# Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (8/18/2022: iFi GO Blu Review Added)



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 18, 2022)

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*Latest Updates*

*8/18/2022

iFi GO Blu *review added *(CLICK HERE FOR FULL REVIEW PAGE)*

*1/10/2022

Koss KPH40 Utility *Review added (*CLICK HERE* to go to review page!)

*8/14/2021

Creative Sound Blaster GC7* Dac/Amp Review Added *(CLICK HERE TO OPEN FULL REVIEW)*. The Creative GC7 link is also on the 3rd post below, where the non-Headphone entries are. Stuff like Dacs, Amps, Mics, etc, go there.

*7/7/2021*

Info on personal Audeze employment. *CLICK HERE *for details on my new line of work, as a representative of Audeze, and how it will affect the guide.


*6/30/2021*

Schiit Fulla 4 added *(CLICK HERE FOR FULL REVIEW)*. The Schiit Fulla 4 link is also on the 3rd post below, where the non-Headphone entries are. Stuff like Dacs, Amps, Mics, etc, go there.

*6/14/2021*

Massdrop X Focal Elex Review added *(CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE)*

*5/20/2021*

Schiit Vali 2+ review added *(CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE)*. Link to the review will also be placed on the 3rd post below on the 1st page of the guide.

*5/4/2021*

Razer Blackshark V2 review added *(CLICK HERE TO OPEN FULL REVIEW PAGE)*

*4/7/2021*

Schiit Hel 2 added *(CLICK HERE FOR FULL REVIEW)*. The Schiit Hel 2 link is also on the 3rd post below, where the non-Headphone entries are. Stuff like Dacs, Amps, Mics, etc, go there.

*3/21/2021*

Drop + Sennheiser 8XX added *(**CLICK HERE FOR FULL REVIEW**)*

*1/26/2021*

Redscape Audio Headtracker And Software Review Added *(**CLICK HERE**)*, IT IS ALSO ON THE THIRD POST BELOW

*12-3-3030*

Audeze Penrose Review Added *(CLICK HERE)*

*10-27-2020*

Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX Full Review Added *(CLICK HERE)*

*9-21-2020*

Sennheiser PC38X Full Review *ADDED (CLICK HERE)

8-7-2020*

*Sennheiser HD6XX Review added (click here for main review with all images)*

*3-10-2020*

Ok guys, so I have made a substantial update...

*Audeze LCD-1 Review* (added update in the build quality/cups section. Minor entry talking about Audeze having fixed the cable entries.)

*Audeze Mobius Review* (added optional *Cryo Pads* entry in the review's accessories section. Please read, it's quite a bit.) I'll likely take some pics of the pads a little later.

*Images* (took me MANY HOURS TO DO THIS). Fixed all the broken image links on the first guide post, and added back many missing images, (though could not add all of them). For the more recent reviews, ALL the images are still in their respective reviews when you click on *"Review First Posted Here"*. The extra images have been removed on the first guide post due to image limits. Also, images for old, irrelevant headphone entries that are either discontinued or impossible to get have been removed. Some still remain, and they will stay up unless I need extra image space in the future.

*2-2-2020*

Drop + THX Panda added (click here for main review WITH ALL IMAGES page)


*12-10-2019*

Schiit Gaming Dac/Amps 'Hel' and 'Fulla 3' added here
(Also added to the 3rd post of this thread, where my other non-headphone reviews are.)

*11-19-2019*

Audeze LCD-1 added

*9-10-2019*

Grado WH1 'The White Headphone' added

*9-3-2019*

Guide Changes *(Additional Sections Moved HERE)*

Due to hitting image limits on the guide, I have separated the guide between the first post, and my second post. The second post will have the sections: Virtual Surround Devices, External Amps, External Microphones, Pad Swapping. You can find the post, *HERE*. Hopefully this will free up some space for the first post to focus on headphones. I may have to do additional tweaking later.

*8-22-2019*

Audeze LCD-GX added



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*ABSOLUTELY NO PRIVATE MESSAGES ASKING ME ABOUT WHAT GAMING HEADPHONES TO GET. PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS ON THE GUIDE. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO THESE MESSAGES*

I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.

The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming: For PC Gaming Audio advice, I highly recommend you guys read this guide, which is written by NamelessPFG, and specializes in the PC related side of gaming audio.
I'd consider it a great extension to my own guide for those who aren't console gamers.

*If you guys want all the LATEST info on upcoming reviews, guides, and any relevant information on all things Mad Lust Envy, check out add me on these links:*

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MadLustEnvy
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And hopefully sooner than later:
Twitch: YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv5zwzyOSEBk7m6u5Y6npkw?feature=watch



​
[/SPOILER]

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*Mad Lust Envy aka. Shin CZ's Gaming Headphone/Headset Guide*


Spoiler: Intro on how I came to start this guide and why.



Before I start, let me get a few things out of the way. Everything I say is PURELY personal opinion. I'm not a professional. I have clearly stated that is is all my opinion, with subjective preferences as well as objective ones. Okay, moving on.

Hello everyone. I wanna make an introduction on my journey into headphone gaming, and pretty much headphones in general. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/141-xbox-area/894251-what-gaming-headphones-buy-61.html#post14261629 (My beginnings as Shin CZ). I myself actually got into this audiophile hobby BECAUSE I fell in love with the sound of the AD700 when I paired it up with my Mixamp. I first started this journey when I looked for a discrete solution for gaming during the night time, where my home theater at the time (Pioneer HTS-G1) was just too much for my roomates and neighbors. Being someone who reads up on the things he buys before making purchases, I read up about how good the A40+Mixamp combo was, and that it would be all I would ever need. It was $250, which was extremely expensive for me at the time (at least I thought such a thing was too expensive back then). I caved in and went for it, as long as it delivered as promised.

Once I got it, I have to say that I was somewhat underwhelmed. I was expecting something that mimicked my surround sound. I wasn't feeling Dolby Headphone in the least. I was so underwhelmed that I barely used it, and decided to just play my games really quietly, which to me hurt, as I like to be immersed, and concentrate quite a bit when I game online. Fast forward to a few months later, where I decided to give it another try. Much to my dismay, my practically brand new A40s (very rarely touched back when I did use it) had lost the right side audio. I was so peeved that I didn't bother contacting Astro. I tossed them... just like that.

So there I was back again, with a seemingly useless Mixamp, and no headset. I went back online and read up on ACTUAL headphones that worked very well with gaming and the Mixamp in general. I, like many of you, heard how grand the AD700s were especially for games like Call of Duty 4, which was my favorite game back in the days I got into this hobby. So what the hell, I went for it. When I got it, I was somewhat turned off by the color, and they didn't exactly sit well on my head. It was slippery as hell, and it just sorta pissed me off. I then did the rubberband mod and then felt it was good enough to try.

I then hooked them up to the Mixamp, and fired up Call of Duty 4... let's just say... my mind was BLOWN. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was hearing EVERYTHING. Sounds were coming from all around me. I could hear exactly where people were around me. A pin drop was easily distinguishable for me. I did notice the distinct lack of bass, but for this game, I couldn't care less. I felt like I had an unfair advantage against those who DIDN'T wear a headset. Bass was the last thing on my mind. My speakers sounded like pure crap next to this ridiculous soundfield I was suddenly enveloped in. Dolby Headphone and Headphones in general showed me what a miraculous combo they could be, and I told myself I would never seriously game without either of them ever again. I had converted. This was just but the first step into this disease called upgraditis.

Since then, I have somewhat gone through seemingly countless amount of headphones, both for gaming, and for music/movies. I knew I'd have to own at least two pairs: One for direct hardcore gaming, where bass was on the lighter side so I could focus on the more important sounds like a grenade pin being released, footsteps, or claymores being placed. The other would be for more, non-competitive gaming where I could enjoy what audio as a whole has to offer. I wanted a nice boost in bass, to feel the explosions. Something to directly contrast the sound of the AD700 but still work well with the Mixamp. I was also a budget headphone hunter. I loved what cheap headphones had to offer: bang for the buck. So I have bought my share of garbage, and gems.

Enough of that, I'm now going to attempt to remember ALL the headphones I have bought and used since the beginning of my journey. One criteria HAD to be met at first: The headphones would have to work well with Dolby Headphone, or they were gonna be returned or sold. It was that simple to me.

Okay, I'm gonna list my share of WORTHY headphones, especially for gaming. By worthy, I mean worthy of being discussed (some may be added to let you know they are NO GOOD for gaming with DH). This list doesn't include headphones I bought/used that were never intended to be used for gaming (for example, my HAS700, ES7, ESW9, though I did try them with meh results, obviously). I couldn't begin to remember them all anyway. Also rating them based on how good they are for 'fun' gaming (anything not taken too seriously, where sound accuracy isn't a huge concern), and competitive gaming (where sound is incredibly important, specifically positional accuracy and ability to pick up the finer details). The scores aren't scientific. It's just MY opinion on how they score from a scale of 1-10 by their own merits, and not how they compare to other scores whether higher or lower, so don't whine about scores, lol.



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*A WORD OF WARNING*

I have something to say to ANY company who has products, or any reviewing company that thinks I can only say positive things.

I will NEVER, EVER go against by what I feel. This means if you send me a product that I think sucks, I WILL tell you it sucks, and I'll even give you the reasons why. I will NEVER brown nose YOU or ANY company you happen to be affiliated with. If you send me a product for IMPRESSIONS or that isn't a FINALIZED form, tell me so, and I will give you my HONEST thoughts so you can make adjustments if you'd like instead of just telling you what you want to hear. If you send me something for review, I'll give a review of the product if I feel it's worth reviewing for my viewers here. If not, I will tell you I didn't like it, and that a review wouldn't be favorable, so I would decline. That way you won't have negative press from me on said product, and you can send me something else I MIGHT see in a favorable light. I, once again would never write about something I don't like. Not in the past so many years, and never again.

Saying something sounds like a mess isn't TRASHING a product. It's me telling you honestly that it sounded like a mess to. Trashing a product would be me publicly denouncing your product in one of my reviews and telling people not to get it because it's crap. At length. Even that would fall under my opinion, but I honestly wouldn't go about doing that nowadays.

If you are ok with this, then please by all means, contact me and I'll likely check out your product. But if you get offended because I didn't like something, then work on yourselves, because the real world isn't all about kissing your arse. You'll get my honest impression or nothing at all. I'd rather write nothing at all than bend to some notion that you can only say good things to keep amicable ties with companies. I don't owe you or anyone around you a damn thing.

If this language is too strong for you, sorry not sorry. I'm not a professional ass kisser. I write reviews for the sake of helping people buying products, not for the company's sake. As I see it, I'm essentially free advertisement when I DO write a review. You'd be surprised how many people I get telling me how I helped them buy a product. I don't get anything but THAT satisfaction, while you companies reap the benefits. So to get upset that I don't like something and said so, boo freaking hoo. Tough.

My two cents. You can quote me on all of this. Don't EVER question my integrity, my bluntness, or WHY I do this. I have no problem defending my beliefs.

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*INDEX*
Use this for quick access to specific products. Click on the entries with links to go to their full review page.

*chicolom's FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

HEADPHONES*

D: $0-$50
Creative Sound Blaster JAM
Koss KPH40 Utility
Koss KSC35 / Sportapro
Koss KSC75
Koss UR40
Philips SHP2500
Sennheiser HD201
Steelseries Siberia V1 (*headset*)
Turtle Beach Z2 (*headset*)
Ultrasone HS-15 (*headset*)

C: $50-$150
Astro A30 (*headset*)
Audio-Technica AD700
Audio-Technica M50
Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")
Creative Aurvana Trio
HiFiMAN RE0 (IEM)
Nuforce HP-800
Razer Blackshark V2
Sennheiser HD280 Pro
Skullcandy SLYR (*headset*)
Sony XB700
Tritton AX720 (*headset*)
Turtle Beach PX21 (*headset*)
Ultrasone HFI-15G

B: $150-$300
AKG K612 Pro
AKG K701 (K702)
AKG Q701
Astro A40 (*headset*)
Astro A50 (*wireless headset*)
Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus / Custom Game (headset variant)
Beyerdynamic DT770 (Pro 80 ohm)
Beyerdynamic DT880 (Premium)
Beyerdynamic DT990 (Premium)
Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen (*headset*)
Beyerdynamic T51i
Creative SXFI Air
Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX
Monster DNA On Ear
Monster DNA Pro
Philips Fidelio X1
Philips Fidelio X2
Sennheiser GAME ONE (*headset*)
Sennheiser HD598
Sennheiser HD6XX
Sennheiser PC360 (*headset*)
Sennheiser PC38X (*headset*)
Skullcandy PLYR 1 (*wireless headset*)
Sony MA900
Tritton AX Pro (true 5.1 *headset*)
Yuin G1A

A: $300+
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition
AKG K712 Pro
Audeze LCD-1
Audeze LCD-2
Audeze LCD-GX
Audeze Mobius
Audeze Penrose
Beyerdynamic T70
Denon D7000
Drop + THX Panda
Drop + Sennheiser 8XX
Fostex TH-600
Grado WH1 'The White Headphone'
HiFiMAN Ananda
HiFiMAN HE-4
HiFiMAN HE-400
Koss ESP-950
Massdrop x Focal Elex
Massdrop x HiFiMAN Edition XX
MrSpeakers Alpha Dog
MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1
MrSpeakers Mad Dog v.3.2
Sennheiser HD650
Shure SRH1540
Shure SRH1840
Stax SR-407
Ultrasone Pro 2900
Ultrasone Pro 900

On my second post on this guide *(CLICK HERE)*, you will find the following sections:

*Virtual Surround Devices and Software*
Astro Mixamp Pro (2013 Edition)
Astro Mixamp Pro (2011 Edition)
Astro Mixamp 5.8
Beyerdynamic Headzone (Base only)
Creative Sound BlasterX G6
Creative Sound Blaster GC7
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB
Creative X7
Redscape Audio Software And Headtracker
Sennheiser GSX 1000 Gaming Audio Amplifier
Tritton AX 720
Turtle Beach DSS (old version)
Victor SU-DH1

*External Amps and DACs*
Fiio E9K (aka E09K)
Fiio E12
iFi Go Blu
Objective O2
Schiit Gaming Dac/Amps 'Hel' and 'Fulla 3'
Schiit Fulla 4
Schiit Hel 2
Schiit Magni
Schiit Vali 2+


*External Microphones*
AntLion ModMic
Labtec LVA7330
Mini Clip-on Microphones (Neweer, HDE, DX models)
V-moda Boom Pro

*Pad Swapping*
Dekoni Audio Pads

*Virtual Surround Devices (devices only, console use)*
(many thanks to forum member ruuku for typing most of this up for the guide)

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*Ratings (outdated, and no longer used)*
10: Legendary
9: Amazing
8. Great
7: Good
6: Fair to Decent
5: Mediocre
0-4: Bad to worthless

I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.[/SPOILER]

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*chicolom's FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions*


Spoiler: FAQ



*Why are Gaming Headsets often said to be inferior to regular headphones?*

In general, headphones (especially "audiophile" or "hi-fi" headphones) tend to have better sound quality than your typical gaming headsets. This is due to a number of reasons, such as: a design more focused on maximizing sound quality instead of maximizing stylish "gaming" looks, an Open Vs. Closed design (most gaming headsets are closed), and simply having more experience at designing headphones than gaming headset companies.

*What about multi-driver "true surround sound" headphones? Aren't they better?*

No. Multi-driver headphones make use of tiny drivers with inferior performance to larger stereo (dual driver) headphones. A better route is a good pair of stereo headphones with a good virtual surround DSP.

*Do I need an amp?*

That depends on your headphone. All headphones will benefit from an amp, but some benefit more. Those are usually higher ohm OR lower sensitivity headphones.

*Will headphone X be a huge improvement for competitive gaming over the AD700?*

Probably not. HD800s or SR009 are probably the very best headphones, but nothing is going to be that much of an improvement for competitive gaming over the AD700s.

You're NOT going to keep getting competitive improvements as you go up in price. The main improvements your going to get are a more immersive sound (fuller weightier sound, better bass). Sometimes a more immersive sound counteracts a competitive focused sound though. Part of the reason the AD700 works so well for soundwhoring is because it sounds bright and bass light (counteracts immersion though).

So if you're looking for the very best headphone for competitive gaming, just get an AD700. Or get an HD800. Everything in between the two will offer improvements to immersion, but not really improvements for simple competitive sound whoring. If you're willing to trade a little competitive ability for a more immersive and enjoyable sound (and a more audiophile headphone that will be better with music), then you should look at more immersive headphones.

*What traits make for a good competitive gaming headphone?*

A non-bassy heavy signature, emphasis on mids and highs to bring out details like footsteps, and a large and accurate sounding soundstage...

*What traits make for a good immersive gaming headphone?*

Dat Bass...

*What's the difference between "Dolby Digital" and "Dolby Headphone"?*

Dolby Digital surround and Dolby Headphone surround are NOT the same thing.

Dolby Digital is a compressed and encoded 5.1 channel signal which can ONLY be passed through optical or HDMI. Dolby Digital is actual surround sound (5.1 channel), NOT virtual surround sound for headphones (2 channel). You can't listen to Dolby Digital with headphones, unless your headphone has multiple drivers. To get virtual surround for your headphones you need to process that 5.1 channel into a 2 channel (stereo) signal that your stereo headphones can actually use. That's where Dolby Headphone comes in.

Dolby Headphone is a virtual surround sound DSP for headphones which takes a Dolby Digital 5.1 channel signal and downmixes and processes into a special 2 channel stereo signal that any headphone can use. Since it's just a 2 channel stereo signal, any 3.5mm jack will output it and it will work with any regular stereo headphone (although some work better than others). Even though it's only a stereo signal, it still sounds like surround sound when used with headphones because the Dolby Headphone DSP adds head related transfer function cues to the signal, which fool the brain into the hearing the same surround sound that was in the original 5.1 signal.

*My PC has optical/toslink out. Will I be able to plug in a device like the Astro Mixamp or Ear Force DSS?*

Maybe. It depends on whether your computer's sound card is capable of encoding games into Dolby Digital and outputting that signal through optical.

*Can I have more than one DAC in the audio chain? Can I "chain" DACs together?*

NO. You only convert the signal from digital to analog ONE time, so the first device in the chain that gives you an analog signal is your DAC and will be the only DAC in the chain.

*Should I get a mixamp if I'm gaming on PC?*

No, probably not. Devices like the Mixamp are mainly recommended for consoles. For PC's a better solution is an internal soundcard.

*What's the difference between Pro Logic II and Dolby Headphone?/What is Pro Logic II?*

Pro Logic II is basically a 2 channel signal upconverted to interpolated mutli-channel surround, while Dolby Headphone is basically multi-channel surround down-converted to 2 channel stereo with virtual surround from added HRTF cues.



*Headphones*​
Tier D $0-50

Creative Sound Blaster JAM





Price as of Feb 2016: $40-$50 range


Spoiler: Review



The Creative Sound Blaster JAM was a personal interest of mine after a long search for something something convenient, comfortable, and budget conscious. Convenient in that it would be wireless, easy to use, and easy to transport. Comfort in that it could be worn all day with little issues, as well as my personal need to have padding that isn't leather of any kind, whether real, synthetic, etc. Budget conscious in that it wouldn't break the $100 cap I placed for budget tier headphones.

The JAM, more or less, met all of these requirements. I was also treated with a great surprise in finding out that the JAM has USB capabilities which, accompanied by the JAM software, allows users to tweak the sound to their preference with a host of presets and other sound options. The JAM feels like owning two headphones instead of one.

*Build Quality*

The JAM is unsurprisingly plastic all over. All matte black with the exception of the cup's exterior center surface area which are glossy black with a printed design on each cup.

From top to bottom:

Starting with the headband, it is as basic as headbands come, with a textured finish on the plastic, and absolutely no padding to speak of. It's hard to add any more about the headband, as it really is as barebones as it comes. Unfortunately, this is a detriment to its overall comfort, which would've greatly benefited from some minor padding.

The headband gives way to thin, but seemingly durable plastic extension arms that don't have notches or markers for size indication, so you'll have to look at a mirror if you absolutely must have both sides at the same length of extension.

On to the cups which each hold a long bar that connects to the extension arms and also identify the headphone as the Creative Sound Blaster JAM. Unfortunately, it keeps the cups from having any sort of swivel or collapsing mechanism, though the headphone is small enough to make this a non-issue for most practical situations.

The right cup houses all the controls:

Power: Pressing down the center for a few seconds turns the JAM on/off.

Pairing: Holding down the center while it's off until the small led flashes will put the JAM into Bluetooth pairing mode.

Volume: The volume up/down buttons are located on the back of the outer cup. They are quite responsive, with the JAM giving an audible beep once volume is maxed out.

Bass: The bass boost button is located towards the front of the cup. The button is easy to press, though there is no indicator or confirmation that the boost is on/off outside of the audible difference when listening to the JAM. The bass boost button has no function when using the JAM in USB mode. I would've liked an audio cue indicating bass boost was on/off.

NFC: The JAM has NFC capabilities, though I wasn't able to test it in time for this review.

Micro USB: On the bottom of the right cup is the micro USB input for charging (and to turn the JAM into a USB headset on PC).

Omnidirectional Microphone: Buried within the right cup is the omnidirectional microphone. Unfortunately, as a console gamer, I was unable to test the microphone/chat capabilities, as the JAM does not pair up with the PS4's bluetooth connectivity, nor does the chat function work connected through USB on PS4.

Last, are the pads which are made of circular foam reminiscent of the Koss KSC-75, Porta Pro pads, and Sennheiser PX-100II, if a bit larger overall. The pads have an extra amount of plushness to it compared to those other headphones, and are therefore a bit more comfortable for longer sessions. Unfortunately, the pads are not removable.

The Creative Soundblaster JAM is not a technical marvel in terms of ruggedness, design, or durability, but on the positive side, its basic aesthetic and matte plastic finish will curb the need to baby it with extra protection. Unless you are a monster that throws things around haphazardly, or loves to bend things the wrong way, I don't see how the JAM could break from normal use. I have tossed the JAM in my bag with wild abandon for months, and I have absolutely no fear of finding the JAM in pieces. It's biggest detriments in build quality are the lack of headband padding, and the lack of swivel/folding mechanisms. One size fits all, for better or worse.

*Accessories*

The JAM is devoid of any actual accessories outside of a very nice micro USB cable for charging and USB headset capabilities. While being robust, with good strain reliefs, it is fairly short at 1 meter, so I'd suggest having a longer USB cable if using the JAM as a USB headset.

*Comfort*

Supra-aural (on ear) headphones have always been a hit or miss endeavor when it comes to comfort. Personally, I find supra-aural designs to be the least diverse in terms of comfort. Most on ear headphones fall either on the very comfortable side, or the hideously uncomfortable side. Thankfully, the JAM sits on the comfortable side of the comfort spectrum.

Starting with weight, the JAM is decidedly on the very light side of things, to the point where I would find myself forgetting I had them on and felt like I was using my venerable Koss clip ons instead. I expected a bit of heft due to the wireless components, but was pleasantly surprised that its wireless aspects didn't become a factor in its overall weight.

The headband is essentially the only real point of discomfort due to a lack of padding. On my shaved head, I can certainly feel the plastic digging into my scalp, which had me searching for a temporary solution; a sock that I cut up and wrapped around the headband at least until a permanent fix presented itself. Once I fixed the headband issue, the JAM lept up closer to extraordinary levels of comfort, though still bested by the Ultrasone 15G's magnificent comfort in headband padding, pad plushness, weight, and overall pleasantries.

The JAM's foam ear pads start off itchy (as usual of foam pads), but after a very brief period of adjusting to the pads, they become extremely comfortable (and no longer itchy). They remain cool for long periods of time, and the subtle plushness keeps the JAM from pinching the ears.

Clamping force is moderate to slightly below moderate, keeping the JAM in place without squeezing the head uncomfortably. This is worthy of noting, as on ear headphones live or die by the level of clamp. Many great on ear headphones have lost the battle of usability due to clamp being too weak or too strong. The JAM hits a sweet spot. Fantastic for a budget headset.

Its second comfort issue after the headband (but far less of an issue) may come from the complete lack of swivel, which may cause the drivers to sit in a bad angle for certain ear shapes, though I personally didn't have any issues as I was able to find a good spot for the drivers to rest on my ears with no discomfort.

The JAM's small form factor and moderately low clamp allows it to be worn around the neck quite comfortably when not in use.

In the end, I found the JAM's comfort factor to be quite high, despite some gripes with the headband overall. Find a solution to the headband, and you're likely to find the JAM to be the best headphone in your repertoire to use for longer sessions.

*Isolation/Leakage*

The JAM's isolation and noise leakage are both fairly average, if slightly above. The foam pads don't exactly keep sound in/out, though the closed back design helps mitigate excess noise. While average, I wouldn't say it's anything remotely bad, and I would still be fine recommending the JAM for all but the strictest isolation/leakage demands. While jamming out to music, it isn't easy to be distracted by outside noise. Leakage fares a little worse than isolation, though I wouldn't expect the sound to travel far from one room to another. I'd have full confidence in using the JAM at night without disturbing anyone in any other room, perhaps even the same room depending on volume.

*Sound*

Bearing in mind that this is a budget, wireless headset, I found myself quite pleased by it's sound in general, despite the technical limitations. I had very little to no expectations on the JAM's overall sound quality. The only expectation I hoped for was for the JAM to function, and not sound like an utter failure. In this regard (and many others), the JAM exceeded my expectation.

Reviewing the JAM's aspects of sound is a bit tricky as it is a headset that basically wants you to tinker with its modes. Bass Boost on the wireless mode, and the USB mode's JAM software Control Panel with its SBX Profiles, as well as various sound enhancements: Surround, Bass Boost, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart Volume, Dialog Plus, and Equalizer.

I'll mainly focus on the Bluetooth/Wireless mode with Bass Boost ON as I assume this will be the mode that vast majority of people will use with the JAM (as well as my main method of use). I'll touch a bit on its other modes as well (wireless with no Bass Boost, and USB SBX Control Panel.)

Note: USB software requires the software to be downloaded directly from Creative at: Click Here

The SBX Control Panel only functions properly while the JAM is OFF and then plugged in via USB. If the JAM is on wireless mode and then plugged in, the software will show all the options but will not affect the wireless mode's sound in any way other than volume, as the software volume is tied to Windows volume mixer.

*Bass*

Quality: Decent (wireless without bass boost, USB mode), Subpar (wireless w/bass boost)
Quantity: Without bass boost - Slightly below neutral, bass boost - neutral lower to mid bass, emphasized upper bass

Without any bass boosting, the JAM is a tad bass deficient in both wireless and USB modes, though not lacking in texture. It's understandable why Creative decided on adding a bass boost option, as a subtle boost is all that would be needed to fill out the sound nicely.

The level of bass varies on a per track basis, where tracks more reliant on bass will sound just shy of bass neutral, and tracks not reliant on bass sounding more bass anemic. Depending on how much bass your source has, you may feel the JAM to sound a bit too thin, or just fine if just a hint in need of some warmth.

Wireless Bass Boost:

As you toggle the bass boost on, the sound signature immediately turns noticeably warmer/ more full. The bass boost seems to affect everything from 40hz up to 300hz, but its main range of effect is at about 80hz-200hz. I personally feel the best area to focus on bass is 30-70hz, which isn't changed much here. Upper mid bass to high bass/lower midrange is noticeably bumped, though the deeper, chest thumping bass is largely unaffected. The result of the bass boost is not so much turning the JAM into a bassy headphone, but rather a fuller, richer one.

The downside of the bass boost is that the bass becomes a bit distorted and noisy/grainy, though I expect most people would take the tradeoff of pure fidelity for an improved sound signature despite those drawbacks.

Even with the added bass and bass distortion, the bass doesn't negatively affect the JAM's overall clarity in the middle to upper ranges. There is some lower mid distortion, but that as far as its effect travels. Whereas many budget headphones sound muted, muffled, and dronish, with boomy bass that impacts the sound as a whole, the JAM remains generally even keeled.

The bass decay is on the snappy side, which I will assume is most likely due to the pad's porous nature. A lack of total seal causes bass to dissipate quickly in other headphones, and I wouldn't doubt it being the same here. A snappy, agile bass is usually reserved for higher end headphones, whereas budget headphone can either be completely bass deficient, or utterly messy and sluggish with muffled bass.

Wired USB mode:

As mentioned before, the bass boost button doesn't work in USB mode (you'll hear a brief sound as if it changed, but the sound is not affected), and you're left with the SBX Control Panel Bass slider, as well as Crystalizer and Equalizer which can affect the bass quantity and quality.

The Bass slider has a frequency crossover at 80hz, which I feel is generally the target area that Creative focused on when using the Bass Boost button in wireless mode, albeit with a much smaller range of effect. The Control Panel's bass slider is subtle at default, though I feel leaving this option off and manually adjusting the Equalizer at lower frequencies is more beneficial in the long run.

The Crystalizer has an effect on both bass and treble ranges the most, and I personally felt the 30% default setting was a very subtle, but beneficial enhancement to the sound. Just a minor change in energetic delivery. Raising this slider alters the sound and severely recessed the midrange and general details. Lowering it makes the effect utterly negligible.

The Equalizer makes a dramatic change for the JAM's bass, particularly altering the 31hz and 62hz sliders make the biggest change. These two sliders affect the main bass areas, and can easily offset the deficiencies the JAM has by default. I also found that adjusting the bass through the equalizer yields better sound quality than the bass boost button with much less distortion and grain.

Final Bass Impressions:

Without alteration, the bass is snappy, if a bit light, and low in volume next to the midrange. It is textured, and warm in tone. Wireless bass boosting trades off the quality for extra quantity and warmth. The bass boosted wirelessly is prone to distort with a bit of grain and fuzz, though I find the JAM much more enjoyable with the bass boost, as it lacks musicality otherwise.

In USB mode, I found the JAM's bass to perform its best, especially dialing the equalizer to my liking ( a 4db extension to 31hz and 3db to 62hz, leaving the rest of the frequencies alone). This more or less offset what I found lacking in the JAM's inherent sound signature,, without the added grain of the wireless mode's bass boost.

You either take the extra freedom of Bluetooth with it's grainy bass, or the tweakable control panel for some richer, more potent, and much clearer bass in USB/wired mode. Either way, I find the JAM's bass more than good enough for my various uses.

*Midrange*

Quality: Good without bass boost, good with bass boost (if a little less refined)
Quantity: Generally neutral forwardness to slightly recessed upper midrange

The JAM's midrange is surprisingly well behaved all the way from the lower mids up to the treble. There are some minor dips and peaks, but nothing garish and ear piercing, which can't be said about some headphones costing 10 times as much. Despite a relative safety in keeping the midrange frequencies from becoming fatiguing, there is no veil or stifling of the frequencies, keeping the JAM energetic and lively.

It's somewhat neutral in tonality throughout the full midrange, with a warm lower midrange when bass boost is on (which is the bass boost's biggest effect.).

In all cases, the midrange is enjoyably in the mix, without any truly terrible hotspots.

The upper midrange has some recession compared to the earlier sections (notable dip at 4khz), but not significantly so.

The decision to maintain the bass slightly south of neutral without bass boost pays off quite well in the midrange, keeping the bass from bleeding into and smothering the midrange. Boosting the bass distorts a bit in the lower midrange, reducing the clarity and quality a bit, but not enough to recommend turning off bass boost. It keeps the JAM musical and engaging; a tradeoff I prefer over sheer technical prowess. A reminder being that the bass boost on the JAM doesn't actually make the JAM bass heavy, but mostly adds richness in the lower midrange, with a more natural presence of bass, as compared to being a bit lean without bass boost.

*Treble*

Quality: Good
Quantity: strongest point at 7khz and 9khz

The JAM's treble, like the midrange is lively, without being too prominent or piercing. At it's worst is the peak at around 7khz on my pair, which is an overstatement, as it's not what I'd consider problematic, so much as identifying it as the strongest point in the JAM's treble range. The prominence at 9khz is far from problematic.

I don't hear any truly horrendous artifacts or ringing that I'd want to single out and address. Creative did a fine job in tuning the treble range overall. No extra ear shattering emphasis, nor excessive smoothing of any frequencies.

The treble range aids the JAM's tactility and impact.

*Soundstage*

The JAM's soundstage is one of its weaker aspects, which I assume is part of the reason why the SBX Control Panel has a surround slider option for it, despite no multi-channel benefit compared to typical SBX Control panels which allow 5.1 or 7.1 to be down mixed to surround for headphones.

In its default state without surround, the soundstage is decidedly closed and pretty much remains inside the head space. Unless I'm gaming in virtual surround, I'm not exactly critical of headphone soundstaging, especially in stereo. As long as stereo separation is good, and keeps details from blurring together, I have little to complain about. The JAM's soundstage is good enough for my simple uses of casual media use outside of gaming.

USB Mode Surround On:

With the SBX Control Panel's Surround Option enabled, the soundstage can vary significantly, at the expense of detail/imaging clarity. The soundstage opens up considerably at 100% Surround, but details become blurred and less defined. For music use, I wholeheartedly recommend leaving Surround OFF, but for other forms of media like TV shows, Youtube videos, and casual gaming, the surround option can greatly benefit immersion. I personally would only either use no surround for music, and maxed out surround for other media, as anything in between is a bit too subtle a change for my tastes.

The surround option is far from how well it works in true surround downmixing found in devices like the Creative X7, Creative Recon USB, Astrogaming Mixamp, and other popular gaming devices that downmix true surround into virtual surround for headphones. That being said, it's still a considerable benefit for the JAM if you absolutely need some space between you and the action.

*Clarity*

The JAM's clarity is at the mercy of the user and its various sound altering options. From the bass boost in it's wireless Bluetooth mode, to the various presets and slider options in the SBX Control Panel when using the JAM in USB mode, the JAM can more or less be slightly tailored to sound how you'd like, if kept within reason and driver abilities.

With absolute no options turned on in either wireless or USB modes, the JAM is a surprisingly competent headphone in terms of clarity at this price level, though at the expense of musicality and low range presence.

Toggling the bass boost in wireless mode will reduce low end clarity with some mild bass distortion, though the general midrange and treble remain about the same as no bass boost.

For being a wireless, budget conscious headset, I was left pleased by its clarity and generally linear tonality by default. It wouldn't be my first choice in terms of headphones I'd choose for clarity and micro detail, but for it's versatility and practicality, I honestly can't fault the JAM. It's more than a competent performer for my needs, and I don't feel Creative made sacrifices in sound just to enhance the JAM's usability.

*Sound Signature*

Tonality: Its raw tonality non-bass boosted tonality is a bit thin, and hint cold after it's warm, lower midrange, though not without a basic grounding of fullness in its impact and delivery. Because of this, I find it difficult to identify the JAM as either slightly warm or not in general. The Bass Boost definitely tilts the tonal balance towards the warm side, however.

Bass: Bass is the JAM's weak point with nearly non-existent sub bass to a meager mid bass section. Engaging the bass boost, immediately fills out a bit of the mid bass, and warms up the upper bass. Sub bass, while still weak, becomes present.

Midrange: The JAM's warm, lower midrange is a bit of an oasis in an otherwise thin, neutral tonal sea. Dry, and bit thin of note otherwise. Without bass boost, nearly the entirety of the midrange is pleasantly neutral to forward, with a bit of recession in the upper midrange (around 4khz). Engaging bass boost fills up the low midrange even moreso, into a more fluid, rich tone, though the emphasis down in the lower midrange causes the central to upper midrange to take a slight step back in its place.

Treble: The treble is well behaved and ever present without becoming screechy or fatiguing. There is a slight recession at the 10khz point, cutting off a potential source of sharpness (and possibly air). The 6-7khz and 9khz range is the JAM's treble points of emphasis in terms of quantity.

Soundstage: Closed, stereo linearity, decent separation

The JAM's sound signature is hard to easily identify due to its intention of being used with various sound options. I feel it can't be judged harshly at it's default state of being rather flat and not very musical, as the JAM comes alive with it's wireless bass boost option, as well as with its full suite of sound features in USB mode.

*Bluetooth/Wireless*

Otherwise known as wireless mode in this review, the JAM's Bluetooth (4.1) capabilities is very good. It's quick to pair and connect, and outside of some random bouts of freezing (where it feels like the audio is repeatedly being paused and then played for a few seconds), the Bluetooth does not drop or disconnect. The freezing issue is random and has nothing to do with the range from the source to the JAM. perhaps a sort of signal interference.

Bluetooth quality is very good, with no perceivable noise or hiss of any kind. The Bass Boost option is its major shortcoming in terms of clarity, as it adds some grain and distortion as the bass is stressed. Not always, but enough to note. Again, it's not bad enough to the point where I'd use the JAM without the Bass Boost engaged. The benefit of its added warmth outweighs the grain in the bass, personally.

The wireless range is quite long and generous, as I was able to listen to the JAM from one end of my house to the other, with some walls in between. No drops whatsoever.

Battery life is rated at 12 hours, and from personal experience, I wouldn't doubt realistic numbers being quite close to that. I've only made a habit of charging every few days just for the sake of it, and not because I felt I was approaching a fully drained battery. It is simply fantastic.

Sound quality is good enough in wireless mode to where I wouldn't have any real reason to change to USB mode, despite it's extra bit of refinement and additional sound options.

Note: For PS4 gamers, the JAM does not work with the PS4's bluetooth connectivity (a common issue with most non-PS4 specific bluetooth devices).

*USB Mode*

To clarify on the JAM's USB mode, it is essentially like turning the JAM into a whole other headset. Using the JAM in USB mode opens up JAM to a host of options in functionality and sound modifications compared to the JAM's wireless mode.

After opening the Sound Blaster JAM software, you're greeted by SBX Profile: Music, Movies, Gaming, each being presets to the software's various sound options which can be accessed by choosing one of the presets and clicking on edit in the top right corner of the window. I recommend choosing any of the three main presets and clicking on edit, to better tailor the sound to fit your needs.

Surround: this mode will reduce clarity and definition of sound effects for an extra sense of space/added stereo soundstage. I suggest leaving this off when listening to music, and using it with media like gaming and movies.

Crystalizer: will enhance the lower and upper ranges for extra dynamics, but will reduce the clarity in the general midrange spectrum. It more or less recesses the midrange the more the slider leans towards 100%. I personally like the effect for the JAM in it's default 30% setting, as it is quite subtle, and benefits musicality.

Bass: will mainly affect the 80hz range, which I feel isn't an ideal area to focus on boosting. This option by default is at 15% and is rather subtle. Instead, I recommend manually adjusting the 31hz and 62hz Equalizer settings if you want to dial in the bass.

Smart Volume: Per Creative, it adjusts the loudness audio automatically to reduce sudden/random volume changes. I personally leave this off.

Dialog Plus: Per Creative, it enhances vocal clarity in movies. Otherwise known as a way to boost the vocal midrange if you're not familiar with equalizing. I'm personally not someone who equalizes anything but the bass (I'll very rarely add if there is too little, reduce if there is too much), so I also leave this option off.

Equalizer: On the top right of the SBX Pro Studio window (with all the previous sound options), is the Equalizer button. Clicking on it opens up the Equalizer, which has various presets (Classical being the only preset with a bass emphasis, and only at the 62hz range).

Here is where I suggest tweaking the bass, instead of using the bass slider in the main Pro Studio window.

Being able to tweak the JAM's sound so heavily is the main benefit of using it in USB mode, outside of a marginal sound quality improvement. You have to decide whether you want to lose the freedom of being wireless for these benefits. I personally prefer to just use the JAM wirelessly, despite the loss of so many options.

*Gaming*

Personally, the JAM isn't an ideal choice for my main gaming simply due to the lack of proper virtual surround. It's strictly limited to stereo, with pseudo surround (expanded stereo), which is a far cry from proper SBX Surround, or DSPs such as Dolby Headphone.

That being said, if it's for casual use, where virtual surround is not feasible or important (such as mobile gaming, or indie games limited to stereo), I have absolutely no issues playing these types of games with the JAM. The JAM satisfies most of my needs in sound quality, from immersion, clarity, and stereo positional accuracy.

*Personal Recommendations*

Casual media (TV shows, podcasts, Youtube, etc.)
Bed/Late night use (great for using while laying down)
Portable use (great for kids/mobile games)
Outside of main/serious listening where I'd choose a more audiophile level headphone, the JAM is a neat little headset that screams versatility. It's a great beater headphone to toss in a bag and take everywhere. The freedom of wireless is a great boon that I feel needs more options today.

*Final Impressions*

For the very low price of admission, you get so much, from such a small package. The sound quality is good for the price, the comfort is fantastic (after finding a fix for the bare headband), the wireless freedom is a right step towards the future.

The JAM isn't a giant killer by any means, but honestly, that's far from necessary. The JAM isn't the most technically proficient, and has a few areas to improve on, but the package overall is well thought out and worthwhile.

Likes, Dislikes, Unfiltered Final Thoughts

Pros:

Comfort
Lightweight
Practicality
Simplicity/easy to use button layout
Versatility
Decent balance in sound, no major harshness, fatigue, or veil
Wireless
Low Price
Cons:

Grainy bass boosting option in wireless mode
Random interference (not a major, frequent issue)
Build quality design could use a few more tweaks, like headband padding and cup swivel.
*Unfiltered Final Thoughts:*

The JAM isn't going to win awards in sound quality, but I can, with confidence say that its sound quality is absolutely on the right side of things, with its good balance and clarity despite some roughness here and there, particularly in its bass boosting.

It works so well for casual use, it has taken over my very beloved Koss clip-ons for those uses. Those who know me well, know how much I love my Koss clip-ons. The JAM is a joy to use with all of its functions and simplicity, I often reach for the JAM over my main headphones. I value practicality, which the JAM has in spades.

It is an easy recommendation for gifting to non-audiophiles as well. Sure to be popular with kids on their mobile devices. For its price range, I honestly recommend everyone giving the JAM a try if they're in need of something for casual use, where ultimate sound quality isn't the top priority. You may be surprised to find that the JAM is a competent, fun headphone.





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*Koss KPH40 Utility*


*$40 as of Jan 2022
Where To Buy: Koss.com, **Amazon.com*

*Click HERE to go to the FULL KPH40 REVIEW page!*



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Koss KSC35 / Sportapro (*clip-on*)

Sells for $45. Sportapro sells for $20-$25



Spoiler: Review




My KSC clip on video on bending the clips for better sound quality)​

Okay, the more mature Koss clip-on that was discontinued and then brought back (only on the Koss website), for a pretty hefty $45. I'd say it's hefty because it honestly should cost just slightly above the KSC75 range, not 3x as much. They sound very similar to the KSC75. However, they are fuller sounding, with fuller bass approaching full-sized type bass, and the mids/vocals are very rich and forward. Treble is also quite neutral for me, not being too smooth, and not too sparkly. I actually am quite fond of their treble. The KSC75's treble is harsher, grainier, and more fatiguing. The mids on the KSC75 are slightly laid back, while the KSC35 presents them up front and more fleshed out. In all honesty, you can say the difference between the KSC75 and KSC35 is like the difference between the K701 and Q701. One is brighter, drier, and thinner sounding, while the other is more natural, and fleshed out.

How do they perform for gaming? Obviously, this is what you'd guys wanna know, and fortunately, they are pretty good performers, just the way the KSC75 is, but just a tad bit better. I played Black Ops for several hours today, and Dolby Headphone truly worked well together with the KSC35. There were sounds that would make me think were outside of the game. Soundstage with DH isn't huge, just like the KSC75, but it's not small either. It felt natural. Directional cues were quite easy to identify, so no complaints. All in all, it's a solid sounding headphone, that does work very well for gaming. Bass was strong but quick due to the open nature of the headphones, but slower than the KSC75. Based on sound alone, I'd say the KSC35 is a headphone you could use for hours without fatigue. Kind of like a smaller, more bassy PC360. Nice tonal balance that I don't think anyone would dislike.

My biggest complaint is the price. I'd put them at $25 at it's highest point. $20 would be perfect. For $45, I don't think I can recommend them since the KSC75 can be found for $15, are are just slightly inferior. However, if money is no object, and you want a great clip-on, the KSC35 is definitely worth the upgrade from the KSC75, and the difference between them with their respective stock clips is significant enough to warrant purchase.

Comfort-wise: compared to the KSC75, the KSC35 is quite noticeably lacking in comfort. The KSC75 has those very comfortable rubberized clips, that once you get used to, it's as if they weren't there. The KSC35 has some hard, slightly sharp plastic clips, that will never truly disappear off your head. At times, they can get bothersome, but with time, they're fine for several hours use.

Now, if you use the KSC75 clips on the KSC35 for comfort, you will lose a bit of SQ, and it will put them very close to KSC75 sound, with just a very slight hint of warmth (literally 90% alike). I'd say that it's worth the minor discomfort to use the stock plastic clips as it boosts SQ maybe 25% better than the KSC75, IMHO.

Update: The Koss Sportapro houses the same drivers as the KSC35, for less than half the price. You can literally buy the Sportapro, snap off the drivers, and snap the KSC75/35 clips onto the Sportapro drivers, and you have a cheaper KSC35. Ideal solution is getting the Sportapro and KSC75, putting the KSC75 clips onto the Sportapro drivers. This will save you $10, give you BOTH the KSC35 and KSC75 as a spare, and give the most comfort, IMHO. Just make sure to bend the KSC75 clips to place the drivers closer to the ears, as stock form may place the drivers too far, losing bass and overall sound quality.



Fun: 7.5/10 (Very Good)
Competitive: 7/10 (Good)
Comfort: 7.5/10 (Very Good), 9.5/10 with KSC75 clips (Amazing), 7/10 w/Sportapro headband (Good)

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Koss KSC75 (*clip-on*)

Sells for $13-$20



Spoiler: Review



Koss KSC75 Unboxing + Mod For Improved Sound Quality
​

It belongs here. Most of you already know what a bang for the buck these are, and I'm more than happy to say that they are pretty good gaming headphones. Directionality is accurate, detail is fantastic for their price, and treble is sparkly and energetic. The bass is also no slouch, assuming you are in a decently quiet atmosphere. The KSC75 is very picky about what is around you, so the quieter the place you're in is, the better they perform. If you want to game on a budget, these should be not be taken lightly. I use them when I wanna relax and lay back, since I don't ever have to worry about them sliding off or out of position. They stay in place no matter what. I love them so much. You couldn't get me to give mine up unless it's for another pair. You get a lot of performance for the price, and everyone should pick some up.

edit (6/2/2012): Just want to add that the way to present sound is considerably different from full-sized headphones. They are like a bridge between IEM and Full-sized cans, in which they don't have a FULL sound that envelops you the way full-size cans do, but they project farther out than IEMs.



Fun: 7/10 (Good)
Competitive: 7/10 (Good)
Comfort: 9.5/10 (Amazing)

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Koss UR40

Sells for $25-30.


Spoiler: Review



Tried two of these... both were so ridiculously bloated and congested in bass, and everything sounded like pure muffled nonsense. Hated EVERYTHING about them. Of course the HD650 fans actually like this thing, so I'll chalk it up to me hating that ridiculously warm/smooth sound. Still, I felt the bass was ridiculously out of proportion, more so than heavy hitters like the XB700. It was giving me headaches. I'm not gonna mod anything. If it doesn't work for me as is, then I'll look elsewhere. They may use the same drivers as the KSC75, but they sound nothing alike. We all should know by know how different a driver sounds depending on housing and other factors.

Comfort-wise: Personally, I couldn't get them to sit right on my head, as they were too short. The net style headband didn't do anything for me either. This one is for small heads.





Spoiler: Fun: 4/10 (Bad)



Give you an extra point for the obscene bass... if that's a good thing...)


Competitive: 4/10 (Bad)
Comfort: 4/10 (Bad)

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Philips SHP2500

Sold for $20 (discontinued?).


Spoiler: Review



Very comfortable, and has a surprising decent sized soundstage for gaming. Not bad AT ALL for gaming with Dolby Headphone. Won't top the KSC75, but if you need isolation when gaming for the least amount of cash, this is a fine choice.

Comfort-wise, they are pretty comfortable, the only issue that even with their velour padding, they quite hot due to a very good seal. No air escapes = sweat galore.



Fun: 6/10 (Decent)
Competitive: 6/10 (Decent)
Comfort: 7/10 (Good)

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Sennheiser HD201

Sells for $20.


Spoiler: Review



Another budget performer. Very well balanced sound signature. Closed headphone with a sense of depth and width. Not terribly exciting, but for $20, these are a pretty good alternative to the Philips SHP2500 when it comes to budget closed cans. Id still say the Philips SHP250 performs a little better with Dolby Headphone and is more comfortable. Still, if comfort isn't a priority, these are very. very good for the price.

Comfort-wise, it's not very comfortable. The pleather is cheap and plasticky, and the seal causes discomfort quite quickly. Like bad pressure to the head. Not as bad as the HD280 pro though.


Fun: 6/10 (Decent)
Competitive: 6/10 (Decent)
Comfort: 4/10 (Bad)

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Steelseries Siberia V1 (*headset*)

Sells for around $35-50 (discontinued).


Spoiler: Review



The sound... hmm... a bit on the veiled side. To be honest, they sounded better with music than they did with gaming. It wasn't even impressive with Dolby Headphone. I wouldn't look at these twice. The Siberia V2 is known to be pretty good, but sadly, I didn't get those because she didn't want pleather pads, so opted for the inferior version with tiny velours and smaller drivers.

Comfort-wise... quite possibly the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. Seriously. The self adjusting headband is just AWESOME. Very light, and very open, so your ears breathe quite a bit. Looks like a budget Sony MDR-F1. The only area they lack in comfort-wise is that the pads are a bit too small to give them a perfect score.


Fun: 5/10 (Mediocre)
Competitive: 5/10 (Mediocre)
Comfort: 9.5/10 (Amazing)

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Turtle Beach Z2 (*headset*)

Sells for around $50.


Spoiler: Review



These come with 50mm drivers, has no inline amp, and is cheaper than the PX21. These MUST be good! Okay, so when I opened the package and attempted to adjust it... the right cup snapped off. Seriously. Just snapped. That goes to show you the kind of quality to expect. I couldn't even test the sound quality properly. Not to be unfair, I asked for a replacement on Amazon, which was shipped to me within 2 days. Knowing the durability issues, I took RIDICULOUSLY special care on not snapping one of the cups off when adjusting them on my head.

The sound: Hmm... not good. Really. it's weak. Now I will tell you why I think that is: the pads. It uses neoprene pads that don't isolate, and don't form any sort of seal. I'd think that some pads that seal properly would probably make the Z2 sound a little better. I'm not a fan of the neoprene pads. They lose the isolation of pleather, and the comfort of velour. Really, no reason why I think neoprene should be used.

If you really want me to tell you how it worked with Dolby Headphone, well... not even remotely good. Lack of soundstage and positional accuracy. Actually, I think it's the very worst I have ever used with Dolby Headphone.

Comfort-wise, don't remember, but as with the PX21, the neoprene pads weren't great.


Fun: 3/10 (Really Bad)
Competitive: 3/10 (Really Bad)
Comfort: N/A

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Ultrasone HS-15 (*headset*)

Discontinued (found on Ebay for $20-$40)
Where To Buy: Ebay


Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I'd like to personally thank forum member and friend calpis for sending me the Ultrasone HS-15. It was unexpected, yet very much welcome.

The Ultrasone HS-15 headset. It is the third Ultrasone I've heard, and sounds completely different from what I have experienced with the Pro 900 and Pro 2900 (which calpis also sent to me at the time of its review). The Ultrasone HS-15 is no longer in production, and is somewhat rare and hard to find outside of the random Ebay listings. There is a semi-open variant without a microphone, the HS-15G which is unfortunately even harder to find and more expensive. I'd like to get my hands on the HS-15G at some point.

HS-15 bullet points found on Amazon:


> *S-Logic natural surround sound moves the sound out of the headphones and into the room around you for a spacious three dimensional sound, as if you are in a live concert
> 
> *Safer listening, less fatigue - pressure to the ear drum is decreased by up to 40% (3-4dB) for the same perceived loudness, significantly reducing the risk of hearing damage
> 
> ...


*Build Quality:*
Rating: Great


The HS-15 has a retro 80's vibe to it's design, with an all black plastic frame, overly lengthy boom microphone (see here), and a cable that looks like it was taken from a home appliance. The HS-15 reminds me of the many cheap no-name headphones found in any store in terms of aesthetics. It's all function over form, substance over style, which fits it's intentions in every way.

The headband is covered in relatively cheap looking, but smooth synthetic leather. It sits perfectly on the head, and you could potentially bend and twist it in any which way without so much as even a minor scare of it breaking.

The circular cups are held by short plastic arms that would allow plenty of extension for my longish head. Update (I forgot to mention this): The HS-15 does not collapse inward or fold flat, so it limits its choices on travel pouches/bags. That being said, the headphone has a relatively small form factor, and should fit plenty of bags, cases, etc.

The foam ear pads are supra aural/on ear, reminiscent of Koss Portapro, and the Sennheiser PX-100, though larger, and considerably softer. The HS-15 pads are thicker and more plush, though you can feel a thinner circular area in the middle (which I'm sure is to not muffle up the sound before it reaches the ears).

The cable itself is incredibly long and (as mentioned earlier), looks like those found on home appliances, like 3 small cables clued together horizontally. Electrostatic headphones share this style of cable as well. The cable terminates into two 3.5mm plugs, one for audio (black), one for the microphone (gray). Strain reliefs appear perfectly functional on both ends.

Overall, while the HS-15 certainly looks cheap, I don't see any structural weaknesses anywhere on it's frame, and the plastic looks like it could take a lot of abuse. You could bend the headband and twist the cups, yet it'd go back to it's normal shape without any issue whatsoever. It's a wonder how headphones this relatively inexpensive can take any abuse short of a nuclear strike, yet headphones costing over 10x the price would crumble under any minor stress. I can safely say that these would suit anyone that needs a beater headset to toss around and abuse without any real consequences.

*Accessories:*
No extra accessories.

*Comfort:*
Rating: Great

The HS-15 is easily THE most comfortable supra aural headphone I have owned to date, outside of the Koss/Yuin clip ons (which may be on ear, but as clip ons, don't sit on the ear the same way as headphones with headbands), and Ultrasone's own 15G (which build-wise is an open, non-headset version of the HS-15).

The HS-15 is incredibly lightweight, and rests on the ears just enough to not be loose, but tight enough to stay secure. The only issue I have is that my right ear gets sore after a prolonged session, though that may be a personal sensitivity issue, as I get no discomfort on my left ear. I have to assume that if others have less sensitive ears, the HS-15 may be near perfection in comfort for them.

Again, these are arguably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn outside of the Koss KSC75 and Yuin G1A. I'd argue that the Sony MA900 may beat it solely due to the fact that it (mostly) rests around the ears, though with it's larger frame and my inability to relax and lay down with them in the same way as the HS-15, I would honestly reach for the HS-15 over the MA900 more times than not if I were basing everything off comfort. I'm positive that some who didn't find the MA900 to be comfortable, would think otherwise of the HS-15.

Long story short, if you want excellent comfort, it simply doesn't get much better than this for an on ear headphone.

*Design Issues:

Microphone:*


The boom microphone is massive, and isn't as flexible/malleable as others I have owned/tested. It easily reaches the front of my mouth, and is almost always present in my peripheral vision. The only solution is to bend the microphone a bit away from the face, and even then, it's not elegant.

*Microphone plug:*


The plug is single pole, and doesn't exactly plug into inputs quite right. If you connect it into an input completely, you won't get any audio. The solution is to connect it partially until you get chat audio. This is a problem I have encountered with all my chat inputs, whether on my mixamp, computer, or my Mixamp female 'Y' splitter cable for audio/chat.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Fair

While it's closed back, the pads allow sound to leak in and out, so it's not one of the better closed backed headphones I have used for noise control. Not as bad a fully open headphone, but it's not going to contain it's own sound all that well.

*Microphone:*
Rating: Good

From the brief testing I have done with the microphone, everything was heard relatively well. The only problem with the mic is that it has it's own plug, so something like a PC Y audio splitter (those that have an audio and microphone input and convert it into one plug) will be needed for most new devices that have only one input for both audio and chat. The problem here is that for some reason, the microphone plug won't pick up any audio unless I partially plug it into my devices. Perhaps someone can send me a message as to why this older looking gray plug works this way, or if this is just an issue with the HS-15.

*Sound:*
Rating: Decent

The HS-15 is undeniably on the warm, bassy side. It is overall a quite non-fatiguing, and relaxing sound signature, with a spike in treble for some upper range clarity, though not so much as to aid much in airiness, clarity, and detail retrieval. The mellow tone of the HS-15 is unlike what I would expect of Ultrasone, since from my experience, Ultrasones are known for their aggressive, bright, and forward sound which is the opposite of the HS-15's sound. One thing that the HS-15 shares with the other Ultrasones I have reviewed is that it yields excellent low end control despite its emphasis.

S-Logic to me is a hit or miss. The pros are that it expands the soundstage and works well with virtual surround. The downside is that it makes music sound slightly distant, and is akin to a full tonal recession. It also makes ear pad placement on the ear alter the sound quite noticeably, so it has to be placed perfectly to get the best possible sound.

The bullet point stating lower decibel output for equal clarity is somewhat true. The volume level is considerably lower than other headphones, and I find a need to use an amp for most occasions, as the HS-15 sounds distant and muted overall. To contradict it's intention, I find the HS-15 to sound it's best when played moderately high in volume, which aids in clarity and detail, which isn't hampered much by its bass due to the excellent control.

Let me clarify with some specifics...

*Bass:*
Rating: Great

If one thing can be said of the HS-15, is that it handles bass very well. This is a budget priced headphone that I have no shame in saying would outdo many headphones in bass control at any price range. The bass is strong and commanding, textured, and expertly controlled. Due to its emphasis, it may take some of the spotlight away from the HS-15's other frequencies, though it's more a problem of it being strong on emphasis, and not because the HS-15 lacks control or speed. The HS-15 is ideal for bassy music without any of the upper range fatigue.

The one downside I find is that some male vocals and instruments that hit in the lower depths of sound tend to sound artificially strong and boomy.

*Mids:*
Rating: Fair

The mids (due to S-Logic and the strong emphasis of bass) sound a bit distant/spaced further back in the mix than I'd personally like. I'm fine with mid recession as long as it's not too distant, and the HS-15 walks a fine line between being fair to being mediocre.

The upside is that due to the great control of bass, the mids aren't swallowed up or masked in general. Just...pushed back.

*Treble:*
Rating: Decent

There are a few areas that sound peaky, sizzly, and artificial. Thankfully, the ranges seem to be short, as the treble is generally smooth for long-term listening sessions. The detail in the treble isn't the final word on transparency or clarity, so if you're looking to analyze details and want lots of air, the HS-15 isn't a strong contender in that regard.

If you want a headphone you can listen to for hours, upon hours, and don't mind the warm, smooth presentation, the HS-15's treble range will more often than not please you.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Good

For stereo/music, I find the HS-15's soundstage to be decent for a closed headphone, partly in thanks to the S-Logic. The instrument separation is very good within the head space, though it doesn't image as well as some of my favorite soundstage proficient headphones.

In virtual surround, S-Logic once again proves itself valuable, as the HS-15 throws off a nice soundstage despite it being a closed headphone, with decent depth, and tight, well defined sound placement.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Very Good

The HS-15's good soundstage especially in virtual surround paired up with sharp sound placement is quite beneficial to it's very good positional cues. It easily bests my Astro A30s and DNA On Ear in pinpoint accuracy, despite it's warmer, more bass driven sound and smooth tonality. While it certainly wouldn't be a top recommendation for competitive gaming due to the bassy and warm tonality, the HS-15 can stand it's own feet if you decide to use it for hardcore gaming.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Mediocre to Fair

The HS-15 is slightly muted and distant sounding alongside it's bass emphasis, so don't expect proficiency in clarity and detail. The warm, non-fatiguing tonality sacrifices clarity and detail, with the exception of some treble ranges which shimmer and peak above the softness of the HS-15's general sound.

As stated before, the HS-15 favors moderately high volume levels to bring out some of the detail that at low volumes can come off non-descript and veiled.

*Amping:*
Recommended

The HS-15 was designed with a lower volume output supposedly for equal clarity. I'd say they partially succeeded as it does make it harder to drive to satisfying volume levels. The clarity is 'equal' as stated, though I'd joke that it's more or less equally lacking.

For music, you will want at least a portable amp on the neutral to bright side to bring out more of the detail.

Personal Recommendation?

Movies, Music, In General? Maybe
Gaming? Maybe
As long as you understand it's limits, and I assure you it's not without flaws, you will be pleased by it's warm, smooth nature, and amazing comfort, which makes the HS-15 decent for all around listening, with good immersion for fun gaming, or bass driven music.

Despite it's less than stellar technicalities, I could see myself reaching for these more than many other headphones due to it's comfort and inoffensive nature.

*Final Impressions:*

Sound quality on the HS-15 isn't amazing overall, so if you're looking for something to be impressed by, the HS-15 will leave you longing for something objectively clearer. However, if you are looking for a beater headphone that you can wear all day, and can jam out to without over analyzing it's details, the HS-15 is a great headphone. It presents a good value at it's low street price, with excellent control of its bass and nearly perfect comfort.

While the review may sound a bit on the negative side, I have to say that the HS-15 is enjoyable and pleasing to use, enough for me to forgive its shortcomings and mark it as a decent headphone. I would simply reach for the HS-15 over many headphones mainly due to comfort and pleasing sound.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5/10 (Good)



The strong, yet well controlled bass, paired up with the very good positional cues, makes for a pretty fun and immersive headphone.





Spoiler: Competitive: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



While the HS-15 offers very good positional cues, it's mellow and distant sound won't hold up next to headphones more detailed, forward, and clearer. It is still quite decent for competitive gaming, with sharp positional accuracy and a good sense of space in virtual surround, just don't expect soundwhoring goodness. I'd wager that a good EQ of the mids and treble would make the HS-15 a very good competitive gaming headphone for a budget price.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8/10 (Great)



Regardless of whether any other headphone is on ear or over ear, there simply isn't much out there that is as comfortable as the HS-15, though after some time, your ears may get sore.





Spoiler: Overall: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



The HS-15 makes a good backup headset, and a good, relaxing headphone due to it's warm tonality and top tier comfort.




Tier C: $50-150

Astro A30 (*headset*)
Discontinued



Spoiler: Review



The Astro A30. Astrogaming's original and still current on-ear gaming headset, released after the well known Astro A40, and aimed at gamers with a need for portability and versatility which the A40s can't provide. I was able to score the A30s for a ridiculously good deal with the Mixamp Pro (2011 version).

How does the bite size Astro headset compared to the older, immensely popular, and higher priced A40 and A50? Let's find out.

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Great

The A30's frame consists of mainly plastic, which feels a little cheap and less prestigious than the tank-like frames of the A40 and A50s. However, the A30's plastic is flexible and feels like it'd take much abuse with nary a complaint.

The top headband portion is matte plastic, and houses ample cloth padding on the underside on headband. While the padding is thick and springy, I personally feel it puts some annoying pressure on the top of the head. I personally feel the padding could've been spread across the entire top headband piece with less thickness and yield better results in comfort and pressure distribution.

The frame on the cup side is covered in a glossy finish, which is quite the contrast compared to the headband. Not sure why Astro decided on a clashing finish to the plastic. The outer cups sport removable speaker tags, reminiscent of the A40s. Unfortunately, removing the speaker tags expose something disappointing: the A30s are closed back regardless whether the speaker tags are on or not, which is a change from the A40s. I personally like to keep the speaker tags off, as it reduces the weight by a subtle amount (I stress the word subtle). No other benefits are gained from what I could tell.

The cups are supra aural and square in shape, including the cloth ear pads which seem to have memory foam inside. Considering the overabundance of synthetic leather pads, the cloth pads are welcome, though the square shape doesn't allow the pads to sit as well as I'd like on the ear compared to traditional round-shaped ear pads. That, and the memory foam traps some heat compared to cloth pads without memory foam.

The cups swivel inward for a flat profile when placing the around your neck, with the outer cup facing outwards. I much prefer just an inward swivel like the A30 over having a fully collapsible design which may lead to more portability at the expense of more potential breaking points.

Located on the bottom of the left cup is a silver barrel that holds the cable as well as small 2.5mm input for the removable boom microphone. The cable itself is non-removable and extremely short as it simply holds the inline mic (an alternative to the boom mic), as well as the mic/mute switch, and A/B selector switch which lets you choose between A (boom mic) and B (in line mic). The cable terminates into both a 3.5mm stereo plug as well as a 2.5mm chat plug placed side by side. There is enough distance between the two plugs to attach a 3.5mm coupler or 3.5mm extension cable if you choose to use some other cable, though it will block you from using the chat plug.

The included cable (referred to as the 'Mobile QD Cable') connects to the dual plugs on the headphone end with a pair of inputs on the control 'puck', one 2.5mm (for the mic) and the 3.5mm for audio. This end is where the 'Call / Pick up / Track Control Button' is placed for Iphone/mobile phone use. The cable is of good quality, though a bit short in length. Thankfully, an extension cable is included, which fortunately retains the mic channel.

All in all, the A30 may feel like cheap plastic overall, but it looks like it can take a ton of abuse. You would really have to commit to the act of mutilating the A30s for them to break. Under normal circumstances, these look like they'll last a lifetime.

*Accessories:*

I can't exactly say what comes with the A30 alone as I bought it in a bundle with the Mixamp Pro (2011 version). Depending on whether you buy the A30s alone or in a bundle, you may/may not get some of these accessories:

Boom Mic: Detachable and connects to the headphone via a 2.5mm plug. It bends, but doesn't give in easily, and doesn't retain memory all too well. You'll more than likely have to readjust the boom mic every time you attach it to the A30s.

Speaker Tags: Attaches to the cups via 4 small magnets on the corners of the tags. They are customizable (other designs can be purchased on the Astrogaming website).

Mobile QD Cable: The main cable used.

Extender Cable: 1 meter extension cable for the mobile QD cable (will more than likely work for any 3.5mm terminated cable that has both audio and chat channels, which should be most headsets that don't separate the chat and regular audio into two separate plugs.)

PC Splitter cable: Separates the audio/mic channels into two plugs. I personally did not receive this cable in my package, though the quick start guide includes it in the image.

My suspicions for Mixamp related goodies:

Optical cable
Mini usb cable
XBOX cable
3.5mm cable
*Comfort:*
Rating: Very Good

The Astro A30s are about as good as any on-ear headphone I've used to date in terms of comfort (with the exception of the Ultrasone HS-15, which is quite a bit more comfortable than any other on-ear I've owned). The A30s are lightweight, clamp just enough for a secure fit, and the cloth covered memory foam pads sit on the ears comfortably, though the shape of the pads make it a little harder to position properly on the ear.

The only gripes I have with the A30's comfort is the headband padding which puts some pressure on the top of the scalp, despite how well padded it is. Also, the ear pads can build up heat, though not as much as typical synthetic leather pads.

*Design Issues:*

Headband padding - Could stand to have been wider for better distribution of weight. The pad pushes down on the top of your head which can get a little uncomfortable.

Square ear pads - Not really an issue, but round shaped ear pads would be easier to adjust and position on the ears.

Permanently attached and incredibly short cable with inline mic and mic/mute switch - The design seems cumbersome. This could've easily been remedied by just having two detachable cables: One with the the mic and switches, and another standard cable.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Decent

It's passable for a closed headset. It doesn't leak in or out a ton, but it doesn't work all that well either way. If you're using the A30s next to someone sleeping, you're sure to bother them, and in loud rooms, they won't block out outside noise as much as I'd hope.

*Microphone:*
Rating: Decent

The A30 comes with both a removable boom mic as well as a cable with an inline mic. I found both microphones to perform decently in personal tests. In other tests with a good friend of mine, I was told the boom mic came out clearly though came off a bit bright and artificial sounding. The inline mic sounded more natural to him at the expense of a little vocal clarity. He preferred I'd use the inline mic, due to the brightness and artificial tone of the boom mic. To compare, I was told that the V-moda BoomPro microphone blew both of the A30's mics out of the water.

*Sound:*
Rating: Fair

A bit thin, lacking in definition, clarity, and dimensionality. The positive aspect of it's sound is it's bass, which while a little lacking in control, is lively and quite enjoyable for music. The A30 performs at it's best for energetic, bassy music from my experience which highlight the bass and treble more so than the details in the mids. Let me explain a bit further below...

*Bass:*
Rating: Decent

On one hand, the A30's bass is not what I consider heavily emphasized, but on the other hand, it's rumbly, a bit loose, yet still on the dry side. It may lack control, speed, and quick decay, and can at times, creep up and rob some of the mid's clarity and presence. The A30 is a dry, somewhat thin sounding headphone which doesn't quite match up with it's rumbly bass. That type of bass doesn't usually associate itself with thin sounding headphones. When music gets busy with a lot of bass, the A30s can distort and scramble up the bass with other details. I have to say, despite it's flaws, it's still the best part of the A30s for me. The bass is enjoyable even if it doesn't maintain control like other headphones with this level of bass prominence.

*Mids:*
Rating: Fair

The mids are dry, thin and a bit diffused sounding which gives way to the somewhat peaky treble. I have to say it's a bit disappointing, as it comes off a bit stunted and lacking in definition, sharpness and clarity.

Dolby Headphone tends to add some warmth and smoothness to the presentation of any and every headphones, and in the case of the A30s, robs it even more of it's clarity (or lack thereof). This is but one reason why I don't find the A30s to match up well with Dolby Headphone, which is the surround processor the Mixamp uses, and is typically bundled with the A30s.

*Treble:*
Rating: Decent

The treble is another aspect of the A30s that I somewhat like, though at times becomes harsh/sibilant and distorts at higher volumes. It sparkles on a frequent basis lending some air to the presentation. The treble comes out as the cleanest area in the frequency response. It matches up more with the bass than the mids.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Mediocre

The A30s soundstage comes off very flat and lacking in dimension, depth, and width. This is without a doubt the most disappointing aspect of it's sound to me. As usual, I don't find much to complain about in stereo, as most headphones sound a bit two dimensional/linear to me, with most sounds placed in a straight line between my ears. The problem with the A30s is that the imaging mostly comes off as 3 different points in and between the head: the left, center, right. The transition between the left/center/right seem imprecise to my ears with some gaps in between those extremes. Using virtual surround didn't help matters much. The soundstage remained fairly linear with a notable lack of depth. A lack of depth doesn't translate well for positional cues.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Mediocre

The soundstage and imprecise imaging did not benefit greatly from virtual surround, making positional cues a bit hard to locate. I found the A30s to be one of the hardest headphones to use for gaming, as front positional cues and rear cues were not easy to discern, and linear soundstage choked any potential possible out of the A30s for competitive gaming.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Fair

The slow bass, hazy mids, distorted at times treble, and non-dimensional soundstage, robbed any hopes of great clarity out of the A30s. It's not muffled sounding for music (really, the A30s can be quite enjoyable for the right kind of music). It can come off a bit energetic in the bass and treble, but as far as minute details and gaming friendliness, the A30s fall short.

*Amping:*
Not necessary

*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Small Maybe
Gaming? No
Though I try to find the good aspects of any headphone/headset I review, the Astro A30 is a headphone I find hard to recommend. The only way I'd ever recommend getting the Astro A30 is if you find the A30/Mixamp bundle for a really good deal (at the time of purchase, I got my combo for $80 which is $120 off the standard price. The Mixamp alone is worth getting for that price, so I considered the A30s as a free bonus).

*Final Impressions:*

I wanted to like the A30s, and give it a somewhat positive review. Really. Yet, reality proved that some headphones just don't stack up to the competition, the A30s being a forgettable headset that should be passed on by most people other than those who can score them for a very low price.





Spoiler: Fun: 6/10 (Decent)



While the bass is pretty enjoyable, the lack of dimensionality and generally lackluster sound make the A30s a bit hard to enjoy for anything other than some bassy music genres, like Trap.





Spoiler: Competitive: 5/10 (Mediocre)



The lack of depth and subpar positional cues really disappointed me. If you're interested in the A30s, focus on stereo/media use, and less on competitive gaming.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.25/10 (Good)



One of the best on ear headphones in terms of comfort. On ear headphones will generally lose some points compared to circumaural headphones, due to the constant pressure on the ears. However, the A30s can be worn for hours on end, and the cloth padding is a much needed contrast to the copious amount of synthetic leather padded headphones in the market. If the headband padding were a little more comfortable and if the ear pads were round in shape, the comfort could've been great.





Spoiler: Overall: 5.75/10 (Okay)



My recommendation: Only get the A30s only if you buy it in a Mixamp bundle for a very good deal. Otherwise, look elsewhere.



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Audio-Technica AD700

Update: Discontinued. The updated model is the AD700x, which I have heard from some trusted members to sound near identical to the original AD700, with worse build quality.


Spoiler: Review



Spectacular for FPS games. Great detail in the mids and energetic treble. Soundstage is the biggest of any headphone I have heard in Dolby Headphone mode (including the K701). Everything sounds just so crystal clear and sparkly. Directional accuracy is just bloody fantastic (2nd only to the DT770 Pro 80s for me). If you want a headphone that just murders practically everything else for FPS games, the AD700s is that headphone. They are really bass light. That is their biggest issue. Bass is so light, it sounds like a tin can attempting to sound like a subwoofer. Just no bass, lol. So for immersive, non-competitive gaming, these aren't going to impress. The treble can also be quite grating and harsh. They also sound somewhat artificial, so don't expect accurate and realistic sounds coming from this headphone.

Comfort-wise, the pads are super comfortable, but the cans are way too loose for some people, and your ears may touch the drivers which a shock prone person like me couldn't handle anymore.





Spoiler: Fun: 5.75/10 (Fair)



The soundstage is it's own brand of fun, but soundstage and clarity aside, they're not going to wow you.





Spoiler: Competitive: 10/10 (Legendary)



The AD700 ditches warmth, bass, and musicality for sheer performance and detail-whoring.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6/10 (Decent)



Great feeling pads, though drivers press against the ears due to a lack of density and thickness in the pads. Slippery fit, due to a very severe lack of clamp and security on the head. 3d wing headband design that I personally can't stand. The comfort on the AD700 is love it or hate it.



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----------

Audio-Technica M50

Update: I feel that because the M50s are one of my fave headphones, they deserve a bit more in the listing.
Sells for $120 (more or less).


Spoiler: Review



This review is for the older ATH-M50 models which have been replaced for the M50X, which the M50x is known to be better sounding with less of a treble peak, and a warmer, fuller sound. I recommend going for the M50x (not reviewed here) instead of the older M50.

Bass: The M50's bass is emphasized, but not by a lot. It's well balanced, slightly favoring bass over mids. The bass can go pretty low, and has a good thump to it, without it being flabby. Bassheads won't appreciate the quantity, however, the M50s can handle bass boosting like a champ.

Mids: The mids are ever so slightly recessed due to slightly more prominent bass and treble. However, the mids aren't THAT recessed, and is well in line with the rest of the sound.

Treble: the treble is emphasized, energetic, and sparkly, They can get harsh, but it's nothing too worrisome, compared to other headphones on the list. The M50's treble gives you a crisp sound overall.

Comfort-wise, the M50 is the most comfortable pleather-padded headphone I have ever owned. You have to do the stretch mod, but once that is done, they are just godly in comfort.

edit: HERE is my thread with how to do the stretch mod.

As far as isolation goes, the M50's do extremely well keeping sounds from leaking out, and a great job isolating from the outside.

Gaming: the M50s don't do very well with Dolby headphone. Their issue is their soundstage, which sound congested and doesn't give you a big enough virtual space to let Dolby headphone work it's magic. I feel that even the Hifiman RE0s (the IEMs) do it better. I'd say if you want a good headphone for plain stereo gaming (like say with a Vita, DS, phones, etc), the M50s will be just fine. Just don't take them seriously for console/PC gaming.





Spoiler: Fun: 7/10 (Good)



Nicely balanced with a good emphasis on bass.





Spoiler



Competitive: 5.5/10 (Fair)] Small soundstage depth and width really hurts positional cues for competitive play.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8.75/10 (Excellent)



After the stretch mod, the M50s are absolutely stellar in comfort, even with it's pleather pads.



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Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")

Sells for $100 (or less).


Spoiler: Revised Review added on 8/17/2013)



Creative and Fostex partnered up to give us the relatively inexpensive Creative Aurvana Live. It shares most of it's design with the discontinued Denon D1001, with the same bio cellulose drivers, and very few, superficial differences. From what I have personally read, the Creative Aurvana Live has been known to be the slightly superior of the two sonically, made even better at the fact that the CAL was the less expensive of the two, and is still sold today. The CAL can be considered as the baby sibling of the incredibly popular and discontinued Denon D2000, D5000, D7000 headphones, all which came with bio-cellulose Fostex drivers.

*Build Quality:*

The CAL is known as a small circumaural. Not as small as typical on ear headphones, but not as large as most full sized headphones. The CAL is incredibly lightweight. It has a classy piano black, glossy finish on the plastic cups with chrome accents, the only thing on the cups being Creative branding. The headband has both metal and plastic pieces, relatively thin as well. The headband padding is covered in some smooth but quality, synthetic leather.

The pads are also made up of synthetic leather/pleather, and are quite soft. The pads are on the small side for a circumaural headphone, with a lack of width and depth for bigger ears.

The CAL's cable is personally what I find to be it's worst aspect in terms of build quality. Each cup houses a thin, somewhat flimsy cable which meet just over a foot down the cable's length. The cable is quite short, terminating into a small 3.5mm plug. Good thing the CAL comes with an extension cable. The cables are rubbery and will 'grip' onto everything, which I personally find quite annoying.

*Comfort:*

The Creative Aurvana Live! is a rarity for me in terms of comfort. I tend to hate headphones with pleather pads, especially closed headphones. I personally find the CAL to be quite comfortable. It is odd, as not only is it pleather padded (very soft pads), but the pads aren't wide or deep, so my ears press up against the drivers and the inner walls of the pads. This is usually disastrous for a headphone's long-term wearing comfort, yet, I don't find the CAL to be problematic. Perhaps it's due to how light the CAL is, and how the CAL doesn't exactly exert a lot of clamping pressure. That being said, I do know that a lot of people have issues with these very things, so keep that in mind.

*Design Issues:*

As stated earlier, the pads are neither deep nor wide, so larger ears may find their ears pressing against the drivers.

*Accessories:*

The CAL comes with a small, cloth carrying pouch, an extension cable, and a gold-plated 6.3mm adapter. The carrying pouch won't offer any real protection from anything other than scratches/scuffs.

*Isolation/Leakage:*

The CAL is exactly like the other Fostex/Denon 'marriage' headphones. They do not isolate that well for a closed headphone. They DO keep from leaking internal noise out to the world quite well, but aren't the best at keeping external noise from leaking in. Better than an open headphone, but far from the best at external noise control. Long story short, if you want a headphone that keeps noise OUT, the CAL is not it. However, if you want a late night headphone that won't bother other people around you (i.e. the sleeping girlfriend), the CAL is quite proficient in noise leak.

*Sound:*

The Creative Aurvana Live is a wonderful sounding headphone. It's relatively warm, spacious, and detailed. It has a fantastic balance of bass, mids, and treble, not usually found in their price range. It's not a neutral headphone, but for a sub-$100 headphone, it's clearly one of the best headphones I've ever heard, if not THE best. Fostex knows their headphones. The CAL is warm, bassy (not overly so), with smooth mids, and detailed treble, without being overbearing. Mostly organic, and natural sounding, with few caveats.

*Bass:*

The CAL's bass is warm, full, rich, organic, and soft hitting. Not particularly quick, but well integrated with the mids, giving the CAL it's deliciously warm tonality. It's emphasized, but never truly overbearing. One of the best I've heard in terms of ambience, emphasis, and integration.

*Mids:*

The CAL has organic, fluid mids. Not incredibly rich or forward, but very well behaved, balanced, and again, expertly integrated. It in all honesty, the CAL puts some of the more expensive headphones to shame. Bassy headphones tend to ruin mids in some form or another. Not so with the CAL. If you like a good amount of bass, and don't want to sacrifice vocals, the CAL makes a wonderful headphone for those purposes. The only real negative aspect to the mids is that the upper mids/lower treble may at times come off just a little thin. Not recessed or lacking, but not as organic and natural.

*Treble:*

The treble is probably the weakest aspect of the CAL's sound. Note: I said WEAKEST. Not that it was bad in general. The treble has nice amount of presence and energy. Not particularly aggressive or sharp. It has a good mix of smoothness and sparkle. The lower treble may have just a hint of glare, but it's rarely ever problematic.

*Soundstage:*

In true Fostex fashion, the CAL has a truly impressive soundstage. It is a closed headphone, yet instrument separation and a virtual sense of space this big is just unheard of in most closed headphones, regardless of price range. Sure, it's not going to trump the well known open soundstages of headphones like the DT990, K70x, and X1, but even next to those, the CAL's soundstage will still impress. Not the deepest, or widest, but very good all around.

*Positioning:*

The CAL has very good positional cues. Positional cues are very well defined, with plenty of virtual space to maneuver. Among the best closed headphones in this regard.

*Clarity:*

The CAL's clarity if quite impressive, especially considering the price. Despite the CAL leaning on musicality and not neutrality, the warm, bassy nature of the CAL does not detract from it's well presented mids and good treble range. Nothing is ever truly lost, making the CAL a solid gaming headphone if you want clarity without sacrificing musicality and overall enjoyment for the sake of sound-whoring.

*Amping:*

The Creative Aurvana Live! is an efficient headphone, demanding minimal amping. It benefits more from a clean source, and not so much power. Mixamp owners will have no problem using the Mixamp alone to power the CAL.

*Value:*

At under $100, the Creative Aurvana Live is what I consider to be the epitome of bang for buck headphones. I have compared it directly to other, considerably more expensive headphones, and personally found the CAL to either meet or exceed their performance. If you want an inexpensive, efficient, and fantastic sounding headphone, the CAL is practically begging for your money.

*Final Impressions:*

The Creative Aurvana Live! is a not so hidden gem in the headphone community. The secret came out years ago, and with good reason. Fantastic warm tonality, good bass presence, fluid mids, with a truly spacious soundstage, all for an incredibly affordable price. Then one true drawback on the CAL may be that it's comfort level may be good for some, not for others. I believe it's truly worth checking out.





Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



Full, warm, immersive, and entertaining.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7.25/10 (Good)



Even for a warm and slightly reserved sound signature, the soundstage and positional cues are good for competitive play.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8 (Great)



Even for a small circumaural, I find them to be very comfortable, with the only negatives being that the pads are shallow and small and may crush other's ears. I didn't have issues with it though.



----------
----------

*Creative Aurvana Trio*




$149.99 MSRP (as of Oct 2018)
Where to buy:  *Creative, Amazon*

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW*



----------
----------

HiFiMAN RE0 (IEM)



Spoiler: Review



Can an IEM truly be good for gaming with Dolby Headphone? Astrogaming just released the A*Stars to use with the Mixamps, so they believe so. My experiences with the highly regarded HiFIMAN RE0s leads me to believe the same. The sound signature is like a VERY neutral to slightly bright sound, lacking a little in bass, but being incredibly analytical. That to me, sounds like a perfect headphone to test for hardcore gaming. Being an IEM, the RE0 doesn't have any worthy soundstage depth and width to speak of even with Dolby Headphone. Everything sounds pretty much close to you. What they DO however, is accurately pinpoint which direction sounds are coming from, and pick up all the detail you could possibly want for gaming. No one will be sneaking up on you with the RE0s on. Still, you will be missing the soundstage, which helps in immersion. Still, when it comes to IEMs, this is a fantastic one to use.

Comfort-wise, I'm not a huge IEM fan, and these weren't notably superior or inferior to any other IEM in comfort. The stock tips weren't great, and they would constantly fall out of my ears. I much prefer the JVC Marshmallow's tips for comfort, but not sure what they'd do to the sound, as I didn't own them at the same time.





Spoiler: Fun: 5/10 (Mediocre)



The RE0 is pretty analytical/sterile and not exactly engaging.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



Despite it being an IEM with very small soundstage, the clarity is absolutely top notch, making details pop out very easily. Positional cues don't have a lot of depth to do their work as well as they should, but they are easy to pinpoint which direction they originated from.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6/10 (Decent)



IEMs don't do much for me in terms of comfort.



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----------

Nuforce HP-800




Sells for $129


Spoiler: Review



I'd like to thank Wolfgang, NuForce's social marketing specialist for contacting me, and giving me the opportunity to test and review the Nuforce HP-800. Very much appreciated.

Okay, so the Nuforce HP-800. Prior to Nuforce contacting me, I must admit, I knew absolutely nothing about the HP-800. All I have known about Nuforce has been what I've read about the quite popular UDAC, UDAC2, Icon, and HDP dac/amps. I certainly had no idea that Nuforce had jumped into the headphone game. The HP-800 is Nuforce's first entry into full-sized headphones.

So the question is: How was Nuforce's first foray into full-sized headphones?

*Build Quality:*

Before I get into the aspects of it's design, I'd like to address one thing: I believe the HP-800 may have been designed with portable use in mind, yet the HP-800 is not portable by any conventional means. It's large, and doesn't fold up in any shape or form. This betrays it's incredibly minimal power requirements. The design will easily place the HP-800 as a home or studio headphone, not a portable one. Quite some large head bling here. The HP-800 does fit well as a transportable headphone, like office or library use with a laptop.

The HP-800 is a fully closed-back headphone which is made up almost entirely of very sturdy and solid feeling plastic (with thinly stamped aluminum cups) in a full black matte finish. That means fingerprint resistant, which is always a good thing. I grow tired of high gloss plastic that looks good as long as you have psychic powers and never physically touch the headphones. The design of the HP-800 is quite minimalistic, which would feel at home next to typical studio headphones you can purchase from the musical instrument section of any major electronics stores like Best Buy. It is almost entirely black, with the only contrasts being the driver covers being red/orange, and a golden metallic 'NU' logo on the center of each outer ear cup.

The headband is of the auto-adjusting, tension/suspension type, similar to the popular AKG K70x line, as well as the recent Philips Fidelio X1. The headband portion that rests on your head is made up of a very rubbery material that has quite a grip. This is the first time I have seen such a material being used, and I'm not sure it was the best choice. I find that this rubbery material is prone to picking up dust and dirt from the air, and is not exactly easy to wipe off.

The top portion that holds the wires that sends audio to the right driver is all plastic, and as such, I wouldn't recommend bending it if you feel like the HP-800 doesn't have enough extension, in fear of possibly snapping the plastic. This makes the HP-800 a possible problem for bigger heads, as you can't really bend the HP-800 in any way, unlike the Fidelio X1 which has a metal band that is easily bent for more extension.

The pads are synthetic leather/pleather. They're quite large, and very soft. Personally (as you may all know by now), I have a strong aversion for pleather pads, so I'm not exactly thrilled by the abundance of it on the HP-800. The pads, while big, don't have the largest openings, and they compress quite easily, so those with larger ears may find their ears pressing up against the driver covers, and inner walls of the pads.

The HP-800's left ear cup comes with a standard 3.5mm input, no locking mechanism, so cable replacement is a breeze. Speaking of the cables, the HP-800 comes with two cables: A cloth-covered long cable that terminates into a 3.5mm plug, with an attached 6.3mm adapter which screws on/off. One of the better stock cables I've ever come across. The shorter, thinner cable doesn't inspire much confidence in it's build quality, and unlike the lengthier cable, lacks proper strain reliefs. I'd stick with the longer cable, or buy a more durable short cable for portable use.

*Comfort:*

The comfort will be a hit or miss. The HP-800 may be problematic for larger heads, in that there may not be enough clearance, due to the lack of extension. My head fits, but the strong tension causes the cups to want to ride up my ears ever so slightly. This could've been mitigated with a longer extension. As it stands, it is a bit problematic for me personally, as the feeling of the drivers want to slide upwards never ceases.

The headband portion that rests on the top of the head is covered in very rubbery material which can and will grip onto your scalp or hair, so any small adjustments will yank a bit. This is only an issue if you're constantly shifting and readjusting.

The pads are quite soft and plentiful. Being synthetic leather (which I'm not a fan of on ANY headphone), they will heat up and get a little sticky. As mentioned before, the openings aren't the largest in diameter, so larger ears may have to struggle between pressing up to the driver covers and pinching up against the inner pad walls.

The HP-800 is quite lightweight, so they shouldn't pose much of an issue for those with neck problems. All in all, the HP-800 will cater to smaller heads and ears. Everyone else should try and demo these first.

The HP-800 doesn't exude much clamping force, and the little it does have will keep the HP-800 from sliding off the head. Needless to say, the HP-800 has an ideal amount of clamp to my ears without being too loose, or too clampy.

In terms of comfort, the HP-800 is among the better pleather-padded headphones I have reviewed on this guide. That means, that if you don't have a particular distaste for pleather, you may find the HP-800 to be relatively comfortable overall, assuming you have smaller ears. Personally, I find them okay in comfort, and mostly inoffensive, my main issue being the pad material, and the diameter of the openings. If Nuforce manages to update the pads with a bigger diameter, and possibly just a bit larger/deeper, they'd have a solid headphone in terms of comfort overall.

*Design Issues:*

Not particularly suited for portable use due to a very large frame, despite its minimal amping requirements.
Rubbery headband padding may grip onto the scalp/hair, potentially causing discomfort with every minor adjustment. Also picks up dirt/dust easily (the top side of the rubbery headband).
Pleather pads, while soft, build up heat in a hurry, and will stick to the skin. They also do not have the biggest openings, so those with large ears, take note.
Lack of extension for larger heads will cause the cups to pull and rise up towards the headband.
*Accessories:*

The HP-800 comes with:

One long, durable, cloth-braided cable w/3.5mm plug with an attached screwed on 6.3mm adapter.
One short, thin cable w/3.5mm plug
Carrying pouch
*Isolation/Leakage:*

The HP-800 as a fully closed-back headphone does incredibly well at keeping it's sound from escaping out into the world. This means that you can blast the HP-800 loudly, and very little will actually leak out, making it an ideal headphone for late night use when you're trying to keep your significant other in the same room from waking up. It's been quite some time since I've heard a headphone control noise leak as well as the HP-800, the last one being the Mad Dogs.

The HP-800 however isn't exactly great at keep external noise from leaking in, so it's not the best at passive noise-cancelling. It's not bad, but not the best.

*Sound:*

The HP-800 is unlike anything I've ever heard upon first listen. It's quite warm/dark most of the time, yet spacious, which I usually find to be quite a contradiction. Very much so. Coming off more neutral and brighter offerings, the HP-800 will sound stuffy and muted (it even makes the well known Creative Aurvana Live! sound bright in comparison). In fact, prior to hearing the Sennheiser HD650, my perception of it's sound just based on impressions I've read online (which didn't turn out to be true), I would've thought it'd sound something like how the HP-800 actually sounds like. Dark, creamy, and smooth, if a bit veiled. The only difference being that the HD650 is known for it's stellar and intimate mids, which the HP-800 just does not have.

Quite bassy (okay, VERY bassy), with fairly distant sounding mids, and mellow treble that sounds pretty up to par with the mids. For a closed, dark, mellow sounding headphone, I feel the soundstage to be quite spacious, more than likely due to how distant the mids sound. To be quite honest, I was thrown off by it's sound signature. However, given some time, I adapted to its tonal characteristics, and found it to have a charm I'd say is all it's own, even though it's still a bit polarizing.

It isn't the most detailed headphone by a stretch, but it is relatively enjoyable, pleasant, and fatigue free. I feel it's best suited for hip hop, and general club music with most importance in the pulse of the rhythm. For this reason, I find the HP-800 to be very genre specific.

All of that being said, the HP-800 is almost a completely different beast for virtual surround gaming use. Even though the headphone is dark and mellow, the linearity between the mids and treble makes it easy to maintain a good mix for gaming purposes. Because bass is situational in gaming and not overly dominant, you can raise volume levels to put the mids and treble into better focus (not overly so), making the HP-800 a competent, fun oriented, gaming headphone.

*Bass:*

Huge, dominating, impressive, and ferocious bass. It will be the first thing you immediately notice when listening to the HP-800. However, what sets itself apart, is that the bass is fairly linear (though quite emphasized from the mids and treble ranges). The sub bass is actually quite decent, and the mid bass is proficient in fullness, presence, and control. The bass is on the slower side, but doesn't creep into the mids. I expected this soft, yet full bass to swallow the mids, but the HP-800's control is pretty apparent.

*Mids:*

The mids are a paradox on it's own. The HP-800's bass doesn't swallow up the mids, and the treble isn't by any means bright or emphasized over the mids, yet the mids are a bit recessed to my ears. Almost undoubtedly so. The mids are warm and full-bodied, yet...distant. I'm at odds with the HP-800 because of this. It takes time to get used to.

I'm not entirely against recessed mids on a headphone (I do generally like a mild v-shaped sound signature), yet when a headphone is clearly NOT v-shaped, you'd expect mids to be either in tune with the rest of the sound, or up front and center. The HP-800's mids are a little off putting at first. Not a gaping void, but noticeably pushed back.

*Treble:*

The treble range is more or less in line with the mids in emphasis, meaning that they aren't in the spotlight, and are just a tad laid back, but not more so than the mids. They are in the comfortable range of being smooth, and sibilance free. Treble in instruments isn't exactly the sharpest, nor the clearest, ultimately making the HP-800 lack just a bit detail.

A bit glossed over, but completely inoffensive to the ears. I find the treble to be a strength when you play the HP-800 at a moderately loud volume, as it never gets harsh. Comparing the treble to the Creative Aurvana Live, I found the HP-800 to sound less detailed, but smoother, and less fatiguing.

*Soundstage:*

The soundstage is a surprisingly good thing in the HP-800. It's wide for a closed headphone, and thought not excelling in depth, there is decent amount of virtual space. I'll touch more on this in the next section.

*Positioning:*

Positional cues are good. Not great but good. The HP-800 has a pretty good soundstage in width, but not necessarily the best in depth. Also, positional cues in certain angles sound a bit diffused. The HP-800's positional cues take up a bit more virtual space, and aren't as precise. In the end, the HP-800 gets the job done, but there are better, and cheaper in this regard.

*Clarity:*

Clarity isn't exactly a strong suit in the HP-800. I do find it to be objectively clearer for gaming purposes in virtual surround gaming than it is for stereo/music use (or any non-virtual surround uses for that matter). Due to the fact that the HP-800 is pretty closely even in mids and treble, nothing is lost in between, so within a certain amount of volume, the HP-800 makes a pretty decent gaming headphone, and mitigates the overall darkness somewhat.

You do have to somewhat tune out the abundant amount of bass that leads the mix, though because the bass doesn't smother other details, it isn't that arduous a task. All in all, not the clearest headphone, but relatively stable.

*Amping:*

While the HP-800 isn't the most sensitive full-sized headphone I've tested, it truly demands very little amping with a maximum input power of only 30MW. This means that practically any device you hook up the HP-800 up to will drive them loudly, and with authority. As always, clean power is the best power, so while the effect may be subtle, a decent portable amp will benefit the HP-800 especially in controlling it's dominant, and somewhat slow bass. For gaming use, I found the Mixamp alone to be just fine for the HP-800. The HP-800 is already full bodied as is, even unamped.

*Value:*

The MSRP of the HP-800 is $129. In it's price range, it fills it's own niche, and for that reason competes well with others in it's price range, if you're looking into a somewhat unique sound signature, even amongst other dark/warm headphones. Bassheads in particular should take note.

*Final Impressions:*

I feel the HP-800 is a solid (though polarizing) headphone for those who'd like a closed back, pleasant, fatigue-free, warm headphone, with big bass, and solid noise leak control. I feel the HP-800 is a fairly competent closed headphone for virtual surround gaming, fun-oriented gaming in particular. Just remember, the HP-800 is bass first, everything else second. So unless you value a substantial amount of bass presence above everything else in a headphone's sound, you may want to do your homework before taking the plunge.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5 (Very Good)



It's a basshead can, in every sense of the word. Paired with a surprisingly good soundstage, makes the HP-800 a fun, bass driven headphone.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7 (Good)



Despite it's softer/veiled sound signature, it works surprisingly well for competitive gaming.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6.75/10 (Very Decent)



With a bigger diameter and deeper pads, the HP-800 could become a much more comfortable headphone. Could also use more extension to fit bigger heads, as well as a different material of the headband, instead of the rubber-like material used.





Spoiler: Overall: 6.75 (Very Decent)



I personally find the HP-800 a bit polarizing with it's bassy sound and it's veiled signature, yet spacious soundstage for a closed headphone.





----------
----------

*Razer Blackshark V2*

$99
*Where To Buy*: *Amazon*, *Best Buy*
*CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*


----------
----------

Sennheiser HD280 Pro




Sells for around $100.


Spoiler: Review



Needed to mention this one. Like the M50... these aren't very good for Dolby Headphone gaming. The soundstage is so miniscule, everything sounds pretty much like it's right next to you. No sense of depth or width. My RE0s were better at least.

Comfort-wise.... uhh, no. Just...no. Sennheiser loves it's clamp, and the HD280 Pro is a TORTURE device. It's a vice grip on your head, and the really 'perfect' seal adds heat and sweat on top of that painful clamp. Probably the worst I've used in terms of comfort.





Spoiler: Comfort: 4/10 (Bad)



The clamp is unbearable after a few minutes. The airplane cabin pressure is also incredibly uncomfortable.



----------
----------

Skullcandy Slyr (*headset*)
http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/slyr-black-yellow




Sells for $79.95


Spoiler: Review



Before I get started, I really want to thank Skullcandy for getting in contact with me and giving me the chance to review the SLYR, as well as the A40+Mixamp 2013 Edition, and A50s on their Astrogaming side.... They have been very communicative, and understanding. Can't thank them enough.

I'm sure that pretty much anyone interested in headphones know the Skullcandy brand. Their name is instantly recognizable, and their headphones can be found in many stores, ranging from their very entry level headphones, to their higher end Aviator and Mix Master headphones. They do not have a shortage of headphones, and as such, have been the target of a lot of criticism for not catering to audiophiles but to the domestic market. Personally, I can easily say that I do not have a lot of experience with Skullcandy products. My first pair of Skullcandy headphones were a pair of Ink'd IEMs that I bought ages ago loved. I didn't know a thing about headphones back then, but I do remember liking their sound signature, and their cheap price. The next product I had some time with was the Lowriders...a PINK pair, I had bought for my then girlfriend, hahaha. I have never been a fan of on ear headphones, and the Lowriders couldn't stay on my head. I honestly couldn't tell you if they were halfway decent or not. I have a slippery dome it seems, lol. I wasn't exactly pleased with them, and their build quality was quite lacking from what I'm used to today, but they were very inexpensive, and my girlfriend liked them well enough.

Anyways, my point is, I don't have a bias for OR against Skullcandy. What I DO know is that they have made great strides in improving their line and becoming more serious about the quality of their products. I can surely appreciate any company doing that. With the arrival of the SLYR, PLYR, and PLYR2 (with help from Astrogaming, which is well known in the gaming community, and which they now own), it's hard to not be curious about what Skullcandy has up their sleeves for us gamers.

So I'm approaching these headphones with a completely open mind. Okay, maybe not completely open. I do have ONE bias: I don't expect much from headsets. With as many headphones as I have owned and tested, gaming headsets have been, for the most part, disappointing. Save for the Sennheiser PC360 (which remains the best headset I have used, and still among the best competitively even among the amazing headphones I have owned), the next best headset for me was the Tritton AX720 which was decent, but not 'good' overall. They are excused as they come with a Dolby Headphone decoder box which more than makes up for their lack of pure sound quality. Everything else was borderline forgivable to 'blegh'. So, with that bad taste in headsets overall, the SLYR had an uphill battle, and that's before I even opened the package. Still, I was excited.

Hmm, the Skullcandy SLYR (pronounced Slayer). Upon opening the package and taking them out, I was still neutral. They were unassuming, and relatively stealthy in a dominantly matte black finish with sort of yellow/green 'windows' on the cups. From what I have seen of earlier Skullcandy designs, they tend to be fashion statements, with lots of urban/street flavors, etc. The SLYR is humble looking in comparison. I actually like this. I tend to prefer a more classy approach to my headphones, rather than ones that scream at you. The SLYR still has an edgy design to them with sharp angles, but it's not 'loud'. It's hip for the younger crowd, but still reserved enough for adults.

So that was my first impression on looks. Looks are not my top priority in a headphone. Comfort and sound first. How did they fare? Well, as soon as I put them on, I immediately thought: "Crap, these are on ear." I'm not a fan of on ears. Still, the pads were very soft, and they weren't pleather. Things I DEMAND in a headphone nowadays. I absolutely avoid pleather/leather like a plague. Then I realized, with a little bit of adjusting, the SLYR is actually circumaural/over ear! YES! Very happy about that. Certainly not the biggest cups, but they did fit my ears well enough (bigger openings than the Creative Aurvana Live, and much deeper pads). The SLYR is off too a good start, and I haven't even heard them yet.

As with every headphone I buy, my first listening test is ALWAYS music. Gaming comes later. I fired up some songs, let my ears adjust to their sound signature and soon after, I knew; Skullcandy meant business. These don't just sound like a good headset. They sound like a good headphone. PERIOD. I absolutely did not expect this sound coming from an $80 headset. The first thing that I immediately noticed was the balance between the bass, mids, and treble. I am not exaggerating in saying that headphones costing 3x the price of the SLYR can't manage to find such a great balance between fun and balance the way the SLYR does. I mean it. With the Sennheiser PC360, you get a really good and overall neutral-ish tonal balance, with not much sticking out of place, but not being exciting tonally. The SLYR on the other hand manages to sound balanced, with the right amount of bass emphasis and energy to make them exciting. They are forward sounding headphones, with not a hint of boredom in it anywhere. The Creative Aurvana Live sounds considerably more reserved in direct comparison, darker, and warmer. (which I had on hand at the time of review). While the CAL was still more refined overall, I have to say, I preferred the sonic signature of the SLYR. It was immediately more engaging and exciting. The SLYR isn't the fullest sounding headphone I've heard, nor the most refined, but they definitely got the balance right for my ears.

*Bass:*

To be honest, I expected to have more bass than they did. I expected bloated bass. Bass that gets in the way of detail. This is NOT what I got. Instead, I got punchy, impactful, energetic bass that is quite present, but never overwhelming. It also has good speed and decay. Quite impressed with the SLYR's bass. A very good start. If I had to give the bass a quantity, I'd give them an 8. Plenty of bass for me. Not perfectly in line with mids and treble, but it's a GOOD emphasis.

*Mids:*

I'm used to v-shaped curves, with bass and treble emphasis, and recessed mids. Yet, the SLYR has some pretty up front mids next to the typical v shaped can. Can't pinpoint if it's the smaller soundstage, or just the mids in general, but they certainly weren't what I consider really recessed. Maybe just slightly so next to the bass, but I'd say they're pretty in line with the treble. They are pretty forward in the sense that vocals are near you basically at all times unless a song purposely mixes them further back.

*Treble:*

You either expect dull, veiled treble, or treble that is too sharp, too spiky, too peaky. Again, the SLYR surprises in its sonic characteristics. The treble is energetic, but it's not harsh. It's very close in balance to the mids for me. It is RARE for treble to be in the safe zone between too soft, and too harsh. The SLYR is DEFINITELY in that safe zone. I honestly wish the DT990's treble had a similar line. That's right.

*Amping:*

As to be expected, the SLYR is a very efficient headphone, and I didn't feel they needed any extra amping.

*Soundstage:*

This is definitely the only aspect of their sound that I was personally not entirely happy with. Part of it is because I'm grown so accustomed to open headphones, with an airy, wide/deep soundstage, and going back to a closed headphone's soundstage and typical closed headphone signature is a bit jarring. After getting used to the closed headphone sound, I'd still say the SLYR's weakest aspect is the soundstage. It's relatively small even comparing other closed headphones. I have VERY little experience with closed headphones, and I feel that out of the few I have on this guide, the SLYR is near the bottom in terms of soundstage. Thankfully, everything else is so good, so this drawback doesn't hurt as much. Still, it is small, and everything sounds pretty packed together next to other headphones in direct comparison like the CAL and A40s (the two main headphones I had on hand).

*Positioning:*

Now that we're getting into the gaming side of this review, the first thing to discuss is positioning. Since I feel that positioning is very dependent on soundstage, I feel they did suffer just slightly compared to my faves. That is the nature of closed headphones (with the exception of the D7000, and DT770s which have some truly large soundstages for closed headphones), and the Pro 900 which, with the aid of S-Logic helps give a sense of depth not typically found on closed headphones, though not by much. The SLYR does place positional cues properly around you, though with the lack of soundstage, there isn't much space between you and the virtual space to make pinpointing easy. Still, it does a good job. Not great. I was able to dominate pretty easily in Call of Duty 4, and didn't feel like I was at all hampered by the SLYR's positional cues. I didn't feel like they gave me a huge advantage compared to some of my fave headphones, but they did their job well. Again, good. Bear in mind, the SLYR was definitely marketed as a stereo headset with a mixer that plugs into RCA cables. I'm fairly certain that those who play in stereo will have VERY little to complain about.

*Clarity:*

The SLYR is a warm headphone, but with enough crispness to say that they are plenty detailed for gaming. The closed design hurts clarity again only compared to open headphones like the PC360 and K701. As a closed headphone, I found them to have a nice balance between fun and detail-whoring, so I'd say that if I had to rate clarity separately, they'd get a 7 (good). I doubt there will be any complaints about clarity, especially at their price range.

*Comfort:*

Pads? Soft, deep, comfy velour. They could definitely be bigger as larger ears MIGHT make these on ear ear headphones. Clamp? Not too loose, not too firm. I find them just right. Weight? Very light. Check. They stay relatively in place at all times, with not a lot of readjusting needed. A huge win here.

*Microphone:*

The microphone is permanently affixed to the SLYR, but like the PC360, you swing it upwards. Unlike the PC360, the mic on the SLYR tucks away nicely into the cup, and is relatively well hidden when not in use. it's also small, but sensitive enough to pick up my voice quite easily. My voice came through clearly on my PS3 device settings, so I have very little to say about it, other than it does it's job well. It may be just a little too sensitive for my setup, as I have a large, noisy fan near me, and the mic picks it up unless I sit further back than what I'm used to. Still, that shouldn't be an issue for most people.

*Build Quality:*

The SLYR is made out of all plastic. The plastic feels sturdy enough for my taste, somewhat reminiscent of the PC360 plastic. I have more faith in tossing these around than I would the Creative Aurvana Live. Assuming you're not abusing the hell out of the SLYR, I don't see these breaking with normal use.

*Accessories:*

The SLYR comes with a stereo mixer. Think of it as a stereo alternative to the Mixamp, with the ability to mix voice/game audio at your desired levels, with three different EQ presets. One bass heavy, one flat, and the other treble heavy. I personally don't have much use for the Mixer since I own the Mixamp and prefer gaming in Dolby Headphone surround, but I did test the mixer and found the presets to work relatively well, and the mixer to also work pretty well in mixing game and voice without a lot of distortion. If anything, the closest alternative to this Mixer is the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer, which retails for $40 and is for the 360. The SLYR's mixer works for both the 360 and PS3 (as well as PC). I didn't find a need for the EQ presets as the SLYR already has such an agreeable sound signature.

The Mixer has a very lengthy cable terminated in RCA jacks with piggyback female inputs. The Mixer is powered by a standard USB plug, and comes with a 3.5mm input for ANY headphone, as well as the 2.5mm input for the 360's controller for chat audio. The SLYR comes with a detachable 3.5mm male/male cable (a bit on the short side, IMHO) that carries chat audio. You can indeed use your own 3.5mm male/male standard audio cables, though the entry on the headset side may not accommodate thicker plugs. I found that the CAL's extension cable fit, but the first gen Astro 3.5mm cables didn't. I used the CAL's extension on the headset side, and my own 3.5mm male/male cables on the female end of the CAL's extension cable when using the SLYR for music on my main headphone setup (non-gaming). Basically, you will want cables with thin 3.5mm plugs if you want a lengthy cable for the SLYR. I don't know where to get lengthy ones that also carry voice audio, unfortunately.

*Value:*

$80 gets you a damn good headphone that just so happens to actually be a headset. Convenience, comfort, and a relatively forward, engaging, and still balanced tone makes the SLYR the very first headset in the sub-$100 bracket that I recommend to anyone who absolutely needs a headset.

*Final Impressions:*

While the SLYR isn't perfect, and aren't as refined as to what I'm personally used to (hello "Head-fi standards"), I must say that even with my higher end tastes, I really, REALLY like the SLYR from the sound, all the way to the comfort. These are great for music, pretty good for fun gaming, and good enough for competitive use. Skullcandy's first serious gaming headset gets a solid B from me, and have made me a true believer. I can't wait to see what else Skullcandy has up their sleeve. If their $80 headset is this good, I have high hopes for their higher end models. One last thing that you will want to know: I prefer the SLYR over the A50s.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5/10 (Very good)



They really did a great job in finding a great balance between fun and balance. Very impressive for this price.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



They absolutely do their job. I'd say stereo gamers will particularly love them, kind of like how I personally see the M50s if a little better in terms of positional cues. For us virtual surround gamers, I'd still say they are worth looking into if you absolutely need a headset.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.5/10 (Very good)



Those with larger ears may have to use them as on ear as mentioned before, though they are still comfy in that way.



----------
----------

Sony XB700

Sells for just over $80.


Spoiler: Review



A real guilty pleasure. I knew what I was getting into, and I LOVED it... for music that is. For gaming...well, let me give you an example. In Mass Effect 2, when you're on your ship, you CAN'T hear the dialogue, because the humming sounds the ship makes is SO pronounced, voices are pretty much completely drowned out. Needless to say, these are NOT ideal for picking up finer details. Pass for gaming. The 770 Pros do a better job at keeping mids intact, and that isn't exactly a strength for the DT770 Pro 80s.

Comfort-wise, the XB700 is a hit and a miss. The headphone is luxuriously comfortable...until all that padding makes the surface area it made contact with, incredibly hot and sticky. Then that comfort takes a large step in the wrong direction. Seriously, they get hot and sticky in a hurry. Considering how much surface area the pads take up... it's not a pleasant feeling at all. They'd be perfect for near freezing temperatures though.





Spoiler: Fun: 6/10 (Decent)



The bass is something to hear once in a lifetime, though it is quite omnipotent and distracting.





Spoiler: Competitive: 4/10 (Bad)



While the XB700 isn't one of the most undetailed headphones I have heard, the bass is still way too strong making details hard to hear.





Spoiler: Comfort: 5/10 (Mediocre)



The comfort starts off amazing, but the large amount of pleather to skin contact is a bit too much. Causes sweating, skin reddening quite quickly.



----------
----------

Tritton AX720 (*headset*)

Sells for $129 (Best Buy).


Spoiler: Review



My ex-roommate purchased the AX720, and I'm happy to say that it's a pretty decent headset. I find it better than what I remember the A40s to be, but the general consensus is that the A40s are slightly better than the AX720 which is why I can't really judge the A40s. The AX720's mic works fine, the amp is comparable to the Mixamp if slightly MORE powerful and sleeker and more practical (it's a set top box, which you don't need next to you unlike the Mixamp). The headset itself is closed and comfortable, with good positional accuracy, with a small but still decently spaced out soundstage. It doesn't come close to the headphones I have mentioned, but it's a great starting headset which you can consider FREE, as what you really want is the AX720 virtual surround amp. Many people wouldn't have an issue with the AX720 headset. It doesn't do anything horribly wrong, but doesn't do anything particularly particularly well either. It's just good enough to get you going.

Comfort-wise, I didn't find them bad or great. They do their job, though for a sealed headphone, they are comfortable.


Fun: 6.5/10 (Decent)
Competitive: 7/10 (Good)
Comfort: 7/10 (Good)

----------
----------

Turtle Beach PX21 (*headset*)

Sells for $80 (or less).


Spoiler: Review



There is an audible hiss blanketed over the sound due to its proprietary inline amp. Yeah, if you hook this up to the Mixamp, you're getting a double dose of hiss. If you can get over the hiss, the sound is actually pretty crisp and detailed. I actually LIKE the sound it has, hiss aside. However, due to the hiss, I won't go any further into trying to remotely going into the specifics. And yes, this is an innate issue with all PX21s. The inline amp is the problem.

All this tells me is that you should not use headphones that have in line amps, especially with another amp like the Mixamp.

Comfort-wise, don't remember much, but the neoprene pads weren't amazing.


Fun: 5/10 (Mediocre)
Competitive: 5/10 (Mediocre)
Comfort: N/A

----------
----------

Yuin G1A (*clip-on*)

Sells for $150


Spoiler: Review



The Yuin G1A. You can say that these are the most high end clip-on headphones in the world. That sounds like hyperbole, but it's true. Clip-ons don't really have much of a market for audiophiles, and are content with staying relatively on the domestic market, and/or for physical activities. With a small niche market, the Yuin G1A sits comfortably as the most expensive and highest regarded clip-on headphone.

I am a huge fan of clip-ons. They don't hurt my ears like IEMs. They stay in place no matter what I do, short of literally touching them. They are small enough to lay down with. After a few days of adjusting to how clip-ons feel on your ears, they may as well be the most comfortable headphone design ever made.

It helps that my first experience with clip-ons was with the Koss KSC-75, which for a mere $10-$20, should be in every audiophile's inventory. The KSC-75 hits well above their price range, is extremely comfy, pleasing, and just... legendary.

My 2nd taste of clip-ons headphones was with the rare and mature KSC-35. The KSC-35 is older than the KSC-75 and discontinued everywhere, but can be bought directly from Koss on their website. The Koss KSC35 sacrifices just a little comfort in place of more musicality and warmth compared to their cheaper, and more common sibling. It's also now sold for 3x the price of the KSC-75, though I personally don't believe they should be priced so high, despite my overwhelming love for them.

So how does the Yuin G1A stack up next to the budget conscious Koss offerings? Does the overall package justify the huge price difference? Let's find out.

The package is quite small. A nicely designed cardboard box, with a nice presentation. Doesn't look as generic as the Koss packaging. Upon opening the package I am greeted by the sleek Yuin G1A.

*Build Quality:*

The 'cups' have a sexy, brushed metal finish to them, which immediately puts it well above the KSC-35 and 75 in aesthetics. With that said, that really is the only physical aspect I find superior to the Koss clip-ons. Everything else is so ridiculously similar to the Koss clip-ons, they may as well have been made by the same OEM. The cable's only difference is that the two sides merge further down the line, making it easier to wear the G1A behind the neck, so you can take them off and let them rest on your shoulders/chest, which isn't that easy to do with the Koss clip-ons due to how close the clip-ons are to where the cables merge.

The build itself is... well, it doesn't inspire confidence. The clips are plastic (a very comfortable curved plastic), which seem like they won't take a beating the way the KSC-75's silicone/metal clips, or the sharper, stronger plastic on the KSC-35 would. The cable is quite frankly, sad. It is essentially the same thin, flimsy cable found on the Koss clip-ons. My KSC35's cable is already pulling away from the drivers, and I have feeling the same would probably happen to the G1A's cables.

The good thing about the Koss clip-ons is that their ugly 'hubcaps' aren't luxurious, so I doubt you'd fear messing them up. They are rugged to say the least. On the other hand, you have the G1A with it's amazing brushed metal finish, which might be just as sturdy, but I'd be scared to just toss them in a bag in fear of scratching them or leaving any marks whatsoever. The fact they are $150 further enhances my fears of treating them with wild abandon like I'd do with the Koss clip-ons. In the end, they are expensive, yet very cheap feeling other than the back cover. Very disappointing overall. It's fine with the Koss clip-ons, NOT so with a product this expensive.

*Comfort:*

If there is one thing that can be said, it's that the Yuin G1A is amazingly comfortable. They literally disappeared on my ears. The most important part of a clip-on in terms of comfort is the clips. If the clips don't feel good resting on your ears, that can be quite problematic. Thankfully, the Yuin's plastic clips are smooth and curved just right. They share a very similar form factor as the KSC-75's clips, which are both quite a bit better on the ears than the KSC-35's relatively sharp-edged clips. I also like that the clips are so smooth, they easily slide on my ears. The KSC-75's rubberized clips 'grip' on my skin, so it's a little harder to put on than the Yuin clips. They are both wonderful to wear, however. As mentioned before, the small form factor, secure fit, and super comfort make these practically unrivaled in terms of long sessions, relaxing, or physical activities. As usual, clip-ons may not be the best in comfort for those who wear glasses, as they have to share the same placement on the ears.

*Accessories:*

The only accessories is a 3.5mm to 6.3mm (1/4") adapter (the same exact one found on the HE-400, coincidentally), as well as an extra pair of foams.

*Isolation/Leakage:*

As with the Koss clip-ons, the Yuin G1A is open backed (though they actually LOOK closed). This means that they do not isolate well, if at all. External noise will come in with very little contention. I find this to be more good than bad for my Koss clip-ons, as I'd like to be able to hear things around me when I wear my clip ons at work. However, the G1A being hard to drive for such use (more on that later), as well as my fear of physically damaging them makes their very open nature not as beneficial, seeing as the GA1 is more content being used at home with a dedicated amp.

*Amping:*

As I briefly mentioned, the Yuin G1A is a rare breed of clip-on, in that it has a relatively high impedance of 150ohm, and take advantage of that by being harder to drive than typical clip-ons (as well as lots of full sized headphones), which results in more refinement at the expense of versatility. They don't demand a LOT of amping, but amping is necessary nonetheless. I find that it sounds cleaner with an external amp than with the Mixamp alone. Soundstage and overall positioning didn't change, but I feel the improvement in audio fidelity warrants using an amp. Still, these can be used with the Mixamp alone without much drawbacks.

*Sound:*

Before I get started on it's sound, let me state that all three clip-ons I have used can easily swap clips with the others (i.e. KSC35 with Yuin clips, G1A with KSC75 clips, etc). The problem I see with this, is that the sound signature of the headphones change quite a bit just by whatever clip you have equipped onto them. The reason being that each clip places the drivers at certain distances from the ears, which greatly vary the sound signatures. Even with the same clips, just a light bending of them will alter sound quality (easily done with the KSC75's clips). The Yuin clips can bend just a teeny bit, but be prepared to possibly break them in the process if you attempt to. The KSC35's clips don't seem to have any give whatsoever, so what you hear is what you get. For the purpose of this review, I will be rating the G1A based off it's stock clips, which I found to give the most balanced sound signature.

Now on to the sound itself. Upon first listen, the first thing I thought of was that the Yuin G1A sounded like a mini Q701. Well balanced, relatively neutral, with just a hint of warmth. Obviously lacking in soundstage, as well as being lot smaller in presentation of sound, but mini-Q701s is the best description I can come up with.

*Bass:*

Starting with the bass, I can say that the Yuin G1A has neutral bass. The bass is neither strong nor weak. It's present, but not emphasized nor lacking. The KSC35 has more bass impact and presence by quite a bit, and the KSC75 has a slight lead in bass impact.

*Mids:*

Really nice, balanced mids. Not forward or recessed, they sound natural and full. Some frequencies are ever so slightly forward than others, but overall, I find it well integrated with the rest of the frequencies.

*Treble:*

Nice and smooth. SOMETIMES has some sparkle, but overall, it's presented quite naturally. A nice improvement over both the Koss clip-ons which sound grainy and unrefined next to the Yuin, especially in the treble.

*Soundstage:*

Like the other clip-ons, the soundstage isn't big, but it's somewhat airy and spacious, still not rivaling a full-sized headphone's soundstage.

*Positioning:*

I find the G1A to perform very similarly to the Koss clip-ons. They do good. I didn't have a problem playing competitively, though there is room for improvement.

The positional cues don't have a lot of space to work with, but with what they have, they do a good job placing sounds around you. It helps that they are a bit more clearer and fuller sounding than the Koss clip-ons, so soundwhoring is easier.

*Clarity:*

Very clear. Very impressed with how detailed the G1A is. Detailed, and full sounding. Just a lovely balance all around, making these very good for all around gaming.

*Value:*

It's hard to judge the Yuin G1A's value. They deliver a rich, detailed sound which is noticeably improved on what the Koss clip-ons offer. On the other hand, the improvement doesn't justify the huge price jump, nor does the shoddy build quality on the cables. I would say these would make more sense being sold at $75, and even then, they could use some improvement on the cables and perhaps the clips, even though I love the clips.

*Final Impressions:*

The Yuin G1A is a fantastic clip on, though overpriced when everything is taken into account. They won't replace full-sized headphones in either competitive or fun gaming, but they are great alternatives if you wanna lay back and listen without the feeling of having something on your head. If you are a huge fan of the Koss clip-ons, you may wanna give the Yuin G1A a chance, as it refines and fills out the already great sound found on the budget friendly Koss offerings. Just be prepared to pay a steep price for a fractional improvement. Do I recommend it? No. The only people who should look into the Yuin G1A are those who love clip-ons and want to see what the best sounds like.


Fun: 6.75/10 (Quite Decent)
Competitive: 7.5/10 (Very Good)
Comfort: 9.5/10 (Amazing)

----------
----------

Ultrasone HFI-15G

DISCONTINUED
Where To Buy: Ebay if you're lucky


Spoiler: Review



The Ultrasone HFI-15G. After having come off the impressively comfortable, closed headset variant, the HS-15, I knew I had to try the 15G. I desperately wanted a lively, open, and super comfortable headphone that I could lay down and relax to (which is less than ideal with full-sized headphones), and on paper, the 15G suited that need perfectly. Did it suit these needs in execution?

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Excellent

Before I begin, I need to mention that there was an older 15G model with gold lettering and different exterior cup design, with an incredibly long cable. The one being reviewed is the newer model with gray lettering, and short cable. I currently can't confirm whether the differences are entirely aesthetic, or if there are sonic differences between them.

Not much has changed coming from the HS-15. It is basically identical in build, with the exceptions being the lack of an oversized boom-mic, semi-open cups vs. the closed cups on the HS-15, and a standard, very short 3.5mm cable.

I'll basically paste what I've written on the HS-15, adding/omitting the differences.

The HFI-15G has a retro 80's vibe to it's design, with an all black plastic frame. The HFI-15G reminds me of the many cheap no-name headphones found in any store in terms of aesthetics. It's all function over form, substance over style, which fits it's intentions in every way.

The headband is covered in relatively cheap looking, but smooth synthetic leather. It sits perfectly on the head, and you could potentially bend and twist it in any which way without so much as even a minor scare of it breaking.

The round cups are held by short plastic arms that would allow plenty of extension for my longish head. The cups look reminiscent of car rims with silver accents. The arms have gray S-Logic/Ultrasone HFI-15G branding. Update (I forgot to mention this): The 15G does not collapse inward or fold flat, so it limits its choices on travel pouches/bags. That being said, the headphone has a relatively small form factor, and should fit plenty of bags, cases, etc.

The foam ear pads are supra aural/on ear, reminiscent of Koss Portapro, and the Sennheiser PX-100, though larger, and considerably softer. The HFI-15G pads are thicker and more plush, though you can feel a thinner circular area in the middle (which I'm sure is to not muffle up the sound.)

The cable itself is quite short. The cable terminates into a 3.5mm plug with a generous strain relief.

Overall, while the HFI-15G certainly looks cheap, there are seemingly no real structural weaknesses anywhere on it's frame, and the plastic looks like it could take a lot of abuse. You could bend the headband and twist the cups, yet it'd go back to it's normal shape without any issue whatsoever. It's a wonder how headphones this relatively inexpensive can take any abuse short of a nuclear strike, yet headphones costing over 10x the price would crumble under any minor stress. I can safely say that these would suit anyone that needs a beater headphone to toss around and abuse without any real consequences.

*Accessories:*

3.5mm extension cable: Considering how short the cable is on the HFI-15G, it is a logical choice to include an extension cable. That being said, the length of the extension cable is borderline illogical, as it is extremely long. I'd recommend using some other extension cable with a more modest length, for less potential sacrifice to the sound quality, and less cable management.

*Comfort:*
Rating: Great

I'll paste what I've said of the HS-15, as the comfort is absolutely identical, aside from slightly less weight due to a lack of boom microphone. The difference in weight is negligible, as they're both incredibly light.

The HFI-15G is easily THE most comfortable supra aural headphone I have owned to date, outside of the Koss/Yuin clip ons (which may be on ear, but as clip ons, don't sit on the ear the same way as headphones with headbands).

The HFI-15G is incredibly lightweight, and rests on the ears just enough to not be loose, but tight enough to stay secure. The only issue I have is that my right ear gets sore after a prolonged session, though that may be a personal sensitivity issue, as I get no discomfort on my left ear. I have to assume that if others have less sensitive ears, the HFI-15G may be near perfection (9.5) in comfort for them.

Again, these are arguably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn outside of the Koss KSC75 and Yuin G1A. I'd argue that the Sony MA900 may beat it solely due to the fact that it (mostly) rests around the ears, though with it's larger frame and my inability to relax and lay down with them in the same way as the HS-15, I would honestly reach for the HFI-15G over the MA900 more times than not if I were basing everything off comfort. I'm positive that some who didn't find the MA900 to be comfortable, would think otherwise of the HFI-15G.

Long story short, if you want excellent comfort, it simply doesn't get much better than this for an on ear headphone, and perhaps any other kind of headphone.

*Design Issues:*

The only issue I see with the HFI-15g is that the non-detachable cable is very short, and unless you provide your own extension cable, you'll have to contend with the unruly and overly lengthy extension cable provided with the 15G.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Fair


It honestly leaks about as much as the closed HS-15, which is to say, it doesn't isolate all too well, though doesn't get loud either. As with any open headphone, they do not make for the best headphones if you need absolute silence in or out. It does block out sound better than something like a KSC75, which is like wearing nothing at all.

*Sound:*
Rating: Good

Whereas the HS-15 was very, very warm, the HFI-15G is noticeably less warm (though definitely still on the warm side), with prominent bass emphasis, though considerably less so compared to the (exceedingly) heavy bass tilt on the HS-15. The end result is a more balanced sound signature, though not natural by any stretch of the word. It is unquestionably less polarizing and more likely to be favored over the HS-15. It is undoubtedly better sounding than the HS-15 in almost all regards, though the price difference seems steep.

The Ultrasone hits a nice sweet spot between fun and balance, with a definitely tilt towards fun. It also loves to be played on a moderately higher volume, despite Ultrasone's aim at mitigating volume level by a considerable amount.

As with the HS-15, the HFI-15G is sensitive to ear placement and it could benefit from a tighter clamp for SQ-reasons (at the expense of its stellar comfort). That being said, the 15G would likely be a hit to fans of headphones with considerable bass, openness, and comfort.

*Bass:*
Rating: Great

The HFI-15G's bass is full, strong, and lively with a notable emphasis in the mid-bass. As with all Ultrasones I've heard to date, the bass is very well textured and controlled. The speed and decay is moderate despite its prominence, which as far as I've known and heard, is an Ultrasone specialty. Not many other headphones that yield the 15G's control. The 15G's bass is more fleshed out and better integrated with the rest of the sound compared to the HS-15, though the Pro 900, and Pro 2900, which sounded more artificial, stood out as some of the tightest, most refined, bass I've heard, despite their more artificial tonality in other areas. The level of prominence on the 15G's bass will take some attention away from the mids, though it is by no means invasive or bloated, just strong.

*Mids:*
Rating: Decent

The mids are a hit or miss with the 15G. The mids aren't particularly lost in the mix, though I would place blame on the S-Logic messing with the mids the most. S-Logic to me, seems to artificially enhance the sense of space by pushing things further away in the soundstage, which results in things sounding distant in general. The mids fall on the thinner, distant side compared to the bass, though they aren't hampered by the treble whatsoever. Due to the bass control and generally even mids to treble response, the 15G comes off as bass first, mids and treble second. The upper mids to lower treble are definitely the most recessed part of the 15G's sound signature, which then lead up to a treble spike for some sparkle.

*Treble:*
Rating: Quite Decent

The treble is overall on the smooth, buttery side, with a noticeable peak for sparkle at around 10khz, which sounds cleaner and clearer than the stifled and muted treble output of the HS-15. I would've preferred a broader range of treble emphasis, as the HFI-15G is still on the rolled off side overall, though at louder volumes, it is quite even sounding, if just short of the neutral line of emphasis. Due to the disparity between anything before and after 10khz, the particular spike can become a nuisance if your volume level is catering to the other frequencies. Nowhere near as problematic as the DT990 or HE-400's treble spike, however.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Great

The 15G's soundstage is quite impressive, with a great amount of width. Music sounds open and spacious, with a few instances where it sounded out of my head. The 15G's soundstage shines especially when gaming in virtual surround. I have yet to be let down by Ultrasone's S-Logic for gaming applications, and the streak continues with the 15G. Time and time again, I was fooled into believing a sound was coming from my room and not the headphones. The imaging on the 15G was great, with tight, focused audio cues, which were easy to pinpoint in the virtual space. The depth isn't the most impressive for a dynamic headphone, but I didn't have much, if any problem with it's presentation.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Great

The 15G is easily one of the best sub-$100 headphones for positional cues. The positional cues were sharp, tight, and focused, though some can make a valid argument that sounds can be more distant than the typical dynamic headphone without S-Logic. I place more importance towards the direction of sound placement more than the distance (as my eyes can take care of the rest, once I face the direction of sounds), so I don't have too much of a problem dominating shooter games with the 15G's positional prowess.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Good

Clarity in the 15G is considerably improved compared to the HS-15, which was quite warm and veiled in comparison. The 15G is still on the warm side, but nowhere near as muffled or stuffy. The bass tilt on the 15G takes its seat as the dominant aspect of it's sound, though the mids and treble are generally on equal footing, and unhampered by the bass in general. As stated previously, most of the shortcomings in clarity can be blamed on S-logic pushing things further back in the soundstage, and less because of the potent bass.

*Amping:*
Recommended

The 15G needs an amp more for volume than drivability, as it has a low volume output with general sources by design. I don't personally find the 15G hard to drive, though some sources can limit the 15G to moderate volumes, where I prefer a moderately high level (nothing ear piercing). I recommend a portable amp, which is all that is necessary for the 15G, or at the most, an entry desktop amp for convenience, which should be more than necessary. I feel a neutral amp like the O2 should be a great match for the 15G.

Personal Recommendation?

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

Potent bass, and great soundstage lead to a very fun, immersive headphone which lends itself perfectly to bass driven music, action movies, and immersive games. Don't expect it to highlight vocals, acoustic music, or any real audiophile-specific necessities where detail retrieval is of utmost importance.

Those looking for a sub-$100 headphone, should really look out for the 15G in particular. I recommend the 15G for those who want a general purpose headphone, where fun is favored over analyzing details.

*Comparisons:*

The only headphones I can truly compare it to in terms of uses and general sound signature are the Beyerdynamic DT990, HiFiMAN HE-400, and Philips Fidelio X1, all which are better overall, but considerably more expensive, heavier, and less comfortable overall.

The Sennheiser PX100-II is a solid music alternative to the HFI-15G in the sub-$100 price range if you prefer a warm, mid rich, and smooth, non-fatiguing headphone. The PX100-II is undoubtedly the more music-friendly headphone with a more stable sound signature, but it's quite clampy and less comfortable (considerably more external ear fatigue), and less gamer friendly, with a more closed in soundstage. Note: No review is planned for the PX100-II in the near future.

*Final Impressions:*

The HFI-15G won't win any awards based on its aesthetics or sheer technical ability, but it's fun, bassy signature, and great synergy with virtual surround puts it high on my recommendations for fun uses like immersive gaming, bass driven music, and action movies, all at an affordable price. It's just a great headphone for those who want to have fun, and don't want to deal with the typical bass looseness and muffled sound of headphones that normally cater towards the fun side at an entry-level price.

*Likes, Dislikes, and Unfiltered Thoughts:*

What I like:

The bass
Fun factor
Immersion
Comfort
Soundstage
Build quality (despite cheap looks)
Price

What I don't like:

Thin midrange
The cable could be longer (though it does come with a generous extension cable)
Could stand have a better transition from bass to mids.
Upper mids could stand to be less recessed relative to the treble spike
Finicky with ear placement
Pads aren't removable
Doesn't fold flat or collapse inward
May be hard to find nowadays

Unfiltered Thoughts:

I really like this headphone. Quite an improvement over the HS-15 which was just too warm and veiled for my taste. My right ear gets a bit sore after awhile, which is annoying as I love to wear these up until that point. I think that's a personal issue, though. While it isn't perfect, the sound signature lends itself well to my kind of music, and types of movies and games I play. There isn't much to complain about, to be honest.





Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



Fun is the 15G's forte, with great bass impact, deep immersion, and plenty of potential for wow inducing moments in movies and games.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



While the 15G is leaning towards fun, I had little issue dominating with it in competitive games. The well controlled bass, sharp audio cues, and solid soundstage for gaming makes the 15G quite a competent headphone, though those looking for competitive oriented headphones first, should look elsewhere.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8/10 (Great)



Regardless of whether any other headphone is on ear or over ear, there simply isn't much out there that is as comfortable as the HFI-15G, though if you're particularly sensitive to on ears, they may induce some soreness after prolonged periods.





Spoiler: Overall: 7.25/10 (Good)



Affordable, sturdy, very comfortable, super light, and fun. That is really all that needs to be said.





Tier B: $150-300

AKG K612 Pro

Street Price: $175-range
Where To Buy: Amazon.com



Spoiler: Review



Before I get started, I'd like to thank guide contributor and friend, Change is Good for sending the K612 Pro for review. Had it not been for him, very little chance these would've ever had a review on the guide.

The K612 Pro. A direct successor to the K601, though I haven't confirmed whether it's a simple headphone refresh, or if they actually updated the drivers. I haven't had any experience with the standard K601, so I personally can't prove this to be true or not. Knowing AKG and their reluctance to give up their headphones for improved models, I'll assume the K612 Pro sounds near identical to the K601. Based on all I have read of the K601 and what I have experienced with the K612 Pro... it wouldn't surprise me if the only difference was entirely cosmetic. I've been told that the K612 and K601 sound near identical, with the K612 having just a hint more bass. If so, it is definitely worthwhile getting the K612 over the K601, as the K612's bass is a standout.

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Great

As with the other AKG models I have owned or tested, the K612 Pro shares the same exact design and frame as the K601, K701, K702, Q701, K702 65th Anniversary, and K712 Pro. The only key differences being the leather headband shape, and the cable being non-removable.

Made of a durable plastic, I find the build quality to be quite good. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse.

Compared to the 7xx models, the headband is larger/wider. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the K612 Pro from a torture device to a relatively comfortable headphone, with some nitpicks. There is no padding, which is a shame, as it could soften up the hard leather used. The headband distributes pressure evenly across where it rests, though it does pull down towards the scalp quite a bit.

The velour pads feel mostly reminiscent of the K701, K702, and Q701 pads, with the key difference being that they aren't angled. They are large and relatively deep, and should fit most if not all types of ears. The pads are a bit firm, and lack the comfort of the K702 Anniversary or K712 Pro's memory foam velour pads. The upside to this, is that it allows the ears to breathe a little more.

The cable is not detachable (unlike the 7xx line). It terminates into a 3.5mm plug with a screw on 6.3mm adapter.

*Accessories:*

Unfortunately, the K612 is devoid of any accessories, other than a 6.3mm adapter connected to the cable.

*Comfort:*
Rating: Very Good to Great

The bad news:

Hard leather headband with constant pressure downwards to the top of the head due to the tension of the suspension wires.
Clampy. The pads are huge and a bit firm, and due to the clamp adds a bit of pressure on the upper jaw.

The good news:

The headband has no bumps unlike the K701, older K702, and Q701.
The K612 Pro is relatively light for it's large size, so pain to the neck is minimal compared to other, heavier headphones.
Auto-adjusting headband eases the pain of readjusting for a proper fit.

I find the K612 Pro to be relatively comfortable, despite having some downforce on the headband, and some moderate clamp. The biggest source of discomfort on the K612 is definitely the headband, though I'm sure that after a period of use, most will become get used to the feeling. Those with smaller heads will most likely find it even more comfortable.

*Design Issues:*

Can't say I personally find much to complain about the tried and tested AKG K6xx and K7xx design. My only main gripes with the K612 Pro is that the cable isn't detachable unlike the K7x2 variants and Q701. Also, the comfort could be better with some headband padding, softer ear pads, and less clamp.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Poor

The K612 is a fully open headphone, and as such, it is expected not to perform well for noise isolation/leakage. As I mention time and time again, reports of open headphone's leak tend to be severely exaggerated. Yes, you may bother someone in the same room, but never someone in another room, even with the door open. Unless you need absolute silence in the same room, open headphones don't leak so loud as to bother most people, even if they were in the same room.

*Sound:*
Rating: Great

While I have never heard the original K601, the K612 Pro sounds a lot like what I have read of the K601: The K612 Pro is easily one of the most linear and balanced headphones I've heard to date, even in comparison to the K701, K702, and Q701. It's a wonder how AKG manages to sell these for less, though I gather it's due to less refinement, especially at louder volumes (which tends to distort the drivers), and is handled with less finesse compared to how it behaves at moderate volume levels.

The K612 Pro isn't as musical as the K712 Pro and K702 65th Anniversary, but what you get is a faithful reproduction of music with fewer peaks that seem out of place. The body of sound is neither thick nor thin. It sits squarely between the two extremes.

*Bass:*
Rating: Very Good

The K612 Pro has a surprising amount of low end extension and fullness without artificial bumps. It reaches quite low (lower than even the bass boosted K712 Pro), which is quite rare of open dynamic headphones. In addition to the full and extended bass, the K612's mid bass isn't boosted, maintaining the K612's neutral balance.

The K612's bass isn't ever dominant, nor thin. It is present, natural, and safe. If you like a bass emphasized sound, look elsewhere, but if you like a generally well balanced and stable bass output, the K612 Pro does not disappoint.

The decay of the K612's bass is moderate in speed and nicely textured, though not as articulate as the 7xx series bass. The K612's bass isn't emphasized by any means, but it is present and accounted for at all times. Next to the K612 Pro, the K712 Pro has an added warmth and body to the mid bass, is snappier, but rolls off earlier. This gives sub bass better representation with the K612 Pro.

Due to it's great linearity, the K612 Pro makes a better rounded headphone compared to many other open headphones that roll off early with a strong mid bass hump. If you don't have a particular need for bass emphasis, but prefer accurate bass instead, the K612 Pro makes a fantastic choice especially for an open headphone.

*Mids:*
Rating: Great

The K612's linearity and balance leads to a natural midrange, barring a few hiccups in the upper midrange which can get a little tizzy and harsh. Vocals are expertly integrated with the bass and treble, never lagging behind or come off shouty and overly strident (other than the occasional sizzle in the upper registers). I personally find the K612 Pro to excel with non-aggressive music. Aggressive, energetic music can come off a bit unrefined at times, but the well composed, slower, more melodic music can really shine on the K612 Pro.

*Treble:*
Rating: Very Good

The K612 Pro's treble is generally balanced with the rest of the sound spectrum. The strength of a neutral balance proves itself worthy here. The K612 Pro is generally smooth in the extreme upper range, though it can at times sound sibilant and harsh. The treble does not lack detail, and contains just the right amount of shimmer and sparkle for most occasions. The treble flirts with between smoothness and brightness, and I wouldn't doubt it's characteristics changing depending on the tonality of the amp used. The treble can be on the grainy side, and can exacerbate the harshness found in some recordings. This is about the only real nitpick I have with the K612's signature, as everything else is top notch for the price.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Great

The soundstage is generally large and spacious. It doesn't stand out amongst soundstage monsters, but like most things associated with the K612 Pro, the soundstage can be summed up with one word: natural. It lacks the dimensionality and layering of the K712 Pro's soundstage, but among the many open headphones I've tested, the soundstage comes out as one of the best when factoring all the benefits.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Excellent

Large, natural soundstage paired up with a clear, linear sound signature and neither thin nor thick body of sound will equate to an excellent sense of directionality. Positional cues are detailed and accurate, making the K612 Pro one of the strongest headphones for competitive use. Aural wallhacking is entirely possible with the K612 Pro.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Great

Linear headphones with no particular emphasis in the lower range will almost always tend to sound clear and detailed, the K612 Pro being no exception. All manner of frequencies play harmoniously with other ranges, so you won't find any masking of details anywhere in the sound.

The K612 Pro's linearity works against it when listening to badly mastered recordings. If a track is harsh, the K612 will play it harsh. If you have a lot of flawed tracks, I'd advise you use some other headphones. The K612 Pro demands quality. Garbage in, garbage out.

*Amping:*
Essential

The K612 Pro is a higher impedance than it's 7xx siblings, and therefore demands more power to hit a moderate volume in comparison. For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic. Even with the Mixamp putting all it's power on game audio, the K612 pro hits moderate, not high volume levels.

I recommend an amp with a warm signature to offset the slight tizzyness in the upper ranges, though it isn't crucial as the K612 Pro isn't exactly fatiguing.

The K612 Pro's neutral signature is bound to change in tonality depending on the amp used, so matching the K612 to a proper amp is essential. Again, I recommend a warmer sounding amp to better match the K612's neutrality and shave off the slight harshness up top.

Personal Recommendation?

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes
As long as it's understood that it's not a bass driven headphone, everything will fall into place. That being said, the bass is neutral and natural, never light. The K612 Pro is an all rounder through and through, which will work for most media, whether it's fun gaming, competitive gaming, music, and movies. Just be warned that it isn't as proficient with fast or aggressive music. Everything else is quite excellent, and even fast/aggressive music is still respectable off the K612 Pro.

*Final Impressions:*

The K612 Pro hits well above it's price range, with one of the most balanced, natural sound signatures I've personally heard. The large, spacious soundstage, clarity, and gaming prowess make the K612 Pro a likely candidate for one of the best all rounder recommendations under $200. The hype is justified. The K612 Pro is the real deal.





Spoiler:  Fun: 7.25/10 (Good)



The K612 Pro isn't the most immersive headphone due to a fairly flat bass response that reaches deep down but isn't emphasized. That being said, the large soundstage lends itself well, and despite its linear bass, it does have some chops and can hit with authority if demanded. Unless you need extra bass for immersion, I highly doubt you'll find much to complain about in terms of fun factor.





Spoiler:  Competitive: 9/10 (Amazing)



The large, yet natural soundstage, clear, linear sound signature, and accurate positional cues make the K612 Pro a fine choice for competitive gaming and soundwhoring.





Spoiler:  Comfort: 7.75/10 (Very Good)



After you acclimate yourself to the downforce on the headband and moderate clamp, the K612 Pro can be worn for hours. Smaller heads may find the comfort to be great, even excellent.





Spoiler:  Overall: 8/10 (Great)



There really isn't much competition against the K612 Pro in it's price range. If you want a balanced, yet engaging headphone, the K612 Pro is an ideal choice.



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AKG K701 (K702)




update: my impressions are for an older K701 (7 bump version). New K701s (8 bumps on headband) MIGHT sound close, or the same as the Q701. Too many conflicting reports to say who is right, and who is wrong. All I know is that my old K701 sounded different enough from the newer Q701s.
Sells for around $250-300.


Spoiler: Review



Remember how I felt the AD700 did something to me? How it completely change my view on headphones and Dolby Headphone? Well, I got that same feeling again with the K701. In fact, I felt like god had given me the secret to just out right smite my enemies with the hammer of justice. The K701 to me, is pure, unadulterated, SMACKDOWN inducing OWNAGE. The very first time I used them (Modern Warfare 2), I went 2 straight 25-0 games in Free For All. I mean, holy smokes. The K701 was like wearing x-ray vision goggles for my ears. Depth, width, imaging, complete detail retrieval... it had it all. These to me, are the very vision of the perfect gaming headphone (with Dolby Headphone). I'd still place the overall positioning behind the DT770 Pro 80, and AD700, but it's on par with the HD598. We're talking about them being maybe a 9.9 instead of a 10 (which is what the 770s and AD700s are to me). Those two have NOTHING on the clarity and detail-whoring the K701 has. The bass is light, but present enough for it not to be anywhere near a complaint for me. It just works. You want my top pick for a purely godlike hardcore gaming headphone? The K70x is it. Now if only they were easy to drive. Believe it or not, the Mixamp does a good job driving the K70x, as long as you don't mix in voice chat whatsoever. Talking about leaving the game/voice balance completely on the game side. Once you nudge the balance away from game, the volume takes a steep dive, and you will note how badly the things need an amp.

Now I already know how volume =/= driving force, but for gaming with dolby headphone, you WON'T think about that or notice. Trust me, the Mixamp is enough for the K701 if again, you don't add voice chat. If you do, you WILL need to attach an amp to the Mixamp's headphone out, just to juice the K70x and voice chat audio. Yes, they do scale with good amping, but for the purpose of gaming, I don't deem it necessary, asides from when you're in need of voice chat.

Comfort-wise, quite polarizing. A lot of people have issue with the headband's bumps. I won't lie, they take getting used to. However, once you've beared with it enough, your head will get desensitized by that particular sensation. The bumps no longer affect me in the least. I find them decent to good. My main complaint now is that I wish the headband extended just a little more. I have to fully extend them to fit me properly, and it's quite noticeably felt, though it's not a real discomfort.





Spoiler: Fun: 6/10 (Decent)



There is SOME fullness to the old K701, though it is ultimately a sterile, and highly analytical headphone unless paired up with a very warm amp.





Spoiler: Competitive: 10/10 (Legendary)



The meaning of God-mode is strong with this one. If you want a headphone to pick apart details from everything around you, this one is pretty hard to pass up.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7/10 (Good)



The bumps may be a factor for a lot of people.



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AKG Q701




Sells for around $250 (more or less).


Spoiler: Review



Fun: I want to give them an 8 for fun, and they do deserve that most of the time, but there are times when you can tell that sub bass is lacking. Don't get me wrong, they can be bassy at times, but it's leaning more towards mid bass punch, rather than the ambient/mood setting bass that I prefer. Still, they can get very fun at times, and anyone looking for a well balanced can that can perform great overall, make these a great choice.

Competitive: I can't directly compare the Q701 and K701 for competitive use, but no one should pass these up for the slight decrease in score. They are essentially just as good, but the K701 lacks a warmth I deem necessary for overall use, so you end up really focusing on details, which is the main strength in the K701. The emphasis on detail retrieval is what makes the K701 just beastly. The Q701 is tuned for more enjoyment FWIH, though they are still detail monsters, just not as glaringly obvious. As far as positional cues and accuracy, they are every bit as good as the K701. Soundstage may be just a smidge smaller, but I attribute that to the fuller sound. Soundstage to me is bigger on headphones that lack a lower end, letting the space breathe more.

Comfort-wise, quite polarizing. A lot of people have issue with the headband's bumps. I won't lie, they take getting used to. However, once you've beared with it enough, your head will get desensitized by that particular sensation. The bumps no longer affect me in the least. I find them decent to good. My main complaint now is that I wish the headband extended just a little more. I have to fully extend them to fit me properly, and it's quite noticeably felt, though it's not a real discomfort.

I need to mention that while the Q701 is a better overall can than the old K701 to me, the difference is not night and day. They essentially sound VERY similar, with a slight tonal difference. The difference was definitely enough for me to say it's worth choosing the Q701. Need to clear that up, in case people are expecting a big difference. Think of the Q701 as a very slightly EQ-ed K701, with added warmth and very slightly more bass.

Like the K701, they desire amping when using voice chat. The sound also scales with amping, but isn't really necessary.

Update 3/5/2013: So it seems that the K702 Anniversary and Q701 are essentially the same sound-wise, the difference being attributed to the K702 Anniversary having memory foam pads that alter the sound. The new sound gives these headphones a warmer, thicker body, with bass that now meets the mids, for an even more balanced sound, though not as immediately airy as the Q701 pads.

If you happen to already own the Q701, you might want to invest on some K712 pads which will bring the sound to a new level, one I personally feel is superior in bass, balance, body, and fun. The K712 pads will still allow the Q701 to be very detailed, and amazing for competitive play, but with the added benefit of being more fun.

Which is better? Well, now that they're known to be essentially the same with different pads being what harbors the difference in sound, the K702 Anniversary still has the added benefit of a flat headband which is much more comfortable. They are also limited in quantity and aesthetics, if you are into that. Buying new, the Q701 + K712 pads will cost less than $300, while the Annie is ready to go at around $375. If you are brave enough to mod the headband on the Q701, you can also pay for a K601 headband which will be flat and more comfy than the stock headband. Still, I have seen a thread on the mod, and doesn't seem easy. This will further bump up the price to perhaps around the Annie's price anyways. If you have owned the Q701 already, you can basically renew them for around $100 for the Annie pads and K601 headband, which is probably more appealing and cost effective than spending $375 to replace the Q701 for the Annie, barring selling your Q701 to fund for the Annie as some have done.





Spoiler: Fun: 7/10 (Good)



More warmth, fullness, and bass than the OLD K701. Still slightly lacking a little in bass most of the time, but engaging in other areas.





Spoiler: Competitive: 9.5/10 (Amazing)



The Q701 is basically about 98% as good as the K701 for competitive use. The reason it gets a lower score is because it's not as competitive oriented as the K701, though ultimately, I would suggest the Q701 anyways, as it's more enjoyable all around and still god-mode inducing.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7/10 (Good)



The bumps may be an issue for some people, though I say they have to let their heads adjust to the feeling.



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Astro A40 (*headset*)
http://www.astrogaming.com/a40-audio-system-astro-edition




Sells for $249.99 (w/Mixamp 2013 Edition), $199.99 (headset alone)


Spoiler: Review



Before I get started, I really want to thank Skullcandy for getting in contact with me and giving me the chance to review the SLYR, as well as the A40+Mixamp 2013 Edition, and A50s on their Astrogaming side.... They have been very communicative, and understanding. Can't thank them enough.

Aah, things have come full circle. Back in 2009, the Astro A40+Mixamp bundle was my very first foray into headphone gaming. While they weren't what truly started the obsession as you all know it today (that goes to the AD700s, as they were a real eye-opener), the A40 was the first recommendation I was ever given. While I wasn't impressed by the bass light, hollow sound coming off the A40s, the Mixamp which became the most important purchase I had ever made in audio. So even though I didn't love the A40s, that bundle was the very beginning.

The current A40 Audio System comes with the Mixamp 2013 Edition, which brings in the addition of an Equalizer/preset button, to customize the sound on whatever headphone you have plugged in. The presets benefit the A40s greatly, as I will touch upon in the review. This review of the A40 will be when paired to the Mixamp 2013, compared to my other reviews which have been with the Mixamp 5.8. Makes more sense, as anyone interested in the A40 will more than likely buy it as a bundle with the Mixamp 2013 Edition. The differences in the Mixamps are that the 5.8 is slightly brighter and thinner sounding (a little clearer sounding overall), while the Mixamp 2013 Edition is warmer and thicker (which I find more beneficial to thin sounding headphones). The packaging is very well-crafted, and artistic. Astro surely knows how to present their items like no other headset company.

Upon first listen, I found that the A40s are quite warm and bass emphasized. A radical departure from the thin, cold, and hollow sounding old school A40s. The A50s are very bass heavy and muddy in it's innate sound signature, which the A40 thankfully isn't. Still, the A40s are not as balanced as I would have liked. That being said, the Mixamp's Media and Pro presets boosted the A40's clarity to really good levels, where I didn't find the A40s to lack in clarity for competitive gaming. The Core (flat) preset left the fun, general A40 signature, which worked quite well for non-competitive gaming. I dabbled in competitive gaming with the Core preset, and although not as detailed, was quite passable, so some people may not even need the other, clearer presets.

*Build Quality:*

Build-wise, I felt the parts used were pretty high quality. Astro made a pretty reliable looking headset here. Nothing looks or feels cheap. The plastic used looks high-grade, and looks like it can take a beating. I'd still handle it with care, however. The only area of 'weakness' that I'd be wary of, is the headband padding piece which sort of 'floats' in the center of the headband. Doesn't look like it'd be a problem, but it's the only area I can see that would probably be the first to give out with rough treatment.

The A40s swivel inward, so you can lay them flat if you need a breather. I find them very comfy letting them rest on my shoulders/neck area, which is rare compared to the vast majority of audiophile headphones which have huge cups, won't swivel, etc. The speaker tags covering the cups can be removed for a more open sound (more on that later). The boom mic is also removable, and can be placed on either cup. The cable is also removable. I attempted to use my own 3.5mm cables, but wasn't able to get any good sound. I believe it's due to the 'channels' being a bit deep into the cups to reach by standard cables, which only the Astro's supplied cables can reach properly.

Comfort:

I must have a ginormous head, as I have to wear the A40 fully extended. That, or they don't have enough give. On the opposite side of the size spectrum, the PC360 has enough extension to fit the head of a giant. I wish more headphones allowed that much freedom in size. The A40/A50 is comfortable, but they are at their limit with my head. It could use just a bit more extension, in my opinion. The pads are made of cloth/velour-like material, which is to say, they are quite comfy to my ears, and won't be heat building/sweat-inducing like typical pleather. I've felt better, but they do their job well.

*Accessories:*

Boom Microphone: Very high quality, and malleable boom mic. Astro has always had some very quality mics. Too bad, the mic can't be muted by flipping it up like the PC360, but it makes sense as it's removable, and the PC360's mic isn't.

Y cable (mic and audio): A must have for those wanting to use your own headphones and external microphone

Optical cable: A very nice, thick, and lengthy optical cable with a mini-optical side. Astro is stepping their game up here, as the old ones packaged in were a really thin, frail cable.

3.5mm male/male cable: For use with the mp3 input, though any 3.5mm male/male cable will work. Still, nice to have more.

Headset cable: The cable that plugs directly into the A40 and Mixamp itself and has the mic mute switch.

USB cable: To power the Mixamp as well as for PS3 voice chat. Any standard USB cable will work (I use an incredibly long USB cable).

2.5mm cable: For Xbox 360 chat. Plugs into the 360's controller to the Mixamp's controller input.

*Isolation/Leakage:*

In terms of letting sound in/out, I find the A40s to perform...decently. I do hear a fair amount of leakage, so I wouldn't crank these loudly if someone is near me sleeping. As far as keeping external noise out, I found that while using the A40s, it did a decent job overall. I wasn't truly bothered by external noise, though it's not particularly great at it. I blame the cloth pads, which sacrifices isolation/noise leakage protection for extra comfort/less sweat inducing.If you're like me and prefer to use the A40s with the speaker tags removed, isolation/leakage is even worse, as it functions more like an open headphone.

*Microphone:*

While I'm not too experienced with microphones, I didn't have any issues with my tests. It picks up my voice well. The microphone is long, pliable, and one of the better mics I have used. I don't see anyone having issues with this mic. The microphone is muted by the in-line mic mute switch on the Astro headset cable. The microphone can be placed on either side of the headset, in case you have a preference.

*Bass:*

The bass is a bit emphasized over the rest of the frequencies (easy to notice when using the A40 for music), but not as much as the A50s. Removing the speaker tags allows the bass to decay a little faster, which I find beneficial. The bass is strong and ever present, but not obnoxious. I personally prefer less bass on a gaming headset, as I feel headsets should be balanced all around. Too much bass muddies up details, which is never good in competitive gaming. The A40s are respectable in its details, even with it's bass. The Mixamp has the Pro and Media presets which make the innate bass emphasis a non-issue.

Mids:

The mids are a bit recessed and pushed back due to the bass via default, but the Pro and Media presets bring out the mids quite a bit. The A40's innate sound signature could use more mid forwardness, but I've heard much worse.

*Treble:*

I find the treble to be a strong suit on the A40s. It's neither too emphasized, nor too recessed. It's in a pretty balanced region for my taste. Not overly refined, but for a headset, it's in a good place.

*Soundstage:*

As a predominantly closed headset, with slight openness, I find the soundstage to be decently sized. Not as closed sounding as the SLYR, and not as spacious and large as the PC360. Removing the speaker tags adds just a hint more air, which is beneficial to the soundstage, though ultimately, the effect is minimal. It could use more depth and width to better aid the positional cues, but it's quite respectable for a partially open headset.

*Positioning:*

Due to the decent soundstage, positional cues are pretty good. I personally found positional cues to be pretty easy to pinpoint, but not on par with the better headset and headphones. For the purpose of all-around gaming, I doubt there will be much to complain about here.

*Clarity:*

The innate sound signature of the A40 is on the bass heavy, and warm side, and I found it a bit lacking in terms of details. However, the Mixamp's Media and Pro presets are quite detailed, greatly aiding the overall clarity. I also found clarity to be passable for gaming in the Core (flat) preset for fun gaming. It's no PC360, but the Mixamp's good presets boosts the A40's clarity to very good levels.

*Amping:*

I found the A40 needs no additional amping past what the Mixamp provides.

*Value:*

At $249.99 for the A40+Mixamp bundle, I find it to be an exceptional value. You are essentially paying $130 for the Mixamp, and $120 for the A40s. At $120, the A40 is a pretty good headset overall, which benefits a lot from the Mixamp. At $199.99 for the A40 alone, I would not recommend it, as it is in a price range with some truly amazing headsets/headphones like the PC360, HD598, Q701, DT990, etc.

*Final Impressions:*

The A40+Mixamp bundle is more than likely all that many gamers will ever need for all forms of worry free gaming. The bundle offers the ability to have both fun and competitive sound everyone can enjoy. The A40s are a solid headset overall with few shortcomings.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



The innate sound signature has lively bass, with an enjoyable balance of the other frequencies.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



Since people will undoubtedly pair the A40 with the Mixamp 2013 edition, the Mixamp has two presets (Media and Pro) that enhance clarity of details, greatly aiding clarity for competitive gaming. The positional cues/soundstage aren't the best, but they will perform quite well.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



A pretty comfortable headset all around. No problem wearing them for hours on end, with just a few occasional times of re-adjusting them. My only complaint is that it could use a bit more extension for larger heads, as I have to wear it fully extended.



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Astro A50 (*wireless headset*)
http://www.astrogaming.com/a50-wireless-system




Sells for $300


Spoiler: Review



Update: This review does not reflect changes made to the A50 via software updates. I reviewed the A50 when it was still incredibly new, and riddled with technical issues (though I didn't experience any). I assumed sound quality wasn't something you could fix with a simple update (after all, drivers have to be tuned in the factory), but Astro may have updated their presets to offset the A50's deficiencies and boominess.

Before I get started, I really want to thank Skullcandy for getting in contact with me and giving me the chance to review the SLYR, as well as the A40+Mixamp 2013 Edition, and A50s on their Astrogaming side.... They have been very communicative, and understanding. Can't thank them enough.

The Astro A50s. The first venture into fully wireless headsets for Astrogaming. Prior to the A50's inception, Astro released the discontinued, rare, and very sought out Mixamp 5.8. The Mixamp 5.8's main selling point was that any standard headphone or headset terminated with a 3.5mm plug could be attached to the Rx unit (receiver), essentially making them wireless. As you guys may know, I'm a humongous fan of the Mixamp 5.8, and it remains as my main gaming device when using my audiophile headphones. While it wasn't truly wireless (you still have your own headphone wires to deal with), it did remove the tether always necessary between the console and yourself in wired setups, making it a more elegant, and cleaner solution than anything else before.

Unfortunately, Astro didn't find the Mixamp 5.8 to be a big seller, and sought out other solutions. This is rather unfortunate, as with more improvement and functionality, future iterations of the Mixamp 5.8 could have been a huge success in my eyes. Ah well, them's the breaks. So now Astro steered their focus away from the 5.8 and towards fully wireless headsets, the first being the Astro A50s.

Upon opening the freshly designed package, you are greeted with the A50, the transmitter (that shares the same body as the Mixamp 5.8's Tx unit, though different inputs/functionality), parts of a headphone stand (which is VERY nice of Astro to supply), and the necessary cables (which I will edit into this review later, as I have a mess of cables from 3 products at the moment).

Now onto the headset itself. Upon first listen, I was immediately attacked by a relentless assault of bass. Seriously, it absolutely surprised the hell out of me. My prior experience with an Astro headset was the first gen A40s, which was anything but bassy. For a $300 headset, I EXPECTED a well balanced, competitive oriented headset with nowhere near as much bass as the A50s have. In truth, I was quite put off by it.

The A50 has 3 presets:

Preset 1: Media (Bass enhanced)
Preset 2. Core (Balanced/flat)
Preset 3: Pro (Enhanced details in the mids and treble)

I found the only preset worth using was the Pro Preset, which wasn't bass light to begin with, but at least I could actually hear the details, and it was quite decent sounding, though ultimately catering more towards fun than competitive, and not exactly sounding balanced. In my future review of the Astro A40s (w/Mixamp 2013 Edition), you can see Astro's presets CAN be useful and maintain some clarity. Just...not much here.

I'm not even sure whether to fault the presets, the fact that it's wireless, or if it's the A50's drivers themselves. I plugged in the transmitter to my PC in which the transmitter functions as a USB dac/amp (as well as microphone). The presets as well as Dolby Headphone are disabled, allowing you to hear the drivers work at their most natural state. Well, it seems to be the drivers. They are quite bassy. I am quite literally confused as to why Astro decided to use such bassy drivers for their most expensive gaming headset.

The A50s weren't down for the count yet, though. While 2 of the three presets left a really bad taste in my mouth, I still had one functional preset. Firing up CoD4 (and later on MW2) revealed that the A50s were decent gaming performers albeit on the disappointing side in terms of sound quality. It does perform fine when getting down to the nitty gritty, with a little more bass than I'd prefer out of competitive gaming cans. While the audio quality isn't great, positional cues and details were decent to good. The problem is that it's a closed headset, and everything sounds congested. The A40s sound more open, airy, and balanced, even with the speaker tags on. As far as the wireless capabilities, I find it to be great, where it takes quite a bit of distance for the A50's to drop the audio. I didn't notice and snap, crackles, or pops, nor did I get any hiss until you crank the volume quite a bit past the point where I'd say it's humanly necessary.

I'll get to the specifics in the break down.

*Build Quality:*

The Astro A50 shares the same body and aesthetic design of the A40s, which is to say, they look/feel great for a headset. There are a few key differences from the A40s.

The microphone is permanently affixed to the left earcup. The A40's is removable.
The cups are closed, and unlike the A40s, can't be removed for a semi-open design. They are now fully closed.
The right cup can be pressed on the sides to adjust voice/game volume, similar to the Mixamp's voice/game knob, with the exception that it's two hidden buttons you press, not turn. Once you go completely towards the game or voice side, a chime will play, letting you know you're at 100% game or voice.
On the rear of the right cup is where the power button, preset slider (EQ), and volume adjustment is placed.
On the rear of the left cup is where the mini usb input (for charging), and the 2.5mm controller input (for the 360 controller) is placed.
Build-wise, I felt the parts used were pretty high quality. Astro made a pretty reliable looking headset here. Nothing looks or feels cheap. The plastic used looks high-grade, and looks like it can take a beating. I'd still handle it with care, however. The only area of 'weakness' that I'd be wary of, is the headband padding piece which sort of 'floats' in the center of the headband. Doesn't look like it'd be a problem, but it's the only area I can see that would probably be the first to give out with rough treatment.

The A50s swivel inward, so you can lay them flat if you need a breather. I find them very comfy letting them rest on my shoulders/neck area, which is rare compared to the vast majority of audiophile headphones which have huge cups, won't swivel, etc.

*Comfort:*

I must have a ginormous head, as I have to wear the A50's fully extended. That, or they don't have enough give. On the opposite side of the size spectrum, the PC360 has enough extension to fit the head of a giant. I wish more headphones allowed that much freedom in size. The A40/A50 is comfortable, but they are at their limit with my head. It could use just a bit more extension, in my opinion.

The pads are made of cloth/velour-like material, which is to say, they are quite comfy to my ears, and won't be heat building/sweat-inducing like typical pleather. I've felt better, but they do their job well.

*Microphone:*

While I'm not too experienced with microphones, I didn't have any issues with my tests. It picks up my voice well. The microphone is long, pliable, and one of the better mics I have used. I don't see anyone having issues with this mic. The microphone is muted when placed upright,m similar to the PC360. Much better than having to press a button.

*Accessories:*

Headphone stand: also has space for the Tx unit.

Tx unit (transmitter): optical input, optical output (passthrough), USB input (to pair and charge the A50), 3.5mm auxiliary input (for future accessories, mp3 players will not work.)

Cables: Optical cable, 2 mini USB cables. One for powering the Tx unit. This one will also feed the voice chat from the PS3 (has to be hooked up to the PS3 directly). The other is for charging the A50s. 2.5mm male/male for Xbox 360 voice chat capabilities, and the only cable you will need to constantly have attached if using voice chat on the 360.

*Isolation/Leakage:*

In terms of letting sound in/out, I find the A50s to perform...decently. I do hear a fair amount of leakage, so I wouldn't crank these loudly if someone is near me sleeping. As far as keeping external noise out, I found that while using the A50s, it did a decent job overall. I wasn't truly bothered by external noise, though it's not particularly great at it. I blame the cloth pads, which sacrifices isolation/noise leakage protection for extra comfort/less sweat inducing.

*Bass:*

As mentioned earlier, the bass is overly emphasized and boomy for a high-end headset. It's enjoyable on the bass light preset, but ultimately too strong to truly make this headset compete with the other, more balanced headsets like the PC360, SLYR, AX720, and Astro's own A40s. On the flat and bass heavy presets, the bass is loose, boomy, and sloppy. It mucks up the detail quite heavily, making these presets worthless. I'm seriously wondering if the default presets are causing this extra boominess, but I feel that if/when the custom presets become available, a lot of bass reduction is needed to compensate.

*Mids:*

Due to the heavy bass emphasis, mids are drowned out a bit. The mids are distant, but not lost. For the purpose of gaming, the mids are fine, but ultimately not forward. The Pro preset brings out the mids a bit more, which is helpful. For the other two presets, the mids are heavily recessed.

*Treble:*

With the good preset, treble is crisp and bright. It can get sibilant, but not many instances where I see treble being problematic. Again, the Media and Core presets place too much emphasis in bass, drowning out everything that isn't bass.

*Soundstage:*

Somewhat closed in. It's not going to win anyone over based on size.

*Positioning:*

Due to the closed sound, and not so large a soundstage, positioning isn't great, but it's not bad. It's passable, and sometimes even good.

*Clarity:*

To repeat what I have already mentioned, clarity is decent on the Pro preset with sparkly details, albeit somewhat artificial sounding. Clarity is just plain lacking on the Core and especially Media presets. The sound turns overly warm and bass heavy, and all details are sucked out.

*Amping:*

No possibility of being amped, as the transmitter can only take a digital signal, with no way to attach an amp. The A50 is fairly sensitive in either case.

*Value:*

This one isn't hard. It's $300. That's a hard number to swallow. The main benefit of the A50 is that it's wireless. You do get everything you'll ever want in one headset, but sound quality is clearly lacking. I prefer the sound quality of the SLYR, A40, AX720, PC360 by a considerable margin. The A50s are left behind on sound quality. If sound quality is important to you, I'd advise you get something else. It's that simple. In good conscience, I can't recommend the A50s based off it's sound quality. For the purpose of worry-free wireless gaming, the A50s are good enough on the Pro preset if being untethered is absolute top priority, though you will be making some sacrifices for the benefit of going wireless.

*Final Impressions:*

The A50's quite honestly make a better stereo headset than a Dolby Headphone one. I find it enjoyable for music off my PC, but not so much for gaming w/Dolby Headphone. Whether it's the drivers, or the internal amp in the headset, or the presets, the A50s put out bass oriented, and muddy sound for gaming.





Spoiler: Fun: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



While the bass is strong, the only preset worthy to be used is the Pro preset, and ends up sounding heavily processed, which detracts from enjoying non-competitive games to their fullest extent. Bass adds to the immersion, but when you can't hear details, it sucks away from the fun factor, so I don't recommend the other two presets even if just for fun.





Spoiler: Competitive: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



Again, the Pro preset brings out the detail which helps quite a bit, but the headphone is still on the bass heavy side which detracts from focusing as much as I'd personally like. The soundstage and positional cues aren't great, and the sound overall feels closed in, but for most gamers, the A50s would be at least, passable.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



A pretty comfortable headset all around. No problem wearing them for hours on end, with just a few occasional times of re-adjusting them. My only complaint is that it could use a bit more extension for larger heads, as I have to wear it fully extended.



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Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus / Custom Game (headset variant)




Where To Buy: Amazon.com


Spoiler: Review



My full review of the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus can be found at Headphone.guru. Please go there for this, and my most recent headphone reviews.





Spoiler: Updated Microphone Impressions





The Custom Game is the headset version of the Custom One Pro that comes with a boom microphone attached to a cable, much like the V-Moda BoomPro. As you can hear on the mic test above, the microphone is quite natural and easy to hear.

It comes with with an extension cable that splits the channels into audio and mic channels for PC inputs.

If you purchase any standard 3.5mm cable that can fit on the Custom Game, you'd essentially have a choice between a Custom Game, and a makeshift Custom One Pro.






Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



The Custom One Pro's bombastic bass presence with the right sound slider positions, as well as its enveloping sound makes it a very immersive headphone that won't fatigue the ears.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



While it's clarity and detail retrieval are more or less decent at best, the 1st slider position/no ports open give the midrange and treble some needed focus. This gives the COP a good chance for competitive gaming. Paired with competent positional cues, the COP can holds it's own relatively well, though I'd recommend something more detailed if competitive gaming is a bigger priority over casual gaming.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.75/10 (Very Good)



The headband is fantastic, and the pads are super soft and plush, though heat inducing. Had the Custom One Pro come equipped with velour pads like most of the DT770s, the comfort may have jumped up a few points. I suggest ordering a pair of velour pads if you want a bit more comfort, though it is unknown what sonic changes may occur with the pad swap.





Spoiler: Overall: 7.25/10 (Good)



A safe recommendation for those who love to tweak and customize, and long term, fatigue free, easy listening.



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Beyerdynamic DT770 (Pro 80 ohm)




Sells for $180-200.


Spoiler: Review



This is a heavy hitter. Very impressive for non-competitive gaming, especially if you wanna feel like you're in a movie theater. The bass is considerably super powered, and would make this a bad choice for competitive gaming. However, the soundstage depth and width is surprisingly large for a closed headphone. These also have some of the very best sense of distance when positioning sounds that I have heard. Too bad it's too wild in bass for hardcore FPS gaming. The finer details are pretty much sucked out because of the bass.

Like the other Beyers on this guide, they require amping to truly bring out their sound quality.





Spoiler: Fun: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



This is easily one of those most immersive headphones I have used. The bass is incredibly full and fun, and the soundstage adds to the immersion.





Spoiler: Competitive: 6/10 (Decent)



Positional accuracy is fantastic, though the bloated bass makes it hard to pick up details.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7.25/10 (Very Good)



The clamp is a bit strong, and the pads aren't as soft as the amazing DT880/990 pads.



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Beyerdynamic DT880 (Premium)




Sells for around $250-300, though prices vary wildly by ohm version and depending on the day.


Spoiler: Review



Fantastic. Absolutely. Comfortable, durable, and prestigious. One of the best balanced signature I have heard. If you want a gaming headphone based off sound alone, the DT880 is a very good choice. It's so good, the sound works well in both hardcore gaming, and when just enjoying a game. The bass is quick, unobtrusive, but can get deep when the game calls for it (for example: Mass Effect 2, when you warp from one place to another, there is a low end rumble that sounds pretty **** epic on the DT880. Lovely. They do have one possibly major drawback. Think of yourself being in the center of a clock. Sounds with Dolby Headphone pretty much come from any direction relative to the clock.

The DT880s had a problem accurately depicting sounds that come from between 5 o'clock to 7 o'clock. Pretty much everything behind you. It actually sounds closer to the center, as opposed to sounding like it's actually behind you. With practice you can LEARN the distinct signature a rear sound makes with the 880s, but it will take you a split second to register that it's coming from behind you. That split second is enough to get you killed in an FPS game. Trust me. This is an issue with all models of the Premium DT880s, as I have compared with a few of my AVS friends who have owned different versions. They all arrived to the same conclusion.

If FPS gaming isn't a priority, don't skip these. They are wonderful for almost all uses.

Comfort-wise, they can be a hit or miss. One, the padding is pretty much the best I've felt on ANY headphone, ever. I love velour. The miss part is that the space for your ears to fit in isn't big and your ears will press against the padding protecting the drivers. It can be quite uncomfortable for some people. It didn't bother me, but I had another issue. The design has it where the pads will rest on my jaw, causing some pretty significant discomfort after a period of time. Hit or miss, really.

Like the other Beyers, they require amping to truly bring out their sound quality.

update: This listing is for the Premiums. I'd like to try the DT880 Pro 250ohm, as the slight difference in fit may give it enough of a difference both positioning and bass. I also want to mention that like all the Beyers on this guide, they require amping. Don't bother if you don't have a decent amp for them.





Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



The DT880 has a very balanced sound with some great, accurate sounding bass. It may not be as powerful as other, bassy cans, but I find the sound as a whole to be very impressive for fun gaming.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



The positional cues could be better. The depth of the soundstage lacks a bit compared to the DT990, though it's still an open sounding headphone.



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----------

Beyerdynamic DT990 (Premium and Pro)





Sells for around $180-$200 for the Pros, and $250-379 for the Premiums, though prices vary wildly depending on ohm version, and day by day price changes.


Spoiler: Review



These are GREAT for gaming. Probably easier on the ears than they are for music, as the treble's edge isn't as pronounced in Dolby Headphone mode. There is a greater soundstage, more fantastic bass impact than the 880s (super quick and tight, and unobtrusive still, but more lively), and the detail retrieval is on par, if not better than the 880s due to the more emphasized treble, and just as detailed mids (though the mids aren't as forward as the bass and treble). If you want a more fun oriented sound than the 880s have for gaming, the 990s are it. The bass isn't boomy, but more omni-present, which adds to the immersion. They also work very well for the hardcore gamers out there who wanna nitpick the finer details in games like Call of Duty. Imaging is excellent, and overall positioning is better than the 880s. The hole between 5 and 7 is no longer there, though it's still not as good at judging front and rear sounds as my other faves. However it does it well enough for me that I happily sold the killer K701s as I saw no need to own anything for gaming after the 990s at the time. The treble WILL be too much for some people, though I believe that is more of an issue with it's use in regular stereo. For gaming, I didn't ever feel it got up there...

Comfort-wise, they can be truly great a hit or a miss for some. One, the padding is pretty much one of the best I've felt on any headphone. I love velour, especially ones as soft as these. The DT990 is very lightweight, and it will feel like pillows caressing the side of your head. The miss part is that the space for your ears to fit in isn't big and your ears may press against the padding protecting the drivers.

update: My original review was for the 600ohm. I have also used the 32ohm, 250ohm, and more 600ohm versions, and I must say, they're too much alike to consider them different headphones. There may be slight differences, but unless you have them side by side, they're very much the same headphone with different amping requirements.

Comparisons of the 32 vs 250 (Premium and Pro) vs 600 ohm:

The 32ohm is a lot easier to drive in terms of volume, though they scale quite a bit with amping, to the point that I thought they were just shy of the 600ohm. The 32ohm I feel is recommended for those who just want an amazing headphone to pair up with something like the Mixamp and possibly a portable amp.

As for differences between the higher ohm DT990, the 32ohm is slightly less refined, and the soundstage is slightly smaller in stereo mode. It also has a dryness to the sound compared to the 250 ohm Premium. One that wouldn't change my thoughts on it. The 600ohm is slightly better overall to the 32ohm, but to make it better than the 32ohm, you need a pretty good amp to bring out that potential. For most of us, the differences don't justify the hassle. Don't overlook the 32ohm, especially if you're not getting an ideal amp for 600ohm headphones. The 32ohm gets you 95% of the way there, with the benefit of being able to sound very good unamped, and better driven than the 600ohm on all but really good gear. You will still want an amp to bring out their sound quality, like the other Beyers on this guide.

The 250ohm Premium is also just like the 320hm and 600ohm, but it has a darker tone, fuller bass, and less mids than the 32ohm and 600ohm. The differences again, are very negligible, especially if you don't have all 3 to compare. The 250ohm is also more refined than the 32ohm, with a bigger soundstage, and the sound as a whole has more body/weight, but again, the mids aren't as forward as the 32ohm or 600ohm. The difference yet again, are slight. The 250ohm is harder to drive than the 32ohm in terms of VOLUME, and only on certain sources will a portable amp be enough. To be safe, you'll want a desktop amp for the 250ohm.

The Pro 250ohm model sounds just like the Premium 250ohm model, but it has a bit more clamp so the bass is raised slightly, and soundstage is slightly lessened, (though still very similar to the Premium 250ohm, and still bigger than the 32ohm DT990). Because the Pro model is the cheapest, if you're looking to save some money and don't mind the retro look and stronger clamp, the DT990 Pro 250ohm gets you 99.9% the same sound as the Premium 250ohm.

The 600ohm is the most refined, and shares more in common with the 32ohm than the 250ohm, but just barely. The bass is tighter with very slightly less impact than the 250ohm. Like the 32ohm, the mids are ever so slightly more forward than the 250ohm. The soundstage is like the 250ohm, which is to say, slightly larger than the 32ohm. The 600ohm deserves some real good amping to make it worthwhile over the 32/250ohm variants. If you don't plan on getting something in the realm of $250+ for a bonafied desktop amp, get the 250ohm instead, though recent comparisons using the E09K have shown me that the 600ohm is still the better can (literally by a micro hair).

Now, when using a Dolby Headphone device (also using an amp to help drive the Beyers), I found them all to sound almost too similar. virtual surround positioning, soundstage, and tone were all incredibly similar. Made the differences even harder to discern than when listening to music, etc, without the Mixamp.

Because they're all so similar, I won't be giving them different scores. They're all within a hair of each other for fun, competitive, and obviously comfort.


Fun: 8.5/10 (Excellent)
Competitive: 8/10 (Great)
Comfort: 8.5/10 (8/10 for the 990 Pros due to stronger clamp)



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Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen (*headset*)




Under $300 (as of May 2018)
Where to buy: Amazon


Spoiler:  Review



The full review of the Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen gaming headset can be found over at Headphone.guru. Here's a snippet of the review about its gaming performance:

_Marketed for gamers all over the product page for the MMX300, you better believe it better deliver. The MMX300 is undeniably a very strong gaming headset with fantastic immersive qualities in its bass and soundstage.

The bass faithfully excecutes explosions and other ground shaking impacts with ease. This is one fun gaming headset.

The MMX300 may not be the most detailed headphone in terms of midrange focused sounds, but it is still good and beyond satisfactory here. Unless you are the most hardcore gamer who needs 100% focus on just micro details, I don’t see many complaints here especially for gaming needs.

Treble details is a highlight for nitpicky gamers looking for the sharpest of pindrops, which the MMX300 excels in. There is plenty of sparkle and vibrancy to be found.

The large soundstage paired with its amazing virtual surround capabilities, makes the MMX300 one of the best closed gaming headphones/headsets for accurate positional audio cues that I’ve heard.

The MMX300 can do all forms of gaming well, with a lean towards fun, casual gaming, though is more than capable as a competitive gaming headset. As it is, this is one of those “Multi-purpose” headsets, more than a specialty headset that is focused on one thing or another._





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*Drop x Hifiman HE-5XX*




Where to buy: *Drop.com*

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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Beyerdynamic T51i

$299
Where to buy: Amazon



Spoiler: Review



Take a look at my full review of the Beyerdynamic T51i (T51p with inline mic) over at Headphone.guru. I didn't extensively test the T51i with gaming.

All I can say is that for gaming purposes, the T51 falls in line with what I expect from closed, on ear headphones: Get it for music and stereo gaming. If you're leaning towards surround gaming in general, there are better choices at the price range for this purpose.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



Full bass and lively sound, with average, typical closed headphone soundstaging.





Spoiler: Competitive: 6.75/10 (Decent)



Full bass and less than stellar soundstage make it less than ideal for competitive gaming.





Spoiler: Overall: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



If you're looking for a great sounding portable headphone, not much can be said to take away from the T51's fun sound. For the purpose of gaming, better choices are available.





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*Creative SXFI Air*




$159.99 Air as of June 2019
*Where To Buy:* Creative

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW*



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Monster DNA On Ear




Monsterproducts.com
Sells for $199.95
Where To Buy: Amazon



Spoiler: Review



I'd like to thank Monster for giving me the opportunity to test and review the Monster DNA On Ear (the second DNA product sent in for review, the DNA Pro being the first). Placed next to the higher end DNA Pro, it isn't hard to see the difference in size and functionality. The DNA On Ear was released quite a bit earlier than the Pro model, and was tuned a bit differently as well. The DNA on Ear targets a more active demographic, with smaller, more portable, lighter, and (in my opinion), sleeker looks (despite a very similar aesthetic).

How did the DNA On Ear compare to other supraaural headphones, and more importantly, how did it compare to it's younger, bigger, and more expensive sibling? Let's find out...

*Build Quality:*

I received the Black Tuxedo DNA On Ear, which was visually striking compared to the straight matte black DNA Pro I had on hand. Color differences aside, most of what was said in the DNA Pro review holds true for the DNA On Ear, with two exceptions:

The metal hinges are on the cup side (as opposed to the DNA Pro's metal hinge being on the headband side).
The pads are smaller, supraaural (they rest on the ears), and circular in shape (not like the DNA Pro's triangular shape).
I'll paste most of what I said of the DNA Pro's build quality, bolding the edited parts to account for DNA On Ear's difference, as well as omitting DNA Pro specific musings:

The headband isn't generously or even moderately padded, instead using what seems to be a sweat-resistant rubbery material. If anything can be said of the padding, is that it should be very easy to keep clean. The adjustment mechanism doesn't have any markings/notches, yet feels very secure, so there shouldn't be any worries with the DNA On Ear losing your preferred size/extension (which I believe for many people is going to always be fully extended). They also collapse inwards to allow for a smaller footprint/easier storing/portability with its included travel bag.

The outer cup sports a mirror-esque triangular shape with the DNA logo embossed in the middle. The reflective 'triangle' is the only area on the headphone prone to fingerprint smudges. The rest is glossy black and prone to fingerprints, as with all manner of black and glossy things in the world. Moving on to the portion housing the drivers, it swivels/rotates just enough to to cater to different head shapes, but doesn't have a large amount of freedom in any direction.

The ear pads are of synthetic leather. They are soft, and airy (to the point that you can hear the air move if you compress the pads). The pads are dense enough to retain just enough of it's shape without flattening out and crushing your ears against the drivers. From what I can tell, they don't seem to be user replaceable.

Both cups house 3.5mm inputs for personal preference as to whichever side you'd like to use the audio cable on. The exposed side can be used to share the source signal (MusicShare™), whether it's with other headphones (which is great for A/B testing, assuming the headphone connected has a similar decibel level), or even something like speakers if you'd like. I'm generally used to headphone's cables being attached to the left ear cup (typical of single ended headphones), but you can be rebel against the norm and use the right side. Removable cables are always a plus, especially using the standard 3.5mm input, as it allows the user to use whichever standard audio cable they'd like. That being said, the two flat cables supplied are tangle-resistant, which is always a plus in my book. However, I'm not a fan of the grippy surface of the cables, which tend to snag on my clothing and other objects. There have been worse offenders in that area, however.

The DNA Pro's right cup snapped off the headband recently, which is really not a good sign for it's build quality. The DNA On Ear seems to be on par with the Pro's build, though the extension arms are thinner and likely to be less durable. However, I don't see this being a weak point on either DNA, with the weak point actually being the entry point of the headband, which I'll talk about in the Design Issues section.

*Accessories:*

The DNA On Ear comes with:

ControlTalk Cable for Apple - a flat 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable with an inline mic with volume buttons. One side ends in a right angle, perfect for pocket use.

MusicShare Cable - 3.5mm to 3.5mm flat cable. This is apparently for when you want to attach a headphone from the DNA to another headphone with a 3.5mm input. However, it's just a basic cable that you can use as your main cable, though it's pretty short (looks to be 3.5ft or so). Good thing is that the DNA On ear has a standard 3.5mm input, so you can use any 3.5mm cable.

Stylish Carrying Pouch - A very nice pouch that should keep the DNA On Ear from getting scratched while on the go, though not much else. It has a string to close tightly, as well as a clip/hook in case you're the type of person who likes to attach things to their pants.

Monster Cleaning cloth - Self explanatory. Good for wiping away the eventual fingerprints and smudges on the gloss.

All in all, I'd say the DNA On Ear comes well equipped with all the necessities, with the exception being a lack of 6.3mm adapter if you plan on attaching these to audio receivers/desktop amps.

*Comfort:*
Rating: Decent

The DNA On Ear has a few things going against it in terms of comfort:

It's an on ear design
Fake leather pads
These two things, paired up with a strong clamping force will almost always lead to a disaster, comfort-wise (Audio Technica ES7). Thankfully, the DNA On ear doesn't clamp strongly. It clamps with just the right amount of force to keep it secured to the head in most situations. That leaves you to contend with it's on ear design and pads. I have recently found out that an on ear design doesn't have to be uncomfortable or torturous, having experienced relatively comfortable headphones like the B&W P3, P5, Astro A30s, Sennheiser Momentum On Ear, and my favorite in comfort, the Ultrasone HS-15 (which is arguably one of the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn, period).

The DNA On Ear isn't going to win any awards based on comfort. Most times it will be respectable. I favor it over the DNA Pro's comfort any day of the week, though I'd say it's only a marginal (but noticeable) improvement. I can wear it for hours on end, and it won't bother me too much, but after awhile, my ears will start to feel raw from the pleather pads. In short, the DNA On Ear's pleather pads harm it's potentially good, or even great comfort. The positive aspects of it's comfort are it's incredibly light weight (no neck fatigue), and small cup dimensions, which makes the DNA On Ear a very good choice for using while laying down and relaxing.

Ironically, while small, the DNA On Ear reaches down to my ears without stressing the extension arms, unlike the bigger DNA Pro. I still have to use them with the arms fully extended, but it's a comfortable length, and it isn't constantly pressing down towards the top of my skull like the DNA Pro.

While the headband has very minimal padding, it's hardly worth mentioning, as the DNA On Ear's weight is mostly supported by the pads/clamp. The headband merely rests on my head, so the little bit of padding used is quite sufficient.

To sum it all up in terms of comfort, the DNA On Ear is decent overall. It could've been very good, even great if non-pleather pads were used. I have been using it as my main headphone for weeks (at the time of this review), and I didn't have much to complain about with the exception of my ears getting quite a bit sore/red due to the pads. Everything else was top notch in comfort.

*Design Issues:*

The entry part of the headband that meets with the extension arms is a definite point of weakness. With enough force, the top part of the headband can separate from the bottom part, potentially causing it to snap. I advise everyone to be careful when adjusting the size on your head, and when collapsing the headphone.

The headband is starting to split from the stress caused by the extension arm. This is the exact same thing that happened to the DNA Pro which later caused a breaking point, only it was on the cup side, as the hinge was on the opposite from the DNA On Ear. On my particular DNA On Ear this is happening on the left side only. I don't abuse my headphones (sans a few unfortunate ones like the PX100-II and KSC75), so seeing this problem occurring on both the DNA On Ear and DNA Pro is definitely worth noting.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Great

The DNA on Ear does a great job controlling noise leak, as well as keeping external noise out when in use. It's not the best at attenuating external noises when nothing is playing, but once the DNA On ear plays at a moderate level, the outside world won't be much of a distraction.

*Sound:*
Rating: Good

While I didn't expect the DNA On Ear to reach the same level of finesse and technical brilliance as the DNA Pro, I found the DNA On Ear to win me over for different reasons. It is undoubtedly more mainstream oriented than the DNA Pro, with a warm, bass-driven sound signature, without the upper range harshness associated with many mainstream headphones typical tuning. It's actually quite surprising how 'big' it sounds. It throws off a big sound, with a lot of body.

The DNA On Ear is bass first, mids second, treble on par to slightly behind the mids. This means it's warm, full sounding, and non-fatiguing. This is not typical of mainstream branded headphones which tend to have strong bass, a thin midrange, and sparkly, if a bit too much emphasis on treble, which borders on being too fatiguing.

The DNA On Ear will cater to a large demographic, particularly those who want bass, good mids, without it being too basshead-friendly. It's tuning doesn't scream reference, but it doesn't make it less enjoyable either. The DNA On Ear is for those who want fun, lively sound, without analyzing it's intricacies or lack thereof.

*Bass:*
Rating: Decent

The DNA On Ear's bass is full, and the most dominant part of the sound spectrum. However, that doesn't mean it specifically caters to bassheads. The bass isn't obnoxious, though it's level can impact the level of clarity in the mids and treble. The bass leads to a nice warmth added to the sound signature, without making the sound signature overly dark, muddy, or veiled (for example, the Nuforce HP800 which is a bit too bassy and overly smooth for my taste).

The DNA OE's bass is on the slow side, soft of note, and it can sound one-note-ish. On the downside, it could stand to be a bit tighter, sharper, faster, and more textured, which the DNA Pro definitely improved upon in comparison. The warm, full bass really lends itself to mainstream music and immersion for media such as action movies or games. The bass definitely makes the DNA On Ear a very fun headphone to use, despite it's flaws.

If you want tight, accurate bass, the DNA Pro is a better choice when it comes to Monster's offerings. If you want a full, heavy bottom end, the DNA On Ear can bring much satisfaction. Bear in mind, the flaws in the DNA On Ear's bass is much less apparent when listening to genres that aren't so reliant on bass. The DNA On Ear can sound particularly clean and well behaved on a regular basis, though if you have many bass heavy tracks, the bass bloom will make the DNA On Ear sound a bit unrefined and lacking in detail compared to other headphones with tighter bass.

*Mids:*
Rating: Good

The mids can be deemed to be 'on the level' by normal standards, whenever the bass isn't in full swing. The mids are warm, full sounding, and enjoyable. They can sound a hint laid back when bass is dominating a track, however. I sincerely believe the mids will be either good or ok depending on the track played, mostly due to the DNA's general bass bloom. Overall, I'd say the mids sound just south of neutral. Asides from the bass, I find the mids to sound relatively organic, (always a good thing).

*Treble:*
Rating: Good

The DNA On Ear's treble is easily what I could only describe as safe. It's neither overly sparkly or overly rolled off. It doesn't particularly shine or extend infinitely, and it doesn't completely soften up the upper range enough to consider it a smooth headphone in general. I personally like the treble, as it lends itself well to the vocals/mids in particular. The treble (along with the mids), is very reliant on the level of bass. Overall, I'd say it's on the soft/smooth side, though not veiled level smooth. If you're sensitive to treble spikes, the DNA On Ear will be a safe choice. If you don't like overly smooth or rolled off treble, the DNA On Ear may still be a safe choice. It lives in the happy medium between to two extremes, if just a hair on the smooth side.

*Soundstage:*
Stereo: Decent
Virtual surround: Decent

Keep in mind, I was NOT given the DNA On Ear to review for gaming in particular. A headphone like this would normally fall under headphones I'd use mainly for music and nothing else. However, I figured I'd go through my normal process of reviewing a headphone for all manner of things.

The DNA On Ear's soundstage was what I expected from a closed, on ear headphone with a general bass bloom: On the small side. The DNA On Ear's soundstage plays to it's strengths: Mainstream, bass oriented music. It's intimate, immediate, and somewhat in your face. Not something that will lend itself to gaming and spatial awareness.

For virtual surround gaming, I actually found it to work surprisingly well. At the time of this review, I paired up the DNA On Ear with a V-moda BoomPro microphone cable, and it became my main gaming head(set). I must say, while I noted it's lack of soundstage in general, it wasn't completely devoid of one, and the soundstage was just enough to give the positional cues enough space to perform well.

The positive aspect of its soundstage (in comparison to the DNA Pro) is that while it wasn't large by any means, it felt more circular in shape, whereas the DNA Pro had more oval shaped soundstage that favored width over depth.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Good

As stated earlier, closed, well-isolating, on ear headphones would throw all sorts of warning signs my way. Headphones like this wouldn't normally perform well for gaming based on my preferences of a large soundstage, and precise imaging and positional cues.

The DNA On Ear doesn't have a big soundstage, nor does it have the sharpest, most focused imaging. To my surprise, the positional cues were still relatively easy to locate, despite it lacking the clarity of the better headphones I've reviewed. While it lacked the clarity, accuracy, width, and spaciousness of the DNA Pro, the On Ear's soundstage came off as more circular, which benefits the transition from side positional cues to ones in the rear. It was easier to identify what positional cues were behind me in comparison to the DNA Pro.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Decent

The DNA On Ear's clarity is in all honesty, at the mercy of it's bass. As stated before, If a source isn't bass heavy, the mids and treble come off cleanly and evenly. The clarity's biggest enemy is the bass bloom which detracts a bit from the DNA On Ear's strengths in its tonal balance after the bass.

One other (and important) thing to note: The DNA On Ear likes to be played on the louder side, due to an increase in mid and treble clarity. While the bass may be big and prevalent, it is soft hitting, so it won't mask the mids or treble's increase in clarity, from what I have experienced. Since the mids and treble are generally even with one another, you won't gain unnecessary upper range harshness relative to it's vocals/mids.

If you tend to listen to headphones at a low decibel, the DNA On Ear will more than likely come off as a little muted, hazy and undetailed. This leads me to the conclusion that the DNA On Ear caters to the younger, mainstream crowd that likes their music on the louder side. Ear splitting levels are not necessary, but moderately high volumes seem to be the DNA on ear's sweet spot. At these volumes, the DNA On Ear sounds clear, balanced, and energetic.

*Amping:*
Not necessary

The DNA On Ear is one of the most sensitive headphones I have used in a long time, and sounds quite full and engaging off minimal amping. If anything, a portable amp will be more than enough to tighten up the sound a hair, but isn't necessary. If you absolutely must use an amp, I recommend on using solid state amp that is tight, fast, and on the neutral to cold side which would help offset the warmer/slightly smooth tonality of the DNA On ear.

*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes
While it isn't one of the most detailed and refined headphones I have tested/owned/reviewed, the tonality is enjoyable for a broad range of music, movies and games. It's full bass adds a ton of immersion for games and movies. The relatively well balanced mids and treble won't cause any aspect of those ranges to sound lacking, especially at moderately high volume level. It's performance for gaming wasn't a stand out, but it performed well enough to pass my tests. In short, the DNA On Ear is enjoyable for all purposes, though it isn't without flaws. It wouldn't be my first or second choice for either purpose, but if you happen to own the On Ear, you can rest easy in knowing that it can put in some good work for all media that doesn't bear a huge importance in detail retrieval.

The DNA On Ear's performance works well enough for me to be happy with it for all around use.

The DNA Pro is a more audiophile friendly headphone, with a cleaner, tighter, sharper, and more focused sound, with fantastic stereo soundstage and clarity. In direct comparison, the DNA On Ear will come off a bit bloated in the bass, slower, lacking in detail, and hazy. The DNA On Ear does have a more circular soundstage for gaming, which I actually do prefer despite it being smaller and having less clarity and precision. The DNA On Ear's bass may be a little more immersive, but since it isn't as refined as the DNA Pro's, I'd score the Pro's fun a bit higher overall.

To be quite honest, they don't share a similar sound. The DNA On Ear is more specialized and tuned for specific purposes, while the DNA Pro has a tonal balance and quality that can be used for all purposes. They are both quite acceptable as all rounders, with the On ear focusing on fun, and the Pro focusing more on refinement and quality.

*Final Impressions:*

The Monster DNA On Ear will undoubtedly resonate more with the mainstream/casual demographic over the audiophile community. The DNA On Ear has big bass that isn't overly dominant, but the heart of it's sound nevertheless. The mid and treble sections are well presented after the bass. The DNA On Ear will be for those who want an attractive, very portable headphone with an upfront presentation without the fatigue of overly aggressive treble. What it lacks in refinement, it makes up with good immersion, good performance all around, and a sound that anyone can enjoy.

If Monster can manage to improve the build quality and lower the bass emphasis a tad, they can have a real winner with a future version of the DNA On Ear. As it stands, the DNA On Ear is a good headphone, though flawed. Most of the groundwork is done. Monster just needs to implement those improvements stated, which will turn the DNA On Ear not just to a good headphone...but a great one.





Spoiler: Fun: 7.5/10 (Very Good)



I enjoy the DNA On Ear for all purposes, especially fun gaming and action movies. It's rounded soundstage allows some very good positional cues for added immersion. The potent bass adds a lot to the immersion, but it does take away from it's clarity a little bit.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



The DNA On Ear doesn't have a tough time placing rear sounds, which is always a plus for competitive gaming. The bass's emphasis can detract a little from the good mids and balanced treble, and the imaging isn't as sharp as its younger, more proficient sibling, the DNA Pro. That said, the DNA On Ear is still one of the better closed headphones I've used for all forms of gaming, due to it's mostly all purpose sound signature, and ease of rear positional cues.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6.75/10 (Very Decent)



The comfort is hit and miss. It's incredibly lightweight, the clamp hits the sweet spot between too loose and too tight, the headband is a complete non-issue, and the pads are very soft. The problems mainly lie after prolonged use, when the pressure of the pads resting on the ears may make them quite sore and cause some noticeable discomfort.





Spoiler: Overall: 7/10 (Good)



The DNA On Ear is among the very few on ear headphones I actually enjoy, and certainly one the best on ears I've reviewed.



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----------

Monster DNA Pro

monsterproducts.com
MSRP $299.95
Where To Buy: Best Buy Exclusive ($279.99)



Spoiler: Review



I'd like to thank Monster for giving me the opportunity to test and review the Monster DNA Pro. Unless you've been living under a rock, Monster should be one of the most recognizable names in the headphone industry, if not THE most well known. I won't bore you with their history, since they should be a common household name by now. Monster can take a humongous chunk of credit as to why there has been a huge interest in the headphone market the past few years. Over the past few years (now completely separated from the Beats name), Monster has garnered a lot of positive attention from audiophiles with their release of the Turbines and Miles Davis Trumpet IEMs. Having proven their worth amongst audiophiles for their IEMs, they then made a move towards the portable/full-size market with their release of the DNA On Ear headphones, and now the DNA Pro Over Ear.

Having only previously owned the Monster Turbines IEM in their headphone line, I wasn't sure what to expect out of the DNA Pro. The Turbines, while definitely great sounding, were a bit too big for my ears, so I didn't keep them long enough due to personal issues with comfort (though to be quite honest, I find almost every IEM uncomfortable). How did the Monster DNA Pro fare with me? It surely had an uphill battle as a closed AND faux-leather padded headphone, but it wouldn't be the first time I've given a chance to headphones of that particular ilk. Personal bias towards open-backed/cloth padded headphones aside, I feel any and every headphone deserves a chance to prove themselves, regardless of make and model.

On to the DNA Pro...

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Very Decent

I received the matte-black DNA Pro, which I personally found aesthetically pleasing if a bit contemporary, urban/street styled. I generally prefer a classy approach, but for the general consumer, I feel they used the right amount of styling. Not so sure on the other colors, which are a bit too loud for my taste. I'm very thankful to have received the most 'normal' of all DNA color schemes. The DNA Pros are built mostly of plastic, save for some visible metal areas on the hinges. The plastic feels somewhat durable, though I feel that the exterior plastic piece with the 'DNA' label may be a weak point if some accidental stress is put on the size adjustment mechanism. It may potentially cause the that piece to separate from the inner piece with the L/R markings. Under normal use, I don't see this being an issue, but freak accidents aren't impossible. I have spotted some DNA Pros at my local Best Buy stores, and almost every single one (yes, all of them) had broken pieces on or near the DNA labelling. I have a feeling people are much too abusive with demo units, and I don't expect this to be a normal occurrence. Still, some careful handling should apply.

The headband isn't generously or even moderately padded, instead using what seems to be a sweat-resistant rubbery material. If anything can be said of the padding, is that it should be very easy to keep clean. The adjustment mechanism doesn't have any markings/notches, yet feels very secure, so there shouldn't be any worries with the DNA Pros losing your preferred size/extension (which I believe for many people is going to always be fully extended). They also collapse inwards to allow for a smaller footprint/easier storing/portability with its included travel bag.

The outer cup sports a mirror-esque triangular shape with the DNA logo embossed in the middle. The reflective 'triangle' is the only area on the headphone prone to fingerprint smudges. Thankfully, the rest is matte black and resistant to fingerprints. Moving on to the portion housing the drivers, it swivels/rotates just enough to to cater to different head shapes, but doesn't have a large amount of freedom in any direction.

The ear pads are of synthetic leather. They are soft, and airy (to the point that you can hear the air move if you compress the pads). The pads are dense enough to retain just enough of it's shape without flattening out and crushing your ears against the drivers. The DNA Pro is marketed as over ear/circumaural, though on the smaller side, and may potentially cause the DNA Pro to fit as a supra-aural headphone. For my medium-sized ears, it fits just over my ears with some work. Not impossible to fit over ear unlike the Sennheiser Momentum (which I argue has a circumaural fit for people with freakishly small ears...or Hobbits). From what I can tell, they don't seem to be user replaceable.

Both cups house 3.5mm inputs for personal preference as to whichever side you'd like to use the audio cable on. The exposed side can be used to share the source signal (MusicShare™), whether it's with other headphones (which is great for A/B testing, assuming the headphone connected has a similar decibel level), or even something like speakers if you'd like. I'm generally used to headphone's cables being attached to the left ear cup (typical of single ended headphones), but you can be rebel against the norm and use the right side. Removable cables are always a plus, especially using the standard 3.5mm input, as it allows the user to use whichever standard audio cable they'd like.

That being said, I find the tangle-resistant coil cable supplied to be fantastic. It's around 6 feet, with the cable being straight up until the coiled end which can be stretched to add around 2 extra feet or so (by my guesstimation). The cable feels durable, with a nice amount of thickness, and without the horribly grippy texture found on other cables that love to snag on everything. Easily one of my favorite stock cables out of all the headphones I've reviewed/tested. It terminates into a standard 3.5mm plug with a thin barrel, which is appreciated as it should put less stress on 3.5mm jacks. I measured the cable's resistance at around 0.7ohm, so there really isn't any reason to replace it based on resistance alone.

*Accessories:*

The Monster DNA Pro comes with:

3.5mm to 3.5mm tangle-resistant coil cable
ControlTalk® cable for Apple devices (one wasn't included in this review sample)
Travel pouch (very high quality)
Monster Clean Cloth
6.3mm snap-on adapter
*Comfort:*
Rating: Decent

This is one aspect of the DNA Pro I wish I could be happy with. My problem being that it simply doesn't extend far enough on my head. The DNA Pro has to be fully extended to reach my ears in the proper position, and at that point, the headband is pushing down against my skull, enough to leave a dent on my head after a brief session with it on. The headband has a lot of wasted horizontal space that I could use to allow the cups to reach lower (without needed as much extension), but due to their plastic design, I wouldn't be able to bend it in a more cone shape, as it wouldn't retain the shape. If Monster had allowed for around an inch more extension in the arms or had a more arch on the headband, a lot more people would be covered. As it stands... it fits me, though not ideal by any means.

Lack of headband extension aside, the DNA Pro is a bit clampy, which I assume was a choice to allow for a strong seal and secure fit at all times. The DNA Pro is not a headphone that 'disappears' on your head. The ear pads are relatively comfortable, with a few caveats. While they are soft, they do cling to the skin and isolate a bit too well. It traps heat, and the addition of clamp doesn't exactly help matters. If the DNA Pro didn't clamp as tightly, I could see the pads being one of the most comfortable synthetic-leather pads I've ever tested. They aren't removable from what I've personally seen, so no easy way to clean the pads or replace.

The DNA Pro is relatively light weight, and the cup's dimensions allow it to be used comfortably while lying down. Assuming it doesn't clamp so tightly on your head, it'd make a good 'laying down' headphone.

*Design Issues:*

The only real issues I have with the DNA Pro is:

Could use more extension for bigger heads
Ear pad diameter could stand to be wider/taller for those with bigger ears. They are also not easily removable.
More arch on the headband as there is a lot of waste headband real estate
*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Fantastic

This is one of the areas the DNA Pro absolutely excels in. It is among the very best passive noise cancelling headphones I have personally heard, if not THE best. Once the music plays, you'll be hard pressed to hear most external noises. It also keeps sound in even at high volume levels. I don't see how anyone would complain about isolation with the DNA Pro.

*Sound:*
Rating: Great

The first thing I test with headphones is music, and from the moment I put on the DNA Pro, it was an instant success. People may be adversed to 'popular/mainstream' headphones, but I will say here and now, that selling the DNA Pro short, is a complete and utter mistake. It is a FANTASTIC sounding headphone, so much I'd say it's probably my favorite voicing of any headphone I've heard for my preference in music. Yes, it even outdoes my previous fave: the Philips Fidelio X1's tonal balance. I haven't had a chance to listen to the Philips Fidelio X1 in a while, but the DNA Pro reminded me a lot the X1 in a closed version it's sound They are both energetic and fun, yet in the realm of being well balanced. The one thing I do remember well is the X1's bass, being impressive for an open-backed design, yet being a bit too bloated at times. I'm personally a bit sensitive to mid bass bloat, and get fatigued by an abundance of it, even by headphones with moderate mid bass. The DNA Pro maintains a somewhat lively bass response, with excellent control that doesn't blanket the midrange, nor causes any discomfort.

*Bass:*
Rating: Great

As previously mentioned, The DNA Pro's bass is lively, as well as tactile, yet well controlled. It's not the the final word on speed and attack, instead choosing a happy medium between well-rounded fullness, and restraint. It's in the realm of balanced and moderately emphasized. The bass seems reliant on how well the DNA Pro seals on your ears. I have heard complaints that it rolls off a bit. I believe that is more of a fit issue, and not actual frequency response. To my ears, the DNA Pro's bass extends quite low, and I've never felt it lacking by any stretch of the word. It's surprising to me, as the DNA Pro doesn't exactly fit my head perfectly, yet I have zero issues with getting a good seal on the pads. As mentioned before, the pads aren't exactly the widest, and I could see an issue arising for those with larger ears, which may be breaking the seal enough to lose some bass.

*Mids:*
Rating: Good

The DNA Pro's mids are well defined, tight, and lean. Lean as in it doesn't take up as much headspace as some other headphones with a thicker sound (i.e. MA900, HD650, LCD2). It isn't the most impressive in terms of vocal warmth and intimacy, instead choosing to define them cleanly rather than making them forward. The mids slightly give way to more clarity in the upper ranges and fullness down in the bass. The mids however, are not blanketed by either bass or treble. They're nicely integrated, just not the main focus. I feel female vocals are a bit more impressive than male vocals on the DNA Pro. Female vocals tend to be a problem area on a LOT of headphones, so this is surprising and welcome.

*Treble:*
Rating: Great

It's been a while seems I've heard a headphone with some good sparkle and energy up top, and the DNA Pro has left me feeling quite impressed in this regard. Having been used to headphones that generally slope downwards and iron out the rough edges of an energetic upper range, I wasn't quite prepared to go back to a headphone with a tilt upwards in treble. I was expecting some ear fatigue caused by treble emphasis. The DNA Pro managed mostly quell my fears, with a clean treble presence that I have been missing of late. There is some grain up top, but I felt that it wasn't as prevalent as some other treble tilted headphones. The DNA Pro's treble is possibly one of the best examples I've heard to date. The few times I felt the DNA Pro to be harsh was few and far between, which is more than I can say for many headphones with treble this well extended.

*Soundstage:*
Stereo: Great
Virtual surround: Good

Here is where I was expecting the DNA Pro to suffer. Badly in fact. Headphones that seal this well, and clamp tightly don't tend to leave me impressed. Yet, again, the DNA Pro threw out a REALLY nice soundstage for a closed headphone. I mainly test soundstage in gaming, lately in both stereo and in virtual surround. As I played some games on my PSVita, I was incredibly impressed by how spacious the DNA Pro's sound appeared to be. Aided by the lean and tight spatial cues, there was a nice amount of air in between audio cues. The stereo separation can be summed up with one word: Stellar.

The soundstage was less impressive in Dolby Headphone virtual surround gaming, in part due to the added warmth Dolby headphone tends to impart on headphones. Closed headphones tend to suffer due to this warmth, and the DNA Pro is no exception. That being said, I was getting some inconsistency when it came to gauging the soundstage on the DNA pros. In some instances, the DNA Pro had open-like soundstage, yet in others, it sounded boxed in and unimpressive. Due to this, I'll say the DNA pro's soundstage is good overall, and even great at times, especially in stereo.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Very Good

As usual, soundstage and positional cues tend to go hand in hand, and while I felt the soundstage can be inconsistent at times in virtual surround, the positional cues were not. They were always quite precise to my ears, and clearly defined. Better defined than even the Sony MA-900 in direct comparison, which sounded hazy in comparison. The inconsistent soundstage would at times, box in the positional cues, making rear cues to sound less convincing.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Great

It has been awhile since I've heard a closed headphone sound this clean and energetic. It was definitely a surprise to my ears. As mentioned before, the bass isn't the fastest or tightest, though it stills hold great control of itself. The mids are clean, lean, focused and sharp. The treble holds plenty of air without becoming too edgy or grating. This all adds up to a fun, yet clean sounding headphone.

*Amping:*
Not necessary

I find the DNA Pro to be quite sensitive, and unless you like a particular flavor an amp adds, I don't see it really needing one. The DNA Pro sounds magnificent with minimal amping, everything else being icing on a pretty delicious cake.

*Personal Recommendation?:*

Movies, Music, In General ? Yes
Gaming? Maybe
I find it to be the best alternative I've personally heard to the Mad Dog for those looking for another well isolating/closed headphone with a bit more fun/energy. At around $280, if you want a well isolating headphone that controls noise like a world champion, easy to drive, portable, and stylish, the DNA Pro is an attractive option. If you happen to own the X1 and want something similar in closed form, the DNA Pro is quite close, from what I personally hear. I'm a bit adamant to recommend it as a GAMING headphone, however due to inconsistent soundstage which may make the DNA pro lag behind the better competitive gaming headphones.

*Final Impressions:*

I'm heavily leaning towards really loving the DNA Pro. They sound absolutely fantastic, with one of my absolute favorite sound signatures, tonal balance, and audio fidelity. In terms of a closed-back headphone, there truly isn't much more I can ask for that the DNA Pro doesn't happily provide. It's got great sound quality, amazing noise isolation, and demands very little power to sound fantastic.

My gripes with it are almost entirely on it's build quality, mainly how it ties directly to comfort (or lack thereof), due to strong clamp, lack of headband extension for bigger heads, synthetic-leather pads (which are admittedly comfortable for faux-leather, but still lacking in comfort in comparison to cloth/velour pads). These are personal gripes, and your mileage may vary. I expect those with smaller heads may find no real issue with the DNA Pro's comfort.





Spoiler: Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)



If you're in the market for closed headphones and want a fun tonality without sacrificing quality, I fully recommend the DNA Pro. Yes, it's that impressive.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



Great at times, but decent in others, I'll average the competitive aspect to be good. The clarity of sound cues is stellar, though with the soundstage being a bit closed in at times, I can't say it'd be a replacement to the more competitive open-backed headphones, even if some of them may not match the DNA Pro in definition.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6.5/10 (Decent)



Personally, I find them to be passable at best due to the tight fit that forces the headband against my skull, strong clamp, and faux-leather pads which trap heat. Those with smaller heads may have better luck in finding them more comfortable.





Spoiler: Overall: 8/10 (Great)



To say that the DNA Pro was a surprise is an understatement. The DNA Pro is a testament to Monster's constant evolution and growth. Had it been a bit more comfortable and durable, it would've easily been placed among my personal favorite headphones, period. While it may not particularly excel at gaming, it has everything else completely under its control. If they manage to build upon the winner they have in the DNA Pro, I believe the Monster name will not only stay popular in the general consumer market, but in the audiophile market as well.



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----------

Philips Fidelio X1

Sells for $250-$300


Spoiler: Review



The Philips Fidelio X1. The flagship headphone in the Fidelio line, and quite possibly the final headphone made by Philips. If it is indeed the final headphone before Funai takes over, Philips sure went out with a bang.

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Fantastic

The X1 is a physical masterpiece in almost every way. Elegant and sleek design paired with a well machined construction puts headphones costing thrice as much to shame. The Fidelio X1 is easily the best looking full sized headphone I have ever laid eyes upon, with no tradeoffs in actual quality. Even the plastic used on the headphone doesn't feel like plastic, but something more akin to ceramic.

The cups are made of said plastic, with a wonderful feel of solidity, which connects to one another via two wires (like the AKG K70x line) encased in metal and strong leather. The open-backed design of the cups are protected via a beautiful mesh pattern/grill, possibly the prettiest of all headphones I've seen. It is tightly knit, which doesn't seem as open as something like the HD650's outer grill, yet it is still undoubtedly and utterly open. The left cup has a 3.5mm input for the audio cable, which makes it convenient, and easy to remove/replace/swap cables. As with all 3.5mm inputs, you'll want to be very careful when attaching/removing the cables.

The headband is a suspension type (again, like the AKG K70x line), which is very soft, and generously padded. It is quite large, covering a lot of head space wherever it rests. Ultimately, it is incredibly comfortable, though it is a bit problematic for larger heads, which I'll explain later.

Next, we have the ear pads. The pads are made of memory foam, covered in velour. This makes them incredibly soft and a bit more breathable in comparison to leather/pleather pads. It isn't as dense as the K702 65th Anniversary pads, so it doesn't retain quite the same amount of memory foam properties. This makes them seal a little less through the pads, but doesn't trap as much heat as the AKG memory foam pads. They are quite thick, so those sensitive to ears being pressed against the driver enclosures shouldn't have an issue with the X1's pads.

On to the cable. The cable is quite possibly... scratch that, it IS the most beautiful stock cable I have ever seen on any headphone. It's long, cloth covered, thick, and soft/bendable without retaining cable memory. It terminates into a very nice 6.3mm (1/4") jack. As amazing as it looks... you will want to swap it for another cable, which I'll explain later.

*Comfort:*
Rating: Excellent

To put things as simple as possible, the Fidelio X1 is one of the most comfortable full-sized headphones you will ever wear. While it isn't the lightest headphone, it certainly isn't the heaviest, and whatever weight the X1 has is expertly spread around by the suspended headband, so it feels lighter than it really is.

The huge cups and pads allow the ears to fit inside comfortably, and the soft and airy velour padding keeps heat from building up compared to leather/pleather pads. No stickiness, and less heat is always a good thing in my book. The X1 could still stand to have more extension to allow bigger heads to fit with zero issues, as even with the post bending mod, the lack of extension will make the X1 press the headband down to your head. It's mostly harmless as the headband is so big and well padded, but it is worth noting.

Also worth noting is that the pads may be itchy at first. With some headtime, the itchiness will subside. Just give it time.

*Design Issues:*

One of the biggest issues on the X1 (and there are only two real issues), is that the ear pads aren't removable. This makes it quite problematic to clean or replace. It is held in by four screw-like protrusions, and a strong adhesive. This makes it a quite a commitment to remove and place back on. Considering the masterful design of the X1, the ear pad assembly comes off as archaic and incredibly cumbersome. You may have to contact Philips for a replacement (possibly for a price) once the pads start wearing out. Problem there being that Philips quite possibly won't be in the headphone business soon, so there may not be a legitimate method of replacing the pads. You will definitely want to baby the pads, and try to keep them as clean as possible at all times. Some tape to remove particles/dust/etc, and not using the X1 when you're dirty.

The second (though less problematic) issue, is that the stock cable (as amazing as it looks and feels) has a very high resistance (around 1.8ohm). That is unnaturally high for an audio cable, and it does cause a negative effect to the sound quality. Compared to audio cables with a typical resistance of around 0.5ohm, the stock cable makes the sound slightly congested, and slightly undetailed, which makes instruments sound a little hazy and blended into the background. Replacing the cable will immediately tighten up the bass, and better define instruments, and other sound effects clearly in comparison. The difference isn't vast, but it is there, and can be noticeable with the right material. Replacing the cable isn't costly, and you can replace it with something equally sturdy such as the Mediabridge audio cables sold on Amazon for $10 or less for an immediate improvement. The only positive aspect of the stock cable's sound is that it's warmer, and less fatiguing, due to the softer, less defined sound.

The third issue with the X1 is that the headband simply isn't made for larger heads. The space between the suspended headband padding and the leather covered top that connects the cups is quite small, and once you put the headphone on, the suspended headband will crash into the top piece, not allowing clearance for larger heads. There is a simple solution to this, and that is to bend the top piece into more of a cone shape, to allow more clearance. There is a lot of wasted horizontal space by default so bending the headband allows this unused space to be occupied by the suspended headband if needed. The top band is all metal and leather, and won't break, so there shouldn't be any worry about damaging the headphone with this mod.

*Accessories:*

The X1 comes with a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter (1/4" to 1/8"). As with all 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapters, I would advise on NOT using it, and instead getting a Grado adapter cable or something like it, as these typical adapters can put some strain on 3.5mm inputs. The X1 also come with the audio cable and a clip attached near the 6.3mm plug which can help control the length if need be.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Mediocre

As an open backed headphone, you can't expect much isolation/noise control. However, I don't find them to leak as badly as other open backed headphones, so with moderate volumes, you can get by without bothering too many others. Even so, don't plan on using these to great effect if you need to control leak or keep external noises from seeping in.

*Sound:*
Rating: Excellent

The Fidelio comes out swinging. My first thought when I heard the X1 was something like "This is exactly what I have always wanted out of an open backed, bassy headphone." The X1 has an open, spacious, lively, energetic, yet controlled sound. It is tonally on the warm side due to the bass, but verges on neutral. The treble gives the X1 a nice amount of energy despite most of the treble actually being on the smooth side. The X1 to me is at odds with itself. Not in a bad way, mind you. By odds, I mean that it doesn't know if it wants to be a basshead headphone, or an audiophile headphone. Both? That sounds about right. A basshead/audiophile headphone. Let's get into the specifics...

*Bass:*
Rating: Great

The X1 is a rare breed of headphone, particularly in it's bass. There are very, very few headphones that can be this open, yet retain so much energy in it's bass which more closely resembles something coming out of a sealed design. It has a lot of growl and punch, but not overly so like most bass heavy, closed headphones. Open-backed headphones tend to roll off in the bass quite quickly, losing energy, impact, and are too quick to decay. The X1 is among the elite few dynamic headphones which does away with that stereotype. Other dynamics with potent bass would be the Sennheiser HD650 and Beyerdynamic DT990, and neither reach as low as the X1, nor fill up the virtual space in the same way. The X1 has a broader range in bass than the 650 or DT990, and fits somewhere between in decay and speed. The 650 is more neutral in it's bass, while the 990 is a bit stronger in the mid bass, but rolls off faster, not allowing it to reach the lower depths as well as the X1. Ultimately, the X1's bass is more fleshed out than the other two.

That being said, the bass can at times come off a bit undetailed and lacking in texture and layering. Perhaps even one-note-ish. To me, the X1's bass sounds like it was pre-boosted from a neutral headphone, and it sounds as if Philips pushed the X1's driver to it's limit in the bass, and adding any more would probably strain the drivers causing them to distort badly. This is just an assumption though, and overall, the presentation of bass on the X1 is among my favorites on any headphone. Just note that I feel that it can stand to be more textured, refined, and overall improved upon.

Mids:
Rating: Very Good

The mids on the X1 are pleasantly intact, despite the X1's bass heavy nature. The mids are actually quite linear and neutral in tone, with no crazy drops or rises all the way up to the treble. It's neither forward nor truly recessed, staying in place at all times, only slightly trailing behind the abundant level of bass. The mids are neither weak nor special. They are happy to be present in the mix at all times, only slightly getting masked by the bass at times. Such is the nature of virtually all bass heavy headphones, and the X1 is among the best ones at keeping the mids intact. Due to the open and spacious sound of the X1, the mids are never intimate, nor are they thick or organic like the HD650, LCD-2, and K702/65. In the end, you can say the mids are good in that they are detailed, but not special. They are definitely more upfront than the DT990, which was something I personally wanted out of a DT990 successor (which is how I see the X1).

*Treble:*
Rating: Great

The treble on the X1 is generally smooth, with slight peak at 10khz, which adds a nice amount of sparkle and energy, keeping the X1 from sounding completely warm or smooth like the HD650, LCD-2, and K702/65. The treble is well in line with the mids other than the slight peak at 10khz, and massive drop off after 10khz. Said drop off keeps the X1 from being sibilant or fatiguing overall, but it does gloss over quite a bit of treble detail.

Overall, the drop off in treble after 10khz isn't problematic, as the X1 still exudes plenty of air and energy, but it is worth noting. Also, the rise at 10khz can rear it's head with certain material and can be a little tizzy at times, keeping the X1 from being completely fatigue free. Overall, it's a minor gripe, and I feel it to be a very small, necessary evil to allow the X1 to sound as open and lively as it is. Surely, nowhere near as problematic as the treble happy DT990 and HE-400.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Great

The X1 has a large soundstage somewhat similar to the DT990. Plenty of space between instruments and positional cues, with great imaging. A soundstage this good just isn't normal with bassy headphones, making the X1 even more special. The instruments and positional cues don't take up as much space as something like the K702/65, giving a larger sense of virtual space, even if it doesn't reach as far out.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Great

Great positional cues tend to accompany open headphones with large soundstages, and the X1 surely does not disappoint. Among the best in positional cue clarity, with a pretty good sense of height (something I don't normally notice in headphones), front and side cues, and very good rear positional cues. For a bass oriented headphone, the X1 will be among the best all rounders, especially if positional accuracy is a must.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Great

Due to the very (VERY) linear frequency response after the bass, the Fidelio X1 is among the clearest sounding headphones, especially for gaming. The mids are so dead even with the treble overall, that nothing is truly lost. The only problem in clarity is that due to the potent bass, some details can be hidden behind each bass impact, though for an all rounder with bass heaviness, there just won't be much better than the X1 in clarity. It really is that good.

*Amping:*
Minimal Amping

With popular headphones come the inevitable influx of people recommending they be amped by powerful amps to get the best out of them. I have heard this with basically EVERY SINGLE headphone that is worth their grain in salt. I'll be a little more realistic in saying that the X1 is quite easy to drive and doesn't scale up enough to warrant a potent/pricey amplifier for them. I believe a very good portable amp would be enough for them, and anything else is more for tweaking the flavor and sound signature, and not because the X1 needs a certain amount of power. So again, I say, the X1 can do very well with a good portable amp or decent desktop amp, and still sounds fantastic with very little to no amping. The X1 is quite sensitive, and I feel that for console gaming, the Mixamp alone is enough.

*Value:*

The X1 is sells for around $232 consistently and at that price, it is an ABSOLUTE must have. You get a lot of performance, and very few drawbacks. Those who want a linear headphone with bump in bass need look no further. You get one hell of a headphone for so little money.

*Final Impressions:*

With the X1, you get a very beautiful, comfortable, affordable (by audiophile standards), open, velour padded, easy to drive, bassy, energetic, linear headphone. That is a hell of a lot of boxes ticked for a headphone in this price range, and trust me, it's all true.

There are a few caveats: essentially non-replaceable pads, mediocre stock cable, metal bending mod necessary for larger heads. Also, bass could stand to be more refined, mids aren't exactly highlighted, treble detail gets glossed over past a certain point, and slight (very slight) fatigue at times.

Despite those few caveats, the X1 is well worth their price and then some. For those who have been on the hunt for an open, bassy can, with comfy velour (like I have), your journey is over. Get the X1 as soon as possible. It isn't perfect, and depending on what you want out of a headphone, the X1 may not be suited for you (those looking for stellar mids need not apply), but considering their price and domestically appealing sound signature, the X1 is a clear winner in my book.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 8.5/10 (Amazing)



Open headphone with bass, soundstage, and comfort. Need I say more?





Spoiler: Competitive: 8/10 (Great)



If the bass were a little tighter and more refined, the X1 could've been a 9 in competitive, though it may have reduced the fun factor.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



The only downside to the X1's comfort is the heat build up, and initially itchy pads.



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----------

Philips Fidelio X2




Where to buy: amazon.com


Spoiler: Review



Note: The full review of the Philips Fidelio x2 is now up at HERE. Go there for all the specifics.

*Gaming Specific:*
Rating: Excellent

The X2 for gaming purposes is fantastic. The improved clarity over the X1 is noticeable from the onset. Less bass bloat that doesn't creep up on the mids the way they did on the X1, while still retaining an excellent amount of bass and immersion.

The soundstage is both very good at width and depth. It's no Q701 or AD700, but it is certainly amongst the best all rounders for gaming due to excellent clarity, immersion, and positional cues.

The X2 pairs up incredibly well with virtual surround. I tested the X2 with both Dolby Headphone and THX tru Studio, to excellent effect. While the X2 already had a very good stereo soundstage, virtual surround really kicks the X2's soundstage into overdrive. Spacious, accurate, and out of the head. Not much more can be said, except, the X2 will make many gamers very happy. If you want a headphone for all forms of gaming, look no further.





Spoiler: Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)



The X2's excellent, immersive bass, paired up with it's proficient positional accuracy and excellent soundstage and imaging makes for an exceedingly fun headphone, without sacrificing clarity and competitive aspects of it's sound.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.25/10 (Great)



The improved clarity and control of it's bass over the X1 is immediately appreciable and beneficial to its competitive gaming prowess. The X2 does not have an issue being competitive, a marked improvement over the X1.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8.25/10 (Great)



The X2 will fit large heads without stretching, though I do recommend at least stretching them outward due to initial strong clamp. The minor issue with the X2 may be due to slightly itchy pads, which takes an initial period of adjustment.





Spoiler: Overall: 8.5/10 (Great)



Simply among the very best all rounders I have heard for everything you can throw at it, whether it's gaming, music, movies, you name it. Other headphones will do better in certain aspects, yet the X2 never truly falters in any regard.



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----------

*Sennheiser GAME ONE (*headset*)*




As of November 2017: $179.95 (GAME ONE Black version)
*Where To Buy*: Amazon (GAME ONE)



Spoiler: Review



It seems fitting that Sennheiser would be the manufacturer to bring me back to at least one more review. Throughout the years, Sennheiser has been a dearly beloved company near and dear to my heart for bringing me amazing headphones like the HD650, PX100-II, PC360. Even some I haven't reviewed, yet still own like the neckband style, imported PMX95, which finds daily use in my home.

I was approached online by fellow Head-fier, and Sennheiser online rep, @Evshrug to review the GAME ONE. As adamant as I was against reviewing again, I eventually caved, and agreed I'd take a look into the GAME ONE. One reason for reluctance is that I had already reviewed the PC360 and felt the review said all that needed to be said, I could just update to account for the differences. However, I did consider this being more of an 'updated' review to my later style and standard, which the PC360 review was far from.

To my surprise, Evs told me that the voicing had been changed a bit from the PC360, and as such, felt it was a good enough reason to jump back into it, IF the Game One was worth reviewing. Thankfully, there was never really a concern that Sennheiser wouldn't deliver yet another compelling product.



*Build Quality:*

If the name hadn't already given it away, the GAME ONE, in all its white glory definitely gives off a vibe of being headset aimed directly at gamers. Personally, I prefer the muted dark colors of the black version (as well as those of the PC360), but there is a charm about a headset that is easily identifiable and contrasts my general black/grey decor. The white version's subtle selection of colors blend together nicely, which is more than can be said of most gaming headsets out there. Even entering a party oriented for gamers, Sennheiser knows how to arrive well dressed.

Headband:

The GAME ONE's headband is the only section that is kept strictly business, akin to the PC360. All matte black plastic, with only some silver 'Sennheiser' lettering on the top left section of the headband. The underside holds a generous amount of velour padding to rest directly on the top of the head. The extension arms are thin but sturdy, with plenty of length for all head sizes. There are clicks when extending, but no notches to count, so it may not be the easiest to get both sides to end up perfectly equal in size, if you find that type of thing massively important.

Cups:

Typical to most Sennheiser headphones I've reviewed, the cups are oval in shape. There is minimal swivel (just enough for secure fit), but plenty of vertical pivot in the cups (45 degrees if my calculations are correct). Aesthetically, the cups are white with a glossy fisnish, with some subtle, red accents. The outer cups both yield the grills which are more like horizontally slotted lines, they being the only means for the sound to escape. Inspecting them, you would think these slots are much too small to give the GAME ONE an open sound, but they are definitely enough to fulfill that very purpose.

The outer right cup houses the volume dial which I find slightly insensitive in terms of travel to volume change ratio. This is a good thing, as miniscule tuning of volume is easily made with the Game One's volume dial. From my testing, it appears the volume dial doesn't mute the audio completely, yet goes low enough to allow for your attention to be diverted to the outside world.

The outer left cup holds the lengthy boom mic which has a black matte rubbery portion in the middle to allow some bending. Positioning the mic upwards mutes the mic as labelled on the cup itself where the mic is attached. The bottom of this cup is also where the cable input is located. Looks to be 2.5mm, and only needs the detachable cables to be pushed in; no twist and lock mechanism. I find this perfectly adequate, and more versatile if cable swaps/mods are something deemed worthwhile.

Ear Pads:

Dense, if a little plush black velour oval pads, which breathe easy, are generously large, deep, and ultimately top notch in comfort. They snap off the headphone easily, where you can see a plastic ring permanently attached to the underside of the pads which snap back onto the small 'teeth' on the driver housing. This is one of the easiest attachment/removal designs I've seen on any headphone.

Cables:

The GAME ONE comes with two cables in the package. A lengthy 3 meter cable which terminates into both a 3.5mm audio plug, and 3.5mm microphone plug. The cable is moderately thin but well made, sleeved, and light.

The other cable is a short 1.2mm cable with a TRRS plug. It's the same quality as its longer counterpart. I see this as a cable to be used for devices close to you, such as a PS4's dualshock 4 controller with audio input, or a mobile device.

I would have liked to seen a Y cable adapter for the longer cable that joins both audio/chat together into one TRRS plug, for people whose devices are considerably further than 1.2m.


Final Build Impressions:

The GAME ONE, like the PC360 is made of highly durable plastics that I feel will take moderate abuse without any major issues. The white gloss finish is considerably more prone to fingerprints, but outside of that, there's really nothing bad that can be said of the build quality here.



*Accessories:*

The GAME ONE is barren of any accessories. Just the headset, and the two detachable cables, that's it. As stated earlier, I would have liked to see a Y cable into TRRS plug, as well as a 1/4" (6.3mm) adapter, because we can't have too many of those, and some people may like to use the GAME ONE with their amps.

Other than those omissions, I'm perfectly fine with sticking to the bare necessities for the sake of saving on unnecessary material wastes and items I'd store away and forget about anyways.



*Comfort:*

Weight:

At 300g, the Sennheiser is far from heavy, though not the lightest pair of headphones I've used. It falls somewhere in the middle, which I find adequate and far from cumbersome. It feels generally fine. Weight isn't really a pro or con here in terms of comfort.

Headband:

The GAME ONE's headband, like the PC360, has its wonderfully velour padded underside which rests comfortably on the head. I don't feel any hot spots, sore spots, or any other form of indescribable spots coming from the headband. Generally excellent all around.

Ear Pads:

Large enough to fit most ear sizes, and deep enough to keep your ears from bottoming out and pressing against the driver enclosure. The pads are soft velour, if a little dense. I can wear the GAME ONE for hours and not feel the need to take them off due to trapped heat (though I do have to taken them off for another reason described below). They are excellently cool to my ears. The pads are a source of comfort, and I can see why Sennheiser hasn't changed this design in many years. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Clamp:

This is the one debatable area in comfort for me, as it tends to be with most Sennheiser headphones. The GAME ONE isn't exactly heavy on clamp, but it is moderate and enough for me to feel the need to stretch out the headband a bit. I do feel some unwanted pressure from the area around my ears due to the clamp. Not much, but enough to remove the headphones at random intervals to relieve some of that pressure. It's really no big deal, and something you grow accustomed to with Sennheiser headphones. The upside is the very secure fit you will always have with the GAME ONE.

Overall Comfort Impressions:

The GAME ONE falls under the list of headphones I can wear all day with a few breaks to relieve some clamp pressure. That's a win in my book, and I consider the GAME ONE to be generally comfortable overall. If I were to give it one of my old system ratings, I'd say "Very Good".



*Isolation/Leakage:*

As an open-backed 'acoustic' design, the GAME ONE isn't for those who want supreme noise control, isolation, and leakage kept to a minimum. It's not the loudest open design out there, but you definitely don't want to use the GAME ONE at loud volumes in quiet settings. Behind a closed door, there shouldn't any major issues disturbing others, however. External sources of noise can easily be heard through the headphone, so you may want to consider a closed-backed headphone/headset if external noises bother you.



*Sound:*

This is where it gets interesting for the GAME ONE. I, and I'm sure many of you who read this review would think this to be just a rehash of the PC360. But truth be told, the GAME ONE has something the PC360 lacked: musicality. While it has been quite a long while since I've heard the PC360 (within a year, as one of my close IRL friends owns one), one thing remains: It's a very balanced, safe headphone that isn't immediately engaging or musical. It presents audio in a fairly even manner, but doesn't do it any favors in terms of engaging its audience. In that sense, the PC360 is a stellar gaming headphone in that it gives you the sound you need to hear for better or worse. It makes for an excellent competitive gaming headphone where your primary focus is the action, and the audio relative to that action. Not so much for the immersion or enjoyment factor.

The GAME ONE on the other hand is more 'romantic'. More impactful. More bass, which was a bit dry and lacking in the PC360 in comparison. To go further into detail, let's start with just that, the bass.



*Bass:*

The GAME ONE, isn't a bass reliant headphone. You may have received this impression from what I said earlier. What I meant is that unlike the PC360's mostly linear, if boring approach to the sound as to not emphasize any particular aspect, the GAME ONE sounds, a little more enhanced, tastefully, to give it a sense of existence. A presence, a body that the PC360 lacked. More emotional weight to bass. Where you could 'hear' bass in the PC360, you can 'feel' it in the GAME ONE. Ultimately, I prefer the GAME ONE's rendition of bass over the weightless PC360's presentation of bass. It's not apples to oranges, but there is a difference.

Into the specific details: the GAME ONE goes as far down as 30hz in terms of audible rumble, with decent texture and volume at 35hz up, with 45hz being a great sub rumble point. Mid-bass at 60-120hz is audible and never over-intrusive, and high bass to low mid being well presented without overwhelming the midrange.

There is a rumble to the sound that just isn't there on the PC360 and HD650. It fills out the body, weight of the sound, enveloping the sonic atmosphere in ways those headphones lacked a bit in. Again, it isn't a basshead level headset. It is, however, a more flavorful, quality selection of 'meat'. There's more to chew on here. Think of it like the darker, deeper signature of AKG's K712 Pro compared to the classic, leaner AKG 701. Not so much, as the PC360 and HD650 are both generally warm to begin with, but there's an additional infusion of musicality to its bass.

Mind you, the GAME ONE is still classic Sennheiser, and I'm not saying it's night and day different vs the PC360. But there is more presence south that wasn't quite as 'there' on the PC360.

In terms of quantity, the GAME ONE is not overindulgent in bass over the rest of the frequencies, so I'd put it as present over the mid and treble ranges if just a bit.

In terms of quality, I feel it is good for an open dynamic with some textured rumble, and average speed decay. It's not the fastest in terms of speed, or the clearest, most textured bass I've heard, but it does generally well in those regards.

To sum up the bass, I'm in favor of the changes, and feel it makes the GAME ONE a better, more versatile headset over the generally safe bass levels of the PC360 which translate well into competitive gaming, but lacks a bit for immersion, engagement, and non-gaming instances, such as music playback. If bass is a factor for you, I'd choose the GAME ONE over the PC360, but there are better options that have more meat in the bass regions. That being said, it's just ultimately a more fun, enjoyable experience than the PC360 of old. I can easily rock out with the GAME ONE. I could not say the same for the PC360, as great a headset as it was.


*Midrange:*

While the PC360 kept everything generally even and well balanced, nothing too forward, or too behind in the sound, the GAME ONE's slightly deeper bass levels have pushed some midrange forwardness back at times. Consider yourself sitting a few rows further back from the front of the stage, unlike the PC360 where you're mostly in the middle seats.

In terms of frequencies, there seems to be a few dips at around 1.6khz, and 6khz, while the rest staying a very good level relative to the rest of the sound. Its strongest/loudest point is 5khz, and even then, there is no overwhelming levels of brightness anywhere in the sound. Overall, the midrange is well reigned in, and generally silky smooth.

The act of putting the midrange a few rows back may not be ideal to some people, but it helps to add a sense of space between you and the sound, making the staging larger, which aids gaming purposes quite well, where things aren't typically in your face. Remember, this is a gaming headset first, musical headphone second.

Don't get me wrong, the midrange isn't recessed in the way, say a Beyerdynamic DT990 is. It is still well balanced and present. It's just placed a smidge further back. Not so in your face.

In terms of vocals, male vocals don't seem to suffer in the least bit, and feel as ever present as expected. Some female vocals may sound further back in comparison.

In the end, I feel the GAME ZERO's midrange is placed on an even level with most of the midbass and treble ranges. The midrange is as present as the rest of the sound.



*Treble:*

The GAME ZERO's treble is free of any harsh sibilance, harshness and other glaring flaws. There is audible presence at 12khz which is far from a problem area generally speaking. 10khz seems about on par with the rest of the sound, which means the GAME ONE's tonality ends up warm, mostly smooth with a hint of sparkle. There is no veil here, though the lower treble at 7.5khz does have a noticeable dip that smooths out any problem that could arise from that area of the sound.

The GAME ONE may not be the sparkliest, airiest tonality sound out there, but it still manages to give off a large sense of space.

The treble range is free of bothersome characteristics and will keep your ears fatigue free through extended periods of use.



*Soundstage:*

I tend not to focus much on soundstaging in terms of stereo music listening as most headphones I feel keep things close to the ears, the GAME ONE being no exception. Outside of some planarmagnetic headphones which do amazingly well in terms of soundstage depth and imaging, I feel most headphones keep things in an horizontally longish oval shape between my ears.

It isn't constricted and kept inside my head, but I'm not one to think that sounds just outside my headspace is considered huge. It is with virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone, and Creative SBX where I can gauge how well a headphone or headset can fool me into thinking sounds are coming from around me as opposed to inside my head. In that regard, the GAME ONE like the PC360 throws out a FANTASTICALLY large soundstage with a great sense of space and directionality. The GAME ONE for virtual surround gaming is an absolute treat. There is clear distance between positional cues in a 360 degree front to back circle. This means the GAME ONE is in the upper echelons of headphones/headsets tested for positional accuracy when gaming.



*Clarity:*

Despite the smoother, warmer tonality of the GAME ONE, it isn't a veiled or subdued headphone in terms of clarity. It isn't as crisp and vibrant as an AKG K702, Audio Technical AD700, or  Beyerdynamic T70, but for a warm headphone, it is among the clearest I've heard, and shouldn't be considered lacking in this regard. You definitely want to feed it high quality files. Questionable quality material may sound muffled and veiled.

The bass isn't intrusive to the rest of the sound, even if its ambience is ever present.

The midrange clarity is pretty good, if only a little pushed back at times.

The treble range despite being smooth has some sparkle in a non-fatiguing manner.

If I had to rate the clarity, I'd put it as 'Good' particularly for a warm headphone.



*Sound Signature:*

Tonality: Warm,  decent bass presence, slightly pushed back midrange. Treble is even with the midrange.

Bass: Warm, enveloping, ambient. Mid bass isn't overly pronounced and transitions to the midrange well. Bass is average speed. Good texture.

Midrange: Warm, medium body, well balanced, a few dips, slightly pushed back. Stronger male vocals, not as forward female vocals. Sibilance-free.

Treble: Smooth, non-fatiguing, a hint of sparkle, but generally pleasing, even after all day use.

Soundstage: Wide oval, fantastic size in virtual surround. Plenty of distance.

If you like a good balance, warmth, and non-fatiguing signature, the GAME ONE has you covered. It isn't bright, piercing, or aggressive, which you may like, and have to look for elsewhere.



*Microphone:*



As you can hear, it's a pretty natural sounding microphone that is clear, with no sibilance. I'd put it just slightly below the Beyerdynamic MMX300's mic as far as the ones I've tested to date. I don't think anyone would have any real issues with this mic. It's excellent.



*Amping:*

At 116db in sound pressure level, the GAME ONE can be amped by anything and everything to ridiculously high volume levels. It is a very, very sensitive headset, that is even astoundingly loud off my Noble Audio BTS (bluetooth solution) (thanks to @Stillhart for gifting this to me a while ago). The GAME ONE, needs very little power. The PS4's dualshock 4 can drive it loud, which is more than I can say for other headphones I own which are made with portability in mind. Long story short, do not concern yourself with how well the GAME ONE can be driven. It needs next to nothing.

I would definitely lean on using a neutral to detail oriented amp, as the GAME ONE has enough warmth by itself.



*Gaming:*

The GAME ONE would have to live up to its name for gaming, or Sennheiser would need to rethink its naming schemes here. Thankfully, the GAME ONE delivers.

The bass rumble is good for the immersive aspects of video games. Atmosphere, darkness, looming sense of dread. All are represented quite well with the GAME ONE. Explosive, dynamic, and immediately engaging, though not as immersive as something more bass reliant like a DT880/990.

Soundstage in virtual surround is among the best I've heard heard for gaming, which makes positional accuracy top notch, and that much of an edge over those with lesser headsets/headphones.

The details are represented well enough with the GAME ONE, all but the strictest of game analyzing can be done without major issue. It may not be as immediately analytical as its older sibling the PC360, but if you do more than just game competitively, I feel the GAME ONE is that much more fun, and versatile. It is a joy to use for all gaming purposes. I would pick the GAME ZERO over the PC360 every time, as a mostly casual gamer.



*Personal Recommendation?*

Better than the PC360 in versatility, engagement, and musicality, I feel the GAME ONE is a great all arounder which can be enjoyable for all types of purposes. The bass levels really brings out some energy and grit not found in the tonally balanced, albeit a bit safe, and even boring in comparison, PC360.

General media consumption, as it does most things well, so TV shows, movies will sound great off the GAME ZERO.

Most genres of music, slightly less so female vocal heavy ones, if vocal forwardness is a priority. Gaming first, music second.



*Final Impressions:*

The GAME ONE, is an all-rounder headset through and through. Like the general, all purpose tool that was the PC360, the GAME ZERO can be used for all manner of things in audio. The difference is that it adds more musicality, personality, and flavor. It's apples to juicier apples, so your mileage may vary.

As of late 2017, while it has been a long time since I've focused on audio, I can safely say that there isn't a headset I'd choose over the GAME ONE. Not the A40, not the PC360, none. It simply has everything I'd need for ALL home purposes. Musicality, bass without it being overly, fairly balance midrange and treble that isn't fatiguing, and amazingly spacious soundstage and positional accuracy, there is little to critique on the GAME ONE. The midrange isn't particularly a strength, but it isn't a detriment either, unless that is where you want to focus. For the main purpose of gaming, I feel the midrange is presented well enough to ever consider it a problem.

If you're in search of fun headset with great sound quality, not much of a reason to search past the GAME ONE. It's equipped with all you need, really. I highly doubt many will find fault with it.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Pros:

Nice bass for an open dynamic
atmospheric
soundstaging
positional accuracy


Cons:

Clamp
Midrange a little pushed back at times
Not ideal for poor quality files



*Unfiltered Thoughts:*

Having been gone from the audio game for so long, I wasn't particularly expecting anything coming into this review. I know Sennheiser, and I know they know their audio. I came away as impressed with the GAME ONE as I was initially with the PC360, if not more so due to a more engaging tonality. I like my audio like I like my games: fun. There is a time and place for dry, analytical, sterile sounding headphones, but I feel those are niche with very few reasons to own one over a better, all purpose headphone that may be a little colored for fun. For me, as long as a headphone can retrieve details well enough while still engaging me with its sound, I consider that a winner in my book. The GAME ONE is a clear winner.

I may have embellished the differences between the PC 360 and GAME ONE so don't think it is night and day, but more like a heftier sounding PC360. The GAME ONE isn't a heavily colored headphone. It is still well balanced. I feel the need to repeat myself again in saying don't expect a bass monster, or even a basshead headphone. That is not what the GAME ONE is. It however, is just...better at engaging its audience. Take that as you will.




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----------

Sennheiser HD598




Sells for $200-250 (I was lucky enough to buy them for $170).


Spoiler: Review



You all know it as an improved HD595, which is a consistent fave among gamers, especially those who use virtual surround amps like the Mixamp. My opinion? The hype is well justified, at least when it comes to the HD598. They are incredibly well balanced. Somewhat bass neutral, mids are pretty up front and center, and neutral treble (never harsh) translates to a very promising headphone for gaming on paper. And I'm happy to report that they are ABSOLUTELY phenomenal for gaming. They belong right up there with the best for competitive gaming. Soundstage? Check. Positional accuracy? Double check. Detail retrieval? Triple check. The trifecta. It's missing very little for those needs. The bass may be a bit too laid back for those wanting some immersion in their non-competitive gaming however.

Comfort-wise: It's a hit or miss. The pads are huge and give your ears plenty of space to breathe. My issue is mostly with the clamp. Sennheiser just seems to design some pretty clampy headphones. Like the PC360, the only way I can find them comfy is to overextend them, and give them a loose fit. The headband padding is full on pleather, which is less comfortable than the PC360's velour padding.


Fun: 6.5/10 (Pretty Decent)
Competitive: 9.25/10 (Amazing)
Comfort: 7.25/10 (Good)

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*Sennheiser HD6XX*
**
Where to buy: Drop.com (as of review date Aug 2020)

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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----------

Sennheiser PC360 (*headset*)




Sells for $180-250.


Spoiler: Review



Seriously, if you want a headset, this is one is hard to pass up. Easily the best headset I have heard with a sound quality that doesn't make audiophiles cringe.

Clarity? Check. It slightly lags behind headphones like the AD700, K70x, Q701, and HD598, but for gaming, it is NO slouch. I can say that it COULD be clearer as a whole in comparison to headPHONES in their price range, but as far as headsets go, I highly doubt clarity would ever be a complaint. It picks up subtle details with ease.

Balance? Check. There is no part of the audio spectrum that I felt was truly emphasized over the rest. Well balanced. That's all I can say. Treble is neither too smooth, nor too sparkly. It sounded neutral. Fantastic.

Soundstage? Lagging behind the monsters that are the K70x and AD700, but is indeed no slouch. I'd say it has a bigger soundstage than the DT990. Fantastically large sense of space and airiness.

Directional Cues? Check. What can I say? This may actually be as good as the best when it comes to overall directionality. Trust me when I say that I could EASILY tell where sounds were coming from with the games I love to test.

Easy to discern front and back? Check. Perhaps the main shortcoming of Dolby Headphone (as some games just don't do this well even with the best headphone ever), and the PC360 got it down masterfully for those games that do rear positional cues well.

If you're in the market for a wired headSET, this should be the top priority. If you're looking for clarity, the PC360 does a fantastic job.

Comfort-wise, it's near identical to the HD598. The pads are wonderful and huge enough for your ears, but the clamp can be bothersome. Extend them to fit loosely, and they'll feel pretty good. Your mileage will vary. the velour headband padding is a step above the abundant amount of pleather on the 598's headband.

The PC360 is definitely a gaming beast.





Spoiler: Fun: 6.75/10 (Quite Decent)



Well balanced, but not really matching the punch in bass I like from funner cans, though the bass is enjoyable at times.





Spoiler: Competitive: 9/10 (Amazing)



I highly doubt you'll be complaining about anything as you're precisely locating anything and everything around you.



----------
----------

*Sennheiser PC38X*





Where to buy:  *Drop.com* as of September 2020 ($160-ish)

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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Skullcandy PLYR 1 (*wireless headset*)
http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/shop-all




Sells for $180.


Spoiler: Review



Before I get started, I again want to thank Gernard Ferril at Skullcandy for getting in contact with me and giving me the chance to review the PLYR 1. This makes the 4th product I've received from them, which I'm absolutely thankful for. The PLYR 1 (pronounced "Player 1") is Skullcandy's flagship gaming headset with all the bells and whistles you'd come to expect from a top of the line headset. It's almost fully wireless (save the XBox 360 controller/chat cable), with Dolby Headphone 7.1 virtual surround decoding, and a base/decoder box that doubles as a headstand. Basically, this is an alternative to fully decked out wireless headsets like the Astro A50s.

I have an unboxing video posted up on my new channel, HERE. It will give you a solid idea as to what to expect.

PLYR 1 features:


[/B]



Spoiler: Review




Dolby 7.1 Surround (Dolby Headphone)
3 EQ presets: Bass Mode, Supreme mode (flat response), and Precision Mode (for extra air, treble detail)
Wireless Audio
Pivoting Boom Mic (non-removable)

The base/decoder box/headphone stand has:

Power
Dolby Headphone button
Aux In (for external devices)
Optical Out (passthrough)
Optical Input
USB input to charge the headset
Mini USB for powering the base.

The PLYR 1 headset itself has:

Power Button
Master knob with the voice/game volume balance, and volume up and down.
EQ preset slider with 3 settings
USB input for charging
2.5mm input for Xbox 360 controller/chat input
Non-detachable boom mic (flexible), mutes when flipped up

Build Quality:

The PLYR 1 is made up of some pretty durable plastic, heavier, and more solid than the SLYR. The design reminds me a lot of the newer Denon line, but without the horrible 'lip' at the ear cups. The PLYR 1 is a very nice looking headphone. Not extreme in it's design, but not understated either. I prefer it's design over the Slyr's. It's cups are non-glossy, textured in a street style pattern. The underside of headband is padded with soft cloth-like material, plenty to keep the headband from being uncomfortable. The left cup houses the microphone which is long, malleable, and easy to position any way you'd like.

The right cup houses all your buttons/functions. The power button is quite easy to find. The EQ preset slider is placed on the front side and isn't the easiest thing to find, though with some time, I didn't have any big issues finding it.

The Voice/Game/Volume 'stick' is placed near the power button, directly on the face of the right cup. I'm not the biggest fan of the stick, as it feels a bit analog and can be harder to 'feel' if you're adjusting the volume up/down or the V/G balance, basically not knowing if I'm hitting up or right if I move it somewhere in between the two, etc. My solution (as I never use a mic) is to immediately adjust the V/G balance all the way to the game audio side (G), which the headset confirms with two beeps. from there, I adjust the volume. If you adjust towards the voice side (V) all the way, you'll get a single, higher pitched beep. You'll want to adjust for game audio first, just to make sure you're getting a signal. There are instances where the headset drops audio completely (usually when switching a source, or a game booting up), and if you adjust for voice first, you won't hear game audio either way.

I understand Skullcandy wanting to have all these functions in one 'stick' for simplicity, but in the end, I felt it would have been better off having some buttons to press to separate each function. It ended up being harder to use over simple buttons, personally. I guess with time, it'd be second nature, however.

The ear pads are made up of the same material as the headband padding. Very soft, with plenty of depth, but a bit on the small side, so bigger ears may need to 'tuck' inside to have a circumaural fit.

On to the base/decoder box/headphone stand. The base is incredibly light. I personally would've wanted a heavier base, so it wouldn't slide around so easily, but that's more of a personal issue, as I'm constantly having to readjust the cables (using various sources for testing). I also would have preferred the power and Dolby button to be placed on the front, since there are times when you'll be switching from Stereo (for music) to Dolby (for games and DVD movies). Dolby Headphone doesn't discriminate and adds it's processing to all signals, which isn't a good thing for music and other 2 channel sources. It's a minor hassle having to reach around the back to switch it on/off.

Comfort:

The PLYR 1 is a pretty comfortable headset overall. It's not as featherweight as the Slyr, but it's relatively light. At first, it can be quite clampy, which makes the PLYR 1 lose out on points, but after leaving it stretched over my headphone amp, it loosened up. I think I overdid it though, as it was a bit TOO loose. I ended up placing a rubber band around the headband for a night, and it allowed the PLYR 1 to clamp to my head again. It's at a decent clamp, not as bad as it was when I first wore it.

The headband has a generous amount of extension, so it should fit all but gigantic heads. The pads are incredibly comfortable, and plenty deep, though they are a bit on the small side. They could stand to be quite a bit wider/longer to allow bigger ears to fit in without issue. The headband padding is just as good as the ear pads, and is an absolute non-issue.

Accessories:

Headset, base/decoder box, optical cable, 2.5mm (Xbox 360 chat cable), two usb cables. All you will ever need with the PLYR 1, though if you want to use external sources, you will want cables that terminate into 3.5mm to plug into the base's AUX IN.

Isolation/Leakage:

Like the SLYR, it's not the best at isolation/noise leak. It's not as bad as an open headphone, but I would expect better. Comparing it directly to Mr. Speaker's Mad Dogs, you can clearly tell that the PLYR 1 was lacking in noise control compared to the MD.

Microphone/Chat:

I'm not very experienced with headset mic capabilities, but I personally didn't have much if any issue with the microphone on the PLYR 1. It's malleable design ensures that you can position it any way you'd like to get it to pick up your voice properly.

Sound:

The PLYR 1 shares a lot with the SLYR. This was confirmed by Gernard Feril (Skullcandy rep) via email.



> Our aim was to offer the great wired SLYR acoustic experience but in a wireless format with Dolby Surround, so far it seems like we have achieved that.


I asked if they shared the same drivers and frequency response:


> Yes, we had to make some modifications to the PLYR sound due to the added mass in the ear cavities (batteries and PCBs), but our target curves were the same for both.


So, the strengths and weaknesses of the SLYR were more or less the same in the PLYR 1. The PLYR 1 is a lively, energetic headphone, with boosted bass, but not overly so. Unlike its relative the Astro A50s, the PLYR 1 has less prominent bass which doesn't intrude it's mids or treble. It's a bassy headphone, make no mistake, but it doesn't hamper it's sound quality the way the A50's bass did.

Unlike the SLYR, I personally feel the PLYR 1 has less congestion, and a better sense of space. The sound breathes easier than the SLYR, which sounded a little more closed and two dimensional in comparison.

The wireless through its optical input is incredibly silent, with no discernible noise/hiss/hum. My only other wireless experience came with the A50 which had some background noise. The signal on the PLYR 1 (save for audio dropouts when launching PS3 games, which I'll touch upon later) was constant, distortion free, and clean.

The 3 EQ presets are as follows: (confirmed by Skullcandy's Head Engineer)



> Preset 2 is a flat, true response EQ curve. That is how the headset was acoustically tuned. EQ1 and EQ3 flavor the sound. EQ1 has a significant (8dB) low bass boost (sub 200hZ), with some modifications to the sound elsewhere. EQ3 is more subtle and was meant to emphasize the gaming details. I added a moderate sub 200hz bass boost to emphasize explosions, but I wanted to avoid a “muddy” sound. I also added a moderate treble boost to highlight gaming details.



EQ1 (Bass Mode): It considerably recessed the mids, and gives the PLYR 1 a massive bass wallop. 8db is an overwhelming amount of bass, personally. I think 4db could have sufficed for bassheads, as the PLYR 1 is already bassy. I honestly didn't care for this preset. However, it is still better than the A50's bass heavy presets, which were just...not good at all.

EQ2 (Supreme Mode): The most natural of the 3, being mostly linear, though not completely. Like the Slyr, it's still bass emphasized, but as mentioned earlier, it's a nice bass boost that doesn't hamper the mids or treble detail.

EQ3 (precision Mode): This mode is slightly more v-shaped than EQ2, with a slight bump in bass and treble. The bass boost is subtle, and the treble boost adds a nice amount of air to the PLYR 1. The mids get ever so slightly pushed back, but it's benign, as the PLYR 1 still sounds relatively well balanced, despite the rise of it's higher/lower extremities. This mode has the most soundstage and air of the three, though ultimately, I still slightly prefer EQ2.

Before I get into the specifics of the PLYR 1's sound, I need to mention that I'm basing the majority of this review on the PLYR 1's EQ2 (Supreme Mode) preset, as that is it's inherent tonal balance without any EQ.

Sound Issues:

I found EQ1 and EQ3 to have distortion embedded in the signal when running Sinegen frequency sweeps. EQ2 had no such distortion. The distortion/noise isn't noticeable while gaming, and I had zero problems playing in EQ3, but just take note that the noise may be there. It's mostly in the lower octaves (most of the bass) that distorts pretty noticeably on Sinegen. Again, it wasn't noticeable while gaming.

Another issue is that the Auxiliary Line In on the base has some background hum that gets louder as you raise the volume. Regardless of source or cable, the hum remained. It reminded me of the hum I had on my Schiit Lyr tube amp. Ultimately, it's not a big issue while gaming. The hiss off the Mixamp Pro (2013) and Mixamp 5.8 were more noticeable than the low hum off the Plyr 1's Line In.

The last sound issue I had with the PLYR 1 is that the signal would drop indefinitely when going from the PS3's XMB into launching a game. It never dropped WHILE gaming however. On those occasions when I would lose audio, I'd either press the DH button or powered off/on the base/headset, which would then get the signal back with no further issues. I'll have to do more testing to see if it's just an issue with the PS3 switching from LPCM to Dolby Digital which causes the audio to drop.

Bass:

Like the Slyr, the PLYR 1 has a very full, lively, and fun amount of bass. I can't say anything I didn't already mention about the Slyr: "punchy, impactful, energetic bass that is quite present, but never overwhelming. It also has good speed and decay. Quite impressed with the SLYR's bass. A very good start. If I had to give the bass a quantity, I'd give them an 8. Plenty of bass for me. Not perfectly in line with mids and treble, but it's a GOOD emphasis."

Mids:

Again, like the Slyr, the PLYR 1 has similar mids: I'm used to v-shaped curves, with bass and treble emphasis, and recessed mids. Yet, the (Plyr 1) has some pretty (decent) mids next to the typical v shaped can. Slightly recessed next to the bass, but I'd say they're pretty in line with the treble. The SLYR's mids are slightly more forward, though I'm sure it's due to the more compact and intimate soundstage.

Treble:

Again, I felt the treble to be very much like the Slyr: "The treble is (ever so slightly) energetic, but it's not harsh. It's very close in balance to the mids for me. It is RARE for treble to be in the safe zone between too soft, and too harsh. The (PLYR 1) is DEFINITELY in that safe zone." The treble may be just a tad smoother than the SLYR, though it's close.

Soundstage:

The soundstage on the PLYR 1 is decidedly closed, but it's pretty airy and spacious despite being closed. From memory, it has a better sense of air and space than the SLYR, and so it performs a bit better for competitive gaming. In direct comparison to the Mad Dogs (which at the time of this review I was re-reviewing), the PLYR 1 sounds more open and spacious, though the Mad Dogs have better depth. On EQ3, the PLYR 1 gained a subtle amount of air and perceived soundstage.

Positioning:

The relatively decent soundstage for a closed headphone works better than the more congested SLYR's soundstage. Positional cues were relatively easy to pinpoint, though the soundstage depth wasn't stellar, and the imaging wasn't as clean and precise as some of the better headphones reviewed. If I were to score the positional cues, I'd give them a 7. Good.

Clarity:

The PLYR 1 isn't the most detailed headset or headphone I've heard, but for the purpose of gaming, it's pretty good. The flat preset is somewhat on a tonally neutral to slightly warm side, and I found the perceived clarity to be better on EQ3, despite it being more V-shaped.

Value:

For $180 MSRP, you get a solid wireless headset which includes it's own Dolby Headphone decoder and headphone stand. If you're a gamer and just want one very simple and affordable solution for ALL your gaming, music, movie needs, the PLYR 1 is going to be pretty hard to pass up.

Final Impressions:

The PLYR 1, like the SLYR is a winner by Skullcandy. I was very pleased by it's sound quality for music, gaming, and movies. Have I heard better? Of course. However, the PLYR 1 has a tonal balance that just resonates with my particular tastes. There are almost no headphones I have reviewed outside of Skullcandy's own SLYR that has the bass/mid/treble balance that I deem near PERFECT for my taste. The higher end cans I have reviewed have better quality, but their tonal balance isn't as dialed in to my tastes as the SLYR and PLYR 1. Paired with the fact that the PLYR 1 is wireless (and a very good wireless signal at that) makes it a must have for those looking for simple all in one solutions, despite a few drawbacks/issues with it's functionality and EQ presets having some distortion.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 7.75 (Very Good)



There's nothing I can say about the PLYR 1's sound signature except that it's incredibly fun to listen to with all forms of media.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7.25 (Good)



Due to a bigger soundstage, and sense of air that allows positional cues to stick out better than the SLYR, the PLYR 1 makes a better gaming headset overall. Depth isn't excellent, but overall, it does work quite well.





Spoiler: Comfort: 7/10 (Good)



Initially a bit clampy, after some trial and error, the PLYR 1 is a pretty comfortable headphone, though some with bigger ears may have an issue with the small diameter of the pads.



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----------

Sony MA900




Discontinued


Spoiler: Review



The Sony MDR-MA900. MA900 for short. Modeled after Sony's own F1 and SA5000, the MA900 (like the F1) stands out in that there is a huge opening between the drivers and the rear side of the pads. I can honestly say I have never seen any other headphone with such an obvious lack of seal/isolation outside of the AKG K1000. It comes equipped with humongous 70mm drivers, which may be repurposed from the Sony XB1000, though unlike the XB1000, the MA900 is not placed in the Extra Bass line of Sony headphones, with good reason. I was always interested in the F1 for gaming/comfort purposes but I never took the plunge. I've since outgrown the desire to try the F1 and went on to pursue other ventures. With the release of the MA900, my interest in such a peculiar design was resurrected. The overwhelmingly positive impressions and reviews was the final straw, and I knew I just had to try them for myself if only to satiate my curiosity.

Build Quality:

Upon first glance, the build quality is suspect on the MA900. It is essentially two massive drivers surrounded in a black plastic-looking magnesium/aluminum alloy (it looks and feels like plastic to me) cups held by an incredibly thin headband that looks out of proportion with the massive cups. The cups are quite large, though for housing 70mm drivers, I expected, and have seen bigger. The color scheme is classic Sony black with silver Sony logos placed on the center of the outer cups with a thin silver accent separating the outer grill with the rest of the cups. The styling is pretty barebones overall. Not really what I'd call an aesthetic marvel, but they are inoffensive to the eyes, and won't bring attention to itself. I find the cups themselves to look quite nice, despite the basic, somewhat retro look.

The thin size adjustment mechanism is pretty standard fare, if a bit too loose for my taste. There are no markers/notches, so if you're OCD about having both sides at exactly the same length, you may need a measuring tool of some sort. On the center of the headband is a wider section covered in the same cloth material as the ear pads. The padding isn't generous nor is it horribly thin. It could stand to be a bit thicker, but with the MA900 being so incredibly lightweight, the headband is ultimately quite comfortable, if just a hint of a minor annoyance in comparison to everything else on the headphone.

The ear pads are placed on an angled portion of the cups (thus angling the drivers for optimal sound quality), and like the headband padding, are made up of a very breathable, cloth material. The pads used, paired with the huge cavity between the pads and the drivers ensure that your ears will stay cool for many hours. The ear pads are quite thin and lack density, and will flatten out quite easily. This is perhaps the most disappointing aspect of the MA900's design in terms of comfort. That's not saying much, as even though the pads flatten out, the pads are still incredibly comfortable. Still, had thicker, taller, denser pads been used, it would've improved the comfort to a legendary level. The driver cover is also made up of similar cloth material. Placed normally, your ears will more than likely press against the driver cover lightly, but for the vast majority of people, it won't be an issue.

The left cup houses the relatively thin and lengthy non-removable cable which terminates into a 3.5mm plug (6.3mm snap on gold-plated adapter included) with 'Thailand' embedded on the plug, letting everyone know where the headphones were made. The cable, while on the thinner side, isn't of the horrible, 'grippy' rubber material, and is instead smooth, quite flexible, and very lightweight. Neither the plug, nor the entrance to the headphone itself have robust strain reliefs, so I'd be careful in yanking the cable.

I believe they went with such a thin, seemingly frail design with some concessions made to it's build quality in order to keep the MA900 incredibly lightweight and non-intrusive on the head and ears. I don't expect the MA900 to fail me in terms of it's build, and I'm moderately careful with my headphones. So, it's not the sturdiest headphone, nor is it just going to crumble in your hands. I personally feel like they can be tossed around in a bag without too much worry. I'd mostly just be careful to not trip/run over the cable. In the end, I forgive Sony for going with this design, because I'm an absolute fan of their comfort. So much, that the MA900 is now the only headphone I wanna put on my head. Seriously.

Comfort:

This is perhaps the single most defining trait of the MA900. The MA900 is undeniably, and inarguably one of the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. It seemingly weighs absolutely nothing when you put it on. The headphone just rests on your head with just enough clamp to keep them from slipping and sliding around unlike the 3d wing design and incredibly loose fit of the Audio technica AD700. No, really. You can compare with some other top tier headphones in terms of comfort, and the MA900 will still put them to absolute shame.

Is it PERFECT? No. The headband could be just a little more plush to make it truly disappear on the top of the head. The pads can stand to also be more plush, to both keep from flattening out, and to keep the ears from lightly touching the drivers. That being said, the driver cover is of similar cloth to the pads and headband and won't crush your ears, so it won't offend the ears compared to something like the premium Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990 which have a tendency on crushing ear due to their shallow pads. Every once in awhile you'll have the urge to readjust the MA900. That's about the only real gripe I personally have.

Despite these very minor annoyances, there's arguably no real competition from all the headphones I have worn (and I have worn many). The MA900 truly stands alone as the king of full size headphone comfort. Only those with a strong aversion to their ears touching any material may find them uncomfortable.

Design Issues:

The MA900 has a few things that I feel are worth noting. When adjusting the size, I STRONGLY advise on actually holding the headphone on the exposed rubber pieces where they extend, and adjust the headphone by holding the solid arm piece with the other hand and pulling. Don't just yank the cups down while they're on your head, and don't adjust the size by holding the headband and pulling down on the cups or the arm piece as you can cause the rubber pieces to slip out of the headband and expose the wires. Protect the rubber piece between the headband and the cups by holding that specific piece tightly when adjusting. Trust me on this.

Also, as previously mentioned, the cable doesn't have a proper strain relief, so make sure not to yank on it from either the entry point to the headphone itself or the headphone jack. With proper care, the MA900 shouldn't have any build quality issues despite it's thin, light design. If you're somewhat abusive to your headphones, then perhaps the MA900 is not for you. However, I don't see an issue coming up with tossing them around. Just be careful with the cable itself.

Finally, this may not really be an issue, but I need to mention that the MA900 is sensitive to ear placement. It's possible to reduce bass and make the MA900 slightly more holographic sounding by placing your ears closer to the rear side of the pads. I personally recommend wearing the MA900 in it's natural position, with the ears as close to the center as possible to ensure you get the intended sound quality. The one benefit I find by wearing the MA900 with the ears close to the rear, is that your ears will breathe a little more, and won't touch the driver cover.

Accessories:

The MA900 comes with a 6.3mm gold plated adapter attached to the plug. It also comes with a rather gaudy looking gold carrying pouch. The pouch doesn't even have a Sony label on it, but at least it's functional. I would've preferred a black, cloth pouch like those that came with the Sony XB500.

Isolation/Leakage:

I'll make this easy for all of you. If you're looking for isolation and noise control, skip every open ear headphone, especially ones as open as the MA900. The MA900 by design is incredibly open, to the point of having a large gaping void between the pads and the driver housing. This means that the sound of the MA900 will leak out as much as if you're holding the MA900 in your hands with the cups spread apart. If holding a pair of headphones in the air with the cups spread apart is too loud for you (at your listening level), then the MA900 won't help matters.

Sound:

The Sony MA900 has comfort and price in the bag. Does the sound hold up? Absolutely. The Sony is what I consider a true all-rounder, doing many things well, with no glaring flaws other than a slightly polite treble response. It won't be the best at any one thing, but do all manner of things well. Tonally warm, well balanced, with some fantastic imaging, and a large, spacious soundstage. The MA900 in all honesty, shares a lot with the HD650 with some key differences, which I'll touch upon in the comparison section.

Bass:

The MA900's bass is actually quite impressive. For an open dynamic headphone with such a large leakage point in the hole between the pads and the drivers, the bass is surprisingly pretty competent and hits with convincing authority. It hits hard when a song calls for it, and is well in line with the mids every other time. Note that there is a noticeable sub bass roll off, so don't expect a massive low end rumble from these. Mid bass is more than plentiful, and could even be seen as ever so slightly emphasized. More bass than the AKG Q701, and about on par with the K702 65th Anniversary, despite the latter having more linearity in the bass that extends and reaches lower. Feed the MA900 some music that asks for bass, and the MA900 won't disappoint for anyone looking for good, balanced bass. Bassheads need not apply.

Mids:

This is without a doubt the star of the MA900's show, and it's greatest strength. The MA900's warm, organic tonality is thanks mostly in part due to it's realistic voicing, and fleshed out mid section. Thankfully, the mids don't come out as shouty or over-emphasized due to the mid bass staying relatively on par with the mids, giving the MA900 a linear curve that doesn't particularly add emphasis to anything. The large, spacious soundstage places some distance between you and the vocals in the virtual space, so the MA900's mids aren't as intimate as something like the LCD2, HD650, and K702 Anniversary. It is however still the area in sound that brings to the most attention to the MA900, with zero mid recession. If you love natural sounding, clear vocals, the MA900 is a safe bet. One of the best mid sections out of all the headphones I've owned.

Treble:

If anything can be considered to be the weakest area of the MA900 and the least likely to grab attention when it comes to the sound signature, it would definitely be the treble region. The MA900's treble is not the final word on energy, sparkle, and aggression. However, it's definitely not veiled or overly rolled off. The MA900's treble is on the smooth side, inoffensive, and almost entirely non-fatiguing. It doesn't extend as well as brighter, more treble oriented headphones, sacrificing some hyper detail and upper clarity for overall listening comfort. If you want a headphone to analyzing hyper details, the MA900 is not it. However, if you're looking for a headphone that won't shatter your ears with sibilance, and instead give you a pleasant amount of non-fatiguing treble, the MA900 will be right up your alley.

Soundstage:

Following in the footsteps of my HP-800 review, the MA900 follows suit as a tonally warm headphone with smooth treble still manages to have a large, spacious soundstage. The smoother presentation causes instruments and sound effects to sound thicker, but a little less defined, and less cohesive in the virtual space (like the K702 Anniversary). However, this is in comparison to the more analytically inclined headphones like the AD700, K702, and other, more treble oriented headphones like the DT990.

Positioning:

This shouldn't come as a surprise due to the fantastic imaging, large, spacious soundstage, and very balanced sound: the MA900 has some fantastic positional cues. While the positional cues aren't as tightly defined as other headphones like the K701 and AD700, placement is spread apart, and easy to locate in the virtual space. Like the K702 Anniversary, the notes are on the thicker side, just robbing positional cues of just a little bit of breathing room, but when there is already so much available virtual space, it's nothing truly to be concerned about. The MA900 makes for a fantastic competitive gaming headphone, with no sacrifices made to its immersion for fun oriented gaming. What that means is that if you're looking for a headphone that will easily locate enemies, or other sound effects, yet do great with other forms of gaming, the MA900 makes a compelling argument for your hard earned money.

Clarity:

Thanks to the MA900's fantastic mids, and overall linear response, there really is nothing that blocks the vast majority of details. The treble's smooth and inoffensive nature may bottleneck and mask the upper range's last bit of extension and hyper detail, but as we all should know by now, mids are where the vast majority of sound is, and the MA900 has plenty of it. There is plenty of clarity otherwise. The MA900 may not be the most refined and technically proficient headphone out there, but for most uses, clarity is not going to be a problem.

For gaming, there's not going to be anything that performs well above the MA900 in terms of sound-whoring, unless you want to sacrifice the realistic tone, immersion, and pleasant signature for pure analytical use.

Amping:

The MA900 has a very interesting design, in that there is an impedance compensator, allowing the MA900 to be used with basically any standard headphone amp without having to worry about the output impedance altering the MA900's frequency response curve. The MA900 is actually quite efficient, and incredibly sensitive to boot. A portable amp would be basically all the MA900 needs. For gaming purposes, nothing in addition to something like the mixamp would be necessary.

Value:

The Sony MDR-MA900 represented one of the greatest values I've seen for ANY headphone. There is so much it does right, with very few caveats, which really aren't even based off it's fantastic sound. In my opinion, the MA900 stood nearly uncontested in the under $200 price bracket. A serious headphone for your money. That being said, the MA900 has been discontinued, and prices have shot up.

Final Impressions:

Great sound, truly amazing comfort, minimal amping requirement, and (at the time) relatively affordable price. It also does most forms of music genres, and all forms of gaming very well. What more can you ask for? The build quality and incredibly light weight doesn't inspire the most confidence in terms of durability, but with some care, I don't see the build being problematic. The Sony MA900 will now be my baseline and point of reference for all headphones in the $200 price range (even though it is no longer sold). The MA900 is quite possibly one of the easiest headphones to recommend for anyone that isn't a pure basshead or in need of isolation.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



Warm, immersive, and balanced bass that kicks with authority when asked for. The sub bass is a weakness in terms of immersion, but when so much content focuses on mid bass, it really isn't a detriment to the MA900's fun factor.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.25/10 (Great)



The large soundstage, paired with great balance, and fantastic positional cues make the MA900 a truly sublime, competitive gaming headphone. The positional cues aren't as incredibly well defined as some of the more analytical or treble emphasized headphones, but overall, there is little to complain about for competitive use.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8.75/10 (Excellent)



Despite the minor annoyances of the thin headband padding and ear pads, and your ears touching the driver covers, there just isn't much out there that stack up to the MA900 in terms of long wearing comfort. Incredibly light and heatproof make the MA900 an absolute comfort legend. As stated earlier, if you have a strong aversion against your ears touching any material, these may not be for you. Considering how long I've used the Koss KSC75/KSC35, which always press on the ear, the MA900's softer driver cover which doesn't press as hard, is mostly a non-issue that will need just a little readjusting once in awhile.



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Tritton AX Pro (true 5.1 *headset*)


Sells for $170.


Spoiler: Review



This is my first and LAST 5.1 headset. I couldn't believe it was worth $189. The sound quality was absolutely mediocre, more on par with $30 headphones (KSC75 excluded). Now to the meat of the reason anyone would get this: The 5.1 speakers. If it's better than virtual surround, it sure could have fooled me, because I wasn't buying into that gimmick. There was a noticeable gap between the drivers when a sound switched from one driver to the next. Sure, you can TELL where sounds are coming from if you pay attention to which driver is currently putting off noise, but I'll take the complete 360 degree soundfield Dolby Headphone has to offer over the AX Pros. The AX720 is better, and cheaper, plus the AX720's amp can be used with other headphones. There is absolutely no reason to own the Ax Pros, unless you want to see just how inferior it is to a good headphone paired with Dolby Headphone.

Comfort-wise, I didn't find them bad or great. They do their job, though for a sealed headphone, they are comfortable. Same as AX720.


Fun: 4/10 (Bad)
Competitive: 6/10 (Decent)
Comfort: 7/10 (Good)



Tier A: $300+

AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition


Sells for $400-$500


Spoiler: Review



The K702 65th Anniversary Edition. Limited to around 3000 units worldwide, sold at a premium, with a new headband, memory foam pads, gunmetal-like color scheme, and supposed retuning of the hand-picked drivers. I found the name to be a mouthful, so I decided to call it the K702 Annie, or just Annie. Thankfully, the name stuck. So from here on out, I'll be calling it the Annie.

Bass:

Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The Annie presents bass quite well. You can consider it slightly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. There were times where I found them to have more bass than even the HE-400. Overall, it certainly does not, but make no mistake, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.

What it improves over the Q701 is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the Annie WILL impress bass-wise. Make no mistake. I always found the Q701 and especially the old K701 to be slightly below neutral, bass-wise. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the Annie. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here. If you like accurate, yet full bass, the Annie will impress. They are also absolutely stellar for movies in Dolby Headphone.

Mids:

The mids on the K701/K702/Q701 have always been forward. However, due to the very large soundstage, they didn't come across as intimate. That large sense of space made the mids seem pushed back, even though they were actually forward in the mix compared to the bass and treble. The Q701's extra push in bass over the old K701 filled out the sound more, making the mids more natural than before. The Annie further improves on the mids by integrating them even more with the bass and treble. Due to the fuller, warmer sound signature, the mids are still forward, but not as distant due to a thicker sound. The mids are an absolute strength on the Annies. They remind me mostly of the HD650's mids, albeit with less intimacy due to the bigger soundstage. The HD650's strength is in the intimate mids due to a smaller, more closed in soundstage, placing the mids quite near you. The Annie's mids aren't HD650 special, but still fantastic.

The older models had some form of upper mid peak that caused some fatigue with certain music and the like. I personally have not heard any upper mid peak on the Annie, leading me to believe that the stronger bass, and warmer tone fleshed out and softened that peak to non-fatiguing levels. In this instance, the Annie shows what the Q701 would be like when perfected.

Treble:

The treble to me, has been a strength for both the Q701 and Annie. Both are detailed, yet smooth, still packing energy without being fatiguing. As mentioned before, the fatiguing area of the older AKGs was in the upper mids, and not the treble.

Soundstage:

Oh, that soundstage. The K and Q models have all been known to have some truly immense soundstage width, and good depth. The Annie follows suit with equally large soundstage, despite the overall sound being thicker which further integrates sound cues with the soundstage, making it not as apparently airy. Notice that I said 'not as airy', and not 'smaller'. This is both a pro and con. The thinner sounding K701 (old) had an incredible sense of air due to the thinner notes, which were't full sounding in comparison. This made notes easier to pick up, despite not sounding as natural as the Q701 and especially the Annie. What all this means, is that sound effects on the Annie occupy more of the space around you in comparison to the older models, for an overall meatier/weightier sound.

Positioning:

Though I discussed the thicker body of sound making the soundstage not as airy as the old K701 and to a lesser extent, the Q701, positional cues were not hampered in any way. This means that you can expect amazing performance with Dolby Headphone. Lots of space for positional cues to do their magic. Surely among the best that I have reviewed.

Clarity:

The Annie's warmer, less immediately detail oriented sound signature compared to the older models does not mean they lack clarity. The Annie is a very revealing headphone, just as the Q701 is, though it shifts the focus a bit more towards warmth, and musicality. The Annie is in a place that reaps the benefits of both warmth and detail focus, though if you put it next to the old K701, then yes, it will come off as less detailed, as you're it isn't dry, sterile, or particularly analytical.

Amping:

As with the older models, the Annie is very sneaky in terms of amping requirements. It needs minimal amping to play loudly, but the AKGs are notorious for craving as much power as 600ohm headphones. The Q701 was one of the most amp reliant headphones I had ever heard, and changed the most out of any dynamic headphone I ever heard and reviewed here. You will get away with moderate amping, but believe me, you will be doing a disservice to all the Ks and Qs by skimping out on amping. If you're gonna spend this much money on these headphones, you shouldn't feed it weak power, IMHO. They will reward you. The Annie is definitely the easiest of the models to power in terms of sounding good, but they benefit from good amping. Still, if you absolutely can't do with much amping, the Annie sounds quite full and refined off lesser equipment compared to the other models.

Build Quality:

Made of a durable plastic, and well thought out design, I find the build quality to be quite good. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse. The detachable cable is like the non-Anniversary models, which isn't the thickest I've seen, but certainly very malleable, flexible, and light. It certainly does it's job, though I would have expected a more rugged, or fancier cable for this very limited edition variant.

Compared to the non-Anniversary models of the K701/K702/Q701, the headband is thinner in width when viewed from the top/bottom, with a widening of the area where the AKG branding is located. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the Annie from a torture device to a godsend in headband comfort. There is no padding, but it is absolutely unnecessary as the headband perfectly molds to your head, distributing pressure evenly across where it rests. The bumped headbands were notorious for digging into the scalp, especially on the center one or two bumps. Why it took AKG this long to rectify this issue the vast majority of people had is beyond me, but it's finally done.

The headband also has the added benefit of allowing bigger heads to fit due to less stiffness, and more space. Prior to the Annie, I basically needed the other models to be fully extended for them to fit my head. This caused a lot of tight, downwards pressure, which in addition to the hard bumps, didn't lead to the most comfortable headband design. It took me a few days to adjust to the older models, but I didn't find them as problematic as most people still do.

The pads are the second most significant change from the older models. They are made of memory foam inside velour. Very dense and molds to your head shape MUCH more than the older model pads. This causes a better seal, which is more than likely the main reason why the sound signature is warmer, and more bassy (though no consensus or proof that it either is or isn't what causes all the sonic difference between the older models). Other than those two main differences, the Annie is physically a rebadged K702.

Comfort:

As previously mentioned, due to the new headband and new pads, the Annie has made a substantial boost in comfort over the older models. I would say that from what I've read, the K701/K702/Q701's comfort is hypothetically a 5/10 (for everyone else). The Annie, however would more than likely jump up to a 9/10 in comfort. Yes, the headband change is that significant. The removal of the dreaded bumps would basically satisfy ANYONE who had issues with them on the older models, and even those that don't have issues with the bumps.

The pads are arguable, as the older pads, while more firm, breathed a little easier than the new memory foam velours. In either case, neither are sweat inducing or uncomfortable, personally. I find the older models to be not as uncomfortable as most people would lead to believe, but the Annie provides a noticeable boost in comfort either way.

Accessories:

Nothing but a 6.3mm adapter. Just the goods.

Isolation/Leakage:

I don't know if it's just me, but even for a fully open headphone, I found these to not leak out as much as most open cans. I'm pretty sure it's due to the pads. The sound does not escape from the pads, but from the grills, and I find them to be pretty good at keeping sound in despite it's openness. I found the older models to leak out quite a bit more, more than likely due to the velour pads being a bit more breathable.

Value:

At around $375, the Annie is a tough sell, especially for those who own the later K702/Q701s (not sure on the newer K701). The non-Annies consistently sell for around $200-230. If you're fine with their sound signature and comfort, it's quite hard to recommend the Annie, despite the addition of warmth, bass, and overall tonality. The Annie brings out what was lacking in the older models, for sure, but the jump in price may not be worth it to some. If you haven't owned any of the standard models and can afford the Annie, I highly recommend jumping straight to the Annie if you feel the difference in signature is worth it to you.

Final Impressions:

In the Annie you have: very balanced, warm, detailed, spacious, god tier in positional cues, fun, engaging, and extreme comfort. If it sounds like I'm gushing about them, that's because I am. There is VERY little to complain about here. This is my idea of a perfected, well balanced headphone. The Annie is one of my absolute favorite headphones ever, and due to it's comfort, musicality, and gaming prowess, the Annie would be one of those headphones I could live happily with even if it was my only headphone.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)



The bass is mildly above neutral to my ears, while still maintaining good accuracy, giving it the injection of fun that the other models lacked without being too emphasized to hamper it's overall well balanced signature. The soundstage paired with it's tonality, give it a great sense of immersion for ALL manners of gaming and movies, etc. I base this value on overall package, and not just bass emphasis. The Annie is one of the most impressive and fun headphones all around.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



These are like the Q701, with a trade off of pure analytical detail-whoring, for an overall better balance between fun and competitive. Positional cues are just as good.





Spoiler: Comfort: 9/10 (Amazing)



A significant leap in comfort compared to the older models due to the flat/smooth headband which allows for more extension. The memory foam velours contour to head shape incredibly well, and aren't as sweat inducing as pleather/leather. The Annie is a light headphone as well. The only problem I foresee others having is that due to the size of the pads (like the older models), the pads may rest on the jaw which may cause some discomfort.





Spoiler: Overall: 9/10 (Amazing)



It's no secret how fantastic the Annies are to me. They will remain one of my top recommendations for all around purpose.



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AKG K712 Pro




Street Price: $379
Where To Buy: Amazon.com



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I'd like to personally thank guide contributor and friend, Evshrug for sending these out to me for review.

The K712 Pro, the latest and greatest AKG headphone to supersede the (in)famous 7xx line (K701, K702, Q701, K702 65th Anniversary Edition being the previous models) as AKG's best mid-fi headphone. I have been wondering just how different the K712 Pro is to my dearly departed K702 65th Anniversary. Turns out, not much (I wouldn't doubt that some people would find them near identical), but there are differences, however subtle they may be. Also need to mention that my K702 Anniversary was one of the earlier ones sold that had flatter/shorter pads, which may be the main difference between the Annie and K712's sonic differences. The K712 Pro had a lot to live up to, seeing as the Annie is more or less my favorite open dynamic headphone to date.

Build Quality:
Rating: Great

I'll basically paste what I've said about the K702 65th Anniversary, as the build is absolutely identical to the Annie. The only differences between the color differences (Annie is gunmetal with blue bars and accents, K712 Pro is black with orange bars and accents).

Made of a durable plastic, and well thought out design, I find the build quality to be great. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse. The detachable cable is like the non-Anniversary models, which isn't the thickest I've seen, but certainly very malleable, flexible, and light. It certainly does it's job, though I would have expected a more rugged, or fancier cable for these higher priced variants.

Compared to the non-Anniversary models of the K701/K702/Q701, the headband is thinner in width when viewed from the top/bottom, with a widening of the area where the AKG branding is located. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the K712 Pro from a torture device to a very comfortable headphone. There is no padding, but it is mostly unnecessary as the headband perfectly molds to your head, distributing pressure evenly across where it rests. The bumped headbands were notorious for digging into the scalp, especially on the center one or two bumps. Why it took AKG this long to rectify this issue the vast majority of people had is beyond me, but it's finally done.

The headband also has the added benefit of allowing bigger heads to fit due to less stiffness, and more space. Prior to the K712 Pro and K702 Anniversary, I basically needed the other models to be fully extended for them to fit my head. This caused a lot of tight, downwards pressure, which in addition to the hard bumps, didn't lead to the most comfortable headband design. It took me a few days to adjust to the older models, and I didn't find them as problematic as most people still do.

The pads are the second most significant change from the older models. They are made of memory foam inside velour. Very dense and molds to your head shape MUCH more than the older model pads. This causes a better seal, which is more than likely the main reason why the sound signature is warmer, and more bassy (from my experience with using a Q701 with the Annie pads, I found the Q701 to sound 99.9% the same as the Annie, with a slightly brighter tone which may have just been driver variation).

Accessories:





Spoiler: Review




Velvet carrying pouch: One of the best carrying pouches I've seen bundled with headphones. It's thick and feels great, though it won't protect a headphone from much except dust and scuff/scratches.
Long coiled cable (black)
Straight cable (orange) w/6.3mm screw on adapter

Comfort:
Rating: Amazing

As previously mentioned, due to the new headband and new pads, the K712 Pro has made a noticeable boost in comfort over the older models. The headband change is significant for comfort. The removal of the dreaded bumps would basically satisfy ANYONE who had issues with them on the older models, and even those that don't have issues with the bumps.

The pads are arguable, as the standard 7xx pads, while more firm, breathed a little easier than the new memory foam velours. In either case, neither are sweat inducing or uncomfortable, personally. The new memory foam pads molds to the shape of one's head, leading to no uneven pressure. I find the older models to be not as uncomfortable as most people would lead to believe, but the K712 Pro would more than likely satisfy those who have problems with the older pads.

The K712 pro is easily one of the most comfortable full-sized headphones I've ever worn.

Design Issues:

There really isn't anything to complain about with the K712 Pro. If anything, some may not particularly like how big the cups are, but that's the nature of a full-sized over ear headphone. AKG has more or less perfected their 7xx design, fixing all of the previous issues people had with them (headband bumps being the main problem). The only thing I can see improving upon this design is to add some padding underneath the currently bare headband strap, which would further drive the comfort towards perfection.

Isolation/Leakage:
Rating: Poor

The K712 Pro is a fully open headphone, and as such, it is expected not to perform well for noise isolation/leakage. As I mention time and time again, reports of open headphone's leak tend to be severely exaggerated. Yes, you may bother someone in the same room, but never someone in another room, even with the door open. Unless you need absolute silence in the same room, open headphones don't leak so loud as to bother most people, possibly even if they were in the same room.

Sound:
Rating: Amazing

People will undoubtedly complain about the incremental improvements constantly being made to their 7xx drivers, but to those who haven't experienced every little upgrade (or even those who have) will find the K712 Pro to be the their strongest headphones yet based on their 7xx drivers. What you get in the K712 Pro is the most musical, and fleshed out variant, with a noticeable addition of bass, warmth, and pleasing tonality. AKG had previously made most of these improvements with the K702 65th Anniversary (aka Annie), but the Annie had some trade offs, particularly in the sense of spaciousness (not necessarily soundstage itself), and upper range clarity and detail (which were slightly lessened due to a smoother, less fatiguing upper range). The Annie was a slightly different flavor of the K712 Pro sound, with a thicker body of sound, more intimacy, and smoother, slightly more organic sound. I'm exaggerating the differences, as they are subtle, but a good ear can tell them apart.

The K712 is the perfect middle ground between the standard 7xx airy sound, and the Annie's warmer, more fluid presentation.

NOTE: I'm basing my assessment of the Annie with it's ORIGINAL memory foam pads, which AKG has since replaced with a taller memory foam. The new pads on the Annie may have closed the gap even more between the two headphones to the point where it may be harder to discern the differences in sound quality. I haven't heard the Annie with new pads, so I can't personally confirm. Just something to keep in mind, in case those with a newer Annie don't agree with what I say here.

Bass:
Rating: Excellent

The K712 pro's bass is quite well balanced and always present, favoring midbass over sub bass (which rolls off a little compared to the K612 Pro which maintains it's bass to very low levels, though isn't energetic and forward as the K712 Pro). The bass is full, fluid, and rich, creating some warmth and body to the meat of the K712's sound. Because the bass is very, very similar to the K702 Annie's bass, I will quote most of what I said about those, with a few edits:

Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The K712 Pro presents bass quite well. You can consider it mildly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. Overall, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.

What it improves over the standard models is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the K712 Pro will impress. Make no mistake. I've always found the Q701, and particularly, the old K701 to be slightly below neutral. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the K712 Pro. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here. If you like accurate, yet full bass, the K712 pro will impress.

Mids:
Rating: Great

The K712 Pro's mids sit between the 7xx's mids and the Annie's more upfront and intimate presentation. The K712's mids sound pushed back in comparison to the Annie, though not pushed back in the way of recession, but more because the soundstage is large and nothing is exactly upfront and in your face. The lower mids are aided by the lean towards bass that the K712 has, which results in a warm, and tonally realistic voicing compared to the standard 7xx and even the incredibly balanced K612 Pro, which comes of a little dry in direct comparison.

The one downside I see in the mids is that the patented AKG upper mids peak is still somewhat present, causing certain sounds to have an artificial etch to them, and seem out of place next to the K712 Pro's general warmth and smoothness. It isn't as pronounced as the standard 7xx models however, and the warm tonality and fleshed out signature of the K712 mitigate the fatigue a bit compared to the standard 7xx.

All in all, the K712's mids are more or less balanced with the rest of the sound, and are never lost or masked.

Treble:
Rating: Great

The K712's treble maintains a level of sparkle some found lacking on the Annie. The treble is generally smooth with some upper end peak as usual of the 7xx line, cutting off some extension as well as the fatigue that can be associated with too much treble in those ranges. The K712's treble adds some much beneficial air to the soundstage, as well as clarity and detail which isn't typical of warm/smooth headphones (which tend to roll off in the treble range).

I personally have to say that I really love the K712's treble as it isn't an everyday occurrence to find warm headphones that sparkle in the same way as the K712. I also love the original Annie's smoother, less fatiguing presentation, but it did come across more subdued. I'd say the K712's treble is generally more favorable, and more likely to please most people.

Soundstage:
Rating: Excellent

While the original Annie had a large soundstage, the thicker body of sound and smoother treble made the soundstage sound more restricted and congested compared to the standard 7xx and K712. The K712's soundstage is spacious, and excels particularly in width. The soundstage is dimensional, holographic, and layered. The K612 Pro didn't have the same dimensionality and layering in direct comparison, despite it's large size.

Positioning:
Rating: Excellent

A large soundstage, generally linear balance, and great detail is a recipe for success. The K712 excels in positional cues, much like the standard 7xx line, but with more body, and fullness. One can argue that it won't be as masterful for competitive gaming focus due to the standard 7xx model's tilt towards analyzing and detail-retrieval, but the K712 doesn't give up much in the way of those things, and adds in extra immersion.

Clarity:
Rating: Excellent

Objectively speaking, the standard 7xx models as well as the K612 Pro have a clearer tonality over the warmer, more musical K712 Pro. That being said, the refinement, musicality, and tonality of the K712 Pro is more natural sounding and realistic in comparison. The standard 7xx sounds artificially boosted for clarity, which may be good for raw detail, but bad for enjoyment. The K712 has excellent clarity, and I don't feel like I'm losing much of anything when choosing the K712 over the standard 7xx models.

Amping:
Necessary

The K712 Pro doesn't require much to sound fantastic, but as with all 7xx models, they scale up with better gear and amping. I would recommend a decent desktop amp for these. That being said, I enjoyed the K712 Pro with the Fiio E12, and didn't feel I needed much more. I can easily live quite happily with the K712 Pro and FiiO E12.

Personal Recommendation?

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

The K712 Pro, is among my very favorite headphones I have ever heard, and currently my favorite open dynamic for all around use, even over the Philips Fidelio X1. If you're looking for the best all-rounder under $400, the K712 is one my absolute top recommendations. While I prefer the original Annie (flatter pads) for certain things (the mids and intimacy for music), the K712 has a better sound signature due to a clearer upper range and better sense of space which will benefit a larger amount of media, including gaming.

As a cheaper alternative, you can get a standard 7xx, and if you order some K712 pads for it, it essentially becomes a cheaper Annie/K712 Pro alternative for around $100 less than the Annie and K712 normally go for. It may not be completely identical, but it will be close. You also get the benefit of having both the standard pads as well as the K712 pads for easy swapping and tonality change. Your mileage may vary as driver variation needs to be taken into account. I recommend the K702 most for this, since it has a bumpless headband, while the K701 and Q701 still have the uncomfortable bumps, though will also benefit from this pad swap in the same exact way.

Final Impressions:

The K712 Pro has proven to be the best mid level AKG headphone in terms of musicality, refinement, and organic tonality. Yes, it doesn't stray far from that well known 7xx sound, but it eliminates most of what people disliked about them, while adding nearly all the things that were lacking (bass, warmth, organic sound). If you happen to like the standard 7xx and wished for more warmth, bass, and musicality, with less upper mid/lower treble fatigue, the K712 Pro demands your attention. I admit I was skeptical at first, seeing how much I love the original Annie and heard that the K712 reduced the intimacy. My fears were quelled, as the K712 gained it's own benefits over the smoother, original Annie, mainly in the addition of air/less congestion and upper range clarity.

I'm actually quite in love with the K712 Pro overall, and I find it to be a great endgame headphone for those without deep pockets. It's a safe bet to say that the K712 Pro is a headphone that I can recommend to practically anyone.





Spoiler:  Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)



The most immersive AKG headphone I've heard to date. Excellent bass response, natural sound, and spacious soundstage makes for a very fun headphone.





Spoiler:  Competitive: 8.75/10 (Excellent)



While the standard 7xx models may be more detail oriented for easier soundwhoring, the K712 Pro is no slouch with great clarity without the expense of immersion and fun factor in general.





Spoiler:  Comfort: 9/10 (Amazing)



Sharing the same exact comfort I loved in the K702 65th Anniversary, the K712 Pro is among the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. Auto adjusting headband, soft memory foam pads, and light frame. Not much more you can ask for.





Spoiler:  Overall: 9/10 (Amazing)



The K712 Pro is amazing, plain and simple. If you want a great all rounder that does practically everything well, the K712 Pro is an incredibly easy recommendation.




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----------

Audeze LCD-1





$399 as of November 2019
Where to buy: Audeze

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW*



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----------

Audeze LCD-2




Original LCD-2 (Rev. 2) DISCONTINUED. Replaced by LCD2C.



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I would like to personally thank Justin at Headamp for allowing head-fiers like myself to test out the Audeze LCD-2 at home for a few days. Without him and Headamp, I would have most likely never been able to demo these stellar, and extremely expensive headphones. The LCD-2 are one of the most popular, and highly regarded former flagships to date. Until the LCD-3's release, the LCD-2 was arguably known as the best headphone in the world in the $1500 or less price range. It's most popular and direct competitors in the price range at the time were the Hifiman HE-6, the Sennheiser HD800, Ultrasone Edition 8 and Signature Pro, among some others.

Build Quality:

I must say I'm not a big fan of the LCD-2's aesthetics. It has a very retro look to it, as if these were made in the 1940s. I'm sure there are many fans of it's look, but I'm not one of them. It looks clunky, way too large, and borderline utilitarian, in my opinion. The cups are made of wood (there are rosewood and bamboo variants, bamboo being lighter). I was sent the bamboo LCD-2, which I was hoping on, as the LCD-2 is quite heavy as is. The grills are black, with the Audeze grill design, with screws that protrude holding it in place. The headband adjustment is basically two long cylindrical rods, which look durable, but ugly as sin. The headband is padded with leather bumps, which aren't as offensive as the AKG K701/2/Q701 bumps. They aren't extremely soft, but get the job done. The cable input is a 4-pin XLR, which is leaps and bounds better than Hifiman's horrible screw-in type of connector.

The connectors are angled, which I'm a big fan of, as they allow the headphone cables to stick out a little in front of you, and not directly fall on your shoulders. The removable headphone cable looks straight out of 1940 as well, with small cables covering each channel and stuck together. While it's not the prettiest cable, I am a fan, as it's relatively flat, and should be mostly tangle-free. The termination is a very thich 6.3mm (1/4") plug, which screams rugged and durable. Unfortunately, there is no 3.5mm adapter of any kind, so you may want something like the Grado 1/4" to 3.5mm cable to connect to smaller devices. Due to the fact that the LCD-2 is actually pretty decent on lesser equipment (doesn't need a lot to sound good), you might wanna invest on such an adapter if you have a portable amp here or there. The LCD-2 is definitely not for portable use, but it can at least be transportable and enjoyable in that method.

The included pads are made of real leather (none of that pleather nonsense). They are angled, and VERY thick. Not the softest kind, but not hard either. I feel they are the right amount of firmness, personally. Audeze also sells vegan pads (which are more akin to something like velours) if you're like me, and prefer non-pleather/leather material.

As I briefly mentioned, the LCD-2 overall is a very retro, very heavy, very big, and of utilitarian design.

Comfort:

The LCD-2 is not exactly what I'd call comfortable. The weight is definitely a factor. They also have some clamp, which can be a bit strong. I'd bend the headband out to lessen this, but as these are not mine, I've left them untouched. I don't mind it's clamp personally, but I would prefer a bit less. My biggest issue is that even for an open-design headphone, they have that airplane cabin-pressure feeling once you put them on. It's as if the pads find a seal, and you get that suction feeling. It's a bit surprising and unpleasant, but the feeling goes away after awhile.

As always, leather builds up heat and induces sweat, but the effect is somewhat better with leather compared to pleather which tends to add stickiness into the mix. Thankfully, as I demoed the LCD-2, Florida was going through a pretty strong cold front, so the pads didn't bother me much. I still would have preferred the vegan pads, but beggars can't be choosers. The headband on the first day of use put pressure on the top of my noggin, which was quite uncomfortable. After a day, I was able to get used to the feeling. Certainly not as bad as the AKG headband bumps which never disappear off the head.

Overall, I'd say the comfort on the LCD-2 is passable. Not the worst, but not great. It's between decent to good.

Comfort is noticeably improved with the vegan/leather-free version, as it allows the ears to breathe, no sweat inducing leather, and the headband's bumps is softer, though not as plushy as I would like. Even better than the vegan headband is if you acquire the foam padded headband. The headband is made of durable metal, but the underside is line with very soft and comfortable foam, boosting comfort even more. With the foam headband, there is basically no pressure/hotspots, and all the weigh is distributed evenly. This leaves just the pads/clamp/weight to potentially cause discomfort.

Accessories:

You get the headphone, the cable, some stickers, and an AMAZING hard case. The case looks like it would survive a nuclear blast. Very impressive, to say the least. Not exactly something I'd keep in the the open, but it should offer extreme protection if you desire to use it.

Isolation/Leakage:

As an open-ear headphone, the LCD-2 isn't exactly isolating. It lets external noises in, and leaks out a LOT. You definitely do not want to use this in a room with people, or even in a separate room with the door open.

Sound:

To the meat of what everyone really wants to know. What does a $1000 headphone sound like? I must say... FANTASTIC. The tonal balance is quite warm, rich, creamy, and oooooh so seductive. The frequency response of the LCD-2 is VERY linear up until the upper mids, which then gently rolls off to a smooth treble range. This makes the LCD-2 like the HD650, in which is brings in a thick, musical, and non-fatiguing sound signature. In short, if I were to put the HE-400's bass with the HD650's mids and treble, with a pinch of refinement, the concoction would sound something like the LCD-2.

Is it all magical? Unfortunately, no. The LCD-2 has it's weaknesses. Number 1 being that the treble isn't what I'd consider natural. It's rolled off a bit. The smooth treble leads to very little airiness in the sound and somewhat congested and small-ish soundstage. Can't have it all, it seems. Let's get into the specifics...

update: The vegan LCD2 (leather free) mitigates the weakness in treble/congestion. It's slightly more open/airy, with a hint more treble sparkle. The downside is that it's not as velvety smooth as the leather LCD2. The difference is slight, and they're both quite warm/smooth, but it should be noted that there is SOME difference in tonality/treble section.

Bass:

The bass. Dear god. The bass. Incredibly full, textured, and very, VERY deep. Due to the extreme linearity of the LCD2's response, I can't say the bass is emphasized, because it is PERFECTLY in line with the mids. Seriously, if you look at the published graphs, you'd see, there is absolutely no real emphasis anywhere. Does that mean the bass is neutral and not very strong? Yes and no. The LCD-2 has bar none, the best bass I have ever heard on any headphone. Not the MOST bass, just the best overall.

While I personally prefer the Denon D7000's fun fueled bass with it's emphasized and omnipotent sub bass, it isn't accurate, and doesn't have very strong mid bass. It also tends to add bass where there shouldn't be none. The Ultrasone Pro 2900's bass is incredibly agile, and sharp, but lacks quite a bit in the sub-region. The LCD-2's bass is full in all areas and not just certain frequencies. When a source demands it, the LCD-2 hits like Thor's hammer, and in all other cases, presents itself very naturally. There is absolutely no lack of bass here. Just accurate, and always involved in a proper manner.

The closest competitor (with very similar bass) is the Hifiman HE-400. The LCD-2 further improves on the type of bass the HE-400 is known for with even more texture and fullness. Headphones should strive to have the type of bass that the LCD-2 has. It's that good.

Mids:

If you have read my HD650 review on this guide, you know how absolutely entranced I am by it's mids/vocals. What if I told you the LCD-2's mids are even better? That's right. The LCD-2's mids are incredibly intimate, haunting, and realistic. I have never heard vocals sound as if the singers were singing in the same room. This is as close as it's come to that. The best word for me to describe the mids is: NATURAL. Natural, organic, realistic, very detailed, and spine-chilling. Don't get me wrong, the HD650's mids are very, VERY close to this, but the LCD-2 just has that extra step that makes them stick out even more for me. Amazing. Absolutely.

Treble:

The treble range. This is the LCD-2's weak point in terms of it's frequency response. In order to make the bass and mids as special as they are, something had to give. Unfortunately, it's the treble range. Technically rolled off and smooth. This gives the LCD-2 lose out on air and soundstage, which leads to congestion/stuffiness. The lack of air paired up with the incredibly full notes tends to clash sounds together in comparison to other headphones with more treble, which is the LCD-2's biggest shortcoming. Personally, the treble is the least important aspect of sound to me now, as most music is in the bass and mids region of the sound spectrum. Treble aids in perceived clarity with sparkle and air, but it's not essential or integral. The LCD-2 is not undetailed or veiled sounding. However, the treble does lack sparkle in comparison to more neutral offerings. That is undeniable. This is one area that it truly shares with the HD650. However, I feel the LCD-2 is quicker and more aggressive, so it doesn't sound laid back like the HD650.

Update: The vegan (leather free) LCD2 has treble quite close to the bass/mids, just slightly rolled off. This means, that the treble range's weakness is a little more improved. In order to gain that slight bit of clarity/treble, a hint of warmth/smoothness was lost, though the vegan LCD2 is still decidedly on the warm side of neutral. Good news is that the bass and mids sound just like the leather LCD2. What this means, is that vegan LCD2 has a slight hint of sparkle, whereas the leather LCD2 is slightly smoother and warmer.

Soundstage:

As mentioned before, the lack of air and the congestion due to it's smooth treble response leads to a soundstage that is more akin to a closed headphone. Like a closed headphone with a large soundstage, but disappointing for an open headphone.

I directly compared the LCD-2 with my K702 65th Anniversary which is also warm/smooth.

The LCD2 is a bit intimate and closed in. The LCD-2 for gaming (with Dolby Headphone) fared quite a bit better. Soundstage opened up, with a very good sense of depth and relatively decent width. Not very large, but there was ample space to allow positional cues space to do their magic.

Update: Having recently acquired a pair of vegan (leather-free) LCD2s, I have to say the suede-ish pads breathe easier, and gives the sound more space and air. It's no K702, but the soundstage is medium sized, with nice separation in comparison to the leather LCD2.

Positioning:

Positional cues were surprisingly very good. I had zero issues locating sound placement, though lesser headphones with less thickness made it easier to pinpoint sounds. The LCD-2 is one of the better headphones I have heard in terms of rear depth, which is incredibly beneficial for positional cues.

Clarity:

Clarity for gaming is actually pretty good. That linear response in bass and mids gives the LCD-2 quite a detailed sound for gaming, even borderline analytical at times (like the HD650, which was also surprisingly detailed for gaming), while softening just the impact of the more annoying sounds like gun fire and glass shattering enough to reduce ear fatigue. You get fullness AND clarity. Not many headphones that do both.

Update: The vegan LCD2 (leather free) is even clearer than the leather pads, where the highest peak in the treble is just under the main bass/mid line. This in practice = very linear sound signature, which means almost all areas of sound are in line with verything else. For gaming, this means a very detailed sound. The leather LCD2 first reviewed had a bigger treble roll off, so it was a little warmer and smoother in comparison. They both sounded near the same, but the difference is there, albeit, very slightly.

Amping:

The LCD-2 is surprisingly easy to power for a planar magnetic headphone, requiring minimal amping to sound good. I was able to use it with the Mixamp alone, though I would still recommend some amping to truly make this $1000 worth the purchase. No reason to skimp out here when you've aready spent so much money on the headphone alone. The LCD-2 is known to scale up quite a bit, as it can handle a ridiculous amount of power, despite not needing much to hit the ground running. It certainly improved in refinement when I used paired the Mixamp up with my Compass 2 which does 2 watts at 50ohm. The LCD-2 can handle even more than that.

Value:

Value is certainly questionable. It costs an exhorbitant amount of money, and you can get by with much, much less for gaming in particular.

Final Impressions:

The LCD-2 is a truly stunning headphone with the best bass and mids I have heard to date. That being said, as far as gaming goes, there are headphones better suited that cost MUCH less. It however, a top tier headphone that will impress on almost all fronts with few weaknesses. You get lots of warmth, musicality, fullness, and truly organic sound. Treble, air, and congestion are it's weaknesses, but the overall package is so fantastic, you can forgive these faults once everything is taken into account. This is one headphone I suggest people use for gaming if you happen to own them, though I certainly wouldn't buy them with gaming as the top priority. It is certainly better for non-gaming needs, though hold their own for gaming, especially for casual/fun gaming.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 9 (Fantastic)



Incredible warmth, bass texture, mids, and fullness, for lots of immersion.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7.25 (Good)



Great clarity and detail, decent soundstage in Dolby Headphone with good rear positional cues.





Spoiler: Comfort: Leather: 6.5. Vegan: 7.0. Foam Headband: 7.25 (Decent/Good/Pretty Good)



Heavy, and clampy, but not completely offensive. It's passable. Vegan version is easier on the ears, with less heat buildup. The vegan headband doesn't dig in as strongly into the scalp as the leather headband. The foam headband is even better. Softer, and no pressure on top of the head whatsoever.





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----------

Audeze LCD-GX

$899 MSRP as of August 2019

Where To Buy: Audeze
*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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----------

Audeze Mobius


$399 as of April 2019
Where to buy: Audeze, Amazon.com
(Review as of April 2019's latest firmware and software updates)

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



----------
----------

*Audeze Penrose*


$299.00 as of December 2020
Where To Buy: Audeze

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW*



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----------

Beyerdynamic T70




Where to buy: Amazon


Spoiler: Review



Please take a look at my full review of the Beyerdynamic T70 over at Headphone.guru

The T70 for gaming purposes excels for competitive gaming, with abundant clarity, and a nice, wide soundstage, despite it's closed back nature. It will perform admirably for FPS gaming where it can pick out the finest of details.

Where the T70 lacks in is it's immersion. The bass is a bit on the lean side, and makes the T70 less than ideal for casual, immersive gaming.





Spoiler: Fun 6.5/10 (Decent)



The T70 isn't completely devoid of bass or warmth, but it is a bit lean, and I wouldn't recommend it as a casual gaming headphone.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.5/10 (Great)



Quite possibly the clearest sounding closed headphone I've heard outside of the Alpha Dog. Due to less fullness in the bass, it is even more clarity oriented, though it's soundstage isn't as open or as deep.





Spoiler: Overall: 7/10 (Good)



The T70 is a very elegant sounding headphone, leaning considerably towards detail extraction and clarity. It is a high class, high priced headphone, unfortunately lacking in musicality, making it a hard sell at it's price range for gamers and casual music listeners.



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----------

Denon D7000

DISCONTINUED



Spoiler: Review



Normally, I wouldn't be recommending you spend anywhere near the price of the D7000 for gaming needs, but since I happened to own them, I'll went ahead and critiqued them. This may or may not be a surprise, but they are absolute gaming monsters. Despite them being closed, there is a great soundstage, with plenty of depth and width. Pinpointing directional sounds around you is a BREEZE. Detail is in everything you can focus on. If you happen to own the D7000 and something with Dolby Headphone, you need not look further for your pleasureable gaming needs. The bass is so magnificently present without it smearing over the rest of the frequencies. The mids are very good though obviously take a step back because of the bass and pronounced treble. The treble is sparkly but not overly prone to fatiguing. They are also GREAT for hardcore gaming, but in all honesty, the bass is so good, you'll find yourself paying attention to it when you should be picking up the finer details, which is why I'd still choose something with quicker, and less present bass. Still, the D7000 they can do it all, and do it well.

Comfort-wise, the D7000 is very comfortable overall. The pads are soft, luxurious, and the headphone feels good on the head, for the most part. Personal distaste for pleather aside, the D7000 is damn comfortable. Personal gripe: The headband is big and can feel awkward as you move around. It's not the most secure fit.


Fun: 10/10 (Incredible)
Competitive: 8.25/10 (Great)
Comfort: 8/10 (Great)

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Drop + THX  Panda






_$400 as of February 2020._
Where to buy: Indiegogo

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW*



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*Drop x Sennheiser 8XX*


$1100
*Where To Buy*: *Drop*
*Click HERE to go to the FULL 8XX Review!*

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Fostex TH-600




Price as of Feb 2016: N/A


Spoiler: Review



Please head on over to Headphone.guru for my full Fostex TH-600 review!



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Grado WH1 'The White Headphone'





$795 as of September 2019 (limited until end of 2019)
Where to buy: TTVJ Audio

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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HiFiMAN Ananda






$849 as of May 1st, 2019, ($999 msrp)

Where To Buy: Amazon.com, Headphones.com, Hifiman



Spoiler: Review



_Disclaimer 1: A special thanks to HiFiMAN for sending these out as part of a loaner tour. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.

Disclaimer 2: Due to how recent the Edition XX reviews was to this one, and how similar I find them to be, there WILL be some pasting and re-wording of that review here, as I feel the similarities are close enough that I don't feel the need to outright do a completely 'blank slate' review of the Ananda. If that bothers you, I apologize, but it was either that or just not review the Ananda and give brief impressions instead, since most of what I feel about it is exactly how I feel about the Edition XX. So again, there will be some copypasting in some sections, and restructured sentences that come directly from the XX review, with alterations made to fit my Ananda impressions. Thanks for your understanding._

Hot off the heels of the Massdrop Edition XX review, I saw that HiFiMAN were doing a loaner tour for the Ananda, and I figured I'd enlist to see what sort of product the Massdrop Edition XX compared to in HiFiMAN's general lineup.



Build Quality:

The Ananda looks a lot like the XX with the exception of the premium hybrid headband. The cup design, cables, shape are all identical to the XX otherwise.


Headband:

The new hybrid headband design is immediately the first area on the Ananda that stands out compared to the Edition XX's basic, old school leather headband. The hybrid headband is solidly built, sleek matte black metal with some silver accents. There is a suspended, slim leather strap that allows the headphone to rest on the top of the head with near-perfect weight distribution. This is easily among the best styles of headbands in both durability and comfort.

The metal yokes connecting the cups to the headband are also metal, and are reminiscent to Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990, in which they have a lot of grip, making hard to adjust the size extension, and having the unfortunate side effect of leaving marks near the 'dots' that indicate how short or how tall you have adjusted each side.

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of the extension become easier and easier to adjust as these metal parts wear out more and more. Just don't count on it to ever travel smoothly between the dots.

There is a slight downside to the new headband design. Unlike the old headband which allowed some swivel horizontally, the hybrid headband's yokes only swivel up and down, so there may be a less perfect fit for some people.


Cups:

Since the cups are identical to the Edition XX review, I'll be pasting most of what I said there.

The cups just ooze quality. I have experienced headphones with piano finishes, glossy/wooden finishes, slotted metallic finishes, and quite a few others, but I'd say I vastly prefer the tastefully silver and black open grill design on the Ananda. It is without a doubt one of the best looking cup designs I have seen on an open headphone. You can see right through the magnetic trace array to the other side, signifying just how open the Ananda truly is. The cups are asymmetrical, and are comically large in size. They will easily swallow the side of your head.


Pads:

Since the pads are identical to the Edition XX review, I'll again be pasting most of what I said there.

I'm absolutely ecstatic at HiFiMAN's decision to continue using synthetic leather pads with a fabric top where the pads rest on the skin. The use of synthetic leather for seal also ensures that there is no sound escaping between your ears and the drivers unlike full velour or other fully fabric covered pads.

The openings for the ear are incredibly generous in size, whether width, height, or depth. It is so big, and allows the humongous driver surface area to emit sound unobstructed even well beyond your ear shape. This likely aids in providing a truly tall soundstage. This may actually be one of, if not my favorite design of pads ever on a full sized headphone. There is so much space for sound to travel around your ears, it adds a new dimension in headphone listening. There is very thin fabric covering the driver area, which shouldn't cause any discomfort if your ears bottom out on the pads."

The pads are held by some tabs, which aren't hard to feel out, making it easy to pop the pads off or snap back on if need be.


Cables:

The Ananda comes with two cables. A short cable that is similar to the one used on the XX, which terminates into a right angled 3.5mm plug with a 1/4" snap on adapter. The other is quite a bit longer and terminates into a beefy, straight 1/4" Neutrik plug (the XX does not come with this cable). The cables also look similar to the XX cable, but they are see through (you can see the inner wires), whereas the XX cable is see through but covered with an inner sleeve of some kind. Also the dual 3.5mm mono plugs that connect on the headphone side are silver on the Ananda, and black on the XX.

The cables are a drastic improvement over my HE-400's old style connector which was personally a nightmare to deal with in terms of attaching/detaching, as well as in durability. My HE-400's cable already has exposed wiring due to those questionable connectors, even though I rarely use my HE-400 to begin with. It still works, but it's quite unsightly. The Ananda connectors being a very familiar 3.5mm, makes them a breeze to connect and disconnect.


Final Build Quality Impressions:

The hybrid headband makes the Ananda look and feel considerably more premium than the classic headband used on the Massdrop Edition XX. While I've never had a problem with the old headband in general, this is a considerable step up in aesthetics, construction, and comfort. The complaints being that they only swivel vertically, and don't allow for minor horizontal movement. That and the size adjustment is every bit as rough and hard as the old headband, if not more so, leaving marks on the metal.

As for everything else, the Ananda is exceptionally built through and through. This is easily the best looking HiFiMAN headphone I've experienced to date. They look AND feel premium.



Accessories:

The loaner unit sent to me came what I assume to be the retail box, which looks and feels every bit as premium as the headphones themselves. Inside you'll find a booklet, warranty card, and a compartment for the two included cables, and padded walls for the headphones.



Comfort:

The Ananda, like the XX, is unsurprisingly in the upper echelons of comfort for a headphone of this size.

Weight:

The Ananda weighs in at 399 grams, which is just 21 less than the XX (420 g). I personally don't feel the difference between them. It may not be the lightest planar headphone out there, but there have been much, much heavier headphones.

Headband:

The Ananda's weight is almost perfectly distributed thanks to the suspension style leather strap. The leather strap has a suede underside, which allow it to rest comfortably without excessive heat buildup. While I never had any major issues with the classic headband used on older HiFiMAN headphones as well as the Edition XX, it's certainly worth mentioning that the hybrid headband used on the Ananda is even better, and a marked improvement in both looks and comfort. The only thing I'd like is if the strap had a little more give, as on my large head it's pretty much fully stretched out so there is SOME force being applied to my head. I don't see this being a problem for nearly anyone else, and it really is just a minor gripe, not a real problem.


Ear pads:

The ear pads are so large and spacious, I can't help but feel like they are absolutely sublime and among the very best in design, shape, size and depth. They aren't the most plush, and don't compress too easily. The surface contact area is quite large and depending on your head shape and size may or may not rest in uncomfortable areas on the side of your face. Personally, the pads rest in all the right spots on my head. Though due to the slight clamp, does make their presence obvious. On one hand, the huge size allows for such a large, immersive sound, but on the other, slightly smaller pads would likely feel just a little more comfortable, since these pads do touch such a large surface area around my ears.


Clamp:

Like the Edition XX, the pads press in towards my head just a bit more than I like. It's not a 'clampy' headphone by any stretch of the word, but it was enough for me to notice. This area is completely subjective, as too much is almost as bad as too little, and I'm very picky with clamp forces in general.


Final Comfort Impressions:

Despite what I've said about clamp (again, subjective opinion), If I had to give comfort a rating, I'd put it under great, as the Ananda is one of few headphones I can wear all day without feeling truly fatigued by them. I readjust here and there, but I have used them for 8+ hour sessions daily without any real complaints. That says a LOT. They're really good, great even, as stated before. This gets a recommendation for me in terms of full sized headphone comfort. Had they weighed as little as say, the HE-4, and had slightly looser clamp, they would have scored likely near the top out of all the full-sized headphones I have used.

Despite this being a repeat of what I said of the XX, the Ananda gets a half point boost in comfort due to the leather strap making weight distribution even better.



Noise Control:

Like the XX, and as you may have guessed just by looking at the Ananda, it is a very poor performer in isolation and leakage typical of its design. Seriously, don't expect any privacy in or out. You will want at least one room with the door closed between you and the next person if you need to keep it quiet.



Sound:

The Ananda shares a lot of what I've said of the XX, though there is a more neutral tonality, and the Ananda adds a little more clarity in the details, and definition. A lot of what I wrote about the XX applies here, so some may be repeated here, but I will attempt to add in the Ananda specific improvements.



Bass:

The bass is absolutely magnificent. The pluck of low range strings, the subterranean rumble in the deepest depths, and the thump demanded of today's electronic music is all there, and is represented masterfully. Nothing is overbearing, nothing sounds dronish, and it all honestly just sounds...correct, musical, and energetic without overindulgence, or anemia. Planarmagnetic headphones in general almost always represent bass well. The Ananda is no exception and highlights how accurate, defined and impactful bass should be.

Doing some frequency tests, it can be appreciably felt all the way down to 20hz, and is balanced all the way up to the upper bass limits. As far as frequencies go, nothing in the bass ranges sticks out. Just pure balance, and represented evenly without emphasis or outright deficiencies. Quantity is hard to define, but I think at the very least, most will agree it is either close to neutral. Not enough to be basshead level, but enough to satisfy those who like a good amount of body, and fullness. So objectively, I'd say around the neutral line, but subjectively natural, true to life.

In terms of speed, I feel the Ananda's speed in bass is faster and above the middle ground. Nimble, not slow of decay. It rumbles as long as it needs, and thumps with the agility one would expect of something perceptively correct. I've not heard much faster without thinness, and I have definitely heard much slower. Bass should have some decay, and it absolutely shouldn't linger too long. So for me, the Ananda bass speed is close to ideal.

If you're someone who enjoys bass, and have plenty of bass driven sources, you will not be disappointed with the Ananda. This, however, isn't basshead bass. To my perception, this is bass how it is supposed to sound. So give it some bass heavy tracks, and listen to the Ananda absolutely jam out. Give it bass light tracks, and the XX remains reigned in. Put on an action film with explosions, and feel every rumble. There is plenty of fun, immersion, and energy, as well as restraint and control.

There's excellent layering and texture all around. Not much more I can say without repeating what I've said in the beginning: The bass is absolutely magnificent. I don't have tools to measure distortion or the technical aspects of the bass, but subjectively, I will always hold my opinion in saying the Ananda's bass is excellent to my ears. If someone asked me what I think bass is supposed to sound like, I'd easily point them in the Ananda's direction. I don't think there's such a thing as 'much better' than the quality of bass on display here.



Midrange to treble:

The bass is not ever intrusive to any part of the midrange which will be beneficial in midrange clarity. The midrange is relatively well balanced and subjectively linear to my ears throughout most of the spectrum, though pushed back in forwardness. Vocals and other midrange aspects aren't as full as some of the more intimately voiced headphones. The presentation of sound isn't as forward as more neutral/balanced headphones. The Ananda will come off as slightly v-shaped.

Let me at least talk about specific frequencies. These are my notes: Ananda dips slwoly at 1100khz to 1800khz, rise to around 4khz hotspot, dip after 5khz, 7khz hotspot, 7khz starts drop off to 7.5k (lowest point) , rise to 8khz, then drop off again to around 9khz, then slight rise to 10khz, good presence to 13khz with slow roll off to 16khz.

The most laid back areas then are the area between 7khz and 9khz (not all of it, as there is energy at 8.5khz or so). In terms of hot spots, while the most prominence to me is between 4khz and 7khz, it isn't piercing or overly zingy.

To sum up the midrange to treble sections, I'd say that the Ananda in these areas is slightly laid back but quite detailed in the very top end. Low midrange is linear and warm, higher midrange to low treble is a slightly laid back, and top end treble sparkles and extends quite well.

When comparing the Ananda to the Edition XX, I feel the XX is ever so slightly warmer in tonality, with slightly more distant midrange, but it's hard to truly consider it much different. They share a definitive house sound to my ears.



Soundstage and Imaging:

With no processing:

The Ananda's soundstage is very much planar-like, which means that it won't be as wide as the best open dynamic headphones out there, but gain in other areas. Planars tend to lose out on soundstage width but win out in depth and overall projection of a sonic image. A medium sized soundstage in terms of width, but with a noticeable strength of soundstage height, and excellent planar depth.

The imaging properties of the Ananda are good, a little better than the Edition XX's imaging, which sounds slightly more hazy and diffused. The ability to draw an object in the virtual space is sharper on the Ananda, though I have other headphones with sharper imaging properties, like the HE-400.

That being said, I do find the Ananda to sound CONSIDERABLY 'bigger' and more room filling. Directly comparing it to my HE-400 (the HE400 equipped with Dekoni Audio DT elite velour pads and which has an excellent amount of soundstage depth and good width), I feel the Ananda has it beat in allowing the sound to envelop a bigger, taller space. The HE-400 almost sounds compressed next to the Ananda. It is an obvious difference in the presentation of sound. The Ananda sounds more lifelike and less like a headphone.

All in all, if you like complete intimacy, there are better options than the Ananda, as the Ananda does put you a little bit further away in comparison to closer presentations like the HD650 or LCD2. It's less "small lounge/front row", and more "concert hall/middle row". The soundstage is less headphone-esque, and so it won't put everything right in your face or in your head. I can't understate how impressive and how different the presentation is compared to a typical headphone.

With surround processing:

The Ananda is pretty brilliant when using surround dsps, like Dolby Atmos, SBX, Dolby Headphone, and others. It projects outward as well as the better headphones I have heard, with a truly expansive soundstage in all manner of its virtual dimensions. This makes the Anada an excellent tool for virtual surround gaming, or movie watching. In terms of sheer soundstage size, I believe a good dynamic like the AKG K702 has it beat particularly in width, though I still wouldn't dismiss the more natural quality to the Ananda's soundstage shape. Strictly as a gaming headphone with surround, there are better options, but the Ananda does it just fine. No real complaints. It manages to beat the XX I have on hand by a slight margin due to slightly more focused, sharper details.


Clarity:

I do believe and would defend the Ananda's detail retrieval, but the slightly laid back balancing will not appease the more detail-oriented ears out there, or those who prefer the 'up close and personal' types of headphones where the sound is more forward and intimate.

The bass has excellent speed, clarity and texture keeping it from muddying up details, the midrange is evenly balanced with just a slight tilt downwards, and the treble has a good sparkle, shimmer and is quite extended, but that drop off at 7-9khz does soften that range a bit. I think if they had kept that area more in line with the rest of the sound, the XX would have been a mostly neutral, supremely balanced headphone, which also comes with a possible problem of grating on the ears in those ranges. The clarity of its air is good, and sometimes great if the source isn't demanding a lot of low end. Not the most airy of headphones, mind you, but it can do that aspect well at times.

I'd say the clarity overall is very good throughout most of the frequencies and classify the overall sound as clear and detailed if a little laid back.



Sound Signature:

It isn't the final word on ultimate neutrality, as it ever so slightly treads towards being a little v-shaped. A neutral-warm v-shape, with good high end extension, keeping the Ananda from sounding muddy or veiled. So if you like warm, warm headphones, the Ananda is NOT that, nor is it cold/analytical. Neutral warmth with sparkle is how I'd put it to my ears. Slightly more neutral compared to the slightly warmer XX.



Amplification:

At 25ohm with sensitivity at 103db, these are certainly easy to drive planars, though I wouldn't go so far as to claim these are perfect straight out of a laptop, tablet, or cellphone. At the very least, any portable amp worth two cents and can hit high volume levels should be pretty good. My recommendation is to give it at least a decent portable amp's amount of power, as I feel they don't quite hit high volume levels even off a Sennheiser GSX1000 unless I max the volume out, which is far from ideal. For example, the volume off something like a Nintendo Switch was on the moderately lower side of my preferences. That makes it impractical for such a purpose.

In terms of what type of amp flavor makes sense for the Ananda, considering its slightly more neutral-tilted than the XX (SLIGHTLY), it isn't picky with what type of flavor of amplification you give it. If you want to enhance its details, pick a brighter amp. If you want a more musical sound, add a tube amp. Seriously, the Ananda doesn't care. It will pair up well with whatever you want to use.



Gaming:

The Ananda makes for a very high quality headphone for gaming. Even if you play strictly in stereo, unprocessed, focused, and hardcore, the excellent soundstage height and depth really have an added layer of immersion not found in many other headphones. The tonal balance really allows for anything from fun, casual gaming, to serious tournament play, though be aware that the area of sound between 7-9khz in particular is low in volume compared to the rest of sound. I personally think that area is more sheen than important sound effects, but it's something needing mention. For gaming with virtual surround (as I do), there's really not much better than what the Ananda has to offer. The soundstage, and positional cues are excellent, as can be expected from all the things I've mentioned before.



Personal Recommendations

Media:

The Ananda makes a strong case in terms of a headphone for all use cases, except maybe pure analysis of sound or if vocal intimacy is desired. Music is highly enjoyable and dynamic, gaming is an absolute pleasure, and even anime watching (which tends to always sound crisp/bright 99% of the time) is a treat. I believe they tuned the Ananda to be on the enjoyable side for most content thrown at it, and if so, they succeeded in that mission. I think perhaps some people will expect the Ananda to have flagship-y voicing in terms of detail-retrieval and microscopic analysis of sources. The Ananda is not that. A broader, more consumer-friendly sound is what I'm hearing with the Ananda.


Real world practicality:

I would keep the Ananda strictly as a home or private office headphone. It makes a poor choice in terms of portable or transportable uses due to the size, and extremely open design.



Likes and Dislikes:

Pros:





Spoiler: Review




Soundstage height and depth
Really natural and high quality bass
Non-fatiguing even with good treble extension
Comfort
Slightly better definition and clarity to the details compared to the XX


Cons:

7-9khz drop off
Size extension hard to adjust



Final Impressions:

Sonically speaking, I can't find much fault here. It isn't perfect, and the mostly balanced, slightly laid back sound will not best the more specialized headphones in terms of basshead uses, detail orientation, midrange-centric duties, etc. The price of having a broad spectrum of things well usually means it won't be the best in any one thing, but it also allows the Ananda to be more appealing to a larger crowd. Those who want a headphone that does well in most areas overall. If detail retrieval and clinical analysis is the most important aspect to you, there are better options, at lesser cost. However, the total amount of strengths the Ananda has in most aspects of sound far outweigh any negative traits.

The Ananda is one of those headphones that make me feel like they're the only one I'd ever need at home. HiFiMAN has brought out a truly spectacular headphone overall.

For those that wanna really know the big difference between the Ananda and the Massdrop Edition XX, it's mainly in the sound signature being ever so slightly more neutral, midrange being a little clearer, with sharper imaging and object detail. The XX is softer sounding, more laid back, and details are a little more diffused/hazy in comparison. The Ananda is a more refined headphone, with similar house sound.



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HiFiMAN HE-4

Sells for $450.


Spoiler: Review



I feel I should add these to the list as I did own them for quite a bit and loved them almost as much as my D7000, and more than the rest. That being said, while they are one of my fave headphones I have owned, they are in the middle of the pack in terms of gaming either competitively or for fun. First, they are ridiculously illogical to use, as they require a substantial amount of power to drive properly. The E9 was driving them loudly, but the dynamics were clearly lacking. I've never heard a headphone sound loud, yet so inadequate, but there you have it. I specifically bought the Schiit Lyr for these back then. It was a huge difference. So yeah, imagine having to attach something like the Lyr to the Mixamp to give the HE-4 some Dolby Headphone love? I'm a man of certain passions, so I did just that. You can forget about trying to drive these with the Mixamp alone. It was very, very low in volume, let alone dynamics.

Now how did they perform? Well enough. The HE-4 distinctly reminds me of a cross between the DT880 and premium DT990. Seriously, take both of them, fused them together, add some good refinement, and you have the HE-4. What was lost in that fusion was a little bit of the soundstage size. Don't get me wrong, the HE-4's soundstage is large, airy, and spacious. They just have less depth to it that the other planars I have tested, but more width.

They are VERY detailed headphones, with plenty of bass impact, but not nearing the DT990s in this regard, and energetic treble close to the quantity of the DT880.

Comfort-wise, the HE-4 has one of the BEST headband designs out of all the headphones I have owned/used, with the exception of the suspension style headbands. The HE-4 uses a Grado style headband which lays pretty flat on your head, and conforms to the shape of your head, so it distributes weight wonderfully. I wish more headphones had this style headband. The pads, hmm, the velour pads. They are wonderful. One the comfort side, they feel great. They aren't too soft, or too firm. However, the issue is the point where the cushiony part of the pads meet the part connected to the drivers. There is a not so subtle hard texture there, and it HURTS if your ears touch it. It feels like hardened glue or something. I was able to rotate the pads enough to where I wasn't hitting the hard part, but your mileage may vary.

Note: While they may not be the highest scoring headphones in either fun or competitive gaming, you need to understand that it's overall quality is absolutely amazing. So if you feel there is a discrepancy, it's because this review was posted before I got into the specifics of the sound, and how refined and detailed the HE-4 actually is.


Fun: 7.75/10 (Very Good)
Competitive: 7.75/10 (Very Good)
Comfort: 8.75/10 (Excellent)
Overall 8.75/10 (Excellent)



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HiFiMAN HE-400




Sells for $400.


Spoiler: Review



Updated: 8/30/2012: The earlier impression was with the Mixamp alone. I didn't notice at the time, but after having used the E17 to help the Mixamp power the HE-400, they improved enough to warrant some pretty significant edits to this entry. Please read on to see the updated impressions, and score.

While I bought the E17 due to wanting the bass and treble control, as well as a portable DAC, those wanting the HE400 who want to help the Mixamp power the HE-400 only need something like the E11/E9/E09K (if you're not looking for a DAC for non-gaming use).

Before I start, let me clarify something: This impression is of the HE-400 Rev. 2 using the Hifiman velour pads, instead of the stock pleather pads. The Hifiman velours can be bought from Head-Direct for $10. Why the velour? The velour pads give the HE-400 a cleaner, more refined sound, with less tradeoffs. The bass remains the same, the mids are pushed up, and treble is better fleshed out (the pleather pads give the HE-400 some pesky and uneven treble peaks). It has also been tested by many of us on Head-fi, myself included. The clarity is noticeably improved, as well as lifting the slight veil and darkness that the pleather pads have. Can't forget that velour is MUCH better than pleather in comfort, IMHO. No more sweaty, sticky pleather touching the skin. You all know how I feel about pleather.

Bass:

This is what I'd consider one of the most natural sounding bass in terms of quantity and quality that I've heard. Is it bass light? No. Is it bass heavy? No. So what IS the bass? Well, the bass is just what it is... BASS. When a song asks for lots of bass, the HE-400 surely does not disappoint. It is NOT an aggressive bass like most bass heavy headphones that tend to impart bass to things that shouldn't have bass. For example: The D7000 (which has my fave bass presence in a headphone), still tends to sound bass heavy on bass light recordings. The HE-400 only adds bass if it's there to begin with. In reality, you can say that the bass IS emphasized, because bass neutral cans don't tend to have the power and impact that the HE400's bass has. So let's call it mildly bass emphasized, but just absolutely lovely in any which way. You put a bassy song, and you'll never think to yourself "Hmm, this could use more bass". It's that good. This is the type of bass that bassheads looking for actual quality can appreciate. I'd put the actual quantity between the DT880 and DT990. The quality of the bass isn't as clean as the Pro 2900 and Q701, but it's easily fuller sounding, and more realistic. Once I added the E17 to help drive the Mixamp, the bass became more present, and fuller. It really added some meat to the sound. I'd call it emphasized, but not DT990 level of strong.

Mids:

Very natural sounding mids overall, but recessed in the upper range. They're well balanced mids for the most part. With certain recordings, the mids are right where they need to be, and with other recordings, the mids may be slightly pushed back in the upper ranges. The mids are not hindered by the bass. Even with the E17's various bass boosts, they never hampered the mids in any way. Must be planar magic.

Treble:

This is what I was most skeptical about when I read up on the HE-400. Many times I have read that the treble was too dark, too smooth, and lacking air. The previous HE-400 may have actually had that issue, but the current batches do not have this issue. The stock HE-400 with pleather has a tendency to be smooth in certain ranges of the treble, and peaky on others. Uneven treble that can be dark or bright. The velour pads lets the treble behave in a more uniform manner, being bright overall, but that's in comparison to the overall tonality of the headphone which is dark everywhere else. They sound crisp enough and sparkly. Due to how warm/dark the headphone is UP UNTIL the treble range, it's a bit jarring to have such lively treble. It can be fatiguing at times. I'd say this is the one biggest weakness in the HE-400 in an otherwise fantastic headphone. It's not a very fatiguing headphone overall, but the treble is out of place with the rest of the spectrum. Still, it's a minor gripe in a mix of greatness.

Soundstage:

I'm not a soundstage nut when it comes to non-gaming purposes, and I find the HE-400's soundstage to be medium sized. Not small, and not big. I guess those used to something like the Q701's soundstage may feel the loss of sheer size, but I don't have a problem with it whatsoever. To me, what is lost, is gained everywhere else. The HE-400 sounds less like a headphone, and more like two speakers strapped to the side of your head. Literally haven't heard anything like it. It's airy, and sounds are place all around you, and less next to your ears like standard headphones. The depth wasn't exactly great off the Mixamp alone, but once I added the E17 to help amp the HE-400, the depth improved for sure, enough to truly help with the positional cues.

Positioning:

How did the HE-400 fare for gaming? Well... it did pretty good. About as good as the HE-4 if not slightly better in terms of positioning. They both are both better than the DT880 in terms of positional cues, which is to say, they could do better, but will do their job. Not quite on the level of the AD700, Q701, K701, DT990, DT770 Pros, D7000, etc, but pretty good. So if you're looking for an amazing, fun, and competitive headphone, the HE-400 is a in a good place, assuming you help the Mixamp with an additional amp to open add some depth to the soundstage.

Amping :

The HE-400 is unlike the HE-4, in that it doesn't require the power of Zeus to get it to sing well. A portable amp will make them sound great. A desktop amp would be even better. How did it do with the Mixamp? Honestly? It needs an additional amp to give the HE400 some headroom. The HE400 can be loud enough with certain games, and not loud enough for others. HOWEVER, they are clearly lacking in driving force. The dynamics were lacking. Bass was slightly reserved in comparison, mids were a teeny bit distant, the soundstage depth was constricted with the Mixamp alone. This was what gave them just barely better than DT880 performance in terms of positioning prior to this updated impression. Once I added the Fiio E17 to the chain (the E11 would be a cheaper alternative with simlar amp performance) after the Mixamp, the depth really improved, as did positioning. Not as good as the DT990, but good enough to be borderline great.

Playing Mass Effect 3, I had to literally max the volume out when using the Mixamp alone, and it was clearly lacking some oomph. So yes, you may want some amp on hand to give the HE-400 the energy it needs to truly bless you with some godly sound. I added the E17, and I couldn't believe how much better gaming with the HE400 became.

Comfort:

I find them comfortable, a little behind of the HE-4 which is lighter, and the velours are softer vs the HE400. The stock pleather pads are actually pretty good for comfort, as they aren't going to cover your face in pleather, though they still get hot and sticky. The velours however are just the right amount of firm/softness and plenty breathable. You will notice that the HE-400 IS a pretty heavy headphone. One of the heaviest headphone I've owned. It's a tank. However, due to the headband design (my favorite outside of the Steelseries Siberia), the weight gets evenly distributed, so it doesn't dig into your skull. I don't have a problem wearing the HE-400 all day. This is more than I can say about pretty much every other headphone I have used, with some exceptions. They also have some decent clamp, which I prefer on headphones like these. Not a strong Sennheiser-like clamp, but one that will keep the HE400 from moving around too much. All in all, not many people will have issues with the HE-400's comfort aside from how heavy they are.

Final impressions:

The HE-400 is nearly a must have for those looking for a fantastic all-rounder, with a slight tip towards fun. I'd rate the overall SQ to be top tier in it's price range, lagging behind the K702 Anniversary in balance, but besting it in fun. Other cans have more immediate fun factor (D7000, Pro 900), but long-term, the HE400 bests those as it blends ALL frequencies together to form an amazing, cohesive sound with very little to complain about. Usually, there is always something missing or hurtful, whether it's mids being recessed (Pro 900), treble being too edgy (DT990), bass not being impactful enough (Pro 2900, Q701), etc. The HE-400 is well balanced, EXCITING, full sounding, and an absolutely thrill to listen to. They're also highly detailed. For such a full sounding headphone, they can still REALLY analyze the source well, to the point where I thought my HE-400 was messed up. I then realized it was the files I was listening to that were less than perfect. That's how revealing they can be.

The detail, and clarity were top notch. They will do just fine overall. Positioning was very good while amped with more than just the Mixamp, decent without. The HE-400 impresses on pretty much ALL other fronts, that those looking for an endgame headphone shouldn't pass these up. Currently for $300, the HE-400 is among the best in it's price range.


Fun: 8.75/10 (Excellent)
Competitive: 7.5/10 (Very Good)
Comfort: 8/10 (Great)
Overall: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



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*Massdrop X Focal Elex*

$700
Where To Buy: *Drop.com*

*CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE FULL REVIEW PAGE OF THE FOCAL ELEX*

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Koss ESP-950




Normally sells between $700-$1000


Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I want to thank forum member jazzerdave for being kind enough to loan these out to me. He didn't even ask for anything in return. Stand up guy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




With my introduction to the electrostatic world via the SR-407 with SRM-252S amp, and it completely blowing me away sound-wise, I started looking to see what was sold new today for an affordable price range (head-fi affordable, not real world affordable, but I digress). The Koss ESP-950 immediately jumped out at me. Electrostatic headphone WITH an amp sometimes sold for less than $700? I HAD to check them out!

Koss is usually associated with headphones that are budget conscious, delivering great sound without breaking the bank. By now you guys probably know how much of a fanboy I am of the KSC-75 and KSC-35. I will always have at least one pair of Koss headphones in my lifetime. The Koss ESP-950 has been part of Koss's repertoire for a few decades, known for their incredibly linearity, well balanced, yet musical sound. The ESP-950 comes bundled with their E-90 electrostatic amp. It uses a proprietary headphone input, so it only works with the ESP-950. The great thing about Koss is that their well known Lifetime Warranty is also applicable here, so if for any reason these fail you, you can get them replaced/fixed by Koss directly. More companies should follow this type of business mindset. Standing behind their products for as long as you live!

Build Quality:

Unfortunately, the build quality is without question, the worst build I have seen on a headphone costing more than $100. It literally feels like a $20 headphone to me. The internals could be made out of styrofoam, and I wouldn't doubt it.

Seriously, I don't know what it is, but electrostatic headphones seem to focus purely on sound quality, and not build or aesthetics (at least until you hit flagship level Stax headphones).

Starting with the cups, they seem to be the best area of the ESP-950's build. The grills look decent enough, and feel solid enough. It's all plastic, and not a very good feeling plastic at that. Seriously, it feels like this kind of plastic belongs on no name brand budget cans. The extension bars seem to be the only thing made out of metal, and yet, it still feels/looks a bit too thin for my personal taste. Unfortunately, the arms don't like to stay at the length you adjust them to, and I can almost guarantee that it will set itself a bit more loose than anyone may like. That is, unless you have a gargantuan head and wear these fully extended. The headband is made of some cheap feeling pleather that could stand to be a little more dense inside, but is ultimately quite comfortable, as the headphone is so light and loose, the headband feels like it practically just rests there.

The pads? Oh, the pads. They are made of incredibly cheap feeling pleather of the WORST kind. Seriously, pick out an extremely cheap over ear headphone, and I'm sure the pleather pads would be comparable to the ones on the ESP-950. Despite my absolute hate for these kinds of pads, they are actually not uncomfortable by any mean of the word. Due to how loose the ESP-950 clamps to the head, the pads don't really put much pressure on the skin, so it doesn't induce much if any sweat.

The cable is of the standard flat, ribbon-type cabling found on most if not all electrostatic headphones I have seen. This is a good thing. This basically guarantees no accidental tangling. It's a bit short of length, though it comes with an extension cable of decent length. Unless you sit right next to the amp, you're guaranteed to use the extension cable.

Now, I'm not sure if it's a build issue or just typical of electrostatics (didn't hear it on the SR-407), but the ESP-950 retains some static noise even if unpluged. You literally have to touch the contacts at the end of the cable to make the noise dissipate.

Comfort:

As mentioned before, the ESP-950 is incredibly lightweight, and incredibly loose fitting (think AD700 type looseness). While the comfort overall is pretty good, the lack of secure fit makes it a little less pleasing than it should've been. The headband is very comfy, and the pleather pads, while of horrible quality, is a non-issue due to the loose fit.

Accessories:

The ESP-950 comes in a very, very nice 'leather' bag, used to fit the headphone, the amp, a battery pack (without batteries) to allow the E-90 to be used on the go, a pair of RCA cables, and 3.5mm cables. If only they spent less time with accessories, and more time with the build quality of the headphone itself, but that's just a personal gripe.

Isolation/Leakage:

As expected on open and electrostatic headphones, there is absolutely no isolation or passive noise cancelling. These are not to be used where noise control is important.

Sound:

So to the meat of the review. As advertised, the ESP-950 is certainly a very linear, very balanced, and very well behaved headphone. These are among the flattest sounding headphones I have heard, where nothing really sticks out over anything else. The upper and lower ends are slightly rolled off, meaning there is no direct bass energy or treble sizzle. The sound as a whole was indeed quite neutral, with a hint of warmth. There is a very good sense of space and soundstage is decent, but not a stand out over what I've reviewed so far. The ESP-950 is soft sounding, a hint laid back, and polite overall. It's quite the contrast compared to the SR-407 which was quite fast, lively, energetic, and aggressive, while maintaing some amazing clarity and refinement. That's not to say the ESP-950 is muted or lacking in clarity. On the contrary. The ESP-950 is among the most detailed headphones I have ever heard. It's most evident during gaming, from what I experienced. The ESP-950 while not being the most musical headphone, is still very enjoyable. Not sterile/clinical, and not colored in any real way.

Bass:

While the bass is slightly rolled off at the extreme lower end, it's not a steep roll off. With bass heavy music, the bass has a surprising amount of presence. It's a bit soft hitting and slow in the bass compared to the SR-407 which was very agile and punchy, but rolled off quite a bit faster. The ESP-950's bass overall is enjoyable and atmospheric, but doesn't bring immediate attention to itself. It could stand to gain a bit more speed and punch, but it doesn't 'sound' bass light by any means, just somewhat polite.

Mids:

This is easily the biggest strength of the ESP-950. The slight warmth and linear frequency aside from the bass and treble roll off, ensures the mids are slightly forward and immediately engaging. Though not as sultry and intimate as the LCD2, it does have a similar organic tonal quality to it. Basically, voices sound very realistic/natural. If you have a lot of music that relies on vocals more than anything, the ESP-950 will not disappoint.

Treble:

The treble is ever so slightly rolled off, but it's not veiled or muddy. It gives the ESP-950 a pleasing clarity to the upper range without any of the harshness found on headphones with more treble quantity. Among the most pleasant treble presentations I have heard. Not too rolled off, not too sparkly. It's in a good place. Trebleheads may want a clearer treble presentation, like that found on the SR-407 however. In this aspect alone, the ESP-950 takes on a more musical than realistic approach.

Soundstage:

As previously mentioned, the soundstage while not being a stand out, is quite natural sounding in size. Depth isn't an exact strength, but there is an appreciable amount of width, with great instument separation.

Positioning:

For gaming, the ESP-950 stepped it up with Dolby Headphone. The soundstage was a very good size, and while the depth still wasn't amazing, it was pretty easy to poinpoint directional cues. Space between direction cues was very good, allowing for no confusion or distractions.

Clarity:

Again, like the HD650 and LCD2, the ESP-950 is slightly on the warmer side of neutral, yet like the other two, clarity for gaming was very, very impressive. Actually, if the soundstage was larger, and depth was better, these may have been right up there with the AKG K70x's in terms of god mode inducing clarity and performance. If I had to rate the clarity for gaming alone, it'd be an easy 9.

Amping:

A non-issue as the ESP-950 comes with it's own amp, though people do take the extension cable and mod it to allow the ESP-950 to be used with more robust Stax amps. In any case, the E-90 drives the ESP-950 quite decently based on what I'm hearing, though the amp's volume control is an absolute pain as each side has it's own independent volume control, so you'll have to match by ear. To get around having to constantly re-adjust with different sources, I set it once, and controlled the volume with my Compass-2 (used it as a pre-amp). In terms of gaming, Mixamp owners will probably want to set the volume once (on a high decibel level) and adjust volume with the Mixamp (or other DH devices). The E-90 is also not the quietest amp, with some very slight background noise that occurs randomly.

Value:

The prices fluctuate wildly, but if you can score them near the $700 range, they are an incredible value. Electrostatic headphone, amp, bag, portable battery pack. All your bases are mostly covered. The build quality doesn't not compliment it's price, however.

Final Impressions:

Those looking for an incredibly well balanced, linear, and neutral-ish headphone, may find the ESP-950 to be a serious contender for your money. The ESP-950 favors it's balance and faithful representation of sound over musicality, but it remains a fine bridge between the two. For gaming, it is among the best for competitive gaming with very few faults, and it's full sound makes it a very good headphone outside of non-competitive use.
Final Scores...


Fun: 7.75 (Very Good.)
Competitive: 8.5 (Excellent)
Comfort: 7 (Good)
Overall: 8.75 (Excellent)

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Massdrop x HiFiMAN Edition XX


$599 as of April 2019
Where To Buy: Massdrop

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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MrSpeakers Alpha Dog




DISCONTINUED
Where To Buy: MrSpeakers Alpha Dog page


Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I'd like to express my deepest thanks to MrSpeakers for the loan/demo of these headphones. Both the Alpha Dog and Mad Dog headphones reviewed on my guide were supplied directly by Dan aka MrSpeakers. Dan always aims to please, and though I have never met him personally, I fully expect him to be one hell of a guy in real life as well. He stands behind his products, and seems very proud of them. Rightly so, if I could be completely honest. That out the way... on to the review.

The Alpha Dog. The successor to the immensely popular and highly regarded Mad Dog. What a successor it is. The Mad Dog was generally labeled as a closed LCD-2, and though I don't completely agree with that statement, I do find the Mad Dog to be the closest thing to a closed LCD-2 (I haven't heard the new LCD-XC). I personally felt it was not an LCD-2 clone, but it's own headphone, with it's own strengths and weaknesses.

With the Alpha Dog, Dan set out to improve upon the Mad Dog, with a rise in clarity, speed, level of detail, neutrality, and soundstage/sense of space. As far as I'm concerned, he fully achieved his goal. How he was able to transform a $100 T50RP to something considerably more high end, especially being a closed planar magnetic, is anyone's guess. Not only does the Alpha Dog look the part, but plays it to the tee as well.

Build Quality:
Amazing.

The Alpha Dog is truly something to behold. Nearly gone is any trace of the retro-looking Fostex T50RP, with the only visible remnants of the T50RP being the black/grayish rubbery headband with the huge Fostex branding on the top (I personally hope Dan finds some form of leather or cloth wrapping to cover up the rubbery headband, like some Pro model DT770 leatherette headband cover), as well as the extension arms holding the cups/drivers. Speaking of the extension arms, gone is the copper/brass color, now anodized in black dye with MrSpeakers and R imprinted on the right side; Alpha Dogs and L on the left. Aside from the leather comfort strap (first introduced on the Mad Dog), every other external piece has been replaced. The most noticeable change is undoubtedly the new 3D printed cups, which ironically takes on a look that more closely resembles the flagship Fostex TH-900's red urushi lacquer cups.

The Alpha Dog's cups are simply a thing of absolute beauty. It is completely devoid of any marks, brands, logos, etc. Just a glossy red/burgundy candy coat of paint to feast your eyes on, as well as two cavities near the arms. These cavities have a purpose: They are the tuning mechanism for the bass on the Alpha Dog. With the supplied miniature hex key, you're able to adjust the screw inside the top cavity, which alters the bass on the Alpha Dog. However, be warned: doing so removes any liability on MrSpeakers's part. If you mess up the tuning, MrSpeakers will re-tune the drivers to their stock state at a cost. The bass adjustment was meant as a one time adjustment, not as an on the fly bass boost/reduction.

The Alpha Dog uses 4-pin XLR inputs on both sides for the new cables, with your choice of a single ended 6.3mm cable, or balanced cables. You can also order both sets of cables for an additional cost. The standard cable is thick, of good length (6 feet), durable, and heavy duty, terminating in a 6.3mm Neutrik plug. The last thing to ever complain about here is the cable, I assure you. The immensely popular Alpha pads (first introduced in a more recent version of the Mad Dog) are back and put to great use here. Made of lambskin leather, thick, soft, and angled, the Alpha Pads are arguably one of the most if not THE most comfortable pair of (lambskin) leather pads ever used on a headphone.

Wonderfully built from head to toe, I don't see any points of weakness anywhere on the Alpha Dogs. The only real reason you'd want to baby it is so as not to ruin the wonderful finish on the cups. That is a worry not found on the utilitarian Mad Dog with it's matte black plastic cups which could take quite a beating and come out relatively unscathed.

Accessories:
Fantastic.

The Alpha Dog comes with a full suite of goodies:





Spoiler: Review




Metal headphone stand. This is an awesome bonus, though I feel it's not exactly convenient. You can't exactly place the Alpha Dog on the stand with cables attached unless you add some foam or anything else that will raise the headphone enough to give the cables some clearance. As aesthetically pleasing as the headphone stand is, I don't see anything pretty about adding a block of wood or foam, etc. I'm sure some people will find elegant methods to provide enough clearance for the Alpha Dog with it's cables.
Cloth carrying pouch
Microfiber cleaning cloth
Mini hex tool for adjusting the Very-Bass screw at your own risk

The only things missing are a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter and a hard case for solid protection. For the sake of versatility, I would've preferred it if the standard cable was terminated in a 3.5mm plug with a 6.3mm adapter, though considering the kinds of setups/systems the Alpha Dogs were built in mind for, it's understandable. The Alpha Dogs were made to be powered off desktop amps which tend to come with 6.3mm inputs. I recommend a Grado-style 6.3mm female to 3.5mm male cable, not a simple 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter, as those tend to put strain or outright break 3.5mm inputs. As for the hard case, would be nice, but not necessary. There is simply no legitimate reason to be unimpressed with the amount of accessories packed with the Alpha Dog.

Comfort:
Great.

As mentioned with the Mad Dog, the Alpha Dog has an incredibly similar comfort factor, the difference between the additional weight of the new cables and cups. It is a very, very comfortable headphone overall. The added weight over the Mad Dog is noticeable, but mostly inoffensive. The Alpha Dog would practically fit on any head, isn't oversized, and has some moderate clamp (clamp can be adjusted by bending the headband, which extremely easy to do). The Alpha Dog used in this review has some moderate clamp which I didn't want to mess with, as I feel it's a good middle ground for comfort and optimal sound quality.

The leather comfort strap feels great on the head, distributing downforce relatively evenly. The Alpha pads are as usual, very comfortable. Not on the same level as the best velour or alcantara pads (Shure 1540 pads as an example) out there, but certainly among the best of the leather/pleather pads. The pads are soft, seal very well, and don't get as hot or sticky as some of the worst offenders out there. They still do build up heat, so don't expect cool ears on hot days.

Design Issues:

The only complaint I have with the Alpha Dog's build itself, is the implementation of the bass adjustment screw. While I haven't personally adjusted this, it feels restricted, a bit ardous, and potentially harmful to the headphone's tuning (not to mention the possibility of damaging the inside of the housing). I hope the future provides further improvements on the design, adding a simpler method to adjust the bass or return it to stock form. I also hear the Alpha Dog is very reliant on seal, and needs to be adjusted to fit the head properly for the optimal sound quality/seal. I don't have a problem in this area, though your mileage may vary.

Isolation/Leakage:
Great.

Like the Mad Dog before it, the Alpha Dog isolates pretty well. It provides a good amount of passive noise cancelling when a source is playing, and controls noise leak relatively well. Not the final world on either internal/external noise control, but should suit most environments.

Sound:
Amazing.

Before I get into the specifics on the Alpha Dog's sound, I want to say that the Alpha Dog had a LOT of hype built around it, and I wouldn't have been satisfied if it failed to live up to most of it. I'm a realist, a skeptic, and pessimist at heart, but I do give things their chance to prove themselves. I don't know whether I was expecting the Alpha Dog to fall short of it's hype, or whether I was expecting it to be a complete success, considering how well the Mad Dog performed. I was basically torn, prior to hearing them for myself. I'll start by saying that MrSpeakers pulled an incredible feat with the Alpha Dog. To me, the Alpha Dog is the most successful headphone to meet the high expectations and hype built around it.

Bass:
Quantity: Great
Quality: Amazing

In true planarmagnetic form, the bass on the Alpha Dog is incredibly linear all the way down to the lowest depths, not giving any attention to one aspect of it's bass in favor of another. Full bodied, tonally neutral, tight, impactful, well balanced, correct, and quick in speed and decay. It's one of the most realistic presentations of bass I've heard on any headphone. It's not my FAVORITE presentation of bass, as I prefer a warmer tilt with some emphasis and longer decay (like it's sibling, the Mad Dog 3.2), but I can't fault the complete neutrality and technicality in the Alpha Dog's bass. The bass lends itself well to any and every genre, from most genres of EDM, hip hop, rock, and acoustic, and everything in between. In true Alpha Dog form, the chameleon-like sound signature starts with it's bass.

I didn't alter the bass with the Very-Bass screw, and to be quite honest, I don't feel like it needs to be tuned. The Alpha Dog was built for utter neutrality, and the bass is neutral in every sense of the word. The bass is bass. Nothing more, nothing less. It is completely dependent on the recording. If your source is bassy, the Alpha Dog will happily transfer that energy to your ears. If the source has little to no bass, the Alpha Dog will also transfer that politeness straight to your ears. That to me, means near technical perfection. Objectively, the Alpha Dog's bass is absolutely reference-level. Spend enough time with a reference-type bass like the Alpha Dogs, and many others will start to exhibit their lack of finesses and correctness.

Mids:
Quantity: Great
Quality: Fantastic

Following suit to the incredibly accurate bass, is the incredibly accurate mids. It is tonally neutral to my ears, perfectly in harmony with it's bass and treble, and present at all times, without being recessed or shouty. Most audiophiles will most likely prefer a warmer, more organic, and intimate mid section (I admit to being one of them), but that is a subjective preference, not an objective quality. There is no compensation here. It is all presented evenly, so if you're adverse to certain areas in the upper mids (which tend to be smoothened out and blunted down with many headphones to produce a more pleasing tonality), you may find some upper mid/lower treble glare. The Alpha Dog does not mask any imperfections, and will expose any and all flaws in a bad recording, which tend to come out most in the upper mids and lower treble range.

Personally, I'd prefer a fuller, thicker, more intimate tone to the mids (like the LCD-2 and HD650), but for the sake of neutrality, I feel the Alpha Dog puts out the more correct sounding mids, with plenty of musicality and enjoyment factor. One thing is certain, the mids on the Alpha Dogs are superb, both subjectively and objectively. Not thick, and not lean, the mids are what I can only label as properly represented.

Treble:
Quantity: Fantastic
Quality: Great

Treble was one area many people were negatively vocal about in the Mad Dogs. Too mellow, rolled off, soft, etc. Those were common complaints with the Mad Dog, though I personally wasn't unhappy with it's treble presentation as it shifted the focus on the Mad Dog to it's wonderful bass and great mids, which I found more important to maintain. The treble on the Alpha Dog is the antithesis of the Mad Dog's treble presentation. Airy, extended, energetic, and again, more technically correct in every single way. The Alpha Dog's treble will expose problem areas in many bad recordings, mainly in S and T sounds, so if you're susceptible to sibilance, and/or have many recordings that exhibit sibilance, the Alpha Dog won't do you any favors. It will sizzle if the recording favors brightness. The Alpha Dog demands clean sources and recordings. I foresee many people throwing away badly mastered tracks, all thanks to the Alpha Dog which is a master of exposing flaws up top.

The treble is understandably not as airy as some of the better open-backed headphones on this guide, but you may be surprised by how airy it actually is. I'll touch upon this in the soundstage section which is aided by the presentation of the Alpha Dog's treble range.

Clarity:
Fantastic.

The Alpha Dog is without a doubt the cleanest sounding, closed-back headphone I've ever heard. Even next to the stellar, open-backed headphones that excel in clarity, the Alpha Dog stands among the best. It even does so without giving up fullness and body, which tends to be a typical trade-off for headphones that aim for the highest clarity and detail. The Alpha Dog maintains clarity and detail in almost any and every situation. People complained that the Mad Dog was too dark, overly warm, mellow, masking some upper range detail and extension. The Alpha Dog is here to put that argument to absolute rest. There is nothing dark, overly warm, or mellow about the Alpha Dog. How MrSpeakers was able to achieve this level of clarity out of T50RP drivers...well, some deals must have been made in blood. That's the only explanation I can think of.

Soundstage:
Stereo: Fantastic
Virtual Surround: Great

One of the goals MrSpeakers set for himself with the Alpha Dog, was to improve the soundstage to one that would more closely resemble an open-backed headphone's soundstage rather than a closed one. As a fully closed-back headphone, the Alpha Dog had quite a challenge ahead in order to fulfill that goal. As a gamer, I'm admittedly critical on the size of a headphone's soundstage. It is essentially one of the most important factor in terms of what I rate highly for competitive gaming performance (the others being clarity and detail). Many times did I hear of headphones like the Mad Dog having a large soundstage, which personally wasn't the case to my ears. It was decent for a closed headphone, but that's all it ever was for me. Now, with the Alpha Dog, all the hype, all the mentions of it sounding open, made me overly skeptical. One of my personal issues is that I personally try and debunk unrealistic hype.

With a skeptical mind, I put on the Alpha Dogs, and immediately tested some music (I hadn't even tried gaming first to test soundstage). What I heard simply shocked me. The Alpha Dog is simply the most open sounding closed-back headphone I have ever heard. So much, that at first, I thought I put them on wrong and broke the seal on the pads. Yes, the Alpha Dog has fooled me on various occasions. Even as I sat down, listening to music and typing this review, I still got the feeling that the pads had a broken seal because the sound is projecting out like an open-backed headphone in a quiet room.

No closed back headphone that I've used has given me this type of aural sensation. The sound projects outwards, cleanly, and convincingly. I don't know how MrSpeakers did it, but I assure you, he has done it. The closest I've personally heard were the Denon D7000 and Beyerdynamic DT770, both which have excellent soundstages for closed headphones, but won't ever fool anyone of being anything but closed.

Now, don't misconstrue my words: the Alpha Dog is no AD700, K701, MA900, or HD800. At best, the Alpha Dog sounds like an open-backed headphone with a good soundstage in a completely silent room. It also doesn't sound open with every source/recording, and sounds like a closed headphone in some instances. This needs to be particularly mentioned, because most people (I'm positive of this), tend to partly associate a large soundstage with a lack of external isolation. With an open-backed headphone, you feel the air, hear the ambient external noise, and feel the lack of seal. It fools the brain into feeling the 'openness' of a headphone's sound. This is why it's crucial to understand that the Alpha Dog seals and isolates very well, so no external ambience/air/etc will be mixed in with the Alpha Dog sound. Once you've taken all of this into account, you may finally understand what I mean when I say that the soundstage on the Alpha Dog sounds like an open headphone in a completely silent room.

The soundstage depth, as usual of planarmagnetics, projects outward about as well as any headphone I've ever reviewed whether closed or open. The width was an area of weakness that I found on the Mad Dog, and I'm happy to report that the Alpha Dog has good soundstage width, particularly for a closed headphone. It won't best any of the open soundstage favorites in terms of width, but even among open-backed headphones, the width would be considered very good.

In short, and to repeat myself, the Alpha Dog simply has the airiest, most open sounding soundstage on any closed back headphone I've ever heard. Not always true, but with great frequency, it will impress.

Positioning:
Great.

With incredible clarity, open-like soundstage, very good width and even better depth (which I argue is more important than width), it's pretty much obvious that the positional cues are very easy to pinpoint. The bell like clarity of surround cues which have plenty of virtual space to be located in a snap, the Alpha Dog an incredibly easy choice for gamers who'd like their headphones to isolate well without sacrificing openness and competitive gaming performance.

Amping:

I feel the Alpha Dog greatly benefits from raw desktop amp power. It scales noticeably going from a portable amp to a desktop amp, and it's sound signature can expose an amp's tonal strengths or weaknesses. I personally recommend a strong amp with a warmer tonality, as I believe it would further aid the Alpha Dog's musicality and timbre. It'd be a disservice to the Alpha Dog and the owner to skimp out on proper amping. The more you give it, the more it will reward you. You're paying for high quality sound, it'd make sense to provide it with a strong, clean signal from source all the way down the chain, up to the headphone.

Personal Recommendation?:

Movies, Music, Media In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

At $600, it may come at a steep price for many, but you get what you pay for. A jack of all trades, master of plenty, with some truly amazing performance all around. If you're looking for one headphone that does everything well or better, the Alpha Dog should be one of the first headphones you should look into, possibly even the last.

Comparisons:

- Mad Dog 3.2 and LCD-2: Based off memory (I'm confident in at least remembering these two), as far as headphones the Alpha Dog will undoubtedly be stacked up against, I do prefer the warmer tonality on the Mad Dog and LCD2, though the Alpha Dog is objectively more capable than the Mad Dog, and I feel is on a similar tier of performance as the LCD2, with a different presentation of sound. The bass is fuller, and more upfront on both the Mad Dog and LCD2 over the Alpha Dog. However, the Alpha Dog's bass is faster, more energetic, and more tonally correct than either the Mad Dog or LCD2. The mids are warmer, more intimate, and overall more pleasing on both the LCD-2 and Mad Dog over the Alpha Dogs, but again, it will depend on your preferences. The Alpha Dog is definitely not lacking in mids, just that it presents it a little differently, with less coloration. The treble, yet again will come down to the individual: Do you want sparkle, clarity, and extension found on the Alpha Dog? Or do you want a softer, less prone to harshness, and slightly polite/more relaxing presentation on the LCD-2 and Mad Dog? One thing the Alpha Dog is a clear winner in is the much more open soundstage than either the LCD2 and Mad Dog which sound closed in. Yes, despite the Alpha Dog being closed, and the LCD-2 being open, the Alpha Dog sounds more open, reaches further out, and will give you a better sense of music playing outside your head.

Final Impressions:

The Alpha Dog certainly lives up to the hype. With it's chameleon-esque neutral balance, with full, linear bass, clean mids, and airy treble, the Alpha Dog is a more than capable performer for any and all manner of things thrown at it. It's highly detailed sound signature, unnaturally open and spacious presentation (despite it's closed back design), and great comfort easily put it in the upper echelon of headphones I have ever tested, and I personally can't see many people being anything but utterly impressed with the Alpha Dog.

Whether it be any form of gaming, any genre of music, or any other type of media, the Alpha Dog sings along beautifully. At it's worst, it may not be the BEST headphone in certain situations, but it's worst is better than the best many other headphones have to offer. The Alpha Dog could simply be my one and only headphone, and I honestly couldn't think of any other headphone better suited for all of my necessities. It just does absolutely everything well. Everything. So much that I REALLY don't want to give them back!

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 8.5/10 (Great)



Despite it's incredibly neutral sound signature, saying the Alpha Dog is lacking in fun is completely untrue. Due to it's tonal balance that blends in with basically anything you throw at it, fun gaming sound as fun as it wants to be.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.5/10 (Great)



For a closed headphone, there really is no comparison here. Incredibly detailed and clear, with a spacious soundstage, and fantastic positional cues. There's not much you can ask for that the Alpha Dog can't provide here. The added benefit of blocking outside noises may even give it an extra advantage.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8/10 (Great)



The combination of Alpha pads and the leather strap keep the Alpha Dogs comfortable for hours on end. It is on the heavy side, and it can stand to be less clampy for extra comfort. Since clamp can be adjusted, the score can potentially more towards an 8.5 for me, at best.





Spoiler: Overall: 9/10 (Amazing)



In case you hadn't noticed from the start of this review, I am incredibly fond of the Alpha Dog, and believe it deserves all the hype that has spread since it's reveal. You get top tier performance in all areas, without any real detriment to it's sound. Most jack of all trade headphones tend to lack a little magic, or give up some sound quality to become a more all around pleaser. The Alpha Dog gives absolutely nothing up. Even as a jack of all trades, the sound quality is absolutely master class.



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MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1




Price as of Mar 2016: $1499.99 to $1649.99 (DUM Cable upgrade)


Spoiler: Review



MrSpeakers brings in yet another closed planarmagnetic to the market in the Ether C. Few planarmagnetic competitors, like the Oppo PM-3 on the lower priced spectrum, and Audeze LCD-XC in the higher-priced spectrum, have managed to grasp the attention of audiophiles today the way MrSpeakers closed planars do. MrSpeakers Mad Dog variants have proven popular over the years in the value range, while the Alpha Dog and Alpha Prime, have remained competitive in the upper ranges. The Ether C takes it one step further into endgame territory, for those who want nothing but the best MrSpeakers has to offer in the closed planar market.

Build Quality

The Ether C is nothing short of absolutely majestic, in its black, stealthy, aggressive-yet-elegant design.

Headband: Starting with the headband is the NiTinol (Nickel Titanium alloy) 'wires', which feel all but weightless. It looks like two very thin pieces of metal, but are rigid, and extremely durable for their design. The Italian leather headband strap that rests on your head has a "breathable synthetic underside" (per MrSpeakers). I can attest to its unrivaled comfort. My sole gripe with the headband is that my larger than average sized-head is at its limit in clearance.

Cups: The sleek 'ultra-rigid carbon fiber cups' are fairly large and circular. The dark, carbon fiber has a high gloss finish, though it is fairly difficult to see fingerprints unless catching light at specific angles. The bottom side of the cups house the metal HiRose 7 series style connectors, which makes cable attachment a breeze. The vertical and horizontal swivel will allow for the cups to rest comfortably on virtually any head shape.

Ear pads: The angled, lambskin leather earpads are thick, plush, and very comfortable, with large, rectangular openings for most ears to fit into without issue. The pads are great at noise isolation, with very little audio seepage. The openings are also where the tuning pads are inserted to alter the sound of the Ether C to your preferences (different from the Ether C 1.1 upgrade foams, which are inserted by removing the ear pads and placing directly on top of the driver housing).

I'm sure people are tired of me saying that I prefer non-leather pads over any form of leather, but be that as it may, the lambskin leather pads MrSpeakers uses are amongst the most comfortable leather pads I have ever tested, if not THE most comfortable of all leather pads tested.

Cable: The unit reviewed came with the upgraded DUM cable with 1/4" plug. The cable is considerably lightweight despite how thick and robust it looks. It is also quite flexible, and covered by a very nice material. It terminates into a very hefty 1/4" (6.3mm) Neutrik plug. There is no 3.5mm adapter, so if you plan on attaching the Ether C to a device with a 3.5mm input, I suggest a nice 1/4" to 3.5mm cable adapter, like the type Grado and Sennheiser sell. None of those suspicious no-name barrel adapters that put stress on your 3.5mm inputs. Alternatively, you can just order the Ether C with a cable that terminates into a 3.5mm plug instead and use a 1/4" adapter which you'll likely have a stockpile of. There are also balanced cable options available.

I can't speak for the stock cable and how much better the DUM cable is or isn't. I'm personally not a believer of cable voodoo, but I'll say that I really like the choice of cable MrSpeakers used for this DUM cable upgrade. It looks great, feels great, sounds great. Not much more I can say about it. Very nice.

Final Build Impressions:

The Ether C is a considerable step up from the modded T50RP husks used for the Mad Dog and Alpha Dog. Both the Ether and Ether C have a brand new, 100% MrSpeakers design. What remains from the lower tiered headphones is the expectation of durability and comfort.

Accessories

The Ether C comes with a few accessories:

Hard Case: The relatively small form factor hard case fits the Ether C comfortably, if a bit snug. It also has an area under the headband to store the cable (as well as the tuning kit pads and magicfiber cloth), and comes with a mesh flap with velcro to keep them in place. The inside of the case has a raised portion in the middle to keep these goodies separated from the Ether C's cups.

Tuning kit: Used to alter the sound signature balance of the Ether C for personal preferences. The kit includes 4 black pads, 2 white (softer) pads, installation instructions, and frequency response graphs for each tuning pad setup.

MagicFiber cleaning cloth: Pretty self explanatory. Use the cloth to make yours cups glossy and fingerprint free.

Tuning Kit

As mentioned earlier, the tuning kit is used to alter the sound signature balance of the Ether C for personal preferences. The kit includes 4 black pads, and 2 white (softer) pads, installation instructions, and frequency response graphs for each tuning pad setup.

The tuning pads go inside the ear opening of the ear pads, not under.

Tuning 1: No tuning pads installed. Default Ether C sound. Overall neutral balance.

Tuning 2: 1 black pad on each side. Slightly warmer. The 2nd most neutral setup for the Ether C. Effective mainly at reducing a bit of sibilance. A subtle change over no tuning pads.

Tuning 3: 2 black pads on each side. Warmer than tuning 2, and considerably warmer than no tuning pads (tuning 1). This one effectively removes most sibilance, and de-emphasizes the upper range considerably for a smoother, less fatiguing sound signature.

Tuning 4: 1 white pad on each side. The warmest Ether C solution, further delving into darkness than tuning 3. Upper range is reduced even further for a sibilance-free, smooth sound.

I personally recommend everyone getting used to the Ether C's inherent sound signature without any tuning pads installed. Once you are more than well acquainted with the Ether C's strength and weaknesses, should you start experimenting with the tuning kit to see if a specific tuning better suits your preferences. I say this, as there are benefits and tradeoffs to using the tuning kit. The Ether C is objectively at its best when no tuning pads are installed, though may not suit your subjective tastes until installing tuning pads.

Comfort

The Ether C's comfort is within my expectations of a MrSpeakers headphone, which is nothing short of excellent.

Weight: At 390 grams, it is among the lightest planarmagnetics I have tested, though a light planar is still far from light in comparison to the better, featherweight dynamic headphones out there. In terms of planars, only the HiFiMAN HE-4 and Mad Dog 3.2 edged out the Ether C in weight as far as personal experience goes. The Alpha Dog was a hefty beast. My current in-home daily driver, the late (and personal fave) HiFiMAN HE-400 feels immediately heavier on the head and neck.

The Ether C's weight may not match that of the lightest dynamic headphones out there, but it falls in a generally acceptable range, especially so because of its fantastic weight distribution. It is no Audeze LCD-2, which felt as if I was balancing a figurative Abrahms tank on the head.

Headband: The Ether C's headband design is absolutely superb due to a very light design and always appreciated leather strap which normally wouldn't leave a hotspot in uneven pressure. Due to my large head (causing absolutely no clearance between my head, the strap, and the headband), the NiTinol headband digs into the leather headband strap. This is a fairly minute issue only worth mentioning for those who plan on using the Ether C for hours on end, and are self-aware of their large heads that tend to hit the max clearance on many headphones.

Under normal use, this is but a very minor discomfort that overall leaves the Ether C under 'Great' comfort, as opposed to 'Amazing'. Again, this is just something to note for those of us with big heads. Normal heads will likely find the Ether C to be absolutely stellar in comfort even during all day use.

Ear pads: The ear pads are the very popular, angled, lambskin leather pads MrSpeakers has sold for years now, and should come to no surprise on its stellar comfort due to its thickness, plushness, and generously open ear cavity. I personally would've preferred another material for the pads, but that's a personal gripe, not an issue with the Ether's pads themselves.

Clamp: The Ether C's clamp falls under 'moderate clamp' to my head, which is the range I prefer headphone clamp to be in. Too strong causes major discomfort, and too loose a clamp causes the endless repositioning and shuffling of headphones. The Ether C's clamp keeps the headphone secure with very minor shifting under normal use.

Overall Comfort Impressions: If I had some clearance between the top metal headband and the top of my head, I'd likely rate the Ether C's comfort as absolutely superb. I personally think all headphone designs should have ample headroom both figuratively and literally, to allow for all head sizes and shapes.

That being said, those with normal to smaller-sized heads will find the Ether C to be among the best in terms of planarmagnetic comfort, and generally excellent overall.

Isolation/Leakage

The Ether C is excellent in both passive noise isolation and leakage even at high volumes. It is an easy recommendation for all situations where you want to keep your sound in and external noise out. Short of blasting your eardrums with music while someone sleeps right next to the headphone, I don't think anyone will have a complaint on its noise control performance.

Sound

The sound...oh, the sound. The Ether C is what I'd simply describe as a "Top All-Rounder". Proficient at all, master of many. I can easily spoil everything by saying that as of March 2016, this is the best headphone I have ever heard, but I feel an explanation and going further in depth is deeply warranted.

The Ether C is the epitome of nearly everything I want in a headphone's sound. The Ether C may not have the best of everything all at once, but it is certainly capable of achieving great results in all general aspects of sound. With the tuning kit, you can dial in the sound even further if you prefer a more intimate, less technically proficient, yet more pleasing tonality if you desire.

I'll be mainly reviewing the Ether C's sound based off no tuning pads, though I'll talk about its warmest tuning pad setup, as I feel giving you the two extremes is more practical than the middle two tuning pad solutions which fall between being closer to the very neutral (no tuning pads) solution, or the warmest solution (white pad installed). You can extrapolate that the two middle pad solutions will fall somewhere between the neutral and warmest sound.

Let me dig into specifics.

Bass

The default Ether C 1.1's bass is as advertised: Linear, with an incredibly deep extension that reaches the lower octaves with ease. The Bass section reaches all the way down to the 20hz range with absolutely no perceivable unharmonic distortions. If you're coming from an open dynamic headphone, be prepared to hear a range in sound seemingly non-existent in many dynamic headphone's audio. You'll likely want to revisit your library of music just to engage with a layer in sound that you hadn't heard before.

Surprisingly, the Ether C is one of the first neutrally balanced headphones I have heard to present sub bass so well without it ever approaching 'emphasis'. I generally prefer a warm tilt, with a sub bass to midrange tilt, and yet the Ether C's controlled, balanced, mostly uncolored approach, highlights the sub bass to be ever so present as I'd expect from a warm tilted signature, despite the Ether C's mostly neutral tonality. Put on some bass heavy music, and watch how the deep, cavernous void of the Ether C's sub bass comes alive. It fills out the atmosphere and general ambience as well as most bass driven headphones I've heard, without the extra emphasis or boominess.

Mid bass notes are taut, fast, and incredibly well controlled, taking more of an in-line "I'm here to play with everyone else" approach instead of taking command, allowing the bass to decay quickly and progress into the midrange without any bleeding into vocals. It isn't the strongest mid bass punch I've heard, which actually plays to my preferences, as I'll take 20-50hz ambience and rumble every time over any emphasis at 60hz and above. Bassheads may need to take note of this, as bass rumble, and bass punch tend fall on opposing ends of that 50-60hz line. The Ether C is not a bass deficient headphone by any stretch, but it doesn't have the typical bass hump of bass driven, dynamic headphones, so don't expect Ultrasone-esque midbass.

The bass overall is sharp, well defined, and exceptionally clear. It is simply there when it needs to be, never overstepping its bounds, and never truly asleep.

Bass with tuning pads: Depending on the level of tuning pads installed, the bass can be moved forward in a subtle or more significant manner. The general properties of bass don't change, but due to the de-emphasis of the mid to upper spectrum of sound, bass volume can climb a considerable amount over other those ranges, and appear bigger, rounder, fuller, more fluid. The tradeoff being that the bass notes become slightly less defined.

To sum up the Ether C's bass, it really depends on how you'd like it to be. The bass can be expertly linear with surgical precision including an excellent reach down to the lowest levels. On the other end, adding some tuning pads can turn the bass into a bolder, fluid, and more organic tone with a slight hit to its definition. Either way, the Ether C's bass is sure to impress everyone in some form of another, based on whatever preference they may have and with some brief pad tuning.

Midrange

The Ether C's midrange in stock form is what I can best describe as chameleon-esque; neutrally toned, well balanced, with neither emphasis nor overall recession. Depending on source, it can change to any of these traits, from warm to cold, forward or recessed, intimate or distant. It is as transparent as any headphone I've heard to date, if not more so. It is very clean and as defined as I'd expect of a headphone of this caliber. It is prone to exposing flaws like sibilance, tizziness, vocal and instrumental harshness. The midrange paints a pretty clear picture of sound with sharp audio cues.

As far as problem areas in the midrange, there are no major glaring issues, though on frequency tests, there is some shrillness at 5khz, which may be a small factor to the Ether C's ruthless detail retrieval.

Midrange with tuning pads: The turn towards a warm signature becomes evidently clear, with a full on warming of the midrange, and noticeable reduction of brutal qualities like sibilance and harshness at louder volumes. As you go further into the warmer tuning setups, sibilance all but dissipates, with a broad range smoothing of the entire upper midrange. The downside of the warmer tuning setups is the reduction of sharpness and upper midrange clarity. Micro details become less defined and the outline of objects become a little hazy in comparison to the slightly sharper definition of the Ether C with no tuning pads.

On the positive side subjectively, like the bass, the meat of the midrange yields the most benefits, as it slightly rounds out the midrange to enhance euphony, organics, body, and fluidity. Since upper mid to treble ranges are reduced and softened, the general midrange comes forward with vocals and instruments becoming sweeter and more naturally toned.

In the end, the Ether C's midrange is (by default), very balanced and uncolored, yielding control of its sonic properties to the source. There are very few rough edges up top, easiest to remedy with the addition of tuning pads, albeit with tradeoffs of some clarity and definition, for warmth and extra musicality. I can take the Ether's C either way, as both extremes (stock neutral, and full on warmth tuning) sound fantastically emotive, give or take a few things mentioned.

Treble

The Ether C's treble is best described as quite present and detailed, lending a big hand to the sense of air, soundstage space, and overall imaging properties of the Ether C.

The pair reviewed has a steep valley between the lower treble's 7khz to 8khz range, subduing some of the Ether C's less desirable ear piercing ranges. Above 8khz, the treble comes back alive with plenty of energy and shimmer without bordering on unnatural hotness and tizz. Those problems only arise with hot, bright recordings, easily fixed with going a step into the warm tuning pad solutions which will reduce sibilance or eliminate it altogether.

Like the midrange, the treble's balancing is reliant on source, and can be relatively neutral, bright, or slightly warm depending on quality of gear, and audio files. You can easily make the Ether C a highly detailed monster, ruthless on exposing flaws, or with warmer solutions (even without tuning pads), it can become softer, more forgiving, while remaining very detailed up top.

On the warmest tuning pad setup, the treble is subdued considerably, giving the Ether C an unmistakably dark tonal character, akin to something like the Audeze LCD2, Sennheiser HD650, or the original MrSpeakers planar, the Mad Dog. Rich and meaty, while remaining detailed, but considerably smoother, more forgiving, and easier to listen to for longer periods of time. Think of it less as a veil or smothering of upper frequencies, and more as a considerable volume reduction. Definition isn't as sharp, and the sense of air and space between notes are reduced, though soundstage size is still within the same perception of distance.

Due to the high variation the tuning pads bring, the Ether C's ability to cater to a wide audience isn't to be dismissed as a gimmick. The treble range is one of the biggest factors in audiophile preferences, giving the Ether C a clear advantage over the competition due to its versatilty to change the treble signature at will.

Imaging and Soundstage

This is where the Ether C's most potent magic lies. I can't say this enough: the Ether C's imaging is nothing short of pure, unadulterated, brilliance. Never, EVER have I heard a headphone portray sounds, objects, voices, instruments in a virtual space quite like the Ether C's presentation of sound. Needless to say, don't expect witchcraft, but more often than not, you can expect a deep, wide, and tall sense of positional layering only aided by the fantastically vast soundstage that can reach far outside the listening position under the best circumstances.

I have been tricked more times by the Ether C than by any other headphone into thinking my humble Pioneer soundbar was turned on as I listened to music, played games, or simply watched TV shows and movies. I've had to double check that certain noises weren't coming from outside my window.

Due to the Ether C's fantastic imaging, it goes a step above and beyond standard headphone audio limits, that will leave a long lasting impression. This is all coming from a closed-back headphone, mind you. The soundstage is black, quiet, and big, which allows the Ether C to paint a well defined image of whatever you're listening to, without any sonic obstruction.

Imaging and Soundstage with tuning pads: The warmer your tuning pad setup, the more limited the Ether's C's imaging and soundstage become. The reduction in treble due to the extra warmth/smoothing lead to the perception of a reduced soundstage, though it remains relatively unaffected in size. Less air, less definition of objects, and less open space between them has a congestion effect in comparison to no tuning pads installed. That being said, soundstage is still large and impressive, just not as immediately impressive.

If you have a high priority for soundstaging and imaging, I recommend you stick to no tuning pads, or the first warm pad setting. The second warmest, and the warmest setups have more intimate sonic traits which make the soundstage and imaging lose a bit of their initial magic, though still remain excellent for a closed headphone.

For us gamers, regardless of tuning pad setup, many of us rely on virtual surround DSPs for our imaging and soundstaging, which remain excellent regardless of tuning pads. It's just made better when using no tuning pads, at the expensive of that immersive warmth and fullness. Give and take. The Ether C gives you options. Pick your poison.

Clarity

The Ether C's neutrality and immense detail clarity should come as no surprise at this point. Despite a drop off in the lower treble (with a rise back up), the Ether C's clarity is absolutely top notch. Subtle nuances from the lowest frequencies to the highest are picked up by the Ether C with relative ease. The sharp imaging, air, and sparkle all enhance clarity to endgame level. Deep, textured bass, linear midrange, and sharp, defined treble lead to a clarity driven headphone, without the additional harshness associated with many headphones belonging to that type of sound signature characteristic.

Adding tuning pads reduce clarity the warmer you go, in favor of musicality, less fatigue, and intimacy. Definition/sharpness becomes softer in general, so if you're into digging into the smallest details, I recommend sticking to no pads, or just the second most neutral tuning pad solution.

Sound Signature

Tonality: I'm sure by now I've mentioned the signature of the Ether C various times. Linear, well balanced, and mostly neutral with deep extension both down low and up top. Tuning pads lead to a definitive change towards warm/dark, with the warmest setup leading to a big bold, fatigue-free sound.

Bass: Sub bass depth and extension is the name of Ether C's bass game. Expect plenty of ambience and atmosphere from the Ether C without the mid bass boominess. Mid bass is controlled and linear which doesn't bring attention to itself unless called for. Bass can become bigger and fuller, the warmer you go with the tuning pads. Despite the extra warmth, it still maintains a separation from the general midrange, and does not ever become obtrusive.

Midrange: Well balanced, neutral tone, malleable and dependent on recording. Takes on whatever character is needed of it. Adding tuning pads give the midrange a warm, more organic tonality, at the expense of some clarity and definition.

Treble: Neutral to detailed, only harsh if recording isn't top notch. Dark valley at 7-8khz, but bright upper range. Sharp, sparkly, and airy. Tuning pads have a huge impact on treble's tonality and emphasis. Definitive dark signature, with zero sibilance, soft, smooth high notes. Like the midrange, less definition and clarity the warmer your tuning pad setup. The treble has the biggest variation when using tuning pads.

Soundstage: Large, expansive, deep, and incredibly impressive. Warmer tuning pad setups lead to less virtual space, though still large and impressive under the right circumstances.

Gaming

Fantastic clarity, details, air, soundstage, and imaging are all huge benefits to the serious gamer. Every blade of grass, whip crack, gun shot, footstep is picked up by the Ether C. For player vs player types, I suggest no tuning pads, or the second most neutral pad setup. On the immersion side, the depth of the bass fills out the battlefield ambience well, especially on warmer tuning setups. Speaking of tuning pads, while clarity and definition of objects and sounds are reduced a bit, it still remains very detailed, and a lot more enjoyable to play with if you're not gaming competitively. Sounds like the thunderous rumble of explosions, or heavy hum of a deep space frigate are beyond well represented.

As far as positional cues go, the Ether C paired with a virtual surround device like the Creative X7 is a match made in heaven. With no tuning pads, the already exceptional soundstage and magical imaging is enhanced by a very convincing sense of 360 degree space. No enemy will be creeping up behind you while you're wearing the Ether C. The big soundstage makes the sharply defined positional cues incredibly easy to locate.

As for virtual surround with tuning pads, the reduction of imaging quality and perception of soundstage isn't as drastic as when using the Ether C in a typical stereo situation. Positional cues are just as easy to locate in a 360 degree space, despite having less space to breathe in compared to having no tuning pads installed. Its fantastic immersion and great positional cues make casual gaming a highlight of my day.

It is among my absolute favorite headphones regardless of whether I'm looking for a very detailed killing machine, or if I want to sit back and enjoy the heavy action on screen. All bases are covered.

Personal Recommendations

Everything. No, really. The Ether C works well with absolutely everything I can throw at it. You want to focus on micro details? Take off the tuning pads, and go with the cleanest, most detailed variation of the Ether C sound. You want something bigger, bolder, with more forward presence? Add in the warmest pads and jam away. You want something in between? Instead of the white foams, just add in one or both of the black tuning foams to get very close to non-foam detail and clarity, with extra body and fullness of the warmer white foam tuning.

There is nothing I can think of that the Ether C can't do. It's that simple.

Final Impressions

Is the Ether C is for everyone? If price isn't considered, yes. I'd say the Ether C is absolutely for everyone.

You want detail monster? You have it. You want an intimate musical experience? You have it. You want a competitive gaming beast? You have it. You want a casual, fatigue free, enjoyable thrill ride? You have it. All while providing great noise isolation.

It may just be one headphone, but it may as well be three or four. It is able to do so many things, while making so many other headphones obsolete. This may as well be the only closed headphone you will ever need at home for all purposes, ever.

If you're looking to make the final step in your audio journey, and are looking for a top of the line, noise isolating headphone, stepping towards the Ether C makes all the sense in the world. I simply see no need to look further. It is that good. Don't pass up on the Ether C.

Likes, Dislikes, Unfiltered Final Thoughts

Pros:

Design/Build/Aesthetic
Deep, textured Bass
Well balanced, transparent midrange
Clear treble without over emphasis
Clarity throughout
Detail throughout
Stellar Imaging
Soundstage
Isolation/Leakage control
Tuning kit for extra warmth, less sibilance/harshness
Comfort
Sonic versatility (with or without tuning kit)

Cons:

Needs a bit more clearance for big heads
Hints of sibilance without tuning kit
Tuning pad negatives (reduced hyper detail, reduced imaging and soundstage properties, congestion on the warmest tuning with warm recordings)

Unfiltered Final Thoughts:

The Ether C reminds me of a super Alpha Dog with options. I wasn't able to try the Alpha Prime, but the Alpha Dog left an everlasting positive impression, as the best, well balanced, closed headphone I had ever heard at that point. I'm gushing about the Ether C harder than I ever gushed about the Alpha Dog with reason. If you ever heard the Alpha Dog but wanted less of the harshness up top, with an even bigger sense of space, and considerably more refinement, the Ether C would be right up your alley.

The Ether C falls under 'unobtanium' for my finances, but if I was in the market for a closed headphone at this price range, I honestly wouldn't even consider anything else. The Ether C will leave a mark on me for as long as my memory holds out. It was love at first listen, no doubts, no hesitation. The Ether C speaks for itself. It is undeniably special, and I'm sure many of you will agree.




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MrSpeakers Mad Dog v.3.2





Sells for $300 (w/alpha pads and comfort strap) (MrSpeakers website)



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I want to thank MrSpeakers and MattTCG for the loaners! Matt sent me the first MD I reviewed, and Dan (MrSpeakers himself) sent me the 3.2 version (May 2013 re-tuning). The MrSpeakers Mad Dog. A fully modified Fostex T50RP making a huge scene on Head-fi for it's sound quality, price, and comfort. The T50RP is a budget friendly, planar magnetic headphone well known for being extremely mod-friendly. The LFF Paradox and Smeggy Thunderpants are well known modded T50RPs that preceded the Mad Dog. However, the Mad Dog is the first to hit a price point that warranted the attention of the masses, and with good reason.

Build Quality:

The Mad Dog isn't cosmetically modified like the Thunderpants, so it is basically a T50RP on the outside, with the exception of a pad swap, an optional comfort strap, and MrSpeakers vinyl stickers on the ear cups. The ear cups are made of some pretty durable plastic. Not the most aesthetically pleasing ear cups, and a bit unassuming, but it has a retro-ish charm to them. The headband is made of a very pliable material that looks extremely durable. Lacks padding underneath, but the optional comfort strap more than makes up for it. Headband discomfort is the last thing you would ever think of when wearing the Mad Dog with the comfort strap. It's that comfortable on the head.

The extension bars are made of a brass/copper metal, and is the strongest part of the headphone. It's of a very, very generous length, which should fit comfortably even on watermelon-sized noggins. I'm a huge fan of headphones that allow that much freedom in terms of head-size. More companies need to follow suit. The two cables supplied are both quite good. The main 10ft cable is of decent thickness terminating in a 1/4" (6.3mm) plug. The shorter 6ft cable is undoubtedly one of the V-moda's 3.5mm to 3.5mm cables with one side ending in a 45 degree angle. Covered in cloth and being a bit more flexible due to it's thinness next to the bigger cable. Both seem very durable, and shouldn't be problematic with normal use. Dan chose well with his cables.

The Mad Dog comes with various pads. Each with their own distinct sound signature and comfort. The Mad Dog being reviewed here came with the Alpha pads, which are the newest, most linear, and most comfortable of the bunch. The Alpha pads are leather, angled, and very soft. While you all probably know how much I don't care for leather pads overall, I have to give credit where credit is due: these pads are VERY comfortable on the head, heat trapping issues aside.

Comfort:

As mentioned, the Mad Dog w/alpha pads and comfort strap is a very, very comfortable headphone overall. It's lightweight, would fit on any head, isn't oversized (*cough*LCD2*cough*), and doesn't clamp tightly (clamp can be adjusted by bending the headband, which extremely easy to do). The Mad Dogs I used for this review has some moderate clamp which I didn't wanna mess with, as I feel it's a good middle ground for comfort and sound quality.

Accessories:

The Mad Dogs come with: headphone, short cable, long cable, and a very nice velvet carrying pouch. That's all you need. I personally don't care for unnecessary accessories which add to the price, and Dan kept it simple, which I'm quite happy with.

Isolation/Leakage:

It's been awhile since I've heard a headphone that seals/isolates as well as the Mad Dog. It's incredibly silent in terms of leaking noise to the outside world, and it does a very good job of keeping external noise from coming in. Very, very good passive noise cancelling. If you need a headphone in the most noise polluted environments or need a headphone that won't ever bother others, the Mad Dog is a very, very safe bet.

Sound:

On to the sound. I did my homework on the Mad Dogs on more than one occasion, to the point of being one click away from ordering them prior to receiving these loaners. Basically glowing reviews all around, stating that they came very close to sounding like a closed LCD2, even down to having an incredibly similar frequency response. And all for a fraction of a price. Who wouldn't be interested in trying these out after all that's been written out there? So did the Mad Dog live to the extreme hype out there? Mostly, yes. Do they sound like a closed LCD2? Sort of. They do share similarities, but the Mad Dog is certainly not a closed back LCD2. The Mad Dog is a very balanced headphone, although being decidely on the dark side of neutral. Darker than the LCD2.

The LCD2 is still more neutral sounding, more spacious, more dimensional, and more refined. However, the Mad Dog has it's own personality and character, and I admire it's own strengths. The first pair I received on loan were from another head-fier (again, thank you, MattTCG), and didn't fit me quite so properly. I feel that my original review was premature, as I couldn't get it to sit perfectly on my head, possibly making it lose some fidelity. The latest Mad Dog (3.2) came fresh from MrSpeakers, and fit me like a glove. Also, most of my complaints with the original pair reviewed were quickly dismissed. The Mad Dog (3.2) was almost everything I hoped for them to be.

Bass:

The Mad Dog has a very balanced, very slightly romanticized bass. It sounds very well textured, and unlike the first pair, immediately engaging. In comparison to the LCD2, the bass did have a similar feel, impact, and presence. The LCD2's bass is still more refined and textured, but the Mad Dog's bass (being in a closed back design), resonated a little more, giving them a longer, and (IMHO) more enjoyable decay. Unlike the original pair I reviewed, the bass on the Mad Dogs not only sounds organic and correct, but has an amazing sense of body, emotion, and presence without ever becoming overwhelming. It's an AMAZINGLY balanced, and full bodied bass, that just fits right in with the rest of the sound. In the original pair, I felt the bass to be the most disappointing aspect of sound in the MD. With the MD 3.2, the bass has quickly become my FAVORITE aspect of it's sound. The bass on the Mad Dogs add a great layer of immersion. It's the near perfect blend of fullness and balance which translates incredibly well for movies and fun games in particular.

Mids:

Originally the biggest area of strength in the Mad Dogs, the 3.2 pushes the mids back slightly. The mids sound rich, warm, organic, and intimate, but aren't as forward as the previous version reviewed. They never come off as shouty or fatiguing, nor do they sound distant or lost in the mix. Most vocals come off quite naturally. They aren't 'special' in the sense that they aren't as immediately engaging as the LCD2's or HD650's mids, but they are still quite good and even great at times. It's biggest weakness is in the extreme upper mids to lower treble where some 'S' sound come off a little artificial and sizzly.

Treble:

The treble will be either love/hate for everyone. The Mad Dog is a bit dark, making the treble quite non-fatiguing, but not the clearest I've heard. Due to the closed nature of the Mad Dog, the treble is hampered by it's lack of air. I personally don't mind the treble presentation of the Mad Dog at all. I feel they have enough presence to be considered natural, but I can see it being a concern for those who prefer a bit more sparkle/clarity. The treble is a hint more clearer in the 3.2 than the previous version reviewed, so the Mad Dog doesn't sound as closed and congested as before.

Soundstage:

This is an area I can't seem to agree with quite a few people in on the main Mad Dog thread. Personally, I feel the Mad Dog lacks quite a bit in air overall, and it's size is decent at best for a closed headphone. That's the nature of closed headphones. Very few exceptions (i.e. D7000, DT770 Pro 80), and the Mad Dog is somewhere in the middle. It sounds decidedly closed in comparison to the more recent open headphones I've compared them to, including the LCD2 which isn't exactly the most open sounding headphone itself. The 3.2 does breathe just a hint more than the previous version reviewed. Another change is in it's depth. I previously didn't think it had a very good sense of depth. I don't know how, but the soundstage depth is one of the areas that noticeably improved for me. The Mad Dog isn't AMAZING in it's width, however, it's depth is pretty good.

Positioning:

I'm not going to lie when I say that as enthusiastic as I was about the Mad Dog, none of that enthusiasm was for it's potential to be good for gaming. Prior to hearing the Mad Dog, I expected it to not be amazing for gaming. I expected something like the M50 in that it would make a much better headphone for music and stereo gaming than virtual surround/Dolby Headphone gaming. The Mad Dog (3.2) actually does quite well for gaming for a closed headphone. The depth of the Mad Dog's soundstage helped it's positional accuracy. Despite it's closed back characteristics, the Mad Dogs do good for competitive gaming, and are EXCEPTIONAL for non-competitive gaming. Positional cues were good overall. The depth of the placement was pretty impressive which aided in pinpointing sounds quite a bit better in comparison to the more closed sounding headphones (i.e. Audio Technica M50).

Clarity:

The clarity for gaming is actually quite excellent. The Mad Dog benefits greatly from it's linear frequency response. Bass never creeps up and masks details, so all manner of sounds are heard quite easily. Clarity is a strength for the Mad Dogs, despite it's darker than neutral tonality. It shares this with both the LCD2 and HD650: Dark, but still plenty clear.

Amping:

Although I no longer have the Mixamp to truly test whether the Mad Dog needs additional amping for gaming purposes, I believe it does, as it requires more off my Marantz receiver and Compass 2 than the LCD2. It also gained a better sense of space and separation off my Compass 2 than off my Marantz alone. Ultimately, you will wanna invest in a good amp to bring out the Mad Dog's potential, though they are enjoyable with lesser equipment.

Value:

At $300, The Mad Dog represents an AMAZING value. It is easily my favorite closed headphone outside of the elusive Denon D7000. They are truly a great pair of music, movie and immersive gaming headphones. At $300, the Mad Dogs deliver an exceptional sound. Although I certainly don't put it in the same class as the LCD2 (which people loved to compare it to), I would say that it is clearly the best CLOSED alternative. That alone makes them quite a necessity for those who want planar goodness in a closed back design. It is a stellar performer for it's price, and I'm not usually a fan of closed headphones. For their low price of admission, these are truly a master of the price to performance ratio.

Final Impressions:

Not much else to say. The Mad Dog is a true wonder of the modding community. Transforming a $100 headphone into a $300 headphone that competes incredibly well in it's price range, despite it's closed back design. I have mentioned this already: If you need a closed headphone that isolates well...look no further. The Mad Dog is more than likely what you want. Well balanced (though on the dark side), very organic/natural with full, immersive bass, very good mids, and good treble (with a few rough edges). The total package is very, very impressive. One of the very best 'fun' gaming and movie headphones, and one of my personal faves for my heavy music genres like Trap, D&B, Trip Hop, and Chillstep.





Spoiler: Fun: 8.75 (Excellent)



Natural, full-bodied bass that greatly enhances immersion in games and movies. One of my absolute favorites for fun despite it not being heavily colored, nor it having the biggest soundstage.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7 (Good)



Clear and balanced sound, Good depth for a closed headphone aids in positional cues, despite the Mad Dog not being among the best in soundstage size or width for gaming.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



The Mad Dog is the most comfortable leather padded closed headphone I've heard outside of the post-stretched M50s. If leather isn't an issue for you, the Mad Dog should bring little to no discomfort.



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Shure SRH1540




$500
Where To Buy: Amazon.com


Spoiler: Review



My full review of the Shure SRH1540 can be found at Headphone.guru. Please stop by and check it out!





Spoiler: Fun: 8.5/10 (Great)



Lively bass, great immersive soundstage leads to a very fun headphone for games and movies.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8/10 (Great)



Despite it's slightly distant midrange, the 1540 has a very good soundstage, and clear audio cues, making it very good even for competitive gaming.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8/10 (Great)



It may take an adjustment period to get used to the downforce caused by the dual headband. Other than that minor issue at first, the 1540 is an incredibly comfortable headphone, especially for a closed-back headphone.





Spoiler: Overall: 8.25/10 (Great)



I highly doubt many people would be dissatisfied with the level of performance on the SRH1540. I'd classify it as a near total package. There simply aren't that many headphones that resonate with me as well as the SRH1540.



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Shure SRH1840





SRH1840 at Shure.com
MSRP $499.99
Where To Buy: Amazon



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I'd like to personally give huge thanks to Change is Good for sending me the SRH1840 for review. He also was kind enough to send me the Schiit Asgard 2 and SRH1540 ear pads!

The SRH1840. Ever since the first images of the 1840 surfaced online, I became very interested in it, as it looked like a higher end HD650 made by another company. The HD650 is one of my personal favorites aesthetically, and for that reason alone, the 1840 was on my sights (shame on me). I hadn't personally heard any Shure headphone prior to the 1840, but the fully open design and it being Shure's flagship circumaural headphone intrigued me. I had absolutely no idea on what type of sound Shure is known for. All I knew was that the 1840 was aimed at neutrality. A neutral-oriented, completely open headphone with velour pads? Sounded like something I'd completely go for in terms of competitive gaming and long-term comfort. How did it fare? Did it meet the expectations of it being comfy, detailed, and open, with competitive gaming prowess?

Note: Unless I specifically state as such, this review is made with the 1840 and it's stock velour pads in mind. In some instances, I may make some impressions of the 1840 with the SRH1540 Alcantara pads, which Change is Good generously supplied. I will specifically mention when the 1540 pads are used. The 1540 pads are sold separately.

Build Quality:
Rating: Great

I distinctly remember reading online, someone stating that the 1840's build quality wasn't as impressive as it looked. I feel that the 1840 is well built, considering how little there is in the way of external design. The headband is essentially split into two thin headbands covered in leather (unsure whether it's genuine or synthetic). This is about the only real area on the 1840 I wish would've been different, as it just makes sense to have one single headband pressing down to the scalp, not two. The 1840 leaves two VERY distinct red indentations on my head after extended periods of use. Unsure whether it's just my aversion to faux leather on my skin (I tend to keep my hair extremely short), or if it's the downward force of the dual headband that is causing those marks. It's not uncomfortable by any means, but it is worth noting.

The aluminum, gunmetal-toned, extension arms feel very solid, which I don't foresee ever, ever breaking or bending without some truly powerful force put behind it. There are no clicks, or grooves for size adjustments. The 1840 resizes in a very smooth manner, which may be a problem for those who like to perfectly match left and right sides. The arms hold the ovally shaped plastic cups, which may be a contrast to the strong aluminum, but doesn't look out of place in the general design of the 1840. The plastic doesn't feel cheap or fragile, and I'm happy to find that they aren't covered in fingerprint-prone gloss. Just a non-descript matte black which lends itself well to the 1840's no nonsense styling. The cups swivel vertically, but not horizontally, which may be a problem for oddly shaped heads, though I don't have any personal issues with it.

The outer cup's grills are a thing of absolute beauty. Reminiscent to the grills of the Sennheiser HD650, this grill design is among my absolute favorite designs for open-backed headphones. There is no branding, logos, etc., giving owners a glimpse at the 1840's exposed internals. I'm a sucker for naked drivers, and the 1840 does not disappoint. This may be the only area on the 1840 that truly stands out aesthetically, among the otherwise safe and inoffensive design. The 1840's oval pads are made of incredibly comfortable, soft, and airy velour, which are also easily removable for cleaning/replacement. I don't see how these pads can't fit over everyone's ears properly. Among the best pads I have ever used.

The 1840's cups house Shure's proprietary connection. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of this type of input and would've preferred standard 3.5mm or mini-XLR inputs. The dual ended cable is pretty standard fare. Not overly thin nor thick, neither too short nor too long, it gets the job done. Non-grippy and doesn't seem prone to tangling. On the source end, it terminates into a gold-plated, straight 3.5mm plug with a screw on 6.3mm adapter. The barrel is thick (Shure branded), with a great amount of strain relief. I can understand why people would upgrade the cable to something a little more luxurious, though I don't have any specific issue with it. It's just a decent, utilitarian cable.

After all is said and done, the Shure 1840's build quality is pretty top-notch, though a bit less luxurious than the price would suggest. It's just well built and non-descript.

Accessories:

The 1840 comes with the bare essentials and then some.





Spoiler: Review




Hard Case. You can never, ever go wrong with an included hard case.
Extra velour pads. Among the best pads on any headphone, and you get an extra pair. Good on you, Shure.
Two sets of 6ft cables. Not sure why there is a need for two identical cables, but I guess you can just leave one cable at home, and the other elsewhere.
6.3mm gold-plated adapter

Comfort:
Rating: Amazing.

Personally, I feel there isn't much out there that compares to the 1840's comfort. It is relatively lightweight, clamps just enough without being too loose or tight, and the oval cups allow the 1840 to be worn while laying down. The velour pads allow plenty of air to keep your ears cool, with plenty of diameter to fit any sized ears. The pads may be among THE best pads I have ever felt, bested by only a handful of pads, one being Shure's own SRH1540 Alcantara pads, which are ever so slightly even more pleasing on the ears, though don't keep the ears as cool. The only real downsides in terms of comfort is the dual headband design (leaves two noticeable red indentations on my head) and the lack of horizontal swivel, which may be an issue to some. The 1840 is a headphone I could easily live with as a main gaming headphone, since I can wear it all day, and feel no real discomfort.

Design Issues:

As mentioned before, the split headband design is unneccessary, and would've been more comfortable as a single headband design. Not sure if Shure did it for weight or aesthetic reasons. The only other real design issue I see is the lack of horizontal swivel on the cups, as it limits freedom of movement to adjust for oddly shaped heads.

Isolation/Leakage:

As a completely open headphone, you seriously can't expect much if any isolation from the 1840. Not that it needs to be said, but anyone in your general vicinity will hear what you're listening to. In short, if you need noise control, don't use the 1840 or any other fully open-backed headphone. It isn't terribly noisy, but the noise leak is loud enough to be an issue if you need to keep quiet.

Sound:
Rating: Very Good.

The SRH1840 at first listen comes off as a neutral (if just slightly cold up top), open, crisp, detailed headphone, with fantastic and natural soundstage. It has all the makings of a great, analytically oriented, open headphone, and I'm happy to report that it is, for the most part. If you don't pay attention to it's price, you can appreciate the sound quality, despite some shortcomings.


With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Decent.

The 1840 with 1540 pads takes on a completely different character. It becomes v-shaped with strong bass, recessed mids, and similar (not identical), energetic treble to the stock pads.

Bass
Rating: Decent

This is without question the weakest area of the 1840's sound in both quantity and quality. The bass overall is *just* south of neutral, giving way to the 1840's stellar mids, and crisp treble. Fortunately, the 1840 is not without warmth in the bass. It reminds me of the old K701's bass in that it does have some warmth and body behind it, though it ultimately falls slightly behind the rest of the spectrum. It noticeably rolls off in the sub bass, so don't expect some impact in the lowest depths. The bass keeps a good sense of speed and decay, being just a tad too quick to decay for my own preference. It is well textured, though in it's good texturing, the distortions can become noticeable. Though it can be categorized as bass light and on the lean side, there are instances where the bass hits with some good punch, and the tone in the bass keeps the 1840 sounding relatively well balanced and neutral. As briefly mentioned before, the problem with the 1840's bass is the somewhat audible distortion. It's not a clearly noticeable problem, and many people may not even notice, but it is there, and depending on your listening volume and sources, you just may hear it easily enough. Overall, I don't find it to be a glaring issue, but one that doesn't befit the 1840's price and status as Shure's current flagship open-backed headphone.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Decent

It is a different beast. No longer is the 1840 bass light, now transformed into quite a bass heavy behemoth. Plenty of bass body that surprisingly reaches quite low and deep for an open headphone, with substantial impact. It is truly a wonder how a fully open headphone like the 1840 retains a lot of bass energy just with a change of pads. The pad swap to the 1540 pads effectively allow the drivers to work considerably less to provide a more than satisfactory amount of bass. The bass is noticeably slower than the stock pad's bass. The 1540 pad's bass is long of note and decay. It has a very euphonic amount of decay which lingers in a manner which makes it seem like it wants to make a statement. Yes, the bass is potent, and can be considered basshead friendly. Quite possibly more potent than the X1 or DT990's bass which are the only two open fully dynamic headphones I have heard with truly potent bass. It is truly and undeniably powerful. It can most definitely stand to be more controlled, but it is by no means a messy bass. Just very prominent.

Mids:
Rating: Great

This is the greatest strength in the 1840, being neutral, well presented and balanced, with clear definition and sharpness. Vocals sound proper, focused, and lively without being too forward, or too distant. There is some articial forwardness in the upper mids which may cause some fatigue at louder volumes. The mids aren't thick of note, nor too thin. It's pretty accurate sounding to my ears overall, if just a little on the cold side. Not cold as in dry or lifeless, but things like vocals come off ever so slightly less organic rather than perfectly natural.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Decent

This is where the drawbacks of the pad swap manifest. The mids take a very noticeable step back. The bass isn't to blame, as even in bass light recordings, the mids are noticeably pushed back and bit stuffy at times. This is easily the biggest tradeoff when changing from the stock pads to the SRH1540 pads, and if you bear major importance on mids, you will not be pleased by the difference. It isn't overly offensive, but it is a definite step down from the fantastic mids of the stock pads. It sounds a bit low-fi comparison to it's bass and treble. The mids are no longer well defined, and now sound a bit diffused and a bit mashed in with the background.

As an example: At times, some 'S' sounds may sound like 'TH' or even 'F'. Something like "Set me free" may sound like "Thet me free".

So all in all, you gain a LOT of bass energy, and lose mid clarity. This will undoubtedly convert the 1840 into a lower end headphone, but one that may much more appreciated for bass heavy genres, especially songs that don't rely on vocals.

Treble:
Rating: Great

An abundant amount of sparkle and clarity, without it being overwhelming or artificial sounding. The treble further aids the soundstage, particularly in gaming. The treble can at times sound a bit bright, especially at louder volumes. For this reason, along with it not being to handle loud volumes as well as I'd hope, I feel the 1840 works best at a moderate volumes or less. The louder you get, the brighter and less natural sounding the treble will get.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Very Good

I don't hear a massive change between the stock pads and the 1540 pads in terms of it's treble. There is still a clean sharpness. Less zing overall up top, but still lively. Due to the added warmth and body of the bass, the 1840 with the 1540 pads doesn't sound as bright and is less fatiguing at louder volumes in comparison. Due to the much stronger level of bass, and recessed mids, the treble doesn't aid the sense of space in the same manner as it did with the stock pads.

Clarity:
Rating: Fantastic.

As usual for every neutrally balanced, slightly bass shy headphones I have reviewed, clarity is abundant. It's detailed to a fault, as it can easily pick apart bad recordings. It's not as ruthless as the Alpha Dogs, and can shave off some upper end harshness, but overall, this is not a headphone to use for less than stellar recordings. On the gaming side, the 1840 can venture on god-mode inducing, aural wall-hacking. It's not necessary to spend this much money for an amazingly clear headphone for gaming purposes (AKG K70x series has you covered on the cheaper front), though it is here, if you're interested in the 1840.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Very Decent

The bass sounds quite dominating, and the treble still shines and sparkles, with less aggression. That leaves just the mids, which sadly drop off considerably, lessening clarity by a noticeable amount. If you want clarity, leave the 1840 with it's stock velour pads, as intended. It's decent overall, but clearly on a lower level from the 1840's inherent clarity.

Soundstage:
Rating: Fantastic.

The soundstage on the 1840 is airy, spacious, and plentiful. It is among the most natural-sounding soundstages I've heard, with a natural size, neither being too contricted nor overly wide/deep. While there may be headphones that reach out further to the sides, they may be lacking in depth, so the soundstage may sound inconsistent. This is not an issue with the 1840. Just naturally spaced to my ears.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Good.

While the soundstage is reduced by a fair amount with the 1540 pads, it is still relatively open and spacious. Definitely spacious enough for some solid gaming. It could stand to be deeper, but that's my only complaint. With a huge bass boost, a tradeoff of soundstage was to be expected. Bass driven headphones tend to suffer a bit in terms of soundstage size. Not a golden rule, but one that applies more often than not.

Positioning:
Rating: Amazing.

As expected of an open headphone with a fantastic soundstage, the positional cues are easily top tier. Very easy to locate in the virtual space, regardless of direction, with amazing clarity, and no bass bleed intruding on the mids. If you happen to own the 1840, there really isn't any need to own another headphone for competitive gaming purposes. It is that good. Many times did I feel like I was verging on god-mode level type sound-whoring.

With SRH1540 pads:
Rating: Good.

The reduction in soundstage as well as hazy mids make it a little harder to pinpoint sounds compared to the stock pads. However, the 1840 remains fairly competent for all forms of gaming, with the added bonus of being even more immersive and fun. Chances are, if you're going to play competitively, you're gonna want to stick to the stock pads. That being said, competitive gaming with the 1540 pads isn't an impossible task, as I was still able to perform very well in my tests, and didn't have as hard a time locating sounds as I was expecting with the mid recession and strong bass presence. It was clearly not as easy a task as it was when gaming with the stock pads, but overall, I didn't find much wrong with it.

Amping:
Necessary

I found it to require some moderate amping, both for game chat boosting purposes, and in order to aid it's less than organic tone. For gaming, I found the Mixamp to lack enough juice to power both the 1840 and game chat at a moderate volume. You will definitely want more than just a portable amp for the 1840. To further aid the sound quality, I would heavily advise on connecting it to a desktop amp that is known to sound darker/warmer than neutral. This will better offset the deficiences and mitigate some of the slight coldness up top. I wouldn't use either Schiit Magni, or Objective O2 for the 1840. Perhaps a warm tube amp would suit it best. Without the need of voice chat, I felt the 1840 to do well with the Mixamp alone, though chances are, if you're thinking of the 1840, you'll most likely want to invest on a good desktop amp to bring them up to their potential.

Personal Recommendation?:



Movies, Music, In General? No
Gaming? Yes

I know this may sound as a surprise, considering how high it has scored overall, but as it stands, I feel the SRH1840 is a bit overpriced at $500. At it's original MSRP of $875, I would've considered it to be an absolute rip off. $350 sounds more along the lines of what I think would be a good price for it when you add up all it's strengths. If you happen to already own the 1840, you're basically set with a competitive gaming beast. However, seeing as I feel they really only do exceedingly well for competitive gaming, and detail analyzing, there are cheaper headphones that also do well in this regard for a fraction of the price. For other forms of media, I feel it's just a tad bit too cold and analytical to truly evoke much excitement. It's not completely lacking in musicality, but it isn't exactly what I'd describe as musical. Definitely more technical than musical. In stock form, it's current price puts it dangerously close to some truly wonderful headphones without it's shortcomings, which is why I can't give my personal recommendation as far as a headphone I'd use for all purposes.

With SRH1540 pads:



Movies, Music, In General? Maybe
Gaming? Yes

The 1540 pad swap makes it considerably more fun at the expense of clarity and mids in general. While the 1840 with the 1540 pads isn't anything special, it's still decent enough for general use, except where clarity (especially in the mids) is important. If you own/plan on owning the 1840, the 1540 pads makes it an enjoyable headphone for non-competitive gaming and media not reliant on mids. Not going to blow anyone's mind (except in terms of how potent the bass is even on an open headphone), but all it takes is a simple pad swap, not a whole other headphone.

Final Impressions:

I'm a bit torn with the 1840. Had it been priced at around $350, I think it would have held it's ground very well for those looking for an crisp and clear headphone. As stated earlier, I feel it's a bit overpriced, despite it's strengths. The bass needs some work in both reducing distortion and meeting the rest of the spectrum to aim true neutrality. I feel it could also use a tad more warmth in terms of balance, to my ears. It is still fairly competent, with MANY virtues (excellent clarity, mids, soundstage, comfort), which may tip some towards purchasing it. The 1840 is a solid headphone, especially for competitive gaming, though a bit overpriced due to it's bass needing some refinement.

With the SRH1540 pads:

If you already own a good headphone you find fun and immersive, the 1840 equipped with 1540 pads probably won't outperform them in any real capacity other than bass quantity (not quality) and comfort. If you don't happen to own one, forking over the small amount of funds necessary for the 1540 pads will essentially give you a whole new, decent, bass driven headphone. I feel it's worth the small investment, considering the not so subtle change in sonic characteristics that more or less compliment the stock 1840's detail oriented sound.





Spoiler: Fun: 6.5 (Decent)



While it doesn't exactly excite me for music in any real manner, the added warmth of Dolby headphone lended itself well to the 1840, allowing the 1840 to sound a bit more engaging. As far as other open headphones like the Q701 and MA900, they definitely outperform the 1840 as far as fun gaming goes, with a stronger impact in bass which aids immersion.





Spoiler: Fun (SRH1540 pads): 7.75/10 (Very Good)



Plenty of bass and immersion, at the expense of some clarity mainly in the mids. The 1540 pads reduce the soundstage a bit, though not enough to completely hamper the 1840's ability to throw a decent soundstage for non-competitive gaming.





Spoiler: Competitive: 9/10 (Amazing)



Get ready for lots of god mode level sound-whoring without the harshness of headphones like the AD700, or plastic tonality of the older K701.





Spoiler: Competitive (SRH1540 pads): 6.75 (Decent)



The big bass, and hazy mids hurt the 1840's competitive gaming prowess, though it isn't a complete loss, as it still does decently in this regard. If you're focused on competitive gaming, stickthe stock 1840 pads.





Spoiler: Comfort: 9/10 (Amazing)



Easily amongst the best in comfort. Excellent weight, and amazing velour pads that breathe easy, aren't too soft, or too firm. It's lack of horizontal swivel may be an issue to some, and the split headband may cause double the downforce on your head, though I'm willing to bet not many will have an issue with comfort whatsoever. As for the 1540 pads, they are even more comfortable than the stock velour pads, though they trap heat a bit more.





Spoiler: Overall: 8/10 (Great)



*IF* I exclude the price, I feel the 1840 is an excellent headphone overall for gaming in particular. It will undoubtedly come off as polarizing to some however. As it stands, I consider it a poor value price-wise, though if you buy the 1540 pads, you can think of it as owning two complimentary headphones for the price of one, with one being considerably more refined than the other.



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Sennheiser HD650

Sells for $350-$500


Spoiler: Review



Oh, one of the most beloved and well known headphones in the audiophile community. These were my 'dream' headphone since the beginning of my audiophile journey. One I never thought I'd ever buy back then. It's also one of the few headphones that after I learned what sonic quality I wanted in a headphone, didn't think I would personally like. If I had bought them months or years ago, I'm not sure I would've liked them. I tend to prefer a bright, aggressive, bass and treble-centric headphone. The HD650 is known to be the opposite. Dark/warm, relaxed, and smooth, with dulled treble response. You can see why I was very adamant about not ever giving these a chance.

It wasn't until recently that I wanted to venture out and look for something a little different from my normal preferences. An alternative that I'd use whenever I wanted to sit back, and enjoy a soothing sound, with forward mids/vocals that I could watch my TV shows, movies, anime with. Ironically, my secondary can is considerably more expensive than my main can (DT990s) at the time. Lol, Head-fi logic. Well, I went and took the plunge, hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. I thought I would hate them. Really. It was an experiment that would cost me, but one I needed to do at some point, as the HD650 was always that ONE headphone I was always curious about (more than any other).

So what happened? Did I like them? Hate them? To my surprise... I loved them for music, movies, TV, and anime, and liked but wasn't thrilled by them for gaming. Let's get into the sound.

Bass:

The lows. Well, this is surprising. They are actually pretty bassy. Not DT990 bassy, but they have a nice, full, bassy sound. I'd say it's between the DT880 and 990 in presence. It's a warm bass, with medium speed. Pretty much ideal for all-rounder headphones with good bass that would please those that like balance and a fun signature. The bass quantity is enjoyable for all crowds, unless you're a pure neutral-head or pure bass-head. I didn't find myself wanting more bass, though they do roll off in the sub-bass, which is typical of most dynamic headphones, something the HE-400 has no problems with.

If I could score the bass, it'd be; Quantity: 7.5, Quality: 8. Just really pleasing bass all around.

Mids:

This is the star of the show. And when I say star... I mean, it is absolutely one of the best interpretation of mids/vocals I have EVER heard on any headphone...EVER. I'm usually fine with mid recession as I tend to prefer bass and treble emphasis, but MAN... once I heard the HD650... it made me see mids in a whole new light. The vocals are so sweet, so upfront, so rich, so haunting! Based on mids alone, I recommend this headphone to ANYONE looking for a headphone that does vocals some amazing justice. The only other headphone that provides really sweet mids that I've heard is the Audio Technica ESW9, but the ESW9 is a closed on ear, with a considerably smaller soundstage, and overly smooth treble, and stuffy sound signature in comparison. The ESW9 is good, but not HD650 good.

The HD598 also has very forward mids, but I felt the lean bass, and thinner sound, made the mids sound unnaturally forward and shouty. The warmth and fullness of the HD650 basically destroyed any chance the HD598 had in a direct comparison. There was no competition. The HD650's mids demolish the HD598's in tone, realism, and richness. The HE400 is often compared to the HD650, and despite my preference for the HE400, the HD650 is clearly the king of mids here. The HE400 has great, INTEGRATED mids, that don't sound pushed back or forward with a realistic tone. That being said, the HD650's forward mids are special. The HD650 clearly wins here. As far as Q701 and HD650's mids, the HD650 wins again. The Q701 has forward mids, but they aren't nearly as full sounding, or as rich.

Long story shot, the mids are godly. If I had to score them: Quantity: 10, Quality: 10. That is perfection, because that's how I feel about the HD650's mids.

Treble:

Oh the treble. This is single-handedly the ONLY reason I have put off getting the HD650 for so long. If you read about the HD650, the treble will always be discussed and debated on. Are they too smooth, rolled off, undetailed... veiled? This is a debate that will never end on Head-fi. As a fan of treble sparkle and some emphasis, I was absolutely mortified about hearing what people said of the HD650's smooth, laid back, dull, treble.

So how did they sound to me? Surprisingly, I REALLY liked the treble! I didn't LOVE it. I still do prefer some more sparkle, but as the relaxing alternative to my typical treble emphasized headphones, I didn't find the treble overly smooth or dull on the HD650. Trust me, when your main can is the DT990 which is known for it's SUPER treble emphasis, and compare it directly to the much more reserved and rolled off treble of the HD650, you would tend to notice a huge difference. In all honestly, I really thought the treble on the HD650s was right where it should be for the type of headphone that the HD650 is. Without that treble, I think the HD650 wouldn't sound as rich and 'creamy' as they do. Would I use the HD650s as my ONLY headphone? To be frank, no. They performed well in absolutely everything except genres that desired an aggressive signature. Stuff like metal, and EDM just didn't have the energy on the HD650s. So no, they aren't the perfect all rounders. However, through some vocal dependent tracks, and stuff like movies, TV, and most non-music needs (even gaming), the HD650s are indeed in a very good place. Unfortunately, I tend to listen to EDM and metal more than anything, so the HD650 lost a few points.

To score the treble; Quality: 7, Quantity: 7. If the treble is boosted by a bit, these could be what I'd consider very natural to neutral with a slight emphasis towards bass. I think they'd be less rich overall though, so I personally wouldn't want to touch what makes the HD650 what they are.

Amping:

I have the HD650 paired up with the Audio-GD SA-31 which is much more powerful than pretty much any amp most of you use, or would use, so I'm not exactly sure how they'd sound with less power, but I personally felt that they aren't as hard to drive as people make them out to be. They need considerably less power than the DT990/600, and possibly even the DT990/250. I'd say they'd need about as much as the DT990/32 for at LEAST volume level. We know power =/= volume, but it helps. To be clear: they do not need a lot to be driven LOUDLY. I tested them with the Mixamp only, and they can be driven off it loud enough. I didn't test it enough to see how well they're actually driven, but they sounded good. They may be a little thinner sounding, which could actually be a good thing for gaming, as it makes pinpointing sounds a bit easier than the very rich, thick signature the HD650s have with the SA-31.

Okay, so how did they perform for gaming?

Soundstage:

I haven't gotten to the specifics of gaming with the HD650s yet, but I'll mention the soundstage first. With and without extra amping the Mixamp, I felt the HD650's soundstage to be medium sized. Not big, and not little. However, I didn't find them to be stellar in terms of depth, so the sense of space for gaming, wasn't as good as I would have hoped. I was always expecting the HD650 to not be the greatest pairing for Dolby Headphone, and my fears were slightly warranted. The front/back depth isn't great. Let's get that out of the way. The width is good, but not close to being the best. The DT990 destroys the HD650 in both depth and width. So how's the air within the soundstage? Well, the problem with the HD650, is that it's a very full sounding headphone. Thick, warm tone tends to make the soundstage seems less airy and smaller. This is one of those times where a thinner/leaner sounding headphone has the advantage, like the AD700/HD598/K701. The HD650 isn't STUFFY like say the ESW9, but that rich tonality doesn't help gamers.

Positioning:

Positioning and soundstage tend to go hand in hand, so if the soundstage isn't great, the positional cues will suffer. How did the HD650 fare positional-wise? Well, they were good. Not great, and could obviously be better, but they do their job. I could play something like Black Ops without any problems, though having used headphones much better for soundstage/positioning, I could tell they lacked a bit. I'd put the HD650 just ever so slightly above the DT880 positional wise, but they aren't that much better.

Clarity:

You need clarity for soundwhoring in competitive gaming. Despite the laid back treble, I found the natural tone of the HD650 to be very detailed. The forward mids came off very clean and clear, and I felt I didn't miss any sounds. I've heard better overall (even the 990's are better for soundwhoring). The problem is that the HD650 is a very thick sounding headphone. Basically, the issues I explained in the soundstage section is what hurts clarity for gaming purposes.

Comfort:

I mentioned that Sennheiser likes their clamp. The HD201, HD280 Pro (!), PC360, and HD598 all have some form of clamp. The HD650 is no different. They do clamp a bit more than I'd personally like, but it's a minor gripe overall. I find the HD650 to be very comfortable overall, and over extending the arms a little, to wear the HD650 slightly loose alleviates the clamp a bit. I've felt better, but not much better. The velours are great. Not too firm, and not too soft. The cups are huge and will fit ears very comfortably. I like the oval shape, which makes them easier to use while laying down compared to circular cups.

Value:

The Sennheiser HD650 is a considerably expensive headphone. If your main purpose for getting a headphone is gaming, there are considerably better options for less. If pure audio fidelity, and non-gaming purposes is your main purpose, the HD650 is incredibly hard to beat. Their sound signature is just stellar for most things, save for a few genres, and they're competent for gaming, just not stellar. I personally can't justify owning both the HD650 and HE-400, so I stuck with the HE-400 which is a more energetic, and better equipped for gaming use.

Final Impressions:

The HD650 has a very special place in my heart. It took years to finally take the plunge, but I'm VERY glad I did. They have quickly become one of my very favorite headphones. Though their gaming performance isn't as stellar as I would have hoped, it's better than I expected. I absolutely love the HD650 overall, and they have made me see the importance of mids, if even for just non-gaming, non-music use. Movies and TV shows are made for the HD650. Their incredible tonality, rich/full sound, perfect mids are an absolute blessing. Treble is definitely it's weakest aspect of sound, but they aren't veiled, just...reserved.

For gamers looking for all-rounders, these do put up a fight. They're better than the vast majority of headphones I mentioned on this guide in terms of audio fidelity, but in raw performance for gaming, they're outclassed by others costing considerably less.

Final Scores....


Fun: 8 (Great)
Competitive: 7 (Good)
Comfort: 8 (Great)
Overall: 8 (Great)

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Stax SR-407

DISCONTINUED



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I want to thank Justin at Headamp for loaning these out to me. If it weren't for Justin and Headamp, I don't think I would have become as interested in electrostatics as I am now. To drive the SR-407, I was also sent the Stax SRM-252S electrostatic amp (NOT the amp pictured above), which is also sold on Headamp for $495. The SR-407 is the very first electrostatic headphone I've demoed. I honestly did not know what to expect. Perhaps my assumption of 'stats in general was that they were mostly on the bright side with lots of air and detail, perhaps too analytical, sterile, and dry. I didn't read much into 'stats as they were a niche product in my eyes, being too situational, too expensive, and too picky with what you can use them with. They need their own specialized amps, unlike dynamic and planar magnetic headphones which work with most traditional devices. Electrostats just seemed too restrictive for my taste. I didn't like their looks (aside from the Sennheiser Orpheus, Stax Omega 007, and 009). I can honestly say that while they are indeed a bit restrictive, electrostatics are more than worth looking into.

Build Quality:

The Stax SR-407's build quality isn't anything special. It has an extremely retro design, made of almost all brown plastic from what I can see. The cups are rectangular and aesthetically hideous to my eyes, but there is a charm to it's non-standard looks. The adjustment sliders are decent, and hold their place very well. I'd prefer a little more freedom in it's extension, but it fits me fine at full extension. The headband strap is absolutely the best part of the 407's build, the underside covered in extremely soft and comfortable suede-like material.

The earpads are made of brown pleather (I believe). There isn't a lot of surface contact area, so it's not horribly sweat inducing as other pleather-padded headphones. It could definitely stand to be thicker, though that may alter the amazing sound quality.

The cable is flat/ribbon-like and a very decent length. Seems to be tangle proof. It's a bit wide and strap like. I'm definitely a fan of this type of cable.

Comfort:

The Stax-407 is passable in comfort. It's pretty lightweight, but the rectangular cup design will feel awkward at first. The 407 is lightweight. The pads don't have much contact with the skin, but it's pleather, and ultimately will induce sweat. As mentioned previously, the pads are a bit thin, and with a little force, you can feel the plastic housing so close to the skin.

The headband strap is soft, and perfectly forms to one's head shape. Quite possibly the most comfortable headband 'strap' I've ever felt. Literally no force felt on the top of my head. The clamping force is moderate. The 407 feels secure on my head. Not loose, not too tight.

Accessories:

Bare essentials. Just the headphone.

Isolation/Leakage:

It's an extremely open headphone, so don't expect any privacy in or out.

Sound:

The sound? THE SOUND. If there was one word to describe the SR-407 (and I assume any 'stat worth their grain in salt), that word would be: EFFORTLESS. What I mean is that the 407 sounds like producing sound is the easiest thing to do in the world. It's almost problematic, because you can pump up the volume to louder than bearable levels, and it will happily sing with no perceivable distortion anywhere to be found. I found myself jamming out to music and realizing that it's a bit louder than I tend to listen to with other headphones. That's how clear, grain free, smooth, and effortless the sound quality is. This is indeed the first time I have felt that there is ZERO fault in the headphone if you ever hear distortions.

The 407 is a neutral sounding headphone. Quite linear, with lots of speed, texture, quick decay, air, and instrument separation in spades. There is basically NO harhness to be found despite it not being rolled off. I've heard smoother/darker headphones that can be harsh. I don't know how the 407 does it, but there just isn't any harshness to my ears, despite a bell like clarity. My only gripe I have with the sound signature is that it's slightly dry (coming off the velvety smooth, liquid, and full bodied LCD2), and mids while blended in perfectly well with the treble and bass, doesn't sound 'forward' so it doesn't bring immediate attention to itself. It's not the fullest sounding headphone either. More neutral than natural/organic, which is the planar magnetic's strength over electrostatics, from what I've read. Still, the 407 is not sterile or too analytical, keeping a great amount of musicality and enjoyment to it's sound.

On to the different aspects of sound.

Bass:

I expected the bass to be weak and understated. While the sub bass is noticeably lacking in comparison to the LCD2, mid bass is tight, punchy and clearly present. I can listen to EDM or Hip Hop and jam with the 407. Not 'bassy' by any means, but the bass is nicely presented. It has more body and impact than the Q701, but not as much as the K702 Anniversary. I'd say it's basically neutral. However, if the source is bassy, these will surely please anyone not a pure basshead. It can be quite fun.

Mids:

The mids are presented very, VERY cleanly, though they aren't forward or recessed. They are blended in with the bass and treble, not bringing a lot of attention to itself. If anything, it's not romanticized in any way. It's there, it's clean, and well balanced. Again, neutral. Does this mean that it's safe? Yes. Boring? Not at all. It sounds faithful to the source. Unlike something like the Sennheiser PC360 headset which is also well balanced, but lacking in energy. Energy is definitely not one thing the 407 is lacking.

Treble:

The treble to me is the biggest strength in the 407. It's extremely clean sounding, yet completely grain free to my ears and no harshness. Even on sibilant tracks, I didn't feel any fatigue.This may sound like hyperbole, but this is definitely the best treble I've heard on any headphone. Sparkle and smoothness bundled in one, which isn't typically found on traditional headphones. No ringing, no harshness, no fatigue. You basically have to hear it for yourself to understand what I'm talking about.

Soundstage:

My first taste of electrostatic soundstage. It's quite open and with plenty of space between sound cues, but it's a bit two dimensional and linear in comparison to the better dynamics and planar magnetics. So it has a very good soundstage size, but not the best depth. However, it still translates very well into gaming.

Positioning:

The SR-407 performs very well for gaming in Dolby Headphone. The soundstage is a pretty decent size. Paired with the amazing clarity and slight dryness of the sound overall, sound cues come out very, very clearly. Soundstage depth isn't the best, but DH helps it out enough to make positional cues pretty strong.

Clarity:

The 407 is easily one of the clearest headphones I have heard, if not the absolute clearest. Bass is quick, very textured, and tight. The mids are very well balanced and clean, though not forward in the same way the LCD2 and HD650's mids are. Treble, as mentioned earlier is the cleanest, most refined treble I've heard on any headphone to date. Smooth and sparkly at the same time, with zero grain, and no perceivable ringing to my ears. While other headphones like the K701 are emphasized for clarity, they can't compare to the overall refinement and effortlessness of the 407.

Amping:

As stated, these demand an electrostatic amplifier. In terms of that, the SRM-252S is the cheapest 'desktop' 'stat amp in production, and to my ears drives the 407 just fine. I don't feel a lack of anything.

Value:

Value is purely subjective, but I personally feel that for around $575 you get a headphone that stands toe to toe with the LCD2 (and exceeds it in certain areas like neutrality, and clarity). You do need to spend money on an electrostatic amp, the SRM-252S being nearly $500 itself. Considering the 407 is basically the same in sound as the more expensive SR-507 (with different pads and materials), which I've read as being on par with the HE-6 and HD800 (if not better) to certain people, this may be the best entry point into high-end audio for a price not in the realm of impossible.

Final Impressions:

Call me an absolute believer of electrostatic headphones. So much refinement, clarity, and technical superiority over dynamics and arguably even planar magnetics. The Stax SR-407 makes a very compelling case for itself as the perfect starting point into electrostatic headphones (and possibly end). It's not perfect, with a slight dryness to the sound, wonky design, mediocre build quality, and okay comfort, but it's sound quality more than makes up for these shortcomings. For gaming, it's one of the better all-rounders on the guide, without question.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 7.75/10 (Very Good)



Though it's not as immersive as the K702 Anniversary or the more bass-oriented headphones on the guide, the 407 has it's own special sound that is fun in it's own way. Bass is very good for a neutral headphone, lagging a little behind the K702 Anniversary, but having more energy and presence than the Q701, and having a nice, fun amount of bass when it's called for.





Spoiler: Competitive: 8.5/10 (Excellent)



Though the soundstage depth isn't the best, the clarity and virtual space is so clean, it makes for a very solid and competitive gaming headphone.





Spoiler: Comfort: 6.5/10 (Decent)



It's not the most comfortable headphone, but not atrocious by any means. No pressure on top of the head is a large plus.



----------
----------

Ultrasone Pro 2900

Sells for $400+.


Spoiler: Review



Surprise Review!

I can't thank @calpis enough for selflessly sending me his pair of Pro 2900 to review and compare. So all of you Pro 2900 owners, or those who were curious about them, thank calpis! I owe it to him to be a little more thorough in my impressions.

Okay, I've spent the last few days abusing my ears with almost nothing but Pro 2900 audio, so if anything, I can say I'm quite acquainted with them, and they're very fresh on my mind. I was able to test them with a variety of games, including Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops, which are my go-to games for positional audio. Let me start with the build. Man, these are built like absolute tanks. Like seriously, it's plastic, but it's the strongest plastic I have ever felt on a headphone. The only other headphone that felt like an absolute tank was the M50, and these have those beat in just how ridiculously well built they are. You'd have to be a moron to break these.

Now for the sound. Let me break down the specific aspects of it's sound.

Sound:

The Pro 2900 is bright. The Q701 sounds like a warm monster next to them. They are VERY aggressive sounding headphone. The PRAT factor is incredibly high here. They are super quick, with tons of bite. This is NOT a headphone to relax and chill to. This is a headphone to jam out to. They are also very revealing, and dry sounding. The sound doesn't have the rich body of the Q701 or the D7000. The Pro 2900 is weird in that while it's notably a v-shaped sounding headphone, it is quite analytical. The speed of the bass is so quick and unobtrusive, the recessed mids come out highly detailed (but quite distant). The emphasized treble just bring a very clear sound. If I could compare the Pro 2900 to anything, it'd be the DT880 and HE-4. The DT880 and HE-4 however had a warmer tone, richer body, and slower, more present bass making them more fun, personally.

Bass:

These are supposed to have the same drivers as the mid bass monster known as the Pro 900, right? Well, they didn't sound like that to me. They initially started out somewhat bass light. The Q701 had more bass presence. HOWEVER, I dunno when it happened, but that changed. The bass on these? AMAZING quality. Literally the most articulated bass I have ever heard. I'm not talking quantity. I'm talking about how incredibly textured and quick the bass is. Something about how the bass notes hit that just blew me the hell away. You know how some headphones tend to have a one note type of bass that doesn't exactly sound realistic? Well, the Pro 2900 just presents bass in so many layers, I can't help but feel in awe. That being said, it's not particularly emphasized or strong, but they are definitely more present than the Q701. I'd put them on a DT880 level of bass presence. I like a bit more bass emphasis from fun cans like the DT990, HE-4, and D7000, but these are pretty on par with the DT880s in terms of quantity. Quality definitely surpasses the DT880 (which is slower) which was probably the second bass in bass quality for me. Seriously though, give them a very bass emphasized song, and you will be absolutely blown away by that masterful quality. Just don't expect them to immediately please you if you like some form of emphasized bass. The bass is there when a song absolutely calls for it, so I'd say it's the most natural aspect of the Pro 2900's sound. With the right songs, the bass is simply breathtakingly beautiful.

Mids:

This is their DEFINITE weak point. It's noticeably recessed compared to the treble. It falls shortly behind the bass, and quite a bit compared to the treble. Male vocals sound a little unnatural, but female vocals (due to mids going up to the treble) sounded quite unnatural. The Pro 2900 will not be one for female vocals, especially those who tend to bring out sibilance. They will murder your ears with the Pro 2900. On certain songs like 'Kaskade ft. Skylar Grey - Room For Happiness (Fire)', Skylar's voice was very metallic and unnatural sounding. When put next to the Q701... the recessed mids were quite obvious.

Treble:

The showrunner. The treble is prominent. I can't compare directly with the DT990, but it's up there. It has no reservations about them being treble heavy. I'm guaranteeing this would be the deal breaker for a lot of people. That being said, while the treble while is prominent, it wasn't grainy. It was a very high quality treble. The DT880 and DT990's treble were grainier. The treble can be quite fatiguing, so take note if you like smoother treble.

Soundstage:

I won't mention soundstage for music as I'm not too focused on it when I'm not gaming in virtual surround. For gaming, I felt the Pro 2900's soundstage wasn't exactly 'open'. It did spread out pretty far to the extreme left and right, but depth wasn't amazing. It felt like a cross between a closed headphone, and an open one. Considering the Pro 2900's are open, I was left a little disappointed in their soundstage. It wasn't airy like an open can. Felt like a closed can with a big soundstage.

Positioning:

Okay, this is where they are indeed quite excellent. They are great at directionality. No complaints. Not the very best, but they won't bring any issues for gamers using Dolby Headphone. A solid performer, can't say anything negative here. GREAT. I had a 40-0 game on MW2 and a 32-0 game on Black Ops with these, so they are quite capable, I'd say.

Clarity:

As stated before, they are actually revealing and analytical despite their v shaped sound. For GAMING, think of the Pro 2900 as a less bassy DT990 in terms of clarity.

Comfort:

Ah yes, I was skeptical about them, because I've heard several complaints about them, especially the padding on the headband. Perhaps I was desensitized by wearing the K701 and Q701 for so long, but the Pro 2900's padding was quite literally the same as the PC360's headband padding which are non-issues whatsoever. The ear pads feel very similar to the Q701s. Lovely velour that is neither too soft, nor too firm. They were just fine, and cause no discomfort for me. As for clamp, yes, these have a mild clamp, so those who don't like clamp may be irked by it. I actually prefer it, because they stay in place. It's better than any of the Sennheisers I've used in this regard. The headband extension is great, and sturdy. Big heads shouldn't have a problem with the size.

Value:

My biggest issue with the Pro 2900 is the price. It costs as much as the HE-4, and I honestly feel it competes more with the DT880/Q701 price range. The HE-4 is superior to me as a whole. The good thing about the Pro 2900 is that it easy fairly easy to drive and sounds great off the Mixamp. The HE-4 is most certainly the absolute opposite. The Pro 2900 sounds mid-fi to me, and not a bridge between mid-fi and hi-fi that the price seems to suggest. If these were price around $250-300, it'd be some serious competition to the popular Beyers and AKGs. As it stands, it's not good enough to warrant purchase over the Beyers, though if you happen to own them, they won't let you down.

Due to them being great for both fun and competitive gaming, those looking for all-rounders that just do all forms of gaming well, the Pro 2900 shouldn't be overlooked if you feel the price is justifiable. Better positioning than the DT880, and more analytical, while still retaining a healthy dose of fun.

Again, many, MANY thanks to calpis for sending them to me. You have my deepest gratitude.

Final Scores...





Spoiler: Fun: 8 (Great)



The Mixamp pairs up quite well with the Pro 2900, and the bass is satisfying, but not overly powerful. When the bass hits hard, that quality of the Pro 2900's bass really shines.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7.5 (Very Good)



Directionality is very good. Soundstage could be bigger, but it's good overall. Pro 2900 owners shouldn't have any issues dominating at least when it comes to using these as their main headphone.



----------
----------

Ultrasone Pro 900

Sells for $300-$330.


Spoiler: Review



So I gotta say, the Pro 900 is lethal with Dolby Headphone. They are stupid awesome for gaming.

The DT990 is it's closest sounding alternative, but you definitely trade off that open soundstage for a closed one, so if there are any DT990 fans looking for a closed headphone that bears some resemblance, but with lesser treble, and more focused/stronger bass, the Pro 900 is it.

Fun:

You will be absorbed into your games with the Pro 900, make no mistake. The ambience won't come close to the D7000's, but it's damn good on it's own merits. There's something about the pulse the Pro 900s emit that really keep you excited every single minute you use them for gaming. The bass is strong as all hell, but very, VERY tight, making for an incredibly fun can that doesn't smother detail with it's bass. I'd say it does gaming bass better than the DT990, for sure. Not to knock the DT990, since it's open AND has that amazing bass. The Pro 900 is closed, which should make it's bass an obviously logical strength.

Competitive:

I know that the Pro 2900 is less bassy, making it for more focus on detail, but the Pro 900's bass really, REALLY doesn't get in the way. Directionality was great (just as it was on the Pro 2900). Soundstage was also similar, despite it's closed vs open design. The Pro 2900 didn't ever sound open in any case. The recessed mids didn't truly rear it's ugly head when I was gaming, so I'll consider them recessed but clean sounding, not making them much of an issue. The Pro 900 is stronger in the fun category than competitive, but it is by no means weak for competitive gaming. You can and will maintain focus even with the addition of that lovely bass. I'd say even with the tip towards bass, the Pro 900's bass keeps you ever so slightly more focused than the DT990's bass, though I'd say the DT990 is better overall for competitive use due to it's expansive soundstage/open sound that keeps other details more spread apart and easier to pick up.

Comfort:

Personally, I would say they are an 8 for me, and I can wear them all day long, but I know realistically, you guys won't find it as comfortable due to it's clamp grip, and whatnot. I honestly don't see why people have issues with the Pro 900's top padding. It's infinitely better than the Q701's padding, which was not really an issue after some time. The Pro 900's top padding is a lot like the Sennheiser PC360's. Can't see how that can bother anyone.

Isolation:

I know I haven't done this with any other headphone, but that's usually because I prefer open headphones, which don't isolate well at all. Because the Pro 900 IS closed, I feel it necessary to mention how well it does. I feel that it keeps outside noises out well enough (certainly leaps and bounds better than the D7000), and does incredibly well keeping sound from leaking out, even with it's velour pads.

Value:

Overall, the Pro 900 truly houses a resemblance to it's sibling, the Pro 2900, even down it it's soundstage. You trade off the Pro 2900's EXTREMELY articulated bass, for a more prominent, less articulate, but still very high quality bass. I can literally paste the review of the Pro 2900, and change the bass section, and voila. I gotta say, I prefer the treble on the Pro 900 to than the Pro 2900 by a little bit. They are both artificial sounding as a whole, but the Pro 2900's treble sounded more metallic to me.

I may not have been as happy with the Pro 900 for music initially, but considering how little I've been using headphones when gaming, I think it's a big win for the Pro 900 when I say that they MADE me wanna use them all day for gaming. They truly pulled it off in the bottom of the 9th, with 2 outs, man on 2nd and third, down by one, with a bass hit to win the game.

If you have just over $300 to spend on a headphone for gaming that you want to use for fun and some competitive gaming, the Pro 900 is a rock solid choice. It does favor fun more than competitive, but it won't let you down either way, with it's great positioning, unobtrusive bass, and clean sound.

I also want to add that if you were on the fence between the Pro 900 vs the Pro 2900, I personally recommend the Pro 900. The Pro 2900 doesn't have an airy sound, losing the main reason why I believe anyone would go for an open headphone. The mids and treble are similar, making the only real differing aspect being the bass. Considering that the Pro 900 is a ton of fun without sounding messy, it will impress you more than the Pro 2900. The Pro 2900 is more balanced overall, but even calling it balanced is a far stretch, due to mid recession, and more metallic treble. The Pro 900 may also have similar recessed mids, but that trades off for more bass, whereas the Pro 2900 doesn't really give you anything in return for those recessed mids. The Pro 2900 has remarkable texture and refinement in the bass, but is lacking in abundant quantity to make that bass really stand out. The Pro 2900 is also considerably more expensive than the Pro 900 (if you shop well), making it just tough choice in it's price bracket (which is full of amazing headphones, like the HE400, HE-4, D5000, etc).

Final scores:


Fun: 8.75 (Excellent)
Competitive: 7.5 (Very Good)
Comfort: 7.5 (Very Good)
Overall: 7.75 (Very Good)



----------
----------


GUIDE CONTINUES ON 3RD POST BELOW​


----------



## canoners

Awesome post mate 
   
  Do you suggest using the Dolby Headphone option in Asus Xonar DX's Audio Center or purchasing a separate Dolby decoder like the Mixamp and Earforce?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 18, 2022)

*INDEX*
Use this for quick access to specific products. Click on the entries with links to go to their full review page.

*Virtual Surround Devices and Software*
Astro Mixamp Pro (2013 Edition)
Astro Mixamp Pro (2011 Edition)
Astro Mixamp 5.8
Beyerdynamic Headzone (Base only)
Creative Sound BlasterX G6
Creative Sound Blaster GC7
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB
Creative X7
Redscape Audio Software And Headtracker
Sennheiser GSX 1000 Gaming Audio Amplifier
Tritton AX 720
Turtle Beach DSS (old version)
Victor SU-DH1

*External Amps and DACs*
Fiio E9K (aka E09K)
Fiio E12
iFi GO Blu
Objective O2
Schiit Gaming Dac/Amps 'Hel' and 'Fulla 3'
Schiit Fulla 4
Schiit Hel 2
Schiit Magni
Schiit Vali 2+


*External Microphones*
AntLion ModMic
Labtec LVA7330
Mini Clip-on Microphones (Neweer, HDE, DX models)
V-moda Boom Pro

*Pad Swapping*
Dekoni Audio Pads





*Virtual Surround Devices (devices only, console use)*
(many thanks to forum member ruuku for typing most of this up for the guide)​
Astro Mixamp Pro (2013 Edition)




Dolby Headphone Device
Sells for $129.99


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Presets for customized sound, with 4 modes: Pro (boosted details, less bass), Core (relatively flat/balanced), Media (boosted mids and subtle bass boost), Sports (tuned for a more open virtual space, stadium-like)
Core preset is rich and warm, which is quite beneficial to most headphones. Not quite ruler flat, but not detrimental to sound quality.
Pro Mode lessens the bass considerably, to focus on details. This preset will be quite beneficial for boomy/muddy headphones.

Cons:

Wired
Hissy. About as much as the 5.8. It's not an issue, but the older Mixamp Pro had considerably less hiss.
Does not decode DTS, so no virtual surround for DTS signals (which sadly, most Blu-Ray movies use).

*Impressions:*

I found the Mixamp Pro 2013 to be the best Mixamp in terms of functionality, though the removal of the digital coaxial/RCA inputs means less devices to hook up to it at once (the digital coaxial input on the older devices could be used in conjuction with a digital coaxial to optical converter to allow two game consoles at once).

I sincerely hope in the future Astro manages to add multiple optical inputs, as most gamers will have more than one console/device. That and HDMI input, and DTS decoding (like the SU-DH1). Hopefully, LPCM decoding will be added, as the Wii U uses LPCM. Wii U gamers are out of in terms of virtual surround because of the lack of LPCM decoding on current virtual surround devices.

The Pro, Core, and Media presets are all very functional and worth using.

Core: Core is basically flat/balanced, but not perfectly flat. From what I'm personally hearing, it seems to have ever so slightly more bass/warmth than neutral. Easy to tell when comparing to the Mixamp 5.8 which had no coloration when bass boost was off. Still, it's the best preset overall, and I personally like the subtle coloration with every headphone I've used so far.

Pro: Forum member Chicolom describes as "AD700 mode", which sucks out the bass to focus entirely on mid and treble detail. This essentially makes the A40 sound like the old A40. This may be quite beneficial to muddy/undetailed headphones.

Media: Enhances mids with a very subtle bass boost, which I really enjoyed for movies, as movies tend to suck out the mids a bit. I recommend using preset for mid deficient headphones.

Sports: I didn't personally like this one, as it sounds like the virtual space was made bigger, and sounds more processed and artificial than the other presets.

Despite the added hiss compared to the old Mixamp Pro, the 2013 edition is worthwhile unless you absolutely want the least amount of hiss, which then you'll wanna seek out the older 2011 or the even older 2010 edition.

Extra Notes:


			
				ruuku said:
			
		

> Added EQ Fuction/Button on face of Mixamp
> "Daisy Chaining" does not require red 3.5mm male to male "bar" adapter
> "Live streaming integrates game sound with incoming/outgoing voice chat"
> TOSlink changed to mini-optical (3.5mm optical), Removed RCA/COAX Inputs, additional 3.5mm "STREAM" port






----------
----------

Astro Mixamp Pro




Dolby Headphone Device


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Lowest noise of listed DH Decoders
Ability to "Mix" voice back into headphone audio
By far the most amount of inputs (RCA, Optical, Coaxial, USB (for PC, however it can only do stereo through USB, no DH).
Cons:

Wired (Not as streamlined as AX720)
Expensive, with horrendous shippping charges from Astrogaming.
Does not decode DTS, so no virtual surround for DTS signals (which sadly, most Blu-Ray movies use).
Extra Notes:


			
				ruuku said:
			
		

> 5.1 Wired Mixamp
> Input: TOS Link, COAX, R/L RCA, 3.5mm Input (MP3/AUX), USB (power only)
> OUT: 3.5mm (PC)
> 
> ...






----------
----------

Astro Mixamp 5.8




Dolby Headphone Device


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Wireless
Uses 5.8Ghz for less interference with wireless devices (other older wireless solutions use a more common 2.4Ghz frequency)
Sound quality is on par with the Mixamp Pro, despite having slight background noise, where the Pro has little to none
Cons:

Can only be purchased in a bundle with the A30 or A40 headsets
Only one input (optical)
Slight noise though lower than AX720 and DSS solutions
Does not decode DTS natively.
Extra Notes:


			
				ruuku said:
			
		

> 5.8 Wireless Mixamp (TX)
> 
> Wireless, 5.8Ghz band used to avoid interference with wireless devices, devices that emit signal noise (microwaves ect.)
> Added a "Bass Expander" function
> ...






----------
----------

Beyerdynamic Headzone (Base only)




Virtual Surround Device
Sells for $1099.


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Very good virtual surround emulation. Similar to Dolby Headphone, with a dead silent background.
Can decode both Dolby and DTS signals, so most content is compatible
Options to customize the sound. For example: changing the size of the virtual room, in effect, adding soundstage size and depth
Cons:

Prohibitively expensive, and overpriced (IMHO)
Very high (100ohm) output impedance, so most typical audiophile headphone's tonal balance may be affected negatively (For example, a low ohm headphone's bass may be boomier and less controlled, and treble can become grating and harsh, etc.)
Virtual surround is great, but ultimately not too different from Dolby Headphone, which comes in devices costing much, much less
Personally can't justify spending so much for this device (At around half the price, I'd recommend it, but not for it's current street price)




----------
----------

*Creative Sound BlasterX G6*






$150 (price checked Sep 2018)
Where to buy: *Creative, Amazon, Newegg*
Latest driver update: 10-19-2018. Click Here. (Untested as of this review)



Spoiler:  Creative G6 Review



_Note: As with the X7, Creative will likely update the G6 throughout the months, fixing and improving its feature set where any issues encountered at the point of this review may well be eliminated. I will be updating this review whenever new fixes or tweaks are noteworthy and worth mentioning. The review will be written mostly as if all is working as it is intended. At the moment, there are problems which I will address in the 'Issues/Bugs' section of the review. This review will also be structured a little differently due to the sheer amount of features and settings I need to discuss._

Creativelabs Sound BlasterX G6. A gaming-centric dac/amp, that supports up to 32bit/384khz quality audio.

Before I begin, I'd like to give an obscene amount of thank yous to Creative for giving me the opportunity to test the G6 as well as the Creative Trio. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have had this chance. @Evshrug also receives many thanks for being the original point of contact between Creative and I. Ok, with that out of the way, on to the review. (the review was posted first here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...ative-g6-added.534479/page-2755#post-14525480. In case you wanted to find the point of its discussion. (Can't shorten links for some reason)

Creative has finally given us something we have been begging to have for years: A simple device that can output virtual surround to external dacs and/or amplifiers. Granted, this is not even close to its main use case, but it's finally here. Rather, it's here again, as Creative already gave us that in the form of the X7 a few years ago in form of an update for the X7, after many months of begging from the audiophile community. The X7 however is a bigger, more expensive, and more fully realized product that doesn't make too much sense to purchase just for that specific use. The G6 is more or less like a shrunk down version of the X7. More affordable, portable friendly, and without any real trade-offs aside from not being able to power speakers, and a little less feature packed. Is it worth your dime? I definitely think it may be, and in the future, I definitely think it will be. Let's see why.



*Build*​
The G6 looks identical to the G5, but with more functionality and versatility. No larger than a standard men's wallet, if a little thicker, the G6 can be easily transported and easy to use for things such as laptops. It's encased in a really nice dark metallic finish with a brushed metal accent on top where the Sound BlasterX branding (which has a customizable RGB led on the 'X') is placed. The entire bottom side is covered in an anti-slip rubber material.

On the front of the unit is the volume knob with a white led ring surrounding it that brightens as you raise the volume. If you push in the volume knob and hold it for a few moments, the led ring will light up red, letting you know that it has changed to sidetone (mic) volume control. To the left of the volume knob is the 3.5mm headphone jack, while the 3.5mm microphone input is on the right.

On the back of the unit is the inputs and outputs. The far right is the micro USB input for power/PS4/PC dac capabilities. I really do hope that whatever comes next from Creative as a successor to this unit, will have USB-C input. Let's be forward thinking in this regard, and put micro usb to rest once and for all. But that's a general pet peeve against anything that still uses micro usb. I, for some reason, am prone to destroy micro usb ports.

The leftmost input is the line/optical in, which you're likely to use for consoles to decode Dolby Digital for SBX virtual surround, and to the right of it is the line/optical out, which in my opinion is the most interesting aspect of the G6. Through the G6 software, you're able to set the G6 to output SBX headphone surround through the line/optical out, so you can gain the benefits of SBX with external dacs and amplifiers. Many of us here have our own (higher end) gear and will want the G6 simply to send SBX to our gear. Previously, our only solution for this was Creative's own X7, though it came with a steep price, and its own really good dac and amp, so it felt a bit redundant and wasteful. Now, while the G6 has a very clean sounding dac and respectable (and high volume output) amplifier, the affordability, and ability to use with external gear really is what makes it a must have in my opinion. I believe it makes gear like the Astrogaming Mixamp obsolete, at least for the more serious audiophile. Creative, THANK YOU, for this.

Moving on to the sides of the unit, the left side is empty on any features. It simply has a black accent and some product information. Nothing worthy of note here. The right side is far more interesting.

To the left of the unit, there is the Scout Mode button which also functions as a 'Direct Mode' toggle when pressed down for a few seconds (the button will blink continuously while in this mode). This bypasses all forms of processing for the purest stereo signal.

To the right of the Scout Mode button is the SBX button which is pretty self explanatory. Pressing this will activate SBX processing.

To the right of the SBX button is gain switch/slider. Low gain on the left, high gain on the right. The G6 has a very generous volume output, and I don't see almost any headphone having a problem being driven loudly. Loud does not equate to being perfectly driven, but at the very least it's far superior to the GSX1000's meager volume output which has a tendency to sound a bit low with harder to drive headphones. As an example, I would have to max out the volume on the GSX1000 when using my HiFiMAN HE-400 to have a moderate volume. The G6 has PLENTY of volume to spare and would kill my ears long before maxing out the volume.

Finally, to the right of the right side of the unit is some indicators below 'Dolby Audio'. The three small indicators let you know what mode you're currently using. When the left indicator is lit up, you're on sidetone (mic) volume control mode. The center lets you know if the G6 is receiving a Dolby Digital signal. The right lets you know if you're in headphone volume control mode. Sidetone and volume indicators will blink if either one is muted/at their lowest volume.

That's it as far as what's on the physical part of the G6.

The G6, is noticeably lighter than Sennheiser's GSX1000, though I don't think weight is an issue with either unit. It feels very sturdy and well made. Despite its much lower cost compared to the GSX1000, it looks decidedly higher end, and of higher quality externally. Of course, the GSX1000 has all its functions directly on the unit making it a bit easier to use, but aesthetically, the G6 is a much more attractive unit to my eyes.

During use, the G6 runs quite warm, but I expect it's well within internal tolerances. It's no Schiit Lyr, at least. That thing could fry an egg. The G6 makes a pretty comfy hand warmer.



*Accessories*​
The G6 comes with a standard micro usb cable to type A, and an optical cable with a mini plug on on end that goes directly into the optical input on the G6 itself. Neither cable is very long, and in my case, both are way too short to get any real use out of them. My PC and consoles are connected to a 65" TV, and thus I need pretty lengthy cables to reach where I sit. Thankfully I have my own cables, but keep that in mind. You may need to have your own lengthy cables if you plan on having the G6 near you and aren't using it in a standard PC setup where you're sitting at a desk.

That's it as far as what comes in the box, other than warranty, setup guide and other reading material. Not that it really needs anything else.



*Software*​
As previously mentioned, the G6 needs the PC software to change some pretty important settings, so I do hope the prospective buyer has a computer on hand to tweak these settings. Fortunately, once you have everything set up in the software to your liking, there shouldn't really be a need to go back often, as the main functions can just be changed on the unit itself. Let me break down the actual software. There is a lot, as you'll undoubtedly notice. Starting with the far left, there is a long vertical column with a few main options:


*Dashboard:*​
This is where you will find a few important subsections:

*BlasterX Experience* - a Library of custom presets like Gaming, Music, DOTA 2, Overwatch, and many more. Each preset has specific settings, like a different EQ preset, surround mode, and other values. Whichever preset you choose will have a large image to the right of this section, showing your selection.

To the right of this, is a condensed, cut down version of the other main sections as noted below:



*Sound:*​
This is where you will find the following sub-sections:


*Equalizer*

Self explanatory. You can adjust the sound via various EQ presets, or even create your own presets and save them/add them to the list. As I like my headphones/speakers in their intended state, I don't use Equalizers. However, if you're used to tweaking a sound to your preference, there's enough customizability here to reach a sound you'd be happy with. Had it been a simple few presets, I probably would have tested them and given a few impressions on what they do, but there is simply way too many here. I'll leave it to those who actually use EQ settings to experiment.


*Acoustic Engine*

This is where you'll find the most useful settings the G6 software has to offer. Here you have:


*Surround* - This is the SBX surround feature. Unlike the X7 where it was a slider with great granularity, the Surround options here are limited to Normal (which is basically SBX surround being turned off), Wide, and Ultra Wide. As SBX doesn't really have any reverb, I personally recommend Ultra Wide, so that there is discernible distance in the soundstage in which sound cues have space between you and the edge of the the soundstage. I feel wide has too small a soundstage and it makes it harder to discern sound cues that are behind you. I have been a fan of SBX surround for many years now. Having been used to the really heavily processed sounding Dolby Headphone, SBX was an incredible improvement and quite literally a game changer. There's really not much Creative can improve on with SBX, and I'm incredibly content with its inclusion here. Even with the advent of virtual surround processors like Sennheiser's GSX, and Dolby Atmos, I still believe SBX stand at the top in terms of cleanest audio signal relative to how well the surround processing performs. It's not my favorite in terms of raw surround emulation, but we're talking 99% of the way there. It is undoubtedly the best to my ears in terms of not affecting sound quality in negative ways compared to the others.

_update: I tested the most recent update (tested on 4-9-2019), and I'm happy to say that the surround setting now goes from 0-100, instead of just 3 settings. This is a fantastic decision from Creative, as it allows you to further dial how much or how little you want of the surround effect. I personally stick to 100, but that's just me._


*Crystalizer* - Think of this as Creative's own special voodoo magic that tries to decompress audio and turn it into higher quality. This setting is granular and can be set to anywhere between 0-100. I tried to figure out which specific ranges of frequency this affects, but it seems to affect the entire spectrum from small to very noticeable bumps across many ranges. I couldn't find any volume matching point between on and off, and thus I don't feel comfortable in guessing what it exactly affects, as the entire spectrum was louder compared to having this option off. I'm not someone who likes to alter the raw sound from my speakers or headphones, and as such, I leave settings like this off, personally. This may be beneficial for lower quality headphones/speakers that lack detail and sound muffled, low grade.


*Bass* - This can also be adjusted from anywhere between 0-100. The higher, the louder the bass. From my testing with Sinegen, it affects and raises the volume from the very bottom of 15hz (the lowest point on Sinegen) all the way to about 90hz, in which it begins to roll off below non-EQ volume, and normalizes/balances out at around 160hz in which it no longer affects the rest of the frequency range. Again, not something I would personally use, but if you're not comfortable with tweaking the equalizer itself, this may be an easier way to get more bass from your bass deficient headphones, or if you're just an outright basshead.


*Smart Vol(ume)* - This (per Creative): _"Intelligently minimizes abrupt volume changes automatically"_. You can choose between Off, Auto, and Night. While I don't use this, I can see a reason to use it for things like cable television, where things like commercials may be much louder than whatever you're viewing.


*Dialog+* - You can choose between Off, Normal, Balanced, and Dialog Focus. I found very subtle changes between Off, Normal, and Balanced, with Dialog Focus really making a noticeable difference in volume compared to Off, especially in the bass and lower midrange.


*Scout Mode *- The next sub-section under the Sound section after Acoustic Engine is Scout Mode. In Creative's own words (as stated in the software), Scout Mode is _"Designed to help you hear what you see such as footsteps, speech, and weaponry handling acoustic characteristics without the use of explicit frequency shaping..."_

You can toggle it Off/On, and there is a Hot Key function and off/on toggle for the hot key. As far as Scout Mode itself, it seems to emphasize a broad range between 3-7khz to my ears. The details are turned up considerably. Despite what the software says, I do feel it is like a specialized EQ preset.

*Dolby* - Next to Scout Mode is Dolby, which confused me at first as I had initially thought the SBX surround processing would be placed here. This sub-section is essentially Dolby's dynamic range compression. It goes from Full, to Normal, to Night. Per the software, wide volume swings between loud and quiet can be customized to match your listening preferences.

*Filters* - The last sub-section under 'Sound' is 'Filters'. You get choices between: Fast Roll Off - Minimum Phase, Slow Roll Off Minimum Phase, Fast Roll Off - Linear Phase, and Slow Roll Off - Linear Phase. I used to have Audio-GD gear with similar options, and like back then, I had no idea what they truly did, and how to use them, so I left it in their original state. This is outside the scope of my understanding, and even when I read up on it, I still didn't quite grasp the intention and resulting effect.



*Voice:*​
This is where the section 'Voice Morph' lies. As it's likely evident to everyone by now, this allows you to alter your voice in real time with 18 different preset 'voices'. On the right you can turn on the option to listen to your morphed voice.



*Lighting:*​
This section allows you to customize the led RGB color of the X in BlasterX on the top of the G6 unit itself. Your options are as follows:

*Solo* - This is a solid color of your choosing. I chose a dim red, as red is the easiest on the eyes in terms of possible strain/fatigue, and the least likely to annoy in a dark room.

*Pulsate* - This option is a breathing effect. You can choose the color as well as how fast the color 'breathes'.

*Music Reactiv*e - The color with pulsate based on music. The effect can range from subtle to obvious.

*Cycle* - The color cycles in a rainbow-esque pattern. You can set the speed from slow to ridiculously fast.

As far as how to change the color, you have a column with all manner of color gradients, as well the intensity of the color, opacity, and even numerical and hexadecimal notation of said colors. In short, if you can think of a color, it's capable on the G6. I personally went with a dim red, as it's proven to cause the least amount of eye strain, and doesn't brighten a dark room like other colors. I'm not about that RGB life.



*Sign In:*​
Here you can register and sign in. Once signed in, The Info sub-section will display your First and Last Name, Birth Month, and Year. You can edit your profile, change your password, and sign out. The Products sub-section shows the product (Sound BlasterX G6) and you can register the product with Creative here. Nothing terribly exciting here.



*Setup:*​
Placed far down in the main options column, Setup has some very important settings.



*Headphones:*​
Here you can change the Output Mode, Configuration, and Apply Headphone Virtualization.


*Output Mode -*changes between Audio Effects and Direct. Audio Effects is how you can use any processing options in the software. Direct mode is the purest, unprocessed stereo signal. I use both daily and it depends on whether I'm playing games, listening to music, or listening to other forms of media.

*Configuration *- Here you can set the number of speakers. Stereo (the only way to get the advertised 32bit/384khz), 5.1 and 7.1 (which are the only ways to get proper SBX headphone surround to work). Both these will cap out at 32bit/96khz, and if you change back to stereo, it will be at 96khz, until you change the sampling rate back to 384khz in Windows sound panel. Note again that 384khz does not work unless Output Mode is set to Stereo. My recommendation here is to set to 32bit/96khz, and set speakers to 7.1. You'll have the best form of SBX surround, and if you want really clean stereo audio, you can just toggle direct mode either in the software or holding down the Scout Mode button on the G6 itself for a few seconds. 32bit/96khz sounds perfectly fine to me, and I don't personally see a discernible improvement/use for 384khz.

*Apply Headphone Virtualization To* - Here you can change between sending SBX headphone surround to Headphones or Line and Optical Out (in case you have an external dac or amplifier that you wish to use instead of the G6's internal dac/amp but wish to retain SBX headphone surround.) This, to my head-fi community may be the big draw, as you can finally get SBX surround and send it directly to another DAC or amplifier, at half the cost of the only other device that did this before, the X7.



*Speakers:*​
Here you can change the Output Mode, Configuration, and Speaker Type

*Output Mode* - Audio Effects is how you can use any processing options in the software. Direct Mode is the untouched, unprocessed signal for purest sound. SPDIF-Out Direct allows up to 24/96 bit to bit streaming without processing to the optical output signal for your external devices with an optical input.

*Configuration* - Stereo, 5.1, 7.1. Pretty self explanatory.

*Select Speaker Type* - You can select from Desktop, Bookshelf, Tower, and Custom Speakers (which allows you to set the crossover frequency, the default for custom being 80hz).



*Mixer:*​
Here you can change the various input/output volume levels and volume balance.

Playback, Monitoring of the Line In, External Mic, SPDIF In as well as adjust the Recording volumes of the SPDIF In, External Mic, Line In, and 'What U Hear.



*Settings:*​
Under General, you can change the language for the software, toggle whether you want the software to turn on when Windows starts, check for software updates.

Under Device, you can reset to factory default, and check for firmware updates.

Last but not least, at the very bottom of the software window in a bar displaying your current output, what BlasterX Experience preset you're on, whether Scout Mode is on, whether SBX is on, and whether Direct Mode is on. They're all dark and grayed out if not in use.

Further on the bottom right is a mic icon, Dolby Audio icon, and headphone icon. You can also adjust the volume here directly.



*Ease of Use*​
The G6 appears easy to use at first, but it actually requires quite a little bit of tweaking before you're 100% ready to go. It is wholeheartedly recommended that you first plug the G6 to a PC, update the firmware via Creative's website, download the drivers, and software. It's quite a bit more involved than the GSX1000 in this regard, which is more or less immediately plug and play. There is a bit of setup necessary in the software to change settings not found on the unit itself, which I'll talk about in a later section. I'll just say the software itself is not immediately easy to use, and will take a bit to get used to. Not too long, but it's not child's play at first glance.

The functions on the unit itself are relatively easy and self explanatory to use. The only shortcuts on the unit are the previously mentioned sidetone (mic) volume setting which occurs when pressing down the volume knob for a few seconds, and the other being holding down the Scout Mode button to change to direct mode for purest unprocessed stereo audio. On gaming consoles, it also needs a bit of tweaking on their side. For example, on PS4, you need to connect both usb and optical cables, and make sure the system is outputting Dolby Digital to the optical out, as well as setting the audio going to the usb connection to chat only, since if you do all Audio, you won't get SBX surround. As I mentioned, it takes some setting up before you're ready to go.

Personally, after getting used to the software layout, I didn't find much to complain about. The main areas of the software I normally visit are the Acoustic Engine (for SBX) and Setup (for changing the speakers between stereo to 5.1/7.1, and toggling between Audio Effects and Direct Mode). Considering that I can just use the G6 itself to change these settings other than speaker number, I really find the G6 easy to use in my use case. That being said, I tend to leave all bells and whistles off. Things like Equalizers, Night Modes, Presets, Scout Mode, Bass Controls, and other things of this nature, I always leave off. The only function I use that isn't the raw, purest sound, is surround processing, as I love to play games with virtual surround. Even that gets turned off when I listen to stereo sources, like music. Seeing as I leave basically everything off, I don't have much of a reason to interact with the software itself outside of the initial setup, switching from SBX to Direct mode.

For anyone who likes to tweak all these things regularly, there is quite a lot to sift through in the software. I'm sure with some time it will be easy to use, but it's quite crammed with features to my eyes, where some people may be a little lost at first. Thankfully, the Dashboard section of the software is basically a cut down version of the other main sections, so most of the truly important settings are placed here for extra convenience.



*Amplification*​
The G6 is surprisingly pretty potent for its small size. I don't have the specs to compare, but I can with confidence say it's likely the most powerful gaming amplifier outside of Creative's own X7. It provides ample volume from what I can see, and it makes the GSX1000 seems woefully underpowered in comparison. Now, it's no desktop amp, and I would recommend having a good amplifier on hand for  insensitive or high impedance headphones, but for most general headphones and essentially all headsets, the G6 is definitely potent enough, providing an outstanding amount of volume headroom.



*Microphone*​
I didn't have any issues connecting the mic to the G6. The G6 has a mic input, but the headphone jack also accepts TRRS plugs, so no need to use an adapter to insert into the mic input. The voice morph settings all sounded a bit different from one another, though Brute and Orc were more or less the same, with the Orc setting being slightly deeper. I dunno if it's just me, but the Emo setting sounded quite like my normal voice. What are you implying here, Creative? I kid. The mic monitoring worked as well as one can expect. Simply pressing in the volume wheel on the G6 turned the led red, and I was able to raise the volume where I could hear my own voice clearly.



*Personal Recommendations*​
The G6 will suit a variety of uses, and different individuals. Do you have a somewhat decent amount of headphones with varying levels of sensitivity and uses? The G6 will more than likely do absolutely fine with any of them. I probably wouldn't advise attaching 600ohm headphones directly to it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they would at the very least be driven to loud volumes.

If you just want one decent dac/amp for general use? The G6 has you covered. It has a clean, detailed sound to my ears and functions has a good dac, amp, or both.

Do you just want a device that will send SBX virtual surround to your higher end audiophile gear? The G6 has you covered here as well. The virtual surround can be sent digitally to another dac.

Only have an amplifier? The line out will allow the G6 to function as a dac, and can send virtual surround to your amplifier without double amping (the Astro Mixamp and Sennheiser GSX1000 would have to double amp, which is less ideal, objectively speaking).

Despite a few pet peeves with the software, I believe the G6 is the best gaming dac/amp to come out since the Creative's X7, and an even more attractive option if you already have your own gear.



*Comparisons*​
*Asus Xonar U3:* This is an old, tiny device that is usb and PC use only, so not exactly comparing apples to apples. That being said, it is a much more affordable choice, and can also send virtual surround to dacs or amps for very low cost. Problem being that's older, uses Dolby Headphone (which is inferior to SBX in most regards), has a weak amplifier, and I personally wouldn't use for anything other than a way to send Dolby Headphone to your own gear. The G6 is in every way a superior device, with much more versatility. Unless you're pinching pennies and need a super low cost option, I would skip the U3 for the G6 any day of the week.

*Sennheiser GSX1000: *This is a much more legitimate comparison. I really like the warmer, more analog-esque sound quality of the GSX1000, and I think GSX surround may be the best virtual surround out. Not by much, but I just have a slight preference to how it sounds in terms of positional cues over SBX (though we're talking a very, very slight preference). I also like that the GSX1000 is incredibly easy to use, and there is no software. All its options and settings are on the unit itself via its touch interface. On the downside, the GSX1000 is limited to just PC use through USB, and can't send GSX surround to other dacs or amplifiers, outside of attaching an amplifier to its headphone jack, which is not ideal. This is a hard comparison because I love both devices, but I have to say for most people, I think the G6 is a better option. Not only is it considerably cheaper, but it's far more versatile. I would only recommend the GSX1000 over the G6 if you simply  only plan on using a device for a PC, and don't have harder to drive headphones. Even then, you're spending quite a bit more, for a more limited device.

*Creative X7: *The X7 is the older, bigger, and more fleshed out sibling to the G6, and as such, is the one to go for when you just want one device that does absolutely everything. I prefer its software much, much more than the G6. The X7 has a very potent dac and amplifier, so there really is no need to get anything more. This is the one I would recommend for newcomers that want it all without needing to attach anything else. If you have or plan on using other higher end products with a gaming device, the G6 makes more sense, no question. It's half the cost of the cheapest X7, and considering you'll be using another dac and amp, all of the extra goodies on the X7 are left unused in that situation.

*Astro Mixamp: *This is probably the one a lot of newcomers would probably be interested in. Unfortunately, it has been many years since I've owned any Mixamp, and I can't say what improvements, if any have been made since. All I know is that the older Mixamps (2013 and older), didn't have particularly good internals either in their dacs or amp stages. I would choose a G6 over the Mixamp 99% of the time. I believe the main benefit of choosing a Mixamp over the G6 is the game/voice volume mixing on the fly. Even then, I still would lean heavily towards the G6 due to all its other strengths over the Mixamp, including better virtual surround, cleaner, more powerful amplifier, its line/optical out properties, and more.



*Likes, Dislikes, Issues*​
*Likes:*


SBX Surround
High volume output
Clean sound
Many options
Virtual surround through its line/optical out
Aesthetics
Versatility

*Dislikes:*


Software layout
Software bugs (as of writing this review), like not saving settings consistently/reverting settings
Can't adjust game/chat balance without going into the software


*Issues:

1*. *Not saving settings consistently.*

Apply Headphone Virtualization settings, under the Setup section is not saving the setting correctly. Let me explain. That setting has no reason to revert. So if I set it to line out/optical, I want it to remain on line out/optical from then on. Well, right now, it sometimes reverts to one or the other. I don't know what causes the setting to stick to a particular one, but it's not consistent. So I basically have to check or change that setting EVERY TIME I turn the PC/G6 on. Now, I have done most of my testing on PC, but I can imagine if someone is mainly a console gamer and wants a specific setting only to find that it keeps reverting to the other, and they aren't getting headphone virtualization where they want it, this can be incredibly frustrating.

Say if my PS4 is in the living room, and I notice headphone virtualization isn't being applied to the line out/optical which I would send the signal to my own external dac/amp. I'll have to go back to my bedroom with the G6, turn on the PC, go to the G6 software, change the setting, and then go put the G6 back next to my console setup in the living room. Every single day. And there are even users that don't even have PCs, so their chances to change the settings are even more limited.

I think it's a bigger problem for people using the G6 simply to send headphone virtualization to the line out/optical for their own external gear. It may possibly default to Headphone, and they can't benefit from headphone virtualization for their gear until they go to the settings on PC and change it. This has no reason to auto switch unless it detects a headphone being connected to the G6, and as far as I can tell, this setting does NOT have an auto switch function.

My recommendations here is that hopefully wherever your G6 is setup, it is also attached to a PC, so that you can periodically check if the 'Apply Headphone Virtualization' is set to what you need it to be. In the case of headphones being attached directly to the G6, this setting does not matter, as it will still get proper headphone virtualization, but if you plan on using the G6 just to send SBX surround to your own dac or amplifier, this setting is the most crucial setting of all.

If you're someone who plans on only using the G6 with consoles, and only plan on attaching headphones to the G6 and not to external gear, you won't have any real issues. The G6 will pick up the consoles Dolby Digital signal through the optical cable (assuming you have the console set to that), and all you have to do is turn on the SBX button on the unit. The only inconsistency here may be that you won't know if you're getting Wide or Ultra Wide for the SBX setting. Only the software on a PC lets you know what setting SBX is on, and due to the device not being consistent with these settings, you simply have no way of knowing outside of listening to the unit and knowing the difference between Wide and Ultra Wide.

I have faith Creative will fix this with an update, but be wary that this is a current issue. I will update this review if and when this is fixed.


*2. Software pet peeves.*

The software is a step back from the X7's software which is easy to understand and navigate. It's not rocket science, but I feel the software layout can be cleaned up and simplified a bit.

The Sign In, Setup, Settings are separated from Dashboard, Sound, Voice, Lighting sections. They're close when the window is small, but since you need to maximize to see all options, these three options are on the very bottom for some inexplicable reason.









Just keep them together, Creative. There shouldn't be a need for people to have to go to the bottom for some settings and the top for others, especially if Setup has some important settings like where to send headphone virtualization.

In the Dashboard section, there is the BlasterX Experience. It's a long list of options that I didn't quite understand at first. It wasn't until recently that I realized it was a list of custom presets that change a variety of options. I also think this should be in its own section instead of only in the dashboard where it doesn't have any information as to what it is. There is a brief mention of what preset is chosen in the sound section, but only the name of the preset and nothing else. It's not even selectable here. Maybe I lack common sense here, maybe not.

Under the Sound section, the first thing you see is the Equalizer screen. Well, I don't ever use Equalizer, so for me, it's just one big empty space. In my opinion, this section should have started with the Acoustic Engine sub-section which has a lot of important settings you will care about. Not to mention, that depending on whether you're in a smaller window or maximized window, these sections CHANGE ORDER.






to






Why? In a small window, Scout Mode is on the top left (and looks like the 1st option), but in a maximized window it is the 3rd option. Please fix this for consistency's sake. I personally think Acoustic Engine, Scout Mode, Equalizer, Dolby Dynamic Range Control, and Filters would be the best order. Just my two cents. Lastly, when the software doesn't detect the device, all the options change. Why does the software have settings when a device isn't even connected? These are settings that you'll never see as long as the G6 is connected. It's confusing to me.




*Final Impressions*​
Barring some software woes, some settings like Surround and Apply Headphone Virtualization being a finicky setting at the moment, I believe the G6 is a potentially huge win for Creative, and something I recommend all headphone gamers that don't already have an X7 look into. There's just so much to this device, that it's impossible to be anything but elated by its feature set (aside from the previously mentioned issues). It is a stellar device that will only get better and better.

I think the G6 is going to be an immensely popular device in the gaming community. It will surely be an automatic recommendation as a gaming dac/amp for 99% of people who ask me personally (once the issues are fixed). Creative just needs to get to work on fixing its problems so I can completely recommend it. From something that I'd at the moment consider a 7/10 (because those issues are a huge problem, and many general consumers will not want to deal with them), it can easily end up as something closer to 9/10. If they can improve the software to be simpler and easier to understand, I'd say it'd be a nearly perfect product.








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*Creative Sound Blaster GC7*

Price as of August 2021: $169.99
*Where to Buy:* *Creative**, **Amazon*
My Latest Driver/Firmware Check: August 23rd, 2021. (This month's update broke SXFI, so I'd not update to it, IMO.)

*CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE FULL REVIEW PAGE OF THE GC7*



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Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB
Many thanks to @NamelessPFG for lending me this device!

Virtual Surround Device
Sells for $85


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Affordable wired alternative to the DSS, with mic capabilities (which the DSS lacks for everything but Turtle Beach headsets)
Low noise floor compared to the competition in the affordable price range (excluding the Headzone)
Software (computer required) has many settings to tweak to your personal preference, including an equalizer, bass boost with crossfeed, which you can then import directly to the device with a press of a button
Cons:

Virtual surround doesn't quite match Dolby Headphone processing, with slightly inaccurate panning, lack of rear soundstage depth (compared to Dolby Headphone), and strange distortion with certain sound effects.
Does not decode DTS natively.
Software program has several useless and confusing settings, best left off (i.e. Crystalizer.)
Scout Mode hurts the surround emulation for emphasis on certain audio ranges
Personal notes:

I wasn't expecting it to be as good as it is. It is indeed a viable alternative to devices like the Mixamp, DSS, and AX720, but it doesn't quite reach the performance sound quality-wise as those devices. It does deliver a clean, clear sound, with just a few hiccups (like odd, grainy treble distortion at times). I found the program to be mostly useless. Other than maxing out the Surround setting (default is at 65%), I left everything else alone. Bass boosting and EQ is best left to hardware, not software, though if you have no other choice, the option is there.

I'd personally put the surround emulation to be 75% as good as Dolby Headphone devices like the Mixamp. I found THX mode (the best mode), to be comparable to the Victor SU-DH1's DH1 mode. The Recon3D had better soundstage width and FRONT depth, but was comparable in rear depth, and didn't match the SU-DH1 in in positional cues (even in DH1 mode).

If you already own the Recon3D, no worries. It's a pretty good device, and you may not find the need to upgrade to a Dolby Headphone device, at least until you compare them side by side. The Recon 3D has a good sense of immersion and decent surround emulation. However, I find Dolby Headphone to be worthwhile over the Recon3D's surround emulation.



----------
----------

Creative X7

Where to buy: Amazon.com


Spoiler: Review



@Evshrug, long time friend and contributor to this gaming headphone guide, has an excellent review of the Creative X7 gaming dac/amp. You can find his review here: Evshrug's Creative X7 Review.

@earfoniaalso has a very technical and in depth review of the X7. Here you'll get all manner of specs and tests. Earfonia's Creative X7 Review

I may or may not review the X7 myself in the future, though definitely not as well written or informative as Evshrug and Earfonia's reviews.





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----------

*Redscape Audio Software And Headtracker*


$40 (software), $140 (software with headtracker unit)
Where To Buy: Redscape Audio

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN FULL REVIEW PAGE*



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----------

*Sennheiser GSX 1000 Gaming Audio Amplifier*

Under $230 (as of June 2018)
Where to buy: Amazon

*Audiophile PC Gaming Made Easy*



Spoiler: Review



Note: This review was done with various headphones/headsets, no speakers. Unfortunately, I don't have external speakers to test those capabilities out. I apologize.

Sennheiser's GSX 1000 Audio Amplifier for PC and Mac. Entering a quite crowded market of PC-centric audio devices is never an easy feat for any company. Whether gaming oriented, audiophile oriented, or anything in between, these (essentially) external soundcard replacements need something incredible to stick out. The GSX 1000 sticks out to me in a few meaningful ways. Depending on who you ask, some may be good or bad.



*Build:*

The GSX 1000 looks like what can only be described as simplistic looking black square (though it's not as simple as it appears). It isn't much larger than a drink coaster, and is quite lightweight without it feeling flimsy. The GSX 1000 is relatively small for a dac/amp, but it feels substantial enough to not warrant alarm on its general ruggedness. It's a handsome little device dressed in matte black plastic, save for a glossy black concave ring that serves as the perimeter of the central volume dial. The tiny gap between the dial and the black housing serves as the space illuminated by red, letting you know the device is on. Before going in depth about the main face area of the GSX 1000, I'll talk about the simple stuff.

On the front side of the GSX 1000 is just a plain white Sennheiser logo. The left side has nothing. The right side has a small microphone volume wheel which adjusts your outgoing mic level. The backside of the GSX 1000 has your inputs and outputs. You simply have the micro usb input for powering your GSX 1000 as well as it being your lone source input. Next to it are the speaker out, microphone input, and headphone input. That's it for your I/O. The bottom of the GSX 1000 has a long horizontal strip or rubber as your sole 'foot' towards the front. Towards the back is a 'bay' with a Sennheiser Logo that when opened reveals some of the product information, as well as the bay itself doubling as a kickstand, which elevates the GSX 1000 enough to make adjusting your volume/settings easier and making them more legible as opposed to just leaving the device flat.

Going back to the main face, surrounding the volume knob, each corner of the GSX 1000's front face holds a small, horizontal, slim button that illuminates red when the device is being adjusted physically. These 4 buttons are where you save your GSX 1000 settings. By hovering/pressing your finger against one for a few seconds, it will lock in your settings for that button. For example having the upper left button/preset with 7.1 surround, loud mic monitoring, speaker input, and then having the bottom right button/preset with 2.0 basic stereo, no mic monitoring, and the music EQ preset. You essentially have 4 manually saved presets. I personally use two: one for gaming, one for everything else. I could see myself adding one more preset specific to multiplayer gaming with mic monitoring.

When holding down to lock in your chosen preset, there will be a 'thump' noise on your headphone/speakers letting you know it's saved, as well as the volume level on the center screen will flicker white a few times. When selecting one of these 4 buttons/presets, the chosen one will be lit in white, while the others remain red.

Moving on to the volume dial, the dial itself is matte silver, though the center is a shiny black that unfortunately can and will pick up any and all micro scratches and abrasions. This area is where the main digital interface of the GSX 1000 is. When off, it looks like nothing is there, but while the GSX 1000 is on, the volume level is displayed at the center. With barely a finger's touch, the other touch sensitive options are revealed and illuminate on the face of the volume knob around the volume level.

Upper left: Horn icon. Switch between sound systems. When pressed, it switches between Headset icon, and speaker icon. Pretty self explanatory, you choose between piping your audio to the headphone out, or the speaker out.

Upper right: EQ bars. Equalizer Settings: This changes between various equalizer presets. OFF, Music, Story, Esports. I will explain these in depth in the 'Sound' section.

Bottom Left: Headset icon with curving arrow. Sidetone level. It adjusts the volume level of your headset's microphone volume monitoring. The more (+) symbols, the louder you can hear your own voice through the headset/speakers. This does not affect how others hear you.

Bottom Right: ((O)) on screen. Sound Mode. This changes between 2.0 or 7.1 surround. 2.0 is Basic Stereo, no surround processing. 7.1 uses Sennheiser's GSX surround processing. Setting this to 7.1 will reveal two extra icons on the display as noted next.

Center Left: Squiggly Lines icon. Reverb (Environment). This adjusts the 7.1. surround sound level. No symbols is 'Neutral'/small room size, least amount of reverb. One (+) is 'Confined Space'/medium room size and some reverb, Three (+) symbols means 'Open World'/large room size with the most reverb. I will go a bit more in depth in the 'Sound' section.

Center Right: Person icon. Surround Amplification. With no arrows, surround sound is default with no emphasis on either front or rear audio cues. Arrow pointing up means rear audio cues are emphasized. Arrow pointing down means front audio cues are emphasized.

That's about it for the GSX 1000. It at first appears very barren of I/O, options, and general versatility, but after messing about with its settings, I feel the GSX 1000 makes for a perfect little device for the heavy PC user.



*Accessories:*

Simplicity is the name of the game here. The GSX 1000 simply comes with a small, red micro usb cable. That. Is. It. That is all you will need, really. Desktop speakers should already bring their own audio cable, and headset/microphones are also self-reliant on cabling.



*Ease of Use:*

The GSX 1000 is a great example of plug and play. You simply hook up a USB cable, go to your computer's sound device settings, find the GSX 1000 Main Audio, go to the sound control panel, configure speakers to 7.1, then go to Properties, then Advanced and set the Default Format to 16bit/48khz unless you're fine with 16/44. You can set to 24bit/96khz when configuring speakers to just 2 channel in Windows, but then you lose the proper GSX 7.1 surround emulation. I recommend only doing this if you absolutely know you will never use the GSX surround features on the GSX 1000, which at that point I'd question why you are using the GSX 1000 in the first place, when a regular dac/amp would've suited those needs better. Anyways, that's all you have to do on the PC side. Everything else will be adjusted on the device itself. So absolutely no software to download, no drivers to configure, it's all on the device.

My only gripes are that the device is super touch sensitive and you may accidentally toggle a setting you didn't mean to simply when doing something as simple as adjusting the volume. The 4 preset buttons also tend to be super easy to press even when you don't want to, so you may end up accidentally switching presets or overwriting one by accident. I only wish Sennheiser made the touch sensitivity a little less sensitive to perhaps stop this from happening as much. Barely hovering a finger over something may trigger it.

You can even choose between using a keyboard volume controls, windows volume control, or the GSX 1000's volume dial. They all behave the same way. Whatever is easiest. For me, since I use my PC on a TV, the GSX is out of my reach, so I prefer adjusting my volume with my wireless keyboard. When adjusting, the GSX display's volume setting will display my volume level changes.

Asides from from the touch sensitive quirks, the GSX 1000 is very intuitive and simple to use, once you know what all the settings do.

I do wish the device auto switched to 24 bit/96khz whenever you switch to 2.0 stereo.



*Sound:*

The GSX 1000 doesn't have much in the way of inputs, and can only function for PC/MAC use. Thankfully there is a lot to love here despite it's lack of connectivity and versatility. Sound is one of them. I won't go much into its sound characteristics as I feel any decent solid state amp/dac should be fairly linear and neutral in tone, which the GSX 1000 is. I can't ask much more than that other than for it to be free of background noise and hiss, which it also is. What's left to look into are what the GSX 1000 brings to the table outside of these simple necessities in sound.

I'll begin with specific settings and how they affect the sound...



*EQ presets:*

The GSX 1000 comes with 4 EQ presets: OFF (No icon), Music (Note icon), Story (film clapperboard icon), Esports (Crosshair icon). Pinpointing the changes by ear isn't the easiest task because compared to the OFF setting, the rest seem to have a baseline volume boost, even in ranges of frequencies not being boosted by EQ. They're just 'louder', and thus it's harder to pinpoint the differences between OFF and the other presets aside from the obvious big bumps in changes.

No icon = untouched/neutral/flat tonal balance.

Music = Moderate boost from the lowest bass up to around 200hz where it starts leveling off. 4khz and above seem to be raised noticeably compared to off, so I'd label the Music setting as obviously being bass and wide range treble boosted. Likely ideal for n frequency shaped headphones that lack bass and upper range detail.

Story =  Like the Music preset, bass levels are boosted up to around 200hz where it levels off. Unlike the Music Preset, upper detail changes don't really start happening again until 8khz, where there is definite emphasis past this point. I'd say the Story preset is bass and treble oriented, with a more target treble emphasis up top, as opposed to the the broad range emphasis in the Music preset. I'd say that of the two, I'd consider the Story preset a more subtle bass and treble preset likely beneficial for linear headphones with treble roll off.

Esports = This preset more or less is like an Audio-Technica AD-700 in preset form. It de-emphasizes the bass ranges by a considerable amount until it starts leveling off and meeting the OFF preset at about 800hz. Past that, it does the reverse, and starts emphasizing and boosting frequencies past 900hz more and more all the way to the end of audible treble. This preset is heavily detail oriented, and would obviously benefit detail deficient headphones like many overly bassy headphones, or budget headphones not worth giving a stink about. Use this one for your 'not so good' pair of headphones.

Personally I'm of the mindset of don't fix what ain't broken, and thus I don't ever EQ my headphones unless they have a particularly noteworthy flaw. Even then, I consider most flaws part of the particular headphone's experience and so I tend to leave them as is. At the most, I may boost the bass on something that is inherently lacking, but that's as far as I go.



*Surround Amplification:*

As mentioned before, this can boost the volume levels of either front or rear audio cues in 7.1 surround mode. Personally, I prefer leaving this with no arrows so all manner of audio cues are at an balanced volume level regardless of direction. If you feel you need to focus on front or back sounds, this may be helpful to you otherwise. The volume difference when using these settings are pretty significant.



Reverb (Environment)/GSX Surround:

This is the'room' size for GSX surround.

Neutral/No '+' symbols: This has the least amount of reverb, and personally feels like surround sound cues are pretty close to the head. The most anal of audiophile purists who hate any kind of sound processing may want to start here, as this is the closest thing to a "headphone experience with surround cues" as it gets without sounding more like speakers in a room type processing.

Confined Space/One '+' symbol: I consider this the standard 'room' size. It has some reverb which aid in a broader sense of space, at the expense of making headphones sound less like headphones and more like listening to a room surrounded on all sides with speakers. The soundstage is noticeably expanded, and you can really get a sense of sounds coming from all around you, as opposed to just outside your headphone space. This is my preferred setting when gaming. Yes, the reverb may not be for everyone, but I consider it a worthy sacrifice for the amazing surround emulation that GSX Surround provides with this setting. The positional cues on this setting are nothing short of stellar. You get a real sense of things being around you, and even rear cues really sound like things are behind you. I'm a true believer.

Open World/Three '+' symbols: This is the 'large' room size. This is the polar opposite of the Neutral setting. It drastically enhaces soundstage in comparison, but really adds a significant amount of reverb. Positional accuracy is just as good as the Confined Space setting, but the reverb is personally a bit too much for me to compromise. Fun to test out, but I don't personally see people using this setting on a regular basis.

Of the three presets, I really believe most people used to virtual surround processors will choose the Confined Space/One '+' symbol setting. It's the closest thing to the widely known and used Dolby Headphone 2, but with less reverb and just as amazing surround properties. You can't lose here.

Of the main headphone surround technologies like Dolby Headphone and Creative's SBX, I found Sennheiser's GSX surround swinging for the fences. All three techs have their pros and cons, but I feel GSX surround has the best compromises of the three. Dolby Headphone is essentially made obsolete by GSX, and SBX, while better at having surround processing without reverb even at 100% surround (largest room size), doesn't quite reach the same level of rear audio precision as GSX. If reverb is a concern, I'd say go for SBX, otherwise, GSX is the king here. Dolby Headphone still works wonders, but has the most compromises between its warmer tonality, and reverb. I don't mention Razer Surround, Dolby Atmos, and other known surround techs due to minimal experience with those.



*Amping:*

The GSX 1000 is somewhat average on power in terms of amplification. To put things in perspective, I have a Hifiman HE-400 planarmagnetic at home as my main headphone. It isn't exactly a hard planar to drive, yet I have to max the volume out on the GSX 1000 to get the volume to a moderately loud volume. Moderately loud is right where I like it, so it's fine, but that means there's absolutely no headroom to play with here. On my Sennheiser Game One ( a relatively easy to drive dynamic headset), there is much more volume to play with.

In terms of adding an amp to the chain, I didn't have great luck with the Creative X7, as it hissed and had just way too much noise/distortion. Perhaps with an all analog amplifier, the double amping to retain GSX surround with a more powerful amp may work just fine. Unfortunately, the only amp I have at home is the Creative X7 which has too many digital components which may be the reason it clashed with the GSX 1000. I've been told by friends with the GSX 1000 that double amping sounds fine with normal amps, and I'm inclined to believe them.



*Microphone:*

Having tested the GSX 1000 with the Sennheiser Game One to test for mic audio capabilities, I found absolutely nothing to complain about. Mic quality is fantastic, no weird hiss or distortions, and the optional mic monitoring on the GSX 1000 makes it easy to know if you're talking too loud, etc. Here is a stock/default example of the recording capabilities:





*Personal Recommendations:*

Not much I can say except if you are mainly all about PC gaming, and do most audio related things on PC, the GSX 1000 may be the device for you. It is absolutely amazing for gaming in virtual surround.

For music and/or stereo based content, it provides a very clean sound with a bevy of settings to play with if you choose. If you are using relatively easy to drive headphones, the GSX 1000 is an attractive option.



*Comparisons:*

As far as devices that I have on hand that may be somewhat similar, I have an Asus Xonar U3 as a budget option, and the Creative X7LE as the higher end option.

Asus Xonar U3: The Asus Xonar U3 is a neat little device that can actually do slightly more with other devices than the GSX 1000 for a fraction of the price. It has a fairly weak internal amp, which may be its main shortcoming. However, it has an optical out that can feed Dolby Headphone to a better DAC, or amp with its line out. Unlike the GSX 1000, everything is done in its PC software. If you're fine with Dolby Headphone which isn't far behind GSX Surround, this may be a really great, cheap alternative. However, I feel the GSX 1000's suite of tools and better surround processing is a better device for more serious gamers who just want one device for their PC.

Creative X7: The X7 is the option for those that want absolutely everything in one package. Audiophile dac, with strong amp, all the options such as SBX headphone surround, eq presets, bluetooth, mic settings, line out, optical out, digital and analog inputs, controls via software, app, OR on the device itself, and much more. It simply has all you can ever possibly need for most headphones. It isn't without its quirks, but overall, this is a device other companies need to look at and attempt to compete with in the higher end gaming space. It however is a fairly complicated device as opposed to the single cable GSX 1000. If you need something for all your gaming sources like consoles, definitely look into the X7. For PC user mainly, the GSX 1000 may be a better fit.


*Likes and Dislikes*

Pros:

Simple setup
GSX Surround
The volume dial
Nice, easy to understand options
Mic monitoring
Transportability
Cons:

Overly sensitive touch interface
Amping could be just a tad bit stronger for a broader selection option of headphone compatibility
PC only device/lack of versatility


*Final Impressions:*

I really, really like the GSX 1000. It may lack in versatility for my needs which are beyond the scope of the GSX 1000's capabilities, mainly in more inputs for things outside of the PC, and a need for a more powerful amp, but even with those shortcomings, I can't help but be enamored by the painless simplicity of the GSX 1000. It is very user friendly, and the surround processing works as good as any other I've ever used (if not outright better).

The GSX1000 makes me feel like selling all the things I have, using this for PC with a Sennheiser Game One and calling it a day. As simple as it gets. Now, I hope we see a Creative X7 level device from Sennheiser. I think if anyone could make a big winner, it's 100% Sennheiser. Even as it stands, I prefer the simple solution of just attaching one cable to this device, as opposed to the rat's nest of cables behind the Creative X7.




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Tritton AX 720

Dolby Headphone Device
Sells for $129 with an included headset (Best Buy).


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

The "cleanest" wired Dolby Headphone set up
Included is a decent headset, not the best for gaming, but it should give you an idea of what you're looking for in an upgraded pair of cans, or it might be "good enough" to use for gaming
Selectable Modes of operation: Dolby Digital 5..1/(7.1 for newer model), Dolby Pro-Logic II, Dolby, Music, Movie, and Stereo
Cons (as tested with an older 5.1 decoder):

Needs External AC Adapter to function
low level noise while in use at all levels, not just higher volumes. Interestingly, switching to a headphone only setup resulted in a dramatic reduction in static/noise. It seems as if the static is directly affected by the attachment of a microphone.
Wired (though not as cluttered as Astro Mixamp)
Limited Connections: Optical (TOS) and USB (PC & Mac Renders decoder box and Puck controls inoperable, can only be used for stereo sound).
Does not decode DTS natively.
To use a microphone, plug microphone (must have 3.5mm plug) into the right port on the "In Line Audio Control Module" (puck/the thing the plugs into the white box). If using Xbox360 use a 3.5mm to 2.5mm audio cable connect 3.5mm plug into the side of the puck, and 2.5mm end into controller. If using PS3 use the usb (a to b) cable from the decoder box to the PS3.



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Turtle Beach DSS (old version)

Dolby Headphone Device
(DISCONTINUED)


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Cheapest DH device for console use
Preset EQs
Can take two inputs (3.5mm in, optical in)
Cons:

Wired
No integrated mic input. This means only Turtle beach headsets have chat capabilities. This can be resolved through the use of a direct mic input to the controller of a Xbox 360 and on the newer DSS 2 through the use of a usb soundcard dongle with 3.5mm out and 3.5mm in for PS3
Louder background noise than the AX720 decoder, which scales with volume (unconfirmed)
New version, the DSS2 does not use Dolby Headphone, and only simulates 4 speakers. It is unknown (so far) how it compares to Dolby Headphone.
Does not decode DTS natively.



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Victor SU-DH1
Many thanks to @NamelessPFG for lending me this device!

Dolby Headphone Device
(DISCONTINUED)


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

All Dolby Headphone modes: DH1 (smallest, least processed DH mode), DH2 (the standard DH processing used in almost all DH devices like the Mixamp), DH3 (biggest virtual room size)
Decodes DTS (converts a DTS signal into Dolby Headphone)
Small
Cons:

Very, VERY rare.
JVC version only works through batteries
No mic/chat support
Internal amp is weakest out of all Dolby headphone devices tested
Personal notes:

The Victor SU-DH1. Not many bad things you can say about it, other than it being incredibly rare, and that the only one worth getting is the Victor version, as it works through an AC adapter, as opposed to just batteries in the JVC version. having finally been able to test DH1 and DH3 mode, I see why DH2 is the most popular choice for virtual surround devices. It's the middle ground between audio fidelity, and an immersive soundfield. DH1 is the best audio quality wise (the least processed sound), but it has a small soundstage, and positioning isn't as clear as DH2. DH3 is borderline unusable, as it's just an extremely processed, echo chamber-like sound. Directly comparing the DH2 mode with the Mixamp 5.8's DH2, I found them to be very similar, but due to the weaker amp in the SU-DH1, the sound was slightly thinner, and soundstage was smaller. However, the benefit of DTS decoding makes the Victor SU-DH1 worth it over any other DH device (on the list), assuming you can find one, and you don't mind the lack of chat capabilities.




*External Amps and DACs*​


Spoiler:  Info, and how to attach external amps to a virtual surround device



This section is for somewhat affordable audiophile amps (by head-fi standards) that would help power those pesky harder to drive headphones like the Q701, DT990/600, HD650, etc. This is especially useful when using an external mic. Mixing in voice chat tends to really hurt the overall volume of the 'Mixamp', where you can no longer get a loud enough volume without an aid of these audiophile amps.

The method to attach these amps to a virtual surround device like the Mixamp is:


Console -> Optical/Toslink cable -> 'Mixamp' -> Headphone out -> 3.5mm male cable to 3.5mm OR RCA male cable (depending on amp used) -> 3.5mm input/RCA input on Amp -> Headphones

If using an external microphone:

Console -> Optical/Toslink cable -> 'Mixamp' -> Headphone out -> Y cable (one orange/microphone input for the microphone, one green/audio) -> 3.5mm male cable to 3.5mm/RCA male cable (depending on amp used) attached to the green jack on the Y cable -> 3.5mm input/RCA input on Amp -> Headphones

The Y cable SHOULD come with the Mixamp, if going that route.

You would then max out or nearly max out the 'Mixamp' on the master volume, and control the volume with the audiophile amp.

It is recommended that you get a DESKTOP amplifier, for the power they output over portable amps. It takes nearly 2x the power of an amp just to gain a few decibels in volume. This is why using a portable amp is not recommended.

Now for a few recommendations:



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Fiio E9K (aka E09K)

Sells for $109, $20 less if you want the older E9


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Clean, musical sound signature
Packing plenty of power for most dynamic headphones, and even some Planars like the HE400. Nearly 1watt at 32ohm and 75mw at 600ohm
Sleek, black brushed metal finish, with a dock on top for the E07K or E17, for audiophile DAC use
Plenty of versatility with an RCA Line In, Line Out, Pre-amp Out, and USB input for your E07K or E17 (while docked)
Cons:

10 ohm output impedance. Most headphones with less than 80ohm may have an altered sound signature due to not enough damping. Some exceptions are Planars and the Q701/K701 which aren't affected. However, you may want to look at another external amp if you plan on using low ohm headphones
Treble range is very slightly on the brighter side of neutral, so headphones like the DT990 may be a bit harsh off the E09K
Personal notes:

I was seriously impressed with this affordable desktop amp, even next to the Audio-GD SA-31, which is many times more powerful and many times more expensive. Though it may have a less than universal 10ohm output impedance, I didn't find it to really mess up my low ohm headphones, though it's still a possibility to make bass more sloppy or treble more harsh if using headphones with less than 80ohm. I find the E9K and the older E9 to do their best with headphones in the 80-300ohm range.

Per Fiio, the best area of the volume knob is betweek 9-12 o' clock, so adjust gain accordingly to try to land between that sweet spot. I did feel that both low and high gain tended to land between that anyway, so I used low gain for the peace of mind.



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Fiio E12 'Mont Blanc'

Sells for $130


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Fully portable w/rechargeable battery (via micro usb port), sleek design, volume knob instead of digital button for volume control
Very clean, neutral sound, with optional bass boost (50hz range), and optional crossfeed (unheard of in the price range). Gain switch from 0-16db, capable of outputting illogically loud volume levels to practically every headphone short of electrostatics and harder to drive planar magnetics.
Very, very powerful portable amp, rivaling desktop amps like the Fiio E9K in power
Incredibly low output impedance for near universal compatibility with low/high impedance headphones
No need to hook up to a power outlet when using it to aid the Mixamp/other DH devices, meaning less clutter
Cons:

Lack of versatility (one 3.5mm input, no outputs)
Inputs/usb ports placed in illogical positions (headphone jack in the center, not to the side of the front plate, next to analog input, making it difficult to adjust the volume knob, with an awkward side usb port)
Difficult to stack with Fiio's own E07k and E17 dac/amps due to mismatched inputs (for non-gaming use)
Slight noise/interference in the signal if used while charging (if problematic, unplug the E12 while in use, and charge when not in use)
Personal notes:

The Fiio E12 is more or less ideal as the perfect amp to pair with the Mixamp/other DH devices when you need extra power. It's small, sleek, portable, and rechargeable. As mentioned, it doesn't need to be attached to a wall outlet like the desktop amps, making it highly ideal if you game away from a desktop setup.

It's a very clean, fast, neutral sounding portable amp (the most neutral Fiio amp). It has a generous amount of gain, so harder to drive headphone used with microphones for chat purposes won't be an issue (unless of course you're attempting to use something like the harder to drive planar magnetics like the HE-4, HE-5LE, HE-6, and electrostatics. It's not a desktop amp killer, but a desktop amp alternative.

The bass boost is really high quality from what I'm personally hearing, basically targeted at around 50hz, and not being a broad range bass boost which tends to be more intrusive. It will add a nice layer of warmth and impact. Though I don't find much use for the Crossfeed, it's there if you happen to own older recordings with really bad left/right stereo pannings which cause ear fatigue. Take note that crossfeed being on will noticeably reduce soundstage and merge the left/right channels slightly.

If you're OCD about having the quitest noise floor, bear in mind that usb charging may/will add some slight noise/interference. Slight.

I'd personally would still go for a desktop amp for 600ohm headphones, but anything 300ohm or less (again, with the harder to drive planarmagnetic/electrostatic exceptions) should be fair game to the E12. That being said, the E12 is more than capable of at least driving 600ohm headphone like the DT990/600 to ear splitting levels.




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*iFi GO Blu*


*Price as of August 2022: $199.00
Where to Buy: ifi-audio, Amazon, *and many other places.

*Please CLICK HERE to up FULL REVIEW PAGE!*

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Objective O2
USA buyers - JDS Labs Objective O2
UK/International buyers - Epiphany Acoustics Objective O2

Sells for $156 w/AC adapter


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Very technical, very neutral, and highly regarded. The most neutral and technical amp available for the price
DIY kits available for personal builds and customization
Battery bay for portable use, or remove battery bay for built in ODAC use
Incredibly low output impedance for near universal compatibility with low/high impedance headphones
Cons:

Lack of inputs and versatility
Front power, and analog input alongside the headphone input, for a messy and cluttered front (really, why are those not in the back?)
Due to the very neutral signature, may not be as musical enough for personal tastes, and may come off as mostly clinical/analytical/sterile
Personal notes:

I haven't heard the O2 personally, but those wanting the most neutral amp available at the price, may want to look into the O2. The front inputs are a major personal turn off, so I wouldn't personally get it, but if you want function over everything else, the O2 may be hard to pass up.





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*Schiit Gaming Dac/Amps 'Hel' and 'Fulla 3'*

Hel: $189 as of Dec 2019
Fulla $99 as of Dec 2019
Where to buy: Hel at Schiit.com , Fulla 3 at Schiit.com

*CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW PAGE*

(*NOTE*: The Schiit Hel has been updated to the Hel 2. An updated review of the Hel 2 has been added. *CLICK HERE FOR UPDATED HEL 2 REVIEW*)



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*Schiit Fulla 4*

Fulla 4: $109 as of June 2021
Where to buy: *Fulla 4 at Schiit.com*

*CLICK HERE to go to the page for the full Schiit Fulla 4 Review!*



----------
----------

*Schiit Hel 2*
**
Hel 2: $199 as of April 2021
Where to buy: *Hel 2 at Schiit.com*

*CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE MAIN REVIEW*

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Schiit Magni

Sells for $99


Spoiler: Review



Pros:

Cheap, quite powerful, small, and incredibly sexy. The aluminum body has a nice weight to it as well
Very clean, fast sound
Pair up with the Schiit Modi, for one lovely, affordable AMP/DAC stack that may be all you need in terms of audio equipment
Incredibly low output impedance for near universal compatibility with low/high impedance headphones
Personal notes:

Schiit surprised EVERYONE with the surprising release of the Magni/Modi stack. It brings power, technicality, aesthetics, and build quality all at an astonishingly low price. I couldn't pass it up and bought the combo as soon as I heard of it. I have not been disappointed by it, even next to my main setup. The Schiit Stack (Modi+Magni) is very similar to the Fiio E9/E9K in height, and basically swaps width for deep compared to the Fiios. The Magni or Modi alone are very short.

The Magni will be my future recommendation for those in the USA looking for an amplifier to hook up to their Mixamps.





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----------

*Schiit Vali 2+
*
$149 as of May 2021
*Where to Buy: **Vali 2+ at Schiit.com*

*CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE PAGE WITH THE FULL SCHIIT VALI 2+ REVIEW!*



----------
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*External Microphones*​
AntLion ModMic

Where to buy: Modmic
Sells for: $33.95-$36.00


Spoiler: review



I have not personally heard this microphone, but everyone I know who owns it is extremely pleased with how sensitive it is, and how versatile it is with attaching it to your headphones. This one is a high quality mic that attaches directly to your headphone, swivels up/down, and is flexible. It will make headsets obsolete, when paired with a good headphone, though you have to contend with an extra wire between the headphone and the source. I personally suggest the V-Moda BoomPro IF you have a headphone with a detachable 3.5mm cable (or possibly 2.5mm input when used with an adapter). If not, the Modmic makes the best choice for headphones that don't have a detachable 3.5mm cable.

There are various models out there, so check woth the Antlion website to see which works best for you. ruuku's comparison is at the bottom of this section, so impressions and comparisons can be found there.



----------
----------

Labtec LVA-7330

Where to buy: Amazon
MSRP: $19.95


Spoiler: Review



Now, I personally purchased this one and can attest to it's sound quality. It sounds almost as good as the built in mic on the Sennheiser PC360, with just a bright, and thinner sound, but still very clear.

The problem with the LVA7330 is that it's not very versatile in that to attach to a headphone, you have to commit to it by sanding off the headband portion (the mic has a perfect area on it to let you know exactly where to sand it off to), and attaching the mic to the headphone permanently, or with double sided velcro. I personally went with the velcro option, and it wasn't pretty, and the mic was too heavy for the velcro and would somewhat come off a bit. While it is a great mic, it's more for DIY-ers, and pretty much has to be permanently attached to your headphones for the cleanest looking setup.

This is a well known mic and popular mic for head-fiers of yesteryear. I'd personally save up the extra cash for the Antlion modmic if you want a full-sized microphone, as it's not permanent, and easier to attach/detach.



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Mini Clip-on Microphones (Neweer, HDE, DX models)

Where to buy: Neweer on Amazon, HDE on Amazon, DX on DealeXtreme
Sells for very cheap


Spoiler: Review



Note: This review does not reflect the Neweer or HDE models. Sound quality may vary in comparison to the DX clip on.



Original Review for the DX clip on: The DX clip on is incredibly cheap. It can be clipped on to your headphone's cable or your shirt. The sound quality is bright, thin, but clear. It's shielding prevents it from picking up unnecessary outside noise (unlike the borderline horrible Zalman clip-on mic, which you need can really only use in a very silent room, picks up all noises, yet you have to scream at the damn thing to pick up your voice clearly). The DX clip-on picks up your voice very easily, and you don't even have to talk loud. Not as elegant as the Antlion modmic, but it's a great mic for those wanting to save money, or as an alternative. It should be ordered by anyone currently looking for a mic and doesn't want to spend much money.

There is a catch. The DX mic takes a LONG time to reach your hands from the time you place your order. Seriously. It takes around a month's time. So I recommend you order it and forget about it. It also is prone to tangling, and adds cable clutter, so if you like an elegant solution, the DX clip-on is not it. I personally just put it away when I don't need voice chat, and attach it to my headphone's cable for the gaming session when I do use it. As stated earlier in the update: I recommend looking into the Neweer or HDE models first, as they are sold domestically, and will reach your hands much, much quicker.

IF you are having a problem with any of these mics not picking up your voice, try clipping the mic to the headphone's cable, and not your shirt.




----------
----------

V-moda BoomPro

Where to buy: Amazon
MSRP: $29.99


Spoiler: Review



V-Moda has found a way to rectify a problem many of us didn't realize we had until they brought it out to light: Why hasn't anyone made an accessory that will turn any headphone into a headset with a boom microphone, without additional clutter, or cables to mess with? The BoomPro is just that. If you have any headphone that has a standard, detachable, 3.5mm cable (meaning no proprietary twist lock design), you can swap out the stock cable and use the V-moda BoomPro. That's it. Just a quick cable swap for $30, gets you a very effective boom mic with an inline volume and mic mute swtich with a clip. No stress, no mess.



Having used the BoomPro for gaming lately on my PS4, I've been told my voice comes through loud and clear, with no weird background noise or distortion. Can't argue with that. The boom mic is incredibly flexible/malleable, so you can position it in any angle, and as close/far away from your mouth as you want. I put it just far enough to where it picks up my voice well without picking up my breathing. Nothing is more annoying than seeing the mic icon in the game from another gamer, and all you hear is background noise and breathing. The BoomPro does not have this issue, making it incredibly indispensable.

On the source end, the BoomPro terminates into a single 3 pole 3.5mm plug, meaning if you have a device that uses separate audio and microphone 3.5mm inputs, you'll have to use the included Y splitter, that separates audio and microphone signals.

The BoomPro can be paired up with a large amount of headphones: I will include headphones I know to work with the BoomPro, and I will update as the list grows. If you know for certain of a headphone that will work with standard 3.5mm cables/BoomPro, please let me know). ALSO, there are those rare headphones that have a removable 2.5mm cable, so I suggest picking up a cheap 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter as a small bridge between the BoomPro and your headphone with a 2.5mm input. Beware, as many headphones may have recessed inputs which will not allow the BoomPro or 2.5mm adapter to fit.

*Vmoda BoomPro Headphone Compatibility List:*
Some Vmoda BoomPro compatible headphones, not a list of recommendations.

Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
Focal Spirit Pro, Classic (need confirmation)
M-Audio Q40
Monster DNA On Ear, DNA Pro
MrSpeakers Mad Dog (single ended version)
NAD Viso HP50
Nuforce HP800
Philips Fidelio X1
Skullcandy Aviator
Vmoda LP2, M80, M100, XS
From here on out, the BoomPro will be the best recommendation for a microphone that I give, as it basically makes getting a dedicated gaming headset obsolete. You can simply just buy a good headphone w/detachable cable, attach this mic, and it will outperform any headset at a comparable price range.

There are two alternatives I know of, that function similarly to the BoomPro: the cheaper alternative, provided by Auvio ($7.99), and the expensive alternative, the Beyerdynamic COP Headset Gear Custom One Pro Microphone ($59). I can't attest to the mic and cable's quality from either of the alternatives, as I haven't personally tested either. The sparse reviews on the Auvio model doesn't inspire confidence. I'd get the Auvio only if you need to pinch pennies and can't justify $30 for the V-moda BoomPro. Beyerdynamic's model is twice as expensive as V-moda's BoomPro, and is targeted for owners of the Custom One Pro. I'm confident Beyer's mic cable is at least as good as V-Moda's, if not better, but at double the price, and less likely to fit other headphones due to the thicker stalk, I still feel better recommending the BoomPro instead.





----------
----------

*Pad Swapping*​----------
----------

*Dekoni Audio Pads*



*Elite Hybrid pads: From $79.99 to $99.99 depending on headphone model.
Elite Velour pads: From $49.99 to 59.99 depending on headphone model.*



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I'd like to give thanks to Tal at @DekoniAudio for sending these out to me for me to try. Also thanks to @Evshrug for getting me into contact with them.  Dekoni Audio is relatively new to me, as in I didn't know much about them until recently. What I did know of them was that they offered various ear pads of differing qualities and materials for some of today's most popular headphones. I feel that with the range of sizes and materials, the earpads will likely fit a much, MUCH larger pool of headphones not listed on their website. For example, I asked them for some Fostex TH-900 Elite Hybrid pads to use with my aging Hifiman HE-400, as well as some Elite Velours made for the Beyerdynamic DT700/880/990 line that I'm using for a Beyerdynamic Custom Game (headset variant of the Custom One Pro), as well as MMX300 headset.

Chances are, if you're well acquainted with a specific headphone, you may find a pair of Dekoni pads that fit them. You may wanna ask Dekoni directly for pad size inner diameter, outer, depth, etc, as well as figuring out if your headphones have easily replaceable pads.

I say it's worth a try, because these are some truly well built pads that offer a unique presentation of both comfort and sound quality. Mind you, pad swapping may be a simple process, but can have huge effects on sound quality for better or worse. It's hard to critique pads based on sound quality, especially when using them for headphones not originally intended. All one can hope for is that pad swapping leads to better comfort and nearly equal or better sound quality compared to stock pads. There may even be some necessary sacrificing of some sound quality in order to make some uncomfortable headphones much easier to wear.

Pad rolling can be a definite gamble. A gamble I say is worthwhile if you'd like to experiment or just aren't happy with the pads you use. As someone with a large distaste for pleather and leather pads of any variety, I always look into alternatives that at the very least have a cloth layer where the pads rest on the skin. Velour is the obvious choice, or so you'd think, but velour is a porous material that can be a detriment to headphones (mainly closed-backed) because it allows sound to escape through the pads where it may not have been intended. Thankfully, pads like the Hybrid Velours sold by Dekoni Audio have a velour top layer, while the rest of the pad is leather, allowing it to seal and isolate the sound so it goes straight from the drivers to your ears without unintended venting through the pads, yet have the comfort of velour on the skin.

Coming back to Dekoni Audio, they do everything from their headphone ear pads, to IEM tips, and even a custom T50RP planarmagnetic headphone, the Dekoni Audio Blue. As for their selection of pads, they have: Fenestrated Sheepskin, Hybrid, Sheepskin, Velour, a "Platinum Series" with Memory Foam and higher quality pleather, and finally the "Standard Series" which are there for those wanting a more basic replacement for their headphones.

For this review, as stated before, I'll be giving impressions on the Hybrid pads and Elite Velours. Not for their intended headphones, but I'll try my best to give an idea of what to expect.


*Packaging*

I absolutely love the presentation of the Dekoni Audio pads. They each come in a small but handsome box that house the pads, with a word from Dekoni Audio under the top lid, on the inside. You can tell by the presentation that they truly believe in their product. Simple, yet elegant.


*Build*

Elite Velour:



Starting with the Elite Velours made for the Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990. The Elite Velour is a noticeably bigger pad, with considerable density compared to what I remember of the 880/990 velours. Comparing it to the stock MMX300 velour pad, which I have to assume is the same as the stock DT770 velours as they are both made to seal better than the 880/990 velours, I felt the MMX300 stock pads are a bit stiffer with internal material that isolates better and allows for noticeably less leakage. The Elite Velour pads are slightly deeper/taller. The Elite Velour material feels quite different to the velours on both the 880/900 or 770/MMX300. It's more 'cloth'-like? Hard to describe. Less itchy. Comparing it to the Custom Game's pleather pads, well, it's unquestionably night and day, as expected. I'd take the Elite Velours over the pleather any day of the week. Now, the Custom Game's pleather pads are one of the least offensive, and quite comfortable for pleather, but there's no real comparison to some comfy, pillowy velour. No contest.

Elite Hybrid:



The Elite Hybrid remind me a lot like the Hifiman Focus Pads. Large pleather walls, with a top lined in velour. Unlike the Focus pads, I feel they actually seal well. I always felt that the HE-400 with Focus pads lost a bit of its bass output. I was never a fan of the HE400 with those pads. Not so with the Elite Hybrid, but I'll get to that later. If you want a pleather/leather like seal without the discomfort of having that material touching your skin, the Elite Hybrids are the way to go. They look and feel every bit as premium as what I expect for high end headphone use. I would've loved hearing the LCD-2 and Denon D7000 with these pads. I'm sure I'd have fallen in love.


*Pad Install*

As you have expected, installing the pads on to your headphones is absolutely dependent on the headphone in question. On the Beyerdynamic Custom Game and MMX300, installing pads is a relatively pain free affair. It takes a few moments to slip the pads over the lip of the headphones, and that's it, you're good to go.

On the other hand, installing pads onto the HE-400 is an exercise of utter frustration. Now, don't get me wrong. This is absolutely NOT the fault of Dekoni Audio's pads. It is completely due to the nightmare that is the HE-400's plastic rings of doom which you must first slip onto your pads, and then manage to get the 'teeth' of the plastic rings to land inside the small inner lip of the HE400's inner mounting 'area' (for lack of a better term). This can take anything from a few seconds if you're lucky to NOT doing it, having broken rings, and lacerated pads. It really is that bad. Anyone with older style Hifiman headphones will tell you. I have owned these for years, and it is always painful when I swap pads. Even with spare rings, I have managed to break every single one. Now, it's not as bad as the HELL that was the even older clear plastic teeth mechanism on the older gen Hifiman headphones like the HE-4, but it's still pretty bad.

Complaints of the Hifiman rings aside, this made doing quick pad swap comparisons impossible. I honestly can't go in depth between sonic difference (especially) on the HE-400 because frankly, I'd go insane before I could muster enough data.


*Comfort*

Both the Elite Hybrid and Elite Velour pads are humongous step up from standard pleather earpads. Both the HE400 and Custom Game's pleather earpads just don't match the Dekoni Audio pad comfort. The Beyerdynamic MMX300 velours can definitely put up a fight, as they are also quite comfortable despite being more shallow and more dense. Between the Elite Velour and Elite Hybrid, I'd say the Velours have the edge in comfort, if by a small amount. I wouldn't purchase one over the other based on comfort, but more on what sounds better on a particular headphone.


*Sound*

This is something that gave me trouble and I didn't want to spend much time doing, simply because comparing just isn't easy without two identical headphones using different pads to do quick A/B comparisons. What I will say is what I feel was good and bad for the pad swapping with some examples:


Elite Velour:

I was able to test these for the MMX300, Custom Game, and even the HE400. What I found for all three headphones was that it gave each a sense of clarity air and detail. I felt it particularly beneficial on the Custom Game which with its stock pleather pads sounds a bit unremarkable in terms of details. It is a well balanced headphone in general but lacked a sense of clarity. With the Elite Velours, it gained noticeably better soundstage, and detail retrieval. The bass output on the Custom Game is more or less completely adjustable via it's adjustable bass port sliders, but one thing is for certain: The Elite Velour noticeably reduces bass output by a considerable amount. The loss of bass is offset by adjusting the bass slider for more bass, so the bass loss isn't an issue, but for other closed headphones using Elite Velours may make a noticeable impact in reducing bass. Just a word of warning there.

The Elite Velour on the Custom Game is a success. It improves clarity, and despite reduced bass, you can add bass right back in with the bass slider. I also feel it enhances the soundstage, which felt a bit restrictive on the stock pads at times.

MMX300: Expect a loss of bass energy as it essentially turns the MMX300 bass light. Now, it wasn't a complete alteration of sound signature, but seeing as the MMX300 is tonally v-shaped, with heavy bass and sparkly treble with distant midrange, the Elite Velours reduced the bass to a minimal, tight level, the midrange remained spaced back, and treble remained sparkly.

HE400: The HE400 isn't overly picky on pads when it comes to most of its bass output. The HE400 will always have a punchy bass, and it's mostly in its deeper levels of bass that may vary depending on pads used. The HE400 is also sensitive to pad swaps when referring to its clarity. It can be dark and zingy, or sharper and airy. It's a weird headphone in that despite it's default dark tonality, has a pretty pronounced treble that doesn't quite match the rest of the sound.

The HE400 with the Elite Velour pads becomes a slightly more detailed oriented headphone with the same punchy bass. Due to the uplift in clarity and slightly brighter tone, the treble isn't as jarring in terms of emphasis relative to the rest of the sound. It's still crisp and sparkly, but since the rest of the sound is elevated to match it more evenly,

This gave me all the proof necessary to form a conclusion: The Elite Velours are made for and sound better with open headphones. Now, I'm not Dekoni Audio, and they didn't respond to my email asking them about this, but anyone who knows the DT770, 880, and 990, know that the 770 uses a different set of velour pads than the 880/990. The 770 stock velours isolate well, and keep leakage to a minimum. They are quite dense. The 880/990 velours leak a ton, are super soft and plush, and are obviously not suited for closed headphones. If you swap 770 pads into the 880/990, they become sloppy, overly bass oriented and muffled. If you put 880/990 pads on 770s, the 770s sound bass deficient and overly zingy/treble oriented. So I'm not exactly sure which of the two (open or closed) the Elite Velours were tested with by Dekoni Audio, but I feel they should target the Elite Velours for the 880/990, and not the 770. That is my assumption with no concrete evidence as to the effect it may have on a pair of DT770s, though considering the MMX300 was based off the 770, I'd think it would have a similar result of reduced bass. I'd say the Elite Velours falls right in between 880/990 pads and 770 pads. Not as leaky and open as the former, but not as closed and isolating as the latter. I'd venture a guess in saying these would pair up wonderfully with the DT880. I only wish I had them on hand to test out. Remember, they only reduce bass in comparison to leather/pleather pads that completely isolate the sound. This isn't likely to occur when using these pads on headphones that use velour pads by default.


Elite Hybrid:

The Hybrid pads are a different monster altogether. They are very much like a pleather/leather pads that are typically paired with closed headphones due to how well they isolate, seal, and keep noise leak to a minimum. Because of this, I feel that the Elite Hybrids make a better 'direct' replacement for closed headphone pads where you don't want to drastically alter the inherent sound signature but don't want to feel pleather/leather on the skin.

The HE400 with Elite Hybrids retain their inherent sound signature: bassy, warm down low with a crisp top end. Those looking for the least compromise of the inherent sound characteristics of the HE400, the Elite Hybrids do that, but with better comfort. I really appreciate this setup for when I'm in the mood for that planar bass. This reminds me why I fell in love with the HE400 all those years ago. It is a flawed headphone, but no headphone at the time other than the original LCD-2 Rev. 2 could do planarmagnetic bass like the HE-400.

I do think the HE400 sounds objectively better (if slightly) with the Elite Velour pads, though ultimately, it's a minute difference. For a long time now, I have used Shure 1540 Alcantara pads on the HE400 as a replacement for the stock pleather pads. I can say without a doubt, the Elite Hybrid pads sound noticeably better at retaining the HE400 sound than the Alcantara pads. I only used the pads because I was okay with sacrificing some audio quality for better comfort. With the Elite Hybrid pads, now I don't have to.

I briefly tested the Hybrid pads with the MMX300, and can confirm that the pads do the best in retaining most of the sound characteristics of the MMX300. It wasn't exactly like the stock velour pads, but it was good enough to say that I would be happy with either on the MMX300. These particular TH900 hybrid pads don't exactly fit perfectly over the lip of the MMX300 housing, so I would recommend obviously getting the ones made for the DT series.


Final Word On Sound:

Take my impressions with a grain of salt, since these pads were NOT specifically made for the headphones I had on hand. What I can say is that the Hybrid pads worked perfectly fine with the HE400 and MMX300, and I have no doubt would on the Custom Game as well. The Elite Velour pads worked best on the HE400, though I would suggest getting Elite Velour pads for a bigger headphone if you want them for the HE400, as the ones I had on hand were for the Beyer DT line which was on the smaller side, and the HE400's plastic ring was bulging out of the pads a little. They also worked surprisingly well on the Custom Game, as long as bass sliders are raised to 2 or 3 ports open (max level). 0-1 port open was a bit bass shy for my tastes.

I personally advise not to expect major leaps in sound quality or anything drastic. Don't expect miracles. Expect more in the line of quality of life improvements, and not purely performance improvements.


*Personal Recommendations*

I recommend you look into Elite Hybrid pads pads for closed headphones, and the Elite Velour pads for open ones. Even so, I go by the motto: "Don't fix it if it ain't broken." Unless you're unhappy with your current pads, or are just curious, I'd personally stick with what I have. If you're looking to upgrade from an uncomfortable set of pads or just need a replacement, I can't think of a better product line than the one provided by Dekoni Audio.


*Likes and Dislikes*

_Pros:_

_Quality_
_Comfort_
_Pad swapping may have positive effects_
_Cons:_

_Pad swapping may have negative effects_

*Final Impressions*



To repeat myself, I think those with closed headphones that want the comfort of velour with the isolation and sound quality retained, should really look into the Elite Hybrid pads Dekoni Audio offers. I can't speak of their other leather/sheepskin pads as I didn't test them, but my choice would always go towards the Hybrid pads. As for Elite Velour pads, consider them for open backed headphones. I think if nothing else, headphones like the DT880 and DT990 would benefit from these pads. In the future, I'll be contacting Dekoni Audio if and when I have some other headphones to try that fall in their line of products to gain a better idea of what Dekoni Audio pads do to headphones they target pads for.



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## canoners

Have you tried Ultrasone PRO 900? People say they have a really good positioning accuracy.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 10, 2020)

No I haven't. I have only posted the ones I have directly tested enough to make a considerable assessment. I did put some bad ones in there for reference.

  Here's good rule of thumb: If a headphone has a spacious soundstage and generally balanced sound signature, it will more than likely perform quite well with Dolby Headphone.

  Dolby Headphone can make even some craptastic headphones sound acceptable for gaming.

  The reason soundstage is GOOD, is because it allows the sound to have some depth, making it a lot easier for gamers to differentiate between front and rear sounds, which is a MAJOR reason why anyone should even go into headphone gaming.


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## Bojamijams

What about moving the speakers with the Dolby Virtual Speaker Shifter to correct this deadzone in the 880s? Would you move them further away since you say that it sounds like its coming from the center? I've read a post on game-fi from a user of the DT 880 600ohm and the essence STX saying to move the rear two speakers closer to the head (which would see counter productive if the issue is that the behind sounds like its in the center)?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 7, 2021)

edit: 2021

I will be using this post to add/edit my upcoming reviews, since I can't seem to utilize the forum's coding in private messages anymore.


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## Bojamijams

So your suggestion would be to move the speaker away or toward the head?


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## Mad Lust Envy

Away from the center. O_O There's like no distance between the rear sounds and the 'central' contact point. Instead of a full circle, it's like someone bit into the bottom. Kinda like Pacman.... that's the shape of the sound I and a few other sorta get with the 880s.


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## tarbo

Nice write up! The "fun" ratings really help to what I am looking for when gaming. The DT990's caught my attention but I'm not sure which one to get. I will be using it on my computer with a Xonar DX 7.1 soundcard (does this thing amp?). I'm really new to anything audio and I'm not sure what ohm is recommended for my setup.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I had the 600ohm 990s. All three need some amping however. A soundcard can amp relative efficient headphones, but I'm not so sure about the three Premium Beyers. Probably best off with the 250ohm as the 32ohm is more expensive and seems to be even harder to drive than the 250ohm...


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## obazavil

amazing review!
   
  i will wait for 6+ months to see if you still own d7000 and pc360 for a possible upgrade 
   
  glad my 2 cans are still among your favs


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## xformulax

great write up Shin!


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## 156219 (Dec 28, 2018)

Delete


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## canoners

Quote: 





maltar7 said:


> Great round up review of headphones and headsets...
> 
> Well done Mad Lust Envy, Keep it up!
> 
> ...


 


  I think he mentioned that Black Ops has a terrible audio somewhere I can't remember. He plays on consoles.


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## obazavil

and.. Mad Lust Envy plays COD on xbox 360 (i'm one of the rare species that only have BO in PS3)


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## mcnoiserdc

I didn't try the AXPRO but I did have the sharkoons and in terms of positioning I didn't find any headphones that do better on dolby headphones than sharkoons 5.1 true surround.
   
  I do agree the DT990 are FUN, and the treble is really great as it gives sparkle to what needs it and helps with details.
  I really liked it for gaming too.


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## dreadful

Great write up.


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## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





canoners said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Start using Ninja Pro and the audio becomes how it should have been in that game.  Most of the top Cevo teams in black ops on pc are using ninja pro for ctf instead of marathon.


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## Eric_C

Somebody needs to sticky this thread.


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## olor1n

Good thread MLE. I'll link to this in my noobie advice thread.


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## RPGWiZaRD

So dolby headphone works that nice for gaming? I may have to give Essence STX a try and compare it to kX Audio driver's surround implementation which is usually very accurate for positional sound. I do love what Dolby Headphone plugin does for foobar2000 for music, adding more depth and bigger soundstage and more dynamic positioning of instruments/singers and can imagine it at least gives better immersion but would be nice if the positional sound works equally well which is very important for me.
   
  With kX Audio drivers I'm like able to tell the exact location of enemies based on where the sound comes from, in Left 4 Dead I could hit zombies hiding behind trees or on another side of a wall based on the direction the noise they make comes from or Unreal Tournament 3 I usually listen to incoming vehicles (around a corner) to shoot them down just as they pass it or locate enemies based on footsteps etc. I haven't yet come across any game with kX Audio drivers that hadn't at least semi-nicely working positional sound with these soundcard drivers.
   
  I've been interesting in comparing ASUS Xonar Essence STX vs Audigy 2 ZS with kX Audio drivers for quite a while though. I'm sure it would bring a very noticable sound quality upgrade but I'm unsure if the software part would be able to replace that of kX Audio. Also it seems to work fine no matter what headphone I use but I'm also like that I want the bass for fun even if it might be a disadvantage (which is especially noticable in FPS games with lots of action going on at the same time).


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## Mad Lust Envy

Okay a few replies.
   
  I play mostly on the 360.
   
  My Mixamp is old gen, and doesn't do voice chat for the PS3. I really only play first party or exclusives on the PS3.
   
  Black Op's audio isn't nearly as good as CoD4 and MW2 (though I'm speaking in terms of directionality and audio cues....not overall quality, as MW2 has a pretty muddy SQ as a whole). And yes, I run Ninja Pro 99.99% of the time.
   
   
   
   
  I plan on going a little more in depth with the good headphones, including their overall sound signature (warm/smooth, bright/aggressive, etc). This will happen sometime later, and I will let you guys know when it is done.
   
   
  Like I mentioned before, to anyone wanting to try any pair of headphones for gaming, a good place to start is with headphones that have a good sized soundstage, and a more balanced sound. If the headphones are too colored, it just won't work well with online gaming. This is why I suggest having two pairs of headphones, one for online gaming, one for when you're enjoying a campaign, or just messing about. That is, unless you get something like the DT990 which pulls off both very well (however, remember the sizzling treble that may bother you).
   
  Closed headphones CAN work well. My suspicions on certain headphones I haven't used that would probably be phenomenal for gaming:
   
  D2000 (fun)
  D5000 (fun)
  Ultrasones with S-Logic on (fun)
  K271 MKII (competitive)
   
  Open:
   
  Sony MDR-F1 (competitive)
  HD800 (competitive)
  K601 (competitive)
  Beyer T1 (fun and competitive)
   
  I distinctly remember people saying the HD600 and HD650 didn't have a very large soundstage in DH mode, so it wasn't as impressive. I can't be for certain.
   
  Also have to note, that warm/smooth headphones are usually claustrophobic is DH mode, so they don't work well.
   
  The brighter it is, the bigger the soundstage seems to be able to project further. Just my impressions.


----------



## Eric_C

+1 on the K271 probably being good for gaming. I demo'd a pair with music once, and I thought it projected a fully immersive soundstage.
   
  Would also like to speculate that the Beyer T5p might be good for gaming too; it has a very nice soundstage, and was only a touch warm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn... I was on the fence between the K271 MKII and DT770/600 back in those days when I didn't have my D7000. Being a Beyer fanboy, I went with the 770/600 but it was too crazy in the bass department. I really wish I'd have gone with the K271 MKII. I hear they isolate extremely well too. I have absolutely no use for it anymore, but I'd LOVE to try them out with Dolby Headphone. I hear they are veeeery well balanced, if a bit bass light, which really sounds like a perfect combo for late night competitive gaming.
   
  Oh yeah, on one of the episode of the show 'No Ordinary Family' (think of it as a live action 'The Incredibles'), a kid was sporting a pair of either the K271 MKII or K272 HD while playing games in his room. XD


----------



## olor1n

Your assessment of the A40 headset matches my recollection of it. It had a tinny, hollow sound and rear audio queues originated from the sides. I remember it having a spacious soundstage but strangely details seemed to all have the same volume so depth was artificial and unreliable.

I've haven't spent much time gaming with my HD650 but I have my MixAmp going into the line in of my Audio-GD Fun to drive the headphone. I'd normally look down on double amping but it works well here once proper levels are set.

Playing a few rounds of BlackOps I felt the HD650 wasn't too bad. Spatial awareness was better as the direction and depth of the sound was rendered with accuracy. For casual gaming it's a neat setup but for more competitive gaming you probably need a tad more emphasis in the treble region to highlight the details and a bigger soundstage to make it more holographic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not too bothered with double amping when the Mixamp is the case. The Mixamp is pretty quiet, so the attached amp shouldn't noticably affect the SQ in a negative way, though I stress that if people are going to attach an amp after the Mixamp to drive the power hungry headphones, PLEASE make sure to use a relatively transparent amp, so it doesn't alter the sound a lot. In my case, the E9 doesn't affect the Mixamp in a bad way, but the E7 being slightly warm did.
   
  Adding an extra amp after the Mixamp does however affect the soundstage a little. I remember adding the E5  after the Mixamp back in the day and made the soundstage a little smaller, though directionality wasn't affected. I didn't play much with the Mixamp+E9 because I just didn't need the E9 as I rarely voice chat, but it didn't do anything that I could see as being an issue.
   
  I need to upgrade my Mixamp. Now that I'm getting the PC360, I am going to be voice chatting a bit more (too lazy to bring out the dealextreme cable a lot, lol), and my Mixamp has that stupid clicking noise (when voice chat is enabled) to let me know there are no batteries inside the Mixamp. There ARE, but the bay is so big, the batteries don't sit in place. I also had the rechargeable battery pack which stopped working within the first month. Astro had some serious issues with their first gen Mixamp.
   
  It was a bad design to begin with. Why the hell would you need batteries if you have to have your audio cables plugged in anyway? So stupid. I just leave my USB attached to power it.


----------



## shamrock134

It would be good if you could get hold of some Pro900s as I'd be interested to see how they compare to the others in your opinion.
   
  For me, Pro900s + Dolby Headphone = aural wallhack


----------



## olor1n

The Fun's amp section is discrete so there are no opamps in that circuit to colour the sound. I had the M50 when I first connected the MixAmp to the Fun and I distinctly recall being impressed by the widening of the soundstage. I haven't tried the HD650 directly from the MixAmp but I'd say it's safe to assume the Fun's amp is beneficial in this instance. I'd test it now but I have the mother of all migrains at the moment.

You'll probably note my use of headphones that aren't traditionally considered good for gaming, but what can I say? I'm a casual gamer now and that past hobby isn't that important to me anymore. It's all about the music now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, it's cool. The DT990 couldn't compare to the AD700 or K701, but it did gaming well enough for me to not NEED the extreme edge the AD700 and K701 gave me.
   
  I case of the M50.... it just doesn't do it for me. I tried it again 2 days ago with CoD4 (which to me has the best audio for the CoD games in terms of clarity and accuracy), and I just didn't find anything good about them...for gaming at least.


----------



## olor1n

No, the M50 isn't very good for gaming, particularly multiplayer competitive. I did play through most of the BlackOps campaign with it and enjoyed the balls to the wall bass presentation immensely.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think it's one of the few headphones that I feel work better in normal stereo mode than DH.
   
  You gotta try the D7000. XD
   
  Man, it makes me grin when I use them for gaming and movies. 
   
  I love it because it doesn't sacrifice the mids, but the bass is stunning. Voices never sounded so accurate with any other headphone to me either. I still can't believe I actually bought these. O_O
   
  I was watching Despicable Me on Blu-Ray last night, and I literally felt like I was Iistening to a sound from the movie theater.


----------



## olor1n

Do you use DH when watching movies?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. To be completely honest, it isn't as impressive as with gaming. In fact rear audio cues are hard to discern with any headphone when watching movies. The benefit of using DH with movies is the sound field you're enveloped in, but it isn't exactly worthwhile over normal stereo. It's just really good crossfeed to me.
   
  I know that when I watch videos, episodes on my PC, I get better directionality in normal stereo vs DH with movies. But it definitely sounds more natural in DH mode.
   
  Just in case people try DH with a normal stereo signal.... umm, it makes the sound worse. Only use DH if you have Dolby Digital 5.1 at least.


----------



## olor1n

Yeah I also use DH when watching movies but only because my MixAmp has a channel imbalance in normal stereo mode. You do sacrifice some bass with DH but it makes up for it with the illusion of space.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts exactly. I think the Mixamp is garbage in stereo mode anyway. If I was gonna watch a movie in stereo mode on my PS3 (or listen to music of it), I'd just go:
   
  PS3 --> Composite cables (for the RCA out) ---> RCA female to 3.5mm male --> Amp (E7 or E9) -- Headphones.
   
  Much better than the crappy 2 channel of the Mixamp. Though it is more to deal with, lol.
   
  The Mixamp is somewhat bass light to begin with.


----------



## olor1n

Yeah for me the MixAmp has a place in my setup strictly as an enhancer for gaming and also for the convenience of using it as somewhat of a preamp to get sound from my consoles to my Audio-GD amp. If the Fun had more than one optical input I'd just go digital stereo straight into it. You're right though, if you have a better amp there is no reason to use the MixAmp in stereo mode.

And yeah, I'd love to hear the D7k but I think I'm done with my headphone setup for now. There are some Dali Ikon 6 floorstanders beckoning to me at the moment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I still really wanna try out the HD650. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it's signature, but it's something I won't be satisfied with until I at least hear it once.
   
  The only headphones I really wanna try out in the future would be the RS1i, 325i, LCD2, and a high end Stax setup. Other than that, I have no desire to listen to anything else. Not that I'd buy any of these...
   
  Maybe a really good pair of IEMs with a sound similar to the D7000 for on the go, but I can't justify spending a lot on IEMs, as I'm not exactly careful with them. My RE0s made me paranoid when I had them. I'm pretty happy with my heavily EQ-ed JVC Marshmallows (EQ-ed the hell out of the high end, for sparkle, lol).


----------



## olor1n

My iem is the Radius "Atomic Bass" lol. It's actually quite decent with the bass reducer eq on the touch. I don't mind it so much as I didn't pay for it and it's of no value so I'm not precious about it. Perfect fit for a knock about iem imo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was gonna buy the Monster Turbines when Amazon had them for $56, but was worried about the 'smooth' top end, and their comfort.
   
  One thing I like about the Marshmallows is the memory foam. It isolates so well, and it's almost impossible for them to fall out unless you really force them out. With other IEMs (including the RE0s), they constantly would fall out of my ear.
   
  I just wish they sounded better. They are very warm/smooth, which is a major turn off, but since EQ them to hell, I pretty much destroy their original sound signature. <_<
   
  I'm not too anal about the SQ when I'm on the go, but I would like something better stock than my Marshmallows.


----------



## olor1n

I have fit issues with my Radius at times but when it's in just right and with the bass reducer eq it reminds me of the M50. :blink: Otherwise it's an overwhelmingly muddy piece of crap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. XD
   
  I just wish JVC would sell the memory foam separately. I'd use them with any IEM. My ex's Galaxy S came with a pair of Samsung IEMs that sound pretty crisp. Very mid and treble centric, but lacking bass. The memory foam of the Marshmallows doesn't look like it'd work with typical IEMs, but it does. The barrel of the Samsung IEM was too big for my taste though. So even though it sounded better than the Marshmallows, it was a bit heavy, and didn't sit well in my ears. I still have it though. It's crazy, when I use them for a few minutes, then go back to the marshmallows, I literally have to EQ the heck out of the bass, as it's waaaaay too boomy. Psychoacoustics for sure. Once I get used to the JVCs again, I bring back the bass to normal levels.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Great thread Mad Lust Envy, another vote for sticky. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the HD650 as I think its better than it perceived gaming performance impression. I have been using the HD650 for FPS gaming for 6months and thought the positioning was better than my previous ultrasonne 780s which I think was in part due to when using the PC Xonar  implementation of DH you have 3 modes 2 of which introduce reverb causing the sound to become too artificial on the closed 780s (tinny \ metallic). The open back helped alleviate this. 
   
  I have jusr bought some D2000 and from inital impressions think could be a winner with DH as they sound suprising airy.
   
  Congrats on the D7000 I hope to upgrade to the 5000s or maybe MarkL mod my 2000s some time down the line. 
   
  If you get some please review on the Denon V3 J-money pads for gaming enhancement as these are looking to be my next purchase. I'm thinking the sound stage enhancements and bass tightening would probably improve their competitive ranking even more?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> It would be good if you could get hold of some Pro900s as I'd be interested to see how they compare to the others in your opinion.
> 
> For me, Pro900s + Dolby Headphone = aural wallhack


 
   
  I own the Ultrasone PRO 900's, along with the AD700 and DT 880. I agree with Envy's ratings of the AD700 being 6/10 fun 10/10 competitive, and the DT 880's being 8/10 fun 8/20 competitive.
   
  That said, my personal rating for the PRO 900 is as follows:
   
*Ultrasone PRO 900 (S-Logic PLUS)*
   
  Fun: 10/10
  Competitive: 9/10
   
  I've explained in another thread that I believe the S-Logic "natural surround sound" label is a little misleading and targeting consumers who are not familiar with soundstage or what it sounds like. To me, the S-Logic is simply technology that makes a wide and immersive soundstage possible for closed headphones in which they are generally not known for, with outstanding separational clarity. The soundstage on the PRO 900 is at _least_ as good at the DT 880's; I have not worn my DT 880's since to bother A/B'ing the subtle differences. I will say that despite the large soundstage, the PRO 900's being closed does not have the same airiness to them as other open headphones do. Perhaps this gives them a more "home theater" feel than a "realistic" one, but I feel that the closed design in this particular case allows the more subtle details (enemy reload sounds, grenade pins, footsteps) to be heard easier than with open headphones.
   
  And since bass is always common topic of concern, the bass on the PRO 900 is an easy 10/10 quantity with a 10/10 quality. I'm not sure if this is a result of the separation due to the S-Logic, but the bass has everything a basshead wants, _without sacrificing the mids or washing down the highs at all_. It's it's own separate monster; the way I describe it is powerful, and _non-invasive_.
   
  That's just my opinion anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, I really wanna try them.  The bass sounds like what I get from the D7000. It sounds separated from the mids and highs... it's a weird sensation, that I've only heard with the DT990 and D7000. Big bass, no bloat, and no smearing.
   
  How's the comfort vs DT880?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





			
				Mad Lust Envy said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Damn, I really wanna try them.  The bass sounds like what I get from the D7000. It sounds separated from the mids and highs... it's a weird sensation, that I've only heard with the DT990 and D7000. Big bass, no bloat, and no smearing.
> 
> How's the comfort vs DT880?


 
   
  The clamp is slightly tighter but has never bothered me. Some people complain about the little pad in the middle of the headband that rests on top of your head creating a little pressure point, but I have found as long as you adjust the headband length accordingly it's a none issue. I don't even notice it's there anymore, and it helps prevent them from sliding forward or backward. They're actually surprisingly light and have a very durable feel to them. I'm just afraid to get fingerprints/scratches on the (very sexy) titanium nameplate. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  They are rather unforgiving on the high end music-wise, but in regards to gaming everything is ultra-crisp and will probably have some of that DT 990 sparkle you like.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, people complain a lot about their comfort. I'm REALLY anal about that sort of the thing. Hell, even the D7000 isn't perfect in comfort for me. It's a bit too loose for my taste.
   
  Companies need to mimic what the Sony F1 and Steelseries Siberia did when it comes to headband adjustment. The K70x is somewhat like that, but not as 'free' as the ones I mentioned.
   
  As for your Pro 900 a 9/10 in competitive. I probably wouldn't agree. The fact that their bass is monstrous will still make you lose focus on the subtle details. I'd say I'd probably believe that they'd be a 7/10 or 8/10 in competitiveness. The 990's bass is super quick, which is why I even gave it an 8. I believe a bass neutral to bass light headphone deserves the 9/10 and 10/10 in competitive gaming. Pure for practical purpose.
   
  Though I'm just assuming so...


----------



## Riku540

My 9/10 competitive is based on the fact that it is superior to my DT 880, but not as good as the AD700 in _competitive_ play. I also have not heard the K70x so my 10/10 competitive experience is limited to the AD700. In any case, I'm sure there are a lot of other factors such as play style that can factor into competitive taste as well.
   
  Chances are your assumptions are right for your tastes. We've never agreed on _everything_ anyways. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Should you ever get a chance to try them though I believe the PRO 900's are a hidden gem that is often overlooked for gaming due to them being closed and the misunderstanding of the S-Logic, and deserves to be on this list for outstanding gaming headphones.


----------



## shamrock134

I can only compare the Pro900 to D7000s and HD600s for gaming. I find the Pro900 to be superior.
   
  It is so easy to follow people through walls by the sound of their footsteps using the Pro900.
   
  Have been accused of haxoring in L4D2 many times due to being able to locate special infected with precision as soon as they spawn.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

I am now using the hd600, and a bit of treble would improve it. I mean it works, but I remember the treble from dt990 is really lacking in this one.
   
  Do you guys know how does the pc360 do treble-wise?


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I'm pretty sure the pc360 is an hd555 with a boom mic.  Which really makes it $200+ price tag outrageous.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually, I believe its a 595 with a mic, tweaked for gaming. I heard people online say the PC360 is slightly better than the stock 595 for gaming.

We'll see.

In any case, I got it for $189.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

The hd555 is a hd595 with a piece of foam behind the driver to handicap it into a lower price range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think we all know that by now. 
   
  What I'm saying is that the PC360 probably doesn't have that piece of foam, making it more of a 595 with a mic +tweaks...
   
  One of my AVS friends has heard the 555 and owns the PC360, and pretty much stated that the PC360 blows the 555 away.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Well I follow a thread on gaming headsets/headphones in another forum where they say the pc360 is the hd555 with mic.
  I have also seen a few reports where they say the hd555 is better than pc360.
   
  Anyway I am looking for a pc360. if I find one at a good price I will pick it up as my hd600 is underpowered by wireless mixamp and drains the battery quickly. I do want to play wirelessly, so I am looking at the pc360
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think we all know that by now.
> 
> What I'm saying is that the PC360 probably doesn't have that piece of foam, making it more of a 595 with a mic +tweaks...
> 
> One of my AVS friends has heard the 555 and owns the PC360, and pretty much stated that the PC360 blows the 555 away.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That would make absolutely no sense for them to have inferior drivers than the HD555. In any case, I trust my AVS friends who are as passionate about this as I am. I trust them implicitly when it comes to this sort of thing. If they say it's a definite improvement over the 555, I believe them 100%.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Nobody said inferior drivers than hd555. If you check the specs on both, the hd555 and pc360 specs are the same.
  I just know people who say hd555 is better than pc360. that is all
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That would make absolutely no sense for them to have inferior drivers than the HD555. In any case, I trust my AVS friends who are as passionate about this as I am. I trust them implicitly when it comes to this sort of thing. If they say it's a definite improvement over the 555, I believe them 100%.


----------



## dub Beatz

I still <3 you. This guide must be sticky'd. It's sticky on my end, because I just creamed.


----------



## olor1n

blutoslice said:


> Great thread Mad Lust Envy, another vote for sticky. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the HD650 as I think its better than it perceived gaming performance impression. I have been using the HD650 for FPS gaming for 6months and thought the positioning was better than my previous ultrasonne 780s which I think was in part due to when using the PC Xonar implementation of DH you have 3 modes 2 of which introduce reverb causing the sound to become too artificial on the closed 780s (tinny \ metallic). The open back helped alleviate this.
> 
> I have jusr bought some D2000 and from inital impressions think could be a winner with DH as they sound suprising airy.
> 
> ...




Did you read my impressions of the HD650 with DH? Like I said it's a good setup for gaming with a balanced sound and very good positioning. For competitive gaming though a headphone with emphasised treble and somewhat thinner bass is a better match for DH.


----------



## RexAeterna

no akg 240s mentioned up there 


 also i see that dang anime chick everywhere....i forgot what software it was from.my friend reccomended to me for vocals for j-core production and so forth.never liked it.
 i tried it before but forgot about it after 5 seconds cause i couldn't read japanese lol...anyways... nice write up there. i don't remember how they sound but only 5.1 headsets i ever tried and was pretty good was turtle beach hpa2 for pc gaming. great sound for gaming and movies but music it was alright.

 i also tried the cyber snipa 5.1 headset. very comfortable cause of the awesome velour pads and decent sound for gaming but horrible for music. i'm just kinda disappointed in myself for not doing research before hand. i could of saved sooo much money and bought nice headphones from the beginning.  atleast my cyber snipa sexy red velour pads can fit on my akg's. they became useful for something.


----------



## obazavil

That girl is from a Japanese software called *Vocaloid*:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid
   
  The chick name is *Hatsune Miku*

   
  and... k702 and dt990 rocks with mixamp


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Few days back and your sig equipment would be a clone of mad lust envy, lol!
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> That girl is from a Japanese software called *Vocaloid*:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid
> 
> The chick name is *Hatsune Miku*
> ...


----------



## rabidgamer

Great thread, just bookmarked it for future use.
   
  Great to hear the creative aurvana live headphones are good for gaming aswell, just bought a pair there. I used to have the Astro's/Mixamp but sold them as I didn't really game as much anymore and this time I've decided to try out the turtle beach ear force DSS, mainly to save some cash as I got it for £40 cheaper than I would have the mixamp.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> Nobody said inferior drivers than hd555. If you check the specs on both, the hd555 and pc360 specs are the same.
> I just know people who say hd555 is better than pc360. that is all
> 
> Quote:
> ...


 

 I'm sure the only difference in sound between the the HD5x5 and the pc360 comes from the boom mic blocking part of the open back on the pc360.  If you give a favorable review for the pc360 I could see myself picking one up just for the mic alone.  I'm sick of not being able to find a decent clip/desktop mic.  They are all trash unless you want to spend an insane amount of money.


----------



## RexAeterna

that's the name! i had a total brain fart there. i can remember faces and stuff better then i can remember names of stuff. i remember tho how hard i tried figuring it out even tho i couldn't read a damn thing. i at least figured out how to make the little vocal charaters speak and wrote random things.
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> That girl is from a Japanese software called *Vocaloid*:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocaloid
> 
> The chick name is *Hatsune Miku*
> ...


----------



## RexAeterna

ain't it also the pc360 is closed compared to open like the 555. i know supposely the drivers are the same but the biggest difference one being opened and one being closed 
  
  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> Few days back and your sig equipment would be a clone of mad lust envy, lol!


 
   
   
  Actually, I blame Mad Lust Envy for my K702 and DT990... I bought them because he spoke wonders of them... I even bought Mad's CALs from him 
  I got first K702 for CoD BO, and are amazing, but lacked immersion for non-FPS, that's when DT990 came to the picture. Thanks god I didn't ask in the D7000 phase otherwise I would be a divorced man...
   
  Bad thing is that every week he gets his paycheck, and then orders new cans online... I can't compete against that
  
  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> I'm sure the only difference in sound between the the HD5x5 and the pc360 comes from the boom mic blocking part of the open back on the pc360.  If you give a favorable review for the pc360 I could see myself picking one up just for the mic alone.  I'm sick of not being able to find a decent clip/desktop mic.  They are all trash unless you want to spend an insane amount of money.


 

 Try this one:
  $2.31 shipped from Taiwan. works wonders (mad also bought them)
  http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7080
   
  bad thing is that they take 1 month to arrive
   
  but... maybe for this year's christmas I will get a dedicated headset. still need to ask forgiveness for all my audio gear


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> ain't it also the pc360 is closed compared to open like the 555. i know supposely the drivers are the same but the biggest difference one being opened and one being closed


 

 The pc350 is the closed version.  The pc360 is open backed like the hd5x5's.


----------



## Eric_C

I'm actually curious to know what amps/decoders there are besides the MixAmp. While it certainly seems great, where I live (Singapore), Astro doesn't ship direct, and there are substantial additional costs involved. 
   
  Does Turtle Beach do comparable DH amps? And what about JVC's SU-DH1?


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I believe the JVC one uses older dolby headphone tech, and the neither the jvc or turtle beach allow you to mix your microphone/voice chat into the audio.  So if you can go without the ability to adjust voice chat volume on the fly then the turtle beach unit should be about the same as the mixamp in terms of sound quality.  What I've just said it was I've been able to gather from reading about the different units getting ready for a purchase.


----------



## tdockweiler

I'm surprised you rated the K701/702 so highly. It's never really impressed me for gaming at all but I don't have the Mixamp and just use a desktop amp. Everything just feels so slightly distant for gaming  with them and it's hard to get into the game when it's like this. Everything else is OK and I don't mind it's huge soundstage. I myself would take the K601 over the K702 for gaming anyday and the K601 is one VERY under-appreciated headphone for gaming. The K702 just has more detail and a better soundstage, but poorer imaging. I always felt that what detail the K601 did offer was more forward sounding. K601 has more forward mids than the K702. I had both for quite awhile. K702 is better for music to me however, but I prefer vocals on the K601, but not enough to keep them.
   
  AKG K240 Studio I 100% suggest to anyone that wants a CHEAP alternative to the HD-555 or the AD700 is a poor fit. It's only $99 or so and semi-open. It's even very good for music.
   
  I don't know if you plan on reviewing other headphones in the future but I'm pretty much blown away by the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 for gaming. Maybe that's why I can't enjoy the K702 for gaming. The details are just so much easier to hear on the AD2000. The sound is just more immersive. In the last few weeks I haven't been able to go without them for gaming. A new cable helped my K702 for gaming, but not enough. When I take off the ATH-AD2000 and put on the K702 for games to compare them, I'm pretty much disgusted. I couldn't stand the lack of bass on the AD700, but love the bass on the ATH-AD2000. It's amount of bass is perfect for everything but bass heavy music.
   
  I also would point out that if anyone found the AD700 to not fit them (like me) the ATH-AD2000 might! They have more clamping force. They're also great for music too obviously. They do have slightly forward mids, which is always something I like for gaming. I have a feeling that the DT-880 might have better imaging, but the ATH-AD2000 will have a better soundstage and mids. I imagine slightly more bass, but I'm not sure.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Wish the ad2000's weren't quit so expensive.  Then more people would have some feedback on using them for gaming.  At this point in my life I won't be getting them for a while do to cost and will be picking up either k70x or dt880's next in the downward spiral of my wallet.  
   
   
  @mad lust envy.
   
  Is all of your input on these headphones based off console gaming?  Perhaps why I'm perfectly satisfied with stereo gaming for positional audio  is because my xfi prelude probably outputs much better analog audio than either console.  Don't know if there's anything to that, but I'd be interested to know if you've used any of these headphones out of a PC with a high quality soundcard for the source.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I'm surprised you rated the K701/702 so highly. It's never really impressed me for gaming at all but I don't have the Mixamp and just use a desktop amp. Everything just feels so slightly distant for gaming  with them and it's hard to get into the game when it's like this. Everything else is OK and I don't mind it's huge soundstage. I myself would take the K601 over the K702 for gaming anyday and the K601 is one VERY under-appreciated headphone for gaming. The K702 just has more detail and a better soundstage, but poorer imaging. I always felt that what detail the K601 did offer was more forward sounding. K601 has more forward mids than the K702. I had both for quite awhile. K702 is better for music to me however, but I prefer vocals on the K601, but not enough to keep them.
> 
> AKG K240 Studio I 100% suggest to anyone that wants a CHEAP alternative to the HD-555 or the AD700 is a poor fit. It's only $99 or so and semi-open. It's even very good for music.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm glad to head the AD2000 is great, but I think the reason why it doesn't get much attention is that the price/performance ratio is very poor. Most of the better gaming headphones are 2-3 times the price of the AD700 and the AD2000 is 6-7 times. That's _way_ too much for a "better" AD700 for me, unless you know where it can be found for cheaper than that?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Is all of your input on these headphones based off console gaming?  Perhaps why I'm perfectly satisfied with stereo gaming for positional audio  is because my xfi prelude probably outputs much better analog audio than either console.  Don't know if there's anything to that, but I'd be interested to know if you've used any of these headphones out of a PC with a high quality soundcard for the source.


 
   
  The output from console to Mixamp is digital. The Mixamp handles the digital to analog conversion and adds the Dolby Headphone DSP the way a good 5.1 soundcard does. The Mixamp is also compatible with PC for those who do not have decent soundcards. The console vs PC thing is irrelevant because using the Mixamp on consoles will sound just as good unless you're gaming in HD-Audio on the PC.
   
  This is something you really have to experience first hand before you can judge it. Once you've tried it you can't go back.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





riku540 said:


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 I know I was just asking if he's compared stereo on console's and PC in terms of positional cues in game.  I've heard dolby headphone on dvd's and I know it can give you 3d sound.  I've used CMSS3d and it does nothing but destroy audio quality.  I was just curious if he could get similar positional audio off a better soundcard on a PC in just stereo mode to a dolby headphone product.  
   
  I have no problem at all discerning directions in stereo mode with the ad700's.  They may have a slight 5-7 o'clock gap in their sound, but on PC you can move your crosshair fast enough to change the direction of the sound to get an idea of where it's coming from.  Good sound is a defender/zone player's best friend in scrims.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My gaming is mostly limited to consoles. I'm not a PC gamer whatsoever. I would never trade off a controller for a mouse and keyboard. No way in hell. I'm old school.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My gaming is mostly limited to consoles. I'm not a PC gamer whatsoever. I would never trade off a controller for a mouse and keyboard. No way in hell. I'm old school.


 
   
  I agree, and before the flamers barge in it's a comfort thing for me. I can only play for about 20 minutes before I get uncomfortable on the PC, and I have fairly good gear. I would much rather be sitting back on a couch feet up in front of a 50-inch than hunched over a desk.
   
  Also PC's are exponentially more expensive and fall behind in a year's time, and there will always be discrepancies in level of skill amongst PC gamers because there is so much variation on performance. Consoles I think are on a much more fair playing field in that aspect.


----------



## misformatt

Great writeup.  I've been searching, albeit more casually, for the perfect set of gaming cans as well.  From my experience, Dolby Headphone seems to work best with non-angled drivers.  My Ultrasone PRO 900 and Sony SA-5000 get funky results when DH is activated.  I agree that DH paired with a K70x is a fantastic solution--it was my go-to setup for quite some time.  Recently though, I have been quite impressed with the PRO 900's that have been mentioned a couple of times in this thread.   Running them straight stereo (without DH) yields the best results by far.  The sound stage isn't as broad as the K70x's (with DH), but the 900's seem to convey location and, particularly, depth exceptionally well.  The powerful bass might be an issue for some, but the 900's do an excellent job of rendering the highs on top of the lows without much sacrifice of either.  I was a bit stunned that these excelled so well in simple stereo mode, especially given the steep competition the K70x with DH provided, but they have ultimately become my gaming can of choice.  Also, FWIW,I think the SA-5000 might have a slight edge over the K70x's in clarity as well, but their sound stage isn't nearly as wide (with or without DH).


----------



## olor1n

I've just tried the HD650 directly from the MixAmp, instead of double amping with the Audio-GD Fun. Firstly, the MixAmp (1st gen running off usb) can drive the HD650 to insane levels (not what I expected). Secondly, the reverberated and echoey quality of DH is seemingly more apparent, heightening the illusion of space. This in turn accentuates the clink of buckles, the crunch of boots in snow, the telltale rustling of a camper and the unmistakable sound of a reload. It's quite impressive. The main issue though is that these sounds are brought so far forward in the mix that it can be difficult to pinpoint depth, especially when all hell is breaking loose. When the Audio-GD Fun is in the chain the rendition of depth is natural and these sound details vary in magnitude rather than being in your direct vicinity.
   
  I only played a few rounds of BlackOps but despite being very rusty and the lowest ranked by far in the lobby, I dominated with MixAmp + Fun combo and then made people quit when I employed just the Mixamp by itself. Good times.


----------



## shamrock134

I might have to try mine in stereo and compare. I usually run mine with DH enabled and channels set to 8 when playing online.
  
  Quote: 





misformatt said:


> I have been quite impressed with the PRO 900's that have been mentioned a couple of times in this thread.   Running them straight stereo (without DH) yields the best results by far.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

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riku540 said:


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 FPS games started on the PC long before they ever reached consoles, so if you're an old school fps player you were using a keyboard only for something like DOOM.  
   
  You are actually quite wrong about PC's being cost prohibitive in comparison to consoles.  Add the 1500 dollars to the cost of your console for that TV.  As well console's used to cost about $500-$600 when they first came out.  A 5 year old $600-700 dollar PC can still easily play games at the same graphical quality as consoles.  You have to remember that most games on console are only in 640p and 30fps with no anti aliasing.  I build a budget PC every 2 years and I recycle old parts like DVD drive, power supply, and hard drives.  Doing this keeps my costs down every time I upgrade.  You also get added freedom in the bargain mods for games, whatever control style you want, whether it be, mouse and keyboard, controllers, steering wheels, or flight sticks.  Games are also cheaper so you save money there.  I guarantee the first time you saw 1080p with 8x AA, 16xAF, and tesselation at 60fps you would never go back to console gaming ever again.  
   
  I do own a PS3 simply to play the Uncharted series which is the only game worth buying a console for.  I'm not flaming people for using consoles, I just don't think most console players ever think about how low the quality of the visuals are in comparison to even a budget gaming PC.


----------



## 129207

Awesome write-up! I use a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer with the ATH-AD700 with a bassboosting amp (Arrow 12HE) inbetween and am extremely satisfied. Would you think the Mixamp would add to my experience? Thanks!


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> You are actually quite wrong about PC's being cost prohibitive in comparison to consoles.  Add the 1500 dollars to the cost of your console for that TV.  As well console's used to cost about $500-$600 when they first came out.  A 5 year old $600-700 dollar PC can still easily play games at the same graphical quality as consoles.  You have to remember that most games on console are only in 640p and 30fps with no anti aliasing.  I build a budget PC every 2 years and I recycle old parts like DVD drive, power supply, and hard drives.  Doing this keeps my costs down every time I upgrade.  You also get added freedom in the bargain mods for games, whatever control style you want, whether it be, mouse and keyboard, controllers, steering wheels, or flight sticks.  Games are also cheaper so you save money there.  I guarantee the first time you saw 1080p with 8x AA, 16xAF, and tesselation at 60fps you would never go back to console gaming ever again.
> 
> I do own a PS3 simply to play the Uncharted series which is the only game worth buying a console for.  I'm not flaming people for using consoles, I just don't think most console players ever think about how low the quality of the visuals are in comparison to even a budget gaming PC.


 

 Comfort > visuals for me any day. I could care less for 2k resolution if my hands, wrists, and back are hurting after 20 minutes. And I am never one to get a console day one... there's no point until a game that interests me comes out. Also the TV I have I've had for many years... so if you look at the cost annually vs. all at once its much more affordable. Ever since I haven't bought any upgrades; only a few games per year.
   
  Let me by clarify by saying I do not believe consoles are better than PC's by any stretch of the means. They're a lifestyle convenience, which fits my needs perfectly. I don't play too many competitive games because gaming for me is relaxing time; and discomfort, stress, and frustration on a PC does not fit the bill for me what so ever.
   
  Any money that could go toward PC upgrades I would much rather spend on headphone upgrades.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

You can just as easily sit in your chair and hook a PC up to your TV and actually get 1080p and all the eye candy too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  There are wireless controllers that work for PC's.  The best part about this is that you then have a media center box hooked up to your TV as well, and a music server!  
   
  I would compare the PC gaming bug to the head-fi bug.  You want the best quality regardless of price, and you will do anything to get it.  I've been hooked on PC gaming ever since my old commodore 64.  I then remember have great times playing Rainbow Six on my 600mhz pentium lol.  How far we have come.


----------



## Riku540

Problem is I like record gameplay, and FRAPS is not very competitive gameplay friendly on low or even medium end systems. I use the HD PVR for this, so I can't have my PC and being used to game if it's being used to record. In any case I do play some PC games with a controller with friends that game exclusively on PC, nothing competitive where it matters.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

While I do love the visuals a PC gives (and I have seen some good high end computer gaming setups), I will never prefer a keyboard and mouse...ever. A video game was made to be played with a controller. A big reason why you won't see me playing Kinect or Wii, or Move or whatever else. If I wanna get up and dance, I'll go to the club. If I wanna act like I'm playing tennis, I'll play Tennis.
   
  Gaming is all about relaxing with a good ol' controller in my hand. Period.


----------



## tdockweiler

I bought a pair of the Sennheiser HD-598's today to test for gaming. I absolutely hate the color of them, but maybe I can get used to it. The graph of them on headroom's website looks HORRIBLE, so I'm hoping the mids are good (maybe slightly forward sounding?). I hope it doesn't have the typical laid-back Sennheiser sound. I've read a lot of things about this headphone and it's signature sounds like something I'll like.
   
  The main reason I posted this is that I called up JR.com and asked them if they had any sales on the HD-598 and they offered it to me for $169.99 I believe. They were at $179.99 but he came down (I didn't ask). I even got next day delivery for an extra $14! I think you will need to call them to get the best price. Amazon and almost everyone else has them for $250. Electronics Expo doesn't have them for $179 anymore with a code.
   
  If anyone is interested, I can report back once I hear them.


----------



## RexAeterna

you can do all that on pc too...also the whole pc thing always falling back in time is a load of crap. yes technology is always advancing but do you always need the latest and greatest? no. it can also be as cheap or cheaper then console gaming if you build your rig and know what parts your looking for and can last well over few years. building is not hard at all. everything is color coordinated so special people can do it too.

 you can play from a coach with controller of choice and most games if not all nowadays being devloped has full support for the 360 controller. i use my 360 controller on my pc or m/k it depends. people think console gaming is always cheaper but the people that say that never include there big ol' hdtv price in the equation. so yea.... 

 i been gaming since the NES days and day of when the first doom hit windows 95 on the  computer so i had experience and love for both console and pc gaming. just do reaserch and ask around. that's all it takes. don't go by what ''he say she say'' thing or mainstream media especially shows like G4. they don't know crap and get paid what to say.
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riku540 said:


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----------



## N0sferatu

I play mostly Rock Band (I play drums IRL).  So I use my electronic kit and have it rigged into RB and jam away with either the HD595 or the D7000.  Both are phenomenal for that experience.  While the D7000 are nicer I typically use the HD595 because I don't want to work up a sweat on the pseudo-leather padding


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> you can do all that on pc too...also the whole pc thing always falling back in time is a load of crap. yes technology is always advancing but do you always need the latest and greatest? no. it can also be as cheap or cheaper then console gaming if you build your rig and know what parts your looking for and can last well over few years. building is not hard at all. everything is color coordinated so special people can do it too.
> 
> you can play from a coach with controller of choice and most games if not all nowadays being devloped has full support for the 360 controller. i use my 360 controller on my pc or m/k it depends. people think console gaming is always cheaper but the people that say that never include there big ol' hdtv price in the equation. so yea....
> 
> i been gaming since the NES days and day of when the first doom hit windows 95 on the  computer so i had experience and love for both console and pc gaming. just do reaserch and ask around. that's all it takes. don't go by what ''he say she say'' thing or mainstream media especially shows like G4. they don't know crap and get paid what to say.


 

 For the price of a GPU you can buy a console. That, and as I stated before, I can't record gameplay if my PC is being used to game itself. And as I also stated, I do use a controller on some PC games.


----------



## rabidgamer

Just bought myself a pair of AD700's for £70, brand new off a website. They were listed as B-Stock and apparently it's because they don't come in their original packaging which if they work fine (they should, can return them anyway) is no issue to me whatsoever.
   
  They cost £110 roughly proper brand new, so if it's just the case of a box then I have no issues! 
   
  Can't wait for them to get here.


----------



## RexAeterna

a gpu can cost less then a console. it comes down to what you want. do you want to play at resolutions 4x of 1080p(1920x1080) with lots of AA and AF everything maxed? or do you just want to do casual gaming at 1080p with decent amount of aa and af and close to everything max settings. there is ton of options. also have to take in mind that even low-budet gpus such as the gtx 260/ ati 5770,ect. is more then 10x the horse-power the ps3 or 360 can offer and are more for then just gaming. you can use it for photo-shopping or 3d rendering like 3ds max,video/audio decoding and encoding,physic caculations and so forth. gpus used in computer rigs are more then just for gaming. 
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


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----------



## obazavil

Peace and love 
   
  I play now only on consoles (ps3), but If I find a game that is amazing on pc, and not available on a console I may start playing there.
   
  I think is just a matter of everyone's preferences.
   
  I have friends that play on PC and everybody agrees that steam is amazing.
   
  The peace of mind of buying a console every 5+years (now 10 yrs cycle) vs gaming pc is a endless debate IMHO


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> For the price of a GPU you can buy a console. That, and as I stated before, I can't record gameplay if my PC is being used to game itself. And as I also stated, I do use a controller on some PC games.


 

 You can buy a video card for about $60-70 bucks that will outpeform anything consoles can do.  You can also easily spend $500 on GPU.  It's all comes down to your gameplay preferences.  You can even hook your PC up to your video capturing device you're using so nothing needs to happen on your CPU.  
   
  The new intel CPU's actually have an onboard GPU on them that can give you the same level of detail and resolution as an xbox 360 for under $200.  That's for both your CPU and GPU.  Sure the visuals won't be that great at less than 720p with NO AA or any other eye candy, but that's what most console games give you anyways.  I remember how pissed I was when I found out that my HD console (ps3) played most games at 640p.  I thought my head was going to explode.  It looks like absolute garbage to my eyes on my 1080p screen.
   
  Also, games are so much cheaper on PC thanks to steam.  I have recently bought just about every star wars game that has been made on PC for under $20.  Assassins creed 2 I got for like 5 bucks.  You have to wait a while for console titles to even get down to $40.  That extra money to buy a game for your console adds up too.  Even brand new a PC game usually costs $10 less than it does on consoles.  blah guess I can stop derailing this great thread and go back and drop bombs on black ops.


----------



## Riku540

That's great and all guys, but I already know this and I keep stressing that visuals are not the most important thing for me. regardless of price of hardware and games, it still doesn't change the fact that I still need my PC to be free in order to record, and that I already use my PC occasionally the way you guys are suggesting. At the end of the day consoles are still cheaper, and you underestimate how many people do not spend money or even own an PC capable of gaming at all. I am the only one out of my friends that has a PC that can run games on playable settings that have been released in the past 3-4 years, but they own consoles. Do you really think I am supposed to convince each and every one of them to upgrade their PC's instead? Or that I even care? No.
   
  I'm glad PC gaming fits your needs. Consoles, fit mine for what _*I*_ like and use it for. Why can't we respectfully disagree, instead of you trying to make me convert to what _*you*_ think is best?


----------



## RexAeterna

it's cool. i still do still prefer my old super metroid on the snes or Zelda:link to the past to lot of today releases. it is matter of preference and naw you don't have to go to everyone you know and be like ''you have to upgrade''. just if they ever ask just be honest and let them know to the best of your knowledge suggest something what you personally feel that'll be the best option within their budget.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My gaming is mostly limited to consoles. I'm not a PC gamer whatsoever. I would never trade off a controller for a mouse and keyboard. No way in hell. I'm old school.


 
   
  MLE, Y U SO BAD?


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> That's great and all guys, but I already know this and I keep stressing that visuals are not the most important thing for me. regardless of price of hardware and games, it still doesn't change the fact that I still need my PC to be free in order to record, and that I already use my PC occasionally the way you guys are suggesting. At the end of the day consoles are still cheaper, and you underestimate how many people do not spend money or even own an PC capable of gaming at all. I am the only one out of my friends that has a PC that can run games on playable settings that have been released in the past 3-4 years, but they own consoles. Do you really think I am supposed to convince each and every one of them to upgrade their PC's instead? Or that I even care? No.
> 
> I'm glad PC gaming fits your needs. Consoles, fit mine for what _*I*_ like and use it for. Why can't we respectfully disagree, instead of you trying to make me convert to what _*you*_ think is best?


 

 Already said I was done.  I'm not trying to convert anyone I just don't think people understand the the actual cost of PC gaming versus the perceived cost, and are missing out on a great platform to play games on because they think it is too expensive.  
   
  I'm not trying to be argumentative, but informative.  I personally find it weird that everyone in this thread is here because they want the absolute best audio quality they can possible get for games, and at the same time do not care about the visual fidelity of said games.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Already said I was done.  I'm not trying to convert anyone I just don't think people understand the the actual cost of PC gaming versus the perceived cost, and are missing out on a great platform to play games on because they think it is too expensive.


 

 But that's just it. I _*do*_ play games on the PC. I just prefer console most of the time, for the said reasons.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> I personally find it weird that everyone in this thread is here because they want the absolute best audio quality they can possible get for games, and at the same time do not care about the visual fidelity of said games.


 

 Not a fair statement. What if the games in question are Halo or Killzone? And what if we want to play single-player, non-FPS games with great audio, like Uncharted (as I believe you play too)?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Ding! We have a winner! Shoot... I'm gonna go play LittleBigPlanet 2 with Dolby Headphone just to say I did.
   
  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> I'm not trying to be argumentative, but informative.  I personally find it weird that everyone in this thread is here because they want the absolute best audio quality they can possible get for games, and at the same time do not care about the visual fidelity of said games.


 

 Your information is appreciated. I find it strange though that the person concerned about the _best possible_ audio and video quality is the same person who is "perfectly fine" gaming competitively in _stereo_? Or am I mistaken?


----------



## iHasCake

all i know is this thread just adds to my overall confusion on deciding what to buy for gaming/movies...thanks.
   
  lol


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> all i know is this thread just adds to my overall confusion on deciding what to buy for gaming/movies...thanks.
> 
> lol


 


  Why.


----------



## misformatt

> Your information is appreciated. I find it strange though that the person concerned about the _best possible_ audio and video quality is the same person who is "perfectly fine" gaming competitively in _stereo_? Or am I mistaken?


 
   
  Do you use your PRO 900's with Dolby Headphone?  I tried DH with mine, but the results were inconsistent and not as precise as straight stereo.  I've only tried it with a couple of PC fps (Bad Company 2 and Team Fortress 2), but I wasn't impressed with the precision of the sound stage/placement.  I chalked it up to the offset drivers, but others have reported positive results with the pairing.  I'm just curious what your experience (and that of others) has been with the pairing.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Riku540* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Your information is appreciated. I find it strange though that the person concerned about the _best possible_ audio and video quality is the same person who is "perfectly fine" gaming competitively in _stereo_? Or am I mistaken?


 

 Does dolby headphone sound better than stereo?  Absolutely not.  Does it provide better positional audio.  Probably.  
   
  Any time you subject your audio to some sort of equalizer or digital processing it degrades from the original source.  I use my soundcard in audio creation mode even when I'm gaming, and I refuse to use CMSS3d because it sounds horrible.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Does dolby headphone sound better than stereo?  Absolutely not.  Does it provide better positional audio.  Probably.
> 
> Any time you subject your audio to some sort of equalizer or digital processing it degrades from the original source.  I use my soundcard in audio creation mode even when I'm gaming, and I refuse to use CMSS3d because it sounds horrible.


 
   
  Well I think by quality in the _competitive_ sense, positional accuracy trumps stereo reproduction and clarity anyday... I wouldn't be surprised if you were the only one in this thread who isn't using Dolby Headphone. If it means anything to you, the Mixamp sounds nothing like the CMSS3d you mentioned.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, I noticed my AX720s, which are strictly for the xbox (Cheaper than the mixamp, and it's the whole shebang) sound so much different than CMSS3D. As much as I love CMSS3D for its superb accuracy, DH just seems to be more fun to listen to. Like it went from playing the game, to being in a movie like replication of the game in real life... If that makes any sense.


----------



## Eric_C

Just for the record, I hate you guys for making me want to get a MixAmp.


----------



## Riku540

I'm sure your wallet does too, but _you_ won't once it arrives!


----------



## Kelvs

Can any pls tell me how good the Siberia V2's are? ty


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





misformatt said:


> Do you use your PRO 900's with Dolby Headphone?  I tried DH with mine, but the results were inconsistent and not as precise as straight stereo.  I've only tried it with a couple of PC fps (Bad Company 2 and Team Fortress 2), but I wasn't impressed with the precision of the sound stage/placement.  I chalked it up to the offset drivers, but others have reported positive results with the pairing.  I'm just curious what your experience (and that of others) has been with the pairing.


 


  I played a game of L4D2 last night with my Pro900s and DH off and output set to stereo. I didn't like it at all! After a couple of minutes I had to switch it back to 8ch + DH.
   
  I felt like I had completely lost my directional awareness in stereo mode!


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





misformatt said:


> Do you use your PRO 900's with Dolby Headphone?  I tried DH with mine, but the results were inconsistent and not as precise as straight stereo.  I've only tried it with a couple of PC fps (Bad Company 2 and Team Fortress 2), but I wasn't impressed with the precision of the sound stage/placement.  I chalked it up to the offset drivers, but others have reported positive results with the pairing.  I'm just curious what your experience (and that of others) has been with the pairing.


 

 I use them with the Astro Mixamp, and the results are phenominal. If anything the offset drivers work in _favor_ of this combo. Sure it lacks the airiness of an open headphone, but all the space is there. I think it highly depends on what kind of virtual surround you are using; I have heard terrible things about a lot of PC virtual surround but I think it completely depends on the sound card. My sound card isn't that great so I just use the Mixamp for everything, and it does an excellent job.


----------



## draven5494

I was looking at getting the Mixamp as well, but my wife bought me the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS for Christmas (it was in my Amazon wish list  ) and I have been pleasantly surprised with the audio from this thing.  I have used it with my PS3 and I just hooked it up to the optical out on my Auzentech Forte and enabled DD Live in the settings and it actually sounds good.  I get a great sense of a surround-sound type space when using it.  I actually switch between that and CMSS3D and I don't know which I like better at this point.  It's quite good.
   
  My setup is as follows:
   
  Auzentech Forte Digital Out (DD Live) --> Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS --> RCA splitter --> Matrix M-Stage --> Beyer DT880/600s
   
  Just thought I would throw my two cents in for those looking for a somewhat cheaper alternative to the mixamp.


----------



## rabidgamer

I'm trying to figure out if theres a way to use a mic on the xbox 360 with the ear force DSS, I got my Creative Aurvana Live headphones today and so far my only option is to strap the xbox 360 one around my neck, it's fine but wouldn't mind modding a mic onto the side of the headphones or something and getting it going, I know you can with the mixamp but I went the cheaper route lol.
   
  As for the headphones, I think they are great imo, I finished top of the table like 10 - 15 times (HC S&D) so there doing something right, can hear footsteps well and know where the are 100% of the time.
   
  My AD700 Bstocks just got posted there, so will get them tomorrow, can't wait to try them out!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only headsets that will allow voice chat on the DSS are the Turtle Beach headsets.
   
  For everything else, you're screwed unless you buy the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer.
   
  http://steelseries.com/products/consoles/steelseries-spectrum-audio-mixer-xb
   
  For the price of the DSS and the Audio Mixer, you could've just gotten the Mixamp or AX720. The DSS + Audio Mixer is a cluttered mess.


----------



## RexAeterna

stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.

 Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
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----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Disagree wholeheartedly. Stereo doesn't come close to the kind of directional cues DH/HT gives. Sure you get easier right/left, but front and back are nowhere near... it's not even close... but to each their own.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





			
				RexAeterna said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.
> 
> Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.


 
   
  Um... You do realize this _whole thread_ is based on Dolby Headphone? Have you even tried a good virtual surround setup? All the information in this thread; especially MLE's impressions is based on how well these headphones synergize with Dolby Headphone; the experience is not at all the same as stereo.
   
  Seriously guys, this is something you _have to try_ before making all your claims to stereo gaming...


----------



## obazavil

you are still in time for returning them  and then get a mixamp hehehe 
   
  Quote: 





draven5494 said:


> I was looking at getting the Mixamp as well, but my wife bought me the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS for Christmas (it was in my Amazon wish list  ) and I have been pleasantly surprised with the audio from this thing.  I have used it with my PS3 and I just hooked it up to the optical out on my Auzentech Forte and enabled DD Live in the settings and it actually sounds good.  I get a great sense of a surround-sound type space when using it.  I actually switch between that and CMSS3D and I don't know which I like better at this point.  It's quite good.


----------



## RexAeterna

i knew that. i was just responding to what you wrote asking about when it comes to gaming why do people use stereo still for gaming. i must of read it wrong and i apologize. i have myself used Direct sound,doby headphone,dobly pro-logic and creative's EAX. i just find plain analog stereo works just as well.
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> Um... You do realize this _whole thread_ is based on Dolby Headphone? Have you even tried a good virtual surround setup? All the information in this thread; especially MLE's impressions is based on how well these headphones synergize with Dolby Headphone; the experience is not at all the same as stereo.
> 
> Seriously guys, this is something you _have to try_ before making all your claims to stereo gaming...


----------



## misformatt

Quote: 





rexaeterna said:


> stereo is still way to go. if ever listen to speakers with great soundstage and imagery you'll personally think ''Why was HT ever created?'' and feel it was a gimmick from the get-go. stereo imagery is still best way to detect exact precision of sound cues. even playing in stereo on my speakers with no type of digital processing like fear 2 for example. i can hear the each shell that pops out the gun hit the floor behind me and bounce with exact precision or enemy in the distance behind a wall to my left. i can even hear a helicopter past by my head in stereo as well. also if you play games with lot of environmental sounds like BFBC2 or LP2 it can be exciting to be able to hear mosquitoes pass by your ear or a bird chirping in the distance behind you.
> 
> Yes,what i just described is all stereo. 2-channels that is processing soundfield  in full 360 degrees. same goes for headphones.


 
  I can see where this might be the case with headphones, or a 2-speaker stereo setup with sound processing enabled (Pro-Logic for example), but having a full blown 5.1 or 7.1 setup running on 6 or 8 discrete channels ( Dolby Digital/DTS) is not a gimmick in the slightest.  Where stereo only mimics a 3d sound field, a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system actually reproduces one.


----------



## misformatt

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've got an HT-Omega Claro Halo with upgraded opamps on my PC.  I would assume its Dolby Headphone algorithm is the same as that of the Mixamp, but there could be some native tweaks on either unit I suppose.  I'll give DH another shot on my PRO 900s and report back.


----------



## draven5494

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only headsets that will allow voice chat on the DSS are the Turtle Beach headsets.
> 
> For everything else, you're screwed unless you buy the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer.
> 
> ...


 

 Yep, that's the drawback of the Ear Force DSS.  For me however, that isn't an issue.  If I use the DSS with my PC, I just use my normal clip mic.  If I use it with my PS3, I use my bluetooth headset as my mic. 
   
  It's not as fully featured as the Mixamp, but I really like the sound quality of the DSS and that is most important to me.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





misformatt said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.  
   
  Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation. 
   
  Hopefully some of that actually made sense.


----------



## draven5494

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I agree!  Binaural is the way to go.  To someone like me, who is obsessed with gaming audio, that would be the holy grail.  A completely seamless, 3D soundscape that mimics the way real sound waves hit your ears.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





draven5494 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think they're getting there with the different types of sound occlusion they are putting into games.  Really nothing can touch Bad Company 2 in terms of sound quality.  That game just sounds good.  Black ops in comparison sounds like it's coming from a tin can.  Developers need to take note of what DICE did and get with the program.


----------



## misformatt

> Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.  What 7.1/5.1 setups do is allow sounds to reach your ears at different times so your brain tells you which direction it is coming from.  Dolby Headphone uses many different calculations to simulate what your brain hears when sound arrives at different times.  Game audio isn't really the best, but some games are perfectly fine in stereo only in terms of how they relay distance and direction to your brain.
> Me personally I'm ready for some binaural games to get released.  That would increase immersion far more than any graphical advances that have come about this console generation.  Graphical improvements are pretty much at an end for PC and console until consoles get new hardware, so I think improving audio is the way to milk the last bit of advancement out of this console generation.
> 
> Hopefully some of that actually made sense.


 
  I haven't heard the top-tier surround emulators (Smyth Realiser, Beyer Headzone), but Dolby Headphone doesn't come close to conveying the same sense of directionality as a full 5.1 speaker setup, personally speaking of course.  I've heard some great stereo setups, but none that gave me the sensation that sound was actually being emitted directly behind or beside me.  I would think headphones would have an advantage over a two-speaker setup when it came to this, as they have the ability to fire at your entire ear.  And yes, of course we only have two ears, but that doesn't mean two speakers alone will be able to accurately convey the distance and complexity of 8 discrete channels of audio.  Dolby Headphone does an admirable job of mimicking that timing, but it certainly does not trump a discrete system.  In addition, high-end systems like the Smyth and Beyer I mentioned use head tracking to simulate where the sound should be directed towards given changes in your head positioning.  Perhaps that is the greatest advantage those sets have in simulating a full blown surround setup? 
   
  Binaural games would rock my socks, though.


----------



## Scytus

I've pretty much made my conclusion for the HFI-580's but I felt I should probably also ask the opinions in a thread full of head-fi gamers x]
   
  I'm looking for gaming headphones, with a great soundstage/3dpositioning (course), clear mids/highs, good amount of punchy/fun bass, can be driven well unamped and with good sound isolation/no sound leaks.
  For all these purposes, the PRO900 seemingly fit them well, however they are reported to leak sounds just as the PRO550's do (which I've had experience with, and leaked far too much).. That is unless they can be modded to avoid sound leaks without affecting quality, I will definitely have to go with another choice as the leak consideration for me is more critical than most users.
   
  The only other headphones I've been considering is the Denon D1100's, and possibly the AKG 271MK2 (If they can be modded for great bass, as I recently read they may be able to)
   
  Was hoping to get some gamer opinions x]


----------



## Riku540

I can confirm that the PRO 900's leak a bit when listening to music loud, however since gaming is a bit different I'm not sure how sound leaks in comparison. I should have some friends over in the next few days and I'll do some tests.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Mad Lust Envy.  I command you to test the hd650's out with dolby headphone.  Now.


----------



## pp312

Command! Wow, I love commands; they excite my dictatorial spirit.


----------



## pp312

I saw someone with 7.1 ears in Star Trek Voyager once.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *VulgarDisplay*
> 
> Stereo doesn't have to mimic 3d sound fields.  You hear in stereo.  You have 2 ears not 7.1 ears.


----------



## calpis

I thought it was a good idea to pick up the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer but boy was I wrong. There was A LOT of hum when I plugged in the USB for the power. I tried different sources and different USB power sources but still got static/hum. Sure, you won't notice it when the game audio is being blasted but that wasn't the reason I bought it for, in dead silence that hum will over power anything you're actually listening for i.e. footsteps. It's like they forgot to add shielding to the cable or something. I will be returning it this weekend. One thing I did like about it was that the game and voice volume dials are seperate whereas on the mixamp is just volume and cross fader.


----------



## iHasCake

sorry if this was asked before.
   
  Mad Lust, do you have your mixamp connected to your e7/e9 or you use them separately?


----------



## tdockweiler

I got the HD-598 in today and burned them in for about 3 hours while I was out. Probably no point, but I did anyway. For gaming I'm quite impressed! I'd say for gaming they're better than the K240 Studio, K702 and my DJ100. I found this interesting test in one of my games.. one of the NPCs was carrying a torch around and anytime I moved they would follow me. On my K702 no matter how close it was it sounded about twice as far away as any other headphone. Not accurate at all for some reason. On the HD-598 I did some silly test where I'd close my eyes and walk around and guess where the torch was and how close it was. Nearly every time I could pinpoint the exact location so easily. Not a big deal, but I found this interesting. It's far easier to figure how how close everything is compared to other headphones. The soundstage seems nearly as good as the HD-600, but I no longer have the HD-600. The soundstage on the HD-555 is so bad in comparison to the new HD-598.
   
  Imaging isn't as good as my DJ100, but pretty close. Level of detail is also lower on the HD-598 by far compared to the DJ100, but still pretty good. The level of detail compared to other Sennheiser's I've tried is pretty good, it seems much higher. As it is right now, it doesn't feel like the typical Sennheiser headphone at all. It doesn't feel "laid back" in any way and it doesn't seem to have that "veil". For those that normally dislike Sennheiser stuff, this might be a good one to try. Maybe to give them a second chance like I did. Still love the HD-600 though. I have a feeling the HD-598 would be even better than the HD-600 for gaming.
   
  I was also surprised at how much brighter it is than any of the other Sennheiser headphones i've had. Brightly mastered recordings that normally are annoying to my ears still sound bad on the HD-598 and they don't try to "fix" it, which is nice. The HD-600 I had seemed to try and do that sometimes by making the songs easier on the ears.
   
  I don't feel as if these are bass light and I don't get why people say that. The amount of bass is fine for me. Mids seems very good and very, very slightly forward. I checked the frequency graph on headroom's site and it doesn't look like what my ears hear. It's a bit strange. If I recall it made the headphones look like they had recessed upper mids?!
   
  Obviously they can't even remotely compare to the ATH-AD2000, but that's too be expected. The mids are MUCH more forward (colored) on the ATH-AD2000, which is nice for gaming and it doesn't get old. Level of details is much higher and footsteps are so much easier to hear. Soundstage is also much larger, but I think the imaging may be very slightly worse on the ATH-AD2000. Maybe not and I'd have to test that.
   
  For those that are on a budget, I'd seriously suggest the HD-598 for gaming. For competitive gaming the AD700 might be better, but I'm not sure. HD-598 would probably be better for those that want a more portable headphone that's also very good for music.
   
  Still hate the color. It reminds me of those old yellow stained computers you'd see when too much air and sunlight after years and years. Turned the white into an ugly yellowish white.  The color is just plain awful to me. Who wants a headphone to look like the interior of a car? Not me. They should offer them in black. I also don't understand why they don't have a 3.55m jack instead. Seems like that's more common these days.
   
  Definitely not worth the full $250 I think. Not a chance. Especially considering I'm a bit worried about the build quality. Even the cable feels cheap. I got them for $175, so it's not so bad. I think they're worth that. Comfort is also pretty good, but nothing special. There is a bit of clamping force, even for my small head.
   
  They're even very good for music. I prefer my DJ100 for most music and it's more portable and has more bass. The HD-598 does do many things a lot better due to it's open design. I've found the 598 not all that easy to drive. On my Ipod Touch I had to set the volume to nearly 90-95%. I almost always use a desktop amp though. My KRK, DJ100 and ATH-AD2000 have far more detail for sure, but it's not a big deal. I just don't think you'll be picking up any recording hiss on the HD-598, but might be a plus! I actually wasn't sure if the HD-598 was a keeper, but I do think it is for sure.
   
  I still think that for gamers that want the absolute best gaming headphone regardless of price, the ATH-AD2000 is worth every penny, but I myself would never pay more than $550 for a new pair. I believe they're $400-$475 used.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Just be careful with that hd598 because there are already a couple people on head-fi complaining that the hd5x5 crack is back with a vengeance in the hd5x8 series.  
   
  Still no one that's used dolby headphone with the hd650?  I ask because I'm pretty sure the hd650 is my perfect music headphone and I want to get one sometime.


----------



## obazavil

Not MLE, but I know he used E9 connected after mixamp when he had k702 and dt990, and improved the sound somehow 
   
  He bought PC360 coz he is lazy to move amps 
  
  Quote: 





			
				VulgarDisplay said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Just be careful with that hd598 because there are already a couple people on head-fi complaining that the hd5x5 crack is back with a vengeance in the hd5x8 series.
> 
> Still no one that's used dolby headphone with the hd650?  I ask because I'm pretty sure the hd650 is my perfect music headphone and I want to get one sometime.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> sorry if this was asked before.
> 
> Mad Lust, do you have your mixamp connected to your e7/e9 or you use them separately?


 


  I don't see why he would have the E7 in that chain--it's designed to function only as a DAC, an ability that can't be tapped into given that MixAmp has no USB out (and is a DAC already).


----------



## Riku540

He used it with the E9, because he had DT 990 600 ohm at the time. When he got his D7000's, he sold the DT 990 and went for the 598 and now the PC360 just for gaming.


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Just be careful with that hd598 because there are already a couple people on head-fi complaining that the hd5x5 crack is back with a vengeance in the hd5x8 series.
> 
> *Still no one that's used dolby headphone with the hd650?*  I ask because I'm pretty sure the hd650 is my perfect music headphone and I want to get one sometime.


 
   
  I have and I've also posted my impressions here about it. Do you have me on your ignore list (rhetorical I know)?
  
  Here's what I posted on page 6 but there are other impressions prior:
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by me /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I've just tried the HD650 directly from the MixAmp, instead of double amping with the Audio-GD Fun. Firstly, the MixAmp (1st gen running off usb) can drive the HD650 to insane levels (not what I expected). Secondly, the reverberated and echoey quality of DH is seemingly more apparent, heightening the illusion of space. This in turn accentuates the clink of buckles, the crunch of boots in snow, the telltale rustling of a camper and the unmistakable sound of a reload. It's quite impressive. The main issue though is that these sounds are brought so far forward in the mix that it can be difficult to pinpoint depth, especially when all hell is breaking loose. When the Audio-GD Fun is in the chain the rendition of depth is natural and these sound details vary in magnitude rather than being in your direct vicinity.
> 
> I only played a few rounds of BlackOps but despite being very rusty and the lowest ranked by far in the lobby, I dominated with MixAmp + Fun combo and then made people quit when I employed just the Mixamp by itself. Good times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for the HD598, I agree that they aren't exactly easy to drive. Even when listening to music off the E9, they need high gain and about the same volume level as the K701 I had. Maybe just a smidge easier to drive, at least volume wise. I didn't test them out with voice chat on the Mixamp, but I would be cautious about how loud they could get with the Mixamp with moderate voice chat volumes.

Though I didn't get more than 5 minutes to test them, the PC360 is definitely inferior to the HD598 in terms of overall clarity. They definitely sound like Senns... unlike the abnormally clear HD598.



eric_c said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Of course I didn't use the E7. The E7 just stays docked to my E9 regardless. 

The E9 after the Mixamp works very well. The only perceived difference to the sound is an altered soundstage. Directionality and SQ aren't negatively affected to my ears. That's why I tell people that if they add an amp to the Mixamp, a neutral one like the E9 is ideal.


----------



## rabidgamer

Ah well, there's downsides to everything I guess. My AD700 will be getting delivered today so I have those to look forward too 
   
  As far as a mic goes, I tried it out with the creatives yesterday and the xbl mic around my neck/voice chat coming through my headphones worked fine I guess, it isn't ideal but if it saves me £40 then I'll make do.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only headsets that will allow voice chat on the DSS are the Turtle Beach headsets.
> 
> For everything else, you're screwed unless you buy the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No worries. The official headset around the neck works fine. You just can't hear your own voice and the game chat is more mixed up with game audio, but it ain't too bad.

As for the AD700, they will make a nice compliment to the Creatives. I would use the AD700 strictly for online, and the Creatives for fun non-competitive gaming.

As for the audio mixer, there are quite a few people complaining that it has a hum that is pretty noticeable and annoying. I would skip it.


----------



## Red Haze

I don't know why you have so many open phones listed, what about those who go to LAN's and need isolation to focus? Sennheiser's PC series really needs a mention too.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





red haze said:


> I don't know why you have so many open phones listed, what about those who go to LAN's and need isolation to focus? Sennheiser's PC series really needs a mention too.


 
   
  Um...
   
  M50
 DT 770
 Creative Aurvana Live!
 RE0
  D7000
 HD280 Pro
 HD201
   
  What list are _you_ looking at?...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is an OPEN headset, so mentioning them for closed is....wrong? I haven't tried nor have any desire to try the PC350.

Other closed....

AX720
PX21
A40
Z2
Ax Pro
Philips SHP2500

Most headSETS I have tested were closed.

Like I said before, open tends to yield much better results with Dolby Headphone due to larger soundstage, allowing for easier front and back directional cues.

This thread is based off my own experiences, not a general guide. I won't add anything I haven't personally used.

Another thing... I know open headphones like the AD700, HD595 and HPX are popular at LANs... so...


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Just be careful with that hd598 because there are already a couple people on head-fi complaining that the hd5x5 crack is back with a vengeance in the hd5x8 series.
> 
> *Still no one that's used dolby headphone with the hd650?  *I ask because I'm pretty sure the hd650 is my perfect music headphone and I want to get one sometime.


 


  I have 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (Asus Xonar DX and now STX > Matrix M-Stage > HD650) for about a year, and I think its a solid combination with dolby headphone. I mainly play Bad Company 2 & L4D and the positioning is great and thier open back helps make the DH sound less artificial and better spacing. Less could be said for my prior HFI-780 which is a good elctronic music Can but did not sound that great with the DH modes with added reverb. I think S-logic might be better for stereo with dolby pro logic or just feel different from person to person.
   
  The Xonar soundcard family has the added bonus of a 7.1 speak shifter allowing for the adjustment of sound direction and volume from each channel allowing for positional fine tune best used for getting the rear sounds to match the fronts. You can pickup the new Xonar DG for peanuts and would reccoment it to anyone who think CMSS3D does not cut it.
   
  Having said that overall I prefer my new Denon AHD2000 and thus selling My HD650 and my Xonar DX. PM me if interested.


----------



## wizia

I have a pair of DT880s mixed with a X-Fi and I'm considering getting something different. I do a lot of competitive gaming on PC and the AKG K701 are tempting. Do you think they are worth the money having a pair of Beyers?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sold my DT880 for the K701. Competitive-wise, the K701 trumps the DT880s, IMHO. However, if you have absolutely no problem discerning front/rear sounds with the 880s, I find the 880s to be a better overall headphone than the K701. I ONLY traded the 880s because of that lack of rear cues for my ears. This is one instance where YMMV.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Edited the first post with this info.
   
   
   
  PC360 = JUST GET IT NOW.

 Seriously, if you want a headset, don't even think twice. Get it. NAO. Easily the best headset I have heard. THE BEST.
  
   
   
  Clarity? Check. 8/10

 It lags behind the AD700, K70x, and HD598, but for gaming, it is NO slouch. Trust me, you won't need it any more clear than it is. I won every single match in CoD4. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I can say that it COULD be clearer as a whole, but no other headSET comes close.
  
   
   
   
   
  Balance? Check. 9/10

 There is no part of the audio spectrum that I felt was emphasized over the rest. Well balanced. That's all I can say. Treble is neither smooth, nor sparkly. It sounded neutral. Fantastic.
  
   
   
   
  Soundstage? Check. 8.5/10

 Obviously lagging behind the monsters that are the K70x and AD700, but is indeed no slouch. I'd say it has a bigger soundstage than the DT990. Fantastic sense of space and airiness.
  
   
   
   
  Directional Cues? Check. 9.5/10

 What can I say? This may actually be as good as the best when it comes to overall directionality. Trust me when I say that I could EASILY tell where everyone was around me.

  
   
   
   
  Easy to discern front and back? Check! 10/10

 Perhaps the most important aspect of Dolby Headphone, and the PC360 got it down masterfully.
  
   
   
   
   
   
  This is my first hour's impression.

 If you're in the market for a headSET, this should be the top priority.

 If you're looking for clarity, I'd say that the others mentioned have it beat, but the PC360 does a fine job with all the clarity it gives.
  
   
   
   
   
   
  Unless there is a dramatic change:

 Fun: 6.5/10 (well balanced, but not really having the punch in bass needed for the immersion that others give)

 Competitive: 9.5/10 (I highly doubt you'll be complaining about anything as you're precisely locating anything and everything around you).

  
   
  If these indeed sound exactly the same as the 595 (or modded 555s), then unless you really need a mic and volume control all in one package, you'll be saving money by going with the 555's and modding them for the 595 sound and attach a mic. However, the PC360 can be had for around $180, and brings everything in one very attractive package. I can't say anything about the 555 and 595, but the PC360 is definitely a gaming beast.
  __________________


----------



## wizia

Do you use the Mixamp while you're gaming on PC? If you only use it with consoles, what is your computer's source?
   
  BTW, I didn't say anything before but great guide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't game on PC. In case anyon missed it, the PC360 impression is on the previous page as well as the opening post.
   
  PC360 = FANTASTIC
   
  HD598 vs. PC360

 HD598 wins. Hands down. Now if only they made a headset based off the HD598...then the PC360 would be obsolete. Until then, the PC360 is definitely good enough as a headset.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Having both the AD700 and DT880, I do feel the DT880 is better for gaming. Soundstage width is not everything in a gaming headphone. What's much more important is imaging within the soundstage. the AD700 is the much better value out of the two, that cannot be argued, but the DT880 images better in a smaller sized soundstage. It's imaging first, then soundstage width.


----------



## Styles

[size=9pt]Good thread MLE![/size]
   
  [size=9pt]I'm new here but found my way to the site looking for the next level in headphone audio for Xbox gaming.  Here is my path that I took and ended up at now: [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]-Started with Tritton AX360 (blue) - sounded great to me at the time as it was my first DD surround headset, they broke and I fixed and re-sold them[/size]
  [size=9pt]Turttlebeach X4- They were great because they are wireless but had less sound than the Tritton.  Best feature in my opinion is that your voice comes through the headphones as well, like a telephone, so that you don't find yourself yelling  [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]-Turtlebeach X41 - Sold the X4's because they were IR and I bought a plasma TV and it interfered with the IR signal. The X4's are RF. Still the same as far as sound from the X4 though they are sold with a selling feature of 7.1 DDSS. Xbox only outputs 5.1 so the 7.1 is garbage as far as Turtlebeach is trying to sell them to people for that.  I would say that Turtlebeach's are fun and good for people that want a wireless set up and aren't going to be too picky about the sound. If you're a gamer of the next level and compete a little then TB's aren't going to cut it.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Now the end and a set up I hope you can try and compare to the rest in your review here. [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]-Astro Mixamp (wired not the new 5.8 wireless)[/size]
  [size=9pt]-Beyerdynamic MMX 300 gaming headset.  This set up is the sickness!!!  These are based off the DT770 and are closed.  The mic is very high quality and have been told is very clear on the other end from people I play with. I like having a built in mic and if I would have gone with an audiophile level of phones and added a mic it would have just meant more wires.  Not to say I would never do that as I have seen some pretty sick set ups on Head-Fi that people have custom made, but I like having it all in one.  I might add a headphone amp later to get more soundstage but its good enough for now and is the best set up I have had to date.[/size]


----------



## rabidgamer

I just spent a good part of 5hrs gaming with the AD700s/Ear Force DSS, what can I say that hasn't already been said? lol, they are wonderful... as far as soundstage goes, best I've ever used by far... I know where EVERYTHING is, it's actually a bit scary.
   
  I checked what SPL I was getting out of them, with the loudest sounding song I have and the average was just under 70db with peaks reaching no more than 75db and the game is definitely quieter, so getting that amount of detail at what could be considered a low volume has made me incredibly happy. I have no doubt that if I blasted them I could hear more, but that's not what I'm looking for.
   
  The only downside is that they are low on bass, but the ear force dss has a built in bass boost thing and surprisingly it actually works very well, so if I ever need bass I know it's there.
   
  I also finally found a use for my Kinect, I now use the mic on that for game chat (I sit close enough that it's not an issue whatsoever, if anything it picks up too much) so theres one good thing I suppose  lol
   
  Couldn't be happier.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't game on PC. In case anyon missed it, the PC360 impression is on the previous page as well as the opening post.
> 
> PC360 = FANTASTIC
> 
> ...


 
   
  You should check and see if the soundstage/foam mods apply to the pc360.  Perhaps it would then rival the hd598.


----------



## dub Beatz

I'm sure I read about a mod that opened up the PC360 and apparently it didn't do it justice. I don't remember where it was. Actually, it might have been here on head-fi.


----------



## LukaTCE

Which is good headset/headphone just for gaming ?  my budget is 200€ with sound card
  I saw on this forum you recommend ATH-AD700
  So for gaming is better open-air right?
  What about HD 555 moded to HD 595 or original HD 595 ?
  And about PC 350/360
  Also i saw on forums SteelSeries 7H are better then PC 350 is that true ?
  Or any others you can recommend me
   
  Also which sound card you can recommend ?
  I was looking into Xonar D1/DX (60€) both are same right ? DX PCI-E don't made sound better right ?
 Or Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium fatality (70€)
  Or any other at that price range
   
  Also what to buy it will work with Xbox 360 ?
  Will work just with this ? http://www.fyygame.com/xbox-360-earphone-transformer.html
  Or i will need MIXAMP 5.8 or are there any others  wireless sound card or how is called
  Or Ear Force DDS
  Is same sound quality with this mixamp or DDS or PC sound card like this xonar d1/dx, X-Fi Titanium fatality


----------



## halehaler

Can I add a mic. to the creative's, if so please link to a good one, ideally that is buy able in England.
   
  If not, what headphones can have a mic. added to them?


----------



## Xpresser

Fantastic thread/info MLE!!!
   
  This is exactly the type of research I've been doing for the past 2 weeks. I play BF Bad Company 2 a lot on the PC and need a better solution than my current Plantronics .Audio 510 USB headset (yuck!). I have heard that the AD700 with a stand alone mic is a great setup for FPS gaming and of course your review only confirms that. The thing is I need a closed solution since my main PC is in the bedroom and I sometimes game while the wife ("why do you need to spend hours and hours researching...just buy the dang thing") is asleep. Anyhow after reading this I am leaning more toward the Sennheiser PC 360 but it is a bit over my budget plus I was hoping to get something that would be very well suited for music.
   
  Since you didn't list it I assume you didn't try the ATH-A700 and that was the one I was really considering before reading this thread. I was considering it because from what I have learned it's basically the closed version of the ATH-AD700. Now my question to you, or anyone that wants to offer up their opinion/experience, is would the A700 deliver the same type of directional accuracy as the AD700 or would it be hampered since it's closed? And you mentioned the biggest drawback to the AD700 is that they are really bass light so wouldn't that improve a bit with the closed A700's?


----------



## ssavage

thanks bro, just ordered my AD700s. Although, I think the 990s are next


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





chinesekiwi said:


> Having both the AD700 and DT880, I do feel the DT880 is better for gaming. Soundstage width is not everything in a gaming headphone. What's much more important is imaging within the soundstage. the AD700 is the much better value out of the two, that cannot be argued, but the DT880 images better in a smaller sized soundstage. It's imaging first, then soundstage width.


 

 What about the supposed 6 o'clock blind spot that I have yet to experience?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuebS4bTlGQ&feature=feedf
   
  akaTRENT's review of the PC360, which pretty much mirrors everything I have said.
   
   
   
  Okay, I didn't quote, but here are my replies:
   
   
   
   
  LukaTCE, my recommendation if you can afford it is Sennheiser PC360 with Astro Mixamp. The Mixamp can be plugged into your PC as well. If you ABSOLUTELY need a soundcard, I'd recommend something with Dolby Headphone like the Asus Essence STX. I don't play on PC, so I can't really help you there, though if you got the Mixamp, it would render your soundcard moot anyways. If you DON'T need a mic or will mod a mic to a headphone, the Sennheiser HD598 is AWESOME, and even better than the PC360.
   
  I personally feel that the overall sound presentation of the Sennheiser PC360 is BETTER than the AD700. The AD700 has a bigger soundstage and is a little clearer, but is also lacking in bass. The PC360 is better balanced. It isn't missing anything. It ain't bassy, but the bass is noticeably more present. Imaging/positioning is pretty much on par with the AD700. IF the modded 555 or 595 truly is what the PC360 sounds like, then I'd recommend them over the AD700 simply because they are more well rounded. That's only IF. The AD700 is still an FPS beast, but the lack of bass makes them more of a one trick pony. However, if you're getting one headphone for FPS, and one for everything else, then the AD700 is the best for FPS, IMHO.
   
   
   
   
  halehaler, I modded a labtec LVA-7330 onto my Creative Aurvana Live. There is enough cup space to add a mic. They will work extremely well.
   
   
   
   
  Xpresser, I haven't tried the A700 (which is actually NOT a closed equivalent of the AD700, but more of a closed AD500). The A900 is more like a closed AD700 from what I've been told from owners. They are COMPLETELY different series in Audio Technica, and people need to stop comparing them as simply open vs closed.
   
  Closed headphones can offer spectacular and accurate positioning (i.e. DT770, D7000, Creative Aurvana Live), but the soundstage just won't be as big, which may make the depth of directional cues sound too close at times. Considering the A700 is known to have a large soundstage for a closed headphone, I'm willing to bet that they'll be fine for gaming, though not on par with the AD700.


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 A negative of the DT880 is the lack of soundstage depth compared to other headphones such as the AKG K701. This can be compensated in gaming by for example, on Asus soundcards, using the 7.1 speaker shifter and increase the distance of the speakers away from the dummy head.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing you can do about it on consoles though. The DT880 is a marvel for gaming, except when it comes to FPS. I'd stay away if FPS on consoles is top priority.
   
  I never been backstabbed more with any other headphone.  <_<


----------



## BlutoSlice

> A negative of the DT880 is the lack of soundstage depth compared to other headphones such as the AKG K701. This can be compensated in gaming by for example, on Asus soundcards, using the 7.1 speaker shifter and increase the distance of the speakers away from the dummy head.


 
   
  +1 this is a great feature.. I recommend testing with the 6 & 8 channel multi layer wav from Microsoft  and you will see how useful the speaker shifter is smoothing out the lumps. 
   
  http://www.mediafire.com/?zn2f81twfkq2dna  (Zip containing 5.1 and 7.1 wav files)


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Xpresser, I haven't tried the A700 (which is actually NOT a closed equivalent of the AD700, but more of a closed AD500). The A900 is more like a closed AD700 from what I've been told from owners. They are COMPLETELY different series in Audio Technica, and people need to stop comparing them as simply open vs closed.
> 
> Closed headphones can offer spectacular and accurate positioning (i.e. DT770, D7000, Creative Aurvana Live), but the soundstage just won't be as big, which may make the depth of directional cues sound too close at times. Considering the A700 is known to have a large soundstage for a closed headphone, I'm willing to bet that they'll be fine for gaming, though not on par with the AD700.


 
   
  Thank you very much for setting me straight on the AD700 vs A700. That's what I get for believing everything I read. I've also added the JVC RX700 and RX900 to my research list but still far from making a decision. Thanks again for all your advice...it helps big time!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm still intrigued by the HARX700 and HARX900 myself. Having NOT heard them yet, my curiosity is piqued to see what kind of bang for buck performance they offer. I'm a huge fan of bang for buck. I believe it's worth trying, but I just wouldn't as I know they will not compare to what I have already had, though they can potentially be GREAT.


----------



## Styles

MLE,
   
  When youre not gaming with your Senns, what mic set up do you use?  That can be a pain sometimes when you go with dedicated cans.  I would like to see a comparison of your Senns to my Beyerdynamic MMX 300's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Before the Senn PC360 and HD598  (literally got them both this month), I used everything that you saw in the first post. The ones that got used the most was:
   
  AD700
  Creative Aurvana Live
  DT770 Pro 80
  K701
  Premium DT880
  Premium DT990
   
  I ran all my headphones micless, except the Creative Aurvana Live, which I modded with the Labtec LVA 7330 with double sided velcro. I didn't use the mic much even then. After I sold them to obazavil, I got myself the cheap $2.50 dealextreme clip on mic which worked incredibly well (still have it). I wasusing that with the DT990 until I sold it and got my D7000. Now whenever I don't use the PC360, I use the D7000 micless.
   
  I'm not much of a chatting player. I tend to NOT use a mic when I'm being serious, as I focus entirely on game audio, and find chatting as a distraction. Though I will chat more now with the PC360.
   
  If for instance I'm playing something co-op, I MAY use the D7000 with the clip on mic, but for the sake of practicality, I'd probably just go with the PC360 anytime I need to chat, leaving my clip on as a backup.


----------



## Cataphract

I have objections to the 'Competitive' rating of your headphones, as well as the use of Dolby Headphone for gaming.
   
  I own both the AD700 and HD 280, and a sound card (Xonar DX) which supports Dolby Headphone. In terms of spatial accuracy in gaming the AD700 and HD 280 have performed virtually the same in my experience, although the AD700 certainly gives the _illusion_ of a larger space. Dolby Headphone gives a very large sense of space in the game, but my actual ability to find the origin of an in-game sound decreases significantly. By spatial accuracy I mean the accuracy and precision with which I can pinpoint the origin of a sound, whereas by illusion of space I mean how large I perceive the world to be. I actually prefer the HD 280 because the isolation lets me hear more quiet details over the racket of my mouse, fans and CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK mechanical keyboard.
   
  A good way of testing this I think is with the totally invisible bloodsuckers in STALKER Call of Pripyat. In Shadow of Chernobyl you could see their eyes but not so here. With either pair of headphones and Dolby Headphone off in the sound drivers I can track them entirely from the sound of their breathing. With Dolby Headphone on my ability to hear where they are is significantly diminished with either pair of headphones. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 also has an awesome sound engine with great spatial positioning for headphones. In my experience you should let the game software handle the spatial processing, even for older games with very primitive DSP. The Dolby Headphone effect does not know where the sounds are located, and the in-game sounds themselves are all mono clips devoid of any inherent soundstage in the recording. You have to rely upon the game software to recreate the environment, and the accuracy of the reconstruction tends to be the same across various pairs. Additional DSPs like Dolby Headphone can only harm your ability to tell where something is coming from, although I may be overstating degree of the negative effect it has on my perception.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno what you're going on about, but I have played games in stereo with EVERY single one of the headphones I have used to see the difference. Basic stereo is so damn inferior to Dolby Headphone to my ears, it's not even ANYWHERE near close to comparison. It failed, hardcore.
   
  We all hear differently. Some people would never use a DSP over basic 2 channel. Some others (like me) would NEVER go back to stereo after using Dolby Headphone.
   
  No contest.
   
  As for the HD280, the directionality is there, but there is no sense of depth and distance to my ears. It has such a tight and restrictive soundstage, that everything sounds like it's inches from me. No thanks. I'll stick to my FAKE sense of depth and width, while I go 25 kills and 0 deaths, vs going 0-25 with stereo. I have ZERO issues knowing in what exact direction sounds are coming from with the right headphones. Dunno where you get this crap about DH not being able to accurately place sounds, but DH is becoming more and more popular, and I say it's with good reason.
   
  As I mentioned before, I'm a console gamer. I don't use keyboards with my games. I don't need that extreme amount of isolation you might need.
   
  Pretty much on all counts open >>>>> closed, IMHO.


----------



## Cataphract

What games do you test them in? I haven't found a better test than Call of Pripyat's invisible bloodsuckers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Best games to test them in are shooters. From CoD4, MW2, Mass Effect 2, to everything in between. Sound placement is incredibly accurate on pretty much every game worth their 2 cents.
   
  Like I said, I'm not a PC gamer. Never heard of that game. What's the use of testing a headphone with a game no one plays? Lol.
   
  The majority of gamers want the sound accurate for the majority of games. DH works perfectly with any game I've tested...


----------



## Cataphract

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:_Call_of_Pripyat
  Fairly popular series among PC gamers.
   
  I'm just looking for a more consistent test. Going off of variable multiplayer performance is one thing, but being able to accurately track the movement of an invisible monster by ear allows for more direct and consistent comparisons between headphones. Still not the greatest test, and I would still use Bad Company 2 for long-distance comparisons, but better than most. Modern PC games also usually let you choose a specific headphone output mode. I dunno if console games give you that option.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

I think the m50´s ( at least ) sound just freaking amazing in singleplayer games.
  I never play competitive multiplayer games so these cans are just perfect
  lLast night i played some bc2 campgain and it was incredible
  imho they are miles better than the ad 700 for singleplayer games
  since they are more bassy and every single sound effect is more intense.
  they have terrific imaging too .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bad Company 2 works very well on console, you know.
   
  Like I said, I'm not a PC gamer, so that game has absolutely no use for me.
   
  I play MANY non-FPS or shooters, and can 'accurately' track any sound in front, behind, or to my sides. Perhaps you haven't given DH enough of a chance, but I can definitely hear everything 360 degrees around me without any issue whatsoever. I say shooters are the best because you're basically 'you' and all sounds are happening around you as if it were actually you in the game. Other games use sound cues a little differently, relative to where your character is, and where sounds are in their vicinity.
   
  I can say that when I first used DH with the A40s, I wasn't impressed in the least. It sounded unnatural, and I couldn't gauge where sounds were. I just wasn't used to the processing. It wasn't until I got the AD700 where DH opened my eyes. I understood it, and since then, everything has been an absolute cakewalk.
   
  DH is very sensitive to the headphone you're using. Some will do a very bad job (for instance, the HD280 Pro, M50), and some will make it seem like you're cheating because it's so good (like the K701, PC360, and HD598).
   
  NewVegasBaby: The M50 is very immersive, I'll give them that. However, they don't work too well with Dolby Headphone. They have a very cramped soundstage, not allowing for good imaging and sense of depth and width. They are terrible for multiplayer. The signature also isn't good for mutiplayer because of the deep bass which muddies up the finer details.
   
  The AD700 has ALWAYS been stated to be very bass shy, which is why I only recommend them for competitive gaming, and not single player gaming.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> The M50 is very immersive, I'll give them that. However, they don't work too well with Dolby Headphone. They have a very cramped soundstage, not allowing for good imaging and sense of depth and width. They are terrible for multiplayer. The signature also isn't good for mutiplayer because of the deep bass which muddies up the finer details.


 
  Those are the same charactristics that make them so immersive , making them obsolete in multiplayer.
  I think their imaging is good , they are  very detailed.
  that campred soundstage makes then unreal with horror games


----------



## Cataphract

I suppose DH might conceivably help on a console where your game's sound output doesn't have a selectable headphone mode. I guess I'll go through some games and test AD700/HD 280 + DH/no DH + headphone/stereo speaker/surround speaker outputs and see how it adds or detracts from my sense of direction.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, there are other immersive cans with impressive bass than work well in multiplayer:
   
  Creative Aurvana Live
  DT990
  D7000
   
  They have a ridiculous level of immersion, great positioning and imaging, and clarity that the M50 can't beat.
   
  The last two are a lot more expensive however. XD
   
  If you want a BETTER gaming headphone that is cheaper, the Creative Aurvana Live is comparable to the M50's sound with more soundstage depth and width, making it more realistic.
   
  Cataphract, DH isn't something you can just test in one day. Spend some time with it to get used to the full soundfield you're enveloped in. Close your eyes when testing positioning IN a game (as opposed to just basic directional tests), and you should start feeling where the sounds are, and not just a strict left or right audio cue.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> DT990
> D7000


 
  wayyy more expensive than the m50s here
   
  Quote: 





> Creative Aurvana Live


 
  the m50s are better all around headphones that work great for gaming(offline) as well.
  Even though those are quite nice and im having some problems with my m50s ( they are a little to much prone to static)
  if i can get a refund on my m50s i will certainly get those


----------



## Cataphract

The best test I can think of is with the bloodsucker. I'm primarily interested in accuracy of pinpointing the location of a sound, which I suspect to be mostly similar from headphone to headphone. DH is just an all-in-one surround downmix+crossfeed+reverb; I think you're giving it too much credit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you even tried the Creative Aurvana Live/Denon D1001? They are VERY much comparable to the M50. The 10% difference in sound is that the CAL is slightly laid back in treble compared to the M50. Bass is nearly identical, and mids are richer in the CAL. To say the M50 is better all around, well, that's nonsense. They are very similar, and the CAL has more depth and width. I do prefer the brighter treble of the M50, but that's personal preference. For gaming, it's a no brainer. The CAL is better in imaging and soundstage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





cataphract said:


> The best test I can think of is with the bloodsucker. I'm primarily interested in accuracy of pinpointing the location of a sound, which I suspect to be mostly similar from headphone to headphone. DH is just an all-in-one surround downmix+crossfeed+reverb; I think you're giving it too much credit.


 


  And I think you're not giving it enough credit.
   
  SEE WHAT I DID THERE? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I created this thread for those interested in headphones and how they work particularly with Dolby Headphone (see the topic title?). I didn't make it to discuss whether it's better or worse than your preference of regular stereo over DH.
   
  In the end, we choose what we want. You wanna play in normal stereo, fine. But to dismiss DH as some bland downmix+crossfeed+reverb just because YOU don't like it, well excuse my french, but you can GTFO and go make a stereo only headphone thread, k?
   
  There is a market for Dolby Headphone users out there, which is why there's various products for consoles that utilize it:
   
  DSS
  Mixamp
  AX720
  X41
   
  not to mention other proprietary headsets with DH built onto the headset itself.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Have you even tried the Creative Aurvana Live/Denon D1001? They are VERY much comparable to the M50. The 10% difference in sound is that the CAL is slightly laid back in treble compared to the M50. Bass is nearly identical, and mids are richer in the CAL. To say the M50 is better all around, well, that's nonsense. They are very similar, and the CAL has more depth and width. I do prefer the brighter treble of the M50, but that's personal preference. For gaming, it's a no brainer. The CAL is better in imaging and soundstage.


 
  I think im goin to return my m50s then
  Are the cal easy to dirve as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





newvegasbaby said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, very easy.
   
  Like I said, they are very comparable to one another. The M50 is a little more aggressive, and isolates from the outside better. They are better for music to MY ears, but that's because I like my treble on the sharp side. Lots of head-fiers would actually like the CAL/Denon D1001 more because the treble isn't as sharp.
   
  The M50 is built like a tank, the CAL/Denon D1001 is more fragile.
   
  I honestly don't think one is better than the other overall. They both have their pros and cons. Again, M50 is slightly better for music, CAL is definitely better for gaming. However, the CAL/Denon works almost as well for music, while the M50 to me doesn't really work for gaming.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Like I said, they are very comparable to one another. The M50 is a little more aggressive, and isolates from the outside better. They are better for music to MY ears, but that's because I like my treble on the sharp side. Lots of head-fiers would actually like the CAL/Denon D1001 more because the treble isn't as sharp.


 
  yeah i prefer a more laid back treble after having listened to them for a while.
  And im having problems with the m50s ( mine are defective  and have insane amounts of static even plugged to clean sources)
  Thanks for the tip


----------



## Cataphract

Except that's exactly what it is. It's math not magic. I will be testing DH versus stereo headphone output more, but I suspect it won't do much for most stereo signals, especially if said signal _has already been processed for headphone output_ which PC games already do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

NewVegasBaby: No problem. Just giving my opinions on stuff I've actually used. I'm not the final word on what's good or not, but I do have plenty of experience with these headphones, and definitely have preferences on what works better for gaming. I'm very picky, which is why I have gone through so many in just over a year's time. I've finally settled on the PC360, but my clear faves (out of the MANY) are as I mentioned before:
   
   
  In Order
   
  Competitive
   
  K701
  HD598
  PC360
  AD700
  DT990
  D7000
  Creative Aurvana Live
  KSC75
   
  Fun:
   
  D7000
  DT990
  Creative Aurvana Live
  DT770/600 (bass heavy version with bass ports)
  DT770 Pro 80
  KSC75


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I created this thread for those interested in headphones and how they work particularly with Dolby Headphone (see the topic title?). I didn't make it to discuss whether it's better or worse than your preference of regular stereo over DH.
> In the end, we choose what we want. You wanna play in normal stereo, fine. But to dismiss DH as some bland downmix+crossfeed+reverb just because YOU don't like it, well excuse my french, but you can GTFO and go make a stereo only headphone thread, k?


 

 I hate when _everyone_ in a thread agrees on something, and _one person_ waltzes in saying it's all wrong, as if they have some sort of credibility and know better than hundreds of other _experienced_ people.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  Lol, yeah. Like we're going to become enlightened by his blatant dislike for Dolby Headphone. We've pretty much have been saying how much we LOVE DH for gaming, and yet it's like he's trying to school us on how bad he thinks it is. What. If he doesn't like it fine, but DAMN.... it's like...


----------



## Cataphract

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I hate when people try to debunk arguments with appeals to authority.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Arguments? That's just it, we're not the ones trying to argue here. If you don't like Dolby Headphone, more power to you. But you're coming onto a thread with people who DO like it, and are recommending it to others who want to try something other than normal stereo for a change.
   
  Like I said, you can go make a stereo vs Dolby Headphone thread and argue to your heart's content. This however, is not the thread for such an argument. You said what you wanted to say, now go play in your beloved stereo and leave us alone, KTHXBIE.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





			
				Cataphract said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I hate when people try to debunk arguments with appeals to authority.


 
   
  Appeals to what authority? If you don't like DH, then don't stick around. Period.
   
  On topic; with the PC 360 being as good as it is, it makes me now wonder why gaming headsets, by audiophile brands anyway, never really took off around here. It makes me think twice about the Beyer gaming headsets, and how good they are or could be, and why they don't get as much attention as their headphone-only counterparts. Price maybe? I haven't really considered them until now.


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> NewVegasBaby: No problem. Just giving my opinions on stuff I've actually used. I'm not the final word on what's good or not, but I do have plenty of experience with these headphones, and definitely have preferences on what works better for gaming. I'm very picky, which is why I have gone through so many in just over a year's time. I've finally settled on the PC360, but my clear faves (out of the MANY) are as I mentioned before:
> 
> 
> In Order
> ...


 


  Why is the 598 above AD700 when its score loses by .5 point?
   
   
   
  Btw I think you should organize the first post like ljokerl's threads. (Like this one: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433318/shootout-65-portable-headphones-reviewed-tdk-wr700-akg-k430-added-01-08)
  Give them numbers and list them above so people can find their headphones easily.


----------



## Cataphract

Quote: 





> Lol, yeah. Like we're going to become enlightened by his blatant dislike for Dolby Headphone. We've pretty much have been saying how much we LOVE DH for gaming, and yet it's like he's trying to school us on how bad he thinks it is. What. If he doesn't like it fine, but DAMN.... it's like...


 
   
  I do not dislike Dolby Headphone unconditionally. I do not like DH on top of something already processed for headphone output. I say blind because Dolby Headphone does not know the locations of each sound in the game environment I do like it for 5.1->headphone output, but I like the in-game headphone output better.
   
  I did not realize the recommendations were for consoles. Many console games output in 5.1 but do not offer specific headphone options. In this scenario DH works well because it downmixes 5.1 into stereo while preserving directional cues and a sense of space from the surrounding room.
   
  I will re-evaluate 5.1->DH vs in-game headphone options and post about my experiences hunting bloodsuckers, as well as in Bad Company 2 and other games. If DH works better with some headphones than others, it's probably because the more synergistic headphone has more linear frequency response in the range which humans use for directional cues. This will take quite some time since I intend to try each mode out for a while and there will be a lot of combinations to go through.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Riku, yeah, I believe it's because of the price/performance. It's simply more cost effective to just get a headphone and attach a mic to it. In my case, I really wanted a simple solution that was good to go without anything extra. The PC360 was it for me. I'd like to try the MMX300 one day, as I have no doubt it will be quite a beast when it comes to closed headphone gaming, going off what I have heard with my DT770s.
   
   
   
   
  I based that small list off personal preference. The AD700 is slightly better in competitive performance, but the HD598 has a better overall sound signature. In my case, I'd pick the HD598 over the AD700 despite the AD700 being a teeny bit better when it comes down to pure accuracy of positional cues. That, and I HATE the Audio Technica wing design of the headband...if you can call it that. The Senns are MUCH more comfortable for me.
   
  And as for doing it in the format ljokerl has done...well I'm too lazy for that. XD
   
  This is a pretty barebones 'guide', and not something that will ever come close to ljokerl's excellent comparison threads. Also, my 'hunt' is more or less over, now that I have FINALLY settled on two very fantastic headphones for my needs.
   
  I'll consider numbering them sooner than later.
  
  Quote: 





canoners said:


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## canoners

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Riku, yeah, I believe it's because of the price/performance. It's simply more cost effective to just get a headphone and attach a mic to it. In my case, I really wanted a simple solution that was good to go without anything extra. The PC360 was it for me. I'd like to try the MMX300 one day, as I have no doubt it will be quite a beast when it comes to closed headphone gaming, going off what I have heard with my DT770s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 >_> you lazy guy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I edited it a little. I will number them sometime soon. XD
   
  The 'guide' took me hours, and I'm still not happy with it. So I will undoubtedly work on it little by little, but I don't want people to think this is meant to be a professional guide, more as a personal guideline based off my own experiences, as I get a lot of people pm-ing me about this sort of thing.
   
  I'm not going to be buying/testing much more than what I have already, as I'm pretty much happy with what I have now.


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I edited it a little. I will number them sometime soon. XD
> 
> The 'guide' took me hours, and I'm still not happy with it. So I will undoubtedly work on it little by little, but I don't want people to think this is meant to be a professional guide, more as a personal guideline based off my own experiences, as I get a lot of people pm-ing me about this sort of thing.
> 
> I'm not going to be buying/testing much more than what I have already, as I'm pretty much happy with what I have now.


 


  How'd you get all the money to buy the headphones? 
   
  I need to get a part time job here, but school's just too taxing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just working, buying, trading, selling, buying again, rinse, repeat. I haven't owned more than 3 worthwhile headphones at once.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Don't make decision based in one man opinion. I have used the m50 for gaming and indeed they are Great. I didn't feel any major inferiority to other headphones I had.
  I've tried the likes of hd595, hd600, dt990, m50, Sony SA5000, turtle beach x4 and hpx-1, sharkoons, roccat kave...
  I would say for the price you paid the m50 does well just like you said. Plus if you like it don't change sideways. You better wait and buy a better choice, like dt990 which has stronger bass than m50 and stronger treble also which makes it really FUN and still lets you pick other noises well as the treble is very crisp.
  I loved playing gears of wars with it. IT also has a very nice soundstage... well now that I am saying they are also really comfortable.
  
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newvegasbaby said:


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## Mad Lust Envy

I somewhat agree. While I don't particularly care for the M50s for gaming, the CAL isn't a huge upgrade, but more of a slight sidegrade that just happens to be better for gaming. I second going for the DT990s. YES. They are awesome. But they are also more than twice the price.
  Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> Don't make decision based in one man opinion. I have used the m50 for gaming and indeed they are Great. I didn't feel any major inferiority to other headphones I had.
> I've tried the likes of hd595, hd600, dt990, m50, Sony SA5000, turtle beach x4 and hpx-1, sharkoons, roccat kave...
> I would say for the price you paid the m50 does well just like you said. Plus if you like it don't change sideways. You better wait and buy a better choice, like dt990 which has stronger bass than m50 and stronger treble also which makes it really FUN and still lets you pick other noises well as the treble is very crisp.
> I loved playing gears of wars with it. IT also has a very nice soundstage... well now that I am saying they are also really comfortable.
> ...


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Don't make decision based in one man opinion. I have used the m50 for gaming and indeed they are Great. I didn't feel any major inferiority to other headphones I had.
> I've tried the likes of hd595, hd600, dt990, m50, Sony SA5000, turtle beach x4 and hpx-1, sharkoons, roccat kave...
> I would say for the price you paid the m50 does well just like you said. Plus if you like it don't change sideways. You better wait and buy a better choice, like dt990 which has stronger bass than m50 and stronger treble also which makes it really FUN and still lets you pick other noises well as the treble is very crisp.
> I loved playing gears of wars with it. IT also has a very nice soundstage... well now that I am saying they are also really comfortable.


 
  They are slighty cramped though.
  Im going to wait for my asus dx2 which has 7.1 virtualization and more volume than my shouddy onboard .
  The bass is a little overwelming sometimes but they are so intense
  I will wait and see.
  PS: these things sound MUCHH better than they did last night , im listening to the four seasons , just amazing


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm if the bass is too intense, perhaps the CAL won't be right for you, as they are about equal in bass intensity.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Hmm if the bass is too intense, perhaps the CAL won't be right for you, as they are about equal in bass intensity.


 
  Yeah i know , i guess im going to eq these a little


----------



## mcnoiserdc

if the bass on the m50 is too much for you, then don't go the dt990 way, lol, well you may end up liking other aspects of it though, one never knows. You have to try as many headphones as possible to find the best for you... money goes in the process
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newvegasbaby said:


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## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think he'd like the treble, as he would like it tamer than the M50 which the DT990 definitely does NOT, lol.


----------



## obazavil

The DT990 have bass, granted... but is soooooooooooooooooooo beautiful....


----------



## Xpresser

The DT990 Premium 250ohm is available for $180 shipped on Amazon and B&H...is this the normal price on those sites or is this a good deal right now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> The DT990 have bass, granted... but is soooooooooooooooooooo beautiful....


 


  Oh yeah. My fave bass out of all the headphones I have ever owned. Hits hard and quick. So unobtrusive. <3


  Quote: 





xpresser said:


> The DT990 Premium 250ohm is available for $180 shipped on Amazon and B&H...is this the normal price on those sites or is this a good deal right now?


 

 That's a good deal if I ever saw one. Just be wary of treble... got to constantly remind people, that it has a very energetic treble to say the least. For gaming, I doubt the treble would ever be an issue though.


----------



## Styles

[size=medium]MLE,[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I just read a review of the PC 360's and they had tested them with games, music and movies.  It faired very well in the review and I now would really love to see them up against the Beyerdynamic MMX 300's. Price point is about the same. I got mine for $250 before this past holiday on a short special on Earphone Solutions. The week later they went back up to $300 on the same site.  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]You spoke before about not really using your mic that much as you like to focus on the game itself. I can understand that and the fact that there are a lot of very immature people on xbox live.  I for one have found a very cool web site thats for older gamers of 25 and over only. They cater to everything from PS3, Xbox to PC. Ill send you the link of you want it.  Having the mic built in or even separate is very important for me as I like to play at a competitive level (as much as I can) and communication is key, and I like the  social aspect I get out of live gaming. I have a few friends that run the Astro Mixamp set up with HD650, 555 and the like with a custom mic set up.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]In the end I think these could be the 2 top sets for a total package that could compared out there for gaming.  If I can pic up the PC 360's anytime soon Ill write something up. I think the comparison is a little different when you mix in dedicated audiophile level phones without a mic. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned pricing around why maybe more high end headphone companies do or don't make gaming sets.  I think if gaming is your hobby the $250 - $300 range is good for a set of phones with mic that have a level of performance you would expect from such companies.[/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm 28. XD
   
  Well, to be completely honest with you, I probably play 5% of what I used to play this time last year. Now that I'm single, my habits have changed, and I don't get the feeling to play much anymore. I AM gonna pick up gaming once again probably at the beginning of next month or so, but my competitiveness has somewhat subsided a bit, and now I play mostly for fun when I DO play.
   
  I do, I guess my heart ain't into it that much anymore.


----------



## dub Beatz

Jesus 53 updates in 24 hours?


----------



## mcnoiserdc

just look for reviews on the beyer dt770, the mmx is the dt770 with a good mic.
   
  I have just sold my hd600, so I will buy the pc360. If I like better my sa5000, by the way These ARE AWESOME, I will sell it here for a good price, lol!
  
  Quote: 





styles said:


> [size=medium]MLE,[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]I just read a review of the PC 360's and they had tested them with games, music and movies.  It faired very well in the review and I now would really love to see them up against the Beyerdynamic MMX 300's. Price point is about the same. I got mine for $250 before this past holiday on a short special on Earphone Solutions. The week later they went back up to $300 on the same site.  [/size]
> 
> ...


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> just look for reviews on the beyer dt770, the mmx is the dt770 with a good mic.
> 
> I have just sold my hd600, so I will buy the pc360. If I like better my sa5000, by the way These ARE AWESOME, I will sell it here for a good price, lol!


 
   
  I had read that the MMX 300 were based on the DT770. With that said is there a series of Senns that the PC 360 is based on? I think that would be a good fact to know.
   
  Now that I have entered this new world of head-fi I'm really itching to build a nice set up for my desk at work.  I'm also going to run the Schiit Asgart on my MMX 300's with the Mixamp, I think it will take my gaming sound to the next level.


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## Riku540

First page; 595 or modded 555.


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## mcnoiserdc

The pc360 is based on hd555/595 series, some say one some the other, but in the end the driver is the same on both models.
  
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styles said:


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## Styles

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> First page; 595 or modded 555.


 


  Thanks Riku!


----------



## matryx

Which version of the *Premium DT990 *did you use?
  The beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm Headphone version is on sale for $180. Is that a good price?
  Also is the mixamp enough for the DT990 when using voice chat also?


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





matryx said:


> Which version of the *Premium DT990 *did you use?
> The beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm Headphone version is on sale for $180. Is that a good price?
> Also is the mixamp enough for the DT990 when using voice chat also?


 


  He used the 600 amp version.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





matryx said:


> Which version of the *Premium DT990 *did you use?
> The beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm Headphone version is on sale for $180. Is that a good price?
> Also is the mixamp enough for the DT990 when using voice chat also?


 


  No. You will need an extra amp if you plan on voice chatting. The Fiio E5 or E7 will NOT do. Trust me. Needs to be stronger. The E9 has way more than enough. Going by what some of my friends who have owned all three Premium variants of the DT880s, the Mixamp needs about the SAME volume for each of them. I can agree, as my 32ohm DT880 needed as much volume as my DT990 600ohm of the Mixamp.


----------



## LukaTCE

So moded 558 is same as 598 ?   anyone know how to this sound in FPS games ?
  as in this review said it is
http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
   
   Quoting from this review
  Quote:


> So how does it sound? Removing the black tape material gives the HD558 the boost in midrange that it didn’t have before. It’s almost similar to the HD598, except that the HD558 now has just a tad more midrange than the HD598. Just a tad more, and it’s probably better in my opinion. The two headphones now sound like they are the same model but offered in different color schemes!


----------



## BlutoSlice

The 558 and 598 are just visual refreshes of the 555 and 595 I dont think there is any sonic differences.
  
  Quote: 





lukatce said:


> So moded 558 is same as 598 ?   anyone know how to this sound in FPS games ?
> as in this review said it is
> http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
> 
> ...


----------



## tdockweiler

I wish people would stop assuming this without checking reviews first. The HD-555/595 sound nothing like the 598.
  There are HUGE differences and i've heard them with my own ears. I've owned the modded 555 for nearly five years.
   
  Just to remind people again..
  598 is much brighter than the 555 or 595. It is not laid back or does it have the rolled off highs of the 555 or 595.
  It also has a huge improvement of the soundstage. Soundstage of the 555 is rather bad for an open headphone.
  The 598 also seems to have very slightly forward mids. Not like say the DJ100, ATH-AD2000 or K601.
   
  I hate to say it but the HD-598 is actually a far better headphone than my old K601. Imaging on the K601 might be a bit better, but it seemed less detailed.
  This is actually pretty impressive. It even sounds fine without an amp.

  
  Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> The 558 and 598 are just visual refreshes of the 555 and 595 I dont think there is any sonic differences.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


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## LukaTCE

And 558 mod to 598 ? it soud simillar ?
  
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I wish people would stop assuming this without checking reviews first. The HD-555/595 sound nothing like the 598.
> There are HUGE differences and i've heard them with my own ears. I've owned the modded 555 for nearly five years.
> 
> Just to remind people again..
> ...


----------



## matryx

I always thought competitive gaming is about communicating with your team, calling out opponents, coordinating tactics and strategies. So having a mic for competitive gaming should be a given.
   
  I'm thinking of getting the DT990. Would that be good for playing single player campaign? How about for action pack movies?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





matryx said:


> I always thought competitive gaming is about communicating with your team, calling out opponents, coordinating tactics and strategies. So having a mic for competitive gaming should be a given.


 

 You're right... but minus real-life friends... all you ever hear is 12 year old kids with their Eminem music as if wearing a mic is like driving a convertible to the club.
   
  It ain't a perfect world online.


----------



## olor1n

The demise of the Chromehounds server heralded the end of competitive gaming for me.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





riku540 said:


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 Everyone should try gaming on the PC. Join a decent clan on with regularly admined servers that com using teamspeak or ventrillo not open too the public. Its a whole other level and is a must for those dont want to hear anoying kids all the time. You will also have some of the best, tactical hard fought matches you've ever played and yes a mic is a must.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *tdockweiler*
> 
> 
> 
> wish people would stop assuming this without checking reviews first. The HD-555/595 sound nothing like the 598.


 
   
  Sorry bud my bad..  I'll be sure to pass correct info next time.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
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 Competitive gaming is also on consoles. If you're not playing with a clan against other clan in scrims than its casual. Black Ops have private matches so that's where all the competitive gamers go to setup matches using Game Battles.
   
  And when Killzone 3 comes out where there is a clan system this is where all the competitive gamers will go to. A real clan rank systems where you challenge other clans and climb to the top leader boards.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Competitive gaming doesn't have to mean that.
   
  When I say competitive gaming, it's when you're playing against other human players, and are trying to be on top. Games like CoD4, MW2, Bad Company 2. These games can be casual, but if you're more serious about winning and building your stats, I take that as competitive. Clan matches and Private Matches are even more competitive, that is true, but they too can also be casual.
   
  Casual or non-competitive is when I'm playing a single player campaign or story mode, or playing something co-op where I'm not directly trying to kill other players. Casual can also be when playing something other human players, but you're not worried about trying to be on top, and are in it mostly just to mess about with your friends.
   
  Trust me, when I'm in my competitive state of mind, I won't do much voice chatting, and get sucked right into the game, focusing entirely on everything happening IN the game, and not what people are saying.


----------



## Scytus

Anyone try the HFi-580 for fub/competitive gaming? Im curious to see how the soundstage holds up to the other closed models on this list.


----------



## Styles

[size=medium]As I'm new here to Head-Fi I can appreciate and respect the desire to communicate on a mature level.  It seems most of what I have read on here is that.  So for you guys on this thread that are into gaming whether it be Console or PC, I would love for you to check out 2old2play.com it is for the older gamer, 25 and over only, and has something for everyones taste in games.  This Friday they are hosting a community play date on Xbox playing Halo Reach.  Feel free to send me a friend request if you would like to play, my tag is _styles ii_ . Please let me know you're from Head-Fi when you send it.  There are quite a few players on that site that have some nice headphone/amp set ups as well.[/size]
   
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


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----------



## matryx

Fair enough but the way I see it, if you aren't playing with a clan or in ranked games then it's casual. Playing for high scores is still fun and IMO casual. Playing competitively means playing with other competitively mind players. Beating on random casuals are fun but that will never bring out your true skills. When you play competitively it's a whole different level and feeling. Communications is key in competitive games and the team with better communications and tactics will most likely be on top.
   
  Alright back on topic. I'm getting headphones for non-competitive play. Like for campaigns and for movies. What would be the best headphone for that. I want to get immerse into the game/movie. Looks like the DT990 does it all but the only problem is that I really don't want to put out more money for an amp. I'm already getting the Mixamp and another headphone amp is just too expensive for me.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


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> 
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> ...


 

 The DT 990 Premium 250ohm @ Amazon went up from $180 to $299! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   B&H still has it for $180 though. 
   
  Just bought the Sennheiser PC 360 for $189. Looking forward to that arrival. Think I'm going to get the 990 at B&H as well...maybe.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





matryx said:


> Fair enough but way I see it, if you aren't playing for with a clan or for rank than it's casual. Playing for high scores is still fun and for casuals. Playing competitively means playing with other competitively mind players. Beating on random casuals are fun but that will never bring out your true skills. When you play competitively it's a whole different level and feeling. Communications is key in competitive games and the team with better communications and tactics will mostly be on top. Alright back on topic. I'm getting headphones for non-competitive play. Like for campaigns and for movies. What would be the best headphone for that. I want to get immerse into the game/movie. Looks like the DT990 does it all but the only problem is that I really don't want to put out more money for an amp. I'm already getting the Mixamp and another headphone amp is just too expensive for me.


 

 Well in the case of Black Ops, don't forget there's still Free-For-All, and especially high stakes wager matches that are free-for-all based. I realize that there are always going to be different opinions on what qualifies as competitive; but as stated in the OP this is merely a guide, and an opinionated one at that.
   
  In any case go for the 32 Ohm DT 990 and you will not need an additional headphone amp other than the Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno Riku. I had the 32ohm DT880, and it needs almost as much as volume as the 600ohm with the Mixamp. It's not very sensitive. Yes, the 32ohm would be fine without voice chat, but I'm not entirely sure about it if voice chat is enabled. Anyone feel free to let us know if the 32ohm Beyers need more than the Mixamp can provide when adding voice chat.


----------



## Xpresser

There's is a review on Amazon of the 250ohm version and that guy also says that the 32ohm version is the harder to drive than the 250.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





xpresser said:


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> 
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> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I noticed that too. I guess I was too late. I guess I wait for another sale...I'm not in no hurry. I just got the KSC75 so I will try that until I find a deal on some of higher end headphones.
  I was particularly looking at the model because it was the only model to ship to Canada. All the other models the did ship to Canada. Also because it was on sale.
   
  Say that I got the DT990 600ohm version and wanted to use the mixamp with voice chat. Is the FiiO E9 all I need or do I need the E5 or E7 too?
  If anyone know where I can get E9 in Canada that would be really helpful.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





			
				Mad Lust Envy said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I dunno Riku. I had the 32ohm DT880, and it needs almost as much as volume as the 600ohm with the Mixamp. It's not very sensitive. Yes, the 32ohm would be fine without voice chat, but I'm not entirely sure about it if voice chat is enabled. Anyone feel free to let us know if the 32ohm Beyers need more than the Mixamp can provide when adding voice chat.


 
   
  Uh, that's not my experience. With the chat volume at 50%, the DT 880/32 is pretty darn loud with the game volume at 2 o'clock if I remember correctly. For certain, I can't play with game volume maxed and chat still at 50%... Just how loud are you listening when gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All you need is the E9 with the Mixamp. That's it. With voice chat, the E9 provides more than enough power to the 600ohm Beyers, and then some.
   
  Riku, My voice chat knob needs to be at around 2 o clock, because otherwise, game audio is louder than I'd like with the voice chat, making it hard for me to hear what people are saying. With the voice knob leaning so far towards voice, there is very little in the way of game audio volume. Which is why I need an amp with the 600ohm Beyers, and K70x.
   
  With the PC360, I do find voice volume to be fine at 50% on the voice/game knob.


----------



## matryx

I was looking at the PA2V2 amp. It's only $60 from what I heard. Would that be enough for voice chat? Amazon is selling the E9 for $130 and I would rather save that money and put it towards the headphone if the PA2V2 is enough for the DT990 600ohm


----------



## Riku540

The PA2V2 is not going to be enough for 600 ohms. My advice is if you're not going to get an amp that can do the job to it's fullest, don't bother wasting money on an amp that still won't get it done either way.


----------



## Styles

My Beyer MMX 300's are 32 ohm and on the Astro I run the master volume at about the 10 to 11 o'clock range and the game/voice knob at 50/50 and sometimes i turn it a little toward 1 o'clock depending on the game type and game.  I play mostly Halo.  Another friend runs the Astro mixamp to the Schiit Asgard amp to HD650's and a custom mic set up.  I dont think he can really run the HD650's off just the mixamp though I have never asked him if he has tried.  I think anything 32 ohm will run great off just the Astro mixamp.


----------



## dub Beatz

I agree with MLE's distinction between casual and competitive play. Of course, this is merely a matter of opinion. I just believe casual play would be single player or a match against bots. Competitive would be against other humans. Although most online gamers are casual, you're still going to run into good players in pugs. If you care at all about your stats, K/D or anything related (cough BF2,) you'll most likely play with the intention of winning. If you intend to come in first every round, you're playing competitively. After all, when one is competitive they strive for first. Back on BF2, though, I don't know how many of you are BF2 Vets, but I still argue that game as being the most incredible large scale multiplayer FPS for the PC. I'm always on =EAUK= 24/7 Wake Island 2007 server. Wake Island is my crack. Back when J10s were mad OP (that's a jet) I would go roughly 60-2 in one round, racking up roughly 150 points. My KD as an aviator used to be 12-point-something. I was such a Jet whore. I would spawn as AT and if someone was going to get the jet before me I would blow it up with my Eryx, haha. I know exactly where to stand to get the jet 100% of the time too, so people would flip out. Thankfully that server doesn't have a wait-in-line rule. Anyways, I considered myself a competitive player, because I did whatever it took to get a jet and dominate the battlefield.


----------



## twylight

I had a pretty exotic headphone rig I was gaming with and I went back to speaker and separates...for about $3k usd.  All of the mic based units were terrible and a mic is required in all games or you are playing casual.  I built a gaming desk with with Salk Signature Sound CAOB1 speakers, emotiva amps for pc/360/ps3 gaming.  I use a boom mic or blue tooth depending on my mood.  I think I just need to velco a mic to my cheek so my ears arent blocked.  I start to lean forward with a boom mic which makes my neck hurt after a while.
   
  I agree with the fun ratings on higher end headphones, it really sounds awesome to game the better made games with a mid-highend rig.
   
  I dont recommend IEMs much - I have given myself some solid pain from the spikes of noise that crashes/kids/server dumps/vent/etc can cause in your sound chain.
   
  Thanks for this review and how it was written and communicated clearly for different audiences.


----------



## BlutoSlice

I played in a few BF2 leagues back in the day.. now they were competitive matchs !!
  Damn you flyboys 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ..spawn queing or using the tank to taxi to the runway... lets hope you get jets back in BF3 and I get some decent AA to shoot you down with !
   
  I was never much of a pilot more of a Tank Whore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   

  
  Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> I agree with MLE's distinction between casual and competitive play. Of course, this is merely a matter of opinion. I just believe casual play would be single player or a match against bots. Competitive would be against other humans. Although most online gamers are casual, you're still going to run into good players in pugs. If you care at all about your stats, K/D or anything related (cough BF2,) you'll most likely play with the intention of winning. If you intend to come in first every round, you're playing competitively. After all, when one is competitive they strive for first. Back on BF2, though, I don't know how many of you are BF2 Vets, but I still argue that game as being the most incredible large scale multiplayer FPS for the PC. I'm always on =EAUK= 24/7 Wake Island 2007 server. Wake Island is my crack. Back when J10s were mad OP (that's a jet) I would go roughly 60-2 in one round, racking up roughly 150 points. My KD as an aviator used to be 12-point-something. I was such a Jet whore. I would spawn as AT and if someone was going to get the jet before me I would blow it up with my Eryx, haha. I know exactly where to stand to get the jet 100% of the time too, so people would flip out. Thankfully that server doesn't have a wait-in-line rule. Anyways, I considered myself a competitive player, because I did whatever it took to get a jet and dominate the battlefield.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was all about Battlefield 2: Modern Combat on the 360, back in the good old days before CoD4 came out. I was KILLER in that game. Ironically, that game didn't benefit at all from headphones. <_<


----------



## Xpresser

Right now I'm really into online play with BF Bad Company 2 for the PC. I tried it with Xbox360 but there was too much lag in every server I tried. Much, much better with the PC version. Best online gaming experience I've ever had...and I'm an old dude who's been gaming for a long, long time. The sound of BFBC2 is amazing and the way the game awards team/squad game play is very nice as well. Open servers can be a drag sometimes when you get some kiddies in there screwing around but it really shines when you join a clan that has mature players and compete against another clan using a command structure and follow battle plans.


----------



## obazavil

heh... maybe i'm deaf or something... in HQ in BO (ps3 version) i get backstabbed more often I would like with mixamp=k702 
   
  i don't thing the audio settings has anything to do... maybe too much noise? or just plain deaf


----------



## Riku540

Black Ops has horrible sound, period.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

CoD has always had horrible sound in my ears, especially the gunfire is a laugh, sounds like bunch of toyguns.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

I Like Unreal Engine Games sound.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, if BF3 doesn't include Jets I'm nearly positive I won't be purchasing it. Due to the console ports, however, that's a strong possibility. How are you supposed to fly a jet with a controller... They better bring back custom pitch and yaw sensitivities too. I'm so pissed at flying in BC2 where you can't even roll because the Frostbite engine utilized some auto balance mechanism on choppers, which imo is dumb.


----------



## Cataphract

Well I seem to have made a blunder. I've apparently been using my motherboard's onboard sound the entire time, which doesn't have an option for Dolby Headphone but rather 'DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC', which gives a very crude effect compared to the Dolby Headphone plugin I occasionally use in foobar. While I do not like Dolby Headphone for music, I cannot comment regarding its use for PC gaming. I feel very silly now. My Xonar DX is currently unusable due to terrible C-Media drivers being terrible.


----------



## matryx

I just picked up the KCS75 and tried gaming with it on my PS3. The sound seems really low right now I guess it's because I don't have an amp to drive these right now. Voice chat is also hard to hear with these phones. It does sound like it has a bigger soundstage than my Turtle Beach P21 though. I got the KCS75 for cheap so I just wanted to try it. I wasn't expecting anything great and it was so cheap that I had to give it a try. It also was very uncomfortable for me. After 15-30mins my ears wore a bit sore.
  Anyways I'm going to go pick up the SRH750DJ at Future Shop and try them out. I'm also going to order the Astro mixamp to see if it helps with the volume on the KSC75
   
  edit: Can anyone recommend me a clip on mic that is not too sensitive. Since I'm going to be using open headphones I don't want the mic to pick up those sounds too.


----------



## obazavil

Quote:  





> edit: Can anyone recommend me a clip on mic that is not too sensitive. Since I'm going to be using open headphones I don't want the mic to pick up those sounds too.


 


  Try this:
  http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
   
  US $2.31, and is pretty good (MLE also bought it)


----------



## matryx

Is there a usb mic you can recommend? I think that one you need to have a mixamp for it don't you? I'm just not sure when I'm getting my mixamp so unless you can connect it somehow without the mixamp I'm going to need a usb mic.


----------



## commandercup

Do you know the difference between the PC 360 and the PC 350? I didn't realize that there were actually good headphones with microphones that weren't like 500 dollar broadcasting headphones. 
   
  Also, what are everyone's opinions on closed vs open for gaming (especially at LANs)? (Sorry if this has been asked in the thread already, long read


----------



## CScape

Hey I need some help making up my mind.  I'm trying to decide between the Tritton AX720 that come with the mix amp, or picking up a pair of Creative Aurvana Live and the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Amigo II for a usb dac.  I would be using these for pc gaming movies and music.


----------



## igotnojob

If you can wait until March, the Turtle Beach PX5 will be the new king-of-the-hill in gaming headsets and will give owners an unfair advantage in the sound whoring dept.
  
  Quote: 





cscape said:


> Hey I need some help making up my mind.  I'm trying to decide between the Tritton AX720 that come with the mix amp, or picking up a pair of Creative Aurvana Live and the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Amigo II for a usb dac.  I would be using these for pc gaming movies and music.


----------



## QuietKungFu

Quote: 





cataphract said:


> Well I seem to have made a blunder. I've apparently been using my motherboard's onboard sound the entire time, which doesn't have an option for Dolby Headphone but rather 'DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC', which gives a very crude effect compared to the Dolby Headphone plugin I occasionally use in foobar. While I do not like Dolby Headphone for music, I cannot comment regarding its use for PC gaming. I feel very silly now. My Xonar DX is currently unusable due to terrible C-Media drivers being terrible.


 

 Have you tried the "Unified Drivers" for the Xonar cards?  The guy rolls all the Xonar drivers into one file, incorporating fixes into them.  They've worked quite well on my Xonar DX with Win7 x64 for my PC 360 headset.  http://brainbit.wordpress.com/


----------



## BlutoSlice

I have had DX for years and had no problems with the Asus drivers on Win 7 64bit not to say there are not lots of problems reported on the ASUS forum.
   
  Make sure you do a driver sweep in between driver changes (http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?page=driversweeper) to ensure theres no legacy imperial entanglements. With my new STX I'm using the unified driver with no problems, I think its the best way to go if you have a Xonar.
   
  The unified installer gives the othion of both the original control panel and the C-media version each have thier pros and cons. I reccomend trying them both. 
  
  Quote: 





quietkungfu said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
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----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





cataphract said:


> Well I seem to have made a blunder. I've apparently been using my motherboard's onboard sound the entire time, which doesn't have an option for Dolby Headphone but rather 'DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC', which gives a very crude effect compared to the Dolby Headphone plugin I occasionally use in foobar. While I do not like Dolby Headphone for music, I cannot comment regarding its use for PC gaming. I feel very silly now. My Xonar DX is currently unusable due to terrible C-Media drivers being terrible.


 


 I don't think I've ever seen anyone recommend DH for music. This thread is about DH's application and effectiveness in gaming and I envisioned a scenario like this when you came into this thread arguing against its merits. Kudos for owning up to it though, maybe you'll refrain from posting on something you have little knowledge of next time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why the hell would ANYONE use DH for music? That is, unless the track itself used DD 5.1.
   
  It's the same as using DH on a basic stereo signal. It butchers the original source sound. It does work well with Pro Logic II, but definitely inferior to a real DD 5.1 signal.
   
  Dolby Headphone, IMHO should only be used for gaming, and to a much lesser extent, with movies.


----------



## BlutoSlice

@Cscape: The AZ720 is an all in one solution and from the reviews I remember the sound quality from the head set rated as average and far from the best also it is expensive.

 Mad Lust Rates the Creative Aurvana Live so I would go for that coupled with the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage *Micro* II for a usb dac with optical out feeding a Earforce DSS.
   
  It may not be wireless but will allow you to have IMO a better headphone and Dolby headphone 7.1 processing from the Earforce DSS all modular so you can upgrade in the future.  I assume you are on a laptop otherwise for the best wired solution get a Xonar DS or DX to power your Aurvana Lives.
   
  @igotnojob The PX5 looks interesting but using on a PC it would have to be seriously good to outshine the top wired setups in the same or even cheaper price range saying that  I'd love to try one on a PC with it being fed from optical out from a Dolby digital live enable sound card.
   
  Quote: 





igotnojob said:


> If you can wait until March, the Turtle Beach PX5 will be the new king-of-the-hill in gaming headsets and will give owners an unfair advantage in the sound whoring dept.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone, IMHO should only be used for gaming, and to a much lesser extent, with movies.


 

 Works fantastically with movies that have AC3 data...FANTASTIC.
   
*Cataphract:*
   
  Try the Uni drivers here: http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## BlutoSlice

I get the impression some people like to use DH to negate the inside of head feeling of some headphones. I agree it should just be for gaming but different strokes for different folks I guess.  
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why the hell would ANYONE use DH for music? That is, unless the track itself used DD 5.1.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





cataphract said:


> Well I seem to have made a blunder. I've apparently been using my motherboard's onboard sound the entire time, which doesn't have an option for Dolby Headphone but rather 'DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC', which gives a very crude effect compared to the Dolby Headphone plugin I occasionally use in foobar. While I do not like Dolby Headphone for music, I cannot comment regarding its use for PC gaming. I feel very silly now. My Xonar DX is currently unusable due to terrible C-Media drivers being terrible.


 

 Heh... glad you figured out what was happening


----------



## Cataphract

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  DH gives an 'outside the head' soundstage experience that I usually only get from binaural recordings and the like, and I sometimes like it when listening to orchestral pieces. I don't have any 5.1 music to try with it; I imagine it would work better with 5.1 signals rather than stereo.
   
  Chinesekiwi: Thanks, I'll give those a whirl.


----------



## Xpresser

I've read 3 different reviews on the upcoming PX5 and every one of them says it's for the PS3 and Xbox360. Note a word about it being compatible with the PC. Not saying it won't work with the PC, just didn't see any confirmation that it would. Plus it's wireless...I don't know how a wireless headset, at this present time, can be the "new king-of-the-hill" in gaming headsets. Never know though. Maybe I'm just trying to justify my PC 360 purchase to myself. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> @igotnojob The PX5 looks interesting but using on a PC it would have to be seriously good to outshine the top wired setups in the same or even cheaper price range saying that  I'd love to try one on a PC with it being fed from optical out from a Dolby digital live enable sound card.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## iHasCake

Quote: 





			
				obazavil said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> heh... maybe i'm deaf or something... in HQ in BO (ps3 version) i get backstabbed more often I would like with mixamp=k702
> 
> i don't thing the audio settings has anything to do... maybe too much noise? or just plain deaf


 

  
   
   
  COD: BO has terrible audio and its ancient looking.  only good thing about that game is how they tweaked the killstreaks a 'lil.  i wish they would have stuck with the MW2 engine.  at least the audio on that had some sort of directional queues and was graphically better yet doesn't tax your CPU like BO does...


----------



## igotnojob

I am not saying that the PX5 will be superior in overall sound reproduction or quality. Turtle Beach's offerings have always been fair to middling in that respect. You are absolutely right that a good PC rig would probably have the PX5 over a barrel when it comes to SQ. The PX5's killer feature is, of course, the one-touch EQ presets that can instantly switch from accentuating footsteps or reloads or shell casings falling while minimizing other game noises to give gamers the advantage of tactical situational awareness without having to crank the volume to hearing loss levels. The best product would combine the PX5's EQ feature with a standalone processor unit like the Mixamp or DSS so you can use your own headphones.
  
  Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> @igotnojob The PX5 looks interesting but using on a PC it would have to be seriously good to outshine the top wired setups in the same or even cheaper price range saying that  I'd love to try one on a PC with it being fed from optical out from a Dolby digital live enable sound card.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that sounds very enticing. Too bad it's a little to late for me. I'm too happy with my PC360 to care.


----------



## Styles

[size=9pt]Sorry if you have already said this, but what are you gaming on PC, PS3 or Xbox?[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]In the case of Xbox the line out for the headphones handles that mic as well. When using a headset, that is not the Astro A40 or A30, with a built in mic or separate mic, you have to use a Y splitter that comes with the mixamp that you plug the green headphone and pink mic line into.  then there is a line out to the controller as that is where the game chat comes from. So if you use a set of dedicated bad-a phones and a clip on mic you would plug them in like that. Below is a diagram my friend Neks made to help people visualize this set up with all components that would make the best set up. You can remove the amp if you have a 32 ohm set up.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt][/size]
  Quote: 





matryx said:


> Is there a usb mic you can recommend? I think that one you need to have a mixamp for it don't you? I'm just not sure when I'm getting my mixamp so unless you can connect it somehow without the mixamp I'm going to need a usb mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  This. The audio on Black Ops is pretty bad. Unless you have Ninja Pro, you can kiss relying on footsteps goodbye, and even with Ninja Pro, people can STILL sneak up on you. The footsteps just aren't accentuated enough.


----------



## Katun

Fantastic Guide Mad Lust Envy! It was an enjoyable and very informative read.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





styles said:


> [size=9pt]Sorry if you have already said this, but what are you gaming on PC, PS3 or Xbox?[/size]
> 
> [size=9pt]In the case of Xbox the line out for the headphones handles that mic as well. When using a headset, that is not the Astro A40 or A30, with a built in mic or separate mic, you have to use a Y splitter that comes with the mixamp that you plug the green headphone and pink mic line into.  then there is a line out to the controller as that is where the game chat comes from. So if you use a set of dedicated bad-a phones and a clip on mic you would plug them in like that. Below is a diagram my friend Neks made to help people visualize this set up with all components that would make the best set up. You can remove the amp if you have a 32 ohm set up.[/size]
> 
> ...


 


  Fantastic diagram...did he happen to make one for the PC?


----------



## Riku540

It would be identical except USB instead of optical... or both if you have them.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> It would be identical except USB instead of optical... or both if you have them.


 

 Yeah I figured that out as soon as I posted. It was a pretty dumb question on my part. I have a X-Fi XtremeGamer soundcard and I don't believe it has optical out so I think USB will have to do. Unless there is some kind of adapter but then again it probably wouldn't make a difference.


----------



## Eric_C

Styles: Why is the Xbox controller connected to the MixAmp?


----------



## Riku540

There's a controller port next to the headset jack. I don't own a 360, but if I remember correctly I believe the 360 headsets plug into the controller. I'm not sure how this fits into the equation though.


----------



## olor1n

To allow voice monitoring through your headphones so you don't feel like a retard when talking and to allow you to control the mix of voice comms vs game audio via the balance dial.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> There's a controller port next to the headset jack. I don't own a 360, but if I remember correctly I believe the 360 headsets plug into the controller. I'm not sure how this fits into the equation though.


 

 Oh I didn't know that about the MixAmp.
   
  The 360 headsets do indeed plug into the controller, which is why I'm a bit confused too.


----------



## Jani

Quote: 





styles said:


> [size=9pt]Sorry if you have already said this, but what are you gaming on PC, PS3 or Xbox?[/size]
> 
> [size=9pt]In the case of Xbox the line out for the headphones handles that mic as well. When using a headset, that is not the Astro A40 or A30, with a built in mic or separate mic, you have to use a Y splitter that comes with the mixamp that you plug the green headphone and pink mic line into.  then there is a line out to the controller as that is where the game chat comes from. So if you use a set of dedicated bad-a phones and a clip on mic you would plug them in like that. Below is a diagram my friend Neks made to help people visualize this set up with all components that would make the best set up. You can remove the amp if you have a 32 ohm set up.[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  Thats a big pile of cables to lug around every time you play (theres no mixamp's usb power cable on the pic) 5 freaking cables if you use the usb. I use mixamp with ad700's and clip on mic connected to the controller (360), so i only got one, the headphone cable coming from the TV stand where the i keep the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp isn't a very 'elegant' solution. The AX720 is much better, as it's a set top box, and the only thing that needs to be near you is the puck where you plug in your headsets.
   
  The Mixamp 5.8 however. Is even better as all you need near you is the Rx unit. Perhaps just one usb cable to keep the RX charged. That's it. I want one. NOW.
   
  Here's my craptastic and cramped setup... (my ex literally took everything a few months ago. I just got this couch, seat and Ottoman and little tables all last week)
   
  Didn't realize that my apartment couldn't fit it all...
   

   
  Optical switcher on the top right (needed it for the 360 and PS3). Have the first gen Mixamp right there so I can adjust it without moving it around. The cable from the controller to the Mixamp is long enough to reach where I lean back on the big couch.


----------



## LukaTCE

So what is better to go with AD700,HD 555 moded,HD 558 moded,DT770,DT880,DT990 (which model and how many Ohm and which amplifier)
  Also what is better to go with this ear force DSS or PC sound card like Asus Xonar D1/DX or Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
  Is possible to buy this AX720 Audio Controller only ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the HD598. If the modded HD58 is the same as the HD598, the that is the BEST way to go (I honestly don't believe that it is, unlike the modded 555 and 595, Sennheiser can't possibly be that stupid to do such a thing again).
   
  The HD598 is the best headphone I have used for gaming that didn't require an extra amp. Better than the AD700, PC360, AX720, Beyers, and what have you. They sounded like a K70x with more bass (though they aren't bassy themselves, and less soundstage, but still large overall.)
   
  So if I was empty handed right NOW and didn't need a mic or didn't mid attaching one, the HD 598 + Mixamp 5.8 would be the way I would go. I don't particularly like the HD598 for music, but I liked them better for music than the K701 or AD700, which are the only two headphones I'd rate slightly higher in purely competitive terms. For around $160, these are pound for pound my favorite gaming headphone.
   
  If you plan on attaching an amp, I would choose the DT990 (600ohm in my case, YMMV with the other versions) over the rest due to it being good with everything, from fun to competitive gaming, movies AND music, IMHO.


----------



## LukaTCE

So u recommend HD 598 over AD700 just for music ? or in FPS games (or any game) that light bass from AD700 is same as HD 598 ?


----------



## dub Beatz

Tough call imo.


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Styles: Why is the Xbox controller connected to the MixAmp?


 


 The Xbox voice chat comes through the controller.  When just playing with sound out of your tv/speakers you connect the standard Xbox headset to the controller for the voice chat.  When you buy a full Astro system with their headset and mixamp, the headset has the built in mic and the cord has 1 plug to handle game sound and mic.  If you want to use a different headset like a PC headset with built in mic you use the 3 pole Y adapter. In both of those set ups you need to get the voice chat from the controller into the mixamp. Thats why it has a cable going to it from the controller. This is how the game/voice knob on the mixamp works.  I use a Turtlebeach cable for this one because it has the mute switch on it. The TB cable is only $5 and you can buy it seperate under the X41 accesories page on their site.
   
  Yes this seems like a lot of cables but it is the best sounding and functioning Xbox set up I have had.  Most of my friends as well as myself play at a desk or a gaming room where the cables are managed and organized. Ill post up some pics of mine soon.


----------



## Styles

/img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Without sending the chat signal from the controller to the mixamp this set up doesnt really let you take full function of the game/chat knob. 
   
  In your Xbox settings for voice do you have it set to play over the speakers instead of the default headset setting?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I had the HD598. If the modded HD58 is the same as the HD598, the that is the BEST way to go (I honestly don't believe that it is, unlike the modded 555 and 595, *Sennheiser can't possibly be that stupid to do such a thing again).*


 

  
  http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
   
  This shows the 558 and 598 as having the same driver.  And, lo and behold, Sennheiser put another piece of foam on the 558 same as the 555.
   
  I have no idea how they compare though before and after the foam is removed.


----------



## chicolom

I do wonder what driver is in the PC360's though.  The 555-595 driver or the 558-598.  And also if the PC360's have a foam strip as well......


----------



## Jani

Quote: 





styles said:


> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Both. I got voice volume at 10 and game volume 5. When im in a party chat with my bro playing some bad company i hear him loud and clear. Only prolem is that i dont hear my own voice from the headphones which if remember correctly the traditional mixamp setup will give you


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





jani said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  [size=10pt]You are only using the mixamp for the 5.1 DD sound and not the voice feature.  In the Xbox settings by having the voice chat setting play over both the speakers and the headset, you’re really only playing them through the speakers.  Read the setting closely, the voice volume setting ONLY applies to when you are in private chat during a game not regular chat during a game.  That’s why your bro sounds so clear when your playing in private/party chat.  [/size]
   
  [size=10pt]Are you using the Astro Mixamp?  I’m only asking because you said “traditional” mixamp.  The mixamp does not mix your voice very much, just ever so slightly over the speakers like a telephone.  That is a feature of the Turtlebeach X4 and X41’s to help keep you from yelling in the mic.[/size]
   
  [size=10pt]In the end the Astro mixamp should be set up with the cable from the controller to the mixamp to be able to use the voice chat/game knob, hence the “mix” in mixamp. [/size]


----------



## Jani

Astro mixamp here and yes only use it to get "5.1". To hear chat from others better without party chat, you can put the game sound down from the games own menu, to bring just game volume down. Then turn volume up from the mixamp, this brings both game and chat (even if it's coming from the speakers) levels up. Makes hearing others a littlebit better. I do it this way to get away from the cable mess, and the worst, most annoying cable in the astro setup is the controller to mixamp one


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





jani said:


> Astro mixamp here and yes only use it to get "5.1". To hear chat from others better without party chat, you can put the game sound down from the games own menu, to bring just game volume down. Then turn volume up from the mixamp, this brings both game and chat (even if it's coming from the speakers) levels up. Makes hearing others a littlebit better. I do it this way to get away from the cable mess, and the worst, most annoying cable in the astro setup is the controller to mixamp one


 


 I see and I agree about the cable from the controller to the mixamp.  Here is my set up, as you can see I use the Turtlebeach cable there (white) so I can mute my mic.

   
  I have it set up on this light weight table that I just slide toward my recliner there.  Dont mind the wiring set up, just bought this house and finished that rack and am still working on wire routing.


----------



## Eric_C

Seems like a lot more wiring than I anticipated for the MixAmp. I wonder if anyone has used the MixAmp 5.8?


----------



## Riku540

It's a lot simpler on PS3 and PC. Just USB and/or optical, and headphones. No controller cable and mp3 player is optional. Mixamp 5.8 would be the same, except now the optical and USB are plugged into the transmitter, and the headphones into the receiving unit. This means if you need to use a headphone amp in addition to then the whole wireless thing is negated... unless you need it to be really far away from the source.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





styles said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Someone who actually owns a Beyerdynamic MMX 300 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . How do you like it?


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 They are the sickness!!  This is my 4th gaming setup and best so far. Soon I'm going to add a headphone amp as well.  They are my first set of headphones of this level for anything and now I'm hooked.  I'm researching a desktop audio set up for my desk at work amp and phones now.  Reading all the info I can to learn more as I listen to music the majority of my day.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

I have the mixamp 5.8 and It is really not that a wireless set. In case you can cut your headphones and mic cables short, they would be nice... but with 2-3 meters cables for headphones it will be too much cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You COULD just wrap up your headphone cable...
   
  To me, the purpose of the wireless Mixamp 5.8 isn't about it being true wireless, but not needing to run a cable between you and where your stuff is.
   
  In my case, I have a small stand next to my couch near a power outlet. I can discreetly keep my Rx unit near me to the SIDE, and when I need to power it to recharge it, I can run a USB plug to the outlet next to me. With all this, the only cables anywhere near me is the Headphone's and controller cable for chat (whenever I do use it, which is rarely). There won't be anything running across the ground as it would with the other Mixamps/AX720/DSS/etc.
   
  With the old Mixamp, you need a long USB and a long Optical cable across the ground as well. It's a pain in the ass, which is why I have my current Mixamp near a stand next to the TV on the side, so it won't be all in the way. The problem with this is that I can't move it much closer because the cables don't reach where I sit, nor do I want them to. Too much clutter.
   
  I'll be getting the Mixamp 5.8 sometime VERY soon. Probably sell my battered first gen for like $40 to a friend, optical cable included.


----------



## flkatk

i got me a dt880 250 ohms + e9, thinknig about upgrading my pc source


----------



## LukaTCE

I mixamp realy worth ? in europe i can find is cheapest in  http://www.roxxgames.de/index.php?cPath=112_121_124
  mixamp is 115€ and 5.8 130€
  I most play games on PC so i think it would be better to go with soundcard any recommend for budget 70 (100) € ?
  I have xbox 360 but curently just playing SP (single players) maybe i will go on MP (multiplayer) later
  And what about ear force dss  i saw on forum  bass is so heavy they can't hear footsteps
   
  And i think HD 558 is better to go then 598 coz cost 40€ more  ?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





flkatk said:


> i got me a dt880 250 ohms + e9, thinknig about upgrading my pc source


 

 So...you want a better soundcard? You should list your current one or people won't be able to give you any suggestions on a better one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My new Mixamp 5.8 should be arriving hopefully next week or so. 
   
  Luka, I'm not sure about the 558 sounding the same as a 598 once the foam is removed. The one person I read who has heard both the modded 558 and 598, stated that they don't sound excatly the same, and makes the treble harsh on the 558. YMMV. I personally would just get the 598 through Electronic Expo with the DEALZON coupon.
   
  http://dealzon.com/deals/sennheiser-hd-598-headphones
   
  That's assuming the deal is still working.


----------



## LukaTCE

Thx for link but after clicking on coupon it redirect me to http://www.electronics-expo.com/make-a-store/item/SENHD598/Sennheiser/HD598/1.html
  I see u are CZ (Czech) do they ship to europe (Slovenia) ? and also about warranty


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, they are redirecting you to the site where you're supposed to buy it from. Once you add it to your cart, there is a box for coupon codes. You put it DEALZON, and the HD598 sells for like $163 or so.
   
  Don't know where they ship.
   
   
  Lol, I'm not Czech, I'm Puerto Rican. CZ is initials for 'Chaos Zero' which I used a long time on web forums.


----------



## jronan2

I made a thread regarding this just before and I just found this gaming thread so I wanted to ask over here too:
   
  I have the e7/e9 combo. I have the ath m50's and dt 900/600 that are absolutely amazing for heavier rock/hip hop techno etc. Being a heavy hip hip listener thee can are everything i wanted. I am also a gamer and play heavily on xbox I have the razer carcharias and 2010 astro mixamp and i use my dt 990's sometimes too. I am looking for my next headphone purchase to serve 2 purposes: I want it to be beast for xbox in terms of soundstage/enemy detection all the good stuff, but i would also like a headphone that can be a great option for classic rock soft modern rock. My spectrum is wide; for of my favorites are tom petty, hootie and the blowfish, chili peppers, daughtry, nickelback, taking back sunday , metalica, paul simon etc. I don't really like the dt 990 or m50's for that type of music even though i find the m50's more acceptable then the dt 990's. I was considering the ad700's but i thought i could opt for something better since i have the e7/e9, so driving whatever cans really isnt an issue. What do you guys think?


----------



## Riku540

Just wondering... What do you find lacking about your DT 990/600's? They're already one of the best for the sub $300 range. The AD700's will be a competitive upgrade by a reasonable margin but a huge downgrade music-wise. I don't see things getting significantly better unless you take it up a price range above the DT 990/600 or two...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I said on that thread, skip the AD700 if you want bass.
   
  Might I suggest the HD598? It's mid rich, very clear, and musical. It has plenty of soundstage, a complete beast in positional cues for gaming, and does music well, if you're into a mid and treble centric sound. The bass isn't lacking, but it isn't prominent either. I'd consider it a baby K70x without it being so anal about amping, though the E7/E9 definitely helps it quite a bit.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Like I said on that thread, skip the AD700 if you want bass.
> 
> Might I suggest the HD598? It's mid rich, very clear, and musical. It has plenty of soundstage, a complete beast in positional cues for gaming, and does music well, if you're into a mid and treble centric sound. The bass isn't lacking, but it isn't prominent either. I'd consider it a baby K70x without it being so anal about amping, though the E7/E9 definitely helps it quite a bit.


 

 I just want to find a killer gaming solution and will compliment rock type music. The dt990's were impressive for gaming, but I don't know what to compare it to since i never tried anything in its class. Do you know what i'm saying? I'm not too worried about the bass presence, the ath m50 and dt 990 offers me the best of both worlds with the closed tight prespective(m50)  and then the airy open feeling with the dt 990. I jut might have to give it time with my dt 990's tho everything is still very new just revieved the fiio combo and dt 990's last week. Are the hd 598's open or closed? And how was the band? i heard senn's have cracking issues


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the 598 still has that issue. It is open, with a slightly large soundstage than the DT990. More of that airy sound to it, too.
   
  Umm, seeing as you got all these things very frequently, I'd hold off on over saturating your ears with all these headphones. Get intimate with the headphones you have. Although I'm one to talk as I owned so many damn headphones the past year, I would say that the M50 is still one of my fave closed, and the DT990 is one of my fave open headphones.
   
  If you're not worried about bass, then I'd suggest the HD598 to complete what you have. Though I'm not sure if they appeal to rock.
   
  Kinda hard to go for gaming AND rock.
   
  I'd say use the DT990 for gaming, and maybe a pair of Grados for rock?


----------



## Riku540

On a totally unrelated subject, I just made a vow on facebook not to buy another headphone until I can afford the Audez'e LCD-2.
   
  And because I'm a total nerd, when I do get it I'll be far too curious as to how it sounds with the Mixamp... lol. Oh yes, Orthodynamics for gaming...
   
  Think I'll make or break the vow?


----------



## jronan2

lol bro i been following you for some time i remember when you said the K701 and DT990 were gonna be around for a while. You go through headphones mad quick lol. But I'm like that too you get involved in something and it just takes a hold of you. Look at me I just got a bunch of stuff and I'm already asking about new cans lol. But  I think your absolutely right I didn't even get used to all the new equipment yet, they all deserve time.  I'm going to let everything properly break in and test everything out eventually i'llsee what i like/ dont like. I only thing that comes to mind is the treble on the DT 990's. I haven't decided if I like it or not. Like some songs I love it and some songs I'm saying to myself thats a little harsh. The bass is perfect to me. Not too much not too little.
   
  But man now with the e7 and the LOD 3 the ath m50's are nuts. I just can't beleive how good those cans are. Really just blown away when I'm on break at work layin down or before bed just rockin out with the e7 and m50s its just an amazing set up for me. I know everyone says that the m50's dont have to be amped but if you ask me i think amping it is definetly worth it. Huge difference with my 4th generation ipod touch.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think you can do it. Me, I only wanna buy one more headphone... something fully open for work use and when my D7000 gets too hot at home. I had to take them off because they got too hot, so I'm using the PC360 for non-gaming use atm. I'd like something a little more music oriented.
   
  I'm aching to get the MS1i (comfies only...I don't CARE what bowls or flats do to the sound, I ain't sacrificing comfort). It's just... I'm not sure I'll like the comfort even with the comfies on.
   
  I don't want anything too huge either.
   
  M50s are awesome. <3


----------



## Riku540

I got my friend the old MS1 a long time ago. If the comfort is the same then I'd say it's fair. It's more of what it's comfortable in comparison to... which is usually the bowls. I'm not nearly as picky as you when it comes to comfort so I was perfectly happy with the bowls for 5 hour sessions back in the day. In comparison, the comfies are much better, but I'd say Beyers are far more comfortable by a long shot.
   
  I know you don't like the AD700's wing system; to me they're fine, and because the wings don't have a fitting issue with me the AD700 wins the comfort battle by a long shot for me.


----------



## jronan2

I want a gaming solution before anything. I have a nice set up xbox slim wired controller, razr onza on the way, viewsonic 2250 led monitor astro mixamp 2010. Right now i'm running the razer carcharias just because i got them for so cheap and the sound quality is actually really good. The mic on it blows tho for some reason the mixamp doesn't power it well enough becuase the mic is crazy sensitive on pc. I did try the DT990 very quickly didn't really give it a deserving shot but I do like to play with a mic. I have thought about the pc 360's but on the mlg forum it just that a lot of people didn't think they were as amazing as they hoped they would be. I would take your opinion over many tho since you do have audiophile quality equipment and a lot of experience with headphones since your always changing lol. I'm gonna try and be patient tho and continue to research, but to me its stupis to have a $130 mixamp with a $70 headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700 is LOL-HUGE to take to work, and they aren't exactly what I'd consider great for music.
   
  I'm VERY close to just going for the MS1i and calling it a day (they would seriously only be used at work and when the D7000 gets too hot). I wish Alessandro sold them through Amazon too. Grado does with their headphones, but the only one I'd consider is the SR225i and 325i which are too expensive for what I want them for and both come with bowls, not sure getting comfies for those would be ideal. At least the MS1i comes with comfies, so they were designed with those in mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I want a gaming solution before anything. I have a nice set up xbox slim wired controller, razr onza on the way, viewsonic 2250 led monitor astro mixamp 2010. Right now i'm running the razer carcharias just because i got them for so cheap and the sound quality is actually really good. The mic on it blows tho for some reason the mixamp doesn't power it well enough becuase the mic is crazy sensitive on pc. I did try the DT990 very quickly didn't really give it a deserving shot but I do like to play with a mic. I have thought about the pc 360's but on the mlg forum it just that a lot of people didn't think they were as amazing as they hoped they would be. I would take your opinion over many tho since you do have audiophile quality equipment and a lot of experience with headphones since your always changing lol. I'm gonna try and be patient tho and continue to research, but to me its stupis to have a $130 mixamp with a $70 headset


 


  The PC360 is spectacular, especially if you get them south of $200. For gaming, they ARE amazing. MLG gamers are too into their stupid ass A40s to realize what good sound actually is. Okay, now I'm just being biased. I didn't like the A40s.
   
  The HD598 is even BETTER for gaming than the PC360, but the versatility of the PC360 wins for me over the SQ improvement of the HD598.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> The PC360 is spectacular, especially if you get them south of $200. For gaming, they ARE amazing. MLG gamers are too into their stupid ass A40s to realize what good sound actually is. Okay, now I'm just being biased. I didn't like the A40s.
> 
> 
> 
> The HD598 is even BETTER for gaming than the PC360, but the versatility of the PC360 wins for me over the SQ improvement of the HD598.


 
  Mad lust just one question . Do you usually use your pc 360 for music ? or your m50s?
  And how do the pc 360s fare in music reproduction?
  greets


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I picked up a pair on ebay from a very good seller for under $200. He has some that are up for auction but he also has a few up for "Buy It Now or Best Offer". I made him an offer of $180 on a $250 Buy It Now pair and it was accepted ($8.95 S/H).


----------



## jronan2

Yea the hd598's look sexy and probably are amazing but I think if i got another headphone i would want something harder to push with my e9. Plus the pc 360's are attractive because of the built in mic. I don't really want a ghetto rig i was thinking of the labtec lva 7330 with the ad700's but it just doesn't seem like a good music performer. Where is the best place to get the pc 360s? I see most people are getting them for around $180, Can anyone show me where to buy if i decided to. O and how does the mic work with the mixamp? I havent heard much talk about the mic quality. How much better is the hd 598 than the pc 360? Is it drastic?


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> I want a gaming solution before anything. I have a nice set up xbox slim wired controller, razr onza on the way, viewsonic 2250 led monitor astro mixamp 2010. Right now i'm running the razer carcharias just because i got them for so cheap and the sound quality is actually really good. The mic on it blows tho for some reason the mixamp doesn't power it well enough becuase the mic is crazy sensitive on pc. I did try the DT990 very quickly didn't really give it a deserving shot but I do like to play with a mic. I have thought about the pc 360's but on the mlg forum it just that a lot of people didn't think they were as amazing as they hoped they would be. I would take your opinion over many tho since you do have audiophile quality equipment and a lot of experience with headphones since your always changing lol. I'm gonna try and be patient tho and continue to research, but to me its stupis to have a $130 mixamp with a $70 headset


 

 From your set up it looks like your on top of your game comp wise with those tools. I missed the pre order on the Onza, blam! sucks. I can say that the mic on the Beyer MMX 300 is top notch and the sound cant be touched by the A40 set. See my pics.


----------



## dub Beatz

The thing I like about most gaming headsets is their convenience. It's quite obvious you're paying the hefty price for the convenience rather than sound quality. The A40s are a ridiculously expensive headset for the sound, however they make a good argument when stating the headset works really well for competitive gamers. The mixamp, with the ability to create a direct inline chat channel, the good quality microphone, the durability, the relative comfort etc etc. It's just too bad they're so expensive. Honestly, I would deal with the lack of sound quality if they were priced around $80 rather than the $250 or whatever they're set at. Hell, most pro players get these things for free, so what's to complain about? For the rest of us (The Educated) as I like to refer to us as, there's the headphone and microphone combo with a mixamp. Or if you want to get more simplistic, theres the MMX300 or PC360. Hell, because I'm stuck on campus I leave my AX720s up here. They get the job done, and I don't feel like leaving my precious sound equipment laying around my apartment, even though I trust my roommates. Some people will pay the price for convenience, it's just too bad we can't get a headset that has it all. Maybe one day...


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





styles said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 how much did the mmx 330's cost? Prices I'm looking at are mighty pricey, def an option to consider tho. If I'm going to sacrifice for a headset tho it's def got to have a very good mic tho. Like I said I'm a member over at MLG forums and everyone raved about the razer carcharias being up to par with many headsets and even better than most. I can vouch for the sound quality they really are good, it's just the mic is really bad its not responsive at all i almost have to yell for anyone to hear me clearly. If the mic was somewhat decent we wouldn't be having this convo. And I don't even use my mic that often I find with black ops I talk less and less. When i was playing Reach I was communicating every match. Even though I don't use my mic that often I really want to have that option when things get serious. It looks like the PC 360 or MMX 300 are probably the best option. I dont care how good the reviews are on the 2011 a40 headset I  probably won't even consider it.


----------



## dub Beatz

Lol, the only thing they changed about the 2011 revamp is that pads. The pads add more bass. Same drivers, same headphones.


----------



## Arc6

When I used to game, the general concensus was that you needed the headphones to have a USB. I noticed that a few of the cans don't come with USB attachments, the rest I'm unsure of. Do you find it as important, or do you use an adapter?


----------



## Riku540

The Astro Mixamp, being the key factor in this thread, is connected via USB to either PC or consoles (for different reasons). This allows any conventional headphone to be used, so no USB connection is needed from the headphones themselves.


----------



## Arc6

Thanks, but is it possible to get the same spatial awareness without a USB for games like CS and COD?


----------



## Riku540

If you're talking about headphones/headsets that come with a USB sound card or device of sorts, the Mixamp acts in place of this and provides far superior results.
   
  A lot of this information is already available on the first page and post of this thread. If you need more specific information on the Mixamp itself, the official page is here.


----------



## dub Beatz

Arc, you mentioned CS so I'm guessing you game on the PC? I really hope you don't play CS on the xbox, haha. Anyways, a soundcard will grant the same effect as a mixamp, granted you get an X-fi or a card with dolby headphone.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





> I really hope you don't play CS on the xbox, haha. Anyways, a soundcard will grant the same effect as a mixamp, granted you get an X-fi or a card with dolby headphone.


 
   
   
  +1 PC Gaming using a soundcard with Dolby Headphone (ASUS Xonar) is a far better solution than using a mixamp (flexible config & better audio as standard).
   
  Does the mixamp even have a DAC for direct PC use via USB?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yes. See page 25.
  http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_manual.pdf


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  [size=medium]Gaming is a hobby for me and I play Reach with people that count on communication. We have leagues that are for fun, but we play to win!  I got my MMX 300 for $250 from earphonesolutions.com before x-mas on special. A week later they went back up to $300.  I bought the mixamp for $120 new.  It was basically my x-mas gift "from my wife" this year, lol.  But I wouldn't have it any other way now.  I play in a dedicated gaming room at my house so I guess you could say I take it seriously.  The sound is the best I have had with no hiss like I have had with wireless Dolby Digital set ups from Turtlebeach. I hear sounds in games that I hadn't heard before.  The mic is na adult mic as in the boom places the mic correctly. All others that I have used don't place the mic in front of your mouth.  I'll get a pic of mine with the foam off, nice build and design and there is more technical stuff about it on Beyer's site you should read for yourself as well. I would love to do a side by side with mine and the PC 360, but I know I like the closed sound I get from the MMX 300 for sure.  I am going to add a headphone amp soon to get the total soundstage I know I can get out of them.  I'm going to try the E9 and the Asgard, one of them will end up at work for my music desk top set up for work and the other will be for the mixamp and gaming.[/size]


----------



## jronan2

A dedicated room..that's pretty sick! I have a corner of my room dedicated to gaming I should post some pictures of my set up it's pretty basic, but real clean and makes sense a lot of people seem to like it. I think I'm going to go with the PC360's if I can get them for $180. The MMX 300 is just too expensive at this point and even tho there closed I have the DT990 already to mess around with gaming. When I play Need For Speed or Forza 3 the DT 990's will be used. But I'm done for a while lol. Since christmas I have bought dt990, e7/e9 combo, astro mixamp, ipod touch 4th gen, xbox slim cuz i got red ring on christmas day lol, and the ath m50's were a present from my gf. So whatever happens I am done for a while and gonna enjoy this stuff. I'm getting like Mad Lust Envy I can't do that anymore lol. Anyone give me the most reliable/cheapest place to buy? I'm thinking ebay right?


----------



## Styles

The price is good for those and you did just get a ton of stuff.
   
  For everyone following this thread I would like to know if you have gamed with your Mixamp -> E9 -> DT990? If so how was that set up compared to running just the Mixamp -> DT990?
   
  sent you a pm too.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





styles said:


> The price is good for those and you did just get a ton of stuff.
> 
> For everyone following this thread I would like to know if you have gamed with your Mixamp -> E9 -> DT990? If so how was that set up compared to running just the Mixamp -> DT990?
> 
> sent you a pm too.


 
  I need more time to test out the e9 mixamp dt 990 but they sounded real good i didn't know the soundstage was so big, pleasantly surprised. I didn't use them that much tho because i can't stand playing without a mic, and i only had everything for a short time.  They will be used for my racing games before anything, and for fps when i don't care about communicating.


----------



## Xpresser

Doorbell just rang and....
   
I 
   
  I bought the PC 360 off ebay 1 week ago today from razordogdeals2008. It was shipped from Minnesota to Oregon. Highly recommended seller. Make him an offer.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> Doorbell just rang and....
> 
> I
> 
> I bought the PC 360 off ebay 1 week ago today from razordogdeals2008. It was shipped from Minnesota to Oregon. Highly recommended seller. Make him an offer.


 

 Bought them off the same dude for $179 like 3 hours ago lol..he had the best track record and best prices...what shipping service does he use?


----------



## Xpresser

UPS. I got it for $180 so we are right there. No padding/peanuts in packaging but everything looks fine. There is absolutely zero documentation from Sennheiser. Not even a warranty card in the box. No big deal but I think it's the first time I've seen nothing in a box except for the product itself. I looked on Youtube (PC 360 Unboxing) to confirm I didn't get a return or open item. Watched 3 different videos and they were all the same...just the headset in the box.


----------



## jronan2

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> UPS. I got it for $180 so we are right there. No padding/peanuts in packaging but everything looks fine. There is absolutely zero documentation from Sennheiser. Not even a warranty card in the box. No big deal but I think it's the first time I've seen nothing in a box except for the product itself. I looked on Youtube (PC 360 Unboxing) to confirm I didn't get a return or open item. Watched 3 different videos and they were all the same...just the headset in the box.


 

 very weird...maybe mad lust envy or anyone else that bought the 360's brand new can confirm this?


----------



## chicolom

Its true.  The ONLY thing inside the Sennheiser box is the headphones in a plastic bag.


----------



## QuietKungFu

Yep, all I got the same thing.  Just a box with no documents.  I contacted the seller and asked what I do about a warranty since there is no info in the box.  He said just head on over to http://www.sennheiserusa.com/serviceandsupport_register and register your headset.  Then, if it needs any servicing, the serial number will match to the numbers for his store, and the ebay invoice will serve as your receipt.  The headset is awesome, thanks for the review MLE.


----------



## LukaTCE

So what is better to go HD 598 for 160 € or PC 360 for 100€ (idk why PC 360 is so cheap now)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want a dedicated headset, the PC360 is better as it has a mic attached and volume control on the right cup. Very versatile. The HD598 is make no mistake, noticeably better than the PC360 is terms of overall SQ, but it is a headPHONE, not a headset. I gladly gave up some SQ for the versatility of the PC360. I honestly don't need my gaming SQ to be any clearer than the PC360. No to mention that the PC360 is easier to drive than the HD598 from my experience.
   
  Soundstage and positional accuracy is pretty much the same.


----------



## LukaTCE

So i would need amp for HD 598 or Creative X-fi titanium will be good for it ? and about mic i don't need is so much i just care of sound quality and if is worth to pay 60€ more for HD 598
  Is there any mic mod for HD 598. From HD 555 and 558 reviews i saw they removing foam inside ear-cup and that improve sountage
   As i can see from this AD700 mic mod http://www.halo3forum.com/pc-hardware-tech-support/275245-fragtalitys-audio-technica-ad700-boom-mic-mod.html mic is now blocking some holes on outside side of ear-cup that make sound worst ?


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Ouch I wanted to try out a pair of beyerdynamic's but they all seem to have gone up in price about $100 from where they were a few weeks ago.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





lukatce said:


> So i would need amp for HD 598 or Creative X-fi titanium will be good for it ? and about mic i don't need is so much i just care of sound quality and if is worth to pay 60€ more for HD 598
> Is there any mic mod for HD 598. From HD 555 and 558 reviews i saw they removing foam inside ear-cup and that improve sountage
> As i can see from this AD700 mic mod http://www.halo3forum.com/pc-hardware-tech-support/275245-fragtalitys-audio-technica-ad700-boom-mic-mod.html mic is now blocking some holes on outside side of ear-cup that make sound worst ?


 


  Just a heads-up...Electronics-Expo has the HD 598's back in stock and when you apply coupon code "DEALZON" you get an outstanding $84 off. Total price $165.11 (before shipping). By far the best deal for these cans that I can find right now.
   
  http://bit.ly/gl0lzF


----------



## Boerki

i'm thinking about getting the turtle beach dss and the dt 990 pro 250 ohm headphones. Is the dss inferior to the mixamp (the mixamp costs 50 bucks more)? You tested the dt 990 premium cans, is there much of a difference to ones im planning to buy ( apart from costing twice as much)? I dont play competitive, i wanna use the headphones for single player console games, movies and tv series. So if i do not voice chat, i wont need an extra amp for gaming, watching tv or listening to music, would i? Greatings from austria and thx for your incredible guide!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DSS is on par with the Mixamp and AX720, but doesn't allow for voice chat unless you have a Turtle Beach headset (which you say you don't mind), and has less input options.
   
  The only TRUE options IMHO, is the Mixamp or AX720 amp.
   
  Pro model of Beyers clamp more, leading to smaller soundstage, more bass and harsher highs, according to Zombie-X. I had the DT770 Pro and it's definitely more clampy, though I felt they were more secure on the head, and the soundstage was still good.
   
  As for needing an extra amp... not for movies or gaming, but these gaming amps aren't made for music. They don't sound good for that purpose, IMHO.


----------



## LukaTCE

Mad Lust Envy what SQ improvement mean  when u said PC 360 is better coz of SQ improvement  over HD 598  what SQ mean
  So as u said PC 360 if i wana mic and adjustable sound volume in headset and HD 598 is better in sound quality


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SQ = Sound Quality. o_O
   
  The HD598 has better detail in the mids and highs. No contest there, really. They are definitely more mid and treble/high oriented, while the PC360 sounds more balanced as a whole. The bass in the PC360 is probably a little stronger than the HD598's bass, adding more to the immersion.
   
  Like I said, for practically all forms of gaming, I don't think you can go wrong with the PC360 as your one for all solution. I even like it for single player gaming, probably moreso than the HD598 due to more bass for immersion, but I still feel the HD598 is on a slightly higher level, sound quality-wise.
   
  I'd like to add that I edited the PC360 and gave it a 7.0 in fun factor (from the preview 6.5). They do have more bass than I credited them for initially. Not bloated, but more enjoyable, as opposed to the HD598 being a little on the lean to neutral side when it comes to bass.


----------



## Boerki

But for my purpose (gaming without chatting and watching tv via my ps3) the dss is equal to the mixamp?

And would you recommend the creative aurvana live? Its half the price of the pro beyers.

If not, would you take the 990 or the 770?

Thx for helping me out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you ain't using voice chat, nothing wrong with getting the DSS. Just get it.
   
  The Creative Aurvana Live makes a better fun can than competitive can. For the price, it's great, but won't compare to the Beyers, though I felt they were slightly better as a whole than the DT770 Pro 80 (which had too much bass for competitive use).
   
  I'd probably go with the 990 Pros if I had a choice. That's assuming they sound somewhat close to how the Premiums sound.


----------



## BChizzle

Great , i just ordered the ATH M50s .... after reading this, my excitement just went down the drain.


----------



## Boerki

Since my budget is limited, i'll order the dss and the creatives. I can still upgrade in the future. And anythings better than tv speakers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think you'll be disappointed, though I believe your first of headphones should be open, to be wowed more by the virtual surround. Tempted on saying the modded HD555 probably would yield the best result in the low price range, though I haven't heard the HD555 yet.


----------



## BChizzle

@Mad Lust Envy : Are the K701 or 702s are good for music? Also, what amp should i get with it? (If i was to buy one) Thanks


----------



## Boerki

Well than ill get the 990 pros instead, they are open and got more bass i think. My wallet says no, i say yeah


----------



## LukaTCE

What i would need for xbox 360 to be hdmi and optical connected at same time ?
  Is xbox gaming better then pc ?  i think in xbox just nobody cheat and at pc almost every kid cheat


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





lukatce said:


> What i would need for xbox 360 to be hdmi and optical connected at same time ?
> Is xbox gaming better then pc ?  i think in xbox just nobody cheat and at pc almost every kid cheat


 


  Don't start a flame war, son.
   
  PC or console, they have their own pros and cons.


----------



## NapalmK

Whoa I just noticed this thread. Great writeup! Thanks for taking the effort to put this together. Your thoughts mirror my own on most of the cans I've had. I definitely agree on your findings with the K701. I recently repurchased a K701 as my main gaming can. I still need to give the LCD-2 a go to see how it compares but it keeps slipping my mind.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





napalmk said:


> I still need to give the LCD-2 a go to see how it compares but it keeps slipping my mind.


 

 Really interested in this as I have made a vow not to buy another headphone until I can afford the LCD-2.


----------



## pcgamer

How would the JVC HA-RX700 fall into the mix?


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





pcgamer said:


> How would the JVC HA-RX700 fall into the mix?


 


  At less than $34, it's one of those that I would just buy and try out to see for myself. If you end up getting them and then not liking them...give me a shout. I'll buy them off you.


----------



## matryx

How would the Ultrasone HFI-780 compare to the DT990 for gaming/movies? The HFI-780 are on sale for $170 and I'm thinking of picking them up.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> @Mad Lust Envy : Are the K701 or 702s are good for music? Also, what amp should i get with it? (If i was to buy one) Thanks


 


  They are both incredible for music.


----------



## NapalmK

Quote:


matryx said:


> How would the Ultrasone HFI-780 compare to the DT990 for gaming/movies? The HFI-780 are on sale for $170 and I'm thinking of picking them up.


 
  I personally would go with the DT990s for gaming and movies unless you need some sort of isolation. From what I remember the Sones (Pro650/750) did well with gaming but not to the level of the DT990s. Still it has been awhile since I've listened to either so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Well, I have K702 and DT990, and for me, they both sound great with music.
   
  With classical/female/acustic the K702 sound much better than DT990, but with rock DT990 bass has more impact.
   
  Fiio E9 drives K701/2 without any problem at all. Also Matrix m-stage is a well-known amp for K701


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





matryx said:


> How would the Ultrasone HFI-780 compare to the DT990 for gaming/movies? The HFI-780 are on sale for $170 and I'm thinking of picking them up.


 


  The Hfi-780s would give you more of a theater-like experience. A lot of people praise them for gaming, but there are also some people who say they never found them astounding for gaming. It's a toss up, primarily because Ultrasone uses S-Logic, which is basically supposed to emulate surround sound with the way the drivers are angled etc. When you pair that with something else that attempts to emulate surround sound, you can either get one badass surround effect or a horrible, cross reflecting sound cues. I don't have any experience, but I know I almost bought them specifically for gaming and movies. $170 is a sick price, they are also closed.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I didn't realize they are closed. I had to consider them because the were on sale and on Amazon they were one of the few that actually ships to Canada. The search continues I guess. I'm still waiting on a good price for some DT990/600ohm or DT880/600ohm.
  There's a Long and Mcquade near me that sells the DT990 Pro 250ohms and the DT770 PRO 250ohms but I don't know how they compare to the Premium 600ohms. They are all around $180-$200


----------



## bthrb4u

Hey man good review and thanks.  I too am on the upgraditis side of things.  I do however suggest you check out the a40's again as i have owned every gaming headset possible for the xbox.  From tritton 720's to turtle beach's mixed with the mixamp to my all time favorite the a40 mixamp combination.  The a40's really are kind of bland and don't have a fun appeal to them in anyway and suck for music.  Soundstage on them and pinpoint accuracy is top notch though.  Of all the headsets i have owned the astros make everything else seem like a joke.  I also have tried the m-50 combo and just like you stated  they sound good for music but when it comes to sound stage -they make sounds and then they hit a brick wall.  I was so disgusted.
  I am interested in trying out the k701s as you have suggested but i am very much considering diving in for the ah-d5000's as they are a company primarily focusing on home theater and music.  I have heard that the ahd line is rediculous when it comes to sound stage and can compare with most open back cans.  Very intriguing.  It shows that you currently have the d7000 and i was curious as to what you think about them with gaming.  I know i will like them for music but i i really need that pinpoint accurasy from being wide and full of depth.  please reply. thanks
  tritton axpro=absolutely waste of money.  five speakers mixing up frequencies make for a disgusting blur of sounds.
  tritton ax-720=not a bad choice for gaming especially for the price.  bassy theater feel to them.  sound positioning will leave you turning your guy left or right to try and get a more precise location.  fun for campaign though.  Has potential but still feel like i'm listening to speakers
  Astro mixamp turtle beach hpx= mixamp is amazing turtle beaches are straight up garbage, do not waste your money
  astro mixamp a40.   For competitive gaming only.  You do not feel like you have headphones on.  makes you feel like you are in the game.  everything is soft sounded but really does a good job making sure you hear all the suttle sounds.  Very airy for music but when you hear footstep on mw2 you know exactly where they are at no questions asked.  While playing search and destroy i can let team mates know exactly where the sounds are coming from no questions asked.  If there is a sound i tell you exactly where they are at.


----------



## bthrb4u

black ops uses a dynamic compression audio setting.  Setting the setting on loud disables this so you have to have it loud to hear the smallest things.  having it set to quiet makes it enabled and makes it so the smallest sounds are amplified. hope this helps and yes it was researched and found on the black ops website


----------



## pcgamer

For people with a good dedicated internal sound card, why do they also get a DAC? Isn't the sound card already doing the conversion? Also I hear some gamers getting the USB Audio-gd Sparrow. In order to have some sort of 3d effect they would need something like a Mixamp correct?

As far as gamer sound cards go, is the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD the best for headphones? It sounds like CMSS is superior to Dolby Headphone. So that would knock everyone off the list but Creative right? Creative has a few CMSS products that are a little cheaper, but they look several generations older. Reviews say that they can hear a difference between the Titanium HD and other X-fi products. I'm just not totally buying it.

I see that there is a little something mentioned about closed headphones, but nothing in depth. Does anyone have any experience regarding closed cans for gaming? Is there a similar thread to this for closed cans?

I'm considering getting the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD >> Little Dot MK II >> DT990/600

Does that look like a pretty solid setup?

My only concerns is that in a loud environment that the DT990s wont be able to keep up. And the life or a tube amp if I use my PC 24/7 for Youtube, web browsing, movies, music, games, window start up tones... you get the picture. Not just for easy listening several hours a day or 1-2hr gaming sessions. This would be for everything. So I started to consider maybe the FiiO E9 or HeadRoom Total AirHead amp. But then I read that they aren't as warm as a tube and that you may need a tube to make the DT990 more tolerable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Closed headphones are a lot more sensitive to Dolby Headphone. Some can be really good for gaming, but some can be lackluster due to an enclosed sound. Soundstage isn't IMPORTANT, but it really helps with picking out directional cues around you. The sense of space really helps me out. That's why open headphones are usually better.

I think someone asked about the D7000 with gaming. I already gave my thoughts. Check the first post.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Closed headphones are a lot more sensitive to Dolby Headphone. Some can be really good for gaming, but some can be lackluster due to an enclosed sound. Soundstage isn't IMPORTANT, but it really helps with picking out directional cues around you. The sense of space really helps me out. That's why open headphones are usually better.
> 
> I think someone asked about the D7000 with gaming. I already gave my thoughts. Check the first post.


 

 DH on my closed HFi-780s was ok but felt artificial on the reverby modes and a little congested. In contrast tho Denon D2000s sound generally like an open can and feels closer to my DH favorite the mighty HD650. I still prefer the D2000 for gaming due to the livlier feel and deep bass.  This may change as I have a ultrasone pro900 on the way and are meant to have pinpoint imaging and are basshead royalty so they may be my ultimate 'phone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I hadn't bought the D7000, I may have given the Ultrasone Pro 900 a whirl. Now, it's kind of moot, lol.
   
  My next headphone venture will most likely be a Grado. Thinking between the MS1i, or SR225i with comfies. Not sure which yet, and these aren't intended for gaming use, ever.


----------



## jronan2

Mad Lust Envy: ( or anyone that has used the astro mixmp with the fiio e9) I want to experiment something. I already use my dt990/600's via e9/mixamp with a 3.5 mm male to male so I know how to hook that up. I wanted to know if you can use the e9 and mixamp with a headset and have the voice ability be used. I tried the conventional way like how my dt 990's worked as e9->3.5->mixamp->dt990 in e9.. Now i tried my headset the same way but the y adapter into the e9 and the headset into the y adapter thinking it might work but it doesn't. Can this be done with a headset for vioce chat or can you only use the e9/mixamp for headphones?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Mad Lust Envy: ( or anyone that has used the astro mixmp with the fiio e9) I want to experiment something. I already use my dt990/600's via e9/mixamp with a 3.5 mm male to male so I know how to hook that up. I wanted to know if you can use the e9 and mixamp with a headset and have the voice ability be used. I tried the conventional way like how my dt 990's worked as e9->3.5->mixamp->dt990 in e9.. Now i tried my headset the same way but the y adapter into the e9 and the headset into the y adapter thinking it might work but it doesn't. Can this be done with a headset for vioce chat or can you only use the e9/mixamp for headphones?


 

 You could try going Mixamp -> Y-Adapter->3.5mm male to male (plugged into the green headphone plug) -> to E9.  Then run the mic past all of that back into the Y-adapter's mic input...


----------



## mcnoiserdc

exaCTLY. I do it that way
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Styles

I posted this before. Yes you can and thats the set up most of my friends have.  Mine is the same minus the amp for now, but I'm going to add one soon, prolly the E9 as well.


----------



## chicolom

Only _slightly_ more professional looking then my MS paint graphic


----------



## bthrb4u

Don't know how i passed the d7000 on your list but  i did manage. maybe i had thought i saw the audio tech 700s.  Thanks for everything again.  Also why the grado's.  Do the denon's not do it for you in terms of music?  I've been going through forums for the past couple days and one of the main threads is "headphones i regret buying the most" almost every other headphone stated on there was a grado.  Also going through a lot of the members on the sight i have not found hardly anyone that still has the grados just "had" them and none of them stating that they wish they had them back.  I know everyone's taste in music is different and i know from bmx riding that nothing is ever going to be exactly what you want.  When forced to deal with what i've used after spending tens of thousands of dollars i was forced to reconsile with mixmatching parts that i knew worked for me in the past and i couldn't have believe how confortable i felt knowing that had made the right choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh hell no, the D7000 MADE me stop looking for another music phone. I'm looking at Grados now because I want something fully open I can take to work that isn't lol huge. I work quiet nights alone and tend to have my headphones on for about 4+ hours a night, but I can't be isolated from outside noise, which is why I want Grados. I've also always been curious about them. The KSC75 serves this purpose very well but I wanna try something a little higher up in the audio food chain.


----------



## KingStyles

If you like the d7000, it does get better. Now you need to step up to the LA7000.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm 1000% completely happy with the sound off my D7000. I don't wanna tweak ANYTHING about them. The bass is perfect, the mids are perfect, the treble is JUST the way I like them, sparkly. The LA7000 would make the bass more subdued, the mids more forward (I don't need them any more forward), and the treble smoother. 3 things I DON'T want or need. No thanks. That and I don't even like the modded woodies. The stock D7000 cups look the best, IMHO.
   
  If I wanted an 'improvement', I'd rather just save up on another pair of headphones with a different sound, which I have absolutely no interest in other than mere curiosity in the Ultrasone Pro 900, LCD2, 325i, RS1i, and the high end Stax models. That's pretty much it.
   
  I have found a headphone I'm honestly completely happy with otherwise, that is the D7000. Seriously, they really did cure my upgraditis. Everything else is a sidegrade to downgrade, as I would never spend more than what I paid for these ($600).


----------



## dub Beatz

There's that old avatar I remember you by .


----------



## LukaTCE

I liked his old avatar 
  Just ordered HD 598 and x-fi titanium  hope i get it in 2 days so i will report about sound quality.
  How much time is needed for headset to be burned in ? (sry for my english)


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm 1000% completely happy with the sound off my D7000. I don't wanna tweak ANYTHING about them. The bass is perfect, the mids are perfect, the treble is JUST the way I like them, sparkly. The LA7000 would make the bass more subdued, the mids more forward (I don't need them any more forward), and the treble smoother. 3 things I DON'T want or need. No thanks. That and I don't even like the modded woodies. The stock D7000 cups look the best, IMHO.
> 
> If I wanted an 'improvement', I'd rather just save up on another pair of headphones with a different sound, which I have absolutely no interest in other than mere curiosity in the Ultrasone Pro 900, LCD2, 325i, RS1i, and the high end Stax models. That's pretty much it.
> 
> I have found a headphone I'm honestly completely happy with otherwise, that is the D7000. Seriously, they really did cure my upgraditis. Everything else is a sidegrade to downgrade, as I would never spend more than what I paid for these ($600).


 

 You are making me want a pair now... (even though that's been on my "list" for awhile)


----------



## Kazul

Mad Lust Envy, did you ever get the chance to try out the Astro A40 again?  I am looking for a replacement for my old headset to go with my X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty and am considering either the A30/40 or the PC360.


----------



## pcgamer

Consider the PC360 or MMX 300 before the A40.


----------



## dub Beatz

Don't even consider the A40 until they drop the price about $100. For how much they're charging it's an absolute gimmick. The PC360 has better directional cues and overall better sound quality. The reason the A40s are so expensive is because they're endorsed by MLG, which reminds us of what product... Beats...


----------



## Kazul

The only thing that keep me from picking up a PC360 right now is the price.  I was hoping to get something for about $200 or less.  Any other ideas for a headset?  I really want something with a mic and if I can't find anything that looks right the PC360 will be what I end up going with.
   
  PS I should also mention this is meant mostly for gaming with only casual music.


----------



## chicolom

PC360's can be had for $179-189


----------



## Kazul

Used?  Because new I see somewhere around $300 and the cheapest used I've seen was somewhere around $240.  I can see the PC360 is better but worth that increase in price?  If I am able to get one for about the same then no problem.


----------



## chicolom

Sent a PM for price...


----------



## pcgamer

Ebay had a few auctions for $179.99. I never seen more than one bid for them, so the winner got them for $179.99 

The guy just pulled all his listings yesterday. My guess because of this very reason 

Other got in on $249.99 (Or Best Offer) deals and won it with an offer of $180.


----------



## chicolom

I sent Kazul a PM for the same guy's website where the PC360's are sold.  I don't know why he pulled the listings, maybe they've been selling like hot cakes.  You can get similar price through the site.


----------



## Xpresser

If you're talking about who I think you are, I just bought the PC 360 off him last week for $180. Authorized reseller to boot. Anyhow I checked his items on ebay tonight and although he has plenty of other Sennheiser models he's no longer listing the PC 360. Maybe he just ran out of stock?


----------



## Kazul

I checked out the site and they seem to still have them.  Though it almost seems to good to be true.  I'll let you know when mine shows up.


----------



## pcgamer

http://stores.ebay.com/globaldigitalmediaexchange
http://stores.ebay.com/RazorDog-Deals


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





kazul said:


> Used?  Because new I see somewhere around $300 and the cheapest used I've seen was somewhere around $240.  I can see the PC360 is better but worth that increase in price?  If I am able to get one for about the same then no problem.


 


  Oh yeah dude. I wouldn't pay that much for the PC360s either. I would say the $180 price tag is justifiable. Definitely not $240.


----------



## LukaTCE

Can sombody tell how much hours headphone needed to be burned in ?


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





lukatce said:


> Can sombody tell how much hours headphone needed to be burned in ?


 

 generally 50 hours for the most benefit to time ratio. It'll improve more with time, but not as much as the first 50 hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll say just enjoy your headphones, and if you really want to, burn them in whenever you're not using them. It's how I have always done, though I have done pure endless burn in with breaks
   
  In the end, even after burning in headphones for over 300 hours, 95% of them are pretty much exactly the same as the first hour I used them.
   
  Don't put much stock in burn in, seriously. I'm in the 'psychoacoustic' camp, where I feel it's your own ears getting used to a headphone's sound and not the headphone's changing themselves. Only the M50 had an exttremely clear cut difference in an aspect of their sound within the first hour of burn in for me. That I will defend wholeheartedly.


----------



## LukaTCE

I thought burn in mean just to use them 50 hours  or that mean i need to use them 50 hours (50 hours in one piece) and not removing it from audio source ?


----------



## Boerki

My turtle beach dss and my dt 990s came today. I find the cans really cool, they got a cool bass and a super sound. Dead space with headphones becomes even creapier than it already is, and in dead space I found dolby headphone pretty cool. I think i'll need to use am a little longer to come to sequences were you really experience DH.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





lukatce said:


> I thought burn in mean just to use them 50 hours  or that mean i need to use them 50 hours (50 hours in one piece) and not removing it from audio source ?


 


  Don't worry about burn-in.  Just use them normally.


----------



## obazavil

razor dog deals ran out of stock. he told me had only 8 left when i asked him.
   
  In the end, i didn't get the pc360 since I had to buy other stuff (iphone 4 BT headset and a external 1TB hard disk )
   
  Since I only play online 2 times per week, I will live with my K702 and haul my E9 from work to home on weds and weekends 
   
  Anyway, for single player i don't think PC360 beats my DT990... and I'm going to tell my wife next week finally about E9 and DT990 existence


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, honestly. I've never gone through the burn in process before, as it defeats the purpose of becoming synergetic with your headphones. Listen to them as they change, (whether or not they change is debatable.)


----------



## Xpresser

I'm really liking the PC 360 for online gaming (PC) so far but I have this need to experience other setups. I have a Labtec LVA-7330 mic coming soon (bought it off a forum member here) and just today I bought these 3 items...


----------



## chinesekiwi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll say just enjoy your headphones, and if you really want to, burn them in whenever you're not using them. It's how I have always done, though I have done pure endless burn in with breaks
> 
> In the end, even after burning in headphones for over 300 hours, 95% of them are pretty much exactly the same as the first hour I used them.
> 
> Don't put much stock in burn in, seriously. I'm in the 'psychoacoustic' camp, where I feel it's your own ears getting used to a headphone's sound and not the headphone's changing themselves. Only the M50 had an exttremely clear cut difference in an aspect of their sound within the first hour of burn in for me. That I will defend wholeheartedly.


 
   
  There very real scientific mechanical evidence for burn-in in dynamic transducer headphones and academic literature (and my own impressions) is really says the first 50 hours for full-size headphones, about 20 hours for earphones. Balanced armature earphones don't require burn-in but suffer timbre tonality issues however you can reproduce mid frequencies easier and allows for, such as in the SoundMAGIC PL-50, a more compact design if wanted.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I'm not sure why everyone thinks they are not allowed to listen to their headphones while they are burning in.  If burn in is real it will take place just as fast while the headphones are on your head, so don't worry about it so much people.


----------



## dub Beatz

It's not that they think you can't listen to them, they just don't want to hear them until the headphones are at optimal performance. So as not to be disappointed upon receiving brand new headphones and not hearing entirely what many claim to hear.


----------



## Eric_C

Actually it might not be that folks think you can't listen to them, but that you can continue burning them in even without listening to them. That's a useful point to note when you've got new headphones that you can't wear at work or class, for example.


----------



## Boerki

I've got my dt 990 pro headphones for three days now, and they sound great for gaming, movies and music. But my problem is that they just have too much pressure and after some time, it just gets really uncomfortable. Can i do sth about that? Are all headphones like that? Are shall send them back to amazon and get others instead?


----------



## matthewh133

Mad Lust, do you play with Dolby Headphone when playing FPS games with something like the AD700/K701/598? I haven't done a lot of comparing, but on quick analysis the sound stage seems to be just as good or better with it off with these headphones as the sound stage on them is already incredible. What's your thought on this?


----------



## dub Beatz

Always play with Dolby Headphone enabled. Stereo is terrible for FPS gaming, I don't care what anyone says. Digital processing should always be on when playing a game where directional cues are everything.


----------



## matthewh133

I don't possibly see how enabling it could be any better at all. I can pinpoint exactly where people are, be it up, down, behind etc. I know for a fact that it isn't "terrible" on the AD700/900s.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> I'm really liking the PC 360 for online gaming (PC) so far but I have this need to experience other setups. I have a Labtec LVA-7330 mic coming soon (bought it off a forum member here) and just today I bought these 3 items...


 

  
  My package arrived. Video of the unboxing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoaLLQAchjk
   
  Yes...I quoted my own post.


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I thought you're gonna unbox all three :s


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





canoners said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was but it would have took too long. I'll post an actual "unboxing" video tomorrow.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> I don't possibly see how enabling it could be any better at all. I can pinpoint exactly where people are, be it up, down, behind etc. I know for a fact that it isn't "terrible" on the AD700/900s.


 


  On stereo? You use headphones just on stereo for fps? I mean I'll be entirely honest, I used to use stereo headsets too back long ago. Then I was introduced to digital processing, such as CMSS3D and DH and I can say without any second thoughts that I would never ever go back. There are so many advantages to using digital processing that using headphones in stereo for gaming just seems utterly insane. I don't remember seeing if you had tried DH or not, but if you haven't I would definitely suggest using it. It's a night and day difference. This is, of course, my opinion. It is however shared with hundreds of thousands of gamers across the planet. Hell, maybe even millions.


----------



## Riku540

This thread is starting to go in circles in regards to Dolby Headphone vs. stereo. Read back a few pages on the debate, but in the end this thread is a guide for those interested in the potential these headphones have with Dolby Headphone. If you disagree or have doubts, then look elsewhere.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Mad Lust, do you play with Dolby Headphone when playing FPS games with something like the AD700/K701/598? I haven't done a lot of comparing, but on quick analysis the sound stage seems to be just as good or better with it off with these headphones as the sound stage on them is already incredible. What's your thought on this?


 


  I dunno if it went completely over your head, but even the topic titled states I game SPECIFICALLY with Dolby Headphone. DH is EVERYTHING to me. My first post has my thoughts on EVERY worthy headphone I have used with DH including the K701, AD700, and HD598 which are pretty much the top 3 spots for competitive gaming for me.
   
  Umm, soundstage (the sense of space and distance between sounds) is one thing, but directionality (positional cues) is something else. I find that DH ON gives me the full 360 degree directionality I want, while stereo mode sounds one dimensional to me. The level of DEPTH between DH on and Stereo is by no means a comparison, as DH is SO much better than normal stereo. YMMV. To me, it was like opening my eyes (or ears) when I went from stereo to DH.


----------



## Boerki

Made lust envy, could you answer my question from the top of the page, please?


----------



## bisayaboi

My HD650's work quite amazing for gaming. Anyone else have any opinion on them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





boerki said:


> I've got my dt 990 pro headphones for three days now, and they sound great for gaming, movies and music. But my problem is that they just have too much pressure and after some time, it just gets really uncomfortable. Can i do sth about that? Are all headphones like that? Are shall send them back to amazon and get others instead?


 

 The Pros are known to clamp a bit more than Premiums. I had the DT770 Pros and I too found the clamp a bit too strong for my taste. You can stretch the headband outwards a little (it's metal, don't worry). That shouldn't be a reason to return it, just try stretching them out first. Perhaps over some books, or folded over pillows, or if you're adventurous enough, bend it with your hands yourself. I'd grab both cups and spread it outwards a little.


----------



## wheelzat

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 I'm with you Mad Lust. I notice a huge difference even with my TB DX11. Just for the heck of it, I turned off the DH on the DSS and I could no longer pinpoint my enemies with the same accuracy. I'm really looking forward to getting my HD598's that I just ordered from J&R for $171 shipped. It will be nice to hear a good headphone. This forum is a wonderful resource that I'm glad that I've found.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You called me a person for stretching my DT770/80s! They clamped my head way too tightly, lol.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I've been interested for a while if anyone has turned off dolby headphone when using a good pair of headphones like the AD700's/k701/dtxx0's.  All I seem to see is people saying, "Well when I turned off dolby headphone, my cheap piece of crap no soundstage headphones didn't give me good positional cues."  I for one find that CMSS 3d completely ruins the sound on my ad700's when I turn it on.  Haven't tried them with dolby headphone, but I have absolutely no problems telling distance and direction with them in pure stereo mode.  
   
  My plan is to try out a higher end DAC next like the DAC Magic or Music Streamer II+ (likely this one) because they are reported to really expand soundstage and seperation in comparison to lower end DAC's.  I'm really starting to notice some unsatisfactory noise and artifacts coming out of my xfi prelude so I will most likely sell it off to fund better equipment.


----------



## Boerki

Thx mad lust envy, i'll try that. I hope i'll be able to stretch them enough, cause at the moment they're just way too uncomfortable.


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ... (Jun 19, 2020)

....


----------



## matthewh133

Deleted to keep thread on rails.


----------



## dub Beatz

Hey, MLE. I'm really getting sick of you having tried all of these headphones. Every time I think I'm settled down for a permanent can, you buy a new pair and talk about how amazing they are. I think I'm set on closed cans for gaming, and I want to buy a beat all end all can for everything. Music, movies and gaming. Gaming primarily and then music. The sad thing is, on campus I don't do gaming at all, which is about three and one half months. I'm digging speakers for music in my apartment. Headphones are great for detail, but the separation and open feeling I get from speakers, on top of the thumping bass when it's needed from the woofer is just so much fun to listen to. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I have my heart set on the D7000. The only problem is, I'm looking at a good long time before I can afford them. So I want to sell all my cans, and get some D1100s for mobile use, and D7000 for everything else. I'm guessing the D7000 have the fun, theater like experience the DT770/80s gave me? I'm just almost positive they're way more well rounded, with better mids, controlled bass and non ear piercing highs or sibilant treble. If this is correct, then I will assume you're going to donate your pair of D7000s to me, simply because we're best friends and I know how much you love me. I'm just kidding. Seriously though, donate them to me... Or not... But please do... If you want... But if you don't it's ok... No it's not...   
  Anyways... Peace, buddy.


----------



## Scytus

He has not tried the Pro900's!
   
  Which I really want him to, as I would kill for gaming impressions from his perspective x]
  
  Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> Hey, MLE. I'm really getting sick of you having tried all of these headphones. Every time I think I'm settled down for a permanent can, you buy a new pair and talk about how amazing they are. I think I'm set on closed cans for gaming, and I want to buy a beat all end all can for everything. Music, movies and gaming. Gaming primarily and then music. The sad thing is, on campus I don't do gaming at all, which is about three and one half months. I'm digging speakers for music in my apartment. Headphones are great for detail, but the separation and open feeling I get from speakers, on top of the thumping bass when it's needed from the woofer is just so much fun to listen to. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I have my heart set on the D7000. The only problem is, I'm looking at a good long time before I can afford them. So I want to sell all my cans, and get some D1100s for mobile use, and D7000 for everything else. I'm guessing the D7000 have the fun, theater like experience the DT770/80s gave me? I'm just almost positive they're way more well rounded, with better mids, controlled bass and non ear piercing highs or sibilant treble. If this is correct, then I will assume you're going to donate your pair of D7000s to me, simply because we're best friends and I know how much you love me. I'm just kidding. Seriously though, donate them to me... Or not... But please do... If you want... But if you don't it's ok... No it's not...
> Anyways... Peace, buddy.


----------



## dub Beatz

The nerve of MLE...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love you dub. Lol.

Its been almost 2 months since I've had the D7000. I have NO intentions of upgrading from them, so take that as you may, but you know I upgrade like every few weeks. No more. They smoke the crap out of everything I have tried so far. You loved the DT770 Pro 80, right? Well consider the D7000 everything the DT770 Pro aspired to be. Seriously, for less than 600 dollars, I'd sell off everything I could and get these.

The bass goes so low, its ridiculous, but the detail is untouched. I seriously wanna know how Denon did it.

The only thing the DT770 offers over the D7000 is isolation. The D7000 is huge, so since they are something I use at home, isolation isn't an issue, and they don't leak out THAT much. In fact, I don't understand how people complain about noise leakage. Unless you are literally 5 feet from someone, the noise shouldn't be any issue.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





scytus said:


> He has not tried the Pro900's!
> 
> Which I really want him to, as I would kill for gaming impressions from his perspective x]


 

 The PRO 900s are an excellent headphone for gaming, especially considering they are closed. The AD700s are better for positional queues, but still, the PRO 900s are excellent for this and they have the bass to make it an excellent all rounder for movies and music too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here are the headphones I would still like to try for gaming (realistically speaking):

Senn HD555 (modded) and 595 (wanna see if they truly sound the same, and if they truly are like the PC360)

D2000 (see if it can be a bang for buck with gaming performance like the D7000)

Pro 900 (because S-Logic intrigues me, and you guys really make me wanna try them)

Sony MDR-F1 (because I hear great things about it with Dolby Headphone)

K271 MKII or K272 HD (I see it as a closed K70x, which would probably make them killer competitive cans)

And if I was rich:

Stax (gotta try them at some point)
HD800 (soundstage bigger than AD700 and K70x? Yes please)


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Here are the headphones I would still like to try for gaming (realistically speaking):
> 
> Senn HD555 (modded) and 595 (wanna see if they truly sound the same, and if they truly are like the PC360)
> 
> ...


 


  Please get the Pro 900 and compare it to DT990 lol jk


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I love you dub. Lol.
> 
> Its been almost 2 months since I've had the D7000. I have NO intentions of upgrading from them, so take that as you may, but you know I upgrade like every few weeks. No more. They smoke the crap out of everything I have tried so far. You loved the DT770 Pro 80, right? Well consider the D7000 everything the DT770 Pro aspired to be. Seriously, for less than 600 dollars, I'd sell off everything I could and get these.
> 
> ...


 






. This much sounds promising. I honestly don't care too much about isolation. The DT770s isolated a lot, to the point where my mom would have to come up the stairs into my room and smack me on the head to get my attention, only after yelling to me at the top of her lungs for 5 minutes. Of course, this is only when I'm home, which is rare. My apartment has incredibly thick walls, which is a blessing because the entire complex is bumping every night from thursday to sunday. So many killer parties here. Anyway, thanks for the extra bit of feedback.


----------



## milo88

I have the d2000 and the mixamp for about a year now, been gaming on ps3, and watching 5.1 movies with the combo.  I must say the denon performed up to my expectation, I knew DH could never match a real surround set up. I could make out which direction sound is coming from clearly, except the ones directly from the back (left back and right back are fine). Playing dead space 2 on this set up is really exciting, and scary. I could pinpoint exactly where the necromorphs are coming from, but I do get one or two that comes directly from the back and ended up with issac's spine ripped out because it sounded like its from the front ;X


----------



## dub Beatz

But if you're concerned about whether or not it's coming from the front or back, and don't see anything in front of you wouldn't you instinctively turn around? O__o


----------



## Eric_C

dub: he could've been facing those invisible necromorphs.


----------



## dub Beatz

I forgot about them... They're sneaky.


----------



## milo88

I hear alot of noises in that game that sounded like necromorph but turned out to be ambient, thats how it is designed, creepy.


----------



## dub Beatz

Haha, I hear you. Dude, I hate when you enter a seemingly abandoned room and you're like. "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG." And you walk around listening and looking and all of the sudden... *CRASH BOOM* "BBLLLLEEEEGGGGGHHHHH AAAHHHHHHH AARRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH BLBBLLLLLLLUUUHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! >=O >=O >=O" (Necromorphs coming out of the vents.) And you're like, "AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH SHHH**********TTTTTTT" And you jump and accidentally hit like 5 keys on your keyboard and click the mouse by accident and like shoot the air and then scare yourself even more from the loud gun shot and you basically have an aneurysm. I don't know if that's how it happens for you guys, but that's essentially the rundown of my Dead Space experience each time I enter a new room. The worst is when you spam the hell out of the gun to detach their limbs and you're like "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG" and their limbs won't detach and they just crawl at you on their torso like "BLLLEEEGGGHHHHH UUUUHHHHGGGGHHHH AARRRRRRRRRGGGHHH." Then you scream IRL and run the other way and close the door and need a few minutes to gather your composure. You finally muster up the courage to open the door... And then all of the sudden... "BBLLLEEEEGGGGHHHH UUUUGGGGHHHHH BLLLLUUUUGGGGG!!!!!!" The friggin necromorph is right on the other side of the door and you crap your pants. So you finally kill the thing and what's right behind it? Two more necromorphs and one of those tentacle baby things so you're like "AAAAAHHHHHHH OMG OMG OMG OMG." At this point it seems perfectly logical to run into the room just shooting at nothing, thinking maybe the AI will feel intimidated by your courage and run away. Then you realize it's a video game, and the necromorphs come right at you and jump on you and then eat your brains.


----------



## Eric_C

Excellent post. I feel like I just lived through the game.


----------



## dub Beatz

Thanks


----------



## tdockweiler

No Audio Technica ATH-AD2000? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I bet they could be far better than the D7000 for gaming, but who knows.
  I always wanted to try out the D7000, but the mids have me a bit worried. Some say they're forward sounding (?!) and others say they're recessed. 
  I think they can be had for $550-$600 these days if you get lucky and score a good deal.
   
  Was the K601 on the list of headphones you've tried? I can't remember if it was and I don't feel like going back and checking.
  I'm sure you may even prefer that over the K701. Hated the K702 for gaming. K601 has better imaging and a more accurate soundstage than the K702 IMO. I had both at the same time.
  K702 just has a clearer sound with more detail. K601 is still under-appreciated for gaming, same with the ATH-AD2000. I think maybe people just wrongly assume it's just a AD700/900 upgrade with the same
   
  Just for fun I tested out about 5 cheap pairs of headphones for gaming yesterday.
   
  I tested the DT-235, Grado SR-80, HD-497, KRK KNS-8400 and AKG K44. K44 was surprisingly decent and the soundstage was pretty good for such a cheap $30 headphone.
  KRK was the best and had the cleanest sound, but lost out due to it's only barely average soundstage. Obviously DT-235 is only really good for gaming if you make it circumaural with the DHP-II pads.
   
  AKG K240 Sextett is pretty terrible for gaming and I don't know why since I did like the K240 Studio for gaming. Totally the most disappointing headphone I've owned in awhile. I guess I had too high of expectations. Still better than the K240 Studio for music at least. Hard to believe they once sold for $80 new.
   
  DJ100 still gets my vote as the best closed gaming headphone under $100, but who the heck uses or wants to use a closed headphone for gaming?! Totally ruins the experience.
   
  Anyone use the MDR-V6 for gaming? I want to compare that to my DJ100.
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Here are the headphones I would still like to try for gaming (realistically speaking):
> 
> Senn HD555 (modded) and 595 (wanna see if they truly sound the same, and if they truly are like the PC360)
> 
> ...


----------



## matthewh133

I should have my AD2000 within 2-3 days. I'll be able to post here with how they are in games compared to the AD700/900 if people are interested. I play mainly CSS.


----------



## halehaler

OK, so I'm looking for some budget headphones for around £10-80, the Creative Aurvana's are £50, they scored 8, and 7.
   
  They KSC75's are £12, they scored 7 and 8, these are basically equal then, seeing as I play both competetive and fun games?
   
  Am I right saying this are similar standard for all round gaming headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let me make this clear once again, I base this entire thread off my experiences WITH Dolby Headphone. If you don't use it or something close to it, arguing about performance of these headphones is useless here. These headphones may perform better or WORSE to you if you play in stereo, use another DSP like CMSS, Silent Cinema or whatnot. DOLBY HEADPHONE is what I USE. PERIOD.

Tdockweiler, I won't look even once into Audio-Technica headphones for one reason, the 3D Wings. That completely ruins the higher end ATs for me. I absolutely despise that style of headband.

Do the AD2000 and D7000 compare? I highly doubt it. The D7000 isn't a headphone I would consider for competitive gaming, but more for the home theater sound they have. I'm willing to bet the AD2000 would be better suited for competitive gaming, not home theater sound.

I'm not even gonna start on forward mids or mid recession, as that topic seriously pisses me off. Its so blown out of proportion on here, I refuse to even consider debating this. The mids to me are either clear and audible or muffled and too silent. The D7000s mids are incredibly clear and audible. End of story.

As for K70x vs K601, I love the K70x because of its awesome detail. I find the positioning to be god tier, so going to a less detailed phone for more unnecessary positioning is a downgrade for me. 

As for closed headphones for gaming, well the large soundstage closed cans like the DT770 and D7000 would like to have a word with you. They are more geared towards fun gaming, but I could say that the positional cues may be even better than open headphones. But for the most part, closed headphones will have a sound too tight and restricted to recommend.

Halehaler, my scores shouldn't be compared. I base my scores off overall performance of the headphone itself, and not how it stacks up compared to others. Also, the KSC75 gets high scores also factoring price. Another also, the KSC75 is open and the CAL is closed. Due to the ridiculously low price, I would suggest getting both. The KSC75 is geared more for competitive gaming, while the CAL is more on the fun side.


----------



## BChizzle

Just a question ... area the PC360s for the PS3 also?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, yeah? It uses standard 3.5mm (1/8") jacks like most headphones. Of course, you'll need a way to connect them to the PS3 directly. I use the Astro Mixamp. The optical digital cable coming out of the PS3 connects to the Mixamp's optical input. As for voice chat, you'll need to plug in a USB cable from the Mixamp to the PS3. The Mixamp 5.8 (wireless version) needs a separate 3.5mm to USB cable (sold on their site) in order to get voice chat. I don't voice chat on the PS3, so I didn't get that cable.


----------



## halehaler

Sorry, this is my final question, hopefully it's not too stupid.
   
  Which mixamp do I get, it appears that only one website sell them in England and thats http://www.astrogaming.co.uk/product-listing.asp?action=search&category=15 There are 3, one is £50, one is £100 and ones £110; what's the difference?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one on the right is an extra Receiving unit for the Mixamp 5.8 (unnecessary for the most part).
   
  It depends on what you want.
   
  The left Mixamp is the wired version. Everything plugs into that. It's the one most widely used and known, but it can be cumbersome as after all cables and headphone are connected, you have one large pile of clutter that you pretty much have to be close to.
   
  The center Mixamp is the 5.8, which uses a 5.8ghz signal that transmit from the big transmitter (Tx) to the small receiver (Rx). The Rx is where you plug your headphone into and keep near you. The Tx is where all the inputs and whatnot go to. This way all the clutter is kept with the Tx hidden away, while the Rx is all you need near you.
   
  If you're using a desktop setup that you're next to, the wired Mixamp is all you may need. If you're planning on sitting down on a couch and don't want to be tethered to a device near your consoles, the Mixamp 5.8 is a better choice.
   
  I own both, and I can easily say that yes, they sound THE SAME (the 5.8 also has a bass expander button which adds a subtle amount of bass if you want). The 5.8 is wireless but it's not a typical wireless headset, instead letting you use any headphone 'wirelessly' through a frequency that is largely unused by other devices (2.4 and 5.0 are the most used). The only cable near you will be the headphone's cable, as well as the Xbox controller cable that you plug into the controller for voice chat. If you don't voice chat, you won't even need that cable. Also, with the rechargeable battery pack, you can use a USB cable to charge the the battery pack, or even use the USB cable to keep your Rx unit powered (though that sort of defeats the purposes of it being wireless).
   
  The wired mixamp has several inputs: 1 optical digital input (the one you will want to use), an RCA input (only worth using for stereo sources like the Wii), and a digital coaxial input (an older style digital input that has the same SQ as optical digital. You can buy an optical digital to digital coaxial converter that way you can plug in two game systems at once, though the optical digital will be the main input if both sources are turned on at the same time). That will add even more clutter.
   
  The wired mixamp also has a 3.5mm input for MP3 players so you can use your own music while playing your games.
   
   
   
  The wired Mixamp has the most features, but for the most part is a LOT to mess with.
   
   
  I'd personally get the Mixamp 5.8, the rechargeable battery pack for the Rx unit, and if you have multiple systems...
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-28734-Explorer-Selector/dp/B0002OF2FC/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1297700764&sr=8-5
   
  So you can switch optical inputs without having to attach/detach cables.
   
  Bear in mind, all that will start putting you over $200 for all this.


----------



## Xpresser

Just so all of you know...I'm seriously thinking of selling my PC 360's because of my love affair with my new JVC HA-RX900's. Yes I think they are that good for gaming. One of the most comfortable sets I've ever had on my melon as well. I attached a LVA-7330 mic to them (velcro) and it's gaming bliss. In my opinion of course.


----------



## halehaler

Ahh... thanks alot, I though that the one on the right was just a cheaper version 
   
  Glad I didn't buy it.
   
  I'm gonna go for the one on the right.
   
  EDIT- I meant the one on the centre


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You mean the center, right? 
   
  Make sure to include the rechargeable battery pack, just for practicality. I didn't and bought my own eneloop rechargeable batteries thinking they would charge through the Rx Unit.... they don't. Now I have to remove my batteries and charge them on their own time. A hassle. <_<
   
  Also, keep in mind the Mixamp 5.8 only has ONE optical input, so if you have more than one system, you'll have to get an optical switcher like I linked, or constantly remove the optical cables when switching.
   
  So for newbies:
   
  1. Mixamp 5.8 ($140)
   
  2. Astro Rechargeable battery pack ($20)
   
  3. Astro 3.5mm to USB cable ($10. Only needed if you plan on voice chatting through PS3)
   
  4. Optical (toslink) switcher ($20 on Amazon. Only if you have multiple game systems like a PS3 and 360. Do NOT get the cheap silver and purple one. TRUST me, it sucks. I'd get the black one.)
   
  4. 2 optical cables (buy them off monoprice or Amazon for dirt cheap. All optical cables have the same exact SQ, so the cheapest without heavy jacks work best). The 5.8 brings a very frail optical cable so use that as the one that goes from the switcher to the Mixamp.
   
   
  That will be all you need. The Mixamp 5.8 brings all other cables you need.
   
  Oh yes, not sure if I even need to mention this, but older XBox 360s don't have an optical out, so make sure to get the audio dongle that brings an optical out (when you use HDMI).


----------



## Boerki

I think necromorphs are already scary enough without being invisible...


----------



## tdockweiler

I hate "Wings" too on the Audio Technica headphones. The AD700 was the worst fitting headphone I've ever had because of this. They were extremely loose and had zero clamping force. I did all the mods without much luck. I almost had skipped the ATH-AD2000 because of this but I'm glad I didn't. I'm not trying to convince you to give their headphones another try, but people who hate the wings on the AD700 (like me) might be ok with them on the ATH-AD2000. The AD2000 fits perfectly fine and has much more clamping force. It doesn't move an inch on my head. The overall feel is almost like the K702 on my head. The W1000 however looks like it might have the same fit as the AD700. I hope not.
   
  Yeah I meant that the AD2000 might only be better for competitive gaming. The Denon D2000 to me felt like an open headphone, but I still hated it for competitive gaming. I'm sure the D7000 is much better.
   
  I get tired of the mids issue too. It seems you can find ANY headphone on here that has recessed mids! I've even heard it said about the K501. I think I do prefer slightly forward mids for gaming though. That's why most very neutral headphones just don't seem to cut it for me for gaming, with the K240 Studio as the exception. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be though. My best advice to people on the mids is just try it out with your own ears and take everything with a grain of salt. Only you can tell if the mids sound recessed. I usually could care less what other people say as long as they sound fine to me. For example, the D2000's mids didn't sound recessed at all when I used my Asgard. These days I always go for the headphone with forward mids, since that's what I prefer for music 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I liked the Denon D2000 a LOT when properly amped, so I'm sure the D7000 will be a huge improvement. My next headphone to try is maybe the D7000 or W1000. Not like I need any more headphones!
   
  As for the K601 vs K702 thing, the imaging and soundstage on the K601 is so much better IMO (not larger, but more accurate), so for me it's worth using it over the K702. The level of detail is just slightly worse. The sound is also very slightly more clear on the K702. The main reason I'd prefer the K601 over the K702 for gaming is that what detail is there is more forward and "in your face", but still accurate. Footsteps are much easier to spot and are heard sooner. For those that are looking for an AKG gaming headphone, I highly suggest the K601 over the K702. For those with the K702 already, it's probably not worth buying. I miss my K601 already. Unfortunately the K601 is still overpriced. It seems like the only way to sell them used is to drop the price down to $160 or $170. That's what I had to do and I wish I didn't. A K601 for gaming at $160 is a steal.
  
  Quote: 





> Tdockweiler, I won't look even once into Audio-Technica headphones for one reason, the 3D Wings. That completely ruins the higher end ATs for me. I absolutely despise that style of headband.
> 
> Do the AD2000 and D7000 compare? I highly doubt it. The D7000 isn't a headphone I would consider for competitive gaming, but more for the home theater sound they have. I'm willing to bet the AD2000 would be better suited for competitive gaming, not home theater sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## halehaler

Ok, thanks for all your help I'm almost there now.
   
  There is only one thing I don't understand, what's all this optical stuff?
   
  I though you just plugged your headphones in the headphones jack, and your xbox360/ps3 controller into the controller jack?
   
  Why do I need optical cables and switchers, and  what do they do?
   
  Sorry I'm a total noob, these should be my last questions.


----------



## Riku540

Well... the Mixamp needs to be connected to your console... _*somehow*_.
   
  What good is plugging into something that isn't plugged into your system?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halehaler, the optical cable is what goes from your game system to the Mixamp. This is purely an audio cable. You know how HDMi is a video/audio cable that goes from your systems to your TV for picture and sound, right? Well, you need something going from the game system to the Mixamp to get sound, right? That's what the optical cable is. Of course the red and white cables (known as RCA)  also pass audio, but it's ONLY stereo. Optical sends Dolby Digital and DTS (though the Mixamp is a Dolby Digital decoder, not DTS).
   
  I suggest really reading up in the astrogaming website to see how everything is connected...
   
  There's no such thing as a stupid question, though most your answers are online on the very websites of the products you wanna look into. Google is also your friend.


----------



## 156219 (Dec 28, 2018)

Delete


----------



## Xpresser

edit: removed due to problem with review video


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> Did a comparison test video between the built in mic of the Sennheiser PC 360 and the stand alone Labtec LVA-7330. Pretty clear difference I believe.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3x1d8chgBg


 


  For some reason I'm having trouble getting any audio from the video...


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> For some reason I'm having trouble getting any audio from the video...


 

 Thanks for the heads up. I can hear it but I'm getting other reports that some can not. Not sure what that is about. I'll remove it for now and redo it.


----------



## canoners

The voice is there but it's really really small.


----------



## halehaler

So is this kind of optical cable good for the mixamp? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-1M-Goldspec-Resolution-Professional/dp/B002VBAZ60/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297753985&sr=8-2
   
  And will this act as a music amp for my KSC 75's? Or is it only built for games?
   
  Or shall I get a FiiO amp? The E5 is £17, The E7 is £64 and The E9 is £90?


----------



## Amnesia87

Quote: 





halehaler said:


> So is this kind of optical cable good for the mixamp? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-1M-Goldspec-Resolution-Professional/dp/B002VBAZ60/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297753985&sr=8-2
> 
> And will this act as a music amp for my KSC 75's? Or is it only built for games?
> 
> Or shall I get a FiiO amp? The E5 is £17, The E7 is £64 and The E9 is £90?


 
   
  Any optical cable is fine, it's a digital signal, so either you get all of it, or none of it, there really isn't a middle ground. That cable is a bit overpriced, but it will work fine.
   
  I'd advise picking the appropriate length cable from here: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229


----------



## milo88

Anyone tried using the ultrasones with the mixamp? I am curious how the surround tech they have works with DH


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





halehaler said:


> So is this kind of optical cable good for the mixamp? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duronic-1M-Goldspec-Resolution-Professional/dp/B002VBAZ60/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297753985&sr=8-2
> 
> And will this act as a music amp for my KSC 75's? Or is it only built for games?
> 
> Or shall I get a FiiO amp? The E5 is £17, The E7 is £64 and The E9 is £90?


 

 Get the cheapest cable that isn't ridiculously fragile. All cables have the same exact SQ (the sound is transmitted through light, you either get the signal or you don't).
   
  The Mixamp is NOT a music amp. If you use it as one, I'd suggest turning off Dolby Headphone when you do anything that isn't gaming or movies. It won't be better than something like the E7 or E9. I personally would skip the E5 and get the E7 for now. What do you listen music on? The E7 is a DAC and AMP. If you're mainly gonna listen to music off your PC, a DAC will override your soundcard and take over sound processing, which is almost always better than listening off a laptop soundcard.
   
  I forget what headphones you are going to have.


----------



## halehaler

Ahh... that's the problem.
   
  I have around £300 to spare on the headphones, but I'm only a kid and my paper-round gives me £90 a month, so money is harder to get back for me.
   
  I play around 70% competitive shoot 'em ups (call of duty) games, and 30% Adventure/Fantasy games. 
   
  I was thinking of getting the KSC75's for overall value for money they're £12.
   
  Or I thought of getting the AD700's for £130, then buying thr KSC75's as well, because they AD700's have very little bass, and the marginally better Fun Rating (6 on the AD700's and 7 on the KSC75's ).
   
  Then by reading your review the AD700's get similar scores to the HD598's, the only difference is the 598's cost £200 (£70 more) so I ruled them out. But they I saw the HD555's for £90 on offer, I heard these could be modded to sound like the HD 595's; do these sound like the 598's, because if so the modded 555's would replace the AD700's duo.
   
  Or then I thought if I want to have a decent headset that's pretty good for competetive gaming, and pro for general fun gaming just splash out and get the DT990's for £280, but that's a lot more dosh for what I can get.
   
  IN SHORT- KSC75's £12/ AD700's + KSC75's £145/ HD555's Modded+ KSC75 £100/ DT990's £280.
   
  Oh, and I will be listening to some music, pretty much all types apart from classic, county, techno and hard-rock.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I mentioned before, my scores should NOT be compared with other scores. My scores are based off what I think of the headphones themselves, and not how they compare to others. The AD700 vs HD598.... I like the HD598 more by quite a bit. But when you take price into account, the AD700 is seriously a stellar performer, though I would not EVER use them for pretty much any genre of music. I hate them as music headphones.
   
  Well, you don't really need an amp for these cans, so the Mixamp should be fine as your only amp for now.
   
  The HD555/595 and 598 do NOT sound the same. The HD598 is an overall improvement over the 595. It's more detailed and clear, but the HD595 has a more balanced signature (more even as opposed to the more mid and treble centric HD598).
   
  Going off what I hear off my PC360, I would probably suggest getting the HD555 and modding them to sound closer to the 595 over getting the AD700. They are also more comfortable. The AD700 is a love/hate headphone which to me is only good for FPS and detail whoring, while I believe a modded 555 will be better for most gaming and even enjoyable for music.
   
  Wait, are you getting the DT990? Since you're just starting, I wouldn't suggest geting the DT990 unless you are also getting an amp to help power it ALONG the Mixamp. That makes it considerably more expensive than your other options.
   
  For a starter getting the DT990:
   
  1. DT990
  2. Mixamp
  3. Music AMP (mine is the E9)
   
  I won't recommend this unless you have some disposable income.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





milo88 said:


> Anyone tried using the ultrasones with the mixamp? I am curious how the surround tech they have works with DH


 
   
  Page 3:
   
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> I own the Ultrasone PRO 900's, along with the AD700 and DT 880. I agree with Envy's ratings of the AD700 being 6/10 fun 10/10 competitive, and the DT 880's being 8/10 fun 8/20 competitive.
> 
> That said, my personal rating for the PRO 900 is as follows:
> 
> ...


----------



## halehaler

Thanks a lot, I've decided now.
   
  I'm getting the HD 555's and modding them, and I'm getting a mic.
   
  However do you have any recommendations on which mic. I should get? Ideally one that's buy able in England 
   
  And these don't need any extra FiiO amps right?
   
  Finally, would it be worth getting the KSC75's for fun laid back gaming, or do these trump them in every way.
   
  Oh and I've heard that these come with an issue with the band snapping after around 6 months, guess I'll just send them back to amazon for a replacement    
   
  And have you got a link to any good trusted mod guide?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





halehaler said:


> Thanks a lot, I've decided now.
> 
> I'm getting the HD 555's and modding them, and I'm getting a mic.
> 
> ...


 

 Theres a link right here on head-fi, easiest mod you'll ever perform in your life. Easier than if you were to mod your own body by biting your finger nails. Don't ask, just accept it... Lol. Anyways here's the link. http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/475511/hd555-foam-mod-video
  Also, as long as you don't treat the 555s like trash the headband won't break on you.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> For some reason I'm having trouble getting any audio from the video...


 


  OK...should work now. You still might have to turn the volume up a bit because I start with the mic boost off and then turn it on later in the video for testing reasons.
   
*Sennheiser PC 360 / Labtec LVA-7330 mic comparison*
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52hn--UArrU


----------



## dub Beatz

I was able to hear you quite clearly. Thanks for the comparison Xpresser.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good job Xpresser. =)
   
  Having owned both, I don't mind either mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkunPQMhN4
  
 Okay guys, this is a Dolby Headphone test that we can all listen to. I'm not sure we're getting a true DH signal, but more than likely a binaural or Pro Logic II signal (as DH only works if we actually have the ability to take a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal, which my computer doesn't.)
  
 In any case, it's a good representation of the kind of positional cues you are to expect from Dolby Headphone with your headphones. YMMV by whichever headphones you use, so test them all!
  
 I just used my netbook to E7/E9 to D7000 and PC360. Positional cues are top notch.
  
 A surprise is that the D7000 had a larger soundstage and could pick out the rear sounds better than the PC360. O_O


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





halehaler said:


> Finally, would it be worth getting the KSC75's for fun laid back gaming, or do these trump them in every way....


 


  I think KSC75s are worth getting for laid back gaming.  I still use my KSC75's and I have AD700's and PC360's   If I just get on to play half an hour or so i use them.  They are nice because they keep your head super cool and comfy but still give very nice sound and acceptable soundstage for the price.


----------



## dub Beatz

MLE stop changing avatar!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's like asking me not to breathe. You know better. =D


----------



## VulgarDisplay

So mad lust envy, have you noticed that the Ath AD-900's are going for around $200 on amazon lately?  Just thought I'd plant that seed and let your obviously immense curiosity take care of the rest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's just mean!

Nah, I read mixed impressions on them. Some say they aren't as accurate as the AD700 but are better balanced, and some say the price doesn't justify the improvement over the AD700.

In any case, 3D Wings made me not look at them twice. Just...never again.

I'm more interested in getting a pair of HD555 for work (need open), but would obviously mod them and try them out for gaming to see how it compares to the PC360.


----------



## dub Beatz

As much as I love the comfort factor of the ATs, I can't stand how ugly they are.


----------



## canoners

What the heck, I just reinstalled my Asus Xonar DX and when I tried DH, there's no change in sound. I remember it changed before the reinstall o_O
   
  edit: NVM, it's their faulty driver. Just don't go higher than 48kHz in the Windows audio properties.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





canoners said:


> What the heck, I just reinstalled my Asus Xonar DX and when I tried DH, there's no change in sound. I remember it changed before the reinstall o_O
> 
> edit: NVM, it's their faulty driver. Just don't go higher than 48kHz in the Windows audio properties.


 

 Yeah, that's one thing I absolutely despised about windows. Configuring the sound on your panel and on the card because sometimes when you choose to override the control panel it doesn't always work. Drivers drivers drivers... Man, I love this macbook. I do miss the power of my PC back home though .


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> As much as I love the comfort factor of the ATs, I can't stand how ugly they are.


 

 Have you ever seen the AD900's?  They look amazing.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, lol all ATs look identical. Full size that is. They just change the build structure and material of the ear cups. To each his own though. I just would never wear them around my apartment for others to see.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

later today, I will try to solve the problem with the microsoft bad design on the chat sound.
  I am planning to open a wireless headset and solder the  microphone and earphone cable to a 2.5 mm plug, so I can plug it on the wireless mixamp.
  That cable between the controller and mixamp is really annoying. I hope I will do it well!


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> later today, I will try to solve the problem with the microsoft bad design on the chat sound.
> I am planning to open a wireless headset and solder the  microphone and earphone cable to a 2.5 mm plug, so I can plug it on the wireless mixamp.
> That cable between the controller and mixamp is really annoying. I hope I will do it well!


 

 Damn, good luck man.


----------



## BChizzle

Mad Lust i have a question. Which headphones are better for GAMING ? The K701s or PC360s?


----------



## obazavil

I'm sure he will answer something like:
   
  best all-around headset: pc360 (great for multi, good for single player, mic included)
  god of fps: k702 (but they will need an amp for voice mixing)


----------



## Riku540

You have to define "gaming"...
   
  Are we talking Call of Duty or Lego Batman here?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> You have to define "gaming"...
> 
> Are we talking Call of Duty or Lego Batman here?


 


  I'm really hoping it's Lego Batman. I can't see the need for K70X in CoD, but with Lego Batman the sound is so critical. You never know when goons are going to come after you. Hell, the Joker could have appeared and you wouldn't know it until it's too late because your sound system sucks. I would say, the best cans for Lego Batman would be the HE-4 paired with the mixamp and EF5.


----------



## BChizzle

I'll be using these headphones mainly for FPS. CoD and KZ3 . 
  So are the K702s really the "god" of FPS?


----------



## canoners

God in terms of soundstage and positioning.


----------



## tdockweiler

No, not even close for me. Now this is only my opinion and I hope nobody hates me for this, but I think they're quire overrated for competitive gaming.
  Footsteps are even hard to hear and the soundstage to me feel artificially huge and not accurate. During one game I was standing next to someone holding a torch and they were standing about 2 feet away (in game).
  On the K702 it felt like they were 8-10 feet away. What the heck?! Of course the K702 are not bad at all for gaming, but I couldn't stand them. All the tiny details and footsteps felt quite distant. It feels as if they get lost in the huge soundstage. Imaging is also just average. I'd rather not mention all this and I don't want to take away from someone's fun they have with the K702, but it's just what I've found.
   
  More people should compare the K702 to the K601 for gaming and they may find out the K601 does most everything better. Of course this doesn't matter, just go what's best for your own ears.
   
  My favorite is the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000. I doubt anything can top that for competitive gaming. Not even the HD-598. I'm always on the lookout for something better.
  Of course buying the AD2000 for just gaming might be a tad overkill (unless you're VERY serious about gaming), but it's also a really good headphone for music too.
  Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> I'll be using these headphones mainly for FPS. CoD and KZ3 .
> So are the K702s really the "god" of FPS?


----------



## BChizzle

Do the AD2000s need to be amped?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> I'm sure he will answer something like:
> 
> best all-around headset: pc360 (great for multi, good for single player, mic included)
> god of fps: k702 (but they will need an amp for voice mixing)




This.

The K70x is still my holy grail for Dolby Headphone competitive gaming. However, I didn't wanna own so many cans for so many occasions so I settled for the PC360 for all my gaming needs, and D7000 for music use.

I started to think its silly to spend so much on gaming cans when they'd only be used for one type of game. So even though the PC360 doesn't come close to the K70x, they are still great, have a mic and volume control, and I don't need the improvements the K70x gives me. I also don't play as much as I used to. The K70x also has the problem of needing to be amped AFTER the Mixamp, which the PC360 doesn't need.

I think the best alternative is the HD598 (as long as you get it for the $170 range). Its like 90% of the K70x gaming performance, without the need of amping after the Mixamp (though I say it definitely needs an amp for music). Its better than the PC360, though doesn't have a mic and the looks are questionable (looks much better in pics).

As for the AD2000... the price is absurd for these, even used. Using them for gaming? Overkill, much? Of course, I expect the HD800 to be better than the K70x for gaming, but we're trying to be somewhat REALISTIC here, lol. This is certainly why I wouldn't recommend the D7000 as a first option. My recommendations for the most part will stick to under $250.


----------



## tdockweiler

Not at all, but of course they do sound best with one. I use them once in awhile straight out of my Ipod touch and they sound pretty good.
  Unlike the Denon D2000, I can suggest the ATH-AD2000 without an amp.
  Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> Do the AD2000s need to be amped?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would never suggest people look into $500+ headphones for gaming. I only brought up the D7000 because I happen to own them. If people ask me about them, I would let them know, but I won't go around recommending them. Let's be a little more reasonable and realistic. The AD2000 is ridiculously expensive.

As for the Denon D2000... I'm sure its easy to recommend as a fun can because for GAMING, the Mixamp would give it plenty of juice like it does for my D7000. We're not trying to squeeze out every little bit of detail when we're too busy blowing stuff up.

If you weren't to voice chat, the Mixamp has plenty of juice to make the K70x super enjoyable and detailed for gaming. Just that adding voice chat will severely underpower them.

The benefit of adding a powerful amp to the Mixamp for single player gaming wasnt worth the improvement. When you dedicate the Mixamp to fully power game audio, it has plenty of power for gaming, even for 600ohm Beyers, K70x. Not ideal, but you won't miss having to attach an extra amp.


----------



## BChizzle

Hm ,  I'm gonna take a look into these HD598s. Hope i won't get disappointed if i decide to purchase one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What are you gonna hook them up to? Also, they don't have as much bass as the PC360, making them not as well rounded for all types of gaming. They ARE more detailed and clear.


----------



## BChizzle

I don't have an amp. So probably just into my computer haedphone jack or my logitech speakers. I AM considering buying an amp though.. Also , what's a good site to purchase these?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you a gamer who uses Dolby Headphone? I ask because my recommendations are MOSTLY based off how these headphones perform with it. If you are playing in regular stereo, I can't guarantee the performance.

Also, the HD598 is gonna be underwhelming without an amp. As a console gamer, the Mixamp will make them great, but as a PC gamer without an amp, I don't think they're gonna do great.

I still suggest the PC360 for most needs. They are definitely easier to power.


----------



## BChizzle

I'm not sure what Dolby headphones mean, but yeah i play on console. My setup is like..Headphones-> Speakers->Monitor->HDMI->PS3 . I shoulda mentioned , these would probably be used a bit for music also. Currently im using the M50's for both gaming + music and it doesn't really impress me too much


----------



## tdockweiler

I try not to suggest them much because they're stupid expensive new and not worth $700 or whatever they are. I'm not even sure anymore. If I had considered a brand new pair I probably could not afford them or feel guilty about it. I don't listen to music enough to justify a $600+ headphone. I think for the very few that want the absolute best regardless of price, it's one I would have to always suggest. Some people these days have so much money that $600 isn't much. I wish I had that kind of money. What really shocks me is that even in this economy people still fork over 4k for gaming computers!
   
  The ATH-AD2000 with a little effort can be had for $425-$480 used. I got mine for $425 shipped and it was like new with box. I think that's a reasonable price considering how good it is for gaming and music and how it seems to be good for most every genre. $450 for a good headphone isn't too bad. I remember paying around $350 for my Triple Fi when it first came out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  EDIT: Wow, some moron is trying to sell a pair on amazon for.....$1099. What the heck?! Two pairs for $699. These are 100% not worth over $600 to me.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I would never suggest people look into $500+ headphones for gaming. I only brought up the D7000 because I happen to own them. If people ask me about them, I would let them know, but I won't go around recommending them. Let's be a little more reasonable and realistic. The AD2000 is ridiculously expensive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bchizzle said:


> I'm not sure what Dolby headphones mean, but yeah i play on console. My setup is like..Headphones-> Speakers->Monitor->HDMI->PS3 . I shoulda mentioned , these would probably be used a bit for music also. Currently im using the M50's for both gaming + music and it doesn't really impress me too much




PLEASE, look into the something like the Astro Mixamp. This adds Dolby Headphone, which is the virtual surround I use for console gaming, and the main reason I recommend headphones in the first place.


----------



## BChizzle

Did you purchase the Mixamp 5.8 straight from their site? Can you tell me how my setup would look if i DO buy the mixamp ? Currently it's Headphones-> Speakers->Monitor->HDMI->PS3, would it go between the Headphones and Speakers?   , ,, weouedasd,a


----------



## Riku540

PS3 > Optical > Mixamp > Headphones.


----------



## bthrb4u

if you are using hdmi you will need to connect the mixamp to the ps3 via optical cable(include in 5.8).  Then your headphone will plug directly into the mixamps wireless side.  You're done.  Without the mixamp you will only get surround sound which is basically a little bit of direction que but absolutely NO depth.  With dolby headphone from the mixamp you will be able to pinpoint people out exactly where they are(if you have a good headphone attached) MLE doesn't remember using the a40's but if you don't plan on worrying about music then to me these are the best headphone possible for first person shooters.  The imaging is right on and you don't feel like you have headphones on instead it has a really good headstage where you actually feel like the sounds are coming from in your head, like you're actually there in the game


----------



## BChizzle

Okay ,  i'm gonna purchase the Mixamp 5.8 and it's a tossup between the HD598's and PC360s. Once i make that decision i'm gonna buy.  Again this is mostly for FPS and a bit of music. I'm not sure how the PC360s are with music... so i'm leaning towards the 598s...What's a good site to get them from?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer the PC360 for music as the bass makes them slightly more balanced (everything sounds even with the rest of the sound), while the HD598 is slightly more mid and treble centric.
   
  The HD598 is cheapest at Electronics-Expo, but you have to find the coupon codes that brings them down to about $165 (sorry, I don't know it).
   
  The PC360 can be had for around $180, but I don't have it saved. You'll have to ask around. (check AVS on my sig, that topic has people that can help you).
   
  Just remember that the PC360 is a headset without a mic attached. 
   
  If you plan on getting them, make sure to get the PS3 chat cable (an extra $10), if you chat on the ps3. I don't, so I didn't get it, though I do chat on the 360.


----------



## bthrb4u

So you don't have a good headphone already for music?IF you really are into hardcore gaming and want the best then get the a40's and buy something different for music. Not sure if you said you had the m50's but if you did then you might as well use those for music because honestly the 598's might be good for music but it depends on what you listen to and what you want out of a headphone.  The 598 also needs to be post amped past the mixamp.  Doesn't even sound logical in any way to do this.  The a40 is your best bet.  It's an amazing headphone for gaming.  I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WITH THIS.   You will not be disappointed by them.  I know this is MLE's thread but he didn't even compare them.  They are the missing link of this thread.  Trying to blend the "PERFECT" headphone for gaming and music sounds almost to good to be true.(d7000 j money pads )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 does NOT need to be amped past the Mixamp for gaming. It however should be amped for MUSIC needs (not with the Mixamp attached), which I assume he listens to music away from his future Mixamp setup. I'd advise on NOT using the Mixamp for anything related to music.
   
  The A40s don't compare to the PC360, IMHO. I'm not alone in saying this. The A40s are overrated and overpriced.


----------



## BChizzle

I'm gonna go with the Mixamp 5.8 and PC360s then, and use this strictly for gaming. (Guess i'll buy some headphones for music later on). Where can i find the PC360's though? I've been looking for the past half an hour and they seem to be sold out


----------



## obazavil

Actually since Black Ops sound is so bad (and i'm so deaf) even with k702 i get backstabbed pretty often hehe... (not using ninja pro)
   
  I just bought Dead Space, hope the positioning is much better (going to play it with my DT990 tough)


----------



## bthrb4u

i've made this post before.  A LOT of people just like myself thought that the black ops sound set up was horrible.  Try putting your audio settings on  "QUIET"  this enables a black ops specific dynamic volume control.  It lowers and pushes each sound to be even with one another.  Loud setting is much different.  It makes the sounds more like it would be in real life. Helicopters loud and people trying to walk quietly hard to hear.  Hope this helps


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even on quiet, Black Ops's audio still sucks.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> I'm gonna go with the Mixamp 5.8 and PC360s then, and use this strictly for gaming. (Guess i'll buy some headphones for music later on). Where can i find the PC360's though? I've been looking for the past half an hour and they seem to be sold out


 


  I have a pair of PC 360's that I bought 2 weeks ago. Probably about 10 hours of use. Let me know if you're interested.


----------



## DukeSilver

Black Ops audio mix sucks compared to Modern Warfare 2. The running and walking sound sounds like people stepping on wet paper bags, it is competent enough though for me to still be able to tell where people are.


----------



## dub Beatz

I'm so done with the CoD series. It died after the first Modern Warfare. God I can't wait for BF3. It's going to revolutionize PC gaming the second time around. Battlefield 2 is still a marvel of a game. The best part, on PC they're bringing back 64 players, and apparently jets will be available on all platforms... Good luck flying a J10 with an xbox controller... Lol.


----------



## Xpresser

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> I'm so done with the CoD series. It died after the first Modern Warfare. God I can't wait for BF3. It's going to revolutionize PC gaming the second time around. Battlefield 2 is still a marvel of a game. The best part, on PC they're bringing back 64 players, and apparently jets will be available on all platforms... Good luck flying a J10 with an xbox controller... Lol.


 


  I love online play with Battlefield Bad Company 2 (PC)...even the audio blows me away.  I never did try Battlefield 2 or any other Battlefield game until I found Bad Company 2 but I also am looking forward to BF3. Would it be worth my time getting some BF2 experience before BF3 comes out or do they have similar game play to the Bad Company series?


----------



## Riku540

Eh, I haven't really enjoyed competitive play for some time now.
   
  I'm looking forward to Brink in a few months, and Rage in September.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> I love online play with Battlefield Bad Company 2 (PC)...even the audio blows me away.  I never did try Battlefield 2 or any other Battlefield game until I found Bad Company 2 but I also am looking forward to BF3. Would it be worth my time getting some BF2 experience before BF3 comes out or do they have similar game play to the Bad Company series?


 

 Don't bother getting BF2, honestly. They run on two different engines so they will feel like two different games. BF3 runs the same engine as Bad Company 2, so if you already play that you'll be better off when Bf3 comes out. I honestly can't wait for BF3, man. It's gonna be so stellar.


----------



## Spicy

Hi I've been having problems getting my mic to work on my PS3.
   
  I have my HD 595's connected and they work great but when I put a mic into the other plug on the Y-splitter my chat doesn't work.
   
  http://www.astrogaming.com/products/detail/71/Y-Adapter/
   
  ^ My mixamp came with this so I'm not sure what's the problem.
   
  Any help would be appreciated thank you.


----------



## DukeSilver

Guys i have a receiver that outputs dolby digital 5.1 and dts 5.1 to my headphones. I've used dolby headphone before, but i would like some thoughts whether its worth it to get a mixamp to use dolby headphone with my hd 555 or just stick with my receiver.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





spicy said:


> Hi I've been having problems getting my mic to work on my PS3.
> 
> I have my HD 595's connected and they work great but when I put a mic into the other plug on the Y-splitter my chat doesn't work.
> 
> ...


 

 Just like any other headset, you have to go to accessory settings and change your chat device to the Astro Mixamp. You should be using a USB cable to power, and transmit chat data from the PS3 to the Mixamp.
   
  Quote: 





dukesilver said:


> Guys i have a receiver that outputs dolby digital 5.1 and dts 5.1 to my headphones. I've used dolby headphone before, but i would like some thoughts whether its worth it to get a mixamp to use dolby headphone with my hd 555 or just stick with my receiver.


 

 We wouldn't be recommending it so much in this thread if it wasn't greatly superior to other options. Odds are your receiver is downmixing channels to stereo and not actually applying Dolby Headphone the way the Mixamp does.


----------



## BChizzle

Before i purchase the Mixamp ... do i need any of the additionals? Rechargable batteries ? Optical cable?
  Also, do the K701's work with the Mixamp?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> Before i purchase the Mixamp ... do i need any of the additionals? Rechargable batteries ? Optical cable?
> Also, do the K701's work with the Mixamp?


 
   
  Optical Cable. All headphones work the the Mixamp, and as stated before the K701 is one of the best in it's price range for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BChizzle, buy the rechargeable battery pack from Astro. Buy the optical cable from monoprice or Amazon (get it cheap).
  
  Quote: 





dukesilver said:


> Guys i have a receiver that outputs dolby digital 5.1 and dts 5.1 to my headphones. I've used dolby headphone before, but i would like some thoughts whether its worth it to get a mixamp to use dolby headphone with my hd 555 or just stick with my receiver.


 


  Are you SURE it outputs Dolby Headphone to your headphones? Unless SPECIFICALLY specified, all receivers downmix all signals to 2 channel stereo for headphones. Yamaha has Silent Cinema (which is something like Dolby Headphone, but different). I believe Harman Kardon receivers have a Dolby Hedphone option, and some other receivers use their own headphone surround modes if stated. You have to make absolutely sure it's true Dolby Headphone, or I can't guarantee performance with the same quality as the Mixamp.


----------



## BChizzle

Mixamp bought. Hope it doesn't take forever to arrive  Gonna purchase the PC360 also. Is audioheadstore a legit site?   Thanks for all the help btw. Much appreciated


----------



## mbyrnes

Quote: 





bchizzle said:


> Mixamp bought. Hope it doesn't take forever to arrive  Gonna purchase the PC360 also. Is audioheadstore a legit site?   Thanks for all the help btw. Much appreciated


 


  PM sent


----------



## bthrb4u

Like MLE has stated, the reciever must specify that it has db.  Most has surround mode or just stereo (2.0)  Don't take his Terminology of "downmix" the wrong way.  When  you set up your xbox there will be options that allow you to set your audio signal as 5.1 surround. Basically it is sending all digital data as 5.1 surround codec.  If given the proper tool (mixamp or receiver with DH) the code will be converted to analog that has positioning ques and everything else that a gamer needs audio wise. You should not think that the receiver is a bad choice for listening to music through though.  Many recievers these days actually have good DAC's in them (what they talk about when they say mp3  "restorer")


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Well if the ad900's stay around $200 when I finish my taxes this year I will be picking up a pair to replace my ad700's.  The ad900's are by all reports that I've seen a much better built headphone than the ad700.  They clamp tighter, and don't creak like the ad700's do.  Also they sound better, but retain that amazing AT soundstage.  
   
  Not sure if anyone else has used them, but I imagine them to be the actual holy grail for headphone gaming in terms of price/looks/performance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have read many times that the AD700 has better positioning and still slightly larger soundstage over the AD900. This is from gamers.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have read many times that the AD700 has better positioning and still slightly larger soundstage over the AD900. This is from gamers.


 

 I've had the AD900 and my brothers currently owns the AD700. The AD700 has a SLIGHTLY larger sound stage, but to be honest, it's barely even worth mentioning. That and the AD900 is a big improvement in the way it presents music. I'd go the AD900 if you have the money as I used that for gaming (CS:S) for a long time and it was absolutely incredible. You will never have an issue pinpointing enemies through walls with that headphone. I'd say the sound stage is 95% of the AD700s + you get much better music.


----------



## Riku540

I think the main reason the AD900's don't get a lot of attention is because once you get up to their price range there are better choices for the money. Especially at one point when the DT 990 could be had for about $180.
   
  Also, bada-bing, bada-boom. 1k.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Congrats, Riku. Wish I was there with you this long, but then I'd probably have like 4 flagships by now.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> I think the main reason the AD900's don't get a lot of attention is because once you get up to their price range there are better choices for the money. Especially at one point when the DT 990 could be had for about $180.
> 
> Also, bada-bing, bada-boom. 1k.


 

 But are the beyer's actually better than the ad900's?  Soundstage and imaging is king for a gaming headphone and I'm under the impression that the audio technica open backed headphones are the king of the hill in those areas.  
   
  The dt990 would probably make a great "fun" gaming headphone, but the forward midrange on the ad900's would probably bring out the footsteps in games better.  I'm guessing the perception that the ad900's have a slightly smaller soundstage than the ad700's is because they clamp a little tighter and have more forwards mids.  
   
  I am so close to buying a pair....    
   
  Just bought a hrt music streamer II+ and the way this thing has opened up the soundstage on my ad700's compared to my xfi prelude I can honestly say that dolby headphone is pointless.  No dolby box can provide the clarity I'm getting out of this thing.  It unfortunately causes some older games to crash to desktop so I can't fully uninstall the xfi prelude yet.


----------



## Riku540

Well, no real use in speculating if neither of us have tried the AD900.
   
  All I'm saying is that if the AD900 was the clear better choice in it's price range, it probably wouldn't be as uncommon as it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Using Dolby Headphone has nothing to do with soundstage for me. It's the way positional cues are presented to my brain. I HATE stereo positional cues. The soundstage could be the size of a football field. I still hate it compared to the way DH presents it. Of course stereo has the best fidelity, as its untouched and less processed, but I don't play to have the best possible fidelity. I play with DH for sound placement first. I'll choose a $100 DH setup over a $2000 stereo setup for gaming anyday. I don't like Stereo for gaming. Period.


----------



## Riku540

Agreed. Directional precision > how well you can hear the grass crunch in an enemy footstep that you can't tell where it's coming from.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That and stereo sounds less natural to me. Without some crossfeed (which consoles won't integrate), positional cues are heard only on one side. Tell me, when the hell do we hear sounds only with one ear? It's annoying and actually bothers my ears.

 DH doesn't have a generic cues. Putting you in the middle of a circle and letting you hear with both ears where sound is coming from sounds a lot more natural, even if the SQ sounds more processed.

Give me some true binaural gaming and then I'll consider tossing Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Riku540

Honestly, other than a _slight_ reverb I hardly notice any other differences in quality of sound when gaming using the Mixamp. It's really such a great piece of equipment and so fairly priced that you really can't say no it it.
   
  If only Astro would provide a line-out that allowed clean external amplification...


----------



## dub Beatz

So what was up with that Btrb4u something or whatever his name was. To be honest I knew he was going to get banned sooner or later. When he showed up he acted like the king of these forums, lol. Apparently his knowledge of the A40s is more than enough to claim he's more knowledgeable about gaming headphones than you or I or anyone else. Because let's be honest, those A40s are pretty incredible... NOT!


----------



## Riku540

I saw that thread and was off to a good impression until the finale... the A40's.
   
  It had to either of been a troll or someone who really... I don't know. I didn't see many responses before the thread "magically" disappeared.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah that OP was like getting a massage from an exotic woman with promises of a happy ending. Then somewhere near the end, some butch tranny comes in and tells me she/he/it is gonna rock my world.

=(


----------



## chicolom

Stereo gives me listener fatigue/headache in games.  The soundstage sounds like its been flattened with a steam roller.  3d games just don't match well with a 2d soundfield.  They were meant to be matched with a 3d soundfield. 
   
  I owned both AD700s and AD900s, and kept the AD700s.  AD900s don't have angled drivers while AD700's do.  AD700 comfort is better IMO (my ears touch the flat AD900 drivers, even after phat pad modding).  AD900s do have some advantages such as better bass, mids, and they look much better .  But I didn't find them as clear sounding, and the soundstage didn't have as much seperation and clarity as the AD700s.  They're still great, but I preferred the AD700s. 
   
  Neither of them are that fun sounding for gaming.  It doesn't make sense to pay $100 more for the AD900s and get a phone that has weaker soundstage/positioning than AD700's yet doesn't sound much more fun either.  And if your not using the AD700s for the huge soundstage/price ratio, you might as well move away from Audio Technicas all together and get a more fun sounding headphone.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah that OP was like getting a massage from an exotic woman with promises of a happy ending. Then somewhere near the end, some butch tranny comes in and tells me she/he/it is gonna rock my world.
> 
> =(


 

 Haha, I totally read this incorrectly and was under the assumption the OP was secretly PMing you with suggestions of sexual attraction, after which sending pictures turned out to be a shemale. Don't ask.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A story I wouldn't find hard to believe, Dub. I been lied to online a few times before, lol. One time being a IRL ex who pretended to be someone else for half a year just to make my life hell.

Chicolom, that's pretty much what I have heard of the AD900. SLIGHTLY better SQ overall, worse gaming performance, more than double the price. That's why I can't take them seriously.

Then again, I own the D7000 which doesn't necessarily sound $200-300 better than the D5000, FWIR. Still now that I do own it, there's no way I'd step down, lol.

Once you start hitting $500 headphones, everything else is incrimental at best, I'm gonna assume.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A story I wouldn't find hard to believe, Dub. I been lied to online a few times before, lol. One time being a IRL ex who pretended to be someone else for half a year just to make my life hell.
> 
> Chicolom, that's pretty much what I have heard of the AD900. SLIGHTLY better SQ overall, worse gaming performance, more than double the price. That's why I can't take them seriously.
> 
> ...


 

 She pretended to be someone else for half a year just to bust your balls online? How much time did she have on her hands? Thank god I'm settled when it comes to women. I've got my soulmate, and we're gonna get married when we graduate. I can't tell you how many ridiculous stories I could share involving women. None of them pretended to be someone else, but my last girlfriend (from long ago, thank god) used to call me with a blocked number just to get me to answer the phone to see who it was, most likely because I didn't answer the phone when she called 5 minutes prior. That was her only mistake, was calling from a blocked number 5 minutes after calling me 3-4 times when I wouldn't pick up. One time I had my roommate answer my phone when she called and say I was at my neighbor's apartment. She knew our only neighbors were all women, and then she cried and hinted at killing herself (just a way to get my attention, she wasn't serious.) Then she called me one day and told me she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which made me laugh. I literally lol'd on the phone with her, because I thought to myself, "out of all of the guys who say their ex was bipolar, this time it's for real." Then we had a long talk and I told her I couldn't focus on school and deal with her B.S. at the same time. She cried, ignored me for a week (best week of my life) and then texted me one day asking if I wanted to visit her and have make up sex. I was like, "apparently you didn't get the message. You can't have make up sex after I dump you over a week ago. Don't call me again please." And then she trolled my facebook for a good 15 minutes, after which I blocked her. Then I received a skype contact request claiming to be one of my buddies who made a new skype account. They were like "yo wanna cam for a minute?" And I was like, "sure dude." Cam goes on and guess who it is... So I told her to get a life and move on, and I'm not kidding, she told her sister to contact all of her redneck wannabe thug 23 year old friends so they could harass and threaten me. One of them actually waited outside my apartment for me one time and pulled up in back of my car so I couldn't back up. Little did he know I keep a bat in my back seat. So I stepped out with the bat, and he was already out of his truck. I'm not trying to brag by any means, but I'm a big guy. I'm 6'2" 200 lbs, and this guy was about 5'7" with boots on and maybe 140 lbs, with a shaved head and a japanese tattoo on his neck. He was like, "whoa man, no need for the bat." I was like, "you've got one minute to move your truck and drive away as quickly as you can. You better hope you get far too, because I'm watching where you drive, and I'm gonna try to find you. If I do, you won't have another chance to leave untouched." So I got in my car, and he literally peeled out of the front lot. I didn't follow him, and I had no intention of doing so. I just wanted him to think I was a psycho path, and most of the time it works. If you can keep a straight face and blink once every three seconds like you have some kind of a tick, while opening your eye lids very wide, you'll be able to scare anyone into thinking you could gut them and not think twice. Wow, well I got a bit sidetracked. To anyone who actually reads this entire post, I suppose I owe you an apology.


----------



## canoners

dub beatz said:


> She pretended to be someone else for half a year just to bust your balls online? How much time did she have on her hands? Thank god I'm settled when it comes to women. I've got my soulmate, and we're gonna get married when we graduate. I can't tell you how many ridiculous stories I could share involving women. None of them pretended to be someone else, but my last girlfriend (from long ago, thank god) used to call me with a blocked number just to get me to answer the phone to see who it was, most likely because I didn't answer the phone when she called 5 minutes prior. That was her only mistake, was calling from a blocked number 5 minutes after calling me 3-4 times when I wouldn't pick up. One time I had my roommate answer my phone when she called and say I was at my neighbor's apartment. She knew our only neighbors were all women, and then she cried and hinted at killing herself (just a way to get my attention, she wasn't serious.) Then she called me one day and told me she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which made me laugh. I literally lol'd on the phone with her, because I thought to myself, "out of all of the guys who say their ex was bipolar, this time it's for real." Then we had a long talk and I told her I couldn't focus on school and deal with her B.S. at the same time. She cried, ignored me for a week (best week of my life) and then texted me one day asking if I wanted to visit her and have make up sex. I was like, "apparently you didn't get the message. You can't have make up sex after I dump you over a week ago. Don't call me again please." And then she trolled my facebook for a good 15 minutes, after which I blocked her. Then I received a skype contact request claiming to be one of my buddies who made a new skype account. They were like "yo wanna cam for a minute?" And I was like, "sure dude." Cam goes on and guess who it is... So I told her to get a life and move on, and I'm not kidding, she told her sister to contact all of her redneck wannabe thug 23 year old friends so they could harass and threaten me. One of them actually waited outside my apartment for me one time and pulled up in back of my car so I couldn't back up. Little did he know I keep a bat in my back seat. So I stepped out with the bat, and he was already out of his truck. I'm not trying to brag by any means, but I'm a big guy. I'm 6'2" 200 lbs, and this guy was about 5'7" with boots on and maybe 140 lbs, with a shaved head and a japanese tattoo on his neck. He was like, "whoa man, no need for the bat." I was like, "you've got one minute to move your truck and drive away as quickly as you can. You better hope you get far too, because I'm watching where you drive, and I'm gonna try to find you. If I do, you won't have another chance to leave untouched." So I got in my car, and he literally peeled out of the front lot. I didn't follow him, and I had no intention of doing so. I just wanted him to think I was a psycho path, and most of the time it works. If you can keep a straight face and blink once every three seconds like you have some kind of a tick, while opening your eye lids very wide, you'll be able to scare anyone into thinking you could gut them and not think twice. Wow, well I got a bit sidetracked. To anyone who actually reads this entire post, I suppose I owe you an apology.



Huge wall of text is huge.
Edit: Read it, interesting and hilarious at the same time


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wall of text. Break that sucker up, Dub!

I did read it though.

Lol, my last ex DID try to kill herself. I had to call the cops and everything.

BTW, I'm 6'2" 200lbs too. XD

Yeah, I've had waaaaay too many crazy exes and flings. I'm pretty much sure that all women are crazy now.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

<head-fi meets The jerry Springer Show.


----------



## Eric_C

No apology needed for awesome story.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jerry looks like a closet audiophile. I can see him wearing vintage Stax.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> She pretended to be someone else for half a year just to bust your balls online? How much time did she have on her hands? Thank god I'm settled when it comes to women. I've got my soulmate, and we're gonna get married when we graduate. I can't tell you how many ridiculous stories I could share involving women. None of them pretended to be someone else, but my last girlfriend (from long ago, thank god) used to call me with a blocked number just to get me to answer the phone to see who it was, most likely because I didn't answer the phone when she called 5 minutes prior. That was her only mistake, was calling from a blocked number 5 minutes after calling me 3-4 times when I wouldn't pick up. One time I had my roommate answer my phone when she called and say I was at my neighbor's apartment. She knew our only neighbors were all women, and then she cried and hinted at killing herself (just a way to get my attention, she wasn't serious.) Then she called me one day and told me she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which made me laugh. I literally lol'd on the phone with her, because I thought to myself, "out of all of the guys who say their ex was bipolar, this time it's for real." Then we had a long talk and I told her I couldn't focus on school and deal with her B.S. at the same time. She cried, ignored me for a week (best week of my life) and then texted me one day asking if I wanted to visit her and have make up sex. I was like, "apparently you didn't get the message. You can't have make up sex after I dump you over a week ago. Don't call me again please." And then she trolled my facebook for a good 15 minutes, after which I blocked her. Then I received a skype contact request claiming to be one of my buddies who made a new skype account. They were like "yo wanna cam for a minute?" And I was like, "sure dude." Cam goes on and guess who it is... So I told her to get a life and move on, and I'm not kidding, she told her sister to contact all of her redneck wannabe thug 23 year old friends so they could harass and threaten me. One of them actually waited outside my apartment for me one time and pulled up in back of my car so I couldn't back up. Little did he know I keep a bat in my back seat. So I stepped out with the bat, and he was already out of his truck. I'm not trying to brag by any means, but I'm a big guy. I'm 6'2" 200 lbs, and this guy was about 5'7" with boots on and maybe 140 lbs, with a shaved head and a japanese tattoo on his neck. He was like, "whoa man, no need for the bat." I was like, "you've got one minute to move your truck and drive away as quickly as you can. You better hope you get far too, because I'm watching where you drive, and I'm gonna try to find you. If I do, you won't have another chance to leave untouched." So I got in my car, and he literally peeled out of the front lot. I didn't follow him, and I had no intention of doing so. I just wanted him to think I was a psycho path, and most of the time it works. If you can keep a straight face and blink once every three seconds like you have some kind of a tick, while opening your eye lids very wide, you'll be able to scare anyone into thinking you could gut them and not think twice. Wow, well I got a bit sidetracked. To anyone who actually reads this entire post, I suppose I owe you an apology.


 

 Now if he was using AD700's instead of those overpriced AD900's he would have heard you coming with that weapon swap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Badump tschng. XD

My last ex had a problem with me spending more time thinking about headphones than her.

I definitely had a big part in making her crazy. =(


----------



## Riku540

When we were together, I bought my ex ATH-ES7's... broke them.
   
  Super Fi 5 Pro's... broke them.
   
  Creative EP630's... lost them.
   
  I'm now seeing someone else... and I don't think I'll be buying headphones for anyone other than myself honestly.
   
  In fact... this is probably why I haven't had as many headphones as you MLE, because for almost 6 years I was buying for 2...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sincerely miss my... ES7. Lol.

I just wish they didn't hurt SO badly. Those would be the ones I'd use at work instead of the KSC75.

I dunno how in the world I have resisted the temptation of getting the MS1i for work use. They are cheap, apparently awesome, and open...

Pretty sure I'm gonna cave and get them probably in April.


----------



## dub Beatz

Haha, I totally didn't expect anyone to read my post. I rofl'd at the AD900 post, weapon swap haha. And MLE, maybe we're twins that were separated at birth only to be reunited on head-fi...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maybe we have the same papa. Never met him *emo cry*.

Gonna pm you guys with my fb. Don't wanna have it public, lol.


----------



## Riku540

So now we're Mad Dub's Lusts Beatz Riku's Envy now?
   
  Consider us "Bro'ed".


----------



## dub Beatz

Haha, word to your mother!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This bromance has now become a Triangle of love, kinship, and aural pleasures.

That sounds about right.


----------



## dub Beatz

I tossed you a request too, Riku. WONDER FORCE TRIPLETS, GO!


----------



## Riku540

So I guess if this were DBZ I would be Krillin. Because between the three of us looking at the photos... and Dub's story... I would die first.


----------



## Eric_C

I...I think I should leave this thread now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, aww.

Alright, to bring the thread back on track.

I been using my D7000 almost exclusively for PC use, but I'm about to start some single player games on my days off, so I believe I'm gonna let the PC360 rest awhile.

It really is hard to NOT use the D7000 for practically everything.


----------



## obazavil

dub... eating popcorns while reading you history was cool! I pictured you with that size, and blinking crazy eyes... lol
   
  I guess this forum should have ban words.. so every time i read D7000 it should say "don't buy them someday".
   
  Anyway... I guess I must start enjoying my dt990 for single before jumping to something else 
   
  Dead space will be at my house on wed, let's see how good positioning and immersion is with dt990


----------



## tyoung8

Quote: 





> *MY TOP CHOICES*
> 
> 
> In Order
> ...


 
   
  Mad Lust, where would you put the PC360 on the fun list?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> So I guess if this were DBZ I would be Krillin. Because between the three of us looking at the photos... and Dub's story... I would die first.


 

 ROFL! I miss watching DBZ as a kid. 
   


  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> dub... eating popcorns while reading you history was cool! I pictured you with that size, and blinking crazy eyes... lol
> 
> I guess this forum should have ban words.. so every time i read D7000 it should say "don't buy them someday".
> 
> ...


 


  Haha, crazy eyes. I suppose I'm glad so many people enjoyed my story.


----------



## canoners

dub beatz said:


> ROFL! I miss watching DBZ as a kid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tell us more


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





tyoung8 said:


> Mad Lust, where would you put the PC360 on the fun list?


 


  Definitely. I'll go ahead and edit them in... check the first post in a few. They definitely have enough bass and immersion to warrant me not needing to whip out the D7000 for single player gaming.
   
  I also had to switch to have the AD700 above the PC360 for competitive gaming. They should have been there in the first place.


----------



## tibble89

Just bought some 2nd hand AD700's, should I get good positioning without an amp, or only if I buy the astro mixamp? slightly disappointed with them at moment
   
  Thanks!


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Just bought some 2nd hand AD700's, should I get good positioning without an amp, or only if I buy the astro mixamp? slightly disappointed with them at moment
> 
> Thanks!


 


  You're running them in stereo? That's why you're disappointed. It's not just any amp that will do the job. You need a digital processor, which is what the mixamp acts as. It converts stereo signals into Dolby Headphone, creating a processed 3D environment for game audio.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Just bought some 2nd hand AD700's, should I get good positioning without an amp, or only if I buy the astro mixamp? slightly disappointed with them at moment
> 
> Thanks!


 

 Just so MLE doesn't have to reiterate the point himself: please bear in mind that all headphone recommendations made in this thread are always with Dolby Headphone in use.


----------



## Riku540

You would think people would catch that in the title but...


----------



## Eric_C

Yes, but...welcome to Head-Fi.


----------



## darkswordsman17

I wanted to point out something as well to help with the people that use CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone so that it might help to understand what might work better for you. Dolby's is aimed at simulating a surround sound setup and offering correct placement according to a properly setup one (which is why it also elevates bass levels to give a psuedo LFE). Creative's on the other hand is aimed at recreating the space that its emulating so as to give you the feel of being in that space (so in gaming its trying to give you the feedback that you'd get in the game world). I think some people go in expecting different things from tech like HRTF. Some expect head-tracking like what Beyer's focus was. Likewise with the Smyth system which is trying to achieves something else as well. Anyway, I think it helps to understand what the tech you're using is going for so that you can maybe choose one that better fits what you're wanting or so that you can maybe better appreciate what its doing. Sorry if this was already pointed out before.
  
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> You would think people would catch that in the title but...


 

 In all fairness the title doesn't say Dolby Headphone experiences only, it just says particularly with Dolby Headphone, which I think gives some the impression that's not default, so I do think you reiterating that is beneficial.
   
  I wish there was a company that would offer something similar to the Mixamp but with DTS Surround Sensation, as I seem to generally prefer DTS' implementation of similar tech over Dolby's.


  Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> You're running them in stereo? That's why you're disappointed. It's not just any amp that will do the job. You need a digital processor, which is what the mixamp acts as. It converts stereo signals into Dolby Headphone, creating a processed 3D environment for game audio.


 

 Definitely that is the biggest concern here, but I think it would be possible to be disappointed with the AD700s from a technical standpoint. Of course as far as gaming, using them in stereo definitely would expose its deficiencies more.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *darkswordsman17* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I wish there was a company that would offer something similar to the Mixamp but with DTS Surround Sensation, as I seem to generally prefer DTS' implementation of similar tech over Dolby's.


 

 There is, it's called the Beyerdynamic Headzone Game for the _*low*_ price of $1,678.95.
   
  lol...


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> There is, it's called the Beyerdynamic Headzone Game for the _*low*_ price of $1,678.95.
> 
> lol...


 


  Holy nipples


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That headzone would be ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS for gaming.
   
  It's supposed to change sound placement cues relative to where your HEAD is facing. So if you were to look away from the screen, everything would come from behind you. How is this advantageous for gaming? It's not like you're gaming on a screen that's wrapped around your seating position.
   
  It adds a level of immersion mostly from stereo signals, and would be great for stuff like concerts and stuff, but for gaming, you wouldn't be moving your head much to look away from the screen and whatnot.
   
  An expensive gimmick that has no direct use for gaming, where it's actually helpful.
   
  I wanted to point this out, because people have jokingly asked me to try it out on AVSForum. It seriously wouldn't do anything to help out with gaming. I haven't heard it, but just reading the description, you can understand what it does. Instead of moving your on screen character to change positioning cues, your head movement changes it. Who the hell is gonna play, watch a movie, or anything of the sort and look away from the screen? Music is it's best use, IMHO.


----------



## Riku540

... I'm pretty sure that's the head-tracking version.
   
  It could be just me but they don't seem to have that available anymore. If it is I think it can be switched on and off.


----------



## mbyrnes

Quote: 





darkswordsman17 said:


> I wanted to point out something as well to help with the people that use CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone so that it might help to understand what might work better for you. Dolby's is aimed at simulating a surround sound setup and offering correct placement according to a properly setup one (which is why it also elevates bass levels to give a psuedo LFE). Creative's on the other hand is aimed at recreating the space that its emulating so as to give you the feel of being in that space (so in gaming its trying to give you the feedback that you'd get in the game world). I think some people go in expecting different things from tech like HRTF. Some expect head-tracking like what Beyer's focus was. Likewise with the Smyth system which is trying to achieves something else as well. Anyway, I think it helps to understand what the tech you're using is going for so that you can maybe choose one that better fits what you're wanting or so that you can maybe better appreciate what its doing. Sorry if this was already pointed out before.
> 
> 
> In all fairness the title doesn't say Dolby Headphone experiences only, it just says particularly with Dolby Headphone, which I think gives some the impression that's not default, so I do think you reiterating that is beneficial.
> ...


 


  I totally agree with the DTS Surround Sensation.  I watched the demo on their website and I couldn't find a link to a product that actually uses it.  You would think DTS would develop a product for the purpose of selling it.  I would love to try it out just to see how it compares to DHP.  Maybe in a year or two some products will hit the market with both technologies so people can A/B them.  This would also work in our favor so Dolby and DTS have to compete with each other and they would develop better technology rapidly.  This will probably never happen but I can dream!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> ... I'm pretty sure that's the head-tracking version.
> 
> It could be just me but they don't seem to have that available anymore. If it is I think it can be switched on and off.


 


  What, I didn't realize there was a GAME version. I totally didn't see that. I thought it was just the head tracking bull.
   
  That sounds.... appealing. Great, now I'm really gonna wanna try that at some point in my life. That price is ridiculous however.
   
  And would it work to it's full potential with consoles?


----------



## tibble89

Sorry to sound that noobie 
   
  I do understand that it is currently running in stereo and what the mixamp does, it's just sometimes misleading when people say "ad700 is best headphone for gaming for under $100" it makes it sound like that is all that's needed.
   
  Apologies  and thanks for replies


----------



## BlutoSlice

This tech \ X-Tube DTS does look like DTS's answer to Dolby Headphone I found a USB dongle with the tech. Someone needs to get this for some testing.  There are also ultra PC partners that have onboard audio with the same tech.
   
  http://thecoolgadgets.com/x-tube-as301dts-dts-surround-sensation-headphone-with-led-lights/
   
  http://www.geekstuff4u.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Surround+Sensation+&x=0&y=0   aprox £60
   

  
  Quote: 





mbyrnes said:


> I totally agree with the DTS Surround Sensation.  I watched the demo on their website and I couldn't find a link to a product that actually uses it.  You would think DTS would develop a product for the purpose of selling it.  I would love to try it out just to see how it compares to DHP.  Maybe in a year or two some products will hit the market with both technologies so people can A/B them.  This would also work in our favor so Dolby and DTS have to compete with each other and they would develop better technology rapidly.  This will probably never happen but I can dream!


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> There is, it's called the Beyerdynamic Headzone Game for the _*low*_ price of $1,678.95.
> 
> lol...


 

 LOL, yes this is a joke for what it is.  I looked into this when I was buying my Beyer MMX 300's.  Who knows, maybe it would be better that a Mixamp + E9 (or other headphone amp) combo.  But for the money I'll take the Astro Mixamp + Schitt Asgard or Fiio E9 or insert amp here combo and still have money left over.  I would love to hear this thing.... maybe when we go IPO, LOL


----------



## Riku540

I'm sure it's an amazing piece of hardware especially being able to handle HD audio tracks. Another huge plus is that it's already designed to output for high impedance 600 Ohm headphones. And I know it really wouldn't knock off much of the price, but it would be nice if you could buy it without the MMX300. The price to performance ratio its just way out of proportion though, and I guess rightfully so as there doesn't seem to be any other device that can do this. In any case the Mixamp is no slouch for just over $100.
   
  Maybe one day...


----------



## dub Beatz

There's a head-tracking version too? What the hell?


----------



## Scytus

On a more serious, non-crazy $1.5k note, are there any devices that could serve as an alternative to the mixamp?

It doesn't have to have 360/PS3 support, though that's always a nice feature.

..or would mixamp be the only game in town?


----------



## Riku540

The Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS and the audio controller that comes with Tritton headsets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The best one to get for the money is the Tritton AX720. For $130, you get the decoder box which is just as good as the Mixamp, is a better looking product (stays near your consoles), and all the buttons needed are on the inline puck, as opposed to the Mixamp, where the entire thing needs to be near you.

Unless you're specifically going for the wireless Mixamp, the AX720 is the best choice PLUS a free headset. Another plus is that you can pick it up in Best Buy.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The best one to get for the money is the Tritton AX720. For $130, you get the decoder box which is just as good as the Mixamp, is a better looking product (stays near your consoles), and all the buttons needed are on the inline puck, as opposed to the Mixamp, where the entire thing needs to be near you.
> 
> Unless you're specifically going for the wireless Mixamp, the AX720 is the best choice PLUS a free headset. Another plus is that you can pick it up in Best Buy.


 
  I've got the decoder. I broke the microphone on my AX720s, and stupidly thought I was out of luck unless I ordered the part from Tritton, which I'm too lazy to do. Then I thought, oh wait a second. These came with an extra set of cables to plug headphones and a microphone into... I could just use my DT770s and zalman clip on mic... Now that I'm stuck on campus (car felt like going into gay mode) I just choose not to use my xbox at all. Haven't been on it once since last semester.
   
  edit: On second thought, I miss my AD700s.
  edit 2: No I don't.
  edit 3: Yeah, I do but not enough to use them again. That's why I got my DT770s.
  edit 4: Screw my DT770s I want some D2ks, or D5ks or even D7ks.
  edit 5: I need my job back.
  edit 6: I want the HE-4s the most. 
  edit 7: Paired with the EF5 and decoder. I wonder how that would sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The major downside of the AX720 is that it has a hiss that is pretty noticeable compared to the Mixamp and Mixamp 5.8. The hiss isn't an issue when you're playing games and are into the action, but it's definitely there. Still, not as bad as the Turtle Beach inline amp's hiss. Eww.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, and when you're on the dashboard it sounds like falling raindrops. I kind of like it o_O.


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The major downside of the AX720 is that it has a hiss that is pretty noticeable compared to the Mixamp and Mixamp 5.8. The hiss isn't an issue when you're playing games and are into the action, but it's definitely there. Still, not as bad as the Turtle Beach inline amp's hiss. Eww.


 


  So you think the AX720 is better than the Mixamp, even when considering the hiss?
   
  ..are those the only two choices? xD


----------



## Riku540

Well its not like there's a HUGE market for this. Probably more than 90% of all gamers are perfectly fine just playing from their TV's built-in speakers. Of the few that actually have good sound systems, fewer still choose headphones. And of those few that choose headphones, even fewer than that are concerned about, or are even aware that such products like the Mixamp even exist.
   
  The Mixamp does the job perfectly, and the other two are alternatives should it not be to your liking. How many varieties do you need...


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Well its not like there's a HUGE market for this. Probably more than 90% of all gamers are perfectly fine just playing from their TV's built-in speakers. Of the few that actually have good sound systems, fewer still choose headphones. And of those few that choose headphones, even fewer than that are concerned about, or are even aware that such products like the Mixamp even exist.
> 
> The Mixamp does the job perfectly, and the other two are alternatives should it not be to your liking. How many varieties do you need...


 

  
  I'm sorry if I seem to be difficult D:
   
  It's just when I'm being told the AX720 is better for the job, yet has a hissing noise the mixamp doesn't..it makes a person confused x]


----------



## Riku540

I don't think he meant necessarily best for the job, but best for the money. It can be bought locally and you get a (crappy) headset with it.
   
  Between the Mixamp, DSS, and AX720, the AX720 is probably the least popular choice. I'm not saying popularity = performance but there is _some_ merit to that statement from time to time.


----------



## tibble89

If I remember correctly the tritton amps need to plugged into the wall, which for most maybe isn't ideal. Much easier when things plug into USB, isn't that what they're there for. I'm sure it doesn't use that much power it needs to be plugged into wall.
   
  Astro mixamp seems like the best choice for convenience if you buy an optical cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: double post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the AX720 isn't the BEST. I'd say it has 100% of the performance of the Mixamp, just with HISS. Still, it's a much easier setup in the home, you can buy it locally (and return it if you don't like it), AND you get a free headset. I don't think the headset is that bad. Certainly it phails when compared to any headphone known to be good for gaming, but as an all in one solution with people who don't have anything, the AX720 headset will do them much more justice to their gaming over no headphone/headset at all. It's MUCH better than using TV speakers or stereo speakers.
   
  I have all 3 in the house (my roomie owns the AX720).
   
  Options:
   
  -Get the Wireless Mixamp 5.8 if you can afford it. 99% the same as the wired mixamp, maybe just a LITTLE brighter, but with a bass expander button which adds a very subtle amount of bass
   with zero tradeoff. AT extremely loud levels, the 5.8 has some very slight hiss, though doesn't approach the hiss of the AX720.
   
  -Get the wired Mixamp if you don't care about cable clutter, just pure SQ.
   
  -Get the AX720 for the same price as the wired Mixamp. Can be bought locally. Just take note it has an audible hiss during quiet scenes in gaming. You get a 'decent' headset with it. I'd personally use the headset as a backup. I had no problems kicking tail in CoD with it. It does it's job.
   
  I'll be honest, if I had known about the AX720 before I got my A40/Mixamp combo, I would have went for the AX720 instead. I prefer a cleaner setup than less hiss.
   
  -Get the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS. Can also be bought locally at Best Buy. It's the cheapest DH solution, BUT it doesn't allow for voice chat unless you own a Turtle Beach headset. If you want voice chat, you'll have to buy the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer. Both together cost about as much as the AX720 or Mixamp, is a LOT more clutter, and inferior SQ (the Audio Mixer has pretty bad hiss). It's also an ugly solution.
   
  Still, for those who aren't gonna use a mic...ever, the DSS is the most cost effective solution.



  
  Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> If I remember correctly the tritton amps need to plugged into the wall, which for most maybe isn't ideal. Much easier when things plug into USB, isn't that what they're there for. I'm sure it doesn't use that much power it needs to be plugged into wall.
> 
> Astro mixamp seems like the best choice for convenience if you buy an optical cable.


 


  The Mixamp 5.8's TX unit also has top be plugged into the wall. The good thing about the Tx and AX720 is that they can stay hidden, whereas the wired Mixamp HAS to be near you. This means you'll need a pretty long optical cable (as well as USB cable if you're not using the battery pack) between you and the console. I for one did not like having both an optical cable AND usb cable ran across the ground to where I'm sitting.
   
  With the AX720, all you need near you is the cable that has the AX720's small puck that has everything you need. Just ONE cable with volume control, voice/chat leveling, everything. Think of it as an inline Mixamp. I just wish it didn't have the hiss.


----------



## tyoung8

Great Stuff!  Maybe this info can go on the first page as well?


----------



## mbyrnes

Using the AX720s, I only have hiss when I have the 360 controller cable hooked up.  It is dead quiet if I am not chatting.  When I do game online the hiss isn't noticeable during the game.  The amount of hiss depends on the mic volume level so I can usually find a balance without much trouble.  I only notice hiss when I am not playing, like at the menus and such.  I may have to try another cable to see if that is the problem.  I need to pickup a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter as I already have a working cable.  I also have some other controllers and I may see if that is the problem as well (I have heard the controller mic out is terrible).  
   
  I should be getting my PC360s within a week so I can test the AX720 box out with a different headset.  I do agree with MLE on the AX720 decoder box.  It is awesome to have everything in my TV stand with only the one cable coming to my seating area, and controls in a small puck.  I would have no way to permanently install the wired mixamp near my couch so I would have to drag all of that stuff out to use headphones.  I also don't care much for rechargeable devices so I really didn't want to go with the 5.8.  In my current living situation the AX720 was the best choice for me.  It really comes down to the individual and what they want in their homes.


----------



## tibble89

Will be different for some people what's best. I have a 21" TV on my desk that I use for xbox, which is also near me so having optical + usb cable is no problem, and I personally also idea of mixamp, adjusting that is probably easier than fiddling with a puck on cable/controller 
   
  Hopefully arrives tomorrow, so maybe I can give my impressions on ad700's with wired mixamp


----------



## Riku540

Please do, as you should notice a HUGE difference.


----------



## calpis

I've said it before but it probably got lost in this thread. I've tried the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer and had to return in the same day because the hiss that come out of that thing was pretty loud. Sure, it gets drowned out with explosions and stuff but gets real annoying when you're stalking somebody around the map.


----------



## Goride

Does the Astro Mixamp reduce bass?
   
  I decided to test out the Mixamp and my HD595/HD555 yesterday.  I have both 595 and 555 and was going to try testing the difference between them as far as surround sound goes in a movie.  I hooked it up to my PS3 via optical cable, put in blu-ray Iron man, and turned on the DH.  I also put a Fii0 E5 w/ bass boost on, and I used a Y-splitter so I could connect both the HD595 and HD555 at the same time.
   
  The surround sound seemed pretty good on both.  But one thing I really noticed.  In the beginning of Ironman they test out the Jericho Missle.  When the missle launched, exploded into the mountains, and when the aftershock blew through, I could barely hear it.  Absolutely zero bass.
   
  I know these Sennheisers aren't known for their bass, but I get way more bass when I listen to music, so know they are capable of producing more.  I was just wondering if the Mixamp, being designed for gaming, actually tones down the bass for explosions like this?


----------



## Eric_C

Did you try playing that scene without the MixAmp?


----------



## MohawkUS

Take out the Fiio, I don't think that it is meant to go with full size phones, and you said you hooked up two!. I have an e5 and when I pair it up with my K 81 DJ I the sound gets very recessed and the bass goes away, the bass boost makes it even worse. To be fair, I think my e5 is faulty and I am returning it.


----------



## tsumugu

just to chime in for those that want to try a dolby headphones but don't necessarily have the hardware to do so, here's what you can use:
   
  virtual audio cable
  audiomulch
  dolby headphone vst wrapper
   
  create 2x 6 channel cables in vac's control panel
  select one of those channels via playback devices as the default (call it line 1)
  using audiomulch, set it up such that line1_in-->line2_out, then line2_in-->dolbyheadphone-->headphone/speaker_out
   
  -you can config DH to small/live/movie setting.
  -cpu consumption is small
  -audiomulch can be setup with asio4all
  -potential to use better dac/amp etc than the noted a40 etc
  --
   
  other:
   
  i have also tried other virtual setups other than dolbyheadphones, namely:
  srs hd audio lab sandbox: didn't like it 5.1-->2.1. good for music, installs like a virtual sound card. can't seem to get it working in tandem in audiomulch.
  srs circle surround vst: didn't like it
  jb_isone_pro_surround: i like it as it gives more customization than dolby headphones (can set up such that it sounds less tin can-y). uses more cpu than dh vst
  ...then there are some others like surround2stereo:didn't like
   
  haven't tried cmss-3d (is there a vst/wrapper for this anywhere?)
  i came across dts's neural vst:dts_upmix_2to6 ..but couldn't find 6to2 if such a thing exists. anways that vst took 50% cpu
   
  i didn't really test isone vs dolby in terms sound cues or directionality etc for fps. might try it on the weekend with tf2.
   
  i do like music with [vi stereo->5.1]->isone as opposed to http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/447089/5-1-headphone-experience-foobar-configuration-for-all-stereo-music-files
  i also like the srs hd audio lab sandbox for music too.
   
  would like to try if a given sound card with optical in (say, emu 0404 usb) could take an xbox stream and decode it via the above audiomulch setup.
  --
   
  thx for koss recommendation, sounds great`


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





tsumugu said:


> just to chime in for those that want to try a dolby headphones but don't necessarily have the hardware to do so, here's what you can use:
> 
> virtual audio cable
> audiomulch
> ...


 


  Ohh..I'm gonna try this x]
   
  How does this setup compare to the Triton/Mixamp?


----------



## tsumugu

don't know, i don't have them. had i an xbox, i'd go for them just for ease-of-setup.
  if the encoding is the same across various hardware devices/software(eg windvd), then the result is only as good as your hardware (dac/cables/ampetc). were this true, audio potential could be better.
   
  also that linked first post to the youtube video i think is misleading. i'd try to find a true 5.1 audio sample with which to compare. either that sound is directly being feed in stereo or upmixed -- it might be valid relative to one another, but the test itself may not be indicative of valid/true positional cues/etc in games/5.1 setups.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That link is a binaural recording, not true Dolby Headphone. Be it as it may it still gives a good idea of what Dolby Headphone (or virtual surround) can do. I said as much on that post.


----------



## Goride

I just tried without using the E5 and without using the Y-cable (so that only one headphone was plugged in at the same time).  The results didn't really change.
   
  I then watched the same scene, and more of the movie with my 5.1 setup (not headphones actual speakers).  The explosions were lacking.  I guess I just assumed that it was a powerful sounding explosion (it certainly looked like it).  But it wasn't.
   
  I put in a DVD of We Were Soldiers and listened to the mortar blasts, napalm strikes, etc.  The headphones with the mixamp performed much better.  I was also able to get a good sense of what the dolby headphone surround system was able to do.
   
  I would have thought Ironman on blu-ray would have been a good test, but it just wasn't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know I have mentioned it a few times but, I personally feel that movies are a terrible way to test Dolby Headphone. Its just not the same as games. Not to mention that rear audio cues are so rarely used or very subtle.


----------



## tibble89

Well, mixamp arrived.. played Forza 3 a bit, and just.. wow.. My only 'problem' is that I thought the mixamp would weigh more so I best be careful not to move too far or it could drop off my desk  Next: mic solution for my AD700's
   
  If anyone in the UK needs a cheap 1 metre optical cable, go to Poundland, got mine today and works fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear it's impressed you. Certainly took the AD700 to make it wow me too. =)


----------



## rabidgamer

Can you plug your own mic into the AX720 decoder box and use it as you would normally? or is that a feature only the mixamp has?
   
  I've been gaming w/ the AD700s and the DSS for a bit now and using Kinect as my mic, everyone hears me fine the only downside is the voice chat coming through the headphones can get drowned out during loud sections etc, there's an option in the Voice preferences bit on your guide that you can turn down game sound when someone talks so technically it's okay for single player games. I was also considering getting one of those cheap throat mics, as Kinect picks up a lot of background noise so there are work arounds, if you want to go for the DSS.
   
  It has a pretty decent bass boost function as well, but there's a part of me that just wants to buy the mixamp just to get 'proper' voice chat again, lol.
   
  edit: also, for people wanting to buy anything headphone/game related in the UK google Limexb, good prices and they have an amazing delivery speed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The puck separates, revealing two 3.5mm jacks. One for the headphone, and one for the mic. Any headphone/headset can be used.


----------



## rabidgamer

Ahh, that's awesome.
   
  Why did Turtle Beach have to be assholes and leave that option out? haha, would have been the perfect little gadget if it could mix voice chat without it having to be a Turtle Beach headset.


----------



## tibble89

Bought my mixamp from 'limexbox' and only took 2 days 
   
  Seem to be a problem for me with ad700+mixamp, as I simply don't seem to be able to hear footsteps. I don't really like playing with it too loud as I don't want my ears to feel like they're being abused. Will I just need to use them more and get use it or any settings to change?
   
  AD700's were bought 2nd hand on ebay £56-57 and he said he hadn't used them much, maybe did.. not sure.
   
  Thanks a lot.


----------



## Riku540

What game are you playing? If it's Black Ops... the sound from that game is horrendous and footsteps will be difficult to hear no matter what you do.


----------



## tibble89

Funny thing is I heard some footsteps in BlackOps but in MW2 I heard nothing.. strange lol


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Funny thing is I heard some footsteps in BlackOps but in MW2 I heard nothing.. strange lol


 


  I remember playing MW2 (this was on the pc with my x-fi forte. it uses cmss-3d not dh) and it was literally unfair how easily I could hear footsteps. No joke, the game got run over my cheaters though. So I picked up some walls and an aimbot so whenever a cheater would join, I would dominate him. This way, I could play hardcore with my cheats off, and sitrep pro on and literally footsteps were too loud. Not kidding, the footsteps were so audible they overpowered everything. I was on sub base one time in the underpass and I was the last seal left, it was search and destroy. All I use on search is a deagle. I was by myself in the underpass and heard people running all around me. I could hear them in the warehouse, on the roof above me, the seal spawn and even in the second warehouse near the spetsnaz spawn. I clutched the round and got so much crap from the other team for using a deagle on hardcore.


----------



## Mr.Duck

Love the write up on the first page. Such an excellent resource.
   
  I was wondering on the best way to get DH. It would be for PC, no consoles. Really needs to have digital spdif out so then it can be hooked up to a DAC. I did own a USB asus xonar. I was unimpressed, I hate the drivers and control panel, and it broke before I could really use it properly.
   
  So, what are the best options?
   
  1) PCI or PCIe ASUS Xonar
  2) ???
  3) ???


----------



## dub Beatz

PCIe can be fit into a regular PCI slot, so it's convenient. I initially thought because I had a dual videocard setup SLI'd there wasn't room for the sound card, but thankfully my mobo has three PCI 2.0 slots. I would say Asus Xonar STX. I wish I had purchased that instead of my Auzen Forte. But hey, when I was in the market for sound cards everyone agreed it was the best.


----------



## darkswordsman17

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> PCIe can be fit into a regular PCI slot, so it's convenient. I initially thought because I had a dual videocard setup SLI'd there wasn't room for the sound card, but thankfully my mobo has three PCI 2.0 slots. I would say Asus Xonar STX. I wish I had purchased that instead of my Auzen Forte. But hey, when I was in the market for sound cards everyone agreed it was the best.


 

 Er, what do you mean can be fit into a regular PCI slot? PCIe is not compatible with PCI, so don't put a card with a PCIe connector into a regular PCI slot.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





darkswordsman17 said:


> Er, what do you mean can be fit into a regular PCI slot? PCIe is not compatible with PCI, so don't put a card with a PCIe connector into a regular PCI slot.


 

 Hold on... this is what I was trying to say.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Xonar DX Pci Express - has SPDIF optical out via a combo port but this is also the Mic port.
  Xonar DG - PCI express - similar combo port I believe (cheapest option )
  Xonar Essence ST - PCI - not that future proof as its PCI - DAC optional as SQ is good
 Xonar STX Pci Express - Spdif optical or use inbuilt DAC which is decent (most expensive)
   
  if you have driver woes try the unified drivers, used them on both my DX and STX with no problems (win 7-64).
   
  Quote: 





mr.duck said:


> Love the write up on the first page. Such an excellent resource.
> 
> I was wondering on the best way to get DH. It would be for PC, no consoles. Really needs to have digital spdif out so then it can be hooked up to a DAC. I did own a USB asus xonar. I was unimpressed, I hate the drivers and control panel, and it broke before I could really use it properly.
> 
> ...


----------



## sho0sh

Excellent write up on the first page, have just managed to pick up some DT990 Pros for £120 on amazon and a clip on mic from play for £6 - just need to get a mixamp now and see how they sound!
   
  Does anyone have any experience with the mixamp 5.8 vs the wired version, specifically its ability to drive the 990's or a similar 250 ohm headset?


----------



## nakaroxx

how is gaming with the denons d5000 and d7000?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I posted what I thought of the D7000 on the first post. <_<


----------



## tibble89

Still not hearing as much on MW2 as people say they did. Even people with those crappy X11's say they can hear people coming from miles away very clearly, but I hardly hear any footsteps and if I do, it's pretty vague and hard to pin point.


----------



## Mr.Duck

Thx for replies. Had no idea about the unified driver project.
   
  Seems to be only ASUS that lets you use DH then? I would probably go for the cheapest PCIe Xonar in that case with the plan to route spdif out to an external DAC later on.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Still not hearing as much on MW2 as people say they did. Even people with those crappy X11's say they can hear people coming from miles away very clearly, but I hardly hear any footsteps and if I do, it's pretty vague and hard to pin point.


 
   
  It also depends what you play. You're probably not going to hear footsteps well or even at all in say, Ground War or Free For All but Search and Destroy is going to be different.


----------



## tibble89

Yeah, played S&D and was better, but on xbox it's full off kids trying to do weird kills with snipers


----------



## mbyrnes

It also depends on the players.  If everyone is running Ninja Pro you won't hear a thing.  In my experience most don't and it is easy to hear footsteps.  If you play barebones you may have more success because there are no killstreaks messing with the sound at all.  If a chopper is up it can be almost impossible to hear anyone coming.


----------



## LukaTCE

I testing HD 598 with x-fi titanium for 15 days and i think headphones and sound card aren't worth so much money.
  Or it could be broken or fake headphones ? any details i need to be cerful if they are fakes.
  In stereo music (online radio mp3 codec and 128 bit) i hear oftenly left side speaker loader then right one  and sometimes is mixed in 3 seconds come mixed from left to right and again so i get strange fealing from which side cound come from.
  Tested also with onboard sound card Realtek ALC 883 and on old pc some old creative idk which one but i think in lower class.
  And i can hear plastic when moving my head (also plastic that rotate a bit and (where u can resize it) it looks weak and cheap).
  And my ears starting to hurt after 10 min. of usage  but probably coz of my small and tiny head. I don't know becouse i didn't compared to any other headphone/headset in that class except RS 170 but they have even smaller earpads
  Also what are best settings to use with x-fi titanium ?  i have gaming mode>eax on 0db>cmss-3d auto>crystalizer off. (maybe i should turn dolby digital live  on ? but i see is SPDIF only  that is optical  right ? )
  Is there any way to connect this stereo headphones to digital output ?  now i have connected to stereo (green colour)


----------



## tibble89

If they're new then maybe you need to use them more. First time I used AD700's on MW2 I wasn't impressed but some games I do hear more, and using my TV's speakers now feels so bad 
   
  Is there any difference with optical cables, or is it like hdmi, all basically same quality? Thanks


----------



## kingice10

Did anyone here tried Denon AH1100 for gaming?
   
  Also I am having problems with my home setup due to the LCD TV Hiss from the TV's headphone out. Are there any solution for this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you're absolutely deaf or everyone is using Ninja Pro or cheating (which is common now, even on consoles), you should be able to hear footsteps in MW2 with even a $5 piece of crap headphone.
   
  The AD700, HD598 on MW2 should be pure god mode otherwise.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Is there any difference with optical cables, or is it like hdmi, all basically same quality? Thanks


 


  AFAIK, yes you should approach optical cables the same way you approach HDMI--it basically either works and is good, or it doesn't work at all. There are no "degrees of how good an optical cable" can be.


----------



## tibble89

Actually I haven't used headphones for years, I wasted too much money on cheap ones which just broke, so I'm a little wary of cranking up the volume to levels which are too harsh on my ears. Will maybe just take time for me to get use to them.
   
  Barely listen to music at all, so my ears should be in perfect condition ;D


----------



## dub Beatz

I think I've come to the conclusion that I thoroughly enjoy DH more than CMSS-3D.


----------



## bmbownz

Hi guys, I think I've come to the right place (without creating my own thread)
   
  I'm trying to find a good headset to go with my new MixAmp 5.8 Wireless that I'll be using with Xbox 360. I bought both a Razer Caricharas and a Sennheiser HD555 to test from Amazon, but it seems (from reading throught these forums) that I can do even better for my money. I'd like to spend under $150 on the headphones (i have a ZalMan clip on mic) and I'd really prefer to have a closed set of cans than open (so I can use them as I please in public/LANing). Any advice is appreciated, I'm upgrading from Turtle Beach x31s so this is very exciting


----------



## sho0sh

Quote: 





bmbownz said:


> Hi guys, I think I've come to the right place (without creating my own thread)
> 
> I'm trying to find a good headset to go with my new MixAmp 5.8 Wireless that I'll be using with Xbox 360. I bought both a Razer Caricharas and a Sennheiser HD555 to test from Amazon, but it seems (from reading throught these forums) that I can do even better for my money. I'd like to spend under $150 on the headphones (i have a ZalMan clip on mic) and I'd really prefer to have a closed set of cans than open (so I can use them as I please in public/LANing). Any advice is appreciated, I'm upgrading from Turtle Beach x31s so this is very exciting


 
   
  For your budget - try these   http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A700-Audio-Technica-Headphones/dp/B000E9VKUQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1298883950&sr=8-4
  ATH A700, also see the first page to see if anything from the main review falls within it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bmbownz said:


> Hi guys, I think I've come to the right place (without creating my own thread)
> 
> I'm trying to find a good headset to go with my new MixAmp 5.8 Wireless that I'll be using with Xbox 360. I bought both a Razer Caricharas and a Sennheiser HD555 to test from Amazon, but it seems (from reading throught these forums) that I can do even better for my money. I'd like to spend under $150 on the headphones (i have a ZalMan clip on mic) and I'd really prefer to have a closed set of cans than open (so I can use them as I please in public/LANing). Any advice is appreciated, I'm upgrading from Turtle Beach x31s so this is very exciting




I didn't even see this...

You...like the Zalman? I hated it so much I tossed it in the garbage in disgust, lol.


Under $150? Hmm... to be honest most of my recommendations are open cans, but I do find the Creative Aurvana Live/Denon D1001 to perform quite well for gaming. However, their bass is prominent and so it can be a little distracting when trying to pinpoint the subtle sounds. They are pretty well south of your price range though.

I'd look into the AKG K271 MKII, which I hear are very neutral and have a large soundstage for a closed headphone. They are just slightly more than $150.

Open cans are usually a lot better, and easier to find in the price range to work well for gaming. Your Sennheiser HD555 (modded with the sticky foam removed) will probably still trump any closed headphone until you start hitting $250 or so.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Under $150? Hmm... to be honest most of my recommendations are open cans, but I do find the Creative Aurvana Live/Denon D1001 to perform quite well for gaming. However, their bass is prominent and so it can be a little distracting when trying to pinpoint the subtle sounds. They are pretty well south of your price range though.


 
  Hi there mad lust envy 
  I sold my m50 since i found a pair of cal´s for half the price( and i found the m50 to analitic )
  Now im torn between the cals and the hd 555(foam mod) for immersive gaming only.
  You said they were quite immersive , are the better  than the hd 555 for that porpouse?=
  Greets nvb


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





newvegasbaby said:


> Hi there mad lust envy
> I sold my m50 since i found a pair of cal´s for half the price( and i found the m50 to analitic )
> Now im torn between the cals and the hd 555(foam mod) for immersive gaming only.
> You said they were quite immersive , are the better  than the hd 555 for that porpouse?=
> Greets nvb


 

 I wouldn't consider the HD555's very immersive o__O. They're open, and not many open cans are considered immersive. Technically, headphones that have more emphasis on the lower end of the audio spectrum are seen as immersive, like some closed denons or beyers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would say yes, the CAL is definitely better in immersion. It has a home theater-esque sound. I doubt they will disappoint. Definitely better than the M50 for gaming.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Great
  I found a pair of cals for  60 euros ( 90 dollars or so)
  Is that a good deal?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's in their normal price range, I believe. I got mine for $65 new though off Newegg I believe. That's rare though.

Personally, I'd wait until the D2000 goes back down to the $200 range and get those. Sure to spank any other close headphone in the price range.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Personally, I'd wait until the D2000 goes back down to the $200 range and get those. Sure to spank any other close headphone in the price range.


 
  I want to use them portably as well (how´s their isolation btw? is it enough to use on a car travel)
  The d2000 are huge and i think the cal´s will fit the bill , that way i can
  afford a better source


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah, portability is NOT a D2000 strong point, lol.

Oh, the CAL isn't exactly the best at isolation either. They let a lot of outside sound in, but don't leak much.

I think the most immersive and isolating would be the DT770 Pro 80. Those might go for around $185 and are more portable than the D2000, but aren't exactly small either. They have a LOT of bass, and if will want an amp outside of gaming use. They sound terrible without one. I bet the Fiio E11 will make them worthwhile... for less than $60.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

double post


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> Oh, the CAL isn't exactly the best at isolation either. They let a lot of outside sound in, but don't leak much.


 
  That sucks:/
  They seem perfect for me but the isolation doens´t add up
  How bad do they leak in ? Can they isolate enough for use in a car travel?
   
  Quote: 





> I think the most immersive and isolating would be the DT770 Pro 80. Those might go for around $185 and are more portable than the D2000, but aren't exactly small either. They have a LOT of bass, and if will want an amp outside of gaming use. They sound terrible without one. I bet the Fiio E11 will make them worthwhile... for less than $60.


 
  They are still to expensive for me , but certainly a possible update from the cals


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't say as I didn't use them away from home or work. They aren't too bad, but I think it will bother you if car speakers are blaring...


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> I can't say as I didn't use them away from home or work. They aren't too bad, but I think it will bother you if car speakers are blaring...


 
      Ok , im going to orderm the form play.com
  I will see if i can get some IEM´s later on if i find they dont isolated well enough
 Just one more question if you don´t mind
  Are they too analitical?
  I heard somewhere they were fun and forgiving headphones is this true?
  I love fun and laid back headphones


----------



## obazavil

I think CALs have "normal" leakage.
   
  If you use them at home/work almost noone will listed to what you listen, unless they are very close to you. Man... my DT990 are open and don't leak that much.
   
  If you are on a bus, well, unless you use some noise-cancelling stuff, you will do a sound war (your headphones vs outside noise).
   
  I wouldn't worry about leakage with CALs IMHO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





newvegasbaby said:


> Ok , im going to orderm the form play.com
> I will see if i can get some IEM´s later on if i find they dont isolated well enough
> Just one more question if you don´t mind
> Are they too analitical?
> ...


 

 Fun and laid back? You'll love the CALs.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Quote: 





> I think CALs have "normal" leakage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  By leakage you are also talking about them leaking in sound too  right?
  I m not and heavy commuter i take 2 10 minute bus drives
  I mostly will use them at bus stops , while walking to class , on school halls.


----------



## tibble89

Might get some CAL's so let us know how they are. I do like AD700's, but how the fit is just awful for me..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL won't replace the AD700 in terms of clarity and detail whoring, but they inject fun to the sound for cheap.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





newvegasbaby said:


> By leakage you are also talking about them leaking in sound too  right?
> I m not and heavy commuter i take 2 10 minute bus drives
> I mostly will use them at bus stops , while walking to class , on school halls.


 


  They will be absolutely perfect for you.


----------



## tibble89

Who were the AD700's modelled on, because their head is bigger than 75% of people surely.. the metal at top is just too long but doesn't seem like it would be easier to cut it to make it shorter.
   
  I don't want something "fun" or whatever, I really only care about hearing footsteps. Having my brain rattled isn't something appealing for me


----------



## mcnoiserdc

60 euro for CAL! is a good price for Eurozone


----------



## tibble89

Any headset I should consider which would rival AD700's positioning, sibera v2 maybe?


----------



## NewVegasBaby

> Any headset I should consider which would rival AD700's positioning, sibera v2 maybe?



Usually gaming headsets from brands like siberia and plantronics don´t touch professional headphones for gaming
Ive heard a pair of siberias and they are horrible , stay clear from them 
Maybe The senheiser pc 360 that have been mentioned here , altough i have no experience with them
i´ve seen glowing reviews everywhere


----------



## abhinit90

Just finally read this thread completely, and wow, kudos to you, nice thread.
   
  I couldn't help but giggle at the Tritton AxPro as some of my friends imported them over and it costed them over 260$plus one or two of them headphones broke so they had to replace it, extra shipping to and fro :|
   
  and all for nothing too :|
   
  I'm laughing but i myself have imported my pair of head-phones and hopefully all of it works fine and i never need to replace it :|


----------



## BChizzle

MLE , what's the best OVERALL headphones for gaming? I play mostly FPS, but other genres as well. My mixamp just arrived and i need a good pairing for it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Overall, JUST for gaming?
   
  Look at the first post. At the end of the post, I rated which I'd prefer...
   
  If you want a well balanced beast that can do it all, but isn't the BEST at everything, I'd say pick up the PC360 (if you need a mic). If you don't, the HD598. I say the PC360 because there's nothing missing. The HD598 is just slightly weaker in bass, so it's not as immersive when playing single player games. I have no problem using the PC360 for all sorts of gaming.
   
  the K70x is beter than the HD598, but it needs an amp after the Mixamp. The HD598 doesn't. I'd honestly not use the K70x because of hassle to get it working to it's optimum.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Overall, JUST for gaming?
   
  Look at the first post. At the end of the post, I rated which I'd prefer...
   
  If you want a well balanced beast that can do it all, but isn't the BEST at everything, I'd say pick up the PC360 (if you need a mic). If you don't, the HD598. I say the PC360 because there's nothing missing. The HD598 is just slightly weaker in bass, so it's not as immersive when playing single player games. I have no problem using the PC360 for all sorts of gaming.
   
  The K70x is better than the HD598, but it needs an amp after the Mixamp. The HD598 doesn't (though it DOES need an amp for music, IMHO). I'd honestly not use the K70x because of hassle to get it working to it's optimum, and it's bass light. If you don't mind paying for the K70x as well as something like an E9 to help drive them WITH the Mixamp, they will do no wrong for hardcore gaming.
   
  If you want my recommendations for you, I'd personally go with the PC360 (which I did). Simple, performs well with all forms of gaming, and lacks nothing.


----------



## matryx

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> The puck separates, revealing two 3.5mm jacks. One for the headphone, and one for the mic. Any headphone/headset can be used.


 

 Are you serious? So I can just get the AX 720 decoder box as my mixamp and plug any headphones and mic into it? How does the AX 720 decoder box compare to the Astro Mixamp?
  I might just get the AX 720 tonight from Best Buy since it's available here and later down the road upgrade to better headphones if the AX 720 decoder box is any good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. Its exactly like the Mixamp with a little hiss, but the hiss isn't an issue when you're actually playing. I'd have bought the AX720 over the wired mixamp if I knew about it before I purchased the Mixamp. Its more practical and easier to use too.

Go for it! You even get a free headset, lol.


----------



## tibble89

Think I may have to check my AD700's are real, to be honest. Just tried some old earphones I have (JVC Gumy), and I heard more with them, and they cost be about £5 3+ years ago :/


----------



## tdockweiler

Tried the HD-650 today for gaming. Definitely not as good as the HD-598 for gaming. I can say that it might be better for movies at least. As long as you're watching an action movie with lots of car chases and explosions! Luckily my HD-650 is not the dark and veiled version. It's actually kind of bright. First difference is that the soundstage on the HD-598 to me feels much larger. The mids and all those tiny details are more forward on the HD-598. Vocals in New Vegas seem a tad more "shouty" on the HD-598 compared to the HD-650. Not really, but very slightly. I shouldn't even call them that.
   
  I felt like that for gaming the HD-650 has too much bass. For music, I didn't feel this way at all EVER. The soundstage of the HD-650 even feels much smaller than my ATH-AD2000 for sure.
   
  I really like the HD-650 for music, but not 100% sure i'll keep it. It does a few things better than my ATH-AD2000 and it's far more comfortable. Kind of reminds me of my DJ100's sound signature. I think it's safe to say I like the NEW HD-650 more than my HD-600 I bought in 2010. HD-650 definitely has the better vocals to me and more detail. Clarity seems to be a lot higher too.
   
  Really not looking forward to comparing my ATH-AD2000 to the HD-650 for music. So annoying and ruins the fun of listening to headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why is it annoying?
   
  I've heard the HD650 didn't have much of an open soundstage compared to other open ear headphones and didn't perform that great for gaming. Glad to hear the new HD650 is on the brighter side. If they were like the HD598 with more bass, that would be so awesome, IMHO.


----------



## tdockweiler

It seems like whenever I do A/B comparisons between my headphones I tend to over-analyze them and it just turns listening to music into work. I guess the problem is that I buy too many headphones and don't want to keep a ton of them around. The last time I compared a bunch of headphones it took me several hours. I just want to listen to them for fun and not analyze them.
   
  HD-650 is kind of fun for gaming, but it takes forever to get used to the bass. It does make some single player games more exciting, but no way I'd ever use the HD-650 for competitive gaming. I'd definitely take the HD-650 over the D2000 for games though. I do like the D2000 though for music, but only when amped.
   
  People keep saying the ATH-AD2000 has a similar soundstage to the HD-650, but it seems so much more huge to me on the AD2000. Perhaps it's due to the pad mod, who knows. I was kind of hoping the HD-650 was better than my ATH-AD2000, but it definitely isn't the case since they're so different. Both are keepers, which stinks for my wallet.
   
  D7000 has always interested me and you can often find them for a good price online with a little luck. I wonder if D7000 has more bass than the HD-650. Based on charts I believe they were similar. HD-650 doesn't quite feel bass heavy. Almost.
   
  AD2000 feels a bit more engaging for most music than the HD-650, but might be slightly more fatiguing, although it really isn't. HD-650 has been on my head for 5 hours now without any complaints. It's just too bad the ATH-AD2000 can't be as comfortable as the HD-650. I really hope they do an HD-650 upgrade to improve the soundstage. Maybe give it slightly more forward mids, but that probably won't happen. BTW somehow the HD-650 is still quite fun to listen to, but at the same time makes me want to fall asleep. Never had a headphone do that.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why is it annoying?
> 
> I've heard the HD650 didn't have much of an open soundstage compared to other open ear headphones and didn't perform that great for gaming. Glad to hear the new HD650 is on the brighter side. If they were like the HD598 with more bass, that would be so awesome, IMHO.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

lol, may be you just like other kind of sound
  
  Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Think I may have to check my AD700's are real, to be honest. Just tried some old earphones I have (JVC Gumy), and I heard more with them, and they cost be about £5 3+ years ago :/


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> It seems like whenever I do A/B comparisons between my headphones I tend to over-analyze them and it just turns listening to music into work. I guess the problem is that I buy too many headphones and don't want to keep a ton of them around. The last time I compared a bunch of headphones it took me several hours. I just want to listen to them for fun and not analyze them.
> 
> HD-650 is kind of fun for gaming, but it takes forever to get used to the bass. It does make some single player games more exciting, but no way I'd ever use the HD-650 for competitive gaming. I'd definitely take the HD-650 over the D2000 for games though. I do like the D2000 though for music, but only when amped.
> 
> ...


 

 If you haven't already, I'd suggest you try an aftermarket cable for the HD650. My upocc copper was made by a Head-Fi DIYer for a fraction of the cost of boutique cables and the change is more than apparent on my setup. Most noticeable is the widening of the soundstage and greater definition and body of the bass. The added warmth actually plays to the HD650's strengths despite the common myth that only added brightness will benefit these cans. It may not be as huge a change as what some of the hyperbole would have you believe, but that slight improvement may present the exact sound you're after.
   
  For gaming I use my Astro MixAmp (double amped through my Audio-GD Fun) with the HD650. I'm currently playing Deadspace 2 and I must say it's quite an engrossing experience. Very good for single player games. For competitive multiplayer I'd want something with more emphasized treble and a slightly bigger soundstage.


----------



## mbyrnes

I have a thread over at avsforum but maybe someone can help out over here.  I recently bought the PC360s and have them plugged into the puck of the AX720 decoder box.  I can hear everything fine but I cannot get the microphone to pick up my voice.  I have both 3.5s from the PC360 going into the puck of the 720s. The mic isn't recording anything. I have been recording voice messages and trying different things. 720 headset works fine. An xbox mic works fine (with an adapter to fit into the 720 puck). PC360 headset records nothing. I tried recording earlier with my PC and it did record my voice.  
   
   

 I am hoping someone can chime in with their PC360 mic working with the AX720 mix amp box. I would hate to send these things back and there isn't anything wrong with them. I just want to rule out everything I can before I move forward with what to do next. If I need to pick up an astro mixamp I will, but I would rather not spend the money if the box isn't the problem. I don't have much experience with this kind of stuff so I am clueless as to what could be the problem. I appreciate any help that can be given.
   
  (later):  Here is a strange update. I took the PC360, AX720, and an OG Xbox Mic and recorded voice on my PC. All three are pretty much the exact same level recorded. Now I have no idea what is going on as I expected the other two mics, that work completely fine over live, to put out a different level. This couldn't be more frustrating. Why would all three seem to be the same on a PC, and then the PC360s being the only ones not working over the Tritton mix amp on Xbox Live?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This might be an incredibly stupid question, but do you have the cable that is supposed to go from the AX720 to the 360 controller connected? I ask because I have forgotten it a couple of times.


----------



## mbyrnes

Yeah it is connected.  I have switched from the 360s to the 720s (pulling the two 3.5s and installing the puck end) instantly and still nothing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very odd. I'll check when I get home in the morning, to make sure the PC360 works with the AX720.


----------



## mbyrnes

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very odd. I'll check when I get home in the morning, to make sure the PC360 works with the AX720.


 


  Thanks I really appreciate it.  You are one of the few people I know of that can test out a known working PC360 with the AX720 box.  I can't wrap my head around it at all.  I can usually fix this type of stuff somehow.  I tried the OG Xbox headset mic w/adapter into the mic input on the puck while still using the PC360 HS for the headphone out on the puck.  I did the same with the AX720 headset, but still listened to the playback through the PC360s.  They both worked fine.  Is it possible the the 360 mic is too close to my mouth?    
   
  If for some reason you can't get the PC360 mic to work I was thinking something like the Fiio E5 amp might help.  Basically amping the mic plug from the PC360s INTO the puck.  I know you have some amps that you could try if you get the same result as me.  I don't know if I would go that route (may sell and buy an astro mixamp), but at least we would be able to help other people out that have taken the route to headset gaming that I did.  Would also be nice to update the first page of your two threads that the AX720 isn't the way to go if upgrading is the plan.  I would be curious to see if the MMX300s have the same issue if your PC360s have the same problem as mine.  
   
  Either way this is so strange.  I plan on trying to do more scientific tests tomorrow to see if I can measure the recorded levels of each microphone setup that I have.  My wife has a Mac and that may have better software to record with each mic.  I think I will use an ipod's ear bud held to the mic with the same tone playing at the same level.  Then use an spl meter to measure the recorded levels played back.  I really want to rule out the PC360s if I can.  It is one thing to think all three recorded the same but I could be way off.  May be only recording at half the level.


----------



## dub Beatz

That is strange. I would assume there is a possible solution. A lot of times it's just stupid BS, haha. Kind of like drivers for sound cards on PCs. Good luck, man.


----------



## bmbownz

Guys, I just have a question about mic mods (I'm attaching it to either the AD700s or the HD555s, whichever I decide to keep). Since the classic Lactec mic is discontinued, is there another mic that you guys break appart to use to velcro to the side of your headphones? I ordered one of these : http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001S2RCXW/ref=ox_ya_os_product but I'm wondering what other quality mics there are to attach to headphones. I got the Zalman clip on mic but it just did not pic up my voice clearly.


----------



## celcius

What do you think about the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS?
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
  I just want to connect my ad700's to my ps3 (hiss-free) and I'm thinking about possibly giving this a try. Anyone tried it?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





celcius said:


> What do you think about the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS?
> http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> I just want to connect my ad700's to my ps3 (hiss-free) and I'm thinking about possibly giving this a try. Anyone tried it?


 


  I think these guys talked about it having a hiss


----------



## chicolom

I have a DSS and a 5.8 mixamp, and I previously owned a wired mixamp.
   
  The wired mixamp has the least hiss. The 5.8 and DSS have nearly the same hiss level, with the 5.8 being a hair less hissy.


----------



## celcius

Ugh, looks like I'll pass then.
  thanks


----------



## chicolom

No problem.
   
  I wouldn't really consider it a deal breaker though.  Like I said the DSS is comparable to the mixamp 5.8.  Its only noticeable when the game gets VERY quiet, which is rare and even then you have to concentrate to hear it.
   
  I would still recommend getting a dolby headphone amp whether it be the DSS or something else to use with your AD700s. If your not using a mic, the DSS is probably fine and it has bass boost which will benefit your audio technicas.  If you really want a _silent_ DH amp, your limited to the wired mixamp though.
   
  Its just not right to own AD700s and not use dolby headphone


----------



## dub Beatz

Honestly though dude, the hiss isn't noticeable when you're in game. It's not that annoying. And think about it, there's almost always a faint hiss when an amp is used. 
   
  http://biebler.ytmnd.com/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hiss on the 5.8 only if you put it past volumes much louder than what I even consider loud, unless the headphone used is hard to drive and is running straight off the Mixamp. With my D7000 and PC360, the get really loud at a point where the hiss is so low, you won't hear it at all when gaming. 

The hiss is more noticeable on the AX720, but they aren't even an issue unless its a real quiet part of the game.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mbyrnes said:


> I have a thread over at avsforum but maybe someone can help out over here.  I recently bought the PC360s and have them plugged into the puck of the AX720 decoder box.  I can hear everything fine but I cannot get the microphone to pick up my voice.  I have both 3.5s from the PC360 going into the puck of the 720s. The mic isn't recording anything. I have been recording voice messages and trying different things. 720 headset works fine. An xbox mic works fine (with an adapter to fit into the 720 puck). PC360 headset records nothing. I tried recording earlier with my PC and it did record my voice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The way I have my setup is that I have my mic directly connected to the xbox controller. Btw, I'm using the DH out of my H&K Receiver for gaming. The only way for me to get the mic to pick up my voice is with either a mic with a mono plug or a mic with a stereo plug with a mono adapter connected to it. Again, this is for my setup in particular since I don't have a mixamp, dss, or tritton decoder box. You may have to stick a stereo to mono adapter between your mic and puck.


----------



## boomer12

Hello,
   
  I'm currently using AD700s+Mixamp for gaming and while the positioning and clarity are awesome for competition, they're not quite as "fun" as I'd like for single player stuff. Reading the original post in this topic has me very interested in DT990s for a mix of competitive multiplayer and immersive single player gaming.  How well do the DT990s work with a Mixamp alone (DH 5.1 enabled)?  Would ohm matter in this case?  If so, which ohm would be optimal? 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Eric_C

For more info on amping beyer 770/880/990, look up Zombie_X's thread.


----------



## kingice10

Hi guys,
   
  I bought a EarForce DSS and it's kinda wierd that the bass is too loud even if I don't adjust the Bass knob, well maybe because I'm using Denon DH1100, which is emphasizes more on bass, I have a Senn HD558 too, but I don't use it at night since it's a open headphone and my girlfriend wil get mad at the noise from my games.
   
  Hiss is not that noticeable on my DSS-Denon 1100, compared to my lcd tv's headphone out which is too much hiss for me, which is also my problem cause I am using my LCD TV's headphone out when watching movies and is very annoying. But for the DSS-Denon 1100, is there a way to tame the Bass here instead to boost it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're out of luck. The D1100 is just too bass heavy.


----------



## boomer12

Just to make sure - Mad Lust Envy, would you say the DT990s are the most balanced between competitive value and fun? I'm willing to give up the AD700's ability to locate a pin drop from 50 meters away on CoD4's Downpour for more fun factor. I'm probably going to use an E9 with my Mixamp 5.8 btw.
   
  Edit - Just thought of a problem:  How would I voice chat with an amp?  I assume you would go 3.5mm-to-3.5mm from the Rx's headphone jack to the amp's line in, but then what?  Plugging the Astro Y-adapter into the E9 wouldn't allow for voice chat, would it?


----------



## tdockweiler

Got the AD700 a few days ago and I like it. Much more than I did before. It took a LOT of trouble to get a good fit. Stupid me actually attempted to use them during weight training today. Total fail. How stupid was that?! Soundstage is massive. Biggest soundstage I've heard. The soundstage of the ATH-AD2000 doesn't even compare. I still would rather use the AD2000 for gaming anyday. It has more clarity and more detail. More forward mids for all those foosteps and things you need to hear. AD700 feels massive compared to the AD2000 and I don't know why.
   
  Since I have a small head I had to bend the headband of the AD700 a tad and then use a rubberband on the wings. The only negative is that there is quite a dip in the mids and it's a bit annoying. For some people it will be hard to notice unless you compare them to a neutral headphone. It's mostly noticeable in movies and games with dialogue. The sound is pretty clear and I haven't decided if it's more clear than the HD-598, but probably.
   
  I was playing Batman: Arkham Asylum today for the first time and kept switching between the HD-598 and AD700. I loved the AD700 for it's huge soundstage, fairly clear sound and all that detail, but when I use the AD700 I still miss the forward mids on the HD-598 that makes games so much more fun to play. Too bad my HD-650 is bad for games (too much bass) and it's soundstage is smaller than each of them.
   
  I guess I need to invest in the AD900 later. I just don't want to have my ears touch the drivers. Luckily that doesn't happen with me and the AD700.
   
  Right now I don't see why the AD700 is so bad for music. I thought it was in the past, but now not so much. I guess for bass heavy music it's not a good idea. For most of my music it's actually quite good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

boomer12 said:


> Just to make sure - Mad Lust Envy, would you say the DT990s are the most balanced between competitive value and fun? I'm willing to give up the AD700's ability to locate a pin drop from 50 meters away on CoD4's Downpour for more fun factor. I'm probably going to use an E9 with my Mixamp 5.8 btw.
> 
> Edit - Just thought of a problem:  How would I voice chat with an amp?  I assume you would go 3.5mm-to-3.5mm from the Rx's headphone jack to the amp's line in, but then what?  Plugging the Astro Y-adapter into the E9 wouldn't allow for voice chat, would it?




I would say the DT990 would be my choice if I didn't mind using the Mixamp as a pre-amp to another amp.

As for setting it up:

Rx unit headphone out: Y cable: 3.5mm male/male to E9 line in.
Mic goes into the mic end of the Y cable
Headphones go to the E9.
360 gamers: controller cable from controller output on Mixamp to mic input on the 360 controller.


----------



## boomer12

Ah,  I wouldn't have thought of that.  One last thing - I'm guessing 600ohm for the DT990s since they'll be powered by an E9?  The whole amping thing still a bit confusing.
   
  Thanks for your help.


----------



## tsumugu

tried tf2 and found that (using koss ksc75): 2speaker setup in tf2 upmixed to 5.1 (via vi/dpl ii) then downmixed via dolby headphones was better for pinpointing than selecting 5.1 in tf2 (then downmixed to dh). haven't tried the 4/7.1channel-->DH though. i suspect that it wouldn't be as good as 2 speaker upmixed as teh dh vst wrapper can only input at most 5.1. also tried left4dead 5.1-->dh and wasn't as impressed. oblivion (nehrim mod) worked well in 5.1-->dh. dunno if the source engine tries to normalize the benefits of > 2 channel setups or that it's just quite possibly my setup. here's hoping da2 will sound good.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah, the source engine can be a bit screwy when it comes to configuring digital surround.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I dunno but I had the best surround experience with Left 4 Dead especially. The positional sound was extremely accurate and it was easy to kill zombies hiding behind trees or another side of the wall, too bad it got too repetitive for me. Was funny walking up a corridor, hearing boomer camping in a room further ahead just waiting for the players to pass, I just shoot it through the wall before going past the room.  I don't use dolby headphone though (and neither CMSS3D).
   
  CoD Black Ops is one game I've had probs getting clear surround sound with though.


----------



## Eric_C

You can shoot through walls in L4D? Does this apply to 1 or 2?


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Not sure but I only played the first. Building walls could certainly be shot through at least, killed many zombies like that based on the direction the grumping noises came from. ^^ It's based on thickness of the wall it seems and some penetrate thicker walls like hunting rifle and assaut rifle. Here's one page with some statistics http://www.straferight.com/forums/action-adventure/180063-l4d-weapons-infected-damage-stats.html (I do think it can go through more than one wall myself and probably the total thickness of the walls that determines it or something is my guess)
   
  Having great positional sound is almost like a cheat for this game, sooooooo useful and makes it much more difficult for zombie team.


----------



## palanoid

L4D's sound engine is very well made indeed,you need not a very good setup to accurately discern a certain sound cue 
  for black ops you will need to do a console command to get the sounds right


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





palanoid said:


> for black ops you will need to do a console command to get the sounds right


 

 What console command? Was trying to play through single player campaign but the bad sound compared to all other games I've played recently was too much for me to handle. Sound positioning isn't far the only problem but the fact that the weapons sound like toyguns at best and even with a bass boost on my XB500 doesn't change that cuz they are so high pitched.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> Edit - Just thought of a problem:  How would I voice chat with an amp?  I assume you would go 3.5mm-to-3.5mm from the Rx's headphone jack to the amp's line in, but then what?  Plugging the Astro Y-adapter into the E9 wouldn't allow for voice chat, would it?


 


  There are some diagrams on page 26 of this thread on how to hook up through an amp...
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/534479/mad-lust-envy-aka-shin-cz-s-guide-to-headphone-gaming-particularly-with-dolby-headphone/375


----------



## Aspvr

Hello everyone
   
  I'm planning to buy a pair of DT990 600OHM + FIIO E9 + Mix Amp

 The thing is i want to have the E9 plugged into my ps3 and my pc at the same time,
   
  ( I'm using the digital out of the Xonar to connect my speakers so connecting the PC to the Mix-Amp is not possible )
   
  I have an Asus Xonar Essence STX, is there anyway to accomplish this? 

 Disconnecting and connecting the headphones would be to much hassle


----------



## chowbabyloving

Quote: 





aspvr said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> I'm planning to buy a pair of DT990 600OHM + FIIO E9 + Mix Amp
> 
> ...


 
  You could get a music fairy adapter to plug your mixamp into your ps3 and then connect the usb cable to your pc for the voice chat part.  For the game sound you could connect the coaxial output on your soundcard to the mixamp and then the optical from the ps3 to the mixamp.  I think that should work.


----------



## Aspvr

I Don't really care about voice,
   
  The problem is my coax port is used for my 5.1 speakers,
   
  I need a way to connect two sources to the Fiio E9 Amp (Pc and Ps3) without using the digital out of the Xonar

 Thx for your help


----------



## palanoid

@RPGWiZaRD - ur playing the PC version yes? for singleplayer i guess u can turn sound occlusion off in options,for multiplayer u can do seta snd_losOcclusion "1" . as for rifles sounding like toyguns im afraid u cant do anything about it there,sorry.


----------



## chowbabyloving

Quote: 





aspvr said:


> I Don't really care about voice,
> 
> The problem is my coax port is used for my 5.1 speakers,
> 
> ...


 

 Perhaps get some kind of digital audio splitter/switch and send signals to your speakers and the mixamp?


----------



## Aspvr

Quote: 





chowbabyloving said:


> Perhaps get some kind of digital audio splitter/switch and send signals to your speakers and the MixAmp?


 

  
  Unfortunately that's not an option, digital connection form my PC to the MixAmp is not possible as all my digital ports are connected to something right now and I'm using lots of splitters already (I have Xbox and PS3 connected to MixAmp and Speakers with optical splitters) 

 My only option is to connect the 3.5mm plug form the MixAmp and the one from the Xonar to the Fiio E9 Amp at the same time. This is the only option i seem to have 
   
  (besides manually disconnecting and connecting which has led to many many head and back injuries as bumped my head against the corner of my desk every single time)

 Anyone knows of a switch or splitter that would allow me to do this or some other solution?
 Whats the line-in connector of the Xonar for? Could that be of any help here?
   
  There's has to be something i can do


----------



## BlutoSlice

Yep I think you are right.
   
  To achive two inputs into the E9 you could try a 3.5mm splitter to share the line in port.
   
  http://www.gindart.com/buy/35mm-male-to-dual-female-audio-adapter-splitter-for-ipod-iphone-p-508.html
   
   
  It might work however as its in reverse you may need a switch \ joiner rather than a splitter, but thats not as common.  You could use a KVM with audio ports but thats not exactly elegant.
   
   
  The basic splitter is cheap enough to give it a try. Failing that either you have to swap the e9 cable over or get a new amp with two inputs.
   
   
   
  Fortunately my amp has two inputs so I bypass this problem.
   

  
  Quote: 





aspvr said:


> My only option is to connect the 3.5mm plug form the MixAmp and the one from the Xonar to the Fiio E9 Amp at the same time. This is the only option i seem to have


----------



## celcius

If I don't care about "virtual surround" and just want to connect my ad700's to my ps3 hiss-free, do you think the E9 alone would work?
  PS3 -> RCA -> 3.5mm adapter -> E9 -> headphones


----------



## Aspvr

Regarding that splitter I think I've heard somewhere that connecting two sources to a common splitter could potentially damage the sources, is this info correct? anyone knows?


 About buying an amp with two inputs I would had absolutely no problem with that. The thing is that I picked the E9 because MLE recommended it for the DT990 as he said that the Beyer's
   
  needed a particular kind of amp for use with DH, one that was neutral, that wouldn't distort their natural sound.

 If someone could recommend another amp with two inputs for the DT990 with the same characteristics as the E9 that would be awesome

 Would the Matrix M-Stage V2 work?
   
  I'm very open to suggestions


----------



## nullstring

Quote: 





aspvr said:


> Regarding that splitter I think I've heard somewhere that connecting two sources to a common splitter could potentially damage the sources, is this info correct? anyone knows?


 

 That is very possible. The amp in your sound card could try to drive the amp in your (PS3?) and vis versa causing damage.

  
  You're still better off using a digital splitter.
   
  EDIT: could you please describe your whole setup?
  How is the PS3 connected to the E9...


----------



## Aspvr

Thx for all your help guys really
   
  As you can see all i need is to connect the Xonar on the PC to the Amp


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





xpresser said:


> The DT 990 Premium 250ohm @ Amazon went up from $180 to $299!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  OK it looks like I missed out on this deal and after wait for this long I've decided to just get the DT990PRO - Open Studio Headphones 250 Ohms from Long and Mcquade in Canada. I'm still kicking myself for not jumping on that deal on Amazon considering it went on sale AND was able to ship it to Canada.
   
  But before I go ahead with this I just want to know if there is any difference between the DT990 PRO and the DT990 Premiums.
   
  Considering the 250 Ohms is easier to drive would I be alright with just the mixamp for sound and voice chat?


----------



## obazavil

@Aspvr
   
  Well, I DO love my DT990. They are amazing for music (I use them 80% for that purpose). Regarding games, I have not tested them for multiplayer a lot (since I have K702 for that). On single player and movies, the bass have a good "impact", so explosions and that stuff sound really great. MLE and many ppl say that DT990 are very good for multiplayer too.
   
  How much % you will use them for single player/multiplayer/movies/music? If you do a LOT of multiplayer the PC360 (found at ~$190) are a very all-around headset (with an included mic). Also I heard that with the bass boost of mixamp 5.8 they are good enough that many ppl don't feel the need to reach ther singleplayer headphones.
   
  Do I recommend the DT990? Yes I do. I have not tested them straight out of mixamp since when I do single player, I always connect the E9. I can do some tests if you want.
   
  You can order mixamp 5.8 and DT990 and test them. (MLE says they are cool without mixamp, but sometimes the lack of power can be noticed). If you think something is missing, you can order the E9 too.
   
  If you will only use them for gaming, save cash and just order the PC360 and mixamp 5.8:
  140 - mixamp
  20 - battery pack
  190 - pc360
  total: 350.00
   
  Now, if you will use them for music/gaming/movies, the DT990 600 is a very good option, and there I recommend you to get the whole set:
  140 - mixamp
  20 - battery pack
  319 - dt990
  200 - e7 (dac)+e9 (amp)
  total: 679.00
   
  Basically, depends what you need them for.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

A new contestant has arrived !
  I picked up the fisher fa 004 headphones for 40 euros.
  They are excelente for multiplayer gaming.
  They have  quite a  big soundstage  , balanced sound signature and controled bass.
  They are also very detailed and possess great imaging.


----------



## tibble89

Nice. Did you get them shipped from Russia or bought somewhere else?


----------



## boomer12

How easy is it to attach a mic to the side of DT990s with velcro?  Do the vents create a problem?
   
  thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say sticking a mic directly to the DT990s wouldn't be an easy task. Me and obazabil used the cheap Dealextreme clip on mic (which you clip on your shirt and works much better than the Zalman, and only costs $2.50 or so, though you will wait about a month...).

As for the DT990 straight off the Mixamp... only if you're not using a mic, and with the 600ohm, you may get clipping when deep bass is needed. I'd go for the 32ohm if you plan on gaming without an amp attached.

Though the volume is nearly the same between 32 and 600ohms, the driving force isn't. So getting the 600ohm and underdriving them renders the very subtle improvement of the 600ohm useless, so the 32ohm will sound better because of it.


----------



## boomer12

So the Dealextreme mic works with the Mixamp?  Because my old Zalman sure didn't (had to scream to get it to pick up).


----------



## Headfonenut123

@boomer12 
Funnily enough I just got my 2 dealextreme mics through the post yesterday and they are great with the mixamp and I also have the zalman mic, tried the dxmic out with my mate on zombies last night and he said the new one is much better than the zalman mic, for the price too you just can't go wrong with them. I managed to win a labtec lva7330 last week on eBay so I've got that to try too but I'm very happy with the dxmic, 100% definitely order it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have the Dealextreme still and had the Zalman. I hated the Zalman. Let's you know which is better.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Hello mr envy sir i think your headset/phones gaming guide is excellent and very informative and really gave me some great information and awnsered alot of questions and thoughts about what some headphones sound like and save me the hassle of ordering a pair to see what some sound like.I have a question, I know from your info that the dt990 premium 600 ohm will sound better than the 32ohm on the mixamp but my question is when using the 600ohm with an e9 and the mixamp can I use that 3.5mm male to 3.5mm male cable that comes with the wired mixamp as the cable to go from the mixamp headphone out to the e9? You know the one that is used if you want to feed audio from an iPod/phone to the mixamp into the game audio?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, just MLE is fine. XD

Yes, you can use that cable or any other 3.5mm cable. That's the one I used, actually.

BTW, I never said the 600ohm is better than the 32ohm. In fact, it may be better to get the 32ohm as you may not need to attach an amp after the Mixamp. The Mixamp drove the 32ohm DT880 I had well, though I'm not sure it would work as well with a mic attached.

The 600ohm may be SLIGHTLY better after amping for music, but I'm willing to be the difference is subtle at best. If I was gonna buy a DT990 right now, I'm sure I'd go for the 32ohm because of versatility.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Ok cool, so reguardless of setup and money if someone said to you for gaming immersion you can choose between an e9 amped dt990 600ohm or a 32ohm unamped, what would you go for?

I think I might have been putting zombie x thoughts as well into the equation when thinking bout the best one for gaming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let's just say that when you're GAMING, there's no way you'd pay attention to the subtle differences between the 32ohm and 600ohm.


Bear in mind that Zombie_X himself said the differences were subtle. Also his equipment would factor in some changes.

If I was buying the DT990 at this point, I would definitely go for the 32ohm.

I have a few friends who own 32, 250, and 600ohm DT880s in combinations. They themselves stated no real differences except volume levels. I can attest to the 32ohm DT880 being the best balanced headphone I have heard, even better than the K701. I wouldn't buy a Premium DT going off ohm ratings, but whatever works best for your setup. I think the 32ohms are severely underrated, beccause of the whole 'bigger numbers is better mentality'. Hell, my D7000 is 25ohms and smokes the crap out of anything I've heard to date. I wish I'd have bought the 32ohm DT990 over the 600ohm. Then I wouldn't have had my bass clip with the Mixamp, and may have never part with my DT990s.

Go to the sound science section and you'd see how many people say the DT880s sound almost exactly alike. Differences are blown out of proportion the same way ss amp differences are.


----------



## Headfonenut123

K that's good to know but what about in regards to using a mic at the same time? Will the mixamp still give it enough power? I remember reading something in zombie x thread that although impedance is low they have a high sensitivity? I dunno what that means but thought I'd mention it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say they're low impedance, LOW sensitivity. They need about as much volume as the 250 and 600ohms, which was certainly a bit too much for the Mixamp with voice chat mixed in. However, I didn't try my DT880's with a mic, so I can't say. All I know is the mixamp won't clip with the 32ohm but will with the 600ohm.


----------



## Headfonenut123

im not sure wether you are located in the uk or usa but MLE but do you where i can buy the 600ohm in the uk for a good price? they seem very hard to find like my ad 900 were and i dont want to import and risk getting charged at customs again


----------



## chinesekiwi

mad lust envy said:


> Go to the sound science section and you'd see how many people say the DT880s sound almost exactly alike. Differences are blown out of proportion the same way ss amp differences are.




Depends on the amp and it's ability to push voltage. The same sensitivity but more resistance means it requires more voltage to power properly. Some amps just cannot push out enough voltage to discern the differences between them.Yes, the sound signatures are similar but in quality wise they are not the same SQ wise. I've tried them all on the same amp that can push more than enough voltage (AMB m^3 DIY design amp, one of the best out there). AFAIK, only me and joker have heard a majority of different DT770, DT880, and DT990's on the same setup.


----------



## Xpresser

After reading the thread when it was first started, I bought the PC 360. I then bought the JVC HA-RX900 about a week later along with a Labtec LVA-7330 mic. After trying them both out many times for my Bad Company 2 gaming sessions (PC), I sold my PC 360's. It's not that the JVC's are better than the 360's but they are equal in my opinion and after coming to that conclusion I couldn't see spending that much money for the Sennheiser's. So I sold them for about the same price I paid for them.
   
  If you have been wanting to try the PC 360's but are hesitant about the cost then I highly suggest having a look at the JVC 900's (or 700's if you want to save even more $) with a dedicated mic attached. When I'm not gaming with the JVC's I am using them to watch movies and listen to music. They might not be the best at one single category but I feel they do a great job in most areas.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Good to know you are still using the mic I sold you.
   
  I had the sony sa5000 and a clip mic, but my friends were complaining of background noise from my mic, so I decided to change my setup. I bought a sennheiser pc360, but later found a good deal in some 3 years old hd555, so I bought the hd555 too. After that I bought a labtec mic to mic mod the hd555. If things go as I predict, I will sell the pc360 and keep the hd555 since a lot of people say they share the same drivers.
  
  Quote: 





xpresser said:


> After reading the thread when it was first started, I bought the PC 360. I then bought the JVC HA-RX900 about a week later along with a Labtec LVA-7330 mic. After trying them both out many times for my Bad Company 2 gaming sessions (PC), I sold my PC 360's. It's not that the JVC's are better than the 360's but they are equal in my opinion and after coming to that conclusion I couldn't see spending that much money for the Sennheiser's. So I sold them for about the same price I paid for them.
> 
> If you have been wanting to try the PC 360's but are hesitant about the cost then I highly suggest having a look at the JVC 900's (or 700's if you want to save even more $) with a dedicated mic attached. When I'm not gaming with the JVC's I am using them to watch movies and listen to music. They might not be the best at one single category but I feel they do a great job in most areas.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chinesekiwi said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > Go to the sound science section and you'd see how many people say the DT880s sound almost exactly alike. Differences are blown out of proportion the same way ss amp differences are.
> ...




Not to discredit you and Zombie's claims, but people like to turn a 5% difference into a 25% difference, same as they do with amps, which are meant to amp a headphone, not transform their signatures into something else.

In any case, with their setups and amps, they have tested a 32 vs 600 ohm, and a 250 vs 600ohm. The differences to them was so insignificant that they'd say it wasn't a difference. If you have to buy a $1000 amp to discern the differences, well... its just stupid to amp an amped Dolby Headphone signal with something so expensive just to justify getting the 600ohm.

Also for the purpose of gaming, the slight differences wouldn't even be noticeable as you are focusing on the games and not every particular nuance of the sound.

600ohm is overkill for the Mixamp, and can sound worse due to its inability to drive them well. So to drive them well, you'd have to amp the already amped signal which might be worse than just amping the 32 ohm with the Mixamp only.

Like I said, go to the sound science section to the DT880 thread, and you'd see just how many people can't tell the difference between the 250 and 600ohm. Its a huge debate, that will never end, but if the sound is so close to be debated, I'd rather get one more versatile and able to be properly driven by more source and amps than just shine with a ridiculously overpriced amp that not many can afford, and even then that's debateable.


If its one thing I learned on Head-Fi, its that people love to make something miniscule into something grand.


----------



## tdockweiler

Here is what you do... don't take anyone's word for it and try out ALL DT-880 versions with your own ears. I don't think any of the differences are subtle and are easy to spot for some people. I do agree that it's only a 5% difference in sound quality but I wouldn't call that subtle. It all depends on what sound you want.
   
  I tried all 3 and I EASILY heard a difference between them. I felt that the DT-880 250 ohm version had the best vocals and was the least fatiguing when it comes to it's treble. That's what my ears heard. DT-880 600 ohm version was too treble happy and the 32 ohm vocals I didn't like. I was actually surprised to find I liked the 250 ohm version more than the 600 ohm version. Most people who love classical will probably prefer the 600 ohm version for the extra treble and supposedly better bass.
   
  I think this will make a slight difference in games and is important. Why would I want the most treble happy version if it bother's my ears and another version doesn't? One also has better mids than the other. Still even important for gaming.
   
  BTW I think many people won't be able to tell the difference between all 3 versions. I think you do need some trained ears. No, I don't have golden ears or whatever, but they're good enough to spot the differences.
   
  For most everyone though it's not worth upgrading from one version to the other unless you can do a return.
   
  I do agree that most people blow it away out of proportion and say it's such a massive difference, but I don't agree that there is no difference in the sound since I've heard the differences myself.
   
  Of course just get the easiest to drive version and be done with it! Chances are that if you don't like it you won't like any of the other versions! Actually I should just shut up with my stupid comments because I hated the 32 ohm version and only liked the 250/600 versions


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly don't believe it will make a lick of difference as if there's a difference its too subtle. Its not like going from a 595 to a 598. Its like EQ-ing half a decibel more or less. Not enough to make or break anything, especially for gaming.

I'd go for 32ohms.

Hate the 600ohm elitist nonsense. Its not practical for most people, yet they get it anyways because of the head-fi brainwashing. 

I felt my 32ohm DT880 was every bit as good as the 600ohm DT990 and DT770 I had. And please don't say its because my amp can't handle it. That debate ended for me once milosz made the amp a/b comparison thread. Amps are the last thing I care about now. Once I get the Lyr, I'm done with that nonsense.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly don't believe it will make a lick of difference as if there's a difference its too subtle. Its not like going from a 595 to a 598. Its like EQ-ing half a decibel more or less. Not enough to make or break anything, especially for gaming.
> 
> I'd go for 32ohms.
> 
> ...


 


  Are you saying that if you had to do it all over again you would get the DT990 32ohm instead of the 600 ohm? Would the astro mixamp be enough to power the DT990/32ohm with voice chat?


----------



## obazavil

Well... since I do use my DT990 600Ohms 80% for music, and 20% for gaming... I think the minimal extra quality is worth the amp.
   
  However, indeed, the need to use an amp btw mixamp and headphones, is a PAIN. (Since I move them from wok to home when I want to play single player).
   
  So, if you will use them ONLY for gaming, the 32 Ohms would be enough, maybe, as MLE says.
   
  btw... damn... those DT990 are US ~$300 now... seems they are not going down soon... glad I got them for ~220 last year...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





matryx said:


> Are you saying that if you had to do it all over again you would get the DT990 32ohm instead of the 600 ohm? Would the astro mixamp be enough to power the DT990/32ohm with voice chat?


 

 Yes on your first question, I'm not sure on your second question. If the 32ohm doesn't have the volume necessary when voice chat is mixed in, then it's pointless getting the 32ohm. I'd say the 250ohm would make the most sense as portable amps can drive 250ohms well, and 600ohms if you have an amp capable of handling 600hms with ease.
   
  Still, I'd still say the 32ohm is the most versatile and capable of being driven by the most sources. I bought the 600ohm because of all the '600ohm is the best version of all the Premium Beyers talk'. I learned to take what Head-fiers say with a grain of salt. It'll all subjective opinions (including my own), so in the end buy what you think suits you best, not what people try to force onto you. One person says one thing is the best, then the rest follow. This is why no new headphone get tried. Everyone has the bandwagon mentality, and the lesser known products get kicked aside.
   
  Reminds me of the Creative Aurvana Live or Denon D1001 topics. They're basically the same damn headphone, but people would suggest the Denon because it's a Denon, and it costs more so it must be better. @_@ The ONE person on here that actually DID try both, actually preferred the CAL, lol.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

What the heck is this? 
   
  Anyone tried these out?  
   
http://dealzon.com/deals/sony-dr-ga500-headset


----------



## mcnoiserdc

lol, I almost bought one once...
  
  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> What the heck is this?
> 
> Anyone tried these out?
> 
> http://dealzon.com/deals/sony-dr-ga500-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> What the heck is this?
> 
> Anyone tried these out?
> 
> http://dealzon.com/deals/sony-dr-ga500-headset


 

 I was actually gonna buy this before I went for the HD598 (then to PC360).
   
  Reviews by Steggy wasn't exactly enthusiastic about it. I've also heard the mic is pretty crappy. I was hoping it'd perform like a baby MDR-F1.
   
  What gets me is that it's closed back, but fully open in front of the drivers. It's an awkward design.
   
  As for the version with the surround decoder, it tacks on over $100 over the price of the headset alone and is said to perform pretty much like a Mixamp that only works on PC.
   
  In the end... I'd skip this.


----------



## chicolom

Weird and confusing looking headphone.  And i've never been a fan of those cheek mics that don't pick up your voice as well.
   
  14 - 22,000 Hz freq response  :\
   
  It also has an usual decoder box you can get that takes in _analog _surround inputs and pro-logic-fy's  it into a dobly-headphone-esque signal....I think...I don't really know TBH  :S


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, your avatar made me chuckle. XD
   
  The HPX vice grip must have been too much in that cap.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes on your first question, I'm not sure on your second question. If the 32ohm doesn't have the volume necessary when voice chat is mixed in, then it's pointless getting the 32ohm. I'd say the 250ohm would make the most sense as portable amps can drive 250ohms well, and 600ohms if you have an amp capable of handling 600hms with ease.
> 
> Still, I'd still say the 32ohm is the most versatile and capable of being driven by the most sources. I bought the 600ohm because of all the '600ohm is the best version of all the Premium Beyers talk'. I learned to take what Head-fiers say with a grain of salt. It'll all subjective opinions (including my own), so in the end buy what you think suits you best, not what people try to force onto you. One person says one thing is the best, then the rest follow. This is why no new headphone get tried. Everyone has the bandwagon mentality, and the lesser known products get kicked aside.
> 
> Reminds me of the Creative Aurvana Live or Denon D1001 topics. They're basically the same damn headphone, but people would suggest the Denon because it's a Denon, and it costs more so it must be better. @_@ The ONE person on here that actually DID try both, actually preferred the CAL, lol.


 


 Well I don't really want to get the E9 if they Astro mixamp is enough for the DT900/250 ohm or the 32ohm with voice chat. I'll make a new thread or do a search and see if anyone has tried that setup yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There's NO point to make a new thread. All the gamers are undoubtedly visiting this thread, especially Mixamp owners. And the majority of Head-fiers all have 250-600ohm, not the 32ohm.
   
  I'm gonna ask someone who DOES own a 32ohm DT880 AND a Mixamp. I'll just ask him to set the game/voice balance to about 1-2 o clock on the voice side, which is where a lot of people I know like their balance.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude, your avatar made me chuckle. XD
> 
> The HPX vice grip must have been too much in that cap.


 
   
  HAHA
   
  Ya me and my friend couldn't decide if he was getting a BJ or taking it from behind, Lol
   
  I apologize If I crossed a head-fi line, please don't ban me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is directly related...


----------



## shamrock134

I thought I'd give the Edition 8 a go at gaming just for the craic last night.
   
  It actually performed really well in a versus game of L4D2! This was with Dolby Headphone enabled and 8 channels.
   
  Positioning and spacial awareness were really good. I could easily locate the special infected by their sounds and at one point dodged a charger that was charging from behind me without actually seeing it.
   
  I think it's as good as my Pro900, but without the powerful bass masking details like smoker coughs or boomer gargles in heated battles with the horde!


----------



## Goride

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, or if I should go to the computer audio forum.
   
  Anyway, I want a sound card that supports Dolby Digital Live output so that I can use my Mixamp with my PC.  I'm looking for the cheapest possible solution.
   
   
  THis one: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SND-P8CH-8-Channel-High-Performance-Controller/dp/B000BRLY8O claims to have Dolby Digital Live, but descriptions of this card on other sites, don't seem to mention it, so I'm a little apprehensive.  It is only $15 though.
   
   
  EDIT:
   
   
  Maybe I got a little ahead of myself.  I do NEED a sound card that outputs Dolby Digital Live in order to get the Mixamp's 3d positional effect, right?


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I believe all you need is to hook the Mixamp up to your PC with a USB connection.  If you have onboard sound that outputs optical you can also use that instead of USB to provide audio.  No special sound card is needed.
   
  However, if you are just using it for the PC a dedicated soundcard would give you more control over dolby headphone settings allowing you to tweak the presentation to your liking.  The mixamp does not over that functionality.


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





goride said:


> I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post, or if I should go to the computer audio forum.
> 
> Anyway, I want a sound card that supports Dolby Digital Live output so that I can use my Mixamp with my PC.  I'm looking for the cheapest possible solution.
> 
> ...


 


  Have you tried looking at Asus Xonar DG?


----------



## chemist323

[size=small]First of all, thank you to all who  made this post educational and interesting enough to read through all of it [size=small](yeah, I know, some crazy I am).  Nevertheless, I have come to a semi-conclusion of my headphone options but would like your opinion. [/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]My requirements:[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]-All around headphone: with slightly better performance for Xbox gaming over music & movies[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]-Relatively inexpensive: <$200 but considering $200-300 range.[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]-A headphone that does not require a separate amp (i.e. K70x) even though I will use voice chat over XBL.[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]Of note: I will be using a mixamp 5.8 with these.[/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small] [/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]Based on all the opinions and comments in this thread, I’m leaning towards: hd595, hd598,  hd555 (modded to 595), dt990 (32ohm).  [/size][/size][/size]
  [size=small][size=small][size=small]I know historically the 595 have been used and praised extensively for gaming however, I haven’t read many recent recommendations.  This may be due to the fact that they are older or the hd598 has overtaken them in performance or because of the cracking issues.  Therefore, the 598 would appear to have everything I would want but they are rather ugly in color (to me) so it comes down to the 595 or the dt990.  I’ve read that the dt990 32ohm are versatile and can be driven with the mixamp even with voice chat (correct me if I’m wrong).  What I am curious about is whether the dt990 32ohm will sound good when connected directly into an ipod/laptop without an external amp (E7, E9, etc).  If I needed to, I may buy the E5 (because it’s inexpensive) when using my ipod/laptop to help drive the dt990 although not sure if this would make any difference.  My biggest hesitation though is getting something that will require an E7/E9 amp.  What do you guys think?  Thanks for your help and input, this thread has been extremely informative as I’ve already bought the dealextreme mic over the zalman that I once read so much about.  One last thing to consider, I have a $200 gift card to Sony website that I can potentially use to buy Sony headphones although I have not seen many recommendations for Sony phones (except for older one like the MDR-F1, which is no longer sold on their website) and their selection is limited ([/size][size=small]http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=28873&N=4294966060&catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&accessory=true[/size][size=small]).   I'm also open to suggestions/recommendations.  Thanks again and sorry for the long post.[/size][/size][/size]


----------



## chicolom

If you think HD598s are ugly you could look at the HD558s, which can be had for ~$130 i believe...


----------



## pp312

The 598s are ugly? My god, I think they're the most beautiful headphones I've ever seen.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





pp312 said:


> The 598s are ugly? My god, I think they're the most beautiful headphones I've ever seen.


 


  I thought they were beautiful too, until I saw them in person. They are gaudy, plasticky, and UGLY as sin in person. Don't go off what you seen in pictures. Good thing that they at least sound great.
   
  Plastic works when it's in a dark color, like the PC360 and HD558. That cream color just really highlights how cheap the plastic looks.


----------



## Styles

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There's NO point to make a new thread. All the gamers are undoubtedly visiting this thread, especially Mixamp owners. And the majority of Head-fiers all have 250-600ohm, not the 32ohm.
> 
> I'm gonna ask someone who DOES own a 32ohm DT880 AND a Mixamp. I'll just ask him to set the game/voice balance to about 1-2 o clock on the voice side, which is where a lot of people I know like their balance.


 

 The MMX 300 are 32ohm and sound great with the Mixamp only.  I have added the E9 and holy crap!!!!! way better now. With that said, if price has you in a spot then go 32 ohm so you dont "need" to amp after the Mixamp.  If you want the best SQ (IMO), then Mixamp + Amp and youre "WINNING!!!" Yeah I look like the dude in the poster when I rock my MMX 300's, what? 
   
  I think Ill scoop some PC360's soon so I can do a good compare of the Beyer MMX 300 to them side by side.


----------



## chemist323

Hey MLE and others,
  [size=small]Any thoughts on how the dt990 32ohm will sound good when connected directly into an ipod/laptop without an external amp (E7, E9, etc).  If I needed to, I may buy the E5 (because it’s inexpensive) when using my ipod/laptop to help drive the dt990 although not sure if this would make any difference.  My biggest hesitation though is getting phones that will require an E7/E9 amp.  Thanks again.  [/size]
  [size=small]PS. I admit, I haven't seen the hd598s in person but I'm wondering how the color would look after a years of use/abuse after being placed on desk/counters/head, etc.  I imagine a nasty mixture of cream and black, which would not be readily seen on the headphones with a black/dark headband.[/size]


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





chemist323 said:


> Hey MLE and others,
> [size=small]Any thoughts on how the dt990 32ohm will sound good when connected directly into an ipod/laptop without an external amp (E7, E9, etc).  If I needed to, I may buy the E5 (because it’s inexpensive) when using my ipod/laptop to help drive the dt990 although not sure if this would make any difference.  My biggest hesitation though is getting phones that will require an E7/E9 amp.  Thanks again.  [/size]
> [size=small]PS. I admit, I haven't seen the hd598s in person but I'm wondering how the color would look after a years of use/abuse after being placed on desk/counters/head, etc.  I imagine a nasty mixture of cream and black, which would not be readily seen on the headphones with a black/dark headband.[/size]


 

 I'm getting my DT990/32 in the mail tomorrow so impressions will follow.  MLE, I'll be sure to include how it performs with the Mixamp alone - that includes with voice.


----------



## chemist323

Quote:


boomer12 said:


> I'm getting my DT990/32 in the mail tomorrow so impressions will follow.  MLE, I'll be sure to include how it performs with the Mixamp alone.


 

 Sweet!  I'll be looking forward to your comments since these are the headphones I'm leaning towards getting.  By the way, where did you buy them from?  You know of any deals?  Thanks


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Styles* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I think Ill scoop some PC360's soon so I can do a good compare of the Beyer MMX 300 to them side by side.


 
   
  Nice!


----------



## kingpage

Mad Lust Envy, you need to try the the dynamat and pad mods as described here to your CAL if you still own them. And do the comparison again.
   
  Not much of a gamer myself, but I recently found out about iz3d and some free FPS games like HL2 Deathmatch and F.E.A.R Combat, etc.
   
  Great thread for a great read!


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Hi!
   
  well I have my sennheiser pc360 now, I didn't try the mic yet, but it is really different from the hd555/595.
  The bass seems more defined and the treble is really how I like it, it is sharp, with the right amount of sparkle, not like the dt990 violence or the hd600 smoothness. 
  The mids seem a bit recessed, but with this treble, gaming will be great!
  I really recommend it for who has the money...! if not get yourself a hd555 and mod it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the mids not to be recessed. They're just not emphasized. The PC360 is about as flat as I've personally heard from a headphone, more than DT880 (mid recessed because of slight v curve), K701 (rising freq, mid and treble emphasized), HD598 (slight upside down U, mid emphasized, slightly more treble than bass). The HD555/595 may be mid emphasized in comparison to the PC360. On the PC360 nothing has any major emphasis, which is why it's so good for gaming. Nothing is lost, nothing is gained. It isn't the most exciting headphone (but the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost works well with the PC360 for those looking for single player immersion, just enough bass for me not to need any more, and it's quality bass), but it doesn't have any glaring problems either.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Well it seems a bit recessed to me, may be my idea of balance is not the same as yours, but I have experienced neutral headphones like the sennheiser hd600, audio technica ck10, and the mids on the pc360 didn't seem as forward as on those at least.
  Anyway what I really want to show is that it has good bass quality, and also sparkly treble which is great for gaming in my opinion, as it makes it fun and competitive.
   
  This is really the THING for gaming when off-budget.
   
  At least we share this last opinion.


----------



## boomer12

OK guys, my first 10 minute impressions of the DT990/32.  Keep in mind that I'm not an audiophile by any stretch, just a hardcore gamer.
   
  First off, the Mixamp has no trouble powering them. The Shotgun Pistol in Killzone 3 sounded immaculate with the master volume set to about 10-11 o' clock and game/voice set to about 1 o' clock.  Bass is deep and sounds are clear.  Also for you competitive players out there, I had no trouble attaching a Labtec boom mic to the left side with a velcro square - hopefully it holds (looking good so far). 
   
  Oh, and they seemed to work fine with my computer unamped.  Just had to turn the volume up a bit higher than I did with my Astro A30s - maybe 5 or so points.
   
  Great cans, I recommend them.  Maybe I'll post some more thoughts down the road.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Can you take a picture?
  
  Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> OK guys, my first 10 minute impressions of the DT990/32.  Keep in mind that I'm not an audiophile by any stretch, just a hardcore gamer.
> 
> First off, the Mixamp has no trouble powering them. The Shotgun Pistol in Killzone 3 sounded immaculate with the master volume set to about 10-11 o' clock and game/voice set to about 1 o' clock.  Bass is deep and sounds are clear.  Also for you competitive players out there, I had no trouble attaching a Labtec boom mic to the left side with a velcro square - hopefully it holds (looking good so far).
> 
> ...


----------



## boomer12

Still holding great.  The velcro square attached to the headphones doesn't move at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes me really feel like getting the 32ohms. How's positional awareness, treble, etc?

Okay, I spent the better part of yesterday testing out something...

Mass Effect 2 on PS3. This game is one of my fave games to testing out sound placement with my headphones. There's plenty of sounds in. The game that you can easily pinpoint around you with Dolby Headphone and a good pair of cans.

So I decided to test out the game directly out of the PS3's composite (which has the RCA audio hookups for direct line out) into my E9, to all my headphones for STEREO gaming. I wanted to see how close that stereo sound was to the Mixamp without virtual surround on. Positional-wise, it waas the same as the Mixamp with DH off. I kept playing anyway to see how accurate stereo sound placement was.

Headphone gaming in stereo is playable, but its seriously like all sounds are place in almost a straight line mostly in front of you. There is no rear depth to speak of. It was a far cry from the amazing 360 soundfield Dolby Headphone places you in. I'm apalled that some people actually think stereo headphone gaming is accurate compared to DH gaming. Its night and day really. With my PC360, it sounded so damn easy to pinpoint sounds around me, especially the tough ones behind me. In stereo, I tried so hard to adjust to how rear sound placement sounds like and it was impossible. So tbh, unless you're deaf or something, there's no comparison. Get Dolby Headphone for gaming and use it for a few days and go back to stereo and tell me sound placement is even remotely close to comparable.


----------



## chemist323

thanks for posting your findings. 
  -how is the treble?  I've ready that it can be pretty harsh/piercing. 
  -What other headphones have you tried and how do these compare? 
  Thanks again.

  
  Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> OK guys, my first 10 minute impressions of the DT990/32.  Keep in mind that I'm not an audiophile by any stretch, just a hardcore gamer.
> 
> First off, the Mixamp has no trouble powering them. The Shotgun Pistol in Killzone 3 sounded immaculate with the master volume set to about 10-11 o' clock and game/voice set to about 1 o' clock.  Bass is deep and sounds are clear.  Also for you competitive players out there, I had no trouble attaching a Labtec boom mic to the left side with a velcro square - hopefully it holds (looking good so far).
> 
> ...


----------



## mcnoiserdc

piercing treble irritates me for music, but for gaming, I love it.


----------



## chemist323

is it bad enough that you would refuse to use it for music? 
  Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> piercing treble irritates me for music, but for gaming, I love it.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

It is not that I refuse it, it is fun for music, but I listen to a lot of hip hop with lots of treble and bass, so it is kind of irritating to listen to it while working because of the treble, but for active listening it is ok


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





> Makes me really feel like getting the 32ohms. How's positional awareness, treble, etc?


 
   
  Been playing a ton of Dead Space 2 and I have no complaints about positioning. Bass is superb as well, especially with the Plasma Cutter (packs a hell of a punch for such a small gun).  For treble, I'm too experienced with it, but I didn't notice any fatigue/annoyance from high-pitched sounds if that's what you mean.
   
  Quote: 





> is it bad enough that you would refuse to use it for music?


 
   

 I listened to rock and hip hop music for about 2 hours straight last night directly from my laptop's terrible sound card (iTunes, EQ off) and again, no fatigue or anything from high-pitched sounds.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

_____


----------



## chicolom

MLE, whats up with the post #1 of this thread dissapearing?...


----------



## tdockweiler

He's retired from here. He told me he has downgraded to only the KSC75 and Super Mario Brothers 3. He told me not to tell anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> MLE, whats up with the post #1 of this thread dissapearing?...


----------



## shimbibby

I just got the dt990/32 about 2 weeks ago and am very happy with them! They work awesome with the mixamp and sound great and full while listening to music.
   
  My question is how come the round part around the earcup is blue?


----------



## tdockweiler

It means it's fake! Kidding, it's just to show that some models are the 32 ohm version. Strangely my DT-880 32 ohm version doesn't have that and I confirmed it's 32 ohms.
   
  So far I'm loving my DT-880 also. Definitely a keeper. Usually when I love a headphone on the first day, often I'll like it a whole lot less the next day. Not this time. What makes no sense is that it's less fatiguing than my HD-650 I also got 2 weeks ago.
   
  Can't wait to try them with gaming tonight. They're also not as boring as I expected.
   
   
  Quote: 





shimbibby said:


> I just got the dt990/32 about 2 weeks ago and am very happy with them! They work awesome with the mixamp and sound great and full while listening to music.
> 
> My question is how come the round part around the earcup is blue?


----------



## chemist323

Hey shimbibby,
  -when you're listening to music, are you using an amp or are your plugging directly into laptop/mp3 player?
  -whats your opinion on the treble, is it bothersome? 
   
  I just got my mixamp today but waiting for a good deal on the 990/32 to splurge on.  Meanwhile, I'll have to use the Senn HD201s or my surround sound.  Oh well, gotta be patient.
   
  Quote: 





shimbibby said:


> I just got the dt990/32 about 2 weeks ago and am very happy with them! They work awesome with the mixamp and sound great and full while listening to music.
> 
> My question is how come the round part around the earcup is blue?


----------



## canoners

tdockweiler said:


> He's retired from here. He told me he has downgraded to only the KSC75 and Super Mario Brothers 3. He told me not to tell anyone.




What? Really?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably some mod friend of someone I was arguing against on another topic decided to delete my post? No worries. I still have it up on AVS. Lol.
   
  The post is back for the most part.


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> He's retired from here. He told me he has downgraded to only the KSC75 and Super Mario Brothers 3. He told me not to tell anyone.


 

 And you did anyway.


----------



## canoners

mad lust envy said:


> Probably some mod friend of someone I was arguing against on another topic decided to delete my post? No worries. I still have it up on AVS. Lol.
> 
> The post is back for the most part.




lolwut?


----------



## Synergy Sound

I've taken this post from a gaming forum (with permission) that's worth noting here.
   
  Quote: 





> So firstly: I've noticed a lot of people recommending surround headsets. *STOP IT*. They are a bad idea no matter the price range; I'll explain the how and why.
> 
> *Why you should NOT buy surround sound headsets:*
> 
> ...


----------



## mcnoiserdc

I have to disagree with this. In terms of pure information to help one in a multiplayer map, the Sharkoon x-tatic digital, a multiple drivers headset, similar to tritton axpro, was the best headset I have tried in all the configuration I tried.
  I could hear more than half the maps and could clearly distinguish directions. I only stopped using multiple drivers headset as I was afraid it was too much drivers next to my head (8 drivers). It couldn't give me the audio quality I get from my pc360, but it gave me more information even at lower volume.
  The drivers don't muffle on another. The sound was clear, but I do think many people won't deal well with it because it is just too much information, but I just loved. I could hear everything from everywhere, in gears of war 2 for example I could locate everyone in the map.  With dolby digital, I would have to turn the volume way high to hear things I can hear with lower volumes using multiple drivers headset.
   
   
  In fact I have money put aside to buy a multi driver headset when gears of war 3 comes by, as mad catz will have headset which won't require one to plug it on the controller, as part of the deal they signed with microsoft earlier this year.
  Quote: 





synergy sound said:


> I've taken this post from a gaming forum (with permission) that's worth noting here.


----------



## nneo

Hi, my KSC75 just died so i'm looking for a new gaming headphone.
  Considering about Koss Pro DJ 100 and JVC HA-RX700, which are at the same price $70-80 and available at my location.
  Do they worth the money upgrading from KSC75 or just buy a new one ?
  Any advice ?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





nneo said:


> Hi, my KSC75 just died so i'm looking for a new gaming headphone.
> Considering about Koss Pro DJ 100 and JVC HA-RX700, which are at the same price $70-80 and available at my location.
> Do they worth the money upgrading from KSC75 or just buy a new one ?
> Any advice ?


 


 Well If _my_ KSC75 died on me, I would replace them (and they actually have, and I did - LOL)
   
  But seriously:
   
  There are a couple of HD555 on the for sale forum for $50, and you can't go wrong for that price.  They would be an upgrade for gaming.
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/544640/sennheiser-hd555-shipping-included-for-conus
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/544725/sennheiser-hd-555-50-shipped
   
  I think Koss has a lifetime warranty on the KSC75, so if you pay $5 shipping or something Koss will replace them.
   
  So I would go that route ^, _and _get some 555's if it were me....


----------



## chicolom

Oh, and welcome to Head-fi!


----------



## kingpage

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> The drivers don't muffle on another. The sound was clear, but I do think many people won't deal well with it because it is just too much information, but I just loved. I could hear everything from everywhere, in gears of war 2 for example I could locate everyone in the map.  With dolby digital, I would have to turn the volume way high to hear things I can hear with lower volumes using multiple drivers headset.


 
  The ability to locate everyone is a result of major colouring of the sound. Sure, it does give you an artificially boosted edge.


----------



## Shad0w99

Really awesome thread! So helpful. You mentioned that you can get a Sennheiser PC360 for $180. Where can I buy this headset for this price? Is this for a used one? Any help would be great!
   
   
  Thank you


----------



## canoners

shad0w99 said:


> Really awesome thread! So helpful. You mentioned that you can get a Sennheiser PC360 for $180. Where can I buy this headset for this price? Is this for a used one? Any help would be great!
> 
> 
> Thank you




http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=sennheiser+pc+360&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Just put a bid on one of the 179.95 ones, there are usually no other people bidding.


----------



## tibble89

Why do a lot of people hate true surround sound, it's impossible to tell people what's best for them. I have mixamp + ad700 and there really is no positioning on this for me, so now I just stick with my TV speakers.. I'll probably get a good surround sound setup for xbox and hopefully works better.. can't be worse, only thing worse is just standard stereo.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Coloring of sound? lol! what about the sound from dolby headphones?. lol
  
  Quote: 





kingpage said:


> The ability to locate everyone is a result of major colouring of the sound. Sure, it does give you an artificially boosted edge.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Give a try on the sharkoon xtatic digital. They are not very comfortable, a bit heavy, audio quality not on par with many good headphones around. But in terms of surround sound, simply amazing. Watching movies with the sharkoon was a funtastic experience.
  
  Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Why do a lot of people hate true surround sound, it's impossible to tell people what's best for them. I have mixamp + ad700 and there really is no positioning on this for me, so now I just stick with my TV speakers.. I'll probably get a good surround sound setup for xbox and hopefully works better.. can't be worse, only thing worse is just standard stereo.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> ... I have mixamp + ad700 and there really is no positioning on this for me, so now I just stick with my TV speakers.. I'll probably get a good surround sound setup for xbox and hopefully works better.. can't be worse, only thing worse is just standard stereo.


 


  That seems, suspicious.  If you can't get good positioning from AD700s and a Mixamp....something's not right..
   
  You should check your setup to make everything is correct and your not getting pro logic instead (are you using optical, Xbox set to DD 5.1, Dolby headphone toggled ON?)
   
   
  Listen to this clip with your AD700's, and if you can't hear positioning with that, you should probably give up on using headphones for gaming...
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkunPQMhN4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, something ain't right. If you can't reliably pinpoint directional sounds with the AD700 + Mixamp, I wouldn't even bother with surround headsets either.


----------



## tibble89

Think I tried the that link and also the virtual haircut thing, and both sounded good, and that's with realtek onboard.. Using an optical cable for xbox but also tried RCA and it's same, barely hear footsteps.. 5.1 set on xbox and right light on mixamp is glowing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're trying to pinpoint footsetps in BLACK OPS, then you won't be happy with ANY headphone. Black Ops just doesn't offer good audio cues or footsteps compared to other games. Also, some games don't put a lot of stock to footsteps the way CoD4 and MW2 do. YMMV. If you're only going off footsteps, that's where you're making a mistake. Even a good cheap headphone like the KSC75 can pick up micro details in gaming, as long as there IS micro details to pick up.
   
  Focus on positional accuracy, and not just the level of detail coming from the Mixamp + AD700. The AD700 is a detail whore, and if you can't hear footsteps, then that's because the footsteps just aren't emphasized enough for you to hear them. Also, contrary to popular belief, you won't be able to hear footsteps of people who use Ninja Pro or Dead Silence. You can hear your OWN if you have those perks equiped, however. There's so much BULLCRAP going on about how a particular headset can pick out enemies using those perks, and it's a blatant lie. I've used so many headphones (including the detail monster K701), and I've gone to private rooms with people using Ninja Pro and Dead Silence. You CAN'T hear their footsteps.


----------



## tibble89

I play both MW2 and BlackOps, but I rarely hear people who're close, and I don't think many use Ninja Pro in MW2.. What cables people using for video, maybe that's reason? For a long time I used VGA, using SCART on this TV is awful, but going to try that for a few games and see how it goes.


----------



## shimbibby

Hey,
  I dont have an amp for the 990/32. I plug them directly into my macbook and/or iphone and the volume is more than loud; I wont even put it on max volume. They can be driven pretty easily.
   
  As far as the treble, its definitely a "bright" sounding headphone, but I really dont mind it that much. The reason is mainly because the sound it produces is so clear and the fact you are really able to hear the entire sound spectrum make the excessive treble fine. I will admit that at first the treble was fatiguing (that paired with the "clamping" caused me to need to take a break) but I got used to it fairly quickly and now they are great. Also, I use the iTunes EQ and add more bass and mids to the sound.
   
  I'm also using them with the mixamp for gaming and they are excellent. They even work with a mic attached to them (maybe 1 o'clock on the volume, 1 o'clock for game/voice).
   
  I definitely recommend them!
  Quote: 





chemist323 said:


> Hey shimbibby,
> -when you're listening to music, are you using an amp or are your plugging directly into laptop/mp3 player?
> -whats your opinion on the treble, is it bothersome?
> 
> I just got my mixamp today but waiting for a good deal on the 990/32 to splurge on.  Meanwhile, I'll have to use the Senn HD201s or my surround sound.  Oh well, gotta be patient.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What? Lol, no. Just use an toslink optical cable. They all have the same exact SQ as long as there is no disruption.
   
  If you have been using the Mixamp + AD700 and can't hear footsteps, then everyone must be:
   
  using Ninja Pro
  crouching as they walk
  not moving at all.
   
  Those are the only three examples where you won't be to hear footsteps. That, or you have problems hearing, sorry. I can pick up footsteps with even the crappiest headphone with the Mixamp, as long as one of the 3 above examples aren't happening.
   
  Also, make sure your Xbox is set to Dolby Digital, not Digital Stereo.
   
  The cable might have to run from the system directly to the Mixamp, as running an optical to the TV to the Mixamp, you are more than likely using a downconverted signal which makes everything Stereo. Lots of TVs don't have optical passthrough.


----------



## chicolom

Ya, make sure your not running optical from Xbox --> TV --> to mixamp.  A lot of the time TVs screw up the DD 5.1 signal when you pass through them.
   
  When I had my old xbox I used HDMI out to the TV, and used the microsoft audio dongle adapter to go Toslink straight into the mixamp.
  http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Xbox-Audio-Dongle-Adapter-Cable/dp/B002WIG4LW
   
  Now I have the xbox slim, and that has a dedicated optical out port.
   
  If its doing pro logic it would sound like the sound is just pushed out in all 4 directions, but there is no clear directionality.
  Dolby Headphone should sound cleaner and have discrete directionality in the sounds that you can hear.


----------



## tibble89

Optical goes from my Slim to mixamp, tried BlackOps on my HD tv with HDMI and I'm positive I hear more on blackops, mm..
   
  I may try another pair of headphones before I try surround sound, not sure.. hopefully something which fits better, AD700's don't seem to like my ears/head much.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Optical goes from my Slim to mixamp, tried BlackOps on my HD tv with HDMI and I'm positive I hear more on blackops, mm..
> 
> I may try another pair of headphones before I try surround sound, not sure.. hopefully something which fits better, AD700's don't seem to like my ears/head much.


 

 Try turning down the music from the options menu.  AD700's aren't my favorite but goddamn do they let you know *everything* that's going on around you.  Very strange problem you're having.


----------



## velvet396

I put a post in the "general advice" thread but didn't see any responses.  I guess I'm all but decided on Senn 555's and mixamp 5.8.
   
  The last piece of the puzzle is getting a *mute switch* for whatever mic I choose.
  I saw one on amazon by Intec/Datel but it is offered used by someone, and given the reviews about the build quality, I'd rather get one new.
   
  I have searched seemingly everywhere I know to look to find a mute switch solution, to no avail.  I really like the idea of the intec solution as it puts the switch on the controller like it was with the original 360 headset.
   
  Somebody please help.  Being able to mute easily is a key function for me, my wife makes a habit of asking me important or detailed questions while I'm gaming and I would explode without a mute switch.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Why don't you just buy the sennheiser pc360. In my opinion it is better than hd555 as a gaming headphones, plus the built in mic with easy mute function
  
  Quote: 





velvet396 said:


> I put a post in the "general advice" thread but didn't see any responses.  I guess I'm all but decided on Senn 555's and mixamp 5.8.
> 
> The last piece of the puzzle is getting a *mute switch* for whatever mic I choose.
> I saw one on amazon by Intec/Datel but it is offered used by someone, and given the reviews about the build quality, I'd rather get one new.
> ...


----------



## velvet396

Simple.  The PC360 is $250.  The HD555 is $85.
  
  Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> Why don't you just buy the sennheiser pc360. In my opinion it is better than hd555 as a gaming headphones, plus the built in mic with easy mute function


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you don't know how to find deals, the PC360 shouldn't cost you more than $180, which IMHO is totally worth it for the mic, easy mute (flip up the mic), and volume control on the right ear cup. Plus they're sexy in all black, and are built better than the headband cracking HD555/595.


----------



## velvet396

Was able to find them for $200 from a shady retailer.  But yes, I generally know how to find deals, been going to slickdeals, CAG, and all that for the last 6 years.  But by all means, if you have a link to a better price, please share.
  
  But I guess we have differing ideas of value, I can't justify $100 for a mic when I know it's a $10-$20 part.  I'll find something I was just hoping for more help because I know I'm not the only one to have done this.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Unless you don't know how to find deals, the PC360 shouldn't cost you more than $180, which IMHO is totally worth it for the mic, easy mute (flip up the mic), and volume control on the right ear cup. Plus they're sexy in all black, and are built better than the headband cracking HD555/595.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can get them for $180 from Razor Dog Deals... at least that's where I know people got it from. I think there's an ebay listing (under another name), and it's the same seller. They're legit (authorized Senn dealer), and it's where I know all my AVS friends have been getting it from. I don't have the info on how to get it for that cheap on there, but when I bought them, I did get it from there with no problems. I know some peeps on here have the info, which someone may pm you.
   
  They're on backorder until March 23rd though.
   
  In any case, to me it's not just an attached mic you're getting. You're getting a GOOD built in mic, better build quality than the 555/595, integrated volume knob on the right ear cup, all in one package. Yes, it's not as CHEAP as the 555/595, but to those of us looking for a simple, practical, all in one solution that kicks ass for gaming, the PC360 is it.
   
  Would I spend $250? No. But for $180, I'd gladly take that hit anyday, considering most gaming headsets are crap.


----------



## kingpage

Different people have different willingness to pay, for some it's just not affordable to pay as much for a built in mic as the headphones themselves which is very understandable. As a non-gamer, I wouldn't even if I was into gaming.


----------



## sho0sh

For me, I couldn't justify spending that amount on an all in one headset as I use the headphones on the move as well sometimes and don't fancy looking like a complete TOOL walking around with a headset and mic listening to music on a train... when buying the separate headphones you can use them for more than indoor use.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Well, I have been buying headphones back and forth because I couldn't justify paying that much for pc360. Now I have it, I regret not doing so earlier.


----------



## Shad0w99

Why do I feel like I have such a difficult time deciding between the PC350 and PC360? How much of an "open" setup is PC360? Am I going to hear everything from outside or is there some isolation? As for the sound quality itself, anyone here owned both and would like to comment?
   
   
  Thank you


----------



## velvet396

biting the bullet and getting the PC360.  But waiting for someone on AVS forum (or here!) to PM me with how to get that price on RazorDogDeals.
   
  Yeah I take a $6 hit on shipping the HD555 back to Amazon, but I'm so over trying to find a mic solution and it *does* fit within my original budget goal.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Good thing you can get it. I hope you will be as happy as I am.
  Quote: 





velvet396 said:


> biting the bullet and getting the PC360.  But waiting for someone on AVS forum (or here!) to PM me with how to get that price on RazorDogDeals.
> 
> Yeah I take a $6 hit on shipping the HD555 back to Amazon, but I'm so over trying to find a mic solution and it *does* fit within my original budget goal.


----------



## dub Beatz

Stop being a wuss and go for it!


----------



## velvet396

does anyone know how to get the $180 price on the pc360?


----------



## chicolom

It used to be $180 from razordogdeals .com, last time I checked though he raised the price to $200 on them. 
   
  He either puts his listings up on ebay or you can use a code on his site.  I only see one ebay listing at the moment - so maybe just it from his site.


----------



## matryx

I'm about to get the Astro Mixamp but I'm not sure if I should get the wired or the new wireless 5.8 mixamp. I'm going to be gaming on my PS3 with a mic and I heard that it would be pointless to get the wireless mixamp because I will have to run the whiles anyways. I'm not sure how this work so if anyone can help me it would save me some money getting the wired one.


----------



## Shad0w99

I have decided to get the PC350 instead of PC360 mainly because I want some sort of isolation. I don't want noise canceling but I can't seem to get an idea of how "open" the PC360 would be. Can any of the owners shed some light on this? Do you have to take your headset off to hear people/noise outside or can you hear everything clearly? I wouldn't want complete isolation either. For example, if I were to play loud music via speakers, I would want to hear. Am I making the right choice?
   
  Thank you


----------



## tdockweiler

Has or does anyone use the HD-600 for gaming? I wonder how well it is for gaming. Sure, the HD-598 is great, but I don't mind giving up some of the soundstage for more detail and a more clear sound. My HD-650 is not good for gaming to me due to it's bass. Still fun to use, but the bass annoys me. Even for music. It's not too bass heavy for music, but I still dislike it's bass. It's bass ruins some songs.
   
  After I got my DT-880 32 ohm I've been liking the HD-650 a lot less, even more so when I compared it to my DJ100. Lazy me hasn't even tried my DT-880 for gaming yet. I just know that it was awful for movies. This was downstairs and connected to my receiver so that's probably why. I prefer my HD-598 for movies over my HD-650, DT-880 and AD700! I doubt the DT-880 will be any better to my ears than the HD-598 for gaming, but I'm guessing it's sound will be more clear and detailed. I'm not too worried that the soundstage is smaller.
   
  Might just sell my HD-650 and try an HD-600 instead. If I love the DT-880 for gaming then I won't bother with the HD-600.
   
  Basically my priorities for gaming are a super clear sound (better than HD-598) with lots of detail and then a large soundstage (doesn't need to be super huge). Very good mids come next. ATH-AD2000 would have been it if it wasn't for the drivers resting on my ears! I wish the HD-598's sound was as clear as the DT-880 or HD-650. I guess I can't have everything for $170.


----------



## canoners

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Has or does anyone use the HD-600 for gaming? I wonder how well it is for gaming. Sure, the HD-598 is great, but I don't mind giving up some of the soundstage for more detail and a more clear sound. My HD-650 is not good for gaming to me due to it's bass. Still fun to use, but the bass annoys me. Even for music. It's not too bass heavy for music, but I still dislike it's bass. It's bass ruins some songs.
> 
> After I got my DT-880 32 ohm I've been liking the HD-650 a lot less, even more so when I compared it to my DJ100. Lazy me hasn't even tried my DT-880 for gaming yet. I just know that it was awful for movies. This was downstairs and connected to my receiver so that's probably why. I prefer my HD-598 for movies over my HD-650, DT-880 and AD700! I doubt the DT-880 will be any better to my ears than the HD-598 for gaming, but I'm guessing it's sound will be more clear and detailed. I'm not too worried that the soundstage is smaller.
> 
> ...


 

 Shows how different we are, huh?
  I am really amazed by the HD650 for both music and gaming. I like the bass, although it could be a bit muddy and boomy sometimes.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

The recessed highs on the hd600 puts me off it.
  PC360 is great, have you tried it?
  
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Has or does anyone use the HD-600 for gaming? I wonder how well it is for gaming. Sure, the HD-598 is great, but I don't mind giving up some of the soundstage for more detail and a more clear sound. My HD-650 is not good for gaming to me due to it's bass. Still fun to use, but the bass annoys me. Even for music. It's not too bass heavy for music, but I still dislike it's bass. It's bass ruins some songs.
> 
> After I got my DT-880 32 ohm I've been liking the HD-650 a lot less, even more so when I compared it to my DJ100. Lazy me hasn't even tried my DT-880 for gaming yet. I just know that it was awful for movies. This was downstairs and connected to my receiver so that's probably why. I prefer my HD-598 for movies over my HD-650, DT-880 and AD700! I doubt the DT-880 will be any better to my ears than the HD-598 for gaming, but I'm guessing it's sound will be more clear and detailed. I'm not too worried that the soundstage is smaller.
> 
> ...


----------



## tdockweiler

I didn't find them too bad really. Somehow my HD-600 did seem to tame bright recordings more than my white screen HD-650 does, which is strange. One reason I think I'd prefer the HD-600 for gaming is it's reduced bass. I still remember the sound on my HD-600 being less clear and less detailed compared to my HD-650. I think I must have had the older HD-600 though.
   
  PC360 does sound interesting, but I'm mainly looking for an upgrade to my HD-598 which I love. My HD-650 is an upgrade to my HD-598 for music, but for me it's a step down for gaming in SOME areas. Mainly just soundstage and how the HD-598 seems to have more forward sounding mids. I always prefer that for games. Haven't compared the imaging in both yet. An HD-650-like headphone with the soundstage of the HD-598, but with reduced bass and those slightly forward mids would be the greatest gaming headphone ever made! The HD-598 just can't compare to the HD-650 when it comes to detail and how clear the sound is, but the HD-650 is like nearly twice as much. For $170 the HD-598 sure is good though.
   
  I don't know much about the PC360. Isn't like like a HD-595 with a mic? I always imagined the HD-595 also had rolled off highs like the HD-555. Not a fan of the HD-555 or modded HD-555 at all but I love the HD-598. I think it's even safe to say that I like the 598 more than the HD-650, but it doesn't sound better. Probably more fun to listen to but I haven't compared them side by side for a long time.
  
  Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> The recessed highs on the hd600 puts me off it.
> PC360 is great, have you tried it?


----------



## chemist323

Hey everyone, just pulled the trigger on a new set of Beyer dt990 32ohm for $239.20 ($20 cheaper than Amazon's lowest price) at soundearphones.com.  They have a 20%off promo with code: APRIL11 (excludes Shure, Sennheiser and Grados).


----------



## mcnoiserdc

My PC360 is really different from the hd595/555/600 I had. The pc360 has more treble than those. IT reminds me of sa5000.
  You should try it if you can. I find the hd555 to have rolled of highs while hd595 has ok highs. The pc 360 has high with the sparkle that makes reloading and so sound amazing, shattering of glass is awesome also, lol! IT reminds me of the dt990 but not piercy and not bassy. You know what it is like an improved dt990 for me.
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I didn't find them too bad really. Somehow my HD-600 did seem to tame bright recordings more than my white screen HD-650 does, which is strange. One reason I think I'd prefer the HD-600 for gaming is it's reduced bass. I still remember the sound on my HD-600 being less clear and less detailed compared to my HD-650. I think I must have had the older HD-600 though.
> 
> PC360 does sound interesting, but I'm mainly looking for an upgrade to my HD-598 which I love. My HD-650 is an upgrade to my HD-598 for music, but for me it's a step down for gaming in SOME areas. Mainly just soundstage and how the HD-598 seems to have more forward sounding mids. I always prefer that for games. Haven't compared the imaging in both yet. An HD-650-like headphone with the soundstage of the HD-598, but with reduced bass and those slightly forward mids would be the greatest gaming headphone ever made! The HD-598 just can't compare to the HD-650 when it comes to detail and how clear the sound is, but the HD-650 is like nearly twice as much. For $170 the HD-598 sure is good though.
> 
> I don't know much about the PC360. Isn't like like a HD-595 with a mic? I always imagined the HD-595 also had rolled off highs like the HD-555. Not a fan of the HD-555 or modded HD-555 at all but I love the HD-598. I think it's even safe to say that I like the 598 more than the HD-650, but it doesn't sound better. Probably more fun to listen to but I haven't compared them side by side for a long time.


 


  Edit: Fixed


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> My PC360 is really different from the hd595/555/600 I had. The 595 has more treble than those. IT reminds me of sa5000.
> You should try it if you can. I find the hd555 to have rolled of highs while hd595 has ok highs. The pc 360 has high with the sparkle that makes reloading and so sound amazing, shattering of glass is awesome also, lol! IT reminds me of the dt990 but not piercy and not bassy. You know what it is like an improved dt990 for me.


 

 So, are you saying the PC360 has more treble than HD595/555?  or vice a versa?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna bring up that if anyone here has the funds and hasn't bought anything yet, I would say that the Mixamp 5.8 + PC360 would be the most well rounded investment for headphone gaming, IMHO.

Want balanced sound for competitive gaming? Check.

Want to be immersed for single player gaming and movies? Click on the Mixamp's Bass Expander button, and the bass comes alive on the PC360 without it destroying SQ. Yes, the PC360 with the bass expander on will satisfy practically anyone of us who'd want just one headset that does all with ease. No clutter, no mess. Just the PC360 and Mixamp 5.8. =)

Been playing Mass Effect 2 lately, and the Bass Expander has it made it that much more enjoyable without sacrificing the soundstage or sound positioning. I'd leave the bass expander off when playing online, but the effect is more subtle than say a bass boost off a music amp like the Fiio E5 or E7's eq 2 or 3 which REALLY add some unmistakable amount of bass. I prefer the subtle boost of the 5.8.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

sorry, I have fixed it, Yes I meant pc360 has more treble than hd555/595/600. 
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> So, are you saying the PC360 has more treble than HD595/555?  or vice a versa?


----------



## vhearts

hey guys, i'm in the market for a mixamp + headset (or headphones + mic) setup and I've narrowed it down to this:

 Mixamp 5.8 +...
   
  ATH-AD700
  or
  ATH-A700
  or
  ATH-A700PRO?
  or
  Sennheiser HD555
   
  these would presumably be used alongside a clipon mic of some sort. I took a look at the PC350/PC360 but their price is really a bit crazy for me since I can get a clipon mic and the mixamp can control the mic volume. The ATH's can all be had for around $100, and the HD555 is $90.
   
  My usage would be something like 60% games, 20% movies 20% music... can someone tell me if I'm on the right track? I'm leaning towards the AD700.
   
  What I'm currently using is PS3 -> HDMI -> computer monitor that has an audio passthrough. The audio passthrough is routed through my macbook's linein and then I also run Skype to chat with my buddies while I play. So I plug my Ultimate Ears superfi 5vi into the audio out on the macbook and get the combination of both the PS3 sound and the skype sound. I hope to recreate this setup except with a mixamp thrown in there as well and a proper headphone/headset because my 5vi broke  what I am trying to do is possible with the mixamp 5.8, right?
   
  thanks in advance!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





vhearts said:


> hey guys, i'm in the market for a mixamp + headset (or headphones + mic) setup and I've narrowed it down to this:
> 
> Mixamp 5.8 +...
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  By audio pass through - do you mean optical?  Because thats what the mixamp needs.  Some displays pass the 5.1 DD signal correctly, some don't...
   
  If you got a wireless mixamp, I don't see why you would bother with trying to route stuff through your monitor.  Just plug the Tx base in next to the PS3 with a short optical cable then put the reciever wherever.
   
  The AD700 has the best soundstage, positioning, and detail of the headphones you listed, but it may note be as pleasing for movies and music because its seriously lacks bass and weight to the sound.  This can be an advantage in competitive games, but may detract from fun an immersion in single player games.  I prefer my PC360s for shooters and high action multiplayer (stuff with gunshots and explosions), but I still use AD700s for some single player games where thats not as important.


----------



## vhearts

thanks for the reply  Yes once I have the mixamp 5.8 I would not route anything through my monitor anymore. What my monitor can do is take an HDMI connection and pass the audio out through a 3.5mm connection. This is necessary because I need to mix the sound together with the skype using my macbook.

 Once I have the MixAmp I would presumably connect the ps3 -> optical -> mixamp and also macbook -> USB/3.5mm adaptor -> mixamp and run skype through that. Then I will have the same result, but done through the mixamp if my understanding is correct. As long as the result is Skype chat + PS3 game audio, I am happy 
   
  I see that you have a Turtle Beach DSS... how is that compared to the mixamp? Better/worse? I ask because I have a lot of bestbuy credit and the TurtleBeach would be a lot cheaper for me to buy than the Mixamp. I understand that it is not wireless.


----------



## chicolom

The DSS is messier wire wise, but sounds the same surround sound wise.
   
  Its a pain to rig up voice through it, but I guess your using skype for that so it would be fine.


----------



## chicolom

I've never heard the Tritton AX720s, but their available at best buy's as well - and you get a mixer and headset for pretty cheap.
   
*Edit*:  I've heard the Trittons aren't great for music


----------



## vhearts

As a nice surprise my GF bought me a PC360 so I guess that part of the equation is solved!  I also have a mixamp 5.8 shipping in now... can't wait!


----------



## lennyr

How is the Sennheiser PC 360 for big heads?  I have a giant noggin, and have a hard time with some headphones.


----------



## forsberg

tip for you guys on ps3-

instead of using dolby headphone, go into system sound settings and disable everything except for the 1st option (PCM?). The "surround sound" effect is already encoded in their stereo track (in COD games). You can EASILY hear front vs back effects, even better than my receiver which has dolby headphone.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





lennyr said:


> How is the Sennheiser PC 360 for big heads?  I have a giant noggin, and have a hard time with some headphones.


 


  Out of the box it clamps a fair bit.  You can leave them stretched out over something for few days to loosen them up.


----------



## rabidgamer

Anyone got any tips to know if you're listening at a safe volume w/ open headphones? I can hear people talking beside me etc when listening to music but just want to make extra sure it's okay, got a bit of tinnitus and don't want it getting worse lol.
   
  I use the Ear Force DSS + the AD700s and the volume knob ain't even a quarter of the way round... my mate put them on and said they were too quite but just wondering if you guys have any advice.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Bout half Wayish on the dss is okay


----------



## ryanjjg

Very informative thread! MLE i follow your advice and got ax720! now i want another headphone budget is $200 will use it on iphone (music) and also on gaming non fps type i dont have an amp and i cant buy right now since my budget is not that big. any suggestions are appreciated, by the way im not a audiophile im just casual listener and a gamer! Thanks and More power to this thread!


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





ryanjjg said:


> Very informative thread! MLE i follow your advice and got ax720! now i want another headphone budget is $200 will use it on iphone (music) and also on gaming non fps type i dont have an amp and i cant buy right now since my budget is not that big. any suggestions are appreciated, by the way im not a audiophile im just casual listener and a gamer! Thanks and More power to this thread!


 

 I too have the AX720. I actually just started using it for the decoder box, but the headset that comes with it really isn't that bad at all. It serves its purpose for gaming quite nicely.


----------



## TruBrew

Has anyone heard the FA-011 and compared them to the AD700's?


----------



## DoritosMan

I ordered the AD700's Monday and I was wondering what Amp would be the best to go with them
  I was thinking either the Astro Mixamp or the FiiO E7.
  Or should I focus on ordering a better sound card since I am using the integrated sound that is in my computer now.
   
  Link to my Motherboard:
http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3758#ov


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> Has anyone heard the FA-011 and compared them to the AD700's?


 

 I just googled those and FYI they look _extremely _similiar to the turtle beach HPX.


----------



## TruBrew

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I just googled those and FYI they look _extremely _similiar to the turtle beach HPX. The frame/housing, headband, grills, and pads all look identical to the HPX.  The drivers and wood part of the cups are the only differences I see.


 


  They do look strikingly similar. I doubt they are the same headphone rebranded, but who knows. Maybe Fischer really liked the design and decided to use it as the "base" for their own design. I woudn't trust turtle beach for quality is all I mean, and Fischer is a Russian Company I believe.
   
   
  Edit:
  To DoritosMan, I am a console gamer, so I don't know a lot about computer sound cards, but this would be my guess. If your soundcard has Dolby Heaphone, or some other Surround sound emulator built into it, than a dedicated amp like the FiiO would be better. It is obviously a superior amp. However, if your card doesn't have that feature, but it can output optical audio, than a Mixamp, which can decode the signal would be your choice. Being a console gamer and avid movie watcher I use the JVC/Victor SU-DH1, which is similar to the Mixamp, but with DTS also. The amp section is not as good, so I run it to a dedicated amp. It is a more expensive option.
   
  OK I just reread your post and looked at your motherboard. I would just stick with the onboard audio, run optical out to a mixamp. I have read it has more than enough power to run the AD700s, and should make for a rather simple solution.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





doritosman said:


> I ordered the AD700's Monday and I was wondering what Amp would be the best to go with them
> I was thinking either the Astro Mixamp or the FiiO E7.
> Or should I focus on ordering a better sound card since I am using the integrated sound that is in my computer now.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you paring the AD700s with your computer or a console?  The mixamp is geared towards consoles, so if your using them with your computer I think a soundcard with DH processing would be better.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





trubrew said:


> They do look strikingly similar. I doubt they are the same headphone rebranded, but who knows. Maybe Fischer really liked the design and decided to use it as the "base" for their own design. I woudn't trust turtle beach for quality is all I mean, and Fischer is a Russian Company I believe.


 

 The TB's have two drivers in each cup (total of 4) while the Fischers look like they have single driver per cup, so probably different.


----------



## DoritosMan

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Are you paring the AD700s with your computer or a console?  The mixamp is geared towards consoles, so if your using them with your computer I think a soundcard with DH processing would be better.


 

  
  I would be pairing the AD700's with my computer.
  I found this sound card:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001E25KDK
  I have heard good things about the X-Fi series, so is this one any good or should I look for something else?


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Turtle beach hp/a/x... do have 4 drivers in each cup.
  There are more headphones with the same design, but the FA and turtle beach only share the external design, nothing else.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The TB's have two drivers in each cup (total of 4) while the Fischers look like they have single driver per cup, so probably different.


----------



## Neceo

Ok got a question for you guys.  I have been looking through the forums for about a week now but would like to ask you you guys.
   
   
  So my wife goes to bed ealier then I do on the weekends, so I have time to myself at night.  The problem is I can't turn the volume up.  I am looking for a gaming/movies headset.  I have my eyes set right now on the Senn HD 558 but would like to know if anyone has any other advice.   I was planning to use the TB DSS or the astro mixamp, but (i also need to update my receiver) I think i might get a yamaha receiver and use the silent cinema. 
   
  This is for the ps3.
   
  I am looking to spend up to a max 250 ( but lower is better ).  Again gaming/movies and for gaming it will be mostly single player games. 
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you gonna be in the same room as her? Because open Sennheisers leak enough to be an issue if she's in the same room while you're playing.


----------



## Neceo

sorry should of stated that, I will be in a different room.     I do turn down the volume on my speakers and i'm "ok"  but it can be too quite at times and it would be nice to be able to turn it up ( but i got my wife and neighbors in the condo so I can't) hence the headphones. 
   
  I did post up on the avsforums , where I got the idea for using the yamaha with silent cinema , but not much help on the headphone area. 
   
  besides the HD558 any other options?  Or if you all think the hd558 is the best bet that is fine with me lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'll be fine then. I haven't personally heard the 558, but I can attest to the 598 being excellent, though since you're playing mostly single player games, you may want a little more bass for immersion.

I dunno about you guys, but I have a feeling the Fischer Audio FA-11 for $120 sounds absolutely perfect for gaming. We already the know design works well for DH gaming, leaving only the SQ itself to wonder about, and I heard they are excellent performers with strong but tight bass. I'm considering getting a pair myself.

Otherwise, for single player... not sure. You have a good budget, but all the headphones I would have recommended have gone up past that price.


----------



## Neceo

hmm those fa-011s sound intereseting and good reviews.  why are there so many choices!! it makes it hard to pick one lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Open headphones are more engaging with Dolby Headphone vs closed. I'd risk it on the FA-011. They might just be the answer to the $150 or less question that isn't AD700 or HD555/595.


----------



## Neceo

hhmm well the fa-11's are about the same price as the hd558s ( 135 on ebay with razordeals).    If only i could test them out first .. same with the AD700


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look, I LOVE the AD700s, but they just won't do for single player gaming. They have like a 1/10 on a scale when it comes to bass. You can hear it, but can't feel it.

The HD598 is also slightly bass shy, and they're known to be superior to the 558s. I own the PC360 which is bass neutral. They do have enough bass with the Mixamp 5.8's bass expander turned on.


----------



## chicolom

The one time I tried Silent Cinema, I wasn't all that impressed.  It was an improvement over stereo - but was no where near dolby headphone for me.  It was on a low end reciever and I don't know if you could tweak it to sound better.  Most people say you have to tweak it to get it sounding its best, but dolby headphone sounds great "out of the box" with everything.
   
  Even though you said you need a new reciever, If I were you I would still pick up one of the *Dolby Headphone* boxes for gaming.  Or at the very least A-B Silent Cinema and Dolby Headphone to see which you prefer. 
   
  --> If you *don't *need voice, I would get the *TB Ear Force DSS*.  It has a more powerful bass boost than the mixamp which will help in single player. 
  --> If you *do *need voice, get a *Mixamp 5.8*.  Waaayyy more convient for using voice.  You need to buy the optional PS3 chat cable from Astro to use voice with the PS3.
   
  Also consider your setup and wether your able to run usb and toslink wires to where the box would be, etc.


----------



## chicolom

Just know that if you get those FA-011's you will look like my avatar pic!    <-----
   
  And Shin, whats up with not being able to reset your password and re-log-in to AVS?


----------



## Neceo

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Just know that if you get those FA-011's you will look like my avatar pic!    <-----
> 
> And Shin, whats up with not being able to reset your password and re-log-in to AVS?


 

 HAHAH well i hope i am as happy but don't look as stupid =p


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Just know that if you get those FA-011's you will look like my avatar pic!    <-----
> 
> And Shin, whats up with not being able to reset your password and re-log-in to AVS?




Admins said there's nothing wrong with my account. I've used that account for years, with the same password, and yet they don't think its been changed. Hell, I know it has because the same thing happened here just a few weeks ago. Either my now defunct computer got hacked/virus, or my vindictive ex wanted to hurt me where she knows it would hurt, lol.

I created a new account (Mad Lust Envy), and they banned it ASAP. I freaking told them I couldn't log in. Tards. At least Head-fi admins/mods fixed my problem in less than 24 hours...

I miss AVS.


----------



## chicolom

Why can't you do the automated email password reset tool?  Is your email address messed up too?


----------



## Neceo

yea i was posting on that thread as I stated. Really appreciate that and this thread, and it's weird stuff where you can't log on.  Signs point to your ex changing the account


----------



## obazavil

and that's why... gentlemen... your couples must NOT know your passwords.
   
  Cool to see you around again MLE, I was wondering what happened to you.


----------



## bryqqer

Hi all, new user here. Thanks for the excellent gaming headphone guides, Mad Lust Envy! They've been very helpful. I game on PS3 with a wired mixamp. I have the AD700 for competitive FPS but I'm stuck on what to get for a fun, immersive headphone... something that lets you feel the sound. My budget is $150 and I have no other amp besides the mixamp. I've narrowed it to these:
   
  Ultrasone HFI-580 - My #1 pick based on the reviews, but seems largely unproven in gaming and with the mixamp. Will the S-Logic clash with Dolby Headphone?
  ATH-M50 - Consensus seems to be avoid for gaming/Dolby Headphone?
  Creative Aurvana Live! - The only phone in this list proven to work well with the mixamp?
  Denon 1001 - Don't know much about these... same driver as CAL but more expensive I think. Worth it?
   
  Any other sub-$150 phones I should be considering as well? Thanks in advance!


----------



## BournePerfect

Dolby Headphone works EXTREMELY well with S-Logic from every report I've read. I don't know much about the 580's sonic traits though. I'll throw in another option for a 'fun' and very well rounded headphone: the DT 770. I'm not sure which version I heard, but it was 80 ohm, and was more 'fun' than the DT880, DT990s that I heard. I'd say it was on par with the D2000, but was much more balanced than that 'phone as well. My .02
   
  -Daniel


----------



## dub Beatz

I second the DT770.
  
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Dolby Headphone works EXTREMELY well with S-Logic from every report I've read. I don't know much about the 580's sonic traits though. I'll throw in another option for a 'fun' and very well rounded headphone: the DT 770. I'm not sure which version I heard, but it was 80 ohm, and was more 'fun' than the DT880, DT990s that I heard. I'd say it was on par with the D2000, but was much more balanced than that 'phone as well. My .02
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## dadab12

I ordered the Ultrasone pro 900 with a focusrite Saffire pro 24 DSP as a dac/amp. I intend to buy the mixamp 5.8 for DH 2morrow.
  I have a question though, the pro 24 dsp will be connected to the computer via firewire and to the xbox 360 via optical
   pro 24 dsp is a pro audio interface and is powered by drivers, Would I be able to adjust the EQ, Crossfade , gain that are available in the drivers  on pc to effect the sound I hear through the xbox 360?
  or only the pc is effected?
  Thank you.


----------



## BournePerfect

Where did you order the Pro 900 from?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## bryqqer

Thanks guys. I didn't realize the DT770 Pro 80 was within my price range. Looks like we might have a winner.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Keep in mind that the DT770 Pro 80 can be quite boomy and trample on the details at times. As far as immersion goes, its one of the best I have tried. The bass can be intoxicating. Like being at a theater.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





bryqqer said:


> Thanks guys. I didn't realize the DT770 Pro 80 was within my price range. Looks like we might have a winner.


 
  I bought the DT 770 80-Ohm used last week off eBay, there nice and you have to a fan of bass to like them.
  My $60 Muse headphone tube amp. helps the sound.


----------



## dadab12

I ordered it from Lookat.com, excellent support throughout.
  I should be getting them on sunday, if you are feeling uncertain about their reliability, don't worry i'm gonna do review and write my impressions that i'm sure are good...
  they have great prices btw.
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Where did you order the Pro 900 from?
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## calpis

About using Silent Cinema with headphones, it's alright I guess. I used it for a few months and did okay with Ultrasone HFi-2200's. I've also tried Sony's VST which wasn't bad either. I picked up a Harman Kardon receiver with DH and dang.... it kinda blew me away. Soundstage just opened up even more. If I had to rate it, it'd be DH > SC > VST.

I still need to try the AD700 vs HFi2200 to see if I'm missing out on anything.


----------



## TruBrew

Quote: 





calpis said:


> About using Silent Cinema with headphones, it's alright I guess. I used it for a few months and did okay with Ultrasone HFi-2200's. I've also tried Sony's VST which wasn't bad either. I picked up a Harman Kardon receiver with DH and dang.... it kinda blew me away. Soundstage just opened up even more. If I had to rate it, it'd be DH > SC > VST.
> 
> I still need to try the AD700 vs HFi2200 to see if I'm missing out on anything.


 

 I will second Silent Cinema not working well. I used to use it all the time. The sad thing was I never even realized it was supposed to be emulating surround sound. I feel like that says it all. I was mostly using a poor set of cans at the time, but even so. The Dolby Surround works infinitely better. My Victor SU-DH1 has been working like a champ. I will likely be selling it next month, but not do to any flaws in its performance. I have not tried the Mixamp or DSS, but I assume both work equally well for gaming.
   
  Edit: I am also very interested in trying the AD700's. I think I have convinced a friend to buy a pair. Another one of my friends already owes some DT770pro. I am looking forward to getting them all in one place. Too bad I sold my DT880/600, I hear those are also good for gaming (I sold it before I bought the DH).


----------



## BournePerfect

Were you guys using Silent Cinema for games or movies? I've heard that it is amazing for movies, but not so much with games. I haven't heard SC personally though.
   
  -Daniel

  
  Quote: 





trubrew said:


> I will second Silent Cinema not working well. I used to use it all the time. The sad thing was I never even realized it was supposed to be emulating surround sound. I feel like that says it all. I was mostly using a poor set of cans at the time, but even so. The Dolby Surround works infinitely better. My Victor SU-DH1 has been working like a champ. I will likely be selling it next month, but not do to any flaws in its performance. I have not tried the Mixamp or DSS, but I assume both work equally well for gaming.
> 
> Edit: I am also very interested in trying the AD700's. I think I have convinced a friend to buy a pair. Another one of my friends already owes some DT770pro. I am looking forward to getting them all in one place. Too bad I sold my DT880/600, I hear those are also good for gaming (I sold it before I bought the DH).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just watched Tangled with the Mixamp 5.8 and my D7000. I felt like I was at the movies. Simply sublime. No extra amping needed. 

One thing I will still bring up, movies don't give me any real positioning cue like games. It sounds immersive. Not that I cared. I was in aural heaven. Still better than plain stereo.

Also, just ordered the Hifiman HE-4. Will be trying them for gaming just cuz I'm curious, though I'll have to move my Lyr to the living room just to help the Mixamp power them, lol.


----------



## Neceo

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Were you guys using Silent Cinema for games or movies? I've heard that it is amazing for movies, but not so much with games. I haven't heard SC personally though.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Darn it , now i don't know what to do,  get the receiver or get mixamp or dss   lol


----------



## dub Beatz

Since I'm your best friend and all... If you don't like the HE-4 can I has them pleaseeeeeeee......
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just watched Tangled with the Mixamp 5.8 and my D7000. I felt like I was at the movies. Simply sublime. No extra amping needed.
> 
> One thing I will still bring up, movies don't give me any real positioning cue like games. It sounds immersive. Not that I cared. I was in aural heaven. Still better than plain stereo.
> 
> Also, just ordered the Hifiman HE-4. Will be trying them for gaming just cuz I'm curious, though I'll have to move my Lyr to the living room just to help the Mixamp power them, lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just realized why I haven't been able to get good positional cue from movies. I assumed that Blu-Rays on the PS3 would be down converted to Dolby Digital to play through toslink cables. It sounds like I was wrong. I'm currently watching a movie with Dolby Digital (regular DVD), and I'm getting a more immersive sound (though not as clear).

So many Blurays use DTS-HD which doesn't down convert to DD. Perhaps just linear PCM which is why I'm not getting the enveloping DD sound.

Ah well, after all is said and done, DH does work for movies, better than I previously thought.


----------



## Centigonal

Deepest apologies if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread (it's 61 pages! I can't read all that in one night!), but have you tried the Mixamp with the JVC HA-RX900s (or 700s)?
  People say that those are good for gaming, and cost only around $60 ($30 or the 700). 
  I'm asking because I own a HA-RX900 and I'm considering some sort of virtual surround thingamawhatsit, be it the Mixamp or something similar.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





centigonal said:


> Deepest apologies if this has been answered elsewhere in the thread (it's 61 pages! I can't read all that in one night!), but have you tried the Mixamp with the JVC HA-RX900s (or 700s)?
> People say that those are good for gaming, and cost only around $60 ($30 or the 700).
> I'm asking because I own a HA-RX900 and I'm considering some sort of virtual surround thingamawhatsit, be it the Mixamp or something similar.


 


  I used to have the RX900's and I tried using them with the mixamp.  This was a long time ago, so my memory is very foggy, but I remember them not being ok but no great.  Not as good as some other combos I've tried.  Some people seem to enjoy them though.  
   
  If you already have a pair, it wouldn't hurt to try them out.  You could listen to some "dolby headphone" samples on youtube or binaural clips and see how they do.


----------



## Ra97oR

Now using the W5000, I can say they are one of the best closed back headphone for gaming. The positioning is supreme and very precise all round, not just the sides. Granted, it is not as fun as some more bassy phone but are pretty good for spotting footsteps through walls.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I guess it would depend on what you're looking for. If you're mainly into movie watching and need a receiver, get that. Keep in mind a lot of Harmon Kardan receivers use DH, so that could be a great option/value for both games and movies. If this is strictly for games, get the cheap DSS and call it a day-it will work better than SH and save you $$ if you don't need a receiver. Plus, the DH still works great for movies, and is probably only marginally inferior the SH, if at all based on my reading.
   
  -Daniel

  
  Quote: 





neceo said:


> Darn it , now i don't know what to do,  get the receiver or get mixamp or dss   lol


----------



## BournePerfect

Hey Shin
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





:
   
       Of course DTS-HD/MA won't convert to DD-they are different competing formats! DTS-HD will almost ALWAYS downconvert to regular DTS 5.1/6.1, even on the PS3. So you would be out of luck with the DH devices as far as getting a 5.1 signal from DTS-HD. Maybe you should look into the SUDH-1 which will do DTS as well as DD.
   
  -Daniel
   
  PS: Someday I'll learn how to multi-quote. Not today.

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I just realized why I haven't been able to get good positional cue from movies. I assumed that Blu-Rays on the PS3 would be down converted to Dolby Digital to play through toslink cables. It sounds like I was wrong. I'm currently watching a movie with Dolby Digital (regular DVD), and I'm getting a more immersive sound (though not as clear).
> 
> So many Blurays use DTS-HD which doesn't down convert to DD. Perhaps just linear PCM which is why I'm not getting the enveloping DD sound.
> 
> Ah well, after all is said and done, DH does work for movies, better than I previously thought.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Hey Shin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


   
  Lol, I knew that. What I meant is that I thought ALL movies had an internal DD codec for some reason. Like a hidden one. Ah well... Stupid people and not having some form of default standard that isn't stereo.


----------



## matryx

The FiiO E7/E9 combo is for sale at MP4nation for $162. I just picked up one since it was too good of a deal to pass up.
   
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2827697


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I'm sure 99% of _dvd_s have a DD codec, at least the Hollywood ones. Foreign films are very hit and miss in a lot of area however (audio, subtitles, letterboxing etc). I honestly haven't bothered to look at my blu-ray/hddvd audio codecs too hard because I am without surround sound for the first time in my life, unless you count my little DSS which I only use for games. I'm currently saving for a Yamaha YSP 5100 for movies...once my dream 2.1 Magnepan setup is complete in the not so immediate future lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## chinesekiwi

Tbh, after experimenting, I feel the DT880's are so good imaging wise that it makes Dolby Headphone redundant for gaming. That and a lot of games these days have their own surround sound DSP coding in their game. I prefer the DT880 without Dolby headphone. I play much better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the opposite. Every headphone I have used (including the DT880) fail horribly in giving me the sense of full 360 space the way DH does. Stereo is more width than anything. Like everything is in a line, as opposed to all around me. Its not even a competition at this point. I wouldn't play a game in stereo unless it was the only option. No headphone gives a real sense of rear audio cues. None I have used.


----------



## maverickronin

He's not talking about plain stereo though.  He's talking about game that have DH-like algorithms built-in to their own sound engine.
   
  At least that's what I think he meant.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got that too. Black Ops, Bad Company 2 and some other games have a headphone surround mode that still don't come close to DH to me. Yes, I try those just to see how they compare. Not much can compete with a DSP that places sound all around you. DH is an addiction, and I haven't heard anything that matches it.

I'm quite anal about my surround positional cues. If anything is better than DH, I haven't heard it yet.


----------



## maverickronin

Well there's always legitimate room for disagreement in this area.  The performance of any such algorithm will be linked to how well its HRTF matches your own.  In a mass marketed algorithm that allows for no customization its not surprising that it works better for some people than for others.
   
  Many people tend not to understand that this is caused by physical differences in the shape of a person's ears, head, and torso and just assume that everyone who prefers a different algorithm is crazy or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well I never said that he's crazy or anything. I specifically stated that to ME, nothing compares to DH. I know there are plenty who agree and who disagree. 

Just as some prefer Silent Cinema, CMSS, and other surround DSPs, or just plain stereo.

Just that to me, regular stereo only excels at extreme left and right cues, with very little to discern front/back and overall depth.

People say that DSPs asound artificial, but they don't seem to realize that stereo is just as artificial. We don't hear sounds with just one ear, which a lot of positional cues in stereo mode do unless the sound is more centralized.

Anyways. Still think people should give DH the chance to prove itself, as I know some people who try it once and don't like it because its so different from what they grew accustomed to.

All I know is that going back to stereo is like putting on blinders for me.


----------



## maverickronin

I wasn't saying either of you were.  I was just referring to the fact that I've seen lots of other people act that way.  I'm on your side here.
   
  The first half of this thread is full of the people I am talking about.  First they say that DH sucks (most likely because it doesn't match their own HRTF), which is followed by you politely telling them that this thread is specifically for people who DH does work for, followed by them calling the whole point of the thread invalid and stupid because if it doesn't work for them it can't possibly work for anyone else.
   
  Those are the people who I was saying call other people crazy.  Not you or CK


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. I recently got pm'd by someone thanking me for this thread and saying that he was gonna get the K701 with a clip on to hook up to his Onkyo receiver. I had to remind him that the Onkyo probably didn't have DH, and that I couldn't guarantee the same performance without it.

I mean I put it right there in the title and on the first page. It really is RIDICULOUSLY different when using DH on and off. A headphone I recommend might be terrible without DH. I wish people understood this.


----------



## Centigonal

Maybe a big bolded text label at the op of the post would help?
   
  ...Although I can't see how anyone could miss all your talk about the Astro mixamp.


----------



## Shad0w99

For purely gaming and gaming related sounds ( footsteps etc ) , between the two closed cans - ATH A700 and PC350, which one would you recommend? Any other closed cans?
   
   
  Thank you


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Any1 knows anything about this newly released product (April 7th) http://www.psykoaudio.com/index.php/Krypt.html - I know 5.1 sets aren't exactly the most liked around here but this product looks somewhat more promissing and it's just been released and I kind of like the features such as openable cup at the back to let background noise in (or possibly change sound a bit as well like with open-back headphones?) and no software or drivers needed, just plug n play and it comes with an amp with adjustable bass level and led indicators for which channels the sounds are coming from and the mic is removable.
   
  More read about their PsykoWave technology (surround implementation) http://www.psykoaudio.com/index.php/PsykoWave-Technology.html
   
  Video


----------



## spydur

It's a complete POS. google some reviews and see for yourself..


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





spydur said:


> It's a complete POS. google some reviews and see for yourself..


 

 That's the old Psyko 5.1 set, this Krypton was released a couple of days ago so I doubt I'll find lots of reviews.  This is an improved set of the original based on the feedback they've received, it states changes in sound quality so it probably uses different drivers.


----------



## Neceo

i'm interested in the new one.  If they fixed the problems they had in the old one ( that i read about never tried ) . it might be something worth looking into.


----------



## dub Beatz

I agree. The original concept seemed great. I'm glad they revamped the product, and I think if they did it correctly they could have a winner. It all depends on how much they literally made changes based on reviews. Some companies will claim, "We listened to you guys and made changes." But you find out it's the same crap different housing. They needed to change quite a few things, and I'm hoping they were able to do so while remaining in budget.


----------



## Headfonenut123

I'm confused I thought that the psyko carbon was the new model and there are a few reviews for that, seems they have released 2 models at the same time though, the carbon and the other one mentioned on here, would be interested to know the differences other than the colour changes.

Psyko are also making a console version due out at the end of the year so will be interesting to see how that turns out


----------



## dadab12

I have Ultrasone pro 900 and I'm about to buy the Mixamp, Can I plug the headphones to my DAC along with the Mixamp? is it a good combination? My soundcard is focusrite saffire pro 24DSP Thank you!


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I have Ultrasone pro 900 and I'm about to buy the Mixamp, Can I plug the headphones to my DAC along with the Mixamp? is it a good combination? My soundcard is focusrite saffire pro 24DSP Thank you!


 

 IIRC, the Mixamp doesn't have an analog input. Even if it did, you'd be bypassing the DH mode which is the whole point of the product! And if it does have an analog input, you'd only be utilizing it's amp function (and chat possibly), but you'd be much better off buying a standalone amp (Fiio E9) for the same price which is exponentially better as an amp than the Mixamp. My .02
   
  -Daniel


----------



## dadab12

The Saffire has an optical in. but it's not helping right?
  what do I need to get the Mixamp going for games and movies and expect the best quality? I'm buying the Mixamp mainly for games and perhaps movies so The only functionality I need is 7.1 DH and I can't get that with the FiiO E9 and I think my Saffire is a better soundcard than the FiiO so it's not really an option


----------



## mcnoiserdc

hey guys I just spotted the Fischer audio Phoneix headset, at fischer audio russian website. It is identical to Razer carcharias which I own. It looks promissing as FA headphones are very well tuned... It costs around 65 Dollars...


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> The Saffire has an optical in. but it's not helping right?
> what do I need to get the Mixamp going for games and movies and expect the best quality? I'm buying the Mixamp mainly for games and perhaps movies so The only functionality I need is 7.1 DH and I can't get that with the FiiO E9 and I think my Saffire is a better soundcard than the FiiO so it's not really an option


 

 The FiiO isn't a soundcard. It's a portable Amp. Two different purposes. It would be incredibly redundant to hook your mixamp up to a soundcard, in fact that would be downright ridiculous. I'm not trying to be mean, but do you understand the difference between a DAC and an amp? A DAC is a digital to analog converter, and an amp just gives more power to the signal increasing dynamic range, sound quality and overall making it louder. The soundcard is a DAC, and so is a mixamp essentially. The Mixamp is a DAC / amp combo type of situation. Therefore hooking it up to another DAC would be pointless, because the audio is already converted. Plus you would be losing the Dolby Headphone processing. The FiiO is an amp, powering the headphones better so you can get their full potential while still utilizing the chat function. Without it, you would most likely have to lower the chat volume to drive the headphones properly. If you have the FiiO E9, you can balance chat and game volume perfectly, due to the extra juice provided.


----------



## dadab12

Heh, My bad I thought the Mixamp was an amp. Misunderstood it completely. You can be harsh I don't mind. 
  The saffire has a built in amp so I thought... oh well, So my options are to buy a separated amp? I was about to buy the uHA-u120 or a120.. havn't decided yet. 
  I heard the uHA-U/A100 are awesome with the pro 900


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Heh, My bad I thought the Mixamp was an amp. Misunderstood it completely. You can be harsh I don't mind.
> The saffire has a built in amp so I thought... oh well, So my options are to buy a separated amp? I was about to buy the uHA-u120 or a120.. havn't decided yet.
> I heard the uHA-U/A100 are awesome with the pro 900


 


  The Mixamp is an amp too. It's a DAC / Amp combo, kind of like the FiiO E7. I don't doubt your Saffire has a built in amp, my Forte has a built in amp too. It's just the DAC that causes the problem unfortunately, not the amp. To be honest, I don't entirely know if the Pro 900s are even that difficult to drive. I used to drive my DJ-1 Pros out of an ipod. You might be ok with just the Mixamp, honestly. Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of too many Ultrasones that are difficult to drive.


----------



## dadab12

they are not difficult to drive, but I'm about to buy a Sennheiser HD650 aswell. my next purchases is as follows- uHA-U120/A120- Mixamp- and an open back headphones to close the group


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> hey guys I just spotted the Fischer audio Phoneix headset, at fischer audio russian website. It is identical to Razer carcharias which I own. It looks promissing as FA headphones are very well tuned... It costs around 65 Dollars...


 


  How do you like the Razer Carcharias and how would you compare them to other headphones you've tried for gaming (Senn HD5xx, PC360, etc.) ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is easy to drive. For gaming, the Mixamp is all you need. My boy owns it and doesn't need his E9 to drive them for gaming.

The Mixamp can handle some pretty hard to drive cans like the K701 just fine. Not ideal for MUSIC, but you won't be able to tell for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double post.

Anyways in terms of the Mixamp's ability to drive headphones, it can even get away with driving 600ohm Beyers, though it MAY clip during intense passages. The Pro 900 should have no issues.


----------



## chicolom

Better play it safe and get the Beyerdynamic Headzone amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That image gets me every time. XD

My D7000's right driver is blown! 

Got home a few hours ago and decided to play the Black Ops campaign with the D7000s. The right driver had static noise during certa frequencies especially bass. My heart stopped. 

I hope to god Denon doesn't screw me. Sigh...


----------



## canoners

mad lust envy said:


> That image gets me every time. XD
> 
> My D7000's right driver is blown!
> 
> ...




Don't worry, you got a HE-4 coming really soon 

jk, can't you ask Denon?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but its 2:30am. I gotta wait until they open. 

I'm an impatient person. I wanna know if its gonna be repaired without issues, or if I have to pay.... urgh.

I don't like ever have issues like this. The A40s was the first. I was so pissed I ended up tossing them instead of seeing if they could be fixed. The Marchmallows...well, they took a beating, I admit. I'm not ever careful with IEMs, which is why I stick to budget ones.


----------



## chicolom

If you feel like tossing the D7000's, please toss them _my way_





   
  Do they have warranty still?  I'm sure Denon will take care of it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering I got them New Years... they better. @_@


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> If you feel like tossing the D7000's, please toss them _my way_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Screw you man, MLE is my best friend! Haha, just kidding. But seriously, I WANT THEM!


----------



## dennis_lcfx

I've read some reviews on amazon saying that the PC 360 is only at its max potential when using an amp or a dedicated sound card. I am interested in getting this headset to be used on my laptop but I am worried that it'll be underpowered. I game mainly on the PC so the Mixamp is not an option for me. Suggestions?
   
  Edit: The FiiO E7 looks nice  I've always preferred USB sound cards over integrated on-board and I can't be bothered to buy dedicated ones.
  Edit2: I play mostly FPS games like CS, COD4, TF2. Other than FPS games (which I play competitively), I really don't care about positional audio.


----------



## maverickronin

It will be probably worthless without some kind of positional audio algorithm. If your game doesn't have one you'll need to use something like the mixamp. It takes optical in so all you need is an optical out for your laptop.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Razer carcharias is not as good as the sennheisers, but considering the price I think it is a great value. I compared it to my pc 360 and it is a bit bassier and the mids are not as good as on the pc360. I could hear footsteps in gears of war from farther distancies, I belive that was due to the more bass it has. It is also closed compared to the open style of pc360 which I prefer. IT was a huge surprise for me, I didn't expect it to be that good.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> How do you like the Razer Carcharias and how would you compare them to other headphones you've tried for gaming (Senn HD5xx, PC360, etc.) ?


----------



## Meh

Hey guys, I'm going to be moving into a small apartment soon and I'm going need to be able to use 2 sets of headphones at the same time, my HD-555s and Shure SRH-840s.  Do any of you know if there is a system out there that allows this?  From my own research the Astro 5.8 MixAmp allows this but I would prefer a wired solution as I don't want to have to charge the batteries all the time.  Also I stress I would need to have both powered at the same time because the wife will want to watch TV/play games with me.


----------



## outlaw

Was gonna buy these for fps gaming ,what u guys think? Also whatever i decide on will be hooked directly to my HT omega striker and i would like to keep the price in the 150.00 range.Thanks !

  http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRASONE-PRO-550-PRO550-PROFESSIONAL-STUDIO-HEADPHONES-/310311410473?pt=DJ_Gear_Lighting&hash=item4840005b29


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





meh said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to be moving into a small apartment soon and I'm going need to be able to use 2 sets of headphones at the same time, my HD-555s and Shure SRH-840s.  Do any of you know if there is a system out there that allows this?  From my own research the Astro 5.8 MixAmp allows this but I would prefer a wired solution as I don't want to have to charge the batteries all the time.  Also I stress I would need to have both powered at the same time because the wife will want to watch TV/play games with me.


 

  
_Did you see my post in your other thread about this?  It should answer your question:_
   
   
  The AX720 has two ports - one is for headphone out and one is for microphone in.  So you can't power 2 headphones at the same time that way, but you can get an adapter I talk about below...
   
  Are you going to need for you and your wife both to be able to voice chat?  Or just using headphones without voice chat. 
   
  If you both are going to be using headsets (with mics and voice functionality) The mixamp is the only that will support two head_*sets*_ working from one amp by either:
   
        1)  using the "powered splitter" accessory, or
        2)  buying an additional RX receiver to pair with the Tx amp - probably quite costly in Canada
   
  but all the amps will support two head*phones* with just a standard splitter. 
Here's a nifty splitter that has separate volume controls
   
  In fact, if you don't play online and don't need voice at all, the DSS (which is the cheapest of the three) does a fine job IMO.  I own both the Mixamp 5.8 and DSS.
   
  As for the mixamp using batteries, if you plug in a usb cable it gets power that way and doesn't need batteries.


----------



## Meh

Sorry I didn't see the other post you made since I haven't checked that thread since it wasn't as active as this one.  Anyways voicechat isn't something that's needed by either of us actually.  If I used a splitted would that be enough to power both at the same time though?  I found an authorized reseller here in Canada but it's still substantially more expensive than the AX720 option.  I guess my other question is, if I got the Astro MixAmp (non-wireless), could I use the powered splitter with it to power both headphones?  Would there actually be enough power in it to power both?  Thanks again.


----------



## Meh

Also, would any normal splitter be enough or would the 2 of them together on one unit require the powered splitter?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





meh said:


> Also, would any normal splitter be enough or would the 2 of them together on one unit require the powered splitter?


 


  I think a normal splitter would be enough.  The main purpose of the powered splitter is to work with two head_*sets*_. 
   
  How much is the DSS in Canada?  It should be cheaper than the AX720.
   
  You're aware that the _wireless _mixamp does *not* need batteries if you plug in USB right?  Same as the wired mixamp.


----------



## Meh

Actually, would the Earforce with the Astro Powered Splitter work?  The problem with all these amps is that I can't find any sort of specs on them.  =\


----------



## Meh

I'd actually buy the Earforce off Amazon in the US because of the exchange rate right now and save $20.  If the powered splitter is not required, that's even better really.


----------



## dadab12

I think that the Ultrasone Pro 900 are amazing, I can hear everyone. I just knife people around cause I hear every footstep of them in the map. that' not even in search and destroy on modern warfare it's on free for all, and that's without the Mixamp, I don't wanna know what's gonna happen when I get the Mixamp, Honestly.


----------



## TruBrew

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I think that the Ultrasone Pro 900 are amazing, I can hear everyone. I just knife people around cause I hear every footstep of them in the map. that' not even in search and destroy on modern warfare it's on free for all, and that's without the Mixamp, I don't wanna know what's gonna happen when I get the Mixamp, Honestly.


 


  You don't find the Pro 900 to bassy for FPS style games? I haven't tried them, but am just wondering. I don't love my HE-6 or LCD-2 when it comes to gaming. Sound is awesome, but the surround placement just does not work perfectly with DH. I was about to buy a pair of AD700 dedicated for gaming, but luckily had not yet. It is bad enough that I just bought a Victor/JVC SU-DH1 last month, since now I am already planning to sell it.
   
  I am buying a Smyth Realiser for movies, and also gaming. I would say my decision was more based on movie watching, but I am very excited to see how well it works for video games. It should be epic. I get it in on Monday, and may be able to give some early impressions (not sure what my work schedule for next weeks is yet), but wont have it fully calibrated until sometime next month. I am thinking it may be the next greatest thing in gaming. I bought the SU-DH1 for the same reason as the Realiser, movies. It is a real disappointment that the Mixamp or DSS does not decode DTS. How much more could it really cost them for the licensing.  Anyway, when I have everything set up I will let everyone know how it is.


----------



## dadab12

No, It's not too bassy, just like it's not too bassy as a music headphone. The bass doesn't overpower nothing it's just there.
  I can follow people all around the map, I know exactly where they are even where there is alot of explosions, helicopters and what not. 
  and that's on stereo... I can hear when people are over me, horizontal, downwards, diagonal whatever. it's there. and it's obvious, no guessing game
  Quote: 





trubrew said:


> You don't find the Pro 900 to bassy for FPS style games? I haven't tried them, but am just wondering. I don't love my HE-6 or LCD-2 when it comes to gaming. Sound is awesome, but the surround placement just does not work perfectly with DH. I was about to buy a pair of AD700 dedicated for gaming, but luckily had not yet. It is bad enough that I just bought a Victor/JVC SU-DH1 last month, since now I am already planning to sell it.
> 
> I am buying a Smyth Realiser for movies, and also gaming. I would say my decision was more based on movie watching, but I am very excited to see how well it works for video games. It should be epic. I get it in on Monday, and may be able to give some early impressions (not sure what my work schedule for next weeks is yet), but wont have it fully calibrated until sometime next month. I am thinking it may be the next greatest thing in gaming. I bought the SU-DH1 for the same reason as the Realiser, movies. It is a real disappointment that the Mixamp or DSS does not decode DTS. How much more could it really cost them for the licensing.  Anyway, when I have everything set up I will let everyone know how it is.


----------



## dub Beatz

To be entirely honest, I don't find bassy cans to be poor performers for gaming. Yeah, with large explosions and such you won't hear the other frequencies as easily. Think about it though, if there's that much noise going on anyway, you're not going to hear the subtle footsteps in the first place. And there's many games where it really doesn't matter, like BFBC2 for example. That game isn't for sound whores, its for those who wanna feel like they're in the game. Also, I never found the bass on my DT770/80s to be too overpowering. Even during chopper fly byes, bombing runs and loud explosions, the level of audibility in the mid range (footsteps) was on par to an almost exact level when compared with my AD700s. Basically I'm saying there's no point in getting the AD700s for me when a more fun pair of headphones with almost equal positioning capabilities produces the same results. And when it comes to single player, don't even get me started. Dead space literally caused me to change my underwear thrice. Just kidding, but seriously it was scary as hell.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DT770 Pro 80 is the most impressive price/performance-wise. Bass is fantastic, positional cues are the best, and treble is crisp. Sure, the mids are a gaping void, but blame that on the theater like bass. One of my fave sub $200 cans, period. Only gave them up because of my stupid need to buy new things. I loved them. In fact, they are like the D7000, without the mids, but better positional cues. So anyone who loves their DT770 Pro 80s would love the D7000 as the truest upgrade to them.


----------



## dadab12

I'm Interested in buying the HD800 since I can get them in an extremely good price * can't publish it though not fair for those who bought it for full MSRP) I wonder how it deals with positional cues...


----------



## TruBrew

I have heard the HD-800 does not work super well with DH. The reason is because of how open the soundstage is, that it distorts placement some. I have never heard them so that is not from personal experience. I was wondering why my HE-6 did not do a better job, and someone here gave what I felt to be a good explanation. I can not remember who, so if you read this, feel free to take credit, or PM me and I will edit the post to add your name. Anyway, what they said was that a headphone with a naturally flat soudstage works best with DH. Lets compare it to a movie. Lets say you have a projector (DH), and a projector screen (headphones). you want to project the image on a flat surface, so the projector can do the work of interpreting depth, you don't want to add coloration on top of coloration, it just causes more distortion. That may be a bad analogy, and was not used by the OP. You do have to think about it though. DH, does not take into account the characteristics of individual headphones and instead is designed for a "generic" headphone, which is obviously going to be more closed in and flat soundstage wise than say the HD-800.
   
  You may be very happy with the HD-800 for music, or games where perfect placement is not necessary, and if it really is that good of a price it may be worth it. I would however not expect it to make the ultimate DH gaming can.


----------



## dadab12

I really buy it for music, I'm really satisfied with pro 900. but the pro 900 are lacking in certain music genres that i'm interested in. not saying they are not awesome headphones for the price but I think both of these headphones really complete each other for my kind of genres.
   
  and the price I get is 600 euros. I don't plan on missing that


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





meh said:


> I'd actually buy the Earforce off Amazon in the US because of the exchange rate right now and save $20.  If the powered splitter is not required, that's even better really.


 


  I can try a normal splitter with my DSS later and see how it works...I assume it will sound fine.


----------



## TruBrew

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I really buy it for music, I'm really satisfied with pro 900. but the pro 900 are lacking in certain music genres that i'm interested in. not saying they are not awesome headphones for the price but I think both of these headphones really complete each other for my kind of genres.
> 
> and the price I get is 600 euros. I don't plan on missing that


 

 Assuming they are in decent shape, even if you did not like them you could likely sell them here and make your money back, or for that matter make a profit. Of course it is against Head-Fi rules to buy headphones with the intent to sell them for profit. However if the profit is unintentional, and your main reason for purchasing them was personal listening, then you are fine.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I can try a normal splitter with my DSS later and see how it works...I assume it will sound fine.


 


  Yep, its fine.


----------



## Meh

Awesome.  I don't suppose you know how much power output you get from the DSS do you?  I'm just wondering what headphones I can use for it.  Is the MixAmp any different sound quality-wise?


----------



## TMRaven

Mixamp and DSS both use the same dolby chip as far as I know.  Mixamp does produce more power-- I think it was either 70 or 80mw per channel in 32ohm, while DSS was only 40mw per channel at 32 ohm.
   
  The MAJOR difference sound quality wise is their signal to noise ratio.  You won't start hearing static on the Mixamp until you get to around 60% volume, and it's very little.  The DSS however, you get a good bit of static even at its lowest volume.


----------



## Neceo

well i went and got the 598's  , go tthem for 177 shipped.    Now i need to see what to do ,  dss , mixamp  or a receiver with silent cinema ( saw mixed reviews on that )


----------



## chicolom

TMRaven is right with those specs. 
   
  I can only compare the Mixamp 5.8 and DSS as I no longer have the wired mixamp.  The wired mixamp has the best signal to noise ratio of them.
   
  DSS has a _hair_ more hiss at low volume then the Mixamp 5.8, but has less hiss at extreme volumes then the Mixamp 5.8 which gets pretty hissy if you crank it to max.  You have to go really loud on both to reach that point though.  I only listen at ~35% volume on them.
   
  Surround sound wise they are basically identical.  The only differences being that the mixamp has a slight boost in the upper midrange whereas the DSS is more linear, and that the DSS has a stronger bass boost that's adjustable.


----------



## Meh

Ahh ok, thanks for the all the info guys, much appreciated.  Judging from the sounds of things I'm better off getting the wired MixAmp then.  It's $50 more, but it's something I'll be using daily for the next few years so I want something I'd be happy with.  Does anyone here with the wired MixAmp or MixAmp 5.8 have any exerpience driving higher impedance headphones?  I don't have any myself currently but I will be getting some next year.


----------



## bunit

Anybody have impressions on the Fischer Audio FA-011?  I"m currently deciding between getting dedicated gaming cans OR just one set of cans that will be adequate for gaming.  I've heard mixed things about the Ultrasone Pro 900 (music can for me) soundstage/positioning wise, mostly positive but a lot of people saying they pale in comparison to things like the d5000 in soundstage and most other commonly recommended open "gaming" phones, and as such probably aren't super ideal.  Because of that, I'm considering a second mostly "gaming" dedicated can though it would get other uses as well.  I"m also hesitant to spend that much of headphones right now because I'm pretty broke right now...so I was thinking of just getting a cheaper gaming-compatible pair for now then satisfy my music needs later - since my M50s are at least satisfying me for now even though they're not great or anything.
   
  Hopefully the FA-011 can bring in some competition to the AD700, which I would get for the price (90-100 bucks! pretty good) except for the total lack of bass along with the (really ugly, imo) colors/size/design.  I'm not picky about headphone looks, but...I'm gonna be using them in a dorm next year, after all.  I'm hoping the FA-011 could possibly turn out to be a cross between the AD700 and DT770 Pro gaming wise?  Soundstage and accurate positioning in an open phone with some bass but not a ton of it.  Who knows? ...Or it could be a total disappointment, gotta wait for more gaming-specific reviews I guess.  Hopefully some of the people who frequent this thread get their hands on it sometime soon!


----------



## Neceo

They are just getting to peoples homes so you will need to wait a little more.  I was looking at those as well, but I ended up going for the HD 598's .  The last post from the person who got them scared me off a bit.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





neceo said:


> well i went and got the 598's  , go tthem for 177 shipped.    Now i need to see what to do ,  dss , mixamp  or a receiver with silent cinema ( saw mixed reviews on that )


 


  It's no contest. Mixamp or bust, man. The DSS imo is terrible. My friend owned it and it was just a pain. It's cheaply made (no surprise there...) and he had his replaced like 3 times until he finally bought the mixamp. If you're looking at the DSS to save money, then get the AX720. It's on par with the mixamp, offers the same capabilities and it's cheaper. Hell, it even comes with a free headset . Honestly though, the mixamp is the way to go.


----------



## Meh

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> It's no contest. Mixamp or bust, man. The DSS imo is terrible. My friend owned it and it was just a pain. It's cheaply made (no surprise there...) and he had his replaced like 3 times until he finally bought the mixamp. If you're looking at the DSS to save money, then get the AX720. It's on par with the mixamp, offers the same capabilities and it's cheaper. Hell, it even comes with a free headset . Honestly though, the mixamp is the way to go.


 



 Really?  What exactly makes the MixAmp better than the 720 in that case?


----------



## chicolom

Neceo, if you can go to best buy I think they have DSS's in the store.  You can pick one up and try it out.  The packaging is such that you can open it without destroying anything making returns easy. 
   
  You already have HD598's and sound quality wise - I think the DSS would be a better match with the 598s.  598s have forward mids and the mixamp has a slightly boosted upper mids as well, so you double up on mids boost.  I prefer my PC360s with the DSS over the mixamp 5.8 - sounds more balanced and gives better bass boost (although my PC360s strangely don't benefit as much from bass boosting as KSC75 and AD700 do....weird)
   
  Either way, that'd be the easiest way to demo the Dolby Headphone sound, and you can decide whether to keep the DSS or return it and go the Mixamp route.  Whatever.
   
  This sounds a little pro-Turtle Teach, but trust me - I'm not a Turtle Beach spy or anything.  I love Astro and its gear more than TB.  For sure its higher quality stuff.  I just think in some areas (sound) the DSS is fine.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





meh said:


> Really?  What exactly makes the MixAmp better than the 720 in that case?


 

  
  If your talking wired mixamp, it has better SNR ratio (less hiss) then ax720 amp, newer dolby chip (probably no real world difference), more convenient/intuitive/less cluttered....


----------



## Neceo

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Neceo, if you can go to best buy I think they have DSS's in the store.  You can pick one up and try it out.  The packaging is such that you can open it without destroying anything making returns easy.
> 
> You already have HD598's and sound quality wise - I think the DSS would be a better match with the 598s.  598s have forward mids and the mixamp has a slightly boosted upper mids as well, so you double up on mids boost.  I prefer my PC360s with the DSS over the mixamp 5.8 - sounds more balanced and gives better bass boost (although my PC360s strangely don't benefit as much from bass boosting as KSC75 and AD700 do....weird)
> 
> ...


 

  
  I was planning on getting both at the same time at the BB right near me and try them out.


----------



## dadab12

I plan on buying the HD800, You think their Wide open soundstage is good for gaming? gaming is not a top priority ofcourse but It's nice to know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp is very quiet, the AX720 hisses. However, the AX720 sq is about the same as the 5.8.


----------



## chicolom

The OP has spoken 
   
  I would think the HD800 would excel (in theory) - the same way the K70x supposedly do.
   
  If you get them please let us know!


----------



## dub Beatz

If you get the HD800 and don't like them can I has them please :3


----------



## dadab12

From reviews it seems like they offer really matching soundstage. I think it would be amazing nonetheless, atleast the experience.
  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't buy it if it wasn't for the cheap price I'm getting it for so it's a win win situation, I'll report to how it performs against the Ultrasone Pro 900. but I have to buy the mixamp first, I think I'm missing alot without it, right?
   
  My only concern with the HD800 is the brightness that's been reported as I'm quite sensitive to really bright treble so I need to fit a good amp to go along with it. but not too pricy, no idea which though


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FWIH'd on AVS, the HD800 certainly does exceed the same way the K70x does. If you're like me who loves the exagerrated soundstage the K70x has, I would assume the HD800 would perform similarly, positioning-wise.

There are those that can't gauge distance and positioning due to the large soundstage, so YMMV.


----------



## dadab12

I got upgraditis, I just got the Ultrasone pro 900 3 days ago and I'd like to complement it with the HD800. ain't it sweet? when youre into this hobby almost nothing else matters, that's sad.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I got upgraditis, I just got the Ultrasone pro 900 3 days ago and I'd like to complement it with the HD800. ain't it sweet? when youre into this hobby almost nothing else matters, that's sad.


 

 I'd like whatever job you have.


----------



## dadab12

I'm an architect. it's tough, are you sure?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> I'm an architect. it's tough, are you sure?


 


  I used to do architectural drawings. It's what I had planned on going to school for, but gave it up.


----------



## dadab12

you can come to Israel I might give you a demo listening.


----------



## dub Beatz

Lol that's ok. Thanks for the offer, though. Israel scares me.


----------



## dadab12

Yeah, Well, I'm going on and off to certain countries for meetings and perhaps one day i'ma live in new york. hope that I can manage to do so.
  but if were chosen to live in a certain place, let it be.
   
  Though there's nothing to be afraid, Tel Aviv is a great city to live in.


----------



## dub Beatz

I wouldn't be able to survive in Israel.


----------



## dadab12

Yeah it's so tough  to survive here, every day is a struggle :O
  Audiophiles are so picky


----------



## dub Beatz

Haha, I love it.


----------



## Foresight

hi was just wondering is the ad700 ok for rpgs like mass effect and dragon age
  i know its specially good for fps like cod but i occasionally play rgps/rts etc


----------



## maverickronin

You'd probably want something closed and with more bass to help with the immersion. Some Denons or Beyer DT770s would probably be a better choice. If your on more of a budget I'd take the M50 over the AD700s for RPGs as well.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





foresight said:


> hi was just wondering is the ad700 ok for rpgs like mass effect and dragon age
> i know its specially good for fps like cod but i occasionally play rgps/rts etc


 


  I wouldn't purchase the AD700s for something like rpgs. It's way too analytical, and sounds aren't immersive in the slightest. You'll want some closed or semi-open cans with more bass.


----------



## Foresight

u got any suggestions


----------



## kingice10

I suggest the Denon Headphones. Though I rarely see any comments on them here used in gaming. Maybe I can share my impressions on them.
   
  I got my Denon AH-D1100 and for the first few weeks in gaming, I was disappointed to hear so much mid-bass hump in them, it literally crushes my ears when using DSS with Bass Boost...but after a month of burn-in, the bass became tamed and the soundstage became even wider, even the imaging improved a lot. I even prefer it to my Senheisser HD558 because of the better imaging (though soundtage is larger in the Senn HD558) and enveloping. I also use them when I watch tv series and the imaging is much better even without an amp. For SQ, low-end spectrum is more prominent but it can also produce sparkle in the highs. Mids are not forward, which is slightly recessed compared to Senn HD558.
   
  IMO it's a best price for a closed-can, if you are going for a mid-isolating type of cans. Though, Denons have also the old D2000 up to their high-end D7000. The package comes with a short chord for portable use but they included a seperate 3m interconnect chord. Don't worry about the ankled headband though after a while, you will not be bothered by them because of the comfortable pads and mostly the excellent sound immersive experience in your games. The design is also okay, not glossy, manageable to clean and very durable. So I think I'm very satisfied with my Denon AH-D1100 in terms sq on gaming and portable music and also in terms of price.


----------



## kingice10

Oh also I heard the Creative Aurvana Live (CAL), which is very fun and musical portable headphone which I only heard through audition. It is more pricey than the Denon AH-D1100 though but I think they can be a candidate for a closed-can headphone which not only can be used for gaming but also for portability as well.
   
  Note that I preferred my headphones to be portable too: not only used for gaming at home (PC or Console) but also to be used for transport or in the office or gaming outside. That's why I preferred the Denons (AH-D1100/1001/2000) than the Beyer-class (DT770/880/990) or any open headphones. And possible on my current funds, I can get a Ultrasone Ed8 but should have their SQ getting used-to, since on my first-audition I'm not initially impressed with them.


----------



## dub Beatz

A lot of people suggest the D2K for gaming. I would love to get a pair some day. For the time being, the DT770/80 suit my needs amazingly.


----------



## tdockweiler

Anyone tried the Sony SA5000 for gaming? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've always heard they have some similarities to the K702 and it's one headphone that's interested me lately.
  Of course I wouldn't buy it for gaming of course..
   
  It's probably too bright for me and I don't have a tube amp. I believe I read that's what it likes.


----------



## maverickronin

The SA5000s aren't that bright, at least if you don't crank them to try and hear some low bass which they are never going to have anyway. I found them to be significantly less bright than the Beyer 880s or 990s. There's more energy to the treble than the midrange and they have just about no deep bass at all, but even someone like me who's practically allergic to treble didn't find them grating or objectionable like I did with the 880s and 990s. If you stick to genres that don't have much in the way of deep bass you won't find them to be missing much.

I haven't had a lot of 'phones know for their soundstage though, so I can't to many useful comparisons. IIRC the soundstage was quite a bit larger then my HD650's with more precise imaging as well. I didn't get to keep them long though. The cable was busted somewhere and cut in and out and because I bought them open box I couldn't get an exchange for a new one so I just returned them.

I rarely play FPSs and I never tried them with the HRTFs I use for movies because they didn't have enough bass to sound remotely convincing when stuff goes *BOOM!*, so I've got no insight on how they might work with DH.


----------



## Foresight

the denon is outside my price rance
  i can only spend around 100-150
  is ad700 best in that range? i play fps and rgps (dragon age, mass effect)


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





foresight said:


> the denon is outside my price rance
> i can only spend around 100-150
> is ad700 best in that range? i play fps and rgps (dragon age, mass effect)


 


  DT770/80. I'm selling mine for $130 obo. Incredible condition. Ask MLE, they're incredible for that type of gaming.


----------



## maverickronin

The DT770 Pro 80s are plenty good for that sort of thing. The upper mids were to recessed for a lot of the music I listen to but the isolation and the bass will put you right in the action. I don't game as much as I used to, but they were great for movies. I sold mine because my HD650s were better for that despite being open. I'm unaware of anything as good as the DT770s at immersion for less money.

$130 may be a little high though. I wish I actually got that much when I sold mine...


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah. Reason they're sitting at $130 is because of the current new listing price. It's sat at about $170, and I figure listing $130 OBO is a good call. I don't ever start off low and work my way up. If someone is serious about them though, they'll make me an offer.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Just wondering when using the fiio e9 with the mixamp, what's the correct way to have the volume dials set? Mixamp on low and then adjust the volume just with the e9? Or mixamp maxed out and e9 low? I guessing it's better to have the mixamp on low volume to keep maximum clarity in the sound quality or doesn't the fiio outputting the sound degrade it?
Thanks in advance for your help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

$130 for a DT770 Pro is a solid deal. Nothing will come close to it for immersive gaming until you start hitting over $200.

As for Mixamp/E9, set thewired Mixamp to the highest possible volume, and control the volume with the E9. 

With the 5.8, that will may add quite a bit of hiss, so I suggest lowering it to the point where hiss is as low as you want it. If you set the Mixamp too low, you'll lose a lot of dynamics, since the E9 won't have much information to amplify. So the higher the Mixamp volume, the better for the E9. Still, hiss is the one thing you have to be aware of.


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> $130 for a DT770 Pro is a solid deal. Nothing will come close to it for immersive gaming until you start hitting over $200.
> 
> As for Mixamp/E9, set thewired Mixamp to the highest possible volume, and control the volume with the E9.
> 
> With the 5.8, that will may add quite a bit of hiss, so I suggest lowering it to the point where hiss is as low as you want it. If you set the Mixamp too low, you'll lose a lot of dynamics, since the E9 won't have much information to amplify. So the higher the Mixamp volume, the better for the E9. Still, hiss is the one thing you have to be aware of.




K thanks, will there be hiss with wired mixamp at full volume and e9 at say half volume?

Also will there be a jump in sound quality once I get the e9 powering the dt 990 through the mixamp?

Want to get one so bad but my ad 900s still havnt sold yet


----------



## gus6464

MLE,

How does the Mixamp compare to the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS? It is quite a bit cheaper than the Astro.


----------



## reivaj

man finding a used pair of the dt990 600 ohm is so hard all the sudden. when i wasnt sure if i wanted them like 6 of them passed for 220. The only other 220 i saw i was second to ask for it and got sold


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





gus6464 said:


> MLE,
> 
> How does the Mixamp compare to the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS? It is quite a bit cheaper than the Astro.


 


  If you read back 2-3 pages there should be some comparisons...(or search my post history)


----------



## dub Beatz

YOU LIED TO ME! ALL THOSE TIMES I SAID THAT I LOVED YOU! YOU LIED TO ME! YES I TRIED YES I TRIED! 
  RETURN OF THE MACK
  RETURN OF THE MACK
  RETURN OF THE MACK
  YOU KNOW THAT I'LL BE BACK!
   
  ^ to MLE


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





gus6464 said:


> MLE,
> 
> How does the Mixamp compare to the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS? It is quite a bit cheaper than the Astro.


 


  The mixamp and DSS both use the same dolby chip, so they both yield same surround sound prowess.  However, the mixamp provides slightly more power to your headphone (70mw per channel at 32ohm compared to 40mw per channel at 32ohm for dss) and the main thing is that it has a higher signal to noise ratio.  You won't hear any static hiss at all on the mixamp until you turn the volume to about 60%, on the DSS, you hear static no matter the volume (it gets louder at the higher volumes too, just like the mixamp)  Honestly not the biggest of deals unless you listen to music through them.
   
  As for their features, mixamp has the ability to mix game audio and chat audio on the fly, so that's very convenient for just headphones that aren't packaged as headsets that usually have their own chat volume control.  The DSS provides a hardware bass boost unlike the mixamp, and it's decently good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the DSS has an identical sound with the Mixamp, just a bit more hissy, and can't drive headphones as well as the Mixamp. The differences mainly lie in the build quality, inputs, and features. The wired Mixamp has everything you'll pretty much need, but for the cheap price, the DSS is a valid substitute if you don't need voice chat mixing (don't plan on using a mic).

I do think the AX720 is a better substitute, though as everything will be attached to one cable that goes to a set top box, as oppoosed to the DSS and wired mixamp where they have to be next to you at all times, meaning a long optical cable, usb cable. Just too messy for me.


----------



## bunit

S-Logic/S-Logic+ and Dolby Headphone - yay or nay?
  Now I"m pretty sure the answer is "yay" due to the various positive impressions I've been reading but I"m just wondering if anybody in this thread has any of their own (in-depth) impressions to share, to help me out and of course to help the rest of the community out when they search on this topic 
  And...still waiting on those FA-011s to be in the hands of more head-fiers + reviewed when it comes to gaming!  Sub$150 bracket could always use more choices/competition.


----------



## chicolom

I posted this on the AVS forum, but I'll post it here too:
   
  Since the Datel/Intec headset mute switch adapter is no longer available, an the next closest thing I've found is this 2.5mm cable that has mute switch puck built in.
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/x3x4xboxlivetalkbackcablepuck.aspx
   
  Could be useful for those using headphones + mic with a mixamp and want a mute switch close at hand.


----------



## dub Beatz

Back when I was a n00b I used my DJ1 Pros out of onboard sound for playing WoW. It was pretty awesome, but I know it would have been so much better if I had my X-Fi back then.
  
  Quote: 





bunit said:


> S-Logic/S-Logic+ and Dolby Headphone - yay or nay?
> Now I"m pretty sure the answer is "yay" due to the various positive impressions I've been reading but I"m just wondering if anybody in this thread has any of their own (in-depth) impressions to share, to help me out and of course to help the rest of the community out when they search on this topic
> And...still waiting on those FA-011s to be in the hands of more head-fiers + reviewed when it comes to gaming!  Sub$150 bracket could always use more choices/competition.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Hi!
   
  I had the sa5000 which I used mainly for gaming, since when I am at my desk, I am playing, lol!
  Anyway, I didn't find it bright. It was the best I had used for gaming, because the sound is neutral, the tight bass makes the sound feel clean, and the extended highs in my opinion are very welcome for gaming. I sold it because I feld it was ridiculous to have such good headphones with a miserable mic. I bought the pc360.
  
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Anyone tried the Sony SA5000 for gaming?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sho0sh

Just got my mixamp 5.8 - Am  I being special or is there no way to hook up a seperate headphone and mic?
   
  I'm trying to use BeyerDT990 + a Speedlink Mic with the xbox chat cable.
   
  I only have the headphone out on the receiver and a controller out - where does the mic go?


----------



## chicolom

Theres a pink and green y adapter that you use thats included.


----------



## sho0sh

Haha, that will teach me to unbox things properly!  Cheers


----------



## Foresight

whats a good site/place to buy ad700s from
  i live in b.c canada =(


----------



## sk3tch

New member here. I have been a long time AD700/MixAmp user - I recently joined the site and now I have a few toys coming from fellow head-fi'ers: a DT 990 / 250 (2005) and a FiiO E7/E9 set. My question to you head-fi gamer experts is how should I best leverage the E7/E9 with the 360/PS3 (i.e. MixAmp) and my PC (i.e. Xonar DG)? I also have an early '11 MBP which I will be PC gaming on the road with. Any tips are appreciated. Also any re-confirmations that the DT 990 / 250 (2005)s are a good gaming buy (this thread has mentioned them positively several times).  Thanks.


----------



## dub Beatz

The DT 990 / 250 (2005s) are a good gaming buy.
  
  Quote: 





sk3tch said:


> New member here. I have been a long time AD700/MixAmp user - I recently joined the site and now I have a few toys coming from fellow head-fi'ers: a DT 990 / 250 (2005) and a FiiO E7/E9 set. My question to you head-fi gamer experts is how should I best leverage the E7/E9 with the 360/PS3 (i.e. MixAmp) and my PC (i.e. Xonar DG)? I also have an early '11 MBP which I will be PC gaming on the road with. Any tips are appreciated. Also any re-confirmations that the DT 990 / 250 (2005)s are a good gaming buy (this thread has mentioned them positively several times).  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just because I love you guys, I go out on a limb and try things you guys wouldn't normally do.

So I got my HE-4. Planar magnetic, and ludicrously hard to drive. But will the Mixamp alone drive it loud enough for gaming purposes?

The simple answer is YES! Before you all get excited, its the same situation as the 600ohm Beyers. It will drive it loud, but at times, the sound will clip/distort (mostly when a lot of bass is called for). How often? Less often than the 600ohm Beyers. Probably so infrequently, it wouldn't bother me.

Another thing to note: The Mixamp has to be fully on game, and the volume HAS to be Maxed to get it to where I normally like my volume at. Meaning that absolutely no voice chat can be mixed in.

So how does it perform?

The same thing I said of the DT880 applies to the HE-4. It is a sound whoring headphone that picks up a ridiculous amount of detail. I could hear EVERYTHING.

How is the soundstage? Not so big. But not small. Just about average in terms of open headphones. The PC360, AD700, K701, HD598, DT990 all have a definite advantage.

The soundstage reminds me of the DT880.

Positioning? Hmm, still up in the air. I need more testing, but I feel its mostly like the DT880 again, in that it lacks rear depth. Granted, this is with totally underdriving it with just the Mixamp.

Why would I do this? Because audio fidelity isn't a huge factor in video gaming. What's important is that all audio cueas can be heard. The HE-4 with the Mixamp only still sounds stellar, just not optimal.

For those wondering: the E9 actually drives the HE-4 LOUDER than the Lyr. However, there is a clear difference in body, weight, richness, and thickness to the sound. The E9 is very dry and lacking in emotion compared to the Lyr, which REALLY brings out the music with the HE-4. Does it sound good with the E9? You bet. But it pales when compared to the Lyr. The HE-4 and E9 don't pair up well, nor was it meant to. Orthos need quite a bit of power, and this time I can say the Lyr has proven itself to me, though its strangely not as loud as the E9.

As of right now, I will recommend the HE-4 to everyone who has a powerful amp to drive them. It bears a sonic resemblance to the DT880 and DT990. Midpoint between the two in tone. Bright, but with more mids than both, treble that's clearly superior to both, and bass that comes between the DT880 and DT990 in quantity, and just as good a quality that doesn't come close to messing with the mids.

Bass: 8
Mids: 9
Treble: 10 (for me. It will be too much for those that find the Beyer DT880 too harsh, but its clearly not as sharp as the DT990)

So yes, if you want a DT880 like sound with more bass, more mids, and cleaner treble, the HE-4 will do that, but only with a powerful amp like the Lyr. It has a very clear, very crisp, and very quick sound. Those who want warmth and smoothness will not find it in the HE-4. Its bright and its aggresive. Treble sensitive head-fiers, you will wanna skip it, the same way you skip the Beyers.


----------



## dub Beatz

Ok... So here's what I read...
  "My name is MLE, and I decided I'm going to continue my quest to the find the ultimate gaming headphones. Because of this, I'm donating my He-4 to one lucky head-fier. Someone who has been with me through thick and thin. Even more importantly, someone who I'm friends with on facebook. Let's face it, being facebook friends is a big deal. So, without further adieu, I'd like to congratulate dub Beatz on being the lucky recipient of these brand new Hifiman HE-4 orthodynamic headphones. I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy you."
   
  If you don't believe me, just look at the post I quoted, which clearly shows MLE as the author. 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My name is MLE, and I decided I'm going to continue my quest to the find the ultimate gaming headphones. Because of this, I'm donating my He-4 to one lucky head-fier. Someone who has been with me through thick and thin. Even more importantly, someone who I'm friends with on facebook. Let's face it, being facebook friends is a big deal. So, without further adieu, I'd like to congratulate dub Beatz on being the lucky recipient of these brand new Hifiman HE-4 orthodynamic headphones. I hope you enjoy them as much as I enjoy you.


----------



## tyoung8

lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

XD Dub, why couldn't you be a woman? o


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> XD Dub, why couldn't you be a woman?


 


  O__O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I say this because I want you to have my babies.


----------



## dub Beatz

Oh haha. I suppose I catch your drift now. You had me scared there earlier.  <3


----------



## tyoung8

Quick dub Beatz.  Change your pic to a hot girl and say that it is the real you.  You might get a free headphone coming your way!


----------



## dub Beatz

Hai guize I'm a girl


----------



## tyoung8

lmao


----------



## sk3tch

Have you guys ever considered using a receiver that supports Dolby Headphone output instead of a MixAmp/DSS/etc.? I need video switching at my desk so I picked up a Harmon Kardon AVR 154 for $199 from the clearance section of their store. I think coupled with the FiiO E7/E9 it should sound better than the MixAmp for gaming...right? Here's a link if you guys are interested: https://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=AVR%20154&status=


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Hi guys, 
   
  I am now owning the ad700 headphones and I can tell you the recommendations that rain all over the internet for them are completely fair.
  These are awesome for the price they cost. These are real best for gaming. I had never experienced this large soundstage. I am really impressed. I never thought it is that great. People talking about lack of bass but I don't find it to be the case. It seems very neutral to me, there is enough bass on it.
   
  I really regret being skeptical about it. My stamp of approval is on it already! If it only had a mic!


----------



## Inquartata

Here's a question: have any of you tried gaming with the SRH750DJ with the MixAmp? If you have, what are your impressions of the soundstage?
   
  Edited for clarity.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mcnoiserdc said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am now owning the ad700 headphones and I can tell you the recommendations that rain all over the internet for them are completely fair.
> These are awesome for the price they cost. These are real best for gaming. I had never experienced this large soundstage. I am really impressed. I never thought it is that great. People talking about lack of bass but I don't find it to be the case. It seems very neutral to me, there is enough bass on it.
> ...




Everyone perceives neutral differently. But its known fact that on the frequency curve, the AD700 is well below the neutral line in bass. Thing is a tin can. The K701 has more bass and still doesn't hit neutral. 

But in any case, I'm very glad to hear that you really enjoy the AD700. I told you it was a FPS beast.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

may be my unit has more bass than average because I have here the pc360 and ultrasone pro 650 which are not bass light and to me the ad700 is not far enough to say below reasonable...


----------



## dadab12

I want to buy the Mixamp but the shipping to Israel fees are outrageous..
  180$ to be shipped to Israel duties pre-paid. the original price of the mixamp is 139$. are they nuts?


----------



## dadab12

Quote: 





mcnoiserdc said:


> may be my unit has more bass than average because I have here the pc360 and ultrasone pro 650 which are not bass light and to me the ad700 is not far enough to say below reasonable...


 


  how do you compare the pro 650 to the AD700 in terms of directional cues? footsteps and all of those good things


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually that's somewhere along what we pay here. Shipping from Astro is STUPID expensive, even in the States.


----------



## dadab12

I don't get it. I really don't.
  How would I justify paying so much for this?


----------



## Inquartata

Really enjoying it when you play games with it? I know that I play games enough while using the mixamp that I've gotten my money's worth from it. I guess it depends on how much you value the sound you want, and how much you use it. Then again, that can go for almost any purchase, so there's that.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

the pro650 has awesome surround and sense of space but I am not really certain of its positioning...! never tested thouroughly but I can say I d some wrong clues with it... I am very experienced in gaming with headphones
  
  Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> how do you compare the pro 650 to the AD700 in terms of directional cues? footsteps and all of those good things


----------



## dadab12

Thank you, So the AD700 is better for gaming in your opinion for directional cues?
  I wonder how the HD 800 performs with astro mixamp... The Pro 900 perform good without the mixamp... I woner what's the difference between the 650 and 900 in gaming. I guess not much.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> Thank you, So the AD700 is better for gaming in your opinion for directional cues?
> I wonder how the HD 800 performs with astro mixamp... The Pro 900 perform good without the mixamp... I woner what's the difference between the 650 and 900 in gaming. I guess not much.


 

 I wouldn't pair the HD 800 with just the mixamp. It would be ridiculously underpowered, and because of that I can't imagine directional cues would be very accurate. I would also say the AD700 trump almost every other headphone out there in terms of directional accuracy. I can easily say it outperforms the pro 650.


----------



## dadab12

The HD 800 will be powered with SPL Auditor aswell.. don't worry.


----------



## dub Beatz

Oh ok, that post was confusing.


----------



## drozzy

How durable and thick are the cables on the Sennheiser PC360?
   
  They look like regular thin crappy cables on the amazon site...


----------



## mcnoiserdc

lol,
   
  the cables ont he pc360 looks the same as those on the astro mixamp, I find it nice!


----------



## sho0sh

I just got around to having a good gaming session with the mixamp and it really is a thing of beauty when paired with the DT990 pros. I could literally picture where people were around the corners, above, behind. You hear flies, grass, wind its immense. Even when using a decent surround setup I didnt have that much clarity. So glad I bought it! Going to try it with my 1964 Q's soon so see how they compare to the DT990's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear the 990 Pros are working out.  I didn't know what changes to expect between the Pros and the Premiums, as I only had the Premium 990s, but it sounds like they still work well as gaming cans as Pros.


----------



## Browx

Is AD900 maybe better for (competitive) gaming than AD700?
   
  (If price not matters too much, which one to choose?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Almost everyone who has tried both has come away saying the AD700 has better accuracy and positioning.
   
  The AD900 just has better SQ.


----------



## Jae304

Just wanted to add that the AH-D2000 is EXCELLENT with DH.  I'd describe it in very much the same way that MLE described the D7000...though I know the D7000 SQ is better.  Still, D2K is a solid performer with DH.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yeah. About two years ago when I first started looking for gaming headphones, the kings of the closed department were the D2Ks. 
  
  Quote: 





jae304 said:


> Just wanted to add that the AH-D2000 is EXCELLENT with DH.  I'd describe it in very much the same way that MLE described the D7000...though I know the D7000 SQ is better.  Still, D2K is a solid performer with DH.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> TMRaven is right with those specs.
> 
> I can only compare the Mixamp 5.8 and DSS as I no longer have the wired mixamp.  The wired mixamp has the best signal to noise ratio of them.
> 
> ...


 


  Have you tried the Tritton AX720 decoder box. I'm wondering how the noise/hiss level is compared to the Mixamp 5.8. The AX720 are on sale for $100 at Amazon and it would be a lot cheaper if I got that but I'll be watching movies and TV shows so I was wondering how faint or audible it is.
   
  Also has anyone actually used their own headphone and mic with the AX720 decoder box? I know that MLE said that there was two 3.5mm plugs for them but I heard otherwise from someone who own it and would like to confirm that there is a way to plug in your own headphone and mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My roommate owns it. I have plugged in my own PC360, as well as the dealextreme mic. It all works.

Hiss is a smidge more pronounced on the AX720 than the 5.8.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Anyone have audio problem with one earcup being louder than the other? If I turn the Dolby headphone button off the sound is even on the mixamp


----------



## ex0du5

Well I was entertaining the idea of going with headphones this time around, but I just can't deal with the poor quality of clip on mics. I use Ventrilo several hours each day so I need a good directional boom mic.
   
  So I guess that settles it. I'll be going for the Sennheiser PC360.


----------



## Headfonenut123

ex0du5 said:


> Well I was entertaining the idea of going with headphones this time around, but I just can't deal with the poor quality of clip on mics. I use Ventrilo several hours each day so I need a good directional boom mic.
> 
> So I guess that settles it. I'll be going for the Sennheiser PC360.



If you do change your mind the deal extreme mic is a great performer considering it's price, I clip it onto the end of the boom of the official mic and it picks up voice very well


----------



## Jae304

My nephew owns the AX720 -- MLE is right, there are two 3.5mm plugs for use with any headphone/mic combo.  The plugs are hidden by the headset's plug but are exposed when you disconnect it.  As far as hiss is concerned, I wouldn't disagree that the hiss is slightly more pronounced than the mixamp 5.8 (I have one).  It's not a very significant difference but it is noticeable if you compare side by side. 
  Quote: 





matryx said:


> Have you tried the Tritton AX720 decoder box. I'm wondering how the noise/hiss level is compared to the Mixamp 5.8. The AX720 are on sale for $100 at Amazon and it would be a lot cheaper if I got that but I'll be watching movies and TV shows so I was wondering how faint or audible it is.
> 
> Also has anyone actually used their own headphone and mic with the AX720 decoder box? I know that MLE said that there was two 3.5mm plugs for them but I heard otherwise from someone who own it and would like to confirm that there is a way to plug in your own headphone and mic.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Anyone have audio problem with one earcup being louder than the other? If I turn the Dolby headphone button off the sound is even on the mixamp


 


  This usually happens when a headphone is underpowered. At least in my situation. If the volume is low, it will be louder in one ear.


----------



## Headfonenut123

dub beatz said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the reply, yeah that was a thought I had too that one cup was taking the amout of juice it needed and the other cup was left with the remaining power and therefore is being underpowered, just gives me another reason to anticipate getting my e9, brought one today off head-fi member


----------



## purplecrayons

Are the M50's really so bad at gaming? Ignoring competitive shooters, I can't see it doing too bad.
   
  Anyway, can the mixamp properly drive the dt770 pro 80's or will I need a secondary amp? I want headphones for immersion and they look to be perfect, but I'm not sure if my mixamp is up to the task.


----------



## Dorohero

Hi new user here. I am deciding which headphone (or headset) to buy for PC:60% gaming (RPG mainly then FPS and RTS) 20% music (rock,power methal), 20% movies. My current source is xonar D1(no i don't have amp or dac) but i will probably buy xonar essence ST.
   
  My budget is about 200$ and i've done some research and i've narrowed it to these cans which i can buy in my country: PC360, DT770/80 or HD 598 (seriously buying or getting something to be delivered to Czech Republic is pain … you know where).
   
  Now PC360 i've picked since they seems to be good at games and they have mic, although i'm not competitive gamer i'm looking forwad to star wars: the old republic so i actualy might need mic for comunication.
  So i would like to know your opinion on this to help me to choose new cans. (sorry for bad English)


----------



## maverickronin

purplecrayons said:


> Are the M50's really so bad at gaming? Ignoring competitive shooters, I can't see it doing too bad.
> 
> Anyway, can the mixamp properly drive the dt770 pro 80's or will I need a secondary amp? I want headphones for immersion and they look to be perfect, but I'm not sure if my mixamp is up to the task.




They'd be fairly decent for immersion in most RPG, RTS, and other games that don't need positional audio. I'd still prefer the DT770 Pro 80s over the M50s for the soudstage though. Even if you don't need to hear people sneaking up behind you, it will be more immersive.


----------



## purplecrayons

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  Yeah, I'm for sure going with the DT770 pro 80's for immersion. It's just that I remember using my friend's M50 on the mixamp and having a sense of direction with the sounds. It's not crazy accurate as say, my home theatre, but it was certainly distinguishable. For competition, I don't think it'd be too great, but it's capable as a low priced headset for single player games.
   
  At least to my ears it is.


----------



## Klisk

Has anyone had a chance to try the Nox Specialists yet?

I imagine the sound isn't great, but for the price I could see them being quite useful. I'm sure the mids and highs are adequate, but considering the size of the drivers, lacking bass....

I already have AD700's, but I *hate* having to use a separate microphone for them. I also dislike the Astro Mixamp, to be dreadfully honest. I'd rather sacrifice some sound quality to obtain cheap+convenience.

Any input/experience? I might just pick them up as fun beaters if no one else reviews them.

http://www.amazon.com/Specialist-Headset-Negotiator-Adapter-Bundle-Pc/dp/B004CVMPZG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1303796415&sr=8-3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dorohero, the PC360 will be all you need for gaming. Trust me. Not sure about music and movies though... I like a bit more 'fun' than the balanced sound the PC360 has for music and movies.



maverickronin said:


> purplecrayons said:
> 
> 
> > Are the M50's really so bad at gaming? Ignoring competitive shooters, I can't see it doing too bad.
> ...




Even then, you can hear people sneaking up on you. The DT8770 Pro 80 may not have good mids, but they ain't muted either. I was dominating CoD with my Pros...even with the super bass they have. Not ideal, but still better than the M50.

The M50 is fine if positioning and soundstage is of no importance. The DT770 really is a LOT better for gaming though.


----------



## redwarrior191

i'm sorry if it has been asked before..does dolby surround feature can only be achieved with the mixamp?? will the competitiveness of a headphones be reduced significantly without the mixamp?


----------



## mcnoiserdc

Well mixamp makes the space feel wider and more natural..!
  
  Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> i'm sorry if it has been asked before..does dolby surround feature can only be achieved with the mixamp?? will the competitiveness of a headphones be reduced significantly without the mixamp?


----------



## Headfonenut123

Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 well i got my e9 and it works great, have a question with the setup, i put the y adaptor in the headphone jack of the mixamp and plug my mic in the pink jack, then i use the astro 3.5mm male to male cable from the green jack to the line in on the back of the e9, then my dt 990 go into the headphone jack on the front of the e9
   
  does it matter wether i use the 3.5mm or the 6.3mm jack on the e9?
   
  i have it on high gain for the dt990
   
  does the mic get any amplification from the e9? as it seems quiet in comparison to the game sound, i have to turn the voice/game dial really far to the voice side to get a balance and even then it can be a struggle to hear my friends if alot is going on


----------



## Poseidon

[size=small]Hello. I was looking for headphones and I ended up here. [/size]
[size=small]I am looking for headphones for PS3 gaming. I play first person shooters; mostly Call of duty online multiplayer. I own two headsets now; Turtle beach PX21, and Astro A40 with a wireless mixamp. I kind of like the PX21’s, but not the Astro’s because they sound quite lifeless, dry and flat. The PX21’s feels more vibrant and lively and it is easier to hear enemies with them compared to A40.[/size]
[size=small]What’s most important for me is the ability to easily hear enemy sound, especially footsteps. Soundstage and Sound positioning is also important together with the ability to hear far, or further than other headphones/sets that may be in the game room. [/size]
[size=small]I have been looking at AD700, DT770 pro 80, Premium DT990 and Sannheiser PC360. [/size]
[size=small]In context to what I’m looking for I wonder which one will be best for me. Or is there any other I should consider?  [/size]
[size=small]Please advice.[/size]
  [size=small]Thank you for your time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



[/size]


----------



## TMRaven

You're probably liking the PX21 more because it's very bassy (albeit very muddy bass) The AD700 is crystal clear, but lacks a severe amount of bass.  The DT990 has slightly less of a soundstage distance wise compared to the AD700, but its accuracy and positioning are far and above the AD700 I feel.  I can't comment on the PC360 but I hear it's really good as well.
   
  My vote would be fore DT990.  Make sure you get 32ohm.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Based on your requirements and you liking a lively sound I'd also definitely say go for the dt990 32ohm as tmraven recommended


----------



## obazavil

PC360! easy to drive, headset, sound good


----------



## mcnoiserdc

If you want the best sound with mic, and don't want to be buying more and more, just get the pc360!
  
  Quote: 





poseidon said:


> [size=small]Hello. I was looking for headphones and I ended up here. [/size]
> [size=small]I am looking for headphones for PS3 gaming. I play first person shooters; mostly Call of duty online multiplayer. I own two headsets now; Turtle beach PX21, and Astro A40 with a wireless mixamp. I kind of like the PX21’s, but not the Astro’s because they sound quite lifeless, dry and flat. The PX21’s feels more vibrant and lively and it is easier to hear enemies with them compared to A40.[/size]
> [size=small]What’s most important for me is the ability to easily hear enemy sound, especially footsteps. Soundstage and Sound positioning is also important together with the ability to hear far, or further than other headphones/sets that may be in the game room. [/size]
> [size=small]I have been looking at AD700, DT770 pro 80, Premium DT990 and Sannheiser PC360. [/size]
> ...


----------



## MrKere

Hi and hello everyone. I am planning to get the Beyer Dynamic DT990 to pair with my Astro Mixamp 5.8. But the thing is which impedance should I choose? I saw TMRaven was suggesting to get 32Ohm. Can someone explain?


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





mrkere said:


> Hi and hello everyone. I am planning to get the Beyer Dynamic DT990 to pair with my Astro Mixamp 5.8. But the thing is which impedance should I choose? I saw TMRaven was suggesting to get 32Ohm. Can someone explain?


 


  the 32 ohm would be the easiest to drive. Also, the average person can't hear the differences between the difference impedance models. I would say if you want the most effective and efficient pair, get the 32ohm, but the 250ohm and 600ohm are generally regarded as "better." It's all subjective, but with my personal experience the only real audible differences in Beyers come between the pro and premium models, not the different impedances.


----------



## MrKere

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> the 32 ohm would be the easiest to drive. Also, the average person can't hear the differences between the difference impedance models. I would say if you want the most effective and efficient pair, get the 32ohm, but the 250ohm and 600ohm are generally regarded as "better." It's all subjective, but with my personal experience the only real audible differences in Beyers come between the pro and premium models, not the different impedances.


 


 Thanks for the explanation. Amazon are selling the DT990 Premium 32 Ohm for $299 while AD700 are going for $94.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well maybe I should go with AD700 first. I can always sell it if I am not satisfied.


----------



## dub Beatz

The AD700 won't let you down. Unless of course you crave bass, lol.


----------



## RapidPulse

I purchased the DT990 Premium 250 ohm from Amazon back when they were $179 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  I can tell you that the Astro Mixamp 5.8 has no trouble driving these whatsoever.  They sound great and have helped my FPS gaming tremendously (which is sad...because I am still not very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## Jae304

That's no understatement either.  I don't care how amazing their soundstage is, they literally sound like tin cans to me.  I'd go with the Beyers over the ADs without even a hint of second guessing.

  
  Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> The AD700 won't let you down. Unless of course you crave bass, lol.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





dub beatz said:


> The AD700 won't let you down. Unless of course you crave *music*, lol.


 

*Fixed.*
   
*-*Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. I love the AD700s for gaming but man...they just have no weight in music unless the music you like has zero low frequencies. Find the right music, and the AD700 sounds so clean and vast though. They are love/hate for me.

If anyone needs a headSET, just skip everything and go for the PC360. Seriously.

Headphones for gaming? DT990, no question.... unless you happen to be extremely sensitive to treble.

If you like less bass and treble, the HD598 is top tier for the price.

BTW guys, the HE-4 is fantastic for gaming (detail whoring, balanced and pristine sound, good positioning, though not as good as my faves). I plan to do a write up for them, but I don't have much free time, and I can't recommend them due to the amount of power that they need to be worthwhile, as well as price. Those who love your DT880s REALLY should look at the HE-4 as an upgrade in all aspects.


----------



## maverickronin

I think even I could get by with the DT990s in most games.  Most FPS don't have for example, violin BGM.  Some RPGs though...


----------



## TMRaven

I havn't tried the DT990s for gaming yet, but what I've heard from music, the DT990 seem to be on a whole nother level of accurate imaging compared to AD700.  What I'm curious to know is if the large amount of bass the DT990 has creates an atmospheric bass veil around you.


----------



## maverickronin

I never noticed it in movies and stuff.  The highs killed it for me with anime though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TMR, no it doesn't because the DT990's bass is very quick (thanks to open design), so it doesn't bleed into the rest of the sound like typical closed cans with boomy bass. It works so well, its my favorite bass of all headphones I've used.


----------



## TMRaven

Yeah I thought as much.  I'd probably eventually want to use mine to replace the AD700 as gaming headset, but I don't quite want to velcro the labtec boom mic onto it just yet.  Would ps3 -> mixamp -> tubeamp -> DT990 work?  I guess I'd have to further amp the headphone while the mic only uses mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That would work just fine.


----------



## chicolom

All that talk about the AD700's bass make me wonder how audio technica gets away with claiming *5 *- 30hz frequency response.  They sure aren't "responding" much even at 60hz, let alone *5hz!!*


----------



## TMRaven

EQ them aggressively and you'll hear sub-bass.


----------



## dub Beatz

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> EQ them aggressively and you'll hear sub-bass.


 


  I did this with my Auzen Forte. The bass heavily EQ'd still doesn't touch the bass on my DT770/80s un eq'd.


----------



## maverickronin

I haven't tried it, but I can't imagine =2661&graphID[1]=&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones]+25dB working out too well.  I haven't tried it, and I sure wouldn't want to risk my drivers on it if I owned a pair.  Drivers like that just don't do really low bass  They don't have the excursion.  Even my HD650s start making rather alarming noises if you try and put too much bass through them.  +25dB added to the bass and played through an amp strong enough not to clip at a normal listening volume is liable to break a lot of bass-lite headphones.
   
  They aren't all LCD-2s which will take 15 whole watts and play at 133dB with less <1% THD.
   
  5hz at what would be stupidly high SPL if it wasn't subsonic doesn't even faze my XB700s.  You can't hear a thing, but you can feel them.  That means its doing it properly and you're not just hearing higher order harmonics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's quite amazing to hear the XB700 work at such low levels. All for $80. Too bad they're so bad for gaming.... lol. So much sub bass bloat....


----------



## TMRaven

It only took about +12db from iTunes eq for me to be able to hear pretty well lower frequencies on the AD700.  I can't comment for the lowest amount of extension down to 20hz and below, but it was enough to make pretty much every form of music enjoyable.  You literally go from not being able to hear some of the reverb in extended low tones and bass drums to being able to hear them-- even feeling them a little bit.  Nothing like some other headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the AD700's bass is AUDIBLE. It just has no impact. =/


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> It only took about +12db from iTunes eq for me to be able to hear pretty well lower frequencies on the AD700.  I can't comment for the lowest amount of extension down to 20hz and below, but it was enough to make pretty much every form of music enjoyable.  You literally go from not being able to hear some of the reverb in extended low tones and bass drums to being able to hear them-- even feeling them a little bit.  Nothing like some other headphones.


 
  At what like 60hz or something?  That's usually what the lowest band on a standard 10 band graphic EQ is and that's not low at all.  That's about where bass _starts _for me


----------



## TMRaven

32hz.  Even without an EQ you can hear bass down to 40hz with the AD700 using an individual tone generator, but it's very low.  
   
  It certainly has the aptitude to produce lower tones, it's just not competent at it.


----------



## mcnoiserdc

I found the ad700 enough


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> 32hz.  Even without an EQ you can hear bass down to 40hz with the AD700 using an individual tone generator, but it's very low.
> 
> It certainly has the aptitude to produce lower tones, it's just not competent at it.


 
  That actually is fairly low.  The AD700s are only down 10dB there so EQ still might do some good.  That's fairly close to the =2661&graphID[1]=1463&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones]SA5000s I owned briefly.  I was running my D2+ to my Bithead and turned the Mach3Bass up to the maximum and they were still to thin with bass heavy electronica.  They were great if you were listening to something with nothing deeper than semi-modern tuned-to be-audible-over-crappy-speakers high pitched kick drum.


----------



## purplecrayons

For you duders with the mixamp, at what level volume do you usually set it at? Also, do you leave the game/voice balance neutral or switch it all the way to game when not using a mic?
   
  For reference, the headphones I'm using are A40*, AD700, M50, 770 pro 80.
   
   
  * Not as bad as I thought, but definitely overpriced.


----------



## Jae304

Level is  constant variable for me depending on my mood, can't really say I have a standard setting.  As far as game/voice balance, I really only use the mixamp when I intend to game with my mic.  When I'm not going to use my mic, I plug my headphones into my HT receiver.  The sound is noticeably cleaner and it lets me use different EQ settings as well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





purplecrayons said:


> For you duders with the mixamp, at what level volume do you usually set it at? Also, do you leave the game/voice balance neutral or switch it all the way to game when not using a mic?
> 
> For reference, the headphones I'm using are A40*, AD700, M50, 770 pro 80.
> 
> ...


----------



## Inquartata

If I'm using A40's (which is when I have to use a mic), the master volume of the mixamp is around 1/3rd of max volume, with the game/voice set on the voice side at about halfway. If I'm using HFI-780s, the master volume is less than 1/4th of the max volume with game/voice set to almost 100% game.


----------



## chicolom

Just picked up a pair of CAL!s in a head-fi trade.  I didn't have any closed phones, and my AD700s weren't cutting it for electronic/bassy music.  The CALs of course blow them away in that area.  They have a very fun and pleasing signature. 
   
  I gave them a brief run for gaming.  For gaming, the soundstage was a little small for my taste, but I'm used to open cans, and I can' really fault them there as they're closed.  They do the best they can for their design. 
   
  I would still reach for an open headphone for gaming purposes, and open headphones are still the best suited for gaming IMO.  For music though, the CALs definitely filled a void for me.


----------



## tdockweiler

I don't know if anyone cares, but I've been doing some more comparisons with my HD-598, K601 and K702. To me these are the top 3 gaming headphones I've tried yet.
   
  In the end after many days of using each, I prefer the K601, but with that I sacrifice a few things, but it's worth it.
   
  First there is the HD-598. This has quite a lot of detail and it's soundstage is super huge, especially with DH. Imaging is very good, but the only problem is that the sound isn't as clear as the K601 or K702. Level of detail is very good and it's forward sounding mids really making gaming so much more engaging and fun. I would be perfectly happy with this as a primary gaming, movie and music headphone.
   
  The K601 is very similar to the HD-598, but it is slightly more detailed, has a smoother sound signature, but slightly less forward mids. The soundstage is quite good and a step behind the K702, AD700 and HD-598 in terms of size. At first I felt it was less detailed than the K702, but not quite. So close that I'm now perfectly happy with the K601's level of detail. The reason I prefer the K601 over the HD-598 for gaming is that it's a lot more clear, has just as good of imaging and the extra detail helps. The K601 is slightly less of a front row like experience compared to the HD-598. It's NOTHING like the K702 though. Compared to the K702, the K601 is more of a front row like experience. The K601 is slightly more relaxed in it's mids than the 598, but they're still fairly forward sounding.
   
  The K702 will be best for very competitive gamers I think. It has a ton of detail I've found and the reason I would use it over the K601 is that its far more clear to my ears. Not a huge difference, but quite a bit better. For music I prefer the K601 due to it sounding far more natural. The K702 has a HUGE soundstage and you don't really get the front row like experience. It kind of reminds me of listening to speakers in a way. With the wrong amp, the K702's mids can sound quite distant. On the E9 they're great and on my Micro Amp, even more so. My problem with the K702 is that the treble causes them to be a bit bothersome in some games. It could be my amp is too aggressive or it needs further burn-in. I'm only at the 40-50 hour mark. On the E9, the treble is just the same.
   
  If you don't want to feel as if you're further away from everything (probably gives the wrong impresssion) then go with the K601. Switching from the K702 to the K601 it feels like someone chopped off that annoying treble. At first its a shocker, but the K601 really does have more than enough treble for me. If a song or game has really annoying treble that annoys my ears, it will still sound like that on the K601, but it will tame it very, very slightly. Sometimes the treble on the K702 makes things sound a bit un-natural.
   
  Basically my impressions of the K601 vs the K702 are similar as before. K601 has more forward sounding mids compared to the K702 and this is probably due to the smaller soundstage and pads that are not angled. The K601 are a perfect balance of everything in it's signature I think. You could easily use this for gaming all day if you wanted to. Very non-fatiguing. They have the relaxed sound of the HD-600, but are not that laid back. They feel like a mix between things I like about the HD-600 and the K702. Weird, I know. I feel though that the K601 has more treble than the HD-600 with it's stock cable and it's more revealing and detailed. HD-600 isn't bad for gaming. I prefer the K601 to the HD-600 by far. The HD-600 doesn't seem as clear sounding overall.
   
  Here's my preference right now:
   
  1) AKG K601 (E9 has great synergy with this BTW!)
  2) AKG K702 (E9 made me love this for gaming, but it benefits from a more expensive amp for sure)
  3) Sennheiser HD-598
  4) HD-650 (hate this headphone for gaming, but its nice for music. For gaming its best to have a neutral amp and cable)
   
  AD700 is not a bad option. I only like it for gaming because of its massive soundstage, detail and imaging. It's slightly recessed mids are kind of a problem for me. Sometimes it's not noticeable. I prefer the HD-598 overall, but the sound feels less clear and less detailed, but better for music of course.
   
  AKG K240 Studio is not bad also as a low budget gaming headphone that's equally good for music. The negative is that it's semi-open and it's soundstage isnt that large. I prefer it to the HD-555 for gaming, but not the 598. This headphone is easily found for $70 as an open box!
   
  I'm also a huge fan of Koss Pro DJ 100 for gaming where a closed headphone under $100 is required. Some people like the V6 for gaming, but I believe this is much better and more detailed. I played through Bioshock 2 a year ago with this and it was quite the experience. It does have a tad too much bass for competitive gaming. I never want to suggest closed headphones though, but a few closed headphones have good sounstages (like the D2000, D7000 etc). This headphone has a ton of detail for only $80. I have yet to hear anything with more for under $100. It's also my favorite closed headphone for music under $200, but needs an amp to sound good.
   
  The Beyer Dynamic DT-235 for gaming is quite nice. It sounds best with circumaural pads and modding though. Quite good for only $55! HD-497 pads fit it. Think HD-201 pads are the same.
   
  Strangely I disliked the DT-880 for gaming. I never had a problem with it's mids until I tried them for gaming. I've now tried all 3. I prefer the 32 ohm version.
   
  BTW in the past I disliked the K702 for gaming. Turns out it was bad amp synergy. My Asgard absolutely HATES the K702. It makes the soundstage sound funny and makes background detail sound too distant. As if tiny details are getting lost. It also made the mids sound recessed at times. Very strange. The E9 is better than the Asgard for the K702, but that doesn't mean the E9 is the better amp.
   
  If you want a closed headphone for gaming that's similar to the K702, but with a fairly average soundstage, check into the KRK KNS-8400. That thing is a detail monster and it even comes with memory foam pads! It needs a ton of burn-in though. It's quite treble heavy out of the box. It has as much detail as the DT-880.
   
  EDIT:
  I also forgot to mention that the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 is one of the best I've tried for gaming too. I dont suggest them due to price and how uncomfortable they are. It's mids are a bit too forward at times though. Its soundstage is smaller than the AD700 though and unlike the Ad700 it's not bass light. I find it more detailed than the K702, but most don't seem to agree. K702 might be a little more clear overall.


----------



## canoners

I like the HD650 more than the AD700 for gaming o_O Positioning is more accurate to me.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





canoners said:


> I like the HD650 more than the AD700 for gaming o_O Positioning is more accurate to me.


 

 For non-competitive gaming I might use the HD-650 over the AD700. I guess I don't know why I put the HD-650 at #4 since I didn't want to add that to my list.
  That soundstage of the AD700 sure is addicting though, but the HD-650 is far more engaging and I prefer it's mids.
   
  At times I wish the HD-650 was a little more clear sounding, but still very good. I actually prefer the HD-600 over the 650 for games, but the HD-650 for music. Too bad I can't keep both!
   
  Sometimes I get a little excited. I guess I don't hate the HD-650 for gaming since now that I think about it, I'd probably prefer it over the DT-880.


----------



## chicolom

My goal by the end of the summer is to get some black Q701s and an matrix m-stage (Class A biased)


----------



## tdockweiler

I was hoping someone on head-fi with the K701/K702 could take one for the team and see if there REALLY is a difference between them.
  People often wrongly assume updates of a previous model are just marketing, but maybe not with the Q701.
   
  The Q701 is said to have smoother and more tamed treble and maybe more bass. I wish and hope this is true. I think if I could tame the treble on my K702 without an EQ it might be one of my top 2 headphones for music. I've heard a tube amp can do this, but I don't like the K702 enough to want to buy one! Maybe a specific solid state amp will do this too, but again..not worth it. The E9 1/8" jack does this a tad, but it reduces it's soundstage.
   
  I guess I will keep burning my K702 in past the 40-50 hour mark, but I doubt much will change.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> My goal by the end of the summer is to get some black Q701s and an matrix m-stage (Class A biased)


----------



## chicolom

I've heard the same about the Q701.  I talked to someone who said compared them and said they have "More (better) bass, and softer/warmer treble".  He preferred his K501 to his K701s, but preferred the Q701 to the K501s and 701s.
   
  At any rate, if I'm going to buy any AKG flagships, it may as well be the Q701, in case what has been said about it is true (plus I like the look of the black Q701s).
   
  I'm a soundstage whore, and there's not much point in getting better cans for me unless they also do soundstage extremely well.
   
  .After A LOT of searching, the K70x are consistently mentioned when comparisons between the best soundstage come up.  Plus I like open cans, velours, huge earpads, etc. and they seem to meet all those criteria.  I like to picture them as baby HD800s...


----------



## chicolom

Just saw this on Astro's website:

 "ASTRO Gaming is joining the Skullcandy experience and headlining as their premium brand of video game equipment.
   
  Skullcandy recognizes the strong influence of video gaming in their youth-driven, high-energy world and sees the ASTRO brand as a core part of their growing family.
   
  Fueled by Skullcandy’s scale and global reach, ASTRO is about to receive a turbo boost – enabling it to continue providing the high-end gear to professional and elite gamers worldwide."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm on my phone but, AW HEEEEEEELL NAW!

*insert facepalm meme*

BTW, btw, congrats on the CAL purchase. And I agree, they're not gonna beat open headphones for gaming. Still as closed headphones, I find them quite good for single player gaming more than anything. Better than the M50 for gaming, and almost as good for music (I find them to be on par with slightly different tonal characteristics).


----------



## chicolom

Thanks, I'm enjoying the CALs  a lot with music, especially the genres that we know the AD700s fail HARD at.
   
  Lets hope skull-candy doesn't give Astro gear their signature "touch-o-ugly", and start putting glittery vomit-inducing skulls all over everything  : \


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TBH, they were already going that route with their dreaded speaker tags. I think the stock black tags on the 2011 Astros are very nice. All that other schiit is just trying too hard, IMHO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chic, edit that post on AVS. Admins don't believe me so I have to be a little discrete there.


----------



## chicolom

Haha, Okay.
   
  ...what did you do to those poor admins that they've sworn an oath to destroy you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing. When I was having that problem when I couldn't log in to either my HF or AVS accounts on my old comp (probably a hack or virus), I sent them an email asking for them to change my password so I could use it again. They said nothing was wrong and wouldn't give me my account. So I made a new accounta and they banned it immediately. Now we'll see how long RC lasts...


----------



## chicolom

You'd think they'd have better things to do then swing banhammers around.  Its a freaking AV forum.  No one cares.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Right? They could check my IP and see I'm trying to log in from the same frigging address. Head-fi personnel fixed my problem REALLY quickly. Sigh...


----------



## dub Beatz

Want me to go rough em up a bit?


----------



## Phos

Would you care to give your HE-4's a spin to test how they handle Dolby Headphone?  Admittedly this is primarily out of curiosity, because I know you either need to double amp or use a Xonar STX > line out > beefy amp to pull this off.  
   
  A read an assertion on one of the earlier pages that angled drivers don't work well with HRTF, this seems unlikely to me considering that the much lauded AD700 and the HD5x5/5x8 series headphones are all like this.  This _might _apply to S-Logic, though, considering that S-Logic just places the driver off center rather than angling it (right?).


----------



## dub Beatz

I think he did, and reported they were pretty good.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Just won a pair of pc 360s on eBay for £72.00  

Just wondering I know they work great straight through the mixamp but do they sound better amped?

Are they a solid headset that last if they are looked after?


----------



## mcnoiserdc

They are great and mixamp is enough
  Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Just won a pair of pc 360s on eBay for £72.00
> 
> Just wondering I know they work great straight through the mixamp but do they sound better amped?
> 
> Are they a solid headset that last if they are looked after?


----------



## maverickronin

So, I saw this and thought it looked pretty interesting.
   
  Anyone around here try the W1000X with gaming?


----------



## NapalmK

"Anyone around here try the W1000X with gaming?" -maverickronin
   
  Sorry, I'm having trouble with quoting. I currently have the W1000X's and have tried them with gaming but I haven't done any in depth analysis as of yet. I'm a little busy at the moment but I think I can manage a good listen sometime in the next week or so if you're interested. I can't guarantee that I'll remember or have the time though so just shoot me a pm if I forget. I also have the LCD-2s, AD2000s, and K701s if you're interested in some comparisons.


----------



## sho0sh

Just thought I'd report back after using the setup for a while (Mixamp 5.8 + DT990 Pro + Speedlink Clip-on mic)
   
  Absolutely amazing, no complaints from my end, has seen my kills go up about 5-6 per game, I can easily hit about 30 now 
  Only slight complaint would be in the mic department, apparently I am clear, but it sounds like I'm in a toilet!


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





napalmk said:


> "Anyone around here try the W1000X with gaming?" -maverickronin
> 
> Sorry, I'm having trouble with quoting. I currently have the W1000X's and have tried them with gaming but I haven't done any in depth analysis as of yet. I'm a little busy at the moment but I think I can manage a good listen sometime in the next week or so if you're interested. I can't guarantee that I'll remember or have the time though so just shoot me a pm if I forget. I also have the LCD-2s, AD2000s, and K701s if you're interested in some comparisons.


 


  I'm actually not all that interested since I rarely play FPS any more, but I though I'd bring it up in case someone else around here who does was interested.
   
  I would be interested in how they do with movies via DH or other HRTFs which is usually something that's good with gaming and has bass too.  If you don't watch movies and stuff that way then don't bother for my sake.  I'm likely to pick one up sometime in the future any way.


----------



## Filius

TDock:
   
  How do the AD700s compare with the DJ100s for music?  Which do you like better?  How does the bass compare?
   
  I have the DJ100s and love them, but they're not very comfortable. Since the AD700s are just a few bucks more I thought I might try them.


----------



## tdockweiler

If you find the DJ100 uncomfortable you can replace the pads with some cheap MDR-V6 pads. That's what I've done and I haven't found that it alters the sound much, if at all.
  AD700 definitely has much less bass than the DJ100. The DJ100 is one step under being bass heavy when amped well IMO. Both headphones are just totally different. The only advantage the AD700 has is more treble and a larger soundstage, but the mids are just not the same. AD700 has slightly recessed mids, but it's not a problem for some.
   
  DJ100 is strangely quite good for a closed gaming headphone.
   
  Personally I hate the AD700 for music. It has this weird tonality at times. Sometimes it's very good and other times not so good. I think out of the dozens of headphones I've tried only two haven't had enough bass for me. RE0 IEM and the AD700.
   
  EDIT: BTW I'm heard some people stuffing things into the DJ100 pads to keep them from touching your ears so much (if that's the problem). They need a good seal for the best bass.
  
  Quote: 





filius said:


> TDock:
> 
> How do the AD700s compare with the DJ100s for music?  Which do you like better?  How does the bass compare?
> 
> I have the DJ100s and love them, but they're not very comfortable. Since the AD700s are just a few bucks more I thought I might try them.


----------



## staffy

hi been looking in to upgrading from pc161 mainly for gaming the od movie. i'm using x-fi elite pro card at the mo but Positional accuracy isn't great, not sure if thats down to the pc161 or cmss.
  Do u think changing to something with dh help or just save me money and stick with x-fi?
   
  pc360 has the mic plus the gd idea of vol on ear instead of inline cable. I only really use voise in 1 mmo game so boom mic isn't that important. but in fps Positional accuracy is. i can get these for £130 donno what that convert to across the pond. the others are hd598's what are ment to have better sq, bit worried about the cracking issue on these tho. New sealed box but not from a shop £120 seems a gd deal or may be to gd. i'm stuck on what todo for the best


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





staffy said:


> hi been looking in to upgrading from pc161 mainly for gaming the od movie. i'm using x-fi elite pro card at the mo but Positional accuracy isn't great, not sure if thats down to the pc161 or cmss.
> Do u think changing to something with dh help or just save me money and stick with x-fi?
> 
> pc360 has the mic plus the gd idea of vol on ear instead of inline cable. I only really use voise in 1 mmo game so boom mic isn't that important. but in fps Positional accuracy is. i can get these for £130 donno what that convert to across the pond. the others are hd598's what are ment to have better sq, bit worried about the cracking issue on these tho. New sealed box but not from a shop £120 seems a gd deal or may be to gd. i'm stuck on what todo for the best


 
   
  I would try and switch to Dolby headphone.  Most people prefer it over similar surround DSPs like cmss.
   
  The newest batches of HD598s have switched to a new plastic without the cracking problem.


----------



## Zombie_X

I use my T1 with my NAD T747 amp via RCA output to my WA3+. Yes I drag the WA3+ into my room and hook it up to my amp since the NAD's internal headphone amp is lacking. The NAD T747 has Dolby Headphone and it sounds quite convincing but I prefer a standard stereo for the T1. Dolby Headphone to me makes the soundstage very unnatural and kinda hollow.
   
  Still though with the T1 on _Black Ops_ and _Modern Warfare 2_ (Yeah I like CoD) it makes quite a convincing image. Love how I can hear people try to knife me from behind then I turn and pop them with the Revolver or DE . Also I use it on Bad Company 2 where this headphone really shines.
   
  On a side note I tried with KILLZONE 3 and man you can get some nice panoramic sound from this amp.


----------



## Ra97oR

Been using the A2000X for gaming lately, the surround position is as good as the PRM, pin point accuracy even for a closed phone, but the depth (above and below plane) and the distance judgement is not as good. The A2000X is a worthy FPS headphone but not really made for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lots of fun tonight playing Black Ops with Zombie_X and ssavage.

Even though I won almost all the games. 

Used the PC360s tonight.

Yes, I'm a Gun Game master....apparently.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lots of fun tonight playing Black Ops with Zombie_X and ssavage.
> 
> Even though I won almost all the games.
> 
> ...


 

 PC360 > T1
   
  That's the only logical conclusion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell's yeah! 

LOL. Nah, Zombie and ssavage were both doing quite well, just I had the edge of having too much experience in Free For All-esque match types (I play those 99% of the time). I'm nowhere near as good when it's team based matches. I'm too worried about myself and the suroundings to worry about team members...

Audio isn't as important in Black Ops as the other Call Of Duty games, so I wouldn't say the headphones were a big reason, though they certainly still help.

To be honest, I don't have much challenges in Gun Game. I almost always win.... it's weird. I don't THINK I'm great, but I almost never lose. I dunno. I have a lot of fun in Gun Game.

We also played a few rounds of One In The Chamber and I won those as well (except one). Playing Free For All since Call of Duty 4: MW really helped me out in this.

Zombie, you were saying how Dolby Headphone wasn't for you. I can understand it. Though I can't live without it, it does sound a bit weird when you're used to stereo. You do lose some sound fidelity in place of better surround sound-like placement. So I wouldn't say DH sounds BETTER than stereo, but for those who want more of a home theater like sound (where it sounds like speakers are around you as opposed to sounding like headphones), DH is it.

I tried playing in stereo a few times, and it totally messed me up. Everything just sounds too Two dimensional for me.


Okay, I told myself I wasn't going to put this up ever since I don't you guys to think I'm gonna be playing a lot, but my tags are...

360:

i Lust Envy i (capital i's)

I just changed to this from I Chaos Zero I two days ago.


PS3:

Sin_Crimson



I ONLY have Black Ops on the 360 atm, and I mainly only play Gun Game, though with a big enough group I might play some Ground War and TDM.

I DON'T play often, but if I'm on Black Ops, shoot me a message, and I'll try my best to join up (on the 360, I have no multiplayer games on the PS3, though with Sony giving us two free games, I might get Dead Nation. I have MvsC2 and Street Fighter HD for the PS3.)


----------



## kingice10

GAME ON! COD:BO TDM on XBOX 360!


----------



## Jae304

Just wanted to say that Dead Nation is worth getting whether you get it free or not, it's a fun game that offers a lot of bang for your buck.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hell's yeah!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## KuKuBuKu

Man, haven't played CoD in such a long time... was a huge fan of CoD 4 but after MW2 and BO I basically stopped playing. After the initial shock of using all the new gear and everything I get kinda bored. Still a fun game though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah CoD4 is my fave too. Sometimes simplicity is best. It still has plenty of options. I also think it had the best maps. The newer games have maps a bit too big for the kind of action CoD calls for. Big maps work for slower paced games like Battlefield.


----------



## KuKuBuKu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah CoD4 is my fave too. Sometimes simplicity is best. It still has plenty of options. I also think it had the best maps. The newer games have maps a bit too big for the kind of action CoD calls for. Big maps work for slower paced games like Battlefield.


 

  
  I liked Bad Company 2. Played it at my friends house on his Gaming PC. I might get it, it's 20 bucks on Steam.


----------



## KuKuBuKu

Uh-oh. Guys at marketing are telling me I shouldn't advertise other games. Portal 2 is the best game.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like the BF games, but I'm too much of a run and gunner, so I get bored of the long span of inactivity in BC2. Lot of trekking to get into the action.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yeah it was fun MLE. I'll add you on the PS3 as well. Do you have MW2 on the PS3? How about Medal of Honor? 
   
  Also my PSN ID is _SaiyanElite87. _
   
  I also have a Youtube channel here that has a lot of gameplay videos > http://www.youtube.com/user/SaiyanElite87


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't really have anything on my PS3, as I greatly prefer the 360 controller for FPS games. As of right now, I only have MvsC2, Street Figjter II HD, and a few other PSN arcade games. Only Star Ocean International as my one PS3 game. I really only use my PS3 for movies. 

I had MW2 on the 360 but got tired of it. I still have CoD4 in the house though.

I'll hit you up on PS3 when I get home.

I'm most likely gonna get on Black Ops again tonight.


----------



## Phos

Just got an Earforce DSS in the mail.  Thoughts so far:  Surround effect seems much better than CMSS, but there's quite a noise floor on this device.


----------



## tdockweiler

You're not the same Zombie_x from the Fallout 3 forum are you?
  I'm really addicted to that game. I even have a stupid playthrough of it on Youtube when I got bored...totally not worth it since my PC kept crashing trying to record 720p video.
  So I just rushed through the game hitting things with a sledgehammer and finished at level 11..not the way to play the game 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I also love Uncharted 2. I've finished it so many times now I've gotten sick of it. I still need to torture myself and beat the first one on crushing mode.
  
  Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> Yeah it was fun MLE. I'll add you on the PS3 as well. Do you have MW2 on the PS3? How about Medal of Honor?
> 
> Also my PSN ID is _SaiyanElite87. _
> 
> I also have a Youtube channel here that has a lot of gameplay videos > http://www.youtube.com/user/SaiyanElite87


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uncharted 2 is so friggin amazing. I love the campaign.


----------



## tdockweiler

I love the combat in that. So much fun and feels more like real life than what most FPSs are like. in the old games it was just stand there or move around and try not to get hit by a bullet..at least some new FPSs added a cover system.
   
  I always re-play the Monastery level over and over. There's one area there that killed me about a dozen times on Crushing on the first playthrough, but now I could probably do it without dying. Uncharted 2 on Crushing is like Uncharted 1 on hard I guess. Thank god Uncharted 2 didn't have any Jet Ski sections! Driving upstream while being shot at is not my idea of fun.
   
  I never thought anything could top Half Life 2, but Uncharted 2 and FO3 sure did. FO3 I probably spent 300 hours in over several years..quite sad. And to think this was even after my addiction to Final Fantasy XI/Online. That game was like crack.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Uncharted 2 is so friggin amazing. I love the campaign.


----------



## kingice10

COD 4:MW2 has larger maps compared to COD:BO, only that some skills are limited in Black Ops, like knifing is very slow and with limited area...I'm a knifer and a fast runner guy in COD4: MW2 but in COD:BO, I cannot do that. For me, speed is my preference on both games. I seldom, hide or lure enemy to win in TDM.


----------



## KuKuBuKu

Quote: 





kingice10 said:


> *COD 4:MW2* has larger maps compared to COD:BO, only that some skills are limited in Black Ops, like knifing is very slow and with limited area...I'm a knifer and a fast runner guy in COD4: MW2 but in COD:BO, I cannot do that. For me, speed is my preference on both games. I seldom, hide or lure enemy to win in TDM.


 

 lolwat. Also knifing was nerfed due to commando pro.


----------



## Zombie_X

I use "Zombie_X" everywhere I register so chances are that it's me. On the FO3 forum that is not me. I'm not a fan of FO3...
   
  I also love Uncharted 2 and am currently replaying it and recording it for my youtube channel.
  
  And yeah I hate the commando perk. I do love the pro version for no fall damage though 
   
  Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> You're not the same Zombie_x from the Fallout 3 forum are you?
> I'm really addicted to that game. I even have a stupid playthrough of it on Youtube when I got bored...totally not worth it since my PC kept crashing trying to record 720p video.
> So I just rushed through the game hitting things with a sledgehammer and finished at level 11..not the way to play the game
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm referring to the awesome maps is CoD 4: Modern Warfare, not Modern Warfare 2 which had some pretty big maps, though Black Ops has ridiculously large and convoluted maps.

I'm about to get on some Black Ops in about 30 or so minutes.


----------



## Katun

I kinda wish you could hear how amazing Bad Company 2 sounds with a nice set of headphones. It would blow you away.


----------



## Zombie_X

BFBC2 sounds insane with the T1's man. Love them a lot with games, though I prefer speakers for gaming.
  
  Quote: 





katun said:


> I kinda wish you could hear how amazing Bad Company 2 sounds with a nice set of headphones. It would blow you away.


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





zombie_x said:


> BFBC2 sounds insane with the T1's man. Love them a lot with games, though I prefer speakers for gaming.


 

 Couldn't imagine. That would be pretty amazing. I love how good headphones give you such an edge in that game, especially when camping a house.


----------



## Ra97oR

BFBC2 simply got one of the best sound I have heard from any game, I have it setted to "Home Theatre" found it have a edge on dynamic range and imaging over the "Hi-Fi" settings, where "Wartape" is just over done and terrible, not sure why that many liked it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

katun said:


> I kinda wish you could hear how amazing Bad Company 2 sounds with a nice set of headphones. It would blow you away.




My roomie has BC2. I played a little. The sound is amazing. 

I think people like War Tapes because it's 'fun' sounding, though not exactly helpful.


Played Blops again with Zombie. We had so much fun he was supposed to leave like 5 games before.


----------



## BlutoSlice

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> BFBC2 simply got one of the best sound I have heard from any game, I have it setted to "Home Theatre" found it have a edge on dynamic range and imaging over the "Hi-Fi" settings, where "Wartape" is just over done and terrible, not sure why that many liked it.


 

 Spot on, Bad Company 2 sound engine is one of if not the best around.  And Battlefield 3 will improve even further.
   
  For BFBC2 I like home theater (5.1) with sound quality on high mode, with Dolby headphone mode 1 (Essence STX). 
   
  Wartapes is is overly compressed pile of ugly to my ears.


----------



## Eric_C

Hey guys, I got a friend getting into Xbox Live for the first time. He's an IEM-only guy, so I thought it'd be sweet to connect a 3rd-party mic for voice chat. What are the options for doing sth like that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.nox-audio.com/Products/Negotiator-12

http://steelseries.com/products/consoles/steelseries-spectrum-audio-mixer-xb

http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp/mixamp-usb (follow the link also for the 5.8 which is a wireless version)

http://www.trittonusa.com/index.php/products/gaming_audio_technology/ax-720/ (this one comes with the box AND headset)


The last 2 links will give you Dolby Headphone, for that virtual surround most of us are raving about. The first two links are stereo only, but are cheaper. I'd personally choose the Astro Mixamps.

BTW, though I don't find IEMs ideal for console gaming, I did find the Hifiman RE0 to work exceptionally well for gaming, especially with Dolby Headphone. Like a baby K701, without the soundstage.


----------



## Eric_C

Thanks MLE, that was a really quick reply. I'll look into those options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I happened to be on (just got home). XD

There are cheaper options still, but they won't have voice and game volume mixing, and sound quality will also be inferior to what you're getting here.


----------



## chicolom

Just save up and get this bad boy and be done.
   
  http://cgi.ebay.com/Headphone-Headset-Converter-Adaptor-Xbox-360-Xbox360-/260750646510?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3cb5f31cee
   
  For bonus lolz read the instructions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. Yeah, that's be a quick and painless route if you're just trying to hook up a mic... though I'm sure the SQ is gonna be lacking... But anyways.


----------



## chicolom

I'm confused as to how the Nox and Steelseries devices work.  Are they grabbing stereo game audio it from the controller somehow??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't looked into it, but I assume it connects to the the 360's audio out... whatever it may be. I dunno.


----------



## Eric_C

Haha...you guys...
  Steel Series' Spectrum looks the best bet, at the moment. They've got local distributors in Singapore, so it should be easier to get hold of the product.
  So let me see if I understand this right: the Spectrum taps into both the chat audio out of the controller, and the game audio from the system (via male-to-female RCA adapter that sits in between console's RCA plugs and TV's ports?), yes? I.e.:
   
  Xbox 360 ---RCA---> Spectrum's RCA adapter --> 1. TV/amp
                                                                     L--> 2. Spectrum Audio Mixer (at controller)
   
  Edit: found a video that seems to detail the Spectrum setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xha1H6odOo8


----------



## chicolom

Ya, both devices have to pull audio directly from the 360, which makes sense. 
   
  They're actually messier than a mixamp cable wise IMO, as your controller is tethered to your console and your headset, instead of just your amp...
  And your controllers got that fat dongle hanging off it with cables coming out in 3-4 directions


----------



## chicolom




----------



## chicolom

Head-fi ate my posts :'(


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's why I think the AX720 has the best setup. 

I just blame the stupid fact that you have to run a cable from the controller to the amps for voice chat. It's a hassle, which is why I tend to not play with voice chat.


----------



## Eric_C

Goooood grief it's really going to look like Cthulhu all over the gaming room floor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, gaming with headphones on the 360 specifically isn't exactly the cleanest setup.

The easiest one as I mentioned before is the AX720, where everything is ran to the Decoder Box (which you leave near the 360), and only one cable goes from the box to you, and one from the cable's puck to the controller for voice chat, that's it. Though if you're not using the included headset, then it's gonna be the IEMs to the cable, and the mic to the cable, as well as the one from the controller to the cable.

It's as clutered as it sounds... @_@




The "cable' I'm mentioning is the AX720 cable that has a puck on it with all the controls and inputs you need.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I just blame the stupid fact that you have to run a cable from the controller to the amps for voice chat. It's a hassle, which is why I tend to not play with voice chat.


 

  
  Yep, thats a design limitation of the 360, _requiring _all voice to pass through the controller.  The controllers just sending it wirelessly to the xbox anyways.  We'll have to wait for the next-gen xbox for a better design...
   
  Speaking of which, I hope the designers of the next Xbox take a good hard look at headphone/headset gaming and factor that in when they designing the hardware and software (*hint* license dolby headphone).


----------



## Eric_C

MS clearly only thought of headsets + speakers when they designed the audio for XBL. Sigh.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> MS clearly only thought of headsets + speakers when they designed the audio for XBL. Sigh.


 


  Ya, they weren't very forward thinking in that regard.  They made their dinky communicator headset and stopped at that. 
   
  Microsoft taken note of the recent explosion in gaming headsets though (which Astro + MLG played a large role in IMO).  Microsofts making some licensed partnerships with Tritton/MadCatz in the gaming headset space b/c they want in the action now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your damn avatar is still unsettling. XD


----------



## chicolom

I wish I could make it my xbox gamerpic   I'd probably get a lot of hatemail/jealous envy.


----------



## chicolom

-- "Get Roflpwned Noob!!"     
      --  "What?!! His HPX's beat my $1700 Headzone 5.1 Surround System!!!"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LMAO. Dude, I can totally picture this happening. XD


----------



## calpis

The Steelseries audio mixer blows chunks, like major ones. As soon as it gets powered, you are greeted with an overwhelming amount of static. You will not be able to hear footsteps over the static. I really can't express how bad the product is besides saying that I returned it within 18hrs of buying it. There is no saving that piece of crap.
   
  The Nox audio would have been awesome but you have to use the included usb decoder in order to use the mixer. The mixer attaches to the soundcard/dongle with a 5pin usb cable. I looked into it because I wanted to use it with my harman kardon receiver but there's no way to hook it up to my receiver.
   
  Stick to astro or tritton if you want to mix in chat audio with game audio. For me though, I just plug a mic directly into my controller and set my voice preferences to output audio to my speakers while I use my Ultrasone Hfi-2200 with DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So much, just to get it all to work. Sigh. I feel your pain.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





calpis said:


> The Steelseries audio mixer blows chunks, like major ones. As soon as it gets powered, you are greeted with an overwhelming amount of static. You will not be able to hear footsteps over the static. I really can't express how bad the product is besides saying that I returned it within 18hrs of buying it. There is no saving that piece of crap.
> 
> The Nox audio would have been awesome but you have to use the included usb decoder in order to use the mixer. The mixer attaches to the soundcard/dongle with a 5pin usb cable. I looked into it because I wanted to use it with my harman kardon receiver but there's no way to hook it up to my receiver.
> 
> Stick to astro or tritton if you want to mix in chat audio with game audio. For me though, I just plug a mic directly into my controller and set my voice preferences to output audio to my speakers while I use my Ultrasone Hfi-2200 with DH.


 


  Thank you, from the bottom of my gamer's heart. That saved me a ton of time, money and disappointment--especially since I was thinking of buying the Audio Mixer as a gift.
   
  Which mic do you use, that plugs into the 360 controller?


----------



## Croozer

I almost got caught up in the Astro A40 system hype till I realized I have a perfectly good pair of Denon D2K's, why invest in another pair of cans?

I'm gonna pick up the wireless Astro mixamp and rock the D2Ks.

What are people using for a mic with these headphones?, I don't chat much while gaming but sometimes I do need a mic.


----------



## tdockweiler

Anyone tried the Superlux HD668B for gaming? How is it? It might be a cheap option because it's only $40-$50.
  I imagine the soundstage is probably comparable to that of the Semi-Open AKG K240 Studio, which is nothing special.
   
  On the Superlux website it says it's frequency response is similar to the DT-990. Maybe they have too much bass for gaming.
   
  I hope it's mids are more forward than those of the DT-990 I had.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Anyone tried the Superlux HD668B for gaming? How is it? It might be a cheap option because it's only $40-$50.
> I imagine the soundstage is probably comparable to that of the Semi-Open AKG K240 Studio, which is nothing special.
> 
> On the Superlux website it says it's frequency response is similar to the DT-990. Maybe they have too much bass for gaming.
> ...


 


  I've been curious about that as well.  I get the feeling the soundstage will be just medium sized - K240 ish.  But it wouldn't hurt to try them....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

croozer said:


> I almost got caught up in the Astro A40 system hype till I realized I have a perfectly good pair of Denon D2K's, why invest in another pair of cans?
> 
> I'm gonna pick up the wireless Astro mixamp and rock the D2Ks.
> 
> What are people using for a mic with these headphones?, I don't chat much while gaming but sometimes I do need a mic.




Problem is, the D2000 might have too much bass to hear the subtle details you need to hear. That's why I recommend a nice fun headphone like your D2000 as well as a balanced to slightly bass light headphone for when you're being more competitive.

As for mics, the Deal Extreme clip on mic (like $3 or less), works as good as the mic on my PC360. No kidding.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I use D2Ks for gaming (with Astro Mixamp 5.8) and I can't say i agree with you about missing the subtle details.  The only time that may actually be an issue is if you're using the bass boost feature on the mixamp, but short of that I've had no trouble picking up plenty of detail with my setup. I think Croozer is in for a treat -- he can always get another set of headphones down the line if he feels like you do about it though.  In the end, it's all about personal preference.  
   
  Your post reminded me that I bought one of those deal extreme clip ons but haven't bothered to try it out yet!  Gotta remember where I put it now....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have no doubt the D2K will perform well for all purposes. What I mean is that for the more competitive types (like me), less bass will allow even beter detail retrieval. My D7000 is great for gaming, but I prefer the PC360 or HE4 as the bass on those won't distract me. A leaner and quicker bass impact will let you hear those subtle details through the bass better than full and powerful bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how many of you gamers love your video game soundstracks, and also video game remixes, but a humongous portion of my music library comes from

http://ocremix.org/

You will only find FLAC from the full video game albums, but most of the mp3s are 160-192, and don't sound anywhere near anything but crystal clear.

In any case, my current obsession is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Ri9PcmpyI

Blue Skies by BLIND. A remix to 'Will To Fight' from FFXIII. They just released this song on OCR yesterday. So epic.

I posted this here, since you guys are my gaming buddies. Listening to this off the HE4 is bliss. The air produced by the HE4 makes this song shine ever slightly moreso than on my D7000.

Also it's true what they say, spending hours with one headphone and changing it to another pair usually makes the fresher pair sound bad. Like today, everything sounds muddy and muffled on my D7000, since I got so used to the bright sig on the HE4. Yesterday, it was the other way around. The D7000 sounded perfect, and when I put on the HE4, it all sounded so harsh and super treble oriented.

So if you're ever comparing two headphones... well keep that in mind.


----------



## Eric_C

OCRemix rocks my socks. It singlehandedly caused "video game soundtracks" to be my new fave genre.
   
  Have you guys checked out the Sonic and Golden Axe soundtracks?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My fave remix album has to be Final Fantasy VII: Voices Of The Lifestream, because it's a remix of my fave game universe ever, FFVII. So much win in that album.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My fave remix album has to be Final Fantasy VII: Voices Of The Lifestream, because it's a remix of my fave game universe ever, FFVII. So much win in that album.


 


  Wow, we have too much in common. I've owned/tried almost every single headphone in your guide with the same results (D7000,AD700 <3), and have all the same amps. And Final Fantasy VII is the best game of all time, plus that album is incredible


----------



## Croozer

mad lust envy said:


> As for mics, the Deal Extreme clip on mic (like $3 or less), works as good as the mic on my PC360. No kidding.




Thanx, I will look into one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> Wow, we have too much in common. I've owned/tried almost every single headphone in your guide with the same results (D7000,AD700 <3), and have all the same amps. And Final Fantasy VII is the best game of all time, plus that album is incredible




Cool beans! Lol. Yeah, as stereotypical as it is, I'm a huge FFVII fanboy. More than I care to admit to people IRL. Though I bet we don't have ONE thing in common: Yuffie is my fave character, followed very closely by Tifa. I'm also a huge Yuffentine-shipper. Though I won't bore you as to why I believe it works. Lol.

Croozer, the only problem with that mic is that it will take literally like a month from the date you order it. Still, it's a month wait for such an absurdly cheap and fully functional item.


----------



## Croozer

mad lust envy said:


> Croozer, the only problem with that mic is that it will take literally like a month from the date you order it. Still, it's a month wait for such an absurdly cheap and fully functional item.




I will just buy one local.

Thanx.


----------



## iHasCake

i still don't know why they won't release a PS3 version of FF7.  that game will probably make billions in 1 weekend...lol.
   
  anyways, has anyone tried the JVC-HA-RX700/900?  any predictions on how well they might work?  looking for a budget headphone for a friend.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> i still don't know why they won't release a PS3 version of FF7.  that game will probably make billions in 1 weekend...lol.
> 
> anyways, has anyone tried the JVC-HA-RX700/900?  any predictions on how well they might work?  looking for a budget headphone for a friend.


 
  I think it's coming, because Square Enix just lost a ton of money this fiscal year and they (hopefully) know how lucrative following up on that tech demo would be.
  
  I tried out a pair of RX700s. I thought they were good for music for the price, but I wouldn't use them for gaming. $30 closed headphones don't tend to have very good soundstage.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Thank you, from the bottom of my gamer's heart. That saved me a ton of time, money and disappointment--especially since I was thinking of buying the Audio Mixer as a gift.
> 
> Which mic do you use, that plugs into the 360 controller?


 

 I'm just using some random clip on mic w/ a mono plug that I found at a pawn shop. I connect it to my controller with with a Rocketfish 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter and that's it. The key to getting any mic to work with a 360 controller is to make sure you're sending the audio from the mic to the controller in MONO. Plugging in a mic with a stereo plug directly into the controller won't work well and you'll sound very faint. So if you have a stereo jack from something like the PC360 and want to plug it directly into the controller then you'll have to add a stereo to mono adapter then a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter before you plug it into the controller. The audio MUST be converted to mono somewhere in the chain of wires.
   
  I've been doing that for a couple years now and I've become quite accustomed to it. The amount of wires I have in total is about the same I would have using a mixamp so it isn't that messy. Also, I have that one Intec adapter but stopped using it because I'd just unplug my mic from my controller if I wanted to mute myself.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'm just using some random clip on mic w/ a mono plug that I found at a pawn shop. I connect it to my controller with with a Rocketfish 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter and that's it. The key to getting any mic to work with a 360 controller is to make sure you're sending the audio from the mic to the controller in MONO. Plugging in a mic with a stereo plug directly into the controller won't work well and you'll sound very faint. So if you have a stereo jack from something like the PC360 and want to plug it directly into the controller then you'll have to add a stereo to mono adapter then a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter before you plug it into the controller. The audio MUST be converted to mono somewhere in the chain of wires.
> 
> I've been doing that for a couple years now and I've become quite accustomed to it. The amount of wires I have in total is about the same I would have using a mixamp so it isn't that messy. Also, I have that one Intec adapter but stopped using it because I'd just unplug my mic from my controller if I wanted to mute myself.


 

  
  AWESOME. Thank you.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> i still don't know why they won't release a PS3 version of FF7.  that game will probably make billions in 1 weekend...lol.
> 
> anyways, has anyone tried the JVC-HA-RX700/900?  any predictions on how well they might work?  looking for a budget headphone for a friend.


 


  I've tried the RX900.  I thought it was a little muddy, and the soundstage was kind of all over the place and small. 
   
  Honestly, KSC75s would be better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

KSC75 for the budget gamer FTW.

No, seriously. Do it. Look at what I own, and believe me when I say that whenever I wanna relax when gaming, I use my KSC75, without any issue or feeling like I'm losing much. They're just that good.


----------



## tdockweiler

Have you tried the KSC35 yet? I guess it's just the Porta Pro driver, but I wonder if it sounds any different. I always preferred the KSC75 over the Porta Pro.
   
  I always felt one of the best $50 budget gaming headphones was the Beyer Dynamic DT-235. For being so cheap it's quite clear and has a decent soundstage.
  Unfortunately it's closed, but I just installed it's guts into an old Sennheiser HD-497 shell to convert it to being open. This has got to be the best classical headphone for $50 EVER!
   
  Can't wait to try it for gaming since it's soundstage is now HUGE! It also no longer has the bloated bass of the HD-497.
   
  The nice thing about the DT-235 is that there is a mod you can do to make the mids much more forward. It involves taping off some vent holes.
   
  I might buy one of those KSC35s, recable it with Mogami and attach it to my old Porta Pro headband.
   
  BTW I'm sure you know this, but you can attach the KSC75 to an ultra cheap Parts Express Mini Headphone headband. Probably not needed, but some people might prefer that.
   
  I recabled my KSC75 once with silver wire (had some left over) but it made everything sound too distant, but man was there some detail!!
   
  KSC75 is stupid easy to recable and it only costs a few dollars. It's almost as if Koss added little doors to the solder area. Took me about 30 seconds to rewire them. No joke!

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> KSC75 for the budget gamer FTW.
> 
> No, seriously. Do it. Look at what I own, and believe me when I say that whenever I wanna relax when gaming, I use my KSC75, without any issue or feeling like I'm losing much. They're just that good.


----------



## Eric_C

tdockweiler: How do you find the fit of the DT235? I had a 231/235 for a very brief period of time, but found them far too small to isolate any amount of ambient noise, and so I didn't keep them (had planned to use them as portable cans). Clear, but lacking bass too.
   
  I oughtta find out how much the KSC75 costs where I live. I'm sure plenty of gamers here would appreciate the recommend for home gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah I saw that. But I'm fine with them as is. I don't think they lack absolutely anything for what they are. The clip ons are hella comfy, so not even a headband is necessary for me. I'm a KSC75 fanboy. XD


----------



## chicolom

I actually tried that parts express headband mod.  It went from _no _pressure on ears (with clips), to pressure on ears (with headband).  So, less comfortable IMO and I went back to the clips.  
   
  I want to know how those comfort zone pad things feel on the portapros.  They look interesting.


----------



## tdockweiler

The DT-235 fits OK for me, but I'm not a fan of it's supra-aural pads at all. I actually converted them to being circumaural. The Sennheiser HD-203 pads actually fit! I use the Maxell DHP-II memory foam pads with mine. Once this is done, they actually turn into being bass heavy IMO, which doesn't make any sense to me! This is why I had to experiment with modding to get them to sound good with the over the ear pads.
   
  I guess I shouldn't call them bass heavy, but it was kind of bloated and just didn't sound good. Kind of like the AKG K44 without an EQ.
   
  With circumaural pads, the DT-235 is one of the most comfortable headphones there is that's portable.
   
  I wish the KSC75 was a tad more comfortable. I guess wearing glasses doesn't help!
   
   
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> tdockweiler: How do you find the fit of the DT235? I had a 231/235 for a very brief period of time, but found them far too small to isolate any amount of ambient noise, and so I didn't keep them (had planned to use them as portable cans). Clear, but lacking bass too.
> 
> I oughtta find out how much the KSC75 costs where I live. I'm sure plenty of gamers here would appreciate the recommend for home gaming.


----------



## staffy

update ended up getting the pc360 a week old £80 . liking them alot, so much more tweet and mid than me pc161, hearing things now in bc2 that i didn't with the old 1's. vol on the side just great, no more worring about inline vol failing. whats the thing that useley goes for me any way.
   
  Was thinking of getting e11/e9 or muse hybrid amp. i know alot saying don't really need but if makes little better plus another gadgit. well didn't go with any of them, impulse buy off ebay set of a30 with 5.8 mixamp used £100. ok don't need the a30 but the amp is that on its own from what i,ve seen. can always resell a30's. on a plus side should be able to hookup to tv for late night movies,


----------



## Headfonenut123

staffy said:


> update ended up getting the pc360 a week old £80 . liking them alot, so much more tweet and mid than me pc161, hearing things now in bc2 that i didn't with the old 1's. vol on the side just great, no more worring about inline vol failing. whats the thing that useley goes for me any way.
> 
> Was thinking of getting e11/e9 or muse hybrid amp. i know alot saying don't really need but if makes little better plus another gadgit. well didn't go with any of them, impulse buy off ebay set of a30 with 5.8 mixamp used £100. ok don't need the a30 but the amp is that on its own from what i,ve seen. can always resell a30's. on a plus side should be able to hookup to tv for late night movies,




I done same I got pair of pc 360 second hand on eBay for £72 awesome investment, they are my multiplayer headset of choice and that volume adjuster is great and my dt 990 I gonna mainly have just for single player and music


----------



## dadab12

So you guys wanted a review of the HD800 using it on MW2, well. I just got the HD800 2 days ago and all I can say from my brief playing time, it's pretty much perfect for competitive gaming, the positional cues are pinpoint, the bass is not overpowering, when helicopters were online They didn't interfere with catching positional cues, I could pinpoint when people were over me, behind me, in the bushes, from miles away I could pinpoint if someone was sniping at me from up above and exactly which position he was at and on what floor he was. I couldn't do that with the Pro 900 and it wasn't as clear as with the HD800.
  this is ofcourse using only stereo, I have yet to try it on Mixamp since I don't have it at the moment.
  Comparing the HD800 to the Ultrasone 900 is really simple, the Ultrasone has much more emphasized bass, the explosions are brutal, the helicopters when they are on are interfering with catching the positional cues, almost impossible.
  the soundstage on the Pro 900 is ridiculous compared to the HD800, to sum it up, the Ultrasone are more fun to me in terms of pure enjoyment considering all the massive explosions,gunshots and what not but the HD800 is for competitive and relaxing game, The hd800 in my opinion is almost perfect, and I adore the sound signature very much, really my cup of tea and I know it will get better!


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





dadab12 said:


> So you guys wanted a review of the HD800 using it on MW2, well. I just got the HD800 2 days ago and all I can say from my brief playing time, it's pretty much perfect for competitive gaming, the positional cues are pinpoint, the bass is not overpowering, when helicopters were online They didn't interfere with catching positional cues, I could pinpoint when people were over me, behind me, in the bushes, from miles away I could pinpoint if someone was sniping at me from up above and exactly which position he was at and on what floor he was. I couldn't do that with the Pro 900 and it wasn't as clear as with the HD800.
> this is ofcourse using only stereo, I have yet to try it on Mixamp since I don't have it at the moment.
> Comparing the HD800 to the Ultrasone 900 is really simple, the Ultrasone has much more emphasized bass, the explosions are brutal, the helicopters when they are on are interfering with catching the positional cues, almost impossible.
> the soundstage on the Pro 900 is ridiculous compared to the HD800, to sum it up, the Ultrasone are more fun to me in terms of pure enjoyment considering all the massive explosions,gunshots and what not but the HD800 is for competitive and relaxing game, The hd800 in my opinion is almost perfect, and I adore the sound signature very much, really my cup of tea and I know it will get better!


 
   
  You are at the utmost advantage my friend. Very few game with the HD800, and the majority of gamers don't even know what a headphone is...


----------



## dadab12

Yeah well, it's ridiculous but I wanna try it using the 7.1 on the mixamp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one person I know who has played with the HD800 + Mixamp came out as impressd with it as the K70x + Mixamp, but even better. That would make it a stellar gaming can for me, no question. Unfortunately, the HD800 is know as mid and treble oriented, with bass not on par, so that alone would keep me from spending that much on them. Not my kind of sound sig, though I'm sure they are amazing at what their strengths do.


----------



## dadab12

they improved the bass in newer models. I like the bass more than the Ultrasone pro 900. it's quality is superb for me


----------



## Croozer

Does the Astro mixamp accept a 1/4" headphone jack?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, you will need an adapter.


----------



## ArcKade

Hello all, long time lurker first time poster! 
   
  Just wanted to chime in and say due to this thread, and many many hours of reading, I have just ordered a pair of DT990/600s and a MixAmp! SO excited to get them in the mail! Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and input. My walled does weep at future purchases surely to come from this forum!


----------



## Phos

How is the noise floor on the mixamp?  The DSS has a pretty obvious noise floor.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





phos said:


> How is the noise floor on the mixamp?  The DSS has a pretty obvious noise floor.


 


  What headphones are you using with them?  Some headphones (high sensitivity + treble emphasis) will highlight noise more than others.
   
  The Mixamp 5.8 is slightly quieter, but the _wired _mixamp is very quiet.  There's really no audible background noise with it.
   
  If I'm actually _playing_ a game, and not paused or loading, I don't take much issue with the noise.


----------



## Zombie_X

Exactly. If you tried Grado's on them such as the SR-60i you would hear some static of hiss. Low sensitivity headphones like the K601 and K701/K702 won't have any noise at all.
   
  Do not exclude your source from inducing noise as well. If using on the PC you may get some noise from the PSU on the PC. I have not run into this before as I have an aftermarket PSU on my PC but I suspect cheaper ones can do this.
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What headphones are you using with them?  Some headphones (high sensitivity + treble emphasis) will highlight noise more than others.
> 
> The Mixamp 5.8 is slightly quieter, but the _wired _mixamp is very quiet.  There's really no audible background noise with it.
> 
> If I'm actually _playing_ a game, and not paused or loading, I don't take much issue with the noise.


----------



## Croozer

mad lust envy said:


> No, you will need an adapter.




OK, I just copped a pair of D7000's and I was gonna try them out with the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A simple 1/4" to 3.5mm plug or cable will work. I recommend a cable, as the inputs on the mixamps don't hold robust plugs too well.


----------



## Phos

I was actually asking about the noise floor to compare it to the DSS.  The DSS has a pretty prominent noise floor with ATH-AD700's


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





phos said:


> I was actually asking about the noise floor to compare it to the DSS.  The DSS has a pretty prominent noise floor with ATH-AD700's


 


  I know, I've tried them all with the AD700s.  The wired mixamp has the lowest noise floor.
   
  Wired mixamp > Mixamp 5.8 > DSS


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Where does the AX720 go? Hisses more than the DSS or less? It's hissy, for sure.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Where does the AX720 go? Hisses more than the DSS or less? It's hissy, for sure.


 

  
  Not sure, I've never heard the AX720. How much more does it hiss than the Mixamp 5.8?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Definitely more, but I wouldn't say it's a dealbreaker. Where the 5.8 hisses at loud volumes, the AX720 ALWAYS hisses. Though when you're busy playing, the hiss shouldn't be an issue unless you just wanna nitpick. Probably just a tad more than the 5.8's loudest.


----------



## Alghazanth

I'm going to post a big review here later on all the headphones in my profile. For anyone who is curious, the Tesla T1's are the best gaming headphone ever. If you happen to have the money, go for it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Definitely more, but I wouldn't say it's a dealbreaker. Where the 5.8 hisses at loud volumes, the AX720 ALWAYS hisses. Though when you're busy playing, the hiss shouldn't be an issue unless you just wanna nitpick. Probably just a tad more than the 5.8's loudest.


 

  
  Hmm.. that sounds like the AX720 might hiss more than the DSS. 
   
  The Mixamp 5.8 actually hisses louder than the DSS when they both go past >60% volume and beyond.  The DSS never reaches 5.8 at loudest volume hiss, but it doesn't quite reach 5.8 at lowest volume hiss either. 
   
   
_   _Normal hiss on the DSS      =  Mixamp 5.8 master volume in between *12 and 1 o'clock* --> i.e., when it _just_ starts to hit the amplification hiss
_   _Maximum hiss on the DSS  =  Mixamp 5.8 master volume in between *1 and 2 o'clock*
          - Those are with the Mixamp 5.8 set to 50/50 game voice balance ^.
          - The DSS maximum hiss is definitely less than anything past 2 o'clock on the 5.8 at 50/50 balance.
   
  Makes me wonder if the DSS would be a better preamp than the 5.8 , since its quieter at its louder volumes near the line out levels.


----------



## Alghazanth

Why does the FiiO E7 do absolutely nothing for me? I've tried 10 different headphones, and the max volume/hiss is exactly the same as when plugged straight into my Mixamp 5.8. I'm plugging the included 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable into the E7 and into the mixamp, then the headphone itself into the E7. What's wrong here?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't feel bad. The E7 has a very low decibel boost. I've been telling people for ages that the E5/E7 are NOT worthy as additional volume boosting for the Mixamps. You should use the E9 for that purpose, not the E7.


----------



## Ra97oR

Am I the only one that uses high-end Audio-Technicas to game or someone else out there does it too?

I found the W5000 have the best presentation of ambient sound, warzone rumbles, gunfire from distance sounds great. They are awesome for RTS gaming. The positioning is great on them too, but they seems to diffuse a bit compare to being a pin point source.

AD1000PRM is just too awesome for FPS, positioning is pin-point and sense of depth and distances is very noticeable. It is so noticeable that I can accurately shoot through walls with sound (got me banned from a few servers due to that). The low bass quantity is great for games with chaotic battlefield, like TF2 and such. Downside of this is that it does not sound as full as more bassy headphones.

My A2000X is still burning in, but so far it is very similar to the AD1000PRM in games, not sure will the sound changes further.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> Am I the only one that uses high-end Audio-Technicas to game or someone else out there does it too?
> 
> I found the W5000 have the best presentation of ambient sound, warzone rumbles, gunfire from distance sounds great. They are awesome for RTS gaming. The positioning is great on them too, but they seems to diffuse a bit compare to being a pin point source.
> 
> ...


 

 FWIW, I very nearly got a A900 for gaming, but chose a DT880 because...I wanted something that required amping. Haha. Don't judge me, it was my first proper full-sized.
   
  How critical are audio positioning cues for RTS? I would have thought that the mini map takes care of alerts.


----------



## Ra97oR

I cannot say for the A900, as I haven't heard them unamped, nor that they have impressed me. IMO the DT880 sounds quite a bit better. But the top end Audio Technica full-size sounds quite different amped and unamped, they need a current amplifier not a voltage amplifier. 

RTS's audio cue is important, sometimes you just busy with sometime direction of enemy fire being heard is useful, even more so in more realistic RTS where a wrong move can easily lose a valuable unit. It is not as important as it is in FPS, but it does help, however the most important part is how immersive the gameplay can be with decent audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't feel bad. That's a big reason why I got the HE4.


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Don't feel bad. That's a big reason why I got the HE4.


 

 Speaking of that, I think you would *really* like the HE-500, although I understand if you don't want to spend that much on top of your D7000 and HE-4. But man, it seems like it melds the HE-4 with a D2000 / HD650. The sound signature has so much more meat to it, and is a lot more full. Bass has been brought up a notch as well, as a result, probably the most perfect and balanced sound I've ever heard.


----------



## tdockweiler

I tried my Superlux HD-668B out with gaming last night. Pretty terrible. I don't understand how people can say these are balanced! Yeah, maybe if you consider the DT-990 to have a balanced sound! To me, these headphones are all treble and bass. The mids seem to like to hide somewhere. Footsteps? Forget it. They're so hard to hear and when you hit something with a sledgehammer the sound feels as if it's covered up by a blanket. I wish I was kidding. The detail is there, but it's just hard to hear. The mids are just so recessed. I'm not a fan of this headphone at all. I love my mids and this headphone doesn't have good mids. The soundstage was only comparable to a K240 Studio. If you want a better alternative to the 668B spend a little more and use the those instead. Maybe the Superlux clone of it is better? Probably so.
   
  I then tried the KRK KNS-6400. Despite being closed, it was far, far better. Balanced sound and the mids are it's main focus. Tons of detail and everything is so easy to hear. The soundstage is actually quite good for being closed and feels better than the 8400. I'd take this over the HD-668B any day.
   
  I do find my Koss Pro DJ 100 to be even better. The mids are quite a bit more forward and seems to have the same amount of detail of the KRK KNS-6400. It just has a lot more bass and less treble. The soundstage is also much larger, but the sound probably isn't as clear as the KRK. DJ100 might be a more fatiguing.
   
  Of course I still prefer the K601, but the KRK KNS-6400 ($99) is a nice option. It's actually not that much worse than the $150 KRK KNS-8400. Both are studio monitors that don't have tons of bass, but have good mids and treble and a very clear sound. Perfect for competitive gaming where you don't need or want a lot of bass and a closed headphone is required.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I think it's because it's been brought up countless of times by now head-fi are dominated by "trebleheads" that ofc find what they think sound optimal is neutral because many people got it in their head that neutral is the ideal when it probably isn't (being unaware of it and they want a little more/less highs or bass than a perfect flat response for example) and assumes the slightly non-flat response flat because it sounds so good to them. 
   
  Would be very interesting to know what's the AVERAGE IDEAL frequency response (as in what the person *subjectively* finds optimal sounding) for the human ear/brain, I don't think that would be quite flat, probably gently V-shaped.


----------



## Croozer

alghazanth said:


> For anyone who is curious, the Tesla T1's are the best gaming headphone ever. If you happen to have the money, go for it.




LOL, I sure would hope so for the price you are gonna pay.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I tried my Superlux HD-668B out with gaming last night. Pretty terrible. I don't understand how people can say these are balanced! Yeah, maybe if you consider the DT-990 to have a balanced sound! To me, these headphones are all treble and bass. The mids seem to like to hide somewhere. Footsteps? Forget it. They're so hard to hear and when you hit something with a sledgehammer the sound feels as if it's covered up by a blanket. I wish I was kidding. The detail is there, but it's just hard to hear. The mids are just so recessed. I'm not a fan of this headphone at all. I love my mids and this headphone doesn't have good mids. The soundstage was only comparable to a K240 Studio. If you want a better alternative to the 668B spend a little more and use the those instead. Maybe the Superlux clone of it is better? Probably so.
> 
> I then tried the KRK KNS-6400. Despite being closed, it was far, far better. Balanced sound and the mids are it's main focus. Tons of detail and everything is so easy to hear. The soundstage is actually quite good for being closed and feels better than the 8400. I'd take this over the HD-668B any day.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Thanks for that superlux 668B review.  My curiosity in them has been un-piqued


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





croozer said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, relax. Did I pinch a nerve because I said I prefer the T1's over the D7000s in that other thread? Sorry big guy.


----------



## Phos

To my ears, the hiss in the DSS is 100% from the amp section, and doesn't vary at all with the volume knob. 
   
  And someone asked about A900's for gaming?  I don't have much experience with them out off my DSS, but using CMSS it was hard to tell whether a sound was coming from in front of me or behind me.  When I get back home at the end of the week I'll try firing them up with my DSS and I should be able to give you a better answer.


----------



## Alghazanth

I bought some LCD-2's off Head-Fi to try out, I'm actually really curious how they're going to sound for gaming. Could be amazing or absolutely awful, I have no idea


----------



## Croozer

alghazanth said:


> Wow, relax. Did I pinch a nerve because I said I prefer the T1's over the D7000s in that other thread? Sorry big guy.




LOL, I have no problem with you or your opinion but it seemed a little outta place in a dedicated D7K thread.

Its all good.


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> I bought some LCD-2's off Head-Fi to try out, I'm actually really curious how they're going to sound for gaming. Could be amazing or absolutely awful, I have no idea


 
   
  LCD-2 for gaming? That should be interesting! You'll have to report on your findings.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm selling my HE4, Lyr, and D7000. Financial reasons. Looks like I'll be a PC360 and KSC75 guy for a while.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





katun said:


> LCD-2 for gaming? That should be interesting! You'll have to report on your findings.


 

 Yea, definitely. In fact, I'll do a mega review of them+ all the cans you see in my profile here once I get the LCD-2s.
   
  MLE, about the E7. I got it for the mixamp because of this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/495341/fiio-e5-headphone-amplifier-with-the-astro-mixamp/15 I wanted to use the D7000s with my wireless mixamp and not get all the hiss. I can't use my E9 since it's on my computer desk and I have the wireless mixamp with me on the recliner when console gaming... unless the E9 can be plugged into the TX unit? Regardless, if that guy saw improvements with the E5, shouldn't I see SOMETHING with the E7? I mean, even a tiny boost in volume? They're only 25ohm headphones after all. I'm forced to resort to my AD700s or Turtle Beach PX5's for when I'm online gaming w/ a mic, which is 99% of the time now. There's just too much static when you mix game and voice up high (D7000) or one of them will simply be too quiet (All the beyerdynamics).


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm selling my HE4, Lyr, and D7000. Financial reasons. Looks like I'll be a PC360 and KSC75 guy for a while.


 

 Oh no, I'm sorry. Would you consider getting the D2000 for your full sized headphone once things looked more stable?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm selling my HE4, Lyr, and D7000. Financial reasons. Looks like I'll be a PC360 and KSC75 guy for a while.


 


  Aw


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm selling my HE4, Lyr, and D7000. Financial reasons. Looks like I'll be a PC360 and KSC75 guy for a while.


 


  I'm very sorry to read that, mate. All the best!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh it's cool. Money's a little tight, but I'll get by. Selling this stuff will alleviate it a bit. If anything, I know I'll be getting the D7000 later on again and probably just stick to those and my KSC75.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh it's cool. Money's a little tight, but I'll get by. Selling this stuff will alleviate it a bit. If anything, I know I'll be getting the D7000 later on again and probably just stick to those and my KSC75.


 


  Hope everything works out for you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Lyr has been sold already, lol. I really need the HE4 to sell. The D7000 can wait...


----------



## Proglover

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My Lyr has been sold already, lol. I really need the HE4 to sell. The D7000 can wait...


 


  It's a shame I didn't choose an amp that could power orthos (don't get me wrong, I'm happy with my choice, but that rules HE-4/5/6 out)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My E9 powers it fine, but they definitely sound more alive on the Lyr.


----------



## Phos

I've been considering an HE-4, but I'd probably prefer a solid state amp.  I know I could do some funny business with a receiver, but I only have the room for a headphone amp sized device.  Is there anything like this that can really power orthos?


----------



## Ra97oR

There are plenty of high powered SS amp, my current amp does nearly 4000mW out on a 16Ohms load.


----------



## scaz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm selling my HE4, Lyr, and D7000. Financial reasons. Looks like I'll be a PC360 and KSC75 guy for a while.


 

 Just remeber it's cheaper to keep it than to sell it and buy it later.
   
  By the way this is a great thread.  Thanks for the info.  I don't have alot of different headphones and I got a HD-650 like 4 years ago with a zero and I have loved it.  I wish I had more headphones to try and a better amp, but I have a kid and one on the way so my fun budget when bye bye, but now I am older and make more money.


----------



## shamrock134

Anyone else tried the DT770 Premium 32ohm for gaming w/DH?
   
  I've just got one and it seems pretty decent in CSS. It barely has any bass so could it be superior to the Pro/80 for competitive purposes?
   
  I'd still like to try the AD700/K701/HD598 as I really want the best directional/positional accuracy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, once my HE4 sells, the only can I'm buying back in the future may be the D7000. I'm gonna keep it very simple from now on. One headset, one music/movie can, one comfort can (KSC75). All aren't hard to drive, so my E9 is plenty, so no more need for a beast amp like the Lyr.

Coincidentally, been using the HE4 with the E9 all last night and I don't miss the Lyr at all. The E9 brings out more of the mids and lessens the control of the sub bass (the Lyr controls it so much sometimes it feels like it could use more sub bass), so it works better for bass heavy music. The Lyr has more mid bass, and a more realistic sound, but if I only had the E9 for the HE4, I would still recommend it over the K701, DT880/DT990 and all the other mid fi cans I have owned. The HE4 is that good, even through the E9.

The DT770/32 should be a stellar gaming can, as it has most if not all that makes t

The MMX300 one of the best headsets... its practically a DT770/32 with a mic.


----------



## Phos

I know you're a basshead, so I'd like to know what you think of the bass out of the HE-4. 
   
  I'm also thinking that it might be a good idea to make recordings comparing CMSS to Dolby headphone, though I'm not sure what way would be the best.  Playing back a TF2 replay with a loopback is the best way I can think of.  Maybe even a toslink loopback? 
   
  Quote: 





ra97or said:


> There are plenty of high powered SS amp, my current amp does nearly 4000mW out on a 16Ohms load.


 

 Would the AudioGD FUN be able to handle orthos?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote:


phos said:


> Would the AudioGD FUN be able to handle orthos?


 

 If the specs are honest it should handle anything short of the HE-6 unless you combine earsplitting volume with insane EQ.


----------



## calpis

Just bought an Ultrasone HS-15 off of ebay, it's basically their HFi-15g (which I also have) with a boom mic. I've been using the hfi-15g instead of my hfi-2200 in black ops for the past few days and found them to be very comparable. The 15g has much less bass than the 2200 which helped a lot. The 15g is also super light weight and I do forget that I have them on. I can't wait for my HS-15 to come in so I can stop using a clip on mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

phos said:


> I know you're a basshead, so I'd like to know what you think of the bass out of the HE-4.
> 
> I'm also thinking that it might be a good idea to make recordings comparing CMSS to Dolby headphone, though I'm not sure what way would be the best.  Playing back a TF2 replay with a loopback is the best way I can think of.  Maybe even a toslink loopback?
> 
> ...




The HE4 has some addictive bass. It doesn't fill up the room like the D7000, but believe me, it is NOT lacking. It actually punches harder than the D7000, and can go very low. Currently enjoying it quite a bit just off my E9. Not as great as when it was with the Lyr, but even with just the E9, nothing comes close. Not the DT880, 990, K70x, etc. It's that freaking amazing. I'm half tempted on just keeping them even without the Lyr.

Played about 3 hours (I think) with Zombie_X on Black Ops tonight. I wish more of the Headfi crew would get on.

This makes me laugh... and cry. The chance of geting that is so rare, that you HAVE to ragequit.... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NB8db1STUY


----------



## Headfonenut123

Does anyone get clipping in the pc 360 with the wired mixamp?

Was playing bit of dead space 2 last night and there was alot of explosions etc going on and sound cut momentarily when things got hectic


----------



## crinacle

Could you try and see how S-Logic fares in gaming?


----------



## Zombie_X

It was fun playing and I'm uploading all 15 videos of our gameplay to youtube right now.
   
  If anyone is interested, my secondary youtube channel is > http://www.youtube.com/user/SaiyanElite87. I have all my CoD gameplay on there in 720P HD.
   
  Quote: 





			
				Mad Lust Envy said:
			
		

> /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Played about 3 hours (I think) with Zombie_X on Black Ops tonight. I wish more of the Headfi crew would get on.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Does anyone get clipping in the pc 360 with the wired mixamp?
> 
> Was playing bit of dead space 2 last night and there was alot of explosions etc going on and sound cut momentarily when things got hectic


 


  I think that that if there's too much stuff going on with dolby headphone it will overflow its buffer and make popping/clipping noises.  Iin order to minimize processing latency dolby headphone probably has a small buffer size to keep the lag minimal.  When too many sounds happen at once, it overflows the buffer size and that's when weird popping noises occur. 
   
  Its the same sound I get when playing a midi music keyboard through a computer and setting the latency as low as possible which reduces the available buffer size.  Then if you mash the keyboard with your arm and play all the notes, it makes the same popping noises because it overflows the buffer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Has anyone else experienced a sort of 'muffling' when playing through the Mixamps? Its always happened to me with a lot of my headphones. I play for awhile, then the clarity goesa through the crapper, and game audio becomes super muffled for a length of time. I used to think it was the headphones, but I have experienced it even with crystal clear cans like the K701.

Zombie, I'm gonna be checking our vids.


----------



## Zombie_X

Question for you guys. I have heard the Mix Amp is a pretty good headphone amp, but how good is it? I'd be willing to audition them for you guys and post a video review.


----------



## TMRaven

The mixamp clips for me every time I use it on the computer's line-out through the music streamer-- and clips really badly for some reason.  It does just fine on the ps3 though.


----------



## Zombie_X

I'll have to check one out then and see how it stacks up to my other amps. I think I'll have to do an HD unboxing/review video for it once the new Head-Fi policy is finalized.
  
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> The mixamp clips for me every time I use it on the computer's line-out through the music streamer-- and clips really badly for some reason.  It does just fine on the ps3 though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp is an awesome gaming amp, but only if you're okay with Dolby Headphone. No other reason to use it, other than voice mixing.


----------



## shamrock134

I still don't feel aware enough with these DT770/32s even if they are meant to be MMX300s without a mic. I think I actually miss my Senny 595's, I never got shot in the back with those babies!
   
  So I'm not sure what to get next, I don't want to keep buying headphones until I get the perfect gaming one. The AD700 seems to be a solid choice, but then if the 598 is anything like the 595 I'd be happy with that too.
   
  Any thoughts MLE?


----------



## ziocomposite

What do you guys play on?  ps3, 360, PC?  What's your gamertag if on the 360?


----------



## Ra97oR

Purely PC gamer, plays a lot of different games mainly fps still.


----------



## Phos

I mostly play on PC right now, the online stuff I play basically consist of TF2. I still can't figure out which steam name I need to share. I also play a bit of Forza 3 on 360. I need to try the DSS with that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

shamrock134 said:


> I still don't feel aware enough with these DT770/32s even if they are meant to be MMX300s without a mic. I think I actually miss my Senny 595's, I never got shot in the back with those babies!
> 
> So I'm not sure what to get next, I don't want to keep buying headphones until I get the perfect gaming one. The AD700 seems to be a solid choice, but then if the 598 is anything like the 595 I'd be happy with that too.
> 
> Any thoughts MLE?




If you don't need a mic, do yourself a favor and just get the HD598. Seriously.

I haven't heard the DT770/32 or MMX300, so I don't know how good their rear positioning is. All I know is that the DT770 Pro 80 as unbalanced as it was, had insane positioning abilities with Dolby Headphone. The DT770/600 I had was too wild to even judge fairly. A 20 out of 10 in bass quantity. It was overbearing, and I definitely thought something was wrong with them.


----------



## crinacle (Mar 25, 2021)

-


----------



## Alghazanth

AD700>HD598. Just grab yourself some AD700's for competitive and something else for for non competitive if you can. D7000 is the best non-competitive (single player, immersion, fun) headphone I've tried, and the AD700 is the best competitive gaming 'phone aside from the T1 and HD800, which are only slightly better and obviously not worth it for gaming alone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the HD598 to be more impressive than the AD700 as it doesn't sacrifice much of anything and works just as good. The AD700 sacrifices bass completely. I recommend the HD598 if you have the extra cash over the AD700.... easily.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I find the HD598 to be more impressive than the AD700 as it doesn't sacrifice much of anything and works just as good. The AD700 sacrifices bass completely. I recommend the HD598 if you have the extra cash over the AD700.... easily.


 
  I don't know what games you tested the 598's with, but they make the guns in Black Ops sound even more awful than usual, and their soundstage is smaller than the AD700. True, they have bass, but it's still very little. I'd get the AD700's+zalman mic and keep those for competitive gaming forever. Then find yourself some cans for noncompetitve fun and immersive gaming. There are many options depending on price range, and like I said, the D7000 is the best if you can afford it. It really is best to have two separate cans for SP/MP, as even the T1's aren't #1 for BOTH (D7000's have that orgasmic bass for SP). The D7000+AD700 is my favorite combo after much testing, and I even add in a 3rd, the TB PX5, for when I just want to kick back and play not too seriously with friends.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, seriously? Zalman is the WORST pile of rubbish I've ever owned. The Dealextreme clip on that cost me $2.50 is 100x better than the Zalman. Ugh.

Black Ops has terrible audio, regardless of headphones. I wouldn't EVER judge a headphone based on performance with that game. MW2, CoD4 and other games do much better. Anyways, AD700 is a one trick pony. I love them for what they do, but you can get 95% of their performance and better overall sound from the HD598. Yes, the AD700 soundstage is bigger, but the HD598 comes damn close, enough not to miss the AD700 soundstage, which is pretty much ALL they have going for them.

And the HD598 is close to bass neutral, while the AD700's bass isn't even enough to call bass light. Bass non-existent is more like it. Like tin cans.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude, seriously? Zalman is the WORST pile of rubbish I've ever owned. The Dealextreme clip on that cost me $250 is 100x beter than the Zalman. Ugh.


 

 I think you missed a decimal...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fixed. You didn't give me a chance. XD

My keyboard doesn't always input everything I type. Which is why you'll see beter instead of better, AD70 instead of AD700, etc. I hate this damn thing.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My keyboard doesn't always input everything I type. Which is why you'll see beter instead of better, AD70 instead of AD700, etc. I hate this damn thing.


 

 Maybe you should check out the keyboard-fi thread when your finances recover.  IMO, nothing beats good old buckling springs, but many other options are discussed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I know why my keyboard sucks. It's a 2.4ghz wireless Microsoft keyboard that I've had for ages. I could easily use my wired HP one that came with my PC, but I can't be arsed to add more wires... no scratch that, I WILL.... right now. This keyboard has been grating my nerves...

The HP keyboard worked perfectly and never missed any of my inputs.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude, seriously? Zalman is the WORST pile of rubbish I've ever owned. The Dealextreme clip on that cost me $2.50 is 100x better than the Zalman. Ugh.
> 
> Black Ops has terrible audio, regardless of headphones. I wouldn't EVER judge a headphone based on performance with that game. MW2, CoD4 and other games do much better. Anyways, AD700 is a one trick pony. I love them for what they do, but you can get 95% of their performance and better overall sound from the HD598. Yes, the AD700 soundstage is bigger, but the HD598 comes damn close, enough not to miss the AD700 soundstage, which is pretty much ALL they have going for them.
> 
> And the HD598 is close to bass neutral, while the AD700's bass isn't even enough to call bass light. Bass non-existent is more like it. Like tin cans.


 
  I don't know, I've had no issues with it. I clip it near the top of the cable and talk, and nobody has ever had any complaints. It picks up everything for me.
   
  Black Ops does have terrible audio, but it is my current "competitive" shooter as MW2 sucks now and I'm tired of CS:S and Battlefield. That's why I use it as my competitive gaming test.  Yes the AD700 is a one trick pony, but so is the HD598 to me. I'd only use it for competitive gaming if the AD700s and others didn't exist. I don't like it much for music nor single player (half decent bass vs no bass... pass on both). But that's why I've said repeatedly AD700's for competitive gaming only. But hell, if people are happy with the HD598 for single player, then by all means. Btw, you rated both cans the same in "fun".


----------



## Alghazanth

If you want a badass all-rounder at a relatively low price, get the D2000s and not the HD598s. Incredible for music, SP, and  good for MP (It's like DT880 w/o the rear issue but with bass muddying things up more than the D7000 but not an awful lot like the M50 or something).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hear contrary to that. Plenty of people saying how badly recessed the mids are on the D2000, which is a far cry from the mid rich HD598. I dunno about you, but I've tested so many headphones and headsets I can't even name them all. the HD598 deserves a top spot alongside the AD700 and K70x as competitive beasts, but the HD598 is even better for all around gaming. Owning the PC360 currently which are terrific and balanced for ALL purposes, it's saying a lot when I believe the HD598 to be even more superior to the PC360 sans the built in mic.

Also another point to say that on AVS, some prefer the PC360 to the PX5 as well... just saying.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I hear contrary to that. Plenty of people saying how badly recessed the mids are on the D2000, which is a far cry from the mid rich HD598. I dunno about you, but I've tested so many headphones and headsets I can't even name them all. the HD598 deserves a top spot alongside the AD700 and K70x as competitive beasts, but the HD598 is even better for all around gaming. Owning the PC360 currently which are terrific and balanced for ALL purposes, it's saying a lot when I believe the HD598 to be even more superior to the PC360 sans the built in mic.
> 
> Also another point to say that on AVS, some prefer the PC360 to the PX5 as well... just saying.


 
  I've tested about 70% of your main list and 4 or 5 you haven't. The D2000 has slightly recessed mids, and the D7000 has very slightly recessed mids. If you loved the DT990 though, no way would the D2000 mids be a problem for you, the DT990 is FAR worse in this regard (to the point of being not useable for me). I'm really not a Sennheiser fan outside of the HD800s though, and I've tried most of their premier cans. The PC360 is, IIRC, a 595 with a mic attached. I wouldn't want to use that for SP either after trying out other cans. After all my testing I simply know it's far better to use two cans for gaming (one of which is music, movies, and all noncompetitive, the other competitive). Actually, I was recently using the D7000s for everything and the PX5's for multiplayer gaming only when I need a mic(too much static w/ D7K), but it's the same idea. But if you must have one can, I stand by the D2000 being the cheapest one that does it all great as far as I've tried. The next closest would probably be the DT880 and even that's a big downgrade imo. But it's all obviously opinion. You should update your thread though since you seem to have changed views 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Only time I'd use any gaming headset now after trying all these audiophile cans is for when I want to kick back and relax and play with friends, which the wireless PX5 is more conducive to than the PC360's whose setup would be just like all of my other cans. Also the PX5 actually sounds surprisingly good on preset 4. It's still incredible for soundwhoring, in fact near or as good as the AD700, but for general sound quality it's trash obviously. Low frequency bass causes intense crackling... the drivers can't handle it.
   
  Also, nice Vincent avi.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Changed views? I still think the AD700 is the best competitive gaming can. However, for those looking into a little more balanced, the HD598 is a no brainer. If bass is still lacking, then I'd move on to the DT880 as long as the rear positioning is okay for the user.

I normally wouldn't ever consider closed headphones for all forms of gaming, not even the D7000. Open headphones just do gaming better. I've heard quite differently about the D2000 vs D7000, which I've seen comparisons say that the D2000 has some very noticeable mid recession in comparison.

The advantage the DT990 has over the D7000 (which I've heard side by side), is that the bass on the DT990 is a lot faster at decay so it's even less obtrusive. Mids may be recessed, but the fast decay greatly helps in still being able to pick out details. I love the D7000 more than any other headphone, but the slower, fuller bass is still not ideal even if it doesn't get in the way of the detail like typical bassy cans. The DT990 has it beat in this regard. No way is the D2000 gonna do bass better than the DT990 at not being distracting towards the detail, considering the D7000 doesn't even do that, and the D2000 is inferior to the D7000.

As I stated before, the mids on the DT990 are about as audible as on the DT880. Ridiculously similar to me, but the bass and treble are just more forward at similar levels. I think the mids on the DT990 are greatly exaggerated on here. To me mids are good, just the treble is TOO prominent for the most part.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Changed views? I still think the AD700 is the best competitive gaming can. However, for those looking into a little more balanced, the HD598 is a no brainer. If bass is still lacking, then I'd move on to the DT880 as long as the rear positioning is okay for the user.
> 
> I normally wouldn't ever consider closed headphones for all forms of gaming, not even the D7000. Open headphones just do gaming better. I've heard quite differently about the D2000 vs D7000, which I've seen comparisons say that the D2000 has some very noticeable mid recession in comparison.
> 
> ...


 

 I know, I already said the D2000 is worse than the D7000 in MP because the bass is even muddier. That said I still have no issues soundwhoring the crap out of people with the D7000s, I just know that I could do it a bit better with my AD700s because bass won't get in the way.
   
   
  I really don't know how you found the mids on the DT990 to not be ultra recessed but can say the D2Ks and even D7Ks suffer from that issue. Having A/B/C/D'd the D7K,D2K,990,880 the midrange is something like 100%>98%>90%>60% with 880>D7K>D2K>990. That said, you're making me want to try the 600ohm version of them more and more because maybe it's the 32ohm after all. Or we have completely different ears. And no, I'm not exaggerating on the mids at all. And it's not just the bass, I tested it with bass-light tracks too. Remember how perfect the DT990 would be for me otherwise.
   
  Edit: You've got me all curious so I'm going to go ahead and cop a pair of 600ohm DT990's and see how they do. Esp since I'' have the LCD-2's the same day. Here we go again


----------



## Alghazanth

By the way, I know I asked before, but what was your reason for selling the DT990s again?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, the mids on the DT990 are DEFINITELY not on par with the D7000. What I meant was that the bass on the DT990 gets in the way less than that on the D7000, so it evens out. That and the open design on the DT990 make it better for gaming and sound whoring for me. The DT880 is even better than the DT990 for all around gaming due to even better mids, but the rear positioning just left something to be desired. Not an issue for those gaming in normal stereo.

the reason I sold my DT990 was because I fell in love with the D7000. I was gonna keep both the DT990 and D7000, but seeing as the D7000 did music and movies better, I decided to sell the DT990 and get an open can that does competitive gaming better, which is why I went with the HD598 and ultimately the PC360. (went with the PC360 for the practicality even if it was inferior to the HD598).


----------



## Anathema123

The Zalman clip on is absolutely fine.
  To be honest, no headphone will ever turn a bad player into a good one. I wouldn't ever choose the improved soundstage of the 700 over a HD595/598.
  You will not perform any better from a competitive point of view with the 700 than with the 59X. You will have a less enjoyable sound, however.
  That being said, great guide!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

anathema123 said:


> The Zalman clip on is absolutely fine.
> To be honest, no headphone will ever turn a bad player into a good one. I wouldn't ever choose the improved soundstage of the 700 over a HD595/598.
> You will not perform any better from a competitive point of view with the 700 than with the 59X. You will have a less enjoyable sound, however.
> That being said, great guide!




For every satisified Zalman owner, there are 10 who absolutely despise it. Lol. 

That thing was so bad for me.... $30 down the drain.

Dealextreme clip on, ftw.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh, the mids on the DT990 are DEFINITELY not on par with the D7000. What I meant was that the bass on the DT990 gets in the way less than that on the D7000, so it evens out. That and the open design on the DT990 make it better for gaming and sound whoring for me. The DT880 is even better than the DT990 for all around gaming due to even better mids, but the rear positioning just left something to be desired. Not an issue for those gaming in normal stereo.
> 
> the reason I sold my DT990 was because I fell in love with the D7000. I was gonna keep both the DT990 and D7000, but seeing as the D7000 did music and movies better, I decided to sell the DT990 and get an open can that does competitive gaming better, which is why I went with the HD598 and ultimately the PC360. (went with the PC360 for the practicality even if it was inferior to the HD598).


 

 What did the D7k do better for your music? I still miss the soundstage+supertight but impactful bass of the 990 even when donning the 7ks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The sound signature of the D7000 just blew me away even when directly comparing it to the DT990. The DT990 still does have the better bass for me overall, but the room filling sub bass that the D7000 was intoxicating in it's own way. The mids and highs on the D7000 were on a whole other level for me too. The treble on the DT990 was a love/hate affair, while the D7000 was just outright perfect for me, aside from it being a closed design.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The sound signature of the D7000 just blew me away even when directly comparing it to the DT990. The DT990 still does have the better bass for me overall, but the room filling sub bass that the D7000 was intoxicating in it's own way. The mids and highs on the D7000 were on a whole other level for me too. The treble on the DT990 was a love/hate affair, while the D7000 was just outright perfect for me, aside from it being a closed design.


 
   
  Yea the decision for you is simpler since you don't need the open can soundstage in your music, just games. If you still had the money though, would you go for the D7000+HD598/360 or some other combo?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

D7000 + *HE-4*

The HE4 thoroughly spanks the DT880/990/K70x/HD598 and anything in that range. Think of them as a Super DT880/990 with bass close to the DT990 and everything else that's to die for. Mids aren't forward like the HD598 and K70x, but they certainly are more refined. A headphone you'd need to hear for yourself, though I guess with you owning the T1, you'd probably find them to be similar, though without the obvious price difference implications.

Oh and yes, I'd keep the PC360 as my gaming can, no matter what.

So actually now that I'm trimming down on what I have/will have, I'd keep it as PC360 + probably the D7000, and that's it. The KSC75 is a no brainer. Those are forever mine.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> D7000 + *HE-4*
> 
> The HE4 thoroughly spanks the DT880/990/K70x/HD598 and anything in that range. Think of them as a Super DT880/990 with bass close to the DT990 and everything else that's to die for. Mids aren't forward like the HD598 and K70x, but they certainly are more refined. A headphone you'd need to hear for yourself, though I guess with you owning the T1, you'd probably find them to be similar, though without the obvious price difference implications.
> 
> ...


 

 The T1 definitely doesn't have bass quantity anywhere near the 990. That's my biggest issue with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, so perhaps the HE4 would suit you. It's been awhile, but I'd say the HE4 has about 85-90% the bass of the DT990, if made up numbers mean anything...


----------



## shamrock134

Thanks for the input guys, if I had plenty of monies I'd just buy the AD700 and HD598 then sell the worst one. Alas I do not.
   
  I don't need a can for fun/immersive gaming, I've got 2 bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer for singleplayer games/explosions.
   
  I just need the ability to soundwhore in CSS to help balance out my **** aim.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Both would do that quite well. Just prepare for explosions and the like to sound like a can rattling if you go with the AD700. The bass frankly just doesn't exist.

Also keep in mind that I base all my impressions on the headphones with Dolby headphone (through my Mixamp) and nothing else. I rely on it like air, so if you're not using DH, YMMV big time. Heard plenty of people greatly prefer DH over CMSS and other virtual surround DSPs.


----------



## shamrock134

I've always used DH, previously through a Xonar DX and now through an Essence STX.
   
  I've found the HD598 for £145 which seems like the best price out there. The AD700 can be had for £100 though. Hmmm decisions!


----------



## Eric_C

Haha shamrock, sir, you've got gear like the D7k, Ed 8, ACS T1, and you're considering saving £45 between the HD598 and AD700?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. that's odd. XD

I find the HD598 to be a LOT more comfy as well. The AD700 has a polarizing fit. Some love it. some hate it. It certainly feels like you're wearing nothing, but it's also so loose fitting that it can be like a balancing act trying to keep it from moving out of the optimal ear positioning, which I hated. The HD598 uses a more stable headband mechanism... both have super soft velour pads. I take comfort as #1 priority so I had to comment on that as well.

In any case, for raw competitive performance, the AD700 will fit the bill for the price. It's that simple. I just think think the HD598 does more things better overall.


----------



## shamrock134

Haha yes, head-fi has bankrupted me to the point of watching the pennies! Also I got the D7K and E8 used for very good prices. It's always good to keep an eye on the FS forum.
   
  I am leaning to the 598 purely because I remember the 595 being so good in games, prompting many a cry of "hax0r!".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

When I think about hax0r type headphones...

AD700
K701 (probably the most jaw dropping in terms of detail whoring).
HD598
PC360
HE4
RE0


----------



## shamrock134

Great, increase my options why don't you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

shamrock134 said:


> Great, increase my options why don't you!




Lol, I'm just saying these are what gave me that feeling of cheating by soundwhoring alone. The K701 is quite the overkill though. You can get most of that sound whoring from the others. The RE0 was added as an IEM that can sound whore with the best of them, at the expense of soundstage. The HE4 is quite a soundwhoring headphone with great bass as well, but isn't ideal due to the power it needs to perform at it's best. I'd say that my E9 is probably giving me 80% of what the Lyr gave me. Still, fantastic. Obviously a pain to use since I'd need to attach an amp after the Mixamp. The Mixamp alone struggles something fierce trying to juice the HE4.


----------



## shamrock134

I've taken one for the team and ordered both the AD700 and HD598. Only the site I got the AD700 has a returns policy which allows a refund simply if you dislike it. Let's hope the HD598 is a keeper!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna call it. You'll prefer the HD598.


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> Has anyone else experienced a sort of 'muffling' when playing through the Mixamps? Its always happened to me with a lot of my headphones. I play for awhile, then the clarity goesa through the crapper, and game audio becomes super muffled for a length of time. I used to think it was the headphones, but I have experienced it even with crystal clear cans like the K701.
> 
> Zombie, I'm gonna be checking our vids.



I thought it was just in my head but yes I too get that, I think it Just doesn't sound as good as it should


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its weird. I'd be playing then everything starts sounding like it has a veil all over the sound. For awhile I thought it was maybe something wrong with my ears, but I only get that problem when I play through the Mixamp. Like my multi hundred dollar headphones sound like $5 budget iems. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

You know something's weird when even the DT990's treble sounded dull and severely rolled off. @_@

I'm trying to see if maybe it was the source and not the Mixamp. I don't remember having this issue with the PS3... only the 360, but I can't be certain because I almost never game on the PS3.


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> Its weird. I'd be playing then everything starts sounding like it has a veil all over the sound. For awhile I thought it was maybe something wrong with my ears, but I only get that problem when I play through the Mixamp. Like my multi hundred dollar headphones sound like $5 budget iems. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.
> 
> You know something's weird when even the DT990's treble sounded dull and severely rolled off. @_@
> 
> I'm trying to see if maybe it was the source and not the Mixamp. I don't remember having this issue with the PS3... only the 360, but I can't be certain because I almost never game on the PS3.



Yeah those pin sharp highs on the 990 just seem faded away and don't have that slice to them, very strange,dead space 2 ambient sounds kinda toned down and aren't as pronounced as they should be, reloading the guns is very quiet too when normally everything is in balance and it all sounds great, I don't have ps3 to compare to the Xbox 360


----------



## Alghazanth

If you already own the D7000, just get a mixamp and use them. They're unbeatable for SP and for MP they're only slightly "worse" than the AD700 post burn in. Soundwhoring is just the same between both with DH despite the difference in soundstage, the only thing is the D7K's bass will sometimes get in the way. But I've gotten used to it (fast) and it doesn't distract me unless I let it, and I do just as well with it as any of my other cans, and I certainly enjoy the sound itself 100x more. The AD700's are just for long competitive sessions w/ mic as the D7Ks get too static-y and the PX5's are usually only for relaxing.I
   
  If you're a millionaire, you could always grab the T1's or HD800s for just gaming. Even better than AD700, and $1300+ is always worth a 5% increase in soundwhoring . Although nothing beats the Skullcandy GI and TB X1s. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  MLE, it's your mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think the D7000 comes close to the soundwhoring cans whatsoever for gaming. If you think they're good, then any headphone will work for you, lol. Ok I'm kidding. They're good.

In any case, I don't think the people here are considering $600+ cans for gaming. I'm trying to be more realistic.


----------



## Ra97oR

AD2000 is pretty scary for gaming, even A2000X is quite a fair bit better than AD700, K701 in positioning. But for more competitive gaming, AD1000PRM will end up on my head. Not the most realistic, sound does not diffuse but instead remains a point source even from a distance. That gives a unfair advantage though.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> AD2000 is pretty scary for gaming, even A2000X is quite a fair bit better than AD700, K701 in positioning. But for more competitive gaming, AD1000PRM will end up on my head. Not the most realistic, sound does not diffuse but instead remains a point source even from a distance. That gives a unfair advantage though.


 
  Have you used any non Audio-Technica headphones?
  
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't think the D7000 comes close to the soundwhoring cans whatsoever for gaming. If you think they're good, then any headphone will work for you, lol. Ok I'm kidding. They're good.
> 
> In any case, I don't think the people here are considering $600+ cans for gaming. I'm trying to be more realistic.


 
  They're extremely good. The only reason not to use them over the usual soundwhoring cans is because of the bass. The positioning and every other characteristic is top notch. And the guy already HAS the D7000, so that's why I'm saying just use them, no reason not to, especially considering he's pinching pennies now. And for anyone that can't afford high end cans, the decision really isn't hard at all with all the info here. And I would know considering I've been in that situation already. It only really becomes difficult when you have the capacity to spend a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah. He definitely should at least try it.


----------



## Ra97oR

alghazanth said:


> Have you used any non Audio-Technica headphones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Erm yes? I had Denons, AKGs, Shures, Senns. Just that I sold them all. I have personally heard pretty much everything out there.


----------



## Alghazanth

Wait, MLE, do you prefer the PC360s to the D7000s for SP?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. However, there are times when I can't be arsed to disconnect the PC360 to plug in the D7000, and don't feel like I'm missing much. Sure the D7000 does the home theater feel perfectly, but it's not like the PC360 (with the 5.8's bass expander) isn't good at SP gaming, because it truly is.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. However, there are times when I can't be arsed to disconnect the PC360 to plug in the D7000, and don't feel like I'm missing much. Sure the D7000 does the home theater feel perfectly, but it's not like the PC360 (with the 5.8's bass expander) isn't good at SP gaming, because it truly is.


 


  Hmm, I'm curious. Say you could pick whatever combo you wanted for music, SP, and MP gaming. What would it be?
   
  Btw, the 5.8's bass boost causes low end distortion just like the crackling on wireless TB with deep bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have no problem with the bass expander on the 5.8 with the Pc360. It does it's job just fine for my use. I only use it with the PC360.

Music: D7000
Movies: D7000 
SP gaming: D7000
MP gaming: PC360 If mic wasn't important, K701/HD598

Of course, many can't afford the D7000 and it IS overkill for these needs. If I had NOTHING, I'd just get the PC360 for all my gaming and call it a day.


----------



## Phos

I gave the A900's a more thorough test with the DSS, and it does very poorly with sounds directly behind me.  Maybe I'll see if I can get a 7.1 signal out of my motherboard's onboard optical jack, or give them a shot at Vanquish.  
   
  Patents can sometimes be a bitch.  Sony makes this virtual surround sound gaming headset, and I imagine that due to either patents or licenses that they don't want to pay, this headset's virtual surround technology takes a set of analog signals instead of the usual optical connection.  So that means the sound is converted to analog by your computer, converted back to digital by the amp, and then back to analog for the head set.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





phos said:


> I gave the A900's a more thorough test with the DSS, and it does very poorly with sounds directly behind me.  Maybe I'll see if I can get a 7.1 signal out of my motherboard's onboard optical jack, or give them a shot at Vanquish.


 


  Err, is Vanquish a particularly good test for headphone's positioning capabilities?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wanna play that game. Pretty badass demo, but the game I hear is incredibly short. <__<



As far as a headphone that does everything well... well, the HE4 is about as good as it gets in their price range, the only issue being the power they need. They do soundwhoring better than the D7000, bass is as refined as on the DT990 with just a slight less quantity, though definitely not lacking, and the overall sound is just ridiculous for the price. Just know that the Mixamp can't handle it alone. The E9 powers it decently, but I know it is capable of being even better, like when I owned the Lyr.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Err, is Vanquish a particularly good test for headphone's positioning capabilities?


 
  It turns out it isn't, which ironically makes it a perfect match for the A900.  Vanquish can take advantage of clarity, but not positional.  
  
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wanna play that game. Pretty badass demo, but the game I hear is incredibly short. <__<
> 
> 
> 
> As far as a headphone that does everything well... well, the HE4 is about as good as it gets in their price range, the only issue being the power they need. They do soundwhoring better than the D7000, bass is as refined as on the DT990 with just a slight less quantity, though definitely not lacking, and the overall sound is just ridiculous for the price. Just know that the Mixamp can't handle it alone. The E9 powers it decently, but I know it is capable of being even better, like when I owned the Lyr.


 
  You can get it for like $25, and I've played it the whole way through several times so far.  It has that in common with the arcade games in that way.  It reminds me more of like a 3D metal slug done right than of a cover based shooter.  One tip is to not rely on melee when an enemy gets close, it's better to do a roll away and be holding the aim button to enter enter AR mode, then shoot the enemies that got too close.


----------



## Eric_C

x2 on Vanquish being a game to get. Just buy it as cheap as you can--it is indeed a very short ride, but it's fun while it lasts.


----------



## shamrock134

I have tried the D7000 and Edition 8 for gaming. They do not work as well as I'd like.
   
  The Edition 8 must have some weird stuff going on with S-Logic & DH because I'd say it is "okay" for competitive gaming.
   
  The D7000 and Pro900 both work reasonably well, but the details are masked somewhat by explosions, gunfire and bass. They worked fine in casually competitive games like L4D2, but in CSS they aren't up to the task. Also my D7K is usually plugged into a desktop amp which doesn't allow me to use DH.
   
  At the very least, I can give another opinion on how the AD700 and 598 compare for gaming.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





shamrock134 said:


> I have tried the D7000 and Edition 8 for gaming. They do not work as well as I'd like.
> 
> The Edition 8 must have some weird stuff going on with S-Logic & DH because I'd say it is "okay" for competitive gaming.
> 
> ...


 
  And therein lies your problem.


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> No. However, there are times when I can't be arsed to disconnect the PC360 to plug in the D7000, and don't feel like I'm missing much. Sure the D7000 does the home theater feel perfectly, but it's not like the PC360 (with the 5.8's bass expander) isn't good at SP gaming, because it truly is.



Lol that is exactly like me, getting the e9 out and running cable to mixamp etc for the dt 990 I just can't be bothered with sometimes and that was only reason I noticed the clipping on dead space 2 with the pc 360 recently as the dt 990 is normally just for single player however I will definitely just use the dt 990 for single player to avoid any clipping


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> And therein lies your problem.


 
   
  When I used it for gaming it _was _using DH direct from my soundcard. After that I stopped using it for gaming and plugged it into the dedicated amp.
   
  I just didn't feel like I had a sphere of awareness (like the 595 used to give) which is what I'm hoping the AD700 or HD598 can provide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D7000 runs fine just off the Mixamp. The benefits of extra amping won't be truly noticeable when you're too busy gaming with them. It's not like trying to run a 600ohm off a soundcard.

I don't notice clipping on my PC360. but definitely got clipping with my DT990 (though that was when running it straight off the Mixamp), weird.


----------



## Alghazanth

The E7 does nothing for the D7000, and the only thing the E9 would do in combination with the mixamp is reduce static, which would be great for me, but it's too much setup since and I don't need wires across the floor, that's why I got the 5.8. As for the "sphere of awareness", out of all the headphones I've tried, the HD800, T1, D7000, AD700, and to a lesser extent D2000,DT880,990 are the only ones that provide that, and believe me I know what you mean. And just plug it straight into the mixamp.


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> The D7000 runs fine just off the Mixamp. The benefits of extra amping won't be truly noticeable when you're too busy gaming with them. It's not like trying to run a 600ohm off a soundcard.
> 
> I don't notice clipping on my PC360. but definitely got clipping with my DT990 (though that was when running it straight off the Mixamp), weird.




Ah man I don't know what's up, just playing dead space 2 again, this time with dt 990 running through e9 to the mixamp and had major clipping on one particular section where lots of enemies were coming at me and the sound totally cut out for about a second and was clipping a bit for about 3-5 seconds after the cutout


----------



## Wasper

Hi Mad Lust Envy,
   
  I was wondering if I can pick your brain for a bit?
   
  I have a gift card to a store that has a limited selection of headsets.. and since I'm in the market for a new one, I wanted to get your opinion on some. I first bought a Corsair HS1A 3.5mm set, but found them totally lacking any bass at all. I was using on-board, but even hooked to my rack system, they were flat. So, since I'm using an old USB headset, I was looking to get another one.
   
  Now, this store has a limited selection, but they do carry SteelSeries. I was looking at them and they are kind of appealing, as you can choose between the 3.5mm plugs, or add the usb card in-line. I see in your first post, you were said to pass on the Siberia v1 . But, I was wondering, how is it holding up? I never owned a SteelSeries, so I'm worried about build quality and longevity.
   
  The Product I was  looking at is:
   
7H USB
   
  The 7H is looking appealing to me for the features. Also, Hardware heaven did a review of it and said:
   
_"In terms of performance the 7H were fantastic. Looking first to the gaming tests, whether it is in stereo mode or virtual 7.1 we were hugely impressed with the clarity and power offered by the 7H. Ambient sounds, music, voices, major effects... all were recreated exceptionally well. In fact the 7H offered us as good a gaming experience as we have had from a headset. Gaming isn't’t this products only strong point though as the experience when listening to music was also very good. Across the entire audio range the SteelSeries 7H provided us with a great representation of our various materials. They excel in clarity as well as bass and it is very rare that we find a scenario where they fail to match the market leading PC 360 in music related scenarios... of course we need to keep in mind that the Sennheiser headset costs over twice as much as the 7H. "_
   
Link to the SteelSeries 7H USB Review.
   
  Now, the same site Reviewed the Sennheiser PC 360. I know that you, yourself, gave the PC360 a stellar review.. So, I was wondering if you could look at the review at Hardware Heaven and see if the reviewers opinions look legit?
   
Link to the PC 360 Review
   
  So, does that look OK? I mean, the guy is saying that the 7H is pretty close to the PC 360. I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm looking for a "baseline" to judge if this reviewer can be trusted when talking about the comparison between the 7H and the PC360. Seeing how you have a 360, I wanted to see if you agree with the reviewers assessment of the 360. Also, I was wondering if the Steelseries Siberia v1 was still kicking and holding up well?
   
   
  Also, I found another thing to check out. I didn't know if this guy is trustworthy, but he compares the 7H to some other headsets/phones in a video on youtube... Link
   
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't own the V1, my ex does. It felt quite fragile to be honest.

 I don't look into headsets because they're almost always inferior to headphones, and overpriced for what you get. The PC360 and MMX300 are two headsets modeled after successful headphones, which is why they are the only true headsets I'd ever consider. All the other headsets I have owned were failures in one way or another.

Bass isn't something I give much merit to in a headset, as when I use headsets, I'm gaming competitively, and bass just gets in the way most of the time. Bass light to bass neutral is what I like (for competitive gaming). So if bass is considered 'good', that pretty much translates as 'too much' for my own preferences for a headset. The PC360 is bass neutral, and if I want bass, I just turn on the bass expander on the Mixamp 5.8. Works well enough for me.

Too many glowing reviews out there for headphones/headsets in general. I take them all with a grain of slat. Only MLGSteggy and akaTRENT are the only guys I trust in terms of headset reviews, and I don't always agree with them.

I'm not a fan of headsets (with the exception of the PC360), so I'm not the right guy to give a valid opinion on them. Lots of people love the A40s and consider them the best in their range, and I thought they were trash...so yeah...


----------



## shamrock134

I've just opened the AD700 right now (still waiting for the HD598) and are initial impressions are LOLWUT?!
   
  I looked at myself in the mirror and literally couldn't contain the laugher....who designed this thing! It looks ridiculous!
   
  I've not tested them yet and probably won't say much until I have the 598 too. I just can't get over how stupid I look with them on.


----------



## TMRaven

You might be laughing when you get the 598 too, because it looks just as ridiculous.


----------



## shamrock134

Really?  The HD598 just looks like a cream/white 595.
   
  Maybe it's my small head that exaggerates it, but those 2 grey tube bits stick out a lot.
   
  Will give the AD700 a blast on CSS later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> You might be laughing when you get the 598 too, because it looks just as ridiculous.




Agreed. The 598 looks dorky as hell when worn too. The color scheme looks good in pics... but once you see it in person...especially wearing it...


----------



## shamrock134

Ah well lol, I won't be wearing either away from the PC so it shouldn't be an issue!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Played a few rounds of CSS and the AD700 is pretty awesome. I totally feel like I have that spherical awareness back and the lack of bass is great for CS. I wonder if the HD598 can compete.
   
  Although, no matter how good the directional sound ability of a headphone is, it cannot make up for poor aim!


----------



## Jae304

MLE, 
   
  I find it confusing why you'd consider the MMX-300 based on the parts I bolded below...The MMX is based on the DT770 but costs so much more that what you can find 770s for -- why is the Beyer built in mic worth it to you where others are not?  Also, the MMX are not at all bass neutral so again, why would you consider it when your preference is the opposite?
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *I don't look into headsets because they're almost always inferior to headphones, and overpriced for what you get.* The PC360 and MMX300 are two headsets modeled after successful headphones, which is why they are the only true headsets I'd ever consider. All the other headsets I have owned were failures in one way or another.





>





> Bass isn't something I give much merit to in a headset, as when I use headsets, I'm gaming competitively, and bass just gets in the way most of the time. Bass light to bass neutral is what I like (for competitive gaming). *So if bass is considered 'good', that pretty much translates as 'too much' for my own preferences for a headset. *The PC360 is bass neutral, and if I want bass, I just turn on the bass expander on the Mixamp 5.8. Works well enough for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jae304 said:


> MLE,
> 
> I find it confusing why you'd consider the MMX-300 based on the parts I bolded below...The MMX is based on the DT770 but costs so much more that what you can find 770s for -- why is the Beyer built in mic worth it to you where others are not?  Also, the MMX are not at all bass neutral so again, why would you consider it when your preference is the opposite?




There are two MMX300s floating around. One is bass light, just as there are bass light DT770s around. Problem is, you never know which one you're gonna get.

With me, I do find the MMX300 overpriced, but if I were in the market for it, I'd still get it because I know it has the performance I want. I wouldn't have bought the PC360 if it were at MSRP either, luckily I got mine well south of the MSRP.

Not having to deal with an external mic was just one thing I really wanted.


----------



## Alghazanth

Just got the 600ohm DT990. The midrange is in fact less recessed than the 32ohm version, but it's still like 20% more recessed than even the D2000 and the sibilance is far worse.
   
  MLE: I think you're greatly exaggerating the D7000 bass being a problem soundwhoring. Yesterday I played some FFA in Black Ops with both my T1s and D2000s (Didn't have my D7Ks on me). T1's are basically the perfect cans for soundwhoring, not close to enough bass quantity to get in the way, and even more soundstage and detail than the AD700s. Ran around with Ninja Pro and a silenced MPL with the T1's, went 30-4. 4 deaths were all from people who had Ninja themselves. Put D2000s on:
   
  Same setup, different map. 30-8. However, a guy with Ninja got 2 blackbirds up, and that was 4 deaths for me (Commando vs MPL). One was from dogs. Two were from another guy with Ninja running around w/ a ballistic knife. The last death was from losing a gunfight to some random guy.
   
  What I'm getting at is, even between probably the very best soundwhoring can and the D7000's younger brother with muddier bass, no death was the result of me not hearing someone with either can. I would chase people I heard far away, pull 180s and shoot right at someone running down stairs, go into a building and know the exact spot someone just ran into, etc with both of these cans. The more powerful explosions, howling wind, etc from the D2000's bass, and the lesser soundstage did not make me any worse at soundwhoring at all.If you're wondering, I use theater mode+quiet in Blops.
   
  I also tested both plus PX5s in a few games of Hardcore S&D in MW2. I won't get into that too (unless you want me to) but basically the same thing happened, anytime I heard someone with one of these cans, I was in a position to hear them with any of the others, and there wasn't a kill or death I got with the T1's that wouldn't have happened with the PX5s or D2000s. So basically what I'm getting at is:
   
  1) It seems innate soundstage isn't a big deal past a certain point, as dolby headphone plus COD's sound engine makes the distance you can hear footsteps basically the same. No doubt IEMs and something like the M50 don't have enough, but if the D2000 does than the D7000 most certainly does.
   
  2) The bass is not a problem unless you're in a 6v6 or 9v9 game with tons of explosions and stuff going on around you, but I can tell you that soundwhoring is hard regardless in that situation. Ground War on Villa, it's pretty damn hard to soundwhore much past what's close with ANY can because explosions and gunfire will still be explosions and gunfire, bass or not.
   
  How about CS:S? IIRC, that has a very outdated sound engine and I remember reading posts that CMSS3D properly, so I don't know about DH. Unless you have proof that this game has a better sound engine or allows you to hear footsteps significantly further than in MW2/Blops, I'd say the same results apply here. I know that back when I was really into it months ago I was using D2000s at the time and I could soundwhore as well as I imagine the game allows.
   
  I haven't tested Battlefield, don't know if I want to.
   
  All of this was tested with the headphones plugged straight into the 5.8 Mixamp, DH on.


----------



## Alghazanth

In case anyone was curious, the LCD-2 are useless for gaming. Not surprising... but I just tried em in Black Ops and it sounded like my footsteps were 2 feet to the left w/ DH. Then again they have the weirdest soundstage ever.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> In case anyone was curious, the LCD-2 are useless for gaming. Not surprising... but I just tried em in Black Ops and it sounded like my footsteps were 2 feet to the left w/ DH. Then again they have the weirdest soundstage ever.


 

 Two feet IN GAME or in real life? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  If it's in real life, reminds me of how my K702 was when I had tried it with the Asgard. For some reason I'm not a fan of the K702 with DH. I imagine the LCD2 for gaming might be similar to the HD-650 with gaming, but with a much larger soundstage? 
   
  I think the HD-650 was one of my least favorite headphones for gaming. 
   
  I think my favorite gaming headphone was the ATH-AD2000, even despite the soundstage being smaller than that of the AD700. Right now I'm split 50/50 with the 598 and K601. I bet the HD-800 might be able to top them


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> Just got the 600ohm DT990. The midrange is in fact less recessed than the 32ohm version, but it's still like 20% more recessed than even the D2000 and the sibilance is far worse.
> 
> MLE: I think you're greatly exaggerating the D7000 bass being a problem soundwhoring. Yesterday I played some FFA in Black Ops with both my T1s and D2000s (Didn't have my D7Ks on me). T1's are basically the perfect cans for soundwhoring, not close to enough bass quantity to get in the way, and even more soundstage and detail than the AD700s. Ran around with Ninja Pro and a silenced MPL with the T1's, went 30-4. 4 deaths were all from people who had Ninja themselves. Put D2000s on:
> 
> ...




We obviously don't have the same tastes, so just because you're fine with the D7000, doesn't mean I have to be. We all don't like the same things. I love the D7000, but the bass does distract me when I game with it competitively. I want NO distractions. The bass on the D7000 demands attention, and attention it gets. It's an awesome bass, but distracting nevertheless. It may not be a problem for you, but it's a problem for me and quite a few of my friends who are about as enthusiastic about headphone gaming as I am.

There's no way in hell the D2000 would EVER be a soundwhoring headphone for me with that kind of bass. No way, no how. Can I hear minute details with the ultra bassy DT770 pro 80? Sure. I can hear subtle details with practically any headphone I use. HOWEVER, to say one is just as good as another in terms of giving me the type of sound curve I like when I play, well that's untrue.

Just because you like the T1, D7000, or whatever doesn't mean people will agree with you, just as you don't agree with me. I like the D7000 well enough for all forms of gaming, but there's clearly BETTER for me in terms of soundwhoring for MUCH less. Soundwhoring by definition would heavily imply that your main focus is the subtle and important details. The D7000's attention grabbing bass already discredits it as soundwhoring headphone. Soundwhoring headphones are ANALYTICAL headphones, like the K70x, AD700, HD598, HD800, and the like.

As for Black Ops... man I could go 30-0 with a pair of $5 buds, or 5-25 with an HD800. Headphones don't make you a better gamer. It just gives you an edge in that you can use your ears as well as eyes.

As long as a headphone isn't absolute trash, I'm pretty sure I'd do the same regardless of whatever headphones I use. Just that the soundwhoring cans like the K70x let you pay even more attention to the sounds that can make or break you.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Two feet IN GAME or in real life?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The HD650 was absolutely worthless with DH. Gunfire sounded like it could be anywhere on the map. The LCD-2 I only had to try for 30 seconds w/ DH, when I was running it sounded like I was standing still and someone right next to me was running in place really loudly. But then again who expected orthos to be any good for gaming. As for the T1 and HD800, they're basically moderately better than the AD700 for soundwhoring because of even wider soundstage and detail retrieval, but I wouldn't use any of the three for single player and only one of those is worth the price of keeping around for MP only (take a wild guess which one that might be). In fact the difference isn't even that large considering the AD700 already pushes the boundary of where "Hearing footsteps" stops in the sound engine, and these games all use compressed audio. All 3 of those lack the huge bass quantity that makes explosions, rumbling, etc sound so epic in SP and really immerses you. Thank goodness for the D7000s.
   

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  Well then I'm glad I'm not so easily distracted. As for the bolded part, did you really just say that after a 91 page thread about gaming headphones?
   
  Btw for anyone interested in the TB PX5's, on the main preset they're completely flat and basically perfect for soundwhoring. Haven't tried the "footsteps" preset. They suck for single player gaming because the drivers can't handle bass and crackle during big explosions and such, but it's not too bad on preset 4. Great headset here if you just want to kick back,relax, and rape in COD. I use it mostly when gaming with friends because I CBF to deal with all of the wires associated with mics and the mixamp, and since we're always playing shooters it works out perfectly. In fact I barely ever touch the AD700s nowadays.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

By saying that, I mean that I'm good regardless of whatever headphone I use. You're misinterpreting me.

The headphones you use will help to heighten your sense of awareness. It's obvious to me that analytical headphones will do this MUCH better than a fun bassy headphone like the D7000. You dig?

Congrats on not being distracted by headphones with a slamming lower end. Unfortunately, there's plenty of people who ARE, and these are the types that would agree with me, and not you.

Since you seem to be fine with bassy cans, then why the hell would you spend so much money on flagships for gaming purposes? Not saying that's what you did, but this is a GAMING thread, not a music/typical head-fi related thread. This is why I would easily recommend the PC360/HD598 over the D7000, and other serious flagships any day of the week.

I'm a bit more realistic than you are, and my recommendations are for those who don't have $600-$1200 to spend on a flagship like you. I wasn't even gonna add the D7000 to my list of recommendations since it's largely unrealistic and overkill for the purpose of gaming. Game audio is a far cry from music, and you can maximize performance and enjoyment from headphones costing considerably less.

Telling people that they should just go for the T1/D7000 as they're 'great' for gaming would be utterly ridiculous to me. For that price range, I would hope people consider a helluva lot more than just gaming performance.

Let me quote myself about the D7000's performance to make myself MORE clear:



> They are also GREAT for hardcore gaming, but in all honesty, the bass is so good, you'll find yourself paying attention to it when you should be picking up the finer details, which is why I'd still choose something with quicker, and less present bass like the AD700, K701, HD598, and even DT990 for hardcore gaming. Still, yes, they can do it all.




So yes, I do agree with you, but I wouldn't put them in the same league as those I have mentioned for hardcore gaming.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> By saying that, I mean that I'm good regardless of whatever headphone I use. You're misinterpreting me.
> 
> The headphones you use will help to heighten your sense of awareness. It's obvious to me that analytical headphones will do this MUCH better than a fun bassy headphone like the D7000. You dig?
> 
> ...


 
  Yes I obviously didn't spend $1000 or $1300 for gaming headphones. I bought them both for music, but as everyone in this thread hopefully knows, "gaming headsets" are far surpassed in audio quality by audiophile headphones, so I also use them for gaming. If you're referring to the PX5, it's because I use it for the same purpose as the AD700, and they're basically identical for soundwhoring but the PX5 is just better for kicking back and relaxing, which is what I tend to do when I'm playing with friends. And you said it yourself, it's best to have one can for "fun" SP gaming and one for competitive, and though my take is different with the D7000 (everything but MP w/ mic), I agree. I guess the PC360 is alright since it's a sort of audiophile can to start with.
   
  And yes I understand most don't have the much to spend, a year ago it took me two weeks to finally take the leap for a pair of X41s. That's kind of why I keep saying AD700, D2000 etc. As for being able to MAXIMIZE game audio performance at that range, that my friend is simply untrue. Thus far the D7000 has maximized my enjoyment for gaming, and that's no surprise considering it's labeled the king of fun. You can certainly get great experiences for a lot less, but you used the word maximizing, which isn't true, even as compressed as game audio is.
   
  The T1/D7000 recommendations you didn't read very carefully. The T1 was just me giving a quick review of them, because they are indeed a bit better than the AD700 for soundwhoring. That's not surprising, and I wasn't intending to undermine every other headphone, I'm just saying in case anyone happens to have/plans to get it and is wondering, and because I felt like it. The D7000 was to the guy who already owned a pair of D7000s, why would he get anything other than a mixamp in that case? He already has the best SP can and wants to pinch pennies. If for MP, AD700 obviously.  I'm not crazy, I don't tell people to just jump straight to $1000+ cans, it was only a quick impression post and to a guy who already owns them.
   
  I personally would never take my D7000 off while gaming were it not for the big static that comes from their sensitivity and high mic+game volume. A few of the games I remember most fondly in Black Ops come from the immersion provided by them. The bass really doesn't get in the way for me until I'm in such a big game where the only thing I'm soundwhoring is what's <ten feet from me. I dunno, maybe it's the intense hundreds upon hundreds of hours of soundwhoring with the X41's that trained me to ignore bass when hunting for footsteps. But hey if that's not the case with you, that's fine bro, no harm done.
   
  By the way, did your 600ohm 990s come with the adapter? Mine did, and I feel like I got the 32ohm again... why the 600ohm be 3.5mm by default?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All the premium Beyers are terminated at 3.5mm and come with the screw on 1/4" adapter. It makes the most sense that way, and I wish ALL headphones came like that. 3.5mm is small, and the screw on adapter on the Beyers works so good that once it's screwed on, you wouldn't think it's originally terminated in a 3.5mm. When it's terminated in 1/4", the 3.5mm adapter tends to look quite bulky when directly compared to a 3.5mm with a screwed on 1/4".

Beyer knows what it's doing in that department, IMHO.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All the premium Beyers are terminated at 3.5mm and come with the screw on 1/4" adapter. It makes the most sense that way, and I wish ALL headphones came like that. 3.5mm is small, and the screw on adapter on the Beyers works so good that once it's screwed on, you wouldn't think it's originally terminated in a 3.5mm. When it's terminated in 1/4", the 3.5mm adapter tends to look quite bulky when directly compared to a 3.5mm with a screwed on 1/4".
> 
> Beyer knows what it's doing in that department, IMHO.


 

 I prefer it that way too, it's just that nobody else does it. Pretty much all the mid-fi and all the hi-fi cans come with the 1/4 default like they're telling you "dont you even think of plugging this right here into an ipod". Surprised the hell out of me when I first got my D7000, had to wait an extra 4 days to get an adapter from Amazon since it was Thursday night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Only problem with the beyers is there's no way to tell the OHM outside of the one sticker on the box. And yea, I still hate the recessed midrange/highs


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you looked at the plug near where the gold is? My 600ohm beyers both had '600 ohm' right on there. My 32ohm Beyer also had a label right on the same spot.

I know not all of them have it, but mine sure did.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Have you looked at the plug near where the gold is? My 600ohm beyers both had '600 ohm' right on there. My 32ohm Beyer also had a label right on the same spot.
> 
> I know not all of them have it, but mine sure did.


 


  Oh you're right, nice.


----------



## Jae304

I'd never heard of the bass light version, but thats good to know.  Still, it would be a huge gamble to buy a set and only hope to get one of those!
  
  I don't mind dealing with an external mic but I can definitely see the appeal of having one built in.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Pearlsea

I need for some advice to replace my setup because my pair of HD 555 cracked beyond repair. I'm a fairly hardcore PC gamer who appreciates good stereo sound for spacial positioning and general enjoyment. I don't know a lot about audiophile terms yet, so please bear with me. My genre preferences for gaming are FPS, MOBA (League of Legends), and rhythm (osu!), and I don't really have a music preference.
   
  I've been looking at HD 598 as a natural progression as I've been wearing the design for a few years ago, and it's gotten some good reviews as a gaming headphone. What I really get lost with is the sound card and dac/amp options. All I've used with my HD 555 is integrated sound because I never had the budget for anything more. I'm willing to spend up to $200 to test if I really like the improvement to the sound as long as it does not interfere with my gaming. I would really appreciate if I could get some answers for these questions:
   
  Does an DAC/amp need a good sound card to be effective?
   
  Will a sound card like Auzen X-Meridian 7.1 2G be all I need?
   
  Will any of the external DAC/amp options distort or delay the sound information? I'm mostly just concerned about FPS gaming. For any consistent delays for rhythm games I can adjust the offset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HD598 + a good souncard that has Dolby Headphone will be epic. Though if you're used to plain stereo, you may not like DH. I personally think those people who prefer regular stereo over Dolby headphone are crazy, but that's just me.


----------



## Phos

If you have the slot for it I'd go with a PCIe sound card.  PCI slots are starting to be more and more rare.  
   
  And I'm also curious about delays and the like.  I think the DSS adds a delay, but that might be because of the processing it has to do not being very powerful.  I'll probably get a card with line out, so I can switch between  DAC+Amp and just an amp, probably a Asus Xonar + AudioGD FUN.


----------



## Pearlsea

I decided to order the HD 598 and ASUS Xonar Essence ST today. I'm like $250 over budget but for some reason I'm really pumped and can't wait, especially when I play osu!
   
  I'm pretty sure I've never used Dolby Headphone before, I've always been good at spacial perception even with just stereo sound. Will be interesting to try though. I went with the ST because I've read that it has better circuit paths so it's better for the sound, and will fit perfectly under my GPU away from the fan intake (HD 6950), leaving me with a pci-e x4 slot if I ever need it.
   
  Also as a small bonus, I seemed to fix my HD555 for now with some krazie glue and industrial tape. I hope it lasts till I get my HD 598! It's the second crack I've fixed with tape on the left arm. Poor things got abused by my family over the years.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never gamed on PC, so just make sure you set up your games correctly or Dolby Headphone won't work correctly. I know some people think its automatically functional... its not.


----------



## Alghazanth

So, I just realized something about soundwhoring headphones:
   
  My PX5s, on main preset, are completely flat and have even less bass than the AD700. In fact, when I put on the AD700 after using the PX5 for a day, I thought the 700s were insanely muddy. The PX5's are not like the previous TB's that use the dumb 4 drivers per cup, these have the usual and best 1 driver per cup+ Dolby Headphone. They have soundstage out the ass: I tested it for quite a while with my friend, and the very endpoint of me being able to hear his footsteps/reloads/gunfire was the same with the PX5 and AD700 (D7000 stopped at like 2 inches shorter because of bass+howling wind but it isn't even noticeable). The AD700 is already mildly inferior for soundwhoring to the T1s and HD800s, and by mildly I mean it isn't noticeable in 99.9% of situations, as all of these games have compressed audio and the engine stops you hearing things at a set distance regardless, plus nobody is going to keep $1300-14000 cans around for a miniscule advantage. 
   
  So what I'm getting at is this: Why use any of these soundwhoring cans over the PX5? Granted, I haven't tried the K701, but no way will that have better detail retrieval than T1s. What's the point of using DT880s, 990s, A40s, AD700s, K701s, etc exclusively for soundwhoring if the PX5 allows you to soundwhore as much as possible on the main preset? And then you have the attached mic, meaning I don't have to deal with a mess of cables at my lap when I want to talk. And they have the convenience of wireless. Plus the bluetooth and customs presets are always nice, hell there's a preset specifically for footsteps that I haven't tried.  Same, if not better, soundwhoring and a ton of convenience, ease, and utility thrown in. Why would you go for anything else if your goal is to soundwhore? Sure other audiophile cans sound better overall in MP, but these actually sound surprisingly good on preset 4 while maintaining the same footsteps advantage. And besides, you won't be using your K701s or AD700s for SP, so overall SQ is a moot point. As you've said MLE, it is best to have an SP and MP can, and I don't see how these can be beat for MP. 100% soundwhoring potential, wireless, attached mic... why go for anything else provided you have the money?
   
  Now singleplayer is a different story. Perfect as the PX5's are for MP, they suck for SP. As I mentioned, preset 4 sounds a lot better than expected, but the issue lies elsewhere. These cans can pump out bass, but the drivers simply cannot handle loud, deep, or sub-bass. Turtle Beaches have always been a soundwhoring can above all else, and it's easily evident here. The bass is a disaster for SP. Some examples: In Section 8 Prejudice, when the spaceship is landing, there is obviously a very loud rumbling. On any other can, even those with little bass, it's still a rumble. With the PX5's, it's a mess of crackling. In Black Ops SP, on the 'Nam level, when the mines blow and set off an enormous explosion, the PX5's is all crackling. Gears 3 beta, the desert map when the sandstorm is arriving, all crackling. Basically, huge explosions= crackling, and that kills immersion obviously. Sad part is when I used X41s for the longest time, I thought the crackling was how it was SUPPOSED to sound. And obviously ANY decent audiophile can is going to have overall far superior sound quality. When I got my mixamp and tried my D2000s out, it was a revelation. So yea, crackling bass, inferior overall sound versus any audiophile headphone, PX5s are not good for SP.
   
  The best setup imo is now the D7000/LA7000(getting the LA soon so we'll see) plus the PX5. I'm going to use the PX5 for Multiplayer w/ mic or when I just feel like kicking back and relaxing, chatting with friends, streaming some music from my iPhone, etc. For SP and MP w/o mic, I will use my D/LA7000. D7K for SP and mic-less MP enjoyment and immersion, and PX5's for all MP w/ mic or relaxing. Perfect.


----------



## Eric_C

Hey guys sorry to revisit an old question, but this is on Xbox 360 game/chat audio mixing (again). 
Anyone heard of Xjacker? They claim to be able to amp and mix the 2 audio signals, plus adapt a regular PC headset's mic for use on 360. Here's the link:
http://www.xjacker.com/instructions_gaming_headset_amp_kit.php

Doesn't look any different from plugging my headphones into an amp, and having the 360's wired headset around my neck (for use of mic). 
Problem with that setup is chat audio isn't amped independent of game audio--again, Xjacker looks to run into the same problem. What do you guys think?


----------



## Inquartata

I know I use my A40 and mixamp for MP/soundwhoring/when I need a mic, but I've been using the HFI-780 with the mixamp for everything else. I really, _really_ hate using the A40 now unless I'm playing a shooter. The difference is ridiculous. I can't imagine what it must be like for the really good headphones. (I got the A40s and the mixamp before I really understood anything about audio. Regretting the A40 purchase a bit, but definitely not the mixamp.)


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





inquartata said:


> I know I use my A40 and mixamp for MP/soundwhoring/when I need a mic, but I've been using the HFI-780 with the mixamp for everything else. I really, _really_ hate using the A40 now unless I'm playing a shooter. The difference is ridiculous. I can't imagine what it must be like for the really good headphones. (I got the A40s and the mixamp before I really understood anything about audio. Regretting the A40 purchase a bit, but definitely not the mixamp.)


 


  Yep same story with me and my X41s and D2000s a while back.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hey guys sorry to revisit an old question, but this is on Xbox 360 game/chat audio mixing (again).
> Anyone heard of Xjacker? They claim to be able to amp and mix the 2 audio signals, plus adapt a regular PC headset's mic for use on 360. Here's the link:
> http://www.xjacker.com/instructions_gaming_headset_amp_kit.php
> 
> ...


 


  The way their setup is, is exactly how I have my xbox setup but just smaller. Game audio goes to my headphones from my H&K receiver using DH while I have my mic plugged directly into my controller. I was hoping that that thing was just a small puck that only mixed the audio and not amp it... something that I will never find :/ I'd have better luck finding a small mixer for turntables and using its crossfader... scratch that, going to look into how to make crossfader. It'd be so much easier if I just gave in and got a wired mixamp.


----------



## Eric_C

Haha I actually have a cheap turntable mixer (2 inputs) but it's too far from where I sit to be used to crossfade chat and game audio.


----------



## calpis

It's pretty simple to hook up to a mixer too, just connect a 3.5mm to rca cable with a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable into the controller then connect your mic directly into one of the rca's with the proper adapter and the other rca into the mixer. I was going to look for a cheap mixer at the flea market today but the rain says otherwise.


----------



## Eric_C

calpis: afraid you lost me there. Got a diagram?


----------



## Alghazanth

You guys should just save up for the mixamp 5.8, solves all your problems.


----------



## Eric_C

Ah, but the challenge of solving the problem with DIY-ish means is kinda fun. 
Also, shipping to Singapore for Astro products is ridonkulous--I heard a guy bought his A40 system for ~US$366.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/04/mad-catz-exclusive-xbox-360-wireless-headphones-revealed-integ/





> Gaming, Peripherals
> Mad Catz' exclusive Xbox 360 wireless headphones revealed: integrated voice chat, 5.8GHz base station
> By Sean Hollister posted Jun 4th 2011 10:08PM
> Remember how Mad Catz scored the exclusive rights to produce Xbox 360 wireless headphones? Here's the deal: these cans don't need to be tethered to your controller for voice chat or plugged into a wall to charge. According to IGN, the new Mad Catz Warhead 7.1 will get everything it needs from a base station connected to your console. String USB and optical cables directly from the Xbox 360 to that tiny tower above, and you'll reportedly get enough 5.8GHz bandwidth to deliver virtual Dolby surround sound to four pairs of headphones at once -- plus wireless Xbox LIVE audio chat thanks to some native support from Microsoft. What's more, the USB base station will also give you an on-screen battery readout, and if the Warhead runs out of juice, you'll find a second swappable battery pack sitting in the base station's charger. If that sounds too rich for your blood, the Devastator will ditch the surround sound and rechargeable batteries while retaining the same connectivity and 50mm drivers of its premium brother. How much that'll cost you is still to be determined, though Mad Catz told IGN they'll all ring up under $300 this holiday.




If this ends up sounding comparable to the PC360 (which I doubt), I would seriously consider this product, because there is absolutely NO tethering to the 360 controller, meaning ZERO wires. It uses Dolby Headphone, which you all know I'm 100% for, so this would be the end be all headset solution for those wanting the cleanest setup.

Can't wait for reviews.

I do wish it had external headphone support, for when we wanna game in DH without this headset, though that's what the Mixamp 5.8 is for.

I don't see this as solution to us enthusiastic Head-fiers, but for those that want just one headset and that's it.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/04/mad-catz-exclusive-xbox-360-wireless-headphones-revealed-integ/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Wow. That will replace my PX5s if it turns out as promised.


----------



## mitos

Question, would something like the Audinst HUD-mx1 or Audio-Gd NFB-12 work ith the PS3 via the USB input from the mx1? I just wondering whether it'll work, cause the driver is meant for PCs? Thanks


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> You guys should just save up for the mixamp 5.8, solves all your problems.


 

 My receiver already does DH, so it's either I spend $160 for a mixamp (ca tax + shipping) or pick up a used mixer for $20

  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> calpis: afraid you lost me there. Got a diagram?


----------



## Eric_C

Calpis: Thanks! I was thinking of patching the controller/chat audio into the mixer that way...am I right to say you're using the female RCA to female 3.5 to input mic audio into the mix? But how do you know which RCA cable to patch it into?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love my KSC75 so much, so I want the best I can get in that form factor. I tend to reach for my KSC75 over my other cans when watching movies, and whatnot because of how ridiculously comfortable they are. My KSC75 is starting to distort the bass every once in awhile, so I think its time to put them to rest. They served me incredibly well.

I'm looking for a beast clip on as my main comfort can.

I was gonna go with the Yuin G1A, then I read that it has a smooth treble. That immediately disqualified it. I hear it sounds like the ESW9 in that department which I owned and absolutely despised.

I'm gonna have to read up on clip ons... probably gonna order another pair of 75s.


----------



## mitos

Hey Mad Lust Envy, would know of any cheap audiophile grade DAC/AMP that would double as as stand alone DAC that could replace getting a Mixamp. I dont want to waste the money getting an amp/dac that's built for gaming.ie MIxamp. Sorry, for being an idiot, I think I missed massive chucks of how to connect amps like E9 to PS3 port, do you reckon you could explain, please?
   
  Also, would there happen to be a RCA to ps3 optical connect or something for audio?
   
  Cheers
   
  Mitos


----------



## shamrock134

I think out of the 2 headphones, the AD700 definitely is the winner for me when it comes to gaming.
   
  They are both good for locating sound, but the AD700 sounds clearer to me in times of heavy action. Also the ambient map sounds are not so prominent/distracting compared to the 598.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Calpis: Thanks! I was thinking of patching the controller/chat audio into the mixer that way...am I right to say you're using the female RCA to female 3.5 to input mic audio into the mix? But how do you know which RCA cable to patch it into?


 

 iirc, mic audio is the left channel/first pole. If not, just swap the adapter to the other rca plug. Also I forgot that you'd have to split the headset audio in order to get it to com into your headphones in both ears, the way I have it drawn will only have the chat audio coming in on one side.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I love my KSC75 so much, so I want the best I can get in that form factor. I tend to reach for my KSC75 over my other cans when watching movies, and whatnot because of how ridiculously comfortable they are. My KSC75 is starting to distort the bass every once in awhile, so I think its time to put them to rest. They served me incredibly well.
> 
> I'm looking for a beast clip on as my main comfort can.
> 
> ...


 

  
  I've heard 3 different pairs of KSC75s over time and they've all followed a trend where they eventually begin to distort and make a "buzz" sound with certain bassy notes.  I think all pairs of KSC75's will do this eventually with enough use.  Something about their design.  The bass becomes loose and rattles.  Its not a huge deal for me.
   
  I think another pair of KSC75 will eventually have the same problem I think. 
   
  That "82 portable headphone" review thread has some clip-ons, if you decide on  a different pair be sure to post about it, as I like the clip-ons as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mitos, the way to connect non gaming amps to game systems is by using their composite or component cables, and attaching only the red/white audio cables to your amps, either straight to the RCA audio in or getting an RCA to 3.5mm cable and connecting it to the 3.5mm line in (as is my case on the E9). I'm not entirely sure but if you have a DAC/AMP combo with an optical audio in, this will work as well.

The only reason why I don't suggest it often is because a gaming amp with Dolby Headphone is still impressive than any other amp that is plain stereo. But that's just me.

For the hard to drive headphones, I just hook up a cable between the gaming amps headphone out to a music amps line in. Works better than you might think.

Shamrock, the lack of bass really helps you focus on all the detail when using the AD700. The HD598 is just better balanced for all purposes, and doesn't lag behind much in just plain sound whoring. The AD700 also has a more boosted treble which gives people the impression that its clearer. All these things make the AD700 such a good competitive gaming can, and why its so popular. I'd still take the HD598 over it for its refinement, comfort, and better balance.


----------



## mitos

Thanks mate. Yeah, I was planning on using my HD650, but obviously it's hard to drive than my HD201, which really aren't too great for gaming.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mitos, the way to connect non gaming amps to game systems is by using their composite or component cables, and attaching only the red/white audio cables to your amps, either straight to the RCA audio in or getting an RCA to 3.5mm cable and connecting it to the 3.5mm line in (as is my case on the E9). I'm not entirely sure but if you have a DAC/AMP combo with an optical audio in, this will work as well.
> 
> The only reason why I don't suggest it often is because a gaming amp with Dolby Headphone is still impressive than any other amp that is plain stereo. But that's just me.
> 
> For the hard to drive headphones, I just hook up a cable between the gaming amps headphone out to a music amps line in. Works better than you might think.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mitos said:


> Thanks mate. Yeah, I was planning on using my HD650, but obviously it's hard to drive than my HD201, which really aren't too great for gaming.


 
  I was planning for months to get the HD650 for gaming. Once I eventually got a pair (for music), I did give them a shot with the mixamp, and they are about the worst headphone in existence in combination with DH.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





calpis said:


> iirc, mic audio is the left channel/first pole. If not, just swap the adapter to the other rca plug. Also I forgot that you'd have to split the headset audio in order to get it to com into your headphones in both ears, the way I have it drawn will only have the chat audio coming in on one side.


 


  What the-...but then--....
  Yeah ok, that MixAmp is looking real good right now.


----------



## kingice10

Hi guys, anyone tried the Sorround Headphone Headzone Home HT lately? I was browsing throught the JH3A Information thread and saw a suggestion coming from @Warp08.
   

   
  It's a home setup that I want to try also for gaming. I just thought I want to share this info to you and make some impressions.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





kingice10 said:


> Hi guys, anyone tried the Sorround Headphone Headzone Home HT lately? I was browsing throught the JH3A Information thread and saw a suggestion coming from @Warp08.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a home setup that I want to try also for gaming. I just thought I want to share this info to you and make some impressions.


 


  I saw this before, looks ridiculous and pointless.


----------



## mitos

Thanks for the heads up. I dont really want to buy anymore equipment for the time being tbh. I don't think LCD2 is viable idea, cause of the weight. I guess I'll have to stick to my HD201s.
  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> I was planning for months to get the HD650 for gaming. Once I eventually got a pair (for music), I did give them a shot with the mixamp, and they are about the worst headphone in existence in combination with DH.


----------



## BlutoSlice

To offer another perspective.. its the mixamp that is not up to the job amping the HD650 not its combination with Dolby Headphone.
   
  I used a Xonar DX and or STX with Dolby headphone with a Matrix M-stage with good results ( BFBC2, L4D2 etc). Adding an amp after the mixamp would see similar benefit as would be for any power hungry headphone.
   
  IMO the HD650 is a nice semi casual gaming headphone, the soundstage and imaging are fine and the open back helps with positioning when using DH.
   
  Saying that I would not recommend it if your are primarily a competitive FPS gamer but as an all rounder leaning to the music listener I still rate it.
   
   
  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> I was planning for months to get the HD650 for gaming. Once I eventually got a pair (for music), I did give them a shot with the mixamp, and they are about the worst headphone in existence in combination with DH.


----------



## maverickronin

The Beyer headzone is just stupidly expensive for what it does.  I can see using it if you're loaded and want an easy all in one solution, but most people would be better served by cobbling together some manner of software or hardware solution.
   
  The HD650 does quite well with the surround virtualization/HRTF built into ffdshow for movies.  The best point of comparison with MLE's list is probably the DT990/600s which I used to own.  The stage with those was noticeably bigger but I don't remember how the imaging compared.
   
  Something that might be worth a try is the Fostex T50RP.  My modded pair has a larger soundstage than my HD650s with almost pinpoint imaging, even with plain stereo.  Ffdshow's HRTF (with movies) and Isone (with music) improve this immensely.  They really put the stage in front of you.  The bass is easy to tune as well.  A piece of tape can easily change it from a single player, bass-light, detail whoring can to an immersive single player can full of deep and powerful bass.
   
  That's just based on its movie performance though.  I don't know how much of that is transferable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Beyer headzone has been posted a couple of times. In any case the one posted ISN'T the one made for gaming. That's the one with head tracking which is USELESS, as it changes the sound relative to where your head is current fixated on. Unless you are planning on gaming while looking away from the screen, this contraption mainly works just for music concerts and other things where you don't have to look at the screen. Who's gonna do that WHILE gaming? Lol.

The Headzone GAME (not pictured above), is the one that sounds like a glorified Dolby Headphone DSP, where it will give you a home theater setup in your headphones, and SHOULD in theory do better than said DH, CMSS, Silent Cinema, and other virtual surround DSPs. I'd love to try it, but that is one prohibitively expensive gaming amp.


----------



## chowbabyloving

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> I was planning for months to get the HD650 for gaming. Once I eventually got a pair (for music), I did give them a shot with the mixamp, and they are about the worst headphone in existence in combination with DH.


 
  Did you use them with the stock cord?  I have a Blue Dragon V3 cord or something like that and I'm told it makes a big difference.  Overall, I didn't find my 650s to be horrific, but my other headphones are AKG 701 and Beyer 990s so maybe I have crappy ears.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





blutoslice said:


> *To offer another perspective.. its the mixamp that is not up to the job amping the HD650 not its combination with Dolby Headphone.*
> 
> I used a Xonar DX and or STX with Dolby headphone with a Matrix M-stage with good results ( BFBC2, L4D2 etc). Adding an amp after the mixamp would see similar benefit as would be for any power hungry headphone.
> 
> ...


 

 Not true my friend. The T1 and HD800 both sound phenomenal through the 5.8 mixamp alone.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





chowbabyloving said:


> Did you use them with the stock cord?  I have a Blue Dragon V3 cord or something like that and I'm told it makes a big difference.  Overall, I didn't find my 650s to be horrific, but my other headphones are AKG 701 and Beyer 990s so maybe I have crappy ears.


 

 That's kind of a neat situation actually, 650 fits almost perfectly between those two cans. No I didn't recable it, I returned them pretty fast, not my kind of sound.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mitos said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I dont really want to buy anymore equipment for the time being tbh. I don't think LCD2 is viable idea, cause of the weight. I guess I'll have to stick to my HD201s.


 


  LCD2 is awful with DH as well, sounds like your own footsteps are two feet to the left of you.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Beyer headzone has been posted a couple of times. In any case the one posted ISN'T the one made for gaming. That's the one with head tracking which is USELESS, as it changes the sound relative to where your head is current fixated on. Unless you are planning on gaming while looking away from the screen, this contraption mainly works just for music concerts and other things where you don't have to look at the screen. Who's gonna do that WHILE gaming? Lol.
> 
> The Headzone GAME (not pictured above), is the one that sounds like a glorified Dolby Headphone DSP, where it will give you a home theater setup in your headphones, and SHOULD in theory do better than said DH, CMSS, Silent Cinema, and other virtual surround DSPs. I'd love to try it, but that is one prohibitively expensive gaming amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That pic NEVER gets old. XD


----------



## phantasmor

i want to ask something, trying not to hijack the thread, but i want to know if there is am amp that adds virtual 5.1/7.1 like the astro mixamp other than the turtle beech dss, and how the dss stacks up against the mixamp


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





phantasmor said:


> i want to ask something, trying not to hijack the thread, but i want to know if there is am amp that adds virtual 5.1/7.1 like the astro mixamp other than the turtle beech dss, and how the dss stacks up against the mixamp


 


  Astro Mixamp> All
   
  The Tritton receiver thing also does 5.1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tritton AX720. Same price as the wired Mixamp, less clutter as it stays near your game consoles, and all controls are in line. PLUS, free headset! It does have its hiss as a tradeoff, though I've used it and recommend it regardless.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ylskf said:


> Which kind of headphone purchase? I am a new ...


 


  What do you want to use your headphones for?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Tritton AX720. Same price as the wired Mixamp, less clutter as it stays near your game consoles, and all controls are in line. PLUS, free headset! It does have its hiss as a tradeoff, though I've used it and recommend it regardless.


 


  Why not just go for the 5.8 Mixamp at that point? Trittons are awful, I've had 2 and I hated the first even when it was my very first gaming headphone, and that says a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> Why not just go for the 5.8 Mixamp at that point? Trittons are awful, I've had 2 and I hated the first even when it was my very first gaming headphone, and that says a lot.




I think you're exaggerating. the AX720 headset may not hold a candle to our fave gaming headphones, but they aren't that bad for beginners looking into gaming with a headset. I liked it more than the VERY popular Astro A40s, which to me is saying a lot. Besides, the main attraction isn't the headset, it's the AMP that works just well as the Mixamp, can be bought locally (Best Buy), and you won't have to incur a ridiculous shipping charge. Best Buy has a good return policy too, so should you not like the AX720 package, it can just be returned. I believe even Walmart stocks it.

The 5.8 is quite expensive when you factor everything (it will run you near $200 when adding the rechargeable battery pack...and trust me you'll want it as this thing eats up my Eneloops, and not to mention the PS3 chat cable which is also extra) and is still more cumbersome than the AX720...just that you're not directly tethered to the console. Just because you have a more expensive taste doesn't make the Ax720 useless. It's a robust package that appeals to quite a lot of people.

The AX720 is entry level headset, no doubt. Those who wanna get into this hobby should START here, and should they wanna upgrade, all they have to do is upgrade the headset later on, and use it with the AX720 decoder box. Easy breezy.


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

I'm sure this has been asked a million times in this thread, but how would I go about using a 3.5mm headphone and a 3.5mm microphone on this thing? I heard you needed an adapter that didn't come with the mixamp itself. Will I still be able to use the voice mixer? And I've read somewhere about not being able to use this with HDMI. What's that about?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamps come with a Y cable. You plug your cans and mic in. That's it.

Where did you hear about it not being able to be used with HDMI? Of course it can.... @_@

However to get the true Dolby Digital signal, you have to run an optical digital cable from the game console straight to the Mixamp. Getting the audio from the HDMI feed will most likely result in a downmixed signal.... most likely 2.1 stereo, which will just ruin the Dolby Headphone processing.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I don't know about the 720, but the AX360 and AXPro were both absolutely worthless even when the best audio I knew back then was iBuds. Maybe the 720s aren't god-awful, but I'm sure they're not great. The A40s suck too, so that's not saying much. The only headsets I can take seriously after trying so many are the PX5, PC360, and hopefully that new one you showed.
   
  Yes the 5.8 was expensive, especially for me because I paid for 1 day shipping and bought 4 accessories, but it was more then worth it because I can use audiophile cans without issue (mostly) and wireless (mostly). But if you don't have the $, sure go for the 720 pack I guess. Or "Xjacker" (whoever thought of that name is just amazing) if it's any good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FxOaI8PHxw&feature=feedu

MLGSteggy's review of the PX5.

What I get from the PX5 is that if you're into heavily personalizing your equipment, this may work for you. Personally, I just want something that works, and works well without much input from me. That's the PC360 for me.

That 2.4ghz frequency is also a huge dealbreaker to many.


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

You sure? I heard they don't come with the Y cable anymore, is there a place where I can buy it if it doesn't?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mixamps come with a Y cable. You plug your cans and mic in. That's it.
> 
> Where did you hear about it not being able to be used with HDMI? Of course it can.... @_@
> 
> However to get the true Dolby Digital signal, you have to run an optical digital cable from the game console straight to the Mixamp. Getting the audio from the HDMI feed will most likely result in a downmixed signal.... most likely 2.1 stereo, which will just ruin the Dolby Headphone processing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Mixamp 5.8 definitely came with a Y cable, as did my OLD wired Mixamp. I'm not sure about the new wired Mixamps however, but I'm pretty sure Astro would put it on their site for sale if it's not included in the new Mixamps.


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

I see. If I run the hmdi through the tv and then plug in using optical out, would it be the same as optical through the console?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





judgedreadlocks said:


> You sure? I heard they don't come with the Y cable anymore, is there a place where I can buy it if it doesn't?


 
  Seems that the MixAmp doesn't, but the 5.8 does.
   
http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_manual.pdf
  Page 10, Package Contents -- no indication of Y cable
  Page 11, Optional Cables -- there's the Y cable (as "Y adapter").
   
http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp58_Manual.pdf
  Package Contents lists the Y cable
   
  JudgeDreadLocks: do you live near a Radio Shack or equivalent store? They might be able to help you out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because the TV will more than likely downmix all audio signals to 2 channel, so all you're getting from the optical out is just that. This is why I'm saying to feed the optical straight from the console.

There's almost NO TVs that keep a Dolby Digital signal through their Audio out...


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FxOaI8PHxw&feature=feedu
> 
> MLGSteggy's review of the PX5.
> 
> ...


 
  I already know it's trappings having used every TB headset and owning the cans I do. It's as good as it gets for soundwhoring+mic and is extremely nice for kicking back, what with wireless, bluetooth, etc. I agree that sound needs to be amazing without my editing, but since I only use it for MP and it sounds good enough while providing maximum footstep advantage and amazing utility. Also, I used to use Steggy's reviews back when I was into the whole Turtle Beach/Astro/Tritton thing but they're of no use to me now. As for the PC360, if someone desires an all in one can w/ mic and is on a limited budget, by all means.


----------



## kilword

Ugg the choices. I'm going to be selling my HD600s and I need a good headphone for my laptop and maybe xbox for gaming and movies with some music. I want something that will be both really fun.I do enjoy the bass rumble from explosions and those type of things but like a well balanced audio sound too. I also want a least somewhat decent sound accuracy on pinpointing things.
  Personally I'd like something I can use without a amp. But don't mind getting a cheaper little amp if needed.
  I do already have a DAC and tube amp but I move my laptop around a lot and would prefer to get a small amp thats easier to move around if I need to use a amp.
  Any pushes in a certain direction are helpful.


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

Quote:


eric_c said:


> Seems that the MixAmp doesn't, but the 5.8 does.
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_manual.pdf
> Page 10, Package Contents -- no indication of Y cable
> ...


 

 I do, but I think I know what you're talking about. I have this:

  Is that what it is? I just want to make sure it isn't a special Y adapter.
  EDIT: After further research, I've found that this isn't the adapter I need, is different. 
   

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, because the TV will more than likely downmix all audio signals to 2 channel, so all you're getting from the optical out is just that. This is why I'm saying to feed the optical straight from the console.
> 
> There's almost NO TVs that keep a Dolby Digital signal through their Audio out...


 

 I see. I've seen a few complaints about the hiss, is it really bad? Is it any reason to get the regular one over this one? Also, any suggestions on a mic to use with it?


----------



## phantasmor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Tritton AX720. Same price as the wired Mixamp, less clutter as it stays near your game consoles, and all controls are in line. PLUS, free headset! It does have its hiss as a tradeoff, though I've used it and recommend it regardless.


 


  i just found the base with no headphones for 44$, so that is fine with me!
   
  it's 50$ with shipping added in
   
  and you are sure that this is just as good as the mixamp right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yess, it just has some hiss, which you won't be paying attention to when gaming. Other than that, it has the same decoding as the Mixamp.

As for wired vs 5.8 Mixamps, wired has zero hiss, but more clutter. That's the main difference. Also, wired has an RCA input (think Wii use for Dolby Pro Logic II, which does work), as well as a Digital Coaxial input (which is rarely used these days BUT, you can buy a digital coax to optical digital adapter which will give you TWO optical inputs on the Mixamp. This works always, as opposed to gambling on optical splitters/switchers which rarely ever work).


----------



## phantasmor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yess, it just has some hiss, which you won't be paying attention to when gaming. Other than that, it has the same decoding as the Mixamp.
> 
> As for wired vs 5.8 Mixamps, wired has zero hiss, but more clutter. That's the main difference. Also, wired has an RCA input (think Wii use for Dolby Pro Logic II, which does work), as well as a Digital Coaxial input (which is rarely used these days BUT, you can buy a digital coax to optical digital adapter which will give you TWO optical inputs on the Mixamp. This works always, as opposed to gambling on optical splitters/switchers which rarely ever work).


 

 how can i hook up a headset with it, do i use a ps/2 cord or will an s video cord work? i want to buy the adapter that goes with the headset but i want to know that i have the right cord to plug into it, it has just the decoder, the power, and the 5.1 optical cable that plugs into the ps3 and 360 console, also is there a way of buying the inline remote cable that breaks off from the headset? does anyone have one lying around that i can buy?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





kilword said:


> Ugg the choices. I'm going to be selling my HD600s and I need a good headphone for my laptop and maybe xbox for gaming and movies with some music. I want something that will be both really fun.I do enjoy the bass rumble from explosions and those type of things but like a well balanced audio sound too. I also want a least somewhat decent sound accuracy on pinpointing things.
> Personally I'd like something I can use without a amp. But don't mind getting a cheaper little amp if needed.
> I do already have a DAC and tube amp but I move my laptop around a lot and would prefer to get a small amp thats easier to move around if I need to use a amp.
> Any pushes in a certain direction are helpful.


 
  Denon D2000. Amazing for the price, still a favorite of mine for music, extremely good for SP, pretty good in MP w/ DH (as long as bass isn't getting in the way as the D2K is muddier than the D7K). Works very well without an amp too. If your budget is higher, I can recommend some even better.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yess, it just has some hiss, which you won't be paying attention to when gaming. Other than that, it has the same decoding as the Mixamp.
> 
> As for wired vs 5.8 Mixamps, wired has zero hiss, but more clutter. That's the main difference. Also, wired has an RCA input (think Wii use for Dolby Pro Logic II, which does work), as well as a Digital Coaxial input (which is rarely used these days BUT, you can buy a digital coax to optical digital adapter which will give you TWO optical inputs on the Mixamp. This works always, as opposed to gambling on optical splitters/switchers which rarely ever work).


 


  There is hiss with every one of these mixamps, DSS, etc. The Astro mixamp overall has the least, and the 5.8 has more than the wired. It makes using some headphones (D7K, T1) with both game and voice up impossible, but on some (AD700, D2000) it is barely noticeable on the 5.8. That's the primary reason I didn't just go ahead and use my D7000 for everything, just too much static for mic play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired Mixamp has zero hiss on certain headphones, and very VERY minor hiss with others. It may as well be no hiss, that's how much of a non-issue it is.

The AX720 hisses at all times, about as much as the 5.8 does at loud volumes. Still, it shouldn't be a problem when actually playing.

Phantasmor, I don't understand you question. Optical cables go to the Mixamp from the consoles. The headsets go to the Mixamp via the 3.5mm input.


----------



## phantasmor

Quote:  





>





> Phantasmor, I don't understand you question. Optical cables go to the Mixamp from the consoles. The headsets go to the Mixamp via the 3.5mm input.


 

 OK, i bought the ax 720 decoder, you know, the box the headset plugs into, without the headphones, and i feel stupid now, because i realized after i bought it they use something that looks like either a s video or ps/2 jack, i want to know which one it is, and if i can buy the inline remote cable which plugs into the jack, and separates from the headset, because i already bought the thing, so i might as well make use of it


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

Anyone have any mic suggestions? Is there any mic that actually clips onto the headphones? I don't want to use that zalman clip on, I'd rather a boom. The problem is I don't want to stick anything on my FA-011s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

phantasmor said:


> OK, i bought the ax 720 decoder, you know, the box the headset plugs into, without the headphones, and i feel stupid now, because i realized after i bought it they use something that looks like either a s video or ps/2 jack, i want to know which one it is, and if i can buy the inline remote cable which plugs into the jack, and separates from the headset, because i already bought the thing, so i might as well make use of it




I could've sworn I replied tothis. Stupid phone.

The AX720's 'puck' can be separated to expose two 3.5mm inputs. No extra accessories needed.



For the love of headfi, PLEASE don't ever buy Zalman clip ons. They're pure garbage for most people. Get the dealextreme clip on that costs less than $3 and is BETTER. I speak from experience. The Zalman is trash.


----------



## phantasmor

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 i didn't buy the ax720 headset, it was not included, i do not get that cable, i do not have the headset therefore i do not not get the 'puck' therefore i can not remove it from the cable which i do not get, that is my problem i just bought the decoder/box/amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... then looks like you're gonna have to go to the Tritton's site and look to see if they sell the puck separately, because it IS essential. Without it, you're screwed.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You do realize the zalman clip on is almost universally recommended for gaming, right? I, nor tons of other people, have never had any trouble with them.


----------



## Phos

Beyerdynamic also sells the headzone amp on its own for the low, low price of more than a thousand dollars.  
   
  Of course, if the base Beyer A1 (which this unit seems to be based on) is wroth as much as it costs, the This particular Headzone seems like an excellent jack of all trades as it appears to be a high quality DAC and amp in the same box as 5.1 audio.  This of course assumes that the headzone's amp actually is an A1.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





phos said:


> Beyerdynamic also sells the headzone amp on its own for the low, low price of more than a thousand dollars.
> 
> Of course, if the base Beyer A1 (which this unit seems to be based on) is wroth as much as it costs, the This particular Headzone seems like an excellent jack of all trades as it appears to be a high quality DAC and amp in the same box as 5.1 audio.  This of course assumes that the headzone's amp actually is an A1.


 

  
  It isn't, the Headzone came out before the A1 IIRC.


----------



## TMRaven

I too heard lots of negative reviews about the zalman clip on mic.  The general consensus was that it was straight-up awful for console gaming, but more than passable for pc gaming.
   
  Labtec LVA-7330 is a great choice for attachable mic anyways, I use one for my AD700s.  You can usually find some on ebay.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I too heard lots of negative reviews about the zalman clip on mic.  The general consensus was that it was straight-up awful for console gaming, but more than passable for pc gaming.
> 
> Labtec LVA-7330 is a great choice for attachable mic anyways, I use one for my AD700s.  You can usually find some on ebay.


 


  Well the weeks I spent researching gaming headphones/headsets way back say otherwise, because every time someone would mention headphones they would add in "+ zalman mic". Also I use it for both console and PC gaming, it's good for the former and very good for the latter. I'd do the attach mic mod if I was still using my AD700s though.


----------



## Eric_C

Turtle Beach sells its X41's boom mic for $8.
  Hmmm.
http://store.turtlebeach.com/x41microphoneboom.aspx
   
  Edit: Eh, nevermind. Comments on Amazon indicate the mic is bad.
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Wireless-Digital-Headphone-Surround-360/dp/B002KSPKRS


----------



## crinacle

Hm. I tried the HFI-580 on Black Ops, and must say that they fit the bill for fun gameplay. Though lacking the depth, soundstage is very spacious and surprisingly good for pinpointing sounds, though helicopter positions are a little harder to pinpoint due to the headphone's lack of 'height'. Competitively, these won't do as well as the other open headphones, but it's the best closed gaming headphone I've tried so far. Although, I haven't tried any Beyers yet...


----------



## Jae304

Truth be told, you're both right.  The Zalman clip on works great for PC gaming but is a big toss up when it comes to console gaming.  Works well for some, doesn't work at all for many.  Though I don't see how you didn't come across that in all your research, there are tons of reviews out there that say the mic sucked for console gaming.  
   
  One more vote for the deal extreme clip on -- don't think you can find a more effecient use of 3 bucks.  That thing works amazingly well.  
   
  The Labtec 7330 is great for mic modding, if you can find one.  They're damn near impossible to find nowadays so they really shouldn't even be recommended anymore.
  
  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> Well the weeks I spent researching gaming headphones/headsets way back say otherwise, because every time someone would mention headphones they would add in "+ zalman mic". Also I use it for both console and PC gaming, it's good for the former and very good for the latter. I'd do the attach mic mod if I was still using my AD700s though.


----------



## TMRaven

http://cgi.ebay.com/K79931-Labtec-LVA-7330-Clearvoice-Gamer-Microphone-NIB-/330572443005?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf7a72d7d#ht_2106wt_905
   
  That really didn't take too long to find.  If you can find them, then they're easily recommendable.


----------



## Jae304

Tritton also sells their boom mic for about 10 bucks if that's what you're looking for -- it's a great mic.  You can find similiarly good working boom mics on Amazon for less than that though.
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Turtle Beach sells its X41's boom mic for $8.
> Hmmm.
> http://store.turtlebeach.com/x41microphoneboom.aspx
> 
> ...


----------



## Jae304

The Labtec is really hit or miss on ebay though, that's the only reason i say it shouldn't really be recommended.  I was looking for one less than a month ago and the only listing was for a bulk order of 50.  I do agree with you though, great mic if you can find it.
  
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/K79931-Labtec-LVA-7330-Clearvoice-Gamer-Microphone-NIB-/330572443005?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf7a72d7d#ht_2106wt_905
> 
> That really didn't take too long to find.  If you can find them, then they're easily recommendable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had to practically scream into my Zalman to pick up my voice, it just wants to pick up everything BUT my voice. The Deal Extreme mic works just as well as my PC360 mic. That's saying a lot.

People BLINDLY recommend the Zalman. Those I know pretty much all say its garbage. I can easily say its one of the worst pieces of filth I've ever bought.

I too had the Labtec LVA 7330 and used it with my old Creative Aurvana Live. Worked like a champ. But as mentioned earlier, very hard to find at times, and prices have gone up.


----------



## obazavil

+1 vote for DealExtreme mic


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> Tritton also sells their boom mic for about 10 bucks if that's what you're looking for -- it's a great mic.  You can find similiarly good working boom mics on Amazon for less than that though.


 


  This one?
http://gamestore.eshopsale.com/tritton-ax360-cclip-mic#


----------



## phantasmor

i am having a dilemma, hd 555 or ad700 for the purpose of Dolby headphone?, i do not know which to get, either way i am also debating between buying used with no box for 70$ or looking and hoping to find them for 80$ which everyone keeps saying you can find them for, anyone have a good link to buy them...


----------



## mafiamike

Hello gamers, I would like to purchase one of these two, akg 702's or senn's 598 for just gaming only. I don't need a mic. I like treble and clarity for postioning (footsteps). Which one would be better for me?


----------



## rayuma

Quote: 





phantasmor said:


> i am having a dilemma, hd 555 or ad700 for the purpose of Dolby headphone?, i do not know which to get, either way i am also debating between buying used with no box for 70$ or looking and hoping to find them for 80$ which everyone keeps saying you can find them for, anyone have a good link to buy them...


 


  I would go with the AD700, they're great for gaming.


----------



## rayuma

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Hello gamers, I would like to purchase one of these two, akg 702's or senn's 598 for just gaming only. I don't need a mic. I like treble and clarity for postioning (footsteps). Which one would be better for me?


 


  Both are fairly good headphones, I would go with the one you can find a better deal for. I purchased the 598s so I am a bit biased.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K70x is more of a detail whoring headphone than the HD598. No other headphone I have used can pick up as much detail as the K70x. The huge soundstage also lends itself very well in Dolby Headphone gaming. If you're not using a mic, the K70x performs quite well just off the Mixamp alone for gaming purposes.

Otherwise, the HD598 is awesome itself, much easier to drive, and cheaper.


----------



## Jae304

That one is probably good too but this is the one I've tried:
http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=4810&idCategory=322
  
  It has a small "lip" on the plug end of it to secure it to the Tritton headphones that shouldn't get in the way but can be easily removed if it does.
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> This one?
> http://gamestore.eshopsale.com/tritton-ax360-cclip-mic#


----------



## Eric_C

Jae304: just to be clear, what type of connector does that Tritton mic use?


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hey guys sorry to revisit an old question, but this is on Xbox 360 game/chat audio mixing (again).
> Anyone heard of Xjacker? They claim to be able to amp and mix the 2 audio signals, plus adapt a regular PC headset's mic for use on 360. Here's the link:
> http://www.xjacker.com/instructions_gaming_headset_amp_kit.php
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> The way their setup is, is exactly how I have my xbox setup but just smaller. Game audio goes to my headphones from my H&K receiver using DH while I have my mic plugged directly into my controller. I was hoping that that thing was just a small puck that only mixed the audio and not amp it... something that I will never find :/ I'd have better luck finding a small mixer for turntables and using its crossfader... scratch that, going to look into how to make crossfader. It'd be so much easier if I just gave in and got a wired mixamp.


 

 I actually have one of these, and have become quite a fan as of late.  As it turns out, there is a software mixer in the 360's menus that let you adjust the mix levels between game sounds and chat.  Then I use their amp to boost the overall levels to something pleasing.  I had thought that it would be difficult to make on-the-fly adjustments to the mix between game sounds and chat.  But as I've found out, my initial settings were pretty spot on as I've never had to adjust it any further - and have never had a problem hearing both the game and chat.  Audiophile quality it is not, but then for $20 it really can't be expected to be.  That having been said, it does sound reasonably good.  There is a review for it at Voodoo Extreme (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/reviews/60588/Soniq-Rush-Gaming-Headset-Amp-Kit-Review) that has some more perspectives if anyone is curious about it.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Jae304: just to be clear, what type of connector does that Tritton mic use?


 

 3.5mm stereo plug

   
  The mic itself is made of  flexible rubber.  Not quite as flexible as a traditional boom mic, but voice quality is very good when I've used it with the Astro mixamp on ps3.


----------



## Eric_C

Jae304, warrenpchi: thanks for shedding light on various issues. welcome to Head-Fi warrenpchi!
  Jae: I ended up buying a clip-on Aiwa mic from my local, mom-n-pop hardware store. The store's never let me down, and it's popular with DIY'ers so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'll report back after my next gaming session.


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Jae304, warrenpchi: thanks for shedding light on various issues. welcome to Head-Fi warrenpchi!


 

 Thanks Eric_C!  Truth be told, I have reading here for about a year now, but I never joined because frankly the depth of knowledge that all of you possess can be damn intimidating.  Just found it hard to see what it was that I could contribute. However, finding your post made be bite the bullet and finally join.  Since I just happen to have one of those, it was the perfect opportunity to post something that might be of help somehow.


----------



## Jae304

Cool, definitely give us your impressions. It's good to know the viable mic options that are out there not to mention supporting the local business is always a good thing.  If you don't mind me asking, how much was the clip on you bought?  
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Jae304, warrenpchi: thanks for shedding light on various issues. welcome to Head-Fi warrenpchi!
> Jae: I ended up buying a clip-on Aiwa mic from my local, mom-n-pop hardware store. The store's never let me down, and it's popular with DIY'ers so I figured I'd give it a shot. I'll report back after my next gaming session.


----------



## Croozer

I grabbed a Zalman ZM-MIC1 clip on mic for 8 bucks shipped.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> I actually have one of these, and have become quite a fan as of late.  *As it turns out, there is a software mixer in the 360's menus that let you adjust the mix levels between game sounds and chat. * Then I use their amp to boost the overall levels to something pleasing.  I had thought that it would be difficult to make on-the-fly adjustments to the mix between game sounds and chat.  But as I've found out, my initial settings were pretty spot on as I've never had to adjust it any further - and have never had a problem hearing both the game and chat.  Audiophile quality it is not, but then for $20 it really can't be expected to be.  That having been said, it does sound reasonably good.  There is a review for it at Voodoo Extreme (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/reviews/60588/Soniq-Rush-Gaming-Headset-Amp-Kit-Review) that has some more perspectives if anyone is curious about it.


 

 I've always wondered why this does nothing for me. Voice volume is identical 1-10 volume, it's only muted at 0. Game volume is identical from 0-10. Both with the mixamp+cans and PX5s. Why is this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

croozer said:


> I grabbed a Zalman ZM-MIC1 clip on mic for 8 bucks shipped.




$8 down the drain... enjoy screaming into the mic.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> I've always wondered why this does nothing for me. Voice volume is identical 1-10 volume, it's only muted at 0. Game volume is identical from 0-10. Both with the mixamp+cans and PX5s. Why is this?


 

 IIRC, that mixer only applies to when you have the chat audio set to speakers. It'll lower the game audio when someone on the other end is talking.


----------



## Croozer

mad lust envy said:


> croozer said:
> 
> 
> > I grabbed a Zalman ZM-MIC1 clip on mic for 8 bucks shipped.
> ...




I have peeps who love 'em.


----------



## phantasmor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... then looks like you're gonna have to go to the Tritton's site and look to see if they sell the puck separately, because it IS essential. Without it, you're screwed.


 


  i got the thing today it is PS/2(mouse/keyboard) and i can get a USB adapter for cheap, will that degrade the quality?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uh, what? You have an adapter that works? Just use it if you do.


----------



## FliGuyRyan

*Mad Lust Envy (and whomever else that has extensive experience with the DT770 and DT880)*,
   
  I own the Monster Turbine Pro Copper IEMs. I am a BIG fan of music. I use Logitech's 5300 5.1 computer speaker setup for my non-headphone gaming sessions, although a speaker upgrade is coming (another discussion for another day). And now, just the other day, I went out and bought a pair of Turtle Beach's P11 gaming headset, and I am REALLY disappointed. I used $60 on-ear Logitech's that I was really happy with - I picked them up one day and they literally snapped and broke. I'm not joking. Picking them up, and they broke. Just like that. Never buying Logitech again - I'm done. They don't support their keyboard/mice accessories either (sorry, mini rant).
   
  A few months back I was obsessed about getting a pair of Beyerdynamics. I had auditioned the Audio Technica M50 and Beyer DT770 (I believe Pro 80) at Guitar Center and fell in love with the DT770's sound. I had bought some Audio Technica AD700 and hated them. I couldn't get over their purple color, and the utter lack of bass (use them as a reference for me). Comfort was good, although I had to keep my head basically within a 20 degree window of tilt. Too loose...
   
  After reading up on Beyer's DT line though, I thought - and still think - I wanted the DT 880 32ohm model. But now, throwing gaming into the mix, and loving music more than ever this is my dilemma. Here are a couple of points that may guide you in advising me... if possible, please address every question in as much detail as possible please (and that _please_ in sincere by the way - from one music lover/gamer to the other).   
   
*1. Music quality over gaming quality.*
   
*2.* I'm not really into FPS (I like RTS like Company of Heroes, and when Diablo 3 comes out, I'll probably be served divorce papers, lol)
   
*3.* I game and listen to music at night in a room sometimes accompanied by my wife when she reads. This isn't to be considered priority, just more info. She always asks me to turn my speakers down - hence the headphone search. If they're open, and leak sound then so be it - it's better than speakers jamming out.
   
*4.* I really, *REALLY* like my Monster Turbine Pro Copper IEMs. I think I lucked out and got a pair of IEMs that match my listening taste - I did a lot of research and it paid off in spades. If I can mimic these in a headphone for music (and gaming second) then awesome... And, I can't use them for gaming. Just can't.
   
*5.* The mic... yeah... that stingy mic. The one thing I love about gaming headsets are that they're for gaming, and they're a headset - hence the mic. So what are my options on this if I get a DT line headphone? I have a Zalman and my bro-in-law doesn't like the sound compared to my old Logitech and current TB P11. Can you recommend a better mic solution than the Zalman clip-on type?
   
*6.* I couldn't read all 99 pages of this thread (wanted to, but let's be honest here... time is of the essence, and is something I'm not rich in), but I'm very interested in, A. amping via amp and B. Mixamp for gaming and possibly combing the two. What are my best options for a desktop or portable amp and about the Mixamp - is it worth it? Is there anything better? And is it enough to "amp" with another dedicated amp (music, etc...)?
   
*7.* With all this said, it will be bought in stages over the course of probably 2 years. Headphones/mic first. Then Mixamp/amp second, etc... please take this into account for the "long run" as I don't have the time, money, patience to go through buying and auditioning. I know it's a tall order, but I'd really like to "hit it big" like I did with my Pro Copper. I would say $200 is the max on anything except the headphones in which $300 would be the max.
   
  Now, like I mentioned earlier, I've heard the DT770. I LOVED it for the short time I heard it but I was scared by the closed design (always heard "bad things" about no soundstage and too much bass, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc, etc - you know how it is). But, overall the DT880 seemed to "fit" me better when I read descriptions. I read your descriptions of both and *I would like further clarification* as I assume the DT770 were bass monsters, the DT880 were in between (more Pro Copper like) and the DT990 were for treble. This isn't the case I suspect so _please-oh-please_ clarify in depth with all the experience you have in you. I truly believe the Beyerdynamic line is where it's at for me, so if at all possible, please don't recommend something else. If you have to fine, but I'm completely in the dark. I at least know that the DT770 were the best headphones (and that I'd be satisfied with that sound forever) I have ever listened to. Now, if what I'm asking for doesn't exist... then please  recommend for me headphones for gaming and headphones for music. The music I listen that comes to mind is in the order of Coldplay, Maroon 5, Over the Rhine, Dr. Dre, Blue October, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Sara Mclaughlin, The Avett Brothers, The Beatles, "decade" music (60s, 70s, 80s, 90s) and other bands which highlight the mid and upper with detailed sharp sound. I'm not a bass head, and Dr. Dre-type music is only occasional, but I do appreciate good bass. I understand the DT770 Pro 80 are more bass-prone, so I would probably aim for the 32ohm of both the DT770 and DT880 unless you recommend the 600ohm with an amp later on - even though that amp would come a year later. These will only be listened to at home by the way - hence the Pro Copper for the road.
   
  I really appreciate all you have done for this forum by the way. You have saved us a lot of time and frustration...
   
  With a lot of thanks and a lot of audio love,
   
  -RC


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since you're not really into FPS gaming, go straight for the DT880. they won't let you down. They're not bass monsters by any means (the DT770 Pro 80 you demoed are bass monsters, so any other Beyer won't have as much bass. However, the DT880 is very well balanced, and isn't really lacking anything. If it weren't for their lack of supreme rear positioning for FPS, they would be my fave open gaming headphone, after the HE4 in terms of catering to practically everything you can throw at it.

The DT990 actually has MORE bass and more treble than the DT880, if you don't wanna give up too much bass having demoed the DT770 pro 80, the DT990 would be the next logical step, though the treble is up there so you have to be wary.

Actually the DT770 pro 80 has a VERY large soundstage for a closed headphone. Larger than quite a few open headphones.

1. DT880 for the most balance. DT990 for more bass and treble. I prefer both to the DT770s, though I wanted more bass than the DT880 for music, though the bass is NOT lacking.

2. Understood.

3. Though headphones leak, if she doesn't mind speakers at low volume, then headphones shouldn't pose a problem even at loud volumes, even the DT880/990.

4. Sorry, I don't know the Pro Copper's sound signature.

5. Dealextreme clip on mic. MUCH better than the Zalman, and you should feel right at home, as they are similar, expect the Dealextreme clip on actually works.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080

Yes they're cheap, and effective. They'll just take a month to get to you though.

6. Mixamp can drive 600ohm beyers without voice chat, and they work well for gaming purposes, though I'd get a 250ohm instead as the 600ohms tend to clip and distort at times through the Mixamp. However, the Mixamp is not suitable for music. I personally think that the Mixamp makes gaming SO much more enjoyable. I would never game without it. If you're gonna choose between a game and music amp... I dunno. I'd save up and get both, though I guess if you can live with plain stereo and not virtual surround, a music amp first.

7. If you're getting a Beyer, an AMP MUST be bought with them. They sound like piss without one. Even the 32ohms... Beyers are bright, so probably a tube amp would benefit them most, though the E9 is an affordable and powerful amp that works well with them, though treble won't be tamed.


----------



## Eric_C

Actually, I'm surprised MLE didn't recommend the MMX 300. It's basically a DT 770 with built-in mic, isn't it?


----------



## Alghazanth

Hey MLE,
   
  So I've had the DT990/600ohm for a while now, just decided to give em a shot with the mixamp. Very weird experience. Although they sound very similar to the 32ohm for music (but better), they are completely different in combination with the mixamp. Like an entirely different signature from the 32ohm version while gaming, although I can't say if it's for worse or better.What happened here?  The easy thing to say would be it isn't amped enough, but my T1 sounds amazing with the mixamp and very much akin to it's musical signature so that's not it. I also couldn't mix in voice chat and still maintain high game volume with the 32ohm, let alone the 600ohm 990.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. I didn't use the 320hm 990, but the 32ohm 880. I had the 600ohm DT990, which played fine off the Mixamp alone if game/voice is set to game 100% (meaning no voice chat). Fine as in most of the time. It did tend to clip/distort during some bass heavy scenes, but the E9 between the Mixamp and the cans helped out with that.

Eric_C, I never used the MMX300, let alone the 32ohm DT770s, so I don't know how well they perform. Can't recommend something I haven't tried myself. I only used the DT770/600 and DT770 Pro 80...


----------



## Croozer

mad lust envy said:


> 5. Dealextreme clip on mic. MUCH better than the Zalman, and you should feel right at home, as they are similar, expect the Dealextreme clip on actually works.
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
> 
> Yes they're cheap, and effective. They'll just take a month to get to you though.




LOL, for 2 bucks I'll order one anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Exactly. You're not losing out anything, and gaining something that actually works. Like the KSC75, it doesn't hurt just to buy them on impulse.

Damn, I really wanna hear the Yuin G1A and Yuin G2A.... <__<


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  @Alghazanth, I wish I knew why the mixer doesn't do anything for you.  But I can confirm that it does work for me.  However, calpis's explanation makes perfect sense.
   
  @calpis, if that's true, that makes so much sense.  In the instructions for the xjacker amp, they tell you to output the chat through the speakers.  Actually they tell you to output chat through both speakers and controller for some reason.  But anyway, it does work.  One would use the Xbox 360's soft mixer to adjust the mix going to their speakers (the xjacker amp in this case), which then amps the resulting mix.


----------



## TMRaven

Mixamp doesn't drive dt990/600 too well.


----------



## Headfonenut123

MLE when using the e9 with the mixamp and the 600 ohm dt 990s, when you ran the 3.5 male from the mixamp to the line in on the e9 did you have the cable going straight into the mixamp or through the green connecter on the astro y adaptor?

Got clipping and loss of sound the other week with the cable going straight into the mixamp, mixamp audio was 50/50 on game/voice, master volume was at max volume and e9 volume was quite low so was bit shocked at the audio problems


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno. I didn't use the 320hm 990, but the 32ohm 880. I had the 600ohm DT990, which played fine off the Mixamp alone if game/voice is set to game 100% (meaning no voice chat). Fine as in most of the time. It did tend to clip/distort during some bass heavy scenes, but the E9 between the Mixamp and the cans helped out with that.
> 
> Eric_C, I never used the MMX300, let alone the 32ohm DT770s, so I don't know how well they perform. Can't recommend something I haven't tried myself. I only used the DT770/600 and DT770 Pro 80...


 

 I can say now that the 600ohm 990 does indeed sound worse than the 32ohm w/ the mixamp. It was alright for shooters, had the "theater" presentation you were talking about, but with some other games like Brutal Legend, Oblivion, etc it does not sound right at all. The 32ohm I already did not like much but that was still better. Strangely enough, the T1 is also 600ohm and sounds so good through the mixamp, and the 600ohm dt990 does indeed have less recessed mids/better treble with music, but with games the mids are more recessed than ever.
   
  Is there any way to hook up my HDP or E9 to a 5.8 mixamp? If not, how do you hook it up to the wired mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp's input is super sensitive. Usually running headphones straight to it causes distortions and crackling. I tend to use an extension cable with a skinnier line, since headphones tend to have robus connections that are too heavy for the Mixamp. 

In any case, of course the 32ohm is gonna sound better off the Mixamp alone. The Mixamp wasn't made to handle 600ohm cans, which is why I ran it through the E9, and it sounded great.

When I used the Dealextreme mic, I would go:

Mixamp - Y cable - Mic on one
3.5mm male/male on the other going to the E9's line in.

Yes, you're double amping, but it doesn't noticably impact SQ. Hell, I run my E9 through my PSP's hpo, and it sounds great.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, you're double amping, but it doesn't noticably impact SQ. Hell, I run my E9 through my PSP's hpo, and it sounds great.


 

 Pretty much any amp will sound better if you unload it by hooking it to the high input impedance of something like the input of another amp, especially small and cheap ones  Relieving tiny little opamps of their obligation to push current drastically reduces the distortion they put out.  Even though lots of people who have no idea what they're talking about frown on "double amping" it actually has a decent chance of making something sound better along with adding more power.


----------



## Alghazanth

So it's impossible to connect the E9 or HDP to the 5.8 mixamp?
   
  And also, what's with the E7 doing literally NOTHING in combination with my mixamp and ANY of my headphones? Seriously, nothing changes, not maximum volume, not static, not sound quality, nothing.


----------



## socksfelloff

I found that too. The E7 doesn't do a whole lot coupled with anything utilizing the line in. DAC works great via USB however
  
  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> So it's impossible to connect the E9 or HDP to the 5.8 mixamp?
> 
> And also, what's with the E7 doing literally NOTHING in combination with my mixamp and ANY of my headphones? Seriously, nothing changes, not maximum volume, not static, not sound quality, nothing.


----------



## Eric_C

Update on the Aiwa clip-on mic I bought last week: 
  It's great, if you can have the dang thing right next to your mouth. Pick-up is so insensitive (usually a good thing for gaming mics) that when clipped on to my t-shirt, my XBLA buddy couldn't hear a thing. I think I needed to be within an inch from the mic before it registered anything I said.
   
  Edit:
  Here's what it looks like.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Update on the Aiwa clip-on mic I bought last week:
> It's great, if you can have the dang thing right next to your mouth. Pick-up is so insensitive (usually a good thing for gaming mics) that when clipped on to my t-shirt, my XBLA buddy couldn't hear a thing. I think I needed to be within an inch from the mic before it registered anything I said.
> 
> I'll snap a picture later today, so you guys will know which model I'm talking about.


 

 Interesting. Laying back in my recliner playing my 360, when I was using my AD700+zalman I had it clipped to my shirt too and my friends could hear me even when I was whispering. On my PC, I can put it 5 feet in front of me and people can hear (non mechanical) keyboard clicks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alg, just run a cable from the Mixamp's headphone out to the line in on your amp. I've done this for years.


----------



## FliGuyRyan

MLE,
   
  So, you're saying the DT990 has more treble and more bass than the DT880? Why wouldn't I go with that then. I believe if the mids are a little more repressed, then it would sound more like the Pro Coppers I have, and that's a good thing. I can always use a little more bass (DT770 probably too much though) and I think I like "bright" treble... although, if the DT990 is completely open and verses the DT880's semi-open nature, why is there more bass? And when you say neutral, explain that more. Also, do you think the DT880 then is the jack-of-all-trades for music/gaming then? Why not the 990? And would it kill my sound if I go the 32ohm version? Are you using the E9 right now? I have the E5, love it, but I know it's not enough for 600ohm. What amp would be capable, inexpensive, awesome and good for both music/gaming and stackable with the Mixamp?
   
  Sorry for the barrage of questions... please answer them all if possible.
   
  Also, I'm so confused by the pathways of all these amps (plug this into this to get better of this). I'm good with pictures - are there any diagrams, lol?
   
  I really appreciate all your help guys,
   
  -RC


----------



## Eric_C

Hey Ryan,
   
  I don't have the 990 but I'll try and answer some of your queries based on what's commonly acknowledged about it on these forums, and from my perspective as a 880 owner (who uses it almost exclusively for non-competitive gaming).
  
  Quote: 





fliguyryan said:


> if the DT990 is completely open and verses the DT880's semi-open nature, why is there more bass? And when you say neutral, explain that more.


 

 Open vs semi-open vs closed don't equal to zero bass vs bass light vs bassy. There isn't a fixed rule for this. It's better to think of it as: the 990 happens to be open and bassy, and the 880 happens to be semi-open and not as bassy.
  (if you've heard the Sennheiser IE8, you'll also see that it is a bassy, "open" IEM due to its vented design.)
   
  Neutral = the headphones don't exaggerate any part of the sound (bass, mids, highs). If a song sounds bassy on a neutral headphone, the song was bassy when it was recorded/mixed. 
  In contrast, if a song sounds bassy on a bassy headphone, maybe it's because the song was bassy at the recording, or maybe it was bassy due to the headphone--nobody can say for sure.
   
  General rule of thumb for gaming (as far as I can tell from MLE's guide):
  Bassy phones are better for non-competitive.
  Neutral phones are better for competitive.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> do you think the DT880 then is the jack-of-all-trades for music/gaming then? Why not the 990?


 
   
  Neutral phones can sound "thin" or lifeless--though this depends on how used you are to exaggerated bass. 
  However, a neutral headphone just plays what's in the recording, which can be seen as not messing up the music. 
  In this regard, the 880 with its big soundstage, good positioning, good comfort and relatively neutral sound make it a good all-purpose headphone. The 990 could--*COULD*--get tiring to listen to after prolonged sessions, though really, the only way to know is by trying them out.
   
  Other reasons for 990 not being a do-it-all headphone may include it being bassy (see note above on bassy phones for gaming), and I would imagine that if you listen to music with lots of vocals, the relatively recessed mids on the 990 could hurt its performance there. Again, this still depends on what you prefer, and what specific music you listen to.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Also, I'm so confused by the pathways of all these amps (plug this into this to get better of this). I'm good with pictures - are there any diagrams, lol?


 
   
  Which setup did you want a picture for? I could dig through the thread; I remember a few good diagrams in response to some of my questions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He did like the DT770 Pro 80 which has a gaping void for mids compared to the DT990. The DT990 utterly decimates the DT770 Pro 80 in terms of performance. I like them for everything, but yes the treble can be quite fatiguing which is their biggest drawback. The DT990 makes a better gaming can for me too. While the mids are recessed, they are just as detailed as the DT880, so you won't be missing out details, just that they will sound distant in comparison due to the more forward bass and highs.

The E5 is a very weak amp, and shouldn't be put in the same planet in terms of how it compares to the E9.

Though I think the E5 worked fine for the DT880 32ohm I had, they deserve a little more than that.

I think you should definitely look into the DT990s over the DT880 as a fellow v shaped lover.


----------



## Headfonenut123

Another I forgot to ask was when using the pc 360 direct with the mixamp, do you have the mixamp set to full master volume and control the volume with the dial on the headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because then I can't dial in voice/game chat easily. I max out the PC360's volume and control with the Mixamp. If there are volume spikes, then I'll slightly adjust the PC360's dial...barely.


----------



## mizot

Mad Lust Envy hello!

 Excuse me for translation. I'm French.
 I need your help and your experience.

 I'm an audiophile and a player like you.
 I currently use a Sennheiser HD598.

 I had an Astro 40 and a PC360. I have not sold as soon as they were not quite comfortable (too tight).
 I have a rather large head with glasses

 I have an AMP (Yamaha RX-V550) for music and movies.
 I listen to electronic music (trance, techno, house) and the sweetest music in the evening (Ambient, dow tempo, classical, new age)

 I have a mixamp for PS3 and Xbox360.
 I play uncharted, Battlefield, Gears of War, Oblivion, Dead Space, BioShock, etc. ...
  I plug in my headphones (+ zalman mic) directly mixamp.

 I hesitate between Bayer *DT990* and *DT880*, knowing that I really like the sound of the HD598 (50 ohms).
 I seek the comfort of the port for long hours.
   
  The MMX300 is heaver (+110 grams) and exerts more pressure on the ears (+0.7N).
 I understood: DT880 for sweet music? DT990 ideal for the game?
 I must make a choice. I keep my HD598 which suits me well for music (all genres).

 My priority would be the game (I'm quite a big player).

   
  Should I take a *32* or *250* ohms (for the mixamp)?
  The Fiio E9, is it really necessary with the 250?
   
  Thank you in advance for your opinions and your advice...


----------



## Headfonenut123

mad lust envy said:


> No, because then I can't dial in voice/game chat easily. I max out the PC360's volume and control with the Mixamp. If there are volume spikes, then I'll slightly adjust the PC360's dial...barely.




Ok so for best sound quality I should max out the headphones volume dial and then set mixamp master volume at a comfortable level for me?

Only asking as im getting bits of popping from the mixamp and thats using both the dt 990 and the pc 360 so I'm thinking the mixamp must have developed a fault?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest, the HD598 performs better than both of the Beyers with the Mixamp. I also find them to be more comfortable. The Beyers may clamp less but they don't sit securely causing them to shift, making them have a different sort of discomfort for me.

If you really want one, I suggest the DT990 as the DT880 may be too smiliar to the HD598.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo MLE,
   
  I haven't been on the XBOX in a while. Been busy here with orders and such. I ahve some free time tonight before I head to bed, you up for some COD-BLOPS? Maybe some MW2?
   
  Also the other reason I haven't been on it because I bought _Portal 2_ and _Crysis 2_ on my PS3. Crysis 2 is fricking epic on my beyers for sure. I have began to appreciate Dolby Headphone a bit on certain games (especially Bad Company 2).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell yes! I been wanting to play some BLOPS.

YAY, another Dolby Headphone convert! Do me a favor and try DH with MW2, and tell me positioning isn't awesome. XD

I'll get on in a bit.

I still want those vids! 

I been playing BLOPS Sharpshooter lately. I love the random weapons every 45 seconds, as well as getting perks with kills. I wish Gun Game gave you perks per kill.


----------



## Arnotts

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hell yes! I been wanting to play some BLOPS.
> 
> YAY, another Dolby Headphone convert! Do me a favor and try DH with MW2, and tell me positioning isn't awesome. XD
> 
> ...


 

 I find positional audio a lot better without DH. In basically EVERY game lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Funny, I'm the exact opposite. I think stereo positioning is absolute garbage next to DH. All I get is a linear sound placement, whereas DH puts it around you in a 360 degree space. An absolute no brainer for me.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hell yes! I been wanting to play some BLOPS.
> 
> YAY, another Dolby Headphone convert! Do me a favor and try DH with MW2, and tell me positioning isn't awesome. XD
> 
> ...


 


  What I hate is how they put Marathon in the one wager match type where pinpoint aiming is essential and then forget about it in the one that absolutely needed it, gun game.
   
  Edit: I also have absolutely no idea how anyone can find positioning in games superior in stereo, just boggles my mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. Marathon should've been in all the wager matches. Hell, just get rid of Marathon and let you run infinitely normally. Walking is so damn slow!

About to fire up my 360 in a minute. Game on, beeshes.

I'm considering keeping my HE4 and waiting until i can get another Lyr again or some other powerful amp.... it'd be a damn shame to give these up for something inferior...


----------



## Arnotts

Just shows how we all perceive sounds differently haha. I CAN hear positional audio with DH, but I just find it so much easier with regular stereo.
   
  You guys should play on modded servers for wager matches. Nothing is more fun on BO (could be because it's a pretty terrible game, vanilla haha) than 12 player wager matches. Gun game with 12 people is so intense!
   
  EDIT: Oh didn't realise you guys play on 360.


----------



## Porumy

Been lurking around Head-Fi for a while and I recently purchased the HD598s.
  Just waiting for it to be shipped to me.
   
  However, I have a dilemma: wired mixamp or wireless 5.8 mixamp.
  I know there's less hiss on the wired one and it includes a ps3 chat cable. So I may or may not buy a cheap mic.
  I normally game on a computer monitor so I sit close to it so wired wouldn't be a problem.
  I do see the appeal in the 5.8 because it has less clutter and it can help in situations where you are far from the tv screen and console.
  Any recommendations?
   
   
   
   
   
   
  My wallet


----------



## tdockweiler

I've got a new favorite gaming headphone and it is my HD-598 killer. HD-598 isn't nearly as good now unless it's just soundstage size.
   
  It's this ugly Frankenstein DJ100 I made. Converted my Koss Pro DJ100 to open with the HD-497 shell and then recabled it with Mogami:
   

   
  This is crazy, but now I'm about 90% sure the soundstage is now larger than that of the HD-598 when open. It's confusing a bit considering it's so small.
  When closed, the DJ100 is quite a good closed headphone, but no chance I'd use it as my primary gaming headphone unless I HAD to use a closed headphone.
   
  The thing is small and ultra comfortable now. The pads are soft after I put them in the washing machine a few hundred times.
  The sound really clears up with a recable and being made open. Strangely the treble is now even better.
  Man I wish more people could hear this thing, but it's impossible since it's such a weird mod. Sounds like a majorly improved HD-598.
  K601 and HD-598 won't be on my head much anymore. I'd say going from closed to open is like a 50% improvement with this driver. Ok, maybe not, but it sure seems like it.
   
  I also got in the KRK KNS-6400. Now this could be one good option for a competitive closed headphone. It's soundstage is even better than the DJ100 when closed. One of the best soundstages I've heard in a closed headphone (other than the D2000).
  It's got a ton of detail too. Some stuff I can only heard on the KNS-6400, but not on my K601/K702 or my DJ100. It's level of detail is like the DT-880, but more forward mids.
   
  Strangely the KNS-6400 felt like it had a better soundstage than the 8400?! Maybe KRK made some changes. The 6400 has angled drivers!


----------



## eyeEX

I just got a set of AD700's and a Turtle Beach DSS and am loving it so far. I have a quick question for the OP or anyone else who might know, sorry if it has been asked. Besides bass boost on the DSS and seperate chat volume on the Astro Mixamp, is there any difference betweent he two? Basically, is there any reason to get a Mixamp over a Turtle Beach DSS? The DSS is just $50 on amazon and sounds good too me, but I've never heard a Mixamp so I can't compare the two.


----------



## Vires

Hey MLE, I sent you a PM but you may have missed it.
   
  I can't decide between the DT770/880/990 for pure gaming purposes. I know that the AD700 would be better for competitive gaming but I game purely for enjoyment and fun so I would like a headphone that made explosions, bullet shots, and etc sound amazing but without losing too much of the higher detail sound such as footsteps and reloading. Right now, I have a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCI Express Sound Card and like a 100-200 dollar budget. Do I need an amp in order to get the best out of the beyerdynamic headphones? Which ohm do you think I should get as well? Also, if there are any other better headphones you think I would like, that is fine as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eyeex said:


> I just got a set of AD700's and a Turtle Beach DSS and am loving it so far. I have a quick question for the OP or anyone else who might know, sorry if it has been asked. Besides bass boost on the DSS and seperate chat volume on the Astro Mixamp, is there any difference betweent he two? Basically, is there any reason to get a Mixamp over a Turtle Beach DSS? The DSS is just $50 on amazon and sounds good too me, but I've never heard a Mixamp so I can't compare the two.




The difference between the Mixamp and DSS is, less hiss on the Mixamp, more input options, and capability to use a mic and mix in the voice chat, allowing you to control the volume betwen the game and voice chat. The DSS is strictly a Dolby headphone amp with no mic solution and only one input.. Also heard it hisses quite a bit. I didn't test one out long enough to form a valid opinion of it.

Vires, I answered your pm. Beyers deserve a decent amp, and if not, get the 32ohm with SOME amping. Don't bother with the others unless you have a dedicated amp for them. Not worth wasting $200+ on such a good headphone without driving them properly. I know nothing about PC gaming, but I suggest a soundcard with Dolby headphone.... whatever is the equivalent of the Mixamp.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





porumy said:


> Been lurking around Head-Fi for a while and I recently purchased the HD598s.
> Just waiting for it to be shipped to me.
> 
> However, I have a dilemma: wired mixamp or wireless 5.8 mixamp.
> ...


 

 If you're sitting right next to the monitor, there's no reason to get anything wireless imo. The reason I got the 5.8 is because I'm sitting like 8 feet from the TV and HATE wires running across the floor.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm still perplexed by this. The DT990/600 sounds pretty bad with the mixamp, and that's not surprising. What makes no sense is the T1 sounds absolutely AMAZING through the mixamp... why??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> If you're sitting right next to the monitor, there's no reason to get anything wireless imo. The reason I got the 5.8 is because I'm sitting like 8 feet from the TV and HATE wires running across the floor.




^This. the Wired Mixamp is more robust and better sonically than the 5.8 (little to no hiss on the wired), so if you're close to whatever the Mixamp is plugged into, it's best to get the wired. the 5.8 is a great product, but I wouldn't get one over the wired if you're gonna be thethered or close to your gaming rig.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> I'm still perplexed by this. The DT990/600 sounds pretty bad with the mixamp, and that's not surprising. What makes no sense is the T1 sounds absolutely AMAZING through the mixamp... why??




The T1 uses a more sensitive driver, so the Mixamp has an easier time driving it than the 600ohm Mid fi beyers. Not meaning it sounds at it's best off just the Mixamp, but that it just doesn't have to strain as hard. The Mixamp really needs an amp to push any of the Premium Beyers, IMHO. Even the 32ohm sounded a bit weak without extra amping for my taste.


----------



## mizot

Mad Lust Envy thank you!

 Could you tell me if the mixamp fit in 250?
 Should I take the 32 ohms?
 This is it less efficient in the medium?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.xjacker.com/ampkit.php

xjacker messaged me about this product and was nice enough to tell me they'd send me one for review, but I honestly don't feel I can review it fairly as it's a stereo amp, and not a Dolby headphone one. In any case, it's $20, and seems to do what some people would need, which is give them an amp to plug in their headphones+mic with like the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer, but with more power, and cheaper cost. 

Somebody who hates Dolby headphone and just wants a gaming amp + mic solution should get one and give us a review. I honestly can't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mizot said:


> Mad Lust Envy thank you!
> 
> Could you tell me if the mixamp fit in 250?
> Should I take the 32 ohms?
> This is it less efficient in the medium?




I believe if you're NOT gonna use a mic with the Beyers, the Mixamp can power the 32 and 250ohm alone well enough (voice/game knob must be turned all the way towards the game side, meaning absolutely no power being fed to voice chat). The 600ohm can clip/distort without extra amping. Though the Mixamp will drive it to piercing volumes. If you plan on using a mic... then yes, you WILL need an external amp to help the Mixamp, even with the 32ohm, IMHO. The difference between the 32ohm and 600ohm on the volume knob wasn't that much, tbh, but volume doesn't = driving force.


----------



## Alghazanth

MLE just want to confirm- So it is NOT possible to use the HDP or E9 in combination with the mixamp 5.8?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I already said yes... o_O

 Mixamp -> Mixamp's headphone out -> E9/HDP/any other amp's line in -> headphone. 

If you're using a mic, plug that into the Mixamp, not the HDP/E9.

This is how I game with my HE4, and my previous harder to drive cans.

Oh yes, you'll wanna max out the Mixamp volume and control volume with the E9/HDP/other amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This was on Page 18. XD But yes... this is somewhat of the setup. The E9 doesn't need a 3.5mm to RCA, but a 3.5mm male/male, as the Line In is a 3.5mm instead of an RCA input.


----------



## mizot

Mad Lust Envy If I take the DT 600 + the Fiio E9, I could safely use the Voice chat?
   
  The best combination for DT600?
   
  Thank you for the schematics


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never heard the DT600. I assume you meant the 600ohm beyers like the DT880/600 and DT990/600.

I meant that if you add the E9 AFTER the Mixamp, that it would help the Beyers. The mic still needs to be directly plugged into the Mixamp, but yes, the E9 adds plenty for the 600ohm Beyers.


----------



## mizot

Sorry, I spoke well of DT900 to 600 ohms.

 I would not have a bad surprise?

 Someone on this forum he would use this set (+ E9 + mixamp DT900/600)?
 Could we talk about the game experience?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a fantastic experience. Positioning is top notch, bass is impactful and immersive, treble is... well the DT990 is a special case in terms of it's treble, lol. You will either think the treble is so sharpit cuts your ears, or will tolerate them. The mids are incredibly detailed, but distant which is not gonna be a surprise due to the bass and treble being the stars of the show, but they aren't gone. The E9 is also a bit rich in the mids, so the DT990's benefits here.


----------



## mizot

Thank you, that's what I wanted to hear

 I'll take all Fiio E7/E9 (170 €) because I have a Cowon J3.

 So I have to buy a small RCA cable 3.5mm male / male.

 A cable that must be what capacity? You have an internet link, maybe?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I honestly just use one of the supplied cables that came with one of my Mixamps.

BTW, the E7 is useless in this equation. Get the E7 only if you need a DAC for your computer. It will do absolutely nothing when using the E9 attached to the Mixamp.


----------



## eyeEX

Interesting. I havn't noticed any hiss with the DSS+AD700. Do you know if the DSS and Mixamp put out the same amount of power? I know the AD700's don't need much to drive, but am wondering in case I get different headphones later one down the line.


----------



## mizot

Ok, I only take the E9.

 Thank you to you and google translation

 I'll make you a little account
   
  Bye!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

EyeEX, I don't think the power between them is large enough to justify getting one over the other based off power alone. For that, I'd just attach an amp to the DSS capable of providing lots more power, as opposed to just a little more.

Mizot, thanks for bearing with me. I didn't think google translation would help break that language barrier as well as it did. XD

English is also not my first language.


----------



## mizot

Lad Lust Envy,
   
  Last question:
  Once installed, I put the volume up to E9. And play with the volume of mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, max out the Mixamp, and adjust volume with the E9.


----------



## mizot

It's me again!

 For games outside shooter, there is a risk of having the voices too low with the HD 990/600?
  
  I would not be forced to increase the volume to hear the medium.
   
  I am afraid of regretting the 880 ...

 I take the 600 ohms as it would appear they are a bit smoother than the 250. (the medium a little closer to normal)

 I need to be really convinced before buying ...please


----------



## Eric_C

(MLE, correct me if I'm wrong)
  Mizot: There should be no risk of voices too low. This is because of MixAmp. MixAmp can control voices VS game sounds, so you can talk to teammates easily with all headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're correct. 

That's one of the beauties of the Mixamp, the ability to adjust the volume of the game and voice.


----------



## 2enty3

Do you think this setup will work on anything with an optical out? More specifically the PS3? I'm curious as to how the mic would work.
   
  and though this is horribly of topic, what is your first language?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The new wired Mixamps allow PS3/PC mic use through the USB (my old one didn't).

The Mixamp 5.8 needs a PS3 chat cable which can be bought seperately on the Astrogaming site. I never chat on PS3, so I didn't buy the cable.

I'm not exactly sure how PC chat capabilities work. I assume the PS3 chat cable is also PC compatible.

Lol, my first language is Spanish. I'm from Puerto Rico, but that's not an excuse. I've spoken english for like 20 years now.


----------



## mizot

Mad Lust Envy & Eric_C
   
  I know the qualities of mixamp to manage voice.

 I was referring to the production medium of HD 900/600 Ohm 900/250 compared to HD.

 Was it more balanced on the 600?


----------



## Eric_C

Oh...MLE, this is definitely more your department.
   
  Mizot: sorry I can't help answer that question. By the way, I think when you say "medium", you mean "midrange"/"mid-range" or "mids"? Comment voulez-vous dire, en Francais?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand.

Are you asking how the mids are on the DT990 compared to the Sennheiser HD600? If so, I haven't heard the HD600, but I hear its very well balanced. The DT990 is decidely Vshaped, where the mids are their weakest aspect. If you are asking about why I went with the 600ohm version over the 250ohm, its because I heard the 600ohm didn't have as shrill treble as the other ohm versions though I can't say for sure.

I'm sorry if I can't answer your question properly.


----------



## mizot

mediums: between bass and treble
   
  thank you, you answered my question.

 The dt990 600 ohm better than the 32 and 250


----------



## Narwayo

There isn't anyone here in head-fi that could tell something more about the Ultrasone pro 2900 please?? 
   
  Mad Lust Envy
   
   trebles of the dt990( the 600 Ohm version) are really so fatiguing? I have the dt880 600 ohm model and I like this for anything, with music and videogames. But like a lot of people I don't enjoy the bass as I would like. I miss too much the "thunderous body" of battle atmosphere both in videogames and in movies. Sometimes I use a pair of M50, that has that thunderous body I like, but I cannot stand his clamping force (I use glasses when I play or watch movies) and the fake leather pads annoys me after a while with something like a sauna effect to my ears. The dt880 are the best comfort headphones I have ever put on my head. So my first thought goes to the dt990 600 Ohm, but as a lot of people criticizes his trebles I am waiting before to buy them. For sure using the dt880 they are bright, but they are at the limit for me. Sometimes I play for 3 hours non-stop too, and I am just a bit fatigued, but I can stand it. More not. I am looking for Denon 7000 and Ultrasone pro 900 or 2900. Obviously I am not buying those headphones just to play, I am an all around user.
   
  In addition to the sub bass I need a good amount of mid bass too to give a real body to the game experience. I took information about the Sennheiser hd650, but even if they seem mid and bass oriented they don't seem to have that thunderous effect that I am searching for. 
   
  Another great problem is that with the summer it's quite impossible to stand anything that have a lot of clamping force and as my M50. I know that the Denons have leather pads, but as they don't have almost any clamping force ( as its owners report ) I think that they wouldn't give me issues and I would be able to use them with glasses too. 
   
  Another option would be the Ultrasones pro 2900 and 900. They have velours pads, but I don't know anything about their clamping force and I didn't find any infos about their differences, soundstage, ..... It seems that none owns the 2900 model.


----------



## Jae304

Thought this would be good to add to this thread:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/14/astro-mixamp-5-8-review/


----------



## obazavil

Well, I use my DT990 for music the whole day and I love them  so I must be treble-deaf 
   
  and... mixamp+e9+dt990 rocks 
   
  P.D. MLE, I'm Tifa-fanboy, where I can download your avatar image in a bigger size?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Well, I use my DT990 for music the whole day and I love them  so I must be treble-deaf
> 
> and... mixamp+e9+dt990 rocks
> 
> P.D. MLE, I'm Tifa-fanboy, where I can download your avatar image in a bigger size?


 

 The whole day? You must be the most treble insensitive person on earth. Some people here thought I was crazy for being able to wear the D2000 all day...


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





narwayo said:


> There isn't anyone here in head-fi that could tell something more about the Ultrasone pro 2900 please??
> 
> Mad Lust Envy
> 
> ...


 

 If you think the DT880 are as bright as you can stand, then the DT990 is not a good choice. It has the huge bass you seek, but it is the brightest can I've heard along with Grados.
   
  D7000 also has the bass you seek, and more. It is similar to the DT990, but pretty much better all around (highs not shrill, not as recessed midrange) aside from soundstage. Sounds amazing straight to the mixamp too, unlike the DT990, as long as you aren't using a mic with it. It's definitely a wonderful option for you if you're willing to pay, my second favorite gaming/music can and it holds a special place in my heart. There is something even better but I'm talking over $1000.
   
  Do not get the HD650 for gaming. For music, it's one of those cans you yourself have to audition. I thought I would love it, but I hated the dark signature.
   
  Denons have very little to no clamping force, and very little isolation. They do squeeze on glasses more than my other cans but it's not too bad.
   
  Sorry I don't know anything about those Ultrasones, just the Ed 8.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Google Zero Chan. That website has a LOT of anime/game art. Just search Tifa there, you'll be pleased. Yeah, Tifa is my number one fave fictional game character, along with Yuffie. 

To those asking about the DT990, yes if you want more bass than the DT880, the DT990 is it. I went from the DT880 to DT990 and never looked back. They sound quite similar, with the 990 adding the bass I wanted. The mids are similar, though the bass and treble on the 990s will make them sound distant, that's all.

I suggest people try the 990s, just prepare for its polarizin treble which MIGHT be too much for you. In my case, I loved the treble...most of the time. There are certain songs where it made my ears bleed... lol. For gaming, the treble shouldn't be an issue whatsoever.

I used to look into the Pro 2900 but no one talks about it, and its quite expensive. For that price, a little more gets you the D7000, and less gives you the HE4 which I have no doubt is a better headphone.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Google Zero Chan. That website has a LOT of anime/game art. Just search Tifa there, you'll be pleased. Yeah, Tifa is my number one fave fictional game character, along with Yuffie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  It's really not just the bass that causes the mids to take a backseat, they are recessed because the driver emphasis is on treble and bass, that is their listed signature by default. They are designing the DT990 to be recessed and the DT880 being balanced.The DT990's mids are recessed on tracks with little to no bass too.
   
  Also yes, I forgot to mention the treble is perfectly fine for gaming w/ DH, just not music. It'll place a lot more emphasis on "s" and "t" sounds than it should.
   
  But if you can't afford the D7000 and are not treble/recession sensitive, then by all means give it a try. And maybe the FA-011 too, if that one review is to be believed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've had both th 880 and 990. The mids are very slightly more detailed on the 990, but more distant. Recession is often exaggerated. When something is emphasized, the trade off is something becomes recessed. They didn't make the mids recessed on purpose. It was a side effect of bass and treble emphasis. Just like EQ. You can have a mid centric headphone EQ-ed for more bass and treble, and due to your ears becoming more focused on bass and treble, mids sound weaker as a tradeoff.

In any case, If you want bass and treble, mids are gonna take a backseat. That's just how it is.

I wanna try the FA-011, but comfort is lacking. No thanks.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've had both th 880 and 990. The mids are very slightly more detailed on the 990, but more distant. Recession is often exaggerated. When something is emphasized, the trade off is something becomes recessed. They didn't make the mids recessed on purpose. It was a side effect of bass and treble emphasis. Just like EQ. You can have a mid centric headphone EQ-ed for more bass and treble, and due to your ears becoming more focused on bass and treble, mids sound weaker as a tradeoff.
> 
> In any case, If you want bass and treble, mids are gonna take a backseat. That's just how it is.
> 
> I wanna try the FA-011, but comfort is lacking. No thanks.


 

 Have you had them on? I thought the LCD-2 was going to be awfully uncomfortable but it ended up being very comfy. I'm curious about the FA-011 because it sounds too good to be true at the price, and I've heard on another site that the review poster is a "Fanatical Fischer Fanboy".. but if it's really as good as he says it could be a breakthrough.
   
  If you want EXCESSIVE bass and treble, that is.
   
  But yes the whole "focusing on bass" thing with the Denons and DT990s is true and is actually why I've been moving away from them for music, though I of course still love the D7K.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why you selling the LCD2?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why you selling the LCD2?


 

 Put em on sale quite some time ago. I don't enjoy the dark laid-back sound sig of the HD650 and LCD-2. Things like the T1, HD800, D7K are much more my style. IIRC you posted somewhere that you didn't like it either?


----------



## ziocomposite

FA-011  soundstage as good as the ATH AD700 but with great mids and punching bass.  HPA2 is still better direction wise but not with SQ.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





ziocomposite said:


> *FA-011  soundstage as good as the ATH AD700 but with great mids and punching bass*.  HPA2 is still better direction wise but not with SQ.


 


  Are you serious? Why do so few use them then?
   
  And HPA2 as in TB? Why?


----------



## ziocomposite

So few use them because of the shortage issue and difficulty of acquiring them.  I use the Sound Blaster Extigy with my xbox360 (a true 5.1 decoder) so that's the reason why the HPA2 is better position-wise.  I have a dss to use with the ad700 &/or FA-011 plus the extigy has cmss which is just as good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alg, OIC. I haven't heard them yet, but I had a feeling that their sound sig wouldn't be to my taste. You were my guinea pig then, lol. That's exactly why I never bothered with the HD650. I have heard other laid back cans, and hated them. Looks like I ain't missing anything then.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





ziocomposite said:


> So few use them because of the shortage issue and difficulty of acquiring them.  I use the Sound Blaster Extigy with my xbox360 (a true 5.1 decoder) so that's the reason why the HPA2 is better position-wise.  I have a dss to use with the ad700 &/or FA-011 plus the extigy has cmss which is just as good.


 


  Are you 100% serious about it having more soundstage than the AD700? I have several flagship cans here that do not match it in soundstage.


----------



## Alghazanth

MLE, have you played KH? Just listened to Simple and Clean with my T1, unbelievable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Love KH. I last finished Birth By Sleep. 

As for soundstage, I find nothing has bested the AD700, even the K701 (though it does have a larger left/right width in stereo mode).


----------



## ziocomposite

The soundstage quality is what is better.  The AD700 has a vast soundstage somewhat giving it a negative when distance is in question.  I like that it doesn't have a lot of bass so is not as fatiguing.  The FA-011 has the soundstage but distance-wise is easier to hear though the bass gives it a movie atmosphere sometimes lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like the DT990. Also the DT770 Pro 80. Soundstage isn't AD700 size, but it was the easiest in terms of judging distance. Too bad it was so bloated and muddy for online gaming.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> The whole day? You must be the most treble insensitive person on earth. Some people here thought I was crazy for being able to wear the D2000 all day...


 

 Ok.. not whole day.. only 7 hours tops 
   
  I don't find that bad the treble.. but maybe is because I'm not putting a lot of attention to the music... or just i'm insensitive (my wife says that a lot) hehe


----------



## killeraxemannic

Just got a pair of the AD700's and want to add a mic to them.

   

  The legendary Labtec mic that everyone has used in the past is no longer available. And way overpriced on ebay. 

   

  What is a good mic to use for adding to it nowdays?

   

  I don't want the zalman clip on mic. I want a boom mic to add on.


----------



## Alghazanth

Nevermind


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





killeraxemannic said:


> Just got a pair of the AD700's and want to add a mic to them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I would buy one of the TB mics, never had a problem with the X41 or PX5 mic.


----------



## killeraxemannic

I want a mic I can attach to the headphones with double sided tape, not one I will have to mod the headphones to use.


----------



## Vires

Hey MLE,
   
  My DT990's 32 ohm came in today but for some reason I could not hear a big difference between my ad700's and the dt990's. Currently, the dt990's are unamped because I don't have enough money to purchase an amp yet-- would that make a big difference? I already turned the volume all the way up and the sound hurts my ears so I feel like the amp may just make things worse. Also, my dt990's are refurbished but they seem pretty solid still, perhaps something happened within the headphone that cause it to have less bass. Or maybe my ears are just bad, who knows? =P


----------



## Jae304

Responded in the thread you started on this -- it can be done with those boom mics with some velcro.  I used the boom mic  from the Amazon link posted in your thread (along with a couple of others) with good results on my D2Ks. 
  Quote: 





killeraxemannic said:


> I want a mic I can attach to the headphones with double sided tape, not one I will have to mod the headphones to use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vires said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> My DT990's 32 ohm came in today but for some reason I could not hear a big difference between my ad700's and the dt990's. Currently, the dt990's are unamped because I don't have enough money to purchase an amp yet-- would that make a big difference? I already turned the volume all the way up and the sound hurts my ears so I feel like the amp may just make things worse. Also, my dt990's are refurbished but they seem pretty solid still, perhaps something happened within the headphone that cause it to have less bass. Or maybe my ears are just bad, who knows? =P




The DT990 definitely shouldnt sound anything like the AD700. For one, you bought a refurb, meaning something was initially wrong with it. It should have been fixed, but I never trust refurbs. Two, you're running them unamped. I have mentioned several times that even the 32ohm Premium Beyers NEED an amp. I blame Beyer for making them not work properly unamped. They lose a LOT of their potential unamped. 

I'd return it and try again.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





vires said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> My DT990's 32 ohm came in today but for some reason I could not hear a big difference between my ad700's and the dt990's. Currently, the dt990's are unamped because I don't have enough money to purchase an amp yet-- would that make a big difference? I already turned the volume all the way up and the sound hurts my ears so I feel like the amp may just make things worse. Also, my dt990's are refurbished but they seem pretty solid still, perhaps something happened within the headphone that cause it to have less bass. Or maybe my ears are just bad, who knows? =P


 


  DT990s should sound absolutely nothing like the AD700, amped or not. Definitely return them.


----------



## Eric_C

Also, maxing the volume on your player/computer right now is NOT going to simulate amping.


----------



## Alghazanth

Has anyone been fortunate enough to try the Smyth Realiser?


----------



## Alghazanth

MLE,
   
  I connected the 5.8 mixamp RX to the E9 via 3.5mm male to male cable, the E9's line in to the headphone jack of the mixamp RX. Maxed volume on mixamp, plugged headphones into 6.3mm front jack of E9, and adjusted volume with E9 on high gain. I tried the T1, HE500, DT990, and HD800.
   
  All of them sound much, much worse with the E9 hooked up than just plugged straight into the mixamp. I tested all four of them with and without the E9 real quick on Black Ops. With the E9 the environmental noise way way louder, positioning was all screwed up, things seemed to have echo, and the sound was just much more of a mess. This is with DH on btw.
   
  What happened here?
   
  Edit: Went ahead and also tested two other games with the T1, this time trying low gain and and stereo too. It's all the same.
   
  Oblivion: Background music w/ E9 way louder, when I fire fireballs it's impossible to pinpoint their direction, music seems to echo. w/o E9 it's flawless.
   
  Brutal Legend: Tested a few of the music tracks. Same results here too, whether on stereo or DH there is echo and louder background noise and music sounds messy w/E9. Again, w/o E9 perfect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 in the mix adds absolutely zero discernable distortion for me and a few others. It literally sounds like the Mixamp alone, but adds a LOT more power to hard to drive headphones. Keep in mind, the 5.8 hisses at loud volumes, and you're essentially amping ALL of the hiss. You COULD lessen the volume of the Mixamp to somewhere wehere the hiss is lessened, but you'll essentially be amping very little... losing a lot of the dynamics. That is less ideal that maxing the volume.

What I do notice on my HE4 is that the Mixamp+E9 has like literally no hiss. I've only experienced that with the HE4. Everything else has hiss.


I have zero issues.

OH YES, try it without the Y cable/mic and see if it still sounds bad. I had ONE occasion where doing this really effed up the sound. I took out the Y cable and the problem went away.

I'm not the only one to do this setup, but you're certaimnly the first that has complained about it. Dunno what to say. All I know is that it should literally add or take away nothing from the Mixamp's sound. Positioning, directionality, everything sounds the same. Even did it with my easy to drive cans. NO issues. I'm quite anal about my game audio, so saying that there's no issue, I mean it. The E9 literally is just a needed volume boost/amping for hard to drive headphones.

Again, this is for CONSOLE GAMING. I can't guarantee anything on PC. You might wanna try another cable... if not, you're SOL. I enjoy my HE4 for gaming with this method, and have zero complaints. They are stellar gaming cans.


----------



## ziocomposite

Sometimes I prefer to use my headphones w/o listening to the game and get in the zone.  Just went 70-5 with 3 caps and 2 defends in Black ops just listening to music with my FA-011 with Zune/Leckerton UHA-4 combo =) lol


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E9 in the mix adds absolutely zero discernable distortion for me and a few others. It literally sounds like the Mixamp alone, but adds a LOT more power to hard to drive headphones. Keep in mind, the 5.8 hisses at loud volumes, and you're essentially amping ALL of the hiss. You COULD lessen the volume of the Mixamp to somewhere wehere the hiss is lessened, but you'll essentially be amping very little... losing a lot of the dynamics. That is less ideal that maxing the volume.
> 
> What I do notice on my HE4 is that the Mixamp+E9 has like literally no hiss. I've only experienced that with the HE4. Everything else has hiss.
> 
> ...


 


  I think I'll order up a wired mixamp and see what happens. I read that you like the HE4 for soundwhoring, how about SP?
   
  I did not use the Y splitter. Only additional cable used was the tiny 3.5 mm male to male that came w/ the E7.


  Quote: 





ziocomposite said:


> Sometimes I prefer to use my headphones w/o listening to the game and get in the zone.  Just went 70-5 with 3 caps and 2 defends in Black ops just listening to music with my FA-011 with Zune/Leckerton UHA-4 combo =) lol


 
  I do this too occasionally, but only in big games where soundwhoring is mostly useless.


----------



## ziocomposite

I do it when I think I'm starting to get too serious playing games.  Sound whoring is fun and all but my reflex and awareness is much more fun than just relying on sound =P
   
  EDIT
   
  AKA relying too much on sound like those people who rely too much on radar.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





ziocomposite said:


> I do it when I think I'm starting to get too serious playing games.  Sound whoring is fun and all but my reflex and awareness is much more fun than just relying on sound =P
> 
> EDIT
> 
> AKA relying too much on sound like those people who rely too much on radar.


 
  I played so much hardcore search in MW2 that in Blops I pretty much ignore the radar in Core and use my eyes and ears alone. Works enough to land me 1st place in 95% of games 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  MLE, do you think the HE4 is your favorite SP can, or does that honor still go to the D7000?


----------



## ziocomposite

The reason I probably do less sound whoring in Bops is because of the horrible sound in game.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  If this was anything like MW2 then I'd be in the same boat as you lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. BLOPS isn't a game that relies on soundwhoring, though it does help.

Alg, the HE4 is as good a SP can as any I've heard outside of the D7000. It literally sounds like a DT880/990 hybrid, but better than both.

I been playing a lot of Barebones Classic. No attachments, 3, 5, 7 kill streaks only, and you keep your perks. Went 37-5 last night, among other blowouts. I'm beginning to think I'm too good for this game, lol.


----------



## Alghazanth

Actually, soundwhoring in Blops is the same as in MW2 now with the sound patch. I agree the sound design/engine is abysmal, but I went 30-0 on Hotel FFA w/ the PX5 on flat preset just running around the north building w/ Ninja and pinpointing everyone. The only real thing that kills me nowadays (at least in small games) are campers or others with Ninja.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I disagree. Black Ops is running with the sounds similar to World at War, not MW2. There was NEVER an issue with pinpointing sounds in CoD4 and MW2, and I'm not even referring to footsteps. WaW and BLOPS just doesnt have the same accuracy and imaging. Most of the forums I have visited have come to the same conclusion. BLOPS sounds nothing like MW2. MW2's audio wasn't great either, but positional sounds in it trump BLOPS by a wide margin.

Again, I dunno what differences there are, but most if not all of us game on consoles, not PC, which is what you're doing. I absolutely can't stress enoughthat the diff between them might be quite significant.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I disagree. Black Ops is running with the sounds similar to World at War, not MW2. There was NEVER an issue with pinpointing sounds in CoD4 and MW2, and I'm not even referring to footsteps. WaW and BLOPS just doesnt have the same accuracy and imaging. Most of the forums I have visited have come to the same conclusion. BLOPS sounds nothing like MW2. MW2's audio wasn't great either, but positional sounds in it trump BLOPS by a wide margin.
> 
> Again, I dunno what differences there are, but most if not all of us game on consoles, not PC, which is what you're doing. I absolutely can't stress enoughthat the diff between them might be quite significant.


 


  Huh? I haven't done PC gaming in like 6 months, this is all console gaming I'm talking about.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E9 in the mix adds absolutely zero discernable distortion for me and a few others. It literally sounds like the Mixamp alone, but adds a LOT more power to hard to drive headphones. Keep in mind, the 5.8 hisses at loud volumes, and you're essentially amping ALL of the hiss. You COULD lessen the volume of the Mixamp to somewhere wehere the hiss is lessened, but you'll essentially be amping very little... losing a lot of the dynamics. That is less ideal that maxing the volume.
> 
> What I do notice on my HE4 is that the Mixamp+E9 has like literally no hiss. I've only experienced that with the HE4. Everything else has hiss.
> 
> ...


 


  Wait MLE, you're connecting the  E9 to the 5.8 mixamp and getting good results? I thought you had the wired version and that's why it was working out for you. It sounds awful for me, I dont know why...


----------



## NewMACAdress

So does anyone has anyone here ever met MLE or could he just be part of a corporation like Sennheiser posting a forum about gaming headphones, settling on making remarks about some headphones to get everyone's trust and then boom!!!!!!!!Debut of Sennheiser's new gaming headset and boom again,     "Don't think, just buy now" 
  Sorry, not trolling just curious.


----------



## ziocomposite

He could be or not.  I see a guy putting his experience out to the public.  Now it's up to us to decipher the information given.  I hate hearing people say someone made me buy this amp/headphone/etc.  Nobody put a gun to your head to buy it, you made a decision to follow opinion(s).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait what? Lol. I'm just a 28 year old Security Officer with too much free time, now that I'm single again. I'm just passionate about headphone gaming, striving to find something that works well for all purposes.

First time I been linked to some conspiracy, lol. Yes, I am employed by 30 different headphone manufactures, and get paid to push their products. :rolleyes:

Alg, the 5.8 hisses with or without an amp attached. As long as you're aware of that, you shouldn't have anything else sounding out of place. I dunno what issue you're having, but having an amp attached to my 5.8 serves as nothing but a necessary power boost for hard to drive cans, that's it. I already said as such. I DID have the wired Mixamp which I sold in favor of the 5.8.

Sorry its not working out for you, but you can hop over to AVSForum's Xbox section and see that it works for them as it did for me.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





newmacadress said:


> So does anyone has anyone here ever met MLE or could he just be part of a corporation like Sennheiser posting a forum about gaming headphones, settling on making remarks about some headphones to get everyone's trust and then boom!!!!!!!!Debut of Sennheiser's new gaming headset and boom again,     "Don't think, just buy now"
> Sorry, not trolling just curious.


 


  Wait how do I know you're not from one of Sennheiser's competitors?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> First time I been linked to some conspiracy, lol. Yes, I am employed by 30 different headphone manufactures, and get paid to push their products.


 

 Never forget.  No good deed goes unpunished.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Shoot, I'd be HAPPY to get paid to push products, but I sure as hell wouldn't push a crappy product. If Sennheiser has employed me, wouldn't they be mad that I push Beyer, Denon, Audio-Technica, Hifiman, etc? 

If Astro paid me, I'm sure they be mad at bashing the A40's, and recommending the Tritton AX720...

I could do this all day. XD


----------



## maverickronin

I haven't been accused of being a shill yet but its only a matter of time...


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wait what? Lol. I'm just a 28 year old Security Officer with too much free time, now that I'm single again. I'm just passionate about headphone gaming, striving to find something that works well for all purposes.
> 
> First time I been linked to some conspiracy, lol. Yes, I am employed by 30 different headphone manufactures, and get paid to push their products.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think it's hiss, rather it totally screws with the sound. Background noise is made super loud, positioning is all over the place, and more. The hiss did not change IIRC.
  
  Also the Beats Pro are the best gaming headphones ever, please go buy them so I can feed my family.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ahahaha. I dunno what to tell you, man. Perhaps you're more sensitive to the subtle changes that the amp brings to the Mixamp's sound. However, I dunno how the positioning and all that could be affected. It certainly isn't for me. I guess you're outta luck. I wouldn't waste cash on the wired Mixamp in hopes of this working.

Again, I'm gaming on consoles. It may affect PC gaming in a different way. I never game on PC, so I can't say.


----------



## olor1n

Not sure how the 5.8 MixAmp differs from the original model, but I have no issues in double amping the MixAmp signal through my Audio-GD Fun. I just set the master volume (big dial) on the MixAmp to max and leave the Game/Voice balance at the default 12 o'clock position, with overall volume ultimately adjusted on the Fun. Nice clean signal without distortion.
   
  Also, Sennheiser would be the last company I'd accuse MLE of shilling for. That would be reserved for FiiO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell's yeah. 

But seriously, didn't know being happy with a company's products = working for them. Fiio owes me big time!


----------



## Alghazanth

Hmm, I'll try it later with it set in the middle rather than on game all the way. Also, the change was about as subtle as a nuke.
   
  Also, MLE I'm curious about your opinion of the HE-4 for SP gaming vs the D7000. I'm in a position right now where I prefer the HE500 to every can I have for music (cept LCD2 but its special) but the T1 is only like 3-5% worse for music in comparison, and is better for gaming, at least straight into the mixamp. It's also very heavy, which is a sacrifice I can make for something as nuanced as music, but not for long gaming sessions (and pretty much any time I sit down for some gaming, it doesn't end fast). As such if I don't keep the T1 around I'd have to buy a D7K or something for SP, and that won't happen (cup just fell off of my ebay one, so I'm done buying non-authorized and that means $1000... D7K isn't worth near that I've discovered, esp just for gaming). I also just don't see how orthos can work like a dynamic for gaming, as the design is just too different.  tested all the cans in my profile yesterday with 3 games and ended up preferring the T1/HD800/D7K to everything, especially the orthos.
   
  Would you mind doing a quick review of the HE-4 in your usual format?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I already mentioned it before. The HE4 for gaming and everything else in general is like a cross between the DT880 and DT990. From it's infectious but not overwhelming bass (and its most similar to the DT990 in this from what I have experienced, just a little less presence, but more than the 880), as well as treble quantity like the DT880. Quality of treble, mids, and bass exceed both those cans (bass is pretty close in quality), but they sound similar quantity wise.

They won't beat the D7000 in terms of sub bass, but they certainly punch harder, and have an airier sound. They don't have a warm signature (unlike the D7000), but are bright just like the Beyers (again). Soundstage reminds me of the DT880 the most, though they have better depth. Positioning is great, but not amazing, just like the DT880 but better at picking up rear audio cues in Dolby Headphone.

I'm pretty sure they will sound most similar to the T1, but inferior... of course. But for $450, they are just absolutely amazing.

Their biggest problem is how ridiculously hard they are to drive. Don't even THINK of plugging them into just the Mixamp, because they'll reward you with absolute disinterest in letting you hear anything remotely pleasureable. The E9 certainly brings the volume up to piercing levels, but they will be missing quite a bit of the dynamics and fullbodiedness that the Lyr gave them. I utterly regret selling my Lyr. If I hadn't sold it, I would NOT give these up. The E9 does give them more sub bass presence over the Lyr, due to it not controlling it as well, but still a quality bass, not sloppy.

Believe me, they sound great off the E9, but next to the Lyr, I would say I'm getting 65% of their performance. The E9 definitely wasn't meant to drive these orthos.

I can't give them a review in my usual format, because I don't have an amp capable of bringing the HE4 to proper levels. When I had my Lyr, I didn't analyze the HE4 for gaming enough to give proper scores. I can now just with the E9, and they certainly do perform well (just as well as the DT880 at LEAST, but definitely better even underdriven...), so take that as you will.

The HE4 does distort at times through the E9 when I listen to SOME bass heavy tracks. Its very few, but its usually the same dubstep tracks that I can recreate the issue. Some other bass heavy dubstep tracks don't distort at all, so its certainly odd.


----------



## Alghazanth

Is the cable you use to connect the E9 line out to the 5.8's headphone port just a standard 3.5mm to 3.5mm? Nothing else?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's it. I'm pretty sure its the long 3.5mm male/male that came with my WIRED 1st gen Mixamp. The plugs have a gray stripe on it. I don't think the 5.8 comes with one like this. In any case, it shouldn't matter as long as the cable isn't utter crap. I have a feeling ios just not gonna work out for you, possibly because PC gaming and its sound options aren't like the basic Dolby Digital signal from console gaming.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's it. I'm pretty sure its the long 3.5mm male/male that came with my WIRED 1st gen Mixamp. The plugs have a gray stripe on it. I don't think the 5.8 comes with one like this. In any case, it shouldn't matter as long as the cable isn't utter crap. I have a feeling ios just not gonna work out for you, possibly because PC gaming and its sound options aren't like the basic Dolby Digital signal from console gaming.


 
  Lol, I've said like 5 times in this thread I'm only console gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Btw, if you got to pick one can for competitive gaming and one can for SP gaming, any price, and you didn't need a mic, would it be K701 and D7000? Something else?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought you were a PC gamer. Oh lulz.

K701 for MP, D7000 for SP going off sound alone, no mic, or amping restrictions.

Realistically in my situation, I'd choose the HD598 over the K701 so as to not have to attach an amp after the Mixamp. K701 is still better, but HD598 comes close for the same needs.

If it was one headset does all, its the PC360, bass expander on for SP, off for MP.

I think you've asked me this multiple times, lol.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I thought you were a PC gamer. Oh lulz.
> 
> K701 for MP, D7000 for SP going off sound alone, no mic, or amping restrictions.
> 
> ...


 


  I'm an Omni-gamer, check the profile 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 But I haven't done any serious PC gaming in half a year.
   
  Didn't you say the K701 is perfect through just the mixamp unless a mic is needed? And isn't the AD700 closer to the K701 than the HD598? You gave it a 10 versus the 598's 9.5. 
   
  I have, yea. The thing is because my final music cans will probably be the LCD2+HE500 instead of the T1, I'm going to need new cans for gaming again. However if by some miracle the recabled T1 I'm gonna try manages to be as good as the HE500, I'll be set.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought you didn't like the LCD2? What changed?

I gave the AD700 a higher MP score due to the extreme accuracy it has in positioning. Only the DT770 Pro 80 matches it, but due to its muddy sound, it obviously doesn't work as well.

Again my scores aren't meant to be directly compared. They're there as a reference as to how I felt they performed for me, and not how they performed against one another. The HD598 is a better overall headphone than the AD700.

As amazing as the K701 is just off the Mixamp for gaming, its hard to tell people to buy it just for gaming purposes. They deserve an amp for every other purpose. The HD598 comes close and has an easier time unamped.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I thought you didn't like the LCD2? What changed?
> 
> I gave the AD700 a higher MP score due to the extreme accuracy it has in positioning. Only the DT770 Pro 80 matches it, but due to its muddy sound, it obviously doesn't work as well.
> 
> ...


 


  Yep that's right. Check the last post on this page http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/453116/audeze-lcd-2-orthos/12630
   
  Let's assume money isn't an object here (as I'm sure you've gathered with me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and I want the absolute best for competitive gaming straight into the 5.8 mixamp, i.e no other amp, to remain wireless. Which is best with mic and which is best without?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well dude, you have some flagships there that my recommendations probably couldn't even begin to compete with. If money's no object, then spending a few hundred on the K70x for MP ain't a thing. Yes, they are detail monsters, and if you're running with just the Mixamp, that means don't use a mic with them or you will need an amp. If you're gonna use a mic, then the HD598 would work. For that I would suggest just taking a minor hit and getting the PC360 instead.

For single player, hmmm, you probably already have your own mind made up for that. I'm sure the LCD2 would work well with the Mixamp. I hear it does well with little amping. Like the D7000.

I'm not fortunate enough to try flagships like you, so I'm not sure my recommendations apply to you, as they'll probably disappoint you since you're used to much better.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well dude, you have some flagships there that my recommendations probably couldn't even begin to compete with. If money's no object, then spending a few hundred on the K70x for MP ain't a thing. Yes, they are detail monsters, and if you're running with just the Mixamp, that means don't use a mic with them or you will need an amp. If you're gonna use a mic, then the HD598 would work. For that I would suggest just taking a minor hit and getting the PC360 instead.
> 
> For single player, hmmm, you probably already have your own mind made up for that. I'm sure the LCD2 would work well with the Mixamp. I hear it does well with little amping. Like the D7000.
> 
> I'm not fortunate enough to try flagships like you, so I'm not sure my recommendations apply to you, as they'll probably disappoint you since you're used to much better.


 


  Hmm, that's probably true. I tried the LCD2 again straight through the mixamp 2 days ago and it wasn't that bad, but it wasn't anywhere near as good as the T1/HD800/D7K. Also keep in mind the LCD2 has a very unique soundstage rather than the usual "the larger the better" so it wouldn't be very good. I'm convinced high end orthos in general just don't work better than dynamics for gaming because they're designed so differently, and they're also not comfortable for long gaming sessions. I'd take the comfort hit for listening to music of course but not laying back gaming.
   
  Even though I really do like the HE500 more than the T1 and it's cheaper, I keep thinking I'm going to have to get myself a T1 instead so I don't have to spend on inferior gaming cans or the D7000 JUST for single player (whose soundstage also would disappoint sometimes).


----------



## Chassz

Wow what an awesome guide! I'm really thinking of getting some HD 598's now but I don't have an amp or sound card (PC gamer) at the moment. Should I think about getting both or either for that headset or will it perform without them?


----------



## Biggles

Awesome thread! How would the HD598 compare to the AD700 in terms of soundstage and bass? Ordered the AD700 but unfortunately it can take some time to get here... So maybe I'm getting something else because I can change the order. I like to have allround headphone. So it must be good for gaming/music and movies. But gaming is the most important thing. Currently I'm using a HD457. Cheap sennie, but I like the vocals from my Sennheiser. The bass however is very eeeemh laidback so not in the face. But I can't really distinguish different basses. So in the next headphone I like to have some detailed bass. It most go deep but not too boomy  The soundstage should be good because of gaming. What would you guys recommend?


----------



## Alghazanth

Hey MLE, I'm really considering just getting the PC360 so I don't have to pay $400 more for the T1 just for gaming when I prefer the HE500 for music. Couple questions...
   
  1) How does the mic work with the mixamp? Do you just plug one cable into the headphone out and the mic works on xbox and ps3? No Y splitter?
   
  2) Can you imagine ever not being able to successfully soundwhore a certain detail with these that you would've been able to with the K701 or AD700?
   
  3) If the D7K is a 10/10 for SP, how much is the PC360 WITH bass boost? And how bad is the clipping? I know I got some with a few cans w/ bass boost on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I need to stress something because I'm getting PMs from people trying to to get me to suggest a headphone when they plan on gaming with no amp, stereo, and NOT with Dolby Headphone. I based this quick guide of headphones using DOLBY HEADPHONE. NO OTHER WAY. I CANNOT RECOMMEND ANYTHING OTHERWISE, BECAUSE I DON'T PLAY ANY OTHER WAY. /caps

If you're on PC, getting something with Dolby Headphone like the Asus Essence STX and using it with games that have Dolby Digital, or Dolby Pro Logic II is the ONLY way you can take my guide seriously, since then you'd be listening to games the way I do. I don't ever play stereo, or use CMSS or other dsps, so don't ask me otherwise.

If your gaming on PS3, 360, etc, then ONLY take my guide seriously if you use something like the Mixamp, DSS, AX720, or receivers with DOLBY HEADPHONE. THAT IS IT. I'm gonna have to ask a mod to edit the title to make people understand this, since they don't wanna read.

Biggles, the HD598 doesn't have a big bass impact. Its somewhat shy of bass neutral, but has just a tad more than the bass missing AD700s.

Alg, the Y cable. You plug in the PC360's two jacks to the Y cable, and Y cable to the Mixamp, THAT'S IT.

The PC360 is an all around workhorse. It isn't a terribly exciting can, but is well balanced picks up all the sounds you need to hear, as awesome positioning and great soundstage, and has a great mic with its own volume control on the right cup and goes mute when you swivel the mic up. If you need to soundwhore more than this, you have bionic ears because I can't pick up more sounds than the PC360, though something like the K701 may emphasize certain frequencies making them sound clearer. The PC360 doesn't emphasize. Everything is important to it, so you will hear everything on the same level. Get it? Its not the best, but it certainly does everything well enough to where you won't be missing the best, and enjoy having an all in one solution that just works extremely well.

Bass boost with PC360 isn't going to dethrone other SP cans, but it certainly does enough to please me. I dunno what else to say. I suggest just trying it out and experiencing it for yourself. Again, not super exciting, but it has no glaring flaws either.


----------



## tibble89

Anyone used the Roccat Vire? I really want to try some earphones for gaming..


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> Anyone used the Roccat Vire? I really want to try some earphones for gaming..


 


  I really would not recommend earphones or IEMs for gaming, ever. Soundstage and positioning is too important (not just for soundwhoring, but for SP immersion) and only full sized cans can really deliver.
   
  That said, Roccat does have the best mouse ever (Kone +)


----------



## tibble89

Mm.. headphones + dolby headphone doesn't seem to work for me, though. I have some cheap earphones and I prefer them..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then you're doing it wrong. D=

What are you playing with headphones + DH? What headphones? DH is VERY reliant on whatever headphone you use. If you use a closed headphone, DH won't work nearly as well as open. Some good headphones don't sound good with DH, like the M50. I've had almost nothing bad to say about any open headphone with DH though.

Also, you can't compare audio fidelity of stereo vs DH. In direct comparison, DH sounds echoey and like a concert hall effect. You have to get used to that, and then it will sound normal. The main reason to use DH is for the surround and positioning. Everything else will fall in place later.


----------



## tibble89

Mixamp with AD700's and now bought the TurtleBeach HPX1's which people recommended, same thing with both.. not much positioning for me  Used both optical & rca..


----------



## ziocomposite

sounds like you are playing black ops lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ziocomposite said:


> sounds like you are playing black ops lol




Seriously. DH also varies on the game you play. Black Ops is one such example of a game that won't do anything for DH. The older Modern Warfare and MW2 are MUCH better at demoing DH.


----------



## tibble89

Think I said before, I've had better results on Black Ops.. Are people playing with the mixamp cranked up to max? Seriously confused as to why some people love it, and for me.. there's nothing for me to hear, only team mates footsteps and explosions. Rare to hear opponents walking past or near me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why do people love the Mixamp? Gee, let me think. Because it's awesome? 

If that's all you can hear, then it's the same with NO MATTER what you use. Lol. Mixamp is just taking the Dolby Digital audio and matrixing it to DH. You're hearing the audio the games are putting out. :confused_face_2:


----------



## tibble89

I said BlackOps seems better for me.. What %'s is roughly the mixamp dials on for people here?
   
  Don't know if it affects anything but does anyone here use the Slim? Possible reason, no idea. I rarely use headphones or listen to loud music to my ears should be perfect.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Then you're doing it wrong. D=
> 
> What are you playing with headphones + DH? What headphones? DH is VERY reliant on whatever headphone you use.* If you use a closed headphone, DH won't work nearly as well as open*. Some good headphones don't sound good with DH, like the M50. I've had almost nothing bad to say about any open headphone with DH though.
> 
> Also, you can't compare audio fidelity of stereo vs DH. In direct comparison, DH sounds echoey and like a concert hall effect. You have to get used to that, and then it will sound normal. The main reason to use DH is for the surround and positioning. Everything else will fall in place later.


 
  Mostly, though not entirely true. The Edition 8 retains a huge soundstage with DH, though I don't know about the lower end S-logics.
  
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I still don't understand you guys and your audio issues with Black Ops. Yes, the game has an awful sound engine and files. However, soundwhoring itself is exactly the same in this game as it is in MW2, and I would know considering I logged over 700 hours into MW2 hardcore S&D.
   
  HOWEVER: For this to be true, make sure you set the sound settings to Theater and quiet (more bass) or loud (less bass). The "surround headphones" is worthless, I used it at first too and had the same positioning issues.
   
  As for the AD700+mixamp in Blops, it works incredibly well for soundwhoring,one of the best there is at any price. If you aren't getting superb positioning with it, try those sound settings, and if if you still can't soundwhore, there might be something wrong with the cans or amp.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> I said BlackOps seems better for me.. What %'s is roughly the mixamp dials on for people here?
> 
> Don't know if it affects anything but does anyone here use the Slim? Possible reason, no idea. I rarely use headphones or listen to loud music to my ears should be perfect.


 


  Yes I have the 360 slim, used to have the Premium. No audio difference.


----------



## Inquartata

S-Logic with the HFI-780+DH from the MixAmp pairs fairly well (okay, really well, at least to me, and I'm loath to use my A40s now). Not as good a soundstage as most open headphones, but better than some other closed cans I've tried (SRH750DJ, ATH-M50, Phiaton MS400). 
   
  As for volume on the MixAmp, the 780 runs around 10%, maybe. It's too loud on a most games' default sound levels, honestly, and I keep having to turn the volume in the games down pretty far to where it's comfortable. But if I turn the MixAmp volume down any further than the 10%, the sound over the headphones goes a bit wonky (either more or less in one earcup or the other). But if I'm using the A40 (still better for competitive FPS than the 780), the volume usually goes to just under 50% (there's also voice/mic volume being mixed in at that point, as well).
   
  Connection from the 360 is via optical.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





inquartata said:


> S-Logic with the HFI-780+DH from the MixAmp pairs fairly well (okay, really well, at least to me, and I'm loath to use my A40s now). Not as good a soundstage as most open headphones, but better than some other closed cans I've tried (SRH750DJ, ATH-M50, Phiaton MS400).
> 
> As for volume on the MixAmp, the 780 runs around 10%, maybe. It's too loud on a most games' default sound levels, honestly, and I keep having to turn the volume in the games down pretty far to where it's comfortable. But if I turn the MixAmp volume down any further than the 10%, the sound over the headphones goes a bit wonky (either more or less in one earcup or the other). But if I'm using the A40 (still better for competitive FPS than the 780), the volume usually goes to just under 50% (there's also voice/mic volume being mixed in at that point, as well).
> 
> Connection from the 360 is via optical.


 

 Yea S-Logic works surprisngly well with DH. I expected it to be a mess, but my Ed8 soundstage and positioning w/ DH is not too far off from the T1 (still my favorite overall for gaming), which is pretty much the same story with stereo music.
   
  How is it loud enough at just 10% on the mixamp though? That's very, very weird. Even with the easy to drive AD700 I think I had mine at 50%. Do you have the wired mixamp?


----------



## Inquartata

Yeah, it's a wired MixAmp. It could be 15%, but it is definitely far below 25%. I thought it was weird, too! I should go test it with other headphones to see if it's just my 780s or if the other cans I have are like that (I can't remember because it's been a while since I tried the others).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired Mixamp needs less on the knob than the 5.8, so you must REALLY like your volume low. I play with mine at about 70% with the game/voice at 50/50, and about 60% with the game/voice all the way towards game.


----------



## Ricanlegend

First off this is my first post and i wanna say i love your list it gives very good unbiased opinions, Right now i cant decide between getting Sennheiser HD 598 or the PC 360, but after reading you view and many people review of the  Sennheiser HD 598 i think this is going to be the better choice, i just want to know whats a good Mic to go along with it ? Can you please give me a link to a couple of mic that a can clip on ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd give the HD598 a SLIGHT edge over the PC360 for GAMING, but I'd take the all in one functionality of the PC360 over the micless HD598 any day of the week. If you're planning on mostly gaming, I suggest the PC360 for the ease of use. The PC360 is better balanced, while the HD598 has a slight emphasis on mids, with the bass being just a little weaker in comparison.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd give the HD598 a SLIGHT edge over the PC360 for GAMING, but I'd take the all in one functionality of the PC360 over the micless HD598 any day of the week. If you're planning on mostly gaming, I suggest the PC360 for the ease of use. The PC360 is better balanced, while the HD598 has a slight emphasis on mids, with the bass being just a little weaker in comparison.


 

 Is the PC360 bass neutral or what?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's how I'd define them in my ears.

PC360 is bass neutral
HD598 is slightly bass shy
DT880 is slightly bass heavy
K701 is slightly bass shy
HE4 is heavier in bass than the DT880
KSC75 is slightly bass heavy, though the KSC75's sound sig is a hard one to understand because it sounds different due to how it's placed, and our ear shapes. If you manage to get them closer to your ears, they will sound muffled and boomy (PX200 pads made them sound like typical bass heavy, detail lacking budget fi cans...dunno why anyone would mos them with those terrible pads). However, where they sit on my ears, they sound just balanced with some minor bass emphasis.

Those are the most balanced out of my recommendations, in that they're just shy or just heavy of balanced.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's how I'd define them in my ears.
> 
> PC360 is bass neutral
> HD598 is slightly bass shy
> ...


 

 How much distortion do you get with the PC360 w/ bass boost during the bigger impact moments? I know for instance in Rez HD when the ships are firing missiles right by me, with the bass boost and every can I tried there is like a full second of distortion.


----------



## TMRaven

I listen with game/chat audio at around 40% game/60% chat.  The master volume is roughly around 40%.  With the wired mixamp, anything below 30% creates a channel imbalance-- a huge one at that, and anything above 60% creates static.  That's with the AD700.  The DT990 600ohm can get away with game volume 100% and master volume at around 60%, though it's not driven as well as it could be.
   
  I too find no issues with sound whoring in black ops.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> How much distortion do you get with the PC360 w/ bass boost during the bigger impact moments? I know for instance in Rez HD when the ships are firing missiles right by me, with the bass boost and every can I tried there is like a full second of distortion.




I honestly don't use bass boost on the PC360 that often because I only wear them when I play competitively (asides from when I first got them). Now that I have nothing but them and the KSC75, I'll be sure to test it out more. I remember mostly playing Castlevania: Lord Of Shadows with the Bass Bost on and was thoroughly enjoying the sound off the PC360.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  So you were using the HE4 for SP the whole time huh? Something is just off with orthos and gaming for me, I don't know what it is,  but it just doesn't feel right like dynamics.
  
  Also, Lords of Shadow is awesome.
   
  Btw is the PC360 mic detachable or can it only be put upright?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It can only be put upright. And I didn't game with the HE4 much, but I used them competitively too. They worked quite well. Better than the DT880 for me.


----------



## tibble89

You have volume at 70%? Holy cow. No wonder you hear everything.. that's not really a viable option for most, including me.. my ears would just burst


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote:


tibble89 said:


> You have volume at 70%? Holy cow. No wonder you hear everything.. that's not really a viable option for most, including me.. my ears would just burst


 


  Completely depends on the can in question. But 70% volume for the AD700 is indeed too much for COD, but 10% is like nothing.


----------



## tibble89

I have it about 30-40%. If DH only works when it's loud, it's not really working is it..  surely with a true surround sound setup you wouldn't need to have it that loud


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





tibble89 said:


> I have it about 30-40%. If DH only works when it's loud, it's not really working is it..  surely with a true surround sound setup you wouldn't need to have it that loud


 

 I never said DH only works when it's loud, rather the AD700s with only 10% of the mixamp's volume is extremely quiet. If you're expecting to be able to soundwhore at such a low volume, no wonder you're disappointed. 40% sounds alright I guess.


----------



## TMRaven

10% on mixamp also creates a channel imbalance.  30-40% is minimum sound you need for it.  I think I'd probably hear less at 70% volume than I would at 40% volume.  That sounds overly excessive and would desensitize my ears temporarily.  Same goes with music really, you don't have to have the volume up high to hear all the details.


----------



## Inquartata

Yeah, I'm not using the AD700 at 10-15%, I'm using the HFI780 at 10-15% (with no mic). If I go under 10-15% (can't get an exact reading), the sound gets imbalanced. If I use the A40s (which I'll only haul out for halo or cod), they're at 40-50%, with a mic, with game/voice at 50%. 
   
  AH HA.
   
  Just went and messed around with it. The game/voice dial had been set to 100% game (when did THAT happen?). That's why the sound was getting a bit painfully loud. If I put the game/voice at 50%, I can bump the master volume up to 30-40%, and that goes for most of the closed cans I have on-hand.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





inquartata said:


> Yeah, I'm not using the AD700 at 10-15%, I'm using the HFI780 at 10-15% (with no mic). If I go under 10-15% (can't get an exact reading), the sound gets imbalanced. If I use the A40s (which I'll only haul out for halo or cod), they're at 40-50%, with a mic, with game/voice at 50%.
> 
> AH HA.
> 
> Just went and messed around with it. The game/voice dial had been set to 100% game (when did THAT happen?). That's why the sound was getting a bit painfully loud. If I put the game/voice at 50%, I can bump the master volume up to 30-40%, and that goes for most of the closed cans I have on-hand.


 
  Actually I use it at about 50% with the dial all the way to game.


----------



## rayuma

MLE, do you use the E7/E9 when gaming on consoles? Or is it only for PC use?


----------



## Narwayo

How is the sub bass in the DT990?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rayuma said:


> MLE, do you use the E7/E9 when gaming on consoles? Or is it only for PC use?




The E7 serves no purpose other than as a PC DAC or portable amp, so it's unused when gaming on consoles.

I only used the E9 for console gaming when I had hard to drive headphones like the HE4, K701, and DT990/600ohm. I don't use it with the PC360, KSC75...

Narwayo, As for the sub bass in the DT990... wonderful. Like a closed headphone. Nice and room filling, and a bit quicker in decay. Best bass I've heard. the only one I can think of that's similar is the HE4, which has just a little less quantity.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





rayuma said:


> MLE, do you use the E7/E9 when gaming on consoles? Or is it only for PC use?


 


  For future ref:
  E9 = amp only
  E7 = DAC and amp
  E7+E9 = DAC from E7, amp from E9, but only if your source is connecting to the E9 via USB...which rules out its use with consoles in this config.


----------



## Narwayo

I am waiting that new stock of dt990s 600 arrives at one of europe amazon shops. It's very difficult to find the 600 Ohm model and I want to buy a pair to a certificate shop, don't want any issue with warranty...I have the possibility to buy now the Ultrasone pro 2900 to a german shop that sells in all europe, and they are very reliable, they offer a 30 days money back and 3 years guarantee on their products, but they cost 150 euros more than the dt990


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd really shoot for the Pro 2900 if I had a chance, but I'm still wary of the comfort. I simply have to try out a pair of Ultrasones to make a fair assessment. Too many conflicting views on comfort.


----------



## Narwayo

Yes I read conflicting opinions about their comfort too. They have velours pads, so this is a positive point. I think that in the case I will buy the 2900 I will force the metallic band to open wide the clamping force if this is uncomfortable. I am searching a good place too where to eventually buy D7000. Just being the 2900 open back it seems they could have a better soundstage. but as this affect the overall sound I don't know, as if the bass decreases compared to pro 900 and D7k.


----------



## MohawkUS

I got a pair of PRO 2900 coming in tomorrow, I'll let you guys know how it goes.
  If you want one though, get one of the better known stores to price match Spectrum Audio, Spectrum lists it at $386 when you add it to your cart, Moon Audio went down to $415 for me.


----------



## Narwayo

Waiting for your comments so!


----------



## Bummrounde

This thread is amazing.  111 pages is beyond readable, but thank god the first posts are up-to-date.  What exactly is the Mixamp?  Is it a Dolby decoder?  If I have a 5.1 receiver with a ¼ inch headphone jack in the front am I going to hear the same thing?  I'm sold that this device works and can be amazing, but I do want to understand it better.  Astro's site doesn't supply details.  I have an optical out on my old PS2, will the Mixamp simulate surround using stereo feeds?


----------



## wichogt

I did a quick search on denon receivers that offered dolby headphone, to see if I could kill two birds with one stone. But it seems the only one whit that function is the one that costs $5k+ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I was hoping to get one for about $300-$500. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  do you guys know if there's any low cost receiver whit DH?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





wichogt said:


> I did a quick search on denon receivers that offered dolby headphone, to see if I could kill two birds with one stone. But it seems the only one whit that function is the one that costs $5k+
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Just about all Harman Kardons within the past 4-5 years and some mid-range Denon receivers do it. I'm using an HK avr-247.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





bummrounde said:


> This thread is amazing.  111 pages is beyond readable, but thank god the first posts are up-to-date.  What exactly is the Mixamp?  Is it a Dolby decoder?  If I have a 5.1 receiver with a ¼ inch headphone jack in the front am I going to hear the same thing?  I'm sold that this device works and can be amazing, but I do want to understand it better.  Astro's site doesn't supply details.  I have an optical out on my old PS2, will the Mixamp simulate surround using stereo feeds?


 


  If I'm not mistaken, the Mixamp decodes Dolby for headphones, i.e. downmixes the 5.1 / 7.1 signal from optical/digital format (via USB or TOSLink) into a stereo signal that our headphones can handle. I'm not so sure that regular receivers do this.
   
  Astro's site doesn't go into great detail on this point, but it does list "Dolby Headphone"--and here's Dolby's page on this technology:
http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html


----------



## wichogt

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Just about all Harman Kardons within the past 4-5 years and some mid-range Denon receivers do it. I'm using an HK avr-247.


 
  Yes all have some sort of headphone surround mode, but non states "Dolby Headphone" for example:

 the Denon ones have this "virtual surround mode for headphones"
  the Harman Kardons have "HARMAN headphone surround mode"
  the Onkyo ones have "Onkyo Game surround mode"
   
  know, I don't have any clue if they perform the same, similar or better than DH.(if anyone knows this, I'll be glad to hear your opinions)
   
  btw they also have their own auto EQ system insted of Audyssey or a basic one (except Denon) wich I think is a must have.
   
  all this in my price range of $300-$400


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HK DOES have receivers with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





wichogt said:


> Yes all have some sort of headphone surround mode, but non states "Dolby Headphone" for example:
> 
> the Denon ones have this "virtual surround mode for headphones"
> the Harman Kardons have "HARMAN headphone surround mode"
> ...


 

 heh, looks like both Denon and HK no longer does DH on their current line of receivers. Find an older model on ebay or something and just see if you can spot the Dolby Headphone logo next to the headphone jack like on mine, HK AVR-247.


----------



## NewMACAdress

yeah i know for a fact that Denon doesn't offer DH on their receivers.  I have called about my receiver a few times and i always nagged myself to remember to ask them about it and i finally did and was let down by their response.(obviously,...no)


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





travelbigtime said:


> Do you guys travel so often with your headset? Check out this site about hotel guides. You can get a lot of information about the site http://www.thehotelfacts.com


----------



## Alghazanth

MLE,
   
  With the mixamp 5.8 and hard to drive cans sometimes there is clipping/distortion/sudden half second sound drops. Does this disappear with the wired mixamp and/or with another amp connected?


----------



## Headfonenut123

alghazanth said:


> MLE, With the mixamp 5.8 and hard to drive cans sometimes there is clipping/distortion/sudden half second sound drops. Does this disappear with the wired mixamp and/or with another amp connected?



Glad I'm not only person with this problem, I have the wired version and get the same problem, was playing dead space 2 when it happened, one of the last levels and there was alot of enemies coming at once and the sound distorted then disappeared for about a second or so.

This is using my dt 990 600ohm with wired mixamp and fiio e9


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea, I never noticed it before. Was checking out my ED8 and HD800 in MW2, and there were two or three instances of 1-second dropouts. Reminds me of the X41. Strangely enough, I don't remember this ever happening with my T1s.
   
  But I was using it straight to the 5.8. If it's happening with the E9 too...
   
  EDIT: Just a theory, but perhaps it's the limited frequency response of the mixamp? Would that be able to limit the headphone's output and distort sound?


----------



## Ra97oR

Now for more overkill gaming setup, I am going to report how well STAX fare on FPSs. 

Once Steam is back up that is.


----------



## NewMACAdress

OMG lol


----------



## Narwayo

I use the E9 with xbox 360 too. Looking for an upgrade, would be the Nuforce Icon Hdp a good idea for an overall use? Dac, Amp, and with console? The nuforce hpd would be able to feed the beyerdynamic 600 ohm as the E9 is capable of?


----------



## Ra97oR

Played a few games of Neotokyo and Bad Company 2 on it. Definitely a great performer for the competitive type, it is not as bass light as my AD1000PRM but the positioning is even better and even in very big gunfights you can still hear the vital cues from the chaos.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> Played a few games of Neotokyo and Bad Company 2 on it. Definitely a great performer for the competitive type, it is not as bass light as my AD1000PRM but the positioning is even better and even in very big gunfights you can still hear the vital cues from the chaos.


 
   
  You've opened the floodgates.

 We need an O2 v 009 v Orpheus on a DIY T2 comparison now...


----------



## Headfonenut123

alghazanth said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Its got to be something with the mixamp, i think mine maybe is faulty or I also remember reading on here I think someone said that the mixamp overloads if too many sounds are coming through it if that is the right terminology.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp does have a limited response, so it may have issues when a lot is going on, especially with a lot of bass. Fortunately its infrequent, and not a dealbreaker for me. Easy to drive cans seem to deal with it better.


----------



## TMRaven

On the computer being fed through the already loud music streamer, the mixamp does indeed clip on a lot of bass-heavy songs for me, but on ps3 it seems to be ok.  My guess is it's the music streamer's high (preamp?) output level.  Ironically if I make the mixamp try to drive the DT990/600 directly on the ps3, there isn't such clipping.


----------



## Headfonenut123

The strange thing is though that I getting the issue on the pc 360 as well, with both headphones when running around on assassins creed brotherhood and whenever I run past people and there are talking I get distortion


----------



## MohawkUS

First impressions on the PRO2900.... It demolishes anything else I've tried for gaming, the AD900 is left in the dust, perfect positioning in every direction. I think Dolby was made for this headphone.
  More impressions to come after burn in.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> First impressions on the PRO2900.... It demolishes anything else I've tried for gaming, the AD900 is left in the dust, perfect positioning in every direction. I think Dolby was made for this headphone.
> More impressions to come after burn in.


 


  Interesting. Pretty much same here with the ED8, though I still feel it lacking in soundstage compared to the wide open behemoths. Doesn't effect positioning in the least though, only immersion.


----------



## MohawkUS

Yeah, I find the soundstage amazing, but it is lacking the airy sound that I loved from the AD900. Its worth the trade off for the bass though.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Yeah, I find the soundstage amazing, but it is lacking the airy sound that I loved from the AD900. Its worth the trade off for the bass though.


 


  Indeed, the AD700 has forever addicted me to airy sound. Were it not for that goddamn purple fairy, the ED8 would be all I ever needed for anything.


----------



## MohawkUS

If I had to compare it, I'd say it has half the airyness of the AD900, I'm glad I chose an open Ultrasone, half of my music sounds lifeless out of any closed phones now. So far I'm loving the Slogic, It really is like a 5.1 set at times. Some people will hate it for that, but I found it works wonders for folk, and atmospheric music. Sounds a little unnatural for some stuff though.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> If I had to compare it, I'd say it has half the airyness of the AD900, I'm glad I chose an open Ultrasone, half of my music sounds lifeless out of any closed phones now. So far I'm loving the Slogic, It really is like a 5.1 set at times. Some people will hate it for that, but I found it works wonders for folk, and atmospheric music. Sounds a little unnatural for some stuff though.


 


  Oh I forgot that one is open. 
   
  I know what you mean about lifeless/artificial sound in closed cans, very much my experience listening to my beloved D7Ks after the T1s, HD800s, etc. The Edition 8 is the only exception to the rule though, best closed can ever.  S-Logic must really be something if it can manage to create this kind of stage in a can as tiny and closed as the ED8. 
   
  Only people I can imagine "hating" a can for being wide and immersive are people who have only heard closed cans/low end Grados.I don't know what you mean about the soundstage being unnatural though, you don't really get that until the AD700/900, K70x, and HD800.


----------



## Narwayo

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I'm glad I chose an open Ultrasone.


 


  This is the reason because I would prefer this model over the pro 900. How are the bass and the sub bass?


----------



## Narwayo

Alghazanth, how are bass and sub bass of T1?
   
  I own a dt880 600ohm, but as I like a lot this model with music, his bass is insufficient for explosions and in giving a more cinematic atmosphere to the gameplay and movies


----------



## MohawkUS

I'm still burning them in, but its not as much as I expected. Of course after reading the reviews of the PRO900 I expected the bass to make my head implode. Its great, a little boomy at the moment, but its not getting in the way or slowing down the music. My only complaint at the moment is that the cord is too short. 
   
  EDIT: Ignore my comments on bass quantity, 10 hours in and I think its close to doubled on Electric Wizard's Mind Transferal, my bass test track.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





narwayo said:


> Alghazanth, how are bass and sub bass of T1?
> 
> I own a dt880 600ohm, but as I like a lot this model with music, his bass is insufficient for explosions and in giving a more cinematic atmosphere to the gameplay and movies


 


  T1 has more and better bass than the DT880, and less quantity but far better quality than DT990. Anyone who likes the DT880 needs to hear the T1.  It's just about bass neutral, perhaps slightly above or below. It's not subwoofer bass nor should it be, but I certainly wouldn't mind a little bit extra quantity. That said it's still my favorite gaming can overall. D7000 has the bass but not the soundstage, HD800 has the gigantic soundstage but not the bass and the 'stage is too artificial, and T1 is just about in between. T1 w/ the mixamp and DH is an experience very similar to the T1 with music: Everything sounds absolutely natural and totally engrossing, but it won't "WOW" you with anything in particular. HE500 would be the absolute best if only orthos didn't sound so off compared to dynamics with games, as it's basically the T1 but with more bass.


----------



## Narwayo

It seems that for now, the only two (cheaper) headphones that can give some bass and some soundstage at the same time are the ultrasone pro 2900 and the beyerdynamic dt990...


----------



## MohawkUS

The PRO2900 has a great midrange, a less exciting, but more detailed/textured than Grado. It doesn't seem affected by bass nor treble, and it sounds really natural.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FAR better bass than the DT990 sounds like hyperbole. It may be better, but I'm sure you're grossly exaggerating. 

I can't believe everything I read because its always glowing reviews, toppling titans, and other such claims that end up being copletely untrue.

But hey, whatever.


----------



## Narwayo

Mad Lust Envy, you are using the pc360 now for gaming. How they are? Comfort, soundstage, bass....
  The pads are of fake leather and now that we are in summer have you any issue with them?
  I see that on amazon uk here in europe, the are at almost 100. They could be a good choice...


----------



## Narwayo

I am sorry I was wrong, are pc350s that cost 100.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The pads are NOT pleather. They are velour. The comfort = great (it's a little tight, so over extend them past what you think is the right size and they will be comfy). Soundstage is huge. Not AD700 or K701 huge, but 3rd biggest, tied with the HD598. Its the biggest and most natural. Bass is neutral. For hardcore gaming, bass will be spot on, and for sinple player, I use my 5.8's bass expander. No issue with bass. 

Make sure you're looking at the PC360 NOT PC350.


----------



## Narwayo

I was wrong, I find only pc350 sold by amazon. The pc360 are sold by third sellers...


----------



## Headfonenut123

narwayo said:


> I was wrong, I find only pc350 sold by amazon. The pc360 are sold by third sellers...



I just checked amazon and they are selling the pc360 through themselves


----------



## Narwayo

Quote: 





headfonenut123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
 Yes you are right, I noticed better and they sells them too, it seems just they are waiting for new stock as they are going to dispatch them within 2 to 3 weeks...


----------



## Grayle

Okay, I think I'm slowly going insane. Oh how I regret ever considering upgrading from my crappy Razer Barracuda headset. Life was simple before I found this place, you know? Music was music, and I took whatever I could get sound-quality wise because, well, what the hell did I know? I thought I'd reached whatever music had to offer when I bought a $30 pair of Sennheiser IEMs years back. But now... now I want, nay _need _more. Well I hope you're all happy!
   
  Anyway, I've poured over the first post many a time, and read a fair bit of this thread, and read other threads and then I read some more and I am done. For now. Just, someone, please tell me which cans offer excellent positional audio with DH but are also awesome at music and movies. Assume I have a Sonar Essence STX and a $350 budget max for the cans. And, say, $200 for an AMP. Max.
   
  I game on the PC, of course, and Bad Company 2 and the CoD series are my main multiplayer games. Single player is all over the place: Metro 2033, Mass Effect, Oblivion, Fallout, FEAR, The Witcher, etc. Basically everything except RTS.
   
  Music-wise it's more electronic/house music, some rock/metal, a bit of jazz. Oh man, if you'd told me a month ago different headphones sound better for certain genres of music I'd have thought you had a screw loose. Ah, those good old days.
   
  I was recommended the ATH AD-2000s by Audioholic! over at Game-fi but those cost close to a grand. I can't seem to find any decent info on the Denon AH-D2000s with Dolby Headphone either. The K701 is too difficult to amp and too analytic for music (elektro and other mixed music, that is. I think. I know I read that somewhere) apparently. The DT990 seems like the perfect fit, but the rear positional audio isn't as good as others, and that is one thing that drives me crazy. Also too much treble? And it's ugly as sin, but that can be overlooked. The HD598s only get a 6 for fun in MLE's list, but I don't see any real reason for such a low score. Is the bass really that non-existent? Oh Lord, I'm sorry to pile this all on you guys, but nothing ventured nothing gained, right?


----------



## rashbeep

Quote: 





grayle said:


> Okay, I think I'm slowly going insane. Oh how I regret ever considering upgrading from my crappy Razer Barracuda headset. Life was simple before I found this place, you know? Music was music, and I took whatever I could get sound-quality wise because, well, what the hell did I know? I thought I'd reached whatever music had to offer when I bought a $30 pair of Sennheiser IEMs years back. But now... now I want, nay _need _more. Well I hope you're all happy!
> 
> Anyway, I've poured over the first post many a time, and read a fair bit of this thread, and read other threads and then I read some more and I am done. For now. Just, someone, please tell me which cans offer excellent positional audio with DH but are also awesome at music and movies. Assume I have a Sonar Essence STX and a $350 budget max for the cans. And, say, $200 for an AMP. Max.
> 
> ...


 


   pretty sure a lot of people use the d2000's for gaming and love them. ahhh i hope the sound design in skyrim is amazing, can't wait to play that game with some decent phones. oh yea and bf3 of course!


----------



## MohawkUS

See if you can find the Xonar Essence for $150 and put that extra $50 into your headphones and you can get the PRO2900. I just got off fallout NV and I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. The game is filled with ambient sounds that I'd been missing out on. I was just wandering about simply amazed at how great it sounded..... and then a car exploded. The bass just about knocked me out of my seat. The amazing thing about the PRO900/2900s are that they have amazing bass, but it stays out of the way of the other frequencies. Its the best of both worlds for immersion and positional audio.
   
   I don't know about the AD2000, but I found the AD900 terrible for electronic music and not so good for metal. It fared well in rock. For the best gaming performance you really need an open can. Angled or displaced drivers are also a huge plus(Ultrasones/ Sennheiser 5xx series). 
   
  From my brief time trying the Senn 598 I can tell you it had a massive, airy soundstage and it fared well with electronica. It was too laid back for metal.


----------



## hellbringer

Hi!
   
  I'm going to buy new headphones, mostly for gaming and i would like to use Dolby Headphone with it like my old G35.
  I have a Xonar Essencer sound card.
   
  I was recommended to buy the Pioneer HDJ-2000, should i buy them?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





grayle said:


> Okay, I think I'm slowly going insane. Oh how I regret ever considering upgrading from my crappy Razer Barracuda headset. Life was simple before I found this place, you know? Music was music, and I took whatever I could get sound-quality wise because, well, what the hell did I know? I thought I'd reached whatever music had to offer when I bought a $30 pair of Sennheiser IEMs years back. But now... now I want, nay _need _more. Well I hope you're all happy!
> 
> Anyway, I've poured over the first post many a time, and read a fair bit of this thread, and read other threads and then I read some more and I am done. For now. Just, someone, please tell me which cans offer excellent positional audio with DH but are also awesome at music and movies. Assume I have a Sonar Essence STX and a $350 budget max for the cans. And, say, $200 for an AMP. Max.
> 
> ...


 

 DT990- I would not get this gaming or music because of the recessed midrange, but obviously people here don't care because of the bass. If bass is extremely important to you, this would be the ideal mix of it + soundstage, but if you're like me and have graduated from the "MUST HAVE GOBS OF BASS" mentality, you'd do better elsewhere. And for music only, the treble is indeed piercing. 
   
  D2000- They're great for gaming, but I stopped using them as soon as I heard the AD700. Soundstage is just too important for ALL gaming to use 99% of closed cans.
   
  HD598- It has bass, but not much. Somewhere in between bass neutral and bass anemic.
   
  AD2000- No idea, ask Raptor.
   
  K701- Yes that's all true. 
   
  You could buy yourself an STX, or just use an astro mixamp and save some $.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DT990 because midrange is still clear and audible. Big bass will always equal recessed midrange or rolled off treble. Anyone who thinks having bass emphasis without trade offs is delusional. The DT990 will work for his purposes. 

Also its the DT880 with rear positional cue problems, not the DT990.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm going to buy new headphones, mostly for gaming and i would like to use Dolby Headphone with it like my old G35.
> I have a Xonar Essencer sound card.
> ...


 
   
   
  Can somone please answer my questation?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DT990 because midrange is still clear and audible. Big bass will always equal recessed midrange or rolled off treble. Anyone who thinks having bass emphasis without trade offs *is delusional*. The DT990 will work for his purposes.
> 
> Also its the DT880 with rear positional cue problems, not the DT990.


 


 That describes lots of people around here...


----------



## wichogt

haha I wonder what you guys mean by Big Bass, I have only heard my HD555 with my crappy laptop soundcard, ipod nano 3g and an 8 years old pionner HTBI. and contrary to most peopple I found them to be bassy some times, with the ps3 bbc2 on wartapes mode sounds so bassy it drowns the voices
   
  I imagine the bass can be better in quality but wishing more bass? realy? talking about loudness in a scale of 1-10 how much louder could be the DT-990? just curious.
   
  Sorry for any miss speling..


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> Can somone please answer my questation?


 

 And who recommended you the HDJ-2000 for gaming?


----------



## NewMACAdress

To the man who is going through the same thing everyone else here has gone through (Grayle)
HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH, OW This hurts 
HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH,
   
  Indeed i am sorry and would like to apologize for my fingers behavior but they drank a little Canadian whiskey and find your post to AMAZINGLY and grossly
  hilarious for the simple fact that i like MANY others have been through this same thing. No offense to MLE (The originator of this Thread) but how the hell do you do it lol.    Goodluck in your quest.  All i can say is that if you read to much and don't buy, then all you can do is freaking "INVISION" what people are talking about.  
  Just buy what sounds right to you.
  You WILL find this website to be a second hobby and it will make you realize in six months that going to college to get a doctorate might not be all that hard after realizing how much you have read on this website(fortunately the anatomy of the human body is mainly non debateable and headphones, unfortunately are)  
  Just get the Denon ah-d2000 you won't be disappointed music wise(depending on your age you might find music to be more appealing in the long run) and will have a LOT of fun with them. If you would never try any other hps or read about them then you will be better off.  Next, pc360(my next route) if u want a Gaming headset with a mic, this is the Best GAMING headphone with a mic.Then, ad700 for strictly wanting the best headphone that can be used for gaming  and don't want to bother worrying about a clip on mic and just want a GAMING headset(no music).
  You WILL come back to this website eventually for a music headphone and will read for EVER about them and never be able to find the best one so i would like to make a suggestion and tell you to get something like the 598 (if you can get an amp) or an ah-d2000 so you can get a good sense of what you want in the future when the upgradeitis hits you.  Once again, good luck!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> That describes lots of people around here...




Seriously. You hear people describe certain headphones has having big bass, full midrange, and sparkly highs. That is absolute nonsense. Our ears can't take all three emphasized like that. It will sound artificial, or everything will be balanced out to a higher degree. There's NO way to emphasize something without making something else a bit muted/distant/lower in volume. Take something like the XB500, which is all bass, zero mids, and very little treble. If you leave bass where it is, raise mids and highs to the same level as the bass, the sound balances out, and the bass won't sound as prominent. Yes, the impact will be lessened because everything else has been brought up to par. The bass wasn't touched, yet it doesn't sound as strong. That's just nature of the beast.

By that logic, yes the mids on the DT990 are recessed because bass and treble are emphasized. However, people make it sound like mids are gone. The mids are audible and clear, just NOT the focus of the sound.

I'm so flipping tired of these mundane OMGZ TEH MIDZ R RECISED comments. What else do you want from a bass and treble can? Christ. if you want TRUE mid recession, that's the DT770 Pro 80. Next to those, the DT990 has some pretty FULL mids. :rolleyes:

Funny how it's these people who were once praising the DT990.

I may move on to bigger and better things, but I don't put down a headphone because I found something better, unlike some posters. The DT990 is still one of my very faves, and I can easily recommend them to anyone that can take it's sizzling treble.

I'm so fed up with Head-fi mentality. I've since sold all my mains, and now I'm more than happy with just the KSC75, PC360, and the soon to come KSC35 for all my audio needs. Team Less Is MORE. I know there is better out there, but since I'm now focusing on ENJOYING my sound, instead of enjoying the equipment, I found that one doesn't need to spend much of anything to find auditory bliss. I think once my funds stabilize later on, I'm gonna get one pair of full sized comfy open cans, and that's it. Nothing past a few hundred dollars either. I may just get the DT990/32 or 250ohm and be done with it.


----------



## obazavil

If you want a headset, buy a PC360 and be happy.
   
  If you want great bass, buy a DT990
   
  or... just buy both


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> If you want a headset, buy a PC360 and be happy.
> 
> If you want great bass, buy a DT990
> 
> or... just buy both




Oh my buddy. Don't ever change your setup. XD


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DT990 because midrange is still clear and audible. Big bass will always equal recessed midrange or rolled off treble. Anyone who thinks having bass emphasis without trade offs is delusional. The DT990 will work for his purposes.
> 
> Also its the DT880 with rear positional cue problems, not the DT990.


 

 I think everyone gets it by now, overblown bass and sharp treble drowns out midrange, yes. But it's still a recessed midrange regardless. Yes if you raise everything it balances out. 
   
*I *would much rather have bass neutral or slightly above with a realistic, liquid midrange and non-shrill highs for gaming. It seems what a lot of people here want for gaming, much like newbies coming here seeking basshead cans, is giant bass because apparently that is the key to immersion. Much like for music, big bass does not constitute immersion. A bass neutral/slighty above headphone will give satisfying and realistic bangs and explosions, not crazy overblown ones that drown everything out. I have to question how long some of these people have been gaming.
   
  As for these people who "were once praising the DT990", hello there. It was very easy for me to praise the satisfying giant bass and "energetic" treble just like anyone else here, until the magic moment when I heard games/music how they were supposed to sound 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  As for the mids being audible and clear, just not the focus: Having used the DT990 for the entire MW2 campaign, I most certainly came across instances where gunfire, voices, and the like were completely drowned out by ridiculous explosions and very loud music. 
   
   
   But that's just my opinion. I'm just trying to help out the people who remind me of myself at the beginning of this "quest". Maybe they will come to the same realization. But for now, enjoy, and again, just my opinion.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm so fed up with Head-fi mentality. I've since sold all my mains, and now I'm more than happy with just the KSC75, PC360, and the soon to come KSC35 for all my audio needs. Team Less Is MORE. I know there is better out there, but since I'm now focusing on ENJOYING my sound, instead of enjoying the equipment, I found that one doesn't need to spend much of anything to find auditory bliss. I think once my funds stabilize later on, I'm gonna get one pair of full sized comfy open cans, and that's it. Nothing past a few hundred dollars either. I may just get the DT990/32 or 250ohm and be done with it.


 


  There are some people that really pass a bad image, and show no respect towards others, then get surprised people respond in kind.
   
  As I keep on changing gear, I often use the older stuff as to both savour its characteristics, and to better understand differences, which doesn't make me like it any less.
   
  But don't waste too much of your time with attitudes like that, they're just not worth it


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm so fed up with Head-fi mentality. I've since sold all my mains, and now I'm more than happy with just the KSC75, PC360, and the soon to come KSC35 for all my audio needs. Team Less Is MORE. I know there is better out there *but since I'm now focusing on ENJOYING my sound, instead of enjoying the equipment,* I found that one doesn't need to spend much of anything to find auditory bliss. I think once my funds stabilize later on, I'm gonna get one pair of full sized comfy open cans, and that's it. Nothing past a few hundred dollars either. I may just get the DT990/32 or 250ohm and be done with it.


 

 Funny, I'm loving music more than I ever have, and I know several great people here who are in the same position and have spent as much or more than I have. I can still slip on my D2000s and enjoy music greatly too, but I find I enjoy it even more with better cans. It wasn't long ago you were praising the D7000, the HE-4 etc. So you can't spend big money on cans anymore and now you're happy with what you have, that's great. But don't assume anyone who spends money on headphones is reducing their enjoyment of music. I know what you're talking about, but it isn't nearly everyone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I praise them, and will keep praising them. I won't belittle them because I found something better. You're quick to dismiss a headphone as soon as you find something you like better. The D7000 and HE4 are my fave headphones. Period. They have their strengths and their weaknesses. But I wouldn't directly compare them to one another, because they have a very different sound from one another, so I couldn't say one if better than the other, because that comparison is unfair and ridiculous. If I wear the D7000 the whole day and put on the HE4, the He4 will sound way too treble heavy, and lacking in body. However if I wear the He4 all day and switch to the D7000, the D7000 will sound velied, muddy, and boomy as hell. Hence why comparing such contrasts wouldn't be fair to either headphone.

Likewise, comparing a bass heavy can to a midcentric can to me is just unfair. It's null and void. You can choose what kind of frequency curve you like, but it doesn't make the other curves inferior. Just DIFFERENT. Something you don't point out.

For immersion, the D7000 will win out in many instances over any neutral can I've ever heard. Likewise, when I'm playing competitively, a neutral can will always be favored over bass heavy cans. That's why I think two headphones of two different sound sigs are ideal. People can also just choose one very well balanced can that does everything well, but won't beat the best in the 'emphasized' headphones.

So for example for gaming:

Immersion: D7000, DT990
Competitive: AD700, K701, HD598
Balanced: DT880 (rear cue issues aside, slight mid recession), HE4 (slight mid recession), PC360

If this were for music purposes, I wouldn't for example pit the D7000 vs K701. There's just no way to compare them because they're too different. Only your own specific taste could say which you'd prefer. no way to say one is clearly better than the other.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I praise them, and will keep praising them. I won't belittle them because I found something better. You're quick to dismiss a headphone as soon as you find something you like better. The D7000 and HE4 are my fave headphones. Period. They have their strengths and their weaknesses. But I wouldn't directly compare them to one another, because they have a very different sound from one another, so I couldn't say one if better than the other, because that comparison is unfair and ridiculous. If I wear the D7000 the whole day and put on the HE4, the He4 will sound way too treble heavy, and lacking in body. However if I wear the He4 all day and switch to the D7000, the D7000 will sound velied, muddy, and boomy as hell. Hence why comparing such contrasts wouldn't be fair to either headphone.
> 
> Likewise, comparing a bass heavy can to a midcentric can to me is just unfair. It's null and void. You can choose what kind of frequency curve you like, but it doesn't make the other curves inferior. Just DIFFERENT. Something you don't point out.


 


  I don't belittle them, I just see the flaws I had never known about before. This is of course attributed to experiencing lots of high end cans. It just irks me when they're praised out the ass for things they're not even doing right. It's not like I'm going "Lol DT990, mids suck go get a LCD2". What I AM saying is that they have obvious flaws that for some reason people take to be so good for gaming. Why? When the DT990 was my favorite can, beating out my only other high-end experience he D7000, I still realized what was wrong with it in games. 
   
  As for comparing completely different cans, I realized weeks ago I won't be able to keep one can. There's one I can say I confidently prefer to every other can I have had, but when I hear a certain two or three others, I am reminded what they do so well that the first doesn't. I know what you mean, believe me. I'm not trying to compare the DT990 to a midcentric can. The DT990 does things no midcentric can will ever do. However, what the DT990 does for games is nowhere near as positive as some make it out to be IMO. If it were, it's not like I wouldn't have kept it.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So for example for gaming:
> 
> Immersion: D7000, DT990
> Competitive: AD700, K701, HD598
> ...


 


  I take a completely different approach to music, if you haven't noticed.I have never said the K701 is bad for music, for instance, even though I personally would never EVER keep it. For some styles of music I don't often listen to, the K701 can be one of the greatest things ever for quite a few people. 
   
  As for SP gaming, I've been a gamer since I was 3. There is no genre I do not play on a regular basis. I bounce from Lost Odyssey to Black Ops to NBA Street to Ratchet & Clank to Devil May Cry to Silent Hill to... you get the idea. As such, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to games. And what purpose for gaming sound in SP serve? Immersion. Big bass and recessed mids (where the real important stuff happens) can be pleasing to the inexperienced (I don't mean that in an insulting way at all) but in the end a balanced or near balanced presentation is just so much more immersive and emotional while being as satisfying, but not artificially so. 
   
  Competitve, no use getting into that, we all know what's best already. Soundstage, positioning, low bass, etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, YOUR opinion. You do realize that when people want bass for extra IMMERSION, subtle details won't be the most important thing, right? That means that yeah mids (where most subtle details are), won't be as clear. This is why they don't make the BEST at detail whoring. But for non-hardcore-eqsue gaming, there's nothing wrong with bass emphasis. These kind of U shaped headphones are called FUN for a reason.

If you wanna join a flagship cult, go to another forum where they spend thousands of dollars for gaming cans. However, we here are a little more realistic. For the price and immersion they add, the DT990 is a solid choice, IMHO. You don't need to spend $900+ to gain lots of immersion. Is it too flawed for you? Then enjoy your flagships. sadly, lots of us here aren't as fortunate as you. And what it does for games is add fun, soundstage, and some impressive room filling bass. Never said otherwise. Pick out a headphone in their price range that are open, comfy, immersive, and with that kind of well textured emphasized bass. I haven't heard the FA-011, but they seem to be the only other can that can do it in the price range. PLEASE correct me, and let me know what miracle can you've found that does what the DT990 does but better, since you clearly have the money to TRY THEM ALL and have the flagship experience.

I've been gaming since the Atari days, and have owned practically every system since. I'm quite a closet gamer geek. So yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about. C WHUT I DID THAR?


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, YOUR opinion. You do realize that when people want bass for extra IMMERSION, subtle details won't be the most important thing, right? That means that yeah mids (where most subtle details are), won't be as clear. This is why they don't make the BEST at detail whoring. But for non-hardcore-eqsue gaming, there's nothing wrong with bass emphasis. These kind of U shaped headphones are called FUN for a reason.
> 
> If you wanna join a flagship cult, go to another forum where they spend thousands of dollars for gaming cans. However, we here are a little more realistic. For the price and immersion they add, the DT990 is a solid choice, IMHO. You don't need to spend $900+ to gain lots of immersion. Is it too flawed for you? Then enjoy your flagships. sadly, lots of us here aren't as fortunate as you. And what it does for games is add fun, soundstage, and some impressive room filling bass. never said otherwise. Pick out a headphone in their price range that are open, comfy, immersive, and with that kind of well textured emphasized bass. i haven't heard the FA-011, but they seem to be the only other can that can do it in the price range. PLEASE correct me, and let me know what miracle can you've found that does what the DT990 does but better, since you clearly have the money to TRY THEM ALL and have the flagship experience.
> 
> I've been gaming since the Atari days. So yeah, I think I know what I'm talking about. C WHUT I DID THAR?


 
  Subtle details? Dialogue???
  
  And I love how people continue to assume balanced can't be fun. 
   
  I haven't even been comparing to anything over the DT990's price in the last few posts. There are better single and multiplayer cans at and below the price. Don't try to pin me on comparing it to flagships, I'm not.  
   
  Yes they do what you said. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is all the people who think they are better than everything else just because of the bass, as if that's all that matters in games. It irks me in the way Beats and Skullcandies do. 
   
  As for flagships that do what the DT990 does but better: Oh come on already. The only flagship I've heard that does artificially emphasized bass, sparkly highs, and recessed mids is the D7000. It's no coincidence you love it and I used to. Everything else is completely different, nobody at that price is looking for the kind of experience in the top tier level. You can get plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass there too with the HE500, HE-6, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc. Remember, you asked. 
   
  That's cool. What I'm hinting at is, unlike the "hardcore gamers" who got their start with the current gen and COD, I have experience. Interpret that as you will.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OMGZ TEH MIDZ R RECISED


 

 Pure win.
   
  Now if we could only get people to understand that "balance" is the root word of "balanced".  For one thing to go up, something else has to go down.
   

   
  Making the bass, mids, and treble all louder and more prominent at the same time is called "turning up the volume".  Pity almost no one seems to understand it...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

alghazanth said:


> You can get plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass there too with the HE500, HE-6, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc.>




Yes, because we all have the same tastes and think something like the HE-6 (known not to have that deep a bass impact) would compete with the D7000's movie theater sound. :rolleyes:

Again, null and void. They don't have anywhere near the same sound signature, open vs closed, completely doing what I said was stupid to begin with: Comparing two headphones with wildly different sound signatures.

What's wrong with a flagship that has a fun sound signature? Is there some unwritten word somewhere that states all flagships must have a similar sound curve? If so, I missed it. I didn't know you had trade secrets.


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I said plenty satisfying and not overemphasized bass. The HE-6, LCD2, HE500, T1, ED8, LCD2 etc have plenty satisfying but not overemphasized bass. The D7000 and DT990 have satisfying and overemphasized bass. Get it now?
   
  Again, you assume the other flagships are not fun because they don't have insane bass. How much experience do you have with them? The HE500 is more fun than the D7000 ever was and is only slightly above bass neutral. ED8 does what the D7000 does but much better.The LCD2 has amazing bass, perhaps even more quantity than the D7000 and certainly far better quality, except it isn't overblown and messy. 
   
  Stop thinking the only kind of "fun" can= artificial bass, sparkly highs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You seem to forget that we all have particular preferences. Even in the same price tiers, I've always preferred bass emphasis and sparkly highs, over more balanced headphones. Hell, when I paired up my D7000 to the Lyr, I didn't like it as much because the bass became better controlled, and the treble wasn't as sparkly. It was a minor but noticeable difference, that I didn't like. 

Stop assuming that because you now preferred a better balanced headphone that we all will. I've ahad a few balanced headphones and have always preffered bass and sparkly highs... every single time.

I don't NEED to experience flagships, because guess what? For the most part, a lot of us wouldn't EVER spend that kind of money,. let alone for GAMING purposes. I'm surprised you haven't bought the Beyer Gaming HEADZONE yet, since you seem to want the VERY BEST in gaming.

With the strict understanding that some of us live down on Earth, we have to deal with certain non-exorbitant price ranges. Again, please tell me which headphones can provide the kind of immersion the DT990 does at or lower their price range.

You're beginning to sound like some audio snob that thinks that because you've heard the some of best, you know what everyone should like. I've made it clear what strengths and weaknesses the headphones I've tested have, and it's up to the people who read to follow or disregard my advice based off their own preferences.

Go cram flagships down other people's throats. Perhaps the High-end forum. We're dealing with people with some strict budgets 99% of the time, which is why I didn't even wanna bring up the D7000 and even HE4 into this thread.

Since you're so enlightened now, perhaps you shouldn't even be using Dolby Headphone. It's artificial and adds a fake sense of space. :rolleyes:


----------



## Alghazanth

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You seem to forget that we all have particular preferences. Even in the same price tiers, I've always preferred bass emphasis and sparkly highs, over more balanced headphones. Hell, when I paired up my D7000 to the Lyr, I didn't like it as much because the bass became better controlled, and the treble wasn't as sparkly. It was a minor but noticeable difference, that I didn't like.
> 
> Stop assuming that because you now preferred a better balanced headphone that we all will. I've ahad a few balanced headphones and have always preffered bass and sparkly highs... every single time.
> 
> ...


 

 Are you freaking serious?! I hadn't even said anything about flagships compared to the DT990 UNTIL YOU ASKED. I told you that there are better options for both SP and MP at the same or lower price, and I told you why. You're butthurt as all hell and I'm done with you.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> Are you freaking serious?! I hadn't even said anything about flagships compared to the DT990 UNTIL YOU ASKED. I told you that there are better options for both SP and MP at the same or lower price, and I told you why. You're butthurt as all hell and I'm done with you.


 


  So, care to tell everyone what better options for SP and MP are those that cost the same or less than the DT990?


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> And who recommended you the HDJ-2000 for gaming?


 

 A friend of mine.


----------



## Grayle

Well now I feel like a homewrecker.
  
  Quote: 





newmacadress said:


> To the man who is going through the same thing everyone else here has gone through (Grayle)
> HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH, OW This hurts
> HAHA,HAHA,HAHAH,


 


  Damn you, good sir. Damn you to heeeeell.


  Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> See if you can find the Xonar Essence for $150 and put that extra $50 into your headphones and you can get the PRO2900. I just got off fallout NV and I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. The game is filled with ambient sounds that I'd been missing out on. I was just wandering about simply amazed at how great it sounded..... and then a car exploded. The bass just about knocked me out of my seat. The amazing thing about the PRO900/2900s are that they have amazing bass, but it stays out of the way of the other frequencies. Its the best of both worlds for immersion and positional audio.
> 
> I don't know about the AD2000, but I found the AD900 terrible for electronic music and not so good for metal. It fared well in rock. For the best gaming performance you really need an open can. Angled or displaced drivers are also a huge plus(Ultrasones/ Sennheiser 5xx series).
> 
> From my brief time trying the Senn 598 I can tell you it had a massive, airy soundstage and it fared well with electronica. It was too laid back for metal.


 

 Hmm, I'm pretty much destined to use Amazon.com because I live in Europe, and the Ultrasone PRO2900 costs $550. So a tad more than $350+$50.


  Quote: 





alghazanth said:


> DT990- I would not get this gaming or music because of the recessed midrange, but obviously people here don't care because of the bass. If bass is extremely important to you, this would be the ideal mix of it + soundstage, but if you're like me and have graduated from the "MUST HAVE GOBS OF BASS" mentality, you'd do better elsewhere. And for music only, the treble is indeed piercing.
> 
> D2000- They're great for gaming, but I stopped using them as soon as I heard the AD700. Soundstage is just too important for ALL gaming to use 99% of closed cans.
> 
> ...


 

 Isn't the Astro Mixamp Dolby Headphone function pretty standard though? And also crappy? And man, that doesn't help at all. You're telling me they're all terrible. =p
   
  I should probably just buy a pair of DT990s and call it a day. I'm not a basshead though, I don't think. Whatever bass my current Razer Barracuda turdphones have is plenty. And... I really don't know if that''s a lot or not. My speakers are the age-old Creative I-Trigue 3600s and the bass on the volume knob amp thing is set to 4 (out of ten) and that's pretty much perfect for music and such. So, a touch above bass neutral? And "piercing" is a word I really, really hate. I don't want anything to pierce anything here.
   
  Christ, I wish I could just go to a music store and test some of these headphones. That'd solve this whole mess relatively quickly. But apparently Belgium has decided to give music the finger because I can't find a single freaking store which a. sells decent headphones and b. lets you listen to any of them before buying.
   
  So let me rephrase: what's the best balanced headphone, leaning slightly towards bass, with great soundstage/directionality and comfort (I'll be wearing these suckers for hours)? Which I think is basically a toned down DT990? A bit less bass, no piercing anything. I think that'd work well with just about anything, right?
   
  Or you can continue the little flamewar, with a bit of luck it'll turn me off this headphone madness altogether. My wallet would be eternally grateful. ^^


----------



## NewMACAdress

I just had to say that i have experienced these major U shaped headphones and while i guess they are considered "fun," i think that maybe to a child or narrow minded people they would be ideal.  Bass that is bloomy and uncontrolled just gets old (maybe it's because i'm not a child anymore and my body can't put up to the abuse).Usually these headphones can mock having a soundstage but really it's just the bass recessed a little because of how bloomy it is and allows the headphone to have a squeezed in soundstage  and  peope make take as being a good soundstage but really it's not that great because you end up trying to much with out realizing it to get that seperation.  A good sound stage comes natural and is way more important than bass and by saying that i mean that it is more important when people are learning about headphones.  Yes some people may like more bass in their headphones but until they hear other headphones that recessed bass and a good natural soundstage then they will miss out on something that really is important.  
    Another point  i would like to point out is that yes, everyone prefers different sounds or hears different blahblahblah.  We've all heard this and understand it. Headphones plain and simply go further in depth than just lows, mids and highs or soundstage and imaging.  It's combinations of all of them.  
  You can have controlled bass that never extends past the mids but is still it's own sound(completely impossible without a good soundstage (generally open cans) 
    Has anyone ever heard the expression "don't out think your common sense"  I think that a lot of people do this when talking about headphones.  I have come to find that people find little nit picks about the sound of their headphones and that's fine but their are somethings that should just be apparent right off the bat.  I always burn my headphones in and then listen to see if it' bloomy bass.  If it is then i just don't want it but i can still make a few other observations to determine if it is a good sounding headphone.  Does the sound come natural and are their layers audible behind that bloomy bass.  If yes then that's a plus.  Obviously is their a lot of distortion,  what is the sound signature( like can it reproduce voices naturally or are they sparkly from a titanium driver or dull and weak from a cheap paper diaphram.) Is their good instrument seperation at high tempo's. 
  And the most important thing EVER is to make sure you eat your wheaties in the morning and to not shake it more than three times cause it's considered playing with yourself


----------



## NewMACAdress

BTW i was just rambling and i wanted to note that while No headphone can do one thing good without messing up another, their are cans that can do an excellent job with the most important things and then leave the nitpicking to personal preference.  Yes some people will buy a headphone and want all this bass but you have to be nieve to think that everyone stay on that path once they hear a decent headphone. What i am saying to maybe try and suggest a headphone that people can learn a lot about other than obvious sparkly highs because they're listening to a Titanium diaphramed driver.


----------



## NewMACAdress

Have their been any reports of members on this website community they call head-fi , eating another member?  Just seems like it would be an everyday occurance so i was curious.  Thanks


----------



## Eric_C

hellbringer: I don't see much discussion of the HDJ-2000 outside of DJ forums, although the DJ crowd do like it for their purposes. IMO however, DJ mixes don't require soundstaging--which should be a key factor for any gaming headphone. Did your friend recommend them for gaming? 
   
  NewMACAdress: you can edit an old post instead of making 3 posts in quick succession, you know.


----------



## NewMACAdress

Yep but it's fun lol and MLE's replies goes up.  I just like throwing people off, all part of the plan to try and keep people from to mad although i'm sure it just messes with their concentration and makes them just remember parts that made them mad lol instead of reading it all and trying to reason with me.  o well


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  What just happened was... sad, to give it a name.
   
  I never saw Alghazanth imposing his will or making rude calls. I was curious about his arguments, and about what his cans and his view for SP was. I do think MLE overreacted in his aggresive posts.
   
  But well... sad to see another fun thread spoiled for this kind of behaviour.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> What just happened was... sad, to give it a name.
> 
> ...


 


  Usually, threads that handle headphones that are considered to have a fun or colored signature, are usually thrashed by snobbery of the high horse of treble and neutrality, which is a shame. Everyone should just respect each other's preferences instead of doing mindless bashing. Seems like only imature or "narrow minded people" (quoting the nonsense by NewMACAdress, along with his nonsense of thinking that "decent" headphones can't have any resemblence of emphasized bass) do deliberately provoke such bickering.
   
  MLE was just making it clear that he prefers a colored signature rather than a neutral one, despite having listened to higher end headphones, and that opinion wasn't respected, as simple as that.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> hellbringer: I don't see much discussion of the HDJ-2000 outside of DJ forums, although the DJ crowd do like it for their purposes. IMO however, DJ mixes don't require soundstaging--which should be a key factor for any gaming headphone. Did your friend recommend them for gaming?


 

 He recommended them for gaming but he dosen't know much about Dolby Headphone.
  Should i instead buy the Denon-D2000?
  Is the D2000 any good for gaming?
  My soundcard is a xonar essence card, just that you know.
   
  EDIT: I've also taken a look at the Denon AH-A100, is it any better?
           And the QPAD QH-1339, is that any good with Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Narwayo

Colored signature, and what's the problem? Is or not the modern music colored compared to the old music of 1700? there were electric guitars or sub bass woofer in the middle ages? Even motorbikes are colored compared to horses. Theater performances are balanced compared to cinema movies with computer effects? The headphones market goes after music market, and as someone wants to enjoy "colored" music, needs "colored" headphones. A lot of videogames, movies, and music are made with "colored" audio, so "colored" phones are better. I personally enjoy a lot my beyerdynamic dt880 600 Ohm, but I have to admit that they are not the best phones for everything and lack when I need more bass. They are very, but very good, but not so "colored" as when I want to "color" my ears or my brain. The Bass with percussions is the base of rhythmics, and rhythmics are the soul of the enjoyment of at least the 70% of music...


----------



## Jae304

I use the D2k for gaming and personally think it is an excellent choice.
  
  Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> He recommended them for gaming but he dosen't now much about Dolby Headphone.
> Should i instead buy the Denon-D2000?
> Is the D2000 any good for gaming?
> My soundcard is a xonar essence card, just that you know.
> ...


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> I use the D2k for gaming and personally think it is an excellent choice.


 
   
  Ok, do they work good with Dolby Headphone and do you think it will work good with my soundcard?
  Is it also good for listening to music?
   
  What about the other headphones i wrote?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If they're anything like the D7000 in soundstage and positioning, the D2000 should work well. At the time I had purchased the DT770, I was considering the D2000. The only reason I didn't was because of my preference for velour pads.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If they're anything like the D7000 in soundstage and positioning, the D2000 should work well. At the time I had purchased the DT770, I was considering the D2000. The only reason I didn't was because of my preference for velour pads.


 


  Ok, but isnt the AH-A100 or AH-D5000 better?
  Have you tried the QPAD-QH1339?
   
  And will the D2000 work good with my soundcard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry haven't tried those headphones, but I believe they have smaller cups, which will undoubtedly reduce the soundstage.

The D2000 is pretty sensitive, so it should work well off practically anything you hook it up to. The D7000 sounds like a champ even if you run it off a super weak source. I assume the D2000 would too, though as always, amping always improves sound.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry haven't tried those headphones, but I believe they have smaller cups, which will undoubtedly reduce the soundstage.
> 
> The D2000 is pretty sensitive, so it should work well off practically anything you hook it up to. The D7000 sounds like a champ even if you run it off a super weak source. I assume the D2000 would too, though as always, amping always improves sound.


 

 But aren't the AH-A100 and AH-D5000 just cheaper versions of D7000?
   
  I actually really want the D7000, but the problem is the price.


----------



## Eric_C

hellbringer said:


> But aren't the AH-A100 and AH-D5000 just cheaper versions of D7000?



if you're assuming this because of model numbers and price, you'd better read up on threads that discuss the D2k vs D7k specifically. Model numbers don't always indicate "cheaper versions", e.g. Senn HD 600 and 650, Beyer DT 770, 880 and 990. 
Price also doesn't indicate a cheaper version of the same sound, e.g. Westone 4 is more neutral than Westone 2. 
So, research it. Don't limit yourself to this thread for answers--search. 

You seem to be forcing MLE to give you a definite recommendation for a headphone he hasn't heard yet. That's not fair. You also seem dead-set on the D2k because the D7k is beyond budget; what other headphones that ARE recommended for gaming with DH are WITHIN your budget?


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The D7000 isn't actually beyond my budget, the thing is that it costs to much for just gaming, but now i'm really thinking about maybe getting it.
  What do you guys think?
   
  EDIT: Has any body else tried the D5000 and does got something to say about it?
   
  EDIT 2: Just wondering, does Dolby Headphone emulate 7.1 surround?


----------



## NewMACAdress

I WIN!


----------



## Bummrounde

Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> EDIT 2: Just wondering, does Dolby Headphone emulate 7.1 surround?


 


 Direct from Dolby's page about their tech: "In addition, in conjunction with content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic IIz, Dolby Headphone can deliver a convincing 7.1-channel surround experience."
   
  Astro mentions 5.1 and 7.1 on their page for the Mixamp 5.8.  Turtle Beach also has 5.1 and 7.1 listed on their page for the Ear Force DSS.  Don't know enough about DH capable receivers to answer for them but most likely they are the same.
   
  http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bummrounde said:


> Direct from Dolby's page about their tech: "In addition, in conjunction with content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic IIz, Dolby Headphone can deliver a convincing 7.1-channel surround experience."
> 
> Astro mentions 5.1 and 7.1 on their page for the Mixamp 5.8.  Turtle Beach also has 5.1 and 7.1 listed on their page for the Ear Force DSS.  Don't know enough about DH capable receivers to answer for them but most likely they are the same.
> 
> http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html




To put it as a 5.1 or 7.1 would downplay what DH. There are no speaker cues. It's a full 360 degree sound field, it may as well be labeled as 20.1 surround or something. I think they label it as 5.1 or 7.1 just so people can expect something akin to a speaker setup. In any case, 7.1 is false advertisement at it's core, as optical digital cables only carry DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 (though those gaming amps don't decode DTS). For example, if you play a Blu-Ray on the PS3 that does DTS-HD (which then downconverts to regular DTS for the optical digital connection), the signal will downconvert to 2.1 stereo, so you'll be getting a basic stereo signal sent to the Mixamp, which doesn't even come close to a Pro Logic II signal, let alone a Dolby Digital signal.

From actual experience, the Mixamp sounds better with a regular DVD than a Blu-Ray, because DVDs carry a real Dolby Digital signal which the Mixamp converts to DH properly, giving you the real virtual surround, as opposed to virtualizing a basic stereo signal to virtual surround (a song playing on the Mixamp with the DH button on...sounds worse than a song playing from a real Dolby Digital signal from like a movie).


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> What just happened was... sad, to give it a name.
> 
> ...


 

 Agree with this. MLE contributes a lot to this forum but has a tendency to get too defensive. It's fine to express your own preferences and views, but it's obnoxious to do it in a tone or manner that attacks those who disagree.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





olor1n said:


> Agree with this. MLE contributes a lot to this forum but has a tendency to get too defensive. It's fine to express your own preferences and views, *but it's obnoxious to do it in a tone or manner that attacks those who disagree.*


 

  
  That goes both ways.


----------



## olor1n

nvm


----------



## Bummrounde

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My takeaway from Dolby's page is that either 5.1 or 7.1 sources are usable by DH products.


----------



## hellbringer

Will the D7000 work good with the essence sound card?
  Will it be able to run 7.1 or whatever it is?
   
  EDIT: Just wondering something about the D7000, if i connect my PS3 to my new Samsung screen (the new LED 950D) and then connect the D7000 to the screen, will the headphones function properly or is the PS3 to weak?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> Will the D7000 work good with the essence sound card?
> Will it be able to run 7.1 or whatever it is?
> 
> EDIT: Just wondering something about the D7000, if i connect my PS3 to my new Samsung screen (the new LED 950D) and then connect the D7000 to the screen, will the headphones function properly or is the PS3 to weak?


 

 According to what MLE has said about having the D7000 sound fine out of any source, then yes the D7000 will sound fine out of your Essence ST. As for your other question, the TV will be amping your headphones and not your PS3. And as far as I'm concerned, I think the headphone outs on samsung tvs or any tv for that matter generally suck.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





calpis said:


> According to what MLE has said about having the D7000 sound fine out of any source, then yes the D7000 will sound fine out of your Essence ST. As for your other question, the TV will be amping your headphones and not your PS3. And as far as I'm concerned, I think the headphone outs on samsung tvs or any tv for that matter generally suck.


 

 Is there something i can buy or do so it sounds better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, a DAC and AMP. Something as simple and cheap like the Fiio E7/E9 will improve the D7000. Better DACs and AMPs will improve them even more, though YMMV. If getting an amp, I recommend a solid state amp.

On to other news, I received my KSC35. 

Good news: they sound great, are lighter than the already light KSC75, almost just as comfy (75's clips as soft, while the 35s are pure plastic), more bass, black color makes it usable in public vs the dorky looking 75s, IMHO.

Bad news: Costs 3x the price of the KSC75, cheaper build, treble is rolled off (loses the sparkle of the KSC75), can only be easily bought on the Koss website, so you pay full price. SQ is literally on par with the KSC75, the trade off being just more bass on the KSC35 vs more treble on the KSC75.

All in all, if the price of the KSC35 was as low as the KSC75, I'd say choose whichever suits your tastes; more bass, or more treble. As it stands, the 35s pretty much lose to the KSC75s due to price/performance.

Which do I prefer? I love both, but the KSC75 is still better for me due to that treble, as well as the brighter sound signature that just makes them sound clearer. The KSC75s bass was satisfying for most uses for me. The KSC35 will become my bassy music, movie, and immersive gaming can (haven't tested them for gaming or movies so this may not happen), while the 75s will be my anime, TV show, non-bass heavy music can. I certainly do have a place for both, but I don't think the 35s should cost more than the 75s, though the 75s I think are underpriced, lol. I think both should be $30, though I'm certainly not complaining about the low price on the 75s.

Yes, they're fresh out the box, but I'm not expecting miracles after some heavy hours of use. They sound just as I expected to sound, which is a warmer, bassier 75 sound.

Also don't let this impression fool you, the KSC35 sounds quite clear. In fact, the vocals are QUITE rich, if a little bit more forward than the KSC75. Its a phenomenal headphone. If this is how the Porta Pro sounds like, I now know why its so popular.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, a DAC and AMP. Something as simple and cheap like the Fiio E7/E9 will improve the D7000. Better DACs and AMPs will improve them even more, though YMMV. If getting an amp, I recommend a solid state amp.


 

 Could you please recommend me some amps?
  I ain't really good at this.


----------



## Eric_C

He just did. The E7 is a DAC/amp that plugs into the E9, which is a pure amp. When combined the E7's DAC is used with the E9's more powerful amp stage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG YES, the KSC75 clips fit on the KSC35. Having used the KSC35 all day, the plastic clips REALLY start to bother my ears. They're somewhat sharp and dig in where they rest on your ear. I didn't wanna break the clips in case they didn't detach, but luckily they do, just a bit harder to take off than the KSC75. 

Now with the soft KSC75 clips, the KSC35 has become more awesome. 

More A/B testing, I have to say that I now slightly favor the KSC35. The sound is fuller than the KSC75 which sounds a bit thin in comparison. It's still a tough sell because they're only SLIGHTLY better than the KSC75 for me. <$15 KSC75 vs >$45 KSC35... with only a SLIGHT SQ boost? I do find it worth it due to the fuller bass and vocals, but I do miss the bright sound signature of the KSC75.

Another pro of the KSC35 is that they don't distort during heavy bass like the KSC75 sometimes does.


----------



## hellbringer

So i wont need to use anything else besides my soundcard to get 7.1 or higher?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If your soundcard is Dolby Headphone enabled, then yes, its all you need for 7.1 VIRTUAL surround, as long as the games you play have a Dolby Digital option.


----------



## Grayle

I thought your games only had to have 5.1/7.1 surround options, or is that synonymous with Dolby Digital?
   
  Anyway, I'm now thinking of just going PC360 or HD598. They're the cheapest of my options, and I'm pretty sure that whatever I buy will blow me away after years of onboard sound and crappy cans. I'll try and get my hands on the HD598, somehow, before purcashing so I can test them and see what the fuss is about the supposedly weak bass. I'd go for the PC360 (which are just HD595s right?) but I've heard the HD598 has more bass and is in general a small but noticeable upgrade. Fact or Fiction?
   
  I know they won't, or shouldn't, need amping out of a Xonar Essence ST but I really like to have a volume knob somewhere on my desk for on the fly volume adjusting so I'm looking into amps a bit. Apparently the Schiit Asgard has great synergy with the HD598, but it's a bit pricey (for me) at $250. Unless they're a great investment and would do well with other, better cans in the future (I have no illusions about the fact you people will ruin me before long)? Does the Mixamp sound good with the two cans I mentioned? I think I heard it mention it has Bass Boost? Any good? Or is the FiiO E9 a better choice at that pricepoint? Note: I'd just buy the E9, I have no need for a portable dac/amp. Also, does the E9 come with a cover of sorts to hide the E7 port? Any other suggestions?
   
   
  Speaking of DACs, is it possible/worth it to go:
   
  Xonar Essence ST -> S/PDIF -> DAC -> AMP -> Cans and still retain Dolby Headphone? Or is the Dolby Headphone magic only added during the digital to analog conversion process (I'm guessing no, but I'm curious)?


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If your soundcard is Dolby Headphone enabled, then yes, its all you need for 7.1 VIRTUAL surround, as long as the games you play have a Dolby Digital option.


 


  But my old Logitech G35 wouls play all games with surround without the game having dolby headphone or digital support.


----------



## Leiker535

Quote: 





hellbringer said:


> But my old Logitech G35 wouls play all games with surround without the game having dolby headphone or digital support.


 
  It isnt the Dolby Headphone driver, if the game have the Dolby Digital codec, the 7.1 surround will work just fine. If you have an 7.1 HT, you will need the dolby digital codec, or the DTS, so 90% have this codec.


----------



## hellbringer

Ok, i'm a little confused here, do i need Dolby Digital IIz or Dolby headphone to be able to get 7.1 or better?
   
  And is there anyway i can get Dolby Headphone or something like it when i connect the D7000 to my PS3?


----------



## NewMACAdress

If you want simulated surround sound in your headphones you need DH (dolby headphone.)  This is the ONLY thing that will give you surround sound.  Only some devices have this. Astro mixamp, turtle beach dds, some sound cards and some receivers for home theaters. 
  You are confusing me wondering about 7.1  Anything DH can handle up to 7.1 but the xbox and the ps3 don't support 7.1 only 5.1.  It's not hard to figure out,
   
   
  Console/optical cable/mixamp or dds/ headphone.  And you're done.  You have the ultimate gaming setup.
  The ps3 is the same as xbox you connect via optical cable.


----------



## MohawkUS

I wouldn't call dolby 5.1 or 7.1 or anything, its stereo, but with better positioning. Sound can come from any direction, not just 5 set spots. It works on every game I own too, including Minecraft, so I don't think games specificly need support for it. It can give better instrument seperation in music, but you take a hit in the sound quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't call it anything near stereo. The only time it sounds like an expanded stereo is if you don't have a Dolby Digital signal for these devices to process to Dolby Headphone. You NEED to make sure you're getting a DD signal, otherwise, you won't hear it properly. Games like Minecraft are just getting expanded stereo.

DH sounds like MORE than 7.1. There are absolutely no speaker cues. The sound is coming from all around you.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't call it anything near stereo. The only time it sounds like an expanded stereo is if you don't have a Dolby Digital signal for these devices to process to Dolby Headphone. You NEED to make sure you're getting a DD signal, otherwise, you won't hear it properly. Games like Minecraft are just getting expanded stereo.
> 
> DH sounds like MORE than 7.1. There are absolutely no speaker cues. The sound is coming from all around you.


 
   
  Do i need an amp for the Dolby Digital or does my soundcard have it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look into your soundcard. That's what interwebz is for. 

In any case, I wouldn't know, as I don't game on PC.


----------



## Ra97oR

Essence ST/X does support dolby headphones with DH-1/DH-2/DH-3 mode.


----------



## hellbringer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Look into your soundcard. That's what interwebz is for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It got dolby digital live, is that it?


----------



## NewMACAdress

You do realize that in the amount of time you are asking people to waste their time you could just.....


----------



## NewMACAdress

_*GOOGLE*_


----------



## Headfonenut123

Just wondering MLE when you had the dt 990 and e9 did you use the 3.5mm jack on the e9 or the 6.3mm?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

6.3mm for all my headphones. The 3.5mm jack sounds inferior with every headphone I've used.


----------



## NewMACAdress

Just bought a limited edition MW3 Stax-SR009 to use for gaming with the new $2k microphone that can pick up and be very DETAILED like the headphone for up to 2000 yards.  Can't wait.  Noobs eat my shorts.


----------



## CaveManta

Wow..I never really appreciated soundstage in headphones until I received a pair of ATH-M50s and compared them to my AD700s using my receiver's surround sound virtualization(Probably Dolby Headphone o.O.)
  Using the M50s in surround mode sounds pretty much like regular stereo, where everything has not much distance and sound effects beside me are much more audible than sounds in front/behind.
  But when I switch to my AD700s, everything becomes completely different..in Red Faction: Guerrilla, I can hear every colonists' footsteps as they walk by, and vehicles in the distance... It just blows me away.
   
  It's quite funny, because in some games like Quake 4, you can tell that a number of sound effects aren't really coming from where they're supposed to be. An enemy will be teleporting in nearby, but the sound instead is coming from right where you are.
  Bah, I'm rambling.
  I'm just so amazed by the AD700s with surround virtualization.
   
  So with that, I want to thank you, Mad Lust Envy; For this fantastic guide you wrote. I actually find it to be quite professional.
   
   
  And also, I just want to address something weird I've noticed with my surround emulator. It seems that nearby sounds are much more quiet than anything further away. Which makes it so that whenever I'm reloading a gun, it's very faint. Is it the same for you guys?


----------



## NewMACAdress

You my friend are missing out.  DH and surround sound on a receiver are two TOTALLY different things.  In fact i find surround sound to be quite confusing and makes no sense to me. 
  DH on the other hand is an amazing experience. The easiest way to explain it would be to tell you what it's not.  
  What it's not: When listening to a regular headphone, lets say without any soundstage(m50,) you have a simple headphone.  For the most part you can actually sense the presence of the driver next to your ear. That can be alright for music ( i dislike it), but for games and movies it's a no no.
  What it is.  Now imagine that you're part of a movie or a video game and you hear someone reloading a gun in a room next to you.  Now because of the effortlessness involved in hearing something in real life and knowing where it came from degree and depth wise you laugh and shoot them through the wall.  HAHA, they're dead.
  That is dolby headphone.  Mixed with the right headphone, you become embodied in the game and forget you're even wearing headphones.


----------



## CaveManta

I need to get a Mixamp one of these days o.o.. I can only wonder what the true potential of Dolby Headphone can sound like when matched with the AD700.
  And I wonder if they have/are ever going to make a game where you can't hear things through walls, haha. It reminds me of Quake, where you can hear enemies across entire maps =P.
   
  The thing I find most interesting about emulated surround sound is how it allows you to hear the environment around you; Like sounds echoing off of walls and such..Like you're really in the game.


----------



## Jae304

Blanket statements like that are the reason there is so much misinformation out there.  In the case of my receiver, you couldn't be more wrong -- and I have an Astro mixamp to compare to so I'm not just talking out of my ass either.  My receiver is a 10+ year old Sony with what Sony calls "headphone theater" and the sound quality *blows away* what I get from my mixamp  On top of that, I can eq the sound to fit my needs/desires and I can adjust the soundstage as well.  Don't get me wrong, the mixamp is a great product and I'm not knocking it in any way but it just can't compete -- it is simply outclassed.  Since I began gaming with my receiver as the source, my mixamp has been relegated to "playing with friends duty" for it's voice chat abilities.  Any other time, the receiver is the obvious choice. 
   
  Now, to be completely fair, this is not really an apples to apples comparison.  My receiver cost me FAR more than the mixamp so imo it's not really fair to expect the mixamp to be able to compete. 
  
  Quote: 





newmacadress said:


> *You my friend are missing out.  DH and surround sound on a receiver are two TOTALLY different things*.  In fact i find surround sound to be quite confusing and makes no sense to me.
> DH on the other hand is an amazing experience. The easiest way to explain it would be to tell you what it's not.
> What it's not: When listening to a regular headphone, lets say without any soundstage(m50,) you have a simple headphone.  For the most part you can actually sense the presence of the driver next to your ear. That can be alright for music ( i dislike it), but for games and movies it's a no no.
> What it is.  Now imagine that you're part of a movie or a video game and you hear someone reloading a gun in a room next to you.  Now because of the effortlessness involved in hearing something in real life and knowing where it came from degree and depth wise you laugh and shoot them through the wall.  HAHA, they're dead.
> That is dolby headphone.  Mixed with the right headphone, you become embodied in the game and forget you're even wearing headphones.


----------



## CaveManta

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> ....My receiver is a 10+ year old Sony with what Sony calls "headphone theater" and the sound quality *blows away* what I get from my mixamp  On top of that, I can eq the sound to fit my needs/desires and I can adjust the soundstage as well....


 

 I am using a Sony receiver as well, with "headphone theater." But mine doesn't have the soundstage adjustment. That actually sounds really useful.
  Hmm..I wonder the output impedance is from a home theater receiver. Probably more powerul than a PC's integrated sound-chip?


----------



## NewMACAdress

My receiver has Headphone surround sound and while it opens the sound up and gives positional ques it makes everything sound like it's coming from the same depth.  I have a Denon avr-391. Either way normal surround mode for headphones is no where near as good as DH.  I never said anything about "headphone theater"


----------



## NewMACAdress

Your receiver probably does decode Dolby but surround sound mode  is a moc dolby  that does not use the dolby decoder.  If it did it would be called Dolby Headphone.  Maybe their are different names for Dolby Headphone but i would think that to be Copyright infringement considering it's decoding Dolby.  Ask anyone to turn  surround sound mode on their receiver and then back to Dolby Prologic and they will tell you that SSM is worthless.


----------



## maverickronin

HRTFs are not one size fits all product.  Some people will legitimately have better results with one over the other due to differences in anatomy.  There's no need to start a holy war over which one works best for you.


----------



## OwneddMuch

I currently own a pair of GameCom 367s that I use with my PC and Ps3 with a RCA to 3.5mm adapter. I'm thinking about upgrading my headset soon, nothing expensive, maybe a max budget of around $70 (this is later though). As for one, I'm considering buying a Turtle Beach DSS to upgrade my directional audio in console fps games. I have a few questions:

Will the DSS improve anything on my headset?
Is it worth buying another cheapish headset ($70 max, mainly gaming) to use with a DSS?

Cheers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The KSC75 is great for the price. However, I would upgrade to something better.


----------



## OwneddMuch

Thanks for the reply - guess I'll avoid them (I edited my post JUST before you replied, as in Aus, I can't find them for less than $45 - kills the entire bang for buck thing). If they haven't got good soundstage, then I'll definitely leave them alone.
   
  Any recommendations for a good gaming headset in your experience, or is this not the thread for that question?
  In your opinion, would it be better to get a DSS now (MixAmp is over budget), or a good pair of really headphones with stereo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DSS without a doubt. It will improve all headphones for gaming.

Good headsets are gonna cost a LOT. I would avoid budget headsets like the plague.

AX720 is the bare minimum, and that's because its a headset that comes with a DH amp like the Mixamp.

PC360 is my weapon of choice, but it is expensive.

MMX300 is another popular and expensive choice.

I didn't like the A40s, but its loved by many. YMMV.

I'd start off with the AX720 just because you get a headset plus DH amp all for the price of the Mixamp.


----------



## OwneddMuch

Looks like the AX720's are my best bet. Now I have to wait for a sale or something, it's a bit too expensive for me at the moment. Anything more expensive is WAY to over my head. AX720s now, maybe later on I'll make a massive upgrade.
   
  I've never really paid attention to audio in video games, never been a big concern for me. AX720's will do me for a long while I would think, whilst for you they may be average - to me, amazing (at least I hope they are).
   
  Thanks for all your help, really appreciated.
   
  EDIT-
 Reading more into the AX720s, they fit my needs perfectly - even better than I thought they were.
  One question though... if I were to upgrade my headset, and keep the mixamp - how would I connect another headset to it? Do I connect it through the puck, which connects to the amp like normal? Do the volume controls on the puck work the same if I do it like that, or are they rendered useless?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mentioned it a few times before, but the AX720's inline control can be separated to expose two 3.5mm inputs, one for audio, one for a mic, so you can connect any headphone/headset and mic.

They may be average compared to everything else, but they are GREAT starters, that may be all that you need. My roomie owns them, and I constantly test them out and still enjoy them.


----------



## OwneddMuch

That's probably where I read it then. 
   
  Thanks again.


----------



## matryx

There's a sale going on for Canada's Day on the Sennheiser HD558. It's going for $125. What you do you guys think of it? I heard good things about the HD555 but not really sure about the HD558
   
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/sennheiser-sennheiser-audiophile-headphones-hd-558-hd-558/10169245.aspx?path=f9ea1c250b76b178e1d303f10e7df538en02


----------



## NewMACAdress

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/monster-monster-beats-pro-special-edition-detox-professional-headphones-black-mh-bts-p-oe-dtx-un/10168411.aspx?path=424e51ec925a944e61dbc48309d3a605en02
  I think these look sexy but OMG!!!  Look at the price lol.  Tooooo funny


----------



## nakaroxx

I have been gaming with my monster turbine pro golds. they are really awesome with gaming. not so good as my old beyers dt990pro but still really good, they have like 90% precision imaging and a medium size soundstage and works great through my asus xonar essence stx even without dolby headphone turned on, people should really try it


----------



## rabidgamer

Finally giving up on the Turtle Beach DSS b/c for chatting etc it just isn't good enough, was using the kinect mic to speak and the voice played alongside the ingame audio and when things get even remotely loud I can't hear a thing lol, finally going to get a mixamp. I was going to get the 5.8 for the bass boost but there's a chance I'll get the standard mixamp for like £60 cheaper so that's what I'm going for atm... I use the AD700's so the bass boost on the DSS was really helpful for single player gaming etc but I also have the Creative Aurvana Live headphones for single player gaming and that so I'm good.
   
  What I need now though is a good clip on mic that I can purchase in the UK? The popular ones in here seem to be US only or very hard to find over here... any help would be appreciated.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rabidgamer said:


> What I need now though is a good clip on mic that I can purchase in the UK? The popular ones in here seem to be US only or very hard to find over here... any help would be appreciated.


 


  Check the first post for the dealextreme mic. Is pretty good and cost US $3


----------



## rabidgamer

I couldn't find it in a UK store online so that mic isn't an option lol.
   
  I got this anyway, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Compact-Microphone-Google-Windows-Internet/dp/B001MNX9WK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1309789629&sr=8-2
   
  cheap and got great reviews... now all I need is the mixamp.


----------



## rayuma

I think deal extreme ships worldwide. I purchased the mic and it works perfect.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *rabidgamer* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I got this anyway, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Compact-Microphone-Google-Windows-Internet/dp/B001MNX9WK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1309789629&sr=8-2


 


  That one looks similar to the dealextreme one... I think will be good enough for you


----------



## grimzz R

You should review the Razer Carcharias .......
   
  People on the MLG forums claim it to be on a simular level to the PC360 but with added bass which is amazing considering they are only $64.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have heard different. Boomy, bass bloat smears the rest of the sound, lacking soundstage and positioning. I don't doubt why it's so cheap. Just FWIH. From the headsets I have owned, it's pretty much left me convinced that anything below $100 is gonna be garbage, headSET-wise. 

Of course, a headset with a lot of bass isn't something I'd almost EVER recommend. Only time I want deep bass is when I'm not on a headset.


----------



## afrocod

Ok, I just want to make a check list here. I'm going to get the DT 990's 600ohm ( From what I gather, if you've got the power in your amp, this is the way to go), Fiio E9 and the Astro Mixamp. I couldn't care less about voice chat. It's all about the immersion and the quality of sound. Do I still need all of the above?
  Also, is there any extra fiddly bits that don't come with these that I would need to pick up, such as optical cables and things like that?
   
  Thanks in advance for the help. I hope what I've said makes sense because I haven't a clue...


----------



## jay2o

Quote: 





afrocod said:


> Ok, I just want to make a check list here. I'm going to get the DT 990's 600ohm ( From what I gather, if you've got the power in your amp, this is the way to go), Fiio E9 and the Astro Mixamp. I couldn't care less about voice chat. It's all about the immersion and the quality of sound. Do I still need all of the above?
> Also, is there any extra fiddly bits that don't come with these that I would need to pick up, such as optical cables and things like that?
> 
> Thanks in advance for the help. I hope what I've said makes sense because I haven't a clue...


 

 will it work for the 5.8 wireless amp


----------



## afrocod

Quote: 





jay2o said:


> will it work for the 5.8 wireless amp


 

 I'm hoping MLE is gonna come online soon and break us off some wisdom.... I really haven't a clue mate...


----------



## rayuma

E9 + DT990 + Mixamp 5.8 will work fine


----------



## jay2o

nice one thanks


----------



## VuongPham117

I have a dumb question out there for anyone who's willing to answer it, I just need to know if I can improve SQ by improving my set up
   
  right now I am gaming through my
   
  PS3 with the HDMI hooked up to my Samsung TV
  I have the TV's 3.5mm jack plugged into my E9's line in
  and my HD-600 is connected
   
  Am I doing this right?


----------



## obazavil

Hmm...
   
  You should connect always PS3 -> optical cable -> E9 -> HD-600
   
  But seems you are not using mixamp, so maybe it doesn't matter at all


----------



## VuongPham117

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm...
> 
> You should connect always PS3 -> optical cable -> E9 -> HD-600
> 
> But seems you are not using mixamp, so maybe it doesn't matter at all


 

 The E9 doesn't have an optical cable input


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





vuongpham117 said:


> The E9 doesn't have an optical cable input


 

 LOL
   
  Yeah... you are right (I have my E9 here... too used to playing PS3 with mixamp)
   
  Then you are cool with that config I guess...
   
  But, you MUST get a MixAmp in a future


----------



## afrocod

@obazavil When you use your DT 990's, in what order is the setup like dt990-e9-mixamp-console. If that's right, what kind of cable connects the e9 to the mixamp (probably sounds like a silly question but I just don't know). Any help would be greatly appreciated...


----------



## rayuma

A 3.5mm male to male cable runs from the E9 to the mixamp. Your headphone connects to the E9.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rayuma said:


> A 3.5mm male to male cable runs from the E9 to the mixamp. Your headphone connects to the E9.


 


  Indeed. My setup is:
   
   
  PS3 -> toslink (optical cable) -> MixAmp -> 3.5mm male to male -> E9 -> DT990


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





vuongpham117 said:


> I have a dumb question out there for anyone who's willing to answer it, I just need to know if I can improve SQ by improving my set up
> 
> right now I am gaming through my
> 
> ...


 

 You're better off hooking the PS3 to the E9 directly with the RCA cables that came with the PS3. Running the HDMI->TV->E9 will mean that you're double amping and you're not likely getting a line level out. Make sure to adjust your audio settings in the PS3 accordingly.
   
  Also, the 3.5mm jacks on TVs are meant for headphones and not line-outs. This means that the most TVs will have that jack EQ'd for headphones and what you really want is a signal that isn't being EQ'd. If your TV does have RCA line-outs then use them, my Samsung Series5 has them and I use that for watching regular tv while using my old school receiver hooked up to some bookshelf speakers.


----------



## afrocod

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Indeed. My setup is:
> 
> 
> PS3 -> toslink (optical cable) -> MixAmp -> 3.5mm male to male -> E9 -> DT990


 
  Thank you sir and Ruyuma.


----------



## Nallows

Is there a difference in directional cues/soundstage between each of the DT880 versions (32, 250, 600ohms) in first person shooters?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

From experience of my friends on another forum, all 3 DT880s lack rear positioning in FPS. This comes from people who have owned different ohm versions at the same time. I've only owned the 32ohm, and a friend who owned the 32ohm and 600ohm said they sounded similar in most aspects, including not being the greatest at rear positioning. 250ohm/600ohm owner said the same. If FPS is a priority, I'd look elsewhere. Otherwise, the DT880 is probably the best headphone for overall use and balance with some slight emphasis on bass and treble.


----------



## tml09

I sold my Mixamp about 2 years ago, along with my AD700s, so I all I've been using is my crappy monitor's built in speakers. Sadly, my monitor died of old age, and it was time for a new gaming setup.  After a long time away from headphone gaming, I finally bought a Mixamp and a pair of KSC75s (just to tide me over till my HD598s arrive from J&R).
   
  They're definitely the best bang for your buck gaming headphones in the market (the KSC75s). When I got them, I just stared at them for a while, wondering how to put them on my ears. The sound stage is pretty good, and front/ back are differentiated well enough. 
   
  That said, I can't wait to hear what the HD598 sounds. Along with the Dell U2311h I ordered, it'll be gaming nirvana. Yet even after spending all this money I'm still thinking about what my next headphone purchase is going to be (probably something closed; dt770? a900s? idk). It kind of makes me miss having a tiny monitor and a fat wallet lol


----------



## Nallows

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> From experience of my friends on another forum, all 3 DT880s lack rear positioning in FPS. This comes from people who have owned different ohm versions at the same time. I've only owned the 32ohm, and a friend who owned the 32ohm and 600ohm said they sounded similar in most aspects, including not being the greatest at rear positioning. 250ohm/600ohm owner said the same. If FPS is a priority, I'd look elsewhere. Otherwise, the DT880 is probably the best headphone for overall use and balance with some slight emphasis on bass and treble.


 


  I'm hoping that the stx control panel allows me to adjust the positioning to correct it.  However, in your original post you said the DT 770 pro 80 has the best directional sound out of any headset you tried.  Does this mean you can tell where a shot is coming from, but not whether it was high or far away?  Then for something like the k701 or ad700 you can tell both direction and depth/height?  Let's say someone is in a building on the 2nd floor.  Would it be easier to know they are on the 2nd floor with the k701/ad700 instead of the DT 770 pro 80?


----------



## afrocod

My DT990/600 arrived today. Haven't got the amp yet but I think they sound great. I guess I'm in for a treat tomorrow when the e9 comes.
   
  Anyway have to take the time to thank MLE, if it wasn't for him taking the time and using his money to buy all that equipment and review it, where would we be? With a pair of ******** AXpro's that's were (can't believe I paid €170 for those... pawning them off to some poor unfortunate soul tomorrow...).
   
  Anyway thanks a million man...


----------



## Iqbal

nice review!


----------



## Iqbal

are the HD 600 any good for gaming?


----------



## grimzz R

no


----------



## 129207

yes


----------



## shamrock134

+1 on the 'No' to HD600 for gaming


----------



## 129207

-2 on the +1 on the 'No' to HD600 for gaming.


----------



## shamrock134

What makes them good for gaming in your opinion? Do you mean single-player or competitive online play?
   
  I found them to perform poorly with Dolby Headphone and leave me with a sense of "What where are the enemies coming from?".
   
  This is in comparison to other cans I've gamed with online in competitive FPSs. I'd say they are okay or adequate at best.


----------



## 129207

My DT880 is better for FPS-type gaming where you need accuracy and positioning but for some reason I enjoy my HD580/HD600 way more for single player fps/RPG/adventure games. The Sennheiser's warmth and beefier lower end makes everything sound more immersive to my ears. More fun. For example, when I switch from Battlefield BC2 single player to multiplayer I also switch headphones.  
   
  I must admit the HD580/HD600 sounds great with CMSS-3D where the DT880 fares better with my Laptop's Dolby Headphone.


----------



## shamrock134

Fair enough, I didn't really use them for SP purposes.
   
  I upgraded to them from HD595s and considering how good they were for MP, I found the HD600 severely lacking!
   
  I got BC2 in the recent steam sale and as fun as it is, sound whoring just doesn't help in it as much as other games. Unlike CS for example where footsteps are key to locating people, in BC2 everybody is a frickin ninja able to silently sneak up on you and stab you! The only way to track people I've found is if they shout out something or fire their guns.


----------



## Jmatt110

Which headphone do you guys think would be best with a Burson Audio HA-160 using CMSS-3D (X-Fi Titanium HD). Mostly for use with RPG's and a side of FPS.


----------



## 129207

Well the DT880 is a no-brainer for gaming and will no doubt sound amazing out of your Burson too. What's your budget? Would you prefer an open or closed headphone? Do you plan to use them for listening to music as well? 50/50? The DT880 sounds great for classical, jazz, soundtracks etc. but I'd don't use them for fast and agressive music.


----------



## Jmatt110

Budget is up to $1.5k (if its justifiable that much better than something lower). Preference would be Gaming -> Movies -> Music (Rock, Classical, Mixes of the two [no rap/hip hop]). I'd prefer Open cans. Currently using HD555's.
  
  Quote: 





negakinu said:


> Well the DT880 is a no-brainer for gaming and will no doubt sound amazing out of your Burson too. What's your budget? Would you prefer an open or closed headphone? Do you plan to use them for listening to music as well? 50/50? The DT880 sounds great for classical, jazz, soundtracks etc. but I'd don't use them for fast and agressive music.


----------



## 129207

In my opinion gaming audio isn't "hi-fi" enough to warrant a >$1K headphone. Then again, if you have the money and are going to use it for music as well, why not just get something like a Hifiman HE-500/Audeze LCD-2/HD800 and be done forever? 
   
  If I had disposeable income like that I'd always buy a couple of headphones instead of one really expensive one. It's all about diminishing returns after a certain amount of dough so I'd rather have different signatures/types to choose from. One pair of 1964 Quad custom IEMs, a Hifiman HE-4...


----------



## Jmatt110

I was thinking of the HD800 (i love my HD555's and CX500's), but I haven't seen too many gaming reports with them. Say my budget was 600, what then?


----------



## 129207

Hifiman HE-4, second-hand HE-5LE, second-hand Denon D7000, Stax Lambda rig or a DT880 600 with a nice pair of IEMs to compliment them? Are you looking to invest in a single headphone or are you open to purchasing several?


----------



## redwarrior191

guys, i'm now really curious about this dolby headphone thing.. so, if i'm using a laptop, the only option for me is to buy mixamp or DSS?? what is the cheapest solution to get this DH feature??


----------



## Jmatt110

I'd prefer a single set, music comprises about 10% of my listening so I'm not too concerned about it


----------



## afrocod

I just got my E9. So I've got DT 990's, the DSS and the E9. The question is does the connection between the E9 and the DSS run from the DSS 3.5mm headphone jack to the LINE IN on the E9 or the PRE_OUTPUT? Also do I leave the gain switch in the up position because I've got the 600 ohm version?
   
  P.S. How are you balancing the volume between the DSS/Mixamp and the E9. Like leave DSS/Mixamp down low or half way or up full and then use the E9 for the main volume control?


----------



## TMRaven

You'd probably want to keep volume on the DSS is low as possible.  That thing's very noisy.


----------



## BournePerfect

I think you should probably use the E9 as a 'power amp' in this situation, if you will. Turn the volume dial ALL the way up on the E9, and use the volume control on the DSS (like a preamp). Just don't forget to turn the volume down on both units when switching headphones, etc!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## afrocod

Thank you both.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> guys, i'm now really curious about this dolby headphone thing.. so, if i'm using a laptop, the only option for me is to buy mixamp or DSS?? what is the cheapest solution to get this DH feature??


 

 The absolute cheapest way I was able to get dolby headphone onto my computer was to buy used pair of Plantronics GameCom 777 headset that comes with a usb dongle that has DH built in off of ebay. I bought it from one of Bestbuy's now extinct used goods ebay accounts for $25 and the left ear was blown. I emailed them about it and they refunded my money and just told me to chuck it in the trash, so I chucked the headset and kept the dongle.
   
  You can also find a used Asus Xonar U1 which also has dolby headphone built in. I was able to pick that one from another forum for $25.


----------



## lennyr

Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> guys, i'm now really curious about this dolby headphone thing.. so, if i'm using a laptop, the only option for me is to buy mixamp or DSS?? what is the cheapest solution to get this DH feature??


 


  I got the Asus Xonar U3 about a week ago.  It is really great.  A huge upgrade over my onboard sound (Alienware M17x R2) for music and movies, and the Dolby Headphone in games is fantastic.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





> Tritton AX Pro (TRUE 5.1 headset)
> 
> 
> This is my first and LAST 5.1 headset. This is the worst frigging headset I have ever heard. I couldn't believe this junk was worth $189... I was peeved. The sound quality was absolutely mediocre, more on par with $30 headphones (KSC75 excluded).


 
   

 Lol.  I was recently directed to this thread, and I have to comment on this quote.  It's 100% dead accurate.  My actual first experience was with the Tritton AX 720, which I felt sounded like pure crap compared to just listening to some HD 280's in stereo through my Denon amp so I took them back right away.  I didn't realize that you could use "any" headphone with them either, because I swore the input on the box was essentially the same as the AX pro.  Maybe they changed models, I dunno.  I ended up getting the Ax Pro, and still thought the sound sucked badly, but that it did a much better job at discrete seperation.  It was horrible at emulating the front speaker though, and it always sounded like it was coming angled towards my temples and slightly mixed with the front.  I also dismissed the "Dolby Headphone" tech, because my experience with the AX 720 was not so hot, and I wrongfully assumed that the tech was just trash.

 Fast forward to a few days ago when I "rediscovered" Dolby Headphone by setting up MPC-HC on my PC to use it, and I was blown away by how utterly convincing it was in comparison to the Tritton headphones, especially the center as well as dialogue.  About the only good thing the Trittons had going for them was the bass--it was no slouch, but it often muddied everything else.
   
  Now I'm in the market for *non competitive* headphones that are _excellent_ *for movies* with Dolby Headphone, yet are no slouch for non competitive gaming.  I had simply been using my Sennheiser HD 280s (yes, I know...) and they created a very "theater like" ambiance which completely and utterly *DESTROYED* anything the Trittons did when watching Blu-rays.  So much so, that it's ruined me even using the Trittons at all now.  I had also recently purchased some Phonak PFE 122's (IEM) that I rarely use, because they honestly sound too clinical and "dead" to my ears.  Yet I decided to try them out with Dolby Headphone just to see if they were good at anything, and WOW.  If the imaging that the HD 280s gave would be an 8/10, then these would definitely have to be a 10/10 in comparison (and I'm not even saying that they are the best for this either, only the best for what I have).  The channel seperation was out of this world and dialogue was pristine.  Effects like what you can hear during the various action sequences in The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded were incredible.  The downside is that a) the bass was pathetic beyond belief--the HD 280s felt way more theater like and b) them being crammed inside my ears become painful after an hour or so.

 So I'm looking for a combination of the two: the amazing seperation of channels and pretty much perfect dialogue and a representation of a center speaker, but with the theater like bass.  I also do not have $1000 to spend, so the D7000s are out of the question.

 Right now it looks like I'm stuck on the DT990 premiums.

 Also, does anyone have any idea if you can take a Dolby Headphone source, amplify it with something like an E9, yet also add more bass through the E7 without losing the DH processing?
   
   
  Quote: 





> To put it as a 5.1 or 7.1 would downplay what DH. There are no speaker cues. It's a full 360 degree sound field, it may as well be labeled as 20.1 surround or something.


 
   
  I'm not sure you understand what discrete seperation is then.  Having a "spherical" sound field does not mean you're getting distinct and isolated sounds all around you--you're getting reverb from each source that's mixing all around you, while at the same time hearing sounds from one of the 5-7 virtual speakers independantly.  If you were to sit in the proper position of a proper 5.1 - 7.1 setup, and turn it up LOUD (as well as factoring the acoustics of your room)--you'll be getting a similar effect, yet with more precise seperation.  That's not a guess, it's a fact.  Dolby Headphone is wonderful for those who cannot blast out their family or neighbors, but in no way does it do what a proper theater setup can do, it only emulates it to a degree.


----------



## redwarrior191

guys.. can i use any of these external soundcards to get DH feature??
http://hk.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=873&product=20056
http://hk.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=873&product=17892&listby=usage
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/sound-cards/audio-advantage-micro-ii.aspx


----------



## grimzz R

no


----------



## neks0ne

This may help some of you- I wrote this because this "question" comes up quite a bit - This particular post was about Halo Reach. Obviously Headphones are especially important in the comp community, so I will paste it here... 
   
  Halo: Reach has some killer audio, though in some cases that immersive gameplay audio seems to dampen voice communication. Good or bad alot of this has to do with audio set up, and some of the things that are easily overlooked in home theater/office audio set ups.
  Halo Reach was written and mastered with Dolby Digital 5.1. This coding allows for Dolby capable processors to analyze in-game sound and output to corresponding channels/speakers. The settings on a home theater receiver may have multiple modes of Dolby. Bungie has some great info on how you can make the best of your set up- Check it out – http://www.bungie.net/projects/reach/article.aspx?ucc=faq&cid=28796
   
  What about Headphones?
   
  Headphones can be a great advantage to the FPS player. They assist greatly in hearing your teammates, as well as the blue fella behind you who wants to go into all assassination animation on you!
  Neks, how do I make sense of the info above and apply it to headphones? There are two camps essentially on this subject matter. One being the 5.1 Headphone, the other being the Dolby HP Processor.
   
  Dolby Digital and “5.1” Headphones
   
  The Dolby Digital 5.1 , and Headphone set up in almost all cases has two components. A breakout box that has the ability to process and decode Dolby Digital 5.1 as well as output to its paired counterpart, a Headphone that has multiple drivers. These drivers are usually small and anemic due to the size and ohms they can handle. In this scenario the Dolby Processor exists as it would in a home theater environment- Digital signal is processed and decoded by the source (on topic, Halo)- and the channels corresponding to the process would be translated to analog audio to set up surrounding you- In a headphone, they are now received inside to placed drivers in the phones. Some Examples would be Turtle Beach, Tritton. Though as of late- Tritton and Turtlebeach have moved to the Dolby : HP Technology.
  Dolby: HP, and Headphones
   
  Dolby HP is universal processing for any stereo headphone. Though some manufactures still create a non universal scenario for obvious reasons. The details of Dolby HP can be better explained with the coupled definition of how our brain and our ears interpret distance, depth and direction when it comes to aural perception. Essentially our ears are stereo- and our “surround processor” is the brain. Our ears receive signal in the form of vibration/sound, the brain then translates that signal to determine its basic location. In a Headphone set up, your ears are virtually connected to those signals. Determining distance with 5.1 headphone is possible, but the actual distance between the driver and your ear is miniscule, so ultimately it has less of an effect than a true surround set up.
   
  Dolby Headphone attempts to defeat this by emulating your brain! It takes processed Dolby Data and couples it with algorithm targeted delays of sound to give the brain the perception of location. The Dolby HP processor is sometimes harder to find, partially due to the cost to the manufactures. There are Home Theater Recievers that offer this, but they too can be hard to find. Harmon Kardan used it in their previous AVR line, as well as Marantz and Onkyo. In some cases, a true Reciever with many features can be had for a few more dollars then the Astro Mixamp. Yikes. Turtle Beach has one that is 80 dollars and is called the DSS.
   
  Dolby Info - http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html
   
  Over all- when looking for the right pair of headphones, do your research. Gaming Peripheral manufactures don’t always make quality High-Fi. Would you buy a Washer and Dryer from MadCatz?


----------



## redwarrior191

Quote: 





grimzz r said:


> no


 


  hmm..OK, so it seems that my only option is asus xonar u1 or u3 then..


----------



## wizia

I have some spare money and I want a new pair of cans. I have the DT880 250 and I'm between the classic HD650 or the AKG K701. There is a local shop where the 650 have 50% off only this week and thats why I'm considering them.
   
  I think the K701 might just be too similar to my Beyers and not worth the money. I'm interested in the AKG's because they seem to be perfect for FPS gaming. I play a lot and the DT880 are superb but I're read now quite a few times the 701 are better in this regard.
   
  On the other hand I listen to music as much as I game and the 650 might be a great combination now they are cheaper.
   
  I can see myself having them all in a few years lol but at this time I only have room for one more.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





> DT770 Pro 80
> 
> 
> Comfort king. This is a heavy hitter. Very impressive for non-competitive gaming, especially if you wanna feel like you're in a movie theater. The bass is considerably super powered, and would make this a bad choice for competitive gaming. However, the soundstage depth and width is surprisingly large for a closed headphone. These also have the VERY best sense of distance when positioning sounds...PERIOD. Nothing has toppled this headphone when it comes to that. Not the AD700, K701, or HD598. Too bad it's too wild in bass for hardcore FPS gaming. The finer details are prety much sucked out because of the bass.


 
   
  I've been looking at the DT990 premiums, but I may end up having to stick with a closed set--so I started reading more on the DT770 pro, especially due to the "sense of distance" comment.  However, I do not want bass that's so overpowering that it adds such a thick layer to everything else that the details become muddy.

 This article refers to how the bass response drastically changes depending on the impedence of the source.  That with lower impedence, it sounds more "punchy" (good for music and details), but with higher impedence sources, it would become "boomy" (not good for clarity).
   
  So what happens when you take a pair of 32 - 80 Ohm headphones, connect them to a "low impedence" (i.e. 80 or less) source and amp them?  Should this have any effect at all on the bass of the DT770?


----------



## obazavil

actually... DT990 doesn't leak that much... leaks more than a closed, but is ages behind what K702 leaks 
   
  Unless I'm listening to my music very loud, Noone complains here at the office


----------



## lennyr

Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> hmm..OK, so it seems that my only option is asus xonar u1 or u3 then..


 

 I had the X-Fi Go! Pro, returned it, and got a Xonar U3.  Not only was the X-Fi's CMSS / THX-TSP inferior to Dolby Headphone in positioning and audio quality, the Creative card made my computer unstable.  I have been 100% happy with the U3.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> actually... DT990 doesn't leak that much... leaks more than a closed, but is ages behind what K702 leaks
> 
> Unless I'm listening to my music very loud, Noone complains here at the office


 


  Could you do me a small favor?  Put them on, and turn them up to the highest "comfortable" level you normally use them at, put them on a table or chair or whatever and cover up the actual inner ear heaphone area with a pillow or something and then leave the room with the door closed.  Can you hear the outer leakage from 5-8 feet away from the door, or through the wall in the room directly next to it?
   
  Not only do I not want my neighbors complaining that they can hear something at 2:00 am, they are also at times exceedingly annoying, and I use headphones to escape their own noise.  I've never used open headphones, and really don't want to get some "good" sounding ones that still cause me to be assaulted by outside noise.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





sanctuary said:


> Could you do me a small favor?  Put them on, and turn them up to the highest "comfortable" level you normally use them at, put them on a table or chair or whatever and cover up the actual inner ear heaphone area with a pillow or something and then leave the room with the door closed.  Can you hear the outer leakage from 5-8 feet away from the door, or through the wall in the room directly next to it?
> 
> Not only do I not want my neighbors complaining that they can hear something at 2:00 am, they are also at times exceedingly annoying, and I use headphones to escape their own noise.  I've never used open headphones, and really don't want to get some "good" sounding ones that still cause me to be assaulted by outside noise.


 

 I can do the test this weekend, sure... but if isolation is what you are looking, definitely a closed  can is a much better option.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





lennyr said:


> I had the X-Fi Go! Pro, returned it, and got a Xonar U3.  Not only was the X-Fi's CMSS / THX-TSP inferior to Dolby Headphone in positioning and audio quality, the Creative card made my computer unstable.  I have been 100% happy with the U3.


 


  Unfortunately, Creative was really off their game when they released both an updated X-Fi Go! Pro and X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro. Both previous versions (non-Pro) outperformed them and had no issues at all. Tsk tsk, Creative


----------



## matryx

I picked up the Sennheiser HD558 recently on sale for $125. They are pretty good but I was wondering if I should get the DT770 Pro 80ohms instead for $200. I do some gaming but I watch a lot more movies so I was wondering if I should return these and get the DT770 Pro 80ohms. The DT770 I can't return since the store I'm getting them from don't allow that.


----------



## BournePerfect

Sanctuary:
   
       I would HIGHLY recommend the Pro 900 for use with movies. I've used the Dt 990s, DT 880s, K702, D2000, HD595, and quite a few others...and I didn't like ANY of them for movies. The Pro 900 completely changed my view with this. To me they are as incredibly immersive as my $2000 5.1 speaker/sub system believe it or not, and to me they are worth buying for that alone. I used them both in stereo mode and DH mode for movies and actually preferred the stereo mode for the most part. For games, the DH works wonders though. Also, I only used them with the silver pads as it brought out the mids a lot more and tamed the bass quite a bit.
   
       I used to think headphones for movies was pretty pathetic until I used the Pro 900. I know others really like the D2000 and DT 900s-but to me the Pros are on a completely different level. I believe a lot of it is the fact that it has one of the most convincingly real soundstages/imaging of any headphone I've owned. My .02.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JCDenton2052

Great write up here, love it. I'm still undecided on what phones i want. I think i have whittled it down to just a few now those are:
   
  Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm
  Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm
  Sennheiser PC360 G4ME
  M-Audio Q40
   
  Im completely new to headphones so i was wondering if someone could decide for me. These four sound superb from what im reading and im leaning toward the DT 990 Premium's. Im stricly PC gaming only but i'm not a competitve FPS gamer, more casual. I love FPS', it's what got me into gaming/PC's back in 1991/2 so i will always play a decent FPS for the fun factor it gives. I will also be competing on BF3 when it is out as i haven't played an online FPS game since BF2. In recent times i have been playing more and more RPG's, games like ME, Witcher, TES etc so i mix it up a bit in games. I like bass but not too heavy, i prefer hearing everything with the added oompf of bass throw in. I prefer crystal clear sound over too much bass.
   
  Music i do listen to but most of the time i just like to chill out on a game more than listen to music. It's more of 80% gaming 20% music so will the DT 990's be the perfect match for me?
   
  I'm itching to buy some headphones, itching. Mainly because my speakers are too loud for neighbors and house mates late at night but i also want a good pair so i can mix it up a little between speakers and phones.
   
  EDIT - Just to add i have a Asus Xonar Essence STX Soundcard with seperate Headphone Amp. The control panel of the card has the option for Dolby Headphone but im unsure on how well it performs.


----------



## Scytus

Wow this thread has grown, I remember seeing it when it just started.
   
  I have been on my search for a good setup of gaming & music equipment for a while, though I've been focusing more on finishing up my computer build as of late. I'm essentially hoping for direction, as MLE, Shamrock & others seem to have far more experience than I in this area.
   
  I would first like to ask though, if it's possible to use a sound card as both a DAC and gateway to Dolby Headphone? This is the setup I envision using:

  If that is possible, I need advice on this setup to work together (For PC Gaming):

 Headphones
 Amp
 Soundcard
   
*Headphone*
      I have tried Ultrasone Pro 550's, Pro 900's, HFI-580's, Sony XB500, LCD-2's, Beyerdynamic T1's, and Sennheiser HD600/650. Out of all of these headphones, I absolutely loved the positioning, separation, massive sound-stage, and tonality (as in, while extremely clear & detailed, I didn't perceive it as analytical/cold, resulting in music being engaging rather than boring) of the Beyer T1's, and really disliked the HD600/650. Also, I don't think I want to own completely open cans; if I had a choice, it would be the semi-open design of the T1, as it didn't seem to leak as much as the open cans did.
   
  My two gripes with the T1? the bass, while extremely clean, was almost non-existent... also the **** set of headphones cost 1.2k, insane. So as far as headphone goes, I'm essentially looking for a non-fully-open (or closed, if sound-stage is hardly sacrificed) set of cans that share the qualities of T1 (especially for that beautiful sound-stage), with more bass impact (I will be using these for both SP and MP games, I like the theatrical bass/rumble), and at a lower price-point.
   
_EDIT:_ At first I thought the DT990's were the perfect match, then I read of the sharp treble, sibilance & anemic bass, which had me looking elsewhere.
   
*Amp*
     I really have to do some more research when it comes to amps, but I've been considering either the Matrix M-Stage or Lovely Cube.
   
*Soundcard*
    I'd need the soundcard to have a PCIe interface, accept input from an amp, and would (naturally) want it to have Dolby Headphone capabilities. I need advice on this area as I have no idea what the difference is on the 8+ Xonar varieties. That, and there are also creative/other brand cards that I thought I should possibly look into.
   
   
   
  I hope the combination you guys recommend would culminate into a great gaming/everyday-use audio setup C:


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Sanctuary:
> 
> I would HIGHLY recommend the Pro 900 for use with movies. I've used the Dt 990s, DT 880s, K702, D2000, HD595, and quite a few others...and I didn't like ANY of them for movies. The Pro 900 completely changed my view with this. To me they are as incredibly immersive as my $2000 5.1 speaker/sub system believe it or not, and to me they are worth buying for that alone.* I used them both in stereo mode and DH mode for movies and actually preferred the stereo mode for the most part.* For games, the DH works wonders though. Also, I only used them with the silver pads as it brought out the mids a lot more and tamed the bass quite a bit.


 
   
  I'm wondering if maybe DH did not sound so hot to you because of the way those headphones are designed to change the sound stage already through "S-Logic Natural Surround Sound".  DH does not play nice with headphones that have angled drivers or fiddle around with the acoustics too much.  The drivers on those headphones are off-centered and it's doing it's own surround thing--which is why it probably sounds as good as it does in stereo--so it actually probably sounds awful in DH mode.
   
  I do like the way those headphones look very durable though and easy to get replacement parts for.  The reviews I've read on them say that the bass is incredible, but it doesn't cloud the details--but of course it could be too much for some.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sanctuary said:


> I'm wondering if maybe DH did not sound so hot to you because of the way those headphones are designed to change the sound stage already through "S-Logic Natural Surround Sound".  *DH does not play nice with headphones that have angled drivers* or fiddle around with the acoustics too much.  The drivers on those headphones are off-centered and it's doing it's own surround thing--which is why it probably sounds as good as it does in stereo--so it actually probably sounds awful in DH mode.
> 
> I do like the way those headphones look very durable though and easy to get replacement parts for.  The reviews I've read on them say that the bass is incredible, but it doesn't cloud the details--but of course it could be too much for some.


 

  

 A*ngled drive*r* headphones *usually play quite nice with DH.  For example the  AD700, K70x, and Senn HD5xx and PC360 all have angled drivers, and are notorious for performing well with DH.  Not to mention the HD800 and T1 both have angled drivers and are great according to the reports of people who've tried them.
   
  Now, the S-logic I'm not so sure about.  I think thats taking it a step further and trying to make an almost DSP sounding effect that could clash with the DH DSP.
   
  I think dolby headphone works good with headphones that have a lot of sound separation and left-right soundstage (which I _think_ angled drivers might help with).  DH then spreads the left-right around in 360 degress creating a big sounding soundstage and you still keep the separation. 
   
  I've owned the MDR F1's before and they had less left-right soundstage and separation and instead had a 3d-ish cross-feed sound out of the box in stereo.  Slapping DH on them didn't work out as well as I hoped, as it just sounded like running a DH signal through a pair of speakers and I couldn't position stuff very well (think ->Dolby pro logic)


----------



## matryx

How hard is it to drive the Pro 900s. Anywhere I can get them for a decent price in Canada?


----------



## MohawkUS

Slogic + Dolby is the best combination I've heard for gaming. They completment each other nicely.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Slogic + Dolby is the best combination I've heard for gaming. They completment each other nicely.


 


  So now we have one poster who did not particularly care for that combination, and one who thinks it sounds good together.  The problem I have is that S-Logic is a different take on Silent Cinema/Pro Logic/Dolby Headphone, but it's not using any kind of algorithm, just the design of the headphones.  It could just be amplifying the effect of Dolby Headphone, but I could also see it making it a huge, jumbled, sphere of reverb too, like you're in a cave watching a movie or playing a game.

 Not having heard it myself though, I can't really do anything other than speculate.


----------



## maverickronin

Different people have different anatomies which affect their own personal HRTF and because of that no single combination of headphone and DSP will work the same for everyone.


----------



## MohawkUS

The comonation of Slogic and Dolby gave me the most lifelike gaming expeiriance I've ever heard. I tested it out with Fallout NV, so I don't know how good it would be for competitive gaming, but I was majorly impressed. The ambiance was good enough that I walked all the way across the game map without even thinking of fast travel. I gave it a quick test with Minecraft, the sound effects arn't quite hifi, but I got a good sense of space, height, distance, and all that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Different people have different anatomies which affect their own personal HRTF and because of that no single combination of headphone and DSP will work the same for everyone.


 


  DH and other DSPs go for a one size fits all approach in regards to HRTF. 
   
  Here are some sample of audio processed with different HRTFs for different heads -->  http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/sounds.html
   
  I'm not sure how Dolby decided on the head shape to use, but DH could probably be adjusted to better fit different heads if they let you play with settings.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> DH and other DSPs go for a one size fits all approach in regards to HRTF.
> 
> Here are some sample of audio processed with different HRTFs for different heads -->  http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/sounds.html
> 
> I'm not sure how Dolby decided on the head shape to use, but DH could probably be adjusted to better fit different heads if they let you play with settings.


 

 The thing is, they _try _for a "one size fits all" but that's pretty much impossible so it ends up being a "one size is acceptable to most" sort of thing.
   
  I'm just trying to point out that the fact that different people have different opinions about what headphones work with DH of even if DH is better than stereo is not a sign of someone lying or of a grand conspiracy.  They just have different ears, heads, faces, and torsos than you do and that influences you localize sounds in RL.
   
  It would be better if there more setting to play around with but it would be a hassle to add the ability to change the settings to an arbitrary piece of hardware like the mixamp or a receiver so it's not done.


----------



## calpis

DH works really well with Open-backed Ultrasones, I use it with my hfi-2200 and hfi-15g/hs-15 and get great results. I intended to pick up the  PRO2900 but too many game sales in the past couple weeks made me spend my money elsewhere. I'm not sure how well it works with closed-backed Ultrasones since I don't own any, but I'm sure it'd be fine though but it might have too much bass (PRO900) for competitive playing


----------



## BournePerfect

I need to clarify a couple of things. First, Dolby Headphone is absolutely phenomenal on the Pro 900s for gaming-I never said otherwise! I believe they were made for each other-and even Ultrasone themselves say S-Logic is designed to work for DH and the like-just read the description on the Amazon page.
   
  Also, I hate to admit that MOST of the movies I was watching with the Pro 900s were streaming on the 360- and I don't believe any of them were DD to begin with-which means my DSS was actually just putting out Pro Logic II-which would also explain why I preferred movies in stereo. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Unfortunately I just got the Netflix service when I got my Pros so I'm not even sure if I tried them with real DD (to DH) cuz I was always watching Netflix and not Blu-rays lol. I'm sure I'd be just as impressed with the DH for movies as I was with games! Sure want to try Silent Cinema with these now!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Eskanasi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> K701 (or K702 for those who went that route)
> 
> Now if only they were easy to drive. Believe it or not, the Mixamp does a SPECTACULAR job driving the K70x, as long as you don't mix in voice chat whatsoever. Talking about leaving the game/voice balance completely on the game side. Once you nudge the balance away from game, the volume takes a steep dive, and you will note how badly the things need an amp.


 


  What do you mean about the voice/game balance? I didn't understand that in the thread. Are you saying that when you have mates talking in say Teamspeak the sound becomes a lot worse?


----------



## BournePerfect

He's talking about how the Mixamp can't properly power the AKG's for BOTH the game audio AND the voice chat to acceptable levels simultaneously. I can confirm this.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## obazavil

Hmm... I use my k702 with mixamp and chat and i can hear ok... But this is on black OPS, where audio sux even with k702 and no chat. 
When my lyr arrives, I can leave my e9 always with k702 to try again


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I need to clarify a couple of things. First, Dolby Headphone is absolutely phenomenal on the Pro 900s for gaming-I never said otherwise! I believe they were made for each other-and even *Ultrasone themselves say S-Logic is designed to work for DH and the like-just read the description on the Amazon page*.
> 
> Also, I hate to admit that MOST of the movies I was watching with the Pro 900s were streaming on the 360- and I don't believe any of them were DD to begin with-which means my DSS was actually just putting out Pro Logic II-which would also explain why I preferred movies in stereo.
> 
> ...


 

  
  Hmm, thanks for clarifying.  I know it was mentioned that they sounded great with games (I wasn't really saying anyone said otherwise, I was simply focusing on the "movie" aspect is all--my bad for not being specific), but I was looking for a games + movies headset, with movies being the most important.  Not because I watch movies much more than I game, but because I think it's easier to enjoy [non FPS] games with any "decent" headphones than it is to have a truly awesome experience watching movies.

 What is your source for DH anyway, a dedicated receiver, or are you using one of the smaller DACs? Are you using any EQ?  I only ask, because I'm going to have to end up buying not only a headphone amp, but possibly an EQ.  Price wise, they don't seem to be _that much_ more than the DT990's, but the main issue is still finding a good place to purchase them from new.
   
  I did read the product description, and saw nothing mentioned about Dolby Headphone anywhere for the 900 series--which is why I started questioning compatibility in the first place.  However, I do see it listed for the "HFI-780's" which they claim were tailored specifically for gaming and movie watching.

 Edit: Bleh, impulse buying FTW?  I'll have my 900s next week.  Hopefully I won't need to modify the bass back at all.  Since these are not for critical music listening (even though they are still supposed to sound great even with non DNB/Hip-Hop) it should not matter too much.  Plus, I want that subwoofer feeling for movies and games anyway.  Just in time for the LOTR and Star Wars (original) Blu-Ray trilogies eh?


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





sanctuary said:


> Hmm, thanks for clarifying.  I know it was mentioned that they sounded great with games (I wasn't really saying anyone said otherwise, I was simply focusing on the "movie" aspect is all--my bad for not being specific), but I was looking for a games + movies headset, with movies being the most important.  Not because I watch movies much more than I game, but because I think it's easier to enjoy [non FPS] games with any "decent" headphones than it is to have a truly awesome experience watching movies.
> 
> What is your source for DH anyway, a dedicated receiver, or are you using one of the smaller DACs? Are you using any EQ?  I only ask, because I'm going to have to end up buying not only a headphone amp, but possibly an EQ.  Price wise, they don't seem to be _that much_ more than the DT990's, but the main issue is still finding a good place to purchase them from new.
> 
> ...


 


  Could you do a comparison of the Beyer 990's vs the Ultrasone 900's, when you get them in ofcourse.


----------



## BournePerfect

Sanctuary, I'm just simply using the DSS for both movies and games believe it or not. Sometimes I use the DSS as a preamp and run it into the E9. Also, maybe it was the 780 description I was thinking of on Amazon, but keep in mind the 900s have the + version which is supposed to be better anyway. I will reiterate again that the 900s SMOKE any of my other headphones for movies imo. A lot of my headphones are serviceable for gaming with DH, but for some reason I always hate headphones for movies until the 900s won me over in a huge way. I would easily recommend them at full retail price even if you were only gonna use them with movies-they're that good. Also, I do not use any equalizing with them whatsoever-but I've never really been down that road anyway. I can't state enough how much the silver pads help to balance everything to my ears...but they might not be for everybody (bassheads). Another option is getting a Moon Audio Blue Dragon cable which many Pro 900 users rave about-I will be doing so eventually.
   
  Regarding price, keep in mind that the DT 990s will require serious amplification, whereas you don't really need it with the Pros-they will benefit from it for sure though! But they do sound great from anything imo.
   
  Scytus, FWIW I wasn't a big fan of the DT 990s. Even though they were a 'fun' sounding headphone for sure...a couple of things really turned me off of them. First off, the mids were very recessed to my ears. Vocals in my pop/rock songs were always getting buried under the bass and that was unacceptable for me from a vocals/guitar standpoint for music. Secondly, much like the 880s, they were very sibilant up top, and they were the only two headphones which always made my ears ring. I would bet however, that they would be very good for movies and singleplayer gaming. Their bass is incredibly subwoofer like and very enjoyable. They are also very comfortable to wear for hours on end.
   
  I still believe the Pro 900s are better in every single area other than comfort. The bass is better all the way around, the mids are 'less' recessed, and the highs aren't quite as piercing (but still a bit sibilant). Keep in mind that I got rid of the DT 990s in less than a week.  Even though I had good amps for them (modded m-Stage and Asgard at the time), I do wonder if they would have improved much with burnin...which I probably did for a couple of days if memory serves. Anyway, hope this helps.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





scytus said:


> Could you do a comparison of the Beyer 990's vs the Ultrasone 900's, when you get them in ofcourse.


 

 Sorry, I won't be able to do that.  I don't own the 990s, they were what I had been considering purchasing out of all of the headphones I'd seen discussed here until the Ultrasones were brought to my attention.
   
  Quote: 





> Sanctuary, I'm just simply using the DSS for both movies and games believe it or not. Sometimes I use the DSS as a preamp and run it into the E9.


 

 On that note, something else that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction yet: would something like the E7 (instead of E9) adversely affect the DH processing since it's also a DAC?  I'm looking at either the E7, E9 or E11--all of which seem to have different strengthes and weaknesses.  Both the E9 and E11 are amp only, and the E7 has a DAC.  Whatever amp I end up getting would already be connected to a DAC.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well you can't really double-dac something like you can double amp it. What are you using for DH?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JimMcD

I'm looking for some headphones that I can use for both Gaming and to use when listening to my iPod or laptop. When gaming I mainly play COD on the Xbox 360 and I will be using the headphone with my Astro Mix Amp. Can someone help me choose a closed headphone that will be best for me. I currently own a pair of Sennheiser PC 360's so I'm looking for something that will either match them or exceed them. Thanks.


----------



## BournePerfect

The Pro 900 duh. Maybe a W1000x, although I haven't really heard how they work for gaming. Keep in mind that the Pro 900s don't seal very well at all, if that's a problem. Or maybe you have $1500 to blow...just buy an Edition 8 and call it a day...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JimMcD

Sorry probably should of said that my maximum budget is £250.


----------



## maverickronin

Somebody in one of the W1000x threads said he like it for gaming.  I'm not sure if that was for single player immersion, FPS pinpoint accuracy, or both.


----------



## BournePerfect

One headphone I always wanted to try for gaming is the W5000. It is said to have an extremely accurate 3D soundstage, and is very detailed to boot. I do wonder however, if the soundstage could possibly improve on the Ulrasones though especially with DH and like like...I would assume they great though.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JimMcD

I think I'm going to buy the Beyerdynamic DT770's but I'm unsure on whether to buy the 80 or 250 OHM. Will the Astro Mix Amp be able to power the 250?


----------



## BournePerfect

The Mixamp will power them fine...but you better hope to get a bass-shy version or they will be less than optimal for competetive gaming.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## JimMcD

Can you link me to where I can buy a bass-shy version please.


----------



## BournePerfect

Sorry I can't. I'm not very familiar with the 770. I just know there are plenty of people here claiming some are very bass heavy and some are bass shy. I'd suggest pm-ing Zombie_X who is the master of all things Beyerdynamic around these parts...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

This thread might be helpful:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  -Daniel
   
  Edit: After briefly reading that, it looks like the 32 ohm version is probably the one to get for competetive gaming, and the 80 ohm is the one to steer clear of.
   
  The 32 ohm can be purchased here, but may be cheaper elsewhere, idk:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-32-Headphones/dp/B0024NK36C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310857293&sr=8-1


----------



## Inquartata

I currently use a pair of HFI-780s with an Astro MixAmp for movies and gaming, and I have to say, I love them for both. I was so loath to give up the HFI-780 for gaming when I was in XBL parties that I eventually picked up the Labtec mic and did a boom mic mod for the 780s (just used some self-stick velcro for attaching the boom mic, nothing intricate). It's worked out well. Still need to test it in some more in competitive FPS, though, to see if it works better or worse than the A40s I've been using for that. (Hey, I got the A40s and mixamp combo before I got into audio stuff. They aren't fantastic, but they do work fairly well for soundwhoring.) I have a suspicion that the bass might be somewhat distracting in multiplayer (plus, I'm not sure if the soundstage with the A40s or the 780s would be bigger. What do you guys use to test that?)
   
  Anyway, another recommendation for Ultrasone+DH from me. If S-Logic and DH work for your ears, it's a great, fun combo.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Well you can't really double-dac something like you can double amp it. What are you using for DH?
> 
> -Daniel


 


  The Pioneer SE-DIR800 box.  Basically it's an Astro mixamp with three DH settings instead of one that also decodes DTS and also allows for both wired and wireless to be active at the same time.  No mic possibilities however.
   
   
  Quote: 





> plus, I'm not sure if the soundstage with the A40s or the 780s would be bigger. What do you guys use to test that?


 
   
  Perhaps your own ears?


----------



## BournePerfect

Sanctuary-regarding your other question: You would probably ONLY use the Pioneer for games and movies to get the DH processing and amplification. If you feel like that is somewhat underpowered, you should then use the Pioneer as sort of a pre-amp to the E-9, E-11 etc. You would in this case turn the  volume ALL the way up on the Fiio, then use the Pioneer dial (as low as possible) to adjust for volume. This will keep the 'double-amping'  side effects to a minimum. If you used the E7 in this scenario, it's dac would be disabled anyway since the Pioneer will always be used as dac (DH processing) anyway. The best-case scenario however is using ONLY the Pioneer-except for music where you would probably want a better stereo dac doing those duties. Hope that all makes sense.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## calpis

Shouldn't you be set the source to ~95% then adjusting the volume on the amp (e9)?


----------



## BournePerfect

No you would only do that if you are using a line out function, which I doubt his Pioneer has. This is what you would do if you are using a headphone out that is already being amped...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Inquartata

Quote: 





sanctuary said:


> Perhaps your own ears?


 







 Right, because one game or sound file or song might not work better than any another in terms of trying to determine the size of the soundstage. All I need is my ears! Of course! Why didn't I think of that?


----------



## redwarrior191

guys..i just checked.. apparently the no local store in my country has mixamp, Turtle beach DSS, asus xonar U1 or U3.. T.T
  so is there any other way for me to get DH from laptop??


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





inquartata said:


> Right, because one game or sound file or song might not work better than any another in terms of trying to determine the size of the soundstage. All I need is my ears! Of course! Why didn't I think of that?


 

 I don't see what the problem is.  You're asking people on this forum which of the two headphones that you already own have the bigger sound stage for games [or music].  One would think that it would make more sense for you to do the testing for yourself since you actually have both, and you can easily test out the games that you own.  If you have less of an issue with one pair over the other with certain games, that's the pair you would use for those games.  If the other pair end up being better for other games, then you would switch.  The way a headphone sounds will vary from person to person.
   
    
  Quote: 





> guys..i just checked.. apparently the no local store in my country has mixamp, Turtle beach DSS, asus xonar U1 or U3.. T.T
> so is there any other way for me to get DH from laptop??


 

 For anything other than games, you can get it through software.
   
  http://pcloadletter.co.uk/2011/04/05/5-1-channel-audio-through-headphones/
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/447089/5-1-headphone-experience-foobar-configuration-for-all-stereo-music-files
  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/555263/foobar2000-dolby-headphone-config-comment-discuss

 Also, where do you live, and is it too expensive through shipping to get the hardware from Amazon?


----------



## redwarrior191

thanks sanctuary.. well, actually i want to get DH specifically for gaming.. I'm from Hong Kong, and I've never tried buying from amazon.. maybe i'll check it out..


----------



## lennyr

Quote: 





redwarrior191 said:


> guys..i just checked.. apparently the no local store in my country has mixamp, Turtle beach DSS, asus xonar U1 or U3.. T.T
> so is there any other way for me to get DH from laptop??


 


  You can also get DH from a laptop using headsets that have DH USB dongles, like the Sennheiser PC 333D.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





lennyr said:


> You can also get DH from a laptop using headsets that have DH USB dongles, like the Sennheiser PC 333D.


 

 I'd be wary of the 333D.  There are quite a few complaints about how very uncomfortable the 333D are.  Another option is the Tritton AX 720, but the default headphones are "meh" at best (their imaging with DH is actually quite terrible).  You have to factor in the cost of better headphones if you don't already have some, as well as the adapter that allows you to plug into the Tritton box. It would also require an optical out I believe, and I have no idea how many laptops have that.

 I also have no idea if this is a localized Chinese Amazon, or just an Amazon in Chinese that does international shipping.
   
  http://www.amazon.cn/?source=amazon-usfooter


----------



## redwarrior191

i already have a pair of hd598, so i think the best bet would be to buyy the xonar since it's much cheaper..
  oh, that amazon is China's amazon, but they only have a very limited collection of items.. thanks, btw..


----------



## Shredicus

Just picked up a refurbed set of PC360 for 110$ shipped. Cant wait to try them out with my Xonar ST. :0)


----------



## BournePerfect

Wow that's an amazing price on those! Hope they work out for you!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## nosaj03

Quote: 





sanctuary said:


> I'd be wary of the 333D.  There are quite a few complaints about how very uncomfortable the 333D are.  Another option is the Tritton AX 720, but the default headphones are "meh" at best (their imaging with DH is actually quite terrible).  You have to factor in the cost of better headphones if you don't already have some, as well as the adapter that allows you to plug into the Tritton box. It would also require an optical out I believe, and I have no idea how many laptops have that.
> 
> I also have no idea if this is a localized Chinese Amazon, or just an Amazon in Chinese that does international shipping.
> 
> http://www.amazon.cn/?source=amazon-usfooter


 


 The AX720 is a great versatile system which does not limit you to using just the stock headset. For the price it does offer a decent edge in competitive FPS mulitplayer. Im not a big fan of it in terms of music and movies and the soundstage with the stock cans arent as broad and clear as others but you can get it relatively cheap and it will suit your needs.
   
  Another headset that Im very impressed with even though it is just stereo sound is the Razer Chimaera 2.4. Great sound and its wireless. I know the 2.4hz can cause intereference with wireless routers and everything else wireless but knock on wood I havent had experienced any.


----------



## BournePerfect

I recently PM'd a guy some of my comparisons of the Pro 900 to the AD700 and K702. I figured I'd post a couple things here in case anyone can benefit from my impressions. 
   
  For gaming...the AD700s were great for competetive multi with a huge soundstage and good imaging. A complete lack of bass makes them very weak for immersiveness and multiplayer. I thought they were terrible for most music honestly. I don't listen to classical but I bet they would be pretty good for that. I preferred the K702 and Pro 900 by a HUGE margin-both for ALL types of gaming, music, and movies. Well I didn't like the AKGs for movies but the Pro 900s are the best I've ever heard in that regard. For the price, I think the AD700s are very good for cometetive multiplayer and nothing else. If you can splurge for the others I would definitely recommend doing so. Especially the Pro 900s as they are better all-rounders music-wise than the K702, and quite a bit better on the gaming/movies side, imo. Also they can be driven out of anything, and don't need great amplification like the K702s either!
   
  About the AD700s bass...it really is as bad as everyone claims lol. Almost nonexistent. It isn't even strong enough to give a good foundation for any type of music very well...and with games I believe it is the lack of bass that also makes the other frequencies weaker. For example an assault rifle in Battlefield Bad Company 2 sounds like someone is spraying an automatic plastic pellet pistol from 50 yeards lol. Just a VERY VERY tinny sound to it. The AKGs also sound a LITTLE thin, but not nearly as bad. The Pro 900s however, sound very real and impactful, and I believe a lot of that has to do with the bass serving as a foundation for more accurate mids (gunfire and footsteps in this instance.) The only area the AD700s excel in is the huge soundstage-BUT it tends to not have much depth at all. The Pro 900s have by far the BEST soundstage/imaging/3D depth of these 3 cans, and this makes it very simple to identify from exactly where almost ANY noise is coming from. Keep in mind that I ONLY use the Pro 900s with the silver pads, which tames the bass down slightly, but also really brings out the details in the mids. In this regard they worked absolutely flawlessly both for competetive gaming and from a singleplayer experience-which is where I felt the other 2 cans failed.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## lennyr

Quote: 





shredicus said:


> Just picked up a refurbed set of PC360 for 110$ shipped. Cant wait to try them out with my Xonar ST. :0)


 


  Where did you get them for that price?


----------



## Shredicus

Quote: 





lennyr said:


> Where did you get them for that price?


 

 http://www.mobilepc.com/Electronics/Sennheiser-PC360-Headset-for-Pro-Gaming
   

 promo code for 5% off: newcust5off
   
  There ya go 
   
   
    
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Wow that's an amazing price on those! Hope they work out for you!
> 
> -Daniel


 
  Thanks!


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> . The Pro 900s however, sound very real and impactful, and I believe a lot of that has to do with the bass serving as a foundation *for more accurate mids *(gunfire and footsteps in this instance.) The only area the AD700s excel in is the huge soundstage-BUT it tends to not have much depth at all. The Pro 900s have by far the BEST soundstage/imaging/3D depth of these 3 cans, and this makes it very simple to identify from exactly where almost ANY noise is coming from. Keep in mind that I ONLY use the Pro 900s with the silver pads, which tames the bass down slightly, but also really brings out the details in the mids. In this regard they worked absolutely flawlessly both for competetive gaming and from a singleplayer experience-which is where I felt the other 2 cans failed.
> -Daniel


 

 Mine will be here in two days, so I'll be able to make slightly more informed comments on the subject; but the recessed mids are one of the very few complaints (other than the "overbearing"--but you know, it depends on the person---bass) I've seen around the net from various articles on them.  There's even a guy testing out the frequencies through pink noise and also a spectrograph I believe (he calls it an analyzer) to show how flat any given pair of headphones are.  The 900's had elevated bass, then way lower than average midrange, and then it steadily rises up towards the high end, then drops again at the highest frequencies.  It actually resembles some of the graphs that have been shown for these too.

 I have no idea how accurate this could be with how kind of random he seemed to hold the testing mic, but it's an interesting video that shows a whole lot of various headphones.
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJh8B1QfEn0
   
  7:32 is when he shows the Ultrasones.
   
  You should also watch his video about his opinion of the benefits (or lack thereof) of burn in.  Even if his assessment is partially, or mostly incorrect, he still gives some pretty good practical advice.


----------



## BournePerfect

I cannot stress enough though: *USE THE SILVER PADS*!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Not to sound like a broken record but they REALLY bring out the mids and tame the bass. I'm not sure I'd even recommend them for competetive gaming with just the black pads, honestly. And even though the mids were still SLIGHTLY recessed, they were so very clear that the prominant bass didn't get in the way at all imo, but at the same time made  all types of gaming that much more immersive. _Pretty much every comment I've made for gaming has been with regards to the silver pads_. My only regret is I never tried the Blue Dragon cable which by most reports makes the headphones even more balanced across the spectrum, and apparently brings out a lot more detail (oh noes it's a myth!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and a much greater degree of transparency too. Sounds like a massive improvement at not to steep of a cost.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## shamrock134

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I cannot My only regret is I never tried the Blue Dragon cable


 

 Save your monies, resist temptation!
   
  Wouldn't mind getting some silver pads though for aesthetic reasons if nothing else.


----------



## BournePerfect

I don't know shamrock, most impressions for it are dramatically positive-and you know it would improve the aesthetics as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 But once you factor in the cost...you just start thinking of possible headphone upgrades lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## shamrock134

I'm not saying it just to troll, but I genuinely can't hear a difference when I was A/Bing the BD and stock. I was hoping to based on the positive impressions I read. I've left the BD on now as it definitely isn't detrimental to the sound and yeah it looks a lot better aesthetically.
   
  I guess this is a bit OT for the gaming headphone thread though. I do totally agree with you that the Pro900 is great for gaming.


----------



## Tante Pollewob

First off, Thanks for the good review Mad Lust Envy!
   
  Although I still seek guidance in what to buy.
  I am going to use the headphone for music, fun gaming  and a little bit of competitive gaming.
  My budget is around the 250-300 euro for the headphone and if needed a portable amp.
   
  My musical taste varies from hard electronic music ( dnb, industrial hardcore ) to rock/metal .
  A headphone with some clear bass is preferred, but there is no need for head-shaking rampage.
   
  I live in the Netherlands and being new to Hi-fi headphones am unsure which stores offer good headphones.
  The headphones that I’ve been looking at so far are:
   
  Beyer Dynamic 770DT 250 Ohm                ( € 155)
  Sennheiser PC 360 G4me                         (€  140) ( Am worried that these will leak the sound too much )
   
   
  I would like to use the headphones on my PC as well as my laptop.
  there for I understand I will probably need to buy a portable AMP.
  Most gamers seem to use the Astro Mixamp because of the Dolby Headphone feature.. is it really that good?
   
  Am really interested in the Astro Mixamp, but have heard alot about the Fiio E7 amp as well.
  What will be best for my needs?
   
  Astro Mixamp                                              ( € 120)
  Fiio E7                                                         ( € 80  )                                     
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## BournePerfect

No problem Shamrock-I didn't even realize that you had the BD. That sucks that it doesn't seem to be working for you-I'll buy it off you down the line if you want-or I'm sure you could easily sell it sooner here if you tried. How long is it? Also, do you have the silver pads yet? I would be VERY surprised if you didn't hear a difference with them-because it is a very dramatic change for the better (except for bassheads). But then again I would have thought the same thing for the BD based on others impressions here...
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: I assume you listened for differences with music as opposed to games? I'm sure any changes would be much easier to discern in that regard!


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I don't know shamrock, most impressions for it are dramatically positive-and you know it would improve the aesthetics as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did you happen to Kees your 900s, and are the silver pads actually constructed slightly different other than just color?  Some say that Kees helped a lot, while others say it essentially changed nothing for them.  Then you have some talking about the Denon J$ pads, which are not only supposed to be an incredible step up for comfort, but also isolation and the overall sound stage, especially the midrange and supposed bass issues. (I only say supposed, because I haven't heard them yet!)
   
  Quote: 





> *What are these things?*
> Our handmade lambskin Denon earpads are full replacement ear pads that add a touch of class to your existing headphones, while giving them an overall improvement in sound quality. By using premium lambskin leather, your headphones will not only look and smell better, but will sound better due to the fact that leather pads tend to clean up headphones that have issues with bass being too bloated and muddy. We find that the stock ear pads are too soft and thin, allowing the driver to be too close to one's ears, causing the bass to be bloated and too "in your face". So, to battle this issue, we have carefully selected a foam type that is firm enough to allow the drivers to sit further away from the user's ears, allowing more space for air to circulate. The actual pads themselves are much thicker than the stock ear pads at about 3.5cm tall on the thick side. This allows for a much better listening experience as the sound will be less fatiguing, will have MUCH better bass control, add clarity, and separation of instruments.


----------



## shamrock134

Yeah I tried them with tracks I'm quite familiar with. Maybe I just have fail ears, but I was really looking forward to the enhanced sub-bass others had mentioned with the BD.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't have the silver pads, but I'm not sure I want the Pro900 to be more balanced sounding. I like them how they are now and would use different headphones if I wanted better vocals or a more balanced presentation. I'm gonna be controversial and say the Pro900 does electronic better than the LCD-2 for my tastes.
   
  I do think we're getting waaay off-topic though and should probably keep this to the Pro900 thread!


----------



## BournePerfect

I never tried the Kees mod. Reason being is that after reading probably every Pro 900 thread on this site-I came to the conclusion that pretty much everybody who had fully burned in their Pro, did not benefit at all from the Kees. The concensus was that it was basically beneficial during the first few hundred hours of ownership. With that in mind, I burned mine in right when I got them for about 3 weeks straight, with a few breaks in between.
   
  The silver pads are definitely made differently than the black ones. They are a bit softer and spungier if you will, and much more comfortable imo. I never tried the J$s because I didn't want to mess with the sound that much. I believe colmustard has a few impressions with them...and his feelings seemed mixed about what they did to the sound-especially when used in conjunction with the silver pads Blue Dragon. Another user (can't remember who) seemed to really like the combination of the silver pads and the BD though, which is another reason I want to try that combo sometime-it's supposed to do wonders for bringing out the mids.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## BournePerfect

Did you notice any change in the other frequencies at all? Mainly less recessed mids or tamed highs? That's one area that never seemed to improve with my Pro was that the highs were always kinda harsh, and my ears never really adapted to them. That would be the main reason for me to get the BD, and also the supposed jump in transparency.
   
  One thing that has always bugged me, is that there is not really a consensus in regards to amping these things. Yes, it can be easy to drive blah blah...BUT. With these absolutely stiff titanium drivers, I'm wondering if ANY of us has heard these to their potential. I think we may eventually find out that these require some serious amping, much greater than what the specs would tell us. I wish I still had my AGD SA-2, as I feel that it would be an almost perfect match for these. 6 watts into the Pro 900s, overkill yes, but massive headroom. It is also a pretty musical amp, and has an all-around slightly softer tonality that I feel would perfectly round all of the harsh edges off the 900s, and help improve the metallic tonality of them as well...too bad it's discontinued lol.
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: How is this OT if we are discussing how to improve the BEST headphone for gaming?


----------



## shamrock134

I think I'm just an audio layman. There probably are differences that I'm just unable to discern.
   
  Also, I've tried it through all my amps, including my new FUN which probably outputs ~1.5W @ 40ohm and can't notice any significant differences. I fail lol


----------



## BournePerfect

Nah you're probably just spoiled by your other amazing 'phones in your sig and everything else sounds weak in comparison modded or not lol. I can readily tell a big difference in bass impact just between the E-9 and a couple of cheap usb amps (uDac-2 and DSS.)
   
  Tante: If you're looking at a DT 770 for gaming I think you would be best served by the 32 ohm version as it is not only the easiest to drive, but also has the least overbearing bass compared to the other ones! Read this for more details between them here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  -Daniel


----------



## shamrock134

One thing is clear, I have a headache right now from the Pro900 bass.
   
  How does one determine an adequate listening volume that isn't going to induce a headache or cause deafness? I find myself always wanting to turn it up louder as it sounds "better" that way, but then I get a headache!
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Regarding the DT770/32ohm, from a purely gaming perspective I found it performed worse than the AD700, HD598 and Pro900 for locating stuff from audio cues. Also, it seemed strangely insensitive for a 32ohm can marketed for use with portable players, requiring the volume to be turned up far higher than all of the others.


----------



## BournePerfect

I kinda figured it wouldn't make a very good gaming can myself, except maybe for single player. But maybe he has his mind set on them for some reason. They sure make a 'fun' music listening headphone though! My roommate had a pair for studio use, but I'm not sure what impedance they were. I actually liked them a lot more than the Denon D2000 as they were quite a bit more balanced and just as fun.
   
  You might wanna check out some spl meters to find some safe listening volumes. I don't know much in this area though. Also, do you have the silver pads, or just the black ones? You might like the change...at least once the black ones give you more headaches lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## shamrock134

My pair came with 2 sets of black pads, not really sure how to get the silver ones as they don't seem to have them on the Ultrasone site.
   
  I thought the DT770/32 was basically the Beyer MMX300 gaming headset without a mic so was expecting good tings!


----------



## Tante Pollewob

Thank you for the advice so far!
   
  I haven't really set my mind on any set of cans yet.
  It's just that i've seen those available in the 'local' store.
   
  The Pro 900's sound interesting.. but they sell for 450+ around here.
  Since I am a newbie to hi-fi audio, spending such an amount of money on headphones seems alot.


----------



## BournePerfect

The Pros go for about $320 here used. You can get them on ebay for roughly $350 pretty consistently.
   
  Shamrock I got lucky and traded my extra black pads from another member here. I've heard people here say you can get them from Ultrasone, but I never looked into it. Don't quote me on it, but I believe someone here said they are the same as the Pro 750 pads?? Maybe that's what to search for...
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Psychochink

So let's say for the sake of argument that you're inclined towards having terrible upgrade-itis and you're thinking about getting a _really _good pair of cans. *whistles nonchalantly*
   
  Said headphones would see the majority of their use to watch movies and will also be pressed into service to play games. Music comes a distant third. Given that, of the big boys, which would be the one to go for out of the:
  HD800
  LCD-2
  T1
  AH-D7000
  ATH-W5000
  PS1000
  Edition 8
   
  My gut tells me that the legendary soundstage of the HD800 would make them the 'ridiculously high-priced headphone of choice' for gaming. Thoughts?


----------



## Eric_C

But what does your gut say about their primary use for movies? Would that mean you want a bit more bassy rumble than the 800 typically provide?


----------



## maverickronin

If you watch all your movies from your PC (like I happen to do) it won't be hard to EQ all the bass you need in to the HD800s.  I've read they respond rather well to it.  If you don't, then the LCD-2 would be a lot better for movies since its bass is pretty much bottomless to begin with.
   
  OTOH, a decent hardware EQ will probably be cheaper than buying both 'phones and its a lot harder to add better soundstage with a DSP than it is to add bass with an EQ.


----------



## Psychochink

Hmmm...possibly, but on the other hand I've never been a huge bass guy - for example, I use AD900s as my portable phones, which most people find quite bass-anemic. While I admittedly could use a little more bass out of them, the soundstage more than makes up for it as far as I'm concerned - which is what makes me think that the HD800s might have the kind of signature that I'd prefer in the high-end cans.
   
  (Before it's said, I know my best bet is to go and listen to these in person, but it's just not an option. The last time I got to do that, there was a 2,500km flight involved.)
   
  Edit: maverickronin, that's what I was thinking, that bass could be added via a preamp/amp if need be.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'd get the Ed. 8 if it was mainly for movies and games.You still get regular S-Logic, a headphone that is driven easily,portable,  awesome bass for a great foundation for movies and games-and perhaps the sexiest headphone ever made! The T1 and HD800 might be better for games, but doubtful for movies imo. But of course I haven't heard any of them so TAKE THAT ha!
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: It's SOOOOOOO annoying to have to freaking reload this webpage in order to edit a post you JUST posted. Sorry that's pissed me off too many times to count, along with about a hundred other things this website can't seem to do properly. And no, I don't feel better. Yes I'm tired and grumpy.


----------



## Sanctuary

So my 900s arrived, and umm...either I received a defective pair, or these *really* require an amp.  I have them plugged into my PC and have both the MPC-HT volume as well as the system volume up to 100% and it's still approximately at a 30% overall lower volume than what I typically have it at.  I can hear everything just fine so far, and I already knew ahead of time that these had a different volume level than what most people may be used to when listening to headphones, but I typically have my system volume set to 25% - 30%.  There's a huge gulf happening.  Of course, the mix of the soundtrack also matters.  I have a few movies that sound "louder" by default.

 I'm also not honestly hearing the supposed awesome bass that's fantastic for some and overbearing to others.  It sounds *barely* like a step above my HD280s for bass, no lie. **edit** Ok, I am actually hearing some noticeable differences in certain parts ***  Seperation wise it's good, especially in Dolby Headphone--the virtual speakers definitely sound slightly more distant from one another.
   
  I wonder if it's a problem with the default screw in cables that came with them.  At first I tried using the straight cord--and I had also already read about the issues some people had with them and how to screw them in correctly--but it simply was not working right.  The screw threads never "locked" letting me know to stop screwing...it just kept turning.  After my fourth attempt, they finally screwed in correctly.  The coiled cord worked fine on my first attempt and with less pressure.
   
  No, I do not have silver pads--they don't come with any.  Even if I did, I am 100% sure those are not going to cause such a drastic shift in overall volume.  Also, if mine are actually working correctly and these really do have "too much" bass for some people--I have no idea what they are used to listening to.  Because it sounds like how the bass should sound with a properly equalized soundtrack for _movies and games_.  However, I do understand complaints about it making the mids muddy sounding.  Of course, since these are fresh out of the box, there has been literally no burn in--whether or not that's more than just a placebo effect or not remains to be seen though.  I can see how a better material for the pads would affect it though.  I think these leak too much, because when I press the headphones more against my ears, the bass really starts to shine MUCH MORE than with the default black pads.
   
  Heh--here's the song you play when you want to demo DNB and metal at the same time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg8NmZ3H0RA.  The 900s definitely do a good job with that, although the highs are quite sibilant or mechanical sounding.


----------



## jbg1

sup gamers 
   
  im looking to get a astros mix amp im thinking wireless. anyone against it? and can provide a good enough reason other than saving 10$ in getting the wired one. I currently have the razer chimaera 5.1 which runs 5.8 and it sounds clear and i hear no hiss or white noise...but im kind of headphone less now...so im looking to get the astros mixamp and get a pair of gaming headphones where i can switch between console gaming and laptop use like music, skype, youtube easily 
   
  my budget is 250$ including the astros mixamp which is 145 shipped...so a 100$ pair of headphones which i would prefer to buy on amazon cause i have credit to spend on there
   
  id want it 80% gaming 20% music, movies, and internet use i listen to hip hop when i do listen to music 
   
  id want it for mainly fps...mw2 the upcoming mw3 and bf3...it doesnt have to have a mic cause ill just purchase one of those clip ones and plug it to the mixamp but if it has one its a major plus


----------



## BournePerfect

*Sanctuary*:
   
      I can positively blow my eardrums out using an iPod...make sure the pads are actually screwed on tight because mine literally fell off once or twice. You might take them off and put them back on securely just to make sure. Just push in the entire cup at once, evenly, and twist clockwise to put them on. There's no way they shouldn't get extremely loud out of anything you plug them into. I don't know what kind of soundcard you're using or anything, but maybe the volume issue has something to do with that. Try them straight from an iPod and see how the volume is then. 
   
       Also, something tells me you were trying to screw in the wrong end of the cord for a while lol. Look at it-one end has threads to screw it into the cup) and the other is for the amp jack.It only takes minimal pressure to get it in, I can't believe people still have issues with that, sorry lol.
      
      And something is positively wrong if the bass is lacking-and I don't care if you're comparing it to Darths, LCD2s, XB500s, DT 990s or whatever. It hangs with all of those and bests most of them. Seriously...check and make sure the pads are all the ways on. If even one tab isn't securely fastened, it will drastically change the sound sig, and probably the overall volume.
   
      And let them burn in obviously. The biggest area of improvement that came from that, imo, is that the mids were brought forward a little more. They need a LOT of burn in (400 hours) to settle in, but there's a noticeable improvement after a day or two. Keep in mind the sibilance and metallic highs never went away for me, but I believe that's where a recable and more than likely a powerful, slightly warm amp would help the most.
   
   
*JBG1*:If your budget is at $100 for the headphones, then you have pretty much one option: the AD700s. End of story. Plus they are always available on Amazon for roughly $90.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jbg1 said:


> sup gamers
> 
> im looking to get a astros mix amp im thinking wireless. anyone against it? and can provide a good enough reason other than saving 10$ in getting the wired one. I currently have the razer chimaera 5.1 which runs 5.8 and it sounds clear and i hear no hiss or white noise...but im kind of headphone less now...so im looking to get the astros mixamp and get a pair of gaming headphones where i can switch between console gaming and laptop use like music, skype, youtube easily
> 
> ...


 

 I would stay away from the AD700s if you listen to hip hop.  Seriously.  You need at least _some _bass for that.  They're soundstage is phenomenal though.
   
  The wireless mixmap is fine.  Go with that.  I think the Astro A30 +mixamp 5.8 bundle might be good for you because they should have stronger bass for hip-hop and are good for switching back and forth from gaming/PC/Phone/Skype/etc.
  I've never heard them though, and there weakness would undoubtelly have to be their soundstage.  Some AVS forum people like them though, as well as akaTrent who has heard his fair share of gaming headsets
   
  You could go for those Refurbed PC360s  (^previous page or so) if they still have them.


----------



## BournePerfect

I agree the AD700s are terrible for pretty much anything other than classical imo, but he did say these are primarily (80%) for gaming.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> *Sanctuary*:
> 
> I can positively blow my eardrums out using an iPod...make sure the pads are actually screwed on tight because mine literally fell off once or twice. You might take them off and put them back on securely just to make sure. Just push in the entire cup at once, evenly, and twist clockwise to put them on. There's no way they shouldn't get extremely loud out of anything you plug them into. I don't know what kind of soundcard you're using or anything, but maybe the volume issue has something to do with that. Try them straight from an iPod and see how the volume is then.
> 
> ...


 


  You can't screw in the wrong end of the cord.  Like I said, I already knew ahead of time what to look for due to the other issues people had already posted.  There's only one threaded end.  The issue is that you have to jam the plug up almost to the point in where you would be pushing the protective plastic into the hole, scraping it.  I posted more about the issues I'm having in the dedicated 900 thread.  I've had them plugged into my PC, directly into my Cowon S9 and my Pioneer box.  The Cowon gets plenty loud at 35% and my PC between 50% - 100% (really depends on the soundtrack).  Volume is the least of my concerns with these headphones though.  I also knew about the ear pad issue--they are both securely in place.

 As far as gaming goes, they have excellent positional qualities--but that's about the only thing I can really praise them for.  Much of the subtle nuances are covered up by a huge quilt.  I've also seen elsewhere about how these function better with a tube amp, but good tube amps are not cheap.  And again, it's quite ridiculous to have to spend a minor fortune just to make certain headphones sound good when you could have just picked up a better pair for less overall cost.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well it sounds like you've done your research...which also means you know to burn them in...considerably. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 With that in mind, give them a few days of constant burn-in and see what you think. Mine definitely sounded their worst right out of the box with quite an improvement just a day later (constant burn in) iirc. However, the bass was incredible out of the box, but a few users have mentioned here that the bass tends to pull a disappearing act sometimes during burn-in. These headphones really reminded me of my K702-out of the box I_ hated _them (moreso with the AKG though), but both developed into some of my _favorite_ headphones after substantial physical (not cognitive) burn in! Burn them in LOUD too, that seems to help more ime.These 2 headphones WILL make you see the effects of burn in, with these at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## zebus

Ok I've just finished reading through this whole thread, and am still having trouble coming to a conclusion. I'm a college student soon to be making the move from a rent house to an apartment, so I'm going to have to ween myself off of my wall shaking stereo setup and start using headphones for my movies, music, and gaming.. and I was hoping to find one for everything if possible. Gaming is the most important aspect, but dont want to sacrifice too much in other areas. I listen to a pretty wide variety of music, including dubstep, so bass performance is important.

So far from what I've read, the 990s or Pro900s seem like my best bet, but still a few things that concern me. Whenever I'm gaming I'm usually also on ventrilo, whether its related to the game or not. Will the focus on bass and treble of these sets drown out voice chat, I dont want something where I have to turn game volume to a whisper just to here what people are saying. Also whatever I get I will be using for a lot, so it needs to be something that stays comfortable over long periods.

So are one of these want I want, or should I look elsewhere? Would I be better off getting something just for games/movies and using something else for music? The only other high end thing I own are IE8s and I love them if that helps.


----------



## Sanctuary

Just an update for clarification: the 900s sound _really good_ when amplified.  I've been able to hear what they sound like with a pseudo headphone amp, and there's a world of difference between hooking them up to onboard sound, or directly to an MP3 player, or even a DAC/Amp combo (less with this, but still has an effect) compared to amping them or having a dedicated sound card.  Some people have made claims that they sound good without amping, and maybe they do later on down the road--but they sure as hell benefit from an amp initially.

 For just games, these are absolutely phenomenal.  For movies (so far) there's still some up and down volume adjusting for dialogue, but everything else sounds stellar--especially punches and explosions.  Whoever said explosions sound like explosions wasn't exaggerating--they have to be heard to be believed.


----------



## An Artist

Hello everybody, my first post! 
   
  Mad Lust Envy told in his review that Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and Sennheiser PC 360 are the best for gaming. But can you tell which one is better?
   
  Of cource PC 360 has a mic but let's not focus on that. PC 360 is also quite a bit more expensive, but may fit better for me because I don't a have a big head. (I've heard that AD700 is a very large headset and isn't comfortable for smaller heads...)
   
  But what I want to hear is that which one has better audio for fps-gaming. I'm looking for the best.


----------



## TMRaven

It's meant to be very large.  My head is of average size I feel (around 23inches circumference above the ears) and the AD700 fits very loosely.  I'd describe them as being ill-fitting, but extremely comfortable.  You get use to the loose, wonky fit after a while, and they become extremely comfortable.
   
  I personally found the AD700 to have a bit of front/rear positioning trouble compared to something like the DT990.  Compared to higher end cans, the AD700 also sound rather off-timbre overall as well, but their soundstage remains ridiculously large and spacious even with DH.  I can't comment on the PC 360.


----------



## BournePerfect

Best at their price points? Sure. Best over all? Hell no.
   
  -Daniel
  
  Quote: 





an artist said:


> Hello everybody, my first post!
> 
> Mad Lust Envy told in his review that Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and Sennheiser PC 360 are the best for gaming. But can you tell which one is better?
> 
> ...


----------



## matthewh133

Just purchased a HD598, now going to have to wait 2 weeks for it to arrive. Been playing CSS on 2.1 speakers ever since selling my AD900 months ago so it will be awesome to get that advantage back again.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> It's meant to be very large.  My head is of average size I feel (around 23inches circumference above the ears) and the AD700 fits very loosely.  I'd describe them as being ill-fitting, but extremely comfortable.  You get use to the loose, wonky fit after a while, and they become extremely comfortable.


 

 Wow, really? I thought my AD300 fit too loosely, which is why I sold it off.


----------



## JCDenton2052

The DT 880 Premium sounds fantastic, very neutral sounds, but i think i may need a touch more bass for some of the games i have in my collection. Has anyone had any experience with the DT 880 Pro (250)? If so how is the bass for this model? Is it just as 'bloated' as the DT 770 Pro? Hope someone can clear that up for me.


----------



## Eric_C

I have the DT 880 Premium (250) and the bass is just fine. I was playing inFamous 1 last night, and the explosions are certainly loud enough, plus the closing track at the end of the game was plenty thumpy for me. What are you using to drive your 880? And what headphone would you consider to have sufficient bass?


----------



## JCDenton2052

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I have the DT 880 Premium (250) and the bass is just fine. I was playing inFamous 1 last night, and the explosions are certainly loud enough, plus the closing track at the end of the game was plenty thumpy for me. What are you using to drive your 880? And what headphone would you consider to have sufficient bass?


 

 I have a Xonar Essence STX Sound Card with the Texas Instruments TPA6120A2 headphone amplifier built onto the card. There is also an extra MOLEX power connector to power high impedance heaphones, at least i think thats what it's for. This is the thing, im not entirely sure myself what i think has sufficient bass. The last pair of headphones i owned were some Speedlink Medusa 7.1 (yeah tell me about it) but i never rated the sound quality or the bass, they were just awful to use over long periods as well. I sold those and now im in the market for some proper headphones with some punchy bass and excellent sound quality. I need bass due to the music i listen to, mainly Drum and Bass and Jungle, and also the games i play. They aren't all FPS' but i would like the bass to have some weight to it rather than sounding like a tin can.
   
  I have done a lot of reading over the last week and i'm really struggling to decide. I may just bite the bullet and get the much cheaper DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm. The place where i can get them offer a 30-day money back guarantee so if i feel it has too much bass and lacking sound quality i can return them and try something else.
   
  Right now im reading a lot and constantly changing my mind at the last minute. I think i just need to buy and try. As the DT 770 Pro is within my budget it's seeming like a win-win. Some say the bass is too bloated but maybe i can tame it with the EQ if i decide it's too over powered. Would that be possible?


----------



## Eric_C

Based on what I keep reading here, if you can get parametric EQ it seems fairly certain that you can tame or boost bass (or any other section of the frequency range, for that matter). Therein lies the problem/solution: if you can EQ bass out of one headphone, why can't you EQ bass into the one you already have? 
   
  For sure, we're not talking about turning the DT 880 into an XB 500 with EQ, but have you tried EQ-ing to add some of the bass that seems missing?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hi guys, I am looking for a pair of headphones which also sound good without an amp. I'm going to connect them to my X-Fi Champion Front Panel and Mixamp 5.8 wireless incl. voice audio.
  I tried the PC360 but I miss the soundstage of the K701s, it's much wider and everything is clearer (Xonar Essence STX).
   
  Which pair do you recommend from 100-250$?


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I have the DT 880 Premium (250) and the bass is just fine. I was playing inFamous 1 last night, and the explosions are certainly loud enough, plus the closing track at the end of the game was plenty thumpy for me. What are you using to drive your 880? And what headphone would you consider to have sufficient bass?


 


  Do you have that odd rear positioning issue that MLE had with his DT880's?


----------



## JCDenton2052

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Based on what I keep reading here, if you can get parametric EQ it seems fairly certain that you can tame or boost bass (or any other section of the frequency range, for that matter). Therein lies the problem/solution: if you can EQ bass out of one headphone, why can't you EQ bass into the one you already have?
> 
> For sure, we're not talking about turning the DT 880 into an XB 500 with EQ, but have you tried EQ-ing to add some of the bass that seems missing?


 
   
  Yeah i don't think i have a Parametric EQ let alone what one is. If i am going to get the 770 Pro's then i won't be messing with taking the bass out, if it's too powerful i will most likely try to make it slightly less powerful. Only slightly but I don't know. It's something that i will have to mess around with once i get them. Im leaning towards those as they are much cheaper than the DT 880's and i can always return them within 30 days if im not happy. If i do end up returning them (but im guessing i will love them) i will then try the 880's. I'm pretty annoyed that there isn't an audio shop i can go into and try different models out.
   
  I haven't tried adding bass or messing with it as i have no headphones yet. Hopefully by next week i will have a pair.


----------



## Ricanlegend

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Hi guys, I am looking for a pair of headphones which also sound good without an amp. I'm going to connect them to my X-Fi Champion Front Panel and Mixamp 5.8 wireless incl. voice audio.
> I tried the PC360 but I miss the soundstage of the K701s, it's much wider and everything is clearer (Xonar Essence STX).
> 
> Which pair do you recommend from 100-250$? The HD598 they got amazing soundstage


----------



## AudioRook

Great guide! Thanks!


----------



## nsk1

Great thread even though I read 13 pages out of 130 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I wanna know if anyone tried to use Fostex T50RP for gaming, these are orthos so I guess amping would be necessary, but you could mod them to your own taste.


----------



## Draygonn

Great thread guys. Due to this thread I've upgraded from a surround headset to DT880/600s and an E9. Obviously a major improvement. I Didn't realize you could get surround from stereo headphones before coming here.


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Hi guys, I am looking for a pair of headphones which also sound good without an amp. I'm going to connect them to my X-Fi Champion Front Panel and Mixamp 5.8 wireless incl. voice audio.
> I tried the PC360 but I miss the soundstage of the K701s, it's much wider and everything is clearer (Xonar Essence STX).
> 
> Which pair do you recommend from 100-250$?


 


  HD598 or ATH-AD900.


----------



## MohawkUS

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> HD598 or ATH-AD900.


 


   
  I'm going to have to disagree with this, the HD598 needs an amp, and the AD900 does not have a clear soundstage IMO, it is big, but it sounds congested at the same time, although it is a good choice if you have to go without an amp.


----------



## Eric_C

Scytus: yes, but bear in mind I do not game with Dolby. So on stereo in single player games, eg when there is a chopper hovering at one location, the front positioning is clearly more realistic than rear. 

JCDenton2052: wait I thought you already have the DT 880? and how were you planning to tame the bass of the 770 without EQ?


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with this, the HD598 needs an amp, and the AD900 does not have a clear soundstage IMO, it is big, but it sounds congested at the same time, although it is a good choice if you have to go without an amp.


 

 Are you serious? The AD900 has an incredible sound stage.. never sounded congested to me. The HD598 can be run without an amp and still sound awesome. Sure, with an amp it will make it a little better, but it's not a HUGE improvement like amping a HD650.


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Scytus: yes, but bear in mind I do not game with Dolby. So on stereo in single player games, eg when there is a chopper hovering at one location, the front positioning is clearly more realistic than rear.


 


  I understand, thank you for your input. You stating the DT-880's having that issue in stereo, and MLE stating it is also present in dolby, discourages me from that purchase. Unfortunately (wallet-wise), the only headphone that leaves me is the T1, as I'm looking for a can that doesn't leak as much as open cans do, but does have a similar wide soundstage. I was considering the DT990's, but the painful highs/recessed mids people speak of discouraged me from that purchase as well. That, and it's fully open, leaking far more sound than I would like.


----------



## Eric_C

Glad to be of some help Scytus. I can understand how important that rear positioning cue is to you if you play competitively, even though I don't.
   
  Beyer T1 is open though; surely it would leak? Maybe you could look into the T5p? It's closed and has been considered by some to be a portable, closed equivalent of the T1 (not my words, never tried T1). Plus if you can afford the T1, you can surely afford the T5p.


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Glad to be of some help Scytus. I can understand how important that rear positioning cue is to you if you play competitively, even though I don't.
> 
> Beyer T1 is open though; surely it would leak? Maybe you could look into the T5p? It's closed and has been considered by some to be a portable, closed equivalent of the T1 (not my words, never tried T1). Plus if you can afford the T1, you can surely afford the T5p.


 

  
  I've read horrid things of the T5p, and another user told me of its extremely odd "R" shape audio curve; which I wasn't even able to comprehend. From everything I've read, the T5p seems to be a disappointment.
   
  The T1 itself is classified as "semi-open", which is just at that level of leaking that I'm willing to accept (I just don't want to bother others in the hallway/other rooms with the sound). I've also tested out the T1's for a while, and fell absolutely in love with its signature. I admit I can see myself wanting just a little more bass, but I'd sacrifice that desire for the rest of the tonality/soundstage it presented. 
   
  I can't exactly afford the T1.. I'd have to save up a bit. That, and I plan to hopefully buy used x]


----------



## Eric_C

LOL at "R" shaped audio curve. Should've asked if he meant upper or lower case.
   
  Anyway, the T1 being "semi-open" should be read as "open". Case in point: the DT 880 is "semi-open" but is effectively open; fortunately none of this means that you'll ever bother someone in the next room with your music/games, so don't worry about that.
   
  Edit: Just dawned on me that there is a small chance you were thinking of T50p when I mentioned T5p. The T50p got plenty of flak for being subpar; the T5p is different: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/499215/beyerdynamic-t5p-photos-and-first-impressions


----------



## MohawkUS

Quote: 





matthewh133 said:


> Are you serious? The AD900 has an incredible sound stage.. never sounded congested to me. The HD598 can be run without an amp and still sound awesome. Sure, with an amp it will make it a little better, but it's not a HUGE improvement like amping a HD650.


 


   
  Yes, the AD900 has an incredible sound stage, but when you start playing heavier music through it just blurs everything together, it is airy, but it lacks in seperation. The 598 I ran through onboard sound, maybe if you were using a DAC it could work ampless, but through onboard it was lacking in power: boomy bass, grainyness, and no energy at all, the soundstage was incredible though.


----------



## Scytus

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> LOL at "R" shaped audio curve. Should've asked if he meant upper or lower case.
> 
> Anyway, the T1 being "semi-open" should be read as "open". Case in point: the DT 880 is "semi-open" but is effectively open; fortunately none of this means that you'll ever bother someone in the next room with your music/games, so don't worry about that.
> 
> Edit: Just dawned on me that there is a small chance you were thinking of T50p when I mentioned T5p. The T50p got plenty of flak for being subpar; the T5p is different: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/499215/beyerdynamic-t5p-photos-and-first-impressions


 

 ...yep, he meant lower case. so "r" x]


----------



## matthewh133

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Yes, the AD900 has an incredible sound stage, but when you start playing heavier music through it just blurs everything together, it is airy, but it lacks in seperation. The 598 I ran through onboard sound, maybe if you were using a DAC it could work ampless, but through onboard it was lacking in power: boomy bass, grainyness, and no energy at all, the soundstage was incredible though.


 
   
  Fair enough, from memory I don't remember experiencing the soundstage issues with heavier music that you say you have. Different ears obviously. I had nothing but praise for them at their range range, pretty hard to beat IMO. The HD598 I've never ran off onboard so I could not say. I have used it off a Auzentech Forte soundcard, which has a little amplification and it sounded great.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Thank you guys,
   
  anything better than the HD598 that doesn't require an amp (like AKG K701) and has a huge soundstage (similar to the AKG/AD700)?


----------



## MohawkUS

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Thank you guys,
> 
> anything better than the HD598 that doesn't require an amp (like AKG K701) and has a huge soundstage (similar to the AKG/AD700)?


 

  
  I would check out an open pair of Ultrasones, they don't have a huge soundstage, but the positioning is amazing, If you want the airy feel you won't get it, but for gaming positioning > air


----------



## JCDenton2052

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> JCDenton2052: wait I thought you already have the DT 880? and how were you planning to tame the bass of the 770 without EQ?


 

 Nope, don't have any headphones at the minute. I was looking at the DT 880 but I hadn't fully decided mainly due to how much they cost and what I have available funds wise. As it's going to be my first proper pair of headphones I may as well start out with something a bit cheaper. The DT 770's sound great for the price; I would love some 880's but maybe for another time. There is an EQ with the Audio Centre of the Essence STX. Like I said I won't be making major changes, it just depends how they sound to my ears. If I like them out of the box then I will leave them and enjoy them. If they need tweaking I will mess around with the settings until it sounds better.
   
  Got to start somewhere and i think the 770's will suffice. I'm confident i will like them.


----------



## Eric_C

First headphone, and you want to use them for gaming? Sans mic?
  Is the Senn PC 360 not being considered?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys, been awhile. Kinda stepped away from audiophilia in general and have been happy with the little that I have now. I honestly don't use headphones outside of gaming use, which is a major reason why I downsized so much.

Let me play catch up.

HD598 - NEEDS an amp. I won't stress this enough. It's not as sensitive as people lead you to believe. For gaming use, the Mixamp will be fine.

32ohm Beyers are VERY insensitive for that ohm rating, and will also benefit quite a bit from amping. Seriously felt it needed almost as much as the 600ohm, though didn't distort the way the 600ohm did with underamping.

DT770 Pro 80 - Unless you love a whopping amount of bass, you might wanna skip this. It has a LOT of sub bass, you've been warned. Outside of the bass bloat, yes it performs amazingly well with Dolby Headphone. Easiest in terms of locating rear positioning. Actually felt it didn't require as MUCH amping as the 32ohm Beyers. Mind does not compute.

Wireless Mixamp - Just as good as the wired Mixamp (though it does have minor hiss at loud volumes, the wired one doesn't, though it's a non-issue for the most part), but quite costly. MAKE SURE to buy the Astro rechargeable battery pack. Just....trust me. This thing eats batteries, and non-astro branded rechargeables won't charge via USB. Save yourself the hassle.


These recommendations for those not inclined to read the first page:

For MOSTLY gaming:

Headset: PC360 (seriously, if you need a mic'd headset, this is worth it).

Headphone: HD598 (I recommend it over the K701 due to it not needing the supah juice the way the AKG K70x does, but outside of gaming, you will want amping)

Gaming Amps: Mixamp or AX720


Don't expect a reply, since I'm not really active on this forum anymore. My last post prior to this one was almost 20 days ago, so there you have it...


----------



## JCDenton2052

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> First headphone, and you want to use them for gaming? Sans mic?
> Is the Senn PC 360 not being considered?


 

 Not just for gaming, for listening to music and general entertainment on my PC. I was looking at the PC 360, a friend at work has them and rates them but i do not require a mic'd headset. He is more of a competitive gamer unlike myself. If i game online i do it for my own enjoyment and not to get the best score in the round. The bass is lacking on the 360's, i will need something with a little more bass. Sounds like the 770 has a load more bass, maybe too much. Reason why i'm leaning to those is the price and the fact i can return them before the 30 days is up if im not happy with them.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I would check out an open pair of Ultrasones, they don't have a huge soundstage, but the positioning is amazing, If you want the airy feel you won't get it, but for gaming positioning > air


 


  Hi,
   
  I don't need the most accurate positioning, it's more about total immersion in singleplayer. The K701 delivers that pretty good but I can't have an amp everywhere unfortunately.


----------



## mafiamike

What cable do I need to connect my astro mixamp to the fiio e9 ?  So xbox 360 then mixamp(optical) then E9 and headphones. The headphone out on the astro to the E9 via 3.5 mm cable? I have to go to work right now so I cant google it. thanks mike.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> What cable do I need to connect my astro mixamp to the fiio e9 ?  So xbox 360 then mixamp(optical) then E9 and headphones. *The headphone out on the astro to the E9 via 3.5 mm cable?*


 


  Yes, that.


----------



## matryx

So I returned my Sennheiser HD558. They were alright but I wanted something with more bass. I'm now looking at the DT770 Pro-80. I can get them new on ebay for $180 shipped to Canada. The lowest I found here was at Long and Mcquade but they don't have any stock and cost $200 + 13% taxes. Is $180 a good deal for the DT770 Pro-80?


----------



## mafiamike

Sorry for all the noob questions, I got it hooked up so do I put E9 on high gain? and crank the volume up on the E9 plus mixamp? I have the E9 at 1200-100 oclock and mixamp at 1100 oclock. I'm a nooooob! Thanks again Mike. I have the dt 990's too.


----------



## Eric_C

Hi mafiamike:
  The gain setting is determined by the headphones you're using. In this case, your DT 990 has an impedance of 250 Ω right? High gain should be just fine. 
  (Keep it on low for in-ears)
   
  The MixAmp should be cranked more than that--try going for 60% to 80%. Normally you'd have everything before the final amp (in this case, the E9) at full, but I remember folks in this thread saying you'll want the MixAmp at a little less than that for this particular pairing. 
  Just in case you're not used to powering up a system with amps and stuff, here's the safest step-by-step, to avoid damaging any components:
  1. Plug everything in. The 360 to the MixAmp to the E9 to the headphones.
  2. Make sure your E9 and MixAmp volume dials are at 0%.
  3. Power up the 360.
      i) If the MixAmp has an on/off switch, power up the MixAmp next.
      ii) If the E9 has an on/off switch, power up the E9 next.
  4. Dial the MixAmp to 60-80%.
  5. Run a game and dial the E9 to whatever volume you're comfortable with.


----------



## mafiamike

Thanks for the response, I'll try it out tonight. All these headphones, amps and cables are new to me.


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't need the most accurate positioning, it's more about total immersion in singleplayer. The K701 delivers that pretty good but I can't have an amp everywhere unfortunately.


 

 [No sarcasm] Isn't accurate positioning a component of total immersion?  I can understand how factors such as the overall soundstage or tonal quality would be more important, but having an exceptional _and precise_ surround field just adds even more to the experience.  Otherwise, Prologic, or even just stereo should suffice.


----------



## MohawkUS

The PRO2900 is the best I have heard immersion wise, what it does in Fallout NV is jaw dropping, the ambient sounds sound so lifelike you won't want to fast travel anymore.


----------



## kiteki

Interesting thread!
   
  Does anyone play music/rhythm games here?


----------



## MohawkUS

I've played a good share of Audiosurf and Beat Hazard.


----------



## kiteki

I haven't tried those yet, Audiosurf looks cool.
   
  The thing is Audiosurf is just listening to music, I play Lunatic Rave 2, and in that game the music is keysounded, which means you hit notes flowing down the screen and each note makes a sound, the notes range from 100 to 2000 (depending on difficulty) and the song length is around 1 1/2 to 2 minutes, I find IEM's with good imaging and speed make Lunatic Rave 2 (LR2) a more enjoyable - and accurate - experience.
   
  For anyone into gaming, music, and quality HP's/IEM's, I recommend LR2.  It's a hassle to set up and takes a while to learn but it's worth it =) It's free, but it's actually a clone of an arcade game, here's a video of the best player in the world at it


----------



## jbg1

i purchased my 5.8 mixamp this weekend  now time to find some headphones 
   
  i know i said 100$ limit i could stretch it to 150 
   
  but would you pick the hd555 or the ad700...i would do the mod on the 555 (hope i dont mess anything up lol) i would the headphones to be great for gaming but i needed to use them for a movie or music that they would be fine also, you guys said the ad700 is only good for gaming


----------



## chowbabyloving

You can probably get used PC360s for around that much.
  Quote: 





jbg1 said:


> i purchased my 5.8 mixamp this weekend  now time to find some headphones
> 
> i know i said 100$ limit i could stretch it to 150
> 
> but would you pick the hd555 or the ad700...i would do the mod on the 555 (hope i dont mess anything up lol) i would the headphones to be great for gaming but i needed to use them for a movie or music that they would be fine also, you guys said the ad700 is only good for gaming


----------



## Haeleus

Can anyone comment on sound quality with the Senn PC360 headset? Both this and the HD 598s are available at my local store for the same price and I'm curious how they compare. The reason I want to know is because if the sound quality is comparable I'd rather get the headset than have to mess around with getting an extra microphone (these headphones are to be for computer use and I do a lot of gaming/voip on a regular basis). Note that I don't really care about "positional" audio for games, I'm more concerned with musical quality. Also, I'm only concerned with PC360 vs HD598 since I can get them locally, so please don't give me other recommendations.

 (I already got my 598s today and they sound great, but since I can return them for full price to the store maybe tomorrow I'll just pick up the PC360 and compare them for myself before returning one.)


----------



## flyingbangus

....and if you plan to chat/voip/whathaveyou, get the PC/PS3 chat cable as well. I missed that with my purchase, and have had to do a separate order via ebay -- I skype with friends regularly when playing SC2.   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Wireless Mixamp - Just as good as the wired Mixamp (though it does have minor hiss at loud volumes, the wired one doesn't, though it's a non-issue for the most part), but quite costly. *MAKE SURE to buy the Astro rechargeable battery pack*. Just....trust me. This thing eats batteries, and non-astro branded rechargeables won't charge via USB. Save yourself the hassle.


 
   
   
  Interested in this as well. I've been using a separate wireless mic, but would love an integrated setup and my first open-back can as well. To be honest I'd pull the trigger immediately if a good sale comes up.
  Quote: 





haeleus said:


> Can anyone comment on sound quality with the Senn PC360 headset?


----------



## kiteki

Just wanted to show off this game again in case anyone missed it.
  Quote: 





kiteki said:


> Edit: this guy has probably been playing this game every day for the last 7 years or so.
> 
> Those machines have headphone jacks on them. =p


----------



## Poseidon

Quote: 





haeleus said:


> Can anyone comment on sound quality with the Senn PC360 headset? Both this and the HD 598s are available at my local store for the same price and I'm curious how they compare. The reason I want to know is because if the sound quality is comparable I'd rather get the headset than have to mess around with getting an extra microphone (these headphones are to be for computer use and I do a lot of gaming/voip on a regular basis). Note that I don't really care about "positional" audio for games, I'm more concerned with musical quality. Also, I'm only concerned with PC360 vs HD598 since I can get them locally, so please don't give me other recommendations.
> 
> (I already got my 598s today and they sound great, but since I can return them for full price to the store maybe tomorrow I'll just pick up the PC360 and compare them for myself before returning one.)


 

  
  Please give a update if you decide to try PC360 also. It would be interesting to know how they compare.


----------



## Haeleus

Alright, so I tried both the PC360 and HD598 side by side, and I'll try to briefly describe it (I'm not an audiophile nor am I very technical with describing sound so here goes =P). NOTE: I am testing these using the onboard sound of my ASUS Sabertooth P67 motherboard, so no amp or other specialized equipment.
   
  Basically, the sound quality from both cans is pretty much on par, especially considering that the PC360's drivers apparently match those of the HD595 predecessor. Both highs and mids are very clear and sound strong to me due to the large soundstage of having such large cans. In short, there isn't any range of sound that I feel is underrepresented or muddled by either set. As for bass, here we get into the major difference that I notice, where the HD598 clearly wins. There is a lot more "punch" in the lows with these headphones; while the PC360, though still having very noticeable bass, just doesn't have that same kick that I feel with the 598s on. Neither set has the same heavy bass as perhaps a closed headphone, but for an open design both sets are at least adequately respectable. Additionally, I find the 598s to be much more comfortable because, while both sets have the same cup size, the 360 pads are much harder and, at least for now out of the box, take some getting used to. Also, keep in mind that the PC360 is an open headset true to its claim, and as such does leak just as much sound to the outside as the 598s. However, when voiping I haven't heard any complaints from others of hearing my music through the mic unless, of course, I blasted it at the highest volumes and didn't use push-to-talk.
   
  That being said, the PC360 has the benefit of the mic, which I most certainly need on a daily basis. It is very clear when using on ventrilo and in game (as my online friends have already attested to), but it is a little quiet, though enabling a minor boost in the Windows sound options does the trick without resulting in unbearable static.
   
*So here's my dilemma*: just looking at the sound quality for music, I'm inclined to stay with the 598s. The PC360 is still more than acceptable for me, and as a gaming headset is unmatched by others of its kind in terms of comfort and sound quality outside of the game, but I would be hard pressed to give up my 598s either way. However, if this is my final decision, then I also need to get me a reliable microphone, so I have to ask you guys if anyone can recommend a decent one. I was thinking of getting a clip-on mic such the Zalman which I've heard mentioned plenty of times on several forums, but I've heard both good and bad things about it so if anyone has experience please share. The other option would be the get a good desktop mic, but I'd rather not because I prefer some mobility (aka not having to speak directly into the mic) and I really don't want to shell out another $100 to get one of those fancy USB Snowball mics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey, to give some love to RazorDog! Deals (there are some of us who were able to score Senn PC360's for $180 off them, myself included), go to their facebook page and like them. I wouldn't advertise for them just because, but they really did help a lot of us out with their low prices for the PC360 (they are also authorized).

They're giving away HD59s this month, and are giving away headphones every month... so you guys might wanna look into that, as they are stellar gaming cans. Just gotta enter the sweepstakes on that page every month, only have to like their page once.

http://www.facebook.com/razordogdeals?sk=app_130529100359113


----------



## Haeleus

I was contemplating originally buying from Razerdog via Ebay, seeing as they are an authorized dealer. However, I wanted the safety net of being able to return my headphones without hassle if I deemed that they weren't for me. Also, living in Canada, I would have to deal with extra shipping and brokerage costs to get them here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think anyone would be disappointed in the PC360s. Near perfect balance, great positioning, and soundstage. Unlesss you want emphasis in certain regions (like MOAR BASSSSSADADADAldnhueuhfuiasdfjkl), the PC360 should be pretty much the best headset with no need to tweak.


----------



## Haeleus

I've made my choice, I'm sticking with the PC360s. After all is said and done, they offer great sound and the utility of a mic on hand, which together trump the appeal of the HD598s in my opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Exactly. I'm pretty positive you'll be quite happy with them.


----------



## Haeleus

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Exactly. I'm pretty positive you'll be quite happy with them.


 


  Yup. Probably in the future when I have some extra cash lying around I'll invest in a decent headphone amp to really make them sound fantastic.
   
  Hmm, curious, would the 598 pads fit the PC360? They are very very comfortable, I'll have to try fitting them on =P


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't try that, so sorry, I dunno. the shape does seem pretty much the same, so it wouldn't hurt to try. I know the PC360's pads 'snap' off. I didn't remove the HD598's.


----------



## Rebel975

I just want to come in here to say that the Ultrasone PRO 2900 has been an amazingly good headphone for gaming, whether it be through a Mixamp/Xbox combo or Xonar Essence ST. They're a bit expensive for the average gamer, but so worth it I thought. Very easy to mod a microphone onto them too.


----------



## mafiamike

Hello gamers, I am still new to headphones but what a difference it makes when you play online with them. I am still searching for the best headphones for my ears only. I have dt 990's(600ohm) with the fiio e9(starter amp for now) and mixamp which sounds pretty good on xbox 360.. I really like the high treble and the bass they put out. These are great for hearing footsteps clearly on blk ops/mw2 but could be better for postional accrucy which brings me to my question. Now, I am not trying to brag about the headphones I have but trying to find awesome headphones just for gaming online only. I have three choices, AKG Q701's, HD 598 and the almighty 360's. I dont need a mic and its probally overkill with these headphones but I like quality sound, well not the hd 800's quality( too expensive). I searched this thread/AVS plus looked up amps too. I like crystal clear treble and the most important attribute is positonal accrucy. BASS is not a priorty so which one of these cans would fit the bill? I am leaning towards the Q701's and I there are the ultrasones I am reading about too. So audiophiles, help me choose the best one or convince me to buy different ones. Thanks again Mike.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the Q701 is very close to the K701 (I do hear the Q's have a little more bass, and I don't know how that will affect gaming), they are stellar. However, you literally won't need anything but the HD598 or PC360 for accuracy. The HD598 is slightly clearer, and if you don't need a mic, that would be my recommendation. The AKGs are god mode for me too, but some people don't like that the soundstage is that ridiculously large because apparently they can't pinpoint sounds well. I never had that problem.


----------



## 185717

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If the Q701 is very close to the K701 (I do hear the Q's have a little more bass, and I don't know how that will affect gaming), they are stellar. However, you literally won't need anything but the HD598 or PC360 for accuracy. The HD598 is slightly clearer, and if you don't need a mic, that would be my recommendation. The AKGs are god mode for me too, but some people don't like that the soundstage is that ridiculously large because apparently they can't pinpoint sounds well. I never had that problem.


 


 nice 
   
   
  EDIT: Just read the first page... nice review mate. Keep it up


----------



## Raguvian

I really enjoyed your reviews, thanks!
   
  I decided to dust off my KSC75's after your recommendation, and I really like them for gaming! I was able to hear spies uncloaking in TF2, and the medic's medigun syringes were easy to pinpoint as well. Didn't expect that from these cheap headphones.
   
  Although, hopefully in the next few days I'll get my AD900's, so the KSC75's will go back to dust-collecting.


----------



## CheesusCrust

My friend is recommending the V MODA Crossfades, are they better the A700s I just ordered?


----------



## JCDenton2052

Bought some headphones (at last) and got them in last week. I went with the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 Ohm, and I must say for my first pair of studio headphones I am very impressed with them. They are a superb all rounder, which is just what I wanted. They work well with many of my Jungle and DnB tracks as well as gaming with Dolby Headphone. Quite possibly the comfiest headphones I have ever tried and the lightest. After just 30mins of gaming I feel so immersed it blew me away. I was so impressed by them i'm going through my back catalogue of games purely for audio enjoyment. Thats is a win-win. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Music sounds superb to me with these headphones. The bass is just right for what I wanted, it's not 'blow your head off bass' it just sounds and feels right to me. I was expecting an overload of bass with the headphones vibrating a lot, but they sound superb in any scenario. I have had them vibrate a little but I loved it and it sounded great. The only time I have had the bass trouble other sounds is with tracks that have a low, deep (not sure how to word this) bass line. I don't have many of those in my music so this is no problem.
   
  Just thought i would share my experience as this thread was responsible for my purchase, amongst others. Thanks to all the guys that helped me out at Head-Fi. I am extremely happy with my purchase and can't wait for another session with these babies.
  Cheers all!


----------



## majnu

Hi
   
  Can someone help me on the questions I posted in this thread please?
   
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/566202/sennheiser-hd595-mic-modification-gaming


----------



## majnu

Desperation calls folks
   
  Please Help!


----------



## Chaay

Hey guys, I am starting college in two weeks and need a pair of gaming headphones that won't disturb my roommate. I need something under $100 and am totally confused what to buy. I have never owned a pair of headphones in my life and hope I can get help here. I am looking for recommendations, you don't need to read the details  below the italics if you don't want.
   
_Budget: $100_
_Setup: Xbox 360 - Video: Computer Monitor - Sound: Integrated Sound Card_
_Type of Gaming: A balanced mix of multiplayer and singleplayer_
_Requirements: Must not disturb roommate when played at moderate volume levels_
   
  After reading the first post (really love what you did Envy), the AD700s sound perfect for me. I play a lot of singleplayer, but I read they still have bass, just not as defined. It would be my first set of cans and the soundstage and clarity sound really nice.
   
  However, I read that open-backed headphones, like the AD700, will cause a lot of noise leakage. Is this true? I'm not worried at all about outside noise bothering _me_, but I will need to be respectful and keep the headphones quiet and not disturb my roommate.
   
  If they will cause too much noise even at moderate volume, could someone recommend me a few pairs of headphones that won't disturb my roommate?
   
  Here are a few pairs I was considering or was recommended: _(All links go to Amazon, just shortened them up)_
  AD700 - Highly recommended everywhere really, but lack bass. I'm worried about noise leak http://tinyurl.com/3jf2yne
  HD280 Pro - Recommend Ultra Highly for sound isolation; Envy says they are terrible for gaming though http://tinyurl.com/25flp4b HD428 - Only $50 and are closed cans, I can't find much info about gaming though. http://tinyurl.com/3msr5vp
  JVC HARX900 - These were strongly recommended to me by the creator of a headphone sticky. But they weigh 1.6 pounds which is a turn-off. http://tinyurl.com/6fxqgjv
   
  I'm considering just picking up the Sennheiser HD201s (http://tinyurl.com/6hdocck) for now since they are only $20, if they won't disturb the roommate. Mad Lust Envy rated them OK and it would give me time to figure out if I can get away using open-backed cans or not.
   
  Sorry for the wall of text here, I just wanted to give out a lot of detail and to see if my choices are any good. Thank you guys for the help!


----------



## flyingbangus

I just bought a PC360 yesterday from RazorDog's ebay listing. I can finally retire my logitech headset with a broken left channel LOL!
  Also excited as this is my first decent open headphone 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hey, to give some love to RazorDog! Deals


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Hey guys, I am starting college in two weeks and need a pair of gaming headphones that won't disturb my roommate. I need something under $100 and am totally confused what to buy. I have never owned a pair of headphones in my life and hope I can get help here. I am looking for recommendations, you don't need to read the details  below the italics if you don't want.
> 
> _Budget: $100_
> _Setup: Xbox 360 - Video: Computer Monitor - Sound: Integrated Sound Card_
> ...


 


  I'm starting my 4th year of college, and have had roommates every single year, and have also had open back headphones every single year as well (different ones, mind you!), and have never had a complaint about the leakage. I think you'd be fine with the AD700's considering they're excellent in every other regard for you.


----------



## almasy

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Hey guys, I am starting college in two weeks and need a pair of gaming headphones that won't disturb my roommate. I need something under $100 and am totally confused what to buy. I have never owned a pair of headphones in my life and hope I can get help here. I am looking for recommendations, you don't need to read the details  below the italics if you don't want.
> 
> _Budget: $100_
> _Setup: Xbox 360 - Video: Computer Monitor - Sound: Integrated Sound Card_
> ...


 


  JVC HARX900s are 0.77 pounds not 1.6... they're not much heavier than the AD700s


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





raguvian said:


> I'm starting my 4th year of college, and have had roommates every single year, and have also had open back headphones every single year as well (different ones, mind you!), and have never had a complaint about the leakage. I think you'd be fine with the AD700's considering they're excellent in every other regard for you.


 

 I dunno, I'm imagining it being dead quiet and the roommate going "SHHH" every time I push a button lol. Honestly though it will probably not be a big deal, but I won't know until I move in.
   
  I've also heard about the closed version of the AD700, the A700 and also the A900. Those might work as long as the soundstage isn't too hurt. Does anyone have any experience?
   
  @almasy, I saw 1.6 pounds on the Amazon product details page, maybe that is referring to the package and not the headphones itself. If that is so I apologize.


----------



## MohawkUS

I had the A900 for a few days, There was a noticeable echo on all my music. It made up for it though, the AD900 had no bass at all, but the A900 was ok.


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





chaay said:


> I dunno, I'm imagining it being dead quiet and the roommate going "SHHH" every time I push a button lol. Honestly though it will probably not be a big deal, but I won't know until I move in.
> 
> I've also heard about the closed version of the AD700, the A700 and also the A900. Those might work as long as the soundstage isn't too hurt. Does anyone have any experience?
> 
> @almasy, I saw 1.6 pounds on the Amazon product details page, maybe that is referring to the package and not the headphones itself. If that is so I apologize.


 

 Well it all depends on how loud you set the volume. At my normal volume there were no complaints, but my normal volume is generally pretty quiet.
   
  It's no worse in my experience than a desktop humming or a keyboard. I honestly wouldn't let a roommate keep you from the headphones you really want, but that's only for you to decide.
   
  I also haven't heard the AD700/900 or A700/900 (getting my AD900 tomorrow) but from what I've read, the A series phones give up soundstage for more bass. Not sure how good they'd be for gaming though.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





raguvian said:


> Well it all depends on how loud you set the volume. At my normal volume there were no complaints, but my normal volume is generally pretty quiet.
> 
> It's no worse in my experience than a desktop humming or a keyboard. I honestly wouldn't let a roommate keep you from the headphones you really want, but that's only for you to decide.
> 
> I also haven't heard the AD700/900 or A700/900 (getting my AD900 tomorrow) but from what I've read, the A series phones give up soundstage for more bass. Not sure how good they'd be for gaming though.


 
   

  I read so many different answers! Some people say it's not a big deal, but others say with open headphones you can clearly hear everything when they sit next to you.
   
  Last month I was on vacation in Florida. One of the people I was staying with walked around with a pair of headphones, and you could the lyrics pretty clearly and loudly. Though I think its just because he had the volume up very high, I don't have any headphone experience at all so I don't know what the reality is.
   
  Surprisingly, video reviews don't show examples of noise isolation and sound leaking. I'm not the kind of guy that blasts his volume, and I hardly ever listen to music, but a moderate volume level should do fine.


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





chaay said:


> I read so many different answers! Some people say it's not a big deal, but others say with open headphones you can clearly hear everything when they sit next to you.
> 
> Last month I was on vacation in Florida. One of the people I was staying with walked around with a pair of headphones that you could the lyrics too pretty clearly and loudly. Though I think its just because he had the volume up very high, I don't have any headphone experience at all so I don't know what the reality is.
> 
> Surprisingly, video reviews don't show examples of noise isolation and sound leaking. I'm not the kind of guy that blasts his volume, and I hardly ever listen to music, but a moderate volume level should do fine.


 


  If they sit right next to you, then yeah they'll be able to hear everything, which makes the open back headphones bad for the library.
   
  However, if your roommate is across the room from you it shouldn't be too bad.
   
  Also, I'm not sure how easily one could show the sound leakage of the headphones. When I get my AD900's tomorrow I could attempt to do a video showing the leakage, though I'm not sure how much it'd help...


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





raguvian said:


> If they sit right next to you, then yeah they'll be able to hear everything, which makes the open back headphones bad for the library.
> 
> However, if your roommate is across the room from you it shouldn't be too bad.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure how easily one could show the sound leakage of the headphones. When I get my AD900's tomorrow I could attempt to do a video showing the leakage, though I'm not sure how much it'd help...


 

 Thank you for the offer, but realistically I guess it would be hard to show sound leakage.
   
  Since I will have a campus job for spending money, I think I will go with closed cans to be on the safe side and pick up the AD700s later if its OK.
   
  The A700/900s look nice but it's breaking the bank, my ideal budget is $30-$70 maxing out at $100, basically just entry-level headphones with a good soundstage for gaming.


----------



## Raguvian

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Thank you for the offer, but realistically I guess it would be hard to show sound leakage.
> 
> Since I will have a campus job for spending money, I think I will go with closed cans to be on the safe side and pick up the AD700s later if its OK.
> 
> The A700/900s look nice but it's breaking the bank, my ideal budget is $30-$70 maxing out at $100, basically just entry-level headphones with a good soundstage for gaming.


 

 You could always get these:
   
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10823&cs_id=1082302&p_id=8323&seq=1&format=2
   
  and then let me know how they sound.


----------



## MohawkUS

Different headphones leak differently. Grado is the worst, you can hear them all the way across a house, open Ultrasones are second worst. Audio Technica's open phones are some of the least annoying.


----------



## rayuma

PC 360s are $177.85 on Amazon right now.


----------



## Adrian Peterson

should i buy the astro a40 or turtle beach hpx


----------



## MohawkUS

Neither, headphones marketed as "gaming headphones" are rarely up to the quality of audiophile headphones.


----------



## Adrian Peterson

I already know that the ad700 is on the way and i will do the mic mod with that  but i want a headset with a mic.


----------



## MohawkUS

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic have headsets with mics. I would check those out. I believe the Beyer is bases on the 770s.


----------



## Adrian Peterson

haha i was looking for something cheaper a40 or hpx if you had to choose


----------



## Rebel975

HPX.


----------



## Eric_C

Ad700 + mic mod = headset
What's the point of an A40 or HPX?


----------



## BournePerfect

W Did anyone ever decide if any decoders were better than the other from a sonic point of view? i.e. stronger amping capabilities, lower noise floor, etc. I know for a fact that the DSS is not a noise free device as I can almost always hear the noise floor when I try it with music. For this reason I've always felt maybe the HK receivers would probably be the best option for DH, price notwithstanding.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would love to own one, as I rarely use chat functions on my Mixamp (save a few days of CoD fests with friends). Maybe one day.


----------



## BournePerfect

I'm in the process of repairing an HK AVR 354 right now. If I get it working I'll report back. There seems to be some confusion because HK says it is Dolby Headphone version2-but apparently that is what the Mixamp uses so I'm not to worried. Next order of business is getting a Yamaha for Silent Cinema to try with movies, and with games just to see if it can compete lol.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Chaay

I was thinking of buying a Mixamp/Ear Force DSS for Dolby Headphone on my Xbox 360, but since I get audio off my sound card I have no idea if this will work. I wanted to post a small excerpt from a thread I made in case anyone here can answer for me:
   
_Can I get sound on my Xbox 360 from my sound card, and also get Dolby Headphone (5.1 or virtual 7.1) from the Ear Force DSS/Mixamp? I will be ordering the Xonar DG for use with this._
   
   
  Everything involved in my planned Xbox 360 setup would be:
*Computer Monitor, Asus Xonar DG sound card (inside the running PC of course), Ear Force DSS/Mixamp, Headphones.*
   

If not, is the only option for console gamers is to buy a TV, or something else?


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Thank you for the offer, but realistically I guess it would be hard to show sound leakage.
> 
> Since I will have a campus job for spending money, I think I will go with closed cans to be on the safe side and pick up the AD700s later if its OK.
> 
> The A700/900s look nice but it's breaking the bank, my ideal budget is $30-$70 maxing out at $100, basically just entry-level headphones with a good soundstage for gaming.


 
  Superlux HD-668Bs are semi-open and leak all most no sound (at normal volume levels)
  Best price at Audiohipster.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> Superlux HD-668Bs are semi-open and leak all most no sound (at normal volume levels)
> Best price at Audiohipster.


 
  Hey there. I was pretty unsure for awhile posting around but decided on the 668b the other day. The reviews are extremely good considering their price. Thanks for bringing me to their name initially.
   
  The only thing I have left to figure out is if I can get the mixamp/DSS to work with my setup (two posts up).


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





chaay said:


> I was thinking of buying a Mixamp/Ear Force DSS for Dolby Headphone on my Xbox 360, but since I get audio off my sound card I have no idea if this will work. I wanted to post a small excerpt from a thread I made in case anyone here can answer for me:
> 
> _Can I get sound on my Xbox 360 from my sound card, and also get Dolby Headphone (5.1 or virtual 7.1) from the Ear Force DSS/Mixamp? I will be ordering the Xonar DG for use with this._
> 
> ...


 


  Doesn't the DG already do Dolby Headphone? If not, then it would be easy to hook up a Mixamp. Optical out from the DG > Mixamp > Headphone out to your headphones
   
  I'm reading your question again and I'm a little confused. Are you wanting Dolby Headphone with the Xbox or with the DG? If the DG, I'm pretty sure it does Dolby Headphone. If the Xbox, then you need only look at my sig to see how it's done.
   
  Xbox with audio breakout dongle (to give it an optical port) > Mixamp > Headphone out  > Headphones. I'm kind of confused why you put that you want 5.1 with your xbox, but then are mentioning your Xonar DG. Your monitor and Xonar DG won't effect your sound setup with the Xbox at all.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Hey there. I was pretty unsure for awhile posting around but decided on the 668b the other day. The reviews are extremely good considering their price. Thanks for bringing me to their name initially.
> 
> The only thing I have left to figure out is if I can get the mixamp/DSS to work with my setup (two posts up).


 

 I'm going to guess you can use the red/white RCA stereo audio output coming from the Xbox 360 cable, you would need a cable with 2 RCA female RCA connectors (red/white) on one end and a single stereo mini jack (3.5mm) male connector on the other end, this cable would connect the Xbox 360 audio output to the Xonar DG's port 1 (input, mini jack 3.5mm), then plug you headphones into the DG's port 2 (headphone/front output), Then set the DG control panel to Dolby Headphone (5.1).
  If your computer has a headphone jack at the front of the case, you can plug your headphones there too.
  Hopefully ??, this will give you Dolby headphone for the Xbox 360...Hopefully you will not need the mixamp/DSS.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Doesn't the DG already do Dolby Headphone? If not, then it would be easy to hook up a Mixamp. Optical out from the DG > Mixamp > Headphone out to your headphones
> 
> I'm reading your question again and I'm a little confused. Are you wanting Dolby Headphone with the Xbox or with the DG? If the DG, I'm pretty sure it does Dolby Headphone. If the Xbox, then you need only look at my sig to see how it's done.
> 
> Xbox with audio breakout dongle (to give it an optical port) > Mixamp > Headphone out  > Headphones. I'm kind of confused why you put that you want 5.1 with your xbox, but then are mentioning your Xonar DG. Your monitor and Xonar DG won't effect your sound setup with the Xbox at all.


 
  I want Dolby Headphone with the Xbox. I understand that the DG itself would only give stereo (to the Xbox), but I don't understand how I will even get sound at all for my Xbox with a Mixamp/DSS.
   
  I currently use a VGA cable http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-VGA-HD-AV-Cable/dp/B000B6MLTG to get video off my monitor and sound from my computer's onboard, integrated audio (which is output through desktop speakers). The VGA cable already has an optical port if its that little black square.
   
  What I want to go to is using the VGA cable to get video off my monitor and using a Mixamp/Ear Force DSS to get Dolby Headphone, while using headphones instead of speakers.
   
  But where would my sound then come from? Before it came from plugging the RCA cables into the line-in jack and then outputting it through desktop speakers. I thought the Mixamp/Ear Force DSS just acted as decoders and didn't provide any source of sound or amplification? Or am I totally missing something lol?
   
  Here is a link to the thread I made, please let me know if I'm not explaining this right.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/567464/xbox-360-sound-card-and-mixamp-dss-help#post_7686694


----------



## RapidPulse

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Chaay* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I thought the Mixamp/Ear Force DSS just acted as decoders and didn't provide any source of sound or amplification? Or am I totally missing something lol?


 
   
  Yes...you are missing something  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Both the Mixamp and the DSS have 1/8 inch headphone jacks and do provide some amplification.
   
  Or, if you prefer, like in Rebel's signature, you can connect the mixamp to a more powerful headphone amp and then plug the headphones into the amp.


----------



## Jae304

Quote:


chaay said:


> But where would my sound then come from? Before it came from plugging the RCA cables into the line-in jack and then outputting it through desktop speakers. I thought the Mixamp/Ear Force DSS just acted as decoders and didn't provide any source of sound or amplification? Or am I totally missing something lol?


 

  You're totally missing something! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The Mixamp does not require anything else in order to power your headphones -- it provides more than just decoding.  Simply connect the optical cable from the xbox to the mixamp, then plug in your headphones to the mixamp.  Done...well, besides USB to power it or batteries if you go with the wireless unit.


----------



## Chaay

Wow...just...lol.
   
  I can't believe I made things so over complicated and it was that simple. Thank you guys _so_ much for helping me out! Honestly, I'm pretty annoyed I've been using stereo desktop speakers, from an integrated sound card , all this time when it turns out for under $200 you can get a combo like Mixamp+AD700 these days.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But if they are mostly the same I will probably go with the Ear Force DSS. I read that you lose the option to balance chat volume with non Turtle Beach headsets, but that won't be a big issue for me. It's $70 for the DSS off Amazon vs. $130 for the Mixamp.


----------



## Eric_C

Based on discussions in this thread, I would strongly advise you to take the mixamp instead of the Ear Force DSS. It consistently gets reviewed as the kind of thing you buy once and never have to worry about for gaming audio ever again.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Hey there. I was pretty unsure for awhile posting around but decided on the 668b the other day. The reviews are extremely good considering their price. Thanks for bringing me to their name initially.
> 
> The only thing I have left to figure out is if I can get the mixamp/DSS to work with my setup (two posts up).


 
  I know you can run the audio cable from your XBox to the Xonar DG and hook your headphones to the DG, hopefully the Xonar DG can process that signal to Dolby headphone (5.1)
  Hopefully, no need for the Mixamp/DSS,
  The Xonar DG and the Mixamp/DSS do a lot of the same functions.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> I know you can run the audio cable from your XBox to the Xonar DG and hook your headphones to the DG, hopefully the Xonar DG can process that signal to Dolby headphone (5.1)
> Hopefully, no need for the Mixamp/DSS,
> The Xonar DG and the Mixamp/DSS do a lot of the same functions.


 

 I've looked into this and from what I've gathered am almost entirely sure this cannot work, the best you can do is stereo. I think it's possible with a more advanced (expensive) sound card and Dolby Digital Live, but this is only based off my research today. As for me, I'm just happy the Mixamp/DSS will work and that it's _much _less complicated than I imagined.
   


  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Based on discussions in this thread, I would strongly advise you to take the mixamp instead of the Ear Force DSS. It consistently gets reviewed as the kind of thing you buy once and never have to worry about for gaming audio ever again.


 

 As far as sound quality goes, based on reviews I've seen from reliable people, I feel confident the DSS and Mixamp are near equal. What you really lose with the DSS is the ability to chat using a headset that wasn't made specifically for Xbox360 (and maybe PS3, not sure). In order to do that, you have to spend $10 on a third-party cable, and even more if you want the ability to mix chat volume.
   
  I don't think the chat functions justify the $60 premium for the Mixamp because I don't need them right now and money is tight. If it was two months from now and I was set up with my campus job and had an income I would not hesitate to get the Mixamp over the DSS.


----------



## Eric_C

So a MixAmp/DSS would be effective in place of a soundcard, no? Since both can work via USB, as well as with consoles.


----------



## Rebel975

Yes, the Mixamp will do a lot of things that a sound card does. It has a DAC. It provides some amplification to headphones (though not very much). It mixes stereo into surround sound. It's really an amazing piece of kit for console gaming, especially considering the voice to game volume mixer that you can use with any headphone/mic combo that you want.
   
  That said, I would never recommend it for PC gamers. Any equally priced discrete sound card will do everything the mixamp does but better. Stronger amp, much better DAC, etc.
   
  As for the DSS vs Mixamp: The DSS is really just a poor man's Mixamp. The DSS still does the most important thing you want it to do- process stereo into surround sound. What you lose out on are a game to voice volume mixer, and some inputs. The Mixamp will take RCA, 1/8" headphone, TOSlink, and Coaxial for inputs. The DSS will only take TOSlink and 1/8" headphone.
   
  By the way, I just looked, and the Mixamp is only $40 more than the DSS. It also comes with a nice 12 foot RCA piggyback cable (like the one linked but much nicer), and everything you need to hook up a third party headset. To be fair, the DSS does come with an optical cable, when the Mixamp does not.


----------



## Chaay

How would I go about hooking the Mixamp/DSS to the PC without an optical port on the PC? Even without Dolby Headphone, does the Mixamp/DSS allow you to plug into one of the 3.5mm ports on the back of your PC for stereo?
   
  I only use audio on the PC for streaming Hulu and Youtube, and I'm wondering if its worth ordering the Xonar DG ($30) for the optical port or not.


----------



## Eric_C

Well, I know the MixAmp can be connected via USB:
http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_quickstart_2.pdf
   
  But after looking at the DSS page, I'm not sure if its USB only serves as power:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-processors/ear-force-dss.aspx (click on "How does it work?")


----------



## Rebel975

Both the DSS and Mixamp have 1/8" headphone inputs.


----------



## Eric_C

Aye, but that would mean losing the Dolby processing feature.


----------



## Rebel975

Sure, but he said "without Dolby Headphone" and "stereo."


----------



## Eric_C

D'oh. See what happens when one multitasks between a forum and work.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> As for the DSS vs Mixamp: The DSS is really just a poor man's Mixamp. The DSS still does the most important thing you want it to do- process stereo into surround sound. What you lose out on are a game to voice volume mixer, and some inputs. The Mixamp will take RCA, 1/8" headphone, TOSlink, and Coaxial for inputs. The DSS will only take TOSlink and 1/8" headphone.
> 
> By the way, I just looked, and the Mixamp is only $40 more than the DSS. It also comes with a nice 12 foot RCA piggyback cable (like the one linked but much nicer), and everything you need to hook up a third party headset. To be fair, the DSS does come with an optical cable, when the Mixamp does not.


 
  The DSS is $70 shipped and sold from Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313548683&sr=8-1 
  It's a lot more attractive than the $90 price tag on their site.
   
   I don't fully understand all the capabilities. I don't know what the RCA piggyback cable is for (I thought that was for a TV setup which I do not use), and I do not know what Coaxial input is. The DSS will cost me $70 total for the time being, with the mixamp being $130+$15 for cable, or $140 for wireless.
   
  If I wasn't already going over budget I would definitely go for the Mixamp but I don't think the DSS would be terrible either. I might end up with the wired/wireless Mixamp anyway though, it's definitely tempting.


----------



## Rebel975

If I didn't need the voice to game volume mixer then I would get the DSS. Like I said before, they both do what's most important... mixing stereo into surround sound. If you can get the DSS for $70, then I say go for it.


----------



## Eric_C

Hey Chaay if you go for the MixAmp and need an optical cable, PM me your address. I'll send you one for the cost of shipping from Singapore (I don't use it as I no longer own amps that can utilise TOSLink)


----------



## Chaay

@Eric_C, Thank you for the kind offer but I think the cost of shipping from that distance would far exceed just buying my own
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Both the DSS and Mixamp have 1/8" headphone inputs.


 


  So looking at the DSS, it looks like I would use the 3.5mm to 3.5mm to connect the analog in to one of the 3.5mm ports on my PC and then I will get sound through my headphones via the DSS?


----------



## Rebel975

That is correct. It will allow you to have the computer and Xbox both connected to your headphones at the same time (And you'll even be able to stream music from your PC while gaming), though you'll only get the stereo to surround sound processing for the Xbox (Optical in).


----------



## Chaay

Wow. That sounds so, _so_ much nicer than the setup I had envisioned less than a day ago. I'm so excited to order everything now! Going from integrated audio and desktop speakers to a decent set of headphones and Dolby Headphone is going to blow my mind.
   
  Thanks again for answering all these my questions.


----------



## SteelRain

ok I keep wondering, even with the astro mixamp, when you hear voice chat on a non xbox 360 head phone do you have to use "speaker" setting? or does it come through "headset" channel like your x41's, A40's. Cuz this is the only thing keeping me from my ideal budget all rounder set up: Superlux 668b, astro mixamp, not sure what mic? would prefer boom mic to stick on the side, but clip-on might be ok. The other thing is i'm not to sure what the  668b is like with gaming? but i'm assuming it would smash my x41's?


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





steelrain said:


> ok I keep wondering, even with the astro mixamp, when you hear voice chat on a non xbox 360 head phone do you have to use "speaker" setting? or does it come through "headset" channel like your x41's, A40's. Cuz this is the only thing keeping me from my ideal budget all rounder set up: Superlux 668b, astro mixamp, not sure what mic? would prefer boom mic to stick on the side, but clip-on might be ok. The other thing is i'm not to sure what the  668b is like with gaming? but i'm assuming it would smash my x41's?


 

 Take some comfort for the lack of negative reviews from Superlux owners.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> Take some comfort for the lack of negative reviews from Superlux owners.


 

 But does it answer SteelRain's question of 668 vs X41 for gaming?
   


  Quote: 





steelrain said:


> ok I keep wondering, even with the astro mixamp, when you hear voice chat on a non xbox 360 head phone do you have to use "speaker" setting? or does it come through "headset" channel like your x41's, A40's.


 
   
  Hey SteelRain, I saw on your other thread you mentioned that sound was tinny when you output chat audio through "speakers"? Was it game or chat audio that went all tinny? 
  I don't have a MixAmp, but I do game on Xbox Live with my regular headphones. I output chat audio to Speakers Only, and have the Xbox's wired headset around my neck, so that the mic points up in front of my mouth. Works fine for the most part--my friends hear me clearly, but I have to turn down game audio (that is to say, SFX and Music) in order to hear them, and when the action heats up my friends often have to repeat what they say.


----------



## Chaay

Quote:  





> The other thing is i'm not to sure what the  668b is like with gaming? but i'm assuming it would smash my x41's?


 

 I've searched and there's absolutely no information on 668b gaming. There was one guy who tried them out earlier in this thread and disliked it; He said the mids felt recessed and the soundstage was comparable to the AKG 240 (which is said to have a good but not great soundstage).
   
  But if you check one of the 435678578 posts about the 668b regarding music, most of the reviews are quite positive so I wouldn't worry at all about gaming with them.


----------



## Rebel975

The Mixamp allows chat volume to go through the headset like it would with any other  (X41, A40, etc.) This is the major thing the Mixamp has over the DSS. The ability to use 3rd party headphones and effectively use voice chat. When it's coming through "speakers" it just sounds weird.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





chaay said:


> As far as sound quality goes, based on reviews I've seen from reliable people, I feel confident the DSS and Mixamp are near equal. What you really lose with the DSS is the ability to chat using a headset that wasn't made specifically for Xbox360 (and maybe PS3, not sure). In order to do that, you have to spend $10 on a third-party cable, and even more if you want the ability to mix chat volume.
> 
> I don't think the chat functions justify the $60 premium for the Mixamp because I don't need them right now and money is tight. If it was two months from now and I was set up with my campus job and had an income I would not hesitate to get the Mixamp over the DSS.


 
   
  Besides the inability to mix in chat audio, the DSS has a higher noise floor than the mixamp -- you will hear quite a bit more hiss from it.  This doesn't matter so much when there is plenty of action going on in the game but just wanted to be sure you knew that.  On top of that, you're also wrong about the additional money you need to spend on the mixamp.  You do need to buy a optical cable as one isn't supplied but I'm almost certain nothing else is needed for the xbox setup.  The additional chat cable is only needed if you're gaming on ps3.  Even if it were additional, you don't have to buy those items now...but isn't it nice to know you have that option in the future??  You said chat isn't that important to you but you also said you may end up with a mixamp down the line.  Seems to me you should either buy it now or just wait until you can afford it. It is more expensive than the DSS but it is worth it.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> Besides the inability to mix in chat audio, the DSS has a higher noise floor than the mixamp -- you will hear quite a bit more hiss from it.  This doesn't matter so much when there is plenty of action going on in the game but just wanted to be sure you knew that.  On top of that, you're also wrong about the additional money you need to spend on the mixamp.  You do need to buy a optical cable as one isn't supplied but I'm almost certain nothing else is needed for the xbox setup.  The additional chat cable is only needed if you're gaming on ps3.  Even if it were additional, you don't have to buy those items now...but isn't it nice to know you have that option in the future??  You said chat isn't that important to you but you also said you may end up with a mixamp down the line.  Seems to me you should either buy it now or just wait until you can afford it. It is more expensive than the DSS but it is worth it.


 
  I've only read a few reports that claim there is a noticeably higher hiss floor and many that say the quality is equal (such as this thread's author). I think the increased hiss is either coming from the mics of certain USB headsets or from plugging the DSS's USB power into a noisy PC USB. This is based on what I've read.
   
  The price difference is $70 (DSS) vs. $130+$15 (mixamp+toslink). So if you think about it for current buyers, they are paying double to have the chat functionality. Before factoring in price, the Mixamp is hands down the better product. And even after it still seems pretty worth it unless you never play online. 
   
  The reason I would rather not save up is because I would then have to play off stereo headphone from my sound card. But the onboard audio I am switching to doesn't support digital input so I can't get sound on my Xbox 360, so that would require me to buy a $30 sound card just to get stereo headphone.
   
http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp/mixamp-usb
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313600877&sr=8-1


----------



## Naked Snake

I was debating between the DSS and the Mixamp, but I was able to get a DSS for very cheap so I bought it. I haven't tried the Mixamp so I can't comment on that, but I just took delivery of a new pair of AD700s and will put them to the test with the DSS in a few hours. I'll report back on the "hiss" issue.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chaay said:


> I've only read a few reports that claim there is a noticeably higher hiss floor and many that say the quality is equal (such as this thread's author). I think the increased hiss is either coming from the mics of certain USB headsets or from plugging the DSS's USB power into a noisy PC USB. This is based on what I've read.


 

  
  The DSS has a higher noise floor. Its a fact.  Its not coming from any USB power interference or mics.  The thread author has never heard the DSS before. 
   
  I have a DSS and mixamp 5.8 and use them both.  The surround sound quality itself is equal.
   
  And you shouldn't be paying $15 for a toslink cable.  Stick to monoprice and pay $2-3.
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229


----------



## TMRaven

I've said it multiple times in this very thread among others, the dss definitely has a higher noise floor to it, and that's a considerable downside. The mixamp doesnt get noisy until about 60%, and even the mixamp at around 70% is comparable to the dss at 10%. Mentioned above about the mixamp giving you true voicechat is true as well, with the dss the voices are mixed in with the surround sound, so it feels as though they're coming from external speakers rather than your headphones.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The DSS has a higher noise floor. Its a fact.  Its not coming from any USB power interference or mics.  The thread author has never heard the DSS before.
> 
> I have a DSS and mixamp 5.8 and use them both.  The surround sound quality itself is equal.
> 
> ...


 
  I was referring to Mad Lust Envy's post: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/522756/earforce-dds-vs-astro-mixamp-vs-tritton-ax720-decoder
   
  I've done lots of searching and I don't see why the hiss isn't mentioned more often as a strike toward the DSS if it's _that _noticeable. I just don't run into many posts that say "The sound quality is equal, but the DSS emits a hiss even at lower volumes which can be an annoyance."
   
  Thank you for the link. Are the 3rd party toslinks on par with the Astro's? I assume it is but sometimes there is a markup for a reason.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





chaay said:


> I was referring to Mad Lust Envy's post: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/522756/earforce-dds-vs-astro-mixamp-vs-tritton-ax720-decoder
> 
> I've done lots of searching and I don't see why the hiss isn't mentioned more often as a strike toward the DSS if it's _that _noticeable. I just don't run into many posts that say "The sound quality is equal, but the DSS emits a hiss even at lower volumes which can be an annoyance."
> 
> Thank you for the link. Are the 3rd party toslinks on par with the Astro's? I assume it is but sometimes there is a markup for a reason.


 


  MLE has definitely posted about the higher noise floor from the DSS on these forums before, but in any case I've also A/B'd the DSS and my mixamp so it is not speculation.  As I said, it's not a big issue but it's definitely there and noticeable.  Also, another vote for Monoprice -- they have great products and prices.  No need to buy Astro's cable.


----------



## BournePerfect

Noise floor isn't just about hiss and distortion at low levels. It's there at louder volumes regardless, and it may very well (subtely) cover up some frequencies at louder volumes as well. You may not understand that until you hear an amp with an absolute 'black' background-then going back to an amp with a higher noise floor and all of a sudden that previously 'unnoticed' distorion rears it's ugly head. So I for one definitely think a lower noise floor can still help to accurately pinpoint sounds when it comes to gaming amps as well.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## dmann

Ok I have done alot of researching and learned alot (or I am pretty sure I have) since I joined this forum to find a headphone. I am a competitive gamer, but I also listen to music like classic rock, and dubstep, rarely movies, and like to be immersed with
  gaming(CS 1.6/CZ(don't make fun of me) ) as well as music. I would like to hear footsteps and wallspams in cs, and I also would like to have the best soundstage and imaging(directional pinpointing) available.
   
  I have only had 20 dollar Wal-Mart headphones and a *Gamecom 777* headset. I like closed headphones cause I don't want to hear the fan blowing, ect.
   
  I have about $200 - $300 to spend on a headphone.
   
  I have looked at alot of headphones, at first I thought I liked the *AD700*, I was about to buy it, then I saw the *AD900*, I was so excited i was about to buy that, but then I learned about how bass light it was and about how people were returning it because of that, which got me seriously researching because I don't want to buy one and be unsatisfied or buy multiple headphones (because I don't have money to throw around really).
   
  I looked at:
*AD700* - Read it was real good for positioning, had good soundstage, but was too basslight for immersion to really get into gaming and music.
*AD900* - A little better than the *AD700*, but just the same about being basslight.
*A 700/900* - Closed, good, but also heard the positioning and soundstage was reduced and the bass was better than the *A700/900* but just wasn't good enough.
*DT770 Pro 80Ohms* - I then found this closed headphone, it was the headphone to get for gaming a few years ago (from what I've read) but some say it was just too bass heavy and the bass overpowered the rest of the sounds to get good positional accuracy and the sound stage (I know I have read that bass isn't good for that but people say it was WAY too overpowering for what it was)
*DT880(forgot the ohm)* - I found this and thought since it is semi-open/semi-closed, it would be really good, but then I read about people saying it leaks noise alot and how it isn't completely accurate in positional accuracy from behind or something, and that the bass is too light for the "immersion" like detail.
*Superlux HD-668B* - I havn't done much research on this, but what I have read is, people say this is a headphone up in the levels of the *DT770* or something i think, and when I first posted in the other forum "post here to find a headphone" or something, Tacoboy recommended this to me. He said this is the one I should get.
   
  After researching, I told myself I didn't want the *AD700/900* or the *A700/900*, and i heard that the *DT880* was semi-open so I wondered about how the sound leaked and that it was bad at pinpointing back directional sounds, then I looked at and researched alot more headphones and I think I am going to buy a *DT770*, i am just not sure about which Ohm I should pick, I will buy a *Asus Xonar STX* or a *sound card* and a *dedicated amp *(because I read that a *STX *cannot successfully power a headphone for maximum quality.) I didnt really think the *Superlux HD-668B* could be as good as a *DT770* because of the price differences, so I couldn't really say anything much about that.
   
  So I would like to know, am I making the right decision in picking the *DT770*? If I am right, which OHM should I choose and why? If I am wrong, please suggest a headphone and/or amp I should probably get instead of the *DT770*, and leave a reason why.
   
  Thanks to all who gave me some suggestions in my first post, and thanks to everyone that will give me some good advice/suggestions in this post.
   
               Thanks so much for reading.
  /end essay


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> MLE has definitely posted about the higher noise floor from the DSS on these forums before, but in any case I've also A/B'd the DSS and my mixamp so it is not speculation.  As I said, it's not a big issue but it's definitely there and noticeable.  Also, another vote for Monoprice -- they have great products and prices.  No need to buy Astro's cable.


 
  This is all just based on my research before I order Friday, I can't argue against those who have tested it out. I am selling my Nintendo DSi that I never used so I think I've been convinced to go with the Mixamp or forever be sadface at what could have been (in terms of chat capability at least).
   
  Now off to find out wired or wireless mixamp.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





dmann said:


> Ok I have done alot of researching and learned alot (or I am pretty sure I have) since I joined this forum to find a headphone. I am a competitive gamer, but I also listen to music like classic rock, and dubstep, rarely movies, and like to be immersed with
> gaming(CS 1.6/CZ(don't make fun of me) ) as well as music, I also would like to have the best positioning and imaging(directional pinpointing) available.
> 
> I have only had 20 dollar Wal-Mart headphones and a *Gamecom 777* headset. I like closed headphones cause I don't want to hear the fan blowing, ect.
> ...


 

 I guess I should rephrase what I said.
  The HD-668Bs are about 85% of the sound quality of the DT-770 250-Ohm headphones. I just did a fresh test.
  My DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm need to use my ($75) 6922EH headphone tube amp. to function, because my Xonar DX barely powers them with all volumes controls maxed out,
  I'm not sure I can run Dolby headphone 5.1 on my computer with the 250-Ohm headphones with the tube amp. between the sound card and headphones. (still experimenting).
  The DT-770 Pro 80-Ohm will work fine hooked straight to the Xonar DX, but has too much bass for gaming or movies (long term listening).
  So that's why I push the HD-668Bs, they work fine hooked straight up to anything without the need of a headphone amp. (but a good amp. makes then sound better).
  The bass on the HD-668B does not over power my 47 year old ears.
  If you decide you want something better (way more expensive) the HD-668Bs should be an easy sell.


----------



## MohawkUS

Like I've said before, Ultrasones are the king of gaming(immersions wise and quite good competitive wise) and king of any Electronic genre and metal. You really need to hear the S-Logic to believe it.


----------



## dmann

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> Like I've said before, Ultrasones are the king of gaming(immersions wise and quite good competitive wise) and king of any Electronic genre and metal. You really need to hear the S-Logic to believe it.


 


  Could you please suggest a particular one that is in my price range that is good? thanks


----------



## MohawkUS

I would go with the HFI-2400 or 2500 for gaming, open headphones have better soundstage most of the time. The only model I have heard is the PRO 2900.


----------



## dmann

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I would go with the HFI-2400 or 2500 for gaming, open headphones have better soundstage most of the time. The only model I have heard is the PRO 2900.


 


  Thanks a lot for your replies. I will check these out, I am still open to more suggestions though.


----------



## dmann

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I would go with the HFI-2400 or 2500 for gaming, open headphones have better soundstage most of the time. The only model I have heard is the PRO 2900.


 


  Oh yea I forgot! Do you happen to know one that is closed back that is also good for gaming and music and such, and could you compare you could, thanks.


----------



## MohawkUS

I have not heard any of the others, the only closed back headphone I have used is the AKG K81, and it is bad for gaming. Its the S-logic which makes them so good for gaming, and all of them have it, the PRO series are said to have better soundstages, so possibly the PRO550 or 750.


----------



## dmann

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I have not heard any of the others, the only closed back headphone I have used is the AKG K81, and it is bad for gaming. Its the S-logic which makes them so good for gaming, and all of them have it, the PRO series are said to have better soundstages, so possibly the PRO550 or 750.


 

 Thanks, I'll check those out. Anyone and everyone, if you know anything, please leave a message suggesting anything else, or confirming anything, or correcting anything that I have said that is wrong and letting me know, thanks everyone!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> MLE has definitely posted about the higher noise floor from the DSS on these forums before, but in any case I've also A/B'd the DSS and my mixamp so it is not speculation.  As I said, it's not a big issue but it's definitely there and noticeable.  Also, another vote for Monoprice -- they have great products and prices.  No need to buy Astro's cable.


 

 x2
   
  And the reason you don't read about people complaining about the DSS noise is because most people don't own both a mixamp and a DSS as its redundant.  They get one or the other, so they don't make comparisons.
   
  As Jae304 said about the noise "its not a big issue but it's definitely there and noticeable".  The DSS is still a nice little device, but if your getting one amp (and you think you will ever use chat) I would get a mixamp.


----------



## Naked Snake

I used the DSS today with my AD700s for the first time, for a few hours and honestly the hiss that people complain about, I did not hear it at all. It may be because I've never used the Mixamp, but also there is so much game noise going on you never hear it. There are a couple of modes where the game is campy, not much game noise is going on and hearing footsteps to locate the enemy is especially important here, but even then the hiss is hardly noticeable, if at all. I did not feel that it interferes with locating enemies either.
   
  I also watched a Blu-ray with surround sound and tried to hear the hiss during silent scenes, and once again I did not hear it. The volume was probably set to about 70% while gaming and slightly louder with the movie. BTW, I am pretty young and my hearing is fine. So would I pay the $50-70 more for a mixamp? If considering just the hiss issue, I definitely would not, because it's just not that much of an issue, if at all. Others may feel different. If, however, you need the chat functionality, then you may want to consider the Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna be clear that while I've heard the DSS, I didn't hear it in a controlled environment, and didn't hear it for as prolonged period of time. I base what I said from multiple friends (whom I trust) who own/heard the DSS, not my own conclusions, as I seriously can't give a fair review on it. All I know is that I would avoid it like the plague if I wanted to use non-TB headsets or headphone + mic. Basically avoid it if you need chat capabilities with non-TB solutions.

My general assumption from what I've gathered from the two forums I frequent is that it's somewhat comparable to the Mixamp 5.8 in overall sound quality ALONE, meaning some noise floor, but not distracting while actually playing anything. Same can be said about the AX 720's decoder box/amp which I HAVE heard extensively.

I can't recommend the DSS simply because it lacks chat capabilities for the headphones/headsets most of us would use, and needs an external solution like the Steelseries Spectrum Audio Mixer IN ADDITION to the DSS, which is a clutter crazy solution.

If you're absolutely certain you need zero chat functions... then the DSS is an obvious choice for the money. While I'm one who rarely chats, i DO need chat functions once in a blue moon, which is why I wouldn't ever get the DSS.

BTW, Blu-Rays usually use DTS-HD (which I believe has a hidden DTS track for those who can't play DTS-HD, so unless your BD player is converting DTS to Dolby D, you're not gonna be getting real DH, but echoey as hell stereo (not even close to even Pro Logic II). However, DVDs do tend to have a Dolby Digital track, so the Mixamp/DSS/AX720 will give you proper DH for your movies. The difference is noticeable.

Too bad, since I love watching movies with headphones, but have to deal with non-DH for Blu-Rays.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Noise floor isn't just about hiss and distortion at low levels. It's there at louder volumes regardless, and it may very well (subtely) cover up some frequencies at louder volumes as well. *You may not understand that until you hear an amp with an absolute 'black' background-then going back to an amp with a higher noise floor and all of a sudden that previously 'unnoticed' distorion rears it's ugly head.* So I for one definitely think a lower noise floor can still help to accurately pinpoint sounds when it comes to gaming amps as well.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 Quote:


chicolom said:


> x2
> 
> *And the reason you don't read about people complaining about the DSS noise is because most people don't own both a mixamp and a DSS as its redundant.  They get one or the other, so they don't make comparisons.*
> 
> As Jae304 said about the noise "its not a big issue but it's definitely there and noticeable".  The DSS is still a nice little device, but if your getting one amp (and you think you will ever use chat) I would get a mixamp.


 

  
  I'd say you two hit the nail on the head exactly.  If you've never had another amp to compare it to, you probably wouldn't even notice it as it's not a game breaker at all.  The DSS is a good product and for most people, it is definitely not a reason to avoid buying it...then again, many of us on head-fi are a little more picky than most!


----------



## AncientWsidom

Quote: 





dmann said:


> Thanks, I'll check those out. Anyone and everyone, if you know anything, please leave a message suggesting anything else, or confirming anything, or correcting anything that I have said that is wrong and letting me know, thanks everyone!


 
   
  Hey I'm in a very similar boat as you, looking for bassier AD700/900 alternatives and here is what I found:
  First of all if you want good positioning than usually open headphones have better more open soundstage thus better positioning.
  in saying that not all open headphones have totally bad leakage, some of them are alright so if you research you might find a pair of opens that would fit your need.
   
  The open models that I found and am considering:
  - DT440 are supposed to be really under-rated with great SQ as well as positioning *with decent bass* - I'm going to go and have a listen to them later this week. Heard they are not that comfortable though.
  - AD900 are bassier than AD700, have you listened to them? you might like them! they are actually really good phones, worth giving them a go. If I don't like the DT440, that's what I'm getting (probably if I don't change my mind by then).
  - If you look for the Fischer Audio FA-011 thread, people are swearing by them crazy. not sure if it's hype or not, but they sound like good bassy headphones - but you need a good amp in order to get their goodness out.
  - If we are talking about amps, Senns HD598 is another head-fi favorite for gaming
   
  If you do want to go with closed:
  - Denon D2000 are supposed to be wicked, they have some weakness with construction but otherwise people here love them. Sorry I never heard them because you can't get them where I live (too overpriced in australia) but maybe you can find a place to listen to them. In fact from what you've said they are probably the closest to what you are looking.
  - DT250 are the favorites closed cans for just about anything in my local shop (no wow factor, but really good SQ and decent SS)
  - Ultrasone have some nice closed hp that are supposed to be alright for gaming, I know the PRO900 are, but way over your budget
   
  Can't comment on the superflux 668b coz I never heard them, but I doubt they sound as good as the above models (they may well be very good value, but just not sound *as *good)
   
  Hope this helps


----------



## TMRaven

Don't know why people wouldnt be able to hear the hiss. Even with apple stock buds I could hear a hiss, and the dss is considerably more audible. Even the other inline amps turtle beach produce for their headsets are very noisy-- I personally have no idea why they just can't get their amps right. I'm not trying to brag that I have super ears either, I can barely hear a difference from a dt990 amped through an iMac vs little dot anyways. Simply put, the quiet nature of the mixamp makes quiet scenes in single player mode much more believable. I do agree the feature the mixamp has over the dss though is its support for true voice chat and chat volume mixing for every headphone on the market.

As for the d2000s, they are great for gaming, but movies are where I feel they truly shine with dh.


----------



## Bojamijams

I'm curious what people use for battlefield: bad company 2.
   
  on the STX I have it set to 6 channels, GX enabled, Dolby headphone on set to DH-1 (reference)
   
  In-game i use the Hi-Fi setting
   
  However I'm not convinced this is the best way to do it and its kind of hard to test the positional audio in the game with each minor setting because nothing is ever the same from one play to another.
   
  In fact, if you guys know of a great way to test different settings with a relatively similar scenario in game, I'd love to be able to try out and find the best setting.


----------



## Fargoth

Did you tinker with the audio in Mass Effect 2? There are settings for music, dialogue and sound effects. This is more a point of curiosity, since I'm wondering if the ship sounds still overpowered dialogue even if they were reduced.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





ancientwsidom said:


> Can't comment on the Superlux 668B cause I never heard them, but I doubt they sound as good as the above models (they may well be very good value, but just not sound *as *good)


 
  As a Superlux HD-668B owner, I would say the HD-668B is about 75% as good as those headphones that cost 3 to 4 times more.
  The semi-open nature of the HD-668B is the perfect blend between fully open and closed headphones.
  Coming with a 3' & 10' cable is nice (wish they added a 6').


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I'm curious what people use for battlefield: bad company 2.
> 
> on the STX I have it set to 6 channels, GX enabled, Dolby headphone on set to DH-1 (reference)
> 
> ...


 


  I'm a console gamer so I can't comment on anything but in game setting -- I prefer the Home Cinema setting in BC2.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Don't know why people wouldnt be able to hear the hiss. Even with apple stock buds I could hear a hiss, and the dss is considerably more audible. Even the other inline amps turtle beach produce for their headsets are very noisy-- I personally have no idea why they just can't get their amps right. I'm not trying to brag that I have super ears either, I can barely hear a difference from a dt990 amped through an iMac vs little dot anyways. Simply put, the quiet nature of the mixamp makes quiet scenes in single player mode much more believable. I do agree the feature the mixamp has over the dss though is its support for true voice chat and chat volume mixing for every headphone on the market.
> 
> As for the d2000s, they are great for gaming, but movies are where I feel they truly shine with dh.


 

  
  It's def noticeable however the reason I agree with Bourne and chicolom that you may not notice it until you have the chance to try a source without that hiss is because you may have already convinced yourself that the audio is supposed to sound like that so you begin looking for a hiss that is what you would consider out of the ordinary -- a much more intrusive hiss is what you're expecting to find.  Without that very intrusive hiss, you think we're wrong/exaggerating.  However, once you hear it hiss free, you'll realize just how much hiss there really is with the DSS.  
   
  Hope that managed to get my point across.


----------



## Chaay

I think Head-fiers are just conspiring to make uninformed consumers spend more money. This "hiss" from the DSS is obviously manufactured to make ordinary people spend double the price on a "better" piece of technology.
   
  Totally kidding by the way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Does anyone know if it's actually true that you can plug the PS3 Chat cable from the Mixamp 5.8 in to your computer to receieve audio on your PC? The wired Mixamp looks really nice because I can connect a 3.5mm/3.5mm or USB/USB to my computer and receieve stereo sound, but I don't know if you get that feature on the wireless Mixamp. My computer has no optical port.


----------



## AncientWsidom

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> As for the d2000s, they are great for gaming, but movies are where I feel they truly shine with dh.


 
   
  How is their soundstage? compare to AD700/900? considering they are closed...
   
  and also is the bass too overpowering for competetive multiplayer?
   
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I'm curious what people use for battlefield: bad company 2.
> 
> on the STX I have it set to 6 channels, GX enabled, Dolby headphone on set to DH-1 (reference)
> 
> ...


 

 I would be really interested in this as well.
  
  Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> As a Superlux HD-668B owner, I would say the HD-668B is about 75% as good as those headphones that cost 3 to 4 times more.
> I the semi-open nature of the HD-668B is the perfect blend between fully open and closed headphones.
> Coming with a 3' & 10' cable is nice (wish they added a 6').


 
   
  Fair enough, they are good value for money, can't argue with that.
   
  Have you compared them personally yourself to those 3-4 times more expensive headphones? trying to separate hype from unbiased opinion...


----------



## tdockweiler

I would agree with anyone that says the HD-668B is as good as headphones 3-4 times their price. Assuming you only paid $30, but it's not likely. This is also if you like their signature. I'm not a fan of it's signature at all and find it stock a bit too V-shaped, but not too badly. Calling it balanced seems kind of hard for me to believe. It's more of a fun headphone like the DT-770 or DT-990.
   
  Without a little work I think it's pretty worthless as a gaming headphone. It's mids are too distant sounding even with a good amp. You can majorly improve the mids though. I'll post more about that in HD-668B thread maybe. Now it's quite good for gaming.
   
  The detail on these is quite ridiculous for such a low price. Same goes for the sound clarity. The treble is a bit of a problem. Reminds me of the treble on the AD700, but not quite as bad.
   
  EDIT: If you want the absolute best gaming headphone money can buy for $50 (or even $100 maybe) get the 668B, add a cheap $5 Belden or Mogami cable and remove it's internal black "filter" behind the grill and then remove the foam in front of the driver. For added comfort the K240 Studio's headband works well.


----------



## Jae304

You only get stereo sound and the sound is coming through the voice channel of the wireless mixamp but it works -- and quite well actually. 
  
  Quote: 





			
				Chaay said:
			
		

> Does anyone know if it's actually true that you can plug the PS3 Chat cable from the Mixamp 5.8 in to your computer to receieve audio on your PC? The wired Mixamp looks really nice because I can connect a 3.5mm/3.5mm or USB/USB to my computer and receieve stereo sound, but I don't know if you get that feature on the wireless Mixamp. My computer has no optical port.


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> I'm curious what people use for battlefield: bad company 2.
> 
> on the STX I have it set to 6 channels, GX enabled, Dolby headphone on set to DH-1 (reference)
> 
> ...


 

 I've done a bit of research on this myself and found that most people think that the Home Cinema setting is the most accurate-I tend to agree! I've tried Hi-Fi, Headphones, War Tapes (FUN but INACCURATE) and a couple of others but settled on Home Cinema as my final solution. It just simply seems to give the best/most accurate positioning, and is the most blanced accross the board and doesn't exaggerate certain things like the other modes. For example (IIRC) the Headphone setting raises the volume of footsteps, but is innacurate and kind of distorted especially in buildings. War Tapes exaggerates every **** explosion and tank, nearly doubles the volume (why?!)  and sounds extremely distorted at times. It's a blast for SP though and will make you FEEL like a real war is at hand lol-especially with something like the Pro 900 or D2000. My .02
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





ancientwsidom said:


> Fair enough, they are good value for money, can't argue with that.
> 
> Have you compared them personally yourself to those 3-4 times more expensive headphones? trying to separate hype from unbiased opinion...


 

 My best headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm, really nicely balanced sound, they have better sound quality then the HD-668Bs
  Also have the DT-770 Pro 80-Ohm, lots of really great bass, puts a nice thump into music, but the bass is a little overpowering when watching movies or T.V.
  I have to adjust the volume level more offen then I like, I have to turn the volume down for special effects and loud movie music, then back up to hear the voices better.
  My Audio Technica ATH-AD700 are great for easy long term listening, but all the stuff where bass is important, now makes you feel left out (or lacking something)
  Advantages of the HD-668B are more bass then the AD700s, but being semi-open block more outside noise then the AD700.
  The HD-668Bs bass does not overpower like the DT-770 80-Ohms
  The DT-770 250-Ohm is better in every sound category over the HD-668, but I can plug the HD-668 (only 56-Ohm) directly into my Xonar DX sound card.
  My Xonar DX can not effectively power my DT-770 250-Ohms and using my tube amplifier for the 250-Ohm means I can not use Dolby headphone.
  The HD-668B card is the only real choice for using Dolby headphone on my computer.
  The HD-668B does not make anything I listen to feel overpowered or feel lacking.
  I'm planning on replacing my Xonar DX with the Xonar Essence STX in the future.


----------



## Chaay

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> You only get stereo sound and the sound is coming through the voice channel of the wireless mixamp but it works -- and quite well actually.


 

 Thank you. I mainly use the PC audio for Youtube and Hulu, so surround sound isn't a priority, though I very occasionally game or stream HBO. I looked into it though and it seems that the Mixamp can work as an external sound card, so it seems connecting USB/USB or RCA/3.5mm of the wired Mixamp would give me better quality.
   
  The reason I like the wireless mixamp is that it has the bass enhancer. I've read that it acts like a subwoofer and is actually decent. It's not a significant advantage, but nice to have.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





chaay said:


> Thank you. I mainly use the PC audio for Youtube and Hulu, so surround sound isn't a priority, though I very occasionally game or stream HBO. I looked into it though and it seems that the Mixamp can work as an external sound card, so it seems connecting USB/USB or RCA/3.5mm of the wired Mixamp would give me better quality.
> 
> The reason I like the wireless mixamp is that it has the bass enhancer. I've read that it acts like a subwoofer and is actually decent. It's not a significant advantage, but nice to have.


 
   
  The bass enhancer on the wireless mixamp is really quite nice however I don't think it has any effect on the voice channel so it may not yield any advantage over the wired unit for you.  TBH, I don't think I tried using the bass enhancer when I tried this out yesterday as I have my pc sound eq'd to my liking already but based on my experience with it while gaming, I'm pretty sure it has no effect on that channel.  I'll try and remember to test it out sometime over the weekend and report back.


----------



## Bojamijams

Thanks for that. Thats two recommendations for Home Cinema.
   
  Do you play on console or PC? If on PC, what setting do you use on your soundcard (and is Dolby Headphone enabled?)
  
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I've done a bit of research on this myself and found that most people think that the Home Cinema setting is the most accurate-I tend to agree! I've tried Hi-Fi, Headphones, War Tapes (FUN but INACCURATE) and a couple of others but settled on Home Cinema as my final solution. It just simply seems to give the best/most accurate positioning, and is the most blanced accross the board and doesn't exaggerate certain things like the other modes. For example (IIRC) the Headphone setting raises the volume of footsteps, but is innacurate and kind of distorted especially in buildings. War Tapes exaggerates every **** explosion and tank, nearly doubles the volume (why?!)  and sounds extremely distorted at times. It's a blast for SP though and will make you FEEL like a real war is at hand lol-especially with something like the Pro 900 or D2000. My .02
> 
> -Daniel


----------



## mafiamike

Well, after careful consideration, I ordered akg q701's today. Hopefully this will be it for headphones for awhile because the wife is taking notice. I play alot of blk ops(freeforall)/mw2 on my days off and I am into audio gear. The 701's also require a burn in period? I'll check them out for games/music/movies and give a small review.


----------



## AncientWsidom

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> My best headphones are the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm, really nicely balanced sound, they have better sound quality then the HD-668Bs
> Also have the DT-770 Pro 80-Ohm, lots of really great bass, puts a nice thump into music, but the bass is a little overpowering when watching movies or T.V.
> I have to adjust the volume level more offen then I like, I have to turn the volume down for special effects and loud movie music, then back up to hear the voices better.
> My Audio Technica ATH-AD700 are great for easy long term listening, but all the stuff where bass is important, now makes you feel left out (or lacking something)
> ...


 
   
  I understand the reasoning behind why you have the headphones that you do, but I think the comparison isn't exactly... right. Between your ones the 668Bs are the best all around ones (for dolby headphones), even if lacking SQ, but what happens when they face phones like the AD900 (little bass) or HD598 (more bass) or D2000 (allot of bass)?
  If I was in the market for $100 hp, I'll probably pick them up without thinking twice... however I'm looking at spending up to $300, so what's the best money can get for that? (I'm not expecting you to know the answer, almost 2100 posts show it is a tricky question!)
   
  Do you know - will the STX be able to power your DT770 250 by itself?
  
  Also bump for the following question:
   
  Quote: 





> As for the d2000s, they are great for gaming, but movies are where I feel they truly shine with dh.


 
   
  Quote: 





> How is their soundstage? compare to AD700/900? considering they are closed...
> 
> and also is the bass too overpowering for competetive multiplayer?


----------



## Jae304

I've never heard the AD900s so I can't comment on those but the D2k can't really compete with the open backed AD700s in terms of sound stage.  They are impressive for a closed back headphone -- possibly one of, if not the best in that respect and price point but the 700s definitely have an advantage being open backed.  I've never had a problem playing online with them and don't feel the bass to be an issue but I guess that is just my opinion.  Besides, if you're playing on a PC, you could always EQ some bass out if you really feel it is intrusive.  
   
  I personally didn't like the AD700s much at all.  Their sound stage is nice but their lack of bass was something I found too boring.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





ancientwsidom said:


> I understand the reasoning behind why you have the headphones that you do, but I think the comparison isn't exactly... right. Between your ones the 668Bs are the best all around ones (for dolby headphones), even if lacking SQ, but what happens when they face phones like the AD900 (little bass) or HD598 (more bass) or D2000 (allot of bass)?
> If I was in the market for $100 hp, I'll probably pick them up without thinking twice... however I'm looking at spending up to $300, so what's the best money can get for that? (I'm not expecting you to know the answer, almost 2100 posts show it is a tricky question!)
> 
> Do you know - will the STX be able to power your DT770 250 by itself?


 
  It's not that the HD-668B is "best all around at Dolby Headphone", all my headphones would be good with Dolby Headphone.
  The DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm would be the best sound for anything, it's just the Xonar DX can't power it.
  The AD700 would be great for quiet movies (lots of talk) while using Dolby headphone 5.1, the openness of the AD700 means less ear fatigue.
  The DT-770 Pro 80-Ohms would be great Dolby Headphone 5.1 for action stuff were there is no talking.
  The one good advantage the HD-668B has over the DT-770s is the HD-668Bs are semi-open, heat builds up slower.
   
  Per the Asus Xonar Essence STX manual
  Headphone Impedance    "optimised for 32 to 600-Ohm"
   
  There is a thread on this site were all they talk about is the Essence STX
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread


----------



## BournePerfect

Sorry I'm not a PC gamer. other than for Doom and Half Life lol. Xbox360 here.
   
  -Daniel
  
  Quote: 





bojamijams said:


> Thanks for that. Thats two recommendations for Home Cinema.
> 
> Do you play on console or PC? If on PC, what setting do you use on your soundcard (and is Dolby Headphone enabled?)


----------



## BournePerfect

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Well, after careful consideration, I ordered akg q701's today. Hopefully this will be it for headphones for awhile because the wife is taking notice. I play alot of blk ops(freeforall)/mw2 on my days off and I am into audio gear. The 701's also require a burn in period? I'll check them out for games/music/movies and give a small review.


 

 I'm not sure about the Q line, but my K702's improved drastically with burn-in (300 hrs-ish) and proper amplification. They do get "loud enough" though out of the Mixamp...until you add in chat. Hope you have a quality amp in the meantime.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## SteelRain

just a quick question, what settings in the Xbox 360's guide button do you use for voice chat when using the mixamp, with the 668b's or ad700's? can it go through "headset"? because i thought the headphone had to have a built in voice channel for that to work?


----------



## Rebel975

I have my Xbox set to play voice through a headset only. This has been what I've used for the past 3 headphones I've owned.
   
  Since you connect your controller to the Mixamp with a chat cable you are effectively using a headphone with a "built in voice channel" regardless of what you connect to it.


----------



## BournePerfect

steelrain said:


> just a quick question, what settings in the Xbox 360's guide button do you use for voice chat when using the mixamp, with the 668b's or ad700's? can it go through "headset"? because i thought the headphone had to have a built in voice channel for that to work?




Hit the guide button, go to the farthest right blade, hit Preferences, then Voice. The options are there.

-Daniel


----------



## SteelRain

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I have my Xbox set to play voice through a headset only. This has been what I've used for the past 3 headphones I've owned.
> 
> Since you connect your controller to the Mixamp with a chat cable you are effectively using a headphone with a "built in voice channel" regardless of what you connect to it.


 

 Thank you, this is what i have been searching for for some time. If only there was an alternative as for me the mix amp is 160-5$(Australia).
  I would actually buy second hand if i could.


----------



## Riku540

I haven't been able to find any info at all on here yet so here it is:
   
  The Official PS3™ Wireless Stereo Headset:
  http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/wireless-stereo-headset-ps3.html
   
  While I don't have extremely high expectations, I wonder how this will compare to budget setups such as AD700 + Mixamp. Clearly the integrated mic is a huge plus for us console gamers since there aren't many _affordable_ solutions outside the PC360/PC350, and the fact that it's truly digital wireless is awesome; even less bulk and clutter than the Mixamp 5.8. I'm also very glad they're implementing 7.1 virtual surround instead of using a multiple driver setup. The $99 price tag seems too good to be true, but I'm hoping it will be a quality product for the price.


----------



## calpis

Sony's virtual surround headphone tech doesn't hold a candle to DH. I've used DH, Silent Cinema and Sony's VST and that's my order of preference when it comes to gaming while using ultrasone hfi2200's. I'd get it just for convenience but that would be about it. Amazon had them on preorder sale for either $70 or $80 a couple weeks back. I didn't preorder because I don't need to be wireless and I already have a HK receiver with DH.


----------



## BournePerfect

What HK are you using Calpis? I'm using the AVR 354 and it works absolutely fantastic for DH-plus a completely black noise floor unlike the DSS which I then gave to my little brother.
   
  As a side story: this was $600 receiver just a year or so ago. Someone was was selling it on Craigslist for $40 because it stopped putting out any sound whatsoever after a year of solid use he said. I bought it, took it home, and gave it a firmware update and it now works 100% perfect!ly in every area! I've been feeling pretty giddy these past few days as you might imagine!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## calpis

I'm using an AVR 254 that I traded a pair of TMA-1 headphones for with a friend of mine. Yeah, them HK's are pretty **** black, I love it.


----------



## Naked Snake

Sorry if anyone's offended or anything like that with my views, but honestly I did not hear it. It's not that I am trying to downplay the issue, I was just reporting my experience with the DSS. The most like reason is probably because I've never heard the Mixamp.
   
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Don't know why people wouldnt be able to hear the hiss. Even with apple stock buds I could hear a hiss, and the dss is considerably more audible. Even the other inline amps turtle beach produce for their headsets are very noisy-- I personally have no idea why they just can't get their amps right. I'm not trying to brag that I have super ears either, I can barely hear a difference from a dt990 amped through an iMac vs little dot anyways. Simply put, the quiet nature of the mixamp makes quiet scenes in single player mode much more believable. I do agree the feature the mixamp has over the dss though is its support for true voice chat and chat volume mixing for every headphone on the market.
> 
> As for the d2000s, they are great for gaming, but movies are where I feel they truly shine with dh.


----------



## BournePerfect

I for one think it's a pretty overblown issue here-having owned both the Mixamp and DSS for some time. It's more of something I noticed, rather than something that hindered my experience in any way. For someone who doesn't need a chat volume control-I think the DSS is the much better bargain-especially those who are mainly into SP gaming and movies.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> I for one think it's a pretty overblown issue here-having owned both the Mixamp and DSS for some time. *It's more of something I noticed, rather than something that hindered my experience in any way.* For someone who doesn't need a chat volume control-I think the DSS is the much better bargain-especially those who are mainly into SP gaming and movies.
> 
> -Daniel


 

 I think this has been the position of most of us that have commented on the hiss in this thread...at least that's my feeling on it. Like I said before, it's not a deal breaker at all but I figured that it should be mentioned for those that care about that sort of thing.


----------



## Dreaming Of A Better ... (Jun 19, 2020)

...


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





dreaming of a better ... said:


> good day fellow gamers
> 
> i'm using Fiio E9 & AKG K702 (using the onboard sound) and was wondering if i should buy the Fiio E7 ? i use the K702 only for gaming.


 


  E7 is mainly a DAC.. u don't  need it if you already have E9 and a console (or a decent soundcard if you play on PC)


----------



## sugiik

any info on fps gaming for ultrasone dj1pro, hfi680,hfi780,proline 750 ?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





sugiik said:


> any info on fps gaming for ultrasone dj1pro, hfi680,hfi780,proline 750 ?


 


  Keep in mind that Ultrasone Proline is an older series that has been superceded by the Pro series.


----------



## jbg1

what do i need to buy to make this mic work on the mixamp?
   
  i bought it thinking it would work...it works with the astro y adapter on my mac but not on the mixamp...i already have a labtec 7330 but it wont be here til mid sept so i just want this to hold me over till then...the mic sounded great when i recorded myself on my mac it was clear and crisp 
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/270734389979?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3309wt_956


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





jbg1 said:


> what do i need to buy to make this mic work on the mixamp?
> 
> i bought it thinking it would work...it works with the astro y adapter on my mac but not on the mixamp...i already have a labtec 7330 but it wont be here til mid sept so i just want this to hold me over till then...the mic sounded great when i recorded myself on my mac it was clear and crisp
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/270734389979?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_3309wt_956


 
   
  Are you using this on your PC, Xbox, or PS3? Xbox: is your controller connected to your mixamp? PS3: do you at least have the 2010 revision of the mixamp and is it plugged into your PS3's usb port? If you don't have the 2010 revision, do you have the ps3 chat cable connected?


----------



## jbg1

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Are you using this on your PC, Xbox, or PS3? Xbox: is your controller connected to your mixamp? PS3: do you at least have the 2010 revision of the mixamp and is it plugged into your PS3's usb port? If you don't have the 2010 revision, do you have the ps3 chat cable connected?


 
  its on xbox and yes i had the chat cable connected...when i connect it, it shows the mic make noise on mw2 but it doesnt pick up any noise


----------



## Rebel975

Probably because that mic only has one division (mono), and the Y splitter is made for devices with 2 divisions (stereo)? 

I assume you would need a mono to stereo adapter to make it work.


----------



## rayuma

My most recent headphone I used for gaming was the DT 770 Pro 80 with the Mixamp 5.8. The sound is great, but I'm looking for something open with a wider soundstage. I have the Dealextreme clip on mic and it works fine. 
   
  I'm looking at either the Q701 or the PC360. I will be using this for music as well, so I'm leaning towards the Q701. However, I have heard comments that the Q701 has an unnaturally large soundstage. Can anyone share their experiences with these two headphones?


----------



## jbg1

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Probably because that mic only has one division (mono), and the Y splitter is made for devices with 2 divisions (stereo)?
> 
> I assume you would need a mono to stereo adapter to make it work.


 


  but i used the splitter to see if it worked on my laptop and it did record my voice...
   
  ill buy an adapter hopefully my 7330 doesnt take too long to get here


----------



## Rebel975

Does your laptop have a single jack that does microphone in and headphone out? IDK, man. The only thing I can see different between your mic and the 7330 is the number of divisions.


----------



## Jae304

There is something else going on there, it's def not the divisions.  I use the deal extreme clip on with the mixamp on my ps3 with zero issues.  The DE clip on looks virtually identical to the mic he posted in that link.  
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Does your laptop have a single jack that does microphone in and headphone out? IDK, man. The only thing I can see different between your mic and the 7330 is the number of divisions.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> The bass enhancer on the wireless mixamp is really quite nice however I don't think it has any effect on the voice channel so it may not yield any advantage over the wired unit for you.  TBH, I don't think I tried using the bass enhancer when I tried this out yesterday as I have my pc sound eq'd to my liking already but based on my experience with it while gaming, I'm pretty sure it has no effect on that channel.  I'll try and remember to test it out sometime over the weekend and report back.


 
   
  Wanted to update this -- I was correct in that the bass enhancer does nothing for the sound when using the mixamp 5.8 through a PC-USB connection.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





rayuma said:


> I'm looking at either the Q701 or the PC360. I will be using this for music as well, so I'm leaning towards the Q701. However, I have heard comments that the Q701 has an unnaturally large soundstage. Can anyone share their experiences with these two headphones?


 

 I don't have any problems with the K702 soundstage at all.
   
  Maybe ppl that have both cans (MLE among others) can give you a direct comparison.


----------



## BournePerfect

I never had any problems with it's soundstage either. I also think if someone did find it weird or whatever, that they'd get used to it fairly quickly anyway-especially with games. My .02
   
  -Daniel


----------



## design

I'm a competitive gamer (played CS 1.6 during CAL Season 15 and 16) and dabble in competitive TF2 (pug Scout).  Looking to get into Counter-Strike: Global Offensive when it drops.  I'm looking for open cans with the best soundstage under $400 UNAMPED (I might be attending events, and even if it's a portable amp, it's a bit of a hassle).  From your suggestions, it looks like the HD598 and DT990 32 Ohm fit my needs the best.  How does the Audio Technica ATH-AD900 stack up to these?  Which of these are the best for positional audio unamped?  Thanks in advance.
   
  Also, does anbody know how the Hifiman HE-300 will be for PC gaming?


----------



## BournePerfect

DT 990 for cempetition play? No. Unamped...but...out of a Mixamp? If so the K702 will be best if you don't mix in chat. If not those, I'd look and an Ultrasone 2400 (open) before looking at the AD700. Any of these will be perfectly good though for you needs.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## design

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> DT 990 for cempetition play? No. Unamped...but...out of a Mixamp? If so the K702 will be best if you don't mix in chat. If not those, I'd look and an Ultrasone 2400 (open) before looking at the AD700. Any of these will be perfectly good though for you needs.
> 
> -Daniel


 


  Thanks for the reply.  I wasn't considering the HFI 2400, but after doing some research, they seem like a good buy.  I wonder how they stack up against the AD900, though, since they're both around the same price.  The AD900 fixes everything that people hated about the AD700 from the reviews I've looked at.
   
  Also, like I mentioned in my last post, does anybody know how good the Hifiman HE-300 would be for gaming?  I know for serious gaming, it probably isn't really a contender, but just for all-around use (music and gaming unamped), how is it?


----------



## MohawkUS

I found the AD900 a terrible headphone in every way, it has no bass, even with my Essence STX, on the other hand my Ultrasone PRO 2900s are the best gaming headphones I have heard yet, the combination of Slogic and Dolby is magical. I'm not a competitive player, but they do a great job in Fallout and other games where atmosphere is key. The 2400 should be very good as well. 

What I didn't like about the AD900 was that the soundstage sounded congested, it sounded like all the sounds were cramped together when there was a lot going on, what was great about them though is the sense of air behind the sound, but air won't help you in competitive gaming, you want accuracy. The 598 is more accurate, but I would consider it unusable unamped, its very grainy and under-powered sounding. Unfortunately my gaming computer was not working when I tried out the 598 so I only heard it through on board sound.

The AD900 was good unamped, my Ultrasones terrible, but the 2400 is supposedly a lot less demanding than my 2900s and meant to be run unamped.

My old Grados had really good positioning direction wise, but did not sound believable at all.


----------



## Psychochink

Quote: 





mohawkus said:


> I found the AD900 a terrible headphone in every way, it has no bass...the soundstage sounded congested, it sounded like all the sounds were cramped together when there was a lot going on, what was great about them though is the sense of air behind the sound, but air won't help you in competitive gaming, you want accuracy.


 
   
  "A terrible headphone in every way" is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think? Not your cup of tea, maybe, but that's an entirely different thing.
   
  To give a dissenting viewpoint - I find the AD900s extremely good. Do they have a _ton _of bass? No, but then in my opinion that's not what you want when trying to discern detail. Remember that he is talking about competitive gaming, not single-player gaming, which are very different beasts. That said, they still have enough bass for me (which the AD700s do not, incidentally).
   
  I would also dispute that they have a congested soundstage, I don't find that at all. But then, you're comparing amped headphones (PRO 2900s, 598s) with an unamped headphone (AD900) and of course amping is going to improve things, including soundstage. Apples and oranges.
   
  But he wants to use them unamped, which to my mind says the AD900s.


----------



## design

Thanks for all the replies.  I've narrowed by choice down to either the HFI 2400 or AD900.  So which one sounds better unamped?  More specifically, which one is able to project a wider soundstage for better positional accuracy unamped?


----------



## BournePerfect

S-logic and Dolby Headphone are made for each other-that's my opinion. The Pro 2400 should give a very good soundstage based on pretty much every other Ultrasone-plus it's open-backed so it should be even better, and more balanced (bass-wise) than the closed Ultrasones. I've never heard the AD900, but I've read quite a few people say they sound congested-but I'm sure others will disagree. For me: I'll recommend Ultrasone and S-Logic til the cows come home-until I hear something better for games (yes competetive gaming too) , and movies. You will need an amp however.
   
  You never answered before...what will be 'amping' these? A soundcard,Mixamp, what?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## design

Nothing.  I was serious when I said unamped.  Either onboard sound on PC or hooked straight up to the TV for when I play Xbox 360 for Halo: Reach MLG.  I don't have a MixAmp and am really not interested in one since I think they're way overpriced for what you get and they're provided at MLG events anyway.  As for a sound card, I just never got around to getting one and probably won't if I can get a set of headphones that can discern detail well enough unamped.  So does this change your answer any?
   
  You might think I'm being really stubborn for not wanting to get an amp or sound card, but honestly, I want something that I can use on multiple platforms without the sound signature changing too much between platforms.  I play Halo: Reach on Xbox 360, might play Gears of War 3 when it comes out, and also all the PC games I mentioned in my previous post.  So I think the best solution for me is just the headphone that projects the widest soundstage unamped.


----------



## MohawkUS

Actually no, I was using the AD900 amped, and the 598 unamped, but we all hear things differently so there really isn't any point arguing, its all my opinion, and like I said I don't game competitively anymore.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well if you want uniform sound you need a device that works across all platforms. The DSS is a great, cheap option at around $70.
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314302678&sr=8-1
  Plus you wanna get used to Dolby Headphone positioning before you go to a competition right? Does your pc have optical out. If so then the DSS should work fine with that-as well as Xbox/PS3. I haven't heard the 2400s, but I've read they aren't that power hugry, fwiw.
   
  -Daniel
  Quote: 





design said:


> Nothing.  I was serious when I said unamped.  Either onboard sound on PC or hooked straight up to the TV for when I play Xbox 360 for Halo: Reach MLG.  I don't have a MixAmp and am really not interested in one since I think they're way overpriced for what you get and they're provided at MLG events anyway.  As for a sound card, I just never got around to getting one and probably won't if I can get a set of headphones that can discern detail well enough unamped.  So does this change your answer any?
> 
> You might think I'm being really stubborn for not wanting to get an amp or sound card, but honestly, I want something that I can use on multiple platforms without the sound signature changing too much between platforms.  I play Halo: Reach on Xbox 360, might play Gears of War 3 when it comes out, and also all the PC games I mentioned in my previous post.  So I think the best solution for me is just the headphone that projects the widest soundstage unamped.


----------



## AncientWsidom

^^^^^ What he said
   
  Otherwise AD700/900 are the best unamped


----------



## Manu A

Hi guys.
   
  Awsome thread and thanks a bunch MLE for good info. I have a question for you guys that use the astro mixamp 5.8. I use it with my sennheiser pc360 the sound is good but when i have the mixamp tuned up to the volume i like I can here a noticable hiss from it, not as much as i did with my prior turtle beach px5 but it's still there. My volume setting is at about 70-80% and the mic balance is about 50%. I've noticed if I lower the mic balancer to zero the hiss follows and starts att about 60% of the main volume and increases with the volume.
   
  Are the sennheiser pc360 somewhat hard to drive with the mixamp 5.8, your experiences? And has anyone tried them with the fiio e3 or e5 with a positive result, thoughts?
   
  The sennheisers pc360 volume on the can is always on max otherwise I would have to compensate with the mixamp and put that on max. Also, plugging the headset in my macbook pro 13" it can get really loud if i want it to so it seems to work fine.
   
  Cheers
  Manu


----------



## reemixx

Thanks Mad Lust Envy and everyone who contributed to this thread for all the helpful info. Very, very useful stuff.
   
  I just picked up an Astro Mixamp + DT 770 Pro /80. I've been wanting to get into surround sound headphone gaming (and movies!) for a loooong time, and the Mixamp fit the bill. Not exactly the cheapest option, but worth the money, IMO. Lots of features + great sound + able to use with console *and* PC + allow you to use your own headphones = WIN.
   
  Also wanted some headphones that were more engaging and fun than my AD700's (which are my main headphones for music). I do love the AD700's, particularly the soundstage, but I don't do any competitive gaming at all and just wanted something that would be more immersive and have more bass. The DT 770 Pro (80 ohms) were the perfect choice for me because:
   
  a) They're completely different and complementary to the AD700's. Different cans for different uses, y'know. They're probably as different from each other as you could get.
  
  b) More bass helps the immersion, there's a good amount of isolation, and the soundstage is definitely still there (especially with Dolby Headphone).
  
  c) They were affordable enough to use solely for games and movies. Though, I discovered I like them a lot for certain styles of music too. Bonus!
   
  Out of the box, the DT 770's sounded almost defective (I knew there'd be a mid-range dip, but that was just crazy). Anyway, They've had about 30 hours on them so far and sound MUCH better. Voices in games and movies sound a hell of a lot clearer now. I'm hoping that will improve even further, as I've been spoilt by how well and clear voices sound with the AD700's.
   
  I've spent a couple of gaming sessions with this setup so far, and I'm loving it. Haven't tried any movies yet, but I'm looking forward to that. And I'll also try the Mixamp with the AD700's, just to see what everyone's raving about (positional accuracy, etc, even though I don't do any competitive gaming).


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





reemixx said:


> Thanks Mad Lust Envy and everyone who contributed to this thread for all the helpful info. Very, very useful stuff.
> 
> I just picked up an Astro Mixamp + DT 770 Pro /80. I've been wanting to get into surround sound headphone gaming (and movies!) for a loooong time, and the Mixamp fit the bill. Not exactly the cheapest option, but worth the money, IMO. Lots of features + great sound + able to use with console *and* PC + allow you to use your own headphones = WIN.
> 
> ...


 
  I liked my DT-770 Pro 80-Ohms so much, I went and bought the DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm version.
  and I still use my AD700s for easy and relaxing stuff.


----------



## reemixx

Quote: 





tacoboy said:


> I liked my DT-770 Pro 80-Ohms so much, I went and bought the DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm version.
> and I still use my AD700s for easy and relaxing stuff.


 

 I went for the 80 ohm version just to be on the safe side with the Mixamp, and so I could drive it comfortably with my Zhaolu's headphone amp. I'm glad I did, too; comfortable listening volume is 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock on the Zhaolu. I reckon it's a good choice for a good all-rounder multimedia headphone, as long as you have access to a basic amp. _Really_ don't like how the 770 Pro 80's sound unamped. They sound boring, and the bass goes all over the place. But amped, they're something else _entirely_.
   
  Do you use the 250 ohm version for gaming, or still use the 80's for that?
   
  It's funny; I find the Beyers have a less fatiguing sound than the AD700's, yet I use them for the most dynamic and full-on sounds (electronic music, and movies 'n games with lots of explosions 'n stuff). The AD700's I find have a more lively sound (it's those mids and treble), yet I use them for more relaxing stuff, like you. Their comfort definitely helps. I want to upgrade them to something else, but I still don't know what, and I don't know if I could ever bring myself to get rid of them. Unless you hate the fit, they're a hard headphone to dislike.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





reemixx said:


> I went for the 80 ohm version just to be on the safe side with the Mixamp, and so I could drive it comfortably with my Zhaolu's headphone amp. I'm glad I did, too; comfortable listening volume is 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock on the Zhaolu. I reckon it's a good choice for a good all-rounder multimedia headphone, as long as you have access to a basic amp. _Really_ don't like how the 770 Pro 80's sound unamped. They sound boring, and the bass goes all over the place. But amped, they're something else _entirely_.
> 
> Do you use the 250 ohm version for gaming, or still use the 80's for that?
> 
> It's funny; I find the Beyers have a less fatiguing sound than the AD700's, yet I use them for the most dynamic and full-on sounds (electronic music, and movies 'n games with lots of explosions 'n stuff). The AD700's I find have a more lively sound (it's those mids and treble), yet I use them for more relaxing stuff, like you. Their comfort definitely helps. I want to upgrade them to something else, but I still don't know what, and I don't know if I could ever bring myself to get rid of them. Unless you hate the fit, they're a hard headphone to dislike.


 
  I've been out of PC gaming for about 8 years, I get PC games for Christmas and birthdays, but they sit on a shelf.
  I use the 250-Ohm hooked to my Onkyo receiver for late night T.V. or DVD/Blu-ray movies or use a small single tube amp. which also allows me to use the 250-Ohm with my computer (Xonar DX).
  So I really do not use the 80-Ohm anymore.
  Got a used Asus Xonar Essence STX this week, now I can plug the 250-Ohms directly into my sound card.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Care to share the difference between to the Pro 80 and Pro-250? I heard they were completely different beasts in that the Pro 80 is quite bass heavy (and I can attest to that), and the Pro 250 were more monitoring style/flat. I have only heard the Pro 80 and PREMIUM 600 ohm for the 770s.

Why am I posting? Just out of the blue. Lol.


----------



## Tacoboy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Care to share the difference between to the Pro 80 and Pro-250? I heard they were completely different beasts in that the Pro 80 is quite bass heavy (and I can attest to that), and the Pro 250 were more monitoring style/flat. I have only heard the Pro 80 and PREMIUM 600 ohm for the 770s.
> 
> Why am I posting? Just out of the blue. Lol.


 

 I'm going to do a fresh comparison between the 80 and 250 later today.


----------



## BournePerfect

This might help:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Read that countless times. I wanted to hear his own impressions. Always good to hear other opinions on headphones.


----------



## halcyon

Would really like to hear Pro 900 vs XB1000 comparison for 3D headphone virtualization FPS gaming from those who have heard and actually tested both in games.
   
  Neither are going to win any accolades for musical or tonal correctness, but fun factor and positioning accuracy comparison would be interesting.


----------



## Gamabunta

Hello everyone! I'm about to get some PC360 and a mixamp as I heard wonders from this combo 
   
  But I've never heard Dolby Headphone before, just played stereo. Please tell me that Dolby Headphone is better than this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrk2W_r5fc&fmt=18 'cause this is a bit crappy sound. I saw this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fligG_SLnOc&feature=related and is f*uckin great, I hope DD is more like this last one. But this last one is binaural recording so I think is better than DD.


----------



## rayuma

Dolby Headphone is great for positional audio, I can't imagine playing any game without it.
   
  Has anyone used this mic?
   
http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMEM1-Headworn-Omni-Directional-Microphone/dp/B003D2S7HA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1315029359&sr=8-4
   
  I'm looking for an alternative to a clip on mic


----------



## Adrian Peterson

you should buy the  Labtec LVA7330 it's a good mic


----------



## Rebel975

Or this...
   
  http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hyundai-soft-neck-laptop-microphone-4468
   
  You'd need a 1/8" female to male cable, which can be had for next to nothing + the cost of shipping.


----------



## mafiamike

Hello gamers, my Q701's came in! The headband is pretty comfy and audio cues are good. I can tell from the front/back(footsteps) no problem and no ear fatigue after long hrs of gaming. I have them hooked up th the fiio E9 and then the mixamp. I'll keep tested them out some more before I give my review.


----------



## Naked Snake

Look forward to it. I see you own/ed the Ad700s, would love to see a comparison.
  
  Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Hello gamers, my Q701's came in! The headband is pretty comfy and audio cues are good. I can tell from the front/back(footsteps) no problem and no ear fatigue after long hrs of gaming. I have them hooked up th the fiio E9 and then the mixamp. I'll keep tested them out some more before I give my review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mafiamike said:


> Hello gamers, my Q701's came in! The headband is pretty comfy and audio cues are good. I can tell from the front/back(footsteps) no problem and no ear fatigue after long hrs of gaming. I have them hooked up th the fiio E9 and then the mixamp. I'll keep tested them out some more before I give my review.




Please elaborate how you're keeping a Dolby Digital signal from the E9 to the Mixamp. It should be the other way around, since you've been feeding the Mixamp a stereo signal from the E9, whereas the Mixamp would feed a Dolby headphone signal to the E9...


----------



## sugiik

Quote: 





sugiik said:


> any info on fps gaming for ultrasone dj1pro, hfi680,hfi780,proline 750 ?


 


   


  Quote: 





roller said:


> Keep in mind that Ultrasone Proline is an older series that has been superceded by the Pro series.


 

 so could anyone tell my is there significant differences in sound quality/sig from old and new batch of pro-proline 750 ?
  and saw on some reading, that some ppl prefer pro 550 over 750 ? is 750 lack of some soundstage/bass ?


----------



## mafiamike

Yeah, its the other way around, the mixamp(hooked up to 360 with optical), the fiio E9( hooked to the mixamp with the 3.5 mm cable),I bought some mid price cable then the q701's hooked into the fiio E9.I'm using the 1/4  cord. I still own the ad 700's and I'll hook them up tonight afterwork and I'll get back to you. I don't know if all cans  are like this but when there is a chopper in the air (blk ops/mw2)it overides the other sounds like footsteps coming near you. So far,  I have only 20hrs on the 701's. I'd like to thank ENVY for this thread because I wouldnt have known these headphones existed. My online gaming sure improved, and the other day some fella invited me to try out for his clan because I did so well on FFA(blk ops).


----------



## reemixx

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Or this...
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/hyundai-soft-neck-laptop-microphone-4468
> 
> You'd need a 1/8" female to male cable, which can be had for next to nothing + the cost of shipping.


 

 This is exactly what I bought, but from eBay instead. The mic looks exactly the same. It works okay, but the sound is a bit crackly. Might be the cheapo cable, though, I'll have to investigate. Even so, AU$2.50 ain't bad, and it works great with the Mixamp. The only downside of doing it this way is that there's no mic mute switch.
   
  Now I've just got to figure out a way to connect it to my DT770s. Velcro didn't quite work as I intended; keeps peeling off and it's not stable enough. Might look into something more permanent anyway.


----------



## Rebel975

I use a piece of hanger shaped to fit around the earpad with a microphone attached to it. It's non permanent and stable.

I've actually bought some cable sleeving and plan on seeing if I can't embed a 1/8" female to female connector piece into an earpad. Then the mic and cable would both be detachable.


----------



## aTlantiz

@Mad Lust Envy
  thanks heaps for this wite up man....****, i can say im an avid gamer and im using steelseries siberia...its good until i read this xD....jawdrop completely
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  hence im planning on getting pc360 or ad700
   
  do i need a new soundcard or even an amp to get the full gaming benefits from these headsets? im using a laptop with onboard soundcard btw
   
  much love and respect!
   
  ~bill


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not a PC gamer, but I would look into whatever soundcard has Dolby headphone/Dolby Digital Live, like the Asus Essence STX... sorry, I really don't know about soundcards.

None of these headsets need much, so an amp isn't necessary.


----------



## AncientWsidom

Quote: 





atlantiz said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> thanks heaps for this wite up man....****, i can say im an avid gamer and im using steelseries siberia...its good until i read this xD....jawdrop completely
> 
> 
> ...


 


  For Dolby Headphones you will definitely need a soundcard (or MixAmp? not sure..) which you will want for better sound quality anyway (onboard is ####). The AD700 do not need an amp, not 100% sure about the PC360, but at 50ohm and sensitivity of 112 I'd guess they would be fine without, and could improve with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My PC360 didn't improve anything remotely near worthwhile with either my E9 or Lyr, so no, they don't need an amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rented Resistance 3 for the PS3. Dolby Headphone does WONDERS for this game with my PC360s. A perfect demo for Dolby Headphone.

Just make sure the PS3 audio settings is set for Dolby Digital, and that the in game audio setting is set to Automatic (the game also has a Headphone and Dolby Pro Logic II options which are the wrong options). I mistakenly had the PS3 settings set to the defaults (I had tested the PS3 with another TV earlier, and it changed my sound settings), which didn't have DD checked. The game sound so flat, with no front/back separation. 

The Dolby pro Logic II option in the game was... awful. Nothing like what I remembered Pro Logic II sounding like off the PS2 and Wii through the Mixamp.


----------



## chavan30

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Rented Resistance 3 for the PS3. Dolby Headphone does WONDERS for this game with my PC360s. A perfect demo for Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Just make sure the PS3 audio settings is set for Dolby Digital, and that the in game audio setting is set to Automatic (the game also has a Headphone and Dolby Pro Logic II options which are the wrong options). I mistakenly had the PS3 settings set to the defaults (I had tested the PS3 with another TV earlier, and it changed my sound settings), which didn't have DD checked. The game sound so flat, with no front/back separation.
> 
> The Dolby pro Logic II option in the game was... awful. Nothing like what I remembered Pro Logic II sounding like off the PS2 and Wii through the Mixamp.


 

 i agree. the sound in this game is amazing. i had the game set to dolby digital and i will change to automatic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is no Dolby Digital option in the game, unless you meant Pro Logic II. Lol. I meant making sure the PS3 audio setting has Dolby Digital checked, and the Resistance 3 audio setting being on Automatic. That is the correct setup for the Dolby Headphone devices (as they're meant to take a Dolby Digital source).


----------



## chavan30

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There is no Dolby Digital option in the game, unless you meant Pro Logic II. Lol. I meant making sure the PS3 audio setting has Dolby Digital checked, and the Resistance 3 audio setting being on Automatic. That is the correct setup for the Dolby Headphone devices (as they're meant to take a Dolby Digital source).


 

 got it. i misspoke. meant pro logic II


----------



## NoValidTitle

So I read the whole first post and the last 10 or so pages of the thread. It seems there is a lot of discussion on this. I want to get a mixamp so I can use voice chat, that's a must. I don't really want to add another amp after the mixamp so I guess the best route to go since I want a mic as well would be the PC360 headset? I will be using this for Black Ops on 360.


----------



## Vonx

Nice post man!
   
  I have the ax720s and all though they arent they most pleasant sounding headphones they do have placement and soundstage down to a notch (sort of like your AD700s)
   
  I have the tritton amp but i cant use it on my current set up right now because my TV is ghetto and wont support the optical connection the ax720 amp needs.
   
  How does the a40 mix amp connect? I need to make sure it is capable of use on my current rig before i jump for it
   
  thanks


----------



## Eric_C

Once again guys, if you want to know how to connect the MixAmp, check the company website (AstroGaming.com). They have the manuals in PDF there.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Once again guys, if you want to know how to connect the MixAmp, check the company website (AstroGaming.com). They have the manuals in PDF there.


 


  already found it. Its optical. Looks like im not getting it


----------



## tdockweiler

If you want a good competitive gaming headphones when a closed one is required, I'd suggest looking into the KRK KNS-6400. It's a studio monitor that's dirt cheap at $99, doesn't have a lot of bass and has TONS of detail. There's even some forward mids that actually helps in games. Nothing too bad. Probably one of the clearest sounding headphones under $200. The 8400 is also good, but a step down for gaming due to it's more relaxed mids.
   
  Trust me, just try the 6400. You can even upgrade it's pads with memory foam which make it one of the most comfortable headphones there is.
   
  Another one I'm addicted to for gaming is the K501. It's soundstage is massive, but unlike the K702, nothing feels too distant. It's soundstage is just more accurate. Too bad it's so hard to find. Might be some good competition for the ATH-AD2000, which was an old favorite for gaming.


----------



## Eric_C

Vonx: I'm not understanding why your TV has anything to do with supporting optical input for audio. That's got to do with your console. What console are you trying to hook up to you AX720?


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Vonx: I'm not understanding why your TV has anything to do with supporting optical input for audio. That's got to do with your console. What console are you trying to hook up to you AX720?


 


  My TV uses an adapter that forces me to not be able to use my HDMI cable (with the optical plug) and use a different one entirely that has a different plug in jack. Its easily 15 years old but its my current set up so i cant really do anything about it. I was just hoping the astro didnt use optical and would plug in a different way so that i could still use this TV with my sound whores haha
   
  i play sexbox of course, do PSN players even take gaming that seriously as to buy headphones? news to me haha (just kidding, but no seriously)


----------



## Eric_C

Ohhhh. Sorry I didn't think of that possibility. Hm, would you say your TV is making you use these cables:

   
  If that's the case, a wired MixAmp will still let you connect it:


----------



## calpis

To use the mixamp in it's most optimal way, you connect your console directly to the mixamp via optical cable. If your xbox is one of the older ones, the "fat", then you're connecting the console to the tv with xbox AV connector.
   




   
  You connect the mixamp to this plug, the black square on the back of it (pay no attention to the red arrow). Whether what connection you use to connect your xbox to the tv has nothing to do with the mixamp since it's directly connected to the console and NOT the TV. The only time when you need to purchase another cable that didn't originally come with your xbox is if you're connecting the xbox fat w/hdmi via hdmi to the TV. This should clear everything up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^This. Don't ever connect connect to your TV for your audio needs. If you're looking into the Mixamp, getting the feed from the TV will be horrible, as TVs tend to downconvert all audio signals to basic stereo. The fact that you have a very old TV is even worse. You will NOT be getting any relatively good virtual surround off the Mixamp if you connect it to the TV.

Feed it directly from the console, no ands ifs or buts.


----------



## Rebel975

And if you need to connect via HDMI (like I do) then you can get a Xbox360 Audio Breakout Dongle.


----------



## Setre

[size=medium]Hey everyone, I currently own a pair of ATH-AD900s and while I really like them I’ve been thinking of getting some new headphones that really immerse you in the game. I wouldn’t be using these with an amp (besides the Astro MixAMP when gaming on PS3/360) and I have a Creative X-Fi Titanium HD sound card in my PC. I also use my AD900s on my 3DS and PSP so the new cans would be used with those as well, and the Vita whenever it comes out.[/size]
   
  [size=medium]I was looking at the Premium DT990 (32 OHM Version) but I’m open to suggestions as I’d like to spend a max of $300. [/size]


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ^This. Don't ever connect connect to your TV for your audio needs. If you're looking into the Mixamp, getting the feed from the TV will be horrible, as TVs tend to downconvert all audio signals to basic stereo. The fact that you have a very old TV is even worse. You will NOT be getting any relatively good virtual surround off the Mixamp if you connect it to the TV.
> 
> Feed it directly from the console, no ands ifs or buts.


 


  thanks man, i know, i used that set up with my 720s on my downstairs set up for about 2 years so i know the connection, haha. 
   
  the new TV just uses some prehistoric converter cable that i dont even understand but what it essentially does is remove the HDMI cable (with the three colored prongs) altogether and plugs in to the back of your xbox in replacement of the HDMI cable and plugs the other side into some dinosaur esque single jack 
   
  ill just try and re-set up downstairs, its all good
   
  thanks for helping guys


----------



## Rebel975

Is it a coaxial connector or what?


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Is it a coaxial connector or what?


 


  haha i just opened up my TV from the back of the wall and swallowed a plethora of dust hahaha. 
   
  YES, its a coaxial connector!
   
  maybe its not as prehistoric as i thought but thats the only way i can connect my xbox to my TV haha
   
  unfortunately that cord replaces the standard HDMI cord so


----------



## Rebel975

It's an old connection type for sure, but not prehistoric. I guess it depends on how old you are. I grew up on coaxial connectors. 


All you need is a HDMI to composite convertor, RF Modulator, and then the Xbox Audio Breakout Dongle that I posted earlier. 


Actually, now that I look at it this is getting pretty complicated. It would be far easier to work with a different TV. You'd need to buy three devices just to use the Mixamp. Not worth it.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> It's an old connection type for sure, but not prehistoric. I guess it depends on how old you are. I grew up on coaxial connectors.
> 
> 
> All you need is a HDMI to composite convertor, RF Modulator, and then the Xbox Audio Breakout Dongle that I posted earlier.
> ...


 


  hahaha i feel u.
   
  thanks for the knowledge though, you cant put a price on that


----------



## calpis

All you need is an RF modulator. Connect  the Composite cables from the stock hybrid component/composite cables that come with your xbox when you buy it new to the RF modulator  and bingo bango you get images on your tv. Then grab a cheap optical cable and plug it into the mixamp.
   
  There's no point in going from HDMI to Composite if the xbox can already output Composite. And an RF modulator will run you  $10-20.


----------



## Rebel975

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking.


----------



## grimzz R

Quote: 





vonx said:


> My TV uses an adapter that forces me to not be able to use my HDMI cable (with the optical plug) and use a different one entirely that has a different plug in jack. Its easily 15 years old but its my current set up so i cant really do anything about it. I was just hoping the astro didnt use optical and would plug in a different way so that i could still use this TV with my sound whores haha
> 
> i play sexbox of course, do PSN players even take gaming that seriously as to buy headphones? news to me haha (just kidding, but no seriously)


 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FptCB_3DOz4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol@coaxial input. I used that input for years, even when I had composite inputs. I didn't care about PQ back then. But yeah, an RCA to coaxial converter is cheap and lets you use the audio dongle for the 360 to the Mixamp, while still letting you use your old tv. Good luck.


----------



## dachness

Mad Lusts Envy, do you have any plans on trying out Panasonic RP-HTF600-S? It is reviewed here, and in post number 3 is said to be better at soundstage than HD595s. Seems like it might be a good lower budget setup if you don't mind adding a mic to it. 
   
  Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, not interested in budget cans. That's what the KSC35/75 are for.

I am however super interested in the Official Sony PS3 Headset that has 7.1 virtual surround, wireless, and all for less than $100.

Not that I'd get it, since I doubt they'd compare to the PC360 + Mixamp, but I am curious as to how Sony's virtual surround compares to Dolby Headphone, and whether it's a good deal consididerng what you're getting. They 'sound' like a winner, but how do they SOUND? 

http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Stereo-Headset-Playstation-3/dp/B0053OLY9O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316048567&sr=8-1

Problem is, it only works on the PS3 and PC. No XBox 360 support... obviously.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, not interested in budget cans. That's what the KSC35/75 are for.
> 
> I am however super interested in the Official Sony PS3 Headset that has 7.1 virtual surround, wireless, and all for less than $100.
> 
> ...


 

 haha they look mad dumb. although i cant really talk with my trittons hahaha


----------



## Eric_C

Trittons definitely look better than having 2xPS2 strapped to your head.
   
  Btw guys, since we're all gamers here I thought I'd ask if anyone's keen to play 24 hours for charity:
  http://www.extra-life.org/


----------



## dachness

Regarding the Official PS3 headset. After reading the reviews on Amazon it seems they are no where near the quality of dolby headphone and say even the KSC75s. One review was saying that he preferred gaming in stereo with his other headphones compared to the Sony's. 
   
  The main way the PS3 headset gives value is an all in one package(surround processing, headphones, mic/chat, wireless). The cheapest setup you could get for the PS3 (with out wireless) would be Earforce DSS, KSC75, USB Mic input, clipon/boom mic and totaling around $94. It would likely outperform the PS3 headset but lack the finer details(wireless, chat/game mixing)


----------



## calpis

You really gotta take reviews saying that playing in stereo is better than virtual surround with a grain of salt because the virtual stuff is an acquired taste, you gotta get used to it first. 
   
  I really want to try it out to see if their tech has improved at all but it'll be very hard to judge it against my setup because I just can't use the decoder from the Sony headphones. I have the Sony MDR DS1000 decoder box (didn't even bother trying the cheap headphones that came with it) that uses the Sony's version of DH and it's not as good as the real thing or even Silent Cinema. I might give it a try again later on but the noise floor on that thing ain't that great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> You really gotta take reviews saying that playing in stereo is better than virtual surround with a grain of salt because the virtual stuff is an acquired taste, you gotta get used to it first.
> 
> I really want to try it out to see if their tech has improved at all but it'll be very hard to judge it against my setup because I just can't use the decoder from the Sony headphones. I have the Sony MDR DS1000 decoder box (didn't even bother trying the cheap headphones that came with it) that uses the Sony's version of DH and it's not as good as the real thing or even Silent Cinema. I might give it a try again later on but the noise floor on that thing ain't that great.




^This.

There are a lot of naysayers about virtual surround, even on this very site. People haven't even heard Dolby Headphone with a good pair of cans and the right game, and automatically prefer stereo. Seen it way too much on here.

I hear a lot of people say they get perfect positional accuracy from stereo, when all I hear is sound almost in a 2d space, mostly all just left and right with a very LITTLE amount of front/rear depth. Nothing compares to a good 360 degree space like DH does for me.


----------



## matryx

Haeleus 
  where did you get the PC360 and HD598? I'm curious as I'm also in Canada and would like to try these out before committing to it.


----------



## JamesMcProgger

Warning: shameless advertising ahead
   
  Guys mind drop your vote here: Petition for a "Video Games Lounge" subforum
   
  ps: if you are gonna vote 'no' better not to bother 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  thanks.


----------



## JudgeDreadLocks

I don't know if anyone brought this up, but has anyone used the 
 [size=1.7em] "Ear Force DSS 7.1 Channel Dolby Surround Sound Processor"[/size]
 [size=1.7em] http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1316361877&sr=8-3[/size]
 [size=1.7em] Curious to know how it stacks up against the astro mixamp. If the differences are negligable, I might have to pick this up.[/size]
 [size=1.7em] Sorry if this was mentioned before, I didn't want to read through 140+ pages.[/size]


----------



## TMRaven

Yes it's been brought up a couple times.  Both the DSS and Mixamp offer the same dh processing, but the key differences are that Mixmap offers voice chat/game volume mixing while the DSS does not, so it's truly compatible with all 3rd party headphones and mics, while the DSS offers a bass boost.  The mixamp also has a lower noise floor than the DSS, as DSS you'll hear a static hiss even at the lowest volumes.


----------



## Tartik

akg702+mixamp, what else do i need? want it to work with gaming and music/films, should i get something else even?


----------



## obazavil

akg 702 is wonderful, but if you want to hear explosions and everything with a lot of impact, maybe pc360 should be better (it has bass boost).
   
  anyway, i do love my k702 with mixamp


----------



## Tartik

Hmm honestly I don't really care for explosions that much, I'm looking for some competetive headphones, so I can hear where the enemies are at etc . Do i need anything else than the k702 & mixamp? a soundcard or something? I'm completely new to this .

 Thanks


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





tartik said:


> Hmm honestly I don't really care for explosions that much, I'm looking for some competetive headphones, so I can hear where the enemies are at etc . Do i need anything else than the k702 & mixamp? a soundcard or something? I'm completely new to this .
> 
> Thanks


 


  For competitive (FPS and such) they are GREAT.
   
  If you play from ps3/xbox you only need mixamp+k702.
   
  If you play from pc/laptop, you need something with optical output (for pc, asus xonar i think is good)


----------



## Tartik

Okay, yeah its for pc, I already got an opctical output in my motherboard I think(motherboard ga-x58a-ud3r), should I buy asus xonar anyhow? Thanks for ur answers !


----------



## obazavil

Nah... you are cool if you already have optical output 
   
  The decoding will be done by mixamp... you just need a toslink cable to connect optical -> mixamp -> k702


----------



## jm78

Need a little guidance, for best sound card under $100.  Never bought a sound card before.
   
  Found this for $40, the asus xonar u3:  http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_U3/#specifications
   
  Is there something else better I should get, that is under $100?  Will use for 80% gaming, 10% movies, 10% music.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Nah... you are cool if you already have optical output
> 
> The decoding will be done by mixamp... you just need a toslink cable to connect optical -> mixamp -> k702


 
   
  Wouldn't that require the S/PDIF output device to have Dolby Digital Live so everything's encoded on-the-fly to begin with? A lot of games apparently keep their channels in PCM and can't encode into Dolby Digital in real-time. S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for stereo PCM. If Dolby Headphone only gets stereo, I just don't see it working as intended.
   
  On the other hand, the Mixamp does have a mini-USB port on the back. Maybe it doubles as a USB audio device for PCs?
   
  Quote: 





jm78 said:


> Need a little guidance, for best sound card under $100.  Never bought a sound card before.
> 
> Found this for $40, the asus xonar u3:  http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_U3/#specifications
> 
> Is there something else better I should get, that is under $100?  Will use for 80% gaming, 10% movies, 10% music.


 

 First off: Does it need to be USB, or can you get an internal sound card?
   
  Second off: Which games do you play? If you still like older titles, you'll probably want EAX 3-5 support. With newer titles, it's more of a matter of what binaural surround HRTF tech suits you better.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Wouldn't that require the S/PDIF output device to have Dolby Digital Live so everything's encoded on-the-fly to begin with? A lot of games apparently keep their channels in PCM and can't encode into Dolby Digital in real-time. S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for stereo PCM. If Dolby Headphone only gets stereo, I just don't see it working as intended.


 
   
  Hmm.. yeah.. that's true.. mixamp supports USB  I have never tried my mixamp attached to my computer, 100% is with my ps3 only.
   
  Regarding optical and games... well, that depends on the game, isn't it?
  If the game only sends stereo, mixamp will receive stereo. If the games can send encoded signal to the digital (dolby), mixamp will process it and turn it into dolby headphone.
   
  I use the optical of my macbook to send dolby 5.1 to my HT when watching 720p movies without any problems at all.


----------



## jm78

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> First off: Does it need to be USB, or can you get an internal sound card?
> 
> Second off: Which games do you play? If you still like older titles, you'll probably want EAX 3-5 support. With newer titles, it's more of a matter of what binaural surround HRTF tech suits you better.


 

 It doesn't have to be USB, I can use a regular pci slot.  Although, my PCI-e slot is covered by a graphics card, so that's unusable.
   
  I play mostly newer titles.  Have no idea which binaural surround HRTF I would like better.  Actually, I don't even know what HRTF stands for.  Is dolby headphone not the best option for most gamers?
   
  This pci card seems to have better specs and is cheaper than the u3 i mentioned earlier, asus sonar dg:  http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_DG/#specifications
   
  Seems useful as it has a headphone amp like the asus u3.


----------



## jm78

Hmm, seems like the nicer sound cards all use the PCI-e slot.  Wonder if the asus xonar dg will be lacking.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Hmm.. yeah.. that's true.. mixamp supports USB  I have never tried my mixamp attached to my computer, 100% is with my ps3 only.
> 
> Regarding optical and games... well, that depends on the game, isn't it?
> If the game only sends stereo, mixamp will receive stereo. If the games can send encoded signal to the digital (dolby), mixamp will process it and turn it into dolby headphone.
> ...






 Most PC games I'm aware of keep their channels in uncompressed PCM to begin with. Some might have the ability to send Dolby Digital on-the-fly without a sound card that has Dolby Digital Live, but most don't to my knowledge. If they insist on using PCM, and S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for two channels in PCM...you see where this is going.
   
  This was likely done because PCs went with extra analog channels for surround speaker setups instead of making like the home theater market.
   

  Quote: 





jm78 said:


> It doesn't have to be USB, I can use a regular pci slot.  Although, my PCI-e slot is covered by a graphics card, so that's unusable.
> 
> I play mostly newer titles.  Have no idea which binaural surround HRTF I would like better.  Actually, I don't even know what HRTF stands for.  Is dolby headphone not the best option for most gamers?
> 
> ...


 

 HRTF = Head Related Transfer Function. It's the term used to describe your head's physical effects on incoming sounds. For binaural surround techniques, matching up the HRTF used with your own would be ideal, but technologies like CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone use a generic or average HRTF for the most part.
   
  I use X-Fi cards (still play a lot of older games and want the EAX), so I use CMSS-3D Headphone. It's practically an aural wallhack for me, but there's been so many debates about how it compares to Dolby Headphone that I can't really chime into because I don't have any means of using Dolby Headphone in games. Some prefer one, others prefer the other. That's all I can say, really.
   
  Given that the Xonar DG costs only $20-30 these days, it's worth a shot. Look into these drivers if that's what you choose.


----------



## jm78

Yeah, just ordered the xonar dg.  Hopefully will work good, will let you guys know how it sounds.


----------



## Timbeh

I just ordered the old- fashion wired mixamp. I´m a PC gamer, with titles like WoW, Red Orchestra and in the future BF3, naturally. I currently have Sennheiser HD555 and HD600 headphones, and i´m wondering how much of the capability i´m getting with these phones out of the mixamp? Do i need fast upgrade to the phones mentioned in first post, how big is the difference?


----------



## jTizMLG

@Mad Lust Envy
   
  You should review the Razer Carcharias and SteelSeries Siberia V2.
   
  There both highly recommended on the MLG technology forums.
   
  I hear the Carcharias or a bit better then the V2 but the V2 has noise canceling which is ideal for LANs.


----------



## NamelessPFG

If we're going to throw review suggestions his way, I'd like to hear his thoughts on the Lambda-series Stax models, even the vintage ones (if anyone can find them for sale; with all luck, you can get one for under $300 with a transformer box).
   
  Not quite SR-007 or SR-009-level (he said "high-end Stax", so that's what came to mind), but spending that much for a gaming headphone would be a bit excessive. (Then again, some would say that anything Stax is already high-end.)


----------



## Armaegis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA3vUtY7Io8
   
  Here's a song I came across that does a pretty good job of showing how strong bass affects your direction sense.The first 20 seconds the sounds are almost binaural as they jump from side to side, and there's a couple brief chord that are almost dizzying the way it warbles back and forth between your ears. Then the bass line kicks in nice and solid. Now listen for the same intro theme, especially when the chord hits. That sense of back and forth between the ears is severely diminished.
   
  This song also happens to be a good example of showing how lousy the youtube audio quality is. Find yourself a better version of the song and you can immediately notice the difference in the staging.


----------



## RapidPulse

Just saw that Sennheiser has a new headset coming out for the Xbox 360  (Model: X 320)
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/xbox-360-headset-gaming-x-320-504199
   
  Anyone have any details other than what is mentioned there? 
   
  The MSRP ($149) is quite a bit less than the PC360 ...and it is amplified.  Probably safe to assume sound quality isn't in same league as PC360?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





rapidpulse said:


> Just saw that Sennheiser has a new headset coming out for the Xbox 360  (Model: X 320)
> http://www.sennheiserusa.com/xbox-360-headset-gaming-x-320-504199
> 
> Anyone have any details other than what is mentioned there?
> ...


 

 Hm! That's very interesting... I never thought Sennheiser would make a console-only headset.
  The "flip-to-mute" mic design sounds like an excellent idea.


----------



## TruckTurner

*Conclusion (if you'd like to skip the wall of text below): The combo of the Sennheiser HD598's and Astro 5.8 MixAmp is a fantastic one for immersion in gaming.  And the HD598's are absolutely great for music.  *
   
  I just wanted to come in here and thank all of the posters (148 pages worth!!!) for their insights and recommendations.  I finally copped the Sennheiser HD598's and the Astro 5.8 Mixamp last night and I have to say I'm very pleased with both.  The HD598s are fantastic with music and their gaming immersion is excellent.  I played Crysis 2 last night and had no problems picking out where sounds were coming from even in a 3D space.  For example, I had people shooting at me from multiple directions and a jet/alien/something flew overhead at the same time and I clearly knew what direction each particular sound was coming from. 
   
  I also picked up (for the sake of comparison) the AD-700s and the ATH-A700's.  I liked the soundstage (though not the paltry bass) of the AD-700's and they were so big that I felt I was wearing two pie plates on my head.  I don't have a small head (7 3/4 hat size) but they were just TOO big for my tastes.  As for the ATH-A700's the bass was too pronounced (they're closed cans) and it negatively impacted the mids and highs IMHO.  I plan to use the HD598's for gaming and music and in my admittedly limited tests I feel that they'll function very, very well for both.  They're an outstanding multipurpose phone.  And the bass is certainly there as well.  I tested them out with a couple a rap songs (EPMD's classic "So Whatcha Sayin" and a few by Ice Cube) and found the bass to be exactly what I wanted: a good sense of bass without overwhelming the vocals and rest of the track.  I also tested them with some vocal songs, instrumentals, and some jazz and each was a pleasure to listen to as well.  
   
  As for the MixAmp 5.8, it works just as well as advertised.  It does a good job driving the HD598's (only have to have it around 30-40% for good gaming immersion and it gets better the more you crank it up.  I compared it to the TB EarForce DSS and even though the DSS is cheaper I decided to go with the MixAmp.  For me it's more about convenience and safety than anything else.  With the TB the volume control is on the module, so it only extends as far as your optical cable (for me that's 6 ft) and if that's farther than your couch (about 10 ft) you're screwed.  Plus I have a 9 month old who is currently fascinated with pulling on all manner of cords which she shouldn't (lol).  So to have the wireless feature and no cords running across the floor was worth the extra $$$ for me.  Plus the only sound difference between the two (wired vs non-wired) was the pronounced hiss in the TB regardless of volume level.  That said, it's not something that would be a deal breaker for me if I had a more convenient way to use it without buying new cables or rearranging my basement.  If you're interested in headset gaming you should at least try out the EarForce because it's just too cheap ($60 on Amazon) not to see if it's good enough for you.


----------



## leng jai

DICE does it again. BF3 sounds incredible, just like all their other games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But it plays like crap. DICE, I am disappoint. 

Not to toot my own horn, but I am VERY good in FPS games. BF3 controls like CRAP, looks like crap on consoles (which is odd as I thought Bad Company 2 looked fantastic), and just isn't any fun for me. I dunno... I'm somewhat tired of CoD, but I guess MW3 is gonna have to do. Here's hoping RAGE surprises me.

BF3 is still in Beta, but it's too close to release date to think the final product is gonna be very different. It was lackluster for me, just like Medal of Honor was.


----------



## Jae304

The full release of BF3 will look noticeably better than what the beta is showing, that's guaranteed. No idea what to tell you about the controls, I thought they were fine but I'm a Battlefield player not a CoD guy so the game feels very familiar to me.  
   
  Anyway, soundwise it's pretty damn nice.  Can't wait for the full release


----------



## Deadmice

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> The full release of BF3 will look noticeably better than what the beta is showing, that's guaranteed. No idea what to tell you about the controls, I thought they were fine but I'm a Battlefield player not a CoD guy so the game feels very familiar to me.
> 
> Anyway, soundwise it's pretty damn nice.  Can't wait for the full release


 
  really? on mine the sound was horrible, super super super quiet and messed up, but then again the game itself was really buggy for me -sigh- I'll prolly just end up waiting for the full game before playing it again, don't wanna ruin my impressions of it.
  Anyways, I'm prolly gonna get a sound card soon so i don't have to try and use dts headphone off my stock sound.


----------



## Armaegis

I think this should be required reading for anyone interested in how we "hear" soundstage and directionality...
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization


----------



## thrillhaus

While this post has been extremely useful for myself and others, I think the OP needs to be more neutral about recommending Dolby Headphone.

As much as I resent Creative for pushing 3d sound back a decade with their underhanded tactics, I have to admit after first using Dolby Headphone extensively, then trying CMSS-3D out of curiousity, there's no contest that CMSS-3D is superior at positional accuracy in all degrees of freedom. Dolby Headphone merely downmixes 5.1/7.1 channel audio into HRTF applied 2 channel stereo, and is inherently limited in angular resolution. CMSS-3D on the other hand uses OpenAL to actually extract the position of the sound from the game, so when you move the sound source around you, you hear it move smoothly around you. Dolby Headphone sounds more like the sound moves between the surround speakers. 

However, the disadvantage of CMSS-3D is that it significantly alters the frequency of the sound, so it doesn't sound as good, and is downright atrocious for music. Also, if your game does not support, or is not configured properly to use OpenAL or ALchemy, CMSS-3D will do the same thing as Dolby Headphone which is downmix a 5.1/7.1 output.

When it comes to music, movies, or a cinematic gaming experience, Dolby Headphone has a much more faithful sound signature, and marvelously wide soundstage. But when it comes to competitive gaming, and accurate positioning of sounds, CMSS-3D if _properly configured_, is miles ahead.

Oh, and the good news for those of us who appreciate an OpenAL HRTF solution but hate Creative is that there are software implementations of the same technology available, and in development.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Do keep in mind that Mad Lust Envy is a console gamer, which makes PC sound cards irrelevant for his usage.
   
  I can't compare Dolby Headphone for gaming purposes, but CMSS-3D Headphone is a must for me, and in fact, it's the one thing that made me not want to bother with surround speakers and instead invest in better stereo headphones for gaming. I can even hear when sounds are coming from above and below, instead of just on the horizontal plane like all those XAudio2 and FMOD-using games that downgrade everything to 7.1 instead of a 3D sound space. (I don't use it with music, though. Everything sounds too muffled and veiled then.)


----------



## leng jai

CMSS-3D has one fatal flaw - it makes the actual quality of the sound terrible. Sure, the positioning is pretty good but in terms of pure sound quality its horrendous.


----------



## applepancakes

Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> [...]CMSS-3D on the other hand uses OpenAL to actually extract the position of the sound from the game, [...]


 
  does it get it from the game or does it do processing after, like dolby headphones? apparently, some prefer setting cmss to 2/2.1 instead of headphones. granted, results seems to be largely based on their settings (having to set windows to 5.1 if the game doesn't support openal etc) which might be attributed to some varying opinions (that and the headphones they are using)
   
  what software openal hrtf are you thinking of? something similar to srs sandbox/virtual audio cable but with added capabilities? it'd be nice if there were options to change the soundstage in game as each game/headphone varies. (some sort of audio 3d calibration. a simple pure tone moving around in a circle around your head that you hear at the same db and can adjust accordingly. also should be able to adjust the path of the tone as the headphone might not present it as a perfect circle. those calibrations, either in game or driver lvl, would adjust the normalize the ingame sounds. just some thoughts )


----------



## thrillhaus

namelesspfg said:


> Do keep in mind that Mad Lust Envy is a console gamer, which makes PC sound cards irrelevant for his usage.
> 
> I can't compare Dolby Headphone for gaming purposes, but CMSS-3D Headphone is a must for me, and in fact, it's the one thing that made me not want to bother with surround speakers and instead invest in better stereo headphones for gaming. I can even hear when sounds are coming from above and below, instead of just on the horizontal plane like all those XAudio2 and FMOD-using games that downgrade everything to 7.1 instead of a 3D sound space. (I don't use it with music, though. Everything sounds too muffled and veiled then.)




Yeah after switching to CMSS-3D, it bothers me now when a game uses its own sound engine that force 7.1 downmixing. It's just not the same.



leng jai said:


> CMSS-3D has one fatal flaw - it makes the actual quality of the sound terrible. Sure, the positioning is pretty good but in terms of pure sound quality its horrendous.




Yes, but we're talking about games here, not music. The audio files in games are compressed to begin with, and I don't place the same hifi requirements on explosions and gunfire that I do with music. I simply EQ a bit to compensate for the CMSS's altered sound signature, and for a game, it's good enough. This isn't a fatal flaw. A fatal flaw would be if CMSS-3D turned off your sound.



applepancakes said:


> does it get it from the game or does it do processing after, like dolby headphones? apparently, some prefer setting cmss to 2/2.1 instead of headphones. granted, results seems to be largely based on their settings (having to set windows to 5.1 if the game doesn't support openal etc) which might be attributed to some varying opinions (that and the headphones they are using)
> 
> what software openal hrtf are you thinking of? something similar to srs sandbox/virtual audio cable but with added capabilities? it'd be nice if there were options to change the soundstage in game as each game/headphone varies. (some sort of audio 3d calibration. a simple pure tone moving around in a circle around your head that you hear at the same db and can adjust accordingly. also should be able to adjust the path of the tone as the headphone might not present it as a perfect circle. those calibrations, either in game or driver lvl, would adjust the normalize the ingame sounds. just some thoughts )




It gets the position of where the sound is, and does processing to the sound after based on the geometry relative to your player's location. For headphones, CMSS-3D has to be set on headphone mode or it won't apply the calculations correctly. When it does the calculation for a 2.0 speaker system, it's taking into consideration the natural crossfeed that will occur with speakers, that is absent in headphones. The reason people prefer setting it to 2.0 mode is because it doesn't alter the SQ as much as headphone mode.

Some of the software HRTF include Rapture3D which is integrated into Dirt 2, and myEARS.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> Yes, but we're talking about games here, not music. The audio files in games are compressed to begin with, and I don't place the same hifi requirements on explosions and gunfire that I do with music. I simply EQ a bit to compensate for the CMSS's altered sound signature, and for a game, it's good enough. This isn't a fatal flaw. A fatal flaw would be if CMSS-3D turned off your sound.


 

 Could I get the details on these EQ settings? (It might also help to know what headphones you're using, in case their sound signature turns out to be drastically different from my Stax Lambdas and AD700s.)
   

   Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> It gets the position of where the sound is, and does processing to the sound after based on the geometry relative to your player's location. For headphones, CMSS-3D has to be set on headphone mode or it won't apply the calculations correctly. When it does the calculation for a 2.0 speaker system, it's taking into consideration the natural crossfeed that will occur with speakers, that is absent in headphones. The reason people prefer setting it to 2.0 mode is because it doesn't alter the SQ as much as headphone mode.





   

  Pretty much. It helps to know the difference between how the APIs describe sound. Here's a crude example:
   
  XAudio2, FMOD et al.:
  "There's a sound playing faintly through your front right speaker, and another sound playing loudly through your rear left speaker." (They describe sound in terms of what speakers in a conventional home theater speaker configuration happens to be closest to the sound's location.)
   
  DirectSound3D and OpenAL:
  "There's a sound 45 degrees to your right 20 feet away, behind these walls, and also 30 degrees elevated up. There's another sound 135 degrees to your left, 10 feet away, unobstructed, at your current height." (They describe sound with 3D coordinates and leave the sound device driver to decide where and how to play back those sounds, as it should be.)
   
  If it has that much spatial information to work with, CMSS-3D Headphone will not waste time with emulating a home theater speaker system and instead attempt to present the sounds as if you were right there in the virtual environment, being exposed to the sounds in those exact positions.
   
  More details can be found here: "So, what's Creative doing about OpenAL and the rise of software audio?"
   
  While the SQ hit that CMSS-3D Headphone imposes isn't exactly desirable, getting backstabbed in a game because you didn't hear that someone was BEHIND you is even worse, and it doesn't murder sound quality to the point where I can't tell apart gunshots, reloading sounds, footsteps, explosions, etc. Remember, you're playing a game; you don't have time to be analyzing the smallest details in every sound! Though to be frank, I don't know if the SQ hit is necessary per se, especially given the hype that the Smyth SVS Realiser gets in terms of replicating home theater speaker systems several times more expensive; perhaps it's an artifact of having to use a generic HRTF, or Creative hasn't refined their HRTF tech enough (tech that's likely derived from Aureal and Sensaura's approaches, I might add).


----------



## lennyr

leng jai said:


> CMSS-3D has one fatal flaw - it makes the actual quality of the sound terrible. Sure, the positioning is pretty good but in terms of pure sound quality its horrendous.




There is a second fatal flaw. It comes in Creative products, which will have buggy drivers and virus-like crapware that comes with them.


----------



## leng jai

It would be a fatal flaw for a lot of people considering this is a thread made on an enthusiast headphone forum. You're also understating how much worse it makes the audio in games. Yes game audio is compressed but they still sound fine. 
  
  Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> Yes, but we're talking about games here, not music. The audio files in games are compressed to begin with, and I don't place the same hifi requirements on explosions and gunfire that I do with music. I simply EQ a bit to compensate for the CMSS's altered sound signature, and for a game, it's good enough. This isn't a fatal flaw. A fatal flaw would be if CMSS-3D turned off your sound.


----------



## MohawkUS

I've found Dolby Headphones to reduce the sound quality as well as making it a little echoey. At least the way the ASUS sound cards do it. I think I might actually prefer gaming with it off, for non-competitive gaming at least.


----------



## TMRaven

Not me, I can't live without dolby headphone on games and movies.  On music it spreads the soundstage around you way too much, and you lose some detail.


----------



## Arnotts

On the PC, BF3 is actually really damn good. I'm EXTREMELY picky when it comes to games - I despise CoD since MW2; they've all had huge, glaring issues that cater to terrible players that need assistance from the game (as well as not having proper dedicated servers). CoD2 and CoD4 were excellent games, though.

The graphics in the beta are not what they will be on full release, a lot of settings are restricted. No high/ultra AFAIK - they don't change anything. Sound wise, the game is good... but it uses its own sound engine. This is a step back from games that use D3D and OpenAL. Luckily Windows 8 is moving back to hardware audio. Positional audio in BF3 isn't going to come into play THAT much - you're only going to be hearing gunshots of enemies close to you, and footsteps can only be picked up if there are no other sounds

The game itself is excellent though, aside from the bugs which is to be expected in the beta. The choice to use Operation Metro as the beta map was a pretty terrible decision though. To anyone that hasn't played Caspian Border 64 player conquest yet, you're in for a BIG treat - it was available on PC if you got access to the password.

Guns all have their own characteristics that make them feel unique. Bullet damage may be too high imo, as people drop very quickly even from about 100m away. Either bullet damage is too high, accuracy is too good, or hit detection is a LOT better than it has been in previous titles (which is pretty likely, most previous BF games have had terrible hit detection).

Also, on the subject of CMSS-3D compared to DH. I recently picked up a Creative Titanium HD to compare with my Xonar Essence STX. The Xonar uses DH, the Titanium uses CMSS-3D. Without a doubt, CMSS-3D, when properly configured, is better than DH for positional audio in games. I haven't compared them very extensively with newer titles, but on CSS, CMSS-3D is just amazing. Much better than DH. CSS does use D3D/OpenAL though (one of those two), AFAIK, so its sound would probably be a lot better than most newer games.


----------



## olor1n

mad lust envy said:


> But it plays like crap. DICE, I am disappoint.
> 
> Not to toot my own horn, but I am VERY good in FPS games. BF3 controls like CRAP, looks like crap on consoles (which is odd as I thought Bad Company 2 looked fantastic), and just isn't any fun for me. I dunno... I'm somewhat tired of CoD, but I guess MW3 is gonna have to do. Here's hoping RAGE surprises me.
> 
> *BF3 is still in Beta, but it's too close to release date to think the final product is gonna be very different.* It was lackluster for me, just like Medal of Honor was.




Yeah I'm not sure how old the Beta code is, but it doesn't really instill much confidence the finished result will be significantly more polished. Maybe my expectations were too high. I've been out of gaming for a while now (probably a few rungs below casual gamer lol), but I expected better considering where the consoles are at in their life cycles.

Graphically, it's a mess. I'm not talking about the glitches, as those are things that may be addressed, but the look of it. What, is with the insanely high contrast? It goes from bleached to all black, without anything in between. There are no soft shadows and just looks really abrasive as a result.

Also, what's with the hit detection? I'm no FPS noob, but something's not right here. The gameplay kinda reminds me of what Killzone 2 was like online initially. That game only held my attention for a few days.

No doubt the LCD-2 is underpowered from just the Astro Mixamp, but soundwise, I think the game is ok. I thought shots and explosions had more weight in the BFBC games though. Perhaps I'm remembering wrong.


----------



## SteelRain

I am an FPS console veteran, and was disappointed with pretty much everything in the bf3 beta for Xbox 360 bar the sound. I honestly can't see any improvement from the frostbite to frostbite 2 engine, bad company 2 beats it in nearly every way. We can only hope for a significant improvement come the game release. I also hate how on console it's all about rush, and Dice seem to have lost the ability to make decent conquest maps. Battlefield Modern Combat 2 definitely had the best maps of any console battlefield game. On the up side there will be Skyrim .
   
  By the way Mad Lust Envy, I'm not sure if anyone has asked you this, but do you think you could do a review at some point on the Superlux 668b? It has been called a giant killer by some, I currently own these cans and they destroy my x41's in every way and would like to see how they stack up against others like the dt990, 598, ath ad700 etc.
   
  Regards,
   
  SteelRain


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Could I get the details on these EQ settings? (It might also help to know what headphones you're using, in case their sound signature turns out to be drastically different from my Stax Lambdas and AD700s.)


 
   

 I switch between HD555s and D2000s. The HD555s would probably be most similar to your AD700s. Back when I was using the HD555s exclusively, I would just boost the bass frequencies (the one step bass boost works too) to make up for the altered sound signature of CMSS-3D. I wasn't trying to EQ in a precise way so that there was no difference between CMSS-3D on and off since I don't think that's possible. I was just aiming to restore some of the bass impact that is lost for non-competitive gaming. However, since acquiring the D2000s, I've found this step unnecessary as I get adequate rumble for cinematic type experiences (although DH is better in this regard). If you're using the AD700s for competitive gaming, you might be better off leaving things as it is, but if the lack of bass is a problem you can just try dialing it in, starting from the very bottom of the spectrum.

  
  Quote: 





leng jai said:


> It would be a fatal flaw for a lot of people considering this is a thread made on an enthusiast headphone forum. You're also understating how much worse it makes the audio in games. Yes game audio is compressed but they still sound fine.


 

 Honestly, if the game I'm playing is worth playing, I'll be too focused on what's going on to nitpick on details. The immersion factor of having an accurate 360 degree HRTF soundfield outweighs the change in sound signature.


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote:  





> I don't know if the SQ hit is necessary per se, especially given the hype that the Smyth SVS Realiser gets in terms of replicating home theater speaker systems several times more expensive; perhaps it's an artifact of having to use a generic HRTF, or Creative hasn't refined their HRTF tech enough (tech that's likely derived from Aureal and Sensaura's approaches, I might add).


 

 I have to add that I think Creative is a truly crappy and underhanded company who deserve to go out of business like how they pushed Aureal out of business with their silly expensive lawsuit that they lost anyway. If those other companies had been around to unseat Creative from its monopoly, the state of 3d sound wouldn't be the mess it currently is. Unfortunately, CMSS-3D (which is just Aureal's tech that Creative bought after bankrupting the competition) is the best we have, however sloppily implemented. The software solutions do look promising but myEARS requires a subscription (no thank you) and Rapture3D is comparable in cost to a sound card without having any of the hardware benefits. Also, the fate of OpenAL, which Rapture3D relies upon, isn't even clear at this moment, as it seems many games are opting for their own software solutions.


----------



## applepancakes

on 668b:
  someone had already gave their insights into it earlier in the thread: it had excess treble and bass. i concur. i dont remember being overly impressed for positional sounds either.


----------



## leng jai

I stick to using cans with a good soundstage in stereo mode - best of both worlds to me. DH/CMSS aren't necessary.
  
  Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> I switch between HD555s and D2000s. The HD555s would probably be most similar to your AD700s. Back when I was using the HD555s exclusively, I would just boost the bass frequencies (the one step bass boost works too) to make up for the altered sound signature of CMSS-3D. I wasn't trying to EQ in a precise way so that there was no difference between CMSS-3D on and off since I don't think that's possible. I was just aiming to restore some of the bass impact that is lost for non-competitive gaming. However, since acquiring the D2000s, I've found this step unnecessary as I get adequate rumble for cinematic type experiences (although DH is better in this regard). If you're using the AD700s for competitive gaming, you might be better off leaving things as it is, but if the lack of bass is a problem you can just try dialing it in, starting from the very bottom of the spectrum.
> 
> *Honestly, if the game I'm playing is worth playing, I'll be too focused on what's going on to nitpick on details. The immersion factor of having an accurate 360 degree HRTF soundfield outweighs the change in sound signature.*


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





leng jai said:


> I stick to using cans with a good soundstage in stereo mode - best of both worlds to me. DH/CMSS aren't necessary.


 


  Oh look- it's that comment again.
   
  It's a cool story and all bro, but unfortunately this is a thread for gaming WITH surround sound processing.


----------



## IMAWolf

Tried any razor stuff? 




Cheers,
IMAWolf


----------



## leng jai

I wasn't aware of that actually bro, seems like I thought it was a thread for gaming with headphones...
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Oh look- it's that comment again.
> 
> It's a cool story and all bro, but unfortunately this is a thread for gaming WITH surround sound processing.


----------



## Rebel975

I mean, the discussion may not really be all that related to the original post anymore (150 pages in and all), but he specifically states "This is for Dolby Headphone, NOT stereo." It's also in the title of the thread. It's like going into a LCD-2 thread and saying that LCD-2's are unnecessary.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> I switch between HD555s and D2000s. The HD555s would probably be most similar to your AD700s. Back when I was using the HD555s exclusively, I would just boost the bass frequencies (the one step bass boost works too) to make up for the altered sound signature of CMSS-3D. I wasn't trying to EQ in a precise way so that there was no difference between CMSS-3D on and off since I don't think that's possible. I was just aiming to restore some of the bass impact that is lost for non-competitive gaming. However, since acquiring the D2000s, I've found this step unnecessary as I get adequate rumble for cinematic type experiences (although DH is better in this regard). If you're using the AD700s for competitive gaming, you might be better off leaving things as it is, but if the lack of bass is a problem you can just try dialing it in, starting from the very bottom of the spectrum.
> 
> Honestly, if the game I'm playing is worth playing, I'll be too focused on what's going on to nitpick on details. The immersion factor of having an accurate 360 degree HRTF soundfield outweighs the change in sound signature.


 

 That latter paragraph is the exact reason I cannot do without CMSS-3D Headphone in games. Immersion and practically an aural wallhack.
   
  So your EQ is mostly bringing up the bass for more impact? Sounds easy enough. I thought you were aiming more for transparency in frequency response while retaining the imaging advantages. As things stand, I'm fine with the Lambda's bass output, though some people aren't satisfied with the relative lack of bass impact of electrostatics in general. However, I can't do without the clarity and presentation that these bring, no matter what they're playing...it's quite immersive.
   
  As for the AD700s...I might just be selling those, since they're not getting nearly as much use for obvious reasons.
   
  Quote: 





thrillhaus said:


> I have to add that I think Creative is a truly crappy and underhanded company who deserve to go out of business like how they pushed Aureal out of business with their silly expensive lawsuit that they lost anyway. If those other companies had been around to unseat Creative from its monopoly, the state of 3d sound wouldn't be the mess it currently is. Unfortunately, CMSS-3D (which is just Aureal's tech that Creative bought after bankrupting the competition) is the best we have, however sloppily implemented. The software solutions do look promising but myEARS requires a subscription (no thank you) and Rapture3D is comparable in cost to a sound card without having any of the hardware benefits. Also, the fate of OpenAL, which Rapture3D relies upon, isn't even clear at this moment, as it seems many games are opting for their own software solutions.


 

 I'm also pretty pissed at how Creative managed to just eat up the competition so they could stay complacent, and look where we are now...inferior software-processed sound that presumes that everyone has 7.1 speakers and doesn't care about preserving an actual 3D sound field, simply because the industry didn't want to deal with Creative. Ugh.
   
  MyEars requiring a subscription is an absolute no-go, that's for sure. Rapture3D Advanced edition costs far, far too much (not even internal sound card money, it's external audiophile DAC money), yet it's the only one that has the features I would expect. The fact that the price is in GBP makes it much worse given how stacked it is against the USD.


----------



## Armaegis

You guys here ever look at the phase response curves of your headphones and wonder how that affects your positional accuracy?


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> So your EQ is mostly bringing up the bass for more impact? Sounds easy enough. I thought you were aiming more for transparency in frequency response while retaining the imaging advantages. As things stand, I'm fine with the Lambda's bass output, though some people aren't satisfied with the relative lack of bass impact of electrostatics in general. However, I can't do without the clarity and presentation that these bring, no matter what they're playing...it's quite immersive.


 

 Yeah transparency isn't really a big deal for me in games. I figure I don't know what a plasma cannon is supposed to sound like in real life, so why should I care if there's too much treble? Most sound effects are not meant to be super realistic anyway.


----------



## Rebel975

My new setup. Audio Technica PRO 8Hex microphone, Art Tube MP preamp, and adapters, being fed into the mixamp or my computer. Awesome.


----------



## rayuma

Anyone thinking about getting the Tritton Warhead?


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote: 





rayuma said:


> Anyone thinking about getting the Tritton Warhead?


 


  I'd stay way from Tritton if I were you. I once found a used pair on my local Kijiji at an extremely low price, so I thought I'd try them out since they were the ones that had the multiple speakers in each earpiece. The photos on the internet are very misleading about the build quality. They're very cheap feeling and sounding. I ended up reselling them for no loss since I got them for extremely cheap, but at retail price they're definitely a huge ripoff.


----------



## Rebel975

My first headset was a Tritton AX PRO. The microphone broke within a week. I returned it and ... here I am a couple years later with a HE-500 headset. haha


----------



## rayuma

I've heard decent things about the AX 720, but the main reason I'm considering the Warhead is the wireless functionality.


----------



## Eric_C

^ If it's about wireless headphones, what about using the MixAmp 5.8? Or buying wireless headsets from other companies? Turtle Beach and Razer both have wireless headsets.


----------



## rayuma

Turtle Beach and Razer wireless headsets have been reported to have issues with interference. I am currently using the Mixamp 5.8, but it would be nice not to have that cable tethered to the controller as well. The Warhead gets rid of that cable between the Xbox controller and the headset.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

hi there. new to the forum. this is my first post. i am from greece (yeah i know...)
   
  well i registered here because of this thread
  i aqm a console gamer my self. i have xbox360. but i am also a drummer. so i need to compine both ends.
  i am thinking of buying a mixamp(dont know which one) and headphones that will have great positional understanding (i am so angry at people listening to me all the time) but also i need good sounding phones that do not alter the sound. i want to be able to hear what i am supposed to hear. nothing more nothing less. this is vital for me so that when i play drums i listen to what i am supposed to be listening
   
  i have to mention here that i used to own sennheiser xtatic digital headphones
  well the mic broke twice, actually i had many many problems with chatting. the positional accuracy was good i think but i had no other experience so...
   
  for a mixamp my ptions are the astro one (i am thinking about the wireless one) or the sennheiser x-tatic control unit. can someone tell me if one is better than the other?
  or if i should get something else?
  the sennheiser one is cheaper and i can buy it directly in greece which is good, but if astro is much better then i will get it instead
   
  about headphones. i really want to be able to chat. so is there a headphone that is good and has also a microphone? otherwise is there a solution for a microphone i can usewith my xbox?also will i be able to lower or higher the voice chat with both mixamps? ithink i cant with sennheiser control unit cause if i remeber well, the control was on the headphones
   
  also and this is very important, i cant pay more than 200 dollars for the headphones. (250 at most if there is something spectacular but ...)
  so if there is some cheap great ones id love to hear from them. cause i was checking some of the headphones mentioned in the first post, and they were in the price range of 900 dollars!!!
   
  thank you so much
  ps. i am in page 10, this is one hell of a big thread


----------



## obazavil

just get a mixamp 5.8 and a pc360 and be happy


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

thank you for the quick response my frnd
  well ok i will get these eadphones and mixamp 99%
   
  some questions
  will the mic of the headphones work in xbox?
  how can this happen? i just dont understand it? is there another cable that hooksin the xbox controller?
  also in general, is there a solution to have a mic attached to headphones with no microphone on them?
   
  my last question, since it is easier to get the sharkoon mixamp instead of the astro one, will i be missing many things? most probably will get the astro one, but i am just asking.thanx


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





burnin ambition said:


> thank you for the quick response my frnd
> well ok i will get these eadphones and mixamp 99%
> 
> some questions
> ...


 
   

 MixAmp 5.8 (and pro i think) has included the needed cables for chat on xbox:
   
  Quote: 





> **Headset sold separately. Check out our Wireless Systems for the complete package. The MixAmp 5.8™ only accepts a digital TOSlink optical input for game/home theater audio. Game Chat is handled by the included Xbox Live Chat Cable for Xbox 360 or the _OPTIONAL_ PS3/PC Chat Cable for PS3 and PC.**


 
   
  You connect xbox to mixamp using toslink, and mixamp to control using the provided cable.
   
  mixamp allows you to well.. mix voice/channel volumes.
   
  Also pc360 has a volume control if I remember correctly (plz check)
   
  No idea what sharkoon mixamp is... if you can afford it, go for mixamp, if you lack cash, ax720 is good enough


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

here is the sharkoon sound control unit
  http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/x-tatic-sound-control-unit
  what bothers me also is that is says that it has

 2 analogue audio outputs for the X-Tatic headset
 3 analogue 3.5 mm audio outputs (front, rear, center / subwoofer)
   
  so there is no "common line in in it to connect the headphones?
   
  about mixamp, f in order to have chat i need to connect the mixamp with the controllertyhen the mixamp will need to be close to me, right? so that means that there is no point in buying the wireless mixamp corrct?
  also if i buy the 360 headphone will the microphone of it work? otherwise if i buy sometthing like this
  http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
  then this will need to be connected to mixamp instead of the controller, and then connect mixamp with controller?
  so if i am guessing it well, the voice from the mic has to go first to mixamp and then mixamp sends it to controller? am i right?
   
  sorry if i confused you and thank you very much
   
  ps people are saying that
  The Sennheiser PC360 is basically a HD595 with a mic.

 so in order to save money, if i buy hd555, do the mod to make it like the 595 and buy an external mic will it also wrok greatly for me? it will save me much money. thank you


----------



## Eric_C

obazavil is right, the PC360 + MixAmp is probably the best solution. 
_**Disclaimer: I am making this recommendation based on reliable opinions shared here, and based on features listed. Have no firsthand experience with that gear.**_
   
  The MixAmp acts as a hub. It handles the game audio, and the chat audio.
   
  Game audio originates from the 360 itself, so you connect the 360 straight into a MixAmp. The game audio is usually processed by the 360, but you can connect it to the MixAmp with an optical cable to let the MixAmp handle that processing--this is the only way a MixAmp can simulate surround sound.
  Game audio: Xbox 360 console > Optical cable > MixAmp
   
  Chat audio is sent wirelessly from the 360 to the controller, and then output from the bottom of the controller--that's where a chat-only headset connects. Again, connect the controller to the MixAmp, which will allow the MixAmp to send and receive chat audio for you.
  Chat audio: 360 controller > Cable (provided by Astro, I think) > MixAmp
   

  Finally, plug the Sennheiser into the MixAmp. The Sennheiser has 2 jacks (http://www.back2gaming.com/reviews/sennheiser-pc360-g4me-headset-review/), and the MixAmp has 2 ports for these. One's for the mic, the other's for the headphones.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> obazavil is right, the PC360 + MixAmp is probably the best solution.
> _**Disclaimer: I am making this recommendation based on reliable opinions shared here, and based on features listed. Have no firsthand experience with that gear.**_


 
   
  Well...I *do* have mixamp, but i *don't* have PC360. As stated, MLE recommends it and I trust him in this matter, since he had the DT990 and K702 that I do have, and is a PAIN to need to connect an external amp (Fiio E9) to get the most of my cans.
   
  So, yeah... I posted the pc360 based on comments here.
   
  You can find PC360 at ebay with razordogdeals at $200.
   
  Just buy tha tand forget the dealextreme mic. After a month or 2 you will be tired of having to plug the mic all the time...


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

thanx for the answers
  some more questions
  the 2 jacks that pc360 has, are one left and one right, or 1 for phones and one for mic?
  thats what got me confused. if it is the first, then i need some converter cable that makes the 2 cables in one? and no cable for mic? is that possible?how? (yes i am stupid)if it is the second scenario i understand. so if you say pc360 works fine ill get it instead.some
  thing else. is there a possibility for me to remove batteries from astrmixamp and have the mixamp permanently hooked in either my pc or in the wall socker with a usb charger, so that it permanently has power and i dont have to recharge it every 10 hours?
   
  and last question. the headphones and the charger usb cable do i have to connect them to the rf receiver of mixamp, or to the actual mixamp that connects to the xbox
  thank you very much.
  it seems that i will spend for both mixamp headphones more than 300 euros in greece to get them...but ok,i will have to do it...
  thank you


----------



## Eric_C

^ I can answer the question about the cables:
  One's for mic, one's for headphones.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

in this thread
  http://www.xim3.com/community/index.php?topic=7924.0
  i can see all the ports of astro mixamp. so since pc360 has 2 jacks one audio one mic, i hook up the audio to mixamp and also connect controller to mixamp.
  so where amsupposed to hook up the mick jack from the headset? thats what nfuses me. do i need some sort of cable that makes the 2 jacks o headphones to one jack and hook it in audio jack of mixamp? or what? and if this is the case, any 2to 1 conversion cable will do? or it has to be specific?
  i am simply asking this as it is too much money i spend. i have to be sure. thank you


----------



## Eric_C

Ok, for the umpteenth time on this forum (and possibly this thread): if you have questions about the MixAmp, have you tried looking at Astro's website? There's manuals and diagrams, and a FAQ section there.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

well i checked themanual, should be the firstthing i had done. tha faqs and the site if astroi i had already seen them. so my pc360 questions are solved now. only thing that puzzles me is this. if i get the wireless mixamp, will i be able to charge the mixamp via usb without having to buy the rechargable battery pack. if i have to buy the pack, will battery life lower, if i charge the battery while playing?
  thats all and thank you and sorry for my many questions


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

just wanted to say that my finger is iching to press the paypal button and buy them. 322 euros total of sennheiser pc360 mixamp wireless and the battery pack..probably will confirm it at night though...
   
  i hope someone can confirm till night, if i need the battery pack, or i can charge the receiver without it, by simply connecting the rf with a usb port ..o
  nce again thank you all you are one hell of a community
   
  and soon i will enjoy again call of duty and my drums!!!!!!!
  take care


----------



## obazavil

I don't have the wireless mixamp, just the normal one.
   
  But I read that you MUST get the battery packs from astro, if you want them to charge via usb and not only using wall charger
   
  Many ppl bought batteries somewhere else, and then bought them from astro website por peace of mind
   
  if you dont need the wireless, well, don't get it, just the wired and save some cash.
   
  Let's hope someone with wireless mixamp can elaborate more


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

i like the wireless more, i need the extrabass and i like the more jacks it has. all i want to know is if i can save on the battery pack. if the rf receiver can be charged through a usb cable that ends in the power plug then i dont the battery, i have a plug next to where i will be sitting so it is good for me this way. i will have it plugged all the time...


----------



## iHasCake

has anyone ever suggested that mad lust put approximate prices on the headphones he's reviewed and suggested?  i know it would help me a bit


----------



## applepancakes

for casual playing, movies etc -- i use v.i vst before dh vst and set the width to the max. makes it sound more encompassing to me.


----------



## Ruahrc

Pardon if I haven't covered all 150 pages of this thread, but has anyone had thoughts on the Turtle Beach XP500?  They're identical to the Turtle Beach PX5s, except the headphones are a different color and it includes a bluetooth dongle for your 360 controller, so the headphones are totally wireless.
   
  I'm looking for a headset that I can use with my 360 and PC (and mac mini as well, for listening to general audio).
   
  There are a few unique circumstances to my setup though:
   
  1) I also have a 5.1 surround system set up that my mac mini and 360 hook into, using a receiver/decoder of sorts (it's the Klipsch DD5.1)
   
  2) PC is nearby but in a separate room (meaning I could maybe run a toslink between the rooms if I needed to, but looking to avoid this if possible).
   
  3) Both the mac mini and PC have bluetooth capability (maybe possibility to use the XP500 headphones as a pure bluetooth audio device on the computers?)
   
  I understand that the mixamp 5.8 seems to be very highly regarded here, as it functions well (no hiss) and allows matching of any headset.  What I don't like about it though are the extra wires needed.  Hafta keep a dongle near you at all times, hafta run the headset wire to the dongle (with probably a huge amount of excess cable looping around as the distance is so short), hafta run _another_ cable from the 360 controller to the dongle... what's the point of wireless if I'll end up with MORE wires running around my body?  With the XP500 there are no cables for gaming on the 360 (on the user side at least).
   
  My main concerns are versatility (compatibility with all my devices), audio quality, and comfort (and roughly but not strictly in that order).  I know it seems like the consensus here is the pc360s+mixamp 5.8, but the mixamp 5.8 + pc360's is going to run over $300, which is a bit of a stretch for my budget.  I'm not averse to paying for quality but I'm just not sure I will be satisfied with the "inelegance" of the mixamp solution with still so many wires hanging around, particularly given the extraordinary price I'd be paying.  I was also thinking, since the XP500s have bluetooth functionality, would it be possible for me to use the headphones on my PC purely as a bluetooth audio device?  That would negate any need for me to run cabling between rooms (to get to the base unit of the PX5/mixamp).
   
  I guess the root of the problem is that I think features wise the XP500 is a good fit for my needs, and more convenient (also a little cheaper) than the mixamp solution but I'm concerned about the audio quality.  I'm not expecting them to be on par or better than the PC360s, but I don't want to pay $250+ for a headset and have the audio quality turn out to be like a cheap $30 pair of headphones.  I'm considering giving some audio quality up in trade for the added convenience and elegance of the XP500 system vs. the mixamp, and realistically I don't really intend on doing a lot of music listening on these phones, nor do I do a lot of critical listening in general, but I am also not a stranger to good headphones and don't want to get a headphone that sounds bad, especially at the $250+ mark.  I don't play games competitively, and actually rarely (or never) play FPS games online, so I don't really demand much in the way of accurate positional audio.  I'm mainly looking for a versatile solution I can use with all my computers/consoles, mainly for night-time usage so I don't have to use speakers all the time, and do so in an easy and elegant manner.  I also want something better than my current PC setup which is to use a desktop mic along with some Koss KSC-35s that I plug into my desktop speakers.
   
  Ruahrc


----------



## Eric_C

The XP500 sound good for a fuss-free solution, but you may want to check Turtle Beach re: bluetooth audio from you PC and Mac. They might cover it in a FAQ on their site. 

Also, the Dolby receiver that you have--does it downmix 5.1 into simulated 5.1 for headphones? It's my understanding that not all receivers do this. If that's true of your receiver, it's probably better to just Bluetooth the XP500 straight from the 360. 

Edit: just wanted to add that I'm very surprised the XP500's claim of grabbing chat audio from the USB port on a 360. This is the first device I've ever heard of that does sth like that.


----------



## rayuma

I believe in order to use the XP500s on the PC you would need to run a cable from the PC to the base unit.
   
  Have you looked into the Tritton Warhead? It's another wireless headset for the Xbox 360, but it doesn't need to have the bluetooth dongle attached to the 360 controller as Tritton has partnered up with Microsoft.


----------



## Ruahrc

The receiver I have is not a true "receiver", but more of a dedicated decoder unit made by Klipsch for their 5.1 multimedia speakers.  It will receive digital SPDIF inputs and also analog too, and decode DD5.1 and DTS audio, as well as apply ProLogic to stereo signals.  There is no headphone out or dolby headphone processing.
   
  Speaking of which, does the XP500/PX5 actually have dolby headphone downmixing, or does it use some kind of proprietary downmixing scheme?  I see what appears to he a dolby headphone logo on the front but cannot see any definitive reference to DH decoding in the literature.
   
  Eric- where are you seeing the claim about grabbing chat audio via USB?  From what I understand it's just a 2.5mm to bluetooth adapter that sticks on your controller that does the chat audio, not anything via USB.  The Tritton is the one with no dongles whatsoever since they have teamed with MS to provide native chat functionality.
   
  I believe in order to get dolby headphone output from the XP500s, you're right I'd need to run an optical audio cable out from my PC to the XP500s.  But if I just wanted stereo sound plus microphone capability, could I not just pair the headphones directly to the PC using bluetooth?  It would not get "5.1 downmixing" but would do stereo right?  And it would operate independently of the base (similarly to how it pairs to cell phones or bluetooth-enabled MP3 players).  Incidentally I did take out my longest toslink optical cable and see how far it goes though, and it actually looks like it might reach far enough to hook the PC up to the XP500 directly via toslink (especially since I'd need to incorporate a toslink switch, extending the cable reach a little more).
   
  I looked at the Tritton Warhead, looks like it is not out yet.  I'm unsure as to the quality of the TB XP500's headphones, I'm even less confident about the Tritton Warhead, though this is just bias and I have no evidence to point me either way (why I was posting here, hoping someone has had direct experience with the PX5/XP500 headphones?)


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





rayuma said:


> I believe in order to use the XP500s on the PC you would need to run a cable from the PC to the base unit.
> 
> Have you looked into the Tritton Warhead? It's another wireless headset for the Xbox 360, but it doesn't need to have the bluetooth dongle attached to the 360 controller as Tritton has partnered up with Microsoft.


 

 But there's no wire between XP500 and controller either, just a puck for Bluetooth.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/07/turtle-beachs-xp500-headset-brings-totally-wireless-7-1-to-the/
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40491/mad-catz-tritton-warhead-headphones


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ruahrc said:


> Eric- where are you seeing the claim about grabbing chat audio via USB?  From what I understand it's just a 2.5mm to bluetooth adapter that sticks on your controller that does the chat audio, not anything via USB.  The Tritton is the one with no dongles whatsoever since they have teamed with MS to provide native chat functionality.


 
   
  Sorry, I must have misread that post. Was checking the forum while on the go earlier.


----------



## Ruahrc

I think what rayuma's saying though is that the warhead does voice communication wirelessly with no dongles at all- since they're partnered with MS.  Aside from the official MS wireless headset, this seems to be unique among gaming headsets.  One potential issue with this is that it's presumably using the same proprietary RF technology that the MS wireless headset uses, which doesn't have the reputation for being the most reliable connection (I know mine will disconnect temporarily once or twice per gaming session).
   
  P.S. OT rant but why don't these guys put multiple digital inputs on these things?  They're clearly gunning for the enthusiast gamer's market here, and the fairly well-off one at that.  Yet they don't acknowledge or design for the fact that most if not all their customers probably own more than one console, or have some other device (like a PC or blu-ray player) through which they'd like to use the headset?


----------



## Manu A

Hope you find a good set that fits your needs. I've owned/own the turtle beach px5, astro wireless mixamp, sennheiser pc360, 558 and 598 in that order. Currently rocking senn 598 with the astro mixamp and it's a perfect setup for me.
   
  The turtle beach px5 was the first one i bought. Pretty good sound, heavy set of cans and fun with extras as bluetooth and needing only 1 cable between controller and headset if you don't have the bluetooth dongle. Think there are mixed reviews on it on youtube, only saw that there was some cons in the beginning of the release but a update after might probably have fixed it. The reason I returned mine was because of the hissing noise, maybe I was picky but it was to load for my taste.
   
  Astro wireless mixamp works good for me. A must is the battery pack, this thing eats ****ty AAA batterys for breakfast and then some, I kid you not. I can still hear some hissing but not as load as the PX5, don't thinks so atleast because I didn't own them at the same time so not 100%. Eventhough it is wireless you gonna have a few cables running BUT I prefer having them running between me and the mobile RX unit then across the whole room as with the none wireless unit.
   
  PC360 is good (depends what you compare it with), very practical but in my opinion also expensive. Practicality doesn't play that big of a part among my preferenses so i did mind spending that much on these phones so I returned them.
   
  Sennheisers 558 were better sounding than the pc360 even for a audio novice as I the difference was noticable. The 558 worked good with a dealextreme.com mic for a few bucks. They went for 87% of the cost of the pc360, mic from dealextreme inc. in calculations, and as practicality wasn't a big issue for me a better bang for the buck than the pc360 in my opinion.
   
  I returned the 558 to buy the 40% more expensive 598. I know I would have always wondered how much better the sound would have been with the 598's otherwise. Was it a good upgrade?? I haven't regretted it once. Soundwise I can't say much as I haven't tested them back to back, the sound is better then the pc360, no doubt. I didn't own the 558 long enough to break them in either. My guess is that the sound in my ears wouldn't be a big difference BUT ohh boy do these phone sound good and are a killer gaming phones. Can't tell you how many times someones has tried to sneak up beahind me in gears of war 3 and I do a back roll, turn 180 degrees and BAAM!! Headshoot b***h!! Well something like that..
  The colour and style though, beware is very subjective to taste. This was one of the strongest reason I upgraded to 598's, you'll look like a BOSS wearing these. I totally dig the style but I know there are alot of people that think the look awful, probably same people wearing sweatpants and hoody to the club 
   
  Nuff rambling, hope you find a good set. This isn't a cheap way of going by trying to find a good set of headphones so hope you get it right with the first try. If I was gonna go with the best price to sound ratio I would have gone the astro 5.8 + senn 558 + dealextreme mic. What's the point of woppin suckas though if you're not gonns look good doing it.
   
  Big up to everybody that made this thread what it is today, thanks alot for the help, super useful and eventhough I'm all set I still wander in here a couple times a week, that says alot about this thread and the work you've done, MLE and all, Thanks!


----------



## Ruahrc

Thanks for your comments Manu.  I think I'm leaning towards giving the XP500s a try, but at least making sure to do so from a retailer with a good return policy.  They just seem too convenient usage-wise to not give a go.  I do have some concerns about hiss and audio quality but I have also heard varying opinions on the issue, people say there is no hiss, others say they can hear it, etc.  It is likely more a factor of people's tolerance level/hearing than anything.  Therefore I probably just have to try them for myself.  If I don't like them I guess I can always return them and look at other options (like the mixamp).  I also was able to confirm that it does have actual Dolby Headphone downmixing, but it seems that the only way to get it is to use some of their built-in presets, like bass booster.  If I get these phones I'll probably have to install the configuration software on my PC and create a neutral profile with DH enabled.
   
  Also I'm a little concerned about the 2.4GHz band transmission too.  I connect my 360 to my router via ethernet but the router sits right next to the 360 in my TV stand.  I think this might be the cause of some of the wireless issues I have with the standard MS voice communicator (although I don't have any problems using the controllers).  The mixamp definitely seems better in this regard.
   
  Another thing I found was that they make an adapter cable for the XP500/PX5 headphones that allows them to operate in wired mode for connection to a PC via 2x 1/8 stereo mini jacks.  I think it plugs into the 360 controller port on the headphones themselves.  If I can't work the wireless connection to my PC with it being in another room then that is another option as well, albeit with no Dolby Headphone downmixing.  That's an acceptable alternative to me since I won't be moving around much when using the PC plus I'm sitting right in front of it so wireless is not as critical.
   
  One aspect I am a little let down about is that *none* of these units seem to do DTS decoding.  That means if you watch Blu-rays with DTS-HD MA tracks, you get no surround sound.  Or do all blu-rays also have DD5.1 tracks as well?  I play blu-rays on my mac, but it's a little haxor because first I have to copy them to the HD (or I can use the streaming option) via MakeMKV and for the few BRs I have, I notice that if it has a DTS-MA track that's all there is, I don't see a way to get DD5.1 instead.  My klipsch decoder is too old (and no HDMI connections) to do DTS-MA lossless, but it does decode standard DTS so I still get surround sound when watching DTA-MA blu-rays via my speakers.


----------



## Das Mookid

Fantastic thread, but as always so many opinions. . .
   
  I am looking at getting a set of Beyerdynamics for gaming on 360/PS3, as well as some movies. They would be driven out of the (wired) Astro Mixamp.
   
  I already have a pair of Senn PC350 which I use when online for the chat and precision, so I am looking for something more cinematic in the Beyers as opposed to competitive. I am not particularly concerned with neutrality, I want theater like impact particularly in the bass but ideally not at too much expense at the rest of the spectrum and the soundstage. Comfort is also important, I don't mind closed provided the pads are nice. I'd be willing to go as high price as the DT880.
   
  So, DT770, 880, or 990? Pro or Premium, and what impedance (not interested in supplementing the Astro with any other amping)?
   
  <edit> So after scanning through the thread in further detail I think I can safely remove the 880 from contention since this one is the more balanced offering. From the sound of things, the 990 is the way to go (don't mind open), but given that I don't feel like investing in further amping I should avoid the 600 ohm variant. The prices on the 990 pro are almost half the price of premium right now, but it's only available in 250 ohm. I think I would prefer the coiled cable, and the sonic differences seem debatable, hopefully the clamp won't hurt my +sized noggin too much? I have usually found headphones too loose for what it's worth. . .
   
  Would the mix amp be able to drive the 250 ohm 990  ok (without any voice chat)? Or do I need to bite the bullet and pay the big difference for the 32 ohm premium?


----------



## RapidPulse

Well, I don't have exactly the same scenario, but I use the DT 990 Premium 250 ohm with wireless Astro Mixamp ... and they are driven just fine.  Can go much louder than I want to listen to and sound quality is great.
   
  I strongly suspect the 990 Pro 250 ohm won't be a problem either.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





burnin ambition said:


> i like the wireless more, i need the extrabass and i like the more jacks it has. all i want to know is if i can save on the battery pack. if the rf receiver can be charged through a usb cable that ends in the power plug then i dont the battery, i have a plug next to where i will be sitting so it is good for me this way. i will have it plugged all the time...


 

 Not sure if this was ever answered but the wireless mixamp 5.8 can definitely be powered by a USB cable alone, with no batteries in it at all.  I've only tried powering it using a ps3's USB socket but I imagine your adapter should work without issue.


----------



## Das Mookid

<edit double post>


----------



## Das Mookid

Quote: 





rapidpulse said:


> Well, I don't have exactly the same scenario, but I use the DT 990 Premium 250 ohm with wireless Astro Mixamp ... and they are driven just fine.  Can go much louder than I want to listen to and sound quality is great.
> 
> I strongly suspect the 990 Pro 250 ohm won't be a problem either.


 

  
  Thanks!


----------



## Ruahrc

Well I decided to give the Turtle Beach headphones a go.  I went to BestBuy and picked up the PX5s, since the XP500 was not yet available, and I get the benefit of easy/instant return at BB.
   
  The headphones themselves are fairly comfortable.  When I put them on my head, the earcups don't quite fully get around my ears, so there is a little contact between the edges of my ears and the inside rim of the pads.  However, over the past 2 days I wore them fairly extensively (probably 5+ continuous hours each day at least) and did experience any discomfort.  My ears got a little warm because they're a closed design, but it wasn't really an issue.  Comfort wise I think I could live with these headphones.  The only thing I could really see improving here are slightly bigger ear cups to remove any "ear contact" (but then they may be too big and not fit on my head well) and maybe a weight reduction.  They're not heavy, and I don't really notice.  The phones and the transmitter unit do feel a little cheap which is a slight letdown for a product that's this expensive.  I don't think it's going to break on me, but it definitely feels substantially cheaper than it costs.  Oh also the buttons on the headsets have a little "jiggle" to them, so if you shake your head you can hear the plastic buttons rattle, which is annoying.
   
  Sound wise, my initial impressions were a little disappointing.  The first thing I noticed when I turned them on was that I could hear some hiss.  It wasn't really loud but it was definitely present and noticeable.  To test the performance, I first hooked it up to my 360.  I booted the console and navigated some of the menus to make sure it was working.  Admittedly, the first time I did this, I thought that I had not connected it properly because I heard the sound but it felt like it was coming from my TV speakers and not the headphones (which in reality was impossible since my TV speakers are set to 0 volume).  There was this strange "transparency" to the sound, most likely from the DH processing.   The first game I tried was Bioshock 2.  Playing through Bioshock 1 and 2 on my surround sound speakers (and in the dark) was a positively transforming experience, I think BS/BS2 has about the _best_ sound I have ever heard in a game, both in the sounds themselves, and the surround sound immersing you in as you hear water splashing and trickling all around you.  Again I was pretty disappointed at the results with the PX5.  I got what seemed to be pretty severe distortion while playing the game.  And I mean pretty severe.  Action scenes were just a jumbled mess every time there was some kind of explosion or a gun firing.  I really don't remember it sounding that bad on my speakers, so I was a little let down.  I played some single player and also did a few rounds in multiplayer which is pretty rare for me.  Although for now I didn't bother hooking up the mic and testing that, just the sound from the headphones.
   
  Next I popped in Forza 4, but only tried that briefly as there isn't as much surround/directionality in the game.  The third game I tried was Red Dead Redemption, another game which had pretty immersive and well-done sound in my opinion.  My experience with RDR was somehow quite a bit better than Bioshock 2, I didn't really notice any distortion in the sound.
   
  After my experience with the games, I was a little let down.  I so wanted these headphones to work out well, but it seemed like they were not going to be a workable solution for me.
   
  Next I hooked them up to my mac mini, via spdif.  I wanted to hear how bad the distortion was going to be from playing music, so I scrounged around in my music library for some examples.  Most of my music is ALAC, or high-bitrate MP3.  I tried to find some tracks with somewhat heavy bass to midbass content as I was trying to get the same frequencies as the action in Bioshock 2.  To my surprise, however, I didn't really notice any distortion.  The music was coming through pretty clean.  I tried hooking the headphones to my mac mini and ipod touch via bluetooth, and again I experienced no real distortion issues.
   
  Then I wanted to test the wireless functionality at range, so I walked around my apartment.  My apartment's really small, but still when I got to the bathroom (maybe only 10-15 feet away but through a wall or two) the sound cut out.  The range definitely seems pretty limited, but at the same time my apartment is totally _inundated_ with wifi routers (I can see probably like 15-20 router signals from my computer), so interference could be playing the bigger role here.  I think the 5.8GHz band of the Mixamp would fare a lot better in this situation.  Nevertheless, when sitting at my couch I didn't really experience any issue.  I did hear some pops/dropouts, but for the most part it worked okay.
   
  Revisiting the hiss, in practice it has turned out to be a much less substantial issue than I originally thought.  Either other sounds quickly overpower it, or I mentally adjust and no longer really notice the hiss.  Especially if something is actually playing through the headphones.
   
  I hooked my PC up to the base unit by running a long optical cable from my PC into the other room where the base unit was.  In the final setup, the transmitting base is basically just behind a wall from where I sit at my PC.  I didn't really experience transmission issues with the headphones when sitting at the PC.  I tried playing some Star Trek Online, and Starcraft 2.  Again, as with RDR, I did'nt really notice any sound distortion while playing these games.  I turn the music in STO off, and since parts of the game are very quiet with no music, I was able for the first time to actually hear the background hiss along with the game audio.  In starcraft 2 I didn't notice any hiss.  I tried to hook up the mic to my computer using bluetooth (my PC mobo has a built-in bluetooth adapter) abut while I was able to pair it to the PC, it was totally unusable due to extremely poor signal reception.  I suspect this is more a failing of bluetooth on my PC rather than a problem with the headset.  Bluetooth worked just fine on both my mac mini and ipod touch, and I had previously tried to connect a bluetooth mouse to my PC and experienced the similar problems (poor tracking indicative of extremely poor signal reception).  I guess the bluetooth antenna on my mobo backplate is just too constrained in terms of positioning (right next to a large noisy metal box full of electronics) to be of any practical value.  If I use the mic on my PC I'll need to run a cable from the headphones to the mic jack.
   
  Finally I did some brief testing with a couple blu-rays.  As I suspected, one cannot hear blu-rays with these headphones if the audio track is DTS-MA, as the transmitter lacks the capability to decode DTS.  I had to change the audio output to simple stereo to hear anything there.  For Blu-rays with DD5.1, it works fine.  My blu-ray testing is less than rigorous since the only blu-rays I own are the BBC Natural History collection.  They have some blu-rays with DTS and some with DD5.1, but the sounds in these programs are pretty low key.  There is not too much use of surround, LFE, etc. mainly just narration and some background.  But using the headphones worked pretty good for the DD5.1 blu-ray I watched, and the sound was again fine (no distortions).  BTW the BBC natural history collections are fantastic, fantastic programs.
   
  So what's the result so far?  I'm really torn.  I need to go back and do more testing on the 360, because that was where I heard the worst sound.  I am really not sure why the sound in Bioshock 2 was so bad.  Perhaps it was that I wasn't using the right headphone "preset" settings, since that was only about 10-15 minutes after I took the headphones out of the box.  Maybe the sound in Bioshock 2 really IS that bad, and using headphones just let me hear the flaws in the audio more clearly, maybe the frequency response of BS2 just happens to not match with the PX5 well?  Maybe I'm hearing compression due to the DD5.1 encoding, compared to the lossless PCM signal I use when listening to music, I really don't know.  I will need to test that game again, also more thoroughly test some other games I have.  Listening to music and other sources of audio seemed a lot better though, no real distortion problems.  Soundstage on the headphones feels pretty good though.  I am not hardcore into competitive FPS so I can't really say much about positional accuracy, but the "sound field" feels pretty good and is pretty immersive.  These are just amateur observations though since I am not really an expert on soundstage and have limited experience with other headphones by which to compare.
   
  I am really rooting for these headphones, because as far as convenience and versatility, these headphones are exactly what I am looking for.  I was able to hook it up to all 3 devices I want to use, even get bluetooth functionality between it and my ipod touch, and the wireless reception seems pretty good for my particular setup, which arguably is a challenging enviroment given how many wifi signals are in my building.  Being totally wire-free is a HUGE plus for me.  I can't even imagine having to walk around with *10 feet* of PC360 cable coiled up leading to a Y adapter and then into a mixamp receive dongle.  Sound-wise, I was initially very let down by my experience in bioshock 2, but after continued use I have been a lot more satisfied by the results.  The wireless connection seems pretty good, although somewhat limited on range.  I do get the occasional pop which is annoying.  I guess the bottom line is if these headphones, with what flaws they may have, are worth the $250, and can I look beyond the perceived flaws in audio quality in order to keep the excellent versatility/usability of these headphones?  There seem to be some definite drawbacks in quality, some aspects of the phones feel quite "chintzy" or cheap, and probably sound quality suffers somewhat (distortion, hiss) compared to more dedicated sets of heapdhones, but the package as a whole is pretty good.  I'm going to need to give them a little mroe time to make a final decision.  If these were say $150, I'd likely have no reservations about keeping them, but at $250, they may need to bring more to the table.
   
  HOLY CRAP that was a LOT longer than I intended it to be.  Congrats for those of you who made it through the whole thing... 
   
  Ruahrc


----------



## rayuma

Great review Ruahrc! 
   
  When using the PX5s, did you have any issues with interference and lag when playing online games? There have been some that reported problems when playing on Xbox Live. I might be interested in picking up the PX5s for MW3.


----------



## Ruahrc

Haven't ran into any issues, but so fat only limited multiplayer testing.  I played a bunch of Star Trek Online and didn't notice any lag.  The brief bits of multiplayer Bioshock 2 didn't seem to have any lag either (or at least none that was clearly the fault of the headphones as opposed to general internet connectivity and the user-hosted connections of XBL games)


----------



## LINKUZZZ

Hey,
   
  I got a new PC a few months ago, and I'm ready to upgrade my sound system. My PC specs are below. I got the A40 Mixamp+headset a while ago, but I'm ready for an upgrade. I'm basically looking for a setup that works best for gaming, movies, and music. Gaming sound being the most important out of the 3. I'm starting to podcast, so I'd really like some input on some good microphones. I'll list what I'm looking for below.
   
*Sound Card*
  I'm looking for a high quality sound card with a headphone amp I can use to power my headphones. I'll probably add a headphone amp like the suggested e9-10 at some point in the future. The best options at the moment seem to be between the ASUS Xonar Essence STX, and Auzentech X-Fi Hometheater HD. The ASUS card was build for stereo sound, is made with quality components with good isolation, and has Dolby Headphone. Its also powered by the power supply, and not the motherboard. The Auzentech doesn't come with Dolby Headphone, but generally has better overall features, especially for listen to movies. Its a hard choice to make, so it would be great to hear some opinions.
   
*Headworn Microphone *
  I'm also looking for high quality headworn microphone I can use to podcast and game with. It should have a 3.5mm mic input for the PC, and be able to fit under my headphones. My budget is between $100-200. Microphones seem to be the hardest to research on, since there is so little documentation.
   
*Headphones *
  I plan to get balanced headphones like the Beyerdynamics DT990 600ohm, since the score here seems to be the best out of all the options. I'm also interested if anyone could give feedback on the Beyerdynamic T1, and comment on if its better balanced than the DT990. Hopefully its 10/10 fun, and 9/10 competitive. I'd be willing to buy a used set if that were the case. 
   
*headphone Amp*
  For headphone amps I'm looking at the Fiio E9-E10, as a lot of people have suggested. Unless someone has a different opinion these seem to be good enough for what I need. Maybe Auzentech Cappuccino Ex that's coming out this winter would be a good option.
   
   
  Its been awhile I haven't posted here. I was one of the first individuals in North America to own a Philips SBC ATH1000 wired Dolby Headphone unit back in the day. I wonder if my old topic post is still on this forum. Wow posted in 2004:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/90618/dolby-headphone-solution-for-non-wireless-headphones
   
   
  Case: COOLER MASTER HAF X EATX TOWER CASE
 Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68 DELUXE
 Processor: INTEL CORE I7-2600K
 Heatsink: NOCTUA NH-D14
 Memory: G.SKILL RIPJAWS 16GB 4X4GB DDR3-1600
 Video Cards: 2x ASUS GeForce GTX 580 Rog Matrix
 SSD: OCZ Vertex 3 240GB
 HD: WESTERN DIGITAL 2TB CAVIAR GREEN
 DVD: LITEON IHBS112 12X BLU-RAY WRITER
 Sound Card: On-Board Realtek HD Audio
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Power Supply: CORSAIR 1200AX PROFESSIONAL GOLD SERIES


----------



## Eric_C

For games and movies, how is the A40 setup lacking? That Dolby mix ought to be great for both. 

For recording, I remember the noobtoob podcasters using their A40 headsets to record some time back. Audio didn't suffer--just try it out first and see if you need something more.


----------



## Iorek

Hello all, first time poster here.
   
  I've spent most of the weekend researching headphones/DACs/amps on this forum and other various sources. The primary use is going to be non-competitive gaming. I'm not a super serious music listener and I typically use my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers for that. I suppose if the headphones sounded amazing enough I'd be willing to use them more in that regard. I'm currently using Sennheiser HD595s with no amp and a SoundBlaster X-Fi Titanium.
   
  I've pretty much decided on the Beyer Dynamic DT990 Premium 600 OHM headphones and ASUS Xonar STX for the DAC, but I'm still on the fence about the amp. I'm strongly considering the HiFiMan EF5, but I wanted to ask about something first. From what I've read it sounds like it's a solid amp that will mellow out the highs, bring out the mids, and tighten the bass; however, that's in regard to music. My question is how will this amp influence gaming sounds? Will the mellowing attributes of a tube amp negatively affect gaming? Would a more neutral amp be better?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## Eric_C

Hi lorek, I can't speak much about the 990 specifically since I tried them a long time ago, but you seem to be considering a bit of a contradiction:
  You want to take the DT990, which is commonly said to have a V-shaped sound (recessed mids, boosted lows and highs), and pair it with an amp that will lower the highs, bring forward the mids, and control the bass better. That's akin to wanting, ultimately, a flatter sound signature. Why not just start with a more neutral headphone like the 880?


----------



## Iorek

That's originally the headphone I was going with, but then I read about the 5-7 o'clock "blind spot" on the 880s and the wider soundstage on the 990s. Don't get me wrong, I actually like a V-shaped curve, but from most accounts the highs are too harsh on the 990 and I would like to mellow them a bit. Though admittedly I haven't listened to them so who knows!
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hi lorek, I can't speak much about the 990 specifically since I tried them a long time ago, but you seem to be considering a bit of a contradiction:
> You want to take the DT990, which is commonly said to have a V-shaped sound (recessed mids, boosted lows and highs), and pair it with an amp that will lower the highs, bring forward the mids, and control the bass better. That's akin to wanting, ultimately, a flatter sound signature. Why not just start with a more neutral headphone like the 880?


----------



## Eric_C

Well, I've gamed non-competitively on my 880 for about a year now and I haven't found the "blind spot" to be a bother--in fact I don't notice it, which is probably why I'll never be able to go pro, haha! There's enough bass in the 880, and if anything, you could always run it through a cheap DJ mixer (like I do, with my Xbox) if you want to fiddle with EQ knobs. I did for a bit. Now I just can't be bothered and leave it flat.
   
  In the end, though, if you're just playing for fun--whether online or offline--I don't think you need to splurge a whole lot on amazing headphones. Was just at a LAN shop yesterday playing MW2, and their cheap Logitech headset (looked like this one) was just fine for locating people running nearby. If you do spend, the reviews here and elsewhere on the 'Net would suggest a good decoder is more important, such as the Ear Force DSS or Astro MixAmp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





iorek said:


> Hello all, first time poster here.
> I've spent most of the weekend researching headphones/DACs/amps on this forum and other various sources. The primary use is going to be non-competitive gaming. I'm not a super serious music listener and I typically use my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers for that. I suppose if the headphones sounded amazing enough I'd be willing to use them more in that regard. I'm currently using Sennheiser HD595s with no amp and a SoundBlaster X-Fi Titanium.
> I've pretty much decided on the Beyer Dynamic DT990 Premium 600 OHM headphones and ASUS Xonar STX for the DAC, but I'm still on the fence about the amp. I'm strongly considering the HiFiMan EF5, but I wanted to ask about something first. From what I've read it sounds like it's a solid amp that will mellow out the highs, bring out the mids, and tighten the bass; however, that's in regard to music. My question is how will this amp influence gaming sounds? Will the mellowing attributes of a tube amp negatively affect gaming? Would a more neutral amp be better?
> Thanks in advance!


 
  If you hook up an external amplifier (HiFiMan EF5) to the RCA outputs of the Essence STX, you will bypass advance audio processing of the Essence STX and you will only get a really nice sounding stereo 2.0 sound.
  Better to upgrade the 3 op-amps of the Essence STX and use it's built in amplifier.


----------



## Iorek

Yeah, I'm aware that I don't need to spend this kind of money for casual PC gaming, but I've got money to blow and I haven't bought enough shiny new toys lately 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Well, I've gamed non-competitively on my 880 for about a year now and I haven't found the "blind spot" to be a bother--in fact I don't notice it, which is probably why I'll never be able to go pro, haha! There's enough bass in the 880, and if anything, you could always run it through a cheap DJ mixer (like I do, with my Xbox) if you want to fiddle with EQ knobs. I did for a bit. Now I just can't be bothered and leave it flat.
> 
> In the end, though, if you're just playing for fun--whether online or offline--I don't think you need to splurge a whole lot on amazing headphones. Was just at a LAN shop yesterday playing MW2, and their cheap Logitech headset (looked like this one) was just fine for locating people running nearby. If you do spend, the reviews here and elsewhere on the 'Net would suggest a good decoder is more important, such as the Ear Force DSS or Astro MixAmp.


 


  By "advance audio processing" do you mean Dolby Headphone? I thought the RCA outs were analog, and you'd only bypass the card if you used the digital out. Apparently I don't know as much as I thought I did.


  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If you hook up an external amplifier (HiFiMan EF5) to the RCA outputs of the Essence STX, you will bypass advance audio processing of the Essence STX and you will only get a really nice sounding stereo 2.0 sound.
> Better to upgrade the 3 op-amps of the Essence STX and use it's built in amplifier.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





linkuzzz said:


> *Sound Card*
> I'm looking for a high quality sound card with a headphone amp I can use to power my headphones. I'll probably add a headphone amp like the suggested e9-10 at some point in the future. The best options at the moment seem to be between the ASUS Xonar Essence STX, and Auzentech X-Fi Hometheater HD. The ASUS card was build for stereo sound, is made with quality components with good isolation, and has Dolby Headphone. Its also powered by the power supply, and not the motherboard. The Auzentech doesn't come with Dolby Headphone, but generally has better overall features, especially for listen to movies. Its a hard choice to make, so it would be great to hear some opinions.
> 
> *Headworn Microphone *
> I'm also looking for high quality headworn microphone I can use to podcast and game with. It should have a 3.5mm mic input for the PC, and be able to fit under my headphones. My budget is between $100-200. Microphones seem to be the hardest to research on, since there is so little documentation.


 

 Regarding that underlined bit, it's because X-Fi cards have CMSS-3D Headphone instead, which is functionally similar to Dolby Headphone. Whether you prefer it to Dolby Headphone or not is another matter; since you have a Mixamp and the Auzentech X-Fi cards have Dolby Digital Live for their S/PDIF outputs, you can use whichever one suits your tastes better for gaming. (I'm not going to say which is better just because I haven't had the chance to test Dolby Headphone in a gaming environment due to lack of Mixamp or similar device.)
   
  As for the microphone question, this mic seems promising. One of the HTF600 users seems to like it. I don't actually have one, but it does seem like a nice way to turn any competent stereo headphone into a headset, and it's detachable to boot!
   
  For headphones and amps, I can't properly advise you because I haven't really experienced much and don't quite have a clear grasp on your budget, though if you're considering the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1, that's one expensive piece of kit, firmly in electrostatic (Stax, Koss ESP/950) price territory.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





iorek said:


> By "advance audio processing" do you mean Dolby Headphone? I thought the RCA outs were analog, and you'd only bypass the card if you used the digital out. Apparently I don't know as much as I thought I did.


 
  With a source using Dolby Digital 5.1, the 6 channel of sound needs no further processing, just converted to analog (with DACs) and then amplified.
   
  I'm not an expert on these things (but I do a lot of reading on it) so feel free to double check anything I say,
  With Optical Digital out, you do bypass advance audio processing, but you still send thru a "raw" Dolby Digital 5.1 signal (or just Dolby Digital 2.0).
  Then whatever the digital 5.1 signal is sent to uses a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) to make it an analog signal
   
  The RCA analog output is only two channels (right/left), Dolby Headphone 5.1 (or games that support 5.1 sound) is 6 channels.
   
  With computer games, game sound engines like EAX, OpenAL, etc do processing before the digital signal is sent to the DACs.
  Only sound cards can do this processing job, not external amplifiers.
   
  With the Essence STX you can install the latest op-amps.
   
  Tube amplifiers are nice, tubes add "warm" and "soul" to the sound.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> With a source using Dolby Digital 5.1, the 6 channel of sound needs no further processing, just converted to analog (with DACs) and then amplified.


 

  
  You're assuming a physical 5.1 speaker setup, right? Because if OP wants to use Dolby 5.1 with headphones there has to be a mix-down occurring somewhere, to make the 5.1 channels of sound usable on stereo headphones.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> The RCA analog output is only two channels (right/left), Dolby Headphone 5.1 (or games that support 5.1 sound) is 6 channels.


 
   
  Does the soundcard simulate 5.1 on 2.0 if OP uses the RCA out?
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> With computer games, game sound engines like EAX, OpenAL, etc do processing before the digital signal is sent to the DACs.
> Only *sound cards can do this processing job*, not external amplifiers.


 
   
  Or the Astro MixAmp, Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS, or JVC SU-DH1.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





linkuzzz said:


> Hey,
> I got a new PC a few months ago, and I'm ready to upgrade my sound system. My PC specs are below. I got the A40 Mixamp+headset a while ago, but I'm ready for an upgrade. I'm basically looking for a setup that works best for gaming, movies, and music. Gaming sound being the most important out of the 3. I'm starting to podcast, so I'd really like some input on some good microphones. I'll list what I'm looking for below.
> *Sound Card*
> I'm looking for a high quality sound card with a headphone amp I can use to power my headphones. I'll probably add a headphone amp like the suggested e9-10 at some point in the future. The best options at the moment seem to be between the ASUS Xonar Essence STX, and Auzentech X-Fi Hometheater HD. The ASUS card was build for stereo sound, is made with quality components with good isolation, and has Dolby Headphone. Its also powered by the power supply, and not the motherboard. The Auzentech doesn't come with Dolby Headphone, but generally has better overall features, especially for listen to movies. Its a hard choice to make, so it would be great to hear some opinions.
> ...


 

 With the Asus Xonar Essence STX, the built in headphone amplifier should do the job just fine.
  Can't see any reason to get a separate external headphone amplifier (I'm not trying to knock the Fiio)
  Nice thing with the Essence STX, you can spent $14 to $35 upgrading the 3 op-amps (operational amplifiers).
  An external amplifier can get away with using only $6 worth of op-amps.
  You can hook up analog  5.1 speakers to the Essence STX, as long as the speakers have a digital input.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> You're assuming a physical 5.1 speaker setup, right? Because if OP wants to use Dolby 5.1 with headphones there has to be a mix-down occurring somewhere, to make the 5.1 channels of sound usable on stereo headphones.
> 
> Does the soundcard simulate 5.1 on 2.0 if OP uses the RCA out?
> 
> Or the Astro MixAmp, Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS, or JVC SU-DH1.


 
  Analog (physical) 5.1 speaker setup, speakers that come with a optical or coaxial digital input, that have built in Dolby decoding.
  I'm not a Dolby expert, I would assume the Dolby people figured out how to change/modify Dolby Digital 5.1 into Dolby "Virtual" headphone 5.1,
  which I'm assuming tricks the human ear into thinking is getting 5.1 sound from a 2.0 stereo signal.
  
  There appear to be on my Essence STX's control panel, a setting for Dolby Virtual Speaker for when the STX is set to "2 Speaker".
   
  The 3 external amplifiers (Astro MixAmp, TBS EarForce DSS, and JVCSU-D1) come with Dolby Digital 5.1.
  If a game's Audio Processing Engine was designed to work with Dolby Digital 5.1. those 3 amps would do the job.
  I've heard that setting a game's audio setting to "Home Theater" works best for Dolby Digital 5.1.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> There appear to be on my Essence STX's control panel, a setting for Dolby Virtual Speaker 5.1 for when the STX is set to "2 Speaker".


 

 And this setting can be in effect even when using the RCA outs? That would contradict your earlier statement that using the RCA output would bypass any "advance audio processing", since achieving virtual 5.1 out of an actual 2.0 setup must mean the sound is being processed.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> The 3 external amplifiers (Astro MixAmp, TBS EarForce DSS, and JVCSU-D1) come with Dobly Digital 5.1.
> If a game's Audio Processing Engine was designed to work with Dolby Digital 5.1. those 3 amps would do the job.
> I've heard the setting a game's audio setting to "Home Theater" works best for Dolby Digital 5.1.


 
   
  It oversimplifies things to call the MixAmp, DSS and SU-DH1 "external amplifiers". As discussed many times in this thread alone, they do more than amplify, and as amps they fall short if handling headphones that are as high impedance as lorek is considering.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> And this setting can be in effect even when using the RCA outs? That would contradict your earlier statement that using the RCA output would bypass any "advance audio processing", since achieving virtual 5.1 out of an actual 2.0 setup must mean the sound is being processed.
> It oversimplifies things to call the MixAmp, DSS and SU-DH1 "external amplifiers". As discussed many times in this thread alone, they do more than amplify, and as amps they fall short if handling headphones that are as high impedance as lorek is considering.


 
  I Think i might have been trying to say when you have the a headphone hooked up to the external amplifier and the amplifier RCAs, to the RCAs on the sound card, when the sound card's control panel is set to "speaker", which enables the RCAs jack, you do not have any setting for "Dolby Headphone" just "Dolby Virtual Speaker", which may be only a Dolby codeing for desktop speakers, not headphones.
  I could be that Asus thought they had put a good enough headphone amplifier on the STX, that most buyers would not feel the need to use an external headphone amplifier.
   
  I've had my Essence STX for several months, using headphones, It's was only two days ago I got some analog 2.1 speakers hooked you to it. So I never really played with any analog speakers setting before. I had never even seen the "Virtual Speaker" setting before.
  I did say if a previous post, "I'm not an expert, feel free to double check everything I say".
   
  I believe I did talk about the 3 "external amplifiers" having Dolby Digital 5.1 features and the best setting for using them for gaming.
  I really did not want to go into details on the 3 "external amps", because I would rather push for a sound card with the built in headphone amp. instead.


----------



## Iorek

Ah, that makes sense. So just to confirm, you can only use Dolby Headphone if you're using the headphone out on the sound card?
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I Think i might have been trying to say when you have the a headphone hooked up to the external amplifier and the amplifier RCAs, to the RCAs on the sound card, when the sound card's control panel is set to "speaker", which enables the RCAs jack, you do not have any setting for "Dolby Headphone" just "Dolby Virtual Speaker", which may be only a Dolby codeing for desktop speakers, not headphones.
> I could be that Asus thought they had put a good enough headphone amplifier on the STX, that most buyers would not feel the need to use an external headphone amplifier.
> 
> I've had my Essence STX for several months, using headphones, It's was only two days ago I got some analog 2.1 speakers hooked you to it. So I never really played with any analog speakers setting before. I had never even seen the "Virtual Speaker" setting before.
> ...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





iorek said:


> Ah, that makes sense. So just to confirm, you can only use Dolby Headphone if you're using the headphone out on the sound card?


 
  I would say more you can't use the "RCAs for Dolby Headphone 5.1"
   
  Because you still have the option of Optical Digital output to send Dolby Digital 5.1 to something like the Mix-Amp, which does Dolby Headphone 5.1.
  (Just to make sure I'm not leaving details out).


----------



## Ruahrc

PX5 update:
   
  After continued use I am going to return these headphones and don't think I am going to get the XP500s.  The hiss in the headphones has become more of a noticeable issue to me recently than before.  Maybe it is because I have been subconsciously lowering the audio volume of the headphones, or that I have also played more quieter games, but I can definitely hear hiss in quiet parts of games.
   
   
  Another big problem I noticed was that there must be something loose in the right earcup of this headset, since I hear a rattle on that side, which seems to come and go with the sound content.  It happens even at low headphone volume levels, and didn't seem to be reliant on bass-heavy sounds either.  Originally I thought it was the battery cover vibrating, but I removed that and still heard the rattle.  I also thought it was the loose buttons rattling from the sound (see my previous post) but even if I put my hand over the buttons to stop them from moving I get the rattle.  It seemed to be improved or went away if I held the right earcup tighter against my head with my hand or put my head against a pillow, in order to dampen any vibration, but obviously not an ideal setup for usage.  I can only conclude that it is a minor manufacturing defect in the headphones since the left earcup is fine.
   
  I also believe I initially mistook this rattle for distortion in my initial tests of Bioshock 2, hence my descriptions of "severe distortion" in my initial comments.  Further testing with that game, however, determined that there still was some distortion in the sound not caused by the rattle, and that IMHO this game easily pushes the capability of headphones.  Ultimately I concluded that Bioshock 2 is a particularly challenging game for sound, as it seems there is a lot of bass-midbass range frequencies in the explosions and action that most headphones might have trouble with.  I'd be curious if anyone else out there had BS2 and could test their headphones on it, for the game seems like a good "stress test".  It has some very good ambient/surround sounds (in quality, variety, and directionality), as well as very challenging sound during combat.  FWIW I used the final level of the game "Inner Persephone" for testing.
   
  I played some Halo Reach and the sound was a lot better.  I did not notice any significant distortion.
   
  Wireless connectivity seemed to be fine for the areas in which I used the headphones, both sitting at my PC (in another room from the transmitting base) and on my couch.
   
  One other problem I discovered is that when using bluetooth mode I could hear some extra "digital noise" in the right earcup (where the BT electronics are).  It was pretty faint but added to the already audible hiss from the transmitter.  Presumably, this would be audible if you were to use the BT radio to handle game chat.
   
  Battery life was okay in my opinion.  During the 6 days that I have used the headphones, I have gone through 2 sets of batteries.  However, since I was doing a lot of listening in order to test the headphones, I probably put a lot of hours on them during those 6 days.  Both times, they were Eneloop AA cells (2000 mAh), however they were not freshly charged, so a little decay was present.  However since they are LSD cells I would estimate they were at least 85% full at the time of usage.  This is assuming that in general Eneloops drain down to 85% capacity after a month on the shelf, and then slowly down to about 75% after a year or more.  One thing I didn't like though was that there was no warning when the headphones died.  I was literally in the middle of a cutscene in Halo Reach when they just turned off.  No warning beforehand, and no notification that you have run out of battery either.  You have to try to turn them on again in order to get the message that the batteries are low.  It would be nice to get a low battery life warning so you can at least pick a better opportunity to switch batteries.
   
  In general I would say that these headphones are pretty light on the bass.  Most of the time I used the headphones using the "main" preset, which has dolby headphone processing but no EQ.  I am not a basshead but was definitely left wanting for more "impact" in the bass using "main" mode.  Switching the presets to #2 or #4 (bass boost and bass+treble boost, respectively- both with DH processing) improved the impact of the bass to a level I was more satisfied with, albiet with slightly increased distortion.  I did not go through the effort to download and install the PC software where you could make your own presets, but I guess I could have created a custom preset that added a little bass without going overboard.  Listening to the headphones in their "neutral" state though, they seemed to lack bass.
   
  Ultimately I don't think these headphones are worth the money, given the various issues I have since discovered since using them.  I still think they're the ultimate in convenience and versatility, but perhaps too many compromises are made in the build and sound quality in exchange for that.  It's really too bad since I love the usage of the headphones, just can't justify the cost for the quality.
   
  So I guess I'm now stuck at looking at a mixamp 5.8 + headset route, and all the cables...  What options might there be as far as headsets with removable cables that you can switch for a shorter set?  After my half-week of usage with the PX5s, although they are conveniently wire-free I think that having an extra dongle wouldn't be a disaster, so long as the cable between the headset and the dongle is of an appropriately short length.


----------



## ronfifer

*EDIT: Decision made.* I will give the *Samson SR850* a go. Now i need to enable 3D surround sound (using Dolby or any other technology) on these headphones by buying a 3rd party USB sound card or mixamp. I dont think my on-board stereo sound card will suffice. I dont have any experience or knowledge about Dolby or mixamps so i would appreciate your help.
  Which USB sound card or amp can i plug into my laptop and connect the Samson SR850 headphone to it and enable a true Surround sound experience (3D pinpointing of sounds in FPS games).
*==========================================================================================*
  Hi Guys. I would really appreciate narrowing down my choices after doing a long dedicated research with too many options in my hand.
   
  I am looking for a *Gaming headset* to be used for *FPS gaming* and listening to some *electronic music*.
   
  I mostly play: Battlefield 3 and Bad Company 2 -  Call of Duty Series - and other modern shooters.
   
*My platform*:
  
*HP Pavilion DV6-6096 Laptop*
*Soundcard: On-board IDT High definition with BEATS Audio Technology.*
  Sound input: Three 3.5mm jacks and USB 3.0 inputs.
   
*Requirements listed according to priority*:
   
*1)* *Positioning* of in-game enemies in terms of *DIRECTION(as close as 360 degrees and not just left and right)+DISTANCE*. Distinguishing footsteps. _(Similar to the AD700 experience)_
*2)* *Immersion* in terms of sound clarity and detail level, richness of explosions and bullet sounds, and hearing sounds i couldn't hear before.
*3) Plug and play*: The Headset should be full functional when plugged to my built in sound card on my laptop. I dont mind buying a USB sound card that supports Dolby Surround if you name me one. (Do i need it?)
   
So I'm looking for a compromise between excellent in-game positioning (and 3D audio mapping) and a high quality bass rich sound in one headset.
   
*Budget*: Between 40 and 80 dollars max including shipping. I live in France. Dont worry about that, i just need the name of the One headset.
   
*Narrowed down list*: People on this forum suggested to similar users to get the:
   
*1)* *Samson SR850*: 50mm drivers. up to 30KHz response. Users on Head-fi claim it to have an *excellent soundstage* and detail level almost similar to the AD700 AND it offers better bass. But it *lacks long term comfort*. I am not sure about how well it performs in positioning the enemy (direction+distance); if this happens to be also covered decently by the SR850 then i am going for it. *49 Euros*
  
*2)**JVC HA-RX700* (plus modding?): a good bang for the buck! Anyone can give more insight on its performance in FPS games?comes with 50mm drivers. *41 Euros*
   
*3)* *Shure SRH440*: 40mm drivers, up to 22KHz response.Recommended by a forum member. More Expensive: *75 Euros*.
   
  A general rule of thumb was that I should get a Headset that has a good neutral bass which i can lower down for better in-game positioning rather than a headset with little or no bass which provides synthetic quality audio if I am to manually increase its bass. (like the AD700).
   
  My list of candidates *before coming to this forum*:
   
*4)* *Corsair HS1 USB*: also offers 5.1 Surround, can perceive sounds from the sides but Not quite well from front and rear. It beats the Creative tactic3D sigma Headset (Stereo) in gaming due to its surround features. *76.9 Euros*
   
*5) Creative Draco HS-850 Gaming Headset*: 0-20KHz ,  40mm. It has a 40% discount and claims to offer great directional positioning. Not high end. On sale @*24 Euros* down from 49.
   
*6) Atari Live Gaming headset*: low impedance, microphone freq response up to 16KHz, looks cool  but no reviews. On sale @ *23 Euros* down from 40
   
  Based on your experience with any of those in the list, please help me choose one of those to match my requirements listed above. I am not sure if i need a true 5.1 Surround Headset for better positioning, feedback on this forum related to this subject got me confused.
   
  Thank you.
   
  Please send me your suggestions to my inbox to keep this thread clean.
   
  Much appreciated.


----------



## Eric_C

SteelSeries has a new Audio Mixer. Still stereo, but it works with PC, Xbox and PS3 now.
http://shop.steelseries.com/us/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audio-mixer.html


----------



## ronfifer

An enhanced version of the Superlux 668B is the *Samson SR850*. This is what you need.
   
  It provides an excellent soundstage with pinpoint directional accuracy *users compare it to the 3D mapping of the AD700), AND not at the cost of a lowered bass. it has a better bass than the AD700 which makes it an all rounder for gaming. Ironically it is designed as a studio Monitor headphone for Djs and gamers discovered it by chance==>it is highly underrated.
   
  Plus it only costs 40 to 50 dollars.
   
  Read all the reviews on it on this forum and else where and you'll know what i mean.
   
  (couple it with a decent X-Fi sound card with CSSM3D option or a Dolby headphone option for optimal gaming experience).
   
  By the way, what do you think of the new Gamecom 777 USB 7.1 ?
  
  Quote: 





dmann said:


> Ok I have done alot of researching and learned alot (or I am pretty sure I have) since I joined this forum to find a headphone. I am a competitive gamer, but I also listen to music like classic rock, and dubstep, rarely movies, and like to be immersed with
> gaming(CS 1.6/CZ(don't make fun of me) ) as well as music. I would like to hear footsteps and wallspams in cs, and I also would like to have the best soundstage and imaging(directional pinpointing) available.
> 
> I have only had 20 dollar Wal-Mart headphones and a *Gamecom 777* headset. I like closed headphones cause I don't want to hear the fan blowing, ect.
> ...


----------



## matryx

The local electronics store in my area is having a BOGO deal. Which headphones would be best for me? I'm using it for gaming and movies. I prefer an open or semi-open that's comfortable with a decent amount of bass. It's for the games that I play the campaign with.
   
http://www.futureshop.ca/CATALOG/category.aspx?category=HeadphonesBOGO


----------



## Vonx

I have the ax720's for a long time and although i have much more higher end phones, I, to be honest find these ABSOLUTELY perfect for what i need to do, which is sound whore. 
   
  I re-plugged them in today after a hiatus and instantly was back up on my top notch game within a few matches (cod of course) and even though i have a horrible OCD about upgrading and am harshly critical, i just cant find a flaw in these things.
   
  The AX Pro's, even though they cost more, are actually a huge step down. They are a hassle to set up volumes on each individual speaker and they really just dont even sound as good. The ax pro's are an old model and the ax 720's are a far better headphone even if the price makes you think otherwise.
   
  Yet, the upgrading critical-ian in me has me thinking there are better headphones out there that might warrant upgrades worth the cost, but i just am wondering HOW much better?
   
  The ax-720's sound a little funky as far as sound quality and realism alone BUT footsteps, gun reloads, image placement, and being that they are not too bassy to overwhelm detail, i just cant imagine anything being much better..
   
  I love the OP and I love this thread but is there someone who has spent a legitimately long amount of time with the tritton ax-720's and upgraded and actually found an improvement in the gaming aspects (and not just sound quality, since the trittons judged on that note are pretty poor)


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





matryx said:


> The local electronics store in my area is having a BOGO deal. Which headphones would be best for me? I'm using it for gaming and movies. I prefer an open or semi-open that's comfortable with a decent amount of bass. It's for the games that I play the campaign with.
> 
> http://www.futureshop.ca/CATALOG/category.aspx?category=HeadphonesBOGO


 

 Just had a quick look...I think the Sennheisers are your best bet. The 558 gets mixed reception here on its bass, although it should be good for positioning (and thus movies as well). However, it's pricey enough that the wireless RS160 is just $50 more. 
  You'll prob want to see which one's bassier and go for that one I guess?
   
  Edit:
  Well the wireless option certainly seems good in this review:
  http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/4634/sennheiser-rs-160-headphones-review


----------



## Armaegis

The prices seem really meh there...


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Just had a quick look...I think the Sennheisers are your best bet. The 558 gets mixed reception here on its bass, although it should be good for positioning (and thus movies as well). However, it's pricey enough that the wireless RS160 is just $50 more.
> You'll prob want to see which one's bassier and go for that one I guess?
> 
> Edit:
> ...


 


  I had the 558 before and returned because of the lack of bass. I would like to mention that I'm using the AX 720 decoder box so I'm not sure how the RS160 wireless will integrate with it.


----------



## Vonx

No responses? *tear


----------



## Ruahrc

Amazon seems to be running a sale on the Sennheiser PC360s... $170
   
  Seems like these are the "go-to" headset around here, and this seems to be the lowest price I've seen.  Worth trying?
   
  My only concern here is being able to shorten the cable.  Has anyone cut their PC360 cable and soldered on an inline plug so you could alternate between short and long headphone cables?
   
  I'm thinking of the following setup:
   
  Astro Mixamp 5.8 for xbox 360 and mac mini- PC360 headset
   
  ASUS Xonar U3 USB sound card for my gaming PC (in another room, so connecting to the mixamp base unit is hard), connected direct to PC360.  The Xonar U3 has DH processing in it so as long as I'm okay with the cable, I won't need to worry about losing out on DH processing from the Mixamp.  As my gaming rig is built on the mITX platform, I have no free internal expansion slots for a dedicated soundcard.
   
  Ideally I'd solder a mini plug onto the headset, so I can use a short cable with the mixamp, and a long cable with the PC.
   
  Ruahrc
   
  Update: got impatient   I ordered the PC360 headset along with the Xonar U3 for my PC, and also ordered the Mixamp 5.8 for my console.  After my experience with the PX5's at least I'll have something to compare by.  Hope I like these.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





ruahrc said:


> Amazon seems to be running a sale on the Sennheiser PC360s... $170
> 
> Seems like these are the "go-to" headset around here, and this seems to be the lowest price I've seen.  Worth trying?
> 
> ...


 


  gl, thats another headphone i considered to be a possible upgrade but i cant justify paying 2-3 times as much for a headphone when i could get a ad700 for half the price. 
   
  my current rig is already more than i need, im just trying really hard to see if someone actually finds another headphone being a worthy upgrade from it that actually warrants the price


----------



## MustangVxD

Hello all.
   
  I have a ps3, Oppo bdp93 bluray, and NAD t747 receiver.  I use ps3media server from my laptop for music, but I am also moving all my music and moved to a 2TB HDD in a thermaltake external enclosure that will connect to the oppo player via Esata.
   
  I am looking into a wireless headset for gaming, music, and movie watching without disturbing my partner.
   
  I have a pair of westone 3's that I love and would like to know from someone with experience if they work well with the Astro mixamp 5.8. I would still have to find a solution to needing a mic but I figure I could use a clip-on somehow (anyone tell me what I should look into?)
   
  I am also considering the westone 4's since I have the ability to get them at a significant discount.  Would they be better for a mix of gaming, movies, and music when combined with the mixamp?
   
  I have looked into the ath-ad700 since many people have reviewed them for gaming (and the mic mods), but I really prefer IEM's.  I do have an interest in the beyerdynamic mmx300's but again...i really like not having cups over my ears.
   
  Any Westone 3 owners with a mixamp that can give me some advice?


----------



## toyopl

Hello all, quick question...
  For a laptop and fps games, which Bayerdynamic 770 Pro should I get ? 80ohm or 250ohm ?
  Should I run external amp for them ? If so which one ? I see a lot of mention for Astra Mixamp and the Fiio e10.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mustangvxd said:


> I would still have to find a solution to needing a mic but I figure I could use a clip-on somehow (anyone tell me what I should look into?)
> 
> I am also considering the westone 4's since I have the ability to get them at a significant discount.  Would they be better for a mix of gaming, movies, and music when combined with the mixamp?


 

 Mic: Zalman is a mic to start looking into. It has its fair share of supporters and haters, but at least searching that will give you a better idea of what options are available.
   
  Westone 4: Don't be fooled into thinking W4 > W3; technically, perhaps this is true. Whether you'll actually like it is a hotly debated subject--for example, I've tried the UM3X and like them much better than the Westone 4.
   

  
  Quote: 





toyopl said:


> Hello all, quick question...
> For a laptop and fps games, which Bayerdynamic 770 Pro should I get ? 80ohm or 250ohm ?
> Should I run external amp for them ? If so which one ? I see a lot of mention for Astra Mixamp and the Fiio e10.


 

 I can't think of a better thread to refer you to than Zombie_X's massive guide to all variants of the DT770, 880 and 990:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


----------



## 443330

Hey, Has anyone tried the Superlux HD668B's and could compare them to the AD-700s? I'm looking at these two because I will be using them mainly for fps gaming, and directional sound is very high on my list.
  Those are my two choices at the moment, I can get the AD-700's for 200 NZ and the Superlux HD668Bs for around 90 NZ.
  Which should I get? Oh I should mention I only have onboard sound at the moment. I really want the AD-700s but the price is a drawback for me. I was thinking of getting the HD668B's and the Asus Xonar DG soundcard.
  I welcome anybodies thoughts and opinions.
  Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





toyopl said:


> Hello all, quick question...
> For a laptop and fps games, which Bayerdynamic 770 Pro should I get ? 80ohm or 250ohm ?
> Should I run external amp for them ? If so which one ? I see a lot of mention for Astra Mixamp and the Fiio e10.


 
  I own both the DT-770 Pro 80-Ohm and DT770 Pro 250-Ohm.
  The 80-Ohm is for bassheads, I prefer the sound of the 250-Ohm.
  look up this thread for more info.
  "[Guide] Sonic Differences Between the DT770-DT990 Models & More"
   
  You would need a headphone amplifier for the 250-Ohm
  The 80-Ohm might work, but a headphone amplifier brings out it's best.
   
  Astra mix-amp can output Dolby Headphone 5.1
  Does your laptop have coaxial or optical output?
   
  The Fiio E10 does not come with Dolby built in.


----------



## toyopl

Lol, coaxial or optical, what's the difference again ? 
  Here's the laptop that I own.
   
  http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8170-clevo-p170hm-p-2971.html


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





toyopl said:


> Lol, coaxial or optical, what's the difference again ?
> Here's the laptop that I own.
> http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8170-clevo-p170hm-p-2971.html


 
 The laptop lists a "S/PDIF Digital output to 7.1 Channel"
  So it has the Digital output port and I think it's optical.
  But hopefully the manual has more details.


----------



## toyopl

That's what I could find as far as audio and my laptop...
   
  High Definition Audio
 3D Enhanced Sound System
 S/PDIF Digital Output
 Built-In Microphone
 THX TruStudio Pro
 7.1CH Audio output supported by
 headphone, microphone, S/PDIF & Line-In Jack
 5 Built-In Speakers and One Sub Woofer


----------



## Eric_C

The only important bit of info there is S/PDIF output. The input, speakers, etc. are irrelevant for your situation. 

Do some googling on S/PDIF, digital, optical and coaxial audio? Or just write Astro directly if that doesn't solve it?


----------



## toyopl

And what am I looking for ? How is this information relevant to purchasing DT770's ?
  I got lost on the way of what we are trying to find


----------



## Eric_C

Sorry, was replying you on my phone earlier, so I didn't have time to look through the reply.
   
  You mentioned that you were looking at an Astro MixAmp, right? And then Purple Angel stated the MixAmp can give you simulated 5.1 sound if you can feed it Optical output from your laptop.


----------



## toyopl

At the same time I'm trying to buy some decent set for my cousin who will be spending christmass with us, something in under $100 range.
  I see that amazon has Sennheiser HD 448 on sale for $55, these any good ? I need to get him something, so he won't feel left out 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002DGTGO0/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_d0_g23_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0ZJS7GAVSNQ49T6QM19K&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846


----------



## Ruahrc

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Sorry, was replying you on my phone earlier, so I didn't have time to look through the reply.
> 
> You mentioned that you were looking at an Astro MixAmp, right? And then Purple Angel stated the MixAmp can give you simulated 5.1 sound if you can feed it Optical output from your laptop.


 

  
  Can someone clear up exactly what kind of processing Dolby Headphone does to a stereo PCM signal?
   
  As I understand it, if your digital output is dolby encoded such as a movie or soundcard with DDLive! encoding, then DH kicks in full bore, and you get simulated surround using DH processing.
   
  According to dolby's website however, dolby headphone also has limited "stereo expansion" technology where it takes stereo sources and makes them sound more immersive.  The dolby website implies that it is only using dolby prologic II encoding for stereo sources.
   
  Therefore, just feeding a digital SPDIF signal (which is usually just a PCM stereo signal) into something like an Astro mixamp is not going to be enough, in order to get the "full effect", your digital signal also has to be DD5.1 encoded.  For example a movie with DD5.1 soundtrack.  Or, a soundcard that has DDLive! real time encoding.  I don't believe there currently are any laptop or motherboard integrated sound solutions that have DDLive! support, so you'd need a discrete soundcard (internal expansion slot or USB) that supports this in order to maximize benefit from DH and a device like the Astro mixamp.
   
  As far as laptop sound, I think your only options are to use a USB sound card such as the Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro which IIRC has DDLive! support.  Also there is the ASUS Xonar U3 which is another USB sound card that has DDLive! output however it also has built-in Dolby Headphone processing (which the creative card lacks, as it uses its own proprietary CMSS 3D technology), so there would not really be a need to use the mixamp, the Xonar U3 can do the DH processing on its own.  These are the only 2 USB sound cards I am aware of with DDLive! or DH support.  There is also the ASUS Xonar U1 (basically the same hardware as the U3 but in a different form factor) but it seems like it is harder to find.  If you only intend on using your laptop for gaming, I don't think you'd need the mixamp, rather you could get by with just the Xonar U3 (or similar) instead which would be cheaper- unless you wanted the wireless functionality of the mixamp 5.8, or the better control over voice/game chat mixing.
   
  Ruahrc


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ruahrc said:


> Can someone clear up exactly what kind of processing Dolby Headphone does to a stereo PCM signal?
> As I understand it, if your digital output is dolby encoded such as a movie or soundcard with DDLive! encoding, then DH kicks in full bore, and you get simulated surround using DH processing.
> According to dolby's website however, dolby headphone also has limited "stereo expansion" technology where it takes stereo sources and makes them sound more immersive.  The dolby website implies that it is only using dolby prologic II encoding for stereo sources.
> Therefore, just feeding a digital SPDIF signal (which is usually just a PCM stereo signal) into something like an Astro mixamp is not going to be enough, in order to get the "full effect", your digital signal also has to be DD5.1 encoded.  For example a movie with DD5.1 soundtrack.  Or, a soundcard that has DDLive! real time encoding.  I don't believe there currently are any laptop or motherboard integrated sound solutions that have DDLive! support, so you'd need a discrete soundcard (internal expansion slot or USB) that supports this in order to maximize benefit from DH and a device like the Astro mixamp.
> ...


 
  I really doubt they would include an "optical output" labeled "7.1 channels" if the laptop's audio could only output a 2.0 stereo signal.
  Add-on sound cards have had Dolby Digital 5.1 output for over 6 years,
  Desktop computers have 5.1 digital output built into the motherboard.
  Why would it not be possible for a brand new laptop?
   
  A DVD player can bitstream audio from a DVD movie disk to another device.
   
  But the Asus Xonar U3 USB sound card would be way cheaper then a Astro Mix-amp.


----------



## Eric_C

Ruahrc: Does a soundcard need to be able to process a 5.1 or 7.1 signal, in order to pass the signal over the an external device (such as the MixAmp)? 
  I do agree with you that the signal itself must be 5.1 or 7.1, but that has to do with the encoding of the game or movie.


----------



## Ashii

Hey all,
   
  Not sure where to post this, but joined the forums before I sleep JUST so I could 
  Been reading this thread a lot (a ton) over the last week, thought I'd contribute to its awesomeness.
   
  FiiO e9 $28 on Amazon!
   
  -Ashii


----------



## kingpage

That's $88 shipped to Australia. Not a bad deal, but not cheap enough to make me want it. Now $40 shipped would be a different story.


----------



## Ashii

Hm, just woke up, deal is done, weird. At about 2am PST last night, a bunch of 3rd party (fulfilled by Amazon) sellers had it listed for $28 (I bought one), when a couple hours prior they were retail price. But now they're back to normal.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Ruahrc: Does a soundcard need to be able to process a 5.1 or 7.1 signal, in order to pass the signal over the an external device (such as the MixAmp)?
> I do agree with you that the signal itself must be 5.1 or 7.1, but that has to do with the encoding of the game or movie.


 
  At least with a movie with Dolby, I do not believe(guess?) a sound card really has to do anything but pass the bitsteam audio signal on to the next device.
  Not sure what games do.


----------



## Ruahrc

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I really doubt they would include an "optical output" labeled "7.1 channels" if the laptop's audio could only output a 2.0 stereo signal.
> Add-on sound cards have had Dolby Digital 5.1 output for over 6 years,
> Desktop computers have 5.1 digital output built into the motherboard.
> Why would it not be possible for a brand new laptop?
> ...


 
   
  Addon cards have had 5.1 output but the vast majority of it actually seems to be pass-through only.  Your source audio has to be pre-encoded into DD5.1 in order for the sound card to put it out as DD5.1.  For movies it's pretty straightforward, the audio is pre-encoded in DD5.1 format and the computer audio hardware simply bitstreams it through its SPDIF Port.  Games do not natively generate DD5.1 signals, however, and to do that you need processing hardware and driver support, which is where audio cards come in.  AFAIK, very few onboard sound solutions have realtime 5.1 _encoding_, and I don't know of any laptop integrated solutions.  So yes, the laptop can be labeled 7.1 multichannel output by marketing but in reality it only means "7.1 multichannel bitstream or passthrough" and not true "7.1 output".  The laptop itself can only generate a 2.0 stereo signal because it lacks the hardware to do the realtime multichannel encoding.  Unless someone can provide an example of a laptop that has built-in DDLive!, as I am not aware of any.
   
  Consoles all have hardware that allows realtime encoding of DD5.1 (or maybe even DTS in the case of the PS3, I don't know) content which is why you see the dedicated DH Processors like the mixamp targeted at console gamers.  On the PC typically the soundcards themselves have drivers or hardware that replicates or simulates DH processing so a dedicated processor is not as necessary.
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Ruahrc: Does a soundcard need to be able to process a 5.1 or 7.1 signal, in order to pass the signal over the an external device (such as the MixAmp)?
> I do agree with you that the signal itself must be 5.1 or 7.1, but that has to do with the encoding of the game or movie.


 
   
  I guess the key issue is that while movies are already encoded, games are not, because you can't encode it ahead of time as the content is interactive and changing.  Audio in games is processed irrespective of speaker channels or output format, being handled in an arbitrary 3D coordinate system within the game engine.  It seems most modern sound cards can output 5.1/7.1 as discrete audio channels, translating the 3D sound within the game engine to 5.1/7.1 channels (although the meaning of ".1" in the LFE sense doesn't really apply here).  It is also common to see audio cards being able to decode dolby digital or DTS encoded multichannel and again output that as discrete analog signals.  Realtime encoding, however, is less common and you need a card that specifically lists that capability to get actual benefit from something like a mixamp.  The mixamp can only decode dolby digital 5.1 sound and downmix it using dolby headphone.  If you feed it a PCM stereo signal, it applies a simpler Prologic II algorithm to it in order to enhance the stereo image.  If your sound card has built-in dolby headphone (or other similar) processing, then there is no need for dolby digital encoding/decoding as the dolby headphone algorithm will work directly on the 3D sound in a game at the driver level, and give you the finished output.
   
  Dolby digital 5.1 encoded content is like putting a letter in the mail.  You put it in an envelope (the encoding) to send it to another device where it is decoded (receiver takes your letter out of the envelope).  To further this analogy, most integrated sound cards can only forward mail that is already in an envelope, but not put anything in an envelope and send it.  Some (an increasing number) of dedicated sound cards can actually put letters into envelopes and send them out.  For soundcards with DH capability, no envelope is needed, the same as if you gave a letter to someone in your house, you don't need to pack it in an envelope and send it to them, just give it to them direct.
   
  I guess the tl:dr version is that multichannel _passthrough_ is very common for audio hardware these days, but has limited/no application for games.  _Realtime encoding_, which is the one that's more important for games, is less commonly found and and if you want to take full advantage of DH surround sound for gaming, you either need to make sure your gaming device (console or PC) can output real-time encoded 5.1 content which you then give to a decoder like the mixamp, or you have to get audio hardware (PC only) that does DH processing right on the card itself.  FWIW none of the Creative cards have DH processing capability on-card AFAIK, they use their own CMSS3D system which some say is better for gaming others prefer DH.  If you actually want DH and use creative hardware, you need to get one of their cards that does DDLive! encoding, which you can then pass to a DH processor like a mixamp.
   
  Ruahrc


----------



## Eric_C

Wow. That's a really great explanation Ruahrc, thanks.
  Also: mind = blown.


----------



## Vonx

So, anybody gonna assist a word on what would be a worth while upgrade from a Tritton AX-720?


----------



## resakas

Hi, I have to choose GAMING headset and do not know what I'm choosing between these three:

 G35

 Sennhesier PC 360

 Sennheiser HD558

 For Sennheiser with a sound card like this would suffice? Asus Xonar SD / XD.

 Thank you!


----------



## resakas

Sorry delate this post, copy it :S


----------



## Eric_C

HD558, there is no 559. 
Do you need a mic when gaming?


----------



## resakas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> HD558, there is no 559.
> Do you need a mic when gaming?


 

 Ups, sorry I edit.
   
  Yes, I need mic.
   
  For Sennheiser with a sound card like this would suffice? Asus Xonar SD / XD.


----------



## Eric_C

HD558 has no mic. If those are your choices, just go with the PC360


----------



## resakas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> HD558 has no mic. If those are your choices, just go with the PC360


 

 Ok  But the G35 is bad?
   
  And I buy PC 360 can go 100% in sound card like this would suffice? Asus Xonar SD / XD.
   
  Thanks you.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Need a mic? Look into this ModMic. While I can't vouch directly for or against it, the idea is sound, and it lets you use it with any headphone you want instead of being limited to a few headphone models.
   
  At $145 for the HD 558 + $33 for the ModMic, though, that's not a whole lot of savings compared to a PC360 at $200. On the other hand, you can't move the PC360's mic to a better headphone later on if you want to climb the upgrade ladder. On the other other hand, the PC360's mic is naturally better integrated into the whole thing.
   
  Decisions, decisions...


----------



## resakas

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Need a mic? Look into this ModMic. While I can't vouch directly for or against it, the idea is sound, and it lets you use it with any headphone you want instead of being limited to a few headphone models.
> 
> At $145 for the HD 558 + $33 for the ModMic, though, that's not a whole lot of savings compared to a PC360 at $200. On the other hand, you can't move the PC360's mic to a better headphone later on if you want to climb the upgrade ladder. On the other other hand, the PC360's mic is naturally better integrated into the whole thing.
> 
> Decisions, decisions...


 
  Thanks for the info, but I have of course I'll buy the PC 360, plus the mic quality is finally want to know if the Sennheiser PC 360 headphones are good for a sound card Asus Xonar DX / XD.

 Only that, the headphones and I have chosen.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





resakas said:


> Thanks for the info, but I have of course I'll buy the PC 360, plus the mic quality is finally want to know if the Sennheiser PC 360 headphones are good for a sound card Asus Xonar DX / XD.
> 
> Only that, the headphones and I have chosen.


 


  is the pc360 really twice as good as the ad700's? because its twice the cost...im sure your not willing to pay double for just a microphone


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> At $145 for the HD 558 + $33 for the ModMic, though, that's not a whole lot of savings compared to a PC360 at* $200. *


 


  PC360 is $169 on amazon right now.


----------



## chicolom

Nice!  I've been waiting for years for someone to jump on headphones+mic wanting market.
   
  http://www.modmic.com/

 Glad to see someone did it finally.


----------



## resakas

Please, answer de question, the Sennheiser PC 360 headphones are good for a sound card Asus Xonar DX / XD?
   
  Need buy now! xD


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> PC360 is $169 on amazon right now.






 Wait, what? They must be really dropping in price as of late...a few months ago, they were still around the $250 mark!

   
  Quote: 





resakas said:


> Please, answer de question, the Sennheiser PC 360 headphones are good for a sound card Asus Xonar DX / XD?
> 
> Need buy now! xD


 

 I can't vouch for or against something I haven't used, but if they're $170 now and you really want a headset, what are you waiting for?


----------



## obazavil

PC 360 has very good reviews on gaming and AVS forums.
   
  I say go for it.
   
  I would get one PC360 for myself, but I'm out of cash for now


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





resakas said:


> Please, answer de question, the Sennheiser PC 360 headphones are good for a sound card Asus Xonar DX / XD?
> Need buy now! xD


 
  "XD"?
   
  The Asus Xonar DG, DS, DX, ST and STX will work just fine with the PC 360.


----------



## resakas

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> "XD"?
> 
> The Asus Xonar DG, DS, DX, ST and STX will work just fine with the PC 360.


 

 On this online shopping site puts it this way. 
   
  A country Spain, see:
  http://www.pccomponentes.com/asus_xonar_dx_xd_pci_express.html
   
  Ok, thanks you.


----------



## Ruahrc

Well here I go again 
   
  Had my PC360s from Amazon for a couple of days now (along with the ASUS Xonar U3), my impressions:
   
  Seems like a better set of cans than the PX5, for sure.  But then again with the phones being $170 and a mixamp another $130 on top of that, you'd hope they were.  What I'm getting at though is it seems like these are expensive, but justified cost whereas the PX5 had a high-end feature list but not necessarily high end performance.  The build quality is a lot more solid, and they are definitely lighter (but lighter by design, since there are no electronics/batteries in the headphones).  They are comfortable, but I do get some pain/discomfort after wearing them for too long.  I think it is that they squeeze my head too much.  I don't know if that will loosen up over time or not.  If it does not improve, I may actually have to return them.  I can't go for more than a couple of hours without getting a headache.
   
  As I suspected, the cord on this thing is ridiculously long.  If I end up keeping these phones I will have to cut them and solder in an inline connector so I can have a short run for mixamp use, and a long run for PC use.  I can find 4-pole 3.5mm male plugs on eBay, finding 4-pole 3.5mm female plugs seems more difficult.
   
  Didn't try the mic much, but one thing I don't like about it is it seems to be quite long, and stretches way in front of your mouth.  That's great for picking up sound but also it picks up my breathing too.  I will have to try more placement options but also the mic only "flexes" in one axis, so placement options are also limited.
   
  The volume control is very handy, especially using it on the PC since the Xonar U3 does not have a hardware volume controller (unlike the Xonar U1 which IIRC is the same hardware in a different package).  One thing I didn't expect was that the volume control has a limited range.  You cannot totally mute the sound using the on-headset volume control, only lower it.  So far it seems I have enough volume modulation that it's not a big issue, but would have been nice to have full mute-ability (mutability? ) using the on-headset volume control.
   
  The volume control also comes in handy when using the U3 on my mac, which was a pleasant surprise since the box does not state any kind of mac compatibility.  I plugged it in and saw that it was recognized as "USB Advanced Audio Device" in OSX.  There are no drivers so no access to fancy features like DH, but it works.  The headphone amp seems to be stuck in high gain mode though, since the sound is OUTRAGEOUSLY loud.  I have to lower the system volume to as low as it goes without muting the sound (even below 1 square on the volume scale, using the sound prefpane or Audio MIDI Setup), turn the on-headset volume controller all the way down, and _then _turn the volume slider in iTunes down _even more_ (to about half) before the volume is at my typical listening level.  Then I can use the on-headset volume to modulate the volume a little as needed.  But anyway it was kinda neat to see that the U3 worked on the mac, although ultimately I will be using the mixamp with the mac instead.  I tried to find some of the old Xonar U1 drivers (again, same hardware different packaging so I think it might work) that ASUS used to have for OSX but it appears they have disappeared from the internet.  However, it also seems like they won't be Lion compatible anyways so maybe it's a lost cause even if I could find the drivers.
   
  Anyhow regarding the PC360 sound, I can only do limited testing since my Astro mixamp is not here.  However, using the Xonar U3 on my PC allowed me to do some DH gaming, although my selection of PC games isn't super great for testing surround sound.  What I heard seemed pretty good, but will save judgement until I get my mixamp in the mail so I can make a more direct comparison to the PX5s using some 360 games like Bioshock 2.
   
  What testing I did though, seemed fine.  The best example I could come up with on my PC was the FPS game Sanctum.  In this game you build towers and mazes to slow down and stop waves of enemies from reaching the "core" and destroying it.  Anyhow I set up some lightning towers which have a passive humming/crackling sound and standing next to one I was able to pinpoint where it was in relation to me.  I closed my eyes, and jerked the mouse around to screw up my orientation, then I panned around to see if I could tell where the tower was in relation to my view.  I could always locate it, and recenter it so that I was looking at the tower again with my eyes closed.  I noticed that the weakest part of the soundstage seemed to be the very front.  It seemed like the sounds quickly transitioned from being front+right to front+left as I panned across.  I did not notice this as much if the sound was behind me, only in front.  I will see how it goes with the mixamp (although I do not expect very different results, since it's still using the same DH processing).
   
  Sound wise though, didn't you guys say these things were bass light?  I honestly don't see that at all.  Granted, my viewpoint is definitely biased somewhat since I own and like the sound signature of my Ety ER4Ps, but these things have more than enough bass for my tastes.  In fact on the PC, I have created a custom equalizer to bring the bass down a little and emphasize the mids/highs.  I can't imagine wanting a headphone with _more_ bass.  I'd definitely consider these to be "fun" phones borrowing from the original ratings on this thread.  I'll be curious to see how I like them on the console, where I won't have the option of creating an EQ to compensate for the headset's natural sound response.
   
  Anyway, they sound fine in the musical tests I ran.  Could not really hear any distortion even in difficult passages, and the distortion I did hear I think I am beginning to attribute to bad mastering on behalf of the audio engineers.  I hear the same distortion in the same places on several sets of headphones and playback systems, at that point I can only conclude that it is the source material.  In fact some of the distortion I heard with the PX5 was probably the same.
   
  Overall they seem like a solid set of headphones, however someone had to go and post that modmic link a few posts up , now I'm thinking I might like that route better.  I might be able to find a set of cans I can use more generally (both for music and gaming, making the expense more justifiable), with a sound signature I like better, and still have a good integrated mic solution using something like the modmic.


----------



## toyopl

I'm clueless as to what amp to buy to powerd Beyer 770's 80ohm.
  I'm using a laptop, and it's desktop replacement, so the laptop and the amp/headphones will never move from the desk.
   
  Anyone willing to help me out ?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





toyopl said:


> I'm clueless as to what amp to buy to powerd Beyer 770's 80ohm.
> I'm using a laptop, and it's desktop replacement, so the laptop and the amp/headphones will never move from the desk.
> 
> Anyone willing to help me out ?


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/search.php?search=dt770+80+amp
  There's a start.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





toyopl said:


> I'm clueless as to what amp to buy to powerd Beyer 770's 80ohm.
> I'm using a laptop, and it's desktop replacement, so the laptop and the amp/headphones will never move from the desk.
> Anyone willing to help me out ?


 

 99.9% of the headphone amplifiers will work great with 80-Ohm headphones.
  On eBay, there are lots of no name headphone amplifiers starting at around $50 (usually ships from China).
  tube headphone amplifiers will add "warm" and "soul" to the sound.


----------



## MustangVxD

Anyone using Westone 3 IEM's with an Astro mixamp 5.8 (wireless) for gaming, music and movie watching.  I'm hoping to get some impressions/advice before I spend $200 on the mixamp (rechargeable battery, ps3 chat cable). 
   
  If nothing else the mixamp looks like it would be a nice addition to my home theater if I want to just use headphones instead of shaking the entire house and I could wander around or do projects with the receiver in my pocket or a pouch.


----------



## 443330

Hey everyone, thoughts and opinions on this?
http://headfonics.com/2011/04/takstar-ts-671-what-can-i-get-for-53mm/
  Originally I was going to go with the Superlux HD668B's but this might change my mind.


----------



## matryx

Hey guys, I'm heading to the US real soon and I would like to pick a headphone for 70% movies and 30% games. My budget is around $200. I want something with a good amount of bass. I've been hearing good things about the DT770 Pro 80. How does that compare to the DT880 or the DT990? I know these two are out of my budget but I'm curious about them. I see that the HD598, PC360, and the DT770 Pro 80 are all around the same price. Which one would you guys suggest for my needs? Should I step up and just get the DT990 which from what I've read will do basically all I need? I'm willing to up my budget to $300 if so.


----------



## Eric_C

Do you need isolation? If you do, there's no considering the two Senns or the 990.


----------



## matryx

No I don't need isolation. I rather have open and comfortable headphones. I just want it to have some good bass for single player games and movies. If the HD598 is anything like the HD558 I think I wouldn't like them. Sure they were nice for gaming competitively but it had very little bass. 
   
  I also have the Sony XB500 and I find they have too much bass. Everything is muddled by the bass. I want the mid and highs from the HD558 I've tried combine with a little less bass than the XB500


----------



## Gabrilos

Hello Guys!
  First post here, but i have been seeing this forum for a long time!
  Can anyone help me? I need a headphone with good soundstage, 80% Gaming, 20% Music(+Metal, +Rock, and a little bit of trance and dubstep) for around 50$ dollars, max 70$ shipped.
  I know that this topic is not the right for requesting, but sorry!
  I was thinking of RX900(that http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-HA-RX900-Black-Full-Size-Stereo-Headphones-Earphone-6-3mm-Plug-Adapter-New-/130602364373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6881edd5 )
  I heard very good feedbacks and "they" say if mod it the quality can reach the HD555!
  can anyone help me choose? since i live in brazil, it takes around 30 days for a international shippment arrive here, so i dont want to get a "wrong" HP and regret!
  Thanks! And sorry if this is not the "place"


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





gabrilos said:


> Hello Guys!
> First post here, but i have been seeing this forum for a long time!
> Can anyone help me? I need a headphone with good soundstage, 80% Gaming, 20% Music(+Metal, +Rock, and a little bit of trance and dubstep) for around 50$ dollars, max 70$ shipped.
> I know that this topic is not the right for requesting, but sorry!
> ...


 

 I've tried the RX900, and I didn't like it for gaming, or its soundstage.  A used-modded HD555 would be better.


----------



## Gabrilos

what about the Samson sr850? I have seen a review and everyone says its a veeery good HP! I think i gonna get it! It's pretty cheap!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





gabrilos said:


> what about the Samson sr850? I have seen a review and everyone says its a veeery good HP! I think i gonna get it! It's pretty cheap!


 


  Looks like an AKG K240 clone, which I think there is a superlux thats very similar.  They might be ok.


----------



## IlSol

Hi everyone! First post! Yaaaaaaay! 
  I've been looking for a headphone for a lot of purposes in the last two months. Here's a list of what i want to do with them:
  -Play with a xbox 360 slim connected to my tv via component cable (33%). Note that i'm not a pro gamer and i'd much prefer a headset that can give you an immersive experience to one that can make you kick other people's asses in multiplayer (even though I play on xbox live a good 30% of the time so the "immersive factor" counts 75/100 and the competitive one 25/100)
  -Watch hd (when it's possibile  ) movies and tv series (33%) on a Macbook pro mid 2010
  -Listen to different kinds of music (in terms of percentages that would be 40% '70s rock 50% italian old pop music (here's a very good sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYSorczUfEE),                 10% classical music) through an unamped iPhone.
  -I don't need a microphone.
   
  I'd personally prefer a closed headphone but i am willing to consider an open one if you say that's worth the shot.
  My current budget is approximately 180 dollars (not counting the amp, which is the best one under 100 dollars??).
  Which product would you suggest me? 
  Thanks, Nicola.


----------



## Eric_C

Hey llSol, welcome to Head-Fi. It looks like you're looking for a headphone, not a headset, since the latter means a headphone with a mic (and you stated that you don't need a mic).
  You also mentioned you want to use this headphone with your iPhone--so, you will use it when you're outside the house?
   
  It would be helpful to know what headphones you have used before.


----------



## Evarin

Hello all,
   
  I am a new poster as of today! I signed up specifically to thank MLE and the rest of you guys for this wonderful in-depth discussion. I WAS going to get the PC 360s. I had them ordered and cancelled it...TWICE, as I am wracked with indecision as to what I want to use for my gaming/music headphones. I have a Wii/360/PS3/PC and game actively across all of them. I also enjoy listening to music, and can see myself making an extremely large upgrade in audio-quality from my current headphones (Motorola Blue-tooth which are pretty awesome, honestly). So, I am looking for a set of headphones that sound phenomenal for single-player gaming, yet still give good positioning, as that IS important in single-player games as well. I *DO* see myself using a chat feature sometimes in the future (Hello Mass Effect 3 Multi-player), but I place FAR more of an emphasis on sound quality, and would highly value the ability for these headphones to transfer over well to music listening. I'm willing to do a secondary mic setup if the sound quality on the higher-end pieces crushes that of the PC 360.
   
  I am currently considering the PC 360, HD650 or HD598's (Depending on which you guys think would sound better for single-player gaming), and the DT990 (or 880..whichever has best overall sound quality). I am of course open to other options as well.
   
  I've already purchased the Astro 5.8, that is on the way. I just need to know whether to settle for the PC 360 if they are truly superior for gaming music/FX, or to bite the bullet and purchase an AMP and step up to the HDs or AT brand.
   
  Finally, as for price, I cannot go higher than 400 dollars. I would rather spend 200-250, but I understand that may not be the best option if I need to purchase an amp.
   
  Any guidance you can give would be great. Just keep in mind that my primary focus is on top-quality single-player sound quality. I want Skyrim's music to sound flawless as I realize that giant is sneaking up behind me!


----------



## Evarin

Err, I should also mention that I already have a fairly high-end Yamaha receiver capable of 7.1 surround sound that powers my speakers. Would this work IN PLACE of an amp for home use?


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> Hi everyone! First post! Yaaaaaaay!
> I've been looking for a headphone for a lot of purposes in the last two months. Here's a list of what i want to do with them:
> -Play with a xbox 360 slim connected to my tv via component cable (33%). Note that i'm not a pro gamer and i'd much prefer a headset that can give you an immersive experience to one that can make you kick other people's asses in multiplayer (even though I play on xbox live a good 30% of the time so the "immersive factor" counts 75/100 and the competitive one 25/100)
> -Watch hd (when it's possibile  ) movies and tv series (33%) on a Macbook pro mid 2010
> ...


 


  I think the dt770 80 ohm would do the best of both worlds, but more significantly in the fun factor. They also have great positioning and sound stage for a closed can, but the bass drowns out footsteps for sound whoring ;/
   
  But since you probably have no intention to do that in your life, these would be the PERFECT phone.
   
  Also a denon ah-dx000 would fit the bill too, but less so for competition


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hey llSol, welcome to Head-Fi. It looks like you're looking for a headphone, not a headset, since the latter means a headphone with a mic (and you stated that you don't need a mic).
> You also mentioned you want to use this headphone with your iPhone--so, you will use it when you're outside the house?
> 
> It would be helpful to know what headphones you have used before.


 

 Thanks for the quick answer!
  Let's start with the easier answer: I'm no audiophile, i have only owned several pairs of Apple's standard ear buds and an in-ear Sennheiser cx 200 (which I wouldn't mind if the cable wasn't SO microphonic). I am willing to enter this "world" partly out of curiosity, partly in order to enhance my playing and film experiences and partly because i really love music.
  The harder answer: I have really been questioning myself in the last two months on whether I wanted portable headphones or not. The fact is I'm an engineering student and I have to sit on a train for 1 hour and a half five days a week just to follow my lessons. While I'm on the train I generally listen to music and watch tv series on my iphone and I do all this wearing (obviously) headphones. I also wear headphones in study rooms to isolate myself better from the rest of the class. So the answer is yes, I need a pair of portable headphones. The decision on which I am really undecided is whether I want a SINGLE pair of headphones (which would have to do everything well enough) or two pairs (a full-sized for home usage and 40 dollars IEMs for portable usage). It's obvious that one would clearly opt for the second one but I'm not completely convinced yet because I generally listen to music while I'm on the train and rarely when I'm at home (but, again, this habit may well change in the future, since i will have a good pair of headphones at home, which, by the way, would no longer need to be closed since i have my own room to play and listen to music). Which solution would you opt for if you were me?
   


  Quote: 





vonx said:


> I think the dt770 80 ohm would do the best of both worlds, but more significantly in the fun factor. They also have great positioning and sound stage for a closed can, but the bass drowns out footsteps for sound whoring ;/
> 
> But since you probably have no intention to do that in your life, these would be the PERFECT phone.
> 
> Also a denon ah-dx000 would fit the bill too, but less so for competition


 

  
  I had already checked the dt 770 80 ohm and I must admit I got pretty intrigued. Everyone says that they're really present in the low frequencies, would they suit my music tastes (also considering the sample of Italian music i gave you)? How do they perform with films? Are they any good for competitive gaming??


----------



## matryx

I was looking around amazon.com and I found the Ultrasone PRO 900 for $390 dropping from $475
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001F00F0E/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
   
  I'm not sure how they compare to others but I hear the bass is amazing on these.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Hello all,
> I am a new poster as of today! I signed up specifically to thank MLE and the rest of you guys for this wonderful in-depth discussion. I WAS going to get the PC 360s. I had them ordered and cancelled it...TWICE, as I am wracked with indecision as to what I want to use for my gaming/music headphones. I have a Wii/360/PS3/PC and game actively across all of them. I also enjoy listening to music, and can see myself making an extremely large upgrade in audio-quality from my current headphones (Motorola Blue-tooth which are pretty awesome, honestly). So, I am looking for a set of headphones that sound phenomenal for single-player gaming, yet still give good positioning, as that IS important in single-player games as well. I *DO* see myself using a chat feature sometimes in the future (Hello Mass Effect 3 Multi-player), but I place FAR more of an emphasis on sound quality, and would highly value the ability for these headphones to transfer over well to music listening. I'm willing to do a secondary mic setup if the sound quality on the higher-end pieces crushes that of the PC 360.
> I am currently considering the PC 360, HD650 or HD598's (Depending on which you guys think would sound better for single-player gaming), and the DT990 (or 880..whichever has best overall sound quality). I am of course open to other options as well.
> I've already purchased the Astro 5.8, that is on the way. I just need to know whether to settle for the PC 360 if they are truly superior for gaming music/FX, or to bite the bullet and purchase an AMP and step up to the HDs or AT brand.
> ...


 
  The Sennheiser PC360 and HD-598 are only 50-Ohm, so they easily work with the Astro Mix-Amp.
  Beyerdynamic DT-990 and 880 models might need more power then what the Astro Mix-Amp has???
  The HD-598s do have better sound then the PC360, but the PC360 is a better value with the built in mic.


----------



## Evarin

I'm continuing to try to make my way through this thread (At page 69 at the moment) and I still find myself unable to come to a decision for which headphones to get. Basically, I like what I hear about the PC 360s. I want something that is at least AS GOOD as them at gaming, but better in other areas, and am willing to spend to get it. What would be the most helpful for me is to hear your guy's opinions as to what tiers are above the PC 360.
   
  Would DT990's at 32 Ohms be a step higher? How about D2000, or the Pro 900s? As I said, my cap is 400, I just want to make sure if I am spending that much, I would get something much better than the PC 360's.
   
  Edited to add ...... "
  Quote: 





> The Sennheiser PC360 and HD-598 are only 50-Ohm, so they easily work with the Astro Mix-Amp.
> Beyerdynamic DT-990 and 880 models might need more power then what the Astro Mix-Amp has???
> The HD-598s do have better sound then the PC360, but the PC360 is a better value with the built in mic."


 
   
   
  Thanks for the reply. Value at this point is not as important to me as sound quality. I'm truly out for the best sound I can get my hands on short of 400 bucks. If that means buying an amp, so be it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Err, I should also mention that I already have a fairly high-end Yamaha receiver capable of 7.1 surround sound that powers my speakers. Would this work IN PLACE of an amp for home use?


 
  Which model Yamaha?
  Yamahas are one of the few stereo receivers that offer 5.1 surround sound (Silent Cinema) for headphones.
  Use the optical input on the Yamaha from the PS3s optical output.
  My Onkyo 706B ($500) stereo receiver works just fine with my DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm headphones, but only with stereo 2.0 sound


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Which model Yamaha?
> Yamahas are one of the few stereo receivers that offer 5.1 surround sound (Silent Cinema) for headphones.
> Use the optical input on the Yamaha from the PS3s optical output.
> My Onkyo 706B ($500) stereo receiver works just fine with my DT-770 Pro 250-Ohm headphones, but only with stereo 2.0 sound


 


  RX-V663 model, if that means anything to you. If I could use that solely to power the headphones I get, but use the Mixamp 5.8 for the DH that would be perfect. Something tells me, though, that it wouldn't work too great as the Yamaha would put its own spin on the sound, and then pass it to the mixamp.
   
  At the moment, I am leaning towards the DT990 Pro 32 Ohm headphones. I am new to the audiophile thing, but I am experienced in surround sound audio. I simply can't have my setup as loud as I want these days, so I am looking to really dig into some of the best (sub $500) that headphones have to offer. I think I will try them WITHOUT an amp at first, then wait a few paychecks to really decide if I need them at a higher volume or better sound quality. I *DO* plan on using these with my I-phone, like at the library when studying, so I have a feeling a portable amp will be required to get the most out of them.
   
  I'd love to hear if anyone could come up with suggestions that would beat the DT990 pros for all around usage, if not, I may just run with those. Honestly, I just wish I could get my hands on *ANY* of these damned headphones, but there is literally nowhere around here that offers these brands. Not Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc. They don't even carry the PC 360's. Where do you guys go to hear these high-end headphones? Conventions?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> RX-V663 model, if that means anything to you. If I could use that solely to power the headphones I get, but use the Mixamp 5.8 for the DH that would be perfect. Something tells me, though, that it wouldn't work too great as the Yamaha would put its own spin on the sound, and then pass it to the mixamp.
> 
> At the moment, I am leaning towards the DT990 Pro 32 Ohm headphones. I am new to the audiophile thing, but I am experienced in surround sound audio. I simply can't have my setup as loud as I want these days, so I am looking to really dig into some of the best (sub $500) that headphones have to offer. I think I will try them WITHOUT an amp at first, then wait a few paychecks to really decide if I need them at a higher volume or better sound quality. I *DO* plan on using these with my I-phone, like at the library when studying, so I have a feeling a portable amp will be required to get the most out of them.
> 
> I'd love to hear if anyone could come up with suggestions that would beat the DT990 pros for all around usage, if not, I may just run with those. Honestly, I just wish I could get my hands on *ANY* of these damned headphones, but there is literally nowhere around here that offers these brands. Not Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc. They don't even carry the PC 360's. Where do you guys go to hear these high-end headphones? Conventions?


 

 You would not daisy chain the Yamaha and the Astro Mix-Amp, for any reason, just use one or the other.
  I believe the Yamaha Silent Cinema 5.1 would function/act the same as Dolby Headphone 5.1.
  I would say to not buy any Beyerdynamic in 32-Ohm, not worth it.
  Get the 250-Ohm version and get a small portable headphone amplifier like the Fiio E6.


----------



## Evarin

As stupid as it sounds, I am just going to go with the PC 360's. I've read up to page .... 107 and I just can't make up my mind on the higher-end headphones. I am now regretting buying the Mixamp 5.8 due to possibility of hissing. I imagine this will drive me up the wall more than anything else. I should have bought a wired amp, but I didn't know enough at the time to be wary of it. I need to take a break from reading all this stuff. Denon2000, DT770-990's, A900's, HD 595's, E9's or Lyr amps...It is enough to drive a noob like myself crazy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> As stupid as it sounds, I am just going to go with the PC 360's. I've read up to page .... 107 and I just can't make up my mind on the higher-end headphones. I am now regretting buying the Mixamp 5.8 due to possibility of hissing. I imagine this will drive me up the wall more than anything else. I should have bought a wired amp, but I didn't know enough at the time to be wary of it. I need to take a break from reading all this stuff. Denon2000, DT770-990's, A900's, HD 595's, E9's or Lyr amps...It is enough to drive a noob like myself crazy.


 

 As they like saying on Head-Fi, Sorry About The Wallet.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evarin said:


> As stupid as it sounds, I am just going to go with the PC 360's. I've read up to page .... 107 and I just can't make up my mind on the higher-end headphones. I am now regretting buying the Mixamp 5.8 due to possibility of hissing. I imagine this will drive me up the wall more than anything else. I should have bought a wired amp, but I didn't know enough at the time to be wary of it. I need to take a break from reading all this stuff. Denon2000, DT770-990's, A900's, HD 595's, E9's or Lyr amps...It is enough to drive a noob like myself crazy.


 


  Don't worry.  You chose well.  The PC360s are _excellent.  _They beat many of the "higher-end headphones".  Even compared to my AKG Q701s they hold their own.  And the Mixamp 5.8 hissing complaints are ridiculous.  You won't be able to hear it with the PC360s at all.  I can't even hear hissing with the DSS + PC360s and its noticeably noisier than the mixamp 5.8.


----------



## NumLock

Quote:


evarin said:


> RX-V663 model, if that means anything to you. If I could use that solely to power the headphones I get, but use the Mixamp 5.8 for the DH that would be perfect. Something tells me, though, that it wouldn't work too great as the Yamaha would put its own spin on the sound, and then pass it to the mixamp.
> 
> At the moment, I am leaning towards the DT990 Pro 32 Ohm headphones. I am new to the audiophile thing, but I am experienced in surround sound audio. I simply can't have my setup as loud as I want these days, so I am looking to really dig into some of the best (sub $500) that headphones have to offer. I think I will try them WITHOUT an amp at first, then wait a few paychecks to really decide if I need them at a higher volume or better sound quality. I *DO* plan on using these with my I-phone, like at the library when studying, so I have a feeling a portable amp will be required to get the most out of them.
> 
> I'd love to hear if anyone could come up with suggestions that would beat the DT990 pros for all around usage, if not, I may just run with those. Honestly, I just wish I could get my hands on *ANY* of these damned headphones, but there is literally nowhere around here that offers these brands. Not Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc. They don't even carry the PC 360's. Where do you guys go to hear these high-end headphones? Conventions?


 


 I have the RX-V663 and Silent Cinema/surround sound sound headphones works pretty good.
   
  I also have the DT990 and DT880 and prefer the DT880 for both gaming and movies.


----------



## matryx

Just wondering why you would use optical instead of HDMI? I have a Yamaha RX-V665 with Silent Cinema. My PS3 downstairs is connected with HDMI but the PS3 in my room where I do most of my competitive gaming is connected with optical.


----------



## RapidPulse

Quote: 





evarin said:


> I am now regretting buying the Mixamp 5.8 due to possibility of hissing. I imagine this will drive me up the wall more than anything else. I should have bought a wired amp, but I didn't know enough at the time to be wary of it. I need to take a break from reading all this stuff.


 

  
  Take a deep breath 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  Reading all of this stuff really can drive you crazy.  
   
  Like chicolom said, I doubt you will notice any hissing with the Mixamp 5.8. I Love mine...no regrets at all.


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> Thanks for the quick answer!
> Let's start with the easier answer: I'm no audiophile, i have only owned several pairs of Apple's standard ear buds and an in-ear Sennheiser cx 200 (which I wouldn't mind if the cable wasn't SO microphonic). I am willing to enter this "world" partly out of curiosity, partly in order to enhance my playing and film experiences and partly because i really love music.
> The harder answer: I have really been questioning myself in the last two months on whether I wanted portable headphones or not. The fact is I'm an engineering student and I have to sit on a train for 1 hour and a half five days a week just to follow my lessons. While I'm on the train I generally listen to music and watch tv series on my iphone and I do all this wearing (obviously) headphones. I also wear headphones in study rooms to isolate myself better from the rest of the class. So the answer is yes, I need a pair of portable headphones. The decision on which I am really undecided is whether I want a SINGLE pair of headphones (which would have to do everything well enough) or two pairs (a full-sized for home usage and 40 dollars IEMs for portable usage). It's obvious that one would clearly opt for the second one but I'm not completely convinced yet because I generally listen to music while I'm on the train and rarely when I'm at home (but, again, this habit may well change in the future, since i will have a good pair of headphones at home, which, by the way, would no longer need to be closed since i have my own room to play and listen to music). Which solution would you opt for if you were me?
> 
> ...


 


  Bump! =)


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> Bump! =)


 


  Hey again, sorry I didn't see your post on the last page and so didn't respond to any of your points there.
   
  1. Microphonics on in-ears: Usually unavoidable, unless you get a pair of in-ears where the cable wraps around the ear (instead of going straight down). Examples: Shure, Westone.
   
  2. 1 headphone or 2 headphones? In your case, I think 2 pairs is better. I have not heard of a headphone that is both good for portable use, and good for gaming/movies.
  **Note: DT 770 is not ideal for portable. Yes it is closed, but it is very big.
   
  3. DT 770 for gaming (your question to Vonx): not good for competitive gaming, according to Vonx. Competitive gaming = less bass, but DT 770 = more bass.
   
  So what headphone for gaming? The cheapest and most often recommended headphone are:
  - Audio Technica ATH-AD700 (about US$100)
  - Koss KSC-75 (about US$15)


----------



## siatucka

I have an asus xonar dx and audio technica ad700, along with koss ksc75 (both which I purchased after a lot of reading on these forums). I've always been a bit unsatisfied with the ad700 due to the soundstage seeming inaccurate. The enemies in counter-strike always seemed to be closer-sounding than they actually were, and it made it very hard to judge location of a moving enemy. Another issue is the lack of bass these provide. I always thought I would upgrade to beyerdynamic dt880 if I felt I needed better headphones, but I'm doubting they are worth the money (to me) due to needing an amp as well, along with the less than stellar rating on here for competitive gaming. I've been looking for a new set for the last few days and came across the following:
  razer orca
  superlux HD668B
  samson sr850
   
  People have been reporting the superlux and samson as being better than the ad700, and there doesn't seem to be any mention of the orca in this thread. The other threads mentioning orca seem to be razer generalized and not orca specific. I was also considering the HARX line but I don't want anything heavier than the ad700 (280 grams)
   
  The reason I mention these is due to their budget price and (I think) lack of required amplifier, since I really don't want to spend what the dt880 setup would cost. The driving force of me looking for new headphones is because I'm looking for headphones that will sound good on a korg sp-250 digital piano, so if these headphones aren't an upgrade on the ad700 I will just be looking for a budget set for the piano. The AD700 do a great job and the ksc75 are not comfortable. I'm open to other suggestions in the $50 price range as well.


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hey again, sorry I didn't see your post on the last page and so didn't respond to any of your points there.
> 
> 1. Microphonics on in-ears: Usually unavoidable, unless you get a pair of in-ears where the cable wraps around the ear (instead of going straight down). Examples: Shure, Westone.
> 
> ...


 


   
  So, a not portable one good for gaming+Movies+the music genres I mentioned? =)
  thanks again! =)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





siatucka said:


> I have an asus xonar dx and audio technica ad700, along with koss ksc75 (both which I purchased after a lot of reading on these forums). I've always been a bit unsatisfied with the ad700 due to the soundstage seeming inaccurate. The enemies in counter-strike always seemed to be closer-sounding than they actually were, and it made it very hard to judge location of a moving enemy. Another issue is the lack of bass these provide. I always thought I would upgrade to beyerdynamic dt880 if I felt I needed better headphones, but I'm doubting they are worth the money (to me) due to needing an amp as well, along with the less than stellar rating on here for competitive gaming. I've been looking for a new set for the last few days and came across the following:
> razer orca
> superlux HD668B
> samson sr850
> ...


 
  I've had my new Samson SR850 for a week, nice sound. I'm not a current gamer.


----------



## Eric_C

llSol, the 2 I mentioned are probably good for gaming and movies. I don't know what would be good for the music you enjoy.


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> llSol, the 2 I mentioned are probably good for gaming and movies. I don't know what would be good for the music you enjoy.


 


  I have been reading quite a lot of good stuff regarding the AD700 exception made for the bass. They're the first headphones analyzed in the thread and Mad Lust says:
   
  " They are really bass light. That is their biggest issue. Bass is so light, it sounds like a tin can attempting to sound like a subwoofer. Just no bass, lol. So for immersive, non-competitive gaming, these aren't going to impress. The pads are super comfortable, but the cans are way too loose for some people, and your ears may touch the drivers, which a shock prone person like me couldn't handle anymore."
   
  And he rates 6/10 in terms of fun. As i stated before my main interest is a great and immersive experience (and probably a 25% competitive factor). What would you suggest me?


----------



## Evarin

Does anyone think that using an amp like the E9 would help the mixamp 5.8 and the pc 360's? I figure I will eventually need one, but I don't want to bother in the short term if it won't help, or worse, would negatively effect the sound.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> I have been reading quite a lot of good stuff regarding the AD700 exception made for the bass. They're the first headphones analyzed in the thread and Mad Lust says:
> 
> " They are really bass light. That is their biggest issue. Bass is so light, it sounds like a tin can attempting to sound like a subwoofer. Just no bass, lol. So for immersive, non-competitive gaming, these aren't going to impress. The pads are super comfortable, but the cans are way too loose for some people, and your ears may touch the drivers, which a shock prone person like me couldn't handle anymore."
> 
> And he rates 6/10 in terms of fun. As i stated before my main interest is a great and immersive experience (and probably a 25% competitive factor). What would you suggest me?


 

 Just about any beyer (except the dt880) and any denon fits your bill. The fun category is the easiest of all, its having the best of competitive and fun worlds combined thats difficult to get.


----------



## RapidPulse

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Does anyone think that using an amp like the E9 would help the mixamp 5.8 and the pc 360's? I figure I will eventually need one, but I don't want to bother in the short term if it won't help, or worse, would negatively effect the sound.


 

 I personally don't think you will need an amp for the pc 360's.  I use the MixAmp 5.8 with the Beyer DT990 (250ohm) and have no trouble getting them to uncomfortable volume levels without distortion (not that I do that!).  Sound quality is great.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Does anyone think that using an amp like the E9 would help the mixamp 5.8 and the pc 360's? I figure I will eventually need one, but I don't want to bother in the short term if it won't help, or worse, would negatively effect the sound.


 
  The Sennheiser PC360 is only 50-Ohms, easy to drive.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Does anyone think that using an amp like the E9 would help the mixamp 5.8 and the pc 360's? I figure I will eventually need one, but I don't want to bother in the short term if it won't help, or worse, would negatively effect the sound.


 


  Like people said, the PC360s don't need it. 
   
  Double amping in general is bad I believe.  I'm reluctant to even go from mixamp -> E9 -> Q701 as I don't think they need it...


----------



## hitmanx

Great review, thanks!


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Just about any beyer (except the dt880) and any denon fits your bill. The fun category is the easiest of all, its having the best of competitive and fun worlds combined thats difficult to get.


 


  What would the final answer be? Which headphone+amp would you buy if you were me?
  As i habe previously stated, the main factor, to me, is to have a great and immersive experience and, just in a second time, a competitive one (the ideal Marks would then be 9fun/7comp or something like that.. Do you think it's possible with headphones+amp in my price range?? (also, do you think that with an amp that features bass boost, like mixamp, the overall sound of the Ad700s would benefit from that, thus improving the "fun" factor?)
  thanks again!


----------



## Evarin

Ok, guys. I have another question for you. I have a fairly high end Soundblaster Soundcard. I'm not sure of which model it is, but it is a Fatality X-FI Pro blah blah. It was top of the line as of a year or two ago. I also have a fairly high end Yamaha receiver capable of 7.1 surround sound, I believe I listed the model number elsewhere. Finally, I have the Mixamp 5.8.
   
  Which should I use to power my PC 360's for Computer gaming? Should I hook the headphones directly up to the Soundcard? Should I hook the headphones up to my receiver, with only an HDMI running from my soundcard to my Yamaha, or should I work the Mixamp into the picture? I'm a bit lost, as it isn't quite so simple as it will be with console gaming.


----------



## Eric_C

llSol: I think we've given as many recommendations as we can give, it's time for you to make a choice based on the information we've made available.
   
  Evarin: start with the end in mind--in this case, using stereo headphones to simulate surround sound. The MixAmp can obviously do that, it's what the product was designed for, but it needs your sound card to have the right inputs. As was pointed out a page or 2 ago, you need to ensure that your sound card can output a 5.1/7.1 signal, and the MixAmp in particular requires a digital/optical input.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> What would the final answer be? Which headphone+amp would you buy if you were me?
> As i habe previously stated, the main factor, to me, is to have a great and immersive experience and, just in a second time, a competitive one (the ideal Marks would then be 9fun/7comp or something like that.. Do you think it's possible with headphones+amp in my price range?? (also, do you think that with an amp that features bass boost, like mixamp, the overall sound of the Ad700s would benefit from that, thus improving the "fun" factor?)
> thanks again!


 

 My ATH-AD700s when hooked up to my Essence STX sound a little "fuuny" in the bass.
  It's trying harder to make the bass it can not do.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Ok, guys. I have another question for you. I have a fairly high end Soundblaster Soundcard. I'm not sure of which model it is, but it is a Fatality X-FI Pro blah blah. It was top of the line as of a year or two ago. I also have a fairly high end Yamaha receiver capable of 7.1 surround sound, I believe I listed the model number elsewhere. Finally, I have the Mixamp 5.8.
> Which should I use to power my PC 360's for Computer gaming? Should I hook the headphones directly up to the Soundcard? Should I hook the headphones up to my receiver, with only an HDMI running from my soundcard to my Yamaha, or should I work the Mixamp into the picture? I'm a bit lost, as it isn't quite so simple as it will be with console gaming.


 

 I think the Yamaha and the Astro Mix-Amp are about equal.
  The Mix-Amp can do Dolby headphone and Yamaha has Silent Cinema, which functions like Dolby Headphone.
  The Sound Blaster has CMSS-3D for headphones.
  The Yamaha would be best for Blu-ray movies.
  For FPS, the Sound Blasters CMSS-3D might have a slight edge for location.
  Some games sound better/fuller with Dolby over CMSS-3D.
  I do not know if games have audio designed specifically to work with Yamaha's Silent Cinema.
  Now Yamaha's Silent Cinema maybe was designed by really smart and experienced audio engineers.
  Personally, I would use the Yamaha, It should have the best sound quality and I do not play FPS.


----------



## Evarin

Thanks again, guys. I had the package shipped to the wrong damn house, so now I need to wait another 2-5 days before I get my hands on them. Fun times.


----------



## holylucifer

Imo i find the fostex t50rp better for gaming then the dt880.
   
  Your ability to judge where the sounds are comeing from are better, due to dynamic drivers and the cup and such, what fostex have done is made it sound better with virtual sound.
   
  You guys should try the t50rp for gaming, soundstage is big enough along with the odd way it sounds i find dolby headphone makes these t50rp well put it bluntly with me i prefer dolby headphone off.
   
  I find the sound and the sound waves to be narrower on the dt880 compared to t50rp.
   
  This headphone makes you feel as if you were there plus the clarity is alot and without careful listening it is the t50rp as it always gets your attention.
   
  I have owned the pc 350 and well i prefer the t50rp over that.


----------



## Ruahrc

Quote: 





evarin said:


> As stupid as it sounds, I am just going to go with the PC 360's. I've read up to page .... 107 and I just can't make up my mind on the higher-end headphones. I am now regretting buying the Mixamp 5.8 due to possibility of hissing. I imagine this will drive me up the wall more than anything else. I should have bought a wired amp, but I didn't know enough at the time to be wary of it. I need to take a break from reading all this stuff. Denon2000, DT770-990's, A900's, HD 595's, E9's or Lyr amps...It is enough to drive a noob like myself crazy.


 

  
  After a couple of weeks with my Astro Mixamp 5.8 and PC360, I can attest to the fact that I DO hear _some_ hiss.  However, I can only hear it when there is no sound playing and I am in a quiet environment.  Addtionally, you can easily defeat the hiss by turning the volume control on the headset down a little, and then boosting the volume on the mixamp 5.8 rx a little to compensate.  Doing so effectively decreases the noise floor, making the hiss go away completely (for me and my hearing at least).
   
  Overall I'm pretty happy with this combo.  I was a little surprised (and very impressed) by the fit and finish of the mixamp unit.  The base has a nice weighty feel, and the RX unit is solid.  The knobs have a very nice feel when adjusting volume or audio mix.  My only two real complaints about my setup are:
   
  1) microphone position is very far forward such that it can catch your breath (however I have fine tuned it to a point where this does not seem as severe)
  2) excessive cable length running from the PC360 to the mixamp 5.8 rx.  Moving/walking around with the mixamp 5.8 is actually a mild tripping hazard, because if I'm not careful I could easily see myself tripping over the excess cable.  It also somewhat defeats the wireless aspect of the 5.8 if I have to drag along a giant coil of headphone cable everywhere I walk.  I intend to fix this by cutting the PC360 headphone cable and soldering in an inline 4-pole TRRS jack on the headphones.  Then have 2 connector cables- one short one for use with the mixamp (also will negate the need for the Y-splitter), and one long one for use on the PC.  Anyone know a good source for these parts (M+F TRRS connectors, 4-conductor cable)?
   
  Lastly, since I also have surround sound speakers, I utilize the optical pass-through function of the mixamp base, running another optical cable from the mixamp to my receiver.  It's slightly inconvenient in that the mixamp has to be on in order for the passthrough to function.  So the mixamp is basically on all the time whenever I want to hear audio of any sort.  Not a big deal but I had read somewhere that the optical passthrough was supposed to work even if the power was off.  Nevertheless, having it work like it does (as a signal booster/repeater, and not just a passive passthrough) is probably for the better in my case, since I also utilize a toslink switch to have multiple devices deliver audio to the mixamp's optical input.  I had to do a fair bit of cable juggling just to get a reliable optical signal through the switch and into the mixamp.  (As an aside, it would seem not all optical cables are built the same, and a longer cable does not necessarily equate to a weaker signal.  In my setup I could not get a reliable signal out of a 6-ft optical cable, but when I replaced it with a 12-ft I had lying around, it worked fine.  I think the "quality" of an optical cable will really come down to the connector ends.)  If the mixamp's passthrough was passive, there would be no way my receiver would actually receive the passed-along signal- it would be far too weak by that point.  As it is now, it gets a strong bright optical signal from the mixamp.


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





> Lastly, since I also have surround sound speakers, I utilize the optical pass-through function of the mixamp base, running another optical cable from the mixamp to my receiver.  It's slightly inconvenient in that the mixamp has to be on in order for the passthrough to function.  So the mixamp is basically on all the time whenever I want to hear audio of any sort.  Not a big deal but I had read somewhere that the optical passthrough was supposed to work even if the power was off.  Nevertheless, having it work like it does (as a signal booster/repeater, and not just a passive passthrough) is probably for the better in my case, since I also utilize a toslink switch to have multiple devices deliver audio to the mixamp's optical input.  I had to do a fair bit of cable juggling just to get a reliable optical signal through the switch and into the mixamp.  (As an aside, it would seem not all optical cables are built the same, and a longer cable does not necessarily equate to a weaker signal.  In my setup I could not get a reliable signal out of a 6-ft optical cable, but when I replaced it with a 12-ft I had lying around, it worked fine.  I think the "quality" of an optical cable will really come down to the connector ends.)  If the mixamp's passthrough was passive, there would be no way my receiver would actually receive the passed-along signal- it would be far too weak by that point.  As it is now, it gets a strong bright optical signal from the mixamp.


 
   
  This is a bit over my head, but I may have to re-read it a bit and see if I will need to do something similar. I currently have sound/video running from my cable box to my receiver via a HDMI cable, then from my receiver to my TV via another HDMI. The TV is of course muted, but you do so for the picture. I then have a TURK (HDMI splitter) which runs from all of my systems (PS3, 360, PC) to my receiver so that it automatically switches over to what is on and routes it to the TV/Receiver. The Wii I wasn't using for the longest, but I will likely just run a digital optical cord to directly to the mix-amp, and Component video to the TV and solely use the headphones.
   
  Wires, wires everywhere, but not a drop to drink. Or something.
   
  PS
   
  It seems I wont be getting my Sennheisers until next Tuesday. So much for a (last) Thursday rush delivery! With tomorrow being Turkey day, and UPS having Friday - Sunday off, rush shipping amounts to the package going out Monday and getting here Tuesday. Awesome!


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





holylucifer said:


> Imo i find the fostex t50rp better for gaming then the dt880.
> 
> Your ability to judge where the sounds are comeing from are better, due to dynamic drivers and the cup and such, what fostex have done is made it sound better with virtual sound.
> 
> ...


 


  That would be something if these headphones do beat out the DT880, as they are significantly cheaper. I don't think MLE posts in this thread anymore, but i'd be interested to see how they stack up to all the other ones he has used. Still, one more name to consider for my next purchase. Thanks for the info, Holylucifer.


----------



## Rebel975

I wish the wired Mixamp had an optical passthrough. It would open up a world of possibilities for me in regards to using a dedicated DAC with a Xbox while maintaining convenient chat functionality. Oh well.


----------



## toyopl

Any thoughts on upcoming AKG K 550 ?
  http://uk.akg.com/akg-k550-uk.html


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





toyopl said:


> Any thoughts on upcoming AKG K 550 ?
> http://uk.akg.com/akg-k550-uk.html


 

  
  Hmm...
   
  "

 Real Image Engineering for accurate definition and impression of width, distance and depth
 *Closed-back *design for a fully personal listening experience  "
   
  Sort of contradictory...


----------



## carefullistener

Guys, see my thread here about my experiences looking for the best audiophile surround sound setup...most of you reading this thread will be in the same boat as me, so read here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/582062/need-serious-advice-setup-needed-for-bf3-gaming-music-listening#post_7918472
  
  
 continuing on...
  
 okay so i shall look for a new sound card capable of powering a good number of ohms...
[size=1.4em] HT | OMEGA CLARO Plus+ 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Sound Card[/size]  vs
[size=1.4em] ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express x1 Interface 124 dB SNR / Headphone AMP Card[/size]   
 Which one is better?
  
 Speaking of which...the more ohms the louder the headphone can perform correct? or is there more to it than just loudness of the speakers?
  
  
  
 *Here are my options for headphone:*
  
[size=1.7em] Denon AHD2000 High Performance Over-Ear Headphones *$349.95*[/size]  Audio Technica ATH-*AD900* Audiophile Open-Air Dynamic Headphones *$200* [size=1.7em] AKG K702 Headphones *$251.00*[/size] [size=1.7em] AudioTechnica ATH-A700 Closed-back Dynamic Headphones *$135.95*[/size]  Fischer Audio FA-011 *$118.00* [size=1.7em] Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO Open Studio Headphones 250 Ohms *$169.99*[/size]   
[size=1.7em] Audio Technica ATH-AD700 Open-air Dynamic Audiophile Headphones *$103.99*[/size]   
  
[size=1.7em] Audio Technica ATH-A700 Headphones *$120.37*[/size]    [size=1.7em] Audio Technica ATH-AD700 Open-air Dynamic Audiophile Headphones *$103.99*[/size]   
[size=1.7em] AKG K702 Headphones *$251.00*[/size]   
 i see more that i like...will have to add soon...
  
 But which of these regardless of price will be the best option for me considering i will get the 200 dollarish sound card with amp built in....capable of 600 ohms???


----------



## Eric_C

More ohms DOES NOT equal to more loudness/volume. That is absolutely wrong. 
Ohms is a measurement of impedance, which in general is *somewhat* inversely related to volume; i.e. high impedance headphones need the volume cranked higher. But even that is a gross generalisation.


----------



## carefullistener

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> More ohms DOES NOT equal to more loudness/volume. That is absolutely wrong.
> Ohms is a measurement of impedance, which in general is *somewhat* inversely related to volume; i.e. high impedance headphones need the volume cranked higher. But even that is a gross generalisation.


 

 so what does it mean then? more ohms = ?????


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





carefullistener said:


> so what does it mean then? more ohms = ?????


 

 The lower the Ohms the louder it get at a set volume.
  The higher the Ohms, the less loud it gets at that same set volume.
   
  So the less Ohms, the less you need to turn up the volume knob to get it louder.
  Per Eric C, I'm only referring to headphones.


----------



## Eric_C

If you want the full answer, it's going to be long, and it's too complex for me to understand well enough to explain to you. I'm afraid you'll have to read up elsewhere to get that.
   
  Also note that Purple Angel's explanation is usually correct for headphones only. There are high end speakers with very low impedance (e.g. <10 ohms) that need very powerful amps.
   
  I think all you really want to know is which headphones and which sound card to get, right? So how about just getting the same setup as the more knowledgeable PC gamers around here, e.g. Mad Lust Envy's setup?


----------



## Vonx

Well, I'd like to add one headphone that does NOT make the wanted list for headphones good with dolby surround sound decoders, and thats the Fischer Audio FA-011. 
   
  These have an absolutely immense soundstage, which is what led me to thinking they might be good for gaming, but to my surprise, that was NOT the case. 
   
  It was like they were a different headphone with dolby digital....
   
  in case anyones wondering, im using the tritton ax720 decoder box, which is rumored to have more power than the astro mixamp
   
  however, in stereo they are SO amazing, they may as well be surround sound in stereo because the soundstage is phenominal with these, the bass is strong and punchy, and the highs are airy without being sibilant!
   
  Perfect gaming headphone = no
  Perfect audiophile headphone = yes


----------



## Evarin

I would go with the Denon 2k's.


----------



## Rebel975

The thing to keep in mind with impedance is the sensitivity of the headphones. Example: HE-6. Low ohms, but also low impedance. It needs a lot of juice.


----------



## Eric_C

rebel975 said:


> The thing to keep in mind with impedance is the sensitivity of the headphones. Example: HE-6. Low ohms, but also low impedance. It needs a lot of juice.



Haha I think you mean low impedance, but also low sensitivity?


----------



## Rebel975

Yes, clearly.


----------



## Triggerfish

Quick question:
  The Senn 360 is open back correct?  How bad is the sound leakage?  My wife is already somewhat irritated at the various clicking of keys and mouse a room over while she is trying to sleep (much more so at the occasional frantic voice command), I really don't need to irritate her further by having her listen to assorted rumbles and explosions (love my World of Tanks).
   
  I'm currently using the steelseries siberia v2 and constantly listening to music while playing.  It does the job, but I know there is considerably better to be had.  I was looking at the asus xonar and senn 350 set and considering getting it, but after reading it sounds like the 360 is that much better so I may be grabbing the sound card and headset piecemeal.  I'm just worried about the open back vs. closed of the 350 or siberia.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## obazavil

If your wife gets angry at you because of clicks, forget about open headphones.
   
  I have both K702 and LCD-2 and they leak a LOT. I guess PC360 is the same.
   
  Just get a nice closed headphone. Even if soundstage won't be as good, you will isolate better. (Is more important to save your marriage than to get a better 3D)


----------



## chicolom

PC360's leak quite a bit


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Quick question:
> The Senn 360 is open back correct?  How bad is the sound leakage?  My wife is already somewhat irritated at the various clicking of keys and mouse a room over while she is trying to sleep (much more so at the occasional frantic voice command), I really don't need to irritate her further by having her listen to assorted rumbles and explosions (love my World of Tanks).
> I'm currently using the steelseries siberia v2 and constantly listening to music while playing.  It does the job, but I know there is considerably better to be had.  I was looking at the asus xonar and senn 350 set and considering getting it, but after reading it sounds like the 360 is that much better so I may be grabbing the sound card and headset piecemeal.  I'm just worried about the open back vs. closed of the 350 or siberia.
> Thanks.


 


  The Senn PC350 and PC360 are open headphones (they do have a cloth covered grill).


----------



## derycksan

I don't understand, positional queues are great without DH, that doesn't mean they aren't great gaming headphones.  Some people, such as myself, can't stand DH and headphones like the FA011's perform phenominally in stereo.  Even one of the most regarded headphones (AD700) work best with DH turned off IMO.
  
  Quote: 





vonx said:


> Well, I'd like to add one headphone that does NOT make the wanted list for headphones good with dolby surround sound decoders, and thats the Fischer Audio FA-011.
> 
> These have an absolutely immense soundstage, which is what led me to thinking they might be good for gaming, but to my surprise, that was NOT the case.
> 
> ...


----------



## Triggerfish

Thanks for the replies all.
   
  So with the Senns being out due to open back what would you suggest?  Looking for closed back, long session comfort (excellent at the moment with my siberia v2), and decent music and game performance.  Really looking to hear the rumble and guns of the tanks while listening to a wide variety of music, and occasionally jumping over to Battlefield 3 and listening for that helicopter position overhead.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Thanks for the replies all.
> 
> So with the Senns being out due to open back what would you suggest?  Looking for closed back, long session comfort (excellent at the moment with my siberia v2), and decent music and game performance.  Really looking to hear the rumble and guns of the tanks while listening to a wide variety of music, and occasionally jumping over to Battlefield 3 and listening for that helicopter position overhead.


 


  I'd say the Denon D2k's fit your requirements nicely.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> I'd say the Denon D2k's fit your requirements nicely.


 


  ...or perhaps dt770..


----------



## derycksan

Here's 3 suggestions.  Denon sound the best and most comfy.  Ultrasone are an excellent deal if you can find them under $150 (Amazon has them right now), very fun headphone for your purposes.
   
  Denon D2000
  Ultrasone Pro 550
  Creative Aurvana Live
   
  Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Thanks for the replies all.
> 
> So with the Senns being out due to open back what would you suggest?  Looking for closed back, long session comfort (excellent at the moment with my siberia v2), and decent music and game performance.  Really looking to hear the rumble and guns of the tanks while listening to a wide variety of music, and occasionally jumping over to Battlefield 3 and listening for that helicopter position overhead.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





derycksan said:


> I don't understand, positional queues are great without DH, that doesn't mean they aren't great gaming headphones.  Some people, such as myself, can't stand DH and headphones like the FA011's perform phenominally in stereo.  Even one of the most regarded headphones (AD700) work best with DH turned off IMO.


 
  Problem is, I cant listen to my headphones on my Xbox360 without dolby digital. There is no other optical way to connect them to my TV.
   
  I'm sure that might be the case for PC, but this isnt the case for me.


----------



## derycksan

Ahh, that makes sense I didn't think of that being a PC gamer.
  
  Quote: 





vonx said:


> Problem is, I cant listen to my headphones on my Xbox360 without dolby digital. There is no other optical way to connect them to my TV.
> 
> I'm sure that might be the case for PC, but this isnt the case for me.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Problem is, I cant listen to my headphones on my Xbox360 without dolby digital. There is no other optical way to connect them to my TV.
> 
> I'm sure that might be the case for PC, but this isnt the case for me.


 

 can't you disable DD from the output?  ps3 allows you to disable it, I always assumed the 360 offered similar functionality.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Thanks for the replies all.
> 
> So with the Senns being out due to open back what would you suggest?  Looking for closed back, long session comfort (excellent at the moment with my siberia v2), and decent music and game performance.  Really looking to hear the rumble and guns of the tanks while listening to a wide variety of music, and occasionally jumping over to Battlefield 3 and listening for that helicopter position overhead.


 

 Edition 8 (with S-Logic) are very good closed headphones for music, movies and gaming (bf3 for example). The details and bass are amazing


----------



## IlSol

Hi everyone! I have finally chosen the dt 770 80 Ohm- version. I just have to decide which dolby headphone amp to get. As i previously stated:
  - I play on my xbox 360 without having the need for voice chat
  -I watch a lot of blu-ray (or brrip) films on my macbook pro or my tv
  Which amp would be the best one for me, considering that i'd like to spend no more than 100 dollars? (I can raise my budget, if needed)
  Thanks again, Nicola


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> Hi everyone! I have finally chosen the dt 770 80 Ohm- version. I just have to decide which dolby headphone amp to get. As i previously stated:
> - I play on my* xbox 360 without having the need for voice chat*
> -I watch a lot of blu-ray (or brrip) films on my macbook pro or my tv
> Which amp would be the best one for me, considering that i'd like to spend no more than 100 dollars? (I can raise my budget, if needed)
> Thanks again, Nicola


 


  If you don't need voice chat, go with the Ear Force DSS. 
   
  I think Macbook pro's have a mini toslink out in the headphone jack, not sure.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think Macbook pro's have a mini toslink out in the headphone jack, not sure.


 


  Yes, they do. You'll need a TOSlink-to-1/8" (female to male) adaptor though, but I can confirm that it works--used to connect my MacBook Pro to a Maverick D1 this way.
   
  To give you an idea of what the adaptor looks like:


----------



## Triggerfish

Sigh, really wanting the Senn 360.  I'm still really new to this hobby, how bad is sound leakage from open headphones?  Is there any video or sound test out there that demonstrates what the sound leakage would sound like from certain distances?  Trying to figure out what I can get away with with my wife sleeping one room away with open doors (room gets too hot to close up).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Sigh, really wanting the Senn 360.  I'm still really new to this hobby, how bad is sound leakage from open headphones?  Is there any video or sound test out there that demonstrates what the sound leakage would sound like from certain distances?  Trying to figure out what I can get away with with my wife sleeping one room away with open doors (room gets too hot to close up).


 
  Door open???
  Can you close the door most of the way.
  Maybe put up a partition


----------



## sidel

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Sigh, really wanting the Senn 360.  I'm still really new to this hobby, how bad is sound leakage from open headphones?  Is there any video or sound test out there that demonstrates what the sound leakage would sound like from certain distances?  Trying to figure out what I can get away with with my wife sleeping one room away with open doors (room gets too hot to close up).


 

 Is there any distance between the rooms?  You likely don't have to worry about it;  leaking isn't _that _bad, unless you're talking about something truly open (I'm looking at you, grado)


----------



## chicolom

The PC360s leak an exceptional amount.  Think AD700 leakage.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Sigh, really wanting the Senn 360.  I'm still really new to this hobby, how bad is sound leakage from open headphones?  Is there any video or sound test out there that demonstrates what the sound leakage would sound like from certain distances?  Trying to figure out what I can get away with with my wife sleeping one room away with open doors (room gets too hot to close up).


 


  if she is in another room, i don't think leakage is that important. My wife complains about me talking, not playing when I'm in the PS3 with K702.
   
  Just order using amazon, and if you don't like it, or leaks more that you want, return it.


----------



## Cente

Hi guys, I'm undecided on these models:
   
  AD700 - HD598 - PC360
   
  I'd use them mainly for gaming (competitive counter strike) and for some music.
   
  Mad Lust Envy speak so good of all these models so I really don't know wich one I should pick.
  What do you think ?
   
  Thanks you so much!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cente said:


> Hi guys, I'm undecided on these models:
> AD700 - HD598 - PC360
> I'd use them mainly for gaming (competitive counter strike) and for some music.
> Mad Lust Envy speak so good of all these models so I really don't know wich one I should pick.
> ...


 

 HD-598, costs the most but will have the best sound.
  The price has come up about $50 in the past few weeks.


----------



## Cente

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> HD-598, costs the most but will have the best sound.
> The price has come up about $50 in the past few weeks.


 
  So with the HD598 I'll have better sound quality both in music and in gaming than the others?
  I found them at 155€ by the way.


----------



## obazavil

Need the mic? PC360
   
  otherwise HD598


----------



## Cente

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Need the mic? PC360
> 
> otherwise HD598


 


  Yeah well, I'm going to use a table mic so I don't really need it.
  It would just be an "extra", but if I have to sacrifice audio quality, forget it.


----------



## Evarin

I have the PC360's. They sound very good, but I guess I was still expecting better in the long run. What I HAVEN'T done with them yet is use the mic, but i've a feeling it will be quality as the whole setup is rock solid, light, and comfortable. I believe the first 2 require clip on mics and additional hardware (A mixamp, or can you get away with less?) in order to use it. The PC360 has a built in mic that has been consistently well reviewed.
   
  Honestly, I would go with the PC 360's for gaming, and once you get a sense of mid/high end headphones, make a separate purchase for music listening. Short of that, I would go with the HD598's. I think I will be going the DT990 +amp route once my finances are in order for pure music listening.


----------



## Triggerfish

Ok, going with the Senn 360s and figuring out the consequences from there.  Any recommendation on sound card?  I want an Asus Xonar, but which is recommended?  Was primarily considering the Asus Xonar line due to the included amp and generally good reviews as I'm looking for a mix of excellent music, great rumbling explosions, and good positional audio, all likely at the same time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Ok, going with the Senn 360s and figuring out the consequences from there.  Any recommendation on sound card?  I want an Asus Xonar, but which is recommended?  Was primarily considering the Asus Xonar line due to the included amp and generally good reviews as I'm looking for a mix of excellent music, great rumbling explosions, and good positional audio, all likely at the same time.


 

 You could try getting the Asus Xonar DG (PCI) for now, $20 after $10 mail in rebate.
  The headphone amplifier is rated up to 150-Ohms and the Senn PC360 is only 50-Ohms.
  Best prices for higher end sound cards would be Feb to May.
   
  Creative Labs cards would be a better choice for FPS 5.1 surround sound gaming
  The new Creative card the Recon3D PCI-Express (SB1350) is expected out on Dec 16th,
  comes with a headphone amplifier rated up to 600-Ohms and priced around $100.
   
  The Xonar Essence STX would be almost as good at FPS gaming and would (should) have better sound quality.


----------



## Triggerfish

Hmm.. couldn't find any preliminary tests of the Recon3d.  Kind of torn if I should get the stx or wait for the $70 cheaper recon.  The obvious choice would be to wait for the tests on the recon...... darn impatience.  Why would you believe that the stx should have better sound quality?


----------



## Evarin

You could also go with an Astro mix-amp and run it from your computer to your headphones. I got one and actually liked the way it handled Skyrim. Didn't try an FPS, but it sounds just as good as my Yamaha's Silent Cinema.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Hmm.. couldn't find any preliminary tests of the Recon3d.  Kind of torn if I should get the stx or wait for the $70 cheaper recon.  The obvious choice would be to wait for the tests on the recon...... darn impatience.  Why would you believe that the stx should have better sound quality?


 


  Someone saw the specs on the Recon3D, was not impressed. and i believe there are no replaceable chips on the Recon3D.
  Where as the STX can be upgraded with the latest op-amps.


----------



## Evarin

I'm having trouble getting true Dolby digital to my receiver via my computer. Anyone else playing Skyrim? It doesn't seem to have Dolby Digital, or any sound options that I could see. Nothing on the box, either.


----------



## Vonx

Can anyone elaborate a considerable upgrade from the Tritton AX720's?
   
  I am itching to buy this christmas season but I dont want to jump unless the upgrade is worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vonx said:


> Can anyone elaborate a considerable upgrade from the Tritton AX720's?
> 
> I am itching to buy this christmas season but I dont want to jump unless the upgrade is worth it.




If you need a mic: PC360. I own the PC360, while my old longtime roomie owns the AX720. The PC360 is a clear step up. The bass is a little stronger on the Ax720 (due to it's closed design), but the PC360's bass is good and isn't lacking compared to the mids and highs. It's well balanced, with better details than the AX720, much better soundstage, and better DH positioning.

BTW, words can't express how much I miss audiophile headphones. Oh, my dear D7000 and HE4.... sacrificed for the better good (in this case a 65" Panasonic Plasma, lol).


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, words can't express how much I miss audiophile headphones. Oh, my dear D7000 and HE4.... sacrificed for the better good (in this case a 65" Panasonic Plasma, lol).


 

 When you come back to audiophiles world, skip D7000 and jump straight Edition 8, They rock 
   
  I want a TV of that size ... 
   
  Welcome back MLE


----------



## klopow

I have a pair of PC360's, but I'm torn with the choices for internal sound cards.  I'm strictly using them for games.  I bought the ASUS Xonar DG and it sounds great with Dolby surround, but the 3.5mm mic jack refuses to work in the sound card.  The only thing I can do is plug into my case's front panel (which uses the HD Audio from the Xonar).  I want a sound card that functions correctly and is ideal for gaming with the PC360's.  Any suggestions?


----------



## MunchyGut

Hello everyone, first time poster, long time lurker 
   
  I wanted to share my little journey I went on in the world of headphones.
   
  This is written from the perspective of someone who always appreciated audio, but never really knew what was good sounding (until recently)
   
  I would like to start with the *tl;dr* - If you are considering getting a pair of dt 990s, (and I would assume 880s, 770s etc), you *NEED NEED NEED* an amp.  Also, if you are just starting out into the world of audio, (not DH, just hifi phones in general,) the ax720s will fit the bill very nicely.  It is all you should need.  If you want more, you can very easily upgrade later.  
   
Anyways, My world of DH audio started off with the ax720s.  I did some research online on sites other that head-fi, and decided that the astro a40s were overrated, and I was not impressed with any of the TB headsets I had heard.  720s sounded like the best bet to me.
   
Got them and loved them, for a while that is.  Maybe a year.  Then the upgradeitis set in.
   
I started looking around for alternatives, and what would give me the absolute best directional positioning available.  I then looked into the ax Pros.  I figured, 5 drivers in each ear (or w/e it it) must sound better than a simulated experience, right?
   
Wrong.  They turned out to be flashy, but not really good at what they were supposed to do.  It sounded like there were six or so spots around me, and sound only came from those spots.  It did not sound like a full 360 degree sound field.
   
So after they broke (took them a day and a half btw, and to be fair, they were used), I decided that I would do research into the astros.  Found this thread, and was blown away.  Never considered using the 3.5mm inputs in the puck of the 720 amp.  I then ordered a pair of ad700s, and a dealextreme mic.
   
  I love the Ad700s, and I think they are awesome for when you really want to soundwhore.  I play a lot of shooters, just like most other people out there.)
   
  I ordered a Mixamp to try it out (wireless), and was not impressed enough to justify the ~$150 price tag when I already have the 720 decoder box.  I sent it back. Don't get me wrong, it is awesome, and I would recommend it to anyone who has nice cans already, but wants DH.  Get that over the 720 amp.  But if you are working from scratch, the 720 amp is better value for money imo.
   
  I still love the AD700s, but the other day, I really decided that I wanted to try something with any bass at all (i.e. not the ad700s.  Seriously, I figured that you all just had really high standards from listening to flagship cans, and that the amount of bass was blown out of proportion.)  From what I can tell, people on this site like to blow EVERYTHING out of proportion, describing small to medium differences as night and day.  The word "amazing" is so taboo here it's not even funny lol!
   
  Back to the point, my journey took another turn the other day when I on a whim ordered a pair of dt990/250 pros for $175 US with a Behringer ha400 microamp included.  Decent price from what I can tell.  The amp I can consider a throwaway once my e9 comes tomorrow.  
   
  Just want to share my experiences and opinions with anyone else who has just entered this world of hifi cans, and wants a more utilitarian, realistic review of these cans (i.e. from someone who really can't tell the difference between a lot of these things)
   
   
*SUMMARY:  ALL REVIEWS ARE MY OPINION, and are with DH!*
   
  AX720 - If you have never heard a pair of decent headphones (and I mean more than maybe $50), these will be perfect for you.  They provide upgradeability for the future through the decoder box, and you get a pair of headphones with an attached mic.  Do not underestimate these.  If you have little headphone experience, and you want to get started, this is what you should buy, especially if you are not ready to drop over $100 just on the headphones alone.  Overall, I would give them a 6/10, when compared to the other cans I own.  When compared to stereo gaming on tv speakers, it is a whole different world.  9/10.  Directional positioning is about on par with the dt990s, maybe a 7/10.  Fun factor is a 7/10 as well.
   
  Ad700 - These cans offer the best positional audio of any pair I have ever heard.  With a DH source, they are perfect for gaming in Multiplayer environments, when your objective is to gain an advantage over your opponents.  If you are looking to be immersed in the environment, they both greatly succeed and fall short at the same time.  You will hear every small detail that the game gives off, and know exactly where your opponents are.  This however, does not mean that you will hear the footsteps of your opponents on the complete other side of the map.  It means that if someone is close enough to kill you, you will know it if you pay attention.  These come highly recommended from me.  They look dorky, but are very comfortable imo, and I have an average sized head.  They will move a bit if you whip your head, but when gaming, who does that?  You are staring straight at the screen the whole time.  Overall, compared to the 720s and the DT990s, I would say that they are a 10/10 for positional accuracy, and about a 4/10 for just having fun while playing.  You will not hear explosions, or the rumble of gunfire or anything like that.  It will be there, sure, but it will not make you **** your pants in excitement.  Music wise, stick to classical only.  I can not exaggerate this enough.  Look elsewhere if you want one pair of headphones for both gaming and music, or SP gaming and MP gaming.
   
  DT990/250 ohm Pro - Just got these today.  My first pair of nice headphones btw.  Initial impressions:  They are awesome for both SP and MP gaming WITH AN AMP.  I bought these thinking, "Everyone on head-fi must over-exaggerate the need for an amp.  It will probably be fine without one.  So when I first fired these up, I plugged them into the line out on my onboard audio of my pc, and was a little underwhelmed.  So I tried it through the 720 decoder box, and it was a bit better (with DH off of course.)  Next test was in MW3.  With the volume all the way up, it was still underwhelming.  Still more bass and immersion the the AD700s, but not to the level expected.  I had my volume all the way up, and it was only a medium volume.  Then I decided that I would try out the HA400 that came with them.  It is a ton better for everything that I listed, but I can tell they are still underpowered, hence the e9 in the mail .  These cans are going to provide you with top notch directional positioning, but it is somewhat harder to find people around you.  You can still hear people's footsteps clearly, thats not the problem.  If you wanted these for 100% competitive mp, then the AD700s are a better choice.  If you play comp.  mp about half the time, and the other half you play serious, but with your friends on XBL or PSN, then these are PERFECT.  They provide plenty of clarity and directional positioning for soundwhoring, but at the same time they make the game very fun to play.  Directional positioning 8/10, fun factor 10/10.  Musically, they are good for genres with bass and subbass, where clarity is also a key factor (dubstep etc.)  Keep in mind, this is from the perspective of someone who has heard about 10 pairs of headphones, and these were easily the most expensive.  If Skullcandy and Beats are all you know, then these will be well beyond what you would want.  If I had to pick one pair to use, and that was it, these would be it no question.  AD700s are only useful as a tool, and are not really that fun to game with.  720s are like the minor league variants of these.  If you don't know any better, then the 720s will sound fine.  BTW, this is all with the DT990s AMPED.  You will not be happy with them without an amp.  If you do not have the budget to get an amp, then just pass.  No questions asked.
   
  My .02  (actually more like $1.50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) on the world of headphone gaming, from an entry level perspective.  My apologies if this post is way too long for the forum, or if anyone feels offended by my opinions.  They are my opinions, and that is that.  Once I start writing, I just don't stop.  I could go on and on about this even more, but that should sum it up fairly well.  Most of this stuff has been said in the 164 pages of this thread (all of this I read)
   
  Most people just have not enough time to read the entire thread.  This is my attempt to provide an analysis by someone who hasn't spent thousands of dollars on cans (yet  )  
   
  Thanks all!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> When you come back to audiophiles world, skip D7000 and jump straight Edition 8, They rock
> 
> I want a TV of that size ...
> 
> Welcome back MLE




Nah, if I went back to the audiophile world, it would be for cans in the range of $200-350, which is where I find price/performance to be at it's best. I loved delving into the higher end stuff, but I found it unnecessary when the mid-fi was just so damn good.

Not back, fyi, just visiting. I find it better for my sanity and wallet to stay away. XD

Munchy, I couldn't have put it better myself. I too feel the DT990 definitely need an amp in conjunction with the Mixamp, even 32ohm variants. Beyer dropped the ball in the 32ohm versions, since those are still very power hungry, and regularly go for more than the 250ohms and 600ohm..


----------



## Minosmal

Well after lurking around for quite awhile, reading up, and using nothing by 20$ headphones most of my life, i just purchased some 598s off amazon per your advice, Mad Lust Envy. Gonna be using them for gaming, and music while gaming. I'll likely be updating here with what i think of em. Im under the impression i won't be disappointed   
   
  Thanks for all the info!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As long as you don't expect booming bass, you won't be.


----------



## obazavil

Great post MunchyGut, thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow... the HTX7 is exceptionally....dark. No...just no. The KSC35 stomps all over the HTX7. Oh well, what could I expect for $30. <_<


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mad lust envy said:


> Wow... the HTX7 is exceptionally....dark. No...just no. The KSC35 stomps all over the HTX7. Oh well, what could I expect for $30.




Wondewr why it's blank.... 

Again...

Wow... the HTX7 is exceptionally....dark. No...just no. The KSC35 stomps all over the HTX7. Oh well, what could I expect for $30. It does bass well though, so it's a guilty pleasure for when I just want some massive thump.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, do you prefer the KSC35 to the 75?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> MLE, do you prefer the KSC35 to the 75?




Yes, after having spent so much time with both, I found the KSC35 to have a much fuller sound, more akin to a full sized headphone. The KSC75 is great (especially at the price), but it sounds somewhat constricted in comparison. I do prefer the brighter signature of the KSC75, but overall, the merits of the KSC35 outweight the brightness of the KSC75. The bass has body to it to.

I don't spend much time using the KSC35 for gaming, but I don't exactly think they are great for it. I don't have the usual games that I base my testing on, so I can't really give them a rating.

As much as I'd like to give it a chance, the HTX7 is packed up and ready for a return. They are just terribad. They make the KSC35 sound bright.... they are just so muddy and dark. No thanks.

Gah, awhile ago, I bent the KSC75 clips a bit too much, and couldn't put them back in the right spot, so I tossed them. They weren't getting any use over the KSC35 anyway. The KSC35 clips are plastic and don't compare to the KSC75 clips, but they are in the perfect position to get the best out of the clip on's sound.


----------



## chicolom

Hmm.. I would jump on the KSC35, except that they're $45 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   




   
  EDIT:  It looks like Sporta Pro + Clips = KSC35...


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you need a mic: PC360. I own the PC360, while my old longtime roomie owns the AX720. The PC360 is a clear step up. The bass is a little stronger on the Ax720 (due to it's closed design), but the PC360's bass is good and isn't lacking compared to the mids and highs. It's well balanced, with better details than the AX720, much better soundstage, and better DH positioning.
> BTW, words can't express how much I miss audiophile headphones. Oh, my dear D7000 and HE4.... sacrificed for the better good (in this case a 65" Panasonic Plasma, lol).


 


  You never mentioned what i should get if i dont need a mic!
   
  Im guessing 701's? or hd598's? whats your idea?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





vonx said:


> You never mentioned what i should get if i dont need a mic!
> I'm guessing 701's? or hd598's? whats your idea?


 

 The ATH-AD700s lack of bass is a turn off (besides, I'm not a FPS gamer).
  Get the Sennheiser HD-558s, go to Electronics-Expo, use the coupon code "BOUNTII".


----------



## chicolom

I use Q701s.  HD558s or 598s would be good too...Q701 has some differences.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I use Q701s.  HD558s or 598s would be good too...Q701 has some differences.


 


  Can you compare them? Which one reigns superior for FPS gaming, in your opinion?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Can you compare them? Which one reigns superior for FPS gaming?


 

 Sure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  TL;DR - If your just using them for FPS gaming I would probably go with one of the Sennheisers. 
   
Q701s are definitely better for _single player gaming/immersion _though.
    Q701s   
  Sound more realistic, smoother, "musical", and _natural_, but this doesn't necessarily mean they're better for FPS gaming.  The Q701s have a fuller weightier sound than the PC360.  PC360s sound more hollow. I think for FPS gaming, the Sennheisers emphasize the frequencies you want to hear better.  Q701s to me are a little warmer sounding, fuller, punchier, and have stronger deeper bass then the Sennheisers.  The soundstage is also taller/and "bigger" sounding.  The actual distance between objects is similar.  The Q701 sometimes makes objects sound a little closer, which I think is in part due to the less airy sound.  Positioning is good on both.
   
 The Sennheisers (HD5xx, PC360)   
_Keep in mind I've only heard the PC360s_, _but the sound should be quite similiar among the HD5xx/PC360_...
   
  The Senns sound a little colder/more analytical to me, probably because they have more upper mid/lower treble emphasis. While the Q701s are more detailed and the treble extends higher, the other frequencies (bass/mids) are fuller on the Q701s which make the treble balanced/not emphasized.  In comparison, at the same volume the Sennheisers will push the upper mids/treble they have more, making it come out stronger in the balance.  Also the lower frequencies are weaker in the balance compared to the Q's - which is _good_ for FPS (just look at the AD700s !!). 
   

 So for _strictly _FPS gaming, I'd recommend the Senns as they emphasizes and etch out the FPS frequencies (foostep, reload, etc.) more than the Q701s do without distracting bass.
   
   
 A note on the AD700s:    
  MunchyGut hit the nail on the head with his description of the AD700s (below)
   

 I would like to add that I would _still _reach for the Senns over the AD700s for competitive multiplayer.  The AD700 sharpen and etch out the "FPS" detail even more then the Senns, but IMO it's _too much_ at that point and sounds way too thin and sharp.  You sacrifice your _enjoyment _of the audio for that extra emphasis.  The 10/10 positioning isn't worth that sacrifice IMO. 
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *MunchyGut* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Ad700 - These cans offer the best positional audio of any pair I have ever heard.  With a DH source, they are perfect for gaming in Multiplayer environments, when your objective is to gain an advantage over your opponents.  If you are looking to be immersed in the environment, they both greatly succeed and fall short at the same time.  You will hear every small detail that the game gives off, and know exactly where your opponents are.  This however, does not mean that you will hear the footsteps of your opponents on the complete other side of the map.  It means that if someone is close enough to kill you, you will know it if you pay attention.  These come highly recommended from me.  They look dorky, but are very comfortable imo, and I have an average sized head.  They will move a bit if you whip your head, but when gaming, who does that?  You are staring straight at the screen the whole time.  Overall, compared to the 720s and the DT990s, I would say that they are a 10/10 for positional accuracy, and about a 4/10 for just having fun while playing.  You will not hear explosions, or the rumble of gunfire or anything like that.  It will be there, sure, but it will not make you **** your pants in excitement. * Music wise, stick to classical only*.  I can not exaggerate this enough. * Look elsewhere if you want one pair of headphones for both gaming and music, or SP gaming and MP gaming.*


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 wow, thanks for all the effort with the description! 
   
  hmmzies, now in terms of strict performance for FPS, which sen sound whores the best?
   
  I dont care which one has or doesnt have a mic, im talking strict performance  
   
  if i had these headphones, i would do a footstep, reload test to see which one has the loudest frequencies at the furthest distances with a buddy and have him run toward me and reload at different distances like i did with my 720's 
   
  although i dont have them so i cant compare 
   
  anyone have a say?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





vonx said:


> wow, thanks for all the effort with the description!
> 
> hmmzies, now in terms of strict performance for FPS, which sen sound whores the best?
> 
> I dont care which one has or doesnt have a mic, im talking strict performance


 
   
  No problem.  I knew thats more description then you needed, but I like to post it anyways google can index it for other people searching on this stuff on the internetz 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The HD598s would be the best of the Senns.


----------



## Evarin

No one else playing Skyrim through something other than a mix-amp at the moment?
   
  I'm definitely still looking to pick up at pair of Beyers w/ an amp. Just need to figure out which would go with the closed cans the best, and save up the money. I want a pair of headphones for the library/work that I can use but not drive everyone nuts around me. That pretty much eliminates all open headphones IMO. I took the PC 360's to the library yesterday. I'm sure I looked quite the tool, but it was still nice to have good sound while studying for Microbio. 
   
  Glad to see MLE pop in as well as the other excellent additions to this guide. As far as i'm concerned this thread is 166 pages of win.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> No problem.  I knew thats more description then you needed, but I like to post it anyways google can index it for other people searching on this stuff on the internetz
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Better than the PC360s strictly for gaming?
   
  I knew the HD598s were superior sound quality wise, but do you think they are superior for fps gaming?
   
  What if i bumped up to the hd-600's? :0


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 and HD598 are on par with each other for gaming. The SQ improvement on the HD598 doesn't factor how well it does with gaming compared to the PC360. Honestly, if gaming is priority, the PC360 is a better value. Like I stated when I made this thread, even though the HD598 sounds better, I don't miss it while having the PC360. Another thing I need to mention again, and again, is that people need to stop saying that the PC360 is based off the 555/595, because those who HAVE heard the PC360 and 555/595 have stated that they sound different. The housing is different, and everyone should already know by now that the drivers are only one aspect that makes up a headphone's sound.

From old friends on AVS, I've been told the HD600 doesn't do that well for gaming compared to the cheaper 5xx series (at least in terms of virtual surround).


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Another thing I need to mention again, and again, is that people need to stop saying that the PC360 is based off the 555/595, because those who HAVE heard the PC360 and 555/595 have stated that they sound different. The housing is different, and everyone should already know by now that the drivers are only one aspect that makes up a headphone's sound.


 


  Saying the PC360s are based off the 555/595 is _not_ the same as saying "they sound the same".  I thought that was implied.  Even minor changes to the enclosure (such as with HD555 & HD595) affect the sound, and obviously the enclosure is very different on the PC360 with a volume pot/ and a very large microphone resting behind both drivers.


----------



## chicolom

I'm curious about those new open Shures are with DH.  Too bad they look hella expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Or maybe that's a good thing *puts wallet away*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My god, if somewhere the Denon D2000 sells for $200-250-ish, I'd buy them today. I'm missing my D7000, and I have no doubt the D2000 would satisfy my urges. Sure, it's not the same, but it's in the same house sound, which is what I want. The KSC35 can only do so much, and the PC360 isn't what I have in mind for music. 



chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> Saying the PC360s are based off the 555/595 is _not_ the same as saying "they sound the same".  I thought that was implied.  Even minor changes to the enclosure (such as with HD555 & HD595) affect the sound, and obviously the enclosure is very different on the PC360 with a volume pot/ and a very large microphone resting behind both drivers.




The problem is that people shy away from the PC360 because they think it will sound like the 555. It doesn't, even post-mod.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My god, if somewhere the Denon D2000 sells for $200-250-ish, I'd buy them today. I'm missing my D7000, and I have no doubt the D2000 would satisfy my urges. Sure, it's not the same, but it's in the same house sound, which is what I want.


 


  Is the D2000 discontinued?  It seems like its becoming rare/hard to get.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. I've been out of the headphone game since selling the HE4 and D7000. I recently ordered a pair of CALs for my mother's boyfriend, and the headphone bug bit me. The HTX7 left a really bad taste in my mouth, and now I'm on the hunt for some full sized bassy cans to call it a day. Was close to getting another pair of CALs for myself, but I really wanna try something new.

Was close to getting the Pro 900 for $300 on Amazon, but I don't want severe mid bass. I'm more of a sub bass man, which is what Denon is known for.

I'm really regretting getting rid of the D7000. I wanna cry. I have absolutely no desire to find what's better than the D7000. They were absolutely perfect for me. ;_;


----------



## DarkSPandaZ

Great post!

 Would you add ATH-AD900 to the very first post? I would really love to hear your opinion on it in comparison to the plethora of reviews you have already made. Basically curious as to where it stands against PC 360 and ATH-AD700. Logically, AD900 should be better than AD700, but my interest lies in what you and the community have to say to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have any intention on getting another headphone with the wing design. I hated that about the AD700. My post wasn't supposed to be something elaborate like joker's portable review thread where he is constantly getting new headphones to review. I only gave my opinion on headphones I had already owned. I'm not planning on really getting any more headphones, other than one final pair of decent mid-fi headphones to settle with. Sorry.


----------



## Z3120

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My god, if somewhere the Denon D2000 sells for $200-250-ish, I'd buy them today. I'm missing my D7000, and I have no doubt the D2000 would satisfy my urges. Sure, it's not the same, but it's in the same house sound, which is what I want. The KSC35 can only do so much, and the PC360 isn't what I have in mind for music.


 
   
  Pretty sure J&R still sells them for $250 if you call them.


----------



## rabidgamer

So Christmas is coming up and I'm considering treating myself... but not too sure if it'll be worth it.
   
  Going over this thread I've read that the PC360s are brilliant etc which has got me interested, I currently game on the xbox 360 with AD700s + Mixamp 5.8 and a clip on mic, I do love them but my main issues are the fit, they just don't feel secure on my head so not sure, going to try the rubber band thing later.
   
  Anyway are the PC360s a step up from the AD700s? The only game I play competitively really is BF3 so wanting something that is good for offline gaming as well (Skyrim) and just wondering if they are a lot better or only just, and if it would be worth it to pick them up.
   
  Also, is it just me or does MW3 sound dreadful? I swear the game is near enough unplayable with the AD700s for me as everything just sounds such low quality... not sure if I'm going mad. I also can't pinpoint/hear footsteps at all in that game either really, which is a shame.


----------



## RapidPulse

Quote: 





rabidgamer said:


> Also, is it just me or does MW3 sound dreadful? I swear the game is near enough unplayable with the AD700s for me as everything just sounds such low quality... not sure if I'm going mad. I also can't pinpoint/hear footsteps at all in that game either really, which is a shame.


 

 I couldn't agree more!  It seems like they really went out of their way to nerf the sound in MW3.  I am having a really hard time pinpointing footsteps with my DT990s...which has never been a problem before.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rabidgamer said:


> So Christmas is coming up and I'm considering treating myself... but not too sure if it'll be worth it.
> 
> Going over this thread I've read that the PC360s are brilliant etc which has got me interested, I currently game on the xbox 360 with AD700s + Mixamp 5.8 and a clip on mic, I do love them but my main issues are the fit, they just don't feel secure on my head so not sure, going to try the rubber band thing later.
> 
> ...




The PC360 is better balanced, and actually has bass. Not a bassy can by any means, but it's in line with everything else you hear. If you turn on the bass boost on the 5.8, it becomes quite a thumpy can too, though with severe bass passage, it will distort (I blame the 5.8, not the PC360, as they don't distort with my E7). To me, it's more of a sidegrade from the AD700s in terms of competitive gaming sound, but for everything else, they sound more naatural and enjoyable. They are definitely better in comfort for me. They are a lot more secure on my head. They may clamp a bit at first, so my suggestion is to overextend the arms a bit to where the headband is sitting on your head, not gripping. They will still remain in place well. In terms of positioning and whatnot, you really won't be missing much from the AD700.


----------



## MunchyGut

Quote: 





rapidpulse said:


> I couldn't agree more!  It seems like they really went out of their way to nerf the sound in MW3.  I am having a really hard time pinpointing footsteps with my DT990s...which has never been a problem before.


 


  I feel the same way.
   
  For some reason I feel like the sound in games has been going downhill a bit recently.  I hear BF has great sound, but I have never heard it, so I couldn't say.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





rapidpulse said:


> I couldn't agree more!  It seems like they really went out of their way to nerf the sound in MW3.  I am having a really hard time pinpointing footsteps with my DT990s...which has never been a problem before.


 


  I FEEL that!
   
  They did nerf the audio, hardcore.
   
  It seems contradictory, too, because they designed the maps to cater towards more experienced players, and yet they completely went AWOL with the audio.
   
  Gunshots are way too loud, footsteps are way too quiet, helicopters/ah-6/s, pavelows, are way too loud....i could keep going. Everything was a mistake as far as audio.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 and HD598 are on par with each other for gaming. The SQ improvement on the HD598 doesn't factor how well it does with gaming compared to the PC360. Honestly, if gaming is priority, the PC360 is a better value. Like I stated when I made this thread, even though the HD598 sounds better, I don't miss it while having the PC360. Another thing I need to mention again, and again, is that people need to stop saying that the PC360 is based off the 555/595, because those who HAVE heard the PC360 and 555/595 have stated that they sound different. The housing is different, and everyone should already know by now that the drivers are only one aspect that makes up a headphone's sound.
> From old friends on AVS, I've been told the HD600 doesn't do that well for gaming compared to the cheaper 5xx series (at least in terms of virtual surround).


 


  Well, the pc360 and the hd598s are about the same price right now on amazon, they both took a price spike 
   
  does anybody know where i could get a good price on either phone, particularly the hd598s?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Well, the pc360 and the hd598s are about the same price right now on amazon, they both took a price spike
> does anybody know where i could get a good price on either phone, particularly the hd598s?


 

 Checked the bountii website, best price on the HD-598 is Crutchfield.
  PC360 prices are way high right now


----------



## obazavil

pc360 should be ~190 with razordogdeals at ebay or 210 at amazon


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





munchygut said:


> For some reason I feel like the sound in games has been going downhill a bit recently.  I hear BF has great sound, but I have never heard it, so I couldn't say.


 

 You're not alone. I feel much the same way.
   
  At least with PC gaming, we've gone from hardware-accelerated audio with a proper 3D sound scape (sound described via 3D coordinates, sound card driver decides where and how those sounds should be played) under DirectSound3D and OpenAL to software-accelerated audio pre-mixed to 7.1 (2D, no height) at best and stereo (1D, only left-right panning) at worst before it hits the sound card driver, with no binaural mixing option. This is apparently a feature, not a bug, done for the developer's convenience, actual 3D sound be damned.
   
  Regarding the Battlefield series, 1942, Vietnam, 2, and 2142 have great positional sound, particularly because they used DS3D (1942, Vietnam) or OpenAL (BF2, 2142). Bad Company 2 has great sound direction in that the effects sound great, but they've gone to a software-based audio engine whose imaging isn't all that great in my experience. I can't pinpoint sounds as well as I could in the older games. I have no extensive experience with Battlefield 3, but don't expect any radical changes in the sound engine.


----------



## Eric_C

I heard distortion in AC: Revelations last night, during one of the tower defense sequences (lots of things were blowing up). It might be my setup--360 to a tube amp--but can anyone verify if the sound is coded badly?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I heard distortion in AC: Revelations last night, during one of the tower defense sequences (lots of things were blowing up). It might be my setup--360 to a tube amp--but can anyone verify if the sound is coded badly?


 


  Sometimes I get weird noises on AC creed just running through the streets too fast/shoving people.  It sounds to me like it's overflowing a buffer.  I get the same sound when messing around with asio drivers with music keyboards and setting the latency/buffer size too small and then overflowing it.  Could be that's what it is.


----------



## chicolom

New HeadRoom article posted on the Beyerdynamic MMX 300:
  http://www.headphone.com/rightbetweenyourears/?p=2294


----------



## chicolom

^  I didn't know the MMX 300 has _a 5 year warranty?!_
   
  Dayum!


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Sometimes I get weird noises on AC creed just running through the streets too fast/shoving people.  It sounds to me like it's overflowing a buffer.  I get the same sound when messing around with asio drivers with music keyboards and setting the latency/buffer size too small and then overflowing it.  Could be that's what it is.


 


  Phew. Good to know it's not my setup.

  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> ^  I didn't know the MMX 300 has _a 5 year warranty?!_
> 
> Dayum!


 


  ...Crud. -smashes DT 880-


----------



## rabidgamer

Well I bought the PC360 and it arrived today, first impressions are good. 

So far on BF3 I can't say I've noticed too much difference, although the ad700s imo sound a little clearer. Still hearing the majority of things really well and ofc the mic is brilliant. It doesn't sound as harsh on my ears either, which I found to be an issue with the ad700s after extended use.


----------



## MunchyGut

http://www.razordogdeals.com/collections/frontpage/products/sennheiser-hd-598-audiophile-headphones
  
  Razer Dog Deals link for anyone who is interested


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





munchygut said:


> http://www.razordogdeals.com/collections/frontpage/products/sennheiser-hd-598-audiophile-headphones
> 
> Razer Dog Deals link for anyone who is interested


 


  They have PC360 at 199 too
   
  http://www.razordogdeals.com/products/sennheiser-pc-360-pc-gaming-headset-pc360


----------



## Triggerfish

Sigh.
  I finally thought I knew what I'm going for with a Senn PC360 and Asus Xonar STX combo, and then someone shows the Beyer MMX 300.  Back to confusion again.  This thing looks amazing, and is closed back.  That was one of my main worries about the 360 (as it definitely will have an impact on a nearby sleeping wife).  I've read all of the reviews I could find online about the mmx 300.  Anyone here have any last minute practical experience with it?  Especially wondering how useful the included usb sound card is, as going up the mmx 300 in price wouldn't leave much money left for a new soundcard.
   
  Main things I'm looking for in a headset are good music performance, good comfort for multi hour play sessions, decent positional sound, and nice immersive rumbles and booms from my assorted World of Tanks tanks.
   
  Thanks again all


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Sigh.
> I finally thought I knew what I'm going for with a Senn PC360 and Asus Xonar STX combo, and then someone shows the Beyer MMX 300.  Back to confusion again.  This thing looks amazing, and is closed back.  That was one of my main worries about the 360 (as it definitely will have an impact on a nearby sleeping wife).  I've read all of the reviews I could find online about the mmx 300.  Anyone here have any last minute practical experience with it?  Especially wondering how useful the included usb sound card is, as going up the mmx 300 in price wouldn't leave much money left for a new soundcard.
> 
> Main things I'm looking for in a headset are good music performance, good comfort for multi hour play sessions, decent positional sound, and nice immersive rumbles and booms from my assorted World of Tanks tanks.
> ...


 


  you just described the mmx 300. its exactly what your looking for.
   
  What I would do though, is get a used dt770, since thats what the mmx 300 essentially is. 
   
  I haven't seen a lot of direct comparisons but I heard they sound pretty similar, and you can always just get a clip on mic from amazon for $10 
   
  theres no way i would pay $350 for those.


----------



## chicolom

I agree ^
   
  Yes, the MMX 300 are nice, but overpriced.  They are basically DT770s with a mic that cost several hundred dollars more.  A DT770 (32 ohm version?) + antlion mod mic would save you $$$.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I agree ^
> 
> Yes, the MMX 300 are nice, but overpriced.  They are basically DT770s with a mic that cost several hundred dollars more.  A DT770 (32 ohm version?) + antlion mod mic would save you $$$.


 


  you could find a used dt770 in the sub $150 category if you look hard enough


----------



## FreedomG

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should use to power AKG K701's? I was hoping to get an amp good for music + gaming..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





freedomg said:


> Anyone have any suggestions on what I should use to power AKG K701's? I was hoping to get an amp good for music + gaming..


 


  PC gaming, or console?  Do you have surround sound virtualization such as dobly headphone already?


----------



## FreedomG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> PC gaming, or console?  Do you have surround sound virtualization such as dobly headphone already?


 


  PC Gaming, and no I don't..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think I'm gonna go ahead and just not kid myself. I want the D7000 again. IF they somehow manage to go down to $600 new like when I bought them last year ($590!), I'll take that hit and call it a day. We'll see what happens in the coming weeks, as deals are bound to be plentiful during the holidays. They were absolute magic, and caused me to not search for anything better. I did get the HE4 after, but that was because I wanted something open. They were different, but the D7000 was what made my jaw drop every time.


----------



## Armaegis

Quote: 





vonx said:


> you could find a used dt770 in the sub $150 category if you look hard enough


 


  Heck, you can find them NEW at that price if you look hard enough.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





freedomg said:


> PC Gaming, and no I don't..


 
   
  I think a Dobly Headphone sound card would be good.  I'm not a pc gamer so I don't know my sound cards.  For music amps, the Matrix M-Stage is commonly paired with K701s.
  

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I want the D7000 again. IF they somehow manage to go down to $600 new like when I bought them last year ($590!), I'll take that hit and call it a day.


 
   
  On sale right now for $189 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Seller looks legit....All you have do is wire money to their bank in China
  http://www.oemship.com/new-denon-ahd7000-portable-headphone-headphones_p671.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a gamble that some other suck--enthusiast can take. Lol


----------



## FreedomG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think a Dobly Headphone sound card would be good.  I'm not a pc gamer so I don't know my sound cards.  For music amps, the Matrix M-Stage is commonly paired with K701s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey, thanks for the reply! That amp would cost me more than the headphones themselves cost me.. Is there anything cheaper than would give me the same performance? I know it might be a dumb question, but its just difficult for me to believe it would be another 250 to get the best performance out of these.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





freedomg said:


> Hey, thanks for the reply! That amp would cost me more than the headphones themselves cost me.. Is there anything cheaper than would give me the same performance? I know it might be a dumb question, but its just difficult for me to believe it would be another 250 to get the best performance out of these.


 
   
  You could get a FiiO E10.  The amp section obviously isn't on par with the m-stage but I like it for the price.  An E9 amp double amping the laptops headphone jack doesn't sound as good as an E10 alone.


----------



## FreedomG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You could get a FiiO E10.  The amp section obviously isn't on par with the m-stage but I like it for the price.  An E9 amp double amping the laptops headphone jack doesn't sound as good as an E10 alone.


 


  Do you by any chance know the quality difference I'd hear using the M-Stage over the FiiO E10?


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think a Dobly Headphone sound card would be good.  I'm not a pc gamer so I don't know my sound cards.  For music amps, the Matrix M-Stage is commonly paired with K701s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  omgggggggg someone please be a test dummy and legitimifiy their sales


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





vonx said:


> omgggggggg someone please be a test dummy and legitimifiy their sales


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





freedomg said:


> Do you by any chance know the quality difference I'd hear using the M-Stage over the FiiO E10?


 

  
  M-stage is far more powerful.  I will have an M-stage here sometime next week to compare, but the M-stage should have larger soundstage and more detailed/clearer/open sound. 
   
  The E10 doesn't have the biggest soundstage (when running 701s), but it is nice and smooth sounding.  Most people seem to think the K701 is too bright (my Q701 _isn't _too bright IMO), so the E10 could pair well and smooth the K701 a bit. 
   
  E10 + E9 sounded brighter, more clear and open, and bigger soundstage than E10 alone.  But E10 alone is a pretty good improvement over a soundcard.


----------



## IlSol

Hi everyone, after three months of asking and lurking around I finally have decided to order the beyerdynamic dt 770 pro 80 Ohm version and the Turtle Beach dss 7.1. I still don't feel so sure, from what I see a lot of people complain about the beyers being too bass heavy whereas other people say the bass if very present but well controlled and, concerning the dss, a lot of people seem unsatisfied (I decided to go with this one rather than with the mixamp only beacause i don't need voice chat and apparently, as far as audio quality goes, they are equal). 
  Anyway I ordered them both and I am waiting for their arrival, hoping i have made a good decision (please tell me i have T___T). I am now wondering if that setup (connected to a xbox 360/macbook pro) would benefit from being hooked up to an amp. What do you think? Please bear in mind that I would like to remain in the sub-60dollars zone for this new purchase. 
  Thanks again, Nicola


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT770 Pro 80 is definitely bassy heavy, and can be downright flabby at times and drown out finer details. However, if you're looking for some movie theater like fun, the DT770 Pro 80 is just that. What they do, they do well. They aren't a particular fave of mine overall, but I'm considering repurchasing them as my fun full sized headphone, because they have the right combination of fun and comfort, and lend themselves well for the genres of music I listen to.

They would definitely benefit from amping, but they will be enoyable out of just the DSS.


----------



## IlSol

Thanks for the quick reply  yes, I was definitely looking for a movie theater like experience! As I said I'm not interested in the greatest accuracy for fps and for online competitive gaming, I'm just interested in an immersive experience for games/movies. Following your suggestion, I guess i'll just enjoy them unamped in the first period and then, if I realize I need something more, I'll come back here and ask for advice!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To me, they aren't as power hungry as they seem (I actually find the 32ohm Premium Beyers more reliant on amping). The DSS should be fine for now. Something as cheap as an E10 (or even better an E9) would further push them more, though you'd be double amping through the DSS, which is a hissy amp already.

I'm sure you will love the DT770 Pro 80. I did. I eventually found better, but they still stand as one of the best for immersion and the movie theater experience.


----------



## Triggerfish

Anyone by chance seen any price on the MMX 300 under $350?  Retailers seem to be pretty consistent at that price point.  Keeping watch around and also eying the for sale/trade section, but still need another 7 or so days till I can post a WTB there.  I'd go with the 770 and attached mic option, but it would always bug me not knowing for sure if it sounded as good and performed as well as the 300, and I would eventually break down and get the 300 anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I realize that had I kept the Schiit Lyr, I would have easily repurchased the HE4. It had more things going for it than the D7000.

1. Open ear
2. Velour pads (I really try to avoid leather/pleather if at all possible)
3. Bright and aggressive sound signature
4. Very quick but powerful bass, more audiophile-esque compared to D7000
5. Most important.... super comfortable. As much as people rave about the Denon D2/5/7K comfort, I don't find them THAT comfy. They hurt my neck, the head padding isn't much padding at all, and the pads got hot and sticky way too quickly. It makes me realize that getting the D7000 isn't in my best interest now.

The only problem with them is how ridiculously hard to drive they are. They sound good off the E9, but yes, the E9 is very much struggling with the ortho, and it clearly shows. Paired up with the Lyr, the HE4 was heavenly.

I do personally prefer the D7000, but I honestly felt the HE4 was of a higher quality sound overall.

Damn it. I wish I hadn't sold my stuff. ARGH. If the HE4 and EF5 combo was as cheap as last year, I'd go that route, maybe.

The HE-300 sounded almost absolutely ideal for me, until I read that it was a warm, smooth, and laid back headphone. That's the same thing that describes tthe ESW9 (which I absolutely hated), and the HD650 (which I haven't heard, nor would I want to).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





triggerfish said:


> Anyone by chance seen any price on the MMX 300 under $350?  Retailers seem to be pretty consistent at that price point.  Keeping watch around and also eying the for sale/trade section, but still need another 7 or so days till I can post a WTB there.  I'd go with the 770 and attached mic option, but it would always bug me not knowing for sure if it sounded as good and performed as well as the 300, and I would eventually break down and get the 300 anyway.


 

  
  It stays at the price consistently.  The only chance at getting it lower is finding refurbished ones for sale, but that is very rare.  And they don't pop up on the FS forum very often either.  I'd start looking at Dt770 premiums (MMX 300 is probably the premium 32 or 250).


----------



## applepancakes

generally, game sound effects from the engine are not eq'ed to fletcher-munson?
   
  so the ideal eq for a headphone would be to tune flat depending on the game engine/settings? if that were so, i wonder if that would be the ideal input into DH.. . guess it depends on preference/what you want emphasized eq-wise.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So after careful consideration, I took the plunge and ordered a pair of DT990 Pros. Having owned a Premium set of DT990s, I find that this would be the most logical choice for me and my needs. The Pro models have a better fit and stronger clamp, which is to my preference. Also based on friend's comments, it has a touch more bass than the premiums, and more mids, and less highs. That sounds like a winner, considering the DT990 could use less highs and more mids. I expect a slight reduction in soundstage compared to the Premiums, but still quite large.

Time will tell. These are gonna be my babies, so unless something is horribly wrong, expect a full write up on these for this thread. This is for music, movies, gaming. We shall see. I get them Tuesaday.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Time will tell. These are gonna be my babies, so unless something is horribly wrong, expect a full write up on these for this thread. This is for music, movies, gaming. We shall see. I get them Tuesaday.


 

 Looking forward your review. I loved DT990/600 for music/movies/gaming


----------



## dracogaurd

Hey, so i figured i could get a little advice from you, or something, but kinda like you, my astros a40s recently broke. The right ear would not produce any sound also. So now im stuck playing ps3 with a useless headset and a working astro mixamp. Um im just trying to find a new headset that'll work with the mixamp and not spend a whole lot of money. haha isnt everybody? xD Anyway, im not a real competive gamer, but would like to have decent sound quality but keeping some playfulness still in the headset so i can listen to music on the go. I was thinking of the SteelSeries Siberia V2, and i did read about how you did not own or try them, but any help would be...well helpful. Thanks!


----------



## rabidgamer

Sold my AD700s to a mate for £60, sad to see them go but I believe the Senn PC360 will do me well enough, until I read MLE's review of the DT990s... 
   
  I also bought 'Sennheiser X2 Gaming Headset for XBox 360' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005JVKAWS) for £17, it's like £5 more than the official xbox 360 headset, and like 75x better. Get it if you need a standard mic for when you aren't using your headphones etc.
   
  Also, HOW DO ALL OF YOU AFFORD ALL OF THIS!? I'm a student atm so it hurts even looking at some of this stuff haha... I need a proper job soon!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dracogaurd said:


> Hey, so i figured i could get a little advice from you, or something, but kinda like you, my astros a40s recently broke. The right ear would not produce any sound also. So now im stuck playing ps3 with a useless headset and a working astro mixamp. Um im just trying to find a new headset that'll work with the mixamp and not spend a whole lot of money. haha isnt everybody? xD Anyway, im not a real competive gamer, but would like to have decent sound quality but keeping some playfulness still in the headset so i can listen to music on the go. I was thinking of the SteelSeries Siberia V2, and i did read about how you did not own or try them, but any help would be...well helpful. Thanks!




Need a a headset, not a headphone, right? Honestly, all the headsets I've tried are so lackluster.... the only one I can recommend is the PC360, and if you need to save cash, the AX720 (which is comparable to the A40s), but the AX720 brings it's own amp, so I dunno if it's just overkill.


----------



## obazavil

If you need a good headset for GAMING only, get the PC360 and be happy.
   
  I just sold my K702 and DT990/600. It was a pain needing an E9 in addition to everything to just be able to chat or play single mode (I used the E9 too at work).
   
  Easy to drive cans are the way to go, unless you don't move your gear.
   
  No chat? headphones. Chat? headset 
   
  The mic-clipon was also a pain heh


----------



## Lompang

Need some help here. I play Counter-Strike 1.6 and CSS and I need some really good cans that can track footsteps clearly with great direction around 65 dollars and under. I'm not much of an audiophile, but if I'm reading clearly I'll need to have a good open sound stage to be able to achieve this.


----------



## dcm1602

Totally glad I found this thread, I was just gonna go out get a complete A40 set w/amp  and be done with it. 
   
  Ive noticed though that "most" recomendations seem to be built around people playing FPS, any recomendations for people more focused on RTS/MMOs albeit i play everything.
   
  After reading what ive read ive been leaning towards the pc360/ hd598, but im always willing to listen to those more knowledgable. Totally open to getting an amp too, esp since id like it to be useful on both pc/xbox. 
   
  And I know wired  is usually a better bang for your buck than wireless, so I dont mind all the clutter


----------



## Followthenile

Hey, first time poster here

I just learned I will get getting some k701s and a Music Streamer II as college graduation presents. Would a Music Streamer II --> Matrix M-stage or a Matrix Mini-i be a better DAC/amp solution? The Mini-i route assumes I return the MS-II. I could also go a cheaper route with a Mixamp, but I am still worried about how that will hold up with the k701s heavy amping needs outside of gaming.

Running out of terrible laptop on board with Dolby Home Theater v3, so getting a DAC is priority for me. I primarily will be watching movies and gaming (no chat needed) with some music. I also have a pair of dt770/80s and a cmoyBB to play with.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Dillweed

Hey, guys. Yet another new person at Head-Fi. Hi.
   
  So, like a lot of people, I'm trying to figure out the next audio upgrade for my (PC only) gaming setup and I'd like your feedback and/or suggestions. I'm coming from a pair of 4-year-old modded HD 555s and onboard sound on an ASUS P8P67 Pro. Basically, I'm looking for something that's a noticeable upgrade from the HD 555. If that means I have to get a sound card, a headphone amp, whatever, that's fine with me as long as it's not overly expensive to the point of ridiculousness. I'm willing to spend the money on something that will last me a long time, but I'm probably looking at "mid-grade" headphones, not the $1000+ area. I'm pretty much ignorant of anything outside of my current setup. In case it matters for selection or prices, I'm in Canada. We seem to get kind of shafted on prices for a decent number of headphones, so I figured I should mention it.
   
  Wants? My computer use is basically 90% gaming and movies/TV, with music generally being left for my MP3 player. I'm playing mostly single player and RPG/MMO games, so I'd like whatever creates the best "immersion" in the games, I guess. If the headphones are good with movies and TV, too, that would be a plus. I don't really care about competitive gaming (like multiplayer FPS) anymore, and I don't do any console gaming anymore. I think my main issues with the sound from the HD 555s is that they're kind of muffled/muddied in the lower and mid frequencies, but some of the higher high frequencies can also occasionally cause my ears pain. I guess from that description, I'm looking for overall better clarity and a slight reduction in the "harshness" of the higher frequencies?
   
  I was initially looking at headsets, but found out that there's apparently nothing in the headset market that sounds significantly better than my current HD 555s, so I gave up on that idea. I do need a microphone with decent noise-cancelling as well, but I figured I could probably just pick up a Logitech USB desktop mic or maybe an AntLion ModMic. If there are better options, please just let me know.
   
  Also, I don't know which sound card is better if my main priority is gaming and movies/TV. From what I've read, it seems like most people suggest the X-Fi Titanium HD, but there were a few mentions of the Xonar Essence STX for certain specific headphones.
   
  I'd appreciate any help here. Thanks.


----------



## Eric_C

Lemme just preface these 3 responses by saying that I don't (yet) have a MixAmp, I game in stereo, non-competitively, and that my recommendations are based on a combi of personal experience and the collective wisdom found within this thread.
  
  Quote: 





lompang said:


> Need some help here. I play Counter-Strike 1.6 and CSS and I need some really good cans that can track footsteps clearly with great direction around 65 dollars and under. I'm not much of an audiophile, but if I'm reading clearly I'll need to have a good open sound stage to be able to achieve this.


 

 Based on MLE's first post and your budget, you'll be wanting the Koss KSC-75.
   

  
  Quote: 





dcm1602 said:


> Totally glad I found this thread, I was just gonna go out get a complete A40 set w/amp  and be done with it.
> 
> Ive noticed though that "most" recomendations seem to be built around people playing FPS, any recomendations for people more focused on RTS/MMOs albeit i play everything.
> 
> ...


 

 You need a mic? Seems like it, since you considered the A40 and PC360. In that case, your best bet is to pick up a wired MixAmp and the PC360.
   
  If you don't need a mic, then HD598 with:

 MixAmp
 TurtleBeach DSS
  Obviously, the MixAmp is a more future-proof choice--it allows mic use, the DSS doesn't.

  
  Quote: 





followthenile said:


> Hey, first time poster here
> I just learned I will get getting some k701s and a Music Streamer II as college graduation presents. Would a Music Streamer II --> Matrix M-stage or a Matrix Mini-i be a better DAC/amp solution? The Mini-i route assumes I return the MS-II. I could also go a cheaper route with a Mixamp, but I am still worried about how that will hold up with the k701s heavy amping needs outside of gaming.
> Running out of terrible laptop on board, so getting a DAC is priority for me. I primarily will be watching movies and gaming (no chat needed) with some music. I also have a pair of dt770/80s and a cmoyBB to play with.
> Thanks!


 

 There's been a lot of praise for the MS-II; since it's a gift and it doesn't come that cheap, why not work with it first? I've found that, when playing a lot of single player and non-competitive multiplayer, I get more engrossed by what's happening on-screen than in my ears. Hell, I've even routed my Xbox's audio back to the TV speakers for single player--it just doesn't matter that much any more.


----------



## Eric_C

@Dilweed: See MLE's recommendation on the Beyerdynamic DT 770 (80 ohm version) on previous page. He talks about pairing it with the TurtleBeach Earforce DSS.


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> You need a mic? Seems like it, since you considered the A40 and PC360. In that case, your best bet is to pick up a wired MixAmp and the PC360.
> 
> If you don't need a mic, then HD598 with:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Outside of mic use how much of a difference is there between the mix amp/dss and same for pc360 vs hd598 
   
  Like this isn't for competitive use, purely my personal entertainment so I have no problem getting a cheap piece of **** 5$ clip on mic for pc (i already have a cheap pos mic for xbox/ps3).
   
  Basically would a DSS + HD598/PC360 give me as good (or nearly as good quality) as using the mixamp ? And same for HD598 v 360 
  .
   
  Thanks again, really preciate your input


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lemme state right now that if someone is looking for the best headphone for general purposes and is NOT a big fps gamer, I would seriously get the DT880. I don't feel even a 600ohm needs an additional amp for non-chat purposes, since the Mixamp will drive them enough for game, if you don't use voice chat. For the price, it has a sound pretty much anyone would like.


----------



## Eric_C

@cm1602: Like I said, I don't have a MixAmp, and I game in stereo. So I can't give you a comparison between MixAmp/DSS, and having not owned either PC360 or HD598, I can't advise on that too. My advice was a summary of general wisdom expressed within this thread.
   
  Your needs sound similar to Dilweed's; see my reply to him (above your post).


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lemme state right now that if someone is looking for the best headphone for general purposes and is NOT a big fps gamer, I would seriously get the DT880. I don't feel even a 600ohm needs an additional amp for non-chat purposes, since the Mixamp will drive them enough for game, if you don't use voice chat. For the price, it has a sound pretty much anyone would like.


 


  Well I dont own a Mixamp yet. I was contemplating buying a headset + an amp. I mean wouldnt something like an E7 go better with the DT880 than a Mixamp?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





dcm1602 said:


> Well I dont own a Mixamp yet. I was contemplating buying a headset + an amp. I mean wouldnt something like an E7 go better with the DT880 than a Mixamp?


 

 E7? Do you need a DAC? If your onboard audio is fine there really isn't much point getting an E7, since its strength is reputed to be its DAC and not its amp...


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> E7? Do you need a DAC? If your onboard audio is fine there really isn't much point getting an E7, since its strength is reputed to be its DAC and not its amp...


 

  
  Well I mean I have a p5q-e motherboard which is known to be higher end as far as stock onboard audio is concerned. Obviously its not as good as a nice sound card im sure


----------



## Eric_C

I dunno if you'll need a sound card or DAC; I'm of the school of thought that DAC chips tend to do their job just fine in most computers and media players. Why not pick a headphone and try it out with your current equipment first?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E7 is a very weak amp. In terms of volume, the Mixamp will drive it better for games. The bare minimum for a Beyer DT880 should be at least a Fiio E11, the E9 being much stronger.


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I dunno if you'll need a sound card or DAC; I'm of the school of thought that DAC chips tend to do their job just fine in most computers and media players. Why not pick a headphone and try it out with your current equipment first?


 


  Just gotta figure out what I can handle and what ill need first. 
   
  I mean I have no problem dropping under 400 to get a nice setup (ie a dt880 + dss/mixamp/e7 etc), but dont want to spend close to 400 and then realize i need to spend another 150 or so on a soundcard too.


----------



## Eric_C

Looks like DT880 and MixAmp. MixAmp's strong enough for the 880 according to MLE, and it can handle virtual surround which will give you the immersiveness you seek. Also allows you to connect a mic for chatting, which the DSS won't.


----------



## dcm1602

Now the biggest question of all, where can I get a good deal on a nice set of DT880s ?
   
  (and is it safe to presume that the DT 880 blow away the new MMX 300s which look very similar to it, albeit have a 5 year warranty)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the DT880/600 would beg for more than just the Mixamp, but it will sound good just by itself for GAMING. Gotta mention that the bass clips on the DT990/600 when really intense explosions occured when I used with just the Mixamp, but not the DT770/600. I'm sure the Mixamp wouldn't have a problem with the 250ohm and bassy scenes. The DT880 I owned was the 32ohm, which didn't have any issues, though it needed as much on the volume knob as the 600ohm.

I will let you guys know soon, since the DT990 Pros I'm getting are 250ohm. I will put them to the test with just the Mixamp.


----------



## Eric_C

@dcm1602: Err MMX 300 is said to be a rebadged DT *770, *which is completely different from a 880.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dcm1602 said:


> Now the biggest question of all, where can I get a good deal on a nice set of DT880s ?
> 
> (and is it safe to presume that the DT 880 blow away the new MMX 300s which look very similar to it, albeit have a 5 year warranty)




The MMX300 is a closed headphone that is basically just a DT770 32ohm with a mic. The DT880s are the best in the premium Beyers in term of overall quality and balance.

I honestly think the DT880 Pro looks better than the Premium ones. I like the black, the headband on the Pros are comfier, and they share the same grill design. I wish the DT990 Pro looked that good. The DT880 Pro is cheaper than the Premiums, and share the same drivers as the 250ohm premium DT880.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The MMX300 is a closed headphone that is basically just a DT770 32ohm with a mic. The DT880s are the best in the premium Beyers in term of overall quality and balance.
> I honestly think the DT880 Pro looks better than the Premium ones. I like the black, the headband on the Pros are comfier, and they share the same grill design. I wish the DT990 Pro looked that good. The DT880 Pro is cheaper than the Premiums, and share the same drivers as the 250ohm premium DT880.


 


  DT 880 Pro = http://www.amazon.com/BEYER-DYNAMIC-DT880-Pro-Headphones-Ohms/dp/B001B1QENY ?
  Agree 100% on the headband. I've had my Premium 880 for 2 years now, and in my country's tropical humidity I've replaced the headband twice. First with another Premium headband, and then with a Pro headband.


----------



## FreedomG

So can anyone recommend a Sound Card or AMP to go with my Q701's for gaming? PC gaming ofcourse


----------



## Dillweed

Okay, lots of questions incoming.
   
  Eric and MLE, I know you both mentioned to look into those two Beyerdynamic models, and MLE's getting a pair of DT 990s. From the little searching I did to try to find out more about them, it sounds like the DT 880 might be a better choice than the DT 770 in general for my tastes, and the DT 990 has a little more bass punch to it compared to the DT 880. Is that right? What are the differences between them? What makes better use of the DT 880 compared to the DT 990 and vice versa? Also, what difference do the various types (Premium, Pro) and impedance levels of each model make?
   
  As far as the headphone amp and replacement sound card situation goes, would the Beyers not benefit from replacing the onboard sound with a dedicated card? And, are there any specific amps I should be looking at to drive these kinds of headphones? I see you mention the Mixamp and FiiO E9 a decent amount, but it seems like the Mixamp is the lowest option you should go with. If you combined the FiiO with something like the X-Fi Titanium HD, would that cut off the ability to use the virtual surround features? Well, I guess I should ask, does the Dolby Headphone of the Xonar or CMSS-3D from the X-Fi work well with singleplayer/MMO gaming and movies, or is that generally meant for competitive gaming only?
   
  Sorry, guys. Like I said, completely ignorant here.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lompang said:


> Need some help here. I play Counter-Strike 1.6 and CSS and I need some really good cans that can track footsteps clearly with great direction around 65 dollars and under. I'm not much of an audiophile, but if I'm reading clearly I'll need to have a good open sound stage to be able to achieve this.


 
  Semi-open headphones.
  Panasonic RP-HTF600-S, with beyerdynamic EDT 200 Velour ear pads.
  Samson SR850 (made by Superlux).


----------



## googleli

Has anyone compared the Smyth Realiser with Dolby headphones such as Pioneer or Sony ones? I am planning to get a Smyth Realiser for my SR009 setup and am wondering whether the Realiser is worth its price especially for gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Okay, lots of questions incoming.
> 
> Eric and MLE, I know you both mentioned to look into those two Beyerdynamic models, and MLE's getting a pair of DT 990s. From the little searching I did to try to find out more about them, it sounds like the DT 880 might be a better choice than the DT 770 in general for my tastes, and the DT 990 has a little more bass punch to it compared to the DT 880. Is that right? What are the differences between them? What makes better use of the DT 880 compared to the DT 990 and vice versa? Also, what difference do the various types (Premium, Pro) and impedance levels of each model make?
> 
> ...


 


  http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  I would stick with the low ohm models such as the 32 ohms (definitely don't go over 250 ohms) and maybe you can save yourself from having to double amp - which in general is bad.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Has anyone compared the Smyth Realiser with Dolby headphones such as Pioneer or Sony ones? I am planning to get a Smyth Realiser for my SR009 setup and am wondering whether the Realiser is worth its price especially for gaming.


 


  LOL, SR009 for gaming?!  I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has heard it...


----------



## Rebel975

SR009 with a Smyth Realiser for gaming? I can only dream.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's too rich for my blood.

Dillweed, I'm not a PC gamer, so I honestly don't know how soundcards with virtual surround work with external amping. My logical assumption as to how Dolby Headphone works, is that it is tied in directly to the amp on the device. Meaning that you can't get Dolby Headphone alone, and so you'd have to essentially double amp to have Dolby Headphone + more power from another amp. In the case of console games, that means you'd have to attach an amp to the headphone out on the Mixamp/DSS/AX720. 

In short, the virtual surround seems to be directly tied to the amp in the device.

If this is the absolute case, whatever virtual surround has the cleanest amp portion would be ideal, since in terms of dolby headphone, they use the same DH2 virtualization, so will sound the same.

I don't know exactly how you would get Dolby Headphone from say an Essence STX soundcard, and if an amp could be connected to it outside of the headphone/speaker outs.

Double amping isn't bad in the sense that absolutely perfect audio fidelity isn't essential for gaming. I have used the HE4 with the Mixamp + Lyr to great effect. Ifyou absolutely need extra power, double amping is not the end of the world.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hey, guys. Yet another new person at Head-Fi. Hi.
> So, like a lot of people, I'm trying to figure out the next audio upgrade for my (PC only) gaming setup and I'd like your feedback and/or suggestions. I'm coming from a pair of 4-year-old modded HD 555s and onboard sound on an ASUS P8P67 Pro. Basically, I'm looking for something that's a noticeable upgrade from the HD 555. If that means I have to get a sound card, a headphone amp, whatever, that's fine with me as long as it's not overly expensive to the point of ridiculousness. I'm willing to spend the money on something that will last me a long time, but I'm probably looking at "mid-grade" headphones, not the $1000+ area. I'm pretty much ignorant of anything outside of my current setup. In case it matters for selection or prices, I'm in Canada. We seem to get kind of shafted on prices for a decent number of headphones, so I figured I should mention it.
> Wants? My computer use is basically 90% gaming and movies/TV, with music generally being left for my MP3 player. I'm playing mostly single player and RPG/MMO games, so I'd like whatever creates the best "immersion" in the games, I guess. If the headphones are good with movies and TV, too, that would be a plus. I don't really care about competitive gaming (like multiplayer FPS) anymore, and I don't do any console gaming anymore. I think my main issues with the sound from the HD 555s is that they're kind of muffled/muddied in the lower and mid frequencies, but some of the higher high frequencies can also occasionally cause my ears pain. I guess from that description, I'm looking for overall better clarity and a slight reduction in the "harshness" of the higher frequencies?
> I was initially looking at headsets, but found out that there's apparently nothing in the headset market that sounds significantly better than my current HD 555s, so I gave up on that idea. I do need a microphone with decent noise-cancelling as well, but I figured I could probably just pick up a Logitech USB desktop mic or maybe an AntLion ModMic. If there are better options, please just let me know.
> ...


 
  A decent headphone amplifier might improve the sound of the HD-555 over the motherboard's built in sound.
   
  Or get a Senn HD-558, great price at Electronics-Expo, use the coupon code BOUNTII.
   
  Creative Labs just came out with a new sound card, the Recon3D (SB1350) PCI-Express,
  comes with a headphone amplifier rated up to 600-Ohm, price is around $100.
   
  Asus Xonar DG, PCI, headphone amplifier rated up to 150-Ohm,
  Comes with Dolby Digital (Dolby Headphone), $30.
   
  The Titanium HD does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier, but is rated up to 330-Ohms.
   
  I really like my Asus Xonar Essence STX, it's $175 and $15-$25 to upgrade the 3 op-amps (operational amplifiers).
  Comes with a headphone amplifier rated up to 600-Ohms.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna add that the Mixamp 5.8 hassome hiss at high volumes, and I didn't get any more hiss or noise from a second amp.

The proper way to double amp is to max out the volume of the first amp (in this case, the Mixamp), and control the volume with the amp the headphones are attached to.

Ironically, the HE4 was dead silent on hiss/noise, even with the 5.8/Lyr. Lyr hums with everything else.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> As far as the headphone amp and replacement sound card situation goes, would the Beyers not benefit from replacing the onboard sound with a dedicated card? And, are there any specific amps I should be looking at to drive these kinds of headphones? I see you mention the Mixamp and FiiO E9 a decent amount, but it seems like the Mixamp is the lowest option you should go with. If you combined the FiiO with something like the X-Fi Titanium HD, would that cut off the ability to use the virtual surround features? Well, I guess I should ask, does the Dolby Headphone of the Xonar or CMSS-3D from the X-Fi work well with singleplayer/MMO gaming and movies, or is that generally meant for competitive gaming only?


 

 Chicolom linked you to the best thread on Beyer model comparisons, that should take care of your first para of questions.
   
  I don't think it's fair or wise to assume that replacing onboard sound with a dedicated card will always be better. It's too general a rule of thumb, and it completely ignores the ultimate, fundamental questions: What's your onboard sound chip do? What's it do well? What can a dedicated card do better, and why?
   
  As MLE has indicated, some of the Beyers aren't as picky about amping as one might think. If he says the MixAmp's enough, then the MixAmp really is likely to be enough.
   
  Combining Fiio with X-Fi will not disable virtual surround. Ditto for MixAmp and similar alternatives. If you connect:
  PC/Console > MixAmp/soundcard > Pure amp
  Then the signal processing has been done at the MixAmp/soundcard stage already. As Chicolom mentioned, however, you do want to avoid double amping.
   
  The bottomline remains the same: you probably should stick with a DT770 or 990 for immersiveness, and hook it up to a DSS or MixAmp for virtual surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eric, I get what you mean by not disabling virtual surround (anything once the signal has been processed keeps the signal), but how would you attach an amp to the Titanium? I assume it has to be through the headphone or speaker out meaning it will be double amped. I honestly don't know, because I don't use a soundcard on my PC (I use my E7 as the DAC). 

Also, I think the 880 is immersive too, but I just prefer an extra emphasis on bass, which is why I prefer the DT990. The 880 isn't bass deficient to me. That's why I gave it an 8 for fun.


----------



## googleli

Does the Mixamp have RCA output which would allow me to connect my Stax amp or Liquid Fire and get surround sound out of my SR009 and LCD3?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. It only has a 3.5mm headphone out, so you'd have to get a 3.5mm to RCA cable. This is how I did it with the Lyr to power the Ortho HE4, and it worked like a charm.

Actually, I think I had a 1/4" (6.3mm) to RCA cable, but hooked up a 3.5mm adapter to the 1/4" side.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Eric, I get what you mean by not disabling virtual surround (anything once the signal has been processed keeps the signal), but how would you attach an amp to the Titanium? I assume it has to be through the headphone or speaker out meaning it will be double amped. I honestly don't know, because I don't use a soundcard on my PC (I use my E7 as the DAC).
> Also, I think the 880 is immersive too, but I just prefer an extra emphasis on bass, which is why I prefer the DT990. The 880 isn't bass deficient to me. That's why I gave it an 8 for fun.


 


  Aye, my ignorance is showing, sorry. I was giving a super theoretical answer (sorry Dillweed) re: Titanium + amp, I don't even game on PC at all, so I wouldn't know the first thing about connecting soundcards to amps.
   
  As usual I agree with you on the Beyers. I used to EQ bass on my 880.


----------



## googleli

Thanks. Does it accept HDMI and does it have DTS HDMA and Dolby Digital True HD 7.1 decoding?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. It only has a 3.5mm headphone out, so you'd have to get a 3.5mm to RCA cable. This is how I did it with the Lyr to power the Ortho HE4, and it worked like a charm.
> Actually, I think I had a 1/4" (6.3mm) to RCA cable, but hooked up a 3.5mm adapter to the 1/4" side.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unfortunately, no. It only accepts Dolby tracks. For example, Dolby Lossless would be downconverted to Dolby Digital 5.1. This is something I hope Dolby fixes with Dolby Headphone. That or a new device that can at least accept DTS feeds and convert them.

What I mean is that the Mixamp will convert DTS feeds to some regular stereo and expands it. Its a shame, because almost all Blu Rays use DTS signals, not Dolby, so you won't get the real virtual surround. Meaning, DVDs tend to sound better off the Mixamp than Blurays, due to DVD having Dolby Digital signals.

So in the case of non Dolby signals, I'd turn off the virtual surround button on the Mixamp, unless expanded stereo doesn't bother you. I don't mind, but it does sound quite artificial in comparison to a proper Dolby Headphone signal.

Actually, I have to check, but I don't think the Mixamp even accepts DTS. I have my PS3 set to only feed it DD or 2 channel. You may not even get sound off a DTS signal. I'll check when I get home.

In any case, the Mixamp only has an optical input, so you wouldn't get lossless 5.1 anyways.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Okay, lots of questions incoming.
> Eric and MLE, I know you both mentioned to look into those two Beyerdynamic models, and MLE's getting a pair of DT 990s. From the little searching I did to try to find out more about them, it sounds like the DT 880 might be a better choice than the DT 770 in general for my tastes, and the DT 990 has a little more bass punch to it compared to the DT 880. Is that right? What are the differences between them? What makes better use of the DT 880 compared to the DT 990 and vice versa? Also, what difference do the various types (Premium, Pro) and impedance levels of each model make?
> As far as the headphone amp and replacement sound card situation goes, would the Beyers not benefit from replacing the onboard sound with a dedicated card? And, are there any specific amps I should be looking at to drive these kinds of headphones? I see you mention the Mixamp and FiiO E9 a decent amount, but it seems like the Mixamp is the lowest option you should go with. If you combined the FiiO with something like the X-Fi Titanium HD, would that cut off the ability to use the virtual surround features? Well, I guess I should ask, does the Dolby Headphone of the Xonar or CMSS-3D from the X-Fi work well with singleplayer/MMO gaming and movies, or is that generally meant for competitive gaming only?
> Sorry, guys. Like I said, completely ignorant here.


 

 Beyerdynamic DT 32-Ohm versions have the lightest bass, but easy to use with portable music/video players or on-board sound.
  On-board sound will work ok with headphones in the 25-Ohm to 60-Ohm range
  Best is to get 250-Ohm versions and a headphone amplifier.
  Premiums have a slightly lighter clamping on the head, more comfortable, more expensive.
  Pro have slightly tighter clamping force, makes better isolation in the Studio, lower price the Premium.
  DT770 closed, DT880 semi-open, DT990 open.
   
  Titanium HD does not have a dedicated headphone amplifier, but is rated up to 330-Ohms.
   
  Dolby Headphone would be better for movies (and gaming), CMSS-3D is a for FPS gaming.
   
  Once you get a sound card with a decent headphone amplifier, no reason to daisy chain a separate headphone amplifier to the sound cards headphone jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let me correct myself. The Mixamp has an optical, diigital coaxial, and RCA input. The Mixamp 5.8 has an optical input. The wired Mixamp is more robust, and if you have two consoles, you can buy an optical to digital coaxial adapter, which will have the exact same sq has the optical input. The RCA input is for something like the Wii, which has no optical out. It will convert a Dolby Pro Logic II signal to Dolby Headphone, which isn't as good as a DD 5.1 signal converted. It will sound more artficial, but still retain the good surround cues.

I myself owning the 5.8 have to disconnect the optical cable and attach another one whenever I use different systems. I tried optical splitter/switchers, but none worked properly. Oh well.


----------



## NumLock

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the 880 is immersive too, but I just prefer an extra emphasis on bass, which is why I prefer the DT990. The 880 isn't bass deficient to me. That's why I gave it an 8 for fun.


 

  
  I prefer the DT880 over the DT990 myself, and I do own both. The DT990 does have more bass but the highs get fatiguing when gaming on hours on end. They are both great though.


----------



## Dillweed

I'm still a bit confused about which Beyers would be the best option for me. It seems like the DT 880 is the most neutral of the three and has good clarity in the mids for things like vocals/voices, and the DT 990 has "brighter" highs (which can apparently cause badly recorded material's high notes to sound worse and in my case might exacerbate the sensitivity problems with the highs) and has more bass but because of that, it supposedly makes the mids sound recessed compared to the DT 880. The DT 990 also apparently has a bigger soundstage. I don't know which of the two would make for better gaming headphones, though. Impedance-wise, Zombie_X made it sound like the 600 Ohm versions would be what you should go for if you can.
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I don't think it's fair or wise to assume that replacing onboard sound with a dedicated card will always be better. It's too general a rule of thumb, and it completely ignores the ultimate, fundamental questions: What's your onboard sound chip do? What's it do well? What can a dedicated card do better, and why?


 
  Honestly, I can't answer this. All I know is the chip name (Realtek ALC892) and what its listed specs and capabilities are.
   
  PurpleAngel, from what you're saying as far as the sound card stuff goes, the Xonar would probably be the one I'd want since it has Dolby Headphone and also has a built-in headphone amp on the headphone out that's supposed to be rated for up to 600 Ohms, which I'm guessing removes the need for a separate amp. I don't know if that rated output is true and would be enough to properly drive something like the 600 Ohm versions of the Beyers, though. I've also noticed people around the web saying that they've had issues with the Xonar's drivers causing certain games to crash, because of things like the game using outdated OpenAL drivers, or the "GX" mode conflicting with the game somehow. It doesn't necessarily sound like a huge issue, but it's something that you may have to work around if it comes up.


----------



## NumLock

How much do you want to spend?
   
  As far as headphones go. It will depend on what sounds better to you.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> I'm still a bit confused about which Beyers would be the best option for me. It seems like the DT 880 is the most neutral of the three and has good clarity in the mids for things like vocals/voices, and the DT 990 has "brighter" highs (which can apparently cause badly recorded material's high notes to sound worse and in my case might exacerbate the sensitivity problems with the highs) and has more bass but because of that, it supposedly makes the mids sound recessed compared to the DT 880. The DT 990 also apparently has a bigger soundstage. I don't know which of the two would make for better gaming headphones, though. Impedance-wise, Zombie_X made it sound like the 600 Ohm versions would be what you should go for if you can.
> Honestly, I can't answer this. All I know is the chip name (Realtek ALC892) and what its listed specs and capabilities are.
> 
> PurpleAngel, from what you're saying as far as the sound card stuff goes, the Xonar would probably be the one I'd want since it has Dolby Headphone and also has a built-in headphone amp on the headphone out that's supposed to be rated for up to 600 Ohms, which I'm guessing removes the need for a separate amp. I don't know if that rated output is true and would be enough to properly drive something like the 600 Ohm versions of the Beyers, though. I've also noticed people around the web saying that they've had issues with the Xonar's drivers causing certain games to crash, because of things like the game using outdated OpenAL drivers, or the "GX" mode conflicting with the game somehow. It doesn't necessarily sound like a huge issue, but it's something that you may have to work around if it comes up.


 
  I would say to get something that's 250-Ohm, a few have said the 600-Ohm is only slightly better then the 250-Ohm.
  If you spend like $350 or more for a nice external headphone amplifier, then the 600-Ohm might be worth it.
  I can see older games from the Windows XP era would have more problems with Asus Xonars.
  Back then Creative Labs EAX 5.0 was the thing to have for gaming, Asus Xonar will use GX 2.5 to try to emulate EAX 5.0, but it's not perfect.
  Windows audio changed starting with Windows Vista/7, so the newer the game the more stable it should be with Asus Xonars.
  Game makers are less dependent on EAX for newer games, starting with Windows vista.
  I believe Asus Xonars use a 100% software driver for OpenAL.
  The Xonar audio processing chip, the C-Media CMI8788 (CMI8786 for the DG) OpenAL drivers would (guessing) be written by C-Media.
  Third party Xonar drivers (Unified Asus Drivers) only use a slightly newer OpenAL then the official Asus drivers.
  So using Unified Asus Drivers should make the OpenAL work better.
   
  I stopped using Creative Lab card around 3 or 4 years ago, last one was the Titanium (non-HD), not because of the sound quality, but the pain of fixing and reinstalling Creative drivers.
  Some have said the creative drivers have gotten better starting with the Titanium HD.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Eric, I get what you mean by not disabling virtual surround (anything once the signal has been processed keeps the signal), but how would you attach an amp to the Titanium? I assume it has to be through the headphone or speaker out meaning it will be double amped. I honestly don't know, because I don't use a soundcard on my PC (I use my E7 as the DAC).


 

 I don't think double-amping is that big of a deal, at least with the Titanium HD's RCA jacks. I mean, technically speaking, every chain that has a dedicated amp with analog input is going to be double-amped regardless.
   
  Also, will we see any gaming-specific reviews for Stax Lambda systems any time soon? Vintage ones aren't nearly as wallet-punishing as the brand new stuff, though the more affordable ones do require speaker amps to drive their bundled transformer boxes. For that matter, what about the Koss ESP/950?
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Dolby Headphone would be better for movies (and gaming), CMSS-3D is for FPS gaming.
> 
> Once you get a sound card with a decent headphone amplifier, no reason to daisy chain a separate headphone amplifier to the sound cards headphone jack.


 

 What makes you say that CMSS-3D Headphone is only better for FPS gaming, exactly? Do you think it colors the sound more, but has more precise directional imaging? (If only I had an Astro Mixamp or something so that I could answer this question for myself, because there's no way I'm going by WinDVD and foobar2000 Dolby Headphone functionality...completely irrelevant to gaming.)
   
  And as for that point for not needing a separate headphone amp for a sound card with its own headphone amp...that depends on whether or not you stick with dynamics/orthos. I don't think there's a sound card in existence with an electrostatic amplifier...


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





numlock said:


> How much do you want to spend?
> 
> As far as headphones go. It will depend on what sounds better to you.


 
  Like I said before, I don't care so much if I have to spend a decent chunk of change as long as I'm getting quality for my money. I'd really prefer to stay under the $1000 mark as much as possible, though.
   
  Unfortunately, I can't test either pair to see what they sound like. I'm in the middle of nowhere and the closest audio stores don't carry an extensive selection with brands like Beyerdynamic. If the DT 990's highs really are super pronounced, I may be better off with the DT 880 because I unfortunately do have some sensitivity to harsh tones in the higher frequencies.
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would say to get something that's 250-Ohm, a few have said the 600-Ohm is only slightly better then the 250-Ohm.
> If you spend like $350 or more for a nice external headphone amplifier, then the 600-Ohm might be worth it.


 
  Hm. Wow. Considering that's more than the headphones themselves, that's kind of an investment that doesn't necessarily seem worth it at this point. Is the Xonar just not up to the task when it comes to the extremely high impedance sets?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I don't think double-amping is that big of a deal, at least with the Titanium HD's RCA jacks. I mean, technically speaking, every chain that has a dedicated amp with analog input is going to be double-amped regardless.
> Also, will we see any gaming-specific reviews for Stax Lambda systems any time soon? Vintage ones aren't nearly as wallet-punishing as the brand new stuff, though the more affordable ones do require speaker amps to drive their bundled transformer boxes. For that matter, what about the Koss ESP/950?
> What makes you say that CMSS-3D Headphone is only better for FPS gaming, exactly? Do you think it colors the sound more, but has more precise directional imaging? (If only I had an Astro Mixamp or something so that I could answer this question for myself, because there's no way I'm going by WinDVD and foobar2000 Dolby Headphone functionality...completely irrelevant to gaming.)
> And as for that point for not needing a separate headphone amp for a sound card with its own headphone amp...that depends on whether or not you stick with dynamics/orthos. I don't think there's a sound card in existence with an electrostatic amplifier...


 
  I miss spoke, the CMSS-3D is a little better then the Xonars (Dolby Headphone) for FPS.
  It's the only "fact" I know that I can say about the Creative cards verses Xonars for FPS gaming.
  I can not give any informed opinion about any other advantages the Creative verses Xonar for gaming.
  I am biased toward the Xonars.
  I should has said the Xonar's Dolby Headphone is great for movies and helps with some games.
  Some gamers have said setting the game's audio to "Theater Cinema" (if it has that setting)
  helps the best for Xonar cards and to me the term "Theater Cinema" sound close to something to do with Dolby Digital.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Like I said before, I don't care so much if I have to spend a decent chunk of change as long as I'm getting quality for my money. I'd really prefer to stay under the $1000 mark as much as possible, though.
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't test either pair to see what they sound like. I'm in the middle of nowhere and the closest audio stores don't carry an extensive selection with brands like Beyerdynamic. If the DT 990's highs really are super pronounced, I may be better off with the DT 880 because I unfortunately do have some sensitivity to harsh tones in the higher frequencies.
> 
> Hm. Wow. Considering that's more than the headphones themselves, that's kind of an investment that doesn't necessarily seem worth it at this point. Is the Xonar just not up to the task when it comes to the extremely high impedance sets?


 
  I believe the Xonar Essence STX (& ST) are as good for powering headphones as any main stream sound card, up to the $200 range.
  Not sure how many people have used the STX with different models of 600-Ohm headphones, so limited feedback.
  Onkyo makes a great sound card for $400 dollars, but I'm sure they do not sell that many.
  Most add on sound cards are bought for gaming, most gamers will buy a 32-Ohm $50 headphones for gaming.
  Gamers in the 10-20 year old range will not have lots of extra cash for buying gaming gear.
  So selling 250-Ohm headphones to gamers is a limited market, 600-Ohms way more limited.
  The Xonars really started out as great sound cards for movies on the computer, most if not all DVD movies use Dolby Digital 5.1.
  Gaming is more a secondary function for the Xonars as Creative Labs will not license out EAX 5.0 for use on the audio processors that the Xonar's use.
  Starting with Windows Vista, it made it easier for game makers to be less dependent on EAX.
  The first Xonars did not come with dedicated headphone amplifiers.
  The later Xonars came with a TI (Texas Instruments) headphone amplifier rated up to 600-Ohm,
  which I've heard is a great and well liked headphone amplifier chip in the audio field.
   
  Anyway
  So as I see, 600-Ohm headphones are really for music (stereo 2.0 channel) lovers who will spend $300 to $1000 (or more) on a dedicated external (tube?) headphone amplifier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, the difference between the different ohm models of the same Beyer headphones is severely blown out of proportion here. The few friends that I know have tested the same headphone models with different ohm ratings have stated that they sound too close to one another and that you should buy one based on functionality instead of going by the typical "OMGZ 600ohm ONLIES PLZ" mentality of head-fi. 

For someone who isn't gonna use an external or powerful amp, I'd go with the 250ohms.

Also, to those sensitive to piercing treble, definitely skip the DT990s. They are very sharp. VERY. The DT880s are sharp in the treble too, but not like the 990s. A master blacksmith would be impressed, lol.


----------



## Dillweed

Okay. Thanks for the help, guys. I think for now, I'll look into finding myself a pair of DT 880s. Hopefully the treble isn't too overpowering for my ears, because I wouldn't know where to go from there. You have any opinions on the Pro versus Premium versions of the DT 880?
   
  Still trying to figure out the sound card situation, because there are conflicting opinions across the web about which virtual surround is better, which out of the Xonar Essence and Titanium HD actually has the better sound for movies and games (although there actually seems to be pretty strong support for the Titanium HD), etc. Price-wise, the Titanium HD's around $30 less than the cheapest I can find the Xonar Essence. There are a few valid complaints about the Xonar, too, like the driver issues I mentioned earlier, along with things like a slight lack in the ease of usability in the software (having to manually select the number of audio channels for each movie?). You can also upgrade the op amps on either to help change the sound, but that's way beyond my realm of knowledge.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro vs Premium should be identical in sound except that the Pro brings the drivers closer to your ears so you may get an extra amount of bass (subtle), and slightly smaller soundstage. Talking about maybe 5% difference.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Okay. Thanks for the help, guys. I think for now, I'll look into finding myself a pair of DT 880s. Hopefully the treble isn't too overpowering for my ears, because I wouldn't know where to go from there. You have any opinions on the Pro versus Premium versions of the DT 880?
> Still trying to figure out the sound card situation, because there are conflicting opinions across the web about which virtual surround is better, which out of the Xonar Essence and Titanium HD actually has the better sound for movies and games (although there actually seems to be pretty strong support for the Titanium HD), etc. Price-wise, the Titanium HD's around $30 less than the cheapest I can find the Xonar Essence. There are a few valid complaints about the Xonar, too, like the driver issues I mentioned earlier, along with things like a slight lack in the ease of usability in the software (having to manually select the number of audio channels for each movie?). You can also upgrade the op amps on either to help change the sound, but that's way beyond my realm of knowledge.


 
  Sometimes the Titanium HD will go on sale with a mail in rebate, final price is around $100.
  Creatives new sound card, the Recon3D (SB1350) PCI-Express sound card just came out three days ago
  Comes with a dedicated headphone amplifier.
  Priced around $100.
   
  Beyerdynamic Pros have slightly tighter clamping force, better seal for working in a studio.
  Premiums have a slightly lighter clamping force, little more comfortable, more expensive then Pros.
  The comfort of my two Beyer Pros is just fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I personally find the Pros more comfortable. The headband, the clamp force makes it more secure on my head (meaning less shift).


----------



## dcm1602

Mad where were those clip on mics you recommended ?  I remember seeing them buried somewhere earlier but cant seem to find them.
   
  If you could recomend one or 2 much preciated


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080

They are super cheap, sound great, but they will take like a month to get to your home.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Unfortunately, no. It only accepts Dolby tracks. For example, Dolby Lossless would be downconverted to Dolby Digital 5.1. This is something I hope Dolby fixes with Dolby Headphone. That or a new device that can at least accept DTS feeds and convert them.
> What I mean is that the Mixamp will convert DTS feeds to some regular stereo and expands it. Its a shame, because almost all Blu Rays use DTS signals, not Dolby, so you won't get the real virtual surround. Meaning, DVDs tend to sound better off the Mixamp than Blurays, due to DVD having Dolby Digital signals.
> So in the case of non Dolby signals, I'd turn off the virtual surround button on the Mixamp, unless expanded stereo doesn't bother you. I don't mind, but it does sound quite artificial in comparison to a proper Dolby Headphone signal.
> *Actually, I have to check, but I don't think the Mixamp even accepts DTS. I have my PS3 set to only feed it DD or 2 channel. You may not even get sound off a DTS signal. I'll check when I get home.*
> In any case, the Mixamp only has an optical input, so you wouldn't get lossless 5.1 anyways.


 

 Just wanted to confirm, the mixamp definitely does not accept DTS signals.  You will get no sound at all when feeding the mixamp DTS. It has no trouble passing the signal through however, as I feed my receiver DTS signals passed through the mixamp all the time.  I'm referring to the wireless 5.8 mixamp, no idea how the wired version handles this.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired is the same (owned it prior top getting the 5.8). Thanks for the confirmation. Forgot to check, lol.


----------



## Dillweed

Okay, I realize it's probably a bit foolish, unneeded, and likely won't make a *huge* difference in the sound, but does anybody know what it would actually take to hook up the 600-Ohm DT 880s to something like the X-Fi Titanium HD and still be able to use the CMSS-3D? I'm mainly just curious what extra equipment and cost it would require. If it would basically just mean buying a good amp, I think I could justify the extra cost by knowing that I could re-use it should I decide to upgrade again in the future.


----------



## googleli

I have just placed order for the Smyth Realiser. When my BHSE comes, my ultimate music / gaming / movie headphone system will be done:
   
  Esoteric K-01 / Oppo 95 Bluray Player / Xbox 360 / PS3 / PC with i7 920 o/c 4GHz with GTX580 2-way SLi 
  -> Pioneer SC-LX85 Flagship AV Receiver
  -> Smyth Realiser
  -> Blue Hawaii Special Edition
  -> SR009 (plus SVS PC13 Ultra subwoofer for gaming and movies).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Okay, I realize it's probably a bit foolish, unneeded, and likely won't make a *huge* difference in the sound, but does anybody know what it would actually take to hook up the 600-Ohm DT 880s to something like the X-Fi Titanium HD and still be able to use the CMSS-3D? I'm mainly just curious what extra equipment and cost it would require. If it would basically just mean buying a good amp, I think I could justify the extra cost by knowing that I could re-use it should I decide to upgrade again in the future.


 

 All you need is an amp. CMSS-3D Headphone works over the RCA outputs, and it probably still works over S/PDIF.
   
  As for which amp, that's not a question I can answer, at least not for a 600-ohm headphone.
  
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> I have just placed order for the Smyth Realiser. When my BHSE comes, my ultimate music / gaming / movie headphone system will be done:
> 
> Esoteric K-01 / Oppo 95 Bluray Player / Xbox 360 / PS3 / PC with i7 920 o/c 4GHz with GTX580 2-way SLi
> -> Pioneer SC-LX85 Flagship AV Receiver
> ...


 

 I'm envying your wallet right now...but at least you won't have to upgrade your audio system for a long time, if ever.
   
  The only thing I'd add is an Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD for the sole purpose of being an EAX DSP (I'd opt for a cheaper card if there were any with HDMI), but if you don't play any games that use EAX or hardware-accelerated audio in general, it would be a waste of money and a PCIe slot.
   
  Also, I see I'm not the only one around who's had the Stax + subwoofer idea...but I currently lack the budget to actually execute that idea.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





googleli said:


> I have just placed order for the Smyth Realiser. When my BHSE comes, my ultimate music / gaming / movie headphone system will be done:
> 
> Esoteric K-01 / Oppo 95 Bluray Player / Xbox 360 / PS3 / PC with i7 920 o/c 4GHz with GTX580 2-way SLi
> -> Pioneer SC-LX85 Flagship AV Receiver
> ...


 
   
   
  Ridiculous.  I can only dream of having a single one of those items  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If you threw your wallet at me, it would probably shatter most of my skeletal system


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> All you need is an amp. CMSS-3D Headphone works over the RCA outputs, and it probably still works over S/PDIF.
> 
> As for which amp, that's not a question I can answer, at least not for a 600-ohm headphone.


 
  If it's seriously that simple, then I'll likely just get the 600-Ohm set and an amp to power them. I did find the "DT 880 600 Ohm" thread and am slowly making my way through it. There are a lot of suggestions for amps in there, with the general idea being that the DT 880s work better with tube amps.


----------



## obazavil

I just read,
   
  Seems Smyth Realiser is like Beyerdynamic Headzone Game Headset.
   
  However, I don't find any information on Smyth regarding DTS or Dolby


----------



## NumLock

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Like I said before, I don't care so much if I have to spend a decent chunk of change as long as I'm getting quality for my money. I'd really prefer to stay under the $1000 mark as much as possible, though.


 
  Do what I did then: X-Fi > optical > DAC > Amp
  That way you don't have to double amp. Just pick an Amp and DAC that suites your taste in music/genre.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





numlock said:


> Do what I did then: X-Fi > optical > DAC > Amp
> That way you don't have to double amp. Just pick an Amp and DAC that suites your taste in music/genre.


 


  That's a fair amount of extra gear and cash. Imho, Dillweed, you're better off just getting cans that work well straight out of the X-Fi.


----------



## NumLock

Well he said $1,000.


----------



## Eric_C

Oh that's true. I take it back then! Dillweed should spend more more more!


----------



## Dillweed

I know, I know, it's more than is necessary. It's the first upgrade I've decided to make to my audio setup in almost 5 years, so I don't feel as bad about spending some extra. Plus, this is basically like my Christmas present. To me. From myself...
  
  Quote: 





numlock said:


> Do what I did then: X-Fi > optical > DAC > Amp
> That way you don't have to double amp. Just pick an Amp and DAC that suites your taste in music/genre.


 
  Alright, I'm still learning the terminology and technology behind how this hardware all works, but from the way you guys have mentioned this here and a couple pages back, I'm guessing that not only the Headphone Out is amplified, the RCA Line Out ports on the sound card are also amplified, which is why it would be double amped if you used them? If that's the case and it's something you should avoid if possible, then I guess the sound card would basically just become a game/surround effects/digital signal processor in the chain if you replace its DAC functions with an external DAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. An external DAC will take all duties from the soundcard, rendering it useless. No way to get around double amping. Its not an issue people make it out to be.


----------



## Eric_C

Ok, hang on. We need to clarify some points:

 RCA ports are usually unamped
 Line Out ports are, by definition, unamped. Some exceptions, but "Line" refers to the signal being "line level", which at the very least means you can't adjust the volume on the device where the Line Out port sits. E.g. iPods have a Line Out Dock, which disables volume control on the iPod when used.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not always true though. For example, the Lyr's RCA output is pre-amped. I don't remember if it was volume controlled though, but I do remember that it wasn't an untouched bypass.

My assumption of a soundcard with virtual surround is that you either have to use the headphone jack to get the processing, or the outputs on the back are pre-outs.

I honestly can't confirm and would like someone with one of these soundcards to clarify whether the virtual surround is kept through line outs (I bet my money it won't). By definition, a lineout is untouched signal.


----------



## MustangVxD

I've been seriously considering getting an Astro mixamp 5.8 and a nice set of headphones (up to $550).  I don't have a lot of experience in high end headphones, but I have owned Westone UM1's and currently have a set of Westone 3's.  In addition I have also looked into purchasing a portable headphone amp  (emmeline p-51 mustang for example), but I always seem to have other things that are more important to spend my money on.
  
 This is my current receiver:
 http://nadelectronics.com/products/av-receivers/T-747-A/V-Surround-Sound-Receiver
  
 In addition I have a PS3 to play games such as modern warfare/bioshock/MK9, and I use PS3 media server to stream music from my laptop.  I am also moving all of my movies and music to an eternal harddrive enclosed in a thermaltake case that will run through my oppo bdp93 http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-93/ via Esata.
  
 Musically I mainly listen to electronica, industrial, rock, metal, mixed in with some Madonna, Roger Waters, Floyd, Beck, Phish
  
 *Now...for the future.*
  
 My current budget is around 350$, but I may have a way to get a pair of $550 headphones at the same cost so I need a few opinions at both price levels.
  
 I plan on using a clip on mic for gaming rather than getting the beyerdynamic mmx300.
  
 I would like to be able to listen to movies, and music with the astro mixamp while doing other projects in the house, but if I can't get the most out of the headphones because of the limitations of the Mixamp (which I have read in a few threads) I would much rather have it wired to my NAD reciever.  I will more likely be stationary, but the idea of moving around the house while listening to music is a plus.
  
 The ability to produce positional effects will also be important for Ps3 gaming, and computer gaming (Counter-strike Source)
  
 I want these headphones to be able to handle the explosion at the end of the song "late home tonight pt.1 from Roger Waters album Amused to Death.  I have the album via vinyl rip and the Gold cd pressing in FLAC.
  
 I would prefer that the sound not leak from the headphones so I don't disturb others if I use them in public or around family members, but if that will degrade the audio quality i'm willing to be "forever alone"
  
 Someone please point me in a few directions.  If there are some reviews/websites that people have used to make a decision I would love to see them.
  
 ***one of the other reasons that I would prefer to go wireless is that I have two 100 lb. dobermans that get to running around downstairs where the home theater is and I don't want them running through the cord that is extended from the reciever, thereby damaging the wired connections.  I know that some have detachable cables (that could be replace) but I'm leery of possible problems with loose attachment/connection***
  
 Leaning toward Beyerdynamic dt880, but i've seen opinions that it doesn't work well with the Astro Mixamp is this true?
 If I did get the Astro Mixamp 5.8 which ohm version should I get?
 Since the 880 is partially open will it create any problems with a mic?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mustangvxd said:


> *The reason for the title of this thread* is that I want these headphones to be able to handle the explosion at the end of the song.  I have the album via vinyl rip and the Gold cd pressing in FLAC.


 

  Uh, what?
   
   
   
  Quote: 





> Since the 880 is partially open will it create any problems with a mic?


 
   
  What kinds of problems are you anticipating? I game online semi-regularly with my 880, so maybe I can answer your question.


----------



## NumLock

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> I'm guessing that not only the Headphone Out is amplified, the RCA Line Out ports on the sound card are also amplified, which is why it would be double amped if you used them? If that's the case and it's something you should avoid if possible, then I guess the sound card would basically just become a game/surround effects/digital signal processor in the chain if you replace its DAC functions with an external DAC.


 
  Everything is amped(3.5mm jacks) except optical. No RCA.(from my experience with several X-Fi cards)
  Yes, the only duties my sound card sees is surround sound processing and sending that info over optical.
  
   

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. An external DAC will take all duties from the soundcard, rendering it useless.


 
  Wrong in the case of X-Fi. I can't confirm the Zonar though.
  
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I honestly can't confirm and would like someone with one of these soundcards to clarify whether the virtual surround is kept through line outs (I bet my money it won't). By definition, a lineout is untouched signal.


 
  Optical is the only true line out. You have the option of leaving the signal untouched/pass-through or have the card do all the processing and then it gets sent to what ever is on the other end of the optical cable. In my case, an external DAC
   
  There are no RCA jacks. Only 3.5mm headphone/speakers jacks that are connected to the cards amp. All controlled by the PC/soundcard volume, no true line out.


----------



## MustangVxD

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Uh, what?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mustangvxd said:


> I wasn't sure if the "semi-open" nature of this set would be picked up by the mic.  I've come across some reference to this in the multitudes of review/comparison threads I have looked through.


 

 Sorry, unless you can refer to a specific mic and its settings I can't predict this with that much accuracy...
  I use my 880 while playing Xbox. My mic is the wired headset that came with the Xbox (I have it around my neck, with the mic pointing straight up a short distance from my mouth). None of my friends have complained about the mic picking up headphone sound.
   
  If a mic picked up headphone noise, that should trigger a feedback loop, which would be pretty obvious pretty quick. It's never happened.


----------



## NumLock

I can also confirm no feedback from my DT880 and Zalman clip-on mic.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Hi there, looking for some good gaming cans (soundstage, sound quality, bass)  to go with a good sound card!
   
  Right now I picked up some xb500s from best buy and i like them, but for pc gaming, the soundstage is quite small since its a "very in your face sound".
   
  Would you consider the dt770s or hfi 580 as a major upgrade from the xb500s? (triple the cost of the xb500's) theres also the xb700 but i dont know how those compare to the dt770 or hfi 580, thanks again!
   
  It's not for competitive gaming, it's for just being able to tell where the zombies are coming from wether its from above, or which side, thanks!
   
  Priorities:
  1. Hopefully, *not much* Bass lost from the xb500's obviously it wont be the same or more bass for more quality, that'd be pretty imposible 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  2. Soundstage, dosent have to be huge, just be able to more or less picture the people/zombies and where they are at. (FPS)
  3. Immersion, a "full" sound, for MMO's or other games that are not FPS.
  4. Quality upgrade from the xb500's.
   
  Someone said this, wanted your opinion on it: " I do have a Cowon X7 which has some fairly impressive bass boosting capabilities, and I can get way more bass (while retaining good SQ) out of my HFI-780 with it than I can with my XB-500 + iPod. "
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Dillweed

Okay, need to clarify something here.
  
  Quote: 





numlock said:


> Everything is amped(3.5mm jacks) except optical. No RCA.(from my experience with several X-Fi cards)
> Yes, the only duties my sound card sees is surround sound processing and sending that info over optical.
> 
> Optical is the only true line out. You have the option of leaving the signal untouched/pass-through or have the card do all the processing and then it gets sent to what ever is on the other end of the optical cable. In my case, an external DAC
> ...


 
  Are you talking about a different model from the X-Fi line? Because the Titanium HD has four RCA-style jacks on the back, two of which are also combination RCA/optical jacks. It uses RCA for the Line Out and Line In/Optical In and Out combo jacks. It only has 3.5mm jacks for the headphone and mic.


----------



## IlSol

My dt 770 pro 80 ohm order has been delayed and the online shop gave me the opportunity to cancel that order and buy the immediately available dt 990 pro 250 ohm for the same price. Which of the two will sound better out of my xbox 360+dss setup without having to add an amp?? Thanks again!


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> My dt 770 pro 80 ohm order has been delayed and the online shop gave me the opportunity to cancel that order and buy the immediately available dt 990 pro 250 ohm for the same price. Which of the two will sound better out of my xbox 360+dss setup without having to add an amp?? Thanks again!


 


  Withought an amp? Its obvious the dt770s, they are much easier to drive and have a lot more bass (obviously, they are closed) , get the dt 990 pro which are great and kick the 770's ass in quality and clarity and if you dont crave such a huge bass as in the xb500s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't say the DT770 Pro 80 has a LOT more bass. It has more but the DT990 is still bass heavy, but spanks the DT770 in terms of quality of bass, soundstage, and clarity.

The DT770 Pro is easier to drive by a bit.


----------



## IlSol

I'm buying these headphones to play mainly offline, and I'm looking for a very immersive experience for movies and games. This is the the main goal. Regarding the music i listen to, i like bass but a good amount of it. i would like to get a good all-rounder pair of headphones (i listen mainly to '70s-'80s rock music and blues) without having the need to add other cash for an amp in the near future..


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't say the DT770 Pro 80 has a LOT more bass. It has more but the DT990 is still bass heavy, but spanks the DT770 in terms of quality of bass, soundstage, and clarity.
> The DT770 Pro is easier to drive by a bit.


 


  Answer my post please?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I will be getting the DT990s in today and will see how well the Mixamp drives them compared to attaching an amp. Just give me a little time. This is the first 250ohm Beyer I'm personally testing. Offline, the 32ohm Beyers work great. 

The 600ohm sounds similar but may distort and clip during heavy bass, such as deep explosions without an added amp. I'm hoping the 250ohm plays nicely with the Mixamp, which I believe it will. Just a few more hours. The wait is killing me.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> I'm buying these headphones to play mainly offline, and I'm looking for a very immersive experience for movies and games. This is the the main goal. Regarding the music i listen to, i like bass but a good amount of it. i would like to get a good all-rounder pair of headphones (i listen mainly to '70s-'80s rock music and blues) without having the need to add other cash for an amp in the near future..


 


  Everything you need is done greatly by the DT990 Pros and they are 100 bucks cheaper than the premiums, they are only 160~ BUT you *will* need a decent amp! whichi will cost you about 100, like the fiio e9, if not, just get the premium 32ohm version which is at 320 bucks or so on amazon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have entertained you plenty already, and gave you my recommendations via pm, which work for gaming too. You ask ,and ask, and ask, and even with recommendations, you keep stacking questions upon questions. My head hurts.

And he may not NEED an extra amp, as he is playing offline, meaning the Mixamp/DSS would be fully powering game audio, instead of splitting power between game audio and voice chat, which is where the Mixamp can't really handle the Beyers (even the 32ohm felt too weak). I assume the DSS is a little stronger in amping and doesn't ever power voice chat, so the Beyers would be fine without an additional amp.


----------



## NumLock

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Okay, need to clarify something here.
> 
> Are you talking about a different model from the X-Fi line? Because the Titanium HD has four RCA-style jacks on the back, two of which are also combination RCA/optical jacks. It uses RCA for the Line Out and Line In/Optical In and Out combo jacks. It only has 3.5mm jacks for the headphone and mic.


 

 Oh wow I didn't even realize that. I stand corrected. I had a X-Fi Titanium "non-HD" so it didn't have those connectors.


----------



## Dillweed

Ah, alright. I thought that might be the case. So, I guess NamelessPFG was right and I should just need an amp?


----------



## NumLock

Looks that way.


----------



## ineedmorebase

You should get a Zo2 and see how good it is


----------



## Jae304

ZO2 plays real nice with the mixamp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 -- but my cans aren't hard to drive either.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> ZO2 plays real nice with the mixamp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  OP thinks the Zo2 is not much more than a gimmick, what do you think of it?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. An external DAC will take all duties from the soundcard, rendering it useless.


 

 An external DAC may bypass the sound card's analog stage, but it sure isn't bypassing the sound card's DSP.
   
  The question is what DSP effects will the sound card permit you to apply to S/PDIF-streamed audio. Xonar cards (possibly other C-Media-based cards as well) allegedly won't allow Dolby Headphone to be applied in this manner, but X-Fi cards will apply CMSS-3D Headphone and in-game EAX effects to S/PDIF streams, at least in theory.
   
  I'm looking at picking up a cheap external DAC/DSP tomorrow and seeing how that works out. It's more for the consoles than anything, but it'll allow me to verify once and for all how X-Fi cards behave with S/PDIF output.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ZO2 is a glorified equalizer. For headphones that don't need EQ, it is worthless. I've seen the charts. It doesn't help headphones with already pronounced areas in the spectrum. Overkill. I could see it working for balanced cans like the PC360 that doesn't have a pronounced ANYTHING, but it also makes it lose that balance that makes them special.

Unless others see themselves using bass boosts and eq, its unnecessary.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The ZO2 is a glorified equalizer. For headphones that don't need EQ, it is worthless. I've seen the charts. It doesn't help headphones with already pronounced areas in the spectrum. Overkill. I could see it working for balanced cans like the PC360 that doesn't have a pronounced ANYTHING, but it also makes it lose that balance that makes them special.
> Unless others see themselves using bass boosts and eq, its unnecessary.


 

 Sounds like you haven't tested it yourself and making guesses, it boosts the whole frequency range evenly (at the lowest setting) which doesn't result in pronounced areas getting more pronounced (as it's all about the balance of the frequencies), it results in a more dynamic/forward sound though but it won't make a bright headphone brighter. Plus it also enhances the soundstage/imaging/positioning, call it whatever you like slightly and does improve bass response quality except just making it stronger. So yes it's not useless even for a perfectly balanced headphone but it depends if you like forward/dynamic sound or not I suppose, most people seem to do but perhaps not those who really love a more relaxed / laid-back sound signature. ZO makes the music or gaming more engaging, you cannot sit still in your chair when enjoying your favorite music, you have to move along with it!


----------



## azncookiecutter

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> An external DAC may bypass the sound card's analog stage, but it sure isn't bypassing the sound card's DSP.
> 
> The question is what DSP effects will the sound card permit you to apply to S/PDIF-streamed audio. Xonar cards (possibly other C-Media-based cards as well) allegedly won't allow Dolby Headphone to be applied in this manner, but X-Fi cards will apply CMSS-3D Headphone and in-game EAX effects to S/PDIF streams, at least in theory.
> 
> I'm looking at picking up a cheap external DAC/DSP tomorrow and seeing how that works out. It's more for the consoles than anything, but it'll allow me to verify once and for all how X-Fi cards behave with S/PDIF output.


 


  Actually, I've had the opposite experience. I can easily set the Xonar D1 (PCI version of the DX) to output Dolby Headphone with SPDIF, but not with the X-Fi.


----------



## Naingolann

Hey guys, I'm glad I found this awesome thread. It's been very, very helpful!
   
  So, I'm switching from Senn555 to Beyer990 250ohm, which I just ordered. I play on my PS3 (mostly singleplayer) and currently amping my Senn with an Ear Force DSS.
  Will I need an extra amp for the Beyer? If so, I already have a FiiO E7...I wonder if that'll do the trick. What do you guys think? And how do I connect all the stuff together?
   
  Thanks in advance!


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The ZO2 is a glorified equalizer. For headphones that don't need EQ, it is worthless. I've seen the charts. It doesn't help headphones with already pronounced areas in the spectrum. Overkill. I could see it working for balanced cans like the PC360 that doesn't have a pronounced ANYTHING, but it also makes it lose that balance that makes them special.
> Unless others see themselves using bass boosts and eq, its unnecessary.


 


   


  Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Sounds like you haven't tested it yourself and making guesses, it boosts the whole frequency range evenly (at the lowest setting) which doesn't result in pronounced areas getting more pronounced (as it's all about the balance of the frequencies), it results in a more dynamic/forward sound though but it won't make a bright headphone brighter. Plus it also enhances the soundstage/imaging/positioning, call it whatever you like slightly and does improve bass response quality except just making it stronger. So yes it's not useless even for a perfectly balanced headphone but it depends if you like forward/dynamic sound or not I suppose, most people seem to do but perhaps not those who really love a more relaxed / laid-back sound signature. ZO makes the music or gaming more engaging, you cannot sit still in your chair when enjoying your favorite music, you have to move along with it!


 


  So basically, adding a Zo2 will make for a funner listening experience no matter what ?


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Hey guys, I'm glad I found this awesome thread. It's been very, very helpful!
> 
> So, I'm switching from Senn555 to Beyer990 250ohm, which I just ordered. I play on my PS3 (mostly singleplayer) and currently amping my Senn with an Ear Force DSS.
> Will I need an extra amp for the Beyer? If so, I already have a FiiO7...I wonder if that'll do the trick. What do you guys think? And how do I connect all the stuff together?
> ...


 


  fiio e7? add the e9, itl power them in ways the e7 cant, since its kind of made for less impedance headphones since its portable too..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guess what guys, got my DT990 Pros!

Jesus Christ. These things pack a wallop like any closed headphone. There's absolutely no way I could see anyone being disappointed by it's bass. It is VERY bassy.

It's very slightly bassier than the DT990/600, and slightly slower, so the bass lingers longer much like a closed headphone. 

Due to it's bassier sound, the treble peak is lessened, and the mids are less recessed. The treble is still quite sharp, but more tolerable than the Premiums. The differennces are very minute though. It's there, just enouggh to notice that it's not the same exact sound.

Looks like I don't have a desire to replace these. I'm very happy.



rpgwizard said:


> Sounds like you haven't tested it yourself and making guesses, it boosts the whole frequency range evenly (at the lowest setting) which doesn't result in pronounced areas getting more pronounced (as it's all about the balance of the frequencies), it results in a more dynamic/forward sound though but it won't make a bright headphone brighter. Plus it also enhances the soundstage/imaging/positioning, call it whatever you like slightly and does improve bass response quality except just making it stronger. So yes it's not useless even for a perfectly balanced headphone but it depends if you like forward/dynamic sound or not I suppose, most people seem to do but perhaps not those who really love a more relaxed / laid-back sound signature. ZO makes the music or gaming more engaging, you cannot sit still in your chair when enjoying your favorite music, you have to move along with it!




That makes absolutely no sense. I already know it boosts the whole frequency range. What do you think that would do to the DT990's already ridiculously peaky treble? Please go ahead and say it doesn't make it peakier than it already is. 

You don't have to try it out. By the graphs, it's blatantly obvious that boosting it higher than it is would be bad news for certain headphones.

Of course for laid back headphones, it would be beneficial. Never said otherwise.

However, as stated before, there are plenty of people who don't like to alter the signature of their headphones. I'm one of them, other than altering the sound of horrible headphones like the XB500. Though that needs a a bass reduction, not a bass boost.


----------



## Evarin

Hey MLE, great to see you taking an active roll in this thread again. I'm looking to get a pair of closed cans so I can use them in the library and what not. I've heard you personally say the DT770's aren't all that great. What would be your optimal choice for a closed set of headphones? If they destroy the PC 360's, I may bother to use them but otherwise these will purely be for music listening. If an amp is required, i'd like to hear your opinion on that as well.
   
  Anyone else can chime in too, i'm just the most familiar with MLE's taste in music due to this thread.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Hey guys, I'm glad I found this awesome thread. It's been very, very helpful!
> 
> So, I'm switching from Senn555 to Beyer990 250ohm, which I just ordered. I play on my PS3 (mostly singleplayer) and currently amping my Senn with an Ear Force DSS.
> Will I need an extra amp for the Beyer? If so, I already have a FiiO E7...I wonder if that'll do the trick. What do you guys think? And how do I connect all the stuff together?
> ...


 

 I don't think you will need an extra amp for 250Ohms headphones.
   
  if you want it anyway, it must not be E7, it should be E9 instead. Amping section on E7 is pretty weak


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evarin said:


> Hey MLE, great to see you taking an active roll in this thread again. I'm looking to get a pair of closed cans so I can use them in the library and what not. I've heard you personally say the DT770's aren't all that great. What would be your optimal choice for a closed set of headphones? If they destroy the PC 360's, I may bother to use them but otherwise these will purely be for music listening. If an amp is required, i'd like to hear your opinion on that as well.
> 
> Anyone else can chime in too, i'm just the most familiar with MLE's taste in music due to this thread.




I wouldn't say the DT770 aren't all that great, just that for a few dollars more, you can have better. I'd personally choose the D2000 first, if it's anything like the D7000. Considering the Creative Aurvana Live is pretty much a slightly improved D1001, and I find the CAL to be comparable to the DT770 Pro 80, it would make sense to hold out for some D2000s.
If it wasn't for the fact that I really don't want a pair of cans with leather/pleather pads, the D2000 would be in my house right now.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> However, as stated before, there are plenty of people who don't like to alter the signature of their headphones. I'm one of them, other than altering the_* sound of horrible headphones like the XB500. *_Though that needs a a bass reduction, not a bass boost.


 


  Horibble headphones? I picked them up yesterday plugegd them into my iphone 4, got into the ipod eq settings and put it on bass booster, with Say it right by nelly furtado 320 bitrate, and *came*.
   
  Sounds reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally good! bass is greeeat <3 vocals are quite nice and up front, i gotta say, i LOVE THEM with this song, i implore you to hear that song with the dt990s pros, the bassline at the start will make you say ..........*drool* if it dosent, dt 990 pros are not basshead phones ;D Here ya go:
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JnGBs88sL0


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't say the DT770 aren't all that great, just that for a few dollars more, you can have better. I'd personally choose the D2000 first, if it's anything like the D7000. Considering the Creative Aurvana Live is pretty much a slightly improved D1001, and I find the CAL to be comparable to the DT770 Pro 80, it would make sense to hold out for some D2000s.
> If it wasn't for the fact that I really don't want a pair of cans with leather/pleather pads, the D2000 would be in my house right now.


 


  Interesting. I'm being lazy here and assuming that the D5k's and the D7k's aren't closed sets? With the D2k's, what, if anything would you use to power them? I'm looking to use a portable amp, not something I have to leave on a table.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Interesting. I'm being lazy here and assuming that the D5k's and the D7k's aren't closed sets? With the D2k's, what, if anything would you use to power them? I'm looking to use a portable amp, not something I have to leave on a table.


 


  all i know is ive heard the d5k is everything the the d2k has weak.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Interesting. I'm being lazy here and assuming that the D5k's and the D7k's aren't closed sets? With the D2k's, what, if anything would you use to power them? I'm looking to use a portable amp, not something I have to leave on a table.


 


  Denon D2k, D7k are closed and very easy to drive. straight from iPhone or a cheap fiio E6 does the trick.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW guys, the Mass Effect 2 demo is about to finish downloading, so I'll be testing it with the Mixamp alone, and with the E9 hooked up.

Judging just by the menus on the 360 and PS3, the 250ohm needs as much as the 32ohm and 60ohm on the volume pot. That confirms that all three ohm versions of the Beyers need the practically the same amount of juice from the Mixamp (discounting the 80ohm which FWIR requires LESS volume, even less than the 32ohm). Of course volume =/= drivability, but I'm gonna say pre-test that the 250ohm would work better than the 600ohm off the Mixamp alone, assuming it doesn't clip during bassy intense action like the 600 ohms can at times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol. Okay. The XB500 is one of the worst headphones I've had the displeasure of owning. Seeing that you think they're actually good, well I'm definitely not gonna be helping you any more. Go to your other basshead buddies, because I prefer my bassy headphones to actually have some semblance of quality. I think you should change your sig too, to something about loving fart cannons. Lol.

Nice and upfront vocals from the XB500? He must've had the Jesus Revision.


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Denon D2k, D7k are closed and very easy to drive. straight from iPhone or a cheap fiio E6 does the trick.


 


  Sounds like I may go with the D7k's, and be just like MLE  Thanks, obazavil. Would an E9 be a better purchase than the E6 if I may be looking to power other devices in the future?


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol. Okay. The XB500 is one of the worst headphones I've had the displeasure of owning. Seeing that you think they're actually good, well I'm definitely not gonna be helping you any more. Go to your other basshead buddies, because I prefer my bassy headphones to actually have some semblance of quality. I think you should change your sig too, to something about loving fart cannons. Lol.
> Nice and upfront vocals from the XB500? He must've had the Jesus Revision.


 


  Fun>you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, the E9 is a lot more powerful than any other Fiio amp.

You will absolutely love the D7K. Of that I have no doubt.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Sounds like I may go with the D7k's, and be just like MLE  Thanks, obazavil. Would an E9 be a better purchase than the E6 if I may be looking to power other devices in the future?


 


  e9 is all youll ever need power wise


----------



## ineedmorebase

Did you forget i owned the triple fi 10s?  sure they had better quality and clarity, but were they this fun/enjoyable? NOOOOO!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you directly compare, I guarantee the clarity and front vocal nonsense will be dismissed. The XB500 is an extremely congested, muddy, and veiled headphone.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





ineedmorebase said:


> fiio e7? add the e9, itl power them in ways the e7 cant, since its kind of made for less impedance headphones since its portable too..


 
   
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I don't think you will need an extra amp for 250Ohms headphones.
> 
> if you want it anyway, it must not be E7, it should be E9 instead. Amping section on E7 is pretty weak


 

 Thanks guys, I'll listen to the E7 first and I'll be getting the E9 later (no money atm, lol).
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys, the Mass Effect 2 demo is about to finish downloading, so I'll be testing it with the Mixamp alone, and with the E9 hooked up.
> Judging just by the menus on the 360 and PS3, the 250ohm needs as much as the 32ohm and 60ohm on the volume pot. That confirms that all three ohm versions of the Beyers need the practically the same amount of juice from the Mixamp (discounting the 80ohm which FWIR requires LESS volume, even less than the 32ohm). Of course volume =/= drivability, but I'm gonna say pre-test that the 250ohm would work better than the 600ohm off the Mixamp alone, assuming it doesn't clip during bassy intense action like the 600 ohms can at times.


 

 Sorry Envy, how did you hook up the mixamp to the E9? I mean, do I just need a 3.5mm cable?


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you directly compare, I guarantee the clarity and front vocal nonsense will be dismissed. The XB500 is an extremely congested, muddy, and veiled headphone.


 


  But with which will i enjoy the thump more? while still having a level of sound quality thats non bothering? xb500! I'' one day i'll have the dt 990 pros with the Zo and tell you how glorious it will be, till then, ima rock out with the huge bass and impact master xb500 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  btw, if you were to rate the bass from the dt770's impact/slam/thump etc a 4 out of 5, what would u rate the 990 pros? 3.5? thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have them side by side to compare, but if the DT770 Pros were a 9 in terms of bass quantity, the DT990 Pros are an 8.5. They seriously thump harder than any open can I have ever heard. In comparison, I'd rate the XB500 bass quantity at a 12. Too much.

It's okay to enjoy the XB500. I bought them AFTER having owned all the mid/high-ish end headphones. I wanted a guilty pleasure. I could not enjoy how incredibly muddy and bass bloated they were, with no semblance of clarity and detail. All they have is bass. JUST bass.

The XB700 is better in every single way other than mid bass. They actually sound mid-fi-ish.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have them side by side to compare, but if the DT770 Pros were a 9 in terms of bass quantity, the DT990 Pros are an 8.5. They seriously thump harder than any open can I have ever heard. In comparison, I'd rate the XB500 bass quantity at a 12. Too much.
> It's okay to enjoy the XB500. I bought them AFTER having owned all the mid/high-ish end headphones. I wanted a guilty pleasure. I could not enjoy how incredibly muddy and bass bloated they were, with no semblance of clarity and detail. All they have is bass. JUST bass.
> The XB700 is better in every single way other than mid bass.


 

 I think the dt990s have EVERYTHING i want, and to obtain xb500-like bass,  i wonder if the zo2 will help...ill go search for anyone to have both, im quite hopefull since there have not been any side effects reported like you theorized with the zo2 undermining the sound of some headphones! Remember, it's new technology and it's not been seen before, so its ok to be skeptical and think it "dosent make sense" just try it out, they have a 60 day trial period!! full refund! then you can finally make a review and shut us all up!


----------



## dgcrane

Oops


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, in the case of the DT990 pros, I think something else with a bass boost that rolls off treble would do you a world of good. The reason I would not go with the ZO2 is because it enhances the whole spectrum. The DT990 does NOT need to enhance the treble side of the spectrum. Unless you want your ears to bleed.

The Fiio E7 has a fantastic Bass Boost that adds bass, but reduces treble. If I wanted more bass, the E7 would be perfect for me. 

Actually, I'm beginning to think the DT990 has more bass than I want now. I'm gonna put it to the test, but perhaps being so used to the less bassy KSC35 has changed my bass needs.

Man...


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude, in the case of the DT990 pros, I think something else with a bass boost that rolls off treble would do you a world of good. The reason I would not go with the ZO2 is because it enhances the whole spectrum. The DT990 does NOT need to enhance the treble side of the spectrum. Unless you want your ears to bleed.
> The Fiio E7 has a fantastic Bass Boost that adds bass, but reduces treble. If I wanted more bass, the E7 would be perfect for me.


 


  I thought the E10 is better at amping than the e7? it also has bass bost just only one option, i read a review comparing them both, e10 trumps the e7 in dac too...i just wish it was more powerful to drive them :/ although they have a high gain mode...hm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, it is, I was referring just to the bass boost in the E7. It has 3 settings. The 1st setting is subtle and reduces treble slightly. The other two are huge bass boosts and alter the sound of the headphone, lol.

I was speaking from experience. I never heard the E10 or E11. I'm waiting on the E17, or perhaps the E15 before I upgrade my source components.

I dunno how the E10 or E11 do bass boosts, as it's not important to me, and I was waiting for a true successor to the E7. The E10 isn't because it's only a USB DAC/AMP, which doesn't work in any way other than the USB. The E11 is just a portable amp, which I have no need for.


----------



## AValidName

I am glad to see the D2000s on that list.  When I heard them they seemed like a good choice for gaming and music.  A tad too much bass but nothing extraordinary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know it's a very early impression, but if I were to compare the Premium vs the Pro DT990 in overall SQ, I'd say the Premium sounds better for me. The Pro is too much of a basshead can, and I'm more of a semi-basshead.

Either my tastes have changed, but I think they're a bit too bassy. I'm gonna spend some time with them since Amazon has a pretty large window of return for the holidays. I may just go to the 880 Pros. I didn't feel the Premium DT880s were lacking bass, though I wanted more. Considering the Pros are closer to the ears due to clamp, I would say the880 pros might have the little extra bass push over the Premium 880s that I would be happy with...hopefully.

The DT990 Pro hits all the right spots for a basshead. It's very bassy, very clear, and has high quality sound. However, for those of us who aren't complete bassheads, the Premium DT990 would suit us better.

The one thing the Pro DEFINITELY does better is control that unruly treble of the Premium DT990. 

We'll see what happens. Right now I'm 50/50, but it's too early to have a final say. Maybe the mythological burn in, or me without a headache would favor them even more.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I know it's a very early impression, but if I were to compare the Premium vs the Pro DT990 in overall SQ, I'd say the Premium sounds better for me. The Pro is too much of a basshead can, and I'm more of a semi-basshead.
> Either my tastes have changed, but I think they're a bit too bassy. I'm gonna spend some time with them since Amazon has a pretty large window of return for the holidays. I may just go to the 880 Pros. I didn't feel the Premium DT880s were lacking bass, though I wanted more. Considering the Pros are closer to the ears due to clamp, I would say the880 pros might have the little extra bass push over the Premium 880s that I would be happy with...hopefully.
> The DT990 Pro hits all the right spots for a basshead. It's very bassy, very clear, and has high quality sound. However, for those of us who aren't complete bassheads, the Premium DT990 would suit us better.
> The one thing the Pro DEFINITELY does better is control that unruly treble of the Premium DT990.
> We'll see what happens. Right now I'm 50/50, but it's too early to have a final say. Maybe the mythological burn in, or me without a headache would favor them even more.


 

  
   Actually, I know a fellow headphone supremus that said that the diffrences were ********, that it was basically the same, just another phisical design/clamp force.
   
  BTW, i'm really glad you consider them "too much of a basshead can"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude the difference is minor, but with so much experience listening to headphones, the differences ARE there.


----------



## Munchdog

For the Sennheiser HD 598, gaming on a PC. Can I run only off sound card or high end motherboard, or do I need a dedicated Mix/Amp like the Astro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With a good soundcard that has Dolby Headphone, I think that's all you will need for the HD598. I personally feel they like amping more than people say, but a good soundcard like the Essence STX should do the trick.


----------



## Munchdog

With the Essence, does it allow you to mix chat and sound?
   
  In a perfect world, I'd like to buy one unit. Either a great sound card, or an External Mix amp.
   
  TIA


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That makes absolutely no sense. I already know it boosts the whole frequency range. What do you think that would do to the DT990's already ridiculously peaky treble? Please go ahead and say it doesn't make it peakier than it already is.
> You don't have to try it out. By the graphs, it's blatantly obvious that boosting it higher than it is would be bad news for certain headphones.
> Of course for laid back headphones, it would be beneficial. Never said otherwise.
> However, as stated before, there are plenty of people who don't like to alter the signature of their headphones. I'm one of them, other than altering the sound of horrible headphones like the XB500. Though that needs a a bass reduction, not a bass boost.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude, in the case of the DT990 pros, I think something else with a bass boost that rolls off treble would do you a world of good. The reason I would not go with the ZO2 is because it enhances the whole spectrum. The DT990 does NOT need to enhance the treble side of the spectrum. Unless you want your ears to bleed.


 
   
  Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about in this case. I've spent EQing a lot over the course of 7 years or so, I know these things. If you boost the whole range evenly, you don't get any brighter sound. It's all about frequency balance of the whole range, if you boost also all other frequencies equally much as you boost the peaky frequencies it won't get you brighter sound, in fact it gets you a little less sibilance, I know this from experience. 
   
  In fact there's been a few people who actually reported less sibilance when using ZO because that's the side-effect you get from boosting the whole range making it more forward sounding in the entire range, it smoothens out peaks/dips a little, at least that's how our ears percieve it.
  
  It's especially nice fit for a headphone with a "thin" sounding V-shaped sound signature like those Beyers, cuz it adds body to the midrange from perceived more even balance, just ask the PRO900 users who use ZO.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dude the difference is minor, but with so much experience listening to headphones, the differences ARE there.


 
  deja el "dude" ese ya LOL
   
  y nunca dije que no estaban, clamp/design does that!
   
  Lo ultimo que te dire es esto, para ya no joderte mas xD:
   
  Simply download this song, and play this otehr one in youtube @ 720p and tell me what you think of them on the dt990 pros and thats it, ill leave you alone 
   
   
  
 http://www38.zippyshare.com/v/53428158/file.html = sub bass @ 0:58 and a kickass starting bassline with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge7YR77jHwQ


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





rpgwizard said:


> Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about in this case. I've spent EQing a lot over the course of 7 years or so, I know these things. If you boost the whole range evenly, you don't get any brighter sound. It's all about frequency balance of the whole range, if you boost also all other frequencies equally much as you boost the peaky frequencies it won't get you brighter sound, in fact it gets you a little less sibilance, I know this from experience.
> 
> In fact there's been a few people who actually reported less sibilance when using ZO because that's the side-effect you get from boosting the whole range making it more forward sounding in the entire range, it smoothens out peaks a little, at least that's how our ears percieve it.
> 
> It's especially nice fit for a headphone with a "thin" sounding V-shaped sound signature like those Beyers, cuz it adds body from perceived more even balance, just ask the PRO900 users who use ZO.


 

 O snap 
   
  Btw rpg, buy the dt990 pro please..i want to see your impressions of them with the Zo2 > it just sounds like the perfect headphone for us, Soundstage for gaming, great bass (plus Zo to meet our basshead requirements), detail, clarity.... just buy it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yet, when I had the XB500, I EQ'ed-up the whole frequency to get a brighter sound. See what I did there? Personal experience, brah.

base, he wouldn't like the DT990s, he likes his headphones duller than hell. He hates treble for the most part.


----------



## Eric_C

MLE, is there any way you can EQ down the bass of the 990 Pro? That might hit the sweet spot for you.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





ineedmorebase said:


> O snap
> 
> Btw rpg, buy the dt990 pro please..i want to see your impressions of them with the Zo2 > it just sounds like the perfect headphone for us, Soundstage for gaming, great bass (plus Zo to meet our basshead requirements), detail, clarity.... just buy it!


 

 Well I don't like V-shaped sound signatures, the Beyers have too much recessed midrange for my liking, I rather take muddy but forward midrange over clear but tinny V-shaped sound signatures. But with ZO2 + some EQing to the midrange especially I might still be able to get the sound I like but it's still smarter to get something that needs as little EQing as possible to be satisfied.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yet, when I had the XB500, I EQ'ed-up the whole frequency to get a brighter sound. See what I did there? Personal experience, brah.
> base, he wouldn't like the DT990s, he likes his headphones duller than hell. He hates treble for the most part.


 


  By duller you mean...?
   
  I thought the whole point of the XB500s to be the opposite of "dull" to be FUN...are you taking dull's opposite to be...clarity?


----------



## ineedmorebase




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pros for gaming, ROCK. Dolby Headphone + DT990 Pro = match made in heaven. Soundstage, surround positioning is spot on, and the bass doesn't get in the way like they do in the DT770 pro 80s. Looks like this one is leaning towards being a keeper again. VERY impressive. 




eric_c said:


> MLE, is there any way you can EQ down the bass of the 990 Pro? That might hit the sweet spot for you.




No option for that outside of media player options. I'm not much into equalizing, but I guess I can lower the bass a little to my liking. I'm just trying to get a feel for their sound first before I start making changes like EQ. It really is too soon to judge the bass since these are absolutely fresh,and I'm personally not in the best state to be listening to bassy headphones due to having a semi-bad headache. Whn I feel beter, I will go for it again.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ineedmorebase said:


> By duller you mean...?
> 
> I thought the whole point of the XB500s to be the opposite of "dull" to be FUN...are you taking dull's opposite to be...clarity?


 


  No, dull as opposed to energetic. Treble's where the energy's at; kill the treble and the sound does get dulled. Try it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ineedmorebase said:


> By duller you mean...?
> 
> I thought the whole point of the XB500s to be the opposite of "dull" to be FUN...are you taking dull's opposite to be...clarity?




Duller = meaning treble being tame considerably. RPG and I have very diferent tastes in terms of treble. I like emphasized treble, he likes them dulled down. Sorry for not explaining.

edit: Thanks Eric, glad you understood that.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> No, dull as opposed to energetic. Treble's where the energy's at; kill the treble and the sound does get dulled. Try it out.


 


  Depends on your music


----------



## Eric_C

@MLE: Ouch, sorry to hear you're feeling under the weather. Ya, prob not the best time for you to make a final judgement on bassy cans since you've been used to less bassy ones for a while now.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Duller = meaning treble being tame considerably. RPG and I have very diferent tastes in terms of treble. I like emphasized treble, he likes them dulled down. Sorry for not explaining.
> edit: Thanks Eric, glad you understood that.


 

 OK I like them about "neutral" not too much veiled, I don't however want the highs >4kHz to be more elevated than mids, that's a big no-no, I can tolerate if highs are a little more recessed than mids but not the other way round. I'm sure you'd be suprised how well these just tiny bit EQ'd HTF600 for more highs so they are about even with the mids sound like, it's certainly not a dull sound. It's just I can tolerate warm sounding headphones better than bright/cold/thin sounding headphones with V-shaped signatures such as PRO900, Beyer DT770/990 etc. I'd rather take an upside-down V shaped signature even, with less lows and highs than mids, most important for me these days is forward mids but I still like strong bass response but HTF600 brings me both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Totally respect that. We all hear differently. I was wondering if you've ever heard the HD650. It sounds like the perfect headphone for you, bass aside.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ineedmorebase said:


> Depends on your music


 

 Sorry, no it doesn't. Take any given track and EQ out the treble completely, and it will sound muffled or like you're underwater. 
  I know you like a lot of bass, and of course lowering treble will make bass stand out more (and seem louder, by contrast), but it's still a duller sound without the treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> Sorry, no it doesn't. Take any given track and EQ out the treble completely, and it will sound muffled or like you're underwater.
> I know you like a lot of bass, and of course lowering treble will make bass stand out more (and seem louder, by contrast), but it's still a duller sound without the treble.




This. That's my problem with treble recessed headphones. They sound like muffled crap to me. Not saying they are, I just personally attribute treble to clarity, which is why I'd never get something like the HD650.

I owned thee ESW9A, and it was a very bass and mid centric phone with smooth highs. For me, it sounded like a $10 headphone because of the lack of sparkle. And yes, they were 100% legit.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Sorry, no it doesn't. Take any given track and EQ out the treble completely, and it will sound muffled or like you're underwater.
> I know you like a lot of bass, and of course lowering treble will make bass stand out more (and seem louder, by contrast), but it's still a duller sound without the treble.


 


  No, I mean that some songs are guided mostly by bass, but since your music tastes are....ok nothing in your page except a cup of coffee... :<
   
  anywho, obviously it'l sound duller, but to me dull is less fun, i have a "funner" time with bass concentration than treble, that is all.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> This. That's my problem with treble recessed headphones. They sound like muffled crap to me. Not saying they are, I just personally attribute treble to clarity, which is why I'd never get something like the HD650.
> I owned thee ESW9A, and it was a very bass and mid centric phone with smooth highs. For me, it sounded like a $10 headphone because of the lack of sparkle. And yes, they were 100% legit.


 


  Guess it just *simply comes down to preference* ; You have more "fun" with clear treble, some of us, because of our music, have more fun and enjoyment with MOAR BASS


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ineedmorebase said:


> No, I mean that some songs are guided mostly by bass, but since your music tastes are....ok nothing in your page except a cup of coffee... :<
> 
> anywho, obviously it'l sound duller, but to me dull is less fun, i have a "funner" time with bass concentration than treble, that is all.




I like both, bass and treble. That's what RPG was referring to as V shaped curve. The dip is where the mids are. Mids are mostly vocals, but my genres are mostly bass and treble. The V shaped curved headphones I like don't dismiss the mids, they're just not the highlight.


----------



## ineedmorebase

http://www.head-fi.org/t/585238/poll-best-basshead-cans-200-and-below#post_7968757


----------



## googleli

I have made an appointment with the local distributor of Focal for next week. I will be able to do PRIR on their Focal Utopia system with JL Audio 213 subwoofer when my Realiser arrives next week. Looking forward to playing Battlefield 3 with the SR009 simulating the showroom with the Realiser at home.


----------



## Eric_C

ineedmorebase: Imma break down a few common terms used on Head-Fi for you. These are rough outlines of what kind of frequency curve each term refers to.
   
  Neutral = Flat
  Clear = Flat OR boosted treble
  Bright = boosted treble
  Fun = Boosted bass OR V
  Muddy = Dull = Boosted bass AND lowered treble
  V = Boosted bass AND boosted treble, OR recessed mids
  n = Lowered bass AND lowered treble, OR boosted mids
   
  As you can see, "fun" always means boosted bass. Whether treble is boosted or lowered is unclear from the term "fun". And nobody says a can is "fun" if it has boosted treble only. 
   
  Using these terms isn't about preference, it's about having a common language for objective facts...whether you prefer neutral or fun or bright, that's another matter entirely.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ineedmorebase: Imma break down a few common terms used on Head-Fi for you. These are rough outlines of what kind of frequency curve each term refers to.
> 
> Neutral = Flat
> Clear = Flat OR boosted treble
> ...


 
  I understand, all I'm saying is that my preferences lean more toward the bass performance, for MY music.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *ineedmorebase* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 

 LOL


----------



## Evarin

MLE, i'm confused. Did you buy the 990's because you couldn't afford to jump back up to the D7K's, or did you want to try something new?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can buy the D7K. However, I don't want a pleather/leather padded headphone. As much as I loved theD7K (bestust hedphonz evr), the pads bother me a bit too much. I'm a velour guy.

I already owned the DT990, but this one is diferent due to it being the Pro version, which looks and feels different. The Premium ones bothered me for some reason, and remembering how much I liked the DT770 Pro comfort, I went with the Pro this time around.



*Ok guys, so I tested the DT990 with and without the E9 attached to the Mixamp.

Verdict: I prefer it without the E9. Why? The Mixamp alone drives it fairly well for gaming, and doesn't fill out the bass as much as the E9 does. 

So if you're NOT going to add a mic, the DT990 Pro with the Mixamp is a fantastic combo for immersive gaming. I won't rate it different from the Premium DT990, because they sound very similar all around for gaming. My original scores for the DT990 apply to the DT990 Pro. Yes, it's a first day impression, but I can tell it would be the same verdict. *


----------



## Evarin

Good update, MLE.
   
  Just to get a good conversation going again...
   
  What is everyone playing at the moment, on what system, and with what headphones?
   
   
_I'm currently playing Rage and Skyrim, both on the PC, using my Yamaha receiver (so Silent Cinema) and the PC 360's._
   
  It sounds good...but i'm hoping it will sound a lot better with the D7k's once I get my hands on them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D7K will blow your socks off. Back when I owned the D7K, HE4, and PC360, the PC360 only came out when I needed voice chat.

I'm currently going through my old catalog of PS2 games, and been playing Suikoden IV for the PS2. Not even using headphones, just my Vizio soundbar (I'm not too anal about non-headphone sound, it does it's job), and a Sony subwoofer.

I think I'm most likely going to return these. My headache is gone, but I honestly don't care for how much bass it has. If these were for gaming only, then they'd be keepers, but alas they are not. I dunno what the hell I'm gonna do, but I feel bad for returning them.

They have taught me something valuable: my tastes have changed. I'm still a mild bass head, but less than I used to be. I really wish I'd have kept the HE4 and Lyr.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can buy the D7K. However, I don't want a pleather/leather padded headphone. As much as I loved theD7K (bestust hedphonz evr), the pads bother me a bit too much. I'm a velour guy.
> I already owned the DT990, but this one is diferent due to it being the Pro version, which looks and feels different. The Premium ones bothered me for some reason, and remembering how much I liked the DT770 Pro comfort, I went with the Pro this time around.
> *Ok guys, so I tested the DT990 with and without the E9 attached to the Mixamp.
> Verdict: I prefer it without the E9. Why? The Mixamp alone drives it fairly well for gaming, and doesn't fill out the bass as much as the E9 does.
> So if you're NOT going to add a mic, the DT990 Pro with the Mixamp is a fantastic combo for immersive gaming. I won't rate it different from the Premium DT990, because they sound very similar all around for gaming. My original scores for the DT990 apply to the DT990 Pro. Yes, it's a first day impression, but I can tell it would be the same verdict. *


 


  What do you mean dosent fill out the bass?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ineedmorebase said:


> What do you mean dosent fill out the bass?


 


 E9 chained in with the mixamp is pushing stronger bass than mixamp alone.  Same experience I've had with Q701s + mixamp + E9.  I removed the E9.
   
   
  I'm currently playing Metro 2033.  It's got a pretty decent, immersive campaign.  Good pacing - Lots of trecking through creepy tunnels, and stealth-i-ness as well.
  Mixamp >> Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the E9 is a better amp than the Mixamp, so it fills out the sound, making everything sound fuller. Unfortunately, the bass is a bit too full. The Mixamp makes the DT990 a little more sterile, and not make the bass as full. The headphone sounds spectacular off the Mixamp, just obviously not driven to heights like the powerful E9.

edit: Thanks chico.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, maybe you should wait on impressions from those new open Shures.  Looks like a beyerdynamic/sennhesier combo with snuggly velour.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> MLE, maybe you should wait on impressions from those new open Shures.  Looks like a beyerdynamic/sennhesier combo with snuggly velour.




Going by what people are saying about the price, it looks like they'll be too rich for my blood.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Going by what people are saying about the price, it looks like they'll be too rich for my blood.


 
   
  Ya, as soon as I saw those dual di$connecting cables my face went like this > 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
   
  Same with the new Senn HD700 probably :\


----------



## Naked Snake

MLE, do you have any interest in trying out the new AT A900x? I own the AD700 + Mixamp and I'm quite happy with it right now, but wondering if these would be an upgrade from AD700 in the future in terms of imaging, soundstage, and positioning.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so I went and did something I haven't done in a long time.... I detached the E9, and now I'm running the DT990 off just the E7, lol. The bass is lessened, but now it sounds underdriven, lol.

Damn, like, I want to return these for the DT880 Pro, I do. I just don't wanna get those and then end up not liking them either.

My only solution is the HE4. But damn, I need the Lyr with those, combined, that's enough for almost a Beyer T1. 

As for the A900x, I have no interest in wing designed Audio Technicas. I HATE wings.


----------



## Toxic72

Mad did you ever get a chance to try out the Ultrasone Pro 900s? I've been trying to decide between Ultrasone and Denon for a new gaming headset + mostly rock music, and was hoping you had tried both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

toxic72 said:


> Mad did you ever get a chance to try out the Ultrasone Pro 900s? I've been trying to decide between Ultrasone and Denon for a new gaming headset + mostly rock music, and was hoping you had tried both.




I wanted them earlier on, but went for the D7000 instead. Nowadays, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole, as they have massive mid bass, which just gives me headaches. They're known as gods of bass around here, and right now, I could use a little less bass from my headphones.


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ok, so I went and did something I haven't done in a long time.... I detached the E9, and now I'm running the DT990 off just the E7, lol. The bass is lessened, but now it sounds underdriven, lol.
> Damn, like, I want to return these for the DT880 Pro, I do. I just don't wanna get those and then end up not liking them either.
> My only solution is the HE4. But damn, I need the Lyr with those, combined, that's enough for almost a Beyer T1.
> 
> ...


 


  Aaaw,  I would've loved to hear your opinion on these. But anyway, good to see you active in your thread again.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> MLE, do you have any interest in trying out the new AT A900x? I own the AD700 + Mixamp and I'm quite happy with it right now, but wondering if these would be an upgrade from AD700 in the future in terms of imaging, soundstage, and positioning.


 

 I've read good things about the A900x soundstage/positioning.  Worth looking into.  I also would be curious hear the new audio technica AIR-T line to see if they keep some of the AD700 soundstage but improve the sig/bass.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Damn, like, I want to return these for the DT880 Pro, I do. I just don't wanna get those and then end up not liking them either.


 

 Join the 880 side (again). You know you want to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Active because I was once again having the urge to get a new headphone. XD

Okay, so I take it back, it was just the song. The DT990 Pro with the E7 is still too bassy for me.


----------



## chicolom

FYI, the new Air T-line has ditched the wings for a full headband.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> FYI, the new Air T-line has ditched the wings for a full headband.


 Yeah, I saw that. I'm curious to how they will sound. Knowing AT, they'll be bass light. Probably gonna be great for hardcore competitive gaming, but not for immersive gaming.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> E9 chained in with the mixamp is pushing stronger bass than mixamp alone.  Same experience I've had with Q701s + mixamp + E9.  I removed the E9.
> 
> 
> I'm currently playing Metro 2033.  It's got a pretty decent, immersive campaign.  Good pacing - Lots of trecking through creepy tunnels, and stealth-i-ness as well.
> Mixamp >> Q701.


 


  :O I forgot about that game
   
  time to quickly add that to my christmas list
   
  i heard theres a new one coming out too!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> Join the 880 side (again). You know you want to.



Lol, I'm close to doing that. XD


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've read good things about the A900x soundstage/positioning.  Worth looking into.  I also would be curious hear the new audio technica AIR-T line to see if they keep some of the AD700 soundstage but improve the sig/bass.


 


  I read Dsnuts review about the A900x and was very excited. MLE if you can get past the wings they may be worth looking into like chicolom said.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Naked, I know, I have a feeling that I would seriously like the sound for competitive games, but they'd be too bass light for my taste.

BTW, I tossed the DT990 aside and hooked up my humble KSC35. A breath of fresh air. The sub bass presence is similar (slightly less), but the mid bass isn't drilling my head like the DT990. Obviously not as refined, but almost as enjoyable, tone-wise.


----------



## Naked Snake

Aaah I see, no worries man, but keep us updated on your journey to finding the right pair of headphones for you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I went to Amazon and started the motion to return the cans. I'm gonna spend a few days with them and decide if today was just not my day for them...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I saw that. I'm curious to how they will sound. Knowing AT, they'll be bass light. Probably gonna be great for hardcore competitive gaming, but not for immersive gaming.


 

 I think AT realized the old AD series design had run its course, and that the design failed at bass.  The new ones look a little more closed, so I'm hoping they can extract some more bass this time.  They could make great budget classical cans at least.
   
   
  Quote: 





vonx said:


> :O I forgot about that game
> 
> time to quickly add that to my christmas list
> 
> i heard theres a new one coming out too!


 
   
  Ya, Metro is pretty cool.  The shooting mechanics are slightly clunky, but the environment/atmosphere is excellent.
 The next one's called Metro: Last Light - wikipedia says it won't be out until 2012 Q2 or Q3  : \
   
    
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> BTW, I tossed the DT990 aside and hooked up my *humble KSC35*. A breath of fresh air. The sub bass presence is similar (slightly less), but the mid bass isn't drilling my head like the DT990. Obviously not as refined, but almost as enjoyable, tone-wise.


 
   
  I still think I may buy some sportapros and steal/swap their ksc35 drivers onto my ksc75 clips.  How is the comfort comparison between the 75 and 35 clips?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not gonna lie, the KSC35 clips kinda bothered at first. However, they don't bend and therefore remain true to their sound. The KSC75 clips are more comfy, but can bend and alters SQ. The KSC75 I have now is not as good as when I first got them, though it's mostly my fault for bending the clips myself. No matter what I do, I can't bend them back to their proper place. Anyways, the KSC35 clips (once you get used to them, which honestly doesn't take that long) are about an 8/10, vs the 10/10 of the KSC75. I don't have an issue wearing them all day. Sure, I miss the rubbery KSC75 clips, but the KSC35 clips will do.

I may end up getting another pair of KSC75s and using the fresh clips with the KSC35.


----------



## chicolom

It's possible you would have to bend the KSC75 clips either way, as the KSC35 looks thinner which could make the 75 clips stick out to far/be too lose.  I think my ears are probably A-symmetrical, so I'm better of bending them a little.  It is tough to bend them back once you screw them up though - that happened on my first pair.


----------



## ineedmorebase

So it is decided then, for 175 $, if you want soundstage, good clarity, great sound quality, most bass available on an open can, AND DONT NEED ISOLATION, get the *DT 990 Pros*! They seem to be the best ones for the price and quality, they are also really good for gaming, you just need to get a good amp or soundcard.
  
 If you need isolation and want greeeeeeeeat bass, and an upgrade in quality from say the sony xb500's get the *dt770s*, they are quite nice closed headphones! also 145$ on ebay from trusted sellers.
  
 If you find some specials like we have; selling them for 200 or near that price, but most seem upwards 250 :/ due to demand, but it seems A LOT OF HEAD FIERS love their d2000!
  
 Cheers everyone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so it does seem I made the mistake of judging them too quickly. About 30 minutes of using the KSC35 (which NEVER bothers me), and the bass started bothering me.

Today is not a good day for me to judge headphones.

I'm not gonna say to disregard what I have said about the DT990 Pro, but I'm definitely gonna take my sweet ass time getting used to them, because it looks like my ears aren't in a good mood for bass today.

I apologize to those I may have turned away from the DT990 Pros. Don't rule them out yet. Not that you should just go by what I say anyways.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so it does seem I made the mistake of judging them too quickly. About 30 minutes of using the KSC35 (which NEVER bothers me), and the bass started bothering me.
> Today is not a good day for me to judge headphones.
> I'm not gonna say to disregard what I have said about the DT990 Pro, but I'm definitely gonna take my sweet ass time getting used to them, because it looks like my ears aren't in a good mood for bass today.
> I apologize to those I may have turned away from the DT990 Pros. Don't rule them out yet. Not that you should just go by what I say anyways.


 


  Can i expect a full length review by the end of the week sir?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I dunno about a full length review (I'm not articulate with my words like others are), but I will do my best to clarify what is good and what is with them.

Listening right now to Adamn Nickey - Callista (Stoneface & Terminal Mix), and I'm very much enjoying the DT990s at this very moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkqCPrKZj6Q


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, the E9 is a better amp than the Mixamp, so it fills out the sound, making everything sound fuller. Unfortunately, the bass is a bit too full. The Mixamp makes the DT990 a little more sterile, and not make the bass as full. The headphone sounds spectacular off the Mixamp, just obviously not driven to heights like the powerful E9.
> edit: Thanks chico.


 


  Any theory about the E10 amp/dac for my desktop with dt900pro? it will save me lots of cash and a new vsound card


----------



## Eric_C

@MLE: The fact that your reviews are short is one of the main reasons I prefer reading them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks, Eric. I'm not a professional by any means. I just like to get down to the cold hard facts as to how I perceive the headphones I 'review'. I'm terrible with analogies and the like, lol.

Looks like my headache wasn't exactly gone. 

I have faith that next time I review these, they're gonna be more favorable. Shoot, if I couldn't take the KSC35's sound for more than 30 minutes, something is definitely wrong. I LOVE the KSC35. XD

One thing I must stress about the DT990 Pro is how well they mesh with Dolby Headphone. I haven't been that impressed in awhile.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thanks, Eric. I'm not a professional by any means. I just like to get down to the cold hard facts as to how I perceive the headphones I 'review'. I'm terrible with analogies and the like, lol.
> Looks like my headache wasn't exactly gone.
> 
> 
> ...


 


  dolby as in sound card? i wont get that if i get the E10 right ? :<


----------



## Eric_C

Dolby as in Dolby Headphone with a console and MixAmp, which is the purpose of this entire thread as MLE outlined in the very first post. He doesn't game much on PC, so he's almost always referring to DH on MixAmp.


----------



## Evarin

I'm told that the MMX 300 gaming set from Beyer is basically the 770's, so I would definitely pick up a pair of those for gaming over the 770s unless you don't want something with an integrated mic.


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





evarin said:


> I'm told that the MMX 300 gaming set from Beyer is basically the 770's, so I would definitely pick up a pair of those for gaming over the 770s unless you don't want something with an integrated mic.


 


  Already have a mic..xD but read this thread, it's....sigh..lol http://www.head-fi.org/t/585238/poll-best-basshead-cans-200-and-below/60#post_7969504


----------



## ineedmorebase

Quote: 





evarin said:


> I'm told that the MMX 300 gaming set from Beyer is basically the 770's, so I would definitely pick up a pair of those for gaming over the 770s unless you don't want something with an integrated mic.


 


  btw, WHATS WRONG WITH YOU?! "basically the 770's? They cost 350, 770's cost 145...GG and you would definitley pick a pair...What


----------



## TMRaven

Please understand the DT770 pro 80s cost 145, and the premium DT770s cost upwards of 300.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-32-Headphones/dp/B0024NK36C/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1323843232&sr=8-6
   
   
  Btw what's with the way with your posting habits?  It's getting annoying.


----------



## Eric_C

@ineedmorebase: What's wrong with Evarin's statement? It's correct, the MMX 300 is, as far as everyone can tell, a DT 770. But it does have an integrated mic, and a USB connection (which is optional).
   
  MMX 300 = 350
  DT770 + Antlion Modmic + USB adaptor w/ mute = 145 + 32.95 + 24.95** = 202.90
  **Based on Turtle Beach's USB card, which lacks a mute switch: http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/sound-cards/audio-advantage-amigo-ii.aspx
   
  Depends on the premium you place on convenience, and assumes you know which mic + DAC to buy.
   
  Also, please stop shouting.


----------



## googleli

Eric, you know what I'm going to say when I see your Avatar?


----------



## Eric_C

What the. Uh, no?


----------



## googleli

Creamy, dude. CREAMY!!


----------



## Eric_C

???
It's a flat white. Ain't no cream there...


----------



## rabidgamer

I wasn't too impressed with the PC360s at first (after coming from the AD700s) but last night on BF3 they were brilliant... everything just sounded better than it did on the first day, happy about that. Used them for a few hours now and liking them more and more.
   
  Question for those who use the mixamp + PC360, how do you control the volume? and does it matter? atm I've got the volume knob on the PC360 set to max, and control the sound with the mixamp. I don't play anywhere near full volume either, so don't worry! lol
   
  Just wondering if it makes a difference.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





rabidgamer said:


> Question for those who use the mixamp + PC360, how do you control the volume? and does it matter? atm I've got the volume knob on the PC360 set to max, and control the sound with the mixamp. I don't play anywhere near full volume either, so don't worry! lol
> 
> Just wondering if it makes a difference.


 
   
  The way your doing it is fine.
   
  I set the PC360s to max and set the mixamp to ~50% with game/voice set to 70%.  If your doing single player I think it's better to turn the game/voice all the way left to game balance and adjust the master accordingly, as there is less hiss that way.  In between rounds I usually spin the wheel on the PC360s to turn it down as it's more convenient.
   
  Volume pots tend to have channel imbalance at very low volumes.
   
  A bad way to do it would be to set the PC360s to 10% volume and the mixamp to 90%.


----------



## rabidgamer

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The way your doing it is fine.
> 
> I set the PC360s to max and set the mixamp to ~50% with game/voice set to 70%.  If your doing single player I think it's better to turn the game/voice all the way left to game balance and adjust the master accordingly, as there is less hiss that way.  In between rounds I usually spin the wheel on the PC360s to turn it down as it's more convenient.
> 
> ...


 


 Cheers for the quick reply, good to know I'm doing it right. 
   
  I have the mixamp set to 25% ish, and the game/voice set to 50% (right in the middle) so I don't really listen too loud lol.


----------



## Evarin

Definitely do 100% sound and 0% mic on the mixamp when you can get away with it. Even with the on-board PC 360 turned all the way up and the mixamp volume at 100% it can STILL be right at the lower range of my listening volume, though more often than not it is loud enough to get the job done. Glad you liked the PC 360's. I definitely enjoy them for video game play, but for music they offer you a taste of what is available with higher-end headphones and leave you desperately wanting more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, you usually want to max out everything but the final piece in the chain, where you control volume there. However, in line volume controls tend to be of lower quality than amps, in which they may have slight imbalances and loss in dynamics. Try your best to keep the PC360 volume maxed, and control the volume with the Mixamp. I personally only slightly use the PC360 volume knob for very subtle tweaks from its maxed volume.


----------



## NamelessPFG

There seems to be one exception to that rule, and that's with PC sound cards. The higher you set their volume, the less headroom you have on the EQ before clipping.
   
  This is why I keep the volume at around 10% on the PC side and let the amp do the bulk of the volume increase. (Though to be fair, if I plugged a dynamic headphone straight into an X-Fi Forte or Titanium HD, it would be too painfully loud to listen to at the 8% to 10% range. That would easily pass for 70% to 100% on some other sources...)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I still feel the bass is too heavy. I'm wishing I'd have gone back to the Premium DT990/600's bass which was for all intent and purposes was....perfect. The DT990/600 had in my opinion, better bass than the D7000. Better bass in terms of the fact that not only is it big and fills out the room, but it's quicker and better textured. The DT990 Pro is noticeably slower and boomy, and more prominent. The D7000's bass is addictive and fills out a 'room' more than the DT990/600, but never got boomy like the DT990 Pro, so it was a middle ground between the two Beyers. 

My problem (comfort aside), is that the Premium DT990/600 has that peaky treble, whereas the DT990 Pro is toned down enough in that area that it NEVER bothers me. I never thought bass would be what bothered me in the DT990.

I think my ideal dream solution would actually be the DT990/600 + Schiit Lyr combo. The Lyr rolls off the treble just very slightly compared to the E9, but with the two sets of tubes I had, the E9 still had more forward mids. I dunno.

*Edit: Just placed an order for the Premium DT990/600 with 1-day shipping. I'll be getting these tomorrow to compare directly with the DT990 Pros. Had to do it for my own sanity. Looks like the DT990 Pros are going back after the comparison*


----------



## Rebel975

Current setup:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yep, pretty much the type of mess you expect from this hobby. XD

What is that connected directly to the PC, Speakers, and Lyr?


----------



## Taowolf51

I want to try out Dolby headphone, but I only have integrated audio (it has Dolby Home Theater I think, but I don't see anything that says Dolby Headphone), and only a PCI-E x1 slot (my PCI slots are covered by my GPUs). What is my cheapest option that has Dolby Headphone?
  My current setup is a Fiio E7 with my Pro 750's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can buy the wired Mixamp which has a built in USB DAC, so when you play on PCs, you can play in Dolby Headphone (only games that suport Dolby Digital Live).

I of course, don't know how to set it up, since my old wired Mixamp was pre-USB DAC, and the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't have that feature.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yep, pretty much the type of mess you expect from this hobby. XD
> What is that connected directly to the PC, Speakers, and Lyr?


 
   
   
   
   
  A very basic audio switcher. No circuitry inside. Push any 2 (or more) switches in and those paths are linked. It can do any combination you want. 5 in to 1 out, 1 in to 5 out, etc.
   
  BTW, those are some cheapo Genius SP-HF1800A bookshelf speakers. They were like $50 with free shipping. Certainly a lot nicer to watch Netflix with the GF than the built in speakers in my monitor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I have a pair of logitech speakers that I used with my monitor whenever I didn't wanna use headphones. Of course my Monitor is dead, so my PC is hooked up to the 65" Plasma in my room. I'm running audio to a basic Vizio soundbar w/Sony subwoofer. I'm not strict on my non-headphone audio, as long as it's decent.

In case anyone is wondering why I sold the Lyr+D7000+HE-4, it was to fund for said 65" Panny plasma.


----------



## Taowolf51

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You can buy the wired Mixamp which has a built in USB DAC, so when you play on PCs, you can play in Dolby Headphone (only games that suport Dolby Digital Live).
> I of course, don't know how to set it up, since my old wired Mixamp was pre-USB DAC, and the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't have that feature.


 


  They seem to be pretty expensive ($140). Would simply having a sound card (like the Xonar DX, DS, DG, or D1) do the trick?


----------



## Rebel975

Here's the one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001F347K/ref=oh_o01_s00_i00_details  Highly recommended.


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, just scored an SU-DH1 from eBay! (The Victor-branded version with an AC adapter, not the JVC-branded version that eats up batteries.) Sooner or later, I'll get to judge Dolby Headphone for myself where it really matters to me-in games.
   
  (Yeah, I know, just about everyone else is using an Astro Mixamp instead, but it's the same binaural filter at the core.)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





taowolf51 said:


> I want to try out Dolby headphone, but I only have integrated audio (it has Dolby Home Theater I think, but I don't see anything that says Dolby Headphone), and only a PCI-E x1 slot (my PCI slots are covered by my GPUs). What is my cheapest option that has Dolby Headphone?
> My current setup is a Fiio E7 with my Pro 750's.


 
  Asus Xonar DX, comes with a $20 mail in rebate.


----------



## IlSol

Turns out the process of exchange of dt 770 pro 80 for dt 990 pro 250 isn't running as smooth as i had expected. I'm still willing to fight the battle if needed. I was actually thinking about getting and trying the dt 770 80 pro as scheduled and returning them if my tastes didn't match the bass amount of those headphones but i discovered that in that online shop the refund is only up to 70% if the product has been opened so i guess i'll have to trust your experience and follow your suggestions


----------



## Taowolf51

That it does, thanks. Might pick that up tomorrow.


----------



## rabidgamer

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Definitely do 100% sound and 0% mic on the mixamp when you can get away with it. Even with the on-board PC 360 turned all the way up and the mixamp volume at 100% it can STILL be right at the lower range of my listening volume, though more often than not it is loud enough to get the job done. Glad you liked the PC 360's. I definitely enjoy them for video game play, but for music they offer you a taste of what is available with higher-end headphones and leave you desperately wanting more.


 


  100% Volume is close to your lower range of volume!? That's crazy loud for me lol, can't even stand 50% volume before it starts to hurt. I use to game loud too, before on the old mixamp I had the volume at around 80% and fairly sure that mixed with other loud listening in the past, caused some tinnitus that is yet to leave (probably never will) so I wrote off headphones for a bit, ever since I've returned my hearing is a lot more sensitive, which forces me to play at lower volumes... a blessing in disguise really.


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, you usually want to max out everything but the final piece in the chain, where you control volume there. However, in line volume controls tend to be of lower quality than amps, in which they may have slight imbalances and loss in dynamics. Try your best to keep the PC360 volume maxed, and control the volume with the Mixamp. I personally only slightly use the PC360 volume knob for very subtle tweaks from its maxed volume.


 


  Yeah that's what I do, cheers.
   
  I used to get headaches after an hour or two with the AD700s and I knew it wasn't because they were too loud, not had one with the PC360 yet... seems the AD700 was maybe just a bit too harsh for my ears, not sure. Either that or the fit was a bit off.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> All right, just scored an SU-DH1 from eBay! (The Victor-branded version with an AC adapter, not the JVC-branded version that eats up batteries.) Sooner or later, I'll get to judge Dolby Headphone for myself where it really matters to me-in games.
> 
> (Yeah, I know, just about everyone else is using an Astro Mixamp instead, but it's the same binaural filter at the core.)


 


  IIRC, the SU-DH1 uses an earlier implementation of Dolby Headphone (v1). I remember reading it somewhere which was the reason I passed on the SU-DH1. The other reason I passed was because the Victor version was too expensive to import and that the ac adapter was like $40 but you can probably grab a universal at radioi shack for half the price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What the hell, so Amazon decided on using FED Ex for shipping this time, and not UPS (which I'm used to). UPS tends to drop off packages near the early evening, and Fed Ex was here at 10:30am. My problem is that I NEVER hear anyone knock here, and have to put up a paper stating to knock on the window, since sound just doesn't carry into my bedroom from the living room. 

Damn, it. I'm hoping that the local Fed Ex will have it before they close tonight so I can pick it up. I didn't pay $4 extra dollars for nothing. Just that's scrap change, buit it irks me when I miss a delivery that I paid to get early. X(


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





calpis said:


> IIRC, the SU-DH1 uses an earlier implementation of Dolby Headphone (v1). I remember reading it somewhere which was the reason I passed on the SU-DH1. The other reason I passed was because the Victor version was too expensive to import and that the ac adapter was like $40 but you can probably grab a universal at radioi shack for half the price.


 

 I've heard that the Astro Mixamp just utilizes a simplified DSP chip that only has DH2 mode, but consumes less power. No DTS decoding, and probably no Pro Logic II decoding either...things I just might have a use for. On the flip side, it does have microphone mixing for voice chat...except that's not a feature I have much use for on my consoles, especially not the original Xbox I'll likely be using it with. (While I could try out Xlink Kai sooner or later, I just haven't bothered yet.)
   
  Also, I won the Victor version for $86 shipped, apparently with the AC adapter. I think that's a fairly reasonable price to give this thing a chance, given that Mixamps regularly sell for more (though one did sell for just $80 complete here on Head-Fi before).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp accepts Pro Logic II.

As for only having Dolby Headphone 2, it's generally known to be only only DH worth using. DH1 sounds too packed in, and DH3 sounds like everything is too far away. That is why all DH products after the SUD-H1 use DH2.


----------



## IlSol

Quote: 





ilsol said:


> Turns out the process of exchange of dt 770 pro 80 for dt 990 pro 250 isn't running as smooth as i had expected. I'm still willing to fight the battle if needed. I was actually thinking about getting and trying the dt 770 80 pro as scheduled and returning them if my tastes didn't match the bass amount of those headphones but i discovered that in that online shop the refund is only up to 70% if the product has been opened so i guess i'll have to trust your experience and follow your suggestions


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp accepts Pro Logic II.
> As for only having Dolby Headphone 2, it's generally known to be only only DH worth using. DH1 sounds too packed in, and DH3 sounds like everything is too far away. That is why all DH products after the SUD-H1 use DH2.


 

 I wish Astro made the former point-well, the point about any and all supported formats-more obvious.
   
  I have a similar impression with those DH modes, but in foobar2000 with the Dolby Headphone wrapper + Channel Mixer plugins. Just replace DH3's "too far away" with "way too much reverb". However, that's music and not games, where I can better test the positioning/imaging of everything. For that, I'd prefer something with a little more flexibility, just so I can verify that DH2 really is the most practical out of the three modes like everyone thinks it is.
   
  The only concern is about DH2 still adding slight reverb. If you've ever played a PC game from the time when A3D and EAX were widely adopted, then you'd notice that it'll have plenty of reverb here and there, if the game developer thought it would be fitting for that room to be full of reverberation. Boosting that even further would probably not be ideal. (Heck, it even happens in newer games with software audio engines like Battlefield: Bad Company 2 when set to War Tapes.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IISol

I don't think the DT770 pro 80 will disappoint you.

edit: GAWDAMMIT, now the bottom of the pads are exerting too much pressure on my jawbone..., and while I was enjoying them for non-bassy genres, one trance track snuck into my current playlist, and just ruined it again for me. The DT990 Pros are definitely going back.

I'm seriously screwed. I probably won't even open the DT990/600, and just straight return it. Looks like nothing is going to be good. The D7000's pads get hot, the Beyers hurt my jaw... I'm left with nothing to satisfy me. Comfort is absolute priority, and I guess there's nothing other than clip ons that don't alienate my comfort in some way.


----------



## IlSol

Sorry to bother you again MLE, I realize how much you and the others in this thread have helped me so far but, probably because of my total inexperience (and great interest) in this field I can't seem to decide what's the best option for me. Today, firmly convinced the dt 990 pro 250 were my ideal headphones, I cancelled the order for the dt 770 80 pro (they were actually about to be shipped but luckily i had chosen the payment on delivery option). On the very moment the order was officially cancelled hesitation struck me more powerfully than ever before. I just want a good pair of headphones to enjoy playing with my xbox 360 (mainly offline) and watching movies and feel completely immersed during those activities so, yes, the "fun" factor you mentioned in the first posts is the factor that matters the most to me. The music i listen to isn't very bass heavy: i listen mainly to Eric Clapton, Dire Straits, Creedence Clearwater Revival and similar artists and my main thought while canceling the dt 770 80 pro order was that i was afraid of the prominent bass drowning everything else. Which of those two headphones should I buy?? Again, I do appreciate your patience, I promise you'll be in my end-year appreciation thoughts.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm seriously screwed. I probably won't even open the DT990/600, and just straight return it. Looks like nothing is going to be good. The D7000's pads get hot, the Beyers hurt my jaw... I'm left with nothing to satisfy me. Comfort is absolute priority, and I guess there's nothing other than clip ons that don't alienate my comfort in some way.


 

 The DT990 pros are very different from DT990/660 comfort wise?
   
  I never had a single problem with them hurting, nor any friends with very big heads. Maybe you should strech them a little to release clamp force?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 preserves the details better than the DT770 Pro. Regardless of your reservations, the DT990 sounds distinctly of a higher quality than the DT770 Pros. 

My recent comments are due to my ever changing preferences, but honestly, I don't think the DT990 Pro will steer you wrong, especially if the music you listen to isn't extremely bass dependent. Just wanna mention movies and games don't have continuous bass pounding like music does, so the bass is actually fantastic for those purposes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> The DT990 pros are very different from DT990/660 comfort wise?
> 
> I never had a single problem with them hurting, nor any friends with very big heads. Maybe you should strech them a little to release clamp force?




No, this is the exact problem I had with the Premium DT990's comfort. It was putting pressure on my jawbone. The size of the pads are just at the point where it rests on my jaw bone. There's no fix for that. 


I'm just super anal about comfort. I think taking all the headphones into account, the size of the Creative Aurvana Live pads are probably the most perfect, because they rest at a very comfortable spot. Too bad it's pleather.


----------



## IlSol

Finally ordering the dt 990 pro then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously based off sound alone, if I just wanted some game and move cans, these would be it. EASILY. Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt my new favorite sound for music and movies, due to the soundstage, airyness, and yet awesome bass. The D7000 ticks everything for me, except airyness and openess.

I actually have to say the surround cues on the DT990 Pro are slightly better than the Premium DT990. They are that good when paired with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I don't know when or why it happened, but it seems that I'm no longer even a mild basshead. Like seriously, just out of NOWHERE. The DT990 is over the top, the KSC35 is a little more than I want in bass now, and as a test, I started listening to my PC360's for music, which I NEVER liked for that purpose. I'm actually enjoying the PC360 MORE than the other two.

This leads me to believe, that I am now in the stage where the DT880/600 and maybe the HE500 would be the most ideal headphones for me.

What I'm going to do, is listen to the Premiums tomorrow, and the next day for as long as I can. I will see if this is a fluke, and if NOT, I will see if the Premiums bother me as much as I believe they did the last time I owned them, comfort-wise.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so I don't know when or why it happened, but it seems that I'm no longer even a mild basshead.


 


  Well, you are evolving or just changing 
   
  That reflects how much one changes in this long trip for the best can that matches your changing tastes 
   
  I really liked K702+E9, then tried K702+Lyr and loved it, then listened to LCD-2+Lyr and my journey ended.
   
  I didn't like DT990+Lyr that much (prefered DT990+E9), but well, that's another story.
   
  All this trip started looking for gaming cans, and finished without any can for gaming haha (well, ed8 does a VERY good job, but still). Maybe next year I will get a PC360... or a better DAC 
   
  Enjoy your trip MLE... again


----------



## paulkemp

After 270 pages and still going. You are a hard to please man. Incredible  It's so nice that somebody does this, and provides the rest of us with input. 

Does anybody know how to solve mic input with tre Earforce DSS? Would I have to stick with the Xbox lowering background sound when somebody speaks? Thx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> I didn't like *DT990*+Lyr that much (prefered *DT990*+Lyr), but well, that's another story




LOLWHUT?

edit: I C whut u did thar

Explain... though. The Lyr dulled the DT990 too much, right? Same issue I had with the D7000+Lyr.

Hell, not looking for another journey. Just something and call it a day. If the HE500 has just enough bass and treble (I'm still a fan of v-shaped curves, but a lot more subtle v-shape), this may be where I finish. If not, maybe the HE4 again, though it would cost more, as they'd need an amp immediately, whereas the HE500 would sound great off the E9 for now.

Kinda hoping the DT990 tomorrow redeems itself, that or the comfort is good enough so I exchange for a DT880/600. That would save me like $500.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> IISol
> I don't think the DT770 pro 80 will disappoint you.
> edit: GAWDAMMIT, now the bottom of the pads are exerting too much pressure on my jawbone..., and while I was enjoying them for non-bassy genres, one trance track snuck into my current playlist, and just ruined it again for me. The DT990 Pros are definitely going back.
> I'm seriously screwed. I probably won't even open the DT990/600, and just straight return it. Looks like nothing is going to be good. The D7000's pads get hot, the Beyers hurt my jaw... I'm left with nothing to satisfy me. Comfort is absolute priority, and I guess there's nothing other than clip ons that don't alienate my comfort in some way.


 


  Maybe you could switch the d7000 pads, or stretch your beyers out on a box to loosen the clamp?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





> I didn't like DT990+Lyr that much (prefered DT990+E9), but well, that's another story.


 
   
  My mistake... I meant E9 sounded better paired with DT990/600 for MY ears.
  Lyr (Valvo/Mullards/Lorenz)+DT990 sounded very bassy, Both me and another friend (the one that bought my E7/E9/DT990) heard distortions because there was too much bass. However, in the Lyr thread are many people that loves that combo.
  
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> LOLWHUT?
> edit: I C whut u did thar
> Explain... though. The Lyr dulled the DT990 too much, right? Same issue I had with the D7000+Lyr.
> Hell, not looking for another journey. Just something and call it a day. If the HE500 has just enough bass and treble (I'm still a fan of v-shaped curves, but a lot more subtle v-shape), this may be where I finish. If not, maybe the HE4 again, though it would cost more, as they'd need an amp immediately, whereas the HE500 would sound great off the E9 for now.
> Kinda hoping the DT990 tomorrow redeems itself, that or the comfort is good enough so I exchange for a DT880/600. That would save me like $500.


 
   
  For your sake, let's hope you are happy with DT990 or DT880
   
  Good thing is that they dropped the HE-500 price


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *Seriously based off sound alone, if I just wanted some game and move cans, these would be it. EASILY. Absolutely without a shadow of a doubt my new favorite sound for music and movies, due to the soundstage, airyness, and yet awesome bass. The D7000 ticks everything for me, except airyness and openess.*
> I actually have to say the surround cues on the DT990 Pro are slightly better than the Premium DT990. They are that good when paired with Dolby Headphone.


 


  Wait, which dt990 are you talking about?
   
  I'm assuming the Pro's, but i cant tell.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not the clamp. The Premiums didn't really even have clamp, but because the pads rested on my jaw, it caused discomfort. Mind you, it was more of nagging is issue, than a painful one.

I seriously believe the bass on the D7000 now would be to much for me now. As much as I absolutely loved it when I owned it, I did say that the bass could be just a little less quantity-wise, and I said that when I was basshead. Now, I don't think I'd love it like before.

Honestly, if I had $900 around, I'd buy the Lyr+HE4. It's actually cheaper to get the HE500 first.

But if all goes well, perhaps the Premium DT990 is all I need, or the Premium DT880, jawbone issues aside..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vonx said:


> Wait, which dt990 are you talking about?
> 
> I'm assuming the Pro's, but i cant tell.




You assume correctly.  The DT990 Pro reminds me a lot of the DT770 Pro 80 in terms of just how godly they sound in terms of surround positional cues. I did rate that aspect of the DT770 Pro 80s higher than ANY and every headphone I used ever. The DT990 Pro may be just as good, but I don't have the games that would really showcase this and make it a fact for me.

Obazavil, I was afraid of that. The Lyr definitely adds bass compared to the E9, which may have put the DT990/600 in DT990 Pro quantity of bass, which would make the repurchase moot for me. I guess the Lyr wouldn't be ideal for me then for the DT990s (maybe for the DT880s).


edit: I think if the Beyer T1 was in the price range of reality, those would actually be the perfect headphone for me.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You assume correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Lol, I just purchased the Asgard on basis of it being cheapest and also sounding as good with HE-500 as the Lyr does (according to MalVeaux, my secret headphone insider) and that should be it for me.
   
  Now, I'm just worried about treble spikes, since the asgard can make the treble hott on some headphones :O
   
  that would suck with the beyers, with their already hott treble 
   
  you can never win


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think the HE500's treble will ever reach DT990 treble, even with the Asgard, so I'd say you're safe.


----------



## Dillweed

So, after all of that crap I said before about going full bore for the 600-ohm DT 880s and a good amp to power them, then researching amps for a couple of days and overthinking things way too much, I decided to just order the 250-ohm version after all and I'll just plug them into the X-Fi. If I don't like the basic sound signature of the headphones, I have more cash left to try something else.


----------



## googleli

Just got this new toy 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Using my Westone ES5 on it.


----------



## obazavil

sweet!
   
  I want one 
   
  Quote: 





googleli said:


> Just got this new toy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





googleli said:


> Just got this new toy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  haha nice off topic
   
  maybe you should plug it into your mixamp or surround sound decoder and see how it sounds, if thats even possible


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess I forgot to mention the DT990s were supposed to be a bday present for myself yesterday. I turned 29. Waaaaah, almost 30. I still feel 18 yrs old. The big 3-0 scares me. XD

Speaking of the DT990, just got them in. Let's hope for the best. edit: Already can tell, the bass is more in line with the sound, making it easier on the ears. The bass is now absolutely perfect for me, just as I remember the DT990/600 to be. The treble is also a bit sharper than the DT990 Pros, so it's the trade off. 

Oh yes, the DT990/600's bass sounds like a bassy open can (quicker, and better textured), while the DT990 Pro's bass sounds like the closed can type (long decay, boomier), so the Pros are definitely for ultra bassheads in terms of overall bass presence.

The fit is definitely better on the Pros. I don't like that the Premiums just sort of sit on top of my head. The headband on the Pros is definitely more comfy.

I will keep the DT990/600. This is the type of sound I want. The treble could use a slight reduction, but it's something I was already used to. I'll have to find an amp that mellows out the treble just a smidge. Not super important. Man, I miss the sound off these. So much happier. Yep, I'm definitely keeping these.

edit: Wow, setting the E9 to low gain is BETTER than high gain with the DT990s. I been so used to using high gain all this time. Low gain sounds less compressed and more fleshed out. What? I may not even need a new amp!






As for Mixamp on Vita:

It would work if the Vita had a Pro Logic II option. IF it did, you'd have to have a wired Mixamp with an RCA in, as well as a having an RCA to 3.5mm cable. On the Mixamp 5.8, you'd need an 3.5mm to RCA cable + an RCA to optical converter box.

Pretty sure The Vita won't have that option though. It definitely can, as PLII works with all stereo signals, but I don't see devs using it, because they wouldn't think people would attach stuff to it like that. Maybe I'll be proven wrong when FPS games start making their way onto the Vita.

The Vita will most likely stick to a "Headphone Surround" mode within individual games, which wouldn't come close to Dolby Headphone.

Oh, I'm super jealous. I want a Vita... terribly.


----------



## NumLock

I like the clamping force with the Pros. The premiums are too loose for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna mention that the Mixamp 5.8 alone has a hard time powering the 600ohm DT990. That's even with the Mixamp pulling its power on the game audio. This wasn't an issue with the wired Mixamp (though intense bass made it clip at times). The DT990 with the Mixamp 5.8 at max volume is barely what I consider moderate levels. Definitely need to attach the E9 to juice it well.

The 250ohm can go quite loud without maxing volume, so take that into account.

Funny, the wired Mixamp drove the 32 and 600ohms to the same volume virtually at the same spot on the volume knob.


----------



## Rebel975

I find the wired mixamp sometimes clip on heavy bass too. This is with me running it at 60/40 chat to game volume, though I do have the volume knob at 100%.


----------



## Evarin

MLE, what about the HD800's? Aren't Sens known for having rather tame base? The only reason I haven't been considering them is they are open cans. I don't know if you've played with the full Tesla (T1, T5P, etc) line either, I imagine they might have a can or two which might interest you.


----------



## autoteleology

Yesterday, I played my friend, who owned a pair of Astra A40s and a Mixamp (while I had a stunning XB500 and NOTHING ELSE), in MW3, and I absolutely destroyed him.

That's pretty bad, eh?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evarin said:


> MLE, what about the HD800's? Aren't Sens known for having rather tame base? The only reason I haven't been considering them is they are open cans. I don't know if you've played with the full Tesla (T1, T5P, etc) line either, I imagine they might have a can or two which might interest you.




With my horrific barely minimum wage job, there is no chance I'll ever be able to try anything in that price range. The D7000 was a terrible impulse buy which I couldn't afford.

If I had the funds, the ONLY headphone I'm interested in, is the Beyer T1. Nothing else matters but that headphone for me.


----------



## autoteleology

Mad Lust Envy, based on your experience with the AD700s, do you think that the A700s (apparently the closed version of the AD700s) would be a good alternative to the AD700s, seeing as how, according to reviews, they have MOAR BASS at the expense of some highs (and probably some soundstage, being closed)?

I liked what I heard on the OP of this thread about the AD700s, but if the bass is really that anemic and weak, I'll never be able to appreciate them after using XB500s for gaming for so long.


----------



## rabidgamer

Anyone ever tried the Ultrasone HFi780's with the Mixamp? Thinking about buying them for music, but wondering if they'd be a fun set of headphones for single player games... not tried the PC360 with a SP game yet and I'm sure it'd be more than fine, just wondering really.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Once again (not your fault), but the A700 is NOT a closed version of the AD700. They sound nothing alike, and are from different A-T lines. I couldn't say how good the A700 is, but you can't compare them to the AD700. Last I remember the A700 has more in common with the lower end AD500 in terms of performance.

The XB500 is a hurdle you'll have to pass at some point. It's all bass, not much else. If you want stellar cans that will maintain a lot of bass, the DT990 Pro would be it. If you must have closed with a lot of bass, the DT770 Pro 80. Both of those offer some amazing positional cues.


----------



## paulkemp

Anyone tried the FA-003s with the mixamp?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> With my horrific barely minimum wage job, there is no chance I'll ever be able to try anything in that price range. The D7000 was a terrible impulse buy which I couldn't afford.
> If I had the funds, the ONLY headphone I'm interested in, is the Beyer T1. Nothing else matters but that headphone for me.


 

 I figured anyone with an unlimited budget would ask for an SR-009 or Orpheus HE90...then again, if they don't use velour pads, that may be enough grounds for disqualification in your case.
   
  Anyway, I just got the SU-DH1 today. Sure enough, it was everything I expected, with the ability to hear surround sound with typical headphones out of my old Xbox for once. I could distinctly hear whether sounds were to the front or rear. (Haven't tested it yet with my GCN/Wii games and Pro Logic II, though.) For that, I'll keep it.
   
  Right now, I'm doing further testing on my PC to see how it compares to CMSS-3D Headphone (and also to see how well Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect work on X-Fi cards; turns out they work fairly well).
   
  So far, I've found that CMSS-3D Headphone fares a lot better imaging-wise in DirectSound3D and OpenAL titles, especially regarding the sense of height; can't say I'm all that surprised when one has access to a 3D sound space and the other only works with 5.1. In XAudio2, FMOD, and other software audio-driven titles, they're about even. Both make the upper midrange sound kind of weird in a tone generator (tinny, perhaps?), but I don't actually notice this while gaming.
   
  In terms of hiss, I actually don't hear any with the HTF600 unless I turn it up near maximum, by which point those headphones will be deafeningly loud. Unfortunately, my Stax setup does pick it up even with the SU-DH1 volume knob turned all the way down and the amp turned up a bit...but weirdly enough, it's gone now after fiddling a bit with the SU-DH1 volume knob. I'm not sure what went on there, but another thing I noticed was that it seemed like the hiss went away after I actually played something. It's still not the cleanest analog output out there, certainly no contest compared to a half-decent sound card, and I can only wonder how well the Mixamp and Ear Force DSS fare by comparison.
   
  I almost forgot to mention: the SU-DH1 will accept 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, and 88.2 KHz, but NOT 96 KHz if that matters to anyone.
   
  In any case, what I've learned from this is that Dolby Headphone does indeed deliver at what it's supposed to do, and I'd definitely suggest keeping such a DAC/DSP around if you're into modern console gaming.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Yesterday, I played my friend, who owned a pair of Astra A40s and a Mixamp (while I had a stunning XB500 and NOTHING ELSE), in MW3, and I absolutely destroyed him.
> That's pretty bad, eh?


 


  Talent beats superiority in headphones. 
   
  I'd say the game is 70% talent/reaction time/visual ques, and 30% sound.
   
  However, a 30% increase in your game is a big jump. 
   
  And, the A40's really arent that good at all.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Mad Lust Envy, based on your experience with the AD700s, do you think that the A700s (apparently the closed version of the AD700s) would be a good alternative to the AD700s, seeing as how, according to reviews, they have MOAR BASS at the expense of some highs (and probably some soundstage, being closed)?
> I liked what I heard on the OP of this thread about the AD700s, but if the bass is really that anemic and weak, I'll never be able to appreciate them after using XB500s for gaming for so long.


 


  It's not about appreciating their sound. Its about what they do for improving your game.
   
  It sounds like you play FPS shooters, which means you want something bass_ light _that wont drown out footsteps.
   
  AD700 has the perfect sound signature for sound whoring, albeit a little harsh in the highs at times.
   
  Sacrificing detail and soundstage is not something you want to do, and increasing bass isnt really either.
   
  It's something you just have to tolerate, because hearing someones footsteps before they hear yours can be the difference between life and death in that game, especially against good players. 
   
  How about you just use the AD700 for competitive FPS gaming and use your XB500's for casual and recreational gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wise words, Vonx.

The XB500 isn't going to give you any competitive improvement.

Bass certainly not a bad thing, but you'd want unobtrusive bass, that doesn't drown out the details. A perfect example of the bass you want is DT880 and PREMIUM DT990 type bass. It's strong, but clearly separated from mids and highs. The D7000 has great big bass that doesn't drown out details, but it's so big that you will be distracted by it.


----------



## autoteleology

I don't use the XB500s out of any sort of personal preference... I use them because they're the only headphones I own. I'm just saying that a complete in utter change from EXTRA BASS to "Dude, where's my bass?" would be quite the shocking transition.

In fact, after listening to them for hours a day for nearly half a year, I hate them. I can't stand them, but I need them because my only alternative is TV speakers, which are simply unacceptable if I want to maintain any semblance or facade of clarity in my sound.

Once I get a job, that situation will change.

Ironically, the headphone I asked to get for Christmas is the PRO700mk2, so... maybe in retrospect I could have made my choice with gaming in mind. 




> I'd say the game is 70% talent/reaction time/visual ques, and 30% sound.
> 
> However, a 30% increase in your game is a big jump.




And just for fun, judging by this, my MW3 K/D, by my calculations, would rise up to a fairly meaty 2.34 (1.80x1.30), or even a 2.57 (1.80/0.70, though this is generous because it implies that I'm missing the full 30% of the sound game), so I really might want to improve my sound situation as soon as possible.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> I don't use the XB500s out of any sort of personal preference... I use them because they're the only headphones I own. I'm just saying that a complete in utter change from EXTRA BASS to "Dude, where's my bass?" would be quite the shocking transition.
> In fact, after listening to them for hours a day for nearly half a year, I hate them. I can't stand them, but I need them because my only alternative is TV speakers, which are simply unacceptable if I want to maintain any semblance or facade of clarity in my sound.
> Once I get a job, that situation will change.
> Ironically, the headphone I asked to get for Christmas is the PRO700mk2, so... maybe in retrospect I could have made my choice with gaming in mind.
> ...


 


  Yes, you should.
   
  I myself have the ax720's, which are more than I even need, and I have a 3.99 overall k/d and a 4.05 in free-for-all, with a 6.7 w/l, ranked probably around 500 in the world now, but was once in the upper 40's, (yes 40's, with one zero) during the first week and had the second best k/d in the top 100
   
  Of course, I have also been playing cod since the cod 4 days and have played GB with some of the worlds greatest teams to get that good (think bT performance, team violent apprehension)
   
  I havn't played in about 4 days tho since i got banned for innappropriate bio 
   
  I get XBL back on the 21st
   
  To be perfectly honest tho, ive gotten sick to death of mw3


----------



## autoteleology

Haa.... I've never played much with anyone who was any good... I have the highest K/D on my friends list and I've never been in a clan. You could probably teach me a lot. 

My Gamertag is LlamaDethMob1le, if you're interested.

Speaking of the AX720's, I did a Google search for them, and do they come with enough cords?


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Haa.... I've never played much with anyone who was any good... I have the highest K/D on my friends list and I've never been in a clan. You could probably teach me a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Its not as many as you think, and they arent as abrasive as you think. The optical cord is very short, and goes from the back of the decoder to your xbox HDMI cable
   
  One is just a power outlet, another is for the headphones itself to connect to the decoder unit, and the adapter cord you will never use unless you connect to a PC with them.
   
  The only cord that protrudes out from behind all your equipment is the headphone cord itself, which is rather long but doesnt really get in the way of anything. 
   
  My gamertag is RID(lowercase L)CULE, so it looks like RIDlCULE. 
   
  You can add me and I can accept it when i get back on after the ban ends, but my FL might be full


----------



## autoteleology

So, thanks to this guide, I've decided that when I get the money for a gaming can, it'll be the HD598. I was willing to go for the AD700's until I read that they were designed for the Jolly Green Giant, and since I have a teeny head, that was just a deal breaker, lol.

And yeah, I sent you an FR, but your friends list is full.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> So, thanks to this guide, I've decided that when I get the money for a gaming can, it'll be the HD598. I was willing to go for the AD700's until I read that they were designed for the Jolly Green Giant, and since I have a teeny head, that was just a deal breaker, lol.
> And yeah, I sent you an FR, but your friends list is full.


 


  That's a great choice!
   
  There are some methods of reducing the size leak on the AD700, but when you get the money, you will be much happier with the hd598 anyway.


----------



## timbowman1

I'm reallly confused right now. Reallly confused.
 I want to buy my first ever gaming headset for my PC. I usually use stereo or some surround sound speakers that I have (decent).
  My budget is around ~140. I would be willing to dish out ~160 IF they are worth it for SURE.
 I've done some searching around and I have a couple of headsets in mind. Please give me some advice here, this is my first headphone/headset buy.
   
  Creative Aurvana Live
  Astros A30
  Siberia V2 - (with USB??)
  Logitech G930
  Logitech F540
  Psyko Kripton
  Razer Megalodon

 Please recommend others if they are better!!

 thanks!!!


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





timbowman1 said:


> I'm reallly confused right now. Reallly confused.
> I want to buy my first ever gaming headset for my PC. I usually use stereo or some surround sound speakers that I have (decent).
> My budget is around ~140. I would be willing to dish out ~160 IF they are worth it for SURE.
> I've done some searching around and I have a couple of headsets in mind. Please give me some advice here, this is my first headphone/headset buy.
> ...


 

 Did you even read the original thread?
   
  If your budgets $160, reach out and see if you can get either the PC360's or the HD-598's, which ever one you can get for cheaper.
   
  If you can get an hd598 for around the same price as the pc360's, get those, and then just buy a cheap clip-on mic from amazon


----------



## timbowman1

Quote: 





vonx said:


> Did you even read the original thread?
> 
> If your budgets $160, reach out and see if you can get either the PC360's or the HD-598's, which ever one you can get for cheaper.
> 
> If you can get an hd598 for around the same price as the pc360's, get those, and then just buy a cheap clip-on mic from amazon


 
  Okay thanks man! I'm really noob at this stuff. I'm confused as to what Dolby Headphone is. Would that be included with the headphone or would I need to get an amp or something? I know the question probably sounds really stupid..


----------



## Apollo33

Hi all, first post. Thank you to Mad Lust Envy for all of the reviews and work in this thread! It's definitely appreciated.
   
  So, I'm really thinking about getting the Mixamp Pro / PC360 combo. It seems like this is the best you can get if chat is a priority. (I'll be using them with my PS3 for mostly Modern Warfare 3, and I'd like to play team games with a clan.) But I'm also kind of looking for reasons _not_ to spend $350 right now. Here are my questions/concerns.
   
  1. Mix Pro is $130 and PC360 is currently $217 on Amazon. Can anyone tell me if the price has dropped a decent amount lower on them recently? I know I've seen the 598s range from $230 down to $175, where they are currently.... Okay I take that back—earlier today they were $175, now they're back to $230! Which reinforces my point of widely varying prices and what I should aim for.
   
  2. Will either of them be seeing an upgrade soon? For example, the A40 System 2011 edition was released in January, so could they be releasing a 2012 edition next month with a new Mixamp? (A bass boost would be nice.) And a PC370 (based on the 598?) would mean a good discount on the 360.
   
  3. The Mix Pro does drive the PC360s well with chat enabled, unlike the K/Q701, right?
   
  4. Are the PC360s just as good as the 595s for music? i.e. they would be a nice upgrade from my HD280s for music? That's one big plus, since I've also been looking at upgrading my music headphones.
   
  Thanks if anyone can answer these questions and hopefully they haven't been asked a bunch of times. I really couldn't read through 188 pages.


----------



## Eric_C

Dolby Headphone is a kind of processing. I understand it to mean "simulating a Dolby surround sound on headphones". It's not possible for it to be in the headphones; it's processing, and strictly speaking, headphones don't process sound. 
  (Only a few exceptions may exist, but they would be processors attached to the headphones. Headphones themselves are more like small, passive speakers...)


----------



## timbowman1

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Dolby Headphone is a kind of processing. I understand it to mean "simulating a Dolby surround sound on headphones". It's not possible for it to be in the headphones; it's processing, and strictly speaking, headphones don't process sound.
> (Only a few exceptions may exist, but they would be processors attached to the headphones. Headphones themselves are more like small, passive speakers...)


 

 Thanks for the nice explanation!

 Would it suffice if I bought an Asus Xonar DG along with a pair of PC360s? Anyone have any word on this?


----------



## Ruahrc

Finally got around to doing a cable mod on my PC360s.  Now they're even better paired with the mixamp because there isn't a ridiculous 9 foot cord between the two now- just a short 2.5-3ft cable, which is also detachable/interchangeable for a longer cable when I want to (i.e. when using them on my PC).  It was a seriously tricky solder job (for me at least) but I got it done and am happy with the results.  No more tripping hazard yay!
   
  BTW I haven't really seen any mention of it here but I did recently have the opportunity to try out the Logitech G930 wireless headset briefly.  My friend bought them as an upgrade to his old headphones and he brought them over for a little to test.  At first I plugged them into my mac which worked without needing drivers, but I could not adjust the sound or test 3D.  In this form, the sound was pretty marginal, as it seemed extremely heavy in the mids.  Like there was a huge peak at 1kHz or something.  Honestly if this test was a true indicator of the headphones' natural response, they seemed pretty tinny and a little disappointing.  However, I am not sure if this test was truly representative because it was hooked into the Mac, with no drivers.  Next we hooked it up to my friend's PC and installed the logitech control software installed and was able to do a little EQ adjustment on them, and they balanced out a lot better.  It could handle good bass without distortion and soundstage was pretty good in a brief test using the opening sequence of Skyrim.  As you pan around while you're riding in the wagon, you can hear the voices from your wagon-mates rotate around you.
   
  Features-wise this headset is definitely quite good, with the true all-wireless design and even some programmable buttons on the headset for use in your applications/games.  AFAIK it is only a 2.4GHz transmitter frequency, but the reception never faltered or broke up if I walked anywhere in my apartment (to compare, my Mixamp 5.8+PC360 also works perfectly anywhere in my apt, but the TB PX5's 2.4GHz connection did break up and lose connection in some parts of my apt.)  You can toggle the DH processing via a button/slider on the headset itself so easy to switch between DH and straight stereo for games/music, respectively.  Also, like the PC360, the mic has a handy mute by just lifting it up out of the way, and also has a little red LED on the end of it.  Unfortunately it is only compatible with PCs (Macs too?) since the receiver is USB only.  No separate optical in, maybe if you ran an optical cable from your console into your PC's digital input and then set up the sound output in Windows properly it would work, but there might be decoding issues with that setup too.
   
  Comfort-wise they were decent.  Having gotten used to them somewhat, I did prefer my PC360s since they were lighter and I also like the velvet ear pads vs. the faux leather that the G930 has.  But I didn't notice anything particularly unergonomic about the G930.  The earcups are not round/oval, but squarish, and did seem a little smaller than the PC360 so if you have large ears it may be a little awkward or your ear may rub up against the edge of the padding.  I didn't have any trouble with this but YMMV.  This headset is a closed circumaural design and it does isolate exterior sound very well for circumaural headphones.  I was pretty impressed by this.  They feel pretty solid build-wise, at least on par with the PC360s.
   
  The only other main criticism I had was that there was clear amp hiss, at least as compared to my PC360+mixamp 5.8 solution.  Like the Turtle Beach PX5 I had tried earlier, you could hear some noise floor when there was no sound playing.  I was not able to do enough testing to see if this impacted quiet passages in games, but I will say subjectively that it was not as severe as the PX5 amp hiss.
   
  Anyway it seems like a decent headset if you are a PC-gamer only.  For the price (about the same as a Mixamp 5.8 itself) they seem like a pretty good value, especially if you're looking for a set of totally wire-free headphones.  Their wireless design makes them very convenient to use.  Was surprised they haven't gotten any mention so far in this thread (?) so I thought I'd offer my short experiences.
   
  Ruahrc


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





apollo33 said:


> 1. Mix Pro is $130 and PC360 is currently $217 on Amazon. Can anyone tell me if the price has dropped a decent amount lower on them recently? I know I've seen the 598s range from $230 down to $175, where they are currently.... Okay I take that back—earlier today they were $175, now they're back to $230! Which reinforces my point of widely varying prices and what I should aim for.
> 
> 2. Will either of them be seeing an upgrade soon? For example, the A40 System 2011 edition was released in January, so could they be releasing a 2012 edition next month with a new Mixamp? (A bass boost would be nice.) And a PC370 (based on the 598?) would mean a good discount on the 360.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey,

 1)  Lowest I've seen PC360s drop to is $169 new.  Sometimes used/refurbs pop up on Amazon for a similiar price.  So Aim for ~$170.
   
  2)  Probably not.  The A40 "upgrade" was just squishier pads...and it's debatable whether it was even an upgrade, and not a downgrade.  I did hear a rumor that PC360 is coming out with a Console headset, but I dunno....
   
  3)  Yes.  I even have the Q701 and the mixamp drives it OK (~40% master volume with game at full balance).
   
  4)  Hmm.....HD595s and PC360s are different sounding.  I imagine they would be an improvement over HD280s, but I don't know much about them.  They are super open though and leak like crazy.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





timbowman1 said:


> Okay thanks man! I'm really noob at this stuff. I'm confused as to what Dolby Headphone is. Would that be included with the headphone or would I need to get an amp or something? I know the question probably sounds really stupid..


 


  just buy a used astro mix amp from amazon or ebay, try to find one from a trusted seller.
   
  You need it to connect your headphones and get surround sound on console (PS3 or 360), which is the primary use for this thread, but if your a PC gamer, you might want to look into a sound card instead.
   
  Dolby headphone is a surround sound decoder unit that allows you to have simulated surround sound for movies and games.


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





apollo33 said:


> Hi all, first post. Thank you to Mad Lust Envy for all of the reviews and work in this thread! It's definitely appreciated.
> 
> So, I'm really thinking about getting the Mixamp Pro / PC360 combo. It seems like this is the best you can get if chat is a priority. (I'll be using them with my PS3 for mostly Modern Warfare 3, and I'd like to play team games with a clan.) But I'm also kind of looking for reasons _not_ to spend $350 right now. Here are my questions/concerns.
> 
> ...


 


  hd598 is a clear step up in sound quality, but they are both equally useful for gaming (like sound whoring, hearing footsteps, detail retrieval, etc)
   
  If you want a mic attached to your headset and are going to use it for almost nothing but gaming, get the pc360
   
  if you want to use it to enjoy music as well and dont mind either not having a mic or buying a clip-on one from amazon, get the hd598
   
  id say the hd598 is the better all-purpose option, and the best sounding of the two
   
  I found a tritton decoder box for sale on ebay from a big seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tritton-Ax-720-Decoder-Box-/320775695172?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item4aafb8ab44#ht_642wt_952
   
  It doesnt really say whether it includes cords, but it is said to work properly, so maybe you could inquire whether it comes with the proper cords to run it from the seller and you might have yourself a real bargain right there 
   
  The tritton mix amp is every bit as good as the astro mixamp, and it actually might power headphones a little better


----------



## timbowman1

Quote: 





vonx said:


> just buy a used astro mix amp from amazon or ebay, try to find one from a trusted seller.
> 
> You need it to connect your headphones and get surround sound on console (PS3 or 360), which is the primary use for this thread, but if your a PC gamer, you might want to look into a sound card instead.
> 
> Dolby headphone is a surround sound decoder unit that allows you to have simulated surround sound for movies and games.


 


 I am a PC gamer. How would the Asus XONAR DG perform in terms of quality? I'm already hitting my budget with the purchase of the PC360's, I can't afford anything else too expensive.
 thanks!!


----------



## Vonx

Having that said, you know, you could just the ax720 combo.
   
  its what I use and its more than I even need, sounds great and you can get the whole package brand new for the same price as just a astro mixamp
   
  It doesnt sound very good when its not on dolby digital, so it wont be the be all end all do-everything headphone for music and whatnot
   
  but if your purpose is mostly gaming, its an amazing place to start, and if you decide you want a better headphone down the road, you know the suggested upline


----------



## Vonx

Quote: 





timbowman1 said:


> I am a PC gamer. How would the Asus XONAR DG perform in terms of quality? I'm already hitting my budget with the purchase of the PC360's, I can't afford anything else too expensive.
> thanks!!


 


  I don't know hardly anuything about soundcards, since im a console gamer, but from what I understand, those headphones would probably sound pretty damned good on your standard one.
   
  I use the Fischer Audio FA-011's for PC gaming when I play stuff like starcraft and League of Legends, and I find that they have just as good if not better positioning and soundstage as my ax720's do on console, and sound better quality as well..
   
  I have a very basic sound card that came with my computer, by the way
   
  However, I noticed that they dont sound very good through my tritton decoder box on console, which is weird, but I bought them for music enjoyment anyway, and they do wonderfully for that
   
  The fact that they do so well for PC gaming was just an added bonus to an already amazing purchase


----------



## timbowman1

Quote: 





vonx said:


> I don't know hardly anuything about soundcards, since im a console gamer, but from what I understand, those headphones would probably sound pretty damned good on your standard one.
> 
> I use the Fischer Audio FA-011's for PC gaming when I play stuff like starcraft and League of Legends, and I find that they have just as good if not better positioning and soundstage as my ax720's do on console, and sound better quality as well..
> 
> ...


 

 I don't have a sound card at all, just integrated mobo. Xonar comes with Dolby Headphone, and I really want to experience this. I guess ill just do it!


----------



## SteelRain

This thread has been endlessly useful guys(MLE especially), and am just wanting verification that i have made the right choice with what i have almost decided to buy. I will mostly use this on xbox 360 though i plan on testing out pc gaming when i get my HP pavilion 6024tx.
   
  DT990 PRO 250ohm + antlion mic mod + astro mix amp(or alternatively leave my turtle beach x41 processor and get a steel series audio mixer) + fiio e9 and e7 combo. How well would this combo work/sound? I realised how bad my x41s sound after using the superlux 668bs for a while and want a serious upgrade.
   
  Also just wondering about the DAC processing of the e7. Wouldn't it be obsolete in the face of the turtle beach dolby processor as it would be already take care of it? After being converted to analogue signal by the turtle beach/astro processor wouldn't the e7 be useless? or does a passthrough occur? Is this how i would set it up? xbox 360>decoder>DAC>Amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's right. The E7 would not be used in that setup. Just the E9 will suffice. Only get the E7 if you need a DAC for non gaming purposes on PC, though you would do better with an E10 for that. I have not upgraded from the E7 because I'm holding out for the E17.

Just remember, the DT990 Pro has a LOT of bass.


----------



## calpis

Might be a good idea to amend the first post with devices that support DH (for consoles) and allow the use of any headphone.
   
  Astro Mixamp and 5.8, TurtleBeach Earforce DSS, JVC/Victor SU-DH1, Tritton AX720, certain receivers from Harman Kardon, Denon, and Marantz.
   
  Or maybe not since it's actually a pretty short list...


----------



## paulkemp

mad lust envy said:


> That's right. The E7 would not be used in that setup. Just the E9 will suffice...




So using a amp after the mixamp is necessary?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





paulkemp said:


> So using a amp after the mixamp is necessary?


 


  Only for hard-to-drive cans, such as Beyers, or K70x/Q701
   
  If money is a problem, just get AX720 and be happy ($130).
  The other not-so-cheap option is mixamp + PC360 ($130+$200=$330).


----------



## paulkemp

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Only for hard-to-drive cans, such as Beyers, or K70x/Q701


 
   But would't something like the E7 increase the performance? Inbetween the mixamp and the cans? Even for low impediance headphones?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





paulkemp said:


> But would't something like the E7 increase the performance? Inbetween the mixamp and the cans? Even for low impediance headphones?


 

 Not at all.
   
  MixAmp amplifier is pretty good, you won't need a 2nd amplifier in the chain at all.
  The reasons why some ppl here suggest E9 after mixamp for K70x and DT990/600 is because of distorsions in the sound for lack of "juice" that gets fixed with a more powerful amplifier feeding the cans. For low impendance headphones MixAmp is more than enough.


----------



## timbowman1

I'm sorry for asking too many questions :C
  I just want to confirm it with you guys. I'm going to buy a PC360 with a Xonar DG for Dolby Headphone. Is there anything wrong about this setup? You seem to know a lot of technical details and stuff like DAC (?).
 Thanks


----------



## Ruahrc

I think that setup will be just fine.  I use almost the exact same setup on my PC- PC360 headset plus Xonar U3, which is ASUS' USB sound card (I have to use a USB sound card since my computer is an SFF mITX gaming case and only has a single expansion slot for a graphics card).  I'm pretty sure the Xonar DG is at least equal and most likely better than the U3 that I use.
   
  I've actually been pretty satisfied with the Asus sound hardware.  The software/drivers are far, far superior to the Creative stuff and they also implement DH which at least gives a consistent sound experience across platforms (i.e. DH on the consoles, and DH on the PC too)


----------



## NamelessPFG

While the Xonar DG is hard to beat in terms of price to performance, I've found Dolby Headphone inferior to CMSS-3D Headphone in positioning when it comes to DirectSound3D and OpenAL titles.
   
  However, when it's software-driven audio like XAudio2 or FMOD (like most current games, probably because it's easier for cross-platform development that way), they're about even, mostly because you're only getting 5.1/7.1 at the most instead of a proper 3D sound space.
   
  In terms of drivers...given the existence of these modified Xonar drivers, Asus may not fare any better than Creative in the driver department after all. (Is there some sort of unwritten rule that says sound card drivers have to suck?)


----------



## Apollo33

Thanks for the responses, *chicolom* and *Vonx*.


----------



## Ruahrc

Didn't know about those drivers nameless.  I guess they don't really apply to me though since my U3 uses the same chip as the U1, which isn't in those drivers.  Anyhow, I still say on the whole the ASUS drivers are far superior to anything Creative ever made.  On my setup at least, the ASUS utility was very small and lightweight.  There were two processes run by ASUS.  One was the little configuration utility itself, which minimized to the system tray.  You can set up your sound prefs, apply EQ, etc. there.  The other process was a monitoring process that detected the presence of the USB device.  When the USB device was unplugged, the configuration utility automatically closes.  When you plug it back in, the monitoring process detects this and boots up the configuration utility back into your system tray.
   
  But since I'm anal and hate ANY extraneous icons in my system tray (I only have 3- windows sound icon, windows network icon, and MSI afterburner) I went one step further.  Once I set up my sound settings the way I wanted (applied a slight bit of EQ and set up DH processing), these settings seem to be saved somewhere, since everything continues to work fine even if I manually shut down the two ASUS processes via the task manager.  Since I don't need to change anything around, I just blocked the monitoring process from starting upon windows boot.  The result is, everything works perfectly with no processes involved.  When I plug the U3 in, windows switches the sound output to that device (since I set it up to be the default output device) and DH is already configured since I had done that earlier in the ASUS configuration utility.  But since I turned off the monitoring process, the configuration utility doesn't actually load (no need for it to load if I don't need to make changes to the settings).  So everything works automatically and zero needed processes.  FAR better than the Creative crap.  Even if you left the processes to run, their memory overhead is very small.  It's totally unnecessary in my system with 8GB RAM installed, but like I said I HATE having any unnecessary system tray icons, and go through extra steps to keep as little as possible from appearing there.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





timbowman1 said:


> I'm sorry for asking too many questions :C
> I just want to confirm it with you guys. I'm going to buy a PC360 with a Xonar DG for Dolby Headphone. Is there anything wrong about this setup? You seem to know a lot of technical details and stuff like DAC (?).
> Thanks


 

 The Sennheiser PC360 has gone way up on price, best I can find is $215.
   
  Go to the Electronics Expo website, put the Senn HD558 into the cart, use the coupon code "BOUNTII".
  Should be around $80 less then the PC360, I'm sure you can get a decent mic for $15 to $25.
   
  Asus Xonar DG is about the best bang for the buck sound card.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ruahrc said:


> Didn't know about those drivers nameless.  I guess they don't really apply to me though since my U3 uses the same chip as the U1, which isn't in those drivers.  Anyhow, I still say on the whole the ASUS drivers are far superior to anything Creative ever made.  On my setup at least, the ASUS utility was very small and lightweight.  There were two processes run by ASUS.  One was the little configuration utility itself, which minimized to the system tray.  You can set up your sound prefs, apply EQ, etc. there.  The other process was a monitoring process that detected the presence of the USB device.  When the USB device was unplugged, the configuration utility automatically closes.  When you plug it back in, the monitoring process detects this and boots up the configuration utility back into your system tray.
> 
> But since I'm anal and hate ANY extraneous icons in my system tray (I only have 3- windows sound icon, windows network icon, and MSI afterburner) I went one step further.  Once I set up my sound settings the way I wanted (applied a slight bit of EQ and set up DH processing), these settings seem to be saved somewhere, since everything continues to work fine even if I manually shut down the two ASUS processes via the task manager.  Since I don't need to change anything around, I just blocked the monitoring process from starting upon windows boot.  The result is, everything works perfectly with no processes involved.  When I plug the U3 in, windows switches the sound output to that device (since I set it up to be the default output device) and DH is already configured since I had done that earlier in the ASUS configuration utility.  But since I turned off the monitoring process, the configuration utility doesn't actually load (no need for it to load if I don't need to make changes to the settings).  So everything works automatically and zero needed processes.  FAR better than the Creative crap.  Even if you left the processes to run, their memory overhead is very small.  It's totally unnecessary in my system with 8GB RAM installed, but like I said I HATE having any unnecessary system tray icons, and go through extra steps to keep as little as possible from appearing there.


 

 Well, X-Fi drivers in my experience aren't COMPLETE crap, but I don't get what's with the mode system (Why do I need to be in Game Mode for hardware-accelerated audio? Why do I need to be in Audio Creation Mode to have ASIO available?) that gets locked up every so often (can't switch modes). Also, there's bloat, but modern driver packages (at least with the X-Fi Forte and Titanium HD) can at least trim it down a little. The only extra system tray icon I have is the Volume Panel, and I wouldn't install that if it weren't my main means of switching modes and enabling/disabling CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  Still, I cannot deny the bloat, and there's also the chance that because I've been using the Auzentech X-Fi cards and the Titanium HD, the drivers don't suck as much as they could, especially with Creative's PCI card. At least I don't notice any hisses, pops, crackles, or whatnot that weren't originally in the source to begin with. (It's also still a lot better than, say, trying to use an Aureal-based card under 2000/XP or later. Good luck with that...)
   
  I suppose I'm just willing to put up with a bit of extra crap now and then if that's what it takes to make my games sound right. (Some might think I'm a bit too obsessed with video game audio in the sense that I would be more than happy to collect a particular revision of the Sound Blaster AWE32 with an ASP/CSP, a genuine Yamaha OPL3 FM synth, and no bugged wavetable header, a Gravis Ultrasound, and a Roland MT-32, CM-32L, or LAPC-I LA synth at the minimum, just to have all my DOS game bases covered.)


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Sennheiser PC360 has gone way up on price, best I can find is $215.
> 
> Go to the Electronics Expo website, put the Senn HD558 into the cart, use the coupon code "BOUNTII".
> Should be around $80 less then the PC360, I'm sure you can get a decent mic for $15 to $25.
> ...


 

 PC360 can be found at $200 from razordogdeals at ebay, but $80 off on hd598 sounds good


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> PC360 can be found at $200 from razordogdeals at ebay, but $80 off on hd598 sounds good


 


  It's 5*5*8 though, not 5*9*8


----------



## Evarin

Just picked up the Denon AH-D7000 from an authorized dealer new open in-box for 585.00 + 10 bucks shipping. Not sure if that is a great price or not, but I looked around and couldn't beat it. I THINK I may be still able to register them for the manufacturer's warranty. I also ordered the Grado adapter to take them from the large plug to the small ones.
   
  Now I just need to settle on a portable amp. I've heard good things about the E7. Anyone think I can do better for near the same price range?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E7 isn't much of an amp, more a good dac with an okay amp. The Fiio E11 would be better, though if you don't need portable, the E9 is great with the D7000. I loved it with the E9 over the Lyr.


----------



## kork

Thanks for a great guide Mad Lust Envy.
   
  My brother has expressed interest in a gaming headset for the XBOX 360 over the past few months. He mainly plays FPS and sports games. After browsing here for a few days, I have concluded that a nice pair of headphones with a clip-on mic would probably do the job better than a generic headset.
   
   
  However, I am at a loss. Since I am on a relatively limited budget, I need to decide between:
   
   
  A relatively cheap (albeit good-quality) pair of headphones, such as the Koss KSC75s, coupled with a mixamp/mic...
   
  or
   
  Higher-end headphones, such as the Samson SR850s or ATH-AD700s, possibly without the mixamp...
   
   
  (TLDR: Not sure whether to get inexpensive headphones w/ a mixamp or a better pair w/out the mixamp.)
   
  Any input is appreciated - Thanks in advance.


----------



## Eric_C

Get MixAmp + KSC75 + Mic.
  Without the MixAmp you're going to have game and chat audio competing for attention--very far from ideal, and I've tried this even with the nice DT880 + mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The KSC75 isn't going to blow anything away, but its solid for the price. If you can only afford the Mixamp, you may as well get the AX720 which is the same price and comes with a decent headset. You can get better headphones later.


----------



## kork

Appreciate the quick responses guys. I will have to look into the AX720s and the KSC75 options.
   
  I am also wondering if there is an alternative to the $140 Astro 5.8 Mixamp. Maybe that way I could get a decent pair of phones (such as the SR850s) that would outmatch my previous options?
   
  Thanks again
   
   
   
  EDIT: Possibly Turtle Beach DSS instead of the 5.8?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DSS is like the Mixamp without voice chat. Only get it if you not gonna use a non-Turtle Beach headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just had a What moment.

I was just randomly listening to music when "Olive - Miracle" played. The very beginning of the song LITERALLY made me think my sound bar (obviously in front of my TV) was on. I was wearing my DT990/600. This is the first time EVER while wearing headphones that I have heard such a forward depth in the soundstage, that it fooled me into thinking the sound was coming from 10 feet in front of me. No joke, it wasn't like "OMG, these headphones sound so coolz, yo", but literally "OMG, why the hell did my E9 stop working through the headphone out and change to the RCA out? (going to my soundbar)

 That is insane. :eek:

Please continue with your regularly scheduled programming. 

And for the lulz:



C WHUT I DID THAR? Actually not as bad as I thought it'd be. Still sounds like itself, just at a lower volume, loud enough to consider moderate, and the lack of juice softens the treble, so it's easy to sleep to.


----------



## googleli

My Smyth Realiser arrived at my office but I can't test it yet because I am on vacation. Will try it with my SR009 and LCD3 after Christmas. I suspect it will be quite close to the ultimate headphone gaming experience one can have.


----------



## Apollo33

. The HD598s just dropped to $173 on Amazon with one pair left (and also a free upgrade to 1-day shipping for Christmas!), so I tried to speed-research and see if I could pull the trigger, but I wasn't fast enough. I thought I've read that they're bass-light and not too great with metal / electronic / rap, so that worried me. I love the look of the Q701 and there are a lot of pluses to them, but I've also read a number of people that say they don't like them at all. I think I just need somewhere to audition high-end 'phones, but I don't know if there's anywhere near here. It's too hard making decisions!
   
  (Can I "Good story bro" myself? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## Naingolann

Q701 are really nice and I wish I had gotten those instead of the Senn555.
  Though, I say go with the DT990 or the 880. Those seem to be good all-rounder and do especially good with games too.
   
  I'm no expert by any means and It's thanks to this topic that I became interested in headphone gaming, so you might want to wait and see what other people think.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And for the lulz:
> 
> C WHUT I DID THAR? Actually not as bad as I thought it'd be. Still sounds like itself, just at a lower volume, loud enough to consider moderate, and the lack of juice softens the treble, so it's easy to sleep to.


 


  Blasphemy!!!  How dare you use use those without an amp!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Blasphemy!!!  How dare you use use those without an amp!!




Hahaha, cuz Im gangsta like dat, SON!


----------



## chicolom

I reported you to moderators for "improper driving of headphones"   ^


----------



## obazavil

chicolom said:


> I reported you to moderators for "improper driving of headphones" ^




MLE should be banned for listening to dt990/600 without an amp. he doesn't sound like is apologizing for the awful offense he just did

hahha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bah, you guys don't know the magic and charm of underdriven cans. 

It has a distinct sound that no amp can provide.


----------



## sari0n

Quick question about Dolby sound processing...
  I tried a Astro mixamp and I'm really liking the sound with optical input from the xbox.  However, it doesn't seem to do so well when hooked up to the stereo output from my laptop. I was wondering if this was because of the crappy built in soundcard and because my laptop wasn't actually outputting 5.1 or 7.1 but just 2.0
  Would the Dolby processing from a USB DAC like the Asus Xonar U1 give me better results than stereo input into the Mixamp?  I've been playing with one of the older Mixamps that doesn't support USB input.  I don't know if the newer Mixamps actually act as an external soundcard or if the sound is still from the internal card?


----------



## calpis

Dolby Headphone should ONLY be used with 5.1 or 7.1 Dolby Digital audio. But if you can only output in Dolby Pro Logic IIz (gamecube/wii) then it can process that too. Using it to process 2-channel (2.0) will ruin the sound since that's not what the technology was made for. Just turn off the DH on the mixamp when  you're feeding it a stereo source (2.0).
   
  If you plan on using a Asus U1 or U3 then those already have DH built in and you won't need to use the mixamp at all. If you have a soundcard that has Dolby Digital Live then that can be used together with the mixamp. Newer mixamps, 2010 model and newer, can act as a usb sound card and use DH the way it was meant to be used. Just don't play stereo music through them with DH on.


----------



## staxxx

My net cafe has banned open backed headphones, a trend which I started. Players used them at loud levels which is making audible noise to the administrators. I bought a Ksc75 and it still leaks, and I bought an RX700 which leaks very little and has good positional imaging. The problem is that I look like a SUPER DORK wearing these, even more so than the AD900. I'm considering the CAL but it's cable is short, I know this can be fixed with an extension, but I'd only consider it if the soundstage and imaging is >= the RX700.

I need a headphone with minimal leakage to use for gaming within a reasonable price.  Long cord preferred and no Y cable.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sari0n said:


> Quick question about Dolby sound processing...
> I tried a Astro mixamp and I'm really liking the sound with optical input from the xbox.  However, it doesn't seem to do so well when hooked up to the stereo output from my laptop. I was wondering if this was because of the crappy built in soundcard and because my laptop wasn't actually outputting 5.1 or 7.1 but just 2.0
> Would the Dolby processing from a USB DAC like the Asus Xonar U1 give me better results than stereo input into the Mixamp?  I've been playing with one of the older Mixamps that doesn't support USB input.  I don't know if the newer Mixamps actually act as an external soundcard or if the sound is still from the internal card?


 

 I'm pretty sure even the mixamps with usb connectivity still need an optical/coax 5.1 signal.  You can't just plug them in with a USB cable and expect surround sound.  I think the usb cable is primarily for chat functions.  The mixamps always need a optical cable sending Dolby Digital 5.1 to work, even with PC.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Newer mixamps, 2010 model and newer, can act as a usb sound card and use DH the way it was meant to be used.


 

 I'd like some clarification on this. How many non-wireless Mixamp variants are floating around out there?
   
  I know of at least two: the older "A40 Mixamp" version, and the newer "Mixamp Pro" version which should have improved USB functionality, from what I've read. Aside from the text at the bottom, the volume and game/chat mixing knobs also look slightly different.


----------



## Evarin

Got my AH-D7000's today. These things sounds wonderful, but isolate noise in/out about as well as the PC 360's! Completely useless to me due to that reason alone. I am going to return them and see if I have better luck with a set of T5P's once I catch a set at a decent price.
   
  Just a heads up to anyone considering the D2000's - D7000's for gaming while near other people.


----------



## staxxx

evarin said:


> Got my AH-D7000's today. These things sounds wonderful, but isolate noise in/out about as well as the PC 360's! Completely useless to me due to that reason alone. I am going to return them and see if I have better luck with a set of T5P's once I catch a set at a decent price.
> 
> Just a heads up to anyone considering the D2000's - D7000's for gaming while near other people.




They leak a little, but I don't like the idea of using such a high end can for gaming, when a RX700 has just as good imaging and soundstage. I'm not taking about technical capabilities but the D7000 for dedicated gaming makes no sense


----------



## Evarin

Definitely wouldn't recommend spending that much for gaming headphones by themselves, no. Though the D2000's aren't all that expensive, especially if you get a good deal on them. I bought them for use with gaming AS WELL AS my primary listening headphones, but I need a pair that can isolate well for when I am at work, school, etc.
   
  For gaming headphones that isolate, how about the DT770's? Those are closed headphones. I wouldn't mind trying the gaming headset based off of the design, the MMX 300, but they are also pricey, and I am happy with the PC 360's for home use.


----------



## staxxx

I've read good reviews, the only problem is that it has elevated bass.


----------



## Evarin

Hmm. How about the D2000's then? They might leak more than one would like for a "closed" headphone, but they still are very much closed. You should be able to get away with it and still get awesome sound.
   
  Also, have you considered modding a pair of headphones like the PC 360? Most people go from closed to open, but I imagine it wouldn't be insane to try to go from open to closed.


----------



## staxxx

I think if you're not satisfied with the D7000 in terms of isolation / leakage, the D2000 may not be for you. They might leak the same as the 7000's. The DT770 Pro may be what you want though, are you very competitive?


----------



## Evarin

Me? No. I was attempting to come up with a suggestion for you. I am looking for the best headphones I can get my hands on for under 1k. They must be closed, and don't take a 700 dollar amp/dac to drive. I'm guessing that will likely be the T5P's.  I mean to game with my set, but nothing competitive. For any games I *DO* need a headset for, I have my trusty PC 360's here to get the job done.
   
   
  Edit: Here's another thought for your situation. How about a good set of IEM headphones? You won't be bothering other people, the will isolate sound well both in and out, etc.


----------



## staxxx

hahahaha, oh sorry, I didn't realize you were trying to help me. I could never get the full size soundstage from an IEM. The DT770's are out due to bass bloat. 
Maybe I could wait for a price drop on an A700x or something.


----------



## RapidPulse

Anyone try the Beyer T70/T70P for FPS gaming?
  They are closed...but based on what I have read about them, they might make some nice gaming cans.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'd like some clarification on this. How many non-wireless Mixamp variants are floating around out there?
> 
> I know of at least two: the older "A40 Mixamp" version, and the newer "Mixamp Pro" version which should have improved USB functionality, from what I've read. Aside from the text at the bottom, the volume and game/chat mixing knobs also look slightly different.


 


  Only 2 as far as I know. I think it's pre-2010, and 2010 editions. I heard the 2010 edition is easier to hook up to a PS3 for chat.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Only 2 as far as I know. I think it's pre-2010, and 2010 editions. I heard the 2010 edition is easier to hook up to a PS3 for chat.


 

 This may be because of what I've heard about the Mixamp Pro using USB for input in addition to output, effectively presenting itself as a USB headset, whereas the older A40 Mixamp revision only uses analog for mic input.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For a closed headphone that is considered very neutral:

Fischer FA-003 or Brainwavz HM5

They are the same headphone just rebranded (uncomfirmed, but those whohave heard both say they look and sound identical).

They supposedly have a huge soundstage for closed headphones, and both around $150.

I want a pair myself.


----------



## staxxx

Those look very nice, I'll check them out.


----------



## Evarin

MLE, have any experience with the Edition 8's? They look to be the best possible closed headphones I can buy in the 1k range. Supposedly easy to drive as well. Very good isolation too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe Obazavil owns them and swears by them for gaming.

Unfortunately, for a lowly security guard like me, it's too rich for my blood.

If I had the money, my endgame would be:

Schiit Biifrost DAC
Schiit Lyr Amp
HE500 (for non bassy needs, like TV shows)
HE4 to replace the DT990
ES10 (portable), KSC35 (because I need clip on)
PC360 (mic'd headset)


Whatever high end closed headphone has velour pads.

Dammit. I think I'm gonna do what I should've done earlier... I'm gonna return the DT990/600 and going to get the HE4 again. Just...those were the cans for me for all applications. I need the Lyr though, ASAP.

Once the Lyr makes it back on Amazon, I will be ordering it. Hopefully soon, so I can test it out with the 990s within my return window (Jan 31). Depending on whether I like the combo or not, I may/may not return the 990s and order the HE4.

I realize now I should have just got the HE4 and stuck with it until the Lyr became available.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I thought you were centered on the Beyerdynamic Tesla T1, but it's nowhere in that list...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lost interest, since I realize I don't wanna sacrifice that much bass for balance. The HE4 is very close to the signature of the DT990s, with just a slight loss of bass (still close), more mids, and slight loss of treble (still sparkly,but not as ridiculous as the DT990 treble). Pretty much, a perfected DT990. Still fun, still V-shaped, but superior in every way. It just needs a ton of power though. The E9 struggled quite a bit with the HE4. I enjoyed it anyway, but having the Lyr in hand, really proved how much the HE4 needs some serious power.


----------



## Evarin

Ultrasone *HFI-780* - Pure Animation *The exclusive design of the closed-back HFI-780 is accentuated by the polar-silver colour. The HFI-780 contains all Ultrasone technologies such as S-Logic™ Plus, ULE and safer hearing.*

 The HFI-780 is developed from the studio sector and is distinguished by a frequency response specifically tuned for DVD and gaming. Sophisticated home cineasts and music enthusiasts are overwhelmed by the impressing sound that appears as though you are listening to speakers meters away. Gamers are impressed by the exact sound reproduction, making the gaming world come alive. The low frequency ranges are being risen in order to reach the highest possible synergies with DSP-Systems like DOLBY HEADPHONE™ and Yamaha SILENT CINEMA™.

   
  From their website. They sound quite interesting.
   
  Edit: Looks like they've been mentioned a NUMBER of times. Pity you never got your hands on a pair, MLE. They sound like they were made for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. Ultrasones sound ideal for me, but I never thought about them other than the Pro 900.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of Ultrasone, I considered the Pro 900 at one point, but then people here mentioned some drawbacks.
   
  -Ultrasones are notorious for skull-clamping pressure. Needless to say, that detracts from comfort.
   
  -The Pro 900 specifically is notorious for a recessed midrange. If I've found out anything in my headphone experiences, it's that I don't want the vocals taking a back seat in the music. I don't know if this is just the Ultrasone house sound or what.
   
  Confirm/deny?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually prefer a recessed midrange, since I'm a mild bassand treblehead, just as long as they aren't too recessed. I wanted the Pro900 for a long time, but its a midbass heavy can. I prefer sub bass, so the D7000 was better suited for my taste.


----------



## obazavil

I use Edition 8 for music at the office, and for gaming with the mixamp and ps3.

They are very clear, the bass impact is superb without interfering other frequencies, and isolate VERY good in both directions.

Positional cues are also good on those. The S-Logic works wonderful with mixamp when playing BF3 and Dead Space for example.

They are at $995 or so at RMC Audio, or $1,250 at amazon if you want the return-no-fee policy.

Ed8 sound extremely good even straight from iPhone, they are very easy to drive, so mixamp has no problem driving them

There are many cheaper options for closed (CAL has an extension cable included, or check the options given by MLE), but if you want the best closed headphone IMHO (and Skylab and many others) they are worth checking.


----------



## Evarin

Thanks a ton for the information. I will be driving these with the E11. I see you have the E6. Once I get my returns all straightened out I will likely scoop these up if you can really get them for 1k flat new. That is a great price. Do you mind if I PM you with some questions down the line should I run into any?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Thanks a ton for the information. I will be driving these with the E11. I see you have the E6. Once I get my returns all straightened out I will likely scoop these up if you can really get them for 1k flat new. That is a great price. Do you mind if I PM you with some questions down the line should I run into any?


 
   
  Yeah... E6 to drive Ed8 sounds crazy, but I really ran out of cash. I really love how Ed8 sounds with music and games.
  
  Feel free to ask me anything as much as you want


----------



## shipsupt

Just wanted to throw out a thank you to MLE for this thread and the PC 360 recommendation.  I needed to get some gaming headphones for my girlfriend's son and this thread was a real help in the process.   He's had them for a while now and really seems to like them for gaming.  He says that he's able to pick up directional cues like never before.
   
  I finally got my hands on them to do some music listening and I was pretty impressed.  A little thin for my own taste, but I liked the sound stage.  If I needed an all-rounder that included doing game duty but didn't want to give up good music SQ I wouldn't hesitate to grab these cans.  I happened to be testing out the ZO2 and the combination turned out to be a lot of fun.


----------



## toyopl

Just unpacked Denon D2000 and Fiio e7/e9 combo for christmas and first run at BF3 and the sound is to die for.
  The bass is so rich that I feel like I'm in the movies waching a war flick


----------



## Bowels

Hey guys,
   
  So, I've been researching over the past couple of weeks trying to decide on a new set of cans, but am having a hard time figuring out which I even want to try out. Basically, they will be used 50% of the time for competitive FPS gaming, 30% single player/movies, and 20% music (mostly hip-hop/rap/dubstep).
   
  I've had AD-700's for ~6 months now, and while they are definitely nice on the competitive side of things, they obviously leave a lot to be desired when it comes to SP, movies, and my preferred music. I don't need or want overwhelming bass, just enough so it's "fun" when I'm not playing competitively, and isn't too much when I am.
   
  As of right now, I've broken it down to the HD-598, AKG Q/K7xx, Beyer DT990 (600/250/pro), Beyer DT 880 (600, 250, pro), and the Brainwavz HM5's<<< closed, but I've read they have a pretty decent soundstage>>> but I'm open to suggestions.
   
  I understand the AKG's and Beyer's are probably going to need more power than what the Mixamp brings, so would it be worth it to get those without an extra amp or even with a cheaper desktop one like the E9, over say the HD598's/HM5's? Or should I get something like the E9 even with the Senn's/Brainwavz, too (especially for listening to music)?
   
  Willing to go up to $300~ or so, but would like to stay as close to 200 bucks as possible. Probably going to decide on two to order and try them out.
   
  Great thread by the way, very informative for those new to this like myself.


----------



## googleli

Just got my Realiser and tried it out with two channels only on my SR009. Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous. I am not even sure whether I need my speakers any more. Tomorrow I will try it with my home theatre system and play some BF3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The more I listen to the DT990/600, the more I remember why I loved them so much the first time I owned them. They're just stellar for me. I'm not gonna get rid of them this time. That means no HE4 to replace them. I'm happy with these as is. I do need a new amp, as my E9 seems to be clipping at times. Still waiting on the Lyr to come back up on Amazon.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bowels said:


> Hey guys,
> So, I've been researching over the past couple of weeks trying to decide on a new set of cans, but am having a hard time figuring out which I even want to try out. Basically, they will be used 50% of the time for competitive FPS gaming, 30% single player/movies, and 20% music (mostly hip-hop/rap/dubstep).
> I've had AD-700's for ~6 months now, and while they are definitely nice on the competitive side of things, they obviously leave a lot to be desired when it comes to SP, movies, and my preferred music. I don't need or want overwhelming bass, just enough so it's "fun" when I'm not playing competitively, and isn't too much when I am.
> As of right now, I've broken it down to the HD-598, AKG Q/K7xx, Beyer DT990 (600/250/pro), Beyer DT 880 (600, 250, pro), and the Brainwavz HM5's<<< closed, but I've read they have a pretty decent soundstage>>> but I'm open to suggestions.
> ...


 

 Sennheiser HD-558 (50-Ohm), like the ATH-AD700s, but with more bass.
  Only $123 at Electronics Expo, need to use the coupon code "BOUNTII".


----------



## Bowels

I looked at (and have heard) the 558's, but I'm not sure it's a big enough jump to buy a pair when I have the 700's . Lowest in the Senn line I probably want to go is the 598.
   
  Any suggestions on a couple I should try from those listed (or others around that price range)?


----------



## Bowels

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The more I listen to the DT990/600, the more I remember why I loved them so much the first time I owned them. They're just stellar for me. I'm not gonna get rid of them this time. That means no HE4 to replace them. I'm happy with these as is. I do need a new amp, as my E9 seems to be clipping at times. Still waiting on the Lyr to come back up on Amazon.


 


  I've read through the entire thread but don't specifically remember you saying anything about how the 990/600's perform with the Mixamp>E9 (apologies if you have), but would it be worth picking those up to use with that combo until I can get something like the Lyr? Or is the bass "too" much for the competitive side of things, and should I just aim for the AKG/Senn's?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bowels said:


> I looked at (and have heard) the 558's, but I'm not sure it's a big enough jump to buy a pair when I have the 700's . Lowest in the Senn line I probably want to go is the 598.
> Any suggestions on a couple I should try from those listed (or others around that price range)?


 

 Finding cans that work well better then the AD700s, with the Mix-Amp and FPS gaming is to me a little difficult.
  Most other headphones are going to come with more bass, which I guess is not desirable for FPS.
  The Audio Technica ATH-AD900 would work well with the mix-amp, improve the sound of movies and music, almost equal in Soundstage to the AD700s.
  Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990 250-Ohm series sound best with good amping, not sure how well the mix-amp would power them.
  Beyerdynamic DT880/990 32-Ohm series would be easy to power, but cost to much over other models.
   
  What gaming machines to you plug the mix-amp into
  PC, MAC, PS3, xBox, etc?


----------



## Bowels

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Finding cans that work well better then the AD700s, with the Mix-Amp and FPS gaming is to me a little difficult.
> Most other headphones are going to come with more bass, which I guess is not desirable for FPS.
> The Audio Technica ATH-AD900 would work well with the mix-amp, improve the sound of movies and music, almost equal in Soundstage to the AD700s.
> Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990 250-Ohm series sound best with good amping, not sure how well the mix-amp would power them.
> ...


 

 Only use the mixamp with the consoles. I don't necessarily need phones that are "better" for FPS gaming, but better overall for all my needs. I actually want a bit more bass to enjoy the music/movies etc, just not so much that I can't get away with using them for FPS.
   
  To be honest, I'd probably already have a pair of D7000 or Ultrasone Pro 2900's (have a buddy that has both) if I was buying some cans for strictly music, but with half of their use being on competitive gaming, it would probably be a bit of a waste.
   
  I'm thinking about ordering the HD598's and the DT990's and trying them out. If the DT990's bass is just too much, then I'll just return/sell it. Not really sure which version of the 990's I should get though. I was leaning towards the pro's because of the price (166) until I saw where Mad Lust said the bass was a bit overwhelming, and the 600 ohm might be too much with the mixamp/E9 alone (249~ at amazon right now though, so they are tempting).
   
  ....but I also really want to try the Q701's, haha.


----------



## chicolom

I'm betting that the Q701s will be darker and flatter than DT990s which will be more V-Shaped.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





> Only use the mixamp with the consoles. I don't necessarily need phones that are "better" for FPS gaming, but better overall for all my needs. I actually want a bit more bass to enjoy the music/movies etc, just not so much that I can't get away with using them for FPS.
> To be honest, I'd probably already have a pair of D7000 or Ultrasone Pro 2900's (have a buddy that has both) if I was buying some cans for strictly music, but with half of their use being on competitive gaming, it would probably be a bit of a waste.
> 
> I'm thinking about ordering the HD598's and the DT990's and trying them out. If the DT990's bass is just too much, then I'll just return/sell it. Not really sure which version of the 990's I should get though. I was leaning towards the pro's because of the price (166) until I saw where Mad Lust said the bass was a bit overwhelming, and the 600 ohm might be too much with the mixamp/E9 alone (249~ at amazon right now though, so they are tempting).
> ...


 
   
   
  Lol dude, it's funny because I was in the exact same situation...unsure which one to get: Q701 or Beyer 990/600. In the end I went with the second option and I'm waiting for the FiiO E9 to arrive as well, but for now I'm listening to my new Beyer with an E7 and I might be biased, but they sound absolutely fantastic.
   
  My first ever headphone was a SennHD555 and I have to say the Beyer totally destroys 'em in every way. There's just no contest. I'm no expert, but the sound of the 555 was just too muddy, while the Beyer sound more "vivid", more "alive". I'll let you know better once I get to properly drive 'em with the E9.
   
  I'm probably going to get the Q701 someday to replace the 555 though. I really like those too and I've been told good things about 'em.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bowels said:


> I've read through the entire thread but don't specifically remember you saying anything about how the 990/600's perform with the Mixamp>E9 (apologies if you have), but would it be worth picking those up to use with that combo until I can get something like the Lyr? Or is the bass "too" much for the competitive side of things, and should I just aim for the AKG/Senn's?




The good thing about the DT990/600 is that while the bass can be powerful, it has a quick decay, and so it doesn't bleed into the midrange like typical cans. I loved the DT990/600 enough last time to say I didn't need a competitive can any more. 

As fun as they are, they are also quite revealing.

My situation is that while the E9 drives them to ear exploding levels, my E9 distorts during very heavy and intense sequences. I'm not sure if its because it can't handle the 600ohm, or if its something else. My E9 has been having issues anyways, so I will say its just faulty, and not because it can't power the 990s properly. I was planning on just getting another E9, but in the end, I just want a Lyr again.

edit: been using them for hours today, and I haven't had a single distortion. The E9 is behaving itself today. So weird. I guess I would be happy just replacing this somewhat finicky E9 with another... I am loving how the DT990/600 is sounding off it.


----------



## chicolom

Looks like Astro now sells their A40 case separately:
  http://www.astrogaming.com/a40-headset-case?utm_source=Astro+Gaming+Newsletter&utm_campaign=fddda521f5-Post_Holiday&utm_medium=email
   
  I use one as a hardshell case for my PC360s, they seem to fit pretty well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The first time I used it, the zipper flew off. XD

Literally, the whole thing... made the case useless.


----------



## Rebel975

I've ordered a pair of Dayton RS621's and an Emotiva a-100. My new current setup for gaming/movies/etc.:
   
   
   

   
  All I really need at this point is a DAC (Bifrost maybe?) to stick between my computer and the audio switcher.


----------



## cashmoney

Great post! Looks like you guys have been in the game a long time, and really know your stuff. I've read your post about three times (I'm really analytical). Anyways, I'm in the market for a new gaming headset and luckily punched the right words in google to find your post. So from what I've collected, the astro mixamp (wired) seems to be the way to go. Easy. Now what I'm having trouble with is deciding between the AD700 and the AKG 701. I don't consider myself a gamer, I only play CoD. So, I'm looking for a kick ass headset to really wreck house. First headset was px21 (first and last). Now I want a headset to actually make dead silence useful and not just as a defense against sound whores. Do you really feel there's a huge difference between the two? I really just want to get the 700s because their price tag, but I don't know if that would be a waste or not. So are they still worth anything, or do the 701s just completely blow them out of the water? I'm looking for that headset that will have me turning on kids no problem. Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cashmoney said:


> Great post! Looks like you guys have been in the game a long time, and really know your stuff. I've read your post about three times (I'm really analytical). Anyways, I'm in the market for a new gaming headset and luckily punched the right words in google to find your post. So from what I've collected, the astro mixamp (wired) seems to be the way to go. Easy. Now what I'm having trouble with is deciding between the AD700 and the AKG 701. I don't consider myself a gamer, I only play CoD. So, I'm looking for a kick ass headset to really wreck house. First headset was px21 (first and last). Now I want a headset to actually make dead silence useful and not just as a defense against sound whores. Do you really feel there's a huge difference between the two? I really just want to get the 700s because their price tag, but I don't know if that would be a waste or not. So are they still worth anything, or do the 701s just completely blow them out of the water? I'm looking for that headset that will have me turning on kids no problem. Thanks!


 

 They don't really sound anything alike IMO.  Besides having large soundstage, they're quite different.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cashmoney said:


> Great post! Looks like you guys have been in the game a long time, and really know your stuff. I've read your post about three times (I'm really analytical). Anyways, I'm in the market for a new gaming headset and luckily punched the right words in google to find your post. So from what I've collected, the astro mixamp (wired) seems to be the way to go. Easy. Now what I'm having trouble with is deciding between the AD700 and the AKG 701. I don't consider myself a gamer, I only play CoD. So, I'm looking for a kick ass headset to really wreck house. First headset was px21 (first and last). Now I want a headset to actually make dead silence useful and not just as a defense against sound whores. Do you really feel there's a huge difference between the two? I really just want to get the 700s because their price tag, but I don't know if that would be a waste or not. So are they still worth anything, or do the 701s just completely blow them out of the water? I'm looking for that headset that will have me turning on kids no problem. Thanks!


 
  The ATH-AD700s are bass light, which is kind of downer for action movies and any music that bass is an important part.
  The AD700s are good for T.V. and movies that are easy listening, were vocals are the most important,
  as they do not blast loudly into your ears, so you can have them on for long periods of time.
  I've never used the AKG 701, but I'm sure the over all sound is fuller then the ATH-AD700.
  I would push for the Sennheiser HD-558s, like the ATH-AD700s, but with more bass.


----------



## Naingolann

Just my two cents.
   
  Considering he only plays COD or FPS in general, then the AD700 would be the best for him. If he uses his new headphone for listening to music and movies as well, then I'd suggest the 701 instead...and finally if he has to go the Sennheiser way, then by all means he should get the 598. I have the 555 and they really make the difference in online gaming...excellent positioning and very light bass.


----------



## DeadlyAssmite

Hey guys i'm looking for some info on the Recon3d usb thing. I just ordered a pair of dt990/600's and a fiio e9 to replace my m50s' because of their lack of sound stage in games. I'll be sellling my m50's and i'm looking at the Recon3d because i need some type of surround sound encoding for games, but i also use my laptop a lot for music/movies and am lacking a USB DAC, which i wont be able to afford if i get an astro mixamp. Recon3d seems like the perfect solution, but i'm concerned about how the chat will sound through it. Most importantly, does it do a decent job mixing the chat even if the person on the other end has a cheap $5 mic? and what about my mic, will my teammates be able to hear me? Do you think its worth buying it for its USB DAC capabilities over the mixamp? And lastly does it have more cables to connect than the mixamp(wired)? Just looking for some 2nd opinions mostly, i'm leaning towards recon3d, but i don't wan't to end up not being able to hear my team and having no way to adjust the chat sound.


----------



## Eric_C

@DeadlyAssmite: I just read up on the Recon3D (never heard of it before). Seems like it retails at US$130--which is the same price as a MixAmp. Any reason why you want to go for the new kid on the block instead of an established device?


----------



## DeadlyAssmite

Only reason really is because i could plug the usb port into my laptop to use it as a DAC when im not gaming on the xbox. There's no way to get sound through astros usb port right? From what i've read the sound quality seems to be at least on par if not better because of thx than the astros, but i cannot find much info on how well it mixes voices. Some reviews said they prefered the voice mixing system recon uses while others said they couldn't hear cheap mics through it(maybe they didn't adjust the settings on pc and save the profile?). Anyone who's tried both able to give a comparison?


----------



## DeadlyAssmite

Well never mind guys, i found the recon3d on sale right now on Tigerdirect for $99 and free shipping so i jumped on it! I'll try to post back in a few days and give my thoughts on it for anyone who's interested or who lands here from google like i did.


----------



## Naingolann

That'd be pretty interesting. Let us know how it'll work for you mate.
   
  By the way, the new Ear Force DSS is out...seems like they just added a "Surround Angle" button with 6 different presets and an Equalizer button as well ("select between flat, bass boost, aggressive bass boost, treble boost, aggressive treble, boost, bass & treble boost, midrange boost and aggressive midrange boost.").
   
  It's also 10$ less than the original. Neat!


----------



## lezboyd

Wow...that is a lot of info here! Too much for me to understand, being a noob @ audiophilia. However, this site and its forums was recommended as the best place to get advice for any and all of your audio needs, so please help a fellow out!
   
  I require a set of headphones, mostly for music (my choices range from Sting & The Police, to Chemical Brothers & Infected Mushroom, to Metallica) and movies & TV series, with occasional chat (I have a separate mic for that). I am not a gamer. I am going to use them for about 6-8 hours daily, maybe more. My current headphones are the Jabra Halo which I found satisfactory for all my needs, but after 18 months of solid use, they won't charge anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (I blame the headband design for that). I am not necessarily looking for Bluetooth headsets, though, and my budget is around a 100$.
   
  Please recommend 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  P.S.: I almost went for the Audio Technica AD700 until I read the reviews here and found that they are bass anemic. So, back to the square-one for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Off topic, but my brother just got his pair of white box (new version) M50s today. Going off memory, The bass isn't as strong as my older blue box M50s, but I'm talking about a very minor bass reduction. I would be very satisfied with the new M50s as my closed headphone. Sounds very well balanced, still bassy, but not boomy. Not that they do well for DH gaming though, just saying, they're great for music.



naingolann said:


> That'd be pretty interesting. Let us know how it'll work for you mate.
> 
> By the way, the new Ear Force DSS is out...seems like they just added a "Surround Angle" button with 6 different presets and an Equalizer button as well ("select between flat, bass boost, aggressive bass boost, treble boost, aggressive treble, boost, bass & treble boost, midrange boost and aggressive midrange boost.").
> 
> It's also 10$ less than the original. Neat!




I wonder if they also lowered the noise/hiss coming off the DSS. If it became as silent as the wired Mixamp, that would make it worthwhile getting if you were certain not to ever need chat capabilities.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





deadlyassmite said:


> There's no way to get sound through astros usb port right?


 
   
  I've always thought you could plug an Astro into USB or optical for sound.
http://www.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_quickstart_2.pdf
   
  Hope you like the Recon nonetheless, 'specially since it's en route for $30 less already.


----------



## kazooki117

Hi, I had a few questions.
   
  I am planning on buying the beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 and pairing it with an amp for my laptop computer. I was wondering what a good amp would be.
   
  Right now I am looking at the ASTRO mixamp versus the Creative Sound Blaster X-fi USB 1240.
   
  I know that the ASTRO uses dolby, and the Sound Blaster uses CMSS-3D; is there much difference between the two? Are there any other similarly priced amps that would be worth considering? I have no other DAC, amp, or surround sound enabler, and this would be my only one.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





lezboyd said:


> Wow...that is a lot of info here! Too much for me to understand, being a noob @ audiophilia. However, this site and its forums was recommended as the best place to get advice for any and all of your audio needs, so please help a fellow out!
> 
> I require a set of headphones, mostly for music (my choices range from Sting & The Police, to Chemical Brothers & Infected Mushroom, to Metallica) and movies & TV series, with occasional chat (I have a separate mic for that). *I am not a gamer*. I am going to use them for about 6-8 hours daily, maybe more. My current headphones are the Jabra Halo which I found satisfactory for all my needs, but after 18 months of solid use, they won't charge anymore
> 
> ...


 

 You may have better luck asking in any of the numerous *non-gaming* threads instead.


----------



## obazavil

I think you should check the headphones on the first page of this thread and see how they perform for music.
   
  I owned K702 and DT990 and they work well for music, but need an amp. DT990 are great for techno and many genres, K702 ppl say they lack bass but is fixed with tubes.
  Sennheiser 598 I think are good for music.
  Denon sounds good. D7000 are good but expensive.
   
  hmm...
   
  I just saw you budget is $100. CAL are good at that price range
  Fischer Audio FA-003 is at $150. I heard good things about them, dunno the details.
   

  
  Quote: 





lezboyd said:


> Wow...that is a lot of info here! Too much for me to understand, being a noob @ audiophilia. However, this site and its forums was recommended as the best place to get advice for any and all of your audio needs, so please help a fellow out!
> 
> I require a set of headphones, mostly for music (my choices range from Sting & The Police, to Chemical Brothers & Infected Mushroom, to Metallica) and movies & TV series, with occasional chat (I have a separate mic for that). I am not a gamer. I am going to use them for about 6-8 hours daily, maybe more. My current headphones are the Jabra Halo which I found satisfactory for all my needs, but after 18 months of solid use, they won't charge anymore
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> By the way, the new Ear Force DSS is out...seems like they just added a "Surround Angle" button with 6 different presets and an Equalizer button as well ("select between flat, bass boost, aggressive bass boost, treble boost, aggressive treble, boost, bass & treble boost, midrange boost and aggressive midrange boost.").
> 
> It's also 10$ less than the original. Neat!


 


  Hmm..
  http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-processors/ear-force-dss2.aspx
   
  Amp section is probalby the same.  "Adjustable Surround Sound Angles" = HRTFs?
   
  There's nothing like "aggressive" EQ-ing to improve your headphone's sound!


----------



## paulkemp

The eq is nice enough. Still a cheap alternative if you dont need a mic.


----------



## cashmoney

Thanks for the feedback guys. I forgot to mention that I plan to use them solely for CoD. I think I'll go with the 700's instead of the 701's. I know that he had a double revelation when he put on the 701's, but there can't be too much difference, right? I'm surprised more people don't do the 700 and astro mixamp combo. I know all the YT "famous" people use the A40's, but I believe that's just due to pure simplicity. What do you guys think? Do the A40s hold a candle to any of headphones on Shin's list, especially the 700's?


----------



## Phos

I've heard they aren't very good.


----------



## Rebel975

All I remember about the A40's was that they had absolutely no bass. "Bass light" isn't even appropriate for them. I'm talking zero bass. This is good for positioning I suppose, but really bad for immersion. IMO, there has to be balance.
   
   
  Oh, and it wasn't comfortable either.
   
  Their headset is mediocre, but their Mixamp is so vital for me. It's crazy how much I depend on the mixamp. Without that little box I wouldn't have gotten into headphones (or audio in general) in the first place.


----------



## matryx

What do yous think of this Sherwood receiver for $110 to use as a mixamp/decoder?

http://www.walmart.ca/canada-estore/catalog/productdetailpagecontainer.jsp?skuId=168266


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





kazooki117 said:


> Hi, I had a few questions.
> I am planning on buying the beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 and pairing it with an amp for my laptop computer. I was wondering what a good amp would be.
> Right now I am looking at the ASTRO mixamp versus the Creative Sound Blaster X-fi USB 1240.
> I know that the ASTRO uses dolby, and the Sound Blaster uses CMSS-3D; is there much difference between the two? Are there any other similarly priced amps that would be worth considering? I have no other DAC, amp, or surround sound enabler, and this would be my only one.


 

 Personally I would go for the Astro Mix-Amp, as Dolby Digital (Dolby Headphone) is great for movies.


----------



## Evarin

I ordered the Fischer Audio FA-003. It will take a LONG time to get here, but once it does I will post impressions if anyone is interested.
   
  Happy New Year, everyone.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





kazooki117 said:


> Hi, I had a few questions.
> 
> I am planning on buying the beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80 and pairing it with an amp for my laptop computer. I was wondering what a good amp would be.
> 
> ...


 

 X-Fi HD USB, right? That doesn't process CMSS-3D Headphone in hardware like the internal sound cards with EMU20k1 and EMU20k2 DSPs do, and it certainly doesn't have Game Mode available.
   
  Thus, I can't be sure that its CMSS-3D Headphone experience will be anything remotely like what I can get out of said internal sound cards, which performs on par with Dolby Headphone in games with software audio engines pre-mixing everything to 7.1 at most and utterly curbstomping DH in games that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL, because then it's providing more of a 3D binaural experience due to having direct access to the in-game sound coordinates instead of simulating a 5.1/7.1 speaker system with no height cues.
   
  To further add to the matter, the X-Fi HD USB would have software-emulated EAX 3.0 and 4.0 according to the OpenAL flags and being compatible with ALchemy, but I'm not sure that the Astro Mixamp would even get that far. It's generally something you only have to worry about for older games, though.
   
  Too bad Creative doesn't see fit to provide these features outside of desktop sound cards...makes laptop gaming quite a bit more problematic in the audio department.
   
  Also, if you don't need S/PDIF input, you could save a lot of money and still get Dolby Headphone by getting a Xonar U3.


----------



## chicolom

FYI,  I have a Labtec LVA-7330 Boom Microphone for sale in my sig for you gamers wanting a mic


----------



## Rebel975

I'm thinking of buying a Schiit Bifrost and setting it up like this:
   
  Xbox (spdif) > spdif to coax converter > Bifrost > Astro Mixamp > Lyr > HE-500
  PC (spdif) > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.
   
   
  I'd only get a simulated 5.1 instead of 7.1, but it might be worth it. If not, I can always just use the Bifrost exclusively with the PC. Thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Bifrost won't keep the Dolby Digital signal, so the Mixamp is going to get a stereo signal, killing off the whole reason to have the Mixamp for simulated surround. You'll just be getting a heavily processed stereo signal expanded to simulated surround, and not Dolby Headphone.

Do yourself a favor and feed the optical directly to the Mixamp. Keep the Bifrost out of the equation. 

BTW, the whole 7.1 thing is false marketing, as you're only getting 5.1 under the best conditions. They market it as 7.1 because Dolby Headphone does a good job making it sound like sounds are coming from all around you.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm thinking of buying a Schiit Bifrost and setting it up like this:
> 
> Xbox (spdif) > spdif to coax converter > Bifrost > Astro Mixamp > Lyr > HE-500
> PC (spdif) > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.
> ...


 

 What is the Bifrost going to do in between your PC and the Mixamp?


----------



## Phos

Getting line out of a Dolby Headphone source is kinda tricky, it seems as though the best option would be a receiver that has that feature.  It's not easy to avoid double amping if you want dolby headphone out of a console using serious headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> What is the Bifrost going to do in between your PC and the Mixamp?




There is no logical reason to add the Bifrost between them, unless he wasn't going to use the Dolby Headphone and needed the voice mixing of the Mixamp.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> What is the Bifrost going to do in between your PC and the Mixamp?


 


   
   
  Huh? The PC has it's own signal path. PC > bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.
   
  I only use the Mixamp for gaming on my Xbox.
   
  I was thinking that I could use the Bifrost as my Xbox's DAC  and still maintain voice chat functionality via the Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That makes much more sense. At first it sounded like you were going to chain the Bifrost and Mixamp. XD


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That makes much more sense. At first it sounded like you were going to chain the Bifrost and Mixamp. XD


 


  Well, originally I was thinking that I could. The Mixamp does have RCA inputs and would supposedly still give me some sort of surround sound feel. Though it sounds like since I'd be feeding it a stereo signal the surround sound wouldn't be all that great. I've never really tried gaming without Dolby Headphone on.
   
  I'm just trying to get the maximum benefit out of my purchase by being able to use it multiple different ways. If I ended up not using the Bifrost with my Xbox I could still use it with my computer, so it wouldn't be the end of the world.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm thinking of buying a Schiit Bifrost and setting it up like this:
> Xbox (spdif) > spdif to coax converter > Bifrost > Astro Mixamp > Lyr > HE-500
> PC (spdif) > Bifrost > Lyr > HE-500.
> I'd only get a simulated 5.1 instead of 7.1, but it might be worth it. If not, I can always just use the Bifrost exclusively with the PC. Thoughts?


 

 I believe the output from the Bifrost is 2.0 channel, so the Mix-amp can no longer do 5.1 surround sound processing with this setup.
  Unless I'm not understanding something in this setup.


----------



## Rebel975

According to the Mixamp's manual it can still upmix to surround sound via the RCA inputs, but it's Dolby Pro Logic 2 instead of Dolby Digital 7.1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you did that:

Dolby Digital downconverted to 2 channel by the Bifrost, upconverted to stereo surround. That's a LOT of processing. Also, Dolby Pro Logic II would possibly only function directly from the original source (I.e. RCA out from the 360). You're most likely not going to get PLII, but just a basic stereo signal upconverted. It wouldn't sound good at all.

Pro Logic II works from a Dolby Digital signal and/or Pro Logic II signal (Wii, PS2, etc), not any basic stereo source. The Dolby Digital signal would be lost once its gone through the Bifrost.


----------



## Rebel975

Dang. Well, I wonder how it would sound if I only used the Mixamp for chat functionality. I haven't ever done any Xbox gaming without Dolby Headphone. Not sure if I'd like it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Dang. Well, I wonder how it would sound if I only used the Mixamp for chat functionality. I haven't ever done any Xbox gaming without Dolby Headphone. Not sure if I'd like it.


 

 Why not just go
  Xbox, optical to Mix-Amp, Mix-amp to Sennheiser HD-558 or HD-598, or Audio Technica ATH-AD900.
  Use the HE-500s for music.


----------



## bowei006

My setup
   
  Computer-->Optical out-->Monoprice fancy toslink cable 6FT-->FiiO E17-->HFI 580/SRH440 
  BF3 on hi-fi audio settings


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

E17 isn't out yet, and it doesn't support DH or any virtual surround. For gaming, I need my Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Why not just go
> Xbox, optical to Mix-Amp, Mix-amp to Sennheiser HD-558 or HD-598, or Audio Technica ATH-AD900.
> Use the HE-500s for music.


 

  
  Because then I'd never use the HE-500.
   
  I just have the upgrade itch is all. If the Mixamp is the only DAC that will suit my Xbox gaming needs (chat+Dolby Headphone) then so be it. I'll just buy a Bifrost to improve my PC gaming experience. BTW- I play single player games on the PC, and multiplayer games on the Xbox.
   
  Actually- I need a Smyth Realiser. Does anyone have several thousand dollars that they don't want?


----------



## NamelessPFG

You have a Xonar Essence ST already, and want to throw a Bifrost into the mix? That's a bit of a surprise.
   
  Unfortunately, there's a quirk I've heard about with Xonar cards; they allegedly won't let you output a stereo PCM signal through S/PDIF that's been pre-processed with Dolby Headphone. I don't know if this extends to other C-Media-based cards like the HT Omega lineup and the Auzentech X-Meridian, since they use somewhat different driver packages. Note that I cannot confirm or deny this myself without one of those cards.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> You have a Xonar Essence ST already, and want to throw a Bifrost into the mix? That's a bit of a surprise.
> 
> Unfortunately, there's a quirk I've heard about with Xonar cards; they allegedly won't let you output a stereo PCM signal through S/PDIF that's been pre-processed with Dolby Headphone. I don't know if this extends to other C-Media-based cards like the HT Omega lineup and the Auzentech X-Meridian, since they use somewhat different driver packages. Note that I cannot confirm or deny this myself without one of those cards.


 


  
   
  Now that I'm looking I see that it can do Pro Logic 2 and a "7.1 speaker shifter" via spdif, but that would get reduced back to 2.0 in the Bifrost anyway. Stereo is fine for my single player gaming. I've been playing in stereo on the PC ever since I got the Lyr.
   
  Why is it a surprise that I would want a separate DAC? I figured the Bifrost would sound better than a Xonar ST, but then again I've never had anything like it before.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> You have a Xonar Essence ST already, and want to throw a Bifrost into the mix? That's a bit of a surprise.
> Unfortunately, there's a quirk I've heard about with Xonar cards; they allegedly won't let you output a stereo PCM signal through S/PDIF that's been pre-processed with Dolby Headphone. I don't know if this extends to other C-Media-based cards like the HT Omega lineup and the Auzentech X-Meridian, since they use somewhat different driver packages. Note that I cannot confirm or deny this myself without one of those cards.


 

 I would assume (guess) that Asus felt that most buyers of the Xonar Essence STX & ST would use the built in headphone output for their headphones.
  Anyone using the optical output would run the cable to something like a receiver or a external headphone amplifier for music (2.0 channel).


----------



## obazavil

Just skip the Bifrost, and add an extra amp after mixamp before HE-500.
   
  Bifrost is useless on gaming with dolby headphone


----------



## Rebel975

I already have a Lyr. I thought a Bifrost would round out my rig. (My PC rig at least). 

Alternatively, I could sell the Xonar ST, buy a Titanium HD, and use CMSS via the RCA outputs. Hmm...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The reason I'd get the Bifrost is for everything non-gaming related. It will eventually be the External DAC I'm going to get, though I want the USB input in case I ever get a computer without an optical out (my desktop does have one). The Lyr should arrive soon...again, lol.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The reason I'd get the Bifrost is for everything non-gaming related. It will eventually be the External DAC I'm going to get, though I want the USB input in case I ever get a computer without an optical out (my desktop does have one). The Lyr should arrive soon...again, lol.


 


  MixAmp is perfectly fine for gaming. As MLE said, Bifrost is perfect for any non-gaming issues.


----------



## Rebel975

I'm buying a Titanium HD off of a guy from another forum. I haven't ever used CMSS, but I'm sure I'll like it. Playing in plain old stereo is usually fine, but I've been really missing surround sound in my single player PC gaming. Skyrim in plain stereo is painful.
   
  So I'll go: PC (cmss) > Lyr > HE-500 for single player gaming.


----------



## cashmoney

Ok so if I'm gonna order the 5.8 mixamp, what extra cables do I need to order along with it for the ps3? I know I need the chat cable and rechargable battery, but what else? I'm going to be ordering the AD700. Also, what would be a good mic (not zalman)?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cashmoney said:


> Ok so if I'm gonna order the 5.8 mixamp, what extra cables do I need to order along with it for the ps3? I know I need the chat cable and rechargable battery, but what else? I'm going to be ordering the AD700. Also, what would be a good mic (not zalman)?


 

 I think just the USB chat cable is all you need....
   
  You could look at the antlion modmic.  Or the dealextreme clip-on.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Why is it a surprise that I would want a separate DAC? I figured the Bifrost would sound better than a Xonar ST, but then again I've never had anything like it before.






 Not a dramatic surprise, but I figured that with a separate DAC, you can sell off the Essence ST and "downgrade" to a cheaper card that still has the needed DSP features, since the sound card's analog circuitry is no longer a factor.

   
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I'm buying a Titanium HD off of a guy from another forum. I haven't ever used CMSS, but I'm sure I'll like it. Playing in plain old stereo is usually fine, but I've been really missing surround sound in my single player PC gaming. Skyrim in plain stereo is painful.
> 
> So I'll go: PC (cmss) > Lyr > HE-500 for single player gaming.


 

 That will work. Just so you know, I can personally confirm that CMSS-3D Headphone and in-game EAX effects are output through S/PDIF on X-Fi cards. Just make sure that the "Speakers" option is still the primary audio device, go into the audio control panel, click the Digital I/O tab, and make sure "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" is selected.
   
  Though in this case, you're not adding the Bifrost to the chain. If you were, then given my point above, you could go with one of the cheaper X-Fi cards, so long as it still retains the EMU20k1 or EMU20k2 DSP (unlike the fake XtremeAudio cards). That said, the Titanium HD seems plenty capable to my ears, albeit ears that have never heard what an audiophile DAC can do.


----------



## FarKim

Hi,

 First time poster, long time reader. 
 I have done a lot of reading recently which is now only serving to confuse me (information overload).
 Because of this, I thought it would just be easier to ask for advice.

*My Situation:*
 I play (only) Battlefield - BC2 and BF3.
 Until recently I played on XBOX and used PX5's.
 Although the PX5's do work on PC, they are primarily designed for console's and I've had issues getting the mic working properly.
 I believed that the PX5's offered good sound (although a little light on bass) but you'll probably all tell me otherwise.
 I have recently built my first gaming PC which at present only has on board sound via the ASUS P8Z68-V LX (Realtek ALC887 8-Channel Audio).

*What I want:*
 After selling my PX5's I will need to buy headphones (or headset) and a mic.
 I do play to win but I still want the immersion so need a balanced headset.
 The explosions in Battlefield games are intense, I don't want to miss out on that because they are 100% competitive headphones.
 I will be on a budget of about $200 ish (I'm not very good with a budget).
 I would like to avoid having to buy a sound card (I will do if necessary).
 If I need to buy a sound card I'm hoping I don't need an external amp.
   

 What are your thoughts on the most balanced headphones (on a budget)?
 Do I need a sound card?
 Do I also need an amp?
 
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Bowels

Quote: 





bowels said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So, I've been researching over the past couple of weeks trying to decide on a new set of cans, but am having a hard time figuring out which I even want to try out. Basically, they will be used 50% of the time for competitive FPS gaming, 30% single player/movies, and 20% music (mostly hip-hop/rap/dubstep).
> 
> ...


 
  ^^^
   
  Alright, so I ended up getting the HD-598's. Very pleased with the actual phones, but I'm having problems with a brand new Mixamp Pro and thought I could maybe get some insight ITT about this. Basically, it works fine when I'm playing MW3/BF3 and have the game/voice knob around 50-60%, but when I turn it all the way to game for SP's/movies and have it at a decent volume, I get a bit of rattling/distortion with any amount of bass, and it seems to usually come from one side or the other, not both. Example of this is on the Skyrim start screen during parts of the music.
   
  It's not the cans as they sound fine through my ipod/comp+E7 with heavy bass music (well, they don't distort, haha), so I'm wondering if this is something common with the mixamp set all the way to game or if there is anything I can try. I suppose I could just keep the mixknob around 50%, but for the price of this thing, I don't want to have to use a workaround.
   
  I did some digging and saw that some people had a similar problem to this back in '09-10, but it was supposedly "fixed" awhile back, certainly on the new '11 mixamp models.
   
  FWIW I had the DSS+mixer setup for awhile, but broke the mixer and just decided to sell the DSS and get the all-in-one solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp distorts under heavy stress on bass at times. The HD598 has spikes in impedance, spikes that the Mixamp may not be able to handle at times.

If it occurs frequently, perhaps the Mixamp is faulty.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Though in this case, you're not adding the Bifrost to the chain. If you were, then given my point above, you could go with one of the cheaper X-Fi cards, so long as it still retains the EMU20k1 or EMU20k2 DSP (unlike the fake XtremeAudio cards). That said, the Titanium HD seems plenty capable to my ears, albeit ears that have never heard what an audiophile DAC can do.


 

  
  So I could theoretically hook up a separate DAC to the optical output on the Titanium HD (or other X-Fi card) and still get simulated surround sound? If so, this is the road I've needed to go down since I started getting into audio.
   
  If I had known about, or understood the implications of the Xonar ST not being able to output dolby headphone via the RCA/optical jacks I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Unfortunately, back then I didn't realize how nice it is to have that simulated surround sound.
   
   
  BTW- I can confirm that the Mixamp distorts under heavy bass. Back when I had my Ultrasone PRO 2900's I just thought that the headphones couldn't handle it, but it happens with my HE-500's as well.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





farkim said:


> *My Situation:*
> I play (only) Battlefield - BC2 and BF3.
> Until recently I played on XBOX and used PX5's.
> Although the PX5's do work on PC, they are primarily designed for console's and I've had issues getting the mic working properly.
> ...


 

 1. I don't feel qualified to answer this, but the Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B seems to be the popular budget choice (around $40-50) for a balanced frequency response headphone, especially compared to something like the AD700. However, it's not something I've personally auditioned and cannot really vouch for.
   
  2. If you have a PCI slot free and only play Bad Company 2 and BF3 out of the whole Battlefield series, a Xonar DG should do the job and only cost $30. However, if you have any intention of rolling back to Battlefield 1942/Vietnam/BF2/2142, an X-Fi Titanium will fit better with their use of hardware-accelerated audio (the newer games only use software audio engines that actually have worse positioning if you ask me), but will cost $60.
   
  You won't be getting CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone with the Realtek codec alone, so a sound card is a must unless you just want to be playing in stereo, from an analog output that's probably ridden with hissing and buzzing every time you move the mouse or have any disk activity.
   
  3. If your headphones are sensitive enough, they won't require a dedicated headphone amp. With your budget, that's practically a given, since that would barely be enough for something like a K701/K702/Q701, let alone the amp required to drive it properly.
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> So I could theoretically hook up a separate DAC to the optical output on the Titanium HD (or other X-Fi card) and still get simulated surround sound? If so, this is the road I've needed to go down since I started getting into audio.
> 
> If I had known about, or understood the implications of the Xonar ST not being able to output dolby headphone via the RCA/optical jacks I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. Unfortunately, back then I didn't realize how nice it is to have that simulated surround sound.


 

 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've confirmed it myself with an SU-DH1 (hardly an audiophile DAC, but still a DAC with S/PDIF input nonetheless). RightMark 3DSound's positioning and EAX test doesn't lie to my ears.
   
  You don't even really need one of the more expensive cards, since the main benefit of higher-end sound cards like the Titanium HD, anything Auzentech-built, and the Xonar Essence line is a higher-quality analog output stage, which is being completely bypassed by using a DAC. Lower-end X-Fi cards (XtremeAudio aside) also retain all the relevant DSP features like CMSS-3D Headphone and hardware EAX 5 (for older games that use it). In essence, you're using the sound card solely as a DSP to process the audio and letting a higher-end DAC convert it to analog more cleanly than the card itself can.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've confirmed it myself with an SU-DH1 (hardly an audiophile DAC, but still a DAC with S/PDIF input nonetheless). RightMark 3DSound's positioning and EAX test doesn't lie to my ears.
> 
> You don't even really need one of the more expensive cards, since the main benefit of higher-end sound cards like the Titanium HD, anything Auzentech-built, and the Xonar Essence line is a higher-quality analog output stage, which is being completely bypassed by using a DAC. Lower-end X-Fi cards (XtremeAudio aside) also retain all the relevant DSP features like CMSS-3D Headphone and hardware EAX 5 (for older games that use it). In essence, you're using the sound card solely as a DSP to process the audio and letting a higher-end DAC convert it to analog more cleanly than the card itself can.


 
   
   
  Sweet. Maybe I'll play around with the Titanium HD for a bit and then get an external DAC. Thanks for showing me the light.


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





farkim said:


> Hi,
> 
> First time poster, long time reader.
> I have done a lot of reading recently which is now only serving to confuse me (information overload).
> ...


 


  I've been extremely happy with the Sennheiser PC 360. If you get that for around $200, you will not need an amp (Though I have a decent Sound Card, not sure what exactly is the min requirements), and you will have a highly rated mic that many here have found worthwhile.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I recently borrowed my brother's copy of CoD Black Ops for the PS3. I haven't had much time to play games lately, but I fired it up and played one round with my DT990s hooked up via the Mixamp to E9. I played a round of Free For All. My stats are fresh (I'm not a PS3 CoD gamer).

First game: 30 kills, 1 death, with no killstreaks rewards except two Helis that killed 3 enemies (they got shot down quickly).

I was absolutely destroying everyone. The DT990s tend to be quite vicious at pinpointing enemies in this game, even with explosions.

Just makes me love them so much. I wouldn't even touch my PC360s if I didn't need a mic.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Just get the realizer and things should sound more surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would gladly accept one as a gift.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Haha same here.  My wallet ran away when I mentioned it... I need to go find it now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I would gladly accept one as a gift.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My wallet slapped me upside the head. It's been mad at me for quite a long time.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Hahahahaha!


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Hahahahaha!


 

 wallet? what's that? my wife confiscated everything that I can use to pay after my Ed8 and LCD2 adventure


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I still can't believe you did that, btw. I remember you asking me via pm, when you first started out. Now... you surpassed my spending habit... very, VERY quickly.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Whoa... my wife trusts me but she hasn't confiscated my wallet YET...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> wallet? what's that? my wife confiscated everything that I can use to pay after my Ed8 and LCD2 adventure


----------



## NamelessPFG

My wallet isn't very happy with me either.
   
  Not just because of Head-Fi compelling me to drop the big bucks for Stax, but also because of those digital distribution service sales over the holidays. I probably have over $2,000 worth of games on my Steam account right now...it's gotten to the point where my New Year's resolution is actually to buy less games and finish more of what I've already bought!
   
  One of these days, though, I'll have to sample the Smyth Realiser and/or the SR-009, if at all possible...it would be nice if I could do so without, you know, having to spend thousands of dollars I don't have first.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I held back on getting the Schiit Lyr (literally canceled at the last minute), in which I must say, I'm proud of myself. I realize that it's overkill for the DT990/600, and I realize I will always prefer the sound of SS amps. So I think I'm gonna get the Audio GD C-2.2, which is slightly cheaper and should have enough power to let the DT990 do it's thing. (200mw@600ohms vs 80mw@600ohm on the E9). That and I believe I'm gonna get another D7000 in the future, which sounds better on an SS amp than on the the Lyr for me, and it doesn't require all that ridiculous power.

I was gonna get the Lyr, but I realize, I'm not gonna get an Ortho to replace the DT990, so it's moot.

If and when I order the C-2.2

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2new/C2.2EN.htm

I will also order the Moon opamps which would settle the treble down on the DT990 a little, though I honestly find myself not having an issue with it lately.

As for a DAC upgrade, that will have to come later. Not sure if Bifrost or an Audio GD one. The Bifrost seems easier to use. I really wanted a Schiit combo... I wish the Asgard had a LOT of power. The people I know who have owned it and the E9, still say the E9 is better.


----------



## Phos

Ya know the C-2.2 should be able to handle any ortho short of an HE-6...
   
  Wouldn't really be surprised if it could handle them as well.  Audio GD amps are pretty powerful.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-4 did sound decent with the E9, but I could tell it was lacking compared to how the HE-4 sounded off the Lyr. Maybe if the HE400 sounds close to the HE4 (assuming Hifiman velours work for the HE400 without messing up the sound, as it comes with pleather pads), I might consider it. I'm just too happy with the DT990/600 to replace it, and I really do want a D7000 again, leaving no space for another open can. I'm too satisfied with the DT990.


----------



## Miniscream

Oh man I saw Mad Lust Envy online and just created a profile to ask a question and you were offline when I found the thread again lol I just sent back my A40 SR3 Wireless System package and A*STARS. Multiple Astro community volunteers told me my descriptions sounded like a faulty headset, but Support wouldn't send me a replacement to test, so I'm getting a refund. It's about what you say. I everything is clear but it doesn't put you into the action. I don't know all the technical terms as I started searching for that perfect headset a couple months ago after my Sony over ear headphones internal battery died. I tried the Turtle Beach DX11s out, and even though I liked them, full bass volume wasn't enough bass for me. Also my Skullcandy ear buds sounded just as good, if not better than both DX11 and A40s with MixAmp 5.8, and better than the A40s with sound positioning. I've heard that 5.1/7.1 doesn't give you up and down sound positioning, but I swear to you I hear when someone is above me with my Skullcandy and Sony. To think I bought them at FYE 2 years ago on Black Friday for $8 XD best sounding things I've ever heard. So yeah, those 4 products are the only things I've tried so far for gaming and movies. I loved my Sony headphones, but I wanted a headset to talk to my friends without unfomfortably sticking a 360 headset underneath and lowering the sound quality of my game.
   
  I mostly play MW3 because my friends play that, but I play many, many more games. When I wake up today I'm going to be calling some local Denon dealers to see if they have any D7000s for me to try out. That headphone seems to be the best fit for me, besides my family, friends, and girlfriend saying I'm absolutely insane on thinking about buying it, even my Astros. Especially my girlfriend. She's pissed I even bring them up in a window on the computer lol I can't spend $1000 from the producer, but I can possibly for $650 from dealers. I wouldn't have considered headphones until you or someone in Astro mentioned a clip on mic. I was wondering if you could suggest 1, 2, or 3 headphones/headsets for me. Even if they're new ones coming in 2013 you heard of, I can wait. I'm looking for something that can give me the best of both worlds. I'm not professional, but I am a competitive player when it comes to shooters. Then I also like to indulge and immerse myself into the story/music of games. If something has amazing music, I'll have chills and/or tears of joy because of how it sounds. Doesn't need sad lyrics. I don't watch a lot of movies but I always tell my girlfriend the 4th row in the back section in theaters are ideal for surround sound. I hate it when my friends want to sit all the way at the back wall. You pay $10 to see a movie with sound in front of you, and it's like watching a 50" tv from across the living room with no surround sound.
   
  If you could suggest a specific clip on mic along with an amp that would be awesome as well, as I don't know much about everything yet. I just know when something sounds good, or looks good when I hear it.
   
  EDIT: Are there any clip on mics that'll give me an amplified voice? That was one of my problems with the A40s. It was like trying to talk to someone next to you at a parade with a fire truck in front of you blowing the horn.


----------



## majnu

Any console players care to give their opinion on the new Brainwavz HM5's?
   
  I have the Sennhesier HD595's and they are a good all rounder for gaming where spacial awareness and positioning is important and for watching/listening to movies/music where sound quality is excellent.


----------



## Eric_C

JUST got my Mixamp. Old version, bought it used. Now to see if it adds anything to Skyrim...


----------



## FarKim

Back to my problem now. 
   
  Is it worth considering an external sound card?
  Are they better/worse/on par with internal?
  If worth considering can you suggest the best brand to look for?
  Still welcoming suggestions on most balanced headset options too.
   
  Need solution quick before wife figures out what I'm doing and confiscates my wallet also (and balls if she finds out what I'm likely to end up spending).


----------



## iambob911

Wow and I thought I did my homework. I feel like I should be paying you for all that great info. My a40s are being returned for defects and I wasn't overly happy with customer service when I was researching a replacement headset. I settled on the PC 360's and after reading your post I am sure I made the right decision. (pending confirmation of refund from astro). I have not made my mind up on a amp., my choice is between the new dds2 or the mix amp. Can you advise me please. You have the most detailed info out there. Is there a better choice for me. I am not a pro gamer but want the best I can afford.
   
   
  Thank you very much
  iambob911


----------



## obazavil

MixAmp and you will be very happy


----------



## Evarin

+1 for Astro Mixamp.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I still can't believe you did that, btw. I remember you asking me via pm, when you first started out. Now... you surpassed my spending habit... very, VERY quickly.


 


  Hehe... My wife didn't confiscate anything, I'm just kidding.
   
  I paid my last two cans doing extra freelancer jobs, and of course, I never told her how much they cost since technically, I didn't use my salary for that.
   
  But yeah.. my journey started wanting to buy cheap cans for gaming (Turtle Beach HPA-2). Then I knew about MixAmp and got 2 cans for single/multi gaming (DT990/K702), and in the end, I noticed I don't play that much, and I listen a lot to music, so I wanted something that sounds awesome with music and that also are good with gaming for my work (closed - Ed8) and my house (open - LCD2).
   
  I should have stayed with the CAL I bought for my wife from MLE hehe...
   
  Lately I'm wondering why I'm coming back to head-fi, since my upgraditis for cans is dead (thanks god). I'll get a better DAC later this year, after I can save money for my Fanatec or G27 wheel, so it will take a while.
   
  Is very fun to see ppl asking the same questions I once did... the travel for the "perfect headphone for me" is the most fun part.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *iambob911* /img/forum/go_quote.gif I settled on the PC 360's and after reading your post I am sure I made the right decision. (pending confirmation of refund from astro). I have not made my mind up on a amp., my choice is between the new dds2 or the mix amp. Can you advise me please.


 
   
  PC360 goes with the Mixamp.  Always.  Hopefully people realize that a DSS would defeat the purpose of the expensive PC360 headSET  -> since the mic won't work with the DSS.


----------



## Eric_C

Random MixAmp maintenance question: the rubbery sides of my unit have gathered lint. What can I use to wipe it?


----------



## Evarin

There are clothes sold in stores like Staples and what not that are treated to work safely on electronics. Avoid Windex and other cleaners. I have heard horror stories, but never actually tried spraying A/V equipment (Or even spraying a cloth, then cleaning) with it myself. I think Pledge makes an electronics safe cleaner as well.


----------



## IlSol

Hi everyone! My dt990 pro 250 have arrived two weeks ago and i'm LOVING them! The only problem so far is that I can't seem to get used to the pressure of the headband on my scalp, it just irritates my skin, any suggestion?


----------



## jghost23

So I've read through at least 30 pages of this thread and I would like to start off by saying thank you for the helpful information! I've played all of the Call of Duties and I currently play MW3 and I'm a complete newbie to this audiophile thing. I must say, I'm quite intrigued. I used to not be for headphones/headsets because it always felt uncomfortable on my head. But after using the Sony PS3 official headset for the past few weeks, I'm sold. Yes I know this headset isn't that good compared to the ones mentioned, but it only cost about $80. I plan to return it this weekend and buy what I truly desire with the help of this thread. I'm a gamer (PS3) at heart and love to be competitive (yet I require balance for more cinematic games). It seems the consensus for gaming is Astro Mixamp + PC 360. I was wondering if there is any difference between the sound qualified amplified by the Astro Mixamp 2011 edition (wired) vs the Astro Mixamp 8 (wireless)? I also saw others post about other amps such as the E9 or Lyr. What is the best amp to choose among the ones mentioned? I like the PC 360 but the boom mic seems huge compared to other mics on other headsets. I wish sennheiser was more cosmetically appealing with their design. I like the way the A40's look, yet I do not want to sacrifice sound quality for cosmetics. It seems only ignorant people think the A40's are awesome. I was on the fence of purchasing them until I came across this thread. And I am sure grateful! Otherwise I would of had buyer's remorse and not of felt happy with my $300 purchase. Also, if I were to buy the Astro mixamp 8 (wireless), does Astro's rechargeable battery pack work well? Does it last long? I've read somewhere (possibly this thread) that it dies fairly quickly and eventually doesn't hold a solid charge.
   
  To sum up this big wall of text:
   
  Astro Mixamp Pro, Astro mixamp 8 wireless - any difference in sound quality?
   
  E9, LYR - Are these able to be used for console gaming? and are they better than Mixamps?
   
  PC 360 - It seems this will fit my sound needs but I was wondering if there was any other headset with equivalent sound yet has a more cosmetically appealing design
   
  Lastly, this thread started at the beginning of 2011. It is now the beginning of January 2012. Do any of you savy audiophiles know when companies release their new line of products? (ie. iphone shows patterns of fall or summer of the proceeding year). Sadly, I'm not familiar with audiophile equipment and do not know when these companies release their products. If Sennheiser (or Astro regarding mixamp) will release a new headphone better than the PC 360 within 6 months...I may want to wait.
   
  Oh and MLE I added you on PSN. My gamer tag is the same as my name on here. Thanks all who took the time to read this! And to future replies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

External amps like the E9 and Lyr are mentioned mostly because some of us are using some pretty hard to drive headphones. Typical headSETS (i.e. PC360), are quite easy to drive, and don't benefit much (might even be worse) by adding an external amp.

The Mixamps sound 99.9% the same. The Wireless Mixamp has just a slight hint of audible noise floor which really isn't a factor while you're playing.

If you get the wireless Mixamp, do make sure to get the rechargeable batteries. It will save you of a headache, trust me. I don't own it, and the wireless Mixamp eats through my Eneloops, where I have to recharge them constantly (as in taking them out of the Mixamp to recharge), whereas the battery pack from Astro charges through the USB. I just don't wanna spend $40+ just to get the battery pack (stupid Astro shipping).

The PC360 is a perfect start for headset gaming. 

As for adding me, no prob. I don't play much now, but if I get on, it's been pretty much for watching movies, playing some Castlevania HD, and my brother let me borrow his PS3 version of Black Ops (which I greatly prefer over MW3). I'm mostly a 360 gamer, and I haven't been using that much either.


----------



## jghost23

Thanks for your super fast reply MLE. You provide better customer service/response time than best buy. Lol. I do not want to get into the upgrade race. So is there something out there that produces better sound than the PC360 that doesn't cost much more than it (even if it does.. is it remotely noticeable to the human ear?)? Will the PC360 be obsolete soon? It's a 1year old headset it seems. Would you still stick with the statement (opened > closed almost always for gaming as long as the environment permits it?). I also saw you say that you got the PC360 for $180. I see it priced at roughly $220. Where can I find it for $180? That would be awesome. I liked some of the headphones you guys posted, but yeah my budget does not surpass $300-400 USD (headset+ AMP budget). Also, I prefer the wireless mixamp because I play in my living room. Running a USB from my TV to my couch would not be ideal, and it would also look very messy.


----------



## autoteleology

So, I tried to explain the Mixamp to my dad, and we ended up getting in a silly fight because I didn't know enough details about it.

So... how exactly does the Mixamp work?

Also, can I double-amp with another amp (for volume into the amp, not out) without causing a large loss in the sound quality?

Finally, is there a big difference between the wired and wireless versions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sure, headphones tend to give out better sound quality than the PC360, but in terms of overall versatility, the PC360 is very hard to pass up. Not sure where to get it for $180 anymore (I think they go for $200 nowadays)

http://www.razordogdeals.com/products/sennheiser-pc-360-pc-gaming-headset-pc360

They are authorized, and that's where I got mine.

Yes, open headphones give out better SQ overall. Closed headphone's main strength is bass, but something like the DT990 is open AND bassy. If you want a solid headphone for gaming that the Mixamp can drive decently, look into the DT990 pros. They can go for around $170. They would be a good compliment to the PC360, if you want something with solid bass. The PC360 is well balanced, but not very fun in terms of enjoying explosions and stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> So, I tried to explain the Mixamp to my dad, and we ended up getting in a silly fight because I didn't know enough details about it.
> 
> So... how exactly does the Mixamp work?
> 
> ...




It's a gaming amp that adds Dolby Headphone virtual surround to headphones. It also has game and voice mixing, so you can alter the volume level of game audio and voice audio. I think every console gamer should own one, especially if you use a mic. Check the first post for more details.

Double amping is the only way to power some hard to drive cans and keep the benefit of Dolby Headphone for console gamers. The slight hit in fidelity will still be much more beneficial than underamping headphones. Due to the nature of a DSP like Dolby Headphone, it will hide the negative aspects of double amping anyway.

Oh BTW, my DT990/600 double amped via the Mixamp 5.8 and E9 is almost dead silent even when the Mixamp is maxed out. That's a benefit of hard to drive headphones: low noise floor


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 is a *perfect start* for headset gaming.


 
   
  start? heh... It should be the end of the road 
   
  Don't scare him


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean that in the way that if you start with the PC360, there really won't be anything to upgrade to in terms of a headset. Perfect start/finish? Lol. 

The MMX300 is the other option, but it's closed and more expensive.



:eek:

People have money to BURN.


----------



## jghost23

So you would suggest getting the DT990s and the PC360? I wish they made headsets as good as they made headphones. It's depressing lol. A mic is vital to me as I have a clan in MW3 and chat communication is essential to winning.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that would be a stellar combo for all your needs. The DT990 Pro for immersive and single player gaming, the PC360 for when you're in competitive mode.

I should have fully reviewed the DT990 Pros. I would easily recommend them over the DT770 Pro 80 for the same purposes, unless you needed isolation.


----------



## jghost23

Lol agreed. I don't know how some of you afford to try out all these headphones. Unless you buy them, use for 30 days, then return them.
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> start? heh... It should be the end of the road
> 
> Don't scare him


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

So is it true that the HD555 to 595 mod sounds like the pc360?  I got the Hd555 for my wife and took out the netting and clipped the plastic in the earphone but since I sold my He-4 I don't use anything with my mix amp but her hd555 for gaming.  I feel bad for using her HP.  I'm debating to get the PC360.  Is it better sounding or similar?


----------



## jghost23

As far as figuring out how to say money. Is it true I could buy the Mixamp/A40 combo.. and sell the headphones brand new on Ebay for $200?? Saving me $50. Mixamp alone is $130 I think. So 280-200=80, 130-80 = 50 dollar savings.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hawaiiancerveza said:


> So is it true that the HD555 to 595 mod sounds like the pc360?  I got the Hd555 for my wife and took out the netting and clipped the plastic in the earphone but since I sold my He-4 I don't use anything with my mix amp but her hd555 for gaming.  I feel bad for using her HP.  I'm debating to get the PC360.  Is it better sounding or similar?




I honestly don't know myself. I would believe that the HD595 and PC360 would sound somewhat similar, though housing and design would alter the sound in a way to make them not sound completely identical.

Oh yeah, to those interested in the DT990 pro, I'd wait until they are around $170 to get them. Amazon is currently selling them for $250, which is the highest I've ever seen them.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ok thanks for the advice!  In any case I may just use it because I know my wife likes to game with her hd555's.


----------



## derycksan

So quick question to see if anyone else has noticed this.
   
  In Battlefield 3 I've had some directional clipping going on. For instance, say a helicopter is hovering at 12 o'clock.  If Iurn around there's a large "gap" or clip in the sound switching from ear to ear.  Doesn't always happen but very annoying when it does.  Trying to figure out if its the game (only one I've noticed this on), my headphones or something else.  I mainly play using my Pro 550's on a Xonar DG, running stereo (may actually have enhanced headphone in game settings right now, need to double check).


----------



## jghost23

If I ever decide to game on PC.. will the mixamp help when gaming on PC as well? Or it's better to buy a good dedicated soundcard?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> JUST got my Mixamp. Old version, bought it used. Now to see if it adds anything to Skyrim...


 

 Go through the intro sequence again, just as you're about to be executed until Alduin wrecks the whole place...there will be a brief moment when your head's facing the ground and you can distinctly hear the chaos and carnage happening from behind your head. I think it's a nice, immersive touch.
   
  Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> So, I tried to explain the Mixamp to my dad, and we ended up getting in a silly fight because I didn't know enough details about it.
> So... how exactly does the Mixamp work?
> Also, can I double-amp with another amp (for volume into the amp, not out) without causing a large loss in the sound quality?
> Finally, is there a big difference between the wired and wireless versions?


 

 Here's how the Mixamp and similar devices work, depending on input:
   
  Dolby Digital signal over S/PDIF -> decode digital audio -> apply Dolby Headphone if turned on -> output processed analog two-channel signal.
  Dolby Pro Logic II-processed two-channel analog signal -> decode matrixed PLII information -> apply DH if turned on -> output processed analog signal.
   
  In a nutshell, it's both a DAC and a DSP for providing virtual 5.1 out of headphones.
   
  As for double-amping, let me put it this way: every analog audio output is amplified to some extent, or else it wouldn't work. Try not to worry about it too much-just make sure each device in the chain has its volume set to a level that doesn't introduce clipping or other artifacts.
   
  Finally, as for wired and wireless versions...I can't answer that. I don't own or have tried any of the Mixamp variants; I use a discontinued JVC/Victor SU-DH1 for that purpose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I owned both wired and wireless. They sound identical, The wired is slightly more powerful (you can drive the 600ohms Beyers at least loudly when fully powering game audio, whereas the wireless struggles to give them enough volume, let alone driving them decently). The wireless is also just ever so slightly brighter than the wired... talking about very insignificant difference in sound signature. Trained ears probably won't hear the difference 99% of the time.

People, keep in mind that the Mixamp isn't meant to handle 600ohm loads, so even if the wired drives it loudly, doesn't mean it drives it anything close to well, which is why an external amp is very beneficial.


----------



## jghost23

Is there any cheaper place than astrogaming where I can buy a mixamp ( BRAND NEW)? Thanks MLE for the razor website. Their PC 360 is 20 bucks cheaper than amazon. Do they have a decent return policy?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not sure. It's the only thing I bought from them, and I kept mine. The headband padding snagged on something and ripped it, so I'm sure I voided the warranty, lol.

Astrogaming is the only seller, so you can only buy it from them new, or try finding one used elsewhere.

Trust me, I'd have loved nothing more than to skip on getting it from them. Their shipping prices are absolutely absurd.


----------



## jghost23

Yeah I heard they are like $30 USD just to ship.....If I buy the PC 360 and the Mixamp 8 Wireless. Do I need any other cables besides an Optical? Should I buy astro's optical or go to radio shack and buy a cheap optical cable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It *should* come with an optical cable (very thin one, but optical cables all sound 100% the same). You can get good opticals from Amazon or Monoprice... DON'T get the optical cable from Monoprice with the fancy sleeve. Those can damage your optical ports due to heavy /bulky tips (messed up the opitcal input of my old wired mixamp, as well as my soundbar's optical port). Get the basic black one which is cheaper, and more flexible.


----------



## chicolom

A lot of people have piercing treble...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HEY, the treble isn't as bad as I remember of my old DT990. :angry_face:


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I mean that in the way that if you start with the PC360, there really won't be anything to upgrade to in terms of a headset. Perfect start/finish? Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I imagine they're just buying both and returning the one they don't like as much.  
   
   


  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It *should* come with an optical cable (very thin one, but optical cables all sound 100% the same). You can get good opticals from Amazon or Monoprice... DON'T get the optical cable from Monoprice with the fancy sleeve. Those can damage your optical ports due to heavy /bulky tips (messed up the opitcal input of my old wired mixamp, as well as my soundbar's optical port). Get the basic black one which is cheaper, and more flexible.


 

 That very thin optical cable contains all the working parts of the thicker one.  There's no point to shielding an optical cable beyond visual occlusion, and having the fiber itself widen past the tiny opening would probably result in internal reflections.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I'm saying. The fancy one is just for looks, and to me is bound to be cumbersome.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Go through the intro sequence again, just as you're about to be executed until Alduin wrecks the whole place...there will be a brief moment when your head's facing the ground and you can distinctly hear the chaos and carnage happening from behind your head. I think it's a nice, immersive touch.


 

 Good idea! Except I don't want to risk accidentally saving over my character again. I lost 23 hours of gameplay because I got mixed up between characters, and the save screen looks too similar to the load screen. Sigh.
   
  MixAmp helped me spot a bandit in a cave though! I cleared one room and heard someone working on an anvil in an adjoining room, up the stairs. Snuck in and wrecked that fool.
   


  Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> If I ever decide to game on PC.. will the mixamp help when gaming on PC as well? Or it's better to buy a good dedicated soundcard?


 

 It helps. I dunno about "better", but on TOSLink in Skyrim, it sounds better. Haven't tried BF3 or any console gaming yet though.
   


  Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Also, can I double-amp with another amp (*for volume into the amp*, not out) without causing a large loss in the sound quality?


 

 Just to be clear, are you intending your double-amping setup to be like this:
  MixAmp > 2nd amp
  or
  2nd amp > MixAmp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just in case people don't know, you want the Mixamp to be the FIRST amp in the chain, in order for it to receive the proper Dolby Digital or PLII signal, in which the next amp can uhh, amp. If you use another amp first, you will surely lose the signal needed for proper Dolby Headphone.

Eric, you enjoying the Mixamp?


----------



## Rebel975

You always go Mixamp > 2nd amp, otherwise you're essentially putting your amp before your DAC. Unless you're using the analog inputs on the mixamp, which we've already determined would not be a good idea. Besides, running an amp into the analog inputs on the mixamp would surely fry something, and you wouldn't even get the benefit of a separate amp to the headphones.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> If I ever decide to game on PC.. will the mixamp help when gaming on PC as well? Or it's better to buy a good dedicated soundcard?


 


   
  If you don't want to spend the money for a soundcard that does virtual surround, the mixamp is nice, but switching between one setup and the other was a bit circuitous when I was using the X-Fi + DSS combo for a while.  I stopped bothering because CMSS-headphone is fine for my purposes.  I imagine it'll be easier with an Asus dolby HP card because you don't have to switch modes (a process that can freeze your computer if you do it wrong) to go between a gaming set up and listening set up.
   
  Now I have a nice set up using my Audio GD NFB-5 and X-Fi.  I have the NFB-5 connected over both optical and coaxial (And USB because why not), with optical coming off my X-Fi and coax from my motherboard.  Then I set foobar to output over my motherboard's SPIDF and can switch between a gaming optimized set up and music set up with one button on the NFB-5.  If I need a mic I can plug my PC-360 into the front panel and turn off my NFB-5.
   
  Also, one thing about the Turtle Beach DSS: It introduces a bit of lag into the audio.  I found this out because the X-Fi can play everything to both the analog out and digital at the same time.  I dunno if the mixamp does the same.  I can't help but be curious if anyone has both an X-Fi and a mixamp could compare?


----------



## Rebel975

Does anyone know if the optical out on the wireless mixamp is a straight passthrough, or if it's processed for Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Eric_C

MLE: Yeah, I never realised how "flat" stereo sounded for games. Playing with MixAmp + 880 is quite a treat.
  I do suspect that the sound is a bit thinner now, though.


----------



## Metsfan77

Nice Write up Mad Lust Envy. I think it was extremely detailed and extremely informative. Can you tell me what you feel is the best headset and mixamp for competitive gaming? It sounds like the 5.8 mixamp from Astro and the DD700 headset? I really dont have a budget, but I dont mind spending money on something that will help me be a better gamer...Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Does anyone know if the optical out on the wireless mixamp is a straight passthrough, or if it's processed for Dolby Headphone?


 

 I don't think there is an optical output on the mixamp.  It seems to have an optical and coax input, though it would be nice if that was coax out back there.


----------



## Rebel975

The wireless mixamp has an optical output.


----------



## chicolom

Wieless mixamp is optical passthrough, no processing.


----------



## Rebel975

Thanks.


----------



## Miniscream

I'm sorry, but was my question answered? I'm guessing it was about the PC360, but would the PC360 give me the best of both worlds better than any other combo? I'm on no budget except that I find it reasonable to say I can't afford both the D7000 and Bursons amp. I am picky about the sound headphones/headsets give, and I know Turtle Beaches and Astros are not my thing. I liked I could hear my own voice though with the TB. I want to enjoy the games I'm playing, be able to pick up sounds, and comfortably talk to my friends at the same time.


----------



## jghost23

I'm probably in the same boat as you. I've been reading for about a month now. And it seems the consensus is the PC 360. I could not find, nor was a recommended any other headset for the most part. MLE posted his review on the PC 360 I believe on the very first page of this thread. Check it out. The only downside it seems is possibly the price, and the open headset lacks privacy. I'm a newbie but hope I helped you out some.
  Quote:


miniscream said:


> I'm sorry, but was my question answered? I'm guessing it was about the PC360, but would the PC360 give me the best of both worlds better than any other combo? I'm on no budget except that I find it reasonable to say I can't afford both the D7000 and Bursons amp. I am picky about the sound headphones/headsets give, and I know Turtle Beaches and Astros are not my thing. I liked I could hear my own voice though with the TB. I want to enjoy the games I'm playing, be able to pick up sounds, and comfortably talk to my friends at the same time.


----------



## jghost23

Phos, thank you for your sophisticated response. Very detailed. I do not have a gaming PC yet so I'll leave it alone for now. MLE.....So you said the wireless mixamp comes with an optical cable.. do I need to buy a longer one though? And do you know if I need to buy the PS3 chat cable for the wireless mixamp? Is it just a plane USB cable?? Because I have plenty of those.


----------



## Miniscream

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *jghost23* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The only downside it seems is possibly the price, and the open headset lacks privacy. I'm a newbie but hope I helped you out some.


 


 Thanks for replying at all lol. I might get a PC360 if I can't have real knowledgeable people help me, but my heart is set on a headphone since headphones are naturally built for sound they should have better SQ. Then I could just put it in an amp and clip on a mic. I'm afraid I won't be able to hear myself talk since it's a clip on mic, which is partly why I disliked the A40s.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Phos, thank you for your sophisticated response. Very detailed. I do not have a gaming PC yet so I'll leave it alone for now. MLE.....So you said the wireless mixamp comes with an optical cable.. do I need to buy a longer one though? And do you know if I need to buy the PS3 chat cable for the wireless mixamp? Is it just a plane USB cable?? Because I have plenty of those.


 


  If you're on PS3 and plan to/want to chat, then you're going to need the ps3 chat cable.  It is (unfortunately) not a standard USB cable so you don't really have a choice but to buy it from them.  As far as the longer optical cable -- well, that really depends on where you plan on putting the base.  The included cable is plenty long enough if you plan on putting the base next to your console, not sure how much beyond that though.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





miniscream said:


> Thanks for replying at all lol. I might get a PC360 if I can't have real knowledgeable people help me, but my heart is set on a headphone since headphones are naturally built for sound they should have better SQ. Then I could just put it in an amp and clip on a mic. I'm afraid I won't be able to hear myself talk since it's a clip on mic, which is partly why I disliked the A40s.


 
   
  You plan on using the Astro mixamp?  If so, you won't have the problem of not being able to hear yourself regardless if you go headset or not.  Choose the headphone of your liking, throw on a clip on mic (or better yet AntLion Mod Mic) and you're set.


----------



## Evarin

I never have a problem hearing myself talk with the PC 360. You may with something like the MMX 300/DT770, but I can't speak from experience there.


----------



## jghost23

MLE recommended the DT 990s for more cinematic games/sound involved movies. I hope that's the right model number.  I was wondering, MLE, or anyone who has the knowledge. Do the DT 990s require double amping?? or will the mixamp be plenty to power it?


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> MLE recommended the DT 990s for more cinematic games/sound involved movies. I hope that's the right model number.  I was wondering, MLE, or anyone who has the knowledge. Do the DT 990s require double amping?? or will the mixamp be plenty to power it?


 


  Depending on the Ohms.
   
  DT990/600 NEEDS double amping (E9 for example) since they are very hard to drive


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> If I ever decide to game on PC.. will the mixamp help when gaming on PC as well? Or it's better to buy a good dedicated soundcard?


 

 The Mixamp would help, but you'd get a lot more bang for your buck with a sound card for PC gaming (unless you're stuck on a laptop that can't take internal sound cards).
   
  Xonar DG if you want to keep it on the cheap and have a PCI slot free, or X-Fi Forte (from a newer batch) or Titanium HD if you want to spend Mixamp-level money and want something with a PCI-Express interface that's sure to last across many motherboard upgrades.


----------



## jghost23

Can I double AMP with a wireless mixamp and an E9???
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Depending on the Ohms.
> 
> DT990/600 NEEDS double amping (E9 for example) since they are very hard to drive


----------



## Rebel975

Yes. Just connect the wireless mixamp's headphone output to the input on your amp.


----------



## jghost23

Not sure what you mean by "depending on OHMS." Sorry I'm a newbie to this. So basically will the DT 990s be require a double AMP? I'll be mainly using them on consoles. Also, if I'm looking for a more SQ type headphone wouldn't it be better to go for closed headphones? I think the DT 990s are open? Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Not sure what you mean by "depending on OHMS." Sorry I'm a newbie to this. So basically will the DT 990s be require a double AMP? I'll be mainly using them on consoles. Also, if I'm looking for a more SQ type headphone wouldn't it be better to go for closed headphones? I think the DT 990s are open? Correct me if I'm wrong.


 


  Easy to drive headphones (iBuds, PC360, Creative Aurvana Live) are ~ 50 Ohms.
  They don't need an amp... at all.
   
  There are some headphones that are 80 ohms, 250 ohms, 600 ohms.
   
  The bigger the number, the harder they are to drive, so for 600 Ohms an amp is a MUST.
   
  DT990 (for example) has flavors of 32, 250 and 600 Ohms
   
  Depending on the number, the sound changes a little. The most audiophile version is the 600 ohms, but basically, each has a different sound.
   
  So, if you want more SQ concensus is to get the 600 Ohms of DT990 (IMHO, YMMV, etc).
   
  Is just get zo2, pc360 and be happy, hahaha  (i have not used zo2 myself, but read do wonders for bass).
  Don't remember if 32 and 250 ohms headphones need an amp after mixamp


----------



## Rebel975

There are different versions of the DT990. 
   
  32 ohm: http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-990-Premium-32-Headphones/dp/B0024NK344
   
  250 ohm: http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-990-Premium-250-Ohm/dp/B000F2BLTW
   
  600 ohm: http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-600-Headphones/dp/B0024NK34O
   
   
  Basically, impedance (measured in "ohms", symbol: Ω) is the resistance to electricity. Higher Ω means a headphone is harder to power, but it also has some benefits. Without getting into that, all you need to worry about is the fact that the Mixamp will have a hard time powering anything over 250 ohms, especially if you mix in some chat volume.
   
  The other factor you have to worry about is sensitivity, which is the amount of volume you can get out of a given amount of power.
   
  So basically... an amp can do X amount of power into Y ohms, and this, combined with your Z sensitivity, will tell you how much volume you can achieve out of a given headphone and amp combination. Higher ohms will give less volume on any given amplifier. Lower ohms will give more volume.
   
   
  To put it in simpler terms: The DT990 32Ω will not need a second amplifier. The 600Ω will.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, the DT880/32ohm felt harder to drive than the DT990 Pro 250 ohm. Seriously. Beyer 32oms felt lacking considerably when unamped. Though that's in terms of non-gaming performance. The Mixamp will drive 32 and 250 ohms loudly, though that's without voice chat mixed in.


----------



## Mavekovis

Is the wired mixamp you talked about in the first pages mixamp pro ?
   
  I'm wondering if mixamp pro has the bass enhancer that mixamp 5.8 has.. and also if it is wired, because I really don't want to switch batteries when gaming. also less hissing would be nice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp Pro is the wired Mixamp. That's not a bass expander button, but the DH Mode button. The Pro doesn't have a bass expander. It wasn't called the Pro until recently. They renamed it to identify between the wired, and wireless.


----------



## Eric_C

Check the official product pages, it should clear up a lot of questions you may have about the MixAmps.
  www.astrogaming.com


----------



## jghost23

Great info! Thank you. So they are different tiers of the DT 990s? Tiers divided by OHMS? Would you consider the. I can't find the zo2s on amazon. Which are better for SQ? DT 990s or zo2's?
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Easy to drive headphones (iBuds, PC360, Creative Aurvana Live) are ~ 50 Ohms.
> They don't need an amp... at all.
> 
> There are some headphones that are 80 ohms, 250 ohms, 600 ohms.
> ...


----------



## Rebel975

The Zo2 is an amp/equalizer. It's not a headphone.


----------



## jghost23

Oh ok, why would I need a Z02 on top of my mixamp for the PC 360?? I thought it didn't need double amping.


----------



## obazavil

zo is a kind bass enhancer

http://www.digizoid.com/zo/


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It wasn't called the Pro until recently. They renamed it to identify between the wired, and wireless.


 

 I thought they renamed it to make it a bit more distinct from the older A40 Mixamp revision, which also has some changes to the knobs (they're not beveled on top on the Mixamp Pro). The functional differences seem to be more robust USB capabilities for PS3 and PC users.
   
  If there's even more small revisions on top of that, they sure don't make it clear as to what's changed...


----------



## jghost23

I apologize if this is a stupid question. But if I use the wireless mixamp, will the PC 360 be powered by the mixamps batteries?


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> I apologize if this is a stupid question. But if I use the wireless mixamp, will the PC 360 be powered by the mixamps batteries?


 

  
   
  Yes, they will be.


----------



## chicolom

The wired mixamp can run off usb power instead of batteries, same as the wired mixamp.  Wired mixamp is most likely called "Pro" because its the one MLG uses; wireless mixamps all over the place would be an interference nightmare.


----------



## jghost23

I will be using a wireless mixamp as MLE has stated there is no noticeable difference in SQ between wired and wireless. Plus, I play in my living room. And my TV is not feasibility near me to run a wired mixamp all the way to my couch. It would be too messy.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The wired mixamp can run off usb power instead of batteries, same as the wired mixamp.  Wired mixamp is most likely called "Pro" because its the one MLG uses; wireless mixamps all over the place would be an interference nightmare.


----------



## Brick T0p

Probably the most interesting topic about gaming headphones/headsets I've ever red. Great work Mad Lust Envy, I really appreciate your posts! But of course, I can't read all 204 pages so I apologize if this question has been asked before.
   
  I am currently looking for a new gaming headset (or headphones). First, I was only looking at the headsets because I didn't even know a lot of people used the combination of headphones + separate mic. But on an other forum, someone advised me to look up some headphone-reviews like the AD700 and that's how I ended up here and I already red some very interesting stuff over here.
   
  But honestly, I still prefer a descent headset because that's an 'all-in-one-solution'. Besides that, a lot of the headphones you reviewed are quite expensive _and_ hard to find in Belgium. So I was happy to see that you really appreciated the Sennheiser PC360; it's a headset and it fits my budget perfectly. I don't know when you wrote that review but has anything changed since then? Are there other headsets I should take a look at? My budget is somewhere around 200$ so there are a lot of headsets to choose from: Corsair 1500, Tritton Ax Pro (not an option since you didn't seem to like it ), Razer Megalodon,...
   
  Can any of these expensive headsets match the Sennheiser PC360? Or is the PC360 still 'the way to go' if you are looking for a good gaming headset?
   
  Thanks in advance for possible replies!
   
  B.T.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I still absolutely recommend the PC360. It's incredibly solid and well balanced for all forms of gaming. It's not going to jump out and grab you in terms of dynamics, but it won't lack in anything really. It's just a very great performer, and should honestly be what people should consider as their headset.

New headsets have arrived, like the Tritton Warhead and Turtle Beach Deltas, but I haven't had the chance to try those, nor do I want to. I'm completely satisfied with the PC360+Mixamp combo. For anything else, that's what non-gaming headphones are for.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> I will be using a wireless mixamp as MLE has stated there is no noticeable difference in SQ between wired and wireless. Plus, I play in my living room. And my TV is not feasibility near me to run a wired mixamp all the way to my couch. It would be too messy.


 
  If you have an electrical outlet near your seating position, you can always use an USB cable with AC adapter to power your wireless mixamp.  I've done this before in a pinch and it works great.


----------



## Brick T0p

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I still absolutely recommend the PC360. It's incredibly solid and well balanced for all forms of gaming. It's not going to jump out and grab you in terms of dynamics, but it won't lack in anything really. It's just a very great performer, and should honestly be what people should consider as their headset.
> New headsets have arrived, like the Tritton Warhead and Turtle Beach Deltas, but I haven't had the chance to try those, nor do I want to. I'm completely satisfied with the PC360+Mixamp combo. For anything else, that's what non-gaming headphones are for.


 


  Thanks for replying so fast, really appreciate it!
   
  Ok, I made my choice and I'm going to order a PC360. But what exactly does the 'Astro MixAmp USB 7.1 Surround' do? Does it do the same as a dedicated soundcard? Because a mixamp is quite expensive and hard to get (I'm talking about Belgium right now), while a dedicated soundcard only costs half as much (the Asus Xonar D1 for example).
   
  Or am I now mixing up two different pieces of hardware?


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





brick t0p said:


> Thanks for replying so fast, really appreciate it!
> 
> Ok, I made my choice and I'm going to order a PC360. But what exactly does the 'Astro MixAmp USB 7.1 Surround' do? Does it do the same as a dedicated soundcard? Because a mixamp is quite expensive and hard to get (I'm talking about Belgium right now), while a dedicated soundcard only costs half as much (the Asus Xonar D1 for example).
> 
> Or am I now mixing up two different pieces of hardware?


 

 If you're gaming on consoles then get the mixamp, if you're gaming on the pc get a good sound card. If you use the mixamp on the pc using the usb it just works as a stereo amp, you dont get use of any of it's features.


----------



## Brick T0p

Quote: 





weez82 said:


> If you're gaming on consoles then get the mixamp, if you're gaming on the pc get a good sound card. If you use the mixamp on the pc using the usb it just works as a stereo amp, you dont get use of any of it's features.


 


  Ok, thanks for your reply Weez. A soundcard is a lot cheaper so that way I can save some money.


----------



## theguythatthe

I currently have the Tritton AX 720.  How much of an improvement in overall sound quality and directional cues would I likely experience if I were to use the PC 360s with the 720 amp?
   
  How does the bass in the 720 headphones and the PC 360s compare?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Thanks for the read Shin (Hope you don't mind, mad lust is rather long). Your post was very helpful on the gaming side of things but didn't delve too deeply into how the headphones were for music. I'll read up some more on how each of the recommended phones perform in regards to music in the other threads then get back to you, but for now I wanted to ask when you tested these phones did you test them using sitrep pro or without.
   
  When I was playing mw2 I purchased the x1's (my first gaming headset) and I have to say my game improved greatly. Then when I unlocked sitrep pro my game improved even more dramatically. Although it was using stereo sound I was able to pinpoint the direction of enemies. I felt like I was cheating. Unless they were using Ninja pro nobody would be able to sneak up on me. Looking back now I think this had more to do with me knowing the maps so well rather than the x1's pinpointing the sound (I'm no audiophile). When blackops came out however, I could hardly hear enemies sneaking up on me. I haven't researched it but I'm pretty sure it's because the developers messed around with the sound to take the advantage away. 
   
  It seems the same case with mw3. I have the x41's and I have the same problem with hearing footsteps. the sound isn't as much of an advantage to me as it used to be. I have a feeling the devs deliberately did this. Anyway the question I wanted to ask was have you played BO and MW3 and do you feel the same? 
   
  On the topic of x41's, I'm surprised you haven't tried them considering your list is quite impressive. Gotta say I really hate them. The amount of hissing is just ridiculous and drives you mad. One good thing about it is that the soundstage is pretty good, and the bass boost button is brilliant. I got it for half the RRP though and I feel my money isn't completely wasted since I have the amp that comes with it, which I intend to put to good use by getting a pair of good phones. When you say fun what do you actually mean? Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance


----------



## RayleighSilvers

This thread is so long (204 pages!), can I just ask what was discussed and if there was any useful information that was mention e.g a pair of headphones other than the ones the OP mentioned that are good for gaming with dolby.


----------



## Evarin

So you're looking for headphones other than the ones mentioned in the original updated thread to consider, is that right? Might I ask why? What are you looking to get out of these headphones/Headset? What uses aside from gaming would you be looking to get out of them?


----------



## Rebel975

Just thought I'd report in to say that I picked up a Titanium HD and it's awesome. I've really missed virtual surround sound on my single player PC gaming.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





evarin said:


> So you're looking for headphones other than the ones mentioned in the original updated thread to consider, is that right? Might I ask why? What are you looking to get out of these headphones/Headset? What uses aside from gaming would you be looking to get out of them?


 


  I'm just keeping my options open. Out of the headphones the Op mentioned there are only 2 that I can realistically afford, the AT770 and the HD598. Both are very different. My requirements for headphones are quite a bit more broad. They need to be good for Cod, but they also need to be great for music i.e J-pop/rock. I'm also thinking of using these for the Wii (still haven't played Zelda!). From what I've read the 598 lacks bass and is very neutral. I've never listened to high end-headphones so I might find these a bit cold and boring. The DT770 tick nearly all the boxes but the bass is a slight concern since the x41 amp doesn't have an Equaliser (The DT770 looks terrible compared to the 598's)


----------



## Naingolann

There's also the AKG701 (or Q701) that you should take into account as well. A lil bit over your budget, but still worthy of consideration...
   
  Or if you are worried about the bass, then there's the Senn 558. Not as boomy as the 770, but definitely better than the 555/598.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How is the 558 better than the 598? They are in the same series, and the 598 is the higher end version... Unless you meant the 558 being better than the 595.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> There's also the AKG701 (or Q701) that you should take into account as well. A lil bit over your budget, but still worthy of consideration...
> 
> Or if you are worried about the bass, then there's the Senn 558. Not as boomy as the 770, but definitely better than the 555/598.


 


  It's quite a lot out of my price range 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The lowest price I could find is higher than the rrp of the DT770's! I haven't done enough research on the 558's but I did try them in an HMV shop and out of all the phones they had there, they sounded the best to me. Sound leakage might be a problem though as I don't really like other people hearing what I'm listening to but I don't really keep my music loud. Thanks for suggesting them, I was being rather close minded. I'll do some research.
   
  Edit: While we're on the subject on AKG, how would you rate the K240 mkII?


----------



## theguythatthe

I currently have the Tritton AX 720.  How much of an improvement in overall sound quality and directional cues would I likely experience if I were to use the PC 360s with the 720 amp?
   
  How does the bass in the 720 headphones and the PC 360s compare?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Miniscream

Hey guys. So I find I get faster replies if I just post a question lol
   
  -I have a refurbished Denon AH-D7000 pair being sent to my house for $600
   
  -Thinking about getting the MixAmp 5.8 (I've already went through the A40s with them as a package, sent them back)
   
  -Zalman clip on mic, thinking about switching to Labtec boom mic or some adhesive attatchment mic
   
  My main question is, are there any amps other than the MixAmp that will allow me to have quality sound and be able to chat with friends on my XBOX and PS3 (or just XBOX)? I had a guy test it out for me and it IS the MixAmp that gave me little to no voice monitoring, and that's why I'm asking this. Since I can't hear myself I speak louder to wake up my parent and I speak mumbo jumbo to my friends sometimes. I have $400 left in my budget, maybe more once I get my refund from Astro. Please help


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How is the 558 better than the 598? They are in the same series, and the 598 is the higher end version... Unless you meant the 558 being better than the 595.


 


  Meant the 595 indeed. Sorry. 
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *RayleighSilvers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It's quite a lot out of my price range
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're welcome. In all honesty, all this talk about the sound leakage is excessive in my opinion. I mean, I own the 555 and play at mid levels and it definitely leaks, but not that much...
   
  I don't know much about the AKG, sorry. I know only about the models I have mentioned before because I was looking for a new pair of headphones and did some research here on the forums and asked some users who had them already.


----------



## Cheapy

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> It's quite a lot out of my price range
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Have a look at Thomann online store. They are based in Germany but have the AKG K701 for ~£163 delivered which seems to be the cheapest way to get them in the UK. Dont know how close the K701 is to the next one down the K601 but the K601 is in the DT770's price range.
   
  When I was looking the AKG K240 mkII was meant to have a small soundstage hence not great for gaming. The Fischer Audio FA-011 could be an option but Frogbeats who sells them in the UK still havnt got any new stock in.
   
  Im waiting on my Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO's to arrive which could be another option but then you need an amp and things get messy fast.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miniscream said:


> Hey guys. So I find I get faster replies if I just post a question lol
> 
> -I have a refurbished Denon AH-D7000 pair being sent to my house for $600
> 
> ...




The only others is like the AX720, but it essentially the same as the Mixamp. I don't understand the need to hear yourself. Talk normally, the others will hear you just fine...oh wait you're using the god awful Zalman that you pretty much DO need to scream into. Get the dealextreme clip on. Just like the Zalman... except it works... and costs less than $5.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only others is like the AX720, but it essentially the same as the Mixamp. I don't understand the need to hear yourself. Talk normally, the others will hear you just fine...oh wait you're using the god awful Zalman that you pretty much DO need to scream into. Get the dealextreme clip on. Just like the Zalman... except it works... and costs less than $5.


 


  Exactly. 
   
  If the deal extreme is too cheap looking/feeling or you can't wait the month it will take to show up -- take a look at the AntLion ModMic.  That's an excellent way to add a boom mic to a headphone.


----------



## moimd

I wanted to get a Mixamp pro for my PC, since I didnt feel the need for wireless, but they have a rechargable battery option for the pro version also. Is the wired amp itself battery powered?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired amp can be powered via USB or batteries/battery pack. Considering the wired version is already tethered to various things, I find the battery pack/batteries pointless.


----------



## theguythatthe

Since I've been ignored twice now, I figured I'll try again.
   
   I currently have the Tritton AX 720.  How much of an improvement in overall sound quality and directional cues would I likely experience if I were to use the PC 360s with the 720 amp?
   
  How does the bass in the 720 headphones and the PC 360s compare?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## obazavil

I read you before, but I haven't own any of those, so I can't comment 
   
  Hey ppl! don't be lazy! answer 
  
  Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Since I've been ignored twice now, I figured I'll try again.
> 
> I currently have the Tritton AX 720.  How much of an improvement in overall sound quality and directional cues would I likely experience if I were to use the PC 360s with the 720 amp?
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric_C

theguythatthe said:


> Since I've been ignored twice now, I figured I'll try again.
> 
> I currently have the Tritton AX 720.  How much of an improvement in overall sound quality and directional cues would I likely experience if I were to use the PC 360s with the 720 amp?
> 
> ...




Maybe you're not being ignored, but people don't have an answer? For eg I saw your question but have no experience with either the Sennheiser or Tritton, so naturally I can't respond. 

Besides, it's only been 7 hours.


----------



## Rebel975

You'll be hard pressed to find someone who has had both the PC360 and the AX720.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the AX720 and PC360 in the house at the same time (roomie owned the AX720, while I owned the PC360). The PC360 is a pretty significant upgrade over the AX720. Clarity, positioning, soundstage are all better on the PC360. The AX720 is a closed headphone which takes a huge hit on competing with a stellar open can like the PC360. AX720 is a good starter headset, while the PC360 is a good ENDGAME headset.

However, if you're thinking about pairing the Pc360 with the AX720's amp, certain people on Avsforum have had issues getting the mic on the PC360 to function with the AX720 amp. I don't recall pairing them up together, and if I did, I'm sure I didn't test the mic. My tests here have nothing to do with the mic.


----------



## sabzingeur

it seems every headphone has a different impedance, at which level of impedance will a headphone required for them for optimal results? As I have a dedicated sound card, will MixAmp benefit me?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Mad lust, did you use sitrep pro (i.e louder enemy footsteps) when testing these? Also have you played mw3 and how would you compare the sound on that to cod4?


----------



## sabzingeur

What about in-ear headphones, are they any good for gaming? What's the difference between full sized headphones and in-ear headphones for gaming?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

I've tried some soundmagic E10's with my x41's. I really wouldn't recommend it for gaming, Sound is very harsh but if you don't turn the volume up you wont be able to hear anything. I'd stick to full size cans if I were you, although Mad lust did mention the koss kcs75's, which I should be getting in a few days so I'll test them out.


----------



## Rickstahful

sabzingeur said:


> What about in-ear headphones, are they any good for gaming? What's the difference between full sized headphones and in-ear headphones for gaming?


 


  Typically IEMS lack in soundstage and positional audio compared to open cans and proper gaming headphones. That said, there are a few designs from companies such as Razer (not saying I'd recommend it) which are advertised as mobile headsets. I wouldn't really bite on them, and you don't really feel like a big deal when you have them on, if that's what floats your boat.


----------



## Eric_C

I've tried good in-ears with the MixAmp--still doesn't compare to good headphones and MixAmp. If you want to game, you want headphones.
   
  Impedance is something to keep in mind, but you should not look for headphone by _starting_ with impedance. Just look for good gaming headphones first, and then look for the ones that work best with/without an amp.


----------



## Miniscream

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only others is like the AX720, but it essentially the same as the Mixamp. I don't understand the need to hear yourself. Talk normally, the others will hear you just fine...oh wait you're using the god awful Zalman that you pretty much DO need to scream into. Get the dealextreme clip on. Just like the Zalman... except it works... and costs less than $5.


 


 I can come up with two very good reasons you need to hear youself talk. 1. Do you hear any deaf people talking like a person without any disabilities? Rarely. You need to hear yourself talk to learn how to talk, and 2. You need to hear yourself talk to speak correctly all the time.
   
  Examples of my problem with the A40s and the MixAmp 5.8
  1. It's like standing at the side of a parade and trying to talk to someone by you while there's a fire truck blowing its horn right in front of you.
  2. Wear open headphones, play them really loud with either explosions and guns firing, or music and try talking normally to your friends that you can hear through the speakers. Maybe you can do it, but that is a gift I do not have.
   
  Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Im using the LCD-2's with mix amp.  Works well...


----------



## sabzingeur

I can only get these Beyer headphones where I'm living, which ones do you suggest for fun/competitive gaming?
   
http://tainghe.com.vn/category-104-b0-beyerdynamic.html


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Im using the LCD-2's with mix amp.  Works well...


 


  I have not done that test yet...
   
  Want to extend on how LCD-2 works with mixamp for gaming?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I'm using it with a 1/8 converter plug. I'm still doing burn in but it sounds very good straight from the mix amp.  Of course I'm not going to use it like that always.  I'm waiting on my amps to come in and than I will hook my amps up through optic in my tv.  
  As sound goes I think its still too early to say because I've only have had the LCD-2 for the past 2 days.  But right out of the box all I can say they sound fantastic through the mix amp.  Sound stage is good enough for me at the moment.  Everything is very clear.  So far.  AFter burn it should get only better.  
  
  Quote: 





obazavil said:


> I have not done that test yet...
> 
> Want to extend on how LCD-2 works with mixamp for gaming?


----------



## Outcast

Ok do I have spent the better part of the last 3 days reading everything about headphone/set. At this moment I'm leaning towards the k701/2 with a mixamp, undecided on wireless/wired, and the e5 amp. As far as mic not quite sure yet haven't found anything that is helpful in that area. 

I mainly play mw3 on Xbox but almost anything else I play on pc when applicable. Now the question I have is should I be considering the Pc360's? Overall want the best sound quality and don't see the k701 set up too inconvenient to avoid it in favor of a headset. That said if the difference in sound quality is minuscule then there is no reason not to get the pc360's.


----------



## Miniscream

Quote: 





outcast said:


> Ok do I have spent the better part of the last 3 days reading everything about headphone/set. At this moment I'm leaning towards the k701/2 with a mixamp, undecided on wireless/wired, and the *e5 amp*. As far as* mic *not quite sure yet haven't found anything that is helpful in that area.
> I mainly play mw3 on *Xbox*


 


  
  What? I was told really only the AX720 amp and  MixAmp were the only amps that allowed to you have quality sound and be able to use a mic on XBOX.


----------



## Outcast

Only getting the e5 if I get the k701/2 because some people have mentioned that if you mix voice and game chat the mixamp can't really push the drivers in those particular headphones. If I were to get the pc360 I would have no need for the e5.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





miniscream said:


> What? I was told really only the AX720 amp and  MixAmp were the only amps that allowed to you have quality sound and be able to use a mic on XBOX.


 

 You can always put a stronger amp after the mixamp.
  
  Quote: 





outcast said:


> Only getting the e5 if I get the k701/2 because some people have mentioned that if you mix voice and game chat the mixamp can't really push the drivers in those particular headphones. If I were to get the pc360 I would have no need for the e5.


 

 But the E5 isn't going to be strong enough for the 701.


----------



## Miniscream

Oh so you plan on to double amp? Or just not voice chat on the XBOX?
   
  EDIT: Didn't see the last post so I guess I'm editing this. Since I clearly am bent on being able to have voice monitoring, are there any amps I can double up with or a single one I can get for quality sound and to hear myself with the D7000 and the DealExtreme clip on mic? I still have a $400 budget, and found out I can go up to 600 now with my refund on all my Astro products (of course, saving some).


----------



## Outcast

miniscream said:


> But the E5 isn't going to be strong enough for the 701.





Hmm I was under the impression that it would be but in any event this is exactly why I decided to post here. Which amp would you suggest using?


[/quote]





miniscream said:


> Oh so you plan on to double amp? Or just not voice chat on the XBOX?
> 
> EDIT: Didn't see the last post so I guess I'm editing this. Since I clearly am bent on being able to have voice monitoring, are there any amps I can double up with or a single one I can get for quality sound and to hear myself with the D7000 and the DealExtreme clip on mic?




Would double amp to have voice chat.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





outcast said:


> Hmm I was under the impression that it would be but in any event this is exactly why I decided to post here. Which amp would you suggest using?


 

 Probably the Objective2 if you're going to use it for music and/or other headphones as well and the E9 if you're on more of a budget.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





outcast said:


> Ok do I have spent the better part of the last 3 days reading everything about headphone/set. At this moment I'm leaning towards the k701/2 with a mixamp, undecided on wireless/wired, and the e5 amp.





> Overall want the best sound quality and don't see the k701 set up too inconvenient to avoid it in favor of a headset. That said if the difference in sound quality is minuscule then there is no reason not to get the pc360's.


 

 For multiplayer, K702 sounds SuperB. I used it without an amp from wired mixamp.
   
  If you will listen to music too, I think K702 is better than PC360. However, if you are only going to play, I'm sure MLE will favour PC360.
   
  I doubt E5 will make a difference with K702


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For competitive gaming, The K701/K702 is god mode, even moreso than the PC360. If I didn't use a mic, the K701 would be my top choice, followed by the HD598, and then AD700. The AD700 is super beastly, but the other two are more enjoyable as a whole.

The E5 is pathetically weak for amping if you want voice chat. Nothing less than the E11 will suffice.

You do not need an amp for the D7000 with or without voice chat. Its super sensitive, and the Mixamp alone will make it loud even with voice mixed in.

So I gave in and ordered the Rechargeable battery pack and ps3 chat cable for my Mixamp. UGH... $20 shipping. Last thing I'll buy from astro... ever...at least unless they make a newer, more convenient mixamp. I'm so weak. :mad:


----------



## Outcast

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For competitive gaming, The K701/K702 is god mode, even moreso than the PC360. If I didn't use a mic, the K701 would be my top choice, followed by the HD598, and then AD700. The AD700 is super beastly, but the other two are more enjoyable as a whole.
> The E5 is pathetically weak for amping if you want voice chat. Nothing less than the E11 will suffice.
> You do not need an amp for the D7000 with or without voice chat. Its super sensitive, and the Mixamp alone will make it loud even with voice mixed in.
> So I gave in and ordered the Rechargeable battery pack and ps3 chat cable for my Mixamp. UGH... $20 shipping. Last thing I'll buy from astro... ever...at least unless they make a newer, more convenient mixamp. I'm so weak.


 
   
  Why not use a stand alone mic with the k701/2? Personal preference or any reason in particular? reason i ask is because i also use voice chat 90% of the time when im on xbox live so still being able to do that is required, but as i stated earlier would rather have better audio and deal with a stand alone mic


----------



## nfnity

Hi all,
  My first post, but I've read quite a bit recently.
  I wrote Mad Lust Envy a PM, but I figured someone else might benefit from the answers to my questions.
  I just got the wireless mmixamp 5.8, and the hiss is quite audible for me. I wonder if it is because of the integrated amp (probably the same one as in the wired pro model) or because of the wireless transmission. The transmission should be digital, so that seems rather unlikely as well. I think they just called it 'secure' on the asto HP. I've just tested it directly with my akg k 540 and senns HD 485, but I plan on using it with the o2 amp and Q701phones. I rather like the wireless freedom (with low impedance phones), but the hiss kinda bothers me, as I'd like to use it for movies as well. It's at the same level up to about 12 o'clock and gets noticeably louder from there.

 1) Anyways, is the hiss in the 5.8 louder, than in the wired pro model?

 2) Would you recommed exchanging it for the pro? I don't care about the extra connectivity on the pro and there's no price difference for me (the cheaper pro would cost the same, if I factor in shipping costs for the exchange).

 3) Is the integrated DAC any good? Would be practical to use it for music (via optical out from the PC), as it's probably better than the typical onboard sound card.

 4) Does a headphone amp affect the hiss in any way? (good or bad)

 The Turtle Beach DSS is supposed to have an even louder hiss than the mixamps. I tried the headphone out on the XP500 base station, and the hiss on the mixamp was louder.

 5) Did someone already test the new DSS2?  Is it comparable to the DSS in terms of hiss? Altering the surround angles would be neat, I guess.
   
  thx for all your input.


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For competitive gaming, The K701/K702 is god mode, even moreso than the PC360. If I didn't use a mic, the K701 would be my top choice, followed by the HD598, and then AD700. The AD700 is super beastly, but the other two are more enjoyable as a whole.
> The E5 is pathetically weak for amping if you want voice chat. Nothing less than the E11 will suffice.
> You do not need an amp for the D7000 with or without voice chat. Its super sensitive, and the Mixamp alone will make it loud even with voice mixed in.
> So I gave in and ordered the Rechargeable battery pack and ps3 chat cable for my Mixamp. UGH... $20 shipping. Last thing I'll buy from astro... ever...at least unless they make a newer, more convenient mixamp. I'm so weak.


 


  dont get the battery pack, get some eneloops (or other LSD battery). much better performance and lower cost too


----------



## Hailin

I am looking to step up from my Lux HD668B. I really wanted a pair of D2000 but not for 500 in Canada no way.
  I can snag a pair of DT990 pro 250ohm for 180. I am really looking for an upgrade to my Lux's. I also thought of the 598 but I don't know if I would enjoy the warmer Senn sound. My ears are pretty damn sensitive I usually have my mixamp at 12 oclock with mic mix almost all the way to the right. If I turn off the mic I have to almost turn the damn sound down to 9 to 10 o'clock which is where the mixamp can't balance properly and leads to a lot of crackling.
  Those that don't know the HD668's are a bit warmer then most Luxs but still super bright. I love clarity above all else. Bass is nice and all but not at the cost of the other frequencies.
  I am going to scroll back a few pages and reread what MLE wrote on the DT990 250's but i am wondering if I should jump on this price of 180 or buy a set of velours (AKG 240 pads) for my lux's and call it done.


----------



## sabzingeur

Mad Lust, what version of DT990 did you use (how many ohms) any does it has "Pro" attached to it? What was the setup? You rated it as 9 for fun and 8 for competitive so I'm really interested. I'm thinking of getting a Xonar DX sound card (which has Dolby Headphones) ---> E9 --> DT990 Pro (250 ohms).
   
  I did some searching and it seems the non pro version seems really hard to find. Every DT990 I looked at either had Pro or Premium attached to it.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> Mad Lust, what version of DT990 did you use (how many ohms) any does it has "Pro" attached to it? What was the setup? You rated it as 9 for fun and 8 for competitive so I'm really interested. I'm thinking of getting a Xonar DX sound card (which has Dolby Headphones) ---> E9 --> DT990 Pro (250 ohms).
> 
> I did some searching and it seems the non pro version seems really hard to find.


 


  He's using the 600 ohm version (see his signature, "DT 990/600" indicates "[model]/[impedance]")
   
  The "non-Pro" version is marketed as "Premium".


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


outcast said:


> Only getting the e5 if I get the k701/2 because some people have mentioned that if you mix voice and game chat the mixamp can't really push the drivers in those particular headphones. If I were to get the pc360 I would have no need for the e5.


 
   

 If your strictly playing MW3, I would just get the PC360s and be done.  There's a refurb set on Amazon (authorized dealer/warranty) for $150.  If your going to use them for single player and music....then maybe get the AKGs....


----------



## Outcast

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> If your strictly playing MW3, I would just get the PC360s and be done.  There's a refurb set on Amazon (authorized dealer/warranty) for $150.  If your going to use them for single player and music....then maybe get the AKGs....


 


  They will end up being my everyday headphones, don't listen to much music but i do play a lot of other games on the pc, xbox, and ps3. All in all at the moment not sure if the 701's are 100 dollars better than the pc360's which is the price difference in the setups I'm looking at right now.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





outcast said:


> They will end up being my everyday headphones, don't listen to much music but i do play a lot of other games on the pc, xbox, and ps3. All in all at the moment not sure if the 701's are 100 dollars better than the pc360's which is the price difference in the setups I'm looking at right now.


 

 Just based on what I've read, the PC360 looks like a more practical option here. Built-in mic, not picky about amping.


----------



## Outcast

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Just based on what I've read, the PC360 looks like a more practical option here. Built-in mic, not picky about amping.


 


  Yeah I have seen that also but as i said earlier I am not terribly worried about dealing with the extra mic and amp.  Just want something that will be the best quality i can afford at the moment and this is what it has boiled down to.


----------



## Eric_C

Yeah, but isn't your proposed setup Fiio E5 to power the AKG K701? Most of the members agree that's not ideal.


----------



## Outcast

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Yeah, but isn't your proposed setup Fiio E5 to power the AKG K701? Most of the members agree that's not ideal.


 

 Actually took MLE's advice and added in the price of the E11 amp after his post. Right now here are the setup's.
   
  k701/2
  Mixamp pro
  labteclva7330
  e11
  pc/ps3 cord
   
  or
   
  pc360
  mixamp 5.8
  rechargeable battery
  pc/ps3 cord


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





outcast said:


> Actually took MLE's advice and added in the price of the E11 amp after his post. Right now here are the setup's.
> 
> k701/2
> Mixamp pro
> ...


 
   
  Erm, if you want sound quality why are you considering the wireless MixAmp? There's a chance that it will hiss. 
  Wired MixAmp costs about the same, has the same sound quality, and more connections. Could be useful considering you want to game on both PC and PS3.
  (I'm currently seeing if this is the case myself, as I have an old, pre-2010 wired MixAmp sitting between my PC and Xbox)


----------



## Outcast

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Erm, if you want sound quality why are you considering the wireless MixAmp? There's a chance that it will hiss.
> Wired MixAmp costs about the same, has the same sound quality, and more connections. Could be useful considering you want to game on both PC and PS3.
> (I'm currently seeing if this is the case myself, as I have an old, pre-2010 wired MixAmp sitting between my PC and Xbox)


 


  Honestly because when I am trying to work out a budget i always factor in extra cost so in this case the extra cost is the wireless with accessories for the pc360, and the extra cost for the k701 is "100 dollars".  There is a good chance if i went with the pc360 i would get the wired just because i live in a small apartment coupled with the fact my pc and xbox are on the same monitor on my desk.  It comes down to which is better sound wise because that is my main concern everything else is secondary, and from what i am seeing the k701's are better sound wise for all around use.


----------



## Eric_C

Sounds like wired is the way to go, regardless of which headphone you choose in the end.


----------



## Jae304

I agree it sounds like wired is the way to go, especially if you're sitting at your desk with both the xbox and pc within reach.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> He's using the 600 ohm version (see his signature, "DT 990/600" indicates "[model]/[impedance]")
> 
> The "non-Pro" version is marketed as "Premium".


 


  Is there a significant sonic difference between the non-Pro and Pro version? (Where I am living there's a shop that offers a DT990 Pro 250ohms).


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> Is there a significant sonic difference between the non-Pro and Pro version? (Where I am living there's a shop that offers a DT990 Pro 250ohms).


 


  For gaming? I don't know. Maybe MLE will chime in.
  In general? http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard the Premium 250ohm. The 600ohm and the Pro 250ohm DT990s sound a bit different due to the bass being considerably more pronounced on the Pro version. If you want balance, the Pro DT990 isn't it. Its fun, and doesn't hide details like typical bass cans, but its still quite tipped towards a lot of bass.



weez82 said:


> dont get the battery pack, get some eneloops (or other LSD battery). much better performance and lower cost too




This is exactly why I needed the rechargeable battery pack. I have Eneloops, and they are a hassle to charge, since they won't charge through the Mixamp's USB. The Mixamp eats through the Eneloops, and I have to constantly take them out and charge them when I'm not playing. With the battery pack, I can leave it in the Mixamp.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> For gaming? I don't know. Maybe MLE will chime in.
> In general? http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more


 
   
  Why did Zombie_X say the DT 990s has no mids. That's some bad news!


----------



## FarKim

Hi,
   
  Quick question.
  Does anyone here have or have heard the Turtle Beach PX5's?
   
  And if yes,
  Which set mentioned in MLE's first post would they most closely relate to?
   
  I have PX5's currently but am looking for something better.
  Unfortunately due to my situation I think I'm going to need Closed because sound leakage may be an issue, but I'm undecided on that at present.
   
  Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Has anybody else played with dolby virtual surround and the Sennheiser HD558/598 or the beyer DT770/80. I'm juggling between these three at the moment trying to find a decent price. Anything else people would recommend (please don't recommend AD700's or AKG's)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sabzingeur said:


> Why did Zombie_X say the DT 990s has no mids. That's some bad news!




Sigh, yes, the DT990 has NO mids...right. Please stop with the hyperbole. The DT990's mids is as detailed as the DT880's, just that the bass and treble are more prominent. The DT990 is one of the few bass and treble headphones that retain a lot of detail in the mids.

Here in head-fi, it's as if the mids aren't forward, they are non-existent. :rolleyes:

Zombie_X himself as said that the mids on the DT990 are very detailed. I dunno why people have to exaggerate everything.







> Has anybody else played with dolby virtual surround and the Sennheiser HD558/598 or the beyer DT770/80. I'm juggling between these three at the moment trying to find a decent price. Anything else people would recommend (please don't recommend AD700's or AKG's)




Other than myself? Because these two both work extremely well with Dolby Headphone, though they both are quite different in that the HD598 is very well balanced, while the DT770/80 is very fun, with a lot of bass and treble, but can be quite veiled for hardcore gaming.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Other than myself? Because these two both work extremely well with Dolby Headphone, though they both are quite different in that the HD598 is very well balanced, while the DT770/80 is very fun, with a lot of bass and treble, but can be quite veiled for hardcore gaming.


 


  I've asked a few questions directed at you but I never got a reply 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I asked whether you used sitrep pro in mw2, and if you had played MW3 and how it sounded to you.
   
  My last question was a general one. I'm sure at least a few people have bought one of the headphones you listed to use with dolby following your advice so was just wondering how they got on and If anybody else has tried anything different (in particular the 558's). The DT770's bass is slightly concerning otherwise I would've snapped it up. My x41's have a bass boost button but I tried it yesterday and it completely overpowers the other sounds like footsteps. If the 770's are on the same level it'll be unusable but I'm researching whether I can tone it somehow (a DAC with eq settings?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rayleighsilvers said:


> I've asked a few questions directed at you but I never got a reply
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry, I get lost with the flood of messages I get, I can't always keep up.

When I played MW2, I was always a Scavenger Pro/Cold-Blooded pro, Sleight of Hand Pro, Ninja Pro type of guy. I did get Sitrep pro eventually, but the benefits of Ninja Pro far outweighted being able to hear others louder. I was already able to hear pretty much everyone without Sitrep Pro. MW2's footsteps and directional audio made the game a breeze in terms of soundwhoring.

I didn't play MW3 much (hate it).

Though I'm still playing Black Ops. Ninja Pro has the make footsteps louder like MW2's Sitrep Pro. It's still like god mode for me. I'm currently sitting on over 3.00 k/d overall, and 4.00 k/d just this month. Definitely gotta say that soundwhoring makes my skills as good as they are.

I certainly wouldn't use the DT770 Pro 80 for CoD. The bass is awesome, but just not good for that game. The DT990 Pro 250 is a better option in terms of having lots of bass and clarity without the need of TOO much amping, and it's really as good as the DT770 pro 80 in terms of synergy with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

No problems, I do realise it's quite a long thread (200pages!) and your not going to read every post.
  Have you had a chance to try the DT990 pro's? Your original post only mentioned the premiums.
  I've read zombie_X's review on all the beyer's range which has really put me off Beyer's. I think I'll scratch them off of my list. I have no doubt any decent headphone will be better than my x41's, but I want to make the right purchase the first time  Sennheiser it probably is.
   
  On the topic of Cod, what didn't you like about MW3? It's practically the same as mw2, which I thought was great since I absolutely loved MW2 (although I hated it the first 3 months). The spawns can be frustrating (to the point where you want to throw the controller at the screen), but apart from that the game is pretty enjoyable. Modified killstreaks are a very nice addition.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, I had the DT990 Pro recently, in which I compared directly with the DT990/600.

They're real solid, but the mid bass was giving me headaches. It sounds very similar to the premiums, aside from the bass being a bit too strong for my personal taste.

I hate MW3 because the maps are a mess of clustered garbage. They are also too big for the type of gameplay CoD is good for. I miss the more intimate maps of the first MW. They think bigger is better, yet they fail to see that the smallest maps are ALWAYS the favorites by a mile. Rust in MW2, Nuketown in BLOPS, Dome in MW3. They aren't paying attention to what people are voting for. Big maps belong in other games like BF, not CoD.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

I tend to lean towards the small-medium to medium sized maps such Vacant, Strike and Terminal, but there are different modes in cod and different styles of play have to be catered for, otherwise it would be completely run and gun with people spawning in your face, which is kinda overkill (although the spawning as I mentioned is ridiculous at the moment e.g some guy you just killed will be round the corner)
   
  Can I ask why you sold your 598's? You said they were "phenomenal".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sold it because the PC360 was more practical (included mic). This time around, I opted for the convenience over the sheer SQ, which the PC360 is no slouch in itself. For the purpose of gaming, I don't need higher SQ than the PC360, and since the HD598 doesn't have the sound signature I'd like for non-gaming purposes, it made more sense to just keep the PC360 over the HD598.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sold it because the PC360 was more practical (included mic). This time around, I opted for the convenience over the sheer SQ, which the PC360 is no slouch in itself. For the purpose of gaming, I don't need higher SQ than the PC360, and since the HD598 doesn't have the sound signature I'd like for non-gaming purposes, it made more sense to just keep the PC360 over the HD598.


 

 I just checked your profile. A lot of your interests overlap with mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The headphones I'm looking for need to work well with gaming but also East Asian music (j-pop/rock, k-pop), plus I'd want to use them for internet streaming (e.g Naruto, bleach). Did you try the Senn's for anything like that? Sorry for all the Questions. Since I've never had access to high end audio I've never known the difference to standard speakers and am completely reliant on opinions on this forum. Hope you don't mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 will be great for gaming, anime (rich midrange = great for vocals). I'm not a fan of neutral-ish headphones for music, but I'm sure you'll like them. They aren't terribly exciting, but they are very high quality.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD598 will be great for gaming, anime (rich midrange = great for vocals). I'm not a fan of neutral-ish headphones for music, but I'm sure you'll like them. They aren't terribly exciting, but they are very high quality.


 


  What about the DT990's? Do you use them for J-pop? Do they bring it to life? It's not just clear vocals I'm after. It's also good driving of the background music during fight scenes that can either give you goosebumps with a good set of cans, or spoil the whole climax.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't listen to J-pop like I used to. The DT990 is my all purpose can, so I personally love them for anything I throw at them. They won't beat the HD598 for vocals, but if you're like me that wants to FEEL the music that makes you wanna get up and dance, instead of sitting there listening to the vocals, then the DT990 would be great for you (Longest. Sentence. EVAR..) I'm a bass and treble fan, as long as mids aren't lost. Contrary to the hyperbole spewed about the midrange on the DT990s, they are very detailed, just not the star of the show.

I really, REALLY want the Denon D7000 again though. THOSE are my music cans of choice. God, I miss them.


----------



## staxxx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I really, REALLY want the Denon D7000 again though. THOSE are my music cans of choice. God, I miss them.


 


  Oh yes, great all rounders. It's the one headphone that can do everything well, but not at the best at each individual criteria.


----------



## Evarin

Someone needs to come up with a mod that makes those things isolate like champs. I would definitely consider a modded pair if I could use them in a library without worries. Would likely change the sound signature, though. Speaking of which, anyone here try an open mod for those things? Might as well, right?


----------



## staxxx

I'm afraid to mod my headphones, except for an old HD555 which I bought used.

 I've seen people categorize the D7000 as semi open. I think if you close it further (from the pads?). It would sound like a congested studio monitor, it needs that sound leakage for it to sound "good".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They don't isolate well, but I don't think sound leak is anything close to 'semi-open'. They're just bad at keeping sounds out, like open headphones.

I wouldn't mod the D7000. I love their sound in stock form. I wouldn't change anything about them other than personal comfort issues with pleather/leather, and their incredibly loose fit. 

The D7000 is good enough to be the only headphone outside of a headset I'd have. The only thing I'd want from a headphone sound-wise is for an open headphone that sounds exactly like the D7000... a man can dream.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





evarin said:


> Someone needs to come up with a mod that makes those things isolate like champs. I would definitely consider a modded pair if I could use them in a library without worries. Would likely change the sound signature, though. Speaking of which, anyone here try an open mod for those things? Might as well, right?


 

 The Denon Dx000s are vented between the baffle and the cup and I think that's where most of the leakage comes from.  If you sealed the vent it would probably kill all the bass.  You'd also need to damp the cups and use some different pads as well if you wanted decent isolation.
   
  Someone tried an open mod on the D2000 on here.  You could search for that.


----------



## staxxx

I didn't even know it's vented.

 I assume it needs the vent for the drivers to move properly, right?

 Mine leaks from the pads. I guess they're really semi-open, then. I do know that if I press the pads against my ears, the sounds get congested and you get more bass (reverb?).


----------



## sabzingeur

Is the Koss Porta Pro a good choice for gaming? I heard it has good bass.


----------



## jghost23

It seems my budget has extended some. I was wondering if there are any cans that provide the same convinence as the PC 360s but with better SQ? I came across the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 PC Gaming Premium Digital Headset. How do these compare to the PC 360 in SQ? Do they pare well with the mixamp?
   
It also seems the past couple pages people are saying the wireless mixamp comes with a hiss. I asked MLE about 10 pages back if there was any major difference between wireless and wired mixamp. I play in my living room so the wireless is more practical. Still, I do not want to spend $130 on a mixamp and end up with a noticeable hissing sound. I'm not an audiophile, but my ears are very sensitive to sound. I can pick out small details that will drive me nuts.
   
  If the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 PC Gaming Premium Digital Headset much better than the pc 360s, MLE, would you still recommend the DT 990s for immersion? If so which model/ohms? Thanks for future thoughts.


----------



## Phos

The MMX 300 are 250 Ohm so I dunno if the mixamp can handle it.


----------



## jghost23

Well, then I can always double amp no?
  Quote: 





phos said:


> The MMX 300 are 250 Ohm so I dunno if the mixamp can handle it.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





phos said:


> The MMX 300 are 250 Ohm so I dunno if the mixamp can handle it.


 


  really?  that surprises me cause the mixamp has no trouble at all handling them.  maybe there are different versions?


----------



## jghost23

Do you own a pair Jae304? If so, how are they? Are you able to compare them to the PC 360s?
  
  Quote: 





jae304 said:


> really?  that surprises me cause the mixamp has no trouble at all handling them.  maybe there are different versions?


----------



## Eric_C

Based on impedance alone, there's no sure evidence the MixAmp can't handle the MMX. My DT 880 are 250 ohms and the MixAmp can drive them--the knob is pretty "high" (estimated 70-80% max volume) but it is possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amazon through Electronics Expo is selling the New in open box Denon D7000s for $585 again. I had to jump at it. Order has been placed. 

FWIR, Electronics Expo states 'new in open box', because (APPARENTLY) they open the box just to sell the D7000 at lower price. Time will tell. My original D7000 was from them, and I had no issues.



As for the MMX300...

The MMX300 won't have a problem with the Mixamp, based off friends on AVSForum who own them.

The MMX300 will have a funner sound than the PC360, but won't reach the soundstage and overall balance of the PC360. As a whole, I do believe the MMX300 will have a higher quality sound, but won't be as competitive friendly as the PC360. The problem with the MMX300 is like the DT770... some are bass heavy, some are bass light, even the same model... so you don't know which one you're going to get. Going off recent memory, the newer DT770/32ohms are quite bass light, so expect the MMX300 to be the same. Should work well for competitive gaming.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Amazon through Electronics Expo is selling the New in open box Denon D7000s for $585 again. I had to jump at it. Order has been placed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I see you've swiftly added it to your list as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell yeah, those are my babies. I MIGHT...MIGHT return the DT990, that way I can order the C-2.2 amp, asap. I don't want to, but daddy needs some cash money!


----------



## joelpearce

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Well, then I can always double amp no?


 

 I'm not totally sure what you mean by double amp, but I think the answer is no.  You don't want to feed an amplified output into a input designed for a line signal.  If you do that, it no longer really matters what headphones you're using as far as sound quality is concerned.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jghost23 said:


> It seems my budget has extended some. I was wondering if there are any cans that provide the same convinence as the PC 360s but with better SQ? I came across the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 PC Gaming Premium Digital Headset. How do these compare to the PC 360 in SQ? Do they pare well with the mixamp?
> 
> It also seems the past couple pages people are saying the wireless mixamp comes with a hiss. I asked MLE about 10 pages back if there was any major difference between wireless and wired mixamp. I play in my living room so the wireless is more practical. Still, I do not want to spend $130 on a mixamp and end up with a noticeable hissing sound. I'm not an audiophile, but my ears are very sensitive to sound. I can pick out small details that will drive me nuts.
> 
> If the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 PC Gaming Premium Digital Headset much better than the pc 360s, MLE, would you still recommend the DT 990s for immersion? If so which model/ohms? Thanks for future thoughts.




FWIR, the PC360 and MMX300 are on par with each other, One is open, the other isn't, so they will give you a very different sound. One thing to consider is that if you're gonna be using a mic to talk, I will assume that sound leaking isn't gonna be an issue, as your voice will undoubtedly be louder than whatever sound is leaking from the headphones. I'd get the PC360. The only Premium DT770 I owned was the 600ohm, and it was a rare super bassy one, which I highly doubt the MMX300 will sound anything like. I just know I always prefer the more open soundstage of open cans vs closed. Hell, even the D7000 can't compare to the DT990 in how impressive soundstage can be for games.

If you like some bass, the DT990 Pro would be the can to get for immersion. Assuming you're not gonna use a mic with them, the Mixamp would be enough for the purpose of gaming. The DT990/600 is better, but an external amp after the Mixamp is a definite necessity.


----------



## nfnity

@ Mad Lust Envy
  As the thread is growing rather quickly, you probably missed my post.
  Quote: 





nfnity said:


> Hi all,
> My first post, but I've read quite a bit recently.
> I wrote Mad Lust Envy a PM, but I figured someone else might benefit from the answers to my questions.
> I just got the wireless mmixamp 5.8, and the hiss is quite audible for me. I wonder if it is because of the integrated amp (probably the same one as in the wired pro model) or because of the wireless transmission. The transmission should be digital, so that seems rather unlikely as well. I think they just called it 'secure' on the asto HP. I've just tested it directly with my akg k 540 and senns HD 485, but I plan on using it with the o2 amp and Q701phones. I rather like the wireless freedom (with low impedance phones), but the hiss kinda bothers me, as I'd like to use it for movies as well. It's at the same level up to about 12 o'clock and gets noticeably louder from there.
> ...


 

 I'd also like to contribute with my experiences with the zalman clip-on mic: It's better than headphones without any mic, but that's about it. oyu can record voice messages alright, but especially with closed cans it's rather inconvenient.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wireless hiss is louder than the wired, which is pretty silent in comparison.

As for attaching an external amp, the hiss didn't seem to be affected or amplified. I assume that as long as the extrenal amp is quite itself, you will only hear the hiss from the Mixamp itself. i tried it two ways:

Maxing out the wireless master volume, and controlling the volume with the external amp.

Leaving the Mixamp at a lower volume for less hiss, and raising the volume on the external amp.

The hiss was the same either way, so I'd still recommend maxing out the Mixamp for the most dynamic range.




Also, if you're using insensitive headphones like say the DT990/600ohm, the hiss is almost non-existent, even amplified.

The hiss doesn't bother me enough to replace the wireless for the Pro.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Maxing out the wireless master volume, and controlling the volume with the external amp.
> 
> Leaving the Mixamp at a lower volume for less hiss, and raising the volume on the external amp.
> 
> The hiss was the same either way, so I'd still recommend* maxing out the Mixamp for the most dynamic range.*


 
   
  What is your volume set to on your external amp (E9?) when you max out the mixamp?  Seems like it would be pretty low.  As I'm sure you know, potentiometers don't like to be near the extremes of their range (channel imbalance and what not).  The mixamp should have more distortion at it's extreme loud range too, so the external amp is just amplifying that distortion, right?
   
  It seems like the best volume to set the mixamp would be the equivalent of a line-out level signal.  So, say if your external amp gets loud at 11 o'clock when used with a DAC (sending a line out signal), you should set mixamp to a volume level that also makes the external amp get loud at 11 o'clock, making the mixamp create a similar signal level to the line-out signal from the DAC.
   
  The E9 is supposed to clip with signals above 2.1 vrms anyway, which I would definitely think a maxed out mixamp would be....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I personally thought line level was close to max volume anyway (I'm sure it's about 80% of the max volume, as that puts the E9's volume near 11, where I have it for the E7/E9 for the PC.)

I honestly haven't been using the Mixamp + E9 lately, outside of a few tests with the DT990 pro and DT990/600. My computer setup is in another room from my gaming setup, so it's a hassle to disconnect the E9 and take it to the room on a normal basis. The E9 will be permanently moved to the room once I get the C-2.2 amp for my main computer setup.

So I guess for those double amping, I recommend having the Mixamp master volume at around 80%.


----------



## nfnity

I guess, I'll keep the wireless mixamp, as it's really quite a standout feature. The hiss is almost not audible with unamped k601s or k701s. It's problematic with very sensitive phones, as the hiss stays the same level below 12 o'clock. Using the mixamp at the 10 or 11 o'clock position with sensitive phones yields the worst results. The mixer has no evident influence on this. Seems logical, as the amp is probably at fault here. Maybe upgradeable?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Just received my ksc75 today 
   
  Tried it for a few hours. The left one doesn't fit properly, quite annoying to put on and hurts my ears. Sound's good so far though. Need to spend more time to work out whether it's better than the x41's, but initial impressions are it actually works for gaming!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It takes getting used to, but once you learn how to put it on properly, it slips right on and then doesn't feel like anything is there.


----------



## sabzingeur

Guys, what about these? Someone told they are identical to DT770s, with a mic attached.
   
  http://www.corporate.qpad.se/modules/news/article.php?storyid=218
   
  Quote: 





> *The QH-1339 headset was created jointly with beyerdynamic. The closed construction absorbs external sounds by approximately 18 decibels (dBA), which makes the immaculate reproduction of sound possible even in loud environments and turbulent LAN parties; you can now hear even the smallest details in the game that you have never been able to hear before.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have no doubt those are probably just rebadged MMX300s. They color scheme looks pretty sweet though.


----------



## Evarin

Glad you picked up another D7000, MLE. I got my Brainwavz HM5 in two days ago and am loving it. I have yet to game with it, but will likely get some time in this weekend. It sounds like the FA-011 would be perfect for gaming, as fellow head-fier LFF said in his review of the product. My FA-003 varient is said to be more neutral, but as it is closed it will suffer from soundstage issues. I'm tempted to get the FA-011's just to wear around the house when listening to music, but I just don't do enough of that to justify spending $120.
   
  They ARE pretty, though:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the FA-011 was one of those headphones I was close to getting, but the nightmarish impressions on just getting the FA-011s to show up at your home, let alone properly made me avoid them. It seems to be just an issue with the FA-011s and none of the other Fischers.

I wanted the FA-003/HM5, but I knew it was going to be a cheap replacement for what I really wanted, the D7000s. No more beating around the bush, lol.

I still do want to hear those, but I know they wouldn't be getting any real use here.

Why do you have the FA-003 in your sig, when it's the HM5? XD

Please give us your impression on them for gaming with the Mixamp. I have no doubt they'll pair up well.


----------



## Evarin

Because i'm LAAAAZY and they're the same headphone. You're right, I do need to get around to changing it. What's funny is I have an actual FA-003 on the way. STUPID RUSSIA. Never, ever order anything from GD-audiobase. It is a complete nightmare dealing with them. Frogbeats is the way to go. I just hope their Fischer inventory expands soon.


----------



## Triggerfish

Still waiting for a MMX 300 to show up in the for sale forums, going to be running that with the bundled usb soundcard for a bit, then switching over to a Xonar STX when I build my new computer in the next couple of months.  I just haven't seen a MMX on there in a long time.
   
  I may have missed it in the thread somewhere, but does anyone have an opinion on the Shure 940 as far as gaming goes?  I have one coming in the mail at the moment, and I'll put my impressions as far as gaming goes here when I get it.  Mainly just planning on using it for music, but I figure I'll at least test it gaming wise.
   
  Oh, and for those interested in the FA-011, I have one up for sale in the forums.  It didn't have quite the sound I was looking for so moving on to something else (think I got spoiled by hearing the Grado PS500 over the holidays).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I THINK I read that the Shure 940 has a smallish soundstage, which wouldn't lend itself well for DH gaming. Harkens back to what I thought of the M50s. I absolutely love the M50s, but the small soundstage ruined them for Mixamp gaming.

I might be wrong though. They might be stellar.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> Guys, what about these? Someone told they are identical to DT770s, with a mic attached.
> http://www.corporate.qpad.se/modules/news/article.php?storyid=218


 
   
  My guess.
  Beyerdynamic DT770 Premium 32-Ohm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> My guess.
> Beyerdynamic DT770 Premium 32-Ohm.




Correct. the Beyerdynamic MMX300

 

Which is a DT770/32 with a mic. The QPad ones have the same exact specs, price, and everything in between. The only difference is the color scheme, and the ugly Qpad branding right on the cups. Branding aside, I prefer the looks on the Qpad version.

In any case, you could just get a DT770/32 and buy the antlion mod mic and save some cash.


----------



## obazavil

Congratulations on your D7000 MLE!
   
  I knew you will fall again into upgraditis


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But not as far as you! 

I might eventually go for the HE400 as the upgrade to my DT990, but only if the bass is comparable. Once I have the Audio GD amp and dac stuff, I'm pretty much done and you wont see me here for a while, like last time. 

But wait, they have pleather pads... ARGH. If people test them with Hifiman velours and they end up sounding the same, I may go that route.


----------



## jghost23

So is this hiss that apparent for the wireless mixamp? Would the PC 360 fall under insensitive cans that make the hiss non existent? I really hate subtle sounds that cause annoyances... but the mixamp pro would be so inconvenient for me. So as far as PC 360 vs MMX 300.. it seems the MMX 300 are more fun of cans? But then I see MLE you say they should be bass light? It seems a larger soundstage would be better for gaming so would that ultimately put me with the PC 360? So there are no other cans that can beat the PC 360?? With a proportional increase in price?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The wireless hiss is louder than the wired, which is pretty silent in comparison.
> As for attaching an external amp, the hiss didn't seem to be affected or amplified. I assume that as long as the extrenal amp is quite itself, you will only hear the hiss from the Mixamp itself. i tried it two ways:
> Maxing out the wireless master volume, and controlling the volume with the external amp.
> Leaving the Mixamp at a lower volume for less hiss, and raising the volume on the external amp.
> ...


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
   
  The MMX 300 is based on the 250 Ohm version.  And if you like the color scheme but not the branding, there's always Manufaktur.  Spend an extra 29 USD to have them lacquer them up.   You can specify to omit the little USB sound card which actually brings the price down to $ 319 if you leave it otherwise stock.  Kinda funny that they charge the same for leatherette and leather ear pads on this phone.
   
  Edit: Oh wait, it looks like Headroom's specs are wrong, the MMX 300 is 32 Ohm.


----------



## jghost23

Which would produce less hiss? Beyerdynamic MMX300 or PC 360? Or both produce barely any hiss when paired with the wireless mixamp?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





joelpearce said:


> I'm not totally sure what you mean by double amp, but I think the answer is no.  You don't want to feed an amplified output into a input designed for a line signal.  If you do that, it no longer really matters what headphones you're using as far as sound quality is concerned.


 

 You'd have to pair a few really bad amps with a pair of really good headphones before the distortion from the amps exceed the distortion from the headphones.  Amps have better performance into high impedance loads like a line in.  Cheap amps usually have _much _better performance in higher impedance loads since the exceeding cheap opamps many of them use aren't even designed to drive low impedance loads at low distortion.
   
  The most audible defect you'll likely get is a raised noise floor.


----------



## jghost23

Double amp? They have discussed this several times on the thread no? Mixamp> E9? for an example


----------



## maverickronin

Yes.  It has been mentioned before but someone said it was so bad it would negate difference between headphones so I though a rebuttal was required.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I'm ordering the C-2.2. and NFB 3.1. Now I'm broke. Lol.


----------



## jghost23

What are those? If you would not mind enlightening me.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I'm ordering the C-2.2. and NFB 3.1. Now I'm broke. Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Audio-GD C-2.2 - External amp. 
Audio-GD NFB 3.1 - External DAC




Think of them as a pretty big upgrade to the Fiio E7/E9. The C-2.2 is 2.5x as powerful as the E9 at 600ohms. C-2.2 is 200mw@600ohms, while the E9 is 80mw@600ohms. My DT990 will benefit...

They will cost me over $800 together, so yeah... it better be. 


http://www.audio-gd.com/PriceList.htm

I also bought the Earth op-Amps, as well as the ACSS cables. They won't work together, as the ACSS cables will bypass the op-amps, but for whenever I plug in other sources directly to the C-2.2 (like the Mixamp), I will benefit from the Earth op-amps which are neutral compared to the stock op-amps.


----------



## jghost23

what kind of headphones require that type of hardware to drive? Seems insane? lol. Could you answer my question about pc360 vs MMX 300 as far as hissing and stuff?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Most headphones benefit from a lot of power, even easy to drive ones. This should make my headphones soar, especially the DT990/600.

I haven't heard the MMX300, so I can't answer. I think they're probably a little less sensitive than the PC360, so they should be slightly (I stress that) quieter. When you're playing games, the hiss will be an absolute non-issue, as you'll be paying attention to everything else. It's not a big deal.


----------



## jghost23

Ok thanks, much appreciated. So it looks like I'll go with the PC 360s.. as no one has thought of any other headsets that cost proportionally as much more as the increase in quality. I saw some CES stuff for 2012 but didn't see any headsets coming out that are better. Shrugs.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Most headphones benefit from a lot of power, even easy to drive ones. This should make my headphones soar, especially the DT990/600.
> I haven't heard the MMX300, so I can't answer. I think they're probably a little less sensitive than the PC360, so they should be slightly (I stress that) quieter. When you're playing games, the hiss will be an absolute non-issue, as you'll be paying attention to everything else. It's not a big deal.


----------



## jghost23

If I were getting the DT 990 pro for immersion, which second amp should I get to help drive them? I'll end up using PC 360 for competitive gaming and the DT 990s for immersion/fun. PC 360 will just use mixamp of course.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote:


maverickronin said:


> You'd have to pair a few really bad amps with a pair of really good headphones before the distortion from the amps exceed the distortion from the headphones.  Amps have better performance into high impedance loads like a line in.  Cheap amps usually have _much _better performance in higher impedance loads since the exceeding cheap opamps many of them use aren't even designed to drive low impedance loads at low distortion.
> 
> The most audible defect you'll likely get is a raised noise floor.


 

  
   
  This is correct. The whole issue of double amping is blown way out of proportion. I've been double amping for 6+ months and have never had any problems.
   
  *That said, you obviously don't want to run the headphone jack on the Lyr into the inputs on something like the Mixamp. You'd fry that Mixamp pretty fast. Fortunately, the Mixamp doesn't provide much juice so it's okay to run it into the Lyr's input. I have my Mixamp at 100% volume feeding the Lyr with no ill effects.


----------



## jghost23

sounds like a dope setup. What set of cans do you use for competitive gaming? And for immersion (unless you use one set for both purposes)? Nvm, checked your sig. Too bad they are headphones and not a headset :/
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jghost23 said:


> If I were getting the DT 990 pro for immersion, which second amp should I get to help drive them? I'll end up using PC 360 for competitive gaming and the DT 990s for immersion/fun. PC 360 will just use mixamp of course.




You wouldn't really need a second amp if you're not going to use voice chat. The Mixamp fully powering game audio, will power the DT990 Pro. If you still feel you need power later on, the E9 has PLENTY of power for the DT990 Pros as they are only 250ohm.

I've ran the Mixamp to the Lyr myself. Problem with the Lyr is that it has an audible noise floor with sensitive headphones, and the tubes can hum. It's the only reason I didn't get the Lyr this time around. It was noisy with the D7000, though it was dead silent with the HE-4.


----------



## jghost23

Are the 600 OHMS DT 990s a ton better SQ wise than the DT 990 pros 250 OHMS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. They sound 95% the same, mid bass aside. If you can handle the bass, I wouldn't worry about the differences.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> sounds like a dope setup. What set of cans do you use for competitive gaming? And for immersion (unless you use one set for both purposes)? Nvm, checked your sig. Too bad they are headphones and not a headset :/


 


  It took me all of 30 minutes to bend a piece of metal that would fit around an earpad and attach a microphone to it. 30 minutes to make a HE-500 headset isn't too bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What mic you using? Pretty slick. Looks better than the antlion mod mic.


----------



## Rebel975

It's an Audio Technica pro 8hex*. It can't pick up anything when running straight out of the mixamp, so I had to throw a microphone preamp into the mix. The bonus is that I can now adjust the sensitivity of the mic on the fly.
   
  Someone talking trash on Xbox live? Turn the knob up so high that you can hear a mouse walking in the next room over. "MEGAPHONE MEGAPHONE NO YOU DON'T GET TO TALK!" hahaha.
   
   
  *I broke the headband off of it and bent that into the circle that fits around the earpad. It's way more legit than when I had my PRO 2900's, because I used heat shrink tubing this time instead of a roll of tape.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, awesome. So the Mixamp can't power the mic? Damn, must be a solid piece.


----------



## Rebel975

When I first got it I plugged it into the mixamp and was surprised to find that it wasn't working! That person on eBay had sold me a broken unit! Then I plugged it into my Xonar ST and it had some sensitivity, but not a lot. It was then I realized that I would need a preamp.
   
  I'm glad I paid for an expensive mic. I've had zero problems with it so far. The same can't be said about the other 50 mics I've had in the past few years.


----------



## jghost23

That looks extremely legit. Not sure I possess the talent you do to do a mod like that. Link to mic preamp? And those gained features are nice. That's what I saw lacking when people used tape or something to attach a boom mic. Stuff like mute and volume. Sounds like you have it all worked out. I'm guessing those beast of headphones (HE-5) require two amps to push.. a mixamp and a lyr you're using?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like he's using the HE500, not HE5. the HE500 isn't all too hard to drive in comparison to the older Hifimans.. I'm sure it's about as hard on the Mixamp as the K701. Loud enough without voice chat, but needs an extra amp when introducing a mic.


----------



## jghost23

MLE, I was wondering, if the MMX 300 are just DT 990s with a mic, then why would I get them over the 360s? Maybe I read wrong a few pages back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, MMX300 = DT770/32ohm with a mic.

And they offer very different sounds. One is open, one is closed. Depending on your needs, one may be better than the other depending on whom you ask.


----------



## jghost23

I see. Well it makes more sense what you should about PC 360 having a more vast soundstage (which you mentioned is excellent for gaming).


----------



## Rebel975

http://www.amazon.com/ART-Tube-MP-Microphone-Preamp/dp/tags-on-product/B0002GZZNY
   
  It's kind of  big, but now I'm serious business. Anyway, it was extremely easy to do the mic mod. If you can make a circle out of a piece of metal then you can do it too.


----------



## jghost23

The h3500s are 1,000 usd on amazon. Got damn!


----------



## chicolom

The labtec LVA-7330 mic is actually in stock @ amazon for $9.99 now....  Weird
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Labtec-LVA7330-ClearVoice-Head-Microphone/dp/B00000JBRV/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t


----------



## rabidgamer

Okay... I thought I was done with 'gaming' headphones for a bit but yeah... lasted like a month and now I want another set to play with lol.
   
  I am thinking of the DT 770 Pro 80ohms, they need to be closed... before this I had the AD700s which were GREAT for soundstage/details, then the PC 360s which I felt were pretty much great at everything, just the fact they were open meant I had to turn them up louder to drown out a little brother and like 2 other very loud family members, so anyway... they need to be closed. 
   
  Basically just wondering if they will be good all round headphones, the HFI 780s are great for the music I enjoy but so uncomfortable that wearing them for hours is an impossibility.
   
  I read in the first post that the bass would drown out some of the details, would it really make a MASSIVE difference? I just want to have fun but at the same time have some advantage over other players... mainly just play BF3 these days, and single player games.
   
  Also, last question (sorry about the massive post) does the Mixamp have enough to power the DT 770s for game + voice chat?
   
  Thanks for any help...


----------



## Pooplow

I have a very noob question. I'm currently using onboard sound on my motherboard, and I was looking at the Fiio E7 and the Mixamp. Can you have the E7 be the DAC and have the Dolby headphone surround sound from the mixamp? If so, how would you connect it? Reading the product manuals from the websites and lack of confirmation leaves me confused.


----------



## Eric_C

E7 into MixAmp would defeat the purpose of the MixAmp, I think. Each product takes a digital signal and converts it to analog. Putting either before the other negates the subsequent one. 

MixAmp only, or E7 only.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Frankly, if you're looking at upgrading a desktop PC's sound, you could save a lot of money (Xonar DG) or get better performance with a sound card in that price range (X-Fi Titanium HD, perhaps) over both the E7 and the Mixamp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> E7 into MixAmp would defeat the purpose of the MixAmp, I think. Each product takes a digital signal and converts it to analog. Putting either before the other negates the subsequent one.
> MixAmp only, or E7 only.


 


  Ya, like Eric C said.  They are both DACs, which means digital to analog converter.  Whichever one is first inline will do the converting from digital to analog, and the second one will just get the first's analog signal.  But for the purpose of the mixamp, it needs to be first in order to properly apply the surround sound DSPs. 
   
  If you're using the mixamp correctly though, that mean's you're hooking it up to a 5.1 signal (toslink/optical), which the E7 doesn't take anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chicolom, every single time I see your posts I get distracted by the overwhelming joy of your avatars. h34r:

Just had to mention it...again. 

edit: What, where the hell did my DT990's bass go? :confused_face(1):

It sounds like a DT880 now.... Hell, I hooked up the DT990 to my E7 alone with EQ3 (which is bassy as all hell)... it's pretty much where the bass used to be. I'm concerned.


----------



## Pooplow

I see. I always thought that the mixamp was an amp, not a DAC. Anyways, is there any way to use a USB DAC and still get Dolby Headphone? Or am I stuck with either sound card/mixamp for that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anything that converts the digital signal to something that outputs sounds on headphones is a DAC. But I guess you're reffering to head-fi's term of a DAC, in which, yes, the Pro/Wired has a DAC, but I owned the pre-2010 wired version which didn't have that feature, so I dunno exactly how the new one's USB DAC functions.


----------



## rabidgamer

Currently got a pair of DT 770 Pro 80s on high bid for £112... they cost £130ish new so if it goes any higher I will just purchase them new.
   
  Hopefully they are as good as I'm expecting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you expect a very robust bottom end, recessed mids, and plenty of treble, then they'll be fine. Don't expect detail-whores, as they can be a bit muddy at times.


----------



## rabidgamer

So a bit like the HFI 780s I have at the moment then? lol, the main reason I don't use them for gaming is they have an incredibly loud hiss when connected to the mixamp, not experienced it with any other headphones yet... it's weird. And they are extremely uncomfortable.
   
  Mainly wanting them to have 'fun' and be immersed, so I imagine they will fit that bill perfectly. I've not been playing competitively for a while now... it was MW then WAW then a bit of MW2... then Black Ops somewhat went downhill and MW3 is just unplayable with headphones for me.. sounds so so terrible. So ultra clarity isn't an issue for me anymore really.


----------



## obazavil

@MLE
   
  DT990/600 - 250
  D7000 - 600
  NFB + C 2.2 - 800
  E7 + E9 - 200
*Total: $1,850*
   
  You see? You are not that far from me!
  Now let's think on your next upgrade


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

obazavil said:


> @MLE
> 
> DT990/600 - 250
> D7000 - 600
> ...




You forgot the PC360.  

And oh hush! You have two high ends!


----------



## Danny0990

Can the C 2.2 be chained with the  astro mixamp? Also, does it come with a remote? I've been contemplating whether to grab it or not.


----------



## chicolom

EDIT: Whenever I post, it starts a new page...The forum must know how important my posts are 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, every single time I see your posts I get distracted by the overwhelming joy of your avatars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
Well, in that case 

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anything that converts the digital signal to something that outputs sounds on headphones is a DAC. But I guess you're reffering to head-fi's term of a DAC, in which, yes, the Pro/Wired has a DAC, but I owned the pre-2010 wired version which didn't have that feature, so I dunno exactly how the new one's USB DAC functions.


 

  
  Technically I think all the mixamps are DACs when used with optical cables, as they decode the Dolby Digital 5.1 into an analog dolby headphone signal.  When used with RCA inputs, with the dolby pro logic turned OFF, it is just an amp.
   
  Also, I've never plugged a mixamp pro into a computer with USB to test it, but from what the manual says the usb connection can be used for strictly voice voice communication OR as a straight up DAC:
   


> *From the Mixamp Pro Manual:*
> 
> 
> "Simple USB Method: The ASTRO Gaming USB MixAmp can simply be connected with the supplied USB cable, enabling both game audio and voice communication with a single connection. Although this is a simple and easy way to connect, by combining both of these audio streams together on one cable, the MixAmp™ will not be able to function as a “Mixer”. That is, the BALANCE control will not function."
> ...


 
   
  So it sounds like the mixamp CAN just work over a single USB, but Astro wants people to just use the USB for voice/chat and use a seperate input for the game audio in order to mix things.
   
  Can someone with wired pro mixamp confirm that you can plug in NOTHING but a USB cable and get proper dolby headphone sound from the computer?


----------



## chicolom

I almost think Astro took out the analog inputs on the wireless mixamp to prevent fools from hooking it up incorrectly.  Just found this post from someone on the Astro forums on hooking it up:
   
  Quote: 





> "When you have an mixamp you really should use the usb to plug into your computer and use that as your mic input since you want the usb plugged in anyway as a power supply. Also this allows your mixamp to mix the voice channel and the game channel (which can't be done otherwise).
> 
> 
> _Ok...that part is correct ^..._
> ...


 

_ _


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Can someone with wired pro mixamp confirm that you can plug in NOTHING but a USB cable and get proper dolby headphone sound from the computer?


 


  Ive hooked mine up to the pc and it only works in stereo mode. You dont get DH, turning it on does nothing. I havent tried it for chat.
   
  EDIT: Im going to retest it with a dvd. I dont think I had the setting right for the player
   
  EDIT2: I think all my settings are correct and DH does nothing when the mixamp is hooked up through usb


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> I see. I always thought that the mixamp was an amp, not a DAC. Anyways, is there any way to use a USB DAC and still get Dolby Headphone? Or am I stuck with either sound card/mixamp for that?


 

 Only if the USB DAC itself has Dolby Headphone support, in which case it's not just a DAC, but also a DSP. Most DACs mentioned on audiophile sites like this do without the DSP features entirely.
   
  Sure, you could pick up something cheap like a Xonar U3, but is there any particular reason why you'd want to stick to USB for audio in the first place?
   
  In other news... *glances at price list* Wow, $1,850? I haven't even spent half that...yet. (It's only a matter of how long I can resist the urge to buy more Stax.)
   
  Quote: 





weez82 said:


> Ive hooked mine up to the pc and it only works in stereo mode. You dont get DH, turning it on does nothing. I havent tried it for chat.






 You have the Mixamp Pro, _not_ the older A40 Mixamp revision, right?


----------



## Pooplow

Let's say I have a Xonar DG. Can I hook it up to a DAC like Fiio E7/17 via digital s/pdif and have both Dolby Headphone and high end sound for music? I read somewhere that if you connected it this way, you bypass the soundcard's DAC but still retain it's software features.


----------



## Danny0990

Quote: 





weez82 said:


> Ive hooked mine up to the pc and it only works in stereo mode. You dont get DH, turning it on does nothing. I havent tried it for chat.
> 
> EDIT: Im going to retest it with a dvd. I dont think I had the setting right for the player
> 
> EDIT2: I think all my settings are correct and DH does nothing when the mixamp is hooked up through usb


 
   
  Incorrect. I have the 2011 version and it does function as a DAC and an AMP. It's tricky to set up on PC, but it can be done.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> Let's say I have a Xonar DG. Can I hook it up to a DAC like Fiio E7/17 via digital s/pdif and have both Dolby Headphone and high end sound for music? I read somewhere that if you connected it this way, you bypass the soundcard's DAC but still retain it's software features.


 

 In theory, the sound card should be acting as DSP and transport only, while the external DAC does the actual decoding. That's how it works on X-Fi cards, anyway.
   
  But Xonar cards allegedly have a limitation with Dolby Headphone; it can't be used with the S/PDIF output. I cannot confirm or deny this without a card to test with.
   
  The FiiO E7 is USB-only, which is why I'm not too fond of it as a DAC, but the upcoming E17 does add an S/PDIF input on top, which makes this setup plausible.


----------



## Pooplow

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> In theory, the sound card should be acting as DSP and transport only, while the external DAC does the actual decoding. That's how it works on X-Fi cards, anyway.
> 
> But Xonar cards allegedly have a limitation with Dolby Headphone; it can't be used with the S/PDIF output. I cannot confirm or deny this without a card to test with.
> 
> The FiiO E7 is USB-only, which is why I'm not too fond of it as a DAC, but the upcoming E17 does add an S/PDIF input on top, which makes this setup plausible.


 


  In that case, are there any budget X-fi cards that are good for gaming? I'm a competitive FPS player, so having CMSS-3D or DH really helps in hearing enemy footsteps and other audio cues.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> In that case, are there any budget X-fi cards that are good for gaming? I'm a competitive FPS player, so having CMSS-3D or DH really helps in hearing enemy footsteps and other audio cues.


 

  
  The X-Fi titanium is the cheapest true X-Fi.  The cheaper X-Fi's don't have the actual chip on it.


----------



## Pooplow

Nice. I think I can find one for around 60-80 dollars. What's the difference between this and the Titanium HD?


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> Nice. I think I can find one for around 60-80 dollars. What's the difference between this and the Titanium HD?


 

 The titanium HD is made for better analog output, if that's what you're after.  Most people here would use the digital out to an external DAC.  I think the Titanium HD has coax instead of optical digital IO.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> In that case, are there any budget X-fi cards that are good for gaming? I'm a competitive FPS player, so having CMSS-3D or DH really helps in hearing enemy footsteps and other audio cues.


 

 Asus Xonar DG ($35, PCI) comes with a half-way decent headphone amplifier rated up to 150-Ohms
  Comes with Dolby Digital (Dolby Headphone surround sound).
  Better with Windows Vista or Windows 7.
   
  Windows XP or earlier or with games designed before Windows Vista,
  But nothing wrong for using it with Win Vista and 7.
  Get the Creative X-Fi Titanium with CMSS-3D (non-HD)
  Good prices for used ones on eBay, make sure it comes with the original installation CD(s)


----------



## NamelessPFG

-Not as high-quality components (more in line with a Xonar DG, while the Titanium HD was built to compete with the Essence STX and Auzentech's various cards)
  -More analog outputs (Titanium HD only does stereo through analog; fine if you only use headphones, not so much for those who also use surround speakers)
  -No full 64 MB of X-RAM or EMI shield (not a big deal)
  -No THX TruStudio Pro effects you'll never use (especially since they're Entertainment Mode-only and I'm either spending my time in Game Mode for the obvious reason or Audio Creation Mode for bit-matched music playback through ASIO)
  -Perhaps not being utterly nonfunctional in Linux...
  ...that's about all I can think of.
   
  Also, as long as it's not an XtremeAudio card (at least out of Creative's lineup; there are other cards like the X-Fi Bravura and Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 to avoid) and has an S/PDIF output without any hard-to-find adapters, you should be good as far as X-Fi DSP features go, because I can't think of any other non-XtremeAudio-branded cards that lack the EMU20k1 or EMU20k2.
   
  One plausible upgrade route is just to get the X-Fi Titanium for now, and if that's not good enough, use S/PDIF/Toslink/optical to feed an audio DAC later, whenever you can justify spending $300+ on one.


----------



## Pooplow

Alright, thanks for your replies. So final setup should look something like this:
   
  X-fi card > S/pdif > DAC > Headphone
   
  Would the card come with the cables, or do I have to purchase seperately?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





danny0990 said:


> Incorrect. I have the 2011 version and it does function as a DAC and an AMP. It's tricky to set up on PC, but it can be done.


 


  He was saying that he was only getting stereo.  Are you saying that your getting _proper_ dolby headphone with only USB?


----------



## Danny0990

Wups. I misread him


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

danny0990 said:


> Can the C 2.2 be chained with the  astro mixamp? Also, does it come with a remote? I've been contemplating whether to grab it or not.




Yes, the C-2.2 has RCA in, so you would just hook up a 3.5mm male to RCA male cable. The 3.5mm goes into the Mixamp's headphone out.

Somebody please confirm that the Mixamp Pro can output Dolby Headphone audio through the USB. I figured it'd do stereo.

I already know the Mixamp will work properly on PC through an optical out, assuming audio settings on the PC are set to put out Dolby Digital. It is a hassle though, so I just leave PC audio in stereo for my real DACs (E7 now, NFB 3.1 in a few weeks).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





pooplow said:


> Alright, thanks for your replies. So final setup should look something like this:
> 
> X-fi card > S/pdif > DAC > Headphone
> 
> Would the card come with the cables, or do I have to purchase seperately?


 

 Ideally, yes, though the cost of a DAC that can actually outdo the X-Fi Titanium HD or any other internal sound card won't come cheap from what I've heard. It's up to you if you want to use the savings on a basic X-Fi Titanium over the Titanium HD for an external DAC.
   
  I don't know about the lower-end Titanium models, but the X-Fi Prelude, X-Fi Forte, and X-Fi Titanium HD all came with Toslink/optical S/PDIF cables. I'd expect no less even from the lower-end cards.


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> You have the Mixamp Pro, _not_ the older A40 Mixamp revision, right?


 


  Yep, the Pro 2011 version (I got it in Nov)


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





weez82 said:


> Yep, the Pro 2011 version (I got it in Nov)


 

 Well, that's not reassuring. The Mixamp Pro's supposed to have better USB functionality.
   
  Did the Windows sound control panel allow you to set the Mixamp to 5.1 or 7.1 instead of plain stereo?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, that's not reassuring. The Mixamp Pro's supposed to have better USB functionality.
> 
> Did the Windows sound control panel allow you to set the Mixamp to 5.1 or 7.1 instead of plain stereo?


 


  The new MixAmp can switch between 5.1 and 7.1? I thought games don't code in 7.1?
  FWIW the old MixAmp switches between surround and stereo by pressing the Dolby Digital button on the amp itself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No such thing as 7.1. Its still decoding the same way as the original Mixamp. They can state its 7.1 because there aren't any actual speakers, and awhole 360 degree soundfield is virtualized. Hell, they can call it 20.1 and they could get away with it. Its still a 5.1 DD signal turned into Room 2 Dolby Headphone.


----------



## autoteleology

Is the Mixamp Pro wired or wireless? It seems to be kind of vague about it on the Astro website.

EDIT: In retrospect, this seems like a fairly stupid question.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, that's not reassuring. The Mixamp Pro's supposed to have better USB functionality.
> 
> Did the Windows sound control panel allow you to set the Mixamp to 5.1 or 7.1 instead of plain stereo?


 

  
  The original Version 1 wired mixamp's USB port was for power only - no data was passed through.  The only reason to plug in the USB was for a power source.  The second version of the wired mixamp (now called "Mixamp Pro") had a data USB port, so it could be used for power and for sending/receiving audio.
   
   
  Maybe someone should email Astro about whether the wired mixamp can do dolby headphone through USB only - and if so, how to set it up...


----------



## jghost23

You know I think it's sad that there are so many Astro headphone fans. I mean it seems to be just ignorant gamers. I hope I don't offend anyone. I've just done a lot of research and people with little audio knowledge praise astro's headsets. I feel bad for people spending that amount of money on a mediocre headset. Thanks for all the advice you guys have given me. You have saved me from disappointment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's just that they haven't done their homework, and go off whatever stuff like MLG recommends.

These are typically the type of people who think Beats and Bose are what's the best in headphone audio.

I wouldn't call them stupid or anything, just not well informed. The Astro A40 was my first headset because I was looking for the best, and happened upon a site where they were recommended to me. Ironically, I still felt severely underwhelmed by them even though I knew next to nothing about headphones. I then asked for something better where I was recommended the AD700s. That's really what got me into this hobby. They blew me away.


----------



## Eric_C

People probably become Astro headphone fans because of the pricing too. MixAmp alone just doesn't seem worth it when compared to MixAmp + A40 (or A30), so that attracts buyers.


----------



## sabzingeur

Hi guys, I just got a pair DT 880s yesterday evening, truly impressed. I am planning for this setup for gaming, any comments:
   
  Xonar DG sound card (for Dolby Headphone) ---> FiiO E11 --> DT880s


----------



## jghost23

I agree completely. That's why I'm happy I will be getting a headset close to something like the AD700s.  According to your ratings at least. Would I be wasting money by getting two set of cans? Will something like the DT900s be that much more immersive than the PC 360s?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's just that they haven't done their homework, and go off whatever stuff like MLG recommends.
> These are typically the type of people who think Beats and Bose are what's the best in headphone audio.
> I wouldn't call them stupid or anything, just not well informed. The Astro A40 was my first headset because I was looking for the best, and happened upon a site where they were recommended to me. Ironically, I still felt severely underwhelmed by them even though I knew next to nothing about headphones. I then asked for something better where I was recommended the AD700s. That's really what got me into this hobby. They blew me away.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jghost23 said:


> I agree completely. That's why I'm happy I will be getting a headset close to something like the AD700s.  According to your ratings at least. Would I be wasting money by getting two set of cans? Will something like the DT900s be that much more immersive than the PC 360s?




In terms of immersion, the DT990 destroys the PC360. I couldn't see myself with just the PC360 for both competitive and immersive gaming.

To be honest, I've been using just the DT990s lately. Only when I feel the need to chat, do I use the PC360, which is pretty much never now.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> Hi guys, I just got a pair DT 880s yesterday evening, truly impressed. I am planning for this setup for gaming, any comments:
> Xonar DG sound card (for Dolby Headphone) ---> FiiO E11 --> DT880s


 
  Are the DT880s 32-ohm, 250-Ohm or 600-Ohm?
   
  The headphone amplifier on the Xonar DG may/should not work with the 250-Ohm and would not work with the 600-Ohm.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Are the DT880s 32-ohm, 250-Ohm or 600-Ohm?
> 
> The headphone amplifier on the Xonar DG may/should not work with the 250-Ohm and would not work with the 600-Ohm.


 


  250-ohm, I know the headphone amplifier on the Xonar DG is weak, that's why I'm planning to use the FiiO F11 in between for better sound. The setup is:

 Xonar DG soundcard --> Fiio F11 headphone amplifier --> DT 880s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That setup shouldn't have issues. 

While the DT880s left me unimpressed for positioning rear sounds for FPS games, they are one of my very faves for everything else.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That setup shouldn't have issues.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yeah, I bought the DT880s after reading your recommendations, Mad Lust. Thanks for that. I haven't not been able to test rear sound positioning because my Xonar DG hasn't arrived yet, currently I only have XFi virtual surround and it had never been impressive, I cannot tell the difference amongst any position to the rear, plus many sounds just seem 'central' no matter where they are from. I really hope that Dolby Headphones is much better.
   
  I'm for fun gaming though, and I'm in love with the DT880s already, especially the bass, yum! Thanks Mad Lust!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was actually considering getting a pair of DT880 Pros as my well balanced can... but I already feel like it'd be overkill as I have too many cans...


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, that's not reassuring. The Mixamp Pro's supposed to have better USB functionality.
> 
> Did the Windows sound control panel allow you to set the Mixamp to 5.1 or 7.1 instead of plain stereo?


 


  When I go into the control panel it only shows the option for stereo. I think if they made drivers for their mixamp it would be a winner for pc use. But as it is now, the windows default driver is lacking.


----------



## Eric_C

sabzingeur: Congrats on the DT 880! Is yours Pro or Premium? 
  I can confirm what MLE's saying about rear positioning with the 880; even with Dolby Digital I can't place rear sounds accurately. Then again one should always be checking their 6 o'clock...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For some reason, I feel like the Pro Beyers have better positioning than the Premiums. The DT990 Pro and DT770 Pro are both superior than their Premium counterparts. Perhaps the DT880 Pro is the same. Maybe the stronger clamp helps positioning.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For some reason, I feel like the Pro Beyers have better positioning than the Premiums. The DT990 Pro and DT770 Pro are both superior than their Premium counterparts. Perhaps the DT880 Pro is the same. Maybe the stronger clamp helps positioning.


 


  But your DT 990s are Premium right? I just raved about my new DT 880s at a local forum and someone with a pair of DT 990s (Pro) already want to exchange theirs for mine. I gotta consider though, because you said DT 990s (Premium, presumably) have such good bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT880s are no slouch in bass either. The DT990 just has quite a bit more.

Yeah I have the Premiums. The DT990 Pros have better positioning, but it had more mid bass than I wanted. I'm somewhat sensitive to mid bass, and a lot of it gives me headaches.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





> Xonar DG soundcard --> Fiio F11 headphone amplifier --> DT 880s


 
   
  My friends are telling me that by doing this I am double-amping and thus audio quality would be sub-optimal. Do you think this setup still yields better quality than connecting the headphones directly to the soundcard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, you won't be double amping if you connect the Fiio E11 from a line out on the soundcard. HOWEVER, I'm not certain you can get Dolby Headphone without double amping anyways. Apparently some soundcards do, most don't.

For us who game on consoles, you CAN'T get Dolby Headphone and use another amp without double amping. Double amping for Dolby Headphone on hard to drive headphones is fine, and is severely blown out of proportion here.

Just think of the first amp as a pre-amp. So unless you want to b*tch and complain about not maintaining the absolute cleanest signal to your headphones, suck it up, connect the amp to your DH device, and enjoy the game. That or play with your clean signal in plain stereo.

Christ. People act as if its the end of the world if you double amp. People need to realize that Dolby Headphone is HEAVILY processed audio, and doesn't exactly nitpick on signal clarity. In fact, it being so processed seems to hide whatever imperfections double amping does in the first place.

Sorry for being so blunt, but it annoys me. This isn't MUSIC, this is gaming. The benefit of DH FAR outweighs whatever fidelity loss is caused by double amping.


----------



## Cheapy

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> My friends are telling me that by doing this I am double-amping and thus audio quality would be sub-optimal. Do you think this setup still yields better quality than connecting the headphones directly to the soundcard?


 

 Just to add to Mad Lust Envy's comment.
   
  I just put my DG on the >32 Ohms setting (VOIP setting I think?) turned the volume up to 80 and then ran a cable from the headphone out of my DG to the line in of my Fiio E9 where I use the E9 to control the volume I want. If I remember right the DG only lets you use Dolby Headphone when you have only the headphone jack in use hence you carn't bypass the DG's amp unless you never want to use Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Evarin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's just that they haven't done their homework, and go off whatever stuff like MLG recommends.
> These are typically the type of people who think Beats and Bose are what's the best in headphone audio.
> I wouldn't call them stupid or anything, just not well informed. The Astro A40 was my first headset because I was looking for the best, and happened upon a site where they were recommended to me. Ironically, I still felt severely underwhelmed by them even though I knew next to nothing about headphones. I then asked for something better where I was recommended the AD700s. That's really what got me into this hobby. They blew me away.


 


  There are video reviews for people who work for major companies (CNET, etc) which directly compare the Astro A40's and the PC360's and find them to be roughly equal. It is difficult to get an idea of headphones without picking them up and trying them on for extended periods of time. Otherwise, it's all a crapshoot.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Christ. People act as if its the end of the world if you double amp. People need to realize that Dolby Headphone is HEAVILY processed audio, and doesn't exactly nitpick on signal clarity. In fact, it being so processed seems to hide whatever imperfections double amping does in the first place. Sorry for being so blunt, but it annoys me. This isn't MUSIC, this is gaming. The benefit of DH FAR outweighs whatever fidelity loss is caused by double amping.


 
   
  Completely agree. People often forget, or don't even consider that game sounds aren't produced to the same standards and quality music is. Consider the amount of content to the game, and the actual amount of space it takes up on a disc or your hard drive. Clearly, sound is highly compressed; a $1000+ setup is overkill to buy for something game developers more often than not do not break their backs over perfecting.
   
  Oh, haithar MLE. I'm back btw.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

riku540 said:


> Completely agree. People often forget, or don't even consider that game sounds aren't produced to the same standards and quality music is. Consider the amount of content to the game, and the actual amount of space it takes up on a disc or your hard drive. Clearly, sound is highly compressed; a $1000+ setup is overkill to buy for something game developers more often than not do not break their backs over perfecting.
> 
> Oh, haithar MLE. I'm back btw.




I was gonna leave when I got all my new stuff and posted thorough impressions, but you make me wanna stay. 

You complete me.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Completely agree. People often forget, or don't even consider that game sounds aren't produced to the same standards and quality music is. Consider the amount of content to the game, and the actual amount of space it takes up on a disc or your hard drive. Clearly, sound is highly compressed; a $1000+ setup is overkill to buy for something game developers more often than not do not break their backs over perfecting.
> 
> Oh, haithar MLE. I'm back btw.


 

 X2
   
  amen to that 
   
  I double amped using Black Ops with K702 and DT990, and I didn't noticed a change in the sound... well... Black Ops sounds is terrible to begin with...


----------



## Riku540

Honestly, I think any sub-$300 headphone that's fairly easy or at least reasonable to drive, paired with a Mixamp or DH soundcard pretty much hits the sweet-spot for the price to performance ratio for gaming.
   
  Player skill will be blamed long before their headphone setup. How many of you are still beat by people who play on built-in TV speakers? Don't lie. We know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Riku, you still have BLOPS on PS3? I wanna play with you.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> X2
> 
> amen to that
> 
> I double amped using Black Ops with K702 and DT990, and I didn't noticed a change in the sound... well... Black Ops sounds is terrible to begin with...


 
   
  Not to mention, gaming and listening to music have your focus in entirely different places. While gaming, your focus is spread out and your mind is multitasking. When listening to music, your mind is completely focused on that, and every little detail. Chances are, if you're so absorbed into the sound of your game to the point of being like you're listening to music, you're -probably- not paying as good attention as to what's on your screen and enemy radar.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Riku, you still have BLOPS on PS3? I wanna play with you.


 
   
  I do, but I've rotted away from CoD for almost a year now. I'm completely useless, unless your intent is to get a good laugh at how bad I am.
   
  If only I could equip Unrelenting Force to my loadout...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It'll come back to you. We gotta get on. I jumped in after many months and just destroyed.


----------



## jghost23

Wish I could say the same. I have a clan and communication is crucial.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In terms of immersion, the DT990 destroys the PC360. I couldn't see myself with just the PC360 for both competitive and immersive gaming.
> To be honest, I've been using just the DT990s lately. Only when I feel the need to chat, do I use the PC360, which is pretty much never now.


----------



## jghost23

I'll stick with the PC 360 for now because of the soundstage and positional accuracy. In 6 months time I will decide on a set of cans for immersion.
   
  To conclude, I will be placing my orders within 1-2 days. I just want to make sure I order all the right stuff so I don't incur double shipping costs. If I'm missing anything from this list please correct. 
   
  To buy: from amazon or another website: PC360 headset,  from Astro: Astro mixamp 5.8 (wireless), Ps3 chat cable, rechargeable battery pack
   
  The mixamp wireless comes with a 3' optical cable. I presume if I need anymore range I can purchase an optical cable at Wal Mart or Radio shack instead of buying Astro's overpriced cable? I think that is it..I may stop by best buy or somewhere to get a headset case to carry my stuff around.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> I haven't not been able to test rear sound positioning because my Xonar DG hasn't arrived yet, currently I only have XFi virtual surround and it had never been impressive, I cannot tell the difference amongst any position to the rear, plus many sounds just seem 'central' no matter where they are from. I really hope that Dolby Headphones is much better.


 

 What X-Fi device are you using, what games are you playing, and what's your Windows speaker setting?
   
  -First off, I doubt any X-Fi device without Game Mode (such as the XtremeAudio cards and any external USB devices) can do proper CMSS-3D Headphone.
  -Second, games with software audio engines read the Windows speaker setting to decide how to pre-mix sounds. If it's set to stereo and not 5.1 or 7.1, you're not giving CMSS-3D any surround channels to work with!
  -Third, some games just seem to mix their sounds without any real sense of directionality. Battlefield: Bad Company 2 comes to mind.
  -Finally, maybe your personal HRTF is too different from the generic one used by CMSS-3D Headphone, and the effect just falls apart. Dolby Headphone may not fare any better. In this case, the only solution is a Smyth Realiser...sorry about your wallet.
   
  It's kind of strange how many different impressions people get regarding this sort of thing. With software audio-based games (XAudio2, FMOD), they perform about evenly to where DH is a viable option if that's all you play. With hardware audio-based games (DirectSound3D, OpenAL), CMSS-3D Headphone has a tremendous positional edge over Dolby Headphone since it's simulating the game environment itself instead of a speaker system.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> The mixamp wireless comes with a 3' optical cable. I presume if I need anymore range I can purchase an optical cable at Wal Mart or Radio shack instead of buying Astro's overpriced cable?


 


  Try monoprice  > http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229
   
  But get one of the standard black ones, NOT the silver "premium" ones as they are pretty heavy and can damage delicate optical jacks.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I couldn't see myself with just the PC360 for both competitive and immersive gaming.
> To be honest, I've been using just the DT990s lately. Only when I feel the need to chat, do I use the PC360, which is pretty much never now.


 


  I'm sort of in the same boat.  I haven't really used my PC360s since I've gotten the Q701s.  The antlion mod mic is working well, and I'm not sure I _need _to keep a dedicated headset around anymore  :\
   
  Hmm.....maybe I should sell the PC360s....  Q701s are pretty good for immersion for me.  I don't find them sound cold or thin at all.  In fact, they have a thicker/punchier sound then most of the headphones I've tried, next to the CALs and DT880s.  They have more bass with the mixamp with bass boost off than the PC360s with bass boost turned on.  They have a much taller soundstage than PC360s and everything sounds _bigger_ (not soundstage size, but object size - like it images objects to be bigger/taller/etc.)  Things sounds smaller/shorter/thinner on the PC360.  Q701 also does better with close/center soundstage than PC360s.
   
  It sounds ridiculous, but I kind of want to compare the K70x and Q701.  Some say the Q701 has smaller soundstage, but also more accurate.  I have a feeling they are slightly warmer and more punchy than the K70x, but I'm still intrigued by the tempting promise of MOAR Soundstage LoL.  I could also pick up some DT990s or something, though I'm still a bit afraid of the treble and bass being too much......hmmmmmm
   
   
*MLE*, (or anyone else who's heard both >) we've heard MANY of the same headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  - what's your quick take on K70x and Dt990 in regards to soundstage performance and treble?  You could use the PC360s as a reference, or any of the other ones in my sig which you've probably heard as well.  Also are the Dt990 cups deeper than other Beyers?  I thought I read that somewhere...


----------



## jghost23

Would you guys say the DT 990s are good for immersion and competitive gaming? I don't want to be disappointed if the immersion on the PC 360s is horrible. Is a mod mic that hard to implement? If not I may go with those instead. Would you say the MMX 300s have better immersion and still decent directional ques?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> I don't want to be disappointed if the immersion on the PC 360s is horrible. Is a mod mic that hard to implement?


 

 PC360s aren't horrible for immersion.  Just not as good as the >$200 headphones, which is to be expected.
   
  The mod mic is pretty easy to setup.  You just have to stick it on the headphone and bend the boom to reach your mouth.


----------



## jghost23

What about functionality though??? like Muting and stuff?
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> PC360s aren't horrible for immersion.  Just not as good as the >$200 headphones, which is to be expected.
> 
> The mod mic is pretty easy to setup.  You just have to stick it on the headphone and bend the boom to reach your mouth.


 


  So would you say DT 990s or the K70x's are better than PC 360 with a mic modding onto them? I ask because I do not think there is a big difference in price between the DT 990s and the PC 360s, not sure about the K70x's though. Why not get the best SQ matched with directional ques for gaming. That way I have one can that can do it all?


----------



## Riku540

I believe the PC360's will mute the mic when in the up position, and has it's own volume dial on the side.
   
  When using an external mic with the Mixamp, you will need to either mute in-game if your mic doesn't have its own muting function or unplug the mic.
   
  Make your choice based on what functionalities are most important to you. Integrated mic solutions can be quite nice, and very few of them are priced reasonably.


----------



## jghost23

I see. Are there any clip on mics that have a mute button accessible in a reasonable place. And thanks. That's great advice. I just kind of want the best of both worlds. Good immersion and competitive edge. I guess that is hard to find. Plugging and unplugging the mic repeatedly could become problematic or even mess up the port the more I think about it. I just don't want to feel I could of got a better set of cans... SQ wise if I wasn't lazy and didn't do a mic mod. Lol man who would of thought so much thought would go into a pair of headphones/headsets.


----------



## Riku540

Well at the end of the day, are these purchases just for gaming, or music with gaming being a plus? As I've stated before, gaming alone might not always be worth the significant difference in price, especially when sacrificing functionality.
   
  If you don't have the extra cash to just drop on the DT 990 + a mic, and never really intend to use them for music listening, I wouldn't feel the least bit discontent with the PC360.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> *MLE*, (or anyone else who's heard both >) we've heard MANY of the same headphones
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For me, K702 with Lyr sounded as good (bass department) as dt990 with E9
   
  i never had any problems with treble on k702 nor dt990 (yeah.. i'm deaf)
   
  regarding gaming, the bass of dt990 sounded superb on single player, but was clear enough for multiplayer. No complains on immersion or clarity with dt990


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> When using an external mic with the Mixamp, you will need to either mute in-game if your mic doesn't have its own muting function or unplug the mic.


 


  Or buy a controller cable with a mute switch.  I have both of these 2.5mm turble beach cables and can confirm they work with the mixamp and mute external mics. 
   
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx1talkbackcable-2.aspx
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx31x41talkbackcableoptional.aspx


----------



## Riku540

My suggestion was in the interest of minimalism, and not everyone is on Xbox.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> What X-Fi device are you using, what games are you playing, and what's your Windows speaker setting?
> 
> -First off, I doubt any X-Fi device without Game Mode (such as the XtremeAudio cards and any external USB devices) can do proper CMSS-3D Headphone.
> -Second, games with software audio engines read the Windows speaker setting to decide how to pre-mix sounds. If it's set to stereo and not 5.1 or 7.1, you're not giving CMSS-3D


 


  Is XFi Titanium good enough? I play BF3 and I plug a pair of DT 880s directly to the sound card.
  _____________________________________
   
  By the way, Mad Lust Envy, should I exchange my DT 880s for a pair or DT 990s to get better immersion in games. I play for fun for the most part.


----------



## FarKim

OK, I've done a **** load of reading over the last week or two. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've made a decision, almost, sort of, not really.....
  My head hurts.
   
  Planned set up:
   
  Xonar DG --> AD700 or A700 (haven't decided yet)
   
  From what I've read the Xonar will power both of these fine without needing another amp.
  Please confirm?
   
  MLE's earlier mention about DH and double amping has confused me a little.
  I will get DH fine without the need to double amp.
  Please confirm?
   
  MLE and all others that have posted here, thank you for all your time, it has stopped me making another uninformed and pretty much dumb purchase.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





farkim said:


> Planned set up:
> 
> Xonar DG --> *AD700* or A700 (haven't decided yet)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Fixed. And yes, Audio Technica's are made to not need an amp. In fact, the Xonar has an amp already built in, so you're set either way already.
   
  Quote: 





farkim said:


> MLE's earlier mention about DH and double amping has confused me a little.
> I will get DH fine without the need to double amp.
> Please confirm?


 
   
  Irrelevant in your case and means nothing unless you plan to add a dedicated external amplifier to the mix, which would be pointless.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





farkim said:


> OK, I've done a **** load of reading over the last week or two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Anything will power the AD700s adequately.  The A700s are closed, and from what I've read have a messier soundstage.
   
  Going off your BF3 avatar, I'm inclined to suggest something other than the AD700s for you, as they won't deliver the immersion or fun of some other headphones.  The positioning they will deliver, if thats all you care about.  Of course given a sub $100 budget, your options get limited....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sabzingeur said:


> Is XFi Titanium good enough? I play BF3 and I plug a pair of DT 880s directly to the sound card.
> _____________________________________
> 
> By the way, Mad Lust Envy, should I exchange my DT 880s for a pair or DT 990s to get better immersion in games. I play for fun for the most part.




Definitely. If you play mostly fun, the DT990 is an easy recommendation.


----------



## moimd

Got my mixamp, hooked up to AD700s, its amazing how the Dolby Headphone opened the headphones up for FPS gaming. Im killing more people before they can knife me now in BF3, yay!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I'm sort of in the same boat.  I haven't really used my PC360s since I've gotten the Q701s.  The antlion mod mic is working well, and I'm not sure I _need _to keep a dedicated headset around anymore  :\
> 
> Hmm.....maybe I should sell the PC360s....  Q701s are pretty good for immersion for me.  I don't find them sound cold or thin at all.  In fact, they have a thicker/punchier sound then most of the headphones I've tried, next to the CALs and DT880s.  They have more bass with the mixamp with bass boost off than the PC360s with bass boost turned on.  They have a much taller soundstage than PC360s and everything sounds _bigger_ (not soundstage size, but object size - like it images objects to be bigger/taller/etc.)  Things sounds smaller/shorter/thinner on the PC360.  Q701 also does better with close/center soundstage than PC360s.
> 
> ...




The DT990's have a very open soundstage. It's not AD700 huge, but it's a bit smaller than the K701 in DH mode. The K701 has the widest soundtstage in stereo, but the AD700 opens up more in Dolby Headphone. The DT990 won't fail to impress, considering the bass would make you think it should sound more closed. I would say it's about as big as the PC360s, if not just maybe a teensy bit smaller, but it's close.

In terms of treble, while the DT990 is up there, the bass tends to flesh it out a little. the K701 doesn't get as harsh as the DT990, but it also doesn't have as much bass, so the mids and treble seem to be more prominent at times.

If you're okay with the DT880's treble, just expect a little more. But it really isn't bad especially for gaming. I honestly felt the AD700 to be quite a bit harsher when playing games.

The cups are all the same on the premium Beyers. I would think the DT770 gives you the most cup depth due to the pads not being as squishy as the DT880/990s. Expect the same feel as the DT880s.


----------



## chicolom

double post


----------



## FarKim

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Fixed. And yes, Audio Technica's are made to not need an amp. In fact, the Xonar has an amp already built in, so you're set either way already.
> 
> 
> Irrelevant in your case and means nothing unless you plan to add a dedicated external amplifier to the mix, which would be pointless.


 


  I see you disapprove of the A700's. I may need closed, hope not but am concerned about sound leakage.


  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Anything will power the AD700s adequately.  The A700s are closed, and from what I've read have a messier soundstage.
> 
> Going off your BF3 avatar, I'm inclined to suggest something other than the AD700s for you, as they won't deliver the immersion or fun of some other headphones.  The positioning they will deliver, if thats all you care about.  Of course given a sub $100 budget, your options get limited....


 
   
  That's concerning. How bad is the immersion likely to be?
  Can the limited bass be corrected with EQ?
  I'm currently using TB PX5's but if no one here has heard them, that won't help as a comparison.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990's have a very open soundstage. It's not AD700 huge, but it's a bit smaller than the K701 in DH mode. The K701 has the widest soundtstage in stereo, but the AD700 opens up more in Dolby Headphone. The DT990 won't fail to impress, considering the bass would make you think it should sound more closed. I would say it's about as big as the PC360s, if not just maybe a teensy bit smaller, but it's close.
> In terms of treble, while the DT990 is up there, the bass tends to flesh it out a little. the K701 doesn't get as harsh as the DT990, but it also doesn't have as much bass, so the mids and treble seem to be more prominent at times.
> If you're okay with the DT880's treble, just expect a little more. But it really isn't bad especially for gaming. I honestly felt the AD700 to be quite a bit harsher when playing games.
> The cups are all the same on the premium Beyers. I would think the DT770 gives you the most cup depth due to the pads not being as squishy as the DT880/990s. Expect the same feel as the DT880s.


 
   
  Head-fi is not letting me edit my double post above 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Well, I was fine with the DT880 treble.  It had a bit of sparkle, but nothing major.  The DH DSP also tends to gloss over the highs slightly.  The DT880s sounded good, but could have used a bigger soundstage.    I agree that AD700 could get pretty abrasive on some games, probably due in part of the lack of bass and upper mid frequencies to flesh out the sound.
   
  High emphasis gives a better sense of air IMO, something the AD700s excelled at.  I'm betting the DT990s can give some decent air too.  The Q701 are a little darker, but they have good separation still. 
   
  I like tight bass (< remove one letter and that sounds really dirty ) which the Dt880s were good at, but I'm willing to experiment with the infamous dt990.  If the bass gets out of the way pretty quickly, it may be fine.
   
  The earpads unfortunately may be a deal breaker.  I seem to remember the Dt880s cramping my ears a tad.
   
  Well regardless, its either those or some K70x to compare with my Q701s.  I've tried the most of the others, and nothing else really checks the boxes for me until you get to "too expensive" headphones.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





farkim said:


> I see you disapprove of the A700's. I may need closed, hope not but am concerned about sound leakage.


 

 I would go with the Creative Aurvana Live! or others if you need closed. A700 is outdated in terms of gaming. There are others but I can't recall at the moment...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





farkim said:


> I see you disapprove of the A700's. I may need closed, hope not but am concerned about sound leakage.
> 
> That's concerning. How bad is the immersion likely to be?
> Can the limited bass be corrected with EQ?
> I'm currently using TB PX5's but if no one here has heard them, that won't help as a comparison.


 

 I would save AD700s for strictly competitive gaming/gamers.  Outside that realm, they lose there appeal.  They're good for classical music, but not much else.  And no, the bass is too light to be fixed with EQ-ing.
   
  Also their sound leakage is pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Riku540

I suppose the real question is, what kind of scenario are we looking at where leakage is a concern?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I really don't see many scenarios where an open headphone is a bad thing. Unless you use them outside/where there is a lot of noise/next to someone who is sleeping, I don't see how an open headphone could bother ANYONE in terms of sound leak. It's just a really low sound, not like you're blaring music out loud. Hell, speakers on low volume are more disruptive than open headphones playing loudly. The K701 is the most open headphone I've heard, and they were just like a really low radio playing AM stations.

Chicolom, if for some reason you might think the DT990's treble may bother you, the DT990 pros have less grating highs due to the stronger mid bass. I would recommend them for anyone who isn't as sensitive to mid bass as I am.

The DT990 have a lot of air. Not K701 or AD700 airyness, but a siginificant leap in terms of air over the DT880s, which sounded somewhat in between closed and open (I guess that's why it's considered semi-open).

What I don't get is how people complain about the D2/5/7K's sound leak. Like seriously... it doesn't leak like an open can. It leaks, but what are these people doing, listening to their cans while laying next to the other person's head? Lol.


----------



## jghost23

Well honestly, at this point it's just for gaming. Right now it's just mw3, but I feel something like the DT 990s would make me want to play other games for once in my life besides call of duty. Which would be awesome. The DT 990s seem to be around 250. A mic that I can mod shouldn't be more than 20 bucks no? That's only around a 70 dollar difference for superior sound quality?
  http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-990-Premium-250-Ohm/dp/B000F2BLTW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326893977&sr=8-1 is this the correct model of the DT 990s?
  
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Well at the end of the day, are these purchases just for gaming, or music with gaming being a plus? As I've stated before, gaming alone might not always be worth the significant difference in price, especially when sacrificing functionality.
> 
> If you don't have the extra cash to just drop on the DT 990 + a mic, and never really intend to use them for music listening, I wouldn't feel the least bit discontent with the PC360.


 
  Also, as I think about it. I don't own an expensive computer like most of you. So something like the DT990s probably wouldn't even run probably on my laptop. So that's out the picture. Leaving them for my ps3 only for the time being. And if I do get the DT 990s.... will I need an E9 on top of the mixamp 5.8?


----------



## jghost23

Are those only good for XBOX? I play on ps3.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Or buy a controller cable with a mute switch.  I have both of these 2.5mm turble beach cables and can confirm they work with the mixamp and mute external mics.
> 
> http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx1talkbackcable-2.aspx
> http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx31x41talkbackcableoptional.aspx


 


 EDIT: nvm, figured it out myself.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sabzingeur said:


> Is XFi Titanium good enough? I play BF3 and I plug a pair of DT 880s directly to the sound card.


 

 It's good enough; all X-Fi Titanium cards have the EMU20k2 X-Fi DSP.
   
  Since BF3 uses software audio, it's looking at the Windows speaker setting. If that's only set to stereo, then stereo is all CMSS-3D Headphone gets, and it doesn't really work like it's supposed to.
   
  If you really want to know what it can do, try one of the pre-BC2 Battlefield titles that use DirectSound3D (BF1942, BF:Vietnam; be sure to use ALchemy) or OpenAL (BF2, BF2142). Shouldn't even need the Windows speaker setting trick since they basically talk to the sound card driver directly.


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





farkim said:


> I see you disapprove of the A700's. I may need closed, hope not but am concerned about sound leakage.
> 
> That's concerning. How bad is the immersion likely to be?
> Can the limited bass be corrected with EQ?
> I'm currently using TB PX5's but if no one here has heard them, that won't help as a comparison.


 
   
  I owned the PX5s briefly and have heard the AD700s.  TBH, I don't see the point in moving from the PX5s to the ADs.  While the ADs do offer better sound quality, I'm not sure the difference is enough to justify spending money on -- at least not for me. The biggest problem I have with both of these is that they are both so bass light.  The difference in sound quality is there but not enough of a difference to justify what it'll cost you to switch -- where the PX5s will sometimes crackle from big sounds/explosions, the ADs do not, however there is no weight or heft to their sound either.  The ADs sounded like a pair of tin cans strapped to my head when trying to replicate any decent amount of bass!  Soundstage wise, I'm not even sure the ADs are much of an improvement if any at all.  That really says a lot about the PX5s imo as they have a really nice soundstage.  That's probably their greatest asset in fact but it's exactly why I wouldn't consider the ADs a worthy upgrade.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> if I do get the DT 990s.... will I need an E9 on top of the mixamp 5.8?


 

 Not if you get the 32 ohm version.


----------



## FarKim

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> I owned the PX5s briefly and have heard the AD700s.  TBH, I don't see the point in moving from the PX5s to the ADs.  While the ADs do offer better sound quality, I'm not sure the difference is enough to justify spending money on -- at least not for me. The biggest problem I have with both of these is that they are both so bass light.  The difference in sound quality is there but not enough of a difference to justify what it'll cost you to switch -- where the PX5s will sometimes crackle from big sounds/explosions, the ADs do not, however there is no weight or heft to their sound either.  The ADs sounded like a pair of tin cans strapped to my head when trying to replicate any decent amount of bass!  Soundstage wise, I'm not even sure the ADs are much of an improvement if any at all.  That really says a lot about the PX5s imo as they have a really nice soundstage.  That's probably their greatest asset in fact but it's exactly why I wouldn't consider the ADs a worthy upgrade.


 

 Thank you Jae304.
  I guess if I want significant improvement (and something with better bass than the PX5's) I'll have to spend more money.
  Back to the drawing board.
  *sigh*


----------



## FarKim

Quote: 





jae304 said:


> I owned the PX5s briefly and have heard the AD700s.  TBH, I don't see the point in moving from the PX5s to the ADs.  While the ADs do offer better sound quality, I'm not sure the difference is enough to justify spending money on -- at least not for me. The biggest problem I have with both of these is that they are both so bass light.  The difference in sound quality is there but not enough of a difference to justify what it'll cost you to switch -- where the PX5s will sometimes crackle from big sounds/explosions, the ADs do not, however there is no weight or heft to their sound either.  The ADs sounded like a pair of tin cans strapped to my head when trying to replicate any decent amount of bass!  Soundstage wise, I'm not even sure the ADs are much of an improvement if any at all.  That really says a lot about the PX5s imo as they have a really nice soundstage.  That's probably their greatest asset in fact but it's exactly why I wouldn't consider the ADs a worthy upgrade.


 

 Have you heard the CAL's?
  Would they be an improvement over the PX5's?
   
  It's either that, or I have to spend twice the money on DT990's.


----------



## obazavil

One of my friends is considering buying an mixamp + headphones instead of a ps3 sony headset (muahahahhaha)
   
  I forgot what cheap ( < $130) headphones works nice for gaming (both multi and single) and do music too.
   
  Any recommendations? 
   
  P.D. I'm going to lent him A30 and CAL in the meantime


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> One of my friends is considering buying an mixamp + headphones instead of a ps3 sony headset (muahahahhaha)
> 
> I forgot what cheap ( < $130) headphones works nice for gaming (both multi and single) and do music too.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Samson SR850, the supposed king (never heard them myself) of budget headphones, for both immersive and competetive gaming and music. I just bought a pair, hope they're as good as people describe, should be here by the end of the week. I'll post my impressions after I get a chance to hear them and compare to my AD700.


----------



## FarKim

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> I would go with the Creative Aurvana Live! or others if you need closed. A700 is outdated in terms of gaming. There are others but I can't recall at the moment...


 


  We'll I got sick of trying to make the right decision, so I made 'a' decision.
   
  I have ordered the CAL's.
  $70 AUD and free shipping to New Zealand, so all in all, a good deal.
  And if I don't like them for gaming I can always take them to work to replace my HD201's for music.
   
  Just need the sound card and I'm set.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> One of my friends is considering buying an mixamp + headphones instead of a ps3 sony headset (muahahahhaha)
> 
> I forgot what cheap ( < $130) headphones works nice for gaming (both multi and single) and do music too.
> 
> ...


 

 The Sony PS3 headset actually, I can't say anything bad about. I got one for Christmas, and _*for less than half the cost*_ of a Mixamp + AD700 you get:
   
  - PS3 + PC compatibility
  - True digital wireless. No clutter like the Wireless Mixamp 5.8
  - Built-in Microphone with Game/Voice ratio adjustment (the same as Mixamp)
  - 7.1 Virtual surround sound. Good positioning. Sounds more processed than Mixamp, can be turned off for regular stereo.
  - On-screen battery/mic/volume indicator
   
  The leakage is quite low for my uses. I played for several hours a few times with my wife sleeping next to me, and she had no idea I even had the TV and system on. Granted, I had the volume all the way down, but that's as loud as I need it really.
   
  Before I forget, let me say that I own the Wired Mixamp, AD700, DT 880, and Ultrasone PRO 900's. All which I have experience in gaming.
   
  I'm actually quite surprisingly pleased with my PS3 headset. I was considering writing a mini-review comparison either here or in a new thread, if there is enough interest for it. Will it compare to the Mixamp + AD700 or insert audiophile headphone here? No. But again, for $79, and not needing a Mixamp or Dolby Headphone box of some kind, you get _*a lot*_ of functionality and value.
   
  I think Sony has noticed gamers are using products like the Mixamp and our own headphones, and they've given us a very affordable convenience product for those who aren't ready to take the audiophile dive.


----------



## jghost23

Will the lower OHM DT 990s perform worst than the higher ones? Also, my order is placed! I got the PC 360s and the mixamp 5.8 wireless. If I'm not satisfied with the PC 360s I can just return them. But I feel I will be, as my first pair of headphones were the SOny PC official wireless headset..good value.. but SQ isn't great.
   
   
  I was wondering, does anyone know how long it takes for astro to ship? I picked the residential $14 shipping. And I live in the United States. I ask because I don't want to pay 2 day shipping for my headset from amazon if I won't receive my mixamp until next week.
  
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Not if you get the 32 ohm version.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The lower ohm Beyers are just very slightly inferior. They are more versatile in what equipment you use with them though. Better to amp a low ohm properly than underamp the 600ohms.

Telling you, aside from the bass and soundstage, the DT990 Pro 250ohm and 600ohm sounded pretty much the same. The Pro clamps more so the bass was a little stronger and soundstage was very slightly smaller, but positioning was better to me.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> Samson SR850, the supposed king (never heard them myself) of budget headphones, for both immersive and competetive gaming and music. I just bought a pair, hope they're as good as people describe, should be here by the end of the week. I'll post my impressions after I get a chance to hear them and compare to my AD700.


 

  
  Please do post impressions.  And be brutally honest.  I need a cheap headphone I can recommend out to gamer friends, and for $50 they may actually buy them.  I can't convince many friends to buy >$100 headphones for gaming :\ 
   
  People keep recommending those Samsons and it be nice to confirm that they're the real deal and not FOTM.


----------



## chicolom

Well, it seems the DT990/600 has less bass than the pro's, and faster, tighter bass.  That'd be the one I'd want.  I don't want any slow mid-bass up in my soundstage. 
   
  It's weird that you (MLE) think the pros have better positioning then the 600s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Oh well, I don't care - the 600's still have more pros then cons when compared to the Pros.  Haha, more pros then the Pros. 
   
  I think I'll sell the PC360s and get the DT990/600s....I think.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Someone nudge me!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just, I felt the godly positioning in the DT770 Pro 80 was the best... and the 990 Pros give me the same vibe. Must have something to do with the clamp.

If I were to rate positioning:

990 Pros: 10
990/600: 8.5

The 990/600 is literally enough for all forms of gaming. Jack of all trades, with extra fun, master of none. SQ is definitely superior to the PC360, so as long as you can handle the treble (which is a non-issue for DH gaming), its worth it. 

I really wanna try the T70/T70p, but I feel they are overpriced...


----------



## sabzingeur

Well, I exchanged my DT880s for a pair of DT990/600s yesterday evening and tried them with BF3. I got mixed feelings about them. One one hand, the explosions sound really, really impressive, on the other hand, that impressive bass is kinda overkill. In the first flying mission of the single player campaign, there's a part just after taking off when the music kicks in, I fondly remember how inspirational and uplifting it sounded with just normal headphones, but with DT990s the bass is just too much it drowns out everything and that part sounds like a big mess. Meh...


----------



## jghost23

Awesome small review on the Sony PS3 headset. How would you compare it SQ wise, soundstage, and immersion compared to the PC 360+mixamp. I ask because that is the only headset I've tried, the PS3 sony one that is.
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> The Sony PS3 headset actually, I can't say anything bad about. I got one for Christmas, and _*for less than half the cost*_ of a Mixamp + AD700 you get:
> 
> - PS3 + PC compatibility
> - True digital wireless. No clutter like the Wireless Mixamp 5.8
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sabzingeur said:


> Well, I exchanged my DT880s for a pair of DT990/600s yesterday evening and tried them with BF3. I got mixed feelings about them. One one hand, the explosions sound really, really impressive, on the other hand, that impressive bass is kinda overkill. In the first flying mission of the single player campaign, there's a part just after taking off when the music kicks in, I fondly remember how inspirational and uplifting it sounded with just normal headphones, but with DT990s the bass is just too much it drowns out everything and that part sounds like a big mess. Meh...




Hope to god you're not using one of those weird in game presets.

Dunno what you expect. The DT990 is literally like a DT880 EQ-ed for more bass and treble.

Listen to them with more than just battlefield. I dunno how the DT990 can drown out any detail as its bass is one of the very best in terms ofbeing strong, but tight and way from bleeding into details like most bassy cans. Hell, it does a better job than the D7000 in staying away from smothering detail.

It sounds like you have the sound bass boosted already.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Will the lower OHM DT 990s perform worst than the higher ones?


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The lower ohm Beyers are just very slightly inferior. They are more versatile in what equipment you use with them though.


 
   
  Very true, but the performance difference margin is hardly distinguishable (if at all) in music; so in gaming there's no sense in going for 250/600 ohms if an amplifier isn't already part of your setup (or you plan to get an amp for music later).
   
  My DT 880 is 32 ohms and is perfect when plugged directly into the Mixamp.
   
  Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Awesome small review on the Sony PS3 headset. How would you compare it SQ wise, soundstage, and immersion compared to the PC 360+mixamp. I ask because that is the only headset I've tried, the PS3 sony one that is.


 
   
  I have no personal experience with the PC 360, but the closest thing I can compare is the budget king: The AD700.
   
  Clarity and soundstage, the AD700 wipes the floor with the PS3 headset. However, I feel that it can be close to, or equally immersing on some level as for one thing the PS3 headset has over the AD700 is bass.
   
  The isolation is decent which also adds to the immersion factor that open back headphones usually lack if you have others in the room like in the event of a LAN party.
   
  I would definitely recommend the headset to any casual or budget gamers. And for the price, performance, and functionality, Sony's PS3 Wireless Headset gets my Head-Fi stamp of approval.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hope to god you're not using one of those weird in game presets.
> Dunno what you expect. The DT990 is literally like a DT880 EQ-ed for more bass and treble.
> Listen to them with more than just battlefield. I dunno how the DT990 can drown out any detail as its bass is one of the very best in terms ofbeing strong, but tight and way from bleeding into details like most bassy cans. Hell, it does a better job than the D7000 in staying away from smothering detail.
> It sounds like you have the sound bass boosted already.


 


  I tried both with positional 3D settings on and just plain normal stereo settings. Could be my setup though, because I don't have an amp yet. I plugged them directly to the sound card, and they are 600 ohm ones.


----------



## jghost23

Thanks Riku. I appreciate the awesome info and comparisons. I wonder if the PS3 sony headset can provide Surround sound on a PC? It's just the click of a button with the PS3. But the PC won't have that on screen notification. Hmmm.That's funny that the Sony headset has more bass. I guess because of the isolation, like you said. One thing I did struggle with at first was talking into the mic. I was not use to my ears being closed off. I got sort of use to it though. I am definitely looking forward my open PC 360s. It will feel like old times where I can hear my own voice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sabzingeur said:


> I tried both with positional 3D settings on and just plain normal stereo settings. Could be my setup though, because I don't have an amp yet. I plugged them directly to the sound card, and they are 600 ohm ones.




600ohm...no amp.

My mind is full of...

You might wanna fix that, quickly. Ampless, the DT990 has flabby bass.


----------



## Phos

Funny thing about the AD700's: I was running them out of my iPhone, I was holding it in front of me and I locked it and I had the distinct impression that the lock sound came out of the phone.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Just got a pair of Q701's today.  Immediate impression are that they are basically the ad700's but better in every way.  
   
  Driver speed seems a slight step behind my Ortho's.  These things have amazing midbass compared to the AD700's.  Instrument separation is far better on the Q701's.  Sub bass quantity is slightly increased over the AD700's, but the better separation on the q701 makes the bass quantity seem increased overall.  I thought the AD700's had the perfect amount of bass, but this is better.  Not a basshead.  I hated the m50's.  
   
  Will get some gaming in to see how the soundstage is in games.  
   
  Many people find that the q701's sound different than the k701/702's.  I like the sound of these for sure with no burn in, but I doubt that will have any effect.  I believe in brain burn in not driver burn in.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> Just got a pair of Q701's today.  Immediate impression are that they are basically the ad700's but better in every way.
> 
> Driver speed seems a slight step behind my Ortho's.  These things have amazing midbass compared to the AD700's.  Instrument separation is far better on the Q701's.  Sub bass quantity is slightly increased over the AD700's, but the better separation on the q701 makes the bass quantity seem increased overall.  I thought the AD700's had the perfect amount of bass, but this is better.  Not a basshead.  I hated the m50's.
> 
> ...


 

 Q701s are my definite favorite so far.  Compared to AD700s they are darker and MUCH meatier sounding, but they still pull off a large soundstage with great seperation.  A very cool combination.  It's funny, when I had the AD700s, I would EQ them to sound like the Q701s do naturally, boosting the bass/mid-bass and rolling off the treble.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

One thing I notice about the q701's is that I can tell UP and Down much better than I could with AD700's.  
   
  This is all stereo by the way, no mixamp involved.  It's not necessary with these at all. 
   
  If you even remotely like the AD700's this is the only logical upgrade from there.  Better sound and what I consider to be a better soundstage than the vaunted ad700's.  
   
  Just be ready because they need an amp.  I kept the volume at where my AD700's were at.  Plugged these in and didn't hear anything.  Flipped the gain switch to high and turned them up and said ok they are working.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's precisely what I thought about the K701. It was like a jacked up AD700. If anyone has the AD700 and wants the superior version of it, the AKGs are it. I wonder just how close the K701 and Q701 are.


----------



## ducker3

Quick question on headphone gaming - Is there an easy way to have your voice sound in your headphones when using a mic?
   
  I've found for as much as I love my DT770's I have to constantly check to make sure I'm not yelling.
   
  In addition, that I don't really love playing in Dolby while using Ventrilo - as it makes all the people sound ... echoy.
   
  I'm using a Xonar DG - and I'm assuming a little bit that to go Dolby, is to enable the headphones dolby setting via the checkbox.
  (I've only had these can's for less then a week - so still testing things out)
   
  Thanks


----------



## dexvx

I'm thinking about getting the DT990/250 Premium (they're around $250). What kind of portable amplifier would you suggest? I was looking at the Fiio E17 or an E9 (I have an Asus Xonar DX sound card).


----------



## Hailin

I just ordered my HD598's from Razordog should be here Friday or Monday. I hear these opinions on the Q701's I am slightly worried. They sound like my perfect headphone. But I didn't want to spend another 100 bucks for headphones + 150 for an amp. Since I do a ton of chatting. I live in Canada too so everything is price up 100% more then american prices.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





dexvx said:


> I'm thinking about getting the DT990/250 Premium (they're around $250). What kind of portable amplifier would you suggest? I was looking at the Fiio E17 or an E9 (I have an Asus Xonar DX sound card).


 
   
  The E9 is going to have a more potent power output than the E17. However, the E17 is pretty decent in the amp section for being portable and battery operated, but it truly shines as a DAC, which on its own will probably outweigh the better power benefits of the E9 if you had to pick one over the other.
   
  However, in the interest of gaming, the E17's DAC is a waste because you will not get the virtual surround your soundcard will provide. Think of it as a second soundcard. You will have to pick between virtual surround, or pristine stereo.
   
  Many Xonar soundcards do have built-in headphone amplifiers that support up to 300 ohms, so you may not even need an amplifier at all. If yours does, I couldn't recommend spending the extra $100~$140 for an amp for _gaming_ purposes.


----------



## dexvx

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> The E9 is going to have a more potent power output than the E17. However, the E17 is pretty decent in the amp section for being portable and battery operated, but it truly shines as a DAC, which on its own will probably outweigh the better power benefits of the E9 if you had to pick one over the other.
> 
> However, in the interest of gaming, the E17's DAC is a waste because you will not get the virtual surround your soundcard will provide. Think of it as a second soundcard. You will have to pick between virtual surround, or pristine stereo.
> 
> Many Xonar soundcards do have built-in headphone amplifiers that support up to 300 ohms, so you may not even need an amplifier at all. If yours does, I couldn't recommend spending the extra $100~$140 for an amp for _gaming_ purposes.


 


 Hi, thanks for the reply. Xonar DX does not have a head-phone amplifier (at least it does not say on the spec sheet; whereas the Xonar STX does). I do NOT plan on using the E17 DAC on my desktop (correct me if I'm wrong but the Xonar DX is of similar quality). However, I occasionally will use my laptop about 20% of the time.
   
  My question would be if there is a big difference between the E17 and the E9 in terms of being able to drive the DT990/250 Premium.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're NOT going to use the DAC on the E17, you're better off with the E11 than the E17, as it's still portable, and a little better than the E17's amp section. Though if you do plan on using the E17's DAC for the laptop, then I guess it makes sense to get the E17.

The E9 is considerably stronger than the E17, and should be better for the 250ohm Beyers, though because the E9 is pretty much uncolored, you may not notice the difference.

If I were in your shoes, I'd get the E17 first, since a DAC for the laptop is a must, IMHO.

I remember going from my Asus dual-core netbook's onboard soundcard and jumping to the E7. The difference was night and day. For a decent soundcard though, the difference wasn't that big. The E17 would be a clear improvement over the E7 (let alone an onboard soundcard) though, so it would probably be noticeable for you.

I'd order the E17 for myself, but I got some other higher end stuff coming in, making it a moot purchase. If I ever go back to a laptop, I can see myself getting another *trans*portable DAC/AMP combo that is powered by USB. The E17 or whatever successor comes afterwards. For now, my purchases are complete. The D7000 should be coming in next week, and my Audio-GD stuff comes after the Chinese holidays. The wait is killing me.


----------



## Riku540

The E17 should have enough power to drive the DT 990 at 250 ohms. Keep in mind that only the first batch has been shipped, and many people do not yet have it to give first-hand impressions on amplifying power, myself included. But as I stated before the E17 minus the DAC is a waste. If you want portable for cheaper and more power go with the E11.
   
  The E9 has more than enough power, and then some. If power is your only goal, the E9 _will_ deliver.
   
  Personally, I think the E17 has greater value long-term. Especially if your DT 990's will be used for music as well, and on your laptop from time to time. The sound quality will be far superior to your sound card, and you can switch between your desktop and laptop as much as you like, and have the same sound quality and amplification all the time. The DAC in the E17 is invaluable since you don't have one yet, and will be a great source should you decide to invest in a desktop amplifier to go with it, like the E9, which will conveniently let the E17 dock on top of.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I just ordered my HD598's from Razordog should be here Friday or Monday. I hear these opinions on the Q701's I am slightly worried. They sound like my perfect headphone. But I didn't want to spend another 100 bucks for headphones + 150 for an amp. Since I do a ton of chatting. I live in Canada too so everything is price up 100% more then american prices.


 


  Q701s DO NOT need an external amp when used with the mixamp.  The mixamp is enough.  Even when mixing in chat to 65-70%, my master volume is around 60%.
   
  Some people have been surprised and have said they are much easier to drive then standard K70x.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Q701s DO NOT need an external amp when used with the mixamp.  The mixamp is enough.  Even when mixing in chat to 65-70%, my master volume is around 60%.
> 
> Some people have been surprised and have said they are much easier to drive then standard K70x.




That's good to hear, because the K701 was a b*tch to drive.

edit: Got my 5.8's battery pack in today (the PS3 chat cable however wasn't in the package, so I had to email Astro and ask where the eff it was). First thing I did was remove the battery bay from the Rx unit (it snaps off), since the battery pack replaces the battery bay completely. Plugged it in and saw the orange glow, noting that it's charging. Something I wish I saw with the Eneloops. Oh well. 

I also moved some things around today. First was moving the E9 close to my monitor, removing the E7 from dock position, and hooking it up via the Fiio L7 lod cable to the E9's line in (I think it looks more legit undocked, and it's also just ever so slightly warmer which helps the DT990s. It's also behaving better now that it's not docked... I think my dock was messing up because I was getting weird distortions). I moved the PC further away to leave an open space for where I'm gonna stack the C-2.2 and NFB 3.1 in a few weeks. 

Once I get those new two pieces in, I will be comparing: 

E7+E9
E7+C-2.2
NFB 3.1+E9
NFB 3.1+C-2.2 via RCA (with Earth OP-amps)
NFB 3.1+C-2.2 via ACSS (which is known to be superior to the op-amps).

That's gonna take me some time.

I will of course be also doing: 

Mixamp+E9
Mixamp+C-2.2

To see how it stacks up for gaming.


BTW guys, I know this is probably moot for a lot of you, I completely forgot that Fiio sells the D3, which is a simple optical/coaxial to RCA DAC (goes for $28 on Amazon). It's JUST a DAC without an amp section, which supposedly sounds better than the E7's DAC portion. So the D3+E9 may be a better combo than the E7+E9, though the E10+E9 or E17+E9 will still be better (but more expensive).

http://headfonics.com/2011/09/fiio-d3-dac-its-a-keeper/

Just throwing that out there.


----------



## Hailin

So it looks like I am not going to get the HD598 at all. A train derailed in Wolf Point MT and my headphones are part of it. /sigh. I am going to have to refuse them now cause god knows what UPS will send to me.
   
  Update: Well I talked to Brian @ Razordog and he walked me through everything. So all is fine. If anything at all has been damaged he is going to cover all the shipping return costs. Razordog has been a total pleasure to deal with.


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





hailin said:


> So it looks like I am not going to get the HD598 at all. A train derailed in Wolf Point MT and my headphones are part of it. /sigh. I am going to have to refuse them now cause god knows what UPS will send to me.


 


  trains derail all the time. It just means they went off track. It doesnt mean they wrecked. You're package is fine. It will just be late


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





weez82 said:


> trains derail all the time. It just means they went off track. It doesnt mean they wrecked. You're package is fine. It will just be late


 


 I have never ordered anything from the US before through UPS and I have been truly confused by this whole experience. UPS tracking is one of the worst I have ever experienced. My package has been all over the place in the computers. So irritating! Only to find out it is probably still back at the original place.
   
  So far then the tally is: Razordog Deals - 1, UPS - 0, Me -


----------



## Eric_C

All this talk of E17 vs E9, but isn't the E9 a desktop amp? i.e. it's not portable at all, it runs off a wall wart?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Well, it seems the DT990/600 has less bass than the pro's, and faster, tighter bass.  That'd be the one I'd want.  I don't want any slow mid-bass up in my soundstage.
> 
> It's weird that you (MLE) think the pros have better positioning then the 600s
> 
> ...


 

 Get the DT990/600! Best 250$ I've ever spent...
   
  Hooked 'em up to the E9/DSS and I'm playing Uncharted 3 right now. Well, it's totally blowing my mind. No hiss, no weird distortion, just had to lower the DSS bass boost, because it didn't sound right at first, but it's perfect now.
  The HD555 I used before are a joke in comparison, they sounded "weird" in some scenes, but I have to admit that they're still SLIGHTLY better when it comes to positioning...
  With the 990 I feel like I'm really there with Nate and Sully, it's just that awesome. Actually, they are so good I think they're wasted to use for gaming only. And so, when I'm not playing, I hook 'em to my PC (E9+E7) and listen to my lossless music collection. I'm in total awe. Never heard anything like this before.
   
  @Mad Lust Envy
  Can't wait to read your thoughts/comparison on the new gears! By the way, are you going to keep the Beyer? Just curious to know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm keeping them.

You really need some really high quality files to play with them, because anything remotely questionable will sound pretty bad off them. I realize that they sound fantastic off the E9, and it was my dock or E7 that is messing with the SQ. Now that I moved the E7 to feed the signal to the line in, the DT990 is reminding me why I loved them in the first place.

I can only imagine how great they'll sound off the Audio GD equipment.

And yes, I totally believe you when you say it is dead silent even with the DSS. That's a main reason why such a high ohm value is beneficial. Keeps that noise floor completely silent. Even with the 5.8 near max, and the E9 amping to loud levels, there is zero hiss/noise.

My biggest grip with them (and all the popular Beyers), is the stupid mechanism to extend/retract the cups. Its stupid hard to extend them while wearing them, but if you do it while not wearing them, its incredibly loose and the 'teeth' don't hold the cups in place unless you hold it a certain way. Just...Beyerdynamic built such a sturdy design overall, but missed the mark there.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 600ohm...no amp.
> My mind is full of...
> You might wanna fix that, quickly. Ampless, the DT990 has flabby bass.


 


  So it was my setup then. I'm thinking of getting the Little Dot Mk III as an amp, hooking it to the sound card through 3.5mm to RCA cables (to retain CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphones). Is it a good choice?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's one of the amps well known to pair up with the Beyers very well. Should be great, though remember, hooking it up from the soundcard's 3.5mm jack isn't ideal for anything but gaming, so don't judge the DT990 harshly until you hook them up to a proper dac in the future.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's one of the amps well known to pair up with the Beyers very well. Should be great, though remember, hooking it up from the soundcard's 3.5mm jack isn't ideal for anything but gaming, so don't judge the DT990 harshly until you hook them up to a proper dac in the future.


 


  In that case which DAC do you suggest? I've read that, different from DH, CMSS-3D can be transmitted through S/PDIF, and my sound card had S/PDIF out.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My biggest grip with them (and all the popular Beyers), is the stupid mechanism to extend/retract the cups. Its stupid hard to extend them while wearing them, but if you do it while not wearing them, its incredibly loose and the 'teeth' don't hold the cups in place unless you hold it a certain way. Just...Beyerdynamic built such a sturdy design overall, but missed the mark there.


 

  
  I wholeheartedly agree with that and I couldn't have said it any better.
   
   
  What troubles me now, is that I have my PC and console in different rooms and I have to unplug and hook all up again everytime...
  I'm considering of buying a new headphone because of that, but I dunno...I want to think about this one carefully considering I don't have much to spend. Ugh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What's your budget? A cheap and good DAC is the Fiio E10. For higher end, the Schiit Bifrost, HRT Music Streamer II...


----------



## FarKim

Well, my Xonar DG turned up.
  I installed and listened to some beats (that's what all the groovy kids are saying) on the HD201's I use at work and I'm absolutely astounded how good they sound and how much more bass I get out of them. I usually run them on my laptop.
   
  I will be playing some BF3 tonight with them.
  Can anyone tell me the best DH setting to use?
  I.e. 'Reference Room', 'Livelier Room' or 'Larger Room'.
  Is there any problem running them on 'Exciter Mode' for headsets > 64 ohms with the HD201's?
   
  Also, how much better are the CAL's than the HD201's?
   
  I can see me falling into a bottomless pit of audio moneyless doom given how much better things may sound with some AKG's or Beyer's.


----------



## sabzingeur

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What's your budget? A cheap and good DAC is the Fiio E10. For higher end, the Schiit Bifrost, HRT Music Streamer II...


 
  I'm thinking of something in the range of $250 with S/PDIF in. With further research, however, I've just found the Asus Xonar Essence STX which is a DAC & 600ohm headphone package that has Dolby Headphones, of course, I except the result could not be as phenomenal as descrete DAC and Tubeamp, but just maybe, for now, that's a really viable option.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can't quote well on my phone, but some replies:

The Asus Essence STX would be the soundcard I'd get. The amp section is comparable to the E9 (if not the same), meaning it has some good power to drive most headphones good to well. I don't game on PC, so it doesn't make sense to me to get a good soundcard over an external DAC that I can use with other sources and not just the PC.

As for Dolby Headphone settings, I imagine the middle setting is the best, as its the most common setting on amps like the Mixamp. The other too are to small/large in terms of virtual space, FWIH.

As for HD201 vs CAL... the CAL blows the HD201 away in terms of SQ and comfort. If you have the money, the CAL is a no brainer. The only things the HD201 has over it is that its pretty evenly balanced and neutral sounding, while the CAL has emphasized bass and are warmer. The leap in sound quality is pretty significant.

edit: Damn, I guess it's a pain in the ass to use the E7 via LOD. I'm getting interference from whatever is plugged into the RCA input on the E9, as well as the E7's LOD being a bit finicky in that just touching it a little will cause some noticeable hum (louder than the Lyr's hum). I guess I'll leave it as a backup. Back to docking the E7.

I'm gonna go ahead and buy the Fiio D3 DAC (hell it's just $28). Not for use with my audio setup, but for my TV to soundbar. My TV (Panasonic 65ST30) only has an optical out, and my Vizio soundbar has a broken optical in, but two working RCA inputs (it's only a 2 channel soundbar anyway). It will drastically cut down on cable clutter (I have 4 sources currently switching around on my soundbar: PS3, 360, PS2, PC through a long 15ft RCA which suuuucks). With the D3, I can just run the HDMI and other cables directly to the TV, and just one optical from the the D3; to the soundbar. I also have the bonus of being able to use the D3 for testing against the E7. The D3 is supposedly better, so it'll be interesting to see. I don't wanna spend money on the E10, when I only need a DAC, not an amp. 

Just wanna make sure that Micca is selling the newer D3 with gold inputs/output.


----------



## Personnel Jezuz

Thought this might help a gamer out somewhere, I have a pair of audio technica AD700's for sale in the UK. Drop me a line if you're interested.


----------



## khaine1711

Completely irrelevant but I couldn't help asking
   
  How's the dt990 on C2.2?
  Also I see you have the earth opamp, does that means the ACSS between NFB3.1 -> C2.2  is worse than RCA from 3.1 -> C2.2.?
   
  Due to lunar new year, I couldnt audition the C2.2 till 2-3 weeks later maybe. Just wanna get some inputs so I would know something to expect 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. (Last audition with Rs1i wasnt exactly a "mind-blowing" experience for me)
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> -snip-


----------



## jghost23

Sounds amazing. I want that feeling. Before I was only interested in Call of Duty, but with sound like that I'll pick up Skyrim, uncharted series, and anything else with great story lines! What is your recommended setup so I can replicate please? Include for console and PC.
  
  Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Get the DT990/600! Best 250$ I've ever spent...
> 
> Hooked 'em up to the E9/DSS and I'm playing Uncharted 3 right now. Well, it's totally blowing my mind. No hiss, no weird distortion, just had to lower the DSS bass boost, because it didn't sound right at first, but it's perfect now.
> The HD555 I used before are a joke in comparison, they sounded "weird" in some scenes, but I have to admit that they're still SLIGHTLY better when it comes to positioning...
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

khaine1711 said:


> Completely irrelevant but I couldn't help asking
> 
> How's the dt990 on C2.2?
> Also I see you have the earth opamp, does that means the ACSS between NFB3.1 -> C2.2  is worse than RCA from 3.1 -> C2.2.?
> ...




I myself haven't received my Audio-GD equipment yet. I ordered it just before Chinese holidays. I probably won't be getting the stuff until mid to late Feb.

I expect the NFB 3.1 to C-2.2 via ACSS to be noticeably superior to the RCA method.

I ordered Earth op-amps mostly because of things I will be be hooking up via RCA only (Mixamp w/ 3.5mm to RCA cable, MP3 player, etc.). I also wanna see how different a neutral op-amp (Earth) will compare to a very neutral connection (ACSS) via personal A/B testing.

I expect the C-2.2 to REALLY shine for both my main cans.

It will give the D7000 a whopping 4.5 watts@25ohm, and the DT990/600 200mw@600ohm, which I should notice compared to the weaker E9 which does less than a 1watt at 250hm, and 80mw@600ohm, and also the bad 10ohm output impedance (where the C-2.2 is 1.5ohm). Wish I still had the Lyr to compare, but I have no doubt the SS sound appeals to me more.

I wonder if the C-2.2 or NFB 3.1 come with a pair of mono cables, since the left/right are so far apart. None of my RCA cables separate that far. I guess I'll have to order from Monoprice if not. edit: Nvm, I have some monoprice RCAs I don't use that I can just split....


----------



## theiron

I signed up just thank everyone here for the wealth of information. I was using a set of Logitech 930's and then moved to a set of Sennheiser HD448's. I've been in the market for a better set of headphones and based on these forums and reviews tried the ATH-AD700 and they were nice but the comfort wasn't all I was hoping for, I tried the rubber band trick but it didn't help too much. Sound wise they were fantastic, positional audio in BF3 was more then I was expecting but as many have said the bass really wasn't there. Needless to say I returned them and I will be receiving a set of Sennheiser HD598's tomorrow, pairing these with a Xonar DG in my PC and hoping for some good sound. Crossing my fingers this turns out as awesome as I'm hoping it does.
   
  Anyways, not much of a true audiophile but can definitely understand and respect a nice set of headphones. If my hobby was this, much like a number of people here, I would probably have a ton of headphones as well. My true hobby is hockey and computers so I have a ton of stuff on that side.
   
  Down the road I plan on getting a wireless mixamp for TV/Movie viewing and video gaming on my television.
   
  Thanks again MLE for the awesome thread and breakdowns.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So what games are you guys looking forward to in the upcoming months? I haven't been playing much of anything lately, but soon there's a crapton I wanna play...

Final Fantasy XIII-2
SSX (OMG, I want this SO bad!)
DMC
Devil May Cry HD Collection
Mass Effect 3
Tales of Graces F

I have a feeling SSX and Mass Effect 3 are gonna sound amazing with DH and immersive cans.


----------



## autoteleology

I have a copy of Skyrim simply collecting dust. I should probably get on that at some point.
   
  As a side note, I have the money to buy the Mixamp Pro OR the HD598. I currently own the PRO700mk2, which are probably the worst headphones for gaming, ever (think M50, but with the sub-bass of the XB700).
   
  What should I buy first?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> I have a copy of Skyrim simply collecting dust. I should probably get on that at some point.
> As a side note, I have the money to buy the Mixamp Pro OR the HD598. I currently own the PRO700mk2, which are probably the worst headphones for gaming, ever (think M50, but with the sub-bass of the XB700).
> What should I buy first?


 

 Which gaming platform is this for?


----------



## Naingolann

Having played (and enjoyed) the first one already, I'm going to get XIII-2 for sure and probably Asura's Wrath plus the MGS HD collection too. What I'm really looking forward to playing is Ni no Kuni. Not yet sold on SSX...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you seen the latest gameplay runs of SSX? Not the trailer, but actual gameplay... it looks freaking amazing, and reminds me of SSX3, which is undoubtedly the best snowboarding game, EVAR. I won't even debate this. 

Poor Ni No Kuni. It flopped in Japan... I don't have much hopes for it selling well, but I do know it's gonna be a fantastic game. I do want it.

I was somewhat meh with FFXIII, but there can never be enough JRPGs here, so it's a must buy. I might get Hyperdimension Neptunia MK. 2, if they made it actually fun to play. The first had promise in everything but actual gameplay. 

OMG, Asura's Wrath. I forgot! I loved the demo. I have a feeling it's going to become a cult classic, though I don't see it selling well. Pretty much the only games that sell well nowadays are established franchises, and the very rare gems.


----------



## Riku540

Borderlands 2, but I know you won't get it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Games I should play in the coming months? How about I start clearing out my backlog of games I've bought during numerous sales on Steam and elsewhere, especially finishing those I took a break on while in the middle of completing them? It is my new year's resolution, after all.
   
  -The Elder Scrolls III/IV/V (I basically got frustrated with losing my Morrowind and Oblivion saves over the years due to forgetting to back them up during reformats, but this could give me a chance to make better character generation choices. Skyrim doesn't have that excuse, though.)
  -Red Faction: Guerrilla
  -Dead Space 1/2
  -Bioshock
  -Mass Effect
  -GTA IV
  -L.A. Noire
  -Psychonauts
  -Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
  -Thief 1/2/Deadly Shadows
  -The Witcher
  -Zeno Clash
   
  That's just a small subset of games, at that.


----------



## chicolom

It's time to retire my PC360s.  Insert plug:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/591675/sennheiser-pc360-g4me-headset
   
  Just been using the Q701s full time now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes sense. I'm tempted on doing the same, but I bastardized the top headband padding... my stepfather had the bright idea to hot glue the pad where it ripped. Its a little hard there now, though I don't feel it. If I sold mine, it'd be at a significant loss... unless I can somehow rip it all off and get a replacement from Sennheiser. I should contact them and get a quote.


----------



## jghost23

Resident evil : Operation Raccon City, and Resident Evil 6!
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So what games are you guys looking forward to in the upcoming months? I haven't been playing much of anything lately, but soon there's a crapton I wanna play...
> Final Fantasy XIII-2
> SSX (OMG, I want this SO bad!)
> DMC
> ...


----------



## jghost23

You don't miss your mic?
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It's time to retire my PC360s.  Insert plug:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/591675/sennheiser-pc360-g4me-headset
> 
> Just been using the Q701s full time now.


----------



## jghost23

You guys make me want to return my PC 360s before I even receive them in the mail lol. Maybe I should and just get some nice cans like the Q701s or DT 990s and do a mod mic. Can't be that difficult.. and the price is nearly the same as the PC 360s.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> You don't miss your mic?


 


  I'm using this > http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, ther reason I'd consider it is because I use a mic maybe less than 1% of the time I play games. I'm not very social. I'd rather just use my good headphones and throw on the DX clip on mic on those rare times when I do chat.

The PC360 is a beast, make no mistake. Just, they aren't getting any use with me.


----------



## jghost23

Looks awesome! Why hasn't anyone posted about this before? It looks so easy!
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm using this > http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Looks awesome! Why hasn't anyone posted about this before? It looks so easy!


 
   
  They have.  I also asked MLE to put in the first post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Did you? I saw no such thing! Or maybe I was just being lazy. 

I'll get on that when I get home.

If people don't mind the extra wire and the lack of easy mutable mic on the PC360, I would easily recommend the HD598 with that mic.


----------



## jghost23

I can try them (PC360s) out for like 2 weeks and then I'll probably return them and do the clip on mic with something like the Q701s or the DT 990s/600. Would I need another amp on top of the mixamp to push either of those headphones? And which would you recommend out of those 2?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, ther reason I'd consider it is because I use a mic maybe less than 1% of the time I play games. I'm not very social. I'd rather just use my good headphones and throw on the DX clip on mic on those rare times when I do chat.
> The PC360 is a beast, make no mistake. Just, they aren't getting any use with me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Both those cans need a pretty good amp in addition to the Mixamp, which is why I prefer the hassle free nature of the PC360 in those situations. You might get away with using the HD598 or Q701 without an extra amp, but I felt that they (K701 in my case) both were struggling just off the Mixamp when chat was mixed in.

The DT990 is my choice overall, though for competitive gaming, the AKG mops the floor with the Beyers.

I really wish the DT880 performed better with DH, because they would be my #1 choice for those who want a can that does everything well.

Half tempted on getting the DT880 Pros and hoping they improve in DH positioning,the way the other Pro Beyers did over the Premiums. I'm too broke to splurge right now.


----------



## jghost23

Could you link an amp from amazon you think I would need in addition to power the HD598/Q701s/DT990s? And I'm looking for a can that can do everything fairly well. Basically PC 360s with more immersion I guess. Also, can I run another amp even if I'm using a wireless mixamp and keep my wireless capabilities?
  
  EDIT: I noticed you said the AKGs are better for competitive gaming compared to the DT990s? So would you say they have decent soundstage and immersion?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Both those cans need a pretty good amp in addition to the Mixamp, which is why I prefer the hassle free nature of the PC360 in those situations. You might get away with using the HD598 or Q701 without an extra amp, but I felt that they (K701 in my case) both were struggling just off the Mixamp when chat was mixed in.
> The DT990 is my choice overall, though for competitive gaming, the AKG mops the floor with the Beyers.
> I really wish the DT880 performed better with DH, because they would be my #1 choice for those who want a can that does everything well.
> Half tempted on getting the DT880 Pros and hoping they improve in DH positioning,the way the other Pro Beyers did over the Premiums. I'm too broke to splurge right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT880s would be ideal for you on paper. They are well balanced and blow the PC360 away in quality, but they don't have as big a soundstage (but still big), and don't have the positioning...

An amp? How much can you afford?

I would go...

E9 - $100
Matrix M Stage - $250


AKG vs Beyer.... it depends... the Beyers are more fun, the AKGs are competitive and have a larger soundstage and better positioning. They are more analytical.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

To me the AKG Q701's are the AD700's with better driver speed, better seperation, and a more full lower end.  Many people report they have more bass than the K701's, but I can't confirm that because I've never heard them.  
   
  All I know is that these things are midbass monsters.  The midbass frequencies blow my mind coming from the AD700's.  The sub bass is there, but it doesn't shake your head.  You can definitely hear it though.  BF3 sounds amazing on these headphones.  
   
  First round I played with them I was standing there looking straight ahead and thought that it sounded like a helicopter was above me and to the front.  I looked up a little expecting to see one and there was nothing there.  Looked up a little more and realized that it was there and that these things have amazing soundstage.  The other thing I really really enjoy with the q701's is that they lack the AD700's dreaded creaking.  AD700's are an amazing headphone for the money, but the build quality gives you some creaking noises when you are wearing them.  
   
  All of my assessments are done without the mixamp.  These things don't require the mixamp to give you perfect positional audio.  Use the money you would spend on the mixamp and get a decent amp for them like the FiiO e9, or a good DAC.  
   
  I'm rocking HRT Music Streamer II+>FiiO e9> White q701's (white obviously sounds better than the other colors).  I'm primarily a PC gamer, so not everyone will be able to do it like me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't agree. Even a headphone with limitless soundstage still doesn't do what the Mixamp does. The K701 was godly with the Mixamp. God mode engaged.

I do agree that they were like the fuller, better, AD700.


----------



## jghost23

I could probably only afford the E9 for 100. Will that provide enough power combined with the mixamp for either of those headphones? I'm looking for more fun than the PC 360, but I do not want to sacrifice too much soundstage/positioning... Sounds like I should get the AKGs? AKGs vs PC 360 for fun/immersion.. how would you compare?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT880s would be ideal for you on paper. They are well balanced and blow the PC360 away in quality, but they don't have as big a soundstage (but still big), and don't have the positioning...
> An amp? How much can you afford?
> I would go...
> E9 - $100
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I found the K701 to be about as fun as the PC360, though a little bit dryer and analytical. The E9 would definitely have enough power for them, but they scale with better amping, and would pair up better with tube amps. I think with a warmer amp, the K701 would be a large step up from the PC360. With the E9, the K701 will be very analytical. I'm assuming the Q701 is indeed warmer, and would probably be on par with the PC360 for fun (if not more so), and spank the hell out of them for everything else.

So if you want really high quality audio and positioning, the Q701 would be it. Get it with the E9, should work well. Then later on, invest in a good tube amp.


----------



## jghost23

Correct me if I'm wrong but the AKG sound like what you just mentioned a all round  better AD700, and the DT990s seem to have a little more immersion/bass? But lack the positioning the AKGs have? If that's true I think the AKGs would fit me better. I want immersion and competitiveness
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't agree. Even a headphone with limitless soundstage still doesn't do what the Mixamp does. The K701 was godly with the Mixamp. God mode engaged.
> I do agree that they were like the fuller, better, AD700.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jghost23 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the AKG sound like what you just mentioned a all round  better AD700, and the DT990s seem to have a little more immersion/bass? But lack the positioning the AKGs have? If that's true I think the AKGs would fit me better. I want immersion and competitiveness




Read my post above, I edited it.

Yes, the Q701 seems to be what you should get. Keep in mind, I dunno how different they are from the K701, which is what *I* tested and rated.


----------



## jghost23

Well, I don't want something more analytical, I want something that is just as analytical as the PC 360s, but more immersive.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I found the K701 to be about as fun as the PC360, though a little bit dryer and analytical. The E9 would definitely have enough power for them, but they scale with better amping, and would pair up better with tube amps. I think with a warmer amp, the K701 would be a large step up from the PC360. With the E9, the K701 will be very analytical. I'm assuming the Q701 is indeed warmer, and would probably be on par with the PC360 for fun (if not more so), and spank the hell out of them for everything else.
> So if you want really high quality audio and positioning, the Q701 would be it. Get it with the E9, should work well. Then later on, invest in a good tube amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, like I said, the Q701 is supposedly warmer and more bassy than the K701. That would put it ahead of the PC360.

Honestly if I had a choice based off sound alone, the K701 walks all over the PC360 no matter what I'd use them for. I would believe the Q701 to be even better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mentioned this prior to your arrival here, I only got rid of the K701 because they were hard to drive, so I went to the HD598 which are to me, inferior, but easier to drive. Then I changed them for the even more inferior PC360 because of the practicality.

Sorry for the double post.


----------



## jghost23

Lol no problem. I appreciate your replies. I'm probably driving you nuts with all the questions. So I basically won't get the benefits of the AKG's Q70s if I don't get that $250 amp or at least an amp better than the E9 (on top of the mixamp of course). I'm curious how my wireless would work... with an additional amp. I assume it would just connect to the RX piece.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I mentioned this prior to your arrival here, I only got rid of the K701 because they were hard to drive, so I went to the HD598 which are to me, inferior, but easier to drive. Then I changed them for the even more inferior PC360 because of the practicality.
> Sorry for the double post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, the Q701 with the E9 would probably be close to the same as the K701 with a warm amp. And yes, the Rx Unit's 3.5mm out to the amp's line in.


----------



## jghost23

Alright then. Sexy Avy. I should have the PC 360s wednesday so I'll let you know how they sound to me. Thanks for all your information thus far.


----------



## rabidgamer

So, first impressions of the DT 770 Pro 80s w/ the mixamp... and I'm not yet sure what to think lol, I was expecting muddy and I got it, yet to properly test them but tried them with a few demo's yesterday + a BF3 mission and they were good, but once everything got going the excellent positioning went out the window. Still got to properly test them out though.
   
  I dunno what it is, with every headphone I've bought since the AD700s I've just not been as happy as I was with them lol, now I'm hearing the Q701s are basically better AD700s which has definitely peaked my interest, just over here they cost $432 (£278) and for a student that is a lot of money, then again my 21st birthday is coming up... lol
   
  I'll stick with the DT 770s and give a bit more of a go, hopefully I'll fall in love with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My D7000 comes in on Monday, wooooot.

rabidgamer, I warned of the muddiness... 

But give them a chance. With the right games, they sound incredible.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, about the modmic- it was in a PM a couple months ago.  Maybe it didn't go through.
   
  I said a page or two ago that the* Q701 doesn't need an external amp *when used with the mixamp.  If people are shopping for Q701s for gaming, I would wait on the amp (for music, bring on the DAC/amp).  They perform like you would expect 62ohm headphone to IMO.  The K70x is probably different.
   
  I have some DT990/600s coming soon, so I can compare them with the Q701.  I'm expecting a sidegrade, a "V" response vs the flatter Qs, and also some soundstage differences.  If they're like the DT880s, they will probably have more soundstage depth than the Qs.  I remember the DT880s having good depth.  Qs will probably have more width and taller soundstage. 
   
  The Q701 are definitely warmer and bassier than the PC360s.  I don't think the Q's are necessarily better than the PC360s for competitive gaming though - same for AD700s.  Positioning on the PC360s is great (on par with the Qs), and PC360s have more high and upper mid emphasis.  The whole soundstage is shifted closer on the Qs, and shifted farther back on PC360s and AD700s.  Like the Qs do better close soundstage, while the other two aren't as good at close, but have _slightly_ farther sounding soundstage instead.  I think the Qs may have better vertical soundstage positioning.  The Q's image objects to be bigger.  They are "taller" sounding than either PC360 or AD700.  PC360s is the shortest of the three, AD700 is taller, and Q701 is the tallest I've tried. 
   
  I mainly just find the Q701 sound sig more enjoyable. 
   
  Q701s sound different than AD700s.  Soundstage is a little smaller on the Q's (although better height and close soundstage), and positioning isn't quite as good.  You would probably be suprised at how warm/dark they are coming from AD700s.  It takes a bit getting used to, but then they sound fine.  This happens anytime you switch from a cold to dark headphone, but the AD700s are REALLY cold and have lots of treble emphasis.  I can't take the AD700's sound for some games, it's too bright/metallic.  The sub and mid bass on the Q's is very welcome. 
   
   
  I'm still tempted to try some K70x and see if they're different.  If the DT990s don't work out (which is quite possible due to the ear cups), I will probably swap them for some K70x and compare them.  I would expect them to be slightly colder/leaner with slightly larger soundstage.  Even if the differences were considered improvements (which they may not be), the K70x would probably require another amp - which the Q's dont....  :\


----------



## chicolom

This thread just past its one year anniversary a couple days ago


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?


 
   
  It's been discussed to death throughout this thread and even before this thread's existence that Dolby Headphone is greatly superior to both CMSS-3D and stereo.
   
  Nobody says you have to take our word for it, but there wouldn't be much merit or credibility to this thread, nor hundreds of people who can vouch for it here.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Does dolby headphone sound as bad as cmss-3d? I don't mean to sound like a troll but if you're concerned with audio quality to the point of spending several hundred dollars on headphones then why would you use an audio processing technique that butchers sound quality as much as cmss-3d does. To top it off don't most games do a pretty good job with positional cues in stereo mode?


 

 They sound similar to me (tested with JVC/Victor SU-DH1 fed via X-Fi Titanium HD with Dolby Digital Live turned on) in games with software audio engines, though in games that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL, it's not even close. Virtual 7.1 can't match a full 3D binaural sound space.
   
  Stereo mode in games only provides left-to-right panning to my ears. There's no good sense of front or rear, let alone high and low. Needless to say, I don't like that at all. However, some people are willing to play in pure stereo just because they can't take the sound quality hit, and that's fine. Everyone can game their own way without forcing their tastes on everyone else; it's all just suggestion.
   
  Unfortunately, I haven't found a binaural surround filter that provides the positional advantages without muffling the sound so much, but I can live with CMSS-3D Headphone for now. Whatever the case, Creative needs more competition, but their biggest competitors (Aureal and Sensaura) got bought out (which is likely why Creative even has CMSS-3D Headphone in the first place), and now PC gaming audio has taken a turn for the worse as developers worked around Creative in a way I never expected, that being software-driven audio with all the attention on 7.1 and no binaural mixing options given for us headphone users.
   
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> It's been discussed to death throughout this thread and even before this thread's existence that Dolby Headphone is greatly superior to both CMSS-3D and stereo.
> 
> Nobody says you have to take our word for it, but there wouldn't be much merit or credibility to this thread, nor hundreds of people who can vouch for it here.


 
   
  Then why is my experience the exact opposite of that? Dolby Headphone provides less sense of distance and no sense of height whatsoever in DirectSound3D and OpenAL titles, because it's only presenting virtual 7.1 instead of the full binaural 3D sound those games can offer, and which CMSS-3D Headphone willingly taps into. I can't think of any other explanation. If DH treated every sound source in those games as an individual speaker located anywhere in 3D space, maybe things would be different and possibly in DH's favor.
   
  In games that downmix all the sound to 7.1 anyway (thank Microsoft's new, inferior XAudio2 + X3DAudio API for that, along with newer versions of FMOD enforcing software mixing), I can't tell enough of a difference to vote one way or the other, though these games already sound worse than those that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL in terms of positioning anyway.
   
  If you ask me, the reason why Dolby Headphone is the technology of choice here is simple: Mad Lust Envy is a console-only gamer. CMSS-3D Headphone is used on PC sound cards for PC games, not for products geared toward consoles. By contrast, several DAC/DSP devices are floating around that offer Dolby Headphone for console gamers. Which one do you think he'll use?
   
  Anyway, this thread is at least useful for finding out which headphones work well with either technology. If it works well with DH, it works well with CMSS-3D too.


----------



## Rebel975

Gaming in pure stereo is horrible. Hard left/right pans when you turn your character... ugh. I'll take a slight SQ hit for much better positioning.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Then why is my experience the exact opposite of that?


 
   
  As far as DH vs. CMSS-3D goes, to each his own I guess.
   
  My primary goal was defending virtual surround's benefits over stereo, in which many here complained CMSS-3D didn't quite cut it, but picking up an Astro Mixamp was an entirely different experience. But not everyone will reach the same conclusion.
   
  So my point is, why do we invest money in virtual surround equipment? Because most of us in this thread _do_ find it to be more accurate and beneficial than stereo. Why would we invest money in something we personally don't believe in?


----------



## livingplastic

Here is my deal: I want the best gaming / music headphone setup on a Windows 7 PC. I'm looking at this as a decade long or more investment and my budget for this is quite good, but I don't like spending my money so I would like to be a little frugal but not too frugal that I would miss something for just a couple hundred dollars for the next decade or more. 
   
  I have pretty much decided on the Beyerdynamic _DT 990_ 600 ohm headphones and acquiring and modding a used Sennheiser HD 555 for a second option to switch to now and then.
  Right now I have an old Razer Barracuda sound card that takes away fps but works "ok" otherwise. I would like a new sound card.
   
  I have been looking at the Asus Xonar St PCI sound card and see it has a built in headphone amp rated for 80mw on a 600ohm load. The Dt990 have a 100mw max to my understanding. It looks as tho that sound card would drive the DT990 pretty well. Also the new Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus sound card is set to be released "soon" I think and seems to have upgraded features.
   
  My Questions: Would the Dt 990 and the xonar sound card be enough? Do I need a desktop amplifier? If so should it be a Schiit or a self built like the SOHA 2 or a Bijou? Do I need the Mix Amp if I use a sound card? If so is the astro the right choice? Is the asus xonar line the correct choice for the sound card?
   
  Also for those of you that game from a console you may want to check out the Asus ThunderFX it seems like this does what the mix amp does but with a built in headphone amp. I'm really confused by this mix amp. I think that is where I'm confused the most and then amplifiers but I'm not real sure on the sound card either.
   
  Thank you for reading my questions.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> Here is my deal: I want the best gaming / music headphone setup on a Windows 7 PC. I'm looking at this as a decade long or more investment and my budget for this is quite good, but I don't like spending my money so I would like to be a little frugal but not too frugal that I would miss something for just a couple hundred dollars for the next decade or more.
> 
> I have pretty much decided on the Beyerdynamic _DT 990_ 600 ohm headphones and acquiring and modding a used Sennheiser HD 555 for a second option to switch to now and then.
> Right now I have an old Razer Barracuda sound card that takes away fps but works "ok" otherwise. I would like a new sound card.
> ...


 
   
  If you get the DT 990 _600 ohm_ you probably will need a separate desktop amplifier. Even with built in amplifiers, nothing can ever substitute for a truly dedicated desktop amp. Any solid state will do; E9, Asgard, I wouldn't go overboard for the sake of gaming though. Honestly I would not go this route unless you plan to use this rig for music too. Otherwise, go for 250 or 32 ohm; the difference is hardly audible if audible at all. My recommendation would be different if the 600 ohm version was clearly superior to the other models, but in this case you really have to A/B them carefully.
   
  If you get a sound card you will not need a Mixamp, as the Mixamp in a PC configuration _is_ the sound card.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Slight, the sound is completely muffled with cmss3d. How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming? This is a forum where the mantra on the AD700 is that its no good for immersive single player gaming due to its lack of bass. I'll say this, my AD700 in pure stereo sounds better than my HD598 (which I love) with cmss3d. I'm just trying to understand where people draw the line.
   
  I agree with the hard pan left to right in too many games but imo its the lesser of two evils. In the time that I played around with THX tru-studio on my titanium hd it seemed like a better compromise. 
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Gaming in pure stereo is horrible. Hard left/right pans when you turn your character... ugh. I'll take a slight SQ hit for much better positioning.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming?


 
   
  While not directed at me, my personal experience with DH, not CMSS-3D yes the fidelity of the sound goes down a bit but the positional accuracy greatly outweighs the slight drop in detail.
   
  Again, this is _gaming_, not music. In the competitive sense,. _where_ bullets and footsteps are coming from is far more critical information to the player, than _how_ good bullets and footsteps sound.
   
  And just for clarification, Dolby Headphone and CMSS-3D are completely different technologies, which as expected produce different results. You can't compare apples to oranges and get accurate data.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music. In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d. Another example is the wildly popular Skyrim. If I'm in the mountains of Skyrim it shouldn't sound like I'm in a basement. To me that sounds ridiculous. Even on the "competitive scene" not all competitive games require footstep placement like wow, SC2, LoL, ect. If you don't mind the hit in SQ and competitive accuracy is all that matters then why would you need any more than the AD700 or A700? Like I said I'm just trying to understand the line. 
   
   
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> While not directed at me, my personal experience with DH, not CMSS-3D yes the fidelity of the sound goes down a bit but the positional accuracy greatly outweighs the slight drop in detail.
> 
> Again, this is _gaming_, not music. In the competitive sense,. _where_ bullets and footsteps are coming from is far more critical information to the player, than _how_ good bullets and footsteps sound.
> 
> And just for clarification, Dolby Headphone and CMSS-3D are completely different technologies, which as expected produce different results. You can't compare apples to oranges and get accurate data.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Slight, the sound is completely muffled with cmss3d. How does your music sound when you leave on cmss3d or the like by mistake? To me its worse, far worse than a low bitrate recording. Why do you find that acceptable for gaming? This is a forum where the mantra on the AD700 is that its no good for immersive single player gaming due to its lack of bass. I'll say this, my AD700 in pure stereo sounds better than my HD598 (which I love) with cmss3d. I'm just trying to understand where people draw the line.
> 
> I agree with the hard pan left to right in too many games but imo its the lesser of two evils. In the time that I played around with THX tru-studio on my titanium hd it seemed like a better compromise.


 


  I leave cmss3d off for music. For gaming, having a hard left-right pan is completely unacceptable. It's incredibly annoying to only have sound coming from one ear. When playing Skyrim you can have voices coming from one ear or the other, unless you are facing directly at them. Try plugging one ear for a while. It's seriously annoying.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Yes, I agree that is a problem in Skyrim. That doesn't seem to be an issue in most games though. At least from what I've seen. Well, as much of an issue anyways. Then there is still music in Skyrim that with cmss3d doesn't really sound very good. You also still have that muffled sound. So its still a pretty hefty compromise. 
   
   
  Quote:


rebel975 said:


> I leave cmss3d off for music. For gaming, having a hard left-right pan is completely unacceptable. It's incredibly annoying to only have sound coming from one ear. When playing Skyrim you can have voices coming from one ear or the other, unless you are facing directly at them. Try plugging one ear for a while. It's seriously annoying.


----------



## Rebel975

IMO, playing in stereo is a pretty hefty compromise.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> As far as DH vs. CMSS-3D goes, to each his own I guess.
> 
> My primary goal was defending virtual surround's benefits over stereo, in which many here complained CMSS-3D didn't quite cut it, but picking up an Astro Mixamp was an entirely different experience. But not everyone will reach the same conclusion.
> 
> So my point is, why do we invest money in virtual surround equipment? Because most of us in this thread _do_ find it to be more accurate and beneficial than stereo. Why would we invest money in something we personally don't believe in?


 
   

  Well, it doesn't help CMSS-3D Headphone any that Creative doesn't make it obvious how to set it up properly. Most people will never see that page, and it's kind of baffling that the drivers don't automatically change the Windows speaker setting to begin with. Then there's the different technologies that use the CMSS-3D label...for those reasons, I think it gets a lot of misguided flak from people who haven't set it up properly.
   
  But if you have set it up properly and still don't like it as much, I can respect that. With any technology that relies on the listener's unique HRTF and can only use a generic/average HRTF with no customization to suit each listener, your mileage WILL vary. Sometimes people give me the impression that they wouldn't be satisfied with anything short of the Smyth Realiser, and with the $3,000+ price tag, forget that!
   
  At least we're in agreement on one thing; gaming with a binaural surround filter provides immense advantages over stereo with simple left/right panning when you absolutely, positively have to know where every gunshot, footstep, and explosion came from.

  Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music.
> 
> In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d.
> 
> ...


 

 While I would certainly like clearer music, when it comes to something like Serious Sam, I'd rather have the positional audio advantages so that I don't accidentally back up into a charging Sirian Werebull when running from Beheaded Kamikazes or god knows what else in that game, given how it always surrounds you and attacks you from all angles. Plus, it's actually sort of more immersive to hear sounds coming at you from all directions instead of just from your exact left and right.
   
  As for Skyrim, it doesn't ever sound like I'm in a basement. The only things that would make it sound like I'm in a basement are Dolby Headphone's DH3 mode and global room/EAX presets that should be off at all times, because of the ridiculous amount of reverb added. (I'm not even going to get into the debate about Skyrim's sound mastering quality right now.)
   
  And regarding those games you mentioned that have overhead or non-1st/3rd-person perspectives, I actually do turn CMSS-3D Headphone off in those cases, precisely because it's not giving me any locational benefits in those cases. Problem is, I play a lot of 1st/3rd-person games, so at least having the option would be nice.
   
  Finally, about people having issues with the AD700, I just chalk that up to them not liking open headphones or wanting more bass, what with the AD700 being the very antithesis of a basshead headphone and all. There might be other reasons I've overlooked, though, but if there's one thing I know, no one headphone suits everyone's sound signature preferences.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I started a poll in the computer audio section.


----------



## Rebel975

I use DH on my Xbox and CMSS-3D on the computer. Which should I choose in the poll? Not like it really matters. Some people like virtual surround technologies and some people don't.
   
  As far as I see it you may as well make a poll that says something like, "Are you a basshead or a treblehead?" It's interesting to see the results, but nothing but personal preferences can be had from them.


----------



## jghost23

Can the 250 OHM run with only a mixamp? Could I plug them into an iphone/ipod?
  
  Quote: 





riku540 said:


> If you get the DT 990 _600 ohm_ you probably will need a separate desktop amplifier. Even with built in amplifiers, nothing can ever substitute for a truly dedicated desktop amp. Any solid state will do; E9, Asgard, I wouldn't go overboard for the sake of gaming though. Honestly I would not go this route unless you plan to use this rig for music too. Otherwise, go for 250 or 32 ohm; the difference is hardly audible if audible at all. My recommendation would be different if the 600 ohm version was clearly superior to the other models, but in this case you really have to A/B them carefully.
> 
> If you get a sound card you will not need a Mixamp, as the Mixamp in a PC configuration _is_ the sound card.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Yes, but in the other 95% of games that aren't competitive to me it breaks the immersion. Which seems to be peoples beef with the AD700 here. Going back to the music, games have music. In Serious Sam 3 which I've recently been playing the muffled music just sounded awful to me. I had to turn down the sound since it was giving me a headache with cmss3d. Another example is the wildly popular Skyrim. If I'm in the mountains of Skyrim it shouldn't sound like I'm in a basement. To me that sounds ridiculous. Even on the "competitive scene" not all competitive games require footstep placement like wow, SC2, LoL, ect. If you don't mind the hit in SQ and competitive accuracy is all that matters then why would you need any more than the AD700 or A700? Like I said I'm just trying to understand the line.


 

 You have the wrong impression. I am speaking strictly competitive/cooperative gaming terms, where winning and losing matters. Most people come to this thread in search of a competitive edge, and the solution we give them is virtual surround.
   
  On the other hand, I have Platinumed Skyrim on PS3 and working for it again on PC. Every second played was in stereo.
   
  Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Can the 250 OHM run with only a mixamp? Could I plug them into an iphone/ipod?


 
   
  250 ohm should be fine out of the Mixamp. Before MLE got his E9, he used the DT 990 600 ohm straight into the Mixamp, and "cheated" the volume but turning the voice/game dial all the way to game. 250 ohms will not be ideal for iPhone/iPod however.
   
  I personally own the DT 880 32 ohm, and have no regrets. I like the flexibility of being able to use it with various devices, and if I really want to get serious on clarity and detail, I have my PRO 900's.


----------



## livingplastic

I am going to be listening to music with this setup. I'm not investing hundreds of dollars just to hear foot steps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  The reason I want the 600 ohm DT990 is because the treble is known to be smoother on them compared to the 32 and 250. I like treble but it can't be harsh thus I need the 600 ohm. Also the 600 ohm drivers will last years longer than the 32 or 250 ohm drivers.
   
  If 80mw at 600 ohms isn't good enough for a pair of head phones that have a max power rating of 100mw at 600 ohm. Then I can get the $30 or less xonar that doesn't have the powerfull headphone amp and buy or build a nice headphone amp to power the headphones. But is there a sound card that puts Dolby headphone over the line out? If not then what?


----------



## Riku540

Unfortunately DSP is performed at the amp stage, which means you will never get virtual surround through any kind of line out.


----------



## livingplastic

I think I've heard there are some creative cards that put out there virtual surround throu the line out. Isn't there some kind of external dac or something that would handle the virtual surround if need be? I know there is a way to get proper virtual surround throu an amp. Also if MLE was able to get the mix amp to power the dt 990 600 ohm then I'm sure the xonar st can.


----------



## Riku540

If there is a way to get virtual surround through a proper line out then I don't know anyone that is aware of it. I don't know the specifics, but it is my understanding that DSP is tied into the process where amplification is performed (in this case, just a standard headphone jack is still considered an amp, though a weak one) and therefore impossible to get such a signal through a line out as proper line outs bypass all other processes in order to pass on the purest and cleanest possible signal. If you do find out otherwise please share.
   
  The way the Mixamp could "power" the DT 990 600 was by turning both the overall volume way up alongside with turning the game/voice ratio all the way to game. Depending on the output levels of the Xonar, you might not get the same result by simply adjusting the volume levels accordingly in your mixer. Having multiple volume adjusters in itself already affects audio quality.
   
  In any case, this succeeds in driving the DT 990 600 ohm to _proper volume levels_, but not necessarily to _full potential sound quality_.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Given the choice which one do you prefer? I would be interested to hear what someone experienced with both Dolby hp and cmss3d has to say about how they compare. 
   
  I just played around with a few games and I did find that cmss3d sounded really good in Stalker clear sky, that was a nice step up. I still say that its a big step down in SS3 BFE.
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I use DH on my Xbox and CMSS-3D on the computer. Which should I choose in the poll? Not like it really matters. Some people like virtual surround technologies and some people don't.
> 
> As far as I see it you may as well make a poll that says something like, "Are you a basshead or a treblehead?" It's interesting to see the results, but nothing but personal preferences can be had from them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just FYI, the Asus soundcard rated at 80MW@600hms uses a similar amp section as the E9, so a dekstop amp isn't necessary for the DT990/600. I heard it might actually a little better than the E9.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> If there is a way to get virtual surround through a proper line out then I don't know anyone that is aware of it. I don't know the specifics, but it is my understanding that DSP is tied into the process where amplification is performed (in this case, just a standard headphone jack is still considered an amp, though a weak one) and therefore impossible to get such a signal through a line out as proper line outs bypass all other processes in order to pass on the purest and cleanest possible signal. If you do find out otherwise please share.


 

  
  As long as I'm not confusing terms here- the X-Fi cards can output CMSS-3D via the RCA jacks as well as the optical. I currently have the X-Fi's RCA jacks feeding my Lyr. Aren't the RCA's line-out?


  Quote: 





bababooeyhtj said:


> Given the choice which one do you prefer? I would be interested to hear what someone experienced with both Dolby hp and cmss3d has to say about how they compare.
> 
> I just played around with a few games and I did find that cmss3d sounded really good in Stalker clear sky, that was a nice step up. I still say that its a big step down in SS3 BFE.


 


  Not sure yet. I just barely got the X-Fi card. I'll let you know when I have some more experience with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

RCA can also be pre-amp outs...


----------



## Rebel975

Isn't the purpose of a preamp to bring a signal up to line out?


----------



## Phos

Creative's Recon3D looks like one to watch.  $130 MSRP, works with consoles as well as PCs, appears to only need USB on PC.  It comes with a 360 mic cord appears to support voice chat on PS3.  Might have less hiss.  I say that about all such things, but this time I actually kind of have a reason to say it this time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rebel975 said:


> Isn't the purpose of a preamp to bring a signal up to line out?




From my understanding, a line out is a signal in its purest form. A pre-amp is a signal tied in directly with the amp portion of the device.

For example, the E9 has a line out and a pre-amp out. The Pre-amp out can be controlled by the volume knob on the E9. The line out can't.

Hence, this is why we can consider the Mixamp as a pre-amp to another amp when powering hard to drive cans.

Not sure how the RCA out works on those soundcards, as soundcards don't have a volume knob, lol. I would ASSUME, that IF on the hardware sound settings, the volume control functions with the RCA... then it isn't a true line out.

As for the Creative Recond 3D... hmm, if it works on consoles.. I may have to get it and see howit compares to Dolby Headphone.

Honestly, they just need to implement binaural audio, which would trump all these DSPs. Binaural sounds more realistic than DH and has vertical positioning.


----------



## Eric_C

Fwiw, I play skyrim on PC, sometimes in stereo (on speakers), sometimes in DH via MixAmp + DT 880. It does not sound like a basement. I *think* it sounds a bit thinner but I might be looking for a difference in SQ; in any case, the game is still very playable, the setup doesn't make audio distracting, and in a few instances it's helped me pinpoint enemies when skulking around caves.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





phos said:


> Creative's Recon3D looks like one to watch.  $130 MSRP, works with consoles as well as PCs, appears to only need USB on PC.  It comes with a 360 mic cord appears to support voice chat on PS3.  Might have less hiss.  I say that about all such things, but this time I actually kind of have a reason to say it this time.


 

 I've had my eye on that device for a while, but the price is a bit too high for my liking. I'm wondering how the Sound Core3D over USB compares to a genuine X-Fi EMU20k1/EMU20k2 APU in terms of PC gaming features, and how well whatever they're using now (they sure aren't calling it CMSS-3D Headphone; maybe it's THX TruStudio Pro Surround now?) compares to the existing solutions.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, they just need to implement binaural audio, which would trump all these DSPs. Binaural sounds more realistic than DH and has vertical positioning.


 

 That would make me happy like you'd never believe, and in a sense, CMSS-3D Headphone already does this with PC games that use DirectSound3D and OpenAL. They just tell the sound card driver where the sounds are in 3D space, and they're processed binaurally.
   
  Of course, that doesn't help console gamers one bit, and even new PC games use software audio engines that pre-mix for 7.1 at the most, with zero binaural mixing options because to people who don't know any better, headphones = stereo (one-dimensional left-right panning only)...and sadly, those people are responsible for FMOD and Microsoft's XAudio2 + X3DAudio APIs, used in most of the games I encounter these days.
   
  If we could get FMOD and the XAudio APIs to support binaural audio mixing (and to a lesser extent, the Miles Sound System), we'd have pretty much the whole game industry supporting binaural audio by default, no need for hardware DSPs to approximate it, PC and console alike.
   
  Maybe we should start lobbying them all?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkunPQMhN4 

I posted this before. Though it says Dolby Headphone, it ISN'T. Its binaural. Meaning ANYONE can listen to this, just put on headphones and play.

The vid showcases how well rear and vertical sounds work, though the front sounds didn't sound right. They sounded over the head.

In any case, though this isn't dolby headphone, it does give you an idea as to how it sounds like. There's no way basic stereo can ever top the positioning a virtual space like DH, and binaural can provide.


----------



## Phos

Isn't the recon3D priced similarly to the mixamp?  Thought it was 130 as well. Everything you need is the box if that makes a difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I see the listing on Amazon. Tempted, but it definitely looks PC oriented, while consoles are secondary.

I only care about one thing: how it compares to Dolby Headphone in terms of positional cues, mostly front/rear.

Edit: Great, now my broke arse is considering buying it to compare. I've read its better than DH in positioning. ARGH...must...have it.


----------



## Arnotts

Different people hear things differently, but to me CMSS-3D is better than Dolby Headphone and THX TruStudio.
   
  THX TruStudio being the worst, it literally just sounds like that "bathroom" or "basement" EAX effect you see all the time, to me. Dolby Headphone is OK to me, but I don't like its positioning that much, it never felt very precise with the Essence STX. It's hard to explain, but the moment I tried a properly set up Creative Titanium HD with CMSS-3D the difference was noticeable straight away.
   
  DH with the Essence STX to me felt like I was wearing headphones - it was definitely better than pure stereo audio, but discerning front sounds from rear sounds was difficult. Because of this, pretty much all sounds at 10:30, 1:30, 4:30 and 7:30 (I'm referring to positions on a clock, just in case anyone gets confused) were difficult to pin point as well.
   
  Then I got a Titanium HD, and positional audio to me felt perfect. It didn't feel like I was listening to headphones when I was playing, it felt like all the sounds completely surrounded me, there were no "holes" where it was difficult to tell where anything was coming from.
   
  So was the problem Dolby Headphone, is the Essence STX poor at imaging or am I just different than most other people in this thread? Who knows. Unfortunately, anyone who wants to know which method is better for gaming is just going to have to try it out for themselves.
   
  Also, make sure you set up your games and Windows audio settings correctly when using CMSS-3D - you want to make sure Windows and the game you're playing are using 5.1 surround sound, then turn on CMSS-3D and it'll use all those channels for positional audio in your headphones.
   
  With the Titanium HD I can actually listen to music with CMSS-3D on and it still sounds great. It doesn't make it sound any worse to my ears as the effect is fairly subtle with music; it just ends up being a different presentation of the music. Dolby Headphone I find OK with music too, definitely listenable but less subtle than CMSS-3D. For the most part, though, I prefer to stick to stereo for music, even with the Titanium HD. The only DSP that I felt made music (and games) sound terrible was THX TruStudio.
   
  EDIT: Just to clarify, NamelessPFG is correct when he says the latest games don't benefit CMSS-3D all that much. I can believe that games that use Direct3D or OpenAL are actually binaural with CMSS-3D, as that's what it sounds like, but newer games like BF3 have positional audio that pales in comparison. It's still better than stereo and I believe it's still better than DH on the STX, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would LOVE to try CMSS 3D, but because I'm a console gamer, I don't have that luxury.

I have stated hundreds of times, my testing is purely based off CONSOLE gaming. I can't recommend something I have never tried, so CMSS 3D is notgoing to be something I talk about, at least until (if) they make it for consoles.

DH is picky with the headphones you use with it, as well as the GAME you're playing. For example, I could never get great positional cues with the DT880, but perfect cues with the K701. Some games have terrible implementation of DH that it would make me dismiss it completely if it weren't for other games. Hell, BF3 doesn't do much for me in terms of positional audio the way MW2 does. SQ is better on BF3, but virtual surround is better on MW2.


----------



## Mavekovis

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I see the listing on Amazon. Tempted, but it definitely looks PC oriented, while consoles are secondary.
> I only care about one thing: how it compares to Dolby Headphone in terms of positional cues, mostly front/rear.
> Edit: Great, now my broke arse is considering buying it to compare. I've read its better than DH in positioning. ARGH...must...have it.


 

 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I would LOVE to try CMSS 3D, but because I'm a console gamer, I don't have that luxury.


 
   
  Now I'm confused . Which '3d audio' are you talking about on the first quote if not cmss 3d ? anyway i hope you get to test recon3D.. I have yet to do my final desicion on which equipment ill buy.
  
  On a side note; Been playing+listening to music on my 20€ speakers for 6 years. Now I really need to make up for it with good set of cans : P .


----------



## VulgarDisplay

I've been gaming in stereo ever since I ditched my razer barracuda for AD700's almost 3 years ago.  I have never experienced a hard pan in any game in 3 years time.  People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards.  
   
  I play PC games and my HRT Music Streamer II+ > FiiO e9 > Q701's will destroy any dolby headphone setup in terms of audio quality and positioning.  I've use DH and CMSS3d and all they do is destroy the quality of your sound.  Sure it's great to get a sense of footsteps behind you, but that won't help you when you can't hear them because the sound is so bad.  
   
  If you're serious about audio quality on PC games you have to get your DAC out of the PC case.  It's too noisy in there with all the electricity moving around.  
   
  Going from the AD700 to the Q701's has been another revelation for me.  I'm hearing sounds in games I've played for years that I never heard until now, and on top of that I can actually hear up and down much better now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Creative Recon 3D which is using THX TruStudio Pro Surround. CMSS 3D is a PC only DSP.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Creative Recon 3D which is using THX TruStudio Pro Surround. CMSS 3D is a PC only DSP.


 


  CMSS3d is the equivalent of stabbing your eardrums with an ice pick.  It's beyond bad, and I found that no matter how many exotic settings changes I made using the creative forums I could never get anything even remotely like positional audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vulgardisplay said:


> I've been gaming in stereo ever since I ditched my razer barracuda for AD700's almost 3 years ago.  I have never experienced a hard pan in any game in 3 years time.  People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards.
> 
> I play PC games and my HRT Music Streamer II+ > FiiO e9 > Q701's will destroy any dolby headphone setup in terms of audio quality and positioning.  I've use DH and CMSS3d and all they do is destroy the quality of your sound.  Sure it's great to get a sense of footsteps behind you, but that won't help you when you can't hear them because the sound is so bad.
> 
> ...




That's a bold statement. Us here are using DSP's like Dolby headphone first and foremost because it opens up the soundstage into a virtual landscape. Stereo does NOt do that whatsoever. You may get better awareness with a really large innate soundstage like the AD700 or K701's, but it still doesn't fully envelope the aural senses the way a DSP does.

There is absolutely NO comparison. Just because you're used to Stereo does not make it in any way superior to a DSP's method of recreating a full surround setup.

Destroy audio quality? It does no such thing. It does make it sound processed in comparison, but it's a tradeoff that most of us are more than happy with, considering the benefits.

We're not going for PURE SQ. We're going for a more immersive experience that as a bonus adds a lot towards positional cues. Being able to picture in your head exactly where they are coming from based off sound is an easier process for me than the ridiculously limited soundscape that stereo brings to gaming. Stereo gives an edge in left to right sounds, but not so much actual depth of sound. It sounds borderline FAKE in comparison, because everything sounds linear, whereas a DSP like DH will be like placing you in the middle of an actual stage.

But in the end, it's all based off preferences. Both pale in comparison to binaural, which is stereo with the sounds coming in based off how they were recorded around a specialized microphone. 

Vulgar, this thread was made with DSPs in mind. You can go bash DSPs elsewhere. 

I gamed in stereo for years. Once I heard DH... I could NEVER, EVER go back to stereo. It's the equivalent of me going completely deaf in one ear. Keep in mind, this is with console gaming. DH may very well be inferior on PC, due to incompatibility with certain games and improper settings. I don't have to deal with all that. Just plug and play.

Again DH is picky, and some games do use it well (actually lots of games don't), but certain games REALLY shine with DH. One I can think of is Lost Planet 2. Just try the demo.


----------



## Ra97oR

vulgardisplay said:


> I've been gaming in stereo ever since I ditched my razer barracuda for AD700's almost 3 years ago.  I have never experienced a hard pan in any game in 3 years time.  People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards.
> 
> I play PC games and my HRT Music Streamer II+ > FiiO e9 > Q701's will destroy any dolby headphone setup in terms of audio quality and positioning.  I've use DH and CMSS3d and all they do is destroy the quality of your sound.  Sure it's great to get a sense of footsteps behind you, but that won't help you when you can't hear them because the sound is so bad.
> 
> ...




Nice massive bold statement of needless generalization. Each to their own, if you think sound cards cannot be good and DSP will ruin everything, that is just you. 

I'll admit that I do not use any DSP or DH setups as much as they "expand" the soundstage, the rare accuracy that my AD1000PRM gives me out weights the immersion in games that matter. For immersion I just put on my STAX now. Do I now need to go out to bash others that uses DSPs and different headphones than myself? It's just a vulgar display of manners.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG STAX. I can imagine playing in DH with the SR-007 MK 2 Omega II... even the name sounds godly. 

But I'd buy the Beyer Headzone Game or Smyth Realizer first.


----------



## Ra97oR

mad lust envy said:


> OMG STAX. I can imagine playing in DH with the SR-007 MK 2 Omega II... even the name sounds godly.
> But I'd buy the Beyer Headzone Game or Smyth Realizer first.




I remember trying the Smyth Realizer last meet in London, it is... strange. It is not bad, but not feeling like listening to headphones while listening to headphones kinda defeats the point.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you mean? Headphones don't sound like headphones?

edit: wait, it utilizes head tracking like the Headzone Pro... nah, I don't want that. I just want something that recreated a full surround sound in your headphones for gaming. That head tracking is useless for that purpose, as your head should generally always be pointing towards the screen anyways... you ARE gaming. :rolleyes:

edit 2: Damn, I really want the Headzone (non-tracking), It decodes DTS... something the Mixamp doesn't do... ARGH... XD

edit 3: In all honesty, I WOULD buy the Headzone... I would. I mean, look at this guy!



It's so awesome, he fell asleep to the sounds of explosions!

If by some miracle I clear my debt, I WILL buy the Headzone, mark my words.

It's going for $1100 for the base alone on Amazon. Damn I wish I had a G for this. I wish they had a loaner program or something. I would do almost ANYTHING to get my hands on one.

edit 4: OMG, does anyone speak German, to translate what he says about the Headzone vs Mixamp 5.8 about 4 minutes in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DISJzrAreQE

edit 5: From some random forum:



> Well i recently got the beyerdynamic headzone so i will sell my a40 mixamp but to be honest the difference between the two is very slightly noticeable. Another thing is that the headzone adds a little more sound stage.




Hmm... only a slight difference... still, I WANT it! 

edit 6:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/565068/ic-beyerdynamic-headzone-home-ht-5-1-surround-with-head-tracking



> Ah! This is the million dollar question and a very legitimate one if you consider buying an almost 2'000$ emulation system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I so need this... badly. So much, that it will be the very next major audio purchase I make. No more beating around the bush. I got my two main headphones, my amp/dac setups... now for what will really make games and movies stand out.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's a bold statement. Us here are using DSP's like Dolby headphone first and foremost because it opens up the soundstage into a virtual landscape. Stereo does NOt do that whatsoever. You may get better awareness with a really large innate soundstage like the AD700 or K701's, but it still doesn't fully envelope the aural senses the way a DSP does.
> There is absolutely NO comparison. Just because you're used to Stereo does not make it in any way superior to a DSP's method of recreating a full surround setup.
> Destroy audio quality? It does no such thing. It does make it sound processed in comparison, but it's a tradeoff that most of us are more than happy with, considering the benefits.
> We're not going for PURE SQ. We're going for a more immersive experience that as a bonus adds a lot towards positional cues. Being able to picture in your head exactly where they are coming from based off sound is an easier process for me than the ridiculously limited soundscape that stereo brings to gaming. Stereo gives an edge in left to right sounds, but not so much actual depth of sound. It sounds borderline FAKE in comparison, because everything sounds linear, whereas a DSP like DH will be like placing you in the middle of an actual stage.
> ...


 


  Yes, but that heavily compressed sound that cmss3d gives in my opinion sounds even more "fake". There are quite a few games that have their own headphone mode that works pretty well. Not every game has that hard clipping from right to left. Even in the games that do to me that muffled sound kills the immersion probably more so. I went and tried a few games last night and for me Stalker Clear Sky was the only one that seemed to benefit from cmss-3d. I think that after using normal stereo for so long that you get used to how a game should sound. When you enable cmss-3d and all of a sudden all of the music, voices, etc sound entirely different you really notice it. That muffled sound is something thats there in every bit of the game, that clipping in stereo isn't as consistent of an issue in single player games for me. Its a compromise. 
   
  I really want to give Dolby HP a shot. I may sell my titanium hd and pick up an STX one of these days. 
   
  There are a lot of people that call this the gaming thread. I just saw that in a headphone recommendation thread, anyways. Where better to have a discussion on the the pros and cons of these DSPs?
   
   

  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> I've been gaming in stereo ever since I ditched my razer barracuda for AD700's almost 3 years ago.  I have never experienced a hard pan in any game in 3 years time.  People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards.


 

 I game in stereo too and have been doing so for quite a while now. I do have to say that I notice that hard pan in a few games. Skyrim is a good example. If you're looking at someone dead on in the conversation menu you hear sound in both ears. If you then turn your head to the right all of a sudden you'll hear sound out of just the left speaker with almost no transition. I'll also admit that there are times where I can hear an enemy buy can't tell where they are coming from in that game. I also noticed this sort of thing in stalker clear sky but unlike Skyrim I found cmss-3d to sound good. I think that there is a misconception here that all games are like that with the hard pans in stereo which just isn't the case.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> Nice massive bold statement of needless generalization. Each to their own, if you think sound cards cannot be good and DSP will ruin everything, that is just you.
> I'll admit that I do not use any DSP or DH setups as much as they "expand" the soundstage, the rare accuracy that my AD1000PRM gives me out weights the immersion in games that matter. For immersion I just put on my STAX now. Do I now need to go out to bash others that uses DSPs and different headphones than myself? It's just a vulgar display of manners.


 


  On a forum that is all opinions and no facts you need to get a little bit used to the fact that people aren't going to agree with you at all times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok guys I was wrong. The DT990/600 does NOT need an amp attached to get loud volumes when the Mixamp fully powers game audio. I was just playingg BLOPS on the PS3 and it was super loud. 

That being said, the sound did crackle a few times, letting me know it would love an amp attached. Remember, loud =/= well driven.

But still to those who can't afford an amp immediately, you can definitely get by with just the Mixamp as long as no chat is mixed in.

I guess the demo I tested last time just had really low volume...


----------



## Rebel975

"People are either using horrible headphones, or inferior DAC/soundcards."
   
   
   
  Yes, anyone that doesn't like playing in stereo must have horrible gear. How much money does someone have to spend on equipment before their opinion is valid?


----------



## Riku540

Vulgar, your opinion is appreciated.
   
  However, the discussion here isn't stereo vs virtual surround, and is distracting from people who are interested in virtual surround and looking for suggestions on gear.
   
  That said, why oh why does the Headzone Game have to be so expensive?


----------



## Phos

Armored Core V is coming out soon, so I want some voice chat action + virtual surround on the PS3, so now I have a decision to make: Buy a cheap USB sound card as an input for chat for use with my DSS or I could get that Recon 3D thing that does both.  
   
  Has anyone tried a Recon 3D?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> If you're serious about audio quality on PC games you have to get your DAC out of the PC case.  It's too noisy in there with all the electricity moving around.


 
   
  Another one of those posts...I won't say you're wrong without having tried a good quality external DAC, but I will say that if I am to get a DAC, it better support S/PDIF input or I'm not buying. The X-Fi card stays in my PC as a DSP, and I'm not doing without the in-game EAX processing support as a minimum, because I still play my fair share of older titles with hardware-accelerated audio that will not sound as the developers intended in software audio mode.
   
  Oh, and for me, stereo and CMSS-3D Headphone aren't even close. For instance, Unreal Tournament 1999 with the Old Unreal patch that adds OpenAL support. Stereo sounds clear, but the sounds are all jammed directly to the left and right of my ears, all congested and hard to pick out where they're coming from. CMSS-3D Headphone makes it all binaural, spaces them out, allows me to tell whether they're front or back and up or down in addition to left or right...there is a processed quality to the audio, obviously, but nothing that deeply offends my ears. Dolby Headphone is distinctively less binaural and more virtual 5.1, but still a hell of a lot better in un-congesting those sounds and giving them distinct directionality than plain stereo.
   
  Fortunately, CMSS-3D Headphone can be carried over S/PDIF too, so I can still use an external DAC that way...but it's said that any DAC that is capable of surpassing even the highest-end internal sound cards runs $300 _minimum_, more often $500 or even $1,000. That's money I could easily put toward better Stax equipment, which I think would provide far more of an audible increase in sound quality than a DAC several times my X-Fi Titanium HD's price.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OMG STAX. I can imagine playing in DH with the SR-007 MK 2 Omega II... even the name sounds godly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you lived just a bit closer to my part of northwest Georgia, I'd let you audition my Stax Lambda systems just to hear your thoughts. Flagship SR-007 or SR-009 they aren't, but they're also not nearly as wallet-wringing, either. I think they're pretty much AD700 on steroids already...and people describe the K701/K702/Q701 in much the same way, but I've never heard anyone compare a Lambda series headphone against one of those around here. I just wonder if they're good enough for you to deem the new competitive headphone champion or not.
   
  You might prefer the darker SR-007 sound signature, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

riku540 said:


> Vulgar, your opinion is appreciated.
> 
> However, the discussion here isn't stereo vs virtual surround, and is distracting from people who are interested in virtual surround and looking for suggestions on gear.
> 
> That said, why oh why does the Headzone Game have to be so expensive?




You don't need the Headzone Game, just the Headzone base. Game just adds the MMX300. Since most of us don't need the headset, we can save a few hundred by just getting the base. 

Of course, I don't think any of us are fanatic enough to buy a gaming amp for over $1000...though I will say I am.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You don't need the Headzone Game, just the Headzone base. Game just adds the MMX300. Since most of us don't need the headset, we can save a few hundred by just getting the base.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  But I do want the MMX 300. D:
   
  Y can I haz not boaf?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Of course, I don't think any of us are fanatic enough to buy a gaming amp for over $1000...though I will say I am.


 

 Just man up and sell everything you own/rob a bank and get the smyth realiser 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Comes with some stylish Stax headphones...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Half tempted on cancelling my Audio GD stuff, going with the modded M Stage+E17, returning the DT990s, and getting the Headzone... seriously. But the D7000 is definitely mine.


----------



## chicolom

Soo....out of curiosity I tried gaming with my M-stage + mixamp:    MixAmp  ->  *M-Stage*  ->  Q701
   
  I immediately noticed that the soundstage became bigger.  I was not expecting that.  The M-stage stretched out the soundstage a bit past PC360 size and closer to AD700 size 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The seperation and positioning also benefited.  Strangely though, I tried the same test with my E9 when I had it and didn't get the same results.  The soundstage stayed the same or got slightly smaller with the E9 vs the Mixamp alone.  The main reason I didnt like the E9 setup was because the midbass became a bit boomy with the E9, like I had bass boost on (which I didn't).  I A-Bed several times between the mixamp and E9 and decided I preferred the mixamp standalone. 
   
  I guess I'm gaming with my M-stage from now on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I did the above M-Stage + mixamp test with a one dollar 3.5mm to RCA cable that I got from the dollar store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also have upgraded opamps in my M-Stage (2x OPA602BP; one for sale in my sig 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) that are known for giving larger/better soundstage performance than the stock opamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the E9 doesn't really add anything in terms of soundstage over the Mixamp alone. I just use it as a means to drive headphones better. I'd like to try out the M-Stage. I did order it before, but cancelled last minute.


----------



## chicolom

MMmmm.  That smyth realiser looks sexy.  HDMI input and passthrough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Just saw this on the realiser FAQ:
   
  "8.  It would seem that Beyerdynamic’s 5.1-channel Headzone product is not unlike the Realiser. Should I not expect similar performance?
   
  Actually they are not very similar. The Realiser emulates specific rooms and specific sound systems as heard by a specific person’s ears, the personalisation being a key factor in realism.  Headzone creates a synthetic room which is heard through a generalised representation of ears.  Also the characteristics of the Smyth and Beyer head trackers are noticeably different."
   
  That's cool that the realiser measures your own HRTFs with little ear mics.  I'm so jelly of that dude here with the realiser + Stax SR009s.


----------



## maverickronin

The downside is that the Realiser is pretty much useless unless you have access to a good system that's set up properly to take measurements from.
   
  Most of the people in the Realiser thread were taking flights out to LA for the the day to pick up their Realiser and run around town with a guy from Smyth to take measurements in high end 5.1 mastering facilities at the special rates that Smyth negotiated for its customers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The thing with the Realizer is that its about emulating a real world sound system. Does it come with a few presets? I really wouldn't want the head tracking as it does nothing for me. If you're looking at a screen, there's no benefit to tracking your head. For concerts on disc, I can understand, just nothing else.

How much does it cost? The Headzone, while expensive, isn't exactly out of reach.

Edit: thanks maverick, exactly what I thought. Unless you have access to an awesome sound system, I don't see the benefit of the Realizer over the more ordinary Headzone. I'd only want one of these to mimic full surround sound placement. I don't need perfect audio playback. If the Headzone does surround even 50% better than DH, I'm all for it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The downside is that the Realiser is pretty much useless unless you have access to a good system that's set up properly to take measurements from.
> 
> Most of the people in the Realiser thread were taking flights out to LA for the the day to pick up their Realiser and run around town with a guy from Smyth to take measurements in high end 5.1 mastering facilities at the special rates that Smyth negotiated for its customers.


 


  It comes with at least 1 preset measurement. 
   
_"9.  What if I don’t have any loudspeakers to measure? Does the Realiser come with any factory default sound rooms?_
   
_The Realiser is shipped with a default emulation which is simply a staffer’s measurement in the sound room at our laboratory. We do not consider this a reference-quality room, and of course the emulation is not personalised to the purchaser. Even so, most listeners find it far preferable to the surround virtualisers they have heard. While we urge you to make your own personalised measurements, the factory default emulation allows the Realiser to work right out of the box, and can be enjoyed while you are considering what personalised measurements to make."_

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The thing with the Realizer is that its about emulating a real world sound system. Does it come with a few presets? I really wouldn't want the head tracking as it does nothing for me. If you're looking at a screen, there's no benefit to tracking your head. For concerts on disc, I can understand, just nothing else.
> How much does it cost? The Headzone, while expensive isn't exactly out of reach.


 

 I'd have to try headtracking before I make a verdict on it.  I realize that your looking at the screen when gaming, but even then I make minor quick head movements as I look at things on the edges of the screen.  I assume it would pick up on that.  The headtracker on the realizer is way less dorky looking than the Beyer one.
   
  It costs $3670....so ya...out of reach :\


----------



## Phos

Considering that the realizer can calibrate itself to any headphones it really seems like they should offer it without the Stax set up as well.  
   
  The beyer head tracking, is it a passive system?  I'd be interested in head tracking if it weren't another 5 speaker simulator, I don't see the point in simulating a set of speakers simulating a game environment.  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Half tempted on cancelling my Audio GD stuff, going with the modded M Stage+E17, returning the DT990s, and getting the Headzone... seriously. But the D7000 is definitely mine.


 

 Want another crazy suggestion while we're at it?  It's possible to throw an X-fi or the like into a home theater PC and then run the game console's audio into it via the X-fi's optical in, process it with CMSS headphone, and then run out back out via the other optical jack.  
   
  Ya know those highly detailed character creations systems in Fallout 3 and the like?  It's be cool if one of these virtual surround technologies would let you recreate your ear in a similar fashion and then use that to build an HRTF profile.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The thing with head movements is that if you're playing a game, your on screen avatar is still stationed in the same spot. Tracking my own head would be useless as it doesn't help at all. I'm sure the effect is amazing, as you will get the feeling of moving around your room, but for the main purpose I'd want it for... no need whatsoever. Sounds are still being played around your on screen avatar, not you yourself.


----------



## NamelessPFG

As far as the X-Fi optical-in -> decode Dolby Digital -> output CMSS-3D Headphone-processed signal thought is concerned, that would be immensely easier had Creative not removed the real-time decoding feature from their drivers on later cards. I don't even know if the original PCI X-Fi cards still support it under Vista/Win7. Even modified drivers haven't enabled the Decoder tab on other X-Fi cards. Some comments from around the Internet state that it just isn't worth the hassle involved.
   
  Regarding head-tracking, I actually already have it on my PC in the form of a TrackIR, but that's obviously not slaved to a headphone surround processor, instead being a game input device in and of itself. (A must-have for anyone into combat flight simulation, if you ask me.)
   
  Having that device made me wonder how TrackIR-enhanced games should position their sounds: relative to the display (sounds don't appear to change direction when turning head), or relative to the user's view (sounds do change direction when looking around)? I suppose that depends on whether the user's using speakers or headphones.


----------



## VulgarDisplay

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The thing with head movements is that if you're playing a game, your on screen avatar is still stationed in the same spot. Tracking my own head would be useless as it doesn't help at all. I'm sure the effect is amazing, as you will get the feeling of moving around your room, but for the main purpose I'd want it for... no need whatsoever. Sounds are still being played around your on screen avatar, not you yourself.


 


  I wonder how the TrackIR and the Smyth Realizer would pair up with 5 Screen eyefinity.  You'd probably look like the borg, but it would be amazing to try outl Pretty cheap too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never heard of that. It sounds overwhelming, lol.


----------



## Ra97oR

I was actually planning on getting some TrackIR pods on my headphones, but seeing the cost and the lack of time I am playing race sims. I decided not to. TrackIR only really works on race, flying simulators, MechWarrior: Living Legends don't have it, nor does most fps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I should be getting my D7000 in a few hours. Ok... more like 10 if UPS sticks to the usual schedule of my deliveries. AGH, I can't wait! Ah, who am I kidding, I'll be asleep by then.


Here's some epic music for the those who love sexy lyrics and a banging bassline.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8C-ZTQJIkU

Massive Attack - Paradise Circus (Zeds Dead Remix) The SFW one.

The NSFW non-video... is umm... pornographic...and it's on youtube.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> Considering that the realizer can calibrate itself to any headphones it really seems like they should offer it without the Stax set up as well.


 

 To work properly the Realiser need to be used with a headphone that has excellent extension on both ends, low distortion, and very fast transient response. The headphone has to be as good or better than the speakers its trying to emulate in those areas or it won't work very well and people will bitch about how it sucks because they're using it with crappy studio monitor 'phones or something.  The Stax it comes with is the cheapest way to get all that.  The setup it comes with is only really limited in maximum volume.
   
  If you call them up and tell them you have a better headphone they'll sell it to you without the Stax system.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ra97or said:


> I was actually planning on getting some TrackIR pods on my headphones, but seeing the cost and the lack of time I am playing race sims. I decided not to. TrackIR only really works on race, flying simulators, MechWarrior: Living Legends don't have it, nor does most fps.


 
   

  Yeah, that's a shame. I don't think NaturalPoint was pushing the technology hard enough, or at least being successful enough to convince more developers to add support, given how most people thought Johnny Chung Lee's cool hack of turning the Wiimote into a TrackIR was a completely new idea.
   
  I play my fair share of combat flight sims, so it's worth it to me (head-tracking beats the hell out of finagling with a hat switch to slew your view around, plus it frees up that hat switch for more important functions), but it could use greater support to justify that hefty price tag (not counting alternatives like Freetrack, FaceTrackNoIR, etc.). ArmA II does, which is nice, but it also highlights how badly the older Battlefield titles needed it while I'm in an aircraft; it feels like I've got my head in a neck brace the whole time, and turning on mouselook turns OFF all control over the aircraft, even if I'm not using the mouse for that.
   
  Quote: 





vulgardisplay said:


> I wonder how the TrackIR and the Smyth Realizer would pair up with 5 Screen eyefinity.  You'd probably look like the borg, but it would be amazing to try outl Pretty cheap too.


 

*I CAN SEE FOREVER*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> Just got my "New In Open Box" D7000s from Electronics Expo. These are DEFINITELY to be considered new. The contents inside are definitely untouched, down to the 'tape' that covers the metal size adjustments. So anyone skeptical should feel 100% confident about getting their D7000s for a very cheap price through E-E's Amazon listing. I had bought a brand new D7000 last year from them, and it's in the same condition.
> 
> $585.... what a deal.






My babies are here!

I have a little bit of shock coming from the DT990s. I just put them on and damn... I miss the treble clarity of the DT990s, but I know it's just me having to get used to the signature change (that and the DT990's treble makes any headphone sound muffled in comparison, lol). The low end.... OMG... most impressive bass ever, lol. It's just so pristine... just reminded why I love them so much.

Now that I have both, and can see how different they are, I know I do wanna keep both of them.

edit: Just tried both off the E9 and E7 alone. The E7 makes the treble a little sharper, and the bass looser. The E9 balances it out... it just sounds daaaamn good off the E9. Sure the 10 ohm output impedance is technically not ideal for the 25 ohm D7000, but in actual practice, let's see anyone complain about the combo. Just stellar. Note: The D7000 sounds almost identical on both... which is a testament as to how easy they are to drive. They sound good off ANYTHING.


----------



## chicolom

Glad you got your D7000s back MLE.  My DT990/600s just came in as well! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'll have to test them tonight and see how they stack up against the Q701s....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

YAY! I absolutely cannot wait to hear your impressions of them. I hope to the almighty that you like it. The Matrix M Stage should tame that treble a bit compared to the E9, so I don't see how I myself wouldn't love it even more than I do now.

Any first impressions?

You know I expect you to give me a full review.


----------



## MyrenJobrah

Didn't see the M-80's mentioned here.. how would you guys say the soundstage is for these headphones? Good enough for gaming? Comparable to the DT 770 pro?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Any first impressions?
> You know I expect you to give me a full review.


 


  Haha, well I plugged them into my sansa clip and there's not enough bass so I'm returning them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No, seriously all I have ATM is my clip and they sound fine and very clear.  And the clip's the size of my thumb.  Can't wait to plug them into the "stage" later and juice them properly...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Haha, well I plugged them into my sansa clip and there's not enough bass so I'm returning them
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hahaha, I did the same but with the Sansa Fuze. Safe to say, not the best impressions, lol.

God, new toy syndrome or not... the D7000s make me wanna sell everything and build a rig around just them.  

JK, JK. .

Not gonna lie though, I enjoy music more off the D7000 by quite a margin. It's to be expected, they do cost about 3x-5x more than the DT990s. Lol.

Fired up CoD: BLOPS for a few rounds with the D7000. These may have one of the best front/rear and overall positioning cues out of all the cans I've tried. Even with the amazing sub bass, I could easily pick out the minor details and where they were coming from. Even the DT990 has a harder time locating rear sounds. The D7000 just does it all. BLOPS doesn't even have good audio, yet I could clearly tell where my enemies were. I still wouldn't ue these for everything, but if they were my only cans, I would dominate with these, no problem.


----------



## Ra97oR

D7000 and DX1000 is one of the most inviting headphone to listen to. Never too harsh, nor too soft that it muffles the details and the basssss.


----------



## Riku540

Looks like Sony's starting to take interest in binaural sound... Wonder if this means PS3 titles will start to see this in games!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though I can't see that off my phone, I think Sony should REALLY push Binaural sound for the Vita. CoD on the go with binaural audio? HELLS YEAH


----------



## livingplastic

Ha, Now I see you are all buying the expensive stuff.LOL Well, today I ordered some "like new" Sennheiser hd-555 for $75 , Since everyone seems to think once these are modded they are some of the best can's you can have for positioning cues. Not a bad price for some backup gaming headphones. I still have my Razer Barracuda for now. I think I'll wait and see how the asus xonar Phoebus review's once it's released. As for proper headphones and amp I'll think I'll wait just a bit longer and end up building my own amp. I have my eyes on some interesting stuff from a couple decades ago that may perhaps surpass the dt 990's for about the same price. New tech isn't always better tech.


----------



## Bowels

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha, I did the same but with the Sansa Fuze. Safe to say, not the best impressions, lol.
> God, new toy syndrome or not... the D7000s make me wanna sell everything and build a rig around just them.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I thought something was wrong with me because I had an easier time pinpointing enemies with my D2k's than the HD598's , not to mention that they are absolutely better than the Senn's for my music taste. Obviously D2's aren't D7's, but still haha. The 598's were shipped back ~3days later. I guess I'm officially a Denon fanboy.
   
  Definitely could see myself upgrading to the D7's down the road.


----------



## Hailin

Got my Modmic from Antlion today. Thing is SUPER sensitive. Has a ton of cord to it, maybe about ten feet to much for my own uses. I just wish it had a mute switch other then that it works as advertised. The quality on the PS3 is nice and smooth. On the Xbox it seems to crackle a bit. So that seems to be down to the system. My Modmic also came with two clasps which I was pretty happy about. About the only thing I am going to change is mod a sock on to it with an old KSC75 pad and an elastic band. Now I just have to wait for my HD598's to arrive and go through some testing.
   
  All this talk about the Denon D7000 makes me wish it was available in Canada for a price even close to the American ones. At 999 CND I could buy an amp, a Q702, and throw a party for 10 of my closest buds. 500 bucks buys a lot of Canadian.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bowels said:


> I thought something was wrong with me because I had an easier time pinpointing enemies with my D2k's than the HD598's , not to mention that they are absolutely better than the Senn's for my music taste. Obviously D2's aren't D7's, but still haha. The 598's were shipped back ~3days later. I guess I'm officially a Denon fanboy.
> 
> Definitely could see myself upgrading to the D7's down the road.




Which is why I put the D2K as one of those headphones that I haven't tested but believe would absolutely be worthwhile for DH-gaming. If I hadn't jumped straight to the D7K, I would've went to the D2K long ago. I STILL wanna hear them,just to see if my assumption is true. I could give a proper impressions for it and gaming.

So I put my DT990s back on, and I'm still very much enjoying them.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Got my Modmic from Antlion today. *Thing is SUPER sensitive*. Has a ton of cord to it, maybe about ten feet to much for my own uses.


 

  
  Ya, I noticed that.  It's extremely sensitive.  I put it close to my mouth at first like a normal boom mic and it was clipping when I talked at normal volume.  I moved it back to mid-cheek and last time I checked it was OK volume....


----------



## Hailin

I haven't placed it yet. But I am looking forward to testing it when I finally do. I do a lot of chatting. Thanks for the tip about placement.
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Ya, I noticed that.  It's extremely sensitive.  I put it close to my mouth at first like a normal boom mic and it was clipping when I talked at normal volume.  I moved it back to mid-cheek and last time I checked it was OK volume....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I haven't placed it yet. But I am looking forward to testing it when I finally do. I do a lot of chatting. Thanks for the tip about placement.


 
   
  Ya, I'm stilling bending it around trying to find the best spot.  I might have to hook it up to my PC and listen in to it live, because its a pain recording fake xbox voice messages and listening back to try and set the levels.


----------



## p0wah

Im looking for a set of headphones for Counter-Strike so they must have good soundstage but im also looking for a good amount of bass also as i am a bass-head, although my music varies from Dubstep to Metal to Rap. After reading your guide, im interested in the Beyerdynamic DT990s. Now on your guide you have your top choices and i was wondering if the DT990s in that list were the 600ohms or just any DT990s.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Naked Snake

Here's my impressions of the Samson SR850 as promised. As soon as I put them on, I was quite impressed, considering these are $50 headphones. They have a very nice soundstage, maybe not as big as the AD700 but impressive nonetheless. They sound like a much "fuller" AD700, they have a much more full-bodied sound compared to the "thin-sounding" AD700 (sorry I'm a noob at describing sound, doing my best here). And for that exact reason, they don't have quite the detail retrieval of the AD700. For example, consider a situation where there's gunfire going on near you and someone's approaching you from the flank or behind you, with the Samsons I wasn't able to hear his footsteps, whereas with the AD700 I did. I doubt these would suffice for a hardcore multi-player online competitive gamer, but for a casual gamer or even a casually competitive gamer, I don't see how you can go wrong with them, especially when you factor in the price.
   
  Regarding the bass, according to the reviews, these are supposed to have a decent amount of bass. Strangley, there was none to be found when I palyed Metal Gear Online, the online component of MGS4. So I popped in MGS4 and went straight to a scene where there's tons of explosions all around you, again no bass...at all. I tried a few other such scenes, but still couldn't hear any bass. I am not sure if it's the game or what's going on, because as I said before these are supposed to have good bass. I don't have any other games to test them out with so I might download some demos later this week and see if I can hear some.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks for those impressions Naked Snake. I could definitely understand your wording, so don't discredit yourself. 

Honestly guys, I think I might wanna return the DT990s to save some cash. The D7000 is pretty much the only headphone I need at home...other than the PC360 for chat and competitive gaming...

I'm still not sure. I DO love the DT990s A LOT. You all know this... but I could definitely use those $250 right now for something else...*cough*PS Vita*cough*

It's just... man... I would miss them. On second thought... no, I still want them...


----------



## Riku540

Didn't you once tell me it makes more sense to keep/buy headphones with significantly different sound signatures? Sure the D7000 and DT 990's are of different worlds completely, one is open and one is closed, but don't they both have a V-shape profile? It would be different keeping a V-shape and a neutral headphone, no?


----------



## Mavekovis

Quote: 





bowels said:


> I thought something was wrong with me because I had an easier time pinpointing enemies with my D2k's than the HD598's , not to mention that they are absolutely better than the Senn's for my music taste. Obviously D2's aren't D7's, but still haha. The 598's were shipped back ~3days later. I guess I'm officially a Denon fanboy.
> 
> Definitely could see myself upgrading to the D7's down the road.


 
  Lawl, all this time I thought electronics would ship internationally, then when I finally had decided to go for d7ks.... and they cost like 1000 € where I live. Back to listening to these cheap ass speakers, I guess.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

riku540 said:


> Didn't you once tell me it makes more sense to keep/buy headphones with significantly different sound signatures? Sure the D7000 and DT 990's are of different worlds completely, one is open and one is closed, but don't they both have a V-shape profile? It would be different keeping a V-shape and a neutral headphone, no?




Yeah, that's why I'm struggling with this decision. But honestly a neutral headphone would directly contradict the PC360 which I don't even like outside of gaming purposes. There's not a real instance in where I wouldn't be happy not using either the Denons or Beyers for all purposes outside of gaming w/voice chat. I could return the DT990s for some DT880s, but I know I'd miss the DT990s too much.

Oh yeah, damn your avatar.


----------



## Hailin

Thanks for the quick review. Everyone says that the SR850 sound like the HD668B. But your review has proven to me that statement is just crazy talk. My HD668B have more then enough bass. A song like James Blake's "Limit to your Love" you can just feel the sub-bass tickling your ears. In games only thing I have to compare it too right now I cause I don't play war games is White Knight Chronicles 2 I switched to mage so I could hear all the slams and booms of spells going off. The only thing I have done with my Superlux was change the cord to a cheap, shorter, and thicker Monoprice one and stuff the ear cups to give them some comfort. I love my Luxs but I would suggest anyone buying Lux's or Samson's get ear pad replacements cause that cheap vinyl leather is awful.
  
  Quote: 





naked snake said:


> Here's my impressions of the Samson SR850 as promised. As soon as I put them on, I was quite impressed, considering these are $50 headphones. They have a very nice soundstage, maybe not as big as the AD700 but impressive nonetheless. They sound like a much "fuller" AD700, they have a much more full-bodied sound compared to the "thin-sounding" AD700 (sorry I'm a noob at describing sound, doing my best here). And for that exact reason, they don't have quite the detail retrieval of the AD700. For example, consider a situation where there's gunfire going on near you and someone's approaching you from the flank or behind you, with the Samsons I wasn't able to hear his footsteps, whereas with the AD700 I did. I doubt these would suffice for a hardcore multi-player online competitive gamer, but for a casual gamer or even a casually competitive gamer, I don't see how you can go wrong with them, especially when you factor in the price.
> 
> Regarding the bass, according to the reviews, these are supposed to have a decent amount of bass. Strangley, there was none to be found when I palyed Metal Gear Online, the online component of MGS4. So I popped in MGS4 and went straight to a scene where there's tons of explosions all around you, again no bass...at all. I tried a few other such scenes, but still couldn't hear any bass. I am not sure if it's the game or what's going on, because as I said before these are supposed to have good bass. I don't have any other games to test them out with so I might download some demos later this week and see if I can hear some.


----------



## keenween

Question: If I have a receiver performing dolby headphone, will voice chat come through too? I'm getting back into pc gaming and trying to get setup. I think I might be using teamspeak. Now, if voice would pass through, can I control the volume level of voice at the computer side (in-game options or teamspeak options?) since I won't have a knob like the astromix? Or would I just have to plug into motherboard for voice stuff and forgo dolby headphone when doing team play?


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





keenween said:


> Question: If I have a receiver performing dolby headphone, will voice chat come through too? I'm getting back into pc gaming and trying to get setup. I think I might be using teamspeak. Now, if voice would pass through, can I control the volume level of voice at the computer side (in-game options or teamspeak options?) since I won't have a knob like the astromix? Or would I just have to plug into motherboard for voice stuff and forgo dolby headphone when doing team play?


 

 If you have it set up right it should.  You just need to point the teamspeak client's output to the receiver as well.  Most games also have built in volume controls as well.


----------



## Hailin

SSX live stream on ign right now MLE.


----------



## Riku540

Not a fan myself, but figured some would appreciate...
   
  Modern Warfare 3 for PS3 and 360 for $39.99 on Amazon Gold Box as a Lightning Deal:
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=cs_top_nav_gb27


----------



## nfnity

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What do you mean? Headphones don't sound like headphones?
> edit: wait, it utilizes head tracking like the Headzone Pro... nah, I don't want that. I just want something that recreated a full surround sound in your headphones for gaming. That head tracking is useless for that purpose, as your head should generally always be pointing towards the screen anyways... you ARE gaming.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 MLE: about the german video review of the headzone. The reviewer is very enthusiastic about them, practically blown away. The thing is, he's quite experienced with gaming headsets, but I get the impression he hasn't tried hi-fi phones for gaming before. He says the mmx are the best phones he ever heard. He does say, that the mixamp is also very good and way more practical in terms of price. He recommended the headzone for people who seriously consider dropping that much cash for audio components, but calls it totally out of reach for most. There was no thorough comparison between the two amps. He did say, he had two mmxs at the time, so he could switch between the headzone and astro output easily and frequently. Still no big differences to talk about, it seems. His final verdict is, that the headzone is definitely the best thing, especially if you're gonna use it for blurays as well. I think you should make sure, you can return them without a loss, if you decide the extra cash is not worth it. More so as it seems, you might have to give an arm and a leg - or worse - your dt990 for it.


----------



## keenween

Quote: 





phos said:


> If you have it set up right it should.  You just need to point the teamspeak client's output to the receiver as well.  Most games also have built in volume controls as well.


 


  Thanks for the confirmation!


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thanks for those impressions Naked Snake. I could definitely understand your wording, so don't discredit yourself.


 

  
  Thanks MLE 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, your thread is the reason I got into the headphone game, and I am glad I did, just wish I had done it sooner. I need to stop coming back though. The more I read this thread, the more I am itching for an upgrade 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I already had my eye on the DT990 but now I am getting curious about the Q701. I'm gonna hold back though, for now that is.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> I need to stop coming back though. The more I read this thread, the more I am itching for an upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Resistance is futile


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Resistance is futile


 


  Unfortunately, for my wallet that is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, you sir are correct. Eventually, I will give in.


----------



## p0wah

I am currently stuck between to headphones for competitive gaming (counter-strike) and bass-heavy music. 
   
  Creative Aurvana Live! or Ultrasone HFI-580
   
  Which between these have better soundstage and what one has better bass?
   
  As soon as i find out i will pull the trigger and buy one of the 2!
   
  Thanks!
   
  EDIT : Ugh nevermind i think im just gonna have to save up for a Fiio E7 and some Beyerdynamic DT990 ^^ Almost £200 here in the UK! Daaaamn


----------



## thefranklin

I also want to say thanks to MLE. I first read through the AVS forum thread, but got disappointed over the last few hundred posts, so I am really glad I found this.  I almost started to believe Turtle Beach was the best...  For the last 3 weeks or so I have read a lot, but was given a very limited budget to work with .
   
  I ended up putting in an order for the Samson SR850 last night.  Was looking for the best under 60$ open headphones (need to hear the baby wailing/wife yelling) and that seemed like a good one.  Currently playing BF3 on the pc with standard onboard sound.  I do have a Yamaha receiver with Silent Cinema laying around, so I will have to try that out.  It will have to be better than the Logitech behind the head earphones (with the pads long gone, man they hurt).  I am thinking of ripping the mic out of them, but I doubt that will end pretty.
   
  I do have a question:  anyone with DH used Mumble on the pc with positional audio?  I have thus far found out that it uses DirectSound 3D, but can't tell if it would output a 5.1 signal for use with DH.  And it would seem the only way to get it into DH would be through a sound card and not the mixamp (unless Dolby Live works with that, but who knows!).


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





p0wah said:


> EDIT : Ugh nevermind i think im just gonna have to save up for a Fiio E7 and some Beyerdynamic DT990 ^^ Almost £200 here in the UK! Daaaamn


 

 Question, don't you already have an Asus Xonar DG soundcard? If that's so what's the E7 for? If you need a portable amplifier the E11 is cheaper and better.
   
  Using the E7 as a source will bypass your soundcard, negating any virtual surround affects your soundcard may be providing.


----------



## p0wah

Quote: 





riku540 said:


> Question, don't you already have an Asus Xonar DG soundcard? If that's so what's the E7 for? If you need a portable amplifier the E11 is cheaper and better.
> 
> Using the E7 as a source will bypass your soundcard, negating any virtual surround affects your soundcard may be providing.


 


  Yeah i do have the Xonar DG but it only powers up to 150 Ohms. Im looking at getting the DT990 250 Ohms so i need the E7 right? If i dont need it that would be great but i dont know xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the E7 will bypass the soundcard, rendering the surround processing useless. You just want to attach an amp to the Xonar. The E11 is better than the E7's amp section, and the E9 is even better than either, especially for the DT990s.


----------



## Riku540

^ Exactly.
   
  You have your products mixed up. The E7 is a DAC, basically a soundcard WITH an amp. But you don't need the DAC, so you can get the E11, which is a far better amp than the E7, and cheaper too.


----------



## p0wah

Oh, i didnt know that. Awesome so ill just go for the E11 then. Thanks for all your help guys, so glad ive finally figured out what i want/need.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





thefranklin said:


> I do have a question:  anyone with DH used Mumble on the pc with positional audio?  I have thus far found out that it uses DirectSound 3D, but can't tell if it would output a 5.1 signal for use with DH.  And it would seem the only way to get it into DH would be through a sound card and not the mixamp (unless Dolby Live works with that, but who knows!).





   
  Why the heck does Mumble use DirectSound3D instead of OpenAL? That makes zero sense for a cross-platform application like that, and such an actively-developed one at that. (And yes, I read up on it on its page.)
   
  Regardless, if that's the case, you'll have to use a wrapper like ALchemy or 3DSoundBack to get proper positional audio in the first place on Vista or Win7, otherwise it gets knocked down to basic stereo.
   
  I'll try messing with it for a bit, though the sound clip it uses for testing isn't exactly the best for gauging positional audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

p0wah said:


> Oh, i didnt know that. Awesome so ill just go for the E11 then. Thanks for all your help guys, so glad ive finally figured out what i want/need.




Also depends on which DT990 you're getting. If you're getting the 600ohm, don't get anything less than the E9. The other versions will be fine with the E11.


----------



## suitheist

Hey,
   
  I've been reading through this thread and its been a massive healp in narrowing my possible choices. Basically i'm looking for an all purpose headphone which does my music (pop, rock, classical- in that order) and games and films in DH.
   
  I'm down to the HD 598 and K/Q701 at this point. I notice that people say the AKG has more clarity and precision than the Sennheiser. This sounds attractive for gaming in DH, but I wonder whether it is worth it if it is going to be _too _revealing for my music. I mostly listen through Spotify and, though I don't currently have a set up which I can test this on, I assume that even set to high quality streaming (allegedly 320kbs), it will get found out by the K701?
   
  Second point is price: in the UK the HD 598 is approx £170, the K7xx £210 and the Q701 £265. I don't have an amp yet, so i would need to buy one for the AKGs. I don't think my budget will do the Q701 and an amp atm and i'm not convinced that its worth the mark up (to me) over the K7xx anyway.
   
  So, ultimately, would the improvement in DH clarity (and, indeed, in music as well) be worth the extra money for the K701 (+ say an E9), and not make my streamed music sound terrible, to justify going for it over the HD 598?
   
  This is my first serious headpohone purchase.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would personally go for the HD598, as it's less polarizing than the AKGs, and less demanding. Though I have not heard the Quincy Jones versions which might put the AKGs over the HD598 for general purposes.

There is a lot of hate for the AKGs for music here on Head-fi. The HD598 is quite popular.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





suitheist said:


> Hey,
> 
> I've been reading through this thread and its been a massive healp in narrowing my possible choices. Basically i'm looking for an all purpose headphone which does my music (pop, rock, classical- in that order) and games and films in DH.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Food for thought:
   
  Would you buy an SDTV/monitor to mask the compression artifacts in streaming video/YouTube, over an HDTV/monitor?
   
  If not, why would you do it with headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder how good the quality is on those streaming sites. I wonder if it's like 192kb or better. If it is, I'd be okay with any headphone. People worry too much about bit rates and not enough about the actual mastering of the track. Plenty of less than savory bitrates that sound better than badly recorded FLAC tracks.

Of course, good mastering and bitrates = YAY.


----------



## Riku540

Google Music streams 320kbps given that your songs are at 320kbps. Love it when I'm on the go, or don't have my lossless library with me. Can't wait for true FLAC support, but probably won't happen considering the drastic increase in bandwidth requirements, across how many millions of users.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean like Spotify and Pandora.... what are their MP3 bitrate equivalents?

I don't listen to streaming anyway, but it's good to know.


----------



## Riku540

http://bit.ly/yTUZ3K
   
  Quote:


> What quality does Spotify stream in?  We use the Ogg Vorbis format for streaming. There are three quality ratings that we use:
> 
> 
> q3 (~96 kbps)
> ...


 
   
  http://bit.ly/xIErHw
   
  Quote: 





> Audio Quality
> 
> Pandora on the Web plays 64k AAC+ for free listeners and 192k for Pandora One subscribers. All in-home devices play 128k audio, and mobile devices receive a variety of different rates depending on the capability of the device and the network they are on, but never more than 64k AAC+.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm assuming that 64K AAC+ is the equivalent of 128kb MP3.


----------



## suitheist

I have never had any complaints about the SQ of Spotify on the high quality setting, but then my current headphones/ stereo aren't anything special. As a service, its very slick and, I would say, very good value. For me, its basically a very cost effective way of getting all the new music as it comes out. Of course, I still have and use my collection of older songs (CD rips) on my PC. Though, I dont know how much bandwidth Spotify uses. I haven't tried any of the other streaming services.
   
  The other headphone I considered was the DT 880, but im a bit put off by the lack of directional cues from behind which you noted in your original post. I really love the 360 degree immersion effect you get in DH; i'm currently playing through Dead Space with it- which is brilliant (and more than a little unnerving) for ambient noise, footsteps, agonising screems etc coming from all directions- and i'm not willing to lose that from my games. That said, I would like to find a nice balance between getting the directional details and some of the other immerive effects like bass for explosions etc. I think in reality, i'd rather be able to believe i'm actually there in the game, than max my kill/death ratio in mp fps.


----------



## Naingolann

I've been told that the Q701 do not require double amp because the mixamp/DSS can drive 'em properly...Though, you could always buy the second amp sometime later if you feel like it.


----------



## suitheist

I should probably have said that i'm playing on a PC using the Xonar DG which i think tops out its amp at 150 ohms. I don't know how this compares to the mixamp or DSS though.
   
  I asked on the Q701 appreciation thread whether they were easier to drive than the K701, but I was told they have the same driver and would be exactly the same in that respect.


----------



## Hailin

I got my HD598 and put them through the musical ringer last night. I don't know if it was and is just my mood (due to a nice wet cold winter.) or what it is. But I am just not that impressed with them. I wanted to be blown away. I wanted to walk over to my HD668's and say goodbye old friend and put them in my electronic graveyard.
  Some one on a another thread described them as smooth and polite that is what they definitely are. They don't have the bass impact or the brightness of the HD668's. They do have the resolution detail, soundstage and mids over the HD668. I was picking a lot of different stuff out of my music that I had never heard before. Mainly vocal details like S's and P's. Also high hats and other cymbals just scream "We are here." With the HD598's but not in a nasty sibilant nature. Due to the soundstage live songs sound a lot better.
  If was stuck on a desert island with these headphones and could only bring one artist it would be Portishead. They were the only thing in my collection that excited me.
   
  This is a case of either I need an amp now or they are just not for me.
   
  If Denon sold the D-series in Canada I would be ordering now. I am still tempted to get the 990pros to at least try them out. I know I could put my HD598's up for sale and get 200+ for them since they are so hard to find up here for under 270 and I don't want to go through the hassle of returning them south of the border.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I mentioned it before, the HD598 isn't a terribly exciting can. They are what i consider boring for music, but they work exceptionally well for hardcore gaming.

This is why it's a good idea to always have a set of fun cans that are exciting, even if they aren't technically going to win awards. I will always choose a fun can for music over balanced, boring cans.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There is a lot of hate for the AKGs for music here on Head-fi.


 
   
  Quoted for truth.  And I don't know why


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quoted for truth.  And I don't know why


 


  Indeed... lot of haters here.
  I tested my K702+Lyr against E9+DT990/600, and to MY ears, they had the same amazing bass. Sounded VERY good with many music (specially daft punk hehe).
   
  ppl here tend to overreact to everything, from good to bad aspects to cans  (ed8 were not so long the best closed cans money can buy, and now lots of ppl bashes them for signature pro).
   
  And for PS3 games... I think I have not finished a single game so far hahaha ... 
  MGS4 closed since 2009
  MGS HDCollection closed since december
  Tekken 6 never finished campaign
  GT5 still in its box
  KZ3 haven't played yet
  KZ2 never finished campaign
  CoD BLOPS never finished campaign
  Dead Space player 1 hour
  GoW 3 never played it...
  .. i forgot what else I have
   
  damn... i don't know why I even bought the PS3 or mixamp.
   
  don't have kids if you want to play


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Quoted for truth.  And I don't know why




Impressions, nao!


----------



## suitheist

Well, i went out to a shop which i found selling all the headphones ive been looking at. Unfortunately, they didnt actually have the DT880, HD598 or K/Q7xx to try when i went in, though ill go back when they come back into stock.
   
  However, i did try the DT990, HD600 and 650. For starters, they were quite a different experience to anything id tried before, and I actually found the hour I spent listening to them pretty tiring. Maybe that was the lack of amp and high volume levels, or im just not used to them.
   
  I REALLY didn't like the DT990; it had way more bass than im used to, and on the high notes it sort of sounded like it was breaking up. 
   
  I loved the 600, they were definitely my favourite of the three; masses of detail and they sounded incredible on my classical guitar music (ive never heard the sound of the artist's fingers sliding along the strings before!), random pop, everything really.
   
  The 650 was pretty similar, but er... wooly sounding? Not sure how better to describe it.
   
  So, are the 598 or the K7xx on similar lines to the hd600? In fact, how is the 600 in DH, particularly in terms of soundstage and positioning?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Hmmm... I tried the Westone 4 with the mix amp and it worked really well... very airy and clear.  I could tell where everything was coming from.  Maybe some IEMs for gaming?


----------



## rivalyoung

Great info OP! I have a Mixamp 5.8 + HD650 coming in the mail, and both are going to be fed by a Fiio E10. I used to be an ultra competitive gamer when I was younger (was sponsored for Counter-Strike) but have since grown out of that phase. Now that I have a career and such I have time to burn on competitive FPS'ing again and your info's been helpful. Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





rivalyoung said:


> Great info OP! I have a Mixamp 5.8 + HD650 coming in the mail, and *both are going to be fed by a Fiio E10.*


 
   
  Mixamp fed by the E10?  That won't work...you wouldn't get surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, you don't want to feed anything but an optical cable directly from the source to the Mixamp so you can keep the Dolby Digital signal to properly convert to Dolby Headphone.

As for IEMs for gaming, I did rate the Hifiman RE0s. They were very ideal for competitive gaming due to they very neutral sound signature. Of course, soundstage was lacking compared to full sized cans, but they still functioned well overall.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Impressions, nao!


 


  I'll have a lengthy review up later tonight, so you'll just have to wait....


----------



## tdockweiler

Wow, I just did a conversion on those prices and they're crazy! No way I'd pay that much for a Q701 or HD-598.
  IMO I don't think the Q701 is worth an extra $100 on top of the K702. Here in the USA they're about the same.
   
  What's funny is that in the past I REALLY disliked the K702/K701 for gaming, but now I use the Q701.
  Seems at least the soundstage is now a little bit better however this is. Just seems more accurate.
  Skyrim is very impressive with the Q701 and I spent about 60 hours in it with just the Q701.
   
  The HD-598 would be my second choice.
   
  Q701 can be used without an amp, but it's not suggested. I don't find Q701 so revealing that it makes any of my music sound like garbage. It's not as revealing to me as a DT-880 or KNS-8400. Those are good at making my collection sound like junk when it feels like it. Q701 is a tiny bit more forgiving.
   
  If you don't listen to anything outside streaming music services, the Q701 might be a bit overkill at those prices.
   
  Have you considered something even cheaper?
   
  You should find a store that has the KRK KNS-8400 for demo. I've found that my pair sounds very very similar to the Q701 for gaming. More people should try this thing for gaming. It does a few things better than the Q701 actually and it's dirt cheap here in the USA. Gets my vote as one of the best closed headphones there is for competitive gaming that doesn't cost a fortune. It's signature is similar to the Q701.
   
  They should be super easy to find in the UK I think. Probably not too expensive either.
   
  Quote: 





suitheist said:


> Hey,
> 
> I've been reading through this thread and its been a massive healp in narrowing my possible choices. Basically i'm looking for an all purpose headphone which does my music (pop, rock, classical- in that order) and games and films in DH.
> 
> ...


----------



## Phos

So I recently realized that I have Dirt 2 and F1 2010, both of which include support for a free version of Rapture 3D.  It's too bad that Dirt 2 sounds like "veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh" and F1 2010 sounds like "raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah" and then sometimes a British person yells at you.  
   
  Jokes aside when I get some more free time I'll see if I can do a decent comparison between it and CMSS-3D.  I'd use my DSS to compare it to Dolby Headphone, but I'm not expecting it to do very well versus a couple of true binaural systems.  Initial impressions:  I really wish this would be a bigger deal than it is.  There are also a couple of demos on youtube of it in action:
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikd_hucZbY    <- some generic sounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqqiIR017SQ    <- UT3 demo
   
And hnnnnnnnnnnnn   why isn't this out!?
   
  Take 3 pictures of yourself and you've got a personalized HRTF profile.


----------



## iHasCake

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> Indeed... lot of haters here.
> I tested my K702+Lyr against E9+DT990/600, and to MY ears, they had the same amazing bass. Sounded VERY good with many music (specially daft punk hehe).


 


  wait...you're saying with the Lyr your k702 produced bass?  as in actual thumping bass?  i'm asking seriously as i've never tried or even considered to try the k701 mainly because i read all over head-fi that they pretty much sound like empty tin cans when trying to reproduce bass...  i'm interested also because i've always only bought closed cans and now that i've got my own room for an office i can finally try some open cans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't find the K701 to be thin on bass the way the AD700 is. The K701 is quite full, just very polite, giving up a lot of ground for very pronounced mids. The K701 can certainly thump with some good authority under the right circumstance. I wouldn't put them on DT990 levels though, nor even DT880 levels. Still, it is there, and some bass boosting actually ends up making the K701 sound well balanced due to raised bass, mids pulled back to this world, and pleasing, yet inoffensive highs (imo).

Let me be more clear. The K701 is gonna come off as bass light for most of us (myself included). That isn't because they don't have the ability to output some good bass. Just that they aren't tuned for bass. The drivers surely are capable for good bass if you EQ or bass boost them. Hell, I actually REALLY enjoyed the K701 with the Fiio E5 with bass boost. Yup, just that little amp made the K701 sound great to me, even better than the E9 personally.

If going what people say about the Q701 is true, I bet that retuning the K701 for more bass was the end product, and I would actually like the Q701 for more than just gaming (probably as much as the DT880s).


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> wait...you're saying with the Lyr your k702 produced bass?  as in actual thumping bass?  i'm asking seriously as i've never tried or even considered to try the k701 mainly because i read all over head-fi that they pretty much sound like empty tin cans when trying to reproduce bass...  i'm interested also because i've always only bought closed cans and now that i've got my own room for an office i can finally try some open cans.


 


  That's the beauty of tubes: Different tubes, different sounds.
   
  Me and my friend to whom I sold the DT990/E7/E9 did some testing with K702 + Lyr with Lorenz tubes, and the bass was really, really great.
  With different tubes (Mullards, Valvo), the bass was better than using E9, but not in the same level with the Lorenz tubes.
  Unfortunately, Lyr+ tubes cost ~$600.
   
  Before selling the DT990, I lent him DT990/E9 for a month and I only listened to K702 and Lyr at my desk 
   
  But if people say Q701 has better bass, well, that's something worth trying...
   
  My point is don't assume K702 sux just because ppl here claim they do. With the right amp, those cans can do wonders.
   
  And for competitive gaming... really great.
   
  I must check LCD2 and Ed8 for gaming too.... someday... when I can use my PS3 for gaming again haha


----------



## iHasCake

I'm pretty much looking for something more immersive than anything. Seeing your post about getting the K701 to produce a fuller sound akin to maybe the DT990 or D7000 was very interesting to me. I've recently upgraded to a D7000 and have been seeing if there was something like it with that "open" sound. I have to say, coming from a HD555, the D7000 blew my mind. But of course like a true head-fi'er I'm already looking for the next best thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't expect the AKGs to come remotely close to giving you a full sound like the D7000s. Not even close.

The fullest sound out of open cans are probably going to come from something like the HD650. The DT990 has a full sound too, though the mids sound thin.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





ihascake said:


> I'm pretty much looking for something more immersive than anything. Seeing your post about getting the K701 to produce a fuller sound akin to maybe the DT990 or D7000 was very interesting to me. I've recently upgraded to a D7000 and have been seeing if there was something like it with that "open" sound. I have to say, coming from a HD555, the D7000 blew my mind. But of course like a true head-fi'er I'm already looking for the next best thing.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Don't expect the AKGs to come remotely close to giving you a full sound like the D7000s. Not even close.
> The fullest sound out of open cans are probablygoing to come from something like the HD650. The DT990 has a full sound too, though the mids sound thin.


 

 The DT990s are probably your best choice if you want openness, immersion, and positioning.  I've had the HD650 and the DT990 and the Beyer has more mid bass, a bigger overall soundstage, and more 3D positioning but you still might prefer the HD650 if you're sensitive to treble.


----------



## chicolom

Here you go:  DT990 vs Q701...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review#post_8092130


----------



## chicolom

Here's an excerpt ^ of the gaming comparison
   
  DT990 vs Q701: Gaming (with Dolby Headphone)   

 Those who have used Dolby headphone know that it very slightly smooth the highs.  The Q's highs are already smooth enough in stereo, so they don't need this.  It takes away some of their "air", which they don't have that much of to begin with.  The DT990s DO need this smoothing.  They still need even more smoothing though IMO.
   

 When gaming with Dolby Headphone the DT990 keeps up better with the Q701 then it does in plain stereo.  The DT990's soundstage gets a good deal larger with DH than it does in stereo mode.  I think the treble gives it some extra reach. 
   

 In Dolby Headphone the Q701 soundstage is still a little better.  The soundstage sounds a bit more diffuse, coherent, and fluid with the Q701s where the DT990 sounds a little more disconnected.  In other words, it's harder to hear where  one virtual speaker ends and the other begins with the Q's (which make them a little more immersive for me), whereas the DT990s it's a bit more obvious that it's jumping from one to the other.  Again, probably related to the angled drivers. 
   

 Positioning is pretty good on the DT990s, although objects out in front of you don't sound quite as nice as on the Q701s due to the DT990s having less depth and less front imaging.  Probably goes back to what I said about the DT990 soundstage being more left-right centric in stereo wile the Q701s present a better and deeper image in front of you (angled drivers, again).
   

 Overall I'd rate the Q701 positioning/imaging a bit better, and separation a bit better on DT990s. 
   

 The DT990 has less mids and more highs, so it can etch out and outline objects a bit sharper/better (sort of like AD700s), but they sound sort of hollow and artificial to me, and the placement sounds a bit better on the Q701s.  The fuller mids on the Q701 gives objects more body and mass, although they aren't as sharply outlined as on the DT990s. 
   

 I actually think the Q's have more of a home-theater-like sound than the DT990s.  The flatter/less colored response of the Q's sounds more speaker like than the elevated highs of the DT990 (speakers shouldn't be producing that much treble).  The DT990s low end response is nice, but the leaner mids make them lose some weight to the sound.  The  Q701s have nearly the same bass but more body and weight to the mids.
   

 I'd say the Q701s are still the most fun and immersive gaming can's I've tried, although they're not quite the best competive/fps cans I've tried.  The AD700s still have the best raw positioning, and the PC360s are very good as well. I actually prefer the DT880s signature more for gaming than the DT990s.  I bet the T1s would be fantastic (angled drivers FTW).
   

 The Q701s _can_ be run straight off the MixAmp, even when mixing in chat.  I will say that their soundstage clearly benefits when double amping with my M-stage.  The M-stage increases the Q701's soundstage size a bit past PC360 size and closer to AD700 size, and the imaging/positioning got better as well. The Q701s didn't benefit when adding in my E9 amp though. 
   

 I didn't try to run the 600 ohm DT990 straight off the MixAmp, and you probably shouldn't either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now you make me wanna try the Q701. But I'm sticking to my DT990s. 

I have no doubt the Q701 trumps the DT990 is soundstage and positioning. The AKGs were just godly in this regard.

So perhaps, the Q701 should be the new all purpose gaming can that doesn't need an extra amp. I just won't say so until I've heard it myself.

Anyone wants to loan me a pair, I'll happily put them to the test. 

Edit: Hmm... are they really fun for music? Because considering how I don't have much use for the DT990 now that I have the D7000s, I might benefit more from the AKGs.

What scares me is that they'll sound reminiscent to the K701 which I hated for music, unless I raped them with bass boosts from the E5 and E7.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... are they really fun for music? Because considering how I don't have much use for the DT990 now that I have the D7000s, I might benefit more from the AKGs.
> What scares me is that they'll sound reminiscent to the K701 which I hated for music, unless I raped them with bass boosts from the E5 and E7.


 


  What didn't you like about the K701 for music?  Bass issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the bass didn't have the quantity I desired, and the mids were artificial sounding. Treble and bass QUALITY were great though.


----------



## suitheist

Hmmm, people seem to have varying opinions about how much the q701 differs from the K7xx. 
   
  I have now been shown a pair of the K701s at £165 delivered, which is exactly £100 cheaper than the cheapest Q701 I have seen. I'm finding it hard to resist jumping in at that price. Is the Q701 THAT much better?
   
  From what everyone says about the DT 990 i feel like it OUGHT to be ideal for what I want, but when I went to try it (the pro version) the level of bass seemed overwhelming to me. But then, I'm not used to anything much beyond ear buds really.
   
  Given that Im not used to serious bass, maybe i wouldn't notice anything missing on the K701? And i've read that they get better with amping and burn in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

suitheist said:


> Hmmm, people seem to have varying opinions about how much the q701 differs from the K7xx.
> 
> I have now been shown a pair of the K701s at £165 delivered, which is exactly £100 cheaper than the cheapest Q701 I have seen. I'm finding it hard to resist jumping in at that price. Is the Q701 THAT much better?
> 
> ...




The DT990 Pros bass was overwhelming to me too, but the Premium DT990 was perfect.


----------



## suitheist

When you raped them with bassboosts they sounded good? Whats wrong with EQing them to get the sound you want? Did it mess up other aspects of the sound?
   
  Again, for some reason the premium dt990 is £100 more expensive than the pro- which just seems hard to justify to me. I mean, if as people say it the clamping force that does it, why cant you just buy the pros and loosen up the headband a bit?


----------



## chicolom

Ya, I don't think the DT990 600 bass is overwhelming.  It's tight and doesn't intrude over the other frequencies.  That was one of the things that worried me before I tried it.  The treble is an issue though for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, I thought the K701 was great with the E5's bass boost, as well as with the E7's EQ2 and EQ3. I'm sure that's quite a bit more bass than the stock Q701 though. Those two amps however didn't give them enough juice to drive them properly. I bet the E17 with the pre-amp option for bass boosting out to the E9 would do wonders to the K701/2. But then, it wouldn't sound like the K701/2, lol. Those levels of bass boosting completely alters the sound to something else entirely.

Wish I had the Lyr at the time I owned the K701, but I had sold them prior to getting the Lyr.


----------



## jghost23

I got my PC 360s and my mixamp and I'm enjoying them so far. Trying to adjust to the signature for once in my life quality. I have one pun with this setup. For some reason, the clarity on voicechat is not that good. In fact, it's difficult to hear/understand people at times. Any clue to why that is?


----------



## suitheist

Do you think they would sound as good with an E11 and software EQ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AKGs need quite a bit of power to sing. I'm sure they'd sound good off the E11 and it's bass boosting, but they deserve better.

As for the PC360's voice chat, it's very clear for me, though for me to hear EVERYONE else, I tone down in game audio so voices aren't trampled by the game audio. Like CoD, I drastically turn down in game music, and I set my mixamp to power voice chat a bit more than game audio.


----------



## obazavil

thanks for the review!


----------



## jghost23

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The AKGs need quite a bit of power to sing. I'm sure they'd sound good off the E11 and it's bass boosting, but they deserve better.
> As for the PC360's voice chat, it's very clear for me, though for me to hear EVERYONE else, I tone down in game audio so voices aren't trampled by the game audio. Like CoD, I drastically turn down in game music, and I set my mixamp to power voice chat a bit more than game audio.


 


  Ok, I'll attempt that and see how it works.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The problem with voice mixing is that if you set game and voice audio to 50/50, they struggle to get your attention at the same time. For the purpose of chatting, it's just logical to tone down game audio so you can hear your friends. Like the Mixamp, I set it to like 70% voice/30% game audio.


----------



## Phos

Alright, so I found out about a relatively new software HRTF called "MyEars", what sets this one apart is that you use a web (flash) application to create your own HRTF profile.  Interestingly, both it and the company behind Fmod are out of the same town in Australia, so newer Fmod games will have built in support for it.  I'm not sure if that means true binaural or not, but I've been testing out my profile in TF2 (a game with its own software sound, so it's a pretty even field for binaural vs. virtual surround), and so far I'm rather impressed.  I'm trying to tell if I have any games that have a new enough version of Fmod to support it natively, and if these games give you true binaural audio.


----------



## maverickronin

How is that supposed to work?  Is it like some sort of virtual sound driver?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm assuming that's PC only, rendering it useless for me, personally.


----------



## maverickronin

I hope its some kind of virtual sound driver so I can use it with everything on my PC like my video player, youtube, etc...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It is, but it doesn't sound quite quite right for me. It's a pain in the ass to calibrate too.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What scares me is that they'll sound reminiscent to the K701 which I hated for music, unless I raped them with bass boosts from the E5 and E7.


 


  If you hated the K701 for music, the Q701 you probably won't like. I've found the differences quite large (around 10% improvement), but not enough to make people suddenly love the Q701.
  To me, the Q701 just fixes some of the issues I had with the K702. The whole 3 of them.
   
  I don't suggest buying them, but just try them if you ever get a chance. I was never a fan of the K702 for gaming, but love the Q701 for gaming. Most people might find that hard to believe!
  Same amps and everything.
   
  My Q701 seems much warmer and fuller sounding than my old K702. The soundstage also feels a lot more accurate and not artificially huge. Not sure how AKG pulled that off.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It is, but it doesn't sound quite quite right for me. It's a pain in the ass to calibrate too.


 

 Cool.  I'm at work right now so I can't mess with it.  I'll have to try it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was on the first test for like 15 minutes before skipping it. The positioning doesn't feel right no matter what I did.


----------



## maverickronin

Its still worth a try at least.


----------



## dexvx

What's the deal with the Q701 pricing? Amazon has it for $230-250 (apparently no one likes lime green). Other places have it for $350+.
   
  Is there some kind of promotion going on for the q701?


----------



## tdockweiler

They've been under $250 or quite awhile. If you're patient it's easy to find a pair for even cheaper as an open box from Amazon Warehouse deals. I scored my pair for $235 about 3 months ago. Listed as like new, but wasn't even open. Just had a big dent in the box.
   
  I wish they came in white with the same color of pads as found on the K701.
   
  Kind of annoying how the color you want is always priced higher. Wanted the white colored one for some reason.
  
  Quote: 





dexvx said:


> What's the deal with the Q701 pricing? Amazon has it for $230-250 (apparently no one likes lime green). Other places have it for $350+.
> 
> Is there some kind of promotion going on for the q701?


----------



## chicolom

_double post_


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Edit: Hmm... are they really fun for music? Because considering how I don't have much use for the DT990 now that I have the D7000s, I might benefit more from the AKGs.
> What scares me is that they'll sound reminiscent to the K701 which I hated for music, unless I raped them with bass boosts from the E5 and E7.
> 
> ....Yeah, the bass didn't have the quantity I desired, and the mids were artificial sounding. Treble and bass QUALITY were great though.


 

 I like them A LOT for music.  But If you hated the K701, I'm not sure they could change your opinion much.  I think the bass is perfect, not too much and not too little.  If you look at the headroom graph for them, that's what you can expect.  I don't think the DT990's have too much either.  The CALs, do have too much for classical music, but are still OK for other genres - although If I listen to them for _too _long they could probably give me a headache.
   
  I don't know about the artificial mids, I'm not really sure what that means/sounds like.


----------



## Hailin

Well the HD 598 are going to market. I just can't take the sound signature and the pads. I know people say that they are some of the most comfortable around I was constantly irritated by the shape and where they clamped. Which is weird because the clamping wasn't hard or painful. I just found myself adjusting them constantly and was never happy with the position. I keep going back to my Superlux with those cheap awful round pads. So oval is out for me. Back to the drawing board.
   
  I think I need to do some reading and research some comparisons between some Beyers and AKG's. More rum first though.
   
  Quick question though will the E17 play nice with the mixamp? Will the dac in it strip Dolby Headphone from the mixamp? I know they are probably stupid questions but I thought I would ask anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You absolutely cannot use a DAC with the Mixamp. With the E17, all you will be using is the internal amp. Also, always use the Mixamp as the first part of the audio chain connected directly to the source so Dolby Headphone can be processed.


edit: Guys, looks like I'm shifting priorities. I'm returning the DT990/600, and cancelling the Audio-GD stuff. I will be keeping my D7000.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> edit: Guys, looks like I'm shifting priorities. I'm returning the DT990/600, and cancelling the Audio-GD stuff. I will be keeping my D7000.


 


  LOL, your still in the amazon return window?!  That's funny. 
   
  Money issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the holidays extended the return window to January 31st. I'll send the DT990 out tomorrow.

What I'm gonna do is probably settle for the Matrix M Stage and a decent DAC like the E17. I realize I don't listen THAT much to my headphones on my computer desk, to warrant spending over $1000 on equipment.

I will most likely deal with the E7/E9 for now, replace the DAC soon-ish, and MAYBE get the Headzone, as the Mixamp+Headphones IS something I use frequently.

This leaves me with a space open for an open headphone, and I rather deal with something a bit easier to drive. This way I can pick up a cheaper amp to drive both the D7000 and open cans that don't need THAT much power. Might consider the Q701. I realize the DT990 is competing too much with the D7000, so something else would be better.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What I'm gonna do is probably settle for the Matrix M Stage and a decent DAC like the E17. I realize I don't listen THAT much to my headphones on my computer desk, to warrant spending over $1000 on equipment.
> 
> I will most likely deal with the E7/E9 for now, replace the DAC soon-ish, and MAYBE get the Headzone, as the Mixamp+Headphones IS something I use frequently.
> 
> This leaves me with a space open for an open headphone, and I rather deal with something a bit easier to drive. This way I can pick up a cheaper amp to drive both the D7000 and open cans that don't need THAT much power. Might consider the Q701. I realize the DT990 is competing too much with the D7000, so something else would be better.


 

 That sounds like a good plan.  I didn't think the D7000 needed that much DAC/amp anyways. 
   
  I might suggest selling the PC360s too for some extra cash, maybe look into the antlion modmic instead if you still need to chat. 
   
  Maybe you should start saving up for some T1s, HD700/800, etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I wonder which would bring more improvement, flagship headphones, or the headzone plus mid-fi phones...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would love the T1, but they are as hard to drive as the DT990s, so it's moot. I don't wanna deal with something too hard to drive anymore. Seriously, I should build my rig around the D7000 which is stupid easy to drive. I would benefit more from a good DAC than a beefy amp. A pair of headphones that can be driven well off the Headzone and/or Mixamp. 

I'd have to sell the PC360 at a loss, due to the torn headband padding.... Maybe could get $110 for them here. I would sell them though.

The headzone would undoubtedly impress me more for gaming/movies, as it'd get more use as I'm in my room more than I'm on my computer desk listening to music.


http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full

Fully built Objective O2, which is said to rival the B22... hmm... for the price, looks like this is what I want. The only thing that irks me is that it uses 3.5mm headphone jack.


----------



## Hailin

Thanks for the info MLE! Now to find a decent price on the Q701 in Canada
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You absolutely cannot use a DAC with the Mixamp. With the E17, all you will be using is the internal amp. Also, always use the Mixamp as the first part of the audio chain connected directly to the source so Dolby Headphone can be processed.
> edit: Guys, looks like I'm shifting priorities. I'm returning the DT990/600, and cancelling the Audio-GD stuff. I will be keeping my D7000.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The headzone would undoubtedly impress me more for gaming/movies, as it'd get more use as I'm in my room more than I'm on my computer desk listening to music.


 


  Hmm.. actually the headzone should have a beefy amp in it.  I wonder if it has analog inputs for a DAC.  If you didn't mind unplugging it, you could just use that as a music amp.


----------



## jghost23

I'm going to try this to night but the funny thing is I did not have that problem with the Sony PS3 Wireless headset. Voice was extremely clear, with no muffle. I could make out nearly everything people said with the volume set 50/50 (voice/game) and about 70% overall volume turned up. Anyways, I'll try tweaking the settings tonight on the mixamp to find a sweet spot. I just find it counterproductive to spend this amount of money for SQ and then only ave 30% game volume. That would make it very difficult to hear footsteps or other alarming sounds.
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The problem with voice mixing is that if you set game and voice audio to 50/50, they struggle to get your attention at the same time. For the purpose of chatting, it's just logical to tone down game audio so you can hear your friends. Like the Mixamp, I set it to like 70% voice/30% game audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chicolom, seriously? I dunno what its capable of, though it has a 100ohm output impedance which SHOULD in head-fi terms be awful for low ohm cans,which makes no sense as the MMX300 it typically comes bundled with, is 32 ohm. That is, unless I'm missing something.

You think the Headzone uses the same amp as the Beyer A1? That would be sweet.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm assuming that's PC only, rendering it useless for me, personally.


 
   
  They claim it's coming to consoles but needless to say I'm skeptical.  
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I hope its some kind of virtual sound driver so I can use it with everything on my PC like my video player, youtube, etc...


 
   
  The audio certainly sounds processed so I wouldn't use it for that sort of thing.  
  

  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I was on the first test for like 15 minutes before skipping it. The positioning doesn't feel right no matter what I did.


 

 By first test, you mean the one where you drag the sounds to where they sound like they're coming from?  That's just a rough step, you fine tune it in a lot of other steps.  
   
  I've still no idea if it supports true binaural or not but so far I find it to be very good at directional cues BUT I've had some crackling in some games and I don't know why.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, seriously? I dunno what its capable of, though it has a 100ohm output impedance which SHOULD in head-fi terms be awful for low ohm cans,which makes no sense as the MMX300 it typically comes bundled with, is 32 ohm. That is, unless I'm missing something.
> You think the Headzone uses the same amp as the Beyer A1? That would be sweet.


 


  What, 100 ohm output impedance!?  LOL
   
  I hadn't really looked at the specs, I just remember seeing a review that said it was a respectable amp by itself.  I dunno...
   
  Looks like it has optical and coax inputs so I guess if your dac had coax out it would be fine.


----------



## Riku540

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, seriously? I dunno what its capable of, though it has a 100ohm output impedance which SHOULD in head-fi terms be awful for low ohm cans,which makes no sense as the MMX300 it typically comes bundled with, is 32 ohm. That is, unless I'm missing something.
> You think the Headzone uses the same amp as the Beyer A1? That would be sweet.


 

 It claims to support up to 600 ohms, which would make sense considering their own lineup of headphones. If that's true, that would be what makes it greatly superior to the Mixamp, though maybe not a complete justification of the price difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I mean the test where you have to tweak the left channel. The placement was nowhere near optimal position, and regardless how many times I tried to adjust it, it wouldn't...


----------



## obazavil

get the O2 and let us know how it works 
   
  I need something portable for my ed8 and lcd2 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full
> Fully built Objective O2, which is said to rival the B22... hmm... for the price, looks like this is what I want. The only thing that irks me is that it uses 3.5mm headphone jack.


----------



## rivalyoung

Got my Mixamp and HD650. I have to crank the Mixamp to almost max volume to get loud enough in BF3, but I think that's because the 650's need a little more juice than normal cans. So far it's not bad... the sound positioning does help a little.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> The audio certainly sounds processed so I wouldn't use it for that sort of thing.


 

 So it sucks then?
   
  I have good DSPs that do that kind of thing but I can't implement them system wide.  I never listen to music by via headphones without at least a basic analog crossfeed circuit.  My DAP always feeds a portable DAC/amp amp with a crossfeed circuit and I use the use it as a source at home if I'm listening to streaming music like Pandora or music videos on YouTube.  Local music is played through foobar with the TB Isone room/speaker/HRTF simulator and movies and anime use a multichannel to binaural DSP built into ffdshow which is amazingly good considering there are no options to tweak.
   
  I'll still have to try it myself but I was hoping it would be good enough to use system wide and replace everything but Isone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, I really want the Headzone, but that high output impedance is just crazy. I'd have to keep my DT990s then. Dunno how the D7000 would sound off it, though someone who sold it here months ago loved using the D7000 and LCD2 with it, which are both low ohm cans.


----------



## chicolom

Dobly Headphone needs to come out with Dobly Headphone 2.0 with customizable HRTFs.  I wonder what they're working on now.  I hope they're looking into customizable HRTFs - maybe they could include a bunch of presets or something.
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, I really want the Headzone, but that high output impedance is just crazy. I'd have to keep my DT990s then. Dunno how the D7000 would sound off it, though someone who sold it here months ago loved using the D7000 and LCD2 with it, which are both low ohm cans.


 


  Do you know how much he sold that headzone for?  Seems like you'd have to take a big loss when selling it.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Fully built Objective O2, which is said to rival the B22... hmm... for the price, looks like this is what I want. The only thing that irks me is that it uses 3.5mm headphone jack.


 

 I really like my O2.  Haven't tried any Denons with it yet.  Lord Voldermort has a pair of D2000s and can't tell it from his Benchmark DAC1's amp.
   
  Also if you don't have a good 1/4 to 1/8 adapter Senn's is way cheaper than Grado's.  This kind murders 3.5 jacks.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, I really want the Headzone, but that high output impedance is just crazy. I'd have to keep my DT990s then. Dunno how the D7000 would sound off it, though someone who sold it here months ago loved using the D7000 and LCD2 with it, which are both low ohm cans.


 

 Beyer is silly.  I never bothered to do the math and check it but I read that they did that so the 32s and 250s would end up at about the same volume.
   
  If its DSP is better than the mixamp's but it messes up the D7000's bass you could just run it into another amp like the O2 to lower the output impedance.


----------



## iHasCake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Ya, I don't think the DT990 600 bass is overwhelming.  It's tight and doesn't intrude over the other frequencies.  That was one of the things that worried me before I tried it.  The treble is an issue though for me.


 


  thanks for everyone's replies.  i've tried a friend's DT990 600ohms before and the treble was a bit much for me.  the bass was great though.
   
  as it turns out, i've sold a couple things of mine earlier today and i'm considering purchasing something from audeze   now i'm off to do more reading through the full size amp/dac forum.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, that's the adapter I use (the bad one), though I hook it up to a 3.5mm female to 3.5mm cable I got with my old Mixamp. I knew right when I got that adapter that it wouldn't be a good idea to use it directly.

So you mean using the Headzone as a pre-amp to another amp? Kinda like most of us have been doing with the Mixamp's headphone jack into another amp's line in? Not sure how the science works, but would another amp's input have a high enough impedance to take in that signal properly?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So you mean using the Headzone as a pre-amp to another amp? Kinda like most of us have been doing with the Mixamp's headphone jack into another amp's line in? Not sure how the science works, but would another amp's input have a high enough impedance to take in that signal properly?


 

 Yeah.  It will work fine.
   
  The high output impedance causes a low damping factor which can effect the quality of the bass.  Another amp doesn't have moving parts that "fight" the signal so damping factor doesn't even exist.  The source's output impedance can still be too high for other reasons but in domestic applications it would probably have to reach a few kilo-ohms before you noticed anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright, if anything, I'll attach the E9 to see what it does to it. Maybe even the E7, as it has a very low output impedance.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, I mean the test where you have to tweak the left channel. The placement was nowhere near optimal position, and regardless how many times I tried to adjust it, it wouldn't...


 

 The first half of the tests are for the left channel, but to be honest I don't think you'd have that much use for it.  Their site acts like it's going to be on consoles, but I don't see it happening.  


  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> So it sucks then?
> 
> I have good DSPs that do that kind of thing but I can't implement them system wide.  I never listen to music by via headphones without at least a basic analog crossfeed circuit.  My DAP always feeds a portable DAC/amp amp with a crossfeed circuit and I use the use it as a source at home if I'm listening to streaming music like Pandora or music videos on YouTube.  Local music is played through foobar with the TB Isone room/speaker/HRTF simulator and movies and anime use a multichannel to binaural DSP built into ffdshow which is amazingly good considering there are no options to tweak.
> 
> I'll still have to try it myself but I was hoping it would be good enough to use system wide and replace everything but Isone.


 
   
  I wouldn't listen to music with it, let's put it that way.  
   
  And it seems as though 40ms (the default) is as short as I can set the audio buffer without getting crackles.  For an effect that touts itself as being for gaming that's a pretty long buffer.  
   
  Still a rather interesting experiment, it gave me more convincing rear placement than most other HRTFs I've tried.  Well, Rapture 3D with its selection of HRTF's might be able to match it but it isn't a convenient thing to use with any games not designed for it.  I find myself wishing there was a more flexible solution, if I could put on my robe and wizard hat I'd magic Rapture 3D into my X-Fi so it works with most things, or just do something to make them play nice with each other.  It's surprising how hard it is to get a software thing like this working with other things, you'd think it could work with most any OpenAL game with no real problem. 
   
  It'd be nice if someone would record the output of the headzone so you could see how well its HRTF profile matches your head.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, seriously? I dunno what its capable of, though it has a 100ohm output impedance which SHOULD in head-fi terms be awful for low ohm cans,which makes no sense as the MMX300 it typically comes bundled with, is 32 ohm.


 
   
  It normally comes with the DT880-250, which works reasonably well with the 100Ω output impedance. The maximum power output into 250Ω is 100 mW, the same as the rated maximum power handling of the bundled DT880.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, I really want the Headzone, but that high output impedance is just crazy. I'd have to keep my DT990s then. Dunno how the D7000 would sound off it, though someone who sold it here months ago loved using the D7000 and LCD2 with it, which are both low ohm cans.


 

 Planar magnetics like the LCD-2 are much less sensitive to the output impedance than dynamic headphones.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> And it seems as though 40ms (the default) is as short as I can set the audio buffer without getting crackles.  For an effect that touts itself as being for gaming that's a pretty long buffer.


 

 Wow.  That's pretty bad...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Got my Fiio D3... a better DAC than the E7 for $30, lolwhut. The harshness on the DT990 is noticeably toned down with the D3. Awkward, as the E7 is warmer... What.

Not that it matters, as the D3 wasn't going to be used with the E9 anyways. I bought it because I need cable clutter management for my soundbar. Now all I need is one cable from the TV to the D3, and then to the soundbar, as opposed to 5 different RCA cables being swapped out on my 2 input soundbar. Thank god.

If I wasn't going to upgrade my DAC soon, I'd buy another D3 just because it IS better than the E7, though it takes optical and coaxial... the USB is just for power.

Also, finally got the PS3 chat cable (Astro forgot to ship it with the battery pack). Now I can talk crap on PS3!


----------



## deusofhearts

Hey MLE, has your opinion of competitive gaming with the D7000 changed since you recently re-acquired them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, they are still bad ass for gaming. More than any 'fun' gaming can I've tried, which works extremely well for competitive too, though the bass presence will distract you just because it's so damn good, you can't NOT pay attention to it. The reason I prefer bass light cans for competitive gaming is because the bass won't distract you.

If you want bass that isn't going to trample the rest of the frequencies, the D7000, HE-4 and DT990/600 are the only three I've used that do that so well. The D7000 is optimal because it's easy to drive, whereas the other two need some good power behind them (the DT990/600 can be run off just the Mixamp, but SQ is poor. The HE-4 absolutely requires massive power)


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

What do you think would be the cheapest way for me to try Dolby Headphone without a free pci slot? Should I wait for a deal for a Xonar DX?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If your PC has an optical out (S/PDIF), The Turtle Beach DSS 2 would work. It's an external amp...

As long as you set whatever game to output Dolby Digital/Dolby Live, and to a lesser extent Dolby Pro Logic II, the DSS will convert it to Dolby Headphone.

Frankly, I prefer an external solution, because you could use it for consoles and even TV.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If your PC has an optical out (S/PDIF), The Turtle Beach DSS 2 would work. It's an external amp...
> As long as you set whatever game to output Dolby Digital/Dolby Live, and to a lesser extent Dolby Pro Logic II, the DSS will convert it to Dolby Headphone.
> Frankly, I prefer an external solution, because you could use it for consoles and even TV.


 

 Oh, if only it were that easy. PC games generally keep all their surround channels in uncompressed PCM. S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for two PCM channels. In other words, you only get stereo through S/PDIF unless the game just happens to support on-the-fly Dolby Digital encoding (and the vast majority don't), or (far more likely) the S/PDIF output device supports Dolby Digital Live (and most integrated motherboard codecs don't).
   
  But if he wants to get an idea of what Dolby Headphone is like on the cheap, the Xonar U3 is only $40 and is basically a small USB stick.
   
  I would prefer dedicated solutions for PC and consoles, though, hence why my desktops have X-Fi cards and my consoles have the SU-DH1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For real? My bad for assuming it would work the same way typical non-PC optical outs do. :blink:


I packed up my DT990 to ship back to Amazon tomorrow, and I'm having second thoughts. GAH. If I were to get the Headzone, I would assume it'd work better because it's 6x the impedance of the Headzone's 100ohm output impedance...

There really isn't any other open can I'd rather have right now than the DT990... other than the T1, and there's no way in hell I can afford it.


----------



## theguythatthe

I am using the HD558 with the Tritton AX720 mixamp.  I really enjoy the clarity and separation of the HD558, especially in FPS games.  However, for non-competitive (single-player) games, I wish I could have a little bit more bass punch.
   
  Would I be better off with the Turtle Beach Earforce DSS due to the bass boost feature?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not sure how well the bass boost is implemented, but if it's anyuthing like the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost, no, it's not worth it as it will distort a bit too much. I suggest getting a pair of headphones for non-competitive use. 

Agh, I don't wanna hit 4000 posts already!


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh, if only it were that easy. PC games generally keep all their surround channels in uncompressed PCM. S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for two PCM channels. In other words, you only get stereo through S/PDIF unless the game just happens to support on-the-fly Dolby Digital encoding (and the vast majority don't), or (far more likely) the S/PDIF output device supports Dolby Digital Live (and most integrated motherboard codecs don't).
> 
> But if he wants to get an idea of what Dolby Headphone is like on the cheap, the Xonar U3 is only $40 and is basically a small USB stick.
> 
> I would prefer dedicated solutions for PC and consoles, though, hence why my desktops have X-Fi cards and my consoles have the SU-DH1.


 

 I'm actually trying to figure out if motherboards have this feature or not.  it seems to depend on the chip, and if you have the realtek drivers versus the generic drivers


----------



## theguythatthe

I figured it would probably be pretty gimmicky.  Thanks for the advice!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





phos said:


> I'm actually trying to figure out if motherboards have this feature or not.  it seems to depend on the chip, and if you have the realtek drivers versus the generic drivers


 

 Yeah, it definitely seems to vary by motherboard and driver package. Some Realtek-based motherboards have it, others don't. Modified drivers may be able to circumvent that.
   
  Dolby Digital Live isn't really a new feature, either-just look at all those NVIDIA nForce2-based boards with SoundStorm, which has Dolby Digital Live support as a rule (even if it wasn't exactly called that back then). Word is that NVIDIA had originally developed that sort of feature with the Xbox in mind and carried it over to the PC side in the following years, until nForce3 and later did away with SoundStorm entirely. (It also might explain why original Xbox games almost always support Dolby Digital while relatively fewer PS2 games did, instead opting for Pro Logic II in spite of that Toslink S/PDIF jack in the back.)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm not sure how well the bass boost is implemented, but if it's anyuthing like the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost, no, it's not worth it as it will distort a bit too much.


 


  The DSS bass boost is actually nicer.  The DSS bass boost is cleaner and tighter, boosting just bass - the mixamp boosts a bit too much midbass which can muddy the sound slightly.  The DSS also boosts stronger (if you crank up the dial ) and gives more slam.
   
  I also found the mixamp bass boost to clip more often than the DSS's.
   
  EDIT: Speaking of sound differences between the two, the mixamp has more mids than the DSS, which I kind of like.


----------



## chicolom

Well, my DT990 600s are gone.  I Shipped them of today.  They were a bit too "fun" for me, and I prefer the Q701s.
   
  I have a pair of K702 coming, and I will get to the bottom of the "K702 and Q701 are identical/different" debates.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Take away your DT990 listing from your sig then. 

I'm still on the fence on whether to return mine or not... 

edit: though listening to Lacuna Coil's new album, the D7000 overplays the bass a bit too much for my liking formetal, not to mention that just after an hour, my ears are sore from the heat, and my skin is irritated from the pleather. Looks like I'm probably keeping my DT990s because they will be getting used when I get pleather/bass fatigue. The faster bass will be welcome especially for metal.

Looks like I'm really becoming quite sensitive to bass...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Take away your DT990 listing from your sig then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Touché
   
  Aren't you using the D7000 for music _and  _gaming?  Do you have pics of your PC360 headband?


----------



## jghost23

I have a question about sound on MW3.. FOR some reason, and this has happened with my Sony PS3 headset as well, randomly.. not frequent but enough to extremely annoy me. A SUPER LOUD irritating sound is emitting from whatever is putting out sound (my headset, tv, etc). It's very difficult to describe how it sounds, but it isn't normal.. and I'm worried it will destroy whatever is putting out sound. Anyone experience this?
   
  EDIT: It's almost like a metallic echoing sound.. if that makes sense. I have no idea what it is happening.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Touché
> 
> Aren't you using the D7000 for music _and  _gaming?  Do you have pics of your PC360 headband?




Yeah. But the DT990 would be the best substitute for the D7000 when I get tired of having them on my head (which is likely, whereas I can wear the DT990s for hours upon hours).

I'll post some pics up tomorrow. Gotta get ready for work.

Though my DX mic's 3.5mm plug snapped off today, lol. I was testing the PS3 chat cable, and when I went to connect the DX mic to the Y cable, it just snapped off... :eek:

I'm not sure it's worthwhile getting the antlion mod mic, when I have a perfectly good headset in the PC360. I'd only get maybe like $70 profit in the end if I got the mod mic. The D7000 is certainly not a headphone I'd use for when I'm using voice chat anyways. IF I returned the DT990s for maybe the Q701, then maybe the PC360s would be worth selling. I really like not having two cables dangling though, which is why the PC360 is still favorable.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> But the DT990 would be the best substitute for the D7000 when I get tired of having them on my head (which is likely, whereas I can wear the DT990s for hours upon hours).


 


  I pretty much require open ear + velour  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Makes choosing headphones a lot easier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I think I'm gonna switch priorities again...

Returning the DT990s for refund + getting my refund for the Audio-GD stuff + Income tax money = Almost paying off my Amazon balance (just a few hundred shy of paying it off).

For now, I'm gonna settle with the D7000 + maybe getting an E17, and that's it. 

The Headzone can wait until much later, and open + velour = gonna have to wait.

Gotta be smart. I realize I can settle with the D7000 plus not that much power and enjoy the sound instead of the equipment for a good while.


----------



## iHasCake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Well, my DT990 600s are gone.  I Shipped them of today.  They were a bit too "fun" for me, and I prefer the Q701s.
> 
> I have a pair of K702 coming, and I will get to the bottom of the "K702 and Q701 are identical/different" debates.


 


 waiting for this before i order anything else


----------



## Phos

Yeah I suppose it's probably best you don't go too wild for now.  
   
  I did have an idea about the pleather deal.  You can buy Beyer leather pads separately, and I'm pretty sure they'll fit the Denons.  I've heard they'll both fit the HiFiMan orthos, so they should fit each other.  For now you could try the pads from your DT990 on the Denon's rings and see how that goes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well Lawton Audio is going to be selling real leather pads for the Denons soon. I'll go for those.

The DT990 pads are very open and would kill off the bass in the Denons. I distinctly remember swapping out the DT770 velours for the DT990 velours and vice versa. The outcome wasn't pretty. The DT770 lost all their bass and became 99% treble. The DT990 became nothing but a wall of farts. It was scary. 

Pretty sure pad rolling would change the D7000 too much, other than well tested pads.


----------



## chicolom

D7000 has pleather pads?!
   
  I thought a flagshop headphone like that would have leather....


----------



## TMRaven

What's wrong with pleather?  Good pleather is more resilient than leather.  A good trait to have when always in contact with skin oils and sweat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup, but don't get it twisted, they are VERY high quality. I wouldn't know they were pleather by touching/looking at them. They are very soft and comfy. They just get damn hot, and sticky though.


----------



## jghost23

Not sure if you guys saw my post.
  
  Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> I have a question about sound on MW3.. FOR some reason, and this has happened with my Sony PS3 headset as well, randomly.. not frequent but enough to extremely annoy me. A SUPER LOUD irritating sound is emitting from whatever is putting out sound (my headset, tv, etc). It's very difficult to describe how it sounds, but it isn't normal.. and I'm worried it will destroy whatever is putting out sound. Anyone experience this?
> 
> EDIT: It's almost like a metallic echoing sound.. if that makes sense. I have no idea what it is happening.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> Not sure if you guys saw my post.


 


  Your saying it only happens on MW3?  If so, that's very odd... I don't play MW3.  If have the sony PS3 wireless headset, you can rule out connection issues because you can't trouble shoot the wireless connection really.


----------



## chicolom

The DSS 2 surround sound angles thing looks interesting...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3 looks like normal DH, while 6 may help discern rear sounds better. 1, 2, and 4 look like a TERRIBLE idea.

I'd be down to try the DSS2, but honestly, I'm trying to lower my debt.


----------



## chicolom

I wonder if it's a DSP on top of a DSP, like turtle beaches own DSP on top of DH.  Or if it's actually changing the dolby headphone DSP itself..


----------



## Phos

If they're able to just move the speakers around like that I can't help but wonder if the Dolby Headphone algorithm is technologically capable of true binaural.  I also don't get why they don't just have a setting that puts all the speakers at 72 degrees to one another, at that would place them on the corners of an equilateral pentagon.  What this would be useful for would be to match the game's field of view with the sounds.  Doesn't Dolby have recommended placement for speakers or is that actually just different HRTF profiles?  
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well Lawton Audio is going to be selling real leather pads for the Denons soon. I'll go for those.
> The DT990 pads are very open and would kill off the bass in the Denons. I distinctly remember swapping out the DT770 velours for the DT990 velours and vice versa. The outcome wasn't pretty. The DT770 lost all their bass and became 99% treble. The DT990 became nothing but a wall of farts. It was scary.
> Pretty sure pad rolling would change the D7000 too much, other than well tested pads.


 


  My reasoning for trying the beyer velour pads was that if they fit you could get leather pads from beyer for a lot less than the Lawton pads.  You mentioned in the J$ thread that you didn't want to change their sound (unless you changed your mind?) and I _think _the beyer leather pads are closer in thickness to the denon pads.  Basically just another option to consider.


----------



## jghost23

I have the PC 360s with mixamp 5.8. I was only mentioning that it happened on my ps3 headset and the PC 360s. I have no idea where the sound comes from. Is it uncommon?
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Your saying it only happens on MW3?  If so, that's very odd... I don't play MW3.  If have the sony PS3 wireless headset, you can rule out connection issues because you can't trouble shoot the wireless connection really.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jghost23 said:


> I have the PC 360s with mixamp 5.8. I was only mentioning that it happened on my ps3 headset and the PC 360s. I have no idea where the sound comes from. Is it uncommon?


 

  
  Unless it's some weird DSP artifact (not the case if it happens in stereo too), I don't know what it could be...You could look at the audio settings in the game...


----------



## chicolom

Has anyone here played Crysis 2?  It's got pretty cool audio.  When you activate the suit the voice that comes from it is supposed to sound like it's coming from a helmet your wearing - kind of sounds like it's coming from behind you.  Also whenever you turn the suit functions on and off you get pretty deep bass rumble that sounds cool.
   
  I assume Crysis 1 is the same, I need to download that and play it next time I get money.


----------



## Phos

I just keep finding these things
   
  I'm not even looking for them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interesting. How much is it in US currency?

As for what I'm going to do... looks like I'm definitely going with the Objective O2 amp, and probably the Fiio E17 as my DAC. Gonna save me a LOT of money in the long run.

I'm really liking the stuff NwAv has said... sounds like a guy to trust.


----------



## Phos

He's coming out with a desktop amp design with a 1/4 inch plug soonish, like in February, and it can also can integrate a DAC.  
   
  And more playing Dirt 2 using Rapture3D has convinced me that rapture 3D is really good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it's coming out that soon? Hmm, perhaps I'll wait. My thing is, I want it pre-made. I'm not into DIY. I could get a pre-made O2 from JDS Labs, but in all honesty, the desktop version is worth waiting for. Desktop DAC/AMP... oh yeah.

My effing E7's proprietary jack (where it docks to the E9 and connects the L7) is messed up. The L7 is 100% unusable with my E7 as it hisses/hums like crazy unless I hold it in a weird way. When docked to the E9, a slight nudge of my desk causes it to go haywire and lose a channel and other issues. I need an upgrade, asap. 

Using the D3 now, but while it does sound better to me than the E7, it also has fuller bass, which isn't exactly ideal for the D7000. Perhaps I'll just use the E7 through USB with the D7000 for now.


----------



## Mavekovis

Hey MLE, is the bass on D7000 too much for music like this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJ_SLojrsI
   
  thankss
   
  I can't make a guess about that because my current system doesnt have bass at all.
   
   
  I'm thinking of buying d7k and titaniumHD soundcard off amazon but im not really sure if they'll even ship to europe...somewhere on the site I read they will ship electronics with priority shipping that costs 30€ and somewhere they said they won't ship electronics outside US.


----------



## Hailin

MMMM Volbeat so tasty. I wonder if the D7000 are just plain fast enough to handle Anders bass lines. I would hope for that price it would though.
  
  Quote: 





mavekovis said:


> Hey MLE, is the bass on D7000 too much for music like this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJ_SLojrsI
> 
> thankss
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll take a look later. The D7000's bass is awesome. Never overwhelming, just that the D3 adds more bass which doesn't play to the D7000's strengths.


----------



## LilBuck

I was wondering if I buy a soundcard with DH and run that through an amp/dac will the output still be able to be surround sound? I was planning on just going the xonar dg with Beyerdynamic DT 880/AKG Q701 (lets just assume a Fiio e9 + d3 for the sake of argument).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





lilbuck said:


> I was wondering if I buy a soundcard with DH and *run that through an amp/dac* will the output still be able to be surround sound? I was planning on just going the xonar dg with Beyerdynamic DT 880/AKG Q701 (lets just assume a Fiio e9 + d3 for the sake of argument).


 


 Once the soundcard converts it to dolby headphone, you have keep the signal analog. * Dobly headphone is strictly an analog signal and is tied to the analog stage of whatever device (mixamp, soundcard, reciever, etc)  . You can't chain DACs together.*  You can amp your soundcard, although you may not need to.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Once the soundcard converts it to dolby headphone, you have keep the signal analog. * Dobly headphone is strictly an analog signal and is tied to the analog stage of whatever device (mixamp, soundcard, reciever, etc)  . You can't chain DACs together.*  You can amp your soundcard, although you may not need to.


 

 That just isn't true.  Do they not make cards that actually let you do that?  If so they're just screwing you over because there's no technical limitation that prevents it.
   
  After its processed by the dolby headphone DSP its not any different from any other 2 channel signal.  The D in DSP is digital.  Its not some complicated analog circuit.  The 6 or 8 channels of surround sound are converted in a 2 channel signal digitally and then fed to a DAC chip whether its in your soundcard, receiver, or mixamp.   Besides there not being an option in the drivers to actually do it there is no reason it couldn't be output as 2 channel PCM over S/PDIF to the DAC or your choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lilbuck said:


> I was wondering if I buy a soundcard with DH and run that through an amp/dac will the output still be able to be surround sound? I was planning on just going the xonar dg with Beyerdynamic DT 880/AKG Q701 (lets just assume a Fiio e9 + d3 for the sake of argument).




Once Dolby Headphone has been added to the audio chain, it will remain there. After it has been added, any extra parts to the audio chain may alter the sound a little, for better or worse, but it will still be DH.

As a crazy test, I did DH through the Mixamp, then to the E7, then to the E9. Dolby Headphone was still there, albeit in triple amped goodness.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> That just isn't true.  Do they not make cards that actually let you do that?  If so they're just screwing you over because there's no technical limitation that prevents it.
> 
> After its processed by the dolby headphone DSP its not any different from any other 2 channel signal.  The D in DSP is digital.  Its not some complicated analog circuit.  The 6 or 8 channels of surround sound are converted in a 2 channel signal digitally and then fed to a DAC chip whether its in your soundcard, receiver, or mixamp.   Besides there not being an option in the drivers to actually do it there is no reason it couldn't be output as 2 channel PCM over S/PDIF to the DAC or your choice.


 


  Technically a card could convert the stereo 5.1 Dolby Digital into dolby headphone (stereo) and then bypass the analog out and keep the stereo signal digital, thus letting another dac turn the digital stereo dolby headphone signal into analog.  I don't know of any that do that though. 
   
  I thought it was a licensing thing where the card is paying dolby for the tech and in return dolby want the device to tie the DSP to the analog out to prevent people getting the DH signal digitally and outputting  other devices.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see how DH can turn back to basic stereo. For all intents and purposes, a converted Dolby Headphone audio signal will just read as stereo for every device after it. Or am I missing something here?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't see how DH can turn back to basic stereo. For all intents and purposes, a converted Dolby Headphone audio signal will just read as stereo for every device after it. Or am I missing something here?


 

  
  I was just saying that theoretically you could go 5.1 Dolby Digital  > stereo Dolby Headphone (still digital signal)> output DH processed digital stereo signal to another DAC to convert to analog stereo.
   
  I don't think you could remove the DH processing from a signal though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OIC. 

Damn it guys, I think I'm just gonna say the hell with it and get a Burson HA 160 DS for my D7000. I didn't want a huge footprint, which is why i didn't get the Audio-GD setup. I'm due a refund soon, and I think I'm gonna go with the Burson for the all in one solution.

I was about to splurge on the DAC Mini, but I hear the Burson has better PRAT and quicker bass. Things that the D7000 could benefit from.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Technically a card could convert the stereo 5.1 Dolby Digital into dolby headphone (stereo) and then bypass the analog out and keep the stereo signal digital, thus letting another dac turn the digital stereo dolby headphone signal into analog.  I don't know of any that do that though.
> 
> I thought it was a licensing thing where the card is paying dolby for the tech and in return dolby want the device to tie the DSP to the analog out to prevent people getting the DH signal digitally and outputting  other devices.


 
   
  Wow.  ******* of the highest order.  Time to look in to driver hacking...
    
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I don't see how DH can turn back to basic stereo. For all intents and purposes, a converted Dolby Headphone audio signal will just read as stereo for every device after it. Or am I missing something here?


 

 It doesn't.  The difference between stereo and Dolby Headphone or any binaural DSP or recording is just how the signal is mixed.  All of them are just two channels of sound.  For DH 6 or 8 channels go in and 2 come out.  Nothing in the chain except your ears and brain can or needs to tell the difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

whoops


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OIC.
> Damn it guys, I think I'm just gonna say the hell with it and get a Burson HA 160 DS for my D7000. I didn't want a huge footprint, which is why i didn't get the Audio-GD setup. I'm due a refund soon, and I think I'm gonna go with the Burson for the all in one solution.
> I was about to splurge on the DAC Mini, but I hear the Burson has better PRAT and quicker bass. Things that the D7000 could benefit from.


 

 You're sure changing your mind a lot.  I'd wait for the ODA and ODAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> You're sure changing your mind a lot.  I'd wait for the ODA and ODAC.




Me and waiting.... ARGH, not sure I can hold out. And then I'd only buy those pre-made.

But yeah, I'll wait and see.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I was just saying that theoretically you could go 5.1 Dolby Digital  > stereo Dolby Headphone (still digital signal)> output DH processed digital stereo signal to another DAC to convert to analog stereo.
> 
> I don't think you could remove the DH processing from a signal though...


 

 This sounds like what the Smyth Realiser can do (yes, it has an S/PDIF output precisely for use with DACs), and what X-Fi cards for PCs can do (although it's CMSS-3D Headphone instead of Dolby Headphone, it still achieves the same end)!
   
  Word is that Xonar cards won't allow DH-processed S/PDIF due to driver shortsightedness, though. I don't know if this extends to other C-Media cards, like those from HT Omega and Auzentech.
   
  Oh, by the way, MLE-you've inspired me to write a guide of my own, more tailored toward figuring out the nuances of PC gaming audio. It points here for headphone gaming advice due to my general lack of headphone experience. I hope you don't mind that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No way, I'm sure that would help the Headf-fi crowd more, as I'm pretty sure that most gamers here are actually PC gamers instead of console gamers. This thread and pms has proven that to me, as I feel I get asked more PC related questions than console related ones.

I look forward to your thread. 

Though honestly, I think you'd get a LOT more hits doing it in this section, as I'm certain most non-regulars see the full-sized section as the main Head-fi section. I know it makes more sense there, but people look for both headphone and audio device advice in this section. =/

*edit: I've also added a link to your page on my first post in nice bolded words. *


----------



## NamelessPFG

I appreciate the extra coverage, and also thought to revise my guide a little to make my link to your article more prominent via bold text.
   
  After all, our goal is largely the same-help people enjoy gaming audio more, gaining both immersion from the sense of surround sound and a competitive edge! Doesn't matter what platform it's on, since most of the same principles apply to both.
   
  I thought about putting it in this subforum as well, but thought that as a guide to better understanding just how PC gaming audio works more than anything, it belongs in Computer Audio. Otherwise, people might also think it's yet another gaming headphone guide that overlaps with this one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes sense. I'll definitely be recommending the thread to anyone who asks about PC related stuff. You have my thanks.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Me and waiting.... ARGH, not sure I can hold out. And then I'd only buy those pre-made.
> But yeah, I'll wait and see.


 

 Well JDS Labs will probably have version of it.  You've held on to the E9 for a long time.  I don't know how much of that is just price, but if its because you like a pretty clean and transparent amp then you'll probably like the O2/ODA.
   
  I haven't heard the E9 but it measure pretty well and would be fairly universal if it wasn't for the 10 ohms output impedance.  The O2 is even cleaner and it puts out about the same power as the E9 into loads above about 50 ohms or so.
   
  I've heard bad things about the Burson's measurements.  I haven't seen any specific numbers but they use those odd discrete op amps like Audio GD and the ones that have been measured got some pretty bad results and their website is full of some questionable engineering claims.  Centrance generally makes much better design choices.  The Burson is superior in one area which would explain the bass reports.  The DACmini has a 10 ohm output impedance and the Burson has 5.6.  For an extra hundred dollars Centrance will reduce it to 1 ohm.
   
  The DACmini is good pretty much everywhere else though.  Stereophile recently measured it.  Its USB interface is really good, outperforming the optical input by a large margin.  Most of that's probably below what you can actually hear anyway but it should make the DACmini tolerant of even the crappiest USB ports without audible side effects.  Since they're both designed to be transparent  I doubt you'd be able to hear much difference between a DACmini modded to 1 ohm output impedance and the ODA/ODAC combo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How about the power on the DACMini? I want a fairly universal amp, but wonder how it handles headphones ranging from the D7000 to 600ohm Beyers.

I would definitely spend the extra $100 for the 1ohm output impedance. I just want a great all in one. I don't wanna buy any other equipment after this. (Headzone aside). the D7000 is gonna be my main, and I plan on keeping it that way. I would consider the T1, but that's a dream best kept for later.


----------



## maverickronin

After converting the voltages on their website
   
  690mW @ 32 ohm
   
  240mW @ 300 ohm
   
  132mW @ 600 ohm
   
  That's more than the E9 into 300 and 600 ohm loads and more than the O2 all around.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OOH, OOH. 

I like those numbers. The DacMini just might be what I put my money on.

We'll see what happens. They sell it on Amazon which ideal for me, but they don't have the mods... oh well.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Though honestly, I think you'd get a LOT more hits doing it in this section, as I'm certain most non-regulars see the full-sized section as the main Head-fi section. I know it makes more sense there, but people look for both headphone and audio device advice in this section. =/


 
   
  I think the forum section probably won't matter as much, because I assume most people end up in this thread because they either searched and found it or were linked here from another page. 
   
*NamelessPFG *you might want to add some more keyword in the thread title for google like "headphone", "surround sound", etc...


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OOH, OOH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I double checked and the E9 is stronger into 32 ohm loads but weaker into the 300 and 600.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but the E9 isn't ideal for low ohm headphones like that anyway, right? I mean, the D7000 soes sound great off the E9, but I wouldn't mind better technical synergy. The bass is a bit loose off the E9.

One thing I distinctly remember is that the Lyr REALLY tightened up the D7000's bass by a considerable margin over the E9, though the noise/hum was very detrimental to sound quality overall. On the bass side, it was so good, I didn't see a need for some J$ pads or whatever. The bass was just perfect.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, but the E9 isn't ideal for low ohm headphones like that anyway, right? I mean, the D7000 soes sound great off the E9, but I wouldn't mind better technical synergy. The bass is a bit loose off the E9.
> One thing I distinctly remember is that the Lyr REALLY tightened up the D7000's bass by a considerable margin over the E9, though the noise/hum was very detrimental to sound quality overall. On the bass side, it was so good, I didn't see a need for some J$ pads or whatever. The bass was just perfect.


 

 Well the D7000's are really sensitive so the DAC mini should be fine. no matter how loud you want to listen.  THe lower output impedance hooked to a strong amp should tighten up the bass on the them though so a 1 ohm modded DACmini might do it.
   
  Orthos aren't bothered nearly as much by higher output impedances  so the E9 could be a bit better with some of the HiFiMans than the DACmini.


----------



## Phos

Orthos don't change their FR much but I doubt they fair that much better with ringing. They still overshoot.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> Orthos don't change their FR much but I doubt they fair that much better with ringing. They still overshoot.


 

 Maybe I should do some more A/Bing but my K601 (120 ohm) seem to change a lot more in that department than my T50RPs (55 ohm IIRC) with my Bottlehead Crack OTL with a Z out of ~120 ohms or so.  The 601s don't have one of those huge ~100Hz resonances like the Senns and Beyers do either. so the FR isn't changed much so I don't think that's all the difference I'm hearing..


----------



## Phos

I'm honestly in over my head with this one.


----------



## theguythatthe

I know this is a lot to ask as my criteria are restrictive, but I would appreciate any help nonetheless.
   
  I just returned the Sennheiser HD558.  I'm coming from the Tritton AX720 and will be using the 720 decoder box for all future headphones.  I am using these for gaming (non-competitive and competitive).
   
  I enjoyed the clarity and separation that the 558 provided but disliked the lack of bass punch and what I perceived as an emphasis on mids.  I enjoy the Tritton's bass punch but I wish it were less boomy.  I disliked the Tritton's lack of clarity and relatively small soundstage.
   
  I don't need to be able to hear pin drops in Call of Duty, but would certainly like good positional accuracy, depth, and clarity.  At the same time I want to be able to experience single player games with the same clarity but have a good dose of the "fun" factor as well for immersion. 
   
  I realize that buying two headphones would be an obvious solution, but I would really prefer not to do that.  What is the best pair of headphones I could get from bestbuy.com that would satisfy the above criteria?  My budget is under $200.  Thanks for any suggestions.


----------



## Eric_C

chicolom: sorry if you already answered this, but how's that Antlion Mod Mic working out for you? I'm considering one.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





phos said:


> Orthos don't change their FR much but I doubt they fair that much better with ringing. They still overshoot.


 
   
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Maybe I should do some more A/Bing but my K601 (120 ohm) seem to change a lot more in that department than my T50RPs (55 ohm IIRC) with my Bottlehead Crack OTL with a Z out of ~120 ohms or so.  The 601s don't have one of those huge ~100Hz resonances like the Senns and Beyers do either. so the FR isn't changed much so I don't think that's all the difference I'm hearing..


 
   
  Ringing is also a result of changes in the frequency/phase response. The impedance of the K601 increases significantly in the treble range, so it is not surprising if it "sharpens" somewhat with a high impedance source.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> I'm honestly in over my head with this one.


 

 I know that planars do make some back EMF which you can demonstrated by trying to use them like a microphone but the fact that they all need significant mechanical/acoustic damping will make the electrical damping less important.  I don't know how much less important though and it probably varies between different models/drivers.
   
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Ringing is also a result of changes in the frequency/phase response. The impedance of the K601 increases significantly in the treble range, so it is not surprising if it "sharpens" somewhat with a high impedance source.


 

 I forgot about that end of it.  I was mostly paying attention to the bass when I was listening for differences.


----------



## Hailin

Sub 200 for what you want at Bestbuy there is absolutely nothing due to Bestbuy's 200% mark-up. I would say and I don't know if this is possible. Can you buy amazon gift cards at best buy?
  Then you could look at something from Beyerdynamic, Superlux 668B, or Creative Aurvana Live! Those are about the only headphones that are more open sounding that would give you the sensation of impact.(That I personally know of.)
  I was in the same position as you with my HD598 horrid bass impact. (Single player gamer) I have since just allowed my ears to get used to them. Now I have to wait for the E17 to come back into stock so I can hopefully get rid on the low level distortion with the Senn's when using 8tracks. Plus I went and bought some FX-66 and Monoprice 8323 for when I want just a little more oomph and isolation while my seamstress friend works on putting together a pair of velours for my Superlux.
  
  Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I know this is a lot to ask as my criteria are restrictive, but I would appreciate any help nonetheless.
> 
> I just returned the Sennheiser HD558.  I'm coming from the Tritton AX720 and will be using the 720 decoder box for all future headphones.  I am using these for gaming (non-competitive and competitive).
> 
> ...


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Sub 200 for what you want at Bestbuy there is absolutely nothing due to Bestbuy's 200% mark-up. I would say and I don't know if this is possible. Can you buy amazon gift cards at best buy?
> Then you could look at something from Beyerdynamic, Superlux 668B, or Creative Aurvana Live! Those are about the only headphones that are more open sounding that would give you the sensation of impact.(That I personally know of.)
> I was in the same position as you with my HD598 horrid bass impact. (Single player gamer) I have since just allowed my ears to get used to them. Now I have to wait for the E17 to come back into stock so I can hopefully get rid on the low level distortion with the Senn's when using 8tracks. Plus I went and bought some FX-66 and Monoprice 8323 for when I want just a little more oomph and isolation while my seamstress friend works on putting together a pair of velours for my Superlux.


 
  Thanks for the suggestions.  It's funny you mentioned the CAL! as I keep coming back to that pair in my research.  I might just bite the bullet and get a pair from Amazon.
   
  Would the CAL! be an overall improvement over the AX720?


----------



## Telltale

theguythatthe said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If you do get the CALs then let us know what they're like. 

I'm very interested in getting then for my next pair of 'phones do any more opinions on how they perform, particularly in regards to gaming and dh, would be great.


----------



## Hailin

Another cheap offering is the Panasonic HTF 600. They seem really hit or miss with people. I really dislike them I found them dark and veiled until you switch to velor pads then they opened up a lot. I still don't enjoy them over my other headphones though. There is a massive thread about them on here and they are only 30 bucks or so. At 30 bucks you could give them a try and not feel ripped off.
   
  I have really wanted to try the CALs but I can't get them in my country. The driver in them is a fostex driver based off the Denon 1001 I believe. Which is suppose to be an amazing headphone but again almost impossible to find in Canada.
   
  If I stumble across any other ideas I will let you know.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I know this is a lot to ask as my criteria are restrictive, but I would appreciate any help nonetheless.
> I just returned the Sennheiser HD558.  I'm coming from the Tritton AX720 and will be using the 720 decoder box for all future headphones.  I am using these for gaming (non-competitive and competitive).
> I enjoyed the clarity and separation that the 558 provided but disliked the lack of bass punch and what I perceived as an emphasis on mids.  I enjoy the Tritton's bass punch but I wish it were less boomy.  I disliked the Tritton's lack of clarity and relatively small soundstage.
> I don't need to be able to hear pin drops in Call of Duty, but would certainly like good positional accuracy, depth, and clarity.  At the same time I want to be able to experience single player games with the same clarity but have a good dose of the "fun" factor as well for immersion.
> I realize that buying two headphones would be an obvious solution, but I would really prefer not to do that.  What is the best pair of headphones I could get from bestbuy.com that would satisfy the above criteria?  My budget is under $200.  Thanks for any suggestions.


 
  I found the HD-558s have plenty of bass for me.
  If you had removed the black rubber tape from inside the cups and gave them 50 hours of break in, you might have liked the bass better.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

The soundstage on the HTF 600 seemed pretty small to me. I wasn't too impressed with them for gaming. 
  
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> Another cheap offering is the Panasonic HTF 600. They seem really hit or miss with people. I really dislike them I found them dark and veiled until you switch to velor pads then they opened up a lot. I still don't enjoy them over my other headphones though. There is a massive thread about them on here and they are only 30 bucks or so. At 30 bucks you could give them a try and not feel ripped off.
> 
> I have really wanted to try the CALs but I can't get them in my country. The driver in them is a fostex driver based off the Denon 1001 I believe. Which is suppose to be an amazing headphone but again almost impossible to find in Canada.
> 
> If I stumble across any other ideas I will let you know.


----------



## chicolom

Double post?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





			
				Eric_C said:
			
		

> chicolom: sorry if you already answered this, but how's that Antlion Mod Mic working out for you? I'm considering one.


 

  
  It works good.  It is SUPER sensitive.  You just bend it around and the placement isn't that crucial because of the high sensitivity.  Just a couple inches away from your mouth is fine. 
   
  I love that I can just unsnap the magnet when I'm done and I get my headphones back again, without any "mods" hanging off it.  That's what sold me on it.
   
  Quote: 





			
				Telltale said:
			
		

> If you do get the CALs then let us know what they're like.
> I'm very interested in getting then for my next pair of 'phones do any more opinions on how they perform, particularly in regards to gaming and dh, would be great.


 

 I have some CALs here.  I can test them again with gaming if you want...


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It works good.  It is SUPER sensitive.  You just bend it around and the placement isn't that crucial because of the high sensitivity.  Just a couple inches away from your mouth is fine.
> 
> I love that I can just unsnap the magnet when I'm done and I get my headphones back again, without any "mods" hanging off it.  That's what sold me on it.
> 
> ...


 

 Yes, that would be great if you could test them!


----------



## Drastion

Been reading this thread since last year. Read the one on avs also but this one was much more interesting.

I am about set on what I am looking for. One bass can and one balkanced. Makes me sad that the 880 have the hole at 6 oclock they sound perfect for me.

Ballanced

Akg q701
Dt 880

Bass

Dt 990
Ultrasone 750 - not sure here the have a lot of models

Thinking of getting the ballanced first then deciding if I need more base. Thinking about just buying a few and keeping the one I like but not sure if amazons return policy on that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Yes, that would be great if you could test them!


 

  
  They're just _OK_.  I wouldn't get them specifically for gaming.  They're a little to bass heavy and warm for my tastes.  The positioning is alright.  I'm used to open headphones, so the soundstage seems small but for closed they're decent.  Better than the JVC RX900 I used to have.  They're excellent for music though for the price. 
   
  I would say aim for an open pair, unless you need closed specifically.  As far as closed headphones in the price range, the CALs are one of the better choices.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *chicolom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> It works good.  It is SUPER sensitive.  You just bend it around and the placement isn't that crucial because of the high sensitivity.  Just a couple inches away from your mouth is fine.
> 
> I love that I can just unsnap the magnet when I'm done and I get my headphones back again, without any "mods" hanging off it.  That's what sold me on it.


 

 Sweet. I just ordered one, it should get to me by mid-Feb. I kind of need a new mic to game on Xbox now--I just bought a Razer Onza, and it doesn't accommodate the old, official Xbox headset puck, plus the newer headsets that MS was packaging with consoles isn't available in my country. Oh well.


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> They're just _OK_.  I wouldn't get them specifically for gaming.  They're a little to bass heavy and warm for my tastes.  The positioning is alright.  I'm used to open headphones, so the soundstage seems small but for closed they're decent.  Better than the JVC RX900 I used to have.  They're excellent for music though for the price.
> 
> I would say aim for an open pair, unless you need closed specifically.  As far as closed headphones in the price range, the CALs are one of the better choices.


 

 Thanks for testing.  Did you find them to be veiled at all?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Thanks for testing.  Did you find them to be veiled at all?


 


  They're not veiled or muddy, just a little on the warm side.  The lower frequencies are stronger than the rest.  I prefer a thinner sounding headphone for gaming.


----------



## Hailin

+1 on the Modmic I love mine.
   
  Best of luck on the Onza mine lasted 3 months and the right stick lost calibration and it was always moving on it's own accord. My brothers also lost his calibration but was able to get it back after several resets. I could never get mine to work again. Both were tournament editions so that might make a difference. I really loved it while it worked. There was a huge thread on the MLG forums full of complaints.
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Sweet. I just ordered one, it should get to me by mid-Feb. I kind of need a new mic to game on Xbox now--I just bought a Razer Onza, and it doesn't accommodate the old, official Xbox headset puck, plus the newer headsets that MS was packaging with consoles isn't available in my country. Oh well.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Best of luck on the Onza mine lasted 3 months and the right stick lost calibration and it was always moving on it's own accord. My brothers also lost his calibration but was able to get it back after several resets. I could never get mine to work again. Both were tournament editions so that might make a difference. I really loved it while it worked. There was a huge thread on the MLG forums full of complaints.


 

  =\


----------



## chicolom

I forgot about this thing  http://www.madcatz.com/mlg/360_controller.htm
   
  Too bad its $100


----------



## Hailin

You mean I could have a ps3 style dpad for my 360 that is a tad tempting. lol
   
  If the quality is as good as their fight sticks it would be almost worth that price.
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I forgot about this thing  http://www.madcatz.com/mlg/360_controller.htm
> 
> Too bad its $100


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually ordered the PS3 version of that controlle today, but cancelled it. I hate the dualshock controller for shooters. The 360 controller is MUCH better for me. The MLG Pro controller was a godsend for me, as it has a 360 style ergonomics, and button placement. I only cancelled because its not something I absolutely need atm (no shooters that I desperately need it for right now).

It is quite steep in price though. $75 would've made more sense.

BTW, I'm keeping a lookout for the Shure 1840, which may be the high end velour padded, open can I want/need, though MSRP is $700.


----------



## bluemax23

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I realize that buying two headphones would be an obvious solution, but I would really prefer not to do that.  What is the best pair of headphones I could get from bestbuy.com that would satisfy the above criteria?  My budget is under $200.  Thanks for any suggestions.


 


  I have the same dilemma as you, I would like to keep AX720 amp and replace the default headphones with some which have better soundstage and front/rear separation. Superlux 668B seems like a good deal, but I am not sure if it will be a significant improvement over AX720 headphones. Please let us know when you buy new ones, to give some impressions about surround sound difference.


----------



## rabidgamer

So I sold the DT 770 Pro 80s, as much as the positioning impressed me, overall they were just too muddy, as soon as anything hectic happened the positioning went right out the window, they just didn't wow me lol.
   
  I also got rid of my CALs, although I do enjoy them they just barely ever got used, no point in keeping them around.
   
  The only headphones I have atm are the HFI 780s and although I LOVE them for music, they are just too harsh sounding in DH for me, that and they are pretty uncomfortable, although the positioning/imaging is nice. Just wish they weren't as harsh.
   
  Anyone tried the Pro 900s with the Mixamp? thinking about upgrading from the 780s and using the Pro 900s for music as well, would just love a can that I can enjoy with music and gaming.


----------



## Hailin

i am still looking for Beyers or AKG to round out my budding love for headphones. I am wondering though if a headphone amp would have cleared out some of the muddiness of this model. Or if that is just the way it goes. Also as far as amps I am stuck between the a couple I am stuck lol. E17, matrix M with 627A from TAM, /sigh it is just another slippery slope.
  Quote: 





rabidgamer said:


> So I sold the DT 770 Pro 80s, as much as the positioning impressed me, overall they were just too muddy, as soon as anything hectic happened the positioning went right out the window, they just didn't wow me lol.
> 
> I also got rid of my CALs, although I do enjoy them they just barely ever got used, no point in keeping them around.
> 
> ...


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I am wondering though if a headphone amp would have cleared out some of the muddiness of this model.


 
   
  The bass of the DT770 Pro 80 may sound muddier from a high impedance source, like a 75 or 100Ω onboard audio jack. This of course applies to many other headphones as well, but for something that is already boomy, adding even more bass resonance may be too much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As easy as the DT770 Pro 80s are to drive, they could definitely benefit from a strong amp that tightens up bass area. Though, they are still slow and boomy among the worst that I've tried in that regard. Only the XB500/700, Koss UR40 (dunno why), DT770/600 (dunno why either as these are usually bass light) came out worse in terms of overwhelming bass.


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





bluemax23 said:


> I have the same dilemma as you, I would like to keep AX720 amp and replace the default headphones with some which have better soundstage and front/rear separation. Superlux 668B seems like a good deal, but I am not sure if it will be a significant improvement over AX720 headphones. Please let us know when you buy new ones, to give some impressions about surround sound difference.


 


  I ordered the Creative Aurvana Live from amazon.  They should be coming sometime next week.  I'll be sure to post my impressions.


----------



## nfnity

How's the SQ on the mixamp just as a DAC for music if you bypass dolby headphone and feed it digitally via spdif? Is its DAC comparable with something like the fiio e7? It should at least be better than onboard sound.

 @MLE
  It seems you missed my post about the german headzone review.


----------



## livingplastic

My pre-modded HD555's arrived today. I haven't played any games yet just listening to some music to test some things out.
   
  #1 I thought these were going to be a little harder to drive. I have a razer barracuda ac-1 and I think I need the volume turned down more on these 555 than my old skullcandy agent's. I have a xonar DG on the way and should be here this week.
   
  #2 Why are people complaining about the bass with these headphones? The bass is huge, punchy and tight compared to any headphone I've ever used in the past.
   
  So far I'm very impressed with these for $75 ...
   
  Now for some INTERESTING news... I've preemptively Ordered something neat. Something probably so overkill for my undeveloped ears that it's ridiculous. I bought a pair of STAX. Not some electret wanna be. Not some numbered cans that doesn't justify the name but a true electrostatic letter set of cans. Stax Gamma with the srd6/sb. What am I in for? I have a few power amplifiers to choose from a Realistic STA-2000, a Technics SA-AX810 and a Pioneer VSX 3300.
   
  I've heard that STAX have a notorious low bass output but since I'm quite satisfied with the hd555's bass perhaps it would be just right? Does anybody have any experience or advise with Stax "earspeakers" for gaming, movies and music? .... couldn't just call them headphones.


----------



## Hailin

Well I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of DT990pro 250ohm. They were 180 before shipping and taxes so I thought what the hell. Now to finally settle on an amp for my cans.


----------



## catscratch

livingplastic said:


> Now for some INTERESTING news... I've preemptively Ordered something neat. Something probably so overkill for my undeveloped ears that it's ridiculous. I bought a pair of STAX. Not some electret wanna be. Not some numbered cans that doesn't justify the name but a true electrostatic letter set of cans. Stax Gamma with the srd6/sb. What am I in for? I have a few power amplifiers to choose from a Realistic STA-2000, a Technics SA-AX810 and a Pioneer VSX 3300.
> 
> I've heard that STAX have a notorious low bass output but since I'm quite satisfied with the hd555's bass perhaps it would be just right? Does anybody have any experience or advise with Stax "earspeakers" for gaming, movies and music? .... couldn't just call them headphones.




Former competitive Quake 3 player here. Been gaming with electrostatics for years, though truthfully the last time I took anything competitive seriously was in Quake 3 OSP... 6 years ago?

Electrostatics don't all have weak bass. They vary in the bass about as much as dynamics do. Just as some dynamics have weak bass and some have monster bass, so do electrostatics. The issue with 'stats is that in order to have big bass they also need a beefy amp, so most of the cheapish budget amps out there really aren't enough to wake the headphones up basswise. That, and a lot of the square Stax, which most people use until they get to something like the O2, kinda lack bass. Hence the reputation for 'stats lacking bass in general, and overall it's not true.

Personally I think 'stats are overkill for gaming. Most games have pretty poorly recorded sound and electrostatics simply have too much detail to tolerate it. So instead of being fully immersive like they should they only expose the flaws in the game engine. In terms of positioning, they're just fine, the positioning is as good as anything you can get your hands on but again, not necessarily better. I really feel that with the way sound engines are in most games, going seriously high-end is totally unnecessary to extract the maximum sonic performance out of a game. For Q3/QL something like a DT770 is totally sufficient. I use the O2 just because I already have it, so why not. Also it's amazingly comfortable.

FWIW though Skyrim uses FLACs for its soundtrack IIRC and generally has a very well done sound engine, so it was a real treat on the O2. I had to constantly keep reminding myself to not turn the volume up to monster levels since as you will most likely find out, electrostatics will go _loud_ without any distortion at all, and it's very easy to hit well past hearing damage levels and not really notice it.

With the Gammas, make sure they're in good condition, and if there are any issues with channel balance, constant popping, crackling, or squeaking sounds that happen _when you're not moving your headphones_, or totally missing bass, let people know, preferably in the Stax thread. These headphones are getting a little long in the tooth and some issues can potentially crop up - but there are ways to fix them as well.

If they work fine you're in for one hell of a nice pair of cans. Electrostatics present detail in such an amazingly natural way, without excessive brightness that usually comes with detailed dynamics. Plus they handle complex music way better than dynamics can and are actually great for things like metal, rock, and busy electronica.

Most stats are utterly ruthless when it comes to sources and recording quality, so be ready to want to upgrade your source and generally get better quality files.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

nfnity, thanks I did see that. 

BTW guys...



At least now I'm 100% sure it wasn't the L7 LOD OR the E9 dock that were faulty. My E7's proprietary input just.... well, you can see what happened, lol.

So now, I have zero functionality between the E7 and E9 (though the E7 still works perfectly fine as it's own DAC/AMp via USB, and the D7000 sounds damn good off it). Oh well. Guess I can move the D3 from the bedroom to the computer desk for now. I've been looking for a new dac/amp anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g9WjcGdxuM[/VIDEO]


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


 

 you bought A1?


----------



## obazavil

*duplicated*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Headzone!


----------



## Phos

How's it work?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Headzone!


----------



## DCB305

Interested in your review of the headzone after your done playing with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just got it, and I'm setting it up now. Before anyone asks, I only bought the base. No MMX300/DT880s or headtracker. This is simply going to function as a very expensive, glorified Mixamp, with a different virtual surround than Dolby Headphone. 

The issue being that it has a 100ohm output impedance, which is only really perfect with.... 800ohm+ headphones, lol, which makes no sense to bundle it with a 32ohm like the MMX300. But we'll see how it deals with the very low 25ohm D7000. If anything, attaching another amp to is (the way we do with the Mixamp), will bypass that issue.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





catscratch said:


> *snip*


 

 Nice write-up. My impression on the "bass-shy" reputation electrostatics have was that the _sound_ was there, but that the _slam_ wasn't...but if what you say is true, it's more of a trait of the Lambda series design (possibly the most common electrostatics around) along with amplifiers that don't have enough voltage swing.
   
  Even though they're overkill for just gaming, I still wouldn't want to do without my Stax Lambdas for gaming. All-day comfort, plus that atmospheric presentation that works nicely with games to me...but the positional advantages may have more to do with CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone or similar technologies than anything else.
   
  Also, I see that MLE has a Headzone...can't wait to see a writeup on whether or not it's worth the hefty US$1,000+ price tag.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First impressions (like literally 30 minutes in):

It's good... but in all honesty, it's too much like the Mixamp, so.... I don't see much of a benefit other than adjusting room size and ambience. In terms of sheer surround positioning (with BLOPS and Mass Effect 2), it feels relatively the same. More testing to be done, but other than the benefit of having virtual surround for movies (DTS works, meaning all Blu-Rays will work with this), can't justify the $1100 tag. I was expecting something much closer to the binaural demo (though it says Dolby Headphone, it is NOT Dolby Headphone, it is BINAURAL):


[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkunPQMhN4[/VIDEO]

The rear positioning on that demo is INCREDIBLE. Both DH and the Headzone's DSP don't do it as well.



My impressions may change, but I honestly don't see it happening.

One thing to note: The D7000 doesn't sound like it's messed up or anything, which was a fear due to the high 100ohm output impedance.


----------



## Phos

Ya know the PS3 can transcode from DTS to Dolby, pretty handy feature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, no it can't. If you check the DTS box, Blu-Rays with DTS NEVER play any sound off the Mixamp (which only takes Dolby Digital). Also no DTS enabled game plays any sound off the Mixamp unless I uncheck DTS. Blu-rays have core audio files that will play sound, however, it won't be DTS or DD.

Unless you're doing something to transcode it. 

What the PS3 WILL do is downconvert every signal to Linear 2 channel PCM.

the only time the Mixamp will work properly with Blu-ray is if the main audio file you selected for playback is tied to Dolby, like Dolby True HD (the core Dolby Digital signal is in there).

As a test, you can just take any movie that has multiple language tracks. Pretty much EVERY time the main file is DTS related, the secondary languages will be Dolby.


----------



## DCB305

do you have any harder to drive cans, interested to see how well it amplifies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dcb305 said:


> do you have any harder to drive cans, interested to see how well it amplifies.




No anymore, though the brochure states that the recommended headphones are the T1 and 250ohm DT880s.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> First impressions (like literally 30 minutes in):
> 
> It's good... but in all honesty, it's too much like the Mixamp, so.... I don't see much of a benefit other than adjusting room size and ambience. In terms of sheer surround positioning (with BLOPS and Mass Effect 2), it feels relatively the same. More testing to be done, but other than the benefit of having virtual surround for movies (DTS works, meaning all Blu-Rays will work with this), can't justify the $1100 tag.


 

 Thanks for the impressions.  Sounds like it's probably not worth it just for gaming?..
   
  Where did you get it?  Can you return it or do you have to turn around and sell it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got it from Amazon. Looks like I can return it, though I will lose around $17... for the pickup and refund deduction. Worth checking it out, anyways.

Did pretty good on Black ops, but it really is the same as the Mixamp for me.


The PC360 sounds especially good off it. I guess the impedance mismatch added a beneficial euphonic distortion to it.


----------



## chicolom

For $1000, I would expect something more like this....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D7000 with the room setting maxed out sounds phenomenal. No hiss either. Its good, justnot worth it over the Mixamp.


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The D7000 with the room setting maxed out sounds phenomenal. No hiss either. Its good, justnot worth it over the Mixamp.


 


  Nah... since we are talking about your money...
   
  you should keep it.. haha 
   
  Next you can try the realiser 
  http://smyth-research.com/products.html


----------



## DCB305

anyone have any recommendations for reasonably priced<$400.00 headphone amp for AKG Q701?


----------



## autoteleology

So, I finally went out and bought the HD598 with money I have saved up. I can only thank your review for helping me out. 
   
  I've never used open headphones before, and I'm really excited.


----------



## Drastion

Thanks for the info on the headzone. Was looking to get one for blueray. Wonder if the heaDSPeaker is any good. Its cheaper by a lot but you get what you pay for.

Now if only astro would get the 5.8 in stock.

While I wait what is everyones favorite just for fun game with dolby headphone.

I am most looking forward to dead space. Horror and imersive headphone sounds like a match made in heaven.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I popped in Avatar on Blu-Ray and went right for the action scenes.

Headzone + D7000 = OMFGAWESOME

If I return it, I WILL definitely be missing what it does to Blu-Rays. Talk about immersion and quality. It's amazing.

It's a damn shame most the overwhelming majority of Blu-Rays are DTS encoded. I would be SO happy if the Mixamp could decode DTS. 

For gaming overall, stick to Dolby Headphone as it's 100% of the positional performance that the Headzone provides.

$1100 amp just for movies = overkill... and I never tend to watch movies alone, so it makes sense to return it... but boy, it's awesome.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dcb305 said:


> anyone have any recommendations for reasonably priced<$400.00 headphone amp for AKG Q701?


 

  
  I use a Matrix M-Stage with mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 

  
  Quote: 





drastion said:


> While I wait what is everyones favorite just for fun game with dolby headphone.
> 
> I am most looking forward to *dead space*. Horror and imersive headphone sounds like a match made in heaven.


 

 Q701s for me.
   
  Dead space is probably my favorite single player game of this gen.  10/10 for me.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> $1100 amp just for movies = overkill... and I never tend to watch movies alone, so it makes sense to return it... but boy, it's awesome.


 

 Return it and get some T1s!
   
  Or test out those Shures.  I haven't read anything about their soundstage though....


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





dcb305 said:


> anyone have any recommendations for reasonably priced<$400.00 headphone amp for AKG Q701?


 

 The Objective2 is a good choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Return it and get some T1s!
> 
> Or test out those Shures.  I haven't read anything about their soundstage though....




For now, I really want a flashy dac/amp all in one, but I can only get it from Amazon. Burson HA-160 DS is what I'm probably gonna go for. All this about output impedance and whatnot, yet the D7000 sounded absolutely fine off a 100ohm output impedance. The 5 ohm output impedance on the Burson should be fine. I was gonna get a DAcMini, but Amazon doesn't sell it with the 1ohm option.

I'd get a Bifrost and a very good SS amp, but I dunno what stand alone I'd get.

That's most likely what I'm going to do.

The T1... someone here was going to sell me one for a really good price. But I held back because of the Headzone.


----------



## maverickronin

I kind of wonder if it really is 100 ohms on the Headzone.  I can imagine the engineers changing it and the marketroids copying the specs off the A1.
   
  Do you have a multimeter or anything MLE?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. All I know is that the D7000 sounded NOTICEABLY better off just the Headzone, than when I plugged in either the E7 alone, or E9 alone (both which have different levels of output impedance). Tested this with the Headzone running off just 2 channel, and with the DSP. So whether a high output impedance alters sound doesn't matter that much to me, considering how great both the D7000 and PC360 sounded.

I can live with 5ohm output impedance of the Burson.


----------



## maverickronin

How does the bass compare to the E9?  If the Headzone is better I'd find it hard to believe that it really is 100 ohms.


----------



## stv014

Quote:  





> Do you have a multimeter or anything MLE?


 

 Even without a multimeter, the high output impedance can be shown by the fact that the D7000 is not as much louder compared to other, higher impedance headphones as expected.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, actually, the D7000 had a lot of play on the volume knob. It's usually very sensitive to even a lowly E7.

maverick, the sound off the Headzone was thick and meaty, wherwas the E9 is thinner. The bass was definitely fuller off the headzone, but not overwhelming. I rather enjoyed it. The treble was more in line with the mids, whereas they sound harsh on the E9 by comparison.

It reminded me a lot off how the D7000 sounded off the Lyr, without the hum.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> Even without a multimeter, the high output impedance can be shown by the fact that the D7000 is not as much louder compared to other, higher impedance headphones as expected.


 

 Yeah.  There's nothing high impedance left in his sig though so the differences won't be quite as dramatic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scratch that, the bass was different on the Lyr, it was infinitely more controlled. The bass did feel a bit loose on the Headzone, but it worked for movies/games. Not sure I'd be into it for music.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Scratch that, the bass was different on the Lyr, it was infinitely more controlled. The bass did feel a bit loose on the Headzone, but it worked for movies/games. Not sure I'd be into it for music.


 

 OK.  That makes sense then.  There's no way the Lyr could put so much power into low impedance loads if it had a high output impedance.  I guess it is 100 ohms then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Watching Avatar was damn awesome with the D7000 though. So I guess the high impedance gives it a more theater like sound to it, because off the E9, it sounded like what I'm used to with it off the Mixamp on a Dolby Digital source. The Headzone with DTS is absolutely incredible. Just not $1100 incredible. If they sold the Headzone for $500, I'd recommend it to everyone here.


----------



## maverickronin

Its stupidly expensive.  I think mostly because the A1 its based on is already stupidly expensive.  If they sold the Headzone for $500 there would be no reason to buy an A1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I can see the A1 maybe going for $400, and the Headzone for $600... though I'm not certain how close in spec the amp section is on the A1 vs Headzone. The tech specs looked different, but that's probably because the DSP may have had to change some things around. They very will may be the same exact amp... and not just by looks.

But seriously, I don't see there being anywhere near a solid market for the Headzone. Gamers with some cash would eat it right up if they priced it accordingly. I'd be down for $600 at the MOST.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I decided to go with I wanted... Burson HA-160DS. End of story, it's bought. XD

edit: Aww, damn, I thought I edited my post. My bad for double post.

Guess I'll be relegating the E9 to my TV area so I can D3/E9 whenever I wanna use my cans when I watch TV shows/anime/whatever is on the computer in my room. (I have a very long running HDMI cable from my living room to the bedroom for this purpose, but no way to use my headphones in that situation).


----------



## tdockweiler

Burson HA-160DS you say? You know what goes really nice with that amp? The Q701. Hint..hint..just kidding.
   
  Wonder if the W1000X is any good for gaming..I sure missing my ATH-AD2000 for gaming, but it was too uncomfortable.
  The forwardness of it's mids reminded me of the SA3000. Weird..
   
  If I ever buy the W1000X and it's drivers touch  my ears like on my ATH-AD200 I'm going to throw a fit.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I decided to go with I wanted... Burson HA-160DS. End of story, it's bought. XD
> edit: Aww, damn, I thought I edited my post. My bad for double post.
> Guess I'll be relegating the E9 to my TV area so I can D3/E9 whenever I wanna use my cans when I watch TV shows/anime/whatever is on the computer in my room. (I have a very long running HDMI cable from my living room to the bedroom for this purpose, but no way to use my headphones in that situation).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I won't be buying any wing design Audio Technica... ever again.

The Q701... 

Nah, I'm good with the D7K for now. My next headphone is either gonna be the Shure 1840 (actually up on Amazon for $700) or the Beyer T1. Then that's it for me and major audio expenses.

I am gonna miss the SQ on the Headzone. The Mixamp does pale in comparison, but what was most important was directional accuracy, which both are pretty much the same in.


----------



## chicolom

I bet chaining the Burson after the Mixamp will improve the soundstage.  I mean, if my M-Stage can do it...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's a damn shame most the overwhelming majority of Blu-Rays are DTS encoded. I would be SO happy if the Mixamp could decode DTS.


 

 We have to get you a JVC/Victor SU-DH1 for you to review at some point. Unlike all the later products that have showed up for Dolby Headphone processing from S/PDIF sources, it does decode DTS.
   
  There aren't any on eBay at the moment, though, and only Victor-branded ones have the AC adapter port for some dumb reason, so unless you don't mind regularly changing pairs of AA batteries...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have rechargeable eneloops. 

Hmm... I forgot about that SU-DH1.

I wonder if the SU-DH1 converts DTS to Dolby Digital, and then to Dolby Headphone, or if it's a different DSP altogether?

I'm pretty sure Headzone's DTS DSP is different from the JVC/Victor (assuming it's not just a DTS to DD to DH conversion, which would be just fine by me).

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH1840-Professional-Open-Headphones/dp/B0073A4FM4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1328061643&sr=8-2

I want!


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Burson HA-160DS you say? You know what goes really nice with that amp? The Q701. Hint..hint..just kidding.
> 
> Wonder if the W1000X is any good for gaming..I sure missing my ATH-AD2000 for gaming, but it was too uncomfortable.
> The forwardness of it's mids reminded me of the SA3000. Weird..
> ...


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I won't be buying any wing design Audio Technica... ever again.
> The Q701...
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  I have an AD700 and an A900, the AD700 grills touch my ears, but the A900 grills do not.  I believe it is due to the bowl shaped pads the open AT's use.  
   
  Edit: And for the price of the Headzone you could get a receiver that does Dolby Headphone, or even a home theater PC if there are any cards that will accept 5.1 Dolby and output Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I had some very bad experiences with the AD700's pads, the headband, and the drivers shocking me every once in awhile.. Those A900 pleathers look like a different kind of torture altogether.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have rechargeable eneloops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  All DH needs is a 5.1 or 7.1 signal so all it would have to do is decode the DTS into a normal 6 or 8 channel signal and send it to DH.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I had some very bad experiences with the AD700's pads, the headband, and the drivers shocking me every once in awhile.. Those A900 pleathers look like a different kind of torture altogether.


 

 They're actually vinyl, I believe, but they don't last so long.  I since replaced them with genuine leather pads meant for W5000's.  The static electricity is sometimes a problem for me on cold days, but where I live the high humidity usually prevents it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like the Shure 1840 may be a touch too analytical for my taste. Maybe the Q701 WILL be my complimentary can of choice... I'll wait and see more comparisons, but by Headroom's impression, the HE500 is more 'fun' and has more bass... and I don't exactly want the HE500...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... I forgot about that SU-DH1.
> I wonder if the SU-DH1 converts DTS to Dolby Digital, and then to Dolby Headphone, or if it's a different DSP altogether?
> I'm pretty sure Headzone's DTS DSP is different from the JVC/Victor (assuming it's not just a DTS to DD to DH conversion, which would be just fine by me).


 

 I doubt it does, for that would be unnecessarily complicated.
   
  The SU-DH1's DSP chip is an older revision, now out of production (which is presumably why you can't buy them new anymore). A bit more powerful and power-hungry, along with support for DH1 and DH3 Dolby Headphone modes in addition to the usual DH2 (which the Mixamp and DSS can only use). It wouldn't be too unreasonable to believe that it can support DTS directly as well, though there's still the matter of licensing to consider. (That, and having taken apart the SU-DH1 before just out of curiosity, I notice another major IC that isn't the Dolby Headphone DSP. Who knows what it does...)
   
  We don't know what exact HRTF virtual 7.1 tech the Headzone uses, but it's probably not something widely licensed like Dolby Headphone. It might have been necessary if they wanted to implement head-tracking that badly. On top of that, the Headzone is clearly still in production.


----------



## livingplastic

I got my Xonar DG soundcard in today. So far it sounds pretty good but I'm confused with the gui coming from the razer. I don't know when Dolby Headphone is enabled and things of that nature. Does anybody have any suggestions for setting this card up for gaming with the hd555's?
   
  Also Thank you Catscratch for your input. It is very appreciated. My Gamma's will have some slight cosmetic issue's mainly the leather strap needs repaired but I have been assured that the sound is balanced and in good form overall. I'll keep my finger's crossed however.


----------



## Drastion

Has anyone tried the iomega dts surround sensation?

Www.go.iogear.com/ms/dts/

Its only for pc but its only 40 may be worth a try.

Www.iogear.com/product/GUADT51/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I realized I ordered the Burson with my credit card... whoops. Cancel request sent. I meant to order it with my Amazon card. :rolleyes:


----------



## SniperCzar

Brand new guy here, already posted this over in the Nameless PC oriented thread, but I thought I'd post it here as I didn't see any mention of it when I glanced through earlier. If you've got a Creative card and Windows 7, you can pass the CMSS software processing along to ANY audio device (including external USB DACs) to bypass the circuitry on the internal card. This pretty much seals my purchase of the FiiO E17 which I was already looking at as a good partner for my DT770 Pro 80s, being able to retain the virtual surround feature of my internal card while using a great external DAC just sweetens the deal for me. Here's how to do the handoff of CMSS processed output *completely in software*:
   
Before following this checklist, make sure your current audio device is fully configured for CMSS (Windows configure speakers wizard is done and set to a surround setup, Creative Console speakers set to headphones, CMSS-3D is enabled, Crystalizer is disabled, "Disable Sound Blaster enhancements" under the Sound Blaster tab of your default audio device's properties is unchecked). I like unchecking the sub in the Windows wizard here to create a virtual 5.0 rather than a virtual 5.1 because I think it may help tame the overbearing bass some of you were talking about on the 770 80 ohms. The Beyers are already mashing together the bass output from the other 5 virtual channels into a pair of very bass-capable headphones, do you really need a virtual sub as well? Also, as we all know, subwoofer bass position is something your brain can't pinpoint, so I don't see why you'd want lots of it in your pinpoint accurate virtual surround. I think I remember hearing a noticeable difference with this changed in my limited A-B testing with a ripped BD of Evangellion 1.11 (the last battle scene has explosions and technobabbling jumping ALL over every channel when I listen with my physical 5.1 Acoustic Research HC6, so far it's by far the best test of virtual surround I've tried yet), but I wish I had another pair of Beyers to do a real A-B and not rely on my terrible memory/imagination.
   
  1. Right click on your volume tray in Windows 7 and select "Recording devices"
  2. Select "What U Hear" and click "Properties" (cringe inducing grammar there Creative)
  [Note - you do NOT have to set this as the default recording device]
  3. Select the "Listen" tab and check the box marked "Listen to this device"
  4. Under the drop down marked "Playback through this device:" select your desired DAC
  5. Make sure "Continue running when on battery power" is selected as a software passthrough should have no effect whatsoever on your battery life
  6. Select the "Levels" tab and set it to something comfortable, as the volume control for the Creative card's standard output will have no effect on the volume of the software recording device.
  7. Enjoy listening to CMSS freed from the noisy and inferior hardware confines of your internal soundcard!
   
  I just noticed as I was creating this guide that on the properties>levels>balance menu of a audio device that's been configured as 5.1 or 7.1 under Windows speaker config has a separate balance for each channel. I wonder if this actually works on either the Creative card or other DAC to turn down the sub or turn up areas that are weaker in the soundstage. I'll try and do some more research on this when I get the time to do a better A-B comparison of a bunch of different software settings.
   
  Hopefully someone else finds the steps I've written in this guide useful, I know I did. Now I just need to go pick up an E17 from somewhere and see how it sounds with CMSS passed along to it in BF3...


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I am gonna miss the SQ on the Headzone. The Mixamp does pale in comparison, but what was most important was directional accuracy, which both are pretty much the same in.


 

  
  I know you just ordered a new amp that will take care of this issue but why did you never consider a receiver?  I have a mixamp but game primarily using my more than decade old Sony receiver simply because it's SQ absolutely BLOWS the mixamp away.  It decodes DD and DTS and while it doesn't have Dolby Headphone branding (i bought it before that existed), Sony's proprietary Headphone Theater does just as good of a job as the mixamp in terms of positional cues.  My particular receiver also lets you adjust the soundstage as well so there really is no downside to it, in comparison to the mixamp.  The mixamp is a great product and I'm not knocking it, it just can't hold a candle to the SQ and features of a solid receiver -- which to be fair, it shouldn't be expected to considering how much more money I spent on that receiver vs the mixamp.  I ask simply because to me a receiver seems like the most obvious solution for something that can be used for gaming, music and movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Receivers are good IF they have built in virtual surround. Harman Kardon sells receivers with Dolby Headphone. Yamaha sells some with Silent Cinema. There are various virtual surround processors, but I don't know how they stack up to DH. 

The Headzone was solid because its well known to use high quality processing for virtual surround. Make no mistake, it is amazing, and paired up with the SQ of the amp itself, it is noticably better than the Mixamp. However, when I'm gaming, I'm more:

60% directional accuracy
40% pure sound quality

So while the Mixamp won't win overall, it will give me enough bang for buck, to choose it over the Headzone.

 For movies, I don't really use headphones, and for music/whatever else is on my computer, that's what a real headphone amp/dac is for.


----------



## Cheapy

Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> I got my Xonar DG soundcard in today. So far it sounds pretty good but I'm confused with the gui coming from the razer. I don't know when Dolby Headphone is enabled and things of that nature. Does anybody have any suggestions for setting this card up for gaming with the hd555's?


 

 Make sure DX is disabled is a good start as that seems to be the cause for quite a few problems. If its turned off the GX button is not lit up green.

 I normally use the 8 channel with dolby headphone for gaming and sometimes use SVN too. Just click on the drop down list for audio channel and pick what you want. To turn on dolby headphone click the box towards the bottom of the panel and a small tick in the box indicates dolby headphone is running.
   
  Some other options to look at are the 7.1 virtualisation (button above dolby headphone) and the SVN button below the volume. SVN magnifies the quietier sounds around you it seems so footsteps, whistling of wind etc all seem louder and easier to hear. If the button is lit up green its on.
   
  Just mess around with the settings until you find somthing you like. Hope this helps a tad.


----------



## Danny0990

Im considering buying the lyr for my dt990/600. How much better would they drive my headphones compared to the fiio E9 and O2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Lyr is a whole lot of amp for the DT990/600.


----------



## Danny0990

I feel like these bad boys have so much more potential. Would I be wrong to say my E9 is bottlenecking them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the E9 has a lot of power for 600ohms. However, the E9 doesn't tame treble at all, so it's not an ideal match with the treble happy DT990s. The Lyr should be very awesome with the DT990s. I didn't own them at the same time, but the Lyr was a great match with the HE-4, which reminded me a lot of the DT990s. The only thing is that stock tubes on the Lyr will have recessed mids compared to the E9, so the DT990 will have a gaping hole in the mids until you change out the tubes to some mid forward ones. The stock tubes I'm talking about are the E88CC, not the 6BZ7 (which I didn't hear). The 6N1P tubes are better than the E88CC, but still recessed in mids compared to the E9. Though the mids are recessed, everything else is improved on the Lyr vs the E9. The sound is fuller, bass is strong but super tight, and treble is more natural.

UPS has picked up the Headzone for return.... now the wait... the DT990s still haven't shown up as returned yet, though I expect them to show up by the end of the week.


----------



## Danny0990

Hmm, as much as I don't mind getting my hands dirty with hardware, I do enough of that at my job. Which amp would you recommend that will compliment the treble, bass, and mids? I was also considering the O2 and Valhalla


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how well the O2 handles 600ohms, but assuming you're not using very efficient headphones (like the D7000), the Lyr should be a lot more impressive for your choices. I'd just take my time on the tube rolling thread to see what tubes bring out the mids, because I felt them lacking with both the E8CC and 6N1P. That or the E9 is mid rich. =/


----------



## LilBuck

I bought some Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm phones, and want to figure out what I should do with regards to DAC/AMPs. The source for everything will be my self built Win7 64 bit pc.
   
  I currently mostly use the headphones for video games and will continue to do so with the new headphones, but I plan on listening to music a lot more with the improved setup.
   
  My question is how much of an improvement an external amp/dac provide over one of the nicer sound cards (seems like Asus Essence STX and HT Omega Claro are the best). Would those sufficiently power 600 ohm headphones? The literature they produce says they will, but I would rather hear it from a knowledeable head-fier than the people who are trying to sell me the cards.
   
  Even with a sound card that says it can drive the Beyer's I feel like I would prefer to just buy an amp for them. If I just bought one of those cards + an amp (say Shiit Asgard or Matrix M Stage) that should provide really good quality gaming sound, and still decent quality sound for music, right? I haven't really figured out if I should just get a DAC and AMP or if AMP + sound card is a better option for me. Thanks for any help


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno how well the O2 handles 600ohms


 

 Similarly to the E9.


----------



## Phos

NwAvGuy designed the O2 to be able to handle 600 ohm Beyer.


----------



## Danny0990

Ill further look into the lyrs preferred tubing for the 990 600 beyers. I'm really looking to tame the treble and increase the mids and soundstage, extra bass being a bonus.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





lilbuck said:


> I bought some Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm phones, and want to figure out what I should do with regards to DAC/AMPs. The source for everything will be my self built Win7 64 bit pc.
> 
> I currently mostly use the headphones for video games and will continue to do so with the new headphones, but I plan on listening to music a lot more with the improved setup.
> 
> ...


 

 I just posted a guide on how to enable CMSS on Win7 with *any *external DAC/Amp chain, you can pick up a cheap Creative card for ~$25 and then just completely ignore the hardware and use the bundled software to do CMMS virtual surround on anything you want. Cheaper and easier than getting an Astro+amp, better choice of components too.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





cheapy said:


> Make sure DX is disabled is a good start as that seems to be the cause for quite a few problems. If its turned off the GX button is not lit up green.
> 
> I normally use the 8 channel with dolby headphone for gaming and sometimes use SVN too. Just click on the drop down list for audio channel and pick what you want. To turn on dolby headphone click the box towards the bottom of the panel and a small tick in the box indicates dolby headphone is running.
> 
> ...


 


  A huge help! This makes the asus gui make a ton more sense now. My questions remaining is what gain should I have the hd555 set for the medium or the highest it will go? Also I'm still confused by the "DX" , "GX" and "HF" or hi fi options. I don't see a DX button and it looks like I can't have Hi Fi turned on with dolby headphone turned on. I think I would like to have the highest gain turned on but I don't want to damage my headphones if that would happen.


----------



## livingplastic

Warning keep your volume turned DOWN!!!... Can't stress that enough for you guys with the good headphones.
   
  So I was killing some time while I was downloading some things and found this on you tube. 
 Dolby© Digital Surround Sound Test  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8QaE0I_3do&feature=related  ...... for what it is, it made me lol
   
  Still keep your volume turned DOWN.. the guy waits a little bit to start the audio so you'll turn up the volume. Son of a b1tch... lolz


----------



## Phos

All I hear are porno sounds out of one channel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Started playing Final Fantasy XIII-2 off the PS3 with the Mixamp/D7000. Initial impression on the sound in the game is very good. The bass is actually quite tight and balanced in the game. Even with the very intense opening cinematic and fights, the bass never roared. It was a refreshing change of pace, as the D7000 vibrates in an awesome way when it gets bassy, but this game hasn't demanded much bass yet, which is fine.

I love that the D7000 is so efficient, they run so well off the Mixamp. It sounds open, crisp, and pleasing.


----------



## Drastion

Just wanted to let people know. Electronics expo has a half off sale on the denon ah-d110. Put in coupon code LSDA12 and with shipping it comes out to 107.49.

Not a bad deal if you like the look over the creative live!

Also another headset thats been getting some recent interest here. The akg q701 with coupon code LISTEN30 is 236.47 with shipping.

Want to get this one myself wanting to hear chicolom's comparisons on the different models.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's the D1101 which is not the alternate CAL. D1001 is what the CAL is a clone of, which was discontinued.

Apparently, the D1101 is very bassy, very warm...


----------



## janvaljan

Hello everyone, first of all thank you "madlust envy", it's a fantastic thread, review and so on,
  it's nice to read many of the posts, I have a question:
   
  I use pro 900 for gaming, bass is fantastic,ok, i enjoy a lot in cinematic scenes.
  But in competitive gaming; it's sometimes hard for me to observe the opponents position (instead
  the pro 900 soundstage is accepted large) ,my plan was to get an akg k702 or q701 for a more
  balanced, mid rich headphone for listening to music (compliment of pro 900) 
   
  After reading your comments you place ad700 a little bit forward position acording to all other
  headphones in competitive mode fro games. If i get ad700 i think i will use it only in games but if i get
  akg one i also will use it in listening to music, so is there a huge difference in sound stage
  when you compare both according to your experiences.
   
  Thanks a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

janvaljan said:


> Hello everyone, first of all thank you "madlust envy", it's a fantastic thread, review and so on,
> it's nice to read many of the posts, I have a question:
> 
> I use pro 900 for gaming, bass is fantastic,ok, i enjoy a lot in cinematic scenes.
> ...




Go for the AKGs. They run circles around the AD700s overall, and make the obsolete.


----------



## Drastion

mad lust envy said:


> That's the D1101 which is not the alternate CAL. D1001 is what the CAL is a clone of, which was discontinued.
> Apparently, the D1101 is very bassy, very warm...




My bad remembeted the model number.

Janvaljan - best price I found on the k701 is 220 but its only the white version

www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=K701WHT&status=


----------



## janvaljan

Ok its clear  thanks.

I'll ask one thing more; forgive my less knowledge but what's "dolby headphone" or "dh"? Actually i know what dolby headphone is, but how can we provide it at output of pc?

-------

Ok Drastion, the white one is my favorite im checking  thank you very much.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





janvaljan said:


> Ok its clear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
  http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=208809374&sellerid=34152738 or http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O or this now http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132022 if you have CONSOLES you want to use as well.
   
  If not a sound card would do you the best. I would recommend the Asus Xonar DG http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132020R for $15!!!!!!!!?????. If you want the big stuff you can get Creative's Recon 3d sound card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102041 that should be in the $100 range I think or this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132014 .
   
  I can't beleive I could have gotten the damn card for free instead of wasting my $15 gift card and still paying $20 and still have a rebate to deal with... last week


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





phos said:


> All I hear are porno sounds out of one channel.


 


 Did you keep your volume down and lol at what that was. I thought it was real funny after I got over having that woman scream in my ear at a high volume. LOL come here test your new headphones. BAM! your in china town!


----------



## livingplastic

Ahhh!!... I'm not liking Medal of Honor MP. Is it true that this is one of the best dolby headphone pc games? Cause I don't hear it. Of coarse it doesn't help I'm hating it constantly. First it was the constant Black flickering. Edited the .ini and set the bloom to low. That fixed that. But I feel like I'm catching and tripping over every nook and cranny in these POS maps. Then my team mates run into me and circle infront of me. and the sounds, the sounds is just random yelling for no reason and gun shots and explosions every where all the time. It's just so constant I can't really distinguish anything.
   
  It seems like having the gain set to the highest setting on the xonar makes everything too bright. Does that make any sense? Any suggestions or wisdom about the MOH game on a xonar dg with hd555's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That game is terrible. Audio is good, but I never felt that Battlefield, Bad Company, or MoH had much in the way of actual directional audio cues, so I wouldn't call them great for virtual surround.


----------



## carnybaby

Hi livingplastic,
   
  I read your post on the previous page regarding amps for console play and one of those mentioned is the asus xonar usb 2.0.
   
  I cant find any information from my searching wether this will work with My HD555's for dolby headphone sound on the ps3? I was just hoping you could confirm that it is compatible. I dont mind getting additonal cables etc if need be but it would nice to have a portable solution i can use with pc and ps3.

 Many thanks in advance


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





carnybaby said:


> Hi livingplastic,
> I read your post on the previous page regarding amps for console play and one of those mentioned is the asus xonar usb 2.0.
> I cant find any information from my searching wether this will work with My HD555's for dolby headphone sound on the ps3? I was just hoping you could confirm that it is compatible. I dont mind getting additonal cables etc if need be but it would nice to have a portable solution i can use with pc and ps3.


 

 Asus Xonar USB 2.0?, are talking about the Asus Xonar U3 USB sound card?
  The U3 will work with the Senn HD555, on the Windows PC.
  The Asus Xonar U3 will not work on the PS3, to the best of my knowledge.


----------



## carnybaby

Thanks for that PurpleAngel.
   
  Yes it didnt seem as if it could, just I read Livingplastic's post and it was listed along with the astro mixamp as a console ready alternative 
   
  Any suggestions about which to go for regarding multi platform support. I have no need for the voice part, just interested in having accurate surround for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the Turtle Beach DSS 2. Its cheap, and doesn't come with voice chat, but adds functions to personalize DH.


----------



## DCB305

DSS2 is pretty legit, not as powerful as the Tritton decoder box, but there is no (not that I can hear anyways) noise. I have the PC360 mainly for gaming and use the DSS2 when I do not need the chat as it allows me to EQ the mids up to better hear my foes or in SP to increase immersion. Definitely would need an amp for harder to drive headphones but does a good job with the Senn PC360. On another note I do get aberrations when things get hectic, COD Ground War, with both the Tritton decoder and the DSS2, I don't know if it's due to the decoders processing or what though.


----------



## DCB305

would be nice if a company would put out a product that combines the benefits of all 3 (Astro mixamp, Tritton decoder, & Dss2). I would like one that allows 3rd party headphones and mics or headsets (Astro), has a puck similar to Tritton (mic on/off switch, voice volume control & game volume control independent of one another), and the EQ (although something more customizable) of the DSS2. Is that asking too much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How good is the personalization of virtual speaker placement? Aka surround angles.

I dunno how that would help in pure positioning, as DH has a pretty convincing virtual speaker placement, but I'd like to know how well rear speaker placement can get if you move them further behind you as opposed to 45 degrees at default. Rear positional cues have always been DH's weakest area, though with good headphones, it's not much of an issue.


----------



## DCB305

I haven't really done a thorough comparison on the VSP yet. I think for me to better gauge that aspect I would need some sort of control type testing in a private match as regular game play is too erratic. I'd do it if someone wants to help me, I game on PS3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Usually what I do (if you have BLOPS), is to go to combat training and play against bots. When they're busy shooting each other, turn your character around as to hear the gunshots and all behind you.


----------



## DCB305

It would still not be controlled to where I can really compare apples to apples, but I will give it a shot when i get some time and will report back.


----------



## chicolom

Sometimes, I find a game with a stationary noisy object, like a noisy generator or fire pit or something like that and walk around it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The problem with controlled testing is that DH actually works better when you're in the middle of thick action and not TRYING to get positional cues. Like certain speaker tests (like THX), rear placements will never sound like they are behind you. It's only when you're not focused on it that they will actually sound like they're behind you, IMHO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Sometimes, I find a game with a stationary noisy object, like a noisy generator or fire pit or something like that and walk around it.




That's something I tend to do more than I wanna admit. 

Problem is some games do it better than others. DH is very finicky.


----------



## DCB305

will try with black ops and let you guys know. The EQ'ing, although leaves a lot to be desired, is very helpful in bringing out certain frequencies to the front. It is a nice feature especially with such a more or less neutral can like the PC360. I also was expecting it to have some noise and was pleasantly surprised it didn't. I would still like the Trittonmixds unit.
   
  Quote: 





> would be nice if a company would put out a product that combines the benefits of all 3 (Astro mixamp, Tritton decoder, & Dss2). I would like one that allows 3rd party headphones and mics or headsets (Astro), has a puck similar to Tritton (mic on/off switch, voice volume control & game volume control independent of one another), and the EQ (although something more customizable) of the DSS2. Is that asking too much.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





carnybaby said:


> Hi livingplastic,
> 
> I read your post on the previous page regarding amps for console play and one of those mentioned is the asus xonar usb 2.0.
> 
> ...


 


  Opps.. Sorry about that. Either when I looked it up on google and saw something that made it look like it was compatible or mabey I just assumed because it was usb. Thats some real poop tho if it doesn't. They would have a lot more of the market covered if it was compatible. Boo


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That game is terrible. Audio is good, but I never felt that Battlefield, Bad Company, or MoH had much in the way of actual directional audio cues, so I wouldn't call them great for virtual surround.


 


 What would you recommend as a game that does have good DH sound? Positional cues or just really good in general. Here is some of the stuff I have on steam. IDK if any of that matters just if you see something that catches your eye. And ofcoarse games outside of this is very welcome. I have access to alot of different games at the moment.
   
Also what about movies? Do you have any recommendations there either?


----------



## Phos

As software audio games go TF2 has nice positional audio. Considering that Dolby Headphone doesn't care about hardware versus software, it's a pretty good choice.


----------



## Brick T0p

Hello Mad Lust Envy,
   
  I followed your advice and bought the Sennheiser PC 360. As a soundcard, I chose the Asus Xonar D1. But I have some questions regarding the settings of the soundcard. Hopefully, someone can help me so I can get the best out of my headset. This is how my Xonar Menu looks like: CLICK.
   
  My questions:
  - I chose 'game mode', best option I guess? Other options are hi-fi, music and movie.
  - Soundchannel: I chose two because I have a headset (2 speakers = 2 channels I guess)
  - Samplespeed: I chose the highest setting, 192Khz
  - Analog Out: Headphones (again, I have a headset. But what's the difference with the 'soundchannel' option?)
  - SPDIF out: I didn't select the 'PCM option' because I have no clue what it means. In that checkbox, I can chose between PCM and Dolby Digital Live
  - At default, Dolby Headphone is selected but 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter isn't. Good settings for gaming? And what about the Dolby Pro logic?
  - At the bottom right corner, there is a button which says 'GX'. Should I highlight it or not? Google learned me it is Asus' version of 'Creative Alchemy' (whatever that might be) but most people advice to turn it off.
   
  Ok guys, I know I have a lot of questions but I want it to be perfect before I connect my headset.  If you got more tips/advice for me, let me know! I really appreciate it!
   
  Thanks in advance and have a good day!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound

They may be able to help you more here, as I'm not a PC gamer.


----------



## hamzatm

Would a Fiio E7 Work well with an AD700 for gaming?
   
   
  I already have a Xonar DG, would I notice much of a difference if I used the E7?
   
  Also, the E5 is ridiculously cheaper, where does that into the mix?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Cheapy

Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> A huge help! This makes the asus gui make a ton more sense now. My questions remaining is what gain should I have the hd555 set for the medium or the highest it will go? Also I'm still confused by the "DX" , "GX" and "HF" or hi fi options. I don't see a DX button and it looks like I can't have Hi Fi turned on with dolby headphone turned on. I think I would like to have the highest gain turned on but I don't want to damage my headphones if that would happen.


 


  I would go with setting the gain for medium but just pick which ever fits your volume preferances best. You wont damage the headphone by using the higher gain as you go deaf before that.
   
  The GX button is used to simulate EAX effects in older games I think. But instead all it seems to do is to cause crashes, lock-ups etc of the computer so just turn it off and forget about it.
  Hi Fi im not sure what it does but I have it turned off for some reason.
  DX im not sure where that is so carnt help there.
   
  As for game/film suggestions I quite like Left 4 Dead 2 and Call of Pripyat I remember being good but I havnt played that in awhile. Iv found all films work well with it but action scences seem to be able to show it off the DH more.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





cheapy said:


> I would go with setting the gain for medium but just pick which ever fits your volume preferances best. You wont damage the headphone by using the higher gain as you go deaf before that.
> 
> The GX button is used to simulate EAX effects in older games I think. But instead all it seems to do is to cause crashes, lock-ups etc of the computer so just turn it off and forget about it.
> Hi Fi im not sure what it does but I have it turned off for some reason.
> ...


 


  Ahhh.. A good reason to start playing some STALKER again. That's helpful with the GX button. I don't think there is a DX button so don't worry about that. I think Hi-Fi will be used for music but I'm just not sure if it does anything. Perhaps a SPDIF out only kind of thing. THe medium gain is the correct choice. I tried it with the High Gain and it was just too bright and sparkly even at low volumes.
   
  Waiting on my Stax now. Guy waited a week to ship it Ahhh


----------



## theguythatthe

Got my Creative Aurvana Live! today.  I am extremely pleased with them.  They're exactly what I was looking for.  I think they improve on the AX720 headset in every way.  
   
  IMHO, the 720 headset sounds very chunky (almost v-shaped).  I enjoyed this sound for quite some time until I tried the PC360 which really brought the 720's lack of clarity to light.  Unfortunately, I found the PC360 and HD558 to be abrasive, fatiguing, and borderline tinny to my ears. Then again, I must really like warm sounding headphones.  To my ears, the CAL is a great middle ground.  I find them to have all of the immersive qualities of the 720 without compromising clarity.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





brick t0p said:


> I followed your advice and bought the Sennheiser PC 360. As a soundcard, I chose the Asus Xonar D1. But I have some questions regarding the settings of the soundcard. Hopefully, someone can help me so I can get the best out of my headset. This is how my Xonar Menu looks like: CLICK.
> My questions:
> - I chose 'game mode', best option I guess? Other options are hi-fi, music and movie.
> - Soundchannel: I chose two because I have a headset (2 speakers = 2 channels I guess)
> ...


 
  I'm far from a gaming expert, but here is my two cents.
  Game mode sounds right.
  Sound Channel, I believe you would set it to 7.1 channel for surround sound with headphones.
  Analog out, Headphone (after all a headset is just a headphone with a mic).
  S/PDIF  PCM is uncompressed audio, but I've heard that it's only 2-channel with S/PDIF, Dolby Digital live needs to have a decoder at the other end of the S/PDIF cable.
  GX is Asus's way of trying to emulate EAX 5.0, mixed results.
   
  Hopefully someone with more knowledge, will have better answers.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I just picked up a xonar dx to play around with myself and was wondering the same thing. I would love to know exactly what the sound channels do. The control panel seems to recommend using 8 for gaming, I don't know why. I have windows set to 7.1 with the control panel set to headphones and the sample rate at 48khz. Other than that I just enable dolby headphone with the second option, cinema. It sounds good to me. I was really impressed with the way that DH sounds in Skyrim. Now that is a big improvement over cmss-3d.


----------



## chicolom

My K702s came in.  I'll start comparing them to the Q701s....
   
  EDIT:  OK, right away I can tell the bass is DEFINITELY different.  Q701s have more bass.  Sounds like a bass boosted K702....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How much different? TRY and explain, fool! 

<3

What you say will most likely be the deciding factor on whether I get them or not. I've already made the decision to purchase the NFB 5 which should have plenty of power for the foreseeable future, as well as a DAC. :rolleyes:

The price is considerably less than the $800+ I was almost about to spend on the DAC/AMP, so it leaves me with some money for a complimentary open can.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> My K702s came in.  I'll start comparing them to the Q701s....
> 
> EDIT:  OK, right away I can tell the bass is DEFINITELY different.  Q701s have more bass.  Sounds like a bass boosted K702....


 

 Score one for the graphs!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverick, I know this will sound disappointing, but I ended up going with the Audio GD NFB 5 as my DAC/AMP. It has a lot of power and has a DAC. Assuming I like it enough for the D7000, it will keep me from getting something considerably more expensive, and opening funds for the Q701. 

I don't have golden ears, so assuming it's 'good enough', I'll be happy with it. I'm more interested in headphones anyways.

With the 2 ohm output impedance (perfect for anything above 16 ohms)

3500mW/25 ohm (D7000 + LOTS of powah) :eek:
1800mW/50 ohm
900mW/100 ohm
300mW/300 ohm
150mW/600 ohm (almost twice the power of the E9 at 600ohms).



It's gonna cost me around $400 in total, compared to 2x as much as I was going to spend on the other, less powerful equipment. I know power ain't everything, but it should help with something like the AKGs, or even Orthos (with that power)...


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> maverick, I know this will sound disappointing, but I ended up going with the polarizing Audio GD NFB 5 as my DAC/AMP.


 

 That one isn't too bad.  In that price range the NFB 5 is a lot more excusable given its power and features.  I'd take that one over the Burson just for the power if nothing else.  I can't give HA-160DS a pass like that because of its price and piss poor max power.  Its not what I'd go with myself but its not a $DEITY forsaken waste of money either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess I'll find out hopefully soon enough whether it's worth it or not, though I don't exactly have headphones that take advantage of all that power... I do see some HE-4s on sale for stupid cheap here, and I'm considering it... I'd put the power at over 2+watts for the 38ohm HE-4, which is quite a lot... 

What gets me is that the polarizing NFB 12 also has the same power specs... and I don't know how powerful people here consider it. That is clearly more powerful than anything I've seen in the price range, with the exception of the Lyr...but that thing is scary powerful.... hell, the C-2.2 gives 4.5 watts to a 25ohm load... THAT is crazy.

In any case, I may end up getting the ODAC/C anyways.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I guess I'll find out hopefully soon enough whether it's worth it or not, though I don't exactly have headphones that take advantage of all that power... I do see some HE-4s on sale for stupid cheap here, and I'm considering it... I'd put the power at over 2+watts for the 38ohm HE-4, which is quite a lot...
> What gets me is that the polarizing NFB 12 also has the same power specs... and I don't know how powerful people here consider it. That is clearly more powerful than anything I've seen in the price range, with the exception of the Lyr...but that thing is scary powerful.... hell, the C-2.2 gives 4.5 watts to a 25ohm load... THAT is crazy.
> In any case, I may end up getting the ODAC/C anyways.


 

 If the specs are honest it should be about 2.3 watts into 38 ohms.  Probably even a decent job with the HE-6 too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only thing about the NFB 5 is that people here haven't tried it, probably due to going straight for the NFB10SE. FWIR, Kingwa stated that the NFB 5 is pretty much the same as the NFB10SE in single ended mode (actually more powerful with lower impedance cans, and the same at 300/600ohms). I have no desire to go balanced, so the $170 I saved should be worth it. That and it has a volume knob, as opposed to the the digital buttons on the NFB10SE.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How much different? TRY and explain, fool!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   

 Well, I've only been listening for about 30-45 minutes but I'm having trouble coming up with any reasons why someone would prefer K702s to the Q701s, and several reasons for the opposite. 
   
  I can definitely see how K702 owners would wish for a little fuller sound/more impact in bass and overall sound, and in that respect Q701s truly seem like an upgrade/fix.  If you just don't like the K702 signature _in general_, Q701s won't fix that.  It's essentially the same signature, just tuned to be fuller sounding.  If you wished for more low end, midrange body, and overall fuller/punchier sound....then _yes_ I think the Q's fix some of that. 
   
  When I got the Q701s, the sound I was _expecting_ is the sound these K702s are giving me.  I kept saying how surprised I was that people could call the Q701s thin and bass light.  Hearing the K702s, I _can_ see how those statements would apply.  But having come from the Q701s first, I was really confused 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   

 So, bass and lower mids are different.  More fullness, body, and impact on the Q's.  K702s sound sort of like Q701s being run through some bass/lower mid reducing EQ.
   

 The K702 upper mids sound a little colder.  Q701s upper mids sound a little warmer and more natural. 
   

 The Treble: isolated by itself it its technically similiar, the thinner sound of the K702s make the treble more dominant in the overall  signature.  Q701 treble is technically the same, but it sounds more in line with the rest of the sound with the added weight/fullness from the lower half.  It ends up sounding slightly smoother as a result.  I don't think the K702 has piercing treble, but you get more of that impression (when compared to the Q's) because it sounds a little thinner and colder. 
   

 Soundstage wise, they sound the same so far.  The variation in the signatures can make them sound slightly different, but I have a feeling the imaging is nearly the same.  I haven't tried the K702s for gaming yet, just music, so I will have to report back on this  a little later....
   
   
  If I had K702s and actually knew how the Q's sounded in comparison, I would absolutely go through the trouble of selling the K's and picking up the Q's instead.   They sound like improved/re-tuned/etc. K702s.
   
  Q701's win again!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
_I'll probably make a new review/comparison thread so others can find it.  Not many people have owned both of these at the same time, for good reason, so it will be helpful to others...._


----------



## chicolom

These K702s are pretty fresh BTW.  Only about 10 hours on them.  Some people may cray "burn-in!", but I don't think it's that much of a factor.  My Q701s sounded great out of the box, and I didn't notice much change with burn-in, so I'm tempted to think the same will hold true for these K702...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry Chico. Head-fi states 500 hours of burn in for the AKGs. :rolleyes:

Not kidding, people actually believe that.


----------



## maverickronin

Tyll didn't find too much change over about 125 hours...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry Chico. Head-fi states 500 hours of burn in for the AKGs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Seriously  *sigh*.  I can feel already feel the banhammer coming for "posting K702 impressions without proper burn-in" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I haven't noticed much burn-in with any of my headphones including the Q701s.  It's annoying when people say "headphone X sounded like GARBAGE, out of the box - after X hours of burn-in they COMPLETELY changed.  The difference was "night-and-day"!
   
  And why would a company make a product that needed _500 hours_ warmup before it functioned correctly?!  = \


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Seriously  *sigh*.  I can feel already feel the banhammer coming for "posting K702 impressions without proper burn-in"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Haha I think 98% of the people here might not have ever experienced a headphone that sounded like junk out of the box (and great with burn-in). I'm not so lucky. I've had two new pairs of DJ100's and was able to compare them to well burned in pairs. The differences are really shocking and I think it's due to the titanium driver. I actually once complained that I may have had a defect! Twice! Many Koss headphones are known to need lots of burn-in. I believe the Pro4AAT is one and may explain the muffled sound out of the box. I've been through about 6 pairs of DJ100s and only 2 sounded perfect out of the box. It makes no sense. I know the DJ100's signature inside and out and know when something's a bit "off".
   
  I think out of maybe the 100 pairs of headphones I've tried, only 2-3 models needed burn-in. My rule is that if they sound good out of the box, then burn in is NOT required.
   
  People think it's the end of the world when you suggest burn-in. I mean, is it so difficult for some to shove a headphone into a drawer overnight for a possible FREE improvement? Maybe they're worried about spending 2 cents on all that extra electricity.
   
  I remember when I had my first KRK KNS-8400 it had treble that felt like icicles stabbing me in the ear without burn-in. Went away in about 3 days of burn-in. Luckily none of my new pairs needed any.
   
  I do think it's a bit weird how people always say 100+ hours for EVERY headphone. Each one that actually DID need some only took 3-5 days with 8 hours of burn-in each night while I slept.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> People think it's the end of the world when you suggest burn-in. I mean, is it so difficult for some to shove a headphone into a drawer overnight for a possible FREE improvement? Maybe they're worried about spending 2 cents on all that extra electricity.
> 
> I do think it's a bit weird how people always say 100+ hours for EVERY headphone. Each one that actually DID need some only took 3-5 days with 8 hours of burn-in each night while I slept.


 
   
   
  My problem is when people make statements saying a headphone _requires _500 hours of burn in.  That' just ridiculous.
   
  That's like saying  a car needs 100,000 miles on it before it begins to drive correctly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, if the headphone isn't enjoyable within the first day of use, I won't be waiting around for some fairy to sprinkle miracle dust on them.

The only headphone that changed (literally within 30 minutes) was the first M50s, which had a sharp metallic treble that went away quite noticably... and that was before I even got on Head-fi and knew a damn thing about burn in. I attributed it to it adjusting to actually being used...

A billion cans later, they all sound pretty much the same as the first day I got them.


----------



## tdockweiler

So...I take it you guys don't believe in amp burn in? You didn't know the E5 needs 100 hours of burn-in? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Then there are some who think that an amp's sound quality degrades if you turn it on and off too much. Or won't sound right without warming up first. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Not sure what to think about amp/dac burn in. Or wait...cable burn in! That one's the best.
   
  Thankfully I haven't started believing that USB and HDMI cables make any difference..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, if the headphone isn't enjoyable within the first day of use, I won't be waiting around for some fairy to sprinkle miracle dust on them.


 


  LOL
   
  Haven't you heard of the "Burn-in Fairy"?  You put your headphones under you pillow while it's playing music, and 500 hours later the fairy will come and give you bass response!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Not sure what to think about amp/dac burn in. Or wait...cable burn in! That one's the best.
> 
> Thankfully I haven't started believing that USB and HDMI cables make any difference..


 

 You should read some of these reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
   
  they're funny


----------



## livingplastic

Isn't just an rj45 cable made of gold pressed latinum?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Or won't sound right without warming up first.


 

 Well some amps have parts that can change value with temperature but if an amp doesn't have any tubes, large heat sinks, or a case that gets a lot warmer than ambient then it might just be in your head.


----------



## Phos

I have an NFB-5!  Be aware that I have reason to believe that it isn't a truely transparent amp, but this is based on tests of their discrete op amps and that NwAvGuy says the electrical engineering theory on their site is a bit bananas. I don't hear anything wrong with it, but I felt it relevant to mention. I dunno if it's good or bad that even with sighted listening I couldn't hear any difference between it and my X-fi on audio creation mode with my A900's. Of course, I have heard that the A900's sound basically the same out of most any source.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OOH, interesting!

Phos, what filter do you like best? Also, is the A900 the only can you have? I wouldn't doubt that you can't hear a diff. Those cans are absurdly easy to drive, like the AD700, which tome sounded the same off everything.

You like your NFB5? All that power deserves some power hungry cans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mad lust envy said:


> Well Chico, I hope you're happy... just placed an order for the White Qs... :mad:
> I don't mind the lack of bass or lack of prowess with EDM or hip hop (compared to the OTHER can), as that's what my D7Ks are for. I do however need a mid rich, full sounding, open can for non-bass heavy genres, TV shows, anime, and these seem to fit the bill. I'd have went with the DT880 Pros, but I'm all Beyer'd out, and don't want as sharp a treble for my secondary cans.
> Come on Qs... you better live up to the hype. The K701 had some glaring flaws. Hopefully the warmer, fuller sound will be enough.
> I'd have saved up for the HE500, but I REALLY don't want a heavy pair of cans. The HE-4 was quite heavy, and for the type of relaxed listening, it's not what I'm looking for.





Well, that means that if I do end up enjoying them more than the K701s, they will make my PC360s obsolete, so before I put up a listing for them in the near future (assuming all goes well), I'll let you guys in the US know now, that I'll be selling the PC360 for $120 total to the US only. Perfect condition sonically, the only physical issue being the stupid headband cushion (which for some ungodly reason snagged on something sharp at some point...)









That headband padding damage is just hardened glue... (sorry, stepfather got crazy ideas on how to fix the tear). It does not hamper comfort or anything else. I've been extremely happy with this headset, mic and all. 

if I do get a buyer, I will still put up a for sale listing on head-fi for legit reasons, as well as giving each other feedback. Feedback always helps. I should be at +6 by now but the people I dealt with didn't bother giving me feedback. :rolleyes:


----------



## Eric_C

Re: all the K70x burn-in comments over the last page
  Can I just say how much I appreciate the level-headedness in this thread vs almost any other thread on a similar topic in Head-Fi. You are all full of win.


----------



## nfnity

The Q701 has foam pads behind the Qunicy Jones logo. As far as I know the K701 doesn't have those.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20VRAznJzgw

  That could be a reason for a different frequncy response. Time for K701 mods, I guess.
  Just wanted to ask my question about the DAC qualities of the mixamp again:
  
  Quote: 





nfnity said:


> How's the SQ on the mixamp just as a DAC for music if you bypass dolby headphone and feed it digitally via spdif? Is its DAC comparable with something like the fiio e7? It should at least be better than onboard sound.


----------



## Shogunner

Anyone know what gaming is like with 558's? I'm about to bit the bullet for a pair. I figured it might be a step up from the PC360's since they're basically the 595's. I was going to do the foam removal mod aswell.
   
  I do competitive Dota 2 and Counter-Strike, but I also love playing games like Mount & Blade, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Racing Games, and the lot basically, so I want them to be enjoyable for that aswell.
   
  Edit; Screw it, did it anyways!


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OOH, interesting!
> Phos, what filter do you like best? Also, is the A900 the only can you have? I wouldn't doubt that you can't hear a diff. Those cans are absurdly easy to drive, like the AD700, which tome sounded the same off everything.
> You like your NFB5? All that power deserves some power hungry cans.


 


  I also have the pc360, but they're also easy to drive and I can't connect them anyway because I don't have an adaptor. More recently I got a HE-400, but their left channel went out. They sounded really nice while they were working though. If you already think the HE-4 is heavy, you probably don't want to get the HE-500, it's even heavier. 
   
  I also can't tell the difference between the DAC filter settings. I like it, but I'm looking for a transparent DAC/amp, so I'll probably sell it when the ODAC is ready. Like I said, I can't rreally hear anything wrong, it's mostly a philisophical thing.


----------



## weez82

Just installed the ModMic on my DT-770 Pro-80 and love it. MixAmp + ModMic + headphones of your choosing = gaming nirvana


----------



## livingplastic

Been playing around with the settings in the Asus Xonar DG's Gui. I was toying around with the EQ with my hd555. Pumped up the 30hz to +8 or +10 the 60hz to +6 8khz to +2 or +4 and the 16khz to +8 or +10... Was sounding pretty good. Then I was looking at the Read out it the GraEQ was giving me and remembered when your recording something to never let anything go above +10 Dec. So I was comparing the Sound quality of the medium gain vs the high gain at the same Dec. levels on the sound card.
   
  If you can stand it the high gain set to a volume where every thing tries to get the +10 dec. but can't is really really good sounding. On the medium gain at the same read out volume it's more tolleriable on the ears but just doesn't have that lush kick it has at the high gain or when you turn the volume up to match the high gains real volume.
   
  Then I noticed the Hi-Fi button was'nt pressed so I pressed it and my music suddenly sounded like flat crap... What so I looked at the eq and it set everything back to flat. Turn Hi-Fi Off and my settings came back. I was listening to music like that? I thought to my self. lol


----------



## worx

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> Would a Fiio E7 Work well with an AD700 for gaming?
> 
> 
> I already have a Xonar DG, would I notice much of a difference if I used the E7?
> ...


 
   
  I have this same question.... would the Fiio E7 be an upgrade to the Xonar DG?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





worx said:


> I have this same question.... would the Fiio E7 be an upgrade to the Xonar DG?


 

 As an amp?  Maybe a little bit.
   
  As a DAC?  No.  You'll lose some of your positional audio.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





worx said:


> I have this same question.... would the Fiio E7 be an upgrade to the Xonar DG?


 


  I wouldn't think so the Xonar DG has more than enough power for the 50 ohm hd555. The Ad-700 is only 32 ohm. I think it would be a down grade from the DG.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





nfnity said:


> How's the SQ on the mixamp just as a DAC for music if you bypass dolby headphone and feed it digitally via spdif? Is its DAC comparable with something like the fiio e7? It should at least be better than onboard sound.


 

  
  You mean like for music?  I can't test it as my computer doesn't have spdif/optical out.  You can always get the FiiO D3 for $30.  It takes coax and optical in and goes to a line out.  With the mixamp, it doesn't have a line out, so you're stuck with the amp/headphone out for whatever the DAC gives you.


----------



## nfnity

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You mean like for music?  I can't test it as my computer doesn't have spdif/optical out.  You can always get the FiiO D3 for $30.  It takes coax and optical in and goes to a line out.  With the mixamp, it doesn't have a line out, so you're stuck with the amp/headphone out for whatever the DAC gives you.


 


  but the question remains: does the D3 or any other comparably cheap DAC have noticeably better SQ than the mixamp. Would I really benefit from the d3+amp combo compared to the double amped mixamp? with 320kb mp3s that is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're doing it wrong if you're using the Mixamp as a music amp. It should ONLY be used for gaming and movies. The D3, E7 and any decent music dac will outperform the Mixamp in every way. The ONLY reason to use the Mixamp is for virtual surround and voice mixing...that's it.

Only double amp with the Mixamp if you have a hard to drive headphone, NO OTHER REASON.

Oh yes, the Mixamp 5.8 has an optical line out, so if the music dac you want to use has an optical input, you CAN use both the Mixamp and your music DAC without issues.

A good example of use is:

Source ---> Optical ---> Mixamp 5.8 --->. headphone out ---> Amp (input 1). This is for gaming with hard to drive headphones.

and

Source ---> Optical ---> Mixamp 5.8 ---> optical out ---> music dac ---> Amp (input 2). This is for music as it bypasses the Mixamp. 

This is assuming you have an amp with two inputs. Not sure if the newer Mixamp 5.8 leaves the optical out on when the Mixamp is off, but if it's anything like mine, the Mixamp must be on in order for the optical out to work (a non-issue as the Mixamp doesn't use much power, I just leave it on if I feel I'm gonna use it soon).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna have to add a link to OC Remix on my first post and here.

OC Remix is a website where video game remixes are submitted. Before you judge video game music, you must know, the remixers here tend to master their tracks BETTER than typical lables. They take special care in their music.

http://ocremix.org/

They have a whole bunch of FREE remix albums which also have FLAC of their tracks...

http://ocremix.org/albums/

Lots of awesome orchestra, rock, EDM, you name it. If you have a favorite game, chances are, there's plenty of remixes for the music.

I'm surprised some of you don't know of OCRemix's existence. If you're new to it, prepare to spend days (maybe weeks) of sifting through all that godly music.

The site's been around for a LOOOONG time, and obviously music has evolved. Unless you know what to look for, some of the older music may be lacking in quality compared to the new ones, but there is certainly older remixes that would blow the new stuff away.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm gonna have to add a link to OC Remix on my first post and here.
> OC Remix is a website where video game remixes are submitted. Before you judge video game music, you must know, the remixers here tend to master their tracks BETTER than typical lables. They take special care in their music.
> http://ocremix.org/
> They have a whole bunch of FREE remix albums which also have FLAC of their tracks...
> ...


 

 You really cannot go wrong with ANYTHING by bLiNd, Zircon, BigGiantCircles, PrototypeRaptor, Disco Dan, Danimal Cannon, Sixto Sounds, virt, Shnabubula, halc, or Benjamin Briggs. Not to mention hundreds more I'm neglecting, but those are the guys off the top of my head who I've really gone out of my way to find their complete works. And I'm pretty sure all the guys I've listed above have released their own non-OCR albums as well. Just as a quick sample of some very recent work by one of the guys listed above demonstrating absolutely epic skills, check out this hour long set by PrototypeRaptor - http://soundcloud.com/prototyperaptor/prototyperaptor-promo-mix-jan


----------



## nfnity

mad lust envy said:


> You're doing it wrong if you're using the Mixamp as a music amp. It should ONLY be used for gaming and movies. The D3, E7 and any decent music dac will outperform the Mixamp in every way. The ONLY reason to use the Mixamp is for virtual surround and voice mixing...that's it.
> Only double amp with the Mixamp if you have a hard to drive headphone, NO OTHER REASON.
> Oh yes, the Mixamp 5.8 has an optical line out, so if the music dac you want to use has an optical input, you CAN use both the Mixamp and your music DAC without issues.
> A good example of use is:
> ...




Ok, so even cheap DACs are better than the mixamp. What about the average onboard headphone out double amped? I have to drive q701. I bought them for gaming, that's why I don't have a good DAC to go with it. I just want to know how I should hook up the amp if I want to listen to some streamed music for once in a while, or when I watch shows in stereo. Onboard vs. Mixamp. Both have to be double amped for the akgs.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





nfnity said:


> Ok, so even cheap DACs are better than the mixamp. What about the average onboard headphone out double amped? I have to drive q701. I bought them for gaming, that's why I don't have a good DAC to go with it. I just want to know how I should hook up the amp if I want to listen to some streamed music for once in a while, or when I watch shows in stereo. Onboard vs. Mixamp. Both have to be double amped for the akgs.


 


  Streamed music--so, low bitrate? And some TV shows?
  Just run the 701 out of the onboard HP out and see how that is. In this case, you really only need to be concerned about loudness; leave the tricky/elusive quality of "well driven headphones" to serious music (and maybe movie) listening.


----------



## Hailin

I got my DT990pros. I whipped them out of the box at 5pm and I haven't taken them off my head since. Plus the smile on my face is not going away. I guess I am a Beyer guy. I love them, they fix all the problems I had with the Sen HD598. They don't have the soundstage of the HD598's but everything else feels so amazing. I haven't gamed with them yet but I am dying to try them.
  That binaural clip that you posted MLE actually made me sick to my stomach from 0:35 to 0:41 not to sure why? Never happened on any of my other headphones. I need to find some mid heavy songs because that is where people say they lack.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm gonna have to add a link to OC Remix on my first post and here.
> OC Remix is a website where video game remixes are submitted. Before you judge video game music, you must know, the remixers here tend to master their tracks BETTER than typical lables. They take special care in their music.
> http://ocremix.org/
> They have a whole bunch of FREE remix albums which also have FLAC of their tracks...
> ...


 


  http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01914/ ... Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What, you like it? Lol.

I'll be hopefully doing a writeup on the Q701s for gaming. Nothing fancy like Chico's writeup, but the usual fun/competitive scores, and whatnot. I'll try and see if I can bring up some comparisons with the K701, but don't hold your breath.... its been a good while since I've heard them.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're doing it wrong if you're using the Mixamp as a music amp.* It should ONLY be used for gaming and movies.* The D3, E7 and any decent music dac will outperform the Mixamp in every way. The ONLY reason to use the Mixamp is for virtual surround and voice mixing...that's it.
> 
> Only double amp with the Mixamp if you have a hard to drive headphone, NO OTHER REASON.


 
   
  Quoted for truth


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What, you like it? Lol.
> I'll be hopefully doing a writeup on the Q701s for gaming. Nothing fancy like Chico's writeup, but the usual fun/competitive scores, and whatnot. I'll try and see if I can bring up some comparisons with the K701, but don't hold your breath.... its been a good while since I've heard them.


 

  
  I need to grab some more of that OCremix.  I have the FFVII album, but that's it...
   
  I hope these K702s I have here are representative of the rest of the K70x.  I don't see why they wouldn't be.  They're serial number is over 20,000 so they're pretty recent (My Q's are only 4165). 
  I'm either claiming that the Q's are in fact a different beast from the K's, or I've just proven how ridiculous the burn-in effect is  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   I'm leaning towards the former.  _If_ my Q701s changed during burn-in, it was minor/insignificant.  They certainly didn't sound thin out of the box like these K702.
   
   
  I'm still debating whether I should bother with a short Q701 vs K702 writeup thread, or if people will just condemn it when I mention that the K702s don't have their burn-in certificate yet


----------



## Method

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I got my DT990pros. I whipped them out of the box at 5pm and I haven't taken them off my head since. Plus the smile on my face is not going away. I guess I am a Beyer guy. I love them, they fix all the problems I had with the Sen HD598. They don't have the soundstage of the HD598's but everything else feels so amazing. I haven't gamed with them yet but I am dying to try them.
> That binaural clip that you posted MLE actually made me sick to my stomach from 0:35 to 0:41 not to sure why? Never happened on any of my other headphones. I need to find some mid heavy songs because that is where people say they lack.


 

  
  Were the HD598's comfort problems more of an issue than their sound for you? I'm interested in the HD598 but somewhat worried they might be too boring for me.


----------



## Mysterious

Would you recommend any of the following for BOTH music and gaming
  Audio Technica M50
  Koss Pro DJ100
  Creative Aurvana Live
   
  Any other headphones recommendations that do both music and gaming would be appreciated as i have money to only get one headphone 
   
  Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the HD598 quite boring...though I bet with the right genres, they'd be stellar.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Would you recommend any of the following for BOTH music and gaming
> Audio Technica M50
> Koss Pro DJ100
> Creative Aurvana Live
> ...


 

  
  I think it depends on what your gaming and music setups are like. If you're more serious about one or the other, than that's the one that takes priority.
   
  So, for e.g. are you gaming with onboard audio, in stereo? Then music's a priority.
  Do you game or listen to music on the go? Then you need closed headphones.


----------



## Phos

Funny thing, a while back I was thinking about how it would be possible to record audio such that it could be put through an HRTF algorithm after the fact, and I thought that four microphones in a tetrahedral layout would provide all the information required for this, but I had no idea how it could be utilized.  Well, guess what, it's called an Ambisonic soundfield and guess what the microphone used to record it looks like.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

M50? Hell no. Not for gaming. Very small soundstage. I would recommend the CAL. Enjoy them for all purposes.

My Q701s are being delivered a day early. I should have them today.


----------



## Danny0990

Geeze, listened to my first movie off a dvd from redbox last night with new setup. I'm blown away. After last night, I'm going to be a regular redbox customer. I can only imagine how good they'll sound with the lyr haha.


----------



## rabidgamer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> M50? Hell no. Not for gaming. Very small soundstage. I would recommend the CAL. Enjoy them for all purposes.
> My Q701s are being delivered a day early. I should have them today.


 

 Can't wait to hear your impressions, if my Pro 900s don't work out for gaming the Q701s will be my next step.
   
  I should hopefully have my new headphones today too...


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I think it depends on what your gaming and music setups are like. If you're more serious about one or the other, than that's the one that takes priority.
> 
> So, for e.g. are you gaming with onboard audio, in stereo? Then music's a priority.
> Do you game or listen to music on the go? Then you need closed headphones.


 
   

 Using onboard radio 
 nothing special 
 just need something that can be used as both but priority is for music as will be leaving soon for university so closed headphones are preferred
  
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> M50? Hell no. Not for gaming. Very small soundstage. I would recommend the CAL. Enjoy them for all purposes.
> My Q701s are being delivered a day early. I should have them today.


 
  Any Headphones that are good for gaming and provide the listening experience of the m50's but the listening to music will be priority with them


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01914/ ... Thank you


 

 More BGC suggestions for you - http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02036/ and http://www.biggiantcircles.com/impostor-nostalgia/
   
  And because my electro-house example posted earlier was probably not everyone's cup of tea, have some Shnabubula. This one was featured on IGN - http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02278/


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My Q701s are being delivered a day early. I should have them today.


 


  That was fast! 
   
  I think I've exhausted all headphone possibilities in this price bracket, and the Q701s have officially "won" for me.  My requirements are open + velour + soundstage.  The only ones I haven't tried are the HD600s, but I'm not sure Id like them...maybe they'd be alright for instrumental music...
   
  I might look into that ODA/ODAC thing coming later...


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





method said:


> Were the HD598's comfort problems more of an issue than their sound for you? I'm interested in the HD598 but somewhat worried they might be too boring for me.


 

 The comfort for me of the HD598s got better and better as I wore them. I was just not used to the shape of the earpads and where it clamped.
  I found the sound on bass heavy tracks to be a tad boring. On everything else they were fine.
  The soundstage is just awesome too on the 598s. Main reason I am struggling on whether to keep them or not is that wonderful soundstage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First impression for music.... the Q701 IS different from the K701. The difference is obvious. There is warmth here that I never really got from the K701. People tended to argue with me about the K701 not being bright or treble heavy, which I will fight about until the end of time. If they were talking about the Q701 however, I'd agree with them. It's different, and more pleasing. Sub bass is definitely not a strong suit, but it does have a pretty healthy dose of mid bass... so it's quite complimentary to the D7000.

Soundstage is definitely huge, which is a plus.

Bass has an incredibly quick decay, which is good in that bass will never smother the mids ever, but bad because there's not enough oomph in them to give a wow factor. 

Would these replace the DT990? For me? Not a chance. I can already tell they won't be anywhere near as 'fun', but these are definitely the better alternative as far as well balanced all rounder, more than the HD598 (which I find boring). These have SOME fun. The vocals are damn good too. 

I'd still recommend the DT880s over these for music, but we'll have to see for gaming (I'm sure the Q701 will be better, assuming positioning is still as good as the K701, where the DT880 lacks a bit in).

So far so good. They thoroughly spank the PC360 for music, lol. I'm probably not going to sell my PC360, if only because I can always use them whenever game chat is a must. it's easier to just use them in a pinch, instead of attaching, detaching a mod mic on these. However, the Q701 will definitely get more use, as I almost never chat anyways.

One thing, if you have a HUGE head, the Q701 may not have enough extension. I have to fully extend them, which was only ever an issue with me with the Koss UR 40 (not enough extension.... thing was made for midgets).

My test for bass....

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaHuYxCaH3c[/VIDEO]


The Q701 does the mid bass well enough, but sub bass just dissipates a bit too quickly, where they would keep going on the 990s and D7000.


----------



## Phos

This talk about the mod mic is abruptly giving me ideas on integrating a mic into my HE-400's...  Rather than sticking it to the side, I could make a custom cable where the mod mic is braided into the left channel cable as part of a braided cable. 
   
  And by the way, the HE-400 is absurdly good with that binaural recording you linked several pages back. So far it seems to beat the AD700 in that regard in terms of resving directional cues. Ad700 stage might be bigger though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yes, the Q701 is considerably easier to listen to than any of the main Beyers. The treble is non-fatiguing, but still very clear. 

Assuming they work well for gaming, I'm keeping these. They are better than the K701, without question. Time for some BLOPS. 

I like them for music, which is a LOT more than I can say for the K701 or HD598. They really do sound like an EQ-ed K701. Just wanna mention that I loved the K701 when I EQ-ed them with the Fiio E5 or the E7, though amping wasn't ideal on either. I'd say these are as if the K701 was on level 1 EQ on the E7. Speaking of, the Q701 on the E7 with EQ1 gives it a healthy dose of bass (subtle but noticeable), and makes them sound even more fun. Too bad I won't be using them with the E7 like that.

Quick dirty shoot:





Chico, thanks for the recommendation. I am really liking the Q701s. Very, VERY complimentary to the D7000. 

I know I always say that I'm not giving up certain headphones (DT990s), but these actually have a place with me, as they don't fight for the same genres with the D7K.

The ONLY way I'd give them up is for some T1s, which quite frankly, can't afford right now.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That was fast!
> 
> I think I've exhausted all headphone possibilities in this price bracket, and the Q701s have officially "won" for me.  My requirements are open + velour + soundstage.  The only ones I haven't tried are the HD600s, but I'm not sure Id like them...maybe they'd be alright for instrumental music...
> 
> I might look into that ODA/ODAC thing coming later...


 
   
  You should try the K601. It's a different flavor of the AKG Q701, but a lot warmer. Somewhere in between the K702 and HD-600. It's crazy that they're often found now for $100-$150 if you get lucky!
  If anyone on earth feels the Q701 has too much treble, the K601 might be the one for them. I do think the K601 does have more forward mids than the Q701. Definitely more upper mids.
   
  I'd suggest the 598 over the HD-600. At one time I had the HD-600, HD-650 and 598 and kept the 598. I actually found it was the one I liked listening to the most due to it's huge soundstage and forward mids. HD-600 was especially good for gaming and movies, but I liked it less for music. The 598 also always felt like it had more treble than the HD-600/650 by far.
   
  I think the K601 is also a tiny bit more forgiving than the Q701. Of course on some recordings the more forward mids can be an issue on the K601. This is rare though. The K601's bass might be a little better than the Q701, but I haven't compared them. I think it's just better sub-bass. Very tiny differences.
   
  You might like the KRK KNS-8400 too. I've found it to sound similar to a closed Q701 somewhat. Despite being closed, the HRT benefits it a lot. As far as I'm concerned, the 8400 and the Q701 are tied for Skyrim. Only advantage the Q701 has is soundstage size. The KRK is even less forgiving than the Q701 and makes so much of my music sound like garbage.
   
  MLE - I'm glad you like the Q701 (so far). I'm surprised you felt it was warm. I think it is compared to my old K701 for sure and that's one reason I like it. Not as warm as my K601 or HD-598, but pretty close. Surprised you found the HD-598 boring for music. It's mids are very engaging for me, yet at the same time I sometimes switch to the HD-598 when I want to relax and not be bombarded by crappy music that's too bright/harsh. My HD-598 takes the edge off of bad music SLIGHTLY. The HD-600 despite the extra bass (I believe) puts me to sleep. It's mids just don't do much for me.
   
  The Q701 is even better when paired up with a slightly warm amp/dac. Even then, it's still not like the K601. I have my doubts there's a better budget DAC than the HRT MSII under $150 for the Q701.
   
  Wish I could convince more gamers to try the K601, but never had any luck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I think if someone compared the K601 to the Q701 side by side for a half hour, they'd think the K601 is less detailed, but it's not too far off I think. I think the K601 also has better imaging than the Q701. I haven't verified this, but it has the HD-598 beat.
   
  Now that I think of it, I haven't tried the K601 for Skyrim yet. Guess I'll do this tonight..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't actually find it warm, per se. Warm*ER* than the K701, which I felt was on the bright side of neutral. I actually feel the Q701 to have a neutral sound signature. Not warm, not bright, just right.

And btw, just played some BLOPS with it, I can wholeheartedly recommend these for gaming. They even have bass impact, similar to the DT880s for gaming, maybe just a little less bass presence.

If I were to score them right now:

Fun: 7/10 (not enough sub bass to truly make them on the level of the DT880s fun wise, but close)
Competitive: 9/10 (need more testing, but everything seems to be spot on. This may change to a higher score, but not lower.)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh yes, the Q701 is considerably easier to listen to than any of the main Beyers. The treble is non-fatiguing, but still very clear.
> Assuming they work well for gaming, I'm keeping these. They are better than the K701, without question.
> I like them for music, which is a LOT more than I can say for the K701 or HD598.
> Chico, thanks for the recommendation. I am really liking the Q701s. Very, VERY complimentary to the D7000.
> ...


 

  
  I'm glad you like them!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  And glad to see you echo my impressions as well.  They're sound very much like improved K70x - which by definition makes them good for gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  The difference between the K70x and Q701 is obvious when comparing directly - don't try and argue it's placebo.  I don't see any reason to NOT choose the Q's over the K's (unless your just being stubborn about the whole Quincy Jones "rebranding" thing, in which case - please get over it).
   
  I think they're a really solid choice for _soundstage lovers _and gamers looking for an open, well-balanced, natural sounding can.  If you like acoustic based music (jazz, classical, etc.) they will do great with those genres as well.  Pretty darn good for some electronic too.  I can't see it's sound signature bothering anyone, it just really non-fatiguing.  There are "funner" sounding cans, but to me they sound unnatural for acoustic music - less of an issue with gaming though.  I still say the Q701s are the most natural sounding cans I've heard - meaning the timbre of instruments sounds closest to their real life counterparts.
   
  The only way I'd ever consider selling mine is for another pair, or if I get a flagship that makes them redundant:  such as T1s,  HD700/800, etc - which won't happen for a looonng time...
   
  MLE - methinks you should probably add them to the front page  *wink, nudge*  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *tdockweiler* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> You should try the K601. It's a different flavor of the AKG Q701, but a lot warmer.
> ...


----------



## chicolom

LOL at these pad-rolled K601


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If I were to score them right now:
> Fun: 7/10 (not enough sub bass to truly make them on the level of the DT880s fun wise, but close)
> Competitive: 9/10 (need more testing, but everything seems to be spot on. This may change to a higher score, but not lower.)


 

  
  I find the Q701 more fun than PC360s (which you also gave a 7), as they have a good deal more bass and overall body 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Competitive I'd say 9 is about right.  Still can't match the holographic imaging of the AD700s.  The PC360 still remains _very good_ at imaging as well. I'd gladly trade that last point for the Q701s signature.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





phos said:


> This talk about the mod mic is abruptly giving me ideas on integrating a mic into my HE-400's...  Rather than sticking it to the side, I could make a custom cable where the mod mic is braided into the left channel cable as part of a braided cable.


 
   
  The appeal of the mod mic over a more integrated mic is that it pops off when not in use - which is the majority of the time.  I guess if you had two sets of cables this would be fine, otherwise you'd just have a mic dangling near your left earcup all the time.


----------



## zhengwy

this is a long list thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I find the Q701 more fun than PC360s (which you also gave a 7), as they have a good deal more bass and overall body
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I told you not to compare scores, fool! 

Fine, I'd give them a 7.5 for fun, better than PC360 (7), not as good as the 880 (8).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I told you not to compare scores, fool!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I want to know exactly what audio measurement equipment you used for the scores, it's specifications and what it's tolerance is.  I also hope you didn't use any sighted testing for your scores, otherwise they're invalid.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a studio that I share with the makers of BEATS AUDIO. The strict and controlled testing was done with various age groups, and remarkably, 100% of the people tested all came out saying that the Q701 deserves a 7.5. Naturally, having not heard the Q701 myself, I posted the scores based off the average score of said age groups.


----------



## livingplastic

Well I got my Stax gamma's in and hooked up to my pioneer vsx-3300. It's almost been .5 hours listening so far. So the charge should almost be complete. So far they seem really good. Sometimes they wow me. I'm listening to http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02278/ at the moment. I'm checking to see If i heard a discharge or if someone stepped on a piece of paper during the recording. IDK but something happened somewhere and it startled me good. "must have been a discharge or something happend IRL and I heard it"
   
  The cable would be a HUGE issue but I'm using a headphone rack kidda thing and has nice smooth hooks so It's holding the cord off my arm and I can sit here and not be bothered by or worried with the cord.
   
  I don't know if the vsx-3300 is the right power amplifier to use but they look real good next to each other. I would use My STA-2000 but the pots and switches needs cleaned before I hook it up to the stax.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have a studio that I share with the makers of BEATS AUDIO. The strict and controlled testing was done with various age groups, and remarkably, 100% of the people tested all came out saying that the Q701 deserves a 7.5. Naturally, having not heard the Q701 myself, I posted the scores based off the average score of said age groups.


 


  LOL.... Gad Daaam Beets!!!  They all sound like soot and poo! Dirty Rotten Beets, might as well stuff dirt in my ears.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The appeal of the mod mic over a more integrated mic is that it pops off when not in use - which is the majority of the time.  I guess if you had two sets of cables this would be fine, otherwise you'd just have a mic dangling near your left earcup all the time.


 


  Yeah it would be a second cable, the benefit being that I just have a single (dual entry) cable instead of two wires, unless you know of a better mic for this application, though I suspect the flexibility/posablility of the mod mic would be useful here.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have a studio that I share with the makers of BEATS AUDIO. The strict and controlled testing was done with various age groups, and remarkably, 100% of the people tested all came out saying that the Q701 deserves a 7.5. Naturally, having not heard the Q701 myself, I posted the scores based off the average score of said age groups.


 


  I hope Quincy Jones himself authorized and oversaw the testing.  He personally hand builds each of his headphones (even wrapping the voice coils hundreds of times by hand on each driver).  He also tunes them with a tuning fork forged from a diamond/adamantium alloy to ensure the purest frequency response free of adulteration and corruption.
   
  Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> LOL.... Gad Daaam Beets!!!  They all sound like soot and poo! Dirty Rotten Beets, might as well stuff dirt in my ears.


 


 Last time I checked, _Dr. _Dre was a fully licensed audiophile and prescriber of prescription strength audio products.  Are you?  I don't think so.....
   
  His headphones are "High Hefintion...With precision-engineered, advanced speaker design".
  
  He has a reputation to uphold among his fellow audiophiles, and I _seriously doubt _he would sell overpriced mediocre headphones..........seriously doubt it.....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, this might be a silly question, but does the Q701 and K702 have the same exact connection for the removeable cable? I might ask SWZ to make me one of his kick ass micmods. I'd probably just ship him the 20 footer for him to make a mic mod on one, and maybe then a balanced...maybe.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, this might be a silly question, but does the Q701 and K702 have the same exact connection for the removeable cable? I might ask SWZ to make me one of his kick ass micmods. I'd probably just ship him the 20 footer for him to make a mic mod on one, and maybe then a balanced...maybe.


 

  
  Ya, Identical (min-xlr).  They cables, apart from color, appear identical too.  When I got them I swapped their cables to make sure they weren't affecting the sound, but they don't. 
   
  Wouldn't you still have a mic stuck on your headphones that way?  Or am I missing something....
   
  I saw SWZ sold his K702 a week or two ago...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agh, I dunno, I think I prefer just keeping the PC360, after all.

Wish someone would swapme their black K702 cable for my green one. The green is a bit out of place with the white and black...

I could get a fancy braided cable, but then that's just driving up the cost which is unnecessary.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Agh, I dunno, I think I prefer just keeping the PC360, after all.
> 
> *Why not get a modmic?  **You can just store it in a box near you xbox then whip it out if needed.*  *That pic of your pc360 headband didn't look that bad....*
> 
> ...


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Agh, I dunno, I think I prefer just keeping the PC360, after all.
> Wish someone would swapme their black K702 cable for my green one. The green is a bit out of place with the white and black...
> I could get a fancy braided cable, but then that's just driving up the cost which is unnecessary.


 

 Well yeah it's expensive if you buy them from ALO or the like, but I spent like $2 on a neutrik plug, 10 dollars on some silver plated copper wire, and then I spent $20 on cotton tubing to monosleeve it (each wire gets it's own tube, or at least that's the plan), and honestly I could have had that price lower if I had just shopped around for 40 odd feet of bulk shoelace off ebay.  I guess the guys at ALO audio just place a huge value on their man hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Problem is, I'm not good with my hands and the like.

Both my Q's cables are green. 

BTW, I added Moon opamps for my NFB 5, which will give it a tubelike sound, which should be nice for the Qs.


----------



## Mysterious

Probably gonna get the M50's now
 just wondering if they can be run efficiently from mobile/portable source ( SGS2/iPod Touch in my case ) without an amp ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

M50s are hella easy to drive. Not much to gain from amping.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> M50s are hella easy to drive. Not much to gain from amping.


 


  Good i don't have the money left to buy an amp
 Thank you


----------



## obazavil

@chicolom
   
  Do you have a pics of Q701 with the modmic?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> @chicolom
> 
> Do you have a pics of Q701 with the modmic?


 


  I can take some tonight...
  There's a pic of just the base attached in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/212768/pics-of-headphones-read-rules/2040


----------



## Danny0990

Lame. My a40's leak way too badly for me to use them in public. Are the q701's easy to drive?
  I may consider sampling them sometime this month.


----------



## suitheist

I still cant decide which full size headphone im going for. So, as a stop gap, I bought the KSC75s on Mad Lust's recommendation.
   
  I'm kind of suprised, but they really are good. Very nice in DH; accurate, spacious, seem to put out a fair amount of bass. In Dead Space the ambient sounds have gone from unnerving, to pretty damn disturbing... 
   
  +1 for the KSC75 as budget gaming champion.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





danny0990 said:


> Lame. My a40's leak way too badly for me to use them in public. *Are the q701's easy to drive?*
> I may consider sampling them sometime this month.


 


  Not really.  And they leak still.  Not as bad as AD700 and PC360, but still noticeable.
   
  So, not good for public listening =\


----------



## rabidgamer

Well, I got my Ultrasone Pro 900s today and after some gaming on the Syndicate demo + a BF3 single player mission, got a feeling I'll be happy with these.
   
  They are closed but don't clamp enough that I can barely hear my own voice when talking, important that I ain't shouting down the mic lol, plus they are very comfy.
   
  The bass on these things is just unreal... I have no doubt in my mind that it will drown out sounds when gaming online etc but it sounds so good that I don't even care lol.
   
  Can't go into much more detail as I'm not really good with all the 'terms' etc but I'm really happy, they have a good soundstage + great imaging/directionality (? ) and I had no trouble pin pointing sounds.
   
  Only issue is a slight hiss but I'm guessing that's probably always been there, just with open headphones it'd be harder to notice?
   
  Anyway yeah... very happy. Can't wait to try out Dead Space 2 later.


----------



## DCB305

Anybody try/ or has the Ultrasone pro2900. If so I am curious how they do for gaming.


----------



## Rebel975

I had the PRO 2900's before my HE-500's. They were pretty awesome for gaming. Very comfortable. What they had over the HE-500? Sound stage. HE-500 wins in base extension/impact and overall neutrality.


----------



## DCB305

which did you prefer, I was also looking into the he 500.


----------



## Rebel975

Much prefer the HE-500. It has a much smoother frequency response and gives you sub bass that the PRO 2900's simply can't. The HE-500's aren't exactly bass monsters, but when a source demands bass it will give it to you. Example: the sound when you first start up Skyrim. It sounds awesome on the HE-500. 

Get the HE-500 if you want a smoother FR and better extension. Get the PRO 2900 if you want a better soundstage. IMO, the HE-500's are better in every way except for soundstage size. The HE-500's are still positionally accurate, they just can't place sounds as far away as the 2900's could.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> @chicolom
> 
> Do you have a pics of Q701 with the modmic?


 
   
  There's not much to see...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The bumps on the Q's.... I have a very sore spot on the top of my head.... 

This is gonna take some time to get used to again.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The bumps on the Q's.... I have a very sore spot on the top of my head....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Just pad them.  Don't get used to it.
   
  It's worth adding a $2 pad to fix the comfort on my $250 headphones.  You can see my padding on the previous page's pic.
   
  I never have to worry about those bumps again


----------



## chicolom

Q701 vs K702 thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/594927/akg-q701-vs-akg-k702-comparison-review
   
  There's nothing new to read, for people who already read my impressions from this thread.  I just wanted to put it down in a new thread so people can search and find it...


----------



## TNDude84

Has anyone tried dolby headphone with the ath-pro700mk2? It's supposed to have a lot better imaging than the m50.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tndude84 said:


> Has anyone tried dolby headphone with the ath-pro700mk2? It's supposed to have a lot better imaging than the m50.


 


  I thought they were supposed to be bass monsters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ....


----------



## TNDude84

They are bass monsters but the mids and treble are still clear especially with the m50 pads. People have said they work very well with movies. I figured they might be a good gaming headphone that would let you feel every explosion but you could still tell where your enemies are at.
   
  Also has anyone tried the corsair vegeance 1300 with dolby headphone? They are only $80 on newegg and they have a lot of good reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, I can't see how the extra padding wouldwork for me, because I already have to fully extend the Qs to fit my long head. Thats probably why I get so much pressure from the headband.

Not enough to return them though. The Qs have a sound that I wish the PC360 had. The PC360 sounds thin and boring in comparison.

Apparently my Audio GD stuff was shipped today... can't wait. 

I also pre-ordered the PS Vita with an 8gb card, Uncharted, and Ridge Racer. Oh, my wallet...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I can't see how the extra padding wouldwork for me, because I already have to fully extend the Qs to fit my long head. Thats probably why I get so much pressure from the headband.
> 
> Not enough to return them though. The Qs have a sound that I wish the PC360 had. The PC360 sounds thin and boring in comparison.


 

 Oh that's right.  I forgot.  Your a freak.
   
  =\ 
   
  Hmm... wonder what else you can do...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It was the same with the K701, but I got used to them and they became one of the most comfy headphones I ever wore. 

Just takes time. I didn't have much time to use them other than the first day.

I did use them a few hours ago while grinding on FFXIII-2. They put a smile to my face, with how clean their sound is. They are just dreamy to use. Not going to win any awards with their lack of sub bass, but everything else (including mid bass) is right where I'd want it to be with any headphones.

Its too bad people think they are the same as the K701. They most certainly are not.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Its too bad people think they are the same as the K701. They most certainly are not.


 

 You lie! It's just variations between pairs or..placebo. Same driver = same sound.
  Sorry, I'm kidding. You don't know how many times I've heard this. So tired of it!
  I love my Q701 and one of those who found it to be a nice improvement over the K702.
   
  I have no luck at all. Never ever had issues with the Q701 or K702 bumps, but yet I can't use the DT-880 AT ALL due to the design. I bet there's only 2 people on earth who can't wear the DT-880 comfortably. Sometimes I wish it had the design of the DT-770 Pro 80. I could wear that for 24 hours straight.
   
  BTW the K601 has no bumps at all. If you can ever score one for under $100 it's worth a try. I saw one on Amazon the other day for $100 and couldn't believe it! Just imagine a Q701 that's warmer with more sub-bass (like 2-3% more and more rolled off treble and more forward mids. I think the K601 has the flattest graph I've ever seen, yet it doesn't sound that way. Not sure how it's graph compares to that of the Q701.
   
  I've said it before, but K601 reminds me of a mix of an HD-600 and maybe a K702. Weird, I know.. I really need to do a Q701 vs K601 review. K601 definitely doesn't have the detail of the Q701 though. Little better than the HD-600 at least.
   
  I love posting this graph:


----------



## Phos

I get the impression that you could get a little bit more length out of the headband by reducing the curvature of the brushed aluminum bits.  I can't find as large an image as I'd like but it almost looks like the bumps are stuck onto the surface?  If that's the case you might be able to just slice them off.  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Problem is, I'm not good with my hands and the like.
> Both my Q's cables are green.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It uses one of these, right?  Just three wires I take it?  I'm not quite ready to quote a price, but I suspect I will be soon if you're interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I remember someone modding the 601 headband to the 701/2. The person said it wasn't all that easy to do, FWIR.

I'm actually someone who doesn't find the Premium Beyers all that comfortable. The pads are heavenly, but the design and fit... didn't feel right. The Pros are much better, IMHO. That clamp just feels more natural. But then it starts hurting my jaw. Aw well.

But no more halfway cans. I think I'll put up the PC360 for sale soon, no reason to have so many cans.

Is it weird that I that I think I'll be using the Qs a lot more than the Denons? Something about open+velours that just makes me naturally reach for the Qs. 

Why the hell do people on head-fi insist on leather? IF the HE-400 was sold with velours, I'd have bought them. But NOOOOO, they just had to go with the HOT sweaty stuff. Yes, I know the pads can be rolled with HE500 pads, but the sound changes. I'm a stock person.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

phos said:


> I get the impression that you could get a little bit more length out of the headband by reducing the curvature of the brushed aluminum bits.  I can't find as large an image as I'd like but it almost looks like the bumps are stuck onto the surface?  If that's the case you might be able to just slice them off.
> 
> It uses one of these, right?  Just three wires I take it?  I'm not quite ready to quote a price, but I suspect I will be soon if you're interested.




Yeah, that's the one. What, you'll make me a nice pretty cable?  But honestly, I wouldn't buy a cable for them unless I was going balanced, which I don't see myself doing anytime soon.

And yes, why the hell did I not consider bending the wires? That should definitely help with the extension. I'll try it when I get home.


----------



## Phos

We'll see how nice a cable I can make when my cotton tubing arrives.  I think it might be caught up in customs or something, it's coming from Partsconnexion, which is in Canada.
   
  For bending those bits, probably just some cardboard to preserve the finish and pliers.  
   
  I don't actually find my A900's with the W5000 pads to be very sweaty, for real deal leather seems to handle the heat better.  Supposedly you can actually put some variety of AKG pads onto the HE-400s as well.  
   
  I have been curious if the DT 770 velours would keep the HE-400's stock sound the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't find the DT770 pads too comfortable. Certainly a far cry from the 880/990 pads. As far as pleather/leather, only the M50s and CALs have impressed me with their comfort.

The secret is to have a small amount of contact. The problems with stuff like the Denons is that they rest on too much skin. The Sony XBs are praised for comfort. I'd call them torture devices once the heat builds up (which is very quickly).


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> I have no luck at all. Never ever had issues with the Q701 or K702 bumps, but yet I can't use the DT-880 AT ALL due to the design. I bet there's only 2 people on earth who can't wear the DT-880 comfortably. Sometimes I wish it had the design of the DT-770 Pro 80. I could wear that for 24 hours straight.


 

  
  What's the difference in design between a DT 770 and DT 880? I thought that it was just down to a difference in earpad materials.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Premium Beyers feel different on the head than the Pros. I think the loose fit on the Premiums take away from the comfort. The Pros don't even clamp that hard, and feel secure.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> What's the difference in design between a DT 770 and DT 880? I thought that it was just down to a difference in earpad materials.


 

 The DT-880 Pro and Premium have VERY shallow cups. I THINK think this is the problem for me. What makes no sense is that I need to nearly fully expand the DT-880 just to get them to fit right. I don't even have some huge head.
   
  The DT-770 Pro had much deeper cups and my ears didn't touch the foam in front of the driver and I felt like I had more room. Somehow the pads felt larger, but this would be impossible. It also was a combination of the deeper pads and the design.
   
  I even tried the DT-990 Pro to see if those did the trick, but they're not any better.
   
  I think if I got the very old '05 version, they might be similar to the DT-770 Pro 80. The Pro 80 was one of the most comfortable headphones I ever had.
   
  For the DT-880 I even tried some gel and leather pads..no luck at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tdock, I don't think so. I believe its because the 770 pads retain their shape better when worn. They are considerably firmer than the 880/990 pads which are super soft and once worn really squish down considerably, which is why I have no doubt they make your ears touch the driver padding. The 770 pads aren't anywhere near as soft, but you'd have to force the cups on to your head for them to squish down on the same level as the 880/990 pads.

My assumption anyways.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why the hell do people on head-fi insist on leather?


 
   
  I have no idea, though it may be more of a case of "Why the hell do headphone manufacturers insist on leather/pleather?"
   
  Consider me first in line if anyone starts making velour pads for the Stax Lambda series...I still find them very comfortable overall and wouldn't trade them for most other headphones for home use in spite of the pleather pads, but that doesn't mean I won't be shopping for aftermarket velour pads at the first available opportunity to make them even more comfortable!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People call velours itchy... I only had that issue with the AD700. Every other velour has been heavenly.


----------



## calpis

I'd rather have itchy over sweaty. Velour actually doesn't make me itch.


----------



## Eric_C

Tdockweiler: Sounds like the problem I had with the Shure 440. I even tried stuffing styrofoam tubes under the pads to give my ears room to breathe--no luck.
   
  If you want the old DT 880, it'll be the '03 version, not '05. '05 is the new version.


----------



## Eric_C

Anyone know where to fit the Modmic onto a Beyer? Just got mine in the mail today, but I'm having trouble getting it to stay on my 880.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> People call velours itchy... I only had that issue with the AD700. Every other velour has been heavenly.


 


   


  Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'd rather have itchy over sweaty. Velour actually doesn't make me itch.


 


 This. Can't stand the leather at all.
   
  I can play or listen to music for hours with velour pads, while with leather ones I start to sweat a lot and have to stop whatever I'm doing. Honestly, I'm finding the velour pads on the 990 premiums even more comfortable than my 555HD. It took a while to get used to, but now I feel like they're really, really comfy.
   
  Just one question MLE. Do you play FFXIII-2 with 5.1 or just in stereo mode?
   
  I'm really considering buying the Q701, but with the PS vita coming out soon I wouldn't have enough money. Darn it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nain, I play all my games in Dolby Digital 5.1.The only games I play in stereo are portable games, and that's because there is no way to hook them up to get real 5.1.


----------



## Naingolann

Alright, thank you!


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Just got the PC360 and they sound very similar to the Hd555 modded.  Gna burn these babies in.


----------



## catscratch

namelesspfg said:


> I have no idea, though it may be more of a case of "Why the hell do headphone manufacturers insist on leather/pleather?"
> 
> Consider me first in line if anyone starts making velour pads for the Stax Lambda series...I still find them very comfortable overall and wouldn't trade them for most other headphones for home use in spite of the pleather pads, but that doesn't mean I won't be shopping for aftermarket velour pads at the first available opportunity to make them even more comfortable!




Lint. 

You want to keep any small particles away from electrostatics, which is why velour pads or anything that can shed small particles is a very bad idea. On the other hand Stax does use fairly good dustcovers over the drivers - even older Lambdas that had the inner foam rot out usually don't have issues with stuff getting into the drivers. The Koss ESP950 on the other hand...

Maybe I'm the least sweaty fool in the universe but I can wear the O2 for hours at a time without any sweat issues. The old SR-404 I had made my ears itch after a few hours though.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





catscratch said:


> Maybe I'm the least sweaty fool in the universe but I can wear the O2 for hours at a time without any sweat issues. The old SR-404 I had made my ears itch after a few hours though.


 
   
  Like I said I think this comes down to pleather vs. leather.  The 404's use pleather but the Omega 2's use real leather on the part of the pad that touches your head.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





catscratch said:


> Lint.
> You want to keep any small particles away from electrostatics, which is why velour pads or anything that can shed small particles is a very bad idea. On the other hand Stax does use fairly good dustcovers over the drivers - even older Lambdas that had the inner foam rot out usually don't have issues with stuff getting into the drivers. The Koss ESP950 on the other hand...
> Maybe I'm the least sweaty fool in the universe but I can wear the O2 for hours at a time without any sweat issues. The old SR-404 I had made my ears itch after a few hours though.


 

 Point taken. Given that the drivers work on the same principle as some air filters, they're naturally going to be dust magnets if not properly protected.
   
  I've thought about at least getting some genuine leather pads, but I'd rather hold off on that until I have a stock SR-Lambda to put them on.


----------



## chicolom

I know PC gamers would probably kick me in the balls for saying this, but the Crysis 1 Xbox port doesn't look half bad.  It's a nice looking engine, even on the 360...


----------



## matryx

Is there any optical switch or splitter you recommend to use with the mixamp. I want to use the mix amp for both my PC and PS3.


----------



## nazekimi

i wonder if anyone has tried HD518's soundstage capabilities. I only saw HD598 and HD558 on this thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

matryx said:


> Is there any optical switch or splitter you recommend to use with the mixamp. I want to use the mix amp for both my PC and PS3.




Optical splitters and manual switchers are CRAP and are bound to not work (I speak from experience). I ended up just forgoing one and manually switching the cables myself.

If its a must, get a good eletronic switcher, like a receiver with multiple inputs and a line out. Bound to be pricey...


----------



## mafiamike

Hello gamers, I am looking for a decent amp for the q701's. I was thinking of the matrix m stage but if you fellas can list some other ones, it would be appreciated. I would like to spend around $500. There are so many amps out that it's pretty hard to just pick one. I will be using my dt 990's(600) and the amp will also be hooked up to the astro mixamp as well. Thanks,  I have been using the fiio E9 but I want to try something new.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Schiit Asgard: $250
Schiit Lyr: $450 + $20 for the 6N1P tubes (better than stock tubes)
Audio-GD C-2.2: $400+20-30 for op-amps (shipped) (lots of power for an SS amp, I'd go for MOON for a tube sound to tame 990 treble)
Objective O2: ($150 built)

For the combo of the 990s and Q701, I'd personally go with the Lyr. Should be phenomenal with those cans. Wish I had kept the Lyr to try those two cans with.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Hello gamers, I am looking for a decent amp for the q701's. I was thinking of the matrix m stage but if you fellas can list some other ones, it would be appreciated. I would like to spend around $500. There are so many amps out that it's pretty hard to just pick one. I will be using my dt 990's(600) and the amp will also be hooked up to the astro mixamp as well. Thanks,  I have been using the fiio E9 but I want to try something new.


 


  Do you already have a DAC?  Because if not you should put some of that budget towards one.  A nice amp can't do much with a crappy source.


----------



## mafiamike

I will definitely check into those amps, I also bought those two headphones under the advice from this thread and they were worth it so thanks again. NOTE: Can someone point me in the right direction for good cables too lol.  I like good sound quality.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Anyone know where to fit the Modmic onto a Beyer? Just got mine in the mail today, but I'm having trouble getting it to stay on my 880.


 


  Um...anyone?


----------



## Phos

I dunno about the Lyr with the Q701, regardless of how picky they are about amps they're still sensitive phones.  
  
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Um...anyone?


 


  Maybe stick it to the DT 880 plaque on the perforated area?  It's supposed to stick to mesh.  If it doesn't the mod mic is flexible enough that you can stick it anywhere.


----------



## mafiamike

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Do you already have a DAC?  Because if not you should put some of that budget towards one.  A nice amp can't do much with a crappy source.


 


 I just play on the 360 and if I want to listen to some tunes, I will hook my amp up to my reciever or my other preamp and play cd's from my blu ray player. I have pretty good knowledge of speakers and home theater but for headphones I am still learning. I am not sure what a DAC is lol and I also dont play any games or music from my computer. Thanks


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Um...anyone?


 

 I'm surprised it's not sticking.  Are the DT880 grills super slick or something?
   
  Have you tried sticking on the metal "DT880" badge?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mafiamike said:


> I just play on the 360 and if I want to listen to some tunes, I will hook my amp up to my reciever or my other preamp and play cd's from my blu ray player. I have pretty good knowledge of speakers and home theater but for headphones I am still learning. I am not sure what a DAC is lol and I also dont play any games or music from my computer. Thanks




You won't need a DAC if you're plugging in from RCA outs. If you use a computer or anything with digital outs (like optical out, digital coaxial out), then a DAC is beneficial, as it will be more than likely better than the source you're using now.

As far as gaming, a DAC is unnecessary assuming you use the Mixamp, as its a DAC itself (though not a particularly good one for music).

I went with the Audio GD NFB 5 because its both a DAC+Amp, though it doesn't have line in, so its not going to work with the Mixamp.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> I just play on the 360 and if I want to listen to some tunes, I will hook my amp up to my reciever or my other preamp and play cd's from my blu ray player. I have pretty good knowledge of speakers and home theater but for headphones I am still learning. I am not sure what a DAC is lol and I also dont play any games or music from my computer. Thanks


 


  A DAC is a digital to analog converter, it takes a digital signal and converts it to a line level analog signal.  Lots of devices have them built in, but the idea here it to use a better one.


----------



## mafiamike

So if the amp doesnt have a line in, it wont work with mixamp? I would not be able to use rca cables and the mixamp?


----------



## Eric_C

Phos, chicolom: Thanks for the responses guys. I tried the perforated area, and it did stick initially, but as I was putting the headphone on my head, the Modmic came off. After that it didn't seem possible to stick it back, because the glue lost some of its adhesiveness.
   
  Maybe I'm just applying it wrong. Like, how long should I wait after swabbing the surface? And how long should I wait after sticking the Modmic on, before using it?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Phos, chicolom: Thanks for the responses guys. I tried the perforated area, and it did stick initially, but as I was putting the headphone on my head, the Modmic came off. After that it didn't seem possible to stick it back, because the glue lost some of its adhesiveness.
> 
> Maybe I'm just applying it wrong. Like, how long should I wait after swabbing the surface? And how long should I wait after sticking the Modmic on, before using it?


 


  It shouldn't take that long.  A minute or two would seem like enough after swabbing.  When I attached the base I held it pushed with my finger for 30 seconds to make sure it was stuck.  You should have another base (comes with two).  I bet modmic company has boatloads of the bases they can send if you screw it up...


----------



## bellsprout

I'm wondering if there's any way to get Dolby effects with a USB dac. There's not right? Do any games have Dolby headphone coded into them?


----------



## nazekimi

Quote: 





nazekimi said:


> i wonder if anyone has tried HD518's soundstage capabilities. I only saw HD598 and HD558 on this thread.


 


  Anyone?
  Hmmm.. I guess I'll just be needing to find a store were I can listen to all of them.
  My budget can only go for the AD700 or HD518s. 
And the AD700 isn't exactly aesthetically pleasing and the "wings"  aren't helping on the comfort part either.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I went with the Audio GD NFB 5 because its both a DAC+Amp, though it doesn't have line in, so its not going to work with the Mixamp.


 


  So no analog inputs on that?!  It's nice running the mixamp into the M-stage and getting that extra soundstage boost.  I wonder what other cheapish amps can do that.  Maybe you should sell the E9 and get an m-stage ;p


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I'm good with the E9 as my Mixamp mate, though I don't find it necessary with either of my main cans. I like them as is just off the Mixamp. The E9 is there for if/when I need a boost when chatting while using the Qs.

But yeah, no analog inputs. Doesn't bother me, as the NFB5 is too big to be lugging it to my room for gaming. Lol.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





bellsprout said:


> I'm wondering if there's any way to get Dolby effects with a USB dac. There's not right? Do any games have Dolby headphone coded into them?


 

 On consoles or PC?  There are a few Dolby Headphones USB DAC's, such as the one Corsair includes with one of their headsets, but I don't think any work on consoles.  
   
  On the PC side of things there are a few games that include Rapture 3D which is better than dolby headphone, and it's possible to get it working with a lot of OpenAL games because it's just an OpenAl implimentation.  I don't think any include built in Dolby headphone.  I've heard the PC version of TF2 includes a HRTF algorithm, I dunno if for one it's actually HRTS and if the 360 version also has it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yo, no lie, I'm seriously in love with the Q701. Jesus. Headphones shouldn't sound this refined at this price range. 

Listening to Gramatik, and OMG, the bass.... where the hell did it come from? Lol. These are definitely ample in bass.

BTW, got my PC360 up for sale (link on my sig)

$120 total for US.


----------



## bellsprout

Quote: 





phos said:


> On consoles or PC?  There are a few Dolby Headphones USB DAC's, such as the one Corsair includes with one of their headsets, but I don't think any work on consoles.
> 
> On the PC side of things there are a few games that include Rapture 3D which is better than dolby headphone, and it's possible to get it working with a lot of OpenAL games because it's just an OpenAl implimentation.  I don't think any include built in Dolby headphone.  I've heard the PC version of TF2 includes a HRTF algorithm, I dunno if for one it's actually HRTS and if the 360 version also has it.


 

 i meant a good one lol...want the freedom of using my own gear. guess i cant have a cake and eat it too


----------



## Maukey

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yo, no lie, I'm seriously in love with the Q701. Jesus. Headphones shouldn't sound this refined at this price range.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  How do you compare the Q701s to the HD598s?  I'm considering upgrading my HD555 and Samson SR850 with one of these headphones.  I primarily use them for gaming, but will pull them out for music as well.  I'm a drummer and pretty much listen to all kinds of music from Rap to Country.  First I should probably ask, are either the Q701 or the HD598 a worthy upgrade from what I have?  Also, I hope none of these headphones are overly bright (Sibilant Highs).  My only problem with my SR850 is that I don't like how gun shots sound through them due to the emphasized highs.  My HD555s produce more realistic gun shots to my ears because they are warmer.  The SR850 make them sound more like cap guns than true gun fire.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





maukey said:


> *How do you compare the Q701s to the HD598s?  *I'm considering upgrading my HD555 and Samson SR850 with one of these headphones.  I primarily use them for gaming, but will pull them out for music as well.  I'm a drummer and pretty much listen to all kinds of music from Rap to Country.  First I should probably ask, are either the Q701 or the HD598 a worthy upgrade from what I have?  Also, I hope none of these headphones are overly bright (Sibilant Highs).  My only problem with my SR850 is that I don't like how gun shots sound through them due to the emphasized highs.  My HD555s produce more realistic gun shots to my ears because they are warmer.  The SR850 make them sound more like cap guns than true gun fire.
> 
> Thanks!


 

 I am dying to know this as well. As I am probably putting my HD598s up for sale this weekend. The DT990pros will suffice for now. Saints Row 3 + DT's is magical all those glorious explosions and bouncing metal in all directions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 is more like the K701 than the Q701. The HD598 is outright boring compared to the Qs. The HD598's mids are more forward and richer, while its bass is a step behind the Qs.

The Q701s treble is never sibilant. They are smooth, but with enough sparkle to satisfy me, and I'm a treblehead.

The bass on the Qs is just better. Drums sound spectacular off them. Its the deep low bass where the Qs don't excelin, but the punchy mid bass is stellar.

I'd say the Q701 sounds of higher quality overall. The HD598 is great for analytical gaming, but nothing outside of its very involving mids will grab at you. The Q701 is more engaging as a whole.

I'd recommend the Qs every time, over the HD598.

I wanna mention that I'm very sensitive to mid bass. Mid bass tends to giveme headaches if its too emphasized. The Q701 has strong midbass, yet the way it hits never gets annoying, which is quite a feat. The impact diffuses in a way that it doesn't feel like a hammer hitting the side of my head. Its quite satisfying. Its not a bass monster, but its surely not lacking in impact. If a song calls for it, the bass will be there.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bellsprout said:


> I'm wondering if there's any way to get Dolby effects with a USB dac. There's not right? Do any games have Dolby headphone coded into them?


 

 If you have a Creative soundcard in your PC (cheap one is only $25) you can bypass the cheap internal hardware and pipe the software processing to any DAC you'd like. It's CMSS instead of Dolby, but it works quite well. I posted a step-by-step guide over in the Nameless PC thread.


----------



## tdockweiler

As for the HD-598 vs Q701...
  I know MLE might have expected this, but I don't agree that the HD-598 is closer to the K701.
  The HD-598 is a very very good headphone if mids are a high priority and bass and treble are not as high on your list of priorities. I don't find it bass light or close to it, but it does have much more treble to my ears than the HD-600 and HD-650. I personally don't find it to be treble heavy or close.
   
  With my setup the Q701 isn't quite as warm as the HD-598. Close. Often, the HD-598 seems like it has much thicker mids than the Q701, but  NOT like the HD-600 or HD-650. It has more forward mids than the Q701 and that alone can often make the HD-598 more engaging for me than the Q701. It depends on what does it for you. The mids of the HD-598 are addicting. They're not so forward as to annoy you.
   
  The HD-598 would be better for those that have a lot of bad recordings and might want to slightly take the edge off them. Some of the Jpop I have is just a pain to listen to. With my HD-598 they're made more listenable, but not tamed as much as they are on the HD-600/650. The HD-598 IMO isn't even remotely cold or analytical. q701 is better for those that want to hear their music the way it's supposed to be, without making it sound any better than it really is. The Q701 is very, very slightly forgiving..sometimes.
   
  The HD-598 to MY ears is very smooth sounding. I could listen to them all day without fatigue. Despite the forward mids, it's very balanced sounding. I could fall asleep while listening to the HD-598, but yet it doesn't bore me like the HD-600. I know this makes no sense!
   
  The Q701 is an upgrade, but they're really so different. I guess I do agree now that the bass on the Q701 is better. Q701 also has a larger soundstage.
   
  With both headphones it comes down to preferences. HD-598 is a keeper for me because it often sounds better for female vocals and random (bad) pop music.
   
  BTW the Q701 is much, much clearer sounding too. That's another huge advantage. Q701 is also not much more expensive and has better build quality.
   
  The HD-598 is closer to the HD-600, but has less bass, more forward mids and more treble. Definitely a larger soundstage. I've found it to have more detail, but many won't agree. I hate the HD-555, but somehow I love the HD-598. Even did the 595 mod on the HD-555. I'm not a fan of Sennheiser headphones, but HD-598 is really very good. Q701 and HD-598 make a good pair. IMO the HD-598 is better than the HD-600 and HD-650. Again, for that it depends on preferences.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Now if you had to choose between the DT990 and Q701 what would it be? I'm really thinking about picking up a DT990 one of these days. 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD598 is more like the K701 than the Q701. The HD598 is outright boring compared to the Qs. The HD598's mids are more forward and richer, while its bass is a step behind the Qs.
> The Q701s treble is never sibilant. They are smooth, but with enough sparkle to satisfy me, and I'm a treblehead.
> The bass on the Qs is just better. Drums sound spectacular off them. Its the deep low bass where the Qs don't excelin, but the punchy mid bass is stellar.
> I'd say the Q701 sounds of higher quality overall. The HD598 is great for analytical gaming, but nothing outside of its very involving mids will grab at you. The Q701 is more engaging as a whole.
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well I wouldn't say the HD598 is exactly like the K701, just that they sounded closer to the K701 to me than the Q701. I'd place them as a lower end midpoint between the K and Q.

I do agree, the mids on the HD598 are something special, and I'm not even a mid fanatic. I'm generally happy as long as the mids aren't lost, but the HD598 has some pretty rich mids that demand attention. The Q701s mids are forward, but not the way the HD598's are. The sense of space in the Qs makes the mids a bit more evened out for me.

It has been awhile for the HD598, and I admit that my time with them wasn't as long as my time with the K701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bababooeyhtj said:


> Now if you had to choose between the DT990 and Q701 what would it be? I'm really thinking about picking up a DT990 one of these days.




I'd compare the Q701 more with the DT880 than the DT990.

The DT990 is overall a much more FUN can, with lots of low end, and lots of treble. The Q701 is infinitely more balanced as a whole, but not as fun as the 990s. If you prefer more fun than balanced, the 990 is my recommendation. However, both can do competitive and fun gaming. I do miss the sub bass on the 990s that the Qs just don't have, but I appreciate the better mids and smoother treble on the Qs.


----------



## Hailin

Thanks to both of you I now have to try the Q701. The HD598 mids annoy me because they are so forward. I agree for what it is, it's an amazing headphone and oh so light to wear. The DT990pros are my perfect headphone sound. I know the Q701 will be very different from them. But sometimes different is good and I really want that wide open soundstage of the HD598. That part I was so addicted too.
   
  If I was to order what I own it would go: DT990pro, KSC75, Superlux HD668B, JVC Air Cushion, Monoprice 8323 then the HD598. Which I know is odd cause when you find that perfect song the Senn's just soar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 should be a great compliment to the DT990 Pros. 

They both have good bit of mid bass, but the DT990 pros have a whopping low end, while the Qs have better mids. A great combo, for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PC360 is already sold. 

Guess I should be ordering the antlion modmic soon. That or the DX clip on... 

Kinda happy to give them a home that will give them some use. I feel sad when headphones aren't used.


----------



## Isotriv

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Looks like my PC360 is already sold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yo dude as soon I as saw those go up it was an immediate buy for me. I've Been a long time follower of this thread to find the perfect gaming audio setup and if most of what I read is true the: PC360 + Astro mixamp = win for COD games. Finally I can move away from stereo! Thanks again MLE and btw you'll find the info your looking for in the paypal message I sent.
   
  It sux that I can only send 2 private messages : /


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I saw. Stay on head-fi, so I can keep in contact with you. 

I sent you your first positive feedback. 

I should have like +7 now, lol. People forgetting...

I'll be sending them out tomorrow.

BTW, I'll also add a Y cable *(FOUND IT, YAY*), seeing as your Mixamp may not come with it (stupid Astro), and they charge $10 for it. :rolleyes:

I've had an extra laying around for awhile. Figured it'd be nice to have (and necessary for the PC360).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, I'll also add a Y cable *(FOUND IT, YAY*), seeing as your Mixamp may not come with it (stupid Astro), and they charge $10 for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  All mixamps should come with a y cable....


----------



## Isotriv

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I saw. Stay on head-fi, so I can keep in contact with you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 O No need. Astro was kind enough to send me a Y-adapter with the amp (looks like this: http://www.gamestate.co/upload/products/accessories/cable_yadapter_01.jpg ). But anyway, bussiness later, back to the headphones discussion yes?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, they stopped adding Y cables to the wired Mixamps at some point, though they may have started adding them again.

Ok, I'll keep my spare then. 

SOOOO, I ordered the DX clip on mic again. Can't beat it for that price. 

I'd have went with the Antlion, but considering how little I actually chat, I figured I'd save myself $30.


----------



## Isotriv

Have you guys heard the music from Dustforce? Like, not only is the game really good but the music is nothing short of AMAZING! Even though they're just beats...
   
  http://lifeformed.bandcamp.com/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very nice soundtrack, actually. 

Still, Nier has the best soundtrack...ever. Not even a debate. 

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5xZbJDZZo4&feature=related[/VIDEO]


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very nice soundtrack, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Holy $#*!, I'm getting goosebumps...
   
  Is that the track, my new PFE232s, or both?
   
   
  EDIT:  What, the video doesn't show up in the quote on the editor but is placed randomly in the actual post...


----------



## Phos

MLE, do you need a 1/8 or 1/4 connector?  There's a group buy going on for clear sheathed wire, would you prefer it with natural (offwhite) cotton tube over the silver platted copper I already have or the clear stuff?  I ask to find out how much of the clear wire I should get.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer a 1/4th, unless you can find a 1/8th with a screw on type of 1/4th plug.

Whatever you think looks the nicest, though I'd wanna see the wire first...


----------



## Phos

I have no idea where those screw on connectors come from, but I do have both a black and nickle connector housing and both a nickle and gold plated connector, and they all fit with each other, any color preference?  And how long of a cable are you looking for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Gold plated, umm 8-10 feet?

I'd have to see them, lol.

TBH, this isn't a priority or anything. I wouldn't get one atm.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very nice soundtrack, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Ahh! I love Nier. That game's ost is definitely one of my favorites...You should also listen to Castlevania: Lords of Shadow if you haven't already. Epic soundtrack...gives me goosebumps whenever I hear it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm a HUUUUGE Castlevania fan, so yeah. 

I spent a bit too much time on Harmony of Despair (and still do) for PS3.

Around 250 hours grinding the hell out of that game.


----------



## LordWormwood

I current have the AD700 - running out of a E17 but I am looking now for something with a little bit more bass (or is that "some" bass). I was thinking that the K701 might be the ticket but thought I would check in here first. The other thought was looking at the PC360... but... they just look cheap and nasty ( which has nothing to do with the output of course)
   
  Gaming I am on a PC and currently trapped in Skyrim and the battle fields of BF3. I am looking at grabbing the Mixamp also in the near future.
   
   
  Regards,
   
  Wormwood


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K701 (and even better, the Q701) is a natural upgrade to the AD700. I say go for it.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





lordwormwood said:


> I current have the AD700 - running out of a E17 but I am looking now for something with a little bit more bass (or is that "some" bass). I was thinking that the K701 might be the ticket but thought I would check in here first. The other thought was looking at the PC360... but... they just look cheap and nasty ( which has nothing to do with the output of course)
> 
> Gaming I am on a PC and currently trapped in Skyrim and the battle fields of BF3. I am looking at grabbing the Mixamp also in the near future.
> 
> ...


 

 I've also been playing tons of Skyrim and BF3 over the past few months. I'm partial to my Beyer 770s. I'm actually also looking at the E17 as something to pick up very soon. I honestly never find the bass that overwhelming unless I EQ it up, at which point the Beyers do start to try and lift off your head. Then again, I'm used to playing with my gigantic sub right next to my feet cranked up, and mine came fully burnt in, so YMMV.


----------



## LordWormwood

MLE,
   
  Thank you for the speedy and informed response. Quick question on the K & Q - from what I have seen out there the K is more expensive but older, correct?
   
   
  Fantastic thread you have here!
   
   
   
  Wormwood


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It shouldn't take that long.  A minute or two would seem like enough after swabbing.  When I attached the base I held it pushed with my finger for 30 seconds to make sure it was stuck.  You should have another base (comes with two).  I bet modmic company has boatloads of the bases they can send if you screw it up...


 


  Just wanted to let you know that it's all good now. The plate with "DT 880" engraved on it seems a better surface to stick the mic onto, both for grip and for positioning. w00t!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lordwormwood said:


> MLE,
> 
> Thank you for the speedy and informed response. Quick question on the K & Q - from what I have seen out there the K is more expensive but older, correct?
> 
> ...




That's right. The Q is the newer model, and I would say superior in all aspects to the K701. Its a fuller, more enjoyable sound.

Not a big difference, but the change is beneficial overall.


----------



## Phos

I think why Headroom lists the K701 as more expensive is that they adhere to MSRP's which AKG never formally lowered, but everyone else did lower it, and now the Q701 came out at a more competitive price.


----------



## High Fidelity

Like LordWormwood I also have the AD700. I bought it as well as the mixamp for an edge in FPS games on the xbox 360. I'm looking for a better AD700. My priority is playing FPS. I'm considering getting either the K701, K702, or Q701. Would the warmer sound of the Q701 result in reduced sound positioning/directional accuracy? Same question for the increased bass. Finally, is an additional amp needed for the AKGs if I keep the mixamp game/voice dial in the middle? I have pretty sensitive hearing so with the AD700 I have the volume set at 1/5.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure how much volume you like, but with voice/game at 50%, I wouldn't be happy with the Mixamp alone for the AKGs. If you want the simplest upgrade to the AD700, I'd say the K701, as the Q701 isn't as analytical (though still exceptional at detail retrieval).


----------



## afrocod

I'm getting a consensus elsewhere that the Woo Audio WA3 would be best for my DT990(600). Is there any reason I shouldn't go for this in terms of hooking up to the DSS and mainly gaming with it? I haven't seen it mentioned at all on this thread. I already have the E9/E7. Should I go for this or do you have any counter suggestions?


----------



## Mysterious

So am putting off buying the M50's considering the fact everyone thinks the Galaxy SII is a ****ty music player
 So will probably get a new player then buy the headphones
   
  Thanks for the recommendations though


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> So am putting off buying the M50's considering the fact everyone thinks the Galaxy SII is a ****ty music player
> So will probably get a new player then buy the headphones


 


  Did you post in the wrong thread by accident?


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Did you post in the wrong thread by accident?


 


  Nope


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure how much volume you like, but with voice/game at 50%, I wouldn't be happy with the Mixamp alone for the AKGs.


 


  With game/voice at 12 o'clock you max out the mixamp's master volume?!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Even with game voice at 70% I still only go to 65% on the master volume...


----------



## rabidgamer

Pictures of my Pro 900s w/ the mod mic, one with the mic on and one with it off. It's a brilliant little device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> With game/voice at 12 o'clock you max out the mixamp's master volume?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's dependent on the game I play. If I have game at 100%, my master volume tends to be at around 70%. Once you set game/voice to 50%, volume takes a steep dive. I have to do more testing, but FWIR, I need more than the Mixamp gives.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's dependent on the game I play. If I have game at 100%, my master volume tends to be at around 70%. Once you set game/voice to 50%, volume takes a steep dive. I have to do more testing, but FWIR, I need more than the Mixamp gives.


 


  Hmm...If I have game at 100% I'm only at 40% master volume.  I guess you just like to listen twice as loudly as I do


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably. 70% at full GAME is pretty much my very limit. Most of the time, I'll run it a little less, maybe 50-60% which isn't loud but moderate for me.


----------



## Aizura

Quote: 





rabidgamer said:


> Pictures of my Pro 900s w/ the mod mic, one with the mic on and one with it off. It's a brilliant little device.


 


 Best gaming headset ever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish the mod mic was a bit bulkier. I liked the huge mic on the PC360. It looked legit.


----------



## LordWormwood

Narrowing it down a tad I am looking now at the Q701 or the DT 990 - they are falling in the same pricing range here in Australia. Is there any personal fav. out there regarding the two?
   
  Wormwood


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Depends on what you want. The Q701 is more balanced, and a general all rounder. The DT990 specializes in fun, with great bass and helluva lot of sparkle in the treble. The Beyer equivalent of the Q701 is the DT880.

If you want find yourself playing more single player games, the DT990 is it. If you're more competitive in games like FPS, the Q701 is it.

I personally prefer the DT990, but since I have the D7000 (which would do the same tasks but better), I have no need for it. The Q701 is my complimentary can for all other uses.

if I were to put them in an overall tier list (for all uses) ...

D7000
HE-4
DT990
DT880 = Q701 (I especially like that the Q701's treble isn't harsh, but still sparkly enough).

As my personal faves, above all the rest I've owned. Again, that's for GENERAL use, not just for gaming, hence why the K701, HD598, and PC360 aren't on there, which I don't like for anything outside of gaming competitively.


----------



## High Fidelity

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure how much volume you like, but with voice/game at 50%, I wouldn't be happy with the Mixamp alone for the AKGs. If you want the simplest upgrade to the AD700, I'd say the K701, as the Q701 isn't as analytical (though still exceptional at detail retrieval).


 


  So the K701 for competitive gaming and the Q701 for all-around gaming, music? Is the Q701 warmer than the HD 595?


----------



## High Fidelity

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> With game/voice at 12 o'clock you max out the mixamp's master volume?!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Are you saying that the K701 works fine with just the mixamp for you?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





high fidelity said:


> So the K701 for competitive gaming and the Q701 for all-around gaming, music? Is the Q701 warmer than the HD 595?


 


  Yes, technically the K701 signature is better for competitive gaming.  Not enough to justify losing the fun of the Q's though IMO.  Q701 is warmer than my PC360, so it should be similar for the HD595.
   
  ...But _if all you care about is competitive gaming_ I'm not sure either AKG is better then the HD5xx Sennheisers.  Not enough to justify the price difference anyways.

  
  Quote: 





high fidelity said:


> Are you saying that the K701 works fine with just the mixamp for you?


 

  
_For me_, yes.  The mixamp can drive them past what I consider ear-damaging levels, especially without chat mixed in.  With that said, I do double amp with my M-stage, but only because it boosts the soundstage.  I don't need the extra volume.


----------



## High Fidelity

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> _For me_, yes.  The mixamp can drive them past what I consider ear-damaging levels, especially without chat mixed in.  With that said, I do double amp with my M-stage, but only because it boosts the soundstage.  I don't need the extra volume.


 

  
  Does the K701 have a larger soundstage with an extra amp, say the FiiO E9, than the AD700 with just the mixamp?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





high fidelity said:


> Does the K701 have a larger soundstage with an extra amp, say the* FiiO E9*, than the AD700 with just the mixamp?


 

  
  The E9 didn't improve the soundstage when double amping.  It made the sound a little warmer and boomier, which made the soundstage seem smaller.  So I would cross the E9 off your list in terms of improving the mixamp soundstage; Look at different amps instead.
   
  The M-stage + mixamp _does _improve the soundstage.  I can't say for sure as it's been too long since I've heard the AD700.  I still don't think it's bigger than the AD700s though.  Going of memory the AKGs have a taller soundstage.
   
  Of course the sound signature and bass of the AKG's severely pwns the AD700s.


----------



## calpis

@chicolom
  Is your mstage modded at all? Also a little OT but how well does the e10 pair with your mstage? I've been thinking about upgrading from a hifiman hm101.
   
  I'm going to have to downgrade soon and start using a mixamp for console gaming instead of my hk receiver.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would think the HK receiver would be more beneficial, assuming yours has Dolby Headphone. Better amp section, multiple optical inputs? Seems like less of a hassle compared to the Mixamp, aside from the lack of voice chat.


----------



## calpis

I would like to keep it since it does have DH but I'll be moving soon and I'll have less room than I have now. For my mic, I would just connect it directly to the controller and adjust the volume in the xbox preferences. Also, had no need for opticals since mine has 2 hdmi inputs.
   
  I'm going to miss it unless I can find a way to fit everything inside the room.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh I see. Yeah, I would probably say the Mixamp is probably gonna sound inferior if you A/B them.

Its a damn hassle if you have multiple optical cables fighting for the sole optical input. Its SO stupid of them to have one input, when they should realize gamers that would buy their product would more than likely own multiple consoles.

You can gamble on an optical splitter/switcher,but all the ones I've tried have failed miserably. Leaves me with having to manually unplug the cable for the other whenever I switch consoles. So for now I usually just leave one of the console's sound playing off the soundbar, and whatever gets most use gets the Mixamp. Lately, that's been the PS3. Though the soundbar gets all sounds from the TV's optical out anyways, whenever I feel like not wearing cans.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> @chicolom
> Is your mstage modded at all? Also a little OT but how well does the e10 pair with your mstage? I've been thinking about upgrading from a hifiman hm101.
> 
> I'm going to have to downgrade soon and start using a mixamp for console gaming instead of my hk receiver.


 

 Not really.  Stock m-stage still boosts the soundstage.  Opamp rolling is either extremely subtle or possibly placebo IMO =\
   
  E10 is pretty good.  Pretty open sounding.  My HRT DAC is more detailed and what not.  If you just need a DAC you could also look at the FiiO D3 which is cheapo.


----------



## calpis

I used to use that one black monoprice optical splitter when I had an xbox pioneer HTiB that didn't have a headphone jack. I used that splitter to split the signal between that and a sony virtual headphone box. I didn't have any hiccups even when I used my 5.1 and headphones at the same time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I bought that one on two separate occasions, and both had audio drop outs, crackling, and just rage inducing sound issues. Then I bought the one with the knob, and it worked half the time. I just need a simple powered box that has like 4 optical inputs, one output, with no conversions. Powered so as to push a button and not a damn knob that could mess up whatever is inside...


----------



## calpis

I see that monoprice has a 4x1 hdmi switch w/ an optical out. I may have to give that one a shot. I wish my oppo hdmi switch had an optical output too :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to make sure the optical out doesn't convert the signal to PCM (my TV does, so I can't get Dolby Digital through its optical out).


----------



## calpis

Good call. I completely forgot to check that. Reading through the reviews leads me to believe that it does in fact work but the people claiming that it does send a 5.1 signal out the optical forget to mention if it's DTS or DD.
   
  Here's the switcher in case you're interested:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=7974&seq=1&format=2


----------



## mahmoud

What's the difference between the turtle beach dss 1 and dss 2? or should i just get a mixamp? By the way, do laptop onboard sound cards have that virtual surround dolby thing? O listened to some dolby surround tests on youtube, but i am not really sure about how it should sound like. My solution currently is to get the av sound output of rca audio to jack 3.5 cables, this gives stereo sound


----------



## Mcarter3

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> maverick, I know this will sound disappointing, but I ended up going with the Audio GD NFB 5 as my DAC/AMP. It has a lot of power and has a DAC. Assuming I like it enough for the D7000, it will keep me from getting something considerably more expensive, and opening funds for the Q701.
> I don't have golden ears, so assuming it's 'good enough', I'll be happy with it. I'm more interested in headphones anyways.
> With the 2 ohm output impedance (perfect for anything above 16 ohms)
> 3500mW/25 ohm (D7000 + LOTS of powah)
> ...


 


  MLE-   How do you like the nfb over the fiio e7 e9 setup. I have the fiio setup with d5000's and a couple of the nfb's are on my short list for an upgrade


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mahmoud said:


> What's the difference between the turtle beach dss 1 and dss 2? or should i just get a mixamp? By the way, do laptop onboard sound cards have that virtual surround dolby thing? O listened to some dolby surround tests on youtube, but i am not really sure about how it should sound like. My solution currently is to get the av sound output of rca audio to jack 3.5 cables, this gives stereo sound


 
  I'm 99% sure your laptop does not have Dolby Virtual Headphone.
  I'm guessing the Dolby surround tests on youtube are already pre-processed for Dolby Virtual Headphone.
  where as 99.99% of the audio in the world does not come pre-processed with Dolby Virtual Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MCarter, I haven't received my NFB5 yet. I'm anxious. XD

As for the Dolby Headphone tests on youtube, they are actually NOT Dolby Headphone. They are binaural recordings falsely labeled as DH. They have similarities, but they are not the same. Dolby Headphone doesn't do rear sounds THAT good, and front sounds are better on DH. On Binaural, front sounds appear to come from above your head. Those are the tradeoffs.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> MCarter, I haven't received my NFB5 yet. I'm anxious. XD
> As for the Dolby Headphone tests on youtube, they are actually NOT Dolby Headphone. They are binaural recordings falsely labeled as DH. They have similarities, but they are not the same. Dolby Headphone doesn't do rear sounds THAT good, and front sounds are better on DH. On Binaural, front sounds appear to come from above your head. Those are the tradeoffs.


 

 It's a different HRTF profile.  For example, Rapture's red and green HRTFs seem to do that for me, but Amber seems to put front sounds in front.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna mention that I feel the Q701 responds very favorably to the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost. Good full bodied bass, yet retaining the quality sound. Its a subtle boost, but noticeable.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just wanna mention that I feel the Q701 responds very favorably to the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost. Good full bodied bass, yet retaining the quality sound. Its a subtle boost, but noticeable.


 


  It'd probably pair great with the DSS bass boost.  The DSS had tighter bass boost with more impact, and it seemed to clip less than the mixamps bass boost.  I could leave it on all the time and not get distracted by the pops and clipping. 
   
  The DSS 2 seems to have ditched the bass boost knob for an electronic EQ switch (with only two bass settings I think), so it may not perform as good as the first DSS...


----------



## SniperCzar

Hey MLE, you know that bass heavy Overclocked Remix song you posted earlier? I think I may have found myself a new bass testing song along similar lines. Done by a guy from OCR? Check. Insane bass? Check. Here ya go - http://soundcloud.com/prototyperaptor/fenech-soler-demons-raptoredit/

 As I was messing around I also found myself an awesome test for headphone surround. As an anime fan I'm assuming you've seen Eva Rebuild. Just load up the Blu-Ray, flip on the headphone surround (I actually forgot the first time to flip on 5.1 inside my media player), and skip to the final fight scene in Eva 1.11 with all the point defense systems opening fire. My jaw was on the floor!


----------



## Phos

So I've got a question about the PC360: When I turn down the volume on the cup, that's electronically identical to raising the output impedance of my source, correct?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, Prototyperaptor is just amazing.

In any case, I absolutely HATED the original EVA and its What ending, so no on Rebuild. Unless they dramatically changed the plot to something less derptastic, I won't even look into it.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, Prototyperaptor is just amazing.
> In any case, I absolutely HATED the original EVA and its What ending, so no on Rebuild. Unless they dramatically changed the plot to something less derptastic, I won't even look into it.


 
  Did you see that PR hour-long mix I posted earlier in the thread? Completely nuts.

 I for one skipped the final 2 eps of Eva and EoE, which saved me from the mindscrew. So far I'm liking Rebuild a lot. The first volume (1.11 for the English version) is almost exactly the same as the first 6.5 eps of the original. 2.22 goes in an whole new direction and even introduces a new pilot. Though I will say I'd still recommend watching the first as it's the only series I've seen that simply HAS to be watched in HD. The animation is just that good, regardless of how they choose to end it this time around (that's going to be volume 4 when it comes out, 3 is supposed to come out this year). Probably helps that it's the Japanese equivalent of James Cameron making Avatar years later after pocketing a cool billion from Titanic, I can't even imagine what the Japanese are budgeting for Rebuild. IMO it's worth watching even if you can't stomach the screwy storyline, assuming you watch it in HD. And there's one part in 1.11 near the end where they dance around the entire soundstage that just floored me when I tested it with virtual surround, they take a part which would otherwise just be a very long sequence of "charging laser, please wait" and just spew cannon fire and random NERV treknobabble at you from all 5 channels. Very cool effect and it really shows off an epic soundstage in my Beyers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll wait until it's all out before I give it a chance. Since they went a new direction, I can see if it's good. I'm extremely picky with my anime. I drop them as soon as they start to bore me.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Hey MLE, you know that bass heavy Overclocked Remix song you posted earlier? I think I may have found myself a new bass testing song along similar lines. Done by a guy from OCR? Check. Insane bass? Check. Here ya go - http://soundcloud.com/prototyperaptor/fenech-soler-demons-raptoredit/


 

 (Not to turn this into a song thread.)
  Damn I am loving this guys work. His style is a lot of fun and reminds me a lot of Madeon. Lots of foot tapping and head nodding going on. These songs are just kicking so hard with the DT's. Even off my crappy Realtek sound card.
  I am a huge Pendulum fan and I am loving Proto's remix I just keep going back to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a terrible memory. Hailin, did you buy the 990 Pros based off my recommendation? If so, how you liking them for gaming? Anything you feel they lack?

I always wanna know if what I recommend is working out, because I feel bad if it doesn't.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have a terrible memory. Hailin, did you buy the 990 Pros based off my recommendation? If so, how you liking them for gaming? Anything you feel they lack?
> I always wanna know if what I recommend is working out, because I feel bad if it doesn't.


 
   
  Yes, and some extra research.
 I really wanted some Denons originally but worried the soundstage wasn't going to cut it for me. Very difficult for me, if impossible, to test all these different suggestions due to my location.
  After the disappointment that was the HD598. You and I had the very same experience with them. This reminds me I really have to get them up on the for sale forum. (hint hint any Canadians, lol)
  I really wanted the Premium 600 but I had two issues. I couldn't get them in Canada (Very Expensive) and I knew I wasn't going to be able to get an amp for them anytime soon. I happen to stumble across a store that sold the Pros for 200 up here. After reading some of Mal's comments on the Pros vs Premium being very close in sound other then the clamping force (Which can be fixed).
   
  For gaming I have only played some KoA:Reckoning sound is very subpar and rear dolby is sort of muffled on the ps3. I thought it was the system but FF13-2 rear placement is just fine. To be honest neither of these games force rear placement. The coolest is Saints Row 3 on the XBOX that is some beautiful noise. So boomy, loud and sharp. Explosions with shrapnel bouncing all around you. They are very home theater sounding. Deep bass/bright highs/slightly hidden mids.(HD598 makes sweet love to mid range.) As you have said in the past very V-shaped. I really want to lend them to my brother as he is the shooter guy and get his opinion. I think you are right though the bass would be way to much for a COD/BF3 player but honestly I don't know cause I can't speak from experience.
   
  They are very close to the Superlux HD668B. With a slightly larger soundstage, and better resolution. My Luxes have higher highs, and less bass impact. If someone wants to try a cheap 990 Beyer knock off they are the ones to check out.
   
  Damn it I got all wordy again. I really need to stop doing that, sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I still want to try some Denons and the Q701. Need something for soundtracks and acoustic material.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the Q701 would be a better HD598, but not leaps and bounds better. The Q701 is definitely better for me personally, but the improvement may not be worthwhile to you. Better bass, less forward mids, and pretty even treble. Its a fuller sound for sure, but if you're looking for mids, the Qs won't beat the HD598.

Just for me, the Q701s sound more involved with everything, making them more cohesive as a whole, where I felt the dynamics in the HD598 weren't exceptional.


----------



## bellsprout

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> If you have a Creative soundcard in your PC (cheap one is only $25) you can bypass the cheap internal hardware and pipe the software processing to any DAC you'd like. It's CMSS instead of Dolby, but it works quite well. I posted a step-by-step guide over in the Nameless PC thread.


 


  thanks for that! you may have saved me a few hundred $ there haha
   
  does this mean that you can have a separate output devices for playback and recording?


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bellsprout said:


> thanks for that! you may have saved me a few hundred $ there haha
> 
> does this mean that you can have a separate output devices for playback and recording?


 

 Yeah, the "What U Hear" doesn't have to be set as the primary recording device to enable porting, so you can still use a mic and talk to someone on Mumble/Vent/TS if that's what you're asking. Just make sure that your audio device in the program is set to the default recording device, not the Creative DSP capture. It's done that way in Windows 7 because that feature was originally designed to let you plug in your iPod to the mic in port with a M-M 3.5mm jack.


----------



## DCB305

DSS2, I finally did some testing on the surround sound angles on the DSS2 and IMO, there really wasn't any perceivable difference in the 6 settings it offers or maybe my ears aren't as trained as others. It seems that it may just use different levels of delay but at such a subtle rate it really is hard to discern. I had my nephew change settings in one trial and I would try to tell the difference often I would have to make sure he even changed the setting. So as far as that feature is concerned IMO it's not worth getting the DSS2 if that's why you want it. As for the EQ settings, this feature is pretty nice, I didn't have any crackling when using the bass boost features and when really trying to get a bead on the opposition in COD the mid boost definitely helped. Although the EQ'ing did leave alot to be desired, as it's function is generally just to bring certain frequencies to the front, I can say it did help and was a nice feature. In SP I would put it on the bass and treble boost setting and it did a nice job of adding fun to the PC360. Another thing I liked was that there is little (if there is I can't hear it) to no noise coming from the DSS2. It is not as powerful as the Tritton decoder box but did a good job of powering the PC360. I do not own a Astro Mix amp so I can't help you there. IMO the biggest drawback for me was the inability to use the chat feature with anything other than TB headsets, if you want chat you will probably have to buy a Turtle Beach headset as the connection for their chat feature is through USB and not a 3.5mm jack. All in all for $79.99 the DSS2 is decent you just have to see if it's right for your setup and game play.


----------



## Hailin

Just for ***** and giggles if I was to upgrade from the DT990pro and HD598 what would be the next logical step.
  Or maybe just keeping what I have and buying say a Matrix or GD Audio amp/dac? I was going to get the E17 but I honestly don't see myself going that portable with it.
  Would a D7000 be a step up or possibly Ultrasone 2900?(Have heard they are not the most comfortable headphone.)
  Remember this is a little fantasy.
  Wish I could have the soundstage, resolution, and mids of the HD598. Mixed with the bass, highs, fun and comfort (after stretching) of the DT990pros. We can all dream.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Just for ***** and giggles if I was to upgrade from the DT990pro and HD598 what would be the next logical step.
> Or maybe just keeping what I have and buying say a Matrix or GD Audio amp/dac? I was going to get the E17 but I honestly don't see myself going that portable with it.
> Would a D7000 be a step up or possibly Ultrasone 2900?(Have heard they are not the most comfortable headphone.)
> Remember this is a little fantasy.
> Wish I could have the soundstage, resolution, and mids of the HD598. Mixed with the bass, highs, fun and comfort (after stretching) of the DT990pros. We can all dream.


 
  What source(s) do you currently plug your headphones into?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DHL called me today to inform me that my package would be in today. NFB-5 should be here soon. 

Though I think they (different number) called again and I didn't answer... they better not have taken that as me not being home. That'd be bull...


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> What source(s) do you currently plug your headphones into?


 

 My PC with a Realtek HD(front port, back port can't even push out enough volume for my IEMs), it has more then enough volume to deafen me on the DT990pro, but I do know volume isn't everything. Also the mixamp which is a large portion of my time. I do have concerns about double amping the mixamp though. Have also read it isn't that big of a deal either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because back ports are for speakers which need a LOT more current than headphones which need more voltage... lol.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hailin said:


> My PC with a Realtek HD(front port, back port can't even push out enough volume for my IEMs), it has more then enough volume to deafen me on the DT990pro, but I do know volume isn't everything. Also the mixamp which is a large portion of my time. I do have concerns about double amping the mixamp though. Have also read it isn't that big of a deal either.


 

 Maybe try the O2 (Objective 2) headphone amplifier, I'm thinking of getting the desktop version which should be available in a month or two.
  I really doubt your built in Realtek sound brings out the best of the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.


----------



## rabinzero

Long time reader and user of this website and I have to say this thread is awesome.  Finally one for gamers using headphones.  I'm currently using the Tritton AX720 decoder box with Denon D1100's but want to use a more beefier decoder/receiver so if I ever upgrade headphones I won't be forced to use ONLY 32ohm headphones AND I can use speakers when I want to.  I am looking at two receivers by Harman Kardon that feature Harman Headphone (which the HK representative said is their version of Dolby Headphone) and one with Dolby Headphone along with it.
   
  HK - AVR-2600 Harman Headphone
  HK - AVR-3600 Harman Headphone w/Dolby Headphone
   
  My main question is, could I get the 2600 and get the same sound or does Dolby Headphone make THAT much of a difference.  I don't want to get the one not having Dolby Headphone and (since I already have something with Dolby Headphone) be spoiled to that sound, BUT if I can't tell the difference I will get the 2600.  Thanks for all the info this thread has provided so far!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's because back ports are for speakers which need a LOT more current than headphones which need more voltage... lol.


 

 Oh cool this is good to know. 
   


  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Maybe try the O2 (Objective 2) headphone amplifier, I'm thinking of getting the desktop version which should be available in a month or two.
> I really doubt your built in Realtek sound brings out the best of the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.


 
  Oh I am not disagreeing with that at all. While it can bring the volume it is very highly unlikely that it is bringing all the goodness they can achieve for sure.
  The O2 and ODA are on my fantasy wish list. I have read all the way from Burson's to Asus to Fiio. Trying to pick the right amp can be a little daunting.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> Long time reader and user of this website and I have to say this thread is awesome.  Finally one for gamers using headphones.  I'm currently using the Tritton AX720 decoder box with Denon D1100's but want to use a more beefier decoder/receiver so if I ever upgrade headphones I won't be forced to use ONLY 32ohm headphones AND I can use speakers when I want to.  I am looking at two receivers by Harman Kardon that feature Harman Headphone (which the HK representative said is their version of Dolby Headphone) and one with Dolby Headphone along with it.
> HK - AVR-2600 Harman Headphone
> HK - AVR-3600 Harman Headphone w/Dolby Headphone
> My main question is, could I get the 2600 and get the same sound or does Dolby Headphone make THAT much of a difference.  I don't want to get the one not having Dolby Headphone and (since I already have something with Dolby Headphone) be spoiled to that sound, BUT if I can't tell the difference I will get the 2600.  Thanks for all the info this thread has provided so far!


 
  It looks like Harman Headphone started out as Harman Kardon Logic 7, which was designed (for car audio systems) to take 2.0 channel music and expand it to a simulated 5.1 signal, like Dolby Pro Logic II.
  So they renamed Logic 7 to Harman Headphone, to take 2.0 channel sound and fakes a simulated 5.1 signal for the (2.0 channel) headphones. which does not make sense to me.
  Dolby Digital headphone is when a true 5.1 or 7.1 signal (source) is converted into a 2.0 channel signal that fools your ears (with headphones) into thinking it's hearing surround sound (Dolby Virtual Headphone).
  So the Harman Headphone appears to only work with a 2.0 channel source, movies and surround sound games are 5.1 or 7.1 channel sources.
  So get the receiver with Dolby Headphone.
  P.S. I'm new to this Harman Headphone feature, so feel free to double check what I've said.
   
  Check out the Yamaha RX-V667 & RX-A700 receivers, they come with Yamaha Silent Cinema, which appears to be more like Dolby Headphone, then the Harman Headphone.
  The RX-V667 (2 year warranty) & RX-A700 (3 year warranty) are the cheapest Yamaha receivers with the better speaker amplifiers.
  I'm the proud owner of the Yamaha RX-671.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My NFB 5 came in, and hooked it up. 

I'm gonna have to bookmark the Audio GD site, lol. 

First test, the filters. I honestly can't tell a difference between 1-9, lol. It's fresh out the box and I heard Audio-GD equipment needs to be warmed up for like an hour, so I dunno. We'll see.

High Gain is lol-worthy. My D7000 literally can't take anything above 9 o clock, and the knob starts at 7 o clock. At low gain, it's a lot like where I normally put it on my E9, 10-11 o clock.

The USB reads as SPDIF and can be volume controlled by the computer, that's a first for me. The E7 doesn't. I would prefer it didn't as I tend to accidentally lower volume at times.

I need to get used to it overall. Right now, I'd probably fail an A/B test vs the E9. That was what I thought would happen. I had a feeling SS vs SS amps wouldn't yield an appreciable difference.

One thing... I can tell this thing is pushing a LOT of power. It's well made, feels heavy and sturdy, and the volume knob feels AMAZINg next to the E9's plastic one. it has a weighty feel when you turn it.

One thing is obvious, the ACSS is a hair clearer than the stock opamp, so they weren't kidding when they say ACSS is better than using opamps, though it's a VERY MINOR difference. It is noticeable though. The stock opamp is being replaced by MOON, so I should be able to really see what op amp rolling does, as MOON is supposed to be warm and tube-like, vs the very neutral ACSS.

Make no mistake, this amp sounds awesome.

Also USB vs Optical: The optical seems less harsh on the treble. It seems less dynamic though. Sounds pretty uninvolved. USB sounds better to me.

edit: WOW, the Q701 on Low Gain needs the knob to be at almost 3 o clock! That thing really is hard to drive, lol. On High Gain: 10-11 o clock. I can effectively leave the knob at the same spot, and switch gains depending on headphones, though I'll have to set it to low gain anytime I unplug, so I don't blow up my D7000, lol.

Next order of business is to swap the opamps, and switch the line out to fixed, so I can A/B with the E9.

Anyone with the Q701 (Chico), can you take a pic of the 6.3mm plug? I have two, and both screw on perfectly. I'm trying to find out which is the stock one. One has a larger area next to the 'ribbed' area.


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> It looks like Harman Headphone started out as Harman Kardon Logic 7, which was designed (for car audio systems) to take 2.0 channel music and expand it to a simulated 5.1 signal, like Dolby Pro Logic II.
> So they renamed Logic 7 to Harman Headphone, to take 2.0 channel sound and fakes a simulated 5.1 signal for the (2.0 channel) headphones. which does not make sense to me.
> Dolby Digital headphone is when a true 5.1 or 7.1 signal (source) is converted into a 2.0 channel signal that fools your ears (with headphones) into thinking it's hearing surround sound (Dolby Virtual Headphone).
> So the Harman Headphone appears to only work with a 2.0 channel source, movies and surround sound games are 5.1 or 7.1 channel sources.
> ...


 


  Makes perfect sense and most likely what Harman is doing.  Good suggestions with the Yamaha receivers.  I see you have an impressive set of phones.  Does the Yamaha push them ok?  How would you rate Silent Cinema vs Dolby Headphone?  I keep reading a lot of good things about Silent Cinema so I'm very interested.  I will want to have the capability to push headphones all the way up to 250ohm.


----------



## t-800

What would you guys say are the best closed headphones for around $150 for gaming and just general use? I have been looking at the M-Audio Q40's but I would love to hear your suggestions.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My NFB 5 came in, and hooked it up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  I'm pretty sure that the USB module just sends S/PDIF to the normal DAC.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





t-800 said:


> What would you guys say are the best closed headphones for around $150 for gaming and just general use? I have been looking at the M-Audio Q40's but I would love to hear your suggestions.


 
   
  I've been way more than pleased with my $130 "Like New" Beyer 770-80s from Amazon in Battlefield 3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I put the MOON opamp into the NFB 5.

If there is a difference from stock, sure as hell could've fooled me. 

All this has done is convince me that opamps rolling is some placebo effect. It sounds almost the same as ACSS, VERY little difference. MOON was supposed to give a tube-like sound. I'm not getting that whatsoever. ACSS is still clearer, but MOON didn't sound any difference from stock opamp. Guess this was a $25 test that failed. I'll be sticking to ACSS. To anyone that gets the NFB 5, it's a great piece of equipment which I can recommend as an all in one solution. I'd save up and not buy any opamps or magical voodo. The ACSS connection is superior.

Unless you need to change the line out, I wouldn't ever bothering to open the case. the line out stock is set to variable, meaning whatever is connected to the line out is volume controlled by the NFB5, which I don't want since the line out is being fed to the E9 which has it's own volume control). I opened it up, and attached a supplied piece as labeled on the website to set my line out to fixed.

BTW, the DAC/HP button set to 3 and 4 is for the line out. 3 is for ACSS, and 4 is for OPAMP. Again, even with the E9, going from ACSS to Opamp Moon yields very little difference. ACSS is still better.

Okay, so quick comparison between NFB 5 vs E9. 

NFB 5 is definitely superior. HOWEVER, talking about a very VERY slight difference with the Q701. So don't expect miracles. You want DEFINITELY better, I suggest a new headphone over amps. The E9 sounds harsher and thinner, where the NFB 5 sounds thicker and more balanced. It is an upgrade, but not one that will have you jumping out of your seat. I'd say it's less than 10% better.

I can't directly A/B E7 vs NFB 5 dacs, as my E7's dock connection is broken. The NFB 5's DAC plays very nice with the E9 though.


----------



## Hiyono

Hi guys,
   
  I was thinking of upgrading my headset for PC games.  Mainly using for like League of Legends or a mmo and Vent or skype.  What I am currently doing is PC(USB)/PS3(optical) > Nuforce HDP > headphones or amp/speakers.
   
  I gave my friend my old creative headset.  Been reading how good the AKG K701s are and lucky I have a pair already.  I was wondering if anyone has an recommendations on microphones.  Either one I can put on the table and it wont get in the way or a clip one to my K701 wire.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I put the MOON opamp into the NFB 5.
> If there is a difference from stock, sure as hell could've fooled me.
> All this has done is convince me that opamps rolling is some placebo effect. It sounds almost the same as ACSS, VERY little difference. MOON was supposed to give a tube-like sound. I'm not getting that whatsoever. ACSS is still clearer, but MOON didn't sound any difference from stock opamp. Guess this was a $25 test that failed. I'll be sticking to ACSS. To anyone that gets the NFB 5, it's a great piece of equipment which I can recommend as an all in one solution. I'd save up and not buy any opamps or magical voodo. The ACSS connection is superior.
> Unless you need to change the line out, I wouldn't ever bothering to open the case. the line out stock is set to variable, meaning whatever is connected to the line out is volume controlled by the NFB5, which I don't want since the line out is being fed to the E9 which has it's own volume control). I opened it up, and attached a supplied piece as labeled on the website to set my line out to fixed.
> ...


 
  Variable line out mode lets it function as a Pre-amp.  Technically I should set mine to fixed, because my Promedia 2.1 has its own Preamp but I prefer using the NFB-5's knob.  I'm not sure how to read their output impedance for the DAC out but it almost looks like you could run reasonable speakers off it.  
   



hiyono said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I was thinking of upgrading my headset for PC games.  Mainly using for like League of Legends or a mmo and Vent or skype.  What I am currently doing is PC(USB)/PS3(optical) > Nuforce HDP > headphones or amp/speakers.
> 
> I gave my friend my old creative headset.  Been reading how good the AKG K701s are and lucky I have a pair already.  I was wondering if anyone has an recommendations on microphones.  Either one I can put on the table and it wont get in the way or a clip one to my K701 wire.


 
  I imagine those LCD-3's I see in your signature are no slouch in game either.  I notice you don't seem to have any virtualized surround taking place, which I don't think that LoL would benefit much from that sort of thing but MMO's might.  
   
  I don't think any table mics are usable on something like a coffee table so a clip on would probably be the way to go.  The Mod Mic is one to look at but I dunno if I'd stick a mod mic to an LCD-3.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bellsprout said:


> thanks for that! you may have saved me a few hundred $ there haha
> 
> does this mean that you can have a separate output devices for playback and recording?


 

 Upon further research, I've decided to take back my previous recommendation for a $25 card. Avoid the cheap Creative cards like the plague. Way too much rebranding/incentivizing of better cards for me to push you in that direction. Still works great on higher end cards though if you're willing to spend 2x as much, I guess I just lucked out by getting a true X-Fi card at a clearance price.
   
  Anyways, even the high end cards are noticeably cheaper than a mixamp if you're more of a PC guy.


----------



## bellsprout

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I put the MOON opamp into the NFB 5.
> If there is a difference from stock, sure as hell could've fooled me.
> All this has done is convince me that opamps rolling is some placebo effect. It sounds almost the same as ACSS, VERY little difference. MOON was supposed to give a tube-like sound. I'm not getting that whatsoever. ACSS is still clearer, but MOON didn't sound any difference from stock opamp. Guess this was a $25 test that failed. I'll be sticking to ACSS. To anyone that gets the NFB 5, it's a great piece of equipment which I can recommend as an all in one solution. I'd save up and not buy any opamps or magical voodo. The ACSS connection is superior.
> Unless you need to change the line out, I wouldn't ever bothering to open the case. the line out stock is set to variable, meaning whatever is connected to the line out is volume controlled by the NFB5, which I don't want since the line out is being fed to the E9 which has it's own volume control). I opened it up, and attached a supplied piece as labeled on the website to set my line out to fixed.
> ...


 

 you may wanna check out
http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_audio/ic_opamps/pdf/opamp_distortion.pdf
   
  opamps are so good nowadays that you can get 2 on a chip for <$1 and you're getting good performance at solid levels of quality control. the fact that discrete circuits _can be _theoretically superior is offset by the fact that you're taking a massive leap of faith that the discrete circuit design is theoretically sound, let alone exceeds op amp circuits. as far as discrete opamps go, opamps take the hassle out of circuit design because you can design around idealities like infinite open loop gain, no biasing current, etc. If I was designing a circuit to give good real world performance from an ideal design, I'd design around an opamp from a semiconductor manufacturer than a boutique audiophile manufacturer any day.


----------



## bellsprout

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Upon further research, I've decided to take back my previous recommendation for a $25 card. Avoid the cheap Creative cards like the plague. Way too much rebranding/incentivizing of better cards for me to push you in that direction. Still works great on higher end cards though if you're willing to spend 2x as much, I guess I just lucked out by getting a true X-Fi card at a clearance price.
> 
> Anyways, even the high end cards are noticeably cheaper than a mixamp if you're more of a PC guy.


 

 which true X_fi card do you recommend?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





bellsprout said:


> which true X_fi card do you recommend?


 

 I've been doing testing with my Fatal1ty Pro (picked it up for $20 after rebate about a year ago at my local B&M store). There's actually a well-hidden list of Creative cards that officially support "What U Hear" under Windows 7: http://support.creative.com/kb/showarticle.aspx?sid=87127 so any of these should work just fine. Haven't had any problems yet with my measly little $10 USB dongle in a few hours of CMSS + BF3/HD VLC testing, so I don't expect any problems from my E17 when the preorder finally comes through. With a Fatal1ty Pro porting DSP to an E17 DAC feeding my DT-770 Pros, I'm expecting big things 

 I expect there should be some higher end Creative cards floating around this forum at discount prices as I expect most folks here have moved on to superior DACs. I wish there was a solid cheap option, but I guess we can't have superior DSP + superior DAC and do it with a budget card to boot


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


 

 Now THAT'S a volume knob!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It feels AWESOME too. Best knob ever. Well... actually, I like the one on the Headzone. It was manual, but was actually digital...


----------



## Draygonn

I like the look of the audio gd stuff


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It looks sort of vintage-ish, and utalitarian, but with it's own aesthetic charm.

I'd have preferred something more stylish, but I'm quite happy with it. It screams quality when you have it in your hands.

Let's just say I've spent most of my time with the Q701 and the NFB 5 tonight. What a glorious combo. I already know the D7000 sounds amazing off it, but the D7000 sounds amazing off ANYTHING. The Q701 is more demanding, and it's why I wanted it to be the first real test of the NFB5, and it certainly passes.

I almost wish I never got rid of the DT990 to see how it sounds off the NFb 5. Oh well. Perhaps an ortho will be something I go for in the future, so though I'm a bit too happy with the Q701 at the moment.


----------



## hamzatm

Am i right in supposing a DAC improves the quality of the audio output?
   
  For gaming on the PC, if you want the best directional audio for fps games (and already have high end headphones), then what's the best part to buy? A good soundcard, or a good DAC, or what?
   
  Thanks


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> Am i right in supposing a DAC improves the quality of the audio output?
> 
> For gaming on the PC, if you want the best directional audio for fps games (and already have high end headphones), then what's the best part to buy? A good soundcard, or a good DAC, or what?
> 
> Thanks


 

 DACs improve the clarity, but not the directionality or positioning. You need the DSP features on a sound card for that.
   
I wrote a guide on PC gaming audio, particularly the APIs and middleware used. The general rule of thumb is that if whatever you play uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL, you're better off with a card based on the X-Fi DSP (and not those fake XtremeAudio cards that lack the DSP) because CMSS-3D Headphone provides a full 3D binaural sound and not just virtual 7.1, but if it's using XAudio2 or recent versions of FMOD, then all you get is virtual 7.1 and Dolby Headphone out of most other cards isn't really shortchanged by comparison.


----------



## torpedoPhil

Hey guys,
   
  I just bought the DT 770 Pro online twice, 80 and 250 Ohm Versions, to check them out myself because there isn't any store near me to test them. I will just send one back. I also bought the Astro Mixamp Pro.
  I'm also thinking about getting the AD700 which are even more problematic to test in a local store.
   
  My question would be which of the two (three cuz different Ohm versions) headphones will be the best for music experience. I read the first post about the gaming sound I think both would be great.
  But I'm not quite sure which one will be best for my kind of music preferences.
  I listen to a lot of different music genres so it must be an allrounder.
   
  As the bass seems to be less powerful from the AD700 would you consider it a con in the music aspect?
   
  I'm listening to it on my Laptop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT770 pro 80 is very bass heavy, whereas the pro 250 is supposedly very well balanced. They should give you two different sounds.

As for the AD700's being less powerful, I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's downright *non-existent*.

The Dt770's are closed, whereas the AD700 is open. They'll give you two very different sound signatures based off that alone.


----------



## torpedoPhil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 pro 80 is very bass heavy, whereas the pro 250 is supposedly very well balanced. They should give you two different sounds.
> As for the AD700's being less powerful, I wouldn't say that. I'd say it's downright *non-existent*.
> The Dt770's are closed, whereas the AD700 is open. They'll give you two very different sound signatures based off that alone.


 


  Thanks for the quick answer.
  So I guess I don't even have to bother buying the AD700 because I need them for gaming AND music?
  And I will just wait till the two dt 770 pros are here and decide which i like better for both gaming and music.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





torpedophil said:


> As the bass seems to be less powerful from the AD700 would you consider it a con in the music aspect?


 
   
  Yes.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





torpedophil said:


> I just bought the DT 770 Pro online twice, 80 and 250 Ohm Versions, to check them out myself because there isn't any store near me to test them. I will just send one back. I also bought the Astro Mixamp Pro.
> I'm also thinking about getting the AD700 which are even more problematic to test in a local store.
> My question would be which of the two (three cuz different Ohm versions) headphones will be the best for music experience. I read the first post about the gaming sound I think both would be great.
> But I'm not quite sure which one will be best for my kind of music preferences.
> ...


 
  Your in luck, I own all three headphones, the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm and DT770 Pro 250-Ohm are very close in sound.
  The 80-Ohm has a touch more bass and the 250-Ohm a little more clarity.
  The ATH-AD700 are bass light and I rarely use them, but they are good for things where vocals are important.


----------



## Hiyono

Quote: 





phos said:


> I imagine those LCD-3's I see in your signature are no slouch in game either.  I notice you don't seem to have any virtualized surround taking place, which I don't think that LoL would benefit much from that sort of thing but MMO's might.
> 
> I don't think any table mics are usable on something like a coffee table so a clip on would probably be the way to go.  The Mod Mic is one to look at but I dunno if I'd stick a mod mic to an LCD-3.


 


  Yeah, your right.  I dont have any virtualized surround equipment.  Was thinking of maybe saving for the Schiits DAC and Amps.  Maybe when they announce their new ones.  I dont really play many FPS.  Mainly rpgs and fighting games.
   
  I looked at the Mod mic.  It looks nice , tho your right.  I wouldnt want to stick anything onto the K701 or the LCD-3.  I did some searching and came across this.  Zalman zm-mic1  http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-Zm-Mic1-Sensitivity-Headphone-Microphone/dp/B00029MTMQ/ref=pd_cp_e_0
  Think I'll consider getting it and giving it a try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DON'T get the Zalman. Save your money, and get the Dealextreme clip-on...


 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080

Look how much it costs. I owned it (awaiting a second one), and it actually worked, whereas the Zalman I had picked up everything BUT my voice, and costs ten times as much.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





torpedophil said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I just bought the DT 770 Pro online twice, 80 and 250 Ohm Versions, to check them out myself because there isn't any store near me to test them. I will just send one back. I also bought the Astro Mixamp Pro.
> I'm also thinking about getting the AD700 which are even more problematic to test in a local store.
> ...


 

 I have the 770 Pro 80s and they're awesome for both music and gaming. Bear in mind the Beyers have one of the longest burn in times, I often see 200-300hrs quoted. I wonder if it's because they're so sturdy like a tank that they break in so slow...?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Assuming one believes in burn in.

I sure don't, and the DT770 Pro 80 was one of the cans I owned the longest.


----------



## Phos

I know there are a bunch of people with pro beyers in this thread, and I'm curious if the headband pad would fit over the HiFiMan headband, can anyone measure how long it is?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why would you do that? The Hifiman headband is the best thing ever. O_O Its like you're not wearing anything at all. With proper extension, the weight should be distributed perfectly where there shouldn't be any discomfort. Of course, this was with the HE-4, which weighs considerably less than the 5LE, 500, and 6.

Update on the NFB5.

It seems to change its signature the longer its on. It sounds downright smooth after a long session, which I actually DON'T like for the D7000. Sigh... 

Its also not an amp for those that listen to their cans at moderate to low levels, because everything sounds warm and rolled off at the treble range. 

It works incredibly well with the Q701, but I'm less enthusiastic with the D7000, which I still prefer off the E9.

Perhaps I will be getting the ODA for the D7000.

The NFB5 is great, don't get me wrong. Just, it works better on bright cans that have spare sparkle. Wish I could test out another DT990 or HE-4, but I'm headphone'd out. I have a feeling this amp would be perfect for Beyers, Ultrasones, and Grados.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Assuming one believes in burn in.
> I sure don't, and the DT770 Pro 80 was one of the cans I owned the longest.


 

 If strong winds in a canyon can loosen a steel bridge to the point of failure... I can believe in the idea that a tiny amount of motion can loosen up a tiny mechanical system just like a large amount of motion can loosen up a large mechanical system. You should really look up "Galloping Gertie" sometime. Just my two cents.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All that means nothing when I've personally owned those headphones and they sounded the same to me from hour one to when I sold them. Every single headphone I've owned sounded just as I remembered them from the beginning other than the M50s changing within the first hour, which was an oddity in it of itself.

I personally believe people WANT to believe in change, so they convince themselves of it. Just my two cents.

I love how burn in is so universal. It adds bass to bass shy phones, takes away bass from bloated phones, adds treble clarity to veiled cans, and removes harshness from treble heavy cans. That makes zero sense for one thing to add AND take away from the same area of sound, and ALWAYS beneficial towards whatever problem someone had with the sound.

So yeah, I call bull. Just IMHO.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All that means nothing when I've personally owned those headphones and they sounded the same to me from hour one to when I sold them. Every single headphone I've owned sounded just as I remembered them from the beginning other than the M50s changing within the first hour, which was an oddity in it of itself.
> I personally believe people WANT to believe in change, so they convince themselves of it. Just my two cents.
> I love how burn in is so universal. It adds bass to bass shy phones, takes away bass from bloated phones, adds treble clarity to veiled cans, and removes harshness from treble heavy cans. That makes zero sense for one thing to add AND take away from the same area of sound, and ALWAYS beneficial towards whatever problem someone had with the sound.
> So yeah, I call bull. Just IMHO.


 
  Yeah, I should probably just defer on this one. That and I don't want to derail the thread. I'm far more inclined to believe those who claim it happens when they leave their headphones alone for a while instead of listening to them while in the process of "burning in" though at that point I usually follow up by telling them it's because the very strong first impression of a new pair of headphones wore off. If it does happen there would be no way to tell among the thousands of kinds of psychological effects. It'd be interesting as a side project some day when I'm really bored to try and find out whether those who claim burn-in works claim it more often on lower ohm headphones (higher moving mass)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I used to leave my headphones burning with pink noise for weeks on end. Then I realized what a waste of time and energy it was, so I stopped and just enjoyed my headphones as they were. My first DT990 had a ridiculous amount of burn in on them. My newest ones sounded very much like my well burned in ones. Almost like I never got rid of them. My DT770 Pro 80s also had a lot of pink noise burn in. 

If you believe in burn in, that's all on you. For the sake of personal sanity and logical sense (as I mentioned earlier with burn in always being beneficial, never the opposite, and adding/taking away from the same frequencies depending on a headphone's shortcomings), I'll stick to the belief of it being placebo. If one very strong minded individual believes in something and argues it to the masses, his belief becomes factual for those wanting to believe. I approach things with an open mind, then accept or dismiss depending on personal testing.

With sound, its harder to prove/disprove, because mood and fatigue can/will alter sounds off a headphone.

Even with said DT770 Pro 80s, I think they sounded clear one hour, muffled the next.


----------



## torpedoPhil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DON'T get the Zalman. Save your money, and get the Dealextreme clip-on...
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
> Look how much it costs. I owned it (awaiting a second one), and it actually worked, whereas the Zalman I had picked up everything BUT my voice, and costs ten times as much.


 

  
   
  I appreciate everyones answer very much. Sounds like I should just be waiting for the two DT 770 and try which one sounds as much as i would like.
  I was also thinking about getting the Zalman ZM Mic1 because I read it everywhere that  they do a good job and I get them for under 5€ here on German Amazon.
  The site you posted is American so it would prolly add some to the price when I want it delivered to Germany. I also googled the name but without success (Xuanyuan XY-006).
  I guess the Zalman would be enough as I just need them to Skype with my gf and dad. I haven't used teamspeak and the like for ages.
   
  Do you think the Astro Mixamp Pro can handle the 250 Ohm DT 770? It's plugged into my Toshiba Laptop via USB. That's the only way I can do it until I finally have the money to build another desktop pc. 
  As I understand the only really downsight of using it via USB is that the game/voice sound knob doesn't do anything. As I said, that shouldn't be a problem for me. But the sound quality is still decent via USB isn't it? As I said it will take some time until I get a desktop pc with optical plugs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp can handle the all the Beyers, even the 600ohms. Not ideal, but not bad.

Also, PERSONAL experience with the Zalman. It was one of the worst gears I have ever purchased. I literally tossed it in the garbage even if I could return them. It was frustrating having to literally scream into the mic for it to work. 

Also, I believe Dealextreme is actually based in China. My first DX mic took almost a month to get to me.


----------



## Eric_C

^ I find a bit of channel imbalance on the MixAmp with my 250 Ohm Beyer, actually. And it definitely needs to be cranked up to about 1-2 o'clock to get listenable with Skyrim (PC).
   
  Then again, Skyrim's audio seems softer than most other games, for some reason. Definitely good quality, but softer.


----------



## Brandon7s

I've got that Zalman clip mic and I've had no problem with using it for voice communication with my PS3->Astro Mixamp-> K701, DT990Pro/250, or Alessandro MS2 configuration. It's not made of a very strong plastic, and after about 2 years one of the clip edges snapped off. Now I just drape it over my shoulder a little and it works just as well from there.
   
   By the way, I've not had any problem driving my DT990 Pro/250ohms OR my K701 with the Astro Mixamp without using an additional amp. I routinely use them both with the Voice dial set to 3-4 O'clock. At this position I normally turn the volume knob up to around 1-2 O'clock, sometimes a little more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eric, maybe your own Mixamp, because neither of mine had problems with the Beyers. Again,I assume people are powering them with the knob fully on game. With voice mixed in, volume takes a steep dive. Enough to warrant an extra amp, IMHO. 

Its funny. The Mixamp seems to push more power into the Q701 than the NFB5 on low gain. High gain though, the NFB5 is overkill on power.

edit: Looks like Low vs High gain on the NFB 5 are definitely yielding a different sound. High gain definitely retains treble compared to Low. Even with the D7000, looks like it's High Gain for me.

Thank god. I was almost disappointed.


----------



## neopac

Interesting OP ... I´ll add my 2ct
   
  I´ve recently started to play online fps games (again) and after some research and the insight that 5.1 Headsets are pretty much worth(use)less, i looked in the 3D emulating direction and bought the new SoundBlaster Recon 3D for my PS3.
   
  I´m pretty pleased with the results ... depending on the Audio quality the game delivers, the 3D positioning is very accurate ... now can actually hear if there´s a firefight one floor beneath me, or someone's coming up the stairs behind me, while i peacefully look out the window ... it´s so nice in BF3, in MW3 however the 3D thing doesn´t work well, as audio from this game is only medicore if at all.
   
  My current setup is PS3 --> SoundBlaster Recon3D --> M-Stage HPA1 (with OPA Earth, which is the detail king IMO) --> AKG K701
   
  From what i´ve read(not sure about that), the Recon3D chip is nothing special ... a low budget piece of hardware with a big marketing machine attached an the difference to a decent DAC ( EE MiniMax in my case ) is clearly audible. However, this 3D THXStudioPro-thing works satisfying and the whole system is more competitive than with the EE DAC, therefore the SoundBlaster is a keeper.
   
  ...but now i´m wondering if anybody had the chance to compare the THXStudioPro tech ( of the SoundBlaster ) to the Dolby Headphone tech ( of the Mixamp). Is there an audible difference?
   
  cheers
  neopac


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I may try the Recon 3D at some point in the future, if only to see how the virtual surround compatres to the Mixamp. Having used the Headzone, which for all intents and purposes should be clearly superior to Dolby Headphone in virtual surround emulation, it left me feeling that they were more similar at actual positional cues. Still looking for something to really bring out rear cues the way the binaural demo (mislabeled as Dolby Headphone on youtube) does. Neither the Headzone nor Mixamp can pull it off THAT well. It's funny though, front sounds didn't exactly sound right on this demo, sounds like he's doing a rainbow arch instead of going in front of you.

http://listverse.com/2008/02/29/top-10-incredible-sound-illusions/

#4.

Guys, is it weird that I STILL wanna hear the D2000? :frown:

as well as (in order of desire to hear):

T1
HE500
DT880 Pro (ONLY the Pro)
Pro 2900
Pro 900

And OMG, the D7000 just sounds so freaking awesome on the NFB5 now. I was going to give up... that gain switch... tricky person. HIGH ALL THE WAY.

edit: Just found something interesting what Audio GD says about their C-2.2



> ACSS input is always set at High gain regardless of the Gain button for the best sound level.




I would guess this is why I think my NFB5 sounds better on High Gain. I knew it!


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> DACs improve the clarity, but not the directionality or positioning. You need the DSP features on a sound card for that.
> 
> I wrote a guide on PC gaming audio, particularly the APIs and middleware used. The general rule of thumb is that if whatever you play uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL, you're better off with a card based on the X-Fi DSP (and not those fake XtremeAudio cards that lack the DSP) because CMSS-3D Headphone provides a full 3D binaural sound and not just virtual 7.1, but if it's using XAudio2 or recent versions of FMOD, then all you get is virtual 7.1 and Dolby Headphone out of most other cards isn't really shortchanged by comparison.


 


  Thanks, I've just read your guide it's awesome work btw!
   
  What API/middleware does Modern Warfare 3 and Battlefield 3 use? I've been google searching for days but I can't find the info anywhere.


----------



## Eric_C

MLE: Yeah, I may get an extra SS amp. Been thinking of the O2. Ah, maybe someday; it's a super low priority anyway.


----------



## maverickronin

I just came across this rather awesome post demonstrating how "double amping" can actually _improve_ SQ.  I thought it was relevant to this thread so here it is QFT.
   
   
  Quote: 





mikeaj said:


> It's not just volume.  You can easily improve performance by double amping, particularly if the limiting factor is the amplifier and not the D/A behind it.  Here's a few shots from an RMAA run I did a long while back, using 32 ohm headphones at 1V output.  This isn't the first time I posted some of these.
> 
> 
> _IMD SMPTE (7 kHz and 60 Hz test tones), THD (1 kHz test tone), crosstalk_
> ...


----------



## Phos

hamzatm said:


> Thanks, I've just read your guide it's awesome work btw!
> 
> What API/middleware does Modern Warfare 3 and Battlefield 3 use? I've been google searching for days but I can't find the info anywhere.





 
 


BF 3 probably uses OpenAL, it was lead developed on the PC and DICE has a history with the API. MW 3 is probably a premixed software game.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> Thanks, I've just read your guide it's awesome work btw!
> 
> What API/middleware does Modern Warfare 3 and Battlefield 3 use? I've been google searching for days but I can't find the info anywhere.


 

 I can tell you right now that both of those games use software audio. If CoD:MW3's like the CoD4 demo, it could be FMOD Ex rather than XAudio2, but still software audio with no binaural mixing option and virtual 7.1 at the most.
   
  Quote: 





phos said:


> BF 3 probably uses OpenAL, it was lead developed on the PC and DICE has a history with the API. MW 3 is probably a premixed software game.


 

 Oh, how I wish that were the case...but with the move to the Frostbite engine, DICE implemented some sort of XAudio2-based sound system. In other words, BF: Bad Company 2 and BF3 both use software audio. They seem proud of it, but at least with BF:BC2, I never had a great sense of directionality due to the way they pre-mixed the sounds.
   
  However, Battlefield 1942 and Battlefield: Vietnam use DirectSound3D, while Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 use OpenAL.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> I just came across this rather awesome post demonstrating how "double amping" can actually _improve_ SQ.  I thought it was relevant to this thread so here it is QFT.




Very interesting.

I always felt that double amping didn't do anything noticably negative to sound, and if it did, it was just bad with measurements, and not actually audible.

Just like running the E7's HPO to the E9's line in, which let's you use the E7's EQ with the E9's power. Worked well for the K701 (using the E7's EQ1 which adds a very subtle amount of warmth and low end, as well as making the treble just slightly smoother, which helped harsh headphones like the DT990).

Funny, the E17 has a pre-amp function with the E9 which literally is like what I did with the E7, except you don't have to undock it.



I'd like to see what effects the E9 does to the Q701 in measurements, because I'm telling you, the Q701 sounds damn good off it. It's not 8x the impedance of the E9, yet it sounds very stable to my ears. I think people are too caught up with measurements, and not what they can actually hear.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think people are too caught up with measurements, and not what they can actually hear.


 

 The trick is to find what you like, then check out its measurements.  That way you use that data to find more stuff you'll probably like.


----------



## livingplastic

I got my Beyerdynamic Dt 770 Pro 600 ohm headphones in.
   
  There is some damage to the Black foam on the inside of the cups. A chunk the size of a quarter cut in half is missing from the back of the left cup. Will this hurt anything? The white surface underneith looks fine and clean. Is that the driver or is the driver the darker part in the center of the white "membrane". Here is a picture of the right cup "other cup" http://img.iwascoding.com/3/2012/02/04/DB/C9430168E06940ED809B451BD4E78C98.jpg It has some wear but not that bad.
   
  Should I replace the black foam as soon as possible or is it ok to leave like that for a time?
   
  Are there fake copys made of the dt 770? It feels lighter and cheaper than I was expecting. I connected it to the xonar dg and it sounded good and then to the pioneer that had alot more power for the head phones. But I noticed some buzz on the right side during some of the bass.
   
  I connected them back up to my sound card and did a sound test on youtube of a scrolling bass sound test and the right side buzzes when there around 35hz. The left one is clear. Do I have a blown driver on the right side if it buzzes and scratches during certain freq ?
   
  SOB I was really starting to like these.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> I connected them back up to my sound card and did a sound test on youtube of a scrolling bass sound test and the right side buzzes when there around 35hz. The left one is clear. Do I have a blown driver on the right side if it buzzes and scratches during certain freq ?


 

 Probably some hair or dust stuck near the driver.  Disassemble them and clean them out and it should fix it.


----------



## livingplastic

Really? Hair or dust could cause a buzz and scratchy sound at certain freq? If thats the case do you have any advice for taking them apart and cleaning them. What would I be hearing if the right driver did have a problem or was blown.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pro 600? I wasn't aware Beyerdynamic had a 600ohm variant of the Pros.


----------



## maverickronin

If it was blown it would most likely sound bad all the time.
   
  The pads just pull off and the driver and the foam covering are held in by a small plastic retaining ring.  Just pry it out with a very thin flat head screwdriver.  After that the whole driver assembly should just fall out if you tip it over.  Give it a blast with some canned air or something and then put it pack together.  The ring will just pop back into place.
   
  Just don't use anything sharp like a knife.  You'll be liable to puncture the driver if it slips.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pro 600? I wasn't aware Beyerdynamic had a 600ohm variant of the Pros.


 

 They don't make it anymore but used to some time in the past.  They don't seem to be very common though.


----------



## livingplastic

Ok, I got the ear pad off and I used a q-tip to get the white dust that was under that. I see where your talking about with the plastic retaining ring. These are kinda hard to work on. The angle. I got them shorted up and I can bend them so the cups are resting on each other's side but it's putting alot of stress on the head band. Is this the right way to go at it or is there a better angle way of doing this? Thank you for your help!


----------



## livingplastic

Ok. I got the plastic ring off.. I see the black foam is attached to that. There is this weird black fine but coarse dust on the white outer part of the driver twords the outer rings that have this black grill pattern on them. In the center there is a shiny circle with a dome in the center. This has cotton like membrane over top of it and has a line going thru the center of it like its cut or just worn. There a few other lines , spots where this cotton membrane has worn throu.


----------



## livingplastic

The white paper part that circles the shiny dome looks like it has a spot that is lifting up in the center around the shiny dome. I don't know if thats important but I thought I'd put that up as well. Ok... now I'll tip the cup over and see what I can do from there. So far I got all that black coarse dust stuff off of the top by drying my lips and blowing lightly. I wish I had one of those camera lens cleaners that has the brush and the and blower thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This isn't exactly the right thread for your problems. O_O


----------



## livingplastic

Hmmm. Ya your right, didn't think about that. Not sure where to go from here.
   
  I got the driver out and seen a single black hair thing on the back of the driver but everything else looks really clean now. Not sure what to do.


----------



## livingplastic

Sorry about hijacking the thread. I've started looking on my own for other people having this problem and there solutions and there is alot of success with the hair removal theory. It may have been the black dust that was on top of the paper filter of mine. I'm going to bring home my can of air from the shop and blow it out before I put it back to geather.


----------



## tdockweiler

Tonight out of boredum I tested all my headphones with gaming since I just got in an HD-580.
   
  HD-580 failed to impress me with gaming. Has lots of mid-bass, fairly clear sound, but a very small soundstage out of any amp. It's sub-bass is comparable to the Q701 and not very good. I would say it's slightly better than the HD-598 for anything with lots of sub-bass. 
   
  What shocked me tonight is that I put on the KRK KNS-8400 and I heard all this sub-bass that previously felt almost non-existent on the HD-580 and Q701. In fact, I didn't decide to compare any headphones until I put on the 8400. Lots of deep rumbling bass. What the heck? And they say these don't have any bass? Uh huh.
   
  The sound of the 8400 is more immersive, detailed and clearer than the Q701. Better bass, but not as much mid-bass and a much smaller soundstage. Mids are definitely more forward and this is immediately apparent. When using specific guns with the 8400 the sound is somewhat ear piercing.
   
  I switched to the KNS-6400 and it was less clear, but had more mid-bass. Sub-bass was very similar, but the shots from weapons were less piercing, but not by much.
   
  I think for those that ONLY use a headphone for gaming and don't need something open, the KNS-8400 is every bit as good, if not BETTER than the Q701 for gaming. It's just not as comfortable. Skyrim is pretty amazing with the 8400.
   
  The HD-598 had a larger soundstage than the HD-580 without any doubt, but it might be slightly less clear. It was very hard to tell since the HD-580 had a large mid-bass hump. My pair also has a huge upper mids peak.
   
  Since I'm bored, here's a few rankings based on a couple hours of testing:
   
  Sub-bass (most to least):
   
  Panasonic HTF-600 (Severely bloated sub-bass, yet very forward mids. Sound clarity isn't too bad for $30)
  Koss Pro DJ 100 (no mid-bass hump, so it does not effect the mids. These have very very good bass for a cheap headphone)
  KRK KNS-8400 (surprised)
  KRK KNS-6400
  AKG K601
  AKG Q701 (difference between the sub-bass of the K601 and Q701 is extremely minor)
  Sennheiser HD-580
  Sennheiser HD-598
  AKG K240 Studio
  Koss A/250 (sounded really weird with gaming)
   
  sound clarity (very important for me):
   
  KRK KNS-8400 (no contest really)
  AKG Q701
  AKG K601
  KRK KNS-6400
  HD-580 / HD-598 (this was a hard one and will need more testing)
   
  Treble quantity (most to least):
   
  KRK KNS-8400
  AKG Q701
  AKG K601
  KRK KNS-6400
  HD-598
  HD-580
   
  Soundstage size:
   
  AKG Q701
  HD-598
  AKG K601
  HD-580
  KRK KNS-8400
  KRK KNS-6400
   
  Most balanced sounding (most to least):
   
  HD-598 (don't ask me how, but that's what my ears hear)
  KRK KNS-6400 (one of the most natural sounding headphones to me)
  AKG Q701 (nothing jumps out at me at all ever..bad music does make it sound less balanced, but not the headphones fault)
  KRK KNS-8400 (pretty balanced, but seems like it has a slight upper mids peak? Not too bad)
  AKG K601 (weird upper mids and lower treble peak perhaps)
  HD-580 (mid-bass hump and forward upper mids)
   
  Detail level:
   
  KRK KNS-8400 (no contest..has the rest beat easily)
  AKG Q701
  KRK KNS-6400
  AKG K601
  HD-598 (this one is tough, could be higher than the K601)
   
  Personal favorites for gaming:
   
  1) AKG Q701 (I hated the K702 for gaming and always used the K601 a year ago)
  2) K601 (somehow with gaming it sounds darker than the HD-598?!)
  3) HD-598
  4) KRK KNS-8400
  5) KRK KNS-6400 (less treble and sub-bass than the 8400 IMO, but more forward mids  and less accurate soundstage. It also has more mid-bass)
   
  I generally don't like closed headphone for gaming, but the KNS-8400 is a good alternative to the Q701 for those on a budget. The 6400 is a good alternative for the K601!
   
  For those that can't afford a Q701, another nice alternative to the Q701 is the Sony SA3000. It's quite bass light though and has some forward upper mids. It's fairly cheap.
   
  I'm also a huge fan of the Audio Technica ATH-AD2000 for gaming, but it's way overkill. Has some similarities to the SA3000 to my ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd probably go with the Q701 due to better soundstage. I like them big.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I can tell you right now that both of those games use software audio. If CoD:MW3's like the CoD4 demo, it could be FMOD Ex rather than XAudio2, but still software audio with no binaural mixing option and virtual 7.1 at the most.
> 
> 
> Oh, how I wish that were the case...but with the move to the Frostbite engine, DICE implemented some sort of XAudio2-based sound system. In other words, BF: Bad Company 2 and BF3 both use software audio. They seem proud of it, but at least with BF:BC2, I never had a great sense of directionality due to the way they pre-mixed the sounds.
> ...


 


   
 Dang so from what I found out I assume that means it doesn't matter what sound card I get (unless I want dolby/cmss3d)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He ain't kidding. I was NEVER impressed with any of the Battlefield games's directional cues. The quality of the sound is great, but there is almost no real sense of directionality, regardless of settings.


----------



## hamzatm

What I mean is the sound card won't improve or affect the positional accuracy or depth of the sounds, only improve quality, etc?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He ain't kidding. I was NEVER impressed with any of the Battlefield games's directional cues. The quality of the sound is great, but there is almost no real sense of directionality, regardless of settings.


 


   
 Ah OK lol. In your thread I think you found CoD 4 to have excellent positional cues, especially noticeable with quality headphones? Hmm, I'm thinking my search for a gaming sound card is pretty much futile!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, CoD4 and especially MW2 had some amazing sense of directionality in multiplayer. BLOPS does too, assuming you are using Ninja Pro, but its not as good as the former two. MW3 doesn't impress me soundwise. Can't soundwhore in that game like the others.


----------



## Caphel

I am looking for a new set of headphones.  I had the AD700s for a few years and they have served me very well but I am now looking for an upgrade.  The AD700s have been very comfortable and I have tried some AD900s but the drivers seem to touch my ears and they are not nearly as comfortable.
   
  At the moment I am considering two headphones.  The Q701 or the DT880 Pro 250ohm.  The main uses are gaming and music.  My music taste varies greatly and covers loads of genres.  At the start of this guide the DT880 Premium was rated pretty well but some comments were made about the positional audio, is that true of the DT880 Pro as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's something I wish I had the answer to, because I've been eyeing the DT880 Pro for awhile. The DT880 is more to my liking for music than the Q701, but the reverse is true for gaming. Still, I feel that they are close in quality for music, but the Q701 definitely wins for gaming. In any case, the Beyers don't have the deepest cups, so your ears will touch the padding in front of the drivers. I don't find that uncomfortable one bit, whereas the AD700s relatively naked drivers shocked me once in a while. Going from the AD700 to the Q701 would be a very clear upgrade, as I feel it is the truest upgrade to the AD700.



In other news:



So I've been A/B-ing the NFB5 with the E9 (both running off the NFB5's DAC obviously), and it's literally too close too call for the D7000. I'm damn certain that at the same decibel level, I would fail blind A/B tests everytime. So even though the E9 has a high output impedance, which isn't ideal for the Denons, i honestly can't hear anything impacting performance. It's just good music with either amp.

The Q701 sounds just slightly more fluid off the NFB5, where it sounds a little dryer off the E9, but the difference is small.

Again, the output impedance of the E9 should be negative affecting both headphones in comparison to the low impedance of the NFB5, yet it sounds too close too call.

I'm not one of those to fall for new toy syndrome. If I hear CLEAR differences, I'd say it. I'm not. They are both great sounding amps.

If anything is different is that the drier tone of the E9 makes it more analytical, where the NFB5 is more musical, just slightly so.

So all in all, I'd say the NFB5 is for those that want clearly more power than the E9 for some hard to drive cans, but that the differences aren't gonna be jarring for headphones that they both can handle well.

Of course, people here on Head-fi always go for the more expensive stuff and always say it's better than their older equipment, but I wouldn't BS you guys with that hyperbole. If you have an E9, be happy. It sounds great. As far as SS amps go, I doubt you'll find something to REALLY blow it away in comparison in the logically affordable price range. I'd just look for something with a clear coloring of sound if you want different, like a tube amp.

edit: I might have to rethink what I said about the Q701s.... they might actually be better for me now over both the DT880s AND 990s. Just something about them that is just damn awesome.

There is no glaring flaw with them. Seriously, they're just good. Where the DT990s get a bit screechy in the treble, the Q701 just sings happily. The bass AND mids are pretty damn good, as well. The only drawback being sub bass isn't as emphasized as what I'm used to, yet it's not something that can offend the ears like the DT990's treble. The Q701 sounds so rich, and musical. Just not what I expected. AT ALL.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





caphel said:


> I am looking for a new set of headphones.  I had the AD700s for a few years and they have served me very well but I am now looking for an upgrade.  The AD700s have been very comfortable and I have tried some AD900s but the drivers seem to touch my ears and they are not nearly as comfortable.
> At the moment I am considering two headphones.  The Q701 or the DT880 Pro 250ohm.  The main uses are gaming and music.  My music taste varies greatly and covers loads of genres.  At the start of this guide the DT880 Premium was rated pretty well but some comments were made about the positional audio, is that true of the DT880 Pro as well?


 

 What source(s) are you going to be plugging the headphones into?


----------



## torpedoPhil

Aloha,
   
  I've just received my Astro Mixamp Pro this morning. Still waiting for those two 770 Pros.
  I plugged the mixamp into my laptop via usb and my current headset (plantronics gamecom 777) into the included y-adapter and then into the headset jack.
  I dont hear any difference between Dolby on or off. Is that because I have it plugged in via usb?
   
  I have a little soundcard for my gamecom 777 (because it is the USB version http://gamingweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/plantronics-gamecom-777-usb-headset.jpg  ) and when i use that there is a very clear difference between stereo and dolby headphone. (there's a little on/off switch on the side of the soundcard)
   
  I don't hear any difference now when i turn it on and off ingame.
  I just plugged the mixamp in and selected them as dedicated sound in Win7.
  Do I have to install something or make some other changes?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You must have it plugged in via optical or digital coaxial (for those who don't know, the Pro has a digital coax input).


----------



## torpedoPhil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You must have it plugged in via optical or digital coaxial (for those who don't know, the Pro has a digital coax input).


 


  How can I acchieve that on my Laptop without a toslink? Is there an adapter for that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think you're in luck. The main function of the Mixamp's USB was for chat purposes. It's been mentioned that the Mixamp doesn't do DH through the USB. Sorry.

They really should add the necessary drivers for USB function in future Mixamps. It just makes sense. PC Headsets with DH have been able to do it through USB for the longest time. Just lazy on Astro's part.

They cut corners on the stupidest things, like only having one optical input... just ridiculous.


----------



## torpedoPhil

Damn it, I will send the Mixamp back then. Do you have any recommendation what to get? The DT 770 Pros will be here in a few days. I just want to enjoy awesome stereo sound for music over my laptop and surround sound for games (mostly fps). Should I get the Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1? Or are there better soundcards that improve the stereo quality as well?


----------



## torpedoPhil

Would this thing work? http://www.amazon.de/Adapter-Toslink-Buchse-optischer-Stecker/dp/B000LB65XO


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound

Ask here, Nameless knows all about PC gaming with virtual surround. I know nothing. Personally I'd go with probably the Asus Essence STX or Xonar DG... whatever had DH.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He ain't kidding. I was NEVER impressed with any of the Battlefield games's directional cues. The quality of the sound is great, but there is almost no real sense of directionality, regardless of settings.


 

 IDK what they did, but on PC BF3>>BFBC2. I've been really pleased with my Beyers and CMSS. Seems pretty smooth to me, dunno if it's true binaural though.


----------



## torpedoPhil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
> Ask here, Nameless knows all about PC gaming with virtual surround. I know nothing. Personally I'd go with probably the Asus Essence STX or Xonar DG... whatever had DH.


 


  Ok, thanks. Those two soundcards are internal, I would need an external soundcard because I'm using a laptop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, sorry. I dunno, TBH. I'm sure Nameless can help.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
> Ask here, Nameless knows all about PC gaming with virtual surround. I know nothing. Personally I'd go with probably the Asus Essence STX or Xonar DG... whatever had DH.


 
   
  I think the Xonar does DH, the X-Fi cards do CMSS. Depends on what games you're playing really, I personally use my 770s with a X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro I picked up on sale a while back to good effect. As an added plus of the high end X-Fis I also came up with a trick to use the X-Fi DSP with an E17 DAC over USB. Now if only I could find an E17 in stock somewhere and buy one...
   
  If you're on a laptop, maybe you could find an ExpressCard soundcard that does optical out? Just a thought...


----------



## Mcarter3

Have you A/B'd the E7 DAC with the DAC in the NFB-5?
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's something I wish I had the answer to, because I've been eyeing the DT880 Pro for awhile. The DT880 is more to my liking for music than the Q701, but the reverse is true for gaming. Still, I feel that they are close in quality for music, but the Q701 definitely wins for gaming. In any case, the Beyers don't have the deepest cups, so your ears will touch the padding in front of the drivers. I don't find that uncomfortable one bit, whereas the AD700s relatively naked drivers shocked me once in a while. Going from the AD700 to the Q701 would be a very clear upgrade, as I feel it is the truest upgrade to the AD700.
> In other news:
> So I've been A/B-ing the NFB5 with the E9 (both running off the NFB5's DAC obviously), and it's literally too close too call for the D7000. I'm damn certain that at the same decibel level, I would fail blind A/B tests everytime. So even though the E9 has a high output impedance, which isn't ideal for the Denons, i honestly can't hear anything impacting performance. It's just good music with either amp.
> The Q701 sounds just slightly more fluid off the NFB5, where it sounds a little dryer off the E9, but the difference is small.
> ...


----------



## Caphel

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> What source(s) are you going to be plugging the headphones into?


 

 They will be plugged into an E9 and that is connected up to a D2X.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mcarter3 said:


> Have you A/B'd the E7 DAC with the DAC in the NFB-5?




I haven't A/B'd them because my E7's dock input is broken so I can't dock it or use the L7 for line out. I'd only be able to test the DACs like:

NFB5 DAC + E7 Amp (through the line in on the E7)

vs

E7 DAC + E7 Amp

I'll try to do this soon enough. The E7's internal amp isn't much of an amp at all, so it won't be the best method of testing the strength of the DACs.


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DON'T get the Zalman. Save your money, and get the Dealextreme clip-on...
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
> Look how much it costs. I owned it (awaiting a second one), and it actually worked, whereas the Zalman I had picked up everything BUT my voice, and costs ten times as much.


 


  Will this mic pickup my voice if I have it clipped to my shirt.  The Zalman failed at this and even the xbox360 mic has to be pretty much on my lips to be heard.  If I could have a mic like the one you recommended above, I'll order it.  I use Denon's but the headset around the neck is getting annoying when the mic slips and I have to constantly adjust.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> What I mean is the sound card won't improve or affect the positional accuracy or depth of the sounds, only improve quality, etc?


 

 What I meant by that was that with CMSS-3D Headphone performing on Dolby Headphone's level because it's only getting pre-mixed 7.1 to begin with, I honestly can't tell enough of a difference between either to recommend one over the other, and since the reverb/chorus/occlusion/etc. effects that were generally done with hardware-accelerated EAX in the past are now done in software, Creative loses a lot of their gaming advantages. Thus, you could still get a Xonar DG at $30 (possibly even less) and still be very well off.
   
  However, you still get a positional advantage with CMSS-3D Headphone and/or Dolby Headphone in those games over plain stereo, because now you can tell apart front and rear. Very useful if you want to know if someone's about to jam a knife in your back.
  
  Now, as for the older Battlefield games (1942 through 2142), it's not even close, since CMSS-3D Headphone gives a full binaural 3D presentation with the positional information the DirectSound3D and OpenAL APIs provide, while Dolby Headphone still only uses virtual 7.1 and loses a good sense of height, and they also make liberal use of hardware-accelerated EAX and whatnot.
   
  Quote: 





torpedophil said:


> Ok, thanks. Those two soundcards are internal, I would need an external soundcard because I'm using a laptop.


 

 External sound card? This just got really tricky. You're probably not going to get anything with a proper hardware DSP on it, with all effects generated in software.
   
  On the cheap side, there's the Xonar U3 at $40. On the more expensive side...the Recon3D USB seems somewhat promising, but $130 is quite a tall price, and I'm not even sure if it's that much better than the USB and ExpressCard X-Fi products for gaming (which are all XtremeAudio-esque "fakes" as far as I'm concerned).


----------



## mbelly

Hi,
  Is there a point of buying K701 or even AD700 fot hardcore gaming only for Battlefield 3 (and maybe future fps)?


----------



## Drastion

Got my pair of q701 and am liking them so far. Just need to update my music from all 128 mp3s.


Has anyone an idea what is going on with astro? I have been wanting to order a 5.8 mixamp so I can get some more use out of my new toys. The problem is they have been out ove stock for a month now. They brining out a new model and clearing the old inventory.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

New model? First I've heard of it. Don't see any mention of a new model.


----------



## Drastion

Not trying to start a rumor, just trying to figure out what is going on with them. Bought some gift cards/coupons from them before christmass. Been waiting so long I am considering getting a.creative recon 3d but dont want to waste the money I already spent.

What will an amp actually do for the sound of the q701?

I am trying to figure these things out. I know they are not bassy headphones but there doesnt seem to be much of any. I am thinking its because its my first real open headphone. So maybe I am just used to the sound pushed into my head rather than being around it.


----------



## Phos

Astro's not that a big company (unless they're a subsidiary), they can't keep big stock on hands, they're likely waiting for their suppliers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chicolom, and those who got Q701s, check to see what your serial numbers are (it's on the headphone itself) Mine is 07260. I would guess that anything above Chicolom's will have the difference in sound between the K701 and Q701. Not stating this as fact, but I believe older Q701s probably were identical to the K701 in sound.

BTW, the Mass Effect 3 demo with the D7000.... SCHWEETNESS ALMIGHTY.

Also tried the Binary Domain demo. Game looks so ace.

Can't wait to hook up the Vita to the E9 for some epic portable gaming. XD


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, and those who got Q701s, check to see what your serial numbers are (it's on the headphone itself) Mine is 07260. I would guess that anything above Chicolom's will have the difference in sound between the K701 and Q701. Not stating this as fact, but I believe older Q701s probably were identical to the K701 in sound.


 


  Mine is 04165.  I have no idea if there's been a change in them though.  The different impressions for them already existed before I tried them, that's the reason I looked into them to begin with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have EVER bought them without your impressions on them. You were 99.9% of the reason I went for them. Trust me when I tell you I can't thank you enough. I'm in complete love with them.


guys:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEs74y7hEFI[/VIDEO]

The song used on the Binary Domain trailer. Absolutely amazing.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have EVER bought them without your impressions on them. You were 99.9% of the reason I went for them. Trust me when I tell you I can't thank you enough. I'm in complete love with them.


 


  Haha, good to know - I'm glad those impressions helped sway you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I really wanted to verify they were actually different.  I didn't want to go off recommending the Q701 to people who had already heard the K70x if it was just going to end up sounding exactly the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I love them too.  I sure hope AKG doesn't discontinue them or anything, in case I need to get another pair if I wear these ones out


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Mine is 04165.  I have no idea if there's been a change in them though.  The different impressions for them already existed before I tried them, that's the reason I looked into them to begin with.


 

 The graphs at Headroom have showed the Q701s with a little more bass than the K701s since the Qs were released.  I've seen some photos somewhere that showed the Qs were damped a little differently than the Ks as well.  That mean you could probably get some extra bass form the Ks with some simple mods if you pick up an older pair for cheap or something.  You could probably squeeze more bass out of the Qs if you wanted too.


----------



## rabinzero

I can't believe how addicted to this thread I am!  As someone completely satisfied with my Denon D1100, but looking to get open cans in the near future, I'm researching the crap out of headphones.  I LOVE the sound Denon produces so I'm heavily considering the Denon D7000's because a lot of reviews say they do allow for a good mount of outside noise to come in and I need that for when I need to hear my wife calling me in another room.  Only issue I have is they don't look to have a 3.5mm input jack and I have a powerful enough decoder box where I don't want to get another amp just to be able to run these.
   
  Other phones I'm considering are PC 360 and DT990's but I would really like to stick with Denon as I am just a huge fan of their sound as a whole.  I may wind up getting the PC 360's just for gaming with friends, but I really want the Denon D7000's!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The graphs at Headroom have showed the Q701s with a little more bass than the K701s since the Qs were released.*  I've seen some photos somewhere that showed the Qs were damped a little differently than the Ks as well.*  That mean you could probably get some extra bass form the Ks with some simple mods if you pick up an older pair for cheap or something.  You could probably squeeze more bass out of the Qs if you wanted too.


 


  If you talking about the little foam pads under the Q701 badge and/or the foam right behind the ear pads, those don't play much of a factor....
   
  Have you seen different photos of the internals?


----------



## maverickronin

I think that was it but I don't remember the details.  It wasn't really something I was following too closely.  Have you tested those foam discs or something?
   
  Maybe I could try something similar with my K601...


----------



## Drastion

The little sticker on the inside says 03893

im also trying to get a few new headphones for me and friends.

creative live - budget pc headphones for dolby/cssm

denon 1100 - $100 musical headphone with decent bass for rocksmith

ultrasone 750 - portable easy to drive headphone for music and ps vita and to see what the s logic fuss is about. Hopefully theses are not massively bassy just something with a little kick.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I think that was it but I don't remember the details.  It wasn't really something I was following too closely.  Have you tested those foam discs or something?
> 
> Maybe I could try something similar with my K601...


 


  Ya, I tested it.  Didn't make much difference.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/537241/akg-k701-k702-vs-akg-q701/120#post_8133434


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Ya, I tested it.  Didn't make much difference.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/537241/akg-k701-k702-vs-akg-q701/120#post_8133434


 

 Hmm...
   
  Maybe its something different then.  I see some changes in Tyll's graphs that _could _indicate driver tweaks.


----------



## thefranklin

drastion said:


> Not trying to start a rumor, just trying to figure out what is going on with them. Bought some gift cards/coupons from them before christmass. Been waiting so long I am considering getting a.creative recon 3d but dont want to waste the money I already spent.
> What will an amp actually do for the sound of the q701?
> I am trying to figure these things out. I know they are not bassy headphones but there doesnt seem to be much of any. I am thinking its because its my first real open headphone. So maybe I am just used to the sound pushed into my head rather than being around it.




What source are you using? My apparently easy to drive Samson's have zero bass plugged into the back of my motherboard and cell phone, but they sounded great when using my receiver and pretty good with my iPod. Try a few different ones if you can.


----------



## Drastion

Thefranklin

I am hoping that is what it is. I definetly dont have a volume problem. When I hook it into my laptop I only have it set to 3-4 out of 25. All I have is the laptop, cell, a $100 htib rca receiver, and a old sony cd player. When I put the bass boost on in the cd player it fills the headphones really well.

I have a objective2 amp built for me. But had the guy hold onto it so I could have the dac built into it when it is released.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/570348/petition-for-a-video-games-lounge-subforum

To all my gaming buddies here, please vote for a gaming sub-forum here on this site! We all would have personal interests for this, where we would be ableto actually discuss our fave games at length. It wouldbe a huge win for us gamers, and would keep me here on Head-fi even more.

I will be adding this petition to my sig as well as the first post when I get home. Thanks in advanced.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thefranklin said:


> What source are you using? My apparently easy to drive Samson's have zero bass plugged into the back of my motherboard and cell phone, but they sounded great when using my receiver and pretty good with my iPod. Try a few different ones if you can.




Uhh, the back of motherboards tend to be for actual speakers, not headphones. I'm seriously surprised people are doing this.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, the Mass Effect 3 demo with the D7000.... SCHWEETNESS ALMIGHTY.
> 
> Also tried the Binary Domain demo. Game looks so ace.


 


  I see what you mean about the mass effect demo.  Those reapers made some juicy bass noises when they moved and shot stuff.
   
  That Binary Domain demo was interesting.  _Very_ Japanese and surprisingly polished.  The menus remind me so much armored core games.  The robots looked a little lame, like iRobots instead of terminators.  And What with the french robot and and Gorilla robot at the end?  Unnecessary...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I love about Sega, they tend to publish some interesting games that break from the norm. I actually love that Binary Domain has robots more like I Robot. Makes it more convincing that these robots were once our own creations that we could relate with. Terminator type robots are just that, killers first.

I added the petition to the thread and sig. I hope all of you are on board and VOTE!


----------



## Drastion

I agree with you about sega I love the look of valkyria chronicles. Maybe four will come out on the vita.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, the Mass Effect 3 demo with the D7000.... SCHWEETNESS ALMIGHTY.


 


  Oh yeah. My tactile transducer was rocking my chair to hell. The demo had some serious bass in it.


----------



## mafiamike

Well I spent my hard earning cash on a lyr yesterday. I placed in my order so I will probally receive it this week sometime. What cables do I need for the mixamp>lyr or whats the best way to hook them up? thanks.


----------



## Rebel975

The Lyr will come with a 1/8" to dual RCA cable. Run the headphone out on the Mixamp to the Lyr with the supplied cable.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Did the PC360 give you a hum feedback?  Mine won't stop.... no one has grumbled about it online because its very soft but one guy complained today saying it was loud...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't get any hum with the PC360. Adjusting the volume on the cup sometimes had static like noise, but that is common with certain volume knobs (the E9 is notorious for that).

As for the Lyr... not sure that's the most ideal amp to attach to the Mixamp, as it adds a considerable amount of hum with certain headphones, which in addition to the Mixamp's hiss may make it a bit noisy, though that would only be an issue with easier to drive headphones.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> I can't believe how addicted to this thread I am!  As someone completely satisfied with my Denon D1100, but looking to get open cans in the near future, I'm researching the crap out of headphones.  I LOVE the sound Denon produces so I'm heavily considering the Denon D7000's because a lot of reviews say they do allow for a good mount of outside noise to come in and I need that for when I need to hear my wife calling me in another room.  Only issue I have is they don't look to have a 3.5mm input jack and I have a powerful enough decoder box where I don't want to get another amp just to be able to run these.
> 
> Other phones I'm considering are PC 360 and DT990's but I would really like to stick with Denon as I am just a huge fan of their sound as a whole.  I may wind up getting the PC 360's just for gaming with friends, but I really want the Denon D7000's!


 

 You do realize they make 1/4th to 1/8th adapters? http://www.amazon.com/Generic-3-5mm-Adapter/dp/B003VGRDUK/ref=pd_sim_e_2 ... I think that's what your after.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have that same one. I'd advise you to attach that to a small 3.5mm extension cable, because that plug is bulky and can damage inputs. I use a small extension cable that came with my first Mixamp.

If you want the simplest route, the Grado adapter is a 6.3mm to 3.5mm cable but its pricey.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have that same one. I'd advise to attach that to a small 3.5mm extension cable, because that plug is bulky and can damage inputs. I use a small extension cable that came with my first Mixamp.
> If you want the simplest route, *the Grado adapter is a 6.3mm to 3.5mm cable but its pricey*.


 


  I was complaining about it's price until I got it in the mail. That thing is high quality and could be run over by a tank. Probably will last me forever.
  My amp only takes 3.5mm plug (due to it's size) and it's so annoying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Someone posted a good alternative but I forgot the link.

In any case, cheapest route is getting that gold adapter and a small 3.5mm female to male extension cable.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Someone posted a good alternative but I forgot the link.
> In any case, cheapest route is getting that gold adapter and a small 3.5mm female to male extension cable.


 

 I did.  Link.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bah, It'd still cost $10. I would rather spends the extra $5 for the Grado one. Lol, its funny how I get stingy for stuff costing a few bucks, but go all out for the expensive stuff. Priorities... lol.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I switched the control to the newer one and it went away. 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I didn't get any hum with the PC360. Adjusting the volume on the cup sometimes had static like noise, but that is common with certain volume knobs (the E9 is notorious for that).
> As for the Lyr... not sure that's the most ideal amp to attach to the Mixamp, as it adds a considerable amount of hum with certain headphones, which in addition to the Mixamp's hiss may make it a bit noisy, though that would only be an issue with easier to drive headphones.


----------



## High Fidelity

Mad Lust Envy, which do you think is better or prefer for FPS, i.e, MW3, the AKG K701 or Q701? Anyone else please chime in if you've used both these cans for FPS. If I bought one of them I would try it with the mixamp only to see how it drived them. Would using the mixamp only reduce the soundstage? What's the lowest price amp I could use that would work well with the AKGs and the mixamp? I've seen the FiiO E9 mentioned, but am curious what the sound properties would be.


----------



## thefranklin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Uhh, the back of motherboards tend to be for actual speakers, not headphones. I'm seriously surprised people are doing this.


 


 1.  Everything else plugs into the back of my computer.  I don't like wires sticking out the front or sides of my computer.
  2.  My computer is on the floor, therefore the input jack / cord could get caught on my chair or kicked.
  3.  Every search I found said to use the back input due to interference issues.  I have yet to see anyone mention that the front is better, and have found little evidence that they are different. 
  4.  My front audio port isn't working and I am too lazy to take apart my computer to fix it.  I guarantee you this is the main reason I don't use it, but having the cord right next to where my chair rolls is a compelling argument.
   
  Still not a long term solution because the sound is worse, and occasionally I might want speakers hooked up.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





high fidelity said:


> Mad Lust Envy, which do you think is better or prefer for FPS, i.e, MW3, the AKG K701 or Q701? Anyone else please chime in if you've used both these cans for FPS. If I bought one of them I would try it with the mixamp only to see how it drived them. Would using the mixamp only reduce the soundstage? What's the lowest price amp I could use that would work well with the AKGs and the mixamp? I've seen the FiiO E9 mentioned, but am curious what the sound properties would be.


 


  I prefer the Q701's sound, but the K701 signature is better for FPS.  I'm not sure either are better or worth the price over HD598 or AD700 for strictly FPS....
   
_Maybe _the O2 amp, but portable amps usually don't sound as dynamic or large as desktop amps..  The E9 is cheap and will boost the volume, but not the soundstage.  Not sure what can do that under $200...


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I prefer the Q701's sound, but the K701 signature is better for FPS.  I'm not sure either are better or worth the price over HD598 or AD700 for strictly FPS....
> 
> _Maybe _the O2 amp, but portable amps usually don't sound as dynamic or large as desktop amps..  The E9 is cheap and will boost the volume, but not the soundstage.  Not sure what can do that under $200...


 

 Hated the K702 for FPS games, but that's just me since many love it. I always used the K601 over the K702 for gaming.
   
  For competitive gaming I'd probably take the KRK KNS-8400 over the Q701. Probably would give some an unfair advantage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I've been using the Q701 for gaming since I got it over anything else (100+ hours in Skyrim), but I might switch to the 8400 now that I tried it with Fallout 3. Couldn't believe how much better it sounded in one of the vaults I was in. There's some low bass that's barely even detected on the Q701. Made me sad! All this time I never really knew of the sounds a Mirelurk makes when they're not trying to kill you. Even makes my HD-598 and HD-580 look bad for gaming.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

How does the mixamp 5.8 hold up against something like the xonar dx? I have to be honest that the wireless aspect seems nice but it worries me a bit. Does it have any impact on sound quality?


----------



## thefranklin

The mixamp 5.8 and xonar dx have very different applications, so it is hard to compare them to one another.  Most obvious is the mixamp will allow you to DH game on consoles in addition to computers, and handle voice chat separately on the pc. 
   
  The wireless aspect would only be taken advantage of if you wanted to sit on the other side of the room your computer is and game / listen to music.  I can see that being helpful at times, or at times your headphone cord will be long enough anyways.  That is all down to you.  When I was younger it would have been perfect, but of course having an extra $130 wouldn't have ever happened (my 5.1 receiver I bought when I was 16 was only $90).


----------



## chicolom

*Tdock*, what do you have to say about the AKG K400 and K501 sound/soundstage?


----------



## Gladzilla

ultrasone 580 or 780


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





gladzilla said:


> ultrasone 580 or 780


 


  What?


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> *Tdock*, what do you have to say about the AKG K400 and K501 sound/soundstage?


 


  K501's soundstage is MASSIVE! Probably even larger than the AD700, but of course it depends on the recording or game. If you go to Tennpenny Tower in Fallout 3 with the K501 you feel like you're right there in real life with all that elevator music surrounding you. The K501's soundstage is actually larger than the K702/Q701 and K601. I always said that the K702's soundstage was like listening to music in an airplane hangar, but the K501 is more like that. Strangely, nothing sounds too distant, which is a surprise.
   
  The K501's soundstage really isn't good for gaming though IMO. It's way too huge. For music I prefer the K501/601 over the K702, but NOT the Q701. However, I don't think I'd take the K400 over the K702, but maybe. K400 is good, but it has some issues.
   
  Based on memory the K400 has more forward mids and more treble than the K501. Slightly less clear and less detailed. The killer for me with the K400 is that it didn't quite have enough bass and you had to use K601 pads to bring out the bass. I think the K400 is slightly more fun with specific music than the K501. A little more aggressive, but fairly balanced, but not like the K501.
   
  The K501 is a great headphone and worth every penny, but it's not really not any better than the Q701. I think the K501 is better than the K601 for music, but it all comes down to preferences. I prefer the smaller soundstage of the K601 for my music.
   
  Fans of Classical music really should do what it takes to grab the K501. It's just that good.
   
  K501 is also one of the most balanced sounding headphones i've ever heard. Q701 is just more clear and detailed and has better treble extension and more bass. Q701 is close to being as balanced sounding as the K501, but not quite. To my ears the K501 was as smooth sounding as the HD-598, but not as warm.


----------



## Gladzilla

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> What?


 


  ultrasone hifi 580 or 780 cans


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





gladzilla said:


> ultrasone hifi 580 or 780 cans


 

 You need to give people some details as to what you want, need, like, how you intend to use them, etc. or you're not going to get genuinely helpful responses, because we can only work with the info you give us.


----------



## Gladzilla

http://www.head-fi.org/t/596342/could-someone-point-me-in-the-right-direction
   
  there ya go


----------



## Eric_C

^ You just said in your own thread that you're going for the 780's. I'm not sure what other advice you need.


----------



## Gladzilla

I can be talked out of it Don't wanna regret things later.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> Fans of Classical music really should do what it takes to grab the K501. It's just that good.


 

  Amazon has one used for $1,399


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Amazon has one used for $1,399


 

 Figures..someone always has to take advantage of people like that.
  What's sad is that some millionaire will probably buy it.
   
  I saw that always going on with the ATH-AD2000. It's $400 used, but will always show up there used for up to $1000.
   
  I paid $200 for my K501 last year and it was in very good condition. Don't even remember who I got it from, but someone on here. I bet they still miss it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Since I can't use Ebay it took me a year to score a pair. Didn't try that hard though.
   
  I still want to try the Beyer DT-48e, but i'll probably hate it! That thing still sells for $400 new on B&H! Yikes. Probably built like a tank though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What is your budget Gladzilla?

For the $200-300 range for all purposes: D2000 (not having heard it, but it has all the bullet points I'd ask for in an all rounder)

$500+: D7000

Gaming, music, and movies... all rounders.


----------



## Gladzilla

Will those fit into my bag easily?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your bag look big enough to hold a baby, let alone some cans. The good thing about Denons is that they can be powered well off anything.


----------



## Gladzilla

Hey, mad lust envy

Have you tried or read reviews on the hifi 780 s?


----------



## Gladzilla

has any heard of reviews on the hifi 780s for gaming or has used them?


----------



## AxelCloris

So I've been getting mixed signals about the Astro Mixamp and I figured this would be the best place to get it cleared up. I'm reading some places that it can only process DH through optical and the USB is for power, but I'm seeing other places that are claiming that the USB can be used solo to give out DH. I'm looking for something to go along with my laptop and while I do have an optical out, it'd be 1 less cable to carry and a tad easier to work with if it can run solely off USB. The optical on it is nice if I ever decide to connect it to a console but the main use will be on my laptop.


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So I've been getting mixed signals about the Astro Mixamp and I figured this would be the best place to get it cleared up. I'm reading some places that it can only process DH through optical and the USB is for power, but I'm seeing other places that are claiming that the USB can be used solo to give out DH. I'm looking for something to go along with my laptop and while I do have an optical out, it'd be 1 less cable to carry and a tad easier to work with if it can run solely off USB. The optical on it is nice if I ever decide to connect it to a console but the main use will be on my laptop.


 


  Stereo only through usb


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its even on their site somewhere. USB is stereo only, as mentioned above. 

Gladzilla: no.


----------



## Eric_C

Confusion may have arisen due to an old, pre-2010 MixAmp, and then the new (current) MixAmp.
  I have the old one. One of the differences is that the pre-2010 MixAmp cannot transmit voice over USB for PC setups. Wouldn't surprise me if there were similar limitations on surround sound.


----------



## rabidgamer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, the Mass Effect 3 demo with the D7000.... SCHWEETNESS ALMIGHTY.


 
  Same with the Pro 900s, first game to make me just sit there and go... HOLY crap
   
  The noise these things made when the reapers first hit... omg.
   
  Might buy it for the sound alone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm in a serious predicament for Mass Effect 3. I played both console versions of the demo, and was very disappointed with how shoddy the game ran on the PS3.


My problem is that all of my ME2 data is on the PS3, so its either dealing with the craptastic PS3 version and keep my data, or start fresh on the 360.

All I care about is that if I start fresh, the previous game's characters aren't compromised, as well as mention of all DLC IF they are mentioned with a full ME2 file.

I do prefer it on the 360 for various reasons, but my ME2 data was on my ex's 360...not mine.

That said, it IS only a demo, but I'm skeptical about the issue being fixed so close to release day. The 360's demo version was fine.


----------



## calpis

Google "mass effect 2 save editor xbox"
   
  I haven't used/tried this yet because I've never played any of the Mass Effect games but I heard this method mentioned in a podcast.


----------



## Hailin

I am seriously debating playing through Mass Effect 2 again. I started fresh in 2 (a couple of times) due to red rings. I have finished the game a couple of times but my rolled over characters are no where near the end of the game. Really enjoying the engineer/adept/sentinel in the multiplayer.
   
  As far as sound on the Beyers the death beams from the juggernauts is insanely deep and loud. But Biotic explosions in MP as an Adept  a ton of mid bass. So much in fact I had to switch the HD598s because it I couldn't take it anymore. (Main volume 1o'clock, voice 2o'clock.)
  I lent my brother the Beyers this weekend to use with his Tritton setup and he gave them back an hour later. "I can't hear a damn thing with all that bass" were his words.
  Of course standing by my brother with him cracking off sniper shots on the HD598 is also amazing. First time he did it, it literally scared the crap out of me. Now no matter where he is on the map I can find him if he has a sniper rifle. We have both put in about 17 hours in the MP now. LOVE IT!


----------



## Gladzilla

just ordered the srh840, good buy or not


----------



## AxelCloris

The Mass Effect save editor works well. I have a friend playing now and he skipped ME1 but still wanted to choose how the story ended up and he's been loving ME2.
   
  And returning to my earlier question, so since the Mixamp only handles stereo over USB then that would make it in the same category as the U1 and U3 from Asus, correct?


----------



## Phos

Creative's Recon3D can do everything over USB on PC.  Even if your laptop has S/PDIF there's no guarantee it can encode Dolby.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> I am seriously debating playing through Mass Effect 2 again. I started fresh in 2 (a couple of times) due to red rings. I have finished the game a couple of times but my rolled over characters are no where near the end of the game. Really enjoying the engineer/adept/sentinel in the multiplayer.
> 
> As far as sound on the Beyers the death beams from the juggernauts is insanely deep and loud. But Biotic explosions in MP as an Adept  a ton of mid bass. So much in fact I had to switch the HD598s because it I couldn't take it anymore. (Main volume 1o'clock, voice 2o'clock.)
> I lent my brother the Beyers this weekend to use with his Tritton setup and he gave them back an hour later. "I can't hear a damn thing with all that bass" were his words.
> Of course standing by my brother with him cracking off sniper shots on the HD598 is also amazing. First time he did it, it literally scared the crap out of me. Now no matter where he is on the map I can find him if he has a sniper rifle. We have both put in about 17 hours in the MP now. LOVE IT!




I did mention that the DT990 Pro has a bit too much midbass, which is why I returned it...


----------



## Mysterious

Which of the headphones you reviewed do you think is the best compromise for gaming/movies and music ?


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Which of the headphones you reviewed do you think is the best compromise for gaming/movies and music ?


 


  I had the Sennheiser HD 598, now have the Beyer DT 990 pro. 
  I can strongly recommend the HD 598 as a great overall headphone for all you purposes. I think that one is a good compromise and I loved it watching movies/gaming as well as listening to music. The 990 pro has the better movie/gaming performance though.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy*
> 
> 
> BTW, the Mass Effect 3 demo with the D7000.... SCHWEETNESS ALMIGHTY.


 
   
  Quote:


rabidgamer said:


> Same with the Pro 900s, first game to make me just sit there and go... HOLY crap
> 
> The noise these things made when the reapers first hit... omg.
> 
> Might buy it for the sound alone.


 

 I can say the same for the 990/600. When that one reaper shoot the laser inside the building and everything goes BOOM! Totally awesome, I almost pissed myself, lol...Man, those reapers scared the heck outta me.
   
  BTW, I support the gaming sub-forum petition. Power to the gamers! xD


----------



## ninjikiran

oddly enough I thought the k701's to have a supremely tiny cone of accuracy enough to pinpoint the exact direction of foot prints of someone coming up a hill.
   
  The DT770 pro/80 has a slightly larger cone and is not as accurate but their closed design makes them a ton easier to listen to 90% of the time.
   
  Some people mic mod their 770's, mic mod on the 702s would be awesome as well. Granted you could find an amazing mic, clamp it to the desk and use that instead.  I decided to order the astro set(I owned the original mixamp but it went bad on me) just for sake of testing the mic and ther head set with the new mixamp.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I did mention that the DT990 Pro has a bit too much midbass, which is why I returned it...


 


  Yup yup I still find it a highly entertaining headphone for the game though. Couple hours with it switch to Senns heh. I am still researching that perfect headphone though I am beginning to think it doesn't exist or i can't afford it.lol
   
  For funs I was listening to some dubstep tracks on the Sens and i was shocked when I stumbled across a song and realized there is a ton of bass just hiding behind all that mid freq. Kinda blew me away. Really enjoyed it then put on some Jack Johnson and was swept away again.


----------



## Gladzilla

oh no should i be regretting ordering the srh840 for gaming?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





gladzilla said:


> oh no should i be regretting ordering the srh840 for gaming?


 


  I know I would but that is just me and I love a nice big soundstage. If you want to here every little tiny detail in your music I hear the 840 is a fantastic can. For gaming and music i would have to say nope but that is just from reading and looking around.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I had the Sennheiser HD 598, now have the Beyer DT 990 pro.
> I can strongly recommend the HD 598 as a great overall headphone for all you purposes. I think that one is a good compromise and I loved it watching movies/gaming as well as listening to music. The 990 pro has the better movie/gaming performance though.


 


  Both are above my 200$ budget 
 Anything under would be great


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Both are above my 200$ budget
> Anything under would be great


 


  There are lots. CALs, Superlux 668B, Samson Sr850, Senheiser 558 (598 used maybe), KSC75, Audio Technica AD900(if you search around.). Probably more can't think of them off the top of my head.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Both are above my 200$ budget
> Anything under would be great


 


  The Beyer (DT 990 pro that is) are 199 on amazon.com!
   
  I hear that the Creative aurvana live are pretty good too, especially considering their relatively low price.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





l00l said:


> The Beyer (DT 990 pro that is) are 199 on amazon.com!
> 
> I hear that the Creative aurvana live are pretty good too, especially considering their relatively low price.


 


  I have the pros and they are fantastic. What is with the insane pricing on Amazon lately I am usually very jealous of your prices.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





l00l said:


> The Beyer (DT 990 pro that is) are 199 on amazon.com!
> 
> I hear that the Creative aurvana live are pretty good too, especially considering their relatively low price.


 


  But they would need an amp for which i have no money left....
 Also the 32 ohm's version is not available on amazon....


----------



## Gladzilla

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I know I would but that is just me and I love a nice big soundstage. If you want to here every little tiny detail in your music I hear the 840 is a fantastic can. For gaming and music i would have to say nope but that is just from reading and looking around.


 


  ok how does the detail not carry over from music to games?


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> But they would need an amp for which i have no money left....
> Also the 32 ohm's version is not available on amazon....


 


  I will get an amp (Fiio E6 for the moment, E17 when available) for the 990 pro, but at least for my TV there is no need to buy one if you don´t have the money right now. Why actually is it that the Beyer need an amp and other don´t??? Maybe someone can comment on that. Would be interesting.
   
  What about the CAL then? They are very budget friendly.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I will get an amp (Fiio E6 for the moment, E17 when available) for the 990 pro, but at least for my TV there is no need to buy one if you don´t have the money right now. Why actually is it that the Beyer need an amp and other don´t??? Maybe someone can comment on that. Would be interesting.
> 
> What about the CAL then? They are very budget friendly.


 

 It's really hard to go for the CAL's when you have beyerdynamic headphones in your range but oh well....
 By the way , what about the Ultrasone Hfi 780/580 ?

 Edit:
 Does anyone know how much ohms of headphones can the Sony NW-HD5 drive ?


----------



## SniperCzar

If not the 990 Pro, why not the 770 Pro 80 ohm?


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> If not the 990 Pro, why not the 770 Pro 80 ohm?


 

 As he said , they are too bassy to be used in games so....


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> As he said , they are too bassy to be used in games so....


 


  Thats really a matter of preference. I have the 770 pro 80 and I find them to be very nice for gaming and I have no problems sound whoring in mw3 (only fps I play). You really need to try headphones out before you make up your mind. I went through 3 pairs before I landed on these


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> As he said , they are too bassy to be used in games so....


 
   
  I saw a nice article by NwAvGuy a while back that showed if you use them with a nice low output impedance source they don't sound nearly as boomy as everyone seems to claim. Also, as I'm used to my 8" sub right under my computer desk, the Beyers aren't anywhere *near* as skull rattling unless I go out of my way to EQ them, so YMMV with them. Worth trying them out as they meet all your requirements IMO.


----------



## silikone

Ok, so I've decided to get good Sennheiser headphones for my PC games. The HD 598 mentioned in this guide is far to expensive for me. The cheaper HD 558 however doesn't seem too bad in price, but I am still hesitating. My dad told me that PC audio won't get much better than what a HD 518 can drive, which again is cheaper than the HD 558. I'll be using headphones with a Sound Blaster X-Fi.
  Between the HD 558 and the HD 518, which one do you recommend?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





gladzilla said:


> ok how does the detail not carry over from music to games?


 


  Because the majority of the game audio is highly compressed. Unlike music where you get to control the source some what.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





silikone said:


> Ok, so I've decided to get good Sennheiser headphones for my PC games. The HD 598 mentioned in this guide is far to expensive for me. The cheaper HD 558 however doesn't seem too bad in price, but I am still hesitating. My dad told me that PC audio won't get much better than what a HD 518 can drive, which again is cheaper than the HD 558. I'll be using headphones with a Sound Blaster X-Fi.
> Between the HD 558 and the HD 518, which one do you recommend?


 


  I am running the HD598 out of the my pc audio front port with a Realtek HD onboard. Your X-Fi is a much better card then my setup. They run more then loud enough to make my ears ring. (It runs more then loud enough for my Beyers which are 250ohm. Yes I know ohms rating isn't everything)
  I would say HD558's because you can remove the foam in them to see if you like the sound. The foam mod is completely reversible. Read this review of the HD558 here to help with your choice.
  Problem is in the 518 range you have a lot of different choices that are probably better. /shrug
   
  Edit: I really need to read what I am writing.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





silikone said:


> Ok, so I've decided to get good Sennheiser headphones for my PC games. The HD 598 mentioned in this guide is far to expensive for me. The cheaper HD 558 however doesn't seem too bad in price, but I am still hesitating. My dad told me that PC audio won't get much better than what a HD 518 can drive, which again is cheaper than the HD 558. I'll be using headphones with a Sound Blaster X-Fi.
> Between the HD 558 and the HD 518, which one do you recommend?


 
  "my dad told me that "PC audio" (which is?) won't get much better than what a HD518 can drive?
  Need more details on what he is saying.
   
  Senn HD518 are a good choice for built in sound....but.
  You can get the Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, sells for $30 and some places (like Fry's) have a $10 mail in rebate this month.
  Comes with a half-way decent headphone amplifier and Dolby Digital (Dolby Virtual Headphone, 5.1 surround sound).
  The Xonar DG can easily power the HD558 (50-Ohm).
  You can always go cheap and get the Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) headphones.


----------



## ninjikiran

the dt770 pros should only bother you if you are hyper competetive.  The explosive actions might take precedence over foot steps which are more useful to you than the quality of an explosion near you.
   
  If you dont need that level of competition by all means the 770's are the safest choice for immersion.  Because lets face it, hearing foot steps the way you do in some of these games is just exploiting the way sounds are reflected in the game world rather than it being realistic.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> the dt770 pros should only bother you if you are hyper competetive.  The explosive actions might take precedence over foot steps which are more useful to you than the quality of an explosion near you.
> 
> If you dont need that level of competition by all means the 770's are the safest choice for immersion.  Because lets face it, hearing foot steps the way you do in some of these games is just exploiting the way sounds are reflected in the game world rather than it being realistic.


 
   
  I love when I'm wearing my 770s and I can hear people through the ceiling above me in BF3 and know exactly where they are with CMSS, so priceless.


----------



## silikone

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> "my dad told me that "PC audio" (which is?) won't get much better than what a HD518 can drive?
> Need more details on what he is saying.


 


  I think he implied that sound cards aren't good enough. He has a stereo digital-to-analog converter worth thousands, which I believe is what he refers to as good enough. Since all headphones in the 500 series have the same impedance, I don't quite believe that a decent sound card won't make a difference between the three.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ninjikiran said:


> the dt770 pros should only bother you if you are hyper competetive.  The explosive actions might take precedence over foot steps which are more useful to you than the quality of an explosion near you.
> 
> If you dont need that level of competition by all means the 770's are the safest choice for immersion.  Because lets face it, hearing foot steps the way you do in some of these games is just exploiting the way sounds are reflected in the game world rather than it being realistic.




Very wise words.

The DT770 Pro 80 is usually found at the same price as the DT990 pro. I would say the DT990 pro is NOTICEABLY better than the 770 Pro 80s. At times, Amazon has a listing for the DT990 pros for around $170. I'd go for them at that price, no problem. At least for you guys. Too much mid bass for me, but I'm sensitive to mid bass as it gives me headaches if it's too tipped upward.

I'd only recommend the 770 Pro 80 IF you needed isolation/noise leakage control, and a whopping amount of bass. They are a a great can for immersion, no denying it, and they have probably the very best surround sound positioning I've ever heard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In about 15 hours or less, I expect a Vita in my hands, dammit! 

Next week is also SSX week. Then Mass Effect 3 after that.... OMG... games are coming!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





silikone said:


> I think he implied that sound cards aren't good enough. He has a stereo digital-to-analog converter worth thousands, which I believe is what he refers to as good enough. Since all headphones in the 500 series have the same impedance, I don't quite believe that a decent sound card won't make a difference between the three.


 
  Yes the 518, 558 & 598 are all 50-Ohm.
  The 518 will do fine on an unamped connection, but does not improve that much when amped.
  Where as the 558 & 598 will improve more when amped, surpassing the 518.


----------



## Gladzilla

hailin said:


> Because the majority of the game audio is highly compressed. Unlike music where you get to control the source some what.




Dang I thought I found a great all around set


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





gladzilla said:


> Dang I thought I found a great all around set


 


  Have you read the first post? You might find a headphone there that works for you.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very wise words.
> The DT770 Pro 80 is usually found at the same price as the DT990 pro. I would say the DT990 pro is NOTICEABLY better than the 770 Pro 80s. At times, Amazon has a listing for the DT990 pros for around $170. I'd go for them at that price, no problem. At least for you guys. Too much mid bass for me, but I'm sensitive to mid bass as it gives me headaches if it's too tipped upward.
> I'd only recommend the 770 Pro 80 IF you needed isolation/noise leakage control, and a whopping amount of bass. They are a a great can for immersion, no denying it, and they have probably the very best surround sound positioning I've ever heard.


 


  I can find the dt990 pro's for 199 but they are the 250 ohm version for which i don't have the amp or soundcard to drive 

 What would you say will be able to sufficiently drive 80 ohm headphones ?
  Will be using onboard soundcard ( Realtek HD onboard ) and the Sony NW-HD5/iPhone 3G


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> I can find the dt990 pro's for 199 but they are the 250 ohm version for which i don't have the amp or soundcard to drive
> What would you say will be able to sufficiently drive 80 ohm headphones ?
> Will be using onboard soundcard ( Realtek HD onboard ) and the Sony NW-HD5/iPhone 3G


 
  On-board sound will work with DT770 Pro 80-Ohm, but it will have mushy bass, so your kind of wasting all that cash buying the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.
  But the good news is you can get the Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card for $30, it has a half-way decent headphone amplifier,
  which should power the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm better then the built in sound card on the motherboard.
  The Asus Xonar DG also comes with Dolby Digital (Dolby Virtual Headphone).
  This month some retailers have a $10 mail in rebate for the Xonar DG.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very wise words.
> The DT770 Pro 80 is usually found at the same price as the DT990 pro. I would say the DT990 pro is NOTICEABLY better than the 770 Pro 80s. At times, Amazon has a listing for the DT990 pros for around $170. I'd go for them at that price, no problem. At least for you guys. Too much mid bass for me, but I'm sensitive to mid bass as it gives me headaches if it's too tipped upward.
> I'd only recommend the 770 Pro 80 IF you needed isolation/noise leakage control, and a whopping amount of bass. They are a a great can for immersion, no denying it, and they have probably the very best surround sound positioning I've ever heard.


 
   
  Just two more comments on this as MLE is thinking strictly gaming here (it is a gaming thread after all) - If you're just getting into headphones and plan to use your first good pair with sources other than a headphone amp hooked to your console, and you want to save some cash by not having to get a portable amp on top of the cost of the console amp, I'd say get the 770 Pro 80s. Not the best reason as I did this to save money at first... but here I am less than a year later with my E17 in the mail, wishing I'd gotten the 250 ohms because I'll have no trouble driving them from my laptop/iPod when the E17 arrives. Kind of a long term planning fail on my part, but it did save me about $200 in the short term between a good deal on used 770s and not having to buy a portable amp.

 If you're a PC gamer rather than console looking to get your first pair of high-end headphones, the 770s are an insane value as you can just EQ them slightly and shave off a little of the bass when gaming to turn them into an excellent "competitive" headphone. Then you can have a closed+comfortable (awesome for portable use), easy to drive (saves money on amps as mentioned above), and great for gaming (with a little EQ) all in one headphone that should put up a great fight against the upgrade itch... at least until you have cash to blow and start thinking about getting a pair of those 990s everyone likes a little better for gaming too for home use... 
   
  After having them for a year and putting them through the best example of headphone hell I can think of (*cough* two seasons of rowing with 50lbs of books in the same backpack *cough*) they haven't got a single scratch on them, it'd be hard to tell they were ever used if not for the usual pad coloration and faded lettering. All the "built like a tank" comments? Tank is an understatement, it's honestly more like "bomb shelter". The weeks of research and reviews I read before getting first pair of $100+ headphones really paid off, they really are all-around to the point they qualify as the swiss army knife of the headphone world. In short, 990s have the edge in SQ but they're open and need amping, which in some cases makes all the difference.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> On-board sound will work with DT770 Pro 80-Ohm, but it will have mushy bass, so your kind of wasting all that cash buying the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.
> But the good news is you can get the Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card for $30, it has a half-way decent headphone amplifier,
> which should power the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm better then the built in sound card on the motherboard.
> The Asus Xonar DG also comes with Dolby Digital (Dolby Virtual Headphone).
> This month some retailers have a $10 mail in rebate for the Xonar DG.


 

 Unfortunately i don't live in the US and amazon is not giving a rebate ...


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Just two more comments on this as MLE is thinking strictly gaming here (it is a gaming thread after all) - If you're just getting into headphones and plan to use your first good pair with sources other than a headphone amp hooked to your console, and you want to save some cash by not having to get a portable amp on top of the cost of the console amp, I'd say get the 770 Pro 80s. Not the best reason as I did this to save money at first... but here I am less than a year later with my E17 in the mail, wishing I'd gotten the 250 ohms because I'll have no trouble driving them from my laptop/iPod when the E17 arrives. Kind of a long term planning fail on my part, but it did save me about $200 in the short term between a good deal on used 770s and not having to buy a portable amp.
> 
> If you're a PC gamer rather than console looking to get your first pair of high-end headphones, the 770s are an insane value as you can just EQ them slightly and shave off a little of the bass when gaming to turn them into an excellent "competitive" headphone. Then you can have a closed+comfortable (awesome for portable use), easy to drive (saves money on amps as mentioned above), and great for gaming (with a little EQ) all in one headphone that should put up a great fight against the upgrade itch... at least until you have cash to blow and start thinking about getting a pair of those 990s everyone likes a little better for gaming too for home use...
> 
> After having them for a year and putting them through the best example of headphone hell I can think of (*cough* two seasons of rowing with 50lbs of books in the same backpack *cough*) they haven't got a single scratch on them, it'd be hard to tell they were ever used if not for the usual pad coloration and faded lettering. All the "built like a tank" comments? Tank is an understatement, it's honestly more like "bomb shelter". The weeks of research and reviews I read before getting first pair of $100+ headphones really paid off, they really are all-around to the point they qualify as the swiss army knife of the headphone world. In short, 990s have the edge in SQ but they're open and need amping, which in some cases makes all the difference.


 
  Would you say the 770 pros are fantastic for movies and music as well ?


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Would you say the 770 pros are fantastic for movies and music as well ?


 
   
  The bass on the 770s gets a bad rap, but I'm going to have to paraphrase something I read in someone's review of them a while back. It's really like Jekyll and Hyde. When you listen to music with average bass they sound clear but nothing that takes your breath away, normal Jekyll dude style. When you plug them into any game, movie, or rap song made after let's say 2000 that goes out of its way to have bombastic sub-happy wuhwuhwuhdubs, you're going to do a double take when Mr. Hyde shows up. Yes there's just so much of it, but it's more the fact that it's so clean. They're one of the only pairs of cans in that price range that interfere with positioning in games not because they're sloppy with the bass to the point of distraction, but because they flaunt the clean bass to the point it starts to mask the quieter highs just a little. So yes, when you're doing things other than gaming it's really not going to take away your enjoyment at all, though they're not quite as nice sounding as the 990s


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> The bass on the 770s gets a bad rap, but I'm going to have to paraphrase something I read in someone's review of them a while back. It's really like Jekyll and Hyde. When you listen to music with average bass they sound clear but nothing that takes your breath away, normal Jekyll dude style. When you plug them into any game, movie, or rap song made after let's say 2000 that goes out of its way to have bombastic sub-happy wuhwuhwuhdubs, you're going to do a double take when Mr. Hyde shows up. Yes there's just so much of it, but it's more the fact that it's so clean. They're one of the only pairs of cans in that price range that interfere with positioning in games not because they're sloppy with the bass to the point of distraction, but because they flaunt the clean bass to the point it starts to mask the quieter highs just a little. So yes, when you're doing things other than gaming it's really not going to take away your enjoyment at all, though they're not quite as nice sounding as the 990s


 

 I have 2 choice
 1. Beyerdynamic dt770 80 ohm - 150$
 2. *[size=small]Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO + some Behringer equipment   - 199 $[/size]*

*[size=small]Which of the following do you think is the better deal ? keep it mind these will be my first "real" headphones that i buy and i don't have an amp nor a soundcard to power these[/size]*
  I am kinda leaning towards the dt770 considering the fact that they are closed so can be used when travelling and also i like my bass punchy. Also I listen to almost all the genres known to man well except jazz and classical


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> 2. *[size=small]Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO + some Behringer equipment   - 199 $[/size]*


 
   
  What is that some Behringer equipment exactly ? By the way, if you do not need isolation, I recommend the 990.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What is that some Behringer equipment exactly ? By the way, if you do not need isolation, I recommend the 990.


 


  Got a choice between some headphone , Di Box , Audiophile Vacuum Tube Preamplifier with Preamp Modeling Technology ( whatever this means ) , a spliiter


----------



## Hailin

I better get my hearing checked so scientists can use me in experimentation.
  I can not stress this enough the Beyer pro (990 at least) are not that hard to drive. Mysterious I use a Realtek HD onboard (full system volume/Itunes quarter volume/Foobar -18db to -25db), Iphone 4s(50 to 60% volume), and a mixamp(1 o'clock with voices mixed in, 11o'clock no voice mixed in). Any higher and I get a lot of ear fatigue to the point it starts to hurt my head. Granted everyone is different.
  The Realtek is the most balanced of my sources. The mixamp adds a lot of lower frequency when it's needed almost just slightly where it can bleed a tad into everything. A biotic explosion can literally leave you a tad disoriented. The iphone4s sorta turns it into a mid frequency headphone for me, sure it loses some of it's bass slam but the resolution on the Beyers is so good it keeps the sound up.
  I want an amp down the road as well but at the moment i really don't need one. What I want is an amp that helps with low level listening to bring the resolution and depth up a bit. Hoping the ODA or Matrix or E17 can help with that.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Got a choice between some headphone , Di Box , Audiophile Vacuum Tube Preamplifier with Preamp Modeling Technology ( whatever this means ) , a spliiter


 

 What is the model name/number of this device ? There are a number of similar ones, with different specs.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I can not stress this enough the Beyer pro (990 at least) are not that hard to drive.


 

 Actually, I have similar experience. But I guess it depends on who is listening, and to what. In any case, the power requirements of headphones are often overstated here.


----------



## Mysterious

Check on ebay.
 There are tons of them
  
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> What is the model name/number of this device ? There are a number of similar ones, with different specs.


 


  
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> I better get my hearing checked so scientists can use me in experimentation.
> I can not stress this enough the Beyer pro (990 at least) are not that hard to drive. Mysterious I use a Realtek HD onboard (full system volume/Itunes quarter volume/Foobar -18db to -25db), Iphone 4s(50 to 60% volume), and a mixamp(1 o'clock with voices mixed in, 11o'clock no voice mixed in). Any higher and I get a lot of ear fatigue to the point it starts to hurt my head. Granted everyone is different.
> The Realtek is the most balanced of my sources. The mixamp adds a lot of lower frequency when it's needed almost just slightly where it can bleed a tad into everything. A biotic explosion can literally leave you a tad disoriented. The iphone4s sorta turns it into a mid frequency headphone for me, sure it loses some of it's bass slam but the resolution on the Beyers is so good it keeps the sound up.
> I want an amp down the road as well but at the moment i really don't need one. What I want is an amp that helps with low level listening to bring the resolution and depth up a bit. Hoping the ODA or Matrix or E17 can help with that.


 

  
  Which 990's do you have exactly ?
 Pro or Premium and what is their impedance ?
   
   
   
   
   
  I Just may go with 770 pro 80 ohms considering that they will probably require the amp the least and also save me 50$ to spend on an amp maybe ?
 Any suggestion for which amp to choose for 770 pro's so that i can control the bass when in game and not when am listening to music


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> I Just may go with 770 pro 80 ohms considering that they will probably require the amp the least and also save me 50$ to spend on an amp maybe ?
> Any suggestion for which amp to choose for 770 pro's so that i can control the bass when in game and not when am listening to music


 

 If you're on PC you should be able to EQ without an amp in your sound drivers. If it's console you'll have to ask all the console guys here what they recommend for an amp with EQ.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Check on ebay.
> There are tons of them
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have the DT990 Pro (250 Ohm).


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> If you're on PC you should be able to EQ without an amp in your sound drivers. If it's console you'll have to ask all the console guys here what they recommend for an amp with EQ.


 


  Am on the PC so i should be good
 Which is your preferred software to eQ ?

 Also is it true that the 250 ohm versions are easier to amp than the 80 amp versions ?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Am on the PC so i should be good
> Which is your preferred software to eQ ?
> 
> Also is it true that the 250 ohm versions are easier to amp than the 80 amp versions ?


 

 I believe MLE is one of the few people that can answer that as he has owned more Beyers then most.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I believe MLE is one of the few people that can answer that as he has owned more Beyers then most.


 


  Anyways i am not going to be buying an amp soon so i don't think it should be a problem


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the DT770 Pro 80 to ME is DEFINITELY the easiest of the Beyers in terms of what can drive them. The 32ohm is actually harder to drive. I dunno What Beyer was smoking when they made the 32ohm Premiums. 

The 250ohm is harder to drive than the 80ohm, but easier than the 32 and 600ohm, IMHO. Seriously, if you're looking into either a 32 or 250ohm beyer, just get the 250ohm. The power needed for both is near identical. The reason I say go for the 250ohm is because the 32ohm fails without an amp. Since you're gonna need an amp, you may as well get the better one. The 600ohm should honestly be left for those with some powerful desktop amps. The others can be driven well enough from portable amps like the E11.


Remember, volume does NOT equal driving force. The 600ohm beyers can be driven to excruciatingly loud levels off a lot of things, but won't beat a 250ohm from a portable/weaker amp. If you see yourself upgrading your amps at some point, then I guess the 600ohm makes sense, but if you're trying to settle for something NOW, I recommend the 250ohm. Just my 2 cents. I do realize that this IS Head-fi, and you'll probably upgrade at some point, so IF you're like a lot of people here that build for the future, get the 600ohm. 



Yay, got my Vita. Haven't turned it on though. I put my 8gb card in, and commenced to charge it. I never turn on new toys until they are fully charged. I'll be going to sleep in a few, so it will have to wait until tonight.

As impatient a person as I am... I'm strangely patient when it comes to new portable electronics.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Also is it true that the 250 ohm versions are easier to amp than the 80 amp versions ?


 

 Only if you have a source with high (>= 100 Ohm) output impedance. Otherwise, with a source optimized for low impedance headphones, 80 Ohm is "easier". But do not get it for that reason only, having a headphone with a signature that matches your preferences better is more important (for example, the 770 has a dip in the upper midrange that many people do not like).


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, the DT770 Pro 80 to ME is DEFINITELY the easiest of the Beyers in terms of what can drive them. The 32ohm is actually harder to drive. I dunno What Beyer was smoking when they made the 32ohm Premiums.
> The 250ohm is harder to drive than the 80ohm, but easier than the 32 and 600ohm, IMHO. Seriously, if you're looking into either a 32 or 250ohm beyer, just get the 250ohm. The power needed for both is near identical. The reason I say go for the 250ohm is because the 32ohm fails without an amp. Since you're gonna need an amp, you may as well get the better one. The 600ohm should honestly be left for those with some powerful desktop amps. The others can be driven well enough from portable amps like the E11.
> Remember, volume does NOT equal driving force. The 600ohm beyers can be driven to excruciatingly loud levels off a lot of things, but won't beat a 250ohm from a portable/weaker amp. If you see yourself upgrading your amps at some point, then I guess the 600ohm makes sense, but if you're trying to settle for something NOW, I recommend the 250ohm. Just my 2 cents. I do realize that this IS Head-fi, and you'll probably upgrade at some point, so IF you're like a lot of people here that build for the future, get the 600ohm.
> Yay, got my Vita. Haven't turned it on though. I put my 8gb card in, and commenced to charge it. I never turn on new toys until they are fully charged. I'll be going to sleep in a few, so it will have to wait until tonight.
> As impatient a person as I am... I'm strangely patient when it comes to new portable electronics.


 

 It will probably be a LONG time before i upgrade from these
 I'll probably stick with the 80 ohm considering i will be visiting the US at the end of 2012 and amp them their.
 Everything is expensive here


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If this is your first serious headphone and like bass, I believe you'll be very happy with them.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If this is your first serious headphone and like bass, I believe you'll be very happy with them.


 


  Yes it is and yes i do like my bass 

 ALSO A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who helped me !


----------



## l00l

I received my Fiio E6 in the mail today (as a temporary solution before getting the E17) and can say that it definitely does go well with the Beyer 990 pro. Overall sound volume is up (as it should be with an amp) and the sound quality is increased, mainly cause of the EQ. Now I can turn down those scratching highs a bit that bothered me before (for example on MW3 with the PP90M1). Having said that, the E6 does not improve overall sound quality (other than the scratching because of the EQ). But I suppose that´s not something you can expect from a € 25 amp. I am expecting that from the Fiio E17 though!!
   
  So, Mysterious, if you can go like $ 25 for the E6 over your 200 budget then you could get yourself the 990 pro and a serious amp/DAC later down the road.
   
  And just because "sound whoring" came up: I don´t think that you need particularly good headphones for that to begin with. Of course I can do it with my Beyer 990 pro right now, but I have also done it with my € 20 Sennheiser in-ears. To be able to hear where enemies are coming from is more a matter of map-knowledge and experience with the game, rather than using the best headphones out there. A decent set (by a rather low standard) of headphones will suffice.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I received my Fiio E6 in the mail today (as a temporary solution before getting the E17) and can say that it definitely does go well with the Beyer 990 pro. Overall sound volume is up (as it should be with an amp) and the sound quality is increased, mainly cause of the EQ. Now I can turn down those scratching highs a bit that bothered me before (for example on MW3 with the PP90M1). Having said that, the E6 does not improve overall sound quality (other than the scratching because of the EQ). But I suppose that´s not something you can expect from a € 25 amp. I am expecting that from the Fiio E17 though!!
> 
> So, Mysterious, if you can go like $ 25 for the E6 over your 200 budget then you could get yourself the 990 pro and a serious amp/DAC later down the road.
> 
> And just because "sound whoring" came up: I don´t think that you need particularly good headphones for that to begin with. Of course I can do it with my Beyer 990 pro right now, but I have also done it with my € 20 Sennheiser in-ears. To be able to hear where enemies are coming from is more a matter of map-knowledge and experience with the game, rather than using the best headphones out there. A decent set (by a rather low standard) of headphones will suffice.


 

 I live outside the US so i have to take shipping also into consideration and i will probably get an open headphone down the road but right now since i don't have an amp i will pass and also i wanted to use this headphones for portable use ( at times )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So turned on my Vita, and the first thing I saw was something like this...



Ugh.

Not exactly the Vita's fault, but OLED in general, it seems. A replacement is already on it's way, but I expect I'll still get some of those artifacts on blacks in low light conditions. I guess all display techs have their own shortcomings, though I believe if they'd have gone Super AMOLED, this wouldn't have been an issue as the super AMOLED phones I've seen were PERFECTLY uniform with no issues whatsoever. I would venture a guess by saying that 2nd gen Vitas will probably have those screens.

Other than that, the Vita is pretty awesome, though I've spent most of my time setting it up and getting acquainted with it. I only fired up Uncharted for a few minutes. Graphics are impressive, but still not 1st gen ps3. Still, it's DAMN sexy.


Again, guys, find a black background or really dark scenes, and very low light conditions. Let us know what you see. That's not my Vita on the pic above, but mine is a milder version of that, and it's distracting and obvious if you have no lights on.


----------



## TheyAintReady

MLE, I decided to go with the AKG K701s. Thanks for your thoughts!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hope you like them. Let us know what you think! Not sure I'd have gone with that, since to me the Q701 is better all around, but if FPS is top priority, the K701 won't disappoint.


----------



## TheyAintReady

Will do. Looking forward to checking it out with that Yamaha Silent Cinema feature!


----------



## Danny0990

I've been snooping around and just had to post my 2cents for mysterious. lol. **** the 770's, bud. When you shop for electronics you gotta think "expandability". No point dishing out a lot of moolah on something outdated, that wont benefit you in the long run. I'd bite the bullet and go with the 990's, worst case scenerio is you HATE them and get a refund within the 2 week trial period. I personally own the 990 600 which are absolutely phenomenal, to say the least. I just bought the lyr for them today too 
   
  At the end of the day its your money, good luck and I hope you enjoy your new set of cans, whichever they may be.


----------



## SniperCzar

danny0990 said:


> I've been snooping around and just had to post my 2cents for mysterious. lol. **** the 770's, bud. When you shop for electronics you gotta think "expandability". No point dishing out a lot of moolah on something outdated, that wont benefit you in the long run. I'd bite the bullet and go with the 990's, worst case scenerio is you HATE them and get a refund within the 2 week trial period. I personally own the 990 600 which are absolutely phenomenal, to say the least. I just bought the lyr for them today too
> 
> At the end of the day its your money, good luck and I hope you enjoy your new set of cans, whichever they may be.




Not all of us have the cash for two "expendable" cans, especially when some of us do a lot of travelling...


----------



## ninjikiran

The 990s are open, the 880s are semi-open, the 770s are closed.
   
  You don't know how headphones work xD Or at least the fact that each line has its own advantages.


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> The 990s are open, the 880s are semi-open, the 770s are closed.


 
   
  The 880 does not have much isolation, so it is closer to an open headphone in practice. Although these are similar and built around the same drivers, the 770 does sacrifice some sound quality for the isolation, so unless you need that, or prefer the 770's sound with the emphasized sub-bass, the 990 may indeed be better.


----------



## ninjikiran

Was @ Danny who thought higher number meant it was just an upgraded model.  When the entire line is meant to co exist and serve people with different needs.
  
  Quote: 





stv014 said:


> The 880 does not have much isolation, so it is closer to an open headphone in practice. Although these are similar and built around the same drivers, the 770 does sacrifice some sound quality for the isolation, so unless you need that, or prefer the 770's sound with the emphasized sub-bass, the 990 may indeed be better.


----------



## Danny0990

Put your pitchfork away. From what I've read, I've concluded they're inferrior to ME, better?. If I had a $200 budget id want something that still has potential(if i wanted to add an amp into the mix at one point), more bang for my buck IMO.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> Also is it true that the 250 ohm versions are easier to amp than the 80 amp versions ?


 

 I found the 80-Ohm easier to drive then the 250-Ohm.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





danny0990 said:


> Put your pitchfork away. From what I've read, I've concluded they're inferrior to ME, better?.
> 
> *inferrior*


 

 Please tell me no animals were harmed in the making of these inferrior headphones!

 Also, double punctuation makes me a sad panda.!


----------



## Danny0990

You're not funny. Go find another thread to troll.


Eta: my lyr just shipped, will be here by Saturday. I can't wait!


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





danny0990 said:


> You're not funny. Go find another thread to troll.
> Eta: my lyr just shipped, will be here by Saturday. I can't wait!


 

 Well excuuuuse me. If I remember right I wasn't the one who came in here saying "screw headphone XYZ..."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let's be civil guys. I understood him. He was implying that the 990s are better than the 770s overall based on what I said, which IMHO is absolutely true.

While the 3 popular Beyers are meant to co-exist, the 770 Pro 80 and 990s are both bass and treble centric headphones. Based off sound alone, the 990's open design leads to better overall SQ for gaming and movies over the closed/restricted sound of the 770s (in comparison).

In conclusion, the 990s are a better buy unless you absolutely need isolation and keep sounds in.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> While the 3 popular Beyers are meant to co-exist, the 770 Pro 80 and 990s are both bass and treble centric headphones. Based off sound alone, the 990's open design leads to better overall SQ for gaming and movies over the closed/restricted sound of the 770s (in comparison).
> In conclusion, the 990s are a better buy unless you absolutely need isolation and keep sounds in.


 

 I'd have to agree, though I think the fact that the 770s don't really need an amp to drive them helps them out a little as well.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I'd have to agree, though I think the fact that the 770s don't really need an amp to drive them helps them out a little as well.


 


  No amp for the DT-770 Pro 80? I have to disagree. Even on a Sansa Fuze with LOD to Nuforce Icon Mobile and they barely get enough volume on high gain.
  The E7 should have similar results. When I had one I was kind of surprised they didn't get very loud from most portable devices.
   
  Even the 32 ohm Beyer DT-770-990s have never been easy to drive based on my experience with them.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I'd have to agree, though I think the fact that the 770s don't really need an amp to drive them helps them out a little as well.


 


  Unless you have some sort of hearing loss I don't agree with this. I have stated numerous times the DT990 pros don't need an amp. The 600 ohms might like an amp to join the mix but that also applies to the 770 as well and again is subjective to that persons listening experience. Even I don't know. Some days I sit here looking at the 600ohms and my volume levels and wish I had bought a premium. Then I read Mal's comments on the pro vs premium and I calm down.
   
  I am really starting to see that a person that gets interested in this hobby in most cases will have to buy 2 or more headphones to tryout till they find the one they love. Even then more and more people are getting multiple headphones for multiple uses and genres. All we can do is point them in the right direction. From there it is up to their ears.
   
  Even the bass in the HD598 is starting to shine. That is a headphone that needs some burn in. Whether it is mechanical or head who knows all I know is I am starting to enjoy them. To think I was ready to let them go. No way they have a nice comfortable spot in my collection. They are my Daft Punk headphones after all. (Yes I am turning into "that" guy.)


----------



## SniperCzar

Mine have no trouble with my iPod 5G. Also never had any trouble when using friends phones or 5+ year old laptops with onboard audio, the fact that it didn't sound good on those wasn't from lack of amping.
   
  From everything I've heard the 32ohm are as hard to drive as the 250s, as screwy as that sounds.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





tdockweiler said:


> No amp for the DT-770 Pro 80? I have to disagree. Even on a Sansa Fuze with LOD to Nuforce Icon Mobile and they barely get enough volume on high gain.
> The E7 should have similar results. When I had one I was kind of surprised they didn't get very loud from most portable devices.
> 
> Even the 32 ohm Beyer DT-770-990s have never been easy to drive based on my experience with them.


 


  Hmm I may have to take back some of what I said now Tdockweiler. hmm.


----------



## tdockweiler

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Hmm I may have to take back some of what I said now Tdockweiler. hmm.


 
   
  I don't know..I just felt they weren't too easy to drive. Maybe they're better from an Ipod Touch or Zune HD.
  I guess the best thing to do is for people to try it. I guess as long as you get enough volume.
  Probably just a case of not enough volume with some sources, but still sounding decent..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sniperczar said:


> Mine have no trouble with my iPod 5G. Also never had any trouble when using friends phones or 5+ year old laptops with onboard audio, the fact that it didn't sound good on those wasn't from lack of amping.
> 
> From everything I've heard the 32ohm are as hard to drive as the 250s, as screwy as that sounds.




They are. Which is why Beyer made an error with releasing the 32ohm Beyers. Don't get me wrong, they sound just as good as the 250. Their mistake was that as far as 32ohm headphones go, they're very inefficient, and sound anemic without an amp. Since they need an amp just like the 250ohm does, you may as well get the 250ohm, as they have a lower noise floor, and the higher impedance leads to more versatility in what amps to use. There are lots of amps with 5+ohm output impedance which work better with cans with 40ohms or higher. 

In the case of the 32ohm Beyers, they work their bestv with amps that have less than 8ohm output impedances, which cuts out a lot of amps that technically wouldn't pair well with their impedance (like the E9 which favors headphones with over 80ohms).


----------



## Mysterious

So the DT 770 Pro's are sold out (unfortunately) !
 So looks like i will have to wait or are there any better alternatives to it (~150$) ?
   
  Also i agree that the dt990 are superior to the dt 770 in every way but i don't have the space (since they are open back) nor the amp to power them properly !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT770 Pro 80 needs an amp. Only those who run it ampless would think it doesn't. It IS easy to drive in terms of the popular Beyers, but it's bass sounds incredibly bloated without an amp, and mids are very thin, and treble very harsh. If you're going unamped, te DT770 Pro 80s are just gonna be sad for not getting proper power.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 needs an amp. Only those who run it ampless would think it doesn't. It IS easy to drive in terms of the popular Beyers, but it's bass sounds incredibly bloated without an amp, and mids are very thin, and treble very harsh. If you're going unamped, te DT770 Pro 80s are just gonna be sad for not getting proper power.


 


  Good thing it were sold out then...
 Anyways they were my first "real" pair of headphones so i might not even have noticed it
   
  Any other recommendations that can give me the best of both worlds ( gaming/music with amazing comfort) that can be run without an amp but will sound better when amped ...


----------



## stv014

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 needs an amp. Only those who run it ampless would think it doesn't. It IS easy to drive in terms of the popular Beyers, but it's bass sounds incredibly bloated without an amp, and mids are very thin, and treble very harsh. If you're going unamped, te DT770 Pro 80s are just gonna be sad for not getting proper power.


 

 I have no experience with the 80 Ohm version, but to me the 250 Ohm does not seem to change much (and I do not see the reason why it should) when powered from different sources, other than obviously the maximum volume without distortion, and minor differences due to output impedance, and general sound quality (noise etc. not related to driving headphones). I guess the 80 Ohm version is more affected by high output impedance, which would make its already muddy sound even worse.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mysterious said:


> Good thing it were sold out then...
> Anyways they were my first "real" pair of headphones so i might not even have noticed it
> 
> Any other recommendations that can give me the best of both worlds ( gaming/music with amazing comfort) that can be run without an amp but will sound better when amped ...




The Creative Aurvana Live is like a baby DT770 Pro 80, and doesn't scale much with amping. They're also heavily discounted at times. They make a fresh first pair of serious cans, and to me are incredibly comfortable.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Creative Aurvana Live is like a baby DT770 Pro 80, and doesn't scale much with amping. They're also heavily discounted at times. They make a fresh first pair of serious cans, and to me are incredibly comfortable.


 


   
  I don't live in the US so I probably won't get much discounts
  btw any of you know a good place to order headphones internationally ?


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 needs an amp. Only those who run it ampless would think it doesn't. It IS easy to drive in terms of the popular Beyers, but it's bass sounds incredibly bloated without an amp, and mids are very thin, and treble very harsh. If you're going unamped, te DT770 Pro 80s are just gonna be sad for not getting proper power.


 

 Hmmm I always thought the 770s bass issues were more an output impedance issue. Anyways, this is why try before you buy when possible is always a good idea for headphones.


----------



## psykoze

The post was wrote over 6 months ago.

 Is this still up to date?
 I mean i can't imagine there are not new ''good'' headsets.

 I'm also looking for a new headset but there are a few problems for me:

 1st i dont have any kind of amp, when looking on internet its hard to buy in the Netherlands.
 2nd i dont got a big budget 200 euro max, that is like 250dollars if i am correct.
 3rd. I like gaming , so most ofd you would say AD700 right? But the problem is that I hear alot of reviews that the music from it sucks.

 I would be verry pleased if people could advise me good headsets, i have been looking for 8 up to 10 hours.
 And the only thing I become whiser of is that I do want to soundwhore in games, but also want to enjoy music like a baws!

 Regards,
 PsyKoZe


----------



## genclaymore

The problem with the AD700 is it doesn't have hardly any bass. But music doesnt suck from it. It just not good for any thing that's bass heavy or have bass as the main beat.  The closed back A700 does have bass but at the cost of the sound stage being smaller then the open back AD700.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> The post was wrote over 6 months ago.
> 
> Is this still up to date?
> I mean i can't imagine there are not new ''good'' headsets.
> ...


 

 MLE has gone back and updated the first post a few times since it was posted. Also gaming headsets don't exactly come out every week, especially not the high profile companies we like to look at who spend years on R&D. There aren't a whole lot of top tier headphones that don't essentially require an amp but my sub $200 setup will be my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80ohms with a Antlion ModMic when it arrives. That way I'll effectively have a headset without paying a big premium for something like the MX300. Of course I'm biased here so take it with a grain of salt, I hope to get a better feel for them amp'd when my E17 from Miccastore comes this week. They're 80ohm so they don't have a whole lot of volume issues unlike most higher impedance cans, however they are a little picky about their source. One time I plugged them into an older Dell laptop for fun and had no volume issues, but they sounded worse than my $20 and falling apart Creative Fatal1ty headset. Should meet your needs for both gaming and music, though the 990s best them noticeably in SQ but will require an amp. If your budget was a little higher (and I'm sure shipping to Europe raises the prices a lot) you could do something like 880/990+E17+Xonar+ModMic


----------



## psykoze

The problem is: My parents, yea sigh, but they pay it for me as a gift.
 So i cant buy any good amp like the one from astro ect.

 But I did find a site were i could buy this one :
 Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro the 250 ohm

 For the rest the PC 360 is availible and the AD700 and the Sennheiser 598.

 But you did talk alot about the ''more geekie way'' (No i am not hating, i just dont understand what you mean)
 I am not that formilliar with all the technical specs.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mysterious* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also i agree that the dt990 are superior to the dt 770 in every way but i don't have the space (since they are open back) *nor the amp to power them properly !*


 

 I have to disagree with this. I run the 990 pro on the Fiio E6 and for the time beeing this is absolutely sufficient. It might not satisfy some people on here, but for people just getting into good headphones (like me) this absolutely works and is a good enough setup to have some fun with imho.
   
  This however brings me to the question if I should get the Astro Mixamp pro instead of the Fiio E17. Are those 2 comparable? I am still confused what´s a DAC and what´s an amp and all that...
  I will be using the Amp/DAC (or whatever) like 85 % of the time with my TV (Blu Ray, Xbox, digital cable box - all digital outs) that has no digital outs and 15 % with either my iPod/iPhone or my MacBook for music or DVDs.
  And just from looking at it and going through it´s features I find the Astro Mixamp pretty interesting... but hard to tell for me right now what best would suits me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So got my replacement Vita. The black spotting is STILL an issue, though my newer Vita has significantly less of the spotting, and mostly off to the sides. I'm conviced it's just something that I'm sure everyone who knows what to look for will find on theirs. I'll keep the second one.

I'll chalk it up to OLED's not being perfectly uniform with it's blacks in a very dark room. Normally, not an issue with others, but my main time playing with the Vita WILL be in the dark... can't have it all.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> The problem is: My parents, yea sigh, but they pay it for me as a gift.
> So i cant buy any good amp like the one from astro ect.
> 
> But I did find a site were i could buy this one :
> ...


 
   
  Here's your issue, for gaming you will want a soundcard like an Asus Xonar that does Dolby Headphone. That costs extra $$ on top of the headphones. For clarity with nice headphones you will want an amp. That also costs extra $$$. To get a headset rather than headphones, you will need to pay for an attachment microphone like an Antlion ModMic. Which again, costs $$.

 It's going to be difficult to purchase the *complete* setup all at once with only $200. My advice would be to get a good pair of headphones and an amp for music, and later when you have more money buy a microphone and soundcard for gaming.


----------



## psykoze

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Here's your issue, for gaming you will want a soundcard like an Asus Xonar that does Dolby Headphone. That costs extra $$ on top of the headphones. For clarity with nice headphones you will want an amp. That also costs extra $$$. To get a headset rather than headphones, you will need to pay for an attachment microphone like an Antlion ModMic. Which again, costs $$.
> 
> It's going to be difficult to purchase the *complete* setup all at once with only $200. My advice would be to get a good pair of headphones and an amp for music, and later when you have more money buy a microphone and soundcard for gaming.


 

 By the way, i think you mis read it: its 200 euros not dollars. But i digged more into it and i found several things out:

 In the Netherlands i found a ( what i think a decent amp)
   -Zalman ZM-RSA Headphone Amplifier Extern which is 40 euros
    -ASUS Xonar DG which is 20 euro's

 I can reach over the max of 200 euros but not that much.
 So there is a headset availible for  140 up to 180 euro's that is 182 up to 234 dollars.
  
  Beyerdynamic  DT 990 Pro    /DT 770-M (both same price)
 Sennheiser  HD 598
 PC 360 G4ME
 Or the AD700


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> By the way, i think you mis read it: its 200 euros not dollars. But i digged more into it and i found several things out:
> 
> In the Netherlands i found a ( what i think a decent amp)
> -Zalman ZM-RSA Headphone Amplifier Extern which is 40 euros
> ...


 

 DT 770-M is for drumming so NO
 Why don't you get the CAL's ?
 Its pretty highly recommended for a cheap gaming can and use the remaining money on an amp 
 Also the Xonar DG is an excellent choice for an entry level soundcard ( thats what the people here recommended me for a good entry level soundcard)


----------



## psykoze

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> DT 770-M is for drumming so NO
> Why don't you get the CAL's ?
> Its pretty highly recommended for a cheap gaming can and use the remaining money on an amp
> Also the Xonar DG is an excellent choice for an entry level soundcard ( thats what the people here recommended me for a good entry level soundcard)


 

 Alright, thats usefull to know that i am right with the Xonar DG, thanks alot!

 Can i ask you what CAL's are?


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> Can i ask you what CAL's are?


 


  http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330115108&sr=8-1


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> Alright, thats usefull to know that i am right with the Xonar DG, thanks alot!
> 
> Can i ask you what CAL's are?


 
  Forgot to ask what are you looking for? Do you want balanced sound, slammin bass? What do you listen to music wise? Gaming wise
   
  This is what I would suggest as a starting point:
 Get the DG and the HD598. The HD598 will run off anything. I could be wrong but the Creative's are going to be just as difficult to find in the Netherlands as they are in Canada. If you can get them it is another excellent choice. Also look at Samson SR850/Superlux668B if you can get access to them. The 668B's sound very very close to a Beyer DT990. They don't quite have the depth and control of bass as the Beyers do. Easily one of my favorite headphones. Super easy to drive.
  Yes the Beyers do improve with an amp no they don't need one if you are just starting out. If you got a DG it has more then enough power to use up to 250ohm and possibly 600ohm.(Might be iffy.)


----------



## psykoze

l00l said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330115108&sr=8-1






hailin said:


> Forgot to ask what are you looking for? Do you want balanced sound, slammin bass? What do you listen to music wise? Gaming wise
> 
> This is what I would suggest as a starting point:
> 
> ...




Guess what! I found the Turtle Beach DSS amp on a good Dutch site! 
That made me think about myself, i think imma raise the budget!

I want in a headset:
1- soundwhoring in games, that i can hear the enemy so well ect.
2- Music, I listen to music verry often so thats also really important.

And yes i read reviews about CAL but they dont appeal to me. (Dont know why)

I was thinking about this set up:
Xonar DG. 30 euros
TB DSS amp 75 eu. 
PC350/ HD595 / AD700.

But the two headsets you linked are accesable in the Netherlands atleast the superdeluxe, but its only 30 euro's. How can that be better than a PC360 ect. ?


----------



## psykoze

Sorry for double post, my mobile spaced!


----------



## l00l

@psykoze
  Is gaming your first priority? Do you want to use your setup for competitive gaming?
   
  I am kinda thinking Astro Mixamp Pro for my Beyer DT 990 pro right now - for gaming, movies, little bit of music.


----------



## psykoze

I can't really say, I do play alot of games esspecially FPS.

But music is also verry important to me. 

So i really want both at the best way possible.


Unfortunatly i cant buy the astro amp, its not availlible in the Netherlands. =(


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> Guess what! I found the Turtle Beach DSS amp on a good Dutch site!
> That made me think about myself, i think imma raise the budget!
> I want in a headset:
> 1- soundwhoring in games, that i can hear the enemy so well ect.
> ...


 

 Soundwhoring on console or pc? Or both?
   
  I would still say Sens. You really don't want the AD700 for general music.
  PC350 take to much modding to make them sound good.
  So HD595, HD558, HD598 I would research those.


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> I can't really say, I do play alot of games esspecially FPS.
> But music is also verry important to me.
> So i really want both at the best way possible.
> Unfortunatly i cant buy the astro amp, its not availlible in the Netherlands. =(


 


  what type of music? You might not like the sound signature of the senns for music.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> I'm also looking for a new headset but there are a few problems for me:
> 1st i dont have any kind of amp, when looking on internet its hard to buy in the Netherlands.
> 2nd i dont got a big budget 200 euro max, that is like 250dollars if i am correct.
> 3rd. I like gaming , so most ofd you would say AD700 right? But the problem is that I hear alot of reviews that the music from it sucks.
> ...


 

 The ATH-AD700 has some good point, great for easy listening
  or watching TV or a movie where the only important thing is hearing the vocals.
  It just it's light bass, there is so much stuff that sound better when you have full bass.
  Anyway something like the Samson SR850 is a good low cost all around semi-open headphone for someone without an amp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> By the way, i think you mis read it: its 200 euros not dollars. But i digged more into it and i found several things out:
> In the Netherlands i found a ( what i think a decent amp)
> -Zalman ZM-RSA Headphone Amplifier Extern which is 40 euros
> -ASUS Xonar DG which is 20 euro's
> ...


 
  How about getting the Senn HD-558 and buy a separate mic?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psykoze said:


> Guess what! I found the Turtle Beach DSS amp on a good Dutch site!
> That made me think about myself, i think imma raise the budget!
> I want in a headset:
> 1- soundwhoring in games, that i can hear the enemy so well ect.
> ...


 

 I own the CALs, worked great until I broke one of the cups off, nice sound.
  But the cups are small, the diaphragm seem to be about 1mm from your ear, not something I would want to wear for long periods of time.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I own the CALs, worked great until I broke one of the cups off, nice sound.
> But the cups are small, the diaphragm seem to be about 1mm from your ear, not something I would want to wear for long periods of time.


 


  That is some great info. Now I can scratch them off my list and bump getting a pair of Portapros ahead of them.


----------



## ninjikiran

Since I re-ordered the mixamp I decided to get them with the astro headphones just for sake of curiosity.
   
  They are far worst than the 770's and antlion mic mod.


----------



## Rebel975

Yep, they sound horrible. The build quality is very sub-par as well.


----------



## arnesto

I want to get a gaming headset for the PS3.
   
  I was thinking of getting the Mixamp Pro and the Sennheiser PC360.
   
  Before I pull the trigger, do you think that would be the best combo?
   
  Someone was saying the A40 headphones are better.
   
  Any other suggestions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Whomever told you the A40s are better clearly don't know what they're talking about. The PC360 and MMX300 are the two best headsets on the market, no gimmicks.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So got my replacement Vita. The black spotting is STILL an issue, though my newer Vita has significantly less of the spotting, and mostly off to the sides. I'm conviced it's just something that I'm sure everyone who knows what to look for will find on theirs. I'll keep the second one.
> I'll chalk it up to OLED's not being perfectly uniform with it's blacks in a very dark room. Normally, not an issue with others, but my main time playing with the Vita WILL be in the dark... can't have it all.


 

 How are you spotting them? Is it like backlight bleed on an lcd? I've had my Vita since last week and haven't really noticed anything. As long as it's something I can replicate that doesn't involve Uncharted because I traded that game in a few days ago.


----------



## psykoze

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Soundwhoring on console or pc? Or both?
> 
> I would still say Sens. You really don't want the AD700 for general music.
> PC350 take to much modding to make them sound good.
> So HD595, HD558, HD598 I would research those.


 


   


  Quote: 





weez82 said:


> what type of music? You might not like the sound signature of the senns for music.


 


 Its mostly the top-40 music so a mix of dance ect,
 I also like to listen reggea allot


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> How are you spotting them? Is it like backlight bleed on an lcd? I've had my Vita since last week and haven't really noticed anything. As long as it's something I can replicate that doesn't involve Uncharted because I traded that game in a few days ago.




Find a completely black image or very dark background. Now view them while you yourself are in a very dark room with almost no ambient light. You should see some black spotting on the screen.

Looks like the adhesive used to bond the screen or something.

The boot up screen with the PS logo shows this as well, but it goes by too quickly.


----------



## Drastion

psykoze said:


> Guess what! I found the Turtle Beach DSS amp on a good Dutch site!
> That made me think about myself, i think imma raise the budget!
> I want in a headset:
> 1- soundwhoring in games, that i can hear the enemy so well ect.
> ...





If you are going to be playing on pc and getting the sound card. You have no reason to get the dss. It will give you the same effect your sound card will. Its not ment to be a desktop amp. So I doubt it would power headphones much better than the sound card.

Unless you want to also game on consoles and your computer does not already have optical out stick with just the sound card.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Find a completely black image or very dark background. Now view them while you yourself are in a very dark room with almost no ambient light. You should see some black spotting on the screen.
> Looks like the adhesive used to bond the screen or something.
> The boot up screen with the PS logo shows this as well, but it goes by too quickly.


 

 Ah okay, I see them now. Pumping up the brightness to max made it more visible. I have 2 spots about the size of a grain of rice on the left half and a few specs here and there. It's really no biggy for me since all the games I've been playing have a pretty vibrant color palette and the only time they are apparent is when it is completely black and in a pitch black room. I also turn the brightness to its almost lowest setting while playing games to reduce eye fatigue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I usually play at the lowest brightness myself.

Mine is more than a few specks but I'll have to live with it as the first one was horrible, and don't wanna take another chance and getting another bad one. Just one of those things we have to live with. It just really irks me during semi dark scenes. Looks like the screen has dust in it or something.


----------



## psykoze

drastion said:


> If you are going to be playing on pc and getting the sound card. You have no reason to get the dss. It will give you the same effect your sound card will. Its not ment to be a desktop amp. So I doubt it would power headphones much better than the sound card.
> Unless you want to also game on consoles and your computer does not already have optical out stick with just the sound card.





Ahh so you only need an amp if you play on consoles?


----------



## calpis

Yeah, I went back and looked at the picture you took and that thing was half covered in black splotches when it should've been a dark grey. My phone has an amoled screen and its perfectly uniform dark grey.


----------



## calpis

Here are your options to get Dolby Headphone out of your computer:
  a sound card that has Dolby Headphone built-in -> Amp (optional) -> Headphones
  a sound card that outputs a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal via optical -> DSS or Mixamp -> Amp (optional) -> Headphones
   
  Here are your options to get Dolby Headphone out of your console:
  console connected to a DSS or Mixamp or a Receiver that has support for virtual surround headphones (sony, yamaha, harmon kardon) -> Amp (optional) -> Headphones
   
  This is an over simplified explanation but this is what you basically need.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That picture wasn't of my Vita. I'd have raged if it was. Though it was pretty bad itself. I don't think I'll ever be happy with the Vita because of this issue (It screams out at me, lol), so if and whenever Sony fixes this issue, I'll be the first one to get the newer one.


----------



## l00l

Can anybody comment on the Astro Mixam pro? Is it worth the money?
  I would run ith with my blu ray player (coaxial), cable box and xbox (both optical out). I could connect it to my TV via RCA as well.
   
  Is it really actually improving sound quality for gaming/movies? Does the Dolby headphone thing work well? Does it have a positive impact on sound quality?
   
  I am torn between Mixamp Pro and Fiio E17 right now.


----------



## psykoze

calpis said:


> Here are your options to get Dolby Headphone out of your computer:
> a sound card that has Dolby Headphone built-in -> Amp (optional) -> Headphones
> a sound card that outputs a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal via optical -> DSS or Mixamp -> Amp (optional) -> Headphones
> 
> ...




That was a really good explenation! Thanks alot!
So i dont need the DSS when i buy the Xonar DG


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

l00l said:


> Can anybody comment on the Astro Mixam pro? Is it worth the money?
> I would run ith with my blu ray player (coaxial), cable box and xbox (both optical out). I could connect it to my TV via RCA as well.
> 
> Is it really actually improving sound quality for gaming/movies? Does the Dolby headphone thing work well? Does it have a positive impact on sound quality?
> ...




Yes Dolby Headphone works extremely well. For your needs, it's more beneficial than the E17.

BTW the wired Mixamps (like the pro) has a hierarchy on what is outputting sound...

1. Optical
2. Digital Coaxial
3. RCA

So if all three are plugged into the Mixamp and are on at the same time, the Mixamp will play the optical's sound, and so forth. You have to turn off whatever is on the optical input to get the coaxial's sound, and turn off both optical and coaxial to get the RCA's sound. ONLY use the RCA input for something like the Wii or something unimportant like the TV's RCA (make sure that if you're using the TV, turn off Dolby headphone) since RCA is 2 channel (stereo), unless specified as having Dolby Pro Logic II, like the Wii or PS2.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes Dolby Headphone works extremely well. For your needs, it's more beneficial than the E17.
> BTW the wired Mixamps (like the pro) has a hierarchy on what is outputting sound...
> 1. Optical
> 2. Digital Coaxial
> ...


 


  Thanks for your helpful comment! 
  I don´t think I will run into much hassel with the output hierarchy though. If I play Xbox (optical) I don´t do anything else and if I watch Blu Ray (via coaxial) I don´t do anything else as well. 
  So RCA is really just for normal everyday TV use and I don´t really use my headphones there. Only when I wanna watch a movie and even then I might just switch the optical cable to the cable box instead of the Xbox. A 2nd optical input on the Astro Mixamp would be great though, cause that would really cover ALL my devices digitally. But I guess that is too much to ask. I was very surprised that the Astro Mixamp has a coaxial input, that itself is already pretty awsome!!
   
  The E17 obviously has an advantage over the Astro Mixam Pro by beeing portable and beein able to process a digtal signal via USB from my computer, but would the E17 also have any advantage over the Astro Mixamp when I use it for movies and gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The E17 is better for music and non-surround sound applications, but for your needs, you'll get much more out of the Mixamp.

I like that it has coaxial, but a second optical would've been better. EVERYTHING has optical nowadays... :rolleyes:

That and they should add an input selector somewhere...





OMG, Amazon ran out of Mass Effect 3 Collector's Edition pre-orders. I wanna cry... tears of crimson.


----------



## Drastion

psykoze said:


> Ahh so you only need an amp if you play on consoles?




You only really need an amp when you get hard to drive headphones. The gd soundcard will do you fine. Your best bet would be the sennheiser pc360. All you need for a headphone for gaming and better all arounder than the ad700.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B003DA4D2U/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1330169844&sr=8-1


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. The E17 is better for music and non-surround sound applications, but for your needs, you'll get much more out of the Mixamp.
> I like that it has coaxial, but a second optical would've been better. EVERYTHING has optical nowadays...


 

 Everything except my Blu Ray player for some reason...
   
  Well, than I´ll go for the Astro Mixamp pro. I just hope that it won´t turn out as much as a disappointment as the whole Dolby Digtal headset (like the Tritton AX 720) crap was. I was hoping for big things there cause of the whole dolby digital feature, but it plainly sucked.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's the SAME thing. The box that comes with the AX720 is literally the same as the Mixamp. You know, you could've plugged in other headphones to that box (the puck on the cable splits to reveal two standard jacks, one for headphones, one for mics).

If you didin't like what the surround sound did, you won't like it with the Mixamp, though the AX720 isn't exactly the best headphone to showcase Dolby Headphone.

BTW, most Blu-Rays do DTS, NOT Dolby Digital, so Dolby headphone WON'T work properly, as it's just expanding stereo with Blu-Rays. With DVDs however, most have Dolby Digital, which obviously works.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's the SAME thing. The box that comes with the AX720 is literally the same as the Mixamp. You know, you could've plugged in other headphones to that box (the puck on the cable splits to reveal two standard jacks, one for headphones, one for mics).
> If you didin't like what the surround sound did, you won't like it with the Mixamp, though the AX720 isn't exactly the best headphone to showcase Dolby Headphone.
> BTW, most Blu-Rays do DTS, NOT Dolby Digital, so Dolby headphone WON'T work properly, as it's just expanding stereo with Blu-Rays. With DVDs however, most have Dolby Digital, which obviously works.


 


  Oh boy, that´s getin more and more complicated by the minute! 
   
  But even for Blu Ray, the Amp will still work, right? With dolby headphone deactivated.
   
  And just for clarification: With the AX720 I didn´t like the sound of the headphones at all. I wasn´t really able to tell how good or bad the surround sound was since I couldn´t get past the overall bad sound quality.


----------



## psykoze

drastion said:


> You only really need an amp when you get hard to drive headphones. The gd soundcard will do you fine. Your best bet would be the sennheiser pc360. All you need for a headphone for gaming and better all arounder than the ad700.
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B003DA4D2U/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1330169844&sr=8-1




Thanks alot man!

But if i dont need an amp, wouldn"t it be better if i get an better soundcard?
I mean if that would improve my sound even more?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

l00l said:


> Oh boy, that´s getin more and more complicated by the minute!
> 
> But even for Blu Ray, the Amp will still work, right? With dolby headphone deactivated.
> 
> And just for clarification: With the AX720 I didn´t like the sound of the headphones at all. I wasn´t really able to tell how good or bad the surround sound was since I couldn´t get past the overall bad sound quality.




Yes, it's still an amp. You just won't be getting the real Dolby Headphone with the option turned on for Blu-Rays that output DTS (which is the vast majority). I don't know how your player works, but you may have to manually switch it to 2 channel/Stereo/PCM, as with a DTS signal, you won't get any audio from the Mixamp. If anything, you can still use the audio out from the TV to get audio from your Blu-Rays.

Oh yes.. in terms of personal use... I'd say that I use my Mixamp about 20 times more than my actual headphone amp/dacs. That's how much I rely on it. As a gamer, it is simply indispensable to me.

I'm VERY sad that the Vita is stereo only. Uncharted sounds so.. restricted in sound compared to it's console brethren, simply because I can't use virtual surround. I have no freaking idea how anyone could think stereo is better for games.... It's like going deaf in one ear.


----------



## l00l

@mad lust envy
  So from your (qualified) point of view, it is definetly worth getting the Mixamp Pro for gaming and movies with the Beyers 990 pro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. I'd personally go for the non-Pro because it's not as heavy on the mid bass, but for those that love that whopping mid bass, the Pros are exceptional. At the $175 tag that the Pros go for at times, they get my full recommendation over any other sub-$200 can I've tried.


----------



## SniperCzar

I've been using my new E17 since yesterday with the virtual surround coming out of my X-Fi over optical and it sounds pretty fantastic on my 770s, the amp really did make them even more directional and they were already NUTS before!


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm VERY sad that the Vita is stereo only. Uncharted sounds so.. restricted in sound compared to it's console brethren, simply because I can't use virtual surround. I have no freaking idea how anyone could think stereo is better for games.... It's like going deaf in one ear.


 

 It got really annoying whenever Drake would talk, his voice would modulate(?) back and forth between the left and right channel real quickly. I thought it was because I was in a cave but it happened in every environment.


----------



## ninjikiran

I am going to darth my beyers anyway which is supposed to bring a bit more to them.


----------



## rabinzero

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  OK, so after reading tons and TONS of info on this thread and finding myself agreeing a lot with Mad Lust Envy's opinions on headphones and seeing that I also favored Chicolom's reviews, I got a pair of AKG Q701's.  Talk about absolute gaming headphone beasts!!!  What Mad Lust said about the K701's peeked my interest and had me looking past Sennheiser headphones.  Since the Denon AH-D7000's are out of my reach right now, I wanted to find something I could game with and be overly satisfied and the Q701's did just that.  Chicolom has a great review on them and I agree with it 100%.  Thank you both for your feedback on all the headphones you have tested and thank this community for sharing their thoughts on other headphones as well.


----------



## Drastion

psykoze said:


> Thanks alot man!
> But if i dont need an amp, wouldn"t it be better if i get an better soundcard?
> I mean if that would improve my sound even more?




As far as dolby headphone its going to use the same chip so I dont think it will help much. Honestly though you better off going to this link as its all about dolby headphone on pc where here its mostly console gamers.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm VERY sad that the Vita is stereo only. Uncharted sounds so.. restricted in sound compared to it's console brethren, simply because I can't use virtual surround. I have no freaking idea how anyone could think stereo is better for games.... It's like going deaf in one ear.


 

 That's a shame. I'm wondering why binaural audio over headphones hasn't caught on in the handheld 3D gaming space; perhaps it's because there isn't a popular, established middleware like FMOD that offers such a mixing option, and game developers tend to treat sound as an afterthought.


----------



## psykoze

Hello all!

 First of all i want to thank you all!
 All your advices and information were/are verry usefull!

 I ordered the PC360+Xonar DG

 And bought a Koss KCS75 for the lulz (19 euros and that good recommandation, i gotta try =D)
  
  Thanks agian all!


----------



## l00l

How about a cheapish (€ 200) AV receiver instead of the Astro Mixamp Pro? Or is any AV receiver without dolby headphone pretty much useless if you plug headphones into it? 
  The cheapest receiver with dolby headphone I found was more like € 400. That´s too much for me.


----------



## NamelessPFG

The problem, as you said, is that most receivers DON'T have Dolby Headphone or an equivalent feature (Yamaha touts Silent Cinema in its place, for instance).
   
  I actually did consider picking up a Harman/Kardon AVR 254 or AVR 354 on the cheap from eBay, but then thought that as a Dolby Headphone DSP that won't have speakers connected to it, it's just too heavy and bulky to keep around, so I instead took the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 route (and if that wasn't available, I would've considered a Mixamp Pro instead).


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The problem, as you said, is that most receivers DON'T have Dolby Headphone or an equivalent feature (Yamaha touts Silent Cinema in its place, for instance).
> 
> I actually did consider picking up a Harman/Kardon AVR 254 or AVR 354 on the cheap from eBay, but then thought that as a Dolby Headphone DSP that won't have speakers connected to it, it's just too heavy and bulky to keep around, so I instead took the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 route (and if that wasn't available, I would've considered a Mixamp Pro instead).


 

 NamelessPFG, I'm interested in the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 because I'm currently using a Tritton AX720 decoder box with my AKG Q701's and while it's good, I want something with a bit more options and the JVC looks to have just that?  How would you say the quality is?  No hissing, weird pops or anything like that?  Push headphones nicely?


----------



## Drastion

Has anyone tried a pair of m-audio q40 with dolby headphone. Read that they dont have great soundstage. Im not quite sure if the person was comparing to open headphones or closed headphones in general.

Its either these or a krk kns 8400. But they seem to be close to the q701 which might be a good thing. Also looking at the ultrasone pro 550. Though I cant find much info on them.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> NamelessPFG, I'm interested in the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 because I'm currently using a Tritton AX720 decoder box with my AKG Q701's and while it's good, I want something with a bit more options and the JVC looks to have just that?  How would you say the quality is?  No hissing, weird pops or anything like that?  Push headphones nicely?


 

 First off, good luck getting one! The SU-DH1 is a discontinued device and only shows up on eBay occasionally. I'm guessing this is because the DSP chip it's based on has been discontinued and replaced with a simplified DSP that only offers DH2 mode, hence why the Astro Mixamp and Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS only offer DH2 as well.
   
  Second, only the Japanese Victor-branded variants have the AC adapter port. (I was lucky enough to get one of these with a compatible AC adapter.) For some reason, the US JVC-branded ones don't have it, so you'll have to keep a stockpile of AA batteries around.
   
  As for hissing, unfortunately, I did notice a bit of that using my Panasonic HTF600, which I guess would be significantly more sensitive than an AKG Q701. However, here's the weird part-it seems to be more noticeable over PCM or analog (for Pro Logic II sources) compared to Dolby Digital or DTS signals. I don't know why-could be a quirk of the hardware. Unfortunately, I don't have any other headphones I can reasonably use with it, certainly not my Stax Lambda, and I don't think Sansui SS-20 impressions count for much around here.
   
  At the very least, the Dolby Headphone effect is, well, effective, and it's quite flexible in that it accepts DTS sources and Pro Logic II-encoded analog sources in addition to supporting the other two DH modes.


----------



## calpis

I'm actually really curious on how the Q701 compares to my Pro2900. I've always wanted to try the K701 but never got around to it and had already fallen for the Ultrasone signature.
   
  I was fortunate enough to pick up a Harman Kardon avr-254 from a friend by trading my aiaiai tma-1's to him which only cost me $150. I upgraded from a yamaha and I feel that DH is significantly better in gaming compared to Silent Cinema. I think my problem with Silent Cinema was that there were so many modes for it that I couldn't find one that suited me. Also, it never remembered my last setting so I always had to cycle through them and I had an issue with the 1080p pass through too. I game with speakers and headphones so the avr-254 was perfect for me. It's also near dead silent until I turn it up to like -11db, I game at around -15db and that's already pretty loud.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The problem, as you said, is that most receivers DON'T have Dolby Headphone or an equivalent feature (Yamaha touts Silent Cinema in its place, for instance).
> 
> I actually did consider picking up a Harman/Kardon AVR 254 or AVR 354 on the cheap from eBay, but then thought that as a Dolby Headphone DSP that won't have speakers connected to it, it's just too heavy and bulky to keep around, so I instead took the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 route (and if that wasn't available, I would've considered a Mixamp Pro instead).


 


  So I guess that isn´t an option then. All the receivers that offer Dolby Headphone are just too damn expensive for me.
   
  Man, I reall just want something that drives my Beyers 990 pro properly!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get a Mixamp or DSS2 and have fun.


----------



## calpis

I think I'm going to try some serious FPS with my Sextetts next week, I keep forgetting I have these.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just get a Mixamp or DSS2 and have fun.


 


  Well maybe I am just making things too complicated


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the purpose of gaming and movies, that is all you need.

In other news, 

So it seems that Dreamworks Blu-Rays (like Puss N Boots), use Dolby True HD, so Dolby Headphone devices WILL work properly on those. I'm watching that movie now with my D7000/Mixamp, and it sounds AWESOME. Just like a movie theater.


----------



## l00l

And if it doesn´t work I still get the enhanced signal through the Amp, but without Dolby Headphone? Or will this be just the exact same signal I get out of my TV headphone jack/RCA outputs?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mix*AMP*. It IS an amp. It actually is quite capable, volume wise. It just hissy in comparison to real headphone amps.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For the purpose of gaming and movies, that is all you need.
> In other news,
> So it seems that Dreamworks Blu-Rays (like Puss N Boots), use Dolby True HD, so Dolby Headphone devices WILL work properly on those. I'm watching that movie now with my D7000/Mixamp, and it sounds AWESOME. Just like a movie theater.


 

 Those of us on PC can actually get DH out of most audio formats via MPC-HC. Takes a ton of effort to do the initial setup though.


----------



## Eric_C

Just discovered that the USB port on the Xbox is super noisy (am using it to power my pre-2010 MixAmp). Either that, or I somehow had my audio setup wrong, because with DH on and Asura's Wrath playing, there was distortion all around.


----------



## ninjikiran

About the mixamp~
   
  Comparing the original to the new one, it seems to be a more powerful headphone amp.  Its driving my 770's to levels that the original did not.  There is also less of a veil, but compared to my bifrost holy ssssssssssssssssssssssssssibilance when it comes to music.
   
  Obviously thats what I have the bifrost for, music and 2.0 home theater. But besides the sibilance issues its still not a huge degradation, long as the vocals have no sssssssssssssssssss.
   
  As far as audible noise levels, the original did not have much if any(depending on setup).  The new one seems quieter.
   
  It could just be audio amnesia but I think they made a few under the hood upgrades.  I am yet to connect my LCD-2's to them because the adapter I got from monoprice doesnt seem to fit the full connector.
   
  On another note, it takes mea year from when I say I am going to do it to when I actually do.  I am totally going to darth the 770's.  Over getting the d7000


----------



## Mastakilla

Thanks a lot Mad Lust Envy for this awesome thread!
   
  I've spend the last couple weeks reading A LOT on this forum and your thread has the honor of getting my first round of questions 
   
  I've starting looking into these headphones since I got a bit too much complaints from the neighbours 
   
  I will be using the headphones for  gaming / music / cinema (all using my PC) with Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D Headphone.
  I don't do competitive gaming, but I do play FPS (so a little accuracy is welcome  )
  I listen to hip hop / jazz / blues / funk / soul / other old music / minimal techno / various other kinds of non-commercial electronic music
  I watch most genres of movies (as long as they're good)
   
  I'm not sure yet how I will drive these headphones.
  My initial plan was to buy a decent receiver (like the Onkyo TX-NR609/709) and use my ATI Radeon HD5870 to send all sound bit streamed over HDMI. This ideal for movies with Dolby TrueHD and stuff, but apparently hardly any receiver supports Dolby Headphone.
  So I still need to figure that part out later... (I do prefer not having to buy a separate amp, as I'll already spend enough money on an amp for my surround speakers  )
   
  Back to the headphones, these are the possible candidates I had in my mind:
   
  1) Sennheiser HD598
  + doesn't really need a separate amp to be driven
  + remains comfortable, also after a long time
  + very nice / pleasant all round sound
  - might have a little too little bass for hip hop / action movies
   
  2) BeyerDynamic DT880
  + doesn't have too little bass or too much treble
  - hard to drive, needs extra amp
  - bad positioning from behind
  - not cheap
  ? couldn't find how comfortable these are in long term
   
  3) BeyerDynamic DT990
  +/- strong bass (some even say too strong, as it gives them a headache when listening too long)
  - hard to drive, needs extra amp
  - less comfortable when wearing longtime
  - too much treble for some
   
  4) AKG Q701
  + doesn't have too little bass or too much treble
  ? I'm not sure if these really need an extra amp or not
  - less comfortable when wearing longtime (could be fixable by a mod)
  - expensive
   
  Now my questions:
  1) When using an open headphone at a loud, but still comfortable, volume, how strong is the bass then compared to satellite speakers at low volume? My neighbours are sleeping behind the wall where my TV, computer and Keff Satellite speakers stand and apparently the bass goes through the wall pretty easy... I know these open headphones don't isolate much sound, but I still don't have a clue if there is any risk they could even hear my headphones through the wall...
  2) The Sennheiser HD598 seems like the safest buy to me. The only possible downside is the bass. I was wondering, if the low bass appears to be a problem for me, is it possible to fix this issue by using a software or hardware equalizer? Or will using an equalizer lessen other qualities of this headphone and perhaps make the bass overwhelm the high and mid tones? Is there a difference in outcome between a software or hardware equalizer?
   
  Thanks in advance for all awesome answers and tips


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> 1) Sennheiser HD598
> + doesn't really need a separate amp to be driven
> + remains comfortable, also after a long time
> + very nice / pleasant all round sound
> ...


 

 ad HD 598: I owned them for a couple of months and never thought the bass was too light. Then again, now I have the Beyer 990 pro and really appreciate the stronger bass, especially when watching movies with explosions and stuff. Couldn´t say that it is too strong.
   
  ad DT990 (Pro): I honestly don´t think they are that hard to drive. I drive them only with a Fiio E6 right now and that works well. But yeah, they are harder to drive than the HD 598, I can confirm that.
  Where do you get the "not comfortable" stuff from? I think they are very comfortable. No issues so far.
   
  And the bass on open headphones is not that strong that it should go through a wall, unless you have one of these Japanese paper walls.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





ninjikiran said:


> About the mixamp~
> 
> Comparing the original to the new one, it seems to be a more powerful headphone amp.  Its driving my 770's to levels that the original did not.  There is also less of a veil, but compared to my bifrost holy ssssssssssssssssssssssssssibilance when it comes to music.
> 
> Obviously thats what I have the bifrost for, music and 2.0 home theater. But besides the sibilance issues its still not a huge degradation, long as the vocals have no sssssssssssssssssss.


 


  You are talking about the Astro Mixamp pro, right? What do you mean by "sibilance issues"? Could you explain that a lil further? thanks


----------



## Mastakilla

Thanks for the answer!
   
  I know there are many mixed opinions on the bass of the HD598. It is just because I also listen a lot of hip hop, that I have a bit of doubts about it being ok for me.
  Probably it is just fine, but question 2) is there just in case it isn't 
   
  About being "hard to drive", I mean that it needs an extra amp, like your Fiio. I prefer something that can just be driven from the soundcard or receiver itself., as an extra amp would probably double the price. If it really is the best option for me, I might still consider buying an extra amp, but if possible , I prefer not 
   
  http://www.headphoneinfo.com/content/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Headphones-Review-867/Comfort.htm
  --> this is where I read about the comfort issues. I know these are just opinions and that it could be different for me, but still...
   
  I'll also try to go and listen to these headphones, but I think I will have trouble finding shops in Belgium that let you try all these headphones, so I'm not sure if I'll succeed.
   
  My walls also are not thin at all. Actually it is an extremely strong concrete wall that has destroyed my dads 35 year old Metabo Drill 
  But I guess my neighbours have a bit sensitive hearing 
  Or perhaps it is just the fact that their head, when sleeping, is probably about 1 meter away from my satellite speakers


----------



## ninjikiran

Listen to a female voice, or someone that makes a snake nose every time they talk. Sibilance is a natural part of life, just some audio equipment unintentionally amplify it to annoying levels.

 The original wired mixamp with the newer wired mixamp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> I've starting looking into these headphones since I got a bit too much complaints from the neighbours
> I will be using the headphones for  gaming / music / cinema (all using my PC) with Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D Headphone.
> I don't do competitive gaming, but I do play FPS (so a little accuracy is welcome  )
> I listen to hip hop / jazz / blues / funk / soul / other old music / minimal techno / various other kinds of non-commercial electronic music
> ...


 
  Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema which seems to compare well with Dolby Headphone. My Yamaha RX-V671 receiver does a great job of powering my DT990 Pro 250-Ohm.
  Great thing about the DT990 is it sounds like your in a movie theater (full bass & treble).
  My Sennheiser HD558s have nice all around sound, because it does not have the "full" bass and treble like the DT990, vocals are a little better.
  I find my Beyerdynamic DT770s & DT990s very comfortable.


----------



## Mastakilla

Thanks for the tip on Silent Cinema.
   
  I didn't find this back in NamelessPFG's thread (which I completely read 2 days ago - I know... crazy...)
  Is this Silent Cinema a "real" surround or a "made-up" surround? (I mean: if an opponent comes from behind you, do you hear him from behind? or does it just "randomly" positions sounds?)
   
  Does it work well with a PC? Does it need a DTS or other specific surround standard as input to the receiver? Or does it work as well with a 5.1 PCM input without any dolby stuff?
  (Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions here, but I still need to investigate more on this aspect and actually wanted to have this conversation in NamelessPFGs thread at a later point in time... but if you already have answers on this, they are offcourse more than welcome  )


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> Thanks for the tip on Silent Cinema.
> I didn't find this back in Nameless PFG's thread (which I completely read 2 days ago - I know... crazy...)
> Is this Silent Cinema a "real" surround or a "made-up" surround? (I mean: if an opponent comes from behind you, do you hear him from behind? or does it just "randomly" positions sounds?)
> Does it work well with a PC? Does it need a DTS or other specific surround standard as input to the receiver? Or does it work as well with a 5.1 PCM input without any Dolby stuff?
> (Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions here, but I still need to investigate more on this aspect and actually wanted to have this conversation in NamelessPFGs thread at a later point in time... but if you already have answers on this, they are off course more than welcome  )


 
  It's real surround sound as far as I can tell, I've never used it for gaming, but it's great for Blu-ray movies.
  I put the Blu-ray disk into my Panasonic Blu-ray player and plug my DT990 Pro 250-Ohm into the Yamaha and it's like I'm at the movie theater.
  9 out of 10 reviews on Silent Cinema are positive
  As far as I can tell, the Yamaha receivers support all the audio formats just as well as any other receiver brand.
  Full support for the latest Dolby Digital, just not Dolby Virtual Headphone, which Silent Cinema covers.
  The Yamaha RX-V667 and RX-A700 are the cheapest Yamaha receivers with the better speaker amplifiers.


----------



## SniperCzar

Hey MLE, think this optical switcher would actually work? It looks like it's pretty straightforward (all mechanical) so I doubt it'd interfere with the quality all that much. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> Thanks for the tip on Silent Cinema.
> 
> I didn't find this back in NamelessPFG's thread (which I completely read 2 days ago - I know... crazy...)
> Is this Silent Cinema a "real" surround or a "made-up" surround? (I mean: if an opponent comes from behind you, do you hear him from behind? or does it just "randomly" positions sounds?)


 

 Correct me if I am wrong, but all surround sound you hear through your headhones is "made up". This means that you have to have some device that mixes the sound and sends it to your headphones in an order that they appear to be surround sound, when acutally you only have 2 speakers of course (left and right). 
  There are only a hand full of "real" surround sound headsets (meaning multiple speakers on each side) and from what I´ve heard they just simply suck. So not an option.
   
  What I don´t get is this: People (including me) all want a good surround sound experience. Understandably so. But even now, when I just plug my headphones into the headphone jack (or RCA) of my TV I already get "surround sound". I mean technically I think it´s stereo of course, but if I play MW3 I still can tell if somebody is behind me or in front of me or if he is comming left or right around the corner, or if that fire is behind/in front, left or right of me. Same with movies: I can hear the a starship in Star Wars passing by just as I would in real life. So there must be some sort of processing already beeing done by my TV, Blu Ray Player, Xbox or whatever. Maybe somebody can explain that mystery to me


----------



## GotchaOpen

just a thank you for this thread, i've been reading the whole thing & learned a lot.  i went from having tb dx11's to getting some audio technicas ad700's.  even got the antlion modmic to go with it.  the dss w/ the 700's was a huge improvement over the tb's.  even when i turned on the xbox i could hear stuff that the tb's didn't, lol.  the only complaint i have about the 700's is my wife says they're too loud.  so now i'm on a quest for some closed cans also for gaming.  the dt 770's are on the list.  i looked on the beyer website & they have a limited edition 32 ohm 770 coming out in march.  i might wait for those.  has any1 tried the fischer audio/brainwavez w/ mixamp/dss for gaming?


----------



## Jechtstream

Lurking around these forums and this thread, I found a lot of good information about headphones that work well with gaming. I don't know where to ask and I don't want to be "that guy who making another 'What headphones should I get thread'", so I might as well ask here. I'm looking for an all around headphones for gaming and maybe music and movies. The details are here:
   
*Music genres: *Classical, rock, hip hop, pop, dubstep, some rap, generally anything, but heavy metal.
   
*Gaming genres/setup:* Anything really, mostly action adventure, platformers, FPS, TPS, RPGs hack n' slash, etc. Not much strategy games though, like RTS. Mostly consoles, Wii, PS3, PS2, thinking about a PC in the future.
   
*Budget:* Anything below $50 - $60 would be nice, it'll be my first headphones, so if I end up having issues with it or for some reason don't like using headphones, it would not be as much of an issue if I did spend over $100 for something I didn't like or was actually crappy, looking at you "gaming headsets".
   
*Notes:* - I'm not an audiophile by any means, well, as far as I know.
  - The closest to headphones I have used would be the ones in the medical clinics where they test your hearing and earbuds, which is where my interest in using earbuds/headphones began after listening to music and stuff on Youtube.
  - I used to look for "gaming headsets" which apparently after a ton of research are poor quality, high bass, only suitable for games and suck with almost everything else, branded, meaning more money for stuff that everyone buys, expensive, and have weird setups at times, when you could just plug it into a headphone jack on your TV which I found out yesterday.
  - I do not care about mics, at the moment, which is why I'm looking for a set of headphones not headsets.
  - I think I have issues with extremely high pitched noises, like when opening certain plastic packages, the little screeching sounds is really annoying for me.
   
*Products already looked at:* JVC HA RX700, Superlux 681 and 668B, Panasonic RP-HTF600S, Sennheiser HD201 and HD202 II (mostly as the really low cost headphones), Samson 850.
   
  The things about the headphones I already looked at is that the 668B is out of stock from Amazon, don't know about other retailers, and most are a little bass-y, but hey, it's my first time with headphones so I shouldn't really judge, but try them out and find a reference point.


----------



## Eric_C

Question on MixAmp Pro (pre-2010) power requirements:
  I think I've figured out why the power was so "noisy" out of my Xbox's USB port--I had a controller plugged into the next USB port, which is why I only noticed all the distortion in the audio now.
  I'm thinking of powering the MixAmp by using either an iPad or iPhone wall wart charger; does anyone know the voltage / current requirements of a MixAmp? I don't want to blow the MixAmp or the charger.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but all surround sound you hear through your headhones is "made up". This means that you have to have some device that mixes the sound and sends it to your headphones in an order that they appear to be surround sound, when acutally you only have 2 speakers of course (left and right).
> There are only a hand full of "real" surround sound headsets (meaning multiple speakers on each side) and from what I´ve heard they just simply suck. So not an option.
> 
> What I don´t get is this: People (including me) all want a good surround sound experience. Understandably so. But even now, when I just plug my headphones into the headphone jack (or RCA) of my TV I already get "surround sound". I mean technically I think it´s stereo of course, but if I play MW3 I still can tell if somebody is behind me or in front of me or if he is comming left or right around the corner, or if that fire is behind/in front, left or right of me. Same with movies: I can hear the a starship in Star Wars passing by just as I would in real life. So there must be some sort of processing already beeing done by my TV, Blu Ray Player, Xbox or whatever. Maybe somebody can explain that mystery to me


 

 I00I, when your off your meds, you hear things that are not really there.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jechtstream said:


> Lurking around these forums and this thread, I found a lot of good information about headphones that work well with gaming. I don't know where to ask and I don't want to be "that guy who making another 'What headphones should I get thread'", so I might as well ask here. I'm looking for an all around headphones for gaming and maybe music and movies. The details are here:
> *Music genres: *Classical, rock, hip hop, pop, dubstep, some rap, generally anything, but heavy metal.
> *Gaming genres/setup:* Anything really, mostly action adventure, platformers, FPS, TPS, RPGs hack n' slash, etc. Not much strategy games though, like RTS. Mostly consoles, Wii, PS3, PS2, thinking about a PC in the future.
> *Budget:* Anything below $50 - $60 would be nice, it'll be my first headphones, so if I end up having issues with it or for some reason don't like using headphones, it would not be as much of an issue if I did spend over $100 for something I didn't like or was actually crappy, looking at you "gaming headsets".
> ...


 
  The Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) is a good all around headphone (semi-open) and the price is reasonable.
  Audiohipster (on eBay) stocks the HD-668B.


----------



## Jechtstream

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) is a good all around headphone (semi-open) and the price is reasonable.
> Audiohipster (on eBay) stocks the HD-668B.


 


  Thanks for the info. I should look into the Samson SR850, mostly seen some things about the others except the HTF600S and HA RX700, by headphone.com, Innerfidelty, and headfonia.com.


----------



## weez82

@ Mastakilla
   
  I had the HD598's and to be honest, they dont sound at all good listening to hip hop. The bass they produce lacks "punch" and imo takes the life out of the music. They worked great for gaming but that was about it. Now I have the 770 Pro 80's and am so glad I tried them. Movies and Music have life now because the bass they produce and that "punch" that is needed. Again, just my opinion. But if you want hip hop bass and movie bass to sound good, skip the senns


----------



## SniperCzar

I second the 770s. Epic entry level headphone for a good price. If you have the cash for an amp and don't care about being able to travel, get the 990s which sound better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sniperczar said:


> Hey MLE, think this optical switcher would actually work? It looks like it's pretty straightforward (all mechanical) so I doubt it'd interfere with the quality all that much. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946




Its cheap and broke on me in a few days of turning the knob. Avoid it.


----------



## arnesto

It seems like most people are using a Mixamp on the PS3, but what about using a USB microphone directly into your PS3.
   
  Then you don't have to buy a Mixamp or even gaming headphones.
   
  I was thinking this might be a budget solution if you want to chat and play a muti-player game.
   
  Has anyone tried this?
   
  If you have what are your recommendations?
   
  I was thinking of ordering the Zalman Zm Mic1 and the Syba USB Stereo Audio Adapter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp still serves a purpose for USB mics. You can adjust volume levels between game and voice. A very important and simple to use feature.


----------



## ninjikiran

The zalman mic is pretty bad, even with tweaking if picks up on ambient noises and has trouble picking up on your voice by design.
   
  Just 5 minutes of tweaking micmod(its quite sensitive initially) I was able to get an output that is mostly silent and most importantly my voice comes out extremely clear and audible by comparison.  It also clips onto your headphones easier.
   
  Soundly beats my USB logitech mic as well, it picked up my voice clearly as well as everything else behind me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Super Mario RPG Last Night a DJ Kidnapped Mallow OC ReMix


[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ufC_ogbRU[/VIDEO]

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01654/



God, I love this song, SO much. One of my fave RPGs with one of my fave remixes.


And another chill out song...

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEbLFbqcuO8[/VIDEO]

http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02053/




All about video game remixes, baby.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> Thanks for the tip on Silent Cinema.
> 
> I didn't find this back in NamelessPFG's thread (which I completely read 2 days ago - I know... crazy...)
> Is this Silent Cinema a "real" surround or a "made-up" surround? (I mean: if an opponent comes from behind you, do you hear him from behind? or does it just "randomly" positions sounds?)
> ...


 

 The reason I haven't really mentioned Silent Cinema much is simply lack of experience with it. I don't have an A/V receiver that has it, nor do I have any plans to get one.
   
  For PC use, though, I find it much more economical to just get a sound card.


----------



## DCB305

Anyone try the Steelseries Cross Platform Audio Mixer ( http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audiomixer ), I can't find any info on whether or not it does dolby headphone. If it does it seems like a economical ax720 decoder box and inline puck at $39.99. I do not think I have seen it mentioned here, so thought I would put it out there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That doesn't do any surround sound processing.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The reason I haven't really mentioned Silent Cinema much is simply lack of experience with it. I don't have an A/V receiver that has it, nor do I have any plans to get one.
> For PC use, though, I find it much more economical to just get a sound card.


 

 I have the Yamaha RX-V671 with the Silent Cinema, I usually use my DT990 Pro 250-Ohm plugged into it for Blu-ray Action movies.
  it sounds great!


----------



## DCB305

Just revisited it, it would only be beneficial to those with a TB DSS or DSS2 assuming it doesn't hinder SQ in anyway. It would basically turn that DSS into a ax720 mixamp with inline control.


----------



## calpis

I've bought the older steelseries audio mixer and returned it a day later. These things need usb power to work and every usb plug I plugged it into created so much hiss and static that it was completely unusable with any of my headphones. They might have fixed it with the new version but my hopes aren't high.


----------



## DCB305

I might give it a shot to hook it up to the TB DSS2, it would allow me to use the mic on the PC360 and I would like the convenience of controlling the the audio volume and voice volume independently on a puck (ala ax720) and it would also allow me to sit the DSS next to the PS3. Hopefully it wouldn't create any noise and keep the audio SQ of the DSS2. Just looking for an alternative for the ax720 decoder box as I will be giving my ax720 setup to my nephew soon and I really like the functionality of it. If i get it I will let everyone know how it works or doesn't. Also I may be getting the Q701 and M-stage but, now I am concerned if it would be to many cooks in the kitchen sort of speak:
   
  DSS2 headphone out -> M-stage -> steelseries -> Q701 ?
  DSS2 USB                  ------------------> Steelseries-> mod mic
   
  What do you guys think?


----------



## SniperCzar

Just FYI, there are ways to get DH in Media Player Classic without needing a HT receiver. There's also an HRTF option in ffdshow but I've never heard anyone actually talk about whether it's useful or not.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Just FYI, there are ways to get DH in Media Player Classic without needing a HT receiver. *There's also an HRTF option in ffdshow but I've never heard anyone actually talk about whether it's useful or not*.


 

 I use one of them (I forget which right now, one sucks and one is pretty good) and it works pretty well for throwing the soundstage out in front of you for movies.


----------



## DCB305

It's for console, I do not game on PC.


----------



## theguythatthe

I just wanted to put a warning out there to anyone thinking of purchasing the new Tritton AX720 7.1 2012 headset.  It's so much worse than the old model, I returned it immediately.
   
  Compared to the older model, the 7.1 has a significant amount more hum.  Hum is loud enough that it can be heard during quieter parts of games.
   
  I bought it for the amp which offers nothing over the older model.  I thought the volume knob was analog, but just a circular shaped digital volume button.  As with everything Madcatz puts there hands on, the build quality of everything feels cheaper than the older model IMHO.
   
  The headset is SIGNIFICANTLY more veiled than the old headset.  Detail retrieval in shooters is non-existent.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I just wanted to put a warning out there to anyone thinking of purchasing the new Tritton AX720 7.1 2012 headset.  It's so much worse than the old model, I returned it immediately.
> 
> Compared to the older model, the 7.1 has a significant amount more hum.  Hum is loud enough that it can be heard during quieter parts of games.
> 
> ...


 

 Same experience I had. Just not worth the money at all.


----------



## GotchaOpen

Would the steelseries cross platform mixer work with the dss1? I'm assuming it would let you control voice volume? Would it let you hear yourself in the headphones also?


----------



## DCB305

anyone have any input on the following?
   
  In regards to the steelseries cross platform audio mixer (http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audiomixer) to connect to the DSS2 (http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-processors/ear-force-dss2.aspx) I already have.
  Quote: 





> I might give it a shot to hook it up to the TB DSS2, it would allow me to use the mic on the PC360 and I would like the convenience of controlling the the audio volume and voice volume independently on a puck (ala ax720) and it would also allow me to sit the DSS next to the PS3. Hopefully it wouldn't create any noise and keep the audio SQ of the DSS2. Just looking for an alternative for the ax720 decoder box as I will be giving my ax720 setup to my nephew soon and I really like the functionality of it. If i get it I will let everyone know how it works or doesn't. Also I may be getting the Q701 and M-stage but, now I am concerned if it would be to many cooks in the kitchen sort of speak:
> 
> DSS2 headphone out -> M-stage -> steelseries -> Q701 ?
> DSS2 USB                  ------------------> Steelseries-> mod mic


 
  Would like to get the functionality of the ax720 set up with the TB DSS2. Also I am planning on getting the Q701 and m-stage in the near future and would like to know if this would all play nicely together. Thanks


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





> Would the steelseries cross platform mixer work with the dss1? I'm assuming it would let you control voice volume? Would it let you hear yourself in the headphones also?


 
  IDK yet, I may be ordering it next week to test. I hate to assume but I assume it will work and I wouldn't be able to tell you if you can hear yourself until next week when I receive the
 Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB Stereo Audio Adapter (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MSS6CS/ref=ox_ya_os_product) so I can connect the pc360 mic to the DSS2.


----------



## calpis

The steelseries is what it says it is, a mixer. It will take any stereo audio and mix it with chat audio. The dss1/2 output in stereo so it will work. The thing is, it's also an amp which is why it needs the USB power and can only work when it is powered. That is where the downfall was with their xbox only mixer, it had a crappy amp that introduced hiss/hum/static into the chain that any good headphone will pick up on. I have my doubts on the universal model and that steelseries probably only "tuned" that thing for their own headsets. I may be wrong but I don't feel like being a guinea pig again.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I just wanted to put a warning out there to anyone thinking of purchasing the new Tritton AX720 7.1 2012 headset.  It's so much worse than the old model, I returned it immediately.
> 
> Compared to the older model, the 7.1 has a significant amount more hum.  Hum is loud enough that it can be heard during quieter parts of games.


 
   
  Thar's a shame 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote:


dcb305 said:


> DSS2 headphone out -> M-stage -> steelseries -> Q701 ?
> DSS2 USB                  ------------------> Steelseries-> mod mic
> 
> What do you guys think?


 

 The first setup would be _triple_ amping, and probably wouldn't sound great.  Having the M-stage in the middle would probably be pointless as the signal would end up just going to the steelseries which is the weakest link in the amplification chain.  The M-stage should be the last thing in a chain and the amp your headphones plug into - but it would still be triple amping at that point with it's source being the steelseries mixer  :\ 
   
  I guess it could work, although it would be messy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To the guy wanting to get the DSS2, if you want chat, just get the wired Mixamp. Its just a little more than getting the DSS2+whatever mic amp, and will be significantly quieter, and easier to deal with.

The DSS2 should only be for those of us that don't need chat functions.

Going from the MStage to the Mixer is just...no. Just, no.


----------



## Gambit61

Wow, my first post in this topic was gonna be about my experience with it today. I bought them on the way home since I've seen it recommended for people on a budget, but the sound quality is pretty bad. It also looks like it did not come with the adapter to use any other headphones you have laying around. Might just be me but i think my KSC72/portapros sound much clearer lol. I'm definitely gonna return them. I would get the AD700 since they're right around the price point I'm looking for but I hear they lack bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. 
  
  Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I just wanted to put a warning out there to anyone thinking of purchasing the new Tritton AX720 7.1 2012 headset.  It's so much worse than the old model, I returned it immediately.
> 
> Compared to the older model, the 7.1 has a significant amount more hum.  Hum is loud enough that it can be heard during quieter parts of games.
> 
> ...


----------



## calpis

If it's anything like the old model then then the volume puck on the headphone cord comes apart to reveal a 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Once again...



If the new AX720 has an inline puck, it should break away like this.

No reason to return the AX720 if so, as it's the same price as the wired Mixamp and does the same thing and comes with the headset (think of it as FREE).


----------



## dreadful

Quote:


sniperczar said:


> Hey MLE, think this optical switcher would actually work? It looks like it's pretty straightforward (all mechanical) so I doubt it'd interfere with the quality all that much. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946


 
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Its cheap and broke on me in a few days of turning the knob





>


 
  I've had this switcher for about two years and it's done a good job.  However I do tend to end up playing consoles in phases so I only end up using the switcher a couple times a week if that. If your only using two devices it's ok nothing special if your using three I wouldn't buy it because the middle port seems to act strange compare to the other two.  
   
  Edit 
   
  On a side note has anyone tried the pc320 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PC-320-Headphone-Black/dp/B006RF9HX8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330432178&sr=8-3


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dreadful said:


> On a side note has anyone tried the pc320 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PC-320-Headphone-Black/dp/B006RF9HX8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1330432178&sr=8-3


 

  
  "Intuitive design - the volume control disintegrated in the right ear cup for quick access"...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X320 is a lower end model to the PC360. A youtube video had a comparison, and was said the PC360 was clearly superior, but the X320 wasn't bad for the price, and is more comfy. I can believe that, as Sennheisers were never particularly comfy for me.


----------



## DCB305

Thanks MLE and Chicolom, I thought it would be much as well, so steel series deleted. In regards to using chat with the DSS2 though, from what I understand it can be done using the syba stereo audio adapter (http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330440575&sr=8-1). I have it on order and will confirm once I get it. Thanks again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like that will probably work ok for the PS3. Won't work on the 360 though.

So I rented SSX on the 360. I would've bought it but finances have to be allocated a little more on games I REALLY want, and since Mass Effect 3 is about to come out, SSX can wait a few months, after I'm done with the games coming out soon...

ME3
Tales of Graces F

and probably picking up

Atelier Totori
Hyperdimension Neptunia Mk. II

Both games I didn't play the earlier installments of, though I read the earlier ones weren't really worth it.

I just need some JRPGs... I'm seriously deprived, and FFXIII-2 was a letdown (beat it).


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Looks like that will probably work ok for the PS3. Won't work on the 360 though.
> So I rented SSX on the 360. I would've bought it but finances have to be allocated a little more on games I REALLY want, and since Mass Effect 3 is about to come out, SSX can wait a few months, after I'm done with the games coming out soon...
> ME3
> Tales of Graces F
> ...


 
   
  Got my pre-order for Mass Effect 3 so the wait begins. Now to decide if I want the collectors edition or not. 
  Been playing a lot of Dead Island with my brothers to tide me over til Borderlands 2. It's to bad that glitched weapons have destroyed the online scene.
  Been watching a ton of Witcher2 content for the 360 release since I don't have the want or drive to upgrade my PC to a playable level.
  
  I really want SSX but I am another one that will most likely be stuck waiting for a price drop. Tales games have never hooked me. Sucks Last Story and Xenoblade are Wii exclusive. /sigh


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tales of Vesperia is awesome! I just wish they'd localize the PS3 version since its the complete version.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Namco apparently hates non-Japanese Tales fans. I'm already hearing that Tales of the Abyss 3DS is selling out a mere week or two after its US release, and eBay scalpers are already showing up.
   
  Speaking of which, I still haven't played that copy of Tales of Symphonia I bought a while back...maybe now would be a good time.
   
  Also, while I generally don't consider pre-ordering games these days because they usually get much cheaper later on, there are rumors going around that Xenoblade's US release will only have enough copies printed to meet pre-order demand. I can only hope that's not really the case, but given that low print runs for highly sought-after JRPGs are hardly a new thing...
   
   Quote: 





hailin said:


> Sucks Last Story and Xenoblade are Wii exclusive. /sigh






 I know the feeling. For instance, I'd like to try Tales of Vesperia, but don't feel like buying an X360 to play it. (Or a PS3, but they haven't localized that version.)


----------



## ninjikiran

I am buying Hyperdimension MK2 after work today.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lemme know how you like it. I couldn't get far into the first one because the gameplay and map design was terrible.

BTW guys, SSX seems to be quite a bit heavy on the bass with its soundtrack. I couldn't listen to it with the D7000. Even the Q701 sounded like basshead cans but its good with those. DH sounds pretty sweet when you start a run and the heli spins around.


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lemme know how you like it. I couldn't get far into the first one because the gameplay and map design was terrible.
> BTW guys, SSX seems to be quite a bit heavy on the bass with its soundtrack. I couldn't listen to it with the D7000. Even the Q701 sounded like basshead cans but its good with those. DH sounds pretty sweet when you start a run and the heli spins around.


 


  Can't wait to get my hands on SSX
 Spent countless hours on the PS2 playing it


----------



## Pilule

Hello everyone!
   
  Read bits and there of this pretty nice thread, learned about the Mixamp, attachable mic (like the Antlon Modmic) and probably made up my idea about a real soundcard if I have still have the place on the motherboard.
   
  Here goes : I pretty much only game on the PC, as of now i'm more on League of Legends but I pretty much play different kind of genre from FPS ( mostly casually ) RTS, RPG, MMO.
   
  I've had those Logitech G35 Headset for 2 years and they just broke up (cheap plastic part exploded from the Right socket). So here i am checking out for a new Headphone/Headset package.
  Music I'm currently listening : Daft Punk, Metal, Cee Lo Green, Red Hot, I guess popular music?
   
  Most of the time I'll be Playing a game while talking on Vent/Steam Chat system and also playing some music in the Background.
  I'd also need something that wouldn't let that much noise in since there's always 5-6 kids jumping and running on the floor right above me so something noice cancelling would be nice or nice isolation.
  Oh and I currently own V-Moda V-80 for portable means for my phone, could I use that as a not so bad beginning?
  My budget range would be 100-500$ CAN
   
   
  Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## Mastakilla

Thanks again for all replies... Below some answers and questions
  
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> It's real surround sound as far as I can tell, I've never used it for gaming, but it's great for Blu-ray movies.
> I put the Blu-ray disk into my Panasonic Blu-ray player and plug my DT990 Pro 250-Ohm into the Yamaha and it's like I'm at the movie theater.
> 9 out of 10 reviews on Silent Cinema are positive
> As far as I can tell, the Yamaha receivers support all the audio formats just as well as any other receiver brand.
> ...


 
  Can anyone else confirm that it is "real" virtual surround or "made up" virtual surround? This is pretty important for gaming... 
   
  Also when talking about those audio formats, I meant to ask if Silent Cinema only works with some specific kind of surround inputs
  for example:
  It may be only possible to enable Silent Cinema when the sound input is DTS and not when it is a bit streamed 5.1 input or whatever other surround input is possible.
  Or perhaps it is even more tricky and it is possible to always enable Silent Cinema, but it only does something with specific sorts of sound input.
  
  You definitely put Yamaha back on my radar though. I need to buy a new AV amp anyway for my speakers and I was more thinking about Onkyo or Pioneer, but both seem to completely lack any real Headphone Surround.
   
  Quote: 





l00l said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but all surround sound you hear through your headhones is "made up". This means that you have to have some device that mixes the sound and sends it to your headphones in an order that they appear to be surround sound, when acutally you only have 2 speakers of course (left and right).
> There are only a hand full of "real" surround sound headsets (meaning multiple speakers on each side) and from what I´ve heard they just simply suck. So not an option.
> 
> What I don´t get is this: People (including me) all want a good surround sound experience. Understandably so. But even now, when I just plug my headphones into the headphone jack (or RCA) of my TV I already get "surround sound". I mean technically I think it´s stereo of course, but if I play MW3 I still can tell if somebody is behind me or in front of me or if he is comming left or right around the corner, or if that fire is behind/in front, left or right of me. Same with movies: I can hear the a starship in Star Wars passing by just as I would in real life. So there must be some sort of processing already beeing done by my TV, Blu Ray Player, Xbox or whatever. Maybe somebody can explain that mystery to me


 
  In my eyes (or ears) there is a big difference between a headphone surround that uses a stereo sound as input (This is what I call "made-up". For example: CMSS-3D Surround and probably many others where it is not so clearly specified- - I suppose also Pioneers "Headphone Surround" falls in this category?) and a headphone surround that uses a surround sound as input  (This is what I call "real". For example: Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D and perhaps also Silent Cinema)
   
  And perhaps your TV supports one of these surround techniques?
    
  Quote:


weez82 said:


> @ Mastakilla
> 
> I had the HD598's and to be honest, they dont sound at all good listening to hip hop. The bass they produce lacks "punch" and imo takes the life out of the music. They worked great for gaming but that was about it. Now I have the 770 Pro 80's and am so glad I tried them. Movies and Music have life now because the bass they produce and that "punch" that is needed. Again, just my opinion. But if you want hip hop bass and movie bass to sound good, skip the senns


 
   Quote:


sniperczar said:


> I second the 770s. Epic entry level headphone for a good price. If you have the cash for an amp and don't care about being able to travel, get the 990s which sound better.


 
  That is indeed what I heard from some people about the HD598 and why I have my doubts about this headphone.
   
  However I am more afraid of the DT770 Pro 80 for it's "too strong" bass. As Mad Lust Envy said about them "Too bad it's too wild in bass for hardcore FPS gaming. The finer details are prety much sucked out because of the bass.". This scares me even more then a lack of bass, also for music....
  Also for the DT990, I actually fear the too strong treble more then the weak bass of the HD598. A too strong treble may become uncomfortable after awhile.
  With this I don't mean that those fears are justified. Perhaps I do like the 770 and 990 better than the HD598. I just mean that IF not, it seems less painfull to have too little bass, than having too much bass / treble.
   
  But the really important question here is my question nr 2, which wasn't answered so far:
*is it possible to "fix" the too weak bass from the HD598 with an equalizer (software or hardware)?*
  or does this have downsides / side effects?
  
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The reason I haven't really mentioned Silent Cinema much is simply lack of experience with it. I don't have an A/V receiver that has it, nor do I have any plans to get one.
> 
> For PC use, though, I find it much more economical to just get a sound card.


 
  I understand. It is just because I need to buy a AV amp for my speaker setup anyway, that I prefer finding an all-in-one solution.
   
  However I am not even close to figuring out if that is the best (for sound quality - in gaming, movies and music - and being practical - I prefer not going through tons of setting windows when switching between speakers and headphone).
  For example, I was thinking that if I let me AV amp do the headphone surround stuff, then I may not have to change any settings on my computer when switching between speakers and headphone (in both cases it will be set to 5.1 sound)


----------



## Gambit61

So I tried the ax720 again with my portapros and a few games. Besides the constant hiss in the background it sounds pretty good in the ME3  multiplayer demo. Shockwaves and some other biotic powers sound really cool going off all around you lol. I also tried it in the Alan Wake American Nightmare demo and was able to catch a few Taken trying to quietly attack from behind which was awesome. Now I'm just waiting for Binary Domain to come in the mail to see if I'll keep this.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> Can anyone else confirm that it is "real" virtual surround or "made up" virtual surround? This is pretty important for gaming...
> Also when talking about those audio formats, I meant to ask if Silent Cinema only works with some specific kind of surround inputs
> for example:
> It may be only possible to enable Silent Cinema when the sound input is DTS and not when it is a bit streamed 5.1 input or whatever other surround input is possible.
> ...


 
  Ok, I just played Avatar Blu-ray (scene 30) with my Yamaha RX-V671 (Silent Cinema) and then on my PC (Essence STX, Dolby, PowerDVD 11 Ultra), using Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones, could not really tell any differance in audio quality.
  The Essence STX (Dolby) might have a very slight edge, I have to think it has more has to do with the sound card having better support for headphones over a stereo receiver.
  And I'm still learning how to get the best "setting" for my Yamaha.
  I do run bit-stream from my Panasonic Blu-ray player to the Yamaha, so the Yamaha is doing all audio processing.
  I have not found any reviews or other info that say that Silent Cinema is not true surround sound.
  I do know other receiver manufacturers use fake surround sound, it's more like they use expanded stereo, like Dolby Pro Logic, upmixing 2.0 signals to 5.0
  I really doubt you could "fix" any weak bass of the HD598 (I believe others have tried), maybe the Beyer DT880 would work better for you?
  My Senn HD558s have decent bass, not as full as the DT990s, but I never think "If only my HD558s had more bass"
  I like the idea of using the receiver for both speakers and headphones, you can run an digital optical cable from the motherboard to the receiver.
  I know digital optical can carry Dolby Digital 5.1, but I'm not sure about Dolby TrueHD.


----------



## Eric_C

MLE: Eh, less talk on SSX's soundtrack and more impressions of the gameplay, plz.


----------



## SniperCzar

I think TrueHD is only over HDMI. Also, to the guy thinking about getting an Onkyo, I just got a 508 and will probably be putting up my impressions in a few days (comes in tomorrow). And if you're already looking at the Beyer 770s, know that the bass is much more manageable if you have a source with low output impedance. I'm loving just how much more refined they sound after hooking them to my new E17.


----------



## Ricanlegend

hey Mad lust envy am thinking about buying the AKG K 701 and i read you will need another amp to power the voice chat and in game sound will the Fiio e11 do the job ? 
[size=1.7em]  [/size] [size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ricanlegend said:


> hey Mad lust envy am thinking about buying the AKG K 701 and i read you will need another amp to power the voice chat and in game sound will the Fiio e11 do the job ?
> [size=1.7em]  [/size] [size=1.7em]  [/size]


 


  You might want to try them yourself first.  For me the mixamp has enough volume even when mixing in voice chat....


----------



## Azathoth

Great impressions on the headphones for gaming, I use and enjoy the CAL! myself for FPS gaming. Even on old-school stuff like Diablo 2, the soundtrack just sounds so rich on them. Now I'm seriously tempted by the Senn PC360, if only they weren't so expensive in my country...$300ish, ouch.
   
  Thanks for the link the Nameless Guide by the way, it's proving to an excellent resource.


----------



## Drastion

I figured I would let everyone know the bad news. After waiting a month for the 5.8 to come in stock I got fed up and put in a support ticket. So even though they still have it on there site. They will NOT be selling the mixamps on their own anymore. If you want one now you have to buy it withe the headset for "the full gaming experiance".

I am more than a little pissed right now. I already spent plenty on headphones and dont need another one lying around. Either I am going to have to bite the bullet or figure out what to do with $200 in astro store credit.


----------



## DCB305

Wow, that sucks. I would fight for a complete refund or the product you ordered and not settle for the in-store credit. They need to be responsible and accountable, it is not your fault that they have decided to only sell the equipment bundled and neglected to reflect that decision on their products page and they need to honor the order or refund the money. Store credit is unacceptable (I hate that crap, I shouldn't be confined to spending those dollars only at your store, it should be illegal), report them to BBB, but I don't think it would help but maybe give you the feeling that they didn't get away with it.


----------



## Drastion

Well its not quite like that. I bougjt some coupons back before christ?ass. I didnt realize they shut down for a few weeks during the holidays. By the time they came up ces was almost on so I wanted to see if they had anything new coming out. I used one to get a gift card to mmake sure it will work. So I dont think I can get a refund since I used it already. That and my second cupon does not work right even though astro said it should.

If I knew someone who wanted the headset I would get it and sell it off just think I would never get around to doing it.


----------



## DCB305

I think I have seen the headset sell on ebay for like $100.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mastakilla said:


> And perhaps your TV supports one of these surround techniques?


 

 I doubt that. My believe is that there is some surround processing going on on the Xbox/Blu Ray player.
   
  I am also considering the Yamaha receiver now, but I can´t find too much on Silent Cinema. Not many people seem to use it. I just figured I will give the Yamaha a shot, try Silent Cinema and if I like it I keep the receiver and buy a speaker set in the next 6 months or so.
  In the beginnung I just wanted a good pair of headphones (and nothing else!) but sometimes this is where it goes...


----------



## Phos

drastion said:


> Well its not quite like that. I bougjt some coupons back before christ?ass. I didnt realize they shut down for a few weeks during the holidays. By the time they came up ces was almost on so I wanted to see if they had anything new coming out. I used one to get a gift card to mmake sure it will work. So I dont think I can get a refund since I used it already. That and my second cupon does not work right even though astro said it should.
> If I knew someone who wanted the headset I would get it and sell it off just think I would never get around to doing it.



Can you buy stuff and then return it for cash? Seems like an option to consider.


----------



## Ricanlegend

You can still buy the 5.8 mixamp only in there U.K store the shipping will be high


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





drastion said:


> They will NOT be selling the mixamps on their own anymore. If you want one now you have to buy it withe the headset for "the full gaming experiance".


 


  WOW.  That's bad.  I just talked with a support rep and he said he was also confused why it was now being bundled only.  He was bummed out b/c he wanted them separate as well.
   
  It's a bad decision, whoever made it.  They killed something great they had going for them.  I don't know if they're trying to clear out headset stock or what. 
   
  The wired mixamp is still sold separately.  But F that...it still pisses me off


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow... horrible.

I always sad, Astro sucks, Mixamp aside. Now, I'll be recommending the AX720 or DSS2. At least with the AX720, you can consider the headset free.


----------



## Phos

How about the Recon3D?  It's reviewed well in a lot of places, and you can eq on PC and then use those settings on console.  It also sounds like it doesn't have that hiss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I trust my friends at AVS and the ones who have tried it say it doesn't compare to Dolby Headphone.

I'd be willing to try it, but I don't exactly have a need for it.

I'm considering getting the new white M50s as my beater can/Vita use.

The PS Vita has a pretty weak internal amp, that isn't exactly bringing out a lot even in the D7000. I honestly have to attach the E9 to get some oomph out of them.

Considering the Vita is stereo only, the M50s would suit it well, and unlike my other two mains, the M50 gets almost no benefit when amped. 

The KSC35 sounds fine out of the Vita, but the clips hurt like hell after an hour or so.

The M50 is damn comfy once stretched out. I do miss mine.


----------



## Drastion

Looks like I may just have to get a mixamp pro. Not sure if I would get money back if I used a code. Sure dont want to give them more money for a headset just for wireless. Just really pissed me off that they still have the mixamp 5.8 on there site but intend to never sell it alone.

Is there much point in getting a battery pack for the pro since it has to be wired to someting anyways?

If not will just have to buy some random stuff to get my money worth. Since I have no choice but to buy there stuff now. Maybe I will get a recon once they release there wireless puck for any headphone.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





drastion said:


> Looks like I may just have to get a mixamp pro. Not sure if I would get money back if I used a code. Sure dont want to give them more money for a headset just for wireless. Just really pissed me off that they still have the mixamp 5.8 on there site but intend to never sell it alone.
> Is there much point in getting a battery pack for the pro since it has to be wired to someting anyways?
> If not will just have to buy some random stuff to get my money worth. Since I have no choice but to buy there stuff now. Maybe I will get a recon once they release there wireless puck for any headphone.


 


  Is the battery pack any different from just using 4 AA batteries? Because not having to power the Pro with USB could be useful--1 less wire, and in my part of the world USB cables tend to run shorter than optical cables, so connecting my MixAmp to the Xbox was a hassle.


----------



## Ricanlegend

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Is the battery pack any different from just using 4 AA batteries? Because not having to power the Pro with USB could be useful--1 less wire, and in my part of the world USB cables tend to run shorter than optical cables, so connecting my MixAmp to the Xbox was a hassle.


 

 Makes no diffrence , the only real reason to get a battery pack is if going to a mlg event sometimes theres isnt enough usb slots left for everyone to plug in .


----------



## Eric_C

^ Yeah I see your point, but my question is: 
  What's the advantage of using Astro's battery pack vs regular batteries?


----------



## Phos

Astro's pack recharges over USB.  Pretty slowly I'd imagine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, you can't charge batteries. It has to be the Astro pack for both the Pro and 5.8.

The Mixamp Pro will have a ton of wires attached, so I find the battery pack useless. I did get one for my wired Mixamp... useless. 

If you plan on sitting far from the setup and need the Mixamp near you, I suggest going on Monoprice and getting a long USB cable, 1 long optical cable (non fancy), a short optical cable, a long digital coaxial cable, and the coaxial to optical adapter to hook the latter two with. The adapter will allow you to hok up two consoles with optical outs, since the Mixamp has one optical, and one digital coaxial input (both same SQ). If you plan on gaming with the Wii or standard stereo equipment, may as well pick up a long RCA cable too.

With all that, the Mixamp will be a tentacle monster, I suggest something that holds all those cables together.


----------



## Drastion

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, you can't charge batteries. It has to be the Astro pack for both the Pro and 5.8.
> The Mixamp Pro will have a ton of wires attached, so I find the battery pack useless. I did get one for my wired Mixamp... useless.
> If you plan on sitting far from the setup and need the Mixamp near you, I suggest going on Monoprice and getting a long USB cable, 1 long optical cable (non fancy), a short optical cable, a long digital coaxial cable, and the coaxial to optical adapter to hook the latter two with. The adapter will allow you to hok up two consoles with optical outs, since the Mixamp has one optical, and one digital coaxial input (both same SQ). If you plan on gaming with the Wii or standard stereo equipment, may as well pick up a long RCA cable too.
> With all that, the Mixamp will be a tentacle monster, I suggest something that holds all those cables together.




Yeah, that mess is just why I wanted the 5.8. Guess I can just hook it into an amp control the volume with that and leave the wires at my tv. Wishing I didnt return the dss.

Now if monster and dolby can finish going to court together so they can release their own mixamp. But not many like monster either. The asking price was good considering it had lithium battery in it.

www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29752_Monster-Ultimate-Gaming-Surround-Sound-Amplifier.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think that will ever come out. A damn shame.


----------



## HyperionXL

Is the concensus still pretty much that the K70x and Senns are at the top of the pack? Just snapped the earcup off the side of my Nixon RPMs (only 2 months after doing the same thing to my Shure SHR-840s) and decided its time for a gaming headset. I listen to some music and watch movies (I'm no audiophile so perfect sound isn't required, but just tolarable is good enough for me), but gaming will be its main use (on the PC hooked up to an Asus STX)...

 I live in Thailand, and there are no physical shops where I can sit down and listen to high end gaming headsets, so I have to go off the opinions here. Budget doesn't matter. I want the best I can get that will do gaming, not break so damn easy, and allow me to listen to music and movies tolerably.
   
  Thanks guys! This thread is super helpful!!


----------



## Eric_C

^ I think MLE and Chicolom recommend the Q701, not the K70x, for most people. The only exception both seem to make is if you play competitively; but for everyone else considering the AKG 70x headphones, the Q seems to be their pick.
  Beyer 990 (Pro, _not_ Premium) gets a fair number of recommendations too. 
   
  Also: what did you do to your previous headphones??


----------



## HyperionXL

I'm not sure how they broke. I though the nixons were built like a rock. They're heavy as hell. I grabbed the ear cup, probably stretched it out 1 - 2 centimeters and *SNAP* looks like there is a weak spot right where something is molded and connected from the plastic headband to the metal cup swingers or whatever you wanna call them. Damn shame cuz they are great for some kinds of music. Just kinda realizing i liked the shures more for gaming. My choice in Thailand is too limited. Was hunting for the price of q701s and found some... they want $700 for them... the k701s 300 - 400. Asia is weird.
   
  I'll keep hunting. Maybe just take some audio technicas since I've seen them about here.


----------



## ninjikiran

the wired mixamp is the better option anyway unless you NEED wireless but even so you still gotta clip it to your boxers or panties xD. 

 The astro head set based on my experience is not even worth $50, my old school $20 logitech rivals it in SQ. 
   
  On another note, hyperdimension neptunia mk2 is no where near as slow in gameplay as MK1, even the static scenes have more LIFE to them.  While combat may not be anything more than 1 dimensional, it gives you the feeling that its more free.  Its like going from a lifeless doll that speaks to a real human.


----------



## Rickstahful

For some reason when I turn on Dolby Headphone, I get the opposite of what I expect and the positioning actually seems to be worse, playing mostly Battlefield 3. I've eventually started playing with it off, and I find that everything feels more pinpoint without it, and has the obvious benefit of more music-like clarity.
   
  I'm using a pair of AD700s hooked up to a Xonar DX, let me know if any of you managed to have the same experience with DH.


----------



## CaveManta

Quote: 





rickstahful said:


> For some reason when I turn on Dolby Headphone, I get the opposite of what I expect and the positioning actually seems to be worse, playing mostly Battlefield 3. I've eventually started playing with it off, and I find that everything feels more pinpoint without it, and has the obvious benefit of more music-like clarity.
> 
> I'm using a pair of AD700s hooked up to a Xonar DX, let me know if any of you managed to have the same experience with DH.


 
    Hmm..That's interesting, but it makes sense. I just played some played some Battlefield 3 to see if the same effect would happen to me.
 I use an AD700 as well, with a surround emulator that is very similar to Dolby Headphone called Sony Headphone Theater.
    So I start a mission, get in some fights, and get a feel for the sound without Headphone Theater. It sounds great and crisp, there is pinpoint clarity and a good sense of perspective "air."
    During one of the fights, I finally activate Headphone Theater. And my gosh, does it sound like a mess. Not only are the usual changes made by surround emulation there, but almost all of the pin-point accuracy is replaced by some serious environmental reverb.
    I believe that the problem is the fact that Battlefield already uses a special kind of surround emulator (advanced stereo mixing.) Adding Dolby Headphone or anything similar just overdoes the effect. So you really don't need Dolby Headphone in Battlefield 3, in my opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because BF3 is a terrible demo for Dolby Headphone. Sounds are all over the place, and placement was never good.

Also, in the game, you have to make sure you have the sound set to HOME THEATER or whatever, not Headphone. If you're using anything other than the theater option (or whaveter it's called, I forget), you are sending the Mixamp the wrong kind of signal.


In other news, just ordered Shinobido 2 for the Vita. At first I was iffy, until I read that it's basically a re-skin of Tenchu... that was all I needed to hear. I LOOOOOOOOVE Tenchu....except Tenchu Z for the 360, the Wii one, and the DS one...

Tenchu baby, TENCHU.


----------



## ninjikiran

Make sure to turn off enhanced stereo mode as well,  BF3 set to HT/No Enhanced stereo sounds great through dolby headphone. Better than CMSS3d for stronger oomph impact but positioning isn't hugely altered between them in this game.  Its way better than BF3's built in headphone mode.


----------



## Drastion

I cant get the manual on astos website to open. The mixamp pro does not come with a y splitter for headphone and mic right?

Also trying to spend the last of my store credit. Are the a star earbuds worth it? I already have a pair of koss kcs75 for compact portable use.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ^ I think MLE and Chicolom recommend the Q701, not the K70x, for most people. The only exception both seem to make is if you play competitively; but for everyone else considering the AKG 70x headphones, the Q seems to be their pick.


 

 Correct 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






  Quote: 





hyperionxl said:


> Was hunting for the price of q701s and found some... they want $700 for them... the k701s 300 - 400. Asia is weird.


 

  There are some Q's on the FS forum at a nice price  > http://www.head-fi.org/t/598549/akg-q701-mint-condition


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





drastion said:


> Now if monster and dolby can finish going to court together so they can release their own mixamp. But not many like monster either. The asking price was good considering it had lithium battery in it.
> 
> www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29752_Monster-Ultimate-Gaming-Surround-Sound-Amplifier.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle


 

 Never saw this before ^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was supposed to come with the Tron inspired Monster T1s (lol, Beyer), I believe.


----------



## calpis

Someone here should bit the bullet and pick one of those up.


----------



## Rickstahful

I seem to be a bit of a special case, but I just can't find myself to prefer Dolby Headphone on as opposed to off. I've toyed around with different sound settings rather tediously for the past week or so and have never been able to find any DH setting that felt anywhere near as lifelike or natural as simply leaving it off (including the settings recommended after my previous post). This was obviously against my initial expectations, but it simply works amazing without DH on. Confused, but definitely not a real negative. On the plus side, I also don't need to deal with any loss in SQ and music still sounds great


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





rickstahful said:


> I seem to be a bit of a special case, but I just can't find myself to prefer Dolby Headphone on as opposed to off. I've toyed around with different sound settings rather tediously for the past week or so and have never been able to find any DH setting that felt anywhere near as lifelike or natural as simply leaving it off (including the settings recommended after my previous post). This was obviously against my initial expectations, but it simply works amazing without DH on. Confused, but definitely not a real negative. On the plus side, I also don't need to deal with any loss in SQ and music still sounds great


 


  What other games have you tried DH with, aside from BF3? Skyrim is a pretty nice environment to use DH in.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Someone here should bit the bullet and pick one of those up.


 


  People are talking about it like it's not out but it's right there in that shop...  Is it out?  
   
  Also, MLE, I know the Recon3D can adjust the strength of the surround effect, did those AVS guys experiment with that?


----------



## Drastion

The t1 was ment to tie in with the tron movie. But there is some kind of patent problem. Monster is taking dolby to court so they can release I as their own product.

http://www.law360.com/articles/284498


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rickstahful said:


> I seem to be a bit of a special case, but I just can't find myself to prefer Dolby Headphone on as opposed to off. I've toyed around with different sound settings rather tediously for the past week or so and have never been able to find any DH setting that felt anywhere near as lifelike or natural as simply leaving it off (including the settings recommended after my previous post). This was obviously against my initial expectations, but it simply works amazing without DH on. Confused, but definitely not a real negative. On the plus side, I also don't need to deal with any loss in SQ and music still sounds great




Seriously, BF3 is not a good game to test DH. Go to the downloads section and get some demos. Some games really utilize DH real well, while others don't do a thing for it. 

Honestly, there is no game that I prefer stereo in, aside from those that don't do Dolby, like certain downloadables. Stereo just sounds one dimensional to me outside of music, and definitely a lot more artificial than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





phos said:


> People are talking about it like it's not out but it's right there in that shop...  Is it out?
> 
> Also, MLE, I know the Recon3D can adjust the strength of the surround effect, did those AVS guys experiment with that?


 

 Actually at the bottom of the item description says that there are manufacturing delays, so they actually don't have any to sell and they're just selling preorders.
   
   
  Quote: 





drastion said:


> The t1 was ment to tie in with the tron movie. But there is some kind of patent problem. Monster is taking dolby to court so they can release I as their own product.
> http://www.law360.com/articles/284498


 

 Hah, I've always thought the logo on Monster's headphones/earphones looked like the Dolby Headphone logo. I guess Dolby was fine with it until Monster decided to sell something that would of had had the DH trademark alongside the Monster logo. Doesn't surprise me though, I mean it's Monster we're talking about, they sued a mini golf. In any case, Dolby used the logo first.


----------



## pdiddypdler

Sorry if it's already been talked about, but how is the antlion modmic? Anyone used it?
I'm keen on it for use at home but also wonder whether it will be good enough at isolating noise for use at loud lan's.

Cheers,

Great thread btw!


----------



## Mikesin

The Antlion modmic is great, however im not sure if its any good at isolating noise from loud LAN's , but when I flip up the mic (0°) from the speaking position (90°), I don't think anyone could hear me speak so it might just work.
  
  Quote: 





pdiddypdler said:


> Sorry if it's already been talked about, but how is the antlion modmic? Anyone used it?
> I'm keen on it for use at home but also wonder whether it will be good enough at isolating noise for use at loud lan's.
> Cheers,
> Great thread btw!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To anyone who is interested in a cheap USB DAC/AMP or portable amp, I'm selling my E7 for $30 total (listing on my sig). Details there. The only thing that my E7 won't do is hook up to the E9/L7. Otherwise, it's fully functional as a DAC/AMP or AMP. Go there if interested, or pm.


----------



## Rickstahful

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, BF3 is not a good game to test DH. Go to the downloads section and get some demos. Some games really utilize DH real well, while others don't do a thing for it.
> Honestly, there is no game that I prefer stereo in, aside from those that don't do Dolby, like certain downloadables. Stereo just sounds one dimensional to me outside of music, and definitely a lot more artificial than Dolby Headphone.


 
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> What other games have you tried DH with, aside from BF3? Skyrim is a pretty nice environment to use DH in.


 
  Sorry, forgot to mention I wasn't playing strictly only BF3. I've tried out the Mass Effect 3 Demo, several games on Steam (Valve games, GTA, Skyrim, COD, demos, and a bunch of indie games in between) and I always find that DH skewers the accuracy, whereas regular stereo essentially sounds like how it was described in the first post. Again, I'm not sure why DH doesn't like me, but stereo just somehow works amazingly for me. Personally, it also helps tremendously to have DH off when using voice, as the settings also affect how they sound.
   
  I'm pretty sure I don't have screwed up ears, but this just seems like a case where something that works for one person doesn't quite fit the bill for another.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's cool. DH isn't for everyone.

In case anyone even noticed that I put the E7 up for sale, it's already been sold (didn't even take an hour).

edit: Just beat Uncharted: Golden Abyss. Great game. I would say it doesn't quite match the PS3 Uncharted games, but it comes close to the first one.

Uncharted 2: 9.5
Uncharted 3: 9
Uncharted: 8
Uncharted Golden Abyss (Vita): 8

Just waiting on Shinobido 2. May as well continue Monster Blobs Attacks.


----------



## HyperionXL

Found an open box q701 for about $360 (thanks Thai luxury taxes) on a Thai tech forum so I'll be ordering that. Went and demoed a pair of k701s and the HD598s. The 598s sounded great unamped in my iphone, but the 701s were just so much more comfy - but damn they're hard to drive. Hooked them up to a Fiio e7 and had to max the volume (60) to listen to videos and music at a decent level.
   
  Got the e7 anyways just because it was a good deal and it should help with my in ear buds I use while sitting in taxis in the horrid traffic out here, but thinking I should get a desktop amp to pair up with it, too. I don't plan to actually use the cans on the move, just hooked up to my Asus STX on my pc (Is the STX enough to drive the 701s?). Can anyone recommend a decent entry to mid level desktop amp thats pretty common and easy to find around the world? I'm clueless on this stuff.
   
  Thank you!


----------



## Phos

Handy with a Soldering iron?  You might try building an O2 or the upcoming ODA to get around the luxury tax.


----------



## fustrun

Hey guys i just bought an ASUS ESSENSE STX soundcard an i was looking for some advice on a gaming headset, now i've read laz'y guide for headphones and i was just wondering if anything has changed thourgh the months ? i'm currently thinking about the PC360 from senhiser, what's the best one on the market?
 Now please do not suggest EARPHONES with an option to attach a mic! i'm looking for a HEADSET only !
 And last after haveing a headset and the STX sound card is there anything else i need for ultimate sound for games and movies ? such as a earphones amp or anything ?
 Or is this the ultimate setup?
 Thanks in advance !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX is capable of driving practically every headphone suggested.

For headsets, the best two are the Beyerdynamic MMX300 and Sennheiser PC360. Everything else will be lagging behind in terms of sheer sound quality.

If you're looking for something without a mic, your options open up and sound quality gets better.

The best all arounders I recommend:

AKG Q701
Beyerdynamic DT880 or DT990 (if you want more bass and treble)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jesus. The Sony Vita Protection Film... makes me feel like a complete idiot. I broke the first one out of pure rage, and I THOUGHT the second one didn't come off the plastic. I said SCREW IT, only to see that the damn film was ON the Vita. It seriously looked like it stayed on the plastic thing. I only noticed because I thought I ruined my screen, because one corner had a 'bubble'. I was like "What, the film ruined the adhesive that keeps the glass screen to the Vita!". Then I noticed the edges of the 'film, and I was like "OOOOOOOHHH".

Yes, MLE fail. I do have two bubbles but they are tiny... and I'm just gona live with it. Not dealing with another film, ever again. It's too early (late for me) for this ****.

In order news: *DON'T BUY SHINOBIDO 2.* Even as a successor to Tenchu.... it is so mediocre. $40 gone.


----------



## fustrun

So the razer stuff are just a plain gimic right?
 And what is the diffrence between the Beyerdynamic MMX300 and Sennheiser PC360? does the diffrence worth the extra $$ ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MMX300 is a closed design, so it will prevent most of the sound inside the headphone, and keep outside noises out.

The PC360 is open, so while it won't isolate, it will have a considerably larger, more natural soundstage which is beneficial for gaming.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





fustrun said:


> So the razer stuff are just a plain gimic right?
> And what is the diffrence between the Beyerdynamic MMX300 and Sennheiser PC360? does the diffrence worth the extra $$ ?


 


  What razer are you talkin about? Chimera?
   
  Difference between MMX300 and PC360 is the headphones (and the mic as well, don´t know though): With MMX300 you get a Beyerdynamic DT 770 with attached mic, so you pay about 200 for the mic. And it´s the same with the PC360 (basis here is Sennheiser 518 or 558), although the premium is not that much. 
   
  In short: MMX300 is better, but imho it´s not worth the money. Get the DT 770 and a seperate mic. Or go with the PC360.


----------



## shamrock134

I've not heard the PC360, but I tried using the DT770/32ohm for gaming (supposedly an MMX300 without mic) and I found it to be turd. Maybe I had it on backwards.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  I preferred the AD700 and HD598 for gaming accuracy and now I usually game with the D7000.


----------



## HyperionXL

Aren't the mmx300s just dt770s and pc360s just the hd598? Haven't listened to the dt770s yet, but had a listen to the hd598s yesterday and if they are anything like the pc360s, I think you'd be making a good choice with them. Heard great reviews on the mmx300s too, though.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hyperionxl said:


> Aren't the mmx300s just dt770s and pc360s just the hd598? Haven't listened to the dt770s yet, but had a listen to the hd598s yesterday and if they are anything like the pc360s, I think you'd be making a good choice with them. Heard great reviews on the mmx300s too, though.


 


  No, PC360 is not 598, but 518 or 558. But not 598!


----------



## fustrun

Quick question guys, i have a Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO / 250 ohm in a store close to my home and somewhere i read that the DT 990 pro is actually the DT 990 Premium it's just named diffrently in some countries ?
 And will this pair work with an on-board soundcard and an MP3 player ? since i know it's a power hungey headphones.


----------



## our martin

there is a thread on head- fi called "beyerdynamic dt 990 250 pro review" you might want to take a look at! you might kill two birds with one stone with these cans you could use them for your bass guitar..and get a "logitech mic and a fiio e5 headphone amp"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

l00l said:


> No, PC360 is not 598, but 518 or 558. But not 598!




Wrong. The PC360 is actually modeled after the 595. I believe they share the same drivers, but the housing and internal gives it a different sound, FWIR.

It baffles me how people come up with things from out of nowhere. The 558/598 are a different series altogether. Don't even know how the hell the 518 has been added to this.


----------



## fustrun

can you please direct me to this beyerdynamic dt 990 250 pro review thread pls ?
 Since the search brings up so many resaults that there's no way i could find it, would no one kindley answer the question if he knows ?


----------



## our martin

the post said that they have got a good bass and that even a ipod will power them but they sound a lot better with a headphone amp..so a good choice would be a fiio e5 or e6 and logitech desk top mic which will cost about $30!


----------



## fustrun

And yeah i was thinking picking them up for their "fun" use in gaming and for playing bass guitar.
 So what happens when the earphones don't get sufficient power ? they just sound bad or just quiet ?


----------



## our martin

a fiio headphone amp would be a good choice because they are only cheap but portable and you could use it with your mp3 player aswell! and a logitech desk top mic for the battlefield my friend!


----------



## Eric_C

Beyer Pro headphones are NOT renamed Premiums. Afaik Pro vs Premium is about clamping force, and external appearance. 
E.g. 990 Pro grips your head tighter and has plastic, black grills outside; 990 Premium grips looser and has metal grills.


----------



## fustrun

But in terms of sound they are the same right ?
 And as i know the DT 990 has a big jack input and all these amps would have a 3.5 jack . . do i need to use an adapter ? it would be wierd carrying all that in my pocket . .
 What model would you recommend and how do they work ? usb rechargble ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 6.3m jack unscrews and reveals the 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Fa11ou7

First off, Thanks so much MLE and everyone else that has and will contribute to this thread you guys are amazing! 
  [size=10pt]I've been reading through this thread trying to glean as much information as I can. I think I have made my decision on what setup I am going to get but I thought I should post it and see if you guys catch anything I'm missing. [/size]
[size=10pt]I play games mostly on my PC but I also have an xbox that I use from time to time. I need (want) a pair of headphones that I can use with either system that will give me this DH surround that sounds so amazing. My PC doesn't have a sound card just what is on the motherboard (asrock 870 Extreme3) which claims to have "[/size][size=9.0pt]7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec)" [/size][size=10pt] and it does have optical out so I can hook that up to any of the DH systems previously mentioned. I haven't been able to trick it into giving me surround on my headphones but maybe someday I will try and figure that out. [/size]
   
[size=10pt]I am most definitely not an audiophile and I do have some hearing loss which decades ago the audiologist said I should never use headphones...... ya that didn't last long. I did research here a few years ago and got a pair of nuforce IEMs that I find to be a much better sounding option than the ibuds that I was using, as long as you don’t move to much. I also have a pair of Sennheiser HD 435s from work that sound pretty good to me and I hope would work plugged into any of the DH amps that I will buy. [/size]
   
[size=10pt]I hope to spend no more than $150(US) so after reading through this thread and checking prices I would love to get the Astro mixamp 5.8 but just can’t justify the cost since I can’t get it separately from the A40s which most of you have rated poorly. Someone earlier gave a glowing review of the TB PX5 and those have the added bonus of wireless (mostly) and built in mic. I figured for movies or single player I can just plug my 435s into the wired headset port. I also found them used on amazon (90 day return policy) for $130ish which seems like an amazing steal. After that I would probably just try the DSS2 or AX720 for the amp.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]So there are my loooong musings if anyone has some input they would like to give me I would appreciate it, and thanks for wading through my post.[/size]
   
  Ps – Any thoughts about the TB X42s that are going to be released in April?


----------



## rabinzero

I keep seeing the DSS2 being recommended and I am reading nothing but bad things about them.  Reports from reviews on Amazon of people saying it's not even 7.1 and the quality not even close to the original one.  Anyone know of truth to these reports?  As the DSS seems to have gone above $100 and the DSS2 is around $70, but if it's inferior...not even going to consider it.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> I keep seeing the DSS2 being recommended and I am reading nothing but bad things about them.  Reports from reviews on Amazon of people saying it's not even 7.1 and the quality not even close to the original one.  Anyone know of truth to these reports?  As the DSS seems to have gone above $100 and the DSS2 is around $70, but if it's inferior...not even going to consider it.


 

 From what I understand, games don't output 7.1 anyway, they output 5.1 surround sound. In any case we're talking about a device that mixes surround sound into stereo for virtual surround sound; so what's the issue with 5.1 vs 7.1?
  Pls note: I have no experience with the DSS, just pointing out what seems to be fallacious logic.
   


  Quote: 





fustrun said:


> But in terms of sound they are the same right ?
> And as i know the DT 990 has a big jack input and all these amps would have a 3.5 jack . . do i need to use an adapter ? it would be wierd carrying all that in my pocket . .
> What model would you recommend and how do they work ? usb rechargble ?


 

 Read MLE's impressions earlier on 990 Pro vs Premium in his opinion. They use the same drivers but when you have them clamp tighter, there are going to be some differences to the sound. It's like your speakers--if you sit real close they might sound a bit too boomy, but if you sit further back a bit, maybe they sound just right. Nobody can say whether the Pro or Premium is better suited to you, or put a % on how much "better" one is based on its clamping force. You will have to read up more on your own.
   
  What "model" and "USB rechargeable" are you talking about? An amp? Are you thinking of using the 990 while traveling? That would be a bad idea.


----------



## Phos

Dolby only does 5.1 over optical from my understanding, so there's no extra two channels anyway.  I wanna say that only HDMI sends all 7.


----------



## curiousgeorgieo

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wrong. The PC360 is actually modeled after the 595. I believe they share the same drivers, but the housing and internal gives it a different sound, FWIR.
> It baffles me how people come up with things from out of nowhere. The 558/598 are a different series altogether. Don't even know how the hell the 518 has been added to this.


 


  Hi guys,  Not sure if it helps but I picked up the PC360 and I found I had to return them because my HD595s sound much better and in my honest opinion seem to be made with better materials and feel more comfortable than the PC360.  So I use the HD595 with a separate mic. 
   
  Take care,
  George


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wrong. The PC360 is actually modeled after the 595. I believe they share the same drivers, but the housing and internal gives it a different sound, FWIR.
> It baffles me how people come up with things from out of nowhere. The 558/598 are a different series altogether. Don't even know how the hell the 518 has been added to this.


 


  I looked it up and that´s what google came up with. I was only sure that it ws not the 598. Sorry if that was wrong and thanks for the clarification.


----------



## kiteki

Hey everyone, a gaming sub-forum is arriving shortly!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kiteki said:


> Hey everyone, a gaming sub-forum is arriving shortly!




We freaking did it guys, we did it!

What's funny is that I didn't know about that petition until about a month ago (for a 7 month old petition). Once I plugged it here, the votes started really ramping up. We couldn't have done it without all you guys supporting this, so thanks to all of you!


----------



## iSkullz

Yes!!! now we can talk about our gaming! Thanks to all voters...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I went to Game*(shaft)*stop and traded in Shinobido 2 for Hot Shots Golf. May as well get SOME of my money back for that crap called a game. Always been a Hot Shots Golf fan, so I figured it'd be worthwhile on the Vita.


----------



## BournePerfect

Well I'm getting some T1s later this week-so I'm in the game to buy a Mixamp/DSS/Tritton again...which device is most likely to power these the best? For reference, they should be a little easier to drive than the 600 ohm 880s...too bad I sold of my HK receiver with it's black background!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe the DSS is just a smidge more powerful, but the differences between the 3 aren't huge in terms of power, FWIH. The wired Mixamp has the quietest background though. Assuming you're not using a mic, all three should drive them loudly at least. The Mixamp drives 600ohm Beyers quite loud, based on personal experience. I'd still hook up another amp for better dynamics though, assuming you're okay with using the devices as a makeshift pre-amp.


----------



## BournePerfect

That was my next question-is anybody feeding the Mixamp out to another amp without much distortion or other problems? Also, is the wired Mixamp still available, or just the wireless?
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mikesin

Not sure if your talking to someone specifically but both the Wireless and Wired Mixamps should still be available. I use the Wired  Mixamp PRO myself and its great, I could feed it to my Fiio E9 which is currently unused now in the box, but the Mixamp powers the AKG K702 and DT770 PRO 80 with enough volume at around 12-1 o'clock, so theres plenty of power left and I don't think there would be any point, this is for the PS3 though..  and I am still able to use a microphone.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> That was my next question-is anybody feeding the Mixamp out to another amp without much distortion or other problems? Also, is the wired Mixamp still available, or just the wireless?
> 
> -Daniel


 

  
  Only the wired mixamp is available stand-alone. The wireless is only being sold bundled with astro headsets


----------



## Ricanlegend

Trust me you don't want the wireless mixamp especially if you have a dual router it will have interference


----------



## NamelessPFG

Someone just linked me this nice set of videos in my PC gaming audio thread.
   
  While they're all PC versions of games (sorry, MLE and other console-only gamers), they nicely highlight the difference between plain stereo ("Xonar"), Dolby Headphone ("Xonar DH"), and CMSS-3D Headphone ("X-Fi", obviously only relevant to PC users).
   
  It's much easier to listen to these properly-configured-and-recorded videos if people want to decide what's right for them.


----------



## Drastion

Does anyone hear know if the q701 pads will fit on the beyer headphones. I want to try some angled pads for my new headphones to try and inrease the soundstage on them.

THIS IS SPARTA!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hi guys,
   
  I really liked the K701 for gaming as in atmosphere, focus, positional audio but the comfort is incredibly bad and now I have the chance to replace them with DT 880 600 Ohm or DT 990 600 Ohm. Now the question is. Do they come close musically and are they that bad behind in terms of gaming? I prefer singleplayer mostly and I am very picky about atmosphere, soundstage.
   
  Can the 5-7 o'clock problem be fixed by positioning the surround back LS in the Asus Essence STX Panel?
   
  thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're playing single player games, the 5-7 o clock positioning isn't as important or nearly as dicernable as when you're purely focused on competitive gaming. The DT880 will be your best alternative which I actually like overall more than the AKGs, 5-7 hole aside. The DT880's have a great soundstage (not as big as the AKGs, which is understandable), surround sound, and atmosphere is great. Only those of us who pay special attention to games like CoD would be irked by the 5-7 positions not being AS good. Willing to bet a lot of you wouldn't even be able to tell. I and a few others are just a bit extreme in our gaming habits, which is why we can. There are times when I don't even think the 5-7 positions are that great on ANY headphone. It's a weakness of Dolby Headphone itself, more than the DT880s.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Thanks, this clarified it for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Do you consider the DT 990 "treblesome" compared to the K701? (which was ok to me)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The treble on the DT990 is quite pronounced compatred to the K701. Not many headphones can touch that sizzling treble. Anyways, the DT990 and K701 are VERY different headphones. The DT990 is very bass and treble oriented, more for fun than anything, while the K701 is analytical, and doesn't have much in the way of fun. They compliment each other actually, since they're so different.


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you're playing single player games, the 5-7 o clock positioning isn't as important or nearly as dicernable as when you're purely focused on competitive gaming. The DT880 will be your best alternative which I actually like overall more than the AKGs, 5-7 hole aside. The DT880's have a great soundstage (not as big as the AKGs, which is understandable), surround sound, and atmosphere is great. Only those of us who pay special attention to games like CoD would be irked by the 5-7 positions not being AS good. Willing to bet a lot of you wouldn't even be able to tell. I and a few others are just a bit extreme in our gaming habits, which is why we can. There are times when I don't even think the 5-7 positions are that great on ANY headphone. It's a weakness of Dolby Headphone itself, more than the DT880s.


 


  I'm with you on this MLE.  I even wondered if the new "speaker position" feature on the DSS2 could fix this for a lot of headphones.  I'm thinking about ordering it this week infact.  Have you checked out the DSS2?


----------



## ninjikiran

I guess its head of the beholder, I still find the 702s to be the lightest most comfy headphones I have put on in any price bracket from $1-$1500


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





drastion said:


> Does anyone hear know if the q701 pads will fit on the beyer headphones. I want to try some angled pads for my new headphones to try and inrease the soundstage on them.
> THIS IS SPARTA!


 


  I don't think the Q701 pads are angled.


----------



## Drastion

phos said:


> I don't think the Q701 pads are angled.




They are thicker in the back than the front. Not sure how it angles the drivers since they rest on the back of the head. That may be the whole point compensating for the roundness of the skull.

I may try just padding the back of the pads. Not sure what to use though something light and airy I would quess.


----------



## SniperCzar

Just got my ModMic in the mail today, really pleased. I have the spare sticky magnet that I never actually activated the stick on attached to the corner of my case as a spacer for when I'm not gaming, I can just snap on the mic without the magnet flattening out the twist I put on the short side to curve in and touch the audio cable going out of the Beyers. Current setup is DT770 fed by 550Ti Nvida HD audio over HDMI>Onkyo 509>HP out to E17Aux with a separate run of TOSLINK to mini into the E17 Opt for CMSS in gaming and I snap on the ModMic for voice. I don't expect some of you to follow all that but don't worry, I'm going to take some pics soon here before I dive into ME3 for the next week 
   
  Edit - Pics


   

   

   
  On that last one you can see the cords for the mic and Beyers stay together even with no wrapping or sleeve.


----------



## Ricanlegend

That looks amazing where did you buy the Modmic at ? Does it comes with everything you need to stick the mic to any headphone ? I want to do something like this for my akg 701 but I have no clue how to do what you just did


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very nice, Sniper. I'd love to put my monitor on top of my NFB5, but monitors have terrible vertical viewing angles, and if its any higher, it will get monochromatic... but the setup would look much nicer. I may have to test it out when I get home.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ninjikiran said:


> I guess its head of the beholder, I still find the 702s to be the lightest most comfy headphones I have put on in any price bracket from $1-$1500




Oh, I agree with this. I find the AKGs to be the most comfortable headphone I've owned aside from the cups being too big to lay down comfortably with. The only headphone I've used that's more comfy was my ex's Steelseries Siberia V1. They had a similar design to the AKGs, but with smaller cups. SO COMFY.

The pads on the AKGs never bothered me. They aren't as soft as the Beyer 880/990s, but they are still comfy. The only comfort issue with the AKGs is the bumps, and that really does go away after about a week of using them, perhaps sooner.


----------



## He11fire217

Quote: 





ricanlegend said:


> Trust me you don't want the wireless mixamp especially if you have a dual router it will have interference


 


  I own the Mixamp 5.8 and have never had a problem with interference. It sits about 3 feet from my router.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do you have a dual band router that works in 5.8ghz frequency? Because that'd be the only reason the Mixamp 5.8 could have interference. Even then, 5.8ghz is a significantly less crowdedthan 2.4ghz, so I wouldn't see the Mixamp 5.8 having issues.

I myself haven't heard a single distortion from my 5.8, AT ALL aside from testing how far I can have the Rx unit away from the Tx, which was pretty far before audio dropped out. Sometimes I play from another room, and the audio is perfect, even with a wall separating them.


----------



## mindstarr

OK MLE - here's a tough one for you.
   
  You have up to $600 to spend on one headphone (not headset) for gaming (online eg BF3 and single player eg Mass Effect) and ALSO listening to music, mostly electro/dubstep. Source is PC soundcard. 
   
  You can also spend up to $300 on an amp or Mixamp.   
   
  You can choose one open and one closed headphone option and one amp.
   
  Go!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





drastion said:


> Does anyone hear know if the q701 pads will fit on the beyer headphones. I want to try some angled pads for my new headphones to try and inrease the soundstage on them.
> THIS IS SPARTA!


 


 I don't think so.  The AKG pads are a twist-lock type, whereas the beyer pads you stretch over the ear cup.  You would have to stick/glue the akg pads on.


----------



## Phos

It might be worth a shot to get some lawton audio pads, supposedly Denon pads fit HiFiMan pads which fit beyer pads.  
   
   
   


mindstarr said:


> OK MLE - here's a tough one for you.
> 
> You have up to $600 to spend on one headphone (not headset) for gaming (online eg BF3 and single player eg Mass Effect) and ALSO listening to music, mostly electro/dubstep. Source is PC soundcard.
> 
> ...


 

  (I know this wasn't directed at me) How about the HiFiMan HE-4 off a mixamp (or similar) -> O2?  Actually I dunno if anyone has ever tried the HE-4 off an O2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindstarr said:


> OK MLE - here's a tough one for you.
> 
> You have up to $600 to spend on one headphone (not headset) for gaming (online eg BF3 and single player eg Mass Effect) and ALSO listening to music, mostly electro/dubstep. Source is PC soundcard.
> 
> ...




Simple: 

D7000 ($590) + JDS Labs Objective O2 amp ($150) + Mixamp ($130) + Fiio D3 DAC ($30, IF your source has an optical out, if not the Fiio E10 for $80+ as a USB DAC) = PROFIT

Though if you're gaming ON the PC, there are cheaper alternatives to the Mixamp and give you the same benefit. Go to the PC Gaming thread (link on the first page), for the right soundcard for you.

For a one all headphone, my vote goes to the D7000, no doubt.

And there is no way in hell the O2 can power the HE-4 properly. The HE-4 is known to need over 1watt per channel. At that point, the cheapest solution would be Audio-GD stuff, which are very powerful for the price. My NFB5 puts out around 3 watts for the HE-4. The cheaper Sparrow and NFB 12.1 also have the same power rating, though cheaper internals.

The HE-4 was noticeably struggling with the E9, which (at the HE-4's 38ohm) has more power than the O2.


----------



## Ilya--s

I find HE4 is excellent for multiplayer games, with both CMSS3D & DH - better than AD700 & DT880. it's nice for singleplayer too. But with proper amplification, of course.
LCD2 R2 gets my vote for Singleplayer, i place D5000 in the 2nd place.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He's not going to get the LCD2 R2 for $600.

And I do like the HE-4 for all gaming purposes, but it needs some serious power behind it. The Audio GD stuff doesn't have analog inputs until you hit higher price points, so you can't attach them to the Mixamp. The cheapest amp solution I personally would get for the HE-4 that has analog inputs would be the Audio GD C.2.2 and that costs around the same as the Schiit Lyr. Not exactly cheap.


----------



## Ilya--s

HE4 is very good with something like T-AMP, it's cheap, but a little diy skills requreid.
LCD2 isn't actually my recommendation for him, they are just great headphone for gaming 
also, in my country D7000 costs around $1200.


----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Simple:
> D7000 ($590) + JDS Labs Objective O2 amp ($150) + Mixamp ($130) + Fiio D3 DAC ($30, IF your source has an optical out, if not the Fiio E10 for $80+ as a USB DAC) = PROFIT
> Though if you're gaming ON the PC, there are cheaper alternatives to the Mixamp and give you the same benefit. Go to the PC Gaming thread (link on the first page), for the right soundcard for you.
> For a one all headphone, my vote goes to the D7000, no doubt.


 
   
  Thanks for the response - genuinely helpful BUT there is a premium on simplicity and you have recommended a lot of wiring. I'm a complete noob and the chances are I'd screw something up with connecting all the bits and also getting the PC settings right.  
  Why do I need all this gear (amp+mixamp+DAC)? Would a great set of headphones + an amp not do the trick?
  Also you only chose the Denon D7000 but did not give an open backed (or semi-open) option as well...?


----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Simple:
> D7000 ($590) + JDS Labs Objective O2 amp ($150) + Mixamp ($130) + Fiio D3 DAC ($30, IF your source has an optical out, if not the Fiio E10 for $80+ as a USB DAC) = PROFIT
> Though if you're gaming ON the PC, there are cheaper alternatives to the Mixamp and give you the same benefit. Go to the PC Gaming thread (link on the first page), for the right soundcard for you.
> For a one all headphone, my vote goes to the D7000, no doubt.
> ...


 

 Also, D7000 costs nearly $1000 in the UK...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, that's why i say go to the PC gaming thread. The people there are a LOT more helpful than I'd be in how you're going to set all this up.

If $600 is the limit on headphones, then:

D2000 Closed
+
Q701 Open
+
Good soundcard like the Essence STX (which has a strong amp by itself, is a soundcard which means it's a DAC, and has Dolby Headphone)
+
Optional: JDS Objective O2 amp

That saves you a lot of money and does everywthing you want. If you feel like being even more audiophile for music and non gaming needs, then you can decide on an external dac, later on for music needs. For now, these three things would be quite enough.

This would be the route I'd go in your position.


----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, that's why i say go to the PC gaming thread. The people there are a LOT more helpful than I'd be in how you're going to set all this up.
> If $600 is the limit on headphones, then:
> D2000 Closed
> +
> ...


 

 This is genuinely helpful. Very grateful for the advice.
  Is the D5000 much better than D2000? I could stretch to the D5000 if so.
  BTW I just bought those Koss KSC75's you really like for £9 from Amazon, just for fun.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D5000 has the same exact drivers as the D2000. The wood cups are what gives it a different sound. I haven't heard either, but I heard they were the warmest and smoothest of the three Denons. I don't like anything warmer/smoother than the D7000, so I personally would go for the D2000 over the D5000, but if more bass and smoothness is what you want, the D5000 would be a better option for you. Apparently the D7000 has the least bass of the three, and it's still very bassy, so I would probably find the D5000 overwhelming.


----------



## mindstarr

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


>





> Optional: JDS Objective O2 amp
> That saves you a lot of money and does everywthing you want. If you feel like being even more audiophile for music and non gaming needs, then you can decide on an external dac, later on for music needs. For now, these three things would be quite enough.
> This would be the route I'd go in your position.


 

  
  Thanks for the great feedback on Denons.
  I can't find the JDS amp in the UK. Any alternatives?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/

This is the UK dealer that sells built O2 amps. The AC adapter may not be included, but it uses a standard one that can be bought anywhere. Just read up on it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/
> This is the UK dealer that sells built O2 amps. The AC adapter may not be included, but it uses a standard one that can be bought anywhere. Just read up on it.


 
   
  £99 for an amp ain't exactly cheap. It's not on nodding terms with cheap. It couldn't even send cheap a postcard.
  Is it really worth that much? Why not a Fiio E9/10 which are cheaper (£73/£62 respectively) and easy to source from Amazon?
  Sorry if this is blindingly obvious to everyone else on here, but don't they do the same thing, and if so, will there be a large difference?


----------



## DCB305

Turtle Beach DSS2 with the Syba USB audio adapter works great for chat capability on the PS3 (not sure if there is a solution for Xbox360). I received the Syba yesterday, it took about 5 days, changed some settings in the PS3 accessory menu and there you have it chat feature in effect with 3rd party headphones and mic/headset.
   
  I also noticed something while playing MW3, the DSS2 does an excellent job of positional audio. Maybe it was the EQ that allowed me to sound whore noticeably better, I had it set to the mid boost and the 3rd setting for surround angles. It was just an overall better experience than using the Tritton ax720 it was noticeably better and not what I remember when I posted my initial experience a while back. IDK I really didn't pay any mind to it at the time as I was playing just to check the mic and chat feature using the Syba. I remember thinking that damn I can hear exactly where these guys are coming from with ease and that it must be frustrating to the opposition as I would be waiting for them to come around a corner.
   
  Anyhow I am fully satisfied now with the DSS2 now that I have the ability to chat, so now my nephew has a new Tritton ax720 set-up.
   
  BTW: I game with the PC360, hopefully I will be getting the Q701 and m-stage soon. Also I noticed a few pages back saying that the DSS has a pretty powerful amp, it is definitely not as powerful as the ax720 decoder, but the quality of sound seems better and there is no or very little noise from the DSS2 (if there is any noise I can't hear it).


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mindstarr said:


> £99 for an amp ain't exactly cheap. It's not on nodding terms with cheap. It couldn't even send cheap a postcard.
> Is it really worth that much? Why not a Fiio E9/10 which are cheaper (£73/£62 respectively) and easy to source from Amazon?
> Sorry if this is blindingly obvious to everyone else on here, but don't they do the same thing, and if so, will there be a large difference?


 


  Hi mindstarr, replying you here instead of your other thread for convenience.
  I think MLE has more than answered your queries on Denons, but just to respond to what you asked me--nope, no opinion on Denons because I've not tried any of them.
   
  About the O2: in all my time on Head-Fi I really haven't seen an amp that has had such a high pick-up rate and low resale rate, plus it seems to sit happily with people who are die-hard objectivists, as well as the more subjective crowd (i.e. people who heavily favour more romantic descriptions of sound and eschew measurements, graphs, etc.).
  In sum, most everyone who's tried an O2 seems to love it. It's versatile enough to drive both small earphones and big, power-hungry ones. It's transportable--can be powered by AC and by battery. It's not huge. Basically, if I didn't have a desktop amp, I'd have ordered an O2 myself. And it's so popular at the moment that if you don't like it, you'd more than likely be able to sell it for little loss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If that much is too expensive for an amp, then you're in the wrong place. That is downright the best value/performance for amps in general to come a long time. The cheaper alternatives would be the Fiio stuff, which aren't technically proper for the Denons or the AKGs, as their output impedance are too high. The O2 has all the proper specs, power, and price.

The ONLY reason I don't have the O2 is because I wanted a full-sized desktop amp, the input jack is in the front (I want it on the back), and because the ODA is due out soon which is the desktop version of the O2, and I'd have waited for that if I hadn't bought the NFB-5.


----------



## mindstarr

Eric_C - thanks for your insights on the O2. Appreciated.


----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If that much is too expensive for an amp, then you're in the wrong place. That is downright the best value/performance for amps in general to come a long time. The cheaper alternatives would be the Fiio stuff, which aren't technically proper for the Denons or the AKGs, as their output impedance are too high. The O2 has all the proper specs, power, and price.
> The ONLY reason I don't have the O2 is because I wanted a full-sized desktop amp, the input jack is in the front (I want it on the back), and because the ODA is due out soon which is the desktop version of the O2, and I'd have waited for that if I hadn't bought the NFB-5.


 

  
  Thanks again. Worth waiting for the ODA then? Do you know when it's coming out?


----------



## Fa11ou7

Does anyone have experience running wired headphones from the wireless gaming amps (that have an audio out)? I'm thinking of the Tritton 720/ X41/ MX5 amps, I ask because I just purchased a used MX5 setup and would love to use the wired option for single player if the headset doesn't cut it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindstarr said:


> Thanks again. Worth waiting for the ODA then? Do you know when it's coming out?




The ODA will be similar to the O2 with a few added things, though I dunno what those are. The ODA's going to be sometime this year, but no firm release date. People speculate summer.

The ODA is going to be more expensive than the O2, so if that's an issue, you may as well spring for the O2.

That, AND you have to actually wait for certain companies to sell them pre-built which will taken even longer. The O2 and ODA are open source, meaning that they are generally actually built by users themselves.


----------



## mindstarr

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/
> This is the UK dealer that sells built O2 amps. The AC adapter may not be included, but it uses a standard one that can be bought anywhere. Just read up on it.


 

 I looked into the O2 and I don't really like the styling much. I know it's all about the sound with you guys but at the end of the day it's going to be sitting on my desk all day so I have to like the way it looks. Are there any good alternative amps for the Denon D2000/5000 / AKG Q702 / Beyer DT-990?  
  
  Thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the price, no. The Asgard is the sleekest looking amp near the price range, and its $250.


----------



## DCB305

For the Q701 would you prefer the asgard or the m-stage?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The ODA will be similar to the O2 with a few added things, though I dunno what those are. The ODA's going to be sometime this year, but no firm release date. People speculate summer.


 

 The ODA is mostly about better ergonomics with RCA inputs on the back and a 1/4" jack on the front instead of only 3.5mm jacks and everything crammed on the front.


----------



## Rebel975

I'm a little late to the party (how is there always 2-3 pages of new comments when I check this thread several times a day?) but I'd just like to say that 1) Only cheap TN panels have bad vertical viewing angles. 2) MLE- didn't you get release date delivery from Amazon? If you did, how the heck are they letting it get to you one day after the fact? I'd be very mad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the game didn't have a release date delivery. I ASSUMED it did, but strangely, it didn't. It had the typical Prime shipping. :frown:

As for monitors, mine has fantastic viewing angles. HOWEVER, I've never seen a monitor with VERTICAL viewing angles that don't wash out when viewing from a lower than eye level spot. On mine, the washing out is minimal, but it still bothers me. I'm picky with my PQ.


----------



## Rebel975

How could they not have release date delivery? What a strange move on their part.
   
  Do you have a TN panel? Check out the viewing angles on my IPS monitor (HP ZR2740w... I've only had it a few weeks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno...

http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-FHX2300-23-Inch-Widescreen-Display/dp/B0029E2A08/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331056003&sr=8-1

Have had it for about 2 years now (lol, Amazon states I bought it on march 8, 2010, so I'll be 100% correct in two days  ). It's a glossy panel (I absolutely loathe matte displays), and has PQ very much like a Samsung glossy LCD/LED. The viewing angles are fantastic, but the top (if showing dark colors) does get dimmer if you view from a lower than eye level spot.

Still, my main display is a 65" Panasonic ST30 Plasma which I use for everything outside of web browsing. That baby has amazing PQ, no matter where I watch it from.


----------



## GigaFi

160/160 is definitely a TN panel 
  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno...
> http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-FHX2300-23-Inch-Widescreen-Display/dp/B0029E2A08/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331056003&sr=8-1
> Have had it for about 2 years now (lol, Amazon states I bought it on march 8, 2010, so I'll be 100% correct in two days
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Doesn't matter one bit to me. The display is rich and beautiful, and I come from owning nothing but high end Samsungs for the past 5 years, aside from my first venture into Plasma with the Panny ST30. The monitor still rivals the PQ on my Plasma, aside from night time viewing. I'm an avid PQ fan, and calibrate my displays for hours to DAYS. That Gateway monitor is beautiful. 

I wouldn't spend money on an IPS panel, because my monitor use is secondary to my Plasma. Anything important to picture quality gets shown on the Plasma.


----------



## Rebel975

Yeah, his monitor is a TN. As for that TV- I just looked it up, and plasmas have 178 degree viewing angles. Same as an IPS monitor. I'm so glad I bought one. I never knew things could look so good. 1440p is just icing on the cake after considering how good the colors are.
   
  You game on a 65" screen? Jesus dude. haha
   
  Oh wait- this is a sound thread. My bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for resolution, I won't get anything over 1080p until stuff actually USE higher than 1080p resolution. We're barely at 720p for gaming, 1080i for television broadcasts, let alone 1080p. Text and web browsing look perfectly fine at 1080p, and Blu-Rays don't accept anything over 1080p anyways. All that extra res would be used just for documents and photos. Things that I don't hold much importance to. I'd rather not upscale anymore than 1080p.


----------



## Rebel975

Well... PC gaming can fully utilize the 1440p. For Xbox gaming (since Xbox is purely 720p as far as I know) it just doubles the pixels up to fill the screen. It was weird when I had a 1200p monitor. Since there was no even multiple to scale things up to it all looked slightly stretched vertically. The colors looked like crap on that monitor anyway. Good riddance.
  
 If I didn't play any PC games I would have bought a huge TV. Actually, we just put a 42" TV in the living room. It's no 65" plasma (it's actually just a boring 42" LED-LCD), but it'll do.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As for resolution, I won't get anything over 1080p until stuff actually USE higher than 1080p resolution. We're barely at 720p for gaming, 1080i for television broadcasts, let alone 1080p. Text and web browsing look perfectly fine at 1080p, and Blu-Rays don't accept anything over 1080p anyways. All that extra res would be used just for documents and photos. Things that I don't hold much importance to. I'd rather not upscale anymore than 1080p.


 


  Little edit there. Consoles are the devices holding back gaming, since PCs have had higher than HD resolutions far before the current crop of consoles was launched and totally derailed the gaming scene.
   
  1080p is good for its purpose, which is television. The moment it infected computers by replacing 1200p with 1080p as a standard, that's when things took a turn for the worse, as we no longer have computer aspect ratios as standard, instead having television aspect ratios that are pretty much unusable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I much prefer 16:9, than 16:10 or whatever PCs are using nowadays. Hell, I'd get an ultra wide-screen display if it was standardized. The wider, the better.

And my edit was just that, an edit to add how super high res isn't for anything other than PC related stuff, which is generally not stuff that the majority of gamers, movie, or TV show watchers are going to ever utilize.

Believe it or not, PC resolutions have no place for anything OTHER than PC, whereas a resolution like 16:9/1080p has a broader and longer lasting appeal.

Consoles won't be going over 1080p for a good while, nor will TV or movies. Nor should they. In real applications, NO ONE outside of PC users will gain anything from going higher than 1080p from a non PC seating distance unless you own a massive display (talking about front projector size) and like to sit uncomfortably close. The benefits of 1080p are barely seen by most people as they sit too far away, in 720p discernable distances anyways. Most people think they're gaining any benefit from a 55" 1080p display from 9 feet away. Lol. They aren't. That's 720p territory. I have a 65" that I sit about 7-8 feet from. Any further, and I start losing the benefit of 1080p, any closer, and I may as well stick my nose up to the screen. 1440p and higher is just overkill, and just bragging rights unless you own a fornt projector. Try watching a 65" from 6 feet. It's ridiculious. And yeah, that's 1440p territory.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Consoles are not holding back gaming. Heavy production costs are the main problem and since the audience on consoles is bigger it's where the money is made primarily and where the costs can be covered up best. All games sell better on consoles.
   
  PC Gaming can't afford AAA by itself alone. Thank the consoles that you can enjoy ports (like Alan Wake, ME3 etc.) in 1080p and beyond aka better quality gaming. I have a pretty good rig myself and heavily favor PC over consoles but I can't hear about this nonsense anymore and people should start to accept the bitter truth and stop spreading this.
   
*to stay at the topic*: How does the HE-4 compare with the K701/DT880 for gaming? I can get a pair for 300.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Consoles are not holding back gaming. Heavy production costs are the main problem and since the audience on consoles is bigger it's where the money is made primarily and where the costs can be covered up best. All games sell better on consoles.
> 
> PC Gaming can't afford AAA by itself alone. Thank the consoles that you can enjoy ports (like Alan Wake, ME3 etc.) in 1080p and beyond aka better quality gaming. I have a pretty good rig myself and heavily favor PC over consoles but I can't hear about this nonsense anymore and people should start to accept the bitter truth and stop spreading this.
> 
> *to stay at the topic*: How does the HE-4 compare with the K701/DT880 for gaming? I can get a pair for 300.




The HE-4 is like a DT880/DT990 hybrid, with a smaller soundstage, better overall SQ, and much higher amp requirements. If you have a very powerful amp, the HE4 for $300 won't be touched by anything, assuming you can handle sparkly treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And lol, "INFECTED". That's hilarious. Sounds like a PC fanboy. If you weren't aware, this is a CONSOLE oriented gaming thread, not a PC gaming thread (which is linked on the first page). Go back to bragging how you can play games 1200p with your $2500 computer setup. I'd gladly take 720p playing on my couch with a controller, over sitting in front of a monitor with an overpriced setup just to enjoy gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The DT880 supposedly has a smaller soundstage than the K701 alraeady so this is even tinier? :O

 Right now I don't have any amp at all except the one on the Essence STX http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> The DT880 supposedly has a lower soundstage than the K701 alraeady so this is even tinier? :O
> 
> Right now I don't have any amp at all except the one on the Essence STX http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf




The HE-4 is on par with the DT880 in terms of soundstage, just maybe a little smaller, but still bigger than any closed headphone you'd get, including the D7000. The STX won't drive the HE-4 well. You will want at least something like the NFB 12.1 as the CHEAPEST option with lots of power.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Any other alternative (maybe 2-3) to the K701/DT880/HD670/HE-4 for gaming? (I don't mention music as I naturally expect good sound at this price level) I could go up to 400 (Euros) but then I have to stop.
   
  Here in Germany this stuff is more expensive with lesser chance of bargains than in the US.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I much prefer 16:9, than 16:10 or whatever PCs are using nowadays. Hell, I'd get an ultra wide-screen display if it was standardized. The wider, the better.
> And my edit was just that, an edit to add how super high res isn't for anything other than PC related stuff, which is generally not stuff that the majority of gamers, movie, or TV show watchers are going to ever utilize.
> Believe it or not, PC resolutions have no place for anything OTHER than PC, whereas a resolution like 16:9/1080p has a broader and longer lasting appeal.
> Consoles won't be going over 1080p for a good while, nor will TV or movies. Nor should they. In real applications, NO ONE outside of PC users will gain anything from going higher than 1080p from a non PC seating distance unless you own a massive display (talking about front projector size) and like to sit uncomfortably close. The benefits of 1080p are barely seen by most people as they sit too far away, in 720p discernable distances anyways. Most people think they're gaining any benefit from a 55" 1080p display from 9 feet away. Lol. They aren't. That's 720p territory. I have a 65" that I sit about 7-8 feet from. Any further, and I start losing the benefit of 1080p, any closer, and I may as well stick my nose up to the screen. 1440p and higher is just overkill, and just bragging rights unless you own a fornt projector. Try watching a 65" from 6 feet. It's ridiculious. And yeah, that's 1440p territory.


 


  That's why PC resolutions should continue to exist on PCs, instead of dropping pants and bending over. 16:9 is incredibly awful and unusable for PC usage, but it's passable for TVs.
   
  But you're right MLE, I didn't remember that this is a console related thread, a fact easily misunderstood due to the lack of any mention of consoles on the title. And "infected" was used deliberately to state how consoles at their current state are a laughing matter due to being devices dedicated for the sole purpose of gaming, yet they struggle to maintain half of the frame rates they should have. Apparently I hit a nerve, so take a chill pill.
  And it's due to consoles that we now have more horrible than not game ports that are poorly optimized for all the resources available on PCs.
   
  BTW MLE, you're the only one who brought "bragging" to the discussion, while I prefer to acknowledge that PCs can actually have results from higher specs. But continue using your ridiculous consoles with even more ridiculous "HD" claims.
   
  EDIT: Before you offend someone in the future, try to be respectful since no one offended you in the first place.
   
  I'm out.


----------



## Rebel975

Am I the only one who has a nice PC and a Xbox?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now you came here belittling console gaming, and how 16:9 INFECTED PCs. 16:9 is a perfectly fine resolution for PCs.

You definitely came off as a PC fanboy and by your last post, was proven right.

But I forget, we live in an ADD world, where everything now is about GRAPHICS, not actual gameplay.

Gone are the days when JRPGs took 80 hours to beat with everything. Now, it's 40 hours, with very little in the way of actual diverse in game content.

Play Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, and then play FFXIII or XIII-2. XIII-2 on the PS1 or PS2 with the same gameplay, but lesser graphics would have been laughed at back in the day. It's so barebones in comparison, but graphics are EVERYTHING now. A shame. I love graphics as much as the next guy, but not at the expense of gameplay.

To expand on that, what does PC do better than consoles other than graphics? Hmm... 

Not hating on PC gaming, just the PC gamers that have a stick pretty far up where the sun don't shine.


----------



## Rebel975

mad lust envy said:


> To expand on that, what does PC do better than consoles other than graphics? Hmm...
> Not hating on PC gaming, just the PC gamers that have a stick pretty far up where the sun don't shine.





Better is subjective- so nothing, really. I've got my PC for the keyboard/mouse RPG games (Fallout, Dragon Age, etc.) and I've got my Xbox for playing FPS's (Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.) with friends. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You, are a true gamer. 

Watch out that consoles don't infect your PCs by putting them close together though.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Now you came here belittling console gaming, and how 16:9 INFECTED PCs. 16:9 is a perfectly fine resolution for PCs.
> You definitely came off as a PC fanboy and by your last post, was proven right.
> But I forget, we live in an ADD world, where everything now is about GRAPHICS, not actual gameplay.
> Gone are the days when JRPGs took 80 hours to beat with everything. Now, it's 40 hours, with very little in the way of actual diverse in game content.
> ...


 


  Ok, so you insult me again. Better learn some respect before talking to grown ups, kid.
   
  And to make things clear, 16:9 isn't a PC resolution, but if you don't know that, maybe you should try talking to anyone who works with multimedia.
   
  The way you talk almost makes it sound like you know things. Alas, you don't, and live on a console fanboy world. More power to you.
   
  It's funny you mention graphics, as you seem to have issues following logics being discussed. I was talking about resolution, as in usable screen real estate, but you mistakenly thought about game graphics.
   
  What can a PC do better than a console? Hum, let me think... how about everything? All peripherals that are used on consoles can be used on PCs, including motion sensitive controllers and varying analog pressure sensitive controls. Graphics (like you crave to talk about) are obviously superior on PCs due to upgradability being a reality, sound is also superior due to the hardware available and (again) only limited by the game development that's linked to consoles.
  But I'm curious, what do you think a console does better than a PC? Now that should be interesting...


----------



## Rebel975

mad lust envy said:


> You, are a true gamer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   
   
  Yeah, I keep a 1/2" piece of MDF between my Xbox and my PC. The universe could implode if they see each other.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Yeah, I keep a 1/2" piece of MDF between my Xbox and my PC. The universe could implode if they see each other.


 


  Lol  Well, technically a Xbox isn't so different from a PC, o that should be ok


----------



## Fegefeuer

To disturb the system war. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Any other alternative (maybe 2-3) to the K701/DT880/HD670/HE-4 for gaming? (I don't mention music as I naturally expect good sound at this price level) I could go up to 400 (Euros) but then I have to stop.
> 
> Here in Germany this stuff is more expensive with lesser chance of bargains than in the US.


 

  
  and now back to it: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  16:9 allows more FoV and is cheaper in production. Once again. PC Gaming can't cover the huge productions costs except for rare ocassions like MMOs, Blizzard titles. Even Bioware titles now sell better on consoles. Multiplatform is a MUST. Understand economy and then come back and try to flame. Everyone knows that PC is technically superior, it's just the audience which is smaller and actually more prone to copy and pirate like dirty rats.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never once said that consoles do anything better than PCs. However, consoles are more commonly used for gaming due to their accessibility, affordability, and broader appeal. I can sit back on my couch and enjoy games playing on my controller, whereas playing certain games with a controller on a PC is just asking to get destroyed by the K&M users, giving you a serious handicap. No fun when you have to sit up, rely on the less comfortable K&M just to compete on an even level.

I grew up gaming. Started with an ATARI. So yes, I am, and will always be pro-console. Gaming will always be something that I prefer with a controller in my hands, laying back and enjoying.

 I understand that graphics aren't everything, so the benefit of PC gaming does NOTHING for me. What does it do aside from being able to post specs of how my $3000 rig can run Crysis at 2400p at 120fps. Lol.

Usable real estate? Yeah, 1920x1080p is SUCH an atrocious resolution with very little real estate :rolleyes:. Go back to your overpriced 6000p display so you can display the task bar in Ultra HD... lol.


In all seriousness though, I wouldn't mind games running sub-HD IF they ran at 60fps. FPS is more important than screen resolution to me. I guess that's why I think the consoles CoDs look better than the consoles BF's, even though BF runs at a higher res.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> To disturb the system war.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  Yes, 16:9 is cheaper in production, but only because of the multitiered HD TV phenomenon. I would be perfectly ok with consoles if they didn't cripple PC versions of the same games. I understand that at this point in time, crossplatform development is required, but there is too much skimping on porting. The piracy point though is a bit irrelevant because those who pirate, do so regardless of platform.


----------



## Rebel975

16:9 is perfectly fine when you have 1440 lines of vertical resolution anyway. It works out for me since it doesn't have to stretch my Xbox games out in weird ways. (I also hate having black bars- so screw that).


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Never once said that consoles do anything better than PCs. However, consoles are more commonly used for gaming due to their accessibility, affordability, and broader appeal. I can sit back on my couch and enjoy games playing on my controller, whereas playing certain games with a controller on a PC is just asking to get destroyed by the K&M users, giving you a serious handicap. No fun when you have to sit up, rely on the less comfortable K&M just to compete on an even level.
> I grew up gaming. Started with an ATARI. So yes, I am, and will always be pro-console. Gaming will always be something that I prefer with a controller in my hands, laying back and enjoying.
> I understand that graphics aren't everything, so the benefit of PC gaming does NOTHING for me. What does it do aside from being able to post specs of how my $3000 rig can run Crysis at 2400p at 120fps. Lol.
> Usable real estate? Yeah, 1920x1080p is SUCH an atrocious resolution with very little real estate
> ...


 


  Apparently I really hit a nerve, so just relax. Consoles are cheaper indeed, but I'm curious as to what you mean by accessibility.
  Yes, 1920x1080 is an atrocious resolution with little real estate for people who actually need screen real estate. But you wouldn't know anything of that by using 1080p screens stretched to infinity with your 55" TV LOL. Go back to your gaming pit little boy.
  And your console fanboyism kinda reeks, so I'll just leave you being unreasonable and worshipped as you seem to be.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> 16:9 is perfectly fine when you have 1440 lines of vertical resolution anyway. It works out for me since it doesn't have to stretch my Xbox games out in weird ways. (I also hate having black bars- so screw that).


 


  You talk of a curious point Rebel975. There isn't really a consensual opinion on whether aspect ratio scaling should be fixed or variable through stretching. Different people just have different preferences.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think 1440p would be the most ideal resolution, because it would cover those who actually run front projector setups. I owned a front projector with a 130" screen, and 1440p would've been perfect. 1080p was great, but the screen door effect was creeping up when sitting closer. Not an issue with TV displays though.

Anything above 1440p is absolute overkill, and highly unnecessary even for PC monitors, unless you wanna stick your face 3 feet from a 32" screen. 3 feet from my 23" is already somewhat ridiculous.

I am speaking as making 1440p the standard resolution for games AND movies. I don't see that happening anytime soon though. Gaming is too costly and making them run at native 1080p seems problematic even now.


----------



## Rebel975

I was obsessed with buying a projector at one point, but the nice ones are really expensive, and the idea of a bulb dieing on me just didn't sit well. 

I'm also kind of wanting to buy a different headphone amplifier as I have no interest in tube rolling/replacing dead tubes. I just want to buy something and use it for X years until I upgrade. I don't want to have to fuss with anything.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I was obsessed with buying a projector at one point, but the nice ones are really expensive, and the idea of a bulb dieing on me just didn't sit well.
> I'm also kind of wanting to buy a different headphone amplifier as I have no interest in tube rolling/replacing dead tubes. I just want to buy something and use it for X years until I upgrade. I don't want to have to fuss with anything.


 


  Well, some projectors are good enough to warrant bulb replacing, they're that good.
  And you can always go with solid state amps, they should fit your reliability requirements just perfect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rebel975 said:


> I was obsessed with buying a projector at one point, but the nice ones are really expensive, and the idea of a bulb dieing on me just didn't sit well.
> I'm also kind of wanting to buy a different headphone amplifier as I have no interest in tube rolling/replacing dead tubes. I just want to buy something and use it for X years until I upgrade. I don't want to have to fuss with anything.




Have you looked at the Audio-GD C-2.2? It's a solid state amp with a pretty damn good amount of power for the Lyr-esque price point. I too didn't wanna run tubes, which is why I didn't get the Lyr again, though it didn't exactly pair up well with the D7000 either.

As for front projection... I enjoyed the huge screen size, but it's really not worth it if you're not gonna run it in a dedicated room, and I too didn't like the idea of replacing bulbs, with all the use it would have been getting. Too rich for my blood. So I returned it and settled for the 65" Panny which is huge in my room anyways.

Once LED front projectors become affordable, I may jump in again. Call of Duty at 130" from 12 feet was a sight to behold. Watching some Anime Blu-Rays was also just jaw-dropping.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





roller said:


> Well, some projectors are good enough to warrant bulb replacing, they're that good.
> And you can always go with solid state amps, they should fit your reliability requirements just perfect.


 


   
  Yeah, a 130" screen would probably make replacing bulbs worth it. Maybe some day.
   
   
  MLE: No, I hadn't looked at any Audio-GD stuff. I was kind of waiting to see what Schiit's mid-tier stuff brings to the table. Then there is always the Objective 2. I'm very indecisive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rebel975 said:


> Yeah, a 130" screen would probably make replacing bulbs worth it. Maybe some day.
> 
> 
> MLE: No, I hadn't looked at any Audio-GD stuff. I was kind of waiting to see what Schiit's mid-tier stuff brings to the table. Then there is always the Objective 2. I'm very indecisive.




The Objective O2 won't power Orthos well though. Even less power than the E9 for lower ohms cans.

C-2.2

25 ohm : 4500MW
40 ohm: 3000MW
100 ohm: 1200MW
300ohm : 400MW
600 ohm: 200MW

That's plenty of power for any Orthos outside of the HE-6.

Having owned the NFB5, I'm now a believer in the Audio-GD amps. Though for anything less than the Orthos, I'd wait for the Objective stuff.


----------



## BournePerfect

Let's keep this on topic-the last thing Headfi needs is the cancer that is gaming fanboys running riot with their hate-there are plenty of sites for that. Also, AVSForum is likely a better place to discuss these AV/resolution matters.
   
  On topic-I have a Tritton decoder box arriving today, and a pair of T1s arriving Thursday. Should be a great weekend for some gaming and movies!
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bourneperfect said:


> Let's keep this on topic-the last thing Headfi needs is the cancer that is gaming fanboys running riot with their hate-there are plenty of sites for that. Also, AVSForum is likely a better place to discuss these AV/resolution matters.
> 
> On topic-I have a Tritton decoder box arriving today, and a pair of T1s arriving Thursday. Should be a great weekend for some gaming and movies!
> 
> -Daniel




I hope it works out well for you. The AX720 is somewhat hissy, but for the purpose of gaming, it shouldn't be much of a distraction.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

On another note, if I seem more irritated than usual, I am. 

I WANT TO PLAY MY MOTHERFLIPPING MASS EFFECT 3 AND HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW FOR IT TO BE DELIVERED IN THE AFTERNOON...AND I WORK TOMORROW. /CAPS

Please continue.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Objective O2 won't power Orthos well though. Even less power than the E9 for lower ohms cans.


 

 Going by the specs its really only the HE-4 and HE-6 (out of the new and in production ones anyway) that should be marginal on the Objective2.  I use the O2 and my main 'phones are modded T50RPs.  Its good with with my vintage Yamahas too.  Lots of people say they rock with the the LCD-2/3 as well.
   
  I haven't seen any reports of using the O2 with any HiFiMan 'phones yet though.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Objective O2 won't power Orthos well though. Even less power than the E9 for lower ohms cans.


 



 Good to know. I think I'll wait for Schiit's mid-tier stuff then. I've only had one product from them and I'd already consider myself a fanboy. If only the Lyr was solid state - It'd be perfect for me. Then again, I'm not someone to judge if a headphone amplifier is good or not. The Lyr is my first.
   
  I'm pretty sure their mid level stuff will be solid state. Maybe it'll have extra goodies too, like more inputs, more outputs, etc. I just don't know if I believe in balanced headphones (though I've never heard one).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> Going by the specs its really only the HE-4 and HE-6 (out of the new and in production ones anyway) that should be marginal on the Objective2.  I use the O2 and my main 'phones are modded T50RPs.  Its good with with my vintage Yamahas too.  Lots of people say they rock with the the LCD-2/3 as well.
> 
> I haven't seen any reports of using the O2 with any HiFiMan 'phones yet though.




You bring up a good point. The Hifimans after the HE-4 are considerably less power hungry in comparison, though with the typical Head-fi hyperbole, they make it sound like all of them require a nuclear reactor to 'fully drive'. :rolleyes:

I'd probably feel more comfortable with some good power behind just the Orthos anyways. I was quite shocked by how much the HE-4 needed, and I'm paranoid enough to feel the others need just as much. 

I wouldn't worry about anything outside of the Hifimans though. I'd happily hook up the LCD-2 to the E9 if I was ever gonna get one.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> But I forget, we live in an ADD world, where everything now is about GRAPHICS, not actual gameplay.
> Gone are the days when JRPGs took 80 hours to beat with everything. Now, it's 40 hours, with very little in the way of actual diverse in game content.
> Play Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, and then play FFXIII or XIII-2. XIII-2 on the PS1 or PS2 with the same gameplay, but lesser graphics would have been laughed at back in the day. It's so barebones in comparison, but graphics are EVERYTHING now. A shame. I love graphics as much as the next guy, but not at the expense of gameplay.
> To expand on that, what does PC do better than consoles other than graphics? Hmm...
> Not hating on PC gaming, just the PC gamers that have a stick pretty far up where the sun don't shine.


 
   
  UHH, I think you forgot a few SNES games. FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, need I go on?

 As for things PC does better than consoles other than graphics? True binaural sound and better media playback. But I digress. This is one of the few threads on Head-Fi where people don't spend all their time bragging about their 10k in AV equipment, and you're doing your best to turn it into a "pics of your epic rig" thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well you got me on the sound. But again, I'm a gamer for the gameplay first, everything else second. And PS3 games can have lossless audio, though I dunno what can transfer this to virtual surround, aside from Yamaha's Silent Cinema.

And dear god, how I miss the good old 16 bit days. Times were simpler back then. And games were better, IMHO. PC games can't capture that magic. Though Monkey Island was pretty ace.

I was saddened by the 'death' of 2D gaming. I'd kill for more 2D JRPG goodness.

I didn't mention 2D gaming, because I was talking about FFXIII-2 which would have been entirely possible on the PS1/PS2, with lesser graphic fidelity and with much more content.

The reason huge game like a remake to FFVII would be too costly and take too long to make is because there's SO much content on that game, that making it up to TODAY'S graphical standard would be pretty much impossible. Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia are the last two games to come close to old JRPG style gaming with a lot of actual content without much tradeoff in graphics. But those games are apparently not as graphically pleasing as everyone seems to want in a next gen game. I thought they looked great.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So, again. 2-3 great alternatives for gaming to the K701/HD650/DT880? 400€ max.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> So, again. 2-3 great alternatives for gaming to the K701/HD650/DT880? 400€ max.


 


   
   
  Could you get the Ultrasone PRO 2900's for that? I thought they had good positioning, detail, etc., but Ultrasone seems to be rather polarizing. Either you like S-Logic or you don't.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well you got me on the sound. But again, I'm a gamer for the gameplay first, everything else second. And PS3 games can have lossless audio, though I dunno what can transfer this to virtual surround, aside from Yamaha's Silent Cinema.
> And dear god, how I miss the good old 16 bit days. Times were simpler back then. And games were better, IMHO. PC games can't capture that magic. Though Monkey Island was pretty ace.
> I was saddened by the 'death' of 2D gaming. I'd kill for more 2D JRPG goodness.
> I didn't mention 2D gaming, because I was talking about FFXIII-2 which would have been entirely possible on the PS1/PS2, with lesser graphic fidelity and with much more content.


 


  You mean current games can't capure that magic. Game quality isn't so much platform related as it is related to development priorities. A most unfortunate situation, one that consoles try to fix through their indie gaming offers, but as great as indie gaming is, the lack of budget behind it prevents many indie games to reach the heights some very much deserve to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh god, I want a new Shadow Complex. Like YESTERDAY.

New games CAN capture that magic. It's just that developers aren't focusing on content. They are building content around the GRAPHICS first. It's a damn shame.

FFXIII pretty made it obvious by the exclusion of towns. They made the game so unnaturally linear and lacking in what made FF... well, FF. They focused so much on making everything pretty, that almost everything was taken out and over simplified.


----------



## Roller

Just like One Must Fall, Raptor, System Shock, among so many others. Ah, good old DOS days...


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You bring up a good point. The Hifimans after the HE-4 are considerably less power hungry in comparison, though with the typical Head-fi hyperbole, they make it sound like all of them require a nuclear reactor to 'fully drive'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Another thing to keep in mind is that some amps have distortion that slowly rises with power output before it very obviously clips.  If you have a few amps like that you may find that a really strong amp will sound better than a weaker one because the strong one will sort of be "idling" and not pushing itself while the weaker one may be "redlining" and not sound so hot but not grossly distorting either.
   
  OTOH the Objective2 and other good amps will stay super clean right up until they start to clip so you may need less power than some anecdotes would suggest.


----------



## SpEJay

Mad Lust Envy... I've read FAR too much of your writings, but i've had to join up because even though all your suggestions make sense, i still want to ask a couple questions i just can't get answers too... I seek your advice because of your experience... But obviously i know our audio tastes will be different anyway.

 So what i'd like to refer too is... Iam a huge gamer, 10+ hours a day... Everyday... That kind of guy... Ahh some say 'pro', i say it's an addiction problem... Thing is... Sat at home in my comfy livingroom, i have awesome surround going on, my room is filled with loud and beautiful noise & thus i've never bothered with headsets / headphones EVER.... All my pc & console gaming has been on a huge screen with loud, very bass heavy sound & not once have i wanted something on my head...

 How can you be a competitive gamer without the detail in little sounds being pumped into my ears? Well i don't NEED to rely on my ears to have the power of pure ownage, let's just say that... However...

 Iam drawing on the conclusion i've been missing out on a lot of audio detail, iam also now for the first time requiring a room to be quiet, yeah getting older now so the missus isn't exactly thrilled that i like the world to hear what iam doing ha... She also wants to be near me, and have some peace and quiet... Hmmm?

 Well my ears love bass, deep, heavy, just blown my skull up with a frag kind of thing... BUT i'd also like to experience the details i've been missing out on... I'd like to have the ultra experience of clarity, soundstage, the precise direction of everything BUT also actually have the 'fun' of bass there too, for both fun & competitive gaming experiences, music as well to a certain extent...

 So after spending far too long on reading up, going through everything you hold in high regard... Iam still at a loss where i perhaps could find my ideal experience...

 Iam not fussed about having a headSET or not, i'd prefer to have the best soundstage, clarity, direction & bass over any other choices like a mic being attached...

 I've also got money restrictions... As of right now, i've spent far too much elsewhere & have a budget here, so unfortunately i can't go for the D7000,,,

 I don't really have the cash to fund  a mixamp & E9 & quality cans.... So i'll deffinately be getting the mixamp & would require my headphones to get enough juice from that alone... In the future i'll consider getting the E9 & going up with the ohms or whatever...

 I understand the mixamp is a MUST... Especially for my console gaming right? Even if i got the PC360... Which i understand to be a great choice, however iam a little worried it's lacking some bass i'd enjoy?
  Now i dwell over the PC360, because although i love deep bouncing bass... It doesn't have to be super boom to make me happy, but i still need DECENT bass... Enough to keep my ears happy, for example if i play some heavy metal, will i get sexy guitar & bass going through my ears? Or will the bass not be there enough?

 I couldn't enjoy anything, gaming or otherwise without a decent amount of bass... Iam happy to not have the super powerful kinds from my headphones, but i still need something decent... I can't bare anything light in that department...

 This is why iam here making a long post asking your opinions... Because i just can't wrap my head around which headphones will give me everything decently.... I mean i'd rather have the best directional sound, decent clarity with the details & decent bass.... So long as i have that kind of thing... It's my needs lol.

 For the K701 you said ''The bass is light, but present enough for it not to be anywhere near a complaint for me'' .... So for my tastes, are you saying it's decent enough, it's nothing exciting and booming, but it's also not impossible to hear? Or is the 'light' side of it meaning i'd hate it because i wouldn't get anything from it?
  You also said the mixamp is enough to power this... Now say if i don't have any voice chat on, will i get really good volume or not? As in can i turn it up nice and loud or will it just go to a certain level that's just enough? That's the kind of thing i need to know, because i don't want anything to be quiet, and that's with just the mixamp of course.

 All the DTXXX ones are just confusing for me, especially if i read other peoples opinions, even yours, considering one pair might of been broken, you didn't try this one, and you had very mixed opinions but sounded undecided yourself with them all... So i wouldn't know what to think or consider with any of these...
  Especially when you said about the difficulty of hearing sounds from 5 - 7 'clock... I couldn't bare that...

 So hopefully this is enough information to show you where i stand, and finally my budget is basically enough to cover all these, it's not too restrictive but i can't go further than these, like i said the D7000 for example is a no go...

 Thanks a lot for your time in reading & helping me with my comments... It's been appreciated reading everything you've had to say & i guess i just need more details and info that you didn't make too clear ^_^
 Thanks again...


----------



## BournePerfect

Is the Tritton decoder noisier than the original DSS? It's noisefloor pretty much sucked-but I'm not sure any of that would be audible with the 600 ohm T1s...guess I'll find out shortly.
   
  -Daniel


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SpEJay: I can understand you. Although I may not game as long as you, I'm still a hardcore gamer inside.

Honestly, I'd start you off with the DT990 Pros. Seriously. Start there. Get that and the Mixamp, no amp OR mic.

They are open and WILL leak sound out, BUT it's a VERY big improvement in noise control over using external speakers. It will be audible for people near you, but not loud enough for them to be like, "OMG, turn that down!"... unless they are sleeping.

Seriously, start there. If it needs to be dead quiet, go with the DT770 Pro 80. However, the DT990 pro is superior to me that I'd recommend them over the 770 pro 80 IF absolute dead silence isn't a priority.

Bourne: Hmm... they are hissy. No other way to put it. It's just that for gaming, you're going to be too busy listening to everything else, that hiss will be the last thing you worry about. The hiss will be drowned out at all times other than when the in game audio is dead silent. That being said, even the lowest footsteps will be clearly audible, even on the AX720.


----------



## Drastion

MLE

If you are looking for some old school gaming and like the snes zelda game you might want to try this one out.

www.amazon.com/3D-Dot-Game-Heroes-Playstation-3/dp/B002I0J45C


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Could you get the Ultrasone PRO 2900's for that? I thought they had good positioning, detail, etc., but Ultrasone seems to be rather polarizing. Either you like S-Logic or you don't.


 


  Hi,
   
  I could get them for around 350€. I haven't checked into Ultrasone yet and before I sound like a heathen: Are they that good compared to the trio? Unfortunately MLE hasn't tested them in his awesome guide but I have heard about gaming with them or people preferring them over the trio. What's their soundstage?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, Drastion, would you believe me if I told you I'm not a Zelda fan?

I actually didn't care much for action RPGs. I was a turn based JRPG fan first. It took quite a bit for me to warm up to non-turn based RPGs. I honestly have to say that the Tales games were what truly made me jump into non-turn based RPGs, though I still prefer them.

I just never got into Zelda, or those types of games (especially top down)... though I didn't mind Alundra.


----------



## DCB305

SpEJay, I know you directed your questions to MLE, but  I have a question for you that may help you out.
   
  You mentioned that you have surround sound, well what kind or ss receiver do you have?
  Is it a Yamaha with Silent Cinema or Harmon Kardon with Dolby headphone?
   
  If so you wouldn't necessarily need the mixamp unless you need the chat feature, so you can apply those savings to your headphone/headset or amp.
   
  Also if you game on PS3 I have found the much cheaper Turtle Beach DSS2 $79.99 with the Syba $8.99 (for chat ability) to be pretty nice. It offers some preset EQ settings (bass boost, treble boost, mid boost, etc.) that I find useful, when I game in single player and want extra bass and treble or when I want to soundwhore in multiplayer I use the mid boost. It doesn't offer the voice/game volume mix that the mixamp does though (so just set up your preferences through the menu and you should be fine). As far as power it'll get the PC360 up louder than what's comfortable for me to game with and due to the PC360 neutrality the EQ presets have been a pretty nice feature.
   
  Just my 2 cents, I am sure other members of the forum will be better equipped to help you with your headphone needs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My apologies, I'm tired as all hell and should've recommended the DSS2 over the Mixamp since I was aiming to recommend the DT990 Pro without a mic. I'm just so used to the Mixamp, it's like a blind recommendation to me. My bad.

Coming from speakers, I wouldn't go for the PC360's though. That takes more of an acquired taste, and trading off a bit of that home theater-like immersion for soundwhoring fidelity. I feel the DT990 Pro is the best jump into headphone gaming for those used to home theater speakers, and can't afford something like the D7000. I'd recommend the D2000/D5000, but having not heard those, I can't be 100% certain how close they'd be into giving that experience without sacrificing audio fidelity. I can approve of the DT990 Pros wholeheartedly though, especially for the bassheads.


----------



## DCB305

Yeah, I left the headphone/headset recommendations to others like yourself that have more experience with different headphones/headsets. I just wanted to give him an idea of the power output of the DSS2, although the PC360 are relatively easy to drive it's all I have at the moment. Looking forward to getting the Q701's soon and an m-stage amp. Question would you prefer the shiit asgard or the m-stage to power the q701's.
   
  DSS2 Headphone Output: 3.5mm (90mW@16 ohms)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was one problem I personally had. I was deciding on the M Stage or the Asgard for like ever, and went out of left field and ordered the NFB 5 instead. The Asgard looks good on paper, but tdockweiler says he much prefers the AKGs with the M Stage than the Asgard, and others have stated the M Stage is just a better amp than the Asgard overall. I trust tdockweiler, so I'd have gone with the M Stage if I only had the Q701. Chico also loves his MStage with the Q701. That'd be enough to make me go that route. I didn't get the M Stage because the output impedance was too high for the D7000. In real world testing, I'm sure it wouldn't have been something I'd have noticed I'm sure, but still, I wanted something perfect for both D7000 and Q701, with no technical faults whatsoever.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I could get them for around 350€. I haven't checked into Ultrasone yet and before I sound like a heathen: Are they that good compared to the trio? Unfortunately MLE hasn't tested them in his awesome guide but I have heard about gaming with them or people preferring them over the trio. What's their soundstage?


 


  I thought it had an excellent soundstage, and the positioning was spot on. I think S-Logic worked very well with my ears. The "trio" may be a much safer choice, but you might like what the Ultrasone's can do with virtual surround sound.
   
  As for how they compare to DT880/K701's- I really can't say. I've only heard the DT880 very briefly, and I've never heard the K701. I wouldn't feel comfortable comparing them to the DT880 since there was a gap of many months between when I heard the 880's and when I bought the 2900's.
   
  The 2900's could of been end-game for me, but I always have an itch to upgrade.


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





> That was one problem I personally had. I was deciding on the M Stage or the Asgard for like ever, and went out of left field and ordered the NFB 5 instead. The Asgard looks good on paper, but tdockweiler says he much prefers the AKGs with the M Stage than the Asgard, and others have stated the M Stage is just a better amp than the Asgard overall. I trust tdockweiler, so I'd have gone with the M Stage if I only had the Q701. Chico also loves his MStage with the Q701. That'd be enough to make me go that route. I didn't get the M Stage because the output impedance was too high for the D7000. In real world testing, I'm sure it wouldn't have been something I'd have noticed I'm sure, but still, I wanted something perfect for both D7000 and Q701, with no technical faults whatsoever.


 
   
  Thanks, I was leaning towards the m-stage to begin with, but I had neglected to look into other possible amps and then the Asgard popped up somewhere in here and I need to do my due diligence. Thanks again.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I thought it had an excellent soundstage, and the positioning was spot on. I think S-Logic worked very well with my ears. The "trio" may be a much safer choice, but you might like what the Ultrasone's can do with virtual surround sound.
> 
> As for how they compare to DT880/K701's- I really can't say. I've only heard the DT880 very briefly, and I've never heard the K701. I wouldn't feel comfortable comparing them to the DT880 since there was a gap of many months between when I heard the 880's and when I bought the 2900's.
> 
> The 2900's could of been end-game for me, but I always have an itch to upgrade.


 


  Thanks 
   
  So not to confuse anything. S-Logic doesn't "interfere" with the way Dolby Headphone and/or CMSS-3D work?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





spejay said:


> Well my ears love bass, deep, heavy, just blown my skull up with a frag kind of thing...


 
   
   
  AD700s should do the trick.... (_kidding)_
   
  You'll probably find PC360 too bass light.  K701 as well.  Q701 (my favorite) has more bass than either.  DT990 premium has more bass than Q701 (but the treble was too much for me).  DT990 Pro has more bass than the premium FWIR.
   
  Some people like the Ultrasone Pro 900 or Pro 2900.  Never heard their s-logic sound though, I'm still suspicious that it would conflict with dolby headphone...
   

  
  Quote: 





bourneperfect said:


> Is the Tritton decoder noisier than the original DSS? It's noisefloor pretty much sucked-but I'm not sure any of that would be audible with the 600 ohm T1s...guess I'll find out shortly.
> 
> -Daniel


 

  
  Zombie_x said the T1s are very efficient and get louder than the 250 ohm beyers at the same volume level.


----------



## chicolom

In my experience dolby headphone seems to work well with headphones that have a wide soundstage with lots of instrument separation going on within it.  DH then wraps that soundstage around in a circle and the separation carries over.
   
  When I tried the elusive Sony MDR-F1, it seemed to conflict with dolby headphone.  By itself with no DSP, it has a very involving, sphere-like soundstage.  It sounds out of head naturally, but it doesn't have all that much separation.  A good way to describe it, would be "pro-logic" sounding.  When you apply DH to it, it sounds like it has got two DSPs chained together.  Like you applying DH to a small pair of speakers, or applying pro-logic, then DH as well.  The directionality and positioning just wasn't as good as some of the flatter and wider soundstage headphones I've used. 
   
  It seems like s-logic _could _have a similar effect when used with DH.  Not having heard it, I won't say it does though...


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Thanks
> 
> So not to confuse anything. S-Logic doesn't "interfere" with the way Dolby Headphone and/or CMSS-3D work?


 

  
  It certainly doesn't mess with Dolby Headphone at all (I used the 2900's for many months with the Astro Mixamp and a Xonar ST soundcard), and I wouldn't imagine it would do anything to CMSS-3D either (I didn't have a CMSS-3D source to try them with at the time).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> It certainly doesn't mess with Dolby Headphone at all (I used the 2900's for many months with the Astro Mixamp and a Xonar ST soundcard), and I wouldn't imagine it would do anything to CMSS-3D either (I didn't have a CMSS-3D source to try them with at the time).


 


  Thanks again.  I will give them a try and see for myself if positioning, ambience and surround pairs well with S-Logic.


----------



## BournePerfect

The m-Stage is considerable better than the Asgard when paired with the K702. In fact I'd go as far as to say the Asgard is a very poor match for them (harsh, bright, brittle) and the m-Stage is very synergistic with the AKG (slightly warm, great bass impact, excellent transient response). I wouldn't be the first one to have these impressions either-it's a no-brainer.
   
  -Daniel
   
  edit: Yes I've owned both, along with a fully burned in K702.


----------



## our martin

samsung are bringing 21.9 oled screens out some time this year. they will have a clear border so you can link them up together with out the black borders which the nvidia three screen set up has..should be good when they eventually get around to bringing them out that is..i am still waiting for the super oled..


----------



## SpEJay

*MLE*: Thanks for your swift reply, so iam pretty much happy now just choosing between the two you said, will consult my partner hehe.
 But whilst iam here can i just ask...

 Your K701 thoughts are obviously eye catching with such words as SMACKDOWN & OWNAGE... So what made you recommend the DT990 Pros over the K701 for me?

 Lastly, as it's the better choice for me to get the DSS2 not the mixamp, what about the power if i went for the DT770 pro? Should i get the 250 instead of the 80? It's the same price, so is the power there & will there be much difference?
 ----------------------------------------------------
 ----------------------------------------------------
*DCB305*: Thanks for your input too, my setup is a messy custom thing and not something i can be bothered to go into lol, but i have had a look at the DSS2 you mentioned, i haven't actually come accross that, thinking that the mixamp was the solution... As it's cheaper than the mixamp & just as fitting to me, i think that's what iam going to get instead now... For the soundwhoring, couple EQ bits & as you said it has got the power too, it's all good for me.

 So to confirm... I shall be getting the DSS2 & you mentioned it has enough power to blast your PC360's louder than you need, so do you have any idea about the 80 or 250 ohm versions iam looking at?

 Thanks again!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





spejay said:


> Your K701 thoughts are obviously eye catching with such words as SMACKDOWN & OWNAGE... So what made you recommend the DT990 Pros over the K701 for me?


 
   
  More bass.


----------



## GL1TCH3D

Very nice list. Subscribing to this


----------



## clarknova

Just want to throw in that I'm an avid gamer and find the Ultrasone HFI-780's an excellent choice for gaming. Bass is tight and deep , but not distracting. Soundstage is accurate and I find placing NPC's much easier than on my HD650's.
   
  Highly recommended.


----------



## calpis

For me the Pro2900 is my end game headphone. It does movies, games (DH), and music excellently. But with all the talk about the Q701 has definitely piqued my interests and I really want to try them out. If anyone is wondering, just about all the Open-backed Ultrasone cans work really well with DH. Right now I am playing MW3 with some Sony CD2000's and they work pretty well too.
   
  I also use chat on xbox by just plugging a clip on mono mic directly into the controller and it works fine. In the voice preferences I set chat audio to 10, game audio to 8, and play voice out of both the headset and speakers. In the game, I set usually set master volume to around 50%. This is for those of us that don't have a mixamp but still want to use voice chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To those of us with PS Vitas (for the love of games, BUY ONE EVERYONE), Motorstorm RC (great reviews) is FREE for US PS Vita owners. Why is it free? Scion (aka Toyota's brand aimed at younger drivers), has sponsored the game here, and even added one of their cars in the game. I love free stuff! 



spejay said:


> *MLE*: Thanks for your swift reply, so iam pretty much happy now just choosing between the two you said, will consult my partner hehe.
> But whilst iam here can i just ask...
> 
> Your K701 thoughts are obviously eye catching with such words as SMACKDOWN & OWNAGE... So what made you recommend the DT990 Pros over the K701 for me?
> ...




Just wanna say, If you were going with the K701, you should go with the Q701 instead. An overall upgrade in pretty much every way. Just saying.

And yes, the DT990 pros have the whole package, while the K701 is strictly for competetive gaming use, and you won't find it nearly half as enjoyable as the DT990 Pros for pretty much anything but Classical.


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





> *MLE*: Thanks for your swift reply, so iam pretty much happy now just choosing between the two you said, will consult my partner hehe.
> But whilst iam here can i just ask...
> 
> Your K701 thoughts are obviously eye catching with such words as SMACKDOWN & OWNAGE... So what made you recommend the DT990 Pros over the K701 for me?
> ...


 
   
  Well I'm not completely sure on how well it will drive the DT990's, but here are some specs on the two units.
   
   
Astro Mixamp specs:
   
  Quote: 





> We asked Aron Drayer, marketing director at Astro Gaming, what is the highest impedance the Astro MixAmp can provide for using third party headsets and headphones, and he told us:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Turtle Beach DSS2 specs:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Headphone Output: 3.5mm (90mW@16 ohms)


 
   
   
  Based on this information I would assume that if the mixamp can drive them then the DSS2 can too as they both put out a similar load at 16 ohms, but I could not find any information in regards to the DSS2 driving higher impedance headphones. I am sure another forum member in this thread can help you out with that better than I. FWIW the PC360 are 50 ohm and like I said earlier the DSS2 has no problem with them.


----------



## Snow Blind

Now how is the DSS2, honestly?  I hear so many say that the original DSS sounds much better and that the MixAmp blows the DSS2 away?  In the market and deciding between the DSS2 and MixAmp.


----------



## mindstarr

Do Denon D7000/D5000/D2000 have Dolby Headphone?


----------



## TMRaven

Dolby headphone is a feature that's on many sound processors, not the headphones themselves.


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





snow blind said:


> Now how is the DSS2, honestly?  I hear so many say that the original DSS sounds much better and that the MixAmp blows the DSS2 away?  In the market and deciding between the DSS2 and MixAmp.


 
   
  Can't comment on the Astro mixamp or the original TB DSS, don't have one and never heard one either, although many seem to really like the Astro mixamp. As for the DSS2 I am definitely satisfied with it. I previously had the Tritton ax720 which is good, but had some noise (a hiss that was audible in quiet scenes). I have since handed that down to my nephew, since I have been able to get the chat ability with the DSS2 through using the Syba audio adapter (This works for PS3, not sure if there is a solution for chatting on Xbox360 unless you use a TB headset, although I think I have read that you can connect a clip on mic straight to the xbox remote).
   
  As for the DSS2:

 There is no audible noise , at least that I can hear.
 The EQ presets are a pretty nice feature, set to mid boost it definitely makes sound whoring easier for me.
 The positional audio is good, as far as the surround angles I can't really discern too much of a difference on the different settings, but I use the 3rd setting as standard.
 As far as power, it's definitely not as powerful as the tritton ax720 decoder, but per the specs is close to what the mixamp outputs. (Mixamp 93mW@ 16ohms; DSS2 90mW @ 16ohms)
 It allows an auxillary mix in, you can connect an mp3 or whatever and mix it into your gameplay like the Astro.
 It doesn't have a voice/game volume mixer like the astro, so you have to adjust that through the game settings.
 It's plastic, so it's definitely not as robust as the Astro.
   
  For the price I am definitely satisfied with it's performance. I too was looking into getting the Astro, but I just thought that it was too expensive IMO for what I was needing it for. The reason I went with the DSS2 at the time was 1) the price 2) the EQ (basically put it over the top for me).


----------



## mindstarr

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> Dolby headphone is a feature that's on many sound processors, not the headphones themselves.


 
   
  I see, thanks. I read a Wikipedia entry (link below) and it listed out some headphones like Astro A40,  etc so that's why I was confused:
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Headphone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because the A40s are typically sold with the Mixamp, which is the Dolby Headphone device I, and quite a few others here use to add to all our headphones for gaming.


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





dcb305 said:


> I have been able to get the chat ability with the DSS2 through using the Syba audio adapter (This works for PS3, not sure if there is a solution for chatting on Xbox360 unless you use a TB headset, although I think I have read that you can connect a clip on mic straight to the xbox remote).


 

  I did see that the DSS2 does not have a dedicated mic input.  So i'm guessing you must use a gaming headset with mic to have chat capability?  I have both a 360 and PS3, will be gaming on both and MUST have chat capability for BF3 MW3 on the 360... PS3 I don't need chat.  What are my options for chat with the DSS2 on 360?  Would a clip on mic and SteelSeries controller adapter work?  
   
  Also... cant find those old LabTec mic's everyone used to hack up and stick on their ear cup... any new, better clip on mics?  Been out of the "game" for a little.


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





snow blind said:


> I did see that the DSS2 does not have a dedicated mic input.  So i'm guessing you must use a gaming headset with mic to have chat capability?  I have both a 360 and PS3, will be gaming on both and MUST have chat capability for BF3 MW3 on the 360... PS3 I don't need chat.  What are my options for chat with the DSS2 on 360?  Would a clip on mic and SteelSeries controller adapter work?
> 
> Also... cant find those old LabTec mic's everyone used to hack up and stick on their ear cup... any new, better clip on mics?  Been out of the "game" for a little.


 
   
  I only have PS3 and I game using the PC360, but with the setup i have (DSS2 + syba) I can connect pretty much any headphone and mic combination as one would use with the mixamp. ( I have used the zalman mic i had sitting around and it works fine with my setup)
   
  In regards to chatting on the xbox IDK if the steelseries controller adapter would work (seems like it would work, but IMO I do not think it is needed, unless you want a switch to turn your mic on and off and for $39.99 not worth it, might as well get the Astro mixamp)  I do not have Xbox 360, but see below quote for a possible solution:
   
  Quote:  





> I also use chat on xbox by just plugging a clip on mono mic directly into the controller and it works fine. In the voice preferences I set chat audio to 10, game audio to 8, and play voice out of both the headset and speakers. In the game, I set usually set master volume to around 50%. This is for those of us that don't have a mixamp but still want to use voice chat.


 

 As far as mic's, I have heard  the Antilon mod mic referenced around here as a good mic or the deal extreme mic.


----------



## DCB305

BTW my set up for DH gaming on the PS3, Turtle Beach DSS2 $79.99 and the Syba audio adapter $8.76 :


----------



## Naingolann

Gotta grab that syba thingy asap. I have the DSS, but never thought of buying that. Thanks for the suggestion DCB305!


----------



## Snow Blind

Hmm... so this Syba adapter can't be rigged with a wire to the controller in some manner?  There is gotta be some solid way to get a DSS2 to work with chat on a 360!


----------



## chicolom

Turtle Beach should just man up and make a dolby headphone _mixer _for third party headsets.  They only want to sell stuff that people will use with _their_ headsets. They lose business to Astro because people get referred there as soon as they mention needing chat.  Just add a mic in, a 2.5mm out, and a mixing knob on the next DSS...


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





snow blind said:


> Hmm... so this Syba adapter can't be rigged with a wire to the controller in some manner?  There is gotta be some solid way to get a DSS2 to work with chat on a 360!


 
   
  Is this not an option for you?
  Quote: 





			
				calpis said:
			
		

>





> I also use chat on xbox by just plugging a clip on mono mic directly into the controller and it works fine. In the voice preferences I set chat audio to 10, game audio to 8, and play voice out of both the headset and speakers. In the game, I set usually set master volume to around 50%. This is for those of us that don't have a mixamp but still want to use voice chat.


 
   
  From what I know there are 2 ways to hook up a mic to the ps3 usb and bluetooth and only 1 way to hook up a mic to the xbox and that is through the controller. If anyone out there knows more about this please chime in. Ok, so from what I understand it is the xbox controller that handles the voice/chat wirelessly with the xbox 360. I'm not sure if you can hook up a usb mic to the xbox (my thinking is no) if so I would assume you can use the syba in the same fashion as I do with the PS3. But if the above post by Calpis works than why not hook up the mic direct to the xbox controller?


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Turtle Beach should just man up and make a dolby headphone _mixer _for third party headsets.  They only want to sell stuff that people will use with _their_ headsets. They lose business to Astro because people get referred there as soon as they mention needing chat.  Just add a mic in, a 2.5mm out, and a mixing knob on the next DSS...


 


  Agreed, they would sell a lot more of them I'd imagine if they did it would be just as expensive as the Astro mixamp, but I love competition in the market place should drive prices down and push quality up.
   
  Until then I am happy with my setup for just under $90.00.


----------



## Ricanlegend

Quote: 





dcb305 said:


> Agreed, they would sell a lot more of them I'd imagine if they did it would be just as expensive as the Astro mixamp, but I love competition in the market place should drive prices down and push quality up.
> 
> Until then I am happy with my setup for just under $90.00.


 


  I just bought an astro mixamp for $90.99 i think thats the best price i ever seen for it brand new .


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





ricanlegend said:


> I just bought an astro mixamp for $90.99 i think thats the best price i ever seen for it brand new .


 


  That's awesome where at, I'm sure there are plenty here that would like to know.


----------



## Ricanlegend

I got it by mistake i ordered the mixamp through amazon with expedited shipping but they made a mistake and shipped it ups ground instead of 2nd day air with enough bitching and moaning he gave me the $39 discount


----------



## Rebel975

Hey MLE- I just opened my Mass Effect 3 package from Newegg and found a copy of Madden 2012 inside. Now they are telling me that they will only ship out ME3 after they receive Madden from me. I'll probably have ME3 in 1-2 weeks at this point. FML.
  




Apparently I'm not the only one, either. Link


Edit: A friend suggested I try and exchange games at Wal Mart. It worked. 1-2 week wait avoided.


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





dcb305 said:


> Is this not an option for you?
> 
> From what I know there are 2 ways to hook up a mic to the ps3 usb and bluetooth and only 1 way to hook up a mic to the xbox and that is through the controller. If anyone out there knows more about this please chime in. Ok, so from what I understand it is the xbox controller that handles the voice/chat wirelessly with the xbox 360. I'm not sure if you can hook up a usb mic to the xbox (my thinking is no) if so I would assume you can use the syba in the same fashion as I do with the PS3. But if the above post by Calpis works than why not hook up the mic direct to the xbox controller?


 
  The connector would be an option... but I thought that only works with PS3.  I need chat and mute capability on the 360.  And I believe you're correct in that the 360's controller sends voice to the xbox... I don't know of a way to accomplish that with the DSS2.  Anyone rigged up their DSS2 successfully with chat/mute to the 360?  I apologize if i'm missing something simple here.


----------



## Ricanlegend

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Hey MLE- I just opened my Mass Effect 3 package from Newegg and found a copy of Madden 2012 inside. Now they are telling me that they will only ship out ME3 after they receive Madden from me. I'll probably have ME3 in 1-2 weeks at this point. FML.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Can you explain how you traded Madden for Mass effect 3 ? especially without a receipt ?


----------



## AxelCloris

Some stores allow no receipt returns for a store credit. Then just apply that credit to the new game. Or they may outright exchange it. Only works unopened of course.


----------



## Indread

This is a great resource for console gamers like myself. I own a PS3, and am in a situation where I can't turn the volume very loud, so I'm forced to purchase headphones which support surround sound.
   
  I've got a few basic questions which I can't find direct answers on when searching this thread.
   
   
   
  Are there any headphones which support true 5.1/7.1 surround sound, where sound comes from multiple sources in the headpones (several speaker sources for example)?
   
  I noticed some headphones marketed as supporting 5.1/7.1 surround sound. Is it correct of me to assume that the difference between these headphones with native surround support and regular headphones, are that they essentially have built-in amp/processor for Double Headphone, where as regular headphones would either require something like the MixAmp?
   
  I noticed a particular Turtle Beach headphone which touted support for "true Dolby Headphone, Dolby Digital 5.1, and Dolby Pro Logic II". The Dolby Digital part makes no sense to me, unless these headphones have more than 2 "speakers".  Do they actually mean "supports Dolby Digital 5.1, by converting the 5.1 signal to stereo, and then processing with Dobly Headphone"?
   
  Lastly, for gaming, how would the Koss KSC35, Koss PortaPros, PX-100, and PX-100 II's compare to the KSC75?
   
   
   
  Thanks a lot in advance, the help is appreciated.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





indread said:


> Are there any headphones which support true 5.1/7.1 surround sound, where sound comes from multiple sources in the headpones (several speaker sources for example)?


 

 Yeah, some headphones actually do have multiple "drivers" (name for the "speaker cones"). I think Psyko Audio makes a 5.1 set.
   
  Quote:


indread said:


> I noticed some headphones marketed as supporting 5.1/7.1 surround sound. Is it correct of me to assume that the difference between these headphones with native surround support and regular headphones, are that they essentially have built-in amp/processor for Double Headphone, where as regular headphones would either require something like the MixAmp?


   
   
  It'd be a false assumption. Unless you know for a fact they have 5.1 drivers, you don't know what they mean by "supports surround sound". Think of it this way: with things like the MixAmp and DSS, any regular headphone can support surround sound, right? So technically, marketers can say this about any headphone. 
  Welcome to the world of business. You can't assume.
   
  Quote:


indread said:


> I noticed a particular Turtle Beach headphone which touted support for "true Dolby Headphone, Dolby Digital 5.1, and Dolby Pro Logic II". The Dolby Digital part makes no sense to me, unless these headphones have more than 2 "speakers".  Do they actually mean "*supports Dolby Digital 5.1, by converting the 5.1 signal to stereo, *and then processing with Dobly Headphone"?


   
   
  You've just described (bold parts only) how the Astro MixAmp, Turtle Beach DSS, JVC SU-DH1 and Tritton AX Pro's decoder work.
  Link to the product page, please, or we can't verify any of that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





indread said:


> This is a great resource for console gamers like myself. I own a PS3, and am in a situation where I can't turn the volume very loud, so I'm forced to purchase headphones which support surround sound.
> I've got a few basic questions which I can't find direct answers on when searching this thread.
> Are there any headphones which support true 5.1/7.1 surround sound, where sound comes from multiple sources in the headpones (several speaker sources for example)?
> I noticed some headphones marketed as supporting 5.1/7.1 surround sound. Is it correct of me to assume that the difference between these headphones with native surround support and regular headphones, are that they essentially have built-in amp/processor for Double Headphone, where as regular headphones would either require something like the MixAmp?
> ...


 

 Dolby Digital will take a 7.1 (8 channel) or 5.1 (6 channel) audio feed, use Dolby Virtual Headphone (True Dolby Headphone), to process the audio so that when the 2 channel audio feed goes into your ears from the headphones, it fools your brain into thinking it's hearing 7.1 or 5.1 surround sound.
  Someone figured out how the 2 human ears we have process surround sound and Dolby applied that knowledge.
  A lot of the advertised 7.1 or 5.1 headphones are stereo (2 channel) headphones that come with a separate surround sound processing device.
  Dolby Pro logic is when you start off with a 2 channel audio feed and expand it to 5.1 or 7.1 for analog speakers (or a fake surround sound for headphones?)


----------



## NamelessPFG

No, Dolby Pro Logic is a means of encoding surround channels into two analog channels (or possibly into some Dolby Digital channels for height speakers in a possible 9.1 setup). It's not a stereo upmix like you described.
   
  Of course, these matrixed channels aren't as good as discrete channels ala Dolby Digital due to crosstalk and other issues, but with the right surround processor, I do notice some sounds coming from the rear in my GCN/Wii games (which use Pro Logic II as a rule; don't ask me why they didn't implement an S/PDIF output for Dolby Digital and DTS).
   
  The rest is fairly spot-on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To the guy asking about REAL surround sound headphones with multiple speakers... enjoyyour inferior headphones if you go that route. Stereo headphones with virtual surround sound BETTER by a mile, and the surround sound is as convincing as any stupid surround sound headset. I owned the Ax Pros...and they were just gawdamn AWFUL.



rebel975 said:


> Hey MLE- I just opened my Mass Effect 3 package from Newegg and found a copy of Madden 2012 inside. Now they are telling me that they will only ship out ME3 after they receive Madden from me. I'll probably have ME3 in 1-2 weeks at this point. FML.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol, Walmart beneficial fail?

I would have RAGED something fierce if I didn't get my copy of ME3 today. 

I got it, and I'm incredibly happy. Hell, seeing as I couldn't find the damn Collector's Edition anywhere, I settled for the standard one, bought the day one DLC (the Prothean one), and got to work.

I'm somewhat upset that I only have one save file. I could've sworn I did Renegade AND Paragon playthroughs of ME2, but only have the Renegade one, and I didn't save Wrex. AGH. Oh well, my second playthrough is gonna have to be barebones, and with the Rachni Queen, Council, Wrex, Ashley all saved, and Collector base destroyed.

I'm considering restarting ME3 again right now because the new 'pretty' hairstyle (I think its the one on the farthest right) on my femshep looks awesome, but the area between her eyebrows is constantly glitched where a piece of hair is going into her head and coming back out on the middle of her forehead, so it looks like she's growing a monobrow. FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU!!! She has to be perfect!

 My femshep is a beautified default ME1/2 femshep with black hair, and slight tweaks. I'm mad that the last hair style has that glitch with her features, even when recessing her brow depth all the way. The preset with that hair style doesn't have that glitch, but isn't exactly realistic looking. Screw it, I'm starting over, different hair style be damned. I can't believe I didn't notice when editing my femshep.

I'm also gonna go with Soldier class on Hardcore. I was playing with a Level 30 Sentinel, and wasn't digging the powers given, though Tech Armor will probably be incredibly useful for an Insanity run. I miss my Adrenaline Rush and special ammos.

Also gonna play through the Kingdom of Amalur demo so I can unlock the Chrakam Launcher and special armor for ME3.

On topic, ME3 is the PERFECT game to demo Dolby Headphone. The full game already has so many parts in the game where you can test surround sound placement. Sounds glorious with the D7000. Haven't used the Q701 yet.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> No, Dolby Pro Logic is a means of encoding surround channels into two analog channels (or possibly into some Dolby Digital channels for height speakers in a possible 9.1 setup). It's not a stereo upmix like you described.
> Of course, these matrixed channels aren't as good as discrete channels ala Dolby Digital due to crosstalk and other issues, but with the right surround processor, I do notice some sounds coming from the rear in my GCN/Wii games (which use Pro Logic II as a rule; don't ask me why they didn't implement an S/PDIF output for Dolby Digital and DTS).
> The rest is fairly spot-on.


 

 You right, got Dolby Pro logic mixed up with something else.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Some stores allow no receipt returns for a store credit. Then just apply that credit to the new game. Or they may outright exchange it. Only works unopened of course.


 


  This. I just took the unopened copy of Madden 2012 to the customer service desk and asked if I could trade it for another game. They never even asked if I had a receipt.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Using the Mixamp with the PS2 and Wii's RCAs yielded some pretty damn good results in terms of surround positional cues. While Pro Logic II sounds artificial and echoey as a whole in comparison to Dolby Digital through the Mixamp, I have to say that the actual surround placement was as good, if not better in some cases.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





passlogin said:


> Things to note:
> I live in Indonesia, So, if possible major brands, amazon discount doesn't apply either.
> I don't want worldwide shipping either, if it hit the custom, I'm dead.
> Seller in IND usually, their price is +$4-$7.
> ...


 

 Sounds like you only want to buy local. Unless you can show us what models of each brand the stores in your city sell, we can't really help you.
   
  Are there any local headphone forums where you live?


----------



## calpis

Here is my exact setup on using chat on the xbox w/o a mixamp and minus my headphones and receiver.
   





  Mono mic -> 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter -> Controller
   
  I mentioned the in game and console settings already. Important tidbits: There MUST BE a mono section in the mic chain in order to get your voice to be a suitable volume for using chat. No mono in the mic chain = very faint and inaudible voice. You can test it by just making a new voice message to a friend and play it back. Also it will be difficult to hear your chat during loud sections so you have to lower the master volume in game but sometimes it's unavoidable because the explosions or helicopters are just too loud, I just think of it as realism  Just find a balance.


----------



## Drastion

Passlogin

The corsair 1500 is said to be really good. Its usb though but if your only going to use it on pc it saves you from buying a sound card.

www.everythingusb.com/corsair-vengeance-1500-gaming-headset-21427.html


----------



## Eric_C

passlogin: Need to clarify--you want a headset (headphone + mic) to use on console and PC, must be closed, must have detachable USB soundcard, and must be available in Indonesia?
   
  Is your budget of $100 for headset only, or headset + USB soundcard?


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Here is my exact setup on using chat on the xbox w/o a mixamp and minus my headphones and receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  What do you mean by a mono "Section"?  So no matter what it's going to be low?  Hmmm... sounds like it would just be easier to go with the MixAmp.


----------



## DCB305

Quote: 





snow blind said:


> What do you mean by a mono "Section"?  So no matter what it's going to be low?  Hmmm... sounds like it would just be easier to go with the MixAmp.


 


  Mixamp would definitely be your best solution if the alternatives don't work for you.


----------



## calpis

snow blind said:


> What do you mean by a mono "Section"?  So no matter what it's going to be low?  Hmmm... sounds like it would just be easier to go with the MixAmp.




If your mic has a 3-pole connector them you have to use a stereo to mono adapter. If you don't use the mono adapter then your voice will be low/faint to other people. A headset like the pc360 has a stereo plug for the mic, so you'd have to convert it to a mono before plugging it into the 360 controller. I've used this method since COD4 and has worked flawlessly since. Another thing that will also work if you don't have a stereo to mono adapter is just a mono extension cable. Like I said, if you want to plug just a mic into the controller then there must be a mono section somewhere in the chain.


----------



## Phos

The 360's connector is a tiny (2.5mm?) TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) connector, presumably using tip for the mic and ring for the headset.  Stereo mics I guess put half their output to each channel.  A mono to stereo adapter is going to have both tip and ring connected to the tip of a mono mic.  I'm guessing the 360 uses the ring for the headset's speaker so you're basically going to be halving your mics output because one of its channels is going to an audio out where it isn't doing anything.  Ideally you could find/make a 3.5 TRS to 2.5 TRS (or even TS) where both channels on the 3.5mm female are connected to the 2.5mm male's tip.


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





calpis said:


> If your mic has a 3-pole connector them you have to use a stereo to mono adapter. If you don't use the mono adapter then your voice will be low/faint to other people. A headset like the pc360 has a stereo plug for the mic, so you'd have to convert it to a mono before plugging it into the 360 controller. I've used this method since COD4 and has worked flawlessly since. Another thing that will also work if you don't have a stereo to mono adapter is just a mono extension cable. Like I said, if you want to plug just a mic into the controller then there must be a mono section somewhere in the chain.


 


  Ahh, ok, makes perfect sense now!  Ever see any mic (as are common 2.5mm size) adapters with a mute switch?  That's one important factor i'm looking for... and you did say it's quiet hooking the mic up this way, no?  
   
  As for the actual mic, I know this new "mod mic" is popular... but is it any good quality wise?  For $30 it better damn well be lol.  I've heard bad things about the Zalman ZIM-MIC1.
   
  If using the Dolby box from the AX720's... how would one hookup their own headset and mic... the only output seems to be a unique port on the front... def. not a standard usb!


----------



## Indread

Thanks to those who took the time to respond to my questions.
   
  What is the general consensus amongst competitive gamers -- does simulated Dolby Headphone surround sound beat out true 5.1 channel headphones?
   
  I've read the Turtle Beach Ear Force HPX-1's have multple drivers/channels per ear piece, yet they are often paired with the MixAmp. Does anyone know the benefit of this? It seems pointless to add a mixamp.


----------



## Indread

Would you then recommend stereo / Pro Logic II output from a PS3 to a MixAmp, over Dolby Digital?

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Using the Mixamp with the PS2 and Wii's RCAs yielded some pretty damn good results in terms of surround positional cues. While Pro Logic II sounds artificial and echoey as a whole in comparison to Dolby Digital through the Mixamp, I have to say that the actual surround placement was as good, if not better in some cases.


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





indread said:


> Thanks to those who took the time to respond to my questions.
> 
> What is the general consensus amongst competitive gamers -- does simulated Dolby Headphone surround sound beat out true 5.1 channel headphones?
> 
> I've read the Turtle Beach Ear Force HPX-1's have multple drivers/channels per ear piece, yet they are often paired with the MixAmp. Does anyone know the benefit of this? It seems pointless to add a mixamp.


 

 Most ever review i've read states that headsets with multiple drivers sound nowhere near as good as a decent stereo headset running through a decoder.


----------



## Rebel975

The problem with multi-driver headphones is that you get 4 small/cheap drivers per ear instead of 1 bigger/high quality driver. As for the HPX's, I used to have that setup- I used the Mixamp because 1) Turtle Beach sells a cable specifically for HPX/Mixamp hookup and 2) it allowed me to mix voice/chat volume. The DSS wasn't out at the time.


----------



## curiousgeorgieo

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> The problem with multi-driver headphones is that you get 4 small/cheap drivers per ear instead of 1 bigger/high quality driver. as for the HPX's, I use to have that setup- I used the Mixamp because 1) Turtle Beach sells a cable specifically for HPX/Mixamp hookup and 2) it allowed me to mix voice/chat volume. The DSS wasn't out at the time.


 


  I completely agree.  I have the Tritton (wasted 200 for them when they were brand new) Ax Pros which are multi-driver "true" 5.1 headphones and the balancing was completely off and the sound separation which I assumed would be incredible were in fact hard to distinguish.  If I could possibly individually control each channel I may have had a better experience but I found 2.0 setups with dolby prologicIIx and z seemed to have far better directional accuracy in my personal experience.  For other true multi-driver options in case you have to try for yourself: Razer is coming out with a true 7.1 which might be more refined and Psycho sells an alternative as well .  Currently I use either my receiver or a DSS+Senn HD595s for my wired set-up for my version of the "best of both worlds".  Unfortunately in my optinion software mathematical calculation (against my better judgement) such as that found in a dolby headphone seems to do a better job  than true drivers.
   
  All the best guys,
   
  George


----------



## Eric_C

(I bet I'm going to regret this)
  *Just* as a..._mental exercise_...I'm wondering what cheap closed, circumaurals would be good complement to my DT 880 for gaming. Read tdockweiler's praise for the Koss DJ100 and it got me curious.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> (I bet I'm going to regret this)
> *Just* as a..._mental exercise_...I'm wondering what cheap closed, circumaurals would be good complement to my DT 880 for gaming. Read tdockweiler's praise for the Koss DJ100 and it got me curious.


 

 Maybe the KRK KNS 8400. Both of those are supra-aural I think...


----------



## SniperCzar

I'm really liking my ModMic, but it does pick up more background noise than my USB Logitech mic did. I guess that's probably just something that goes along with it being more sensitive though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

snow blind said:


> Ahh, ok, makes perfect sense now!  Ever see any mic (as are common 2.5mm size) adapters with a mute switch?  That's one important factor i'm looking for... and you did say it's quiet hooking the mic up this way, no?
> 
> As for the actual mic, I know this new "mod mic" is popular... but is it any good quality wise?  For $30 it better damn well be lol.  I've heard bad things about the Zalman ZIM-MIC1.
> 
> If using the Dolby box from the AX720's... how would one hookup their own headset and mic... the only output seems to be a unique port on the front... def. not a standard usb!




Pretty sure I say this once a week, at least: The puck on the cable splits into two pieces, revealing two 3.5mm inputs. One for audio, one for mics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Every single sub $100 headset I've used have sucked so badly, its not worth recommending anything. The cheapest I'd go with is the AX720 combo that comes with the decoder box and headset for $130. The box alone is worth the investment, and the headset isn't the worst I've heard . I'd be happy with it as a headset, if I couldn't afford the PC360.


----------



## SniperCzar

I picked up my 770 80ohms for $130 on Amazon, but it's not a headset. I had to add a ModMic but with the two together I can't see myself using anything else short of some Denons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, $10? No. Headsets are very mediocre until you hit around $200.

I'd recommend an actual headphone + external mic.


----------



## Phos

In the sub $100 headset range the Razer Carcharis might be one to look at on account of this.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





snow blind said:


> Ahh, ok, makes perfect sense now!  Ever see any mic (as are common 2.5mm size) adapters with a mute switch?  That's one important factor i'm looking for... and you did say it's quiet hooking the mic up this way, no?
> 
> As for the actual mic, I know this new "mod mic" is popular... but is it any good quality wise?  For $30 it better damn well be lol.  I've heard bad things about the Zalman ZIM-MIC1.
> 
> If using the Dolby box from the AX720's... how would one hookup their own headset and mic... the only output seems to be a unique port on the front... def. not a standard usb!


 

 Intec used to make a headset adapter for 3rd party or cell phone headsets that plugged into the controller. It was basically the puck from the old xbox360 headset but instead of a wire it had a 2.5mm jack. It has a mute switch and a volume dial. I have one of these that I bought on clearance from Fry's years ago and it has been discontinued for just as long, which sucks because they were the only ones that made that. Build quality is passable but it would sometimes inject static into the voice channel but replugging the adapter would fix it. I just ended up not bothering using it. I checked ebay and I saw one guy selling one if you're interested.
   
  As for mics, I've had okay but not a stellar experience with the zalman. As for the mic I'm using, I have no idea what it is because I found it in a big pile of cables from a guy at a swap meet. It's working fine but I'm thinking about trying to find like different mics for stuff like pocket recorders.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Maybe the KRK KNS 8400. Both of those are supra-aural I think...


 


  Unfortunately that retails for the equivalent of US$230 where I live.


----------



## darren i

[size=9pt]Hi all[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]First off, I’m new here – just wanted to say the advice on this site is fantastic and makes great reading, thanks to everyone. [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Basically, I’m looking for headphones mainly for console gaming, movies, and some music (mainly rock/electronic/some classical). I’ve got a mixamp on order and I’m looking for headphones around about £150 ($200). As far as gaming is concerned, I mainly play single player games so whilst I’m looking for good positional accuracy I’d rather go for ‘phones that immerse you in the game with plenty of bass rather than allowing you to pick out every detail.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]So far, from all the advice here I think I’m better off with headphones rather than a headset. Also, open-backed ‘phones seem better for the immersive experience I’m after (sound leakage is not a problem). I think I’ve narrowed things down to:[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Beyer DT990 600 ohm / DT990 250 ohm[/size]
  [size=9pt]Beyer DT770 80 Pro[/size]
  [size=9pt]Sennheiser 558[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Anyone recommend which of these would give me a ‘wow’ factor? I’ve never owned audiophile headphones before so will probably be easily impressed![/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Also, can those headphones be driven by the mixamp – or do I need to add an amp such as an E9 – especially for the DT990 600s?[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]And apologies for asking questions that have undoubtedly been asked many times before but there’s just so many opinions and reviews it’s easy to get lost! [/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Thanks for any help.[/size]
   
  [size=9pt]Darren[/size]


----------



## Snow Blind

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure I say this once a week, at least: The puck on the cable splits into two pieces, revealing two 3.5mm inputs. One for audio, one for mics.


 


  Yeah, I totally didn't even think of that... doh.  Well I found a new Turtle Beach DX11 set at best buy for $79 so I snagged that.  The X11 headset is not bad at all, i was surprised!  Loads more detailed than the ax720.  The 720 sounds awfully bloat in the lower regions. 
   
  Im using the DSS with the wired in-line control switch/dual 3.5 jack from an AX180 along with the mic from it on an adapter.  Sounds fantastic!  The most fun cans of mine to use with the DSS so far are also my cheapest... the Pany HTF600 are super fun with with Mass Effect 3!  The opening "tutorial" portion of the game when the reaper ships are attacking earth was fn' epic!


----------



## our martin

does anyone know if there is any new survival horror games scheduled for release on the wii..i hope they do a remake of silent hill 2 because they did shattered memories which was quite good but not a patch on the first one on the playstation..in my opinion survival horror games are the best games on the wii so a few more would be nice.. everthing else on the wii is just for kids!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darren i said:


> [size=9pt]Basically, I’m looking for headphones mainly for console gaming, movies, and some music (mainly rock/electronic/some classical). I’ve got a Mix-amp on order and I’m looking for headphones around about £150 ($200). As far as gaming is concerned, I mainly play single player games so whilst I’m looking for good positional accuracy I’d rather go for ‘phones that immerse you in the game with plenty of bass rather than allowing you to pick out every detail.[/size]
> [size=9pt]So far, from all the advice here I think I’m better off with headphones rather than a headset. Also, open-backed ‘phones seem better for the immersive experience I’m after (sound leakage is not a problem). I think I’ve narrowed things down to:[/size]
> [size=9pt]Beyer DT990 600 ohm / DT990 250 ohm[/size]
> [size=9pt]Beyer DT770 80 Pro[/size]
> ...


 
  I own 3 out of the 4 head phones you have listed.
  Open headphone are better for long term listening as they (At least for my 47 year old ears) put less wear and tear on the ear drums.
  The DT770 Pro 80-Ohm and Senn HD558 will be the easiest to drive with the Mix-Amp.
  The DT990 600-Ohm might be a little too much for the Mix-Amp, so the E9 would be needed.
  The DT990 Pro 250-Ohm would have more Bass & Treble then the DT770 & HD558.
  DT990 are like "Give me the movie theater sound"
  I would recommend going with the Sennheiser HD558.
  The Sennheiser HD-558 would easily work with the Mix-Amp and is an open headphone.


----------



## darren i

Thanks for the reply PurpleAngel, the 558s may be the best way to go for me then. I know the bass won't be as pronounced as the Beyer's but do you think the 558s work well for games and films?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darren i said:


> Thanks for the reply PurpleAngel, the 558s may be the best way to go for me then. I know the bass won't be as pronounced as the Beyer's but do you think the 558s work well for games and films?


 
  I use the HD558s for both music and movies (well more TV movies), I use the DT990 Pro 250-ohm for DVD/Blu-ray movies and my Yamaha RX-V671 receiver powers the DT990 just fine, have not gamed in 8 years, but have over a dozen unopened PC games.
  The HD558 may seem more analytical then warm to some, but they really do not have any weaknesses.
  And they do not need as good an amplifier as 250-Ohm or 600-Ohm headphones (which they need to sound their best).
  As I said before the DT990 have a great theater sound, but their bass & treble might over shadow the vocals for some (like normal TV stuff).


----------



## Fa11ou7

I felt the need to post my non audiophile impressions of my refurb Turtle Beach PX5 that I have had for a few days. I still have a lot of learning to do with the whole system since I haven't been using the wireless PX5 phones much. I was really fortunate to have found them for $138 total on amazon and they came in pretty much perfect condition (still smell new =D). I actually haven't had the chance to play any FPS games since I was in the middle of finishing up Alan Wake when they arrived about a week earlier than I was expecting. When they came I pulled everything out and set them up with the optical out on my PC (motherboard audio) and started playing away. 
   
  The PX5 amp is AMAZING!! the PX5 headphones sound great and the presets are a neat feature. Just for fun I plugged my Sennheiser HD 435s into the headphone out plug on the amp and HOLY COW they sound incredible. I had played a couple of hours of Alan Wake before I realized that I hadn't even turned on the Dolby surround it just sounded so good and even had great positioning in stereo. The 435s sound much... richer? I think it is because they are open compared to the closed PX5 phones, maybe it has something to do with break in but that is beyond me. 
   
  The PX5 is pretty comfortable if a little snug on the jawline if I don't position them right, but it is nice to not have them pushing on my ears like my 435's. The only other problem is that I have astigmatism that I've been correcting with glasses which are very uncomfortable with any headset. I have been pushing my glasses up at an angle so that they sit on top of the cushions but I think it is time for contacts. 
   
  Any ideas how to break in a wireless headset without going through 100 AA batteries? I used to have a pink noise .flac somewhere.


----------



## SniperCzar

Old PC power supply and some alligator clips is how I'd do it.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





fa11ou7 said:


> Any ideas how to break in a wireless headset without going through 100 AA batteries? I used to have a pink noise .flac somewhere.


 

  
  I thought you said the PX5 sounded amazing? Don't worry about break/burn in for them. If they sound good already, just enjoy them whenever you use them.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


 

 Interesting to see the fun rating fairly high on the 770's and 990's. I've owned the 770's for some time and don't particularly care for them w/ music. Too colored. The 580's while smooth, still sound a bit boring. Looking @ the Q701's or Denon D2000's to double for gaming either home or LAN.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find them fun BECAUSE they're colored, lol. Big bass adds to fun. 

I would say a good tradeoff between fun and balanced is definitely the Q701. Its fun when it needs to be.


----------



## xZOAZAx

Hi I'm new to this forums so my apologies if i make a nub mistake.  But anyhow, my preference in gaming headphone/set is a clear detail in footsteps, knife swings, etc for fps games like mw3.  Which headphones/sets would be great for those on the xbox 360?  Money isnt an issue for me, I just want to know which headphone will do that best.  Also i've heard about the hd598/dss combo.  would that be all you need for a headphone?  And what is your preference for fps gaming?


----------



## weez82

Quote: 





xzoazax said:


> Hi I'm new to this forums so my apologies if i make a nub mistake.  But anyhow, my preference in gaming headphone/set is a clear detail in footsteps, knife swings, etc for fps games like mw3.  Which headphones/sets would be great for those on the xbox 360?  Money isnt an issue for me, I just want to know which headphone will do that best.  Also i've heard about the hd598/dss combo.  would that be all you need for a headphone?  And what is your preference for fps gaming?


 


  did you not read the first page? Your question is already answered there. It is also answered a few pages back. Have a read through this thread (not all of it but some of it)


----------



## darren i

Hi xZOAZAx, I'm new here too - there's a lot to take in isn't there!! From what I've learned so far it sounds like you need to steer away from headphones with lots of bass so you can pick out the fine details. MLE has lots of recommendations on page 1 such as the AD700s and the PC360s - they're bass light and high on detail. The HD598s may have a bit more bass than you're looking for from what I've read so far - I'm considering those as I want something of a more cinematic experience.
   
  Have you considered the mixamp instead of the dss? It seems to get good reviews for its location abilities using its dolby headphone processing.
   
  Good luck!


----------



## xZOAZAx

So the pc360 and ad700 would be better for sound whoring correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xzoazax said:


> So the pc360 and ad700 would be better for sound whoring correct?


 
  My Audio Technica ATH-AD700s are so light bass that I do not use them anymore.
  Because everything i listen to sounds better with at least decent bass (or full bass).


----------



## pdiddypdler

xzoazax said:


> So the pc360 and ad700 would be better for sound whoring correct?




Yes, the ad700 is the best headphone when it comes to soundwhoring but the reason it is so good is also the reason a lot of people don't like the headphones for music or the 'fun factor' in games. They can't really be considered a great all rounder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

darren i said:


> Hi xZOAZAx, I'm new here too - there's a lot to take in isn't there!! From what I've learned so far it sounds like you need to steer away from headphones with lots of bass so you can pick out the fine details. MLE has lots of recommendations on page 1 such as the AD700s and the PC360s - they're bass light and high on detail. The HD598s may have a bit more bass than you're looking for from what I've read so far - I'm considering those as I want something of a more cinematic experience.
> 
> Have you considered the mixamp instead of the dss? It seems to get good reviews for its location abilities using its dolby headphone processing.
> 
> Good luck!




The 598 too much bass? Where did you hear this? The HD598 is not much of a difference from the PC360 itself, aside from more mids, and refinement overall. The bass is anything but heavy.

The HD598 isn't anywhere near my first choice for a cinematic experience. The bass is considerably lacking for that.


----------



## Drastion

Can anyone give me a good idea on how to test a headphones dolby headphone and competative gaming ability?

I love my new headphones but want a good way to test them before I recomend them to anyone. Mass effect 2 seems to be the best for testing positioning ability. More trying to figure out the sound whore aspect. I was thinking just running a bass test tone into the aux jack to see how it would muffle details.

Other problem is I don't listen at very high levels so my very bassy headphones don't sound bassy at all. That is unless I crank up the volune to max and set to bass boost to high. Using the jocker track posted hear sounds like two subs strapped to my head for sure. Not sure what volume level people play at so my low levels might be a lot different than others.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For new games, Mass Effect 3 has jaw droppingly perfect positional cues for Dolby Headphone. You can literally just walk around the Citadel and hear people talk, rotate yourself around and be able to hear exactly where they are speaking from. The game was just mixed extremely well. Both the Q701 and D7000 sound amazing, and I'm sure even headphones with a smallish soundstage can still sound good with this game.

As for soundwhoring, it's not like one headphone will automatically reveal details you couldn't hear in cheaper headphones. That to me, is pretty much pure Head-fi hyperbole. Frequencies don't just begin to exist from one headphone to another. Unless a headphone is REALLY bad, what you hear in a decent headphone will be heard in another decent headphone. The balance in the frequency may make one headphone amplify how loud certain sounds will be, but it's all gonna be there for the most part. The term soundwhoring is more of a "This headphone will amplify the weaker sounds, so you can more easily hear the typically less audible noises, which may help you in a game." The K701 was god mode to me because of the combination of analytical sound signature, huge soundstage, and perfect positional accuracy with Dolby headphone, IMHO.

The K701 and AD700 are so good for soundwhoring because they focus a lot on sounds that are usually drowned out/veiled/weakened typicially by bass in other headphones... these sounds are still potentially audible in other headphones, but you are instinctively going to focus on what's more prominent. Good exceptions to this are the DT990 and D7000, because the bass is either very quick (doesn't envelop the lesser frequencies), or in the case of the D7000 especially, the bass sounds detached from everything else, even with how strong it is. That being said, less focus on bass is just better for competitive gaming, no matter how good/detached the bass is.

Any MW3 players should take note: the sounds in MW3 aren't as well presented in this game compared to the older CoD games, so soundwhoring really isn't gonna help you out in this game like it did in CoD4, MW2, and BLOPS (with Ninja pro).

Also, the Bad Company, Battlefield 3 players should understand that these games may have stellar sound quality, but don't do much in the way of actual HELPFUL positional cues.

I've said it countless times: Dolby Headphone is a proven tech. However, it's either well or poorly presented depending on the game. Some games have terrible positional cues, some have amazing cues, etc.


----------



## Drastion

MLE

Thanks for the great explination. So its not that they are more detailed. They just don't hide the really quiet bits with any bass.

So what are those small bits are they really important to hear like footsteps. Or is it simply that when its competative any small advantage is worth the loss in base.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's dependent on how you wanna enjoy the game. A complete lack of bass may help you out a little more, but you can't base skill purely on your ability to hear subtle noises. 

Honestly, a bass light headphone isn't necessary to kick ass competitively. I recommend a well balanced headphone. They don't have to be lacking in bass. The DT880 and Q701 are good examples of headphones with bass that still has great detail in everything else.

A bass heavy headphone is more enjoyable for non-competitive purposes. However. just because it's bassy doesn't mean they wouldn't do well competitively, hence why the D7000 and DT990 are two headphones I don't have issues with online.

If you find yourself playing online competitively a lot more than by yourself and non-comptitively, the I'd say get a well balanced headphone.

If you're like me, who plays mostly offline, then a bassy headphone would be my first recommendation.

If you can afford one balanced, one bassy, then you have all your bases covered.


----------



## Drastion

I have never been much of an online player at all. Reading discussions about being polite and friendly. People would just say they are all into winning and if swearing and being racist would give them any kind of psychological advantage they would use it no problem. Loved playing lans back in the day with friends. Always fun to talking crap with your friends and cracking jokes.

Got myself a akg q701 and a m audio q40 a cheep fun set for on the go. Plan on getting a dennon once I get all my stuff together to justify the cost.


----------



## darren i

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 598 too much bass? Where did you hear this? The HD598 is not much of a difference from the PC360 itself, aside from more mids, and refinement overall. The bass is anything but heavy.
> The HD598 isn't anywhere near my first choice for a cinematic experience. The bass is considerably lacking for that.


 

 Yes, the more I read about the 598s the more I realised they wouldn't have as much bass as I wanted. I'm now thinking of the AHD2000, HD600s, or maybe the DT880/DT990s. Decisions, decisions!! I may go for the D2000s as they sound a bit easier to drive straight from a mixamp. Unless I get an E9 for the other phones. Hmmm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That'd be what I'd get if I were in your situation, had I not owned the D7000.


----------



## iSkullz

Hey MLE and fellow gamers,
   
  I will receive my DT990 pros 250 ohms today and in your opinion I want to know what the perfect volume combination is for you.
   
  Here is my setup:
  Astro Mixamp 5.8 Main volume is at 12 O' clock position and the small knob is on maximum on the game side.
  Fiio E9 amp has the gain knob in the down position, and I usually play with the volume knob around 11 or 12 O' clock position.
  Headphones I use: Fischer Audio FA-011 and the KNS 6400
   
  Side note: I mainly play MW3 online.
   
  With the DT990 pros coming in today, I want some pwning sound whoring ability even though the sound in MW3 is not as good.
   
  Finally, what volume settings would you recommend?
   
  Thanks and post away guys...


----------



## Eric_C

Hey all, just want to update on ME3 + MixAmp Pro (pre-2010) + DT880 (250, 2005 ver.)--pretty darned good on multiplayer. 
  Main dial is on 1 o'clock, chat mix dial is on 12-1 o'clock, everything seems clear enough for me.
   
  It doesn't sound like there's any footstep noise in the multiplayer though. Can anyone confirm?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't touched ME's multiplayer, but I don't think there are any footsteps outside of your own.

iSkullz, I dunno. I like it moderately loud-ish. Hell, right now, I'm playing ME3 with the Q701, Mixamp alone. I have the Mixamp fully maxed out in volume with the game/voice fully on game. It really depends on the game. Some games, I only need it at about 70%. I guess ME3 is just not that loud (playing on PS3).

As for when i DO use the E9, I tend to put it on High Gain (up position), because low gain has the E9's volume knob very heavily on the right side. The E9's optimal position is between 9-12, which is usually done with high gain. I fully max (or near max the Mixamp), and control the volume with the E9. I haven't had to do it lately, since I don't have a mic atm.


----------



## darren i

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That'd be what I'd get if I were in your situation, had I not owned the D7000.


 


 Thanks MLE. Nice to know I'm on the right track!


----------



## Rebel975

MLE: The multiplayer is extremely fun, BTW. It ties into the single player pretty well too.
   
  You are right though- ME3 is an awesome game for DH.


----------



## iSkullz

Got the DT990 pro today...
   
  First impression: this package feels light, I hope they didn't send me the wrong thing. Grab a knife to carefully open the box and beneath the protective cushion lies the white box.
   
  I get it out of the box and bloody hell is this thing light and the velor or velvet ear pads? Boy does this thing feel smooth. Whatever material was used feels good.
   
  I quickly plug it to my E9 and play some quick tunes, not too bad, now off to play MW3 and see how these bad boys hold up. After getting into a game I was able to tell where enemies were coming from with ease and tubing from.
   
  Directional cues are great with these headphones.
   
  Back to pwning...
   
  Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, big thanks to MLE and everyone.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





darren i said:


> Yes, the more I read about the 598s the more I realised they wouldn't have as much bass as I wanted. I'm now thinking of the AHD2000, HD600s, or maybe the DT880/DT990s. Decisions, decisions!! I may go for the D2000s as they sound a bit easier to drive straight from a mixamp. Unless I get an E9 for the other phones. Hmmm.


 


  I have the DT 990 pro and run them with a Fiio E6. Works just great for me! 
  Bass is not a problem for sound whoring at all (MW3) and it makes movies even more cinematic. I really can´t comment on the D2000s (maybe they are the better choice for you) but I wouldn´t shy away from the 990 pro just because of the bass or because they are harder to drive. Fiio E6 will do the job.


----------



## darren i

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I have the DT 990 pro and run them with a Fiio E6. Works just great for me!
> Bass is not a problem for sound whoring at all (MW3) and it makes movies even more cinematic. I really can´t comment on the D2000s (maybe they are the better choice for you) but I wouldn´t shy away from the 990 pro just because of the bass or because they are harder to drive. Fiio E6 will do the job.


 

 Thanks l00l, that's something to think about if they're that easy to drive. I'm a noob to all of this so every bit of new info changes my mind completely


----------



## cpagdog

PLEASE HELP!  I have been reviewing headphones for the last 2 months and I can not decide what to buy!  I live somewhere where trying these high end headphones is out of the questions.  I have read over almost all the threads here and I figured I'd ask some questions.  I read over nameless's post about pc audio and also I have read mad lust's gaming headphone post. (both are must reads by the way)
   
  I know most of the questions have been asked before, but here we go...
   
  I want to buy these headphones primarily for gaming (battlefiled 3, tom clancy games, and other shooters).
  I also will occasionaly watch movies with them, when the wife is trying to sleep!
   
  I have narrowed it down to a couple headphones.  The AD700 and the q701, but I am torn.  Are the q's that much better to be almost 3x the price? 
   
  What do  I need to drive these headphones?  I have a x58 motherboard setup with sli graphics cards.  All i have is the onboard realtek 7.1 audio.  I know the Q's need amp/dac and the AD700 benefit from one, but what do i buy?  Do I buy a internal card like asus or get a fiio e7 or higher?  I almost purchased the ad700 with asus xonar dg but I do not want the xonar dg because its pci only and all the new motherboards are dropping pci.  I know there is the asus stx but 200 for a card and 300ish for headphones?  steep for gaming, huh?
   
  Please help!  I am also open to any other suggestions!
   
  Thanks guys and gals!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> PLEASE HELP!  I have been reviewing headphones for the last 2 months and I can not decide what to buy!  I live somewhere where trying these high end headphones is out of the questions.  I have read over almost all the threads here and I figured I'd ask some questions.  I read over nameless's post about PC audio and also I have read mad lust's gaming headphone post. (both are must reads by the way)
> I know most of the questions have been asked before, but here we go...
> I want to buy these headphones primarily for gaming (Battlefiled 3, Tom Clancy games, and other shooters).
> I also will occasionaly watch movies with them, when the wife is trying to sleep!
> ...


 
  Motherboards are still coming with PCI slots. By the time they stop putting PCI slots on motherboards,
  you would have replaced any sound card you bought today for something newer.
   
  Sennheiser HD558 (more bass then the ATH-AD700s)
  Asus Xonar DG.


----------



## cpagdog

the majority of the x79 boards are not including pci slots...


----------



## Eric_C

Are you going to be watching movies right next to your wife, while she's sleeping? Because those are open headphones and they will leak sound--how much will be a question that others will have to answer, I don't have firsthand experience with those models.


----------



## cpagdog

no not right next to the wife...i live in a townhouse and the computer/tv is in the loft on the 4th floor bedrooms on the third...so some audio is acceptable


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> The majority of the x79 boards are not including pci slots...


 
  By the time he is ready to replace his current motherboard, there will be lots of new (and better) sound card to choose from.
  If not the Xonar DG ($30), then how about a used Xonar DX ($50) PCI-E.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> no not right next to the wife...i live in a townhouse and the computer/tv is in the loft on the 4th floor bedrooms on the third...so some audio is acceptable


 


  Oh. Pfft then the headphones can be as open as you want.


----------



## cpagdog

the dx doesn't have headphone amplification does it?


----------



## SniperCzar

ME3 multiplayer with positional audio is actually really useful. I like knowing when and where the Phantoms are spawning before they sneak up behind me and impale me with swords. Side note - Geth Plasma Shotgun is pure pwnage. Any of you guys play on PC?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm still waiting on the Geth Shotgun in the campaign. That thing was just vicious in Mass Effect 2. Sniping with a shotgun? Yes please. I haven't touched any shottys in ME3, though the Krogan one that has really long range seems pretty good just from testing it. I don't find shotguns useful, because anything close enough for shotguns, is too damn close. I feel the Mattock has been nerfed quite a bit, as well as the Vindicator. Two of my older faves.

The Assault rifle you get from beating the DLC seems a bit overpowered, even on Hardcore.


----------



## darren i

Hi all
   
  I've been reading good things abouth the HD650s - anyone tried them with a mixamp for games/movies?  They're high impedance though - would I need to add something like an E9 amp to drive them better?
   
  Thanks


----------



## benbizz

Does anyone have any experience with the AKG K-240 (not MKII)? I'm looking to pick up a good all rounder for less then 200 USD. I'm not worried about competition as much as I am about fun and I like to listen to a plethora of music, from harder rock to hip hop and and trance.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm still waiting on the Geth Shotgun in the campaign. That thing was just vicious in Mass Effect 2. Sniping with a shotgun? Yes please. I haven't touched any shottys in ME3, though the Krogan one that has really long range seems pretty good just from testing it. I don't find shotguns useful, because anything close enough for shotguns, is too damn close. I feel the Mattock has been nerfed quite a bit, as well as the Vindicator. Two of my older faves.
> The Assault rifle you get from beating the DLC seems a bit overpowered, even on Hardcore.


 
   
  I'm already to level 3 upgrade on the Plasma shotty and I've already got the aiming down to the point where I can one-shot a Guardian in the slit from across the entire map. Even on silver challenge I use it more than my Mantis IX which is kind of sad. Another epic combo is the Revenant with a maxed stability dampener and scope, it's like the Plasma rifle only better.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





darren i said:


> Hi all
> 
> I've been reading good things abouth the HD650s - anyone tried them with a mixamp for games/movies?  They're high impedance though - would I need to add something like an E9 amp to drive them better?
> 
> Thanks


 

 They're pretty good with movies and games but if your looking for a headphone which is just for those things you might be better off with something else.
   
  They can benefit from an amp as many sound cards and headphone jacks won't give enough volume.  Something like the E9 or Objective2 would be good for the HD650s.


----------



## darren i

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> They're pretty good with movies and games but if your looking for a headphone which is just for those things you might be better off with something else.
> 
> They can benefit from an amp as many sound cards and headphone jacks won't give enough volume.  Something like the E9 or Objective2 would be good for the HD650s.


 

 Thanks maverickronin, I'm looking primarily for games and films but wanted something of an all rounder that will last me a few years. I was looking at those or the D2000s as they're about the same price in the UK at the moment. I got my mixamp today and hooked it up with my very old, extremely non-audiophile headphones and I'm quite impressed - I'm looking forward to hearing it with some decent cans!
   
  What do you consider better just for games/films?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> PLEASE HELP!  I have been reviewing headphones for the last 2 months and I can not decide what to buy!  I live somewhere where trying these high end headphones is out of the questions.  I have read over almost all the threads here and I figured I'd ask some questions.  I read over nameless's post about pc audio and also I have read mad lust's gaming headphone post. (both are must reads by the way)
> 
> I know most of the questions have been asked before, but here we go...
> 
> ...


 


 I can't speak on the q701 as I've never heard it but I wouldn't be happy watching movies with the AD700s, they're just too thin and weak sounding for that.  The ADs are great for positional cues and soundstage but sound like tin cans imo when trying to reproduce bass freq as they seriously lack impact and warmth.  Personally, I don't even like them for gaming, I prefer a more "fun" sounding headphone.  Anyway, I think that's something you should consider if you're going to use them for movies often.


----------



## cpagdog

thats what i keep hearing...Hmmm decisions decisions.  What about the dt880 pro?  I found a local store that has a pair in stock.  Again i'm looking for gaming and movie watching purposes....amp requirment for those?
   
  Thanks again for all th help!
   
  EDIT!  or the same store also has a piar of dt770 in 80 ohms?  thoughts


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





darren i said:


> Thanks maverickronin, I'm looking primarily for games and films but wanted something of an all rounder that will last me a few years. I was looking at those or the D2000s as they're about the same price in the UK at the moment. I got my mixamp today and hooked it up with my very old, extremely non-audiophile headphones and I'm quite impressed - I'm looking forward to hearing it with some decent cans!
> 
> What do you consider better just for games/films?


 

 The Beyerdynamic DT990s will give you a bigger soundstage with more "3D" sounding spatial cues and some extra bass will add to the immersion too.  Any version of those will probably benefit from an amp though.
   
  The D2000s aren't as "3D" as the Beyers but they have plenty of bass, go deeper than the DT990 or HD650 and should be fine from your mixamp.
   
  I found both of those to be have pretty fatiguing treble but many other people aren't bothered by it at all so it depends on your preferences.
   
  The HD650s are smooth, detailed, and relaxed.  IMO they don't really excel at anything but they don't do anything badly because they don't have any glaring weakness either.  I think that they're more of an all-rounder.
   
  The D2000 or DT990 will likely pull you into the game or movie a bit more than the HD650 and games and movies will probably mask the D2000's and DT990's weaknesses (to those people who think the treble is a weakness anyway) since in games in movies the focus isn't always on the music.


----------



## darren i

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The Beyerdynamic DT990s will give you a bigger soundstage with more "3D" sounding spatial cues and some extra bass will add to the immersion too.  Any version of those will probably benefit from an amp though.
> 
> The D2000s aren't as "3D" as the Beyers but they have plenty of bass, go deeper than the DT990 or HD650 and should be fine from your mixamp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the great feedback. Sounds like there's pros and cons with all the headphones I'm looking at! It's a good job half the fun of buying anything audio-visual is the research


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





benbizz said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the AKG K-240 (not MKII)? I'm looking to pick up a good all rounder for less then 200 USD. I'm not worried about competition as much as I am about fun and I like to listen to a plethora of music, from harder rock to hip hop and and trance.


 


  I used to own AKG K240 S.  They're fairly balanced, maybe a little emphasis in bass.  They're soundstage is only medium sized though.  And I personally don't like the smaller pleather pads on them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> That's what i keep hearing...Hmmm decisions decisions.  What about the dt880 pro?  I found a local store that has a pair in stock.  Again I'm looking for gaming and movie watching purposes....amp requirement for those?
> Thanks again for all the help!
> EDIT!  or the same store also has a pair of dt770 in 80 ohms?  thoughts


 

 Nice thing with the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm is they will work from more sources the DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.


----------



## Eric_C

In case anyone's curious about the HFI-580: just got a pair secondhand, and am putting them through the paces on Mass Effect 3 (Xbox) with a MixAmp Pro. At the moment the clamp is tight but bearable, and on occasion the bass gets ridiculously loud that I have to reach for the volume knob--something that never happened with the DT 880. 
   
  Only using them on single player at the moment, probably won't get round to any multiplayer until the weekend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Using the D7000 on Mass Effect 3 when you're in the club.... Jesus.... I know they're trying to mimic the sound of you being in the club, but the bass is so ridiculously prominent, it hurts to use headphones at that point, even the Q701 has so much bass bloat...

Not a problem with the headphones, just, they overdid it on the bass there.


----------



## Eric_C

...and I'm reminded why I don't go to clubs.


----------



## rabinzero

Just ordered the DSS2 to use with my Q701's.  I've been using the 5.1 AX720 Tritton decoder box and have been very happy with it minus the hiss when it's quieter.  I'm anxious to try out the DSS2 and the sound angles.  Mostly 3 and 6 and possibly boosting the bass a little.  I'll try and remember to post my thoughts once I've used it for a couple days.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *cpagdog* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> What about the dt880 pro?  I found a local store that has a pair in stock...dt770 in 80 ohms?  thoughts


 
   
  What local store?
   
  I can rank the DT770 250 Ohm below the HD580, and well below the Q701 in terms of accuracy, clarity, and soundstage. Those are the most important factors for me. I like to be able to hear ALL of the sound EQUALLY. The 770's toss the bass around too much and have a smaller stage that squishifies too much. HD580's too laid back if I want to be engaged, which is 75% of the time. Q701's are on...all the time. The stage is enormous and I'm immersed more so on these than the other too by far. Not to mention I'm probably only on hour 12 or so.
    
   
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I find them fun BECAUSE they're colored, lol. Big bass adds to fun.
> I would say a good tradeoff between fun and balanced is definitely the Q701. Its fun when it needs to be.


 

 Completely disagree, lol! It frustrates me.  Friend of mine LOVES his 990 though. Bass go boom! he says. 
   
  Balanced is fun for me and I'm in nirvana w/ these things right now. Headband feels a bit too tight and grip may need loosening. But I like the sound, the look, the 2 cables...it's more than I'd hoped for. Now I just need to close firefox and...


----------



## pdiddypdler

Got my modmic in the mail yesterday. At first I didn't think it would fit around the massive ad700 earcups from where I positioned it but it seems fine.
  I'll get back to you in a few days giving my thoughts on the mic quality.


----------



## Dualhammers

I am hoping you all can help me out.  I recently inherited a Presonus Central Station and a set of DT770 80 Pro cans from a friend.  They are pretty rad, but I am using the TOS Link on my Rampage III to provide the signal and it doesn't have any positioning solutions like DH or CMSS-3d.  Combined with the fact that the DT770 80 pros are suppose to be kind of bassy I am thinking about alternative solutions.

 Specifically I want a setup that has the most useful features - CMSS-3D, DH, DD - but also sounds great.  I was thinking about the PC360s or the K701s with the Astro mixamp but I am not sure which soundcard to get.  I know I need one with Dolby Digital Live, but I also want CMSS-3D inacse I like that, and also good quality sound for music (I prefer FLAC over MP3) and movies.

 Would the Astros from a better soundcard be powerful enough for the k701s?  Could I go from the mixamp (for the DH decoding) to my presonus to add extra power?  Is the presonus better or worse than the amp/dac on something like a Xonar Essence or Azuen Forte?


----------



## cpagdog

The store is a guitar center about an hour away. I hate to buy something I can't try first and the only high end they have in store are dt880 pro and dt770 pro 80 ohm. Are the q701 that good that I should try them based on reviews? Again primary purpose is FPS games and movies.


----------



## rabinzero

Quote:


cpagdog said:


> The store is a guitar center about an hour away. I hate to buy something I can't try first and the only high end they have in store are dt880 pro and dt770 pro 80 ohm. Are the q701 that good that I should try them based on reviews? Again primary purpose is FPS games and movies.


 


  
  I bought the Q701's solely based on reviews here and haven't been happier.  I use to be a big Sennheiser fan, but the past few headphones disappointed me.  Then I got a pair of Denon's which I use only for music now because the bass is a bit heavy.  With the Q701's I get pure accuracy and sound wh*ring in FPS is a freakin beast!  I run SitRep Pro in MW3 and I'm pretty sure people think I'm cheating.  Lol.


----------



## Phos

dualhammers said:


> I am hoping you all can help me out.  I recently inherited a Presonus Central Station and a set of DT770 80 Pro cans from a friend.  They are pretty rad, but I am using the TOS Link on my Rampage III to provide the signal and it doesn't have any positioning solutions like DH or CMSS-3d.  Combined with the fact that the DT770 80 pros are suppose to be kind of bassy I am thinking about alternative solutions.
> 
> Specifically I want a setup that has the most useful features - CMSS-3D, DH, DD - but also sounds great.  I was thinking about the PC360s or the K701s with the Astro mixamp but I am not sure which soundcard to get.  I know I need one with Dolby Digital Live, but I also want CMSS-3D inacse I like that, and also good quality sound for music (I prefer FLAC over MP3) and movies.
> 
> Would the Astros from a better soundcard be powerful enough for the k701s?  Could I go from the mixamp (for the DH decoding) to my presonus to add extra power?  Is the presonus better or worse than the amp/dac on something like a Xonar Essence or Azuen Forte?



The Astro mixamp isn't really a PC thing, on a PC you could go with a soundcard hooked up via toslink. There's a link in the first post to another thread more focused on this kind of thing which links to comparisions between Dolby headphone and CMSS.


----------



## Eric_C

Dualhammers: you probably want to check out the PC gaming thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound


----------



## AxelCloris

DualHammers,
   
  My Astro Mixamp Pro that I picked up from a fellow head-fier arrived today. I agree with Eric_C, you may want to check Nameless's thread. I'll be using mine with the PC primarily via toslink out, and I'll probably post some findings there after I've had a chance to play around with it some. Still 30 minutes left at work before I can get home to my new toy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

While you're at it, check out these videos recorded with CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone. They'll give you a good idea of what to expect.
   
  Since the Presonus Central Station is also a DAC, I'd suggest picking up an X-Fi Titanium used or refurbished on the cheap. (Unfortunately, Newegg went up to $75 from $45, so I can't recommend them right now.) Then connect it via S/PDIF, and you'll be using the Presonus Central Station as DAC and amp while the sound card serves as a cheap DSP for binaural surround processing (and EAX, if any of your games use it).
   
  Oh, and avoid the XtremeAudio cards at all costs!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not home right now. Nameless, I can just listen to them as is? I wanna hear CMSS.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





pdiddypdler said:


> Got my modmic in the mail yesterday.


 
   
  What's a modmic?
   
  Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> Are the q701 that good that I should try them based on reviews? Again primary purpose is FPS games and movies.


 

 I did and I'm very happy with them. The soundstage's much wider than the 770's and it really helps to pinpoint where shots are coming from in Battlefield 3. Skip the 770's unless you need a cheaper closed pair. I don't know about the 880's. :/
    
  Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rabinzero* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> With the Q701's I get pure accuracy and sound wh*ring in FPS is a freakin beast!  I run SitRep Pro in MW3 and I'm pretty sure people think I'm cheating.  Lol.


 
   
  They definitely sound much closer to my Rokit's than the HD580's. Even w/ the addition of a tube amp, the Sennheiser's lack clarity to my ears. Battlefield 3's more fun too. 
   
  What's SitRep Pro?


----------



## pdiddypdler

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> What's a modmic?


 


http://www.modmic.com/
   
  Basically a cool mic that turns any headphone into a headset.


----------



## iEnzo

Alright after reading the thread I have chosen 2 gaming headsets and need some assistance before purchasing one.
   
  1. Sennheiser PC 360 G4ME
  2. Sennheiser HD 598
   
  I can't decide which to get at the moment. I do everything with my PC from gaming to music & movies. Not having the mic with the HD 598 is a pain but I could purchase a blue mic/clip on. I don't have a decent sound card at the moment.
   
  Choices right now:
  Steelseries USB
  http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-7h-usb
   
  Internal speaker
  Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
 - Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
*Audio Feature :*
 - Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound
 - Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection 
 - DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC 
 - Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
   
  Regarding PC sound cards unsure but which would work better for Gaming, Music & Movies. Choices are Asus & Creative. I'm leaning towards Asus Xonar STX Essence. Some say the ST is newer but is running on PCI. Also they say Creative cards are better for gaming as it supports EAX or something of that sort.
   
  Thanks for your assistance. So I may find peace with my favorite


----------



## pdiddypdler

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> What's SitRep Pro?


 


  A perk in MW3 that makes enemy footsteps louder.


----------



## pdiddypdler

Quote: 





ienzo said:


> Alright after reading the thread I have chosen 2 gaming headsets and need some assistance before purchasing one.
> 
> 1. Sennheiser PC 360 G4ME
> 2. Sennheiser HD 598
> ...


 

 HD598 + Modmic + STX = Win


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So lately, looks like I'm subconsciously reaching for the Q701 quite a few times over the D7000. Just that comfort of open design + velours... two things that the Denons lack.

God bless velour pads. I really need to find some velour 'skin' for my D7000 pads... :rolleyes:

Even laying down, despite both of them having ridiculously large cups, I can use the Q701s without any comfort issues. The same can't be said about the D7000, which is impossible to lay down comfortably with without breaking the seal.


----------



## SemperMalum

By the way, the V-Moda LP2 are fantastic with gaming.
   
  And I got a new headset that I'd like to recommend:
  Plantronics GameCon 780. It's a simulated 7.1 - Has a crappy mic, IMO, but it's clear. I just don't think it's... hollowish.
   
  And oh my god the comfort. I think these are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. Seriously.


----------



## Phos

mad lust envy said:


> So lately, looks like I'm subconsciously reaching for the Q701 quite a few times over the D7000. Just that comfort of open design + velours... two things that the Denons lack.
> God bless velour pads. I really need to find some velour 'skin' for my D7000 pads... :rolleyes:
> Even laying down, despite both of them having ridiculously large cups, I can use the Q701s without any comfort issues. The same can't be said about the D7000, which is impossible to lay down comfortably with without breaking the seal.



Beyer pads might be worth a shot. Not sure if you'd want the 770 or 880 pads, though. On the other hand, my A900's don't give me sweat problems ever since I swapped the pads for the sheepskin leather pads so you could try the Lawton audio pads.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not home right now. Nameless, I can just listen to them as is? I wanna hear CMSS.


 

 Yes, those videos are pre-processed already, so they should be listened to with plain stereo settings. Don't want to double-process the audio, after all.
   
  Just keep in mind that they're all PC version recordings and may not reflect what you hear in any respective console versions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll take a listen soon.

So, my 6.3 too 3.5mm Grado adapter came in today. Now I plug both the D7000/Q701 to my Mixamp without having to constantly attach/detach their own plugs...

Nameless, I downloaded the CoD4 tests, and none of them sounded remotely like virtual surround to me. Can you tell me any of those videos that really highlights positional cues, because CoD4's campaign intro sure as hell doesn't.

That Xonar DH demo sounded nothing like how DH sounds on the Mixamp.

edit: the Bioshock tests also sounded like stereo to me.
*
edit: the Dead Space demo on that link has a door opening and shutting while he is rotating. On two tests, they sounded like stereo. I DEFINITELY know the difference between stereo and processed virtual surround. Those are as stereo as it gets. You can clearly hear the door's sound jumping from the right driver to the left driver, which is a typical stereo problem. Real DH would have been seamless. ONLY the Xonar DH one sounds like the Mixamp.

So I have to say, those tests aren't pre-mixed.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I found the PERFECT video to demo Dolby headphone. EVERYONE can hear this, so try it!

NOTE: At 1:08, this is pretty much exactly how Dolby headphone sounds on the Mixamp:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVdgMQC2rYM[/VIDEO]

The 5.1 DH: On section at 0:54 sounds like a weaker version, which honestly doesn't sound like the Mixamp's DH, but it still showcases positional cues.

Now, if you didn't believe in DH before, you probably will now. Remember: At 1:08-2:00 is pretty much how the Mixamp sounds.





Nameless, does this video showcase how CMSS 3D sounds for real? Because even in this comparison, the Dolby Headphone sounds a lot better in positional cues. CMSS seems so treble oriented, and DH sounds more spacious, and actually has rear sound cues.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ApNLMmeAs[/VIDEO]


----------



## cpagdog

its go big or go home right?  going to try the q701s! next qestion...no current sound card.  Should i buy a sound car + amp or an amp + dac?  and which sound card, amp, and/or dac are the best with the q701s?
   
  Thanks again


----------



## our martin

that's a good game to show you what can be done with sound.. thanks..i play my crysis 2 with dolby home theatre version 3 with a surround sound headset and it sounds glorious..i can't wait for the phoebus to come out and the new super oled screens and ivy bridge and asus 7990s so i can eventually do my new build..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want a portable 1080p screen. Like a laptop, but with an HDMI input. 

GAEMS sells this:

http://www.amazon.com/G155-Gaming-Entertainment-Mobile-included-Playstation-3/dp/B004XGN8W4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331845316&sr=8-1

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJcyNXkTbrk[/VIDEO]

I don't need all that bulk, and it's a 720p screen (probably not a good one, compared to what I'm used to).

Seriously, I just need like a good laptop screen with an HDMI in. Clamshell and all.


----------



## our martin

sony m9000..i am not sure if it's got an hdmi in but it's $89 from ioffer...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guarantee you it's an HDMI out. HDMi outs are found in mostly all portable screens. I need an INPUT, to hook up my game systems. Also, 1080p.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nameless, I downloaded the CoD4 tests, and none of them sounded remotely like virtual surround to me. Can you tell me any of those videos that really highlights positional cues, because CoD4's campaign intro sure as hell doesn't.
> That Xonar DH demo sounded nothing like how DH sounds on the Mixamp.
> edit: the Bioshock tests also sounded like stereo to me.
> 
> ...


 

 Strange...they sure sound pre-mixed with the respective technologies to me. Especially the UT3 videos, though the DH one sounds oddly dull compared to the CMSS-3D one, exactly the opposite of the Crysis 2 video. Of course, I haven't seen them all, and many of the videos recorded may not have been the best examples.
   
  As for the Crysis 2 video, I cannot confirm or deny that it's what CMSS-3D Headphone sounds like in it since I don't own Crysis 2 itself. (If that was Crysis 1 or Warhead, on the other hand, I'd be in a better position to chime in.)
   
  At this rate, I'll have to record my own videos with the help of my SU-DH1. To make sure that the SU-DH1's analog circuitry isn't skewing things, I'm going to have to use it as a DAC for all tests: stereo, CMSS-3D Headphone (pre-processed by the X-Fi Titanium HD), and Dolby Headphone (via Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect from the X-Fi Titanium HD and the SU-DH1 doing the DH processing). As a bonus, this should be more consistent than all the other recordings with Xonar cards being used for DH.
   
  Now, to decide what games to use for this...Thief Gold (DirectSound3D), Unreal Tournament (OpenAL with Old Unreal patch), Battlefield: Vietnam (DirectSound3D), Battlefield 2 (OpenAL), Crysis Warhead (XAudio2), and Just Cause 2 (XAudio2) are likely choices on my end. It would be much easier if I could record timedemos for everything...oh, and while it's not a game, the RightMark 3DSound positioning test (DirectSound3D) is always useful.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously? Other than the Xonar DH downloads, they may as well all have been stereo to me, because that's what they sounded like. Very linear. The DH tests sounded really atmospheric.

As for the Crysis 2 vid, the Dolby Headphone sounded pretty echoey and very processed, but the positional cues were spot on (i'm guessing it was Dolby Headphone Room 3). CMSS 3D sounded thin, treble heavy, and didn't portray rear positional cues well to me.


----------



## Indread

One thing seems to be for certain, at least around these circles; the virtual surround processing (whether it be CMSS-3D or DH) is "better" than multi-driver headphones.
   
  As for console gaming, does ANYONE know an alternative to Dolby Headphone besides multi-driver headphones? Such as CMSS-3D, THX, TruSurround, etc..? Just wondering what other virtual options there are for consoles. Both MixAmp and the SU-DH1 amp options are DH. I'd like to try CMSS-3D for consoles.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





pdiddypdler said:


> http://www.modmic.com/
> 
> Basically a cool mic that turns any headphone into a headset.


 

 Wow! That's exactly what I've been looking for! Let us know how it sounds...especially if it's super sensitive like that Zalman mic that picks up EVERYTHING or if it's more directional w/ some noise cancelling.
  
  Quote: 





cpagdog said:


> its go big or go home right?  going to try the q701s!


 

 You're really going to enjoy these. I watched a little of the new Star Trek (2009) flic yesterday to compare w/ the 580's and the larger soundstage definitely won me over for movies too. I now prefer them for movies, music, and games, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

CMSS-3D Headphone as I know it only applies to PC gaming.
   
  As for that THX TruStudio Pro suite of features that the newer Creative products bear...I never use it on my X-Fi Titanium HD because it's tied to Entertainment Mode and not Game Mode, but the Recon3D USB uses it, and it also accepts S/PDIF input and Dolby Digital for console gaming. I have no idea how well it works, though. Honestly, for console gaming, it's much easier to just stick to the Mixamp unless you really need the discontinued SU-DH1's DTS decoding support.
   
  I just did some Battlefield 2 and RightMark 3DSound testing. It seems that Dolby Headphone distorts the sound less, but CMSS-3D Headphone still has the advantage where positioning is concerned, especially when it has the 3D sound information to present a binaural sound image and not a virtual 7.1 one. (Yes, I can distinguish the rear sound cues just fine. There's also the height cues that DH totally lacks only because it's presenting virtual 7.1.) This is without messing around with the EQ to try and undo the offset in tonal balance.
   
  If only we didn't have to make tradeoffs like this...I'd like to experiment more with Rapture3D's binaural HRTF implementation, but it only works with OpenAL titles and it costs money to use it with games that it's not just outright bundled with (like DiRT 2). Were there a way to use it with DirectSound3D and software-processed audio titles too, the paid versions would be more enticing.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





indread said:


> One thing seems to be for certain, at least around these circles; the virtual surround processing (whether it be CMSS-3D or DH) is "better" than multi-driver headphones.
> 
> As for console gaming, does ANYONE know an alternative to Dolby Headphone besides multi-driver headphones? Such as CMSS-3D, THX, TruSurround, etc..? Just wondering what other virtual options there are for consoles. Both MixAmp and the SU-DH1 amp options are DH. I'd like to try CMSS-3D for consoles.
> 
> Thanks.


 

 Creative's Recon3D has THX's surround thing.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, I just need like a good laptop screen with an HDMI in. Clamshell and all.


 


  I wish laptops had HDMI inputs.  I would pay an extra $100 if my laptop had both HDMI out and IN.  The screen would need it's own firmware or whatever, but I think it could be done.  Unless I'm missing something?...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I wish laptops had HDMI inputs.  I would pay an extra $100 if my laptop had both HDMI out and IN.  The screen would need it's own firmware or whatever, but I think it could be done.  Unless I'm missing something?...


 

 At least one such laptop exists: the Alienware M18x.
   
  Sorry about your wallet, though...they don't come cheap, as expected of a laptop of its size and specifications.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> At least one such laptop exists: the Alienware M18x.
> 
> Sorry about your wallet, though...they don't come cheap, as expected of a laptop of its size and specifications.


 


  There are other laptops with that feature, but instead of costing 100$ more, they cost 1000$ more :S


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I found the PERFECT video to demo Dolby headphone. EVERYONE can hear this, so try it!
> NOTE: At 1:08, this is pretty much exactly how Dolby headphone sounds on the Mixamp:The 5.1 DH: On section at 0:54 sounds like a weaker version, which honestly doesn't sound like the Mixamp's DH, but it still showcases positional cues.
> Now, if you didn't believe in DH before, you probably will now. Remember: At 1:08-2:00 is pretty much how the Mixamp sounds.
> Nameless, does this video showcase how CMSS 3D sounds for real? Because even in this comparison, the Dolby Headphone sounds a lot better in positional cues. CMSS seems so treble oriented, and DH sounds more spacious, and actually has rear sound cues.


 

 No wonder you console guys are so touchy about bass, about 30 seconds of that first vid on my 770-pros and I had a *massive *headache. I don't have that problem at all with CMSS. If I were guessing I'd say CMSS sounds more normal on my headphones while the DH tests had me reaching for the EQ on my E17. Having played some of Crysis 2 with CMSS before the video gives a rough idea of what it's like (especially the vertical cues, again, with my headphones) but hearing it from source definitely sounds wider and clearer. You're making me want to redownload on Steam and make a real video that's not been through a few stages of processing.
   
  I wonder if you tested with one pair of bass heavy headphones and bass light headphones if that would change your opinion... Certainly something to think about.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roller said:


> There are other laptops with that feature, but instead of costing 100$ more, they cost 1000$ more :S


 

 Sure would be nice if they made an ExpressCard or USB 3.0 HDMI capture device, wouldn't it?
   
  ...Oh, wait a minute. There's already the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle, but it costs $200. Ouch. At least it captures component, S-Video, and composite too.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Sure would be nice if they made an ExpressCard or USB 3.0 HDMI capture device, wouldn't it?
> 
> ...Oh, wait a minute. There's already the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle, but it costs $200. Ouch. At least it captures component, S-Video, and composite too.


 


  True. It's the integrated parts that increase the costs. And high quality external solutions are often expensive. Still, there aren't that many laptop screens that are high quality enough to warrant going through all that, except if the user only wants to use a single screen, which in this case would be the laptop's screen.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roller said:


> True. It's the integrated parts that increase the costs. And high quality external solutions are often expensive. Still, there aren't that many laptop screens that are high quality enough to warrant going through all that, except if the user only wants to use a single screen, which in this case would be the laptop's screen.


 

 Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
   
  I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
   
  And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I just did some Battlefield 2 and RightMark 3DSound testing. It seems that Dolby Headphone distorts the sound less, but CMSS-3D Headphone still has the advantage where positioning is concerned, especially when it has the 3D sound information to present a binaural sound image and not a virtual 7.1 one. (Yes, I can distinguish the rear sound cues just fine. There's also the height cues that DH totally lacks only because it's presenting virtual 7.1.) This is without messing around with the EQ to try and undo the offset in tonal balance.


 

 You beat me to it. If you're going to be doing A/B testing, throw some EQ in there so you're not comparing changes in tonal shifts alongside your testing for actual positioning. I want to be able to listen to a position test without it favoring bass-heavy vs. bass-light headphones.
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If only we didn't have to make tradeoffs like this...I'd like to experiment more with Rapture3D's binaural HRTF implementation, but it only works with OpenAL titles and it costs money to use it with games that it's not just outright bundled with (like DiRT 2). Were there a way to use it with DirectSound3D and software-processed audio titles too, the paid versions would be more enticing.


 

 Here's a thought - there's a DH option in MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) as well as an HRTF option in ffdshow I couldn't find any documentation on. How about one of us with a Creative card does some testing? Ideally we'd have an untouched clip of a surround source (game or movie) and then run it through MPC untouched/CMSS (at driver level)/DH (at media player level)/HRTF (at media player level) then run it all through again after it's been EQd to a neutral level? Capture all the outputs from stereo mix to remove the hardware differences from the comparison and bundle all the audio tracks in with the same video file. That way you can change between the various processing on the fly and people with things like Yamaha Silent Cinema can test the original surround which is included against their own receivers as well.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
> 
> I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
> 
> And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...


 

  
  Oh, that EliteBook is quite sweet and the overall system specs make up for a very pleasant user experience, I've used machines with very similar specs and they certainly get the job done.
   
  Unfortunately, I'd only be interested in external solutions due to running a laptop here, allowing me to use it with my machine as well as on a future desktop. And having to endure 1920x1080 here is definitely terrible for computing, especially since the last work computer I used had proper 1920x1200. If I wanted a TV, I'd get a TV lol, but budget constrains can be a pain...


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Sure would be nice if they made an ExpressCard or USB 3.0 HDMI capture device, wouldn't it?
> 
> ...Oh, wait a minute. There's already the Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle, but it costs $200. Ouch. At least it captures component, S-Video, and composite too.


 
   
  I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
   
  Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.


 


  If you only had issues with the remote and not the capture quality itself, then it should be good enough for you to keep it. Are you using a different solution now?
   
  Also, it would be good to have an external solution that used something with more bandwidth than USB 2.0, as its sustained rates aren't enough for higher quality video. Are there any USB 3.0 solutions out in the wild already?


----------



## rabinzero

INCOMING TURTLE BEACH DSS2 REVIEW by Rabinzero
   
  So my dss2 decoder came in and I have to say after testing it, I can NOT recommend this.  Compared to my Tritton AX720 decoder, this thing is extremely weak.  I'm using Q701's and at full volume I felt like I could've kept going 60% more just to get decent sound, but obviously I was already maxed out.  The Sound EQ's don't do much to help the shortage of power to push these phones.  The AX720 could push the phones with no problems.  These struggle and will need an amp if you're going to get it.  However, even with an amp, if you've been using an Astro Mixamp or Tritton Decoder box I feel this would be a step down significantly, BUT this is based on my listening preference.  Sure they are quieter with the slight hiss that the Tritton's have, but now I know why.  They are too quiet.  If you're not familiar with what Astro and Tritton decoders provide when it comes to decent power to push phones and the Dolby Headphone they offer, then I could see this being fine.  However, for accuracy and being fooled that I was even wearing headphones when it came to the Tritton decoder, I have to stick with them.  Buy with caution for those thinking of upgrading from what they already have to this.  I will be sending them back.


----------



## Eric_C

rabinzero, before you send them back could you test them for double-amping? Maybe that will get you the volume you need.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> You beat me to it. If you're going to be doing A/B testing, throw some EQ in there so you're not comparing changes in tonal shifts alongside your testing for actual positioning. I want to be able to listen to a position test without it favoring bass-heavy vs. bass-light headphones.
> 
> Here's a thought - there's a DH option in MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) as well as an HRTF option in ffdshow I couldn't find any documentation on. How about one of us with a Creative card does some testing? Ideally we'd have an untouched clip of a surround source (game or movie) and then run it through MPC untouched/CMSS (at driver level)/DH (at media player level)/HRTF (at media player level) then run it all through again after it's been EQd to a neutral level? Capture all the outputs from stereo mix to remove the hardware differences from the comparison and bundle all the audio tracks in with the same video file. That way you can change between the various processing on the fly and people with things like Yamaha Silent Cinema can test the original surround which is included against their own receivers as well.


 

 An interesting thought with not having to repeat videos using multiple audio streams in the same package (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier given my prior exposure to .MKV files), but your method of recording it just wouldn't work for Dolby Headphone. Also, I'd have to make sure I'm using a game with some sort of timedemo support to ensure that the audio and video match up consistently.
   
  Game audio, especially not hardware-accelerated DirectSound3D or OpenAL, just doesn't work like movies and their pre-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS tracks. Stereo Mix/What U Hear only captures front left/right PCM as well, not the surround channels. (I suppose that's why they call it _Stereo_ Mix...)
   
  In other words, with my current equipment (no C-Media card with DH to capture Stereo Mix from), I still have no choice but to loopback the SU-DH1's output back into the X-Fi Titanium HD's input, complete with any colorations it may bring. Still, I could probably EQ for that in the end, given enough time with a tone generator.
   
  To get a reference point, what EQ settings do you like to use on the X-Fi with CMSS-3D Headphone turned on?
   
  Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I've personally used a Hauppauge Colossus (PCI-E) and it worked pretty well (aside from a few issues with the included IR remote control software). Cheaper than the one you mentioned too. They also have the HD-PVR which I think IS actually USB but it's nowhere near as nice.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no xbox or PS3 and I no longer have the Colossus either.


 

 That might work for HD recording, but my retro console collection demands 240p RGB support, too. That happens to be significantly rarer, to the point where until the Micomsoft SC-500N1 showed up, the only card that I knew could do it was the long-discontinued Immersive Holo3DGraph II (and very late revisions of the first one). I almost got one of those on eBay, but got outbid...and wasn't expecting a Second Chance Offer, by which time I already bought something else and no longer had the funds.


----------



## rabinzero

Good idea Eric C.  I'll give that a spin this weekend and report back


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> An interesting thought with not having to repeat videos using multiple audio streams in the same package (can't believe I didn't think of this earlier given my prior exposure to .MKV files), but your method of recording it just wouldn't work for Dolby Headphone. Also, I'd have to make sure I'm using a game with some sort of timedemo support to ensure that the audio and video match up consistently.
> 
> Game audio, especially not hardware-accelerated DirectSound3D or OpenAL, just doesn't work like movies and their pre-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS tracks. Stereo Mix/What U Hear only captures front left/right PCM as well, not the surround channels. (I suppose that's why they call it _Stereo_ Mix...)
> 
> ...


 

 It doesn't matter if it only captures 2 channel if it's already been converted to virtual surround. Untouched would be untouched and wouldn't need to be recaptured at least for video clips (I don't know about how you'd capture a game in surround though)
   
  You'd only need two runs of the demo, one with CMSS on (to directly handle the game engine position cues) and one with CMSS off with some method of capturing the raw multichannel audio out. Then you could add DH/the ffdshow HRTF in software via the option in MPC-HC
   
  As for EQ, I do only slight EQ adjustments on my E17 so it's an apples to oranges comparison and you'd need someone with actual monitors to take some time and remove all the differences, especially on the low end.
   
  I no longer use the Colossus because I sold it along with a custom rig I built for a client when I stopped watching network TV. However if I remember right it can actually capture multichannel audio over HDMI so it might be a viable solution for producing a multichannel game audio sample to work with.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> So my dss2 decoder came in and I have to say after testing it, I can NOT recommend this.  Compared to my Tritton AX720 decoder, this thing is extremely weak.  I'm using Q701's and at full volume I felt like I could've kept going 60% more just to get decent sound, but obviously I was already maxed out.


 


  That seems abnormal.  The DSS 1 had enough volume for the Q701 I think.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Yeah, there's definitely a lot of cheap TN crap on the market, especially with laptops.
> 
> I'd definitely consider it if I had (or could afford $2,500 for) an HP EliteBook 8740w with the DreamColor screen option, though. 17" of 1920x1200 IPS goodness...but then the 8760w screwed it all up by downgrading to 1920x1080 like damn near every other laptop these days.
> 
> And while I'm talking capture cards, there's the Micomsoft SC-500N1 for PCI-Express x1 slots that I wouldn't mind having in my desktop. Handles 240p RGB from retro consoles and arcade boards pretty well, but Micomsoft products are generally expensive and only sold in Japan...


 


  My HP DV5T laptop has a 15.4" @ 1680 x 1050 which is pretty good.  It was the one of the last 16x10 laptops before they all switched to 16 x9 with usually 1280p or 1365p  :\  Mine seems to have better contrast and is less washed out than newer laptop screens.  Not sure why (I'm sure its a TN panel...)
   
   
  There's not many options for video capture with laptops.  At least laptops that don't have USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt, like mine 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  This AverMedia thing gets good reviews and is cheaper than the Hauppage box: http://www.amazon.com/AVERMEDIA-C281-Game-Capture-Record-Xbox/dp/B005YR0M0W/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
  You can slide your own HDD in to record to.  Only accepts component though.  I guess they don't make external stand-alone capture device with HDMI inputs?
   
  I want to play in HDMI, so I would need a HDMI splitter AND a HDMI to component converter.  That's xbox > hdmi splitter > hdmi to component converter > capture device.  That's getting a little ridiculous


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I been saying. TN seems to have a bad rep, yet my Gateway monitor is apparently TN, and it compares favorably to the pretty high end Samsung LCD TVs from a few years ago. Aside from viewing it from a lower view point (where your eyes are considerably lower than the center of the screen), the screen is amazing. My Panny plasma won awards for being one of (if not THE) the best price/performance TV of last year on some sites. My monitor doesn't look far off from it, other than the obvious plasma/lcd differences.

Speaking of capture devices, I REALLY want one. I need it to do be damn good, record 720p very well and be easy to use.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> It doesn't matter if it only captures 2 channel if it's already been converted to virtual surround. Untouched would be untouched and wouldn't need to be recaptured at least for video clips (I don't know about how you'd capture a game in surround though)
> 
> You'd only need two runs of the demo, one with CMSS on (to directly handle the game engine position cues) and one with CMSS off with some method of capturing the raw multichannel audio out. Then you could add DH/the ffdshow HRTF in software via the option in MPC-HC
> 
> ...


 

 What I'm saying is that there is no method that I am aware of to capture the raw multi-channel output in the first place with the equipment I have. If it's not already pre-processed and downmixed to two channels, it's lost to Stereo Mix. And no, I can't just loopback HDMI without buying a lot of extra equipment.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's what I been saying. TN seems to have a bad rep, yet my Gateway monitor is apparently TN, and it compares favorably to the pretty high end Samsung LCD TVs from a few years ago. Aside from viewing it from a lower view point (where your eyes are considerably lower than the center of the screen), the screen is amazing. My Panny plasma won awards for being one of (if not THE) the best price/performance TV of last year on some sites. My monitor doesn't look far off from it, other than the obvious plasma/lcd differences.
> Speaking of capture devices, I REALLY want one. I need it to do be damn good, record 720p very well and be easy to use.


 

 Some TN LCDs fare better than others in the viewing angle department, but it's on laptops especially that the poor vertical viewing angles tend to annoy me. TVs tend to fare better.
   
  As for capture devices, there's plenty floating about if you just need component or HDMI. It's finding one that handles the really old stuff just as good as the new that's problematic, and were it not for the SC-500N1, I'd probably be hosed as far as finding a 240p RGB capture card goes.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> My HP DV5T laptop has a 15.4" @ 1680 x 1050 which is pretty good.  It was the one of the last 16x10 laptops before they all switched to 16 x9 with usually 1280p or 1365p  :\  Mine seems to have better contrast and is less washed out than newer laptop screens.  Not sure why (I'm sure its a TN panel...)


 

  As mentioned before, not all TN panels are equal, and the vast majority of laptops are TN.
   
  Fortunately, my HP EliteBook 2730p packs an AFFS+ panel, practically the best one can get in terms of viewing angles and outdoor viewability. It's especially important on that one since it's a convertible Tablet PC and it's going to be viewed from all angles in slate mode. The only issue is that HP, Lenovo, and the others like having people play the panel lottery in that you're not always sure exactly what you're going to get unless you're buying used and ask the seller for the monitor hardware ID.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you recommend? I prefer a device that records very smoothly, doesn't add input lag when I'm recording (I can imagine some adding input lag, unless you buy a splitter that goes directly to the TV, so as to bypass the device.) Also, with some software to at least edit my videos.

Its so funny, I was looking into one yesterday, and all the sudden you guys talk about it.

Hmm, I just realized,if I get one of these devices, and run the Mixamp audio out to the devices audio in, I can record that Dolby Headphone goodness so you all can hear it. 

Gotta love that DH stays in the signal once its been added.


----------



## SniperCzar

A couple of minutes of research leads me to believe that VirtualDub might be able to capture multichannel AC3 but I'm still looking for documentation. This post also looks promising though we'd again be sacrificing quality, this time the loss would be in running the digital out the card and back in again - http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/278364-Capturing-AC3-Stage-Two

 This guy seems to have a list of some possible hardware solutions for capturing 8 channel PCM http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1494661#post1494661
   
  Apparently recording 8 channel PCM in Windows or through HDMI just isn't anyone's priority... I'll find somebody with access to an FPGA chip and an oscilloscope if I have to and let them figure it out


----------



## Drastion

MLE

If you want some examples of cmss3d try these

MW2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTaEkePgYZc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

MW2 cmss3d alternating between stereo 

www.zomobo.net/play.php?id=dcB9faNrz_M


----------



## our martin

i don't know if anyones going to review any games on this page but i will give it a try..i am going to make this short.the game is red faction armageddon..i purchased this game from my local game store in england yesterday which was on sale at £10 normally £20..i said to the man on the desk is this game any good? because i forgot to bring my mobile phone with me so i couldn't get a review anywhere..and he replied yes so i went ahead and bought it..that's the last time i ask advice from someone in that store again.. because it's the biggest pile of crap i have ever played..he was one of them people who just wanted to sell you something..i played the game once and then went straight back on battlefield3 with my platoon..but it wasn't all bad news because i bought the newest twilight saga movie breaking dawn which got bad reviews but i went ahead and bought it anyway..and to my supprise it was out of this world and i can't wait for part 2 to come out..i have got all of the twilight movies in my collection now and i think they are the best movies to come out in the last five years! p.s does anyone know if the silent hill hd collection are coming out on pc?


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





our martin said:


> i don't know if anyones going to review any games on this page but i will give it a try..i am going to make this short.the game is red faction armageddon..i purchased this game from my local game store in england yesterday which was on sale at £10 normally £20..i said to the man on the desk is this game any good? because i forgot to bring my mobile phone with me so i couldn't get a review anywhere..and he replied yes so i went ahead and bought it..that's the last time i ask advice from someone in that store again.. because it's the biggest pile of crap i have ever played..he was one of them people who just wanted to sell you something..i played the game once and then went straight back on battlefield3 with my platoon..but it wasn't all bad news because i bought the newest twilight saga movie breaking dawn which got bad reviews but i went ahead and bought it anyway..and to my supprise it was out of this world and i can't wait for part 2 to come out..i have got all of the twilight movies in my collection now and i think they are the best movies to come out in the last five years! p.s does anyone know if the silent hill hd collection are coming out on pc?


 

 In b4 vampire erotica... shoot!
   
  Now that we're thoroughly off topic, anyone want to do an in-depth on tone balance of CMSS vs DH? I seriously think DH boosts the bass, I've never gotten a bass headache from my Beyers (my sub at high efficiency ceiling>dust conversion levels is a different story) before listening to that test, and on occasion I've tried them with some pretty "thumpin beatz". If the two shift the balance in opposite directions then different virtual surround processing is going to require a different headphone recommendation.


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Speaking of capture devices, I REALLY want one. I need it to do be damn good, record 720p very well and be easy to use.


 
   
  If you want the best quality, you can't beat the Hauppage HD PVR. You'll need a laptop/computer to record though, doesn't have to be a fast one, unless you plan on doing HD video editing. The other option is the Avermedia Game Capture HD, it's basically like the Hauppage but you don't need a laptop. Aver is cheaper, very easy to use, but quality isn't as good as Hauppage. IMO the Hauppage is well worth the premium in price over Aver because of the video quality. Also another issue with the Aver is it has input lag, some people say they don't have that issue though, but one of my friends has both the Aver and Hauppage and he has input lag with the Aver.
   
  Here's a video recorded on Hauppage. This guy has one of the best video qualities I've seen.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMZKiB_M58&feature=plcp&context=C42fb805VDvjVQa1PpcFPLjA4lYLR9YTf2gYyxqyue0I-qp6lsEsA%3D
   
  BTW, hadn't been here in a while and was looking for this thread in the headphone section and couldn't find it. Searched for it and found the new video game forum, nice job on the petition guys!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I was talking to Riku and he has the Hauppaugue HD PVR. He sent me some vids so I can see the quality. I was sold immediately. It'll be delivered tomorrow. So excited. 

Now to get a working Vegas Pro for editing. @_@


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I was talking to Riku and he has the Hauppaugue HD PVR. He sent me some vids so I can see the quality. I was sold immediately. It'll be delivered tomorrow. So excited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 If you need something to play with in the interim you can always get a trial of Adobe Premiere Pro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I'll be all ghetto using Windows Movie Maker.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I was talking to Riku and he has the Hauppaugue HD PVR. He sent me some vids so I can see the quality. I was sold immediately. It'll be delivered tomorrow. So excited.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


  You just going to use component then?  Or you do have a way to use HDMI and send component to the Happaupugugueguege?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm just gonna use Component. Rather, I'm just gonna use the device when I feel like recording, but for the most part, I'll still be playing my games through HDMI. I bought the Hyppogriph (  ) mainly because there are times when I wanna show my friends something in a game, but don't have a way to.

That, and when I want to showoff.


----------



## pdiddypdler

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
   
  I'll be getting an intensity pro soon.


----------



## GigaFi

Looks like this thread got moved?
   
  I just ordered a pair of Siberia V2s earlier today...for kicks; expecting to be disappointed but we'll see.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Is there a constant debate between Black Magic Intensity Pro vs Hauppaugue HD PVR?
   
  The only thing I was told that seems to be a deal breaker is the fact you can't stream through HDMI because of HDCP (I could've sworn that was only exclusive to movies...)  You still can hook up Component though through it, but that's the same as the HD PVR.  Otherwise they're ALMOST identical right?
   
  And yes I understand that contrary to popular belief, you can still generate the same video quality(with some very minute differences that nobody really cares) with component as you would with HDMI the only difference being that one is analog and one is digital.
   
  Also howdy!  I just registered to ask a couple things.  (I made a topic earlier but .... that topic seemed to have turned out dead unfortunately)
   
  I PMed Envy on recommendations for headphones for "all in one package" that is "playing it safe" for someone like me who doesn't really know what his ears really likes yet. (Pure newbie here) This would be on the console mostly single player, as I don't have any competitive shooters on my console, they're all on the PC, but the "playing it safe" is so that there shouldn't be a problem using said headphone on the PC as well.
   
  While I'm still debating with myself on it, based on Envy's advice it seems to be an AKG Q701 with a 2011 Mixamp and MAYBE a Fiio E9 added to the sound chain.  There's consistent posts (from chicolom and so on) saying that the Mixamp amps em properly just fine (with voice chat being used even).  But I figured the E9 would add *something* to it, unless people seriously want me to reconsider not getting it if it's just this setup.
   
  To tell a bit of history bout myself, my first headphone purchase that costed alot was back in 2009, upon getting the Astro A40 set.  So yeah I didn't know any better back then, but I don't regret it as it made connectivity very convenient for me.  In any case I'm also going to try and see if I can sell this setup at some ridiculously cheap price.  ($100+ maybe?)
   
  So yeah even though it's my 2nd, I guess this can be considered a first true purchase on headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 .
   
  @Envy: What's a Hyppogriph?  A google just gives me every single wiki of every RPG that has had one lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> While I'm still debating with myself on it, based on Envy's advice it seems to be an AKG Q701 with a 2011 Mixamp and MAYBE a Fiio E9 added to the sound chain.  There's consistent posts (from chicolom and so on) saying that the Mixamp amps em properly just fine (with voice chat being used even).  But I figured the E9 would add *something* to it, unless people seriously want me to reconsider not getting it if it's just this setup.
> 
> So yeah even though it's my 2nd, I guess this can be considered a first true purchase on headphones
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I don't think the E9 "adds" anything, besides volume.  My M-stage does add something, which was a pleasant surprise for me. 
   
  I would 2nd the Q701s (of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
   
  But I would wait on getting a 2nd amp for double amping unless you _know_ that you need it. 

 Last time I checked the A40s had decent resell value, with all the MLG marketing they do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, Hyppogryph aka Hauppauge. Just messing with the name, because its consistently/constantly butchered by everyone online. Its hard to write or say. Hauppaugegeugbfijfcbsaiujsgey 

I also say that for the purpose of gaming, the E9 doesn't ADD anything, other than feeding plenty of power to the Q701. I don't use it with the Q701/Mixamp, unless I need a bit more juice. Some games do need it for me, and I definitely need when using a mic.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, Hyppogryph aka Hauppauge. Just messing with the name, because its consistently/constantly butchered by everyone online. Its hard to write or say. Hauppaugegeugbfijfcbsaiujsgey
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I see @ the Hippopotamus.  Sure fooled me =P
  
  Well the mic part alone seems like good incentive to get a 2nd amp then as a "just in case".  Unless you have any alternatives, based on what I read, the E9 seems to be a pretty bread and butter purchase for most situations at $100+.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the E9 is fine as a dedicated music amp (seriously, its great), and as a volume booster. Not sure, but if you just want an amp for boosting volume, you may get away with using the Fiio 11 for that same purpose. Its cheaper, and portable. The E5/E6 don't have enough power to boost decibel levels of the Mixamp enough to warrant their purchase. My two old E5s barely did anything to the Mixamp.


----------



## AxelDaemon

I see, well thanks for the insight.
   
  I know it might be taboo but I'll still ask anyway.  Any user input on the TB Z6A, after it replaced the HPX?
   
  I guess I'll ask on behalf of my friend about this also.  He's also purchasing some headphones at the price range of $100-$180.  If the TB Z6A turns out to actually be good at that price range ($60 just for the headphones) then he might go with that.
   
  My friend says he's not a competitive person so not much if any at all on competitive shooters.  So just music (Dubstep, K-pop,  J-Pop, rock, electronica, hip hop, dance), MMOs and PC/console games.  If he REALLY had to choose between the two though, he'd put priority over his music.  A headset for the mic would be nice, but I told him with just a little bit of elbow grease he can manually stick a mic on a headphone if it's not a headset.
   
  He also plans on having a Mixamp too.
   
  At that price range I was thinking of a PC360 for him.  Course I don't really know how his ears work lol, so anything goes at this point.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I found the PERFECT video to demo Dolby headphone. EVERYONE can hear this, so try it!
> NOTE: At 1:08, this is pretty much exactly how Dolby headphone sounds on the Mixamp:The 5.1 DH: On section at 0:54 sounds like a weaker version, which honestly doesn't sound like the Mixamp's DH, but it still showcases positional cues.
> Now, if you didn't believe in DH before, you probably will now. Remember: At 1:08-2:00 is pretty much how the Mixamp sounds.
> Nameless, does this video showcase how CMSS 3D sounds for real? Because even in this comparison, the Dolby Headphone sounds a lot better in positional cues. CMSS seems so treble oriented, and DH sounds more spacious, and actually has rear sound cues.


 


  Thanks for the videos. DH sounds pretty good. Form what I remember from the Tritton AX 720 decoder it sounded pretty distant though. Not much bass at all. Everything sounded weak and very far away. But maybe that was just the weak headset?!
   
  I still haven´t decided wethere I will go with Dolby Headphone or Yamahas Silent Cinema. More of a question in which direction I wanna go though (only headphones or headphones + speaker set)


----------



## Eric_C

MLE, I just demo'd the D2000 and D5000 in a store today, unamped. I have to say...I find them...a little strident. Which is weird, because I thought that between my 880's and HFI-580's, I'd be immune to harsh highs, but there you have it. Nice bass though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eric, I'm surprised that you say the D5000 is strident. Everyone on Head-fi claims it to be very warm and smooth. I tend to think strident = harsh in the treble. Unless it's something else entirely. If I'm right, it can't be as the DT990 in that area, and I don't have much of a problem with the DT990's treble, though it's a bit much for very long sessions.

What people deem as harsh, I mostly consider fine, as I like sparkle in my treble. I really, really don't like smooth treble. In any case, the D7000 may not be something you like, though I hear the treble is more refined than those two.


----------



## Eric_C

Yeah, that's why I thought it weird too. To be fair the D5000 was brand new (they unboxed it for me to try, those nice folk), and I'm open to the possibility of burn-in for full-sized headphones. 
  The D2000 wasn't super strident, but the highs were borderline annoying on a few tracks. And again, I ran them unamped, because I'd heard they were both easy to drive.
   
  Btw did the prices on both these headphones jump recently?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. It depends on where you get them. I believe the D2000 runs around $220 when it's a 'deal', and the D5000 at around $350.

But yeah, I think it's more personal preference. OH! Yes, the D7000's treble is a bit screechier without an amp. So I would actually agree. It doesn't bother me, but it definitely sounds better with amping.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno. It depends on where you get them. I believe the D2000 runs around $220 when it's a 'deal', and the D5000 at around $350.
> But yeah, I think it's more personal preference. OH! Yes, the D7000's treble is a bit screechier without an amp. So I would actually agree. It doesn't bother me, but it definitely sounds better with amping.


 


  Wait till you get a load of this: D5000 retails for ~US$ 794 here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Where the hell do you live? I mean, $350 isn't the basic price, it's like the best deal I see them for usually.

Just like the D7000 can be had for less than $600, but the MSRP is $999.

My HDPVR came in! Woot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Click on it to get the full screen HD version.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s8hNtGjAW0&feature=share[/VIDEO]

My first HD PVR test. 

Castlevania HD. You can tell I was rushing so bad. I just wanted to hurry up and upload something.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Click on it to get the full screen HD version. My first HD PVR test.
> 
> Castlevania HD. You can tell I was rushing so bad. I just wanted to hurry up and upload something.


 


  That look REALLY good.
   
  Now I want one   =\


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Never mind


----------



## Riku540

You're welcome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I said thanks a billion times! 

edit:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJpUINiofY[/VIDEO]

Again, just checking


----------



## Riku540

Maybe I should post my unfinished crap and it will get 2 maybe 3 hits.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell yeah.  I like your vids. Okay, let's make a thread for vids. XD This one is getting un gaming headphone related.


----------



## Riku540

I'll let someone else start the thread, as I am a nobody here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't say that. XP

I made it quickly, since I guess it falls on me. :mad:


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> I see, well thanks for the insight.
> 
> I know it might be taboo but I'll still ask anyway.  Any user input on the TB Z6A, after it replaced the HPX?
> 
> ...


 


  Post bump?!
   
  @MLE: Nice vids btw.  Too bad I gotta keep em at 360p else Philippine internet speeds would take forever to load it =P


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell, I have a very fast connection, yet Youtube acts as if I have a 28.8k modem. :mad:


----------



## darren i

Well, I finally took the plunge and got the Denon D2000s (mainly for gaming and movie use). I hooked them up last night to my mixamp whilst thinking: "I hope I'm not going to feel disappointed". I wasn't! I played the first couple of hours of Mass Effect 3 and even straight out of the box I was impressed - the sound was very immersive, exactly what I was hoping for. Hopefully they'll get even better after some burn-in.The DH effect also seems great, sounds seem to come seamlessly from 360 degrees with good positional cues.
   
  Anyway, thanks for all the feedback I got and for this thread in general 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Darren


----------



## Roller

Thankfully, broadband minimum speeds are being increased all over the world. Youtube has the nasty habit of messing with video and audio quality if you upload non compliant formats that are then processed by Youtube.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Yeah, this is minimum but it's still quite fast for e-mail, manga viewing and streaming videos (YMMV with the loading speed) at 360p
   
  Though the max isn't that fast either.  About 200 KBs.


----------



## Roller

Codecs have improved quite a bit and there is less and less reason to use such low resolutions as 360p. Youtube offers lower resolutions anyway, so might as well send a higher quality file so everyone can enjoy it the same.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> I know it might be taboo but I'll still ask anyway.  Any user input on the TB Z6A, after it replaced the HPX?
> I guess I'll ask on behalf of my friend about this also.  He's also purchasing some headphones at the price range of $100-$180.  If the TB Z6A turns out to actually be good at that price range ($60 just for the headphones) then he might go with that.
> 
> He also plans on having a Mixamp too.


 

  
  TB Z6A is a multi driver (Eight!) design, which is usually inferior to a two a stereo headset + Dolby Headphone.  And getting a mixamp +  8 driver headset doesn't make any sense.
   
  Tritton has some cheap stereo headsets, but I don't know how good they are.  Also the Razer carcharias is pretty cheap.  Again, never heard them.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Hrm you know... I really don't actually understand the formula/mechanics of the Mixamp.  So bear with me as my terminology is a bit flaky.
   
  It provides Dolby Headphone which is a virtual 5.1 setup to your stereo headphones?
  The Astro A40's drivers is also multiple drivers right? It supposedly has a physical 5.1 setup.  Or it's also a standard stereo set?
   
  If it's the former then dolby headphone is kinda a moot point for the Astro A40 no?  (Or based on MLE's explanation from a different topic that I'm trying to remember) going Dolby Headphone will just make the headphone use only left and right speakers regardless if it's a multi driver or not.
   
  In which case if a source say a PC without going into detail had a digital out(toslink) if you hooked it up to the mixamp via toslink then a multi driver headphone like the A40.  If you stream something that has dolby digital in it etc etc.  It's properly being decoded into the headphone right?  Or you need to turn on the dolby button for it to be properly decoded?
   
  My Mixamp is an old version (2009) so my mileage might vary compared to the now 2011 version cause the dolby button wasn't really... interesting.  Comparing the on and off: while on the sound was SLIGHTLY more muffled (or muddy is the proper term?)  Plus the sound was coming from inside my head while it's on.  Not only that the sound direction as you call it? The left, right, forward and back wasn't as discrete anymore, they sorta "merged" (this is probably where I got that muffled sensation from).
   
  While off it's the opposite the sound was coming from outside not inside my head.  The sound direction was alot more discrete for what it could offer, and everything just sounded a bit more clear.
   
  Hopefully I got it right in understanding how a mixamp handles a stereo or multi driver headphone where the source is through a digital out/toslink.
   
  =======
   
  As for my friend well.  His budget is about $100-$180, and the best headset at that price range that would most likely be recommended on this site I imagine is the PC360 no?  If there's a headPHONE that's of even higher quality than the PC360 even though it doesn't have a mic that'd be interesting to know about.
   
  In any case thanks chicolom.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A40s are a stereo headset. Very illogical if Astro bundleda multi driver headphone with a stereo amplifier.

In any case, I had an old Mixamp too. Worked just like the new one. Its the same exact processing.

Refer to the first video on the first page, to understand how virtual surround is supposed to work. Just plug in your headphones, without any enhancements. You'll get Dolby Headphone in that vid, on the part I mention.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hell, I have a very fast connection, yet Youtube acts as if I have a 28.8k modem.


 

 That 28.8 modem is actually connected to the sole youtube server hosting all the videos you want to watch and only those videos due to the Cloud Uncertainty Principle...


----------



## AxelDaemon

Oh I see, thanks for the correction.  I'm starting to understand it alot better now.  (Embarrassingly this also means that my sound setup this entire time on my PC has been incorrectly done.... least I think so, luckily still sounded great at least)
   
  And unfortunately all my headset belongings etc is still back in the US.  (Again due to circumstances I have to stay in the Philippines for the remainder of the year)
   
  So only thing I have is these stock apple in ear phones.  Though that alone I could tell the DH in the vid so that was really interesting!
   
  In any case during my time here I'm gonna try and see if I can find any dealers or friend's of my dad who can sell/let me borrow the Q701 and try em out.
   
  @MLE: Oh so you have the old one.... Question, when you turn the volume dial on the mixamp right wards do you start getting any hissing at or past 1 oclock?  Mine did. (Game/Voice was centered/middle still)
   
  In which case in a sound chain via double amping etc, if one amp makes hissing, will that hissing travel to your headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I *had* the old one. I replaced it with the new 5.8 wireless version.

Yes, all these Dolby Headphone amps hiss at certain volume levels. Luckily, adding an extra amp didn't add noticeable hiss, though the Lyr's hum did ramp up overall noise. As long as the amp you use has a quiet noise floor, you won't get extra hiss.

Also certain headphones are great at hiding hiss. The Q701 is one of these. The D7000 is sensitive as hell, so the hiss is noticeable in comparison.


----------



## Phos

Something I can't help but wonder about would be putting an in line resistor between the mixamp and the final amp, if it would tone down the hiss.  
   
  It's my understanding that out of the console compatible mix amp like devices the quietest one is the Recon3D, but I've heard the THX sourced surround effect isn't as good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought the old Mixamp was very quiet. Not silent but damn good at never really an issue. Of the ones I've heard, the AX720 box was pretty noisy.


----------



## Indread

Things are slowly making more sense to me, so thanks to everyone whose provided answers.
   
  Is there a consensus on which decoder is preferred? Mixamp, DSS, DSS2, Tritton, or SDUs? etc
   
  Also, I've read about the new DSS2's, especially on Amazon, about how they are no longer 7.1 unlike the original DSSs, and how you can only change 4 channels on the new DSS2's. I really have no clue what they're talking about, since it's all just decoding done by Dolby headphone, and I doubt there's any difference between the DSS v. DSS2, as they both rely on Dolby Headphone. Am I misunderstanding the issue here? source: http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Surround-Processor-Xbox-360-63043006306200/dp/B006W41X36


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No you're correct. It was the same with the Mixamp. It was advertised as a virtual 5.1, now its advertised as virtual 7.1, even though toslink isn't even capable of doing 7.1.

I think they're marketing it as having 4 speakers because of the customizable placement of said speakers. If I remember correctly, someone here didn't care for the DSS2 compared to the AX720, so I'm not sure what to think of it. The AX720 is literally a hissier Mixamp.


----------



## Phos

I think there's precedent for Dolby receivers interpolating two side channels but that doesn't really apply to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Drastion

I have been getting some use out of my mixamp now that I have it. I agree with people that there shipping is a joke. My free shipping order from guitar center got here faster than my $16 astro shipping. Still only paid 126 shipped for the pro mixamp and astars so not a bad deal in the end.

I am really liking my q40s amazing sub bass. Played the ME3 demo a few times just to hear the reapers. Especially when the one landed in the water and took out a ship. Playing some dead space was great too. Got fooled into thinking there was a huge beast in the next room. Turns out those long legged living finger quys let out a huge low level groan.


----------



## SniperCzar

Hmm, has anyone tried rolling parts on a wired mixamp? I have a feeling that could fix a whole lot of problems...


----------



## our martin

wheres this new games forum then?


----------



## ninjikiran

I am trying the J$ Leather pads on my DT770 pro, they are actually rather comfy.  Even if they don't look perfectly made.  I love velours though, but i'll stick with these to see how they effect the sound being that they put the drivers slightly further from the ear and reflect more than absorb.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna jerry-rig the Mixamp to my capture device, so I can record a video with Dolby Headphone. The device is shoddy at best (audio drop outs, program freezing, colors jumping at times), but I'll try.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





our martin said:


> wheres this new games forum then?


 


  Serious?
   

  
  Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Hmm, has anyone tried rolling parts on a wired mixamp? I have a feeling that could fix a whole lot of problems...


 


  There is someone on Guru3D who added his own opamp sockets to the mixamp. He also modified a pair of Psyko Carbon's to have Beyer/AKG drivers, and then made his own amp for it.
   
  http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=345434
  http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=345527


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I was able to very briefly test out Dolby Headphone through the HD PVR. I wasn't able to record, but I was able to hear Dolby Headphone through the capture screen on the PC, so it definitely works.

Anyone with a recording device can just feed a 3.5mm to RCA cable from the Mixamp's audio headphone out to the recorders RCA audio in, and Dolby Headphone will sound great off the recording device. Too bad I wasn't able to record anything though. I tried and tried, but the program keeps crashing.


----------



## fustrun

Hey guys !
   
  So i bough an ASUS Essence STX audio card and i got the DT990 pro headphones . . now i tried to play with the settings but everything sounds kinda muddy and no helpfull sound positioning . .
 So what settings do you guys use with dolby digital ? do i need to touch the sound settings on windows ? what about the game's audio settings ?
   
  Thanks !


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fustrun said:


> Hey guys !
> 
> So i bough an ASUS Essence STX audio card and i got the DT990 pro headphones . . now i tried to play with the settings but everything sounds kinda muddy and no helpfull sound positioning . .
> So what settings do you guys use with dolby digital ? do i need to touch the sound settings on windows ? what about the game's audio settings ?
> ...


 

 Go into the Windows sound control panel and check that your speaker/headphone output is set to 5.1 or 7.1. Software-driven audio middleware in modern games looks at that setting to determine how the sound is mixed before it even hits the sound card (for the worse, I might add).
   
  Also make sure you have Dolby Headphone enabled. Dolby Digital shouldn't even be a factor here, since the sound card drivers should be decoding such signals before outputting them, and PC games generally work with uncompressed PCM channels anyway.
   
  I can't really help too much, though, because I don't own a Xonar or other C-Media card to mess around with.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Hmm, has anyone tried rolling parts on a wired mixamp? I have a feeling that could fix a whole lot of problems...


 

 I wouldn't be as simple as that.  From looking at a high res pic I looked up pretty much all the ICs and didn't see any issues with them.  I would pretty much need a complete redesign as my guess is any background hiss is inherent to the topology or PCB layout and not the parts.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fustrun said:


> So I bought an ASUS Essence STX audio card and i got the DT990 pro headphones . . now i tried to play with the settings but everything sounds kinda muddy and no helpful sound positioning . .
> So what settings do you guys use with Dolby Digital ? do I need to touch the sound settings on windows ? what about the game's audio settings ?


 

 In the Xonar control panel.
  Audio channel should be set to "8 channel".
  Sample rate try PCM 44.1KHz or PCM96KHz, or PCM 192KHz.
  Analog Out "Headphone".
   
  Headphone Advanced Setting,
  Click on the second green square to right of where you just set "Headphone".
  You want the middle setting  "High Gain (+12dB for 64~300 Ohms)".
   
  Try leaving "Dolby Headphone" unchecked.


----------



## fustrun

Leaving dolby headphones unchecked ? that's part of the reason why i bought this card . . i thought it suppose to make a diffrence . .and my settings are as you said just with dolby headphones enabled . . so i checked windows speaker config and it stands on 7.1 so all is good . . and what about in-game settings ?
  It sounds so messy atm . . does anyone now what's lazy's settings ?


----------



## Phos

Do, you want Dolby headphone checked, though I guess it might be worth while to compare it to unchecked to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## AxelDaemon

There oughta be a guide similar to this one, but for PC like.
   
  "What settings to use for this soundcard + the mixamp etc" and just people posting their own experiences/setups what worked for them.
   
  @MLE: What causes the crash?  I haven't the slightest clue how it works, when I googled up "HD PVR crashes", there's various causes for crashing so yeah.


----------



## Roller

Computers have soundcards that handle those surround virtualization techs if desired, no need to use things like Mixamps and such.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Oh so it's actually redundant to use a Mixamp combined with say, a digital out/toslink cable to the?
   
  Edit: Wait, bad memory, could've sworn I looked into this.  It's not *bad* to hook it up.  In fact it's preference, not to mention there's also that game/voice dial too.  I also recall that some people prefer Dolby Headphone over say CMSS3D.
   
  Unless you're saying, if you don't plan on using the features of the soundcard then don't get on, just hook up the mixamp to an onboard that has digital out?  Or if you plan on using a soundcard what's the ideal setup then? Just simply connect it via 3.5mm?
   
  I must have a misconception with the toslink cable then.  I thought it was necessary to have it so you can stream dolby digital etc through.
   
  But if watching that vid taught me anything, once the data is inside already, the cable used to output the sound be it 3.5mm etc doesn't matter you'll get Dolby _____.


----------



## Roller

Mixamps and similar products purpose is to be used with consoles that don't natively handle surround by themselves.


----------



## ninjikiran

Or if you want to have 1 hub for gaming audio where you dont have to switch your headphones around.  For PC only if your not into external dacs just get a good sound card and a cheap headphone amp.  On the flip you could use the mixamp through RCA and have your consoles connected digitally. That would give you the physical volume control and best of all worlds. 
   
  If say you prefer CMSS3d over dolby headphone.  The mixamp itself is not a bad sounding dac by the way, in fact it sounds pretty good by comparison and the built in amp is powerful enough for most cans.  So it could be a cheap way to start the high end journey.(I  would rate it well above its $130 price tag compared to other dacs in the price range).  Of course my bifrost destroys it but if your only interested in gaming all the detail and sound quality is in tact.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> There oughta be a guide similar to this one, but for PC like.
> 
> "What settings to use for this soundcard + the mixamp etc" and just people posting their own experiences/setups what worked for them.


 

I wrote a PC gaming audio guide, but I only have so many sound cards and so much money to buy sound cards with for the sole purpose of reviewing.
   
  Needless to say, I can't write something tailored to every sound card in existence right now. Most of my knowledge is concentrated on X-Fi cards, not anything with a C-Media chip or even those Recon3D cards with the Sound Core3D DSP.
   
  And as far as CMSS-3D Headphone vs. Dolby Headphone is concerned, I prefer the former just because DH can't use the 3D positional information DirectSound3D and OpenAL games offer to provide proper binaural sound with height cues instead of virtual 7.1, but it does seem to skew the sound signature more. (Rapture3D's implementation may be even better than both for all I know, but I can't get the DiRT 2 "Game" version to switch to headphone mode to test it out with, and I don't want to pay up for the "User" version just to find out that it suffers from the same problem.)


----------



## AxelDaemon

Oh and just to establish here.... I'm a newbie to this whole thing, of sound mechanics, or maybe to make it sound more fancy, sound engineering har har.
   
  @PFG: Woah hey thanks, should've checked the computer audio section har har. (Rather... either I missed it, or your guide isn't in the Wiki... All I see is the foobar one) couple things though.
  No clue what that 3D rapture thing is so I'll research on that later.  2nd, there's more than one version of DiRT 2?
  And once I invest in a X-Fi Titanium HD I'll just test it myself between CMSS3D-Headphone and Dolby Headphone but I'm gonna elaborate on that more further down this post.
   
  In any case I'll start clean again.
   
  You know... I think the reason why I was so confused was because I treated the manuals of the A40/Mixamp like the bible.  With the "good, better, best" thing and all that.
   
  So to clear this up I think the easiest way (for me anyway) to see if I got this right or not is to have this explained through a format.  Heck I bet you could copy and paste this on to your guide Nameless.  And if I got something wrong, anyone is welcome to edit it and repost it with the modifications.
   
  I just have decent enough deduction skills to get by.  So here's what I've interpreted so far.  though I'm only gonna list the ones I see myself end up using.  I suppose with this list people can expand upon it.
   
  Though you know it seems like your guide covers and helps with understanding connectivity as well.  I suppose this still is a convenient quick "lazy man's" guideline to connections har har.  That and I have OCD to some extent so laying it out like this would calm my nerves =P
   
  In my case this would be for a Q701 or pretty much a stereo headphone.
*Your Headphones connected w/ * 
*1.* Soundcard on the PC (ie X-Fi Titanium HD) 
            *TRS 3.5mm* is recommended for best results in , movies, musics and games etc.  CMSS3D-Headphone works fully?
            So long as the soundcard supports dolby etc.
            Doesn't matter if it's a 3.5mm etc right? Cause the audio already contains the info. That Dolby video by MLE proves
            this, just using apple in ear phones and can tell =P
   
           *+Mixamp* : *Toslink* redundant? Seems like PFG's guide confirms about analog circuit bypassing, so this might
            actually have some use =P
   
*2.* Console
           *+Mixamp* : *Toslink* self explanatory lol.  Astro already provides instructions about this.  Or for that matter I think it's
   
  I think that covered everything, hopefully I interpreted it right... Not really impressive as a layout guide.  Looked prettier in my head lol.
   
  Edit: Ugh hit the edit button for like the 5th time spell checking.  1:55 AM in the morning, time to snooze!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, if you want Dolby Digital with the Mixamp, the Toslink must be used. With analog signals, you're only getting Pro Logic II at best. As for the USB running audio, I believe it's just going to be stereo, as the USB was more meant for chat purposes.

I did link the PC guide on the first post.

PC use may be very reliant on PC settings, but using the toslink should still be the best method for audio with the Mixamp.

Also, I link a video on the first post showing how Dolby Headphone sounds like. If your settings don't have it sounding somewhat like that, then you're probably not getting DH.


----------



## fustrun

@namelessFPG
   
  I saw the guide but it does a job of explaining the diffrent technologies and such . . and i'm looking for some pointers about the settings . . i have to say i'm pretty shocked . . i thought with a subject with almost 400 pages of discussions i would get hundreds of presets people use . . so far i'm very dissapointed with the Dolby features . . makes everything sound wierd (pushing low ends too much) and no logical cue positioning. and if i disable the dolby feature it sounds like an onboard soundcard . . i mean i dont regret getting the headphones . . they are the sweetest purchase i made in a long time but the card . . if people actually tell me to turn off the feature that i actually bought the card to get . . well that's just sad.


----------



## AxelCloris

I wouldn't say Toslink to a mixamp is redundant out of the X-Fi HD. You'll get DH from the DD output over a toslink cable. It will give you a different sound than using the surround processing that comes with the card natively. It would depend on which you prefer. I've played with Creative's hardware and I wasn't impressed with their quality, but the DH from my mixamp works for me. But then you have Nameless, who loves the CMSS3D processing. Everyone has different tastes. So if you have the mixamp, play with it and see then go with the setup that sounds best to you.


----------



## AxelDaemon

@MLE: What I already complimented twice (previous post and just now post) about how I could tell quite well with just a pair of stock Apple in-ear phones, in regards to the test video.
   
  As for you posting PFG's guide.  My bad, totally missed it.
   
  @Axel: Thanks for the insight.  Course being able to experiment will have to wait for awhile.  Hence I've settled for being an information hog at the moment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My bad Axel, I do recall you saying that. So many people here, I forget who said what. 

Very bad attention span, lol.


----------



## AxelDaemon

S'okay
  Off Topic comment:
   
  Might I add that during my time trying to register in Head-Fi... I couldn't!  I only used Firefox though, but each time I hit register ,it just wipes clean everything I input and nothing happens.
   
  I figured maybe Head-Fi was racist to outside regions(I kid lol), so had my friend in the US do it for me cept he did it on Chrome (same information inputted too).  So Firefox issue maybe?
   
  2nd, had I known that you could add spaces to your name (actually the description makes you THINK no spaces are allowed).  I'd have put a space inbetween my user name.
   
  That or MLE is just special.


----------



## AxelCloris

Having 2 Axels here might start to get confusing  I read MLE's reply and instantly assumed it was addressed to me... I was confused


----------



## AxelCloris

Axel, I see from the profile that you have the Mixamp already, do you own the X-Fi HD or is that going to be a future purchase? If you haven't picked it up yet and want to see how the mixamp can handle gaming on the PC cheaply, I use the Turtle Beach Micro II with my laptop and the Mixamp on the go. I know there are better USB to optical connections out there, but I'm impressed with how nice it sounds for the price. I got mine around $25 shipped. Just something to consider. Most of the time a built in PCI or PCI-E card will give you better quality over the same connection.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> @PFG: Woah hey thanks, should've checked the computer audio section har har. (Rather... either I missed it, or your guide isn't in the Wiki... All I see is the foobar one) couple things though.
> No clue what that 3D rapture thing is so I'll research on that later.  2nd, there's more than one version of DiRT 2?
> And once I invest in a X-Fi Titanium HD I'll just test it myself between CMSS3D-Headphone and Dolby Headphone but I'm gonna elaborate on that more further down this post.
> 
> ...


 

 There's only one version of DiRT 2 on the PC. It's Rapture3D that comes in multiple versions: a "Game" version that comes pre-packaged with certain games (mostly Codemasters racing games), a "User" version that can be used with any OpenAL game that costs money, and an "Advanced" version that costs a LOT of money, but supports output over ASIO and might have some authoring tools for higher-order ambisonics as well.
   
  I'll take your feedback on suggested sound configurations into account. I just have to write up something and generally clean up the guide a bit (it's a very long read).
  
  Quote: 





fustrun said:


> @namelessFPG
> 
> I saw the guide but it does a job of explaining the diffrent technologies and such . . and i'm looking for some pointers about the settings . . i have to say i'm pretty shocked . . i thought with a subject with almost 400 pages of discussions i would get hundreds of presets people use . . so far i'm very dissapointed with the Dolby features . . makes everything sound wierd (pushing low ends too much) and no logical cue positioning. and if i disable the dolby feature it sounds like an onboard soundcard . . i mean i dont regret getting the headphones . . they are the sweetest purchase i made in a long time but the card . . if people actually tell me to turn off the feature that i actually bought the card to get . . well that's just sad.


 

 Even I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't as much discussion on optimal sound card settings in there. It's important that non-X-Fi card users chime in to fill in where I can't, at least until I'm in the position to get sound cards for review purposes without severe financial pain.
   
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I wouldn't say Toslink to a mixamp is redundant out of the X-Fi HD. You'll get DH from the DD output over a toslink cable. It will give you a different sound than using the surround processing that comes with the card natively. It would depend on which you prefer. I've played with Creative's hardware and I wasn't impressed with their quality, but the DH from my mixamp works for me. But then you have Nameless, who loves the CMSS3D processing. Everyone has different tastes. So if you have the mixamp, play with it and see then go with the setup that sounds best to you.


 

 The one thing about HRTF-based binaural surround is that your mileage WILL vary. Sometimes, the effect totally falls apart for some people because their HRTFs are too far from the average. Other times, there's a distinct coloration to the sound that each processing tech brings that people will like or hate.
   
  People should be encouraged to experiment and find out what sounds best to them wherever possible, since the only ears you can really trust in this field are your own. I can provide them suggestions and guidelines, but don't expect such things to work as well for them as they do for me due to numerous reasons.


----------



## hamzatm

Competitive gamer just getting into high end headphones/sets, bought a used and very old pair of DT770 professional 80ohms and ran them through my Auzentech X-fi Forte. Personally I found that for some reason they weren't especially clear or transparent,  I'm not sure what it was but they were kinda murky-ish. I thought the Forte amp could drive them but maybe not (the volume is way loud enough from the Forte though). That said the positioning on them is fantastic! I think the problem is that they are really old. I got fed up with them looking so old and ugly, and thats colouring my judgement of the sound, which is crazy but whatever -  and which is why i'm now in this thread!
   
  ANYWHOO, I decided to 'upgrade' to something that would pick up details and sound more clear in my games, without losing any directional/positional accuracy (and also look decent!). I read through the first post as well as the AVS forum post by MLE (awesome person) and think that the K701 and HD598 would be just what i'm looking for, but they are out of my budget. DT880 and 990 are also kinda too expensive.
   
  I can get new PC360s for £80, or I can get burned in K601s for the same price. Is the K601 as good as the K701? I would only run them through my X-fi Forte sound card. Which one sounds better for my needs? An attached mic and the volume control etc on the PC360s is attractive, but I read in many places that the PC360s sound muffled and not clear? Im not sure if thats true but it would ruin my day. Another possibility is HD555/558 (modded to the 595/598) and to be honest I'm just confused. Actually I would go for the PC360s but some dude said the HD555/595 is actually clearer and not the same and its pissing me off.
   
  Basically I'm after something that sounds fantastic in games for a decent price (under £100 or thereabouts) and it doesnt have to be new! Ebay is fine. Bass is good but i dont want it drowning out clarity, but also bear in mind that i can equalise the sound on my sound card so... yeah. Positioning should be comparable to the DT770s. Most important is I want to be blown away... but that seems like a bit too much to ask 
   
  Thanks! Also I dont care about music in this purchase at all -  these are dedicated gaming beasts, with maybe a bit of movies but meh.
   
  Edit: Mainly play MW3 on PC at a high level. Prior to the DT770s footsteps were all but unhearable, but with the DT770s I can hear them like a wallhack even with other stuff going on - thats one thing i dont want to change!


----------



## GigaFi

Can anyone put up some footage of MW3 with and without digital surround?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





gigafi said:


> Can anyone put up some footage of MW3 with and without digital surround?


 


  I COULD do that, but at the moment I cant persuade FRAPS to record my audio at all - I think its a codec issue


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I wrote a PC gaming audio guide, but I only have so many sound cards and so much money to buy sound cards with for the sole purpose of reviewing.
> 
> Needless to say, I can't write something tailored to every sound card in existence right now. Most of my knowledge is concentrated on X-Fi cards, not anything with a C-Media chip or even those Recon3D cards with the Sound Core3D DSP.
> 
> And as far as CMSS-3D Headphone vs. Dolby Headphone is concerned, I prefer the former just because DH can't use the 3D positional information DirectSound3D and OpenAL games offer to provide proper binaural sound with height cues instead of virtual 7.1, but it does seem to skew the sound signature more. (Rapture3D's implementation may be even better than both for all I know, but I can't get the DiRT 2 "Game" version to switch to headphone mode to test it out with, and I don't want to pay up for the "User" version just to find out that it suffers from the same problem.)


 


  Set windows sound to stereo and set the Rapture 3D speaker layout (a separate executable from DiRT 2) to headphone stereo compatibility mode.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> Competitive gamer just getting into high end headphones/sets, bought a used and very old pair of DT770 professional 80ohms and ran them through my Auzentech X-fi Forte. Personally I found that for some reason they weren't especially clear or transparent,  I'm not sure what it was but they were kinda murky-ish. I thought the Forte amp could drive them but maybe not (the volume is way loud enough from the Forte though). That said the positioning on them is fantastic! I think the problem is that they are really old. I got fed up with them looking so old and ugly, and thats colouring my judgement of the sound, which is crazy but whatever -  and which is why i'm now in this thread!
> ANYWHOO, I decided to 'upgrade' to something that would pick up details and sound more clear in my games, without losing any directional/positional accuracy (and also look decent!). I read through the first post as well as the AVS forum post by MLE (awesome person) and think that the K701 and HD598 would be just what i'm looking for, but they are out of my budget. DT880 and 990 are also kinda too expensive.
> I can get new PC360s for £80, or I can get burned in K601s for the same price. Is the K601 as good as the K701? I would only run them through my X-fi Forte sound card. Which one sounds better for my needs? An attached mic and the volume control etc on the PC360s is attractive, but I read in many places that the PC360s sound muffled and not clear? Im not sure if thats true but it would ruin my day. Another possibility is HD555/558 (modded to the 595/598) and to be honest I'm just confused. Actually I would go for the PC360s but some dude said the HD555/595 is actually clearer and not the same and its pissing me off.
> Basically I'm after something that sounds fantastic in games for a decent price (under £100 or thereabouts) and it doesnt have to be new! Ebay is fine. Bass is good but i dont want it drowning out clarity, but also bear in mind that i can equalise the sound on my sound card so... yeah. Positioning should be comparable to the DT770s. Most important is I want to be blown away... but that seems like a bit too much to ask
> ...


 
  If the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm are not getting enough "juice", they can sound "murky-ish" or crude bass.
  Is there a headphone gain setting for the X-Fi Forte, something that you can set to one setting higher?
  Upgrade the op-amp on the forte?
  Sennheiser PC360s for 80GBPs ($127 US) is a great price, in the USA the PC360s are going for 125GBP ($200 US).
  And the PC360 comes with an integrated mic.
  AKG K601s (120-Ohm), they might(?) be harder for the Forte to drive then the DT770 Pro (80-Ohm).
  I think most would agree that AKGs like a little more juice to sound their best.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT770 Pro 80 sounded murky to me with games that had anything resembling some ambient bass. I haven't used them in ages, but I'd guess that in Mass Effect 3, being on the Normandy would be quite muddy sounding on the 770/80s.


----------



## Danthrax

I still don't believe in dolby headphone, in all of those I could hear where the shots were coming from (in fact it was clearer without it) using q701s and an iBasso D7.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In all those except DH, I could hear where the shots were coming from, in a 2D line from between my ears. That's it.

With DH, I could clearly tell whether the shots were coming from in a full 360 degree field.

So while you don't believe in DH, I certainly don't believe in basic stereo.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 sounded murky to me with games that had anything resembling some ambient bass. I haven't used them in ages, but I'd guess that in Mass Effect 3, being on the Normandy would be quite muddy sounding on the 770/80s.


 

 Maybe the AKG K601 would be a better choice then the DT770s?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Is the sound on mw3 nerfed so bad that even an expensive headphone won't help? I played cod4 with the x1's in stereo and mw2 with the x41's and they were absolutely brilliant. Nobody ever crept on on me unless they had dead silence. But mw3 is a different story. I'm finding it extremely hard to position sounds and footsteps don't really become audible unless they are very close, whereas in the previous cods, I could hear people from quite a distance. I'm using HTF600's and x41 atm and they both don't help/. Had some Senn 558's for a while (unmodded) and they didn't help either.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





phos said:


> Set windows sound to stereo and set the Rapture 3D speaker layout (a separate executable from DiRT 2) to headphone stereo compatibility mode.


 

 I tried that already. It doesn't work, because it's stuck on stereo _speakers_ instead and won't let me switch to headphones...
   
  ...wait, now it DOES work. What gives? Could be that I thought to update Rapture3D itself, could be that I'm on an X-Fi Titanium HD now instead of the Prelude or Forte.
   
  Now it's time to experiment with it...at least in DiRT 2. Would be nice if I could get the bundled version to work in other games, but 30 GBP is just too much with the exchange rate as it is. It would be an easier sell if they also included a DirectSound3D-to-OpenAL wrapper and the ability to process up to EAX 5 in software.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Axel, I see from the profile that you have the Mixamp already, do you own the X-Fi HD or is that going to be a future purchase? If you haven't picked it up yet and want to see how the mixamp can handle gaming on the PC cheaply, I use the Turtle Beach Micro II with my laptop and the Mixamp on the go. I know there are better USB to optical connections out there, but I'm impressed with how nice it sounds for the price. I got mine around $25 shipped. Just something to consider. Most of the time a built in PCI or PCI-E card will give you better quality over the same connection.


 


  I should think up a nickname for you and you should to me as well.  How does Axelo sound (cause you got an o in your name)?  Has a nice ring to it =P,
   
  *AHEM* Anyway.  I forgot to update my profile about that.  For now though I'm just focused on console gaming for now, so yeah it'll be a future purchase later on.  (Besides my wallet would cry, taking into consideration with what I already am lining up for purchasing heh)
   
  I have an idea of of what it's like to use the mixamp on the PC, it's cause I bought this years ago (understand years ago means I didn't know any better lol)
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829118109
   
  At the time I just wanted a sound card thinking it could improve something that and because I wanted to use the toslink of the Mixamp, the reviews stated that the drivers provided by TB weren't good.  But the ones from HT Omega for the Striker 7.1 Drivers gave great results for this sound card.
  http://www.htomega.com/downloads.html
   
  My own tweaking here and there produced pleasant results to my ears.  I'm not sure if my settings were the correct or right way, but the sound I heard coupled with the Astro A40 set via Toslink still made it sound alot better than some random $5 headphone I used to have.  in any case I appreciate the suggestions Axelo.
   
  @PFG : Well all the best with your test results and findings on that then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rayleighsilvers said:


> Is the sound on mw3 nerfed so bad that even an expensive headphone won't help? I played cod4 with the x1's in stereo and mw2 with the x41's and they were absolutely brilliant. Nobody ever crept on on me unless they had dead silence. But mw3 is a different story. I'm finding it extremely hard to position sounds and footsteps don't really become audible unless they are very close, whereas in the previous cods, I could hear people from quite a distance. I'm using HTF600's and x41 atm and they both don't help/. Had some Senn 558's for a while (unmodded) and they didn't help either.




You can't soundwhore in MW3 like in the previous games. I'm sure they did that to balance the gameplay out, so others who don't have headphones feel gimped. They seriously ruined the audio in the game.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Never played a CoD game online so... how does making rooms/lobby whatever work?  Can they have specific titles?  I imagine a workaround to making it *balanced* is people can specify the room to not have soundwhore-ers.  (Course this is only effective if the player in question is honest about it)  Rather than having them gimp the audio as you're saying.
   
  And ugh no matter what button/info I click on I can't hyperlink any web address I put.
   
  Doing it manually usually is like this -insert text-


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 sounded murky to me with games that had anything resembling some ambient bass. I haven't used them in ages, but I'd guess that in Mass Effect 3, being on the Normandy would be quite muddy sounding on the 770/80s.


 

 Not true for me (bear in mind I'm using them well amped off an E17 with CMSS rather than a Mixamp/DH)


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You can't soundwhore in MW3 like in the previous games. I'm sure they did that to balance the gameplay out, so others who don't have headphones feel gimped. They seriously ruined the audio in the game.


 
  Agree totally, and IMO the difference between amazing headphones with cmss-3d, and not-so-amazing headphones was for me clearly noticeable. The DT770s positioning allowed me to soundwhore but only at pretty close range .
  
  Actually this subject really gets on my nerves, because Infinity Ward have made MW3 designed for the noobs to do well. There's little feedback for very high skilled players (you will do well, but not well enough in comparison to noobs, if we base it off skill alone). They removed soundwhoring, they put in all these deathstreaks and killstreaks (harrier-nuke camping mw2...) and other jazz like FMG9 akimbos etc. In comparison to COD1 or 2, now they were totally skill based.
   
  IW actually admitted to doing this.
   
   
  Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Not true for me (bear in mind I'm using them well amped off an E17 with CMSS rather than a Mixamp/DH)


 

 So the CMSS is from a cheap x-fi sound card and the e17 is via USB right? I may go this route but I feel a bit gimped sacrificing the expensive DAC circuitry on my Forte 
  Also regarding the amping power of the e17, any ideas how it would go if i used a lesser fiio amp with no DAC, like the lowly e6 or e11?
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm are not getting enough "juice", they can sound "murky-ish" or crude bass.
> Is there a headphone gain setting for the X-Fi Forte, something that you can set to one setting higher?
> Upgrade the op-amp on the forte?
> Sennheiser PC360s for 80GBPs ($127 US) is a great price, in the USA the PC360s are going for 125GBP ($200 US).
> ...


 
  Thanks, that explains it then. At least it isn't just me 
  Yeah PC360s are looking good but i'm worried about sound quality, is it something I should really care about?
  actually I may be able to trade the DT770 with a HD598 from some guy, fingers crossed 
 About the  K601 im leaning away now, I was contemplating that they would have the clarity of the K701s but after researching I'm not so sure.
   
  What I need to know now, is the PC360 seriously fine for gaming (cmss-3d through a Forte), that I shouldnt care about the HD598, if we only look at gaming and ignore music etc? Should I just get a cheap amp to assist the Forte in juicing my DT770s?
   
   
   
  Is it all in my head that I NEED THE SOUND QUALITEHHH or will I only attain true pleasure the best ******* headphones out there?
   
  Second thoughts maybe only I can answer that...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheisers tend to be boring. PC360 and HD598 included. However, the fact that they are boring, makes them well suited for general purposes, especially FPS gaming, where you want a very even sound, which the Senns tend to have.


----------



## AxelDaemon

That must be a unique way of describing balance.  "Boring" lol.  But then... would the Q701 be boring too? After all I'm after general purpose too or another way of wording it a balanced/even field, "playing it safe", all rounder headphone, though I'm willing to spend premium to get those conditions fulfilled.
   
  In any case here's hoping I can find a seller over here without resorting to crazy shipping rates.
   
  Edit: Man that's the 2nd time I've jacked first post of new page accidentley.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well no, balanced doesn't have to be boring, the Q701, DT880, HE-4 do this well for me.

However, if you've heard various Sennheisers, you might agree with me, that they aren't exactly 'alive' in comparison. They tend to just be... well balanced with no real personality. At least thats how I see them. Sennheisers don't do anything wrong. But they don't excite in any way either. They're a safe choice, because you get all the positional awareness you'd ever want, and no emphasis anywhere that may detract from that balance.

Of course, I'd recommend saving up a little more for headphones that do balance and still bring out some excitement. If I heard a well balanced headphone in the typical $170-200 range for the Sennheiser PC360/HD598 , and it had more excitement, I'd recommend it over the Senns. As it stands, for those that want really good virtual surround cues, a sound signature that picks up all details evenly, the Sennheisers are it. With EQ/Bass Boost, you can add your own excitement, which is what I did with the PC360 on the Mixamp 5.8.

I will be honest with you, I wouldn't EVER use any of the Senns for anything outside of competitive gaming. I hated them for music/movies. The K701 is also well balanced that I hated for music/movies, but are godly for gaming. If you have $250 to spend and want balance done well, I'd recommend the *Q701* everytime, though I'd have to say that they definitely need an amp for non-gaming purposes, and you may get away with using them on something like the Mixamp alone for gaming. Can't stress this enough.


----------



## Drastion

I was wondering about the power output of the mixamp pro. Does turning it towards voice take away more than just volume? My ears must be sensative due to babying them to much. I have to set I almost to completely voice just to be able to turn the volume to 12 o'clock.


Not such a problem with my q40. I am just wondering if I am loosing some of the amps power when I do something similar with my q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The game/voice knob to me definitely adds/takes away from it's amping power, and isn't just 'volume'. I noticed this because for example on a DT990/600, you may have enough power at full game, but once you move that knob away from game, volume takes a pretty steep dive, very quickly. This is why I recommend an extra amp for those hard to drive headphones. Volume is just one thing, but when you take away from fully powering your cans (you are redistributing some power to amplify voice volume), you're making the amp portion weaker.

edit: To add to this, After what seems to be a month and a half, I FINALLY got my Dealextreme clip-on mic. Never had to wait so long for a $3 product, lol. At least thing one didn't come with the clip snapped off the body. So now I can talk smack again!


----------



## hamzatm

About the boring = fpsMonstah vs exciting = other stuff: How would the DT880 premiums fare?
   
  If i forego the PC360s in favour of DT880s, what am i losing/gaining exactly?


----------



## Jodiuh

I am...quote man! No, really, my SSD died last week and I'm just getting around to the forums, lol!
   
  Quote:  





> Prior to the DT770s footsteps were all but unhearable, but with the DT770s I can hear them like a wallhack even with other stuff going on - thats one thing i dont want to change!


 
   
   
  Just wait to you try some Q701's w/ a tube amp. 

  
  Quote: 





danthrax said:


> I still don't believe in dolby headphone, in all of those I could hear where the shots were coming from (in fact it was clearer without it) using q701s and an iBasso D7.


 
   
  I like DH for movies. But for games, setting to 8, then headphone, w/ no other bells & whistles seems to give me the best positioning.
   
   

 

From Battlefield 3​
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 Pro 80 sounded murky to me with games that had anything resembling some ambient bass. I haven't used them in ages, but I'd guess that in Mass Effect 3, being on the Normandy would be quite muddy sounding on the 770/80s.


 
   
   
  I have the 250 Ohms from pre 2006, but I feel the same. They're too colored. I do prefer these for LAN's however as they're EXTREMELY broken in, super comfy, and closed. Too hard to hear w/ open phones w/ mates screaming in your face, lol!
  
   
  Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Not true for me (bear in mind I'm using them well amped off an E17 with CMSS rather than a Mixamp/DH)


 
   
   
  How does E17 compare w/ Little Dot MKIII? Admittedly, I didn't do a whole lot of research, but I did get to hear the LD before buying. That probably factored in the most. Coming from a MisterX built PIMETA that's almost 6 yrs old, I'm very happy.
   
  I used CMSS w/ my X-Fi's, then the Forte for the longest time. Then I heard a friend's Asus card wo/ CMSS and after much prodding, I conceded, and shut it off. Positioning suffered, but WOW, did sound quality go through the roof! Since then I've sold the Forte and use a DX. I briefly tried an STX, but didn't notice much difference. And despised it for turning off my line out's when selecting headphones (for Dolby Headphone).

  
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *hamzatm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> About the  K601 im leaning away now, I was contemplating that they would have the clarity of the K701s but after researching I'm not so sure.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  IMO, pass on both of those. A buddy of mine has the K701's and they did not impress me as much as his DT880's. He did however tell me that they improved dramatically w/ burn in. I did some research and found the Q701's @ Fry's. They were just a bit sloppier than I'd like, but MUCH better than the K701's, my HD580's, and DT770-250's. After about 20~25 hours of burn in, they have tightened up to the point, I'll probably never listen to the others. The Q's are more accurate and detailed w/ a larger soundstage. The Sennheiser's by comparison are...boring. The 770's...colored and muddy. This is through a Little Dot MKIII tube amp BTW.
  
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sennheisers tend to be boring.


 
   
   
  Yes they are, lol. More comfortable for gaming than the Q701's, but probably because mine are 8 yrs old. 

  
  Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> That must be a unique way of describing balance.  "Boring" lol.  But then... would the Q701 be boring too?


 
   
   
  Not at all...however, a lot of folks prefer the crazy bass bloat of some Ultrasones (I do not) or the V equalizer of the DT990's (I do not). I much prefer to hear everything equally. My first taste of this was w/ the Triple.Fi 10's. Then some KRK Rokit RP6G2's. The detail the Q's pull out's amazing and they work very well for gaming due to this. Of course their super wide soundstage helps too. 

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well no, balanced doesn't have to be boring, the Q701...do this well for me.
> However, if you've heard various Sennheisers, you might agree with me, that they aren't exactly 'alive' in comparison. They tend to just be... well balanced with no real personality. At least thats how I see them. Sennheisers don't do anything wrong. But they don't excite in any way either. They're a safe choice, because you get all the positional awareness you'd ever want, and no emphasis anywhere that may detract from that balance.





> If you have $250 to spend and want balance done well, I'd recommend the *Q701* everytime, though I'd have to say that they definitely need an amp for non-gaming purposes, and you may get away with using them on something like the Mixamp alone for gaming. Can't stress this enough.


 
   
   
  Agree 110%. I would go one step further and just keep what you have (770's), save up for the Q's and whatever amp seems to be the best for your purposes. Don't suffer for years like I did being bored to death, lol!


----------



## hamzatm

Wow thanks a lot Jodiuh!
   
  So in your opinion should I also skip the DT880s and save up solely for Q701s with an amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I might prefer the DT880s over the Q701 just a little bit for everything but FPS games. The DT880s just don't do rear positioning as well as I'd like. They are comparable though. The bass is similar. The difference FWIRemember is the mids are more emphasized on the Qs, and the DT880s have more treble emphasis.

They are both popular for a reason.


----------



## shorke

What DH setting do you recommend? My soundcard has DH1, DH2, and DH3. Or studio, cinema, and hall respectively. Here are the images in the sound card driver for each. http://imgur.com/a/9o79k


----------



## Rebel975

When I had a Xonar card I used DH1 or DH2. DH3 sounded way too 'huge'/echoey.


----------



## Mike96

Until i can get money for headphones to use for gaming most likely (Thinking of the Sennheiser PC360), any idea of how the Crossfade M-80s would sound?
  By the way, i know i found it in one of these threads but i can not find it again however it might be a different one for my TV, what type of RCA cable should i buy to connect wired headphones (like my M-80) to my Toshiba TV (Has a green, white, orange, blue and two red ports in the back)?


----------



## shorke

http://www.amazon.com/Stereo-Splitter-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter/dp/B0009JFF7A/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332288618&sr=1-2 Something like this should work, it sounds like your TV has component and I think it uses the same audio cables as normal old rca. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

shorke said:


> What DH setting do you recommend? My soundcard has DH1, DH2, and DH3. Or studio, cinema, and hall respectively. Here are the images in the sound card driver for each. http://imgur.com/a/9o79k




DH2 is what the DH amps use (Mixamp, AX720, etc), so that'd be what I'd use.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> Wow thanks a lot Jodiuh!
> 
> So in your opinion should I also skip the DT880s and save up solely for Q701s with an amp?


 
   
   
  I have only heard the DT990's and from what I've read, the 880's are the 990's, but without the V frequency graph, lol. If they're anything like the 770's the comfort level's probably through the roof too. I would definitely recommend an amp w/ either. It's probably a good idea to grab the 600 Ohm version of the 880 as well. Although, there's a big thread here w/ the difference between them. Either one will probably be great, but wo/ ever having heard the 880's, I can only defer too...

  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I might prefer the DT880s over the Q701 just a little bit for everything but FPS games. The DT880s just don't do rear positioning as well as I'd like. They are comparable though. The bass is similar. The difference FWIRemember is the mids are more emphasized on the Qs, and the DT880s have more treble emphasis.
> They are both popular for a reason.


 
   
   
  The Q's are the first cans I've owned to really emphasize mids. It's really, really nice to have vocals unmolested! I'll have to try the 880's someday.

  
  Quote: 





shorke said:


> What DH setting do you recommend? My soundcard has DH1, DH2, and DH3. Or studio, cinema, and hall respectively. Here are the images in the sound card driver for each. http://imgur.com/a/9o79k


 
   
   
  DH1, because...


  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> When I had a Xonar card I used DH1 or DH2. DH3 sounded way too 'huge'/echoey.


 
   
   
  of this.


----------



## Phos

The different dolby headphone settings are just the amount of reverb, DH1 has none, DH2 has some, and DH3 has more.


----------



## iEnzo

PC user. Finally bought my audiophile headphone (waiting for shipment should arrive this week).
   
  Tested: My experience playing games + movies for testing
   
  DT770 Premium (The treble is good but bass is prominent for me. I would say suited better for movies + music)
  DT880 Premium (For me this one had better soundstage but when gaming I tend to find it a bit hard to garner positioning also I tend to get caught up by the bass moments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  DT990 Premium (not available that day 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  HD598 (Tested this and fell in love with it right away. No matter what the salesperson tried to sell me told him I had found my baby. Soundstage and positioning was so easy when playing games. Movies + music was so bloody clear and just enough bass especially when powered with a good amp/dac/soundcard. I'm not a bass head so balanced bass is music to my ears.)
  PC360 (I really wanted these as they had a mic included. Sadly tested the HD598 and it just couldn't compare to it in clarity. If you really need one with a mic this is perfect & close to the HD598)
  Samson Meteor Mic AKA Reaper Mic http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/meteormic/ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (Mic clarity was astonishing. Tried chatting on Skype and Ventrilo friends right away were saying I sounded way better than my Steelseries 7H headphone. Head out to YouTube to check on clarity tests.)
   
  Now on to the last stage: (Gaming/Music/Movies)
  It's easier for me to get the DSS2 than the Mixamp where I live. Are they both comparable to each other or is the Mixamp superior?
  My question would be do I still need a soundcard?
  Between the STX Essence & Titanium HD which is preferable. Is there a better soundcard I may be missing out?
   
  Thanks everyone for helping get my ideal setup


----------



## Phos

On the PC I think a soundcard is the better option vs the mixamp style device, unless you plan on using it on consoles as well.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I haven't tried any of those headphones, so I can't comment there.
   
  But between the X-Fi Titanium HD and Xonar Essence STX or any other non-X-Fi card, you're going to be losing out on a lot of gaming features (mostly DirectSound3D/OpenAL-centric, though) on non-X-Fi hardware, so that naturally makes me lean toward the X-Fi Titanium HD.
   
  You might want to read my PC gaming audio guide sections on APIs and middleware, as well as binaural audio technologies (to compare CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone). If your games of choice only use software-processed audio, then it's just a matter of comparing the two binaural surround filters.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Hrm I know I read it before but I might as well double check on it.
   
  The appropriate setup for using the Mixamp with any other amp included which in this case the Fiio E9 for a headPHONE for say the PS3 is.
   
  Source > Toslink > Mixamp > 3.5mm to 3.5 from Mixamp package > Fiio E9 > headphone
   
  I think that's it right?  Now it's a different story if you want to use a mic in this setup though right?  (Whether it's a headSET or a headphone witha velcroed/double sided taped to the headphone.)
   
  Source > Toslink > Mixamp > 3.5 to y splitter from Mixamp package > E9 > headphone/set
       ^   < 3.5mm to 3.5mm (for PC)  <   ^ connect mic part respectively      <      v 3.5mm of of the mic
   
  That do it?  For the PS3 specifically 2011 versions have the mic audio pass through the USB so that's a plus.
   
  @iEnzo : -amazons meteor mic-  Now that's the prettiest looking mic if I've ever seen one. Though ya know.  My friend borrowing my whole Astro A40 set, I heard his voice.... it was pretty damn clear.  Now that mic alone costs $20 (not that I'm suggesting you get it cause it's the mic attachment to a headphone) so I don't think you had to spend that much for just voice chatting, but hey if this makes you sound like you're sitting right next to them, then more power to you, though this adds a bunch of other things you can do to it, so you probably bought it for more than just that maybe?lol
   
  I haven't looked around bout the DSS2, though as far as hissy noise is concerned though just to bring up, "Tritton AX720 was hissy from the get go so it was like a hissier Mixamp"
   
  The Mixamp only gets hissy with the volume dial going past 1oclock.  I suggest waiting for other inputs regarding this.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-15-2012-dolby-headphone-test-on-1st-post/4605 Here's some discussion about it though
  Lucky for you though is that even though it doesn't have a dedicated mic input.  You already got that Meteor Mic so you're covered.
   
  As for sound card... (Note: These are all just me repeating what other people have said, I haven't had the chance to personally use em)
   
  If you only do music. Essence STX, if you do gaming, use the X-Fi Titanium HD which is geared towards gaming combined with Creatives proprietary technology, X-FI HD still works for music anyhow.  Just supposedly the Essence STX has a little lead on the X-Fi Titanium HD when it comes to music, but its ability to process gaming audio was just as people said "add on at the end as an afterthought"
   
  BUT in the next few months a soundcard from Asus dedicated to gaming is coming out.
  http://rog.asus.com/62712012/news/rog-xonar-phoebus-soundcard-announced/
   
  Might be worth the wait to see what the input on this card will be?
   
  Edit: and the master informer beats me to it, then again I needed to post alot lol.
  @PFG: Actually when it does come out, did you have plans on checking out the Xonar Phoebus? and how the heck do you hyperlink (where you just have normal text, but it's clickable to provide a link.)  I'm only used to  format.
   
  Edit: Hey MLE I think you should start linking pages or specific posts that has insightful discussions to your main guide.  You don't have to be clean about it either just copy paste it to your guide for random people to click.  Else stuff like this will get lost over the next 50+ pages lol.


----------



## shorke

Alright, thanks for all the help and answers guys! DH1 or 2 it is, I will see which I like more when my Q701s get here!


----------



## iEnzo

Quote: 





phos said:


> On the PC I think a soundcard is the better option vs the mixamp style device, unless you plan on using it on consoles as well.


 
  I'm terabad with consoles 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. PC 4 life Mouse + Keyboard 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I haven't tried any of those headphones, so I can't comment there.
> 
> But between the X-Fi Titanium HD and Xonar Essence STX or any other non-X-Fi card, you're going to be losing out on a lot of gaming features (mostly DirectSound3D/OpenAL-centric, though) on non-X-Fi hardware, so that naturally makes me lean toward the X-Fi Titanium HD.
> 
> You might want to read my PC gaming audio guide sections on APIs and middleware, as well as binaural audio technologies (to compare CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone). If your games of choice only use software-processed audio, then it's just a matter of comparing the two binaural surround filters.


 

 I read your PC gaming audio guide awhile ago when deciding the headphones. Very strong points if one is gaming to go with the X-Fi Titanium HD. Seems to cover all the bases very well since I'll be delving into Gaming/Music/Movies. Let me check some VS with X-Fi Titanium HD & Essence STX or similiar cards to see the outcomes.
   
  Games of choice: (Multiplayer)
  Left4Dead 2
  Team Fortress 2
  Modern Warfare 3
  Dota 2
  Starcraft 2
  Diablo 3
   
  Campaign games sadly I have to be very picky as I can't pour so much time in completing them. Multiplayer is easier just play and forget. Single player always has me wanting to play without stop to uncover the plot or explore as much as possible.
   
  Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> @iEnzo : -amazons meteor mic-  Now that's the prettiest looking mic if I've ever seen one. Though ya know.  My friend borrowing my whole Astro A40 set, I heard his voice.... it was pretty damn clear.  Now that mic alone costs $20 (not that I'm suggesting you get it cause it's the mic attachment to a headphone) so I don't think you had to spend that much for just voice chatting, but hey if this makes you sound like you're sitting right next to them, then more power to you, though this adds a bunch of other things you can do to it, so you probably bought it for more than just that maybe?lol
> 
> I haven't looked around bout the DSS2, though as far as hissy noise is concerned though just to bring up, "Tritton AX720 was hissy from the get go so it was like a hissier Mixamp"
> 
> ...


 

 Meteor Mic not just for VOIP but for Podcasting because my friends like to post videos on YouTube. Other factor was when streaming Live games on Own3D. Lastly acting stupid when we have many people in one room shouting commands & blaspheming. Modmic would have been nice but had to order and wait for it to be delivered so I figured hell just get this.
   
  I agree with you wholeheartedly on the X-Fi Titanium HD & Essence STX points. Now gonna run through some reviews and check it out. You peaked my interest on the new Asus card but OMG I hope it's not going to have a delivery date like Diablo 3 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Roller

Due to Creative not having licensed most of their proprietary gaming audio techs, no soundcard can ever outperform X-Fi DSP powered cards, with the X-Fi Titanium HD being literally the best card available for gaming, and having SQ on par with the Asus Xonar Essence STX, meaning any soundcard Asus currently available and soon to be released will always be inferior to even regular X-Fi Titanium cards unless Asus pays Creative tech licensing fees.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> @PFG: Actually when it does come out, did you have plans on checking out the Xonar Phoebus? and how the heck do you hyperlink (where you just have normal text, but it's clickable to provide a link.)  I'm only used to  format.


 

 If you're using the WYSIWYG posting interface like I am, near the middle of the toolbar, you should see a globe icon with a chain below it with a "Link" tooltip. What I do is highlight the text I want to link, then click that and type in the URL in the window that opens, click OK, and it's done.
   
  As for the Xonar Phoebus, I'll check it out if someone would kindly lend me a card to test with. Otherwise, I don't see myself spending hundreds of dollars on sound cards just to test them, then selling off the ones I don't like at a loss. It's why I haven't tested the Recon3D cards already.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Otherwise, I don't see myself spending hundreds of dollars on sound cards just to test them, then selling off the ones I don't like at a loss. It's why I haven't tested the Recon3D cards already.


 


  Ugh, to think Creative had the stones to release a card that's both overpriced and underperforming when compared to their previous offering, it's appaling. The single reason why Recon3D cards have their current pricing is due to the "new" factor, when in fact a regular X-Fi Titanium (not talking about the Titanium HD) costs 2-3 times less and outperforms it in just about all scenarios.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> So the CMSS is from a cheap x-fi sound card and the e17 is via USB right? I may go this route but I feel a bit gimped sacrificing the expensive DAC circuitry on my Forte
> Also regarding the amping power of the e17, any ideas how it would go if i used a lesser fiio amp with no DAC, like the lowly e6 or e11?


 

 At the current moment I'm running the E17 off my TOSLINK out from the Creative card. My previous offbrand USB soundcard didn't have any kind of an optical in so that's why I came up with the USB hack. Honestly 75% of my audio output is HDMI to the Onkyo and then headphone out to the E17... I'm lazy like that.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roller said:


> Ugh, to think Creative had the stones to release a card that's both overpriced and underperforming when compared to their previous offering, it's appaling. The single reason why Recon3D cards have their current pricing is due to the "new" factor, when in fact a regular X-Fi Titanium (not talking about the Titanium HD) costs 2-3 times less and outperforms it in just about all scenarios.


 

 So I've heard, but I want to prove it beyond all doubt beyond testing it myself. I just don't want to spend $100+ to do so.
   
  Unfortunately, Creative is known for just buying out the competition and having rather deceptive market practices. Too bad they're the ones with all the good PC gaming audio tech in their iron grasp.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> So I've heard, but I want to prove it beyond all doubt beyond testing it myself. I just don't want to spend $100+ to do so.
> 
> Unfortunately, Creative is known for just buying out the competition and having rather deceptive market practices. Too bad they're the ones with all the good PC gaming audio tech in their iron grasp.


 


  What many people that are more gamers and less audiophiles don't realize, is that the present iteration of SoundCore 3D was never meant to be released for general desktop and laptop computers. Creative did so in hopes the SoundCore chip gets enough traction and popularity in order to start being used on mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets, which is why the computationally heavy tasks like OpenAL and in-game EAX effects are done in software while regular features such as multimedia EAX, THX effects and digital formats support is done in hardware. This new crop of cards is born to be used on mobile devices, but it's the computer users who suffer as guinea pigs from it.
   
  What's really needed is a new generation of cards (the long lost expected X-Fi 2) that uses the Titanium HD as a base to work from and improve on that.
   
  Considering the tight grasp Creative holds on the proprietary gaming techs, it makes one wonder if Auzentech made compromises or paid a hefty sum in order to have access to both a full blown X-Fi DSP and unlocked software as well.


----------



## Phos

What would an X-Fi 2 do that the current X-fi can't?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





phos said:


> What would an X-Fi 2 do that the current X-fi can't?


 


   
  I can't exactly predict what a (hopefully) future product might feature, but there were talks at the time of a redesigned X-Fi DSP that automatically cached audio data, as well as improved positional algorithms. But since this awful onboard audio chip disguised as soundcard was released, it will probably take at least a year if not more, to see something actually good come out from Creative. Good thing that there are still plenty of X-Fi DSPs around on real soundcards.


----------



## Jodiuh

You get CMSS3D and support for EAX 5 games (Like Bioshock).
   
  I didn't much care for BC2 out of my Xonar DX, but BF3 sounds fantastic and I do not miss my X-Fi based Forte @ all. Further, I didn't notice a difference between an STX and a DX. I'm willing to bet a DG would be fine too. So in my incredibly biased opinion, get a $30 sound card and spend the rest on cans/amp. At least that's where I noticed the biggest sound quality changes!


----------



## Roller

You realize we are talking about an unreleased product right? CMSS3D exists since Audigy cards and EAX 5 appeared with the first gen X-Fi cards.
   
  What I find amusing is that the lowest current X-Fi card can outclass an Essence STX for gaming purposes lol.


----------



## Jodiuh

In what way? CMSS3D destroys sound quality and EAX 5.0 is used in what new games? Positioning in BF3 is top notch on a Xonar.
   
  I suppose if sound quality is no concern, then the X-Fi might be the better choice. But I think that's 5% of the people reading this thread, no?


----------



## Roller

Apparently you don't know what you're talking about.
   
  First, CMSS3D is a Creative feature, not present on Asus cards. Second, it's amusing to see that positioning in BF3 is top notch on an unknown Asus Xonar card, because from your point of view they must all sound the same. If you don't know the differences a X-Fi DSP does, then good for you, but gaming certainly benefits from one.
   
  This is a gaming thread, but if you're talking about SQ, good luck on having any (internal) Asus Xonar card outclass a Titanium HD.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys should really be talking about this on the PC thread (linked on first page).


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





roller said:


> Apparently you don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> First, CMSS3D is a Creative feature, not present on Asus cards. Second, it's amusing to see that positioning in BF3 is top notch on an unknown Asus Xonar card, because from your point of view they must all sound the same. If you don't know the differences a X-Fi DSP does, then good for you, but gaming certainly benefits from one.
> 
> This is a gaming thread, but if you're talking about SQ, good luck on having any (internal) Asus Xonar card outclass a Titanium HD.


 

 I'm aware it's a Creative only feature. The DX...unknown? I had the original X-Fi, the Fatal1ty, the Elite Pro, and a Forte. I'm well aware of how it sounds in say...Bioshock. Or when using CMSS3D w/ MacroFX and Elevation filter set to on in BC2/BF3. It's pretty darn good, but the sound quality takes a major dive IMO.
   
  I wouldn't mind testing the Titanium HD. Have you heard the STX? How do they compare? I'm a bit reluctant to go back to Creative due to their clunky control panel. IMO, the Asus'  much easier to deal w/. I can change everything on one screen wo/ changing modes and waiting...


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> I'm aware it's a Creative only feature. The DX...unknown? I had the original X-Fi, the Fatal1ty, the Elite Pro, and a Forte. I'm well aware of how it sounds in say...Bioshock. Or when using CMSS3D w/ MacroFX and Elevation filter set to on in BC2/BF3. It's pretty darn good, but the sound quality takes a major dive IMO.
> 
> I wouldn't mind testing the Titanium HD. Have you heard the STX? How do they compare? I'm a bit reluctant to go back to Creative due to their clunky control panel. IMO, the Asus'  much easier to deal w/. I can change everything on one screen wo/ changing modes and waiting...


 

  
  If you weren't using CMSS3D, the sound quality wouldn't take a dive, but then again both CMSS3D and DH do it to the sound, it just feels awfully artificial IMO.
   
  I don't really like the STX sound, too harsh and treble happy for me, while the Titanium HD is more neutral with a gentle warmth to it, and since I prefer warmer over colder/brighter, the choice is easy.
   
  I do understand what you mean about the control panel, but my quarrel with it is more it being bloat rather than unusable. It's no Audigy or SB Live! control panel, but still usable.
  About switching modes, ever since both a third party and Creative down the line made available an auto mode switcher, that's not much of a concern, especially if you have the exact settings you like on each mode.
   
  If Creative had the entire feature set configuration available to Creative Audio Control Panel rather than the Console Launcher, I'd be a happy man, as the former is straight to the point without visual fluff while the latter has more eye candy.


----------



## Eric_C

Coming back to *console gaming:*
  I just got me some HD 600s. Am not expecting much from them gaming wise, and it's only been 2 days (thus burn-in may still need to occur), but I want to give them a spin on the MixAmp tonight. Mass Effect 3 single player, here I come. 
  I'll report back on any findings.


----------



## AxelDaemon

After some asking around here and there, I'm getting the Q701 sometime in April.  Here's hoping I get my mind blown away when I receive them.  (Then again I need to ship my PS3, and a new mixamp and my stuff over here while I'm waiting too lol)


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





roller said:


> If you weren't using CMSS3D, the sound quality wouldn't take a dive, but then again both CMSS3D and DH do it to the sound, it just feels awfully artificial IMO.
> 
> I don't really like the STX sound, too harsh and treble happy for me, while the Titanium HD is more neutral with a gentle warmth to it, and since I prefer warmer over colder/brighter, the choice is easy.
> 
> ...


 

 Artificial's a great way to describe both of them. I'm ok w/ DH for movies, but not for games.
   
  Interesting about the Tit HD being warmer...I tried to grab one from BB when it was $50, but missed out.
   
  The Creative software needs a one stop shop and the mode switching needs to go, lol! When that happens, I'll try it out again.
   
   
  Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> After some asking around here and there, I'm getting the Q701 sometime in April.  Here's hoping I get my mind blown away when I receive them.  (Then again I need to ship my PS3, and a new mixamp and my stuff over here while I'm waiting too lol)


 
   
  What headphones are you coming from?


----------



## AxelDaemon

Astro A40? -COUGHS-
   
  Edit: Well little backstory again, Astro A40 set was my first serious purchase when I didn't know any better about the headphone world.  With a decent soundcard some tweaks in the EQ and what not, it did sound great to my ears.  Past that though I don't have any reference to some real premium headphones.  So after talking to MLE and so on, they recommended to me to try out the Q701 for the balance it offers and being a great all rounder headphone that I can "play it safe" with.


----------



## Jodiuh

Not familiar w/ those. Do you have an amp for the Q701's? Is that the Mixamp? What is that?


----------



## AxelDaemon

Not entirely sure what you mean when you say you're unfamiliar but, astrogaming.com is also like Turtlebeach etc in that they market on "gaming headsets".  What's featured usually is the headset (A40) and the Mixamp which is a DAC Amp (am I saying that right? newb to terminology still), which together costs $250, which actually has a discount to it since separately the headphones cost $200, while the Mixamp is $130.
   
  Now the Mixamp provides a multitude of options on how to hook up your audio.  (Actually just about every connection save for 3.5mm setups for 5.1, which you can just do through Coaxial or Toslink) and is held with high regard in the forums here (with maybe some naysayers I suppose lol).  Least you'll see MLE and everyone in this topic vouch for it.  On top of that and it's something I didn't think of, you can also make the Mixamp a hub if you end up using most of the inputs for one thing after another (credit to ninjikiran for telling me that).  It's got a master volume dial which unfortunately starts hissing at/past 1 oclock.  It's also got a tinier nob that handles the channels between the source volume and your mic volume.  Going left or right more provides more amp for that side while reducing the other.  It's also the only DAC Amp to natively provide you dolby headphone at the touch of a button.  (Maybe?)
   
  The headset, well it suffers from "It's nice, but at that price range there's alot of headphones/headsets that can blow it out of the water and even cheaper ones" syndrome lol.  Mic clarity is REALLY good though.
   
  And I just keep blabbering on.
   
  Though bollocks, the one computer parts store that's actually up to date on technology compared to every OTHER store (GTS 8800 anyone?) only has Asus sound cards stocked in their store, and either stopped selling Creative cards all together or will stock at a later date.
   
  Though I'm still debating on what soundcard to get honestly.  Heck I wonder how Auzuntech is doing lately, weren't they the first and only group to have gotten Creative's proprietary technology?  Then there's HT Omega.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> Artificial's a great way to describe both of them. I'm ok w/ DH for movies, but not for games.
> 
> Interesting about the Tit HD being warmer...I tried to grab one from BB when it was $50, but missed out.
> 
> The Creative software needs a one stop shop and the mode switching needs to go, lol! When that happens, I'll try it out again.


 


  DH for movies is ok, but I find its effect fatiguing after half an hour of listening. I usually set a very slight, almost imperceptible, Theatre EAX preset between -18 and -12dB.
   
  You missed an amazing deal, that price really isn't something you see easily.
   
  Apparently Creative can't make up their mind if they want to focus on accuracy or eye candy, with different users for each area. And no, I don't find the Asus control panel particularly pleasant to use, looks quite cheap tbh.
   
  I never understood why the X-Fi DSP had to switch modes rather than having a single operation mode that encompassed all available operations on each chip version. I've pondered if it was power related, as in the card drawing more power than a soundcard usually does, but that's not really the case as the power differences are little over 10W, and the idea of overcomplicating hardware operations to set themselves apart from the competition makes no sense. But at the time the first X-Fi generation surfaced, Creative and E-MU were still very tied together and the flagship first gen X-Fi cards had far higher performance than both regular and flagship second gen X-Fi cards (excluding the Titanium HD), so it could've been a way to separate consumer from prosumer markets, perhaps.


----------



## Jodiuh

Screw audio, Nvidia released the 680 today! Wooooooooooooooooo!


----------



## Phos

It's because the DSP needs to be reconfigured. The hardware resources are allocated in different ways in different modes.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> Screw audio, Nvidia released the 680 today! Wooooooooooooooooo!


 


  So I've heard. I'm more eager about the fresh WHQL driver that's adding a couple nifty features as well as long overdue TDR fixes.


  Quote: 





phos said:


> It's because the DSP needs to be reconfigured. The hardware resources are allocated in different ways in different modes.


 


  There's no real reason why that can't be done on the fly. And if specific apps require specific features, Creative could've just used a profile system akin to Nvidia's.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





roller said:


> So I've heard. I'm more eager about the fresh WHQL driver that's adding a couple nifty features as well as long overdue TDR fixes.


 
   
  Oooh...I hope it lets my card drop to 2D clocks/volts when running dual monitors like the 680! Also, FWIW, I had EVGA RMA a 560 Ti twice and never got rid of those issues. Finally, got them to give me a refund and picked up one of those triple fan (Arctic Cooling style) Galaxy 580's. Haven't had a single driver crash since...go figure. But yes, I'm placing the blame squarely on the 560 Ti seeing as Nv even asked for them to bug check!


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> Oooh...I hope it lets my card drop to 2D clocks/volts when running dual monitors like the 680! Also, FWIW, I had EVGA RMA a 560 Ti twice and never got rid of those issues. Finally, got them to give me a refund and picked up one of those triple fan (Arctic Cooling style) Galaxy 580's. Haven't had a single driver crash since...go figure. But yes, I'm placing the blame squarely on the 560 Ti seeing as Nv even asked for them to bug check!


 


  You picked a good card to replace the GTX 560Ti, both chip version and brand.
   
  There has been some controversy over side effects that new power management tweaks from by Nvidia since 275.xx drivers have done to some cards, regardless of series, which is why it's responsible to let new drivers be out in the wild for some time, as users will soon report any undesired behaviors. Unless you want to be a guinea pig 

 The new series does indeed promote improved Powermizer settings on both single and multimonitor setups, so you should be able to have automatic clock and voltage adjustments on your dual monitor setup.
   
  My only question about the new drivers so far is if the new TXAA feature advertised for 600 series cards will also be ported to 500 series and below. After all, 16x MSAA image quality at the performance cost of ~4x MSAA sounds rather appealing


----------



## Jodiuh

Who cares! Buy a 680!


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> Who cares! Buy a 680!


 


  You crazy? Either go quad SLI or go home


----------



## Indread

So I've got an update on the Turtle Beach DSS2's. I wouldn't trust what some individuals are saying on Amazon.com; they seem more confused than I was.
   
  I contacted Turtle Beach, and they stated the new DSS2 is no longer using Dolby Headphone processing, but their own algorithm. Which explains the lack of 7.1 or 5.1 reference on their advertising. I have no clue if their processing is as good as DH, and it's hard to find any comparisons since it's relatively new...
   
  That's all I got.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





indread said:


> So I've got an update on the Turtle Beach DSS2's. I wouldn't trust what some individuals are saying on Amazon.com; they seem more confused than I was.
> 
> I contacted Turtle Beach, and they stated *the new DSS2 is no longer using Dolby Headphone processing, but their own algorithm*. Which explains the lack of 7.1 or 5.1 reference on their advertising. I have no clue if their processing is as good as DH, and it's hard to find any comparisons since it's relatively new...
> 
> That's all I got.


 


  What?  That's no good.  I doubt TB could beat Dolby Headphone for DSP algorithms.  Sounds like Turtle Beach may have had licensing issues with Dolby...


----------



## spoonstar

I guess I'm glad that I didn't go with previous experience with older Turtle Beach cards when looking for a new one. Their track record with me has been exemplary before, but, as you said chicolom, I'm not so sure Turtle Beach's DSP algorithms would cut it with me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... perhaps I'll have to try the DSS2 at some point, to see how it stacks up to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Eric_C

HD 600 on a MixAmp:
  Mix--fully on "Game"
  Volume--about 1 o'clock
   
  Tested on Mass Effect 3 (campaign), running around Citadel and a short, indoors side mission.
   
  Dialogue was fine; speech was perfectly intelligible, always. This included when I hit the nightclub on Citadel; bass was nice and thumping but I could still make out all of the speech with dialogue trees, and most of it when eavesdropping on NPCs. 
   
  Jumping mass effect relays produced a satisfying "THOOM", but I did hear a crackle just prior to making the jump--is this part of the intended SFX?
   
  Positional audio was okay. I could detect well enough when shots were fired 'somewhere' behind me, and during dialogue sequences I _think_ the 6 o'clock was a bit clearer than on my DT880. Could more or less tell when people were further away, but since this isn't a sneaky game, positional audio only comes into play in all-out firefights. 
   
  Combat took place in the same type of environment as the talky bits, so there was no audible difference in the _way _stuff sounded (e.g. in an echo-y chamber vs in a small room).
   
  It was overall an okay experience, nothing to complain or write home about. 600 was a bit clampy, but it is 3 days new...


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





roller said:


> You crazy? Either go quad SLI or go home


 
   
  ***Pushing the limits of OT***
   
  Look what I found @ Fry's...


----------



## AxelDaemon

I'm more curious as to what price tag did you have to pay for that.  Or this is you at Fry's just taking a picture of the box?


----------



## Jodiuh

$550, but they're cool about price matching. Told me to come back within 30 days w/ just the receipt.
   
  I prefer to buy locally whenever possible as I'm a pretty discerning user. For instance, the noise from this card is much greater than my previous Galaxy GTX 580 w/ the 3 92mm fans. Although, it's only noticeable when gaming and headphones/speakers would drown it right out.
   
  Just to give you an idea of performance per watt...
   
  Dirt 3 Benchmark 1680x1050 8xMSAA Ultra
   
  GTX 580 @ 900Mhz Core 4400Mhz Memory 1.1Volts
  103 Avg, 89 Min
   
  GTX 680 @ stock speeds 
  121 Avg, 103 Min
   
  But the big shocker? 680 is pulling One Hundred and Six watts LESS than the 580 from the wall!!!
   
  ***Sorry for so much off topic guys***


----------



## Roller

The noise is understandable due to reference design and cooling, while the Galaxy GTX 580 has both modified design and cooling.
   
  Nvidia went with improving performance per watt metrics, and ended up having a card that's both more quiet, with lower temps, lower power draw, both idling and under load, as well as outperforming the AMD competing flaship, HD7970, in all aspects including price that is matched. Overall, it's the best single GPU card available right now.


----------



## Jodiuh

CPU temps are down over 10 C though. That Galaxy spits out all the heat right on my 2600K, lol. Kinda of nice to have the heat split up again. Also, case and hdd temps went down too. This probably means I can get away w/ adding a controller to the SFLEX E's and lower them from 1200 to 800 RPM or so!


----------



## our martin

i am waiting for the amd 7990s to come out and i will be using two with the new ivy bridge..p.s i seen in your profile you like running and are thinking about mountain biking.. check this bike out it's very light and looks nice..


----------



## Jodiuh

I've got a Jamis Dakar Sport from 2006, so full squishy. Although, it's been a LONG time since I've been riding, hurt my achilles tendon. :/
   
  Sweet dirt jumper though!


----------



## our martin

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> I've got a Jamis Dakar Sport from 2006, so full squishy. Although, it's been a LONG time since I've been riding, hurt my achilles tendon. :/
> 
> Sweet dirt jumper though!


 


 i have a 2011 marin downhill quad it's a professional bike but i don't ride that much..the orange miii is super light and i think i will be getting one for riding through central park..i live in england but have an apartment at central park west..well that's my excuse to buy it anyway..


----------



## hamzatm

Dt880 premium 250ohm vs Sennhesier HD598 in gaming.
   
  Your thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DT880 by a mile, unless FPS gaming is a priority.

Again guys, talk about that PC related stuff on the PC thread.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Lifehacker's doing a Hive Five on headsets with attached microphones.
   
  Distressingly, most of the headsets voted for are not Sennheiser PC360s or Beyerdynamic MMX300s...not that I've tried either, but I'd certainly trust those more than most "gaming" headsets you see mentioned in there.
   
  Perhaps it's a good time to make sure the good headsets make it into the top 5?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm willing to bet that the Senns and MMX300 wouldn't be popular because they don't have 'OMG BASS'. Remember, life outside of Head-fi tends to prefer bass emphasis. Typical consumers wouldn't typically like the Senns or the MMX300s (which are apparently bass light as of late).

I like my bass plentiful, though not on a headset.

I can't say I comletely blame ignorance, as if I only had ONE pair of headphones/headset, it'd have to be good for my taste in music too, so bass emphasis would be something I'd go for myself. However, since I can't see myself with just ONE headphone for absolutely everything, I'll pick a balanced headset, and a bassy headphone.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I thought it was because they weren't as heavily marketed as all of those "gaming" headsets...well, that and price.
   
  As for "OMG BASS", I almost forgot about that...can't say I'm very fond of everyone's general obsession with bass while ignoring mids and treble, especially when they drive down the road and I can still hear the thumping in my house several feet away and through the walls. I mean, rumbling, cavernous explosions are nice, but I like crystal-clear voices and instruments, too.
   
  I even once heard about some cheesy "gaming" headset that had a built-in rumble motor that vibrated whenever bass notes were playing. Yes, really.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, my bass preference is towards sub bass, which is more omnipresent, but not as immediately obtrusive as the thunder bass cannons that typical consumers like. I like ambient rumble, not so much the actual thumping. That's why I love the D7000 so much. The low end is incredibly powerful, but the actual impact is more or less in line with the mids and treble. So it doesn't pound senselessly your head, but fills the room with some theater like bass, while maintaiing the lovely vocals and sparkle on the top end. 

I think this is where headsets need to focus on when it comes to bass. Sub bass is infinitely less obtrusive to the rest of the spectrum compared to mid bass, so they should emphasize that, instead of the actual thump. It's a sort of 'loophole' for bassheads that want clarity everywhere else. Of course, if you just want consitent headpounding, then I guess you can enjoy that obtrusive mid bass, while sacrificing vocals and overall clarity.


----------



## GigaFi

I just got my Siberia V2 in today and they are...surprisingly decent!
   
  Build is bad, isolation is bad, but sound is so far so good.


----------



## hamzatm

ooh, I was actually gonna get Siberia V2's at one point, because some pro gamer said they were the best he had ever used.
   
  If you can compare them to any well known gaming headphones that would be awesome!


----------



## hamzatm

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DT880 by a mile, unless FPS gaming is a priority.
> Again guys, talk about that PC related stuff on the PC thread.


 


  Lol the thread was cruising from graphics cards to mountain bikes to god knows what!
   
  Anyway I was slightly confused because in your gaming headphones thread over at AVS you mention the HD598s in the elite range, but there's no talk of any Beyers (at least on the first page) - is that because the Beyers aren't very gaming focused due to heavy bass n stuff when not equalised?


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm willing to bet that the Senns and MMX300 wouldn't be popular because they don't have 'OMG BASS'. Remember, life outside of Head-fi tends to prefer bass emphasis. Typical consumers wouldn't typically like the Senns or the MMX300s (which are apparently bass light as of late).
> I like my bass plentiful, though not on a headset.
> I can't say I comletely blame ignorance, as if I only had ONE pair of headphones/headset, it'd have to be good for my taste in music too, so bass emphasis would be something I'd go for myself. However, since I can't see myself with just ONE headphone for absolutely everything, I'll pick a balanced headset, and a bassy headphone.


 

 I sorta came from that department but rather it was simply cause I didn't know any better (despite that I already knew that everything should have a balance, not a heavy floodout of so and so), and all the options presented by the Astro A40 set was really nice, and coming from some cheap $2 headphone, I'd welcome the thought of trying a "premium headphone" during that time.
   
  Now though... coming from the Astro A40, and I know this is something you can't answer (maybe?) cause it's my ears but.  Because I'm coming from that, would I be in for a surprise listening to them?  Something like a culture shock you could say?  Would my inexperience (maybe I'm being too hard on myself haha) make it harder for me to enjoy these, could I spot that it's quality headphones?  Or... is it like I'll just know?   It's coming the 2nd week of April.  So looking forward to it.
   
  I admit though that all I have is 320 kbps MP3 files so, based on some user input here in the forum, because of the way these headphones operate the music part might have a funky outcome.  Even though again, music isn't in my list of priorities in a headphone/set


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't say the difference would wow you per se. It's an improvement going from the A40s to a good pair of open cans like the Senn PC360, due to the REAL open soundstage (the A40s sound closed off even with the tags removed). the sound is more natural, whereas the A40s sound a bit hollow and plasticky. Only your ears can say whether it's a huge leap or not, but I'd say that it was a pretty big difference going from the A40s to the AD700 (albeit with the crappy bass that the AD700s have). the clarity and soundstage opened my ears to a whole new level of auditory enjoyment. 

Lets just say that when I had the A40s, I wasn't even a fan of headphones. After listening to the AD700s, something clearly changed, and I became what I am today.

I'm willing to bet I'd enjoy the MMX300 more than the PC360 for music, but the PC360 more for competitive gaming.


----------



## AxelDaemon

-COUGHS- I know I didn't mention it but unless your post was referring to it too without mentioning it, I meant the Q701 =P


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, then yes, the difference between the A40 and Q701 is quite jarring, lol.


----------



## xZOAZAx

Has anyone tried out the dss2 yet?  Just wondering what would pair up nicely with hd598 for gaming.


----------



## Phos

Just got my first real use out of my DSS.  Journey just wouldn't sound big enough without it.  Dial the headset's own volume control down just a touch to get rid of the hiss and away I went.


----------



## tecz0r

Hey everybody. Long time reader, first time poster here.
   
  Been reading through this thread any chance I get, especially during lunch breaks, great stuff all around. I'm about half way done thus far 
   
  A handful of you have been talking about using the Astro Mixamp 5.8 in your setup and what a difference its making. This is awesome, invaluable information to get a competitive edge over others paired with a great stereo headset. I do game a lot on Xbox with MW3 and I didn't just wanna throw my hard earned money on any headset that plastered "GAMING PRO AUDIO HEADSET KILL NOOBS WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED blah blah blah" jargon without reading reviews and user opinions so this community and thread (thanks Mad Lust Envy!) is great.
   
  I've decided to buy the Wireless 5.8 Mixamp but as fate would have it, AstroGaming stopped selling them in the US. I can't believe that I live in the NYC area and no one on Craigslist (or eBay) is selling just the Mixamp. They really have become a hot commodity at this point.
   
  Does anyone have any advice where to buy them or is there anyone that wants to sell them? I've checked the Sale Boards and still no dice...
   
  Thanks everyone!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp Pro is better than the 5.8 (less hiss, more inputs), but it isn't wireless. Unless wireless is a necessity, the Pro is the best choice.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, my bass preference is towards sub bass, which is more omnipresent, but not as immediately obtrusive as the thunder bass cannons that typical consumers like. I like ambient rumble, not so much the actual thumping. That's why I love the D7000 so much. The low end is incredibly powerful, but the actual impact is more or less in line with the mids and treble. So it doesn't pound senselessly your head, but fills the room with some theater like bass, while maintaiing the lovely vocals and sparkle on the top end.
> I think this is where headsets need to focus on when it comes to bass. Sub bass is infinitely less obtrusive to the rest of the spectrum compared to mid bass, so they should emphasize that, instead of the actual thump. It's a sort of 'loophole' for bassheads that want clarity everywhere else. Of course, if you just want consitent headpounding, then I guess you can enjoy that obtrusive mid bass, while sacrificing vocals and overall clarity.


 

 And I thought most of the emphasis on consumer equipment was on the sub-bass frequencies, like 20/30 Hz...then again, most consumer audio equipment probably isn't good enough to reach that low with authority. (Though I am surprised that the cheap Panasonic RP-HTF600 can hit 30 Hz and still be quite audible without EQ...most headphones can't.)
   
  Now I'd have to try and sample some D7000s to get an idea of what you're talking about...too bad I can't afford them.
   
  What I'm wondering, though, is if it's possible to get that sort of sound using nothing more than a good EQ on most quality headphones, since a lot of debate between headphone models boils down to sound signature preferences.


----------



## timcanpy

Hey Envy, I'm curious as to whether you've tried gaming on the XBOX 360 with the A40 + MixAmp 5.8 combination? From the reviews I can find around here, the A40s come off as 'hollow' but is that with or without the mixamp?
   
  I'm purchasing a headset for use on the xbox and I was dead set on buying the PC360 + 5.8 combo but as tecz0r said, the mixamp is only available when bundled and I'm looking to replace these horrid turtle beaches asap, but I don't want to dive into the A40+5.8 bundle if it sounds horrid even with the mixamp.


----------



## tecz0r

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp Pro is better than the 5.8 (less hiss, more inputs), but it isn't wireless. Unless wireless is a necessity, the Pro is the best choice.


 


  Oh I would absolutely jump on the Pro version in a heartbeat but unfortunately, my living room has a lot of foot traffic. The vision of someone tripping whilst pulling my Xbox and Mixamp to the ground is a very real one.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





timcanpy said:


> Hey Envy, I'm curious as to whether you've tried gaming on the XBOX 360 with the A40 + MixAmp 5.8 combination? From the reviews I can find around here, the A40s come off as 'hollow' but is that with or without the mixamp?
> 
> I'm purchasing a headset for use on the xbox and I was dead set on buying the PC360 + 5.8 combo but as tecz0r said, the mixamp is only available when bundled and I'm looking to replace these horrid turtle beaches asap, but I don't want to dive into the A40+5.8 bundle if it sounds horrid even with the mixamp.


 
   
  I've noticed that "hollow" myself but I think it was because of the dolby headphone option, because the sound would be inside my head during DH and not outside, while it was off.  But this might just be me haha.  It'll sound hollow by itself, but with a tweak on EQ it sounds great.  Though this is with a pre-2011 version (2009)!  So I'm not sure how a 2011 sounds.  They say they "improved" the wiring etc though.
   
  Still though for the price $200 on the headphone by itself (though this makes the mixamp a $140 value) is still hard to swallow when you could get something much better like as you said the PC360.  Guessing you don't like wired options if you didn't want to consider the Pro Mixamp an option? Rather it is your only choice at the moment if you wanted a Mixamp as a stand alone.


----------



## timcanpy

Axel, it sounds hollow even with the MixAmp (5.8/PRO)? Dang T--------T.
   
  And yea, my setup is farily small so I don't really want wires everywhere. I've got a monitor on a small ikea square table with an xbox and games on it as well and I sit about 5 feet away on a gaming chair.
   
  My current turtle beach x31s plug straight into the controller so it is fairly hassle-free, I couldn't imagine wires running down my side and everything.


----------



## AxelDaemon

My own ears aren't that good in judging yet, I might be mistaking "hollow" for something else.  I doubt the Mixamp 5.8/Pro changes the sound at all so doubt it matters.  And this is with 2009 ver of the A40s...... WAIT wait wait wait wait.  This is with my computer and a soundcard which might've had something to do with it.  On the PS3? If there was any hollowness it sure didn't deter my enjoyment from playing on the PS3.  Not sure bout the 360.
   
  Now unless somebody moves around your room constantly, maybe you can get a small flat table or something to set a Mixamp Pro in the middle? Or maybe that table would be shorter than the main table and you can just push it under once you're done?
   
   
*ATTENTION:* In case some people didn't notice.  Make an account at Astrogaming, and register your astro products (might not be mandatory who knows) but point is once you have the account.
   
  If your webaddress does NOT start with support.astrogaming then go to Support > Register a Product .  From there you should see "Astro Private Store" on the left hand side list.  If you don't see this, then registering a product might be mandatory, I wouldn't know.  Or maybe you have to have some time being a member (registered my product back in 09 so got 3 yrs under me)
   
  Inside the store is discounts on a set of items.  Not sure if it differs from person to person, it's not an impressive list but it works.  A40 + Mixamp Pro is $25 discount.  Mixamp by itself is $15 discount, so on and so forth.


----------



## ninjikiran

The a40s are pretty bad, my Brainwvz M3 even beat the stuffing out of them.  And thats an IEM


----------



## Eric_C

FWIW I think Dolby makes things sound a little "hollow", even on my 880. That's the con. The plus side is that the left/right separation is much less extreme, so that the sound is cohesive. It's easiest to test this if you have a MixAmp plugged in--even with a stereo recording (but connected via Optical, of course), switching the DH button on and off will make this patently clear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

When I say hollow and A40s, I mean that everything sounds like it has no weight to it. It all sounded so artificial. The newer edition A40s apparently have traded off clarity for said weight/bass/warmth, so pick your poison.


----------



## chicolom

I also thought the A40s had a hollow sounding soundstage.  Not the mixamps fault, just a trait of the A40s.  Other headphones sounded fine.


----------



## hamzatm

Friend want budget headphones that will completely blow his mind in movies and games (if there is such a thing), and luckily he is a complete noob when it comes to audio so I want to suggest something that has the right qualities that audio noobs tend to enjoy!
   
  Limit is about £40/$100 so I was thinking the CALs or Samson SR850 or panasonic htf-600. Which one would probably be best, and are there any other worthy mentionables? He will use them on his laptop/360 and probably through a mixamp.
   
  Cheers
   
   
   
   
  ... been trying to post this for a while but for some reason nothing seems to be posting 
   
   
  edit: he isn't into competitive FPS so immersion is the most important factor


----------



## hamzatm

On another note, orthodynamic headphones!
   
  They are apparently similar to electrostatics like Stax which are apparently the ultimate in gaming. And they are much cheaper.
   
  So whats the deal with those?


----------



## Zulkr9

I really do recommend the SHURE SRH 440, for closed can they do have a good soundstage and good positioning  Now retired but used to play CSS professionally in my country, our team was among the top ones . I still play at times and I have to say in lan sessions its impossible with an open aire headphone where there is noise coming from all round especially from the others screamin.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





hamzatm said:


> On another note, orthodynamic headphones!
> 
> They are apparently similar to electrostatics like Stax which are apparently the ultimate in gaming. And they are much cheaper.
> 
> So whats the deal with those?


 


  The HE-500 is great for gaming. I've heard the LCD-2 may not be the best for gaming due to a smaller soundstage, but I wouldn't know. I've never actually used them.


----------



## Eric_C

A week into owning the HD 600, final update on its use as a gaming headphone:
  It makes sound come out.
   
  Otherwise, it's rubbish compared to the DT 880. In combat sequences voices get a bit drowned out, e.g. in ME3 (single player) when teammates comment on the situation, if you run too far ahead, they're barely audible. There's a lack of sense of space and distance too.


----------



## mafiamike

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> The HE-500 is great for gaming. I've heard the LCD-2 may not be the best for gaming due to a smaller soundstage, but I wouldn't know. I've never actually used them.


 


 Can you please elaborate on why the HE-500 is great for gaming. ex: soundstage and detail? thanks mike


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Can you please elaborate on why the HE-500 is great for gaming. ex: soundstage and detail? thanks mike


 


  It's pretty neutral, it has a "big enough" soundstage, it can go extremely low if the game demands it (think about the sub bass in the Skyrim intro - these headphones produce it well), it (to my ears) works well with Dolby Headphone/CMSS-3D, and it is seemingly pretty detailed. I say seemingly, because I don't have much experience with audiophile headphones.
   
  Here's a ranking for gaming, based on what I've heard:
   
  HE-500 > >  Ultrasone PRO 2900 >  DT880 > > > TB HPX/ATH-M50 > > Astro A40 > TB x11 > > > > > > Triton AX PRO*
   
   
  *They sounded like you were listening to music on the moon, if that makes sense. So muffled.. so weird.


----------



## mafiamike

Thanks, I am looking in to buying the HE-500's or possible the hd 700's?. Crazy idea but I have started to listen mostly to music and not as much gaming as before.  I perfer the dt 990's(600) for music(bass) and the q701's(detail) for gaming/online. Mind you the dt's are also good for gaming too.
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> It's pretty neutral, it has a "big enough" soundstage, it can go extremely low if the game demands it (think about the sub bass in the Skyrim intro - these headphones produce it well), it (to my ears) works well with Dolby Headphone/CMSS-3D, and it is seemingly pretty detailed. I say seemingly, because I don't have much experience with audiophile headphones.
> 
> Here's a ranking for gaming, based on what I've heard:
> 
> ...


----------



## Eric_C

I'm hearing consistent distortion in Mass Effect 3, in 2 particular scenes:
   
  - Every time I make a mass effect relay jump, when the electricity crackles around the Normandy.
  - Whenever the "Reaper sound effect" (i.e. the Inception-like sound) plays.
   
  Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix for it?
  My setups are: 
  Xbox > TOSlink > MixAmp Pro (old version) > DT 880 / HD 600


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like popping? If I remember correctly, the old Mixamp didn't do bass all too well at certain frequencies (I think below 35hz). Those two sound effects are very testy for headphoneas and the Mixamp in general. I wouldn't worry too much. Sometimes my 5.8's audio cuts off for a moment with those sounds.


----------



## Eric_C

Like crackling. Pretty sure both headphones are ok, especially the 600 as it's brand new, and I don't hear problems through my separate, music setup.
  Oh well. 
   
  I guess I'll try double-amping the MixAmp with that T3 I got from the FS subforum...


----------



## Katun

It's funny how I just figured out that this thread is based on Dolby Surround, and that you need some sort of amp or sound card that can process it. All this time I've been playing straight off stereo and sometimes wonder, "this is it?" when it comes to positional cues and soundstage. Well, I guess it's pretty obvious now what I'm doing wrong! I just wonder how much better the Q701, HD598, or AD700 will sound with Dolby vs standard stereo...
   
  Guess I'll find out when the the next DLC for BF3 comes out...


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Like crackling. Pretty sure both headphones are ok, especially the 600 as it's brand new, and I don't hear problems through my separate, music setup.
> Oh well.
> 
> I guess I'll try double-amping the MixAmp with that T3 I got from the FS subforum...


 


  My mixamp never crackles. Sometimes it distorts under heavy bass (think a grenade, tube, and airstrike all hitting me at once in CoD), though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree with that order very much, except I don't have the HE-500 yet. Haven't decided which amp to buy for it and the LYR is just too much for my liking (and it costs a lot shipped to Germany).
  
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> It's pretty neutral, it has a "big enough" soundstage, it can go extremely low if the game demands it (think about the sub bass in the Skyrim intro - these headphones produce it well), it (to my ears) works well with Dolby Headphone/CMSS-3D, and it is seemingly pretty detailed. I say seemingly, because I don't have much experience with audiophile headphones.
> 
> Here's a ranking for gaming, based on what I've heard:
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





katun said:


> I just wonder how much better the Q701, HD598, or AD700 will sound with Dolby vs standard stereo...


 


  7.1 times better 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  My mixamp distorts sometimes when loud bassy stuff is happening.  I think dobly headphone craps out sometimes when its DSP-ing too much LFE or something.  Not a big deal.  The Brumaks in Gears 3 sound horrible and clip constantly, but I think that's just the game.


----------



## Phos

My DSS1 doesn't have that problem.  Journey has low frequency stuff out the wazzo and I didn't have any trouble.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





phos said:


> My DSS1 doesn't have that problem.  Journey has low frequency stuff out the wazzo and I didn't have any trouble.


 


  The DSS1 is better about it than the wireless mixamp.  I had them both and compared them, and the DSS1 distorted less on the bass, especially when bass boost was turned on both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

katun said:


> It's funny how I just figured out that this thread is based on Dolby Surround, and that you need some sort of amp or sound card that can process it. All this time I've been playing straight off stereo and sometimes wonder, "this is it?" when it comes to positional cues and soundstage. Well, I guess it's pretty obvious now what I'm doing wrong! I just wonder how much better the Q701, HD598, or AD700 will sound with Dolby vs standard stereo...
> 
> Guess I'll find out when the the next DLC for BF3 comes out...



Honestly, BF3 is not a great game to test the surround sound capabilities with headphones. While the audio is GREAT, positioning is quite literally nothing special in that game.

A better game to demo is Mass Effect 3. Or plenty of others. Modern Warfare 2 (multiplayer, not the single player), has fantastic positional cues. MW3... not so much.

It REALLY REALLY REALLY is dependent on the game you're playing. So do yourself a favor and try out as many games as you possibly can, because you will be impressed with some more than others.


----------



## Roller

A bad situation of gaming is that you have to go back to less recent titles in order to have quality audio, as virtually all new games have little to no positional cues accuracy.


----------



## Katun

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, BF3 is not a great game to test the surround sound capabilities with headphones. While the audio is GREAT, positioning is quite literally nothing special in that game.
> A better game to demo is Mass Effect 3. Or plenty of others. Modern Warfare 2 (multiplayer, not the single player), has fantastic positional cues. MW3... not so much.
> It REALLY REALLY REALLY is dependent on the game you're playing. So do yourself a favor and try out as many games as you possibly can, because you will be impressed with some more than others.


 

 Hmm. That's kinda what I figured. I personally thought BC2 was leaps better with positioning. But I'm guessing it would still be better than just using stereo format wouldn't it? I'll be using the Q701, and I guess now I'll be deciding between the Mixamp Pro or the M-Stage, as I'll be playing BF3 for the most part. The whole surround thing is really intriguing though, especially when I play other games besides BF3. Hmm...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look at the first post. There's a cool DH demo there. If the time stamps I mention don't impress you on positional cues, then it probably won't ever satisfy you.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

This might be asking for too much but is there a headphone like the DT990's (theather like bass with lots of impact when called for and big sounstage) that is also suitable for music i.e mids are not recessed? The FA-011's would probably come to mind going by reviews, but I have a feeling the bass is over exaggerated on those. I have the HTF600's and I find them kinda boring for immersive gameplay. Bass impact is weak and the lack of quantity makes the rest of the sound is kinda hollow, especially with DH. For music it's great though.
   
  I've already got the x41's, and with the bass boost on they give enough bass but I'm getting tired of the closed sound and the constant hissing. Would something like the AD900's be sufficient with a fiio e11 bass boost?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Would something like the AD900's be sufficient with a fiio e11 bass boost?


 


  Probably not.  AD900 are still pretty bass light and I doubt bass boost will give you the level you want.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





katun said:


> Hmm. That's kinda what I figured. I personally thought BC2 was leaps better with positioning.


 

 Oh god, if you think BF:BC2 had better positional audio than BF3, and I thought BF:BC2's positional audio mixing was utter crap, then I don't hold much hope for BF3.
   
  I wish DICE would go back to OpenAL like Battlefield 2 and 2142, though I don't know how well that would work out on consoles.


----------



## HyperionXL

Okay. FINALLY Got my AKG Q701s after much discourse and lost mail stubs and a bunch of crap. Took 3 weeks, but finally got them, plugged them into my Xonar STX and turned on some music and it sounds absolutely fantastic (although very quiet and hard to drive - forgot I had my previous volume on at max and turned these on without getting any bloody ears - thankfully!) Headband design sucks and it feels like I'm going to get a lump on my head from where that damn bump thing in the headband is pushing down on. I'm sure it can be modded so I'll figure that out.
   
  I'm just wondering how I should set up Xonar now. 6 speaker or 8 speaker setup? 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter on or off? PCM or Dolby Digital Live on or off? What DSP mode should I use to easily configure it. I know there is a gaming mode, but I think I saw someone say it performs better on cinema mode. I'll do some quick tests, but if someone can help me sort it out that'd be great.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Zulkr9

Why don't you guys test the gaming audio in CSS, we should so have a Head-fi css server


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





hyperionxl said:


> Okay. FINALLY Got my AKG Q701s after much discourse and lost mail stubs and a bunch of crap. Took 3 weeks, but finally got them, plugged them into my Xonar STX and turned on some music and it sounds absolutely fantastic (although very quiet and hard to drive - forgot I had my previous volume on at max and turned these on without getting any bloody ears - thankfully!) Headband design sucks and it feels like I'm going to get a lump on my head from where that damn bump thing in the headband is pushing down on. I'm sure it can be modded so I'll figure that out.
> 
> I'm just wondering how I should set up Xonar now. 6 speaker or 8 speaker setup? 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter on or off? PCM or Dolby Digital Live on or off? What DSP mode should I use to easily configure it. I know there is a gaming mode, but I think I saw someone say it performs better on cinema mode. I'll do some quick tests, but if someone can help me sort it out that'd be great.
> 
> Thanks!


 


  How big is your head?   Would that have anything to do with it?  I'm expecting this headphone in another two weeks.  So looking forward to them.
   
  I would recommend NamessPFG about PC audio setup, but he specializes in Creative soundcards.


----------



## NamelessPFG

The general rule of thumb is that the Windows speaker setting must be at 5.1 or 7.1 for software-mixed audio to even provide you the rear directional cues in the first place. What I don't know is if Xonar cards automatically set that when turning on Dolby Headphone.
   
  PCM and Dolby Digital Live are undoubtedly referring to the S/PDIF output. Just leave those off if you're running your Q701s straight out of the sound card like I'd expect.
   
  I can't really help you with DSP modes, except that you might need GX mode if you're playing games that use DirectSound3D or OpenAL.


----------



## I95North

Sound quality wise not including features which mixamp is better the wireless or the wired pro???


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh god, if you think BF:BC2 had better positional audio than BF3, and I thought BF:BC2's positional audio mixing was utter crap, then I don't hold much hope for BF3.
> 
> I wish DICE would go back to OpenAL like Battlefield 2 and 2142, though I don't know how well that would work out on consoles.


 


  OpenAL would work amazingly well for consoles as OpenAL is multiplatform and not really hard to develop in. The issue is that game developers are lazy when it comes to audio and still consider it an afterthought, prefering to use far inferior audio libraries.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rayleighsilvers said:


> This might be asking for too much but is there a headphone like the DT990's (theather like bass with lots of impact when called for and big sounstage) that is also suitable for music i.e mids are not recessed? The FA-011's would probably come to mind going by reviews, but I have a feeling the bass is over exaggerated on those. I have the HTF600's and I find them kinda boring for immersive gameplay. Bass impact is weak and the lack of quantity makes the rest of the sound is kinda hollow, especially with DH. For music it's great though.
> 
> I've already got the x41's, and with the bass boost on they give enough bass but I'm getting tired of the closed sound and the constant hissing. Would something like the AD900's be sufficient with a fiio e11 bass boost?





If IMPACT is what you want, the DT990 PROS have the most bass I've heard, with the least amount of mid recession. Seriously, those things hit like thunder. Apparently, the Ultrasone Pro 900 would be the more expensive can that people seem to really like for bass, in which it doesn't recess the mids in ways other bass heavy cans do.

Those are for bass IMPACT. I myself am not a fan of strong bass impact, but rather prefer strong sub bass, which is the ambient, omnipresent bass that fills up a room, and not hits you upside the head (impact). Denons, DT770 Pro 80, XB700 are all strong in the sub bass section, not so much in the mid bass.

When you say theater like bass, I make that connection with sub bass, not mid bass, so I'm not entirely sure what you want.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Sound quality wise not including features which mixamp is better the wireless or the wired pro???


 


 Well, the wired mixamp has a lower noise floor (less hiss).  But that won't really be an issue unless your using sensitive headphones.  Apart from that they're about the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Well, the wired mixamp has a lower noise floor (less hiss).  But that won't really be an issue unless your using sensitive headphones.  Apart from that they're about the same.




This. Honestly, they're 99.9% the same. Difference in noise floor, which is a non-issue when you're actually playing. Just buy the one that you need more. Wireless is (duh) wireless, the Pro has more inputs.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If IMPACT is what you want, the DT990 PROS have the most bass I've heard, with the least amount of mid recession. Seriously, those things hit like thunder. Apparently, the Ultrasone Pro 900 would be the more expensive can that people seem to really like for bass, in which it doesn't recess the mids in ways other bass heavy cans do.
> Those are for bass IMPACT. I myself am not a fan of strong bass impact, but rather prefer strong sub bass, which is the ambient, omnipresent bass that fills up a room, and not hits you upside the head (impact). Denons, DT770 Pro 80, XB700 are all strong in the sub bass section, not so much in the mid bass.
> When you say theater like bass, I make that connection with sub bass, not mid bass, so I'm not entirely sure what you want.


 
   
  Hmm, I don't think I'm entirely sure. I have a hard time recognizing which sounds go to which frequencies. Basically I'm looking for something that gives the ambient mood that a theater would give but with an open back headphone as it would more accurately replicate that airy feeling of being in a jungle surrounded by noises of animals for example. It should be able to pull off the soundtracks of those epic boss fight moments. I think the bass you described might be what I was subconsciously alluding to. 
   
  Which open backs would be good for that if any?


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Hmm, I don't think I'm entirely sure. I have a hard time recognizing which sounds go to which frequencies. Basically I'm looking for something that gives the ambient mood that a theater would give but with an open back headphone as it would more accurately replicate that airy feeling of being in a jungle surrounded by noises of animals for example. It should be able to pull off the soundtracks of those epic boss fight moments. I think the bass you described might be what I was subconsciously alluding to.
> 
> Which open backs would be good for that if any?


 

  
  You should consider the Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO, or if you're able to stretch your budget further, then the Ultrasone Pro 2900 becomes a very valid option. In general, Ultrasone headphones handle bass quite well, in both quantity and quality, but you might not find the Pro 900 airy enough for your tastes, while the Pro 2900 makes up for that.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





roller said:


> You should consider the Beyerdynamic DT990 PRO, or if you're able to stretch your budget further, then the Ultrasone Pro 2900 becomes a very valid option. In general, Ultrasone headphones handle bass quite well, in both quantity and quality, but you might not find the Pro 900 airy enough for your tastes, while the Pro 2900 makes up for that.


 

 Ultrasones are quite a bit over my budget. It seems like I'm hitting a dead end with this search. I'm really surprised more companies have not made a bassy open-back. I mean it seems like an obvious thing that I'm sure that a lot of people would enjoy.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Ultrasones are quite a bit over my budget. It seems like I'm hitting a dead end with this search. I'm really surprised more companies have not made a bassy open-back. I mean it seems like an obvious thing that I'm sure that a lot of people would enjoy.


 


  Look into the Ultrasone HFI-2400, they're far more affordable and still retain some of the sonic characteristics of its sibling.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





roller said:


> Look into the Ultrasone HFI-2400, they're far more affordable and still retain some of the sonic characteristics of its sibling.


 

 Those look very tempting. Theres an audio shop nearby so I'll try them The philips fidelio L1 will be in stock soon as well in the UK. Has anybody tried them with immersive gaming? I've given up on listening for footsteps on MW3. My friend mentioned it today, and I've noticed it for a while, there are times when someone shoots you and it sounds like the bullets are coming from the opposite direction that they are actually moving. Same with footsteps which are a total mess. Although that said I might need a headphone for BLOPS 2 if they sort out the sound.


----------



## Jodiuh

Grr...I cannot get these Q701's stretched for anything! They hurt. :/


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> Grr...I cannot get these Q701's stretched for anything! They hurt. :/


 


   
  You're not just saying that to make me paranoid about the headphones are you?  I got a pretty huge head which finding a measuring tape around (unfortunately the construction type the ones that aren't flimsy) measuring to the best of my ability I got 25", instructions state that it's best to do it right above your ears..
   
  Who here who found the Q701 uncomfy what was the circumference of your head?  Anyone who found it comfy, what was yours?


----------



## AkoSiMrSuave

Suggestions?  This thread has gotten way too long for me to follow in a while.
   
  Astro Mixamp
  Samson SR850 (Do NOT suggest AD700s... please)
  Zalman Zm-Mic1
   
  I'm on a budget here  (Budget... on Head-Fi... Oxymoronic I know)


----------



## Hailin

Not sure about the mic as I have the ModMic. But you will be fine with the amp/850 combo. I have the HD668B and I still reach for them at work all the time and still adore them.
  Quote: 





akosimrsuave said:


> Suggestions?  This thread has gotten way too long for me to follow in a while.
> 
> Astro Mixamp
> Samson SR850 (Do NOT suggest AD700s... please)
> ...


----------



## AkoSiMrSuave

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Not sure about the mic as I have the ModMic. But you will be fine with the amp/850 combo. I have the HD668B and I still reach for them at work all the time and still adore them.


 

  
  Yea, i was looking at the modmic but don't think it being attachable/a boom warranted the price difference.  I'll probably spring for a standing mic eventually anyway, one less wire to wear.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





akosimrsuave said:


> Suggestions?  This thread has gotten way too long for me to follow in a while.
> 
> Astro Mixamp
> Samson SR850 (Do NOT suggest AD700s... please)
> Zalman Zm-Mic1


 
   
  The Zalman sucks IMO.  Very weak sensitivity for picking up voices.  The Modmic is _very_ sensitive and then there is the deal extreme clip on too.


----------



## Indread

I'm looking for opinions on the use of Grado 125i's, or Alessandros, for simulated surround. Would this work?
   
  I am also wondering if planar-magnetic type headphones would work for surround.
   
  Lastly, I've been told the low end Grados lack soundstage. I cannot tell if this is a relative statement. Do they lack soundstage relative to open headphones, or would they, for example, have LESS soundstage than even dynamic headphones such as the Creative Aurvana Live! ?
   
   
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## DrawTheLine

Quote: 





indread said:


> I'm looking for opinions on the use of Grado 125i's, or Alessandros, for simulated surround. Would this work?
> 
> I am also wondering if planar-magnetic type headphones would work for surround.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'd be curious to see how Grados could be used for gaming as well. While they lack soundstage (in general I believe, not just for open headphones), they're supposed to have excellent imaging. I'd imagine this could be quite useful for gaming. You won't get that realistic depth from them though, which may put most people off from gaming with them.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





drawtheline said:


> I'd be curious to see how Grados could be used for gaming as well. While they lack soundstage (in general I believe, not just for open headphones), they're supposed to have excellent imaging. I'd imagine this could be quite useful for gaming. You won't get that realistic depth from them though, which may put most people off from gaming with them.


 


  All one really needs, well all I would really need to is to know which direction the enemy is. I can't personally judge distance very well, even in real life. As long as I know which direction and what surface he is walking on (I.e a metal grill, grass etc..) then I know exactly where he is. And then of course, visually looking always helps


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Soundstage is important to me. When a soundstage is too restricted, it can be hard to tell whether a sound is in front or behind you in a pinch, which is why I could never recommend something like IEMs or M50s for gaming. In a relaxed setting these headphones would work ok, but not when you rely on positional cues like FPS games. You need some 'distance in the sound, IMHO.

I would think Grados would be TERRIBLE for gaming, considering what I've heard about soundstage.


----------



## I95North

Comparison question again??

Which headset is best for audio positioning cues for fps gaming..

The ad700 or ad900?

I have the ad700 but just last night one driver quit on me.. I May look to go for ad900 or just buy 1 replacement driver for ad700.

What do you guys suggest ??

Oh i also have an he 500 on it's way to me but i'm going to need more than a mixamp to drive that HE500


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Comparison question again??
> Which headset is best for audio positioning cues for fps gaming..
> The ad700 or ad900?
> I have the ad700 but just last night one driver quit on me.. I May look to go for ad900 or just buy 1 replacement driver for ad700.
> ...


 


  The AD900 is basically an improved AD700 in all fronts. So, if you enjoy the AD700 sound, you're bound to enjoy the AD900 even more.
   
  And yes, for the HE-500 you will want real hardware to power them.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Comparison question again??
> Which headset is best for audio positioning cues for fps gaming..
> The ad700 or ad900?
> I have the ad700 but just last night one driver quit on me.. I May look to go for ad900 or just buy 1 replacement driver for ad700.
> ...


 


  I would just get a replacment driver.  The AD900 isn't any better for fps gaming IMO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I heard the AD900 has a smaller soundstage and positional cues are worse. The overall SQ is better, but not where it counts. I'd get the Q701 over the AD900 for the same purposes. Though they are opposites in terms of how they fit. The Q701 can be a bit tight on bigger heads, whereas the Audio Technicas are made for watermelon heads.


----------



## Arboginge911

I'll definitely be showing this thread to my gaming buddies.


----------



## Indread

Any way to use a DAC with the Mixamp, when using it with the PS3 in case the Mixamp DAC doesn't sound to my liking? Or do I have the logistics wrong?
   
  Also, does placing a headphone amp in front of a Mixamp, such as a tube amp, affect the simulated surround effect? I'd like to use an amp, in case the Mixamp isn't powerful enough.


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would just get a replacment driver.  The AD900 isn't any better for fps gaming IMO.


 


  They certainly don't sound any worse either. There isn't a soundstage reduction in the slightest.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





indread said:


> Any way to use a DAC with the Mixamp, when using it with the PS3 in case the Mixamp DAC doesn't sound to my liking? Or do I have the logistics wrong?


 
   
  Well, how are you connecting everything now?


----------



## Phos

indread said:


> Any way to use a DAC with the Mixamp, when using it with the PS3 in case the Mixamp DAC doesn't sound to my liking? Or do I have the logistics wrong?
> 
> Also, does placing a headphone amp in front of a Mixamp, such as a tube amp, affect the simulated surround effect? I'd like to use an amp, in case the Mixamp isn't powerful enough.



The mixamp takes a digital 5.1 source and outputs two channel analog, so you can't use another DAC with it. You can put another amp downstream from the mixamp to boost it.


----------



## Indread

Thanks for the responses. Would an amp (I'm considering maybe even a tube amp) affect the simulated surround in any way? Amps tend to distort sound in some way...


----------



## Eric_C

^Why a tube? Tubes are usually chosen because people _prefer_ distortion--in this case, even distortion in the form of even order harmonics (though that's not always the case, it just usually is). 
  What headphone are you trying to pair with the MixAmp? Why do you believe you need an extra amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

indread said:


> Thanks for the responses. Would an amp (I'm considering maybe even a tube amp) affect the simulated surround in any way? Amps tend to distort sound in some way...




No. Once the Mixamp processes the virtual surround, everything after it will keep it. Attaching another amp will affect the sound the same way an amp affects ANY signal going through it. If your amp is neutral, it won't change the sound, etc. Don't worry too much about attaching another amp to it. Unless the amp you attach is noisy, decent amps won't cause any audible distortions.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roller said:


> They certainly don't sound any worse either. There isn't a soundstage reduction in the slightest.


 


  It's not worth spending double the cost of AD700 for AD900 for_ FPS gaming_.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Mixamp is a bit lonely as of late. Since I've been spending most of my time playing Tales of Graces F (which doesn't do any form of surround), I've just been playing the sound off my Soundbar. My Q701 and D7000 are collecting dust. Sad that I use my KSC35 about 20x more than the other two cans combined.


----------



## Indread

I guess I was thinking of purchasing a headphone amp if I find the sound isn't loud enough. I've yet to purchase it though.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My Mixamp is a bit lonely as of late. Since I've been spending most of my time playing Tales of Graces F (which doesn't do any form of surround), I've just been playing the sound off my Soundbar. My Q701 and D7000 are collecting dust. Sad that I use my KSC35 about 20x more than the other two cans combined.


 

 omg Tales!! Didnt realise they've finished and released it already. It doesn't use 5.1 does it?
  Can't wait for the european version.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Anyone tried the AD1000? Accessory Jack have it for £200 which is kind of tempting


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Anyone tried the AD1000? Accessory Jack have it for £200 which is kind of tempting


 

 I have one incoming.  I'm probably just going to use the frame for some ortho drivers and sell the original AT drivers.  They'd probably make a nice upgrade for someone's AD700.


----------



## I95North

maverickronin said:


> I have one incoming.  I'm probably just going to use the frame for some ortho drivers and sell the original AT drivers.  They'd probably make a nice upgrade for someone's AD700.




Would that someone be me??

Unfortunately I just purchased three drivers from audio technica..

The price I paid for all three drivers Boggles my mind in comparison to the price of the entire headsets complete!!..

1- ad700 driver
And
2- ad900 drivers 

Very inexpensive!!


----------



## Roller

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It's not worth spending double the cost of AD700 for AD900 for_ FPS gaming_.


 


  Different budget notions for different people. While for you the sound quality differences might not be worth the price increase from the AD700, for others it might be quite a bit. Different strokes include budgets


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Would that someone be me??
> Unfortunately I just purchased three drivers from audio technica..
> The price I paid for all three drivers Boggles my mind in comparison to the price of the entire headsets complete!!..
> 1- ad700 driver
> ...


 

 If you were interested.  Just throwing it out there.
   
  How much were the drivers?  I'm not sure what they'd be worth.


----------



## I95North

$9
And
$13

It seems their drivers are inexpensive compaired to others!!

Bob would be the parts guy in audio technica of America if you needed parts from them..

I'm sure also but I did not check the ATH-AD1000 drivers are probably not much more pricey if id have to guess..


----------



## maverickronin

Wow.  That's amazingly cheap.
   
  I'll have see what new AD1000 drivers cost then.


----------



## I95North

Yeah I was shocked also.. I did not believe it!

I wonder how much also the 1000 drivers cost and also if they sell the entire frame without drivers how much that is?

I'm slow I should have asked about those drivers and the ear pads for that headset because they look comfy and I know they ate not selling for no $30.00 bucks like the dt 770 soft pads..

Oh well I can call again tomorrow and find out


----------



## maverickronin

I noticed the AD1000 isn't listed on AT's US site...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rayleighsilvers said:


> omg Tales!! Didnt realise they've finished and released it already. It doesn't use 5.1 does it?
> Can't wait for the european version.




Tales of Graces F uses basic stereo from the sound of it. Probably do to the original being a Wii title, and Wii only does Pro Logic II at the most. They didn't even use that for this game. Son, I am disappoint.


----------



## willmatic

Hey all.   First post for a 2-year lurker and semi-noob. 
   
  First, @Mad Lust Envy (and others) – thanks for a great thread. I’ve only recently come across it and your guide has been incredibly helpful in choosing to upgrade from my AX Pros.   Really well written, and the time and thought you put into the post really shows.
   
  As an aside, I purchased the D7000’s and a Yulong D100 II this weekend.   Kind of freaking out at the money I just spent, but I would say it’s mostly giddiness, as these are my first real mid-fi purchases.   I’m sure most of you have been there!  
   
  For FPS (mostly COD) gaming, I also bought an Astro Mixamp and AntLion modmic setup a couple of hours later…Yes, my goal this weekend was clearly to stimulate the global economy.
   
  Slowly getting to the point...I bought the D7000’s and D100 II as a desktop setup, and do/did not really plan on using the cans for gaming.   In my head, I planned on buying this gear and subsequently picking up either the 598’s or K702’s based on MLE’s recommendations.   Further, I do not own any quality open cans, so I thought that I could also use them as a music alternative to my (incoming) 7000’s and my other cans/IEM’s I own and use  (mainly FA-003’s, ety 4P’s and FS Atrios).  So basically to also help broaden my horizons on gear.
 Plus, the thought of gluing the micmod to the side of shiny new mahogany is def. not appealing to me!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  1)  So that leads me to want to pick up the 702’s based on the OP recommendation for pure comp. FPS gaming.  My only concern is the mic/voice chat issue when driving them that MLE mentions.   Forgive me if this is a noobie question or was already discussed in this thread, but was hoping someone could expand on this issue in case I misread it.  Can I NOT use the mic at effective volumes for in-game chat while driving the 702’s with the MixAmp on the ps3? 
   
  2)  Not relevant to this thread:  Might anyone reading this happen to have the K70x and D100 combo?  Would love to hear any input before I pull the trigger, even if it’s via PM.
   
  Thanks in advance for any input, and sorry for the long post.   

 -Will


  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Believe it or not, the Mixamp does a SPECTACULAR job driving the K70x, as long as you don't mix in voice chat whatsoever. Talking about leaving the game/voice balance completely on the game side. Once you nudge the balance away from game, the volume takes a steep dive, and you will note how badly the things need an amp.
> 
> Now I already know how volume =/= driving force, but for gaming with dolby headphone, you WON'T think about that or notice. Trust me, the Mixamp is enough for the K701 if again, you don't add voice chat. If you do, you WILL need to attach an amp to the Mixamp's headphone out, just to juice the K70x and voice chat audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Welcome!

I have definitely been there in terms of stimulating the economy where I haven't had anything to really stimulate it, lol. We are brave souls in terms of splurging on equipment we didn't test out ourselves. Blind purchases are scary and exciting the same time.

I'm pretty sure you will be blown away by the D7K and D100 (I was close to getting one myself but opted for the NFB5).

My personal preference in volume level leaves me desiring a lot more than what the Mixamp can provide when it is powering both the K70x and mic. Some say it doesn't need it, but I am definitely not in agreement with that. Hell, depending on what I'm playing, even the Mixamp may not have enough for the K70x alone (only a few games did this, where the audio was considerably quieter than what I consider normal).

Oh, I would highly recommend the Q701 over the K70x, as it has better balance for more genres of gaming and music. The K70x is a bit sterile for overall enjoyment.


----------



## I95North

maverickronin said:


> I noticed the AD1000 isn't listed on AT's US site...




Well I did call again AT to find out price on AD1000 drivers and as I thought almost as cheap as the others..

They had them in stock so I purchased a pair also along with ear pads..

 I hope the ear pads are more comfortable than the pleathers that where on my HE-400!!

The pads on HE-400 gave me Headaches bad until I got gel pads..

 I even used pads off my ad700. Which where nice with he400.. Can't wait until my HE-500 come in today.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Well I did call again AT to find out price on AD1000 drivers and as I thought almost as cheap as the others..
> They had them in stock so I purchased a pair also along with ear pads..
> I hope the ear pads are more comfortable than the pleathers that where on my HE-400!!
> The pads on HE-400 gave me Headaches bad until I got gel pads..
> I even used pads off my ad700. Which where nice with he400.. Can't wait until my HE-500 come in today.


 

 At this rate I should just order some W3000ANV drivers...


----------



## I95North

Hah got my HE-500 today and it comes with a silver cable.. It pays to read and do research lol. 
   
  I will do my own diy cable anyway because i have all the parts already..
   
  why for you ask if you already have a silver cable?
   
  So i can experience doing  my own Diy headphone cable and  also because I intended to make one for my he-400 when i had it..


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> At this rate I should just order some W3000ANV drivers...


 

 What would you do with just the drivers??
   
  What Would you put them in?? 
   
  If you get them are you planning to use them just for gaming only or music also??


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





i95north said:


> What would you do with just the drivers??
> 
> Would you put them in??
> 
> If you get them are you planning to use them just for gaming only or music also??


 

 If really wanted to I could make something to put them in or put them in another AT frame  I was mostly joking about that though.


----------



## Indread

Just wondering, does anyone know if it is possible to use electrets or electrostatic headphones with a Mixamp? I know the electrostatics require a special amp to be placed in front of the Mixamp, not sure how Electrets would work. Would EITHER be possible with a Mixamp?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





indread said:


> Just wondering, does anyone know if it is possible to use electrets or electrostatic headphones with a Mixamp? I know the electrostatics require a special amp to be placed in front of the Mixamp, not sure how Electrets would work. Would EITHER be possible with a Mixamp?


 

 Just run the mixamp's output to the input of whatever amp the other headphones need.


----------



## Manhattan75

I probably should have just asked in this thread but a made another thread titled, "Headphone help." Could anyone give me some advice in that thread?


----------



## Eric_C

Since you're already here, you might as well post the question here. Or at least give us a link to that thread.


----------



## mafiamike

Did anyone every use the hd 800's for gaming? I was just curious.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mafiamike said:


> Did anyone every use the hd 800's for gaming? I was just curious.


 


 No and i never would at its price point lol.
   
  Yeah i would but i would have to save forever to purchase that can lol..
   
  Yeah if you get them let us know how they sound, because i'm dieing to know also.
   
  Whats wrong with the ad700's they are said to be like king of the hill for fps gaming..


----------



## mafiamike

I cant afford them either and my ad 700's are stored safely away. I have been listening to alot of music lately so I have been going back and forth between the dt's and the q701's. I maybe can afford the hd 700's but I will wait for the reviews first. They have been selling a few 800's on canuck audio mart but I am not sure. I like playing blk ops with the 701's and cant seem to play that great with mw3.


----------



## I95North

The HD700 are like $1k  right?? if so thats also alot...
   
  Wow your still playing blops??
   
  MW3 is badly broken and needs some serious fixing. lol
   
  Will be using my HE500 with my underpowerd mix amp tonight on mw3 maybe even try to get my buddies to get on blops again its been awhile since playing that.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *maverickronin* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


 

 Exactly.
   
  For the record, electrets ARE electrostatics, just a particular subset that doesn't need external bias voltage because either the diaphragm or the stators (back-electret) are permanently charged with high voltage. Lower amplification requirements because of that, but the performance isn't as good. Stax electrets still use SRD-4 adapter boxes meant to take speaker-level input, but other electrets from Koss and the famed Toshiba/Rotel/etc. back-electret may have adapter boxes with large 6.3mm jacks meant for headphone-outs.


----------



## Manhattan75

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Since you're already here, you might as well post the question here. Or at least give us a link to that thread.


 

 Here ya go, any help would be awesome. Believe me, I know the price range I gave limits things a lot.
   
   
   
 I've been searching for a pair of headphones and I'm stuck. I've read many of the threads and figured I should ask those who know more than I do about these things.
 So here's what I'm looking for:
 A pair of headphones for gaming with my mixamp on xbox 360 - mostly competitively.
 Priced no higher than (about) $120.
 I will also use them for music and an occasional movie so I don't want them to be too light on bass like the AD700's.
 I want to be able to use them without having an amp as I will probably use them with a mobile device for music most often.
 I had originally narrowed my search down to the CAL!, pro DJ100 and the A700's but this was from a search of primarily closed headphones.
 I would probably elect to buy an open pair (unless a closed pair would have a big enough soundstage) since I've read that mostly open designs are preferred.
 Any suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## livingplastic

Here check out this thread http://www.gamespot.com/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/forum/astro-a40-vs-tritton-ax720-54434557/ ... LOLed hard.
   
  I bought a Tritton AX720 amp/decoder box only for about $15. I invested another $5 in cables/adapters to make it work with any headphones. It gets loud even with the 600ohm Dt770pro's. But what is with the digital rain drops when there is no audio coming thru when dolby headphone is engaged? Does the Astro mix amp get that weird sound? I've read lots of reports of the ax720's doing that. To me it sounds like it needs a filter cap installed somewhere.
   
  The one thing I don't like about the ax720 is that it is not a usb sound card. It is only fed by an optical output with the dolby digital signal already on it. 
   
  Is the astro mix amp worth getting now that I already have the ax720 amp working for me?


----------



## NeilS

Hello all, space noob here coming down to Earth for some advice.
   
  I'd like to consider myself an audiophile but then I'd probably be a an ignorant peon since my best headphones have been the DIR2000 Pioneer surround headphones, I thought they were insanely good but I keep hearing how virtual surround (Dolby Headphones) surpasses them with ease.
   
  I've read through the entire thread (after hours and hours of reading) on the avsforum board and read a few pages here (still reading to catch up but it takes time) and I love the insight.
   
  I play a lot of actio/adventure games, rpg's and third person shooters like Resident Evil or Gears of War. I'm this close to buying the DT990 but I read about how the treble is a bit sharp on them and the mid's recessed. Does this mean voices in games can be harder to hear? Are sound effects like a siren or the alarm in metal Gear going to pierce my ears with them?
   
  As someone who has never bought a high end headphone other than a IR based wireless one I'm unsure what to expect, I usually like very balanced sound but when using iTunes I often find myself changing songs to Treble boost since I find it improves things using the HD558 I use with my laptop.
   
  Any insight MUCH appreciated.

 Thank you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990s mids are recessed in that they aren't as forward as the bass or treble. That being said, the mids are very detailed. Never had a problem with listening to voices off them.

Also, dolby headphone tends to diffuse the treble out a bit, so its not as piercing as a direct attack of treble in stereo mode. If you prefer a lot of bass, the DT990 Pros have even better treble, so its not as sharp.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





manhattan75 said:


> So here's what I'm looking for:
> A pair of headphones for gaming with my mixamp on xbox 360 - mostly competitively.
> Priced no higher than (about) $120.
> I will also use them for music and an occasional movie so I don't want them to be too light on bass like the AD700's.
> ...


 

 Going by MLE's first post in this thread, and a general lack of discussion about the DJ100 and A700 for gaming, I would imagine the CAL! sounds like the right choice at your budget. You should stick with closed--you said you want to use them on the go for music too.
   

  
  Quote: 





livingplastic said:


> I bought a Tritton AX720 amp/decoder box only for about $15. I invested another $5 in cables/adapters to make it work with any headphones. It gets loud even with the 600ohm Dt770pro's. But what is with the *digital rain drops* when there is no audio coming thru when dolby headphone is engaged? Does the Astro mix amp get that weird sound? I've read lots of reports of the ax720's doing that. To me it sounds like it needs a filter cap installed somewhere.
> 
> The one thing I don't like about the ax720 is that it is *not a usb sound card.* It is only fed by an optical output with the dolby digital signal already on it.
> 
> *Is the astro mix amp worth getting now that I already have the ax720 amp working for me?*


 


  1. Digital rain drops? What do you mean?
  2. Not a usb sound card--well, why do you need USB? Are you playing console only, or console+PC?
  3. Prettty sure it's been covered more than a few times that the Dolby decoding at play in AX720, MixAmp and JVC's SU-DH1 is all the same. What might differ is whether there's hiss or not, but...if it's not noticeable on your AX720 now (and it shouldn't be--your 600 ohm headphones will likely have a very low noise floor) then I can't imagine the MixAmp making much difference to you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, if the AX720 is working as it should, there isn't a hint of a difference between it and the Mixamp other than the hiss. 

Also, if the AX720 you bought came with the in line puck (which you can adjust the volume/etc), the puck separates into two pieces which allows use of any headphone and mic. Not sure what adapter he bought, but I hope it was the legit AX720 one.


----------



## Manhattan75

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Going by MLE's first post in this thread, and a general lack of discussion about the DJ100 and A700 for gaming, I would imagine the CAL! sounds like the right choice at your budget. You should stick with closed--you said you want to use them on the go for music too.


 

 Closed isn't really a priority as I would probably use them at home mostly and when listening I'm on the go (not often at all) I typically stick with earbuds.
  Are there any open headphones you would recommend for under roughly $120?
   
  Thanks for the help to you and anyone else who responds.


----------



## livingplastic

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Going by MLE's first post in this thread, and a general lack of discussion about the DJ100 and A700 for gaming, I would imagine the CAL! sounds like the right choice at your budget. You should stick with closed--you said you want to use them on the go for music too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Digital rain drops is an easy way to describe it. When Dolby headphone is engaged and there is no sound coming from your source it sounds like crystal pins dropping on glass surfaces all around you.
   
  I do Console + PC. I have an Asus DG sound card but the headphone amp on it is hissing now after 2 weeks of use and my motherboard has Optical output but no dolby encoding. Thus if the AX 720 was usb like the mix amp it would be a huge plus.
  
  I don't think I need to spend another Hundred dollars just to have a usb sound card. I have everything I need I just need to use it. The only down side to the way I have the AX720's cables is that I'm using a KVM cable as my male to male ps/2 cable and it is really really heavy and awkward.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Maybe you mean static? Or hiss? How high is your volume (e.g. 1 o'clock, 12 o'clock) set to?
   
  If your PC's soundcard has "no Dolby encoding", are you sure that it can send out unprocessed surround sound signals? You can't just plug a MixAmp into any PC and expect it to work. (Nameless's thread probably has much more information about PC gaming)
   
  Also: MixAmp's USB connection is not for surround sound at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, none of the virtual surround decoders work through USB. Stricly toslink or (Wired Mixamp) digital coax.


----------



## livingplastic

oh, then perhaps I was mistaken with the mix amp's usb. As far as the ax720's digital rain I can have the volume set to nearly 0 and still hear it. I'm not sure if I hear it if it's all the way down.
   
  With my Asus Xonar DG It's the headphone amp that's gone bad. It doesn't matter what volume/setting . As soon as I set it to headphone and it clicks on there is hiss and it drives me up the wall. You have to have the volume up to drown it out. It wasn't like that till 2 weeks of use.


----------



## Jodiuh

As huge as the soundstage on the Q701 was, I just couldn't handle the pressure on my head, the lack of bass impact/texture/layers, and something funny sounding w/ vocals. I found it very fatiguing both physically and sonically.
   
  IIRC, MLE, you commented on the DT880 vs Q701's, but I was wondering if anyone else had some comments on those two? Specifically, the 600 Ohm Premium. Also, what do you guys thing other good options are around the $300 mark? Mated to a Little Dot MKIII?


----------



## Eric_C

livingplastic: That AX720 decoder seems absurdly noisy, then.


----------



## NeilS

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990s mids are recessed in that they aren't as forward as the bass or treble. That being said, the mids are very detailed. Never had a problem with listening to voices off them.
> Also, dolby headphone tends to diffuse the treble out a bit, so its not as piercing as a direct attack of treble in stereo mode. If you prefer a lot of bass, the DT990 Pros have even better treble, so its not as sharp.







  Actually I prefer Treble over bass I have a 5.1 set up at home and like the subwoofer kind of bass though, not sure how it feels with headphones.
   
  Did you ever find the treble hard to handle in dolby mode with the DT990's? Did you ever experience siren's or other sounds that might normally be painful to the ears?
   
  Also for handling the 600ohm with a DSS or Mixamp is an E9 enough?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 has plenty of power. 

The treble on the 990 is harder to handle in stereo than in dolby mode.

And don't get it twisted, the DT990 pros may have softer treble than the premiums, but they are STILL very treble heavy. If you like treble over bass (I do too), the DT990 Pros aren't lacking any treble whatsoever.


----------



## NeilS

Thanks.
   
  I think the pro's have more bass don't they? Wouldn't the Premium be more tailored to me or would you just recommend the 880?
   
  It seems tough to pick between the 880 and 990, some people seem to think even the 880 has too much treble, I understand you say it's softer in dolby but what about extended amounts of time, say if on a week end I get 4 hours in will I get treble fatigue with the 990?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





neils said:


> Did you ever find the treble hard to handle in dolby mode with the DT990's? Did you ever experience siren's or other sounds that might normally be painful to the ears?


 


  I personally find the treble hard to handle with some sounds.  Certain gunshots are too HOT and piercing.  When you active reload in Gears of War it's a bit too hot and crispy sounding for me.  Also when listening to music things like cymbals, strings, and pianos sound unnaturally bright to me. 
   
  If you like using treble boost though, maybe you can handle it.  The DT880 would be a safer choice, and I didn't have problems with it's treble.  It has a touch of sibilance/treble boost, but sounds pretty balanced.


----------



## NeilS

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I personally find the treble hard to handle with some sounds.  Certain gunshots are too HOT and piercing.  When you active reload in Gears of War it's a bit too hot and crispy sounding for me.  Also when listening to music things like cymbals, strings, and pianos sound unnaturally bright to me.
> 
> If you like using treble boost though, maybe you can handle it.  The DT880 would be a safer choice, and I didn't have problems with it's treble.  It has a touch of sibilance/treble boost, but sounds pretty balanced.


 

 Thanks! I think I'll start with the 880 then and in the future I hope to try the 990.
   
  Is it recommended to get the 600ohm and use it with the E9? Is there any point in also using the E7 with it?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





neils said:


> Thanks! I think I'll start with the 880 then and in the future I hope to try the 990.
> 
> Is it recommended to get the 600ohm and use it with the E9? Is there any point in also using the E7 with it?


 


  The E9 is all you'd need. PS3/360->DSS/Mixamp->E9->Headphones.


----------



## Eric_C

NeilS: E7+E9 is DAC+amp, which shouldn't even be possible with a DSS or MixAmp, because those 2 products _are_ your DACs. They're converting digital (via optical) into simulated surround for you already.


----------



## NeilS

Thanks everyone!
   
  I bought the 880 600ohm hopefully will get it in a couple days. 
   
  I feel quite ignorant asking this but is there a special kind of cable that I should get for the 3.5 male to male from the E9 to the mixamp/dss?


----------



## willmatic

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Welcome!
> I have definitely been there in terms of stimulating the economy where I haven't had anything to really stimulate it, lol. We are brave souls in terms of splurging on equipment we didn't test out ourselves. Blind purchases are scary and exciting the same time.
> I'm pretty sure you will be blown away by the D7K and D100 (I was close to getting one myself but opted for the NFB5).
> My personal preference in volume level leaves me desiring a lot more than what the Mixamp can provide when it is powering both the K70x and mic. Some say it doesn't need it, but I am definitely not in agreement with that. Hell, depending on what I'm playing, even the Mixamp may not have enough for the K70x alone (only a few games did this, where the audio was considerably quieter than what I consider normal).
> Oh, I would highly recommend the Q701 over the K70x, as it has better balance for more genres of gaming and music. The K70x is a bit sterile for overall enjoyment.


 

 Thanks for the response, MLE!    So based on above, would you retract your opinion in the OP that the mixamp does a spectacular job of driving them, or just isn't up to par at higher volume?  I too like to kick it up to higher levels when comp gaming. 
   
  Re: the mic issue, would this affect any output from the mic from my voice to others, or is this issue strictly input where I wouldn't hear teammates at preferred volume (I should have stated this more clearly in my original post, sorry)? 
   
  And on that note, I should clarify that these 70x's would be used for 100% FPS COD gaming.  I would be using the D7000's or FA-003's for any other type of gaming on the mixamp/ps3.   Would that change your recommendation above on the Q vs K series? 
   
  Also wondering if anyone could point me to a specific page in this thread (or any other) that might go into more depth on this Q vs. K 70x comparison *for FPS gaming.*  As mentioned, although I will surely use them musically for some diversity to my other gear, 95% of my decision for the purchase will be driven by performance in comp COD gaming.  Pardon the pun.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  Thx again!
   
  -Will


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Crap, I made a mistake. The Mixamp does drive the K/Qs with no problem when not using a mic. It was the Beyers that had volume issues at times when playing certain games.

As for mic volume issues with the K/Q701 and the Mixamp, its only an issue hearing voice chat from others, not your voice for everyone else. 

I'd still say that in terms of 100% FPS gaming, you wouldn't even need to spend that much for a K/Q. I'd just get a Sennheiser HD598 or PC360 which are about as good, cheaper, and doesn't need the power that the AKGs do. The HD598 is the best alternative to the K701 I've heard, and easier to use.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





willmatic said:


> And on that note, I should clarify that these 70x's would be used for 100% FPS COD gaming.   Would that change your recommendation above on the Q vs K series?


 

 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I'd still say that in terms of 100% FPS gaming, you wouldn't even need to spend that much for a K/Q. I'd just get a Sennheiser HD598 or PC360 which are about as good, cheaper, and doesn't need the power that the AKGs do. The HD598 is the best alternative to the K701 I've heard, and easier to use.


 

 This ^ 
   
  The 70x is overkill for 100% fps gaming IMO.  You don't gain much if any advantage in soundstage and positioning over the Sennheisers or Audio Technicas.  What you gain is a more enjoyable sound signature.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





neils said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> I bought the 880 600ohm hopefully will get it in a couple days.
> 
> I feel quite ignorant asking this but is there a special kind of cable that I should get for the 3.5 male to male from the E9 to the mixamp/dss?


 


  Grats, and welcome to the 880 club! Get ready for very comfortable sessions of extended gaming.
   
  About the cable question: the skeptic in me would humbly suggest "no". I'd personally stick with something that's long and flexible enough for your setup, and gold plated jacks are a nice bonus (less likely to wear out quickly).


----------



## chicolom

Astro's April Fools joke:
  http://www.astrogaming.com/audio-systems/a1-headset/a1-headset


----------



## Hailin

Give me the headset + that awesome box and i am sold. Looks more durable then astros current a40 line 
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Astro's April Fools joke:
> http://www.astrogaming.com/audio-systems/a1-headset/a1-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I was playing Castlevania HD with the Q701 and my mic. 

I have to say that the position of the game/voice knob is INCREDIBLY important.

At least with THIS game, I was able to get a loud enough game volume while maintaining a large bias towards voice chat. One very slight nudge more to voice, and the game volume became too low. 

So perhaps what Chicolom says is true when he says you don't need an extra amp with the Q701 and a mic, but you have to make sure that knob is very well placed. Master volume was maxed, and the voice knob was near 1-2 o clock. 

I'm not sure this will work with other games, but it was enough for Castlevania at least.

I haven't gamed on anything needing a mic for a while, so I can't be certain. perhaps I'll give Black ops another go soon, and see...


----------



## MrTam

Hello, I have a question about two particular headphones that have seen many threads on, but haven't really gotten a definite answer on. I'm not new to Headfi by the way,but I have decided to create a profile to ask this question. The Question is for gaming which would be better, the AD700 or the Samson SR850? Thank you for your time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrtam said:


> Hello, I have a question about two particular headphones that have seen many threads on, but haven't really gotten a definite answer on. I'm not new to Head-fi by the way, but I have decided to create a profile to ask this question. The Question is for gaming which would be better, the AD700 or the Samson SR850? Thank you for your time.


 

 The ATH-AD700 light bass is a turn off.
  So I would pick the SR850 over the ATH-AD700 no matter what I was using headphones for.


----------



## MrTam

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The ATH-AD700 light bass is a turn off.
> So I would pick the SR850 over the ATH-AD700 no matter what I was using headphones for.


 

 Are the SR850 good with the Turtle Beach DSS. I plan on using the Headphones for gaming and movies primarily, but I still want something that will sound good with music. 
   
  What would you give Samson SR850
   
  competitive
  ?/?
   
  Fun
  ?/?
   
  thanks for replying


----------



## AxelDaemon

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so I was playing Castlevania HD with the Q701 and my mic.
> I have to say that the position of the game/voice knob is INCREDIBLY important.
> At least with THIS game, I was able to get a loud enough game volume while maintaining a large bias towards voice chat. One very slight nudge more to voice, and the game volume became too low.
> So perhaps what Chicolom says is true when he says you don't need an extra amp with the Q701 and a mic, but you have to make sure that knob is very well placed. Master volume was maxed, and the voice knob was near 1-2 o clock.
> ...


 

 So even though you have the master volume on the mixamp maxed out, the Q701 was able to filter out the hissing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell, the Q701 has no hiss even when playing at loud levels. It just has an extremely high tolerance to hiss. Going from the Q701 to the D7000 is jarring in terms of Mixamp noise. the D7000 is a very sensitive headphone, and picks up all the noise.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrtam said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm sure the SR850s will work fine with the Turle Beach DSS.
  Best thing I like about the SR850 is the price, I got then when they were $40 and free shipping, now there $50 or more.
  They are a decent clone (knock off) of the AKG K240s.
  Competitive gaming?  never gamed with them.
  Fun, yes they are a very "fun" headphone.
  I'm currently wearing them right now while listening Selena Gomez-love you like a song baby, sounds fine.
  1812 Overture sound nice too.


----------



## MrTam

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm sure the SR850s will work fine with the Turle Beach DSS.
> Best thing I like about the SR850 is the price, I got then when they were $40 and free shipping, now there $50 or more.
> They are a decent clone (knock off) of the AKG K240s.
> Competitive gaming?  never gamed with them.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply, really appreciate it.


----------



## MrTam

I have looked around a bit and found out that Fischer Audio FA-011 are good with gaming. Will these headphones be any good with FPS games and music? I also plan on using them with the Turtle Beach DSS for surround sound.


----------



## spankius

I don't know much about headphones but i recently bought goldring dr150 £30 followed by ad700 £85 and then superlux hd668b £30
If i had the chance to test them side by side before buying i would have chosen the superlux. To me they are easily at least 90%+ for directional sound compared to the ad700 and they are nearly a third of the price. They also
 sound more fun on battlefield and mw3 and for films.
All the headphones are used with turtle beach dss2 which works well especially with sitrep pro and dead silence pro.


----------



## MrTam

Quote: 





spankius said:


> I don't know much about headphones but i recently bought goldring dr150 £30 followed by ad700 £85 and then superlux hd668b £30
> If i had the chance to test them side by side before buying i would have chosen the superlux. To me they are easily at least 90%+ for directional sound compared to the ad700 and they are nearly a third of the price. They also
> sound more fun on battlefield and mw3 and for films.
> All the headphones are used with turtle beach dss2 which works well especially with sitrep pro and dead silence pro.


 


  thanks


----------



## MrTam

If I could get someones opinion on which would be better for gaming and music. Gaming for immersive gameplay and directional positiong on FPS games.
   
  It's between the,"Fischer Audio FA-011" or the "Samson SR850", for the things that mentioned. I appreciate the feedback, thanks


----------



## MrTam

Thanks for those of you who replied, I decided to buy the Samson SR850 by the way.


----------



## Jodiuh

eric_c said:


> Grats, and welcome to the 880 club! Get ready for very comfortable sessions of extended gaming.




Ur not kidding. The Q701s drove nuts with the pressure and ridiculously bumpy headband!!!

The 880 premiums are in another league of comfort. I'm much happier with them sonically as well.

Also, for those of you looking for a mic, check out the modmic on amazon. It clips on with a small magnet that sticks on your headphone. Quality of mics fantastic as well.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Haha 880 AND a modmic? It's like looking into a mirror! I got the same setup + mixamp. Really, really ace for gaming.
  The only thing I could complain about is the number of wires...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I slightly prefer the 880 over the Q701 for music and overall stereo use, but find them uncomfortable due to where it rests on my jaw, and the placement makes me constantly shift them around. The Q701 is odd in that it clamps a bit due to it being fully extended, but a lot more comfy to wear all day. The bumps are an issue the firs few days, then they just disappear. 

Also, for gaming purposes, the Q701 smokes the DT880 in Dolby Headphone positional cues, and soundstage. No contest there, really. That lack of rear positional accuracy for the 880s is what keeps them from being the most recommend balanced can I'd give. I'm not alone in saying this. Most of my AVS pals have come to the same conclusion, and they have more experience with the 880s. Both the 770s and 990s do Dolby Headphone justice. 880s... not so much. They get it done most of the time, but if you rely on rear positional cues a lot, they disappoint.

I'm someone that can quickly understand where a sound is coming without having to even look at the screen. With the 880s, I've been snuck up on and killed because it took me a moment too long to realize the sound was coming from behind me. The 880s are one of the very few headphones that I honestly wouldn't ever trust in a competitive situation. Hell, even the no soundstage M50s and RE0s at least gave me very obvious front/rear sound placement.

It's a shame, because the 880s would have definitely been my choice for a secondary can...easily. They're that good, rear sounds aside.


----------



## xZOAZAx

Okay so I've decided to buy the q701 for extreme gaming purposes to replace my tbx12 setup.  All I need is a modmic  and astro mixamp correct?  Btw i'll be using it to play MW3.


----------



## Jodiuh

Eric-c: lol, yeah, wireless isn't much of an option bub. 

Mle: I haven't gamed with them yet, but would the 880 Premium 600's be any different? I disliked the 880 Pro 250's very much due to a compressed soundstage and q701 level vice gripping. Which version did u use? What amp did u use? Do u have a link for the AVS guys discussing this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the 32ohm version, but various friends on AVS have owned the 32/250/600ohm. They have assured me that the differences are slight to none, to where if you blind test them for gaming, you wouldn't tell which is which, and that all three don't do rear positioning well at all.


----------



## Jodiuh

Pro or Premium?

Would a good test be tossing a grenade and then doing a 180?

Also, fwiw, the difference between the Pro 250 and the Premium 600 was quite large IMO. The Pro 250 had a very compressed soundstage, less texture to the low end, and more sibilant highs.

Too bad I took the Q701's back before getting the 880s. Do u have any recommendations for testing rear sound placement? Maybe a test file? Iirc, the Q's soundstage was breathtaking. That I do miss. 

Ps...tapatalk doesn't seem to wanna let me reply, anyone else having that issue?


----------



## Eric_C

Rear positioning tests can be as simple as an in-game dialogue. E.g. in Syndicate or ME3, when one of the NPCs is talking and you are free to move? Just spin your character around and listen for the difference.
   
  On my 880 (250, premium) the sound pans smoothly across both Left and Right channels, from about 1 o'clock down to 5 o'clock (and vice versa on the other side). The 6 o'clock spot is kind of skipped. It sounds different from the LR arcs and if I didn't know beforehand that the sound source was at 6 o'clock, it would be hard to guess.
   
_Edit:_ Forgot to mention Pro vs Premium--difference is in clamping force. Pro clamps harder; clamp affects distance from ears to drivers, which affects the sound. Even if you were to compare Pro vs Premium of the same Ohm models, you'll probably hear some difference due to clamp alone. Hence, the difference between Pro 250 and Premium 600 is to be expected.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering the DT880 Pro ONLY comes in 250ohm... my 32 ohm was Premium. The only Pro Beyers I've heard are the 770 Pro 80 and 990 Pro. The 990 Pro was different than the 600ohm Premiums in that the bass was considerably stronger, and comfort-wise, it clamped harder.

The tests my AVS friends have done have been with the Premiums.

As for the sound skipping certain ranges... put some distance between you and the origin of the sound. That 'skip' will go away, and you'll get a seamless transition. If you're too close to a source of sound, rear positioning is non-existent, and gets more stereo like in a hard left/right pan. That's just something I've noticed with Dolby Headphone, and not an issue as you mostly have to be right next to a sound to get that 'issue'.

The further the sound, the better the rear surround cues. Though again, the 880s just don't do rear sounds well.

As for Pro vs Premium, if the 880 is ANYTHING like the 770 and 990 Pro models, their positioning and overall surround effect will be better than the Premium variants.


----------



## unearth07

HI! this thread is amazing. is the sennheiser pc 360 still worth the purchase? i only have a asus xonar dg 5.1 sound card. i only have enough money to get 1 good pair of headphones...right now i'm using the fatality gaming headset. it's pretty good, but i want to dip my feet in the "audiophile" range of headphones. hopefully the cheap 30 dollar sound card will be enough. all the headsets you reviewed was so helpful...cuz just tonight i decided i want a good set of headphones, and i was completely lost as of where to start. i play alot of modern warfare 3...but i play a lot of single player games too, so really i need a set of headphones that do both well. i'm just too torn as to what to pick! =P i'm excited to hear what dolby headphone sounds like. what is the best set of cans in the 150 range in your opinion? thanks for your time, you've already helped a lot!


----------



## unearth07

preferably a set that doesn't require an amp? i'm completely noob to this. i just need to settle on a pair of headphones soley for gaming with amazing sound under 200 bucks that have decent bass and good clarity without being hissy. i had no idea there was so much involved in buying a pair of headphones!


----------



## Jodiuh

Just listened to the match box shake binaural test track. Compared to my HD580's, the rear pan seems to move up...definitely not as consistent. I love the 880s for music, but am leary of BF3 performance now. Which btw, was fantastic on the Q701. I'm in a bit of a conundrum now. 

Is there another headphone that gives me the sonics of the Beyers, with the positioning/soundstage of the AKGs? I loathe compromising.

Also, not a fan of Dolby Headphone in BF3. At least on my DX anyway, source set to 8 channel, analog set to headphone gives me the best cues.

Edit: I suppose I can continue to use my 770s for shooters, and 880s for everything else. At least then, I don't compromise in comfort.


----------



## NeilS

Does the HD598 benefit from using an E9 with a DSS or is it better to use it without the E9?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





unearth07 said:


> i only have a asus xonar dg 5.1 sound card.


 

  PC gamer? Check this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 isn't optimal for headphones under 80ohms, though it doesn't noticaby do anything bad to low ohm headphones on the big jack. The small jack should be avoided at all costs.

The HD598 is supposedly easy to drive, but I beg to differ. Its one of the few headphones I can say with full certainty, that it wants power, for my own ears. But I'm in the minority.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





neils said:


> Does the HD598 benefit from using an E9 with a DSS or is it better to use it without the E9?


 


  I would use it without it. 
   
  But, If you already have an E9 you could try it and see.  My PC360 didn't benefit from the E9.


----------



## NeilS

Ok thanks guys! I'll give it a try.


----------



## tecz0r

Hey everyone!
   
  Obviously no one was selling a wireless Astro Mixamp so I broke down and bought the whole set, Astro A40's and Wireless Mixamp 2011 edition straight from AstroGaming.com. 
   
  I have to say, once everything was hooked up, after using the A40's for a few games of MW3 online, I was a bit... *underwhelmed*. The sound itself was hallow, the treble was lacking and there was a general sense of muffled ambient noise around me. It was just... not what I was expecting after dishing out $300+. Granted, I did buy the whole set with the full intention of selling the headset so I'm not that upset. I can't believe the amount of people that swear by these things and they're considered the better headsets of the gaming community compared to Turtle Beach or Trittron....
   
  I decided for ****s and giggles that I'd try out my KSC75 (with the quarter/kramer mod done) and WOW! I was genuinely blown away by how crystal clear the treble was, when I used a gun such as the MP7 without a silencer, I could feel each bullet penetrating the enemies, it was sharp and brilliant; for $15?! HOLY SH%T!. So much so that I didn't even want to use the A40's anymore. Only thing that sucks is having to use a mic that hangs on my shoulder.
   
  I will say, the long distance positional cues seemed to be overall better with the A40's but we're comparing $200 to $15, c'mon now.  Also, the build quality on the A40's seemed very sturdy and solid. 
   
  Oh well, I can't wait to get the PC360's once I sell these A40's. So looking forward to it, I can't wait.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the KSC75 is awesome. I love them bone stock, no mods.

But yeah, they're not really gonna hold a candle to any decent full sized headphone in terms of positional accuracy or soundstage. Still, for $15... they just put a smile to my face.


----------



## AxelCloris

So I got the money to pick up my pair of Q701s finally, and I'm about to put in my order, but with what MLE said about them being weak with voice chat when using a mixamp has me thinking about double amping them. I will be playing them with the xbox and off my PC, both through the mixamp for DH. So I'm looking for a budget around $150 for an amp to get me that sweet spot. I know that the O2 ticks that pricepoint, but some say that it lacks the warmth that makes the Qs really stand out. I've seen some Matrix's on the FS section, but the ones that are around $200, which I could stretch a bit to get, either are still open but have been sold or the sellers aren't responding to people. So for around $150 are there any recommendations to pair with the mixamp to get the gaming chat to be less picky? I'll still be ordering the Qs for games like Mass Effect and such that don't need voice chat, but when I play MW3 on the Xbox, or integrate voice chat through the mixamp for pc gaming then I may need that extra oomph to get it there. So, thoughts? Suggestions? Snide remarks?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So I got the money to pick up my pair of Q701s finally, and I'm about to put in my order, but with what MLE said about them being weak with voice chat when using a mixamp has me thinking about double amping them. I will be playing them with the xbox and off my PC, both through the mixamp for DH. So I'm looking for a budget around $150 for an amp to get me that sweet spot. I know that the O2 ticks that pricepoint, but some say that it lacks the warmth that makes the Qs really stand out. I've seen some Matrix's on the FS section, but the ones that are around $200, which I could stretch a bit to get, either are still open but have been sold or the sellers aren't responding to people. So for around $150 are there any recommendations to pair with the mixamp to get the gaming chat to be less picky? I'll still be ordering the Qs for games like Mass Effect and such that don't need voice chat, but when I play MW3 on the Xbox, or integrate voice chat through the mixamp for pc gaming then I may need that extra oomph to get it there. So, thoughts? Suggestions? Snide remarks?


 


  A fellow Ohioan!
   
  I would keep after a used M-stage.  With the M-stage you get a nice benefit of boosted soundstage.
   
  You might not need to double amp though.  I don't need to, but I do because the aforementioned reason ^


----------



## Eric_C

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if the Q701 just needs double amping for power, and the O2 is supposedly powerful+neutral, doesn't that make it a good match? Why would you want a warm amp with warm headphones, especially for gaming?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if the Q701 just needs double amping for power, and the O2 is supposedly powerful+neutral, doesn't that make it a good match? Why would you want a warm amp with warm headphones, especially for gaming?


 

  
  The O2 might be fine.  I just hesitate to recommend stuff I haven't actually used.  And the m-stage isn't _that _warm.  I just think if you going to double amp, why not boost the soundstage too?  Maybe the O2 can do this as well.  The E9 didn't.
   
  I still think the Q701 doesn't _need _to be double amped.l.  The mixamp gives me enough volume, even with chat...


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if the Q701 just needs double amping for power, and the O2 is supposedly powerful+neutral, doesn't that make it a good match? Why would you want a warm amp with warm headphones, especially for gaming?


 

 The O2 should work fine for that.  It's transparent to the source and its got plenty of power.  I've never used mine with the 701 but it's got plenty of power for my my K601s and T50RPs.


----------



## AxelCloris

Haha, yeah, southwest Ohio no less. About 15 mins north of Cinci.

As for the mixamp, I'm going to try running it solo first before going the double amp route. But I like to have everything planned out well before I make my purchases, so the sooner I start weighing my options the better for me.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Haha, yeah, southwest Ohio no less. About 15 mins north of Cinci.


 


  Nice.  I'm about 50 minutes north of it.


----------



## unearth07

hah i'm like 40 mins north of cincy =P i think i've came to a conclusion of getting either dt770's or 880's. for a first pair of "real" headphones...i'm pretty excited! which would you guys recommend for playing a variety of games...fps and single player? i strayed from alot of the other sets because i am mainly interested in the immersion but keeping clarity in as well...and these 2 sets seemed pretty recommended. i'm happy i found this site =P


----------



## unearth07

^^ my cheap asus xonar dg will be enough to power those? as of right now i'm mainly just interested in pc gaming. i'll get the astro mixamp if i decide to use them for consoles later


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The reason people don't seem to like the Q701 with the O2 is because the O2 supposedly sounds a bit thin, and slightly treble boosted. I haven't heard them, so I wouldn't know, but that's the same kind of thing I consider the E9 to sound like. The E9 has power, but compared to other amps, it does sound a bit thin (not a lot of body), and a slight harshness to treble.

If gaming is what's most important to for the Q701, the amp choice isn't gonna be too important, as long as it's fed with enough power. Dolby Headphone is going to diffuse those faults to an extent on an amp anyway, so they won't be oticeable like they are when listening to music.


----------



## Eric_C

Agree that the E9 sounds a bit bright. Demo'd it, didn't like it.
   
  Chicolom: Wow, I didn't know the M-stage boosted soundstage! I'd love to pick one up, but the price is a bit steep and I've been getting too many toys of late...


----------



## Adanteh

Hey everyone,
  I broke my creative fatal1ty gaming headset after quite a while and I'm actually quite happy that I broke them. The sound quality was god awful. What I do need it for? Gaming. Primarily multiplayer FPS gaming, but RPGs and Strategy games get enough playtime also. Movies and music (Lately mostly electronic, but also a lot of post-rock). Using a desktop with an onboard reatlek sound chip, so I would like to have either an USB headset with Dolby Headphone support or for a pair of analog headphones get myself a Xonar DG.  I also use a laptop (XPS 15, 2010 edition) for music and movies. 
   
   
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-Over-Ear-Computer-Headphone-GHS1BLK/dp/B004HDZ4VQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334165403&sr=8-1
   
  €80 + €30 - They look incredibly nice, they are quite small and portable (Which is welcome for me), but the microphone doesn't look that great (And from what I've read isn't that sensitive). All in all the price is quite high (€80, seeing I somehow can't get those from the link send to the Netherlands), seeing I would still need a soundcard for gaming. 
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CA-9011112-WW-Vengeance-Gaming-Headset/dp/B005QUQP7G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334165965&sr=8-1
   
  €80 - They're getting good reviews and don't look that bad for a gaming headset. They don't seem to work thát well with Dolby Headphone, but they are USB and come with a sound unit supporting Dolby Headphone, so no need for a soundcard then. It does give me the bonus of being able to use Dolby Headphone on my laptop for movies. I would be unable to use them with my iPod. (Wouldn't be very common anyway) 
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-Labs-70GH014000004-Blaster-Headset/dp/B00432WNDS/ref=pd_cp_computers_0
   
  €55 - From the reviews they seem to be great with Dolby Headphone. The sound quality doesn't appear to be that great and I wasn't that fond of the build quality of my previous pair of Creatives. The added bonus is that there's a separate USB soundcard using Dolby Headphone, so i would be able to use them with my iPod (Don't expect that to happen that often) . Build quality and comfort is less compared to the Corsairs judging from the reviews I've read. They are the cheapest though.
   
  Now onto completely different territory which got me moving to Head-fi. The fact that I still had  my old mic lying around and I also had a 3,5mm jack extension cable made me think it would be smart to just get a normal pair of headphones. This does come with the hassle of an extra cable (And being unable to mute my microphone with the cable, which isn't that much of a problem. I use push to talk and can always mute my microphone using my Logitech G13) and I need to think  of a clever way to attach it. Now I read this thread and a lot of things are above my budget, and I also need a Xonar DG then (About €30). 
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMSON-209995-SR850/dp/B002LBSEQS/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1334166972&sr=1-1-catcorr
   
  €38 + €30 - The headphones themselves are cheap, but the build quality seems quite bad. I don't even want to mention the looks, but if the price-quality is going to be that great I really don't care. I just need to attach my old microphone to it, which is going to be a hassle (Any ideas are welcome. I've already checked out the modmic, but seems a bit expensive seeing I already have a decent microphone lying around). I'm getting mixed thoughts on the actual gaming though. The sound quality appears to be great, but the directional audio not so much. Using an internal soundcard will mean I can't go Dolby on my laptop, but I'm expecting it to sound pretty good with the headphones anyway.
   
  All in all the creative seems interesting because it is cheap and has good directional audio. Plus it's helpful for me to have an external USB card, seeing it lets me use it on my laptop also then. The corsairs are more expensive, but are more comfortable and have better general build and sound quality. I think they're quite fancy looking as well. I'm leaning more to the Corsair pair at the moment, but if the SR850s would give me a lot better sound quality I would like to go for those instead. It does seem like a shame to pay almost half of the price to get a soundcard while I really use my laptop for music and movies most of the time. All in all it seems like on my budget it's wiser to choose a normal gaming headset, but maybe the folks here at head-fi can help me think differently. 
   
  Any other suggestions and random thoughts are more than welcome


----------



## Akin

Quote: 





adanteh said:


> Hey everyone,
> I broke my creative fatal1ty gaming headset after quite a while and I'm actually quite happy that I broke them. The sound quality was god awful. What I do need it for? Gaming. Primarily multiplayer FPS gaming, but RPGs and Strategy games get enough playtime also. Movies and music (Lately mostly electronic, but also a lot of post-rock). Using a desktop with an onboard reatlek sound chip, so I would like to have either an USB headset with Dolby Headphone support or for a pair of analog headphones get myself a Xonar DG.  I also use a laptop (XPS 15, 2010 edition) for music and movies.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have the corsair vengeance 1500 and I seriously love it for a headset. IMO it responds very well to eq, so you could bring up the bass, you could bring up the trebles for competitive gaming. In game sounds perfect. The positioning is just spectacular imo but I haven't tried much other headsets. Soundstage is nice in songs but during games its a bit hard to understand the range of the enemies, but positioning is well made. I yanked the cable so there is buzzing but the headset it self seems durable. Also it was a bit tight on my head but after resting them on some books for one whole school day, they became sooooo comfy. You can also adjust sound modes to stereo, dolby 5.1, and there is 7.1 channels. When you adjust it to 5.1, going to the sound control panel in the settings of windows and changing it to 5.1 aswell makes it sound better. I usually use 5.1 for music and/or gaming as it makes music sound like its around you.
   
  Recommended


----------



## NamelessPFG

Just get a Xonar U3 or similar USB device for your laptop if you want Dolby Headphone on it, and then choose a headset with 3.5mm jacks. No need to have that integrated into the headset.
   
  As for which headset, I have no specific recommendations.


----------



## AxelCloris

Random question for you MLE. Going off the first post's rating scale, with the K70x being 6/10 for fun and 10/10 for competitive, where does the Q fall on the fun spectrum? I know you said that it improved it overall, just wondering if you could tack a number on there for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Last edited: 2:35 am. Lol I edited a million times, so re-read...

I'm really sorry for the excruciatingly long wait for this, as I know some of you wanted a final say on the Q701. I just haven't had much in the way of competitive gaming, but with all the experience I have had with them, I can come to a logical conclusion.

Q701

Fun: 7.5
Competitive: 9.5

Fun: I want to give them an 8 for fun, and they do deserve that most of the time, but there are times when you can tell that sub bass is lacking. Don't get me wrong, they can be quite bassy, but its leaning more towards mid bass (the quick hits), than the ambient/mood setting bass that I prefer. Still, they can get very fun at times, and anyone looking for a well balanced can that can perform great overall, these are better than the PC360 and DT880 overall.

Competitive: I can't directly compare the two for competitive use, but no one should pass these up for the slight decrease in score. They are essentially just as good, but the K701 lacks a proper balance for overall use, so you end up really focusing on details, which is the main strength in the K701. The emphasis on detail retrieval is what makes the K701 just beastly. The Q701 is tuned for more enjoyment FWIH, though they are still detail monsters, just not as glaringly obvious. As far as positional cues and accuracy, they are every bit as good as the K701. Soundstage may be just a smidge smaller, but I attribute that to the fuller sound. Soundstage to me is bigger on headphones that lack a lower end, letting the space breathe more, if that makes sense.

Seriously, get the Q701 over the K701. Its just an overall better can. If you seriously just want detail whoring for gaming, the money is better spent/saved on some AD700s. The K701 is overkill for that specific need, as the Q701 can be just as good, and be enjoyable outside of gaming. I didn't like the K701 for anything other than competitive gaming. I like the Q701 for most purposes. I tend to use them over the D7000 when watching my favorite shows, due to comfort (love me open+velour pads), and voices are clearer, or playing games that aren't reliant on bass. My D7000 is mostly for music, action movies, and intense games.

As far as my second fave balanced can (DT880) compared the Q701, the DT880 slightly edges out the Qs in fun due to having a more appreciable amount of low end which makes them better to me for music and fun gaming, but falls short on competitive for the lack of positional accuracy. Still, for the uses that I need my balanced can for, the Q701 is still a better fit due to richer mids, better comfort (one of the few who doesn't take Beyers well comfort-wise), and just great all-purpose gaming cans.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Btw at one point you mentioned how the mixamp alone can still drive the Q701 (and the K701?) properly even if you're using voice chat, it's just that the smaller dial's position is very crucial.  When you did use voice chat, you had the master dial maxed out.  Does this mean that the Q701 really filters out the hiss produced by the Mixamp?
   
  Anywho you mentioned further testing into this with various other games.  How has that turned out?
   
  -still waiting for Q701, Mixamp, and LVA 7330 to mic mod.-  Those oughta come next week.  Here's hoping my head's not that big to make it uncomfy.  And even if it is, it's not that hard for me to adjust to things.


----------



## Adanteh

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Just get a Xonar U3 or similar USB device for your laptop if you want Dolby Headphone on it, and then choose a headset with 3.5mm jacks. No need to have that integrated into the headset.
> 
> As for which headset, I have no specific recommendations.


 

 Hmm, didn't know they had those things from Asus. Looks interesting enough. Does Dolby Headphone make that much of a difference anyway? From what I got out of this thread it does a great job, but will a small USB device like that give me the same results? Or is the technology ALWAYS the same and does it fully depend on the compatibility with the headset? Anyway, I'll probably just order the Samson headphones then. (Now if the Amazon seller that actually sends them to the Netherlands will get some back in stock). Any recommendations with attaching my microphone? It's just one of those Creative boom microphones, similar to the Turtle Beach ones.


----------



## crichard

Perhaps include IEMs in the review? I remember reading Dsnuts saying that ASG-1 > ATH-AD900 for gaming...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axeldaemon said:


> Btw at one point you mentioned how the mixamp alone can still drive the Q701 (and the K701?) properly even if you're using voice chat, it's just that the smaller dial's position is very crucial.  When you did use voice chat, you had the master dial maxed out.  Does this mean that the Q701 really filters out the hiss produced by the Mixamp?
> 
> Anywho you mentioned further testing into this with various other games.  How has that turned out?
> 
> -still waiting for Q701, Mixamp, and LVA 7330 to mic mod.-  Those oughta come next week.  Here's hoping my head's not that big to make it uncomfy.  And even if it is, it's not that hard for me to adjust to things.




I answered this a few pages back, I think. Yes, the Q701 really keeps the Mixamp's hiss in check. It's almost inaudible.

I haven't been testing, sorry about that. I'm only playing single player games lately, so can't really give a definitive answer on whether the Q701 and a mic are fine with just the Mixamp alone. FWIR some games yes, others no, so I will still say that overall, they need an extra amp.

IEMS? No. I don't like IEMs, and they lack soundstage... a severe lack, actually. I only mentioned the RE0s, because I owned them, and considering their neutral nature, it was worth giving them a run.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I answered this a few pages back, I think. Yes, the Q701 really keeps the Mixamp's hiss in check. It's almost inaudible.


 


  Yes it does.  The combination of them being slightly hard to drive along with naturally rolling of those uppermost frequencies really cuts it down.  When I get to silent parts of a game or pause it, everything sounds dead silent.  I can't even tell my amp is on unless I make noise in the game.


----------



## CaptainRusko

Will you be reviewing the AKG 550? heard good things about it musically as a headphone but also heard its got a excellent sound stage for a closed headphone. Tyll seems to like.


----------



## Akin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Yes it does.  The combination of them being slightly hard to drive along with naturally rolling of those uppermost frequencies really cuts it down.  When I get to silent parts of a game or pause it, everything sounds dead silent.  I can't even tell my amp is on unless I make noise in the game.


 
  Slightly?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





akin said:


> Slightly?


 
   
   
  Certainly not as bad as Head-fi makes them about to be 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I don't think they need a monster $1000 amp, _or _500 hours of burn-in.  Head-fi may tell you otherwise.  The AKGs just have a bad rap on Head-fi, so they get all these myths spread about them.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





adanteh said:


> Hmm, didn't know they had those things from Asus. Looks interesting enough. Does Dolby Headphone make that much of a difference anyway? From what I got out of this thread it does a great job, but will a small USB device like that give me the same results? Or is the technology ALWAYS the same and does it fully depend on the compatibility with the headset? Anyway, I'll probably just order the Samson headphones then. (Now if the Amazon seller that actually sends them to the Netherlands will get some back in stock). Any recommendations with attaching my microphone? It's just one of those Creative boom microphones, similar to the Turtle Beach ones.


 

 It's the same sort of processing, so unless something's really wrong with the fidelity of the source (Xonar U3 in this case), there shouldn't be a dramatic difference. It's just that some headphones bring out the positional cues those binaural surround filters offer better than others, and that's what this guide is about-picking out the right headphones to get that "aural wallhack" experience.
   
  As for attaching your microphone, there's always the cheap route with a bit of tape, Velcro, or something along those lines.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As far as the Q701 needing an extra amp for use with the Mixamp+Mic, it doesn't have to be a typical head-fi amp like the M Stage. You just need to push the decibel level to a certain point with clean form of power.

Gaming audio is nowhere as pristine and important as music, and with a DSP like Dolby Headphone, you're trading off sheer SQ for other benefits, so you don't need an expensive amp to to get the last few percentages an expensive amp will get you over a decent, affordable one.

I'd suggest the E11 as the extra amp for the Mixamp+Q701, but I don't know how much more it adds. The E5/E6 are definitely not enough, as they barely add any volume, especially when the Mixamp is doing double duty by poweringthe Q701 and a mic.

FWIR, the way volume scales in terms of power is crazy. Something like you need twice the power for just a mere few decibels of volume. So if you think the Mixamp just needs a little push, far from it. That little bit of necessary volume requires some decent power. This is why I usually recommend the E9, as its very powerful for such a small price (in head-fi terms).

As far as more headphones, no. This is pretty much my endgame, and don't see any future purchases any time soon. I barely make a living as is, so this hobby needs to take a lengthy back seat, lol.


----------



## Akin

Nah, I didn't think so either, but a nice desktop amp should help them


----------



## genclaymore

Yea mad Lust Envy i know what you mean,. The Matrix M-Stage V2 is the very last amp I will get my self, as well getting a external dac that will be the only one I will ever get. As soon I saved up enough for one I planning to get. This Cheap Xonar DG will just be used as a Transport sending it features over thru Digital when that time happens. the DT880 pro-250 is also gonna be my last headphone i buy. unless i start to get to curious about the DT880 600 non pro model.


----------



## AxelCloris

So I've had the Qs for about a whole 4 minutes now and holy crap, there's someone speaking in the background on Mass Effect 3's main menu? O_o I couldn't hear that at all with my FA-011.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As far as more headphones, no. This is pretty much my endgame, and don't see any future purchases any time soon. I barely make a living as is, so this hobby needs to take a lengthy back seat, lol.


 

 I know the feeling, but still have a thought...what if people could trust you enough to lend you their headphones solely for review purposes?
   
  For what I have in mind, though, you'll need a speaker power amp...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Just did the hd555 mod on the PC360 by taking out the nylon and the plastic grill in side of the second plastic grill and it sounds much more open and the bass seems deeper.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My problem is, I don't have a lot of time to mess about with such things. I work six days a week, and I just wanna relax when I'm not working. This 'guide' and all were done when I worked 4 days a week, and had a lot of free time.

Hell, the majority of my time here is when I'm at work.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hell, the majority of my time here is when I'm at work.


 

  
  Lol, unfortunately I'm in the same boat.


----------



## maverickronin

Me three.
   
  Like right now...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I work 7 days a week and study for college and am married.... I don't have time to relax... I see the beach but don't get to go.


----------



## Jodiuh

hawaiiancerveza said:


> I see the beach but don't get to go.




I don't know if I should laugh or cry for u. :/

Also, curiosity got the best of me...





With eric_c and mle mentioning the 880s failure to pinpoint 6 o'clock sound cues, I had to test the Q again. All I needed was this clip...

http://www.virtualbarber.org/page.php?32

Sadly, it's painfully obvious how much better the Q projects the first few 360s than the 880s...specifically from 3 to 9. It's flat and for the most part resembles a halo around my head. The 880 sort of cuts from 4 to 8 "through" my head. The sound is more centered just like mle mentions in the 1st post. It also seems to go up. I haven't gamed yet, but can see how this might be a small problem in an online shooter. 

I've got some 580s and 770 pro 250 (old version) to compare tomorrow...er today.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to see that people understand what I'm talking about.

I dont make these things up. The 880 is flawed in terms of rear positioning. Almost everyone I've talked to about the 880s, no matter what ohm version, has come with the same conclusion. 

Sonically speaking, I do prefer the 880s sound signature over the Q701 overall, but they just don't cut it for gaming with virtual surround.


----------



## Jodiuh

Yes, that is my dilemma. I'm not going to keep both, that's silly. I prefer the richer bass and more natural sound of the 880, but honestly...I had a lot of fun with the q's massive soundstage. I would often get lost in there, but I was always aware when wearing the Beyers. This is going to be a tough call cause I "fixed" the Q's terrible headband with 4 twisty ties. 

Ps. I wanted to disbelieve you so much, lol. But side by side...it's quite clear the Beyers are a bad choice for gaming and would further contribute to my spawn, die, spawn, walk around, die "issue" in bf3.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I work in the medical field thats why and have college.  When I'm not studying I'm working.  When I don't have both I need to give attention to my wife.  Married men should understand this.  Not trying to bash...
  
  Quote: 





jodiuh said:


> I don't know if I should laugh or cry for u. :/
> Also, curiosity got the best of me...


----------



## AxelDaemon

So the Q701, the Labtech LVA 7330, and the mixamp finally arrived.
   
  So here's the impression from a complete greenhorn without proper lingo.
   
  Set things up to the PC.  With just a 3.5 mini to RCA on onboard audio to Mixamp to the Q701.  Using foobar. 
   
  Well with random music... I certainly perceived things differently, enough that it made me giddy/surprised at some points.  Some instruments in the background that I never knew were there, could be heard, just a tiny detail but it was there.  Though for arguments sake I had this pair of in-ear Beats given to me and I switched to that for a moment... It's there too just not as "present" "well known" as the Q701, but this difference is so tiny in the grand scheme of things, maybe my ears are playing tricks on me.  I don't have my A40s unfortunately to test this.  Carrying on though.
   
  Lots of instruments sounded MUCH better hrm... "ALIVE" "DETAILED" though this really stands out at the END of each note.  If between both headphones the body of it seems to be about the same, but there's just that extra pinch of detail you can hear at the end of each note for various instruments, though other times with the in-ear Beats that extra pinch of detail is sometimes missing.  I dunno maybe this is a bad setup for testing, specially considering one's an full On-Ear and the other is an In-Ear.  That and I have very little flacs.  Just alot of 192-320 mp3s hah.
   
  I think I'm understanding what people mean about the soundstage though...  What I am gonna try doing though is visiting an acquaintance I know in the Philippines.  He's got a PS3, and the top of the line of the Beat series the Over Ear ones I'll set things up and do a headphone comparison with him for ****s and giggles.
   
  Seems like with my current setup, it's all about those tiny little extra details in the music that makes it great.
  Overall... the general headphone is fine for most people.  Then there's headphones like this which most people think... "You spend x amount of money for headphones like this seems crazy."  Course once you listen to it and you step into that world you understand why heh.
   
  On the side note in some movies/anime in bluray format..  Well that certainly was very interesting.  More interesting than the music I must say, lots of sound effects sounded lot more... vibrant, but this is just a repeat of the above.  I used Media Player Classic and just unchecked everything in ffdshow audio.
   
  Frankly I'm really trying to differentiate between both, there are differences, but on average it's very mild/slight differences.  Maybe my ears are just playing tricks on me lol. 
   
  ====
  @Jodiuh: You either have a bigger head than me and I consider my head a bowling ball or the format of the Q701 is just very weird to you.  These things fit comfy for me. sure the way it wraps your head is very different to what anyone would be used to but you get used to it.  Also what did you "fix" exactly?  You used the zipties to keep it in place so that it stops retracting each time it's off your head?
   
  Anywho thanks ya'll for recommending this.  I'm quite happy.  Although I wished there was a more night and day difference that I could notice *easily* without having to *try* to notice.  I guess it'll be like AxelCloris where I'll find more things that'll surprise me.
   
  But yeah I just typed whatever came across my mind, didn't really review and organize this lol.


----------



## Manhattan75

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> I work in the medical field thats why and have college.  When I'm not studying I'm working.  When I don't have both I need to give attention to my wife.  Married men should understand this.  Not trying to bash...


 

 Need a tissue?


----------



## NeilS

Does anyone know if it's possible to plug the DSS or Mixamp to a usb power supply instead of the usb port of the console? Would it be bad for it considering then it would constantly be on?


----------



## Rebel975

I haven't ever tried plugging it in to anything other than the console, but leaving it on constantly doesn't seem to be a problem. My Mixamp doesn't ever get turned off - it's basically been on constantly since I got it a couple years ago.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> So the Q701, the Labtech LVA 7330, and the mixamp finally arrived.
> 
> So here's the impression from a complete greenhorn without proper lingo.
> 
> Set things up to the PC.  With just a 3.5 mini to RCA on onboard audio to Mixamp to the Q701.  Using foobar.


 
   
  Congrats on the new gear!
  
  I hope you plan on hooking the mixamp up with an optical cable for gaming? 
   
  And the mixamp isn't that impressive for music.  If your going to be using them alot with music you should probalby look into a DAC/amp...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> So the Q701, the Labtech LVA 7330, and the mixamp finally arrived.
> 
> So here's the impression from a complete greenhorn without proper lingo.
> 
> Set things up to the PC.  With just a 3.5 mini to RCA on onboard audio to Mixamp to the Q701.  Using foobar.


 

 The Mixamp's meant more for console use. You would have had a lot more bang for the buck just getting an internal sound card and a dedicated dynamic headphone amp.
   
  ...Wait a minute. Did you actually buy the Mixamp to use as an amplifier, rather than a Dolby Headphone DSP (for which it needs a Dolby Digital signal over S/PDIF to work properly)?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> So the Q701, the Labtech LVA 7330, and the Mix-amp finally arrived.
> So here's the impression from a complete greenhorn without proper lingo.
> Set things up to the PC.  With just a 3.5 mini to RCA on on-board audio to Mix-amp to the Q701.  Using foobar.


 

 Does you motherboard have a digital optical output?
  If you do have optical output, then try an optical cable from motherboard to Mix-amp.
  The DAC in the mix-amp might be better then the DAC in your motherboard.
  Also using optical allows you 5.1 channel surround sound with headphones.
  The 3.5mm to RCA is only 2 channel (stereo).


----------



## AxelDaemon

-facepalm- I figured I should've mentioned I knew all this before hand so you didn't have to post all that.  But I appreciate everyone's concern.
   
  @NamelessPFG, PurpleAngel: Nope absolutely not, it definitely was meant for the convenience of being able to hook up a PS3, etc and for the Dolby DSP and mainly game with it.  Music is a 2nd/last priority.  But it's the first thing I could do immediately so I figured I'd talk about it. I figured the sound quality would be affected, so I did have a suspicion that the mixamp would sort of "bottle neck" in terms of the quality. 
   
  And no the motherboard doesn't have an optical out, hence why I made do with hooking it up with a 3.5 Mini to RCA.  If I did I'd have mentioned that instead.  The only other AMP I was deciding on was the Fiio E9, but that was a "just in case" when the Q701 needed more juice while it was being used on the PS3 with chatting. 
   
  For that matter in the concept of "bottle necking" does this apply to sound chains?  For an extreme example.  Once you have a bad amp in the sound chain, it'll affect the rest/output right?
   
  In any case what other budget amps for music listening on the PC do you recommend?  Trying to remember on the terminology; I'd like for it to be "clean" and "neutral" when it outputs things.  Actually with the sound card (Titanium HD) having a built in amp (in all its connections or just one of em?) and connected together with something like the Fiio E9 is more than satisfactory right?
   
  EDIT: Actually googling around on Head-Fi it seems like the Fiio E9 is pretty satisfactory on a budget.  And this was meant as a stand alone AMP, what more with an amp from the sound card.
   
  Anywho the Titanium HD was already planned to be purchased later in the year and again music listening isn't on the top of my list, but I do casually listen to music from time to time.  The priorities I set out first was "get the headphone worry bout the amps later." as someone once said.  And when my PS3 comes I needed the Mixamp for hook-up.  Then the microphone for modding to the Q701 later on, that way I can use it while chatting.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Oh, I see now. The Mixamp was for your PS3 all along, but it's just a placeholder on the PC side of things until you can bring in the rest of the gear.
   
  The Titanium HD + FiiO E9 should be enough for your Q701, if the E9's reputation around here is anything to go by.


----------



## Eric_C

Hey guys, I'd appreciate any advice on an issue I'd raised before: MixAmp (pre 2010) + 2nd amp (iBasso T3), what would you recommend the MixAmp's volume to be?
   
  Comparing JH13 to DT880 on MixAmp only (with Mass Effect 3), I could hear crackly distortion with the 880 but not the 13, every time I made a mass effect relay jump.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> -facepalm- I figured I should've mentioned I knew all this before hand so you didn't have to post all that.  But I appreciate everyone's concern.
> @NamelessPFG, PurpleAngel: Nope absolutely not, it definitely was meant for the convenience of being able to hook up a PS3, etc and for the Dolby DSP and mainly game with it.  Music is a 2nd/last priority.  But it's the first thing I could do immediately so I figured I'd talk about it. I figured the sound quality would be affected, so I did have a suspicion that the mixamp would sort of "bottle neck" in terms of the quality.
> And no the motherboard doesn't have an optical out, hence why I made do with hooking it up with a 3.5 Mini to RCA.  If I did I'd have mentioned that instead.  The only other AMP I was deciding on was the Fiio E9, but that was a "just in case" when the Q701 needed more juice while it was being used on the PS3 with chatting.
> For that matter in the concept of "bottle necking" does this apply to sound chains?  For an extreme example.  Once you have a bad amp in the sound chain, it'll affect the rest/output right?
> ...


 

 Try hooking the Q701 straight into the Titanium HD first, maybe you will not need the E9.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Did you even read what was being said?... 
 Quote: 





manhattan75 said:


> Need a tissue?


----------



## Jodiuh

AxelDaemon:
Have u ever worn a pair of Sennheiser HD580/600/650's or Beyerdynamic DT880/990 Premiums? Minimal clamping force, very comfy pads, fantastic headband. The AKGs fail on all 3 fronts. The headband doesn't extend out enough, too much clamp, super hard pads, and a stupid rigid no cushion headband. Look at Sennheisers line with the soft inch of cushion up top. I'm just saying AKG didn't even try when compared to the competition.

That said, their superior soundstage allows for a vey different, very immersive experience that I'm really beginning to enjoy. It's just that some modifications will be needed to match what I'm used to...a well worn in pair of sennheisers and Beyers.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Nope, pretty much a newborn baby at all of this.  So the Q701 is my first.  (Well 2nd if you count the A40 as a first hah)


----------



## mindbomb

question about dolby headphone:
  Isn't it best to use it with IEM headphones? Assuming the game actually has surround sound.
   
  Cause then you will have 5.1>stereo with hrtf information for surround with dolby headphone, and that should go directly to the ear drum I imagine.
   
  If it touches the head and outer ear, then your own hrtf will be interfering with the dolby one, no?
   
  specifically, I think something like the yamaha eph 100 should technically be the best if this is true, since it is designed to not deflect off the ear canal as much as other iem.
   
   
  Also, I don't know if this has been brought up before, but for pc gaming, you have to:
  1. Tell the game to output 5.1 to windows (set 5.1 in audio options)
  2. Tell windows to output 5.1 to the sound card (set 5.1 in audio control panel)
  3. Tell the sound card to use dolby headphone on the incoming 5.1
   
  If you don't maintain 5.1 till the very end, the spatial aspect of the sound gets pretty much destroyed.
   
  Consoles, I imagine you just tell the thing to output dolby 5.1 via spdif, and then tell your mixamp, which presumably automatically decodes it,  to use dolby headphone.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> If it touches the head and outer ear, then your own hrtf will be interfering with the dolby one, no?
> 
> specifically, I think something like the yamaha eph 100 should technically be the best if this is true, since it is designed to not deflect off the ear canal as much as other iem.


 
  No and No.. I think your outer ear has alot to do with positioning and how we as humans tell how and where sounds are coming from..
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





i95north said:


> No and No.. I think your outer ear has alot to do with positioning and how we as humans tell how and where sounds are coming from..


 

 Except that's what HRTFs are supposed to copy in the first place...
   
  He could actually be right but it depends on how Dolby designed their algorithm.  Since IEMs aren't at all common outside of our little ivory tower I wouldn't be surprised if DH was optimized for normal headphones instead.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> He could actually be right but it depends on how Dolby designed their algorithm.  Since IEMs aren't at all common outside of our little ivory tower I wouldn't be surprised if DH was optimized for normal headphones instead.


 


  Sounds reasonable. Also: DT 880 > JH13 on a MixAmp, so unless JH don't know what they're doing with their flagship product... I think DH is definitely better with full-sized headphones.


----------



## Phos

I don't think BA's have the treble for HRTFs.  Plus, the Microphones don't go that deep into the ear canal of the subjects.  
   
  That said, this same sentiment is what often has me question the desirability of angled drivers for HRTFs.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> I don't think BA's have the treble for HRTFs.  Plus, the Microphones don't go that deep into the ear canal of the subjects.


 

 Even cheap single BA IEMs will go 15kHz pretty easily so I don't think that's an issue.
   
  People have reported good results using with JH13s with the Realiser despite skipping the headphone EQ measurement because you can't actually do it.
   
  The HRTF DSPs I've used IEMs (even cheap single driver ones) do the azimuth and elevation almost perfectly but still compress the range quite a lot compared to full size 'phones.  IME it's hard to match what you're hearing with what you're seeing using IEM with such DSPs when looking at a screen playing a game of watching a movie because of mismatch in distance between what you're seeing and hearing.
   
  If I'm just listening to music or something (I use TB Isone for all my music) I can close my eyes and it all perfect but trying to match it with a screen ruins the illusion for me.  I think you might need something personalized like the Realiser to get the distance right with IEMs
   
  Unfortunately for this discussion, none of those HRTF DSPs I've used were DH.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> Consoles, I imagine you just tell the thing to output dolby 5.1 via spdif, and then tell your mixamp, which presumably automatically decodes it,  to use dolby headphone.


 


  Bingo


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Even cheap single BA IEMs will go 15kHz pretty easily so I don't think that's an issue.
> 
> People have reported good results using with JH13s with the Realiser despite skipping the headphone EQ measurement because you can't actually do it.
> 
> ...


 


  I had a quick look at wikipedia's page on the subject and it sounds like HRTFs can only do azimuth and elevation beyond a very close range, it's down to the audio to deal with how far away something is.  For example, in an enclosed area in a game, a sound source at a distance would be mostly reflected audio, but I don't know if even the best environmental effects can do this.  Yeah, I try this in the rightmark positional audio test thing, EAX 4 HD, the sound coming from right next to the ear has the same distortion as as far away as the program allows for.  Maybe Rapture 3D can do it?


----------



## mindbomb

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Sounds reasonable. Also: DT 880 > JH13 on a MixAmp, so unless JH don't know what they're doing with their flagship product... I think DH is definitely better with full-sized headphones.


 


  just to follow up on this, you are talking about positioning, right?
   
  and you were sure you were sending dolby digital 5.1 via spdif from your xbox and you had dolby headphone enabled on the mixamp?


----------



## Eric_C

Yes, and yes. I'll take some screenshots and stuff tonight if anyone really needs them.


----------



## Omnom

Hello There
  I am new to these forums as I found that this was the place to ask about headphones. Now I currently on the search for a pair of headphones for myself, which I will use for gaming and music. I'm not so much of a competitive gamer but I do enjoy gaming and wish for a good pair. My music genres are dubstep, rock, pop, and generally anything that's recently come out. I do love my bass so I would prefer bass heavy headphones. I kind of wish for slightly stylish headphones like the AKG Q701 headphones but they are a tad over my budget of $100-$250
  Ok so what I've found so far:

 Beyer DT 770 Pro 80 ($150-$200):
http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-Pro-80-Closed-Studio-Headphones/dp/B0016MNAAI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1334117964&sr=8-3




   
  Beyer DT 880 32 Ohm ($270+):
http://www.amazon.com/Beyer-Dynamic-Premium-32-Headphones/dp/B0024NK358/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334118018&sr=8-1




   
  Ultrasone HFI 580 ($150-$190):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-HFI-580-Surround-Professional-Headphones/dp/B00101UHS8/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334118088&sr=1-1




   
  Ultrasone HFI 780 ($150-$200):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-HFI-780-Surround-Professional-Headphones/dp/B00101XVH2/ref=pd_cp_e_0




   
  Ultrasone Pro 550 ($150-$230):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-550-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000YDYEDW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334118168&sr=1-1




   
  Ultrasone Pro 750 ($225-$275):
http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-750-Professional-Headphones/dp/B000Y556M8/ref=pd_ybh_17




   
  Denon 1100 ($200-$300):
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AH-D1100-Advanced-Over-Ear-Headphones/dp/B0042ETXRQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334118239&sr=1-1#productPromotions




  
  Audio Technica ATH M50 ($150+):
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M50-Professional-Monitor-Headphones/dp/B000ULAP4U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1334118850&sr=1-1




   
  Audio Technica Pro 700 MK2 ($200):
  
  Vmoda Crossfade LP2 ($200):
   
  M-Audio Q40 ($135-$150):
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-Closed-back-Dynamic-Headphones/dp/B000XT8JTM/ref=pd_ybh_20




   
  Shure SRH840 ($140-$160):
http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH840-Professional-Monitoring-Earphones/dp/B002DP8IEK/ref=pd_ybh_24




   
  I know this is a wide range of studio and monitor headphones but out of these I wish to know which one has the best bass and sound clarity. Also I'm not so sure about the open and closed headphones, so If someone could inform me it would be great. Also I will be sometimes be wearing these in public so some thought of style is needed to be considered. 
   
  Ok so I hear that using a portable amp is necessary for some higher Ohm headphones but will I need one? If I were to get one could I just get the cheaper FiiO E6. Please note that this has to be included in the budget.

 Alright it's quite a lot and this took me a while to write but please remember, the cheaper the better!

 Thanks
   
  Sorry also if you were to rank these from best to worst for gaming then for music it would be great e.g.
   
  Games:
  denon ah d1100
  sennheiser hd 280 pro
   
  Music:
  Sennheiser HD 280 Pro
  Denon AH D1100
   
  Thanks again


----------



## Eric_C

This is a gaming thread. Have you checked the first post for answers to your question? Some of the models you listed are already ranked there.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Omnom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Now I currently on the search for a pair of headphones for myself, which I will use for gaming and music....*I do love my bass so I would prefer bass heavy headphones.*
> ...


 
   
   
  A lot of the headphones you listed are bass heavy _and_ have lousy soundstage - which is generally a bad combo for gaming.  Things like the Denon D1100, Audio Technica Pro 700 MK2, Vmoda Crossfade LP2, M-Audio Q40, and even M50 all fall under that category.  Also, on the first page/first post, MLE said the Sennheiser HD280 are lousy for gaming...
   
  If you want headphones that will do well for gaming, they need to have at least a decent soundstage.  Open headphones do soundstage better than closed ones, but they usually don't match them on bass.  Also open will leak more (in public). 
  So, you can see it's difficult to find _one _headphone that meets all your criteria.  If you want one headphone for both you may have to sacrifice some bass for soundstage or vice a versa.  More expensive headphones like DT990 Pro do good with both.
  Or just buy two pairs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Denon D2000, and Beyerdynamic DT770, DT88, DT990 should all be decent.  Never heard ultrasones before.  But again, I would stay away from things like AT Pro 700 Mk2, and Denon D1100 because those may be good for your music but they would be lousy for gaming.


----------



## Omnom

Thanks for that reply 
 But I'm not really a competitive gamer just a casual one who likes the odd game or 2 of bf3. I would however like to know where i am being shot from so would the Pro 700 MKII or any others do that job?
 Thanks


----------



## mindbomb

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Yes, and yes. I'll take some screenshots and stuff tonight if anyone really needs them.


 


  No, I think that won't be necessary.
   
  One more question:
   
  What was the degree of the difference?
   
  Was it dramatically worse?


----------



## Eric_C

I wouldn't put a number to it--that sort of thing is a pointless exercise. Bearing in mind that I'm commenting on JH13 vs DT 880 for gaming on a MixAmp only, I will say it like this: no contest. 
   
  I thought that I'd get the JH13 and sell everything else off, but partly because of sentimental reasons, and partly because it just performs better for gaming, I kept the DT 880.
   
  Now, if someone would like to chime in on my MixAmp distortion issue...


----------



## Heretic817

ANYONE....bit of help
   
  I have an Astro Mix Amp
   
  After much searching on Head Fi I just ordered an ATH-AD900 (fingers crossed)
   
  The question is this:
   
  I am thinking about adding a FiiO E17 into the mix.
   
  1. Good or bad idea?
   
  2. If good how does one get that all hooked up correctly?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> ANYONE....bit of help
> 
> I have an Astro Mix Amp
> 
> ...


 


  Do you already have a FiiO E17?  AD900 don't need the extra amp power, but I can see it being a good idea if you want to use the E17's *EQ*.  AD900 are bass light, so you could EQ their bass up with the E17.  Of course, if you are EQing them a bunch, you should probably be using different headphones.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  To hook it up you would just run a mini to mini cable (3.5mm male to male) from the mixamp's headphone jack (or Y-splitter if your doing voice chat) to the E17's "AUX" in. 
   
  If you don't already have an E17, I might say "bad idea" - or at least "expensive idea"...


----------



## Heretic817

OK. Good info. Thanks.
   
  Let me say this. I only just begun my affair with this money hungry audio mistress. I needed to game at night so I went cheap annd bought skull candy ear buds.what was I thinking!?!? = Garbage, gunshots sound like BB's purely stupid thinking on my part
   
  Took em' back and bought $30 pair of Sony on ear phones = Thought OK now I am on to something...... then screw that go big
   
  I bought Astro Mix Amp and Razer Carcharias for MW2, Assassins Creed etc.  Dolby Headphone + Open Cans = Mind Blown
   
  Inevitably I started to think this surely this could get better. Which set me on collision course with all you wonderfull Hi-Fi peoples.
   
  So, please take into acount this is my first pair of real headphones.
   
  I wanted open for Dolby Headphone for gaming + Decent for movies music + No amp for MP3 player and because my wallet can only stand so much for what is only getting my big toe wet in the Hi-Fi pond.
   
  I hope I made a good choice with the ATH-AD900 after all I came to this conclusion, all things considered after hours and hours, of reviews and posts.
   
  I THINK I made a good choice for my first cans considering the above....yeah??


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





phos said:


> I had a quick look at wikipedia's page on the subject and it sounds like HRTFs can only do azimuth and elevation beyond a very close range, it's down to the audio to deal with how far away something is.  For example, in an enclosed area in a game, a sound source at a distance would be mostly reflected audio, but I don't know if even the best environmental effects can do this.  Yeah, I try this in the rightmark positional audio test thing, EAX 4 HD, the sound coming from right next to the ear has the same distortion as as far away as the program allows for.  Maybe Rapture 3D can do it?


 

 The sound itself is definitely a large part of it but I do get different amounts of distance with different headphones.


----------



## mindbomb

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Except that's what HRTFs are supposed to copy in the first place...


 
   
  Yea, exactly.
   
  Let me elaborate on what I'm saying to make it more clear:
   
  So, dolby headphone takes 5.1 audio, converts it to stereo audio that has surround information that can be decoded by the brain.
   
  The pinna, the concha, and the head, in a sense, is also designed to take surround sound and convert it to stereo audio that has surround information that can be decoded by the brain.
   
  So, what I'm saying, is that if you have one, you don't need the other, and both together may interfere with one another.
   
  So, it follows that IEMs may actually be the best solution for dolby headphone gaming, since they go directly in the ear canal, and avoid the additional "processing" done by some of the outer ear and head structures.
   
  This could lead to a paradigm shift from the notion that open headphones with huge drivers are best suited for gaming.
   
  That being said, I do currently use an audio technica ad700 with dolby headphone in TF2, and find the surround very convincing.
  I will do a comparison with shure se215 when I get home (not sure when that will be though).


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> Yea, exactly.
> 
> Let me elaborate on what I'm saying to make it more clear:


 

 I think the issue is that we don't really know what target Dolby was aiming for when they designed the algorithm.  You can make one that works just as well either way.  You can include or exclude whatever physical effect you want.  Dolby would either have to spill the beans or we'd need a large sample of people stating which one worked best for them.  HRTFs are all individual anyway and a generic algorithm like DH can only aim for an average so different people can have different results.
   
  Given the general consensus that IEMs don't work to well with DH it seems likely that Dolby's target was normal headphones.  OTOH, it may also be that not enough people have tried IEMs or tried the right IEMs so it may be that the ones who have chimed in saying that IEMs don't work are just outliers.
   
  Given all that I think it would be best for newcomers to start out with the current consensus.  It's the safest bet.  Of course that shouldn't discourage future experimentation which might lead to a new and better consensus.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> So, it follows that IEMs may actually be the best solution for dolby headphone gaming, since they go directly in the ear canal, and avoid the additional "processing" done by some of the outer ear and head structures.
> 
> This could lead to a paradigm shift from the notion that open headphones with huge drivers are best suited for gaming.


 

  
  I hear what your saying, and it makes sense that you should avoid adding in additional "processing" from the interaction between your ear/head structure and headphone drivers ontop of the dolby headphone signal.
   
_Let me say that I haven't used many IEMs myself (certainly not good ones :s ) so this is mostly speculation... _
 From my experience, a headphone's/IEM's soundstage plays a_ very important part_ in actually extracting those positioning and distance cues that are embedded in a Dolby Headphone signal.  When I say "soundstage" I'm talking about several things: like separation, imaging/positioning, size (height, depth, width), etc. 
   
  Non-binaural stereo music has cues too, the cues just aren't as good as binaural recordings (which use special mics that record HRTFs, resulting in better spacial cues).  I think the general consensus is that it's harder for IEMs to handle those cues as adeptly as full size headphones.  I'm assuming this is a (limitation?) of their design....

 So even though IEMs avoid/bypass the extra HRTF effects from full size headphones and give you a more direct/pure/whatever signal to your ear drum, their inherent soundstage perhaps isn't able to take advantage of those cues the same way full size headphones can. 
   
  Maybe someone with nicer IEMs (better soundstage) can chime in.


----------



## chicolom

All I have are JVC Marshmellows  :\


----------



## He11fire217

chicolom said:


> All I have are JVC Marshmellows  :\




The way I've always looked at it is, that's why speakers > headphones > IEMs (and not necessarily just for gaming, I mean in general) when it comes to realism; the natural reflections are what make it sound lifelike, whether that's reflections from your ear or your acoustic space. IEMs have to attempt to replicate that in whatever way they can. 

I was "raised" a purist when it comes to all things audio-related, though, so I generally hate (read: refuse to use) EQs or really anything that affects the intended sound in any way. The only exception to that is Dolby Headphone and I only use that for gaming or the occasional movie.


----------



## Eric_C

Heretic: so your AD900 is on the way? Try them out first and see if you like them. It's always a bad idea to shop for extra gear before you've tried out what you've already bought.
   
  Maverick, Chicolom, mindbomb: Fascinating stuff you guys are discussing. I'm wondering, should we agree on what IEMs have "good" soundstage? E.g. would the IE8 cut it?


----------



## mindbomb

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> I think the issue is that we don't really know what target Dolby was aiming for when they designed the algorithm.  You can make one that works just as well either way.  You can include or exclude whatever physical effect you want.  Dolby would either have to spill the beans or we'd need a large sample of people stating which one worked best for them.  HRTFs are all individual anyway and a generic algorithm like DH can only aim for an average so different people can have different results.
> 
> Given the general consensus that IEMs don't work to well with DH it seems likely that Dolby's target was normal headphones.  OTOH, it may also be that not enough people have tried IEMs or tried the right IEMs so it may be that the ones who have chimed in saying that IEMs don't work are just outliers.
> 
> Given all that I think it would be best for newcomers to start out with the current consensus.  It's the safest bet.  Of course that shouldn't discourage future experimentation which might lead to a new and better consensus.


 

 yea, i agree with everything you say here, and have been saying since my original post, I just wanted to make sure people understood what i was talking about.
   
  Especially with the last thought there, yea, I don't want I've said to discourage people from buying the recommended headphones in this thread, since there is not enough evidence to suggest that the IEM route would be better at this point.
   
  @chicolom
  Yes, what you said about non-binaural tracks and IEM's limited sound stage is true afaik.
  However, when you do actually have the luxury of a surround sound source and dolby headphone processing, it is completely plausible for all that to go out the window.
  The sound stage problem shouldn't really matter in this case imo because the audio itself has already been altered so that the brain can derive surround information from it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I'm wondering, should we agree on what IEMs have "good" soundstage? E.g. would the IE8 cut it?


 
   
  There is a link in my sig of what some other head-fiers think are good IEMs for soundstage...


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> There is a link in my sig of what some other head-fiers think are good IEMs for soundstage...


 


  Très nice.
   
  Copy+pasting here for everyone else's benefit:
   
  
 AKG:                     K3003
 Aurisonics:             ASG-1
 Denon:                  C710, C751
 Earsonics:              SM3
 Final Audio:            FI-BA-SS
 HifiMAN:                RE-262
 JVC:                     FX700  |  FXC-51
 MEElectronics:        M9
 Sennheiser:           IE7, IE8, IE80
 Sony:                   EX510, EX600, EX1000
 TFTA:                  1XB, 1V
 Phonak Audeo:       PFE 112
 Ultimate Ears:        Reference Monitors
 Westone:              Westone 2
 Xeport:                 5010-8
 Yamaha:               EPH-100


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Maverick, Chicolom, mindbomb: Fascinating stuff you guys are discussing. I'm wondering, should we agree on what IEMs have "good" soundstage? E.g. would the IE8 cut it?


 
   
  I don't really know.  There are a lot of factors and too many factors I don't have any info on.  I started typing something up but it was going to get overly long and complicated, even for me, so I gave up.  Maybe sometime later...
   
  Quote: 





mindbomb said:


> yea, i agree with everything you say here, and have been saying since my original post, I just wanted to make sure people understood what i was talking about.
> 
> Especially with the last thought there, yea, I don't want I've said to discourage people from buying the recommended headphones in this thread, since there is not enough evidence to suggest that the IEM route would be better at this point.


 

 Cool.  Maybe I was misunderstanding you a little.
   
  Let us know how your Shures work out.  I'd test my IEMs with DH but I don't have a mixamp or any hardware implementation of it.  I just hang out here for this kind of technical stuff.  I could use the DH plugin for foobar if I had any multichannel music or something to play though it.  Using an upmixer on stereo stuff would amount to tailoring it to my own headphones and HRTF and not be very useful to anyone else here.


----------



## Indread

So I've got a few questions...
   
  Dolby Headphone and CMSS both require hardware for processing right? Meaning, either a soundcard capable of it, or something like the MixAmp. Is there a way to do this without upgrading my soundcard on my PC?
   
  Would a program like Isone Pro work for games? It has a feature which allows surround sound, and increased soundstage, when listening to music.  I was wondering if this could work for games also. This seems like an alternative to purchasing a soundcard.
   
  Lastly, is it possible to connect a PS3 to a computer, so Isone Pro can provide the surround sound?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





indread said:


> So I've got a few questions...
> 
> Dolby Headphone and CMSS both require hardware for processing right? Meaning, either a soundcard capable of it, or something like the MixAmp. Is there a way to do this without upgrading my soundcard on my PC?
> 
> ...


 

 In theory, it's quite possible in software. In practice, making it work in games without the proper hardware is quite troublesome. It's much easier and more practical to just get a sound card, especially when the only possibly useful software solutions still cost money.
   
  Isone Pro/TB_Isone/etc. is useless for gaming, because it's a Winamp/VST/etc. media player plugin. Games cannot interface with such things.
   
  You could connect a PS3's S/PDIF output to a PC, but then you have the problem of not being able to decode Dolby Digital or DTS at the driver level, meaning you either get stereo PCM or absolutely nothing. Many other people have already tried and failed to make a PC with a sound card serve as a makeshift Mixamp...


----------



## Eric_C

Edit: Ah, phooey, none of my points matter now that namelesspfg's on the case.


----------



## Heretic817

Agreed. I am an Engineering Tech (R&D). One variable at a time. Just sweating this whole "bass light" thing as I do want explosions to have a little feeling. If "bass light" means good for sound wh@ring and bugger all else I will be disappointed.
   
  I dunno given I wanted low impedance, open sound stage, good for Dolby Headphone, all round, under $250, and so on. After a long search I felt like I was boxed into either the:
  AD700, AD900, HD558, HD598
   
  The HD's were sounding real sexy but after reading about the cracking plastic near the cans over and over I got gun shy. Anything at the $200 mark (I feel) should not have a problem like that.
  So, given that I eventually went for the easy to drive with better bass and clarity AD900 (based on what I read here).
   
  If the bass is lacking for things like DnB or Rap, and it sounds like they will be, if I am otherwise happy I may just get a second pair of cans to compliment the AD900's.
   
  Any suggestions?? Off the cuff I was thinking the V-Moda M50's based on the 2011 Christmas Gift Guide from Head Fi.


----------



## Hailin

The newer Senns HD598's don't have the cracking issue anymore. I have had mine since winter and I haven't seen any cracks. I love mine for music and tv shows. I have some DT990 pros if I want that head thump. Biotic Explosions + DT's = a deaf me.
   
  Someone mentioned about the mass effect relay distortion on a Mixamp. I have the same issue with my Beyers. I just started pulling them off my head when I went to a relay. I don't know why that sound needs to be louder then every effect in the game.


----------



## Heretic817

Good to know. I was really thinking about the 598's. Honestly, I hate the color though I could forgive them if they sound good enough.
   
  I think I will make a "Total Noob shares thoughts about AD900's" thread after they get here. The reason I was thinking something else to compliment the AD900 is that even the 598's get comments about not really having FULL bass and as stated before I do likes the DnB.
   
  Also, to be clear the reason I posted here and not somewhere else is this:
   
  At work I listen to ear buds half the damn day.
   
  At home 85% I am gaming.
   
  At home 10% music while smoking outside on MP3 player.
   
  At home 5% watching movies on headphones.
  
  As far as the gaming...50% MW3/MW2 online FPS and 50% whatever game (Skyrim ruining my life)
   
  So, given all that you might see why the AD900 vs. HD958 ended up being my dilemma.


----------



## Heretic817

Someone tell me that the ATH-AD900 was not a stupid choice given what I was going for.


----------



## Indread

Thanks Nameless, that helps a lot. 
   
  Does anyone know if using an amp with the Mixamp/DSS muddy or decrease the surround sound it produces in anyway? Since different amps have different affects on the sound signature, I'm thinking it's possible it would impact the surround as well.


----------



## Heretic817

Hey all. I am throwing this in the ring. It's an article on Impedance both as a general concept and as it applies to audio. I skimmed it and found it to be a bit better than the explanation I found elsewhere on this site.
   
  I know bugger all about headphones but I do know Impedance. Hell I spent 4 years behind a Spectrum Analyzer in EMI/RFI testing.
   
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan03/articles/impedanceworkshop.asp


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





indread said:


> Thanks Nameless, that helps a lot.
> Does anyone know if using an amp with the Mixamp/DSS muddy or decrease the surround sound it produces in anyway? Since different amps have different affects on the sound signature, I'm thinking it's possible it would impact the surround as well.


 

 So you talking about daisy chaining a headphone amplifier on to the headphone output on a Astro Mix-amp or onto a Turtle Beach DSS?
  I doubt daisy chaining affects the surround sound feature, I think "adding noise" to the signal is more likely to be the problem.
  Some have daisy chained something like a Fiio E9 on to a Mix-amp and were happy with the setup.


----------



## MrTam

Has anybody compared the Samson SR850 and AD700. How do these two stack up against each other.
   
   
  Competitive:?/10
   
  Fun:?/10 
   
  I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this, thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrtam said:


> Has anybody compared the Samson SR850 and AD700. How do these two stack up against each other.
> Competitive:?/10
> Fun:?/10
> I would greatly appreciate some feedback on this, thanks


 

 I own both, very very rarely ever wear the ATH-AD700.
  I like to hear bass in audio.


----------



## MrTam

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I own both, very very rarely ever wear the ATH-AD700.
> I like to hear bass in audio.


 
   
  So, the Samson SR850 is better for Gaming and music, when compared to the ATH-AD700?


----------



## Indread

I discovered that the newer DSS2's use the [size=small]CVT (Cirrus® Virtualizer Technology) algorithm. Never heard of it.[/size]


----------



## Indread

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> So you talking about daisy chaining a headphone amplifier on to the headphone output on a Astro Mix-amp or onto a Turtle Beach DSS?
> I doubt daisy chaining affects the surround sound feature, I think "adding noise" to the signal is more likely to be the problem.
> Some have daisy chained something like a Fiio E9 on to a Mix-amp and were happy with the setup.


 
   
  Yeah, to "double-amp" in case I need more juice. It would depend on the headphones obviously. Is there a way to reduce noise if I go this route? Some kind of filter?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





indread said:


> I discovered that the newer DSS2's use the [size=small]CVT (Cirrus® Virtualizer Technology) algorithm. Never heard of it.[/size]


 
   
  Oh?  Interesting.... Where did you find this information at?  I've never heard of that DSP before...
   
  Quote: 





indread said:


> Yeah, to "double-amp" in case I need more juice. It would depend on the headphones obviously. Is there a way to reduce noise if I go this route? Some kind of filter?


 
   
  I think if the headphones are power-hungry enough to require double-amping, noise will probably be out of the audible range anyways. 
   
  What headphones are you using?


----------



## chicolom

Good News:  I think Astro's Wireless MixAmp 5.8 is available stand-alone again!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Regarding IEMs, I can assure (from my point of view and testing) that IEMs definitely do not make good phones for DHP gaming. I have tested this with SHURE SE425 (DHP is awful and those Shure are extremely revealing). IE8 from Sennheiser has better soundstage, wider, is less analytical but still, gaming with them is nowhere near fullsize headphones which DHP was actually developed for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't understand why anyone wants to double amp the AD900. Aren't they like the AD700 in terms of how much power they need? The AD700 is incredibly easy to drive, so if the AD900's power requirements are close to the same... the Mixamp or whatever device you have should be fine.


----------



## novadragon849

Hi, I recently wanted to start gaming with headphones after trying them round my friends and it was amazing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I was hoping if anyone can help me as I'm a noob at this stuff. With this setup, I want to not only play games on the 360/ps3 and pc but watch films and listen to music as well and was wondering if this is the best setup to go for.
   
  I was going to get the HD558's and mod it to a '598' so people call it. (It is generally agreed that modding the 558's make it better right?)
   
  I was going to team it up with the Astro Mixamp as well.
   
  Is this setup good for non-competitive gaming as I'm not really into COD but play games like God of War etc which really is action packed and I can see it really shining with good sound as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Now I have read the beginning post and the 598 review which I believe will be quite close to the modded 558, it said that competitive wise its amazing but the fun level is only 6/10. Would you guys recommend me another set or will the 558's suffice for the budget I have?
   
  I have a budget of around £200 / $320. Then after buying the Astro mixamp, I'm left with approximately £110 / $170 for headphones. Are the 558's the best I can do with my remaining money?
   
  Thanks guys!


----------



## Ra97oR

Hmm, same finding on the TF2 DH test as my own Essence's DH settings. Around the same imaging but far better precision without DH on. =/


----------



## Heretic817

I game on both but have an X-Box Controller for my PC....Although I love my RTS games which never port well to consoles you NEED a mouse for those. Don't get me wrong my I love my PS3 it is a wonderfull machine but it can't hold a candle to the raw horse power of my PC rig. It's hard for me to buy some games for my PS3 when I know my PC will just look that much better.
   
  Great post BTW.
   
  I will get my ATH-AD900's today for use with my Mixamp. This is my first pair of $100+ headphone. I hope they will be good.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *novadragon849* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Hi, I recently wanted to start gaming with headphones after trying them round my friends and it was amazing
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I really do like the sound of my Senn HD558s (black rubber tape removed).
  Superlux is a good low cost alternative to the Sennheisers
  Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) are a good bang for the buck.
  The AKG K240/241/270 velour ear pads fit on the Samson SR850.


----------



## Indread

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Oh?  Interesting.... Where did you find this information at?  I've never heard of that DSP before...
> 
> 
> I think if the headphones are power-hungry enough to require double-amping, noise will probably be out of the audible range anyways.
> ...


 
   
  It was a response to a question I had about the DSS, from Turtle Beach's technical support.
   
  I'm considering modded Orthos, and possibly Electrets. Seems like these may be a good combination with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I really do like the sound of my Senn HD558s (black rubber tape removed).
> Superlux is a good low cost alternative to the Sennheisers
> Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) are a good bang for the buck.
> The AKG K240/241/270 velour ear pads fit on the Samson SR850.


 
   
   
_A friend of mine is getting a wireless mixamp and I'm helping him get sub $100 gaming phones..._

 By Superlux you mean HD668B?
   
  Which would you recommend for gaming, SR850 or HD668B?  The SR850 is 32 ohms, does it pick up hiss in your experience? 
   
  Also, do you know where to get the AKG velours?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
  I own both the HD668B & SR850, but the HD668B broke last year, so can not directly compare.
  I have the SR850s with me this second, but I'm using them on someone else's computer with on-board sound on a 5 year old motherboard, not a fair test.
  Thomann is Germany sells the AKG Velour ear pads.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I own both the HD668B & SR850, but the HD668B broke last year, so can not directly compare.
> I have the SR850s with me this second, but I'm using them on someone else's computer with on-board sound on a 5 year old motherboard, not a fair test.
> Thomann is Germany sells the AKG Velour ear pads.


 
   
   
  Thomann is quoting me 30 EUR shipping!  That's twice the cost of the pads themselves 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I guess it would be cheaper to get them from headroom > http://www.headphone.com/accessories/headphone-parts/akg-k271-s-cushions-pair.php
   
   
  The SR850 and 668B look like clones to me (beside the impedance difference).  I'm leaning towards the Samsons, I'm just worried they will pick up hiss from the wireless mixamp....


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
  When I ordered from Thomann, it was for 2 headphones and 3 pairs of AKG Velour pads, which works out to about $8 shipping for each item.
  Just use the stock pads with the SR850.
  On the hiss, i have no idea.


----------



## I95North

HD681 superlux cans moded with audio technica drivers..
   
  niceeeee....


----------



## Eric_C

I'm assuming you'll post this in the For Sale sub-forum too?
  And no info on _how_ they sound?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





i95north said:


> I have two sets of HD681 superlux cans moded with audio technica drivers..


 

 Interesting... I'm still not sure why you didn't put them in the AD700 frame.  I thought that was why you got them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> And no info on _how_ they sound?


 
   
  x2


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I'm assuming you'll post this in the For Sale sub-forum too?
> And no info on _how_ they sound?


 
   
  Edited above and moved..


----------



## mindbomb

oh wait, so, if you record a video with fraps, it will pick up the audio after it has been processed by the sound card (ie, already processed by dolby headphone)?
   
  Is that what is happening in OP's video?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Edited above and moved..


 
   
  If I'm reading it rightly:
  AD900 mod = AD700
  AD1000 mod = AD700 - some treble, soundstage, and bass?


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Interesting... I'm still not sure why you didn't put them in the AD700 frame.  I thought that was why you got them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah thats what i intended to do but changed my mind.
   
  Next came the big revelation could i just put these drivers in some other headset shell for a fraction of the cost of the originals being the drivers where inexpensive campared to the original audio technica headsets complete and be it an easy mod??
   
  Yes i did it
   
  also besides for people that don't have the big noggins just small narrow shaped heads the superlux is a snuger fit without floating all over the place like my ad700 does on my head now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why do people continue to misinform others? The 558 modded does not = 598. Just because it worked that way for the 555/595, people assume its the same for the new series? I though this was discredited almost as soon as these came out. Sigh...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why do people continue to misinform others? The 558 modded does not = 598. Just because it worked that way for the 555/595, people assume its the same for the new series? I though this was discredited almost as soon as these came out. Sigh...


 
   
  List the sites were this was discredited, I want to read up on this subject.


----------



## Eric_C

http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
http://www.head-fi.org/t/585653/hd-558-mod


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why do people continue to misinform others? The 558 modded does not = 598. Just because it worked that way for the 555/595, people assume its the same for the new series? I though this was discredited almost as soon as these came out. Sigh...


 
   
   
  I think it makes them closer, but not quite the same (FWIR).  They do have different internal housings after all...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/585653/hd-558-mod




Thank you, Eric.

That makes them close to each other kind of like the K701 and Q701, and most of us here agree that while they sound similar, are NOT the same. Surely different enough for me to hate one, and love the other. It appears that the differences with the modded 558 and stock 598 are even bigger.



They should call the 558 mod, just that, a MOD. Not a "make it a 598 mod", which is misinformation...period.

These things about head-fi, quite frankly... irk me.

Actually, the modded 558 may appeal to most people anyways, as it has more bass and a warmer tone... IF it had the same soundstage and positioning as the 598, these may be a better alternative for those that want stellar gaming cans that don't need them to be as mid rich as the 598, which is a bit too mid rich for me. More bass, and less mids would be what I'd have liked from the 598, lol. Not sure about the treble though, as I found the 598's treble to be spot on.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Why do people continue to misinform others? The 558 modded does not = 598. Just because it worked that way for the 555/595, people assume its the same for the new series? I though this was discredited almost as soon as these came out. Sigh...


 
   
  + 1


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Anyone been playing MW3 lately? I think they've fixed the sound. I distinctly remember upto a week or two ago, the sound was horrible to the extent I would hear footsteps in my left ear when the person was actually on my right. But now I'm catching people sneaking up on me again from quite a distance away (not the 2M radius I had before), like I used to on MW2, and can hear grenades and silenced weapons more clearly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People still playing that game? Lol. I keed.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> People still playing that game? Lol. I keed.


 
   
  lol Millions of people still play it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Spawns are still BS though (I literally spawned within knifing distance to someone in FFA).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sold that game within a week and went back to Blops for awhile. I sure as hell hope Blops 2 picks up MW3's slack.


----------



## I95North

Yeah mw3 is bad but I paid for it and also purchased elite so I deciede to keep playing it i just modified my playing tactics. 

Yup camping and sound whoreing works well when there is so much lag.


----------



## Heretic817

Just wanted to share my impression of the ATH-AD900  (TOTAL NOOB ALERT)
   
  OK I will be quick. I do like the sound for gaming. I can see why people say they are bass light. To be clear the Bass is all there and clear it's just as they say though. You can HEAR the bass but if you are looking to FEEL the bass that is where they fall short. Don't get me wrong I fired up some Hip Hop and some DnB tracks to really feel out the Bass and it was satisfying just no Doof Doof. It's just IMO the ones who say they have NO BASS!! are exaggerating a bit or maybe lean toward the Bass Head side of things.
   
  The Bass issue put aside the areas these are liked for I must agree with. Clarity is very impressive. In MW3 I felt surrounded in fine details with Dolby Headphone. Positioning was very clear if it was footsteps of helicopters or whatever I could easily tell where it was what it was, about how far, and what direction. Purely for sound wh@ring sound stage and clarity were pretty darn good. Although I would say the explosions just lacked some authority maybe a plus for competitive but a minus for fun. Gaming alone like Mass Effect 2 or Skyrim I can already tell is going to lack a certain magic but probably still provide a overall good experience. Also, though I felt for the explosions to feel nice I had to turn them up pretty loud so that highs could get a little peircing. Not a bad sound mind you just felt like a volume balancing act between satifying lows and the occasional uncomfortable high.
   
  All that being said. I am returning these. Not because they don't sound good. They sound really quite good in my opinion. The main reason I am turning right around and getting something else in a word Comfort. From what I read it was the least of what I was worried about. I dont' have a large head or ears that stick out but unless they are sitting just right the driver housing touches my ears very annoying. Also, these headphones are freakin' massive. The pads extend from my cheek bone all the way to the back of my head where the skull begins to curve it feels like I have both hands on the side of my head and to top it all off the comicly large size makes me look ridiculous. So all that is why am sending them back.
   
  OK sorry not trying to block the thead with a full on review just thought I would throw this out for consideration if the ATH-AD900 was on anyones short list. Just my opinion please no flames from fans of these phones. Am going to try out the HD 558's next. at least they won't make me look like a bad 1960's Sci-Fi Robot


----------



## Heretic817

Anyone have any input on the HD 558 as a second choice? See above: ATH-AD900 did not work out for me
   
  Need: Easy to drive without amp (MP3 player and what not)
   
  Mostly Gaming but not competitive mostly for fun
   
  Also, well rounded for music and movies
   
  Comfort
   
  Good sounding bass but don't need my teeth to rattle or anything
   
  Open and Over Ear for Dolby Headphone. Good sound stage is a plus for me.
   
  Music types: Rap/Hip Hop, DnB, Trance, Metal, Alternative Rock, Classic Rock (No real emphasis on either)
   
  Under $250


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Anyone have any input on the HD 558 as a second choice? See above: ATH-AD900 did not work out for me
> Need: Easy to drive without amp (MP3 player and what not)
> Mostly Gaming but not competitive mostly for fun
> Also, well rounded for music and movies
> ...


 
  My HD558s do sound good.


----------



## I95North

Purple Ang how does your K242HD's sound if you don't mind me asking??
   
  Also what do you think is your best headset for fps gaming that you have in your signature??
   
  Wow you have quite a few!


----------



## Heretic817

Do the HD 5xx series still have a problem with cracking??? Hearing about that is the whole reason I bought the AD900 over the HD 558 in the first place.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Purple Ang how does your K242HD's sound if you don't mind me asking??
> 
> Also what do you think is your best headset for fps gaming that you have in your signature??
> 
> Wow you have quite a few!


 
   
  The K242HD is nice, I ordered it with 4 other items in bulk from Thomann in Germany, cost for the K242HD came to $117.
  Good headphones for music.
   
  I'm not into FPS gaming, but I'm currently having a neighborhood teen test some of my headphones while he games, no feedback yet.
   
  If only my credit card would max out so I could not buy anymore headphones.
  I'm still looking at buying 2 or 3 more.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Do the HD 5xx series still have a problem with cracking??? Hearing about that is the whole reason I bought the AD900 over the HD 558 in the first place.


 
   
  I'm thinking the cracking is old news, at least my HD558s have no problems.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Do the HD 5xx series still have a problem with cracking??? Hearing about that is the whole reason I bought the AD900 over the HD 558 in the first place.


 
   
  That was fixed many months ago.


----------



## Heretic817

awesome. then that tears it. I'm going to try out the 558's and see if I like them better than the AD900


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the AD900 will beat out the HD558 in clarity.

I wonder how the HD558's tone compares to the PC360s. I'd say the PC360 is exactly what people say the HD558 is to the 598. Slightly more bass, slightly less clarity.


----------



## AxelCloris

So I'm officially in love with the positioning queues on my Q701s. They're also incredibly comfortable, the bumps don't bother me at all. There is only one thing I want to tweak, I want to add a bit more body to the low end, but without changing anything else for the sound. Mass Effect multiplayer is just phenomenal, but I do feel myself itching for a bit more boom with my biotics when playing single player. Anyone know of a way to add a bit more to the bottom without dropping the mids and highs? I did try adding my ZO2 between the mixamp and Q's but that killed the volume, using both high and low gain modes. Anyone done something similar?


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure the AD900 will beat out the HD558 in clarity.
> I wonder how the HD558's tone compares to the PC360s. I'd say the PC360 is exactly what people say the HD558 is to the 598. Slightly more bass, slightly less clarity.


 
   

 I would not be surprised if the clarity were better on the AD900 it was insanely good. Too bad I spent 50% of the time listening and 50% adjusting them on my head and ears to stay comfortable. That is just a deal breaker. My ears are probably considered small compared to most and the driver housing touching them was irritating and for the pads to cover not just most of the side of my head but to kind of rest on the cheek bone almost to my face I felt a little like this kid....
   
  (image missing)


----------



## Heretic817




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're not alone. That's how I felt with the AD700. Horrible in comfort. Soft velours, sure, but everything else was a pain in the ass. I had the same exact issues.

As for adding low end without taking away... impossible. That's not how audio works. Lows, mids, highs work in unison. You can't emphasize one thing without taking away something else. Adding a bit of bass will more than likely recess the mids, and on rare occasion, make treble less crisp.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Use your sound setting's EQ and increase the low end a TEENSY bit?  That's what I did with the X-fi etc test videos from Nameless' guide.  It certainly added more body doing that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Anyone know of a way to add a bit more to the bottom without dropping the mids and highs? I did try adding my ZO2 between the mixamp and Q's but that killed the volume, using both high and low gain modes. Anyone done something similar?


 
   
  The ZO2's amp must be pretty weak if turning up the mixamp and turning up the ZO2 on high gain still sounds quiet.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The mixamp 5.8 and DSS (version 1) both have bass boost.  The mixamp's bass boost is a bit muddier...


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're not alone. That's how I felt with the AD700. Horrible in comfort. Soft velours, sure, but everything else was a pain in the ass. I had the same exact issues.
> As for adding low end without taking away... impossible. That's not how audio works. Lows, mids, highs work in unison. You can't emphasize one thing without taking away something else. Adding a bit of bass will more than likely recess the mids, and on rare occasion, make treble less crisp.


 
   
   


 I don't think I said anything to the contrary?? I think I said I would not be at all surprised if the AD900 > HD 558 for clarity.
   
  Are you saying the HD 558 is bass light compared to the AD900? I had assumed the opposite just based on the reviews.
   
  Although, I have so little experience with this stuff any one of you audio buffs could baffle me with BS and I would simply believe you unless I heard for myself. LOL


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> mad lust envy said:
> ...


 
   
  I own the ATH-AD700s and the HD558s. The HD558s have more bass then the ATH-AD700
  Now I do wear some bass heavy headphones, DT990, and when I switch back to using the HD558, the bass is lighter then the DT990, but still very decent.
  So I would find it hard to believe that the AD900 would have more bass then the HD558s.
  Could the AD900 have a more quality sounding bass, maybe,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

heretic817 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What? No. I'm fairly certain the HD558 has more bass. I wouldn't trust open design Audio Technicas for bass.


----------



## Heretic817

UM, OK.


----------



## mindbomb

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> ...fullsize headphones which DHP was actually developed for.


 
   
  Well, having looked into it somewhat, it appears Dolby Headphone was developed with in ear canal based microphones, and essentially treats all headphones as IEM, because I think they assume, even in the case of circumaurals, that the outer ear's role is negligible.
   
  However, in the case of virtual speaker surround sound, rather than headphone surround sound, they do have to take into account the effect of the user's outer ear.


----------



## moppelh

Hello Guys
   
  I've been reading about Gaming Headphones to use with my PS3 for quite some time now, but only just decided on which one is my favorite.
   
  I want a versatile headphone, one that's great for gaming and good for other uses.  Im not a bass guy, but i want enough bass for the music (mostly rock, avant-garde electronic, and jazz variants) movies to have power.
   
  So, after reading a lot on it, i decided on getting the Q701.  They seem to be good-sounding, balanced, detailed, a bass-heavy enough for my taste.  With the HD598 being a VERY close second place.
  I'm on the right track, right?
   
   
   
  How's the durability on them?  I live on Brazil, and I'm importing the phones, if they break, well, I'm screwed.
   
  How's the comfort level between these two?  My hat size is 8.
   
  Can i use any other kind of amp or mixamp other than the Astros? They are kind of hard to find on line anywhere other than Astro's site, which does not ship to Brazil.  What other amps work well with Dolby Headphone? Information on this is scarce.
   
  How's the Mixamp on the Trittons? They cost the same as the Astro mixamp but come with the headphone (which can be resold!).
   
  How's the sound leakage? I don't live alone, but there's some leniency concerning sound.  Not so much, but there's some.  But I don't wanna feel like a walking boombox every time I'm playing.  I know they are open, and that they do leak.  For reference, the volume setting seems to be loud enough for most people on 50%. Whats the leakage like at that?  Loud enough to bother people watching TV at another room?
   
   
   
  And just as a curiosity for you.  The Q701 is currently 250 dollars on Amazon.  In Brazil, they go for 3000 Reais.  This is equivalent to 1600 dollars!  To put in perspective, its cheaper for me to hop on a plane to Miami (cheapest flight between Brazil and the US), buy my setup there and return, than it is to buy the stuff here in Brazil.  Brazilian taxes, duty fees, import rates and such are absolutely ridiculous!


----------



## aml417

Hi
 I'm searching for a good pair of headphones to use for playing call of duty competitivily (cod4:mw). My budget is 70$, that is with shipping included. I want good positioning audio and deepht to hear from where and how far someone is. So far I'm unsure about which headphones to choose, but theres some I have in mind:
 JVC HA-RX700 (I've heard that they are good for gaming, but I dont know how good they are for COMPETITIVE gaming)
 Superlux HD668B (I've read that they have good soundstage and detail, but I dont know how they are for gaming)
 Creative live aurvana (Will be getting these if no one can tell me how the above headphones perform)
 I would really appriciate if someone own any of these and could give their opinion.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





aml417 said:


> I'm searching for a good pair of headphones to use for playing call of duty competitivily (cod4:mw). My budget is 70$, that is with shipping included. I want good positioning audio and deepht to hear from where and how far someone is. So far I'm unsure about which headphones to choose, but theres some I have in mind:
> JVC HA-RX700 (I've heard that they are good for gaming, but I don't know how good they are for COMPETITIVE gaming)
> Superlux HD668B (I've read that they have good sound stage and detail, but I don't know how they are for gaming)
> Creative Live Aurvana (Will be getting these if no one can tell me how the above headphones perform)
> I would really appriciate if someone own any of these and could give their opinion.


 
  I would say go with the HD668B, your ears will last longer with semi-open headphones, the other two are closed.


----------



## lltfdaniel

Since i only care about positioning i prefer the akg 240 mk2 for that out of my collection due to its clean crystal clear sound.
   
  It was great when i played me3 the positioning was blatant for me anyway.
   
  Imo 7.1 is the best from the tf2 video.


----------



## aml417

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would say go with the HD668B, your ears will last longer with semi-open headphones, the other two are closed.


 
  Do you know how 3D positioning is with these? I dont really care how long my ears will last  Also, if someone can reccomend another set of headphones would be good.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I know its somewhere in here but whats the mic you guys are using with your HPs?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> I know its somewhere in here but whats the mic you guys are using with your HPs?


 
  The Zalman Zm-Mic1?
  It's currently $8.90 at Amazon.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





aml417 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> purpleangel said:
> ...


 
   
  Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) it's like the HD668B's half brother, has good feedback from gamers.
  Panasonic RP-HTF600-S, it's only $20 more for Velour pads for it.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Zalman Zm-Mic1?
> It's currently $8.90 at Amazon.


 
   
  I have that mic and can't do party chat without hearing the chat in the lobby.  There was another mic I saw and it was a bit more expensive than then the Zalman Zm-Mic1.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I think this is the mic. Its held on by a magnet.  



>


----------



## dreadful

Here's a link to it http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Thanks Dreadful!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


>


 
   
  Those look strangely familiar... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The modmic is pricier, but worth it IMO.  Clip-ons can suck it.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ya the clip on doesn't work well for me.  I have the PC360 but I'm thinking on selling it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Take that back! Right now! :mad:

My DX clip-on that cost me less than $3 works perfectly. 

Though if you were more specific like say...

The Zalman clip-on can suck it... then yes, I agree. 

Its sad that I spent over $30 for the Zalman and was appalled at how horrible it was.

IF my DX clip on messes up, I'll get the modmic myself.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Hrm, I see, well I went and got the LVA 7330 as recommended by the guide and plan on attaching it to the Q701 one way or another heh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axeldaemon said:


> Hrm, I see, well I went and got the LVA 7330 as recommended by the guide and plan on attaching it to the Q701 one way or another heh.




A legitimate alternative, though you have to sand off the headband, and find a way to attach it to your headphones. The double sided velcro didn't work well for me when I had the LVA7330. It was too heavy for the velcro.


----------



## AxelDaemon

How bout double sided tape?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sold the CAL with the LVA7330, didn't try tape.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Zalman clip-on can suck it... then yes, I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  $30?!  WTH, I think I spent $8 on it...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

If anyone is interested in a PC360 pm me.  I did the hd555 grill mod on them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




They were a bit more expensive before, sadly.


----------



## Nujabes

As many others have stated, fantastic thread MLE. Thanks for all the help you give gamers out there.
   
  I'm just getting into this expensive headphone business so bear with me.
   
  I have some questions about what headphone would work best to compliment my AD700s. I currently use the AD700s connected to an Astro mixamp for competitive gaming and it works great, but using them for casual fun gaming, movie watching, music listening, etc. isn't the greatest experience. I'd like to pick up a fun headphone to fix this. 
   
  I'm considering the DT770 pro 80s and the DT990 pros so far as a result of my $200 budget. I don't plan on getting an amp, I just plan on using the mixamp.
   
  I like the clarity I've heard in the AD700; does the DT770 pro 80's powerful bass take clarity away from its sound a great deal? Or am I misunderstanding how its heavy bass affects the headphone? Loss of clarity might be a turn-off for me.
   
  How does the DT990 pro compare to the DT770 pro 80 for gaming purposes? I've heard that the DT990 pro is like the DT770 pro 80 but with slightly less bass and better clarity of sound. They are relatively close in price so I'm wondering if the few extra bucks for the DT990 pro is worth it.
   
  Also, would using the DT990 pro with a mixamp alone take away any advantage it has over the DT770 pro 80 in sound quality? I don't really understand how that impedance stuff can affect sound quality.
   
  Thank you all for your help!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pros smoke the DT770 Pro 80 in every way other than isolation (obviously). 

If you're not using a mic with them, the Mixamp will be fine with the DT990 Pros.

And yes, the DT770 Pro 80s tend to sound muffled at times because of the bass. The DT990s don't. Unless you need the fantastic noise isolation of the DT770s... there's no reason not to go with the 990 Pros.


----------



## Nujabes

Thanks for the quick reply!
   
  Let's say I need the ability to use voice chat with my fun headphone; does that make the DT770 Pro 80 the next best choice after forgoing the DT990 Pro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd probably wait it out for the D2000 to go into the 200 range. The DT770 Pro is outclassed in its price range.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd probably wait it out for the D2000 to go into the 200 range. The DT770 Pro is outclassed in its price range.


 
   
  The D2000, D5000, and D7000 are all discontinued so anyone's who's interested should probably snap them up now.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Why are they discontinued?


----------



## JdmKicks94

Hi guys, has anyone used the hm5's / fa-003's for gaming? And if you did how do you like them? I was thinking about purchasing a modmic & mixamp for gaming in addition to using them for music. Thanks


----------



## Nujabes

Thanks for the recommendation, I guess I'll stop looking at the DT 770 Pro 80.
   
  Would double-amping the DT 990 Pro with the Astro Mixamp and another cheap amp like the FiiO E5/E6 allow me to use voice chat with it on the Astro Mixamp (if it would even work)? Or would buying the D2000 still be the better option?
   
  I found the DT 990 Pro for about $150 so I could buy a $30 amp and still be within my price range. I'm not really knowledgeable about amping headphones so I'm not sure if it would work or not. From what I understand, you can use an E9 and do it but that's more expensive.
   
  I'm just pushing this voice chat thing out of love for options and convenience. I'd be fine just using the DT 990 Pro for fun and using my AD700 + mic for voice chat if I had to. Thank you for answering my questions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't get the Fiio E5/E6. They do not push enough power to boost decibel levels enough for voice chat mixing. The cheapest I recommend is the E11.

The D2000 would be convenient because they are very easy to power (don't need an extra amp).

I however have not heard them, but they are the next step up from the CAL/D1001 which I liked quite a bit, and the D2000 is the little brother of the D7000 which you all know I love. I would expect it to perform well, and I'd have bought them if I didn't go straight to the D7000. I may have to ask for someone to loan me theirs at some point, lol.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Why are they discontinued?


 
   
  New model... sorta.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





phos said:


> New model... sorta.


 
   

 Those look suspiciously ugly...


----------



## mindbomb

I finally did manage to compare my shure se215 to my audio technica ad700 and how each handled dolby headphone.

I had something at a fixed distance that made a distinctive sound. I rotated around and observed the different apparent positions of the object. The game was set to 5.1, windows was set to 5.1, and my asus xonar dg was set to dolby headphone. The amp on the xonar was set for low impedance headphones.

I thought they both could position extremely well. I had a pretty good handle on where it was in either case. I suppose it was mostly determined by the dolby headphone algorithm, rather than any intrinsic headphone properties at that point.

A more practical problem with IEMs that I had was that voice chat was very strange, in that when you talk with IEMs in, your voice sounds a lot different than it normally does. Idk if that is something you get used to.

For that simple reason, I feel that open back with big angled drivers are the way to go.

However, if you have a pair of good IEMs, and you can get used to the voice chat issue, I don't think you have to spend money on new headphones for gaming either.


----------



## Phos

If you're using IEMs you might as well add the mic input to the output mix so you can hear yourself.


----------



## Hoax

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Astro A40
> 
> To be honest, I can't remember them all too well, though I remember them sounded pretty hollow, and I couldn't really pinpoint sounds behind me. I'd like to give them another chance though.


 
   
  Just saw a video review on youtube from akaTRENT .. He said the PC360 and the new A40's sound about up to par, The a40's have more bass and the PC360 a wider sound stage.
   
  I got the a40's and was looking at the PC360's but I do like bass too so I guess I'll scrap the PC360's off my list .. Im checking out the other headphones in your review now (thanks alot for all the info) .. Which headphone would be the best choice for a great surround sound while keeping heavy impact basses from explosions or epic movie theatre basses?
   
  Btw. I also got the Tritton AX pro's and I agree with you the sound kinda sucks for what you pay for it. There's static noise coming from the drivers non stop (I read its the magnetics in the drivers causing this because they're placed too close to eachother). At first I liked them but as soon as I started playing I noticed the bass sounds very muddy ..  Every grenade going off sounds like WHOOOOOOOOOOMMMM rather than BOOM! .. Gets exhausted to listen to after a short while especially when you're into a small map where ppl throw away their nades as soon as they spawn


----------



## caracara08

anyone using the T1 for gaming?  i get the feeling that my W4s are more precise for FPS than my T1.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I used the w4's for fps and they are very accurate.  Only problem is my right ear canal is bigger than my left so the sound some times sounded good in my left ear and than right sounded a bit far or less defined.  Some one on the head-fi uses the T1's and said he liked them.  
  Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> anyone using the T1 for gaming?  i get the feeling that my W4s are more precise for FPS than my T1.


----------



## caracara08

hawaiiancerveza said:


> I used the w4's for fps and they are very accurate.  Only problem is my right ear canal is bigger than my left so the sound some times sounded good in my left ear and than right sounded a bit far or less defined.  Some one on the head-fi uses the T1's and said he liked them.




What do you use for a mic? I have the zalman clip but haven't tried it yet. Thinking maybe a desktop mic would be better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anything is better than the Zalman...just saying.


----------



## chicolom

I have a new pair of headphones coming tomorrow:
   
  The new Audio Technica Air T-Line ATH-TAD500


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I have a new pair of headphones coming tomorrow:
> The new Audio Technica Air T-Line ATH-TAD500


 
   
  Please post a detailed review.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Please post a detailed review.


 
   

 That's the plan.  I searched and found zero reviews of them on Head-fi.  It seems no one owns them yet.  Probably because you have to import them from Japan


----------



## caracara08

mad lust envy said:


> Anything is better than the Zalman...just saying.




Like what? Two years ago ppl were saying it's awesome haha. So I ordered it based on reviews. Just haven't been able to try it out in the last two years.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I didn't have a mic at the time but I do have the Zalman clip and it works fine but when I do private chat with friends I can hear the lobby chat and it kind of bugs me.  I want to try this mic.
   
  http://www.modmic.com/design-and-specs/
  Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> What do you use for a mic? I have the zalman clip but haven't tried it yet. Thinking maybe a desktop mic would be better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I have a new pair of headphones coming tomorrow:
> 
> The new Audio Technica Air T-Line ATH-TAD500




I saw these awhile back and was interested, as they don't have those blasted wings. I was waiting for a tad700 though. 

I doubt they'll be better than the Quincys though =/ . Still, interested in your thoughts. 

Personally, I'm considering getting the ES7 again, and ordering some velours on Ebay that fit them.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, I'm surprised you never tried this...


  
source


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just don't understand how they got those to fit without stretching the Beyer pads considerably. The Denons are huge compared to the Beyers. Also, considering just how terrible the 990 pads (same as 880) sounded on the DT770/600 (lost all bass and treble became unbearable), I highly doubt this anything good to the Denons sound. I'm convinced that topic was all placebo. I'm a bit more subjective, and highly suspicious about the whole thing.

If there was any pads that would retain Denon's sound the most, it'd be velour pads designed for closed cans like the DT770 pads, which aren't exactly as comfortable as the 880/990 pads.

Maybe some Ultrasone Pro 900 pads? Hmm...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I saw these awhile back and was interested, as they don't have those blasted wings. I was waiting for a tad700 though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I wasn't going to get them, but then I found them at a nice price. 
   
  From what I've read, the TAD500 has a "new" driver different from AD700.  That's what the "T" signifies.  The new drivers are still 53mm and angled.  It's not meant as a successor or replacement to AD700, but as an alternate model in the Air series (which makes sense given it's model number).  Not sure whats next for the ADxxx series.  Probably AD700x, limited edition or whatever.
   
  I don't expect them to compete with the Q701s, but I was curious about their sound.  There's nothing about how they sound on Head-fi.
   
  I'm expecting a bit warmer sound from AD700 with a slightly smaller soundstage, and a less annoying fit.  But we'll see.


----------



## Phos

Beyer pads on Denon phones sounds like a horrible idea, the drivers are too close to begin with, and moving them even closer?  
   
  If you wanna try velours on a Denon, maybe take a look at ATH-AD2000 pads?  I dunno if they're more normal than the AD700 pads or not but if they are they might be worth a try. Might be worth asking around.  I dunno what that would do to the sound, the denons seem very sensitive to changes in front of the driver.  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I saw these awhile back and was interested, as they don't have those blasted wings. I was waiting for a tad700 though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The wings aren't the problem, the problem with the ergonomics on the AD700 are the stupid pads and that they're missing a a second gimbal.  As I've said, the closed A700 and A900 have both the gimbal and the pads, and are thus much more comfortable but they aren't good for games.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


>




Neither does the AD700...

Angled pads, IIRC


----------



## pdiddypdler

Has anyone used sony mdr-v6's for gaming?
I'm thinking it might be a decent cheap, closed can for lans...

Cheers,


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Neither does the AD700...
> Angled pads, IIRC


 
   

 No, AD700 does have them. AD900 doesn't.
   
  x70x doesn't have them, but has angled pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then no wonder the AD700s have so much soundstage... angled drivers AND angled pads. XD


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Then no wonder the AD700s have so much soundstage... angled drivers AND angled pads. XD


 
   
  My latest T50RP mod is going in that direction.  I'm going to have to compare them to well know soundstage monsters an the next meet I'm at.  Ray Samuels is bringing his HD800....


----------



## Heretic817

I currently have the Astro Mixamp for my PS3 probably going to stick with that for Dolby Headphone.
   
  Also, have Creative X-fi extreme Gamer sound card for PC that does the whole CMSS er whatever it's called.
   
  I tried the ATH-AD900's and they sounded good maybe a bit harsh in the highs and hella uncomfortable. Now I am going to try out the
  Senn HD 558's and hope that goes a little better.
   
  My question is this....I really want the simulated surround sound technology I think it adds a lot to my games. However, it seems like a lot of people are of the opinion that both the Mixamp and most internal sound cards make for a poor source. Is there anything out there that can give you the perfect combination? Excellent Source, Amp for higher Impedance headphones, voice mix, EQ, Dolby headphone.
   
  Can you get all that in a single package?
   
  (I know that the AD900's and HD 558's are not demanding in the amp department that is why they made my short list)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I currently have the Astro Mixamp for my PS3 probably going to stick with that for Dolby Headphone.
> Also, have Creative X-fi extreme Gamer sound card for PC that does the whole CMSS er whatever it's called.
> I tried the ATH-AD900's and they sounded good maybe a bit harsh in the highs and hella uncomfortable. Now I am going to try out the
> Senn HD 558's and hope that goes a little better.
> ...


 
  There are only three surround sound technologies that I'm personally aware of, Dolby Virtual Headphones, Creative Labs and Yamaha's Silent Cinema.
  I would "guess" PS3 might have some support for Dolby Virtual Headphone, if the PS3 even has support for any particular surround sound tech.
  It might be that the Mix-Amp and sound cards that support Dolby Virtual Headphone might be that best you can do for PS3.
  If there is a Creative Labs sound device that has a digital input and a headphone output, you can try to see if that makes a difference.
  The Audio Technica ATH-AD900 (40-Ohm) and the Senn HD558 (50-Ohm) are easy headphones to drive.
  Some amps for "high impedance headphones" like 150 to 600-Ohm range are not always the best choice for low impedance (25 to 65-Ohm) headphones.
  The Astro Mix-amp might be as good as it gets with surround sound for the PS3.
  If someone knows something better hopefully they will inform us.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Harman Kardon sells receivers that have built in Dolby Headphone, but they can be a bit pricey. I also think it's only on OLDER models, as new ones seem to have something else...

This one goes for around $300 used and has DH.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-HK-3490-Receiver/dp/B00198F89A/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1335908727&sr=8-5

Should be a step up fidelity-wise over the Mixamp or any small virtual surround device.

Obviously, this is part of a full system, and a bit overkill if you're just using it for your headphones.

That being said, I don't know how high the output impedance of the headphone jack is, so it might distort lower ohm headphones.

I'll stick to hooking up a real headphone amp to my Mixamp and taking the slight Mixamp noise.


----------



## Heretic817

Well OK. In that case I am thinking....I go ahead and get the HD 558 for my current setup.
   
  Let's say down the road I get the itch and decide that I want to go for a more high end headphone with a higher Impedance to pair with the Mixamp.
   
  To be clear I do not want a setup that busts through the $2000 mark as if money is no object so please do not recommend such a thing.
   
  What say you Hi-Fi peoples to the idea of pairing the FiiO E17 with the Mixamp?
   
  Does that get me there?
   
  1. Enough Amp to drive say 300 ohm or 600 ohm can with voice chat.
   
  2. Ability to EQ
   
  3. (Optical to Analog DAC) Dolby Headphone
   
  4. Respectable sound quality at the price point while achieving all of the above.
   
  Has anyone on the forum done this or just have an opinion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You do realize that as long as you're not adding voice chat, the Mixamp can at least drive 600ohm headphones loudly, right?

Instead of the E17, I'd get the E9 or something similar, as it definitely has enough juice. Objective O2 as the slightly pricier alternative that is technically better.

The E17 would be fine for 250ohm headphones though.


----------



## Heretic817

Envy.
   
  I know that chaining amps is generally undesirable in terms of maintaining signal fidelity. It is true everywhere in electronics. In the end it is a question of total signal to noise ratio. So, if someone says they have done it and signal degradation is minimal I will just take your word for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well then, adding an amp to my Mixamp, I don't get ANY extra noise from the amps I've used. I just get the noise from the Mixamp itself. With low sensitivity headphones like the Q701, the noise is almost inaudible either way, so it's an absolute non-issue.


----------



## Noisecr

Hello everyone, new comer here in head-fi, seeking for some advise, I've read quite a lot, but never posted.  It has taken me a while, but I've read most of this great thread.
   
  MLE, thanks for the great write up, it has helped me a lot!
   
  I'm searching for gaming headphones to use with my PS3 and PC, I play mostly FPS. I'm not really worried about the PC part for now, probably later on will get a sound card for Dolby HP.
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *moppelh* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I want a versatile headphone, one that's great for gaming and good for other uses.  Im not a bass guy, but i want enough bass for the music and movies to have power.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm pretty much on the same boat as you moppelh. I live in Costa Rica, so I'm shipping everything here. Here's what I've decided:
   
  Definitely getting a mixamp, although not sure which one to get, I think I'm going for the Pro, I kind of like that it has more inputs (TOSlink, coax, L/R) than just optical as the wireless.
   
  Now, on the headphones...
   
  It's pretty much a tie between Q701s and HD598s.  Although it's stretching my budget: AKG Q701 are $250 right now on amazon.  To use them I'd need an amp, like the E9, which is $120.  So that's around $370.
  And Sennheiser HD598, which are $240 right now.
   
  Do you think the extra money to get the Q701s and the amp over just the 598s would be worth it?
   
  Thanks a lot for you help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you're not using a mic, then you DON'T need an extra amp after the Mixamp. For some people, they don't need an extra amp even with a mic, though I'm still not sure about that.

And dear god, yes. The Q701 is great for many uses, whereas the HD598 isn't exactly full of wow factor other than for straight FPS gaming. I'd prefer the better rounded headphone.

I love the Q701. I really liked the HD598 just for FPS. Money is better spent on the Q701 for me.


----------



## maverickronin

Anyone here ever try the Audio Technica ATHDWL5000?
   

   


   
  Wireless headphones with Dolby and DTS decoding plus Dolby Headphone.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I currently have the Astro Mixamp for my PS3 probably going to stick with that for Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Also, have Creative X-fi extreme Gamer sound card for PC that does the whole CMSS er whatever it's called.
> 
> ...


 
   
  On the PC, if you can find one of those Flexijack S/PDIF adapters for your X-Fi XtremeGamer, then you could output a CMSS-3D Headphone-processed stereo PCM stream to the DAC of your choice. Just buying an X-Fi Titanium for around $40 or so (whenever Newegg has refurbs that cheap) to get the S/PDIF-out would be much easier, though.
   
  On the PS3, it's a great deal more difficult because most DACs don't have the Dolby Headphone DSP features of the Astro Mixamp and similar devices, and this isn't even getting started on the voice mixing. The ideal DAC/DSP is probably the Smyth Realiser A8...sorry about your wallet.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Well OK. In that case I am thinking....I go ahead and get the HD 558 for my current setup.
> Let's say down the road I get the itch and decide that I want to go for a more high end headphone with a higher Impedance to pair with the Mixamp.
> To be clear I do not want a setup that busts through the $2000 mark as if money is no object so please do not recommend such a thing.
> What say you Hi-Fi peoples to the idea of pairing the FiiO E17 with the Mix-amp?
> ...


 
  If you connected the Mix-amp with the Fiio E17 you would only be using the amp part of the E17, but not the DAC.


----------



## Heretic817

Yes and noted.
  I was thinking.... That the DAC section is provided by the mixamp (optical to Dolby Headphone stereo output) as well as the voice chat function but the E17 would add the ability to EQ as well as any additional power that could be needed for amplification.
   
  However, Envy said: "the Mixamp can at least drive 600ohm headphones loudly"
   
  This is not what I thought to be true based on some claims that the output of the Mixamp in some cases takes a dive when trying to use power hungry cans with voice chat. I did not however see any specs. on the mixamp. So I had only surmised from anecdotal claims that the Mixamp might not provide enough power in some cases.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well then, adding an amp to my Mixamp, I don't get ANY extra noise from the amps I've used. I just get the noise from the Mixamp itself. With low sensitivity headphones like the Q701, the noise is almost inaudible either way, so it's an absolute non-issue.


 
   


 Like I said if you have done it and it does not create a noticeable problem than I am sure it is fine.
   
  BUT. When we talk about electronic amplifiers we talk about LOW noise amps and not NO noise amps. A good engineer who does not go too cheap in the design can make a very low noise amp but not a no noise amp. All amps will add "noise" (not necessarily in the audio band mind you) I am talking strictly about this as a principle of electronic circuit design when I talk about signal fidelity and amplification. The trouble with chaining amps is that the "noise" added by the first stage of amplification, however low in amplitude, is then fed to the second amp which adds it's own very low level noise BUT also amplifies the noise added to the signal from the first stage of amplification.
   
  It is all relative though. In the end it is a question of signal/noise ratio. If the total amount of added noise even after the second amp is at it's worst (signal/noise = 1000/1) then you won't even notice it but go cheap on the design of an amp (not a lot of audiophile grade stuff I am sure) and you can corrupt the hell out of a signal in a hurry.
   
  just saying. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Sorry. Not trying to be all anal. It's just that....and I am first to admit.....not an audiophile....I'm not an audio engineer....I bow to all the experience of you good people...but I do work in Electronics Engineering so, for instance, when (somewhere else) a user defined Impedance using the formula for ohms law I was twisting in my seat. It's a character flaw; forgive me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for the Mixamp driving 600ohm cans loudly, I specifically mentioned that it only does so when no voice chat is mixed in.

Maverick, What are those? Those Technicas look awesome, however, no matter what anyone says, I don't trust wing designs AT ALL.

I do wanna try that amp, though I guess it only works for those cans? It looks like it has an RCA pre-out. I wonder if it retains Dolby Headphone through it, so we could feed it to a dedicated headphone amp. Not that it matters. Seems very expensive and rare.


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Maverick, What are those? Those Technicas look awesome, however, no matter what anyone says, I don't trust wing designs AT ALL.
> I do wanna try that amp, though I guess it only works for those cans? It looks like it has an RCA pre-out. I wonder if it retains Dolby Headphone through it, so we could feed it to a dedicated headphone amp. Not that it matters. Seems very expensive and rare.


 
   
  It's a Japan only (though you can import it from lots of places) wireless headphone system.  Kinda expensive though.
   
  The headphones are wireless so the amp is in the headphones and runs on batteries.  The box just does decoding, processing, and transmitting.  I doubt the preouts have the DH processing but I don't know for sure.  That's pretty much all I know about it though.  I don't even know what the headphones were before they chopped off the cord and added a receiver and amp. AD700?  AD900?  AD1000?  Something completely different?
   
  If it was cheaper I'd probably just grab it and totally gut the headphones, make the receiver into a standalone box, and add a cable to the headphones so they could be used on their own and sell them.
   
  I'm having a hard time imagining an open AT with bass so I don't think it would be much good for movies or non-competitive immersion in games (what I'd want to use it for) but it's an open AT so it probably rocks with FPS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They look like AD900s with the inner cover removed. AD700s look like that as well once the inner cover is removed.

Hmm, thanks for posting that one. I never knew such a thing existed.


----------



## maverickronin

I think it's mostly an AD900/AD1000 frame but there's probably no way to tell what drivers it has without cracking it open.
   
  I just took notice of it when I came across a picture and saw the DH logo on the base station.  I'd seen it before but just ignored because I have no interest in wireless headphones.
   
  I figured I'd post it in here because other people do and I figured that some people might be interested in it for FPS console gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> Anyone here ever try the Audio Technica ATHDWL5000?
> 
> Wireless headphones with Dolby and DTS decoding plus Dolby Headphone.


 
   
  I saw those a little while ago.  The transmitter looks interesting with all the different  inputs.  Too bad it doesn't have a headphone out jack.


----------



## rabinzero

GIVING YOU THREAD USERS first dibs...
   
  As most of you know, I bought the AKG Q701's and love em.  I use them for everything now so my Denon AH-D1100's have been sitting in the box.  Purchased the Denon's on 09/27/11 so they aren't even a year old.  Locally I'm asking $150 for them, HOWEVER, if anyone on here is interested, shoot me an offer and if it's within my acceptance range, they are yours.  I'll even pay shipping if the offer isn't too low.
   
  Will come with everything included in the box and in the original box as well


----------



## matryx

I have the Tritton AX720 right now and I use it for my PS3 and computer. Just wondering if I a DAC will benefit me or is the AX720 decoder box a dac also? 
   
  I want to get the ZO2 or the E11 for my Denon D2000 but don't know if I should pick up a DAC also.


----------



## Noisecr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, if you're not using a mic, then you DON'T need an extra amp after the Mixamp. For some people, they don't need an extra amp even with a mic, though I'm still not sure about that.
> And dear god, yes. The Q701 is great for many uses, whereas the HD598 isn't exactly full of wow factor other than for straight FPS gaming. I'd prefer the better rounded headphone.
> I love the Q701. I really liked the HD598 just for FPS. Money is better spent on the Q701 for me.


 
  Oops, forgot to tell you.  Yes, I'm planning on using a mic for voice chat, very certain I'll get the modmic.  Just to let you know where I come from regarding headphones (don't laugh 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) I used a Genius HS-04U Dolby HD headset on my PC and I've never used headphones (or headsets) with my PS3, just the home theater.  So, as you can see, I know pretty much anything I get will be a huge improvement and blow me away.
   
  I thought about the PC360s at the beginning, more for convenience (less cables and easier to drive), but then kept reading more and changed my mind to those 2 options.
   
  I think I saw somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe another, not sure), that the E11 would be enough for the Q701s.  Should I try with just the mixamp (as you say some people don't use an extra amp) or just buy an E11 or E9 from the beginning and make sure it has enough power?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Noisecr, I'd get an E11 or E9.




matryx said:


> I have the Tritton AX720 right now and I use it for my PS3 and computer. Just wondering if I a DAC will benefit me or is the AX720 decoder box a dac also?
> 
> I want to get the ZO2 or the E11 for my Denon D2000 but don't know if I should pick up a DAC also.




The AX720/Mixamp/DSS/Etc are a DACs as they are taking a digital signal (from the optical cable) and then converting it to analog for your headphones.

Basically, anything with a digital input (HDMI, optical or digital coaxial) and a headphone jack/RCA output is a dac.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





noisecr said:


> I think I saw somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe another, not sure), that the E11 would be enough for the Q701s.  *Should I try with just the mixamp (as you say some people don't use an extra amp) *or just buy an E11 or E9 from the beginning and make sure it has enough power?


 
   
  I would try it stand-alone first.  If your going to be using them for music too, I would go ahead and get an amp/dac or a good soundcard though.


----------



## caracara08

deciding whether to go q701 + modmic or pc360.. i cant get myself to put the modmic on my t1.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> deciding whether to go q701 + modmic or pc360.. i cant get myself to put the modmic on my t1.


 
   
  I would just rock the T1 + modmic.  I'm sure if the modmic left anything behind a little isopropyl alcohol could take care of it.


----------



## caracara08

thought about it. but the mesh-like material over the semi open cups... look kinda sensitive. lol


----------



## Eric_C

I'll help you fix the modmic on the T1. Just send it over.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> thought about it. but the mesh-like material over the semi open cups... look kinda sensitive. lol


 
   
  You could do it like this > http://www.head-fi.org/t/607014/modmic-on-my-dt880


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> I'll help you fix the modmic on the T1. Just send it over.


----------



## pdiddypdler

I love that face! hahahaha


----------



## AxelDaemon

For most headphones (but to put up an example, say the Q701) what happens when you cover up those tiny holes?  The sound becomes a tiny bit muffled?  I was wondering what would happen when the LVA 7330 covers a portion of those holes, when I tape it on the Q701.  Probably too insignificant to matter or notice huh?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axeldaemon said:


> For most headphones (but to put up an example, say the Q701) what happens when you cover up those holes?
> 
> *Probably too insignificant to matter or notice huh?*


 
   

 This.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seconded. You won't hear the difference whatsoever.


----------



## Heretic817

Anyone have any input?
   
  Tried the ATH-AD900. Thought clarity, separation sound stage was great, but sometimes highs were piercing, bass lacking any real depth but punchy yes. Uncomfortable as hell. took em' back
   
  Then tried the HD 558. Less clarity but also less harsh highs smaller sound stage, bass is an improvement in depth. Overall I like the sound better than the AT's and they are more comfortable though the clamping complaint for me is minor but it's there.  Just not feeling WOW about it like I did the clarity and sound stage of the AD900. It's a trade off I could live with but....
   
  I use the above terms loosely not having heard that many different phones.  These are the only phones over $100 I have ever heard and I feel like I still need to zero in on what I like. Looking for $250 or less cans that make good all rounder movie, music, games. mostly gaming for fun some competitive but competitive is in the back seat over fun. I say all rounder but they will be used every day for gaming and what I have found is that open backed with Dolby Headphone rocks my socks off and i am on the quest for gaming Nirvana.
   
  Got the AD900 from Amazon took em' back - bought HD558 from Best Buy taking them back - hahaha maybe they won't catch on if I keep changing stores.
   
  Thinking about Q 701's. Has anyone used these with only the Mixamp?? Impressions?? Anyone out there able to make a comparison to either the AD900 or HD 558 that can help me understand about what to expect from Q 701???


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Anyone have any input?
> 
> Tried the ATH-AD900. Thought clarity, separation sound stage was great, but sometimes highs were piercing, bass lacking any real depth but punchy yes. Uncomfortable as hell. took em' back
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've used Q701s with just the mixamp.  It's fine.  Once I tried my M-stage for fun and found out it improved the soundstage I hooked that up as well.
   
  Haven't heard the HD558s, but I've used the AD900s and PC360s.
   
  See my posts here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-4-12-2012-akg-q701-added/2460#post_7950074
  and here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/75#post_8001311


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've used Q701s with just the mixamp.  It's fine.  Once I tried my M-stage for fun and found out it improved the soundstage I hooked that up as well.
> 
> Haven't heard the HD558s, but I've used the AD900s and PC360s.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks


----------



## silikone

I'm having a hard time picking between the HD558 and AD700. Directional audio is something I strive for, but at the same time, I want the games I play to give me a "wow!" feeling. I don't have Dolby Headphone, but I do have an X-Fi card using its own proprietary HRTF processor called CMSS. Listening to music is not something I do occasionally. As a matter of fact, the music in the games is what I mainly listen to.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





silikone said:


> I'm having a hard time picking between the HD558 and AD700. Directional audio is something I strive for, but at the same time, I want the games I play to give me a "wow!" feeling. I don't have Dolby Headphone, but I do have an X-Fi card using its own proprietary HRTF processor called CMSS. Listening to music is not something I do occasionally. As a matter of fact, the music in the games is what I mainly listen to.


 
   
  If that "wow!" feeling requires some bass impact, then you won't like the AD700. On the other hand, it has plenty of "wow!" in the "holy crap, this is like having an aural wallhack!" sense when paired with CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  Can't comment on the HD558; it's a headphone I haven't tried.


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You could do it like this > http://www.head-fi.org/t/607014/modmic-on-my-dt880


 
  hey sorry i missed this post completely.  i was actually thinking the same thing last night debating whether i should order the pc360 or not.  now that i see its possible. that helps a lot! thank you.  
   
  i notice a lot of the pc gamers use internal sound cards.. i guess because of the added effects? wonder how much of an advantage it is over just an normal external dac like the Bifrost.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've used Q701s with just the mixamp.  It's fine.  Once I tried my M-stage for fun and found out it improved the soundstage I hooked that up as well.
> 
> Haven't heard the HD558s, but I've used the AD900s and PC360s.
> 
> ...


 
  WOW Chicolom! You have a lot of equipment listed there. Given all your experience, what would you say your go to cans and setup are for gaming???
   
  P.S. When you say Q701 with mixamp is "fine" do you mean that in a underwhelmed way or that you liked it pretty well??


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> WOW Chicolom! You have a lot of equipment listed there. Given all your experience, what would you say your go to cans and setup are for gaming???
> 
> P.S. When you say Q701 with mixamp is "fine" do you mean that in a underwhelmed way or that you liked it pretty well??


 
   
  Yes, I've tried a bunch  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My favorite is the Q701. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  They have a good balance between fun and competitive traits, with enough bass and punch to be fun and immersive while having a large soundstage with good positioning as well.
   
  My setup is: Xbox >  Mixamp > M-stage > Q701 + modmic.
   
  You pulled "underwhelmed" from the word _fine_? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  The mixamp is satisfactory with the Q701s.  I get enough volume from it.  It's obviously not a desktop amp, which is what the Q701s like best, but if you want Dolby Headphone on consoles there aren't a lot of options.


----------



## blinkstar

I bought the mixamp a long time ago after reading this thread and a few other positive posts and I have to say--I thought it sounded terrible.
   
  My general impression was that it added a thick layer of reverb/echo effect to everything. In Fallout 3, for instance, when I would rechamber a round in my rifle outside, it sounded like I was inside a small concrete box.
   
  I am in no way a fan of Creative, but when I compared DH to CMSS-3D, there was no comparison--DH heavily distorted the sound, while CMSS-3D (with EAX turned OFF) gave me a very believable sense of 360 degree immersion without the fake echo/cave effect. The only thing I did not like about it is that I felt like that it didn't have much LFE, but I didn't hear much low end from the mixamp either ...
   
  What's the deal? Do others just not notice the echo/reverb? Did I have a "bad" mixamp?
   
  I understand that there are different levels of DH, but from what I remember of the mixamp, you could not select different levels. Am I wrong?
   
  Someone help me out here. What am I missing?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





blinkstar said:


> I bought the mixamp a long time ago after reading this thread and a few other positive posts and I have to say--I thought it sounded terrible.
> 
> My general impression was that it added a thick layer of reverb/echo effect to everything. In Fallout 3, for instance, when I would rechamber a round in my rifle outside, it sounded like I was inside a small concrete box.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I notice the reverb, but I don't mind it and I think it adds to the ambience a bit.  It's slightly smooths out the sound, but it's not that bad or too thick IMO.  CMSS does sound drier but almost too dry IMO.  Sound effects sound weird in headphones when they're that dry and separated (same reason I dont' like stereo).  Its like looking at a photoshopped picture where everything has been cut out and pasted on a white background. 
   
  I hear a little more LFE from Dolby Headphone.
   
  The mixamp is set to DH2, which is the medium amount of reverb/size, and you can't change it.  DH1 is drier and sounds a bit more like CMSS, while DH3 sounds too echoey.


----------



## blinkstar

Thanks for confirming the reverb thing, chicolom!
   
  Still wondering why nobody else seems fit to mention this when posting their impressions of the mixamp. To me it is NOT subtle in any way shape or form. And while we all have different tastes, standing outside in a barren landscape should produce NO echo effects whatsoever. When it does, for me at least, all sense of immersion/believability go flying out the window ...
   
  Wish I could get the chance to try DH 1, because I think I would like that a lot better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well going from stereo to DH is a big difference and the reverb/echo is the first thing everyone will notice, but after you spend days with it, the effect gets overtaken by the sheer amount of awesomeness, so yeah, not an issue at all.

The benefits far outweigh the cons.

As for CMSS, I agree with Chicolom. I thought it sounded nearly the same as Stereo. Very dry, and two dimensional. At least you're enveloped in a full soundfield with DH.

Of course, thge reverb/echo is NOt good for music, but for gaming I don't see the problem.

And Fallout 3 is a terrible game to demo DH. Just sayin'...


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Yes, I've tried a bunch
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Most excellent....both you and MLE seem to hold the Q701's in high esteem. I think that will be my next go around then. Much thanks to all of you for your input. Without this great thread I would be lost in a sea of choices.   For now I will take back the HD 558 try PS3 > Mixamp > Q701 then modmic and later an amp. as my wallet lay dying bleeding like a stuck pig HAHA but hey..."Sorry about your wallet" is the motto
   
  and... well "it's fine" sounds rather underwhelmed when compared to most opinions on Head-Fi. It's not every day someone says "tried these and...it's fine". Sorry mate. I feel like I am floundering a bit and just trying to get a grip on all of this.


----------



## calpis

I haven't been able to keep up with this thread in a while but have any of you guys had a chance to compare the q701 with the pro2900 yet? I'm still split to whether buying the q701 would be an upgrade, sidegrade, or downgrade.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well going from stereo to DH is a big difference and the reverb/echo is the first thing everyone will notice, but after you spend days with it, the effect gets overtaken by the sheer amount of awesomeness, so yeah, not an issue at all.
> The benefits far outweigh the cons.
> As for CMSS, I agree with Chicolom. I thought it sounded nearly the same as Stereo. Very dry, and two dimensional. At least you're enveloped in a full soundfield with DH.
> Of course, thge reverb/echo is NOt good for music, but for gaming I don't see the problem.
> And Fallout 3 is a terrible game to demo DH. Just sayin'...


 
  CMSS doesn't add it's own reverb, Creative is expecting the game to have that.  TBH I think Dolby Headphone adds too much.  I also don't know how good Cryengine's audio is, it seems hard to tell how far away anything is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know it doesn't, that's why it sounds so two dimensional to me. CMSS is too much like stereo, may as well not even use it, IMHO.

I won't deny, Dolby Headphone takes getting used to (I hated it at first, but I realized it was the Astro A40s that didn't help matters). If yuo directly compare to the pure fidelity of stereo, you're going to be disappointed. DH changes sound as a whole, painting it in a whole new way. People need to understand that. A few days (with the proper headphone and SOURCE) and it will reward you.


----------



## blinkstar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well going from stereo to DH is a big difference and the reverb/echo is the first thing everyone will notice, but after you spend days with it, the effect gets overtaken by the sheer amount of awesomeness, so yeah, not an issue at all.
> The benefits far outweigh the cons.
> As for CMSS, I agree with Chicolom. I thought it sounded nearly the same as Stereo. Very dry, and two dimensional. At least you're enveloped in a full soundfield with DH.
> Of course, thge reverb/echo is NOt good for music, but for gaming I don't see the problem.
> And Fallout 3 is a terrible game to demo DH. Just sayin'...


 
   
  I'd respectfully have to disagree with you. If the sound designers for a particular game thought an environment should have echo, they would, as Phos suggested, add it themselves. If I pull a handgun out of a LEATHER holster it should NOT have an echo effect ... that is just ridiculous. So I would say it _is_ an issue.
   
  I have compared CMSS-3D, via my Auzentech Prelude soundcard, directly to the mixamp and there is no comparison. With CMSS-3D games sound the way their sound designers intended they sound, with the added benefit of positional audio.
   
  I also have a full 5.1 Energy speaker setup. CMSS-3D comes very, very close in simulating the experience of actually being surrounded by speakers. It does not sound two dimensional to me at all. I'm not sure what is meant by the term "dry" ... If the opposite of dry is tons of reverb slathered over everything, I think I definitely prefer "dry."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I respectfully disagree with you. CMSS 3D sounds like a treble oriented, dry, expanded stereo. It does nothing for me. For those that just want stereo with a tacked on simulated effect, CMSS is for you. Positional cues are nowhere near as good as Dolby headphone, considering it all sounds 2 dimensional.

I've owned the Beyer Headzone ($1099) with it's own virtual surround processing, and it was near identical to Dolby Headphone, echo/reverb included, albeit with a higher fidelity sound. To me, it's a necessary evil to achieve the full 'surround like' sound.

But I guess that's why so many different DSPs exist. We all hear differently.

We can go and forth forever, but truth is, there are two camps, one that prefers DH, and the other that prefers CMSS. I've seen this same debate long before I joined Head-fi.


----------



## NamelessPFG

CMSS-3D Headphone doesn't sound like one-dimensional stereo at all to me. Far from it, when you play a game that uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL so it has full 3D spatial information for a more binaural presentation while Dolby Headphone is unfortunately limited to virtual, two-dimensional 7.1. That's why I even bother to use it. Unreal Tournament, as an example of a multiplayer FPS with great positional audio simply because of the APIs it uses, sounds spatially congested in stereo and kind of flat with no height cues in DH's virtual 7.1.
   
  I guess that's different HRTFs at play here, but there's also the whole matter of sound signature colorations. Dolby Headphone emphasizes bass and reduces treble, while CMSS-3D is the exact opposite. We've noticed this in this thread before, and I think that also has a lot to do with the polarizing views in this debate.
   
Rapture3D probably creams them both in terms of positioning and sound quality coloration with no less than _six_ different HRTFs to choose from, but I'm not paying 30 GBP for something that only works in OpenAL games when the majority of mine are DirectSound3D-based.
   
  Whatever the case, you certainly can't please everyone, especially in a subjective field like audio. Good thing we all have options.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I guess that's different HRTFs at play here, but there's also the whole matter of sound signature colorations. Dolby Headphone emphasizes bass and reduces treble, while CMSS-3D is the exact opposite. We've noticed this in this thread before, and I think that also has a lot to do with the polarizing views in this debate.
> 
> Rapture3D probably creams them both in terms of positioning and sound quality coloration with no less than _six_ different HRTFs to choose from, but I'm not paying 30 GBP for something that only works in OpenAL games when the majority of mine are DirectSound3D-based.
> 
> Whatever the case, you certainly can't please everyone, especially in a subjective field like audio. Good thing we all have options.


 
   
  That's interesting about DH emphasizing bass, where CMSS emphasizing treble.
   
  So dolby headphone only has access to the 5.1 dolby digital information from games, but CMSS gets the information from somewhere else (directsound3D?)  And Rapture3D gets information from OpenAL, but I guess that's not common or standardized?
   
  Do console games have any standardized audio positioning information besides Dolby Digital, and DTS?  Is there more advanced audio positioning information just not being used?  Is that a licensing thing or just no ones bothered to implement a more advanced standard than the 5.1 dolby digital information on consoles?


----------



## Heretic817

I have found DH to be a mixed bag. For me, it depends on the game though.
  In Assassins Creed 2 I thought it was fantastic. However, in Red Dead Redemption it screwed with the galloping sound of horse riding so much it sounded like four horses trotting at the bottom of a tin bucket and I found myself setting the Mixamp to stereo. It's hard to explain but DH murdered horse riding to the point I could not ignore it.
  In a game like MW2 there was a certain hollowness added but it improved positioning over stereo so much I got used to it. It took a minute but I now prefer DH in that game by far.
   
  CMSS: I can't do direct comparison because I play some games on PS3 and others on my PC but I can say: Dead Space on PS3 with DH = scary awesome. Dead Space 2 on PC with CMSS = scary awesome but something is not quite right. It has me looking at ASUS cards at the moment so that I can get DH on my PC.
   
   The effect of either tech. may change the overall sound in a noticeable way but.... the added sense of position, smoothness of transition and depth of field is something I find hard to give up once you get used to it.


----------



## blinkstar

Not that this is going to resolve the debate or anything, but this is an interesting clip on youtube:
   
 CMSS 3D vs Dolby Headphone - Crysis 2    
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ApNLMmeAs
   
  Note that you have to disable any HRTFs you have running in order to actually hear the clip above accurately.
   
  I'd say they sound similar, although in this instance I actually think DH sounds better ... I don't hear the reverb in this clip as badly, so I'm guessing this is DH1, and _not _DH2.
   
  To further complicate things, Yamaha also has its own HRTF, which some people swear is the best, although I've never heard it ....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





blinkstar said:


> I'd say they sound similar, although in this instance I actually think DH sounds better ... I don't hear the reverb in this clip as badly, so I'm guessing this is DH1, and _not _DH2.
> 
> To further complicate things, Yamaha has its own HRTF, which some people swear is the best, although I've never heard it ....


 
   
  I think it is DH1, b/c the uploader said _"It's standard settings for Dolby Headphone, as far as I remember - 8 channels input, of course, Dolby Headphone set to the "reference room" aka DH1 mode"_.
   
  I wish the mixamp let you cycle through DH1/2/3.  DH3 sucks IMO, but DH1 and 2 are both worth having.


----------



## caracara08

this debate is boring. i have no idea whats going on.


----------



## 1rkrage

Best noise isolating headphones for $100 or less?
   
  I game with the air conditioner in the same room so it gets a bit noisy when it is on.
   
  $100 is not a hard cap (I can spend on A700s), but I would prefer it to be under $100, and still get the noise isolation I want.
   
   
  gonna be paired with a Xonar DX


----------



## Rebel975

I guess I'm in a very small third camp where you can enjoy both DH and CMSS-3D. DH on my console/Mixamp setup and CMSS-3D on my PC/Titanium HD setup.


----------



## He11fire217

Quote: 





pdiddypdler said:


> Has anyone used sony mdr-v6's for gaming?
> I'm thinking it might be a decent cheap, closed can for lans...
> Cheers,


 
   
  I have. They were actually one of the first sets I used and I wasn't able to find a gaming headset that sounded even close to as good as those Sonys for even 2-3 times the money. I think they'd satisfy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That's interesting about DH emphasizing bass, where CMSS emphasizing treble.
> 
> So dolby headphone only has access to the 5.1 dolby digital information from games, but CMSS gets the information from somewhere else (directsound3D?)  And Rapture3D gets information from OpenAL, but I guess that's not common or standardized?
> 
> Do console games have any standardized audio positioning information besides Dolby Digital, and DTS?  Is there more advanced audio positioning information just not being used?  Is that a licensing thing or just no ones bothered to implement a more advanced standard than the 5.1 dolby digital information on consoles?





   
  Consoles were pretty much stuck on stereo with the occasional matrixed Dolby Surround/Pro Logic two-channel surround for years until 6th-generation consoles started packing S/PDIF outputs and Dolby Digital, while PCs had a 3D audio revolution in the late 1990s sparked by Aureal and Creative. (To this day, you'll still have people saying that Aureal's A3D 2.0 with its wavetracing and whatnot sounds better than Creative's EAX 5.0.)
   
  To make this possible, Microsoft introduced the DirectSound3D API in DirectX, which basically tells the sound card driver where the in-game sounds are in 3D space, and lets the sound card decide where and how to play back those sounds. OpenAL, a later-introduced API, works similarly. The game engine does NOT pre-mix the sounds like XAudio2 + X3DAudio and FMOD Ex do, because that's not the game engine's job in the first place.
   
  Aureal took advantage of this with A3D, and their headphone mode on Vortex chipset-based cards wowed people with what must have actually been binaural audio, given how they mentioned that they could pinpoint sounds in Half-Life with nothing but headphones, even above and below! I have reason to believe that Creative uses as much acquired Aureal tech as Sensaura tech in the HRTF field to make CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  Rapture3D works similarly, but completely in software as opposed to a sound card DSP. After all, it has the same access to the 3D positional sound information OpenAL provides that CMSS-3D Headphone does. The problem is that OpenAL, while a good API, never had the prevalence of DirectSound3D due to how soon it got displaced by XAudio2 + X3DAudio and FMOD Ex, starting around 2007. (PC game audio has really taken a turn for the worse over these past 5 years.) It would be an easier sell if it had a DirectSound3D-to-OpenAL wrapper included, like Creative ALchemy, Asus DS3DGX/C-Media Xear3D, Realtek 3DSoundBack, or so forth, and as a bonus, you don't need a Creative card to get the most out of it.
   
  By contrast, consoles always had software-mixed audio (maybe unless you're counting the really old stuff that falls into "chiptune" category, or 5th/6th-gen consoles like the Saturn and Dreamcast with dedicated audio processors), and they're designed with home theater speaker systems in mind, not headphones. That's why I haven't seen a single console game really offer a binaural audio option for headphone users, instead having to rely on virtualized 5.1 from a real-time-encoded Dolby Digital or DTS stream...and that's if the game in question supports either of those. Whatever the case, they're clearly designed with a different mindset from the days when every gaming PC worth its price had a good sound card, no exceptions.
   

  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I guess I'm in a very small third camp where you can enjoy both DH and CMSS-3D. DH on my console/Mixamp setup and CMSS-3D on my PC/Titanium HD setup.


 
   
  I'm also part of this third camp, believe it or not. I don't hate Dolby Headphone or anything-it's great at what it does-but I do feel that PC games capable of providing true 3D positional audio and not some arbitrary 7.1 arrangement of speakers are something DH could take advantage of, but doesn't in its current implementation. Not that I expect Dolby Labs to bother when they're the ones pushing 5.1 and 7.1 so hard to begin with, and the days of true 3D sound in PC games are largely over.
   
  Still, I'm not giving up my JVC/Victor SU-DH1 given how useful it is for console gaming, even with Pro Logic II sources instead of Dolby Digital or DTS. (Has anyone here ever played Metroid Prime with DH on? It's surprisingly good for something without discrete surround channels.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp (wired) with the Wii was a great combo. Dolby Headphone processing Pro Logic II might sound more processed than it processing Dolby Digital, but I feel that at times, the surround effect is even better. 

That's one thing I miss from the wired Mixamp that the 5.8 doesn't have... RCA input for Pro Logic II. Not that it's worth it on anything but the Wii.


----------



## boomer12

I'm currently running with DT990s/32ohms with a Mixamp 5.8 for console gaming.  Would there be any benefit to adding an extra amp (E9 perhaps?) to the setup?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

While you have a 32ohm variant, I find that the Beyers are all relatively hard to drive despite their ohm version. The E9 technically doesn't pair up well with a low ohm headphone, but that's due to the high output impedance (10ohm).

It'd probably benefit you to use an E17/E11 instead of the E9, as those two have low output impedances. The E17 has the extra benefit of being able to be used as a music DAC/AMP for other uses, but mainly because of it's ability to tweak treble, which may be something you want for the DT990s.


----------



## caracara08

the modmic is back in stock, amazon prime shipping available.  for anyione interested.  im hoping theyll work well on the curved bottom of my t1


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> While you have a 32ohm variant, I find that the Beyers are all relatively hard to drive despite their ohm version. The E9 technically doesn't pair up well with a low ohm headphone, but that's due to the high output impedance (10ohm).
> It'd probably benefit you to use an E17/E11 instead of the E9, as those two have low output impedances. The E17 has the extra benefit of being able to be used as a music DAC/AMP for other uses, but mainly because of it's ability to tweak treble, which may be something you want for the DT990s.


 

 When you did your review of the Q701's I noticed they did not make it in to your short list for either Competitive or fun. I was surprised because it sounds like you really enjoyed them. Is this correct?
   
  Also, how do you think they stack up against the DT990's
   
  One last question. I find that there are many varieties of the DT 990 and I am confused. You have the Pros and the Premiums and Impedance values across the map and price varies wildly among models. So, is there a big difference in preform ace between say
  DT  990 32ohm vs. 250ohm? I am just generally confused by the DT 990 xxx model/price scheme.
   
  As stated before: I have tried the ATH-AD900 and the HD 558 amped only through the Mixamp (DH) on PS3 and with Creative X-fi (CMSS) plugged into headphone port on my Creative speakers on PC.
  Now I am looking at the Q 701's and the DT 990's for round three and possibly adding an amp down the road (E9 or E17 or whatever makes sense if needed)
   
  MLE or anyone else want to chime in?????


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

heretic817 said:


> When you did your review of the Q701's I noticed they did not make it in to your short list for either Competitive or fun. I was surprised because it sounds like you really enjoyed them. Is this correct?
> 
> Also, how do you think they stack up against the DT990's
> 
> ...




Lol, I forgot to add the Q701 to the short list, sorry. I'll do it later.

The differences aren't huge between ohm models. Just choose what best fits your situation and amping. I think the most versatile ohm version is the 250ohm. The 600ohm needs specific amps to work to their full potential. The 32ohm model is kind of unusual because it's marketed as not needing an amp and being sensitive, but they are about as hard to drive if not more so than the 250ohm, and the amps that work with them are specific and should be low output impedance amps. The 250ohm models need amping as well, but any decent amp from portable to fullsized would work with them, including the E9 or other high output impedance amps.

The Pro models will have notably more bass and less soundstage due to clamp. I found the bass to be a bit too much for my liking on the 990 pros. I much prefer the Premiums.

As for asking here on head-fi, everyone is gonna steer you towards the 600ohm models of Beyers, without any real proof or proper equipment. Technically the 600ohm would be best as it has the lowest noise floor, but 600ohm headphones need some powerful amps capable of getting that micro percentage of benefits over the 250ohm. I have friends at AVS who have tried all three ohm models of Beyers, and they say they are too close to one another to really say one is better than the other. They're more subjective over there than here, which seems to be all "OMGZ GET THE 600OHM, JUST GET IT, IT DA BETTERZ"

So IMHO, the 250ohm is the most logical choice.

BTW having owned the 990 Pros 250ohm and Premium 600 ohm, they sounded pretty much exactly the same, with the Pros having that added bass. So I wouldn't worry too much about which ohm version you get, other than which works best for your equipment.


----------



## Heretic817

LOL - "OMGZ GET THE 600OHM, JUST GET IT, IT DA BETTERZ"
   
  Good stuff. Thanks. Look forward to your updated list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To further iterate...

If you have a portable amp first and foremost, you'll get the most out of the 32/250ohm beyers, where the 600ohm will be underamped and won't do better than the other two.

If you have a desktop amp that isn't ultra powerful, the 250ohm will benefit the most. If the amp has a high output impedance, the 32ohm may suffer with distortions and change in balance. The E9 and possibly a few other high output impedance amps don't seem to discernibly alter the sound signature to low ohm headphones, but these seem to be rare. For the sake of making sure you don't alter the signature, I'd choose a low output impedance amp if you're getting low ohm headphones.

If you have a high powered amp, the 600ohm will outdo the other two.

So again, for the casual user with typical amps, the 250ohm makes the most sense. The difference may be slight between the 250/600ohm, but when there are huge voltage swings, the 600ohm may lose in fidelity if not using a powerful amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, I've spent all day just in front of the computer playing a game on mute and listening to music through both my D7K and Q701. I just have to say how pleasing the Q701 is. Just.... it's comfy, sounds spectacular and doesn't bore me. It's just such a sensational headphone all round. The D7000 of course is my go to headphone for that heart pumping listen, but the Q701 is just great with everything. Inoffensive yet engaging. Kind of like what I would have wanted from the PC360 (for music).


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To further iterate...
> If you have a portable amp first and foremost, you'll get the most out of the 32/250ohm beyers, where the 600ohm will be underamped and won't do better than the other two.
> If you have a desktop amp that isn't ultra powerful, the 250ohm will benefit the most. If the amp has a high output impedance, the 32ohm may suffer with distortions and change in balance. The E9 and possibly a few other high output impedance amps don't seem to discernibly alter the sound signature to low ohm headphones, but these seem to be rare. For the sake of making sure you don't alter the signature, I'd choose a low output impedance amp if you're getting low ohm headphones.
> If you have a high powered amp, the 600ohm will outdo the other two.
> So again, for the casual user with typical amps, the 250ohm makes the most sense. The difference may be slight between the 250/600ohm, but when there are huge voltage swings, the 600ohm may lose in fidelity if not using a powerful amp.


 
   


 So then would it follow that both the Premium DT 990 250 ohm and the Q701's would do relatively well paired with the Mixamp and an E17? It would seem to be a common opinion that either set of phones would benefit from additional amplification over the Mixamp alone. I keep toying with adding the E17 to my setup because for a relatively small cost I can get an additional amp and the ability to EQ.    
   
  Also, do you have any impressions of the Q701's used with the Mixamp alone? In other words, how much does the addition of another amp  buy you in terms of overall sound quality. (I think you use an E9, right?)
   
  Sorry to hit you up for advice so often but you currently possess that which I covet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno just how well the E17 performs, to be honest, so I can't say if it will add anything to the Mixamp in terms of driving the Beyers.

I think I mention this every week, but I do fine with my Mixamp alone. I basically use my E9 only when I use my mic with the Q701,and I don't see it as more than a volume boost. The E9 doesn't add or take anything away. I think people expect too much from amps. Out of the few amps I've tried, dynamics and refinement are the obvious improvements, but to an untrained ear, they may not even tell the difference. You shouldnt buy an amp because it adds or takes away. You should buy one to give the power a headphone needs to perform properly. Like my NFB5 and E9 are different, but not night and day. Difference lies in that the E9 is somewhat dry sounding, and the NFB5 sounds thicker in direct comparison. Pretty much like the K701 is to the Q701, but to a much lesser extent.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> In other words, how much does the addition of another amp  buy you in terms of overall sound quality.


 
   
  The reason for double amping the mixamp is to improve the volume, not the sound quality...
   
  And you may not even need the volume.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The reason for double amping the mixamp is to improve the volume, not the sound quality...
> 
> And you may not even need the volume.


 
   That makes the most sense to me. I was wondering if I added the modmic and used it in COD MW if the volume would fall off a cliff.
   
  MLE said:* "I basically use my E9 only when I use my mic with the Q701,and I don't see it as more than a volume boost*."
  .
  I know that you have personal experience with the set up too and you once said *"Once I tried my M-stage for fun and found out it improved the sound stage I hooked that up as well." *
   
  That being said. I see all kinds of conflicting information surrounding the Q701 or K70x. One person says it *may* not be loud enough with only the Mixamp. Another says it *will* be fine with Mixamp alone. I saw one person on here who said they *would* not sound right without an additional amp. However, most of such comments sound like conjecture rather than experience.
   
  Both yourself and MLE actually have a Mixamp and the Q701 and it sounds like you are both telling me it's fine, even with voice chat.
  Is that what you two are trying to beat into my thick skull???


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I saw one person on here who said they *would* not sound right without an additional amp. However, most of such comments sound like conjecture rather than experience.


 
   
  That _does _sound like conjecture.  It also sounds like they were talking about music, and/or generally adhering to the strict "x70x *Must* have an amp at all times" Head-fi policy. 
   
  When you register on head-fi's forums and accept the terms of agreement, it also says that you must agree that x70x needs an amp, always.  Don't you dare enjoy them out of anything else.  =\
   
   
  Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Both yourself and MLE actually have a Mixamp and the Q701 and it sounds like you are both telling me it's fine, even with voice chat.
> Is that what you two a trying to beat into my thick skull???


 
   
  Pretty much.


----------



## Heretic817

LOL OK OK. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Message received


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> heretic817 said:
> 
> 
> > Both yourself and MLE actually have a Mixamp and the Q701 and it sounds like you are both telling me it's fine, even with voice chat.
> ...


 
   
  I game with Q701 plus modmic and the Mixamp Pro has plenty volume when I set the mix level at 1 'o clock (towards the voice side).  It still leaves plenty volume for the game, to a point my volume dial is only at the most 70% or around the 2 'o clock mark.  And I consider this volume way too high for me sometimes when playing Gears of War 3 horde mode.  Sometimes the screams and explosions make me jump and I have to dial it down a bit.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> I game with Q701 plus modmic and the Mixamp Pro has plenty volume when I set the mix level at 1 'o clock (towards the voice side).  It still leaves plenty volume for the game, to a point my volume dial is only at the most 70% or around the 2 'o clock mark.  And I consider this volume way too high for me sometimes when playing Gears of War 3 horde mode.  Sometimes the screams and explosions make me jump and I have to dial it down a bit.


 
  So, I guess you are pretty satisfied with that setup.  Fun / Competitive / or both???


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> So, I guess you are pretty satisfied with that setup.  Fun / Competitive / or both???


 
   
  It does both great.  I tested at the beginning with a friend's AD700, but the 'metallic' sound was annoying me after a while playing competitively in Halo to a point it started to distract me. After reading MLE and chicolom countless posts (thank you both!), I decided to get the Q701, and I'm never going to look back or forward.  This is it for me, unless the Stax come down to the $600 price range 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I only considered for my gaming setup open for the large soundstage, therefore didn't bother with any other headphones that I have for listening at work.


----------



## Heretic817

Well, here we go. I returned my HD 558's and just ordered the Q701's


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That _does _sound like conjecture.  It also sounds like they were talking about music, and/or generally adhering to the strict "x70x *Must* have an amp at all times" Head-fi policy.
> 
> When you register on head-fi's forums and accept the terms of agreement, it also says that you must agree that x70x needs an amp, always.  Don't you dare enjoy them out of anything else.  =\
> 
> ...


 
  Chicolom.
  I see that you "had" both the DT880 and DT990 but "have" neither. How did those stack up for you for gaming fun/competitive???


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Chicolom.
> I see that you "had" both the DT880 and DT990 but "have" neither. How did those stack up for you for gaming fun/competitive???


 
   
   
  DT880s are fun, but not as good competitive as Q701.  DT880 has a great signature - pretty balanced with some slight sparkle and some fun bass, but the soundstage isn't as great for competitive as some other cans.  It's also smaller than 990 and Q701 soundstage. 
   
  The 990 signature was too hot and crisp for me, and the treble made the sound un-fun.  I compared the 990s and Q701s already > http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright, I'm trying to clean up the format on the first post, but this forum really likes screwing with it and adds unnecessary java... I'm not too well versed in such things, and it's being quite a pain in the ass. That's why the first post looks so messed up. I didn't add all those spaces between things. Sigh... in any case, I've separated the sections quite a bit better, so it SHOULD look a bit less cluttered now. Please lemme know what you guys think.

Since I felt a little productive, I have also added the DT990 Pro as well as the HE-4 to the list, so check it out.

edit: 5/9/2012:

Added the HE-4 and DT990 Pro
Somewhat fixed the format of this post
Adjusted the DT880's score
Moved my top choices to the top of the page before the individual scores
Added a bit of info after the top choices
Added an All-rounders top list

Before anyone asks about the DT880's competitive score going from an 8 to a 6.5, I had to directly compare the score to the HE-4 (again, this is a SPECIAL case... for everything else, scores should NOT be compared), as I felt they were very similar, though the HE-4 is slightly better for competitive use due to better positioning. That, and it just felt odd to give them an 8 for competitive when I've been quite vocal on their issues with rear sound placement.

Lol, I edited for about an hour, finally done. I had to re-edit over an over again as to not make some mistakes with the lists.


----------



## Noisecr

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> I game with Q701 plus modmic and the Mixamp Pro has plenty volume when I set the mix level at 1 'o clock (towards the voice side).  It still leaves plenty volume for the game, to a point my volume dial is only at the most 70% or around the 2 'o clock mark.  And I consider this volume way too high for me sometimes when playing Gears of War 3 horde mode.  Sometimes the screams and explosions make me jump and I have to dial it down a bit.


 
   


 Hey IronSnake,
   
  Could you please post a pic of your Q701 looks with the modmic? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm just wondering where did you attach the sticky magnet to and how does it look.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





noisecr said:


> Hey IronSnake,
> 
> Could you please post a pic of your Q701 looks with the modmic?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Here's what mine looks like.  I prefer having boom mics on the left. If you put it on the right there would be a lot more room since there's no cable.


----------



## caracara08

my modmic comes in today!


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Alright, I'm trying to clean up the format on the first post, but this forum really likes screwing with it and adds unnecessary java... I'm not too well versed in such things, and it's being quite a pain in the ass. That's why the first post looks so messed up. I didn't add all those spaces between things. Sigh... in any case, I've separated the sections quite a bit better, so it SHOULD look a bit less cluttered now. Please lemme know what you guys think.
> Since I felt a little productive, I have also added the DT990 Pro as well as the HE-4 to the list, so check it out.
> edit: 5/9/2012:
> Added the HE-4 and DT990 Pro
> ...


 
  Nice job MLE!!! A soon as I logged on I was like "wow that looks a lot cleaner". and thanks for the Q701 include as well.
  I just got my Q701's delivered to work so I have yet to try them. It sounds like my Astro Mixamp should do fine to drive them but now I am likely going to have to do something to use them with my PC. I take it I will need some amplification over my X-fi Extreme Gamer card which has no dedicated headphone amp.
   
  Well, I guess I will try them out on bothe PS3 and PC tonight and see how it goes. Thanks again MLE and Chicolom for all your help.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Alright, I'm trying to clean up the format on the first post, but this forum really likes screwing with it and adds unnecessary java... I'm not too well versed in such things, and it's being quite a pain in the ass. That's why the first post looks so messed up. I didn't add all those spaces between things. Sigh... in any case, I've separated the sections quite a bit better, so it SHOULD look a bit less cluttered now. Please lemme know what you guys think.


 
   
  That looks a lot better!  There were some *massive* spaces in there before.
   
  I think the HTML has some bugs in it from being edited so many times.  There are hidden spaces in the HTML you can't see.
   
  You should PM me the source code for the post.  Just click "edit post"  then click "source" on the top left, and copy and paste it all in a PM @ me.  I can clean up the HTML and get rid of the old invisible line breaks.


----------



## Indread

Can anyone take the time to list, to their knowledge, the receivers with built in Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D processing? I can't find all the models online, since the Harman Kardon's that did have Dolby Headphone are older models.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





caracara08 said:


> my modmic comes in today!


 
  Mine is sitting outside my door waiting for me to get home too. I'm excited!


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Nice job MLE!!! A soon as I logged on I was like "wow that looks a lot cleaner". and thanks for the Q701 include as well.
> I just got my Q701's delivered to work so I have yet to try them. It sounds like my Astro Mixamp should do fine to drive them but now I am likely going to have to do something to use them with my PC. I take it I will need some amplification over my X-fi Extreme Gamer card which has no dedicated headphone amp.
> 
> Well, I guess I will try them out on Booth the PS3 and PC tonight and see how it goes. Thanks again MLE and Chicolom for all your help.


 

 Um. OK. I just got home with my new AKG Q701's and I just want to throw this out there.
   
  Based on everything I read I expected to be able to use them with my Mixamp but to be a SOL with my MP3 player or my PC sound card. Now it may be true that these can benefit from an amp and I may do that down the line but...... I have literally listened to like 5 songs and here is what I think.
   
  1. They sound great, can't wait to really run in all situations. Games, Movies,  Music
   
  2. For all the hype about needing  $1000 amp or whatever. maybe I will never know what I am missing but....
   
  3. Even my Sony MP3 player drives them to an acceptable listening level though it could be louder it is by no means quiet.
   
  4. The Headphone jack on my PC speaker maxed out is a touch too much. I have it at maybe 85% - 90% and I do not want it any louder lest I damage my hearing.
   
  So, if you are out there and you are looking at these headphones thinking. "Sounds like something I would like to try these but sheesh $250 for the headphone and $260 for M-stage just to try them at a decent volume....good lord that's a lot of money" Let me just say: I have no idea how loud others need the sound and I am so far in no hurry to part with more money to find out what I am missing.
   
  Look at my posts and you will quickly see that I have no idea what I am doing in the realm of Hi-Fi yet, Maybe someone will tell you if you run these with a $300+ amp they will give you multiple eargasms and without one it's a snore, I dunno.
   
  As for me, listening to these on my computer, typing this and not even running them with my Mixamp yet..... I think if the positioning and sound stage with Dolby Headphone tickles my fancy for games then I have a new best friend.


----------



## He11fire217

heretic817 said:


> Um. OK. I just got home with my new AKG Q701's and I just want to throw this out there.
> 
> Based on everything I read I expected to be able to use them with my Mixamp but to be a SOL with my MP3 player or my PC sound card. Now it may be true that these can benefit from an amp and I may do that down the line but...... I have literally listened to like 5 songs and here is what I think.
> 
> ...




I just want to throw out there that "needing an amp" isn't just about the volume level. Sometimes even though the volume is loud enough there are more dynamics to be had by upgrading to an amp with more power (and therefore more headroom) and possibly a different output impedance. 

Driving any amp hard will cause it to clip or distort and some of the built-in amps in PMPs are underpowered to begin with. I'm not saying any of this applies to you, but there are more reasons to buy an amp than just more volume.


----------



## Katun

Love the new formatting with the line breaks and bolded headphones. MUCH easier to read now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, volume does not equate to being driven.

Like I mentioned on my HE-4 listing, the E9 drives the HE-4 to ear exploding levels, but it sounds very VERY weak, thin, and lifeless. It was only when I used the Lyr that the HE-4 came to life. I've never heard a headphone change THAT dramatically.

Chico, I'll see if I can pm you the script. I tried to remove most the spaces, but gave up halfway, lol. I'd fix it up some more, but laziness set in.


----------



## Heretic817

Regarding: Q701's
   
  Noted: I just currently can't see any reason that I NEED to throw another $100, $200, or $1000 at my setup. At the moment I think the volume and the sound are just great. If there are gains to be had I am hard pressed to imagine an improvement that would be worth the extra scratch. Of course a lot of people think I am out of my mind for paying $130 for the Mixamp and $250 for a headphone and I can see why. Now if I spent another $300 on an amp my friends, and my wife, would slap me and my momma.
   
  Don't get me wrong I am certainly not knocking anyone for searching for audio Nirvana. It's worth every penny if you think it is.
   
  I just wanted to say that I almost avoided getting this headphone all together because some people made it sound like they COULD NOT be driven to any kind of reasonable listening volume without an amp. You can find a trillion posts that could lead you to think that. This is certainly not what I think to be true. As stated, my crap little Sony MP3 player easily pushed these "loud enough" and sounded as well as I could expect given the source.
   
  So, IMO if the only thing holding a person back from giving these a try is the fear that they MUST also buy an amp out of the gate; I say bull.
  Give em' a shot and then if you want to, see what you can get out of an amp later if you do not already have one. If a well matched amp lets these truly spread their wings I would be really impressed as I already am without one.
   
  That is all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I for one don't find the Q701 to need much amping to sound great, outside of personal mixamp issues when using a mic (I like my voice/game knob near 2 o clock to get the desired volume level for voice chat, which kills game volume).

The K701 I owned before it, I preferred out of my old very weak Fiio E5 (which is like $20) than out of anything else at the time.

However, I'd still invest on an amp (at least the Fiio E11) to get more dynamics out of it. They may not require as much as head-fi states, but they do require amping to get the most out of them.

They certainly do improve a bit going from the E9 to the NFB5, and the NFB5 is giving them around 1 1/2 watts. So it's not farfetched to say that they do require a LOT of power to get them to tip top shape. 

So yes, enjoyable ampless, but will improve with some proper amping.

*edit: Cleaned up the format further and added underlines to the different headphones. The clean up SHOULD be complete. I removed pretty much all the unnecessary spacing (again not my own fault, lol). I have also adjusted the HD201's score from fives to sixes as I feel for the $20 you spend, they are decent performers, and sixes make more sense.*


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, I for one don't find the Q701 to need much amping to sound great, outside of personal mixamp issues when using a mic (I like my voice/game knob near 2 o clock to get the desired volume level for voice chat, which kills game volume).
> The K701 I owned before it, I preferred out of my old very weak Fiio E5 (which is like $20) than out of anything else at the time.
> However, I'd still invest on an amp (at least the Fiio E11) to get more dynamics out of it. They may not require as much as head-fi states, but they do require amping to get the most out of them.
> They certainly do improve a bit going from the E9 to the NFB5, and the NFB5 is giving them around 1 1/2 watts. So it's not farfetched to say that they do require a LOT of power to get them to tip top shape.
> ...


 

 And to be fair it is highly likely that I will end up getting an amp later. I think I may just have bitten by the bug.  I will just wait until I have some money burning a hole in my pocket which happens less often than I would like. For now, I am taking these babies for a test drive with my Mixamp,


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





noisecr said:


> Hey IronSnake,
> Could you please post a pic of your Q701 looks with the modmic?
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Here you go, Noisecr.  I say put it anywhere on the headphones where you feel it's best for you.  Just use a double sided tape and move it around before you commit.
   

   
  The best place that works for me for mics is to be under my chin, so I route it behind the cable.  I figured it shouldn't affect anything since there's a cable there blocking that section already.  Besides, the way I play fps games, I'm always moving, so if someone can sneak up beside me from behind my left buttcheek and whack me, I say kudos and turn my other buttcheek.
   
   
   


heretic817 said:


> Regarding: Q701's
> 
> Noted: I just currently can't see any reason that I NEED to throw another $100, $200, or $1000 at my setup. At the moment I think the volume and the sound are just great. If there are gains to be had I am hard pressed to imagine an improvement that would be worth the extra scratch. Of course a lot of people think I am out of my mind for paying $130 for the Mixamp and $250 for a headphone and I can see why. Now if I spent another $300 on an amp my friends, and my wife, would slap me and my momma.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Heretic817, save your money and go for a D7000. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  The Q701 is actually quite easy to drive, even though me as a head-fi newb, read everywhere like you that the AKGs are tough to drive.  However, I trusted all the good information from MLE and chicolom and just bought the rig AND I got a FiiO E11 just in case.  I was thinking to get a Matrix M-Stage instead and I'm glad I didn't.  The E11 wasn't needed at all for sound+voice since the mixamp can drive both plenty.  Actually, using the Q701 with my iPod touch 2nd gen + LOD + E11, I barely crank the volume up to at most 3 on the E11 on high gain.  Heck, that's the same volume I use with the Koss Pro DJ100, just goes to show how easy the Q701 is to drive.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I'll see if I can pm you the script. I tried to remove most the spaces, but gave up halfway, lol. I'd fix it up some more, but laziness set in.


 
   
   
  It looks like you got the spaces fixed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   

 Quote:


heretic817 said:


> Regarding: Q701's
> 
> I just wanted to say that I almost avoided getting this headphone all together because some people made it sound like they COULD NOT be driven to any kind of reasonable listening volume without an amp. You can find a trillion posts that could lead you to think that. This is certainly not what I think to be true. As stated, my crap little Sony MP3 player easily pushed these "loud enough" and sounded as well as I could expect given the source.


 
   
   
  I think part of why Head-fi started spreading around the "K70x NEEDZZ an Amp!!" is because some people just didn't like the sound of the K701/2, and when they threw enough money into an amp for AKGs they ended up "appreciating" them more.  Similar to the reason people say the need 500 hours burn in.  The sounds conveniently ends up changing to their liking (_ > they end up adjusting to it_, more likely).
   
   
  With that said, just because you are getting volume out of the Q701s doesn't meant they're being fully driven.  Out of all my headphones, the Q701s change/improve the most when paired with a desktop amp and source (I don't even bother hooking up my KSC35 or CALs to the M-stage as they don't benefit enough).
   
   
  I started with Q701 first, with no amps or DACs.  This is what I noticed as I got more gear:

 My soundcard at 75-80% drove them to listening levels.  I thought they sounded fine out of it.  
 Next I got the E10.  The sound became clearer/cleaner, and the soundstage was more open with better separation.  It was also much louder than my soundcard.  Definitely loud enough for the Q701.  I also had an E9 so I hooked that up to the E10.  I remember thinking, "That's more like it.  _This_ is how they are supposed to sound."  They sounded more clear and open then they did before, and now I could understand why people praised their soundstage.
 Then I got the M-stage and HRT Music Streamer II. Again, even bigger soundstage, more defined details, and better dynamics. 
   
  Moving backwards, starting from the M-stage, this is what I notice:

 Going from M-stage down to E10:  > The E10 sounds a bit compressed (dynamically) and muddy sounding.  The soundstage is smaller with more blurry separation.
 Moving down from either the M-stage or E10 back to the soundcard:  > The soundcard sounds a bit claustrophobic and "small.".  The soundstage depth is embarrassingly pathetic, as it basically doesn't have any depth when compared to the other gear.  It also sounds sort of and stuffy and thin.  (Keep in mind it's a laptop soundcard )
   
   
  So again, the Q701s aren't hard to drive volume wise, and their need for an amp _is _greatly exaggerated by Head-fi.  That doesn't mean they don't benefit from better amps though.  The most noticeable improvements IMO, are better soundstage, better clarity, and better dynamics.  You do get diminishing returns after a while, but under $300 there are some nice pieces of gear. 
   
  It may or may not be worth it to you to invest in it.  If you mainly use them for gaming and you are getting enough volume, I'm not sure I'd bother getting anything else.
   
  If you love the Q701s for music (like I do), then I think they deserve a little nicer setup, preferably with a desktop amp.  Also, don't bother buying another amp if your only going to pair it with a crappy source.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well put. Having now owned the NFB5, I wouldn't stomach the Q701 with the E9 as a main setup. I mean they sound great, but it sounds more natural with the NFB5.

Now with the D7000, I don't mind the E9 or the NFB5. The biggest difference there is just the amp's own sound signature, where the NFB5 sounds thicker and fills out the notes more, whereas the E9 is dry sounding but more energetic in comparison.


----------



## Heretic817

What would you recommend for under $150 as an amp for the Q701? At that price point could you endorse the E9?


----------



## IronSnake

chicolom, I was pointing out no need for amp for volume for the Q701 when the modmic is added into the mixamp. I tested the iPod with the E11 to see what's the deal with all the hard to drive statements about the AKG.  I use the Q701 strictly for gaming and nothing else.  It's just way too bright for me listening music to it.  For music, I consider every opinion regarding how something sounds to be a very personal and subjective opinion because everyone's tastes are different.  I stay away from commenting how something sounds since people here tend to treat that topic with religious zealot. I wonder when the shift happened to this hobby that stopped being about the music first, i.e. just chill out and enjoy your hard earned money listening to music to relax.
   
  As high quality source, I use the iPod classic and Sansa with my lossless collection.  But most often than not, I find myself using Spotify with the new extreme quality on my iPod touch to find new musicians around the world. It's the same in gaming with me, I will only keep a couple games as my high quality games to always go back to forget about the real world for a while.  The rest of the time, I rent and try out new stuff to find the next high quality game for me.


----------



## chicolom

> In the last 6 pages, I'm the first post in 5 of them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote:


heretic817 said:


> What would you recommend for under $150 as an amp for the Q701? At that price point could you endorse the E9?


 
   
  I would only get an amp for them if:

 Your going to be using them for music and not just gaming, and
 Your also plan on getting a decent source. (I'd rather listen to an E10 alone Vs.  an E9 alone used with my soundcard as a source)
   
  The E9 is alright.  It is a bit dry and thin (slightly recessed mids) sounding.  If you go for an E9, I would buy it used off the FS forum and save yourself $30.  You would then have enough money to get a DAC.  There are always E9's for sale on the forum. 
   
  Another option is this cheap bravo amp > http://www.bravoaudio.com/bravo2.html
   
   
  Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> chicolom, I was pointing out no need for amp for volume for the Q701 when the modmic is added into the mixamp.
> 
> I use the Q701 strictly for gaming and nothing else.  It's just way too bright for me listening music to it


 
   
  In that case, I wouldn't invent any more money into them.


----------



## Heretic817

Hey thanks a lot! I was gaming last night and found that the Mixamp at full tilt gave plenty of volume but the problem is:
   
  a. Would rather not have to run the amp all the way to the top like that.
   
  b. more importantly when I turned up the chat it did get quiet in a hurry. I have the older wired Mixamp if it makes a difference.
   
  I did not get to play the "can you hear me now game". While I still stand behind the statement that these do not NEED and amp to be enjoyed in most situations it is clear that they do WANT an amp. Besides, what the hell. I am not going back to my Razer headset for voice chat no way no sir.
   
  So, am this far down the path I guess no turning back.
   
  Mixamp - $130
  Q701 - $250
  Modmic - $40
  Amp - ??
   
  Time to sell the kids. 
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would only get an amp for them if:
> 
> Your going to be using them for music and not just gaming, and
> Your also plan on getting a decent source. (I'd rather listen to an E10 alone Vs.  an E9 alone used with my sound card as a source)
> ...


----------



## Heretic817

If throw a DAC into my gaming setup I lose Dolby headphone, right? I do not want that.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would only get an amp for them if:
> 
> Your going to be using them for music and not just gaming, and
> Your also plan on getting a decent source. (I'd rather listen to an E10 alone Vs.  an E9 alone used with my soundcard as a source)
> ...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





indread said:


> Can anyone take the time to list, to their knowledge, the receivers with built in Dolby Headphone or CMSS 3D processing? I can't find all the models online, since the Harman Kardon's that did have Dolby Headphone are older models.


 
  Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema, which is Yamaha's own version of surround sound for headphones.
  I'm sure zero receivers come with Creative's CMSS-3D.
  Very rare for any receiver to come with Dolby Virtual Headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> If throw a DAC into my gaming setup I lose Dolby headphone, right? I do not want that.


 
  To me an Xonar DX sound card with the Fiio E11 would make a nice combo,
  Dolby (7.1) Virtual Headphone, full Blu-ray audio support, decent DAC.
  and it only $13 for a battery charger and two extra batteries for the E11.
  The E11's low impedance should work well with AKG 700 series headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Heretic, only get a DAC if you plan on using them for music. The Mixamp is its own DAC, so for gaming or on any point you use the Mixamp, another DAC is useless. For $150, I'd probably look into the O2 amp. Epiphany Acoustics sells pre-built ones. The E9 is also an option, though for the Q701, I'd say a warmer amp would benefit them, and both of these are either neutral to slightly cold. I'm not a fan of tubes, so I personally won't recommend the Bravo.

And TOLD you about an amp when voice chat was added in. I swear, Chicolom must have some very sensitive ears, because the Q701 is just too low with the Mixamp drving chat at around 2 o clock.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Heretic, only get a DAC if you plan on using them for music. The Mixamp is its own DAC, so for gaming or on any point you use the Mixamp, another DAC is useless. For $150, I'd probably look into the O2 amp. Epiphany Acoustics sells pre-built ones. The E9 is also an option, though for the Q701, I'd say a warmer amp would benefit them, and both of these are either neutral to slightly cold. I'm not a fan of tubes, so I personally won't recommend the Bravo.
> And TOLD you about an amp when voice chat was added in. I swear, Chicolom must have some very sensitive ears, because the Q701 is just too low with the Mixamp drving chat at around 2 o clock.


 

 I know about the (Digital to Analog Converter) DAC thing. Which is why I said I would lose Dolby Headphone. You can't very well run an analog signal back through a DAC now can you?
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I do not at present intend to by a USB DAC or for that matter upgrade my soundcard in my PC. I just want to drive these phones closer to their potential for movies, MP3's and Gaming with chat. So it looks like I built myself into a corner here.
   
    AND yes you did try to tell me. Another user I think Ironsnake er something (forgive me, lazy) said Mixamp with chat was fine...boy is that wrong. You touch that dial and the volume falls off a cliff!!!
   
  No offense to the poster but it simply will not do for me


----------



## Valaire

While I love my HD598's, I am in the minority of people whom for some reason finds them uncomfortable.  I don't know what it is about my head or if it is just headphones in general, but they become uncomfortable after awhile, and I always feel much better when I take them off (pressure/headaches).  I'm not looking to necessarily replace them, as it might just be how I feel about all headphones, but I wanted to know if there was anyone else out there with my experience whom went on to try other headphones with different band styles and what they'd recommend for me?  I use my headphones 80% of the time for gaming.


----------



## Heretic817

See Below:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Isn't the Altoids box for the Cmoy amp. not the O2?

And I actually meant JDS Labs, not Epiphany Acoustics... they both sell pre-built ones but JDS Labs sells them in the states. Dunno why I got mixed up.

That amp should be all you need for practically any headphone. Just make sure the parts you get are for the O2. If I didn't have the E9 as my secondary, I would have bought an O2 myself. Though I'd prefer to wait for the ODA/ODAC combo coming out in the future, as it's more appropriately sized.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I swear, Chicolom must have some very sensitive ears, because the Q701 is just too low with the Mixamp drving chat at around 2 o clock.


 
   
  What, your mixamp doesn't have the high gain switch?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, if only. Though it'd probably add some pretty serious hiss.


----------



## IronSnake

For my ears, the Mixamp has plenty volume mixed in with the modmic. My wife's ears are even more sensitive to where she says I'm deaf having the volume that loud--and I'm only at 60% gaming online with voice. Everyone's hearing is different, so if the volume not enough for you, bi-amp it. Getting our setup sounding the way we want is what makes all this so fun.

Like I said, I bought the FiiO E11 thinking I would need it, but ended up not needing it. However, I do want to try down the road pairing the Q701 with the M-Stage since it increases its soundstage. I'm also a sucker for large soundstages.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Isn't the Altoids box for the Cmoy amp. not the O2?
> And I actually meant JDS Labs, not Epiphany Acoustics... they both sell pre-built ones but JDS Labs sells them in the states. Dunno why I got mixed up.
> That amp should be all you need for practically any headphone. Just make sure the parts you get are for the O2. If I didn't have the E9 as my secondary, I would have bought an O2 myself. Though I'd prefer to wait for the ODA/ODAC combo coming out in the future, as it's more appropriately sized.


 
   
  Yeah, I got confused on the website. I clicked a link for a BOM and thought it was still for the O2 amp 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That sucks. I was excited because I troubleshoot boards to the component level (among other things) for a living. So, when I saw a DIY list I was like Sheeeeet I can do this blindfolded and still do it better than most machine processes. (I am a damn artist with a soldering iron.) Seriously, when I do a 64 pin fine pitch I.C. it looks better than the Pick n' Place machine and I.R. Re-flow oven. The head Electrical Engineer once accused me of lying after replacing one. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I do not have a big ego. This is just one thing I AM good at.
   
  Well, without a PCB and parts list, the idea of making my own loses it's appeal. I would rather pay than spec. the individual parts. (pain in the *****)
   
  ODA/ODAC??????? I will look this up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ODA is the desktop version of the O2, though its still a ways off. The ODAC is the DAC made by the guy who brought the O2, so it should be great. Its near release.


----------



## JdmKicks94

Has anyone used the brainwavz hm5's for gaming? I'm looking into buying a mixamp and modmic for them and wondering if they're worth it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> For my ears, the Mixamp has plenty volume mixed in with the modmic. My wife's ears are even more sensitive to where she says I'm deaf having the volume that loud--and I'm only at 60% gaming online with voice. Everyone's hearing is different, so if the volume not enough for you, bi-amp it. Getting our setup sounding the way we want is what makes all this so fun.
> 
> Like I said, I bought the FiiO E11 thinking I would need it, but ended up not needing it. However, I do want to try down the road pairing the Q701 with the M-Stage since it increases its soundstage. I'm also a sucker for large soundstages.


 
   
  I should note that the benefits from the M-stage are subtle, and since you already said you don't need the extra volume from the E11, I wouldn't go out and spend $250 on an M-stage just for the purpose of double amping the mixamp.  It gives the sound a little more breathing room, but not $250 worth.
   
  It's more like: "If your already looking for desktop amps in the price range, consider it."
  Or: "If you already have a M-stage, try hooking it up."


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Hey MLE. I have 2 questions.
   
  1. The list you made for the headphones in different categories, are they in order or preference or random? 
   
  2. Has anyone tried the DT 770/80 with an Equalizing amp like the Fiio e17 or Fischer HA-02? If the bass is the only reason the headphone scores low for competitive gaming it could always be reduced? 
   
  My 770 should be here in a couple of hours but I don't have an EQ amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Random.

Thought about an alpha list, but I'm of the lazy sort, so... yeah.

As for the second question, if you're going to EQ, go for it. I would myself and have. I'm sure you can tweak a headphone to your liking. EQ can dramatically alter a headphone's sound. All I have said has been with the headphone's original sound.

For the sake of the general masses, I like my headphones to sound as they were intended. If I judged a headphone after EQ, I'm not judging the headphones...I'm judging the EQ, which doesn't help anyone.

As for the positive side of EQ: Subtractive EQ is the best method, and I'd say a prime candidate would be the DT990s getting a treble reduction, though I'm skeptical on how well the E17 drives them.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I should note that the benefits from the M-stage are subtle, and since you already said you don't need the extra volume from the E11, I wouldn't go out and spend $250 on an M-stage just for the purpose of double amping the mixamp.  It gives the sound a little more breathing room, but not $250 worth.
> 
> It's more like: "If your already looking for desktop amps in the price range, consider it."
> Or: "If you already have a M-stage, try hooking it up."


 
   
  Thanks chicolom, I'll save my money and use it to snap up a D7000 instead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ironsnake said:


> Thanks chicolom, I'll save my money and use it to snap up a D7000 instead.




That came out of nowhere, and I approve this wholeheartedly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's crazy, I've been listening to the D7000 all day, and then switched to the Q701 for the past hour. The Q701 definitely has more mid bass.

Don't get me wrong. This level is what I'd consider great, I just really am too sensitive to mid bass, so in my personal preference, a weaker mid bass is probably to my liking. I can appreciate the very obvious difference between the two headphones. The Denons have a strong sub bass and reserved mid bass, whereas the Q701 has reserved sub bass, and quantifiable amount of mid bass. I'd say it's balanced to slightly emphasized.

The two headphones really do compliment each other well.

If I could change the Q701 more to my optimal preference in sound, I'd add a few decibels of sub bass, and subtract just a hint of mid bass. The Q701's bass isn't as omnipresent as the Denons (sub bass lingers and fills the sound spectrum a bit more), but it sure as hell hits harder when it comes to the quick hits, like in drum and bass tracks.

In any case, the Q701 is certainly right next to the DT880 when it comes to well balanced headphones that I can certainly enjoy for all purposes. 

I don't use them often for music, but everytime I do, I ask myself how could I not? They're fantastic. I guess the reason I always reach for the Denons for music is because most of my music really highlights sub bass, so I enjoy them more.

I could've been given the Q701 early on in this obsession, and I would've been 100% satisfied. They're just worth it. I honestly don't see how spending a crapton more money could improve that much more on what the Q701 does.

If AKG sold these for $500-600 with a higher quality build like the Denons, I wouldn't complain. They certainly sound every bit as good as the Denons, just with a different signature and balance.

So again, to people like Chicolom, I have to really thank you for really being positive about the Q701. If it weren't for you guys, I'd have skipped them for sure, as I wasn't a fan of the K701 in the same way. You saved me a lot of cash, as I may have went with the HE500 or T1 down the line. I have no need to now. That says a lot.


----------



## IronSnake

mad lust envy said:


> That came out of nowhere, and I approve this wholeheartedly.


 

 LOL. I am planning to get a closed pair for gaming in noisy situations, so I was thinking of getting the D2000 with markl mod. That puts me at $320 total, so throw in the $250 saved from not needing the M-Stage, I've got enough for the D7000, which I should've pulled the trigger when I had it in my cart at EE with the coupon a couple months ago. I'm still regretting chickening out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, to be honest, the Denons aren't going to be very competent in noisy situations. They don't isolate outside noises well. They don't leak out much, but I would look elsewhere if you're trying to keep exterior noises out.


----------



## Zulkr9

Any recommendation for a closed back headphone for competitive css, I cant use an open back in lan events and isolation is a must in that noisy enviorment


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I could've been given the Q701 early on in this obsession, and I would've been 100% satisfied. They're just worth it. I honestly don't see how spending a crapton more money could improve that much more on what the Q701 does.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I totally agree.  
   
  It's crazy that we went through so many headphones to get to them.  It's like I tried just about every other option first, but the last one was the best  They firmly squashed the upgrade-itis bug for me.  They really are on another level from some of the other cans I've tried. 
   
  I've been very pro-Q701 on the forums 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  I'm happy If I've been able to persuade other people to give them a try, and they hear what I hear from them.  I knew after listening to them that I had found _my_ headphone.  I love everything about them (_minus the headband_





), and I get excited talking about them.  They give me warm fuzzy feelings 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  They weren't that many headphone-gaming threads around a couple years ago.  That monstrous thread on AVS first got me interested.  KBI, and those other guys were like the founding fathers of headphone gaming.  You started trying to consolidate the info into a guide for everyone, and I thought that was great, but then they shut you down LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  I really think by making this thread you've expanded this type of community.  So thank you MLE _/Shin CZ/Raven Crimson_ for sharing and consolidating your experience and information with the rest of us!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really wish they'd let me log on to my original account over there, but its no biggie. I don't go to AVS much, as those guys are mostly headset type of guys, and I've outgrown headsets in general. They do a great job keeping that thread alive though.

And lol with forum names. Should've seen me on Adventchildren.net. I had over 50 names there. Something crazy.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I really wish they'd let me log on to my original account over there, but its no biggie. I don't go to AVS much, as those guys are mostly headset type of guys, and I've outgrown headsets in general. They do a great job keeping that thread alive though.
> And lol with forum names. Should've seen me on Adventchildren.net. I had over 50 names there. Something crazy.


 
   
  Haha.  Ya, don't worry AVS, the Tritton Warheads are "Coming Soon!" 
   
  Only Head-fi accommodates ridiculous amounts of avatars.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just wish Head-fi didn't compress the image quality. I have an eye for such things, and notice the slightest artifacts. Troublesome limitations. ACF was great as it had a currency system, where you'd gain 'money' for posting daily and whatnot. With that money, you could change your username, name color, bold, italic, custom titles, and other cool stuff. God, I miss that forum. So much drama too, lol. At one point I 'hacked' the system by transferring the currency from one profile to another. I clicked so fast while transferring, that I ended up with an infinite amount. I broke the currency system, and it was frozen for weeks, until I helped them to understand the exploit. I must have been banned more times than I can count, but I was friends with admins and was let off the hook quite a bit. XD

Too much time on forums...considering I have the laziest job in history.

*edit:* Oh another thing the Q701 does so incredibly well... low volume listening. When I come home from work and I'm just overall tired, I like to listen at moderately low volume. The Q701 retains so much clarity and overall balance, that I can't see myself doing with the D7000, which at low levels would be too warm and smooth for my taste.

So again, big ups to the Q701.


----------



## -shu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I could've been given the Q701 early on in this obsession, and I would've been 100% satisfied. They're just worth it. I honestly don't see how spending a crapton more money could improve that much more on what the Q701 does.
> If AKG sold these for $500-600 with a higher quality build like the Denons, I wouldn't complain. They certainly sound every bit as good as the Denons, just with a different signature and balance.
> So again, to people like Chicolom, I have to really thank you for really being positive about the Q701. If it weren't for you guys, I'd have skipped them for sure, as I wasn't a fan of the K701 in the same way. You saved me a lot of cash, as I may have went with the HE500 or T1 down the line. I have no need to now. That says a lot.


 
   
  Wow. I guess now I will have you to thank when I order my Q701's! I probably won't be buying any more audio gear after getting them with the STX, and I think I will be 100% satisfied with them


----------



## Richard0600

Can someone give me some advice on what I should buy? I was literally about to click 'buy' for wireless 
  Astro A40 + mixamp when someone recommended I have a look at this thread first. Now I am 
  completely overwhelmed as to what to buy or do.
   
  I am a huge audio noob.. so by all means treat my like a dumbass. I currently have a soundcard on my
  computer a Razer Barracuda AC-1. I'm not sure if it counts to anything but I just wanted to let you know
  in case this was relevant. link: http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169415400
   
  From what I read. It seems like you highly recommend:
K701/Q701/HD598/PC360/AD700/DT990 Premium model/D7000/HE-4
   
What stood out was the PC360. I live in Australia. Shipping is quite expensive. Most of these things ​ are WAY overpriced here and they're way cheaper to deliver from the states. So the less items I have to ​ deliver the better. I just have a few questions before I commit to this purchase. I will primarily be using​ this for Gaming/Music/Skype probably in that order. Does my soundcard count for anything? or is it just junk.​ Do I need to buy the astro a40 mixamp? (I think you mentioned that you coupled all your headphones with​ this to get the best result?)​  ​ If you think you have any better solutions I would gladly take it. My budgets probably around $300 USD​ hopefully that includes everything as well as shipping. The budget is flexible but not THAT flexible..​ $400 is probably MAX and that's hurting my bank account lol..​  ​ Thanks in advance any advice from anyone would be most welcomed.​ *(edit: moved this comment to this post...)*​


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





richard0600 said:


> Can someone give me some advice on what I should buy? I was literally about to click 'buy' for wireless
> Astro A40 + mixamp when someone recommended I have a look at this thread first. Now I am
> completely overwhelmed as to what to buy or do.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't worry about the mixamp if your not playing on consoles. 
   
  It seems like that Razer card may have dolby headphone, which is the same thing the mixamp has for surround sound.  I don't know much about soundcards though, so I can't help you on whether or not it's good besides that.
   
  You can either go for a headset like the Sennheiser PC360, or you can get normal headphones and add something like an antlion modmic or a clip on mic.  Normal headphones usually have better audio quality than headsets, but the PC360s are quite good for a headset.
   
  As for the headphones, it comes down to personal preference.  How much bass/mids/treble do you want (do you want them to emphasize a certain frequency)?  Do you need them to isolate sound?  What kind of music are you going to be listening to with them?


----------



## Richard0600

Quote:


chicolom said:


> Don't worry about the mixamp if your not playing on consoles.
> 
> It seems like that Razer card may have dolby headphone, which is the same thing the mixamp has for surround
> sound.  I don't know much about soundcards though, so I can't help you on whether or not it's good besides that.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the reply chicolom. I've been practically every 10 mins in hopes that someone would reply ><.
  I added a few points in the thread I moved my previous comment to. But in case you didn't see it here is
  a photo of my sound card Razer Barracuda AC-1. Here are the specs:
   

  Razer Fidelity gaming audio engine
  Razer Enhanced Sonic Perception
  Integrated 24-bit / 192KHz S/PDIF receiver/transmitter
  Dolby® Prologic IIx surround processor
  Dolby® Digital Live 5.1 encoder
  Dolby® Headphone technology
  Dolby® Virtual Speaker
  DTS® NeoPC
  DTS® Interactive real-time encoder
  7.1-channel digital audio playback
  Supports EAX™ 2.0, Aureal3D™ 1.0 and DirectSound
   
  I've been tossing back pros and cons for getting headset+mic primarily because of cost vs quality and having to deal with 2 wires as oppose to one. The cheapest ones I can find off of the ones I am contemplating off ebay are (Of course I am up for suggestions):
   
HD598 $278 + 47 for modmic (shipping inc) = $325
AD700 - $125 + ModMic = $172
DT990 Pro - $275 + ModMic = $322
  (K701 & Q701 others that I looked at. But were a bit out of my budget..350+ just for headphone)
   
_(Someone on another forum suggested I get one of these: FiiO E11 to attach to my headset as well on top of my_
_Razer soundcard. Not sure if it is overkill.. or if they clash with each other. But if so then the total of this would_
come up to around HD598*~* $390 / AD700 ~ $240 / DT990 Pro ~ $390
   
Cheapest PC360 I can find is $250 Assuming I don't need any other things to add to this
   
   
  As for music I primarily listen to trance.. which is by itself a pretty broad genre. Most tracks start off with a
  heavy bass progressive intro which transitions into a 'dreamy' 'trance' melody. I've never studied music
  nor do I really know how to answer you when you ask me about which frequency..bass/mids/treble
  BUT I can give you two examples as to how the genre varies:
   
[size=1.8333em] Gareth Emery feat. Christina Novelli - Concrete Angel[/size] [size=1.8333em] Orion & J. Shore - White Birds (Tom Fall Remix)[/size]   
  Thanks appreciate the feedback


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say the DT990 Pro is too bassy to use with a mic, IMHO, but its perfect for Trance. None of the others on your list would be lively enough for Trance, IMHO.


----------



## Richard0600

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd say the DT990 Pro is too bassy to use with a mic, IMHO, but its perfect for Trance. None of the others on your list would be lively enough for Trance, IMHO.


 
   
  I really value your opinion since you kind of opened my eyes to a wider selection of headphones.  
  I would probably be sitting here waiting for a pair of Astro A40s if It wasn't for you so I am forever in your debt.
  If you have any recommendations as to which pair of headphones I should get I would appreciate it greatly!
   
*So in case of TL;DR for the other posts here is a summary of all my posts:*
   

 Need new headphone/headset. For Games (Mass Effect 3/Diablo 3) & Music (Trance)
 *Budget:* $350 USD (Including shipping and all accessories (amps if needed))
 Already have Razer Barracuda AC-1 Sound Card  - Tech Specs (Do I still need an additional amp? FiiO E11 was suggested)
 List of potential headphone + modmic($47) / headsets:
 
  HD598 -  $278 + ModMic = $325
  AD700 - $125 + ModMic = $172
  DT990 Pro - $275 + ModMic = $322
  PC360 - $250
  (K701 & Q701 pushing the budget $350+)
  (If FiiO E11 is needed then that is an additional 60 + shipping)


----------



## Richard0600

(repost)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly the only headphones that come close that I've heard are the DT880 and Q701, and the Premium DT990. These 3 I could use for music and gaming, but they all have their sacrifices.

The Q701 wouldn't be my first or second option for Trance.

DT880 do everything well, but they just don't work for FPS games.

PREMIUM DT990 works for everything, but the treble is love/hate. If the treble wasn't an issue, they'd be your best choice, IMHO. I like them more than the Q701, but I didn't need them anymore, since the D7000 was better for the same purposes, and I wanted something that complimented the D7000 and not compete with it.

Honestly with your limited budget, I'd say:

AD700 + Modmic + Creative Aurvana Live (for music and fun gaming)

You wouldn't need an extra amp, and you'd have all bases covered. I know multiple headphones are a hard sell, but when you're needing something for everything, multiple headphones are the best bet. I feel it best to own two headphones that specialize in two different areas, than one more expensive one that don't exactly cover the same grounds as well.

This can be an expensive hobby, but those two headphones are excellent in areas I've mentioned and both SHOULD BE cheaper than just one of the others mentioned.


----------



## Richard0600

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly the only headphones that come close that I've heard are the DT880 and Q701, and the Premium DT990. These 3 I could use for music and gaming, but they all have their sacrifices.
> The Q701 wouldn't be my first or second option for Trance.
> DT880 do everything well, but they just don't work for FPS games.
> PREMIUM DT990 works for everything, but the treble is love/hate. If the treble wasn't an issue, they'd be your best choice, IMHO. I like them more than the Q701, but I didn't need them anymore, since the D7000 was better for the same purposes, and I wanted something that complimented the D7000 and not compete with it.
> ...


 
   
I manage to find a pair of "LNIB Beyerdynamic DT990 DT 990 PREMIUM 250 Ohm" (used apparently he used it for about an hour.. an decided to go back to his DT880 and forgot to return to amazon... always been a bit skeptical on 2nd hand stuff..) for $215 USD which is a steal? I dunno. Would you recommend this over everything else?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do, but they'd need an amp, and I can't guarantee you could handle the treble.


----------



## Richard0600

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I do, but they'd need an amp, and I can't guarantee you could handle the treble.


 
  This is so mind boggling, a part of me just wants to order the pc360 and be done with it. But I don't want a turtle beach z6a incident again lol.
  Is there anyway for me to experience what you mean when you say 'handle the treble'? I barely even know what treble is so


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Treble is the upper range of sound. Like the highest pitch levels. Cymbals crashing, usually the 'S' sounds in music. Well, the DT990's have a tendency of exaggerating treble, to the point of it being grating and harsh to a LOT of people.

The PC360 is a fine headset that well perform well for gaming. It's just that for Trance... well, it's not going to make you jump out of your seat. I don't particularly care for them when it comes to music. Anything the PC360 can do, the Q701 can do better.

I tell people, with electronic genres, you DON'T want a headphone that I rate highly on the competitive side. 

Electronic Music and hardcore gaming usually don't work well with just one headphone. The D7000 is a very expensive exception, and not one I can just blindly recommend, obviously, which is why I hated putting it on this list. The Q701 is close, but I'd still not consider them right for stuff like trance.

Seriously if SHOOTERS aren't an importance, the DT880 is the best headphone I can recommend for all purposes.


----------



## Richard0600

(edit)
   
  I manage to get a good deal on a brand new HD598 that I was monitoring on eBay. I know it wasn't exactly what
  we discussed and you might be disappointed about my purchase. But I am quite happy with my purchase. I would
  like to thank everyone that helped and especially Mad Lust Envy. I am now a proud owner of my first pair of real
  headphones 
   
  Thought I'd upload this for fun: 

  Ductaped back together I shoved leather pieces into that little
  hinge part so that the ear cup will stays in place.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah, those are just like the Turtle Beach Z2 that I have on the list. The first pair I got, it broke EXACTLY where your duct tape is, as SOON as I tried to adjust the headband for the very first time.

Glad to see Turtle Beach is still sucking it up. :rolleyes:


----------



## Jodiuh

How bout the Q701's lan factor? I took my very open HD580's along w/ the closed DT770. It was simply too hard to pinpoint anything w/ the background noise the sennheiser let in. :/
   
  Perhaps some outer muffs to close the sound up?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should never take open headphones to loud environments. The Q701 is open. So no.


----------



## Richard0600

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You should never take open headphones to loud environments. The Q701 is open. So no.


 
  That's what I figured. Never understood why the Astro A40s were open.. don't 'pros' use them at events with hundreds of people cheering etc.
 Also I was with my new HD598 since it is open.. does the noise leak a lot? Will my gf sitting behind me hear my music etc..?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Astros are actually closed., The speaker tags can be removed to make them 'open', though they're more like semi-closed than anything.

The HD598 is very open, and anyone in your proximity will be able to hear what you're listening to.


----------



## chicolom

Just borrowed my sisters HifiMan RE0's to listen to some dolby headphone youtube videos.  While the soundstage size sounds cute and baby-sized compared to my Q701s, the imaging/positioning accuracy is actually surprisingly good.  You could definitely game with them.
   
  I wonder how IEMs like the Sennheiser IE8 sound for gaming (the IE8 is supposed to have a very large soundstage for an IEM - on par with many full sized headphones).  I bet it would do rather well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to see my opinion of them mirrors yours. 

They are a valid alternative, though they do have a very miniscule soundstage. Positioning is top notch, and I didn't have a problem discerning front/rear sounds with them. I'm just not much of an IEM guy, and the RE0s are pretty sterile sounding.


----------



## chicolom

Yes, the RE0s are quite flat and not very "fun".  Not much bass from them.  Nice detail though.
   
  I don't really like having plugs_ in_ my ears, and certainly not for hours at a time.  I prefer the less invasive earbuds to the actual in-ear phones. 
   
  I'm currently browsing for some cheapish earbuds that have decent soundstage for movie/tv watching that I can use when I'm out and about.  The Koss clip-ons are somewhat fragile for throwing in a bag.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





richard0600 said:


> Also I was with my new HD598 since it is open.. does the noise leak a lot? Will my gf sitting behind me hear my music etc..?


 
   
  HD598s leak a lot.  Many open headphones do.


----------



## 1rkrage

which closed headphone would you guys recommend under $100 and which for under $150?
   
  I know closed and gaming don't jive too much, but I'm willing to sacrifice a bit so I don't have to pump up the volume too much when the air conditioner is on. I have sensitive ears and my right ear hurts a bit when there is too much noise. So, Noise-isolation/dampening would be my number 1 criterion in this regard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, using my NFB5, it's quite clear to me the optical input is more neutral than the USB one. I have been using the optical for awhile, and decided to go to USB.... the difference was evident. USB is warmer, and smoother. This is probably why I didn't like the NFB5 when I FIRST got it, as the slight warmthness didn't sit well with me for the D7000. Having used the optical input for awhile, I've had nothing but love for this thing. Now I know why. Looks like I didn't even need the MOON opamp. I can just switch to USB for the Q701, and give it that extra warmth which is beneficial.

1rkage: Almost all the closed headphones I like for gaming don't isolate well, sadly. The DT770 pro 80 does isolate well, so if you don't mind an obvious bass oriented sound, the 770 pro 80s will suit you fine. They are just slightly over your budget.


----------



## WakiDabeast

any ideas about the pr700mkii with proper fps eq settings, or the HTF600?
 I'm looking for COD4 gaming competitive.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wakidabeast said:


> any ideas about the pr700mkii with proper fps eq settings, or the HTF600?
> I'm looking for COD4 gaming competitive.


 
  I do like my Panasonic RP-HTF600-S, with Velour ear pads.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





wakidabeast said:


> any ideas about the pr700mkii with proper fps eq settings, or the HTF600?
> I'm looking for COD4 gaming competitive.


 
   
  I wouldn't get the Pro700 MkII with the _intent _of using them for competitive gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, everywhere on the internet, the Pro 700 MK II is said to be ridiculously over saturated with bass. Common sense dictates not to use those for competitive gaming.


----------



## genclaymore

Unless you want your head to explode as soon a grenade goes off.


----------



## olor1n

Don't game much nowadays but I've just tried the MixAmp with my HD800. Playing BF3. Awesome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sure it must be like what I hear with the Q701 but on STEROIDS, lol.

Are you using just the Mixamp, or do you have an amp attached post Mixamp?

I wonder how well the Mixamp does with the HD800 alone, considering Dolby Headphone tends to mask inadequate amping compared to stereo music listening. I don't have much issue with it alone with 600ohm Beyers (sans mic volume issues), and I'm sure the HD800 is quite enjoyable as well.

I 'envy' you. I'd love to try the HD800 for gaming someday. That soundstage must be glorious.


----------



## WakiDabeast

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, everywhere on the internet, the Pro 700 MK II is said to be ridiculously over saturated with bass. Common sense dictates not to use those for competitive gaming.


 
  even with eq?


----------



## WakiDabeast

oh yeah hows the htf600 for gaming


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I 'envy' you. I'd love to try the HD800 for gaming someday. That soundstage must be glorious.


 
   
  Since HD800s are supposedly the king of soundstage, they're probably the only phones I'm interested in trying besides the Q701s.  I think everything else in-between (T1, HD700, Shure 1840, etc.) wouldn't be enough of an improvement over Q701.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





wakidabeast said:


> even with eq?


 
   
  You should try to avoid getting phones that you know will need EQ-ing to work.  Also, you can't fix their soundstage with EQ.  They're just not a good choice for competitive gaming.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





wakidabeast said:


> oh yeah hows the htf600 for gaming


 
   
  I use it with my SU-DH1 when playing console games.
   
  It does bring out the positional cues with Dolby Headphone alright, though I doubt it's an AD700 or Stax Lambda in that regard due to the relative lack of soundstage. As for sound signature, I expect it to be more suited to big, boomy explosions and gunshots compared to picking out footsteps...not that I have that kind of sneaky FPS gameplay on a console at all.


----------



## chicolom

Interesting, Beyerdynamic T90.  Tesla successor to the DT990?


----------



## olor1n

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm sure it must be like what I hear with the Q701 but on STEROIDS, lol.
> 
> Are you using just the Mixamp, or do you have an amp attached post Mixamp?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I used to feed the MixAmp into the Audio-GD FUN when I had that. It helped improve clarity when I used the HD650 for gaming. The FUN is long gone and amps I've owned since unfortunately haven't had additional RCA inputs to allow a DAC and MixAmp to be plugged in at the same time. I've been less than a casual gamer for some time now, and the MixAmp only saw light of day when watching movies/tv shows on my PS3. The LCD-2 plugged directly into the MixAmp for this use is pretty damn good though. Excellent and deep bass in abundance, without smothering dialogue or other details.
   
  The HD800 plugged straight into the MixAmp is holographic and incredibly immersive. I only played BF3 (on Live/360), with audio set to Home Cinema and other processing disabled in the game menu. I think the HD800 soundstage is an overstated myth. Yes, it's an incredibly open sounding headphone, but its soundstage is not exaggerated or artificial imho. What gives it this open sound and great imaging is the speed of the driver and frontal centre image presented by the angle of the large cups. The driver's ability to start/stop is its main strength, resulting in every single detail being resolved with precision and clarity. You're assaulted with sound, but it's not a single disorientating blob. Every element has a character, and a point of origin.
   
  Also, the HD800 when plugged into a decent system presents well extended and highly resolved low end. It doesn't have the weight of the LCD-2's bass, but then what headphone does? I was expecting the HD800's bass to be compromised when plugged directly into the MixAmp, but I was surprised at the impact and rumble of it. The few times I played with the LCD-2 I recall the bass being overbearing, especially when you're in the thick of all the action.
   
  The HD800 is just so convincing when paired with the MixAmp for gaming. I don't think I've ever been as immersed sonically.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Interesting, Beyerdynamic T90.  Tesla successor to the DT990?






I thought they said that there weren't any plans for DT880 and DT990 inspired Teslas in the near future? I guess Beyer just couldn't resist.

And although I am happy with what I have, I will DEFINITELY keep an eye out for the T90 and probably get them once it's released and reviewed and compared. Those velours man... Beyer knows exactly how to tease me. There's no WAY I can't NOT get those. I may end up giving up the Q701 just for those T90s... just saying...


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I thought they said that there weren't any plans for DT880 and DT990 inspired Teslas in the near future? I guess Beyer just couldn't resist.
> And although I am happy with what I have, I will DEFINITELY keep an eye out for the T90 and probably get them once it's released and reviewed and compared. Those velours man... Beyer knows exactly how to tease me. *There's no WAY I can't NOT get those*. I may end up giving up the Q701 just for those T90s... just saying...


 
   
  baffling.


----------



## Rebel975

Triple negative. haha
   
  But yeah, those T90's look interesting. I really liked the 880/990.


----------



## chicolom

I just hope they have the same deep cups and angled drivers of the T1.


----------



## NamelessPFG

So many headphones, so little money...
   
  As much as I want to sample everything (up to and including the Stax SR-009) so I'm not paralyzed with uncertainty every time I try to recommend headphones to people who don't have the budget for even vintage Stax Lambda setups, my budget just doesn't allow for that.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Little question,
  As a substitute for a PC360
  Would a modded HD555 or modded hHD558 work better for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, triple negative. That's how excited I was when I heard of them. XD

You all know what I meant. 

I must have those.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> Little question,
> As a substitute for a PC360
> Would a modded HD555 or modded hHD558 work better for gaming?


 
   
  HD558 + modmic should sound at least as good _if not __better _than PC360s...


----------



## caracara08

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha, triple negative. That's how excited I was when I heard of them. XD
> You all know what I meant.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  lol yeah.  
   
  i regret putting my mod mic on where i did. it makes it kinda awkward. i put it right in front of where the cable goes into the bottom of the cup.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q71TaPCmdtU[/VIDEO]

So Steggy FINALLY got around to reviewing the PC360. Even did comparisons to the A40s. Verdict: His favorite headset ever.


----------



## Noisecr

Orders have been placed.
   
  1- Modmic
  2- AKG Q701
  3- Mixamp Pro
   
  It takes about 5 days to get stuff here (Costa Rica) after it arrives to the postal office (in Florida).  I'm getting the modmic probably tomorrow, the Q701s in 3 days, and I just ordered the mixamp, so it will take a little over a week.
   
  Can't wait.....


----------



## -shu

Quote: 





noisecr said:


> Orders have been placed.
> 
> 1- Modmic
> 2- AKG Q701
> ...


 
   
  Me too. (just ordered yesterday)
   
  1 - AKG Q701
  2 - Xonar Essence STX
   
  Should be pretty screwing sweet. I think I'll get the modmic eventually.


----------



## korky

Awesome thread Mad Lust! was really helpfull in narrowing down my choices. Im now trying to decide between these two
  Quote: 





> *DT990 Pro*
> These are just different enough from the Premiums that I felt needed their own rating. Most of what I've said about the Premium DT990 holds true about the DT990 Pro. However, there is a big difference, and that's in it's mid bass. The kind of bass that attacks your senses directly. The Premium DT990 isn't particularly strong in that department, instead doing the lower bowels of bass some great justice for an open can. The DT990 Pro however has some pretty strong emphasis in all areas of bass. The mid bass hits DAMN hard. It was actually a bit too much for me, as I'm quite sensitive to strong mid bass, as I felt like a jack hammer was hitting me directly in the ears. If bassheads were disappointed in the Premium DT990's bass, they need not look further than the DT990 pro, which is a different beast in that category. But that's the biggest difference. The Premium DT990 and DT990 Pro sound very much the identical to one another otherwise, though the stronger midbass actually helped smooth out the treble a bit, so I felt the treble to be considerably easier on the ears. In this case, it trades off treble discomfort for bass discomfort. Still, I'm a special case, so I'm sure most bassheads would welcome the DT990 Pro with open ears. As for virtual surround placement, these are almost as good as the DT770 Pro 80. They do an amazing job, even more so than the Premium DT990's in this regard. That's why I have to rate them very high on the fun list. They are incredibly immersive. If you can handle aggressive mid bass (not bloated or smothering, but just...very strong), the DT990 Pro is one of the best values in headphones. I just wish I wasn't so sensitive to the particular range of bass that it's so good in.
> Fun: 9/10
> Competitive: 7/10 (the bass while not exactly obtrusive like closed headphones with such a strong emphasis, it is still quite emphasized, so it may distract you)   *HD598*
> ...


 
   
  In terms of aesthetics i much prefer the HD598s to the DT990 Pro. (like by a lot). But ultimately what will decide it for me is the quality. Going by your review both of these headphones are an excellent choice, but i just dont know which one to go with. I'll be in it more for the fun factor than the competitive edge, so it seems like the DT990's are the right choice, but how much of a difference is there between the 6/10 and 9/10 score for fun (keeping in mind this is my first audiophile set). I want to immerse myself in the sound (i imagine explosions going off as if im right there in the game and bullets whizzing past). Reason i ask is if the difference isnt that great (ie. a sound noob wont be able to differentiate), then i will choose the HD598s (i honestly really dont like the look of the DT990s). But obviously the look wont matter if the 598's leave me bored and missing something while all hell is breaking loose.
   
  Oh and what difference is there between the 50Ohms impedance that the 598's generate as a pose to the 250Ohms of the 990s?
   
  Thanks  and good work!!
   
  note: i will be using them only on PC coupled with a Asus Xonar STX


----------



## chicolom

Sony has come out with some new open headphones.  Sony said the new flagship model, MDR MA900, is based on the their old MDR-F1. 
   
  It's got 70mm drivers!
   
  Here's an engrish interview where they talk about it and the MDR-F1.  Not a lot of useful information, but still interesting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those pads... interesting. Not sure it can stack up to velours, but I'm sure they're infinitely better than leather/pleather.

That is one seriously open looking headphone.

They look cheap looking, as well. Not really feeling the design, a bit too utilitarian for me, almost 80's style. They look like they'll be priced at around $200 MSRP, though knowing Sony, I wouldn't put it past them to cost double that.

The cables look thin too. They should honestly use their flat style cables more. I LOVED the flat cables on the XBs.


----------



## chicolom

Ya, it's like Sony was trying to make them as skinny as possible.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Those pads... interesting. Not sure it can stack up to velours, but I'm sure they're infinitely better than leather/pleather.
> That is one seriously open looking headphone.
> They look cheap looking, as well. Not really feeling the design, a bit too utilitarian for me, almost 80's style. They look like they'll be priced at around $200 MSRP, though knowing Sony, I wouldn't put it past them to cost double that.
> The cables look thin too. They should honestly use their flat style cables more. I LOVED the flat cables on the XBs.


 
  That material should handle sweating very well, a very breathable material, that is if it's the type of material I think it is.  Should be very cool.  
   
  And by the way, to my knowledge no artificial leather matches the porosity of leather.  
   
  70mm drivers has me concerned about driver rebound in the lower frequencies and the general level of detail these will be able to put out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm 70mm drivers. Makes me wonder if it's repurposing the XB1000 drivers. Everyone should know by know that drivers are only one part of the sound equation, so I wouldn't put it past Sony. The fully open design is enough to completely alter the sound signature though.


----------



## maverickronin

There are some numbers here.
   
  The big driver is just to get normal bass levels in spite of the very open design that lets all the bass leak out.


----------



## -shu

Just got my Q701's in the mail, much earlier than expected. So for now I have to use them out of my iPod Nano 3G or iMac 27 inch (with Cirrus Logic CS4206A sound chip). I know they are underamped, I can hear it in the sound. However, if I just want to burn them in with random music, will this be okay? That is, is underamping _bad_ for headphones? Or will they just not sound good?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Underamping is not bad for headphones at all. They're just not getting enough power for their potential, is all.


----------



## leaperk

Enjoyed the information in the thread. I ended up upgrading my Ultrasone HFI-650 DVD headphones to the DT990 Pro to use with my mixamp. I was able to pick them up for around $150.00 and it seemed the best bang for my buck. I am curious if it would be worth picking up another pair for competitive gaming in the future or is the sound positioning more then up to the task.  If I do get a second pair in the future I would like to limit the purchase to around $100. Is the AD700 the only game in town for that price or is there another contender for that price range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HD555 can be found near that price too. Mod it, and it will come close to sounding almost like the HD595, if not the same. The PC360 is based off the 595, so the 555 seems like a steal.


----------



## wmf

im using both the DT990/250s and the D7000s for gaming..
   
  im not after super positional pinpoint sound, or a cavernous soundstage  .... im not a competitive gamer, and much prefer the immersion factor...
   
  well both these phones give that... others AD700, AD900, just dont have enough bass to be fun for me...
   
  altho i wouldnt mind trying the HD650s, HE-400s with gaming ..
   
  The D7000s with BF3 are freaking amazing  .... yes soundstage is sacrified, but wow, what a ride...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





leaperk said:


> Enjoyed the information in the thread. I ended up upgrading my Ultrasone HFI-650 DVD headphones to the DT990 Pro to use with my mixamp. I was able to pick them up for around $150.00 and it seemed the best bang for my buck. I am curious if it would be worth picking up another pair for competitive gaming in the future or is the sound positioning more then up to the task.  If I do get a second pair in the future I would like to limit the purchase to around $100. Is the AD700 the only game in town for that price or is there another contender for that price range.


 
  Samson SR850 (made by Superlux) have gotten some good feedback from gamers.


----------



## ChileConCarney

Soooo I've never owned a good pair of headphones just ipod earbuds, $10 replacements, and my avatar has been my current holdoff till I get new phones and I used a turtle beach P 21 for the PS3 back in the days of MW2 and Black Ops.
   
  My budget is $300 tops but would rather not spend more than $200-$250 if possible + a modmic. My needs are unique in that in addition to listening on my laptop, I'm looking for headphones that i can use with my smartphone (mp3 player) thus being portable enough to wear around the neck when not in use, For gaming I also need the headphones to be great for multiplayer FPS yet still deliver a great experience for non competitive single-player games too. (I know that there is often a trade off between two) 
   
  I use a laptop for gaming now but the PC thread by NAMELESS said to come here for headphone advice
   
  for a newbie am do i need a mobile amp and will i have to settle and get a cheap set of sep headphones/earbuds for my mp3 :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So you want the holy grail of headphones. Small enough to be portable/closed/easy to drive, cheap enough, good enough for competitive, and good enough for fun.

You have to sacrifice one or more of these things as nothing exists all in one small headphone.

Perhaps the Creative Aurvana Live, but the competitive aspect lags behind it's proficiency with music and fun gaming. It's decent in that aspect, but it's warm signature doesn't scream 'analyze sounds'.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chileconcarney said:


> My needs are unique in that in addition to listening on my laptop, I'm looking for headphones that i can use with my smartphone (mp3 player) thus* being portable enough to wear around the neck when not in use.*


 
   
  Well if you want full sized headphones, which usually perform the best for gaming, you probably won't be able to wear them around your neck.
   
  The K550 meets most of your criteria, except for being small.  I don't think the AKG K550 is too hard to drive, and the earcups fold flat so they _might_ be able to be worn around the neck (they're still huge though).


----------



## ChileConCarney

keys words being "good enough" so ill check out your suggestion. For my budget the 598 didn't look that bad ( ok they "looked bad") but seemed to fit the bill the cuffs didn't look to big either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All 3 are fully open, and don't isolate whatsoever. They will not work for portable use unless you wanna agitate people around you and want the outside noises to constantly seep in.


----------



## ChileConCarney

thanks i knew they were open but didn't know that they would be *that* much of a problem to others.


----------



## -shu

There is definitely a trade-off between every quality you listed. I mean, you can have a great soundstage for gaming on your laptop and great music quality for your music listening, but those are only available in full-size, open (even the closed ones are still pretty leaky) headphones. For your mp3 player I would strongly suggest sub-$100 IEM's like RE0 or RE-ZERO (which is similar to RE0 except easier to drive and more expensive) since IEM's are the most portable and can have good sound quality and isolation, but no soundstage.


----------



## I95North

I have a question to ask of the experts here?
   
   is it  good practice to use lets say a mixamp headphone out going into lets say a fiio e11 or e17  if i needed more umpffffff for my lets say k 701 or HE-400 or HE-500??
   
  Also if yes is the answer does sound quality take a hit??
   
  Anyone know??


----------



## Jae304

Quote: 





i95north said:


> I have a question to ask of the experts here?
> 
> is it  good practice to use lets say a mixamp headphone out going into lets say a fiio e11 or e17  if i needed more umpffffff for my lets say k 701 or HE-400 or HE-500??
> 
> ...


 
   
  I use a ZO2 with my mixamp to add a little extra power and umph -- it works exceptionally well.  In fact, I can't even use the mixamp without it now, sounds so anemic in comparison. In the case of the ZO2, sound quality does not take a hit at all so i would imagine you'll get the same result with a fiio.


----------



## csf101

Hey guys.

Does anyone have any feedback for the Sennheiser X320 Xbox Headset? I'm looking into buying these for my 360. I'll probably get a Turtle Beach DSS to go along with these for surround sound. 

Thanks for any replies.


----------



## korky

Hey guys, just a quick Q. Do you guys have any experience with the HFi 2400s? Im basically trying to decide between them,the HD598s and the DT990 Pro (was talked out of the q701). any ideas?
   
  ill be mainly using them for gaming (non-competitive, so am looking for immersion), music mainly pop and rap(although a bit of everything else too), and will be pairing them up with the Asus Xonar STX.
   
  Thanks


----------



## korky

oh and also, the gaming will be mainly FPS, so looking for nice explosions and bullets whizzing past!
   
  and i thought i might add, that the reason i decided against the q701s is because their soundstage is apparently so big that the imaging just doesnt work well with it, which makes directional positioning just sound fake. any comments?
   
  thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's utter BS. Those people that call the AKG soundstage 'fake' are using them in STEREO mode, and have no experience with them with Dolby Headphone. The soundstage is just fine in Dolby Headphone, and incredibly accurate, hence why they are among the best on my list. They are literally god mode for your ears. Willing to bet all this 'fake' nonsense comes from those who are listening to music than actual gaming.

Their soundstage isn't much different from the PC360 or AD700 in DH mode, and actually, the AD700 has the largest I've heard.

If you're gonna write them off, soundstage shouldn't be the reason. Id say your taste for rap wouldn't work well with the Q701, but gaming is PERFECT on them.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of AKG soundstage, here's what a Geekhacker has to say:
   


> They can also make center sounds that seems to come at you from 11 and 1 oclock at the same time (incoherent center stage, which is why I hate K701).


 
   
  Something tells me he's not talking about using it in binaural mode (Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D Headphone, etc.) at all, though.
   
  Still, I don't think huge soundstage and incoherent center stage have to go hand in hand, if my Stax Lambda is any indication.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If anything, a huge soundstage like the AKG's is beneficial because it gives the sound a bigger area to place sounds, allowing for more precision. Small soundstages like the HD280 Pro or M50 places sounds so close together, making it harder to precisely locate a sound.


----------



## chicolom

BTW, in case anyone was wondering about the Audio Technica ATH-TAD500 - they are NOT great for gaming.  They have a nice signature, but the soundstage unfortunately falls to the the smaller side. 
   
  I'm working on a TAD500 review that will be up soon...


----------



## korky

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's utter BS. Those people that call the AKG soundstage 'fake' are using them in STEREO mode, and have no experience with them with Dolby Headphone. The soundstage is just fine in Dolby Headphone, and incredibly accurate, hence why they are among the best on my list. They are literally god mode for your ears. Willing to bet all this 'fake' nonsense comes from those who are listening to music than actual gaming.
> Their soundstage isn't much different from the PC360 or AD700 in DH mode, and actually, the AD700 has the largest I've heard.
> If you're gonna write them off, soundstage shouldn't be the reason. Id say your taste for rap wouldn't work well with the Q701, but gaming is PERFECT on them.


 
  they were giving examples of the soundstage in music so that could be it, they just didnt use them for gaming im assuming.
  How do you mean that they wont work well for rap? i will be using them for gaming and music, (but not excessive amounts of music) so would i be left disappointed in anyway with my music then? in which case any recommendations between the q701, dt990 pro, hd598 or hfi 2400? i noticed you havent tested the hfi2400, but from what reviews i gathered (and they are very scarce to say the least) it seems like its all-rounder. Like i mentioned itll be mainly for fps gaming and more for the fun factor (in which i include soundstage, imaging, realistic sounds, bass), just as long as my pop and rap dont sound bad.
   
  ps. if you have any other suggestions please feel free, my budget is $350 (not including my xonar stx), and i just want to be wowed


----------



## genclaymore

It wouldn't work for rap for those who are bass heads, but those that are not bass heads they work just fine.  I used the AKG 702 which are similar to the K701, with electronic Dnb and dubstep and I enjoyed them with it too with it deep bass. Those who love hard hitting bass in those type of music would frown on you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not a basshead, but I find the Q701 to not be a great match for EDM or Rap. Bass is decent, but not impactful enough, IMHO. The DT880s aren't basshead cans at all, and they walk all over the Q701 for that type of music.

But you can't have everything. The Q701 is a great all rounder, just needs a smidge more lower bass to truly consider them rap/edm worthy.


----------



## Eric_C

korky: Just based on how much info you said is available, I would rule out the HFI 2400. No data = no go.
   
Based on discussion in this thread for the 990, 598 and Q701:
  - 598 should be ruled out, it doesn't get described as a top choice for gaming. Or for bass.
  - 990 is a risky choice; good for gaming + movies, great bass, highs could be annoying. Depends on the individual.
  - Q701 is a good, safe choice. Only area they may lack for you is in bass.
   
  As MLE alluded to, the Beyer DT 880 trades in one strength of the Q701 for one flaw:
  - Better bass than Q701
  - Lousier positioning (you can't tell when people are at 6 o'clock)
*Everyone* who games with the 880 agrees on that flaw, myself included. If you can live with that gaming flaw, as a _non-basshead_, I think it's a decent all-rounder and has some pretty nice bass going on. Not the strongest, but if a track has good bass or a game/movie has good explosions, it should be loud and good enough.
   
  Again, comparing 880 to Q701 only:
  If gaming is more important, Q701.
  If bass is more important, 880


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since FPS is a priority, I'd sure skip the DT880. I was mainly using the DT880s as an example of non-basshead cans that do bass quite well, where the Q701 can't quite keep up.

I must say that using the Q701 with the Mixamp 5.8's bass exapander really gives them all the bass I want from them.

So if anyone is thinking of pairing up the 5.8's with the Q701, it's a great combo especially with the bass expander on, if you want more bass out of them.

People should note that the Mixamp's bass expander tends to add just a few decibels to lower level bass, and not mid bass, which is why some people may feel it doesn't do much. Considering the least prominent area on the Q701 happens to be sub bass, the slight emphasis really helped flesh out the sound.

Also, keep in mind that the bass expander may or may not distort during some very tasking bass passages.

I myself only use the bass button when watching movies. I find the Q701 easier on the head than the D7000 (again, velour vs pleather), and I prefer the richer vocals on the Q701 so I can hear what everyone is saying in the movies easier. For music, it's an overwhelming victory for the D7000 in most cases, so I don't use the Q701 for that purpose unless I wanna listen to music in a different tonal balance than the D7000, which isn't often. If the Q701 was my only headphone, I'd have bought some dedicated music amp with a subtle bass boost in there somewhere.


----------



## korky

thanks heaps guys!! must say you cleared up a few things  appreciate it! so looks like (after a long while i must say) its coming to either the dt 990pro and the q701. Correct me if im wrong but its basically the bigger soundstage of the q701 vs the bigger bass of the 990pro? One thing, i read a couple of people saying that the q701 suffered from some sort of "plasticky tonality" to them, one which wasn't too recognizable at first but after they tested the HFi 2400 they could easily pick it out. Any opinions on the q701s not sounding natural?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say that is more apparent with the K701 than the Q701. If the Q701 comes of as plastic, the DT990 pro will come off as positively sizzling.

You're always gonna get negative remarks about any headphone that is popular. Just choose one and decide for yourself, because only you can say what's worthwhile, and what isn't.

The DT990 Pro is way too bass heavy, IMHO, and won't be very helpful for FPS gaming due to all that bass. The DT990 Pros are for pure bassheads, not people that like some bass emphasis. It's not a slight tip towards bass, it's a VERY big tip towards it.


----------



## korky

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd say that is more apparent with the K701 than the Q701. If the Q701 comes of as plastic, the DT990 pro will come off as positively sizzling.
> You're always gonna get negative remarks about any headphone that is popular. Just choose one and decide for yourself, because only you can say what's worthwhile, and what isn't.
> The DT990 Pro is way too bass heavy, IMHO, and won't be very helpful for FPS gaming due to all that bass. The DT990 Pros are for pure bassheads, not people that like some bass emphasis. It's not a slight tip towards bass, it's a VERY big tip towards it.


 
  sorry that statement just confused me a little bit, you mean that the dt990 pro come off more plastic than the q701 right? in which case looks like the q701 might be my final choice , as long as the bass is at least adequate for gaming. Considering they will cost me $330AU, do you think there will be any other headphone that will do a better job with vocals in music and fps fun gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you think the Q701, then the DT990 pro would too, as it's very bass heavy, and nothing realistic about it's presentation. If the Q701 was plastic. The DT990 pro is metallic and boomy.

I'm exaggerating a bit, but yes. You shouldn't dismiss headphones based off a few people's opinions.


----------



## korky

ok great thanks for clearing that up and yeah usually i hate doing that but unfortunately other peoples opinions is all i have to go off since i cant properly test them out. i guess ill just suck it up and order myself a pair of q701 before they are all gone, since they have been discontinued!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





korky said:


> I guess ill just suck it up and order myself a pair of q701 before they are all gone, since *they have been discontinued!*


 
   
  Wut?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It seems the Quincys were limited time only. A year?


----------



## AxelCloris

Wow, if they are a limited time only item I'm really glad I snagged mine when I did.


----------



## chicolom

They haven't been out long enough to be discontinued.  Headroom's only had them in stock for a year or so.  Until I see a source saying they are, I will assume they're not discontinued.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Ahhh I can't get a HD558 for a good price >.<
  I need a headphone to accommodate my creative sound blaster recon 3d
  Any deals on the 558 (other than dakmart, who never has them in stock) or another 555-sounding headphone with a little extra bass?


----------



## Eric_C

Guys do not scare me into ordering a Q701. I really don't need one but I will order one if it's discontinued (you terrible influences on my wallet).


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> korky: Just based on how much info you said is available, I would rule out the HFI 2400. No data = no go.
> 
> Based on discussion in this thread for the 990, 598 and Q701:
> - 598 should be ruled out, it doesn't get described as a top choice for gaming. Or for bass.
> ...


 

 That odd I don't have issues with telling where people are at a 6 O.clock angle. And I been gaming with DT880 pro 250's for some time now. But Then I am not using the generic op-amps that where originally on my STX, I replaced those as well as not using the original op-amp that was in my Matrix M-Stage.  I play a lot of FPS games too. Tho I don't use Dolby headphone since I running the card Thur to my External Amp by RCA. Tho my config being different then your's and those could be why I don't have that issue, unless the DT880 pro 250 doesn't have that issue like the normal DT880s that you mention.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's just it. You have the Pros. For some strange reason, the Pro Beyers have better positional cues than the Premiums. The DT990 Pro was noticably superior at picking up sound cues than the Premium DT990. Same with the DT770 Pros being better than the Premiums.

This is why I've always wanted to try the 880 Pros. The Premium DT880s are quite bad att directional cues.

I'm not recommending the 880 Pros, because I haven't heard them.


----------



## Eric_C

Maybe that (^ what MLE said) and you (genclaymore) hook it up to something _other than a MixAmp or Dolby Headphone device_. 
  When you change the variables, a change in results is perfectly reasonable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I missed that part of his post. Why get something like the STX if you're not gonna use Dolby Headphone? And yes, like I've mentioned countless times on this thread, my opinions are based on how all the headphones perform with Dolby Headphone, and only that. I wouldn't play in stereo EVER, unless it was the only option.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm really curious what MLE would say about Ultrasone Pro 2900. Unfortunately I'm not in the US else I could have sent mine for testing. I really like them because of 
   
  a) excellent positioning without holes
  b) great atmospheric, 3D soundstage
  c) great bass extension, texture without (most important imho) bleeding into other frequencies and oversounding important details
  AH-D2000 for instance did that, DT 990 Premium as well. 
   
  PC360 is no match, I still use it though from time to time since my modmic hasn't arrived yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, back before I got the HE-4, it was a toss up between the HE-4 and Pro 2900. The HE-4 won out because I wanted to try an ortho.

The Pro 2900 was also a bit too costly for a headphone almost no one on head-fi heard at the time.

I'm pretty sure I'd love them though.


----------



## calpis

I've used my HFi2200 (which is nearly identical to the 2400 except for maybe thicker pads) for gaming for a year, mostly with MW2, and really enjoyed them. Sound whoring was a bit hard because they had a touch too much bass for picking out footsteps. It's been a year now since I've upgraded to the Pro2900 which has much cleaner and controlled bass that doesn't bleed. Every aspect of the Pro2900 outclasses the HFi2200 but that still doesn't mean that the 2200/2400 is horrible with DH. Just about every open Ultrasone works extremely well with DH, from their low end HFi15g to the Pro2900. Depending on my mood I can use my 15g, hs15 (this is the 15g with a boom mic), or Pro2900, the HFi2200 is being loaned to a friend.
   
  The one thing that still irks me is that I haven't been able to find any sort of comparison between the Pro2900 and the Q701. Whether it be gaming or music, there's absolutely nothing in the ether. I really consider the Q701 as a gorgeous headphone and would buy it if I had the spare cash lying around but if there's no gain besides it's beauty then there's no point to me. I should just man the ef up and donate my 2900 for testing.


----------



## Salamiii

ok guys i got a question,  What i am thinking﻿ of doing is plugging my headphones (Q701) straight into my amp(FIIO E11) and then into my sound card (Asus Xonar DX). Can you see any problems with this? Will i be able﻿ to get dolby surround from my sound card? Thanks!


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I missed that part of his post. Why get something like the STX if you're not gonna use Dolby Headphone? And yes, like I've mentioned countless times on this thread, my opinions are based on how all the headphones perform with Dolby Headphone, and only that. I wouldn't play in stereo EVER, unless it was the only option.


 
  Simple Dolby headphone is not the only reason to ever consider getting a STX for one of the reasons why people do get a STX is because of its in-graded headphone amp. Using the RCA outputs on the STX  works great as a Source for External Amp's as the RCA output on the STX is better then it's headphone amp output. The reason why I mention I don't use Dolby headphone is because it isn't a option when using the RCA jacks.It's not like the X-Fi HD PCi-E which let you used CMSS3D Headphone Thu It's RCA outputs while using Headphone mode on the same plugs.I have no problems with positional audio with the setup. 
   
  Sure I could plug my Matrix M stage into the headphone output, but then that would be double amp-ping as you would have to enable low gain to make it work with with the external Amp. I know how Dolby headphone sounds as I usually like to use Ref 1 without all the Echo and Re-verb's. Back when I had a AKG 702 with the STX and was using it's HP amp outputs then.
   
  The Reason why i not plugging the DT880 directly into the STX is that I use ASIO and Wasapi which bypasses the volume control, so I also use my External amp as a volume,As i use both for bit match playback. But I also like having both  I/V and Buffer op-amps on the STX in the line then just the I/V as I can tailor the sound signature better with all 3 op-amps sockets on the STX then with just the Two I/V's. I have a op-amp config going on the sound card so I wouldn't like it with just the I/V socket changed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





salamiii said:


> ok guys i got a question,  What i am thinking﻿ of doing is plugging my headphones (Q701) straight into my amp(FIIO E11) and then into my sound card (Asus Xonar DX). Can you see any problems with this? Will i be able﻿ to get dolby surround from my sound card? Thanks!


 
  I think the Xonar DX used with a Fiio E11 is a great combo.
  Should be able to use Dolby Virtual Headphone (7.1).


----------



## Danconia

First post here and basically joined to thank Mad Lust Envy for this guide!  It was beyond useful in my search for the best headphone for my gaming and general use.  I am sure you have single-handedly sold thousand of headphones from this guide being passed around on tech forums.   Started with some Trittons and Astro A40s before finding this guide.   Hastedly sold my A40 headset, kept the MIxamp 5.8 and tried out some AD700s, 558s, 598s and DT990 Pros.   But the Q701s are for me for sure!   Newbie here regarding sound but  I can sat they have the airy sound (huge soundstage?) of the AD700 without the grating treble and more bass which was exactly what I was looking for.   Plus I find them much more comfortable.  Perfect with my mixamp.   Thank you Mad Lust Envy.
   
  Question:  Currently running unamped with them and my virgin ears still think they sound better than all the other cans I tried.....well at least for gaming and a quick test through my macbook with some downtempo.   How much more will I gain from these with an amp for my purposes?


----------



## Salamiii

Thankyou so much! looks like i will be getting that then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the next headphone I'm adding is the KSC35. Don't expect much of a difference from the KSC75, other than the score being reversed. You trade off just a smidge of clarity for more bass and warmer tone. Comfort is also the biggest drawback.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the next headphone I'm adding is the KSC35. Don't expect much of a difference from the KSC75, other than the score being reversed. You trade off just a smidge of clarity for more bass and warmer tone. Comfort is also the biggest drawback.


 
   
  I think they sound extremely similar, but I'm also using some KSC75 clips on my KSC35.  I bet if you use they stock clips they push up harder against your ears and sound slightly warmer a la portapros.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to put that on the KSC35 impressions, lol. If you use the KSC75 clips, they really sound 95% the same, just a hint warmer. The plastic clips really does make the biggest difference. As you said, it brings the drivers closer to your ears, increasing the bass.

I must say that I prefer the sound of them with the plastic clips. I haven't used the 75s in ages, though as you may remember, its because I ruined the stock shape of the rubber clips.

I'm considering buying another pair of 75s, just because there are times when I'm home when I'm watching shows/movies laying down, and none of my cans are comfy like that, other than the 75s. The KSC35's can get torturous after an hour.

They stay in my car though. Those are my 'work' headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

*First post edit!

6/2/2012:

Added the KSC35
Adjusted the KSC75 scores
Added a comfort score and extra info about comfort for almost all headphones.*

I think I'm gonna spend the next few days with both the KSC35 and KSC75, and see just how they stack up for gaming. While I do absolutely love the KSC75, I think I may have been a bit generous with the scores. I'll probably have to adjust it to a 7/7. 8 seems a bit high to me now that I think about it at this point. I am a person who unlike most of what I see today, don't believe in that everything should be relegated to just 8's and 9s. 6 should be seen as decent, and 7 as good. 8 as great, 9 as magnificent, and 10... well obvious, borderline perfect.

I haven't touched Black Ops in a long while, so I'm gonna have to get used to it, and its not exactly the best game to test for headphone accuracy, but it does have its moments. 

My problem is that I haven't played games that have done anything good in terms of positional audio lately. Mass Effect 3, but not sure I wanna go through it again for the same of testing.

I wish I still had CoD4 or MW2. Ah well. Irony being that both these games don't even USE a center channel, lol.

edit: Just did a quick A/B with the KSC35 and 75 on a certain track I like to use. Man... they really do sound similar, with that slight tonal difference, but the KSC35 really IS better. Either way, they both put a smile on my face. Too bad the KSC35 is currently overpriced ($45!). They certainly don't sound 3x better than the KSC75 ($15), but I feel the improvement in SQ is worthwhile. Yes, I really DO need another KSC75. These clips... they don't feel right at all. I'm sorry baby! 

What the KSC35 does better is definitely the fuller sound, and richer vocals. The KSC75 sounds thin and harsh next to the KSC35. The treble on the KSC35 sounds natural, where the KSC75 sounds metallic (voices also sound a bit veiled on the 75 IN COMPARISON).

If the KSC35 was brought back outside of the Koss website, and the price was along $20-25, I'd recommend EVERYONE who doesn't wear glasses to get one.

I'm also curious as to what the HE500 sounds like, as I get the feeling it's similar in tonal balance to the KSC35.

Man, seriously, the KSC35 sounds awesome off the NFB5. XD

I can't believe I didn't run them through my gaming tests and put them up on this page yet.

Lol, it's a weird feeling going from the KSC35 to the D7000. The presentation of the sound is so different! Let's just say, it's not fair to the clip-ons. I'll not be doing that again. XD






> *KSC35*
> 
> Okay, the more mature Koss clip-on that was discontinued and then brought back (only on the Koss website), for a pretty hefty $45. I'd say it's hefty because it honestly should cost just slightly above the KSC75 range, not 3x as much. They sound very similar to the KSC75. However, they are fuller sounding, with fuller bass approaching full-sized type bass, and the mids/vocals are very rich and forward. Treble is also quite neutral for me, not being too smooth, and not too sparkly. I actually am quite fond of their treble. The KSC75's treble is harsher, grainier, and more fatiguing. The mids on the KSC75 are slightly laid back, while the KSC35 presents them up front and more fleshed out. In all honesty, you can say the difference between the KSC75 and KSC35 is like the difference between the K701 and Q701. One is brighter, drier, and thinner sounding, while the other is more natural, and fleshed out.
> 
> ...


----------



## -shu

Finally getting my new computer Wednesday, with the STX...it took Cyberpower about 3 weeks to build it! It's going to be awesome gaming in 1440p resolution at high settings with the HD 7970, and of course STX + Q701. Some things you can only achieve with a proper rig  I'll post my impressions soon.
   
  MLE, pretty awesome that you like Seven Lions. I absolutely love the Cosmic Love remix.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell yeah. The song of the day for me: Isis. That track is just so raw. Seven Lions is BOSS.


----------



## harryyeo

Anyone tried Fischer Audio's FA-011 for gaming?
   
  Currently am going to add a sound card to my PC setup but still deciding between STX or the Phoebus (A 40 dollars difference).
   
  And also choosing which headphones to use, I've heard some good things about FA-011 but I am not very sure if it'll be similar or better than Q701 or DT990 Premium.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> Anyone tried Fischer Audio's FA-011 for gaming?
> Currently am going to add a sound card to my PC setup but still deciding between STX or the Phoebus (A 40 dollars difference).
> And also choosing which headphones to use, I've heard some good things about FA-011 but I am not very sure if it'll be similar or better than Q701 or DT990 Premium.


 
  Last time i checked there was a $62 difference between the Phoebus ($225) and the STX ($163).
  So far I can't find any important differences between the Phoebus and the STX, at least ones that really count.
  The Phoebus control panel is designed to work more like Creative's
  And driver or Dolby improvements should also come out for the Xonar cards.
  The Phoebus does have analog speaker 7.1.
  I would guess the Phoebus would be dropping some in price between now and Christmas.
  I would say go for the FA-011.


----------



## ZK85

Ok so* *PC 360 or DT 770 pro 80? I am not talking about how good it is for competitive play that is secondary for me, but about how well it sets the world around you, how much more realistic the world feels surrounding you...for games like skyrim or mass effect, I like RPG and simulation games (as well as an MMORPG every now and then) and love it when i feel the real world has just melted and i am there in the games world with every sound just engulfing me and surrounding me as it would in real life, even if it is a bit better sounding than real life lol. 
   
If there is something else you guys would recommend above these two please let me know, i cant go higher than 280 USD and i dont like to buy used headphones  
   
oh and them being open or closed dont matter much for me  I have been trying to buy a new headphone for like three months now but cuz we dont have any local dealers in my country and i have to have them shipped in from the states i cant just go ahead and try any of them in a local shop... making it that much more difficult to make up my mind lol


----------



## harryyeo

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Last time i checked there was a $62 difference between the Phoebus ($225) and the STX ($163).
> So far I can't find any important differences between the Phoebus and the STX, at least ones that really count.
> The Phoebus control panel is designed to work more like Creative's
> And driver or Dolby improvements should also come out for the Xonar cards.
> ...


 
   
  $40 dollars difference in my country. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  Thanks for the advice.
  Now to decide whether to wait for the price cut, or just go for it.
  Thanks for the FA-011 recommendation too.
  Guess I gonna be ordering it from Noisy Motel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My friend brought MW2 over yesterday to let me borrow it for awhile for some headphone testing. I didn't realize I never touched MW2 with my 360 account. I think I played it with my ex's back when the game was new. Did all my gaming with the KSC35...with the exception of the last game being with the Q701.



Needless to say, I was getting called cheater from the first game I played.

Not that the KSC35 is special, but it certainly did it's job.

Lol, scores like that you'll never see me having on MW3. I can say with great pride, that I absolutely SUCK at that game. I can win at any CoD pre-MW3, but MW3 just laughs in my face at how utterly terrible it makes me feel.

Just wanna stress how different clip-ons sound when compared to full size. Even with DH, the KSC35 took getting used to. A few games in though, and I was just fine.


----------



## l00l

I got my DT 990 pro a couple of months ago and really love the sort of cinematic feeling you get in games and movies. Downside however is music for me, since the highs sound a bit unnatural and scratchy. That´s why I really wanna get the Sennheiser HD 598 one day (again).
   
  For now I am looking into ordering an Astro Mixamp Pro. I will connect my Xbox 360 via optical and my Blu ray player via coaxial to the Mixamp. Do the Mixamp Pro and the DT 990 pro go well together? Is there anything I have to keep in mind or can I just order the thing? 
  Was getin a Yamaha 471 (cause of Silent Cinema) but since it won´t go down in price and is a bit overpowered for me right now I think I will just go with the mixamp pro. That should do it.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

>.< So I don't think I'm getting HD558s, I like the look of the HD518s though. Haven't ever heard much about them, they seem to be the headphones for me. I'm looking towards as much fun as competition and the 518s seem to be on a bit of the bassy side. Mabye this will be a new super-all-in-one headphone?


----------



## Mawnee

Thank you Mad Must Envy for this review. I have been reading and rereading this thread while I research and debate what headset to get. Other reviews I've read seem to agree with your assesments. In the end I did purchase the PC360s. I joined the forums to purchase the astro mixamp from a member.

I am very happy with the setup. I use it for both my PC and my ps3. BF3 still has me going "wow". I can not only hear my hidden enemies from any direction, but now I can tell what type of weapon the have when they reload. I almost feel like I could play with my eyes closed because the sound is so vivid and precise.

Thanks again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

l00l said:


> I got my DT 990 pro a couple of months ago and really love the sort of cinematic feeling you get in games and movies. Downside however is music for me, since the highs sound a bit unnatural and scratchy. That´s why I really wanna get the Sennheiser HD 598 one day (again).
> 
> For now I am looking into ordering an Astro Mixamp Pro. I will connect my Xbox 360 via optical and my Blu ray player via coaxial to the Mixamp. Do the Mixamp Pro and the DT 990 pro go well together? Is there anything I have to keep in mind or can I just order the thing?
> Was getin a Yamaha 471 (cause of Silent Cinema) but since it won´t go down in price and is a bit overpowered for me right now I think I will just go with the mixamp pro. That should do it.




The DT990 Pro works like a charm with the Mixamp. However, it will be underpowered when using voice chat, so you will want extra amping if you plan on attaching a mic.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I got my DT 990 pro a couple of months ago and really love the sort of cinematic feeling you get in games and movies. Downside however is music for me, since the highs sound a bit unnatural and scratchy. That´s why I really wanna get the Sennheiser HD 598 one day (again).
> 
> For now I am looking into ordering an Astro Mixamp Pro. I will connect my Xbox 360 via optical and my Blu ray player via coaxial to the Mixamp. Do the Mixamp Pro and the DT 990 pro go well together? Is there anything I have to keep in mind or can I just order the thing?
> Was getin a Yamaha 471 (cause of Silent Cinema) but since it won´t go down in price and is a bit overpowered for me right now I think I will just go with the mixamp pro. That should do it.


 
  Get a used Yamaha receiver off Craigslist or eBay,
  The Yamaha receiver should provide more power for the DT990 then the Mix-Amp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> >.< So I don't think I'm getting HD558s, I like the look of the HD518s though. Haven't ever heard much about them, they seem to be the headphones for me. I'm looking towards as much fun as competition and the 518s seem to be on a bit of the bassy side. Mabye this will be a new super-all-in-one headphone?


 
   
  The Headroom graphs show it having a bit more bass than the HD598.  I read a review on amazon that said it leaked less and had more bass, but a less open soundstage.  Makes sense, since less open headphones usually trade soundstage for more bass.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 Pro works like a charm with the Mixamp. However, it will be underpowered when using voice chat, so you will want extra amping if you plan on attaching a mic.


 
   
  Since I don´t want to chat that´s not gonna be an issue. Besides: I use the 990 pro with the Fiio E6 right now and even that is enough power for my taste. The main reason I wanna get the Mixamp is for the dolby headphone feature.
   
  As for the Yamaha, it´s not an issue about money, it´s more that I don´t feel like I would really put the Yamaha 471 to good use if I only plug my headphones in and don´t get any speakers for it. I might get some speakers later on, but for now it´s not really a priority and I´d rather get a second pair of headphones instead (HD 598 most likely).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HMM, INTERESTING!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/astro-gamings-a50-wireless-headset-the-a40-and-mixamp-5-8-beco/

Looks like this is may be why the 5.8 isn't being sold alone anymore... Astro is really wanting everyone to use THEIR headsets.


----------



## JdmKicks94

I'm lookin to buy some ad700's for gaming on my pc, and I was wondering what the best sound card for them. I've heard that the titanium hd is the best, but I don't know if that is overkill or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700 is very easy to drive and it's a monster with Dolby Headphone. Maybe one of the Asus cards? Doesn't need to be the STX, as the AD700 doesn't need a strong amp at all.


----------



## JdmKicks94

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The AD700 is very easy to drive and it's a monster with Dolby Headphone. Maybe one of the Asus cards? Doesn't need to be the STX, as the AD700 doesn't need a strong amp at all.


 
  could you reccomend me one? I will be playing both games and music. Thanks in advance


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not a PC gamer, so I wouldn't know, but I think the cheapest ones with Dolby Headphone would be fine. Perhaps the Asus Xonar DG? 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio

Nameless would be a big help to you. He would know.


----------



## JdmKicks94

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not a PC gamer, so I wouldn't know, but I think the cheapest ones with Dolby Headphone would be fine. Perhaps the Asus Xonar DG?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio
> Nameless would be a big help to you. He would know.




Ok thank you, I will probably buy the xonar dg.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Anyone have the Q701s and the Mixamp 5.8? I am getting the Q701s, but I wonder if the bass boost from the mixamp can turn the Q701 into a more fun headphone.


----------



## l00l

Does the Astro Mixamp Pro come with an optical and/or coaxial cable?? thanks


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Does the Astro Mixamp Pro come with an optical and/or coaxial cable?? thanks


 
   
  Comes with both.  It comes with all the cables you need for your set up to the consoles.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Comes with both.  It comes with all the cables you need for your set up to the consoles.


 
  You sure about that? Cause on their website it says: "3M Optical TOSLink, 12' USB-USB Mini, 6' Xbox Live Chat Cable, 6' 3.5mm Audio Cable, PC Headset Y-Adapter, Daisy Chain Connector"
  Which one would be the coaxial there? Need it for my blu ray player to plug into the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pceluvnslomo said:


> Anyone have the Q701s and the Mixamp 5.8? I am getting the Q701s, but I wonder if the bass boost from the mixamp can turn the Q701 into a more fun headphone.




Chicolom and I both have that combo.

The bass boost is SO worth it with the Q701. Any complaints about the Q701 bass goes out the window. The Q701 is capable of putting out some really good bass, but their stock signature wouldn't allow for it. With the 5.8, it brings in a healthy amount of bass, and if you happen to own the combo, there isn't a need for a 'bassy' alternative for gaming, because the Q701 and 5.8 will be all you need.

The 5.8's bass expander isn't perfect though, and may distort at times when bass is very prominent in a game *(and I tested it with the Q701 today, it does distort quite a bit)*.

I do distinctly remember loving my old K701 with the E5 and E7's bass boosts, just proving that they are one of the few that can deal with bass boosting without sounding like a muddy mess.

It seems that I may have to do more testing and edit the Q701 listing with some info about its performance with the 5.8's bass boost.

Chico, if you have time, please also give me your impressions on it. I do know you're happy with its stock bass, so it might be too much? For me the stock Q701 bass is hit or miss. 




[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNAECVK7odc[/VIDEO]

It was obvious when I was in the multiplayer menu on Castlevania HD. The D7000 and KSC35 both bring out the low bass on that song, which the Q701 almost lets pass by with absolutely no feeling. With the 5.8's bass boost, it obviously is a boost for lower bass than mid bass, so the song was more what I remember it to sound/feel like. Edit: Although listening to this on my NFB-5, even with the D7000 it doesn't have much bass. I guess Dolby Headphone really does favor the low end.

What's impressive about the 5.8's bass is that its not an exaggerated boost. Its a subtle boost, but its a huge improvement for neutral-ish headphones like the Q701 and PC360, and doesn't mask details with those headphones. It did distort with some frequency with the PC360 though. I'm really gonna put the Q701 to the test in the coming days, and I will let you guys know how it fares.

I know not many of you own the 5.8, so it will just be for those who do. Can't guarantee how it will perform with other bass boosting devices. Again, I'm not one to use bass boosting on any headphone, but for the purpose of gaming, the Q701 and K701 did benefit for non-competitive gaming.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, my bad. It doesn't come with the coax now that I just checked.  The coax cable was a straggler that dropped in the box that I ordered from Monoprice.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> HMM, INTERESTING!
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/05/astro-gamings-a50-wireless-headset-the-a40-and-mixamp-5-8-beco/
> Looks like this is may be why the 5.8 isn't being sold alone anymore... Astro is really wanting everyone to use THEIR headsets.


 
   
  Interesting.  Calling it the "A50" made me think it would be a _new _headset, as in new design and new drivers.  Unfortunately that's not the case.  They should really replace the A40 design with something better sounding and more durable.  I have had two pairs of A40s, and I'm not a fan of their build quality.  Eventually the mic stopped working on my first pair (outside of warranty) and I just sold it on ebay as just a pair of stereo headphones.  I quickly sold the 2nd pair too, as it was starting to break as well.
   
  I doubt the A50 will be completely wireless, unless Astro has payed microsoft $ to bypass using the controller chat cable and doing chat wirelessly. 
   
  I don't mind that Astro is trying to combine their wireless mixamp with their A40 headset.  I DO mind that they've removed the option to buy the stand-alone wireless mixamp.  Their mixamp is still their best product, 
   
   
  I'm not all that excited about gaming headsets anymore, since I don't see them catching up to headphones in audio quality.  Astro and the like aren't concerned with matching or beating AKG's, Sennheisers, or Beyerdynamics.  They're just concerned with beating the other guys (Turtle Beach, Tritton). 
   
  Gaming headsets are more about convenience.  I think the audience which is content with just shopping for "gaming headsets" is a little different than the audience that actually goes and does research as to what else is out there (that audience usually winds up on forums like head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  Anyways, some of us would gladly trade the inconvenience of an extra wire or two for a better audio experience. 
   
  I'm much more interested in companies making things to accommodate those of us take the latter route, using quality headphones.  For example, products like the antlion modmic.
  At least Daekwan is excited for it Astro headsets!  (since the Warheads are basically vaporware).  Nice to see akaTrent writing that stuff for engadget


----------



## Eric_C

The A50's going to sell for US$300? How's that compete with Razer's US$200 headset:
http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.225974700


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico: yeah, Trent got them covered. Someone who knows their stuff. That's what I like about Engadget. It's techies who know their stuff, unlike a lot of other websites. 

As for headsets, I'm with you. The PC360 is the last headset I'll ever buy. Inconvenience aside, audiophile headphones + external mic is definitely the way to go, if you're gonna pony up so much cash.

Daekwan has been an Astro fanboy since the beginning of time. Seems to be the only one on AVS who defends the A40. It may have been him that pushed me to get the A40s in the first place all those years ago. Lol. Hopefully the A50 won't disappoint him. 

It IS really messed up that Astro named this the A50. It's just a retrofitted A40. :rolleyes:

And here I thought the number was to identify driver size. They should've called it the A40v3 pr something.


----------



## NamelessPFG

What I want to see, for once, is a "gaming" headset that's actually considered to have great sound quality for the price. Even better if it happens to be orthodynamic (unlikely) or electrostatic (who am I kidding, these things need special amps!).
   
  But that day will likely never arrive...not that I'll need it as long as I have a working Stax SR-Lambda.
   
  Meanwhile, I'm now getting divided between something like the ModMic, or an even higher-end desk mic, like, say, the popular Blue Microphones Yeti. (Obviously talking PC use here, since I have no need for a headset on my consoles and can get away with a USB desk mic.) The important thing is that it's sensitive and lets my voice through loud and clear.
   
  My current desk mic works, but it is on the insensitive side without any mic gain...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I spoke too soon.

I just played the demo to Bang Bang Racing on the PS3. Fun little game. The Q701 could NOT handle the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost without distorting a HELLUVA lot during the finish line sound effects and other areas in the game. I replayed it without bass boost, and there was no problems. So yeah, just like with the PC360, the Mixamp's bass boost button with the Q701 is iffy.

edit: just played the first full level of Hard Corps Uprising, and the Q701 sounded just fine with the bass boost on.

:rolleyes:


----------



## Rebel975

I think it's the mixamp that can't handle the bass. I've heard some bass distortion at times between three different headphones that I've used. (TB HPX/Ultrasone PRO 2900/HE-500)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I definitely know it's the Mixamp. I was just hoping a better headphone would make it distort less, but sadly, that just isn't the case.

in any case, it really does depend on the game. Zombie Apocalypse and Virtua Fighter 5 are both fine so far.


----------



## maverickronin

I'd imagine you just need to an amp in between to fix since the bass boost is probably just pushing the Mixamp's amp section into clipping on a more difficult load like the Q701.


----------



## Naingolann

I get the very same distortion with the bass boost of the DSS, which is linked to an E9. So no, double amping doesn't fix anything apparently. Fortunately I've only heard those in Batman AC, whenever Batman punches the goons, but that's it.
   
  Besides, I just need to lower it completely (or very close to) and everything sounds just fine again.


----------



## chicolom

I think it distorts regardless of headphones, but it also depends on the game.   I'm guessing it pushes the signal itself above clipping level.  At that point adding another amp wouldn't fix anything, as the signal itself is clipping. 
   
  I think the mixamp's bass boost is electronic EQ that gets switched ON/OFF, while the DSS has an analog potentiometer that dials it in.  There is no ON/OFF bass switch for the DSS, just the wheel.  Does that mean the DSS bass boost is always applied, but it's just turned down if you have the dial down?
   
  The Mixamp 5.8 boosts more lower mids,  while the DSS doesn't affect the lower mids as much.  It might be some kind of placebo, but it seemed like the DSS with the bass wheel at minimum had less bass than the Mixamp 5.8 with it's bass boost turned off.
   
  The DSS definitely has more bass slam more when you crank it all the way, but it's more isolated, whereas the mixmap is more of a spread out boom.
   
  The DSS does distort less (even when you crank it up all the way) but I'm not sure why


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> I'd imagine you just need to an amp in between to fix since the bass boost is probably just pushing the Mixamp's amp section into clipping on a more difficult load like the Q701.




I would have agreed with you had the amp not distorted even with the easy to drive cans like the PC360. But like others mentioned, it's definitely an amp issue with the bass boost, and not how well it drives headphones.

The Mixamp behaves perfectly fine when bass boost is turned off. It has not ever clipped with the Q701. It has however clipped with the 600ohm DT990 (infrequently).


----------



## maverickronin

Hmm...
   
  That's pretty odd.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I would have agreed with you had the amp not distorted even with the easy to drive cans like the PC360. But like others mentioned, it's definitely an amp issue with the bass boost, and not how well it drives headphones.
> The Mixamp behaves perfectly fine when bass boost is turned off. It has not ever clipped with the Q701. It has however clipped with the 600ohm DT990 (infrequently).


 
  The PC360 is still a low ohm can, if it's running out of power there it's going to do the same with most any can about the same impedance.  
   
  The 990's clipped?  This is with the wireless one, right?  Can't help but imagine that batteries' voltage might be drooping or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990s clipped on both the wired and wireless Mixamps when playing Black Ops. During some intense explosions, the audio might cut off or clip sporadically. It only happened a few times though. Its not like when the Mixamp clips quite a bit when bass boost is on.


----------



## l00l

Does the dolby headphone feature of the Mixamp Pro work over coax as well? Or only optical?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The coax input on the wired Mixamp performs exactly the same as the optical, so if you do have a device that has a coaxial out, no worries. The Mixamp will perform to its fullest potential through it.

In fact, I used the coaxial input as my second console input. I bought a $10 optical to coaxial adapter from monoprice, so I could hook up my 360/ps3 at the same time. A lot more reliable than an optical switcher/splitter.

FYI: if you have a device on the optical and coaxial inputs, and both are on, the Mixamp will output sound from the optical, not coaxial, until the optical's source is turned off.

Optical
Coaxial
RCA

That's the priority the Mixamp outputs sound, so make sure the other devices are off.


----------



## l00l

Thank you. Yes, my blu ray player got coax out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I edited my last post with more info, just fyi.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I edited my last post with more info, just fyi.


 
   
   
  You?  Editing one of your posts after you've already posted it!?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Impossible...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, I know right? That NEVER happens, on all my posts, multiple times, even hours later because I'm not OCD about fixing posts at all. Nope.




BTW, if any of you own an PS3, do yourself a favor and download the Bang bang Racing demo, if only because that game has REALLY awesome audio. It's odd as it's a sort of top down racer, but it has positional cues, which seem relative to where the sounds are around your car. hard to get used to, but still, stellar sound placement.


----------



## l00l

One last question: Will the mixamp pro also be benifical if I connect it to my macbook? Obviously it got no toslink or coax output, only stereo or USB. What´s the best connection there? Besides an external soundcard I guess.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired Mixamp does have a USB DAC (it was made with voice chat in mind, but I heard it does work as a standard stereo DAC), so it doesn't hurt to try. Not sure if it will be better than the onboard DAC, and the Mixamp's amp section isn't completely noise free, though the wired Mixamp is relatively quiet.


----------



## Bi0HaZard

I want to get a pair of headphones for a mix of gaming and music. I have AD700's, but I'm looking for something more music-oriented. I can live with a hit to the soundstage.
   
  I've looked at these:
   
  AKG K601
  AKG K701/K702
  AKG Q701
  beyerdynamic DT880 Premium
  Sennheiser HD600/HD650
   
  I intend to run them off my Auzen Forte which does have an internal amp, but it is supposedly not amazing (probably similar to the STX or the Titanium HD). Would I be correct in saying that the AKG's and the Sennheiser's will struggle without an expensive amp? In that case, which DT880 would be the best buy (in terms of impedance)? Is the 250 ohm version hard to drive?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





l00l said:


> One last question: Will the mixamp pro also be benifical if I connect it to my macbook? Obviously it got no toslink or coax output, only stereo or USB. What´s the best connection there? Besides an external soundcard I guess.


 
   
  Maybe this is only on the Macbook Pro, but they sometimes have a mini toslink plug combined into the 3.5mm headphone jack.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





bi0hazard said:


> I want to get a pair of headphones for a mix of gaming and music. I have AD700's, but I'm looking for something more music-oriented. I can live with a hit to the soundstage.
> 
> I've looked at these:
> 
> ...


 
  The headphone amplifier on the Forte is rated 16-Ohm to 600-Ohm.
  AKG K601  120-Ohm
  AKG K701/K702  62-Ohm
  AKG Q701  55-Ohm
  Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium 600-Ohm, 250-Ohm, 32-Ohm
  Sennheiser HD600/650 300-Ohm.
  The built in amp on the forte should do a decent job of driving the headphones listed.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> AKG Q701  55-Ohm


 
   
   
  The Q701 is 62 ohm as well.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The Q701 is 62 ohm as well.


 
  Oops.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also, just because an amp is rated to drive certain ohms, doesn't mean it does it well. 600ohm cans truly need powerful amps.

Biohazard, out of those listed, I think the DT880 is probably the best if you're aiming for music more than gaming. That's what I'd go with out of those choices.


----------



## IronSnake

Heads up for those on the fence buying Q701s, used ones like new going for sale by Amazon Warehouse for $176 and change.  Only 2 left.
Posted in the deals thread: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/ol/B004EQPE6G/ref=aw_d_ol?qid=1339124014&sr=1-624


----------



## Eric_C

So just _purely_ hypothetically: how good's the Beyer Tesla line for gaming?


----------



## Indread

So how does the AD700 compare to the modded HD555 / HD595 in terms of soundstage and imaging?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I might test a T90 next week and compare with Pro 2900 and HE-500.


----------



## xLeira

Hi, recently ordered JVC HA-RX700. Does this have a good sound stage? I read about them having good sound stage but still considered asking here since this is where the "Gamers" dwell.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/08/sony-playstation-pulse-wireless-stereo-headset-elite-edition-han/

akaTRENT's hands on at E3...





> Sony PlayStation Pulse Wireless Stereo Headset Elite Edition hands on
> 
> Aside from the PlayStation Move Racing Wheel and Wonderbook, Sony has one more accessory to show off at E3 -- the Pulse Wireless Stereo Headset Elite Edition. Naturally, we hunted down this peripheral aimed at all-things audio to check it out for ourselves. The PWSHEE is the company's second full-on PS3 headset to date, expanding on what it offered with its Wireless Stereo Headset from last year. As we're told, the headset is also ushering in a new Pulse moniker for its PlayStation oriented ear-blasters, although there's no word on what we can expect down the line. For now, this unit packs a lot on paper for its $150 price, touting key features like 7.1 virtual surround sound, PS Vita and cellphone compatibility (thanks to a detachable cable with inline remote / mic), BassImpact technology for massive low-end pulse (get it?), audio profiles, higher-fidelity drivers than the WSH and hidden noise-cancelling microphones for chatting. Does it have the potential to live up to its hype and one-up its $80 predecessor? Join us past the break for our initial impressions.
> Sony PlayStation Wireless Stereo Headset Pulse Edition
> ...










Looks like this one will bring a detachable 3.5mm cable, so in theory, we could use the headset wirelessly for the PS3 and use Sony's internal 7.1 virtual surround, or plug it into something like the Mixamp and use Dolby Headphone...

That would be a nice test for me.

You get a lot of headset for $150, so maybe, just maybe, it might warrant a try. Especially because this one isn't just PS3 use only (though the wireless ability and I assume the virtual surround is. Using the virtual surround through the 3.5mm input would just be upmixing stereo, which is never smart).

I must say, it looks sexy too. But again, PLEATHER. FUUUUUUUUUU---

Still, I wish I could contact Sony somehow and ask them to send me a pair to review. =D


----------



## obazavil

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, if any of you own an PS3, do yourself a favor and download the Bang bang Racing demo, if only because that game has REALLY awesome audio. It's odd as it's a sort of top down racer, but it has positional cues, which seem relative to where the sounds are around your car. hard to get used to, but still, stellar sound placement.


 
   
  Ok.. going to do it tonight


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I meant to say a really good sense of aural space. Sound placement is a bit hard to understand on that game due to the nature of camera placement not matching up with positional cues.

BTW, just to add again to the Q701 with Bass Boost on the Mixamp 5.8: I've been playing all the new PS Plus downloads, and they all worked 95% fine. Bang bang Racing was the only one to really distort the bass a lot. Infamous 2, Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One, Little Big Planet 2, Warhammer: Space Marine, Virtua Fighter 5 all played relatively well with bass boost on the Q701s.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/08/sony-playstation-pulse-wireless-stereo-headset-elite-edition-han/
> 
> 
> 
> > ...touting key features like 7.1 virtual surround sound, PS Vita and cellphone compatibility (thanks to a detachable cable with inline remote / mic)...


 
   
  MLE, correct me if I'm wrong, but 7.1 virtual surround sound is only supported on the PS3 console, but not on the PS Vita, right?  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the Vita is stereo only. However, I think the 7.1 function on the headset can be turned on regardless of source, so you may be able to get an upmixed stereo signal off the Vita. Not that you'd want to. All that would do is add reverb and echo for no reason, as the Vita is only outputting stereo.

This is the logical assumption, though I may be dead wrong, and perhaps the virtual surround function is on the dongle. Not sure yet.


----------



## Indread

Has anyone here tried the Sony MDR SA-1000 's? Similar price range to the AD700's. I wanted to know how the soundstage and imaging compares between the two.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the Vita is stereo only. However, I think the 7.1 function on the headset can be turned on regardless of source, so you may be able to get an upmixed stereo signal off the Vita. Not that you'd want to. All that would do is add reverb and echo for no reason, as the Vita is only outputting stereo.
> 
> This is the logical assumption, though I may be dead wrong, and perhaps the virtual surround function is on the dongle. Not sure yet.


 
   
  Thanks MLE.  I'm hoping they introduce virtual surround on the dongle so the Vita, even if Sony does it as exclusive function to push their headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Honestly, there's no reason the Vita shouldn't have a binaural surround mixing option for headphones built-in, no dongles necessary-just add any 3.5mm headphone. It's not like it's designed with 7.1 speakers in mind, so it doesn't have to limit itself to 7.1 max like Dolby Headphone does, instead giving us true 3D sound.
   
  Then again, I get the notion that a lot of the gaming industry doesn't even realize that headphones deliver effective surround with two drivers when the sounds are mixed just right.


----------



## IronSnake

Isn't it all digital files for the surround sound anyways?  I guess they are trying to save memory space by not including those audio files.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Honestly, there's no reason the Vita shouldn't have a binaural surround mixing option for headphones built-in, no dongles necessary-just add any 3.5mm headphone. It's not like it's designed with 7.1 speakers in mind, so it doesn't have to limit itself to 7.1 max like Dolby Headphone does, instead giving us true 3D sound.
> 
> Then again, I get the notion that a lot of the gaming industry doesn't even realize that headphones deliver effective surround with two drivers when the sounds are mixed just right.




Though I haven't bought it yet, Corpse Party for the PSP/Vita has Binaural Audio. That's the only game I've seen that openly markets binaural audio.

Virtual surround is 100% possible on any device capable of using headphones with. The problem is companies actually using things like Binaural audio.

It seems that audio is almost never a priority in games. Corpse Party is fairly simplistic, and instead relies on text and your imagination to get a feel for what's happening. The audio is incredibly important, which is why binaural was more than likely used.

Now that I think about it, binaural gaming is largely impossible. Why? Because binaural tech is mostly pre-scripted. Sound effects are placed around specialized microphones and recorded. In games, unless a game screen is static, or is in a scripted event, there's no way to record audio relative to your viewpoint/position in game at all times. That would mean that if for example you're playing an FPS, every single sound effect in the game that doesn't come from your 'character' would have to be recorded infinite times so that there is a sound effect properly placed at ALL times depending on how you move in the game.

I guess this is why binaural gaming is almost non-existent.

So a virtual space with generic sound placement is more logical, like Dolby Headphone. I just wish these gaming devices had it built in.

What do you think, Nameless? I'm speaking in terms of binaural audio as I've come to know it. I dunno about stuff like EAX and how that tech works.


----------



## chicolom

True binaural audio is recorded with specialized microphones, but I think they should be able to do _simulated_ binaural audio.  I thought that was what CMSS and whatever that Rapter audio (?) DSP already were (Rapter has good positioning but sounds a little funky and processed from what I've listened to).
   
  Of course, Dolby headphone is supposed to be emulation of 5 discrete speakers, but it sounds quite blended together to me.
   
  Doesn't all the tech come down to simulating HRTFs anyways?


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Another question,
If FPS gaming is not a priority, would the Beyerdynamic DT990 250 OHM be better for me than an AKG Q701? I might or might not play BLOPS 2 competitively, but if I do how would the DT990 compare to the hear-every-footstep soundstage of the Q701. Also the best gaming headset I've used is the AX720, so will the headphones be a big or little step up? More importantly, what headphone (bass boost included) would be best for a variety of games, from AC to Gears 3 to Elder Scrolls to COD and everything else?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Which DT990? The premium or pro? They're both 250ohm. The Pro is really, really bass heavy. The Premium should be a better all rounder if it sounds remotely close to the 600ohm version (which I assume it does).

And yes, I prefer the DT990 over the Q701 for all purposes other than competitive gaming, which the DT990 was still great at. Oh and TV shows, because the vocals are considerably more up front on the Q701 vs the DT990.


----------



## chicolom

Just make sure you can handle the treble


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> Another question,
> If FPS gaming is not a priority, would the Beyerdynamic DT990 250 OHM be better for me than an AKG Q701? I might or might not play BLOPS 2 competitively, but if I do how would the DT990 compare to the hear-every-footstep soundstage of the Q701. Also the best gaming headset I've used is the AX720, so will the headphones be a big or little step up? More importantly, what headphone (bass boost included) would be best for a variety of games, from AC to Gears 3 to Elder Scrolls to COD and everything else?


 
  Treble is a bit annoying with the 990 pro, that´s why I wanna get a Sennheiser 598 for music. 
  But when it comes to gaming and movies the 990 pro is just perfect. Bass is not too heavy. In fact, I can pick up footsteps pretty well in COD. Maybe there are other headphones that are just perfect for that, but it´s not like you can´t do that with the 990 pro. You can soundwhore and it works just fine.
   
  I had the AX720 as well and didn´t like it at all. So from what I think it would be a big step up, or at least it was for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AX720 is nowhere near on the same league as the DT990. They are however worth considering for newbies because they come paired up with a Dolby Headphone amp like the Mixamp, and aren't bad as a headset. You can buy the AX720 and keep the headset as a backup while using the box for better headphones.

The DT990 Pro's bass is very strong, but its not a smothering bass like say the DT770 Pro 80. Its just really strong. Aggressive is one way to put the DT990 Pros. They do soundwhore well enough, but the Premium is better for all purpose use, IMHO. The bass is strong but not Pro level aggressive.


----------



## l00l

Since I never tested the 990 premium myself I assume you are right. Question is however if you are willing to pay like $ 80 more compared to the pro. I certainly was not. 
   
  Can I also use my Fiio E6 with the mixamp pro, for the EQ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E6's bass boost will be a factor, though if you're using the DT990 Pro, I don't think you will want that....at all. The 990 Pro doesn't need more bass. The E17 is the only Fiio Amp with actual EQ qualities, like bass or treble reduction...

Due to a certain event, I've moved the E9 to the main setup temporarily to compare against the NFB5. I must say, the E9 really does pair up damn well with the Q701. It's been awhile, but yeah. The E9 is a hell of an amp for the Q701 for a measly $100.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E6's bass boost will be a factor, though if you're using the DT990 Pro, I don't think you will want that....at all. The 990 Pro doesn't need more bass. The E17 is the only Fiio Amp with actual EQ qualities, like bass or treble reduction...


 
  In fact I use the blue light on the E6 (that´s sort of the middle between bass heavy (red) and bass light (purple)) to get the treble down a bit. But I agree, the 990 pro don´t need more bass.
  So the E17 provides a full EQ function where I can reduce the treble? Would the 990 pro benefit from that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. The treble is the ONLY downside of the DT990's sound. Reduce it a bit, and the DT990 will be one HELL of a headphone. In the case of the Pros, I'd reduce both bass and treble.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Sorry  DT 990 Premium 250 ohm. I wonder how the box from the ax720s will drive it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If not using a mic, you should be good.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Absolutely. The treble is the ONLY downside of the DT990's sound. Reduce it a bit, and the DT990 will be one HELL of a headphone. In the case of the Pros, I'd reduce both bass and treble.


 
  And how do you do that? Fiio E17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't own one, but the E17 would be one such a device. But that's quite an expensive amp/dac just for the purpose of EQ-ing.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't own one, but the E17 would be one such a device. But that's quite an expensive amp/dac just for the purpose of EQ-ing.


 
  I wouldn´t use it only for that of course. But it brings me back to my inital question: Can I use the E6 together with the mixamp pro or does this mess up the processed sound the mixamp gives out?
   
  But since there isn´t really a big difference between the orignal sound and the sound the E6 gives out with the EQ on the blue light, I think I won´t actually need to EQ the sound that comes out of the mixamp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Though I haven't bought it yet, Corpse Party for the PSP/Vita has Binaural Audio. That's the only game I've seen that openly markets binaural audio.
> Virtual surround is 100% possible on any device capable of using headphones with. The problem is companies actually using things like Binaural audio.
> It seems that audio is almost never a priority in games. Corpse Party is fairly simplistic, and instead relies on text and your imagination to get a feel for what's happening. The audio is incredibly important, which is why binaural was more than likely used.
> Now that I think about it, binaural gaming is largely impossible. Why? Because binaural tech is mostly pre-scripted. Sound effects are placed around specialized microphones and recorded. In games, unless a game screen is static, or is in a scripted event, there's no way to record audio relative to your viewpoint/position in game at all times. That would mean that if for example you're playing an FPS, every single sound effect in the game that doesn't come from your 'character' would have to be recorded infinite times so that there is a sound effect properly placed at ALL times depending on how you move in the game.
> ...


 
   
  There's actually a game out there for gaming handhelds that touts binaural audio? I'm quite surprised.
   
  While binaural recordings require the whole dummy head thing (they're _recordings_, after all), when I talk about binaural surround filters in games, I mean ones that mix the sound with HRTFs in mind so it sounds very much like it was binaurally recorded. For this approach, you actually don't want to record sound effects with a dummy head.
   
  This is how technologies like CMSS-3D Headphone and Rapture3D's various headphone HRTF modes handle the 3D positional sound information they get from games (provided they use DirectSound3D or OpenAL); they know where the sounds are, so they apply the HRTF effect to them, and then it plays back like the sound was recorded in that position relative to a binaural dummy head with that particular HRTF. (Were the sound originally recorded with a dummy head, it would have been effectively processed twice!) Does that make sense?
   
  The way things currently work is that the game engine knows where each sound is positioned in 3D space, so it just has to have those sounds mixed properly before being output. The thing that set DirectSound3D and OpenAL apart for PC games is that they just passed the 3D positional sound data to the primary audio device and let its drivers decide how to mix those sounds; thus, while the game developers may not have necessarily designed their games with binaural audio in mind, it became possible to play them with binaural sound regardless if the sound device could mix them that way. Even back then in the late 1990s, they were being mixed binaurally/with HRTFs by default if you had an Aureal Vortex-based sound card. All the game developers had to do was use one of those 3D sound APIs, and the sound cards would take care of the rest.
   
  However, with software mixers like the one in FMOD Ex, it's already mixed in that part of the game engine before it hits the sound device, so the mixing options are pretty much limited to whatever the middleware version used in the game supports. Part of the problem is that the more popular ones like FMOD Ex still don't have a binaural mixing option, just mixing options for various speaker configurations. I'm guessing the game developers don't seem to notice or care, just so long as they can claim 5.1 speaker support and don't have to deal with Creative.
   
  If those middleware solutions were to support binaural mixing, though, then you wouldn't even need a sound card or an Astro Mixamp or anything like that to get surround sound out of headphones, and you wouldn't be limited to 7.1 speakers' worth of positioning, either. Just enable it in-game, and you'd be good to go. It would also work on all platforms, PC and console alike. How neat would that be?
   
  Oh, and as for EAX, that's just reverb/chorus/occlusion/etc. processing to make it sound like you're in the actual game environment. The actual 3D sound positioning is a function of how the DirectSound3D and OpenAL APIs work in general. However, a game that uses EAX needs one of those APIs to have access to the sound card DSP anyway, so it's a good indicator of whether or not the possibility to get true 3D sound even exists in a game.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

I will be using a standard XBOX mic around my neck with the DT990 on my head. I'll make it so that the voice comes out of the speaker channel, but hopefully I will be getting a mixamp soon.
  If I end up getting the DT990 Premiuum 600 ohm though would I need to add an amp along with the mixamp like an e6,e11, or e9?


----------



## marcelolacerda7

I'm looking for a closed headphone for competitive fps games. Seeking Him:
 - Best possible positioning.
 - The good soundstage.
 - Amplified by a creative titanium HD.
 - Really close because my pc is at my side and he does a lot of noise, gets in the way.
 - Rich in details (footsteps, carry guns, sounds like it has to be very clear.)
 - Use for Call of Duty series and CS series.

 I've been reading and saw the following options: I would like a deeper analysis of each one who has already tested, looking for the following high realized.

 AKG K550, phone however said to be the new K701 closed. Attracted me to this very fact.

 DT770 80, am afraid to get a dark sound, muffled by taking me serious detail and clarity.

 akg k272, be equal praise for the akg k271, but nothing concrete, just be a neutral phone.

 denon D2000, diversar opinions but nothing concrete.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D2000 doesn't isolate well, and being so close to your PC will be a factor. The DT770 Pro 80 does isolate extremely well, but as you said, they're not the clearest headphones.

I honestly don't know what to recommend as I'm not a fan of closed headphones for gaming.

You might wanna try looking for some Premium DT770s, but they've been discontinued...

As for the pcluv, the DT990 600ohm will absolutely need something like the E9, if you're using a mic. The others won't be enough, and the E9 has no EQ function.


----------



## marcelolacerda7

But how would the behavior of the D2000 for competitive play? No need absurdamentes closed headphones, I just want a greater concentration and isolation of the environment - noise PC - domestic noise.
 the 80 DT770 are really too dark and muffled to the point of disappearing with the clarity and detail in games like call of duty, for his review by positioning them and something very cool.
 What about akgs, as they are for competitive and akg k550 akg k272HD?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I'm saying. The D2000 doesn't isolate outside noises like a closed headphone. It leaks in outside noise like a semi open headphone.

I don't have much experience with closed headphones that isolate well other than the M50, DT770 Pro 80, and HD280 Pro. None which are perfect for you.

Perhaps the Fischer FA-003/Brainwavz HM5 sounds ideal on paper. I'd look them up.


----------



## marcelolacerda7

Mad, you recommended me the DT770 premium. Until they can, but in your analysis, you said the bass are very strong and his misguided way, this is true? as you also said it might have something wrong with them. Because premium, presumably they would have greater clarity, fast bass and sound smoother and less dark, right? I was confused about their review and indication for the details you look in the headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The pair I got was completely different from how they are normally reviewed. I think I got a dud. The 32 ohm DT770 isn't known to be strong in bass, so that may be the one to go for if you could find them.


----------



## Phos

If you have the means you might consider the Beyer t70.


----------



## illbleed

Maybe someone can tell me out picking a good headset with a mic,
  I currently own the a40 system (the a40s and mixamp), but i am not satisfied with the headset..
  they sound really nice and clear but i cant tell where sounds come from.
  Everyone suggests the siberia v2, but i havent seen anyone post about it here yet.
  I've seen some on sale so im thinking of getting a pair.
  i game on consoles, but also have a suround sound computer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What's your budget, illbleed? The only real competition as far as headsets go would be the PC360 and MMX300 and they are both worth a lot more than the Siberia V2. There are cheaper headsets, but they seriously won't compare to the A40s. Maybe the PC320? I haven't heard them, but they are supposedly a warmer sibling to the PC360.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What's your budget, illbleed? The only real competition as far as headsets go would be the PC360 and MMX300 and they are both worth a lot more than the Siberia V2. There are cheaper headsets, but they seriously won't compare to the A40s. Maybe the PC320? I haven't heard them, but they are supposedly a warmer sibling to the PC360.


 
  Well it really depends if i sell my a40s,maybe around a good 200.
  The thing about my a40 system is that i really enjoy the sound, but it has no 3d sound to it.
  Its possible mine are faulty, because people have mixed reviews on them and a lot claim they are accurate and have amazing "pinpoint" sound.
  I use to own a ax720 pair and i loved them, but they broke on me.
  I get better results distinguishing how far sounds are and if theyre behind me or in front, left, or right with a pair of x11s with my mixamp.
  Its really disappointing. Is this how theyre suppose to sound?
  I would love to try a pair of pc360.
  How can you compare the siberia v2s to the a40 headset? what is the difference.
  I read your long list of headphones but nothing on siberia v2s lol.
  I tried listening to virtual barbershop with just the a40 headset alone and it doesnt work with them.. just sounds like stereo.
  With a regular uprock skullcandy pair of headphones i can totally tell the distance and such apart.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, those A40s sound pretty bad by your description. If you can't get any binaural effects with those, something must truly be wrong, as those recordings should work with every headphone.

I haven't heard the Siberia V2, just the V1. The V2 is supposedly kind of bassy and warm, which isn't something I'd like out of a headset.

If your budget is around $200, you might be able to score some PC360s for under that. Amazon currently has them for $209. I think Razord Dog had them on sale with a coup for $189 for a long while, which is where I got them from. Been a long time though.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, those A40s sound pretty bad by your description. If you can't get any binaural effects with those, something must truly be wrong, as those recordings should work with every headphone.
> I haven't heard the Siberia V2, just the V1. The V2 is supposedly kind of bassy and warm, which isn't something I'd like out of a headset.
> If your budget is around $200, you might be able to score some PC360s for under that. Amazon currently has them for $209. I think Razord Dog had them on sale with a coup for $189 for a long while, which is where I got them from. Been a long time though.


 
  Maybe you can describe the a40s to me as you remember them?
  or if anyone else can help me figure this out.
  Im hoping its just my pair, my girlfriend bought them for me for my birthday in march, and it bothers me that she spent so much on me and they dont do as advertised..
  I will look into the pc360s.
  But mostly want to figure out the a40s problems.
  Some people do complain about the same thing.
  Its possible some of the headsets just dont work how they are suppose to.
  Do i have to burn them in?
  i got them in march of this year.
  thanks a lot for your help so far .


----------



## illbleed

also if you can link another audio clip/video clip that i can test them on just to be sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Try that Team Fortress 2 video on the first page. Just remember, don't turn on any virtual surround when watching those videos, as they are meant to be watched from a standard stereo output.

I had the 1st gen A40s, which sounded very hollow, and everything sounded like there was no weight. The treble was very harsh, bass was light (which doesn't bother me for a headset), and everything sounded a bit too echoey.

Whats coincidental is that you loved the Ax720... which pretty much falls with the same opinions I had on both. I preferred the Ax720 over the A40s, and thought they did a better job simulating surround vs the A40s which didn't do absolutely anything for me. So perhaps you are hearing what i did, though I didn't try those virtual surround tests back then, though I did play CoD4 multiplayer a lot, which is a great for demoing.

I wasn't kidding when I said I was very underwhelmed by the A40s. It wasn't until I got the Ad700 that my whole thought of the Mixamp and gaming with headphones truly clicked for me.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Try that Team Fortress 2 video on the first page. Just remember, don't turn on any virtual surround when watching those videos, as they are meant to be watched from a standard stereo output.
> I had the 1st gen A40s, which sounded very hollow, and everything sounded like there was no weight. The treble was very harsh, bass was light (which doesn't bother me for a headset), and everything sounded a bit too echoey.
> Whats coincidental is that you loved the Ax720... which pretty much falls with the same opinions I had on both. I preferred the Ax720 over the A40s, and thought they did a better job simulating surround vs the A40s which didn't do absolutely anything for me. So perhaps you are hearing what i did, though I didn't try those virtual surround tests back then, though I did play CoD4 multiplayer a lot, which is a great for demoing.
> I wasn't kidding when I said I was very underwhelmed by the A40s. It wasn't until I got the Ad700 that my whole thought of the Mixamp and gaming with headphones truly clicked for me.


 
  Okay, So i turned off my virtual surround sound on my computer..
  Do i need to leave it off for games? or turn it on? cause i would think i would need to turn it on (on my pc) in order to get surround sound.
  As for my xbox i still feel like they lack the whole virtual surround sound.
  Im going to try the team fortress thing with my x11s and ill let you know what happens.
   
   
  Edit: for the team fortress thing they both sound the same.
  I dont think the a40s would require a burn in or anything?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I meant to turn it off when you're listening to those videos I posted, that's all (the videos have already been processed, which is why you don't want to process them even further with your surround).

Of course you're meant to have it on when actually using them for games and the like.

edit: I don't know... perhaps it's your ears not translating it well with full sized headphones? The team fortress vid, make sure to jump at the time I mentioned, as that's when the surround processing kicks in.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, I meant to turn it off when you're listening to those videos I posted, that's all (the videos have already been processed, which is why you don't want to process them even further with your surround).
> Of course you're meant to have it on when actually using them for games and the like.


 
  Okay just making sure lol.
  I'll have to try it on the xbox again in the morning.
  Thanks for your assistance.
  It helped a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No problem. I hope you get it to work right. =(

Oh yes, specific games have their own built in headphone option, which is NOT what you want to use when using these virtual surround amps. You want to set those games to 'home theater' mode or 5.1/etc.

For example, Black Ops has a TV, Theater, Headphone modes. Only Theater mode works properly with these amps. you must remember that something like the Mixamp is taking a 5.1 signal and converting it. If you use anything other than Dolby Digital 5.1, the Mixamp/AX720 amp, etc, won't process the signal properly. Make sure the 360 is set to Dolby Digital.

*Just wanna mention that next time I update the list, I'm gonna sort everything through an alpha list (through company name first, then headphone model), for a much easier method of finding a specific headphone. I honestly don't think my list is huge to begin with, but I guess any little bet of making it easier for you guys is enough for me to wanna do it.*


----------



## l00l

@MLE
  That means I should set my 360 to Dolby Digtal 5.1 if hooked up to the mixamp pro? In fact, I have it there now anyway.
  Other options are digital stereo and WMA pro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, Dolby Digital is what you want all your devices to have for the Mixamp to do it's absolute best.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What about it? That's Chico's personal thoughts...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> *Last update: 6/10/2012
> 
> -Ultrasone Pro 2900 added (thanks calpis!)
> -sorted the listing as an alpha list. Brand name first, model second. Example: Beyerdynamic is before Denon. In the list of Beyers, the DT770 will be first because it's a lower number than the DT880 and DT990
> ...


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Oops, gave the wrong message there.
  I'm not implying anything negative at all, the face is more for me, its just that I haven't seen that guide yet (and that was exactly what I was looking for) and he quoted that it was the most immersive gaming experience he's ever had with the headphone. So I am kind of confused right now, but because of that review I think I might have to pick up both headphones and compare.
  I'll most likely go with the Q701 because of his super-in-depth comparison review along the the 5.8s bass boost, but If that dosn't satisfy me, the Beyerdynamics should.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 isn't as immediately fun as the DT990 due to a weaker bass, but they do a lot of things better, like clarity, tone, soundstage, positioning. I just prefer the DT990s for music and fun gaming due to that full on bass and overall energy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

So you do take in headphones for review after all...maybe if I get a second Stax SR-Lambda set in the future, I'll let you audition the other one for a review, provided that you have a speaker amp to drive the included energizer and an adapter cable to connect the Mixamp output to the speaker amp. Seriously, you have to try these.
   
  Once again, I'm tempted to sample some Ultrasones to see what the S-Logic hype and directionality is all about, but the recessed mids are very much a concern for me. I've found myself preferring headphones that don't let vocals drown in the music, so to speak. Then there's the pricing...at $450 for a Pro 2900, I'd rather save up a bit more and get more vintage Stax.


----------



## Rebel975

@MLE: I agree with your thoughts on the PRO2900's. I had them for a long time and thought they were good, but they always left me wanting more. That said, I don't feel I've gotten anything 'more' for gaming with my HE-500's. Don't get me wrong- the HE-500 is an amazing headphone, but it's probably not the best for gaming purposes. What I've done is trade soundstage for a smoother frequency response.
   
  Anyway, I've been feeling the upgrade itch, and was kind of hoping the Beyerdynamic T90 would satisfy my gaming needs. Is there any chance that you'll be able to hear one when they are released?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the Ultrasone Review MLE!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've been curious about Ultrasones for a while.  They seem to be very polarizing, and everyone seems to either love or hate them.  Nice to see impressions that lie in-between that spectrum. 
   
  I already had the notion that the Pro 2900 had LOTS of treble, and it's nice to get a confirmation on that.  I knew I probably wouldn't like the 2900, even before I read your impressions.  But now, it's safe to say the 2900 would be too "V" shaped for me.
   
  I think the only Ultrasone I'd consider is the HFI 2400.  It's the top of the HFI line, and also the only open HFI model (also has velours).  It's been said that they are warmer than the Pro 2900 and some other Ultrasones as well.  I've still read mixed impressions about its mids.  The Q701 has spoiled me, and I don't think I could live with recessed mids now.  If Q701s are the most natural sounding headphone I've heard (and they are), I bet I'd find most Ultrasones models unnatural sounding.   I think the 2900 is supposed to have a larger soundstage then the HFI 2400.  If the 2900 soundstage is only medium-to-large sized and falling behind other open cans, that doesn't bode well for the HFI 2400. 
   
   
   
  MLE, do you have any new opinions on "S-logic" now? Good, Bad, or OK for gaming?  Or not even that noticeable?  (I have a feeling it would come more into play with plain stereo, but I'm not sure...)
   
  Oh, one more thing, how _deep _are the cups?  They look really shallow in pics, but are they any deeper than say, Beyers?
   
   
  Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> Oops, gave the wrong message there.
> I'm not implying anything negative at all, the face is more for me, its just that I haven't seen that guide yet (and that was exactly what I was looking for) and he quoted that it was the most immersive gaming experience he's ever had with the headphone. So I am kind of confused right now, but because of that review I think I might have to pick up both headphones and compare.
> I'll most likely go with the Q701 because of his super-in-depth comparison review along the the 5.8s bass boost, but If that dosn't satisfy me, the Beyerdynamics should.


 
   
  Oh OK.  I hope I didn't fill your brain with F*$%.    
   
  I may come across a little biased  in that comparison, but that's just because I prefer the Q701.  The DT990 is still a nice headphone.  I personally just couldn't handle its treble and mids.
   
  I would say the Q701 is the safer choice, but it's always best to get both and compare for yourself.  Otherwise you get that nagging curiousity about how the other sounds.  Nah'mean? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  What made the Q701s immersive for me, was their combination of soundstage along with a thick punchy sound.  Up until them I'd always thought you had to either choose between either a headphone with a large open soundstage but with a thin weak bass-light sound, or thick punchy headphone but with a smaller closed soundstage.  From the heapdhones I've tried, the Q701 strike the best balance between the two, having a large open soundstage along with some nice body and punch to the sound, with just the right amount of warmth.  
   
  I also just really like their signature and balance, and they sound very natural to me.  When they sound natural, it makes it less obvious that I'm wearing headphones and they can disappear more > immersion.


----------



## AxelCloris

So I ordered a pair of JVC HARX700 recently as I've heard they're nice and comfortable for their price. Looking forward to tossing them in the ring of gaming and seeing how they turn out. Should be here Tuesday if the tracking is accurate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico: S-Logic, bad for music (makes it sound unnatural to me), didn't affect DH gaming positively or negatively.

I will say, the Q701 is a lot more natural sounding. In direct comparison, the Q701 is easily the better can in everything but speed and bass. I was quite disappointed in the Pro 2900 when directly comparing the two, which was my fault. They don't sound remotely alike, and I felt they shouldn't be compared in that way. A better comparison would be the 880/990 and HE-4.

Based off the Pro 2900s own performance, not comparing it to anything, and understanding that its bright with a V shaped sound curve, the Pro 2900 is very enjoyable and a fantastic headphone, just overpriced, IMHO.

Personally, I don't think you'd like it. The Q701 has spoiled me too, and the difference is why I didn't put a direct comparison in the review.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So I ordered a pair of JVC HARX700 recently as I've heard they're nice and comfortable for their price. Looking forward to tossing them in the ring of gaming and seeing how they turn out. Should be here Tuesday if the tracking is accurate.


 
   
  I used to have the HARX900.  They are freaking huge.  For how huge they are,you'd think the cups would be deeper though (The CALs are tiny in comparison but still have deeper cups).  They also got hot on my ears. 
   
  The soundstage was a bit weird and unevenly staggered sounding to me, and the imaging/positioning wasn't very intuitive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let me clarify about S-logic. The Pro 2900 is a great music can, but S-logic was detrimental to the sound quality. The Pro 2900 has a wide soundstage, almost unnaturally so. In the Virtual Barber Shop binaural demo, the part where they are using clippers to cut hair, it sounds off your head, where it should sound ON your head. 

The sound separation was a bit too separated, and I'm gonna blame S-logic. It just doesn't sound realistic compared to a standard driver placement. That doesn't mean it negatively affected sound fidelity. Just... the presentation was a bit off compared to normal.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Oh, one more thing, how _deep _are Ultrasone cups?  They look really shallow in pics, but are they any deeper than say, Beyers?


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

OK, Q701 it is. Thanks for the help, though now I have to buy an astro mixamp....
About $370 down the hatch I guess.
I think i chose the wrong hobby to get into for a (about to be) 16 year old with no current job  .
Hopefully when I get some more money my wallet won't be quite so sad as it's going to be.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are deep enough. The cups aren't huge like the Q701s, but depth is slightly shallower. Not Beyer shallow though. They should be fine for ear comfort.


----------



## calpis

Thanks for the thorough review MLE, you knocked it out of the park. This helps me figure out what my next headphone might be.
   
  If you ever want to try the hfi2200 (which is identical to the 2400) just let me know. I also have the hs15 which is ultrasone's only headset they ever made. It's a barebones headset with nothing like a volume control or a mute switch.


----------



## Pastel

Hi, thanks for the guide you've written up. I just have one question. How do I connect my AKG Q701 to my pc and still emulate dolby digital surround sound? Do I absolutely need a mixamp? Are there any other alternatives?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Calpis: thanks for your kind words. I was literally stressing out on how to word the entire damn thing without making it sound like I was completely for or against it. I would say that the Pro 2900 is a damn good headphone ESPECIALLY for gaming. It does directionality well and has good bass and is analytical, this one is easily recommendable to anyone who can afford it. 

Its solid for both fun and competitive. So yeah, an all rounder through and through. Its a little rough in certain areas, but so is the DT990 and DT880 which I love. Pros and cons. The biggest drawback is the price, that's pretty much it.

I won't consider the mids a drawback because its to be expected from a v shaped headphone.

Pastel, there are soundcards that have Dolby Headphone. Check the PC guide (linked on the first post)


----------



## calpis

I bought them [2900] used locally from a kind japanese college student for roughly $350. He only had them for roughly a month before putting them up for sale. I agree that the msrp on them are ridiculously overpriced and think that I had paid a very fair price for them. Before that, I bought the 2200 off ebay for just a hair under $100. I still love their brown and orange color scheme.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I bought them [2900] used locally from a kind japanese college student for roughly $350. He only had them for roughly a month before putting them up for sale. I agree that the msrp on them are ridiculously overpriced and think that I had paid a very fair price for them. Before that, I bought the 2200 off ebay for just a hair under $100. I still love their brown and orange color scheme.


 
   
  How are the HFI 2200/2400 compared to 2900?  Warmer?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't like the Pro 2900 out of the Mixamp, preferred it on the STX as it is much much cleaner and signal quality many leagues above it. Did a comparison on Battlefield 3. BF3 -> STX -> Dolby Headphone -> Pro 2900 vs. BF3 -> STX -> DDL -> Mixamp -> Pro 2900 and it's almost shocking.
   
  The review is a good one though and almost matches my impressions. S-Logic is hit and miss though for many, it always has been, in my case it works very well, better than my PC360 for instance.
   
  I ordered a T90 now and will compare.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One thing: the Pro 2900 absolutely did NOT like the E9. The E9 made the Pro 2900 incredibly harsh and thin. Quite possibly the worst combination I've heard, outside of the E9 with the HE-4, which just did not do the HE-4 any favors.

If anything, the Pro 2900 would do well with some warm amps.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I would like to give the Q701 a try as well (I like the green version ) but I am afraid of its headband and those pressure points which made me dislike the K701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're no different, so if they bothered you back then, they'll bother you now.

Frankly, I don't see how people don't get used to them.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> How are the HFI 2200/2400 compared to 2900?  Warmer?


 
   
  I would say they're warmer but I found that the treble did pierce my ears more on certain songs whereas the 2900 never really did. I did a  partial kees mod by sticking some felt on the metal plate and this did help partially alleviate my issue with the treble. The bass is slower, muddier, boomier. I'm still really fond of the 2200 but I find that the 2900 is pretty much just the 2200 with every aspect of it upgraded. Sorry, I'm not really great at doing comparisons so this is the best I can come up with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> I would say they're warmer but I found that the treble did pierce my ears more on certain songs whereas the 2900 never really did. I did a  partial kees mod by sticking some felt on the metal plate and this did help partially alleviate my issue with the treble. The bass is slower, muddier, boomier. I'm still really fond of the 2200 but I find that the 2900 is pretty much just the 2200 with every aspect of it upgraded. Sorry, I'm not really great at doing comparisons so this is the best I can come up with.




That makes two of us. I'm really bad at direct comparisons. 

It's especially hard when two headphones sound very different. Like my struggles trying to point out the differences to you between the Q701 and Pro 2900. XD

It's much easier when two headphones sounded very much alike. That way that initial shock of difference doesn't make you biased towards one or the other.

edit: I'm just listening to some EDM with the Pro 2900 currently. So damn good. DAT BASS CONTROL!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, the bass is something that I miss on many other phones. In BF3 for instance when the chopper starts and you notice that very deep bass, as well in explosions or shells hitting at your direction. It's simply not present with the DT990, PC 360, K701 etc. Yes, the DT990 has a monster bass but far from the Pro 2900's refined and detailed bass. Really Awesome. Now if Ultrasone could make the mids as great as they did with the Signature Pro.....we will see next year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The thing about the Pro 2900, is that they do all forms of bass well. Like to me, the DT990 and D7000 excel more on the bottom end than on the mid bass. The Pro 2900 just has bass down pat. I just wish it was ever so slightly more prominent, and treble less prominent so as not to make the mids even more recessed.


----------



## calpis

I would love to try the Signature Pro but that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outside my budget.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, I wouldn't want the bass more prominent. BF3 on PC with those hq samples (+ Dolby Headphone) is always a good example. A shell explodes nearby, let's say 2m near me. That full deep and very hardhitting bass literally knocks me off my socks, it really does. I get scared, I take cover, pumped with adrenaline I make my SMAW ready. It kicks me, I like it, I sometimes refer to the Pro 2900 as adrenaline gaming. 
   
  I can't reproduce this with a Mixamp btw.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the Sig pro is umm... yeah. Not EVER going to spend that much. $700 is probably the highest I'd ever go. I'm pretty happy with how mid-fi to mid-hi-fi sounds, so I'll leave the 1K+ models to others. 

As for the Pro 2900 bass, I'm mainly referring to it's performance with music (wanting a little more). With games, the bass is pretty damn perfect.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ah ok, sorry, I misunderstood then. 
   
  Honestly, if the Signature Pro gets its open version I will immediately grab one for testing. It would probably make a killer gaming headphone. 
   
  Until then I am curious for the T90 and the HD800, with the latter being too expensive though. I wonder if anyone here has experiences with HD 800 and gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm currently most interested in the T90 and HE500. Before, I wasn't interested in the HE500, but the Q701 made me appreciate that type of balanced, warm sound. I know I wouldn't use the HE500 as the main music can, but definitely as the 'upgrade' to the Q701, music-wise.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have the HE-500 (after 2 dissapointing qa issues gave them a new try)
   
  It's my most favorite music headphone ever and I listened to a lot before I chose them. If I'd ever replace them it would be a HE-6 successor, nothing below. I heard the LCD-2 as well but liked the HE-500 a bit better even though the LCD-2 has a beautiful bass. 
   
  T90 only interests me for gaming. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The LCD-2 doesn't interest me in the least. Talks of it's treble being too smooth pretty much made them non-existent to me, even if it has good bass.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Then you will like the HE-500 better as well. Highs are outstanding. Smooth, no harshness, no grain, no peak and very detailed. Give them try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd love to, one day.


----------



## XHale

Hey great guide man, really informative.
   
  2 questions:
   
  Would the KSC75 be good to tide me over (my current headphones are almost broken) until I go to Germany in July and then get a DT990 Pro?
   
  Is there a better pair of headphones for gaming and classical music in the DT990's price range?
  I've been looking at the FA-011 and FA-003 BTW.
   
  Thanks


----------



## ninjikiran

actually the LCD-2 has good treble, its just sibilant notes don't make you want to gouge your ears out.  The balance of the LCD-2 is really good~
   
  As far as sound staging goes I haven't really tested it out in any games, haven't found a suitable adapter to use with my mixamp(they all fail).


----------



## PsyMed

Where do you enable a dolby headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hear the treble is rolled off with no sparkle. That to me is not good treble. I hate when treble is too subdued. Like the ESW9 which a lot of people here on Head-fi love. I thought it was horrible. Sure it had amazing mids and bass, but the treble was 'smooth'. It may as well been called trebleless.

This is why I would never go for headphones like the HD650 and LCD2. I prefer a slight tip towards treble than mids.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





psymed said:


> Where do you enable a dolby headphone?


 
  Enable "Dolby Headphone" with what device or card?


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

*EDIT*
  Useless post, carry on.


----------



## draven5494

MLE, I mostly agree with your review of the Pro 2900.  Especially when it comes to the soundstage and placement.  I suppose the S-Logic tech just doesn't work with my ears as I really don't get a sense of a normal soundstage with the 2900s.  It feels... fake.  Like the headphone is tricking me into thinking the soundstage is wider than it is.  This may work for some, but for me it becomes distracting after a short time.  Although, like you said, the placement of sounds is very accurate.  It is quite easy to tell where a sound is coming from in a game while wearing the 2900s.  
   
  Unfortunately, I also have a big issue with the fit of these headphones.  The design of the drivers is as such if you don't have them perfectly centered over your ears and head the sound changes drastically.  I have found that if pushed slightly forward on my head the treble detail fades quickly and bass becomes boomy.  If they are slid back just a bit the treble really takes over and they can actually become a bit too bright.  When centered they do sound quite good - with deep, detailed bass and pleasant treble.  
   
  I have a pair of HE400s on their way right now and I fully expect them to surpass the 2900s in every category, especially the soundstage dept.  I will post my impressions later this week or early next week.
   
  Oh, I forgot to mention that my DH setup is like this:  Auzentech Forte SPDIF (Dolby Encoding) --> Turtle Beach DSS --> Matrix m-stage --> headphones
   
  Occasionally I will use CMSS3D as well, but this is a DH thread... 
   
  Thanks again for this thread.  Very helpful and informative!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Don't get your hopes up, HE-400 soundstage is even lesser than HE-500.


----------



## l00l

Alright, I got my mixamp pro today and here is a quick review (or better: first impressions) and a few questions:
   
  I tried 3 things: Gaming on Xbox 360 via optical (only COD so far) and movies on Xbox 360 (Apocalypse Now Redux). TV/Sports/Movies on my digital cable box, also via optical. Blu Ray via coax.
   
  Gaming/Movies on Xbox: Just loved it!! It takes a lil getin used to since without the mixamp the sounds are all right there, sort of in front of your ears. With the mixamp on DH at first you get the feeling that sounds are more distant, but that´s exactly what it should do and the overall sound is very, very good. No hiss, nothing.
  Same for movies. I tried a helicopter scene with and without DH on a couple of times and DH just adds so much depth and room to the sound. Great.
   
  TV/Sports/Movies: Movies sound great via the cable box as well (only tried one though), TV and sports not so much. I think I´d rather watch this without DH on, even though a lot of stuff is broadcasted in DD 5.1.
   
  Blu Ray: Well, here comes the real downside! I was not able to geht sound via coax. Sound in the menus was there, but not in the movie itself. I guess it´s some sort of format issue... DTS? On what setting do I have to have my blu ray player to get sound through the mixamp??
   
  On last thing: I think the mixamp could drive the DT 990 pro a lil louder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Set your Blu-Ray to NOT play in DTS. DTS won't play on the Mixamp.

Something in the audio settings should bypass DTS and at least do stereo, which the Mixamp will play.

Blu-Rays usually play Dolby Digital only in the previews and menus. Secondary languages should have Dolby.


----------



## l00l

Thank you, that helped!
  What I did is, I set "digital audio" to "PCM" instead of "bitrate". Whatever hat means  Would I also want the PCM-Downsampling on "on" or "off" (96 to 48 kHZ)? I ain´t got no idea what that means. sorry.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just leave that at default.

Bitstream and PCM. PCM I believe is direct signal to 'speakers' no processing like Dolby. Think of it like a basic audio signal..


----------



## l00l

And then the mixamp does the processing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not really. Turning DH on is not true DH unless the signal is Dolby Digital. Problem is Blu-Rays mostly do DTS for english audio, so the Mixamp won't work its magic there. Just set it to whatever gets audio to the Mixamp and turn DH off. It'll be stereo audio.


----------



## l00l

Well that it is a downside. But thanks anway.
  Just tried the Fiio E6 to get a bit more volume and that works fine as well.


----------



## XernobiuL

Did you already use the astro a40? I'm in doubt between the a40 and pc360.


----------



## draven5494

fegefeuer said:


> Don't get your hopes up, HE-400 soundstage is even lesser than HE-500.




Is this your opinion based on listening experience? 

From what I have read about the HE400s their soundstage is large and they have great separation. I have read that the HE400's soundstage even surpasses the DT990s.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

I've been posting all over but I figure I'll ask the guru. 
   
  I was leaning to the K702 with the Objective 2 amp or the M-Stage amp for competitive gaming. My squad on Ghost Recon Future Soldier is ranked 3 in the world at the moment and I realized it's time to step up my gaming. 
   
  Which headphones and amps, accessories would you recommend that would give me an almost "unfair" advantage.
   
  Edit: Thanks again Chico for giving me all that advice on all my other threads. lol
   
  So from what I've read the K702 are the god of reasonably priced gaming cans, they need to be amped, the MixAmp Pro adds Dolby yet for voice you need a separate amp.
   
  K702
  MixAmp Pro
  O2 Amp?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





xernobiul said:


> Did you already use the astro a40? I'm in doubt between the a40 and pc360.


 
   
  The PC360s are better.  I've owned both and so has MLE.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I've been posting all over but I figure I'll ask the guru.
> 
> I was leaning to the K702 with the Objective 2 amp or the M-Stage amp for competitive gaming. My squad on Ghost Recon Future Soldier is ranked 3 in the world at the moment and I realized it's time to step up my gaming.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No problem.
   
  If you just want to soundwhore, you can do it for cheaper than the K702.  I would pick the Q701 over the K702 anyways.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> No problem.
> 
> If you just want to soundwhore, you can do it for cheaper than the K702.  I would pick the Q701 over the K702 anyways.


 
  why is that?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> why is that?


 
   
  Probably because of bass. Impressions here repeatedly state the Q has more bass than the K, but is not overblown by far.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Out of curiosity,
  Has anyone tried the new AX720s? I currently own the previous version that most people know of, but after I was component shopping on Tritton's website, I found that they actually have a newer model. I'm not interested that much in the headset, but the Dolby Processing box looks like its gotten a revamp.
   
   
   


  Pleather?


----------



## Jigen

Would you say the AKG Q701's are still good for gaming in plain old stereo? The reason I ask is because I am also interested in using these for listening to music, and I would have to go over my $250 budget if I want to add in the Astrogaming mixamp for $130. Adding the mixamp at a later date is an option, but for the time being I would have to go directly from my gaming consoles to my portable amp and the Q701's.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





jigen said:


> Would you say the AKG Q701's are still good for gaming in plain old stereo? The reason I ask is because I am also interested in using these for listening to music, and I would have to go over my $250 budget if I want to add in the Astrogaming mixamp for $130. Adding the mixamp at a later date is an option, but for the time being I would have to go directly from my gaming consoles to my portable amp and the Q701's.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
  The question is: Can you amp power those cans? From all I've read the AKG x70x series are power hungry and for good reason.
   
  I know for a fact the Q701 are great in stereo period, the mix amp is there to provide 5.1 DDS or as astro claims 7.1 Virtual sound.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Probably because of bass. Impressions here repeatedly state the Q has more bass than the K, but is not overblown by far.


 
  I know it has more bass but I don't know how much more... will an explosion drown out an enemies footsteps? Will a passing train or airplane over kill the sound of a mag reload around the corner? I would like to get the Q701 but the 702 look very nice and you can change the cable which is a huge benefit in my book.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> why is that?


 
   
  Fuller sound/better body to sound, better bass, more balanced sound, with the same soundstage as K702.  Q701s are more enjoyable/immersive/fun sounding then K702.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Fuller sound/better body to sound, better bass, more balanced sound, with the same soundstage as K702.  Q701s are more enjoyable/immersive/fun sounding then K702.


 
  I just checked amazon and the K702s are running at 284 a pop. The black edition Q701s are 234 a pop.  That is a huge benefit too.
   
  Is that a picture of the white Q701 btw?


----------



## Jigen

Oh, I didn't realize they were that power hungry. I noticed they are listed at around 60 Ohms on Headroom. Right now I am using a Xin Supermini IV portable amp with my Ety ER4S earphones. I'm not really sure if the AKG's will be much of an upgrade (or a downgrade, or just different), but since I am looking for gaming headphones as well, I figure I can use my Ety's as my main pair of phones for when I'm on the go, and the AKG's more for home use.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Is that a picture of the white Q701 btw?


 
   
  Ya.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





jigen said:


> Oh, I didn't realize they were that power hungry. I noticed they are listed at around 60 Ohms on Headroom. Right now I am using a Xin Supermini IV portable amp with my Ety ER4S earphones. I'm not really sure if the AKG's will be much of an upgrade (or a downgrade, or just different), but since I am looking for gaming headphones as well, I figure I can use my Ety's as my main pair of phones for when I'm on the go, and the AKG's more for home use.


 
  I'm still at a crossroad between the Q701 and the K702. I know there is more bass but how much ya know? lol Also from reading Mad Lust's entire post I've concluded that for competitive gaming bang for buck the AKG are the way to go.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I'm still at a crossroad between the Q701 and the K702. I know there is more bass but how much ya know? lol Also from reading Mad Lust's entire post I've concluded that for competitive gaming bang for buck the AKG are the way to go.


 
   
  Here's my comparison > http://www.head-fi.org/t/594927/akg-q701-vs-akg-k702-comparison-review
   
  It's about like a standard bass boost.  But it's not like the Q701s are super bass-heavy headphones. 
   
  When looking at the AKGs price, you have to take into account that they need a pricier amp then say a Sennheiser HD598, which is also great for _competitive _gaming while being easy to drive.


----------



## Jigen

I wish I could help. As always, I'm feeling lost and overwhelmed, haha. And hoping someone will point me in the right direction. If I do get anything, I am leaning toward the Q701 (assuming my amp can actually drive it -- if not, I will have to look elsewhere) because it seems to be a little bit more balanced between Mad Lust's fun and competitive categories. Having a competitive edge would be nice, but having fun with single player games is probably more important for me.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





jigen said:


> I wish I could help. As always, I'm feeling lost and overwhelmed, haha. And hoping someone will point me in the right direction. If I do get anything, I am leaning toward the Q701 (assuming my amp can actually drive it -- if not, I will have to look elsewhere) because it seems to be a little bit more balanced between Mad Lust's fun and competitive categories. Having a competitive edge would be nice, but having fun with single player games is probably more important for me.


 
  You know what bro! You just made my mind up. lol! Thanks man! You are so right. I'm not a huge hardcore competitive gamer on comparison to some people and I too enjoy many single player games like Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed. I think I'll go with the Q701, plus the price difference of 50 bucks will help a lot when buying an O2 and a mix amp pro. !>.<!


----------



## Jigen

Lol, no problem. Glad I could help. I hope you like them.
   
  Good comparison, chicolom. Thanks.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> Out of curiosity,
> Has anyone tried the new AX720s? I currently own the previous version that most people know of, but after I was component shopping on Tritton's website, I found that they actually have a newer model. I'm not interested that much in the headset, but the Dolby Processing box looks like its gotten a revamp.


 
   
  I did. But I don´t think there´s a big difference between the old and the new model. Cosmetic changes more or less. And they got rid of one cable by powering the headset through the box now.
   
  And I did try the Star Wars blu ray yesterday switching back and forth between Dolby Digtal 5.1 (Spanish) and the "clean" signal from the DTS master. Both with DH on. 
  Well, there obviously is a difference cause the DTS master with DH on sounded thinner than the real DD 5.1 signal. But I just turned up the volume a bit and still think the sound is good with DH on. Gives it more space than stereo.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I did. But I don´t think there´s a big difference between the old and the new model. Cosmetic changes more or less. And they got rid of one cable by powering the headset through the box now.
> 
> And I did try the Star Wars blu ray yesterday switching back and forth between Dolby Digtal 5.1 (Spanish) and the "clean" signal from the DTS master. Both with DH on.
> Well, there obviously is a difference cause the DTS master with DH on sounded thinner than the real DD 5.1 signal. But I just turned up the volume a bit and still think the sound is good with DH on. Gives it more space than stereo.


 
  So how does one achieve DH anyways besides using items like Turtle beach DDS and Astro Mix Amp or a Asus sound card?


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> So how does one achieve DH anyways besides using items like Turtle beach DDS and Astro Mix Amp or a Asus sound card?


 
   
  Some AV receivers got built in dolby headphone.
   
  If I watch some TV channel that has a "Dolby Digtal" track and I set my cable box to that track, then the mixamp has the right source material to process with DH. Is that correct?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I just bought the Q701 an the ant lion modmic.  Now selling my pc360 grill mod for $150.00 if anyone is interested.  Can't wait for the new edition!


----------



## theguythatthe

I'm having a problem with my setup and I'm hoping someone here can help me. This is my signal chain:

Xbox 360 Slim
Optical cord
Tritton Ax720 decoder box
Creative Aurvana Live plugged into game side of Tritton connector.


The problem I'm having is a very intermittent static noise (happens maybe twice in an hour period) that lasts for about a second. It only happens in the left ear. Before I go about replacing parts of the chain, does anyone have any suspicions as to what may be the problem?

Thanks!


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

I have a new Zalman ZM-1 Mic brand new in box next to me and I'm not sure If I should return it. From what I've read the Zalman is a pretty good deal, but if you are willing to spend a little more money, there are better deals. I could return it at any time up until July, so I'm not sure if I should keep it or get an Antlion/Labtech LVA or something else.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





pceluvnslomo said:


> I have a new Zalman ZM-1 Mic brand new in box next to me and I'm not sure If I should return it. From what I've read the Zalman is a pretty good deal, but if you are willing to spend a little more money, there are better deals. I could return it at any time up until July, so I'm not sure if I should keep it or get an Antlion/Labtech LVA or something else.


 
*http://tinyurl.com/cjky97a*
   
*Plenty of good cheap mics there.*
   
  Ant Lion Mod Mic - Also a good choice
http://www.modmic.com/


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> The problem I'm having is a very intermittent static noise (happens maybe twice in an hour period) that lasts for about a second. It only happens in the left ear. Before I go about replacing parts of the chain, does anyone have any suspicions as to what may be the problem?


 
   
  Is it a burst of digital white noise or an analog hiss/static?


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Final question before I go and purchase my AKG Q701s and my Antlion Modmic
  I am not sure the Tritton AX720 top box can power my Q701s, let alone with a mic attached. I have a FiiO e6 with me now and I'm not sure I'll be getting any other amps for a while. I was planning on using the E6 along with the AKGs with bass boost on, but I'm not sure how this small amp will work along with the Tritton box. Could this setup work or will I have to purchase a e9?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AX720 is more powerful than the Mixamp by a smidge, so yes. Not sure if the E6 will add any beneficial amounts of power as its a very weak amp. The E11 would've been a safer choice. The E5 and E6 I believe share the same power, and the E5 didn't even add an appreciable amount of volume to the Mixamp. People should realize that the difference between a few decibels in volume is quite a bit of power. Not sure how the math is, but I think in some instances, just a few decibels needs twice the power. The E5 barely made a difference when I added it to the Mixamp and trying to power harder to drive cans.

Ironically, I loved the K701 and E5 with bass boost on, though the sound was anything but K701-like.


----------



## theguythatthe

It's a burst of digital white noise. Bad optical cable?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I'm pretty sure it's a burst of digital white noise. Bad optical cable?


 
   
  I'm not sure.  If you have another one I would try it though.  I thought when encoded signals aren't decoded correctly you can hear digital noise.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If it's digital noise it's probably in the cable or decoder box I'm guessing.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The AX720 is more powerful than the Mixamp by a smidge, so yes. Not sure if the E6 will add any beneficial amounts of power as its a very weak amp. The E11 would've been a safer choice. The E5 and E6 I believe share the same power, and the E5 didn't even add an appreciable amount of volume to the Mixamp. People should realize that the difference between a few decibels in volume is quite a bit of power. Not sure how the math is, but I think in some instances, just a few decibels needs twice the power. The E5 barely made a difference when I added it to the Mixamp and trying to power harder to drive cans.
> Ironically, I loved the K701 and E5 with bass boost on, though the sound was anything but K701-like.


 
   
  For me the E6 added enough power to the mixamp pro to experience a noticeable difference. Without the E6 I feel like the mixamp is not really loud enough in some situations (depending on the source material I guess) but with the E6 I never run out of volume. So for me that combo works very well.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm not sure.  If you have another one I would try it though.  I thought when encoded signals aren't decoded correctly you can hear digital noise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It might normally be just above the SNR threshold and some movement causes the noise.  You could check by just pulling it out and seeing how bright the glow is.  
   
  I could also imagine it being the DAC or the DSP overheating.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Just got the Q701 and burning it in.  Not too bad.  Seems like when listening to music if the lower end is deep I don't hear it too much but if its more mid bass hump than I can hear it.  But its still early to say, I need to burn it in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty much the same opinion I have of them. Sub bass is lacking in presence, and mid bass is a bit stronger. Like you stated, sub bass is still there, and not missing, like in the AD700. 

When you bass boost the 701s (even the K701), sub bass is damn good. So the 701s could be tweaked by AKG and make a pretty serious bassy can if they wanted.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pretty much the same opinion I have of them. Sub bass is lacking in presence, and mid bass is a bit stronger. Like you stated, sub bass is still there, and not missing, like in the AD700.
> When you bass boost the 701s (even the K701), sub bass is damn good. So the 701s could be tweaked by AKG and make a pretty serious bassy can if they wanted.


 
  I wish... I have read that the AKG k340s have subwoofer bass in them.  Idk if they would be similar to the Q701's sound stage.  I highly doubt they do because they are IEM's.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Side note, I'm watching the TV show "Heroes" while using my Lavry Da11 and I'm really enjoying this.  Spacious, and sounds just "right"... I tried to compare the PC360 to it and the sound stage is so much larger.  I'm very happy with this purchase.  What kind of changes should I expect?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pretty much the same opinion I have of them. Sub bass is lacking in presence, and mid bass is a bit stronger. Like you stated, sub bass is still there, and not missing, like in the AD700.
> When you bass boost the 701s (even the K701), sub bass is damn good. So the 701s could be tweaked by AKG and make a pretty serious bassy can if they wanted.


 
   
  I'm really happy with the Q701's bass considering all their nice open qualities and sweet soundstage.  Their bass blew me away when I first heard them,  as I was expecting to hear something more like "AD700 + Bass boost" when I got them.  Q701s don't break much of a sweat giving some subtle rumbling effects, while AD700s couldn't rumble if their life depended on it and you raped them with bass boost. 
   
   
  Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> I'm very happy with this purchase.  What kind of changes should I expect?


 
   
  Your talking about the Q701s right?  Expect them to completely change after 49 and a half hours.  The difference is night-and-day.  If you think they sound like garbage still, wait until after 490 hours... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No, I don't think they change much.  Probably "ear pad burn-in" more than anything else.  I know nothing about the Lavry DA11 your using, but going of a picture of it, it looks expensive and hopefully sounds expensive


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm really happy with the Q701's bass considering all their nice open qualities and sweet soundstage.  Their bass blew me away when I first heard them,  as I was expecting to hear something more like "AD700 + Bass boost" when I got them.  Q701s don't break much of a sweat giving some subtle rumbling effects, while AD700s couldn't rumble if their life depended on it and you raped them with bass boost.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh no I don't think it sounds like garbage at all.  I like it.  I just tried it with the mix amp playing some MW3 with a perk that allows me to hear all footsteps of the other team even with perks that quiet their foot steps but the sound stage blew me away.  I felt a little uneasy with it at first but got used to it.  
  Oh the Lavry Da11 is very transparent and shows how badly the recording is.  I use optic out and everything sounds just "right".  Sounds pretty realistic.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Oh no I don't think it sounds like garbage at all.  I like it.


 
   
  I know, I was being sarcastic. 
   
  I've have read posts from other Head-fiers who've said the same thing about K70x, but actually meant it.  Like "....they sucked, but after x hours they completely changed and are now awesome sauce."  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm glad you like them. They aren't what I usually like for music, but when I use them, I can't help but to enjoy them.

While the K701 didn't sound natural whatsoever, the Q701 is one of the most natural sounding headphones I've heard. If not the most natural.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm glad you like them. They aren't what I usually like for music, but when I use them, I can't help but to enjoy them.
> While the K701 didn't sound natural whatsoever, the Q701 is one of the most natural sounding headphones I've heard. If not the most natural.


 
  Ya I like them so far.  I know with burn in the sound changes a little or can change a lot.  But so far I like it.  
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I know, I was being sarcastic.
> 
> I've have read posts from other Head-fiers who've said the same thing about K70x, but actually meant it.  Like "....they sucked, but after x hours they completely changed and are now awesome sauce."
> 
> ...


 
  Ah I see.  I'm guessing that I'll like them more as they burn in more.


----------



## l00l

In case somebody is interested in this as well:
  I was going back and forth on my bluy ray player with the mixamp pro (dolby headphone on), switching between an actual Dolby Digal 5.1 audio signal and one that was given out by my blu ray player without the multi channel function (PCM).
  I tried a DVD (Scarface) and a blu ray (Star Wars Episode II) and in both cases I felt that the difference between the "true" DD signal and the other one mainly was that the one without DD lacked in terms of bass and power. It just sounds thinner through the mixamp (with DH on) if you give out a PCM-signal (or whatever the correct term is) compared to an actual DD signal.
  What I did however was to increase the volume and set my Fiio E6 to the blue light, so that it would get a slight bass boost. This gave the PCM-signal more power and came closer to the actual DD signal. 
  I also felt like the PCM-signal had a bit less directionality than the true DD signal, but not by that much or at least I was not able to really hear a big difference. 
   
  So what I will do - at least for the time being - when watching movies that have no DD track, is to turn on DH and give it a lil more bass and volume. imho that sounds better than pure stereo (DH off) because you still get a lot of the surround feeling through the activated DH.


----------



## sipter

Sennheiser PC360 G4ME

 Sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I'm in some need of help deciding.

 I've been looking to buy it for a substantial amount of time, however for me this thing is really expensive and I would like to see people's opinion on it. I've read many reviews on this headset (Including the one on this thread), and it seems to have an overall great score. So before I buy it I would love to know:

Is it worth the money?

Is it good for soft music played alongside with FPS games?

Is there a headset/headphone better at the price range that would work for me better? (If there is I would maybe change my mind)

Thank you in advance, any help is much appreciated !


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





sipter said:


> Sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I'm in some need of help deciding.
> 
> I've been looking to buy it for a substantial amount of time, however for me this thing is really expensive and I would like to see people's opinion on it. I've read many reviews on this headset (Including the one on this thread), and it seems to have an overall great score. So before I buy it I would love to know:
> 
> ...


 
  I may have missed something, but which headset?


----------



## sipter

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I may have missed something, but which headset?


 
  I facepalmed myself real hard when I realized I forgot to write the headset's name. Thank you for telling.


----------



## l00l

From what I know the PC360 is the second best headset you can get, after the Beyerdynamic. If it is worth the pricetag, that´s a question only you can decide for yourself, but it surely is a good headset and worth it´s price if you need a headset. 
  If you don´t need an actual headset you can get a better deal. Buy a regular headphone (maybe Creative Aurvana Live if you are looking for a cheaper alternative) and get a clip on mic.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





l00l said:


> From what I know the PC360 is the second best headset you can get, after the Beyerdynamic. If it is worth the pricetag, that´s a question only you can decide for yourself, but it surely is a good headset and worth it´s price if you need a headset.
> If you don´t need an actual headset you can get a better deal. Buy a regular headphone (maybe Creative Aurvana Live if you are looking for a cheaper alternative) and get a clip on mic.


 
  As a gaming head set?  I haven't heard much praise for the Bayer game set.  Where did you get that its the best?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





l00l said:


> From what I know the PC360 is the second best headset you can get, after the Beyerdynamic. If it is worth the pricetag, that´s a question only you can decide for yourself, but it surely is a good headset and worth it´s price if you need a headset.
> If you don´t need an actual headset you can get a better deal. Buy a regular headphone (maybe Creative Aurvana Live if you are looking for a cheaper alternative) and get a clip on mic.


 
  That's what I did! Just got my Q701s in the mail today with my Kontrol Freek mods and an Ant Lion mod mic. Still waiting on my O2 and Mix Amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is going to have a larger soundstage and airier sound than the MMX300.

The MMX300 is closed, but should offer some really great positioning, just like the DT770s. The problem is that you may get a bass heavy MMX300 or a bass light version, with no way to tell which, though I think the most recent ones have ben bass light, which is what you will truly want for a headset.


----------



## Mehdi

I hope I don't get eaten alive for this question, but...
   
  I already own a AstroMix amp already, but I've only used it on my PS3/360 due to my PC lacking optical out. However, I just upgraded to a Z77 motherboard and now *do *have optical out, using the on board audio chip (7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC898 Audio Codec), Supports THX TruStudio™).

So a few questions:
   
1. Would connecting my AstroAmp to the on-board sound work? I imagine the answer is, "no", since it doesn't support Dolby Live.
   
  2. Is it then possible to use my existing XiFi (without sdif), route it through my onboard optical port, then through the mixamp?
   
3. Should I instead get a cheap sound card, like a Asus Xonar for $20, connect it to a AstroMixAmp and pay ~$100 for a decent pair of headphones?
   
4. Alternatively, how would those options stack up against getting a Logitech G35 or G930 which have DH built in?


----------



## calpis

THX TruStudio is pretty much like Dolby Headphone, CMSS3D, and whatever else virtual surround sound for headphones out there. You won't need to have the mixamp connected at all to get a similar effect to DH. Just try it out for yourself and see how you like it compared to the mixamp, just make sure your settings are all correct.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> As a gaming head set?  I haven't heard much praise for the Bayer game set.  Where did you get that its the best?


 
  From what I picked up I thought this was the consensus.
  In any case I think it´s fair to say the PC360 is a very good headset and worth the money. But there are cheaper alternatives that are of course not as comfortable. 
   
  But isn´t the the PC360 headset similiar to some headphone Sennheiser offers? So, simply the headphone + mic.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





l00l said:


> From what I picked up I thought this was the consensus.
> In any case I think it´s fair to say the PC360 is a very good headset and worth the money. But there are cheaper alternatives that are of course not as comfortable.
> 
> But isn´t the the PC360 headset similiar to some headphone Sennheiser offers? So, simply the headphone + mic.


 
  Ya the HD555 is pretty much the sound it has.  I went with the AKG Q701 and getting the antlion boom mic.  This thus far is the best gaming phone I have tried.  I have had the Astro A40's 2x, the sirbia gaming HP, tried the LCD-2rev2 for gaming, the HD555, and the PC360.    Thus far the AKG Q701 has the soundstage and neutral sound I prefer to play online games.  Unless another comes into the mix.  Other than that I have read that the Beyer game head set has a small soundstage.  But we are all looking for the perfect HP's for our choice.  IF you like the Beyer than you like it.  I just prefer the Q701 like a few others.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ya the HD555 is pretty much the sound it has.  I went with the AKG Q701 and getting the antlion boom mic.  This thus far is the best gaming phone I have tried.  I have had the Astro A40's 2x, the sirbia gaming HP, tried the LCD-2rev2 for gaming, the HD555, and the PC360.    Thus far the AKG Q701 has the soundstage and neutral sound I prefer to play online games.  Unless another comes into the mix.  Other than that I have read that the Beyer game head set has a small soundstage.  But we are all looking for the perfect HP's for our choice.  IF you like the Beyer than you like it.  I just prefer the Q701 like a few others.


 
  Personally I have never tried the Beyer headset. But I got the DT 990 pro and am very satisfied.
  AKG Q701 would have been no option for me since they are double the price of the 990 pro.


----------



## sipter

Sorry to ask much, but to sum it up the AKG Q701 is the better option for gaming while (And for) listening to soft music? Or is there any headphone/headset better in that range. I really just want to get a great headphone/headset for one shot, and not buy anything again for 3-4 years. Thank you again.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I hope I don't get eaten alive for this question, but...
> I already own a AstroMix amp already, but I've only used it on my PS3/360 due to my PC lacking optical out. However, I just upgraded to a Z77 motherboard and now *do *have optical out, using the on board audio chip (7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC898 Audio Codec), Supports THX TruStudio™).
> So a few questions:
> 1. Would connecting my AstroAmp to the on-board sound work? I imagine the answer is, "no", since it doesn't support Dolby Live.
> ...


 
  What is the make and model of the Z77 motherboard?
  The THX TruStudio itself might (maybe?) support pre-processed surround sound thru the optical port, which means you would plug in the Mix-amp and us it as a 2-channel headphone amplifier.
  What headphones are you using?
  The X-Fi should not be able to route thru the motherboard digital optical output.
  With the Asus Xonar DG (or DGX), you would not even need to use the Mix-amp.
  I'm not qualified to answer on the G35/G930 question.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sipter said:


> Sorry to ask much, but to sum it up the AKG Q701 is the better option for gaming *while (And for) listening to soft music*? Or is there any headphone/headset better in that range.


 
   
  What do you mean by "soft music?"


----------



## sipter

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What do you mean by "soft music?"


 
Acoustic, Folk-rock, Rock, Jazz, Pop seems to be the type of music I'm trying to explain. I'm sorry I'm a total newbie at this, but I'll try to be more clear next time.

 Thank you in advance.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> 2. Is it then possible to use my existing XiFi (without sdif), route it through my onboard optical port, then through the mixamp?


 
  Wait, why would you even do this? The X-Fi card should already have an S/PDIF output...unless it's one of those early PCI models that require one of those Flexijack S/PDIF adapters, or the 5.25" front-panel bay.
   
  And on top of that, if it was a proper X-Fi card, you'd already have CMSS-3D Headphone, no need for Dolby Headphone unless you want to make a comparison between the two for yourself. Then you'd just be using the Mixamp as a headphone amp (unless you really want to do the whole Dolby Digital Live -> Mixamp -> Dolby Headphone thing), and there are far better options for that.
   
  I'm quite confused here...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

IDK where your getting your prices but I've seen that they are the same price....
   
  $239
  http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT990Pro/
   
  $239
  http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Signature-Reference-Class-Premium-Headphones/dp/B004444O3W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339883148&sr=8-1&keywords=akg+q701  
   
  Quote: 





l00l said:


> Personally I have never tried the Beyer headset. But I got the DT 990 pro and am very satisfied.
> AKG Q701 would have been no option for me since they are double the price of the 990 pro.


 
   
  This is good for gaming and can for music but what genres are you planning to listen to?  
  Quote: 





sipter said:


> Sorry to ask much, but to sum it up the AKG Q701 is the better option for gaming while (And for) listening to soft music? Or is there any headphone/headset better in that range. I really just want to get a great headphone/headset for one shot, and not buy anything again for 3-4 years. Thank you again.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sipter said:


> Acoustic, Folk-rock, Rock, Jazz, Pop seems to be the type of music I'm trying to explain. I'm sorry I'm a total newbie at this, but I'll try to be more clear next time.
> 
> Thank you in advance.


 
   
  Well, they're great for instrumental music: acoustic, jazz, soundtracks, classical.  Also some electronic genres. 
   
  Maybe less so for Rock and Pop, but I don't really listen to those so I can't comment on it.  They're pretty well rounded though.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> IDK where your getting your prices but I've seen that they are the same price....
> 
> $239
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT990Pro/
> ...


 
  Europe. Beyer DT 990 pro is around € 150, the AKG Q701 around € 300!
   
  The differences in price are just amazing!


----------



## NinjaSushi2

How good are the Q701 for music? Their also awesome for gaming from what all yall say but I haven't gotten my amps yet.

Hopefully they'll come in the mail Monday!


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Europe. Beyer DT 990 pro is around € 150, the AKG Q701 around € 300!
> 
> The differences in price are just amazing!


 
  Ah in that case I'd rather go for the cheaper.  
   
  Do you have any links to these pages?
   
  On a side note, my antlion boom mic came in a few days early!  I put it on and now use it for gaming and at first I felt like I could get lost in the sound stage.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Compared to the pc360 the sound stage is phenomenal!  I can hear everything in all directions!  I can also take off the mic when I just want to movies!  I'm uber satisfied with this purchase.


----------



## jerrylundergard

So my sennheiser HD 598 arrived. I quickly put on the antlion micmod and paired it with the astro mixamp pro. These sound ALOT different than the 2011 Astro A40. There is much less bass. For positional awareness and pinpoint accuracy of enemys I believe they are close. MAYBE, the senns can pick up enemys from further away but the Astros were damn good at enemy pinpointing. I use sitrep pro on search and destroy MW3.
   
  OVerall, not sure if worth "upgrade" from purely soundwhoring perspective. THough, I liked how they did with music but I can tell right away they need an amp. Ya its loud without amp but not really. Im thinking they are clearer than my astros but my astros were decent enough with music. ANyway, I have a badass 5.1 home theater if I need to do serious jamin.
   
  For me, its worth it cause Ill have a nice set of headphone with detachable mic I can travel with or atleast take with me where I go...


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





jerrylundergard said:


> So my sennheiser HD 598 arrived. I quickly put on the antlion micmod and paired it with the astro mixamp pro. These sound ALOT different than the 2011 Astro A40. There is much less bass. For positional awareness and pinpoint accuracy of enemys I believe they are close. MAYBE, the senns can pick up enemys from further away but the Astros were damn good at enemy pinpointing. I use sitrep pro on search and destroy MW3.
> 
> OVerall, not sure if worth "upgrade" from purely soundwhoring perspective. THough, I liked how they did with music but I can tell right away they need an amp. Ya its loud without amp but not really. Im thinking they are clearer than my astros but my astros were decent enough with music. ANyway, I have a badass 5.1 home theater if I need to do serious jamin.
> 
> For me, its worth it cause Ill have a nice set of headphone with detachable mic I can travel with or atleast take with me where I go...


 
  2.1>5.1 or 7.1 for music.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ah in that case I'd rather go for the cheaper.
> 
> Do you have any links to these pages?
> 
> On a side note, my antlion boom mic came in a few days early!  I put it on and now use it for gaming and at first I felt like I could get lost in the sound stage.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Compared to the pc360 the sound stage is phenomenal!  I can hear everything in all directions!  I can also take off the mic when I just want to movies!  I'm uber satisfied with this purchase.


 
  which HP did you go with? Q701?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> which HP did you go with? Q701?


 
  Yep!


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ah in that case I'd rather go for the cheaper.
> 
> Do you have any links to these pages?
> 
> On a side note, my antlion boom mic came in a few days early!  I put it on and now use it for gaming and at first I felt like I could get lost in the sound stage.  I'm not exaggerating either.  Compared to the pc360 the sound stage is phenomenal!  I can hear everything in all directions!  I can also take off the mic when I just want to movies!  I'm uber satisfied with this purchase.


 
  I was just looking it up on amazon. uk, de, it... pick your poison


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I was just looking it up on amazon. uk, de, it... pick your poison


 
  Ya, I'd go for the cheaper.  Thats if your willing to spend double the price I'd say go for the Q701's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are polar opposites in any case. The DT990 pro is a whole lot of bass and fun. The Q701 is very balanced all around. They both serve a different purpose. I'm inclined to say that having both would fulfill all needs from music, movies, gaming, fun, competitive, etc.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They are polar opposites in any case. The DT990 pro is a whole lot of bass and fun. The Q701 is very balanced all around. They both serve a different purpose. I'm inclined to say that having both would fulfill all needs from music, movies, gaming, fun, competitive, etc.


 
  I am thinking of getting a Sennheiser HD 598 for a balanced all around HP, especially music and TV. You think that would be a good choice as well to go along with my 990 pro (for movies, gaming).
  I had it for a couple of months and was very pleased with it´s overall performance. But then again, I´ve not tried many headphones.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





l00l said:


> I am thinking of getting a Sennheiser HD 598 for a balanced all around HP, especially music and TV. You think that would be a good choice as well to go along with my 990 pro (for movies, gaming).
> I had it for a couple of months and was very pleased with it´s overall performance. But then again, I´ve not tried many headphones.


 
  I have both I00I.
   
  I have tested both extensively, The HD598s are sitting here in there box as we speak as I am trying to sell them.
   
  This is completely my opinion.
  For female vocal music(Colbie Calliat, Adele), soundtracks (LOTR) the HD598 are brilliant. For comfort they are amazing you get to a point where you don't even realize they are on. For movies they are great fun because they have that huge soundstage. They sound more like speakers then headphones if that makes any sense. For me personally they are just way to mid forward. I found them incredibly painful after a couple of hours sound wise cause the mids are so forward. The quantity of bass killed it for me also. It is there but just hiding. Like saying you are going swimming but you end up just wading in the shallow end all day.
   
  For me the DT990pros are way better. The soundstage isn't as big but feels more 3-D. The clarity is just as good as the HD598s, but the mid are recessed. As you know they are heavier on bass and treble. Which for my ears is much more relaxing. I am one of those people that actually found the Superlux HD668Bs perfect not to bright in the high freq range. Yes I am an odd person. DT990pros are comfortable enough but no where near the comfort region of the HD598s.
   
  The HD598 are literally the polar opposite of the DT990pros. I love them both, hence why I want to try a Q701 if the mids are toned down a bit from the HD598. If they are not then that puts other headphones in it's place to try next. But I would love to have a massive soundstage with nice mids to match. Have also looked at the HD600 and HD650 but I am not to sure they have the soundstage I am looking for.
   
  Honestly I should just be saving all the money I have for T1s or D7000s. But I just can't help but try new toys that interest me.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I have both I00I.
> 
> I have tested both extensively, The HD598s are sitting here in there box as we speak as I am trying to sell them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very interesting.
  I have to admit that I can´t exactly tell how the 598s sounded, all I can remember is that they soundes very, very good to my ears, at least at that time.
  Comfort is great for me on both, so no problems there. 
   
  What do you mean that the 598 sound "way to mid forward"? And you also think they lack in bass?
   
  My problem with the DT 990 pro is that they sound just great for gaming and movies, but for music the treble is just too much. I don´t like the scratching highs and from what I remember the 598s were smoother and more balanced and hence better for music and tv. Especially watching TV is no fun with the 990 pro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 is like the Q701 but even more mids, and less refinement. The Q701 is more balanced. No doubt for me, the Q701 is better.


----------



## Drastion

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up on a great deal. Refurbished Turtle beach x11 + dss 45 shipped. www.1saleaday.com/?CID=168142&AFID=178621 Its for xbox but wuth this it will work on ps3 www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=IJ9RN7Q8J892C&colid=3GLFI6JTPAF Super cheap dolby headphone starter set. May not be the best sounding headphone but its a great way to start out.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD598 is like the Q701 but even more mids, and less refinement. The Q701 is more balanced. No doubt for me, the Q701 is better.


 
  I love the looks of it as well! Too bad it´s damn expensive here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the looks are more impressive online than in person. I've said the same with the white K701. It looks SEXY online, but once you have it home, it looks like it's made out of toilet bowl porcelain. It looks horrible when worn too. I honestly think people shouldn't be fooled by online images. Almost every single headphone I've tried have looked better online, except maybe the ES7. That thing is sexy no matter what. Just wish is wasn't so damn uncomfortable. Even the D7000 isn't as impressive looking in person.

I think only the HE-4, ES7, Premium DT770/880 are the prettiest out of all the headphones I've tried.

The one headphone that REALLY turned ugly from how pretty it looked online was the HD598. MAN, that thing is HIDEOUS and cheap looking in person. Only the wood looking accents looked bearable.


----------



## l00l

Don´t know about all the others you are mentioning, but I thought the HD 598 looked great when I got it. Can´t complain about the looks.
  What turned me off - and that was ultimately the reason I returned them - was the fact that it showed cracks and I was not willing to pay quite a lot of money for a HP that starts to break after only a couple of months.
   
  But from what I heard Sennheiser fixed that problem - is that true?
   
  In any case I will get a secon headphone for music and overall use, besides my Beyer, and that will be the 598 or a better alternative at a similar price level.


----------



## chicolom

HD598 cracking was fixed a while ago.
   
  I haven't heard the HD598, but the PC360 is definitely more upside down "U" shaped (forward mids) than Q701.  Q701 is darker sounding, with more bass and body to the lows and mids.  When listening to music with PC360s, I think the upper mids sound too exaggerated and makes things sound a little honky.  Less of a problem when gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The mids on the HD598 are even more forward than the PC360. I felt it was brighter too.

I personally felt the PC360 is about as balanced as it gets (nothing really is noticeably emphasized over anything else), though the Q701 is clearer and a noticeably better than the PC360.

If I had to personally rate the *quantity* of the headphone balance (0 being no emphasis)

sub bass | punchy bass | mids | highs

PC 360

0 | 0.5 | 0.5 | 0

HD598

0 | 0.5 | 2 | 0

Q701

0.5 | 1 | 1 | 0.5

K701

0 | 0 | 1.5 | 1

DT990 Premium

2.5 | 1.5 | 0 | 3

DT990 Pro

2.5 | 3 | 0 | 2.5 

DT880

1.5 | 1.5 | 0 | 1.5

D7000

3 | 0.5 | 0 | 1

Pro 2900

1 | 1 | 0 | 2


----------



## l00l

This is a real noob question now, but how exactly can I hear the mids and the sub bass, or what is the difference to punchy bass.
  I mean, I know how the DT 990 pro sound and they are very bass heavy and the highs are too high for my taste. So bass and highs is something that I can identify. But how can I identify the mids and sub bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Think of sub bass as the deepest, lowest rumbles in bass, and mid bass is a bit higher in the spectrum, (typical in drum and bass music).

I'll try and see if I can find a good comparison... might not be the best...

Sub bass:

Vibrasphere: Erosion

Mid Bass:

Pendulum: Plastic World

Pay attention to the bass, you'll notice that the Pendulum track is a bit higher in pitch in general.


Mids:

Usually where vocals are. With bass and treble heavy phones, mids take a step back (obviously), so vocals sound distant, whereas bass and treble are in your face. With a headphone like the HD598, vocals tend to be more upfront compared to the bass and treble.

That's not all the factors to the sound. Lots of songs have their own balances, which is why sometimes a balanced headphone like the Q701 can sound bass heavy, and some songs can have distant vocals no matter what headphone you use.



If you don't know highs/treble, well then, quit head-fi, lol.

Oh yes, 'Pendulum - Salt in the Wounds' does both sub bass and mid bass pretty close to one another. You can easily hear the range changed between sub and mid bass for some of the effects.

I'm not an expert on saying when sub bass ends and mid bass starts, but I can usually hear the diff, because the D7000 doesn't really do much to mid bass (it's more or less in line with the mids). It's emphasized quite obviously in sub bass.

I guess the difference would be easily told apart with the XB700 and XB500, which excel in differing areas. the XB700 is really sub bass heavy, and the XB500 is mid bass heavy, though it can go quite low itself, just not as much as the Xb700.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18WfcbCRmk[/VIDEO]

A clear difference between sub and mid bass. At 1:38 is when the mid bass range kicks in a bit. Before that, it's mostly sub bass.


----------



## kellte2

New DSS2 user here.  Noticed a quirky behavior with the device and wanted to see if anyone else is experiencing what I'm hearing...
   
  When pressing the "Surround On/Off" button, does it seem like the master volume is turned down?  I'm noticing that the volume drops rather significantly after going into "Stereo Mode" and even after re-enabling "Surround Mode," I can't dial the volume back up all the way back to where it was initially set.  The only way for me to fix the lower volume is to cycle the DSS2 on/off.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





l00l said:


> Very interesting.
> I have to admit that I can´t exactly tell how the 598s sounded, all I can remember is that they soundes very, very good to my ears, at least at that time.
> Comfort is great for me on both, so no problems there.
> 
> ...


 
  What I mean is the Mids are so powerful in my case. (This won't be everyone's) I find the Mids to overpower everything. Hence why they are so beautiful with female vocalists and liquid drum and bass.
  For my ears they were anything but balanced. But again different sources, and ears all that jazz. 
   
  I am just one of those people that finds mid range overpowering in a lot of cases. Hence why the DT990pro is painful to most due to the treble range and I find them to be almost the perfect headphone. Seems all I seem to own and enjoy are brighter headphones. KSC75/DT/SuperluxHD668B. Which is a shame really.
   
  I think if you find the HD598 smooth and balanced you should definitely give them another shot with a place with a great return policy. Or save up the extra you might need for the Q701. This is the same reason I want to try the Q701 so badly that I might just bite the bullet and order them so I can compare them directly with my HD598s before they sell. If I dislike them I can always just return them or sell them super quickly online I am sure.
   
  MLE I wonder if you take a quick moment out and tell me what this song sounds like on your Q701s and Denon D7000. James Blake - Limit to your love. My Beyers love this track. The HD598 I found lacking and boring for the most part. I would really appreciate it. Thanks


----------



## l00l

Thanks for the explantation @ MLE
   
  It´s actually not a matter of saving up the money for the Q701, it´s much more that I don´t wanna pay € 300 for a headphone that costs much less in the US. I just don´t wanna do that. 
  What I might be doing, before getting the 598s again, is to get the Fiio E17 and just see what it can do in terms of EQ and overall sound to my Beyers. And if I am satisfied with what I get I´ll just stick to the Beyer. If not I can still get the 598 for a good overall headphone. I guess the E17 is a good investment in any case.


----------



## Hailin

Well let me know how it goes with the E17 as I am also interested in purchasing one as well. Ouch 300 euro bucks is high. I understand where you are coming from now.
   
  So I said screw it and pulled the trigger on the Q701s.(Only live once.) I am going to get them try them out and decide whether I need an amp or not right away. If I do it will be a choice of whether to get a E17/Matrix  external style or an internal sound card like the Asus ST. Hope I enjoy them more then the HD598s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> MLE I wonder if you take a quick moment out and tell me what this song sounds like on your Q701s and Denon D7000. James Blake - Limit to your love. My Beyers love this track. The HD598 I found lacking and boring for the most part. I would really appreciate it. Thanks




My Q701 is currently on it's way to calpis as thanks for lending me his Pro 2900, so I won't have them for awhile.

Listening to it now. That bassy breakdown, Jesus...wow. Pretty powerful with the D7000. The voice is pretty intimate and up close. It'd probably be way too close and pushy with the HD598.

I have never heard this song. I did *NOT* expect that HUGE bass section. XD It scared me actually.

Pretty damn good with the D7000. I can see how this would probably lose it's effect with a non-bassy headphone. The song is mostly acoustic, but the bass brought it all together.


----------



## VN1X

Hey all,
  
 Short time lurker, first time poster!
  
 So after doing some reading on the subject (mostly on these forums) I figured, why not join up and get a more specific answer for myself. With that being said, this has probably been asked a bunch of times before so bare with me sirs!
  
 As I said I've been reading up on quite a few headphones on Head-Fi. I've already learned more than I wanted to lol and it seems my wallet isn't going to like me very much but alas, I want excellent sound quality. Some advice already given to other members include: A: I need a proper sound card with built-in amp and B: I need a card that powers a pair of 250ohm headphones (such as the  Beyerdynamic 990 pro or the Sennheiser HD595).
  
 I'm not exactly an audiophile but definitely recognize great sound when I hear it. I'm mainly in it for gaming purposes but I suppose with the following setup I can get best of both worlds?
  
 I'd like to get the following:
 - ASUS Xonar Essence STX 
 - Beyerdynamic 990 pro  
 OR
  
 - ASUS Xonar Essence STX 
 - Sennheiser HD 595
  
 It seems these two headphones are all the rave when it comes to gaming and have been recommended by a number of members so far. 
  
 Will these provide their respective 'bang for buck' and will I hear Battlefield 3 like never before? 
  
 I'm currently rocking the Sennheiser HD515 (without a dedicated sound card). I thought about getting the ASUS Xonar DGX along with a '5.1 gaming headset (mic included) but after doing some 'research' I might as well go all out and get some proper gear. 
  
 PS I listen to all kinds of music but predominantly Metal. Just thought I'd mention that as well.
  
 *EDIT*: On other forums I've read that this sound card isn't what one would get when you're in need of full-on surround sound? Is this true?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX is a beast of a soundcard, and one I'd get. I'd say the DT990 Pro would have more of a wow factor than the Sennheisers which are very well balanced, but not very exciting in any way. Just keep in mind that the DT990 Pro's bass hits like a mack truck. It's good bass though, and not sloppy. Just a lot of it.

The STX has Dolby Headphone, so you're fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Speaking of the deeper side of bass...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBBETgrBeDc&feature=player_embedded#![/VIDEO]

When the bass kicks in at 1:11.... MY GOD. Words can't describe how it sounds with the D7000....


----------



## Neviskio

Hi everyone, I just received my hd598, and I was wondering a few things, I lurked a bit and due to my newness to this hobby I'm a bit lost still, I'm also quite slow on taking decisions usually so I definitely thought I'd ask this time around before staying months without taking a decision:

 I'm an avid gamer but not of fps, mostly mmos/rts/moba/old games, and I love music, I was kinda used on having crappy headsets like the 7h usb from steelseries (which by the way is probably the worst thing ever made, broke twice in less than 2 months, and I treat my headphones better than myself, had an old creative pair hold up for 6 years living through a damn earthquake with things falling on them so yeah -_-) so I'm now a bit confused on how to get the best out of the hd 598.

 I have an old x-fi soundcard but had a lot of issues with my old pc, mainly it went into conflict with my ati video card, and is now sitting besides me.It's an xtrememusic, which I believe it was a bad deal at the time and is now old and generally crappy, so now I'm thinking to upgrade but I'm not sure if I should buy a new x-fi titanium for gaming, or go for an asus STX and not bother with creative drivers anymore.I'm running w7 64bit so I'm worried there might be issues, and I've been told the stx is generally a better product.I was also thinking on getting a fiio e17 to supplement it, but I'm totally new to external amp/dacs and generally new to being an audiophile.

 I read many topics about stx vs x-fi and read many topics about the fiio dacs but still I don't get if it'd be worth to buy them together.Bear in mind I'm a lot sensitive about volume and usually can't bear to go past 50% on windows with a realtek card(motherboard is some gaming thing, should be an Asus Maximus IV Extreme Rev3.0 Socket 1155 Intel P67 DDR3 SATA3 USB3 ATX, not sure what realtek it builds, but for today is good enough).I was even tempted to try the usb connector of the 7h since the audio is really not that great I think with my setup...Also I've got a lot of bad mp3 but that is another issue, plus the headphones need some burn-in still.

 I still got time also to get it back to amazon after trying it with a soundcard and/or dac/amp since I should have between 10-30 days to send it back, so if I get some suggestions I could use a 1day shipping and try out the setup before committing 100%.I had considered a q701 but it costs 2x the price of the hd 598 so yeah...I'd consider doing the change only if the sound wasn't really satisfying after some tweaks 

 I'm gonna keep lurking around so maybe I can find some answers but some help would be awesome since I'm confused on some of the technical parts still...

 edit: forgot a detail, a portable dac/amp could help with my ipod, got an old video one with like 80gb of space, and I love to use it, I just hate the terrible sound quality it has usually...still haven't tried with some serious headphones though.Maybe these opens aren't the best idea but still, would be an investment for the future!


----------



## -shu

Quote: 





hailin said:


> What I mean is the Mids are so powerful in my case. (This won't be everyone's) I find the Mids to overpower everything. Hence why they are so beautiful with female vocalists and liquid drum and bass.
> For my ears they were anything but balanced. But again different sources, and ears all that jazz.
> 
> I am just one of those people that finds mid range overpowering in a lot of cases. Hence why the DT990pro is painful to most due to the treble range and I find them to be almost the perfect headphone. Seems all I seem to own and enjoy are brighter headphones. KSC75/DT/SuperluxHD668B. Which is a shame really.
> ...


 
   
  I have a Q701+Xonar STX combo and in the bass drop section I could hear and feel the sub bass. But vocals still had more emphasis than bass. The instrumental section sounded great.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

These Q701.  I plugged them into my computer because my amp hasn't come yet. Now will they sound even better when my O2 Amp arrives or does the computer suffice?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





neviskio said:


> Hi everyone, I just received my hd598, and I was wondering a few things, I lurked a bit and due to my newness to this hobby I'm a bit lost still, I'm also quite slow on taking decisions usually so I definitely thought I'd ask this time around before staying months without taking a decision:
> I'm an avid gamer but not of fps, mostly mmos/rts/moba/old games, and I love music, I was kinda used on having crappy headsets like the 7h usb from steelseries (which by the way is probably the worst thing ever made, broke twice in less than 2 months, and I treat my headphones better than myself, had an old creative pair hold up for 6 years living through a damn earthquake with things falling on them so yeah -_-) so I'm now a bit confused on how to get the best out of the hd 598.
> I have an old x-fi soundcard but had a lot of issues with my old pc, mainly it went into conflict with my ati video card, and is now sitting besides me.It's an xtrememusic, which I believe it was a bad deal at the time and is now old and generally crappy, so now I'm thinking to upgrade but I'm not sure if I should buy a new x-fi titanium for gaming, or go for an asus STX and not bother with creative drivers anymore.I'm running w7 64bit so I'm worried there might be issues, and I've been told the stx is generally a better product.I was also thinking on getting a fiio e17 to supplement it, but I'm totally new to external amp/dacs and generally new to being an audiophile.
> I read many topics about stx vs x-fi and read many topics about the fiio dacs but still I don't get if it'd be worth to buy them together.Bear in mind I'm a lot sensitive about volume and usually can't bear to go past 50% on windows with a realtek card(motherboard is some gaming thing, should be an Asus Maximus IV Extreme Rev3.0 Socket 1155 Intel P67 DDR3 SATA3 USB3 ATX, not sure what realtek it builds, but for today is good enough).I was even tempted to try the usb connector of the 7h since the audio is really not that great I think with my setup...Also I've got a lot of bad mp3 but that is another issue, plus the headphones need some burn-in still.
> ...


 
  As you can not cheaply (HRT $150) hook an external DAC to an iPod. better just to get a amplifier only, like the Fiio E11.
  I'm an Xonar fan, but I can't argue with using a Titanium HD for gaming.
  If you were using headphones that are 250-Ohm or higher, the Essence STX would be better.


----------



## HIRVI

Hi!

 I have no soundcard so which headphoens would work best without soundcard and amp.
 I demand positional audio since they are used purely for playing games on PC.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hirvi said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have no soundcard so which headphoens would work best without soundcard and amp.
> I demand positional audio since they are used purely for playing games on PC.


 
  Samson SR850 semi-open headphone.
  The Asus Xonar DG (& DGX) is a low cost but decent sound card.


----------



## HIRVI

Hello and thank for recommendation.

 However I am planning to buy headphones from Finland and afaik you can't really find Samsons from Finland unfortunately.

 However I have thought about buying one of these

 Sennheiser 518 or 558
 AD700
 PC 360

 I just don't know if they are worth it because I got no soundcard. Also I would like to have more information about 518s how they perform in games.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





hirvi said:


> Hello and thank for recommendation.
> 
> However I am planning to buy headphones from Finland and afaik you can't really find Samsons from Finland unfortunately.
> 
> ...


 

 Are Superlux available in Finland? If they are you could snag the HD668B. Same exact headphone as the Samson. Just a slightly higher ohm but nothing to worry about.
   
  Also since you are up that way you could look for Fischer Audio FA-011. You can get them from Frogbeats out of the UK and Fischer Audio website which is down at the moment. I have read they sound similar to the HD668B and Beyerdynamic DT990.
   
  Are you playing competitively or casual and what style of game. FPS / MMO / RTS? Might be able to help you further.
   
  Of your choices none are bad as you probably have read. Though the AD700 has a lot of complaints about being very bass light.
   
  With every headphone purchase though research research research then PLUNGE in. Cause you will drive yourself to a near stroke with to much research. Honestly you don't even know what you are looking for until you buy your first or second pair and even after that you will still be scratching your head going "Is this right for me?". I know that is where I am still at after 6 purchases but I could be slightly insane too.


----------



## HIRVI

Thanks for helping me out.
 I am playing FPS competitive. I can't see why you would need good pair of phones in RTS or MMO anyways.
 So super positioning, being able to hear enemies footsteps, gun sounds, reloading sounds and knowing where the enemy is, is the most important factor.
 I play games like CS/CSS, W:ET(Quake engine, openGL), QL, COD4 and then some others, I play pretty many games hah .

 Finland stock is really poor. We got no Superlux or fischer. To list, good/decent headphone brands in Finland are Sennheiser, AKG, Beyerdynamic, Denon, Koss, Pioneer. (Then of course bigger brands like Sony etc.) And the selection from those isn't really big and they are usually pretty expensive.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





hailin said:


> With every headphone purchase though research research research then PLUNGE in. Cause you will drive yourself to a near stroke with to much research. Honestly you don't even know what you are looking for until you buy your first or second pair and even after that you will still be scratching your head going "Is this right for me?". I know that is where I am still at after 6 purchases but I could be slightly insane too.


 
   
   
  You're not insane. I think this is what happens to everyone.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  For me it's now more like plunging into quicksand.  The more you struggle/resist, the more you end up sinking ($$$).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hirvi said:


> Thanks for helping me out.
> I am playing FPS competitive. I can't see why you would need good pair of phones in RTS or MMO anyways.
> So super positioning, being able to hear enemies footsteps, gun sounds, reloading sounds and knowing where the enemy is, is the most important factor.
> I play games like CS/CSS, W:ET(Quake engine, openGL), QL, COD4 and then some others, I play pretty many games hah .
> ...


 
  Can't just order Superlux from Thomann?
  What would the import fee be?


----------



## HIRVI

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Can't just order Superlux from Thomann?
> What would the import fee be?


 
   


 I'll think if I buy those.
 How about the headphones that I mentioned before? How do they work with Xonar DG card if I am going to buy it?


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> When the bass kicks in at 1:11.... MY GOD. Words can't describe how it sounds with the D7000....


 
   
  I heard the TH900 on Saturday.
   
  It was calling your name MLE....


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hirvi said:


> I'll think if I buy those.
> How about the headphones that I mentioned before? How do they work with Xonar DG card if I am going to buy it?


 
  Any headphone between 32-Ohm to 150-Ohm should work fine with the Xonar DG.
   
  Sennheiser HD558 50-Ohm
  AKG 240 & 242 55-Ohm


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> I heard the TH900 on Saturday.
> 
> It was calling your name MLE....
> 
> :evil:




I'm afraid that its calling more than just my name. More like my soul and everything I have. XD

I would never spend that much on a headphone.

When they go down to $600 on E-E, then maybe.


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

Portapro vs. KSC75?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Speaking of the deeper side of bass...When the bass kicks in at 1:11.... MY GOD. Words can't describe how it sounds with the D7000....


 
  It is so deep and clean, with just the right amount of reverb. It is just one of those wonderful bass tracks. I find a lot of chill trip-hop and dubstep have those wonderfully deep sub level sounds. 
  There is a mix on 8tracks called Lucid that I have listened to almost every night for the past couple of days cause it just rocks.
   
  Hirvi I would just try the HD558 and see if it to your liking as long as you can return it. (Most important part.) I had the HD598 and I believe they are very close with a slight difference with bass (Stronger on the HD558) and soundstage (smaller on the HD558). 
   
  And if a mic is a must then the PC360 would be the next choice. 
   
  If you must hear every little footstep with ninjapro (That is what the MW people call it right?) Try the AD700. Its all about return policies.  Unless you live in a headphone stale place like I do then it is all about taking chances and reselling with a loss. (Due to massive postage costs!!!!)


----------



## maverickronin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm afraid that its calling more than just my name. More like my soul and everything I have. XD
> I would never spend that much on a headphone.
> When they go down to $600 on E-E, then maybe.


 
   
  I'm hoping for a TH700 with the same driver and less fancy cups...


----------



## Neviskio

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> As you can not cheaply (HRT $150) hook an external DAC to an iPod. better just to get a amplifier only, like the Fiio E11.
> I'm an Xonar fan, but I can't argue with using a Titanium HD for gaming.
> If you were using headphones that are 250-Ohm or higher, the Essence STX would be better.


 


 Thanks for the help, I'm going to check out the fiio e11 then, for the soundcard I'm still a bit undecided due to my old creative driver issues, I'm basically scared it will not work as the old one did, and I'm thinking maybe an stx could be an investment for the future, I'll make my mind around this then and decide these days...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

maverickronin said:


> I'm hoping for a TH700 with the same driver and less fancy cups...




I just honestly don't want anything else with non-velour pads. I'm half tempted on getting something like the Pro 900 for when the D7000 bothers me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





neviskio said:


> Thanks for the help, I'm going to check out the fiio e11 then, for the soundcard I'm still a bit undecided due to my old creative driver issues, I'm basically scared it will not work as the old one did, and I'm thinking maybe an stx could be an investment for the future, I'll make my mind around this then and decide these days...


 
  If you get a used Xonar DX or D1 ($55), it gives you a fairly good sound card that you can plug the E11 into.
  The Xonar DX or D1 are barely ok for driving headphones on their own.
  But for $13 (on eBay)  you can get two space batteries (BL-5B) and a battery charger for the E11.
   
  But if you feel like just getting the Essence STX, everything is in one package.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I find those Superlux 668B terrible for Gaming if you use DHP or CMSS-3D.


----------



## diamount

Hello, I'm trying to choose between the 360's and HD 598 however you rate the 360's higher in the fun category yet you still say they are behind them? Could you maybe clarfiy that? As I'm looking for the better sounding one as I can get a clip-on mic from somewhere at a cheap price. They are similary priced where I plan on buying them. Plan to use them for games, movies and music.
   
  Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





diamount said:


> Hello, I'm trying to choose between the 360's and HD 598 however you rate the 360's higher in the fun category yet you still say they are behind them? Could you maybe clarfiy that? As I'm looking for the better sounding one as I can get a clip-on mic from somewhere at a cheap price. They are similary priced where I plan on buying them. Plan to use them for games, movies and music.
> 
> Thanks


 
  I heard a rumor that the PC360 is based off the older HD595.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 has really prominent mids, so the bass isn't as present in comparison to the PC360s. The PC360 is better balanced all around, though the HD598 is slightly clearer. The difference is minor, unless you want really forward vocals, which the HD598 is pretty much the undisputed king out of all the headphones I have heard.

I'd still choose the Pc360 over the HD598 due to the built in mic and volume control. Soundstage and positioning are pretty much identical. The PC360 is slightly warmer too.


----------



## HIRVI

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD598 has really prominent mids, so the bass isn't as present in comparison to the PC360s. The PC360 is better balanced all around, though the HD598 is slightly clearer. The difference is minor, unless you want really forward vocals, which the HD598 is pretty much the undisputed king out of all the headphones I have heard.
> I'd still choose the Pc360 over the HD598 due to the built in mic and volume control. Soundstage and positioning are pretty much identical. The PC360 is slightly warmer too.


 
  Would PC 360s work well on that cheap Xonar DG soundcard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see why not. They're very easy to drive.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





neviskio said:


> Thanks for the help, I'm going to check out the fiio e11 then, for the soundcard I'm still a bit undecided due to my old creative driver issues, I'm basically scared it will not work as the old one did, and I'm thinking maybe an stx could be an investment for the future, I'll make my mind around this then and decide these days...


 
  It's kind of strange. My system's played along nicely with the X-Fi Titanium HD, no driver issues...and yet reports of Creative driver issues are not uncommon.
   
  Meanwhile, the others aren't immune either. Asus driver issues led someone to make these "Unified" drivers. Realtek has had their fair share of complaints too. About the only ones whose drivers I haven't heard complaints about are HT Omega (who just use stock C-Media drivers, and whose cards are still pretty obscure).
   
  Is there some sort of curse where all sound device drivers have to suck for someone, somewhere, for inexplicable reasons?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hirvi said:


> Would PC 360s work well on that cheap Xonar DG soundcard?


 
  Yes, the Xonar DG (& DGX) can easily work with 50-Ohm (PC360) headphones.
  The DG & DGX can work well with headphones up to around 150-Ohm, and half-way decently with 250-Ohm.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It's kind of strange. My system's played along nicely with the X-Fi Titanium HD, no driver issues...and yet reports of Creative driver issues are not uncommon.
> 
> Meanwhile, the others aren't immune either. Asus driver issues led someone to make these "Unified" drivers. Realtek has had their fair share of complaints too. About the only ones whose drivers I haven't heard complaints about are HT Omega (who just use stock C-Media drivers, and whose cards are still pretty obscure).
> 
> Is there some sort of curse where all sound device drivers have to suck for someone, somewhere, for inexplicable reasons?


 
  I've had on and off problems with my X-fi's drivers.  The latest one is that sometimes after waking up my computer the sound level is really low for some reason.
   
  Having a second audio device for music listening solves so many issues with the X-Fi.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

how is the pro 900?  Any impressions MLE?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sadly no. I'd love to try them at some point in the future. Not too worried about it though. If they're like the Pro 2900 with more bass, and probably less soundstage... I think they'd be likable for me. Not sure about losing more mids though, as the Pro 2900 has some pretty recessed mids as is.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Okay. Update! So I'm still waiting on my 2 amps but like in 2 days I got my ant lion mic and the AKG Q701. I'm just using them plugged into the head phone jack on my computer at the moment. Now I know it is like at 30% of it's true potiential not amped... but DAMN! Adelle - Fire to the Rain sounds amazing in these so far!


----------



## diamount

Also another question, has anyone tried the asus phoebus yet? It's pretty damn expensive when compared to the x-fi titanium hd and apparently there are lots of issues with games. But was wondering if someone can compared them to the x-fi titanium hd.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





diamount said:


> Also another question, has anyone tried the Asus Phoebus yet? It's pretty damn expensive when compared to the X-fi Titanium HD and apparently there are lots of issues with games. But was wondering if someone can compared them to the X-fi Titanium HD.


 
  I would say hold off from buying the Phoebus right now, it might drop in price around Sept. Oct. Nov.
  Give Asus more time to improve the drivers
  Nothing wrong with getting the Titanium HD.
  The advantage of the Phoebus is it's going to be better for headphones in the 250-ohm to 600-Ohm range.
  What headphones so you use?


----------



## genclaymore

Any one here used the A900x for gaming, I planning on moving back to closed back headphones because its not quiet in this apt complex and loud police and fire sirens from being 2 mins from a hospital get old. Plus  velvet on my DT880 pro started to hurt my ears.Only reasons I looking at the A900X because it suppose to be simlar to sound signature to my DT880 pro-250. I know the A900x use pleather, but that type of padding doesn't hurt my ears.
   

  Quote:


diamount said:


> Also another question, has anyone tried the asus phoebus yet? It's pretty damn expensive when compared to the x-fi titanium hd and apparently there are lots of issues with games. But was wondering if someone can compared them to the x-fi titanium hd.


 
   
   
  The main thing is the X-FI titanium HD has op-amps that can be removed and replaced with other op-amps. Wheres the phoebus doesn't, so you will be stuck with what ever generic op-amp or op-amps that they have on the phoebus. The X-FI HD PCI-E doesn't have a headphone amp, just a headphone buffer. It can not drive low ohm headphones like AKG 70# that benefits from a amp, with its headphone buffer chip. So the phoebus only benefits is it headphone amp chip. Or if you perfer to use DHT4 headphone setting over Cmss3D headphone.
   
  If you already have a X-Fi HD Pci-e and if you have headphones that benefit from being ampped and if you use CMSS3D headphone. Then you can use a external Amp and plugged the card into the RCA outputs on the X-FI HD PCi-E. That way you get the power you need for your headphones that need it while still having the option of using CMSS3D headphone. As the Headphone setting also output sound Thu the RCA output's on the card.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> What is the make and model of the Z77 motherboard?
> The THX TruStudio itself might (maybe?) support pre-processed surround sound thru the optical port, which means you would plug in the Mix-amp and us it as a 2-channel headphone amplifier.
> What headphones are you using?
> The X-Fi should not be able to route thru the motherboard digital optical output.
> ...


 
  I have the ASRock Z77 Extreme 4. Thanks for the great responses!
   
  If I do need a Asus Xonar... is it worth getting something "better" than that card? I mostly game and am looking for quality surround sound. 

 I'm actually in the market for a quality pair of headphones. I'm trying to see what others in this thread recommend in that regard, and I'll be purchasing them very shortly. The AKG Q701s currently have my eye... or ear.
   
   
  .....
   
  Slightly off-topic from my original post... but are any of these top $200-300 headphones 'good' for laying in? I used to own a pair of Sennheisers that were great for gaming, but also allowed me to lay on a pillow with, watching HD movies. Strange question, yes


----------



## Hailin

I think the Senns may be the perfect lay down headphones due to the angled cups. The more rounded headphones might not be as comfortable. Though I am not totally sure as I use my KSC75s for bed chillin time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I have the ASRock Z77 Extreme 4. Thanks for the great responses!
> If I do need a Asus Xonar... is it worth getting something "better" than that card? I mostly game and am looking for quality surround sound.
> I'm actually in the market for a quality pair of headphones. I'm trying to see what others in this thread recommend in that regard, and I'll be purchasing them very shortly. The AKG Q701s currently have my eye... or ear.
> 
> Slightly off-topic from my original post... but are any of these top $200-300 headphones 'good' for laying in? I used to own a pair of Sennheisers that were great for gaming, but also allowed me to lay on a pillow with, watching HD movies. Strange question, yes


 
  The motherboard is using Realtek ALC898 audio chip, with some Creative labs Trueaudio software.
  I really have no idea on how good it is?
  or how well the on-board audio will drive the Q701s.
  But usually on-board DACs are of the lower cost type.
   
  You could just buy a Creative Titanium HD ($140) or Asus Xonar Essence STX ($164) and just bypass all the on-board audio.
  Not sure on how well the Titanium HD will drive the Q701s (might? need an external add-on amplifier)
  Or get the Asus Xonar DX or D1 (used $55) sound card and a nice external headphone amplifier that can make your Q701 really sing.
   
  Or just plug an external headphone amplifier straight into the motherboard's headphone output (green).
   
  What model Sennheiser are they?


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The motherboard is using Realtek ALC898 audio chip, with some Creative labs Trueaudio software.
> I really have no idea on how good it is?
> or how well the on-board audio will drive the Q701s.
> But usually on-board DACs are of the lower cost type.
> ...


 
  Before they fell apart after years of use, it was a HD 280 pro. 
   
  One thing I should note is, I already have a Astro MixAmp, if that helps to drive the Q701s? 
   
  My main thing is to get a great pair of headphones that I can use to game in surround sound  I just want to be sure I take the right approach. I also want to be slightly careful I don't overbuy either


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lay down headphones? Definitely some clip ons. KSC75/35 for me. The Senns are good because of their cup design. Big headphones don't really cut it for laying down.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lay down headphones? Definitely some clip ons. KSC75/35 for me. The Senns are good because of their cup design. Big headphones don't really cut it for laying down.


 
  Maybe I should experiment between the KSCs (which I already need for work/lifting), the 598s and the Q701s.
   
  On another note... the Q701s are $240 on Amazon.com, is that a sale? Other sites and the MSRP show it at $400


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Before they fell apart after years of use, it was a HD 280 pro.
> 
> One thing I should note is, I already have a Astro MixAmp, if that helps to drive the Q701s?
> 
> My main thing is to get a great pair of headphones that I can use to game in surround sound  I just want to be sure I take the right approach. I also want to be slightly careful I don't overbuy either


 
   
  The Astro mix-amp. does the same Dolby Virtual Headphone as the Xonar cards.
  If the Astro mix-amp. does not power the Q701s, you can all ways plug a headphone amplifier into the Mix-amps headphone output.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> Audio Technica ATH-A900X


 
  Have not gamed with them yet. but movies and music are great.
  Wings a little too week for me, slides down, rests on top of ears.


----------



## Mehdi

Thanks again Purple! 
  
 Mad Lust, seeing as you have the Q701s and a MixAmp.... does the MixAmp drive the Q701s well by itself, or did you need to use an additional amp?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

It drives it well enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've mentioned it, and its on the K701 listing: the Mixamp and the AKGs will be fine if you're not using voice chat.


----------



## Fenrisulf

How are is the AKG K240 for gaming? I don't see it specifically mentioned in the first post.
  I am looking for headphones that are good all-round, will be using it both for gaming (Starcraft 2 & Dota 2 competitively, and also single player games like Mass effect 3, etc) and music. Price range is from 80-150ish, somewhat flexible, can go up to around 200 but would rather not.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Astro mix-amp. does the same Dolby Virtual Headphone as the Xonar cards.
> If the Astro mix-amp. does not power the Q701s, you can all ways plug a headphone amplifier into the Mix-amps headphone output.


 
   
  Signal Quality is universes in difference, plus reverb on the Mixamp is actually hindering soundstage/3D-Illusion if you compare with a STX.


----------



## Mehdi

Between the STs and the Titaniums, which is the more recommended card? 
   
  My understanding is that the SQ of the STs is better, but the Titaniums are better for gaming for games that support EAX5+. This question is within the context of virtual surround sound for headphones being the main focus. Which of course means, this comparison would also be between Dolby Headphones versus Creative's [size=small]CMSS technology.[/size]


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Between the STs and the Titaniums, which is the more recommended card?
> 
> My understanding is that the SQ of the STs is better, but the Titaniums are better for gaming for games that support EAX5+. This question is within the context of virtual surround sound for headphones being the main focus. Which of course means, this comparison would also be between Dolby Headphones versus Creative's [size=small]CMSS technology.[/size]


 
  Audio quality wise, the cards are about equal.
  The STX's (Essence) real advantage is powering headphones in the 150-Ohm to 600-Ohm range and easier to just switch between all the analog ports.
  The Creative T-HD (Titanium HD) can have a headphone amp. hooked up to the RCA port and pass surround sound thru them (sorry Essence).
  Both cards can pass surround sound thru the digital outputs.
  Creative is big on game support for their cards (EAX and other such stuff).
  Games do not come with direct EAX support as much as they use to.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Signal Quality is universes in difference, plus reverb on the Mixamp is actually hindering soundstage/3D-Illusion if you compare with a STX.


 
   
  I'd like some clarification there.
   
  We all know the Mixamp only supports DH2 mode for Dolby Headphone, which adds a bit of reverb. Do you use the Xonar cards in DH1 mode (which doesn't add any reverb at all)?
   


mehdi said:


> Between the STs and the Titaniums, which is the more recommended card?
> 
> My understanding is that the SQ of the STs is better, but the Titaniums are better for gaming for games that support EAX5+. This question is within the context of virtual surround sound for headphones being the main focus. Which of course means, this comparison would also be between Dolby Headphones versus Creative's [size=small]CMSS technology.[/size]


 
   
  I don't know if the actual sound quality on the Essence cards is actually better to an audible extent, but it's said that the Titanium HD has a "warmer" sound signature with a bit more bass emphasis by comparison. I can believe that, since the bass does seem a bit punchier than the X-Fi Prelude and X-Fi Forte I had been using prior.
   
  The reason why I generally recommend X-Fi cards for anyone who cares about old games that use the DirectSound3D or OpenAL APIs is twofold:
   

 EAX 3/4/5 support. The most DS3DGX or Xear3D on a C-Media card might do is try to emulate those higher versions, but it probably won't sound as intended. Do note that practically everything has proper EAX 1/2 support, though.
 CMSS-3D Headphone is capable of using the 3D positional information the DS3D and OAL APIs provide to provide the user with a true 3D binaural mix, very much like Aureal did with A3D and their Vortex sound card chipset back in the late 1990s. By comparison, Dolby Headphone would have to have that 3D information downmixed to 7.1 before it applies its binaural effects, so you lose all sense of height, and sounds seem to jump between speaker positions a bit more instead of panning smoothly, especially toward the rear. (Not surprisingly, this general emphasis on 7.1 surround sound in gaming at the expense of true 3D sound solutions is a constant point of irritation for me.)
   
  But if the only games you play all use XAudio2 + X3DAudio or FMOD Ex anyway (software-processed, limited to 7.1 at the most), then those advantages largely go out the window and you might be a little more satisfied with a C-Media card like a Xonar Essence STX or an HT Omega Claro Halo, especially if you plan to make use of the built-in headphone amplifiers at less cost than buying an external, dedicated amp. (Such amplifiers don't do me any good now that I've taken the route of Stax and electrostatics in general, though; that's something you may want to consider as you plan your audio upgrade path.)


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'd like some clarification there.
> 
> We all know the Mixamp only supports DH2 mode for Dolby Headphone, which adds a bit of reverb. Do you use the Xonar cards in DH1 mode (which doesn't add any reverb at all)?
> 
> ...


 
  That's a very informative post, thank you!
   
  Generally speaking, I'll want to play the newer games that are being released. As such, since most ( if not all ) have moved to software processing, then it does seem like the EAX cards are a bit pointless? 
   
  On your point about the Headphone amps, I thought the THDs supported up to 600ohm?


----------



## NerevarReborn

Hey, guys.  I wanted to ask for some advice on what to buy.  I've never owned anything beyond very basic headphones and headsets, but I have always wanted to upgrade.  From the original guide and a lot of the comments, I really wanted to get the Sennheiser PC 360s and the Mixamp to go with them.  However, I was wondering if the Sennheiser X 320 made for the Xbox 360 (I'll be playing on the 360 mostly, and maybe some PC gaming) or even the Tritton AX 720 might be a better choice for someone just starting out?  I searched around a bit, but I haven't been able to find much on the X 320s and the 720s had some good things said about them.  I really appreciate this thread.  All the posts have really helped me to narrow down my headset choices.  Thanks Mad Lust Envy and everyone else.  It's a big help.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> That's a very informative post, thank you!
> 
> Generally speaking, I'll want to play the newer games that are being released. As such, since most ( if not all ) have moved to software processing, then it does seem like the EAX cards are a bit pointless?
> 
> On your point about the Headphone amps, I thought the THDs supported up to 600ohm?


 
  The T-HD (Titanium HD) does not come with a true headphone amplifier, but still does a good job of driving headphones.
  I would "guess" around 150-Ohm to 200-Ohm you should do fine with the T-HD, at 250-ohm the T-HD is still decent(?).
  At around 250-Ohms (and higher) the Xonar Essence should be doing a better job of driving headphones.
  (below 250-Ohms the Essence is still good at driving headphones).


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





nerevarreborn said:


> Hey, guys.  I wanted to ask for some advice on what to buy.  I've never owned anything beyond very basic headphones and headsets, but I have always wanted to upgrade.  From the original guide and a lot of the comments, I really wanted to get the Sennheiser PC 360s and the Mixamp to go with them.  However, I was wondering if the Sennheiser X 320 made for the Xbox 360 (I'll be playing on the 360 mostly, and maybe some PC gaming) or even the Tritton AX 720 might be a better choice for someone just starting out?  I searched around a bit, but I haven't been able to find much on the X 320s and the 720s had some good things said about them.  I really appreciate this thread.  All the posts have really helped me to narrow down my headset choices.  Thanks Mad Lust Envy and everyone else.  It's a big help.


 
   
  From the specs available: X320 (http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-X320-Xbox-Headset-360/dp/B005JVKAY6) vs AX 720 (http://www.amazon.com/Surround-Xbox-360-PC-Playstation-3/dp/B002ZS6Y64)
  The Senn X320 looks like terrible value for money. It appears to be a stereo-only headset, no virtual surround.
  In contrast, the Tritton has a processor for virtual surround--which is what this entire thread is about--and _is cheaper than the Sennheiser X320_.


----------



## NerevarReborn

Thanks! I appreciate the advice. I wasn't entirely sure if the X 320 would support virtual surround or not. I should have been able to figure that out at least. I'll take it off my list. Thanks again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PC-320-Headphone-Black/dp/B006RF9HX8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340343649&sr=8-1&keywords=pc320

This one would be the better option, as it doesn't. Have a built in amplifier, so it will work with the Mixamp or any other amp. Haven't heard them though.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Have not gamed with them yet. but movies and music are great.
> Wings a little too week for me, slides down, rests on top of ears.


 

 How are there sound imaging?


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





nerevarreborn said:


> Hey, guys.  I wanted to ask for some advice on what to buy.  I've never owned anything beyond very basic headphones and headsets, but I have always wanted to upgrade.  From the original guide and a lot of the comments, I really wanted to get the Sennheiser PC 360s and the Mixamp to go with them.  However, I was wondering if the Sennheiser X 320 made for the Xbox 360 (I'll be playing on the 360 mostly, and maybe some PC gaming) or even the Tritton AX 720 might be a better choice for someone just starting out?  I searched around a bit, but I haven't been able to find much on the X 320s and the 720s had some good things said about them.  I really appreciate this thread.  All the posts have really helped me to narrow down my headset choices.  Thanks Mad Lust Envy and everyone else.  It's a big help.


 
   
  You are better off just buying a stereo headset + a mixamp. If you don´t have the money - or just don´t wanna spend it right now - get a decent stereo headset for now and buy the mixamp later.
  I had the AX720s and returned them since I thought they sounded pretty lousy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> That's a very informative post, thank you!
> 
> Generally speaking, I'll want to play the newer games that are being released. As such, since most ( if not all ) have moved to software processing, then it does seem like the EAX cards are a bit pointless?
> 
> On your point about the Headphone amps, I thought the THDs supported up to 600ohm?


 
   
  It's rendered EAX support pointless for anything based in software, yes. It's pretty easy to do reverb/chorus/occlusion/etc. effects in software without too much stress on modern CPUs. (I should stress that my issue with audio in modern games is primarily the lack of a binaural mixing option, and not the lack of support for EAX at all.)
   
  As for the headphone amps, taking PurpleAngel's advice would be the safe bet, but it should be noted that impedance is NOT sensitivity, which is the true measure of how easy a headphone is to drive. For instance, the AKG K701 has a low impedance, but also low sensitivity, thus it's unwise to run it without decent amplification.
   
  If you're wondering how good the Titanium HD's built-in amp circuit (technically, all analog audio outputs are amplified in some manner) is, I can't tell you unless someone's willing to lend me some really demanding dynamic/moving-coil and orthodynamic headphones along with a good dedicated headphone amp that's proven to drive them properly, which I can compare against.


----------



## Mehdi

purpleangel said:


> The T-HD (Titanium HD) does not come with a true headphone amplifier, but still does a good job of driving headphones.
> I would "guess" around 150-Ohm to 200-Ohm you should do fine with the T-HD, at 250-ohm the T-HD is still decent(?).
> At around 250-Ohms (and higher) the Xonar Essence should be doing a better job of driving headphones.


 
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It's rendered EAX support pointless for anything based in software, yes. It's pretty easy to do reverb/chorus/occlusion/etc. effects in software without too much stress on modern CPUs. (I should stress that my issue with audio in modern games is primarily the lack of a binaural mixing option, and not the lack of support for EAX at all.)
> 
> As for the headphone amps, taking PurpleAngel's advice would be the safe bet, but it should be noted that impedance is NOT sensitivity, which is the true measure of how easy a headphone is to drive. For instance, the AKG K701 has a low impedance, but also low sensitivity, thus it's unwise to run it without decent amplification.
> 
> If you're wondering how good the Titanium HD's built-in amp circuit (technically, all analog audio outputs are amplified in some manner) is, I can't tell you unless someone's willing to lend me some really demanding dynamic/moving-coil and orthodynamic headphones along with a good dedicated headphone amp that's proven to drive them properly, which I can compare against.


 
   
  Oh man, looks like I got more thinking to do then and should cancel my THD and Q701 amazon order 
   
  From what I'm gathering here, I have two options to do this right...

 *THD + external amp + Q701*
 For this, I may be able to use my MixAmp that I already own OR I'll want to get another external amp which will cost me a good $100-200?
  
 *ST/STX + Q701*
   
  Of course, my other option here is to consider a headphone other than the Q701 that is less, high maintanance  Or, I let amazon deliver it to me and I see how it is. Alternatively, I can order the 598s as well (which i think dont need an external amp to drive?) to use to compare: Does the Q701 sound good semi-driven, compared to the 598?
   
  If I do end up compromising by not fully driving the Q701, what would I be losing along the way? Volume of course. What about SQ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> How are there sound imaging?


 
  Just watched some Amadeus on Blu-ray, audio was very nice. like in a movie theater.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Oh man, looks like I got more thinking to do then and should cancel my THD and Q701 amazon order
> 
> From what I'm gathering here, I have two options to do this right...
> 
> ...


 
  On eBay, external add-on solid state headphone amplifiers (AC powered) start at around $65 (shipped from China).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Of course, my other option here is to consider a headphone other than the Q701 that is less, high maintanance  Or, I let amazon deliver it to me and I see how it is. Alternatively, I can order the 598s as well (which i think dont need an external amp to drive?) to use to compare: Does the Q701 sound good semi-driven, compared to the 598?
> 
> If I do end up compromising by not fully driving the Q701, what would I be losing along the way? Volume of course. What about SQ?


 
   
  Q701 semi-driven mainly has a little smaller soundstage (and less seperation), a little more muddiness, and a little looser sound.  Probably a smaller difference between driven and semi-driven than you think though.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Q701 semi-driven mainly has a little smaller soundstage (and less seperation), a little more muddiness, and a little looser sound.  Probably a smaller difference between driven and semi-driven than you think though.


 
  That makes me very happy. I just didn't want to be stuck with a sub-par ( and sub-par compared to other headphones this price range) listening experience, until and up to, when I get a amp paired with the Q701. Which I definitely plan to do eventually. I just don't want to blow too much money at once.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the Q701 sounds fantastic off the NFB5 which feeds like two watts to the Q701. Yet, the E9 which only reaches a watt to a 16ohm headphone (probably not even half a watt at 64ohms in the Q701), sounds fantastic in it's own right for the price.

To anyone looking at the E9, I'll be completely honest: the E9 likes neutral to slightly warm headphones (which the Q701 is). You got a LOT of bang for buck with neutral to warm headphones and the E9. The D7000 sounds fantastic off it.

Bright headphones will sound pretty harsh off it, which is why more expensive amps that flesh out the sound will be better than the E9 for BRIGHT headphones no matter what.


----------



## genclaymore

Yea I end up changing the op-amps in my E9. tho my E9 had a op-amp socket before they removed it from newer E9 and place the op-amp directy to the PCB without the dip-8. Because it was the first thing  I did as soon I got the right screw driver for the E9. Which was opening it and changing it OPA2134 Op-amp/


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Oh man, looks like I got more thinking to do then and should cancel my THD and Q701 amazon order
> 
> From what I'm gathering here, I have two options to do this right...
> 
> ...


 
   
  If you've already placed the order, I say just let it go through and at least try the gear you've ordered for a bit before returning it. Only then will you know if it's truly satisfactory or not.
   
  The Mixamp probably isn't that good of a dedicated headphone amplifier (people have already mentioned hissing at higher volume settings), but it should work in a pinch if what Mad Lust Envy says is true about the game/voice chat mixing knob (which you don't need for PC use) being set all the way to the game side. At least you have something to compare the Q701 without a dedicated amp against.


----------



## genclaymore

Also dont forget to swap out the generic Amp thats in the X-FI HD PCi-E with either 2x LME49720NA's or 2x LT1213ACN8's. As Jrcs are in the X-Fi HD PCi-E's i/v socket.


----------



## harryyeo

This thread is truly dangerous for my wallet, all the talk about Q701 makes me really want to buy one to try gaming with it while I have FA-011 still being used.


----------



## calpis

Hey guys, the Q701 and DH work really well together. Like really well. Just thought you guys should know.
   
  Thanks MLE for the loaners


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why would you doubt me? 

But honestly, I'm just glad others can chime in and verify what I've said of the Q701s. I know a lot of you take what I say into consideration when spending serious cash, so I breathe a sigh of relief when my opinions have some merit, even if its a little.

Man, after having heard the Pro 2900s, I really wanna try the Pro 900. If it has the same type of bass, just more of it... I WANT them. I don't care about the reduced soundstage. I just want an alternative to the D7000 for music when the D7000 pleather gets hot and sticky. Though I doubt the bass qould be similar to the Pro 2900, since I bet that Pro 2900's bass is so great quality-wise due to the open design of the headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





harryyeo said:


> This thread is truly dangerous for my wallet, all the talk about Q701 makes me really want to buy one to try gaming with it while I have FA-011 still being used.


 
   
  Yeah, I try to limit my forays into the other sections of Head-Fi to resist the temptation to spend more money. Technolust is the bane of my wallet...
   
  At least look at it this way: you don't need a specialized, expensive amplifier (or a transformer box and a speaker power amp, like a huge A/V receiver) just for the Q701 to work at all!


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Head-fi is a temptation period...lol.  But I can't help fallen in love with her... sigh...


----------



## Zeys

Hey guys, I'm looking to purchased new headphones for competitive gaming as well as for music! I'm a complete audio nub, hoping you pros could help me out! I have no budget constraint and already own a Titanium HD.

 Would I still need to purchase an amplifier along with a new headphone ? What I'm really concern about is I were to take advatange of the Titanium HD + Amps when Im gaming at home, will there be a drastic change in sound if I were to play at an LAN event or amplifiers are easily installable without the need of drivers etc.

 Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zeys said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking to purchased new headphones for competitive gaming as well as for music! I'm a complete audio nub, hoping you pros could help me out! I have no budget constraint and already own a Titanium HD.
> Would I still need to purchase an amplifier along with a new headphone ? What I'm really concern about is I were to take advantage of the Titanium HD + Amps when I'm gaming at home, will there be a drastic change in sound if I were to play at an LAN event or amplifiers are easily installable without the need of drivers etc.


 
  You do not need extra drivers for adding a headphone amplifier to the T-HD (Titanium HD)
  You do not have to use an external add-on headphone amplifier with the T-HD, It's just preferred.
  The "problem" with the T-HD's headphone amplifier is the high impedance 35-Ohm(?).
  Some people plug their headphone straight into the T-HD and are happy with the sound.
  Might help to know what headphone your planning on using with the T-HD?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





zeys said:


> Hey guys, I'm looking to purchased new headphones for competitive gaming as well as for music! I'm a complete audio nub, hoping you pros could help me out! I have no budget constraint and already own a Titanium HD.
> 
> Would I still need to purchase an amplifier along with a new headphone ? What I'm really concern about is I were to take advatange of the Titanium HD + Amps when Im gaming at home, will there be a drastic change in sound if I were to play at an LAN event or amplifiers are easily installable without the need of drivers etc.
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  You don't _need_ to use a headphone amplifier for a new headphone per se, but it may be necessary to get the absolute most out of more demanding headphones.
   
  There is one exception: electrostatics. Those actually do require specialized amplification to function at all, and I see it as a big reason why most people haven't tried Stax or the Koss ESP/950 yet, especially when most of the 'stat amps cost as much as the headphones themselves.
   
  Also, what kind of amplifier would need drivers at all? They only work with analog signals in the first place (barring DAC/amp combos, but those are obviously two devices in one).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Planar Magnetics also need some really strong amping, aside from the HE400 which seems to have found a way to be easily driven.

Try using the HE-4, 5, or 6 without an amp. They'll spit on your face...quietly.


----------



## Zeys

Alright, what amps/headphones would you guys recommend to pair with the T-HD? It'll be using it mainly for competitive gaming and music.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Hey Mad Lust I need help. This is my set up. Xbox > Mix Amp Pro > O2 amp > AKG Q701 headphones. Am I doing this wrong? I can't seem to get very good positioning. Even when I turn on the dolby headphones on my mix amp, I seem to get an overhead sensation; rather when it's off I seem to be able to tell if a sound is behind me or to the left.
   
  It seems to me either I had the amps reversed or someone messed up the wiring in my mix amp pro.


----------



## calpis

Try your setup without the O2 and see if you can hear the positional sounds. Also, make sure you're sound settings on your xbox is set to dolby digital. You might be playing in stereo and just not realizing it. And if you're playing any COD games that you have SitRep Pro or Ninja Pro to help you hear footsteps easier.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Hey Mad Lust I need help. This is my set up. Xbox > Mix Amp Pro > O2 amp > AKG Q701 headphones. Am I doing this wrong? I can't seem to get very good positioning. Even when I turn on the dolby headphones on my mix amp, I seem to get an overhead sensation; rather when it's off I seem to be able to tell if a sound is behind me or to the left.
> 
> It seems to me either I had the amps reversed or someone messed up the wiring in my mix amp pro.


 
   
  Your using only the optical cable right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, try without the O2 first.

Make sure you're using an optical cable. 

Make sure the XBox is set to Dolby Digital 5.1

Make sure the in game sound settings is NOT set to stereo, headphone, headphone surround, or tv. It should be theater, home theater, etc. Remember, the Mixamp is taking a real surround signal and converting it for your headphones, so anything in game shouldn't be set for headphones whatsoever.

If you get it working without the O2, THEN hook up a 3.5mm male/male between the Mixamp's headphone out to the O2's line in.


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> I'm having a problem with my setup and I'm hoping someone here can help me. This is my signal chain:
> Xbox 360 Slim
> Optical cord
> Tritton Ax720 decoder box
> ...


 


 Just to update this post.
   
  I have returned and replaced the entire chain besides the Xbox itself and the problem persists.
   
  Short of returning the Xbox, the last option I see is to bypass the Xbox Slim's optical port altogether and get a A/V Optical adapter.  Maybe the problem lies in the optical port.  Opinions?
   
  The best way I can describe the noise is an intermittent "psssssst."  Like someone is whispering for you to come over.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, that sounds more like a problem with the CAL itself. Perhaps a bad driver? The AX720 decoder box itself can be hissy...


----------



## Jay 23

hey guys I was just wondering what xbox 360 headsets should i buy with a $100 budget?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Thanks guy. It was the audio settings on the xbox and game, I forgot to set it all over to surround effects, etc/whatever. I was playing on stereo and on surround headphone/headset. 
   
  Using a TOS cable btw. Which youtube test should I use? 5.1 surround test? Maybe a dolby HP test?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Just to update this post.
> 
> I have returned and replaced the entire chain besides the Xbox itself and the problem persists.
> 
> ...


 

 I sort of doubt the optical port was damaged.  Unless the jack has popped out of either the xbox or the AX720. 
   
  The CALs are low impedance, you may be able to hear the hissing on the AX720.  It wouldn't be intermittent though, it would be constant low level hissing. 
   
  AD700s (32 ohms + lots of treble) were pretty bad combination with the DSS. Annoying hiss if you were at a quite part of the game.  Q701s are great with their darker-and-harder-to-drive-ness.  They're dead quiet when the game is also quiet. 
   
   
   
  You could try moving the setup over to a DVD player and testing it out on the DVD players optical jack. 

 If the problem is fixed, it may be the xbox's optical jack is screwed up.
 If the problem persists (and you already tried using another optical cable) it's probably in the AX720 somewhere.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I sort of doubt the optical port was damaged.  Unless the jack has popped out of either the xbox or the AX720.
> 
> The CALs are low impedance, you may be able to hear the hissing on the AX720.  It wouldn't be intermittent though, it would be constant low level hissing.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hmm.. He's using an Xbox Slim correct? I myself am using an XBOX 360 Elite. Bought it back in 07/08 whenever it came out. So could my problem be that my xbox is just too old or outdated? It doesn't actually have a TOS cable jack on the xbox itself. I have to use the AV/RF adapter or w/e it is, that cable has the TOS port on it. 
   
   
  This is my setup at the moment.
   
  XBOX 360 Elite > XBOX 360 "Audio Adapter" > TOS cable > Astro Mix Amp > 3.5mm male to male > Object 2 Amp > AKG Q701 headphones.
   
  I think maybe the mix amp is miss wired because no matter my setup, I have better position when my Dolby Headphone is turned *off* then when it is *on*.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ninjasushi2 said:


> Thanks guy. It was the audio settings on the xbox and game, I forgot to set it all over to surround effects, etc/whatever. I was playing on stereo and on surround headphone/headset.
> 
> Using a TOS cable btw. Which youtube test should I use? 5.1 surround test? Maybe a dolby HP test?




None. Youtube videos won't properly work on the Mixamp. The vids I posted were already pre-mixed with Dolby Headphone, and don't need any amp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Planar Magnetics also need some really strong amping, aside from the HE400 which seems to have found a way to be easily driven.
> Try using the HE-4, 5, or 6 without an amp. They'll spit on your face...quietly.


 
   
  Can't say I've ever used an orthodynamic/planar-magnetic headphone before, though the Fostex T50RP tempts me every now and then (especially in its modified incarnations).
   
  However, at least you can plug those headphones into most audio equipment and hear _something_, so the barrier to entry is still a bit lower in a sense.
   
  Actually, now that I think about it...if the FiiO E9 and Objective2 live up to the hype, competent dynamic/ortho amps are a hell of a lot cheaper too. I don't think I've seen an electrostatic amp for less than $300, even DIY designs like the ExStatA, unless you count the lucky gits scoring SR-Lambda Pro + SRM-1/Mk2 Pro setups for just $400 shipped.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> None. Youtube videos won't properly work on the Mixamp. The vids I posted were already pre-mixed with Dolby Headphone, and don't need any amp.


 
  Oh.. ok. So your best advice would be to let my headphones have a full burn in and then test it in a private game with a couple of buddies?


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

I'm also thinking about getting the Denon D2000 since the D7000 are a bit expensive. Ive seen that the differences in D2000 vs D5000 are subtle, and that from D5000 to D7000 is even subtler (is that a word ?.)
   
  I have to say the only reason I'm a bit hesitant on buying the D2000 is because I don't get the awesome-looking wooden cups


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Hmm.. He's using an Xbox Slim correct? I myself am using an XBOX 360 Elite. Bought it back in 07/08 whenever it came out. So could my problem be that my xbox is just too old or outdated? It doesn't actually have a TOS cable jack on the xbox itself. I have to use the AV/RF adapter or w/e it is, that cable has the TOS port on it.
> 
> 
> This is my setup at the moment.
> ...


 
  You're sure you turned on Dolby Surround on the Xbox? Astro Mix Amp with DH sounds AMAZING for, even when using crappier headphones.


----------



## Mehdi

My Q701s and Titanium HD should be arriving tomorrow. 

 I've additionally decided to order the following:
  * Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium - ~$200 *amp needed*
  * Ultrasone Pro 550 - ~$150 *no amp needed*
  * Headphone Amplifier ( need a suggestion here, preferably something sold directly by Amazon.com ... I wanted to get the E9, but its only fullfilled by Amazon, making returns potentially hard? )
   
  So, my reasoning is quite simple. Given I'm a noob, and frankly after reading a billion threads and getting tons of advice from folks, I really just want to take what I believe are the "best" suggestions... and try them myself. 

 I will use the Q701 as my "baseline" along with my MixAmp. 
  I will then follow this up with the Q701 plus a dedicated Amp. I will then note the improvements I see.
  I will then try the DT990s with the dedicated Amp. I will compare how it sounds to the Q701s, in relation to games, movies and music. Is the more "bassiness" of these worth it over the Q701s? We'll see.
  I will then try on the Ulrasone Pro 550s to answer the question -- compared to the "better" headphones that require amping, how does this thing compare? This will help me understand whether I can justify a few hundred extra dollars for better equipment.
   
   
  I will be testing with the following:
   
*Games*
  Bioshock - Perhaps my favorite sounding game when it comes to "mood"
  Counter Strike Source - When it comes to positional cues, this is probably the best game to test with I would figure
  Battlefield 3 - Position cues mixed with BASS from all the carnage taking place in the game
   
*Movies*
  Inception
  Iron Man
   
*Music*
  Dub Step
  Vocal Trance
  Modern Rock (various)
  Hip Hop (various)
   

 I will then proceed to turn the two headphones that don't fit the bill, along with the amp. If my headphone of choice requires an amp, I'll invest in a quality one that I'd expect to last few years. 
   
  This is all with the assumption, based on other threads, that Amazon is pretty lenient with return policies. 
   
*tldr:* After getting my Q701 tomorrow, I'll be ordering two more mics and an amp to test how they compare to it.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> My Q701s and Titanium HD should be arriving tomorrow.
> 
> I've additionally decided to order the following:
> * Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium - ~$200 *amp needed*
> ...


 
   
  All that is dandy and all but all you need is this set up.
   
  AKG Q701
  Object 2 Amp (Order with AC adapter)
  Mix Amp Pro from Astro
  Ant Lion Mod Mic
  3.5mm male to male cable
   
  Set up, let them burn in, enjoy.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> All that is dandy and all but all you need is this set up.
> 
> AKG Q701
> Object 2 Amp (Order with AC adapter)
> ...


 
  I agree, "academically" based on what I've been reading on this site. However, I want to be sure about that fact which can only be done if I experience the difference myself.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I agree, "academically" based on what I've been reading on this site. However, I want to be sure about that fact which can only be done if I experience the difference myself.


 
   
  NinjaSushi2: also don't forget that Mehdi is gaming on PC. Not every soundcard will be able to output the surround sound optically for a MixAmp to use (in fact, I've heard that most on-board sound chips won't) so it's not as simple as getting a MixAmp and some headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Items fulfilled by Amazon is like buying straight off Amazon, as they hold the seller's stock in Amazon's warehouses. 

I have had zero issues returning items that weren't directly sold by Amazon, but fulfilled by them.


----------



## ChileConCarney

Got my CAL a week or two ago and I thought I would share my first impressions (still waiting on my new laptop, 7970 backorders and whatnot so nothing about gaming yet) 
   
  As far as comfort goes- they're great and don't leave my ears sore after long use. While they do trap heat and will make your ears sweat with heavy activity or warm weather, you won't really notice it until you take them off.
   
  Sound is great- This is my first pair of "quality" headphones and I now hear a clear difference in quality between HD and regular Definition videos when using youtube to find music (I did not before).*
  *note i've noticed some sort of distortion sound in a couple different instances. It sound like a cross between a rainstick and lightly scratching velcrow (seems to only affect smartphone so most likely not a problem or shortcoming of the headphones but rather limitation of device.)
   
  Build Quality/Durability-I am a bit concerned about not being able to change out the headphone cord as it looks to be not much (if at all) better than ipod earbuds in durability, and i would need to send the whole thing to be repaired if something happened rather than receiving a replacement cord. Also I often fully extend them so i can carry them around my neck ( just barely but still comfortably) and i have to be careful when doing so because i feel like they would effortlessly snap if i tried to extend them not knowing they are already extended as far as possible.
   
  So far seem to be great entry level headphones that can be used on the go THANKS ENVY


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Hmm.. He's using an Xbox Slim correct? I myself am using an XBOX 360 Eli
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  An old xbox don't matter.  All of them do Dolby Digital 5.1.  If you have an old one, you use this,which I assume is what your already using.
   
  Dolby Headphone should sound like this > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ApNLMmeAs
  You have to listen to that on your computer, in stereo, with headphones.  It's already premixed.
   
  If it doesn't sound like that ^, something is wrong.  If it does sound like that, but you still have bad positioning, your screwed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
   
   
  The mixamp only works when it's receiving a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal over optical (disregard coax for the moment).  No other combination will give you correct Dolby Headphone sound. 
   
  It will screw up if:

 Your not using optical
 You have the xbox set to output _anything _other than Dolby Digital 5.1 (such as digital stereo)
 The xbox starts outputting a signal other than DD 5.1, such as watching stereo video streams on the dashboard. 
   
  It will switch to Dolby Pro Logic, which is a 2 channel -> 5.1 interpolation, whenever it doesn't have a 5.1 DD signal. 
   
  Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Oh.. ok. So your best advice would be to let my headphones have a full burn in and then test it in a private game with a couple of buddies?


 
   
  Burn in has absolutely nothing to do with whether the surround sound is working, so I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I don't believe in burn in. I believe in you yourself adjusting/getting used to the headphone's sound.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> NinjaSushi2: also don't forget that Mehdi is gaming on PC. Not every soundcard will be able to output the surround sound optically for a MixAmp to use (in fact, I've heard that most on-board sound chips won't) so it's not as simple as getting a MixAmp and some headphones.


 
  I didnt know it was for PC, screw the amps then! Get a Xonar soundcard and it will power the HP too.
   
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZQ8YC/ref=asc_df_B001EZQ8YC2069721?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001EZQ8YC&hvpos=1o1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1958412046374491908&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Thanks for the heads up! Yeah, I even cleaned my ears to get a better sound. lol


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I will be testing with the following:
> 
> *Games*
> Bioshock - Perhaps my favorite sounding game when it comes to "mood"
> Counter Strike Source - When it comes to positional cues, this is probably the best game to test with I would figure


 
   
  You're definitely making use of that X-Fi DSP for sure. Bioshock uses OpenAL and EAX (version 5, I'm guessing), and Counter-Strike: Source may support DirectSound3D through the Miles Sound System that every Source engine game uses.
   
Have you looked through this post to set up CS:S for optimal positional sound? (The really important parts are pointing ALchemy to the CS:S root directory and setting "snd_legacy_surround 1" in the console.)
   
  Also, with as much as you're spending on headphones (even if you're planning on returning most of that), you might even be able to score a Stax setup for that much! (But I'm not sure if a typical Lambda-series headphone's bass presentation would suit you...electrostatics aren't known for visceral impact, though the sound is very much there, and it goes deep. EQ helps really bring it out.)


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Do you think Fallout 3 would be a good game to test my sound system on?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> An old xbox don't matter.  All of them do Dolby Digital 5.1.  If you have an old one, you use this,which I assume is what your already using.


 
   
  I thought "If you have an old Xbox, use this!"
   





   
  Yes, there's a Toslink S/PDIF output on that breakout box. Yes, it also supports Dolby Digital for every game.
   
  The original Xbox gets no love...


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I thought "If you have an old Xbox, use this!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  lol na i'm already using my cable.
   
  Hey Fallout 3 or Boarderlands? Can't wait for 2!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The original Xbox gets no love...


 
   
  Do you remember those amazing 480p graphics?!!!
   
  4 8 0 p


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I didnt know it was for PC, screw the amps then! Get a Xonar soundcard and it will power the HP too.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EZQ8YC/ref=asc_df_B001EZQ8YC2069721?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B001EZQ8YC&hvpos=1o1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1958412046374491908&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=


 
  I might *try* it, as part of this experiment. The thing is though, sound cards come and go, while a good amp will stick with me for a long time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico that link you posted sounds more like Dolby Headphone on Room 3. More distant with more echo than what I'm used to with the Mixamp.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico that link you posted sounds more like Dolby Headphone on Room 3. More distant with more echo than what I'm used to with the Mixamp.


 
  My mix amp's DH is very acousticy and echoy too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It is, but not as much as that video. That sounds like room 3, while the Mixamp uses room 2, which isn't as processed sounding.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Do you remember those amazing 480p graphics?!!!
> 
> 4 8 0 p


 
  I'm so old, that when I first started computer gaming (Star Trek 1980), you typed your "ship's orders" into the computer (DOS like screen) and you got a print out to show your moves.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico that link you posted sounds more like Dolby Headphone on Room 3. More distant with more echo than what I'm used to with the Mixamp.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It is, but not as much as that video. That sounds like room 3, while the Mixamp uses room 2, which isn't as processed sounding.


 
   
  That's just the game.  That's how Crysis 2 sounds: really wet reverby.  In the comment section the uploader actually said he used DH1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I wish the mode were switchable on the mixmap.  Although I don't think DH3 should ever really be used, it would be nice to switch between DH1 and DH2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What, DH1? Jesus, that game sounds terrible!


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It is, but not as much as that video. That sounds like room 3, while the Mixamp uses room 2, which isn't as processed sounding.


 
  What does the room mean?
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What, DH1? Jesus, that game sounds terrible!


 
  huh? What is DH1, 2, 3? 
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm so old, that when I first started computer gaming (Star Trek 1980), you typed your "ship's orders" into the computer (DOS like screen) and you got a print out to show your moves.


 
   
  I remember typing games, all the rage in the mid 90s on internet chat rooms. lol
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That's just the game.  That's how Crysis 2 sounds: really wet reverby.  In the comment section the uploader actually said he used DH1
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I never played that game.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I would have really liked to have been able to run it.
   
   
  Ok so here's a few questions.
   
  1. Is there any other ideas on how to get Black Ops, MW2 and MW3 to sound better or with better positioning? What settings do I need again? 5.1 on xbox setting and theater on in game? I think surround headphone setting sounds better than theater on black ops personally.
   
  2. What is a good game to test positioning. Boarderlands? Oblivion? Fallout 3? MW3? A diff game?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DH1, 2, 3 (room modes) are different settings for Dolby Headphone. They are NOT on the Mixamp. The Mixamp uses DH2, as that's the 'best' mode. DH1 has less of a surround effect and the 'room' where the sound is spread around you is smallest. DH2 is what all console DH amps use, and I've been told that it's the best of the three. DH3 sounds like you're in a big room, with a lot of echo/revervb, and sounds more processed.

If you're using the headphone setting (IN GAME options) in black ops, you're not getting Dolby Headphone at all. Those types of options are either turned back to 2 channel audio optimized for headphones, or adds it's own software surround emulation which doesn't come close to Dolby Headphone, but if you think its better, sell your Mixamp and stick to that. That is, unless you were using that headphone mode WITH the Mixamp... in which then you were using two different surround processings at once, which SHOULD sound like crap. But hey... I'm not you.

Black Ops has it's best DH audio when you set it to Quiet + Theatre. That is the general consensus, and one I agree with.


----------



## Mysterious

How does this sound for my new gaming/movie/music desktop setup

 DT990/Q701 (whichever i can get for less)
 O2 Amp
 (Inbuilt soundcard)

 My Question is will this be enough to power and making these beasts sound to their potential ?
 Also can I make this setup any cheaper ? (maybe a cheaper amp )


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> How does this sound for my new gaming/movie/music desktop setup
> 
> DT990/Q701 (whichever i can get for less)
> O2 Amp
> ...


 
  Built in sound usually means low cost DAC.
   
  Used Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card ($55)
  SMSL SAP-100 amplifier ($65)
  I'm guessing the DT990 is cheaper then the Q701.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> How does this sound for my new gaming/movie/music desktop setup
> 
> DT990/Q701 (whichever i can get for less)
> O2 Amp
> ...


 
   
  I have one question: why no Dolby?


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I have one question: why no Dolby?


 
  No Money and I almost forgot about that.
 If you tell me a setup within 100$ (excluding the headphones ) with it then great because even the O2 is a tad on the expensive side for me


----------



## theguythatthe

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I sort of doubt the optical port was damaged.  Unless the jack has popped out of either the xbox or the AX720.
> 
> The CALs are low impedance, you may be able to hear the hissing on the AX720.  It wouldn't be intermittent though, it would be constant low level hissing.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Finally found the culprit.  It was my iPhone.  The AX720 volume is definitely not shielded.  I was able to replicate the issue by calling the phone.  It was weird though because the sound happened even when I wasn't getting a call or text.
   
  When I hold my wireless landline handset (during a phone call) over the top of the AX720 volume control, there is a loud hum in the left ear only.  When I hold it under the volume control, loud hum moves to the right side.  That explains the left side only problem because the volume control was always facing up and the iPhone was next to it.
   
  Thanks to everyone who helped me try to solve this issue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, no more issues?


----------



## theguythatthe

None, as far as I can tell.


----------



## calpis

Yeah, that's the thing with the GSM spectrum that AT&T, T-Mobile, and every other carrier in the world uses. Whenever a GSM phone accesses data over the towers it will emit a frequency that makes audio buzzing that you can hear over speakers/headphones/microphones. It pretty much means that something in the chain is low quality and lacks good shielding. There's really no practical way around this than to go into airplane mode or to turn off the phone completely. You can try changing all the cables in your audio chain to a shielded cable or one that has those magnet things on them. Or wrapping the Tritton amp in aluminum foil...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Do you remember those amazing 480p graphics?!!!
> 
> 4 8 0 p


 
   
  What's even more impressive is that the original Xbox actually does support 720p mode for a select few games, back when HDTVs were still hideously expensive.
   
  I actually happen to have one of those games...
   


ninjasushi2 said:


> huh? What is DH1, 2, 3?


 
   
  Different Dolby Headphone modes. The basic difference is that DH1 has no added reverb, DH2 adds a little, and DH3 adds a LOT.
   
  The simplified chipset in the Astro Mixamp and Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS only supports DH2 because it was considered the most popular mode, but the older JVC/Victor SU-DH1 allows you to switch between all three. So does the Dolby Headphone plugin for foobar2000 and any sound card that supports DH.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Finally found the culprit.  It was my iPhone.  The AX720 volume is definitely not shielded.  I was able to replicate the issue by calling the phone.  It was weird though because the sound happened even when I wasn't getting a call or text.
> 
> When I hold my wireless landline handset (during a phone call) over the top of the AX720 volume control, there is a loud hum in the left ear only.  When I hold it under the volume control, loud hum moves to the right side.  That explains the left side only problem because the volume control was always facing up and the iPhone was next to it.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who helped me try to solve this issue.


 
   
  The phone will trigger the interference whenever it checks your email if it isn't connected to wifi.


----------



## Rebel975

That's a flashback to my past. I used to game on a Logitech Z-5500 set, and it would always make the weirdest sound if my phone was receiving a text/call.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> No Money and I almost forgot about that.
> If you tell me a setup within 100$ (excluding the headphones ) with it then great because even the O2 is a tad on the expensive side for me


 
   
  I can't, because PC audio isn't something I know anything about. But I think Nameless's thread (link on 1st post) will be able to help you with sound cards; without the right sound card you'll be hearing in stereo only, and not virtual surround (whether Dolby or any other software).


----------



## Mysterious

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I can't, because PC audio isn't something I know anything about. But I think Nameless's thread (link on 1st post) will be able to help you with sound cards; without the right sound card you'll be hearing in stereo only, and not virtual surround (whether Dolby or any other software).


 
  I have a 5.1/7.1 surround sound mode in my soundcard settings though


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I'm trying the HD650 with mix amp.  The amp is strong enough...The sound stage of the HD650s aren't not spacious enough..


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DH1, 2, 3 (room modes) are different settings for Dolby Headphone. They are NOT on the Mixamp. The Mixamp uses DH2, as that's the 'best' mode. DH1 has less of a surround effect and the 'room' where the sound is spread around you is smallest. DH2 is what all console DH amps use, and I've been told that it's the best of the three. DH3 sounds like you're in a big room, with a lot of echo/revervb, and sounds more processed.
> If you're using the headphone setting (IN GAME options) in black ops, you're not getting Dolby Headphone at all. Those types of options are either turned back to 2 channel audio optimized for headphones, or adds it's own software surround emulation which doesn't come close to Dolby Headphone, but if you think its better, sell your Mixamp and stick to that. That is, unless you were using that headphone mode WITH the Mixamp... in which then you were using two different surround processings at once, which SHOULD sound like crap. But hey... I'm not you.
> Black Ops has it's best DH audio when you set it to Quiet + Theatre. That is the general consensus, and one I agree with.


 
  Oh no **** eh! So turn on DH on my mix amp. Change the xbox to 5.1. Then black ops to quiet + theater? Is this correct?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





theguythatthe said:


> Finally found the culprit.  It was my iPhone.  The AX720 volume is definitely not shielded.  I was able to replicate the issue by calling the phone.  It was weird though because the sound happened even when I wasn't getting a call or text.
> 
> When I hold my wireless landline handset (during a phone call) over the top of the AX720 volume control, there is a loud hum in the left ear only.  When I hold it under the volume control, loud hum moves to the right side.  That explains the left side only problem because the volume control was always facing up and the iPhone was next to it.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who helped me try to solve this issue.


 
  That's why I never use wireless.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mysterious said:


> I have a 5.1/7.1 surround sound mode in my soundcard settings though


 
   
  That's great; I still won't be able to help you because I don't understand the different surround sound codecs in the market. Go to Nameless's thread where the PC gaming audio enthusiasts can advise you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ninjasushi2 said:


> Oh no **** eh! So turn on DH on my mix amp. Change the xbox to 5.1. Then black ops to quiet + theater? Is this correct?




Yes, that would be it.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, that would be it.


 
  Ooh thanks. >D
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> That's great; I still won't be able to help you because I don't understand the different surround sound codecs in the market. Go to Nameless's thread where the PC gaming audio enthusiasts can advise you.


 
  Nameless'. Correct*


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Nameless'. Correct*


 
   
  Sorry, but that is incorrect. I proofread business documents for a living and had to resolve this same conundrum before. Here's what I found:
   


> _Chris*'s* book._ Style manuals now require the 's' except for a few classic names: _Jesus', Moses', Socrates'._


 
   
http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhereApostropheAfterNames/wvcrn/post.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Singular_nouns_ending_with_an_.22s.22_or_.22z.22_sound


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Sorry, but that is incorrect. I proofread business documents for a living and had to resolve this same conundrum before. Here's what I found:
> 
> 
> http://www.englishforums.com/English/WhereApostropheAfterNames/wvcrn/post.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Singular_nouns_ending_with_an_.22s.22_or_.22z.22_sound


 
  Unless you find it on Purdue Owl it doesn't mean ****. All major college use Purdue as a benchmark for APA, MLA, and other formats.
   
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/
   
   

 *add 's to the singular form of the word (even if it ends in -s):*


> the owner's car
> James's hat (James' hat is also acceptable. For plural, proper nouns that are possessive, use an apostrophe after the 's': "The Eggleses' presentation was good." The Eggleses are a husband and wife consultant team.)



 *add 's to the plural forms that do not end in -s:*


> the children's game
> the geese's honking



 *add ' to the end of plural nouns that end in -s:*


> two cats' toys
> three friends' letters
> the countries' laws



 *add 's to the end of compound words:*


> my brother-in-law's money



 *add 's to the last noun to show joint possession of an object:*


> Todd and Anne's apartment






> So both are acceptable in a sense. Though if you had said Nameless's *threads* then that would have been incorrect.





>





>





> Edit: Besides you quoted wiki and some English "forum" *.com        *You have now lost all credibility. I at least quoted a expert college's website.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What is going on here... lol.

I'm getting the itch to try out the newer HE400s with velours. Argh. Must resist.

I'm not going to lie, the D7000's pads are getting on my damn nerves during these hot months. Half tempted on getting the Pro 900s and HE400s...


----------



## Eric_C

Wow, that was aggressive. Hey maybe you're right and I'm wrong; I don't come from America and I don't know much about Purdue, or what major colleges _outside of the States_ use Purdue OWL (it is "OWL", right? Since OWL seems to be an acronym for "Online Writing Lab").
   
  Wiki isn't necessarily wrong if the sources it cites are credible. 
   
  Anyway, I proof for a business setting, where people really don't know what's grammatically right or wrong, and I just try to check for acceptable rules to live by. Like I said, maybe you're correct; for my purposes, a rule of thumb like "apostrophe+s unless the word is a special, classic name" works out fine.
   
  If you feel the need to discuss this further, let's do it by PM and avoid derailing the gaming audio discussion further.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What is going on here... lol.
> I'm getting the itch to try out the newer HE400s with velours. Argh. Must resist.
> I'm not going to lie, the D7000's pads are getting on my damn nerves during these hot months. Half tempted on getting the Pro 900s and HE400s...


 
  You could maybe rejigger some Aude'ze vegan pad, or maybe try some Lawton angled pads (pretty steep price to try, I know), real leather is more porous than pretty much any artificial leather.  
   
   
  I'm also getting some crazy ideas involving filling ear pads with that stuff from gel notebook coolers.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





phos said:


> You could maybe rejigger some Aude'ze vegan pad, or maybe try some Lawton angled pads (pretty steep price to try, I know), real leather is more porous than pretty much any artificial leather.
> 
> 
> I'm also getting some crazy ideas involving filling ear pads with that stuff from gel notebook coolers.


 
  That... sounds messy... He could always just buy a fan... lol that's what us poor folks do. hahahaha!
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What is going on here... lol.
> I'm getting the itch to try out the newer HE400s with velours. Argh. Must resist.
> I'm not going to lie, the D7000's pads are getting on my damn nerves during these hot months. Half tempted on getting the Pro 900s and HE400s...


 
  OMG I KNOW RIGHT!? I have no AC in my house and wearing HPs sometimes drives me bonkers! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Wow, that was aggressive. Hey maybe you're right and I'm wrong; I don't come from America and I don't know much about Purdue, or what major colleges _outside of the States_ use Purdue OWL (it is "OWL", right? Since OWL seems to be an acronym for "Online Writing Lab").
> 
> Wiki isn't necessarily wrong if the sources it cites are credible.
> 
> ...


 
  No sir! You were correct. It is acceptable in today's world just as saying "Nowadays" - which is a common slang word - has now been accepted in widespread use.


----------



## van41

I was curious how the PRO 900 would sound for gaming on my xbox 360 console?? Pro 2900 seems like a serious contender for gaming, how would the closed back version compete??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't buy the Pro 2900 though. Its severely overpriced. Sure, it sounds good, but it should cost in the $200 range.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't buy the Pro 2900 though. Its severely overpriced. Sure, it sounds good, but it should cost in the $200 range.


 
  how much does it cost? Is it better than the Q701?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

$450. I still greatly prefer the Q701. The only thing the Pro 2900 does better is bass. Nothing else.

By its own merits, the Pro 2900 is solid... just not for the price.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> No sir! You were correct. It is acceptable in today's world just as saying "Nowadays" - which is a common slang word - has now been accepted in widespread use.


 
   
  "Nowadays" is slang?? Wha--? -flips table-
  Dagnammit imma just quit this job already.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> $450. I still greatly prefer the Q701. The only thing the Pro 2900 does better is bass. Nothing else.
> By its own merits, the Pro 2900 is solid... just not for the price.


 
   
  Good grief, for that price...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> $450. I still greatly prefer the Q701. The only thing the Pro 2900 does better is bass. Nothing else.
> By its own merits, the Pro 2900 is solid... just not for the price.


 
   
  $450? Holy crap, that's Stax money! Including an amp or transformer box, even!
   
  Not to mention well into diminishing returns for gaming audio alone...could be worth it if you listen to plenty of music on the same setup, though.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> $450. I still greatly prefer the Q701. The only thing the Pro 2900 does better is bass. Nothing else.
> By its own merits, the Pro 2900 is solid... just not for the price.


 
  Ahh... good stuff. I like the Q701, I just wish I could get better position or louder footsteps, etc. Are there any amps that have their own EQ or is there a way to adjust EQ on some games? Like BlackOps is great because you can change the sound setup, but most other games I play have NONE and I mean NO! way of changing how the sound is presented which really "Grinds my gears."
   
   
   


eric_c said:


> "Nowadays" is slang?? Wha--? -flips table-
> Dagnammit imma just quit this job already.
> 
> 
> Good grief, for that price...


 
  Yeah it is slang, or was. . . Besides that, $450 bucks for a pair of phones that have slightly more bass than the Q701 (Which is plenty for me when gaming) is not worth it in my book. My mic, 2 amps, and Q701 cost me 600 after S&H, I could only imagine how much a setup like those would cost.
   
  BTW this setup is superb! Thank you, thank you, thank you!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Like K701 the Q701 lacks depth. Soundstage goes wide like the head of a hammerhead shark but not deep. I tried the Q701 (despite the aching headband) recently and it dissapointed the same. I still lay my hopes into the T90. Still waiting for them to arrive. :Q


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Like K701 the Q701 lacks depth. Soundstage goes wide like the head of a hammerhead shark but not deep. I tried the Q701 (despite the aching headband) recently and it dissapointed the same. I still lay my hopes into the T90. Still waiting for them to arrive. :Q


 
  The headband only bothered me for the first week, people should man up on comfort. lol The human body reacts and adapts almost more than any species on earth.
   
  For instance, people can't test the integrity of the nose or do "smell test", because it adapts to smells in 15 minutes. Walk into someone's house and it  smells like cury, 15 minutes later you don't even notice it. The body works the same with pain and discomfort on another level. You can get used to it and block it out like it never happened or complain the moment you try it and lose out on something good.
   
  I am not sure what you mean by lack of depth but I do wish for 240 bucks they sounded fuller. Some games almost sound linear using them.


----------



## Actiiive

Hey guys having read through the reviews of the headphones in this thread I was wondering would it be worth it to upgrade from a modded sennheiser hd 555 to hd 595, to a sennheiser hd 598?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





actiiive said:


> Hey guys having read through the reviews of the headphones in this thread I was wondering would it be worth it to upgrade from a modded sennheiser hd 555 to hd 595, to a sennheiser hd 598?


 
  IMO! The 598 is a totally different animal. You should really look it up. Nothing feels like it. That I have tried. Definitely the largest *underpowered (no amp) soundstage* I have heard.
  I loved everything about the 598 except for the sound but I don't deal well with N shaped frequency headphones. (That is what I am calling it, deal with it.) It really is an out of head experience for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ninja: Dunno what you want to sound deeper than the Q701. Nothing I've used sounds noticeably deeper. If you want better positioning... good luck, because IMHO, nothing does it better... maybe just the DT770 Pro 80, which pays the price with big boomy bass. Its probably worth finding a Premium DT770 or MMX300 that has weak bass. Too bad the one I tried was way too bassy.

You may as well buy a real 5.1 surround speaker setup, so you can get all the depth you want. Dolby Headphone isn't going to compete with that, though it dues positioning better overall.


----------



## Actiiive

Well I probably should have clarified that I have the astro mixamp. Thanks for the responses I am very close to pulling the trigger on the 598s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not going to be a huge difference, IMHO. If your modded 555s are anything like the Pc360... then the Hd598 is just more mid forward, and clearer, but not leaps and bounds. Personally, I preferred the more balanced PC360 sound over the HD598, though if you wanna analyzine gaming, the HD598 is definitely better. For the price of the HD598, I'd save up some more and get the Q701. They are better in every regard, IMHO, without the unnecessarily too forward mids. They just need some amping.


----------



## IronSnake

Decided to get the O2 amp for desktop use and I tried Skyrim last night to bi-amp the Q701 with the Mixamp pro, and I have to say the soundstage and positioning was a lot better than thru Mixamp alone.  Maybe it's new toy placebo effect, but I'm now convinced the Q701 definitely benefits from more power.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ninja: Dunno what you want to sound deeper than the Q701. Nothing I've used sounds noticeably deeper. If you want better positioning... good luck, because IMHO, nothing does it better... maybe just the DT770 Pro 80, which pays the price with big boomy bass. Its probably worth finding a Premium DT770 or MMX300 that has weak bass. Too bad the one I tried was way too bassy.
> You may as well buy a real 5.1 surround speaker setup, so you can get all the depth you want. Dolby Headphone isn't going to compete with that, though it dues positioning better overall.


 
  I don't know. I am partly deaf so... maybe the part that I have hearing loss in is minute noises and what not. 
   
  I honestly think it's the game. Every time I listen for footsteps it seems to get drowned out in HAILS of gunfire and over use of explosives.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Decided to get the O2 amp for desktop use and I tried Skyrim last night to bi-amp the Q701 with the Mixamp pro, and I have to say the soundstage and positioning was a lot better than thru Mixamp alone.  Maybe it's new toy placebo effect, but I'm now convinced the Q701 definitely benefits from more power.


 
  What set up did you do?
   
  Skyrim > Mix Amp > O2 Amp > Q701?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're talking about BLOPS, you absolutely need Ninja Pro, or you will not really hear footsteps. If they also have Ninja Pro, you're screwed.

Lots of games do not ever emphasize footsteps, so you won't hear them ever. Soundwhoring isn't what it used to be. Nowadays, you should listen more to other sounds others make, like gun fire, reloading, planting a claymore, etc.


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Exactly that setup.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Exactly that setup.


 
  That's how I roll.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you're talking about BLOPS, you absolutely need Ninja Pro, or you will not really hear footsteps. If they also have Ninja Pro, you're screwed.
> Lots of games do not ever emphasize footsteps, so you won't hear them ever. Soundwhoring isn't what it used to be. Nowadays, you should listen more to other sounds others make, like gun fire, reloading, planting a claymore, etc.


 
   
  Eh. MW3 really screwed the pooch. If you have SitRep Pro you can hear anyones footsteps loud as **** and it even cancels out dead silence pro. lol Pretty stupid IMHO.
   
  Yeah I play Ops but I've noticed even with pro it isn't as loud as I would want and most footsteps get drowned out by gunfire. Is there a way to target certain sounds to make them higher? Possibly an amp with it's own EQ?
   
  Now I will say these headphones are absolutely amazing with Search and Destroy!


----------



## calpis

Also if you're playing BLOPS, make sure you turn off/down game music completely. The music interferes too much when the match is about to end and the scores are real tight.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Decided to get the O2 amp for desktop use and I tried Skyrim last night to bi-amp the Q701 with the Mixamp pro, and I have to say the soundstage and positioning was a lot better than thru Mixamp alone.  Maybe it's new toy placebo effect, but I'm now convinced the Q701 definitely benefits from more power.


 
  Hey IronSnake,

 I want to "test" the Q701 with an amp, via Amazon, before I take the leap into getting one from JDSLabs (given the return stocking fee). Would the E11 be 'good' enough to try a amp-less verse amp-ed Q701?
   
  More info of why I'm doing it here:
   
   
   


mehdi said:


> My Q701s and Titanium HD should be arriving tomorrow.
> 
> I've additionally decided to order the following:
> * Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium - ~$200 *amp needed*
> ...


----------



## IronSnake

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Hey IronSnake,
> 
> I want to "test" the Q701 with an amp, via Amazon, before I take the leap into getting one from JDSLabs (given the return stocking fee). Would the E11 be 'good' enough to try a amp-less verse amp-ed Q701?


 
   
  Don't bother with the E11 as when I compared it against the O2, it actually makes the sound worse.  I only use the E11 paired with my Koss Pro DJ100 for fun listening.  Keep in mind though plenty of folks use it with E11 and they are perfectly fine with the Q701, but for what I heard, I'm will be bi-amping with the O2 from now on even without a mic in the mix.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Don't bother with the E11 as when I compared it against the O2, it actually makes the sound worse.  I only use the E11 paired with my Koss Pro DJ100 for fun listening.  Keep in mind though plenty of folks use it with E11 and they are perfectly fine with the Q701, but for what I heard, I'm will be bi-amping with the O2 from now on even without a mic in the mix.


 
  Hmm, aside from the E11 - what else would be worth trying out, prior to an O2?
   
  I'm actually using the Q701 right now, unamped into a Titanium HD, and it sounds "fine"  Then again, I don't know how it sounds 'amped' yet. 
   
  P.S. I have a mixamp too, but it doesnt seem to make a difference with the Q701s.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Don't bother with the E11 as when I compared it against the O2, it actually makes the sound worse.  I only use the E11 paired with my Koss Pro DJ100 for fun listening.  Keep in mind though plenty of folks use it with E11 and they are perfectly fine with the Q701, but for what I heard, I'm will be bi-amping with the O2 from now on even without a mic in the mix.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Hey IronSnake,
> 
> I want to "test" the Q701 with an amp, via Amazon, before I take the leap into getting one from JDSLabs (given the return stocking fee). Would the E11 be 'good' enough to try a amp-less verse amp-ed Q701?
> 
> More info of why I'm doing it here:


 
  Don't even waste your money. My buddy showed me the O2 amp and Q701 combo over on D2JSP.org's computer thread forum and now it's spreading like a wild fire over here. That O2 amp alone makes the sound so crisp and beautiful, but with coupled with a mix amp for DH the experience is like being stoned and listening to Jimmy Hendrix Experience... amazing. 
   
  Video Game Source > MixAmp > O2 Amp > AKG x0x = Profit.
   
  I have quite a few wires but with some cable ties you can tighty it up. This is my setup.
   
  Mix amp connected via TOS cable to the xbox.
  Xbox to a 42" LG via Monster's Theater Quality HDMI cable (shielded - etc)
  Ant Lion Mic to MixAmp via splitter with a 3.5mm M2M cable going into the O2 Amp.
  2.5mm M2M cable from controller to mixamp.
  From that 3.5mm M2M cable I have gain on the amp turned ON with the amp about half way to 3/4 way turned up.
  Then from the O2 amp to my Q701s with the Ant Lion mic attached.
   
  All in all.
  LG TV > HDMI Xbox > TOS > Mix Amp > Splitter to O2 amp and HP > O2 Amp to HP.
   
  DH is turned on, Astro MixAmp Pro sound is little over half way, and game volume is about 40-60% depending on game.
   
  I've been mucking with the sound for the past two weeks + trying to get the best sound I can via volume control and whether or not to use the MixAmp directly, cut it out, use both, etc. Best setup is Xbox > TOS > MixAmp DH on > O2 Amp gain on > Q701.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Don't even waste your money. My buddy showed me the O2 amp and Q701 combo over on D2JSP.org's computer thread forum and now it's spreading like a wild fire over here. That O2 amp alone makes the sound so crisp and beautiful, but with coupled with a mix amp for DH the experience is like being stoned and listening to Jimmy Hendrix Experience... amazing.
> 
> Video Game Source > MixAmp > O2 Amp > AKG x0x = Profit.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh yeah and the best setup is to nix the splitter and have the 3.5 M2M cable go straight from the mix amp to the O2 amp with no chat. Unplug the 2.5 cable and turn game volume all the way up so it doesn't have to divide for chat. Works great on S&D.


----------



## Mehdi

Not sure what you mean by wasting money  I was going to return the E11 afterwards. I just wanted to try the Q701 to see if amping helped, before buying the O2 which has a 15% restocking fee... if it wasn't good.
   
  P.S. O2 + Q701 combo is all over the place, recommended. Including OCN for a few months, prior to and after its release.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Not sure what you mean by wasting money  I was going to return the E11 afterwards. I just wanted to try the Q701 to see if amping helped, before buying the O2 which has a 15% restocking fee... if it wasn't good.


 
  Look up the double blind studies on it. Besides everyone agrees it's revolutionary for the price lol.


----------



## Velsu

That was an awesome guide Mad Lust Envy, thank You i have already read it like 4 times lol and i still cant decide which headphones i should pick.
   
  Today i was able to visit music shop and listen to them personally while reading Your guide...all ended in a dillema between DT 880 Premium 250 ohm and DT 990 Premium 250 ohm. Both sound great,but dt 880 lacks in bass for my taste,while dt 990 has it perfect but a bit too much treble which sometimes "covers" the vocal or some instruments.
  I just wish there was a perfect solution to combine two of these into one perfect headphone...
   
  I will mostly use headphones for gaming and lots of music (trance,dubstep,classical,symphony,orchestra,dance). MMO's are priority so i though DT 880 will be perfect (You stated if FPS is not main concern dt 880 is the way to go) but...those basses from DT 990...i literally took DT 880 in my hands,prepared wallet and...i couldnt do it,i felt im leaving something great behind and so i postponed my purchase decision until tomorrow and thats why im here asking for advice...WHAT TO DO?!
  Also both are 100% comfortable to me.
   
  Do 990 DT really have such great soundstage? Which one would You PERSONALLY choose? 880 or 990 for BOTH music and online + single player gaming?
   
  Also im a bit concerned that both of these headphones were pretty silent...i cranked up volume at the store to 100% but it wasnt as loud as i expected,maybe headphone amps were weak? (Pro-Ject amp for about 100$).
   
  Im also curious,why do people do combo like this : sound card --> mixamp--->amp-->headphones. Is it really better performance? I planned to get Fio E9 because they are accessible in my country,o2 is not,mixamp astro dunno.
   
  Sorry for wall of text but time is my enemy here as i need to make my decision tomorrow


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





velsu said:


> That was an awesome guide Mad Lust Envy, thank You i have already read it like 4 times lol and i still cant decide which headphones i should pick.
> 
> Today i was able to visit music shop and listen to them personally while reading Your guide...all ended in a dillema between DT 880 Premium 250 ohm and DT 990 Premium 250 ohm. Both sound great,but dt 880 lacks in bass for my taste,while dt 990 has it perfect but a bit too much treble which sometimes "covers" the vocal or some instruments.
> I just wish there was a perfect solution to combine two of these into one perfect headphone...
> ...


 
  If you are going to listen to dub, dubstep, house, trance, etc. DT 990s for sure. You can always DL an EQ program and control the treb yourself. 
   
  As for the double amp, it's used for console gaming. MixAmp for the DH while an O2 amp or sort to give a crisp, clear, high sound to the HP also adding increased volume for any given situation.
   
  What's you budget btw and how much are those headphones in the store compared to online? Amazon has been my friend forever because I find things there cheaper than you could imagine.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> Hmm, aside from the E11 - what else would be worth trying out, prior to an O2?
> 
> I'm actually using the Q701 right now, unamped into a Titanium HD, and it sounds "fine"  Then again, I don't know how it sounds 'amped' yet.
> 
> P.S. I have a mixamp too, but it doesnt seem to make a difference with the Q701s.


 
  If for now the Q701 sound good, maybe hold off on adding an external headphone amplifier for now.
  The T-HD (Titanium HD) does not come with a headphone amplifier, but seem to do a decent job drving headphones.
  Maybe wait for a good deal on a used O2.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If for now the Q701 sound good, maybe hold off on adding an external headphone amplifier for now.
> The T-HD (Titanium HD) does not come with a headphone amplifier, but seem to do a decent job drving headphones.
> Maybe wait for a good deal on a used O2.


 
  I already ordered the E11s and the Ultrasone PRO 550s  Oh well. I'm going to be testing those come Monday-Wed when they arrive.
   
  One thing to add here is, with the THD - adding the MixAmp via optical - doesn't seem to do much. We'll see how the E11 holds up, by itself or double amped to the MixAmp when it arrives.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I already ordered the E11s and the Ultrasone PRO 550s  Oh well. I'm going to be testing those come Monday-Wed when they arrive.
> 
> One thing to add here is, with the THD - adding the MixAmp via optical - doesn't seem to do much. We'll see how the E11 holds up, by itself or double amped to the MixAmp when it arrives.


 
  Both the T-HD and Asto Mix-amp come with headphone surround sound, so plugging the Mix-amp into the T-HDs optical out seems unnessary.
  Now the T-HD uses CMSS-3D and the Mix-amp uses Dolby, so that is one difference.


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> If you are going to listen to dub, dubstep, house, trance, etc. DT 990s for sure. You can always DL an EQ program and control the treb yourself.
> 
> As for the double amp, it's used for console gaming. MixAmp for the DH while an O2 amp or sort to give a crisp, clear, high sound to the HP also adding increased volume for any given situation.
> 
> What's you budget btw and how much are those headphones in the store compared to online? Amazon has been my friend forever because I find things there cheaper than you could imagine.


 
   


 Yeah i also thought 990 would be the way to go...just 880 has "something" that also makes me interested in it,clear sound etc.
  In my country those headphones are hard to obtain,price i found in store is not so bad compared to other online retailers i see here. Also Amazon prices (im using UK one because they are sending to my country) have a bit higher prices than the store i found so its ok,about 250 euro for DT 990 Premium and 240 euro for 880 DT premium so difference is not so big.
   
  And about budget,really no idea. I have no budget,got enough money but those are savings up for my future apartment so i would like to not spend too much and at the same time i dont want to limit myself by few euro/dollars and loose quality. DT 990 Premium are already expensive for me,but even for that price they are tempting with what they offer.
   
  Also i was wondering if Fiio E9 is good amp,because o2 is not avaiable in my country (unless i try on amazon i guess).
   
  p.s. are there any GOOD clip microphones with noise cancelling? Found some cheap ones in market but my friends say they are terrible and catch all kind of sounds.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Both the T-HD and Asto Mix-amp come with headphone surround sound, so plugging the Mix-amp into the T-HDs optical out seems unnessary.
> Now the T-HD uses CMSS-3D and the Mix-amp uses Dolby, so that is one difference.


 
  You're absolutely right. My MixAmp is primary for use for my PS3/360. However in this case I was testing it with the T-HDs in order to see if they help drive the Q701s any better. As far as I could tell, I didn't hear much of a difference.
   
  I do plan to test DH versus CMSS-3D, but its lower on my priority list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Velsu, I'd definitely go for the DT990, as long as you have a way to tone down the treble a little if it bothers you that much. The DT880 is great, but not for virtual surround gaming.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Velsu, I'd definitely go for the DT990, as long as you have a way to tone down the treble a little if it bothers you that much. The DT880 is great, but not for virtual surround gaming.


 
  I'm super interested to try the DT990s, especially since I am a slight base head. Unfortunately, it seems the price jumped to $300 from $200ish !


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Velsu, I'd definitely go for the DT990, as long as you have a way to tone down the treble a little if it bothers you that much. The DT880 is great, but not for virtual surround gaming.


 
  Unless you add the DT880 pro model into the mix instead of the premium.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard those, so I can't say.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





velsu said:


> Yeah i also thought 990 would be the way to go...just 880 has "something" that also makes me interested in it,clear sound etc.
> In my country those headphones are hard to obtain,price i found in store is not so bad compared to other online retailers i see here. Also Amazon prices (im using UK one because they are sending to my country) have a bit higher prices than the store i found so its ok,about 250 euro for DT 990 Premium and 240 euro for 880 DT premium so difference is not so big.
> 
> And about budget,really no idea. I have no budget,got enough money but those are savings up for my future apartment so i would like to not spend too much and at the same time i dont want to limit myself by few euro/dollars and loose quality. DT 990 Premium are already expensive for me,but even for that price they are tempting with what they offer.
> ...


 
  That's a great price considering they are 257 Euros here (320 dollars off amazon.com).
   
  As for a great mic I'd say Ant Lion that chicho offered us. I bought one and love the heck out of it.
   
  $320 Amazon.com *http://tinyurl.com/88lu2z7*


----------



## EkiMx

Great guide 
  Right now I have a pair of ATH-m50s for music though I occasionally play BF3 with them since they're already plugged into my computer.
  Any suggestions for a good cheap (less than $100) headphone with a good soundstage that I can use for gaming?
  I do have the KSC75 too but i'm not sure if they really are indeed better for gaming.
  I cant really tell i guess but I'll probably play around with them again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative Aurvana Live is a good gaming headphone that is comparable to the M50, but with better soundstage. Typically under $100. Though they are similar to the M50s, so not sure you'd go for them. They are warmer and less aggressive.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





ekimx said:


> Great guide
> Right now I have a pair of ATH-m50s for music though I occasionally play BF3 with them since they're already plugged into my computer.
> Any suggestions for a good cheap (less than $100) headphone with a good soundstage that I can use for gaming?
> I do have the KSC75 too but i'm not sure if they really are indeed better for gaming.
> I cant really tell i guess but I'll probably play around with them again.


 
  check out the JVC RX700, Superlux HD668, Samson SR850, umm I am sure there are others can't think of any off the top of my head.
  The KSC75 works just fine as well.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I haven't heard those, so I can't say.


 
  I know the premium's suppose to have issues with the sound imaging because of not being able to hear your 6 o'clock position if I think that what it was.  The DT880 pro doesn't have that issue and have very good sound imaging.  I know I was talking to some one about it,Because I was mentioning to them that I didn't had that issues because of me having the Pros.


----------



## IronSnake

I was really skeptical of the hype surrounding O2 but it ended up impressing even my coworker who swore off SS amps after he went Stax only.  The O2 surprised our ears for the low price and now he's back doing orthos and SS.  The joys of digging deeper into money pit that is this hobby.


----------



## XHale

I'm interested in the DT990 Pro which I can get from Germany in late July. I thought I would get the KSC-75 to tide me over until then, good idea? Also, would the O2 amp be enough for the DT990 Pro 250?

Thanks 
XHale


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xhale said:


> I'm interested in the DT990 Pro which I can get from Germany in late July. I thought I would get the KSC-75 to tide me over until then, good idea? Also, would the O2 amp be enough for the DT990 Pro 250?
> Thanks
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I  would assume the 02 has no problem working with 250-Ohm headphones.
  Good headphones.


----------



## XHale

Thanks, time to save up. 

How would you say the DT990 is against the HD558 and Brainwavz HM5?

Edit: I should add, for classical music and mainly uncompetitive gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pro would be terrible for classical. Too much bass, weak mids, strong treble. The DT990 Pros' strength would be for bass heavy genres.

You're better off with the DT880s.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xhale said:


> Thanks, time to save up.
> How would you say the DT990 is against the HD558 and Brainwavz HM5?
> Edit: I should add, for classical music and mainly uncompetitive gaming.


 
  The DT990 is great for action movies (Fiesta headphones), makes you feel like your in a movie theater.
  and they seem to do everything else well, but they are more amplifier dependent.
  The HD558 are very "german" kind of cold (analytical?) and do a decent job at everything, no weaknesses.
  The Brainwavz HM5 are very neutral, closed headphones that you can wear for long periods of time.
  Unless you need closed headphones to block noise, I prefer open


----------



## XHale

@MLE Hmm, I see. Would the HD598 or HD558 be good? The Beyers are too expensive unfortunately.

@PurpleAngel Thanks for that. Are the HM5 good with classical?

Thanks 
XHale

I should add that my budgets aeround USD250 and I'll most likely be getting the headphones from Germany at the end of July since headphones are very expensive here in Malaysia.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 would be pretty solid for classical, for sure.

If you have some form of amping, the Q701 is even better than the HD598 and should fit your budget. Hell, even ampless, I'd prefer them over the HD598.


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Velsu, I'd definitely go for the DT990, as long as you have a way to tone down the treble a little if it bothers you that much. The DT880 is great, but not for virtual surround gaming.


 
  Yea im thinking about DT 990,but You just stated that classical music sounds terrible on them and it gave me a bit of doubt (im weird and i listen to like 70% trance AND 30% classical music so its hard to match something along with competetive gaming).
  Do You personally think its worth to add 100% price for DT 990 Premium? DT 990 pro's are 50% cheaper than Premium here and i was just wondering about it.
   
  Im also looking at Q701,ultrasone 900 ( i guess You didnt try those?) and HE-4 because these seem to be PERFECT (fusing dt 880 and dt 990 together) but price is just scary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG you have a Pascal avatar (just noticed). You have all my internets. I LOVE Pascal. She is kind of like the second coming of Yuffie for me. XD



As for your post, PERSONALLY I do think the Premiums are worth the difference in price. The premium's bass isn't overly exaggerated like it is on the DT990 pros (to my ears), and even classical sounds good on those. My biggest problem with the pros is that are tipped too heavily on the bass side, so they are not as diverse as the premiums in terms of music genres. The premiums still have a great amount of bass, but it's not a severe tip towards it like it is on the pros.

The Q701 is an awesome compromise. While bass may lack a bit AT times, they can also do bass very well. IF you have a way to boost the bass... the Q701 is my definite recommendation as it would do absolutely everything well, with no downsides in sound quality I can think of. In stock form, they would do any genre (especially classical) justice, with a slight lack of bass for EDM and hip hop, but is fixable. Some Trance songs sound heavenly on the Q701. They just aren't the BEST in those genres. When you're spoiled by other headphones with added bass, the Q701 will sound pretty weak in comparison until you bass boost. Though don't ask me how to bass boost, because I don't EQ other than using the bass boost on my Mixamp 5.8, and the bass boost on the E5/E7 (in the past).

The HE-4 needs an obscene amount of power. Just an amp alone that can power them well will cost as much as the HE-4 itself. It is not recommended at all, unless you happen to own a very powerful amp. I'm not kidding.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the Pro 900 should PROBABLY be like a closed DT990 Pro, though I'm not sure if the bass can get as uncomfortable. In any case, I'm not so sure they would do classical any justice.

It's weird, while I thought the XB500s were a terrible headphone with a destructive amount of midbass, it was also never uncomfortable sounding. So my sensitivity to mid bass seems to also need another 'factor' to make it unbearable for me. In comparison, the DT990 Pro, Koss UR40, and DT770/600 (the rare bass heavy version I got), had mid bass that hurt my ears, and I doubt they hit as hard as the XB500s.


----------



## XHale

Where I live, the cheapest I can get the Q701's is RM950(USD299) which is a stretch for my budget but possible. Are they still good for that price?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> OMG you have a Pascal avatar (just noticed). You have all my internets. I LOVE Pascal. She is kind of like the second coming of Yuffie for me. XD
> As for your post, PERSONALLY I do think the Premiums are worth the difference in price. The premium's bass isn't overly exaggerated like it is on the DT990 pros (to my ears), and even classical sounds good on those. My biggest problem with the pros is that are tipped too heavily on the bass side, so they are not as diverse as the premiums in terms of music genres. The premiums still have a great amount of bass, but it's not a severe tip towards it like it is on the pros.
> The Q701 is an awesome compromise. While bass may lack a bit AT times, they can also do bass very well. IF you have a way to boost the bass... the Q701 is my definite recommendation as it would do absolutely everything well, with no downsides in sound quality I can think of. In stock form, they would do any genre (especially classical) justice, with a slight lack of bass for EDM and hip hop, but is fixable. Some Trance songs sound heavenly on the Q701. They just aren't the BEST in those genres. When you're spoiled by other headphones with added bass, the Q701 will sound pretty weak in comparison until you bass boost. Though don't ask me how to bass boost, because I don't EQ other than using the bass boost on my Mixamp 5.8, and the bass boost on the E5/E7 (in the past).
> The HE-4 needs an obscene amount of power. Just an amp alone that can power them well will cost as much as the HE-4 itself. It is not recommended at all, unless you happen to own a very powerful amp. I'm not kidding.
> ...


 

 Haha yeah its Pascal. I really love her and also had a thought about Yuffie when i first saw her. Great persona's is something i miss in modern jrpg's and Tales of Graces F is just epic piece of art that reminded me why PS one and PS 2 were so damn good.
   
  I will most likely go with DT 990 Premuim 250 ohm then as they seem to be good all around headphones with some high bass and also great for gaming. If i have a chance i will give Q701 a listen but i think my mind is already set up (i just dreamed about those beautfil ear pads dt 990 has ).
  Cant wait to listen some lossless dubstep/trance with my DT 990 when i get them.
   
  Its a pity HE-4 is so demanding because they seem to be perfect headphones for my purpose,but maybe in the future.
  Any idea if Woo Audio *3* would be suitable for HE-4? Because this amp is so beautiful i plan to buy it in future.
   
  Also need amp for DT 990 Premium 250 ohm,do You think FiiO E9 will be enough? I can get it for pretty good price and its available instantly so i dont need to wait long for it to arrive. My other option could be Little Dot MK III because someone is selling used one in good condition,but i think i would prefer FiiO for now.
   
  Edit 1: Its woo audio 3,not 2 (lol)
   
  Edit 2: Now im thinking about Ultrasone Pro 900 or HE-4 + WA3...need to stopppp....


----------



## Naingolann

E9 is great for the Premiums. With my 600s I won't even go further than 9-10 o'clock, because it gets really loud otherwise! I'd say go for it.


----------



## Velsu

Aye i decided to try FiiO E9.
   
  Gonna go visit shop one more time and listen to Ultrasone pro 900 too,because they are closed if im not mistaken and could be useful in my enviroment.
   
  So final will be something like this:
   
  1) Titanium HD ---> FiiO E9---> DT 990 premium 250 ohm
   
  OR
   
  2) Titanium HD ---> FiiO E9---> Ultrasone Pro 900


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





velsu said:


> Haha yeah its Pascal. I really love her and also had a thought about Yuffie when i first saw her. Great persona's is something i miss in modern jrpg's and Tales of Graces F is just epic piece of art that reminded me why PS one and PS 2 were so damn good.
> 
> I will most likely go with DT 990 Premuim 250 ohm then as they seem to be good all around headphones with some high bass and also great for gaming. If i have a chance i will give Q701 a listen but i think my mind is already set up (i just dreamed about those beautfil ear pads dt 990 has ).
> Cant wait to listen some lossless dubstep/trance with my DT 990 when i get them.
> ...


 
  The Fiio E9 is a good little solid state amp.
  But I would rather get the Little Dot MK III myself for 250-Ohm headphones.


----------



## XHale

So if I get the Q701's, I was thinking of using a Amp/DAC combo that MLE recommended in the Q701 appreciation thread: O2 amp + Fiio D3 DAC and output Dolby Headphone using my Xonar DG.
   
  Would that work well?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fiio D3 is decent for the price, but I wouldnt exactly settle for it. Its my secondary dac, that I use for my TV/soundbar. 

While the E9 has plenty of power for the DT990 250ohm, it also sounds a bit harsh up top, which doesn't do the DT990 any favors. The DT990 is ideally paired up with a smooth/warm amp.


----------



## caracara08

i havent been following the thread of late, by why is the e9 being recommended over the o2 for that price range? serious question, not trying to start a war.


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Fiio D3 is decent for the price, but I wouldnt exactly settle for it. Its my secondary dac, that I use for my TV/soundbar.
> While the E9 has plenty of power for the DT990 250ohm, it also sounds a bit harsh up top, which doesn't do the DT990 any favors. The DT990 is ideally paired up with a smooth/warm amp.


 

 I see,what would be recommended amp for DT 990 250 ohm then? I would want one that will pair good with Titanium HD and its surround sound without colouring anything.
   
  And i already decided what to purchase.Just came back from shop,happy with my new DT 990 Premium's! When i was there i also gave a spin to Ultrasone Pro 900. I must say they sound AMAZING,everything was perfectly clear and bass was great and not so invasive like DT 990. I was one step from purchasing them but they have one weak point that was annoying me...they are uncomfortable as hell. Its probably personal preference but they were hurting my jaw a bit and giving pressure to skin under my ears. After 10-15 minutes of listening i already had hot and wet ears and all i wanted was to take them off.
  DT 990 on the other hand are so comfortable i didnt even felt i have them on


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

caracara08 said:


> i havent been following the thread of late, by why is the e9 being recommended over the o2 for that price range? serious question, not trying to start a war.




I haven't heard the O2. I'm sure it sounds stellar. The only thing is that the E9 has been known to sound great with the Q701 (I agree), and I have heard the O2 and Q701 aren't an ideal match. Just what I've heard. That said, for gaming off the Mixamp, I doubt the O2 would be anything but beneficial.

In any case, I wouldn't know of any amps that would fit the DT990s, except maybe something like the MStage, Asgard, or some tube amps that soften treble a little. I haven't heard these, so I can't personally recommend them.

The E9 prefers smooth sounding headphones, because harsh headphones like the DT990 will remain harsh. If you like the stock sound of the DT990s, the E9 will be fine.


----------



## caracara08

ah ic ic. i almost went with the q701 but opted to try out the MadDog TR50P


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FWIH, the O2 is a very transparent amp. Honestly, a transparent amp is what I'd recommend as the first amp anyone should get. That being said, certain headphones prefer warm sounding amps, and some prefer bright sounding amps. Usually, getting the latter two is only recommended for those who know what they want and want to build around their headphone, instead of around their amp.

The issues I have heard about the O2/Q701 is that it can sound thin, anemic, compared to warm amps, which is understandable. Doesn't mean the O2 is worse, or lacking. It's just the Q701's preference for full sounding amps. The E9 itself isn't far from transparent, but perhaps the 10ohm output gives the Q701 a slight hint of warmth, which is why people like the E9 with the Q701 as much as they do. Normally though, you'll want a low output impedance, like the O2's.

For those looking for an amp to attach to the Mixamp, the O2 would definitely be my first choice as it's not very big, cheap, transparent, and with plenty of power. Personally, I don't have a need for one, and would rather wait for the desktop version (ODA) if I did.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> FWIH, the O2 is a very transparent amp. Honestly, a transparent amp is what I'd recommend as the first amp anyone should get. That being said, certain headphones prefer warm sounding amps, and some prefer bright sounding amps. Usually, getting the latter two is only recommended for those who know what they want and want to build around their headphone, instead of around their amp.
> The issues I have heard about the O2/Q701 is that it can sound thin, anemic, compared to warm amps, which is understandable. Doesn't mean the O2 is worse, or lacking. It's just the Q701's preference for full sounding amps. The E9 itself isn't far from transparent, but perhaps the 10ohm output gives the Q701 a slight hint of warmth, which is why people like the E9 with the Q701 as much as they do. Normally though, you'll want a low output impedance, like the O2's.
> For those looking for an amp to attach to the Mixamp, the O2 would definitely be my first choice as it's not very big, cheap, transparent, and with plenty of power. *Personally, I don't have a need for one, and would rather wait for the desktop version (ODA) if I did.*


 
  The O2 Amp is a desktop version though?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> The O2 Amp is a desktop version though?


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> FWIH, the O2 is a very transparent amp. Honestly, a transparent amp is what I'd recommend as the first amp anyone should get. That being said, certain headphones prefer warm sounding amps, and some prefer bright sounding amps. Usually, getting the latter two is only recommended for those who know what they want and want to build around their headphone, instead of around their amp.
> The issues I have heard about the O2/Q701 is that it can sound thin, anemic, compared to warm amps, which is understandable. Doesn't mean the O2 is worse, or lacking. It's just the Q701's preference for full sounding amps. The E9 itself isn't far from transparent, but perhaps the 10ohm output gives the Q701 a slight hint of warmth, which is why people like the E9 with the Q701 as much as they do. Normally though, you'll want a low output impedance, like the O2's.
> For those looking for an amp to attach to the Mixamp, the O2 would definitely be my first choice as it's not very big, cheap, transparent, and with plenty of power. Personally, I don't have a need for one, and would rather wait for the desktop version (ODA) if I did.


 
  So what's a warm sounding amp? - As in besides the E9 what else is? Any recommendations? Also what does one sound like. (What is warm sounding?)
   
  Quote: 





mehdi said:


> The O2 Amp is a desktop version though?


 
  Yes and no. It has it's own rechargeable batteries but at the same time it also has AC power supply capable. I use it as a desktop amp and it's great.


----------



## Velsu

OMG OGM OMG am i hearing things??!
   
  Just connected DT 990 Premium directly to THD and im already destroyed. What a sound,what quality...i hear things i never heard before (even in shop while testing on amp!). Volume is ULTRA HIGH (need to tone down to 15% lol).
   
  To anyone having doubts or wondering if Titanium HD can handle DT 990...they can and they do it RIGHT.
   
  Im almost sure with proper amp it will be paradise,thats why im thinking about ditching idea of buying FiiO E9 and go directly into something better (Schiit asgard or valhalla mby?)


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





velsu said:


> OMG OGM OMG am i hearing things??!
> 
> Just connected DT 990 Premium directly to THD and im already destroyed. What a sound,what quality...i hear things i never heard before (even in shop while testing on amp!). Volume is ULTRA HIGH (need to tone down to 15% lol).
> 
> ...


 
  Bad ass yo! Congrats!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The O2 isn't desktop sized though. It's really small for a desktop amp, and connecting/diconnecting, hell just touching the O2 would cause it to slide around. I want something a bit more stable. That, and I don't like the front facing inputs.





 It makes no sense to me. Inputs should be on the back. Having the ac adapter AND audio input next to the headphone jack... that's a terrible choice. The only cable that should connect to the front should be the headphone cable. Hell, I'd be happy with an amplifier with the headphone input on the back, making the front all nice and clutter free.


My NFB 5 is like a mini AV receiver size... just how I want my stationary amps to be. The Schiit amps are also nice sized and sturdy.


I can't wait to see what the ODA will look like.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

The O2 doesn't slide. They give you 4 rubber bottoms to attach to the bottom any config you like. I find thatit the front is very convenient to when moving between my computer and xbox. Though it is cluttery.


----------



## Velsu

And how would You guys rate Schiit Asgard quality wise? Are they good investment for future if i will be changing phones for something better like HE-4 or Tesla T1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've already been told the O2 does move. A strong enough nudge will make it slide around. The O2 weighs less than the E9, and I don't like that the E9 is lightweight and itself moves around, even with feet. The O2 is only about 66% of the E9's weight, so yeah. No thanks. In comparison, the Lyr weighs 7 lbs, and my NFB5 weighs 11 lbs. That's what I want in a set it and forget it desktop amp that won't move around when cleaning around it, plugging in cables, etc.

Not even the Asgard has enough power for the HE-4. Nothing less than something like the EF-5 or Schiit Lyr. The HE-4 will get loud out of even the E9, but it's pathetic sounding in comparison. Don't bother with the HE-4 unless you plan on getting something incredibly potent. I think in terms of cheaper amps, the NFB12 has a ton of power, though I can't be sure it's enough to make the HE-4 shine. SQ isn't just based off power alone... and the NFB5 has the same exact power specs as the NFB12, with different, high quality internals. However, the NFB5 cost me almost as much as the Lyr, after all was said and done (though it's a DAC/AMP).

That said, most headphone amps like the Asgard should work fine for practically any other headphone including the easier to drive HE400 and HE500. The HE-4 is an older model ortho which required an illogical amount of power.

From what I been told, the MStage is better than the Asgard in pretty much all regards for that price. For the price range, the NFB12 is also a candidate, with more power than either of those, though not necessarily better quality.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





velsu said:


> OMG OGM OMG am i hearing things??!
> 
> Just connected DT 990 Premium directly to THD and im already destroyed. What a sound,what quality...i hear things i never heard before (even in shop while testing on amp!). Volume is ULTRA HIGH (need to tone down to 15% lol).
> 
> ...


 
  I man, I can't wait to try these next ^_^


----------



## NamelessPFG

$450-500 amps to drive equally expensive headphones? "Sorry about your wallet" indeed...
   
  Am I the only one who prefers dynamic/ortho headphones to be sensitive enough to drive without the really expensive amplifiers?
   
  EDIT: Just found a post in my thread with a quote I really want to discuss here.
   



> As far as advice for/against Dolby Headphone through a USB headset or a soundcard with Dolby (or other positional simulator), HRTFs are extremely complex to do correctly, and generally work best when exactly matched to the response curve of the headset and even the axis of the driver relative to the ear cup. This means that *most* people get positional audio cues better from a USB headset because the audio engineers can design the entire system to produce the closest representation of the HRTF.


 
   
  Needless to say, I'm extremely skeptical about this. Yes, HRTFs are difficult to do when everyone has a unique HRTF, but is some cheap headset with cheap drivers that has a specially-tailored HRTF going to beat out an audiophile headphone with quality drivers and a more generic binaural HRTF tech?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well yeah, I too prefer to have headphones that don't require a power plant, lol. Denon D7000 comes to mind. It sounds loud and amazing even off my PSP... and the PSP is a VERY WEAK source, power-wise.

Still, ideally, you have to find a happy medium. A headphone that sounds good unamped, but sounds better with one.

I think I might sell my Q701, and go for an ortho later on. D7000 stays though. XD

If anyone in is interested (US only) in a pair of white Q701s, pm me. Willing to unload them for $205 total. (the $5 to shave off a little off the paypal fee).

Most likely going to put up a listing on the sale section tomorrow.

We just lost the contract at work, and they'll be sending me somewhere else a few days from now, so my check is gonna be missing like 4 days of work. I'm gonna need the cash.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Ouch. My family's running tight on funds lately, so I know the feeling. Best of luck to you.
   
  My dilemma is that my primary headphones _can't_ run unamped. This isn't a matter of imperfect sound, but _no_ sound. I'm taking the cheap way out by using an old receiver and the SRD-7/SB they came with, but the dedicated amps like the SRM-1/Mk2 Pro and SRM-313 start at around $300-400 used, and the prices just keep going way, way up to the point of $5,700 BHSEs...
   
  Naturally, I have to keep a different set of headphones around for portable use. (Not necessarily outdoors, but around the house, since I have just one SU-DH1 that I shuffle between my bedroom and the living room, depending on what console I want to use it with. Attaching a heavy, bulky amp kind of kills the portability there.) But the Head-Fi hype machine sure makes it seem like even the $250 or so headphones like the K701 and Q701 will sound absolutely horrible and unlistenable unless you have an equally expensive amp to back them up, which just makes it all the more difficult to find that ideal set which sounds good unamped, but may get even better when properly amped.
   
  Oh, and now that I think about that quoted post...you'd think that if those gaming headsets were designed around their HRTFs, then the likes of the Tritton AX720 and Astro A40 wouldn't be constantly ditched because they'd be perfectly suited to Dolby Headphone's positional cues. This thread wouldn't exist!


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Im telling you the amp doesnt move lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And I'm telling you, for me they'd slip and slide all over the place, considering I plug/unplug all manner of cables on a regular basis.


----------



## XHale

If the O2 isn't a good amp fo the Q701, what's a good Amp/DAC for around USD100? Would the O2 be enought to power the DT880 600Ohm?

Thanks


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've already been told the O2 does move. A strong enough nudge will make it slide around. The O2 weighs less than the E9, and I don't like that the E9 is lightweight and itself moves around, even with feet. The O2 is only about 66% of the E9's weight, so yeah. No thanks. In comparison, the Lyr weighs 7 lbs, and my NFB5 weighs 11 lbs. That's what I want in a set it and forget it desktop amp that won't move around when cleaning around it, plugging in cables, etc.
> Not even the Asgard has enough power for the HE-4. Nothing less than something like the EF-5 or Schiit Lyr. The HE-4 will get loud out of even the E9, but it's pathetic sounding in comparison. Don't bother with the HE-4 unless you plan on getting something incredibly potent. I think in terms of cheaper amps, the NFB12 has a ton of power, though I can't be sure it's enough to make the HE-4 shine. SQ isn't just based off power alone... and the NFB5 has the same exact power specs as the NFB12, with different, high quality internals. However, the NFB5 cost me almost as much as the Lyr, after all was said and done (though it's a DAC/AMP).
> That said, most headphone amps like the Asgard should work fine for practically any other headphone including the easier to drive HE400 and HE500. The HE-4 is an older model ortho which required an illogical amount of power.
> From what I been told, the MStage is better than the Asgard in pretty much all regards for that price. For the price range, the NFB12 is also a candidate, with more power than either of those, though not necessarily better quality.


 

 Yea the Matrix M-Stage is a great amp, I had one and used it with my DT880 pro-250, Even when I went back to a STX.  Since I went back to a STX I in up selling it to use the money on something else.But I enjoyed my Matrix M-Stage very much as well as changing the op-amps inside it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think I might sell my Q701....


 
   
  NOOOoooooooooo!!!!!


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> NOOOoooooooooo!!!!!


 
   
  That was my reaction as well. Unfortunately, I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of bad news from employers. When I left Magnolia, I was told I could either take a paycut or they'd pay me 6 months to find another job. So I can see why MLE would want to. Still a sad thing to consider though. I'd hate to give up mine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys know I love them. I just hardly use them. I hardly use my D7000 too. It'd probably be smarter to sell both, and get just get like the Pro 900 for bass heavy stuff, and like the HE400 for the other stuff. I don't find the Pro 2900 less comfy than the D7000, so I'm sure the Pro 900 would be fine. I really just am fed up with non velour pads.

But honestly, it'd take a lot to give up my D7000.


----------



## Rebel975

Man, even my Lyr slides around and it's a pretty solid hunk of gear. I wish it weighed 2-3x as much.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You guys know I love them. I just hardly use them. I hardly use my D7000 too. It'd probably be smarter to sell both, and get just get like the Pro 900 for bass heavy stuff, and like the HE400 for the other stuff. I don't find the Pro 2900 less comfy than the D7000, so I'm sure the Pro 900 would be fine. I really just am fed up with non velour pads.
> But honestly, it'd take a lot to give up my D7000.


 

  
  I see.   How you feel about the D7000 is probably how I feel about the Q701.  It was and is my end-game headphone, as I don't expect to find cans better than the Q701 until I get to the pricey stuff - and I'm not sure I want to go _there_.  I also have no intentions of buying any more amps or DACs (except _maybe _the ODA/ODAC).
   
   
  You don't think think you'll try the T90 do you?  I'm curious what Zombie will think of them.  I still have no real idea about how they sound though.


----------



## chicolom

Wow, just checked in on AVS forum and it looks completely different.  About time too - that forum was ugly!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm curious about the T90, but I don't think it will be much different from the Q701 in terms of it's strengths. For that, I may as well keep the Q701. However, I prefer something with more bass and velour pads, as that would be more beneficial to my preferred genres, and single player gaming (which is mostly what I play). I honestly don't like online gaming, save CoD, and even that is played out.

I'm more interested in the HE400 outfitted with velours. I'm just afraid it'll be too warm. It's between that and the Pro 900.. even though the Pro 900 is a backstep considering what I own. At least I'm pretty sure the Pro 900 would be a right fit for me...

I'm looking for end game... eventually. I guess it will be the D7000+HE400...


----------



## Velsu

This might be a weird question...but if i buy an amp will i be able to LOWER the volume? On my PC i need to have overall volume on 20% for my ears to not blow away,but all other sounds from games are silent then too...i wish i could keep 100% pc voice but control volume on headphones.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





velsu said:


> This might be a weird question...but if i buy an amp will i be able to LOWER the volume? On my PC i need to have overall volume on 20% for my ears to not blow away,but all other sounds from games are silent then too...i wish i could keep 100% pc voice but control volume on headphones.


 
  Yeah you can. I've never heard of an amp that doesn't have a volume control and most should have a gain/overdrive/etc.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

How good is this dac/amp?
   
   
   
 [size=small]
  "Topping TP-D2 Headphone AMP & USB Coaxial DAC & Sound Card Power Amplifier"   
   

[/size]  l*http://tinyurl.com/7fubles*
   
  Actually, I think I might give my O2 to my wife for here Velodyne VPulse and find a more Q701 friendly amp. Since you love them so much Chico, what kind of amp or dac or w/e do you use? I want something that will give them the fullness and warmth everyone talks about. I guess I need a warmer amp that compliments the Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That looks like an M Stage clone (though I believe the M Stage is also a clone). Ask on Head-fi. The internals could be different, and much worse. Buying off ebay... that's quite a risk.


----------



## AxelCloris

I asked about that exact amp/dac in the Q701 forums. The others, including MLE, recommended I stay away.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/1365#post_8490905


----------



## chicolom

I'd be wary of cheap Chinese amps, unless they have already proven themselves many times on Head-Fi.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Since you love them so much Chico, what kind of amp or dac or w/e do you use? I want something that will give them the fullness and warmth everyone talks about. I guess I need a warmer amp that compliments the Q701.


 
   
  I use a Matrix M-stage, with an HRT Music Streamer II as the DAC. 
   
  Keep in mind, I don't have all that much experience with different amps.  I have heard the E9 though, and it slightly less full sounding with weaker mids than the M-stage.  That may be similar to how the O2 sounds.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> How good is this dac/amp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm far from an expert, but an amplifier with an output impedance of 200-Ohm just seems wrong to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> I asked about that exact amp/dac in the Q701 forums. The others, including MLE, recommended I stay away.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/1365#post_8490905




Oh yeah, that output impedance... lol

That just screams cheap.


----------



## matryx

I'm looking for a new headphone. I have the Denon D2000 and they sound great but my ears get sweaty and hot after 30 mins. Is there something you guys can recommend me that's open and comfortable. Something that won't make my ears sweat. 
   
  Also are there anyone else here that uses their headphones while sleeping? Something that I can sleep on would be a great addition.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For resting? KSC75

Open, non-sweaty? DT880/DT990/Q701/HE300/HD598


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





matryx said:


> Is there something you guys can recommend me that's open and comfortable. Something that won't make my ears sweat.


 
   
  Sony MDR MA900 should be pretty cool.


----------



## crzycuyler

I am going to build a gaming computer in the Fall/Winter and want to make sure I get the best audio experience. Obviously speakers and headphones are important, but I need to work on deciding the parts to use in the computer. What should I be looking for? Dolby Headphone? Is there anything else worth looking into? Does it make that big of a difference? Should I look for motherboards with this built in, or for separate soundcards? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mehdi

I just got the FiiO E11 in he mail earlier today and I've been playing with it, connected to the Q701. Quick frankly, I don't notice a minimal difference at best.
   
  I'm starting to strongly question the suggestion the Q701s really help when amped. Perhaps my ears just aren't sensitive enough to hear the difference. Or maybe the THDs are "good enough" for driving the headphones.
   
  All said, the Q701s standalone are still amazing to me - between comfort and sound. I should be getting the PRO 550s in the mail on Monday. It'll be interesting to see how they head up against the Q701s. 
   
  P.S. I have the "gain" set to Low and the EQ set to 0 on the E11s.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I just got the FiiO E11 in he mail earlier today and I've been playing with it, connected to the Q701. Quick frankly, I don't notice a minimal difference at best.
> I'm starting to strongly question the suggestion the Q701s really help when amped. Perhaps my ears just aren't sensitive enough to hear the difference. Or maybe the THDs are "good enough" for driving the headphones.
> All said, the Q701s standalone are still amazing to me - between comfort and sound. I should be getting the PRO 550s in the mail on Monday. It'll be interesting to see how they head up against the Q701s.
> P.S. I have the "gain" set to Low and the EQ set to 0 on the E11s.


 
  Did you let the battery on the E11 full charge?
  Try set the voltage switch to high, it's located under the battery.


----------



## matryx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For resting? KSC75
> Open, non-sweaty? DT880/DT990/Q701/HE300/HD598


 
   
  Yeah I have the KSC75. It's what I'm using now when I'm watching something in bed to fall a sleep. Just thought I'll ask here for something better. I'm thinking of the DT880 or the HD598. Which do you think is more comfortable and airy? I don't really want to spend too much for it. Something around $200-$250. 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Sony MDR MA900 should be pretty cool.


 
   
  Thanks for the suggestion but over budget.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I am going to build a gaming computer in the Fall/Winter and want to make sure I get the best audio experience. Obviously speakers and headphones are important, but I need to work on deciding the parts to use in the computer. What should I be looking for? Dolby Headphone? Is there anything else worth looking into? Does it make that big of a difference? Should I look for motherboards with this built in, or for separate soundcards? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
Did you check my thread?
   
  If you're going to use both speakers and headphones...are we talking stereo speakers, or surround speakers? If it's the latter, things just got much more complicated since the higher-end sound cards tend not to bother with more than two analog channels.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





matryx said:


> I'm thinking of the DT880 or the HD598. Which do you think is more comfortable and airy? I don't really want to spend too much for it. Something around $200-$250.


 
   
  Between those two the HD598 is more open and airy.  And more comfortable IMO (more room inside the ear cups).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mehdi said:
			
		

> .I just got the FiiO E11 in he mail earlier today and I've been playing with it, connected to the Q701. Quick frankly, I don't notice a minimal difference at best.
> 
> I'm starting to strongly question the suggestion the Q701s really help when amped. Perhaps my ears just aren't sensitive enough to hear the difference. Or maybe the THDs are "good enough" for driving the headphones.
> 
> ...




Lol, thinking the E11 is actually giving enough power to the Q701. Try harder. The Q701 needs STRONG desktop amps to truly shine. They work fine with little amps, but big amps are where its at for the AKGs. Head-fi has mentioned it countless times.

The only time the E11 should be sufficient is when hooking it up to the Mixamp for gaming. For music and non gaming, you will want amps usually in the $250+ range.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I am going to build a gaming computer in the Fall/Winter and want to make sure I get the best audio experience. Obviously speakers and headphones are important, but I need to work on deciding the parts to use in the computer. What should I be looking for? Dolby Headphone? Is there anything else worth looking into? Does it make that big of a difference? Should I look for motherboards with this built in, or for separate soundcards? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


 
  On-board audio usually means a low cost DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), a low cost audio processor and the headphone jack is usually a line-out jack that also labels itself a "headphone Jack".
  Most people are going to use low cost headphones with these on-board/built in audio.
  Some motherboards are starting to ship with with better audio support.
  Sound cards like the Creative Titanium HD and Asus Essence STX (& ST) come wiith much better DACs, better surround sound for games and movies. and a headphone jack that can power quality headphones. Both are good for music.
  The Titanium HD has the most "gaming" support and the Essence can drive headphones up to 600-Ohms.
  I'm biased for the the Asus Xonar Essence STX.
   
  So I would say that it really does not matter too much what audio comes built into a motherboards, adding a sound card will enhance the audio if your looking for "good" audio for gaming and movies.


----------



## chicolom

Check out my laptop's audio board.    Pretty impressive. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





    I wonder if it will drive orthodynamics...


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Did you let the battery on the E11 full charge?
> Try set the voltage switch to high, it's located under the battery.


 
   
  I just double checked, the voltage is set to high.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, thinking the E11 is actually giving enough power to the Q701. Try harder. The Q701 needs STRONG desktop amps to truly shine. They work fine with little amps, but big amps are where its at for the AKGs. Head-fi has mentioned it countless times.
> The only time the E11 should be sufficient is when hooking it up to the Mixamp for gaming. For music and non gaming, you will want amps usually in the $250+ range.


 
  I tried the combination of the Mix Amp as well for gaming as well  The reason I got the e11 was to see if an amp actually improved the SQ of the Q701s, to a noticable degree, before I tried to jump into the more expensive ( and harder to return ) amp category. 
   
  $250+ though? Damn. The O2 is only $150, and the E9 is $100 - so neither of those will be good enough either?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mehdi said:


> I just double checked, the voltage is set to high.
> 
> I tried the combination of the Mix Amp as well for gaming as well  The reason I got the e11 was to see if an amp actually improved the SQ of the Q701s, to a noticable degree, before I tried to jump into the more expensive ( and harder to return ) amp category.
> 
> $250+ though? Damn. The O2 is only $150, and the E9 is $100 - so neither of those will be good enough either?


 
  Both the O2 (Objective 2) and Fiio E9 will do a fairly good job of driving the 62-Ohm Q701s.
  I've heard that the Little Dot 1+ Hybrid does a good job.
  I'm sure there are decently priced headphones amps (made in China) on eBay that can drive the Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 does a decent job, but the NFB5 is a clear step up.

Your problem is you are using a portable amp. The AKG's bare minimum for real amping to make a difference is a desktop amp.


----------



## Drastion

I have finally got my dss in the mail. I got mainly for the bass boost and headset that was more of just something to give to a friend. But the boost seems to be off. So I listened to a test tone and the boost didn't kick in untill the last 20% of the dial. I still have room to adjust. Seems odd to go from nothing to full o. in such a small movement. 

 Also looking at getting a bass heavy headphone that doesn't loose mids for the sake of slam. Was wanting a denon but now they are priced way to high for what they are worth. So I am mainly looking at either a dt 990/600 or ultrasone hfi 2400. Those or a he 400 just can never seem to find them on sale. 

 Anyone know if a beyer T1 would be better for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard the T1s are stellar gaming cans... if you can afford them. The bass isn't much more than DT880s (FWIH) though, so I dunno if that's enough for you. The DT990/600 are a good bet, as long as you know you can handle that treble.


----------



## Drastion

That's the part that worries me is the treble. That is what after the denons leads me to the ultrasones. Kept seeing the t1 in amazon warehouse for less than 550. That was my jump in price on the d7000. So either that or the hifiman as other than the akg k422 I have been disappointed with my recent headphone purchases. 

 Bass boosting my q40 was too much but it added better body to the q701. Sad to see you are giving up yours but you are looking at the same headphones I am. Im in no rush to get them now that the denons are gone. So should be interesting if you do get a chance to try them out.


----------



## Drastion

MLE 

 Have you had a chance to try gravity rush for for the vita yet? Don't game anywhere near as much as I used to. So only unique games like that and last guardian interest me anymore.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm waiting until I finish Apollo Justice, before I start my run of Gravity Rush. Trust me, I'm ready to play, but I don't like playing two games at once. And I'm not playing AJ a lot, so it might take awhile. I did love the Gravity Rush demo though.


----------



## XHale

The full game is more alot more awesome than the demo IMO. Being able the fly around a city is so fun.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Did you check my thread?
> 
> If you're going to use both speakers and headphones...are we talking stereo speakers, or surround speakers? If it's the latter, things just got much more complicated since the higher-end sound cards tend not to bother with more than two analog channels.


 
   
  That's a lot of information that I can't wrap my mind around, and there doesn't seem to be a comparison of the technologies. I currently do not have surround sound, but I intend to in the future. I will be using my B&W 685s and ASW610 with my AVR3312 for now when gaming on the television, and I also have AudioEngine A5+ (and D1 DAC) that I would like to use for gaming. I do not yet have a nice pair of headphones, but I anticipate using headphones just as much as my current setup. In the future, if I want surround sound, would I just use the build in DAC of the receiver through HDMI? (if graphics cards output audio though HDMI, which I do not yet know). I really don't quite know the questions to ask. I just know that audio is very important to me and that I am willing to change my setup to accompany more immersive sound.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> That's a lot of information that I can't wrap my mind around, and there doesn't seem to be a comparison of the technologies. I currently do not have surround sound, but I intend to in the future. I will be using my B&W 685s and ASW610 with my AVR3312 for now when gaming on the television, and I also have AudioEngine A5+ (and D1 DAC) that I would like to use for gaming. I do not yet have a nice pair of headphones, but I anticipate using headphones just as much as my current setup. In the future, if I want surround sound, would I just use the build in DAC of the receiver through HDMI? (if graphics cards output audio though HDMI, which I do not yet know). I really don't quite know the questions to ask. I just know that audio is very important to me and that I am willing to change my setup to accompany more immersive sound.


 
  I like the idea of running HDMI from the graphics card to the receiver.
  HDMI can carry full Blu-ray 7.1 Audio, so 5.1 gaming audio is easy for HDMI.
  The one drawback is the Denon 3312 receiver may not support Dolby Virtual Headphone for true headphone surround sound.
  The Denon has Dolby Headphone, but that might be Dolby Pro logic only.
   
  If you added an Asus Xonar DX or D1 to your computer, you could run optical from the Xonar to the Denon.
  Then you would have Dolby Virtual Headphone 5.1 for when you plug the headphones into the Denon receiver.
  But still use the HDMI of any time your not using headphones.
   
  The Denon 3312 receiver's headphone jack might have a high impedance, which is not the best for low Ohm headphones.
  I would think the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250-Ohm would be a good choice for headphones.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I like the idea of running HDMI from the graphics card to the receiver.
> HDMI can carry full Blu-ray 7.1 Audio, so 5.1 gaming audio is easy for HDMI.
> The one drawback is the Denon 3312 receiver may not support Dolby Virtual Headphone for true headphone surround sound.
> The Denon has Dolby Headphone, but that might be Dolby Pro logic only.
> ...


 
  I don't want to limit myself to the best headphone for the AVR. I will be using the computer in two locations, and I may find that I prefer the A5+ and headphone solution more accommodating to my needs. 
   
  Also, if I ran optical from the Xonar to the Denon, wouldn't relying the DAC in the Denon keep me from achieving Dolby Virtual Surround 5.1?
   
  Anyways, I am so far out of the loop. What is the difference between Dolby Headphone and Dolby Virtual Surround and all the other crazy headphone DSPs? I basically want to know what is commonly accepted as the best method to experience immersive audio for gaming. 
   
  Sooo... I feel like the priority is for headphones because if I want to use surround sound, I can use a receiver. Does using a stereo speaker setup work similarly to headphones? Am I right in thinking that surround sound processing should be left to devices besides the computer?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> That's a lot of information that I can't wrap my mind around, and there doesn't seem to be a comparison of the technologies. I currently do not have surround sound, but I intend to in the future. I will be using my B&W 685s and ASW610 with my AVR3312 for now when gaming on the television, and I also have AudioEngine A5+ (and D1 DAC) that I would like to use for gaming. I do not yet have a nice pair of headphones, but I anticipate using headphones just as much as my current setup. In the future, if I want surround sound, would I just use the build in DAC of the receiver through HDMI? (if graphics cards output audio though HDMI, which I do not yet know). I really don't quite know the questions to ask. I just know that audio is very important to me and that I am willing to change my setup to accompany more immersive sound.


 
   
  I was concerned my guide would do that to some people...
   
  By "comparison of the technologies", do you mean CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, etc.? That's why I linked these videos. They can give you a loose idea of what to expect, though I have the feeling that I really need to record my own. With your speaker system, you could even step up to the Smyth Realiser and calibrate it at home if you have $2,500+ to spend on a headphone surround DSP...
   
  For your speaker system, modern graphics cards with HDMI outputs do have the audio path implemented, so no worries about HD movie bitstreaming or whatnot. You don't even need to futz around with Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect with HDMI for surround sound in games, since HDMI has enough bandwidth for 8 channels of PCM. Older games with hardware-accelerated EAX effects likely won't let you enable them without switching to a sound card, though, which is obviously undesirable if you play anything old enough to use them. (Seems like I'm the only one who still cares about old PC games around here.)
   
  And, yes, that would basically be using the receiver's DAC by feeding it an HDMI audio signal.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I don't want to limit myself to the best headphone for the AVR. I will be using the computer in two locations, and I may find that I prefer the A5+ and headphone solution more accommodating to my needs.
> 
> Also, if I ran optical from the Xonar to the Denon, wouldn't relying the DAC in the Denon keep me from achieving Dolby Virtual Surround 5.1?
> 
> ...


 
  The Xonar DX & D1 can pre-process Dolby Virtual Headphone before sending down the optical to the Denon.
   
  "Dolby Headphone" can be used to describe several different Dolby headphone functions.
  So receivers can have the sticker that say "Dolby Headphone", but not support all Dolby Headphone functions.
  The important one is Dolby Virtual Headphone, which can take up to 8 channels (7.1) of audio and convert it to 2-channel audio, to feed thru your headphones, into your ears, tricking your ears into thinking you are hearing surround sound, It's easy as your ears are only 2-channels (right and left ear) anyway.
  I believe something like Dolby Pro logic is and older and less effective surround sound tech.
  Some Dolby Logic takes just 2-channels of audio and expands it to a fake 6-channel audio.
   
  True Dolby Headphone surround sound is usually done by non-receiver devices, like sound cards, Astro Mix-amp, Turtle Beach DSS, etc.
  But it might help to look up reviews on your Denon receiver, I believe some really high priced receivers came with true Dolby headphone surround sound (maybe).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, Pro Logic is also processed into Dolby Headphone. It has just as good surround cues as Dolby Digital being converted into DH, but it just sounds more processed. Pro Logic isn't a headphone tech. It's just the process of virtualizing surround through a 2 channel signal... mostly useful if your source has RCA output, and not digital.

I fail to see how a receiver that mentions Dolby Headphone, would be anything less than the actual Dolby Headphone. DH is just the process that takes a Dolby Digital/Pro Logic signal and converts it for headphones.

If the signal being being sent to the receiver is Dolby Digital, the receiver will convert it to Dolby headphone. It's the same exact processing that the Mixamp/DSS/AX720/etc do, just built into the receiver. In fact the receiver will probably have more than just one standardized setting found on these amps.

Obviously, a Dolby Digital signal can only be sent via optical, digital coaxial, or HDMI.

Or am I not understanding what you're trying to say?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Uhh, Pro Logic is also processed into Dolby Headphone. It has just as good surround cues as Dolby Digital being converted into DH, but it just sounds more processed. Pro Logic isn't a headphone tech. It's just the process of virtualizing surround through a 2 channel signal... mostly useful if your source has RCA output, and not digital.
> I fail to see how a receiver that mentions Dolby Headphone, would be anything less than the actual Dolby Headphone. DH is just the process that takes a Dolby Digital/Pro Logic signal and converts it for headphones.
> If the signal being being sent to the receiver is Dolby Digital, the receiver will convert it to Dolby headphone. It's the same exact processing that the Mixamp/DSS/AX720/etc do, just built into the receiver. In fact the receiver will probably have more than just one standardized setting found on these amps.
> Obviously, a Dolby Digital signal can only be sent via optical, digital coaxial, or HDMI.
> Or am I not understanding what you're trying to say?


 
   
  Dolby Pro logic can decode 5 signals from a 2-channel audio track. Which was great as VHS can only have 2 audio channel tracks (I guess?), so you get some surround sound.
  DVD can have 6 separate audio channels (5.1) on one disk (lots of room), I'm sure each one channel holds more audio then then one channel on VHS.
  I'm also guessing having 6 (5.1) separate channels (audio signals?) is cleaner then 2-channels holding 5 audio signals.
  Dobly Digital 5.1 is what to audio is called on DVD movie disks.
  Dolby Vitrual Headphone can take all 6 (or 8) channels and convert is to 2-channels that feed into headphone
  Dolby Pro Logic for Headphones is only design to work with (access) a 2-channel feed, not design to work with separate 6 to 8 channel feed
  Anyone that want to include some form of Dobly Headphone in their device, VHS tape, VHS players, DVDs, Blu-ray, receivers, etc. has to pay Dolby royalties.
  Dolby says if you want to have a receiver with Dolby Pro Logic for headphones, pay Dolby $1 for each receiver
  Dolby says if you want to have a receiver with Dolby Virtual Headphone pay $3 for each receiver.
  Receiver manufacturers want to keep cost down, so they one pay the $1 per receiver, but they still get to label their receivers with the title "Dolby Headphone".
  This is really dealing in theory with Dolby headphone only, not about how payments work for all the other Dolby tech.
   
  Maybe a better way to explain it.
  Those that manufacturer the chips and other stuff that go into everything audio.
  I'm guessing they pay the royalties to Dolby
  So a chip that includes Dolby Pro Logic (Headphone) pays an extra .50 cents per chip, and (Dolby Virtual Headphone) 5.1 pays an extra $1.50 per chip.
   
  I'm guessing sound cards use Dolby processed in software, maybe the card makers pay a fixed fee once a year to include all the Dolby software.
  As it's software, it's a very cheap royaltie to include Dobly Virtual Headphone.
   
  I'm not sure how exact my figures are in what i've written, more of a theory about the royalties, just to get the idea acrossed.
   
  I keep having to rewrites this because Firefox keeps crashing every five minutes, so I was a bit rushed in writing, may need to fix it in the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What is confusing is me about what you're saying is that Pro Logic isn't a headphone tech. There is absolutely nothing Dolby pro Logic related when plugging in your headphones to a receiver with it, other than when Dolby headphone is enabled, if they do have it. The only way to get Dolby Pro Logic to your headphones is with Dolby Headphone/or some other form of headphone surround tech. There is no benefit to labeling a receiver Dolby Headphone, if it only has Dolby Pro Logic. 



> Dolby says if you want to have a receiver with Dolby Pro Logic for headphones, pay Dolby $1 for each receiver




That makes no sense. There is no Dolby Pro Logic for headphones unless the Pro Logic is re-processed for two channel, meaning Dolby Headphone HAS to be used. That or some no-name surround virtualization for headphones.

Pro Logic is turning two channel audio to multiple channel (for multiple speakers). That does not work on headphones.

There is no reason to believe a Denon receiver labelled as having Dolby Headphone wouldn't have it. Again, Pro Logic is not a headphone tech, and wouldn't ever reach your headphones without something converting it back to 2 channel.

The only possibility of full mislabeling is if the receiver states as having Dolby Headphone, and there not being any form of surround emulation when wearing headphones. Again: Pro Logic is simply not a thing for headphones. Stuff like the Mixamp turns Pro Logic into Dolby Headphone, and that's the only possible way to get it to your ears without it being plain stereo with no surround emulation.

edit: Let me clarify... Pro Logic on headphones isn't possible on typical headphones. Unless you have a multiple driver headphone like the Logitech G35/Tritton AX pro which are basically a surround sound setup directly on your head...and not very good ones.

The end result of Pro Logic is multiple channel audio. It's the same result as Dolby Digital. Sure, Pro Logic originated from a 2 channel source, but it ends up as multi-channel.

You can't have Dolby Digital on your headphones without processing back down to two channel. Same goes for Pro Logic. Dolby Headphone is one such processing.

That is why I question what you're saying, as you can't have Pro Logic go to the headphones without DH, therefore making your whole argument about the Denon receivers illogical.


----------



## Evshrug

Whew! Been catching up on this thread for days, though I still missed a lot of stuff. By catching up I mean last time I read this was before MLE added the Q701 section, I think.

I would love some advice, though I realize asking here is likely to give me a particular response, lol. I've tried making my own mind up, and I'm leaning one way, but I would greatly appreciate outside opinions.

First off, I currently own the AD700, Sennheiser PX100, Etymotic ER6i IEMs, and I just recently bought a pair of V-MODA Crossfade LP by accident. Now, I'm still quite into gaming, mostly CoD4 (yes people still play that, though every other host seems to be modded these days), Halo Reach, and my adventure games (Dead Space, Red Dead Redemption, Alan Wake, Batman:AA & City... Myst. Any new myst-esque games?).
 I also love music, such as Arcade Fire (alt-rock with many layers), Philip Glass (instead of doing weed LOL, classical music with soundstage & layers), and occasionally trip-hop and dub (which I think are better suited to speakers and subwoofers). 
I like to hear music as the artist and producer wanted them mixed, but at the same time I find myself getting bored or un-immersed when listening through my AD700 compared to the overly-bassy V-MODA LPs, which themselves lack the detail of the AD700.

The meat of my question: would I notice a fuller sound (and still the great gaming I enjoy using my AD700s) if I upgraded to the AKG Q701, or should I wait for the soon-to-be-released V-MODA M-100 closed headphones? 
People rave about the V-MODA M-80 that the M-100's signature is based on, plus an amp is optional and wouldn't be too unusual to use on an airplane or other commuting, MEANWHILE the AKG sound is closer to the signature I enjoy in my AD700s, just hopefully increasing the presence, immersion, and detail-separation, while providing the non-overheating comfort and layered soundstage I love about my AD700s. If anyone reads my pretty in-depth AD700 review, I mention at the end what I think is lacking in my current set-up.

Please help an endless waffler make his mind up? I did enjoy my AD700s for many years, but I only tend to take them out of their box now when I have a new album as I am waiting till I move out of my mom's to set up my permenant reference set-up (for gaming and music, about 60:40%). Thank you much guys!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 is a gigantic leap over the AD700 in sound quality. Everything you have an issue with the AD700s is more or less addressed with the Q701. It's the most logical upgrade.

The V Modas are closed headphones, which can't compare in terms of the sound presentation in an open headphone.


----------



## crzycuyler

Well, this process is going to take a while, but these replies are educational. Thanks for that. By the way, what is thought of the K550s for gaming?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The meat of my question: would I notice a fuller sound (and still the great gaming I enjoy using my AD700s) if I upgraded to the AKG Q701, or should I wait for the soon-to-be-released V-MODA M-100 closed headphones?\


 
   
   
  Yes.  The day I got my Q701s I put my AD700s up for sale.  I was holding on to the AD700s because they were special to me (my first audiophile headphones!), but after I heard the Q701 I knew I would never listen to the AD700 again.  The Q701s have less soundstage width, but they do everything else better and have infinitely more bass and fullness.
   
   
  I'm not holding my breath for any V-moda headphones to perform great at gaming as they're a completely different beast (closed, supra-aural, etc.).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What is confusing is me about what you're saying is that Pro Logic isn't a headphone tech. There is absolutely nothing Dolby pro Logic related when plugging in your headphones to a receiver with it, other than when Dolby headphone is enabled, if they do have it. The only way to get Dolby Pro Logic to your headphones is with Dolby Headphone/or some other form of headphone surround tech. There is no benefit to labeling a receiver Dolby Headphone, if it only has Dolby Pro Logic.  Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I just recheck Dolby's website, "Dolby Headphone" is based on Dolby Pro logic, and it's based on a 2-channel feed (2 "special" Dolby audio tracks).
  It's designed to read a Dolby 2-channel audio feed and can up process it to a "simulated" or "realistic" 7.1 headphone surround sound.
  I'm sure the 2 front audio channels on a DVD (or Blu-ray?) movie contain extra info for Dolby Pro logic to "simulate" a 7.1 surround sound for headphones.
  But "Dolby Headphone" is only dealing with whatever audio they can fit into the two (front?) audio tracks.
  So when someone puts their movie disk (DVD/Blu-ray) in to their player and plugs their headphone into a "Dolby Headphone" receiver, there only getting whatever Dolby Audio is in the two "front" tracks.
  Not the whole 6 to 8 channel/tracks (Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 7.1) audio they get when they play the same disk thru their 5.1 or 7.1 speakers.
   
  Dolby Virtual Headphone is headphone surround sound audio from all 6 to 8 channels, so all 6 or 8 channels are then converted (special mixing) into 2-channel audio to create "Dolby Virtual Headphone".
   
  I've checked Dolby's website, they are very careful about which word they use the describe "Dolby Headphone". Dolby only uses word to describe Dolby Headphone as using 2-channels, "simulated" and "realistic" is using word trickery.
   
  The Astro Mix-amp. Pro is listed as Dolby Digital 7.1, so it does use more then 2 audio channels to process into a Headphone surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Mixamp 5.8, old Mixamp, AX720, DSS, all have Dolby Headphone, and all sound the exact same, even when they are marketed as only 5.1, or 7.1 now, etc.

You can't get ANY more than Dolby Digital 5.1 from an optical source, which is the only digital surround source that these devices can take. 



> But "Dolby Headphone" is only dealing with whatever audio they can fit into the two (front?) audio tracks.
> 
> So when someone puts their movie disk (DVD/Blu-ray) in to their player and plugs their headphone into a "Dolby Headphone" receiver, there only getting whatever Dolby Audio is in the two "front" tracks.
> 
> Not the whole 6 to 8 channel/tracks (Dolby Digital 5.1 or Dolby TrueHD 7.1) audio they get when they play the same disk thru their 5.1 or 7.1 speakers.




This is absolutely not true. Please link to this statement.

The tech used converts all audio from the multiple speakers (5.1), and compresses them into two channels. ALL audio, not just the two front tracks. I dunno where the hell people are coming up with these things.


----------



## Phos

Technically it might be using 8 channels, but the last two aren't actually transmitted over optical.  I think the receiver makes them by mixing other channels.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Mixamp 5.8, old Mixamp, AX720, DSS, all have Dolby Headphone, and all sound the exact same, even when they are marketed as only 5.1, or 7.1 now, etc.
> You can't get ANY more than Dolby Digital 5.1 from a optical source, which is the only digital surround source that these devices can take. So Dolby is flat out lying when they state more than 5 channels or 7.1 from an optical/digital coaxial source. It's a marketing gimmick, that they can get away with because the processing doesn't sound like 5 individual speakers, but more of a full 360 degree sound field.  Quote:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Dolby Headphone Technical Features     Compatible with native 5.1-channel content
  Transforms two-channel (stereo) content into surround sound when combined with Dolby Pro Logic® II
  Delivers 7.1-channel surround experience from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic IIz
   
   
  In the above statement from Dolby, it never states it's using 6-channels (like Dolby Digital 5.1), it just say "compatible" with 5.1, then it goes on talking about transforming two-channel (stereo) using Pro logic, delivering 7.1 surround "experience" from pre-processed Pro logic, which was from a two-channel (stereo) source. So the first line sounds like some sort of "5.1 surround sound" , but the next two line explain it as Pro Logic transformed from a 2-channel (stereo).
   Read all the descriptions on Dolby Headphone using Dolby Pro Logic, all they talk about is the ways Dolby Pro logic enhances special 2-channel audio for Headphones, nothing out there says anything about Dolby Pro Logic truely processing from 6 or 8 channels into Headphone surround sound. Find the website that say I'm wrong and post the link, please.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Here is the link to Dolby's website where they expain "Dolby Headphone".
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html


----------



## chicolom

I thought the original pro logic had to do with speakers and not headphones....
  
  From what I understand, DH is 5.1 mixed back down into stereo with HRTFs to simulate hearing a 5.1/7.1 system.  Pro Logic is either 2 channel signal processed to simulate _dolby headphone_ (sound like it's a 5.1 system), or it actually upconverts the 2 channels into 5.1 channels to be used with a device that's looking for multi-channel audio to decode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Sorry for the million edits. Trying to clean the post up to make more sense...




Sigh... I already mentioned that...



> Transforms two-channel (stereo) content into surround sound when combined with Dolby Pro Logic® II




This is OBVIOUS. Pro Logic is the process of converting a stereo signal with Pro Logic to a virtualized surround sound to all speakers. This is NOT a headphone tech.

This also has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Dolby Headphone, just as Dolby Digital doesn't have anything to do with it at it's core. 

DD and DPII (no way related to headphone tech) is added to Dolby Headphone which takes these two signals and converts them for headphone use. That is ALL.

You're causing unnecessary confusion, Purpleangel. The Denon receiver works the same as these specialized amps.

Dolby Headphone (regardless of device used) is a processing that takes said two and virtualizes them for headphone use. Get it?

He's making it sound like Pro Logic is a substitute to Dolby Headphone which is just wrong in every way. Dolby Headphone either decodes Dolby Digital OR Pro Logic II for virtual surround. That is all. Without one of these two, Dolby Headphone won't work (which is why Blu-Rays encoded with DTS will never get proper surround with things like the Mixamp).

The only time anyone will use Pro Logic II for Dolby Headphone to decode, is when:

-when the source is outputting Dolby Digital but is hooked up to a Dolby Headphone device (i.e. Mixamp) via non-digital connections (like RCA) and not a digital one (like optical or digital coaxial) and whatever device in use is outputting Dolby Digital. That DD signal will downconvert automatically to a Pro Logic II before it arrives to the DH device.

-when you specifically tell your source to output Dolby Pro Logic II instead of Dolby Digital. This can be done on either the hardware level or software. Examples: Uncharted 2 on the PS3 has sound settings which let you choose Dolby Digital 5.1 or Pro Logic II. Example 2: DVD Player with sound settings that allow you to choose Pro Logic II.

Just as standard Dolby Digital is hidden inside a Dolby True HD track, so is Pro Logic II hidden inside a Dolby Digital track. They are there for when a device can't take the higher end option. For example: Watching a Blu-Ray with Dolby True HD (rare nowadays) through an optical connection will automatically fall back to Dolby Digital, since Dolby True HD doesn't work via optical. Dolby Digital won't work through RCA, so it falls back to Pro Logic II.

In any case, Pro Logic alone will NOT work through a headphone jack. Zilch, zip, nada.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> ....Pro Logic is either 2 channel signal processed to simulate _dolby headphone_ (sound like it's a 5.1 system), or it actually upconverts the 2 channels into 5.1 channels to be used with a device that's looking for multi-channel audio to decode.


 
   
  So it sounds like it's the latter?  DH is looking for 5.1 channels, and if it can't get it from Dolby Digital 5.1 it will get it from Dolby Pro Logic II.  So all Dolby Headphone devices must have Pro Logic, but not vice a versa...?....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anything with Dolby Digital will have Pro Logic II even if it's not advertised (Pro Logic II is just the fall back for when Dolby Digital isn't possible due to 2 channel only outputs). It's hidden in the DD track. And yes, Pro Logic II is the process of turning Pro Logic embedded stereo signal into multi channel surround sound. It's not just ANY stereo signal.

Dolby Headphone is it's own technology that will take in either DD or PLII. PLII isn't built into DH, just as DD isn't...

I used to use Pro Logic II on my old Pioneer surround sound system. Worked like a charm and gave a convincing surround sound cues to my speakers.

If you happen to have a Nintendo Wii and a surround sound, you'll see just how well Pro Logic II works.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I thought the original pro logic had to do with speakers and not headphones....
> 
> From what I understand, DH is 5.1 mixed back down into stereo with HRTFs to simulate hearing a 5.1/7.1 system.  Pro Logic is either 2 channel signal processed to simulate _dolby headphone_ (sound like it's a 5.1 system), or it actually upconverts the 2 channels into 5.1 channels to be used with a device that's looking for multi-channel audio to decode.


 
  Dolby trys to use "funny' words to describe "Dolby Headphone" on their website, per their website "Dolby Headphone" uses 2 channels, that Dolby Pro logic can use to "simulate" 7.1 for headphones.
  Anyone who make a device with more (newer) Dolby Headphone stuff then this feature I'm sure can still call it "Dolby Headphone".
  There are several revisions of Dolby Pro Logic that do more then that i've listed so far.
  The Astro Pro Mix-amp can use a newer revision (2009) of the Dolby Pro logic and can easy use the term "Dolby Headphone", heck, why not..
  But something else, like a new A/V receiver and say it has "Dolby Headphone", but it could be using an older Dolby Pro logic from the year 2000.
   
  As far as I can tell, only "Dolby Virtual Headphone" can start with a true 6-channel audio signal (like on a Movie DVD or 8-channel audio signal (Like Blu-ray disk) and convert it to Dolby Virtual Headphone (2-channel) 7.1 surround sound.
   
  So Dolby Pro logic for Speakers can expand from 2-channel or 5.1 channel audio to up to 7.1 for speakers.
  And  Dolby Pro logic for Headphones can "simulate" from 2-channels a (faked) 7.1 surround audio feed to headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh, I'm done trying to explain it to you. Making my head hurt.

To ANYONE ELSE: If you have a device with Dolby Headphone and feed it Dolby Digital, you'll send a true surround signal that's converted to 2 channel and sent to your headphones. If you have a device with Dolby headhone and feed it a Pro Logic II signal, you'll send a processed stereo signal that was upmixed to surround then downmixed again for headphone use.

It's that simple.

Think of PLII as the opposite of Dolby Headphone. Instead of packing a surround sound signal to two channels, it is taking a processed 2 channel signal and making it virtual surround for multiple channels. Each channel will then have their own audio cues, like real surround, though not as good.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anything with Dolby Digital will have Pro Logic II even if it's not advertised (Pro Logic II is just the fall back for when Dolby Digital isn't possible due to 2 channel only outputs). It's hidden in the DD track. And yes, Pro Logic II is the process of turning Pro Logic embedded stereo signal into multi channel surround sound. It's not just ANY stereo signal.
> Dolby Headphone is it's own technology that will take in either DD or PLII. PLII isn't built into DH, just as DD isn't...
> I used to use Pro Logic II on my old Pioneer surround sound system. Worked like a charm and gave a convincing surround sound cues to my speakers.
> If you happen to have a Nintendo Wii and a surround sound, you'll see just how well Pro Logic II works.


 
  "PLII isnt built into DH"
  Did you read up on Dolby's website, Dolby's definition of "Dolby Headphone" only includes Dolby Pro logic and only it's use when used for headphones, not Dolby Digital.
  Dolby lets anyone use the term Dolby Headphone to hid those Dolby products that are more limted then others (like receivers).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jesus man... 



> Dolby Headphone Technical Features
> 
> Compatible with native 5.1-channel content
> 
> ...




What part are you NOT understanding?

The first point = DOLBY DIGITAL. That is a Dolby site. Native 5.1 in their terms IS Dolby Digital, Dolby True HD, etc. It will not do DTS because it's not a Dolby encoding. They should clarify this, since native 5.1 comes in more flavors than just Dolby.

The second point = Pro Logic II, because if you are sending a stereo signal (pre-processed with Pro Logic II), it will go that route. It's right there. *WHEN COMBINED* with Pro Logic II. Again, they should've clarified for easier understanding. Perhaps they should've said "from content preprocessed with Dolby Pro Logic II", just as they did in the next point. Good examples of stereo content processed with Pro Logic II are Nintendo Wii games and some PS2 games.

The third point is the newer Pro Logic...if you have a source that is outputting Pro Logic IIz.

Not enough facepalms in the world...

Dolby Headphone is a *DECODER*. Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II are what's *ENCODED* in the content (i.e. DVD, games, Blu-rays) we're listening to... unless you wanna debate that these devices are both encoding and decoding which is just...stupid. Common sense really.




What I wanna know is about non-Dolby Headphone virtual surround processors like the DSS2 and Sony's own form of virtual surround, and if they work with all forms of multi-channel audio, or if they are locked to a few. I'd personally pay a logical amount of money for a non-PC related device that decodes DTS, Dolby, barebones multi-channel audio, as long as it's good or better than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Jesus man...  Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Dolby Headphone (Dolby Pro logic) can work off 2-channels of a 5.1 channel, that's can be called "compatible".
  Compatible with native 5.1 channel content, which could really say will still play simple 2-channel stereo of any native 5.1 channel content.
  "Compatible with Dolby Digital 5.1" is what it would say if what you said is true. using the "native" does not say, will not work with DTS, you would think Dolby would be more clear.
  Dolby Digital (AC-3) 5.1 surround defined by Dolby uses all 5.1 channels, and clearly state it, "Dolby Headphone" dances around with word games.
  You really think the people that take care of the web pages are going to not clearly define a feature, that they do well on their other web pages?
  Modem audio can store (DVD, Blu-ray, hard drive) and pass along 6-channel and 8-channel audio easily (HDMI, Optical) why would a 6 or 8 channel audio need to be pre-process down (compressed) to Dolby Pro Logic 2-channel? Would not Dolby Digial Live be better? you going to lose a lot of audio quality compressing using Pro logic. I think the people at Dolby would have figured that out.
  I really can not figure out why anyone would compress 6 or 8 moden audio channels audio down to Dolby Pro logic 2-channel?
  DVDs have been out for 15 years and can hold 6 channels of Dolby Digital audio, why would anything need to compress audio with Dolby Logic 2-channel audio?
  You said that Dolby Pro Logic can process Dolby Digital (Native 5.1), so what use is there for compressed Dolby Pro logic 2-channel for the passed 15 years?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I give up.


----------



## calpis

DH can process both stereo and Dolby Digital 5/7.1. But using DH for a stereo source is lame and should never be done. DH can be used to process any sound going into it but is only truly utilized when getting a Dolby Digital surround signal.
   
  I personally have my xbox360 hooked up to a Harman Kardon avr-254 receiver via hdmi and I do get to use DH at its fullest. I also have my pc connected to it via optical and can turn on DH while listening to flac with foobar but who in their right mind would do that. As long as it's stated in the manual or has the DH logo on the receiver itself then there should be no doubt that you're getting a real DH experience when fed the right source..


----------



## NamelessPFG

*sighs* Didn't think it would get that long and protracted.
   
  Mad Lust Envy is right on the money. Dolby Pro Logic (II) is a means of encoding/matrixing extra surround channels into two analog channels. It's not as ideal as Dolby Digital due to crosstalk (which happens to any signal that can't be kept discrete from another, especially analog ones), but there are decoders that can extract them from PLII-processed sources.
   
  Emphasis on that last bit: Pro Logic II is NOT plain stereo. It'll sound like stereo if you don't have a decoder that supports it, but the cues are there in the signal. I know due to testing some of my GCN/Wii games (which generally use PLII as a rule) with my SU-DH1.


----------



## canbebetter

Hi!

 I'm looking for advice on which headphones (headsets) to choose. I'm going to buy ASUS Xonar DG, and I'm torn between CAL! + clip on mic (Zalman probably) and Siberia V2.
 Since Siberia V2 has as many lovers as haters, and only reviews I've found are 'gaming portal's" or "pc hardware's" ones (which haters impute that they're are paid for), I don't know what to believe.
 Mad Lust Envy wrote that V2 version is known to be 'pretty good', so maybe this headset is good enough to compete with CAL. (I had V1 ver for about two years, they were super comfy, but I broke them while snowboarding ;( ). I also liked one side wire (vs. CAL both sides).
   
  I haven't tried CAL! on my head yet.
 I can get Siberia V2 or CAL! with Zalman for about 70$.
   
   
  (I read whole guide, it's great. Unfortunately, most of the headphones are out of my budget, or are unavailable in my country.)

 Please, I'll be grateful for any suggestion.
   
  ---
  cbb


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CALs are super comfy. The Siberia V2 should also be a dream to wear, though not sure they'll stack up to the CAL in sound quality.


----------



## crzycuyler

In case my question got trampled by that conversation I'll ask again, does anyone know how the AKG K550s perform for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

So, I'm about to take the jump and purchase a pair of Q701s, and I'm very excited. Look at the freq. graphs comparing it to my current headphones... It's like it takes the best of everything I have and puts them into one, while the finesse at each Freq is assuredly more refined.
[=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=2661&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=2591&graphID%5B%5D=1823][/]
It takes the modestly warm PX 100 bass, the balanced mids of the Etymotic ER6i, and the extended highs of the Audio Technica AD700! This will be my most consistent and balanced headphone ever, along with other goodies!



crzycuyler said:


> In case my question got trampled by that conversation I'll ask again, does anyone know how the AKG K550s perform for gaming?



Can't say in your case for sure, but I didn't want you to feel ignored 
The few impressions I've read on the AKG K550 have been very positive, you should search for their impressions for sound quality. Especially since this thread is mostly about headphones tested and compared by the OP, and he hasn't heard those. 

So here's a little exercise Going off what MLE said as a general rule of thumb. First, consider the closed-headphone fact. In very rare cases do closed headphones have any appreciable soundstage, one notable exception to that is MLE's Denon D7000, which seems to be a bit of a house specialty. 
Second, look at this freq graph: [=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=3571&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=283][/]
Based on that, these are probably more "fun" headphones than competitive, with pretty strong sub-bass which complicates the slightly recessed mids. The treble spike may help you hear a grenade pin, but the overall signature would make sound whoring for footsteps and bullet ZIP! sounds buried beneath the bass. Take all that with a grain of salt however... Imaging and direction may be good or bad (probably good from AKG @ this price point), and the +5 bass boost is far from aggressive or "Bass MONSTERRRR!" You could do worse, but there are some great KNOWN headphones around the $300 price level that might be a more reliably competitive buy.

YMMV, good luck!


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> So, I'm about to take the jump and purchase a pair of Q701s, and I'm very excited. Look at the freq. graphs comparing it to my current headphones... It's like it takes the best of everything I have and puts them into one, while the finesse at each Freq is assuredly more refined.
> [=http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=2661&graphID%5B%5D=2931&graphID%5B%5D=2591&graphID%5B%5D=1823][/]
> It takes the modestly warm PX 100 bass, the balanced mids of the Etymotic ER6i, and the extended highs of the Audio Technica AD700! This will be my most consistent and balanced headphone ever, along with other goodies!
> Can't say in your case for sure, but I didn't want you to feel ignored
> ...


 
   
  I do not play any competitive first person shooters. I play games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, StarCraft, Diablo... I want to be more fully immersed. Is that the "fun" factor? The D7000 sounds impressive. Isn't a headphone that gives good directional feel also an immersive set? It would allow you to be more fully immersed. Am I wrong?


----------



## Evshrug

crzycuyler said:


> I do not play any competitive first person shooters. I play games like Skyrim, Fallout 3, StarCraft, Diablo... I want to be more fully immersed. Is that the "fun" factor? The D7000 sounds impressive. Isn't a headphone that gives good directional feel also an immersive set? It would allow you to be more fully immersed. Am I wrong?



You really ought to read the first post, it is up to date and explains a lot. I was saying "Fun" vs. "Competitive." Many things can make gaming immersive, sound and directional soun is part of a greater whole. So you're partly right. Some of it is personal preference, like in my case I think it's cool when you hear a sound that you aren't sure came from the headphone or something in your room. To others immersion = exciting sound, where things are boosted and the visual/audio special effects are impossible to ignore.

Skyrim and Fallout are about as "Immersive" as games get presently, though I would say Starcraft and Diablo are definitely competitive games (even if you're just competing with the game). What kind of headphones do you have now? Have you experienced Dolby Headphone to simulate surround sound, and does that interest you? Are you looking to buy new headphones? What is your price budget? You may be able to get more immersive sound by buying something other than a new headphone, and all the info on the first page of this thread (starting with the Astro Mixamp, though I use my receiver for Dolby Headphone) is the best place to start narrowing things down.

 The Denon D7000 usually retails for about $1000 US, for your information. I have just bought the pinnacle of my headphone collection, the AKG Q701. I see it as quite possibly the peak quality headphone I'll get while my ears are good, any further audio dalliances will probably be amps and floorstanding speakers down the line.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You really ought to read the first post, it is up to date and explains a lot. I was saying "Fun" vs. "Competitive." Many things can make gaming immersive, sound and directional soun is part of a greater whole. So you're partly right. Some of it is personal preference, like in my case I think it's cool when you hear a sound that you aren't sure came from the headphone or something in your room. To others immersion = exciting sound, where things are boosted and the visual/audio special effects are impossible to ignore.
> Skyrim and Fallout are about as "Immersive" as games get presently, though I would say Starcraft and Diablo are definitely competitive games (even if you're just competing with the game). What kind of headphones do you have now? Have you experienced Dolby Headphone to simulate surround sound, and does that interest you? Are you looking to buy new headphones? What is your price budget? You may be able to get more immersive sound by buying something other than a new headphone, and all the info on the first page of this thread (starting with the Astro Mixamp, though I use my receiver for Dolby Headphone) is the best place to start narrowing things down.
> The Denon D7000 usually retails for about $1000 US, for your information.


 
   
  I do not yet have any headphones. I own speakers and am looking to get into headphones now. I have access to incredible discounts on many popular headphones due to my job. I am planing on building a computer in the Fall/Winter. I have not experienced Dolby Headphone. Although StarCraft and Diablo are competitive, they does not require directional queues. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series thrill me and I want to get the best balance of soundstage (directional queues) and a flat enough response that details are not left out of most any frequency. I want bass, but not so much that it dilutes any other frequencies. From the little I've read, I am led to believe that the D7000 has excellent bass depth but does not overpower. Nonetheless, I am still in the beginning stages of this process.


----------



## matryx

Thanks I think I'm going to go with the HD598. I'm not planning to get another amp and I'm just going to stick with the Tritton AX720 decoder box. So the HD598 fits the bill.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, hopefully your job allows for deep discounts on amps too, because they become more and more of a benefit as you pick higher-tier headphones. If you want to jump straight to the top of the line, the Audize LCD3 paired with an exotic amp is probably the best out there, and yet still a bargain compared to a high-end speaker set-up. 

Still, even if money is no object it is probably wise to start out with a couple mid-Fi headphones so you can get a feel for your personal sound preferences, and find out if your hearing is healthy enough to merit the subtle differences from going higher. Also, consider how often you'd use the headphones for gaming, if you'd want to use them during commutes, and if you might be better with two headphones for different purposes. I'd say try the mid-Fi faves around here, get a pair of Ad700 for gaming (these were my main headphones for general purpose for 2 years, they ARE really good), perhaps a Grado SR60i, and a V-MODA M-80 or a Creative Aurvana Live! headphone to get a feel for the portable closed headphone experience. 

Those four are a great sampling of what you can expect from headphones, and will teach you what matters the most to you. The V-MODAs are probably the least necessary of the four, but they are also the best out of those for portable use.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, hopefully your job allows for deep discounts on amps too, because they become more and more of a benefit as you pick higher-tier headphones. If you want to jump straight to the top of the line, the Audize LCD3 paired with an exotic amp is probably the best out there, and yet still a bargain compared to a high-end speaker set-up.
> Still, even if money is no object it is probably wise to start out with a couple mid-Fi headphones so you can get a feel for your personal sound preferences, and find out if your hearing is healthy enough to merit the subtle differences from going higher. Also, consider how often you'd use the headphones for gaming, if you'd want to use them during commutes, and if you might be better with two headphones for different purposes. I'd say try the mid-Fi faves around here, get a pair of Ad700 for gaming (these were my main headphones for general purpose for 2 years, they ARE really good), perhaps a Grado SR60i, and a V-MODA M-80 or a Creative Aurvana Live! headphone to get a feel for the portable closed headphone experience.
> Those four are a great sampling of what you can expect from headphones, and will teach you what matters the most to you. The V-MODAs are probably the least necessary of the four, but they are also the best out of those for portable use.


 
   
  How about the Audio Technica A900X? I can get discounts on headphones sold at Best Buy and Magnolia (the stand alone stores with higher end equipment).


----------



## Eric_C

crzycuyler, what's stopping you from going for some of the more established setups? Instead of taking a risk on cans that haven't been talked up, like the K550 and the A900x?


----------



## Evshrug

crzycuyler said:


> How about the Audio Technica A900X? I can get discounts on headphones sold at Best Buy and Magnolia (the stand alone stores with higher end equipment).




Hmmm, seems like you want to take advantage of your employment, but don't really know all that much about headphones. I'm going to assume Magnolia isn't your department, and that you really don't want to read page 1 of this thread. However, I still firmly believe you ought to read the first post on this thread, understand the difference between open and closed headphones, read the first post of the thread, and make your own choice. After you read the good subject-relevant info on the first post.

 Best Buy's limited selection of headphones will narrow your choices, so less for you to consider and research - I bet you'll end up with a Sennheiser, which is perfectly respectable. You'll also probably want a turtle beach DSS dongle or a receiver with the Dolby Headphone feature for virtual surround, as well as providing juice and volume control for the headphones.

 Good luck and hopefully have fun. Read the first post.


----------



## calpis

Just keep in mind that all the headphones reviewed in the first post are reviews based on its performance when paired with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Yes.  The day I got my Q701s I put my AD700s up for sale.  I was holding on to the AD700s because they were special to me (my first audiophile headphones!), but after I heard the Q701 I knew I would never listen to the AD700 again.  The Q701s have less soundstage width, but they do everything else better and have infinitely more bass and fullness.





I notice that, besides the Mixamp, you have the Matrix M-Audio and E10 amps. Mad Lust Envy has an E9. I've also read good things about the Objective2 amp. Do you have any suggestions or wishlists to amp the Q701 with?

I've heard that the FiiO E9 headphone jacks have a reputation for coming loose or shorting, and the iE9 version for docking iPods is especially flimsy. Any truth/weight to those rumors from anyone's perspectives?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I notice that, besides the Mixamp, you have the Matrix M-Audio and E10 amps. Mad Lust Envy has an E9. I've also read good things about the Objective2 amp. Do you have any suggestions or wishlists to amp the Q701 with?
> I've heard that the FiiO E9 headphone jacks have a reputation for coming loose or shorting, and the iE9 version for docking iPods is especially flimsy. Any truth/weight to those rumors from anyone's perspectives?


 
   
  The Matrix _M-stage_ isn't made by M-Audio 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The E9 and O2 are both good amps and both nicely priced.  I enjoyed the E9 while I had it.  
   
  You may want to make sure you want their more neutral signature first.  Personally I think the Q701s pair nicer with a slightly warm solid state amp (like the M-stage).  It's not like solid state amps differ that much, but most people seem to prefer less neutral amps with the Q701s.  More neutral amps like the E9 and O2 may make them seem brighter or thinner.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hmmm, seems like you want to take advantage of your employment, but don't really know all that much about headphones. I'm going to assume Magnolia isn't your department, and that you really don't want to read page 1 of this thread. However, I still firmly believe you ought to read the first post on this thread, understand the difference between open and closed headphones, read the first post of the thread, and make your own choice. After you read the good subject-relevant info on the first post.
> Best Buy's limited selection of headphones will narrow your choices, so less for you to consider and research - I bet you'll end up with a Sennheiser, which is perfectly respectable. You'll also probably want a turtle beach DSS dongle or a receiver with the Dolby Headphone feature for virtual surround, as well as providing juice and volume control for the headphones.
> Good luck and hopefully have fun. Read the first post.


 
   
  I actually did work in Magnolia because I was one of the product knowledgeable associates, but I transferred out because I can't stand sales. We also didn't carry any reasonable headphones until recently. I don't want to upset people by announcing prices, but we are talking about some significant discounts. I've read some very good and bad things about both the A900X and the K550. I can also get ahold of a unique assortment of headphones like the Audio Techinica W1000X, Denon D7000, and HD800 as well as some of the lower priced options mentioned. Unless convinced otherwise, I want to play it safe with budget. I know the differences between open and closed headphones, but I lean towards closed because everything makes noise in my apartment, and I want to be fully absorbed in another world when I put on a pair of headphones. My AC, room mates, and neighbors make enough noise. I am not experienced enough to know if by playing at reasonable volumes I may drown them all out, but at quiet moments in games, wouldn't a disruption be unavoidable?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I actually did work in Magnolia because I was one of the product knowledgeable associates, but I transferred out because I can't stand sales. We also didn't carry any reasonable headphones until recently. I don't want to upset people by announcing prices, but we are talking about some significant discounts. I've read some very good and bad things about both the A900X and the K550. I can also get ahold of a unique assortment of headphones like the Audio Techinica W1000X, Denon D7000, and HD800 as well as some of the lower priced options mentioned. Unless convinced otherwise, I want to play it safe with budget. I know the differences between open and closed headphones, but I lean towards closed because everything makes noise in my apartment, and I want to be fully absorbed in another world when I put on a pair of headphones. My AC, room mates, and neighbors make enough noise. I am not experienced enough to know if by playing at reasonable volumes I may drown them all out, but at quiet moments in games, wouldn't a disruption be unavoidable?


 
  yup you are in the same boat as me. I love my DT990s and I did love the Q701 but they are completely unusable in my environment and tiny apartment. At least you have the option of trying the K550 and A900X I have to play Russian roulette with headphones and eat high shipping costs if I don't like them. I am kinda jealous that is all I am saying. This is why like you I ask way to many questions at times.


----------



## Mehdi

I just got the Ultrasone PRO 550s in the mail... and they're very high quality. The biggest drawback is the unfortunate super short length of the packaged cord. It does come with a longer one, but with a 6mm jack and no adapter. A bit annoying, but it can be fixed via a quick order online 
   
  I'll have to spend sometime with these. They sound better in some cases, as I feel the mids are better than even the Q701s ( so far ) and of course its got more bass. However, I'm leaning towards some of that bass being too 'artifical'. More as I test...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Aren't they two very different sounding headphones? You can't compare a very bass/treble oriented headphone to a very balanced headphone. It's not fair to either headphone. It's just based off pure preference of sound signature.


----------



## Mehdi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Aren't they two very different sounding headphones? You can't compare a very bass/treble oriented headphone to a very balanced headphone. It's not fair to either headphone.* It's just based off pure preference of sound signature.*


 
  Which is very much why I'm comparing them, in relation to how well they fit me as my one pair of headphones which I'll be owning for years.


----------



## crzycuyler

I have read many times that the K550s sound very similar to the Q701. If this is true, then they are a likely candidate. I am considering an open set, as well, despite my living conditions. How do the HD650s hold up when gaming? I need a set that can handle games, movies, and music.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I have read many times that the K550s sound very similar to the Q701. If this is true, then they are a likely candidate. I am considering an open set, as well, despite my living conditions. How do the HD650s hold up when gaming? I need a set that can handle games, movies, and music.


 
   
  What's stopping you from picking up the D7000? MLE says consistently in his original post (and throughout the thread) that he loves them for all those purposes*.
   
_*Except competitive gaming, but that's not one of your requirements._


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> What's stopping you from picking up the D7000? MLE says consistently in his original post (and throughout the thread) that he loves them for all those purposes*.
> 
> _*Except competitive gaming, but that's not one of your requirements._


 
   
  I'm not sure if I understand what "competitive" and "fun" mean. When speaking of competitive gaming I understand it is important to have directional queues, but wouldn't this be just as important for the "fun" aspect. I would want to have the best sense of position within a world to make the world more real. 
   
  Also, if I purchase the D7000, I cannot return them. I am curious to how comfortable they are and how well they seal, as I hear they don't seal fully. I think I am over imagining how this may negatively affect the listening experience.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fun gaming cans tend to have too much bass that detracts from analyzing important sounds in competitive gaming. However, the D7000's bass is pretty separated from detail, so it's not an issue. It's damn good though, so even if it doesn't mask detail, you'll tend to absorb yourself in the bass, making you miss the micro details.

The D7000 is definitely the best of both worlds to me, assuming you can plunk down that cash.

They are not good with keeping outside noise in, but don't leak out much.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They are not good with keeping outside noise in *out*, but don't leak out much.


 
   
  FTFY, haha.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Fun gaming cans tend to have too much bass that detracts from analyzing important sounds in competitive gaming. However, the D7000's bass is pretty separated from detail, so it's not an issue. It's damn good though, so even if it doesn't mask detail, you'll tend to absorb yourself in the bass, making you miss the micro details.
> The D7000 is definitely the best of both worlds to me, assuming you can plunk down that cash.
> They are not good with keeping outside noise in, but don't leak out much.


 
   
  The reason I am interested in the D7000 is that it is said to have great bass depth and quantity that does not harm the other frequencies. I need to try to meet one need at a time. If I am looking for a gaming set, my priority is full immersion and my example game is Skyrim. I want to find the best headphone to take me there and experience the extraordinary environment and its inhabitants. I feel like directional queues are just as vital in this experience as in competitive gaming. I just want headphones that disappear and leave you in another world, open or closed headphones (though I may have a challenging environment for an open set). I realize I don't ask the most reasonable questions, but I have appreciated the willingness to respond that has been demonstrated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would find it incredibly odd if the D7000 didn't meet and exceed your requirements. Seriously. Unless your environment is very noisy...


----------



## NamelessPFG

So much D7000 hype...guess they earned that $1,000 price tag. I'd sure like to try a headphone where the bass DOESN'T compromise everything else, especially the mids. (V-shaped FRs everywhere...) Too bad I don't live close enough to anyone that has one up for audition.
   
  By the way, have you guys heard about Dolby Atmos yet? It's meant for movies, not for gaming, but I do find it amusing how the channel-agnostic approach of Atmos mixing is something PC games were doing for over a decade with DirectSound3D (and, later, OpenAL). Talk about being way ahead of the curve...
   
  An Atmos track can be downmixed to 7.1 and 5.1 with ease since it's stored as 3DPA and not a hard channel mix, which made me think...what if Dolby Headphone's HRTF was subjected to the raw 3D positional audio data Atmos offered, instead of downmixed 5.1/7.1 audio? It could match or maybe even surpass CMSS-3D Headphone (with DS3D/OAL 3DPA data) if they just did that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All I know is that I was playing Catherine tonight with the KSC35 and Mixamp, and I SWEAR, the audio cues during cutscenes were as close to binaural as I've ever heard the Mixamp. It was very impressive. That game just has really good cutscene audio.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I would find it incredibly odd if the D7000 didn't meet and exceed your requirements. Seriously. Unless your environment is very noisy...


 
   
  I'm keeping it in mind. Are there any lower priced options that may come close to the D7000 in terms of what I'm looking for? and how is the D7000 with movies?


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All I know is that I was playing Catherine tonight with the KSC35 and Mixamp, and I SWEAR, the audio cues during cutscenes were as close to binaural as I've ever heard the Mixamp. It was very impressive. That game just has really good cutscene audio.


 

 Omg Catherine <3. Awesome game,i see You have a good taste. This game almost made me an alcoholic due to Cuba Libre


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Velsu, while I'm into the game's story, and non-dream sequences... I don't really like puzzle games, and this game's puzzles were enough to make me ragequit. I give up on it. Probably just gonna watch it on youtube.

Cuyler: nothing I've used comes close to the D7000. You may wanna look into the D5000. The D7000 is awesome for movies.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> *sighs* Didn't think it would get that long and protracted.
> 
> Mad Lust Envy is right on the money. Dolby Pro Logic (II) is a means of encoding/matrixing extra surround channels into two analog channels. It's not as ideal as Dolby Digital due to crosstalk (which happens to any signal that can't be kept discrete from another, especially analog ones), but there are decoders that can extract them from PLII-processed sources.
> 
> Emphasis on that last bit: Pro Logic II is NOT plain stereo. It'll sound like stereo if you don't have a decoder that supports it, but the cues are there in the signal. I know due to testing some of my GCN/Wii games (which generally use PLII as a rule) with my SU-DH1.


 
  I just like the sound card idea better then a receiver, the Dolby Pro Logic IIz came out in 2009 (designed in 2008?).
  and as I believe sound card process Dolby using software/main cpu.
  The software can have recent fixes, updates, improvements over the hardware Dolby Pro Logic IIz.


----------



## crzycuyler

How is the HD650 as an open set for immersive gaming, movies, and music?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard it, but from what I've heard, the soundstage is not great for gaming, and the HD650 doesn't have good synergy with Dolby Headphone. FWIR. I wouldn't know.


----------



## Eric_C

Have tried the 600 on Dolby Headphone (MixAmp, Xbox, Mass Effect 3). Not impressed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> Have tried the 600 on Dolby Headphone (MixAmp, Xbox, Mass Effect 3). Not impressed.




Safe to assume the same for the HD650, which falls in line with the impressions I was given ages ago.


----------



## crzycuyler

My best bet will be to build a computer with a nice soundcard, then buy some headphones that can be returned and try them out. I just need to find out what my candidates are.


----------



## Drastion

crzycuyler 

 If your getting such a good discount. I am sure if you didn't like them and couldn't return them. You would be able to get your money back on the for sale section. Heck if its that great a deal I would be interested since I missed out on all the $555 sales for the d7000.


----------



## Evshrug

crzycuyler said:


> My best bet will be to build a computer with a nice soundcard, then buy some headphones that can be returned and try them out. I just need to find out what my candidates are.




Lol candidates, well I'll just refer you to what I said earlier: buy like 3 or 4 headphones at about $120 each, study their sounds for like a week so you can learn to detect the differences between them, and pick which sound signature YOU LIKE BEST! Then, you just gotta decide if you'll even notice improvement from spending more money, but if you want an upgrade at least you'll know what direction to take.

Just skip Skullcandy and Beats


----------



## Dirksqjaw

Just for the record, tried the Mad Dog moddefied Fostex T50rp's through the mixamp for very unspectacular results. Directional cues were very confusing and unpronounced. NOT competitive gaming can, although if proprerly amped, will likely be quite nice for more cinematic games. Will confirm once my amp comes in.
   
  Back to my SR-850's... my poor AD700's are starting to gather dust.
   
  -Dirk


----------



## crzycuyler

After more research, I am considering the DT990 premium (if I am to purchase open cans). Do you still feel as though they are an excellent pair of immersive gaming cans that aren't too shabby competitively?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Two questions. 
   
  What is the best audio settings for PS3 using the mixamp pro.  Dolby Digital 5.1 Ch or DTS 5.1 Ch.? Also what is AAC and what freq should I run these Q701 at?
   
  Linear PCM 2 Ch.: 44.1kHz, 88.2 kHz, 176.4 kHz? I'm using the TOS cable btw.


----------



## Velsu

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> After more research, I am considering the DT990 premium (if I am to purchase open cans). Do you still feel as though they are an excellent pair of immersive gaming cans that aren't too shabby competitively?


 
   
  If You allow me to add my two cents,i just recently Bought DT 990 Premium after hearing Mad Lust Envy's suggestion and i must say they are awesome both for fun/competitive gaming and music.
   
  Big credit to him for great help with picking headphones,imho someone should pay him salary for all this help he is giving on forums


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ninjasushi, Mixamps only take in Dolby Digital, Pro Logic II, or stereo. DTS will not work.

Set your PS3 to DD 5.1. The rest is gonna be if you turn on the multi audio out option, in which case it will only do 2 channel linear pcm (stereo) for every other audio connected to the PS3 (I.e. hdmi).

Velsu, I'm glad you like the DT990s. I was contemplating going back to those when I have funds again, but interested in the HE400/Pro 900 as my secondary.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ninjasushi, Mixamps only take in Dolby Digital, Pro Logic II, or stereo. DTS will not work.
> Set your PS3 to DD 5.1. The rest is gonna be if you turn on the multi audio out option, in which case it will only do 2 channel linear pcm (stereo) for every other audio connected to the PS3 (I.e. hdmi).
> Velsu, I'm glad you like the DT990s. I was contemplating going back to those when I have funds again, but interested in the HE400/Pro 900 as my secondary.


 
  Pfft. Get the STAX SR-009 and a woo receiver. lol jk jk.
   
  So does it matter what Freq I set the PS3 to? I mean I'm sure it does ofc, but can I set it all the way to 176.4 kHz like it allows? This will not damage my Q701 will it? (I wouldn't think it will.) BTW Fallout 3 sounds amazing with this setup.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Pfft. Get the STAX SR-009 and a woo receiver. lol jk jk.
> 
> So does it matter what Freq I set the PS3 to? I mean I'm sure it does ofc, but can I set it all the way to 176.4 kHz like it allows? This will not damage my Q701 will it? (I wouldn't think it will.) BTW Fallout 3 sounds amazing with this setup.


 
   
  I am craving some Fallout 3 immersion... such a fascinating game.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I am craving some Fallout 3 immersion... such a fascinating game.


 
  Mmhmm..


----------



## Evshrug

crzycuyler said:


> After more research, I am considering the DT990 Premium (if I am to purchase open cans). Do you still feel as though they are an excellent pair of immersive gaming cans that aren't too shabby competitively?




Uh. Here's what you're looking for, all the relevant info that basically answers all the questions you've asked crzycuyler:



mad lust envy said:


> Let me make this clear as day. This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH Dolby Headphone virtual surround (google it). NOT stereo, so those looking at this guide as a headphone guide for stereo gaming will be wasting their time looking here. I ONLY play with Dolby Headphone virtual surround, so I CAN'T and WON'T make suggestions to those who wanna play in plain stereo. That is all.
> 
> *For PC Gaming Audio advice, I highly recommend you guys read The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming, which is written by NamelessPFG, and specializes in the PC related side of gaming audio, which I am 100% not knowledgeable of. I'd consider it a great extension to my own guide for those who aren't console gamers.*
> ----------
> ...




Seriously though, you've been suggested the cream of the crop in gaming headphones, so man up and make a decision already.

O_o


----------



## Evshrug

velsu said:


> If You allow me to add my two cents,i just recently Bought DT 990 Premium after hearing Mad Lust Envy's suggestion and i must say they are awesome both for fun/competitive gaming and music.
> 
> Big credit to him for great help with picking headphones,imho someone should pay him salary for all this help he is giving on forums




I agree! Though I kinda did pay him by buying one of his used headphones. There was someone else listing a black pair of Q701s that were significantly cheaper than what MLE was asking, but I'd rather help MLE out for helping me, you know? It's kinda like online shopping vs visiting a local store; Sure I coulda saved a couple bucks buying from a stranger, but that would be shortchanging the one who helped me decide that the product was what I wanted in the first place! I wish him all the luck, and not just because I have faith that he shares his good fortune back with the community.

By the way, how would I connect the mini clip-on mic (3.5mm plug) to the Xbox? If I don't care for hearing my voice echo through the speakers when I chat, can I just use a 3.5 to 2.5 adapter to plug it into the controller and switch the Xbox chat preference to play through speakers only?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





velsu said:


> If You allow me to add my two cents,i just recently Bought DT 990 Premium after hearing Mad Lust Envy's suggestion and i must say they are awesome both for fun/competitive gaming and music.
> 
> Big credit to him for great help with picking headphones,imho someone should pay him salary for all this help he is giving on forums


 
  Sounds like a multi to me.. MLE has a multi maybe? lol jk


----------



## crzycuyler

I asked "still" because he made the guide a little while back, but he probably edits it as he needs to. I ask questions. Too many? Probably, but hey, I really can't help it. I'll back off soon. Yes his guide is informative, but its not pages upon pages per headphone (that would be ridiculous and is not expected). I'm used to having less than common opinions and desires, so I have got to test to see if we are really on the same page about what to expect. I appreciate your advice Evshrug. I do, and I will probably be testing a bunch of cans, but in my free time, when this is on my mind, I'd like to jump on a forum and talk to people with similar interests. MLE is the bomb. All people willing to share their experiences to help out others are very much appreciated.
   
  I've decided the best scenario that depicts the experience I am desiring is of that demonstrated by sitting in a bar in Fallout 3 (Moriarty's Saloon if you know it) and being able to hear the radio with its old time tunes and static interference (ever so often smacked by Gob when experience more than normal static) with customers and workers alike walking around and participating in drab conversation. I desire to know the location of the radio and people within the room and to hear it as though I were there in those dark times and not as though I am experiencing this situation through a pair of headphones. This may sound like an obvious desire, but it excites me to paint this picture. I want to hear the depth of the Sheriffs voice and feel the impact of grenades and mini-nukes in VATS as raider and mutants scream for their lives in slow motion. I want to roam the wastleland with the Pip Boy's radio dialed into GNR and Three Dog's crazy support to "fighting the good fight". I play other games, but if a headphone fits this bill, it will serve just fine in all likely scenarios I am to experience.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't tested Fallout 3. Keep in mind some games do surround sound better than others. Fallout 3 may be bad at positional cues, so make sure to test as many games as you're able.


----------



## Evshrug

Crzycuyler,
True, what good is a forum if there is no discussion. I forgot that Gob would smack the radio, and for some reason the mini-nukes never worked well for me in VATS, but overall I get exactly what you mean. When I was a kid, I used to play Myst before I even realized it was a puzzle game, and I would just explore to find new views for as long as I was allowed to play.

I'm not trying to be mean, I think I had just reached a point where I felt your questions were anything but unusual - what is the perfect headphone you would recommend - and that you weren't counting/considering the advice already given. That probably is really just you trying to make SURE you'll be getting what you want... Again, a process I am very familiar with. 

Now, I'm going to assume you've been thinking about this for a while, probably since before Fallout 3 was released. So, take my advice to make a decision based on this perspective: If you have the means, and you know you'll enjoy an elevated experience, then you're only denying yourself the pleasure by waiting.

If you have best buy discounts, and don't already own an Astro Mixamp or other device with Dolby Headphone, then you may want to buy one of the Tritton AX720 since it comes with a decent dolby headphone surround sound decoder (so it's like you get a closed headset for free), and at least an open headphone to compare. I don't think Astro products (i.e. the Mixamp) are sold at best buy, so the AX720, the turtle beach DSS, and maybe a Receiver or two with Dolby Headphone decoding built in would be your only choices. I don't think you can go wrong starting with the AX720, a Creative Aurvana Live!, and a Sennheiser HD555 or HD558. You should feel very immersed with those options, but you'll see if you try them if you need to go beyond.

I have played Fallout 3 till I finished almost every side quest and Easter egg, though I can't speak specifically to it's surround mix quality. I was using stereo back then. Even so, fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim do put a lot of emphasis on sound quality, and after hearing people describe how they can hear the direction and distance of an NPC carrying a torch in Oblivion, I think the audio will impress when hooked up to good equipment. Maybe you can contribute back to this thread with your impressions


----------



## crzycuyler

Deleted


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 and MMX300 are two very well received headsets. For the sake of immersion though, I can't guarantee you'll be pleased with either though.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Crzycuyler,
> True, what good is a forum if there is no discussion. I forgot that Gob would smack the radio, and for some reason the mini-nukes never worked well for me in VATS, but overall I get exactly what you mean. When I was a kid, I used to play Myst before I even realized it was a puzzle game, and I would just explore to find new views for as long as I was allowed to play.
> I'm not trying to be mean, I think I had just reached a point where I felt your questions were anything but unusual - what is the perfect headphone you would recommend - and that you weren't counting/considering the advice already given. That probably is really just you trying to make SURE you'll be getting what you want... Again, a process I am very familiar with.
> Now, I'm going to assume you've been thinking about this for a while, probably since before Fallout 3 was released. So, take my advice to make a decision based on this perspective: If you have the means, and you know you'll enjoy an elevated experience, then you're only denying yourself the pleasure by waiting.
> ...


 
  My reason for delay is that I will be building a gaming computer in the Fall/Winter. I will very likely grab a soundcard that has DH. I have heard from almost everyone to stay away from gaming headsets so I am curious as to what your thoughts are about them? I have experience with speakers, so I am not new to the audio world. I just never got into headphones until recently. I would like to get some cans that are great for movies and music as well as gaming. The HD558 gets good reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never mind*

In any case, I don't think any of the Sennheisers have enough life in them to be considered great for all forms of gaming. They're great at being well balanced, detailed, and general purpose cans, but won't ever wow in anything other than soundstage and positioning.

Think of them as a jack of most trades, though not a master of anything.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD558 isn't a headset. o_O


 
  I'm not saying it is. I am just saying from what he wrote, that recommendation may make sense to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I edited that. I misunderstood at first. I added quite a bit to that last post.


----------



## crzycuyler

I had the thread open in multiple tabs and had some out of order replies. I get what you are saying about the Sennheisers.


----------



## Evshrug

crzycuyler said:


> My reason for delay is that I will be building a gaming computer in the Fall/Winter. I will very likely grab a soundcard that has DH. I have heard from almost everyone to stay away from gaming headsets so I am curious as to what your thoughts are about them? I have experience with speakers, so I am not new to the audio world. I just never got into headphones until recently. I would like to get some cans that are great for movies and music as well as gaming. The HD558 gets good reviews.




Re: headsets,
Well overall Mad Lust Envy has a greater breadth of experience than me, but yeah, generally gamer headsets plateau at a pretty average sound quality and are hard to justify at their added cost for convenience (particularly ones for consoles, I imagine going over $100 is a hard sell for people buying a $300 gaming machine). Brand and perceived quality is key for headset makers, I think looks are another item leveraged. Of course, there ARE some exceptions in a growing niché market, especially for PC Gamers. I think TheNamelessOne has a good guide here on Headfi for pc gaming headphones, there's also a decent round up of pc gaming headsets on TomsHardware.com. MLE gave a pretty strong praise for the PC360 from Sennheiser (they're like HD598 with a boom mic, right?) and I've read good things about the Beyerdynamic MMX300, but I have 0 personal head-time with those.

Re: Suggestions,
I did suggest you try the tritton AX720 despite them being gamer headsets and for consoles, but that was mostly so you get the DH processor and a set of closed headphones to think of as a "baseline" for headphone sound. Then, I recommended the HD558, despite not having personal head-time, just because of the wealth of positive reviews as an open can and the value proposition if you look up how to mod them to sound like the more expensive HD598. I also think the Creative Aurvana Live! (CAL!) is a closed headset of great value, and even cheaper than the rest. I think, if you had all three, you would learn what headphone sound can be all about... The rest is about eeking out just a little better performance in a few areas. You'll already be experiencing sound much more detailed and attention-grabbing than speakers costing twice as much. Keep your fav and use it with (I assume) the device you are already playing Fallout 3 on, return or sell the rest. You may even feel content with your choice well after you build your gaming rig, and if you get an upgrade itch you'll have been introduced to what you can expect from the different manufacturers or what new features are worth getting excited about. 

With that said, I thoroughly have been enjoying my AD700s for over three years. I think my girlfriend gets jealous sometimes, LOL!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is like an HD595 with a boom mic, not the HD598. The HD598 is superior in clarity and detail. Also, the HD558 modded doesn't sound exactly like the Hd598. It sounds better than the stock 558, but not as good as the HD598. This isn't like the old 555 into the 595 mod. The 558 and 598 have a different internal design, which will never make the 558 sound like the 598. This is what I've read who have tried a modded 558 AND 598.


----------



## Evshrug

Actually, if you felt like skipping the AX720, the Turtle Beach DSS (the original, not the DSS2) is sold stand-alone, and you can hook it up to your PC's S/PIDF jack for digital to analogue conversion (like an external sound card) when not using it with your console. I don't know how it compares in sound quality to the Mixamp... just that it doesn't offer a live chat:game volume mix control. Chat volume just scales up when game volume gets loud, if I'm reading Turtle Beach's literature correctly.

Hmm, I may even pick up a used one myself to use for DH when I don't want to/can't use my Receiver...

​


mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 is like an HD595 with a boom mic, not the HD598. The HD598 is superior in clarity and detail. Also, the HD558 modded doesn't sound exactly like the Hd598. It sounds better than the stock 558, but not as good as the HD598. This isn't like the old 555 into the 595 mod. The 558 and 598 have a different internal design, which will never make the 558 sound like the 598. This is what I've read who have tried a modded 558 AND 598.




I read a few people who said they did manage almost similar performance, in this thread I think even, but who knows if they actually compared the two models side by side? In any rate, I DID say I don't have personal experience with either, not my sound preference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Actually, if you felt like skipping the AX720, the Turtle Beach DSS (the original, not the DSS2) is sold stand-alone, and you can hook it up to your PC's S/PIDF jack for digital to analogue conversion (like an external sound card) when not using it with your console. I don't know how it compares in sound quality to the Mixamp... just that it doesn't offer a live chat:game volume mix control. Chat volume just scales up when game volume gets loud, if I'm reading Turtle Beach's literature correctly.
> Hmm, I may even pick up a used one myself to use for DH when I don't want to/can't use my Receiver...




The DSS is more hissy than the AX720 and the Mixamp, which can be a dealbreaker to some. With very sensitive headphones, it's pretty audible during quite scenes in games.

In order of least hissy, to most:

Mixamp Pro/Wired
Mixamp 5.8
AX720
DSS

I haven't heard the DSS2, but that doesn't use Dolby Headphone. I'd like to try and compare it to the Mixamp some day.

I vaguely remember that the AX720 is ALWAYS hissy, even when volume is turned all the way down. The Mixamp 5.8 is hissy once you reach really loud decibel levels, and a non-issue with moderate volume levels to slightly loud. the Mixamp Pro is pretty silent compared to the rest, and very minute hiss can be heard when the volume is maxed out. So basically, it's pretty damn quiet for the what it is.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Actually, if you felt like skipping the AX720, the Turtle Beach DSS (the original, not the DSS2) is sold stand-alone, and you can hook it up to your PC's S/PIDF jack for digital to analogue conversion (like an external sound card) when not using it with your console. I don't know how it compares in sound quality to the Mixamp... just that it doesn't offer a live chat:game volume mix control. Chat volume just scales up when game volume gets loud, if I'm reading Turtle Beach's literature correctly.
> Hmm, I may even pick up a used one myself to use for DH when I don't want to/can't use my Receiver...
> I read a few people who said they did manage almost similar performance, in this thread I think even, but who knows if they actually compared the two models side by side? In any rate, I DID say I don't have personal experience with either, not my sound preference.


 
   
  Just bear in mind that the sound card in the PC will determine whether you're feeding a 5.1 signal to the DSS. If the sound card wasn't built to output/process that, you won't end up with virtual surround on the headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The DSS is more hissy than the AX720 and the Mixamp, which can be a dealbreaker to some. With very sensitive headphones, it's pretty audible during quite scenes in games.
> In order of least hissy, to most:
> Mixamp Pro/Wired
> Mixamp 5.8
> ...




Makes sense, the DSS being cheaper and all. But still, at $45 used on Amazon, it may be worth it for entry-level surround sound. Most amazon reviews (maybe not the most reliable) point out that the DSS2 dropped to a Turtle Beach surround codec that only has 4 channels/directions. I think if I was buying new, I would either go cheap and get a used DSS or go big and get the Mixamp (since I've already got the headphone itself covered). I don't think Astro sells through Best Buy, right?

Edit: BB has the Astro Mixamp BATTERIES (and NuForce Icon DAC/amp), but not the Mixamp itself. So if someone was determined to buy through them, it would be the other two processors or a receiver. Not sure which receivers offer Dolby Headphone, I know my Yamaha has some in-house codec that only makes a small difference. I think. I dunno, my poor hifi stuff has been packed in a box in the basement for 6 months! 



eric_c said:


> Just bear in mind that the sound card in the PC will determine whether you're feeding a 5.1 signal to the DSS. If the sound card wasn't built to output/process that, you won't end up with virtual surround on the headphones.



True, mine does so the thought hadn't occurred to me. Before I moved out of my apartment, I had my Xbox and hackinto--- er, PC hooked up to my receiver and then to my TV.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I agree! Though I kinda did pay him by buying one of his used headphones. There was someone else listing a black pair of Q701s that were significantly cheaper than what MLE was asking, but I'd rather help MLE out for helping me, you know? It's kinda like online shopping vs visiting a local store; Sure I coulda saved a couple bucks buying from a stranger, but that would be shortchanging the one who helped me decide that the product was what I wanted in the first place! I wish him all the luck, and not just because I have faith that he shares his good fortune back with the community.
> By the way, how would I connect the mini clip-on mic (3.5mm plug) to the Xbox? If I don't care for hearing my voice echo through the speakers when I chat, can I just use a 3.5 to 2.5 adapter to plug it into the controller and switch the Xbox chat preference to play through speakers only?


 
   
  If you want to plug a mic directly into the controller (which is what I actually do) then you'll need  a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter and a stereo to mono adapter (if you're using a mic with 3 poles on the plug). If you use it without an a stereo to mono adapter then you voice with be very faint to everyone else. You can test this by recording a voice message over xblive and playing it back to hear how you sound.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I asked "still" because he made the guide a little while back, but he probably edits it as he needs to. I ask questions. Too many? Probably, but hey, I really can't help it. I'll back off soon. Yes his guide is informative, but its not pages upon pages per headphone (that would be ridiculous and is not expected). I'm used to having less than common opinions and desires, so I have got to test to see if we are really on the same page about what to expect. I appreciate your advice Evshrug. I do, and I will probably be testing a bunch of cans, but in my free time, when this is on my mind, I'd like to jump on a forum and talk to people with similar interests. MLE is the bomb. All people willing to share their experiences to help out others are very much appreciated.
> 
> I've decided the best scenario that depicts the experience I am desiring is of that demonstrated by sitting in a bar in Fallout 3 (Moriarty's Saloon if you know it) and being able to hear the radio with its old time tunes and static interference (ever so often smacked by Gob when experience more than normal static) with customers and workers alike walking around and participating in drab conversation. I desire to know the location of the radio and people within the room and to hear it as though I were there in those dark times and not as though I am experiencing this situation through a pair of headphones. This may sound like an obvious desire, but it excites me to paint this picture. I want to hear the depth of the Sheriffs voice and feel the impact of grenades and mini-nukes in VATS as raider and mutants scream for their lives in slow motion. I want to roam the wastleland with the Pip Boy's radio dialed into GNR and Three Dog's crazy support to "fighting the good fight". I play other games, but if a headphone fits this bill, it will serve just fine in all likely scenarios I am to experience.


 
  Over dramatic much?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I haven't tested Fallout 3. Keep in mind some games do surround sound better than others. Fallout 3 may be bad at positional cues, so make sure to test as many games as you're able.


 
  Fallout 3 let alone any Bethesda game dominates with eccentric visuals and wide ranges of sound, both with amazing quality. I've never seen a Bethesda game that wasn''t visually, audio, and interactively beautiful.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Crzycuyler,
> True, what good is a forum if there is no discussion. I forgot that Gob would smack the radio, and for some reason the mini-nukes never worked well for me in VATS, but overall I get exactly what you mean. When I was a kid, I used to play Myst before I even realized it was a puzzle game, and I would just explore to find new views for as long as I was allowed to play.
> I'm not trying to be mean, I think I had just reached a point where I felt your questions were anything but unusual - what is the perfect headphone you would recommend - and that you weren't counting/considering the advice already given. That probably is really just you trying to make SURE you'll be getting what you want... Again, a process I am very familiar with.
> Now, I'm going to assume you've been thinking about this for a while, probably since before Fallout 3 was released. So, take my advice to make a decision based on this perspective: If you have the means, and you know you'll enjoy an elevated experience, then you're only denying yourself the pleasure by waiting.
> ...


 
  Sadly... Astro Gaming started a trial run with 50 Bestbuy's nation wide. Yes this means you can buy their mix amps but it also means tons of kids are going to run out and get "MLG" A30s, 40s, and the new 50s for the same price as a decent pair of cans.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Over dramatic much?


 
  Which part? I just type what I'm thinking.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Which part? I just type what I'm thinking.


 
  lol all of it..


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> lol all of it..


 
  well i think you're just swell


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> well i think you're just swell


 
  I am. I also like your avatar. kekekekeke! jk jk.
   
  Who likes my new Anime chick? Also which anime is this chick from and who is she? I just googled pics of the Q701 and found this. lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those are actually K701s, and that's Mio Akiyama from 'K-on!'.

Lots of people on Head-fi have used that image as their avatar, lol.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Those are actually K701s, and that's Mio Akiyama from 'K-on!'.
> Lots of people on Head-fi have used that image as their avatar, lol.


 
  Well HELL yeah.. then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I uhh... caved...



Come Tuesday, I will be the new owner of...





(same headphone, btw)


I couldn't resist it any longer. Bought it through Amazon, so I didn't have to use my immediate funds, which is helpful. Also had $150 in gift card funds, so it literally cost me less than $200.

It was these or the HE400, and I realized... I want an 'alternative' to the D7000 for when they bother me, not necessarily an alternative to the D7000 sound. In the hot months/days, I hardly touch my D7000. If I touch them once a week, that's actually a lot. In comparison, I use my KSC35 almost every day. I'd love to use my D7000 all the time IF they weren't so hot and sticky. Velours are that important to me. I'd pay someone to mod some velour padding on TOP of the D7000 pads (like stitching velour directly on top, where the pads touch the skin.) I wasn't kidding when I said the D7000 was the last headphone I'd ever buy with non-velours. 

I didn't find the Pro 2900 uncomfortable in the least, and I expect the same here.

If they satisfy me more than I expect, I may even put my D7000 on sale, which should recuperate most of my cash back as the D7000 is a rare commodity now. Not that I think I'll be giving them up. Just a possibility. I will of course be comparing them to one another and putting the Pro 900s through some heavy gaming abuse. Let's hope the mid bass, while being strong, isn't the uncomfortable kind that I can't handle. I also don't expect them to compare to the D7000 SQ-wise, but perhaps they'll be good enough for me not to totally miss the D7000 sound.

Man, they look so much better with gray velours rather than black. O_O


----------



## AxelCloris

That's actually quite the good thing. I was looking for a folding headset with velour pads for when I travel. I've been eyeing the Ultrasone Pro series as they are said to have a nice soundstage for closed headphones. Looking forward to seeing how they sound for you.May pick up a pair on the used section sometime once my funds are restored from paying my car's alternator.
   
  And to be honest, I do have a bid right now on a pair of  SRH940s on ebay. I shouldn't be bidding but I am. I've heard they're very similar to the Q's in their presentation and sound, but closed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't expect too much out of the soundstage with Dolby Headphone. Even the open Pro 2900 sounded like a closed headphone. However, in stereo mode, the soundstage was large to the extreme left and right, not so much all around the head. The instrument separation was pretty significant though. Lots of separation. Took getting used to the way they produce sound. Not a huge fan of S-logic, but it wasn't a bother. Just... the Q701 spanked the Pro 2900 overall. The Pro 900 is a bassy can, so it automatically wins out for my purposes, assuming I can handle the mid bass.

IF the Pro 900 reproduces the QUALITY of bass that the Pro 2900 has but with more quantity... then I will be in love. Not sure it will though, since it's open vs closed. I do hear nothing but great things about the Pro 900 quality and quantity, so I'm hopeful. I'm expecting a closed version of the DT990 with better bass, and slightly less treble. I couldn't ask for more (other than wishing the Pro 2900 would've been like a more improved DT990, yet it came up as an inferior DT880 alternative music-wise, though better for gaming.)

I'll miss the Q701, but I honestly don't have a need for a well balanced headphone anymore, and they weren't getting the love they deserve. They were honestly too good for my V shaped tendencies. If I ever need a well balanced, natural sounding headphone, I won't hesitate to get them again. As it stands, the D7000 satisfies both my basshead and natural sounding tendencies. I don't expect the Pro 900 to come close to sounding as organic as the D7000.

What's funny is that I bet I will still use the KSC35 a lot more than either.


----------



## audiophizile

Hi. I hate to say but reading through 412 pages is hard haha I'm looking for a quality closed headphone as my Xbox is very close as well as my pc and can be noticeably distracting. I also use an astro mixamp on both. Currently own the senn pc350 but the right ear is buzzing and am looking for an upgrade that is good for competitive gaming(footsteps and positioning). I notice there aren't many closed cans on the list probably because of the close soundstage. Though you haven't tested the fa-003, from what I've read it sounds like it would good. Any other closed cans you or anyone would recommend for this? 
Edit: also I'd like to stay around the $150-200 but feel free to recommend anything not crazy expensive you think would be suitable. Thanks.
Another edit haha: bass isn't a huge priority to me. I do love having a solid full spectrum but for gaming tight, controlled bass even if it's lacking seems better to me. So fast, clear, tight, good ?upper mid? response for footsteps, and closed back are my main concerns.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I were in your shoes, I too would go for the FA-003/HM-5. It's as good as it's gonna get in that price range. I honestly haven't tested enough closed headphones, let alone at that price range. You might wanna try the DT770/32 ohm if you can stretch your budget, as the bass shouldn't be obtrusive like it's other variations, and the DT770s have really good positioning (really the best I've heard). Sadly, they've been discontinued, and finding a 32ohm DT770 can be hard nowadays but not impossible. I mention the 32ohm version, because I hear they're not as bassy as the others, which is a good thing in your case.

Some online stores are selling them for $250. Just look around.

I'd probably try the FA-003 or HM-5 though, as they are more readily available, and should be more enjoyable as a whole, FWIR Cheaper is also a good thing.


----------



## audiophizile

mad lust envy said:


> If I were in your shoes, I too would go for the FA-003/HM-5. It's as good as it's gonna get in that price range. I honestly haven't tested enough closed headphones, let alone at that price range. You might wanna try the DT770/32 ohm if you can stretch your budget, as the bass shouldn't be obtrusive like it's other variations, and the DT770s have really good positioning (really the best I've heard). Sadly, they've been discontinued, and finding a 32ohm DT770 can be hard nowadays but not impossible. I mention the 32ohm version, because I hear they're not as bassy as the others, which is a good thing in your case.
> Some online stores are selling them for $250. Just look around.
> I'd probably try the FA-003 or HM-5 though, as they are more readily available, and should be more enjoyable as a whole, FWIR Cheaper is also a good thing.




Thanks for the quick reply, awesome write ups and anime knowledge haha I think I'm going to try to find the fa-003 which seems difficult currently and test em out. Will keep you guys updated if you're interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you live in the states, go for the HM5. Should be the same exact thing, but cheaper and readily available in the states. The FA-003 is a bitch to order and wait for. (through Russia, pains, etc). That is, unless you're buying them used through here at Head-fi...

Too bad the HM5 doesn't come with the extra velour pads like the FA-003. I'd have probably bought them by now had they came with those.

Speaking of anime... all the new ones are starting to come out this week. I better get on that...


----------



## AxelCloris

HM5, FA-003, and these Jaycars are the same thing minus branding. I've seen these around $50 before.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AA2065


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a great price... too bad they're equipped with pleather, and are out of the country.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yeah. They were below $50 (slightly) giving cheaper shipping, then they got mentioned on here and went to $50 with the higher shipping bracket. Now they're $80 and out of stock. So the typical flavor of the month ruining pricing  But yeah, I agree with you MLE. If these had the velour pads that the FA-003 came with I'd have purchased them a long time ago.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure they are out of stock. The website is a bit confusing with their icons. Looks like they are limited... o_O

The currency is Aussie money. Not sure how that $80 is in American dollars. edit: Hmm, around the same.

Not sure I wanna deal with shipping from Australia.


----------



## audiophizile

Guess I didn't realize the hm5 was the same thanks. If you wouldn't mind let me know if there are any good animes in a pm or something. I'm into all kinds but have haven't kept up on it much in a year or so except the big name titles. The lack of good stuff (anime and otherwise)on Netflix and hulu is hurting. Glad I just got game of thrones to watch!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I basically just sift through Animetake, and whatever they put up recently. XD



Yeah, try the HM5. Let us know how it goes for you.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure they are out of stock. The website is a bit confusing with their icons. Looks like they are limited... o_O
> The currency is Aussie money. Not sure how that $80 is in American dollars. edit: Hmm, around the same.
> Not sure I wanna deal with shipping from Australia.


 
  At the $50 mark, shipping was $20. When it was just under $50, shipping was $7.50.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't mean the price of shipping, just waiting for something shipped from Australia. I heard Australia is a bit finicky with what goes in/out of the country.


----------



## audiophizile

My hm5 and zalman mic should be here Tuesday thanks to amazon. There a different mic I should've gone with? Also while I'm here (and lazy) good break in recommendations for headphones? I just tended to use mine a lot, will that be sufficient?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ugh... Zalman... CANCEL!!! Get the Antlion Modmic, if you can afford it. The Zalman is absolute garbage. I bought it when it was expensive, and I had to scream just for it to pick up my voice.

Seems the modmics aren't for sale at the moment. (They are upgrading the site)

If you're patient, Dealextreme sells a very good clip-on like the Zalman, that actually works, and is cheaper. It takes like a month for it to get to you though.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080

Works like a charm. I know for sure the DX mic is wonderful. Owned two, and both were as good as my PC360's built in mic, IMHO.


----------



## audiophizile

mad lust envy said:


> Ugh... Zalman... CANCEL!!! Get the Antlion Modmic, if you can afford it. The Zalman is absolute garbage. I bought it when it was expensive, and I had to scream just for it to pick up my voice.
> Seems the modmics aren't for sale at the moment. (They are upgrading the site)
> If you're patient, Dealextreme sells a very good clip-on like the Zalman, that actually works, and is cheaper. It takes like a month for it to get to you though.
> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
> Works like a charm.




In the budget and looks awesome! Currently unavailable on amazon and their web page though  I'll deal with the zalman until they get it back and do a swap since amazon has a great return policy. Really appreciate the recommendations. Thanks again.

Haha yeah I'm impatient that's why I have amazon prime that and a mic is pretty important


----------



## audiophizile

Wow I love the mic on my 350's same mic I'm sure you know. Didn't think any clip on could be that good for that cheap. So is it better then the antlion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not better, maybe just different. I hear the antlion is very sensitive. I haven't heard it myself.

The PC360 mic doesn't sound the same as the DX clip on. The DX clip on picks up voices just as well, but has a different tonal balance. Brighter, I guess. Your voice sounds more natural with the PC360's mic. To me, I don't care about that. As long as I'm understood clearly, I could care less about whether my voice is realistic or not.


----------



## Timobkg

First, thanks for putting together this guide!  I'm hoping you can give me some guidance.
   
  I'm a recreational gamer, so my needs are somewhat different. My current setup is a PC with an X-Fi sound card (CMMS-3D, equivalent to Dolby Headphone) and replacing a Plantronics Audio90, which had super comfortable foam pads but terrible sound. I play all types of games (RPG, FPS, RTS, Action), and am looking for something fun, comfortable, with some sound isolation (I'm in the family office, so fully-open is out, as are my Logitech Z-5300e 5.1 speakers).  I'd like something with good spacial positioning, so I can localize sounds, but I don't play competitively, so I prioritize clear dialog and a more fun (bassy?) sound over being able to pinpoint footsteps through explosions.  I'm looking for either a headset or headphones and a mic, my use would be 90% gaming, and would prefer non-pleather pads.
   
  What would be some of the best options for me in the $30-$200 range for fun, comfortable, semi-open/closed headphones/headsets used exclusively for gaming?  Thanks.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





timobkg said:


> First, thanks for putting together this guide!  I'm hoping you can give me some guidance.
> 
> I'm a recreational gamer, so my needs are somewhat different. My current setup is a PC with an X-Fi sound card (CMMS-3D, equivalent to Dolby Headphone) and replacing a Plantronics Audio90, which had super comfortable foam pads but terrible sound. I play all types of games (RPG, FPS, RTS, Action), and am looking for something fun, comfortable, with some sound isolation (I'm in the family office, so fully-open is out, as are my Logitech Z-5300e 5.1 speakers).  I'd like something with good spacial positioning, so I can localize sounds, but I don't play competitively, so I prioritize clear dialog and a more fun (bassy?) sound over being able to pinpoint footsteps through explosions.  I'm looking for either a headset or headphones and a mic, and would prefer non-pleather pads.
> 
> What would be some of the best options for me in the $30-$200 range for fun, comfortable, semi-open/closed headphones/headsets?  Thanks.


 
  Dt770 32ohm to 250ohm, Ultrasone HFI-750. Might be worth researching or getting opinions on.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





timobkg said:


> First, thanks for putting together this guide!  I'm hoping you can give me some guidance.
> 
> I'm a recreational gamer, so my needs are somewhat different. My current setup is a PC with an X-Fi sound card (CMMS-3D, equivalent to Dolby Headphone) and replacing a Plantronics Audio90, which had super comfortable foam pads but terrible sound. I play all types of games (RPG, FPS, RTS, Action), and am looking for something fun, comfortable, with some sound isolation (I'm in the family office, so fully-open is out, as are my Logitech Z-5300e 5.1 speakers).  I'd like something with good spacial positioning, so I can localize sounds, but I don't play competitively, so I prioritize clear dialog and a more fun (bassy?) sound over being able to pinpoint footsteps through explosions.  I'm looking for either a headset or headphones and a mic, my use would be 90% gaming, and would prefer non-pleather pads.
> 
> What would be some of the best options for me in the $30-$200 range for fun, comfortable, semi-open/closed headphones/headsets used exclusively for gaming?  Thanks.


 
  Which model X-fi card is it?
   
  The Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250-Ohm headphones ($155-$180) and a decent headphone amplifier that you can plug into the X-Fi's headphone jack.


----------



## Timobkg

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Which model X-fi card is it?
> 
> The Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250-Ohm headphones ($155-$180) and a decent headphone amplifier that you can plug into the X-Fi's headphone jack.


 
  I have the X-Fi XtremeGamer and I currently have the mic plugged into the optical/multi-use port on the back with the headphones plugged into the case's front audio expansion jack. Unfortunately, if I plug the mic into the case's front audio jack, my voice is too quiet and garbled, so I need to use the optical/multi-use port on the back for the mic, and thus can't use a headphone amp (I assume the amp is needed to drive higher ohm headphones?).


----------



## Timobkg

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Dt770 32ohm to 250ohm, Ultrasone HFI-750. Might be worth researching or getting opinions on.


 
  I couldn't find the DT 770 32ohm, only the DT 770 Pro 80 and Pro 250 (out of which I believe I would want the 80, since I don't have a headphone amp?). Is the Ultrasone HFI-750 this headphone here? If so, it's a possibility, but at $250 (+$30 for a mic) I'd like to see if there's something comparable for less.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





timobkg said:


> I have the X-Fi XtremeGamer and I currently have the mic plugged into the optical/multi-use port on the back with the headphones plugged into the case's front audio expansion jack. Unfortunately, if I plug the mic into the case's front audio jack, my voice is too quiet and garbled, so I need to use the optical/multi-use port on the back for the mic, and thus can't use a headphone amp (I assume the amp is needed to drive higher ohm headphones?).


 
   
  On the back panel of the Xtreme Gamer
  The mic is plugged to the cards mic/optical (white) port.
  So you could plug the headphone amplifier into the green line-out/headphone output port.
   
  Also the Audio Technica ATH-A900s are not really bassy, but should work plugged into the Xtreme gamer without the need for an amplifier.


----------



## Timobkg

Yes, the mic is plugged into the optical port.  I currently have my speakers (Logitech Z-5300e 5.1) plugged into the sound card's three output ports. The back of the case is somewhat inaccessible, so unplugging the speakers to plug in the amp is right out. I'm guessing plugging the amp into the case's front headphone port would not work well? What's the benefit to the amp, vs just getting lower ohm headphones that don't need it?
   
  How do the DT 770 Pro 80 compare to the DT 770 Pro 250, or the ATH-A900?
   
  I've also seen the Sennheiser HD 558, PC 350, and PC 360 recommended. How do those compare to the above for gaming and comfort (I've heard some about Sennheisers being very clampy, but the A900s getting hot)? 
   
  Any other models I should be looking at? Is there something cheaper that's comparable, or do the cheaper headphones all sacrifice sound or comfort?


----------



## audiophizile

The pc360s are open so probably not great for your needs. The 350s aren't the most "fun" as they have very little bass(I've had them for a few years). I'm getting my hm5's on Monday/tomorrow and will let you know how they are for gaming. Dt770's do sound like a good choice as well for your needs. I'm thinking with the 80ohm you could get away without an amp but the 250 you definitely would need one. As I said I have pc350s which are 150ohm and occasionally wouldn't use my amp and it wasn't bad. An amp will give you more bass from the drivers getting more power and should sound cleaner all around though.


----------



## audiophizile

Going cheaper will almost always sacrifice something. If you're only going to use them for gaming and never music you could spend $100 on something and be satisfied but if you don't mind spending the extra cash on a good quality set it will make you much happier. If you read the ops review CAL! On the first page it seems like it would work well. Might be worth looking into for quite a bit cheaper


----------



## calpis

If you want more bass out of the pc350 you can mod them. It's a pretty simple mod that's been known since they came out but it''s also irreversible.


----------



## Timobkg

Excuse my newbness, but could you guys explain how open, semi-open, and closed headphones are in real life? If using open headphones, can everyone else in the room with me really hear what I'm hearing the same as if I was using speakers or something, thus defeating the point of me using headphones? If using closed headphones, would I still be able to chat with my wife sitting 4 feet behind me, or would it isolate so much that we have to use Vent even in the same room?
   
  Any advice to how the CAL! would compare to the Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B + AKG velour pads, since they come out to be about the same price? 
   
  I'd honestly only use the headphones for gaming, and maybe the occasional movie / anime. I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than I have to, but don't mind spending more for a better product that will make me happier in the end.  What would I gain stepping up from something like the CAL! to the DT 770 Pro 80?


----------



## Mehdi

After much time with the Ultrasone PRO 550s, while they're fun, they're not as nice as the Q701s. While they do have more of a bass impact, it feels... fake. This is more abundantly clear when I'm listening to music... including Dub Step and Trance... which you would think would sound better with the 550s, but to me, it makes it worse as it masks all the other sounds.
   
  I'm going to try the 990s Pros next


----------



## Hailin

This post is long overdue for me, but I have been stalling cause I don't want to get yelled at.  I have done so much reading my head is swirling.
   
  I see a lot of people saying that the 250ohm DT770 needs an amp. I run the DT990pro off my mixamp so I am wondering what the DT770 does so differently that it definitely needs this extra power?
   
  I am getting the E17/E09K combo on Monday/Tuesday. So then I will get to experience the DT990 with full power.
   
  The hunt for a closed headphone continues and I have a few questions.
   
  DT770pro 250ohm vs 600ohm with my amp does anyone have  an opinion on these with Dolby? I have read Zombie's thread that the 600ohm is more refined. Are the 600's worth the extra $100?
   
  T70 anyone tried these? I realize they lack bass impact (like the Q701) but can reach really low. I can get them open box for 399CAD right now.
   
  AKG550 has anyone attempted gaming with these headphones, yet? I LOVED the Q701 but they were useless for my situation and noise level in my tiny apartment. Summer is coming do they sweat? Can you lay down and relax with them on without breaking the seal?
   
  Pro900 I am not going to ask any questions I am just going to wait patiently for your opinion MLE.
   
  Are there any other headphones I should read about? My budget is about 500dollars CAD. Must pair with the E09K. Please don't suggest Denon's I would LOVE to get a pair but due to there isolation they are definitely a no go. Hoping the new generation either goes fully open or fully closed. I am one of the only people that loves the look of the 7100.
   
  My needs are 1. Isolation 2. Soundstage(positional immersion) 3. Clarity 4. Bass
   
  I play a lot of Dead Island and love hearing the Thugs and infected scream only to realize they are miles away due to the DT990 awesome soundstage depth. I will also be playing a TON of Borderlands2 when it arrives. So nothing competitive.
  I have also started listening to a ton of Vocal/Liquid Drum and Bass, and Chillstep. (Netsky for example)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First, ALL Beyerdynamic headphones (the popular ones) need an amp. The DT770 Pro 80 is the easiest to drive, but it STILL needs power. It sounds really harsh and thin, and very loose in the bass area without an amp.

Second, even the 32ohm Beyers need amps (harder to juice than the 80ohm, IMHO).

If you have the Mixamp, the 80ohm should be fine for gaming, if you want a LOOOOOT of bass. It can sound very muddy at times. The 32ohms felt as hard to drive as the 250ohm.

Third, the 600ohm DT770... well, the one I got wasn't refined at all. It had as much bass at the 80ohm, possibly even more so. I think I got a fluke 600ohm, so I honestly feel like deleting the listing of the 600ohm on the first page.


----------



## Hailin

See this is what worries me. Was the 600  ohm with your E9 setup? I am concerned the E9 doesn't have the power to run the 600s properly. So maybe I am better off with the (balanced) 250 ohm. If i go that route. Or maybe you did get a weird pair. /shrug


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 has enough power for 600ohm, but 600ohm cans can benefit from even more power. Also, the E9 isn't a good match for harsh headphones, which pretty much is all the popular Beyers. The E9 is better for headphones with a smoother treble. If you don't mind not taming any harsh treble, then the E9 is fine as a means to have power for cheap.

In any case, the 600ohm DT770 I got sounded bass bloated to hell off anything I plugged it into. Something was definitely off compared to what everyone else has said of the 600ohm DT770s.


----------



## Timobkg

So which fun, comfortable, recreational gaming headphones would you recommend if I'm not using an Amp?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





timobkg said:


> Excuse my newbness, but could you guys explain how open, semi-open, and closed headphones are in real life? If using open headphones, can everyone else in the room with me really hear what I'm hearing the same as if I was using speakers or something, thus defeating the point of me using headphones? If using closed headphones, would I still be able to chat with my wife sitting 4 feet behind me, or would it isolate so much that we have to use Vent even in the same room?
> 
> Any advice to how the CAL! would compare to the Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B + AKG velour pads, since they come out to be about the same price?
> 
> I'd honestly only use the headphones for gaming, and maybe the occasional movie / anime. I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than I have to, but don't mind spending more for a better product that will make me happier in the end.  What would I gain stepping up from something like the CAL! to the DT 770 Pro 80?


 
  I'm thinking it might better to replace your current sound card with the Creative Recon3D PCI-E ($80), it comes with a back panel with separate headphone jack from the three analog speaker output jacks.
  Or get the Asus Xonar DG ($25), the headphone amp. can be used with the cases front headphone jack.
   
  The Samosn SR850 (made by Superlux) is only $50 and it's $15 for velvet ears pads (eBay)
  AKG Velour ear pads that fit the SR850 are $46 in the USA.
   
  The CALs (Creative Aurvana Live) are good sounding headphones, but the cups are small, barely fit around my ears and the diaphragm seems to sit about 1mm from my ear.
  Not something I can wear for long periods of time, like 15 to 30 minutes.
  It's like the sound is too concentrated for my ears, but that could be because I have almost 48 year old ears.....Wow, I just realized it's only 14 years until I can start collecting Social Security.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like the Creative Aurvana Live. Dunno about anyone else, but the CALs are incredibly comfortable, even if they come with pleather pads. Seriously. It's not like they press on to your ears hard. Sure your ears aren't completely free, but the CALs are just resting on them, not forcing them down. Asides from it getting hot, I can wear them all day.


----------



## Timobkg

Man, headphone shopping is a lot harder than I would have thought.
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Samosn SR850 (made by Superlux) is only $50 and it's $15 for velvet ears pads (eBay)
> AKG Velour ear pads that fit the SR850 are $46 in the USA.
> 
> The CALs (Creative Aurvana Live) are good sounding headphones, but the cups are small, barely fit around my ears and the diaphragm seems to sit about 1mm from my ear.
> Not something I can wear for long periods of time, like 15 to 30 minutes.


 
  So it sounds like the comfort of the SR850 compared to the CALs varies person to person. Would I be correct in assuming that the CALs would have better sound / spacial positioning? Are there replacement non-pleather pads for the CALs?
   
  If I used the DT 770 Pro 80 without a headphone amp, would they sound worse than the CAL or SR850 / HD668B?
   
  In regard to open vs closed headphones, could someone clarify the following for me: If using open headphones, can everyone else in the room with me really hear what I'm hearing the same as if I was using speakers or something, thus defeating the point of me using headphones? If using closed headphones, would I still be able to chat with my wife sitting 4 feet behind me, or would it isolate so much that we have to use Vent even in the same room?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Open headphones can be heard, but nothing like a speaker. It's just background noise in a quiet room. 

Even with an open headphone, and listening to something at a moderate level, you won't really be able to talk to anyone.

Even the worst closed headphones in isolation (CAL, Denons), you will want to take off your headphones to talk to someone.

You guys are overthinking your purchases too much. Most of these headphones will make most of you happy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





timobkg said:


> Man, headphone shopping is a lot harder than I would have thought.
> So it sounds like the comfort of the SR850 compared to the CALs varies person to person. Would I be correct in assuming that the CALs would have better sound / spacial positioning? Are there replacement non-pleather pads for the CALs?
> 
> If I used the DT 770 Pro 80 without a headphone amp, would they sound worse than the CAL or SR850 / HD668B?
> ...


 
  Usually open headphone have advantages over closed headphones, I would assume with closed headphones, your getting unwanted sound bouncing around inside the cups.
  There many in the world that like their CALs more then me and if it works for them, great.
  Open and semi-open can be heard from people around you, does not mean it loud enough to will bother them.
  SR850s are semi-open, so you could say their openness is only, let say 20% compared to a full open headphone.
  With closed headphones, you should still be able to hear someone talking to you from 4 feet away, if they speak loud enough (shout), and your headphone volume is really low, if they are facing away and whispering, that's another story.
  With semi-open headphones, it will be easier to hear them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One thing to add, I liked the CAL about as much as the DT770 pro 80, and the CAL doesn't need an amp at all.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> One thing to add, I liked the CAL about as much as the DT770 pro 80, and the CAL doesn't need an amp at all.


 
  I though my CALs gave My DT770 Pro 80-Ohm some good competition.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Exactly. For those not wanting to worry about getting the most out of their headphones, the CAL is a very fair priced, and easy to drive headphone that does gaming, music, and comfort well. It's a perfect headphone to start with, and possibly end up with. I have tested many a headphone, as you all know, and the CAL is still among my very faves.

edit: seems I forgot to add it to the top lists for all-arounders. The CALs deserve a spot.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I though my CALs gave My DT770 Pro 80-Ohm some good competition.


 
  I would like to try the CALs, and would buy them if I could find them for the same price they sell in the US. I can get them off amazon. I would be at 200bucks by then with taxes+shipping+duty. I am at DT770pros level. When something like this happens I just keep chanting (socialized medical, socialized medical.) Someday that chant will not mean squat but for now it gets me through the amazon.com jealousy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> I would like to try the CALs, and would buy them if I could find them for the same price they sell in the US. I can get them off amazon. I would be at 200bucks by then with taxes+shipping+duty. I am at DT770pros level. When something like this happens I just keep chanting (socialized medical, socialized medical.) Someday that chant will not mean squat but for now it gets me through the amazon.com jealousy.




Yeah, that's a bit expensive. If you're getting an amp, then the DT770 Pros are very slightly better. Ampless, the CAL is a no brainer. They sound full, warm, and pleasant at all times, amp or not.


----------



## Timobkg

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You guys are overthinking your purchases too much. Most of these headphones will make most of you happy.


 
  That's undoubtedly true, but when spending $100-200 on something, I want do as much research as I can to make sure I'm buying the best I can. I'm risk averse that way.  
   
  For example, you guys just made me learn that I don't actually want closed headphones, and would be happier with open or semi-open ones. 
   
  So given that, which headphones should I be looking at for comfort and recreational gaming in an open / semi-open design?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I would like to try the CALs, and would buy them if I could find them for the same price they sell in the US. I can get them off amazon. I would be at 200bucks by then with taxes+shipping+duty. I am at DT770pros level. When something like this happens I just keep chanting (socialized medical, socialized medical.) Someday that chant will not mean squat but for now it gets me through the amazon.com jealousy.


 
  On eBay, you might find some used ones that can be shipped to Canada.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> On eBay, you might find some used ones that can be shipped to Canada.


 
  Hmm this is a thought. I still think I am Beyer man. That comfort is out of this world imo. 
  I just picked up some Koss DJ100s which I know for a fact I won't be using for Dolby purposes. The soundstage is tighter on them like you are sitting on the edge of the stage. But if anything they are a great lounging on the bed chillin headphone.
   
  I am tempted to pull the trigger on the T70s just to say I did but that really nasty mid bass spike to over 600 ohms weirds me the hell out.

   
  Unless I am totally reading this wrong.
   
  I am also totally sold on the clarity of the AKG K550 and don't really care about the so called lacking bass. I care more about moving my head and then having to spend 5 mins to get a seal again. (Again an over reaction I know.)
   
  Which puts me back to Pro900s and DT770 250ohm. Which I will probably just order on Friday for the hell of it.
   
  I know I am over thinking it and I apologize for that. Even if I don't get a reply back I feel better just for writing all my thoughts out. (Guess I should feel bad for taking up forum space. heh)


----------



## audiophizile

I was debating to go open again but even with my closed 350s I can hear my Xbox or video card during quiet moments when I'm trying to hear people. If I'm not happy with the HM5's (which are going to be here monday/tomorrow) after some break in I probably will go back to open though


----------



## Hailin

I just bought the AKG K550s I decided to stop thinking about it and just buy them. /shrug if they rock they rock. Hopefully will have them this week by Friday. I will take the dolby plunge on them.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey, if they sound at all like the Q701, they will NOT be boring or disappointing at all. Plus somebody just made a good point about sealed vs open: the Xbox is noisy and sloppy as hell, I hate that fan, twice as loud as the one on my computer's midrange graphics card and half as effective. Plus, closed makes a big difference when you want to use the headphones anywhere but a quiet room.

By the way MLE, I'm loving my Q701's so much I'm having a hard time putting them down and going to bed at night. SOOOO GOOD! Also, my LOD cable was definitely the problem earlier, I just remembered today that I can use my Mom's iPod dock for line out. I'm impressed with the quality even from my E5, though I want to re-buy my favorite albums on CD or some lossless format... Damn Rabbity hole!

I really want to unpack my Yamaha Reciever before upgradeitis urges get me to buy a Mixamp when I think I've already got the capabilities covered and then some. I will probably lose the battle (but win the war?) if i see a used Mixamp at a good price. Did awesome in CoD4 yesterday, but in stereo the positional cues are too vague to make me think my gaming experience is elevated from the AD700... But my music never sounded so good!


----------



## Evshrug

Can't sleep but I had a thought: does the Mixamp act as a DAC+AMP if it is connected via an optical cable? I have an optical out on my PC and Xbox, this could tip the scales...


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Can't sleep but I had a thought: does the Mixamp act as a DAC+AMP if it is connected via an optical cable? I have an optical out on my PC and Xbox, this could tip the scales...


 
   
  Yes. In fact, that's the ideal way to connect the MixAmp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Can't sleep but I had a thought: does the Mixamp act as a DAC+AMP if it is connected via an optical cable? I have an optical out on my PC and Xbox, this could tip the scales...


 
  Yes, the Mix-amp has a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and is there to turn the optical digital (zeros & ones) signal into an analog (wave) signal.
  As the mix-amp has been able to power 250-Ohms headphones, it at least has some feature that acts like a headphone amplifier.


----------



## calpis

I'm pretty certain that if you want to hook up the mixamp to the computer via optical you have to have a Dolby Digital Live capable sound card or the game has to have a Dolby Digital sound mix.Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'm pretty certain that if you want to hook up the mixamp to the computer via optical you have to have a Dolby Digital Live capable sound card or the game has to have a Dolby Digital sound mix.Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


 
  Sounds about right to me.
  But I wonder if plain 2-channel PCM works without the need for Dolby?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll test 2 channel PCM later on today. I believe the Mixamp might default to mixing a Pro Logic II signal from 2 channel sources, but I'm not certain if it works with strict signals like that. I do know it will mix PLII into DH if the signal is a Dolby Digital signal compressed to 2 channels (via RCA cables), or if the source itself has a PLII setting set to on.


----------



## audiophizile

I just read a reason I may not be happy with the hm5s for gaming :/ someone said the sound seems further away if it is in front and closer on the sides like putting a v on your head looking at the point. Now of course I'm going to be looking for that and may be unhappy. Oh well I guess if that happens the pc360s are on sale for $200. If that's the case they'd be top of my budget but would those be the best $200 headphones? Helps lower cost that they have a built in mic and don't need an amp...


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> Yes, the Mix-amp has a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and is there to turn the optical digital (zeros & ones) signal into an analog (wave) signal.
> As the mix-amp has been able to power 250-Ohms headphones, it at least has some feature that acts like a headphone amplifier.




Rats/Yay, depending on perspective.
Thanks for defining DAC for those following the thread, I forget to do that sometimes. I haven't researched the full specifications on my motherboard's sound capabilities yet beyond the brief printed manual (Gigabyte GA-Z68A-D3H-B3), but I assume that because it can send out 5.1 channel surround out through it's analogue and HDMI ports, so can it do through the optical port (S/PDIF).

Any info on if the Mixamp is a low-impedance amp?

Also AudioPhizle, I can attest that Xbox Audio sounds fine through adapters and a cheap E5 or E6 amp, I've been playing that way for years, and a microphone such as this one [=http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080][/] is so cheap that it's negligible to the overall cost. All this is assuming you don't want equipment to enable Dolby Headphone or similar surround-to-binaural decoding. If you only have $200 you may be better off overall getting a CAL! and the Astro Mixamp.


----------



## Timobkg

So now that I've learned that I'm looking for an open or semi-open headphone, what would you recommend to be fun and comfortable?
   
  The first page lists Beyer 990, but those are $300 on Amazon.  They sound awesome (great sound, great spacial positioning, enough bass to make games fun, very comfortable) but they're also really expensive since I'm only going to use them for gaming.
   
  1) I've seen the SR850 and HD668B recommended ($50 + $35 for velour pads on Amazon = $85 total), but heard they have strong clamping force. I think a local Sam Ash has the SR850, so I'll see if I can try them out.  Any recommendation whether the SR850 or 668B design is more comfortable? 
   
  1a)  I've heard that you can find velvet pads on Ebay for $15 for them, but I couldn't find anything other than the AKG pads for $35. Am I just doing it wrong?
   
  2) I've also seen the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S listed as an option ($30 + $23 for Beyer velour pds = $53 total). How would these compare to the SR850/668B? Which would you recommend?
   
  3) It seems like I'm jumping from $30-50 phones + $23-35 for pads to $300 phones. Any other models that I should look at?


----------



## Chronos

Anyone have suggestions for a closed competitive sub-$100 headphones (used or new)? Are the A700's same as the AD700 but closed?  I'm looking for headphones for competitive FPS gaming (ESEA CS1.6, CSS, etc).  I was concerned about open headphones leaking out too much sound and disturbing my parents for late night gaming, but if Open is the best for competitve gaming then I'm alright with it.  These wouldn't be used for music or anything else (got D7k's for that).  Bass really doesn't matter to me, as my main issue with the D7K's is that the bass can be fatiguing after an hour of gaming.
   
  Also I have a Creative X-fi Ti Fatal1ty (non-HD) that these would be running with using the Creative CMS 3D, EAX, etc. Is that pretty much the same as the Dolby headphone?
   
  Thanks guys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A700 is NOT a closed AD700. Not in the same series nor the same drivers.

Unless your parents are in the same room, an open headphone is not going to be an issue.


----------



## Chronos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The A700 is NOT a closed AD700. Not in the same series nor the same drivers.
> Unless your parents are in the same room, an open headphone is not going to be an issue.


 
   So basically sub-$100 used or new, the AD700 is the best bet? Any other suggestions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser HD555 if you can find them for cheap, and do the easy mod to make them sound like 595s. Should be quite a bang for buck IF you can get them now for under $100.


----------



## Evshrug

timobkg said:


> So now that I've learned that I'm looking for an open or semi-open headphone, what would you recommend to be fun and comfortable?
> 
> The first page lists Beyer 990, but those are $300 on Amazon.  They sound awesome (great sound, great spacial positioning, enough bass to make games fun, very comfortable) but they're also really expensive since I'm only going to use them for gaming.
> 
> ...




Have you considered the AD700? They started to become the only headphone I used for gaming, and they now seem like a redundant part of my collection. Expect them to show up on the For Sale forum soon.


----------



## audiophizile

evshrug said:


> Also AudioPhizle, I can attest that Xbox Audio sounds fine through adapters and a cheap E5 or E6 amp, I've been playing that way for years, and a microphone such as this one [=http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080][/] is so cheap that it's negligible to the overall cost. All this is assuming you don't want equipment to enable Dolby Headphone or similar surround-to-binaural decoding. If you only have $200 you may be better off overall getting a CAL! and the Astro Mixamp.



I already have the astro mixamp and pc350's but are buzzing putting any volume to them. I ordered hm5's that are waiting for me at home. I have played with open cans (hpx) and outside noise distracts me too much to really want to go back to open but if the hm5s aren't what I expect I may go to the 360's since finding a sub$200 set of closed that are clear, aren't overly bassy and have a good soundstage/pinpointing footsteps seems hard haha


----------



## Stn.

Newbie here - so basically, you need to spend >$300 (MixAmp, cheap headphones, mic) if you want a quality headset soloution? Otherwise I should be okay with a Steelseries Siberia V2 USB?


----------



## audiophizile

stn. said:


> Newbie here - so basically, you need to spend >$300 (MixAmp, cheap headphones, mic) if you want a quality headset soloution? Otherwise I should be okay with a Steelseries Siberia V2 USB?




Since you said USB I'm going to assume you're on a PC. From what I can tell the CAL! Would be better and cheaper or same price as the siberias. And getting a senn 555/558 and a mic and turning it into its big brother or a pc 360 would be the next step up. Pretty sure you don't need an amp to power those These guys know better then me though


----------



## Timobkg

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Have you considered the AD700? They started to become the only headphone I used for gaming, and they now seem like a redundant part of my collection. Expect them to show up on the For Sale forum soon.


 
  I've heard that all the Audio Technical cans are rather bass shy, which is good for competitive gaming, but not as for recreational / singleplayer / coop gaming that I tend to do.
   
  That's why I was looking at the 668B, SR850, RP-HTF600-S, RX-700, and CAL as those have all been recommended as fun gaming headphones. Now I just need some advice for narrowing down my options in terms of what would be better and more comfortable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

M50s aren't bass shy. However, they don't work well with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chronos said:


> Anyone have suggestions for a closed competitive sub-$100 headphones (used or new)? Are the A700's same as the AD700 but closed?  I'm looking for headphones for competitive FPS gaming (ESEA CS1.6, CSS, etc).  I was concerned about open headphones leaking out too much sound and disturbing my parents for late night gaming, but if Open is the best for competitve gaming then I'm alright with it.  These wouldn't be used for music or anything else (got D7k's for that).  Bass really doesn't matter to me, as my main issue with the D7K's is that the bass can be fatiguing after an hour of gaming.
> 
> Also I have a Creative X-fi Ti Fatal1ty (non-HD) that these would be running with using the Creative CMS 3D, EAX, etc. Is that pretty much the same as the Dolby headphone?


 
   
  You could just set up the D7000 on your gaming computer and EQ down the bass through the X-Fi to more comfortable levels. Might as well use what you've already got, right?
   
  CMSS-3D Headphone out of an X-Fi card serves the same function as Dolby Headphone, pretty much. You just have to make sure you set it up properly for games that use software audio. (Make sure to scroll down to the bottom, where it mentions Game Mode; obviously, that's the mode you want to use.)
   
  Also, you may want to set MacroFX and Elevation Filter to "On" instead of the default "Auto".


----------



## Evshrug

timobkg said:


> I've heard that all the Audio Technical cans are rather bass shy, which is good for competitive gaming, but not as for recreational / singleplayer / coop gaming that I tend to do.
> 
> That's why I was looking at the 668B, SR850, RP-HTF600-S, RX-700, and CAL as those have all been recommended as fun gaming headphones. Now I just need some advice for narrowing down my options in terms of what would be better and more comfortable.




I bought my friend a pair of JVC RX-900 (with the top-pop mod, by top-pop) as a graduation gift. He loves them, and I thought they were pretty great too. No comment about imaging, but they definitely didn't have the soundstage. I think they're good, well-rounded cans for music, but I've never tried them for gaming.

As for the AD700, it's fine if you don't want them; they are very popular and someone else will enjoy them. But there's a reason they're popular; the soundstage and detailed sound often makes sounds that trick you into thinking you just heard something outside the headphone. the bass isn't boosted or neutral but it does play deep sounds when called to task and it is very, very controlled. Takes well to FiiO's bass boost and EQ-ing, too. Most sounds in gaming aren't even that bassy, mostly massive explosions reach that low. They won't compare to your $1000 Denons, but that was the point: it's complementary to what you have (Open, light cans with sweetened highs) and punches way higher than it's price level.

But like I said, you make your choice, I'm pretty confident either way someone will want them.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> You could just set up the D7000 on your gaming computer and EQ down the bass through the X-Fi to more comfortable levels. Might as well use what you've already got, right?
> 
> CMSS-3D Headphone out of an X-Fi card serves the same function as Dolby Headphone, pretty much. You just have to make sure you set it up properly for games that use software audio. (Make sure to scroll down to the bottom, where it mentions Game Mode; obviously, that's the mode you want to use.)
> 
> Also, you may want to set MacroFX and Elevation Filter to "On" instead of the default "Auto".




Yes, I was curious (especially since you were computer gaming) why you wouldn't just try to make your $1k headphones work.


----------



## 0sync0

I've never found cans that don't become uncomfortable after a few minutes. Can you get decent surround sound with IEMs?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





0sync0 said:


> I've never found cans that don't become uncomfortable after a few minutes. Can you get decent surround sound with IEMs?


 
   
  Fans of the EDGE Acoustics GX400 (basically an Etymotic ER-4P with an in-line volume control and mic) suggest it's possible to get great gaming audio with IEMs...but I don't know if they were talking stereo or binaural/HRTF.
   
  Since I have yet to find any IEMs that were uncomfortable after a few minutes (yet I can tolerate circumaural headphones for long periods of time), I'm hesitant to plunk down the cash and find out the hard way.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





stn. said:


> Newbie here - so basically, you need to spend >$300 (MixAmp, cheap headphones, mic) if you want a quality headset soloution? Otherwise I should be okay with a Steelseries Siberia V2 USB?


 
   
  MixAmp = $130
  Zalman mic = $9 / Antlion Modmic = $40
  AD700 or HD 595 (used) = ~$70 - 90
   
  That's less than $300, not more than.
  You could also grab a PC 360 at ~$200 from Amazon right now, and save up for a new/used MixAmp later (~$100 to $130).
   
  I read that Siberia USB < regular Siberia; you might upgrade your soundcard at some point anyway, so why limit yourself to the built-in DAC/amp on the Siberia USB?
   
  Quote: 





0sync0 said:


> I've never found cans that don't become uncomfortable after a few minutes. Can you get decent surround sound with IEMs?


 
   
  What cans have you used before?
  I don't get the impression IEMs really do that well with virtual surround, at least via MixAmp. Tried JH13, wasn't convinced. In stereo gaming, I've tried the Senn IE8 (often praised for wide soundstage)--also wasn't convinced.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The RE0s perform quite well with Dolby Headphone, but it's still a far cry from what you'll hear with a full sized headphone in terms of soundstage and positioning. It works, but I wouldn't ever replace a full sized headphone, and would use the RE0s as a secondary if you're really insistent on using an IEM.


----------



## Ztrains

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I don't see how to get headphones (Planning on Audio Technica ATH-AD700) and a mic (Zalman Clip On) to work with an Xbox.  Do they go through the Astro amp?  Also, if I used the amp would I have cords all over the place?  Currently I am using Turtle Beach x11's, and have cords running from one side of my room to the other because my TV/Xbox is on one wall and I sit against the other wall to play, so I have a cord running across my whole floor.  If this sounds confusing let me know and I can try to explain it better.
   
  PS - Is there anywhere that sells the amp cheaper than $160?  I am a poor student and I don't think I can afford both the amp and headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





ztrains said:


> Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I don't see how to get headphones (Planning on Audio Technica ATH-AD700) and a mic (Zalman Clip On) to work with an Xbox.  Do they go through the Astro amp?  Also, if I used the amp would I have cords all over the place?  Currently I am using Turtle Beach x11's, and have cords running from one side of my room to the other because my TV/Xbox is on one wall and I sit against the other wall to play, so I have a cord running across my whole floor.  If this sounds confusing let me know and I can try to explain it better.
> 
> PS - Is there anywhere that sells the amp cheaper than $160?  I am a poor student and I don't think I can afford both the amp and headphones.


 
   
  Depends on the amp you're wanting and if you go used. I got my Mixamp Pro on the forums here under $90. Though you don't see them often on here. I see them used on ebay all the time. I guess people just want the headphones and then sell the mixamp after. Shame really, as it's the best half of that combination.
   
  As for the first question, kinda. You run the mic into the mixamp, then there's a cable coming out of the mixamp going to the controller. It sounds complicated, but it's actually quite easy to work with.


----------



## Eric_C

Ztrains: check Astro's website. They have the manual there and that should explain the whole setup with diagrams and all.


----------



## Jay 23

asked this question in some other thread maybe someone in here can help me
   
    
was wondering if i purchase the samson SR850 for my xbox 360, do i need anything else to use them for everyday gaming? (like any wires or other attachments) 

   
  also are these the best gaming headphones for someone with a low budget?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





jay 23 said:


> asked this question in some other thread maybe someone in here can help me
> 
> also are these the best gaming headphones for someone with a low budget?


 
   
  How are you going to connect everything?
 Xbox > TV > Headphones?
   
  And are you playing any multiplayer? You'll need a mic, right?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jay 23 said:


> Asked this question in some other thread maybe someone in here can help me
> Also are these the best gaming headphones for someone with a low budget?


 
  Best gaming headphones for the price.


----------



## Jay 23

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> How are you going to connect everything?
> Xbox > TV > Headphones?
> 
> And are you playing any multiplayer? You'll need a mic, right?


 
  ill be connecting it to my asus monitor(model:vh236), so xbox > monitor > headphones
   
  and yea ill be playing a lot of multiplayer, were communicating is very important haha


----------



## Evshrug

jay 23 said:


> ill be connecting it to my asus monitor(model:vh236), so xbox > monitor > headphones
> 
> and yea ill be playing a lot of multiplayer, were communicating is very important haha




Well that depends on if your monitor has a headphone jack. Prolly not. What I do is probably going to be close to your setup. Cable to your display, audio out to an amp, amp to headphones.

 Cable from Xbox to monitor (in my case a cheap Amazon Basics HDMI to DVI cable), audio out to an amp (some use the Xbox's included audio cables; I bought a cheap Xbox 360 audio dongle with an optical out and RCA out, and I connect the RCA to my FiiO E5 amp using a RCA-to-3.5mm headphone adapter), and finally I plug my headphones in. Then I wear a cheap mic around my neck and play game audio and chat audio through "speakers" in the Xbox preferences. That's probably just $12 in adapters plus the $25 of my FiiO, but it isn't as streamlined as plugging everything into the Mixamp, which is supposed to come with all the cables you need. Plus with the Mixamp you get the surround decoding.

I'm trying to hold off on buying a Mixamp as I graduated in December and I'm in a temporary living situation; once I have my own space, my receiver in storage will fill the role of the Mixamp in every way except for microphone duties. However, the Mixamp would've been perfect during college, and I probably would have held off on my receiver till I could afford something even higher end. Especially since it can double as a computer DAC. Just something to keep in mind.

Edit: that's a VERY nice monitor. Speakers when you just need near-field sound, HDMI and DVI to switch between computer & Xbox, 2ms response time, and audio outputs for Optical and Headphone. So you would just need to hook up your Xbox using HDMI, and plug your headphones into the 3.5mm jack, and you'll be in business. If you get the Mixamp or a receiver later, you can use the Optical out for surround sound and a discrete amp. Good choice in monitor, I'm jealous


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm trying to hold off on buying a Mixamp as I graduated in December and I'm in a temporary living situation; once I have my own space, my receiver in storage will fill the role of the Mixamp in every way except for microphone duties.


 
   
  Your receiver has Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Stn.

audiophizile said:


> Since you said USB I'm going to assume you're on a PC. From what I can tell the CAL! Would be better and cheaper or same price as the siberias. And getting a senn 555/558 and a mic and turning it into its big brother or a pc 360 would be the next step up. Pretty sure you don't need an amp to power those These guys know better then me though



The problem is I am on a laptop which only has a single combo jack. I can't plug both a mic and headphones in simultaneously. I suppose there's some sort of adapter for this?




eric_c said:


> MixAmp = $130
> Zalman mic = $9 / Antlion Modmic = $40
> AD700 or HD 595 (used) = ~$70 - 90
> 
> ...



Fair enough. I din't think I understand what the MixAmp is actually for - can you clarify why it is used? Is it to connect headphone/mic combo to consoles? Or as an amp to better Dolby surround sound?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





jay 23 said:


> ill be connecting it to my asus monitor(model:vh236), so xbox > monitor > headphones
> 
> and yea ill be playing a lot of multiplayer, were communicating is very important haha


 
   
  You'll still need a mic. Cheapest way is to use the official Xbox headset and hang it around your neck so the mic stands up; for audio, hit your Guide button and go: Preferences > Voice > Voice Output and select "Speakers". With your setup, this will get chat audio into your headphones.
   
  Quote: 





stn. said:


> The problem is I am on a laptop which only has a single combo jack. I can't plug both a mic and headphones in simultaneously. I suppose there's some sort of adapter for this?
> Fair enough. I din't think I understand what the MixAmp is actually for - can you clarify why it is used? Is it to connect headphone/mic combo to consoles? Or as an amp to better Dolby surround sound?


 
   
  Yes, there are really cheap options that can turn a USB port into 2 separate audio in/out ports:

  No guarantees about sound quality, obviously.
   
  MixAmp is for virtual surround using Dolby tech; it also handles the game/chat audio "mix" (hence the name), so yes, you can plug in any headset or headphone+mic combi and it will work. How _well_ the combos work is the main point of this thread. 
  Note: a MixAmp isn't to "better Dolby surround", it's to process Dolby surround (5.1) for headphones (2.0).


----------



## calpis

You can also use an Asus xonar U3 ($40) for a usb solution since it has  Dolby Headphone. I have a U1 that I got for cheap and that works well too.


----------



## motorwayne

Update
   
  Just received a pair of AKG 240MKII's
   
  Plugged into a Xonar Phoebus..Set with just Dolby 4.0, no effects.
   
  These babies rock the socks off my previous Sennheiser PC360's...no competition.
   
  The Bangs have huge attack and THUMP, weapons CRACK is a good hard sound.
   
  BF3 = Amazing
   
  Directional sound exceptional


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Your receiver has Dolby Headphone?




Not exactly, it's a Yamaha RX-V371 with "Silent Cinema." From their website:


> SILENT CINEMA makes it possible to hear large-scale surround sound through ordinary headphones! This is a variation of CINEMA DSP technology that Yamaha developed to let you listen in private to movies and other multi-channel sources for hours without listening fatigue.



I don't remember clearly how well it works, but before I moved and packed my Yamaha away I tried it with Dead Space and Alan Wake, and I clearly remember that I was freaked out. Intense. Which is a pretty good indicator that I was definitely getting the full experience. I may see a quality increase from putting an amp between the receiver and headphone though.

Chicolom, I was meaning to ask you: I saw that you're enjoying your current amp in your sig with the AKG Q701, I was wondering what was your upgrade path before choosing that amp? I'm new to Q701 goodness ^__^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Silent Cinema is an alternative to Dolby Headphone. Some people actually prefer it. Haven't heard it myself though.


----------



## audiophizile

Initial impressions with the HM5: I thoght my Pc350's were good for directionality and footsteps hahaha literally night and day in bf3. With the pc350 everyhing sounded like chaos in comparison. The hm5'severything is crystal clear. i now know where guys are and when they are going to hit a corner loud and extremely clear, not a jumbled mess. Yet to test them in a COD game which is where most of my experience was with the pc350s(lots of gamebattles for mw2, even had a good run and placed 34th out of 44000) so i'll have to do that soon. With music im undecided but they only have 8 hours of mixed time logged. They do sound like they have a broader flatter range both to lows and highs which is great. Pretty crisp and well defined all around. I do however notice the very slight "listening in a well" sound with music. I think it is partly the pads that cause this because when i apply slight pressure to the cups while listening it reduces it. But, this is probably the reason they sound so great with dolby headphone and annihilate the pc350s soundstage/positional awareness and clarity. Comfort isnt quite as good as the pc350. Clamps a little tighter, little heavier(pc350s weigh nothing), and get a little hotter. I did wear them for 8 hours straight with only bathroom breaks and to grab a beer or 2 and was never unhappy though. Probably say a 7.5 for comfort. Theyre currently breaking in more at my house and will give more impressions(and in COD games) later in the week but for closed gaming cans coming from the pc350 I'm absolutely blown away with how much easier it is to hear CLEARLY exactly where sounds are


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear they are working out for you. You may wanna stretch the headphones out with books or dvd/game cases, so they don't clamp as much.


----------



## audiophizile

Yeah, probably shouldve done that today while theyre at home breaking in. If they dont loosen up a little from normal wear I'll have to try it out. how long should you leave em like that?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Not exactly, it's a Yamaha RX-V371 with "Silent Cinema." From their website:  Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I believe Yamaha once said the RX-V371 can power headphones up to 450-Ohm, so it might do a decent job at driving the Q701.
  From what I understand when headphones are plugged into a receiver, the amplifier(s) inside stops powering the speaker and switch over to powering the headphones, so the Q701 should get enough "juice".
  I'm a happy Yamaha RX-V671 user.


----------



## audiophizile

I do want to clarify that in COD games I never had a problem placing people with the pc350 that was only bf3 because there is a lot more going on in bf3(chaos) and it was hard for me to seperate the sounds well. With the hm5 its not only no longer a problem, its extremely easy. My hopes are high for COD


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> I believe Yamaha once said the RX-V371 can power headphones up to 450-Ohm, so it might do a decent job at driving the Q701.
> From what I understand when headphones are plugged into a receiver, the amplifier(s) inside stops powering the speaker and switch over to powering the headphones, so the Q701 should get enough "juice".
> I'm a happy Yamaha RX-V671 user.



Ooh! More impetuous to leave my moms house, as if I didn't have enough reason already LOL. I wonder where they hide the headphone jack specs? I don't know for sure if the speaker amps also amp the headphone jack, but I DO know there is no amp-age going to the speakers once you plug into the headphone jack. Embarrassingly, I spend half an hour or more scratching my head about why my speakers weren't working, only to realize I couldn't leave my 1/4" to 1/8" adapter in the headphone jack. That was the only time I cranked the amp up to MAX (scary), and there was nary a whisper coming from the speakers. Thankfully I turned it down before unplugging the adapter.

AudioPhizle,
If you're anything like me, going back to MW3 will feel stale and boring by comparison, lol! I just wish EA wasn't... EA. BF3 is a great game, but I think the whole online pass and server rental instead of dedicated servers is bull, and when my harddrive crashed with neither Xbox Live or EA remembering I had the preorder maps, the game was ruined for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900s are waiting for me at home. About 5 more hours...

I hope they don't fail me.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol hard time concentrating on work?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haha, nah. My work can be done by a 5 year old. Boredom is the killer.


----------



## 0sync0

Like the OP I have difficulty finding comfortable headphones (haven't found any yet). I went through the first post and looked for cans with a comfort score of 8 or higher and a competitive score of 8 or higher.
   
  First was the AKG K701/K702/Q701. The comment is that these are comfort-wise, quite polarizing.
   
  Next and last is the Denon D7000, which is out of my price range.
   
  I know comfort is a very subjective thing, but this doesn't look encouraging. I live in a rural area and am not in a position to try out cans in a store.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Not exactly, it's a Yamaha RX-V371 with "Silent Cinema."
> 
> Chicolom, I was meaning to ask you: I saw that you're enjoying your current amp in your sig with the AKG Q701, I was wondering what was your upgrade path before choosing that amp? I'm new to Q701 goodness ^__^


 
   
  I've only briefly tried silent cinema, but it didn't impress me as much as dolby headphone.  Supposedly you can tweak it though.  The reciever I tried it on was very entry level as well.
   
   
  I started with the E10, then got the got the E9.  Later I sold the E9 and got the M-stage.  I wasn't concerned that the E9 wasn't enough power or anything.  I new I was going to get an HRT Music Streamer II DAC, and I read on Head-fi that the HRT MS II output voltage was higher than the E9s input voltage and would cause clipping.  So I wanted to offload the E9 before I got the HRT MS II and I chose to get the M-stage to replace it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pro 900, initial impressions... not sure how I feel at the moment. Not enough testing. I feel like it's veiled compared to the D7000, which isn't what I expected. I expected it to sound bright and overly energetic, but that's not what I'm hearing. Sounds a bit muffled in the vocals. I would definitely say the mids are recessed compared to the D7000. I've been very used to the D7000 sound, and vocals are definitely not as pushed back as this. I'm not gonna penalize the Pro 900 just yet, as they are fresh out of the box.

The bass is definitely the showrunner. Fortunately, it's not a fatiguing bass, and while being very strong, is pretty snappy and well textured. Not exactly as awe-inspiring in quality as the Pro 2900 and DT990's less prominent, but higher quality bass, but definitely a lot more influential to the overall sound. Bassheads would do well with the Pro 900.

Treble is clean, and energetic. No problems here. 

I guess I'm getting used to the mids not being so recessed in the D7000 and Q701, that I'm starting to currently miss it with the Pro 900. Time will tell. As it stands, the mids are a definite weak spot, there is a lot of lyrics I feel aren't coming through clearly in music.

 The D7000, while being weaker in the mids compared to bass and treble, I certainly wouldn't call them weak in the mids.

I will have to do let music run through them for a few hours, and let myself get acquainted to their sound.

Comfort is good, and I love the amount of clamp they have. They stay in place really well, and I could see myself having very little issue using these laying down. Happy to use something that doesn't slide around at all, unlike the D7000 and Q701 which are loose fitting.

Definitely like them compared to the Pro 2900, but I must say that bass aside (Pro 2900 having significantly less bass), they sound remarkably similar. Guess that is that Ultrasone house sound.

edit: I love the bass on these things. Definitely hits harder in the right places compared to the D7000, which is a tad more reserved, though the Pro 900 definitely doesn't fill out the lower notes as well as the D7000 does (for example, Borgore's Ice Cream, which is a filthy dubstep track... the notes have more authority on the D7000 due to it registering on the lower end of the bass spectrum). I'd say the D7000 is for the audiophilic basshead, and the Pro 900 is for the bassheads between pure basshead to audiophile basshead. But damn, the Pro 900's bass impact is just SEXY.

I wish I had a DT990 Premium to compare it to, as I feel that would be it's closest comparison, soundstage and airyness aside. I feel DT990 fans who wanted a closed headphone, should look into the Pro 900. The Pro 900 is easier on ears due to less invasive treble. The bass on the Pro 900 is definitely the highest quality bass I've heard in a closed headphone other than the D7000. But hot damn, that Pro 900 has some amazing bass texture. Jesus. Lovely. Just don't feel that the Pro 900 is an audiophile level headphone. Just a damn good basshead can.

For those with the Pro 900s who contemplated on upgrading to the D7000, trust me, it IS a clear upgrade. The Pro 900 is nice, but the D7000 is a monster.

I'm pretty sure S-Logic is to blame for the recessed mids, as the Pro 2900 was a very well balanced headphone and it still had some noticeable mid recession. Wanna clarify that it's the 'low to mid' midrange that's recessed. The upper mids are pretty clean and not too recessed..


----------



## Jay 23

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> You'll still need a mic. Cheapest way is to use the official Xbox headset and hang it around your neck so the mic stands up; for audio, hit your Guide button and go: Preferences > Voice > Voice Output and select "Speakers". With your setup, this will get chat audio into your headphones.


 
  is there another option for a mic? i dont have my xbox headsets anymore 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well that depends on if your monitor has a headphone jack. Prolly not. What I do is probably going to be close to your setup. Cable to your display, audio out to an amp, amp to headphones.
> Cable from Xbox to monitor (in my case a cheap Amazon Basics HDMI to DVI cable), audio out to an amp (some use the Xbox's included audio cables; I bought a cheap Xbox 360 audio dongle with an optical out and RCA out, and I connect the RCA to my FiiO E5 amp using a RCA-to-3.5mm headphone adapter), and finally I plug my headphones in. Then I wear a cheap mic around my neck and play game audio and chat audio through "speakers" in the Xbox preferences. That's probably just $12 in adapters plus the $25 of my FiiO, but it isn't as streamlined as plugging everything into the Mixamp, which is supposed to come with all the cables you need. Plus with the Mixamp you get the surround decoding.
> I'm trying to hold off on buying a Mixamp as I graduated in December and I'm in a temporary living situation; once I have my own space, my receiver in storage will fill the role of the Mixamp in every way except for microphone duties. However, the Mixamp would've been perfect during college, and I probably would have held off on my receiver till I could afford something even higher end. Especially since it can double as a computer DAC. Just something to keep in mind.
> Edit: that's a VERY nice monitor. Speakers when you just need near-field sound, HDMI and DVI to switch between computer & Xbox, 2ms response time, and audio outputs for Optical and Headphone. So you would just need to hook up your Xbox using HDMI, and plug your headphones into the 3.5mm jack, and you'll be in business. If you get the Mixamp or a receiver later, you can use the Optical out for surround sound and a discrete amp. Good choice in monitor, I'm jealous


 
   
  Thanks for all of that man, and yea i picked up that monitor a year or two ago on black friday for about $130.
   
  I prefer playing halo and cod on a smaller screen.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jay 23 said:


> I prefer playing halo and cod on a smaller screen.




No kidding. I have a 65" TV that I use for gaming, but CoD just looks too damn big on it, and I have to sit considerably further on my bed than I normally do for everything else. Speaking of, I'm about to0 do my BLOPS test with the Pro 900.

edit: What? That 1st, 15th, 20th track on the CD that came with the Pro 900s sounds like binaural! AWESOME!


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





jay 23 said:


> is there another option for a mic? i dont have my xbox headsets anymore


 
   
  It might be possible to connect one direct to your Xbox controller--you'll likely need a 3.5mm-to-2.5mm convertor that is also stereo-to-mono. I'm not sure about specifics though, so don't go buying anything just based on what I'm saying.
*Evshrug, *how do you connect your mic to the Xbox?


----------



## Hailin

So I got my E09K/E17 combo, it is so weird. It has totally changed the sound of my DT990pros. The bass is completely different. It has gone from incredibly sloppy to super tight at first I thought missing but no it is still there it has just changed so much tonally. They don't even sound like the same headphones. Promised myself I wasn't going to do any more online shopping but it seems I may have to go to monoprice for some rca to3.5mm for my mixamp, unless I just use the E17 with the mixamp. 
  Lots of testing to do. 
   
  I now believe Beyers need an amp, it is so different.
   
  Edit: I switched to lo bypass on the E17 to get rid of the double amping and the bass returned full force. Granted I can't use the E17's function but I can use 192k24bit I am sure that doesn't mean much of anything. But it is still very much different then it was. It goes deeper and still keeps that tightness overall. The whole overall sound is fuller.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Told you! Beyers are no bueno without amping... 

So update on the Pro 900s... oh yeah, I could TOTALLY get used to these for gaming. Clean sound, great positioning, comfort for hours (for me anyway), and VELOUR!

Looks like these are keepers. 

*Preliminary scores*: (as in the very short time I have used them). These may and probably WILL change, once I have put them through the ringer.

Music: 8. That mid recession is noticeable, but we'll see. For bassheads, and v shaped fans, these would be an 8.5/9.

Competitive: 7.5 (not enough testing, but so far it's good. The bass is not obstructive in the least, but still not as detail whoring as the Pro 2900 due to the focus on bass. These are good for competitive, and if this is your only can, they will do just fine for all purpose gaming, I believe..

Fun: 9 Definitely top notch for fun. Might go up to a 9.5.

Comfort: 7.5. This is a score I'll give which is identical to the Pro 2900. That being said, PERSONALLY, the comfort is an 8 for both, but going by everyone else, the clamp and top padding may be an issue, so I'm keeping the score realistic.


Like the Pro 2900, I think they make better gaming cans, than music cans. I am going to blame S-logic for making music sound just slightly off. Considering the addition of virtual surround, S-Logic's effect was a non-issue, and may actually aid the cans for gaming in virtual surround.

I would also say, that so far, I think they are overpriced, and belong in the same price range as the popular mid-fi price range of $200-$300. $250 sounds like where I'd put them based on sound quality. Something that competes with the popular Beyers.

IF the DT990 Pro's bass didn't bother me as much as it did, I might be inclined on saying that those are on par with the Pro 900 as well. In fact, I believe the Pro 900 vs DT990 Pro is the BEST possible comparison, with the exception of closed vs open sound difference. Still, the combination of bass, gaming performance, comfort, velours, it being easy to drive, make the Pro 900 more logical for me compared to the others. The Beyers have a so-so comfort due to it's loose fit, and jaw discomfort. Q701 is lacking the bass I want overall and also cause me to reposition them frequently. HE-4 needs more power than I believe I have on hand. I was close to getting the HE400, but I just know that they'll be too warm for me.

Looks like the Pro 900 is my best possible alternative to the D7000, which is why I'm most likely going to stick with them. Wore them for a few hours, and they didn't get hot or needed repositioning. It's a win so far.

Oh yes, they are INCREDIBLY dorky looking when worn. Seriously, lol.


----------



## Jay 23

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No kidding. I have a 65" TV that I use for gaming, but CoD just looks too damn big on it, and I have to sit considerably further on my bed than I normally do for everything else. Speaking of, I'm about to0 do my BLOPS test with the Pro 900.
> edit: What? That 1st, 15th, 20th track on the CD that came with the Pro 900s sounds like binaural! AWESOME!


 
Yup i have a 32" tv and the only thing i can play on it is madden, 2k and some single player games.
   
The asus monitor is one of the best gaming monitors out(MLG used it in 2011). Supper fast response time and almost no input lag+ beautiful picture


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Another clarification: The Pro 900's bass does not bleed into the midrange pretty much at all. It's quite a feat. That bass is anything BUT sloppy. They are sounding better and better the longer I listen to them. Ear burn in. 

The mids are sounding less recessed too. I doubt anything changed in the headphone, but perhaps it's just me getting used to the sound presentation.

If anyone has spare Ultrasone gray pads, I'm willing to trade my black spares.


----------



## calpis

That Ultrasone demo cd has some great recordings and a good aid for demoing headphones. I personally just ripped it into flac just so I can access it easier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, i ripped it too. Gotta love how companies deceive with sound quality, as if making those binaural tracks seem like it's S-logic's doing.


----------



## Phos

Looks like Beyer pads would fit.  Man, what happened to Ultrasone's grey pads?  Weird.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Gotta love how companies deceive with sound quality, as if making those binaural tracks seem like it's S-logic's doing.


 
   
  I think a fair amount of people think that about Astro too.  They think Astro's headsets are "surround sound" headsets, and the mixamp just mixes chat.  I helped another buddy get a mixamp recently and he was concerned that without the A40s he wouldn't get surround sound.  He was confused when I told him it worked with any pair of headphones, not just Astro phones.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I've only briefly tried silent cinema, but it didn't impress me as much as dolby headphone.  Supposedly you can tweak it though.  The reciever I tried it on was very entry level as well.
> 
> 
> I started with the E10, then got the got the E9.  Later I sold the E9 and got the M-stage.  I wasn't concerned that the E9 wasn't enough power or anything.  I new I was going to get an HRT Music Streamer II DAC, and I read on Head-fi that the HRT MS II output voltage was higher than the E9s input voltage and would cause clipping.  So I wanted to offload the E9 before I got the HRT MS II and I chose to get the M-stage to replace it.




Hmm, something to ponder. The Music Streamer II has popped up a few times and I assume is quite popular. For me, with a 5th Gen iPod big enough for my entire digital music library, Xbox, MacBook Pro, and a hackintosh as my sources, I don't foresee advantages over a more conventional DAC. But maybe once I test out my Yamaha once I move in and if I find it lacking my assessment might change. I hope not, as the Yamaha would be a more versatile and streamlined setup, and you (I) can't get everything you want. Doesn't the M-Stage USB have it's own DAC anyway?



eric_c said:


> It might be possible to connect one direct to your Xbox controller--you'll likely need a 3.5mm-to-2.5mm convertor that is also stereo-to-mono. I'm not sure about specifics though, so don't go buying anything just based on what I'm saying.
> *Evshrug, *how do you connect your mic to the Xbox?



Honestly? I just have a platronics X10 headset plugged directly into my controller, with the headband ringing my neck and the mic sticking up towards my mouth. LOL. Of course, the mic position isn't perfect when worn this way. Usually, chat = recreational gaming, because I'm often paying more attention to the chat, joking around and talking louder than the game audio. I'm not the best at comprehending speech when other things get too loud, I get distracted by one or the other if the context doesn't match. I'm a fan of the X10 as even though it costs less than the MS mic headset, the X10's mic pickup is much better and I'm only on my second pair in my 7 years of Xbox 360 ownership.

Before I saw MLE's suggestion for the clip-on, I was considering the Platronics MX150 headset because I reasoned I could fasten that in a good position and use it double-duty with my cellphone. It should work without any adapters. http://www.amazon.com/Plantronics-MX150-Flexible-Boom-Headset/dp/B0000ALPBP/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 I would recommend going for the Mini Clip-on mic Mad Lust Envy posted recently, though the 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter you would need is going to cost another dollar. Theoretically, this one should work, because the clip-on mic has the same 3 sections on it's plug: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001078FV8/ref=gno_cart_title_2

Mics are troublesome.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Honestly? I just have a platronics X10 headset plugged directly into my controller, with the headband ringing my neck and the mic sticking up towards my mouth.


 
  ^5, that's how I used my Xbox headset too. 
   
  Btw have you tried adjusting game volume down in the Xbox sys. prefs.? It helps a little.


----------



## Evshrug

eric_c said:


> ^5, that's how I used my Xbox headset too.
> 
> Btw have you tried adjusting game volume down in the Xbox sys. prefs.? It helps a little.



Yeah, a lot, but I think I over did it because I thought the game volume would be constant if I changed the balance. This is not so, and my game audio is almost muted now when people talk and then the game volume shoots back up if they ever shaddap (lol). I've just been too lazy or focusing on other things to adjust it more.
I bet I could achieve a higher mic/game ratio as a constant if I went into a game's options--> audio and turned down the volume there while turning up the system volume, but then I would have to do that with each game I want to chat with (even party chat I think) and I'd want to change it back when I want to use my speakers. Maybe I have that all mixed up right now (it's 4:30am for me, got up this morning at 7! What's wrong with me?), but still it proves the convenience of the Mixamp's game/chat volume live mixer dial. I already switch between chat-audio-through-speaker and -through-headset more often than I like.


_(Silent Cinema may be awesome Silent Cinema may be awesome Silent Cinema may be enough...)_

O_O


----------



## Eric_C

Eh, I dunno if that will help that much. That's why I got a MixAmp too.


----------



## Evshrug

O_______o


----------



## Eric_C

Oops sorry I meant adjusting the mic/in-game/system audio. No idea about Silent Cinema.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh actually I read it the way you intended, the hollow expression is a combination of my fatigue and my effort to resist buying a Mixamp in the face of the numerous recommendations.


----------



## SpaceCake

Great thread, I just received my astro mixamp and zalman mic today and I'm using it with the HD595 and I love it! Because last year I didn't found this thread with all the information(searched in the wrong section on headfi xD) I bought the Tritton's AXPRO but those things really hurt my ears after an hour and were so heavy and uncomfortable.

Will probably also buy the Antlion MODMIC with mute button when it is released! Check out this tweet: 





> ModMic 2.0, near complete. ~2 months until on sale. Thicker cable, many improvements. Still sleek. Same sound. Mute button coming in ~3 mo. https://twitter.com/AntLionAudio/status/222823874738397184


----------



## Chronos

Solely in terms of pure performance as a competitive FPS headphone (no music/entertainment duties), would you say the AD700 or the HD595 performs better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Competitive-wise, one wouldn't outdo the other.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





spacecake said:


> Great thread, I just received my astro mixamp and zalman mic today and I'm using it with the HD595 and I love it! Because last year I didn't found this thread with all the information(searched in the wrong section on headfi xD) I bought the Tritton's AXPRO but those things really hurt my ears after an hour and were so heavy and uncomfortable.
> Will probably also buy the Antlion MODMIC with mute button when it is released! Check out this tweet:


 

 I will be one of the first in line to pick that up then. My biggest hope is that they keep the mounting mechanism the same so I can use the ones already installed on my headphones. I love my modmic but the lack of mute is an inconvenience.


----------



## SpaceCake

axelcloris said:


> I will be one of the first in line to pick that up then. My biggest hope is that they keep the mounting mechanism the same so I can use the ones already installed on my headphones. I love my modmic but the lack of mute is an inconvenience.




So true, really miss a mute button but I hope the price is not too steep(eg $40-$50) because for €100,- I can buy a PC360 with added bonus that I don't have to constantly change the headphone between my PC and PS3.


----------



## Evshrug

Problem is, once you've got a great setup, you realize "Hot-damn, there's nothing easy left to make me a better player but to practice my skill. What a chore!"
Lol.
Mad,
Do you use an adapter at any point with your microphone, or does the Mixamp provide the bridge between mic-only plug and 2.5mm controller jack? Both sizes of microphone plug accommodated?

I take a nap, sorry if you didn't need to know that.


----------



## calpis

You have to use the Y-cable that splits the mic and headphone audio to different plugs to be able to hook up a your own mic to the mixamp. Then the mixamp is connected to the xbox controller directly via a 2.5mm interconnect cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Problem is, once you've got a great setup, you realize "Hot-damn, there's nothing easy left to make me a better player but to practice my skill. What a chore!"
> Lol.
> Mad,
> Do you use an adapter at any point with your microphone, or does the Mixamp provide the bridge between mic-only plug and 2.5mm controller jack? Both sizes of microphone plug accommodated?
> I take a nap, sorry if you didn't need to know that.




The Mixamp comes with a small 2.5mm to 2.5mm cable that goes from the 360 controller to the Mixamp. the mic itself will go to the y cable supplied, that goes to the Mixamp's headphone/mic jack. For the PS3, the Mixamp Pro's USB will be all you need to get voice chat to your mic, and on the Mixamp 5.8, you need a special usb cable that connects from the Tx unit to the PS3.

I hope you understand... it can be confusing.


----------



## NamelessPFG

A ModMic with a mute switch? Now I'm really glad I held off on the first one despite it being so tempting.
   
  It may not be cheap, but there's no other way to make a reasonably elegant Stax headset...


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, my nap powered me up and I understand that the Mixamp has a smartphone style 3-rings-and-a-ground plug with an adapter to make it like a PC's headphone and mic ports. I don't have a PS3, so I don't care much, but do the Mixamps act like an external USB DAC/amp from just the USB connection? Or do you also need an optical/RCA cable plugged in?

I had more typed, but my iPad battery died and forgot my unsubmitted text. Basically, I'm going to crack out my Yamaha tomorrow and do an analysis of how well Silent Cinema (SC) works. I wish I could compare directly to Dolby Headphone, but I don't have the equipment right now. Maybe someday... lend-ies? There is a paucity of objective analysis of SC positional accuracy, and ocomparisons I've seen with DH are all over the board and very subjective, no details from anyone. I think a good controlled test since I own ES:Oblivion will be to walk up to two people having a convo and spin slowly, testing if the speaker comes in view when expected and trying different distances. Is there anything else I should try?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The USB DAC is stereo only, and it was never intended for audio use, but for mic use. It can however work with PCs in that way, but again, stereo only.

The Mixamp Pro. Not sure if the 5.8 does USB Dac duties. Can't be arsed to try it out. (My Mixamp setup is tucked away from my PC area).


----------



## Phos

If you want surround over USB you can check out the Creative Recon 3D.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, going from the Pro 900 to the D7000 is sad. Like... it's a MASSIVE leap in SQ. There is absolutely no comparison. NONE. AT ALL. The only thing the Pro 900 does better overall is bass quantity. I hadn't touched my D7000 for days. So I decided to do a quick A/B, having listened to the Pro 900 for plenty of hours today.

There is simply no way anyone could consider the Pro 900 to come close to the D7000. The Pro 900 sounds closed in, muffled, mid recessed, and just outright outclassed by the D7000.

Usually when you jump in from one headphone to the next, the next usually sounds weird because you're accustomed to the sound of the previous headphone. Didn't happen this time. The D7000 just devours the Pro 900 in all aspects but bass. No contest.

Ah well... now I'm not sure I wanna keep the Pro 900. AGH. That is quite disheartening. At least the Q701 had the jump in airyness and mids that trumped the D7000. Since the Pro 900 would be fighting the D7000 in the same genres, with the same strengths, it's very hard to recommend as an alternative to the D7000. Impossible, really. Of course, price is a factor, but damn... it's an ass whooping, if I've ever heard one.

Like, I'm having a hard time putting down the D7000 now. 



I mean, the Pro 900 IS my best alternative for whenever I get tired of the pleather in the D7000, but I know in the back of my mind that the Pro 900 is significantly trailing behind. Please don't get me wrong. The pro 900 is a damn good headphone. The D7000 is just an absolute monster next to them though. That being said, I just went back to the Pro 900, and they have their own charm, mainly that sweet, sweet bass. Makes them a guilty pleasure... one that is making me wanna keep them, just barely.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I guess that's to be expected when you're going from a $350 headphone to a $650-900 one, and the latter actually earns its pricetag.
   
  It's also likely that the D7000 is _the one_ for you, aside from those pleather pads. In the meantime, you could try cutting up a soft cloth (I don't remember the exact type, but it does feel kind of velour-ish) and attaching it to the D7000's earpads as a sort of ghetto velour alternative, like spacemanspliff did with the SR-Lambda he sold me and with his current SR850. It helps quite a bit, though I'd suggest doing it to a spare set of D7000 pads if you don't want glue or other crap all over them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I need to find something of the sort... all I really want is just a layer of velour that would go over the stock pads, to keep the stock SQ. 

Still, I have gone from the DT990, Q701, and other headphones in the >$250 range and still came out impressed overall. The Pro 900 for some reason just didn't impress me. Like, it's a really good headphone, but the fact that it's directly comparable to the D7000 in what it's SUPPOSED to do, it comes up short, like really short. The others have aspects of their sound that please me in ways the D7000 can't. The Pro 900 doesn't have anything that stands out other than bass, which is very prominent, but wonderfully clean and unobtrusive. Still, that's not the makings of an audiophile headphone, which is why it's disappointing. It doesn't do anything to save itself in a comparison. If the D7000 pads didn't bother me after some time, the Pro 900 would have been sent back IMMEDIATELY.

Still, I'll be fair to them and say that outside of a direct comparison, they are good. They would make lots of people happy for general purposes.

I just haven't had a headphone that sounded so congested like the pro 900s in a long time. I think that is the killer. There is no sense of airiness for most music. S-logic doesn't help AT ALL. The DT770s and D7000 sound quite airy in comparison. I was spoiled by the bigger than typical closed soundstages of the D7000/DT770.

That being said, the Pro 900 has really good soundstage in Dolby headphone, which can't be said of other closed headphones like the M50.

Almost makes me wanna go back to the DT990... for the 4th time. :rolleyes:


----------



## Eric_C

It really seems that S-Logic either:

 Doesn't do anything
 Makes people queasy
 Gives placebo effect for soundstaging (as a result of the binaural recording CD)
   
  MLE, the Denons clearly do it for you in terms of being _not _congested. That's great--it's so rare that a closed headphone achieves that. It really looks like you found the holy grail already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did! I'm telling you... some velours on the D7000 = sell everything else! XD

I don't think I'm being fair to the Pro 900. I'm sure if I heard it before the D7000, I'd be a lot more impressed by it.

This is one of the VERY few closed headphones I have used, that also happen to isolate very well. I guess that is the sacrifice you make. the D7000 isn't what I'd call closed. 

I guess open headphones just really are that much more impressive (asides from bass).


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I did! I'm telling you... some velours on the D7000 = sell everything else! XD
> I don't think I'm being fair to the Pro 900. I'm sure if I heard it before the D7000, I'd be a lot more impressed by it.
> This is one of the VERY few closed headphones I have used, that also happen to isolate very well. I guess that is the sacrifice you make. the D7000 isn't what I'd call closed.
> I guess open headphones just really are that much more impressive (asides from bass).


 
  Maybe you just try and find an upholsterer or a tailor or something.


----------



## chicolom

Maybe something like this but less ugly....
   
   

   
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/denon-ah-d7000-headphones/reviews/3791


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

selling my pc360.


----------



## Dirksqjaw

I'd really like to see an honest assessment between the AD700's and Samsons SR 850. I have both and have used both for quite a bit of gaming and now the AD700's are collecting dust. I mostly play FPS (MW3), but for skyrim and other non-fps games, the Samsons seriously pull ahead of the AD700's.
   
  The thing is, I'm no audiophile so I'd really be interested in a more technical and analytical review from a FPS and gamer perspective, in relation to dolby headphone, between the two - if nothing else, just as a sense check to make sure my own brain isn't fooling me!
   
  So yeah, this is more or less, a request . Any takers?
   
  -Dirk


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dirksqjaw said:


> I'd really like to see an honest assessment between the AD700's and Samsons SR 850. I have both and have used both for quite a bit of gaming and now the AD700's are collecting dust. I mostly play FPS (MW3), but for Skyrim and other non-fps games, the Samsons seriously pull ahead of the AD700's.
> 
> The thing is, I'm no audiophile so I'd really be interested in a more technical and analytical review from a FPS and gamer perspective, in relation to Dolby Headphone, between the two - if nothing else, just as a sense check to make sure my own brain isn't fooling me!
> 
> ...


 
  I think you just gave an Honest Assessment.
  I own both headphone and never use the ATH-AD700s anymore.


----------



## thinkdude

After reading different reviews for a few hours I think my head is about to explode, so maybe someone can help.
   
  I am looking for a closed headphones for under 60.  don't game competitively so being "fun" is more important.  They will be used for PC gaming and I have a  xonar dg so they will be amped.  
   
  I live in room with noisy roommate so decent isolation is pretty important.  If there is something with less than perfect isolation but is much better than any closed options in that price range , I'm definitely flexible.
   
  thanks!


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE,
   
  go back to the DT990s.  It's where I will going now after having removed the desire to get the T90 (which is 600 Dollars here).
   
  Or take the very hard cure:
   
   
  The only Ultrasone that you will be keeping would be the Signature Pro. That beast would be the best alternative you could get but the price is unforgiving. And once you have it you'll be keeping the D7000 only for the soundstage, if at all.
   
  Anyway, MLE:
   
  Do you think the 600 Ohm Premium version of DT990 justifies the +100 dollars compred to the DT990 Pro? Soundstage, bass, impact etc..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





thinkdude said:


> After reading different reviews for a few hours I think my head is about to explode, so maybe someone can help.
> 
> I am looking for a closed headphones for under 60.  don't game competitively so being "fun" is more important.  They will be used for PC gaming and I have a  xonar dg so they will be amped.
> 
> ...


 
  used KRK KNS 8400 or used Sony MDR-V6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think the DT990 Pro and Premiums are that different at all. The Premiums however don't have that really strong midbass that the Pros do, which is the biggest reason I prefer the Premiums. The Pros were injecting midbass to things that didn't need it, and its presentation of bass hurt my ears. FWIR, it doesn't seem to be an issue with other owners of the 990 Pros, so YMMV.

I think I rather return the Pro 900 and just not get any headphone for now. I'm still undecided. The Pro 900 needs a lot more testing before I make that decision.


----------



## Evshrug

thinkdude said:


> After reading different reviews for a few hours I think my head is about to explode, so maybe someone can help.
> 
> I am looking for a closed headphones for under 60.  don't game competitively so being "fun" is more important.  They will be used for PC gaming and I have a  xonar dg so they will be amped.
> 
> ...




Besides PurpleAngel's suggestions (I have no head-time with those, but there is plenty of Head-Fi reading material on those), I also found the closed JVC HA-RX700 and HA-RX900 to have a surprisingly pleasing sound signature. If your roommate is so noisy (chatty & thumping music) that it pulls you away from concentrating on your headphones &/or gaming, nothing compares for isolation like IEMs. I have Etymotic ER-6i IEMs, and while they don't have much in the way of soundstage depth or the physical feeling of bass, they are EXTREMELY detail-revealing and directionally pin-point accurate. IEMs aren't for everyone, but it's like putting on a sound-proofed room.

Off Topic: That reminds me, I'll have to listen to Etymotic/EDGE Gaming's holographic sound demo on my AKGs when I get home, before I do my SC test.

Edit: Aw! Etymotic took down their gaming website with demos and whatnot. I was going to try and find for you, thinkdude, the comparative noise isolation of closed headphones vs IEMs. Sorry 



mad lust envy said:


> I don't think the DT990 Pro and Premiums are that different at all. The Premiums however don't have that really strong midbass that the Pros do, which is the biggest reason I prefer the Premiums. The Pros were injecting midbass to things that didn't need it, and its presentation of bass hurt my ears. FWIR, it doesn't seem to be an issue with other owners of the 990 Pros, so YMMV.
> I think I rather return the Pro 900 and just not get any headphone for now.



Good luck.
Seems to be hard for anyone to stay immune to upgradeitis if you continue visiting Head-Fi, where people talk about $200-$300 items being a bargain, and spending $1000 on a whim to get a new sound is just a small matter of selling part of their collection and saving up two paychecks. I'm not knocking the choices of people here, I'm just saying such an attitude has an effect on observers, who then rationalize that they too could squeeze out the high life from their budget. That's why I was absent for two years, until stupid Sennheiser HD202s (and boredom) of all things brought back the itch.


----------



## thinkdude

Thanks for suggestions so far-- have been reading posts from this forum all week and getting progressively more and more indecisive.
   
  Actually my latest cans were the JVC HA-RX700 which I liked a lot once they were burned in but recently got broken. I am not opposed to getting another pair, just thinking about trying to find something with slightly better isolation, and wanted to hear what kind of suggestions you audio genius's could come up with.  Also just wanted to say thx to Mad Lust Envy for making the definitive gaming headphone thread on the Internet as far as I can tell.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah it sure haven't seen a more comprehensive comparative reviews on headphones and optimal listening characteristics than Mad's.

I now think I remember the HA-RX series isn't completely sealed (semi-closed since it is mostly closed?), so PurpleAngel's suggestions and the cheaper options from Mad Lust Envy's guide (the Creative Aurvana Live! comes to mind for your price point) might provide a little better isolation. If you want to mute your roommate who is hollering at the sports on tv or "studying" with his girlfriend, IEMs can be a welcome relief. Mine got a LOT of use during college... helped me stay on task while studying or just wanting to rest.

This isn't what you were asking for, but I think this app I just found looks fascinating: http://www.etymotic.com/awareness/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL isn't great at keeping outside noise in, but it does fine enough keeping sound from leaking out. Seriously, the CAL is a fantastic headphone for those that want bass, the better closed headphone soundstage, and warm, pleasant tone. Think of them as the D7000's baby brother (which they are, as they are essentially the D1001, rebadged and improved slightly.)

I'm again enjoying the Pro 900 again. I really have to keep the D7000 away from my listening sessions.

Just for the hell of it, I did swap again, and now I'm missing the Pro 900's bass! Lol. So yes, the D7000 is better, but there are times when the Pro 900 is immediately more impressive. A quick switch, and the D7000 sounds bright and airy, with a lack of bass. Crazy how your ears need time to adjust. So today, I'm enjoying the Pro 900 more than the D7000. 

For aggressive D&B, and rock, the Pro 900 is awesome.

Also, I can wear them ALL day. As closed as they are, they cause infinitely less sweat than the D7000. It's crazy. The clamp could stand to be a little more loose, but it's not a big deal.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The CAL isn't great at keeping outside noise in, but it does fine enough keeping sound from leaking out. Seriously, the CAL is a fantastic headphone for those that want bass, the better closed headphone soundstage, and warm, pleasant tone. Think of them as the D7000's baby brother (which they are, as they are essentially the D1001, rebadged and improved slightly.)
> I'm again enjoying the Pro 900 again. I really have to keep the D7000 away from my listening sessions, so as to not make me miss their sound.




Good luck.

Unfortunately for me, my Yamaha receiver is displaying "Decoder off" and neither I nor customer service can figure this one out. Analogue inputs do work however. Insult to injury I can find the remote anywhere among my stuff, but it should work automatically anyway.

Update: interesting, I think it's the Xbox's fault. I noticed in Settings that it thinks the display is connected via DVI despite the connection being through HDMI. Anybody know how to change this behavior? I've been having display troubles since the last Xbox update.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, the trick is that for the day that I wanna use the Pro 900s, not to touch the D7000. if I know I'm gonna have a long session, the Pro 900 is what I'm gonna wear. For shorter sessions, the D7000 is king. Also, the Pro 900 is VERY good for gaming. The issues I have with the Pro 900 are pretty much non-existent when I'm gaming in Dolby headphone. The soundstage opens up a ton, and the spreading of sound makes the mids less recessed.

This is exactly why I need a lot of time with them, to see if the pros outweigh the cons, and they surely do. That bass especially, it'll be hard to replicate such awesomeness with some other cans. Also, the Pro 900 is very picky about the quality of audio. Seriously. It can be quite brutal to less than perfectly mastered audio.

Sorry to hear about your receiver. So you haven't been able to play with Silent Cinema at all?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Good luck.
> Unfortunately for me, my Yamaha receiver is displaying "Decoder off" and neither I nor customer service can figure this one out. Analogue inputs do work however. Insult to injury I can find the remote anywhere among my stuff, but it should work automatically anyway.
> Update: interesting, I think it's the Xbox's fault. I noticed in Settings that it thinks the display is connected via DVI despite the connection being through HDMI. Anybody know how to change this behavior? I've been having display troubles since the last Xbox update.


 
  The xBox update might have reset the xBox to default settings.
  Guess it's time to find that xBox manual and call out the dogs to sniff out that Yamaha remote.
  Should be able to download the xBox manual from the Internet.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, the trick is that for the day that I wanna use the Pro 900s, not to touch the D7000. if I know I'm gonna have a long session, the Pro 900 is what I'm gonna wear. For shorter sessions, the D7000 is king. Also, the Pro 900 is VERY good for gaming. The issues I have with the Pro 900 are pretty much non-existent when I'm gaming in Dolby headphone. The soundstage opens up a ton, and the spreading of sound makes the mids less recessed.
> This is exactly why I need a lot of time with them, to see if the pros outweigh the cons, and they surely do. That bass especially, it'll be hard to replicate such awesomeness with some other cans. Also, the Pro 900 is very picky about the quality of audio. Seriously. It can be quite brutal to less than perfectly mastered audio.
> Sorry to hear about your receiver. So you haven't been able to play with Silent Cinema at all?




I think I just figured it out! I turned on then off Display Discovery on the Xbox, and suddenly the console realized it isn't plugged in to a DVI cable. I have sound! The decoder info displays PCM, and I turned on the "Action Game" CinemaDSP because I remember reading you have to enable one of the DSP settings to get silent cinema. Seems to be adequately powering the Q701.

WOW IT'S DEFINITELY WORKING! I tried it in stereo when the Xbox was being Bleh, and now the directional AND distance cues are spot on! My last save happened to be in the arena training room, so conveniently I have an Orc hacking away and another guy shooting arrows. I can hear the sound _move_ porportunate to where I go... This is awesome! Too bad it took almost 2 and a half hours to set up and get working, lol, but the results seem worth it.

Do you have any specific questions while I'm listening to this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure, I'll have to try SC at some point in my life, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Not sure, I'll have to try SC at some point in my life, lol.




Lol I guess I ought to hear Dolby Headphone if I get the chance, but right now don't care.

I think the standard movie DSPs have less echo...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's all that matters. I'm willing to bet SC and DH are two sides of the same coin anyway. The Beyer Headzone (costing as much as it does), was very similar sounding to Dolby Headphone, just cleaner. Surround emulation was very close. Plus, you gain the added benefit of possibly being able to use SC with DTS (not sure of this), where the Mixamp does not. This gives me grief to no end, as I have a perfectly functional PS3 with many games that support DTS... not to mention most Blu-Rays only use DTS.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> That's all that matters. I'm willing to bet SC and DH are two sides of the same coin anyway. The Beyer Headzone (costing as much as it does), was very similar sounding to Dolby Headphone, just cleaner. Surround emulation was very close. Plus, you gain the added benefit of possibly being able to use SC with DTS (not sure of this), where the Mixamp does not. This gives me grief to no end, as I have a perfectly functional PS3 with many games that support DTS... not to mention most Blu-Rays only use DTS.




Well I was thinking I'd try to sell this Yamaha and get a Denon, well that's what I thought till I read about silent cinema. If you figure how much more versatile this receiver is than an Audioengine N22 and the nice way it's driving these difficult headphones, I think I got a really good deal. I'd comment on the amp improvement except all I can say is everything is amazingly crisp and hefty.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think only OLDER Denon receivers have Dolby Headphone. Not sure. I know Harman-Kardon has some too.

The Q701 sounds different on practically everything you hook it up to, so experiment away. XD


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol I guess I ought to hear Dolby Headphone if I get the chance, but right now don't care.
> I think the standard movie DSPs have less echo...


 
   
  You can listen to some Dolby Headphone Demos on youtube.  Not sure if there are silent cinema demos, I haven't really looked. 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> This gives me grief to no end, as I have a perfectly functional PS3 with many games that support DTS... not to mention most Blu-Rays only use DTS.


 
   
  Hopefully the next gen of consoles will support DTS or at least something a little less compressed than DD 5.1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't found a legit Dolby Headphone demo, other than the one I linked on the first post. The rest have been binaural or nothing. The russian vids were legit, but they weren't on youtube.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You can listen to some Dolby Headphone Demos on youtube.  Not sure if there are silent cinema demos, I haven't really looked.


 
  There is no software drivers, players or software codecs for Silent Cinema, it only exist on Yamaha hardware.
  (At least as far as I've been able to find).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I haven't found a legit Dolby Headphone demo, other than the one I linked on the first post. The rest have been binaural or nothing. The russian vids were legit, but they weren't on youtube.


 
   
  If I had a capture card, I could easily make some =\


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> If I had a capture card, I could easily make some =\




Ugh, I had one AND I did save a vid with Dolby Headphone, but it was a short test, and I deleted it. I should've played a few rounds with DH on.


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> There is no software drivers, players or software codecs for Silent Cinema, it only exist on Yamaha hardware.
> (At least as far as I've been able to find).




True it's a hardware based decoder, but like the other two said, if I could record the audio out from the headphone jack in sync with video, everything would already be decoded and rendered and should play back with the sound effect applied.

I bet Battlefield 3 would be jaw-droppingly good sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Battlefield 3 isn't good for positional cues, IMHO. It has really good audio, yes, but it's too chaotic for positional cues.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Battlefield 3 isn't good for positional cues, IMHO. It has really good audio, yes, but it's too chaotic for positional cues.


 
   
  And if it's anything like Battlefield: Bad Company 2, the Frostbite engine's sound mixing just sucks in terms of positioning. The sound effects themselves are pretty good, but I can't really tell where they're coming from all that effectively.
   
  I wish they'd bring back OpenAL like they used for Battlefield 2 and 2142, but I don't think that would help console gamers like yourself all that much.
   
  On the flip side, I'd probably just keep playing Battlefield 2 anyway given what they've done to the series, even if a friend of mine suggests that BF3's unlocks are nowhere near as broken as BF:BC2's M60 + Magnum Ammo in the early days.


----------



## calpis

My yamaha receiver is sitting in its box in the garage right now since I had switched over to a harman kardon over a year ago. The thing about the SC is that I couldn't really find a setting that I liked, it was either too much reverb and echo or too closed. I eventually had to get something new when I found out the receiver would flicker video on 1080p displays when I had upgraded to the slim xbox. The HK receiver only does DH2 which is my sweet spot so that's the main reason why I prefer DH over SC. My yamaha is a '09 or '10 model so it doesn't have all the dsp settings that newer or current models have.


----------



## Ztrains

What is everyones opinion on the Zalman mic?  I've heard ungodly praise, and people that say it's the worst thing ever.  The biggest thing is that most reviews say that you basically have to have the mic right next to your mouth to produce noise.  I plan on using it 75% on xbox, 25% on PC.  Also, if I could find the wireless mixamp, would it be better than the regular mixamp?  Also, are the AD700's only good for shooters, because I play basically every genre except for sports games.  This whole headset/headphones thing is slowly driving me insane.  I was going to buy the turtle beach xp300's until I read that headsets are sub-par to headphones, but with headphones you need the mixamp not to mention a mic, and a cord to be able to use the mic....
   
  All in all, I want as little wires as possible and either AD700's,Samson SR850's, or Sond MDR-v6.  And I have read about the ModMic but I will hold out until the V2 for that.
   
  Sorry for that wall of text, I just want to make sure I am getting the best bang for my buck.  I have ~$300, but would prefer to not spend over $250.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Zalman sucks. Just don't. Wait for the Antlion V2, and get the Dealextreme clip on mic in the meantime for like less than $3, though shipping takes a month. Dunno when the Antlion is released. I myself have no need for it because the DX clip on is perfect.

Yes, the AD700s aren't really anything special outside of competitive FPS gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ztrains said:


> What is everyones opinion on the Zalman mic?  I've heard ungodly praise, and people that say it's the worst thing ever.  The biggest thing is that most reviews say that you basically have to have the mic right next to your mouth to produce noise.  I plan on using it 75% on xbox, 25% on PC.  Also, if I could find the wireless mixamp, would it be better than the regular mixamp?  Also, are the AD700's only good for shooters, because I play basically every genre except for sports games.  This whole headset/headphones thing is slowly driving me insane.  I was going to buy the turtle beach xp300's until I read that headsets are sub-par to headphones, but with headphones you need the mixamp not to mention a mic, and a cord to be able to use the mic....
> 
> All in all, I want as little wires as possible and either AD700's,Samson SR850's, or Sond MDR-v6.  And I have read about the ModMic but I will hold out until the V2 for that.
> 
> ...


 
   
_"The biggest thing is that most reviews say that you basically have to have the mic right next to your mouth to produce noise."_
  This ^ When you _have _to have a clip-on mic right next to your mouth, it defeats the purpose of a clip-on mic.
   
  The wireless mixamp isn't better than the regular mixamp.  The main difference is the wireless mixamp has bass boost, while the regular doesn't.  If anything though, the regular mixamp is probably a little more powerful and has a lower noise floor.
   
  Yes, AD700 is mainly good for competitive shooters.  It's too thin sounding for everything else. 
   
  I would get the ModMic V2, whichever mixamp you can get, and some phones.  SR850 is probably better than AD700 for most types of games.  Next step up is the Sennheiser HD5xx.  Than you get into the Beyers and AKGs, but those costs $250 for the headphones alone.


----------



## Ztrains

Thanks guys, which dealextreme mic are you referring to?  I found http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-3-5mm-jack-180cm-cable-42965 and also http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, as much as I'm trying to justify the Pro 900, I think it's best I return them. I'm gonna go ahead and use next week get the Pro 900 reviewed for this guide, but other than that, they just aren't good enough. I'd honestly be happier with some DT990s again, though I'm not going to get anything for now.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think only OLDER Denon receivers have Dolby Headphone. Not sure. I know Harman-Kardon has some too.
> The Q701 sounds different on practically everything you hook it up to, so experiment away. XD


 
   
  Daw, this makes me sad then. I didn't realize Denon had that before. My AVR-2309 is pouting.


----------



## Evshrug

ztrains said:


> What is everyones opinion on the Zalman mic?  I've heard ungodly praise, and people that say it's the worst thing ever.  The biggest thing is that most reviews say that you basically have to have the mic right next to your mouth to produce noise.
> 
> All in all, I want as little wires as possible and either AD700's,Samson SR850's, or Sond MDR-v6.  And I have read about the ModMic but I will hold out until the V2 for that.
> 
> ...




Not really a wall of text, or at least I don't think I have any room to complain, LOL!

The people that loved the Zalman seem to mostly be PC users who boost the mic signal. For Xboxing, I think Mad Lust Envy's suggestion is hard to beat.

The Mixamps don't really reduce the number of wires, it's more like a hub for all your wires besides Xbox power and video. The Mixamp 5.8 "wireless" model still has the same number of wires, it's just you aren't tethered to your Xbox anymore. I wouldn't mind sacrificing Kinect dancing with headphones and the 15 seconds to put away my headphone setup in exchange for buying the only readily available separately Mixamp (the Pro model).

Personally, I loved my AD700 and used it more for music than gaming, and haven't heard the Sony or Samson models, so your mileage may vary. Since new FOM choices have taken that status from the AD700, it seems like people forget that it works very well for music that's not requiring heavy bass, for the price. I also found it very comfortable once I adjusted the headband and the earpads broke in a bit.

Since you can't hook up HDMI to the Mixamp, I assume you have or would need the included AV cables or audio dongle. If you don't want to spend all your money in one go, you can get cheap RCA to headphone adapters at RadioShack or similar and a cheap portable amp like the FiiO E6 (for volume control here), and upgrade to Mixamp when you feel ready. Sometimes bite-sized financial steps are nice. The Mixamp is a versatile piece of equipment, and a good buy if you need it and have the $.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> And if it's anything like Battlefield: Bad Company 2, the Frostbite engine's sound mixing just sucks in terms of positioning. The sound effects themselves are pretty good, but I can't really tell where they're coming from all that effectively.
> 
> I wish they'd bring back OpenAL like they used for Battlefield 2 and 2142, but I don't think that would help console gamers like yourself all that much.
> 
> On the flip side, I'd probably just keep playing Battlefield 2 anyway given what they've done to the series, even if a friend of mine suggests that BF3's unlocks are nowhere near as broken as BF:BC2's M60 + Magnum Ammo in the early days.




Well, battlefield 3 uses the frostbite 2 engine. I can't comment on positional accuracy at the moment, but I would say the only gun combo that consistently gives me a bad day is the Saiga and other automatic shotguns. It seems pretty balanced, I mean even an M9 can do decently as a fallback. I also think the audio Doesn't get more chaotic than MW3 when the airspace gets filled up with killstreak rewards.

What do you play these days?​


ztrains said:


> Thanks guys, which dealextreme mic are you referring to?  I found http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-3-5mm-jack-180cm-cable-42965 and also http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080




The second one, I think. The URL ending in 7080 was quoted earlier in this thread.

Mad, maybe you could put your mic for Xbox recommendation as part of your gaming guide?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll do that soonish, probably once I do the Pro 900.


----------



## Phos

For the price of a 990 you could probably just have an upholsterer or tailor just make velour or microfiber pads for the D7000.  I imagine memory foam would be the most similar sonically to the pleather.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

phos said:


> For the price of a 990 you could probably just have an upholsterer or tailor just make velour or microfiber pads for the D7000.  I imagine memory foam would be the most similar sonically to the pleather.




I'd ask them to just put a layer of velour on top of my pleather pads, just where the pads touch my skin, and stitch it on. That should keep the sound from changing.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wait for the Antlion V2


 
  Where did you get this info from?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It was posted a few pages back. The antlion modmic is getting a revision with a mute switch, stronger cable, and whatnot.

edit: So I've been A/Bing the Pro 900 with the E9 and NFB5. The E9 shouldn't be technically perfect for the Pro 900 due to the high output impedance, while the NFB5 has a low output impedance which should be technically better. So I've been going back and forth, and the amps sound practically identical with the Pro 900. If there is a different, it's so minute, it'd be practically impossible to tell them apart. I couldn't be able to pinpoint the differences at all.

The Pro 900 is technically easy to drive, but even so, it proves to me that the E9 doesn't do anything wonky to low impedance cans, from what I've personally heard with all the cans I've tested.

Of course, the NFB5 has a LOT more power than the E9, which does benefit cans like the Q701 compared to the E9, but on an even level with easy to drive cans, it shows me that these SS amps just sound too close to really make me think that one amp is vastly superior to another.


----------



## calpis

You know, I've been thinking how I'd reduce the amount of wires if I were to ever get a mixamp. My oldest idea was to hack up one of the older style wireless xbox mics with an audio jack and putting it inside a tin with a larger battery and a mini usb port for charging. Recently though I remembered that madcatz actually makes a bluetooth adapter for the xbox controller to be used with their px5 headsets. This led me to thinking that I could get a bluetooth music streaming thingy on amazon and hook that up to the mixamp and pair it with the madcatz adapter. Theoretically this should work and you won't feel like being tied down to the mixamp.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The antlion modmic is getting a revision with a mute switch, stronger cable, and whatnot.


 
  Will we who just got the mic be able to up grade?  Anything said about that?


----------



## SpaceCake

mad lust envy said:


> The Zalman sucks. Just don't. Wait for the Antlion V2, and get the Dealextreme clip on mic in the meantime for like less than $3, though shipping takes a month. Dunno when the Antlion is released. I myself have no need for it because the DX clip on is perfect.
> Yes, the AD700s aren't really anything special outside of competitive FPS gaming.



Just received my zalman mic couple of days ago nothing to complain about, tested it on the ps3 and the pc. Sounds good on the ps3 and pc and my friends didn't complain about bad voice chat whatsoever.


----------



## Rebel975

Quality control on the Zalman mic is all over the place. The one I had was unusably bad. It had to be right next to my mouth, yet was also picking up background sounds. It was almost as if it was filtering my voice out.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Will we who just got the mic be able to up grade?  Anything said about that?


 
   
  While this would make me immensely happy, I'm not holding my breath for something like an exchange to happen. From a business standpoint, they had to change their production guidelines, order a whole lot more product usually out of pocket up front to get the first batches run, and they wanna make money. So yeah, I'd love to have them upgrade the ones they've sold recently. But I will be surprised if they do. I believe the announcement was made on twitter so it could be worth asking on there, or maybe emailing/calling their customer service.
   
  If you bought it very recently, there's the option of returning the one you just got and waiting a bit longer. When the V2 comes out, I know I'll be buying it the day it's available. Tired of muting by keyboard shortcuts/unplugging the cable on the mixamp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, battlefield 3 uses the frostbite 2 engine. I can't comment on positional accuracy at the moment, but I would say the only gun combo that consistently gives me a bad day is the Saiga and other automatic shotguns. It seems pretty balanced, I mean even an M9 can do decently as a fallback. I also think the audio Doesn't get more chaotic than MW3 when the airspace gets filled up with killstreak rewards.
> What do you play these days?


 
   
  These days, for multiplayer FPSs, I usually fire up Unreal Tournament 1999/2004, Battlefield 1942/Vietnam/2, or Killing Floor. Starting to get into Red Orchestra 1 again, now that I have the standalone Steam release and not just the UT 2004 mod version.
   
  I'd also be down for ArmA II if I could get a good co-op group together.


----------



## Fegefeuer

My DT990 Premium 600 arrived and I can attest (I don't think anyone doubted) that these cans are outstanding for gaming with a huge soundstage, excellent positioning, great lower bass and impact. The treble isn't a problem in gaming. The DT990 pro had actually a lesser soundstage and the bass isn't as precise.
   
  I tested these cans on my Titanium HD so far with CMSS-3D on in Battlefield 3. THD -> Asus E1 DAC -> Violectric V200. I will test more games later and I will be testing with Dolby Headphone over my Xonar STX as well (yes, I have two soundcards ).


----------



## Bachnaify

Are Ultrasone PRO 650 better than Beyerdynamic DT 770 250 ohm ? (I mean ONLY in games)
   
  Which isolate better ? Which are more comfortable ?


----------



## Ztrains

Thanks to everyone here for being helpful.
   
  I have decided on getting the Samson SR850, along with the Dealextreme mic (just want to confirm is it this one: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080) and when the Antlion ModMic V2 comes out I will get that instead.  Now all I have left to do is get the mixamp.  I will try to hold out and get the wireless one because I sit on the opposite wall from where my tv is and don't want cords all across my room.  On the wireless mixamp, does it still come with the splitter to use my own Headphones/Mic?  I just want to make sure.
   
  Also if I am forgetting anything let me know please 
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

Ztrains,
I think you've got everything, and the Mixamp 5.8 has all needed adapters besides PS3 chat via USB. The only thing is, if you're not getting the Mixamp right away, you're gonna need:
an adapter for your mic like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001078FV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A24DV7X9AF5F1B
And an RCA to Headphone adapter if you don't already have one.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> When the V2 comes out, I know I'll be buying it the day it's available. Tired of muting by keyboard shortcuts/unplugging the cable on the mixamp.


 
   
  For people who play on Xbox, they can always use one of these to mute any mic:
   
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/talkbackxboxlivecablepuckbkoptional.aspx
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx1talkbackcable-2.aspx


----------



## SpaceCake

For those who can't wait on V2 and/or V2 w/ mute the site is now up and running again: http://antlion-audio.myshopify.com/


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> For people who play on Xbox, they can always use one of these to mute any mic:
> 
> *http://store.turtlebeach.com/talkbackxboxlivecablepuckbkoptional.aspx*
> http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx1talkbackcable-2.aspx


 
   
   
  Sure beats my clunky/huge XLR muting system. I'll probably get one of these.


----------



## Jay 23

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ztrains,
> I think you've got everything, and the Mixamp 5.8 has all needed adapters besides PS3 chat via USB. The only thing is, if you're not getting the Mixamp right away, you're gonna need:
> an adapter for your mic like this one:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001078FV8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A24DV7X9AF5F1B
> And an RCA to Headphone adapter if you don't already have one.


 
  how good is that adapter? it seems like most of the reviews are negative


----------



## Evshrug

jay 23 said:


> how good is that adapter? it seems like most of the reviews are negative



Well it's a dollar product from Hong Kong. No guarantee you will get one in working order, but the reviews are about even between 5 star and 1 star. Factor in how people with bad experiences are more likely to post, and how many of those reviews are from people who didn't realize they were getting a product incomparable with an iPhone or whatever, and I think your chances are pretty good. Especially low risk cuz you'd only be out a dollar.

Also, all the cable adapters have really skewed ratings, but this one is the #3 most bought headphone adapter on Amazon. You might find one at RadioShack too.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> My DT990 Premium 600 arrived and I can attest (I don't think anyone doubted) that these cans are outstanding for gaming with a huge soundstage, excellent positioning, great lower bass and impact. The treble isn't a problem in gaming. The DT990 pro had actually a lesser soundstage and the bass isn't as precise.
> 
> I tested these cans on my Titanium HD so far with CMSS-3D on in Battlefield 3. THD -> Asus E1 DAC -> Violectric V200. I will test more games later and I will be testing with Dolby Headphone over my Xonar STX as well (yes, I have two soundcards ).


 
  want


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Update on my next post...


----------



## Bachnaify

Great job man ! Could You tell me which version of PRO 900 did you test ?
   
  I found two versions:
   
Ultrasone PRO 900 - which costs circa $ 491
Ultrasone PRO 900 - Balanced - which costs circa $ 690


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here's the official and final (unless I made some glaring mistakes) Pro 900 impressions! It's been added to the first post as well.



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> *Pro 900*
> ...









Bachnaify, I have the non-balanced Pro 900. I'm not audiophiolic enough to go balanced, nor will I ever.


----------



## Bachnaify

Thanks. Do You wanna test some other headphones in games or is it over ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you mean? If I'll ever test other headphones? Lol, 



Also, the Pro 900 in America can be found for $320-$350. I bought mine for $335 (Amazon).

I think if I get someone to trade me temporarily, the next headphone I want to test is the newer, revised HE400 with swapped velour pads.


----------



## Bachnaify

I mean something like Ultrasone PRO 650 or Beyerdynamic DT 770 250 ohm or Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X
  or Sennheiser HE90 - joke 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
HiFiMan HE400 - this should be intresting


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bachnaify said:


> I mean something like Ultrasone PRO 650 or Beyerdynamic DT 770 250 ohm or Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X




No, not interested in those. Most of my tests and listings come from headphones I was looking forward to. I'm not one to look back. There are a few 'lower tier' cans (from what I own now) I'd wanna try out if I had the chance, but don't specifically want them. The D2000, to name one. I'd also wanna try some Grados at some point, just because, though not for gaming. I hear they have a terribly small soundstage which wouldn't translate well for gaming.

I also, really want some white M50s, though... I literally wouldn't have a need for them. Maybe for 'portable' use, in front of others. They'd be my show off cans. 

Hmm, I really want the ODA+ODAC. I think the very neutral signature would make the Pro 900 exactly how I'd want it to sound for music. I'd settle for the ODA alone though, as I'm happy with the NFB5's DAC.


----------



## Bachnaify

OK, I'm waiting for updates but maybe I decide earlier.


----------



## Fegefeuer

OK, I tested a lot of other games and the recommendation stays. If you are an immersive type of player that wants to dive into a game's world and totally enjoy its atmosphere, the strangeness, the bizarre, the frightening, the fantastic, the DT990 is very great and to me better than the K701/Q701. Since I don't have the AH-D7000 I can't recommend anything else for now but other headphones are less recommendable imo (those I tested: PC360, HD 598, HD 650, AH-D2000, Pro 2900, HFI 2400, K701, Q701) - the DT990 600 is that good for gaming.
   
  I changed my mind and will order the Beyerdynamic T90 (it wasn't available for weeks and I canceled back then) and compare with the DT990 600.
   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
  Medieval Total War 2 with EAX HD and CMSS-3D + the DT990 - really epic with thunderous cavalry charges, generals screaming orders, soldiers dying, steel on steel, explosions from trebuchets, thousands of arrows flying through the air, the screech of orcs and the howling of wolves. The burning the city, loud noise as the gates and walls come crushing down and the enemy charges in with havoc.
   
  Check this video
   
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X51fFTOwKr0&hd=1


----------



## Bachnaify

Does PRO 900 need amplifier to work correctly with portable player ?
   
  I'm not sure, cause impedance is only 40 ohm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is relatively easy to drive. However, it's two extremes, the bass and treble will most likely lose quality and control, making the bass boomier, and the treble harsher.

Forgot to mention on the review that the Pro 900 is pretty bright. Not too bright (less than the Pro 2900). but not a smooth sounding headphone. It's aggressive.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What do you mean? If I'll ever test other headphones? Lol,


 
   
  Does that mean you'll evaluate some electrostatic setups eventually? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (No, not just the Stax flagships or Sennheiser Orpheus. More reasonably-priced stuff like the Stax Lambdas and the Koss ESP/950.)
   
  I get a feeling that you might like the Koss ESP/950 in particular, at least going by other people's impressions on its sound signature.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I also want to add that if you were on the fence between the Pro 900 vs the Pro 2900, I personally recommend the Pro 900. *The Pro 2900 doesn't have an airy sound, losing the main reason why I believe anyone would go for an open headphone*. The mids and treble are similar, making the only real differing aspect being the bass. Considering that the Pro 900 is a ton of fun without sounding messy, it will impress you more than the Pro 2900. The Pro 2900 is more balanced overall, but even calling it balanced is a far stretch, due to mid recession, and more metallic treble. The Pro 900 may also have similar recessed mids, but that trades off for more bass, whereas the Pro 2900 doesn't really give you anything in return for those recessed mids


 
   
  So the Pro 2900 has the weaknesses of an open headphone (lighter bass...), but without the strengths (soundstage size and air) ? 
   
Whilst being more expensive...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty much. That is why I was quite dissapointed with it especially at their price. The soundstage may be just a tad bit bigger than the Pro 900, but its not a major difference. The Pro 2900 has good, bass quantity, sort of like the Q701, but the mids are just pushed back by some unknown reason. I'm pretty sure its S-Logic's fault.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its hard to pinpoint, but the Ultrasone's presentation of sound is a little different. I guess they tried to make it seem like the sound is coming from a bigger room, but it moved the detail further back. I'm just assuming though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can't blame S-Logic for recessed mids. Signature Pro alone is the best proof.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then it must be the treble being so prominent.


----------



## NamelessPFG

How do they respond to EQ, then?
   
  A little EQ can go a long way toward making a headphone sound just right for your tastes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't EQ, so I wouldn't know.


----------



## Evshrug

Got to try a pair of Sony XB500 at a graduation party today. It was pretty LOL. The pads were comfy and the bass was strong, but I think my $75 Crossfade LPs that I bought by accident were just as bassy without entirely losing most of the rest of the freq spectrum, less sweaty, and easier to live with. It's comparisons like that which make me consider keeping it for "special situations," but overall I feel similarly about the LP as you (Mad) feel about the Ultrasone 900.

I need to finish writing my Q701 review.


----------



## Hailin

So I couldn't wait for the AKG K550 to come back in stock since they were on back order. So I place two orders for the same price.  A pair of CAL!s for when I need that bass kick, my mother is coming up in August so I was able to get her to bring them and some HM5s from MPnation. So I will be trying both with the mixamp and my E9/E17 setup. I sort of got both sides of the coin here I hope.


----------



## dentnu

Hi everyone I read Mad Lust's review and I am having a hard time deciding which headphones would be the best for me.I was thinking on the Q701 but I just found out the they are open and not closed. I need a pair that are closed as where I will be gaming there is most of the time allot of background noise. I was looking to spend no more than $300 and while I will be mostly using them for PC gaming I would also like them to be good for hearing music also. I currently do not have any top of the line sound card or mix amp would I also need to get one to be able to get the best sound out of the headphones ? I am fairly new to all this so it would be great if someone could help me out.
   
  Thanks 
   
  P.S. Thanks Mad Lust for your reviews it really is the best place for gaming headphones reviews


----------



## Hailin

I am not suggesting just pointing in a direction to start reading, 
   
  DT770pro 80ohm
  AKG K550
  CAL!
   
  Even more closed sounding not necessarily more isolating.
   
  KNK8400
  Koss DJ100 with M50 pads
  Tockdweller (Sorry for the spelling) has had some success with dolby headphone with these cans.
   
  I would say the Fischer Audio FA-03/Yoga/Lindy/Digitech/Jaycar variant but until I have heard mine I am not even thinking of recommending it I still can't find any info of anyone trying it with dolby or cmss.


----------



## Bachnaify

Ultrasone Pro 900 isolates well :
   
  ,,Isolation: I know I haven't done this with any other headphone, but that's usually because I prefer open headphones, which don't isolate well at all. Because the Pro 900 IS closed, I feel it necessary to mention how well it does. *I feel that it keeps outside noises out well enough* (certainly leaps and bounds better than the D7000), and does incredibly well keeping sound from leaking out, even with it's velour pads."


----------



## ZzBOG

Hey guys, what would be a better choice for virtual surround + headphones for gaming?
   
  1) Get a JVC / asto mixamp 
   
  2) Get a 7.1 receiver from 2005 with some dolby virtual surround/ virtualization feature?
   
   
  How do 7.1 HT receivers usually perform for headphones?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





zzbog said:


> Hey guys, what would be a better choice for virtual surround + headphones for gaming?
> 
> 1) Get a JVC / asto mixamp
> 
> ...


 

 1) Mixamp, I believe the JVC is very difficult to find.
   
  2) Hmm gives you a ton more options down the road and you could use it with a PC, PS3, Xbox, TV without having to play the swap the optical game. Not sure of the sound quality of amps though.


----------



## Rebel975

I guess it comes down to whether or not you plan on using voice chat. If not, I'd probably get the receiver for the variety of things it can do, as Hailin noted. If yes, I'd definitely get the Mixamp.


----------



## ZzBOG

well, the thing that inspired me to peek into this rabbit hole is PS3 purchase and being unable to communicate with Battlefield3 squad members..


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





zzbog said:


> well, the thing that inspired me to peek into this rabbit hole is PS3 purchase and being unable to communicate with Battlefield3 squad members..


 

 A mixamp is probably the easiest way then. You can go the DSS route but it can get complicated with buying an extra adapter. But you may start like I did with  an A40 setup. Next thing you know you have tons of money in multiple sets of headphones and headphone amps chained your mixamp, and wires all over the place.
   
  What makes it all worth it is "Hey there is an group of enemies behind us." Sure enough a min or two later a group of whatever will walk over that hill or through that door and your friends reply with how did you know? Happened again just this weekend in Iron Brigade. In Left for Dead 2 I was put on scout duty, same with Dead Island. That game leaves you a tad scatter brained though because you can hear zombies from every which way. Awesome and terrifying.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hailin said:


> 1) Mixamp, I believe the JVC is very difficult to find.
> 
> 2) Hmm gives you a ton more options down the road and you could use it with a PC, PS3, Xbox, TV without having to play the swap the optical game. Not sure of the sound quality of amps though.


 
   
  That's quite the understatement. The Victor-branded version with the AC adapter input is even more difficult to find; as luck would have it, I checked eBay at the right time and won an auction for it. There's more hiss in the analog output than I'd like, but it does work nicely for my Xbox and GCN/Wii games, and I don't need chat mixing for those.
   
  The "receiver with Dolby Headphone/Silent Cinema" approach is probably much better off from a sound quality standpoint, along with being more versatile in terms of what it can power cleanly and digital codec support (DTS especially). I just didn't go that route because A/V receivers are bulky, heavy devices, and I'd have little use for the speaker amp portion besides powering electrostatic energizer/transformer boxes as the poor man's route to a 'stat amp.


----------



## Evshrug

Before I start I wanna say how refreshing it is to come back to a thread after a weekend of fun and only have 9 unread posts. The M-100 thread is outta control!


zzbog said:


> Hey guys, what would be a better choice for virtual surround + headphones for gaming?
> 
> 1) Get a JVC / asto mixamp
> 
> ...




Well, not only is the JVC Dolby Headphone processor harder to find, from what I read it has more hiss than an Astro Mixamp Pro anyway. Does the JVC even have a built in amp?

Anyway, my reason for commenting is I've been using my AD700 and Q701 headphones with my Yamaha receiver over the past week, to good effect. I'm trying to figure out how to objectively describe how Yamaha's "Silent Cinema" headphone surround sounds, but the short version is, subjectively, I think it sounds very good.

You can hear a definite directionality all around you: not merely "Oh, relative to the Orc chopping in front of me, the archer must be behind me," the experience is more like you can tell where the archer is aiming by the flight of the arrow, and occlusion gets interesting when you walk into a room out of sight of the Orc. So it's not a cheap trick, there is some real science there that can show off however good (or bad) the audio from your game is. Stereo music sounds best in stereo mode, I mean how often are you surrounded by instruments when you go to a music performance, but I'm curious to try the 5.1 re-recording of Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots album.

Overall, I'm not sure if I'd recommend receiver over Mixamp. I happened to have my Yamaha (not sure if other mfr receivers have 5.1 to headphone decoding) already for speakers and hooking up various sources to my TV, so I use that and find it very versatile, but the Mixamp collects the chat mic & audio and let's you mix it with the headphone audio, tuning the volume balance on the fly. I don't have a head_set_ with integrated mic, so even with the Mixamp I'd have to figure out how to mic myself and thus it's not worth buying alongside the receiver. I can't speak for the Mixamp, but with my receiver I don't feel like I need to add an extra amp in-line, even with my "hard to drive" Q701s. Remember, some people spend over $200 on an amp alone, and I'd like to compare and contrast an audiophile amp some day, but for me I would have to have enough money where I didn't care much about the cost of things. My Yamaha is a 2010 entry-level model I got for $200 from an out-of-business sale.

I guess the Mixamp is strongest when you have a headset, but the Receiver is king if you want to use multiple sources and speakers alongside your game console and headphones. Does that help?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my D7000s are up for sale (check my sig). I'm 50/50 atm moment. If I sell them, good. If I don't, then I'm okay with that as well. I'm just done with pleather/leather forever, if/when these are gone.

More than likely going to try some HE400s (buying the velours for it), or go back to the DT990...for the 3rd time (4th if you count the DT990 pros).

I'd get the HE-4, but with how stupid hard it is to drive, it'd only be relegated to the main setup, never for gaming...


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So my D7000s are up for sale (check my sig). I'm 50/50 atm moment. If I sell them, good. If I don't, then I'm okay with that as well. I'm just done with pleather/leather forever, if/when these are gone.
> More than likely going to try some HE400s (buying the velours for it), or go back to the DT990...for the 3rd time (4th if you count the DT990 pros).
> I'd get the HE-4, but with how stupid hard it is to drive, it'd only be relegated to the main setup, never for gaming...


 
  Dang... your getting rid of your highest recommended fun and all-around headphone that you've raved about. How does the pleather/leather ruin this pair for you?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Dang... your getting rid of your highest recommended fun and all-around headphone that you've raved about. How does the pleather/leather ruin this pair for you?


 
   
  My guess is the heat.


----------



## dentnu

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I am not suggesting just pointing in a direction to start reading,
> 
> DT770pro 80ohm
> AKG K550
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks for the reply. I have been reading and saw in another post someone recommend the Sennheiser HD 380 Pro . Would be great if some of you could shed some light as if these would be a good pair to buy for gaming and music ?
   
Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's right. The heat. I mean, its not a D7000 problem. I have that problem with every single pleather padded headphone. EVERY single one.

With velour padded cans, even closed ones, I can wear them all day and not sweat at all.

Trust me, selling them is like losing a part of my soul. I have zero replacements for that amazing sound. The Pro 900 surely isn't a replacement.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So my D7000s are up for sale (check my sig).


 
   






  I thought you were "never" EVER going to sell them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Your not going try and modify the pads somehow?  I think that's what I would do, before I sold them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't want to sell them, but that's money I can use, for something I would use. My D7000 rarely gets touched. 

Pleather is that unnecessary evil to me. The time and money spent trying to find a velour alternative that won't mess with SQ would probably be a lot more than anyone would deem logical. Hell, there are people still trying to find a velour pads for the M50s that doesn't negatively impact sound, and the M50 has a size where pads are easily swapped. 

Don't have faith in some freak occurrence where the first velour pad/mod for the D7000 would be perfect. I'm not going to mess with the pads. No one really has yet, and going to velour would undoubtedly change the SQ, which is something I would never want on the D7000.

I don't trust pad rolling. I've seen first hand how much pads can alter SQ.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't buy pleather either, it was the first thing I changed about my HE-500. I hate pleater and all that heat.
   
  Ordered Beyerdynamic T90 a few hours ago. Says 3-4 weeks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought the HE500 came with velours? Lol.

I'm pretty much set on the HE400, yet, I'm going off the basis that changing those pleathers to Hifiman velours won't change the SQ enough. I really wish I could test it out beforehand.

I was interested in the T90, but what I hear of the bass, it's turned me off completely.


----------



## Fegefeuer

My HE-500 came with pleather on and a velour set, I changed instantly. Sound changes definitely. I like velour better.
   
  HE-400 should act the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet. That's what I'll do then.

But what are the sonic differences?

I'm afraid that the HE400 will be too dark for me, and not bassy enough. If it has more bass than the HE4, then good.. but not less.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Pleather makes a darker sound, bass is more prominent (for me actually a bit too much). It's very noticable. Changing to velour leads to arier sound, smooth very detailed highs (my english lacks good words, HE-500 highs are excellent) and the bass is perfect. The HE-400 is darker than the HE-500.
   
  To be honest, I don't see why someone would pick the HE-400 over the 500. If it's a financial thing, ok, but if not: the HE-500 is better in everything, in fact it's the best bargain I can think of and I listened to the LCD-2 and HE-6 a lot as well. They are not worth +400€. Never.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How's the bass on the HE500s vs the HE400. Which one has more bass presence?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I like the HE-500 more. It's more refined and precise to me and thanks to planar it's extremely fast. You can listen to Metal or Hardcore, anything. However voices kill the HE-400, the HE-500 is a goddess. It's hard not to hype and not to use pathetic descriptions like this one.  The only thing the LCD-2 made better for me was the bass (the best I heard) but it has noticably less soundstage and I don't like that at all.
   
  What's the price difference between HE-400 and HE-500 over there (or for you?).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

$300. I want whatever has more bass, as I'm sure the HE400's vocals will be fine. I'm not a vocalhead. I'm more of a bass and treblehead, though I can sacrifice just a smidge bit of treble. However, for these kind of cans, I do not want a big loss of bass. Which has more bass?

I'm honestly not interested in the HE500s anyways. Not unless they were in the $500 range.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HE-400 has more boom in the bass or let's say more presence but HE-500 goes lower. Soundstage is smaller than HE-500 and it lacks its highs and mids (still great though). In terms of bass you will like them for sure, not sure about the treble but you've decided pretty much anyway. Looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'll probably be getting the HE400s very soon. The velours are only from the Hifiman website right?


----------



## dentnu

Hi everyone  well I just couldn't wait anymore I went and bought the Sennheiser HD 380 Pro. I am highly impressed with them so far only been using them for a few hours but they sound great so far. I only have one problem I think I am not pushing them to there full potential. I have them connected to my PC's stock sound card and set full volume and they don't sound that loud. They sounded allot louder at the store and a bit better so I would like to know what sound card or device would I need to buy to get the full potential out of them ?
   
Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HE400 ordered from Head-Direct through Amazon, and ordered the velours directly from head-direct.

No turning back now... h34r:

Depending on how well they do... I might return the Pro 900s, if I feel like the HE400 satisfies my every need. Not that I think they will.


----------



## Eric_C

dentnu: You want an amp. Cheapest, cleanest one I can think of is Fiio E6--about $20 from Amazon. It's good (used to own one), but I don't know how powerful it is for big headphones like the 380.
   
  There are more powerful amps, but they may alter the sound, which you may not like.
  The next step up is probably Objective 2 (aka O2)--you can DIY for <$100 with parts from JDS Labs, or buy it assembled at $144 from them.


----------



## dentnu

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> dentnu: You want an amp. Cheapest, cleanest one I can think of is Fiio E6--about $20 from Amazon. It's good (used to own one), but I don't know how powerful it is for big headphones like the 380.
> 
> There are more powerful amps, but they may alter the sound, which you may not like.
> The next step up is probably Objective 2 (aka O2)--you can DIY for <$100 with parts from JDS Labs, or buy it assembled at $144 from them


 
   
  Thanks Eric_C  for the reply. How can I find out if the Fiio E6 will be powerful enough for my 380 HD it would be great if someone knows if they can please can shed some light on this. Now the 02 looks like a winner so if the Fiio E6 is not powerful enough I will get them. I was also looking at the Mixamp Pro will that also work and is it better than the 02 and the Fiio E6 ? I really want to get the full potential out of my new 380 HD Pro so it would be great if someone can please let me know which one of those would give me the best sound.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The O2 should be a ginormous leap over the E6, and it'd be what I'd get in your position. Oh yes, you don't seem to have a good dac or soundcard, so perhaps invest in one too. Depends on what you can afford. If I didn't have anything, I'd go for the ODAC and O2. For cheap, the Fiio D3 is a solid dac for less than $30. It's optical input only though. The USB is for power only.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Definitely agree with MLE here.
   
  What you should get is the O2--based on a *lot* of consistent praise from many many people, it is the best amp you can get for that price. 
  Worry about the rest later--there's a bunch of technical details to discuss before you go off buying a MixAmp or sound card, please don't rush into it.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The O2 should be a ginormous leap over the E6, and it'd be what I'd get in your position. Oh yes, you don't seem to have a good dac or soundcard, so perhaps invest in one too. Depends on what you can afford. If I didn't have anything, I'd go for the ODAC and O2. For cheap, the Fiio D3 is a solid dac for less than $30. It's optical input only though. The USB is for power only.




Doesn't the Mixamp have a DAC section (digital to analogue converter, basically what your sound card does) that activates when you connect with an Optical cable and PCM signal?

Well anyway, E6 should be loud enough, but the extra muscle of a more powerful amp like the O2 presents audio more gracefully on larger headphones. Dentu, you may not feel like you're missing anything with the E6 vs O2, unless you try them side-by side or you've amassed experience detecting what effect different amps can have.

It's like a good enough amp will make your music play loud enough, and the remaining difference is like 10% sound quality. Some people are more sensitive to that difference than others. For me, my reference setup vs iPod with stock buds is like the difference between 7th grade orchestra performing Beethoven in the auditorium vs the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra performing the same song in their music ampitheater. Other people listen to the radio and CDs on a boombox and don't think anything about it.

So with your computer as source and assuming you won't use a portable player, I say get a better sound card, FiiO E10, or an Objective 2 amp + FiiO D3 DAC or similar, in order of what I think is better and better SQ. I personally think an external solution has better sound quality than a sound card, cheaper too as a bonus.

Edit: Asus Xonar U1 vs FiiO E10 review on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3BR4D67AUF6V4/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B005VO7LG6&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't know what he wants. If its for gaming, I'd get a good soundcard. The Mixamp is only for those that are gonna use it ever outside of pc use. Since I don't game on pc, the mixamp is good.

Lol, I think my Pro 900 is already crackling on the right driver. Not good. Might have to ask for a replacement. Not sure yet. It crackled on songs that never crackled before.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Doesn't the Mixamp have a DAC section (digital to analogue converter, basically what your sound card does) that activates when you connect with an Optical cable and PCM signal?
> Well anyway, E6 should be loud enough, but the extra muscle of a more powerful amp like the O2 presents audio more gracefully on larger headphones. Dentu, you may not feel like you're missing anything with the E6 vs O2, unless you try them side-by side or you've amassed experience detecting what effect different amps can have.
> It's like a good enough amp will make your music play loud enough, and the remaining difference is like 10% sound quality. Some people are more sensitive to that difference than others. For me, my reference setup vs iPod with stock buds is like the difference between 7th grade orchestra performing Beethoven in the auditorium vs the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra performing the same song in their music ampitheater. Other people listen to the radio and CDs on a boombox and don't think anything about it.
> So with your computer as source and assuming you won't use a portable player, I say get a better sound card, FiiO E7, or an Objective 2 amp + FiiO D3 DAC or similar, in order of what I think is better and better SQ. I personally think an external solution has better sound quality than a sound card, cheaper too as a bonus.


 
   
  MixAmp + PC needs the signal that gets fed into from the sound card--and not all sound cards will output a 7.1 signal for the MixAmp to downmix (some stock cards may only output 2.0), so that defeats the point of a MixAmp already. This is why I advise dentu to stay away from considering any DAC for the time being. Alternatively he might get a sound card that does what the MixAmp does, negating the MixAmp's necessity entirely.
   
  E6 vs O2: nevermind "good" amping, the O2 should surely amp louder than the E6. Since both amps are well regarded as neutral, and dentu's complaint is his headphones play too softly, I figure the O2 is the safer bet.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I didn't know what he wants. If its for gaming, I'd get a good soundcard. The Mixamp is only for those that are gonna use it ever outside of pc use. Since I don't game on pc, the mixamp is good.
> Lol, I think my Pro 900 is already crackling on the right driver. Not good. Might have to ask for a replacement. Not sure yet. It crackled on songs that never crackled before.



I never understood why one would get an internal sound card for a Pc unless they want a clean desktop; paying for more electronic shielding to reduce noise is apparently still not as clean as an external DAC, which probably would outlive the computer. Is it for software EQ and decoder processing?



eric_c said:


> MixAmp + PC needs the signal that gets fed into from the sound card--and not all sound cards will output a 7.1 signal for the MixAmp to downmix (some stock cards may only output 2.0), so that defeats the point of a MixAmp already. This is why I advise dentu to stay away from considering any DAC for the time being. Alternatively he might get a sound card that does what the MixAmp does, negating the MixAmp's necessity entirely.
> 
> E6 vs O2: nevermind "good" amping, the O2 should surely amp louder than the E6. Since both amps are well regarded as neutral, and dentu's complaint is his headphones play too softly, I figure the O2 is the safer bet.




 Well the O2 certainly has plenty of power, I was just speaking from my experience in my AKG's ability to be driven pretty loud off the older E5.

About the Mixamp, I don't know how well it can be integrated into computer use. Sorta why I asked about the Mixamp's DAC before, and didn't recommend it. I thought most DACs bypass the computer's sound card completely, maybe thats only the ones with USB. I think I might be confusing the issue for dentu, sorry, so I'm just going to sleep. G'night all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm its not crackling anymore. They were crackling when playing music on the Vita. Must've been a lack of juice or something.

Hmm... I'm enjoying them a lot more now. I changed my NFB5's filter to 8, which is the most linear setting, with no real treble roll off. Dunno if it's placebo, but it does sound better now. Been using them aaaaaall day.


----------



## dentnu

Wow thanks for your great input you guys after reading all your reply's I am going to go with MLE and Eric_C Suggestion and go with the O2 amp. Now just to let you guys know I do also game on consoles but not that much I really tend to prefer to game on my PC over a console as my PC is allot more powerful than a console and everything looks and plays 10 times better. Only time I ever game on a console is when a game comes out that is not made for PC to. My question is and I think I know the answer already but will ask anyways just in case. The O2 is not compatible with consoles huh? I think I will still get the O2 in the end as I do my gaming 95% of the time on PC and skip the mixamp for now. Now about the Fiio D3 DAC why would I need to buy that also what does that do exactly and how will it benefit me ? I am sorry about all these questions but I am a noob to all of this so all you guys help is greatly appreciated.
   
   
  Thanks


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





dentnu said:


> The O2 is not compatible with consoles huh?


 
   
  The O2 is an amp. Spend some time reading up on what amps and DACs do, and you'll have a better idea of how the O2 can/can't interact with PCs and consoles. 
  Until then, just stick with what you know (e.g. we're recommending the O2 + PC for your specific case at this specific time), and avoid buying anything outside of that.


----------



## dentnu

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> The O2 is an amp. Spend some time reading up on what amps and DACs do, and you'll have a better idea of how the O2 can/can't interact with PCs and consoles.
> Until then, just stick with what you know (e.g. we're recommending the O2 + PC for your specific case at this specific time), and avoid buying anything outside of that.


 
   
  Thanks will be ordering one in a few minutes. Now I read on the JDS labs site that I can ask them to change the stock gain that they come with which I believe is 2.5x/6.5x and ask them upon request to change it to 1.0x/6.5x or 2.5x/1.0x. Now my last question before I order it is do I stick with the stock gain it comes with or should I ask them to change it to something else ?
   
  Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

The stock setup is best for most uses. The extra-low gain option is for sensitive earplug-style speakers, and even then most of those (called In Ear Monitors, or IEMs for short) don't need such a low gain. Your Sennheisers will sound better with the standard recommended setting.

You can pass *stereo* sound from your Xbox through the O2 if you use your AV cables and a cheap RCA to Headphone adapter, that's what I do most of the time these days.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

I probably should've asked before I spent $25 on a Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS but what the hay. My question: Mad Lust seems to hate all the headphone products produced by Turtle Beach but how are the Ear Force DSS amps they make? Is the DSS good despite the fact that the Turtle Beach HPs seem to have problems (the problem seemed to be double amping in Mad Lust's case)? I will run it out of either my MacBook pro (probably just analog in) and through my PS3 (digital optical in). I've heard great things about the DSS and DSS2 (more expensive so didn't buy) so I want to know if it was a good decision if I plan on gaming with my Denon D5000s and HD 598s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like Astros headset either, but I love the Mixamp. The DSS should be great, especially at the price. After all, its a dolby headphone amp, and should sound 99% the same as the Mixamp, just with a different amount of hiss. Hell, I'd buy one at that price.


----------



## DemonFox

Well personally I love my 5.8 mix amp and I've hook up everything from my pro 900's, Hifi 780's, Steel series Siberia v2, Klipsch Image ones, a random set of stereo conference phones with a boom mic my nuforce in ears, both Astro a40 and a30 just to name a few. I'm not a fan of the sound of Astro either. Very overrated in my opinion. You. Pay for appearance and presentation (cough V-moda) more than sound quality.. Yah at $25 for the DSS that's a must have!! 

Hey Mad I have a question for you. Outta the AKG 240MKII and the dt770/80 what do you think will be the better overall can?? I'll use them for music and gaming as well. Full disclosour... I'm a basshead.. Not that either one of those have to be monsters but I want a good secondary can to complement my 900's. $250 and under is my price range also thinking HE-300 but haven't read enough on them yet. If you think I'm leaving a set out that would be equally better please let me know. I'm a big console gamer (BF3 don't hate) too so what would you do in this scenario. 

Everyone please feel free to throw in Your $.02

Thanks,

D


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> Well personally I love my 5.8 mix amp and I've hook up everything from my pro 900's, Hifi 780's, Steel series Siberia v2, Klipsch Image ones, a random set of stereo conference phones with a boom mic my nuforce in ears, both Astro a40 and a30 just to name a few. I'm not a fan of the sound of Astro either. Very overrated in my opinion. You. Pay for appearance and presentation (cough V-moda) more than sound quality.. Yah at $25 for the DSS that's a must have!!
> Hey Mad I have a question for you. Outta the AKG 240MKII and the dt770/80 what do you think will be the better overall can?? I'll use them for music and gaming as well. Full disclosour... I'm a basshead.. Not that either one of those have to be monsters but I want a good secondary can to complement my 900's. $250 and under is my price range also thinking HE-300 but haven't read enough on them yet. If you think I'm leaving a set out that would be equally better please let me know. I'm a big console gamer (BF3 don't hate) too so what would you do in this scenario.
> Everyone please feel free to throw in Your $.02
> Thanks,
> D


 
  I own the AKG K242HD and DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.
  I'm not into bass like I was before and would normally wear my K242HD (very closed model to the K240MKII) a lot more then the DT770.
  But if your into full bass, then get the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I own the AKG K242HD and DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.
> I'm not into bass like I was before and would normally wear my K242HD (very closed model to the K240MKII) a lot more then the DT770.
> But if your into full bass, then get the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm.


 
   
  Hmm good to know... Does the bass seem to muddy up the rest of the sound in the 770/80's?? I know AKG is known for is pure smoothness and clarity but how does the Beyers compare in regards to clarity. Mad Lust said that the sound stage is ridicules in the 770's which is a big deal for me since I will be using them for serious gaming. Does the AKG have more grunt or lower end then say the 598's or the Shure 840's??
   
  Sorry for all the random questions, but like I said just trying to find out as much info as possible before I make my decision.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Thanks for the input! Although I won't be able to try it out on the PS3 until mid August, I will try to post my impressions of it with a movie or music. Thanks again!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> Hmm good to know... Does the bass seem to muddy up the rest of the sound in the 770/80's?? I know AKG is known for is pure smoothness and clarity but how does the Beyers compare in regards to clarity. Mad Lust said that the sound stage is ridicules in the 770's which is a big deal for me since I will be using them for serious gaming. Does the AKG have more grunt or lower end then say the 598's or the Shure 840's??
> 
> Sorry for all the random questions, but like I said just trying to find out as much info as possible before I make my decision.


 
  The DT770 Pro 80-Ohm needs a decent headphone amplifier to sound it's best.
  To me the mids and highs are still there with the Pro 80-Ohm.
  AKG vs HD598 vs SRH840, have no idea how the bass compares


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see a reason to own the 770/80s when you own the Pro 900s. The only strength the 770s have over the Pro 900 is soundstage. You are downgrading every other aspect of sound. I don't know anything about the AKGs.

I'd say the DT990 Pros, as the complimentary can.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm its not crackling anymore. They were crackling when playing music on the Vita. Must've been a lack of juice or something.
> Hmm... I'm enjoying them a lot more now. I changed my NFB5's filter to 8, which is the most linear setting, with no real treble roll off. Dunno if it's placebo, but it does sound better now. Been using them aaaaaall day.


 
  Does your hearing even go that high?


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The DT770 Pro 80-Ohm needs a decent headphone amplifier to sound it's best.
> To me the mids and highs are still there with the Pro 80-Ohm.
> AKG vs HD598 vs SRH840, have no idea how the bass compares


 
  Awesome, I have a e11 and plan/thinking about getting the e7 so that should work for now..
   
  Thanks for the help!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

phos said:


> Does your hearing even go that high?




Doubt it, though the Pro 900 is sounding quite a bit better than the first few days I owned it. My problem now is that I think the treble is more prominent on the right driver. I can't wear them backwards to see if its true due to the positioning of S logic. Everything sounds muffled when worn backwards.

I may have to ask for a replacement, though I'm gonna wait for the HE400. If they satisfy me for everything, I may not keep the Pro 900.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't see a reason to own the 770/80s when you own the Pro 900s. The only strength the 770s have over the Pro 900 is soundstage. You are downgrading every other aspect of sound. I don't know anything about the AKGs.
> I'd say the DT990 Pros, as the complimentary can.


 
  Ok, until I just did a little search I thought the 990/250 we out of my price range of $249 but I keep finding them for $199 with shipping. So if we're only talking a $20 difference it sounds like thats the best deal out there!! One more question then since we switch to the 990... I do have an e11 as I stated earlier so that "should" be enough to power them right?? This will be my first can with that high of an impedance. And also when you game with them do you just use the Mix-Amp or do you rig it somehow to give it more power?? 
   
   
  Thanks again, you guys have been a huge help..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should be fine with the E11. They can do with better amping, but they'll be fine.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You should be fine with the E11. They can do with better amping, but they'll be fine.


 
  Ok cool. So the e11 will work for now but upgrading to the e7/e9 may not be a bad idea either... Great information
   
   
  Thanks again,
   
  D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone want an E9 for cheap? I'll sell mine $60 total, USA buyers. I don't have much use for it, since my main setup is with the NFB5, and I no longer need it to help drive the Mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

jmanofisrael said:


> I probably should've asked before I spent $25 on a Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS but what the hay. My question: Mad Lust seems to hate all the headphone products produced by Turtle Beach but how are the Ear Force DSS amps they make? Is the DSS good despite the fact that the Turtle Beach HPs seem to have problems (the problem seemed to be double amping in Mad Lust's case)? I will run it out of either my MacBook pro (probably just analog in) and through my PS3 (digital optical in). I've heard great things about the DSS and DSS2 (more expensive so didn't buy) so I want to know if it was a good decision if I plan on gaming with my Denon D5000s and HD 598s.




Where did you find the DSS for $25? A lot of reviews state that the DSS is better than the DSS2 because it appears the new version doesn't have as many surround channels. For $25 I would get one for the convenience of hooking up to my Xbox.

Also, the MacBook Pro has an optical audio out, so you have that option.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone want an E9 for cheap? I'll sell mine $60 total, USA buyers. I don't have much use for it, since my main setup is with the NFB5, and I no longer need it to help drive the Mixamp.


 
   
  Don't tempt me! Away ye devil! Begone evil thoughts of monetary departure!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For you guys, I'll sell it for $55 total. (need just a smidge for shipping) 

That's half price.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Doubt it, though the Pro 900 is sounding quite a bit better than the first few days I owned it. My problem now is that I think the treble is more prominent on the right driver. I can't wear them backwards to see if its true due to the positioning of S logic. Everything sounds muffled when worn backwards.
> I may have to ask for a replacement, though I'm gonna wait for the HE400. If they satisfy me for everything, I may not keep the Pro 900.


 
  Rotating them such that the band is behind your head can't put the drivers in the right place?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because the speaker holes are off center on Ultrasones. They are VERY finicky with placement. Wearin g them backwards puts the speaker holes on the opposite of your ears, so everything sounds WAY off. The treble disappears, and it because a boomy mess.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad! Aaaugh! AAAAAAAUGH! If you had asked last week... What are you considering as a replacement?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing. I don't need a secondary amp at the moment. If anything, I might get an E17 as a secondary amp/dac combo for portable use (laptops, etc). That's way down the line though.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Where did you find the DSS for $25? A lot of reviews state that the DSS is better than the DSS2 because it appears the new version doesn't have as many surround channels. For $25 I would get one for the convenience of hooking up to my Xbox.
> Also, the MacBook Pro has an optical audio out, so you have that option.


 
  I found it on ebay for $28.99 (I had a gift card so I lied!), here is a link (for some reason not the same seller):
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-DSS-7-1-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Sound-Processor-/221073046176?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3378fafaa0#ht_500wt_1266
   
  It was used and doesn't come with any cables but most people own a USB to mini-USB, optical, etc. so why not give it a try. The buyer didn't give me a reason to question the legitimacy so I trusted my gut and went for it. Its covered by ebay's protection plan and I can probably et over $30 if I have to. We will see.


----------



## DemonFox

Is there a better portable amp than the e11 thats around or under $100??


----------



## Evshrug

Your Mixamp is your primary? Well anyway I'm set, someone else will surely be lucky. Borrowed CoD:BO, seems more fun than MW3 despite more glitches and uneven audio through the TV speakers (the away from home setup). Just found out half.com sells videogames and music in addition to textbooks, yay!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Me? My primary setup is the NFB5, which is an amp+dac. The Mixamp is my gaming only setup (sometimes movies). Never music.


----------



## Evshrug

demonfox said:


> Is there a better portable amp than the e11 thats around or under $100??




Uh, well Mad's E9 is better as an amp than the E11, and selling for a fantastic price at the moment, though it's more transportable than portable. The Little Dot i+ hybrid amp is also quite renowned for $120 new, and the Objective 2 amp which you can build yourself from JDS Labs for around $100 or pre-assembled for $144 plus shipping. FiiO also has the portable amp/DAC E17 that is good on it's own but it can be docked with the E9 for a desktop amp/DAC solution. The E17 is $140 on amazon.

That's my shortlist, they're mostly small desktop amps and not something that can sit next to an iPod in your pocket (except the E17), others probably have other suggestions. Not sure how many portable headphones require an amp better than the E11.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Uh, well Mad's E9 is better as an amp than the E11, and selling for a fantastic price at the moment, though it's more transportable than portable. The Little Dot i+ hybrid amp is also quite renowned for $120 new, and the Objective 2 amp which you can build yourself from JDS Labs for around $100 or pre-assembled for $144 plus shipping. FiiO also has the portable amp/DAC E17 that is good on it's own but it can be docked with the E9 for a desktop amp/DAC solution. The E17 is $140 on amazon.
> That's my shortlist, they're mostly small desktop amps and not something that can sit next to an iPod in your pocket (except the E17), others probably have other suggestions. Not sure how many portable headphones require an amp better than the E11.


 
   
  Well I'm going to be powering the Dt990/250 so I need something strong to power them right. The E11 will handle up to 300 ohm but I dont want to max the little guy out or make it strain just to power the headphones. I guess I'll just wait and see if it can handle it but I'll also check out the little dot i+ and I'm pretty familiar with the fiio line and the e17 & e7 and I really like what I see and hear about the e7 and how it can sync with the e9 but I dont think I'm ready for that yet. Once I get my man cave set up I'll get something along that line for now I just need a good portable that can take care of business you know...
   
  Thanks,
   
  D


----------



## Eric_C

^ IIRC the 880 and 990 use the same drivers (they're just put in different housings, so it alters the sound). So my experience with the 880/250 should be relevant here:
   
  MixAmp + 880 for single-player is fine. This is because the mix knob is dialled completely to "game"; the only issues I have are channel balance, which may be unique to my case, since I bought the MixAmp secondhand.
   
  For multiplayer (or to sort out channel imbalance at particular volume settings), I daisy chain the MixAmp to a portable amp. Mine is the Pico, which is well-regarded, but it's also not known to be particularly powerful--in other words, if this has enough power for my 880, your E11 (which  I often hear is a powerful portable amp) should have enough power for your 990.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you sure, Eric? I could've sworn the drivers on the 990s were different from the 880s.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Ya.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/600807/list-of-headphones-with-the-same-drivers
http://www.head-fi.org/t/351227/how-to-convert-dt-880-into-dt-990-and-vice-versa-dt-770-info


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, because the speaker holes are off center on Ultrasones. They are VERY finicky with placement. Wearin g them backwards puts the speaker holes on the opposite of your ears, so everything sounds WAY off. The treble disappears, and it because a boomy mess.


 
  My understanding of S-logic is that they're not angled, just off center, so you should be able to get them into the proper orientation by rotating the entire headphone forwards or backwards, about the axis passing through both ear cups, so to speak.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All I know is that the driver when worn correctly is on the front side of the cups. Wearing them backwards puts the drivers almost behind your ear lobes, which is why I'm guessing it's a muddy, boomy mess. I absolutely love how easy the pads are to attach/detach on the Ultrasones.

About to go rent Uncharted 3 off Redbox. Feel like doing a second run through of it.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Can hardly wait for 'The Last of Us'!


----------



## Evshrug

demonfox said:


> Well I'm going to be powering the Dt990/250 so I need something strong to power them right. The E11 will handle up to 300 ohm but I dont want to max the little guy out or make it strain just to power the headphones. I guess I'll just wait and see if it can handle it but I'll also check out the little dot i+ and I'm pretty familiar with the fiio line and the e17 & e7 and I really like what I see and hear about the e7 and how it can sync with the e9 but I dont think I'm ready for that yet. Once I get my man cave set up I'll get something along that line for now I just need a good portable that can take care of business you know...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> D




Looked up the E11 vs E17, @ 300 ohms the E11 outputs 35mW, actually suppling 5 mW more maximum output than the E17. You might want to wait till you can test your existing amp with the new headphone before buying a new amp. Btw the E9 has 1W @ 16 ohm to 80 mW @ 600 ohm, indeed gobs of power. Both the E17 and E7 can "sync" with the E9, it even looks like FiiO is replacing the current E9 with a model that docks the E17 natively into its upper slot connection without any adapters.


----------



## lubczyk

Has anyone tried the AKG K550 with Dolby Headphone (and perhaps without?) I'd really like to hear/read/see how they perform.


----------



## Bachnaify

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Has anyone tried the AKG K550 with Dolby Headphone (and perhaps without?) I'd really like to hear/read/see how they perform.


 
  A ask Mad Lust Envy wheter he ever thinks about test them. I'm very interested how will it works with DH but unfortunately when I search answers in internet about AKG K550 gaming impressions I found nothing. I'm not sure but I think that actually no one test them in gaming. I think that people are worried, cause this is new product. No one wanna try them first. Everyone want buy something which were tested that is good in somethin. I only know that AKG is comfy, and very good isolates.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not interested in the K550s, and doubt I will ever try them. I only do the reviews on headphones I personally buy for my own use, or if someone sends them out to me (which has happened once).


----------



## Bachnaify

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm not interested in the K550s, and doubt I will ever try them. I only do the reviews on headphones I personally buy for my own use, or if someone sends them out to me (which has happened once).


 
  Yeah, I know. It was just message to ''lubczyk''. But maybe someone who writes in this thread will get them or maybe someone heard them. I read that K550 has nice soundstage. Paradoxically K550 was the first headphones I want to buy, but later I found this site and everything goes different 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## crzycuyler

I feel the same about the K550. For the longest time I was almost convinced I'd be purchasing them, but I don't want to take the risk. I've read many times that it is similar to the Q701 but has fuller bass. Even though audio can be quite subjective, I was surprised to hear that these closed phones sound better than the Q701 from multiple sources.


----------



## Ztrains

Does anyone know a video or thing i can do to check if one of my speakers aren't working right?  I just got my SR850 and it seems the right ear isn't as loud as the left one.  I can't tell if it's me or the headphones.  The weird part is when i flip the headphones around it sounds more natural so I'm not sure.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Hi! Sorry if it may seem like I'm replying to a random post of yours MLE. I've read countless numbers of pages of this specific thread in this forum in regards to headphones as I'm considering purchasing a nice pair myself. I do both PC as well as Console gaming (PS3) and have just recently purchased an Astro Mixamp which sounds amazing thus far in combination with my PS3. Currently I'm using them with some relatively expensive bose in ears priced at around 100+€. I don't know the exact model as they belong to my brother, but needless to say they're amazing. However I'd like myself some over the ear headphones to which I can attach a seperate mic. should I ever need it for gaming. I'd be using the headphones on my PS3 via the Astro Mixamp via my Laptop using the Astro Mixamp (just purchased a USB Micro II from Turtle beach to enable USB to optical) so that I can connect the included TOSLINK cable of the Astro Mixamp to my laptop. 
   
  My first question here is, does using a USB to Optical connection sacrifice sound in anyway? (I believe the device itself is/has a soundcard) and I'm unsure of how it will respond in connection to the Mixamp.
   
  As for the Headphones I've read countless countless threads and yours was the most helpful of all! Congrats on all the information, the entire world learns to depend on you in regards to headphones and general know how as to what to do!
   
  I've narrowed my list down to:

 AKG Q701 at 259€ = 317 USD
  AKG K701 at 209€ = 255USD
  Beyerdynamics DT 990 Edition at 209€ = 255USD <----I think editions are so called premiums on your end of the world!
  (32 Ohm version as I read that you recommended it for it's everyday versatility, I don't currently have an AMP/DAC asides from the Mixamp, but SOMEDAY I would definitely look into purchasing one that can cost up to 150€ Max. Someday being within the next 6 months.
   
  I'd like a Headphone I can use outside with my MP3 player or phone. Should I someday purchase an amplifier/dac I'd like it to be portable. And from all the reading I've done, the most spoken of seems to be the Fiio E17. Since I'll be getting an amp/dac SOMEDAY, should I look into higher Ohm DT 990s or are the 32 Ohms just fine.
   
  Does anything set these headphones apart? My music varies for Rap to RnB to some melodic metal as well as some classical. Just a little bit of everything. A decent amount of K-pop and J-pop as well! I'm not a proffesional gamer by any means, so 100% PRECISION EXACT LOCATION OF THE ENEMY is not necessarily important as I've never played this way in the past. Primarily because I haven't been able to. Perhaps this will change once I get a good set up and a good pair of headphones going. I can't answer that now. I'd like the headphones to have a high fun factor. So. What do? I'd love your input! And it'd be nice if you could recommend an affordable amp to go with the headphones as well (perhaps a microphone too) 
   
  I'm living in Germany, just btw 
   
  Another offtopic question would be, my brother is looking for nice sounding headphones for Music purposes only when he takes walks to work priced at up to 75 Dollars. And they should only have a single cable coming from the headphones. I'd be forever grateful if somebody or you (MLE) could answer me these questions!
   
  Kind Regards!


----------



## DemonFox

Ok, so wow!! I just received a new pair of AKG K-240 MK II and ok, I'm hooked!! Now they lack the sub base of any of my Ultrasone's but the clarity is amazing!! Now I know AKG fan boy is somewhere cussing me out saying I told ya so!! Well fine you were right, these things are amazing!! The overall sound detail is off the charts and I used them with my 5.8 mix-amp, e11, and MacBook pro I played BF3 while using combo of mix-amp and e11. At 55 omh I figured it wouldn't hurt and my first impression was shoot I forgot to turn the mixamp on.. Little did I know that it was already on and the sound was so clear and detailed I thought it was my surround system!! They are "Semi-open" but come on buddy you aren't fooling anyone they're open, and offer little to no seal so sound is all over the place and the only con so far is that they are very loose and I wish the fit was a little tighter but outside of that I'm good. But back to the sound.. So while playing bf3 (best sounding FPS ever created hands down) I was hearing details that I'd never heard before and even though the bass lacked during my first attempt at Dub but it was literally my first attempt (I'll try it again later tonight) but for gaming the bass was exactly what it was supposed to be, tight, quick, and didn't get in the way of the rest of the sound. I was more impressed the moment I put on my HIFI 780's and was disgusted by how muddy everything sounded compared to the 240 mk II. I'll be doing a lot of different test to see how they compare in different music generes and more BF3,but I'll tell you what, my wife and wallet better hope I don't find a better pair of AKG's that have a punchier bottom because I'm very intrigued at what I've heard so far. 

If anyone out there knows of such a pair please let me know! 

FYI I wrote this from my iPhone so if it's a little wonky I apologize.. 

Thanks, 

D


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





lelouchleonhart said:


> Hi! Sorry if it may seem like I'm replying to a random post of yours MLE...
> [House cleaning]
> ...Kind Regards!


 
   
  I myself have done the Micro II to Mixamp to headphones from my laptop. It works quite well. I also have an Asus Xonar U3. It's a USB sound card that does Dolby Headphone. The issue with it is low power, so you'll need an amp to get the same volume that you can on the micro/mixamp combo. An important note, install the drivers for the Micro II, it can't do 5.1 output until they're installed, it'll only be stereo using windows drivers. Get yourself a short optical and USB to USB Mini cable, under 1m if able (I have a ~.4m length on both). It's bulky, but it's a nice sounding setup. And the mixamp adds a nice bit of power into the equation to drive phones. Going through USB will not degrade sound quality over most stock integrated sound cards. Plus it's kinda required for most laptops to get optical out. There are several with the connection built in, but not many.
   
  As for the headphones you listed, I'd get the Qs, but I'm biased towards their sound


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Hi thanks for the response! Really informative information on the Micro II that I appreciate! You mentioned the Asus Xonar U3. Are they both on par with eachother? Or should I purchase the Xonar U3 over the Micro II? I really don't know much about either of these products. What's important to me is that the sound is ideal and that it'll run through a Mixamp. Do I NEED a shorter optical cable? or is using the (pretty long) one that came with astro just fine? Thanks in advance! 
   
  I'd still appreciate answers, especially from MLE to my first post (2 posts above this)
   
  So far it seems like Q701 vs D990 Premium Editions (the latter unsure of 32 or 250 ohm)
   
EDIT: I'd like to mention I'm a metal construction fan boy as well >_<

 EDIT 2: It seems this review puts the Qs in the forefront. IDK which LOL Qs, Ks, or the Beyers dear lord!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review


----------



## AxelCloris

Both can do optical out. The U3 can do Dolby Headphone without the Mixamp, but then for many cans you'd need an amp to drive them fully. Quality wise, they're close. The U3 has more features, which is nice. The Mirco II is cheaper. Here in the US, the Micro II is $25, the U3 is $40, so for me there's a difference in price, but you do get what you pay for. If you have headphones that don't need an amp, having the U3 will be portable with a laptop. I don't consider my mixamp portable, but that's why I have both. As for needing a shorter cable, no, it's not a need. But for about $5 I got both cables and having the short cables help keep things organized. I keep the longer ones that came with the mixamp connected to my xbox. The included ones are far too long to use with a computer if you ask me.
   
  So in a nutshell, if it's not for portable use and since you already have the Mixamp, I'd say the Micro II. If you want to go mobile at some point, spend a little more for the U3. It'll allow you to use the mixamp at home, and Dolby Headphone when on the go as well. I'm still trying to find a good pair of folding headphones that I can use when traveling. Still kinda eyeing Ultrasone Pros.
   
  Edit. Should point out that the software that comes with the U3 gives you more control over the output as well. So if you plan to EQ anything, need any kind of effects, or just like having the option to do so you'd want to go U3. The software with the Micro II is nice and light, but doesn't really offer much in the way of options.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Well I've already purchased a Micro II already actually, but it hasn't been shipped yet. There are auctions on the U3 Ending soon on ebay and I'm sure I can get them at around 30 Euros at most where they usually go for around 40 here. If the sound quality is better, I don't mind spending a little more to get the U3. So basically if laptop-> U3-> mixamp-> Headphones sounds better than doing the same with a Micro II I'm definitely for it. Can I get some confirmation on this? Is the fact that both the U3 and the Mixamp produce virtual surround a negative thing because they would be doing it at the same time? And since the U3 already has sort of an amplifier, is it okay to one day be able to connect a Fiio Amplifier after the Mixamp. Basically  laptop-> U3-> mixamp-> Fio Exx-> Headphones
   
  Any more opinions on the Q701s vs the Beyer DT 990s Premium editions. (read above posts for full story)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lelouchleonhart said:


> Hi! Sorry if it may seem like I'm replying to a random post of yours MLE. I've read countless numbers of pages of this specific thread in this forum in regards to headphones as I'm considering purchasing a nice pair myself. I do both PC as well as Console gaming (PS3) and have just recently purchased an Astro Mixamp which sounds amazing thus far in combination with my PS3. Currently I'm using them with some relatively expensive bose in ears priced at around 100+€. I don't know the exact model as they belong to my brother, but needless to say they're amazing. However I'd like myself some over the ear headphones to which I can attach a seperate mic. should I ever need it for gaming. I'd be using the headphones on my PS3 via the Astro Mixamp via my Laptop using the Astro Mixamp (just purchased a USB Micro II from Turtle beach to enable USB to optical) so that I can connect the included TOSLINK cable of the Astro Mixamp to my laptop.




I have no idea how all that works for your laptop setup, so others should definitely chime in to help you out.



> My first question here is, does using a USB to Optical connection sacrifice sound in anyway? (I believe the device itself is/has a soundcard) and I'm unsure of how it will respond in connection to the Mixamp.




they're both digital, so other than possibly adding jitter (which I have no idea how jitter even sounds like, you shouldn't noticeably hear any negative effects. I'm more worried whether you can keep a 5.1 Dolby signal to go to your Mixamp in this setup.



> AKG Q701 at 209€ = 255USD
> Beyerdynamics DT 990 Edition at 209€ = 255USD <----I think editions are so called premiums on your end of the world!




I personally prefer the DT990 as my all rounder. The Q701 is amazing, but doesn't have as much bass as I'd personally like. Overall, the Q701 is more balanced, and less polarizing, as the DT990's treble can be an issue to many people.



> (32 Ohm version as I read that you recommended it for it's everyday versatility,




Actually, I believe the 32ohm is about as hard to drive as the 250ohm, and definitely needs an amp, though a portable amp like the Fiio E11 may power it better than the 250ohm. Keep in mind, I have only heard the 600ohm DT990s, and 250ohm pros, which sounds a bit different due to more prominent bass. All in all, none of the main Beyers are easy to drive. The 32ohm beyer I ownbed was the DT880s. They were seriously not like any other 32ohm headphone I owned. They needed an amp. DEFINITELY.



> I don't currently have an AMP/DAC asides from the Mixamp, but SOMEDAY I would definitely look into purchasing one that can cost up to 150€ Max. Someday being within the next 6 months.




I believe in your side of the world, Epiphany Acoustics sells the O2 pre-made, which should fall in your budget, and is very highly regarded. That's be the amp I'd get. It's small, but I don't think it's portable... more like transportable.



> I'd like a Headphone I can use outside with my MP3 player or phone. Should I someday purchase an amplifier/dac I'd like it to be portable. And from all the reading I've done, the most spoken of seems to be the Fiio E17. Since I'll be getting an amp/dac SOMEDAY, should I look into higher Ohm DT 990s or are the 32 Ohms just fine.




The DT990s are OPEN, and I highly not recommend them for portable use. Open headphones just are not meant for portable use as they leak a ton of sound, and let a lot of external noise in.



> Does anything set these headphones apart? My music varies for Rap to RnB to some melodic metal as well as some classical. Just a little bit of everything. A decent amount of K-pop and J-pop as well! I'm not a proffesional gamer by any means, so 100% PRECISION EXACT LOCATION OF THE ENEMY is not necessarily important as I've never played this way in the past. Primarily because I haven't been able to. Perhaps this will change once I get a good set up and a good pair of headphones going. I can't answer that now. I'd like the headphones to have a high fun factor. So. What do? I'd love your input! And it'd be nice if you could recommend an affordable amp to go with the headphones as well (perhaps a microphone too)




The Q701 does justice to every genre except bass heavy ones, like EDM, which will sound amazing off the DT990s. The DT990s however don't have forward mids/vocals, so stuff like classical and acoustic, doesn't sound as great as with the Q701.




> Another offtopic question would be, my brother is looking for nice sounding headphones for Music purposes only when he takes walks to work priced at up to 75 Dollars. And they should only have a single cable coming from the headphones. I'd be forever grateful if somebody or you (MLE) could answer me these questions!
> 
> Kind Regards!




To be honest, I personally do not remember any of the portables I owned being single sided. Even the Creative Aurvana Live/ES7 are double sided. I honestly wouldn't know.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Firstly, thanks for the super speedy response! I really appreciate getting some help with this!
   
  Well since all I have now is the Mixamp, would it still be okay to opt for the DT 990 Premium? Like, is the sound THAT much worse than using it unamped (it will only get better when I decide to amp it). And since they are all difficult to amp, which would you recommend if I have to get an amp someday anyways? Can your recommended 02 Amp properly amp the 250 Ohm and the 600 Ohm versions? I probably won't be using these outside, so disregard me mentioning that!
   
  How would you rate the Q701s and the DT 990s for gaming then? You said as an all-rouder YOU recommended the 990s however in another thread I read (in the link I postet above) that it's rather the other way around. I'm not going to be running a professional system by any means, for a while at first, all I will have is the Mixamp from Astro. Will be using it for gaming 60% of the time, and for music 40%.
   
  I'll respond again once I get home (1 hour or so), I just wanted to quicky respond asking these few things. I'll look deeper into your recommendations when I'm back home from work! If you have any other setups or recommendations I'd be happy to accept any! My music genres have already been listed, and they'll be used quite a bit for FPS gaming as well! Really thankful again!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, for the purpose of gaming, the Mixamp will be perfectly fine, if you're not using a mic. Meaning, leave the game/voice knob, fully on game. For MUSIC, you'll want a better amp later on.

I gave you my ratings, lol. They on the first page. All the scores on this thread ARE for gaming. I don't rate the music side, as there's plenty of reviews online.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Hi, you're right, sorry for confusing the music aspect of the headphones then! Well I realized, since I'm using these primarily at home, I suppose it would be ok to have an actual Headset that has a mic.
   
  The place where I ordered the mixamp from (roxxgames.de) offers the mixamp in a bundle with the Beyer MMX 300 (which has 32 Ohm I think)...I would be paying around about 220 for the MMX300 where the going price is around 300 or more here. Asides from that pair (which is based off of the DT 770 if I'm not mistaken) they also offer the Sennheiser PC360. Do you have any comments in regards to these two? I remember reading somewhere that you took a liking to the PC360 but Im not sure if I can still find that thread. Anything you could tell me about these two? I'd be saving a decent amount of money if i were to opt for the Sennheiser, the website sells them for about 160. And I may be able to get them elsewhere for cheaper. I think the both of these would require little to no external amping? Would be primarily for gaming, but indoors for music too.  I'm just not sure about the sound quality, and if its worth paying about 60 more for the MMX300 (a dt770 with a mic slapped on)

 Perhaps you know other good Headphones with mics?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, you're on the thread! It's on the first page. The MMX300 should be quite stellar for gaming, though the PC360 will have a better soundstage. The MMX300 might be more lively than the PC360, which are well balanced, but aren't exactly exciting.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Well thanks a lot! I'd like some clarification on the following, I strolled around the forum some more and read somewhere that you HIGHLY recommended getting the PC360 together with the WIRELESS Mixamp from Astro as there would be an added Bass Booster which could iron out any of the perceived deficiencies. Does this sound like a solid package for gaming? I'd be able to save A LOT more money vs. getting the MMX 300 which may just be overkill in my particular situation. And I take it I won't NEED another dedicated amp to be able to enjoy this headset combination properly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That should be fine. The only thing is that the bass booster on the wireless Mixamp sometimes distorts when there are really heavy bassy parts in games. Some games it's a rare occurence, some games it happens a lot. In any case, this doesn't harm the headphone, so you can just turn off bass boost if a game is too bassy for the Mixamp's bass booster.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





lelouchleonhart said:


> Well I've already purchased a Micro II already actually, but it hasn't been shipped yet. There are auctions on the U3 Ending soon on ebay and I'm sure I can get them at around 30 Euros at most where they usually go for around 40 here. If the sound quality is better, I don't mind spending a little more to get the U3. So basically if laptop-> U3-> mixamp-> Headphones sounds better than doing the same with a Micro II I'm definitely for it. Can I get some confirmation on this? Is the fact that both the U3 and the Mixamp produce virtual surround a negative thing because they would be doing it at the same time? And since the U3 already has sort of an amplifier, is it okay to one day be able to connect a Fiio Amplifier after the Mixamp. Basically  laptop-> U3-> mixamp-> Fio Exx-> Headphones
> 
> Any more opinions on the Q701s vs the Beyer DT 990s Premium editions. (read above posts for full story)


 
   
  Both devices produce surround sound, but you'd want to only have one device doing so in your setup. So just leave a U3 in DD output mode and you're golden. Like I mentioned before, the Micro II is great if you're planning to use this only at home. The U3 is better if you want DH while traveling without adding much bulk. With the mixamp, they'll be acting the exact same.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Both devices produce surround sound, but you'd want to only have one device doing so in your setup. So just leave a U3 in DD output mode and you're golden. Like I mentioned before, the Micro II is great if you're planning to use this only at home. The U3 is better if you want DH while traveling without adding much bulk. With the mixamp, they'll be acting the exact same.


 
  I think I'll try my luck bidding on the U3 then thanks! And I'll be using it in conjunction with the Mixamp or the Mixamp 5.8 at home, presumably this should have a better sound. And since you said I should only have one device doing so, am I able to turn of DD from the U3 (since I only really want this dongle to work as an optical passthrough at home) so I can rely on the DD from the Mixamp, and when I want DD I'll switch it on for when I'm on the go. Sounds about right, right?
   
*EDIT: People seem to recommend devices such as the Fiio E17 and the X-fi HD for gaming/music purposes. It bumps up the price a bit, but portability isn't THAT important to me really. Mostly I'd like to just get what I'm paying for sound quality wise. Since I would be relying on DD from the Mixamp, it's just important that I have a good optical passthrough to my laptop, ideally with some settings.*
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That should be fine. The only thing is that the bass booster on the wireless Mixamp sometimes distorts when there are really heavy bassy parts in games. Some games it's a rare occurence, some games it happens a lot. In any case, this doesn't harm the headphone, so you can just turn off bass boost if a game is too bassy for the Mixamp's bass booster.


 
  Well, wired/wireless isn't an important factor for me by any means. Seeing as I already have the wired Mixamp, do you think I should just keep it too use with my future PC360, or are the advantages (+ occaasional disadvantages) so big that you would definitely recommend the 5.8 over the standard wired Mixamp. Basically is the bass boost THAT good keeping gaming and music in the back of your head. This should be my last question I think > Sorry, I feel like I'm hassling all you guys 
   
*EDIT for MLE: By not getting the 5.8 I wouldn't need to spend more on buying another seperate optical cable, and I wouldn't need the PC/PS3 connector. Though I'm not sure about the latter, if the wired Mixamp works with chat with my pc or ps3. I thought it may do so off the bat, but I may still need that cable. PS3 chat isnt important, but I would like PC chat *
   
EDIT: Figured out how to quote things


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





lelouchleonhart said:


> I think I'll try my luck bidding on the U3 then thanks! And I'll be using it in conjunction with the Mixamp or the Mixamp 5.8 at home, presumably this should have a better sound. And since you said I should only have one device doing so, am I able to turn of DD from the U3 (since I only really want this dongle to work as an optical passthrough at home) so I can rely on the DD from the Mixamp, and when I want DD I'll switch it on for when I'm on the go. Sounds about right, right?
> [...]
> Sorry, I feel like I'm hassling all you guys


 
   
  By default, the card starts in normal mode. When you enable game of movie modes, that turns on DH processing. So as long as both of those are turned off, then it'll be outputting DD which the mixamp will then process. Then when you're on the go, toggle on movie or gaming mode and you'll be golden. I will also point out when I'm on the road that the game dictates which mode I use. If I'm playing a single player, I tend to prefer the sound of movie mode. When I'm getting competitive like TF2, I use game mode. Just use whichever sounds best to you. And for the record, I still own both the Micro II and the U3. The U3 stays in my laptop bag and the Micro II stays with the mixamp at home. Had I not already owned the Micro II, I'd have just used the U3 for both.
   
  And I can't speak for the others, but it's no hassle. I'm pretty sure we're all here to learn and help where we can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I forgot you had the wired Mixamp, which doesn't have the bass boost. In any case, no need to get wireless if you're fine with the wired. The wired Mixamp has less noise, so it's slightly better.


----------



## Naingolann

Kinda unrelated, but I wanted to share with you guys.
   
  So I've just done the "foam mod" and also the "soundstage mod" on my (almost) two-years old HD555 and my mind is totally blown.
  Could be the placebo effect or the burn-in...I don't know, but they sound definitely (much, much) better. So glad I didn't sell these babies. I'm actually considering about re-wiring them as well...
   
  The bass is difinitely tighter and I don't even need the bass boost from the amp anymore. The placement of instruments is slightly better and so is the overall clarity/transparency. I've been only testing my "new" 555 with music, but I can't wait to try 'em with the PS3 asap.
   
  Overall I'd say it's a huge success and I'd definitely recomend these cans to whoever is looking for something cheap. If you can get 'em used with at least 50-100 hours burn-in (yes they need that much time to really shine) from someone, even better, because you can do those easy mods by yourself without worrying too much.


----------



## Ztrains

I have read that the Samson Sr850 can fit the akg k240 velour pads on it to make it better, but 1 person also said that the DT770 pads fit on the Samson's also.  Does anyone know if that is true?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ztrains said:


> I have read that the Samson Sr850 can fit the AKG k240 velour pads on it to make it better, but 1 person also said that the DT770 pads fit on the Samson's also.  Does anyone know if that is true?


 
  I use the AKG K240/241/270 Velour ear pads ($46 USA) on my Samson SR850, it's nice.
  I believe they are also referred to as the AKG K271 Velour ear pads.
  The Samson SR850 cups are a little bigger then the DT770 cups.
  Some use the Creative W.O.W. cushion ear pads on the Sr850.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Kinda unrelated, but I wanted to share with you guys.
> 
> So I've just done the "foam mod" and also the "soundstage mod" on my (almost) two-years old HD555 and my mind is totally blown.
> Could be the placebo effect or the burn-in...I don't know, but they sound definitely (much, much) better. So glad I didn't sell these babies. I'm actually considering about re-wiring them as well...
> ...


 
  You say the bass is tighter... Does it dig any deeper and come with obvious greater presence, or is there just minute improvement?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> You say the bass is tighter... Does it dig any deeper and come with obvious greater presence, or is there just minute improvement?


 
  Yes, the bass is there. I had to listen to some of my favorite "bassy" tracks and I definitely could hear something I couldn't with my mint 555. 
  Mind you, it's a tiny improvement, but it's audible enough.


----------



## Evshrug

demonfox said:


> Ok, so wow!! I just received a new pair of AKG K-240 MK II and ok, I'm hooked!! Now they lack the sub base of any of my Ultrasone's but the clarity is amazing!! Now I know AKG fan boy is somewhere cussing me out saying I told ya so!! Well fine you were right, these things are amazing!!
> 
> The overall sound detail is off the charts and I used them with my 5.8 mix-amp, e11, and MacBook pro I played BF3 while using combo of mix-amp and e11. At 55 omh I figured it wouldn't hurt and my first impression was shoot I forgot to turn the mixamp on.. Little did I know that it was already on and the sound was so clear and detailed I thought it was my surround system!! They are "Semi-open" but come on buddy you aren't fooling anyone they're open, and offer little to no seal so sound is all over the place and the only con so far is that they are very loose and I wish the fit was a little tighter but outside of that I'm good.



I like my headphone a little loose, seems to make me have to readjust less when I listen for hours at a time. What I'm curious is how much sound do they leak... If you have a friend over to try them on, how much can you hear what they're listening to? Compared to, say, earbuds or whatever else ya got? I've got the marvelous Q701, but I'm tempted to pick up another closed can for portable, and I dunno what that'll be.



demonfox said:


> But back to the sound.. So while playing bf3 (best sounding FPS ever created hands down) I was hearing details that I'd never heard before and even though the bass lacked during my first attempt at Dub but it was literally my first attempt (I'll try it again later tonight) but for gaming the bass was exactly what it was supposed to be, tight, quick, and didn't get in the way of the rest of the sound. I was more impressed the moment I put on my HIFI 780's and was disgusted by how muddy everything sounded compared to the 240 mk II. I'll be doing a lot of different test to see how they compare in different music generes and more BF3,but I'll tell you what, my wife and wallet better hope I don't find a better pair of AKG's that have a punchier bottom because I'm very intrigued at what I've heard so far.
> If anyone out there knows of such a pair please let me know!
> Thanks,
> D




Pretty sure from the Freq graphs that the K240 is the bassiest AKG headphone, with a +9 mid-bass boost. I've read that much beyond that boosted level, notes get the bass texture smoothed out. Give your new purchase some time for you to get used to them, and if you still feel uninspired by the bass strength you still have your old very bassy headphones for those genres you think fit it.
Dubstep has massively over mixed bass anyway, fun sometimes but it's all power but no texture since its a synthetically created note. I have 46 dubstep songs, but I would only consider 6 of them to be musical while the rest sound cliché and blur together. Which songs do you like?

I know these AKG are your first foray into headphones above about $30, but I have the Q701 and I'm just curious about the rest of AKG's headphones. I'm going to get around to a detailed review of my Q701 one of these days (It's already half written), and I've held back on selling the rest of my 'phones cuz I want to add a comparative review first. To inform other people. Wonder if the K142 or K172 models are suitable for portable use?


----------



## Ztrains

The bad thing is the price on the velour pads, it's the same price as the headphones themselves :/


----------



## Ztrains

Also, for anyone with the Samson sr850, does it seem the left ear clamps down more or is it just my ears/headphones.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

New question: If I use the Turtle Beach or Mixamp Pro accompanied with either a Fiio E7 or an A/V receiver, would it help decrease the amount of hiss and increase overall sound quality or would it just make things worse?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jmanofisrael said:


> New question: If I use the Turtle Beach or Mixamp Pro accompanied with either a Fiio E7 or an A/V receiver, would it help decrease the amount of hiss and increase overall sound quality or would it just make things worse?


 
   
  You can reduce hiss if you turn up the mixamp/DSS to high volume, and then lower it through the external amp and listen to it.  As for improving overall sound quality, from my experience only desktop amps have a _chance _of doing that. 
   
  If you have hard to drive headphones, they can improve with a second amp, but hard to drive headphones shouldn't pick up the hiss to begin with.


----------



## rabinzero

I remember reading somewhere in this thread that someone tried out the new Tritton AX720 7.1 decoder box and said they were disappointed.  I forget why though.  I've been very happy with my Tritton AX720 (5.1) but would like to go 7.1 if possible and it makes a big difference with directional sounds


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> I've been very happy with my Tritton AX720 (5.1) but would like to go 7.1 if possible and it makes a big difference with directional sounds


 
   
  It doesn't.  Not with Dolby Headphone anyways.  I doubt you could hear any difference.

 Any extra channels are interpolated as Dolby Digital (and optical) can only carry 5.1 anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^What he said. The old ass wired Mixamp with 5.1, and the Mixamp 5.8 with 7.1 have the same exact processing. It's just BS marketing.


----------



## ZzBOG

Hey guys, so I kinda pulled the trigger and got the Astro Mixamp pro (new, wired one). Hooked it to PS3 via optical and ran around some BF3 maps for a while. I am using Sennheiser HD25-II and I must say I am far from being impressed.
  I was planning to get Q701 but now I have some second thoughts.. Can someone say, will the experience improve enough to justify a purchase of new headphones? I am doing this for the sake of increasing the immenseness of experience.. but if the difference will be just a bit clearer sound than it's not worth it. If I will really get a crazy soundstage an hear helicopters flying above my head, then definitely yes..
   
  In other words if it will be like going from just $100 headphones to $200 headphones, then no. If there is more to it, then yeah, I will jump in...
   
  Never used open headphones though.. IEMS and closed ones only.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your problem is that your using the HD25-II which is closed and portable, possibly losing out the needed soundstage and positioning to let Dolby Headphone do it's job. Also, you're demoing Battlefield 3 which is NOT GREAT to demo with Dolby Headphone. Those BF games have NEVER had good positional audio. The sound quality from Dice is great, but they don't do positioning very well.


Also, make sure to NEVER use the Headphone settings in those games, as that is only when you're plugging headphones into basic devices without processing.

You might wanna test out more games.

Also check the dolby headphone vid on the first post (watch it in BASIC stereo, as the vid is already processed), and go to the time I mentioned. If you still can't get positional audio that sounds like that vid, then I'm sorry for you.

The difference between basic stereo and Dolby Headphone is HUGE, and it shouldn't just sound 'clearer'. It should sound completely different.


----------



## ZzBOG

cool that answers it I guess )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yes, the difference between closed and open, is pretty staggering. Open headphones have a very distinctive sound, usually way more dimensional than closed ones, that sound closed in and congested for the most part. It's very hard to get a closed headphone that can compete with open ones in Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having been without the D7000 for a while now, I can say that I'm glad it's not here. I've been enjoying the Pro 900 quite a bit lately, and not having the D7000 next to it to show it's weaknesses compared to it, make it a better can to me.
Sometimes having multiple cans is a double edged sword, as you'll be missing one aspect of the sound from one, and vice versa. I can just literally put on the Pro 900 and rock out, faults or not.

Of course, my HE400 arrives this Wednesday, which may make the Pro 900 obsolete. :rolleyes:

Despite the Pro 900 having it's flaws, they really are one of those cans that I'd recommend as an all rounder. However, it's biggest issue is it's treble. Playing Uncharted 3, some weapons sound pretty damn harsh with every round fired. Had to lower the volume some for those weapons.


----------



## Evshrug

What game has impressed you most with positional audio, just curious?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> What game has impressed you most with positional audio, just curious?


 

 For me it is Dead Island that game creeps me the hell out.


----------



## AxelCloris

This may be just me, but Mass Effect 3 really impressed me with positional queues. When I was playing single player, and my 2 companions (Tali/Garrus) were behind me talking, it was awesome hearing when they moved left and right behind me, and I couldn't see them at all. Also really nice in combat because I tended to ignore the minimap and just go based off sound. When I heard an enemy shouting or screeching, I could pick out where they were without looking.


----------



## Evshrug

I remember being very impressed with the Occlusion in Halo 3 and Reach, I'll have to try them again now that I have a surround option, for the first time. I bet most horror games put a lot of stock in their sound, so I'll have to dig out Alan Wake. And portal 2.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> This may be just me, but Mass Effect 3 really impressed me with positional queues. When I was playing single player, and my 2 companions (Tali/Garrus) were behind me talking, it was awesome hearing when they moved left and right behind me, and I couldn't see them at all. Also really nice in combat because I tended to ignore the minimap and just go based off sound. When I heard an enemy shouting or screeching, I could pick out where they were without looking.


 

 This is a really great one too. I love my mixamp setup in multiplayer.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> What game has impressed you most with positional audio, just curious?


 
   
  For me, it's the Thief series, hands-down. The sound design in those games still remains unrivaled out of everything I've heard, in large part due to how sound plays a key role in the gameplay. You don't want the guards to hear you, after all, and you also want to know where they are without having to see them.
   
  Unreal Tournament also has great positioning, though I do make sure to install the Old Unreal patch with the OpenAL audio renderer. While there is a sound fall-off at longer distances (it's intrinsic to the engine no matter what audio renderer you use), anything reasonably close is easy to pinpoint.
   
  The Battlefield series also excels in positioning...well, only up to 2142. Bad Company 2's software audio mixing is terrible from a positional standpoint, and going by Mad Lust Envy's statements, BF3 doesn't fare any better. But the first four games (BF1942, BF: Vietnam, BF2, BF2142) are great, so long as you use ALchemy on the first two (they use DirectSound3D).


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

really love this post, I am brand new here because of this thread and have a few things to ask and say. I recently had money to buy a set of headphones and got the Corsair Vengeance 1500 7.1 headset because it was relatively cheap and the best of a bad lot, but I was told they are horrible. To me they sounded great, had fairly good positional audio and the bass was Ok, it was tight more than boomy and worked fine.
  But I wanted something more so I saw a second hand set of Logitech Z5500 speakers and got them and while they're fine speakers I find the Subwoofer to completely drown out EVERYTHING. The bass is almost constant with them and overpowering all the time and if I lower the sub it almost disappears so there is no middle ground with it. That and the front speakers have some low sound when playing the likes of BF3. 
   
  So all said and done I would like to know what you guys and TC especially think are THE best headphones for gaming? What I want in them are good positional audio as most of my time is in Battlefield 3 and I love horror games so Localisation is a must. And secondly I want really good bass. I know you have to sort of compromise between the two with headphones but what has the best of both? If I can find a good set I am going to sell the things I listed above


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, Battlefield 3 does not have good positional audio. The sound quality itself is amazing, but they didn't do actual cues well. Doesn't matter what headphones you use.


As far as what's the best game (that I remember with amazing positional audio), I too have to say Mass Effect 3. That game really just got it well. (As did Mass Effect 2). Can't remember what else at the moment.

*I know what I have to do. From this point on, I'm going to make a list of games that work well with Dolby Headphone, as well as specifics. Like for instance: Black Ops has mediocre performance in the campaign and online. That is, until you put on the Ninja perk (especially Ninja Pro). Then the game works well with Dolby headphone. I won't be able to go back and remember all the games that worked well, but I will try my best. I will also try and put up a list of games that DON'T work well with Dolby Headphone. One recent example is Uncharted 3. No matter what setting I used, the positional cues were not impressive, at all.

These lists will be added to the first post, at the END of the post. It's going to be a very small list right now, but will grow as I play/remember the games. Will most likely come once I update the guide with the HE400 soon.*

To everyone testing positional cues on the Mixamp, remember that being too close to the origin of a sound, won't sound good. You have to put some distance to let rear sound placement sound like its behind you. If you're too close, it will sound like its in your head. Dolby Headphones weakness is sounds directly behind you from close range.

I mean it in that it takes some practice to learn how to discern close rear sound cues. I remember having to wait a few moments to learn this when I first got my Mixamp. I'd play CoD4 and would rush ahead, only to find out there was someone behind me. I blame the A40s though, as when I got the AD700, that didn't happen.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To everyone testing positional cues on the Mixamp, remember that being too close to the origin of a sound, won't sound good. You have to put some distance to let rear sound placement sound like its behind you. If you're too close, it will sound like its in your head. Dolby Headphones weakness is sounds directly behind you from close range.
> I mean it in that it takes some practice to learn how to discern close rear sound cues. I remember having to wait a few moments to learn this when I first got my Mixamp. I'd play CoD4 and would rush ahead, only to find out there was someone behind me. I blame the A40s though, as when I got the AD700, that didn't happen.


 
  This is exactly what happens with my Vengeance 1500 headset. Stuff would happen behind me and it sounded like it was in the front and when you go to turn your ears adjust to where the sound actually is and it really confuses you for a moment. 
  Still trying to find out what is the best headphones all round though for positional and quality, with an emphasis on good bass. Or even a really good set quality wise that could use virtual surround


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How much are you willing to spend? I assume you don't have a dolby headphone device and are playing on PC. You might wanna get one of those soundcards first, I think Xonar has the DG (and others) which is cheap and has Dolby Headphone. What's your budget? Good emphasis on bass and good positional cues, would be the DT990 Pro, and to a lesser extent, the DT770 Pro 80 as a closed alternative.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How much are you willing to spend? I assume you don't have a dolby headphone device and are playing on PC. You might wanna get one of those soundcards first, I think Xonar has the DG (and others) which is cheap and has Dolby Headphone. What's your budget? Good emphasis on bass and good positional cues, would be the DT990 Pro, and to a lesser extent, the DT770 Pro 80 as a closed alternative.


 
  I have an Asus Xonar DX ordered due to arrive tomorrow or the next day so I have that base covered. Yeah I've seen you saying some good things about the DT990 pro and it might be a viable option depending on how much money I can get together. If I can sell the speakers and the headset I have now I could be spending up to 300 euro on the next set of headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I kinda wanna retry the DT990 Pros, but I'm afraid the bass will bother me like before. It's odd. the Pro 900's have a lot of the same type of bass, but it doesn't hurt me.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Which is what exactly? too boomy/overpowering?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The issue isn't as simple to identify. I've had massively boomy headphones (i.e. XB700), and very strong ones (i.e. XB500) that don't hurt my ears. It's just something about the way it hits that gives me a headache.

Honestly the bass on the DT990 Pros is like an open Pro 900. I'd have to test them side by side to say for sure, but both are high quality, but very emphasized bass.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

What are your thoughts on using Virtual Surround headphones as opposed to using straight Stereo Headphones for gaming? Would you sacrifice situational awareness to an extent for really good quality sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think those headsets that have the virtual surround processing built into them are fine from the processing standpoint, however, the headset's innate sound quality is going to be lacking quite a bit than using a legit pair of headphone and using an external virtual surround device.

From personal experience, headsets offer a simple solution to people not willing to do their homework or deal with extra work into optimizing their sound.

You sacrifice a lot of spatial awareness by playing in basic stereo, regardless of headphone. 

There have been many times when people have stated a headphone has fantastic imaging, that doesn't need extra processing from virtual surround device. Yet, all these people (ALL of them that I've heard mention this), have never taken the time to even play with such processing. 

To me, you're playing with 'blinders' if you're playing in basic stereo.

I always tell these people to give Dolby headphone a run for at least a week with their favorite games. After that week, go back to stereo and see if you think it can keep up with how much more open and natural the positional cues are with virtual surround.


----------



## Evshrug

seanmcloughlin7 said:


> really love this post, I am brand new here because of this thread and have a few things to ask and say. I recently had money to buy a set of headphones and got the Corsair Vengeance 1500 7.1 headset because it was relatively cheap and the best of a bad lot, but I was told they are horrible. To me they sounded great, had fairly good positional audio and the bass was Ok, it was tight more than boomy and worked fine.
> But I wanted something more so I saw a second hand set of Logitech Z5500 speakers and got them and while they're fine speakers I find the Subwoofer to completely drown out EVERYTHING. The bass is almost constant with them and overpowering all the time and if I lower the sub it almost disappears so there is no middle ground with it. That and the front speakers have some low sound when playing the likes of BF3.
> 
> So all said and done I would like to know what you guys and TC especially think are THE best headphones for gaming? What I want in them are good positional audio as most of my time is in Battlefield 3 and I love horror games so Localisation is a must. And secondly I want really good bass. I know you have to sort of compromise between the two with headphones but what has the best of both? If I can find a good set I am going to sell the things I listed above




I read a few reviews of the Corsair Vengeance 1500 and Logitech speakers you mentioned; seems that universally that headset model is not very strong at surround sound. Then again, everyone skipped 5.1 surround Dolby Headphone mode, so maybe that works better? It was Tom's Hardware top pick of their surround headsets round up (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/surround-sound-headset-benchmark,3125-12.html). Did you try digging into the software settings to see if you could improve your experience?

Regardless, it's a closed headphone of limited versatility that is only Corsair's sophomore effort. Considering the corsair sells for $80 on Amazon and the near-field surround speakers from Logitech cost between $340 and $400, you could probably get around $350 for both. Assuming you could find buyers. No offense, but I personally never understood the appeal of watching movies on a computer screen with near-field speakers in a surround set-up, when headphones can do private sessions so well and TV + home theater setup does the whole cinema experience better. I did have movie nights in my dorm on a computer monitor and little active computer speakers, but that was more out of temporary space limitations and I didnt throw a lot of money at it. /thinking out loud.

If you can put $300-$400 dollars to an audio setup, you can have a pretty good time  NamelessPFG has a great guide for pc gaming, you can find the right sound card solution for you, then you can pick a headphone from Mad Lust's guide here from your remaining budget. My experiences are mostly with the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and AKG Q701 headphones, both are fantastic with great soundstage for their price range. One headphone I have not heard but HAVE seen well-favored for years, and falls between the other two headphones I mentioned price-wise, is the AKG K240 series. So many positive reviews for all three, you could take those suggestions easily with happy results. You definitely ought to invest in the sound card or external amp/DAC first before you consider your budget for headphones, so you can get the most out of them.

Good luck!


----------



## Evshrug

seanmcloughlin7 said:


> I have an Asus Xonar DX ordered due to arrive tomorrow or the next day so I have that base covered. Yeah I've seen you saying some good things about the DT990 pro and it might be a viable option depending on how much money I can get together. If I can sell the speakers and the headset I have now I could be spending up to 300 euro on the next set of headphones.



Oh, I see.

I didn't suggest the DT990 Pro, just because I haven't heard them. Mad obviously has owned both the DT990 and Q701 (at the same time for comparison sake? Dunno...), from what I gather he finds them both superior at their price range, except that the DT990 has a more V-shaped sound signature he prefers, while I like the way the Q701 doesn't strongly emphasize one frequency range over another. So season to taste; what I gather from what you've said is you like boosted bass and the DT990 may be more exciting to you. 

Anyway, good luck again!


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

To me virtual surround does a pretty decent job for what it sets out to do. The vengeance 1500s have 7.1 virtual surround,even though it's more of a 5.1 sound as the 7.1 really doesn't add anything, still sounds more or less the same and there seems to be no "back" to them. Like front sounds great and panning left and right is very smooth and convincing but pan to the back and the sound kind of shoots so to speak, it almost feels as if it goes back to the front or as mad said feels like it's in you head and looping back to the front again can be almost dizzying. I had a surround test for BF3 setup and closed my eyes to see if I could find a flaming car again just on audio alone and the rear area is what let me down the most. But they have a surprisingly good bass response to them which I was not expecting. A bonus from using such big drivers I guess. 
   
  I had an Onkyo home theater setup before in 5.1 and it sounded great for my PS3 and for movies and most games but I sold it due to being too loud for neighbours, I since moved house and built a PC instead of the PS3 so I thought I wanted a 5.1 speaker set again.  that's why I bought the Z5500 speakers second hand for cheap. But I find myself liking a good proper headphone sound more now because you can just hear a lot more subtlety in games and positional awareness is much better. Speakers are good for movies but headphones for me are better for games and that's mostly what I use them for. 
   
  I am a noob when it comes to sound cards though cos the Onkyo set had a receiver so it was just HDMI from PS3 to receiver and then receiver to TV and it was really simple, so I have a question about PC and sound cards. Will the sound card be able to do virtual surround through software like the Corsair headset does? and make headphones open up more soundstage wise?
  EDIT: Oh and the DT990s on my usual site are actually cheaper than the 880s. The 990s are open and the 880s are semi open, Which sounds better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 880s vs 990s is more of a neutral vs fun sound. One is not better than the other, so much as they are different. Think of the 990s as a DT880 with more bass, treble, soundstage, and better positioning. The DT990 Pros however are considerably different than the DT880s, due to an even more bassy sound.

BTW guys, I have edited the first post a little, adding a fuller impression on the M50s, and cleaning up some listings with less personal bias, errors, etc.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

So I have decided I will probably go with a set of DT 990s or DT 880s when I go to buy next. But I find it odd that where I will buy has the 990 pros for considerably less than the 880 pros and I have no idea why, from what you were saying the 990s were the better so i thought they would have been the more expensive. I have decided I can compromise some situational awareness and positioning in the headphones if they have superior sound quality overall with an emphasis on more bass. 
  Check them here and tell me which of the two is better please :
DT 990 Pro Open back
DT 880 Pro Semi Open
  BTW you guys are all helping me and teaching me a lot already, thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just to let you know, the 880s have that same problem where sounds behind you don't sound like they are behind you. The DT990 would be better in that regard.

I can't guarantee you'll love the 880s for gaming.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just to let you know, the 880s have that same problem where sounds behind you don't sound like they are behind you. The DT990 would be better in that regard.
> I can't guarantee you'll love the 880s for gaming.


 
  Well if it had really good overall quality I wouldn't mind so much I guess. I just want to buy something and not regret it like I have doen with the Vengeance 1500s


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> I have decided I can compromise some situational awareness and positioning in the headphones if they have *superior sound quality overall* with an *emphasis on more bass*.


 
   
  Re: Superior sound quality
  Depends what you mean by "superior". See MLE's reply on this same point above.
   
  Re: Bass.
  MLE, the 990 has more bass than 880, right? But more treble too?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the DT990 Premiums sound like the 880s with more bass and treble, same mids. Due to the bass and treble being more emphasize, will make mids sound more distant, but in a side by side, the mids are similar in quality.

The DT990 Pros though have a bigger boost in bass over the Premiums, making them more basshead-friendly. Also, due to the bass being so big, the treble isn't as jarring to the ears as the Premiums. They are still overly prominent in treble, but won't sound as uncomfortable to the ears.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Sounds like the 990 it is then. But do you have any idea why the 880s where more expensive on that site I linked? Numerically and from what you said it sounds like the 990s should cost more


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Price fluctuate quite a bit. In any case, supply and demand?


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Another question. What is the difference between open and closed headphones other than ambient noises?


----------



## TMRaven

Open headphones have a characteristic open sound in comparison to closed-back.  It's hard to describe the difference unless you've gone from months with an open back and go to a closed back, or you have had months with a closed back and go to an open back.  I find the difference is mainly in their soundstage representation.  Not in raw size and depth per say, but the opens usually layer things better, and they're not cavernous sounding like closed backs, which tend to meet a hypothetical wall and not go beyond that point.


----------



## Evshrug

seanmcloughlin7 said:


> Another question. What is the difference between open and closed headphones other than ambient noises?



Sound waves are obviously trapped in a sealed or closed headphone, usually resulting in more rumble bass and stronger body presence, if you take my meaning. The "air" like quality of open headphones may have just as much bass, but it's like a speaker placed in the middle of a room rather than in a corner to acoustically amplify it. This allows the soundstage of open headphones to "float" out in the open and usually extend out further... but all this is a rather subjective attempt to describe, you gotta feel it yourself to understand. I feel that closed/sealed headphones make a compromise on ultimate sound quality to trade for less noise leaking out and less ambient noise getting in. Some people like closed headphone sound better, but it doesn't sound as natural to me.


----------



## TMRaven

Good point on the bass.  Open backs usually have poor bass extension because they can't adequately pressurize the area on your ear.  It takes the likes of planar magnetics and their large, power drivers, or really well engineered dynamics, to get solid bass extension.
   
  I think-- everything equal and ideal-- a closed headphone has just as good a chance of sounding great as an open headphone, but nobody really takes time to properly dampen their housing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990, and ESPECIALLY the DT990 Pro really must do some serious black magic to make the bass as strong and as they are, despite being quite open. The DT990 Pro is one of the bassiest headphones I have ever heard, regardless of open vs closed.

Oh yes, Sean, the other reason why the DT880 Pros are more expensive than the DT990 Pros is more than likely because the 880's outer grill is high quality like the Premium version, whereas the DT990 Pros use some pretty retro looking black plastic grills more than likely taken from a pre-2003 DT990, instead of the silver mtallic-looking slits on the Premium version..


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

So open vs closed would be like a sub woofer in the middle of a room as opposed to a corner where it can become boomier? Makes sense and the vengeance 1500s are closed and it helps the bass a bit. 
  So the difference in price was just build quality? I think those were the premiums they just don't have it written, What's the difference between the pro and the premium headphones then other than build quality? and the higher pricetag of course


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually, the Pros are cheaper and are more rugged. The build quality on both the Pros and premiums are superb. It's more like the pros are a little cheaper because they use less aesthetically pleasing parts in the headband, etc. 

Also, the Pros tend to clamp a little more. The Premiums are pretty loose fitting. I prefer the fit on the Pros, as it keeps the headphones from sliding around.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Actually, the Pros are cheaper and are more rugged. The build quality on both the Pros and premiums are superb. It's more like the pros are a little cheaper because they use less aesthetically pleasing parts in the headband, etc.
> Also, the Pros tend to clamp a little more. The Premiums are pretty loose fitting. I prefer the fit on the Pros, as it keeps the headphones from sliding around.


 
  Great, as long as it's not a difference in sound then perfect. The premiums are 100 euro dearer which is a bit ridiculous considering the differences are aesthetic. I will order the 990 pros then in the morning  You guys have been a HUGE help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh no, I was referring to the DT880s. The DT990 pros sound a bit different than the Premiums. The bass is considerably stronger on the Pros. Different enough where I couldn't handle the DT990 pros, but was fine with the Premiums.

However, this is a personal issue, and not one I think anyone else would have. I find the Koss UR40 to have some serious bass bloat, and no one else thinks this. Not to mention, I tried two different UR40s. I thought they had the bass dial at 11.


----------



## Evshrug

tmraven said:


> Good point on the bass.  Open backs usually have poor bass extension because they can't adequately pressurize the area on your ear.  It takes the likes of planar magnetics and their large, power drivers, or really well engineered dynamics, to get solid bass extension.
> 
> I think-- everything equal and ideal-- a closed headphone has just as good a chance of sounding great as an open headphone, but nobody really takes time to properly dampen their housing.




Bass _extension_ isn't the right term, both variants can reach low… but that is besides the point. Enjoy your DT990, maybe you can leave some of your own impressions when you're done


----------



## TMRaven

No, bass extension is the right term, unless you're one of those people that thinks -6 or -10db at 30hz is reaching low.  Only non planar open headphone I've heard so far to have low-bass performance rivaling a closed can has been the DT990, and even that has a good bit of a rolloff from its massive mid-bass hump.


----------



## NamelessPFG

And here I thought that "good bass extension" meant "volume flat and level with the rest of the spectrum all the way down to 20 Hz", which doesn't seem to be possible with most headphones and even most reasonably-priced subwoofers (most start rolling off at 30 Hz)...
   
  As for what actually uses 20 Hz notes to begin with, I've heard that one of Hans Zimmer's movie soundtracks makes extensive use of 20 Hz-something that probably goes missing entirely if you're not in a movie theater or have a studio-grade sound system.


----------



## TMRaven

I think nearly all of his soundtracks have 20hz content, haha.  Not even theaters can represent the 20hz properly.  Flat volume isn't exactly what flat would measure like, since the human ear rolls off in volume down to 20hz, but flat in energy is a good representation (ie very visceral down in the 20hz range)


----------



## Fegefeuer

The DT990 Premium are better in everything, I never need the clamp of the Pros on any headphone. I consider them the best deal for fun, immersive gaming. In Germany they cost like the Q701 and while the Q701 might be better suited for all music needs the DT990 600 is much better with entertainment like movies and games.
   
   
  My T90 just arrived btw, will put them on later today.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

I have been told recently that my soundcard that I ordered could be bad for the DT 990s because it doesn't have an on board amp. I was told to return it for the Xonar DG model instead of the DX I ordered because the DG has an onboard amp for headphones. What do you guys think? 
  I assumed the DX was better cos of the pricing, how essential will the amp be? The DT 990s are the 250 Ohm version if that makes an impact on it


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> I have been told recently that my sound card that I ordered could be bad for the DT 990s because it doesn't have an on board amp. I was told to return it for the Xonar DG model instead of the DX I ordered because the DG has an on-board amp for headphones. What do you guys think?
> I assumed the DX was better cos of the pricing, how essential will the amp be? The DT 990s are the 250 Ohm version if that makes an impact on it


 
  With the Xonar DX powering 250-Ohm headphones, on a volume scale of 1 to 10, max volume would be around 2.5.
  With the Xonar DG (& DGX), you would get 250-Ohm headphones to a volume of 5 to 6.
  I would recommend to keep the Xonar DX because it does have a better DAC and slightly better surround sound then the DG.
   
  For $50 to $65, you can get a Solid State headphone amplifier off eBay (ships from China).
  SMSL SAP-100 ($65)
  SMSL TPA61020A2
   
  Or a Muse ($50-$60) single tube headphone amplifier, sold on Amazon.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

From what I've heard the difference in sound quality between the DG and DX is negligible and not worth the extra 40 euro price tag. If that's the scale of Volume it doesn't sound too good for the DX and seems like it would be quite low


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> From what I've heard the difference in sound quality between the DG and DX is negligible and not worth the extra 40 euro price tag. If that's the scale of Volume it doesn't sound too good for the DX and seems like it would be quite low


 
  I've used a few Xonar DGs and for the price of the card, can not complain about the sound quality, better then on-board.
  The Xonar DX is going to be mostly use by someone with headphones in the 32-Ohm to 80-Ohm range.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

So you would need an amp to drive 250 Ohm headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> So you would need an amp to drive 250 Ohm headphones?


 
  With the Xonar DX (which does not have a head amp.),  you would need an add-on external amplifier.
  The Xonar DG does come with a very basic half-way decent headphone amplifier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Beyerdynamic headphones I've listed all need amplifiers, even the 32ohm. They are misleading, and are as hard to drive as the 250ohm, IMHO.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Beyerdynamic headphones I've listed all need amplifiers, even the 32ohm. They are misleading, and are as hard to drive as the 250ohm, IMHO.


 
  Good thing I decided to change the soundcard then, I think the DX would struggle to power them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't think any of those soundcards would power the Beyers well. You need one with a real built in amplifier (like the Asus Essenbce STX), or one keeps Dolby Headphone when attaching an amp.

I really don't know a lick about soundcards. You should ask Nameless on the PC thread.


----------



## Evshrug

tmraven said:


> No, bass extension is the right term, unless you're one of those people that thinks -6 or -10db at 30hz is reaching low.  Only non planar open headphone I've heard so far to have low-bass performance rivaling a closed can has been the DT990, and even that has a good bit of a rolloff from its massive mid-bass hump.




At first I thought you were the guy asking for advice, till you posted this.

Normally, I would just say "Yeah, I am one of 'those people' that think bass extends as low as I can hear it, but I hear what you're getting at" and not try to convince you to agree with me. You've obviously spent a lot of time and money and come to several practical conclusions based on your experience and taste, and I do not fault you for enjoying the journey. What I write next is for others.

Because this is a highly visible thread, to say "No open headphone has deep bass extension that I've heard except the DT990 and the [even more esoteric] planar headphones" is misleading, to others, because it relies on opinion. FWIR deep bass extension is simply the ability to make audible sub-bass notes, while bass presence describes how strong/prominent/energetic/how loud those notes are. 30hz is indeed very deep and near the peak (valley?) of human hearing.

All headphone bass is produced the same way; the drivers are too small to produce deep bass notes of adaquate _presence_ at the slow vibration speed required, so the drivers are engineered to vibrate at a higher frequency and cancel out part of the sound wave, which results in a lower freq note that can more easily produce desired _presence_, or energy, as you said. For others that don't quite get what I just said, it's basically the same principle that makes active noise-canceling headphones work.

 I admit I don't understand perfectly why closed headphones have greater presense/energy, though I believe that, broadly, it focuses the energy in the direction of your ears. The trick with closed headphones is avoiding extra sound-wave cancellation by: shaping the closed side of the earcups to prevent the waves from cris-crossing, and dampening vibrations from the closed side of the earcups, as you said. Theoretically it is impossible to avoid the problems in designing closed headphones when compared to open headphone's ability to freely eminate sound waves, _but_ they can be designed well enough to be outside human perception. O'Course, +design = +cost, so your value may vary.

[COLOR=FF00AA]Overall point: assuming the same design budget, it is easier to produce Open headphones with greater sound accuracy and detail, while closed headphones have the benefits of some noise isolation and have an easier time producing more deep bass presense or energy at the cost of some accuracy.[/COLOR]



purpleangel said:


> With the Xonar DX powering 250-Ohm headphones, on a volume scale of 1 to 10, max volume would be around 2.5.
> With the Xonar DG (& DGX), you would get 250-Ohm headphones to a volume of 5 to 6.
> I would recommend to keep the Xonar DX because it does have a better DAC and slightly better surround sound then the DG.
> 
> ...




Hmm interesting, I've never heard of those amps or other people recommend them. My interest is piqued, what do you like about them over, say, a FiiO E11 or fred_fred_2004 from eBay's custom built amps in the sub $100 range?

And basically, you're recommending he stay with the Xonar DX and add an amp to plug in between the headphone and sound card, correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> .
> Hmm interesting, I've never heard of those amps or other people recommend them. My interest is piqued, what do you like about them over, say, a FiiO E11 or fred_fred_2004 from eBay's custom built amps in the sub $100 range?
> And basically, you're recommending he stay with the Xonar DX and add an amp to plug in between the headphone and sound card, correct?


 
  The SMSL are designed, built, sold and shipped from China, not something you would want to waste time on shipping back to China for any warranty stuff.
  They are very low cost AC powered solid state amplifiers, my SAP-100 & TPA6120A2 just arrived a few days ago, I've only tested them enough to make sure they power on and work.
  Would I say the Fiio E11 is better, yes, but I'm sure lots of people would like something at their desk that does not need to have the battery swapped in the middle of a game.
  So there is still a lot of testing before I will post my findings on my new amps.
  I've been thinking about ordering one of fred_fred_2004 hybrid tube/cmoy amps, just to test it out.
   
  The Xonar DX/D1 does everything a little better then the DG(X), just the DG(X) powers headphones betters.
  The DX/D1 is a lot like the STX/ST, but without the headphone amp and replaceable op-amps.
   
  So I like the DX/D1 because you can get the "correct" external headphone amplifier to match your headphones.
   
  The E11 works great for someone that needs an amplifier for their DX/D1 and for portable use.
   
  So unless budget is a factor, say with the Xonar DX.


----------



## Tane

Soo I just recently made a forum account I have been lurking the forums for a couple days now reading reviews and this thread. I am currently in search of a good pair of headphones for gaming. I just recently built a brand new PC. I posted a thread here http://www.head-fi.org/t/620021/gaming-headphones but didn't get much feedback. The thing is I have a pair of Astro A40s with the mixamp. I have been reading at most they are "decent" headphones at the most. It looks like I will need a sound card to actually drive a pair of good headphones because from reading this thread the onboard sound DAC sucks. I was planning on picking up Xonar DG or DGX and upgrade to Xonar Essence STX. With a sound card would it actually make the A40s decent? I really want a pair of headphones with good soundstage(assuming this is where you can pinpoint where the noise is coming from?), but also that sensation of immersive feeling. I play all types of games from FPS to RTS to RPGs. I read that the AD700, HD 598, or Takstar 2050 are good starters. Can anyone suggest more or one which fits my needs better?
   
*TLDR;* Have Astro A40 w/ mixamp, good or garbage? Budget ~$300 want full sized headphones for PC gaming. Going to buy either a Xonar DG or DGX with plans to upgrade to Xonar Essence STX with in 1 month.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tane said:


> Soo I just recently made a forum account I have been lurking the forums for a couple days now reading reviews and this thread. I am currently in search of a good pair of headphones for gaming. I just recently built a brand new PC. I posted a thread here http://www.head-fi.org/t/620021/gaming-headphones but didn't get much feedback. The thing is I have a pair of Astro A40s with the mixamp. I have been reading at most they are "decent" headphones at the most. It looks like I will need a sound card to actually drive a pair of good headphones because from reading this thread the onboard sound DAC sucks. I was planning on picking up Xonar DG or DGX and upgrade to Xonar Essence STX. With a sound card would it actually make the A40s decent? I really want a pair of headphones with good soundstage(assuming this is where you can pinpoint where the noise is coming from?), but also that sensation of immersive feeling. I play all types of games from FPS to RTS to RPGs. I read that the AD700, HD 598, or Takstar 2050 are good starters. Can anyone suggest more or one which fits my needs better?
> 
> *TLDR;* Have Astro A40 w/ mixamp, good or garbage? Budget ~$300 want full sized headphones for PC gaming. Going to buy either a Xonar DG or DGX with plans to upgrade to Xonar Essence STX with in 1 month.




The Q701s are your best friend. The level of immersion should make you forget the A40s entirely, though the bass may be a little bit less prominent. I assume you have a newer A40 with improved pads. The older A40s didn't have almost any bass themselves.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE400 is here! Lol, they were horribly misaligned upon opening them. Took a second to align properly. One of the pleather pads had a pressure line, as if it was pressed against something. Not an issue as I won't be using the pleather, but it made the pad look bumpy and uneven. Upon first holding them... man they are quite heavy compared to every other headphone I've owned (including the HE-4). It's a good weight though, makes it feel not cheap. Speaking of pleather, they don't feel too bad. Certainly less contact surface than the Denons, so I find the pads more comfortable on the HE400. I really like the stock canare cable. Not as nice as the cable that came with the HE-4 (with the fabric), but these are more rugged, and less prone to twisting, so I'm happy.

Upon putting them on... they feel lovely on my head. Just like the HE-4, I LOVE this headband style more than any other (with the exception of the Steelseries Siberia V1). The weight is even distributed on my head, so it shouldn't cause long term discomfort. Okay, first listening test, What? I thought these were supposed to be easy to drive? My NFB-5 has never had to go the right side of the volume knob on Low Gain, even with the Q701. My knob is almost a 3 o' clock! Once I set it to high gain, it's down to around 11 o'clock. That's a surprise. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is easy to drive. My NFB-5 has a crapton of power (something like 2.5 watts at 35ohm), so it's crazy just how much it needs on the pot.

Hmm... they're warm, but they don't sound veiled or muddy. In fact, I'd say the warmth is akin to the Q701, just slightly more so. (In comparison, the old K701 I had was noticeably brighter than the Q701). I don't find them too dark. The sound signature puts a smile on my face. 

Obviously not as much bass as my old D7000 and my current Pro 900, but I feel it's a neutral-ish bass (for ME). I'm not sure if it has more bass than the HE-4 though, as I felt the bass on the HE-4 had a lot of authority. This is a fantastic replacement for the Q701 for me. It trades off a bit of the soundstage for more bass. It has a meatier sound. I don't find anything about it being veiled. I see what you guys are saying about the treble. At certain frequencies it sounds smooth, and at others, it's has like the perfect amount of sparkle. So I'm 100% happy with it's treble. Bullet dodged!

The mids are well in tune with the rest of the sound, and it's gonna be quite jarring going back to the Pro 900 in this regard.

So far, it's not going to make my Pro 900s go back. I love the Pro 900s (quite a bit more than I previously expressed, as I was disappointed with them at first), and they excel in bringing out the oomph in EDM (which is my fave genres), but the HE400 is definitely going to be my go to for everything else.

Although the soundstage isn't Q701 size, the HE400s have a pretty good sense of air about them.

All this is with the pleather pads. 

I'm surprised at myself for being able to resist throwing on the velours immediately. The pleather pads really aren't that bad. I wouldn't want the HE400 with pleathers, as they are already hot in the less than 30 minutes I've used them, but they certainly keep cooler than every other pleather padded can I've used, though those have all been closed headphones, trapping in the heat.

Lol, they are super open. They leak worse than the Q701/DT990, and practically everything else I've owned. XD

Chicolom, I think you'd be in love with the HE400.


----------



## Tane

Yeah I have this years A40s so the 2012 model. Alright thanks I am going to look into the Q701s and try them out before I buy I'll either sell off these A40s or give them to my brother.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sound with the velours...

What!? How are these NOT the stock pads? The sound is clearer, and I could swear the bass got just a LITTLE more present. Everything just got a boost of airyness, and is less dark. Seriously, it sounds 95% the same, but a slight tonal shift towards the CLEAR side, yet the bass has a stronger growl. Unexpected. I was literally quite skeptical about the pad swap, yet, there is literally NO reason to use the pleather. NONE.

I would say this is what I expected of the bass, and reminds me of the HE-4's bass.

Serously though, you guys were NOT kidding. The velours really made a difference for the better.

Those who know me, know that I'm not afflicted by new toy syndrome. I was actually expecting to NOT like the HE400. I was very displeased by the Pro 900 at first, and they changed for the better (whether burn in or whatever is subjective, but they are better than when I first got them). The HE400 sounded amazing OUT OF THE GATE, especially with the velours. Considering I just got the He400 and spent the hour with the pleather and swapped to the velour with the same songs... it's quite clear that the pleather has no business being on the HE400. The velours are IT.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The HE400 is here!
> ***snip***
> Chicolom, I think you'd be in love with the HE400.




Lol dangerous words!
Glad you're having a great experience... So these will be your new reference cans? Have you tried them during gaming yet?

Edit: awesome to hear about your velour update. Did those extra pads come with it?


----------



## Evshrug

tane said:


> Yeah I have this years A40s so the 2012 model. Alright thanks I am going to look into the Q701s and try them out before I buy I'll either sell off these A40s or give them to my brother.



Samurai Jack avatar!
Sorry you aren't impressed with your skullca-I mean Astro headphones, but that is consistent with Mad Lust Envy's experience and others. Keep the Mixamp, of course. Is it hooked up via optical cable? If you can try the Q701 before you buy, especially plugged into the Mixamp for Dolby Headphone, I bet you'll be impressed. I absolutely love my Q701s, every day this past week the first thing I do after work is kick off my shoes and listen to my Q's ^___^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I bought them ($15 total off the Hifiman website).

Seriously, I haven't been this impressed by a headphone since the HE-4. The D7000 as amazing as it was (and it's still my fave sound), was initially warmer than I wanted. I grew to love them. The HE400 is just took off in a mad sprint.

I think these are definitely what I consider reference. They define all-rounder. The DT880, Q701, DT990, HE-4 don't stand a chance.

The HE-4 had similar bass, less mids, and more treble. The HE400s treble is what I consider PERFECT. Seriously. the HE-4 was extra sparkly (which I love as well), but technically, the HE400 is definitely the better can.

As nice and full bodied as the Q701 was... the HE400 adds even more excitement and body. It's insane.

I don't think the HE400 will be as good with competitive gaming, and the soundstage is definitely smaller, but it should definitely best the Q701 in fun, as well as in music.


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> FWIR deep bass extension is simply the ability to make audible sub-bass notes


 
   
   
  I guess the AD700 has deep bass extension then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dear god, no.


----------



## AxelCloris

A headphone needs to have bass to extend it...


----------



## Tane

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Samurai Jack avatar!
> Sorry you aren't impressed with your skullca-I mean Astro headphones, but that is consistent with Mad Lust Envy's experience and others. Keep the Mixamp, of course. Is it hooked up via optical cable? If you can try the Q701 before you buy, especially plugged into the Mixamp for Dolby Headphone, I bet you'll be impressed. I absolutely love my Q701s, every day this past week the first thing I do after work is kick off my shoes and listen to my Q's ^___^


 
  Yeah it is hooked up via toslink optical cable to my computers onboard sound. Would I need a soundcard to get the full range out of the q701s? I will keep the mixamp but the A40 have got to go.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You might wanna ask Nameless on the Pc thread (on the first post). I'm sure he can really help you out.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, first listening test, What? I thought these were supposed to be easy to drive? My NFB-5 has never had to go the right side of the volume knob on Low Gain, even with the Q701. My knob is almost a 3 o' clock! Once I set it to high gain, it's down to around 11 o'clock. That's a surprise. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is easy to drive. My NFB-5 has a crapton of power (something like 2.5 watts at 35ohm), so it's crazy just how much it needs on the pot.


 
  Huh, my HE-500's don't even need 12 o'clock on low, don't remember how I had my NFB-5 set when I had the 400's though.  
   
  They leak so much because they essentially play both ways, even before any reflections the same amount of sound is sent out as is sent in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My bad, maybe it was the first song I played. The Low Gain now is at about 1 o clock.

Honestly though, these headphones are just frigging amazing. What a surprise.

For those who love the Q701... the HE400 is an upgrade in every sense of the word, other than soundstage size.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Any chance you'll review the HE-400 for gaming purposes?
   
  I know it'll be too much for the Mixamp alone given your sensitivity statements, but I'm sure you have an additional amp that you could attach to it to drive the HE-400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apparently, the Mixamp will be able to power them alone. I haven't tested this yet, but you can bet every penny the HE400s are going to be put through the gaming ringer, even if I have to buy an amp. I was waiting on the ODA... :rolleyes:


----------



## Eric_C

I wonder if anyone will weigh on Astro's new A50. All-in-one for US$ 300: the A40's drivers, and the 5.8 system built into the headset. Not too shabby.
   
  Are there any comparisons on it vs Razer's Chimaera 5.1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know that Joe (akaTRENT) did a review on Engadget. Seems to have some issues with audio cutting in and out, which isn't an issue with the 5.8.

Also, It's not the same exact thing as the 5.8. It's using KLEER technology, instead of whatever the 5.8 used. Sad, considering the 5.8's wireless tech was damn good.


----------



## Eric_C

Dang, I must have missed that. Thanks MLE.


----------



## calpis

Here's one review of the A50 which I only glossed over.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/23/3168539/astro-a50-wireless-gaming-headset-review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait... Skullcandy is Astro's new parent company?

:eek:

And again they decide to not add in a second toslink input. What is wrong with them? Jesus.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wait... Skullcandy is Astro's new parent company?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's like when I found out Ultrasone made an Alienware headset


----------



## Evshrug

tmraven said:


> I guess the AD700 has deep bass extension then.



Yes, I can hear deep bass notes in my AD700 that were simply inaudible on typical listening devices such as apple earbuds or laptop speakers. Is it strong bass? Definitely no, the AD700s are bass light. And I wouldn't recommend them to a basshead. Do you really disagree with any of that, or was the glib remark simply a reaction to a different perspective? That's rhetorical, I don't really care, so let's not start something hmm?

Tane,
Try the headphone first with your current setup, and see if it works well enough for you. I asked before, and I think the optical out is sending a digital signal to your Mixamp, so a new soundcard should have little effect. NamelessPFG knows this better than I though, maybe he can clarify.

Mad,
I'm not seriously considering another headphone today, still gotta clear out the non-keepers and I'm still settling in to the satisfying upgrade to the Q701, but what kind of price is expected for those HE400s? I ask because I found an offer that seems too good to be true: http://tgas.winbootsugg.com/hifiman-he400-planar-driver-high-efficiency-headphones-electronics_p374.html?offer_id=B007ZG32I4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got mine for $360 off Moon Audio with a coupon someone gave me (expired). The velour pads cost me $15 shipped, and shipping was like $18 (3 day shipping).

They are usually $400 though.

The link doesn't work.

And don't feel too bad. I highly doubt they can compare to the Q701 in terms of positional cues, air, and competitive gaming.

I'm gonna venture a guess and say they are about a 7 for competitive, 8 for fun, just off what I heard of their signature in music, and soundstage size.


----------



## Evshrug

It's the third and fourth link when you google he 400 headphone and click shopping, does this link work for you? http://lens.winbootsugg.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1248&offer_id=B007TM58BI
It loaded slow for me... but it says the price is Under $150 *:O*
Maybe it has like $200 shipping charges, lol! 


Edit: oh I don't feel bad at all, I'm very pleased with the Q's! I don't need to hang around anymore, but I'm just curious about the headphone gaming thread's developments


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The links don't work for some reason.

Hell, I hang around simply because I like to help, though there have been a few times when I've taken breaks for months. It depends on where I work. I tend to post a lot when I have a lot of free time at work, though I do post a lot while at home and listening to music.


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yes, I can hear deep bass notes in my AD700 that were simply inaudible on typical listening devices such as apple earbuds or laptop speakers. Is it strong bass? Definitely no, the AD700s are bass light. And I wouldn't recommend them to a basshead. Do you really disagree with any of that, or was the glib remark simply a reaction to a different perspective? That's rhetorical, I don't really care, so let's not start something hmm?


 
   
   
  It was a little of a satyrical remark, but nothing to be taken irritably.  Just a little funny that our definitions differ so much.  For what it's worth, even an apple earbud can probably extend down to 20hz, but maybe at like -40db.  A bookshelf speaker rated at 50hz on a +/- 3db basis could probably do the same as well, but again, at a very low volume.  I like my bass extension with the same relative linearity.  There's a difference between strong bass and extension in my book as well, like a Grado, known for its punchy and strong mid-bass but has a large sub-bass rolloff.  A also happen to think the AD700s have a pretty acceptable mid-bass as well, it's very tight and controlled, present, but not very visceral.
   
  Anyways, semantics aside.  I hope the HE-400 has at least one or two points higher somewhere than the HE-4!  7 for competitive and 8 for fun is what the HE-4 got, but I remember a good part of that 7 was based off just how hard it was to get sufficient volume out of the HE-4 with the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I'm not comparing scores, rather it's own merits. It takes a lot to get an 8. The Hifimans don't tend to have the best soundstage, which keep it from getting a great score for competitive, rather stay between good and great. perhaps a 7.5 is coming.

My 7's are 'Good'.

The online community as a whole seem to think anything below an 8 is mediocre. I don't judge that way. 6 is decent, 7 is good, 8 is great, 9 is fantastic.


----------



## TMRaven

I dig that rating system too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, looks like the HE400 might be a 8.5 for both!

Too early to tell, but signs are VERY promising.


----------



## TMRaven

How's the volume for you out of the mixamp?  The jump to 8.5, =O  What's making them perform so well in gaming?  I havn't tired them exclusively for gaming yet since I sold my mixamp a while back to a friend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The volume is fine. About as much as I usually need out of the Pro 900, maybe just a little more.

The HE400 so far has shown to be very well balanced for gaming and very, VERY detailed. The treble is also crisp, but non-fatiguing. The bass is powerful when called for, making them just phenomenal for all forms of gaming. The positioning in Black Ops, so far has been absolutely spot on, and it really does pair well with Dolby headphone.

This is the headphone that the DT880s SHOULD have been, if they got positioning right.

So yes, this may very well be the best open balanced headphone I have used that more than satisfies for every single purpose without any actual tradeoffs (no lack of bass, mids, or treble) or any issues (harshness, boominess, etc).

This sounds like a glowing impression. So far, it's glowing for a reason. I haven't heard a headphone that has absolutely no issues when gaming. I mean ZERO.

You know how the PC360 is well balanced though isn't exactly exciting? Well, the HE400 is well balanced AND very exciting. It's like the PC360 to the 10th power.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The links don't work for some reason.
> Hell, I hang around simply because I like to help, though there have been a few times when I've taken breaks for months. It depends on where I work. I tend to post a lot when I have a lot of free time at work, though I do post a lot while at home and listening to music.


 
  Interesting, tried the links from my home computer, they don't work on my computer either. Seems the only way to get to the page is to literally google the headphone and click through the shopping portal. It's too sketchy to believe anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, only buy new headphones from authorized dealers.

Well, it seems the HE400 can be ran off the Vita, but at max volume, it's still low level listening. I have no doubts an ipod can play them loudly though. The Vita has a pretty weak internal amp.


----------



## calpis

Both the Vita and 3DS are pretty weak. I plugged in the 3DS at full volume into my mstage to play Theatrhythm and still had to turn up the volume way above what I have the knob setup for my pc.I was like around 85% volume on the mstage when I usually have it at around 40-50% for pc use.
   
  Also, I have a feeling that I'd enjoy the HE400 a lot (I love the ortho sound) and could get them by selling off a few of my headphones but I'm looking at those 27" korean ips monitors right now  and they're in the same price range :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis! Yeah. You would definitely love the HE400. Sell that Pro 2900 and get the HE400 (and velours)! You won't look back! 

Man, I really want a clamshell type 1080p screen. Just waiting on a company to make one. Like a laptop without the actual computer guts, and hdmi inputs. No, not that GAEMS nonsense.

If/when portable Blu-Ray players come out with 1080p screens and HDMI inputs, I'm sold.


----------



## calpis

The thing I started doing was wearing the older style Microsoft wireless mics and wearing my 2900 over it. I do get a little pain on my ear lobe after like am hour though. I also started hooking up my receiver's headphones jack to mstage for some added oomph.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, the vocals on the HE400 are like WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than on the Pro 900. I mean... DAMN. I know I've said that I don't mind sacrificing mids a little for more bass, but when mids are this good... it's hard to sit here and say that with a straight face. The vocals are SWEET.

But when I play my mostly instrumental tracks... man something about the Pro 900's bass that just makes them so worthwhile. 

I'm sitting here, really should be sleeping... but it's hard to put these down. h34r:

My HE400 with velours... man, these things are ALIVE and swinging for the fences.

Hearing them side by side with the Pro 900, and they sound infinitely more airy than the Pro 900. There is the perfect amount of sparkle, where the Pro 900 has a metallic twinge to it's treble at it's extreme upper end. Those who know me, know that I'm a bit of a treblehead (I loved my DT990s which are like super treble heavy), and I don't find the treble to be dark at all on the HE400, just more realistic.

The vocals are so lovely, it makes the Pro 900's vocals seem like they're coming from the other end of the street. It's crazy what a difference there is in the mids.

The bass is surely not close to the Pro 900s or D7000s, but man, it's what I consider just right where it should be for reference cans. Like this is how I feel that this is where bass is mastered. It's not lacking technically, and can hit right when a song calls for it.


I don't know how these are 'dark', but I'm not hearing it. Perhaps with the pleather pads, they were certainly warmer and less airy, but not with the velours. The clarity was definitely improved, and with it came a slight tonal shift towards more brightness than with the stock pads, yet still wonderfully organic and meaty.

There is so much air and space in the instruments, I have no problems with it's soundstage either.

Honestly, I don't think I could go back to dynamics after this. Planar magnetics just have this.. sound...it's awe-inspiring. Like having speakers strapped to your head, and not like a standard headphone. I was in awe with the HE-4 back when I had them, but I surely must have forgot down the line just how superior planars are in portraying sound than dynamics.

Oh yes, I listen moderately high (not extremely so), and I guess at lower volumes it can sound darker than how I'm describing, yet still magnificent.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I told you you would like them and notice the pad differences. 
   
  T90 Tesla Power!
   
  Didn't have much time. Tonight I will be testing this thing thoroughly.
   
  What I noticed from the first hour. Very comfortable and well built. Extremely detailed representation with huge soundstage. Bass goes lower than DT990, in fact I don't consider it fair to compare this with the DT990 as they simply do not match these headphones except being noticable for midbass. More later.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Excels at midrange and vocals? Now I have to audition the HE-400 at some point. It's like you're trying to get me to buy it! (But at $400, I could just buy another SR-Lambda...)
   
  My only concern is long-term comfort; it's said that they're a bit heavy, albeit not Audez'e heavy. Is this the sort of headphone you could wear for hours on end?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The vocals aren't forward, its right where it should be, I'd say. If anything can be said about the HE400 (with velours), its that its very natural sounding, but exciting. Simply has to be heard to be believed. Not neutral, NATURAL. If you have $420 for the cans and the velours, I highly doubt anything compares.


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The vocals aren't forward, its right where it should be, I'd say. If anything can be said about the HE400 (with velours), its that its very natural sounding, but exciting. Simply has to be heard to be believed. Not neutral, NATURAL. If you have $420 for the cans and the velours, I highly doubt anything compares.


 
   
  AFAIK just buy the cans for $400, and then immediately send Head Direct customer service an email requesting them to ship your pair with velours instead of pleather, and they will comply. No need to spend the extra bucks. (Assuming the purchase is straight from Head Direct and not from online retailers)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would have done that, but I bought them off Moon Audio, with a temp coupon code.

At least I was able to compare the sonic differences in the pleather vs velour.

To clarify on the HE400's mids... they are the most realistic vocals I have heard on any phone. Seriously. Its incredible to hear.

Sure, some phones like the HD598, ESW9 have forward mids, but it was unnaturally up front. The HE400s places it in front of you, but not in your face. The Q701 has lovely, natural mids too (slight more forward, but not unnaturally so), but not as full bodied as the HE400.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

So what are some drawbacks to the HE400s? All I've seen so far is praise but there must be a catch


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First, it's not exactly lightweight. It's quite hefty. However, the style of headband that it has, evenly distributes the weight so there is no real pressure to the head. It can be worn comfortably all day. Still, it is heavy and you will notice this when holding them.

Second, while they aren't too hard to drive, they definitely scale with amping. You will want a good amp for these to get the most out of them, like the Q701. These can push out a LOT of air. If you hold them a little bit away from your ears the bass actually gets STRONGER. It's crazy. For that air, you need some strong juice.

Third, the stock pads hide what actual quality these can bring to the table. You absolutely want to buy the velours (or order the velours when purchasing the HE400 off Hifiman... contact them to see if they will swap the pads beforehand for free). This isn't even about comfort. The velours really do bring out a better sense of air and clarity, without sacrificing bass or mids whatsoever. The extra benefit is velour comfort >>>>>> pleather.

Fourth, They're not cheap? Lol.

Fifth, Anything slightly covering the grills will affect SQ. Like even putting your hands NEAR the grills without actually touching them will alter SQ, so these aren't 'lay down on the bed with a fluffy pillow' type of headphone, as the pillow may partially block the grills. I have never heard an open headphone alter it's sound so much when covering the grills.


Honestly, I can't say enough about how amazing they are. I have become an absolute fan of the HE400. They are just fantastic all around. I know how I always say I'm keeping a headphone and end up selling them over some issue. I can say that the only way I'll sell the HE400 is if Hifiman brings out a more bassy planar magnetic, and even then, I'd probably keep these as my balanced all arounder and sell off the Pro 900. That's not even a real issue, but personal preference. The bass in the HE400 is NOT lacking.

I honestly believe the Pro 900 is the last dynamic I will ever buy. Once you go planar magnetic, it's very hard to go back.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The vocals aren't forward, its right where it should be, I'd say. If anything can be said about the HE400 (with velours), its that its very natural sounding, but exciting. Simply has to be heard to be believed. Not neutral, NATURAL. If you have $420 for the cans and the velours, I highly doubt anything compares.


 
   
  I don't have too many other headphones to compare to, but the immediate thing I noticed when comparing the SR-Lambda and SR-202 (albeit from different amplification systems due to the different bias voltages used) was that on the SR-202, the vocals suddenly fell back into the music. It took an EQ boost around the 1 KHz region to get the vocals to stand out a bit more, but it still didn't really sound "right" to me, in no small part due to this somewhat harsh texture the SR-Lambda didn't have. That's probably what turned me into a midrange-head/vocalhead right there, and revealed part of what I initially thought was just general electrostatic clarity and effortlessness at work.
   
  However, that doesn't mean the midrange on the SR-Lambda really jumped out in front of the bass and treble, either, at least not to my ears. While vocals stand out a bit to where I can easily listen to what's being said, it doesn't make the rest of the music fall behind by comparison. It's just in the right place to me. Is it neutral or realistic? I have no idea, but I like it! Frankly, I doubt anything compares.
   
  But if the HE-400 can compare, I'd sure like to know first-hand. I haven't sworn off non-electrostatic models entirely, and orthodynamics are similar in principle with their planar drivers, just with electromagnetic force.
   


seanmcloughlin7 said:


> So what are some drawbacks to the HE400s? All I've seen so far is praise but there must be a catch


 
   
  I'd also like to know, though $400 MSRP is a pretty big catch as it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd like to try some Electrostats at some point. I believe I'm 100% done with dynamics, lol. Though I may make an exception for Tesla drivers in the Beyer Txx-line.

But yes, the HE400's vocals are right in with the music, but very liquid and focused. It's not as forward as the Q701 (not a big difference, maybe 5%), but slightly more integrated, and more organic. Trust me, the mids are beautiful. On some songs, the mids are definitely forward.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDtQXrbAajo&feature=relmfu[/VIDEO]

The vocals are definitely intimate and forward with the HE400.


----------



## TMRaven

Not even an R10?  =O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. I'm now officially an ortho fanboy. 

The way the produce sound is so noticeably different than dynamics, I can't go back.


----------



## TMRaven

What initially made you get rid of your HE-4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trust me, I didn't want to, but I needed the money, and had to sell my Lyr. Without the Lyr, well, the HE-4 was just not right with the E9 to say the least, so I sold it soon after the Lyr. It demands waaay too much power to be deemed logical. If the HE400 hadn't worked for me, I believe the HE-4 would be on their way here right now. My NFB-5 should have somewhat enough gusto for the HE-4 (over two watts for their ohm).

I really loved the HE-4 and I think I'd like to borrow them off someone and compare directly with the HE400.


----------



## TMRaven

Might be fun to get the Lyr again to power the HE-400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I don't wanna deal with tubes. Also, the Lyr recessed the mids, even with edit: neutral tubes vs the E9 (I know). I loved the Lyr, but I like my NFB5 more. The NFB5 also has a full bodied sound without the need of tubes.


----------



## RapidPulse

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> T90 Tesla Power!
> 
> Didn't have much time. Tonight I will be testing this thing thoroughly.
> 
> What I noticed from the first hour. Very comfortable and well built. Extremely detailed representation with huge soundstage. Bass goes lower than DT990, in fact I don't consider it fair to compare this with the DT990 as they simply do not match these headphones except being noticable for midbass. *More later.*


 
  Ok...it is later.  I believe you owe us some more impressions/comparisons!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Are you saying that the T90 has more sub-bass but less mid-bass than DT990?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chicolom, I think you'd be in love with the HE400.


 
   
  Hmmmmmm....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Hmmmmmm....
> 
> :rolleyes:




I feel I need to point that out to you. As you're one of my closest henchme--advisors. :veryevil:

But in all seriousness, the HE400 is literally the next and possibly final step after the Q701. Just saying. 



h34r:


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





rapidpulse said:


> Ok...it is later.  I believe you owe us some more impressions/comparisons!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   


 I haven't had the time for more impressions yet. Maybe this weekend.
   
  Anyway, yes, it has more sub-bass and the sub bass is beautifully present. The one thing you notice from the start is the much better resolution/detail. More later.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I feel I need to point that out to you. As you're one of my closest henchme--advisors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice.  I'll have to look into them.  You giving them the thumbs up is definitely encouraging.  I've never heard a planar (or any non-dynamic phone for that matter 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), and it'd be nice to not have to step up to the flagships to get an improvement over the Q701.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You will have an improvement in every sense, except soundstage. I don't consider the soundstage of the K701/Q701 to be really great though as it's rather oval-shaped with not enough depth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I feel that's a problem all headphones have. Depth has never been a particularly amazing feat on any headphone I've used. They're all somewhat oval, though the Q701 is more so because of the further reach out to the sides. That and the AD700s.

But yes, other than a smaller soundstage (it's still quite open sounding) soundstage, the HE400 should wow the hell out of you.


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I feel that's a problem all headphones have. Depth has never been a particularly amazing feat on any headphone I've used. They're all somewhat oval, though the Q701 is more so because of the further reach out to the sides. That and the AD700s.
> But yes, other than a smaller soundstage (it's still quite open sounding) soundstage, the HE400 should wow the hell out of you.


 
   
  If you want to improve the sideways soundstage, the best way is to mod the grills, as in make new ones with less stuffy steel mesh and replace the stock ones. I made a lengthy "guide" thread less than a week ago about it, people have been too timid to try it out though.
   
Here.
   
  The rationale behind this is that the HE400s being planars are extremely sensitive to anything behind the drivers, meanwhile the stock grills have only maybe 50% surface area open? It induces both some ringing, as well as confinement of the soundstage. Just removing the grills temporarily and listening to the cans you'd notice a HUGE boost in refinement as well as soundstage, but alas just having them without grills is risky so a compromise has to be reached.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Suggest to me a nice reasonably priced headphone amp to drive my 250 ohm DT990s


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> Suggest to me a nice reasonably priced headphone amp to drive my 250 ohm DT990s


 
  Fiio E9


----------



## draven5494

MLE, I had the HE400s for a brief time and my experience was nowhere near as positive as yours.  I couldn't put my finger on it exactly, but it seemed like there were sections of the highs that were completely missing.  Like the FR dropped off and then spiked back up.  
   
  I don't know, I read everywhere how people are loving the HE400s and I really wasn't that impressed.  I am starting to think my pair was defective.  
   
  Do you notice anything missing or dips in the treble on your HE400s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. Did you use the velour pads?

Also, did you have the revised HE400s or the ones before it? The originals had a smoother sound, and had a lot of treble roll off, which sounds like its what you had. They fixed it. Also the velour fixes more of that upper mid recession, as pointed out by the waterfall plots.


----------



## TMRaven

Treble's smooth and sparkly as can be for me.  Anything more pronounced, especially in the lower treble, could easily be called bright.  As it stand the he-400 is already a bit of bright.  Are you referring to the 5khz upper midrange?  The he-400s are a bit tamed down there-- the area where you typically hear the slap of drums.
   
  A quick way to tell if you have older or newer he-400 is to take the pads off.  Black magnetic structure is old, white is new.


----------



## draven5494

I purchased them a few months ago but have since returned them because I thought they were faulty or at the very least their sound signature was way off. I suppose i could have had the older version, it's possible. I never did try the velour pads either. 

All of this info helps though, I may just have to give the he400s another shot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Other ways to tell.

The metal that holds the cups is rough and the old is smooth and polished. The plug on the old is 1/4" with a 3.5mm adapter, the new is 3.5mm with a 1/4" adapter.


----------



## I95North

tmraven said:


> Treble's smooth and sparkly as can be for me.  Anything more pronounced, especially in the lower treble, could easily be called bright.  As it stand the he-400 is already a bit of bright.  Are you referring to the 5khz upper midrange?  The he-400s are a bit tamed down there-- the area where you typically hear the slap of drums.
> 
> A quick way to tell if you have older or newer he-400 is to take the pads off.  Black magnetic structure is old, white is new.




Not for nothing but the rev1 had more of that slap of drums as you say like as in tom toms or snare just more impact even in the kicks..

I think when they fixed the driver problems from cutting in/out they also fixed that slap/snap/impact that the first version had and I miss. In the end HE-400 ver2 is still a stellar headset..


Hey MLE so what's the best gaming headeset out of the AD700 Q701 And HE-400 for positional audio cues only?? I mean I already have my opinion just curious what your thoughts are??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Id say the Q701 has everything you want on that front. The AD700 might have a slight advantage at the expense of a lot of SQ loss.

The HE400 is still a work in progress, but while its stellar, I think the positioning on the Q701 is better.

But were talking about great positioning, not missing anything vs greater positioning, and not being as full bodied.

The Q701 isn't as full bodied, so its easier to focus on sounds, while the HE400 is very full bodied, and everything is more integrated.


----------



## TMRaven

I always found the AD700 to have trouble distinguishing front and back when people are in close proximity, but I remember you said that was just a weakness of dolby headphone in general, and takes a while to get used to.


----------



## I95North

mad lust envy said:


> Id say the Q701 has everything you want on that front. The AD700 might have a slight advantage at the expense of a lot of SQ loss.
> The HE400 is still a work in progress, but while its stellar, I think the positioning on the Q701 is better.
> But were talking about great positioning, not missing anything vs greater positioning, and not being as full bodied.
> The Q701 isn't as full bodied, so its easier to focus on sounds, while the HE400 is very full bodied, and everything is more integrated.




Lol oh ok I'd hope you say the AD700 is king just for positional cues like I see it also.. Now I did swindle my buddy out of his k701 for cheap but not quite the same as the q701 I guess.. I think for me the ad700 wins them all over hands down just for positional cues..

Funny thing though for me is that the ad700 is hella bright and makes my ears ring after Some time using them while gaming. To end the HE-400 are better at not making my ears ring but they lose alil in spot on audio cues to the AD700 but are not bad it all depends on gear in the end I think..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the AD700 is a 10, the Q701 is a 9, and the HE400 is an 8 respectively. Meaning in direct comparison of positional cues.

Anything 8 and above is all that's necessary, and won't hamper gameplay.

Its because the AD700 is so bright and thin sounding that makes positional cues so easy to identify and locate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.avguide.com/review/follow-hifiman-he-400-headphone-revision-2-drivers-playback-57

For those wondering about the changes from the old HE400 to the Revision 2.

I'm so glad I waited until now to get the HE400. I think I wouldn't have liked the original at all.


----------



## lubczyk

Man with hearing how good the ad700 sounds at positional cues, the a900x must be even better, put I just can't get past their cheap wing headband. If only Audio-Technica would fix the headband, I would probably snap the headphones up in an instant.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Man with hearing how good the ad700 sounds at positional cues, the a900x must be even better, put I just can't get past their cheap wing headband. If only Audio-Technica would fix the headband, I would probably snap the headphones up in an instant.


 
  Send them an email about it, I did.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Send them an email about it, I did.


 
  Did you get a response? I'm genuinely curious.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Did you get a response? I'm genuinely curious.


 
  Nope. no answer back.
  I sent it to the USA office,
  Should have sent it to the one in Japan,


----------



## Hailin

Just got my Brainwavz HM5 in. Played some Dead Island. Kept running around to quest givers to test voice distance. I haven't had enough time to really test up and down sound placement but front to back is really nice and the distances seem accurate.  It is really great. 
  Guns sounded fantastic and natural no boominess to them just a nice crisp snap. These headphones compared to my Portapros and DT990pros are very neutral or flat. All the ranges seem well represented on my E9 and on the E17 iphone. Mids and vocals may be a tad forward not HD598 forward.
   
  Isolation is good about the same as my IEMs. Can still hear back ground noise but the louder noises are toned down. Once music is playing everything floats away.
   
  Now this is based off about an hour of listening. As a closed Dolby alternative they really nice. Now to wait for my CALs to arrive. 
   
  If the AKGs K550 sound anything like the HM5 I am wishing I had bought a pair. Because the clamp on these is vicious. I have read they stretch really well so tonight they go over my computer.
   
  Honestly though if you don't want the case the extra cords and spare pads, free headphone stand and free Fiio E6 get one of the clones.
   
  Wish I could write more details but I haven't had enough time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna assume the HM5 is probably better than the CAL, though the CAL will be more fun. Assuming though.

*Btw guys, I've updated the first post with an External Microphone section near the bottom of the first post. Hopefully you guys are happy with it. It's not going to grow much from how it is, but if there are more external mic options that a lot of people take a linking to, I will add them to the list, even without my personal impressions, as I'm not going to be buying any mics anytime soon. I'm happy with my DX mic. I will however, not include the Zalman, as it definitely doesn't get my recommendation.*


----------



## Phos

MLE has plana feeva


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yep, I sure do.

 BTW, here is the microphone section as is...



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> *External Microphones*​
> ...


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm gonna assume the HM5 is probably better than the CAL, though the CAL will be more fun. Assuming though.


 
  I am going assume your assumptions are correct. The HM5 is not a fun or musical headphone at all. I had read somewhere that the soundstage is very V-shaped (honestly I have know idea what that even means without more time with them.) and tethered to the left and right so far for me that is not the case at all with DH, though I really do need to try it on some ME3 and order a pair of Shure 940pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait, what do the 940 pads do to the sound?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wait, what do the 940 pads do to the sound?


 
  That is what I am still trying to find out, lol. Researching that is a pain. I just have to find a place that will sell them to me for less then 50 to 60CAD. 
   
  I really just want them for comfort reasons at this point. The pleather is very soft and comfortable the heat factor not so much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And you're sure they fit?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And you're sure they fit?


 
  Yup that I know for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so my left driver on the Pro 900 is definitely lacking in treble compared to the right, mostly a driver imbalance (not an issue I have with the HE400), so I'm returning my Pro 900s. I was going to exchange them for another one 9I mentioned this before even owning the HE400, but I rather get the refund. My HE400 is just so good, I don't see the Pro 900 getting any headtime now.

This leaves me open for a closed headphone in the future, though it's not going to be anywhere near a priority. I might re-order the Pro 900s later on. I'll wait for a new closed ortho, if, and when it comes.


----------



## theguythatthe

I like the warm signature of the CAL!.  Will I like the Steelseries 7H?


----------



## dentnu

Hey,
   
  Well I got my O2 amp and wow what a difference everything sound so much crisper and louder with my 380 HD Pro's. I am hearing sounds that I never knew were there and could not hear before. I would like to thank everyone that helped me out I greatly appreciate it. Now that I can hear my music and games so much better I am kinda wondering if there are better headphones out there than my 380 HD Pro's. Don't get me wrong I like them allot I am just intrigued by the fact that there might be a better one's that I can buy in the price range 250.00. I was looking at the Q701 will those have a bigger sound-stage and be more immersive than my 380's? If you guys could give me a few suggestions I would greatly appreciate it. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## TMRaven

Your absolute love for the HE-400 and even returning the Pro900 and not getting a replacement would have been the last thing I would have thought.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really need to hear the HE-4 again to see if they have more bass or not.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dentnu said:


> Now that I can hear my music and games so much better I am kinda wondering if there are better headphones out there than my 380 HD Pro's. Don't get me wrong I like them allot I am just intrigued by the fact that there might be a better one's that I can buy in the price range 250.00. I was looking at the Q701 will those have a bigger sound-stage and be more immersive than my 380's? If you guys could give me a few suggestions I would greatly appreciate it.


 
   
  Seeing as the HD380s are closed, it's probably safe to assume there are some bigger-soundstage options for $250, Q701 being one of them.  The first page has suggestions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So due to my work, I decided that something I can easily slip on and off would be worthwhile, so I ordered the Monster Turbine off Amazon. $75. I hear good things about them, so I hope they satisfy me as the portable choice.

Don't expect a review of them for gaming, as I doubt they'd be good with the Mixamp.IEMs just ain't it for console gaming. Portable gaming? Sure.

I'm not a huge fan of IEMs in general, but we'll see.


I dunno what it is, but I SWEAR the HE400's soundstage with the NFB 5 is pretty damn wide. Just listening to my music, lots of songs sound out of my head. I do not remember this even with the Q701. I'm not saying the soundstage is bigger. It isn't, but with music, it really does reach out. o_O

I really do believe it's the NFB5, since I definitely don't get that with the soundcard's hpo. Too bad I didn't keep my E9 long enough to test them out with it.


----------



## Eric_C

Tried a HE-500 over the weekend (local shop didn't have the HE-400). Beautiful sound out of a Phonitor, but aye caramba, the weight! 
  What is it, 500gm?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I heard its quite hefty. The HE400 is lighter by a bit, and its still heavy. I can only imagine how heavy the HE500 is.


----------



## Rebel975

You get used to the weight.
   
  My only issue with it at the moment is that I feel there are better gaming cans out there. Either it's my headphones, my ears, or MW3 has very poor sound positioning. With Sitrep Pro I can only hear people about 20 feet away from me, and even then it's hard to tell where they're coming from. Don't get me wrong- the sound quality is excellent. However, I think I might want something else. I was kind of hoping that MLE would give the T90's a good review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its the game. MW3 has terrible positioning. MW2 has much better positioning. As does Black Ops (with Ninja Pro).


----------



## Rebel975

That's good news, I guess. I really do like the way the HE-500's sound. Anyway, yeah- CoD4/MW2 definitely had good positioning. I don't think I ever got Ninja Pro in Black Ops though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm curious how the 32ohm DT990 would fare with the E17. The E17 would have the juice for it, plus the treble reduction option. Dang, if only they would have gone down in price. They are ridiculously expensive. Lol.


----------



## Dirksqjaw

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Its the game. MW3 has terrible positioning. MW2 has much better positioning. As does Black Ops (with Ninja Pro).


 
   
  Huh, I haven't tried blops with my cans but I didn't think MW3 was bad at all. AD700's are great in terms of direction, and the SR850's have that plus a bit better distance figuring in MW3. I mean, if it got mutch better than this... I already feel like I'm cheating!
   
  I found the positioning in BF2 to be pretty bad, though - you think MW3 is better than BF2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. MW3 has some positioning. Battlefield... not so much. There's just some games (Uncharted 3 as well) that have bad positioning.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Just got my DT 990s in the mail today and my God. I have never had a proper pair of headphones before for anything and these are blowing my mind. Granted I have barely anything to compare to but these are awesome and worth every penny. Music is so forceful now 
  I'm still trying to figure out how to set up my Xonar DX control panel to get the most out of them for games. There are so many options and combos it's overwhelming


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster here.  One, I'd like to thank MLE for beginning this thread as it's very informative for n00bs(like me) and vets alike, and for those others helping aswell. Two, long story short, two cans later I realized that I much rather fun over competitive ones(but I still love casual competitive console/pc multiplayer, mostly fps, mmos, and high moon studios transformer games, so I'd rather not take that out completely). I had hoped to gain my answer without bothering you guys, but it has been a bit hard.  The direction I was going was Pro 900s, or 990 premiums.  Isolation isn't much of a concern, tho my wife would probably appreciate it. Also I would prefer them able to run just off a Mixamp. The list puts 990 premiums up there for both, which I like but I thought I read that it may need another amp to power.  I know the pro 900s will work with just the amp, natural feel was a concern tho, which made the he400s intriguing more recently, but bass was a concern.  Price is not TOO much of a concern either but d7000s are out lol.  Whatcha guys think?
   
  - Rico


----------



## robwalton

Hey there, new member here, wanted to ask a quick question for you guys.
   
  I have a 5.1 Mixamp + A30 set, and I wanted to upgrade the cans. I basically play single player games, and wanted the best immersion possible, so I don't really care for positioning, just for a more "Home Theater"  experience.
   
  Would you recommend closed or open back headphones in this case? Any suggestions close to $100?
   
  Thanks (and sorry if this was already covered and I missed it!).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sean, I'm very happy that they suited you. 

Rob, the Creative Aurvana Live has you covered. They are exactly what you want for $100 or less. The closest open back I recommend would be the DT990 pros, but they go for about $70-100 more than your price range. If you can afford $150, the DT770 Pro 80 is even more immersive than the CAL, but I'd honestly save up a little bit extra for the 990 pros if you're going up to that price bracket, as they are a clear step up for just $20 or so more.




mrniceguy633 said:


> Hey guys, long time lurker, first time poster here.  One, I'd like to thank MLE for beginning this thread as it's very informative for n00bs(like me) and vets alike, and for those others helping aswell. Two, long story short, two cans later I realized that I much rather fun over competitive ones(but I still love casual competitive console/pc multiplayer, mostly fps, mmos, and high moon studios transformer games, so I'd rather not take that out completely). I had hoped to gain my answer without bothering you guys, but it has been a bit hard.  The direction I was going was Pro 900s, or 990 premiums.  Isolation isn't much of a concern, tho my wife would probably appreciate it. Also I would prefer them able to run just off a Mixamp. The list puts 990 premiums up there for both, which I like but I thought I read that it may need another amp to power.  I know the pro 900s will work with just the amp, natural feel was a concern tho, which made the he400s intriguing more recently, but bass was a concern.  Price is not TOO much of a concern either but d7000s are out lol.  Whatcha guys think?
> 
> - Rico




If you can swing the HE400 (make sure you buy new, as old ones may be older version that sounds different) with velours, they will blow your mind. So far I'd say that for gaming, they are an 8.5 for fun, 8 for competitive. Meaning great halfway to amazing, and great. They are both fun and well balanced. What the PC360 on SQ steroids would be. Do not worry about bass. It's not super emphasized like the Pro 900s, but it is very rich, and strong when necessary. I'd put actual quantity at an 8. More presence than the Pro 2900 and DT880.


----------



## robwalton

Thanks for the recommendation, I was looking at the CAL and they really do look good, specially at that price point (I live abroad, so everything is extra expensive due to importing fees).
   
  I see you prefer it to the M50, in what situations do you think the M50 would be a better headphone? It's just that I hear so many good things about the M50, that I can't help but think that in the long run they would be a better buy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The M50 is more aggressive, with a more restricted soundstage. I'd say that aside from the tonal shift, they are neck to neck overall. I actually prefer the M50 for music by just a hair, but for gaming, the M50 doesn't come close. They just do not work well with the Mixamp. The CAL does. For $50 more here in the states, the DT770 80 is even more impressive with soundstage and positioning, and a somewhat similar sound. They are kings of immersion for closed headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





dirksqjaw said:


> Huh, I haven't tried blops with my cans but I didn't think MW3 was bad at all. AD700's are great in terms of direction, and the SR850's have that plus a bit better distance figuring in MW3. I mean, if it got mutch better than this... I already feel like I'm cheating!
> 
> I found the positioning in BF2 to be pretty bad, though - you think MW3 is better than BF2?


 
   
  You sure you didn't mean BF3 there, with the Frostbite engine's poor audio mixing?
   
  BF2 uses OpenAL, so positioning is as perfect as can be, and certainly far superior to CoD:MW3's XAudio2/FMOD Ex mixing.


----------



## robwalton

The DT 770 does look good, maybe if a friend of mine goes to the US I might order one.
   
  But if I have to import, then its just too much for me, since I risk being taxed, which would bring up the cost to 400 bucks.
   
  I guess I'll go with the CAL!, good recommendations, looks comfortable, and I won't get in too much trouble if they get it at customs.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

So they're that good huh? And your sense of immersion was relatively untouched compared to say the pro 900 or 990 premiums? Didn't feel like you lost were missing out on anything the other two could provide? Ambience and such?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because a full sounding open can trumps any closed can. Going from closed to open really adds ambience and immersion, not to mention usually better positioning.

The Pro 900 is closed sounding, no matter how you slice it. Positioning is between good and great, but they are considerably more closed sounding than say the DT770 Pro 80 or Denon D7000. The DT990 Premiums are more open sounding than the HE400, but sound thin and harsh in comparison. Bass is more preferrable on the 990s than the HE400 for my personal taste.

The HE400 have the perfect balance of openness, full bodied sound, and overall good to great positioning. They define all rounders for me.

I do need to use them for gaming a lot more to make sure I know what score the HE400 is going to have overall. Right now, I'm floating between:

Fun: 8-8.5
Competitive: 7.5-8

Yes, I'm absolutely in love with them, but I haven't had time to truly test out their positional cues outside of a few BLOPS games, and don't wanna blindly put up a score based on personal bias.

The HE400 impressions are gonna take awhile.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> You sure you didn't mean BF3 there, with the Frostbite engine's poor audio mixing?
> 
> BF2 uses OpenAL, so positioning is as perfect as can be, and certainly far superior to CoD:MW3's XAudio2/FMOD Ex mixing.


 
  Yeah it's disheartening that BF3 has some of the best audio around but bad positioning. all around at ear level is fine but it's when things are below and above you it falls apart. Like being on a roof and having a tank in the building, a guy fired an RPG at it and I thought he was behind me on the roof. It's really annoying


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest, height positional cues isn't exactly a strength of Dolby headphone either.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Hm, well I certainly have some more to consider now. I'll wait for your final thoughts. I understand you want some more time. Thanks for the small personal preview


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't get me wrong, the HE400 are stellar gaming cans, and aren't missing anything. In the grand scheme of things, they have everything I could ask for in terms of gaming. However, since this is a guide, and scores are given, there are headphones that have better raw positioning, and raw fun factor. However, I haven't heard a headphone that does both on such a high level of sound quality, as the HE400.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To be honest, height positional cues isn't exactly a strength of Dolby headphone either.


 
  Maybe not but it doesn't really matter in other games. BF3 is the only game where I have had the problem I mentioned. Guys above and below you sound like they are right beside you


----------



## Mrniceguy633

I can see what you mean. To me, I suppose emulating "natural", would be not having so much emphasis on bass anyway as it doesn't really seem to be as prevalent on a day to day basis unless something happens and calls for it. As long as it's there when it's demanded(situation calls for it). Then it sems they would provide plenty of a more "natural" immersion. Or perhaps I'm just talking out of my butt. What do I know lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually, you have a firm grasp on what I mean. The HE400's bass is natural, yet still richer than what I'd consider neutral. If a song has bass, the HE400 will not disappoint. If a song doesn't, it won't add any unnecessary amount, which is a problem with bass heavy headphones. They tend to add bass to things that normally shouldn't have much.

Video games have plenty of explosions and rumbling, etc, so the HE400's remains quite busy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





seanmcloughlin7 said:


> Yeah it's disheartening that BF3 has some of the best audio around but bad positioning. all around at ear level is fine but it's when things are below and above you it falls apart. Like being on a roof and having a tank in the building, a guy fired an RPG at it and I thought he was behind me on the roof. It's really annoying


 
   
  What I've noticed is that no matter where an explosion goes off, there's always a left-right pan regardless of where the explosion happened. For that matter, I have a hard time localizing ANY sound in BF:BC2. (Can't speak as much about BF3 due to only having played a brief bit of the public beta, but it still appears to have the same audio mixer.)
   
  Given that the actual sound effects used are great, it's quite the letdown. I wonder if anyone's willing to make a BF2 sound mod using the BF:BC2 or BF3 sounds.
   
  As for the lack of height cues, blame the downfall of hardware-accelerated 3D audio in favor of software mixers that favor 5.1/7.1 speaker setups (which have no height channels whatsoever and assume that all speakers are placed at an equal height) and act as if headphones are only good for stereo left/right one-dimensional panning, like binaural/HRTF mixing doesn't exist. I was just playing BF1942 last night, and not only was it clear with CMSS-3D Headphone that a plane was flying over my head (not on the same altitude) while taking cover in a building, but I could easily tell what direction it was coming from and heading towards without having to look. Like I always say, it's like having an aural wallhack.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Ah ok that all makes sense. I suppose that's what makes bass emphasized headphones seem so appealing. They make things sound intense all the time. For some headphones that's gotta wear out it's welcome at some point


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Telling you though, I'm here listening to one of my fave Chillstep tracks (I always mention this one: 'Synthetic Epiphany - Submerged"), and it's just mind blowing how awesome it sounds on the HE400.

I for damn sure cannot say that the HE400 is lacking bass.

One example of unnecessary bass, is like on the D7000. Certain instruments and vocals would have more rumble than you'd perceive as natural. Granted, I'm perfectly fine with it, but it IS unnatural. The HE400 doesn't have that issue.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm back from my sister's wedding!

Mad,
Your endorsement for the HE400 continues to sound impressive. I wish I could have a comparable setup and really get a feel for 3D audio gaming, but my sound upgrade I'm pursuing is my own living space so I can set up all my doo-dads. Honestly, I've been using the Q701s a lot but mostly plugged into my Mom's home theater CD player with new CDs of the music I have past loved, but only had the one 30 minute chance to set up MY receiver with the 5.1 to headphone mixing for gaming.

One thing I wonder (& I'm sure worries you) is how do you compare headphones when you don't have them side-by-side? I thought I had a good handle on what my different headphones sound like, but I dug out my Etymotic ER*6i IEMs for the plane rides between Atlanta and home, and I was re-impressed by those. I brought them because I remembered that they were a godsend to block out the crying babies while also being detail monsters, but I rediscovered the longer plugs scratched my ears less, had forgotten how GOOD these could sound, and the refreshed experience surprised me by cleanly and confidently they played my quality test playlist. I don't think I could compare them accurately to the Q701s unless I A-B'd them in the same listening session. How do you keep your rankings straight and avoid recency bias?

Even so, your comparative reviews are immensely more useful than isolated impression reviews.



mad lust envy said:


> *Btw guys, I've updated the first post with an External Microphone section near the bottom of the first post. Hopefully you guys are happy with it. It's not going to grow much from how it is, but if there are more external mic options that a lot of people take a linking to, I will add them to the list, even without my personal impressions, as I'm not going to be buying any mics anytime soon. I'm happy with my DX mic. I will however, not include the Zalman, as it definitely doesn't get my recommendation.*



Awesome addition, good read. Reviews on the Zalman are so polarized without always providing enough context, like what setup is used, so I feel like your conclusion is the final word on that, even taking into account sample variation. On a similar note, I have just earned an Amazon gift card, do you think this mic will perform similar to your DX mic? http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=sr_1_5?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1343685459&sr=1-5

NamelessPFG,
One thing I love about pc gaming is just how long the lifespan of a game can last. Someday I'll have to track down copies of those older games with hardware-accelerated headphone 3D to get a full experience... Perhaps the continued Console stagnation will continue to bring back mainstream PC Gaming for games other than WoW, runescape, and Starcraft. Which FPS would you recommend first as a first-rate sound experience: BF2, BF 1942, or something I'm not even aware of? Have you tried Metro 2033 on PC?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Telling you though, I'm here listening to one of my fave Chillstep tracks (I always mention this one: 'Synthetic Epiphany - Submerged"), and it's just mind blowing how awesome it sounds on the HE400.
> I for damn sure cannot say that the HE400 is lacking bass.
> One example of unnecessary bass, is like on the D7000. Certain instruments and vocals would have more rumble than you'd perceive as natural. Granted, I'm perfectly fine with it, but it IS unnatural. The HE400 doesn't have that issue.




I just heard 'Angel' - Massive Attack on a $300 car subwoofer for the first time while on vacation. While calling it boomy and loose compared to the Q701 is an understatement, it was interesting to hear the transformative emphasis on the song's bass as the impact scaled much much more dynamically than possible on headphones. Little scary TBH, LOL!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That song has terrible mastering in general (way too skewed towards bass, and almost not mid and treble clarity), which is a shame, as it's such a great song.

As for comparisons, I try my best to NOT compare them, which is why I always say that the scores are based on the headphone's own merits, and not when compared to other headphones.

The comparisons I do make are ones I feel comfortable with, as it does come from memory, and not 100% accurate (memory is a terrible tool for comparison).


----------



## Evshrug

I know what you mean, and I agree, I'm particularly disappointed how distorted the (what I assume are) cymbals are through out the song, sort of like a sound reflected off water which is cool at first but lacking in organic depth. I'll have to look up that Submerged track you mention, but I may keep using Angel as a memory reference. I just continue to bring that song to new reviews BECAUSE it has that overwhelming bass, isolating part of the freq spectrum for testing just like the AD700s seem specialized for soundscape and mid-treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBBETgrBeDc][/VIDEO]



This song is ALL about sub bass (after about 1:10), and is MASTER quality clean. The download track, not the actual youtube vid. He had it free somewhere. 

The vid is a bit boomier and uncontrolled, even on my HE400. The 320kbps MP3 is perfect though.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

I remember you mentioning synthetic epiphany before and honestly I have never heard of chillstep before. But I will check it out! On a side note, I looked up the he400s and it looks like I can fill them up with water and use them as swimming pools they seem so big. I have a pretty small head and wear glasses. You thinkeeither of those would pose an issue?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The cups are pretty big, and they are on the heavy side, but the weight is distributed very evenly due to the headband design. I've had bigger cups, and a lot less comfortable fit (the D7000 has a weird fit when sitting on the head, though it's alleviated by the pads). The HE400 can also be retracted to fit TINY heads, so I don't see you having a problem with fit.

edit: Yeah, I don't know when it happened, but testing out new music, the bass on the HE400 has absolutely come alive. There's absolutely no reason for me to own a basshead can with these. 

Gonna have to definitely rate the bass quantity as an 8-8.5


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> What I've noticed is that no matter where an explosion goes off, there's always a left-right pan regardless of where the explosion happened. For that matter, I have a hard time localizing ANY sound in BF:BC2. (Can't speak as much about BF3 due to only having played a brief bit of the public beta, but it still appears to have the same audio mixer.)


 
  Can't say I've noticed that now but then again I wasn't looking for it so next time I jump in I will hear for it. What I noticed about explosions is they always originate from behind me. apart from the initial burst like a grenade or something big rumbling explosions in the distance seem to be directed to rear channels as if to show the scale of the explosion that it's heard all around you. 
  They have the very best gun sounds and vehicle sounds in any FPS I've heard but their panning and localisation is a bit mediocre. But it's still good enough for me to blast some fools


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> This song is ALL about sub bass (after about 1:10), and is MASTER quality clean. The download track, not the actual youtube vid. He had it free somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Holy crap that sounded awesome.That bass is killer, Such a great track to try out my new HPs


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm just glad that I'm not the only one to notice that the recent Battlefield games (from Bad Company 1 and 2, Medal of Honor, BF3) are quite lacking in positional cues. It's really a damn shame because the sound quality is absolutely among the best I've heard in a video game.


----------



## Ziion

Thank you so much for this guide. Very informative and I appreciate your honest opinion and taking the time to experience countless headphones.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm just glad that I'm not the only one to notice that the recent Battlefield games (from Bad Company 1 and 2, Medal of Honor, BF3) are quite lacking in positional cues. It's really a damn shame because the sound quality is absolutely among the best I've heard in a video game.


 
  Yeah I was used to the TV speakers for a while and didn't care but when I started messing with 7.1 headsets and a crappy real 5.1 speaker setup I realised the positional cues weren't as good as I was expecting. They still do the job and I know if a guy walks behind me etc. but it's not as pin point as some other games. I think it's to give a sense of scale and the chaos that's really going on


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Well that's reassuring. I hope they don't jam up against my glasses. That's my biggest issue as far as comfort. I'm glad to hear the new headset is getting better and better tho


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

I have no idea how the DT990s produce such low deep bass for an open set, and the soundstage in them is amazing. There have been times when playing that I was stunned at how far out the sound went. It wasn't all inside my head but surrounded me quite well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thought you guys might enjoy this. This is from the Ultrasone Demo CD that came with the Pro 900s (and I assume others like the Pro 2900). It's a binaural recording, and sounds like the band is playing right around you.

Just put on your headphones and enjoy. Those with open headphones should appreciate it even more. 

edit: I have no idea where the link is. XD


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> NamelessPFG,
> One thing I love about pc gaming is just how long the lifespan of a game can last. Someday I'll have to track down copies of those older games with hardware-accelerated headphone 3D to get a full experience... Perhaps the continued Console stagnation will continue to bring back mainstream PC Gaming for games other than WoW, runescape, and Starcraft. Which FPS would you recommend first as a first-rate sound experience: BF2, BF 1942, or something I'm not even aware of? Have you tried Metro 2033 on PC?


 
   
  Generally speaking, any game that uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL will have proper positional audio, which covers most releases from 2006 and prior. I just happen to prefer stuff like the earlier Battlefield games and Unreal Tournament because of my tastes in FPSs. (It also helps that BF2 and BF2142 were designed with the X-Fi DSP in mind in addition to using proper 3D audio APIs, as the highest sound quality settings can't be enabled without a proper X-Fi card.)
   
  Other games like Counter-Strike would probably benefit even more from proper positional audio just due to the nature of their gameplay, but I never really got hooked on CS.
   
  Also, if all the other people still playing it weren't so curb-stompingly good, I'd try out Descent 3 in multiplayer some more. The first two games were DOS and didn't support 3D audio (I don't think the DXX-Rebirth and D2X-XL source ports have even bothered implementing it from what I can tell), but the third one does use DS3D. It's only fitting that a game with actual 3D, 6DoF gameplay would have some 3D sound to go with it.
   
  If we weren't talking multiplayer FPSs specifically, then the Thief series sets the benchmark for sound design and positioning in video games, in no small part due to how sound is so integral to the gameplay. Do note that all are DS3D (need ALchemy) and that some versions of ALchemy will act up with 1/2 or Deadly Shadows, while other versions work perfectly fine with both. (Thankfully, the ALchemy version included with the X-Fi Titanium HD's drivers falls into the latter category.)
   


mad lust envy said:


> I'm just glad that I'm not the only one to notice that the recent Battlefield games (from Bad Company 1 and 2, Medal of Honor, BF3) are quite lacking in positional cues. It's really a damn shame because the sound quality is absolutely among the best I've heard in a video game.


 
   
  One of these days, I'm going to have to show you first-hand what Battlefield games USED to sound like, even if you'd never play those entries in the series due to the simple matter of all of them being PC-exclusive. (No, BF2: Modern Combat is not the same thing as BF2 on PC, before anyone asks.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can try and record the gameplay with the processsing, like I've seen on youtube, albeit quite rarely.


PC gaming audio sounds so non-user friendly with all the optimizing. I prefer simple plug and play. =/


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> PC gaming audio sounds so non-user friendly with all the optimizing. I prfer simple plug and play. =/


 
   
  It's not as complex as it sounds to me. It's all a matter of having the right sound card and ticking the right settings. Most of it is set-and-forget, though Vista's new, DirectSound3D-free sound stack just had to throw a wrench in the works for older games, adding a few steps to the mix.
   
  Still, I won't deny that PC gaming is a complex experience if you want to get the most out of it. I tend to tinker around with things a lot, so it doesn't bother me at all, but I can understand why people would just want to pop in the game and play. (Now if the current consoles didn't start adding PC complexity without PC flexibility through game installs, firmware updates, stuff like that...it's like they're trying to be PCs now.)
   
  I've thought about recording some gameplay footage using various mixing settings between my X-Fi Titanium HD and my SU-DH1 for comparison's sake, but I have some things I still need to sort out:
   
  -what program to record with
  -what game to record (some of the games I like don't seem to have demo recording functions for consistent results)
  -how to ensure YouTube won't butcher the audio quality without having to make people download the video files prior to watching


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Assuming you can get at least 720p vids for youtube, the audio should be relatively fine, and what's most important is audio cues, which should remain intact.

As far as games, one of the older ones you talked about. 

I realize I could just run an audio cable from the Mixamp to the PC's mic input and record some game audio (no video feed) for some Dolby Headphone demos, but it's gonna be hissy as all hell.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quick question about PS3 gaming. 

So I'm trying to find the best audio settings for DAO. I'm using mixamp pro, objective 2 amp (this amp sucks imo), and these Q701. I know I can only effectively run in Dolby 5.1 and not DTS 5.1, but what about the freqs?


----------



## robwalton

One quick question guys. As I stated before, I have a Astro A30, and going with Mad Lust recommendations, I think I'll upgrade to the CAL!.
   
  Do you think this is a worthy upgrade, is there going to be a significative difference in immersion with the CAL!,?
   
  Or are the A30 decent enough that I am better off holding on to my money and save for something more expensive, like a DT 770 Pro for instance, when I have the chance to go to the US?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

AD700 are the best $100 range headphones. 109 new on amazon.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Honestly I'm into immersion aswell, coming from having A50s a week ago, I believe CAL would be worlds better as far as immersion goes. A50s did nothing for me. Sadly, I thought my older PX3s were better for immersion than the A50s. But I also don't believe they were made for that crowd anyway. DT770 pro 80s seem to be mentioned whenever immersion pops up, so they have a reputation. But I haven't had either of them so I couldn't say for sure. If A30s are anything like the A50s, I'd make the switch to whatever you feel most comfortable with. That's just me


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





robwalton said:


> One quick question guys. As I stated before, I have a Astro A30, and going with Mad Lust recommendations, I think I'll upgrade to the CAL!.
> 
> Do you think this is a worthy upgrade, is there going to be a significative difference in immersion with the CAL!,?
> 
> Or are the A30 decent enough that I am better off holding on to my money and save for something more expensive, like a DT 770 Pro for instance, when I have the chance to go to the US?


 

 If you need closed then yes the DT770 is going to be the best you can buy in this price range. I would do it for the velour pads alone. I have the HM5s and they are wonderful but I hate the pleather so so much.
   
  I will be getting the CALs this weekend. Hope I enjoy it. If not I to am going to just save up for a DT770pro 250ohm as a closed headphone. (Probably should have done this from the beginning.)


----------



## robwalton

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I will be getting the CALs this weekend. Hope I enjoy it. If not I to am going to just save up for a DT770pro 250ohm as a closed headphone. (Probably should have done this from the beginning.)


 
   
  I think I'll get the CAL only because the DT 770 Pro is way more expensive where I'm getting it: 209 euros for the 770 vs 69 euro for the CAL is just too much of a difference
   
  Let me know your impressions of the CAL after you get it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Meant to post this before, but I forgot the actual link, lol.

Thought you guys might enjoy this. This is from the Ultrasone Demo CD that came with the Pro 900s (and I assume others like the Pro 2900). It's a binaural recording, and sounds like the band is playing right around you.

Just put on your headphones and enjoy. Those with open headphones should appreciate it even more. 

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkQRrCVosJs[/VIDEO]

The video clips at times, however.




Just got my Monster Turbines. They'll do, though not exactly highly detailed. The bass isn't bloated though. Strong, but nothing I can't handle. Mids seem right in the same level as the highs.Hhad to order some tips, because these are very uncomfortable.


----------



## Dirksqjaw

namelesspfg said:


> You sure you didn't mean BF3 there, with the Frostbite engine's poor audio mixing?
> 
> BF2 uses OpenAL, so positioning is as perfect as can be, and certainly far superior to CoD:MW3's XAudio2/FMOD Ex mixing.




Too right, good catch. I did indeed mean bf3.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

ninjasushi2 said:


> Quick question about PS3 gaming.
> So I'm trying to find the best audio settings for DAO. I'm using mixamp pro, objective 2 amp (this amp sucks imo), and these Q701. I know I can only effectively run in Dolby 5.1 and not DTS 5.1, but what about the freqs?




Repost. Any idea on these kHz? 44.1 - 88.2 - 176.4
DD 5.1 - DTS 5.1 - AAC

Insight anyone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just set it to 44.1/48, Dolby Digital 5.1. Uncheck everything else.

What's wrong with the O2?


----------



## Evshrug

ninjasushi2 said:


> Quick question about PS3 gaming.
> So I'm trying to find the best audio settings for DAO. I'm using mixamp pro, objective 2 amp (this amp sucks imo), and these Q701. I know I can only effectively run in Dolby 5.1 and not DTS 5.1, but what about the freqs?




As a fellow Q701 owner (who got to play BF3 campaign a bit last night, setting "headphone" and "Enhanced Stereo On" in audio prefs sounded nothing like ES: Oblivion through Yamaha's Silent Cinema), I'm very curious about your opinion that the O2 sucks. Is it like what WiR3D said in his recent review of the VAMP amp, that having one pleasantly colored element in your audio chain creates the best experience and the Q701 and O2 aren't a good match because they're both transparent, or do you have a basis for comparison and you don't think the O2 stands up to the other amp for musicality? What amp would you like?
And is DAO that star trek MMO? I wouldn't expect an MMO to have the highest sound quality, especially one that takes place in a vaccum


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Meant to post this before, but I forgot the actual link, lol.
> Thought you guys might enjoy this. This is from the Ultrasone Demo CD that came with the Pro 900s (and I assume others like the Pro 2900). It's a binaural recording, and sounds like the band is playing right around you.
> Just put on your headphones and enjoy. Those with open headphones should appreciate it even more.
> [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkQRrCVosJs[/VIDEO]
> The video clips at times, however.



I expected it to clip a lot more, lol, barely noticeable. And now I'm strangely hungry.

I had to quote your message to see the video link on my iPad, i don't think videos embedded in Head-Fi show up on iOS devices.Here's another video - cheesy but the positioning and depth are very distinct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FwDa7TWHHc&feature=youtube_gdata_player



mad lust envy said:


> Just got my Monster Turbines. They'll do, though not exactly highly detailed. The bass isn't bloated though. Strong, but nothing I can't handle. Mids seem right in the same level as the highs. Had to order some tips, because these are very uncomfortable.



I guess the KSC 35 weren't "doing it" for ya in all portable situations, eh? I still prefer my Ety's, though I never got to hear the ultimate ears when they were good for the price. I think it's odd that I prefer the larger silicone tips on the Ety's, but the edges on the small tips are very noticeable and hurt after a short while.I ought to order replacement small foam tips, they were the best but so earwax-y now.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

mad lust envy said:


> Just set it to 44.1/48, Dolby Digital 5.1. Uncheck everything else.
> What's wrong with the O2?




Thanks. 




evshrug said:


> As a fellow Q701 owner (who got to play BF3 campaign a bit last night, setting "headphone" and "Enhanced Stereo On" in audio prefs sounded nothing like ES: Oblivion through Yamaha's Silent Cinema), I'm very curious about your opinion that the O2 sucks. Was it like what WiR3D said in his recent review of the VAMP amp, that having one pleasantly colored element in your audio chain creates the best experience and the Q701 and O2 aren't a good match because they're both transparent, or do you have a basis for comparison and you don't think the O2 stands up to the other amp for musicality? What amp would you like?
> And is DAO that star trek MMO? I wouldn't expect an MMO to have the highest sound quality, especially one that takes place in a vaccum




No it's Dragon Age Origins. 

The O2 sucks imo for two reasons. I hate the design. Having all my hookups in the front makes managing cables with this mixamp a pain in my ass. Also I think the Q701 would benefit from a warmer amp that can drive the bass a bit more. (Any ideas).. Now I am partially deaf too but I also have a hard time picking up footsteps. For music the O2 sounds great because it streamlines music more or less linear. Mostly mids and some highs but doesn't drive lows. Once again I'm deaf from my years in the army; that and I haven't yet compared anything to it yet. I might go to the music shop tonight but again this setup just seems empty. 

But above all the biggest pet peeve is all the wiring in front. Does anyone have this setup and find it lacks something. On a scale of 1-9, 4-6 is great but 1, 2, 3, and 7, 8, 9, lack.


Edit: watched the video and highs sound great, I'm starting to realize it's my source. That and I need an ear cleaning! Badum dum tsssh...

Still needs a warm amp imo, off to the guitar world music store place. Hastings I think is the one I'm heading to, haven't been there. I'll post again tonight. I'll bring my amp and headphones too.


----------



## Dirksqjaw

evshrug said:


> I just heard 'Angel' - Massive Attack on a $300 car subwoofer for the first time while on vacation. While calling it boomy and loose compared to the Q701 is an understatement, it was interesting to hear the transformative emphasis on the song's bass as the impact scaled much much more dynamically than possible on headphones. Little scary TBH, LOL!




Ok off topic but that is freaky. I'm reading your post with my MD's on, listening to that very same song!

Love massive attack and they sound brilliant with the MD's


----------



## TMRaven

Are we talking wiring for just regular usage, and not gaming?  At first I thought I'd have a big issue with the wiring on the front, but thanks to my desk's wire holes, it's a relative non-issue, in fact I have less wire clutter now than I did before.
   

   
   
   
  I think we should distinguish here between 'not driving lows' and 'driving lows, but not to the coloration of other amps.'  I think it's a big paradigm split on head-fi too.  All too often I hear people saying a certain headphone isn't being driven properly, and that amps add bass are amps that drive them properly.  The reality of it is I think they're not using neutral/thin headphones to begin with, then relying on a colored amp to make their  bass in-line with the rest of their sound.  I think the rightful approach is getting a neutral headphone to begin with and getting a neutral amp to go with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the O2's inputs all being in the front is a major reason why I dismissed it. I'd personally wait for the ODA which should be more conventional. Yes, the O2 is very transparent , and not exactly musical in that it doesn't add or take anything away in terms of the individual frequencies. The Q701 isn't exactly musical until paired with certain colored amps (it is SO finicky). I can easily understand how the Q701 and O2 would be a mostly analytical pairing.

I just think the O2 is an ideal amp sound wise, precisely because it lets your headphones do all the talking.


----------



## seanmcloughlin7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> .Here's another video - cheesy but the positioning and depth are very distinct.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FwDa7TWHHc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


 
  I love these. I think more games should try utilise stuff like this more. It's very convincing. Imagine a horror game with perfect binaural recording and you walk down a hall and something touches you shoulder or whispers in your ear, would really freak you out


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

seanmcloughlin7 said:


> I love these. I think more games should try utilise stuff like this more. It's very convincing. Imagine a horror game with perfect binaural recording and you walk down a hall and something touches you shoulder or whispers in your ear, would really freak you out




Corpse Party on the PSP is binaural. Can also be downloaded for the Vita. 

Youtube vids seem to have the headphone option turned off in the game, so I dunno what it sounds like.


----------



## Evshrug

dirksqjaw said:


> Ok off topic but that is freaky. I'm reading your post with my MD's on, listening to that very same song!
> Love massive attack and they sound brilliant with the MD's




Haha, yeah Massive Attack has a unique sound that is easy to crave every once in a while, like Chinese food or Chipotle. Which brings "Paradise Circus" to mind, I'm a have to go listen to that for the first time on my Q's ^__^
What are the MDs? My mind is stuck thinking Magnetic Drive...



namelesspfg said:


> Generally speaking, any game that uses DirectSound3D or OpenAL will have proper positional audio, which covers most releases from 2006 and prior. I just happen to prefer stuff like the earlier Battlefield games and Unreal Tournament because of my tastes in FPSs. (It also helps that BF2 and BF2142 were designed with the X-Fi DSP in mind in addition to using proper 3D audio APIs, as the highest sound quality settings can't be enabled without a proper X-Fi card.)
> 
> If we weren't talking multiplayer FPSs specifically, then the Thief series sets the benchmark for sound design and positioning in video games, in no small part due to how sound is so integral to the gameplay. Do note that all are DS3D (need ALchemy) and that some versions of ALchemy will act up with 1/2 or Deadly Shadows, while other versions work perfectly fine with both. (Thankfully, the ALchemy version included with the X-Fi Titanium HD's drivers falls into the latter category.)



You know, I think the Aleph One port of the Marathon series uses OpenAL in addition to OpenGL. That game should be about as old as the Descent series, but I remember thinking it was so cool reading in the manual that the game supported VR headsets, LOL. After MS bought Bungie and Ambrosia Software stopped developing games, I really did not have much reason to game on my Macs that I also used for artsy-fartsy crap. Crying shame most devs have given in to Microsoft's DirectX.

X-Fi Titanium HD... Not sure I'm $100 PC gaming audio curious, but at least with the games you mention I wouldn't have to upgrade from the NVIDIA GTS 250 graphics card I got for $70.

If I wanted to play BF2142 and Thief Gold or Deadly Shadows, what sound card and downloads would I need? Is there a capable step down from the Titanium HD that would still be equipped with the hardware 3D processing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MD = Mad Dogs, which is a modded T50RP by the Headfier Mr. Speakers. Apparently it sounds about 90% like the LCD2, but closed, and 1/4 of the price. Too bad it uses pleathers. Very highly regarded.


----------



## Evshrug

Way cool!
I had heard of the Thunderpants special before, hilarious name but so many people talking about it as the end-all audio producing experience when it was first released.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're the only commonly available closed planar magnetic headphones out too (the Fostex T50RP).

Right now, I believe there are 3 modded versions that are very popular.

Smeggy's Thunderpants
mrspeaker's Mad Dogs
And LFF's Paradox

The Thunderpants are the most well known of the modded ones.


----------



## TMRaven

Paradox.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks... I wasn't ever considering the T50RPs, until now. I could use a closed planar... 

Still, not until some legit modded T50RPs are done with velours.


----------



## Evshrug

tmraven said:


> Paradox.



Every headphone purchase comes with a lacquered "Jumbo Shrimp" plaque emblazioned with the words "Yes, we did it."
Ps do you have any words to say on O2 vs Little Dot amp?

And Mad, perhaps you feel strongly enough about velours that you can blaze the trail? You may not be really into DIY, but you aren't satisfied with the stock experience anymore, either.


----------



## TMRaven

Perhaps besides some slight variances due to tube coloration and subtly better instrument separation/clarity on the O2 perhaps due to a way better damping factor-- the two were virtually the same.  The most major and most appreciable differences for me: the O2's volume pot doesn't create noise when adjusting the volume, and the O2 also doesn't get hot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> And Mad, perhaps you feel strongly enough about velours that you can blaze the trail? You may not be really into DIY, but you aren't satisfied with the stock experience anymore, either.




No way. I'm terrible with my hands. Can't even do a damn oil change.

I'm fine with stock. The only reason I swapped velours on the HE400, is because that is all that is needed, and was praised by various people. Before people swapped velours, I had no desire to get the HE400, due to the pleather.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> MD = Mad Dogs, which is a modded T50RP by the Headfier Mr. Speakers. Apparently it sounds about 90% like the LCD2, but closed, and 1/4 of the price. Too bad it uses pleathers. Very highly regarded.


 
   
  He's currently experimenting with velours. On his main thread page he's getting donation pads to test and mod to work with to get that same sound on velours. If he can do that, I'm definitely in for one. Wish I had a spare velour set to donate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I kept the Pro 900, I'd have sent him my spare velours.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Haha, yeah Massive Attack has a unique sound that is easy to crave every once in a while, like Chinese food or Chipotle. Which brings "Paradise Circus" to mind, I'm a have to go listen to that for the first time on my Q's ^__^
> What are the MDs? My mind is stuck thinking Magnetic Drive...
> You know, I think the Aleph One port of the Marathon series uses OpenAL in addition to OpenGL. That game should be about as old as the Descent series, but I remember thinking it was so cool reading in the manual that the game supported VR headsets, LOL. After MS bought Bungie and Ambrosia Software stopped developing games, I really did not have much reason to game on my Macs that I also used for artsy-fartsy crap. Crying shame most devs have given in to Microsoft's DirectX.
> X-Fi Titanium HD... Not sure I'm $100 PC gaming audio curious, but at least with the games you mention I wouldn't have to upgrade from the NVIDIA GTS 250 graphics card I got for $70.
> If I wanted to play BF2142 and Thief Gold or Deadly Shadows, what sound card and downloads would I need? Is there a capable step down from the Titanium HD that would still be equipped with the hardware 3D processing?


 
   
  I didn't think Aleph One used OpenAL, but I admit that I haven't looked too hard into it or Marathon in general.
   
  The X-Fi Titanium HD is just what I currently use; I also have an Auzentech X-Fi Prelude in an older computer, and once had an Auzentech X-Fi Forte (then traded that for the Titanium HD because the other guy needed analog surround outputs and I didn't). Those are generally the more expensive, higher-quality cards.
   
  You could go for a used/refurbished X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) for $50 or less (any more and I'd suggest stepping up to one of the above cards), or if you don't mind the old PCI interface, older full-size X-Fi cards with heatsinks (in other words, cards that are NOT the "fake" XtremeAudio products without the actual X-Fi DSP) for $35 or less, depending on what eBay deals you can find. Those will be good enough to get the gaming features you're looking for. Then install this particular driver package, and you should be good to go. (I don't recall having any issues in Thief with that driver pack when setting up a friend's computer with a PCI X-Fi card.)
   
  Ah, and speaking of VR headsets, I once played Quake with a Forte VFX-1 over a decade ago. I want to get my hands on one of those just to set up an old system dedicated to MechWarrior 2, and pretend it's a neurohelmet. In particular, it has a head-tracking system that a lot of older games have special support for. (Unfortunately, my TrackIR 4 is too recent for all those DOS-era games, and DOSBox doesn't emulate the older head-tracking systems, either.)


----------



## Evshrug

Well, not many people had Marathon on their radar in general. I loved Marathon Infinity though. I cut the rest of my post so I could put it on Nameless' thread, don't want to derail things too much!


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

How do you think the Ultrasone HFI 780 will do with gaming + dolby headphones? I picked up a used pair on ebay for $118 because I needed something portable. I didn't realize how praised they are until after I bought them (I usually do my research but I found these last minute). Any thoughts?


----------



## Eric_C

NinjaSushi: I think you may just prefer bassier headphones for gaming. As everyone who's tried an O2 has said (and this corresponds with what I've read everywhere else), the amp is strong and clean--which is as much as one can expect from an amp. 
  I'd be cautious about using amps to boost bass. My thinking is that if the headphones were meant to be that bassy, they'd be that bassy; if they were, I wouldn't want to artificially cause the driver to flex so much.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Talking with their amp music guy he did point out how the O2 had a very clean sound. No hiss, no distortion, very clean. I did get to hear some M-50 and they sound good for music but I felt they drown out the vocals. It was a steely Dan song. 

The guy said the Q701 have great highs but mixed mids.


----------



## NamelessPFG

If not enough bass is an issue, isn't that what the EQ is for?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Talking with their amp music guy he did point out how the O2 had a very clean sound. No hiss, no distortion, very clean. I did get to hear some M-50 and they sound good for music but I felt they drown out the vocals. It was a steely Dan song.
> The guy said the Q701 have great highs but mixed mids.


 
   
  Sorry, I'm a bit lost here. What "amp music guy"?
  M50's known to have recessed mids. I think that's what you mean? "Drowned out" would mean the lows or highs were so boosted that they overshadowed the vocals, which are in the mids.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

eric_c said:


> Sorry, I'm a bit lost here. What "amp music guy"?
> M50's known to have recessed mids. I think that's what you mean? "Drowned out" would mean the lows or highs were so boosted that they overshadowed the vocals, which are in the mids.




It was a music store so all his experience was from studio recording, etc. I feel the M50 has drowned mids, he thinks my Q701 have drowned mids. I think the 701 have great mids and highs but that they don't really mix well on certain sound sources. I can distinguish all the difference sounds very well but it makes it sound cold almost. Like a lack of harmony. I still need to experience then more and haven't used them for music much. 

Competitive wise they are great fps cans but the 702 might be better with its less bass. Explosions and airplanes with that low rumble on the Q step on those delicate sounds like footsteps. 

I'd say their great headphones for entry level if you can afford it. That being said if I had the money I'd use the O2 amp's Nazi strict almost OCD feeling on the K702. For competitive uses as Mad pointed I imagine it would be great. No hissing at high volumes, no cracks or pops, drives highs well and excels at those soft, quiet sounds. 

Then I'd get a pair of closed backs with more bass for a movie and single player experience. Something with more immersion. I'm not sure if this is right but I'd say DT990 pro and M-Stage? Either way something that drowns away everything else and leaves you with only you and the experience. 

Any suggestions, comments, etc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pro is open. Though that bass isn't open like. 

I don't know how you can possible think the Q701 is mid recessed. It's slightly forward from balanced. You just may not be used to it's huge soundstage which doesn't place sounds directly in front of you. That is one complaint people have with the AKGs.The soundstage to some people sounds unnatural, making pretty much everything sound further than it is. I don't agree with this, but we all hear different.



The M50s are mid recessed by nature. As for the M50s, to me the mids recession is slight in the overall scheme of things. Certainly a lot less recessed than some bass/treble heavy headphones that cost twice as much.

If bass and treble is boosted on ANY headphone, mids are automatically going to be recessed. There is no objection. Some headphones pull it off better than others, but it doesn't change the fact that two boosted frequencies will always make another area recessed.

Boosted bass and mids = recessed/smooth/veiled treble

Boosted mids and highs = bass light

Boosted lows and highs = mid recessed


That is an absolute law in headphones.

If one frequency is boosted and the others are on the same level, it's usually considered quality. The Monster Turbines have boosted bass, but balanced mids and highs (documented, and I fully agree having spent the day with them). It's a pretty good sound signature. The HD598 is boosted in the mids, but balanced in the bass and treble. The HD598 is the best alternative I've heard from the Q701, if you want more mids.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 Pro is open. Though that bass isn't open like.
> I don't know how you can possible think the Q701 is mid recessed. It's slightly forward from balanced. You just may not be used to it's huge soundstage which doesn't place sounds directly in front of you. That is one complaint people have with the AKGs.The soundstage to some people sounds unnatural, making pretty much everything sound further than it is. I don't agree with this, but we all hear different.
> The M50s are mid recessed by nature. As for the M50s, to me the mids recession is slight in the overall scheme of things. Certainly a lot less recessed than some bass/treble heavy headphones that cost twice as much.
> If bass and treble is boosted on ANY headphone, mids are automatically going to be recessed. There is no objection. Some headphones pull it off better than others, but it doesn't change the fact that two boosted frequencies will always make another area recessed.
> ...




Lol. You miss understand me. I think the mids and highs are great, the music store "guru" said he felt the Q701 had muffled mids. Who knows. I like the O2 Q701 for fps but I also want a warmer/fuller sounding headphone for movies and single player games. I want another headphone - pre-amp combo that has more bass, closed headphones, and a richer, full sound.


----------



## audiophizile

Just an update on my hm5's. Highly recomend them to ppl wanting closed gaming cans. The headband isnt extremely comfortable but i had a pad from my old hd280s that i wrapped around it now its super cushy. They do need to be stretched as well. I have dvd/cd holder speaker stands that i put them on every night. With that theyre very comfy and the sound blows the pc350's away in every area from detail, clarity, positioning and also has better bass. Im very happy


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





audiophizile said:


> Just an update on my hm5's. Highly recomend them to ppl wanting closed gaming cans. The headband isnt extremely comfortable but i had a pad from my old hd280s that i wrapped around it now its super cushy. They do need to be stretched as well. I have dvd/cd holder speaker stands that i put them on every night. With that theyre very comfy and the sound blows the pc350's away in every area from detail, clarity, positioning and also has better bass. Im very happy


 

 I agree with you on the HM5s. The only hard part I am dealing with is the bass itself. Coming from DT990pro it is certainly a difference.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Lol. You miss understand me. I think the mids and highs are great, the music store "guru" said he felt the Q701 had muffled mids. Who knows. I like the O2 Q701 for fps but I also want a warmer/fuller sounding headphone for movies and single player games. I want another headphone - pre-amp combo that has more bass, closed headphones, and a richer, full sound.


 
   
  I suspect the D7000 might fit the bill, except maybe in isolation. 
  MLE?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup, that sounds like the D7000, but I dunno if he's willing to spend that much.

The sound doesn't leak out too badly, but it's not that great at keeping external noise out.


----------



## Phos

I hear the D5000 gets most of the way there, not sure where you can find one now though.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

I saw this and can't possibly imagine how their so cheap. Does anyone think this is legit? 

http://xgm.audiogoshop.com/denon-ahd7000-ultra-reference-overear-headphones-black_p32.html?ved=0CFYQgwgwAQ&ei=wQsaUP3lEqPr6wHI64HYBQ&sa=X&offer_id=B001EO9TM6


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd never buy unathorized, and I'm willing to bet they're probably D2000s with D7000 cups, or something.


----------



## Eric_C

When something looks too good to be true...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> When something looks too good to be true...




No kidding. I certainly wouldn't spend that much in hopes of it being legit.


----------



## Lisjak

Hey Mad Lust,
   
  I have read your guide and it helped me a lot. But I am in a bit of a dilemma on what to buy. What I would like to know is which headphone is the closest in sound quality compared to the Senn PC 360? Is it close to the 518 or 558. Or is it worse than both? 
   
  Would be really great if you could enlighten me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sorry I haven't tried either of those, but I did try the HD598. The PC360 is close to the HD598 (I'd say 90% there), but not as detailed, and is slightly better balanced (very balanced presentation, while the HD598 is mid-centric.)

If anything, it should compare to the HD558 as the HD558 is supposedly a warmer, less detailed variation of the HD598.


----------



## Lisjak

Thank you very much for your reply! You helped me a lot


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Where are Denon hp made?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I saw this and can't possibly imagine how their so cheap. Does anyone think this is legit?
> http://xgm.audiogoshop.com/denon-ahd7000-ultra-reference-overear-headphones-black_p32.html?ved=0CFYQgwgwAQ&ei=wQsaUP3lEqPr6wHI64HYBQ&sa=X&offer_id=B001EO9TM6


 
   
  Quick safety tip for when shopping online. The images at the bottom for McAfee and VeriSign should link you to their respective websites when clicked. Those don't, so I'd steer clear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ninjasushi2 said:


> Where are Denon hp made?




The Foster equipped Denons were built in China.


----------



## Evshrug

ninjasushi2 said:


> I saw this and can't possibly imagine how their so cheap. Does anyone think this is legit?
> http://xgm.audiogoshop.com/denon-ahd7000-ultra-reference-overear-headphones-black_p32.html?ved=0CFYQgwgwAQ&ei=wQsaUP3lEqPr6wHI64HYBQ&sa=X&offer_id=B001EO9TM6




That's the same site (or layout at least) that I saw the HE400 selling for redonkulous-cheap! Immediate warning bells that one seller goes so far out of line on price, and Axel... uh... Cloris' point about the security links going nowhere. Though I know it would be very easy for a fraudster to link to a legit site, so don't think you can 100% trust a site even if their pictures are linked correctly. That this site can't even muster up the ability to do basic website building techniques is just ::LOL::


----------



## PurpleAngel

Valve: OpenGL is faster than DirectX — even on Windows   
  http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows


----------



## ZzBOG

Hey guys.
  so I took the plunge and got Q701. Running the following setup now: PS3-------> Harman Kardon 730 -------> Astro Mixamp -------> Y-splitter  --------> Q701
                                                                                                                                                                                                            \-------> Sennheiser microphone (don't know the name but the quality is good)
   
  The soundstage is good.
   
  But the bass is lacking, explosions are not explosive enough (I am not a bass-head tho).
   
  Is it how the headphones will sound? Or am I missing something


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is how they sound. Though your receiver may not have the best internal amp for it.

The Q701 is basically bass neutral, and has the ability to bring out some good bass with EQ or bass boost. The bass by itself isn't strong, though I wouldn't say its completely lacking.


----------



## Phos

Why is the receiver upstream from the Mixamp?  If that's not a typo, you should change it such that the mixamp is connected to the PS3 via toslink and probably USB as well.  From my understanding newer mixamps can also be used for voice chat over USB on the PS3.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





phos said:


> Why is the receiver upstream from the Mixamp?  If that's not a typo, you should change it such that the mixamp is connected to the PS3 via toslink and probably USB as well.  From my understanding newer mixamps can also be used for voice chat over USB on the PS3.


 
   
  Many receivers allow full 7.1 pass-through from optical/coax. However, looking at the owners manual for that particular one I'm tempted to ask the same, as that receiver doesn't seem to have that functionality.


----------



## calpis

The correct setup really should be PS3>Mixamp>Receiver/amp>Headphones. A receiver that old most likely won't have any kind of optical passthrough and you're probably just playing in DH enhanced Stereo if that really is your chain.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





phos said:


> Why is the receiver upstream from the Mixamp?  If that's not a typo, you should change it such that the mixamp is connected to the PS3 via toslink and probably USB as well.  From my understanding newer mix-amps can also be used for voice chat over USB on the PS3.


 
  +1, you should be running optical from the PS3 straight into the mix-amp.
  Make sure optical is enable in the PS3's setup.
  Leave the receiver hooked up to the PS3's RCA outputs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, if the receiver has no pass through, the Mixamp should come first. If you happen to have the Mixamp 5.8, it comes with an optical passthrough. However, I'd prefer they ditch that, and turn that port into another input. One input is just stupid, especially considering how faulty optical switchers can be. I haven't had one that works well, so I have to manually plug in:

PS2
PS3
360
TV (for when I'm watching my PC with my headphones in my room).

Yeah, Four freaking devices. I can live with two inputs, as my PS2 and TV aren't used on the Mixamp much.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, if the receiver has no pass through, the Mixamp should come first. If you happen to have the Mixamp 5.8, it comes with an optical passthrough. However, I'd prefer they ditch that, and turn that port into another input. One input is just stupid, especially considering how faulty optical switchers can be. I haven't had one that works well, so I have to manually plug in:
> PS2
> PS3
> 360
> ...


 
  I'm guessing his HK 730 is over 20 years old, so no optical or any digital inputs or outputs.


----------



## ZzBOG

Whoa, so it's mixamp -> Receiver !?
  I thought I saw on Mixamp's manual that it was the other way around.
   
  Basically if I have just PS3-> mixamp - > Headphones, I don't get enough power (can't hear voices in microphone at all).
   
   
   
   
  No passthrough on mixamp.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





zzbog said:


> Whoa, so it's mixamp -> Receiver !?
> I thought I saw on Mixamp's manual that it was the other way around.
> 
> Basically if I have just PS3-> mixamp - > Headphones, I don't get enough power (can't hear voices in microphone at all).
> ...


 
  PS3 optical > Mixamp > Splitter> 3.5mm to RCA > Receiver > headphones.
                                                 >Mic
   
  That's how your setup should be. Amps in older receivers are pretty damn powerful so you'll be able to get enough volume for both chat and game audio.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zzbog said:


> Whoa, so it's mixamp -> Receiver !?
> I thought I saw on Mixamp's manual that it was the other way around.
> Basically if I have just PS3-> mixamp - > Headphones, I don't get enough power (can't hear voices in microphone at all).
> No pass through on mix-amp.


 
  I doubt the mix-amp manual was written with a 20 year old receiver in mind.
   
  "Can't hear voices in microphone at all?"
  Microphones do not project audio, you speak into the mic.
  You should be using the headphone cups to hear.
   
  Could be the setting with the PS3 are not set correctly for optical output?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just to be clear, the mic should obviously have its own input on the Y cable, while the Receiver (to headphones) gets the other.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





zzbog said:


> Whoa, so it's mixamp -> Receiver !?
> I thought I saw on Mixamp's manual that it was the other way around.
> 
> Basically if I have just PS3-> mixamp - > Headphones, I don't get enough power (can't hear voices in microphone at all).
> ...


 
  That set up assumes the receiver has an optical passthrough, you're using yours as an amp so you want to have the receiver downstream to boost the mixamp's signal.  I also don't get what the Y splitter is for.  The mixamp has a mic input right on it, and you set your PS3 to use the mixamp for chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dang, I'm thinking of the 5.8 which doesn't have a mic input. Than and possibly the older Mixamp (pre-2010).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry for the double post. Thought I hit edit.

Actually Phos, you're wrong. The other connection is the controller input for the 360. Without that cable that goes from the Mixamp to the 360's controller, you don't get voice chat.

There is no need for two inputs, as the A30/A40 have all come with the mic/audio in one line, with a special connector cable that goes to the Mixamp.

You need a Y cable, unless you have an Astro Headset.


----------



## calpis

The jack on the mixamp is a headset jack (mic and headphone in one plug). the other jack is for the xbox controller only. The Y splitter splits the headset jack into a mic jack and headphone jack so you can use a PC headset that has a mic and headphone jack with the mixamp. Additionally you can't use a stereo Y splitter with the mixamp and expect it to split the mic and headphone audio.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry for the double post. Thought I hit edit.
> Actually Phos, you're wrong. The other connection is the controller input for the 360. Without that cable that goes from the Mixamp to the 360's controller, you don't get voice chat.
> There is no need for two inputs, as the A30/A40 have all come with the mic/audio in one line, with a special connector cable that goes to the Mixamp.
> You need a Y cable, unless you have an Astro Headset.


 
  Oh the mixamp uses a TRRS?  Strange choice.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





phos said:


> Oh the mixamp uses a TRRS?  Strange choice.


 
   
  Yup. See diagram on page 9: http://qa.astrogaming.com/manuals/MixAmp_manual.pdf
  The front of the current MixAmp is still the same as my older version--headset port on left, Xbox controller chat port on right.


----------



## ZzBOG

guys so where in receiver do I plug in the cable?
   
  it has usual ins (AUX1/ AUX2) and some TAPE_OUT.
   
  There is no 3.5 Jack IN on receiver, only headphone out.
   
  Should I do this:
   
  Mixamp --------- headphone_out ----- Jack-to_RCA cable --- Receiver:AUX_IN
              \_____microphone
   
   
  ??
   
   
  Thanks for patience ))


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, you need a 3.5mm male to RCA male cable between the Mixamp and Receiver (or 3.5mm male/male + a 3.5mm female to RCA male), and plug it into one of your AUX Ins. Assuming your AUX ins are the typical ReD/White RCA inputs.


----------



## ZzBOG

great thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here to help.

Also, when doing this setup, max out the Mixamp's volume (or nearly max it), and control the volume with your receiver.


----------



## Dyaems

does the seller of the DX mic ships internationally? or is it a bad choice due to shipping and taxes or a chance of breaking the mic during shipping?
   
  not sure if i want to order and forget, then when it arrives it goes directly to the trash bin
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  edit: oooooo 500 posts


----------



## calpis

DX is based in china and ship worldwide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's from China, and I get it here in the US. Not sure where you're from, but for the $3 or so, it's a very low risk, high reward gamble. Regardless of forgetting it or not, it's gonna take a long time for it to reach you, so don't stress about that.

My clip doesn't have the branding on there, unlike the image, but it is the same mic.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

purpleangel said:


> I doubt the mix-amp manual was written with a 20 year old receiver in mind.
> 
> *"Can't hear voices in microphone at all?"
> Microphones do not project audio, you speak into the mic.
> ...




LMAO!! You smart ass.. lol..


----------



## HyperionXL

I need a desktop amp/dac for my q701s. I play a bit of battlefield but mostly need it for an easy to use volume/eq control next to me while I play movies, games, flight sim, etc. 
   
  Here is what I have a selection from: 
http://munkonggadget.com/product_346681_th
http://munkonggadget.com/product_150311_th
   
  I could order from the US or wherever, but tax and time it takes to ship sucks.
  Around a $300 budget or less would be nice.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

mad lust envy said:


> Here to help.
> Also, when doing this setup, max out the Mixamp's volume (or nearly max it), and control the volume with your receiver.




Does the same theory apply to all amps, such as my O2, or only his receiver?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Does the same theory apply to all amps, such as my O2, or only his receiver?


 
   
  To all amps.
   
  You'll come to the same conclusion by trial and error: if you put your MixAmp at 20%, connect it to an O2, you'll find you have to crank the O2 volume quite high to reach the same decibel level (by estimation, not measurement).
   
  It's a more efficient setup to crank the MixAmp high and use the second amp to attenuate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hyperionxl said:


> I need a desktop amp/dac for my q701s. I play a bit of battlefield but mostly need it for an easy to use volume/eq control next to me while I play movies, games, flight sim, etc.
> 
> Here is what I have a selection from:
> http://munkonggadget.com/product_346681_th
> ...




The Audio-GD Fun should be quite the DAC/AMP for you, assuming you can afford it. It's like my NFB5 with an actual line in. Dunno what the price is converted to US currency.


----------



## Ztrains

So my DX mic finally came yesterday and my friends all say it sounds much worse than the Zalman.  I did tests and it couldn't even pick up my voice unless i had it right under my mouth.  I guess I got a bad one :/


----------



## NinjaSushi2

eric_c said:


> To all amps.
> 
> You'll come to the same conclusion by trial and error: if you put your MixAmp at 20%, connect it to an O2, you'll find you have to crank the O2 volume quite high to reach the same decibel level (by estimation, not measurement).
> 
> It's a more efficient setup to crank the MixAmp high and use the second amp to attenuate.




Good to know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ztrains said:


> So my DX mic finally came yesterday and my friends all say it sounds much worse than the Zalman.  I did tests and it couldn't even pick up my voice unless i had it right under my mouth.  I guess I got a bad one :/




That's odd... it's the polar opposite of what I've experienced with two DX mics.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hyperionxl said:


> I need a desktop amp/dac for my q701s. I play a bit of battlefield but mostly need it for an easy to use volume/eq control next to me while I play movies, games, flight sim, etc.
> 
> Here is what I have a selection from:
> http://munkonggadget.com/product_346681_th
> ...


 
   
  Quick question: are you already using some sort of sound card, or are you using integrated motherboard audio? (I doubt you're talking about console gaming because flight sims don't exist on consoles.)
   
  Generally speaking, for PC gaming, I'm more likely to recommend a good internal sound card and an external amp (easily done with $300), or a cheap sound card with all the relevant gaming features, an external DAC with S/PDIF input, and then a discrete amp.


----------



## iamshakes

I wanted to say thanks Mad Lust Envy, been stalking these forms for a while and without a large budget bought the CAL! as i saw you recommended them on a few different threads.  I couldn't be happier right now and can start to save pennies for an upgrade.


----------



## ZzBOG

So after all 
   
  Q701 -> Mixamp -> Amp downstream is a damn good thing.
   
  Q701 seemed lacking in bass before, now it is just perfect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No problem shakes. 

ZzBOG, yeah, that's because the amp wasn't doing absolutely anything for the Q701 before. The only power the Q701 was getting was from the Mixamp. Now, you're getting the amp's power.

You also weren't getting Dolby Headphone before. You were getting an expanded stereo, and possibly Pro Logic II's DH, which is inferior.


----------



## Evshrug

zzbog said:


> So after all
> 
> Q701 -> Mixamp -> Amp downstream is a damn good thing.
> 
> Q701 seemed lacking in bass before, now it is just perfect.




You mean...
Q701 <-- Amp (receiver In your case) <-- Mixamp <-- Console
 Mic <--/
Right? Remember, lotsa people read this thread... Glad you found a solution!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry it's taking quite awhile to get the HE400 impressions up. Don't have much time to game, and my attention is focused elsewhere. It will come eventually. Right now, with little use, I feel an 8.5 for fun, 7.5-8 for competitive. Still unsure on it's competitive score, as I feel that rear positional cues may not be a strength on them (just as they weren't on the HE-4), but slightly better than the DT880s in that regard. In any case, I can still whoop some ass on BLOPS with them, but they aren't rear wall hacks like the K/Q701/AD700/HD598/PC360. even the D7000 has better positional cues.

That being said, I haven't tried them enough to say whether this is accurate or not.

In other news, I'd really like to try the DT880 Pros for gaming. I believe they deserve a chance, as the Pro models seems to do positioning better than the Premiums.


----------



## ZzBOG

right yeah the arrows in my Q701 set up should be pointing in the direction of the headphones as Evshrug pointed out.


----------



## Hailin

I finally got my CALs. Unfortunately for my isolation purposes they are just not going to cut it. Though the HM5s are now officially sitting on the shelf next to my Superlux. The CALs have taken over as my headphone to listen to during the day. Only change I have made is putting the super soft plush HM5 pads on them. I am not to sure how Creative/Denon/Foster developed these headphones but I heard absolutely no change what so ever on the pad replacement. The HM5 pads are much larger but fit perfectly, they are also warmer which I am not thrilled about but I will take the comfort over the heat. Makes me wonder if since the Shure940 pads fit on the HM5 whether they will slide onto the CALs. Wish I could afford to make that replacement for fun. 
   
  This is a headphone that acts really different from my E9 vs straight out of my Iphone4s. The Iphone makes them very boomy, the e9/e17 tightens the bass right up. Though the Amp combo can make the highs a little harsh on some songs. Not as harsh as the HM5s(Due to it's extremely balanced sound.) The CALs have brought my love of liquid Drum and Bass/ chill Dubstep back into my life while my partner and brother make WAY to much BLOODY noise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  So I will be saving for the DT770pro 250ohms after all. Could be a couple of months till I am able to pull it off financially unless I get a bonus. The CALs/HM5 pads will do me till then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So which do you prefer? The CAL or HM5?

Also, what's wrong with the CAL pads that you swapped them out? I found them very soft and comfortable, heat issues aside.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So which do you prefer? The CAL or HM5?
> Also, what's wrong with the CAL pads that you swapped them out? I found them very soft and comfortable, heat issues aside.


 
  I prefer the CAL. 
   
  The pads are fine on the CALs just find them a little small. It is the same issue I had with the Koss DJ100. I can feel the edges of the pads on the edges of my ears. Just didn't find them as comfortable. Also with the CALs don't feel like I have my head trapped in a vice. HM5 headphones are very very tight headache inducing tight.
   
  During console gaming I will still use my DT990s. Since I have control of the TV volume then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yes, that's understandable. The pads are indeed just barely big enough to fit my ears, and I can feel my ears touching the sides. I like their small size. It keeps it from having so much pleather on skin contact.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ah yes, that's understandable. The pads are indeed just barely big enough to fit my ears, and I can feel my ears touching the sides. I like their small size. It keeps it from having so much pleather on skin contact.


 
  Yah it really is going to be a user preference thing for sure.


----------



## Ralox

When will you do a review of the Hifiman He-400? It seems like you're in love with them, but how would they compare to the Q701, Ultrasone 900, D7000, etc for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

While they have amazing SQ, its pretty much standard for gaming. Preliminary score would be 8.5 for fun, 7.5 for competitive. Still need more testing to make sure rear positional cues are easy to discern. So far, its as good as the HE-4 in that regard, meaning its good to somewhat great for competitive.


----------



## robwalton

Hey Mad Lust, I am going to buy my first set of decent gaming headphones to go with my Mixamp this week, since my girlfriend is going to France (more expensive than in the US, but waaay cheaper then here in Brazil).
   
  Based on your recommendations here, I have the option to get the CAL! for 70 euro or spend 149 and get a DT 770 or DT 990 Pro.
   
  Since I am looking 100% for immersion, and will be driving them off my Mixamp (that is connected via optical to my PC), do you think the 990s are the better buy quality wise? Are open headphones more immersive (I never used decent open headphones) than closed ones?
   
  Of for the money I should just get the CAL! and be happy with it, since it is way cheaper?
   
  While I have your attention, are any of these headphones going to sound good of my 4S and Vita? Not my primary concern, but it would be good to know!
   
  Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hailin said:


> The pads are fine on the CALs just find them a little small.  I can feel the edges of the pads on the edges of my ears. Just didn't find them as comfortable. A


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The pads are indeed just barely big enough to fit my ears, and I can feel my ears touching the sides.


 
   
  You can do what I did and "phatpad" mod them by sticking a bit of rubber tubing under the cups.  Makes them more spacious and might help the soundstage too (I have just the back spaced out which angles the drivers slightly).
   
  The CALs are very very sweet for the price.


----------



## Evshrug

robwalton said:


> Hey Mad Lust, I am going to buy my first set of decent gaming headphones to go with my Mixamp this week, since my girlfriend is going to France (more expensive than in the US, but waaay cheaper then here in Brazil).
> 
> Based on your recommendations here, I have the option to get the CAL! for 70 euro or spend 149 and get a DT 770 or DT 990 Pro.
> 
> ...




The CAL! is indeed sweet, but... how often are you going to have a chance to get headphones cheaper from an international source? My opinion and advice is to seize the opportunity and get your "endgame" headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

robwalton said:


> Hey Mad Lust, I am going to buy my first set of decent gaming headphones to go with my Mixamp this week, since my girlfriend is going to France (more expensive than in the US, but waaay cheaper then here in Brazil).
> 
> Based on your recommendations here, I have the option to get the CAL! for 70 euro or spend 149 and get a DT 770 or DT 990 Pro.
> 
> ...




The DT990 pro is considerably better than both, IMHo. HOWEVER, both the 990s and 770s need a decent amp to bring out a lot of out them, and sound pretty bad without one. If you can't afford at LEAST a Fiio E11, don't bother with those two headphones. Get the CAL if you can't afford an amp.


----------



## robwalton

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 pro is considerably better than both, IMHo. HOWEVER, both the 990s and 770s need a decent amp to bring out a lot of out them, and sound pretty bad without one. If you can't afford at LEAST a Fiio E11, don't bother with those two headphones. Get the CAL if you can't afford an amp.


   

  Hmm this is interesting, so are you saying that the 2010 Astro Mixamp won't do a great job with the DT990 Pro or DT770 Pro?
   
  I guess the whole point of this purchase for me was to better utilize the Mixamp, if I start amp shopping, then I think I'll need to do a lot more researching. And I would hate to just retire my Mixamp!
   
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> The CAL! is indeed sweet, but... how often are you going to have a chance to get headphones cheaper from an international source? My opinion and advice is to seize the opportunity and get your "endgame" headphones.


 
   
  While I do want to seize the moment, I am sure I will have more opportunities in the following months from friends and family (or who knows, maybe I'll go to America if I can get some time off from work), and so I don't want to rush things.
   
  If my Mixamp does a crappy job with the DT brothers, then I'll just stick with the CAL! for now and later on get a decent amp + headphone combo.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Oh I must have forgot you having a Mixamp. If you're not using a mic, the Mixamp will be fine alone. If you plan on attaching a mic, you will need an amp.


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## Ztrains

So I found out my mixamp makes it to where the right side doesn't work as well as the left side, I tried with 2 different headphones and flipped them around and determined that was it.  has anyone else had this problem or know what to do?


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## robwalton

Oh, that's better then!
   
  I will use it mainly to play single player, so a mic wont be that necessary. And if I really need one, I can just run it off the PC, right?
   
  So I guess I'll get the DT 990 Pro then, seems like it is your top pick.
   
  Thanks!


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## Eric_C

Quote: 





ztrains said:


> So I found out my mixamp makes it to where the right side doesn't work as well as the left side, I tried with 2 different headphones and flipped them around and determined that was it.  has anyone else had this problem or know what to do?


 
   
  That's called channel imbalance. Sometimes poorly made amps do that, or just a poor amp/headphone match will do that.
  I experience it a lot with my MixAmp and headphones. 
   
  Here's what I do:
  1. With the MixAmp + headphones only, figure out what volume the sound is both balanced and *more than *loud enough.
  2. Connect a second amp (doesn't have to be expensive or anything, even the humble Fiio E6 will prob work fine) in between the MixAmp and headphone: MixAmp > Amp > Headphone
  3. Crank the MixAmp to the volume level from step 1.
  4. Use the second amp to lower the volume to a comfortable level


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## Mad Lust Envy

The mini Fiio amps don't add almost any real volume to the Mixamp's volume, FYI. Though if you're having channel imbalance issues, I guess that's a workaround. If your Mixamp
s volume is set too low, the Fiio won't really help that unless you get at least the E11.


----------



## Ztrains

I don't have a second amp though, and can't really afford to get one/don't want to.  Is the other option to just turn it up a bit louder?  Also, is mine defected possibly or is that normal (I know it's not just my main headphones cause I tested it out with 2)


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## Mad Lust Envy

Turn it louder, and lower the game/voice knob. You can pretty much max out the Mixamp volume, and control the volume with the game/voice knob if you want. the further to the voice side it is, the lower the volume. If you're not using a mic, this knob won't negatively affect anything other than helping your volume/balance issues.


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## Eric_C

x2 what MLE said. If there's no distortion and it's just channel imbalance, I really wouldn't worry. Are you gaming on console or PC? You can limit the system volume on PC, if it's too loud.


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## untouchablemike

What would you guys recommend for an all-round for games and movies?  Most of my competitive gaming is not FPS-related, so immersion is the biggest factor.  I currently own Denon AD-2000 and a FiiO E17.


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## robwalton

Well, while I am far from an expert, and am still waiting on my first set of good cans, I came here asking for the same thing as you, immersion.
   
  After some research I was set on getting the CAL!, but ended up ordering the DT990 Pro, since I found them for a good prices, and they seemed to be very good at "movie theater" like experiences.
   
  But I guess you need to define your budget first and if you want Open/Closed, since depending on these factors the recommendations might change a lot.


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## Mad Lust Envy

untouchablemike said:


> What would you guys recommend for an all-round for games and movies?  Most of my competitive gaming is not FPS-related, so immersion is the biggest factor.  I currently own Denon AD-2000 and a FiiO E17.




You already own the D2000. Pretty sure those would rate very high on my list for immersion. All you're missing is a dolby headphone device to make them even better. If you play on consoles, invest in a DSS (the first one, I don't have experience with the DSS2 which doesn't use Dolby Headphone) if you don't use a mic, or a Mixamp if you do, or want the best device. If you play on PC go to the PC guide by Nameless, and ask what soundcard to get.


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## Ztrains

I'm on an xbox and am always in a party with my friends talking so that won't work well :/


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## Mad Lust Envy

What won't? Get a Mixamp and an external mic. The D2000 should be quite fine.


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## Ztrains

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What won't? Get a Mixamp and an external mic. The D2000 should be quite fine.


 
  I am a different person, I am the one with the audio balance issues.  I forgot to quote so it looked weird.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, my mistake. XD

Hmm... have you had your Mixamp long? You can try and contact Astro and see if they can fix the issue for you. I've heard of channel imbalance, but I have honestly never experienced it with my amps. I had a very old Mixamp, and the 5.8, neither which had an issue with it.


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## Ztrains

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh, my mistake. XD
> Hmm... have you had your Mixamp long? You can try and contact Astro and see if they can fix the issue for you.


 
  Yeah I sent them an email, I've had it for maybe 3 weeks, but I got it off of Ebay because it's the 5.8 one which they don't sell anymore so who knows how long the previous owner had it.


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## Mad Lust Envy

What did they say? They do sell it, just in bundles... the 5.8 hasn't been out a year, so hopefully the warranty will hold.


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## Ztrains

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What did they say? They do sell it, just in bundles... the 5.8 hasn't been out a year, so hopefully the warranty will hold.


 
  He told me to try 3 things but I could only do the check connections one because the other 2 referred to using an a40 or a30, so I just sent another email back and hopefully it works out :S


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## Mad Lust Envy

This is why I don't buy things used, especially off Ebay. I would here on Head-fi, off people that have been here and have had good rep.


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## Evshrug

Hey Mad,
I know you don't own this, but how do you think the creative recon3D stacks up to the Mixamp?
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1344395655&sr=1-1&keywords=creative+sound+blaster+recon3d+usb

I know you don't own it, but it looks like it has everything the Mixamp does, and more features & compatability to boot. For $99. If your Mixamps broke, would you consider buying this Recon3D to replace it instead?

P.S. sound output on my Mac (music, movies, current Starcraft II instal) stopped working, still isn't fixed yet. This external soundcard is pretty much the only upgrade option for Mac under $1000.


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## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey Mad,
> I know you don't own this, but how do you think the creative recon3D stacks up to the Mixamp?
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1344395655&sr=1-1&keywords=creative+sound+blaster+recon3d+usb
> I know you don't own it, but it looks like it has everything the Mixamp has, and more features & compatability to boot. For $99. If your Mixamps broke, would you consider buying this Recon3D to replace it instead?
> P.S. sound output on my Mac stopped working, still isn't fixed yet.


 
   
  Having owned the Recon3D and currently owning the Mixamp my personal preference is towards the Mixamp. I felt that the Recon3D just didn't do the positioning as well the Mixamp. However, the Recon3D gives you a lot more bells and whistles and can be used USB off a computer (with the supplied drivers) so it is a more well rounded device. I felt like "Scout Mode" basically just EQ'd up the treble so the sharp sounds came through more pronounced, but I turned it off within moments of enabling it in TF2 as it really irritated my ears. THX is some fine processing, and I felt that the Recon3D did movies better than the Mixamp. But at the end of the day, I just wasn't sold on the Recon3D and instead turned around and purchased myself the Mixamp. It's simpler to use and the positioning was better to me. The amp inside the Recon3D also isn't as nice as the one in the Mixamp, which did a better job driving my headphones.
   
  I know it wasn't directed to me, but as someone who has owned both there's my 2 cents.
   
  I should also note that since you're looking to use it as an external sound card, the Recon3D is a good choice. While I feel the Mixamp is superior for positioning, it sounds like it won't work with your current situation too easily. You'd need some kind of additional USB card to supply 5/7.1 out to the Mixamp. For my personal laptop I use the Asus U3 when traveling to get my Dolby Headphone, but sadly it's not Mac compatible


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## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks for answering for me Axel. it's what I heard of the Recon, which is why I haven't looked at it twice. What I wanna know about it is if it works for DTS? That is the single biggest shortcoming on the Mixamp.

But I'd probably prefer to get the DSS2 if it works for DTS... as I hear that the positioning is quite good on it.


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## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thanks for answering for me Axel. it's what I heard of the Recon, which is why I haven't looked at it twice. What I wanna know about it is if it works for DTS? That is the single biggest shortcoming on the Mixamp.
> But I'd probably prefer to get the DSS2 if it works for DTS... as I hear that the positioning is quite good on it.


 
   
  Sadly, no. No DTS support, at least not when I had it, which wasn't long after launch. I assume that fact hasn't changed.
   
  Actually, I stand corrected, I just found a promotional comparison that does claim it has DTS. Interesting.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I'll replace my mixamp once something affordable can do Dolby Headphone-like processing and DTS. The only thing I've personally heard so far that does that is the damn uber expensive Headzone...


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## AxelCloris

Dangit, no idea how to put images under a spoiler to save space. Oh well. And I actually think I misread this, it has DTS connect. ENcoding, no DEcoding. I apparently have issues reading tonight.


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## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Having owned the Recon3D and currently owning the Mixamp my personal preference is towards the Mixamp. I felt that the Recon3D just didn't do the positioning as well the Mixamp. However, the Recon3D gives you a lot more bells and whistles and can be used USB off a computer (with the supplied drivers) so it is a more well rounded device. I felt like "Scout Mode" basically just EQ'd up the treble so the sharp sounds came through more pronounced, but I turned it off within moments of enabling it in TF2 as it really irritated my ears. THX is some fine processing, and I felt that the Recon3D did movies better than the Mixamp. But at the end of the day, I just wasn't sold on the Recon3D and instead turned around and purchased myself the Mixamp. It's simpler to use and the positioning was better to me. The amp inside the Recon3D also isn't as nice as the one in the Mixamp, which did a better job driving my headphones.
> 
> I know it wasn't directed to me, but as someone who has owned both there's my 2 cents.
> 
> I should also note that since you're looking to use it as an external sound card, the Recon3D is a good choice. While I feel the Mixamp is superior for positioning, it sounds like it won't work with your current situation too easily. You'd need some kind of additional USB card to supply 5/7.1 out to the Mixamp. For my personal laptop I use the Asus U3 when traveling to get my Dolby Headphone, but sadly it's not Mac compatible


 
   
  I was going to ask if you were exclusively talking console gaming for a moment, but then you mentioned that you have a laptop and a Xonar U3 for your PC Dolby Headphone fix.
   
  What I'm curious about on the Recon3D is how well it handles DirectSound3D and OpenAL games, more specifically how well the positioning works in those. I doubt it supports hardware acceleration like the X-Fi internal cards (but not the USB ones) did, which is a cause for concern.


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## AxelCloris

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I was going to ask if you were exclusively talking console gaming for a moment, but then you mentioned that you have a laptop and a Xonar U3 for your PC Dolby Headphone fix.
> 
> What I'm curious about on the Recon3D is how well it handles DirectSound3D and OpenAL games, more specifically how well the positioning works in those. I doubt it supports hardware acceleration like the X-Fi internal cards (but not the USB ones) did, which is a cause for concern.


 
   
  I gotta be honest, I only had it for about 2 weeks before I sent it back, and sonic memory is sketchy. I had both the Mixamp and the Recon3D side by side for only about 4-5 days, not all that long. During that time I did play Portal, and I felt that it did a great job for an external sound card. Portal is the only game I know I own that does DirectSound3D and Dolby Digital. I've used the Mixamp with my PC as well for Portal and I feel that while the front and back positioning is better on the Mixamp with Dolby, I feel that the up and down positioning was a bit better on the DirectSound3D. Normally I don't pay attention to up and down sounds but with Portal and flying around it's pretty easy to notice. I fell the areas off to the side sounded pretty close. Again, this is all going off memory, so I can't say what I'm remembering is actually what I heard.
   
  One thing I am curious about, and you might know this answer Nameless, but since the Recon3D doesn't do hardware acceleration for OpenAL/DS3D would the difference with a marginally better CPU be noticeable? I'm curious what the ROI is on that kind of thing.


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## Phos

More that $1000 worth of audio equipment, let's put it to some good use:


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## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Having owned the Recon3D and currently owning the Mixamp my personal preference is towards the Mixamp. I felt that the Recon3D just didn't do the positioning as well the Mixamp. However, the Recon3D gives you a lot more bells and whistles and can be used USB off a computer (with the supplied drivers) so it is a more well rounded device. I felt like "Scout Mode" basically just EQ'd up the treble so the sharp sounds came through more pronounced, but I turned it off within moments of enabling it in TF2 as it really irritated my ears. THX is some fine processing, and I felt that the Recon3D did movies better than the Mixamp. But at the end of the day, I just wasn't sold on the Recon3D and instead turned around and purchased myself the Mixamp. It's simpler to use and the positioning was better to me. The amp inside the Recon3D also isn't as nice as the one in the Mixamp, which did a better job driving my headphones.
> 
> I know it wasn't directed to me, but as someone who has owned both there's my 2 cents.
> 
> I should also note that since you're looking to use it as an external sound card, the Recon3D is a good choice. While I feel the Mixamp is superior for positioning, it sounds like it won't work with your current situation too easily. You'd need some kind of additional USB card to supply 5/7.1 out to the Mixamp. For my personal laptop I use the Asus U3 when traveling to get my Dolby Headphone, but sadly it's not Mac compatible




It's certainly fine to get your response, actually its very valuable to hear a user experience beyond spec speculation.

Since both the Mixamp and Recon3D have the Dolby headphone codec for handling 5.1 surround virtualization, it's hard to size up how they can create positioning all that differently. The differences you might've heard could be due to the better amping though.

Now on PC, for the games supporting 3D audio instead of a Dolby codec that is limited to specific direction channels (if I understand correctly), it makes much obvious sense to me that height can be represented more realistically with OpenAL than Dolby Headphone. The ability to adjust the EQ's (at least the THX mode) and save a custom preset for when you plug the Recon3D into a console sounds extra enticing, as does the chat smart volume and background noise filter. Hopefully Scout mode can be adjusted too: I like the idea in gaming of making quiet sounds a little louder in the mix, but EQing up a treble spike sounds unpleasant. Scout mode has mixed reviews.

About Nameless' concern about hardware accelleration, I dug up some info from my research this morning. In a review of the Asus XONAR XD, they quoted Asus in explaining how their software emulation of EAX 5.0 would make negligible performance impact in *these days of single-threaded games on multi-core computers with massive computational power.* In the Recon3D, it actually does have its own quad-core processor to handle all the digital sound decoding and DAC activities, so it should offload the sound duties from your PC's CPU & GPU. Although, I still think its worth mentioning that I haven't seen as much performance difference since when I decided 8 channels of sound would be enough in Marathon on my non-powerPC Mac in the 90's. It seems only one Creative internal soundcard had its own dedicated RAM for audio in supported games, that "supported" term brings up a yellow flag in my mind.

Oh by the way, while I'm writing, I've seen too many conflicting things about gaming on Windows 7 home: does it allow games from the XP era to play, or are many going to require Win7 Pro?

If I didn't care about Mac audio, I'd probably just get the Creative X-Fi Go! for $30 (similar to Xonar U3 but cheaper and with native EAX support) and forget XBox virtual surround until I move and can perminantly set up my Yamaha receiver, but... the Recon3D seems to do it all for stereo headphones and speakers, I might even sell the Yamaha and just use a cheaper integrated amp until I can afford a really nice receiver.

Here are the reviews I read on the Recon3D, if anyone is interested in sources & journalism:
http://www.techspot.com/products/sound-cards/creative-soundblaster-recon3d-usb.80990/


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## Evshrug

phos said:


> More that $1000 worth of audio equipment, let's put it to some good use:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/v/V2XGp5ix8HE



Lmao! Never saw what before... There's a new taco @ the 'Bell, it's called Catchy Supreme.


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## Fegefeuer

Yeah, I wish Astro would bring out a Mixamp with better signal quality since the Mixamp totally pales vs. a Xonar STX. No contest. You could consider expensive headphones a waste on the Mixamp. Is there still no other/better alternative to the Mixamp?
   
  I still haven't hadn't much time for a T90 and the Mixamp (played BF3 on PC but you know how BF3 cheats with prebaked sounds and below average positioning) but what I liked so far is the T90s clarity and high resolution (it really "opens up and "clarifies" the Mixamp). The bass characteristics are different than the DT990, the subbass is stronger and technically better, more precise, same for the mids (which are much better). Highs are less pronounced but can become sibilant in certain songs, though not like DT990 or Ultrasones. It's unfair to compare both though, the DT990 is not in the same league. Soundstage is great, it's not a HD800 or a K/Q701 (which I don't like) but it's out of the head and very 3D. Positional Accuracy is very good.
   
  I am still amazed with Bioshock + CMSS-3D + EAX HD. That's 2007. Industry is in a sad state regarding audio technology though there are notable examples like Killzone using wavetracing and occlusion via their SPUs. 
   
  Really hope the rumours about PS4 and its Audio DSP are true.


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## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I was going to ask if you were exclusively talking console gaming for a moment, but then you mentioned that you have a laptop and a Xonar U3 for your PC Dolby Headphone fix.
> 
> What I'm curious about on the Recon3D is how well it handles DirectSound3D and OpenAL games, more specifically how well the positioning works in those. I doubt it supports hardware acceleration like the X-Fi internal cards (but not the USB ones) did, which is a cause for concern.


 
   
  I don't know what it does on the PC (no need when you can get internal cards) but on the consoles it can't do more than DHP since it receives no positional information of single voices/streams, just the processed stuff.


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## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, I wish Astro would bring out a Mixamp with better signal quality since the Mixamp totally pales vs. a Xonar STX. No contest. You could consider expensive headphones a waste on the Mixamp. Is there still no other/better alternative to the Mixamp?
> 
> I still haven't hadn't much time for a T90 and the Mixamp (played BF3 on PC but you know how BF3 cheats with prebaked sounds and below average positioning) but what I liked so far is the T90s clarity and high resolution (it really "opens up and "clarifies" the Mixamp). The bass characteristics are different than the DT990, the subbass is stronger and technically better, more precise, same for the mids (which are much better). Highs are less pronounced but can become sibilant in certain songs, though not like DT990 or Ultrasones. It's unfair to compare both though, the DT990 is not in the same league. Soundstage is great, it's not a HD800 or a K/Q701 (which I don't like) but it's out of the head and very 3D. Positional Accuracy is very good.
> 
> ...




Beyerdynamic Headzone, which costs over a grand. I owned it briefly, and while the SQ was better than the Mixamp, the positional cues were similar. I'd be happy with a Mixamp with a black noise floor, and DTS decoding.


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## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, I wish Astro would bring out a Mixamp with better signal quality since the Mixamp totally pales vs. a Xonar STX. No contest. You could consider expensive headphones a waste on the Mixamp. Is there still no other/better alternative to the Mixamp?
> 
> I still haven't hadn't much time for a T90 and the Mixamp (played BF3 on PC but you know how BF3 cheats with prebaked sounds and below average positioning) but what I liked so far is the T90s clarity and high resolution (it really "opens up and "clarifies" the Mixamp). The bass characteristics are different than the DT990, the subbass is stronger and technically better, more precise, same for the mids (which are much better). Highs are less pronounced but can become sibilant in certain songs, though not like DT990 or Ultrasones. It's unfair to compare both though, the DT990 is not in the same league. Soundstage is great, it's not a HD800 or a K/Q701 (which I don't like) but it's out of the head and very 3D. Positional Accuracy is very good.
> 
> ...


 
   
  There's the Beyerdynamic Headzone that Mad Lust Envy just mentioned, as well as the Smyth Realiser. Sorry about your wallet.
   
  I still don't have any hands-on time with the Mixamp, but I do have a JVC/Victor SU-DH1. Unfortunately, there's a very audible noise floor with the HTF600, and I really don't think it would do my Stax setup justice if such an obvious problem presents itself on a $30 headphone. I just wish I had an understanding of its internals so I can preserve the DAC/DSP parts while building a much cleaner analog audio section around them and maybe even add chat mixing like the Mixamp in case I ever need it.
   
  ...Wait a minute, did you say that the PS3 Killzone titles use _wavetracing_ in their audio engine? That's something I haven't heard of in gaming audio ever since Aureal got bankrupted by legal fees and ate up by Creative, just for A3D and its wavetracing to be dropped and buried in favor of Creative's own EAX. I have a feeling that modern general-purpose GPU designs would be particularly suited to wavetracing if they can do visual raytracing in real-time, but it doesn't seem like anyone has even bothered with the thought of GPU-accelerated audio.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Nameless, the Mixamp's noise floor is almost dead silent with harder to drive headphones like the 600ohm Beyers, K701/Q701, etc. I have to put it up real loud to get noticeable hiss with the HE400 (which is relatively efficient for a planar).


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## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nameless, the Mixamp's noise floor is almost dead silent with harder to drive headphones like the 600ohm Beyers, K701/Q701, etc. I have to put it up real loud to get noticeable hiss with the HE400 (which is relatively efficient for a planar).


 
   
  Hmmm, you think it's a matter of impedance? Come to think of it, whenever I break out the vintage Sansui SS-20 (that has individual volume and tone controls on each earcup for whatever reason), turning the volume dials down and raising the source volume generally gets around the hiss.
   
  On the other hand, that sort of hiss is generally fixed-volume, no matter what volume setting you use at the source. So it scales up with the volume in the Mixamp's case?
   
  While I'm at it, what level of volume do you generally set the Mixamp to if you're only using it as a DAC, DSP, and pre-amp, with a second amp connected to do the dirty work (as would be required of any electrostatic setup)?


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## Mad Lust Envy

I tried both maxing the volume and not maxing it and raising the volume on the attached amp, and got the same hiss. It's usually best to max or nearly max the volume on earlier parts of the audio chain as to not lose details.

Yes, it the hiss (when using the Mixamp alone) does scale with more volume. The hiss doesn't usually start until you get near max with my HE400, and it gets hissy at around %70 with the D7000 and other easy to drive headphones.

I'm currently playing Walking Dead on the PS3 with my HE400, and that game doesn't exactly have the loudest volume. My Mixamp is fully maxed out, and the HE400 is at moderate level... kinda wish I still had my E9, lol. The HE400 gets definitely loud enough with other games, but I can see that some games will have an issue getting loud enough for my taste, just like the DT990 Pros did.

I'm considering the E17 (want one for portable use), but I'm not sure how well it boosts volume when attached to another amp like the Mixamp. I know the E5 and E7 didn't add much of anything.


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## Evshrug

First off, I want to apologize if anyone thinks I'm posting too much or referring to reviews rather than personal experience. I don't want to bug anyone, I'm just curious about what I read and what you guys would think about it. The windows 7 thing... I'll go figure that out on my own



fegefeuer said:


> I don't know what it does on the PC (no need when you can get internal cards) but on the consoles it can't do more than DHP since it receives no positional information of single voices/streams, just the processed stuff.



Yes, the recon3D USB uses Dolby Headphone to process 5.1 to virtual surround for headphones, so it ought to be on the level with the Mixamp. AxelCloris' comments make me question the quality of the built-in amp; I bet that a synergistic amp in-line between Recon3D/Mixamp and headphone would level the playing field.



namelesspfg said:


> ...Wait a minute, did you say that the PS3 Killzone titles use _wavetracing_ in their audio engine? That's something I haven't heard of in gaming audio ever since Aureal got bankrupted by legal fees and ate up by Creative, just for A3D and its wavetracing to be dropped and buried in favor of Creative's own EAX.



What is wavetracing? I remember a friend describing ray tracing as a way to visually model something by the way light rays interact with it, would wave tracing be like audio occlusion around an object?



mad lust envy said:


> I'm considering the E17 (want one for portable use), but I'm not sure how well it boosts volume when attached to another amp like the Mixamp. I know the E5 and E7 didn't add much of anything.




ClieOS has done pretty comprehensive reviews on portable amps, broken up into sub $100 and sub$200 amps. You might want to look that up (they're in his signature) to see how the E17 stacks up. For portable use, an amp/DAC combo may be overkill.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I want a portable dac for future use.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HE400 gets definitely loud enough with other games, but I can see that some games will have an issue getting loud enough for my taste, just like the DT990 Pros did.
> I'm considering the E17 (want one for portable use), but I'm not sure how well it boosts volume when attached to another amp like the Mixamp. I know the E5 and E7 didn't add much of anything.


 
   
  I have used the E17 with the mixamp and it will boost the volume the gain stages help. So I would use 45 volume on 0 gain, 35V on 6G, 25 to 27V on 12G. The problem would be that I found anything past 1o'clock on the DT990pro/Mixamp to loud for my hearing and I would normally be 50%-60% on the mic side. So I am not sure if the E17 would be loud enough for your tastes. Or my hearing is stupidly delicate and I have driven a forklift for the past 15 years using my hearing protection with KSC75s stuffed inside.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you say it helps, that's more than enough. It's mostly for the last bit of oomph anyways. The E17 is something I mainly want ti help with my portables, as the HE400 is very quiet off the Vita and PSP. That and I have the DAc in case I ever need one.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Anyone here use sound cards?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Anyone here use sound cards?


 
  Guess I've bought about 9 sound cards in the past ten years, 4 Xonar, 4 Creative labs, 1 Turtle beach.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Guess I've bought about 9 sound cards in the past ten years, 4 Xonar, 4 Creative labs, 1 Turtle beach.


 
  Well of course you use sound cards.. lol TB makes a sound card though?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Well of course you use sound cards.. lol TB makes a sound card though?


 
  It was the Turtle Beach Systems Santa Cruz sound card, bought it about 10 years ago, think I bought it when I had Windows 98.
  Very stable card.


----------



## ruuku

Finally! I just read all 458! pages of this thread, got into the game late (like reeeealllly late) but didn't want to post without reading the ENTIRE thread (yeah I'm kind of anal about forums). First off HUGE thanks to MLE, You my friend, have the patience of a saint. There were  times when I would have given up on some of these wayward sheep, yet you never voiced your own superiority, were always level headed, and pretty humble when it came to things you didn't know. Mad props for that. (Warning: Wall of text to follow...hey in my defense I've been holding it in for 458 pages...excuse my verbal diarrhea) 
  
 I got sucked into this thread after my AX720s died a slow painful death. Current 720 owners take care with your headset plug (end with dual 3.5mm male) On the older 5.1s the strain relief (if you can call it that... its a hard piece of plastic which looks like a triangle literally molded to the cord) does not do its job, and after awhile, can cause the inside wires to lose strength/strain, until you lose the associated driver (mine was the left). Don't take this the wrong way though, although very, very, plasticky, the Trittons are built like a Tonka Truck, and I just abused the heck out of them.   
  
 Before Diablo 3 I was pretty much playing BF3 or MW3 pretty much every night, but since I built a computer especially for D3, I figure might as well put some time into that. 
  
 In the past 2 weeks while reading the thread I've picked up a pair of DT990 Pros, an AD800, wired Mixamp (getting tired of the line hiss with the AX720 decoder although, at times, "digital rain" was actually fairly interesting/amusing, and figured its worth a try). Will probably get a pair of Qs while I'm at it...(and some 880s and an amp/dac…yea you guys/gals feel me). All I can say is that everyone has been pretty spot on with the equipment, and I pretty much knew what I was getting (and what I was getting into) before my first listen. And boy what a glorious first listen that was…every time. Thanks to all who contributed!
  
 And now for a question…
 Right now I haven't received the Mixamp and have the decoder feeding an older Sony receiver (Model STR-D611)… this thing has the original ProLogic on board…seriously old. I've tried looking up the HP output specs to no avail… the best description I could find for it was "supports high and low impedance Headphones"…great. Now I realize that I could run the 990Pros off the 720 Decoder Box alone, which is fine for now, but I have a feeling that the D3 addiction/grind is going to wear off and I'll be back to either BF3 or MW3. I party up with a group of regulars that chat constantly. My concern is when voice is added to the mix, the 720 DB/Mixamp would start struggling with the added load… and/or the receiver my/may not be powerful enough to properly drive the Pros/Qs. My plan was to use the receiver until the ODA is released, and maybe buy a portable amp along the way. I do all of my HP listening while at home, thus drastically reducing my need for a portable amp. Is this a viable solution, or am I missing out on a better experience? Your inputs if you please?


----------



## ruuku

Oh, and if someone could point me to a guide on "how to use this forum" (i.e. editing profile, deleting lists, adding sigs... things of that nature) I would appreciate it as well. It doesn't have to necessarily be on this site, but whatever engine/application this particular forum uses.


----------



## AxelCloris

Baaaaah
   
  Welcome to Head-Fi!


----------



## ruuku

Thanks!
  Errr...Would you like some chocolate milk?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Thanks!
> Errr...Would you like some chocolate milk?


 
  That's racist! We want ebony milk....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku said:


> Finally! I just read all 458! pages of this thread, got into the game late (like reeeealllly late) but didn't want to post without reading the ENTIRE thread (yeah I'm kind of anal about forums). First off HUGE thanks to MLE, You my friend, have the patience of a saint. There were  times when I would have given up on some of these wayward sheep, yet you never voiced your own superiority, were always level headed, and pretty humble when it came to things you didn't know. Mad props for that. (Warning: Wall of text to follow...hey in my defense I've been holding it in for 458 pages...excuse my verbal diarrhea)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm afraid I'm very impatient, lol. I'd probably go crazy with the same questions asked every day, but thankfully, repeated questions don't come up too frequently. 

The questions that drive me crazy are private messages asking me what's goof for fun and for competitive. I'm like 'It's on the first post!" It's not like I'm hiding my preferences! I get asked this almost daily, sometimes twice or more.

I'd say you were the patient one by reading through all this nonsense, lol.

I'd say the reciever should have enough power for basic use. It won't be the best, but should suffice for now until the ODA comes out. Are you planning on using the AX720 box and running it to the reciver? (I assume from the AX720s headphone out, to the reciever's analog/RCA in). If so, I'm pretty sure the receiver should be fine for now. Theproblem with receivers is that they may have a headphone out that has a very high output impedance, and could make sound quality worse. But I'd say it's worth testing out first and see if it sounds fine.

I myself need an amp with an analog input, and I'm thinking I'll probably get the E17 since I could use a portable dac/amp in the future.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm afraid I'm very impatient, lol. I'd probably go crazy with the same questions asked every day, but thankfully, repeated questions don't come up too frequently.





   
  And every poster asking the same questions over and over is new to them, so it must be new to the discussion, and therefore worth posting right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I swear that this thread could have been about 1/4 shorter if not for the repeated questions.... but at least it served a purpose. I know my purchases were pretty much set in stone, as to what i was looking for, ironically through the eyes (ears?) of others. Hmm... I seem to REALLY like using commas. 



> I'd say the reciever should have enough power for basic use. It won't be the best, but should suffice for now until the ODA comes out. Are you planning on using the AX720 box and running it to the reciver? (I assume from the AX720s headphone out, to the reciever's analog/RCA in). If so, I'm pretty sure the receiver should be fine for now. Theproblem with receivers is that they may have a headphone out that has a very high output impedance, and could make sound quality worse. But I'd say it's worth testing out first and see if it sounds fine.





   
  Thanks for the confirmation MLE.
  Yup thats how I have things set up so far. The possible combinations I've tried have resulted in only slight changes in terms of SQ/noise, i.e.
  PC--->990
  PC/Xbox360-->Reciever--->990
  PC/Xbox360-->720 decoder--->Reciever--->990
  PC/Xbox360-->720 decoder--->990 
   
  I think the next real big improvements will come from an amp, and possibly switiching from the 720 DB to the Mixamp (though not really counting on this one).  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I myself need an amp with an analog input, and I'm thinking I'll probably get the E17 since I could use a portable dac/amp in the future.






  Oohhhh... new toys! At first I was also thinking of just getting an E17 + E9K combo... but then i figured for the price I might as well just invest in a standalone desktop amp/dac. Kind of wavering now that i got the phones in.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> It was the Turtle Beach Systems Santa Cruz sound card, bought it about 10 years ago, think I bought it when I had Windows 98.
> Very stable card.


 
   
  Now that's a sound card I haven't heard of in a while! IIRC, it used a lot of Sensaura technologies like Virtual Ear (binaural HRTF mixing), and was generally regarded as a good card at the time. Heck, it was THE product I knew Turtle Beach for, as I saw it in practically every computer store's inventory back then. Never owned one myself, though.
   
  The other notable Turtle Beach sound cards I know of are from the Montego line (except the Montego DDL), since they're based on Aureal Vortex chipsets. I actually have a Montego II lying around that I got from a computer shop dirt cheap, but I haven't gotten around to building a proper Win9x gaming computer to put it in so I can put A3D to the test.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> If you say it helps, that's more than enough. It's mostly for the last bit of oomph anyways. The E17 is something I mainly want ti help with my portables, as the HE400 is very quiet off the Vita and PSP. That and I have the DAc in case I ever need one.




Hey, do what you do 
On a completely unrelated note, I saw a guy driving around at midnight a few nights ago, with his headlights off and his Bose Triports on. Durrr? That's a guy who shouldn't do what he does IMO.



ruuku said:


> Oh, and if someone could point me to a guide on "how to use this forum" (i.e. editing profile, deleting lists, adding sigs... things of that nature) I would appreciate it as well. It doesn't have to necessarily be on this site, but whatever engine/application this particular forum uses.




First off, Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet!

Mad props to reading the entire thread, how long did that take? I only got to the hundredth page before posting, I believe. You also probably read my posts, so you'd know I'm not deeply $ invested yet, but I've enjoyed the research. And we all do like spending money on out audio, even if we don't always make the most logical choices  Still not sure if I'm keeping or selling my accidental V-MODAs.

As for how to use this forum? Um, I think there is a sticky post about that, but here's some general tips: 



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Edits: click or tap the pencil icon in the lower-left corner of your post.
Multi-quote: lower right hand buttons on a post for reply methods, I never got the multi-quote button to work on my iPad, so I write a reply to each quoted message, then copy-paste the whole thing with code into a previous post by invoking an edit. That's my effort to reduce my tendency to spam -_-
Subscriptions: there's a button to subscribe to a thread without posting, but if you do post it's added automatically. You can check your Subscriptions for updates by clicking the labeled link at the top-right of any forum page next to the search bar. The subscriptions page remembers which tab you were last looking at, so I leave it on Threads.
Signatures: next to the subscriptions link is a link with your username. Click that and scroll down down until you see the field to enter something about you. Most people list their gear for bragging rights but also so others know where you're coming from, and I put my music prefs there too. Contributers such as Mad Lust Envy, NamelessPFG, and ClieOS have their guides linked in their sigs to save people time in finding their guides and reviews.



Hope that helps!

PS: for NamelessPFG and everybody else I've bugged, I've discovered that Windows 7 Pro should be my go-to choice because the 32-bit Win XP emulation is more comprehensive than the Home version's backwards compatability. I may have to hold off on it till I'm ready to install my "final" CPU for this computer build since the cheaper OEM version ties itself to the MoBo & CPU after 3 days.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm guessing he's trying to kill himself. @_@


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey, do what you do
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the warm welcome, and yea the wallet thing... but i figure I'd just blow the money on food, gas, insurance.... you know the unimportant stuff anyway so....  Oh, since your talking about OSs... not too sure if you knew but the preorder upgrade to Win8 comes with Win8 Professional so if you only have home on 7 it would actually be cheaper to upgrade in October. Then again you _might_ have to deal with a buggy os for a little while. 
    
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I'm guessing he's trying to kill himself. @_@


 
  WHHAAATTT??? Then who's gonna answer all of the random PC questions that pop up? I've been on OSX for the past 8 years! 
   
   
  Ok, so I ordered AD900s from a major online retailer...215.00 plus 15.00 S&H... but they wont ship till a week later. I was bummed but whatever. A few days later I get a notice saying there was a problem with my order. It gets canceled, takes a couple of days to refund my card and they throw me a $5 credit. Over and done with right? Nope. About a week later a box shows up from Fex-Ex...what the hey? I don't remember ordering anything... Guess whats in the box...yup AD900s, however instead of shiny and new they were new-ish.... Not that I've ever handled a NIB pair but I'm pretty sure AT or any other mid to high level manufacturer would wrap the audio cable around the hinged area of the plastic carrier. wow. just wow. Had I actually paid for these I would have been pretty pissed... especially since NewEgg has them for 200.00.
  Long story a little less long... good riddance AD900 and the terrible wing design. The Q701s should handily replace the AD900s if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hope so. Let yourself adjust to the bumps.... as that can be an issue. Wasn't for me after a few dats, but you never know.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Well guys... sad to say but I think I'm done buying audio equipment besides a SC for now. My real passion is making this monster gaming rig the nastiest beast I've built yet. Except every time I buy something or do something, mod something or change something... IT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH!!! GRRR!!! This is my second case this year and now I want to upgrade to a TJ11... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I wish I would make up my mind before I buy something. I also want to change my res out and all my WC tubing to clear. My buddy Mick (AKA Mayhem) is making me a special dye I call Toxic Waste!! !!! It looks like the Ninja turtle ooze. ^^ Glows under UV too. 
   
   
  But I will still trol (patrol*) these threads lurking about reading all the juicy information your audio geeks spit out. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
       Much love - The Sush.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And that is why I don't mess with Pc gaming. Things become outdated in a few months after release. I'll stick to consoles which upgrade every half a decade or so...

In other news, forum member ruuku helped me out by typing most of the Dolby headphone decoder boxes as well as some final notes, which I have updated on the first post. Thanks again, ruuku!

This is something I should've done ages ago. I'll be updating these entries in the future, perhaps with some scores or personal comments on the Mixamp, 5.8, and AX720.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And that is why I don't mess with Pc gaming. Things become outdated in a few months after release. I'll stick to consoles which upgrade every half a decade or so...
> In other news, forum member ruuku helped me out by typing most of the Dolby headphone decoder boxes as well as some final notes, which I have updated on the first post. Thanks again, ruuku!
> This is something I should've done ages ago. I'll be updating these entries in the future, perhaps with some scores or personal comments on the Mixamp, 5.8, and AX720.


 
  Cool. What are decoder boxes? lol Audio newb here.
   
  About the PC. It's not so much as out dated. A 460Ti or 6850 still can push better graphics than an xbox or PS3 any day of the week. For me it's more of a, it cost a crap load of money to make a nice rig. I'm also trying to start my own PC building business here in the burgh and want to show off all I can do. (WHICH IS PRICEY!! JEEZ!!!) The American dream ain't cheap y'all! lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh i know even multiple year old PCs do better graphics than consoles. However, you don't have a desire or need to upgrade when playing on Consoles, because everyone is playing on the same system/s. We upgrade when a new system is out. I know I'd be mad if I bought a high end PC, then the next week, the next best thing is out. Screw that headache.

Decoder boxes = Mixamp, AX720, etc. Basically gaming oriented amps that have Dolby headphone or other virtual surround processing for headphones. The rough equivalent of specialized soundcard for PCs, like the Essence STX, Titanium HD, etc. Obviously nowhere near as good, but it's all console gamers have... unless you wanna count somethig like the Beyer Headzone... lol.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> ...Except every time I buy something or do something, mod something or change something... IT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH!!! GRRR!!!





  This is how I felt when I over-built a PC  just to run diablo.  I have/had no need in buying/using a 860 watt Power supply, and many other components that I ended up buying. Its kind of funny when I think about it because the only reason I was doing this in the first place was because a friend was upgrading his rig. Free three-year-old MB, Ram, and processor was too good to pass up. But now guess what...I want to upgrade said parts. Which is part of the reason I'm here. From one money sink to another
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  
   

  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And that is why I don't mess with Pc gaming. Things become outdated in a few months after release. I'll stick to consoles which upgrade every half a decade or so...
> In other news, forum member ruuku helped me out by typing most of the Dolby headphone decoder boxes as well as some final notes, which I have updated on the first post. Thanks again, ruuku!
> This is something I should've done ages ago. I'll be updating these entries in the future, perhaps with some scores or personal comments on the Mixamp, 5.8, and AX720.


 
  Happy to help... hopefully most of it was accurate, I'm not exactly certified...
   
  Speaking of which aren't we due out for new consoles pretty soon? Speculations time frame wise? Honestly, I can't see myself buying another Sony system for a while.... unless they make another Metal Gear. Not featuring Raiden. Which reminds me why I bought a PS3 in the first place. Never-mind.... totally worth it. 
   
  Ooohhhh... MLE avatar change....Yozora?


----------



## Eric_C

ninjasushi2 said:


> Cool. What are decoder boxes? lol Audio newb here.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news, forum member ruuku helped me out by typing most of the Dolby headphone decoder boxes as well as some final notes, which I have updated *on the first post*. Thanks again, ruuku!


 
   
  Read the first post, NinjaSushi.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh i know even multiple year old PCs do better graphics than consoles. However, you don't have a desire or need to upgrade when playing on Consoles, because everyone is playing on the same system/s. We upgrade when a new system is out. I know I'd be mad if I bought a high end PC, then the next week, the next best thing is out. Screw that headache.
> Decoder boxes = Mixamp, AX720, etc. Basically gaming oriented amps that have Dolby headphone or other virtual surround processing for headphones. The rough equivalent of specialized soundcard for PCs, like the Essence STX, Titanium HD, etc. Obviously nowhere near as good, but it's all console gamers have... unless you wanna count somethig like the Beyer Headzone... lol.


 
   
  I too console game. I have or had so many console in my life. Currently have my PS2, PS3, and XBOX 360. Oh and a PSP but that's not console. PCs are more of a really expensive hobby.
   
  Quote: 





ruuku said:


> This is how I felt when I over-built a PC  just to run diablo.  I have/had no need in buying/using a 860 watt Power supply, and many other components that I ended up buying. Its kind of funny when I think about it because the only reason I was doing this in the first place was because a friend was upgrading his rig. Free three-year-old MB, Ram, and processor was too good to pass up. But now guess what...I want to upgrade said parts. Which is part of the reason I'm here. From one money sink to another
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah PS3 was a total let down. A glorified blu-ray player IMO. 256MB ram and 256MB VRAM? ARE YOU SERIOUS!? My one 7970 has 3GB of VRAM and I had 8GB of ram in my PC until my main board either blew a mosfet, bent a pin, or the DRAM 3 port is bad. *Warranty!!!*
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


>


 
  I am aware.
   
  Edit: That's odd... it quoted incorrectly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku, I do believe it's Yozora, though I nabbed it randomly. She had one of the best ending themes, EVAR. DAT AIR GUITAR

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG6iiiU4xQo[/VIDEO]



ninjasushi2 said:


> I too console game. I have or had so many console in my life. Currently have my PS2, PS3, and XBOX 360. Oh and a PSP but that's not console. PCs are more of a really expensive hobby.
> 
> 
> Yeah PS3 was a total let down. A glorified blu-ray player IMO. 256MB ram and 256MB VRAM? ARE YOU SERIOUS!? My one 7970 has 3GB of VRAM and I had 8GB of ram in my PC until my main board either blew a mosfet, bent a pin, or the DRAM 3 port is bad. *Warranty!!!*
> ...




Shut yo mouth! 

 I love the PS3. Play some Uncharted 3 and tell me those graphics aren't anything but amazing.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

> *AntLion ModMic*
> I have not personally heard this microphone, but everyone I know who owns it is extremely pleased with how sensitive it is, and how versatile it is with attaching it to your headphones. This one is a high quality, flexible microphone that will make headsets pretty much obsolete. Please note that at the time of this update, the Modmic is SOLD OUT. However, *The new version is due out possibly in August which is supposedly an improved version of the existing ModMic.*


 
  I have the personal pleasure of saying I was able to test these mics first hand. The reason for the new mic was I found that moister had a very easy time of making its way into the components of the pick up on the mic. I noticed just by spit talking, drinking something with condensation, or even having wet hands while handling the mic damaged it. As far as I know ModMic v. 2.0 will have a better screen/filter for moister so that common mishaps will not damage the mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now waiting for it's release so I can edit that part out. XD


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> shut yo mouth!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ram and VRAM have nothing to do with graphics or processing power. For instance the reason Skyrim sucked donkey everything when it came out is because the game had to cache to the HDD. The mere 256MB ram filled up so fast it was rending graphics and storing data on a platter disk HD (Mind you not a fast 15000 RPM V-Raptor or even an SSD) This is why most hardcore gamers switched out their 2.5" drives for some uber fast read/write SSD.
   
  The graphics on the PS3 are very nice but when it comes to rendering a demanding game the architecture is outdated, under-par, and poorly designed. I shutter to think of the ram speeds on the PS3. *Shutters* It uses DDR3 while PC GPUs all run DDR5 (GDDR if you will) The new PS3 are supposed to run "cleaner" by having reduced power consumption and reduced over all nm of all core components.
   
  The die of the cpu and gpu both dramatically dropped over the last 5 years, (cut in half), and the PSU was also reduced almost by half. 90nm to 45nm and 380W to 190W. Now does this effect performance?... Eh.. Physically speaking, less power = less performance. But according to Moore's law, technology trumps physics.
   
  Mind you as far as I know the audio hasn't changed a bit! lol 5.1
   
  "*Sound:* Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)"
   
Edit: The PS3 and XBOX also have ghosting and/or screen input lag. When using the PS3 or XBOX360 ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS!! Run your input as PC or "Gamer acceleration mode". The lack of VRAM on the consoles makes playing at 1080p very hard for some TVs, I.E. 32"+ depending on make/model and features. So my advice is if you console game and love that Full HD then apply any gaming features and always set input to PC. 
   
Oddly enough it's been found MW2 runs better and cleaner at 720p rather than 1080p. By cleaner I mean it looks better despite the reduced graphics display.


----------



## ruuku

Hmmm...  Mics i have no problem buying... they're usually under ~$40 (for the xbox...not professional ones...just seeing the cost of PRO-sumer audio... the big boys are waaayyy outta my league). You linked the DX mike...bought that...actually 3... someone had problems with theirs don't want to wait another month for a $2 mike. If all three work then I'll pass the other two on to board members @ cost + shipping.  Someone linked the Labtec...bought that (they're like the Karma Chameleon they come and go).
   
  Now I'm trying to decide if I want the mute switch for the ModMic. I guess it depends on the finalization of the product. The one thing that really bothered me with the mixamp was the fact that the Headset cable was too short or too long. With the headset on, It would come down to my waist. The cheap clip that was attached to the cable broke after a year or two and after that I used an AT cable-holder-clip-thingy to hold it in place, which was convenient but ended up straining the cable... which ultimately caused mine to fail. Problem is, I haven't the slightest idea where the best place for the mute switch to be. By the strain relief? God forbid it hangs by my waist again...


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Hmmm...  Mics i have no problem buying... they're usually under ~$40 (for the xbox...not professional ones...just seeing the cost of PRO-sumer audio... the big boys are waaayyy outta my league). You linked the DX mike...bought that...actually 3... someone had problems with theirs don't want to wait another month for a $2 mike. If all three work then I'll pass the other two on to board members @ cost + shipping.  Someone linked the Labtec...bought that (they're like the Karma Chameleon they come and go).
> 
> Now I'm trying to decide if I want the mute switch for the ModMic. I guess it depends on the finalization of the product. The one thing that really bothered me with the mixamp was the fact that the Headset cable was too short or too long. With the headset on, It would come down to my waist. The cheap clip that was attached to the cable broke after a year or two and after that I used an AT cable-holder-clip-thingy to hold it in place, which was convenient but ended up straining the cable... which ultimately caused mine to fail. Problem is, I haven't the slightest idea where the best place for the mute switch to be. By the strain relief? God forbid it hangs by my waist again...


 
  ...? I find my mod mics weren't that sensitive. I would just flip it up and bam! No sound. Though it is hot here and when I had my fans blowing on my they (other peeps) asked if I was in a wind tunnel. So the pick up is very nice when it needs to be.


----------



## ruuku

My allergies... when I sneeze its like this: (might want to turn down volume...)


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> My allergies... when I sneeze its like this: (might want to turn down volume...)


 
  I see you and raise you.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And that is why I don't mess with Pc gaming. Things become outdated in a few months after release. I'll stick to consoles which upgrade every half a decade or so...


 
   
  I'm still using a system verging on five years old (for motherboard, CPU, and GPU) as my primary PC gaming system. Admittedly, that's due to games these days being developed around consoles first more than anything, because it would've needed to be replaced after two years or even one year had PC games and hardware advanced at the rate they did in the 1990s and early 2000s. (Still, I do admit that I'm feeling the itch for a GTX 670 right about now to smooth out the really demanding games, but I keep putting it off because of this very forum tempting me to buy more Stax. I need my electrostatic fix!)
   
  Also, I thought your primary reason for not getting into PC gaming, going by earlier posts in this very thread, was that you prefer gamepads for the kick-back-and-relax factor, even if KB+M wins hands down for FPSs and whatnot. (Never mind that a lot of recent multiplatform releases have X360 gamepad settings by default, a lot of PC games overall are still clearly meant for KB+M.)
   
  Anyway, I'm starting to wish that cross-platform gaming was an actual thing right now, more than something that was experimented with and dropped in the past (case in point: Shadowrun X360). Co-op games like Borderlands would work well that way, since players are less concerned about having a competitive edge and more about having a good time regardless of what platform they prefer to play on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, gamepads are definitely one of the biggest reasons, but it's not the only reason.

My PC is capable of handling good games too, but I'd still buy them off my consoles. Hell, I don't listen to music too much because I don't like sitting on the Pc area too much. I'd move my NFB5 to the room, but all my music is on the PC.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'm still using a system verging on five years old (for motherboard, CPU, and GPU) as my primary PC gaming system. Admittedly, that's due to games these days being developed around consoles first more than anything, because it would've needed to be replaced after two years or even one year had PC games and hardware advanced at the rate they did in the 1990s and early 2000s. (Still, I do admit that I'm feeling the itch for a GTX 670 right about now to smooth out the really demanding games, but I keep putting it off because of this very forum tempting me to buy more Stax. I need my electrostatic fix!)
> 
> Also, I thought your primary reason for not getting into PC gaming, going by earlier posts in this very thread, was that you prefer gamepads for the kick-back-and-relax factor, even if KB+M wins hands down for FPSs and whatnot. (Never mind that a lot of recent multiplatform releases have X360 gamepad settings by default, a lot of PC games overall are still clearly meant for KB+M.)
> 
> Anyway, I'm starting to wish that cross-platform gaming was an actual thing right now, more than something that was experimented with and dropped in the past (case in point: Shadowrun X360). Co-op games like Borderlands would work well that way, since players are less concerned about having a competitive edge and more about having a good time regardless of what platform they prefer to play on.


 
  Tru-dat. Borderlands would be a great game to play cross-platform. Also buy a 7970. They can OC higher than a 670 and cost a CRAP load less. I take it you don't WC so I recommend one of these regardless. *http://tinyurl.com/8nums7j*
  I have a XFX 7970 BE and now it's underwater. I plan to buy a few more too.
   
  I'd say if your on a budget then the EVGA 2GB 670. If you play with multi monitors (3+) EVGA 4GB 670. But if you play multi monitors at high resolutions 4k+, then the XFX BE 3GB 7970 is the way to go. I included the GHz edition just to show how far $10 more gets you. A whole lot more!
   
  Now my only concern is whether I should spend the 10 bucks for the GHz edition or just buy normal Black Edition cards. I feel I would be tempted to OC the GHz Ed. more than the regular which would offset the crossfire.
   
  Na... instead I think I'll spend all my money on Dre BEATs and Skull Candy phones.


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> [ Mad makes a comment about "Guess he wants to kill himself? @_@"]
> 
> WHHAAATTT??? Then who's gonna answer all of the random PC questions that pop up? I've been on OSX for the past 8 years!




Pretty sure he meant the headphone driver I encountered. Said driver also forgot to use turning signals when he changed lanes from in front of me too, now that I think about it... so at the red light I was next to him and able to get his attention & have him turn on the headlights.

I can answer OS X questions! But, probably, so can you. Not too much to deal with on a daily basis. Oh, and you mentioned I might want to wait for Windows 8: I actually have more experience with Win8 than 7 because I've been using the Consumer Preview since it was released, because I couldn't afford a retail copy at the time I had assembled my custom PC. Went with the free but legal route. The thing about Win8 is the rumors about SecureBoot and usage restriction headaches makes me just want to stick with Win7, even though I can get around Metro pretty easily and find it a unique and attractive alternative to the current list view.



ruuku said:


> Ok, so I ordered AD900s from a major online retailer...215.00 plus 15.00 S&H... [snip] Had I actually paid for these I would have been pretty pissed... especially since NewEgg has them for 200.00.
> Long story a little less long... good riddance AD900 and the terrible wing design. The Q701s should handily replace the AD900s if I'm not mistaken.




Wow that's pretty crazy. Nice of the company to refund you, did you send the headphones back? Similar story, I had to wait a month when I ordered my AD700 from a 3rd party Amazon reseller before I actually got to experience them, because they sent me a pair of closed A700 headphones TWICE... the same pair! The seller wasn't as good at customer service as yours, but you'd think they wouldn't want to lose money like that.


----------



## Evshrug

ninjasushi2 said:


> Tru-dat. Borderlands would be a great game to play cross-platform.



Double tru!




ninjasushi2 said:


> Na... instead I think I'll spend all my money on Dre BEATs and Skull Candy phones.



Sushi, u crazy. *goes back to playing with his iPad 2*


----------



## ruuku

evshrug said:


> Pretty sure he meant the headphone driver I encountered. Said driver also forgot to use turning signals when he changed lanes from in front of me too, now that I think about it... so at the red light I was next to him and able to get his attention & have him turn on the headlights.


 
  Ohhh.. I thought Nameless abandoned ship. 
   
   


> I can answer OS X questions! But, probably, so can you. Not too much to deal with on a daily basis. Oh, and you mentioned I might want to wait for Windows 8: I actually have more experience with Win8 than 7 because I've been using the Consumer Preview since it was released, because I couldn't afford a retail copy at the time I had assembled my custom PC. Went with the free but legal route. The thing about Win8 is the rumors about SecureBoot and usage restriction headaches makes me just want to stick with Win7, even though I can get around Metro pretty easily and find it a unique and attractive alternative to the current list view.


 
  I dunno about that... still haven't gotten accustomed to the Win7OS and I keep switching between comps so....yea. A free upgrade to Professional is very enticing, plus the offer is valid till March of 2013 *hopefully* most of the bug/driver issues/general "burn in
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




" will take place with the first few months. Maybe, if the surface really takes off, I'd truly convert to a total Win8 environment... but it has to be reeealllly good in order to convince me not to wait for a Haswell refreshed MBP (whenever that is). 
   
  Quote:


> Wow that's pretty crazy. Nice of the company to refund you, did you send the headphones back? Similar story, I had to wait a month when I ordered my AD700 from a 3rd party Amazon reseller before I actually got to experience them, because they sent me a pair of closed A700 headphones TWICE... the same pair! The seller wasn't as good at customer service as yours, but you'd think they wouldn't want to lose money like that.


 
  The problem, I believe, is that the retailer (Overstock.com) relies on drop shipping, just like your experience with Amazon's external sales. No, I didn't keep the 900s... was tempted though. In this case I contacted Overstock and let them know about the error. If this were the pre-digital days then I probably could have gotten away with a free pair of HPs... but I figured it was only a matter of time before I got charged the full amount for a floor model/return. That and I do believe that Karma is a...well you know. I gotta give their sales recovery people credit though... I mentioned the condition of the packaging etc. in my email to them, and when taking care of the return, he offered me a $50 discount on the AD900s if I wanted to keep them. Granted it would have eliminated the return shipping cost to them, and it was open-box condition, but that's still a pretty good discount. Mine was a breeze compared to yours though geez... I would have given up altogether and ordered it from another company. Its a curse of open back Audio Technica's! Everyone buy local! LOL.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Anyway, I'm starting to wish that cross-platform gaming was an actual thing right now, more than something that was experimented with and dropped in the past (case in point: Shadowrun X360). Co-op games like Borderlands would work well that way, since players are less concerned about having a competitive edge and more about having a good time regardless of what platform they prefer to play on.


 
  Although there are work arounds for using KB+M on consoles, many are very expensive (relative to the entrance fee of console gaming), and most players still use a controller. Like MLE, from the start I've gamed on on consoles. Its just more comfortable for me to use a controller vs KB+M
   
  Yessir, MANY MANY complaints would be filed if console & PC servers were to be mixed in a PvP atmosphere... however a PvE/PvC I can see. I think some of it also comes down to consoles having a very set hardware sheet, where in even in revisions when the hardware ceiling was raised, specs still remained the same i.e. going to smaller dies, where as PC rigs can run the gamut of cutting edge to barely playable.
   
  Another problem (in trying to switch platforms) lies in the gaming communities itself. Ive been on Xbox Live so long that I've built up a pretty sizable friends list. Going over to PC would require to "re-acquaint" my self in a new community, something that I definitely would not be comfortable with. Unless you can combine the social aspect of the platforms (which I'll admit is _kind of_ integrated in XBL windows messenger ect. ) the two will remain separate.


----------



## C3pro

Whoa! I didn't even know there was a video game discussion here. Thanks for visiting my thread with all this information.
   
  Two questions: 1. Do you playon Toslink?  2. Is that review of the He-400 coming soon?


----------



## Hailin

I am not to sure about the PC to console spending rates. I have spent 500 total on my pc in five years. In the same 5 to 6 year time frame. I have gone through 2 ps3's (First one was release 700 bucks same price as my PC originally) and 4 xboxs all red rings. My slim now is still alive after 2 years thankfully. So if you add that up plus a TV upgrade (which to me in picture quality was a side grade.) I am WAY above the price of my pc all in. All because Mircrosoft originally had the build quality of a two year olds drawing skills.


----------



## draliko

First thing apologize for poor english, i'm from italy
  I'd wish to ask for some help, i'm currently searching for a solution to my problem: volume at late night  I usually watch movies or play games 'till late and my wife doesn't like the chaos i make, but you know playing with low volume is just unacceptable  I currently own a xbox360, an htpc (both connected to a yamaha ampli via hdmi) and a gaming pc. Both the pc use internal mobo audio (but the htpc streams dts or ac3 mkv to the ampli so i think no big deal), and with the gaming pc i use a cheap behringer hpx2000, i'd now wish to find a good compromise to get 5.1 with headphones (virtualised DH, not true 5.1 headsets). I saw that with a tritton ax720 i should be fine, i can connect it to xbox and pc via usb, but i'm bit worried about the headset quality and the fact that everyone seems to report background noise (to various degrees), otherwise i can go for a xonar + cal (found them a 50€ in offer) for the gaming rig but this won't resolve the x360 and htpc problem... i saw the astro a40 too but seems like that only the mixamp is worth the price, not the headset. 
  So i should go for the ax720? Are they really worth 140€ (price in italy), am i missing some other solutions??
  Again sorry for my grammar and thanks for reading 'till here


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> Ohhh.. I thought Nameless abandoned ship.



Is it weird that I read those last two words with the StarCraft Battleship sound clip in my mind?




ruuku said:


> I dunno about that... still haven't gotten accustomed to the Win7OS and I keep switching between comps so....yea. A free upgrade to Professional is very enticing, plus the offer is valid till March of 2013 *hopefully* most of the bug/driver issues/general "burn in " will take place with the first few months. Maybe, if the Surface really takes off, I'd truly convert to a total Win8 environment... but it has to be reeealllly good in order to convince me not to wait for a Haswell refreshed MBP (whenever that is).



I'd assume that would be in the next MBP refresh, the pattern would indicate a release early next year. And I was saying we both could offer OS X tips, because in my elitist view I feel people rarely can't do just about anything after the first month. I'm also not used to Windows 7... The task bar peek confuses me and it seems I lose instances when many browser windows are open. Control panel settings require a lot of digging. I hadn't heard about the offer you mention, but I'm still leery about the rumored restrictions. I may not care if I use it purely as a gaming box, LOL!




ruuku said:


> The problem, I believe, is that the retailer (Overstock.com) relies on drop shipping, just like your experience with Amazon's external sales. No, I didn't keep the 900s... was tempted though. *[snip]* Mine was a breeze compared to yours though geez... I would have given up altogether and ordered it from another company.



Good for you! Electronics Expo sent the closed A700s to a whole bunch of people ordering the open AD700, and they also offered that I could keep it. "It costs a little more anyway, many people prefer the sound of the closed model!" Uh, no. I was very tempted to buy somewhere else when I realized they had just turned around the package I had just sent and returned it to me. Interesting what a detailed, unfavorable seller review will do.


----------



## Evshrug

draliko said:


> First thing apologize for poor english, i'm from italy
> I'd wish to ask for some help, i'm currently searching for a solution to my problem: volume at late night  I usually watch movies or play games 'till late and my wife doesn't like the chaos i make, but you know playing with low volume is just unacceptable  I currently own a xbox360, an htpc (both connected to a yamaha ampli via hdmi) and a gaming pc. Both the pc use internal mobo audio (but the htpc streams dts or ac3 mkv to the ampli so i think no big deal), and with the gaming pc i use a cheap behringer hpx2000, i'd now wish to find a good compromise to get 5.1 with headphones (virtualised DH, not true 5.1 headsets). I saw that with a tritton ax720 i should be fine, i can connect it to xbox and pc via usb, but i'm bit worried about the headset quality and the fact that everyone seems to report background noise (to various degrees), otherwise i can go for a xonar + cal (found them a 50€ in offer) for the gaming rig but this won't resolve the x360 and htpc problem... i saw the astro a40 too but seems like that only the mixamp is worth the price, not the headset.
> So i should go for the ax720? Are they really worth 140€ (price in italy), am i missing some other solutions??
> Again sorry for my grammar and thanks for reading 'till here



Hello from America! Your English is much better than my Italian 
First, you say all your devices are connected to a Yamaha Ampli. Which model is it? You might want to find out if your integrated amp/receiver has Yamaha's Silent Cinema feature, as this is a pretty decent virtual surround for headphones. On my Yamaha RX-V367, which was a low-price beginner model from 3 years ago, I have Silent Cinema as long as I turn on a DSP mode like Action Game and plug in my headphones. This may be the simplest connection for you at night, and you already paid for it. It would work for both of the computers and Xbox connected by HDMI. I enjoyed the effect the 1 time I got to use it, and I look forward to setting up my Yamaha receiver perminantly.

If your gaming PC is not connected to the Yamaha, your best option is an internal Gaming sound card from Creative (Sound Blaster X-Fi) or Asus (Xonar), as they create virtual 3D sound (that potentially works better than Dolby Headphone because it is not limited to Dolby 5.1 or 7.1 directions) and unlock special environment effects sounds for extra realism. NamelessPFG has a pc gaming guide here on head-Fi you should check out.

If you want to upgrade your headphones from the Behringers, the CAL! (Creative Aurvana Live!) is recommended instead of the Astro A40 or Mad Catz Tritton ax720 for the price.

I hope you understood my post (I try to write clearly), and that this helps you. Also, welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Tru-dat. Borderlands would be a great game to play cross-platform. Also buy a 7970. They can OC higher than a 670 and cost a CRAP load less. I take it you don't WC so I recommend one of these regardless. *http://tinyurl.com/8nums7j*
> I have a XFX 7970 BE and now it's underwater. I plan to buy a few more too.
> 
> I'd say if your on a budget then the EVGA 2GB 670. If you play with multi monitors (3+) EVGA 4GB 670. But if you play multi monitors at high resolutions 4k+, then the XFX BE 3GB 7970 is the way to go. I included the GHz edition just to show how far $10 more gets you. A whole lot more!
> ...


 
   
  Well, the thing that concerns me about ATI/AMD cards these days happens to be the drivers.
   
  Things weren't so bad when I was using a Radeon 9600 XT under Windows XP, but when I tried a notebook with a Mobility Radeon X2300 (which is actually a DX9.0c part, so it got shunted onto the "legacy" driver structure), the experience was pretty bad.
   
  I also tested out an HD 4850 in my desktop before shipping it to a friend. It performed WORSE than my 8800 GT, contrary to most of the statements I've read. Maybe it improved after Catalyst 8.10 or 8.11, can't remember which of those two I used.
   
  The one advantage I see with going ATI these days, if I really wanted to get into it, is bitcoin mining. Well, that and Eyefinity, but I'm only using a single monitor right now and don't see that changing for a while.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Hi guys! I posted a couple weeks ago asking for help regarding a few headphones I was trying to decide between! Namely the PC360, the Q701s and the DT990s pros/premiums. WELL I'd just like to leave some feedback as a newbie to the audiophile world!
   
  First and foremost, I opted for the *DT990 Pros (250 Ohm)* as I got a fairly good deal paying about 110€ for practically new headphones. They've been used less than 50 hours according to the original owner and, from the looks of things, seems quite believable. Only one SLIGHT mark on the edge of the metal clamp. I presume it came against some metal or was dropped once D:
   
  WELL! Just to be super redundant ^_^ Used for gaming at home! Have got an astro mixamp to hook up to my laptop (gaming qosmio x500) and my ps3. Will also be using the headphones underway from my phone (currently HTC Desire) These sound spectactular coming from everything I've tried thus far, especially connected with the Mixamp. Connecting these to my phone I got a pretty decent level of loudness. However I felt like I could sense some distortion, however slight when at max volume. (It needs to be at max volume on my phone to be at a comfortable level of loudness where I can enjoy the music)

 So basically, *I need an amplifier* and I'd like to buy one within the next couple months. I'm thinking between *50-175€ *for an amplifier. It would be sexy if it was *portable *and I could lug it around with either my phone in my jeans pocket or stuff it in my backpack next to my phone and have it connected to my phones from there. I have a pair of Bose in-ears that are quite sensational imho that could benefit from some amping I bet (despite bose being looked down upon in these forums (the bass is redic. on these)).
   
  I'd like for there to be a *substantial increase in sound quality and as little distortion as possible*. Apparently *EQs *bring down the quality of amplifiers (true/false?) so I DON'T KNOW? But frankly it would be nice to have an equalizer to tone down the DT990 treble a slight bit. Though if I'm sacrificing massive amounts of sound quality I'll learn to live without it. I'll adapt to the V shape sound spectrum my DT990s offer!
   
  I'd be ordering from Germany btw.
   
  Amplifiers that have come up are: Fiio E17 or the other Fiios, JDS Labs cmoy, O2, or _C421 _ off the top of my head. Here are two links containing many other portable amps.
   
http://www.headfonia.com/music-on-a-budget-sub-100-portable-amps-shootout/
   
http://www.headfonia.com/the-usual-suspects-12-portable-amps-compared/
   
  Should I look into tube amplifiers at all? My music is pretty widespread genre-wise, I listen to a lot of Kpop, Jrock, Metal, occasionally Punk, RnB lots, Rap/HipHop, the occasional classical song. Really just a bit of anything including SOME techno/trance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only one I know of that can reduce treble is the E17. You can pair it up with the E9/E09K for more power if you want.

In any case, substantial boost in quality is stretching it. Amps won't transform a headphone. It will improve it, but may not be substantial.

I'm not a fan of tubes personally, but if any headphone could use tubes, it'd be the DT990.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

I've read lots of mixed reviews about Fiio amplifiers despite actually being attracted to what's being offered. The E17 looks quite nifty and nice. I remember you recommended I check out JDS Labs and what they've got to offer which I have, but, *what would you recommend out of the E17/cmoy/02/C421? *
   
  Substantial was stretching it, haha, my bad, I guess *I just meant I didn't want any hissing/distortion/background noise if possible. *That alone would be substantial for me 
   
  Unfortunately *I have NO IDEA where to look for tube amps *or which. Most of what I read/learned was about Solid State amplification. *Tips/links?*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

None of the Fiio stuff I've owned had any background noise. They're dead silent AFAIK. 

As for tube amps, I dunno what's out there in your price range.

The O2 is amp only and won't reduce the treble. I dunno about the others. The O2 would be the best power wise.

I'd probably start with the E17 for the bass/treble balance controls, and save up for like the E09K for more power later on, while still being able to use the E17's controls with it.


----------



## LelouchLeonhart

Hmmm I believe you used to own a Matrix M-stage before your NFB. Recommend I save for that maybe?


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





lelouchleonhart said:


> Hmmm I believe you used to own a Matrix M-stage before your NFB. Recommend I save for that maybe?


 
  The M-Stage is a home/desktop amp though, I thought you were looking for a portable?
   
  What MLE is suggesting is to get the E17 for now, and then if you needed more power, you can pair it with the E9. Keep in mind that the E17 will also be your DAC in the chain, meaning that you'll should see an increase in SQ over an amp by itself (in stereo), as well as being able to use the EQ in the E17 both at home and on the go. 
   
  If you do decide to get the m stage, you might want to look at something a little cheaper in the meantime. An E11 will surely have enough power for the 990Pro, and its less than half the price of the E17. The E11 also has limited EQ functions but these are mainly for boosting bass, and may not be suitable for your application.


----------



## draliko

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hello from America! Your English is much better than my Italian
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the reply, things are getting clearer 
  The ampli is a yamaha rx-v367 a bit old but it does have silent cinema (i wasn't aware of this feature, yamaha does need to promote it better), so probably the best solutions is to go with a decent headset and a dedicated audio card for the gaming rig. (if i understand, sc should provide surrond virtualization for everything i connect to the ampli, even tho i'll have to configure it a bit based on the headset too).
  I will surely need to upgrade the behringer (they're really cheap, but sound decently compared to other set i've had) and will need a good cord extension too (sofa not so close to tv ), so you think the CAL! can be ok (found them a 55€ shipped new)? I like sets that are classified as "fun", i'm not really in the competitive side of gaming and need something that can isolate me well from outside noise (since i'll be using it also with the gaming rig that's a bit noisier). For the internal audio card some suggestion? I'm reading the nameless topic too in the meantime 
  Thanks again, i think i've really found the solution for all my problems!  btw any way to directly control the volume of a headset if it doesn't have controls on cable? i hate audio controls on keyboards  and when gaming i can't go back and forth to desktop to adjust volumes 
  Thanks again!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL surely does not isolate well. The only thing I can think of that does, is the HM5 or FA-003, and I dunno their price over there.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Double tru!
> Sushi, u crazy. *goes back to playing with his *iPad 2**


 
  LMAO!!! I actually laughed at loud... lol
   
  Jk.. JK...
   
  You know I actually think this is one internet forum that I've been on for over 3 months and haven't pissed anyone off yet. *The world will end in 7 days...*


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Ohhh.. I thought Nameless abandoned ship.
> 
> 
> I dunno about that... still haven't gotten accustomed to the Win7OS and I keep switching between comps so....yea. A free upgrade to Professional is very enticing, plus the offer is valid till March of 2013 *hopefully* most of the bug/driver issues/general "burn in
> ...


 
  So what is better in a since. AKG x70x or AD900s? Both priced the same on amazon. (20 buck difference maybe)


----------



## ruuku

I'll let you know once I receive the Q701, but I can only honestly compare with the Q, and not the K series because I've never heard them... should be early next week. I can only compare the AD900s to my DT990Pros, and honestly I think those two are too different in character to give a  fair comparison. I can tell you this though, the fit on the AD900 is love it or hate it, and I hated it. The wing design isn't so bad on paper, but the drivers/driver housing is so big that the lower end of the pads rested on my lower jaw, and it was so uncomfortable that I couldn't stand it for longer than half an hour. Comfort (or lack thereof) definitely added to not wanting to keep it. OTOH the even with the increased clamp on the Pros, they are superb in terms of comfort. I honestly could wear these for hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku said:


> I'll let you know once I receive the Q701, but I can only honestly compare with the Q, and not the K series because I've never heard them... should be early next week. I can only compare the AD900s to my DT990Pros, and honestly I think those two are too different in character to give a  fair comparison. I can tell you this though, the fit on the AD900 is love it or hate it, and I hated it. The wing design isn't so bad on paper, but the drivers/driver housing is so big that the lower end of the pads rested on my lower jaw, and it was so uncomfortable that I couldn't stand it for longer than half an hour. Comfort (or lack thereof) definitely added to not wanting to keep it. OTOH the even with the increased clamp on the Pros, they are superb in terms of comfort. I honestly could wear these for hours.




Pretty much how I felt. Despite my absolute hate for the wing design on the technicas, the jaw discomfort is damn high as well. I didn't address that on my listing here, which I should. To be fair the DT990s also gave me that problem, but not nearly as bad.


----------



## genclaymore

Yea my DT880 pro-250 I had after awhile the earpads would hurt my ears because the tip of them would hit the top insides of the headphone. Other then the clamp force, even with it loosen up.


----------



## Hailin

Yes the E17 has treble and bass controls.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> Yes the E17 has treble and bass controls.




Wrong thread? Lol.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wrong thread? Lol.


 
  Lol. Nope my stupid skim reading doh.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, the thing that concerns me about ATI/AMD cards these days happens to be the drivers.
> 
> Things weren't so bad when I was using a Radeon 9600 XT under Windows XP, but when I tried a notebook with a Mobility Radeon X2300 (which is actually a DX9.0c part, so it got shunted onto the "legacy" driver structure), the experience was pretty bad.
> 
> ...


 
   
  AMD drivers are much better than they were back in 05-07 or whenever the 8800 came out. If you have the money then 680s all the way. I am not a bandwagon fan of the 670s like most people but for 400 bucks you can't beat it. (I love it when AMD and NVidia have price wars!) I'd say go for the 7970s GHz as they are much better than the 7950s for the price. It's also all on what you need and the games you play. The 680s do bench a bit better than the 7970s but then again they came out months afterward. I'd say compare benchmarks and prices and go with what you like. I recommend EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS, and MSI. Gigabyte isn't bad and Power Color are good budget cards. Galaxy is terrabad. Gigabyte makes good motherboards but their cards are okay. Some cards work better underwater than they do on air too. Come up with an idea, a price, and a list of games and I'll talk to a few PC buds of mine and get a  general consensus. 
   
  Quote: 





ruuku said:


> I'll let you know once I receive the Q701, but I can only honestly compare with the Q, and not the K series because I've never heard them... should be early next week. I can only compare the AD900s to my DT990Pros, and honestly I think those two are too different in character to give a  fair comparison. I can tell you this though, the fit on the AD900 is love it or hate it, and I hated it. The wing design isn't so bad on paper, but the drivers/driver housing is so big that the lower end of the pads rested on my lower jaw, and it was so uncomfortable that I couldn't stand it for longer than half an hour. Comfort (or lack thereof) definitely added to not wanting to keep it. OTOH the even with the increased clamp on the Pros, they are superb in terms of comfort. I honestly could wear these for hours.


 
   
  Good to know. I use the Q701 myself and I like them but the fall off my head too easy and I hate that. (I don't really have a large head 7 1/8" hat size)
  I also think I'm more prone to closed back because I run fans on my CPU (obv) and also many fans in my room just because it's so hot. Plus my wife and other people in the house so having a way to block out the noise would be nice. I do like how these sound when talking to people. It's very clear and crisp these 701 but being open backs they are very airy. I hope to hear good things about the HP. So which ones are you ordering again?... lol jk.
   
   
  @whoever. You guys got screwed by those companies when trying to get your gear. They sent you nicer ones then wanted you to pay for their mistake? Sounds like a gimmick to me and a free upgrade.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I FINALLY added images to the headphone listings! I know I was getting asked to do this via pm multiple times...

I never did it because that's What google is for. Oh well, it looks more professional?


----------



## ruuku

Ohhhh.... pretty. Definitely looks good. 
   
  I just hope that people READ the descriptions.. I can see postings now that say... I bought model XXXX because it looked coolest to me... but they totally suck. I shouldn't say anything though as I still want a pair of 880s because they look damn good (to me...there's no accounting for taste).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 880s are one of the best looking headphones I've owned, easily. They're also damn good. Probably the best $250 or so headphone I've owned, despite it's slightly inferior positional cues. Seriously, for music, the DT880s at $250 may as well be an endgame headphone. They're that damn good. They do justice to everything, similar to how I feel of the HE400, with a more aggressive treble peak. I mean, there are some people who prefer the DT880 to the T1. That's saying a helluva lot.


----------



## ruuku

Well I was on the fence as to picking a pair up after the Qs..... Thanks for the decidedly violent push into the must have side... well played sir.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IMHO, the Q701 is better for gaming, but for music? No brainer, the DT880s by a stretch.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Sometime soon I'll give you a review on these. My wife uses them more than I do but they are awesome little earbuds for bass heads.
   
*Velodyne Vpulse in ear headphones black.*


----------



## NinjaSushi2

SO! This guy on jsp wants a headset for 100 bucks that runs on PC and Xbox. *I'm lost here* This is all you MLE. I couldn't offer any combo with 100 bucks. Oh and it has to be a "good" one. lol
   
   
   
    


> [size=11.333333015441895px]Help Me Find A Good Wireless Headset[/size]


----------



## ruuku

LOL! Turtle beach PX3... that's best I can come up with. Certainly not what I would consider "good" SQ wise, heck its not even Dolby. 
   
  You *could* direct him to this thread... MLE's seems to always be willing to help, confirm with him first though; I certainly don't want to volunteer MLE to help.
   
_IF _he's willing to shop around and be waiting on things (doesn't sound like he is though) he could try picking up components here and there. I'm probably going to be selling the AX 720 (5.1) decoder box once I get the mixamp in (ebay seller took longer than a week to ship...grrr....) and probably only looking to get like $40 out of it. Want to do some A/B testing for the 1st page guide before i sell it though. There are deals to be had, but I'm certainly not of the patient sort and would rather pay a little more now than to wait source things together.
   
  Some advice i could give would be to order the DX mike NOW.... If he ends up not using it then he's only out $3.


----------



## AxelCloris

Off topic. MLE, Ryoko, wonderful choice! The Tenchi series are some of my all time favorites. I even have a Tenchi Muyo D20 based players handbook.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ryoko is my original fictional love... I like them badass females. I'm currently re-watching everything Tenchi... 


As for a headset that is $100, I honestly can't recommend any. I'd easily recommend something like the AD700+modmic, Creative Aurvana Live+modmic. That's about it. Actual headsets are horrible. He might wanna look into the Steelseries Siberia V2... they might be decent.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ryoko is my original fictional love... I like them badass females. I'm currently re-watching everything Tenchi...


 
   
  Now you're going to make me do the same. I gotta say when it comes to favorite Tenchi ladies, my pick was always for Kiyone or Tsunami. Moreso Kiyone, just because the other half of Tsunami is Sasami, and even though she's a couple hundred years old, she still looks frickin' young. 
   
  As for the headset, I've never found a headset that sounded better than quality headphones in the sub-$100 range. Get some decent sounding headphones and a modmic. I'm partial to it specifically after owning a certain famous clip-on mic which I felt was crap. Don't know anything about MLE's DX mic firsthand.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now that I'm older, I realize was a disservice the later Tenchi series were to the characters. They made them so one dimensional. The original Tenchi Muyo was/is still the best. Kajishima Masaki ruined the original series with OAV3 though...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Now that I'm older, I realize was a disservice the later Tenchi series were to the characters. They made them so one dimensional. The original Tenchi Muyo was/is still the best. Kajishima Masaki ruined the original series with OAV3 though...


 
   
  I gave up before I got into OVA3. The original was what I fell in love with, and when I got my hands on Tenchi Universe I was ecstatic. But then came along Tenchi in Tokyo and to me that fell very short. The movies were hit and miss for me as well. But Tenchi will always be special to me as it was one of the first not-censored-for-television series that I saw. But alas, we're getting off topic. So to bring it slightly back, LOVE my Tenchi OSTs.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> AMD drivers are much better than they were back in 05-07 or whenever the 8800 came out. If you have the money then 680s all the way. I am not a bandwagon fan of the 670s like most people but for 400 bucks you can't beat it. (I love it when AMD and NVidia have price wars!) I'd say go for the 7970s GHz as they are much better than the 7950s for the price. It's also all on what you need and the games you play. The 680s do bench a bit better than the 7970s but then again they came out months afterward. I'd say compare benchmarks and prices and go with what you like. I recommend EVGA, XFX, Sapphire, ASUS, and MSI. Gigabyte isn't bad and Power Color are good budget cards. Galaxy is terrabad. Gigabyte makes good motherboards but their cards are okay. Some cards work better underwater than they do on air too. Come up with an idea, a price, and a list of games and I'll talk to a few PC buds of mine and get a  general consensus.


 
   
  Well, at least they're improving. However, there's also CUDA and PhysX GPU acceleration to consider...
   
  Funny that you mention Galaxy being horrible, because guess who makes my highly non-reference (altered PCB and HSF) 8800 GT? It's still going strong to this day, unlike a lot of reference cards that must've cooked to death due to the single-slot HSF, though something is strange in that I can't control the fan speed at all through drivers.
   
  That said, I think my next card's going to be EVGA, just because of the support and the general feeling that by the time I buy that GTX 670, the Maxwell cards are going to be around the corner and I'll want to utilize that Step-Up Program.


----------



## Evshrug

draliko said:


> Thanks for the reply, things are getting clearer
> The ampli is a yamaha rx-v367 a bit old but ....
> ...
> Thanks again, i think i've really found the solution for all my problems!  btw any way to directly control the volume of a headset if it doesn't have controls on cable? i hate audio controls on keyboards  and when gaming i can't go back and forth to desktop to adjust volumes
> Thanks again!



We have the EXACT SAME Ampli/receiver! @o@
The CAL is fun, doesn't leak much sound _out_ but by all reports it doesn't do great keeping the dog or wife quiet. Barking and similar is _best_ blocked by canalphones or IEMs, such as made by Etymotic or Shure. Computer fans may be quieted enough by closed headphones, I'm not sure which does best at around the CAL!'s price (€).
I personally think keyboard audio controls are way better than going back and forth to the desktop, but a portable amp can give you a knob or buttons to adjust volume. An internal soundcard for your PC will already have its own amp, so... Unless you don't mind double amping, you may just have to get used to controlling the sound from the keyboard OR from the in-game settings menu. Of course, with the RX-V367, you can just use the remote control ^_~

... Uh, there are in-line gain-limiter controls you can buy that will allow you to turn down the volume, but... They hurt the sound quality. I wouldn't recommend them, you may feel different.



namelesspfg said:


> Well, at least they're improving. However, there's also CUDA and PhysX GPU acceleration to consider...
> Funny that you mention Galaxy being horrible, because guess who makes my highly non-reference (altered PCB and HSF) 8800 GT?



My GForce GTS 250 is also a galaxy! Might be the same card as yours though... Lol! The XTremeGamer overclocking software (or whatever it's called) that came with it allowed me to turn down the fan speed, though I think the latest NVidia driver helped too to tame the fan noise until it really needed it.
It's not the most powerful card, and I would also try to get a EVGA card to upgrade, but I don't really NEED an upgrade yet. I want the CUDA acceleration, and I still read about microstutter and textural glitches about new AMD cards. I would avoid crossfire. I was surprised with my GTS 250 how I didn't have to have everything on low to enjoy SW:TOR (before I realized that I couldn't just play it casually while playing other games), and I expect better-than-XBox360 visuals in Skyrim once I finally finish Oblivion.


----------



## ruuku

Ok guys let me know what your take on my next purchase. I'm thinking of picking up a Fiio e10. Not as an endgame solution but since the release of the ODA seems so far away, especially since no concrete date has been set, it may be an interim solution.
   
  Perhaps one of the main reasons for getting the E10 is the fact that I has a coax out... I can understand Astro's decision to put in the coax, as it maximizes the amount of compatibility for the Mixamp. Someone mentioned before that their blu-ray player had no S/PDIF. However, NONE of my current devices have a coax out...thus I can utilize the Mixamp with both the Xbox and the PC. From what I've been reading SQ/DAC/amp functions are all good (the only widespread problem I've been hearing is the headphone out which I may/many not use). My only concern in the fact the E10 will be upstream of the Mixamp, thus acting like an preamp. Although I'm _assuming _that since its a digital connection that it should play well with the Mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

In short, do you think the E10 will pass surround channels to the Mixamp? I don't think so.

Early batches of E10s had headphone jack problems, but more recent reports indicate that is no longer a likely problem. However, many people report that the first 3/4 of a second of each song is cut off as well. These issues (and the fact that it can't be used solely as an amp) made me decide to pass.

If internal soundcard isn't an option (cheaper than E10 anyway), then maybe consider the Creative X-Fi Go! USB dongle? It's not audiophile quality, but it does have DH, OpenAL, and EAX support. Tempting at $25 on Amazon.


----------



## ruuku

Thanks for the reply Evshrug!
  Sorry I should have clarified... and actually I'm an bit shaky in how the the D/A Processing would work on this.... the setup would look like this:
  PC-->E10(Line Out)-->Receiver (Wondering how badly the receiver's own DAC would affect SQ...from what I've found out there's now way to bypass the DAC in my receiver unless its doing it without my knowledge, say in normal modes; then again, considering my receiver doesn't even have digital inputs does it even have a DAC? Edit: on thinking about it I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a DAC) 
  PC-->E10(Coax)-->Mixamp
  Xbox/PS3(S/PDIF)-->Mixamp
   
  The main reason in purchasing the E10 would be from some audible clipping/static/distortion (Music) of higher freqs...even on high quality FLAC. I'm pretty sure the E10 _should_ carry the surround effectively into the Mixamp, but am not certain. 
   
  Earlier on was was looking at sound cards as this is definitely an option seeing as i have free PCI-e ports, but decided that cost vs performance I would probably be better to just look at a dedicated DAC/amp. Plus I really like the option of having a pot to adjust volume, Which is why the receiver is acting as my main amp right now.  
   
  I may just end of ditching this old receiver and looking for something that has a little more functionality. HK/Yamaha seem like a good choice... If I end up purchasing a DH/SC capable receiver (I would still like to keep my speakers)  is it even worth it looking for a dedicated dac/amp combo for HP use? Sorry I know this is kind of off topic...


----------



## calpis

Broke down and bought a wired mixamp on ebay for $55 since I was getting tired of wearing the xbox wireless mic under my 2900. I'll be working on a wireless solution later so I wont have to have the chat cable connected to my controller.


----------



## ruuku

Calpis did you ever get the Korea IPS? I bought one off ebay, and so far is pretty stellar. I went for the LED backlit crossover (MDP 27) so it wasn't so budget-priced, but I'm pretty impressed as it has more i/o than the Dell Ultrasharps and the same resolutions/color range/response times.


----------



## calpis

Going to hold off on getting a Korean ips for now because game releases has started already. I'm also waiting a little bit for some US based companies to start selling them here. There was one that I read about either on TheVerge or on engadget.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Sorry I should have clarified... and actually I'm an bit shaky in how the the D/A Processing would work on this.... the setup would look like this:
> 
> PC-->E10(Line Out)-->Receiver (Wondering how badly the receiver's own DAC would affect SQ...from what I've found out there's now way to bypass the DAC in my receiver unless its doing it without my knowledge, say in normal modes; then again, considering my receiver doesn't even have digital inputs does it even have a DAC? Edit: on thinking about it I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a DAC)
> 
> ...


----------



## ruuku

Thanks chicolom,
  its nice to get results from an owner, I totally understand that at this price point I'm not going to be getting the best sq, but one also has to figure in cost/performance as well. If the coax connection doesn't carry  the dolby signal then I'll probably just get a S/PDIF switch. I know MLE hasn't been getting good results of a passive switch but this looks hopeful: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003C15798/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller= that way at least I can hook up the PS3, XBox & PC without having to change the plugs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's hell expensive, and I want one.


----------



## Eric_C

Pics make the first post real purdy to look at MLE. Good job.


----------



## genclaymore

Heres a manual one http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2 that's cheaper. sure it doesn't have 5 plugs on it and doesn't have a remote.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

genclaymore said:


> Heres a manual one http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2 that's cheaper. sure it doesn't have 5 plugs on it and doesn't have a remote.




Yeah, that's one I owned twice. Its a piece of trash.

Don't mess with manual ones.


----------



## calpis

I thought about getting this one when I was going to downsize my setup and get rid of my receiver.
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2
   
  Now I'm just going to use the optical passthrough from my receiver to the mixamp and still use the receiver for video switching and speaker duty.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Calpis did you ever get the Korea IPS? I bought one off ebay, and so far is pretty stellar. I went for the LED backlit crossover (MDP 27) so it wasn't so budget-priced, but I'm pretty impressed as it has more i/o than the Dell Ultrasharps and the same resolutions/color range/response times.


 
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Going to hold off on getting a Korean ips for now because game releases has started already. I'm also waiting a little bit for some US based companies to start selling them here. There was one that I read about either on TheVerge or on engadget.


 
  All righty! For the record this is the best Korean Monitor to Price Monitor! (Not sure if you bought the IPS or S-IPS LG one.)
   
  Catleap Q270 LED S-IPS by Yamakasi. It is an S-IPS (Super-In Plane Switching) Monitor. Dell sells S-IPS Ultra sharps starting at 1000 USD. These have Dell and LG innerds (Guts/parts) and sell for about 320 starting and up to 400 USD for perfect pixel (No dead pixels). Hands down the best monitor on the market for Price to Performance Ratio. You can even remove the bevel and OC the monitor to 100 MHz making it amazing for gaming and the GTG response time is 5MS. FOR AN S-IPS!!?!?!?!? Crazy!!!
   
  He paid about 627 USD for his Crossover Pivot Perfect blah blah blah 27" S-IPS just to have it say "LG" on it. $649.98 USD
*http://tinyurl.com/9njrhy9*
   
  Same monitor... half the price. Catleap Q270 LED S-IPS  2 monitors for $615.90 USD.
*http://tinyurl.com/984z22u*
   
  Now I am not trying to sound like an ass, but I just want to let everyone know there is/are much better deals. Also here is what OCN says about this monitor. I was one of the first to get it when they released in February and it is one absolute - amazing monitor. I've had mine for months no problem. There is one issue however. The stand it comes on is/feels very chinsy but you can buy aftermarket stand or even wall mount these as they are 100x100 VESA. The price has gone up on these buy 50 bucks since I bought mine and I have a feeling it will keep going up.
   
   
  If you want more proof here is the Overclock.net (OCN) thread. I was one of the first to buys these and it is totally worth it. They have all the specs on the monitors, how to remove bevels, OC, modify, etc. It has been tested, compared, etc, and it is the real deal folks.
   
*http://tinyurl.com/8sxcvbf*


----------



## robwalton

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> All righty! For the record this is the best Korean Monitor to Price Monitor! (Not sure if you bought the IPS or S-IPS LG one.)


 
   
  I second that! These monitors might look too good to be true, but they really are amazing!
   
  I got the Achieva Shimian, which is basically Catleap's brother and I couldn't be happier! 
   
  If anyone here is on the fence, don't be, these are very good indeed.
   
  I guess they are this cheap because you are essentially paying for the panel. They don't have HDMI, speakers, nothing, only an amazing panel and a DVI-D port.
   
  But if that's what you want, then you are in for a treat!


----------



## calpis

Isn't it too late to get an OC'able catleap w/o getting price gouged? 
   
  But yah, I've read a bit about the catleaps already but I really do need a multi input since I have my xbox/ps3/desktop all connected to the same monitor. I'm essentially waiting for reviews about this particular one since it has the kinds of ports that I want to use now (hdmi 1.4a) and ones that I might need to use in the future (DisplayPort).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6131/nixeus-vue-27-a-430-wqhd-2560x1440-sips-led-monitor
   
  I'd totally get a tempered glass model if I didn't need a multi input monitor.
   
  Back on topic: Once my mixamp arrives I'll be trying out this mic since I don't think there will be a Y cable coming along with the mixamp. http://www.amazon.com/Monster-iSoniTalk-Microphone-Headphone-Adapter/dp/B000V8RCTS
  I already bought this ($3) over a  year ago and was left unused, so now's the perfect time to give it a  test run.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Has pretty bad ratings.


----------



## calpis

But I already have it D:
   
  Anyways, most of the bad ratings are because of the design of the jack/plug and how big it is when it's in your pocket (which I'd agree with). Since the mixamp won't fit in my pocket, I don't think it'd be much for concern 
   
  Edit: I'll be using that until I get around to ordering a proper y cable like this one since it costs $10 to ship the $7 ycable from astro to my house (which is only an hour away). http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SP0WAQ/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Calpis did you ever get the Korea IPS? I bought one off ebay, and so far is pretty stellar. I went for the LED backlit crossover (MDP 27) so it wasn't so budget-priced, but I'm pretty impressed as it has more i/o than the Dell Ultrasharps and the same resolutions/color range/response times.


 
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Going to hold off on getting a Korean ips for now because game releases has started already. I'm also waiting a little bit for some US based companies to start selling them here. There was one that I read about either on TheVerge or on engadget.


 
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Isn't it too late to get an OC'able catleap w/o getting price gouged?
> 
> But yah, I've read a bit about the catleaps already but I really do need a multi input since I have my xbox/ps3/desktop all connected to the same monitor. I'm essentially waiting for reviews about this particular one since it has the kinds of ports that I want to use now (hdmi 1.4a) and ones that I might need to use in the future (DisplayPort).
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6131/nixeus-vue-27-a-430-wqhd-2560x1440-sips-led-monitor
> ...


 
  They have versions with multi outputs but they don't OC as well. Seeing as you or I or anyone really wont be OCing a S-IPS, I don't see why you can't look into one of those. 
  Quote: 





robwalton said:


> I second that! These monitors might look too good to be true, but they really are amazing!
> 
> I got the Achieva Shimian, which is basically Catleap's brother and I couldn't be happier!
> 
> ...


 
  Yes it is. I've heard good things about those. Slightly cheaper but still decent. Smaller right? It's been awhile since I read up on it.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Has pretty bad ratings.


 
  What does?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> They have versions with multi outputs but they don't OC as well. Seeing as you or I or anyone really wont be OCing a S-IPS, I don't see why you can't look into one of those.


 
   
  Oh, when I looked at the multi catleaps before they were in the $450 range. Now it looks like they're at $420 now. But yeah, no rush atm since the rush of games is starting and I'm already playing on a 27" 1080p samsung.
   
  Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> What does?


 
   
  The Monster mic that I linked to.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

So question. is 558>701? or is 701>558?
   
  Senheiser HD558 vs. AKG x70x
   
  I should edit this. I know the 558s are better but my buddy wont believe me. Rather I should say 598s vs. 701. Would this be a better comparison? Same category almost?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> So question. is 558>701? or is 701>558?
> 
> Senheiser HD558 vs. AKG x70x
> 
> I should edit this. I know the 558s are better but my buddy wont believe me. Rather I should say 598s vs. 701. Would this be a better comparison? Same category almost?


 
  I would have assumed (guessed)  the AKG Q701 is better then the HD558/HD598, when the Q701 is properly amplified.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would have assumed (guessed)  the AKG Q701 is better then the HD558/HD598, when the Q701 is properly amplified.


 
   
  x2. Even for music and general use, the SQ of the 558 seems to be unworthy of comparison to the 70x. Given that the 5x8 headphones are step ups from the 5x5 line, but are still considered below the 6x0 range, and that the 6x0 range and the AKG 70x headphones were considered direct competitors... like, no. I'd just trust MLE, chicolom and a whole bunch of other people in this thread--especially on the Q701 over and above the K70x headphones. 
   
  Ditch the Sennheiser if you can afford the Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

True that. The HD598 was pretty good, but I feel the Q701 is worth the extra and then some.


----------



## robwalton

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Yes it is. I've heard good things about those. Slightly cheaper but still decent. Smaller right? It's been awhile since I read up on it.
> What does?


 
   
  Actually they are the same size as the Catleap, 27 inches. I would say they even use the same panel!
   
  I guess with mine was cheaper then the Pixel Perfect Catleap, but the regular one was about the same price.


----------



## ruuku

Just got the Qs in, and I must say I'm pretty impressed. I don't know if its "new toy" syndrome, but I'm really liking the soundstage and separation. The bass is there, and certainly more plentiful than the AD900s. I was going to compare the Q701 to the AD900s but since I no longer have them, I'm not too sure if I can be all that objective. What I can say is that the Qs are way more comfortable, but I miss the pillow like softness of the pads on the DT990Pros. It seems like the AX720DB can properly drive these though, getting a good amount of bass/bass clarity. 
   
  Ninja: sorry haven't heard the Senns, so I have nothing to add. 
   
  MLE: since you've done by far the most HP comparisons/reviews in the thread, are there any must listen to songs that demonstrate the strengths weakness of a certain 'phone? I know of the songs you posted for sub/midbass but any recommendations for mids, highs, soundstage (I'm guessing symphonic/live), and separation? I have a pretty good library to choose from, so if its anything remotely mainstream I may have it, and if not there's alway spotify. When I do the games comparison I'll probably use DeadSpace 2, Crysis2, Fallout3, COD4, and Dead Island, I think these games have some of the best audio (that I own) to test surround...  Hmmm... maybe Rage?


----------



## Evshrug

@ ruuku,
You ought to try out the mass effect games, at least sample ME2.

Anyone have reason to dissuade me from buying a FiiO E11 on my next paycheck to use with my Ety ER-6i and Q701? Also, I have a few items of adapter/mic goodness that should be arriving around the end of the week ^_^


----------



## ruuku

Whoops, forgot about ME, played the heck out of 1, and ran through 2 twice. I should probably start looking around for a used copy of 3, should be pretty cheap. The reason I forgot it is because I lent my copy of 2 to a friend, and 1 was downloaded, so I don't have a physical copy. Was looking at my bookcase with my games when I posted. 
   
  As for the E11, I've been hearing good things about the upcoming "top of the line" E12, so I'm waiting for that to be released and reviewed before I pull the trigger on an E11. It *seems* like I'm getting enough power from both my reciever and the AX720DB, so for now I'm holding off.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





robwalton said:


> Actually they are the same size as the Catleap, 27 inches. I would say they even use the same panel!
> 
> I guess with mine was cheaper then the Pixel Perfect Catleap, but the regular one was about the same price.


 
  I know it's different but I just don't feel like reading through my OCN pages lol.
  Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Just got the Qs in, and I must say I'm pretty impressed. I don't know if its "new toy" syndrome, but I'm really liking the soundstage and separation. The bass is there, and certainly more plentiful than the AD900s. I was going to compare the Q701 to the AD900s but since I no longer have them, I'm not too sure if I can be all that objective. What I can say is that the Qs are way more comfortable, but I miss the pillow like softness of the pads on the DT990Pros. It seems like the AX720DB can properly drive these though, getting a good amount of bass/bass clarity.
> 
> Ninja: sorry haven't heard the Senns, so I have nothing to add.
> 
> MLE: since you've done by far the most HP comparisons/reviews in the thread, are there any must listen to songs that demonstrate the strengths weakness of a certain 'phone? I know of the songs you posted for sub/midbass but any recommendations for mids, highs, soundstage (I'm guessing symphonic/live), and separation? I have a pretty good library to choose from, so if its anything remotely mainstream I may have it, and if not there's alway spotify. When I do the games comparison I'll probably use DeadSpace 2, Crysis2, Fallout3, COD4, and Dead Island, I think these games have some of the best audio (that I own) to test surround...  Hmmm... maybe Rage?


 
  No worries homie and good idea on music question. As for games I'd say MW3. (I know I know COD game...) 
   
  I say this because you can be an ass and use SitRep Pro. (For those who don't know what SitRep Pro is..)
   
  SitRep Pro: Infinity Wards way to screw COD MW3 over! SitRep Pro makes everyone else's footsteps louder. (So whats so new/bad about that?)
  Dead Silence Pro - Completely silent (No footstep noise at all)
   
  So I still don't get it?
   
  Well the Pro part of SitRep Pro cancels out people with Dead Silence. YEP! THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS! Even if you earn Dead Silence when you learn/earn at a later level, SitRep Pro is made to make that skill completely useless. Now Dead Silence does wonders if no one has SitRep Pro as MW3 is a very "noisy" game and it allows you to be completely silent.
   
  Say Search and Destroy! 1 Life no respawn. Dead Silence wins here... unless of course some jerk off has SitRep Pro. Now on SRP people can hear you clear as day, except now you can hear everyone else clear as day regardless. MixAmp Pro + O2 amp + K702. "Oh jeez.. this game just became easy."
   
  /end rant! Sorry!
   
_*So I advise if you have MW3, it would probably be a great source/game to test positioning on a headphone just because you can cheat everyone out of a fair game. SRP - Bad for games. Good for testing headphones!*_
   
*For PC Gamers! *I should probably add this to Nameless PFG thread but..
   
I have confirmed that Hyper-Threading does in fact have a significant advantage in some video games. Now not all and by all means faster core clock is still the best way to get high FPS but! Hyper Threading if your core supports it adds a nice advantage on max, average, or min FPS on some games and a HUGE advantage on others. 4 GHz HT vs. 4 GHz non-HT on games like Dragon Age Origin. DA:O
   
4 GHz HT added more minimum FPS and more average FPS vs. 4 GHz non-HT. What does this mean? It means your PC will lag less on certain games if you enable Hyper Threading. Here is the benchmarks:
   
http://www.overclock.net/t/671977/hyperthreading-in-games/0_20
   
  Sorry for off topic but I couldn't resist! Now does HT help for sound? Probably not.. LOL
   
  Edit: Let it be said that hyper threading helps on GPU physics yet with the increased core temps it is not an advantage to gaming. Turning off HTT will allow higher head room for OC temps and higher Core speeds = better FPS on games over HTT to physics ratio.


----------



## blackmarket

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If these indeed sound exactly the same as the 595 (or modded 555s), then unless you really need a mic and volume control all in one package, you'll be saving money by going with the 555's and modding them for the 595 sound and attach a mic. However, the PC360 can be had for around $180, and brings everything in one very attractive package. I can't say anything about the 555 and 595, but the PC360 is definitely a gaming beast.


 
  I have the 595 and bought a pair of PC360 a while ago and sadly the PC360 do not sound as good as the 595. I had expected them to sound better but ah well. That being said, I still agree that the PC360 is definitely good for fps gaming and the raise-boom-to-mute-mic function is very convenient rather than fumbling for an inline switch.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





blackmarket said:


> I have the 595 and bought a pair of PC360 a while ago and sadly the PC360 do not sound as good as the 595. I had expected them to sound better but ah well. That being said, I still agree that the PC360 is definitely good for fps gaming and the raise-boom-to-mute-mic function is very convenient rather than fumbling for an inline switch.


 
  I haven't had the pleasure of hearing PC 360 but I would love to hear how good the position is.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> Senheiser HD558 vs. AKG x70x?


 
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would have assumed (guessed)  the AKG Q701 is better then the HD558/HD598, when the Q701 is properly amplified.


 
   
  Ya, I consider the Q701 to be on a different tier/level from the HD5xx (even though I've only heard PC360 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  The Sennheisers are still perfectly good for positioning and what not, they're just a bit more bland sounding. 
   
   
   
  I wonder if the Fostex TH-900 actually has this much of a bass hump compared to the D7000.  Not that I'll ever own one (at $2,000 !!), but OMG it's soooo gorgeous.
   
*edit:*  Headroom says the TH-900 has "earpad cushions made of synthesized protein leather & eggshell membrane".   What


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That chart for the D7000 is way off from what it really sounds like, I'd say. I would say the TH900 chart looks more like the D7000's actual sound. Lots of sub bass, with balanced mids and highs.



Taken from innerfidelity's chart of the latest D7000.

That's one LOVELY frequency response. Looks like a planar's graph.


----------



## ruuku

Got the mixamp in today, and played a couple of games of MW2 and Dead Space 2. Not that I'm surprised, but its sounds pretty much the same as the AX720DB, with reduced static/floor noise. I really like having the large volume knob though, as powering down the AX720DB resets the volume, and turning it up is kind of a PITA, as the controls on the box is button based, and there is no indicator of volume level. I can see how the mixamp is a less elegant solution when it come to wires though, but the pros outweigh the cons, price included (YMMV though). The Q were a wonderful change from the 720s, soundstage feels at least twice as big, and there is an improvement across the whole frequency range. Everything is much cleaner, and crisper. Positioning was superb. I have a feeling that I'll stick with these as my main gaming can.  
   
  Can anyone point me to a tutorial on how to mod the Labtech mic? I got that in as well, and now i can't find that darn guide. I think it was on MLG forums, so in the meantime I'll go looking over there... 
  Edit: Nevermind... I thought the mic came apart. Apparently it was just hacked off...my kind of mod. I'll get out the dremel this weekend. 
   
   
  On another note it was pretty refreshing to go through a game of MW2 without getting noob-tubed. After a terrible first game I got MVP in the second with 15-5-9 with a yellow connection for most of the game. Not my best performance, but certainly not bad after not having played the game in at least 10 or so months.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Believe it or not, I want these...





 The Astro A*Star. I need something quick and easy for portable use, as well as when I'm too lazy to clip on my DX mic (I haven't gamed with a mic in ages, desite having it) when I play on the Mixamp. The A*Star and A30s are about the only things that don't cost a stupid amount of money and are decent from Astro. Not sure about that cord length though.





I had a 38-5 game today on BLOPS, almost all Specter kills (got the dogs and chopper gunner, but we were on Cracked, and the choppers suck on that map. About 10 kills were from the airstreaks. I basically carried my team, though we still lost. Everyone else had less than 5 kills. :rolleyes:

Everyone on the opposing team did well... but they just couldn't kill me, lol.

Ah well, it's not like I'm a team player. I'm terrible at teamwork, though I do put in a lot of work saving some asses.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I've found that it's difficult to play as a team with a public room/server full of strangers because people just don't work together for one reason or another. And from what I've seen, typical Call of Duty team deathmatch gameplay sure doesn't try to promote it with people spawning all over the place, just like any other FPS with TDM mode. Most other team-based gametypes have people spawning on particular sides of the map, so controlling the map is critical, and people naturally try to watch flanks and so forth.
   
  (Or not, if my one experience playing BF1942 on Tobruk years ago was anything to go by. Some clever Axis player kept capping the Allied base instead of going through all the capture points leading to it, quickly making it a two-front battle. NOBODY on the Allied side apart from myself seemed to notice, and so we kept losing.)
   
  Needless to say, I generally play only with friends these days, and most of what we play is co-op. I still find myself dropping into a 64-player BF1942 server every now and then, though. (Yes, people are still playing a 10-year-old multiplayer-centric game. How's that for longevity? I bet EA will pull the plug on all the BF3 servers long before that.)


----------



## Evshrug

I just saw a video of a guy complaining how the new Counter Strike is worse than the (patched) 13 year old game it's meant to replace, because the "skill ceiling" is lower in the current build from the jump stamina and different shot grouping bloom. So yeah, I believe people play old games. We still play soccer and rugby, right?
I really did enjoy the Battlefield (and Halo Reach in Assault Mode) squad spawn and "flag" territory control modes, they do intrinsically make strangers work to support eachother to an extent, while "team" deathmatch modes in games are mostly like free-for-all with only half the players trying to kill you (usually). In Halo, at least there's power weapons and limited weapon supply, which forces players into taking on a certain "role" to be team effective and "hot points" where you can expect a battle for area control. In fact, every time I think about CoD games I get a little annoyed, but it is where I made friends who I now play with regularly.
We have no leader, but I did kinda bring the group together and give us an identity, and I notice that the group starts to break apart when I am away for an extended time. Playing with the same core group for years really makes a difference though, we know eachother's style and our interactions make playing way more fun than the game is by itself. Now two of them are talking montages and MLG, I don't think we're particularly talented but we'll see what happens. I did buy our most nostalgic don't-change-anything-the-first-game-was-best member a copy of BF3 and I hope to see how we really play as a team with objectives. We'll see if they get hooked before EA drops the servers for BF4 (that they already accidentally leaked is under development for release within a year).

I had a chance to have my receiver hooked up for three days since I had the house to myself, but instead I was responsible and hit the grind. I'm hoping that when my separate mic and controller port adapter arrives I'll be able to make competitive play with headphones practical, cuz wearing my mic headset around my neck while using headphones was just not working out. I'll report back if these cheap lapel mics from Amazon (with half the shipping time of the DX mic) are suitable.

Also, I didn't know FiiO was working on an E11 successor... That's the way of technology though.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Believe it or not, I want these...
> 
> The Astro A*Star. I need something quick and easy for portable use, as well as when I'm too lazy to clip on my DX mic (I haven't gamed with a mic in ages, desite having it) when I play on the Mixamp. The A*Star and A30s are about the only things that don't cost a stupid amount of money and are decent from Astro. Not sure about that cord length though.




Sorry about your team. Also, I bet the short-looking length of the cable is just a trick of perspective... Notice how large the earbuds look in relation to the plug? And how do you use these with an Xbox for game and chat audio anyway, does it come with a smartphone wire splitter?
If you're going that route, you could just get the adapters and choose from any of the smartphone headsets. You might find yourself disappointed in Astro again like you were with their flagship model. I'm not making any suggestions though, I think exploration and discovery is half the fun for you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I really, REALLY love flat style cables. I haven't seen any other IEM with it. Even now, the damn Turbines are a disaster when it comes to tangling. Hell, if someone made flat style cables for the Hifimans, I'd probably splurge on it.

As far as the Xbox, you're supposed to use a 2.5mm male/male cable from the Mixamp to the Xbox controller.

My problem with the Turbines is that they're already somewhat smooth, and the comply tips make them really bass heavy and detail recessed, which the Turbines didn't need. It's fine with a massive EQ, but EQ isn't available for things like the PS Vita. It's a boomy mess, unless I use the stock Turbine tips... and I'd rather punch myself in the face than go back to the stock tips. They hurt like hell.

The A Stars are apparently really bright, so I believe the comply foam tips would balance it out. In any case, even with their stock tips, I'm sure it'd be much better than the Turbine's stock tips.


----------



## Evshrug

I think the Bea-*SLAP!* No, I haven't seen other IEMs with flat cables either. And I guess I forgot to account for the Mixamp with Astro's IEM model, the amp costs more than the headphone right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, and Astro doesn't even sell them in a bundle.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Went for these, which have a flat cable, rated highly on Joker's iem thread, and are supposedly comfy...

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Ultimate-Ears-Noise-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B003YKG2XM/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Ultimate Ears 500 - $45

I'd be just as happy with a $20 IEM that has a flat cable and sparkly treble... IEM use isn't that important for me, as I just need treble clarity for gaming, and I can EQ for music every other time. These should do the job. The Turbines were too smooth and bass oriented for me.


----------



## calpis

JAYS makes earphone with a flat cable too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I saw those too, but they didn't look too comfy. We'll see though.


----------



## Mcarter3

> SitRep Pro: Infinity Wards way to screw COD MW3 over! SitRep Pro makes everyone else's footsteps louder. (So whats so new/bad about that?)
> Dead Silence Pro - Completely silent (No footstep noise at all)
> 
> So I still don't get it?
> ...


 
  Dude... cant wait to go home and do this, I had no idea!!!!
   
  I run all over the place in S&D with dead silince on thinking I'm a boss haha.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MW3 is terrible for demoing Dolby Headphone. You're better off demoing MW2 or Black Ops (with ninja pro). MW3's sound is too messy, and the positioning isn't there like before.


----------



## Mcarter3

Interesting, I havent used dolby headphone with MW3 very much but I felt like I got pretty good positioning cues from my HT. But I also havent played MW2 or black ops in a long time and didnt have good surrounds or a good calibration when I was playing those games. Im even more excited now to take the D-7000's for a spin with one of them


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> MW3 is terrible for demoing Dolby Headphone. You're better off demoing MW2 or Black Ops (with ninja pro). MW3's sound is too messy, and the positioning isn't there like before.


 
  I find NinjaPro is too suddle and drowned out by other sounds to be effective more than 10 feet. (Which if someone is sprinting gives you about 1 second to react.)
  Quote: 





mcarter3 said:


> Interesting, I havent used dolby headphone with MW3 very much but I felt like I got pretty good positioning cues from my HT. But I also havent played MW2 or black ops in a long time and didnt have good surrounds or a good calibration when I was playing those games. Im even more excited now to take the D-7000's for a spin with one of them


 
  Crusty Lusty is right on one thing. MW2 would be a great game to test out some DH. Do you know what is even better?... CRYTEK's CRY ENGINE 3!!! Sorry but this game gives me wet dreams.
   
   


Spoiler: Most%20amazing%20game%20to%20ever%20be%20made.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

*The story of 10,000 dollars.*
   
  Let me tell you a story.
   
  Once there was 10,000 dollars walking along the street.
  Here it came by an audio store and decided to take a peak.
  Three hours later the money was gone, but what could have taken its place? 
  A Woo Audio amp and a pair of Stax headphones, both never needing replaced.
   
  The moral of the story is: A penny wisely spent, is a penny not spent at all!


----------



## NamelessPFG

The day I got my Stax Lambda system for $250 was probably the best AND the worst day in my life.
   
  Best because it's probably the best deal I'll ever get on headphones, and it is THE headphone for me when it comes to sound presentation and comfort.
   
  Worst because it may have actually been a gateway drug to Stax and electrostatics in general, tempting me to spend even more. Every time I see a reasonably affordable electrostatic piece of equipment, I get the urge to buy it if able, even though there are other things I want to get and could get with the money spent.


----------



## Eric_C

Stax for $250??
   
  What have I been wasting my time on all this while.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/16/tritton-ax-pr-plus-discrete-5-1-gaming-headset/

Sigh, instead of updating the AX720 with better drivers, or design, they decide to update the stupid nonsense known as the Ax Pro.

When will companies learn that two great drivers with virtual surround tech will always beat multiple, mediocre drivers crammed into each cup? :rolleyes:

If one thing can be said, is that Tritton knowns how to make some really ugly looking headphones.


----------



## genclaymore

The only way they will stop, if people research and stop buying them. Til then they will come out with dozens of new model claiming improvements in the way they place the drivers. While still using cheap mini drivers inside of the cup.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I was doing some testing in how binaural and DH sound from different driver positions (like wearing the headphones with the headband under your chin, but still using the right driver on the right ear, etc. Positional cues are EXACTLY the same. Common sense, as the ear is getting the same exact sound. However, with true 5.1 headsets, you'd mess up the positional cues, due to the multiple drivers being placed strategically...I base that assumption with how the Ultrasone's holes are strategically positioned, and wearing them off center messes with the sound. That's another pro of just having two drivers/standard driver placement. You don't need exact head positioning to get the most out of the sound.

Just random testing before I went to bed, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Stax for $250??
> 
> What have I been wasting my time on all this while.


 
   
  It seems increasingly like I was in the right place (that being Head-Fi B/S/T) in the right time to get a Lambda and an SRD-7/SB that affordably. Most other listings I've seen are in the $300-400 range.
   
  It's easier to do if you don't mind pre-Lambda models like the SR-X/Mk3 and SR-5, which I have yet to try out.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/16/tritton-ax-pr-plus-discrete-5-1-gaming-headset/
> Sigh, instead of updating the AX720 with better drivers, or design, they decide to update the stupid nonsense known as the Ax Pro.
> When will companies learn that two great drivers with virtual surround tech will always beat multiple, mediocre drivers crammed into each cup?
> 
> ...


 
   
  As long as people who don't know any better (and there are a lot of them) keep getting suckered into it and giving these companies money...


----------



## Eric_C

The whole promise of a Stax at that price prompted me to spend the last few hours reading up on electrostatics and planar magnetics. Most productive afternoon in the office, ever.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/16/tritton-ax-pr-plus-discrete-5-1-gaming-headset/
> Sigh, instead of updating the AX720 with better drivers, or design, they decide to update the stupid nonsense known as the Ax Pro.


 
   
  Meh. 
   
  At least their Warheads are finally coming out.  Engadget doesn't seem that impressed though:
     
_"To throw it out there from the start, the Warhead 7.1 sounds very good,* but it's no match for what Turtle Beach and Astro Gaming are offering*. Compared to the A50 we have on hand, the Warhead lacks the crisp fidelity one might expect in this price range -- and it's especially noticeable during music playback...._
   
_...There was also a bit *more* *signal noise* with the Warhead, but nothing that wasn't drowned out by in-game audio. It's not to say that it sounds terrible in comparison, but as with the fit, the audio quality falls short of the competition._
   
_...We'd say in general, the* highs on the Warhead seem a bit veiled*, but this is apparently Tritton's preferred tuning so that effects like gun shots sound fuller. Overall, we can't help but make the common note that it almost feels as there was a dampener between our ears and the headset, making for muddiness instead of crispness._
   
...Notably, the headphones have a* fairly wide soundstage reminiscent of the AX720*, so with Dolby Headphone enabled, the directionality offered by the Warhead in games like Modern Warfare 3 is top-notch. Still, every time we moved up to the A50, we felt closer to using a proper speaker system than having headphones on."
   
   
  It doesn't bode well for the Warheads when the A50s A40s sound like they have a large soundstage in comparison, but compared to some hi-fi headphones the Astros are really more medium-sized in the soundstage department.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I checked AVS once all this was talked about. The Warheads look like a flop, sound quality-wise. Too bad.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I checked AVS once all this was talked about. The Warheads look like a flop, sound quality-wise. Too bad.


 
   
  Ya, I hate to say "I told you so" to anyone that expected them to be good - but just look at them.  As soon as they revealed the prototype design, I groaned.  How good can it sound when it looks like a pair of plastic Batman™ toy headphones.  They're not only closed, they have a battery stuffed in the ear cup. 
   

   
   
_Dear Gaming Headset Makers, _
   
_    Not ALL Gamers are Space Cadets, so please worry about your audio before you worry about _whether your design is hardcore/elite/pro enough to satisfy even the most hardcore/elite/pro gamers.


----------



## calpis

I had the chance to buy those Psykos for $50... I still passed.


----------



## genclaymore

You could had bought them and sold them for more to some one else  , not that I would do it.


----------



## ruuku

Boy am I glad I found this site when I did... I have a $50 down payment for a pair of Warheads. The sad part is that Tritton/Madcatz may still make a profit on the features of the product rather than its performance. I think one key feature will be the ability for true untethered wireless chat. A friend was looking at the warhead, but if its that bad in the SQ, then I'll try and steer him to the PX5/XB500.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> You could had bought them and sold them for more to some one else  , not that I would do it.


 
   
  Nah, I knew I could of but it's not worth it for $30 and the guilt I would get from flipping something obviously bad.


----------



## ZeneticX

any comments for the plantronics gamecon 777 ?
   
   
  was considering that or the siberia V2 frost


----------



## Grymok

Hello all, i'm new here 
  Thanks for the REALLY sweet guide Mad Lust Envy!!
   
  I have been searching for some nice cans for ALONG time, but can't decide .
  I have bought the Panasonic HTF600E-S because of the really nice reviews around the internet!  They are really some nice phones, with sweet quality in sound for the price. They are very sweet for music and such, but when it comes to my FPS games(BF3) i can't really get any good surround position in the phones :S.
  I got an X-fi sound card(followed with my asus rampage II extreme Motherboard) and then an Denon avr1912 reciever for my speaker setup.
  Not sure if it's the cans or my setup there fails, but anyway i'm looking for some new cans 
   
  I have been looking ALOT on the Beyerdynamic dt770 80 ohm, DT 990(not sure which model :S) and then the Sennheiser HD598.
  But really can't decide which one. I'm willing to pay for the quality, but again, not as much as the d7000 .
  But not exactly sure if i need another sound card or an Mixamp plus one of the three cans above?..
   
  Alittle hand would be appreciated
  Have a nice saturday 
[size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my Ultimate Ears 500 yesterday.

They only cost $45, come with the silicone AND a pair of Comply foam tips (though I have a box of comply foam tips I got for the Monster Turbines that did not work well for them.)

The stock tips to gives me that terrible airplane pressure feel, so those tips are absolutely unusable for me.

I put the Comply foam tips on (both the ones that came with it and the ones I already had), and I was surprised that it didn't destroy the SQ like they did with the Turbines (the sound on the Turbines became pure mud and bass when using the foam tips, with absolutely no treble or other details). Dunno what the UE 500 did, but the treble still remained beautifully sparkly, the bass was just a hint deeper, and details were still basically the same.

Love the fact that they have flat cables too.

If I could compare their tonal balance to any full sized headphones, I'd say a cross between the DT880 and DT990 without the full sized soundstage or treble edginess. The bass was emphasized (more than the DT880, but not DT990 strong), the mids were akin to the DT880, and the treble was slightly less than both, meaning their is no jarring edge to them, though they are still sparkly.

For $45, these are just fantastic. They also sound fantastic with the Sony Hybrid tips I also have....



Dunno why the bass is so ridiculous looking on the graphs, but that isn't true to what you'll hear. Also, the treble was airier and sparklier than the Turbines, unlike what the graphs show. The mids are identical to the DT880 on the graph, which is how I remember it.

Unlike every IEM I have owned, the UE500 needs absolutely no equalizing for me. They sound just spot on in stock form (foam tips or Sony hybrids, stock tips sound too damn treble oriented, though I believe it's just personal fitting issues). That's saying something about their sound signature.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Hello all, i'm new here
> Thanks for the REALLY sweet guide Mad Lust Envy!!
> 
> I have been searching for some nice cans for ALONG time, but can't decide .
> ...


 
  Which Creative X-Fi model ? Xtreme Gamer? Titanium (non-HD)? Titanium HD? or other?


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Hello all, i'm new here
> Thanks for the REALLY sweet guide Mad Lust Envy!!
> 
> I have been searching for some nice cans for ALONG time, but can't decide .
> ...


 
  Another HP you might want to consider is the AKG Q701. I haven't heard the Senns or the 770s, but I have both the DT990Pro and Q701s, and for gaming I hands down suggest the Qs. The soundstage is much, much larger. Coming from the AX720s the bass on either of these isn't overpowering to the point of losing positioning, but the Q's are a bit milder in this sense. 
  To me, in FPS, sound stage is the most important quality in a HP, followed closely by positioning, which reflects my prefrence.
  Sorry not too informed about soundcards... do you know if your sound card supports DH? If not you might want to consider an upgrade (the asus Xonar comes pretty highly reccomended around here), or picking up an external DH/THX decoder like the Mixamp, DSS, ecetera, as this will certainly help with gaming.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Sorry not too informed about soundcards... do you know if your sound card supports DH? If not you might want to consider an upgrade (the asus Xonar comes pretty highly reccomended around here), or picking up an external DH/THX decoder like the Mixamp, DSS, ecetera, as this will certainly help with gaming.


 
   
  If he has a proper X-Fi card, he has CMSS-3D Headphone. No need for Dolby Headphone.


----------



## ruuku

Thanks for clearing that up Nameless... is the soundcard HP output on that card enough to power the listed 'phones? Other than the final choice of HP, that would be my other concern.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Nameless... is the soundcard HP output on that card enough to power the listed 'phones? Other than the final choice of HP, that would be my other concern.


 
   
  Depends on the card. For instance, the X-Fi Forte and HomeTheater HD claim to have headphone amps while the Titanium HD allegedly doesn't, but I don't notice any dramatic difference between them...not that I've tried any really demanding dynamic headphones out of it, because I don't have any and don't have plans to buy any, either.
   
  I don't think they'd sound _bad_, even unamped; at least you're going to hear something.
   
  Note that I don't put too much stock into headphone amplifers integrated into sound cards, since they're all useless to me as a budding Stax/electrostatic enthusiast. Better to match the amp to your headphones of choice anyway, instead of trying to match the headphones to your sound card's amp.


----------



## Grymok

I've got he SupremeFX X-Fi sound card http://www.asus.dk/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/Rampage_II_Extreme/
  So it's somewhat pretty crappy. And sometimes the sound meshes up :S. So maybe gonna get a sound card some day anyways 
  I have looked alittle on the Q701, but i just thinks it's alittle to expensive, if i need and Mixamp or sound card to.
  I'm Probaly a Mixamp, but can't decide that either, which one to grab, to which Cans.
  The prices in Denmark is somewhat more expensive than US.
  The Q701 goes for 250£ and the 770 80 ohm and 990 goes for 120-140£, the HD598 is 160£.
  It's pretty hard to choose which combination of setup will suit best 
  Hope the information is good enough


----------



## Xaverian

This might sound silly but I've never used headphones for gaming before...

 How could I attach a mic to my headphones and use them through my xbox controller. Could you include a list of things I would need? The mic would need to be separate or detachable as I'll be using my main headphones Sennheiser HD598s because of their great soundstage.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





grymok said:


> I've got he SupremeFX X-Fi sound card http://www.asus.dk/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/Rampage_II_Extreme/
> So it's somewhat pretty crappy. And sometimes the sound meshes up :S. So maybe gonna get a sound card some day anyways
> I have looked alittle on the Q701, but i just thinks it's alittle to expensive, if i need and Mixamp or sound card to.
> I'm Probaly a Mixamp, but can't decide that either, which one to grab, to which Cans.
> ...


 
  The HD598 would be the easiest to drive, followed by the DT770 and 990s (Depending on what ohm version you buy). Unless you're going to be playing on consoles (Xbox 360/PS3) you might want to look up Nameless's PC Gaming guide (found on the top of the first page), as buying a new sound card + Mixamp might be overkill, and your money _may_ be better spent on a soundcard + amp. You might want to also list what games you're going to be playing, single or competitively, and what kind of music you listen to (if you're going to multipurpose the headphones). I play on Xbox & PS3 so I'll kindly defer to other members who are more knowledgeable about PC Gaming. 
   
  yQuote:
   


xaverian said:


> This might sound silly but I've never used headphones for gaming before...
> 
> How could I attach a mic to my headphones and use them through my xbox controller. Could you include a list of things I would need? The mic would need to be separate or detachable as I'll be using my main headphones Sennheiser HD598s because of their great soundstage.


 
  You can just plug in a 2.5mm connected mic directly into the controller, but this will not give you surround sound through your headphones. If you wanted SS you'll need to buy a Dolby/THX decoder. I would suggest reading the first post's decoder box & mic sections, then returning here to clarify any remaining questions you might have. Off the bat sounds like you would want to look at the Astro Mixamp pro or 5.8 and an antlion mod mike.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The UE 500 has a very enjoyable and crisp sound signature, I'm hoping it works well with the Mixamp, so I can have an IEM to recommend for gaming other than the RE0 (which was very analytical, while the UE500 is fun yet clear, literally like an 880/990 hybrid with less treble peak). The soundstage doesn't give me confidence that it will be decent for DH gaming though.

One thing I noticed is that even though its an IEM and 16ohms, its quite power hungry. My Fuze is pretty powerful as far as unamped devices go, and it needs a lot on it. My NFB5's volume on Low Gain has to go past even some full sized cans (the Pro 900 and D7000 needed less!). O_O


----------



## Grymok

> The HD598 would be the easiest to drive, followed by the DT770 and 990s (Depending on what ohm version you buy). Unless you're going to be playing on consoles (Xbox 360/PS3) you might want to look up Nameless's PC Gaming guide (found on the top of the first page), as buying a new sound card + Mixamp might be overkill, and your money _may_ be better spent on a soundcard + amp. You might want to also list what games you're going to be playing, single or competitively, and what kind of music you listen to (if you're going to multipurpose the headphones). I play on Xbox & PS3 so I'll kindly defer to other members who are more knowledgeable about PC Gaming.


 
  The phones will only be used for PC gaming, what i know of
  They will be used for Battlefield 3 mainly. So mainly FPS.
  I listen to Hip Hop, Rap, Dubstep, Hardstyle, Dance, Rock, Heavy Metal and that kind of genre. 
  As i have read the Q701 take time to get used to, and still it's not sure you can get used to the kind of comfort.  If i'm gonna sit with a headphone for 3-6 hours in a raw, the comfort have to be in the top.
  I have tryed the DT 770 and 990 in out local hifi pusher, and the 5-10 min i tryed them, they was pretty comfy. And all over the place the HD598 get good review on the comfort, but maybe i'm gonna try those, if possible before i consider them 
   
  IGM.com refers the Astro mixamp and the HD598 for the possible best gaming solution atm, for FPS and all around.
  But if the Turtle Beach DDS2, can do the work of the astro mixamp, but for 40£ less, sure i will pick that one .
  Else i should pick a sound card to  make the surround sound work, and then choose a O2 amp from NwAvGuy to drive the phone?  This little beauty http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/ehp-o2d-miniature-desktop-headphone-amplifier-with-usb-dac/
  Thanks for the answers yet


----------



## mais14

current purpose MW3. 360
   
  currently own a pair of Turtle Beach HPA2s, a tritton ax pro decoder box, and an astro mixamp. Right now i'm using the HPA2s w/ the tritton 5.1 decoder box.
   
  my options are 1) buy the hpx-1 adapter to use the HPA2s on the mixamp and rid the problem of double amping ? as i'm happier with using the HPA2's as a 5.1 headset instead of with the mixamp. sound gets bassed up and im just not hearing positioning as well. Is the double amping the reason?
   
  $15 shipping from TB on a $10 cable. please
   
  2) Keep using the HPA2s on the tritton ax pro decoder box.
   
  3) Take those $30 and just get an ad700 and pair that w/ the astromixamp because I want to take envys advice on how DH is just that much better than 5.1 .
   
  No clue on  how much better things can be as I want an upgrade for gaming and possibly headphones for more on the vocal side w/ lacking bass. bass is not my thing
   
  What option should i take and any locals in the Orlando area sell the ad700 by chance ?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mais14 said:


> current purpose MW3. 360
> 
> currently own a pair of Turtle Beach HPA2s, a tritton ax pro decoder box, and an astro mixamp. Right now i'm using the HPA2s w/ the tritton 5.1 decoder box.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I've used the HPX with the mixamp.  I just think the positioning isn't all that great with that set.  I couldn't  tell where sounds are coming from all that well.  I doubt eliminating double amping will help any.  Personally, I would sell them and get some other headphones.
   
  AD700 has great positioning, but no bass.  I no you said bass isn't your thing, but AD700 has tin-can bass.  You could try a Sennheiser HD5x8 or maybe Samson SR850.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Someone else from Orlando? Coolz

So, I played a few rounds of BLOPS with my UE 500. Sadly, it didn't sound right. I didn't expect it to. IEMs just don't generally pair up with the Mixamp. The UE 500 is pretty insensitive for an IEM, so it wasn't any more hissy than the HE400. Still, the sound was off. the gunshots were fatiguing, positioning and soundstage were bad, and certain sound effects were muffled. It's weird. The UE500 has a very crisp sound signature when listening to music and whatnot, but I guess since DH is slightly bass emphasized, it didn't match up. Oh well. I didn't buy it for that purpose anyways. I love the UE 500 for music and portable gaming.

---

Impulse purchase... the DT990/32 AND E17 are on their way. h34r:


The DT990/32 may get it's own listing, if it's different enough from the 600ohm, though going off my friend's impressions on ohm differences, I don't expect a major change in either fun factor, positioning, or overall sound quality. Let me clarify one thing. I chose the 32ohm, because I have already tested the 600ohm twice, the 250ohm (with the Pros), and wanted something that the E17 could EASILY handle.

---

I believe I'll be giving the HE400 a score of:

Fun: 9
Competitive: 7

The rear positional cues are about as good as the HE-4, which is slightly (just slightly better than the DT880 in that regard). Meaning, they do their job, but aren't GREAT for pure positioning. They certainly can't pick up positional cues like the Q701, AD700, DT770, 990s. However, the sound quality and fun factor are off the charts. I'd give the fun factor a perfect score, but because they're not OVERLY bassy, rather being bass abundant (not obtrusive), others may find that if bass = fun, then the fun score shouldn't be so high. So a 9 seems fitting to me.

I still need more testing (need GAMES!) to be absolutely certain.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





grymok said:


> The phones will only be used for PC gaming, what i know of
> They will be used for Battlefield 3 mainly. So mainly FPS.
> I listen to Hip Hop, Rap, Dubstep, Hardstyle, Dance, Rock, Heavy Metal and that kind of genre.
> As i have read the Q701 take time to get used to, and still it's not sure you can get used to the kind of comfort.  If i'm gonna sit with a headphone for 3-6 hours in a raw, the comfort have to be in the top.
> ...


 
  I'm not too sure how the O2/ODAC combo works but you might want to confirm with epiphany that you can use the O2 as a standalone. I haven't heard a mixamp signal reprocessed through another DAC, but it might negatively effect SQ. Considering your taste in music I can highly recommend the Beyers as they'll preform well with those genres of music. Trying them out is a great idea if the option is open to you. 
  Honestly there have been complaints on the comfort of the Qs (I could see this if you have a shaved head or are bald), but I can wear them hours on end without any discomfort... however the 990s are more comfortable, as the pads are like little pillows. 
  As for the DSS, remember that the new version is a simulated 4 channel output.... I have no idea how changes the sound. If you feel comfortable taking a gamble/going through the trouble of selling it if your not satisfied, then go for it. Its much cheaper than the mixamp, and you wont need the voice function. 
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've used the HPX with the mixamp.  I just think the positioning isn't all that great with that set.  I couldn't  tell where sounds are coming from all that well.  I doubt eliminating double amping will help any.  Personally, I would sell them and get some other headphones.
> 
> AD700 has great positioning, but no bass.  I no you said bass isn't your thing, but AD700 has tin-can bass.  You could try a Sennheiser HD5x8 or maybe Samson SR850.


 
  +1. For the most part I'd stay far far away from any "gaming company" headphones. There are exceptions, but it seems like these are few and far between. Another headphone you might want to consider is the Superlux HD688B http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-HD668B-Dynamic-Semi-Open-Headphones/dp/B003JOETX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1345529696&sr=1-2 . Apparently they have a pretty good soundstage (semi-open design) but are plagued by shrill highs. The DD should tame the highs and bring a little more bass into the mix. Heck, at $50 I'm considering buying a pair. 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Impulse purchase... the DT990/32 AND E17 are on their way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Damn MLE that's an "impulse purchase"
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




? I hate to see an "intended purchase" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I just ordered an AT-HA26D from Amazon.co.jp... bro's inlaws are coming, and I asked if it was cool to have them bring it over. Will be a few weeks before I see/hear it but it seems like i cant wait for the ODA any longer...I need to hear these things DACed/Amped. 
   
  Been playing more BF3 while waiting for D3 patches to come out. Hmmm... Q701s/Mixamp not making quite the difference I thought it would, they did save my butt once though, so at least I know its helping. Seems like the added effects like Suppression hinder positioning (as well they should) so it doesn't seem like BF3's a good test bench for comparing HPs. On another note the Labtec is LOUD, my friends told me to "take the mic out of your mouth". Apparently you don't need it nearly as close as the AX720 mic..


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





grymok said:


> I've got he SupremeFX X-Fi sound card http://www.asus.dk/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/Rampage_II_Extreme/
> So it's somewhat pretty crappy. And sometimes the sound meshes up :S. So maybe gonna get a sound card some day anyways
> I have looked alittle on the Q701, but i just thinks it's alittle to expensive, if i need and Mixamp or sound card to.
> I'm Probaly a Mixamp, but can't decide that either, which one to grab, to which Cans.
> ...


 
  If that audio card has a genuine x-fi chip I don't think you would even need the mix amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DEKIMA****A!



> *HE-400*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Another headphone you might want to consider is the Superlux HD688B http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-HD668B-Dynamic-Semi-Open-Headphones/dp/B003JOETX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1345529696&sr=1-2 . Apparently they have a pretty good soundstage (semi-open design) but are plagued by shrill highs. The DD should tame the highs and bring a little more bass into the mix. Heck, at $50 I'm considering buying a pair.


 
   
  FYI the Superlux HD668B and Samson SR850 are essentially the same headphone.  One is a clone of the other, not sure which.


----------



## genclaymore

Also the superlux HD660 is another good choice, a friend of mine got it after I suggested it to him for his first non gaming marketed headphones and fell in love with them.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol @ "... require the power of Zeus to get it to sing well."

Well, despite liking my Yamaha's silent cinema for the 30 minutes I got to use it before I had to pack it away, I bought Creative's Recon3D USB sound card. I noticed yesterday that it's on sale at J&R Music & Computer World (thru Amazon) for just $69 shipped (price ends 8/26), and after sleeping on it (and getting refunded for a speeding ticket) I took a chance that the negative reviews are anomalous. It seemed that most of the negative reviews weren't using headphones, and possibly not setting it up correctly. The one well-considered negative review said that it wasn't worth it with his Xbox, but then he states that he doesn't play FPS games, had trouble figuring out why nothing happened when he didn't have his optical wire connected, and in general panned all binaural headphone technologies. His wireless headphones may have been a factor as well.

For those that haven't heard of it, Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB is an external sound card for Windows, Mac, PS3, and Xbox 360. It basically does everything the Mixamp does for Xbox or PS3, but it also has Voice Crystalizer chat processing and can fully offload audio duties for a computer as a sound card and DAC/Amp. It's also the only native Mac OS X sound card under $1000 that I've seen.

I can't compare it side-by-side to the Mixamp for sound quality, but I intend to write a review on it this weekend. I'll also wrap up my Q701 review, and perhaps include a few notes about subjective comparisons with AD700 headphones and Silent Cinema virtual surround from my Yamaha. No promises on that last part though, I ain't got no privacy (part of why I love headphones and why I'm getting the Recon3D).

Edit: actually, the Recon3D probably won't arrive till the coming Monday, so unless it ships early I won't have a review ready this weekend. Oh, and I will put my reviews in their own threads/posts so I don't hijack this one, but I will share a link for those interested.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

So for use with a Mic the do require another amp huh? Well, will any one do? E10, e11?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing less than the E11. The E10 is usb only, so that won't work.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mrniceguy633 said:


> So for use with a Mic the do require another amp huh? Well, will any one do? E10, e11?


 
   
Will _what_ require an amp?  Which headphone are you talking about?
   
  I assume HE-400...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

double post...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He's probably referring to my HE-400 listing... I think.

In any case, the DT990/32 arrives today. Too bad I have to wait for the E17 which I bought from Micca-store, and may not be here until next week. I'm excited on being able to tone down the DT990 treble, which should make them REALLY awesome. I'm pretty excited to see just how 'inferior' they are to the 600ohm. I don't expect a big enough difference, but we'll see.

edit: Thought I hit edit. Wish I could delete posts...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He's probably referring to my HE-400 listing... I think.
> In any case, the DT990/32 arrives today. Too bad I have to wait for the E17 which I bought from Micca-store, and may not be here until next week. I'm excited on being able to tone down the DT990 treble, which should make them REALLY awesome. I'm pretty excited to see just how 'inferior' they are to the 600ohm. I don't expect a big enough difference, but we'll see.


 
   
  MLE, you shouldn't buy headphones with the intention of EQing them - if you have to EQ them they're not the right pair of headphones for you.  
   
  Seriously though, E17 + DT990 sounds like a nice combo.  Wish there was a Dolby Headphone desktop-amp-class device with some good EQ.  You could get a lot of headphones sounding good for both fun and competitive with something like that. 
   
   
*FiiO*, mass market your own "Gaming Headphone Amp".  Put the display and EQ of the E17 on the E9, and insert some Dolby Headphone.  Feel free to add some chat output/input + mixing too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> MLE, you shouldn't buy headphones with the intention of EQing them - if you have to EQ them they're not the right pair of headphones for you.
> 
> Seriously though, E17 + DT990 sounds like a nice combo.  Wish there was a Dolby Headphone desktop-amp-class device with some good EQ.  You could get a lot of headphones sounding good for both fun and competitive with something like that.




Yeah a slight bass boost is all the Q701 needs to be perfect for me.



> *FiiO*, mass market your own "Gaming Headphone Amp".  Put the display and EQ of the E17 on the E9, and insert some Dolby Headphone.  Feel free to add some chat output/input + mixing too  .




I'd buy it!


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, seriously. $300-400... I'd get it. h34r:


----------



## npf1107

HI, I just found your site and this thread and it seems to be exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
   
  I've owned two sets of Trittons axpros and have had enough. I'm no longer convinced by their durability and quality. I play COD on the PS3 and need a headset/headphone in order not to wake my family. The more competitive ones suit my needs best. I seldom listen to music or films with headphones and almost always play online multiplayer matches so the pinpointing and directional awareness of enemies is what I crave the most.
   
  I'm opting for the astro mixiamp and either the PC360s or the AD700. From what I read the K701 would be the better option, but the price is a bit of a factor with them. The reason I'm struggling making a decision is because 2 of my friends SWEAR by the Astro headsets. One has the A30 the other has the wireless A40 and he describes it as 'perfect for gaming'.
   
  The OP stated quiet clearly what he thought of A40s, but that was clearly some years ago. How do any of the above options compare too the 2012 A40s or even A50s? I do use a mic for gaming. But not all the time. So if I had to get clip on mic or something, that wouldn't bother me too much.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





npf1107 said:


> HI, I just found your site and this thread and it seems to be exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
> 
> I've owned two sets of Trittons axpros and have had enough. I'm no longer convinced by their durability and quality. I play COD on the PS3 and need a headset/headphone in order not to wake my family. The more competitive ones suit my needs best. I seldom listen to music or films with headphones and almost always play online multiplayer matches so the pinpointing and directional awareness of enemies is what I crave the most.
> 
> ...


 
  There's a new Sony Wireless headset coming out in October:
   
http://www.amazon.com/wireless-stereo-headset-PlayStation-3-63089006306200/dp/B0087OZ5FG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345642010&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+pulse
   
  I'm think of snatching up two pairs for me and my brother. For $150, how bad could they be?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





npf1107 said:


> HI, I just found your site and this thread and it seems to be exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
> 
> I've owned two sets of Trittons axpros and have had enough. I'm no longer convinced by their durability and quality. I play COD on the PS3 and need a headset/headphone in order not to wake my family. The more competitive ones suit my needs best. I seldom listen to music or films with headphones and almost always play online multiplayer matches so the pinpointing and directional awareness of enemies is what I crave the most.
> 
> ...


 
  With respect, maybe your 2 friends haven't heard any of the headphones discussed here. So, they may swear by the Astro headsets--but their points of comparison might be lower.
   
  Also worth remembering: a big part of what makes Astro systems so good for gaming is the MixAmp. The basic point made by MLE (and most everyone in this thread) is that the MixAmp takes any regular headphone and turns it into a virtual surround sound machine; if the Astro headsets themselves are mediocre, then think how much better the MixAmp could do better headphones/headsets?
   
  Where did you read the K701 is "the better option"? Have you read about the *Q*701?
   
  One last thing: you're gaming on PS3, and I'm unfamiliar with the chat functionality on it. Do some reading up on that before jumping into anything mmkay? Don't want awesome headphones but no mic option.


----------



## npf1107

> With respect, maybe your 2 friends haven't heard any of the headphones discussed here. So, they may swear by the Astro headsets--but their points of comparison might be lower.


 
  I'm positive they haven't heard any of the headphones here let alone tried them.
   


> > Where did you read the K701 is "the better option"? Have you read about the *Q*701?


 
  In the original post it states that the K701 is probably the better option for competitive gaming, after re-reading I see your point about the Q701 as being generally the better set overall. For some reason they seem to be really expensive here. $369 from Amazon.de and only $249 from Amazon.com. Don't they dome from Austria? I live in Germany, go figure.
   
  I'll have to check on the clip on mic for the PS3, I don't think it should be a problem if I get a USB mic as that's basically how the Trittons are setup. But I'll investigate that anyway.
   
  If I, LIS am mostly playing FPS on the PS3. Then maybe the PC360's would be my best bet?


----------



## Evshrug

eric_c said:


> With respect, maybe your 2 friends haven't heard any of the headphones discussed here. So, they may swear by the Astro headsets--but their points of comparison might be lower.
> 
> Also worth remembering: a big part of what makes Astro systems so good for gaming is the MixAmp. The basic point made by MLE (and most everyone in this thread) is that the MixAmp takes any regular headphone and turns it into a virtual surround sound machine; if the Astro headsets themselves are mediocre, then think how much better the MixAmp could do better headphones/headsets?
> 
> ...




Yeah, the Skullcandy/Astro A30/A40/A50 headphones may be better than most $60 closed headphones, but certainly Mad Lust Envy has a broader experience than the two friends.

Also I understand where it says K701 is the strongest competitive headphone... MLE said it on the first post! It also has the highest competitive score on the round-up, because it has insane detail and the bass is so tightly controlled and non-dominant that footsteps and positional cues are easy to pick up amongst the rest of the noise, and because the soundscape is so wide and directional cues are distinct. Now, if I'd rather have the Q701 because I love me some music & movies too, but it's a personal preference.

It's kind of a shame MLE doesn't feel like testing headphones that would be a downgrade (though he might do a review if someone sent it to him for free?), but I suspect that the other AKG's further down their lineup would still be strong contenders. I would like to hear the AKG K242 and K272 headphones, but I have no justification to own them alongside my other headphones. I also feel good that I'll be able to sell my AD700's easily since the Q701s took their place, but I intend to keep them until I can do a comparison write-up. I'll probably sell them with a "gaming package" of the adapters and E5 amp I used to connect the AD700 with my Xbox. Good use for my spare mic (I have 4 now) too.


----------



## Evshrug

Argh, I started typing my reply to the post before this during a break at work, so I missed this post!


npf1107 said:


> I'm positive they haven't heard any of the headphones here let alone tried them.
> 
> In the original post it states that the K701 is probably the better option for competitive gaming, after re-reading I see your point about the Q701 as being generally the better set overall. For some reason they seem to be really expensive here. $369 from Amazon.de and only $249 from Amazon.com. Don't they come from Austria? I live in Germany, go figure.
> 
> ...




Even if you get the PC360, you'd still need the USB mic adapter. Does the Mixamp come with one? I know Astro makes one, and once you have a Mixamp (or similar surround processor) fully hooked up, you can plug your mic or headset into the Mixamp.

I have no idea why they cost more in Europe, maybe it's a tax thing? Because the US $ isn't worth as much as the € right now, I believe. Or maybe they sell more in the US, so the economy of scale helps keep the price down.

Good luck, and sorry about your wallet


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just got my DT990/32 in...

All I can say is that this is going to be VERY interesting...

First impression: Holy hell...I'm in love. First... holding it in my hands.... it feels like I'm holding a piece of paper next to the HE-400. What a difference in weight. The DT990 LOOKS like it should be heavy, yet... it's stupid light. I forgot how light they were. The velours.... MAN, the velours. Still the best pads I haver ever felt on my head. SOOOO soft.

The bass... oh yeah... That's the bass I remember. Fun, doesn't give me headaches, and decays quickly. It might linger just a hair bit longer than the 600ohm, but it's faster, and snappier than the HE-400. It doesn't have the weight and natural fullness of the HE-400's bass, but it's definitely more emphasized relative to the mids and treble. I still can't believe how good the quality and quality the bass is for an open can. Ironically, I feel the HE400 has more bass presence overall, but the impact definitely goes to the DT990.

The mids are pushed back, just like they are on all DT990s. They still sound clear, and due to the quickness of the bass, it's not muffled by it. Those looking for V-shaped cans that won't trample over the mids like typical basshead cans, look here.

The treble. Here's the top concern on DT990s, especially non-600ohm ones. Let me report you that, just as I suspected... the concerns are unwarranted. The treble to ME actually sounds less edgy than the 600ohm. Might be because my NFB5 loves low impedance cans (pushing around 3 watts at 32ohm). They are definitely still edgy, and prominent, but to me, it sounds more like the DT880's treble, and less than the 990's. I'm listening right now to the usual suspect files, and moderately loud. The treble hasn't bothered me one time, which I can't say for the 600ohm. I believe it's due to the fuller, lingering bass in addition to the treble not being as spiky as I remember of the other ones. Make no mistake, the treble is still prominent, but less grating to me.

The clarity and body isn't up to the HE-400 (it sure as hell better not be), but for the $197 I spent for a Like New used one... this one is... simply amazing.

Hold on to your hats, but this may just be the one I recommend for fun in the $200 range.

This is my FOURTH DT990, so I'm well acquainted with their sound, and I'm here to tell you that the difference between the 32ohm and 600ohm isn't large. In fact, I'd say the 32ohm is better behaved from what I am hearing, IMHO. The 600ohm is slightly clearer, for sure, but it's not a night and day difference. That clarity to me is caused by the faster bass, and a stronger perceived treble response.

Oh yes, as I suspected, the 32ohm DT990 is still hard to drive. I have to set my NFB5 to high gain, though it requires less on the knob than the HE400.

Oh yes, I'm saddened that my DT990 doesn't have the blue alluring that comes with brand new 32ohm DT990s. I wanted BLUE! Blue HE400, Blue DT990s. 

The plug still says 32ohm, as does the box.

I'm actually quite annoyed by the fact that people are dismissing the 32 and 250ohm because the 600ohm is "better". Happy to report that these people with less than top tier amping would've been happier with the 32ohm. Easily. You get 95% the same performance, easier amping requirements, and a less polarizing sound. The soundstage isn't as huge as the 600ohm, but still quite big. Bigger, and with better depth.

The little I've heard so far, I must say I prefer the DT990/32 than the Pro 900. The Pro 900s is quite a bit stronger in bass, S-logic is iffy, and the soundstage is a LOT smaller.

Oh yes, the HE400 leaks in/out quite a bit more than the 990s.


----------



## NamelessPFG

My, my. People don't trust my Stax Lambda recommendations because Mad Lust Envy hasn't reviewed them, as I just found out.
   
  I need to do something about this, but I really don't want to be without my only good headphones for that long. Then there's the whole "SRD-7/SB needs a speaker amp/receiver and I don't have a proper direct-drive amp" issue...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, people need to understand that my experience is QUITE limited. Sure, I may have reviewed all these headphones here, but that's NOTHING compared to all the headphones that are out there that others here have used, and are potentially amazing even by my standards.

You absolutely can't go off what just one person has said. People dismiss the 32ohm and 250ohm DT990, because Zombie has stated on his thread that the 600ohm is better. Honestly, to me, it's not better, so much as it's slightly more revealing, harder to amp, and more picky with amps. Had I know the 32ohm was this good, I wouldn't have jumped to the 600ohm. They are seriously about 95% the same, with just a very slight loss of clarity, warmer tonal balance (IMHO), and less grating treble. I haven't used them for gaming yet though, but they honestly sound too close to think they'd be a lesser headphone. They are closer to one another than the old K701 is to the Q701.


----------



## Eric_C

Ok MLE, so DT990 (32) vs Q701: who wins?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I've only been using the DT990 with my NFB5 for music and vids so far, and I can tell that it's sound signature is in my preference over the Q701.

The DT990/32 is bassy, and sparkly. It's the definition of fun headphone, without being congested or overly bassy.

The Q701 is more comparable to the DT880, in that it's well balanced, though not necessarily gonna make you jump out of your seat with excitement the same way the DT990 would.

The DT990/32 sounds basically about the same as the DT990/600 with a slight trade off in treble clarity, which may actually be better for most of us. That means, that it should have the same exact scores as the DT990/600, meaning it's better in fun factor vs the Q701, but not as good in competitive.

I wouldn't say one is better than the other. The choice depends on what you prefer more, fun, or balance. I find the 990s to be the best solution for both in their price range (I've had this opinion since owning the first DT990), but the treble was always a drawback. Now... it may not be as much of a drawback with the 32ohm. I'll keep you guys updated.

Oh yes, to add, with the release of the E17 and it's treble controls... the 32ohm would be a safer gaming choice as the E17 should power it well, as well as being able to reduce treble IF it's an issue for you.

The Q701's only negative for me is that it could use a little more bass. Not sure how well the E17 powers it, but if the DT990 needs just a treble reduction, and the Q701 just needs a bass boost, I'd put the Q701 on top overall, due to having a larger soundstage, better mids, and better positioning. Problem is, the Q701 wouldn't be driven perfectly well out of just the E17, while the DT990 should be.


----------



## raband

Absolutely love this thread - definitely helped me narrow down and decide on my cans (HD598's) and mixamp purchase and am wrapped with the decision 
   
  Only thing that could have helped with the narrowing down would have been a rough price range beside each of the models - sorry if it's already been discussed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The price range is hard to calculate, because the headphones fluctuate in price by quite a bit. The HD598, I bought was $175.. now they're going for almost $250. The DT990/32 NEW right now is $375! I surely would prefer to save up a little more for the HE400 if you were gonna spend that much.


----------



## Eric_C

Ok, this should help somewhat. I've found links for every headphone in MLE's original post (except D7000 and KSC35) on CamelCamelCamel, which tracks historical prices on Amazon USA.
   
  This is only a guide and you may find better prices at your local dealers, especially if you're in a different part of the world.
   
Competitive:

K701
Q701 _(link for white version)_
HD598
PC360
AD700
Pro 2900
DT990 (600ohm) Premium model
D7000



Fun:

D7000
DT990 (600ohm) Premium model
Pro 900
HE-400
DT990 Pro Model
HE-4
Creative Aurvana Live
DT770 Pro 80
DT880 _(link for 250 ohm Premium)_
Pro 2900


All-rounders (for both uses):

D7000
HE-400
Q701 _(link for white version)_
DT990 (600ohm) Premium model
HE-4
Pro 900
Pro 2900
DT880 _(link for 250 ohm Premium)_
PC360
Creative Aurvana Live
KSC35
KSC75


----------



## raband

MLE: Understand totally. - especially given that you are rating them on their actual performance rather than value From the testing side it should be irrelevant to a point as well - for someone using the guide for info to purchase it's handy to know what price brackets the different phones are in (without having to open multiple pages and search and cross reference)
   
  Eric_C: That's awesome - I wish I knew about that tracking site. Am definitely bookmarking that one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll have to add something like a price range for the headphones, because, while I rate them based on their own merits relative to their price, you can't expect a 7 in competitive (KSC75), to compete with a 7 in a (HE400).


----------



## xZerox

You should try out the soundmagic hp100s reviews say they have a large sound stage for a closed headphone and they have very little bass. Also, if people are going to be going to offline events/tournaments they probably won't want an open headset. I think that would be good to point out in your guide also.


----------



## Carrek

I asked on another thread already, but I think since this is a gaming thread, it'll be more clarifying.
   
  So, I wanted to buy a HD558. But when I was about to buy it, I saw a DT990 Pro (250 Ohms version) for 200 dollars on Amazon, only about 10 dollars expensiver than the HD558.
   
  Mad Lust Envy doesn't cover the HD558, but he does cover the HD598. They are quite similar, aren't they? Or the HD598 is by far superior in terms of gaming?
   
  I got this doubt after I read this thread. The guy praises the DT880. And since the DT990 are superior... well. That made me think.
   
  But according to this guide, the HD598 are superior than the DT990 PRO. Basically, what I want to know is: Are the HD558 that "worse" compared to the HD598 that it can indeed be worse than the DT990 for gaming aspects?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to remember I rate them by how they fare competitively, and how they fare when you're just playing for fun. Fun headphones tend to have a more lively sound signature, with emphasized bass for immersion, etc. The HD598 is stellar for competitive, but I'm not fond of it for fun gaming. The DT990 Pros are a lot more lively, and have really great positioning themselves, but they're a bit too bassy for competitive use. The Premium DT990s are considerably better behaved in the bass section. I got my 32ohm like new off Amazon for less than $200. I'd say that's better than a new 990 Pro, but not everyone can get them at that price.

The HD558 should be close to the HD598 in soundstage and positioning. They probably just lack the 598's clarity. I hear that modding them makes them better. I wouldn't count the HD558 out, they just may not be as ready to please as the 598.


----------



## PanicoNFL

Using a FiiO E10, don't minding for isolation or sound leakage, wanting a Fun sound, large soundstage with precision for 3D sounds, what's better:

 DT990 Pro 250
 DT770 Pro 80
 DT770 Pro 250

 thanks


----------



## Carrek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You have to remember I rate them by how they fare competitively, and how they fare when you're just playing for fun. Fun headphones tend to have a more lively sound signature, with emphasized bass for immersion, etc. The HD598 is stellar for competitive, but I'm not fond of it for fun gaming. The DT990 Pros are a lot more lively, and have really great positioning themselves, but they're a bit too bassy for competitive use. The Premium DT990s are considerably better behaved in the bass section. I got my 32ohm like new off Amazon for less than $200. I'd say that's better than a new 990 Pro, but not everyone can get them at that price.
> The HD558 should be close to the HD598 in soundstage and positioning. They probably just lack the 598's clarity. I hear that modding them makes them better. I wouldn't count the HD558 out, they just may not be as ready to please as the 598.


 
  Thank you very much, Mad Lust. 
   
  I forgot to mention I would use a Titanium HD with those cans. No amp or DAC, just the card.
   
  I don't have a clan, I don't play on tournaments, or anything. But I want to be the best. That's why I turned my eyes into the competitive headphones.
  And well, indeed the 250 Ohms are currently way cheaper than the 32 Ohms, so the PRO one would be my choice.
   
  According to what you said, the HD558 would be my choice for competitive gaming then. AFAIK, clarity isn't so important as soundstage and positioning, so it shouldn't be a problem. But well, I like music. For that, bass would be more than welcome since heavy metal sounds better with a lower punch. But that ain't good for games.
   
  Would this extra bass make me, let's say, outperformed by an enemy using a HD598 for instance?
  The fact that I don't play on national/world tournaments balances the fact that I want to be the absolute best, since I will not ever reach that grade. That would make the DT990 the choice, since it's fun, and better for other things besides gaming. But again... I fear my performance to be potentially worse than if I was using a HD558. That's actually the only thing keeping me from buying the DT990.
   
  Am I storming a teacup?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

carrek said:


> Thank you very much, Mad Lust.
> 
> I forgot to mention I would use a Titanium HD with those cans. No amp or DAC, just the card.




I'm not sure if the internal amp on the Titanium HD is powerful (like the Essence STX which has an amp similar to the E9). In any case, the Sennheisers shouldn't have a problem with it. The Beyers MIGHT. I can't say, as I know very little about soundcards. Try the Nameless PC gaming thread, to see if your soundcard is powerful enough for something like the 250ohm Beyers.



> I don't have a clan, I don't play on tournaments, or anything. But I want to be the best. That's why I turned my eyes into the competitive headphones.
> And well, indeed the 250 Ohms are currently way cheaper than the 32 Ohms, so the PRO one would be my choice.




By competitive, I don't mean tourneys, clan matches, or whatever. I don't do any of that either. I mean just being capable IF you were that hardcore a gamer. I play competitively ALONE, lol. Just trying to better myself. I could care less about everyone else.



> According to what you said, the HD558 would be my choice for competitive gaming then. AFAIK, clarity isn't so important as soundstage and positioning, so it shouldn't be a problem. But well, I like music. For that, bass would be more than welcome since heavy metal sounds better with a lower punch. But that ain't good for games.




I hear the HD558 has more bass than the HD598, so that may be better suited.





> Would this extra bass make me, let's say, outperformed by an enemy using a HD598 for instance?




No. Any decent headphone will be fine vs other decent headphones. Just that it might be harder to focus on minute details with bassy cans over the ones that aren't as bassy. The DT990 Pros will still pick up the same sounds, just that the bass may/may not distract you.



> The fact that I don't play on national/world tournaments balances the fact that I want to be the absolute best, since I will not ever reach that grade. That would make the DT990 the choice, since it's fun, and better for other things besides gaming. But again... I fear my performance to be potentially worse than if I was using a HD558. That's actually the only thing keeping me from buying the DT990.
> 
> Am I storming a teacup? :etysmile:




You're overthinking it. The DT990s are well rounded for all purposes. I'd be more concerned about the soundcard possibly not having enough power to make the DT990s sing. Also, I found the 990 Pros WAY too bassy for my taste. This seems to be a problem only I have, and everyone else who has used them here has been fine with them. I'm sensitive to certain ranges in the mid bass, which is why it's probably worse for me than it may be for you.


----------



## Carrek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm not sure if the internal amp on the Titanium HD is powerful (like the Essence STX which has an amp similar to the E9). In any case, the Sennheisers shouldn't have a problem with it. The Beyers MIGHT. I can't say, as I know very little about soundcards. Try the Nameless PC gaming thread, to see if your soundcard is powerful enough for something like the 250ohm Beyers.





> By competitive, I don't mean tourneys, clan matches, or whatever. I don't do any of that either. I mean just being capable IF you were that hardcore a gamer. I play competitively ALONE, lol. Just trying to better myself. I could care less about everyone else.





> I hear the HD558 has more bass than the HD598, so that may be better suited.





> No. Any decent headphone will be fine vs other decent headphones. Just that it might be harder to focus on minute details with bassy cans over the ones that aren't as bassy. The DT990 Pros will still pick up the same sounds, just that the bass may/may not distract you.





> You're overthinking it. The DT990s are well rounded for all purposes. I'd be more concerned about the soundcard possibly not having enough power to make the DT990s sing. Also, I found the 990 Pros WAY too bassy for my taste. This seems to be a problem only I have, and everyone else who has used them here has been fine with them. I'm sensitive to certain ranges in the mid bass, which is why it's probably worse for me than it may be for you.


 
   
  I'll look into Titanium HD's amp. I really hope it's enough.
   
  And well, it seems your competitiveness is the same as mine. That makes things easier.
  From what you said, the DT990 would be a no-brainer then. Would be just as good as other more competitive cans with just a little more bass. That's exactly what I was looking for in a headphone. I'll just see to the card's power.
  Since being distracted is very very subjective, it'll be a hit or miss. I'll just find out when I try those. Though since it'll be my first good headphone, I can very well adapt to them, can't I? Minimizing this issue. Also, if the bass doesn't overlap(forgot the term) other frequency ranges, that's fine to me.
  And I can't say I am sensitive to certain ranges, because I have never had any good cans. So I can't say anything. But I like bass in music, for instance. Can't be sure what it'll be in games.
  And yes, I overthink everything. Sorry for that.
  But... in the end, from what you said, the DT990 may be my choice. I'll just look into some technical details to make sure.
   
  Again, thank you very much. You were most helpful.


----------



## Evshrug

Eric_C, nice informative post!

As far as the Q's being bass light, there are far more options for boosting bass than there are for treble control. I've been contemplating the E11 because of its low-ohm output and hight current (but not 3 Watts! DAAAYum MLE!), and it has two levels of bass boost. I find it interesting that the fiio e6 is rated above the amp section of the E7 by people who listen to both.

Also, I bought a 3 pack of Neewer lapel mics for $5 shipped, they arrived in like a week and my friends all said they could hear me great even with it clipped to my shirt. The guys who play with me often said I sounded clear and loud enough, but one of the guys mentioned that he almost didn't recognize my voice because I sounded so different, until I laughed. Im gonna send one to my buddy, and keep a spare. So consider that an Amazon option that ships a heck of a lot faster!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DJOIHE/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll have to add something like a price range for the headphones, because, while I rate them based on their own merits relative to their price, you can't expect a 7 in competitive (KSC75), to compete with a 7 in a (HE400).


 
   
  Will this do?
   
   

     Competitive? Fun? All-rounder? <100 KSC 35     X KSC 75     X Creative Aurvana Live   X X AD700 X     200-250 DT990 Pro   X   DT770   X   PC360 X   X HD598 X     250-300 Q701 X   X K701 X     DT880   X X 300-400 Pro 900   X X DT990 Premium X X X HE-400   X X HE-4   X X Pro 2900 X X X D7000 X X X


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, that looks great. Next time I'm on my comp I'll see where to situate that, though I also need to put the price range on the individual listtings.


----------



## chicolom

You can always use spoiler tags do, If you want to collapse a big list and make it look cleaner.  Like that post with all the camelcamelcamel links, it could all be grouped under an expandable spoiler tag.


----------



## raband

Or colour code the ones in the list you have - 
   
Competitive:

K701
Q701
HD598
PC360
AD700
Pro 2900
DT990 (600ohm) Premium model
D7000
   
>$100
>$100-250
>$250-300
>$300-400
>$400


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a bit too much for my eyes, lol.


----------



## Eric_C

Nah, I'm not in favour of that approach. Forces the reader's eyes to dart up and down to check which colour corresponds to what. I tried to format the table in a way that would match a budget-centric thoughtflow: price range, headphones in increasing order of price (further down = more expensive, even within price ranges), then the competitive/fun/all-rounder question.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm considering doing it by price range. I currently have them in the company's name (alpha list), which now that I think about it doesn't make much sense.


----------



## raband

Yep - looking at it now it does hurt a bit too much 
   
  edit: maybe if I used <blink>  </blink> it would have looked better


----------



## Fegefeuer

carrek said:


> I'll look into Titanium HD's amp. I really hope it's enough.
> 
> And well, it seems your competitiveness is the same as mine. That makes things easier.
> From what you said, the DT990 would be a no-brainer then. Would be just as good as other more competitive cans with just a little more bass. That's exactly what I was looking for in a headphone. I'll just see to the card's power.
> ...


 
   
  I had the Titanium HD and the STX both installed in the same rig. I don't consider the THD to have enough power/amping for the DT990. I had the 600 Edition though.
   
  The DT990 itself is a great choice for gaming, I would put it on the 1st place for immersive gaming. The T90 is the HD version. Can't recommend though unless you watch movies as well since most multiplatform games have their audio samples sized for the Xbox and its old DVD format, and all the others have to suffer for it.


----------



## genclaymore

The Titanium HD do not have a headphone amp I used to have one my self, creative need to fix their info on it. To remove that line form it. WIth the Titanium HD you will need to get a external amp if you have headphones that need power that card it self cant provoid. In this case that DT990 if its 250ohm or the 600ohm you would need to get one to get the most out of those headphones with the Titanium HD.


----------



## Carrek

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I had the Titanium HD and the STX both installed in the same rig. I don't consider the THD to have enough power/amping for the DT990. I had the 600 Edition though.
> 
> The DT990 itself is a great choice for gaming, I would put it on the 1st place for immersive gaming. The T90 is the HD version. Can't recommend though unless you watch movies as well since most multiplatform games have their audio samples sized for the Xbox and its old DVD format, and all the others have to suffer for it.


 
  I don't watch a lot of movies actually, it's mostly gaming and a bit of music. Also, I'll only use it on the PC
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The Titanium HD do not have a headphone amp I used to have one my self, creative need to fix their info on it. To remove that line form it. WIth the Titanium HD you will need to get a external amp if you have headphones that need power that card it self cant provoid. In this case that DT990 if its 250ohm or the 600ohm you would need to get one to get the most out of those headphones with the Titanium HD.


 
  Really? Well, that'll make me reconsider things. If I have to buy an external amp it'll be way expensiver than the HD558 alone. Thank you for the info.


----------



## rabinzero

OK GUYS...convince me to do it.  Would you?  I found someone local selling a Harman Kardon AVR 335 in LIKE NEW condition for $200.  I'm seriously considering buying this unit.  It has Dolby Headphone AND I can hookup speakers to it and get some use out of it without being limited to headphones when I don't need it.  I'm liking this unit and I like HK and JBL products!


----------



## Evshrug

rabinzero said:


> OK GUYS...convince me to do it.  Would you?  I found someone local selling a Harman Kardon AVR 335 in LIKE NEW condition for $200.  I'm seriously considering buying this unit.  It has Dolby Headphone AND I can hookup speakers to it and get some use out of it without being limited to headphones when I don't need it.  I'm liking this unit and I like HK and JBL products!



Well, it's a decent Receiver... From 7 or 8 years ago. No HDMI, so a playstation or Xbox would have to be hooked up to it with composite (Red Blue Green) cables and an optical cable, and your TV has to accept composite too (no digital video connection or pass through conversion like found on Denons two years ago). Also looks large in size, sometimes the size of these components ends up mattering more than you expect, so measure your cabinet and make sure it has GREAT airflow for venting the heat.

It can work, but I think the $200 price is about average for the depreciation, and you can find many other deals around the same price. Hooking up speakers and headphones to multiple inputs and outputting video is an integrated amp, if you want to do more research (receiver name comes from FM radio receiver). It will do what you hope it does, but it's not anything special by today's standards for features or price.

Basically, I'm saying I had a "chance" to buy a receiver for $200, but I had to decide on the spot. I did, and I made it work, but I later realized that I can't afford a full surround sound setup with decent speakers yet, and I would've been better off getting a stereo integrated amp for now with a great headphone amp, and saved money for a really nice receiver when I get the income and space needed for a "proper" surround sound setup that wouldn't leave me disappointed. And believe me, if you are used to nice headphones, you are going to find a lot lacking in home-theater-in-a-box and entry-level speaker systems. I actually find it surprising how fast mainstream receivers depreciate in value.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





raband said:


> Absolutely love this thread - definitely helped me narrow down and decide on my cans (HD598's) and mixamp purchase and am wrapped with the decision
> 
> Only thing that could have helped with the narrowing down would have been a rough price range beside each of the models - sorry if it's already been discussed.


 
   
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I had the Titanium HD and the STX both installed in the same rig. I don't consider the THD to have enough power/amping for the DT990. I had the 600 Edition though.
> 
> The DT990 itself is a great choice for gaming, I would put it on the 1st place for immersive gaming. The T90 is the HD version. Can't recommend though unless you watch movies as well since most multiplatform games have their audio samples sized for the Xbox and its old DVD format, and all the others have to suffer for it.


 
   
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The Titanium HD do not have a headphone amp I used to have one my self, creative need to fix their info on it. To remove that line form it. WIth the Titanium HD you will need to get a external amp if you have headphones that need power that card it self cant provoid. In this case that DT990 if its 250ohm or the 600ohm you would need to get one to get the most out of those headphones with the Titanium HD.


 
   
  Quote: 





carrek said:


> I don't watch a lot of movies actually, it's mostly gaming and a bit of music. Also, I'll only use it on the PC
> Really? Well, that'll make me reconsider things. If I have to buy an external amp it'll be way expensiver than the HD558 alone. Thank you for the info.


 
  I have cutted it down to the DT990 cans to, but between the PRO 250 ohm and the Premium ones.
  As i can read in the posts above i'm gonna need a sound card, but not sure which. I'm not sure which card i should pickup. And even not sure if i shall pick up a sound card or the Astro Mixamp:S
  If it gonna be the Sound card, does it need to be the Essence ones or the Xonor, and which one? :S.
  It's gonna be used for BF3 and the surround 3d positioning.
   
  And again, thanks for the help and this great thread!!


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, it's a decent Receiver... From 7 or 8 years ago. No HDMI, so a playstation or Xbox would have to be hooked up to it with composite (Red Blue Green) cables and an optical cable, and your TV has to accept composite too (no digital video connection or pass through conversion like found on Denons two years ago). Also looks large in size, sometimes the size of these components ends up mattering more than you expect, so measure your cabinet and make sure it has GREAT airflow for venting the heat.
> It can work, but I think the $200 price is about average for the depreciation, and you can find many other deals around the same price. Hooking up speakers and headphones to multiple inputs and outputting video is an integrated amp, if you want to do more research (receiver name comes from FM radio receiver). It will do what you hope it does, but it's not anything special by today's standards for features or price.
> Basically, I'm saying I had a "chance" to buy a receiver for $200, but I had to decide on the spot. I did, and I made it work, but I later realized that I can't afford a full surround sound setup with decent speakers yet, and I would've been better off getting a stereo integrated amp for now with a great headphone amp, and saved money for a really nice receiver when I get the income and space needed for a "proper" surround sound setup that wouldn't leave me disappointed. And believe me, if you are used to nice headphones, you are going to find a lot lacking in home-theater-in-a-box and entry-level speaker systems. I actually find it surprising how fast mainstream receivers depreciate in value.


 
   
  Your response is really good.  Thankfully, this unit won't be for my main home theater.  I  have one in my living room already that's majorly geared out.  This will be for my office using smaller speakers and basically only used for music and gaming.  With that said, I will be plugging in the HDMI cables from my console directly to the TV and using the optical cables going to the receiver.  I wanted the same benefit of having Dolby Headphone, but when I'm not using phones I can use speakers when I want and still get great sound.


----------



## Evshrug

rabinzero said:


> Your response is really good.  Thankfully, this unit won't be for my main home theater.  I  have one in my living room already that's majorly geared out.  This will be for my office using smaller speakers and basically only used for music and gaming.  With that said, I will be plugging in the HDMI cables from my console directly to the TV and using the optical cables going to the receiver.  I wanted the same benefit of having Dolby Headphone, but when I'm not using phones I can use speakers when I want and still get great sound.



Well hey, if you've figured it out, more power to ya!
I wish I could play games in my office.


----------



## dcm1602

So I have a pair of HD 598's that ive been using for about a year, and I have to say im a little underwhelmed with them. I kind of expected more.
   
  My dad wanted me to get him a pair, so im thinking about giving him mine, and getting something new.
   
  I use em for console/pc/movies all via an astro mixamp.
   
  Any recomendations for the 200-300 price range ?
   
  Im looking for something thats gonna OOO me more than anything. And I pretty much only play multiplayer, so something that takes that into consideration as well.
   
  Of course im always willing to change around what im looking for if i can find an AWESOME deal 
   
  Im actually checking out the DT-990 Premium 600ohms, but dunno if thats my best bet.
   
  And if my astro mixamp is suffiicient to drive them 
   
  Im always willing to listen to wiser minds


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you have an external amp, the DT990 (any of them) won't be powered sufficiently. You can get a small portable amp for the DT990 32ohm though, which sound 95% as good as thee 600ohm. If you play multiplayer, unless you want more bass, I doubt anything will wow you next to the HD598, though I find the Q701 to be an improvement on everything that makes the 598 good, though with less midrange.


----------



## dcm1602

Well I guess my biggest issue with the HD 598s was they kind of lack immersion.
   
  I mean im willing to sacrafice some positional accuracy, so that when im playing something its more of a  WOW THAT SOUNDS AWESOME .
   
Q701s are basically the exact same price as the HD 598, so in your opinion you think thats my best bet ? 
   
And would be more than fine with my astro mixamp ?
   
   
(I could get a solid deal on K550s, though I notice you dont have them in here, so dunno if you know anything about them)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're using a mic, I personally feel the Q701 needs an amp, though without a mic they sound good off the Mixamp alone.

The DT990 is one of the most immersive I've used.


----------



## dcm1602

FiiO e6 more than sufficent ? for Q701 + mixamp + mic ? 
   
Or should I spend the extra money (only like 20-25$) to get the E11


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> If you're using a mic, I personally feel the Q701 needs an amp, though without a mic they sound good off the Mixamp alone.
> The DT990 is one of the most immersive I've used.




Just as an FYI, I have my chat audio play through my "speakers" (headphones), and my mic is plugged straight into my controller (with a $2 plug adapter). I don't know if the Mixamp let's your own Voice chat echo in your ears, but besides that I'm happy with my setup. When I want more chat volume, I turn up my amp and turn down the game sound via the options or settings menu. That way, you don't sacrifice any amp juice on the chat volume, and really you only have to set it once for each game. It's been working really well.


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Just as an FYI, I have my chat audio play through my "speakers" (headphones), and my mic is plugged straight into my controller (with a $2 plug adapter). I don't know if the Mixamp let's your own Voice chat echo in your ears, but besides that I'm happy with my setup. When I want more chat volume, I turn up my amp and turn down the game sound via the options or settings menu. That way, you don't sacrifice any amp juice on the chat volume, and really you only have to set it once for each game. It's been working really well.


 
  Also curious what you think of your Q701s, and how they compared to whatever you previously had


----------



## dcm1602

Alright absolute last question 
   
  Im down to one of two setups
   
  Q701 + E11 + Astro Mixamp
   
  DT 990 PRO 250OHM + E11 + Astro Mixamp
   
  Q701s come out to about 50-70$ 
   
  Anything to help me choose greatly appreciated thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 is a lot more immersive. I feel the Q701 will be too much like the HD598 to wow you.

The E11 is worth it over the E5/E6 which are very weak amps, certainly not for these fullsize headphones.


----------



## dcm1602

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 is a lot more immersive. I feel the Q701 will be too much like the HD598 to wow you.
> The E11 is worth it over the E5/E6 which are very weak amps, certainly not for these fullsize headphones.


 
  Thanks much !


----------



## Sniping

I'm totally into my pair of Tritton AX Pro's for console gaming solely for footsteps. After two years of owning them, the fake leather pads have hardened and they don't feel comfortable at all, and they've cracked really bad, but I just can't let go of how clearly I'm hearing everyone. I have the "sub" control turned down all the way, and it really helps. I've done gaming on other headsets and I just can't hear everything as clear as I can with the Pro's. As for the sound quality, it's terrible. If I were to rate it, I would give it 10/10 on competitive, even though it falls short in everything else, probably getting a 1/10 from me. If you have a chance, could you try revisiting it? I use them on my PS3, and I've set everything to the blue color except for "Sub", which is on the lowest green setting.


----------



## raband

The Tritton AX Pro's were a total failure for me in all aspects. For some reason they seem to be a real hit or miss affair, depending on the individual - some they work brilliantly for while others they fail miserably.
   
  I was so pumped when they arrived and I gave them every chance and setting adjustment etc to perform, but even with the biggest placebo effect possible in me wanting/thinking they'd be good the were worse for everything than my crappy inbuilt laptop speakers.
   
  I guess with the multiple speakers in each can the effect is slightly different for everyone with it working fine for most, brilliant for some and not good for a few. Unfortunately I was one of the few it doesn't work with.
   
  Turned me off headphone gaming as an option for years, until, when looking for headphones for music I came across this thread and it made me to decide to revisit the option. Best thing I ever did - opened a whole new world up and finally gave me what the Trittons had promised, but with a stereo headphone and a mixamp.
   
  To this day the Trittons sit on a shelf in the corner staring at me with an evil presence - too crap to use, too expensive to throw away and I couldn't, in good faith, sell them to anyone, knowing how bad they were.
   
  I should probably set them up for mates to try, and if I find one who likes them pass them on to them.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dcm1602 said:


> Alright absolute last question
> 
> Im down to one of two setups
> 
> ...


 
   
  Both the DT990 and Q701 are more immersive than the Sennheisers.  I personally prefer the Q701 to the DT990, and you can read why here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review
   
  The DT990 is just sort of an extreme "flavor" (V-shaped, lots of treble), so just make sure that's what you want before you go for it.  I actually find the Q701 more immersive, as it sounds less exaggerated and more realistic, while still having some fun bass and body like the DT990.  DT990 is sort of like watching a TV with the sharpness and color turned all the way up like they have them in the store (torch mode).
   
   
  EDIT: I see you said the DT990 *PRO*.  Haven't heard that, but MLE described the differences on the first page already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990/32 is better behaved in the treble range. Seriously, I think you'd like it, Chico.

As for the Ax Pros, I'd rather shoot myself on the foot. They're horrible. If you think they're good, try the K701 with the Mixamp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990/32 is better behaved in the treble range. Seriously, I think you'd like it, Chico.
> As for the Ax Pros, I'd rather shoot myself on the foot. They're horrible. If you think they're good, try the K701 with the Mixamp.


 
   
  That's good to hear, although zombie_x might disagree with you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   _-"__The 600Ohm model is the definitive version of the DT990 and has the smoothest treble of the DT990 line"_


----------



## Evshrug

dcm1602 said:


> Also curious what you think of your Q701s, and how they compared to whatever you previously had




Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I was so tired this afternoon I took a nap.
If you're still reading this thread, I do love the Q701s absolutely, but I'm not sure we have the same tastes. I haven't heard any Sennheisers above the PX100, although the HD 202s, believe it or not, were the headphones that got me to thinking about replacing my AD700, which was my main headphone before. I love detail and soundstage in my audio, prize a tight control over emphasized frequencies. My goal in getting the Q701s was to fill in the bass body of the AD700, but only enough to bring the audio production up to realistic sound production, to faithfully present music "how it was intended to be heard." Detail, soundstage, and that "transparency" are fun for me, but I understand how some people like to "turn it up!" and have a good time with a carefully colored sound. I have a pair of V-MODA Crossfade LPs I bought cheap 2nd hand when I feel like rocking out  No 2ndary headphone has gotten any head-time since I got my Q701s though, they are definitely my favorite.

I would also +1 that this class of headphones benefit from an amp better than in PMPs or an E5, I'm exploring an upgrade to buy once I increase my income. The Q701 is certainly loud enough and a better performer than the AD700 even when just powered by the E5, but you can tell its being held back, especially if you plug it into a bigger amp. I would guess at this point that the headphone makes a bigger difference than a different amp, but the difference isn't proportionate to the subjective _enjoyment._

Without knowing you, I feel like your feelings about your Sennheisers are the same as I started to feel about my AD700, but for different reasons. Upper-range Sennheisers FWIR have a laid-back house sound, so maybe you would get the "excitement" back if you found headphones with forward mids, or the "V-shaped sound signature" of the Beyers that MLE has been talking about lately. I love my Q's, and I'd say bring your stuff and we'll compare them, but I can't just say online that they're what you're looking for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, then he agreed with me that the DT990 Pros treble is less harsh due to more bass, so... yeah. I know what I'm hearing, and the 32ohm's treble hasn't bothered once. The 600ohm has gotten up there plenty of times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The most accurate comparison I can make is one between the K701 and Q701. The 600ohm DT990 is clearer, and more detailed, due to more control of the bass. The 32ohm's bass isn't AS controlled, and slightly slower, though its still pretty controlled and quick. The details aren't as revealing as the 600ohm, due to the warmer tone. If the treble on the 600ohm bothers you, really do recommend the 32ohm.

I dunno how updated Zombie's guide is, but having so much experience with the 990 as my MAIN can for as long as I have, I can hear the difference. I actually do like the 32ohm the most despite being not being superior in clarity to the 600ohm.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Both the DT990 and Q701 are more immersive than the Sennheisers.  I personally prefer the Q701 to the DT990, and you can read why here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review
> 
> The DT990 is just sort of an extreme "flavor" (V-shaped, lots of treble), so just make sure that's what you want before you go for it.  I actually find the Q701 more immersive, as it sounds less exaggerated and more realistic, while still having some fun bass and body like the DT990.  DT990 is sort of like watching a TV with the sharpness and color turned all the way up like they have them in the store (torch mode).
> 
> ...




Thanks for posting that comparison Chicolom! I haven't heard any Beyerdynamics, but I agree enthusiastically with what you say about the Q701s, and echo my sentiments about the AD700. I definitely enjoy a more "immersive" experience with the Q's than any other speaker or headphone I've heard in my life, or at least since I started paying attention. It's posts like yours, however, that make me think I shouldn't settle for any amp less than the O2 or M-Stage once I upgrade my amp


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The most accurate comparison I can make is one between the K701 and Q701. The 600ohm DT990 is clearer, and more detailed, due to more control of the bass. The 32ohm's bass isn't AS controlled, and slightly slower, though its still pretty controlled and quick. The details aren't as revealing as the 600ohm, due to the warmer tone. If the treble on the 600ohm bothers you, I really do recommend the 32ohm.




Interesting comparison. Having less mids just gets a no for me, but it's interesting how the warmer (more lush?) sound of the 32 ohm version allows the sound to be more cohesive/balanced for you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The mids on the 990s, are quite there and are very detailed. They're just not prominent because bass and treble is. The 990's mids are as detailed as the 880s. Thanks to the quick, and controlled bass, they aren't muted or anything. The Q701's mids are obviously more forward because the bass isn't as big as the 990s,and the treble is smoother.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Thanks for posting that comparison Chicolom! I haven't heard any Beyerdynamics, but I agree enthusiastically with what you say about the Q701s, and echo my sentiments about the AD700. I definitely enjoy a more "immersive" experience with the Q's than any other speaker or headphone I've heard in my life, or at least since I started paying attention. It's posts like yours, however, that make me think I shouldn't settle for any amp less than the O2 or M-Stage once I upgrade my amp


 
   
  Q701 FTW!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Feel free to make yourself at home here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread
   
  I doubt you would like the DT990s, if the Q701s sound "right" to you.  DT990 is like Q701 with an aggressive "Rock" EQ applied.
   
  If your a fan of them, it's probably worth it to give them a decent amp.  I wouldn't go above $250, but that still gets you the M-stage, ODA (whenever it comes out), and a couple others.
   
I think they also deserve a DAC for music listening !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the Q701, but love the DT990 that much more. How's that for preference, fool? 

They're too different to directly compare them anyways. I know you think the Q701's bass is close to the DT990, but you must be on some really strong stuff to think that. 

 That being said, the Q701 at times does have some nice bass, but it's more comparable to the DT880's bass, not the 990's, and even then, the 880 has more bass.

The strength of the Q701 is just how mellow, and true it is to the music. It has this nice hint of warmth that the K701 was definitely missing.
Still, for pure excitement and wow factor, I'd take the 880s and 990s over the Q701 any day of the week.

I'm gonna be listening to the DT990s over my soundcard to see if the harsh treble comes back.
*edit: Nevermind, that was a huge mistake. It was a gob of muffled bass and almost no detail... jesus... what a terrible experience.*


 All I know is that I was playing DJ Max yesterday on my Vita, and even unamped, the DT990 was warm and engaging, and the treble was not like how I remember the 990/600's. Seriously, no treble fatigue. I'm coming off the HE-400 which is even warmer still, and the DT990 didn't sound trebly next to it. In the old days, when I directly compared the DT990/600 to the D7000, going from one to the other would be shocking in terms of tonal balance. If I listened to the DT990 all day and went to the D7000, the D7000 would sound muffled and much too warm. If I listened to the D7000 all day and went to the DT990/600, the DT990 would sound like pure unadulterated TREBLE. Having done the same with the HE-400 and DT990/32, It wasn't anywhere near that stark of a difference. Sure, the DT990 is brighter, but the treble still didn't shock me even after listening to the HE-400 all day..

Unless I have the best DT990/32 out there, I call BS on the treble being hotter than the DT990/600, no offense to Zombie (who has been very helpful to me through my audiophile life).

Hell, I'm considering sending you this pair of DT990's, so you can see what I'm talking about. The treble is good even on the songs that KILL me with treble. There is zero doubt on my mind that this pair has less treble peaks than all the other DT990s I have used.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm gonna be listening to the DT990s over my soundcard to see if the harsh treble comes back.
> *edit: Nevermind, that was a huge mistake. It was a gob of muffled bass and almost no detail... jesus... what a terrible experience*


 
   
  Quote:


chicolom said:


> Check out my laptop's audio board.    Pretty impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't see what the problem is with onboard sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a Beats Audio soundcard that came with my HP desktop. Hell, the HE-400 sounds good off it... but the DT990? No wai. I went back to the NFB5, and it was like going from a $50 headphone, to a $200 one.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I love the Q701, but love the DT990 that much more. How's that for preference, fool?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I accept that the DT990 has moar bass.  I ACCEPT IT!!!   It's just that I don't care too much.  I mean for me DT990 is like Q701 with bass boosts.  But, as you know I don't think the Q701 needs bass boost.  Sure I turn it on sometimes as a guilty pleasure, but I wouldn't want it to come stuck that way stock. 
   
  DT990 is a bit thumpier, humpier, and slammier.  A Q701 with bass boost sounds as good bass-wise as a stock DT990 too me.  And a DT990 with bass boost - ...NOOoooo 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
   

   
   
  I think the bass on the headrooms graphs is accurate-ish to how they sound in real life.  Graphs NEVAR LYIIEE!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have a Beats Audio soundcard that came with my HP desktop. Hell, the HE-400 sounds good off it... but the DT990? No wai. I went back to the NFB5, and it was like going from a $50 headphone, to a $200 one.


 
   
  Beats eh?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, that graph, makes it sound like the have a similar sound up until the treble. Couldn't be further from the truth.

And god no, bass boosting the DT990 would murder the sound quality. The Q701 loves a good bass boost BECAUSE it's not that bassy to begin with. 

I wonder how the 32ohm's graph would look like. I guarantee it'd probably have a bigger bass hump, and less treble peak. It's pretty bassy, so I'm thinking you probably wouldn't like it. It has a lovely impact, but even for me, it's borderline too much. That's probably why the 600ohm gets the most love. It's clearer, less bassy, but I still say the treble is hottest.

Yes, Beats Audio... it was the only option available.


----------



## chicolom

I remember really liking the DT880 bass (250ohm version).  Treble was perfectly fine.  Bass was fun.  I don't remember the mids much, but I think they were OK. The soundstage could have been larger.  I would love Beyer to make something with the signature of the DT880 but with a huge soundstage and good positioning.  Is that the T90?  I still don't know, but FWIR so far the bass isn't as impressive as you'd expect it to be.  Maybe it makes up for that in other areas...
   
  I thought zombie_X would have them by now, and be able to give some impressions.


----------



## rabinzero

So I bought the Harman Kardon AVR 335 receiver for $175 and I'm one happy son of a b!tch!  I no longer feel the Q701's have the little bit of lacking strength when I was using them with the AX720.  Really glad I invested in this receiver versus getting the Astro Mixamp and then turning around and getting a receiver for my real speakers.  I can't believe receivers now days with Dolby Headphone are above $800 to obtain.  Ridiculous!


----------



## Evshrug

Rabinzero, glad you got something that will work for you 

Mad Lust Eeeenvy,
I wasn't slamming on the DT990 for lack of mids, how could I, never having heard them? But I like slightly forward mids, was looking for that. I've also come to appreciate the Q701 smooth treble over the more grainy AD700... makes some challenging songs fun instead of a little grating on the ears. Lol@ your beats audio sound, you know I've heard that there's this guy called NamelessPFG who wrote a guide on pc audio. Dunno where I heard about it though.

Chicolom, did I not post in that forum yet? No I didn't! Not sure what to say other than I also like my Q701?

Glad everyone's having good times!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, why would I buy a soundcard when I use my NFB5? Lol. I only used the soundcard to test how the DT990 fares on it, being obviously inferior to the NFB5. Soundcards are useless for those of us who have external dacs. That is, unless you wanna get something with a virtual surround decoder. I don't play on PC, so it has no use for me.

I'm probably not gonna keep the DT990 though. I don't feel bad about returning it, as it was already used.

The HE400 is all the headphone I need at home. I do like that it's easier to drive than the HE400 though.... hmm. I have a slight headache today, so I want to be at 100% before I make my decision. No denying, that the DT990/32 is stellar for the $200 I spent. Better than the DT990 pro (less bass bloat), and easier to drive.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I remember really liking the DT880 bass (250ohm version).  Treble was perfectly fine.  Bass was fun.  I don't remember the mids much, but I think they were OK. The soundstage could have been larger.  I would love Beyer to make something with the signature of the DT880 but with a huge soundstage and good positioning.  Is that the T90?  I still don't know, but FWIR so far the bass isn't as impressive as you'd expect it to be.  Maybe it makes up for that in other areas...
> 
> I thought zombie_X would have them by now, and be able to give some impressions.


 
  Yea when I had my DT880 pro-250 pro I liked them alot. was great headphones, but my need of close because of the noise in my apt complex and outside. I sold them to get closed back headphones. Man people can shout loud outside even with the windows close. But the person I sold the DT880 pro-250 to are very happy as it prolly there first real headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I may have to detract my statement about the 32ohm Beyers sounding like crap without an amp. The DT990/32 sounds DAMN good off my Sansa Fuze. Clear, snappy, and lively. Definitely not as good as off my NFB5, but it does sound plenty awesome. Damn, my PC soundcard must be REALLY crappy if a portable device makes the DT990 sound good...

SERIOUSLY. I like it off my Fuze! That's two things that sounds good unpamped. The Sansa Fuze, and the Vita (though the Vita needs just a little more juice for headroom in terms of power...)

I may have to keep it just because of that... the HE400 can't do that.

No lie, I prefer the DT990/32 over the Pro 900. Open sound, thumping bass like a closed headphone, and surprising efficiency? Oh yes.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> So I bought the Harman Kardon AVR 335 receiver for $175 and I'm one happy son of a b!tch!  I no longer feel the Q701's have the little bit of lacking strength when I was using them with the AX720.  Really glad I invested in this receiver versus getting the Astro Mixamp and then turning around and getting a receiver for my real speakers.  I can't believe receivers now days with Dolby Headphone are above $800 to obtain.  Ridiculous!


 
  Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's version of headphone surround sound, it's even on their $180 receivers.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ...I'm probably not gonna keep the DT990 though.
> 
> ...I may have to keep it just because of that... the HE400 can't do that.


 
   
  LOL, you and your post-editing-flip-flopping.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no. I mean I'm probably gonna send them back, but then I tried them out of my Fuze, and was really impressed, making me rethink the decision to return them.

If I had bought them new, I'd definitely keep them. Because it's already been opened, I don't feel bad. I've just put in some burn in for the next person... 

Still, I'm 50/50 atm.

This may be the first time I use almost the full 30 days to make my decision...maybe.

It depends on whether I see myself splitting my headphone time between the HE400 and DT990s. Right now, I don't think the DT990s would take time away from my HE400s. Honestly, the DT990's signature is MORE to my preference than the HE400s, but the HE400s are too damn good that I can excuse the fact that they aren't v-shaped.

Honestly, if I had owned the DT990/32 a long time ago, I think my head-fi history would've been VERY different. I would've built my setup around it.

I'd probably would've ended at the DT990/32 and the Pro 900 (as the closest closed headphone that sounds like it.)

BTW, the price has gone down to $262 today on Amazon. It was $375 yesterday. :rolleyes:


----------



## chicolom

I wonder if Amazon hates head-fiers for using them as a headphone rental agency.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. What I'm scared of is that I'll find the HE400 bass light after listening to the DT990 if I decide to keep them. The HE400 really isn't, but I absolutely love the bass on the DT990s (especially after my headache went away, lol).

ARGH.


----------



## Eric_C

Here, let me (not) help. How would you rate the DT 990 Premium (250 ohms)? You've just about tested the entire 990 line-up...might as well finish it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol. I haven't heard the 250ohm Premium, just the Pros. They all sound very much alike, though the Pros have a boost in bass over the Premiums, as Zombie stated. The Premium 32 ohm is quite bassy as is. I can see why I didn't care for the Pro's level of bass. It was too much for my ears.

Ironically, the Pro 900 has even more bass, but the way the bass hits isn't as fatiguing.

All in all, the 600ohm with a treble reduction would be the best DT990 in sheer SQ. The 32ohm comes next and honestly doesn't need anything changed, but it isn't as technically clear as the 600ohm. It does have a better balance for me, which is why I like it more. I'm willing to bet the 250ohm DT990 is practically identical to the 600ohm.

I'm glad I went with the 32ohm, as it really doesn't require too much amping, whereas the 250ohm would need about as much as the 600ohm (desktop amp to get it to it's fullest potential). At that point, I'd just choose whichever is cheapest. For my use, the 32ohm works with a portable amp, which is what I got with the E17. I did expect the DT990/32 to need a treble reduction... which doesn't seem to be the case.



I assume the DT990 on the graph is the 250ohm.

That's too similar to consider it anything other than almost identical. The biggest differences are only about 2db apart, which realistically isn't enough to make a difference in real life testing. The 10,000hz treble peak is identical, which is the problem area on the DT990s for people. I'm willing to bet the 32ohm has a slightly lower peak there. A few decibels, easily.


----------



## Evshrug

eric_c said:


> Here, let me (not) help. How would you rate the DT 990 Premium (250 ohms)? You've just about tested the entire 990 line-up...might as well finish it.




Hahaha! Had to laugh 
It appears as if MLE doesn't like to "sit still," which may make Amazon or his wallet unhappy... But that exact trait is very valuable to this guide and it's readers  For example, MLE aren't you at all curious if the mid-Ohm DT990 250 Premium would have the perfect balance between the 32Ohm's cohesion & non-fatiguing signature and the 600 Ohm model's clarity? I admit that I kinda am, though I lack the DT990 experience you have. You know as well as any that freq graphs don't tell the whole story, and it looks like the 250 Ohm version has slightly more optimal Freq anyway (mids, bass extension, more even treble...).

PS I estimate another 30 hours of burn in are left on my Q701s


----------



## wj888

Maybe you can try a Fostex T50RP modded and see how it compares against the HE-400?? 
  I'm waiting for mine to arrive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The treble where it's most prone to problems is exactly the same (10,000 hz) on both. The differences are negligible everywhere else. 2 to 2.5db (at the biggest gap in bass) differences. That's really not enough to make a real difference (a real difference honestly starts at about 4db). It'd make the most difference in the treble peak, which it doesn't even have a gap between the two.

If you look at the DT880 graphs, the treble peak is almost identical. The 32ohm has the most treble on the DT880s in any case, and even then, it's not even fatiguing, IMHO. The 250ohm DT880 has the most balanced frequency on the headroom graphs, yet everyone constantly says the 600ohm is better (though lots of people say the 250ohm is actually better). In any case, my friends who have owned all the 880s have told me they all sound too close to really tell me one is clearly better than the other. Beyer got it right by telling us to choose one which suits our needs.

The T50RP is closed and pleather padded. No thanks.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's version of headphone surround sound, it's even on their $180 receivers.


 
  How would you rate a Yamaha RX3010 reciever for Dolby Headphone use/3d positioning in FPS games?.
  Because i have been looking alot on that reciever for my Monitor Audio RX surround setup, and it would just be a win/win situation if it does the job hell much better than the Mixamp and Asus Essence STX sound card .
  Else the little brother RX2010 could be possible?.
   
  BTW MLE, why havn't you Tested the Panasonic RP-HTF600-S headphones?.
  They're damn cheap, but sounds exceptional nice, and i run them from my Denon Avr-1912 atm 
  Take a look at http://www.head-fi.org/t/571005/the-panasonic-rp-htf600-s-headphones-more-fun-than-the-hd650


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The panasonic I've heard is a very smooth and bassy headphone. I don't like smooth headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





grymok said:


> How would you rate a Yamaha RX3010 receiver for Dolby Headphone use/3d positioning in FPS games?.
> Because i have been looking a lot on that receiver for my Monitor Audio RX surround setup, and it would just be a win/win situation if it does the job hell much better than the Mix-amp and Asus Essence STX sound card .
> Else the little brother RX2010 could be possible?.


 
  The Yamaha receivers use Dolby features for all the speaker stuff, but not Dolby Headphone, only Silent Cinema for headphones.
  Some like Silent Cinema better then Dolby Headphone, some prefer Dolby Headphone over Silent Cinema.
  I would guess Silent Cinema is the same quality wise no matter which Yamaha receiver you get.
  If your really into FPS PC gaming, get the Creative Titanium HD and plug it into whatever receiver you get, you can connect with RCA, optical/optical and even HDMI from your graphics card.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Yamaha receivers use Dolby features for all the speaker stuff, but not Dolby Headphone, only Silent Cinema for headphones.
> Some like Silent Cinema better then Dolby Headphone, some prefer Dolby Headphone over Silent Cinema.
> I would guess Silent Cinema is the same quality wise no matter which Yamaha receiver you get.
> If your really into FPS PC gaming, get the Creative Titanium HD and plug it into whatever receiver you get, you can connect with RCA, optical/optical and even HDMI from your graphics card.


 
  i REALLY REALLY hate Creative, thier drivers for thier sound card is SOOO ****ED. Sry rage time, i really don't like them 
   
  But read a topic on head-fi that someone would over all suggest the Asus Essence STX, they make a waaay better sound and then they got an buildin amp 
   
  For the reciever part, maybe the Silent Cinema is the same, for thier amp for headphone shouldn't be the same if the model cost 100£ or 2000£. I'm pretty sure there is a difference in the sound quality .
   
  Would be nice if i could test if i shall get the reciever or sound card :S


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The sound quality may vary by the amps inside the receivers, but the Silent Cinema processing will be the exact same, so positional cues and whatnot will be the same.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





grymok said:


> i REALLY REALLY hate Creative, thier drivers for thier sound card is SOOO ****ED. Sry rage time, i really don't like them
> 
> But read a topic on head-fi that someone would over all suggest the Asus Essence STX, they make a waaay better sound and then they got an buildin amp


 
   
  I'm no fan of Creative's business practices (*cough*Daniel_K*cough*), but in my experience, the Titanium HD's drivers are significantly more stable than the other X-Fi cards I've tried. I have no problems with them, other than the occasional mode lock that isn't too infuriating when I spend the majority of my time in Game Mode.
   
  That gives me some relief since, unfortunately, Creative-based cards are the only way to go for proper DirectSound3D and OpenAL support in older PC games for the time being. No C-Media card can compete there, be it Asus, HT Omega, or the non-X-Fi Auzentech cards, as long as Creative has all that 3D audio tech (some developed in-house, some acquired from Aureal and Sensaura) in their iron grasp.
   
  I'm still waiting for Rapture3D-esque software that supports DirectSound3D games, handles EAX 5 and everything below just fine, still provides virtual 5.1/7.1 for XAudio2/X3DAudio games, and maybe even supports Aureal A3D 3.0 and under. Then I'd no longer need to buy specific sound cards ever again, at least until I hit the DOS era of gaming.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





grymok said:


> i REALLY REALLY hate Creative, their drivers for their sound card is SOOO ****ED. Sry rage time, i really don't like them
> 
> But read a topic on head-fi that someone would over all suggest the Asus Essence STX, they make a waaay better sound and then they got an buildin amp
> 
> ...


 
  My $500 Yamaha RX-V671 can drive my AKG 600-Ohm headphone just fine.
  For most receivers (all brands), when you plug your headphones in, the internal receiver speaker amplifier(s) stop driving the speakers and switch over to driving the headphones.
  So there is more then enough juice for driving headphones.
  Now the more expensive the amplifier, chances are they will come with better DACs (better quality audio).
  With an Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card (used $50), which has almost the same features as the Essence STX/ST.
  You can run optical from the Xonar DX/D1 to the receiver and get 5.1 surround sound for headphones and speakers.
  I use the Essence STX, so I have no problem recommending to just go ahead and get the Essence STX.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Well after fighting within myself, I finally ordered the HE400s with velour, and an E11. Very excited and nervous at the same time. I'm sure they will be better than the two I've experienced(px3 and a50). $400 better? Perhaps. I look forward to hearing what a real set of headphones sound like. Immersion is my top priority tho. Did sound change much during the burn in process?


----------



## obazavil

Heh...
   
  I come back after some months and MLE is still crazy as ever about what headphones to keep.
   
  Surprised to see he liked HE-400 a lot to still have them, and also that he re-bought again the DT990.
   
  Long time bro!
   
  That reminds me... I need to remember where I left the MixAmp...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sup bro? You know me, can't ever make up my damn mind.

But yeah, the HE400 is too good to give up. My predicament now is that the 990/32 suits me so well, I'd be more than happy with it alone, or the HE400 alone.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol obazavil!

Purple angel, if using receiver + PC Soundcard, wouldn't the receiver's DAC section be irrelevant as the soundcard would be the DAC? Also, receiver amps do have a ton of power, but I was under the impression that they had a separate amp section (or maybe gain?) for headphone jacks as a "normal" speaker volume setting doesn't blow out headphones when you plug them in. How does that work?

Nameless,
So you game going back in time? Or does the occasional new game bring you (Ba-da-dum!) back to the future? Also, I know the Daniel_K thing is bad because despite never having delved into discreet audio cards before, I heard about the incident just in reading reviews on Creative's cards. I guess Creative is starting to get bull-headed since their market niche has been slowly drying up unexpectedly since the latest console generation... I would've thought PC gaming would be expanding larger than ever now that the consoles are showing their age, but MMO's and BF3 are the only AAA experiences on PC that have hit my radar, and of course you've expounded on why BF3 audio is an example of a step back. Recently I played Halo Reach and I was amazed how much clearer the positioning and distance cues are than BF3, even just on XBOX in stereo!
Excited for Halo4, though I wish Microsoft would have 343 industries develop it for Windows in parallel to their console.

Grymok,
I'm sure MLE could test those receivers and headphones... if you or someone provided them to him for free. Also, MLE stated in his guide that many headphones he listened to didn't rate a gaming review, and that he's not really interested anymore in stepping down in quality (exception, maybe the dt990).

MLE,
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol obazavil!
> Purple angel, if using receiver + PC Soundcard, wouldn't the receiver's DAC section be irrelevant as the sound card would be the DAC? Also, receiver amps do have a ton of power, but I was under the impression that they had a separate amp section (or maybe gain?) for headphone jacks as a "normal" speaker volume setting doesn't blow out headphones when you plug them in. How does that work?


 
  With the Xonar DX/D1, you can use DDL (Dolby Digital Live) to send a compressed 5.1 digital audio signal (optical) from the PC to the receiver, where  the receiver would use it's DAC (Digital to Analog Converter).
  You can also use (3 mini-jack) analog cables to connect the sound cards analog audio signal to the receivers line-in (RCAs), if the receiver comes with 6-channel (5.1) line in connectors,
  this connection would have you using the sound card's DAC and not the receiver's DAC.
  I would assume it's cheap to use the speaker amplifier to power the headphone jack instead of a separate amplifier (just for the headphone jack).
  They put something (resisters maybe?) between the speaker amps and the headphone jack that allows the speaker amps to power the headphone jack.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> So you game going back in time? Or does the occasional new game bring you (Ba-da-dum!) back to the future? Also, I know the Daniel_K thing is bad because despite never having delved into discreet audio cards before, I heard about the incident just in reading reviews on Creative's cards. I guess Creative is starting to get bull-headed since their market niche has been slowly drying up unexpectedly since the latest console generation... I would've thought PC gaming would be expanding larger than ever now that the consoles are showing their age, but MMO's and BF3 are the only AAA experiences on PC that have hit my radar, and of course you've expounded on why BF3 audio is an example of a step back. Recently I played Halo Reach and I was amazed how much clearer the positioning and distance cues are than BF3, even just on XBOX in stereo!
> Excited for Halo4, though I wish Microsoft would have 343 industries develop it for Windows in parallel to their console.


 
   
  Haha, no, I don't perceive time in reverse, but I am more of a retrogamer than most here, especially if games as recent as the likes of Unreal Tournament and Battlefield 1942 are somehow "retro" by today's standards. I also don't like the direction modern games are taking; for example, BF2142 basically spelled the beginning of the end for the Battlefield series by overdoing the unlocks, and BF:BC2 made me lose all faith in DICE to the point where I won't even consider BF3. (M60 + Magnum Ammo madness when I was still stuck on the starting PKM just a month into release did not help one bit.)
   
  But it's not like I swear off newer games entirely; in fact, I'm about to start playing lots and lots of PlanetSide 2 and MechWarrior Online, and there's always Rise of Flight when I'm up for a hardcore WWI flight sim challenge.
   
  I just wish game developers would start using OpenAL again; they could use the OpenAL-native EFX effects that every sound device has instead of proprietary Creative EAX for reverb/chorus/occlusion, and anyone could have true binaural 3D sound with no less than six HRTFs to choose from, regardless of sound card, through Rapture3D. Problem is, Creative also owns OpenAL and is allegedly not helping prospective developers much...
   
  Creative being bull-headed is nothing new, really. They basically sued Aureal, who just launched the 3D sound revolution with their A3D tech and Vortex sound card chipset, Aureal countersued and technically won, but the legal fees basically bankrupted them and allowed Creative to buy them up so they could utterly bury A3D and deny support to Vortex-based sound cards...so the story goes, anyway.
   
  Had Aureal survived, I bet the state of PC gaming audio would be much, much better than it is now, simply because they were the biggest competitor Creative ever had in PC gaming audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, it's so hard A/B-ing the HE-400 and DT990/32. I love them both for entirely different reasons. Lol. The HE-400 adds this warmth, body, and realism to the sound, but I go back to the DT990, and it adds this energy and fun factor to the music. I'm stoked to have them both...argh! The good thing about both is that the HE-400 reminds me of what I loved in the Q701's but with even more body and bass (teh tradeoff being the soundstage size), and the DT990 reminds me of what I love about V-shaped headphones without being as problematic in the treble as I remember the 600ohm being, nor is the bass overwhelming for a bassy headphone.

All in all, I think I found the two best headphones for ME... but I'm not someone who sees myself switching back and forth based on mood. I'd use both for any occasion. I wish the DT990 was 'closed'. I really do prefer it over the Pro 900.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Let me guess: your wallet can't allow keeping both, thus you're trying to decide on just one? That's Head-Fi for you...as it stands, I'm really having the temptation lately to get more headphones AND a proper amplifier if the opportunity presents itself, because I just cannot have enough Stax experience.
   
  By the way, I get the Recon3D USB on Wednesday and will start evaluating it then. Would you like to review it yourself after I'm done with it, particularly the Dolby Digital S/PDIF decoding aspect of it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll see if you deem it worthy first. If you do, pm me, we'll work something out. My biggest problem is that I don't spend a lot of time gaming anymore...

 I still don't know how the Recon 3D is supposed too work on consoles...

As for my cans, I can own both, but that's a guilty purchase if I've ever had one, lol. I still want a 3DS XL. 

What's funny is just how much the HE400 leaks vs the DT990. The DT990 may as well be a closed headphone in comparison. The HE400 leaks like all hell. I can actually use the DT990 when my roomie is sleeping (she sleeps with the door open while I'm in the living room), without feeling guilty. The DT990's leak doesn't travel that far or that loudly. The HE400 is like having a small radio playing. It's crazy. They both don't really reach her room, but the HE-400 comes close.


----------



## chicolom

No new cans for me for a while, b/c instead I'm doing a much needed wanted TV upgrade


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sold off my original D7000, HE-4, and the Schiit Lyr to help fund for my Panasonic 65ST30 (65" 3D Plasma). I know the feeling of having to hold back on audio stuff for videophile stuff.


----------



## NamelessPFG

The HE-400 probably leaks so much because of the dipole nature of planar drivers, which is to say that they emit sound both inward and outward due to being a symmetrical sandwich of materials. The same thing happens with the Stax sets I've tried.
   
  It's also why ESL users like to place their speakers some distance from the wall behind them, since placing them too close to the wall doesn't make the most of the backwave or whatever you might call it as it reflects off the wall and back toward your ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. Just hovering your hands near the HE-400's cups will alter SQ negatively. I'm talking about like 8 inches away... that's quite some distance for the outside world to affect the HE-400. This is why I don't like laying down with themn, as my pillows might affect the SQ...


----------



## NamelessPFG

8" sounds like quite the exaggeration.
   
  My SR-Lambda is noticeably affected just by hovering my hands beside the cups, one or even two inches away...but around the three-inch mark, my hands no longer affect the sound.
   
  And I know the feeling about videophilia...ironically, while I'm more of a videophile at heart, the reason I'm descending into audiophilia is that, by comparison, it's actually _cheaper_ to own an electrostatic rig. (Well, not the Sennheiser Orpheus or a Stax SR-009 + BHSE. I meant Stax Lambda and Koss ESP/950 systems.)
   
  I just can't afford the displays I really want, ranging from a Sony GDM-FW900 (for a PC monitor) to a Sony G70 or Barco Cine 9 (for front projectors), and don't get me started on the HMDs (though the Oculus Rift may change that). Rarity doesn't help at all, since most of what I want is older CRT-based hardware.
   
  At least I can find a capture card that meets my standards for a mere US$125, and it's not ridiculously rare like the Immersive Holo3DGraph II cards I was seeking prior while also working on Win7 64-bit systems and accepting HDMI input...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> 8" sounds like quite the exaggeration.




I'm trying it right now. Having my hands that close affects SQ. Not as much as when my hands are closer, but it does prove to me that it DOES affect the sound. edit: Okay, more like 5 inches. 

And I'm still on the hunt for a 1080p display with HDMI inputs that can fold up like a laptop. Lol. I know some laptops have it (certain Alienware and Origin laptops to name some), but I don't want a computer.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
It sounds like the HE 400 is really impressive in sound quality and is an achievement in tactile quality for something it's size, but the much less expensive DT990 32ohm provides an equal level of enjoyment (yeah for different reasons), could be considered more comfortable (light), and is all around easier to live with. That's not to say that the making the extra considerations for the HE 400 can't be fun in their own right, it's a way of being dedicated to your experience, and it kinda fulfills the same obsession that would be otherwise focused on comparing all the headphones that piqué your curiosity. That last sentence got away from me a bit, but maybe you need a headphone that requires your attention and accessories so that you can finally have reached your headphone endgame. At least until the wear out. Eh, I dunno where I'm going with this, it's late and I'm tired.

NamelessPFG,
I didn't know of the corporate maneuvering Creative did, just heard about Daniel_K and assumed that (like most companies) they want to keep their internal tech so that they retain their competitive advantage. But yeah, it sounds like in hindsight they've managed to make their special features irrelevant by making it difficult to implement them in games.
Though I did buy the Recon3D USB anyway. Mine arrives on Tuesday, hopefully our reviews and comments compliment eachother. Oh, and Mad Lust Envy, there are jacks for headphone and mic, and a combo optical-in/aux-in jack for connecting to the Xbox's toslink port for 5.1 surround, and a USB port for computers. The rest is all volume stuff and the two EQ presets.

Holy! I thought I saw an animal in my room! Alright I'm going to sleep now XD.


----------



## Phos

Not everyone's a fan of the DT990's treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're right, however, the DT990/32's treble is noticeably less peaky than the 600ohms, despite Zombie's statements. I have used the DT990/600 as my main can longer than I'm sure he has, and I'm very well acquainted with their sound. The 32ohm's treble is easier on the ears by quite a stretch. I honestly think that those who didn't like the DT990/600's treble could probably try and like the 32ohm. But hey, what do I know?

In any case, I spent all of tonight A/B-ing the HE400 and DT990, and the HE-400 just consistently wows me with everything I throw at it. I do love the DT990's, and they are great on their own merits, even if the HE-400 is a definite step above overall. Still, I'm re-adjusting to the DT990's fit on my head and whatnot, and I'm finding them more comfortable than I remember. They really are light as a feather, and I dunno about everyone else, but my ears don't get crunched up against the padding. Some of you must have some dumbo sized ears... h34r: When you put the HE400, then go and put the DT990's on... it's quite a contrast in weight and pad comfort. Those DT990 velours should be a sin. They are too damn soft and lovely, lol.

I feel like I can relax with the DT990 more than the HE400, and use them while laying back, etc.

They're just great all rounders for me, with that extra benefit of being energetic and immediately pleasing for my preferred genres. I really am leaning on keeping them.

My KSC35 is about to be sent out to Koss for repair/replacement. I don't hardly ever use them, but I feel naked without them. It's gonna cost me $9 for the ship/handling back to me, not to mention the cost of shipping it to them. That's probably more than the cost of the KSC75! The lifetime warranty sounds good on paper, but for the KSC75, it's probably best to just buy a new pair. However, the KSC35 was $45, so I guess I better take the hit and get them fixed.

That's one thing I hate about these and the 75s... the eventually get driver rattle. It's happened to both my 75 and 35, and on the same driver. I didn't use the KSC35 THAT much, so I'm convinced that this is a widespread occurrence, as I have heard the same of other KSC75 owners.

Oh, damn it! My E17 came yesterday, but I was working, and they wanted signature confirmation. BOO. So now I have to reschedule the delivery or pick them up in nowhereville, which is bullcrap, as there is a post office right next to my apartments. They're doing this on purpose, I swear. Oh well, I can't really use it until Monday anyways, as my two long days are today and tomorrow, where I have literally an hour or two to wind down before I HAVE to sleep. :rolleyes:


----------



## Mrniceguy633

mad lust envy said:


> You're right, however, the DT990/32's treble is noticeably less peaky than the 600ohms, despite Zombie's statements. I have used the DT990/600 as my main can longer than I'm sure he has, and I'm very well acquainted with their sound. The 32ohm's treble is easier on the ears by quite a stretch. I honestly think that those who didn't like the DT990/600's treble could probably try and like the 32ohm. But hey, what do I know?
> In any case, I spent all of tonight A/B-ing the HE400 and DT990, and the HE-400 just consistently wows me with everything I throw at it. I do love the DT990's, and they are great on their own merits, even if the HE-400 is a definite step above overall. Still, I'm re-adjusting to the DT990's fit on my head and whatnot, and I'm finding them more comfortable than I remember. They really are light as a feather, and I dunno about everyone else, but my ears don't get crunched up against the padding. Some of you must have some dumbo sized ears... h34r: When you put the HE400, then go and put the DT990's on... it's quite a contrast in weight and pad comfort. Those DT990 velours should be a sin. They are too damn soft and lovely, lol.
> I feel like I can relax with the DT990 more than the HE400, and use them while laying back, etc.
> They're just great all rounders for me, with that extra benefit of being energetic and immediately pleasing for my preferred genres. I really am leaning on keeping them.
> ...




How was the burn in with the HE400? Did the sound change all that much? Just finally ordered a pair, wondering what to expect


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Grymok,
> I'm sure MLE could test those receivers and headphones... if you or someone provided them to him for free. Also, MLE stated in his guide that many headphones he listened to didn't rate a gaming review, and that he's not really interested anymore in stepping down in quality (exception, maybe the dt990).


 
  True true . But if you go the RP-HRT600 thread, some of the guys there, compare them to the Sennheiser HD 650. So they can't be that "bad" as you and MLE thinks 
  they cost 30$ so not much to spend. Most people say they easy beat the AD700


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My KSC35 is about to be sent out to Koss for repair/replacement. I don't hardly ever use them, but I feel naked without them. It's gonna cost me $9 for the ship/handling back to me, not to mention the cost of shipping it to them. That's probably more than the cost of the KSC75! The lifetime warranty sounds good on paper, but for the KSC75, it's probably best to just buy a new pair. However, the KSC35 was $45, so I guess I better take the hit and get them fixed.
> 
> 
> That's one thing I hate about these and the 75s... the eventually get driver rattle. It's happened to both my 75 and 35, and on the same driver. I didn't use the KSC35 THAT much, so I'm convinced that this is a widespread occurrence, as I have heard the same of other KSC75 owners.]


 
   
  I've read that if you send in KSC35s to Koss they replace them with KSC7s, as they are the "newer, updated" model.  Even though they sound 95% the same to me once they have the same clips on, that'd be annoying b/c of the price difference.
   
   
  As for the driver rattling, that's usually caused by hairs that have fallen inside against the driver.  Just take them apart and clean out the hairs and your good to go.


----------



## rabinzero

Just wanted to thank a few members here for helping me make "smart" purchases and aiding to my satisfaction with my current gear.  Mad Lust Envy, Chicolom, PurpelAngel, and Evshrug...with your input and responses, I have a setup I am completely satisfied with and am now gaming with a huge smile!  And soon will have speakers to fill my ears when I don't wear my phones.  This is what head-fi is all about.


----------



## Wo33er

I'm looking for advice on acquiring a set of headphones, primarily for use with PC gaming specifically but something which I may adopt to for consoles if I find the sound difference worth the trouble associated. I've already submitted this post at my regular NeoGaf, but considering the wealth of knowledge in this thread I decided to register for double the advice (fantastic OP!).
   
_*Background*_
  I've never been one to give audio much of an opportunity to impress, typically opting for cheap £10 Logitech headphones or speakers that'll "do the job" (my current ones having had the right speak not functioning for several months now). Given that I'm happy to pay lots for IPS monitors and high end graphic cards, it seems only fair that audio gets a fair consideration.
   
  Until recently I'd been using an Xbox 360 Wireless headset for Xbox 360, PC and PS3 gaming. Whilst this is fine for the most part on the consoles, I've had a nightmare of a time getting bluetooth drivers and adapter to play nice on the PC, with constant background noise and complaints on my voice quality, and it was just generally a bad idea so have decided it's time to invest in a something a step up.
   
_*Considerations*_
  Whilst I'm looking to step into good audio, I've not the funds to warrant $500 cans that'll let me dream right. My price point is negotiable depending on advice to follow, but I'd ideally want to stick to no more than £150 ($237), so probably what is considered bare bones in this thread.
   
  Considering the low price point, is it worth just opting for an all-in-one cheap and no thrills gaming headset such as;

 Plantronics Gamecom 780 £40 ($63),
 Razer Carcharias £58 ($91) or
 Creative Labs Tactic Alpha £31 ($49).
  I'm anticipating the answer is no, "get a pair of headphones with a desktop mic".
   
  In looking at the recommended low budget cans from the OP and posts within/other threads I'm not sure on what combination of headphone amp (if one is needed at all) is needed in conjunction with which worthwhile (in comparison to the above cheap headsets) set of headphones. I.e;

 Sennheiser HD555 £80 ($126) or the annoying priced
 Audio-Technica ATH AD700 £125 ($197) which are only $90 in Americaland.
   
  A few features such as virtual surround sound, wireless and lightweight/comfort, but ultimately immersive audio and affordability is key. They'll mostly always be plugged into the PC (currently onboard soundcard, but looking to install Xonar DS).
   
  A consideration I'm having is also the Astro A30 Wired £150 ($237), if just because it gets me the Mixamp for cheaper - letting me invest in a DH amp, headphones and microphone in one package for the time being and allow for future upgrade to a pricer pair of headphones making use of the Mixamp down the line. Obviously that depends on the quality of the Astro though.
   
  Thanks for helping out a newb, I'll promise to neglect audio a little less.


----------



## Evshrug

rabinzero said:


> Just wanted to thank a few members here for helping me make "smart" purchases and aiding to my satisfaction with my current gear.  Mad Lust Envy, Chicolom, PurpelAngel, and Evshrug...with your input and responses, I have a setup I am completely satisfied with and am now gaming with a huge smile!  And soon will have speakers to fill my ears when I don't wear my phones.  This is what head-fi is all about.



Wow, you included me? Honored! But I don't feel like I have really contributed much, yet 
Using a receiver as headphone/speaker amp & device switcher for input to my Panasonic 42" plasma (humble features but absolutely gorgeous IMO) worked really well for me while I had my own place, I have a feeling I'll be quite satisfied again once I get set up in an apartment again.

Just some input on speakers, I have been very pleased with the pleasantly warm and smooth Polk Audio M40's (cherry) I bought from Newegg for $120 for the pair, but I've also heard good things about Pioneer's new budget line. Stereophile Magazine had a glowing review of the Pioneer SP-BS41-LR 2CH Bookshelf Loudspeakers (make sure you find the BS*41* model), but I haven't compared them to the good BS51 floorstanding speakers you can audition in Best Buy (keep in mind the placement will be very poor and with so much garbage in the store, heavy bass models with high sensitivity will stand out, I liked them but notice that they're quieter than others, Pioneer just released a 2012 model with a few tweaks for more $, but sometimes you can catch an amazing sale on these older models @ newegg). A later Stereophile article found a Boston Acoustics model to have more musical "magic" than the BS41, but of course at a higher price. Those would be my suggestions for places to start research.
If you don't have something to put these on at ear level, you can do what I did and buy two cheap bookshelves from Walmart (needed furnishing for my apartment anyway) or what I am going to do and buy speaker stands: Sanus NF24c Natural 24" Speaker Stand Pair Cherry & Black
Black stands are $16 cheaper but IMO don't look as nice, but that's just an opinion. Black speakers are generally most popular, but I have a lot of wood furniture and prefer the warmth of cherry to the industrial black. It's worth the difference to me for something I want to keep for a long time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm still rocking a Vizio soundbar... I kind of want to get a two speaker setup for my TV, as the soundbar is lacking in the mids and clarity. My problem is that I have a 65" that takes up the whole TV stand and the speakers would block the screen, unless I get low profile speakers.

Chico, Koss sells the KSC35, so I doubt they'd give me the 75.


----------



## Evshrug

wo33er said:


> _*Considerations*_
> Whilst I'm looking to step into good audio, I've not the funds to warrant $500 cans that'll let me dream right. My price point is negotiable depending on advice to follow, but I'd ideally want to stick to no more than £150 ($237), so probably what is considered bare bones in this thread.
> 
> I'm anticipating the answer is no, "get a pair of headphones with a desktop mic".
> ...




Wo33er,
I can tell from your word choice that you are both gentleman and scholar. Since your main motivation seems to be that your broken speakers are finally starting to get to you, that your audio expenditures trail the investment in other components, and finally because I am not paid to do this, I'm going to say that the more passionate enthusiast audio setups aren't for you... yet. You could jump straight up to flagship headphones with flagship amps and components, feel quite "Oh wow!"ed by the experience, and save a lot of money and time building up your experience to that point, _but_ you wouldn't have quite the same sense of value, satisfaction, and trained ears as someone who struggled up to that point.

An entry/mid-range headphone will still be an epiphany relative to your current experience, and you'll get to feel whether you have satiated your audio appetite or wish to pursue specific improvements down the line.

You said we'd probably suggest headphone + separate mic, and you were right. Sure there is a place for headsets & their convenience, but if you buy a lapel mic like this one or the one MLE suggested in the OP (mine shipped faster, nice having spares), you can buy a headphone that will beat headsets on price, sound quality, comfort, versatility, and refined looks (Hey! Why not have taste?). To connect the 3.5mm plug on the mic to the Xbox controller's 2.5mm jack, I am having success with this adapter, or you can get a similarly cheap adapter cable. I tell my Xbox to play chat audio through the "Speakers," but with the adapter I'm using, I have options (like if I want to separately send chat audio to a sound processor like the Mixamp).

As far as what to look for in a headphone, I'll quote fellow head-fi'er WiR3D for his concise points:

 very accurate imaging (most important feature)
 2 drivers ONLY.
 HUGE soundstage
 a Black background
 Analytical sound (aids in picking up details)
 not too boosted treble (to avoid loud piercing pains)
 completely circumaural and ultracomfortable.
 Weak isolation can be a bonus at LANs, but its not particularly a goal.

So that brings me to the point you are most interested in, what are the recommended headphones at an entry/mid-range price? Well, I'm going to suggest you look at the bottom of MLE's list. I don't know the prices in your area, but I would suggest the HD555 with some of the easymods documented on Head-Fi, Creative Aurvana Live!, or AD700. My personal experience at that range is with the AD700, it has been very good to me for years and responds pretty well to a little EQ, LOVE the soundstage & positioning, but if you aren't interested in a competitive-tuned headphone, the Sennheiser is capable, apparently cheaper, and doesn't have the polarizing looks of the unique AD700. I haven't heard the CAL!, but for perhaps cheaper I can give honorable mention to a suprise headphone I have heard that is not on MLE's list... the JVC HA-RX700. It's a little big, but pretty comfortable, and an amazing value for the price to get an engaging, musical sound. It doesn't have the soundstage of the AD700 (what does?) and in the week I had it to test and modify before giving it to my friend as a graduation present I didn't test it for positional cues in gaming, but it was detailed and a lot of fun. Of course, if you can save up to afford the DT770 and DT880 recommended by MLE, you'll be better off I think, but money still ought to go towards the final bit: sound components.

Mad Lust Envy swears by Dolby Headphone and binaural sound for gaming, and so do I if you can easily enable it. We're gonna ignore the (worthwhile IMO) upgrade to amps for right now, as my above suggestions should not require a dedicated amp to get you started. Right now my only headphone virtual surround option available is through my Yamaha receiver for Silent Cinema, but I can't set that up at the moment unfortunately, a problem I intend to solve with Creative's Recon3D USB sound processor that is on the way to my home. The Recon3D can be used with Windows, Mac, Xbox 360, & PS3. I hope you've checked out NamelessPFG's guide to computer gaming audio, because both he & I intend to review that sound processor next week, and of course Nameless already has a bunch of great suggestions for sound cards. His value favorite seems to be the Creative X-Fi titanium if you can find one refurbished, but Creative creates uncertainty about continued driver support. The Asus Xonar DX is also highly recommended around Head-Fi for value, but of course you have to compare prices. The Mixamp is Mad Lust Envy's favorite sound processor as someone who primarily games on console, but if your computer has an optical-out, the Mixamp could conceivably be used with the PC as well. Turtle Beach's best processor, the original DSS, can be found really cheap on eBay, but FWIR it's not as refined as the Mixamp. For quality at the least price, you're probably best off getting a refurbished decent soundcard, but if you've really gotta be cheap & your Motherboard's audio has an optical out, a used DSS is the cheapest way to get Dolby Headphone from all your devices.

Did I give you adaquate suggestions? Lol, maybe I should copy/paste this post into my own thread on gaming with headphones >_< Hey Mad, Nameless, and Purple Angel, wouldn't it be great to be paid for our research and recommendations? Or at least be sent stuff to review? Ha!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'm still rocking a Vizio soundbar... I kind of want to get a two speaker setup for my TV, as the soundbar is lacking in the mids and clarity. My problem is that I have a 65" that takes up the whole TV stand and the speakers would block the screen, unless I get low profile speakers.
> Chico, Koss sells the KSC35, so I doubt they'd give me the 75.




Mad,
If your (GIANT! @o@) tv doesn't take up the whole side of the room, you can consider separate stands next to your TV stand. I want the sanus stands I mentioned in my other post, they're one of the best priced purpose-built speaker stands I've seen (they come in black too), but from experience I can tell you that a pair of nightstands or small pair of bookshelves works well. The bookshelves have the added benefit of a place to organize cases for movies, games, and CDs. I had my TV atop a (nice wooden) cart that folds out into a table when I needed that, so I left the backing off one of my bookshelves and put my console and receivers on the shelves too, but your dedicated TV stand probably has space for that & you probably have media storage sorted out.


----------



## calpis

Got my mixamp about a week ago so I switched from using the DH from my receiver to DH on the mixamp. The cheap monster cable iphone mic works fine and I haven't gotten any complaints from my friends yet. I have found that in my current setup that nearby explosions in MW3 distorts like crazy when I have the mixamp hooked up to my mstage and have the volume cranked up. I have yet to try a different pair of headphones (besides my 2900) but that level of volume isn't really a healthy level that anyone should be playing at.
   
  I have also recently learned to really appreciate the Specialist Strike Package in MW3. I have my load out setup as Silenced MP7, Sleight of Hand Pro, Hardline Pro, Sitrep Pro, and my kill streak as Deadly Silence Pro @1point, Scavenger @3points, and Marathon @5points. Having Sitrep Pro and Deadly Silence Pro has proven to be quite the deadly combination to me and once you unlock all the perks, you basically become a terminator.


----------



## Evshrug

So, I just finished playing about three hours of CoD:BO and CoD4, while hooked up to my Yamaha receiver, and I gotta say... I wasn't hearing the 3D positioning tonight 

I had the Xbox connected via HDMI to the receiver, and Amazon's HDMI to DVI cable from there to my monitor, of course with my Q701s pugged into the Yamaha's headphone jack. Somewhere in my move to this pit of despair that is my Mom's house, my remote got lost, and without my user's manual I'm not entirely sure I enabled the virtual surround of Silent Cinema. I think you have to enable a DSP if I remember correctly and the receiver will automatically enable SC when you plug in headphones, so I tried Adventure Game, Roleplaying Game, Spectacle, and 5 Channel Surround decoder (that last one I believe is like Dolby Pro Logic II, up sampling stereo to surround), and towards the end I tried it in Straight mode for comparison.

When actually playing, I stopped for a moment 2 hours in and just focused on the sound of the chopper, while slowly spinning in place. Of course it moved around too, and I pretty much could hear it rotating around me, but the distance was hard to tell from sound alone... Beyond just how loud the guns were. When I was in the thick of the action (team deathmatch, a lot of action especially in BO), I didn't feel like I had "Sound radar" in front and behind me... I mean the sound played well but I just wasn't impressed. Roleplaying Game mode added reverb to the party chat voices, and spectacle added even more, but overall I could barely tell the difference in the game audio from the different DSPs as to the strength of the 3D effect. I did actually play consistently extra well however... Maybe I became subconsciously used to the 3D? I bet search & destroy would be a better test. When I switched back to stereo (straight) mode, the sound field did noticeably "flatten," however. Also good to note, sound was way crisper and dynamic on the Q701s with the extra juice of the receiver, no background noise even when I cranked the volume to MAX (in the Xbox guide, no sounds playing thank god!)

Purple Angel,
I would be interested to know what settings you settled on. Sometimes, too many options make things difficult, lol!

I would like to make the disclaimer that my impression is only preliminary, and right when I first got these headphones I used basically the same setup while playing Oblivion, and I could very clearly feel direction and distance. Also, even in CoD:BO (where there is so much extra noise) I felt the Game DSPs did something "good" even if I couldn't play the game with my eyes closed. So tomorrow I'm going to try out Halo Reach which has some great sound, maybe even some Mass Effect 2 (will have to start from the beginning, grr). It's funny, I found a way to stash my receiver while hooked up in my room just before my Recon3D processor arrives, and I'll have both just before my mom shuts down our Internet in September. I look forward to comparing the virtual surround encoding of Silent Cinema vs Creative's THX-TruStudio Pro (successor to CMSS-3D I believe) soon, but I wish I could round out the comparison with Dolby Headphone. Anybody interested in a temporary trade?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey Mad, Nameless, and Purple Angel, wouldn't it be great to be paid for our research and recommendations? Or at least be sent stuff to review? Ha!


 
   
  You have no idea how happy that would make me if I could just review things without having to pay full price for them first!
   
  Even $70 for the Recon3D has me feeling like it's a gamble when I'm trying to save money. Yeah, trying to save money even when I'm being tempted by the thoughts of more Stax/electrostatic hardware and GDM-FW900s I never thought I could afford before, especially in great condition. Buy more of one sort of tech, lose the ability to buy other kinds of tech, let alone review it...


----------



## Cybernet1000

Hi!
   
  I´m new here and I´m impressed with the knowledge here about headphones! Please forgive my bad english but i´m from Germany.
  I need some advise for an Gaming Headphone.
  My first experience is an Sony Wireless Stereo with Virtual Surround Feature. (http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Stereo-Headset-Playstation-3/dp/B0053OLY9O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345980539&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+wireless+7.1)
   
  Im still impressed with this - the ONLY thing lacking is the Bass and my ears are getting a litte warm. Other than this its "Perfect" for me! I can pinpoint the directions of Enemys very well with this.
   
  BUT I need an Set for XBOX360 and PS3 (will then also work on PC as well i think) It should have more/better Bass and my Ears should not get warm. Other than that it should be so comfortable like the Sony.
   
  After reading al lot here I think the best for me would be the Sennheiser PC360 with an Mixamp 5.8  or can I do better / a little bit cheaper?  I use it only for Gaming ! (60% Single Player 40% Online ) I often play 5-6 Hours in one session. (then SP Games)
   
  Thank you for your help and recommendations.
   
  Best
   
  Thomas


----------



## Wo33er

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I can tell from your word choice that you are both gentleman and scholar.


 
   
  <3
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I would suggest the HD555 with some of the easymods documented on Head-Fi, Creative Aurvana Live!, or AD700. I haven't heard the CAL!, but for perhaps cheaper I can give honorable mention to a suprise headphone I have heard that is not on MLE's list... the JVC HA-RX700.





> His value favorite seems to be the Creative X-Fi titanium if you can find one refurbished, but Creative creates uncertainty about continued driver support. The Asus Xonar DX is also highly recommended around Head-Fi for value, but of course you have to compare prices.


 
   
  For prices in my country, from most expensive to least to give an idea of value to quality...
   
   
_*Headphones;*_
DT770  - £129
AD700  - £124
HD555  - £80
Aurvana Live  - £53
JVC HA-RX700  - £31.55
   
_*Soundcard;*_
Creative X-Fi Titanium - £64 (only thing not Amazon!)
Asustek Xonar DX  - £63
Asus Xonar DGX  - £27
   
  Looking at the DGX, will that be more beneficial for primarily headphone use given that it has a built in amp and what I expect is barebones Dolby Headphones, or would it be better to invest in the more expensive Titanium/DX?
   
  I'd love to get a pair of AD700, which could be had for a fantastic £57 (instead of £124) if Amazon.com and .co.uk had the same pricing. I'm thinking that given the price points above a JVC HA-RX700 and Asus Xonar DGX (£60) would be a good pair and introduction to decent gaming audio - with room to upgrade the headphones in time if desired?
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Did I give you adaquate suggestions? Lol, maybe I should copy/paste this post into my own thread on gaming with headphones >_< Hey Mad, Nameless, and Purple Angel, wouldn't it be great to be paid for our research and recommendations? Or at least be sent stuff to review? Ha!


 
   
  This is very true, thanks for the fantastic help!


----------



## Wo33er

And now in two minds between the RX700 and Aurvana Live. The JVC seem like a steal for the price, but the sheer scale of the beasts is intimidating in comparison to the minimalist stylish Aurvana's, if a little on the timid side. I anticipate the sound comparisons between the two won't be too drastic, with both the JVC being favoured site wide and the CAL in MLE's OP.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





wo33er said:


> And now in two minds between the RX700 and Aurvana Live. The JVC seem like a steal for the price, but the sheer scale of the beasts is intimidating in comparison to the minimalist stylish Aurvana's, if a little on the timid side. I anticipate the sound comparisons between the two won't be too drastic, with both the JVC being favoured site wide and the CAL in MLE's OP.


 
   
  I haven't heard the RX700, but I would take the CAL over the RX900, which I have heard.


----------



## mais14

Hey guys i posted a few days ago about looking for my best option regarding MW3 for 360.  Let me say, I found out why sometimes you got to have a separate set of cans for fun and one on the side for gaming. 
AD700s w/ mixamp (Dead silence/Sitrep Pro)
So I was recommended to get the Samson SR850s but couldn't resist the pair of AD700s i saw on craigslist. So i paired the AD700s with my astro mixamp played a few rounds on lvl80 (perked up with Deadsilence and Sitrep Pro) and I am hearing the footsteps just the way I want. Audio quality and bombs going off let me raise the volume a tad bit as the footsteps are more pronounced not getting drowned out from the explosions and gun fire. The mixamp has a more smooth 360 degree virtual surround sound.
(now without Sitrep Pro)
Soundstage haha.. I know what you guys are talking about now when you talk about soundstage (I'm an audio newbie). Footstep distance increased but without Sitrep pro (enemy footsteps louder) i'm sort of confused of where these guys are (direction I know, exact position no clue). 
   
HP were comfortable but my ears started to hurt. Yes they are harsh after a decent amount of a gaming session (at least for me).
   
TurtleBeach HPX 5.1 headset w/ Tritton axpro 5.1 decoder
I was going to sell them but after putting these back on to have a comparison I will not be watching any movies, listening to music, or playing any single player games on my 360 without them. The ad700 can chill out till I decide to play multiplayer. I had the sub half way up, anymore and the sound just turned from great to crap but my ears were vibrating and simply put I will never have fun w/ the Ad700s.
   
competively footstep distance is slightly smaller but I can read peoples positions a lot better. Slight turns while playing let me know exactly where someone is (that I can hear) from the different speakers switching on.
   
My tritton axpro headset broke and i'm glad it did. They are horrible and I wished Envy had the time to hook up an HPX to the decoder and put it on his guide as its competively worthy. 5.1 is not a gimmick. I finally gamed with the ad700s which is considered the 10 of gaming and I gotta say the experience I was expecting in an audio sense was to be equivalent to "I remember my first time" and it didn't.
   
Just thought me a lesson of why theres variety and if someone like Envy or chicolum tell you to get something. Give it a try. Sorry for the long read just thought my experience would help someone.


----------



## ninjikiran

Just thought I would update my audio situation. 
   
  I tried out DHT v4 and its better than dolby headphone in preserving quality audio.    I haven't really done much positioning testing but nothing stands out as bad in a miniscule testing.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Does anyone here already have a speaker amp/receiver and want a taste of the Stax sound? This may be your chance.
   
  It's an auction, so I have no idea what the final selling price might be, but you never know how much you might be able to win it for.
   
  Everyone here probably knows how I started looking into Stax and electrostatics in general for their gaming prowess (touted by people other than MLE on these forums), and was ultimately pleased with both the sound and the comfort. Maybe someone else here can give them a try?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I haven't heard the RX700, but I would take the CAL over the RX900, which I have heard.


 
   
  Owning the RX700 and having used the CAL! for a bit I'd agree with Chico on this one. The CAL! are more comfortable for extended play. And I feel the positioning is better on the CAL! so the 3D sound is better.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Owning the RX700 and having used the CAL! for a bit I'd agree with Chico on this one. The CAL! are more comfortable for extended play. And I feel the positioning is better on the CAL! so the 3D sound is better.


 
   
  Ya, the RX900 pads are huge, cramped, and hot.  The positioning is just a bit funky and unevenly spaced on the RX900 for me.  It was a lot of work trying find the distance sounds were coming from.  The CALs soundstage sounds more spacious to me.  The pads are also smaller, roomier, and cooler.


----------



## genclaymore

You should be able to find pads that are similar shape yet do better then the default pads. Its not un-common for people to use ear pads from other headphones. I know i was originally gonna do that with my A900x pads when I first got the headphones. But then Turns out they was on the headphones wrong or turned when i was putting it on my head. which made my ears rest on the pads. But I fixed that and they havent been hurting my ears since. Other then the pads breaking in.


Nameless I hope you planning on testing them off your head first. Because that would suck if they explode as soon you place them on your head and turn them on.


----------



## Evshrug

I hate how my iPad refreshes a website tab when I look at another tab for a while. This will be like my fourth time typing this reply :/



wo33er said:


> And now in two minds between the RX700 and Aurvana Live. The JVC seem like a steal for the price, but the sheer scale of the beasts is intimidating in comparison to the minimalist stylish Aurvana's, if a little on the timid side. I anticipate the sound comparisons between the two won't be too drastic, with both the JVC being favoured site wide and the CAL in MLE's OP.




I'd say (from research) that they're both great. In short, the JVC were most often compared to the Denon DH1001 when they were first released, and the CAL! uses the same drivers as the now-discontinued Denon. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

When the JVC first started showing up (to limited availability!), a few posts were made by the early adopters asking for more reviews, as they were questioning their sanity when the JVCs seemed to perform on a level similar to headphones costing 2x and 3x as much. Here is one of those threads, I think SpacemanSpiff is a little over excited but the thread grew into something more credible:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/375575/jvc-har-x700-and-900-two-of-the-best-dynamics-am-i-nuts

Not long after, some Enterprising head-fi'ers decided that these had a lot of modding potential, and TopPop's comprehensive review and the easy-to-follow modding guide he created as a follow up impressed me enough that these were the real deal. Sorry for saying HA-RX700 before, it's the 900 I've heard, as I ended up buying TopPop's modded HA-RX900 from him. Most everyone agreed that there was an obvious "settling in" of the headphones when burned in, but TopPop's resonance-dampening with dynamat and a _little_ bit of stuffing was targeted to control the mid-bass hump and make the sound more cohesive by balancing the mids and treble. His initial review is here and the guide with pictures for the mod is linked on page four of that thread.

I had them for about a week before my best friend graduated & I gave them to him as a gift (he was a Music Ed major). A/Bing them alongside my AD700, about a month after my fiasco where I ordered the open AD700 & got the closed A700 instead (so I got to try them both out), I had to say I really liked the modded HA-RX900 for music alongside the AD700. I'm not sure if I liked one better than the other, but the JVC definitely had more body. I heard them again when I had my friend over for the 4th of July, and I still think they're good, great for the price in fact. Are they the best competitive gaming can, I don't think so, and maybe you can perform higher for your budget (these are also home-use only), but they are a great value for the price.

*Edit: Again, I have a lot of respect for Nameless and Chicolom, and even AxelCloris, and I don't disagree that the CAL! might be better for gaming, especially as I haven't tried the HA-RX900 with virtual surround gaming. The HA-RX900 I heard was supposedly better than stock because the mods targeted the midbass hump that muddied the mix a bit, all I know was that I liked them and thought them a budget wonder, and that the RX900 is reputed to have a larger soundstage than the RX700 with a more laid-back presentation. I still feel comfortable that the Q701 is better in everything, except for living frugally  *

Lol sorry, after all that I still say you're going to have to make your own choice  Now, I'm going to try out Reach with SC and see if I can't conclude my Q701 review (doesn't seem like there's a review category for it yet?!)


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, and last thing about CAL! Vs RX900 modded from me, if you think you would use the CAL! portably, then I'd suggest that as the more valuable option. Home headphones are always going to compete with home speakers.



ninjikiran said:


> I tried out DHT v4 and its better than dolby headphone in preserving quality audio. I haven't really done much positioning testing but nothing stands out as bad in a miniscule testing.




What is DHT v4 and what product offers it?

*Cybernet1000*,
We/I am not ignoring you, it's just that in my case I'm not a fan of wireless headphones, because they are limited by their bandwidth and tiny internal DACs and amps, and I just think that they are too limited by price and design constraints despite their wireless freedom. I don't even have a clue what yours sound like, so I don't know the basis to improve on, other than MLE has a nice round-up of great headphones at different prices in this thread, pick which of those sounds best to you?


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> What is DHT v4 and what product offers it?


 
  Dolby Home Theater.  Not very much uses it yet because of how new it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless its on a receiver or external device, its not applicable to me.


----------



## chicolom

Here's my review of the Audio Technica TAD500:
  www.head-fi.org/t/624612/audio-technica-ath-tad500-review-and-comparisons


----------



## MoogleDee

First off, massive props to Mad Lust Envy and to EVERYONE else who's contributed awesome stuff to this thread. I admit I didn't read it all, but I now have a clear goal in mind. Having been in the boat of being somewhat disappointed with my Astro A30s but quite content with the Mixamp, I am going to take the route of spoiling myself silly and getting some awesome cans. I'm most likely going to see if I can get my hands on a Q701 come next paycheck.
   
  Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## Evshrug

Aw YEAH! Now that's what I'm talking aboot! So Silent cinema virtual surround is MUCH more apparent in Halo Reach. I played the first level of Campaign, with lots of choppers and warthogs swooping around, early in the intro cutscene there are two choppers that fly parallel from behind you to your front, and it worked beautifully. Multiplayer SWAT was intense, but I feel like I was definitely able to get the jump on people. Also had me turn around a few times at the right moment. Reach's built in version of EAX effects helps, seems to calculate occlusion and the Doppler effect too so you get a feel for distance.

Which is just as well, because as far as I can tell, Silent cinema is just a crossover echo delayed by a certain amount defined by which DSP you have set, and a little overall EQ setting that of course doesn't adjust dynamically to help you identify distance. You can distinguish direction well once you're used to it, basically there's more echo as you go towards the back in each channel, but it definitely feels like an artificial effect. I think I like Action Game or even Drama DSP best, because there's much less echo and distance cues are left up to the game engine.

So Reach and Oblivion are awesome, Call of Duty 4 & BO are meh ok, bf3 clips are of high quality but the positioning is just "meh." I look forward to the Recon3D, that's been an hour's drive away since Friday, to arrive Tuesday so I can make a comparison, get my Mac audio working, and decide if I'm going to keep it.


----------



## ninjikiran

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Oh, and last thing about CAL! Vs RX900 modded from me, if you think you would use the CAL! portably, then I'd suggest that as the more valuable option. Home headphones are always going to compete with home speakers.
> What is DHT v4 and what product offers it?


 
   
  What @phos said.
   
  Its like Dolby Headphone, but better.  Everything else is basically an EQ, such as dialog enhancer which will make sure music doesn't go over words.
   
  http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/pc/dolby-home-theater-v4.html
   
  The specs of it shows what it does but I think most of its functionality is invisible to the user.  The whole asus phoebus driver/dolby digital utility is almost too simple.


----------



## Evshrug

ninjikiran said:


> What @phos said.
> 
> Its like Dolby Headphone, but better.  Everything else is basically an EQ, such as dialog enhancer which will make sure music doesn't go over words.
> 
> ...




Well, it took a 2nd read to separate "not much uses it yet." Hopefully some products DO start to use/include the feature soon, and headphone audio continues to grow. TBH I'll probably buy a vinyl LP turntable and complete my audio setup before I upgrade components such as my receiver, but if DHT v4 shows up in a separate processor I may jump on it.

MoogleDee,
Good for you! Yeah, at that price range, I love my Q701, but it also bears mentioning that MLE has been very enthusiastic about his 2012 Beyerdynamic DT990 32Ohm headphones for a fun sound signature. Season to taste?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd still recommend the Q701 over the DT990/32 for those of you allergic to treble peaks. It still sounds like a 990, despite it behaving better than the 600ohm on less than powerful sources/equipment.

edit: Now that I have spent more time with it, the treble is sounding a lot like the 600ohms, so now it's like they sound 99% alike. I dunno why the first day it felt smoother. Not even new toy syndrome. I KNOW what the DT990 sounds like, and this one surely sounded a bit warmer than they do now.

I'm just mad right now. Been waiting for my E17, which I missed two deliveries of, due to being at work. I scheduled for today, and the mail still hasn't arrived, nor do I think it will, due to the damn storm down here in Florida.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What's left in the upper regions regarding gaming besides HD 800 and T1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stax? LCD-6? Shure 1840? I bet the SRH-1840 would be like a K701 on steroids.

edit: I knew it...



I can't justify spending $700 on an analytical can. I LOVE their looks though.


----------



## ZeeBAD

ok so guys help here astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
  which one of these two will give me crystal clear sound in music and gaming with surround audio ?.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad: LCD-2 has no good soundstage for gaming. The HE-500 has more but I would take a T90 for gaming even when the T90 can't beat the HE-500 in music. Now this means, T1, HD800. Stax are way out of my mind, I'd rather save up for speakers. 

 What's left? HD 800 and the Shures. I should try the Shures just for fun, I don't think they'll be better than the T90. Do you know about their potential? HD 800 is a bit too much for gaming alone. If I spent 1000€ they should be the one for all which I doubt. Who knows though. 
   
   
  Quote: 





zeebad said:


> ok so guys help here astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
> which one of these two will give me crystal clear sound in music and gaming with surround audio ?.


 
  are you joking?


----------



## Rebel975

So the T90 is definitely better than the HE-500 as far as gaming is concerned?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Hey Y'all. In the market for some decent closed back headphones and how is the Fiio E7 DAC/amp? I was thinking the DT770 250 Ohm + E7 or my O2 Amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you travel through the land in Skyrim (skyrim has well recorded samples) for instance you have a better sense of the space. You can test with the waterfalls as well, they sound fresher, more realistic as if you could put your hand into it. 
   
  Generally it's the soundstage (3D), spaciousness, imaging, airyness that makes the T90 the better gaming headphone. For music though I prefer the HE-500.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ninja, the E7 is a decent dac, but the amp is pretty weak, and definitely not for 250ohm.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ninja, the E7 is a decent dac, but the amp is pretty weak, and definitely not for 250ohm.


 

 I have the Q701 as well. I guess I don't need another amp yet but I was thinking something for my wife's ear buds but she probably won't need it either. Yeah I just really want some good gaming headphones with closed backs to match these open backs. Still can't decide on a SC though.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> If you travel through the land in Skyrim (skyrim has well recorded samples) for instance you have a better sense of the space. You can test with the waterfalls as well, they sound fresher, more realistic as if you could put your hand into it.
> 
> Generally it's the soundstage (3D), spaciousness, imaging, airyness that makes the T90 the better gaming headphone. For music though I prefer the HE-500.


 
   
   
  I may sell my HE-500's and buy a pair of T90's. I hardly ever listen to music on headphones these days.


----------



## ZeeBAD

what i am joking about i am just ask cause really i am so dumb when it comes to sound


----------



## ZeeBAD

again the astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
 which one of these two will give me crystal clear surround sound at gaming adn music ?.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> again the astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
> which one of these two will give me crystal clear surround sound at gaming adn music ?.


 
   

 Personally, I would go for the D7000. The A50's won't be able to touch it in the bass department, and the build quality of the headphones should be miles apart. Besides, wood is classy.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> again the astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
> which one of these two will give me crystal clear surround sound at gaming adn music ?.


 

 a50s will give your crystal clear garbage. You compared crap headsets cans to high quality expensive cans. D7000 any day of the week.
   
  Edit: D7000 are very high quality cans.
   
  Any word on some decent closed back headphones? I think we should add a closed/open section so we all know which phones are which on a quick reference. (Without looking at pics but reading the upper list.)


----------



## ZeeBAD

sorry i cant help you guys i hoped that you can help me cause you know all the media when it comes to gaming headset and i was looking for very high quality 7.1 gaming headset like tehrazer timat and the astro a50 but when i asked mud last he said that he dont like surrond headset cause he hate the complicated equalizer and these stuff so he said to me to buy normal high quality headphones with mix amp that will blow away these razer or astro so i am looking for help to buy headphones that will give me crystal clear surronded sound espcially in gaming and music


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I may sell my HE-500's and buy a pair of T90's. I hardly ever listen to music on headphones these days.


 
   
  I wouldn't do that, some day you will listen to music again. Even next week. 
   
  Of course I can't decide for your wallet. You might as well get a good offer on T1 or HD800 if you're going all the way. However I don't regard twice the price as adequate but we all know how climbing to the top is.


----------



## hoboX10

I searched a couple terms in the thread and I'm pretty sure nobody has even mentioned the Sony MDR-V900HD headphones. I have heard absolutely amazing things about these headphones from a couple people that actually own them, but never had a chance to test them out myself. Apparently there's a "Pro" version of these too, the Sony MDR-7509HD headphones too, but I don't know what the difference would actually be between the two.
   
  Does ANYONE have any experience with either of these? I would really love some solid feedback on them as it's hard to find any real input from people. Especially if someone could compare them to some of the headphones in the first post of this thread.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I wouldn't do that, some day you will listen to music again. Even next week.
> 
> Of course I can't decide for your wallet. You might as well get a good offer on T1 or HD800 if you're going all the way. However I don't regard twice the price as adequate but we all know how climbing to the top is.


 
   
   
  Well, I've just stopped listening to music on my headphones lately (and in general), but when I do listen I'm tending to use my speakers. As far as the T1 goes, I really don't like closed headphones. And the HD800's are like $1,500 (maybe 11-$1200 used?). The T90's are only $650 new, and it sounds like they'd be way better for gaming. Plus they should weigh less and be more comfortable than the HE-500's.
   
  I'm just curious about how they compare to something like the Q701 for all out gaming headphones. Maybe downsizing to a Q701/AD700 and focusing more on my speaker system is what I ultimately should do. Have a speaker system for the fun factor and something like a Q701 or AD700 (AD900?) for competitive sound whoring.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> again the astro a50 with its built in mixamp 5.8 or denon d7000 with astro mix amp pro.
> which one of these two will give me crystal clear surround sound at gaming adn music ?.


 
   
   
  You ask as if they they cost even close to the same amount.  The D7000 route will run you about $400 more then just buying the A50s.  I'm not recommending the A50s, I'm just saying they're in completely different price brackets.
   
  Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I have the Q701 as well. I guess I don't need another amp yet but I was thinking something for my wife's ear buds but she probably won't need it either. Yeah I just really want some good gaming headphones with closed backs to match these open backs. Still can't decide on a SC though.


 
   
  AKG K550  and Audio Technica A900x are both supposed to have good soundstage.
   
  I've seen the K550 described as a closed Q701.  FYI closed headphones that have big soundstages, usually don't have the best isolation.


----------



## Eric_C

ninja: FWIW I tried K550 with music a few times (in a store), and I think it really is an excellent headphone. Comfy, classy looks, good build quality, isolated well enough, and the sound felt quite clear, evenly presented and uncoloured. Note that I'm not good at spotting the "weird resonance" in closed headphones as some of my friends are, so perhaps it was there and I did not notice it.
   
  It is highly regarded by Tyll, though: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone


----------



## HalidePisces

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> a50s will give your crystal clear garbage. You compared crap headsets cans to high quality expensive cans. D7000 any day of the week.
> 
> Edit: D7000 are very high quality cans.
> 
> Any word on some decent closed back headphones? I think we should add a closed/open section so we all know which phones are which on a quick reference. (Without looking at pics but reading the upper list.)


 
  Yeah, sorting by closed/open would be very helpful. I'm currently looking for a nice open headphone for the soundstage, but sometimes pictures can be deceiving especially to the untrained eye. I've got around 150 USD to spend and the AD700 seems like the way to go. Anyone have any other suggestions at that price range?
   
  Quote: 





zeebad said:


> sorry i cant help you guys i hoped that you can help me cause you know all the media when it comes to gaming headset and i was looking for very high quality 7.1 gaming headset like tehrazer timat and the astro a50 but when i asked mud last he said that he dont like surrond headset cause he hate the complicated equalizer and these stuff so he said to me to buy normal high quality headphones with mix amp that will blow away these razer or astro so i am looking for help to buy headphones that will give me crystal clear surronded sound espcially in gaming and music


 
  People will likely recommend a dedicated headphone with a separate microphone attached. If you must have an all-in-one solution that is the headset, there's a few recommendations on the first post. Besides that, the Cyborg F.R.E.Q. 5 looks interesting. But it's only become recently available outside its manufacturer's store, so there are only a few reviews of it and none of them are in-depth. It would be nice if someone here reviewed it.


----------



## ZeeBAD

i just wanna 7.1 gaming headset thats all i have few in mind like razer timat and astro a50 i dont care if i bought headphone with separate microphone i just wanna the best gaming 7.1 headset thats all when i asked mud last he said that headphone with max amp will be far more perfect than soundcard and gaming headset thats all i wanna know.
  i just wanna someone to guide me to go with 7.1 like astro a50 and razer timate or buy normal headphone tha mud last recommended in his guide and MixAmp thats all i want the best solution not the easy 1 cause for me i will just go with somthing like astro a50 and i will sleep well .


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You ask as if they they cost even close to the same amount.  The D7000 route will run you about $400 more then just buying the A50s.  I'm not recommending the A50s, I'm just saying they're in completely different price brackets.
> 
> 
> AKG K550  and Audio Technica A900x are both supposed to have good soundstage.
> ...


 
   
  i just want the best i dont care about money


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Yeah, sorting by closed/open would be very helpful. I'm currently looking for a nice open headphone for the soundstage, but sometimes pictures can be deceiving especially to the untrained eye. I've got around 150 USD to spend and the AD700 seems like the way to go. Anyone have any other suggestions at that price range?
> 
> People will likely recommend a dedicated headphone with a separate microphone attached. If you must have an all-in-one solution that is the headset, there's a few recommendations on the first post. Besides that, the Cyborg F.R.E.Q. 5 looks interesting. But it's only become recently available outside its manufacturer's store, so there are only a few reviews of it and none of them are in-depth. It would be nice if someone here reviewed it.


 
   
 i just wanna 7.1 gaming headset thats all i have few in mind like razer timat and astro a50 i dont care if i bought headphone with separate microphone i just wanna the best gaming 7.1 headset thats all when i asked mud last he said that headphone with max amp will be far more perfect than soundcard and gaming headset thats all i wanna know.
 i just wanna someone to guide me to go with 7.1 like astro a50 and razer timate or buy normal headphone tha mud last recommended in his guide and MixAmp thats all i want the best solution not the easy 1 cause for me i will just go with somthing like astro a50 and i will sleep well .


----------



## Eric_C

ZeeBAD: dude, it's really hard to follow your thoughts.
   
  If you want the best (according to MLE's guide) it's probably the D7000 I think everyone here is trying to talk to you to check that you're making the *right choice*, but you don't really seem interested in the details, so...
  Just buy the D7000 and a MixAmp and a modmic.
   
  If you find out later that your soundcard can't do 5.1 or 7.1, buy a soundcard.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> If you must have an all-in-one solution that is the headset, there's a few recommendations on the first post. Besides that, the Cyborg F.R.E.Q. 5 looks interesting. But it's only become recently available outside its manufacturer's store, so there are only a few reviews of it and none of them are in-depth. It would be nice if someone here reviewed it.


 
   
  Ya, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
   
  Mad Catz owns Tritton.  Tritton also makes headsets with 50mm drivers.  I wonder where THIS headset's 50mm drivers came from??
   
  Cyborg makes gaming mice and keyboards, and clearly they used their experience designing those to design this headset.  Should translate well.
   
  Although, it IS using _"the highest quality drivers available for use in commercial headsets"_.  Oh really?  What about the MMX300 and PC360.  They should have asteriked that to say *commercial headsets made by Tritton.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ZeeBAD: dude, it's really hard to follow your thoughts.
> 
> If you want the best (according to MLE's guide) it's probably the D7000 I think everyone here is trying to talk to you to check that you're making the *right choice*, but you don't really seem interested in the details, so...
> Just buy the D7000 and a MixAmp and a modmic.


 
   
  D7000 impulse buys FTW !


----------



## Eric_C

OK semi-serious question: where to buy D7k? HeadRoom and Amazon are out of stock.
   
  ZeeBAD: sorry, the D7000 might be unavailable. I guess you should buy a HD800 and a Woo Audio amp to smoothen out the highs.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> i just wanna 7.1 gaming headset thats all i have few in mind like razer timat and astro a50 i dont care if i bought headphone with separate microphone i just wanna the best gaming 7.1 headset thats all when i asked mud last he said that headphone with max amp will be far more perfect than soundcard and gaming headset thats all i wanna know.
> i just wanna someone to guide me to go with 7.1 like astro a50 and razer timate or buy normal headphone tha mud last recommended in his guide and MixAmp thats all i want the best solution not the easy 1 cause for me i will just go with somthing like astro a50 and i will sleep well .


 
   
  Also, for clarification, the A50 is not a 7.1 headset. It's an A40 with the mixamp built in. It's stereo. The mixamp is what gives the stereo headsets surround sound. Hopefully that clears a little confusion for you.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ZeeBAD: dude, it's really hard to follow your thoughts.
> 
> If you want the best (according to MLE's guide) it's probably the D7000 I think everyone here is trying to talk to you to check that you're making the *right choice*, but you don't really seem interested in the details, so...
> Just buy the D7000 and a MixAmp and a modmic.
> ...


 
  dear eric thanks for your reply
  i will tell why its so hard to follow my thougts cause i really dont know any thing about these sound stuff i dont know the good  stuff from bad one whats right and whats wrong beleive me i dont know **** about these headphones and sound systems.
  dude all i wanna know what to do i have two choices the first is to go with the article buy one of these headphones and one of these mixamps , second buy razer timat or astro a50 with soundcard.
  i am not interested in details cause i dont know anything really anything at all i just wanna know what to do.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> i just wanna 7.1 gaming headset thats all i have few in mind like razer timat and astro a50 i dont care if i bought headphone with separate microphone i just wanna the best gaming 7.1 headset thats all when i asked mud last he said that headphone with max amp will be far more perfect than soundcard and gaming headset thats all i wanna know.
> i just wanna someone to guide me to go with 7.1 like astro a50 and razer timate or buy normal headphone tha mud last recommended in his guide and MixAmp thats all i want the best solution not the easy 1 cause for me i will just go with somthing like astro a50 and i will sleep well .


 
   
  Not for PC gaming. The Mixamp is a console gaming device first and foremost. For PC gaming, a sound card offers more features and sound quality at less cost.
   
  If you want the best from a competitive standpoint...I'd say Stax, but their hardware is pretty damn expensive for something you'd only use for gaming, even the cheaper Lambda setups.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Also, for clarification, the A50 is not a 7.1 headset. It's an A40 with the mixamp built in. It's stereo. The mixamp is what gives the stereo headsets surround sound. Hopefully that clears a little confusion for you.


 
  Thanks Axel yeah thats information i really need it 
  another question does the mixamp consider as soundcard or what ? for example if i bought hd800 and MIxamp that will give surrounded sound right so if i bought the astro a5o with its built in mix amp and sound card that will give me the same result or not ?


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> OK semi-serious question: where to buy D7k? HeadRoom and Amazon are out of stock.
> 
> ZeeBAD: sorry, the D7000 might be unavailable. I guess you should buy a HD800 and a Woo Audio amp to smoothen out the highs.


 
  For sale section.  They've been discontinued.


----------



## HalidePisces

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> dear eric thanks for your reply
> i will tell why its so hard to follow my thougts cause i really dont know any thing about these sound stuff i dont know the good  stuff from bad one whats right and whats wrong beleive me i dont know **** about these headphones and sound systems.
> dude all i wanna know what to do i have two choices the first is to go with the article buy one of these headphones and one of these mixamps , second buy razer timat or astro a50 with soundcard.
> i am not interested in details cause i dont know anything really anything at all i just wanna know what to do.


 

 I think the reason it is so hard to follow your thoughts is because from your typing, English is probably not your first language. Help us by clearly answering the following questions...
   
  1. You have mentioned a sound card in your earlier post. Are you using this for gaming on both PC and console? What kind of games do you play?
   
  2. Are you going to use this headset (or headphone + microphone) to listen to music outside of games?
   
  3. How much money are you willing to spend?
   
  4. It seems 7.1 headphone/headset is the most important thing to you. It doesn't matter if it is a headset or a headphone with a microphone. Is this correct or will non-7.1 suffice?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Mad: LCD-2 has no good soundstage for gaming. The HE-500 has more but I would take a T90 for gaming even when the T90 can't beat the HE-500 in music. Now this means, T1, HD800. Stax are way out of my mind, I'd rather save up for speakers.
> 
> What's left? HD 800 and the Shures. I should try the Shures just for fun, I don't think they'll be better than the T90. Do you know about their potential? HD 800 is a bit too much for gaming alone. If I spent 1000€ they should be the one for all which I doubt. Who knows though.


 
   
  If you're even considering the non-T50RP orthos, the T1, and the HD800, you can certainly _afford_ a Stax setup. It'll have to be Lambda-series, not the SR-007 or SR-009, but you can afford it. (Seriously, why do the Lambdas hardly get any respect outside of the Stax Mafia?)
   
  There must be some other reason why you won't consider them.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> Thanks Axel yeah thats information i really need it
> another question does the mixamp consider as soundcard or what ? for example if i bought hd800 and MIxamp that will give surrounded sound right so if i bought the astro a5o with its built in mix amp and sound card that will give me the same result or not ?


 
   
  The Mixamp is a DSP (Digital Sound Processor). It applies filters and sound processing to digital signals. You'll still need a sound card with a Mixamp. The Mixamp is mainly designed for consoles, but can be used with a PC, as I use it with my laptop. But you'll need a sound card that can output optical to take full advantage of it. And if you're playing on a desktop computer, I'm with Nameless in the fact that a good sound card can trump the Mixamp any day. With a sound card that can do surround DSP I feel the A50s are overkill. Personally, having used my friend's A40 for an afternoon, I feel there are better headphones out there for the money.
   
  tl;dr, with a PC, a sound card should be used. On a console, the mixamp or similar DSP should be used.


----------



## Eric_C

ZeeBAD: Please don't take this as an insult, but your thoughts are hard to follow because you're not breaking them up into sentences and paragraphs. It's just hard to read. It's not about whether you know a lot.
   
  Also: the details matter for gaming headphone setups. They matter A LOT. Let me give you an example.
   
  One of the things you're considering is a D7000 for gaming. You want to chat too, so you'll need a mic. That's the easy part. Here's where the details start to matter:

 PC, Xbox, or PS3? Or 2 of the above? Or all 3? Setting up voice chat for Xbox and PS3 is more complex with a D7000, and the setup is different for each console. (Different versions of the Xbox may also affect the setup)
 You'll need a virtual surround sound device. MixAmp? Or MixAmp 5.8 for wireless? But the 5.8 doesn't have some input plugs that the wired MixAmp does. If you get the wired MixAmp, how far will you sit from the console? You'll need to power the wired MixAmp by USB or by battery (I think).
 Virtual surround for PC begins with the right sound card. Your sound card may not be able to process a 5.1 or 7.1 signal. No, buying a MixAmp will not fix that. So what sound card do you have? Have you checked with people like Nameless whether this sound card can do surround sound?
 Does the D7000 need an amp? I can't answer that. What I can tell you is the D7000 has low impedance and high sensitivity; this means that if you amp it, you will need an amp that delivers high current. This is a different kind of amp than the ones you would pick for a Q701 or Beyer 880 or Sennheiser HD 600--those headphones will benefit more from an amp that delivers high voltage instead.


----------



## hoboX10

So am I not supposed to ask questions about other headsets here or did everyone just totally ignore me.


----------



## Evshrug

ninjasushi2 said:


> Hey Y'all. In the market for some decent closed back headphones and how is the Fiio E7 DAC/amp? I was thinking the DT770 250 Ohm + E7 or my O2 Amp.




Yeah, someone else said the DAC in the E7 is alright, but the amp basically scores as well as the E6. If you already have an O2, why the heck use another amp?


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I think the reason it is so hard to follow your thoughts is because from your typing, English is probably not your first language. Help us by clearly answering the following questions...
> 
> 1. You have mentioned a sound card in your earlier post. Are you using this for gaming on both PC and console? What kind of games do you play?
> 
> ...


 
  sorry for my bad english i know i am driving you crazy but bare with me 
   
  1.I am using this for pc gaming i dont have console and , i play first and third person shooter games real-time strategy and some online games like wow and diablo
   
  2.No i wanna use these headset only for the pc i just wanna know if i listened to music will give me good sound quality
   
  3.350$ max 400$
   
  4.The only two headstes that i know is the astro a50 and the razer timat and both of them are 7.1 so i thought that only the 7.1 and the 5.1 headsets are the only one that gives you surrounded sound am i right or wrong.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





hobox10 said:


> So am I not supposed to ask questions about other headsets here or did everyone just totally ignore me.


 
  I've never heard of the Sony headphones you're talking about. Other than your friends' recommendations, is there any reason you're keen on them for gaming?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hobox10 said:


> I searched a couple terms in the thread and I'm pretty sure nobody has even mentioned the Sony MDR-V900HD headphones. I have heard absolutely amazing things about these headphones from a couple people that actually own them, but never had a chance to test them out myself. Apparently there's a "Pro" version of these too, the Sony MDR-7509HD headphones too, but I don't know what the difference would actually be between the two.
> 
> Does ANYONE have any experience with either of these? I would really love some solid feedback on them as it's hard to find any real input from people. Especially if someone could compare them to some of the headphones in the first post of this thread.


 
   
  Quote: 





hobox10 said:


> So am I not supposed to ask questions about other headsets here or did everyone just totally ignore me.


 
   
   
  I'm not familiar with the Sony V900, and I don't think many of the other frequenters of this thread are either.  You are probably right that they haven't been mentioned.
   
  I can see they are _closed _studio monitoring headphones, which _traditionally _have drawbacks for gaming.  Mainly being poor soundstage and subpar positioning compared to open headphones.  I can't speak for these Sony's though. 
   
  Are you looking at them because they were specifically recommend for gaming (and had strengths such as large soundstage and good positioning), or just because you know people who recommend them in general?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lol at the fact that you think you can get the D7000 for anything less than maybe $550 USED.

The A50 is NOT a 7.1 headset. It is a stereo headset with the built in Mixamp that virtualizes the sound into 7.1 (5.1 really, but I'll let Astro's false advertising slide, as Dolby Headphone isn't limited to speaker placement).

Buy a good soundcard like the Asus Essence STX, and the Beyerdynamic MMX300 or Sennheiser PC360. There. A quality setup for PC.

Your posts are like a foreign language to me. Very hard to understand.


Also to everyone else: I've mentioned this several times. If they aren't on the first post, I have NOT personally heard them, or didn't find them worth talking about. So anyone who wants to ask me about headphones that aren't on my guide, they'll get the same exact answer: I haven't heard them, and can't form any opinion on them based on hearsay, or I have heard them but find them to not work well for gaming whatsoever. I get so many private messages asking me about headphone A or headphone B. I wanna save you all the time, by saying don't ask me about headphones that aren't on my guide.

The MMX300 is an exception, because they are basically DT770s with a mic, and both DT770s I have used do positioning and soundstage real well, despite them being overly bassy, which I know the MMX300 isn't. If I was in the market for a headset, the MMX300 would be on the top of my list.


----------



## HalidePisces

Quote: 





hobox10 said:


> So am I not supposed to ask questions about other headsets here or did everyone just totally ignore me.


 

 It probably got lost in the back-to-back posting. Or those following this thread don't have one. I've got a MDR-XD200, but I don't know how it'd compare with a MDR-V900HD. You might want to create a thread in the headphone section about the Sony MDR-V900HD. It might attract more responses.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> sorry for my bad english i know i am driving you crazy but bare with me
> 
> 1.I am using this for pc gaming i dont have console and , i play first and third person shooter games real-time strategy and some online games like wow and diablo


 
   
  Check your soundcard in NamelessPFG's thread before you go any further.
   
   


> 3.350$ max 400$


 
   
   
  Denon D7000 and HD800 are out of your budget.
   
   
   


> 4.The only two headstes that i know is the astro a50 and the razer timat and both of them are 7.1 so i thought that only the 7.1 and the 5.1 headsets are the only one that gives you surrounded sound am i right or wrong.


 
   
  No, completely wrong. Astro A50 is 5.1, not 7.1, and it is actually virtual surround. It has the Astro MixAmp inside the headphones; this entire thread is about using the external MixAmp (or similar product) with other headphones. Tiamat is "true" 7.1 surround, but as has been stated many times in this thread, "true" surround headphones are usually worse than normal 2.0 headphones in sound quality, and worse than MixAmp + good 2.0 headphones for surround sound.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ZeeBAD: Please don't take this as an insult, but your thoughts are hard to follow because you're not breaking them up into sentences and paragraphs. It's just hard to read. It's not about whether you know a lot.
> 
> Also: the details matter for gaming headphone setups. They matter A LOT. Let me give you an example.
> 
> ...


 
  Ok  i know that i am driving you crazy but bare with me 
   
1.I want headset (headphone + mic) cause i use skype and i need it for chat also
2.I need it for PC i dont have console
3.I need sound card cause its for pc but i really dont know that mixamp was for consoles
4.I need headset and i dont know the good headsets from the bad 1


----------



## Eric_C

I responded to your points in a later post. Read that instead.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> Ok  i know that i am driving you crazy but bare with me
> 
> 1.I want headset (headphone + mic) cause i use skype and i need it for chat also
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Regarding the A50s:  Why would you want your Dolby Headphone surround processing locked away in ONE headset?
   
  The A50 is just a single stereo headsets swallowing up the mixamp 5.8 features (the mixamp is astro's best product).  I'd rather buy the A40 + mixamp (with extra wires) to not have the mixamp I payed for locked inside my headset with no way to separate them.
   
  I guess if you got tired of the A50 and wanted to upgrade to nicer headphones, you could get another Rx unit for $60 and then you'd have a mixamp 5.8.  But good luck selling your A50 without the Tx transmitter.  It's worthless and unusable without the Tx, and the Tx isn't available to buy.


----------



## Evshrug

hobox10 said:


> So am I not supposed to ask questions about other headsets here or did everyone just totally ignore me.



Like others have said, haven't heard those Sony's, they are totally unknown to me. With this post however, you make me wonder: do I owe you money or something?

ZeeBAD,
headsets are OK, especially if you just want a one-piece solution. It's just that a few of us other gamers have tried one or more gaming headsets in the past, and felt disappointed in sound quality for the cost, among other things. Buying a super-über cheap "lapel mic" from China is an easy solution to be able to chat with any headphone, and that lets you get ultimate sound while getting a better value for your budget. You can use a "lapel mic" or Ant Lion's mod mic to chat during games, Skype, Ventrillo, whatever 

I love my AKG Q701 headphones, lapel mics I bought on Amazon for $3.50 USA dollars (it was a 3-pack), and I have a thing to calculate Virtual surround sound (binaural sound) for my games. MLE's headset suggestions are good for a simpler setup. If you buy a nice sound card with the rest of your budget, you will have a great gaming experience. Good Luck!


----------



## ZeeBAD

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Like others have said, haven't heard those Sony's, they are totally unknown to me. With this post however, you make me wonder: do I owe you money or something?
> ZeeBAD,
> headsets are OK, especially if you just want a one-piece solution. It's just that a few of us other gamers have tried one or more gaming headsets in the past, and felt disappointed in sound quality for the cost, among other things. Buying a super-über cheap "lapel mic" from China is an easy solution to be able to chat with any headphone, and that lets you get ultimate sound while getting a better value for your budget. You can use a "lapel mic" or Ant Lion's mod mic to chat during games, Skype, Ventrillo, whatever
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks
   
  Man you just dont understand i am a guy that dont know any thing about the sound stuff so i went to search online for gaming headset and all i get was little results like astro a50 and a40 , razer timat razer megaldon these are 5.1 and this is 7.1 and when you search for these headsets and read you feel like WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW I want One of those so i came here to ask experinced people like you but i caused so many troubles for the guys here that they dont even wanna see my name again on any post .
  By the way Headfi summer guide recommend three gaming headstes Astro A30 , sennheiser pc 360 and Beyerdynamic mmx 300.
  So please recommend for me sound card for gaming ?
  Please recommend some headphones for me also.
  thanks again


----------



## hoboX10

Interesting that they aren't that well known, they seem to be the most faked headphones I've ever seen which would make me thing they had a large market.
   
  Also I want to make it clear I wasn't attacking or being rude about asking if I was being ignored, I just wanted to be sure I wasn't actually posting where I shouldn't be. And @Mad Lust Envy if your post was directed at me I was asking the general audience here not just you, I know you don't have access to every headphone in existence (duh lol)
   
  What do you mean Evshrug?
   
   
   
  Well I've heard from a few people that the sound accuracy is unmatched at the price point the MDR-V900HD's are at (~$170) and that with a proper sound card, like the Asus Sonar ones that have Dolby Headphone built-in, it will make the positioning as great as any other headphones. While they don't game and didn't say they would be great for it, they said they would probably be the best bet for anything audio-related unless I got into the $600+ range, which I wouldn't even go near. It was also mentioned that it was the closed style of them that gave it such a great experience, the extreme clarity of the sound made the positioning as great as it was.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio

Go there, they can help you figure out what soundcard would be best for you.

I assume something simple to use would be best...

Hobo, it was directed to ZeeBAD.


----------



## hoboX10

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> So please recommend for me sound card for gaming ?
> 
> thanks again


 

 If you don't have any restrictions in price
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132010
   
  Is supposed to be an AMAZING sound card. Just look at the reviews, people are raving about it and I've watched a few video reviews. If you have the cash, it looks like the thing to get. Just make sure you have an open PCI-E 1X slot open on your motherboard. If you don't know if you do, find someone who can check for you. If you only have a regular PCI slot open, they have PCI options available too.
   
  If you don't want to drop that much money
   
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006
   
  Is supposed to be nearly as good too, just not as many extra features.


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If you're even considering the non-T50RP orthos, the T1, and the HD800, you can certainly _afford_ a Stax setup. It'll have to be Lambda-series, not the SR-007 or SR-009, but you can afford it. (Seriously, why do the Lambdas hardly get any respect outside of the Stax Mafia?)
> 
> There must be some other reason why you won't consider them.


 
   
  A lot of people think Lamdas are ugly.  Personally I'm into the look.  For a while now I've been on and off eyeing the Stax SRS-2170, which is the SR-207 and the SRM-252S, pretty cheap combo.  
   
  By the way, why is it that you've been looking to change your set up?  If you want to get rid of the big amp maybe take a look at Emotiva's mini amp?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hobox10 said:


> Well I've heard from a few people that the *sound accuracy is unmatched at the price point *the MDR-V900HD's are at (~$170) and that with a proper sound card, like the Asus Sonar ones that have Dolby Headphone built-in,* it will make the positioning as great as any other headphones*. While they don't game and didn't say they would be great for it, they said they would probably be the best bet for anything audio-related unless I got into the $600+ range, which I wouldn't even go near. It was also mentioned that it was* the closed style of them that gave it such a great experience, the extreme clarity of the sound made the positioning as great as it was.*


 
   
  "Sound accuracy" is a pretty vague term.  While it's true that dolby headphone improves pretty much any headphone, it doesn't necessarily make any headphone great.  Certain headphones improve more than others, and have more potential to be great.
   
  Saying the Sony's are "the best bet for anything audio-related unless I got into the $600+ range" again is a pretty generalized statement. 
   
  Sorry if it sounds like I'm nitpicking, but just because a headphone is good at one thing doesn't mean it will be good for gaming.  It doesn't even mean it will be good for different _genres _of music (A lot of people on head-fi have different pairs of headphones for different genres of music).  There are a lot of aspects to sound in headphones. 
   
  "Extreme clarity of sound" doesn't mean good positioning (although they're sort of related).
   
  It might help to read up on the differences between closed and open headphones, and what their strengths and weaknesses are.  Also "soundstage" and "imaging/positioning".


----------



## hoboX10

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> "Sound accuracy" is a pretty vague term.  While it's true that dolby headphone improves pretty much any headphone, it doesn't necessarily make any headphone great.  Certain headphones improve more than others.
> 
> Saying the Sony's are "the best bet for anything audio-related unless I got into the $600+ range" again is a pretty generalized statement.
> 
> ...


 

 Hm I'll look into that too but I don't think they meant it like that. I took it as independently hearing each channel, almost feeling where it was coming from.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





phos said:


> A lot of people think Lamdas are ugly.  Personally I'm into the look.  For a while now I've been on and off eyeing the Stax SRS-2170, which is the SR-207 and the SRM-252S, pretty cheap combo.
> 
> By the way, why is it that you've been looking to change your set up?  If you want to get rid of the big amp maybe take a look at Emotiva's mini amp?


 
   
  I actually think Lambdas are ugly too...except that is completely irrelevant when they sound so good and are more comfortable than anything else I've worn. Function over form is what I live by.
   
  As for changing my setup, that's partly about learning more about Stax and electrostatics in general through first-hand experience, and partly about wanting a dual-bias amp that can drive both Normal bias and Pro bias sources. Unfortunately, getting a Pro bias SRD-7 variant is generally expensive enough to the point where you might as well buy a proper amp like an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro, and I don't know how I'd go about modding one of the SRD-7/SB's sockets to provide Pro bias while the other remains Normal bias.


----------



## Dawico

Hi all, first things first I'd like to say "awesome thread", been reading so much on this forum that for an audio rookie it's quite mind blowing. I've been doing a bunch of research on this and other sites but have finally figured i'd do a post of my own so I could give some of my own details.
   
  I recently got a new computer (which is pretty much used for gaming) but never really put much thought into the audio side of things. Howver the headset I had been using was getting pretty tattered and I figured it was time for a new one (old set were some Sennheiser's that I got on special from JB hifi for $79 marked down from $139 about 10 years ago becuase a new model was coming out). Obviously things have changed a fair bit since then. After reading some reviews (without actually finding a proper audio forum like this) I purchased Corsair's new vengeance 1500 headset. Now it sounded good (to an audio rookie like myself anyway) but they crushed my head even at max size and after leaving them on a tissue box for ages. So I sold them to a mate with a smaller head who wanted new a headset. I then stupidly purchased some turtle beach z6a's which have been completely crap. Have owned them for about 3 monthes and the plastic they are made of is cracking and falling apart in about 5 different places and although they fitted better they still weren't comfortable. I'd return them but I got them from america and turtle beach australia doesn't want anything to do with me after contacting them. Long story short they're **** and i'm moving on. After doing a fair bit of reading it's starting to look like i'm better off getting a new headset and a sound card that'll do them justice.
   
  At the moment i've been using my onboard sound from my Asus pz68-v pro motherboard:
   
  Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
 - Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
  
*Audio Feature :*
 - Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound
 - Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection 
 - DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC 
 - Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
   
  But I'm thinking of buying myself something like the xonar essence stx. Basically it all boils down to two questions for me
   
  1: What is a good headset for someone with a really big head to get (I stress very big head)? several ppl have told me sennheiser pc 350 or 360 but i've also read in other places they crush bigger heads so i'm not sure. The headset is mostly for gaming and watching movies/tv on my computer. Obviously i'm not a total audiophile I just want good sound so i'm happy to go with most brands as long as they're big enough to fit comfortably. Also being a gamer i'm looking at the set's with microphones.
   
  2: If my onboard sound isn't good enough to do these headsets justice what is the best option for a sound card? The stx seemed like a good option but if I can go cheaper and get similar results without the bells and whistles that's great.
   
  Obviously the cheaper the better but i'm looking at spending about $300 all up (headset and card) but could be convinced to go up to the $400 mark if it means i'll finally get headphones that fit comfortably on my big boof head.
  
   
  Thanks for any help and advice you'll have my eternal gratitude if I can finally get past this headset rollacoaster i've been on.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dawico said:


> 1: What is a good headset for someone with a* really big head *to get* (I stress very big head)*? several ppl have told me sennheiser pc 350 or 360 but i've also read in other places they crush bigger heads so i'm not sure. .


 
   
  I think MLE might be the expert on this, I remember him saying he has a big head.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   




   
  Also keep in mind, a mic + any pair of headphones = headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Beyers are comfy for big heads.

edit: I don't know how people can own so many headphones. I am in love with both the DT990 and HE-400. I feel like I'm cheating on the other one when I wear one. I can understand one closed, one open, one portable, one iem... but multiple headphones that you'd use for the same purpose? 

I don't wanna give the DT990 up. I want it. But I look at the HE-400, and I wanna wear it. Then when I wear the HE-400, and I see the DT990 and wanna wear it. What. This is evil.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Didn't MLE try Headzone for a while? Was it beyond way more than quite superior to the Mixamp? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If you're even considering the non-T50RP orthos, the T1, and the HD800, you can certainly _afford_ a Stax setup. It'll have to be Lambda-series, not the SR-007 or SR-009, but you can afford it. (Seriously, why do the Lambdas hardly get any respect outside of the Stax Mafia?)
> 
> There must be some other reason why you won't consider them.


 
   
  The thing is, I have 0 experience with STAX and can't put or place them between other headphones in my personal ranking, not even estimate. It's hard to find a place to listen to them as well.
   
  Which set or combo are you referring out of this list? http://www.fl-electronic.de/neuklang/stax.html#preise


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You ask as if they they cost even close to the same amount.  The D7000 route will run you about $400 more then just buying the A50s.  I'm not recommending the A50s, I'm just saying they're in completely different price brackets.
> 
> 
> AKG K550  and Audio Technica A900x are both supposed to have good soundstage.
> ...


 
  Thanks. I should rephrase that I guess. Don't need a big sound stage but decent isolation as my wife watches TV two feet away from my head.
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ninja: FWIW I tried K550 with music a few times (in a store), and I think it really is an excellent headphone. Comfy, classy looks, good build quality, isolated well enough, and the sound felt quite clear, evenly presented and uncoloured. Note that I'm not good at spotting the "weird resonance" in closed headphones as some of my friends are, so perhaps it was there and I did not notice it.
> 
> It is highly regarded by Tyll, though: http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone


 
  TY.
  Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Yeah, sorting by closed/open would be very helpful. I'm currently looking for a nice open headphone for the soundstage, but sometimes pictures can be deceiving especially to the untrained eye. I've got around 150 USD to spend and the AD700 seems like the way to go. Anyone have any other suggestions at that price range?
> 
> People will likely recommend a dedicated headphone with a separate microphone attached. If you must have an all-in-one solution that is the headset, there's a few recommendations on the first post. Besides that, the Cyborg F.R.E.Q. 5 looks interesting. But it's only become recently available outside its manufacturer's store, so there are only a few reviews of it and none of them are in-depth. It would be nice if someone here reviewed it.


 
  AD700 are about the best around 100-150 though 150 would be high for a pair. Try used and get new ear cups.
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> ZeeBAD: dude, it's really hard to follow your thoughts.
> 
> If you want the best (according to MLE's guide) it's probably the D7000 I think everyone here is trying to talk to you to check that you're making the *right choice*, but you don't really seem interested in the details, so...
> Just buy the D7000 and a MixAmp and a modmic.
> ...


 
  That dude is lost in the sauce on MLG, etc.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Ya, I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
> 
> Mad Catz owns Tritton.  Tritton also makes headsets with 50mm drivers.  I wonder where THIS headset's 50mm drivers came from??
> 
> ...


 
  That is one ugly piece of crap.
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Also, for clarification, the A50 is not a 7.1 headset. It's an A40 with the mixamp built in. It's stereo. The mixamp is what gives the stereo headsets surround sound. Hopefully that clears a little confusion for you.


 




  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Not for PC gaming. The Mixamp is a console gaming device first and foremost. For PC gaming, a sound card offers more features and sound quality at less cost.
> 
> If you want the best from a competitive standpoint...I'd say Stax, but their hardware is pretty damn expensive for something you'd only use for gaming, even the cheaper Lambda setups.


 





 Someone finally mentioned STAX. It just got good.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Speaking of gaming headset/headphones. Has anyone stopped buy AKG's GHS1 cans and given them a whirl? On site they are 100 EUD.
  http://uk.akg.com/product-detail-2821/ghs1wht_product.html
   
   
  Also has anyone seen this? Was trolling (patrolling for you... other kids) through the website looking at prices and stumbled on this: http://uk.akg.com/akg-k3003-overview-uk.html   1K EUD In-Ear buds. Yikes!


----------



## Eric_C

^ Why do you find the price shocking? Is it because it's an earphone, or because it's a universal IEM, or something else?


----------



## calpis

To the person asking about the Sonys, I have a pair of MDR-7509HD's and no, just no. The soundstage is just way too congested when you pair it with DH and I had a very very hard time finding the positional cues that I'm used to. Sure, they may be regarded as good studio cans and that's where their bread and butter is. But when it comes to pairing it with DH, it is a big fat no go. I had to rip them off my head because I was getting such a crappy score, went back to my Pro2900 and my score instantly shot up again.
   
  If you really want a good experience with DH, open headphones cannot be beat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it seems the DT990/32 is too much like the 600ohm in terms of positioning, that it'd be useless to give them their own listing. I'll go ahead and update the Premium 990 with a little more info detailing the slight difference.

BTW, the 990/32 definitely has better positioning than the HE-400. Quite obvious.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think MLE might be the expert on this, I remember him saying he has a big head.


 
   
   
  Yeah - it may be worth mentioning (if it's true) in the opening post with respect to some cans he had trouble with "clamp" wise and "comfort" wise. Until I read that line above some of his comments didn't quite make sense, but do now


----------



## genclaymore

ninjasushi2 said:


> Speaking of gaming headset/headphones. Has anyone stopped buy AKG's GHS1 cans and given them a whirl? On site they are 100 EUD.
> http://uk.akg.com/product-detail-2821/ghs1wht_product.html
> 
> 
> Also has anyone seen this? Was trolling (patrolling for you... other kids) through the website looking at prices and stumbled on this: http://uk.akg.com/akg-k3003-overview-uk.html   1K EUD In-Ear buds. Yikes!




A friend of mine bought the AKG GHS1, he told me it had good base but the sound stage was small.But then the only other headphones he did use and have was the AD700.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

eric_c said:


> ^ Why do you find the price shocking? Is it because it's an earphone, or because it's a universal IEM, or something else?




I just read the price. Was too busy to read what it was. So how does the K550 compare to other closed backs? So what makes them so awesome that 1000EUD justifies the price? Audio new here.


----------



## Evshrug

dawico said:


> After reading some reviews (without actually finding a proper audio forum like this) I purchased Corsair's new vengeance 1500 headset. Now it sounded good (to an audio rookie like myself anyway) but they crushed my head even at max size and after leaving them on a tissue box for ages.



Tom's Hardware review?



dawico said:


> At the moment i've been using my onboard sound from my Asus pz68-v pro motherboard:
> 
> Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
> - Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
> ...



Boof? Lol I like that word!
As someone else said, you can add a small mic to any headset for all your game chatty needs. I actually bought a 3 pack of "Neewer" brand lapel mics on Amazon for like $3.50 (US$) shipped, and my friends list has lit up with comments that they can hear me so much more clearly (and didn't realize I actually sounded "like that"). Mad Lust Envy mentions a DealExtreme lapel mic in the first post that works well for him, though I bet they're basically the same product. Mine picks up my voice just fine pinned to my shirt collar, me talking without paying any attention to facing my mouth towards it, and my friends are glad not to hear me breathing anymore ha! Another popular option is the mod-mic, also mentioned in the OP.

Your motherboard's built in sound is actually alright. Buying a new sound card, however, has the benefits of interference shielding, discreet processing for computer resource relief, and most of all virtual surround sound processing. Check out NamelessPFG's guide (linked in OP) for some recommendations; some games have 3D audio that isn't technically limited to 5.1 or 7.1 channels! 

As far as which headphone... I dunno. XD
My head is really close to 6" wide ear-to-ear, and aside from the weird jaw pressure from new Audio Technica AD700 pads, everything has fit me as designed. Many (perhaps not all) Sennheisers are known for tighter-than-average clamping force, which was certainly true for the closed models I've tried (HD202 wasn't as bad as the 201s, but I definitely needed to shift positioning often and take a break halfway through a CD album), but the PX100 is fine. Haven't been able to audition the models at the range you're looking. I also haven't tried the different Beyerdynamic headphones/headsets, but they are supposed to be the kings of comfort.
I really like my Q701s, sound really great and I wore them through two movies last night when I couldn't sleep, but MLE mentioned that he wished the auto-adjusting headband stretched a little wider. For me, all I had to do to get settled for my marathon last night was rotate the headband forward off the highest peak of my head, and I'm someone with fine hair that seems to thin out every time I get a haircut. YMMV, but these are the best headphones I've ever had in every way except wearing in-transit (and I really don't know why AKG put in those bumps! Overheating issues?)


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The thing is, I have 0 experience with STAX and can't put or place them between other headphones in my personal ranking, not even estimate. It's hard to find a place to listen to them as well.
> 
> Which set or combo are you referring out of this list? http://www.fl-electronic.de/neuklang/stax.html#preise


 
   
  My main setup is a vintage Normal bias SR-Lambda (albeit with rebuilt drivers and mineral wool removed from the earcups) + SRD-7/SB, with an Onkyo TX-SV515PRO I had lying around to provide the required speaker-level input to the SRD-7/SB. I'm hoping to replace the amp setup with something like an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro in the future, but my budget currently doesn't allow for it. (It's the amps that really eat into your wallet with electrostatics...)
   
  I've also tried an SR-202 + SRM-212 system before, which was also pretty good in sound presentation, but had an inferior midrange to the SR-Lambda. (If spritzer's opinion is anything to go by, the original SR-Lambda apparently has the best midrange of them all. The many succeeding Pro bias variants may have improved on bass, treble, and perhaps detail retrieval, but not midrange.)
   
  Getting a chance to audition them can be difficult if you can't afford the used deals going around, though. On top of that, the cheaper systems (US$400 and less) tend to have SRD-series transformer boxes that require speaker amps/receivers/etc. to power them, which means added cost if you don't have one already.
   
  What I can say is that there's this...airy, atmospheric, ambient quality to the sound. It's like the air itself is singing to you, and the sound is quite enveloping and "3D" to me if the source has the positional cues. They may very well redefine clarity to someone who's never heard an electrostatic set before.
   
  They're also ludicrously comfortable, probably for big heads too. (Well, maybe not the SR-507 if spritzer is any indication, due to the revised headband/arc.)


----------



## Mackem

Is there any cheaper alternatives to the DT770 Pro 80s that are just as comfortable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative Aurvana Live.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I just read the price. Was too busy to read what it was. So how does the K550 compare to other closed backs? So what makes them so awesome that 1000EUD justifies the price? Audio new here.


 
   
  Sorry, now you're discussing both the K3003 and the K550 as if they're the same headphone.
  The K3003 is the 1,000 dollar/Euro piece of gear; it's a universal in-ear. "Universal" in that anyone can buy it and it'll fit in their ears; there are _custom_ in-ears by companies like Ultimate Ears, Westone and JH Audio that require a moulded impression of your ears get made into a unique 'shell' which will fit your ears only. The top tier customs easily surpass the US$1K price mark.
   
  The K550 is the much, much more reasonably priced closed back, full-size headphone. It retails for around US$ 300? I thought--given brief auditions, mind you--that it just sounded "right". I think I've said this earlier, but nothing sounded unnecessarily recessed or emphasised, and I didn't feel like the sound was "boxed in". Again, I think I've stated this caveat before, but I tend not to hear the weird resonance that people complain about with closed headphones, so this may devalue my impressions on the headphone for you.
*And in any case: *http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/wonderfully-competent-akg-k550-sealed-headphone
   
  If Tyll says a headphone is good, you really ought to sit up and take notice.


----------



## npf1107

So after following this thread for a bit and weighing up the pros and cons I thought the best route for me to take would be to buy the Astro Mixamp and the Sennheisser PC360. I play Call of Duty on the PS3 and that's virtually all I would use the headset for so figured, despite most people tuting and shaking their head right now, that'd be the best all round general route for me to take.
   
  Well the PC360s arrived the other day and the Mixamp last night, so I hooked them up with great expectations. I should now mention  I'm moving up from the Tritton AX Pros so anything must be an improvement.
   
  But after 2 hours of playing last night I have to say I was far from blown away. Now it's possible my expectations were to great. But I really expected to be sound whoring my way thru the game and this simply didn't happen. The sound was better coming from the PC360s, no question and even the directional awareness was much greater on the footsteps I could hear. Trouble is, I was still being shanked from behind by people I simply didn't hear coming, even though they didn't have dead silence. Or I would get killed by someone coming around a corner even though I had an 'ear out' for movement.
   
  So I'm not sure what to make of it all. I probably spent €300 for the combination and I am definitely not feeling the monies worth. Is it that my expectations were unrealistic or should I just send the PC360s back and get proper headphones and a lapel mic and if so which ones? I don't mind paying a little bit more for headphones, but only if I'm going to notice a difference.
   
  Any advice on this would be appreciated. I'm going to give the PC360s another go tonight, but really. I'm feeling very inclined to send them back.


----------



## Eric_C

Isn't the AX Pro using the same virtual surround tech as the MixAmp?


----------



## Phos

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> My main setup is a vintage Normal bias SR-Lambda (albeit with rebuilt drivers and mineral wool removed from the earcups) + SRD-7/SB, with an Onkyo TX-SV515PRO I had lying around to provide the required speaker-level input to the SRD-7/SB. I'm hoping to replace the amp setup with something like an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro in the future, but my budget currently doesn't allow for it. (It's the amps that really eat into your wallet with electrostatics...)
> 
> I've also tried an SR-202 + SRM-212 system before, which was also pretty good in sound presentation, but had an inferior midrange to the SR-Lambda. (If spritzer's opinion is anything to go by, the original SR-Lambda apparently has the best midrange of them all. The many succeeding Pro bias variants may have improved on bass, treble, and perhaps detail retrieval, but not midrange.)
> 
> ...


 
  All this talk about stats has me wondering with all these speaker makers getting into the headphone business, would an electrostatic speaker manufacturer like say MartinLogan make an Estat headphone?  
   
  Quote: 





npf1107 said:


> So after following this thread for a bit and weighing up the pros and cons I thought the best route for me to take would be to buy the Astro Mixamp and the Sennheisser PC360. I play Call of Duty on the PS3 and that's virtually all I would use the headset for so figured, despite most people tuting and shaking their head right now, that'd be the best all round general route for me to take.
> 
> Well the PC360s arrived the other day and the Mixamp last night, so I hooked them up with great expectations. I should now mention  I'm moving up from the Tritton AX Pros so anything must be an improvement.
> 
> ...


 
  Ya sure you have your console set up to output 5.1 over optical and that the game itself isn't set to headphones?


----------



## calpis

If  you're playing MW3, are you using Sitrep Pro? Without sitrep pro, sound whoring becomes very hard in MW3. You  should still kinda be able to hear people coming from behind but you just have to concentrate a whole lot more than if you weren't using sitrep pro.


----------



## npf1107

Quote: 





phos said:


> a sure you have your console set up to output 5.1 over optical and that the game itself isn't set to headphones?


 
   
  The PS3 is setup to output over optical and in 5.1. The Trittions were the same in that regards. The game doesn't have any options for sound output. Unlike all previous COD's or BF3 etc.
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Isn't the AX Pro using the same virtual surround tech as the MixAmp?


 
  No, the Trittions actually are true 5.1 headphones. Not virtual


----------



## npf1107

Quote: 





calpis said:


> If  you're playing MW3, are you using Sitrep Pro? Without sitrep pro, sound whoring becomes very hard in MW3. You  should still kinda be able to hear people coming from behind but you just have to concentrate a whole lot more than if you weren't using sitrep pro.


 
  I do use SitRep Pro, but not on all classes, I like Dead silence as well. But LIS in my previous post. The problem was with some that I could hear from a distance ( and pin-point fairly accurately ) but others, without dead silence would just sneak up on me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

npf1107 said:


> So after following this thread for a bit and weighing up the pros and cons I thought the best route for me to take would be to buy the Astro Mixamp and the Sennheisser PC360. I play Call of Duty on the PS3 and that's virtually all I would use the headset for so figured, despite most people tuting and shaking their head right now, that'd be the best all round general route for me to take.
> 
> Well the PC360s arrived the other day and the Mixamp last night, so I hooked them up with great expectations. I should now mention  I'm moving up from the Tritton AX Pros so anything must be an improvement.
> 
> ...




I have constantly repeated how terrible MW3 was for soundwhoring.

Sigh... it has nothing to do with the Mixamp or the PC360s.

Seriously, juding the performance of any headphone with that game (or Battlefield 3) is the biggest mistake you can make.


----------



## npf1107

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have constantly repeated how terrible MW3 was for soundwhoring.
> Sigh... it has nothing to do with the Mixamp or the PC360s.
> Seriously, juding the performance of any headphone with that game (or Battlefield 3) is the biggest mistake you can make.


 
  Ok, I didn't know that. I can't say I read thru all 484 pages. But thanks for the heads up.
   
  I was overall pleased with the increase in sound quality, just LIS. Sometimes it left me thinking What?


----------



## Evshrug

npf1107 said:


> Ok, I didn't know that. I can't say I read thru all 484 pages. But thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I was overall pleased with the increase in sound quality, just LIS. Sometimes it left me thinking What?




Try Halo: Reach if you have it. The very first cutscene is a great test of positional audio, and in MP I've been having some intense games of SWAT. Really, I have pretty good aim, but I've been playing amazingly well with 5 games with a positive over 11 kills last night alone. Popping up on people from the center ramps in Zealot has been hella fun and unfair 

I tried some ME2 last night too... Not as impressed as with Halo, so far that's my positional/detail/sound info whoring champion.

I don't have any Dolby Headphone options at the moment, but I look forward to comparing Yamaha's silent cinema to Creative's CMSS-3D once my Recon3D arrives.


----------



## Evshrug

npf1107 said:


> Ok, I didn't know that. I can't say I read thru all 484 pages. But thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I was overall pleased with the increase in sound quality, just LIS. Sometimes it left me thinking What?




Try Halo: Reach if you have it. The very first cutscene is a great test of positional audio, and in MP I've been having some intense games of SWAT. Really, I have pretty good aim, but I've been playing amazingly well with 5 games with a positive over 11 kills last night alone. Popping up on people from the center ramps in Zealot has been hella fun and unfair 

I tried some ME2 last night too... Not as impressed as with Halo, so far that's my positional/detail/sound info whoring champion.

I don't have any Dolby Headphone options at the moment, but I look forward to comparing Yamaha's silent cinema to Creative's CMSS-3D once my Recon3D arrives.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





npf1107 said:


> No, the Trittions actually are true 5.1 headphones. Not virtual


 
   
  My bad.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Try Halo: Reach if you have it.


 
   
  He's on a PS3...


----------



## Mackem

I may just buy back a used pair of DT 770 Pros and get an Antlion Modmic. Either that or just get a Siberia V2 (I'm playing games on the PC only as well as using Skype). I'd prefer an 'all-in-one' solution like a headset but I understand that they have inferior sound. If only I knew how to mod headphones..I'd get the DT 770 Pro 80s and mod them to have a built-in mic jack.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Ugh, ya MW3 sucks for directional audio. I was able to bring home a Tritton AX 720 from work so I thought I would try our different setups to see if anything sounded better. I couldn't make out a thing in MW3, Black ops was a little better but I was only able to play a few games. The 720s actually sound pretty good overall if maybe a bit heavy on the base for me but I still like my Sennheiser HD435's more. I gotta say I'm really impressed with the technology behind my Turtle Beach PX5, not that I think the actual headphones are anything special but the ability to tweak nearly every aspect of the audio that is coming into and out of the headphones (via PC software) is pretty cool. I'm going to play some more black ops tonight and test out the footstep mode. I also really like the PX5 transmitter base with optical in/out RCA in and the separate headphone plug with volume control. Anyone else have experience with the PX5? Also, I got my HD435's for free from work but I've been wondering how they compare to some of the other headphones mentioned on page 1, any ideas? Here is the product page http://www.sennheiser.ca/live/senn/produit/en/581/160/


----------



## Evshrug

eric_c said:


> Evshrug: "HALO BLAAARG! @ o,@"
> 
> He's on a PS3...




Oh. Well then... Uh, maybe the uncharted series has good audio? Metal Gear games really ought to, I plan on picking up the Collection pack once I get through my game backlog. Sorry, I don't have a PS3.

Talking about metal gear makes me want to go back and play Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. GG!


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mackem said:


> I may just buy back a used pair of DT 770 Pros and get an Antlion Modmic. Either that or just get a Siberia V2 (I'm playing games on the PC only as well as using Skype). I'd prefer an 'all-in-one' solution like a headset but I understand that they have inferior sound. If only I knew how to mod headphones..I'd get the DT 770 Pro 80s and mod them to have a built-in mic jack.


 
   
  Maybe a few cable ties or velcro straps will do the trick. The 770 has the cable only coming out of one earcup, so you could run fix the modmic to that same side.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





phos said:


> All this talk about stats has me wondering with all these speaker makers getting into the headphone business, would an electrostatic speaker manufacturer like say MartinLogan make an Estat headphone?


 
   
  If they wanted to, they, Quad, and Acoustat would've made electrostatic headphones a long time ago, I'm sure.
   
  But as it stands, the market was left to Stax and Koss, with the occasional Jecklin Float-type headphone with 'stat drivers or the HE Audio Jade (which is notoriously unreliable).
   
  In other news, I got the Recon3D USB today. First impressions for console gaming out of an original Xbox are that, compared to my SU-DH1, the rear imaging is more cohesive (not a big gap in the 6 o'clock position), but Dolby Headphone out of the SU-DH1 spaces out the sounds a bit further from my head, even in DH1 mode. This is after setting the THX TruStudio Surround option to 100% on a PC first and saving it to the device, then setting it to Xbox mode.
   
  It also comes with a little adapter you plug into the front jacks for console use. For the PS3, it looks like just an extension cable, but for Xbox users, it's what you need to connect the headphone jack on your controller, along with an included 2.5mm to 2.5mm cable.
   
  It is NOT battery-powered whatsoever, so make sure you have it connected to a USB power source. This complicates things a little more for original Xbox use, even with a spliced controller port-to-USB adapter, but an AC adapter with a USB port will work fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my E17 came in. The HE400 certainly does sound pretty damn good off it. Not quite as full bodied or refined as the NFB5 (I would hope not), and the treble is a touch hotter than the NFB5, but nothing problematic. Very pleased with it as my secondary DAC/AMP. The bass boost on +2, +4 sounds pretty good with the HE400. 

I can see how the HE400 can be a bit peaky off other sources/amps. They sound so swell off the NFB5, that I don't feel they need any adjustment.

Wow, the DT990/32 sounds REALLY good with the E17. I would've expected my sibilant tracks to really stick out... and they don't. I'm almost inclined to say that treble is smoother than the HE400s with the E17! :eek:

I don't even need the treble reduction! These tracks would have destroyed my ears with the DT990/600. I'm now convinced that the DT990/32's treble isn't as glaringly harsh as the 600ohm, especially with a portable amp.

DT990/32 + E17 = BLISS.

That is quite possibly the best fun setup for music in their price range, which you can also use for well balanced gaming with a bass reduction on the E17.


----------



## genclaymore

Might changing the Flavor(sound signature) on the NFB-5 would help the HE-400 more while using the NFB-5. if the default just isn't doing it for you.  Good thing you don't have to open it up and switch the jumpers around like I do on my NFB-12 model that I got from another user that isn't using the latest design which is a press of a button.
   
  Unless I read your post wrong and you happy with the headphones with the default setting that if you already change it already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I use the most uncolored filter (number 8). The NFB5 is naturally full bodied with a slight (but greatly appreciated roll off in the extreme upper end). It gives headphones a very organic sound. The E17, E9, and everything else I've tried has sounded digital in comparison. The Lyr was fuller sounding, but a bit too warm for my taste.

Don't get me wrong: the NFB5 smokes the E17. Just saying that the DT990/32 sounds very good on the E17. A better pairing than the HE400 + E17 which is pretty good on it own. Both the HE400 and DT990/32 shine through the NFB5.

BTW, the different filters all sound 99.9% the same.

edit: Looks like I'm gonna have to update the HE400's competitive score to an 8. The Mixamp alone wasn't driving it well enough, and choked soundstage depth. Adding the E17 to the Mixamp, I'm now able to get better rear positional cues and a clearly fuller, and more immersive sound.


> *HE-400*
> 
> *Updated: 8/30/2012: The earlier impression was with the Mixamp alone. I didn't notice at the time, but after having used the E17 to help the Mixamp power the HE-400, they improved enough to warrant some pretty significant edits to this entry. Please read on to see the updated impressions, and score.
> 
> ...


----------



## genclaymore

For my NFB-12 the digital filter's do not sound the same, I had to switch the jumper from a setting a person was using when I bought my from them. To another one, because the Digital filter they had it on was too bright. Maybe the NFB-5 is designed differently where the Digital filter doesn't make a differences or you don't notice it.


----------



## hoboX10

So I've read that the 7509HD are the EXACT same headphones as the V900HD just with a slightly different style and color.
   
  Head-fi only has a few reviews on it's page http://www.head-fi.org/products/sony-mdr7509hd-professional-headphone/reviews/
  but they are all raving about it.
  
  I'm pretty confident I'll be getting these unless Sony releases a new version of them soon (It would be welcome as long as they don't ruin them in some way, apparently they have been out for like 13 years)


----------



## Wo33er

Newb question here...

Why is it that the majority of headphones that are generally recommended in this thread and other similar resources, particularly in the low and mid bracket, were manufactured years (often many) ago?

Just curious really, is it because new headphones aren't built as well (too much focus on portability, the iPhone era or exaggerated pricing perhaps) or that it simply takes a while for opinions and feedback for new devices to filter down (particularly in a specialised use such as for gaming)?

I encountered the same situation with recent monitor upgrades, with 5 year old models still being quoted as the best but that was mainly due to the modern emphasis on panels being thinner (and therefore losing quality). Also in part that monitors do drop in price with time becoming a better bargain, which is something I haven't seen with low/mid headphones that still share the same price tag quoted from year(s) old reviews.


----------



## Eric_C

^ I think a key difference is the nature of the tech we're talking about here. With the exception of the HE-400, all the headphones recommended in this thread use dynamic drivers...that tech is old, and I honestly don't know how much more it can be improved upon.
   
  2 of the "old" flagships or their variants already get recommended--Beyerdynamic's DT 880, and AKG's Q701--so there's hardly anywhere else to go, really. 
   
  The other thing to consider is where market forces are. Ignoring pro audio (which arguably needs little new products), the consumer market is clearly adjusting itself in the wake of Beats. Perhaps people want what Beats has offered: style, convenience, a certain kind of sound. You can see this trend in Denon's new line-up of headphones, and the fact that Ultimate Ears is producing full-size headphones for the first time at all. And these newer headphones tend to combine features--isolation, noise cancelling, mic cable, foldable, etc.
   
  In contrast, the headphones we're discussing perform a single feature well: immersive sound reproduction. I daresay the size of this market is much smaller (in number of customers and total potential revenue) than the "casual" consumer market.


----------



## Evshrug

Wobber,
Beats' impact is definitely strong, in fact I think headphones _should_ have been a logical market for growth after the explosion of iPod popularity, but my impression without any formal research was that the Beats were the first headphone to really stand out and get mainstream consumers to consider headphones instead of the included earbuds... at least since the iPod came out. Apparently, Sennheiser 414s were all the rage back in cassette tape days, but I still think most people didn't consider going beyond whatever was included with their portable music player. Headphones are "in" now, in a way I expect will continue to grow for a few years, though they will definitely cater to smartphones.

There is another factor I thought of, too. Like Eric_C said, what we want as gamers is "immersive" sound reproduction. That's a little bit of a different goal from the more common "Oh, cheap headphones have almost no bass, therefore strong bass = quality," we want a balanced (or even bass-light) signature with harder-to-understand aspects like _soundstage._ A lot of those attributes were formerly the domain of snobby "but we know better" audiophiles willing to be priced out of the mainstream, so much of the time older headphones with those audiophile attributes are the only ones to reach a cheaper price because of depreciation. For example, I believe the MSRP of the Audio Technica AD700 was $300? So, yeah, we pick older releases that have settled down in price because they don't stand up to the new flagships.

I guess I could've summed that up just by saying that last sentence... well, I never claimed to have the world's most organized thoughts


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





wo33er said:


> Why is it that the majority of headphones that are generally recommended in this thread and other similar resources, particularly in the low and mid bracket, were manufactured years (often many) ago?
> Just curious really, is it because new headphones aren't built as well (too much focus on portability, the iPhone era or exaggerated pricing perhaps) or that it simply takes a while for opinions and feedback for new devices to filter down (particularly in a specialised use such as for gaming)?
> I encountered the same situation with recent monitor upgrades, with 5 year old models still being quoted as the best but that was mainly due to the modern emphasis on panels being thinner (and therefore losing quality). Also in part that monitors do drop in price with time becoming a better bargain, which is something I haven't seen with low/mid headphones that still share the same price tag quoted from year(s) old reviews.


 
   
  You know that Stax SR-Lambda I love so much and keep singing the praises of all around this forum? That headphone design dates back to *1979*, and they still use the same basic frame with minor modifications to this day. Some Stax enthusiasts like spritzer even consider it to sound better than some of the newer models that succeeded it, especially where midrange is concerned.
   
  I think that, technically, current audio transducers have reached the "good enough" point for most people decades ago (barring the people who buy SR-009s because they want no less than bleeding-edge top-of-the-line, of course), and now it's mostly a subjective matter of what sound presentation people like, what headphone designs are comfortable, and so forth.
   
  Also, there's that matter of older hardware being...well, older. They perform no worse than when they were top-of-the-line in their day (barring changes in manufacturing that were still lumped under the same model number, which can result in different impressions for the same headphone), and because they've been around longer, they're going to drop in price either through being displaced by newer models, being sold second-hand, or both. (But usually second-hand sales.) In other words, more bang for your buck.


----------



## Evshrug

LOL glad you agree with me Nameless.
By the way, it took three days, but finally my Recon3D has transferred from UPS... to my local post office. And they don't want to dig through their stuff so I can pick it up, apparently there was a big delay in general in my neighborhood so they have "99" packages on a pallet that they're waiting to deal with till tomorrow. I know I'm ignorant, but it seems to me that sorting the mail is just as big and important a job as having someone out front to sell stamps and boxes... But, obviously, the big question is: what happened to the mail over the past 3 days?

Mad Lust Envy,
Have you heard the E11? If you look at the specs, it appears that the e7's amp section is near identical to the E5 (150mW (16Ω);16mW (300Ω)), the E11 has about twice the power (300mW(16Ω) ; 35mW(300Ω)), and the E17 is better than halfway between the others (>250mW (16Ω Loaded); >30mW (300Ω Loaded)). I have no idea what the "loaded" designation after the Ω rating indicates, but it still is clear that the E11 is better purely as an amp. Of course the E17 has it's DAC section and treble EQ to add value and make them different stories. Have you used the E17's treble reduction/boost feature to tune your headphones? You mentioned you could use bass-reduction, did you try it out?

Anyway, I'm happy you two are enjoying your new stuff, and trying to ride with your excitement, lol!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah the E11 should be better as an amp than the E17. The downside is than there's no treble control, and the bass can only be boosted. I wonder if the upcoming E12 will have bass/treble controls?

I have used both bass and treble reduction/boosts. The treble reduction works really well. Though I don't need it, the DT990/32 with a -2 treble reduction sounds pretty good. As for bass reduction, You can make the 990 sound like an 880 with it. No issues there.

I tried the bass boost with the HE-400, and I found the boost to work very well at plus 2/4/6. Any more and the bass gets distorted. I haven't used the treble boost, but I'm sure it'd help overly smooth cans.


----------



## Burns11

What about K240 Studio as a budget gaming headphone (80% mostly noncompetitive gaming, 20% "fun"), paired with an ASUS Xonar_DG? 
   
  I'm king of floating around this price range looking at CAL!, flirted with cheaper popular options such as Samson sr850/Superlux, HTF600, HA-RX900, contemplated going closer to $200.  Just not sure what to pull the trigger on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I honestly owed it to you guys to review the DT770/32 or MMX300, as the DT770 positioning is god tier, and the non Pro DT770s (aside from that weird bass heavy DT770/600 I had) having a reserved bass level would probably make them absolute must haves for closed gaming cans.

The problem is, premium DT770s are now discontinued and very hard to find. From what I've been seeing on Head-fi, the T70 and T70p are actually inferior to the DT770s with stronger treble peaks, so it's a bit disconcerting.

Looks like I will never get a chance to review the older, non-bassy DTs.

I'd like to try the K271MK II (K272HD for the prettier version) though. Not sure how their soundstage is, but I'm sure they'd fare pretty well here.



Hmm...interesting. Bear in mind that the K271MKII and 272HD are the same can internally. The graph is probably just a can by can variation.

Still...a closed AD700? Obviously without the soundstage.


----------



## Eric_C

Dammit. And there's a local promo in my country for the Pro's at ~USD 165

Seriously considering selling my HD 600 and swapping for a 770. Or heck, maybe a HE 400. 

Mad: the K271 seemed good for positioning when I demo'd them with music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How did you like the tonal balance on the K271? I see they're bass light, which should be pretty optimal for competitive gaming.

And for the love of head-fi, get the HE400 and a set of velour pads! DO IT NOW!


----------



## Eric_C

Nooooo but I'm...so...prudent. 

Yes the K271 is a little bass light. I A/B'd them with the HFI-580 and the AKG's bass was much milder. 
Another time I compared them to Beats Pro and M50--in that instance the K271 felt a little warmer in the mids, and overall more "right" in the treble and bass. 

Demo-ing 770 and 550 in store now, unamped and with music.

[Update:] 770 really does have some fantastic bass and soundstage, but I think it comes at the cost of the mids. They feel very recessed. Highs are a bit rolled off too, though that's not necessarily bad. MLE's spot-on: I expect these to be GREAT gaming-for-fun only. Not so great as all-rounders.
K550 looks and feels excellent, but I think I'm hearing the "plasticky" mids AKG is infamous for. Voices sounded a bit unnatural and the highs were a tad peaky. _Jazz at the Pawnshop_ did not sound good at all. Classical violin was perfect. Fit was a bit finicky.


----------



## chicolom

I've had the K 240 which was not bass light.  I can't remember the soundstage too well - I think it was medium sized, but not large enough for my tastes (I like 'em rreeal big).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That treble peak seems so out of place, considering how everything is up until that point.


----------



## moppelh

so, after months and months of researching im finally about to pull the trigger on the DT990 premium (32ohm).  problems is this recon3d thing...  is it good enough to drive the dt (at least to a similar level as the mixamp)? which one would be better: e7 or e11? ill be playing and watching movies on the PS3.
   
  the recon3d has a feature to EQ via PC software, and thats tempting...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how strong the internal amp is on the Recon, but the 32ohm Beyers do want power.


----------



## moppelh

which would be a better pairing for the them, the e7 or e11?  or any other good options in the price range?   ($50-70)
   
  (how surprising... there is no information on the soundblaster site about the internal amp on the recon3d...)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

E11 for sure. The E7 has a very weak amp.


----------



## moppelh

Thank you for all the information MLE and everyone.  I've been checking this thread for a few months now and its been very awesome to become familiar with the audiophile world.
   
  now for the long wait...  order in place but its going to be a while until everything arrives here in Brazil.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





moppelh said:


> Thank you for all the information MLE and everyone.  I've been checking this thread for a few months now and its been very awesome to become familiar with the audiophile world.
> 
> now for the long wait...  order in place but its going to be a while until everything arrives here in Brazil.


 
  If your getting the e11 and you listen to your headset for long sesions you might want to get a second battery becasue you can't play n charge the e11 at the same time if your battery goes dead..
   
  I have that amp and made that mistake of not getting a second battery but it is a very good amp none the less


----------



## Mrniceguy633

i95north said:


> If your getting the e11 and you listen to your headset for long sesions you might want to get a second battery becasue you can't play n charge the e11 at the same time if your battery goes dead..
> 
> I have that amp and made that mistake of not getting a second battery but it is a very good amp none the less




Thats actually very good to know. Are the Fiio all like that? I'd rather not have to deal with batteries dying if there are other options just as good amp wise


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





mrniceguy633 said:


> Thats actually very good to know. Are the Fiio all like that? I'd rather not have to deal with batteries dying if there are other options just as good amp wise


 
  Do you need the amp to be portable? If not then a desktop amp like the O2 or E9 would be a good choice in terms of power/price. Or you could go for something higher end like M-stage, Schitt Lyr/Asgard. 
   
  For Fiio's portable amps the E11 is the current top of the line in terms of power output, but doesn't have the DAC capability like the E7, or E11 (which you shouldn't need for gaming). The lower end of the line (E1-6) may not have enough power output to really be worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku said:


> For Fiio's portable amps the E11 is the current top of the line in terms of power output, but doesn't have the DAC capability like the E7, or *E17 *(which you shouldn't need for gaming). The lower end of the line (E1-6) may not have enough power output to really be worth it.




Fixed.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Do you need the amp to be portable? If not then get a desktop amp like the O2 or E9 would be a good choice in terms of power/price. Or you could go for something higher end like M-stage, Schitt Lyr/Asgard.


 
   
  x2
   
  If you don't need a _portable _amp, don't get one.  Get a desktop amp.  The M-stage and Schiit amps are probably overkill for gaming, but E9s are cheap on the FS forum (~$80), and the O2 isn't that bad either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since he's aiming for the 32ohm DT990, I'd say go for the O2 instead of the E9, due to the output impedance which may make the treble even more prominent off the E9.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Since he's aiming for the 32ohm DT990, I'd say go for the O2 instead of the E9, due to the output impedance which may make the treble even more prominent off the E9.


 
   
  With the DT990 I'd actually be fine with recommending the E17 for the EQ options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, definitely. I just assumed it was too costly for something to pair up with the Recon just to amp the DT990/32.

It's obviously worthwhile if you'll use the E17 for DAC duties outside of gaming use.


----------



## moppelh

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> With the DT990 I'd actually be fine with recommending the E17 for the EQ options.


 
  actually, im getting the recon3d because of the eq. 
   
  im getting into this thing because of gaming, but i think im gonna stay because of music, so maybe ill need a DAC at some point.  for now, im more than doubling my original budget, so ill keep to cheapish options... (was going to get the CAL! instead of the DT990, already have upgraditis and my first set have yet to arrive!!!)


----------



## moppelh

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Do you need the amp to be portable? If not then a desktop amp like the O2 or E9 would be a good choice in terms of power/price. Or you could go for something higher end like M-stage, Schitt Lyr/Asgard.
> 
> For Fiio's portable amps the E11 is the current top of the line in terms of power output, but doesn't have the DAC capability like the E7, or E11 (which you shouldn't need for gaming). The lower end of the line (E1-6) may not have enough power output to really be worth it.


 
  how's the E10 for a cheaper alternative to the E17 or the O2?  i imagine it has a lower power output, and no EQ options (but im getting that from the recon3d, if it works as promised).  (will be using the DT990 premium 32OHM)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





moppelh said:


> how's the E10 for a cheaper alternative to the E17 or the O2?  i imagine it has a lower power output, and no EQ options (but im getting that from the recon3d, if it works as promised).  (will be using the DT990 premium 32OHM)


 
   
  The E10 only works directly from a computer using it's own DAC.  You can't use it to amp another product.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The A700 is NOT a closed AD700. Not in the same series nor the same drivers.
> Unless your parents are in the same room, an open headphone is not going to be an issue.


 
   
  MAD: Thanks for your recommendations. As always, your words contain too much truth. Stay safe bro!!!
   
  Jod


----------



## moppelh

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The E10 only works directly from a computer using it's own DAC.  You can't use it to amp another product.


 
  had no idea...i didnt check the specs, only saw that the Fiio site marked it a DAC headphone amplifier...


----------



## PsyMed

Which settings to use? Windows Volume 100% Game Volume 100% Ingame Volume Less than 100% Amp Volume high or Windows Volume 100% Game Volume 100% Ingame Volume 100% Amp Volume low/medium


----------



## Eric_C

Uh, what?


----------



## raband

I think he's asking if it's best to have all volumes on the computer at max and just control the volume through the amp.
   
  I think that works best?


----------



## PsyMed

raband said:


> I think he's asking if it's best to have all volumes on the computer at max and just control the volume through the amp.
> 
> I think that works best?



 
 yeah there's a volume setting inside the game ( should that be set to 100%?)


----------



## moppelh

a lot of complains about hiss on the recon3d...  the few of you who tried it, is it any good?


----------



## Mrniceguy633

mad lust envy said:


> Since he's aiming for the 32ohm DT990, I'd say go for the O2 instead of the E9, due to the output impedance which may make the treble even more prominent off the E9.




I should have specified, but I'm actually waiting for my HE-400s to arrive. Can't wait. I do plan on using it with my computer aswell. Perhaps I'll have to deal the e11 or e17 battery nonsense. How's the battery life?


----------



## Eric_C

PsyMed: Max all the software volume controls. Surely this is how you used to keep the settings when you used cheaper speakers/headphones--the only place you'd adjust volume is the speaker volume knob or a laptop's hardware volume control buttons.
  Do likewise for whatever you've got now.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mrniceguy633 said:


> I should have specified, but I'm actually waiting for my HE-400s to arrive. Can't wait. I do plan on using it with my computer aswell. Perhaps I'll have to deal the e11 or e17 battery nonsense. How's the battery life?


 
   
  I think 10 hours but the annoyance is when your really groving to something or gaming online and the battery goes dead. Now you have to wait it seems like forever to recharge the dead battery..I'm sure using it with the HE-400 will cut the battery life in half but don't hold me to that i never gauged it but you have to remmember the HE-400 likes alot of current/power.
   
  The more you drive them it seems the better they sound and the more your brain say's turn it up some more!! In the end you will have very short battery life.
   
  Despite what everyone might say buy this or that buy something once or you will be like alot of us spending money hand over fist looking for the perfect amp in which their is none just your personal taste and color of sound that you like.
   
  To end get something with more than enough drive power/ watts.. Better to have more than not enough. The E-11 is ok but all planners need more drive power than what that puts out i'm one that knows that now from alot of experimenting...
   
  Just do your homework before buying alot of possibly unessasery amps,dacs,cables and the like that you may not like..Next  thing you know now is your changing pieces of your equiptment like crazy  looking for the perfect sound its never ending once you start lol.
   
  Good luck


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





moppelh said:


> a lot of complains about hiss on the recon3d...  the few of you who tried it, is it any good?


 
   
  Assuming that we're talking about the USB version of the Recon3D, I hear almost no hiss on a Panasonic HTF600. The noise floor isn't dead silent, but I really have to go into analytical mode to detect anything.
   
  When I'm done reviewing it, I'll send it off to Mad Lust Envy for another review geared more toward the console side of things, if he's okay with that. (Also, he can better test its amplification capabilities with the more demanding dynamics and orthos.)


----------



## I95North

Just pulled the trigger on the Recon3D usb!. wow like i really need it but at $65.00 used i could not pass it up so tuesday i should have it. I wonder if it has the same dsp chip as  turtle beach's dss2??


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Assuming that we're talking about the USB version of the Recon3D, I hear almost no hiss on a Panasonic HTF600. The noise floor isn't dead silent, but I really have to go into analytical mode to detect anything.
> 
> When I'm done reviewing it, I'll send it off to Mad Lust Envy for another review geared more toward the console side of things, if he's okay with that. (Also, he can better test its amplification capabilities with the more demanding dynamics and orthos.)


 
  So since you have it is it good for fps games?? can you tell the direction of players coming up from behind and most important hard right and left of you in close proximity??


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Just pulled the trigger on the Recon3D USB. wow like I really need it but at $65.00 used i could not pass it up so Tuesday I should have it. I wonder if it has the same DSP chip as Turtle Beach's DSS2?


 
  All Creative's sound cards (like the Recon3D USB) uses Creative's own audio processor(s).
  Turtle Beach uses someone else's audio processor.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

i95north said:


> I think 10 hours but the annoyance is when your really groving to something or gaming online and the battery goes dead. Now you have to wait it seems like forever to recharge the dead battery..I'm sure using it with the HE-400 will cut the battery life in half but don't hold me to that i never gauged it but you have to remmember the HE-400 likes alot of current/power.
> 
> The more you drive them it seems the better they sound and the more your brain say's turn it up some more!! In the end you will have very short battery life.
> 
> ...




That seems logical and I certainly don't want to get to the point of buying, and selling, just cuz I find something that may or may not be "better". Anything at this point will be better than what I've tried thus far. I do game a lot, so that amp may not be ideal. I'll have to do more research. The HE-400s should be ok with just my mixamp for now without a Mic. Thanks for the advice


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> All Creative's sound cards (like the Recon3D USB) uses Creative's own audio processor(s).
> Turtle Beach uses someone else's audio processor.


 
  oh ok cool.
   
  Man only if turtle beach's dss'2 was able to be hacked and you could custom tailor the dsp the way you wanted would be bad a$@!.
   
  EQ setting and sound angles for DDL 5.1


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mrniceguy633 said:


> That seems logical and I certainly don't want to get to the point of buying, and selling, just cuz I find something that may or may not be "better". Anything at this point will be better than what I've tried thus far. I do game a lot, so that amp may not be ideal. I'll have to do more research. The HE-400s should be ok with just my mixamp for now without a Mic. Thanks for the advice


 
  No probs..
   
  Also not for nothing some guys are running their HE-400's off of speaker taps from avr's and Home speaker amplifirers but at low volume and seem to like it that way..


----------



## Mrniceguy633

ruuku said:


> Do you need the amp to be portable? If not then a desktop amp like the O2 or E9 would be a good choice in terms of power/price. Or you could go for something higher end like M-stage, Schitt Lyr/Asgard.
> 
> For Fiio's portable amps the E11 is the current top of the line in terms of power output, but doesn't have the DAC capability like the E7, or E11 (which you shouldn't need for gaming). The lower end of the line (E1-6) may not have enough power output to really be worth it.







chicolom said:


> x2
> 
> If you don't need a _portable_ amp, don't get one.  Get a desktop amp.  The M-stage and Schiit amps are probably overkill for gaming, but E9s are cheap on the FS forum (~$80), and the O2 isn't that bad either.







mad lust envy said:


> Since he's aiming for the 32ohm DT990, I'd say go for the O2 instead of the E9, due to the output impedance which may make the treble even more prominent off the E9.




Also, thanks for the amp recommendations. The O2 seems like a good choice at a reasonable price. Also it doesn't seem too terribly big either, which is nice


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FYI, the E17 can be charged while its used.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

mad lust envy said:


> FYI, the E17 can be charged while its used.




O.o so I guess it's between the e17 and the o2 then. Good to know, thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

Hey guys, been busy but I thought I'd swoop in here with an update.

My Recon3D FINALLY arrived yesterday, apparently the USPS is so poor that they closed the hub at the neighboring city, and ALL standard mail is massively delayed. I only had a short chance to audition the Recon3D USB yesterday with Starcraft2 (not the most 3D positional game, but cutscenes are surround!), first impression is WOW! Much better and more natural sounding with 3D enabled than my Yamaha's Silent Cinema. The main difference is the lack of harsh echo, and i feel the processing is more subtle and natural. I installed Creative's software for Mac straight away and had zero issues connecting, playing with the EQ settings is cool and saving a custom profile to the processor is easy (last tab on the sidebar menu). They have a small THX video built-in to the software to dynamically test your changes while playing, but I think the native file is a little "dull" and misleading... You may end up overcooking the settings if you go just by that.

Before hearing the Recon3D, I had time from the mail delay to consider testing to see if HDMI or optical out between computer and receiver would suffice to serve as an external DAC, I'll still test for that functionality but my first impression is that the Recon3D is better suited for headphones. I read some people displaying concern about background "blackness," I admit I haven't tested specifically for that yet, but no soft static is heard while playing, and i feel there is a strong "contrast" between notes and rests, even enough to say that during a sound, I can feel the "air around the note" and it feels like its holding still, like sounds don't bleed into the background, if that makes sense... The less esoteric way to explain that is, with Starcraft2 set to "surround" and highest sound quality (no impact on FramesPS I could detect btw), sounds and effects were very crisp with authority on my Q701s.

Keep in mind, all the above is opinion based on short-term experience in a not-particularly revealing game. I just wanted to play and have fun, the analytical stuff will come tonight after I send out a few job apps  The Recon3D delivered the fun however, and powering the Q701 off of just that rather than my more powerful receiver DID NOT LEAVE ME WANTING in any easy to perceive way.

Analytical tests will be done with Xbox 360: Oblivion (immersion), Reach (Competitive SWAT mode, Campaign intro for immersion), Batman: Arkham City (immersion), and I'll probably finish the night with some super competitive CoD4  I'm ready to review my Q701 as well, I just have to wrap up what I want to say about it from the notes I've been typing.

Also, the E11 is the only amp in FiiO's current lineup that can't charge and play at the same time... Buy it from Micca Distributor to get an extra battery & external charger and you'll have no problems, or you could always buy the battery separate (it's not proprietary). I actually prefer to have swappable batteries, slap in fresh while away from charging, no noise issues while charging, no End-Of-Life from a completely dead battery.

See yinz soon!


----------



## Evshrug

Also, if I keep the Recon3D for it's DAC, but find myself wanting another amp, my amp shortlist is the E11, O2, and Little Dot i+ for synergy with my Q701. I've seen three very positive positive impressions on the Bravo Audio hybrid tube amps, but not enough reviews to take them with more than a grain of salt (and a degree of background noise is expected with pretty much any tube amp). The e17 is a decent all-rounder, jack of all trades but master of none. An improvement on the E7 for sure.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





i95north said:


> So since you have it is it good for fps games?? can you tell the direction of players coming up from behind and most important hard right and left of you in close proximity??


 
   
  Some brief testing in a TimeSplitters: Future Perfect botmatch showed that it does indeed have rear positional cues, and with less of a gap than Dolby Headphone in the 6 o'clock area.
   
  However, Dolby Headphone's positional cues have a bit more distance to them, not so close to your head.
   
  This was with the HTF600 and my original Xbox; I'm still testing the PC side of things on my desktop, where my Stax Lambda setup resides. I also have yet to test it with a Dolby Digital Live stream from the X-Fi Titanium HD, which would allow me to better analyze how it handles Dolby Digital imaging in its various modes.
   
  So far, I'm not exactly impressed with its USB PC performance relative to a proper X-Fi card, and the rear channel mixing can be rather quirky with THX TruStudio Surround off (yes, this includes turning Scout Mode on). It's better than nothing if you have a laptop that can't use a proper X-Fi card, though.
   
  I still need more time for a thorough review. I've been very busy lately, what with handling a friend's Nexus 7 16 GB for shipment overseas, now doing the same for an overseas Head-Fier who wants an X-Fi Titanium at US prices, getting my Sony GDM-FW900 (YES!), and all the work shifts that have been piling up now that I'm the only one in my position for the time being. (But at least I get paid more!)


----------



## PceLuvnSloMo

I'm about to buy an Astro Mixamp and a pair of Beyerdynamic 990 32 ohms, just waiting for the price to be right.
  I also purchased the Denon D2000 a couple months back, I'm liking the heck out of it right now, and once I get the Beyers I might do a little newbie review. 
   
  Also, as a short-term but previous owner of the Recon3D, it was an absolute cord massacre in my room (with a mic attached). I had bought these previous to me knowing that my AX720 amp could accommodate other headphones, which was the main point I returned the Recon. 
  But if you are not using these for XBOX and not using a mic, they would be excellent compared to the DSS for the price.


----------



## Evshrug

How do you know when the optical cable is in far enough? It's really tough to get it in all the way, and I'm afraid of breaking the cable lol. Seems really tight on the HD component cable that came with my Xbox & the audio dongle I got to use with my HDMI to DVI cable.

Edit: oh. I've never used an optical cable before, I didn't realize the diffused plastic tip thingie was actually a cap. Hope I didn't break anything... glad I tried first with my $3 dongle than the $70 ($130) Recon3D.


----------



## Evshrug

Edit: I orininally wrote my recon3D review in-thread, updating my post like 20 times as I played and added new notes, but for the sake of not bombing this thread I put my text in it's own review, here:

http://www.head-fi.org/products/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-thx-usb-external-sound-enhancer-for-pc-ps3-xbox-360-and-mac-sb1300/reviews/7395

If its too much, you can pretty much understand the product by reading the intro and get my opinion in the last paragraph. I hope you read it, and find it informative!


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> How do you know when the optical cable is in far enough? It's really tough to get it in all the way, and I'm afraid of breaking the cable lol. Seems really tight on the HD component cable that came with my Xbox & the audio dongle I got to use with my HDMI to DVI cable.
> Edit: oh. I've never used an optical cable before, I didn't realize the diffused plastic tip thingie was actually a cap. Hope I didn't break anything... glad I tried first with my $3 dongle than the $70 ($130) Recon3D.


 

 It worst if you break those clear adapters instead the card. That happen once, and It sucked. I had to send the Bravura back to auzentech for them to fix. Since I couldn't get it out, that's how hard it was to remove. Mono price does have Optical to tos-link cables. that are thicker and harder to break. If you worried about that happening to you.


----------



## Evshrug

genclaymore said:


> It worst if you break those clear adapters instead the card. That happen once, and It sucked. I had to send the Bravura back to auzentech for them to fix. Since I couldn't get it out, that's how hard it was to remove. Mono price does have Optical to tos-link cables. that are thicker and harder to break. If you worried about that happening to you.



Thank you for the reply.
Luckily, I realized that the objects I was talking about were protective caps, and I didn't have to force anything after removing them. Are you saying that the acrylic plastic caps that were covering the optical cable tips are also adapters? I thought they were just caps, like you get with new HDMI cables.


----------



## genclaymore

Nah not the caps that actual toslink adapter, I forgot the clear tos link adapters I have where forum when I had a Auzentech sound card. As there normally black.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DO NOT buy the big Monoprice optical cables. They can and will add stress/break your optical inputs. My original Mixamp and my soundbar's optical inputs broke because of those fancy cables. They are too heavy for the optical bays. Just buy basic optical cables.


----------



## crzycuyler

@genclaymore
   
  How do you like the A900X? I just purchased them because I got a fantastic price. I also have the AudioQuest DragonFly DAC/amp on the way because of another phenomenal deal. Have you compared the A900X to anything? How do they hold up for movies, gaming, and music in your opinion? 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

I just used the one that came with the device, seems light yet secure enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just, for everyone else...

DO NOT get these:



Get these, which are cheaper, more pliable, and won't add stress to your inputs...



Optical cables ALL sound exactly the same (information travels through light), so all you're paying for is for fancy sleeves and bulky connectors. The cheap cable is thick enough, with good strain reliefs. I've owned many, and they are all still with me. Can't say the same for the bulky one, which I tossed after it ruined my soundbar. I thought the Mixamp's input break was a freak accident. I was wrong.


----------



## pengkeplow

Hi Guys,
  Newbie here.
  Ive been lurking for a long time, searching/reading about the best headphones for gaming.
   
  I dont want to start a new thread thats why I posted here, maybe I could get some feedback.
  Basically my choice has been narrowed down to Sennheiser HD558 or HD598.
  Reading Mad Lust's recommendation, HD598 is excellent for gaming due to its great soundstage.
   
  Anyway, if anyone has tried, how does it compare to HD558?
  Before I pull the trigger on buying a new pair I just want to know if its worth it to spend extra bucks.
   
  Headphones are really expensive here in my country.
  Here are some of the prices.
  ATH M50 (214 USD) I know this has bad soundstage
  DT770 Pro80 (214 USD), I cant find these
  ATH AD700 (238 USD), Im wondering why its really expensive.. XD
  HD598 (310 USD)
  HD558 (214 USD)
  SRH 840 (214 USD)
  SRH 440 (80 USD)
   
  Help me decide guys, Im torn between the sennheisers. I will be using it mostly for gaming and a bit of music and movies.
   
  Thanks alot!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pengkeplow said:


> Basically my choice has been narrowed down to Sennheiser HD558 or HD598.  Reading Mad Lust's recommendation, HD598 is excellent for gaming due to its great soundstage.
> 
> Anyway, if anyone has tried, how does it compare to HD558?
> Before I pull the trigger on buying a new pair I just want to know if its worth it to spend extra bucks.
> ...


 
   
  Since there's almost a $100 price difference, I would have to say NO, it's not worth the extra $100 to get the HD598 over the HD558.  You can mod the HD558 to sound _almost_ like the HD598.
   
  Did you check the price of the Q701?  I'm guessing it's pretty expensive there...


----------



## pengkeplow

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Since there's almost a $100 price difference, I would have to say NO, it's not worth the extra $100 to get the HD598 over the HD558.  You can mod the HD558 to sound _almost_ like the HD598.
> 
> Did you check the price of the Q701?  I'm guessing it's pretty expensive there...


 
  QKO1 is 500 usd here


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> @genclaymore
> 
> How do you like the A900X? I just purchased them because I got a fantastic price. I also have the AudioQuest DragonFly DAC/amp on the way because of another phenomenal deal. Have you compared the A900X to anything? How do they hold up for movies, gaming, and music in your opinion?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  I enjoy the A900x very much, The last headphones I had before these was the DT880 pro-250s countless others which I don't have on hand since I sold them Thur the years. Only reason I moved from the DT880pro as I needed closed back headphones as it too noisy in my location.  I notice the vocals to me being better on these A900x, There were more things I notice. Other then the sound stage being big for a closed back headphone, of course its not big like the AKG 702s. But I don't fully recalled how the DT880 pro-250 completely sound to me.   They work very good for games to me,Tho I do use CMSS3D headphone from the X-FI Xtreme Gamer that I have plugged into my Audio-GD NFB -12 thru Spdif which I only used when I gaming.  But for music of course I use stereo, for music and movies I don't know how to explain it. I just know I enjoy them alot more then I did my DT880 pro-250 with music and movies.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey MLE, did you ever try those AKG 271 MKII's that had your interest in the "most beautiful headphones" thread?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. It was the K272HD though. Sexier, though odd, since its more expensive then the 271 MKII, doesn't have a detachable cable, or spare pads. If looks weren't a factor, the 271 is a better buy.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> I enjoy the A900x very much, The last headphones I had before these was the DT880 pro-250s countless others which I don't have on hand since I sold them Thur the years. Only reason I moved from the DT880pro as I needed closed back headphones as it too noisy in my location.  I notice the vocals to me being better on these A900x, There were more things I notice. Other then the sound stage being big for a closed back headphone, of course its not big like the AKG 702s. But I don't fully recalled how the DT880 pro-250 completely sound to me.   They work very good for games to me,Tho I do use CMSS3D headphone from the X-FI Xtreme Gamer that I have plugged into my Audio-GD NFB -12 thru Spdif which I only used when I gaming.  But for music of course I use stereo, for music and movies I don't know how to explain it. I just know I enjoy them alot more then I did my DT880 pro-250 with music and movies.


 
  I appreciate it. I wonder how the DT990 would compare. They will certainly have different sounds, but I wonder which I would prefer. My three other interests are in the DT990, AKG K550, and HD650. Isolation is proving fairly important, though. Thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I am curious how the T1 and HD 800 would fare at gaming. I can imagine the T1 very well as the T90 seems rather close, but the HD 800? The king of soundstage, detail and separation. Very curious.


----------



## Paradux

OK so I really want the DT770 pro 80ohms, but the overpowered bass is putting me off for competitive reasons (I'm maybe 50% fun, 50% competitive and I will use them with some un-amplified sources like iPhone). Obviously I'd like an all rounder more like the 990 32ohms but my budget is £130 at absolute max. It seems like the ideal situation for me is DT770s with an EQ to close the bass and open the mid when needed?
   
  Could anyone possibly suggest an alternative or should I go for it?


----------



## AccioHeadphone

sorry somehow posted in the wrong thread
  (deleted)


----------



## Evshrug

paradux said:


> OK so I really want the DT770 pro 80ohms, but the overpowered bass is putting me off for competitive reasons (I'm maybe 50% fun, 50% competitive and I will use them with some un-amplified sources like iPhone). Obviously I'd like an all rounder more like the 990 32ohms but my budget is £130 at absolute max. It seems like the ideal situation for me is DT770s with an EQ to close the bass and open the mid when needed?
> 
> Could anyone possibly suggest an alternative or should I go for it?



Well have you heard the headphone yet? YMMV always applies, and in the case of a little too much bass, a gaming EQ reduction for competitive can help a bunch. Bass EQ isn't perfect – you lose a bit of information despite calming boominess – but for gaming competitive, you don't really _need_ much detail in the bass. IMO.
How would you apply an EQ? Would you be gaming on console or PC? I got no recommendations for iPad gaming 



accioheadphone said:


> 2 Questions:
> 
> 1) Top 5 BA IEM's arond $400 price mark
> 
> 2) How effective are EQ's? For example, the Panasonic SHE 3580 is said to rival the Ety ER4P by user Joe Bloggs. Could you essentially do the same thing with a lush/colored headphone e.g. Miles Davis Tribute or something really bass heavy like Sennheiser IE8?




Not quite sure what BA stands for, but generally I'd be suprised that an IEM would be a go-to item for gaming. Comfort and soundstage would be my biggest reasons to be skeptical of an IEM being a choice over other headphone types...
That said, I have Etymotic ER-6i IEMs, and I don't think they would _hurt_ gaming. Just my ears after two hours, despite a good fit. I've never used them while gaming, but I have listened to binaural/holographic sound recordings, and imaging is very precise due in no small part to the articulate detail retrieval. But that short soundstage keeps surround processing from sounding realistic. You could eventually get used to and understand positioning cues, but it just will never be as good as an open headphone.

And EQ is no miracle-worker, small adjustments work out the best because you hit walls of distortion and lack of detail information.

I have not heard of Joe Bloggs or the Panasonic SHE... That IEM may be good, or it may be a "flavor of the month," as the Ety ER4P is very good at a very specific presentation, and the sound signature of the Panny may be "better" only in that it's "better suited" to his taste. YMMV.

But if you get used to IEM gaming, I am certain that if you ever hear a well-considered headphone gaming setup in the future, you will be amazed at what you had been missing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IEM for gaming with Dolby headphone? I'll pass. The RE0 was a decent exception, but it still doesn't replace a full sized headphone.

As for the DT770 Pro 80. It's a waste to even consider it without an amp. You're just gonna get sloppy bass and harsh treble. I don't understand why people insist on getting headphones that need amping if they're not gonna utilize them to their fullest. A better alternative is the Creative Aurvana Live, as it doesn't need amping at all. Better to have a headphone that suits your purposes, than a BETTER headphone not driven properly. Case in point: DT990/32 with a portable amp, than the DT990/600 with the same. The 32ohm sounds better, than a weakly driven 600ohm. The common misconception is that the 600ohm will sound better regardless. It doesn't.

The DT770 Pro 80 is easy to drive as far as Beyers go, but they STILL deserve an amp.

As for EQ, it can only do so much. FWIR and experienced, the best kind of EQ is reductive EQ, like lowering bass or treble. EQ should be mostly subtle, and not like trying to turn a balanced can into a bass monster, or a smooth treble'd can into a detail king. For example: dialing down the DT990's treble would be better than pumping up the DT880's bass to meet the 990's.


----------



## Paradux

evshrug said:


> Well have you heard the headphone yet? YMMV always applies, and in the case of a little too much bass, a gaming EQ reduction for competitive can help a bunch. Bass EQ isn't perfect – you lose a bit of information despite calming boominess – but for gaming competitive, you don't really _need_ much detail in the bass. IMO.
> How would you apply an EQ? Would you be gaming on console or PC? I got no recommendations for iPad gaming


 
   
  No I've not heard it (no where I can really try it) but given the positional audio potential it sounds like a winner. At the moment I do have an AV receiver hooked up to my TV via toslink and PC via HDMI with some EQ presets which should drive DT770s OK. That said...
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> As for the DT770 Pro 80. It's a waste to even consider it without an amp. You're just gonna get sloppy bass and harsh treble. I don't understand why people insist on getting headphones that need amping if they're not gonna utilize them to their fullest. A better alternative is the Creative Aurvana Live, as it doesn't need amping at all. Better to have a headphone that suits your purposes, than a BETTER headphone not driven properly. Case in point: DT990/32 with a portable amp, than the DT990/600 with the same. The 32ohm sounds better, than a weakly driven 600ohm. The common misconception is that the 600ohm will sound better regardless. It doesn't.
> The DT770 Pro 80 is easy to drive as far as Beyers go, but they STILL deserve an amp.
> As for EQ, it can only do so much. IFWIR and experienced, the best kind of EQ is reductive EQ, like lowering bass or treble. EQ should be mostly subtle, and not like trying to turn a balanced can into a bass monster, or a smooth treble'd can into a detail king. For example: dialing down the DT990's treble would be better than pumping up the DT880's bass to meet the 990's.


   

  ... I would be looking at getting a Dolby Headphone amp and drop a little bass through it. Does this sound sensible? If so could you rec an amp?
   
  The CALs look nice but I currently use SR60is and I think this would be a downgrade. Also I don't like the 'sweaty pads' really. I sweat like a beast 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SR60s wdon't make great gaming cans, as I hear their soundstage is miniscule. The CAL is basically a Denon D1001 under another brand. They're constantly overlooked because it's Creative. Don't count them out. They're really good at the $100 price point, and they can be found for well under that at times. As for the pads, I can agree with you there. I don't like pleather, but the M50s and CALs are the only two I don't mind pleather. The CAL's pleather is really soft and don't have a lot of contact area.

As for amps for the DT70 pro 80, any decent portable amp like the E11 would do them great justice. NOT the E5 or E6.


----------



## Burns11

Are there any velour pads that fit the CAL?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Regardness of whether one fits or not, pads may negatively affect the sound quality of a headphone.


----------



## Burns11

Well, yeah, but I don't think I've seen anyone talking about it and was curious.


----------



## Eric_C

mad lust envy said:


> Regardness of whether one fits or not, pads may negatively affect the sound quality of a headphone.


 
  Or _positively_.
  *glares at your HE-400 in envy*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's one very special occasion. 

Pleather usually yields better sound quality than velour (which is why I assume is more common).


----------



## Eric_C

Hm, I'm not sure. My only experience would be with the HD 25-1; in that case I can't say for sure whether velour sounded better than pleather. 
  All I know is that pleather made me sweat in my weather so it was better to swap it for velour.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You all better appreciate this. I spent HOURS obsessing over this update. :angry_face:





> *Last update: 9/4/2012
> 
> -Added Beyerdynamic Headzone to the virtual surround device list
> 
> ...







eric_c said:


> Hm, I'm not sure. My only experience would be with the HD 25-1; in that case I can't say for sure whether velour sounded better than pleather.
> All I know is that pleather made me sweat in my weather so it was better to swap it for velour.





Considering I live in Florida, and winter only lasts like 2 weeks it seems, I understand. Pleather just isn't good down here.





edit: So I just spent an hour or so A/B/C-ing the DACs between the NFB-5, Fiio E17, and Fiio D3 ($21!), all feeding the E17's internal amp.

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B0053VKP8S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346737637&sr=8-1&keywords=fiio+d3


I'm not going to lie to you all. To me, the 3 DACs sounded 99% the same. Sadly, I can't do this test with the NFB-5's amp, but oh well.

If you have an optical or digital coaxial out on your source, I'd say to buy the Fiio D3 as a DAC just so you can see how ridiculous DAC performance is overrated. All it shows me is that money is better spent on an amp than a DAC, IMHO. You'll gain a bigger boost and change in sound with an amp than a DAC, IMHO. I do feel the DAC in the D3 was better than the E7's DAC, however. For $21, it's an incredibly cheap way to have a clean sounding DAC. It just isn't for those with a need for USB DAC.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You all better appreciate this. I spent HOURS obsessing over this update.


 
   
  This is a really superb guide, and you've helped a tonne of gamers make their games sound better. For that I thank you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Aw, shucks. Thanks. I was sorta kidding. XD

I do this out of personal enjoyment. I'm glad it helps others out. I am by no means a pro or anything, and I can't see this guide being much bigger than it is (I'm not exactly rich, lol), but it's a place where we can all discuss such things. I'm a bit close minded, in that I can't recommend anything to anyone looking to play games in basic stereo (it almost all sounds the same to me in stereo positioning-wise, which is to say, not impressive), so the guide isn't very universally friendly. Lol. That and recommending headsets in less than multi-hundred dollar budgets, which is what a LOT of people ask me about in private messages. I'd love to help everyone, but sadly, it's impossible.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Aw, shucks. Thanks. I was sorta kidding. XD
> I do this out of personal enjoyment. I'm glad it helps others out. I am by no means a pro or anything, and I can't see this guide being much bigger than it is (I'm not exactly rich, lol), but it's a place where we can all discuss such things. I'm a bit close minded, in that I can't recommend anything to anyone looking to play games in basic stereo (it almost all sounds the same to me in stereo positioning-wise, which is to say, not impressive), so the guide isn't very universally friendly. Lol. That and recommending headsets in less than multi-hundred dollar budgets, which is what a LOT of people ask me about in private messages. I'd love to help everyone, but sadly, it's impossible.


 
   
  I think the positional audio and detail provided by headphones as a whole is a benefit over speakers. I use my SR60s over my 5.1 any day.


----------



## I95North

paradux said:


> I think the positional audio and detail provided by headphones as a whole is a benefit over speakers. I use my SR60s over my 5.1 any day.




 so headphones are better than true 5.1 speakers for posistional audio??


----------



## Evshrug

OMG Mad! An avatar NOT from Anime? 0o0


mad lust envy said:


> You all better appreciate this. I spent HOURS obsessing over this update. :angry_face:



Maybe it wouldn't take as long or be as frustrating if you typed with your whole hand rather than hunt&peck? LMAO I'm kidding, thanks for looking around and finding linkage.

I hear what you say about good amps with good headphones. I said as much in my Recon3D review, though I know I am guilty of mainly driving my Q701s with a FiiO E5. Upgrades come when budget allows.

Eric_C,
"All I know is that pleather made me sweatier in my weather so it was better to swap it for velour." This line has a kind of poetic cadence, with velour a rhyme suprise that made me smile. Just thought I'd share


----------



## Eric_C

Sweet, someone caught it.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> so headphones are better than true 5.1 speakers for posistional audio??



Well, directions are easier to distinguish on a true 5.1 or 7.1 loudspeaker Hi-Fi system, but speakers that can perform as well as great headphones cost SIGNIFICANTLY more. And some people just prefer the intimacy & privacy of headphones. Now, the headphone virtual surround processors do a pretty decent job with 5.1 and 7.1 surround sources, but computer games can create true binaural 3D sound that isn't limited to 7.1 speaker channels, filling in the positioning holes and accounting for sounds above and below in addition to front and back.

So overall, my opinion is that "headphones [with virtual surround] are better than true 5.1 speakers," at least from the standpoint of detail and accuracy. Also in no small part due to keeping my mom off my back


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, directions are easier to distinguish on a true 5.1 or 7.1 loudspeaker Hi-Fi system, but speakers that can perform as well as great headphones cost SIGNIFICANTLY more. And some people just prefer the intimacy & privacy of headphones. Now, the headphone virtual surround processors do a pretty decent job with 5.1 and 7.1 surround sources, but computer games can create true binaural 3D sound that isn't limited to 7.1 speaker channels, filling in the positioning holes and accounting for sounds above and below in addition to front and back.
> So overall, my opinion is that "headphones [with virtual surround] are better than true 5.1 speakers," at least from the standpoint of detail and accuracy. Also in no small part due to keeping my mom off my back


 

 Yea, years ago  my dad told me he was gonna throw my speakers out in the trash if i didn't turn them down.


----------



## calpis

Hah, kinda happened when I was playing Syndicate with my speakers+sub. About 30sec after the dubstep boss fight started, the pounding and yelling at my bedroom door started and I had to swap to headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I do this out of personal enjoyment. I'm glad it helps others out. I am by no means a pro or anything, and I can't see this guide being much bigger than it is (I'm not exactly rich, lol), but it's a place where we can all discuss such things. I'm a bit close minded, in that I can't recommend anything to anyone looking to play games in basic stereo (it almost all sounds the same to me in stereo positioning-wise, which is to say, not impressive), so the guide isn't very universally friendly. Lol. That and recommending headsets in less than multi-hundred dollar budgets, which is what a LOT of people ask me about in private messages. I'd love to help everyone, but sadly, it's impossible.


 
   
  Well, I'm sure glad you've done so! This guide is a great help to us all.
   
  That underlined part also gives me a lot of trouble, because the AD700s are generally not favored anymore ever since the SR850 showed up, and I haven't tried that one. The only headphones I can recommend for gaming right now, _without hesitation_, are second-hand Stax Lambda setups, and those make a lot of headphones on this list seem downright affordable because of the amplification requirements that electrostatics have.
   
  It's why I point people to your guide, actually; you have experience with more affordable headphones alongside the more expensive stuff like D7000s and HE-400s.


----------



## ZeneticX

hey mad lust envy. i was wondering would you ever post a review for corsair's new gaming headsets line up ?
   
http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-gaming/vengeance-gaming-headsets.html
   
  i read a review from another site the other day and they claim the vengeance 1300 is pretty decent, given its price tag


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As I just mentioned, I can't say much about headsets, especially ones not on my guide. I don't like headsets, and I don't like to recommend anything I haven't tried myself.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Off topic here but!...
   
  Alright boys! I think I might get my radiator problem fixed with FrozenCPU. Though it's not their fault they are going to correct it. (Defective Radiator possibly.) Thought I'd let you guys know and give a shout out to FrozenCPU.com!


----------



## japatml

Q701, K701/702 or HD598 for games and musics? X-Fi Titanium HD support all cited headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd choose the Q701 out of those, for sure. Not sure if the Titanium HD has a built in amp or not, but for gaming, I'm sure it'd be fine,


----------



## genclaymore

The Titanium HD doesn't have a headphone amp, creative info is misleading.  Also I would say the Q701 as well just from seeing a couple of people mentioning that it  easy to drive. You def do not want a AKG K702 I used to have one and boy its picky with which every amp you use with it. I did in up finding something that worked nice with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 ais as hard to drive as the K701/2. It just has a fuller sound, so it SEEMS easier to drive. It isn't. They both need quality amping, and they are both very picky with amps. By far the pickiest headphone I have used in terms of amping.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 ais as hard to drive as the K701/2. It just has a fuller sound, so it SEEMS easier to drive. It isn't. They both need quality amping, and they are both very picky with amps. By far the pickiest headphone I have used in terms of amping.


 
   
  This.
   
  The K702 and Q701 I compared both took the same amount of juice, but the Q701 was a bit weightier and the K702 a bit lighter sounding at the same volume level - makes it _seem _like the Q701 is easier to drive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I forgot to mention this, but Astro seems to have completely discontinued the Mixamp 5.8 (can't even buy it in a bundle). Looks like they are forcing people to buy the A50, meaning no more external headphones.

Makes me wonder if they'll do away with the Mixamp Pro, or at least force you to get it with the A30/A40.

GET IT WHILE YOU CAN!


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The Titanium HD doesn't have a headphone amp, creative info is misleading.  Also I would say the Q701 as well just from seeing a couple of people mentioning that it  easy to drive. You def do not want a AKG K702 I used to have one and boy its picky with which every amp you use with it. I did in up finding something that worked nice with.


 

 I own the Titanium-HD, totally worth it. As for the amp, PurpleAngel or Obobskivich would be the two best people to ask IMO to my knowledge.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *darrengray*
> 
> 
> i think the Titanium HD has no amp built in.
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Technically, every audio device with analog outputs is amplified. The question is how it's amplified. The Titanium HD circuit doesn't seem to be optimized for extremely demanding dynamic/ortho headphones, but I wouldn't know for sure without having one to test with and a dedicated headphone amp to compare against.


 
  I know it has an amp but I am not sure how far it can drive headphones.
   
  If you can make sense of these to pages then this will answer your question but if you are not good in science or math it can be overwhelming.
  http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
  http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I forgot to mention this, but Astro seems to have completely discontinued the Mixamp 5.8 (can't even buy it in a bundle). Looks like they are forcing people to buy the A50, meaning no more external headphones.
> Makes me wonder if they'll do away with the Mixamp Pro, or at least force you to get it with the A30/A40.
> GET IT WHILE YOU CAN!


 
   
  I still see some bundles: http://www.astrogaming.com/a30-wireless-system
   
  But I DO NOT approve of them not selling the mixamp 5.8 standalone.
   
  I DO approve of someone more companies getting into the surround sound headphone amps game!  (FiiOOoooo)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I somehow didn't see how to look at the bundles. My bad. I was mistaken, lol.

So I've decided to return the DT990/32. I love them. I don't feel bad, as they were bought used with a 30 day return window. 

Yet again, where I work, my company lost the contract to, so at the end of this month, I don't know if my company will have anywhere to put me. I rather save the $200 for now.

If/when I know I have a set contract again, I'll probably get the Pro 900 again. Now that I have the E17, I can tame the treble a bit (I find it a bit more metallic than the 990's). Besides, my last Pro 900 had a channel imbalance.

It just makes more sense to have a closed compliment to the HE-400, especially since I can't really lay down with the HE-400 without affect the SQ (the pillows tend to block part of the grills). I'd love to the The T50RP/Mad Dogs, but not until there are velour pads for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Philips Fidelio X1



Easily the sexiest headphone I've seen in awhile. (right up there with the SRH1840).

It's gonna be $390, 30ohm, 50mm neodymium drivers (angled), has memory foam velour, and is open. Those who have tested it say it has a really big soundstage, with a natural tonal balance, being ever so slightly bass light.

That sounds like a damn winner for gaming, IMHO. Possibly a competitor vs the Q701? ETA: this month.

The headband component is breathable mesh and seems to be like the Q701 (self adjusting), which is to say, AWESOME. I just hope it has enough extension for bigger heads. The Q701 could use more extension.

I want one. I do. 

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7bSQavUvFo[/VIDEO]

Damn, I'd get one just because of how damn sexy it is. It's ticking all the right boxes for me, except maybe not having enough bass...


----------



## Atavax

I have a pair of hd598's, but i see for the mixamp pro and Tritton AX 720 you say that through the USB only stereo is possible; as a pc gamer is DH unattainable? Is DH like n-key rollover, simply not possible through a usb connection?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I own the Titanium-HD, totally worth it. As for the amp, PurpleAngel or Obobskivich would be the two best people to ask IMO to my knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yea the Titanium HD is a great card, but I also used to own a Titanium HD my self and I had to use a external Amp with it, I should say it doesn't have a decent headphone amp as you right it still have headphone buffer which is  some form of amp it just not a decent one.   Cause I did tried plugging in DT880 pro-250 directly into the card, it didn't do a good job and it did not sound the way it should, and i even tried using the front panel audio jack with the same results. So I plugged it back into the matrix M-Stage V2 I had at the time with the card. So i was saying from experience that it didn't.
   
  Also certain low ohm headphones will not get much power from the Titanium HD as well, like the two that was already mentioned.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Since when did we start getting +rep? Well the helpful icon.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Philips Fidelio X1
> 
> Easily the sexiest headphone I've seen in awhile. (right up there with the SRH1840).
> It's gonna be $390, 30ohm, 50mm neodymium drivers (angled), has memory foam velour, and is open. Those who have tested it say it has a really big soundstage, with a natural tonal balance, being ever so slightly bass light.
> ...


 
   
  I think the new K550 are uber sexy. Thought I have to say on headphones that cost more than 250 bucks should require a detatchable cord, i.e. be able to replace it if need be! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> Yea the Titanium HD is a great card, but I also used to own a Titanium HD my self and I had to use a external Amp with it, I should say it doesn't have a decent headphone amp as you right it still have headphone buffer which is  some form of amp it just not a decent one.   Cause I did tried plugging in DT880 pro-250 directly into the card, it didn't do a good job and it did not sound the way it should, and i even tried using the front panel audio jack with the same results. So I plugged it back into the matrix M-Stage V2 I had at the time with the card. So i was saying from experience that it didn't.
> 
> Also certain low ohm headphones will not get much power from the Titanium HD as well, like the two that was already mentioned.


 
   
  I am still learning all this. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I know low impedance is more dependent on current and higher impedance is dependent more on volts. It still confuses me on the calculations. I think I will find a science professor today at school and ask them to explain it on the chalk board lol. I understand the science, hell I am amazing at science, I lack in math as I still have never taken Calc even.


----------



## japatml

Sorry, my english is very bad. Q701 need for amp or the X-Fi Titanium HD bear?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Philips Fidelio X1
> 
> Easily the sexiest headphone I've seen in awhile. (right up there with the SRH1840).
> It's gonna be $390, 30ohm, 50mm neodymium drivers (angled), has memory foam velour, and is open. Those who have tested it say it has a really big soundstage, with a natural tonal balance, being ever so slightly bass light.
> ...


 

 Damn, sexy indeed. If those really are a step up from the Q701, I might have to sell my beloved DT990...


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





japatml said:


> Sorry, my english is very bad. Q701 need for amp or the X-Fi Titanium HD bear?


 

 Q701 must be amped, yes. The Titanium HD does have a form of amp but it will not be nearly enough to power those cans. Xonar STX would be a better choice if you need an SC/Amp combo. I personally have the Q701, Tit-HD, and an O2 amp.
   
  Edit. Actually it might be able to power the Q701 alone as the Q701 have an impedance of 62 Ohms. The THD can only power up to 33Ohm headphones through the front panel jack. However it can support up to 330Ohms at 117dBA. I would still advice an out sourced amp as.... I am not sure the current rating on the THD.


----------



## japatml

O2 amp would be this: http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full ?
   
  is the best in this price range?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, the Q701 is very hard to drive. DO NOT look at ohms as a way to see if a headphone is easy or hard to drive. The HE-4 is like 35ohm, and one of the hardest things to drive in the headphone world. You can't even get a decent volume off a some desktop amps with it.

And yes, the O2 is sold by JDS Labs here in America.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Again, the Q701 is very hard to drive. DO NOT look at ohms as a way to see if a headphone is easy or hard to drive. The HE-4 is like 35ohm, and one of the hardest things to drive in the headphone world. You can't even get a decent volume off a some desktop amps with it.
> And yes, the O2 is sold by JDS Labs here in America.


 

 http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html


----------



## boomer12

How do the new Astro A50s compare to DT990s?  My DT990s sound incredible but I'd really like to go wireless.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's like asking how a Kia fares against a BMW. Apparently, the A50 sounds inferior to the A40 (some AVS A40 fanboys didn't like the A50). The A40 can't compare to an audiophile headphone.

You take quality, or take practicality. Depends on what sacrifices you'd like. I'd say the Mixamp 5.8 for your DT990s, but Scumbag Astro won't sell them alone anymore.

Ninjasushi, I don't know why you linked me to that, but ask many knowledgeable people on head-fi, and they will all tell you that the Q701 is one of the hardest dynamic headphones to drive. They CAN get loud enough even out of a Fiio E5, but you'll be sorely lacking sound quality vs a better amp. That's why we say that it's very finicky with what you amp them with.

The same goes with the Premium Beyers. They all can get very loud off any amp, but without some decent equipment, they won't sound half as good as they should.


----------



## Evshrug

naingolann said:


> Damn, sexy indeed. If those really are a step up from the Q701, I might have to sell my beloved DT990...



I think he meant extension as in how far the headband extends for larger head sizes. SQ is as of yet untested by Mad, or anyone else in comparison to the Q701 from what I've seen, though the Philips Fidelio f1 was featured in the head-Fi summer headphone guide.

I got to try The Philips downtown (and so can you!) at my local Best Buy yesterday, and I thought it actually sounded pretty good. Definitely had more body and pleased me more than the Sennheiser 438 or whatever it was they had on display, which sounded thin when A/B tested. I think an amp would clearly help the system, though there is pbviously signal splitter junk between e headphone and source (either the Best Buy provided source or your own player). The fit comfort was a little strange, it's like the thick, flat pads seen on some other models of Sennheiser, Bowers&Wilkin's (though obviously of a different material), and Bose headphones, but you set the "speaker hole" part directly in line with your earcanal opening and let the back ridge of your ears mooish into the pad. It's kinda hard to explain, but the feeling is like a memory foam pillow covered in microfiber. I thought the Uptown model looked really cheap, The worst offense was how the earpads looked like the the pleather had just been stretched over the earcups than designed to fit into the cup somewhere.

Did not hear the F1 model, but I think they were selling it if you wanted to buy & return.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
Love Jeff Buckley and that particular song is very haunting, have not heard that AZEDIA remix. Also, I think Jude prefers the A30s over the A40s for gaming... LOL! Maybe their cheapest headphone is their best effort?

NinjaSushi,
My E5 amps my Q701 _loud enough_, and so does my Gen 5.5 iPod Video 30GB, to an improvement over my AD700... But the volume is like one or two steps from max, and you can feel it wants more juice. Recently I've been tempted to try out the Bravo Tube amp V2... If I go that route, it'll be in my Q701 review.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's like asking how a Kia fares against a BMW. Apparently, the A50 sounds inferior to the A40 (some AVS A40 fanboys didn't like the A50). The A40 can't compare to an audiophile headphone.
> You take quality, or take practicality. Depends on what sacrifices you'd like. I'd say the Mixamp 5.8 for your DT990s, but Scumbag Astro won't sell them alone anymore.


 
  I've actually been using my DT990s 32omhs with a 5.8 mixamp (thanks to this thread).  Fantastic setup, just didn't know if there was a potential better one without buying a new dedicated amp or something.
   
  Can't believe the A50 sounds worse than the A40.  The A40 made everything sound like it was being run through a hollow tin can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That Bravo tube amp is very entry level for an amp, though should be better for the Qs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

boomer12 said:


> I've actually been using my DT990s 32omhs with a 5.8 mixamp (thanks to this thread).  Fantastic setup, just didn't know if there was a potential better one without buying a new dedicated amp or something.
> 
> Can't believe the A50 sounds worse than the A40.  The A40 made everything sound like it was being run through a hollow tin can.




Well, the A50 is fuller sounding, but not as detailed. Kinda like exhanging clarity for fun. I haven't heard them, so I can't be certain.


----------



## Evshrug

ninjasushi2 said:


> http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html



TL; DR (I finally figured out what that means! Now I know why I got it all the time in replies and comments...)

Basically, ohms are part of it, and so is sensitivity. Head-Fi'ers generally say a headphone is hard to drive if it needs a lot of current.



mad lust envy said:


> That Bravo tube amp is very entry level for an amp, though should be better for the Qs.



It indeed is very entry level, but I have even more of an entry level budget than you do. Would I be "happier" if I wait for an O2? That's what I'm trying to find out, but it's just a decision in the end and an overall inconsequential fork in the road of life. Blip!

Oh, also, I noticed the Downtown has a flat cable


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Philips Fidelio X1
> 
> Easily the sexiest headphone I've seen in awhile. (right up there with the SRH1840).
> It's gonna be $390, 30ohm, 50mm neodymium drivers (angled), has memory foam velour, and is open. Those who have tested it say it has a really big soundstage, with a natural tonal balance, being ever so slightly bass light.
> ...


 
   
  Mmmm, that pushes all the right buttons for me.  I don't know much about Philips headphones, but their headphone designer is my new hero.
   
  That velour looks delicious.  That's how high end headphones _should _look *cough Denon*.  I just hope it sounds as sexy as it looks. 
   
  For $150 more than the average Q701 price, you'd _expect _some improvements, but we'll have to see.  It's hard to best the Q701 in soundstage.
   
  It actually looks similar in a lot of ways to the Q701.  Quincy Jones may have to sue


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Basically, ohms are part of it, and so is sensitivity. Head-Fi'ers generally say a headphone is hard to drive if it needs a lot of current.


 
  Eh? I thought headphones either need a lot of current, or a lot of voltage--and you need amps spec'd differently for each purpose.


----------



## moppelh

Damn you people! I just ordered a Q701, recon3d and Fiio E11, and now you keep saying how hard it is to drive! I hate you all!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the purpose of GAMING, the E11 should be enough. Virtual surround tends to mask lack of power. You will be fine.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





moppelh said:


> Damn you people! I just ordered a Q701, recon3d and Fiio E11, and now you keep saying how hard it is to drive! I hate you all!


 
   
  Q701? 5 days ago you asked about the DT 990 + E11: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-4-2012-headzone-added-revised-layout-links/7275#post_8660416
   
  Also, Mad's original post stated:
"Like the K701, they (the Q701) desire amping when using voice chat. The sound also scales with amping, but isn't really necessary."
   
  Besides, the discussion so far has been on the Q701 + E5, not E11. It's a fact that the E11 is more powerful than the E5--whether it's powerful enough, I don't know, I'm just saying you might be extrapolating incorrectly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To clear things up, the Q701 can get loud off anything. However, the better the amp, the better the sound the Q701s will have. Certain headphones just need to hit a point where the sound won't change much even with much more powerful/expensive amps. The Q701 rewards you with stronger, and better amps. 

Will they sound good off the E11? I'm sure they will. Should just stick to the E11 for music/gaming/etc? No. The Q701 deserves more, but as I mentioned, for the purpose of gaming, the E11 will definitely be enough.

When you're gaming in virtual surround, amping isn't as important as when you're listening to music in stereo. You're too busy playing the game, than intimately listening to music.

This is why headphones like the Q701 perform better than say the HE-400. For GAMING, the Q701 hits more sweet spots than the HE-400.

Now if you want a cheap amp that will do the Q701 justice, I ASSUME the O2 would be a terrific starting point.


----------



## Eric_C

What! I thought you made the HE-400 out to be the bee's knees for both gaming and music! I ordered a pair with velour pads because of you!
   
   
   
   
  Now I'll just have to power them with my Corda Rock amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well yes, the HE400 is very much amazing for gaming. I mean that it's more impressive for music vs the Q701, compared to gaming, where the Q701 has better positioning and soundstage, as well as a more detail oriented sound.


----------



## Phos

So just some quick explanations of what can go wrong with an amp AFAIK, low sensitivity and impedance headphones can sound bad because many amps distort more as they near their current limit.  A lot of amps and particularly PC headphone outs have highish output impedances which causes low frequency ringing during low notes, this sounds like "farty" indistinct bass on lower impedance phones, and some phones such as AKGs and Sennheisers also have really strange impedance curves, off high output impedance amps (such as though built into motherboards and the like) "warp" the frequency response (Increase in relative response at frequencies with higher impedance), which I suspect lead to the reputation a lot of headphones have.  Senns get a midbass hump and AKGs suddenly exaggerate everything over 10K Hz, and Beyers loose a bit of midrange.


----------



## Wo33er

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't know the prices in your area, but I would suggest the HD555 with some of the easymods documented on Head-Fi, Creative Aurvana Live!, or AD700.





> The Asus Xonar DX is also highly recommended around Head-Fi for value, but of course you have to compare prices. You're probably best off getting a refurbished decent soundcard.


 
   
  To give an update on the fantastic advice I received earlier in the thread, I've jumped up a bit from the intended JVC RX700 purchase and settled on a pair of HD555's and an Xonar DGX. They'll be arriving today so I'll get to try them out when I get home and determine if my first foray into decent audio is worthwhile. On that note what would be a suggested game or even video to use as a good tester? My last pair of headphones, a cheap £15 Skype logitech-thing, is USB so it should be easy and interesting to compare the two.
   
  I was thinking Amnesia as the sound immersion in that game is brilliant, but not sure how good it is with Dolby Headphones etc. Source is another option, but hard to do direct comparisons given the need for a fire fight.
   
  Cheers again everyone for helping and Evshrug for the long detailed replies. <3


----------



## Evshrug

moppelh said:


> Damn you people! I just ordered a Q701, recon3d and Fiio E11, and now you keep saying how hard it is to drive! I hate you all!



Don't feel bad, That's a throng contender for the setup I was considering getting. The e11 technically measures very well for a sub-$100 amp, and has a sonic signature (though not as powerful) very similar to the Objective2 amp, which costs a bit over twice as much if you buy it pre-assembled (assuming USA). The E11 has about twice as much power as an E5, slightly more than twice as much into higher Ohm headphones. It also scales well to sensitive headphones.
Here are the E11 power output stats (not the whole musical story mind you):
   Voltage=H  300mW(16Ω) ;
   200mW(32Ω); 35mW(300Ω)

   Voltage=L  120mW(16Ω);
   88mW(32Ω); 13mW(300Ω)

And then the E5 I'm currently relying on (since my receiver must stay in a box most of the time):
   150mW (16Ω Loaded)
   16mW (300Ω Loaded)

I don't know the stats of other amps, but I'm sure the O2's designer's blog (quoted in Ninjasushi's last post) has the output specifications listed.

Edit: I had this post typed last night, and fell asleep. Right now I'm not so sure how useful it is... especially in the light of reading Ninjasushi's extensive research into the power requirements for a headphone to achieve a particular dB volume. While the math DOES calculate power's (i'm using powere here to refer to both current and impedance) relation to volume with set variables, and a more versatile amps that can provide adaquate power to low and high impedance loads can be an indicator of an overall well-designed system... The equation and research is all to calculate dB VOLUME. My point is, the equations are not solving for dynamic characteristics that can be vastly different at a given volume, characteristics like transparency, soundstage and layering, speed of attack and decay (tightness?), frequency modulation, etc. I have no idea how to solve (calculate) for those. Maybe somebody does, but I have a feeling the complexity, "known unknowns," and "unknown unknowns" lead amp design (and customer auditioning) to be somewhat of an experimental process.

After all, biologists used to assume frogs were spawned from rain.



wo33er said:


> To give an update on the fantastic advice I received earlier in the thread, I've jumped up a bit from the intended JVC RX700 purchase and settled on a pair of HD555's and an Xonar DGX. They'll be arriving today so I'll get to try them out when I get home and determine if my first foray into decent audio is worthwhile. On that note what would be a suggested game or even video to use as a good tester? My last pair of headphones, a cheap £15 Skype logitech-thing, is USB so it should be easy and interesting to compare the two.
> 
> I was thinking Amnesia as the sound immersion in that game is brilliant, but not sure how good it is with Dolby Headphones etc. Source is another option, but hard to do direct comparisons given the need for a fire fight.
> 
> Cheers again everyone for helping and Evshrug for the long detailed replies. <3




Yay for updates! I think you should easily hear a difference in refinement, lmao. TBH, neophytes to the "journey" sometimes find the highest-end of audio to be boring in signature, so a smaller first step like you took is usually a better balance between tastes old and new.

I haven't played Amnesia, but from YouTube clips I've seen that is ONE. INTENSE. GAME, and it relies more on creepiness and audio than fast action. I'm sure it will be a great test  Horror and FPS games in general are good tests. Let us know how it go.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Amnesia: The Dark Descent sure is getting a lot of attention in here.
   
  But if you want to get the most out of the sound in that game, READ THIS!
   
  I'd actually advise skipping the ALchemy steps, but it's a shame that Frictional Games chose to use OpenAL, only to not really take advantage of it by only supporting the "Generic Software" device and requiring .INI file edits to make use of other software OpenAL devices or hardware acceleration.
   
  It's written with X-Fi cards in mind, but if C-Media cards like Xonars also list themselves as actual OpenAL devices, this can help you too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First home impression on the Philips Fidelio X1.




bizkid said:


> Well for now i can say that the X1 is bass heavy, especially considering these are open headphones. It's probably one of most bass heavy and punchy _open_ headphone i've heard yet (see history in my profile, didnt listen to the Audeze and open Ultrasones yet).  I'm not really a bass head but i'm easy to please and can adapt to pretty much every headphone out there. The good thing: the mids are not suffering from the bass and remain clear. I really wonder how they did that since most other companies fail at mixing big bass with nice mids. It doesnt have quite the clear and natural mids the Shure 1840 has to offer but for my taste i like them better than the mids from the T90. Besides that i find the X1 more involving than both, soundstage sounds very coherent while both the Shure and more so the T90 suffers from a 3-blob stage where the left, center and right are too seperated from each other. I think Philips did everything right with the angled 50mm driver construction. Comfort is very good. Treble makes them appear very slightly on the "warm" side of things.




So a bit different than the earlier brief impressions.

Bassy, open, with a warm signature.

Now I MUST listen to these.


----------



## thelegend0210

Hey everyone, new here and hoping to get some quick advice. At work so don't have time to read through 500 pages of this thread and can't find what I'm looking for through the search.

 I'm wanting to buy some surround sound gaming headphones, I'll be gaming on the Xbox 360 but I also want to be able to watch movies using them and getting surround sound through my receiver.
 Been doing some reading on Dolby Headphone technology, but want to make sure I understand it all.
   
  My current setup is all my audio going through my Pioneer VSX-92TXH.
  The headphones I've been looking at are the Tritton Warheads.
  Now my receiver says it has 'headphone surround', but with the headphones having dolby headphone tech, does it even matter?
  Basically I'm wondering if it's the receiver or the headphones that sets the surround sound feature.
   
  Also, any input on the Tritton Warhead headphones? Are they actually worth the $300?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FWIR on the avsforum, the Turtle Beach XP400 seems to be the most favored of the wireless headsets. They won't compare to headphones, but the practicality and functionality is there.

The device gives Dolby Headphone, not the headset. The Pioneer's headphone surround is another flavor of virtual surround like Dolby Headphone. It may be better or worse for you. If you wanna plug in your headphones to the receiver, you do not need a headphone with dolby headphone, unless you want DH, which you won't hook up to the receiver (these devices don't transmit Dolby Headphone digitally. They only transmit it to the headset, and MAYBE to their headphone jacks (if they have one).


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Don't feel bad, That's a throng contender for the setup I was considering getting. The e11 technically measures very well for a sub-$100 amp, and has a sonic signature (though not as powerful) very similar to the Objective2 amp, which costs a bit over twice as much if you buy it pre-assembled (assuming USA). The E11 has about twice as much power as an E5, slightly more than twice as much into higher Ohm headphones. It also scales well to sensitive headphones.
> Here are the E11 power output stats (not the whole musical story mind you):
> Voltage=H  300mW(16Ω) ;
> 200mW(32Ω); 35mW(300Ω)
> ...


 

 Yeah... It was a good thread post but got deleted because of mentioning you know who and links to his website. Strictly based of backing my research but never the less. I will speak to the mod and see if he can edit it in a PM so I can repost it as I am uncertain how much I can speak on, vise versa.
   
  Here is the low-low on what it was all about. Ohms or impedance is the resistance a headphone has. dB SPL is the decibel sound pressure level. SPL is slightly different than say just dB or even dBA. But over all without too much detail, it's how it sounds and reacts to the ear. Not however like dBA which is a hearing contour, how the ear perceives sound.
   
  So some basics. Ohms is the resistance of an object, current is the flow of electricity through it, voltage is a rail or also called a parameter. Headphones go off a 0V to max V rail. Basically lets say at Peak 7 volts so 0-7Vs. dB SPL is measured usually at 1 mW. (I.E. Q701 are 105 dB SPL @ 1mW) 62 Ohm resistant headphones and no required minimum voltage or current that I know of.
  If we say anything in the low 30s is low impedance, (I.E. 32,33 Ohms), then we know that these headphones require a higher current to drive them. (This does not mean they will sound better but it means they will produce noise properly. Then if we go on to state 100 Ohms and up are high impedance headphones, we know they require higher voltage to run. E.G. High impedance is higher resistance and the more resistance we have the more voltage is needed to power the phones.
   
  So the Q701 are really in an awkward location. Right in the middle between low and high impedance headphones. So we can base an amp off it's max peak to peak voltage or one off how much current it can channel. We have to suggest an all rounder amp. (I.E. This is why the O2 is a very good amp for the Q701.) I am no scientist nor do I hold a degree in engineering. I am just an enthusiast who loves math and science and being a nerd. So if someone more qualified find an error in my math or theory then please forgive me and correct it in a quote with bold text. Other than that I hope you enjoy the following as it took my hours of research and math to make sure I was perceiving the information correctly.
   
  I think I should be able to post this as long as I filter out the O2 maker's links and name. Not sure on the pictures but bear with me.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Spoiler: Prelude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  ***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
  Eh.. I am too lazy to fix it now but some of that info in there above the links was in quotes last time I posted it. Just know not all the information is mine. I don't really remember what was quoted as I can't see the original post.


----------



## I95North

Hah? What ?? 

Would impedance be what your explaining??

I always thought it was the opposite of dc resistance.


----------



## thelegend0210

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> FWIR on the avsforum, the Turtle Beach XP400 seems to be the most favored of the wireless headsets. They won't compare to headphones, but the practicality and functionality is there.
> The device gives Dolby Headphone, not the headset. The Pioneer's headphone surround is another flavor of virtual surround like Dolby Headphone. It may be better or worse for you. If you wanna plug in your headphones to the receiver, you do not need a headphone with dolby headphone, unless you want DH, which you won't hook up to the receiver (these devices don't transmit Dolby Headphone digitally. They only transmit it to the headset, and MAYBE to their headphone jacks (if they have one).


 
  Thanks!
   
  It's all starting to make sense to me now.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> First home impression on the Philips Fidelio X1.
> So a bit different than the earlier brief impressions.
> Bassy, open, with a warm signature.
> Now I MUST listen to these.


 
   
  Those impressions make it seem sort of like Q701 (slightly warm) but with more bass and probably a more intimate soundstage. 
   
  I expect you to test these bad boys out for us!


----------



## Wo33er

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Let us know how it go.


 
   
  Bad -_-.
   
  Installed sound card and plugged in headphones ready to go. No Windows 8 drivers. Windows 7 drives won't work. No news or information in regards to there being Windows 8 drivers coming soon... dammit. With no choice I reluctantly put them into my motherboard on-board sound card only to find that it's only producing sound out of the right -_-. /cry
   
  On the plus side I quickly tested them in my laptop and the headphones are fine working left and right, just means it might be a month or two until I can even use them at this rate :|


----------



## Evshrug

wo33er said:


> Bad -_-.
> 
> Installed sound card and plugged in headphones ready to go. No Windows 8 drivers. Windows 7 drives won't work. No news or information in regards to there being Windows 8 drivers coming soon... dammit. With no choice I reluctantly put them into my motherboard on-board sound card only to find that it's only producing sound out of the right -_-. /cry
> 
> On the plus side I quickly tested them in my laptop and the headphones are fine working left and right, just means it might be a month or two until I can even use them at this rate :|




I feel your pain, I somehow corrupted the audio drivers for my Mac during a system update, and I didn't have ANY sound for like a month. Starcraft2 got harder 
When I had to sell my iPod Touch, my older iPod 5th gen came out of storage. When my computer audio gave up the ghost, I really started depending on my older iPod. I remember how I really loved some things about it, like the simpler menu system and the hard-to-quantify-but-repeatedly-demonstrated better song shuffle mode (I don't know why but it seems to dig up the "right" tracks very frequently, while the iPod Touch repeatedly embarrassed me by setting the wrong mood). Even after I fixed my computer's audio with my Recon3D purchase, I still pretty much listen to music off my iPod exclusively.

In fact I'm too tired for threads right now, I'm going to slip into something more relaxing ^_^


----------



## japatml

What amplifier recommend for Q701? the aforementioned O2?


----------



## AxelCloris

I game with an E9 I picked up off MLE. Dolby headphone into the E9 then out to my Q701s using the 1/4" output. Sounds fantastic. I haven't heard the O2 firsthand, but from what people have mentioned with it in another thread (Q701 appreciation) the O2 pairs nicely.


----------



## Evshrug

I like chocolate milk!


----------



## I95North

Hey Strawberry milk by far is best lol..

Oh yeah and the HE-400 is dark blue !!


----------



## chicolom

I like turtles!


----------



## AxelCloris

I always get a chuckle when someone randomly recognizes Cheese.
   
  Also, for any PC gamers Amazon still has about a day and a half left on their Labor Day sale. Some nice games on there that go well with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## japatml

What amplifier recommend for Q701? the aforementioned O2? Help!


----------



## Phos

Yeah the O2 should pair great with the Q701.


----------



## Paradux

So I ordered the DT770 pros. Now I'm stuck. For console Dolby Headphone is the Astro mixamp my only real option?


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





paradux said:


> So I ordered the DT770 pros. Now I'm stuck. For console Dolby Headphone is the Astro mixamp my only real option?


 
  First page is your friend... and so is MLE for writing the guide. 
  Mixamp, AX720 Decoder box, DSS/DSS2, Recon, reciever with DH/SC, Headzone amp all have their positives/negatives. Give more information and you'll be rewarded with a better recommendation based on your needs:
  What system are you going to be playing on?
  How important is voice chat?
  How much is your budget?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, does the Recon 3D USB decode DTS? I can't remember if this was answered.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Guys, does the Recon 3D USB decode DTS? I can't remember if this was answered.


 
   
  It does NOT. I tried it myself; all you get is silence.
   
  You'll have to use the SU-DH1 for any DTS sources.
   
  Everyone else, prepare for more surround processor reviews! (Too bad one of them is discontinued, and it happens to be the ONLY reasonably-priced one with DTS support.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh, considering how everything is moving towards DTS, this is unnaceptable that all these NON-Dolby specific devices not decode DTS. That is just STUPID.


----------



## calpis

Just a heads up to anyone that wants a cheap solution to get DH on your PC. There's a few of the Plantronics Gamecom 777 usb adapters on ebay from around $9-$15 shipped and it does do DH. I have had the dongle since I bought that headset a couple years ago and works fine (never really used it since I mainly game on consoles).
   
  Side note: This dongle processes audio to DH only by going from Dolby Pro Logic II -> 5.1 -> Dolby headphone. This is something I just realized when I was reading into it today. This only accepts 2 channel audio and there's no way to set it up to take in a pure 5.1 audio stream. But for the most part, it still works fine when testing this with the 5.1 mix of Gunbuster and setting the output as DPLII with ac3filter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So basically, it will do the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone?

That's... not bad. the PLII version sounds echoey and extra processed in comparison to a DD 5.1 -> DH, but the positional cues are nearly as good, and at times, better than the real thing.

For that cheap, I'd get it...if I gamed on PC.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

evshrug said:


> TL; DR (I finally figured out what that means! Now I know why I got it all the time in replies and comments...)
> Basically, ohms are part of it, and so is sensitivity. Head-Fi'ers generally say a headphone is hard to drive if it needs a lot of current.
> It indeed is very entry level, but I have even more of an entry level budget than you do. Would I be "happier" if I wait for an O2? That's what I'm trying to find out, but it's just a decision in the end and an overall inconsequential fork in the road of life. Blip!
> Oh, also, I noticed the Downtown has a flat cable




Agreed but current (amps) is useful for low impedance headphones as more amperage is required to over come them. In higher impedance headphones you need more voltage to overcome the resistance. (ohms) I'm sure you knew this but my problem here in lies that the 701 genre or family is really neither low ohm (32 and below) and high ohm (100+). So finding a willing source maybe difficult. One that has a high voltage and fast current if you will. A powerhouse of an amp.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Just a heads up to anyone that wants a cheap solution to get DH on your PC. There's a few of the Plantronics Gamecom 777 usb adapters on ebay from around $9-$15 shipped and it does do DH. I have had the dongle since I bought that headset a couple years ago and works fine (never really used it since I mainly game on consoles).
> 
> Side note: This dongle processes audio to DH only by going from Dolby Pro Logic II -> 5.1 -> Dolby headphone. This is something I just realized when I was reading into it today. This only accepts 2 channel audio and there's no way to set it up to take in a pure 5.1 audio stream. But for the most part, it still works fine when testing this with the 5.1 mix of Gunbuster and setting the output as DPLII with ac3filter.


 
  nice find but there has to be a way also to get that dongle to do ddl---> 5.1 dolby headphone because that chip thats inside  the housing of the dongle is the same chip that the mixamp uses go figure!
   
  Just imagine if someone could do a hack to get that to work you would have a very inexpensive mixamp minus the chat though for consoles..


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ok, I've been give a pair of HD 800 over the weekend and after trying BF3, Thief 3 with EAX HD, Dark Souls, Third Age Total War with EAX HD, Max Payne 3, GRID, Ghost Recon Future Soldier I declare the HD 800 as king of kings.
   
  The same goes for comfort. I have never had a pair of headphones that does fit so well and cause nothing.
   
  It's the best soundstage I have ever heard, I don't know about SR009 but all the opinions of others are true. It's not only wide but also has incredible depth and clear posiitoning. The T90 is already very great for gaming but the HD 800 is king.


----------



## japatml

[size=1.7em] AKG Q 701 ou Beyer Dynamic DT 990 Premium ???[/size]


----------



## I95North

I received my recon3D usb used 9-5-12 and its seems either its defective or its junk.. For some reason it works with music sort of ok but with ddl from xbox-360 it sucks.
   
  The audio keeps going very low like someone has pressed a volume reducing button while online gaming but when the match is over and your back in main chat game lobby its fine.
   
  I tried to turn the ingame volume almost all the way down then compensate by turning amp volume up on my amp but  the volume still goes low or kinda like pumps from normal to low volume output in scout  mode or thx.. Anyone that has this device have similar problems?


----------



## Eric_C

japatml said:


> [size=1.7em]AKG Q 701 ou Beyer Dynamic DT 990 Premium ???[/size]




Read the first post.


----------



## Mikesin

How does the HD800 and T90 compare to to the AKG K702s, is it similar or on another level??? (assuming you have tried them)
  €Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Ok, I've been give a pair of HD 800 over the weekend and after trying BF3, Thief 3 with EAX HD, Dark Souls, Third Age Total War with EAX HD, Max Payne 3, GRID, Ghost Recon Future Soldier I declare the HD 800 as king of kings.
> 
> The same goes for comfort. I have never had a pair of headphones that does fit so well and cause nothing.
> 
> It's the best soundstage I have ever heard, I don't know about SR009 but all the opinions of others are true. It's not only wide but also has incredible depth and clear posiitoning. The T90 is already very great for gaming but the HD 800 is king.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

i95north said:


> I received my recon3D usb used 9-5-12 and its seems either its defective or its junk.. For some reason it works with music sort of ok but with ddl from xbox-360 it sucks.
> 
> The audio keeps going very low like someone has pressed a volume reducing button while online gaming but when the match is over and your back in main chat game lobby its fine.
> 
> I tried to turn the ingame volume almost all the way down then compensate by turning amp volume up on my amp but  the volume still goes low or kinda like pumps from normal to low volume output in scout  mode or thx.. Anyone that has this device have similar problems?




Might be the 'Scout' mode messing with things. Turn it off.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> I received my recon3D usb used 9-5-12 and its seems either its defective or its junk.. For some reason it works with music sort of ok but with ddl from xbox-360 it sucks.
> 
> The audio keeps going very low like someone has pressed a volume reducing button while online gaming but when the match is over and your back in main chat game lobby its fine.
> 
> I tried to turn the ingame volume almost all the way down then compensate by turning amp volume up on my amp but  the volume still goes low or kinda like pumps from normal to low volume output in scout  mode or thx.. Anyone that has this device have similar problems?




Hmm, that hasn't happened to me at all. I don't understand why you thought turning in-game volume so low would help (I only do that when chat volume through "speakers" is too quiet compared to the game sound), so maybe I don't fully understand, but my suggestion would be to see if the problem persists with THX, Scout, and plain mode. Also, connect the Recon3D to a computer you have the drivers installed on and check to see if you have a "smart volume" feature enabled... In game sounds are always louder than lobby sound in my experience, so maybe the Recon3D is getting confused?

Your described issue doesn't happen to me in any mode, even though I barely changed any THX settings from stock when I hooked it up to my computer. Test a few more variables and let us know how it goes, and what Creative's customer support says. Good luck!


----------



## Skylit

Would love to see how the new Beyerdynamic Custom One PRO headphones stack up to your comparison once released. Maybe if you get around to it 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604570/beyerdynamic-custom-ones-new-beyer-headphones


----------



## Phos

I notice in the first post, you're not sure on how the hiss coming out the DSS behaves exactly?  I can test this for you.  
   
  I feel like this guide could use a list of receivers with Dolby Headphone/Silent Cinema.  Not necessarily a test, just an overview of what's out there, perhaps along with what you need to connect a mic to an Xbox 360, and maybe the one component you need to connect to a PS3.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mikesin said:


> How does the HD800 and T90 compare to to the AKG K702s, is it similar or on another level??? (assuming you have tried them)


 
   
  They are both better. The T90 has a remarkable subbass that gives you the chills in brooding games like Dark Souls and it's soundstage is more spacious 3D than the K702. No problems with pinpoint accuracy either. Of course both are more expensive and for gaming alone I wouldn't stretch out that far. 
   
  While the Mixamp can feed the T90 rather good I wouldn't use both for consoles as they are overkill. Use them in a high quality soundcard or processed DHP/CMSS-3D SPDIF -> DAC -> HPA.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got a 3DS. MAN, the volume is lacking... both my UE500 and HE400 are very low in volume even maxed, and even with the E17 MAXED at +12 gain, the HE400 is barely to the point where I'd say it's moderately loud.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Might be the 'Scout' mode messing with things. Turn it off.


 
  I tried that already but no luck
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hmm, that hasn't happened to me at all. I don't understand why you thought turning in-game volume so low would help (I only do that when chat volume through "speakers" is too quiet compared to the game sound), so maybe I don't fully understand, but my suggestion would be to see if the problem persists with THX, Scout, and plain mode. Also, connect the Recon3D to a computer you have the drivers installed on and check to see if you have a "smart volume" feature enabled... In game sounds are always louder than lobby sound in my experience, so maybe the Recon3D is getting confused?
> Your described issue doesn't happen to me in any mode, even though I barely changed any THX settings from stock when I hooked it up to my computer. Test a few more variables and let us know how it goes, and what Creative's customer support says. Good luck!


 
  The reason why i turn the in game volume down is because my thinking was that it was clipping or something like getting to much gain but that was not the case . Even with the ingame volume turned almost all the way down the volume still fluctuated kinda like a pumping sound sensation "compresion"  going from normal then to very low.. This happens in either scout mode or thx but i have not tried to turn off the smart volume i will try that today..
   
  All drivers are up to date and i also would like to say that sometimes the control panel wigs out and i have to unplug then recconect it to computer to make the settings reappear in the control panel sometimes it just goes blank..


----------



## Mikesin

Both better in fun or competitive ?  I tend to go for the competitive you see, directional cues etc are vital, so soundstaging, imaging is a must. I use the PC primarily, but do use consoles so that isn't a problem. Just would like to know how they compare, as if I was to stretch out that far in the future, i'd like to know which is to more of my taste, although it indeed is definitely overkill.
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> They are both better. The T90 has a remarkable subbass that gives you the chills in brooding games like Dark Souls and it's soundstage is more spacious 3D than the K702. No problems with pinpoint accuracy either. Of course both are more expensive and for gaming alone I wouldn't stretch out that far.
> 
> While the Mixamp can feed the T90 rather good I wouldn't use both for consoles as they are overkill. Use them in a high quality soundcard or processed DHP/CMSS-3D SPDIF -> DAC -> HPA.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> First page is your friend... and so is MLE for writing the guide.
> Mixamp, AX720 Decoder box, DSS/DSS2, Recon, reciever with DH/SC, Headzone amp all have their positives/negatives. Give more information and you'll be rewarded with a better recommendation based on your needs:
> What system are you going to be playing on?
> How important is voice chat?
> How much is your budget?


 
  Sorry, I did specify but that was a few pages back. I'm looking for a Dolby Headphone solution for both PC and console. I have read the guide which mentions that the DSS is discontinued and the DSS2 doesn't support Dolby Headphone. I would also like the ability to mix voice in since the Xbox voice volume is low even at highest. That said I also want an EQ to drop the bass on the DT770s for competitive games, which the Astros and AX720s don't have. The Headzone is well out of my league.
   
  So basically I'm looking at the Astros as a second best for my needs, and they are about as much as I can afford. Unless anyone can recommend some other device which encompasses everything?


----------



## Rebel975

When I play games using my speakers and want to talk to my friends I have to use a standard Xbox mic. I was getting really annoyed by the wired Xbox mic, so I bought a wireless one. Unfortunately, the wireless mic has a horrible attachment system, where I always felt like it was going to fall off of my ear.

 I took the headband from a wired mic and glued it to a piece I cut off of the wireless mic's attachment system. It's rock solid because it attaches to the wireless mic like the wireless mic's original attachment system is supposed to, and I still maintain the size adjustability of the wired mic's headband.

 I'll add some shrink wrap tubing, and it'll be done.
   
   
   

   
   
   
  I also used a foam piece from a microphone instead of the standard gel inserts the wireless mic comes with. It helps drown out the low level hiss that this thing has, and, it's a 'one size fits all' style now.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





paradux said:


> Sorry, I did specify but that was a few pages back. I'm looking for a Dolby Headphone solution for both PC and console. I have read the guide which mentions that the DSS is discontinued and the DSS2 doesn't support Dolby Headphone. I would also like the ability to mix voice in since the Xbox voice volume is low even at highest. That said I also want an EQ to drop the bass on the DT770s for competitive games, which the Astros and AX720s don't have. The Headzone is well out of my league.
> 
> So basically I'm looking at the Astros as a second best for my needs, and they are about as much as I can afford. Unless anyone can recommend some other device which encompasses everything?


 
   
  If you want the best for both PC and console, then as I keep saying, you're going to have to use two different devices. Sound card in the PC, Mixamp on the consoles (barring the Beyer Headzone and Smyth Realiser).
   
  It'll cost a bit more, but not that much-just another $30-50 for a good sound card.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got a 3DS. MAN, the volume is lacking... both my UE500 and HE400 are very low in volume even maxed, and even with the E17 MAXED at +12 gain, the HE400 is barely to the point where I'd say it's moderately loud.


 
   
  Yeah, it's pretty quiet. I hear it gets louder if you change the sound setting to Stereo instead of Surround, but I just can't bring myself to do that since the surround effect is rather noticeable with the built-in speakers, and my portable cans of choice (HTF600 for the time being) are sensitive enough.
   
  By the way, what's your friend code? Mine's in the Online Networking Thread.


----------



## Mikesin

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I got my Astro Mixamp to work with my PC.. maybe because my soundcard had some Dolby features, definitely not Dolby Headphone though.., whats the technology my 'ASUS Xonar DS' has that enables my PC to use DH through my Mixamp?
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If you want the best for both PC and console, then as I keep saying, you're going to have to use two different devices. Sound card in the PC, Mixamp on the consoles (barring the Beyer Headzone and Smyth Realiser).
> 
> It'll cost a bit more, but not that much-just another $30-50 for a good sound card.


----------



## Phos

Quick little bit about the DSS: It's hiss varies slightly with changes in volume.


----------



## Evshrug

mikesin said:


> Hmm, I'm pretty sure I got my Astro Mixamp to work with my PC.. maybe because my soundcard had some Dolby features, definitely not Dolby Headphone though.., whats the technology my 'ASUS Xonar DS' has that enables my PC to use DH through my Mixamp?




If your sound card is outputting 5.1 surround throught it's optical out port to your Mixamp, your Mixamp should process that to Dolby headphone. It's not CMSS-3D, but it should be as good as what you'd get from a console.

I agree with NamelessPFG that separate components for specialized needs (surround processor for console and a sound card for PC) is the way to go for the "BEST" sound quality, especially if you put a high quality desktop amp just before the headphone in your audio chain. That said, the Recon3D USB does both PC and Console "surround sound" that is good enough for me. If the Mixamp is well and truly only going to be available in bundles or second hand from now on, the Recon3D USB is what I'd point console gamers towards if they want to buy new. I can't actually tell how the Mixamp and Recon3D USB compare for console gaming, but the Recon3D USB ought to still be cheaper and flexible for PC gaming too if summit-Fi isn't the goal.

Btw, I've been playing a lot more Oblivion now that competitive FPS isn't an option for now. I don't know if the amp section is breaking in or something (doubtful), but I've noticed that with the InGame volume turned up to full, my Recon3D doesn't need to be set at full power volume setting, and in fact it seems like there are a few notches of headroom between comfortable listening and the Recon3D's max output.

Mad, do you have any suggestions for Q701 headband comfort? I get by with little position adjustments and I can play for hours, but I am "thinning up top" and those bumps do bother me pretty frequently. Why did AKG even put them on there, what is the benefit over just having a plain leather headband?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Hmm, I'm pretty sure I got my Astro Mixamp to work with my PC.. maybe because my sound card had some Dolby features, definitely not Dolby Headphone though.., whats the technology my 'ASUS Xonar DS' has that enables my PC to use DH through my Mix-amp?


 
  My two cents
  I believe the Astro Mix-amp uses Dolby, but your Xonar DS sound card uses DTS.
  I would assuming the Xonar DS (DTS) can output 2-channel (PCM), which the Astro Mix-amp. should be able to work with (just 2-channel).
  The Xonar DS outputs compressed 5.1 (6-channel) digital out thru the optical using DTS Interactive, but the Astro Mix-amp is designed to take in thru the optical input DDL (Dolby Digital live).
  Not sure if those two standards are compatible, my gut says no (for 5.1 (6-channel) audio).
  Could always swap the Xonar DS for the Xonar DX or D1 (which come with DDL, Dolby Digital live).


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> My two cents
> I believe the Astro Mix-amp uses Dolby, but your Xonar DS sound card uses DTS.
> I would assuming the Xonar DS (DTS) can output 2-channel (PCM), which the Astro Mix-amp. should be able to work with (just 2-channel).
> The Xonar DS outputs compressed 5.1 (6-channel) digital out thru the optical using DTS Interactive, but the Astro Mix-amp is designed to take in thru the optical input DDL (Dolby Digital live).
> ...




Oh the Xonar DS optical-out outputs surround in DTS? Huh. Guess that may be part of the reason people are looking for a headphone processor that can convert DTS into headphone virtual surround.

Time to reveal (more) of my knowledge limits: I thought surround tracks like Dolby and DTS were decoded by the player (or soundcard hardware/software) since the media's audio is encoded that way, and that your source player (DVD player, Xbox, PS, Computer with soundcard, etc) would de-tangle all that jazz at the same stage as the video. So even with a digital connection such as an HDMI cable or optical, a DAC or a screen would just be turning a "universal format" unencoded digital whatever into usable output (analog sound or the picture on a screen). That's what I thought PCM audio was... PCM can't carry a 7.1 or 5.1 channel audio signal?

Part of what lead me to this conclusion is that the Xbox 360 decodes DTS, and before MS added the HDMI port, Optical Out was the only way to get surround sound. So color me still confused why an optical-out can't carry out this functionality all the time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Oh the Xonar DS optical-out outputs surround in DTS? Huh. Guess that may be part of the reason people are looking for a headphone processor that can convert DTS into headphone virtual surround.
> Time to reveal (more) of my knowledge limits: I thought surround tracks like Dolby and DTS were decoded by the player (or soundcard hardware/software) since the media's audio is encoded that way, and that your source player (DVD player, Xbox, PS, Computer with sound card, etc) would de-tangle all that jazz at the same stage as the video. So even with a digital connection such as an HDMI cable or optical, a DAC or a screen would just be turning a "universal format" unencoded digital whatever into usable output (analog sound or the picture on a screen). That's what I thought PCM audio was... PCM can't carry a 7.1 or 5.1 channel audio signal?
> Part of what lead me to this conclusion is that the Xbox 360 decodes DTS, and before MS added the HDMI port, Optical Out was the only way to get surround sound. So color me still confused why an optical-out can't carry out this functionality all the time.


 
  HDMI can carry carry 8 channels of PCM (uncompressed audio), PCM seems to be universal.
  But to use S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) to send 5.1 (6-channels) of (PCM?) audio, it needs to be compressed, Dolby uses DDL (Dolby Digital live), DTS uses DTS Interactive
  Not sure if DDL and DTS Interactive can work together, I'm guessing (?) no
  Optical can only carry 2 channels of PCM or 7 channels (6.1, Dolby EX) of compressed audio, but 6.1 (Dolby EX) is not used anymore, but 5.1 is still going strong.
  As far as I know, Microsoft pushes game makers (for the xBox) into using Dolby, not DTS, but I need to read up more to double check.


----------



## NamelessPFG

As I keep saying, if they're using an external surround processor like that for PC gaming because their sound card doesn't support any form of binaural surround mixing directly, they aren't doing it right. (Well, I have heard of people who use X-Fi cards with Dolby Headphone processors because they want proper DS3D/OAL hardware acceleration, but don't like CMSS-3D Headphone as much. Weird, I know. Still a fringe case.)
   
  Unfortunately, I don't think the Xonar DS supports anything on par with Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D Headphone, so the only solution there that I can think of is to replace it with a different sound card.


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> HDMI can carry carry 8 channels of PCM (uncompressed audio), PCM seems to be universal.
> But to use S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) to send 5.1 (6-channels) of (PCM?) audio, it needs to be compressed, Dolby uses DDL (Dolby Digital live), DTS uses DTS Interactive
> Not sure if DDL and DTS Interactive can work together, I'm guessing (?) no
> Optical can only carry 2 channels of PCM or 7 channels (6.1, Dolby EX) of compressed audio, but 6.1 (Dolby EX) is not used anymore, but 5.1 is still going strong.
> As far as I know, Microsoft pushes game makers (for the xBox) into using Dolby, not DTS, but I need to read up more to double check.




Gave up on Microsoft's website... They are too obfusticating. I know I read it somewhere official, but here's a relevant paragraph from DTS' Wiki:

_"Sony's PlayStation 3 and Microsoft's Xbox 360 are capable of DTS decoding and output via TOSLINK or HDMI as LPCM. However, HDMI output on the Xbox 360 is only found on the "Elite" model and newer models available since mid-2007, with the release of the Falcon chipset. Also, the Xbox 360 cannot decode DTS from DTS Audio CDs. PlayStation 3 consoles can bitstream DTS over HDMI. The newer "slim" models are able to bitstream DTS-HD MA as well."_

I've also read a conflicting (older, pre-patch) thread post that surround audio on the 360 is converted to DDL when output via Optical Audio Out, no matter what format it came from. Maybe that's how it originally worked, I don't know next to anything about LPCM. I don't know if audio is treated this way through HDMI, in fact I saw a post that the first Prototype game was the first to use DTS audio on the 360 and a Receiver could, um, receive a DTS signal from that game and appropriate movie audio tracks. To finagle a DTS surround to headphones in virtual surround might be difficult... Hmm, makes me want to give my Yamaha another try with some DVD! Would be awesome to play Jurassic Park  

Nah, I don't really care enough 


Edit: yeah, I spun-off from pc-audio again. Like I said, Nameless' suggestion for a better sound card is definitely the simplest and highest quality solution to mix up some binaural gaming goodness. If you already have your console sorted with the Mixamp AND it's worth it to you to upgrade your PC audio, do that


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Both better in fun or competitive ?  I tend to go for the competitive you see, directional cues etc are vital, so soundstaging, imaging is a must. I use the PC primarily, but do use consoles so that isn't a problem. Just would like to know how they compare, as if I was to stretch out that far in the future, i'd like to know which is to more of my taste, although it indeed is definitely overkill.


 
  They are both better in both 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 although the K702 is very good in itself already. You can do competitive with all three. Now fun is a nother thing, that's where I consider subass, soundstage, imaging, separation the winners. 
   
  I'd say you get a better soundcard in the future and keep your current collection (if you want to go way down then get the HD800 - no prisoners). Watch out for the new Creative Lineup coming in December, they are very confident about it in the way they used to when they introduced the x-fi to the world.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> They are both better in both :bigsmile_face:  although the K702 is very good in itself already. You can do competitive with all three. Now fun is a nother thing, that's where I consider subass, soundstage, imaging, separation the winners.
> 
> I'd say you get a better soundcard in the future and keep your current collection (if you want to go way down then get the HD800 - no prisoners). Watch out for the new Creative Lineup coming in December, they are very confident about it in the way they used to when they introduced the x-fi to the world.




Where does their confidence come from beyond the usual new product marketing fluff? I mean, I hope it's great, and since Microsoft doesn't see the 360 reaching the end of it's life till about 2015 (they may have a 2 system overlap at some point, but we'll see), my hope is that enough gamers will lust after progress and re-invigorate the PC gaming scene. Growth sector = more R&D, hopefully something will come along to fill the shoes of OpenAL (DirectAX11?). I wonder why Microsoft dropped support for OpenAL in Vista. FWIR on Creative's snazzy new cards to be released on December, the S/Nr is supposed to be better than ever, but their new non-liscensed variant of THX Pro Surround doesn't inspire me to believe it's a true 3D replacement for OpenAL and it's ilk.

If you read Creative's quarterly reports, it looks like Creative has been bleeding money for years, at loss margins as the PC audio enthusiast niche shrank. Those same reports seem to state that they're surviving by cutting costs "in an uncertain market," my _guess_ is that they won't pour money into a drastically improved product until there is growth in their market.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





phos said:


> Quick little bit about the DSS: It's hiss varies slightly with changes in volume.


 
  I must've gotten an excellent one then, because I absolutely can't hear any hiss on mine with *any* headphone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  When I link it to the E9, I usually max the volume on the DSS and it's still dead silent.
   
  Whenever it's gonna die though (hopefully never 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), I'll be giving the Mixamp a try, unless something new (and better) comes out. Right now, it's just too expensive...


----------



## nyst01

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad, do you have any suggestions for Q701 headband comfort? I get by with little position adjustments and I can play for hours, but I am "thinning up top" and those bumps do bother me pretty frequently. Why did AKG even put them on there, what is the benefit over just having a plain leather headband?


 
   
  I had the same problem with the Q701 headband.  As crazy as it may sound, I threw a baby seat strap cover over mine. 
   
  Something like this: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3591059
   
  I haven't had any comfort issues with the Q's since.  I can wear them all day when 'working' from home.


----------



## Evshrug

nyst01 said:


> I had the same problem with the Q701 headband.  As crazy as it may sound, I threw a baby seat strap cover over mine.
> 
> Something like this: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3591059
> 
> I haven't had any comfort issues with the Q's since.  I can wear them all day when 'working' from home.




Yeah, I remember reading somewhere (the Q701 appreciation thread?) that someone else had used a seatbelt cover wrapped over the headband. I thought it might've been you, but, congrats first post lol! Wonder if they have that at my local Toys R Us? If not, it's right next to the Michael's arts and crafts store anyway 

Those headphone bumps really are my only caveat with the Q701's, it's funny because the K240 Studios DON'T have bumps on the headband, and people rave about the comfort of those. I literally cannot fathom their purpose... Last night I had an hour of music before sleep, laying on my rolled up pillow I rotated the cans till the headband was off my head and literally in front of my eyes, the sound quality lead me to an alert but meditative space; felt so nice


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Growth sector = more R&D, hopefully something will come along to fill the shoes of OpenAL (DirectAX11?). I wonder why Microsoft dropped support for OpenAL in Vista.


 
   
  Microsoft dropped support for *DirectSound3D*. OpenAL remains unaffected, and they can't do anything about that because it's not an API they have control over, unlike the DirectX suite.
   
  That's why wrappers like ALchemy, DS3DGX, 3DSoundBack, etc. are capable of "restoring" DirectSound3D support under Vista onward in the first place; they just wrap the DS3D API calls into OpenAL, much like one might wrap old 3dfx Glide calls into Direct3D or OpenGL for older games that only supported 3D acceleration through Glide.
   
  That said, I still don't get why they bothered to remove DS3D in the first place, and I also don't get why game developers didn't continue to keep using OpenAL in its place.


----------



## Evshrug

Ah, ok thanks for the clarification. Still, it's all a mystery.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





nyst01 said:


> I had the same problem with the Q701 headband.  As crazy as it may sound, I threw a baby seat strap cover over mine.
> 
> Something like this: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3591059
> 
> I haven't had any comfort issues with the Q's since.  I can wear them all day when 'working' from home.


 

 When I had the AKG K702 which shares the same headband design as the Q701, the bumps on it didn't hurt my head at all. Now the only headphone that ever hurted the top of my head after long use, was the HFI-780's Headband stick. When it put a dent in my head and hurted after I took it off. Which why i stay far away from ultrasone headphones now because of that silly stick of butter that they call a headband.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't understand why people hate the Ultrasone headband padding. Literally the same as the PC360 padding. Zero issues with it.

I think people wear their headphones too tightly, if its digging into your skull. I tend to wear headphones slightly loose.


----------



## raband

Has anyone tried or got an opinion on the Creative Recon 3D mixamp style device?
   
  Looks promising (unless it's a dud)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> Has anyone tried or got an opinion on the Creative Recon 3D mixamp style device?
> 
> Looks promising (unless it's a dud)




Stay tuned.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yeah, I remember reading somewhere (the Q701 appreciation thread?) that someone else had used a seatbelt cover wrapped over the headband.


 
   
  That was probably me.  I'm always telling people to do that.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That was probably me.  I'm always telling people to do that.


 
   
  I may have to swing by Dayton sometime to see how that works out, it always sounded weird to me.  Especially since I find the bumps quite comfortable.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





raband said:


> Has anyone tried or got an opinion on the Creative Recon 3D mixamp style device?
> 
> Looks promising (unless it's a dud)


 
   
  For PC gaming, I'm a bit disappointed coming from proper X-Fi sound cards, though it's still better than nothing. Most of it is due to quirks with Creative's software OpenAL device for products like that, their X-Fi MB software suite for integrated audio codecs, and so on.
   
  For console gaming, it actually seems to fare a bit better there, but I can only test that aspect in a limited fashion through the original Xbox. (It doesn't help that it's useless for analog Pro Logic II sources like GCN/Wii games.)
   
  Mad Lust Envy's telling you to stay tuned because he gets one to review tomorrow, along with a JVC/Victor SU-DH1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm a bit overwhelmed by all the features the Recond3D USB has. I prefer simplicity for things like that. I hope it's not a nightmare to tweak. I basically just want to compare it directly with Dolby Headphone, to see if it's better or comparable at positioning and overall SQ. 

The SU-DH1's test will be comparing the different room sizes, and seeing how well the DTS decoding works. My assumption is that it converts DTS to Dolby Digital, and from DD to DH. I know the DTS light will be on, but I'm betting it's just converted.

That DH vs CMSS3D Crysis 2 vid really is a HORRIBLE DH test, as I don't know ANY game that sounds that echoey and processed through the Mixamp. It honestly sounded like ultra-processed DPLII into DH in room 3 or something.


----------



## chicolom

So does the Recon3d use CMSS3D or some THX DSP?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> So does the Recon3d use CMSS3D or some THX DSP?


 
   
  THX TruStudio Surround.
   
  It does NOT sound like CMSS-3D Headphone, not even close. Less sense of distance to the sound, and directionality seems less distinct for PC games.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Microsoft dropped support for *DirectSound3D*. OpenAL remains unaffected, and they can't do anything about that because it's not an API they have control over, unlike the DirectX suite.
> 
> That's why wrappers like ALchemy, DS3DGX, 3DSoundBack, etc. are capable of "restoring" DirectSound3D support under Vista onward in the first place; they just wrap the DS3D API calls into OpenAL, much like one might wrap old 3dfx Glide calls into Direct3D or OpenGL for older games that only supported 3D acceleration through Glide.
> 
> That said, I still don't get why they bothered to remove DS3D in the first place, and I also don't get why game developers didn't continue to keep using OpenAL in its place.


 
   
  Creative as stubborn as they always were didn't come in terms with MS for licensing issues for proprietary Creative Tech so MS brought Xaudio2 for PC as well and the whole world turned to Middleware only - porting over become easy as never before. Of course MS wanted to have gamers more on the Xbox side than PC but that's another (though interconnected) issue. 
   
  Creative dropped their own support as well (remember when they sent devs to game studios for EAX/DS3D?) and didn't do much about boosting OpenAL support/popularity. Plus MS porting tools covered the whole process - it became too easy. Why bother with OpenAL.  
   
  Unreal 3 games used to have OpenAL as well, Gears of War, Mirror's Edge, Mass Effect etc...
  I think the latest ones even dropped that part. 
   
  Guild Wars 1 had EAX and it was very fun, now the second one dropped it and the audio engineer was recently bubbling about CPUs are very powerful today and all that ********. 

 Anway, we seem to have a bit better times ahead with Win 8 at least and since successor consoles seem to have dedicated audio dsps maybe we will get something back. 
   
  On another note: I dropped the T90 for a very good price and when I brought  back the loaner HD 800 to my dealer I got me a new one with a subtle discount.


----------



## Evshrug

raband said:


> Has anyone tried or got an opinion on the Creative Recon 3D mixamp style device?
> 
> Looks promising (unless it's a dud)




I wrote a review on it, focusing on its performance with an Xbox 360 since the only PC game I'm playing currently is Starcraft 2 on Mac OS X. http://www.head-fi.org/products/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-thx-usb-external-sound-enhancer-for-pc-ps3-xbox-360-and-mac-sb1300/reviews/7395

I spent hours trying different games and trying to share useful impressions, but I have my own taste for sound. Before I used the Recon3D I had been using Yamaha's propriety virtual surround feature (which worked pretty well but stood out as being a bit echo-y in comparison); I don't know firsthand how it compares to Dolby Headphone. It competes with the first DSS, which can be found for hella cheap on eBay, and the Mixamp Pro which is the only Mixamp Astro is selling separately right now ($130). I expect Mad won't find it to be a revelation, but I think the Recon3D does virtual surround pretty well, and is a great deal if you find it on sale like I did.


----------



## Evshrug

Also, Mad,
It should work with your 360 out-of-the-box without tweaking. I did just because I was already on the computer (really wanted to get the sound working on my Mac again), but all I did IIRC was max out the surround bar and turn down the bass a bit. Let me know if you try something and wanna know if it's the same on my unit.

Edit: also, if you DO install the software and DO make changes, you have to save it to the THX profile (last tab on the sidebar) to use it on your 360.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't understand why people hate the Ultrasone headband padding. Literally the same as the PC360 padding. Zero issues with it.
> I think people wear their headphones too tightly, if its digging into your skull. I tend to wear headphones slightly loose.


 
  The main issue was the pad being made out Pleather, that's when it put the dent in my head regardless if i had a small Afro or a medium Afro.  I was able to replace the pad with a Software make shift one which stop the dents from happening but it kept falling off.  In the end it wasn't the pad that made me sell the headphones it was the sound signature of the HFI-780s that i got sick of after awhile.  Because I was getting to fine a permanent softer head pad solution to it before i decided to get rid of them.  Granted of the HFI-780 headband pads was made outta Leather or velvet and not Plastic Leather, it wouldn't had bother me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, the Pro 900 and Pro 2900 padding was velour...


----------



## TheKarakiri

Very Helpful guide!


----------



## crzycuyler

MLE, would the D7000 still be at the top of your list for the best all-around can? I need a can for music (lots of acoustic, folk, some electronic), movies, and gaming(immersive, fun, insert you into the world gameplay).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. The D7000 is still my favorite can. I might love the HE400 as much, but OVERALL, the D7000 had my preferred sound signature which didn't need any tweaking, and was easy to drive even off the Mixamp alone. For my personal taste, the HE400 off the Mixamp+E17 still needs the E17's bass boost (+2 for me).

If you're fine with really comfy pleather, the D7000 is still very much my top pick, and would be the only headphone I'd ever need if I wasn't so damn picky about pads.

I miss the D7000 every single day.


----------



## crzycuyler

In truth, the more I ask myself, I just want a headphone that will take me to Skyrim. I just want to go there and disappear... for a little while, at least. I don't want to feel like I'm wearing headphones.


----------



## Naingolann

KSC75 arrived today, been listening to 'em for a while now...I wasn't expecting much, even though all the people on head-fi seemed very pleased, so I went ahead and bought a pair. And...
   
  My.Goddess! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  These little things are unbelievable! They sound incredibly good, my mind is completely blown. Very comfy even with glasses. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Was planning on doing the kramer mod, but I like the way they sound already. Definitely the best 20$ ever spent and I can't not recommend enough to anyone. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the Recon and the SU-DH1, MLE!


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> In truth, the more I ask myself, I just want a headphone that will take me to Skyrim. I just want to go there and disappear... for a little while, at least. I don't want to feel like I'm wearing headphones.


 
   
  If you're looking for something to immerse yourself in Skyrim, I'd recommend looking for something with high detail. It's the small details that make the game draw you in. My Q701s do a fantastic job. I've also tried with several of my headphones and the ones that have more sparkly highs/mids did the games finer queues more justice. For example I hated Skyrim through my HD419. If you're looking for something more budget based, it also sounded very immersive through my KSC75. Easy to drive too, I take them with me as a portable set for my laptop.
   
  But for me, Skyrim doesn't require a bunch of bass. Just a small amount with enough emphasis but not overpowering. It's more about the precision, so you'll want something that has tight bass response. Keeping in mind this is just my two cents.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> If you're looking for something to immerse yourself in Skyrim, I'd recommend looking for something with high detail. It's the small details that make the game draw you in. My Q701s do a fantastic job. I've also tried with several of my headphones and the ones that have more sparkly highs/mids did the games finer queues more justice. For example I hated Skyrim through my HD419. If you're looking for something more budget based, it also sounded very immersive through my KSC75. Easy to drive too, I take them with me as a portable set for my laptop.
> 
> But for me, Skyrim doesn't require a bunch of bass. Just a small amount with enough emphasis but not overpowering. It's more about the precision, so you'll want something that has tight bass response. Keeping in mind this is just my two cents.


 
  I can agree with tight bass being more important than boom, but the soundtrack has some epic drums that I can't help from feeling would benefit from cans with decent impact. I appreciate your advice, and for portability, I just ordered the KSC75, so I will try them out. If I'm convinced, I'll spend big bucks on a pair of cans, but they have to give me what I'm looking for in gaming and carry over to other purposes like music (acoustic/folk/classical/electronic) and movies.
   
  Also, if considering the Q701s, should I also consider the HD650? Open and detailed, right? And more bass?


----------



## nyst01

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yeah, I remember reading somewhere (the Q701 appreciation thread?) that someone else had used a seatbelt cover wrapped over the headband.


 
   
  Ah yeah, that was the thread that clued me into the idea.  I couldn't remember which thread I initially read about the covers.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That was probably me.  I'm always telling people to do that.


 
   
  And thanks a great easy fix for those of us who happen to have issues with those bumps!
   
  In my last (first) post I also forgot to add a big thanks to everyone giving advice in this thread. I've really enjoyed the Q701s along with an O2 and ModMic since early March.  Everything just happened to show up right before Mass Effect 3 shipped.  They definitely drown out the whimpering I keep hearing from my wallet.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> I can agree with tight bass being more important than boom, but the soundtrack has some epic drums that I can't help from feeling would benefit from cans with decent impact. I appreciate your advice, and for portability, I just ordered the KSC75, so I will try them out. If I'm convinced, I'll spend big bucks on a pair of cans, but they have to give me what I'm looking for in gaming and carry over to other purposes like music (acoustic/folk/classical/electronic) and movies.
> 
> Also, if considering the Q701s, should I also consider the HD650? Open and detailed, right? And more bass?


 
   
  I agree, Skyrim's music is incredible and has some of the most moving beats I've heard in a while. Taking that over to headphones, I personally feel that the Q701 with good amplification has the right amount of bass for me. Everything from the rumble of the dragon roars to the drums in the music to the simple rumble of fire magic impacting, it just feels exactly how I would imagine. Now I don't claim to be a bass head, so what works out perfectly for me isn't enough for other people. Hopefully there are some other Skyrim players around, as I feel just one opinion shouldn't influence a buying decision, but rather multiple viewpoints. And as for music, my Qs do an amazing job reproducing some of my favorite genres. But I also have some budget cans for more bass-focused music like EDM like my Monoprice 8323s. But for my normal day to day, I use the Qs at home and my Etymotic HF3s on the road, so you can easily imagine how much I like my mids. The Qs work nicely for acoustic, folk and classical in your list. They're fantastic with jazz and ska as well, two of my favorite genres.
   
  As for the HD650, sad to say I've never heard one first hand, so I won't be any assistance there. But if it has more bass than the Qs, then for me there's a chance it may be too much. My FA-011s were too bass-heavy for my gaming preferences.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Also, if considering the Q701s, should I also consider the HD650? Open and detailed, right? And more bass?


 
   
  The HD650 is supposed to be pretty dark sounding, and has smaller soundstage then the Q701.  Not sure it'd be great for gaming...


----------



## Sabin0786

I'm considering the Beyerdynamic DT990 Premum 250ohm vs. Q701. I am using them solely for gaming. I would say both immersion and competitive sound precision are important to me, but I value immersion a bit more since I play a lot of non-competitive games and 1-2 competitive ones. Both of these headphones reviewed so well that I'm having trouble choosing between them. I do enjoy when my special effects/explosions have a nice impact to them which is making me lean towards the Beyerdynamics. However the Q701s are around 50 dollars cheaper. I'm having a really hard time deciding. What do you guys think?
   
  These are for PC use only, and I will be driving them with Fio E11 amplifier


----------



## Fegefeuer

T90 has a better and more precise bass than Q701, especially with the subbass section that is felt in Skyrim very often, not only on music but also in ambience sound as well as sound effects. It's superior in resolution as well and soundstage is spacious with very good phantom center. 
   
  Not sure however about the costs in your region.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sabin0786 said:


> I'm considering the Beyerdynamic DT990 Premum vs. Q701. I am using them solely for gaming. I would say both immersion and competitive sound precision are important to me, but I value immersion a bit more since I play a lot of non-competitive games and 1-2 competitive ones. Both of these headphones reviewed so well that I'm having trouble choosing between them. I do enjoy when my special effects/explosions have a nice impact to them which is making me lean towards the Beyerdynamics. However the Q701s are around 50 dollars cheaper. I'm having a really hard time deciding. What do you guys think?


 
  I'm going to "guess" the X-Fi Titanium HD is not going to be able to drive 600-Ohm headphones.
  62-Ohm (Q701) might be a better choice.


----------



## genclaymore

The Titanium HD is not gonna drive the AKG Q701 that well either, Mad Lust Envy mentions it that the Q701 is just as power needy as the AKG K702's that I used to have my self. So he gonna need to get a external amp if he wish to get the most outta the Q701.  Tho he could try it to see how it he likes it on the card thru the card's weak Headphone buffer. I personally wouldn't run it off a weak buffer and thur a amp instead.


----------



## HalidePisces

axelcloris said:


> crzycuyler said:
> 
> 
> > In truth, the more I ask myself, I just want a headphone that will take me to Skyrim. I just want to go there and disappear... for a little while, at least. I don't want to feel like I'm wearing headphones.
> ...




Maybe the ATH-AD900? It's supposedly like the famous ATH-AD700, but with better bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Creative Recon 3D and SU-DH1 have arrived! Well they arrived like 7 hours ago, but they got here as I was literally about to zonk out by a sleeping pill. Didn't exactly sleep well, so its time for testing!


----------



## Eric_C

So, in case anyone was wondering:
http://www.astrogaming.co.uk/mixamps/mixamps/mixamp-58-bundle-uk
   
  Astro UK still sells the MixAmp 5.8 by itself. Odd (since Astro USA doesn't).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, I'm ABOUT to start testing the amps. :rolleyes:

I got pulled away from gaming today... lol, I've been eager to try these out since forever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very quick impression on the Mixamp 5.8 vs the Victor SU-DH1 with Mass Effect 3.

The Victor SU-DH1 is fairly weak at driving my HE-400 alone. It's slightly below moderate volume. With the E17 hooked up, I need the E17 at 48 volume (+12 gain), where with the Mixamp 5.8, I need it at 38 (+12 gain). I'm able to use the Mixamp 5.8's optical out (bypass), so I can just hook up an optical cable there, and feed it to the Vistor SU-DH1 (or Creative Recond 3D which I haven't tested yet). No difference with just feeding the optical straight from the PS3 to the SU-DH1. I couldn't detect any hiss off the SU-DH1, though the HE-400 has a very quiet noise floor even with the 5.8. I wish I had my KSC35 to test hiss out. I believe the Victor is quieter, but slightly thinner sounding than the Mixamp 5.8 (probably a weaker amp).



So quick A/B comparisons...

The Victor SU-DH1 in DH2 mode (Dolby Headphone 2, which is the same processing as the Mixamp/DSS/AX720 use), sounds pretty identical to the Mixamp 5.8. However, the Mixamp 5.8's soundstage projects a LITTLE farther out. Very minute difference. I'd say it's probably the internal amp differences.

Impressions on DH1 and DH3.

DH1: Definitely smaller virtual room size. The positioning was identical to DH2, but the smaller room size I felt hurt the rear positioning a bit. DH1 actually sounds VERY good, and less processed than the typical DH2 that I'm used to listening to. It wasn't a major difference from DH2 other than soundstage size. Those coming from straight stereo would probably enjoy DH1, as it doesn't alter sound fidelity as much. I actually rather like this mode, though overall, DH2 is the best of both worlds, which is why it's the popular choice for gaming amp makers.

DH3: Okay... yeah. The soundstage opened up a bit, and really allowed rear positioning to come up better. HOWEVER, it has a very processed and artificial sound. I wouldn't trade off the more natural sound of DH2 for added soundstage with a echo-y, tunnel sound. I'd say that for very hardcore/analytical gaming where pinpointing is more important than raw SQ, DH3 is actually better than DH1 or DH2. This is a mode that I feel would be for the AD700 owners. I know some people care about DISTANCE of sounds relative to you, but TBH, I don't think headphones do distance all THAT well. I focus more on directionality than distance.

Okay, While I still have the game hooked up in Dolby, I may as well attach the Creative Recond3D and compare the processing to the Mixamp 5.8.

Afterwards, I'm changing the game to output in DTS, to see how the Victor SU-DH1 fares (though I can't do a quick A/B with DH or THX Surround, as those work with Dolby only, and you can't change from DTS to Dolby on the fly).
*
Quick minute update:

The Recon 3D is TOO weak for the HE-400. It's even weaker than the Victor and the Mixamp. So quick positional cues test without the E17: Both THX and Scout mode were... lacking. I hope it gets better with the E17 attached

Update 2: Scout Mode is considerably louder than THX mode. However, I felt scout mode had WORSE front/back depth, and sounded more like stereo. THX mode is KIND of like Dolby Headphone 2, with very good front depth, and side width. Rear placement was slightly weaker and lower in volume than Dolby Headphone.

Update 3: I really like the sound quality of the Recond 3D USB. It has a fuller sound, and sounds less processed than DH2. However, the front to side positional cues pan a bit harder and faster than Dolby Headphone which sounds more natural in progression. Rear placement is definitely not as easily discerned as it is with DH.

These are VERY early impressions, so they are subject to change.*


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I agree, Skyrim's music is incredible and has some of the most moving beats I've heard in a while. Taking that over to headphones, I personally feel that the Q701 with good amplification has the right amount of bass for me. Everything from the rumble of the dragon roars to the drums in the music to the simple rumble of fire magic impacting, it just feels exactly how I would imagine. Now I don't claim to be a bass head, so what works out perfectly for me isn't enough for other people. Hopefully there are some other Skyrim players around, as I feel just one opinion shouldn't influence a buying decision, but rather multiple viewpoints. And as for music, my Qs do an amazing job reproducing some of my favorite genres. But I also have some budget cans for more bass-focused music like EDM like my Monoprice 8323s. But for my normal day to day, I use the Qs at home and my Etymotic HF3s on the road, so you can easily imagine how much I like my mids. The Qs work nicely for acoustic, folk and classical in your list. They're fantastic with jazz and ska as well, two of my favorite genres.
> 
> As for the HD650, sad to say I've never heard one first hand, so I won't be any assistance there. But if it has more bass than the Qs, then for me there's a chance it may be too much. My FA-011s were too bass-heavy for my gaming preferences.


 
   
  Thanks for your input. I have been curious about how the Q701's handle completely uncompetitive gameplay. The only competing I'll be doing is StarCraft which doesn't really benefit from directional queues. Also, how do you like the Etymotic HF3s? I'm considering getting a pair. Can IEM game?
  Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> Maybe the ATH-AD900? It's supposedly like the famous ATH-AD700, but with better bass.


 
  I currently have the ATH-A900X and feel that these would probably suit me better than the AD900 or AD700. I also have the AKG K550, but I don't have a gaming rig right now. Just music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Update 4: To clarify on the Creative Recon 3D's THX positioning woes:

In example, a recorded audio track in Mass Effect 3 can be replayed infinitely, and has obvious sound placement dependent on where you are at, and how you're facing the source of the recorded message (like a radio).

The Creative Recond 3D has problems with panning. For example if I'm about 10 feet (in game) away from the recorded device and play the recording, if I pan slowly, the sound shifts too quickly from 1 o clock to 3 o clock, even if the sound should be coming from 2 o clock. Dolby headphone does not have this issue whatsoever. To paint a picture, DH has a more circular range of positioning, while the Recon sounds more like a flattened oval, if that makes any sense.

Despite the Creative Recond having some pretty full sounding SQ, the positioning isn't as good as DH. That much is clear to me.

Rear depth is slightly less distinct than DH, which I thought has it's own weakness with rear placement. DH simply does it better by a little bit. The Creative does a good job though.

For RIGHT now, the Creative Recond 3D is decent alternative to Dolby Headphone devices, but still doesn't quite get there overall. I will of course, be putting the Creative 3D through it's paces, and with more gaming.

Still, I'm already pretty sure my opinion won't change. It's quite noticeable how different they are, despite the Recon having a likeness to DH.

Early impression scores overall (from SQ to positioning):

Headzone: 9.5
Mixamp: 9
SU-DH1: DH1: 8, DH2: 9, DH3: 8 DTS: ?
Recond 3D: THX: 7.5 Scout: 4

Now, for the quick DTS testing of the Victor amp.


----------



## Sabin0786

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm going to "guess" the X-Fi Titanium HD is not going to be able to drive 600-Ohm headphones.
> 62-Ohm (Q701) might be a better choice.


 
   
  I bought an amplifier to drive either choice. Still have a really tough time making that choice though. Juggling the added oomph of the the bass in the DT990 vs. the better detail/positional accuracy of the Q701's. I'm not really in a position where I can go demo these things, so I'm pretty much stuck basing it off information I read on the internet. I've googled "DT990 vs. Q701", and read pretty much every thread that compares them, but I've just run into a ton of confusing/dissenting opinions. Some people saying the bass of the Q701 is only slightly less than the DT990, others say it's a huge difference. Same for the detail/accuracy/soundstage-- some people say it's only a small difference, some say the Q701's have much better precision for picking out details. I'm just hoping to get more feedback from people in this thread who have used both.
   
  Mad Lust Envy-- you speak very favorably about both, and compare them both to the DT880, but never to each other. If you had time do you think you'd be able to give me a direct comparison of these two? Thanks


----------



## Phos

I imagine the THX choice awards whatever implementation was designed to have the full set of 3D audio data rather than just 5 channels.  It does however make me interested in that new sound blaster Z series, assuming it actually does hardware sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Certainly.

The DT990 has considerably more bass presence than the Q701. That's one thing I will fully disagree on with Chicolom who says they somewhat comparable.

If I had to rate quantity:

DT990 (Premium): 8.5
Q701: 7

The Q701 has more forward mids, but the DT990's mids are crystal clear, though distant in comparison. The Q701 has natual treble, while the 990's treble is extra sparkly. I felt the 32 ohm DT990's treble to be less sparkly than the 600ohm.

Overall, I'd choose the DT990 over the Q701.

The DT990's soundstage isn't as big, whereas the Q701 has a pretty large soundstage and an airier sound. The Q701 is very well balanced, with just a slight lack of bass to make it even what I'd consider natural bass. I feel the DT880 is the starting point for where bass SHOULD be, which the Q701 doesn't quite hit.

Positioning is the Q70's win for sure, but the DT990's positioning is great.

I just find the DT990 more enjoyable with everything I throw at it, while the Q701 is strictly business in comparison.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





crzycuyler said:


> Thanks for your input. I have been curious about how the Q701's handle completely uncompetitive gameplay. The only competing I'll be doing is StarCraft which doesn't really benefit from directional queues. Also, how do you like the Etymotic HF3s? I'm considering getting a pair. Can IEM game?
> I currently have the ATH-A900X and feel that these would probably suit me better than the AD900 or AD700. I also have the AKG K550, but I don't have a gaming rig right now. Just music.


 
   
  I love the sound of my HF3s. Admittedly, I do also carry around a ZO 2.3 in their carrying case for when I'm in a bit of a "boomier" mood. However, for gaming, the soundstage on them is small to start, and trying to add in surround DSP just doesn't work well on them. But when it comes to their combination of sound and isolation, I have yet to find an IEM I like more. I did give a listen to both the A900X and the K550 together at a nearby Best Buy, albeit a short one. I really enjoyed the sound on the K550, but the fit didn't work for me. It was too loose, and I couldn't get a great seal. I had to press in on the sides in order to seal around my ears. I've heard that this could be due to facial hair but I think it was due to the shape of my head. I also liked what I heard from A900X but it didn't have a large enough soundstage for me. I also can't stand AT wings, as they don't fit for me.
   
  And as for the Q701s in non-competitive gaming, I still feel they're excellent. Most of the gaming I do is non-competitive. I do play some shooters now and then, but it's mainly single or multi-player co-op games. While I enjoy being competitive at times, I find more reward in working with others to overcome the challenges. So for non-competitive gaming, I still feel you can't go wrong with the Q701s unless you're wanting skull rattling explosions and such. These won't rumble your chest like some phones will, but that sound signature just doesn't suit me well for gaming. I mentioned if before but that's half the reason I sold off my FA-011's; too much bass.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote:  





> ...
> Headzone: 9.5
> Mixamp: 9
> SU-DH1: DH1: 8, DH2: 9, DH3: 8 DTS: ?
> ...


 
   
  Kinda makes me happy that your early rating of the scout mode is so low. I thought that mode was downright horrible when I was using the Recon 3D. It seems like your views on the device as a whole line up with how I remember it sounding. It was enjoyable, but not as much as the Mixamp was, which is why it won out for me in the end.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was doing a quick run through of the Citadel in Mass Effect 3 which has MANY areas where directional cues are abundant. 

I still feel the Recond 3D is lacking. They do 'cheat' however. The rear cues are considerably lower in volume than front cues, so even if the actual positioning isn't THERE, the volume change makes it obvious that a sound is behind you.

The rear depth being too closed, followed by the sandwiched soundfield you get doesn't exactly compete with Dolby Headphone IMHO.

THAT being said, the Recond 3D still sounds pretty good, and people may live with it happily, having not heard Dolby Headphone. It has a low noise floor, and a full and natural tonal balance (I believe the sound signature isn't exactly ruler flat, but still natural).

Overall, I'm pleased with the Recond 3D, but it would never replace a Dolby headphone device.

Scout mode is horrible. JUST horrible. I dunno why anyone would use it. I'm gonna test it out later, and I fully expect that score to go down to a 3. The soundstage is collapsed, and everything is pushed up next to you, to make things more audible, with the trade off being actual positioning and depth. I hate it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG! I'm so happy to see the DTS icon light up on the SU-DH1! 

Very quick impression of DTS:

Looks like I was right. DTS signals seem to be converted into Dolby Digital, and then converted to Dolby Headphone. The SU-DH1 converting DTS in DH2 mode sounds exactly the same as Dolby Digital -> DH2.

What this means, is that THIS is the device I NEED to have. It will convert all DTS into Dolby Headphone virtual surround. Blu-Rays are finally watchable with headphones in virtual surround!

Why, oh why can't another company make something comparable to the SU-DH1 with DTS decoding? 

Why has this been consistently scrapped? Is the DTS decoding function that expensive?

Nameless, I'd trade you my Mixamp 5.8 and some cash if you would PLEASE swap with me. 



Of course, I'm certain you wouldn't, but still, had to try.


----------



## Sabin0786

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Certainly.
> The DT990 has considerably more bass presence than the Q701. That's one thing I will fully disagree on with Chicolom who says they somewhat comparable.
> If I had to rate quantity:
> DT990 (Premium): 8.5
> ...


 
   
  This was very helpful! Since I'm new to this sort of thing can you clarify a few things for me:
   
  1. What is sparkly? I know people have mentioned the treble on 990's can hurt some people's ears when it comes to music, so I'm guessing sparkly is not a good thing?
  2. Is there a difference between soundstage and Positioning? If I had to guess is soundstage a virtual area with it's limits being how far the sound projects, and positioning how accurately you can pinpoint where sound comes from within that area? If so I imagine sound stage probably adds a lot to immersion in gaming, by creating a realistic sense of space? How much smaller is the DT990's soundstage?
   
  I'm kind of sold on DT990's at this point, since I value immersion over pinpoint accuracy, but before I bite the bullet I just want to make sure I understand exactly how much accuracy/soundstage/positioning I'm giving up in exchange for the extra bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

1. Sparkly is where treble sizzles a bit more than 'normal'. The DT990 tends to be very sizzly, though I swear the 32ohm doesn't sizzle as much as the other 990s. In any case, the treble is really not an issue when you're gaming with virtual surround, as the sound is more spread out and not as 'focused' directly into your ear, if that makes sense.

2. Yes, you got it. The DT990's soundstage is actually pretty big, but the Q701 is enormous. 

The DT990s are very accurate in positioning, have a very nice soundstage, and great positioning. If you're worried it will make a difference vs the Q701, no. Anything I rate 8 or above is all you need in terms of positioning, etc.

The DT990's comfort is very highly regarded, whereas the Q701's are consistently hated on due to the bumps. I'm odd in that I find the Q701 fine in comfort, but the DT990s are heavenly to put on due to their velours.


Okay, so noise-wise, the Victor SU-DH1 and Creative3D are pretty silent with the HE-400, whereas the Mixamp 5.8 has a very slight hiss IN comparison (for my preferred volume level).

Oddly though, going through the PS3 menus, the clicking sound from scrolling on the XMB sounds distorted through the Recon 3D. Odd indeed.


----------



## Sabin0786

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 1. Sparkly is where treble sizzles a bit more than 'normal'. The DT990 tends to be very sizzly, though I swear the 32ohm doesn't sizzle as much as the other 990s. In any case, the treble is really not an issue when you're gaming with virtual surround, as the sound is more spread out and not as 'focused' directly into your ear, if that makes sense.
> 2. Yes, you got it. The DT990's soundstage is actually pretty big, but the Q701 is enormous.
> The DT990s are very accurate in positioning, have a very nice soundstage, and great positioning. If you're worried it will make a difference vs the Q701, no. Anything I rate 8 or above is all you need in terms of positioning, etc.
> The DT990's comfort is very highly regarded, whereas the Q701's are consistently hated on due to the bumps. I'm odd in that I find the Q701 fine in comfort, but the DT990s are heavenly to put on due to their velours.


 

 Awesome. This answers everything perfectly. Man, I feel like i've learned a ton about audio in the past 2 days. I still have one more question for you:
   
  After reading through the rest of your reviews I hadn't finished up, something that struck me was how similar the DT990's and the Ultrasone Pro 900's reviewed. That makes me very curious as to how the Ultrasone HFI-2400 would stack up against the DT990, since they are both open ended cans with an emphasis on bass. Since the HFI-2400 aren't in your first post, I'm assuming you haven't got to try them. There is a chance you have though, so I'll ask-- any insight into how the HFI-2400 stack up against the rest?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had a chance to try the Pro 2900 (which is basically a Pro 900 in open form). The review is right on my guide.

The DT990 has more bass presence than the Pro 2900.

I prefer the DT990 over both the Ultrasones, actually. I found the Ultrasones to both have really recessed mids, and the treble sounded even more metallic than the 990s. The saving grace of the Pro 2900 was it's bass articulation.

Also, the Pro 2900's soundstage was pretty closed sounding for an open headphone.

The Pro 900 has considerably more bass than the DT990 Premiums. Also, I wasn't a fan of S-logic overall, but it wasn't an issue with the Mixamp.


----------



## calpis

@MLE,
  You could just get a receiver like mine since it'll do DTS -> DH 
  You also won't have much problem driving any set of cans since this thing outputs a lot of power through the headphone jack. I set my HK receiver to about -17db (which is already pretty loud) and it will go up to +10db.


----------



## Eric_C

MixAmp 5.8 question:
  On PC, how do you connect it for mic chat? I have the old pre-2010 wired MixAmp, and it has a "PC mic" port on the back...but I see that the 5.8 doesn't.
   
  Edit: Nevermind, found the answer http://forums.astrogaming.com/showthread.php?4642-Wired-vs.-Wireless-MixAmp-Comparison


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but how much will that cost? 

Ans what receiver?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, but how much will that cost?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Harman Kardon AVR-254. The only bad thing is that it is a tiny bit old so it doesn't support any of the HD formats like DTS-MA. Oh, and it only has 2 hdmi ports. I believe that the series after this one still had DH, could be wrong though.
   
  As far as price, I traded a set of AiAiAi TMA-1's for it. HK sells refurbs on ebay every once in a while.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Sabin0786* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Juggling the added oomph of the the bass in the DT990 vs. the better detail/positional accuracy of the Q701's. I'm not really in a position where I can go demo these things, so I'm pretty much stuck basing it off information I read on the internet. I've googled "DT990 vs. Q701", and read pretty much every thread that compares them, but I've just run into a ton of confusing/dissenting opinions. Some people saying the bass of the Q701 is only slightly less than the DT990, others say it's a huge difference. Same for the detail/accuracy/soundstage-- some people say it's only a small difference, some say the Q701's have much better precision for picking out details. I'm just hoping to get more feedback from people in this thread who have used both.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 has considerably more bass presence than the Q701. That's one thing I will fully disagree on with Chicolom who says they somewhat comparable.
> If I had to rate quantity:
> DT990 (Premium): 8.5
> Q701: 7
> ...


 
   
   
  If you googled DT990 vs Q701 you probably saw my thread...
   
_I edited my review to __make it more clear that the DT990 does in fact have moar bass._
   
  I agree with everything MLE said above ^ - the DT990 _definitely _has more slam and impact.  Its just that I don't hear the difference as being _that_ huge.  For me, a bass boost will _almost _(not quite) get the Q701s up to DT990s, but they still won't ever have quite the slam of the DT990.  I just don't miss is that much.  I don't think you can EQ that slam in (_maybe_ with the DSS v1 - that thing could make my KSC75s slam!!) 
   
  I would just classify it more as "noticeably more bass".  When I read "considerably more bass", to me that sort of means "don't even bother trying to EQ it up that high".  Like to get Headphone A even close to Headphone B you would have to rape it with multiple bass boosts, to the point where you should just be using a different headphone. 
   
  Now my CALs in comparison do have what I would call "considerably more bass presence" than either of them. Sure it's a dirtier bass compared to the other two, but in terms of quantity the DT990 can't touch it.
   
  With no EQ, the DT990s treble unfortunately cancelled out the enjoyment I got out of its bass, whereas the Q701 I enjoy the bass, _and _I love the treble.  If you love the treble of the DT990 though, I see NO reason not to go for it.
   
  Keep in mind that bass isn't a top priority for me, so I just don't weight it as much as other things.  Soundstage is a _huge _priority for me though, which is why I held onto the AD700s for soooo long


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> Harman Kardon AVR-254. The only bad thing is that it is a tiny bit old so it doesn't support any of the HD formats like DTS-MA. Oh, and it only has 2 hdmi ports. I believe that the series after this one still had DH, could be wrong though.
> 
> As far as price, I traded a set of AiAiAi TMA-1's for it. HK sells refurbs on ebay every once in a while.




I see it on Amazon for a bit over $200.

Hmmmmmm... maybe at some point in the future.

I don't care about lossless support, as It's mostly for the headphones, and perhaps a 2.1 setup. I assume you're feeding the audio through HDMI into the receiver? I only have two HDMI sources anyways.

This is more in the future though, as I'm not in the best place work-wise and financially overall, lol.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, I guess you use your PS3 for blu-rays, but I know if you use a laptop or HTPC with a bluray drive you can use programs like PowerDVD which have built in dolby headphone encoding.  I _think _you can also output that DH to DACs and Amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My PC doesn't have a BD drive (didn't wanna spend more when I'm happy with the PS3.

calpis, you know the output impedance on the headphone jack for your receiver?


----------



## calpis

Crap, my bad. I have the AVR-247 not the 254. The 247 is 1 model year older than the 254. I also have no idea where to find the output impedance for the headphone jack 
   
  I have my Sextetts which are rated at 600ohms and I did need to bump up the volume for those to get a good listening volume.


----------



## illbleed

I posted once before about having trouble with my mixamp and astro headset.. well i sent them in and they replaced the mixamp but not the headset. So the mixamp is fixed, i no longer get uneven sound. Still cant really pinpoint where sounds come like they are advertised.. in your review for the ax720, you said that they werent that great. my astro headset is no where near as good as the ax720. I was hoping you could try to get a review out for it. I was hoping to buy the q701, but dont have enough money at the moment for it. So now its between the pc360 and the ad700, which according to your reviews, they have about the same score.. maybe you can compare the two against each other? The mic wouldnt be a big issue. Im hoping the pc360 at least sounds as good as the astro. Im leanning toward the ad700 more cause its cheaper. i really loved my ax720. So im kinda confused how good the ad700s are. sorry if i asked to many questions lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys with the Recond3D USB, do you know if the software tweaks are basically just for custom equalizing, or can you tweak other aspects of sound? I'll probably test it out tomorrow, but don't wanna jump into it if it's just EQ tweaking.

I guess all that's left for me to try out is the DSS2, and perhaps Sony's proprietary virtual surround for its headset. Oh yes, Silent Cinema, though it doesn't seem to be as good as the Recon's THX surround, by recent comments.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> I posted once before about having trouble with my mixamp and astro headset.. well i sent them in and they replaced the mixamp but not the headset. So the mixamp is fixed, i no longer get uneven sound. Still cant really pinpoint where sounds come like they are advertised.. in your review for the ax720, you said that they werent that great. my astro headset is no where near as good as the ax720. I was hoping you could try to get a review out for it. I was hoping to buy the q701, but dont have enough money at the moment for it. So now its between the pc360 and the ad700, which according to your reviews, they have about the same score.. maybe you can compare the two against each other? The mic wouldnt be a big issue. Im hoping the pc360 at least sounds as good as the astro. Im leanning toward the ad700 more cause its cheaper. i really loved my ax720. So im kinda confused how good the ad700s are. sorry if i asked to many questions lol.


 
  Keep in mind MLE mentions many times that the scores he gives aren't to be used in direct comparison with each other, but rather an objective number as to how well the HP compares in that aspect of its use (ie: competitive, fun, ect.) If you liked the sound qualities of the AX720 headset then I would say that you might be let down with the AD700. I wouldn't say that the AX720 has "good" bass, but it is quite plentiful. Going to a HP that has been described with "anemic" bass would be a mistake IMHO (...but I have no idea what you're looking for). After owning the AX720, and having auditioned the AD900, I would say that they two completely different beasts.... although the AD900s were superior in every aspect except for how much bass is throws out. The quality of bass was better, and had much better definition, but little to no impact. I've read that the AD700s have even less. 
   
  Having already owned two headsets you should have a pretty good idea of what characteristics (bass, mids, highs, soundstage ect.) you're looking for and listing them will help the community in suggesting what HPs to check out/research further.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You guys with the Recond3D USB, do you know if the software tweaks are basically just for custom equalizing, or can you tweak other aspects of sound? I'll probably test it out tomorrow, but don't wanna jump into it if it's just EQ tweaking.
> I guess all that's left for me to try out is the DSS2, and perhaps Sony's proprietary virtual surround for its headset. Oh yes, Silent Cinema, though it doesn't seem to be as good as the Recon's THX surround, by recent comments.


 
   
  Funny you say that because I have a stand alone Sony decoder box. Sony MDR-DS1000 was the only wired virtual surround package they made and it came with one of their crappiest headphones they've made that I ended up donating. The decoder box itself worked like intended but in the end I preferred DH to it. I don't think I've even used it in the past 2 years. I never did get rid of it because I could still use it if I ever went to a lan party or something. Now that I have a mixamp owning both is pretty pointless. I'd like to try it again but it's in a moving box somewhere and I don't have the urge to go and find it.
   
  Edit: Correction, Sony MDR-DS8000 also had a headphone jack but was also wireless via IR. Pretty insane but the headphones did head tracking just like the beyer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My bad, I meant the newer headsets that have some newer Sony DSP. Its the ones that directly sync up with the PS3.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> You guys with the Recond3D USB, do you know if the software tweaks are basically just for custom equalizing, or can you tweak other aspects of sound? I'll probably test it out tomorrow, but don't wanna jump into it if it's just EQ tweaking.
> I guess all that's left for me to try out is the DSS2, and perhaps Sony's proprietary virtual surround for its headset. Oh yes, Silent Cinema, though it doesn't seem to be as good as the Recon's THX surround, by recent comments.





Aaah! Quick before battery dies!
The standard band EQ is actually a few sidebar tabs down, there are other adjustments besides! Don't remember all of them but you can tailor the strength of the surround effect, and I think they have a basic bass boost which when combined with the crossover is basically a dumb-Man's way to choose how broad a spectrum of bass you wanna boost, like leave midbass alone and just up the sub bass. There's also stuff like compressed music restorer, chat effects (meh) and I don't remember what all right now but they had a Buncha stuff. IMO maxing surround effect doesn't make it sound echoey, but perhaps less than max makes for better positioning? I dunno!

Like what other aspects do you mean?

Ah battery @1%!!!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so noise-wise, the Victor SU-DH1 and Creative3D are pretty silent with the HE-400, whereas the Mixamp 5.8 has a very slight hiss IN comparison (for my preferred volume level).
> Oddly though, going through the PS3 menus, the clicking sound from scrolling on the XMB sounds distorted through the Recon 3D. Odd indeed.




I also noticed distortion with the Halo: Reach into cutscene (before you get to the start menu). I think the Recon3D gets confused with some audio, and sometimes it feels like the audio swims around the positioning zones. But it seems fine in actual gameplay. Also something odd: yesterday treble was very harsh playing oblivion, but the day before it was fine. Stuff I'm used to like the clink of picking locks. So it was weird, cuz I didn't change a setting.

And scout mode does have it's uses, but like I said it compresses all the volumes to a smaller medium range, so quiets are louder and louds are quieter. It gives a big f-u to any settings of turning down background music or whatever, but like I said with Reach and CoD, it made some of the more startling sounds less startling. Not a fidelity setting, but I will use it sometimes.

Just curious, as I find that the Recon3D's amp section to be a somewhat weak link, why aren't you amping with your NFB-5 instead of the little FiiO? You don't use that amp much anymore?


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I guess all that's left for me to try out is the DSS2, and perhaps Sony's proprietary virtual surround for its headset. Oh yes, Silent Cinema, though it doesn't seem to be as good as the Recon's THX surround, by recent comments.


 
   
  You should really try out the Turtle Beach PX5/XP500/Ear force Delta box if there is any way you can get your hands on it. I have the PX5 and have been really impressed with it so far. I think the actual wireless headphones are pretty decent but I'm mostly referring to the box. The software for the wireless headphones is pretty amazing also - way more than just EQ settings. If I wasn't supporting my wife through PA school I would ship mine to you, but alas I am too poor to even buy myself a decent pair of wired cans.


----------



## I95North

Oh well sending my used USB recon 3d back to its seller. I tried everything imaginable to get it to work half decent. Already orderd a new one and today I should receive it. The used one was either defective or maybe it's the way the device is susposed to work. "audio going low and then Normalizing by it's self". Kinda like some compressor was at work but was very slow in returning volume back to normal the sound just kept going up then down ever so slightly..

Yup if the brand new one I expect to get today does the same thing I will return it also and go back to using my dss2 and mixamp


----------



## Naingolann

Great stuff there MLE. Thanks for reviewing those devices.
   
  The Recon sure is disappointing, but the SU-DH1 is really appetizing, especially for those who also watch movies on their consoles. Too bad it's near impossible to find around.
   
  It'd be great to read your thoughts on the DSS2 too, although I'm not really expecting much from it.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Great stuff there MLE. Thanks for reviewing those devices.
> 
> The Recon sure is disappointing, but the SU-DH1 is really appetizing, especially for those who also watch movies on their consoles. Too bad it's near impossible to find around.
> 
> It'd be great to read your thoughts on the DSS2 too, although I'm not really expecting much from it.


 
  If you find one of the SU-DH1 anywhere new besides maybe japan for less than what the astro mixamp cost please let me know i'd like to try it out also. The DSS2 is ok the only thing i don't like is some of the eq settings make it sound really lofi.. The other thing about the DSS2 that i find out even with the mixamp its hard to actually tell when someone is 6:00 directly behind you or 7 and 5 oclock close proximity but maybe neither product is able to actually do that and i'm expecting to much for DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

EVShrug, I can't use the NFB5, as it doesn't have analog inputs. The NFB5 must be used source first (meaning digital inputs only). The only way I could use it is if I bought an ADC (analog to dogital converter). So it'd be going from digital to analog, back to digital, back to analog. Not sure how much all that converting would alter sound, and for $26, not really wanting to find out.



fa11ou7 said:


> You should really try out the Turtle Beach PX5/XP500/Ear force Delta box if there is any way you can get your hands on it. I have the PX5 and have been really impressed with it so far. I think the actual wireless headphones are pretty decent but I'm mostly referring to the box. The software for the wireless headphones is pretty amazing also - way more than just EQ settings. If I wasn't supporting my wife through PA school I would ship mine to you, but alas I am too poor to even buy myself a decent pair of wired cans.




No reason to try those, as they all use Dolby Headphone, which sounds identical on all amps. All I'd be testing is the headsets themselves. I've already seen plenty of impressions on AVS for those headsets, and I've come away with them not being good enough for audiophiles.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> If you find one of the SU-DH1 anywhere new besides maybe japan for less than what the astro mixamp cost please let me know i'd like to try it out also. The DSS2 is ok the only thing i don't like is some of the eq settings make it sound really lofi.. The other thing about the DSS2 that i find out even with the mixamp its hard to actually tell when someone is 6:00 directly behind you or 7 and 5 oclock close proximity but maybe neither product is able to actually do that and i'm expecting to much for DH.



Wait.......... are you using a Mixamp AND the DSS2 at the same time?? Maybe the two processors are trying to calculate rear at the same time, one of them from the stereo signal... Also, the DSS2 is Turtle Beach's processor AFTER they lost/ stopped paying for the Dolby 7.1 to DH processing FWIR, so it may explain why the processing cues aren't particularly accurate. After all, it's not true channel-less 3D audio, like you can get on PC.

Most people agree that the DSS was better than the DSS2. Keep in mind, I'm just basing this off of Amazon reviews, not first-hand experience, though the only Head-Fi post I read on the subject seemed to confirm it.

I'm leeching a school wi-Fi right now, hopefully when I get home in two hours I'll get to play with Recon3D software settings. For example, I haven't found the FPS shooter preset yet, I'd be interested to see what settings it changes and the effect on sound. Also the changes from each setting, like the effect from the surround slider... I think the built in THX video-audio sample is a poor one, because most of the action sounds nice, but most things are placed in front of you. So I'll probably use cutscenes from Starcraft2, with mutalisks and banshees flying all around 

Mad, do you have Reach? I do highly recommend testing the audio of that game... If you can't stand recharging shields (which CoD characters have anyway, just don't show it!), at least you should give the first mission's starting cutscene a listen. Back to front flying VTOLs, jeeps driving around, people talking with their backs turned, etc. Plus armored buttocks, of you're into that kind of thing 

Edit: Also, too bad about your reference amp. I agree all those conversions can't be good. So, do you think I'm missing out with the Recon3D & I ought to return it and buy a DSS? Or just not have surround until I can afford a Mixamp, which will probably be a while with my GF's birthday present looking to be more expensive than a new pair of KSC75? (she really needs portable speakers loud enough to replace a crappy wal-mart boombox used to teach Zumba exercise, happen to have any suggestions?) I'm tempted still to just get one of those $30 eBay DSS and work with that till I can afford a NICE amp like an O2 or M-Stage like chicolom has... but I'm still happy with my Mac sound solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case, I'll call the Recond 3D "Dolby Headphone *Lite*". It's definitely a viable alternative, but with some glaring issues with panning, distortion with certain sound effects, and rear positional cues not being up to snuff.

I'm not a Halo fan, so no Reach.

The damn Recon doesn't install properly on my computer. The massive headache ain't worth it, so I'll just be doing the review for the Recon 3D in it's default config.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> In any case, I'll call the Recond 3D "Dolby Headphone *Lite*". It's definitely a viable alternative, but with some glaring issues with panning, distortion with certain sound effects, and rear positional cues not being up to snuff.
> I'm not a Halo fan, so no Reach.




LOL it's the shields and aliens, right? Or they just should've stopped at Halo2? Lol! It's ok, seems like lots of people I've met who like CoD say they prefer the "realistic" setting and custom class weapons, while my friends who play halo like both games, but find the skill ceiling higher on Halo. Nobody likes noob tubes or armor lock, HA! I mostly play CoD4 and BO, but I find a lot to love about Halo when I play it. I love games! Couldn't get through Gears of War tho, too clunky and imprecise for me.

But games aside, am I missing out in a pairing with my Q701? Or might I not even hear a difference? I mean, I am pleased with the Recon3D, it would be pretty easy to live with and I find it very convenient, and I'm glad the market has choices and competition... But at the end of the day, I am curious about the grass on the other side of the fence just like everybody else. I guess you're set in your review... It's up to me if I choose to be content. I have a feeling I may stress my credit card to do my own side-by-side before my Recon3D's return period ends...

Well anyway, I'll test default vs tweaks. I feel like the positioning of the Recon3D was pretty good, I'll have be the one to see if default vs. tweaks makes all the difference. Maybe the software installed hassle free for me because I installed on a Mac, and had wiped out all other audio drivers?


----------



## okdark

Great job man!! just ordered the KSC75 thanks to you, althoguh I wanted the gamecom637  but I heard they brake fast...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> LOL it's the shields and aliens, right? Or they just should've stopped at Halo2? Lol! It's ok, seems like lots of people I've met who like CoD say they prefer the "realistic" setting and custom class weapons, while my friends who play halo like both games, but find the skill ceiling higher on Halo. Nobody likes noob tubes or armor lock, HA! I mostly play CoD4 and BO, but I find a lot to love about Halo when I play it. I love games! Couldn't get through Gears of War tho, too clunky and imprecise for me.
> But games aside, am I just missing out in a pairing with my Q701? I mean, I am pleased with the Recon3D, it would be pretty easy to live with and I find it very convenient, and I'm glad the market has choices and competition... But at the end of the day, I am curious about the grass on the other side of the fence just like everybody else. So?




I LOVE Sci-fi games. I just feel the Halo games are too open in the campaign, and too floaty and slow in Multiplayer. I prefer smaller, faster, and more focused action.

Ironically, I have played and beat each one. I even bought Halo Anniversary and Halo 3.

The Recond 3D is good. Could be better, but it's good. I'd say it's 75% the Mixamp.


----------



## crzycuyler

Why am I enjoying the KSC75 soo much? I'm returning my K550 and A900X. Until I find headphones that blow me away, I'll use these wickedly impressive little things. 
   
  EDIT: I know what it is I'm loving about them: Fantastic separation and a surprising soundstage. Does anyone else get that? I guess that is what I am looking for in a headphone. So the Q701 is sounding more and more like an option. Anything with better separation and soundstage?


----------



## AxelCloris

Glad you like them! The KSC75s are my personal favorite budget headphones currently. If you like their sound I'd recommend checking out the Q701s. But also take your time. If you love the KSC75, why spend the extra money? No need to upgrade right away unless you feel them lacking. There's a HUGE difference in overall sound from those to the Qs to my ear. And to me it was worth the difference, but I can't let my little Koss go. They're my go-to portable for soundstage.
   
  For bigger soundstage, there are some out there. But I like the distance that the Q701 gives. Not too big, not too small. For me it's just right. And I know Chico and MLE would agree with that as well.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Keep in mind MLE mentions many times that the scores he gives aren't to be used in direct comparison with each other, but rather an objective number as to how well the HP compares in that aspect of its use (ie: competitive, fun, ect.) If you liked the sound qualities of the AX720 headset then I would say that you might be let down with the AD700. I wouldn't say that the AX720 has "good" bass, but it is quite plentiful. Going to a HP that has been described with "anemic" bass would be a mistake IMHO (...but I have no idea what you're looking for). After owning the AX720, and having auditioned the AD900, I would say that they two completely different beasts.... although the AD900s were superior in every aspect except for how much bass is throws out. The quality of bass was better, and had much better definition, but little to no impact. I've read that the AD700s have even less.
> 
> Having already owned two headsets you should have a pretty good idea of what characteristics (bass, mids, highs, soundstage ect.) you're looking for and listing them will help the community in suggesting what HPs to check out/research further.


 
  Okay i see. 
  What im looking for is a headset that works great for competative gaming, and also just for great sound. I would like sound quality wise, or bass, a bit better than the ax720. I cant really compare the a40s with ax720s, except that the sound for the a40 is much better, the bass is a bit weird at first, but i can enjoy it. So pretty much something along the lines of a40 sound quality or better, but im looking for something with more imaging and pinpoint accuracy with the distance & location of sounds. 
  My 3 headphones/headset i would consider are the Pc360, q701, or the DT990 Pro or Premium. Microphone isnt a big deal like i said before.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All three would blow those other headsets away, though the PC360 and Q701 shouldn't have that much more bass than the A40s. The A40s and AX720 are closed headphones (despite the A40s having the option to take off the tags, they still sound closed). Closed headphones will always present bass differently than open cans, with more presence, even if the impact was less.

The DT990 Premium would be my fave choice out of all of those, but they'll want amping. Q701 would come next, and they're even more picky with amps. The PC360 doesn't need an amp, and the bass is balanced, but not strong.

All three do great in positioning and soundstage.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All three would blow those other headsets away, though the PC360 and Q701 shouldn't have that much more bass than the A40s. The A40s and AX720 are closed headphones (despite the A40s having the option to take off the tags, they still sound closed). Closed headphones will always present bass differently than open cans, with more presence, even if the impact was less.
> The DT990 Premium would be my fave choice out of all of those, but they'll want amping. Q701 would come next, and they're even more picky with amps. The PC360 doesn't need an amp, and the bass is balanced, but not strong.
> All three do great in positioning and soundstage.


 
  My amp is the mixamp. i also use it on my computer, but i really dont know what soundcard i have. It just says HD Sound card lol.
  As for my mixamp i hook it up to my xbox. The games i currently play the most are Dark souls, League of Legends, and mw3. Although im waiting on Black Ops 2. Im mostly considering the pc360, as long as they are equal or better to a40 sound. From what you're telling me id be happy with either pc360 or q701. As for strong bass, thats not really a big issue for me. If you could, what would you give the a40 headset on the fun level, and competitive level?


----------



## illbleed

are the audio technica ATH a700 any good for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't give the A40s a rating because I owned the first gen A40, which sounds different from the newer ones. I didn't like the old A40 at all. Really hollow sound, small soundstage, and little bass. The PC360 walks all over the old A40s.

They were my first foray into headphone gaming, and I don't remember everything about them enough to give them a review.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm tempted still to just get one of those $30 eBay DSS and work with that till I can afford a NICE amp like an O2 or M-Stage like chicolom has... but I'm still happy with my Mac sound solution.


 
   
  $30 for a DSS is a good deal! 
  Dang, I might pick one up again just to play with its bass boost...


----------



## Evshrug

illbleed said:


> are the audio technica ATH a700 any good for gaming?



Ho man, I heard those a looong time ago... Mostly all I can say firmly is I wasn't wowed by them, though I was by the AD700 that replaced them. Read my original AD700 review if you want impression on how the two compared. Every once in a while in my journey I look back and think of how magical the experience was and how content I was with my gear. Then, around the end of last year... I dunno, I got upgradeitis. Some of that attitude is still there though, I'm wondering how much I care about headphone surround and just get a nice amp for music - I mean for a long time headphone gaming lost out to the convenience of playing the game quiet on tv speakers, just because my ears get too sensitive to any irritant.

If you get AD700s for gaming, any future upgradeitis may be targeted for music as a compliment to the AD700, IMO.

Maybe I'm just jaded today...


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> $30 for a DSS is a good deal!
> Dang, I might pick one up again just to play with its bass boost... :evil:




http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-DSS-7-1-Surround-Sound-Processor-/251149375059?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3a79ab5653

M-Stage or O2? Or little Dot I+?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> M-Stage or O2? Or little Dot I+?


 
   
  Are you asking which amp I prefer?  Because I've only heard the M-stage.  I can't speak for any of the others, but people seem to like the O2 as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just gave the Recon3D a good day's worth of gaming. BLOPS, ME3, and some demos.

I did exceptionally well in BLOPS. Not sure how much was the skill to sound whoring ratio, but I did well.

I still say it's Dolby Headphone Lite™.

So if you happen to own the Recon, you may not see Dolby Headphone as a revelation.

However, if you are coming from Dolby Headphone amps to the Recon, you will notice the shortcomings on the Recon (hard, inaccurate pannings, and weaker rear positional cues, as well as some inconsistent sound quality as if the Recon auto-EQs, not to mention the horrible Scout Mode that collapses the sound stage and adds mid range/upper mid emphasis...)

I feel I have enough experience with the Recon to form a listing on the guide. The SU-DH1 is more or less the same as the Mixamp with DTS decoding into Dolby Headphone, the addition of DH1 and DH3, and no chat capabilities.

I'll put the listings up sooner or later.

The Recond3D is pretty decent in it's THX mode despite some shortcomings, but I personally recommend saving up for a Mixamp Pro or AX720.


----------



## Eric_C

A bit random, but I realise that the question on double-amping comes up every now and then. We tend to accept it as a necessary evil, since devices like the MixAmp can struggle to achieve sufficient volume with our headphones like the Beyers and whatnot at 250+ Ohms.
   
  Stumbled upon this post in the Objective2 thread that explains how, sometimes, double-amping can improve sound quality, not just quantity:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/568705/review-nwavguys-o2-diy-amplifier/1080#post_8150435
   
  Y'know, in case anyone was curious.


----------



## Scylin

Hey Mad Lust Envy,
   
  Thanks a lot for the info on the different types of headphones in the thread, I'm actually basing my purchase on some new starter cans on this guide, thanks a bunch!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No problem, Scylin. 

For those in the US, the Best Buy website has the AX720 for $109 right now...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Tritton-Technologies---AX-720-Gaming-Audio-System-for-Xbox,-PS3-and-Mac/Windows/9466124.p?id=1218109500597&skuId=9466124

Pretty sure you get the newer AX720s, and not the ones shown.

If you do not have a Dolby Headphone device, you definitely should jump on this in a mad hurry. DH amp + decent headset (*Gaming headset *standards, not* Head-fi* standards) for $109 is seriously worth getting.


----------



## I95North

evshrug said:


> Wait.......... are you using a Mixamp AND the DSS2 at the same time?? Maybe the two processors are trying to calculate rear at the same time, one of them from the stereo signal... Also, the DSS2 is Turtle Beach's processor AFTER they lost/ stopped paying for the Dolby 7.1 to DH processing FWIR, so it may explain why the processing cues aren't particularly accurate. After all, it's not true channel-less 3D audio, like you can get on PC.
> Most people agree that the DSS was better than the DSS2. Keep in mind, I'm just basing this off of Amazon reviews, not first-hand experience, though the only Head-Fi post I read on the subject seemed to confirm it.
> I'm leeching a school wi-Fi right now, hopefully when I get home in two hours I'll get to play with Recon3D software settings. For example, I haven't found the FPS shooter preset yet, I'd be interested to see what settings it changes and the effect on sound. Also the changes from each setting, like the effect from the surround slider... I think the built in THX video-audio sample is a poor one, because most of the action sounds nice, but most things are placed in front of you. So I'll probably use cutscenes from Starcraft2, with mutalisks and banshees flying all around
> Mad, do you have Reach? I do highly recommend testing the audio of that game... If you can't stand recharging shields (which CoD characters have anyway, just don't show it!), at least you should give the first mission's starting cutscene a listen. Back to front flying VTOLs, jeeps driving around, people talking with their backs turned, etc. Plus armored buttocks, of you're into that kind of thing
> Edit: Also, too bad about your reference amp. I agree all those conversions can't be good. So, do you think I'm missing out with the Recon3D & I ought to return it and buy a DSS? Or just not have surround until I can afford a Mixamp, which will probably be a while with my GF's birthday present looking to be more expensive than a new pair of KSC75? (she really needs portable speakers loud enough to replace a crappy wal-mart boombox used to teach Zumba exercise, happen to have any suggestions?) I'm tempted still to just get one of those $30 eBay DSS and work with that till I can afford a NICE amp like an O2 or M-Stage like chicolom has... but I'm still happy with my Mac sound solution.




Yeah maybe I did not make it clear I do have both devices but don't use both at same time it's either one or the other.. The DSS2 does work but it could be better just based on the dsp thats under the hood but that's not the case. The dss2 has three eq settings that work for me and two surround angles only. Also If the dss2 had software that you could tweak your own settings I think it would be top dog over all others DH decoders but it doesn't.. Most of the eq presets sound sub par..


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No problem, Scylin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Not bad at all, I talked my work into buying one of these to see if we could get the mic to work with our wireless transmitter/receiver units but it was too sensitive and would pickup every little noise around it. Worked out for me tho because I was able to take it home after playing with it and its connected to my computer now. The proprietary cable that you have to use with the box is annoying and there are not enough hookups for my liking on the box itself but it sounds just fine. 
  Anyone have any experience with the Sennheiser PC 350 headsets? I'm curious what the difference in sound is vs the PC 360, is it just closed vs open?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IF it was just closed vs open, that is in itself like having two completely different headphones. You can't ever think a closed headphone will ever compare to an open one. The closest experience for me would be the DT770 and DT880/990. They are very different despite retaining the Beyer sound signature.

The Pro 900 and Pro 2900 is my other experience, but they did sound similar, albeit with the Pro 900 having a LOT more bass. However, I felt the Pro 2900 to have a very closed sound, despite being open. I blame the cup design. It's vented, but it's largely covered in the center. They are the closest thing I've seen to semi-open.

Well that, and the A40s with the speaker tags removed, but the tags don't seem to do anything to the sound. They sound closed no matter what.


----------



## TheKarakiri

Very helpful!


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Are you asking which amp I prefer?  Because I've only heard the M-stage.  I can't speak for any of the others, but people seem to like the O2 as well.




Yeah, just asking if you would still choose the same amp if you had to start over.

As far as Recon3D vs Mixamp, I decided that even if it has only an estimated 75% performance of the Mixamp, it only cost about 50%. Since it acts as a soundcard for my Mac too, well... I'm happy with it. I didn't get a chance to play around with settings last night because I was being a good doobie and helping out my girlfriend instead, but if I ever reliably replicate the random EQ glitching and demonstrably fix it via tweaking or customer support, I'll report back.

I did notice a performance boost gaming on my computer. The Recon3D may not have the XRAM (at least advertised) as the best X-Fi models, but it definitely handles all the audio processing because I maxed out my sound quality settings (normaly CPU intensive) on Starcraft2 (a particularly CPU intensive game, especially in longer matches with big armies) and get great framerates (except when playing an opponent with a laggy Internet connection). My computer has an Intel core i3 2105 CPU, Nvidia GeForce GTS 250 GPU, 1080p monitor, an SSD (which just affects loading times), and 8GB RAM. A fine mid-fi platform if I do say so myself.

Mad,
The Q701 is considered a semi-open headphone. IMO it's a barely kind of thing, like maybe just a technicality, but still.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 is as open as it gets. Ironically, they advertise the K701 as open. They're essentially the same headphone, bar some sonic variation.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yeah, just asking if you would still choose the same amp if you had to start over.
> As far as Recon3D vs Mixamp, I decided that even if it has only an estimated 75% performance of the Mixamp, it only cost about 50%. Since it acts as a soundcard for my Mac too, well... I'm happy with it. I didn't get a chance to play around with settings last night because I was being a good doobie and helping out my girlfriend instead, but if I ever reliably replicate the random EQ glitching and demonstrably fix it via tweaking or customer support, I'll report back.
> I did notice a performance boost gaming on my computer. The Recon3D may not have the XRAM (at least advertised) as the best X-Fi models, but it definitely handles all the audio processing because I maxed out my sound quality settings (normaly CPU intensive) on Starcraft2 (a particularly CPU intensive game, especially in longer matches with big armies) and get great framerates (except when playing an opponent with a laggy Internet connection). My computer has an Intel core i3 2105 CPU, Nvidia GeForce GTS 250 GPU, 1080p monitor, an SSD (which just affects loading times), and 8GB RAM. A fine mid-fi platform if I do say so myself.
> Mad,
> The Q701 is considered a semi-open headphone. IMO it's a barely kind of thing, like maybe just a technicality, but still.


 

 I know you was asking chicolom but If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't had got the Matrix M-Stage . I would had actually got the NFB-12 that I have now then like I wanted. As I was close to getting one before the I got the M-stage but at the time was short on shipping when I was trying to get it from another user on this forum. 
   
  The Matrix M-Stage wasn't a bad amp, I enjoyed every bit of it. But If i could rewind time. I would stop my self and get what I have now that i was at the time trying todo but short by like 3 dollars. But I couldn't wait to get those 3 dollars.


----------



## crzycuyler

Anybody have any ideas about how the HD700 performs for gaming? I have an incredible opportunity to get these at a fantastic price. The other pair that I've come across a great deal for is the W1000X. If anyone has any clue as to how these might game, let me know. Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

genclaymore said:


> I know you was asking chicolom but If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't had got the Matrix M-Stage . I would had actually got the NFB-12 that I have now then like I wanted. As I was close to getting one before the I got the M-stage but at the time was short on shipping when I was trying to get it from another user on this forum.
> 
> The Matrix M-Stage wasn't a bad amp, I enjoyed every bit of it. But If i could rewind time. I would stop my self and get what I have now that i was at the time trying todo but short by like 3 dollars. But I couldn't wait to get those 3 dollars.




Haven't even heard of that amp, but I guess it's in the same family as Mad's amp too. Is it really just a $3 difference? Lol. But sadly, I may have to wait... I was talking about gf gifts, bills, wanting to move & save for a car... Well, on my way between jobs today (first day at the radio station!), my transmission started slamming into gear from full stops  it's probably going to cost so much that it'll be totaled now.



crzycuyler said:


> Anybody have any ideas about how the HD700 performs for gaming? I have an incredible opportunity to get these at a fantastic price. The other pair that I've come across a great deal for is the W1000X. If anyone has any clue as to how these might game, let me know. Thanks!




Well geez, the HD700 are supposed to be most of the way to the HD800, open, great soundstage, so even without hearing them, if you can get them at a steal, they'll greatly outperform Astros or the other headphones you originally considered when you first got here  You might be the one to write the gaming review on them. In light of my financial emergency, however, I will say make sure you aren't overreaching your budget. Also, while music audio is increasing with the sky as the limit, gaming audio has in a few cases taken a step back, and consoles are even more limited than computer gaming. But yeah, those HD700 may be your forever cans. The W1000X are very luxurious, but you gotta know what you're getting into with the headband, closed back, and the highly likely obsessive habit of cleaning and polishing them, probably best for music and for someone who is experienced to know what sound signature they are looking for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My water pump just dropped all my fluid a few days ago. Time to replace it and the timing belt... all without knowing if I'll have work in a few weeks.

I may have to sell my NFB5 to keep me from going utterly broke. I'm quite happy with the E17 for now.


----------



## Mikesin

Lol thanks, wouldn't think the beyers would beat the K702... but the HD800 i'd understand.

 I hope you know that I don't even use a soundcard anymore! Upgraded my computer and now the motherboard doesn't even have a PCI slot for the soundcard to go in. So I need a card such as the Asus Xonar Essence STX, for it to fit into my computer, although its tight as I have my cards in SLI. 

 I have my Matrix M-Stage (AMP) and FiiO E17 (DAC) into my computer, and thats all i use , out of the headphones I use my AKG K702 or HE-400, all other things in my signature are either stored away or  not used at all anymore. Apart from the ASTRO Mixamp which is only used for the PS3. Infact I don't even use Dolby Headphone on the computer, ever. I find it ruins the sound for games that I play. I only use DH on the PS3 , and its definitely a improvement on that.

  
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> They are both better in both
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> My water pump just dropped all my fluid a few days ago. Time to replace it and the timing belt... all without knowing if I'll have work in a few weeks.
> I may have to sell my NFB5 to keep me from going utterly broke. I'm quite happy with the E17 for now.



Spring is for cleaning, apparently now is Fall Fixing season. Glad you're happy with the FiiO, and that audio gear is easy to flip when you have the need.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Haven't even heard of that amp, but I guess it's in the same family as Mad's amp too. Is it really just a $3 difference? Lol. But sadly, I may have to wait... I was talking about gf gifts, bills, wanting to move & save for a car... Well, on my way between jobs today (first day at the radio station!), my transmission started slamming into gear from full stops
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  When I said 3 dollars short, I meant from buying it from a user prior to me getting that Matrix M-Stage. I didn't mean from audio-GD them selves.  Before I got the M-Stage I was in the middle of getting the NFB-12 from another user on these forums but was short 3 dollars to pay for the shipping from the person. Which why I ended up with the Matrix M-Stage instead.  Kinda what happens when your impaction and want something to come now and not a couple day later.
   
  Edit: Now I have to hope I don't flip any more gear my self. Because I been doing that alot lately. I surf the forums then I see some other headphone that peak my inerest or gear. Then in up selling what I have just to add with whatever money i save just to get it. Just because I got curious. Same with sources. This time I making sure i don't do that to the NFB-12 I have or this A900X. It was already bad enough I did that with computer hardware mainly graphics cards.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 is as open as it gets. Ironically, they advertise the K701 as open. They're essentially the same headphone, bar some sonic variation.


 
   
  Don't forget the Q badges - _they completely change the sound and add bass and warmth while converting it to semi-open_.  > That was sarcasm in case anyone missed ii - the Q badges don't change the sound at all.
   
  Semi-open is sort of a grey area category, and there aren't as many headphones marketed as "semi-open" open and closed.  DT880 and K240 are marketed as semi-open.  Basically they have _some _holes poked in the grills, but less than an "open" headphone does. 
   
  I think part of "semi-open" is actual sound design, but part of it is just a marketing term to make you think your getting the best of open and closed in the same headphone.
    
   
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> Yeah, just asking if you would still choose the same amp if you had to start over.


 
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *genclaymore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I know you was asking chicolom but If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't had got the Matrix M-Stage . I would had actually got the NFB-12 that I have now then like I wanted. As I was close to getting one before the I got the M-stage but at the time was short on shipping when I was trying to get it from another user on this forum.


 
   
   
  Keep in mind, I built my setup _around _the Q701s, and I'd read only positive impressions on pairing the M-stage with the x70x.  It was the go-to recommendation for x70x amps in that price range.  I'd also read around and gotten the consensus that _in general _stand-alone DACs performed a bit better than integrated setups, so I was mainly looking at pure desktop amps. 
   
  I was also intrigued by op-amp rolling in the M-stage.  Reading the threads I got impression that you could make the amp warm or cold, increase the soundstage, change the detail, etc. all by changing the op-amp. 
  In reality, it's a waste of time IMO.  I can't tell the difference between any of them.  Don't bother with this.
   
  I was seriously considering the Audio GD gear when I was shopping for amps, but none of them took analog inputs.  That includes the NFB 12.  That meant I couldn't pair any of them with my mixamp.  I didn't want to spend $250+ on a box and not be able to use it with all of my gear, so I crossed them off my list.  I was also a bit wary of how ridiculous the signal path looks when you open up the lid on some of the audio GD's (some people say shorter path is better).
   
  I don't know if any of the current Audio-GD gear takes analog inputs.  Pretty sure MLE has said his doesn't...
   
   
  The O2 wasn't out yet when I was shopping for amps.  I'm guessing I would be fine with the O2 sonically, but I hate the physical design.  It's trying to be half portable and half desktop amp, but all the plugs are on the front faceplate.  That really bothers me - the power cord should always be on the back of an amp IMO.   I'm really hoping the ODA if/when it comes out has the in-out plugs designed like a normal desktop amp.
   


Spoiler: Some%20other%20amps%20I%20considered



[size=11.0pt] E9,  Lovely Cube, Sheer Audio HA-006+, Heed CanAmp, Schiit Lyr & Asgard, Burson amps, Violectric amps[/size]


   
   
  So yes, if I had to start over, I still think the M-stage is a good choice, for a _standalone desktop amp_.  The O2 is probably also solid, but like I said I hate the design of it - I still have hope for the ODA though.  The E9k is solid and oh-so cheap.  I still wouldn't consider audio GD's unless they take analog inputs. 
   
  A lot of headphones probably don't need this much amp, and you can get by with smaller/cheaper setups.  My E10 is great and I use it all the time.  However, the Q701 is one headphone that deserves to have a desktop amp IMO.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I was also intrigued by op-amp rolling in the M-stage.  Reading the threads I got impression that you could make the amp warm or cold, increase the sound stage, change the detail, etc. all by changing the op-amp.
> In reality, it's a waste of time IMO.  I can't tell the difference between any of them.  Don't bother with this.


 
   
  When I rolled op-amps in The M-Stage as well the Fiio E9 I had before including the many sound cards I had prior that also  had op-amp sockets. I rolled many op-amps and it was easy for me to tell the differences of them. Because ones like LT1364's LT1213ACN8 and OPA2111AM just to name few sound nothing like each other and had different sound signatures. I know it isn't placebo as i seen quiet a few of people usually say when I mention about rolling op-amps. But  than each person ears are different as what one person doesn't hear another one does.  Because I can't stand the way the OPA2134 sound with it sound signature that both Fiio E9 and Matrix M-Stage used.And I can easy spot it being used as it bothers me that much with the way it does to the sound stage and the mids that I don't like.  Plus I couldn't enjoy the E9 or the M-Stage til I take that OPA2134 out and place something else in it spot. LT1364 like I mention which i used for the AKG K702 I had, LT1124ACN8 that I used with the DT880 pro-250 as well.
   
  I usually spend a good week listening to a op-amp before I change it, or in this case Digital Fliter setting on the NFB-12. I have good memory how things sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't believe in op amp BS myself. Having heard the stock op amp vs the MOON op amp (which gives a tube like sound) and ACSS... the differences were so slight, it was not worth thinking any more about it. 

Chico, you'd want something like the C-2.2 as far as Audio-GD amps go. Its a pure amp with analog inputs, but it also costs more than the NFB5.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote:  





> Well geez, the HD700 are supposed to be most of the way to the HD800, open, great soundstage, so even without hearing them, if you can get them at a steal, they'll greatly outperform Astros or the other headphones you originally considered when you first got here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well, I always forget to mention I am looking for immersive gameplay and not competitive. I also listen to plenty of music. I know these headphones are hugely different. I am considering them as stable mates. I heard them both today in a fairly noisy shop. I liked both. The W1000X had fairly exciting bass. I felt happy with the mids and most of the bass on the HD700s, but I am reading many complaints about their upper register. Hmmmm... I want to compare the Q701 to the HD700, as the Q701 has been recommended seriously.


----------



## I95North

Oh well got a new recon usb 3d yesterday but did not have time to try it out until now. I'd have to say it seemed to work out ok for some time but when i pressed scout mode the varying up and down volume " pumping or surging action " started even with this new recon i received. The only game i play  is MW3 xbox360 multiplayer. It seems that scout mode and thx have some sort of volume altering/compression scheme going on within the device when either mode is active??. 
   
   It also seems that when i don't use either mode the varying volume syndrome is reduced but still present ever so slightly. I assume that neither mode is active when neither the THX light or the RECON light is lit up on the device?..
   
   Very strange phenomenon i seem to hear maybe its all in my head but this is my second unit and they both exhibit the same symptoms.. Oh well i will try out battle field 3 and ghost recon future soldier and see how the recon does.. Maybe the recon just does not like MW3 on my xbox360 console?? .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing likes MW3, including the Mixamp.


----------



## Calikeane

Wow. This thread is impressive.

 At first I was a little scared for my recent headphone purchase when I read your recommendations and did not see my cans listed! I looked down to your specific review and saw that, thank god, you gave it a glowing review, like I was under the impression it was capable of. I love my HD598s for music and looks, but I bought them for gaming. I have not gotten my new computer, therefore I haven't tried them yet.

 Any particular reason why they don't qualify as a top recommendation? Is it the comfort issue?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





calikeane said:


> Any particular reason why they don't qualify as a top recommendation? Is it the comfort issue?


 
   
  The 598? It is a top recommendation--for competitive. MLE can't place it in "Fun" since it's not very bassy, which naturally precludes it from making the "All-rounder" list too. Comfort didn't seem to factor too heavily into his rating scale; it was just a sidenote about his experience with the fit, but fit is very subjective anyway.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> Oh well got a new recon usb 3d yesterday but did not have time to try it out until now. I'd have to say it seemed to work out ok for some time but when i pressed scout mode the varying up and down volume " pumping or surging action " started even with this new recon i received. The only game i play  is MW3 xbox360 multiplayer. It seems that scout mode and thx have some sort of volume altering/compression scheme going on within the device when either mode is active??.
> 
> It also seems that when i don't use either mode the varying volume syndrome is reduced but still present ever so slightly. I assume that neither mode is active when neither the THX light or the RECON light is lit up on the device?..
> 
> Very strange phenomenon i seem to hear maybe its all in my head but this is my second unit and they both exhibit the same symptoms.. Oh well i will try out battle field 3 and ghost recon future soldier and see how the recon does.. Maybe the recon just does not like MW3 on my xbox360 console?? .




Scout mode makes quiet sounds louder and loud sounds quieter. I would definitely say that mode isn't for everyone, but I liked it when I played with the volume low. Most of the time, stick to THX.

You either enable scout mode OR thx. Can't do both simultaneously, activating one switches off the other.

Rear positioning cues aren't going to play as loudly as side or front cues. The rear cues are simulated by (i think) a touch of occlusion, a touch less volume, and a bit of delay on the far ear if the sound isn't exactly rear-center (6 o'clock). You may be one of the unfortunate who can't experience the effects as 3D sound, but I think that case is rare.

I've never played ghost recon since the first one on the original Xbox, but BF3 and MW3 aren't the best examples of Positonal sound. BF3 does have some nice environment-fitting sound effects though, and good quality noises, it's just hard to hear the angle bullets came from.

I'm gonna play with the affects from software tweaks till I get tired now


----------



## Evshrug

eric_c said:


> The 598? It is a top recommendation--for competitive. MLE can't place it in "Fun" since it's not very bassy, which naturally precludes it from making the "All-rounder" list too. Comfort didn't seem to factor too heavily into his rating scale; it was just a sidenote about his experience with the fit, but fit is very subjective anyway.




Yeah, I think MLE mentions headphones in his guide that are all really good, or will clearly give the overall impression that something is poor if it is poor. I also got the impression that he HD598 was "a" top recommendation, though he has also experienced some that edge out areas of better performance. Keep in mind his favorite headphone (minus the pleather pad discomfort) are considered $1k headphones!


----------



## Eric_C

Ya, agreed. 
   
  And ruling out the need for isolation, I think the best picks from this thread for both comfort and sound would be:
  AD 700
  HD 598
  PC 360
  Q701
  HE-400
   
  The AD 700 and HE 400 are outliers on comfort for different reasons (one is loose, one is heavy), but also excel at slightly different things: 700 for competitive, and 400 for fun/overall.
   
  Q701 also looks like a strong contender for all-round. Vs the HE-400, it looks like a good pick depending on bass priorities.
   
  And 598 vs PC 360 probably comes down mainly to aesthetics and whether you want a mic permanently attached to the headphone...


----------



## chicolom

Regardless of whether you like the HD598's signature or think it is fun/immersive or not, it has one of the top soundstages out there.  I think that's why it's high on the list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598 has a clearer, detail oriented sound over the PC360 which is more balanced, but not as detailed. I don't find either to have enough bass for me to truly consider them neutral in that aspect.

I didn't reaslly enjoy the PC360 or HD598 for music, while I enjoyed the Q701.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nothing likes MW3, including the Mixamp.


 
  Ok i also just found my blops cd i'll  try that out.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Scout mode makes quiet sounds louder and loud sounds quieter. I would definitely say that mode isn't for everyone, but I liked it when I played with the volume low. Most of the time, stick to THX.
> You either enable scout mode OR thx. Can't do both simultaneously, activating one switches off the other.
> Rear positioning cues aren't going to play as loudly as side or front cues. The rear cues are simulated by (i think) a touch of occlusion, a touch less volume, and a bit of delay on the far ear if the sound isn't exactly rear-center (6 o'clock). You may be one of the unfortunate who can't experience the effects as 3D sound, but I think that case is rare.
> I've never played ghost recon since the first one on the original Xbox, but BF3 and MW3 aren't the best examples of Positonal sound. BF3 does have some nice environment-fitting sound effects though, and good quality noises, it's just hard to hear the angle bullets came from.
> I'm gonna play with the affects from software tweaks till I get tired now


 
  When your done with your tweaks in THX mode let me know how you  have your settings set i'm curious to know what your settings are set to if you don't mind you could pm me to let me know??. I also like the fact that you can save custom tweaking settings exporting and importing them thats a plus for me...


----------



## Eric_C

FWIW, I have been enjoying the HE-400 for the last 1 week for music and "pseudo" Dolby Headphone (because my PC's soundcard doesn't do 5.1, and I haven't been FPS-ing on my Xbox).
  It's neutral enough for most music and games until the bass kicks in. Then the headphone kicks you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> It's neutral enough for most music and games until the bass kicks in. Then the headphone kicks you.




I love this quote. XD

The HE400 is what I consider the most well rounded can I've ever owned. I did call it the PC360 on steroids. However, that bass can and will hit fantastically if something asks for it. It will be nice and balanced 90% of the time, but put something bassy and OMGYES. Not DT990 or Pro 900 bass, but a very satisfying amount the vast majority of the time.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> Ok i also just found my blops cd i'll  try that out.
> When your done with your tweaks in THX mode let me know how you  have your settings set i'm curious to know what your settings are set to if you don't mind you could pm me to let me know??. I also like the fact that you can save custom tweaking settings exporting and importing them thats a plus for me...




Aw MAN you guys! Surround effect maxed out is sooooooo much better!
So, I reset the Recon3D to default... I don't know how you said it was 75% of Mixamp, I couldn't really feel an immersive 3D effect very clearly at all. It's like the rear speakers are removed... Almost exactly like what the graphic shows when you have the slider lower. When you turn up the Surround effect, it REALLY makes A Big, NOT KIDDING YOU, difference. Right now I have turned it back to default to retest my findings (and volume was automatically turned down by the way, weird), and so I can have an edit jump point. Tweaking back...

Note: even when switched to PC mode, I had to unplug the optical cable leading to my Xbox to get into the settings software. Dunno if the optical port has to be always unplugged to access settings, but unplugging made it work for me.

Maxed surround: yeah, it's better. Good - Not as good as what I had discovered upon first tweak before resetting to defaults, but I'll get to that once I verify I had it "optimized" as best I can tell.

Crystalizer (compressed audio restoration) doesn't seem to help high-quality audio. I turned it off and soundstage improved (like another step from maxing surround), the Crystalizer seemed to create the harsh trebles I was hearing before while also smoothing out minute cues that expand the soundstage. Seems logical to me. Turning it low seems to help, but I'm liking it best turned off. Maybe this would be good with MP3's (as it's designed for), but in gaming, just uncheck it.

So that's where I started from, basically everything off except Surround, which is maxed. Let's see if anything else is worth it's weight in Gaming...

Hmm, smart volume seems similar to Scout Mode. I think I'd prefer smart volume in the "night" setting over scout mode if running a late night marathon, but generally it crushes the sound field together and I'd pass for max quality. Definitely made menus wonky and background music... wrong.

Dialogue Plus: Actually, I had this on before defaulting and tweaking, as I tend to like a little help making out voices sometimes. Doesn't seem to hurt immersion much, but maybe the audio was slightly better without the effect? Hard to tell really, if you think it's a benefit try it for yourself.

Lastly, bass... Actually, I'm kinda feeling the ambiance created, just by turning... Ooh yeah this is fun  Where was I? Did I mention I'm listening while typing? Lol. But yeah, turning the bass setting "on" at the default position adds to the ambiance and SLAMMM! The body from this eez fun ^___^

Ok, so the graphic equalizer settings only seems to apply when in PC mode, at least the last tab "advanced settings" is only for importing or exporting device settings you would use in console mode, and doing the export pretty explicitly lists only the features from tab 1, THX TruStudio Pro mode.

Tested with my Q701 plugged directly into the Recon3D, playing "The Deal" cinematic from Starcraft 2 in full, each time I made a tweak. I listened for rear sounds (the fluid wires snapping off and waving behind you off screen was cool, also violins during title screen seem to come from behind) Starcraft2 is set to Recon3D as output device, speaker setup Surround (not 5.1 or 7.1), reverb is checked (taste thing), sound quality high. Live in-game surround testing will have to wait, too tired now.

My final and recommended settings, today, are with volume 1 notch lower than max (louder than I usually like, but where I expect y'all do ) THX mode on, Surround checked and maxed, Crystalizer off, Bass checked at default values, Smart Volume off, Dialogue Plus on at default (just kinda left it on, maybe it helps to keep balanced with Bass?). The Q701 scaled well with a little EQ, we'll see of I still like the bass on (or at a lower crossover point so only lowest bass is emphasized) once I play an FPS.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I love this quote. XD
> The HE400 is what I consider the most well rounded can I've ever owned. I did call it the PC360 on steroids. However, that bass can and will hit fantastically if something asks for it. It will be nice and balanced 90% of the time, but put something bassy and OMGYES. Not DT990 or Pro 900 bass, but a very satisfying amount the vast majority of the time.


 
   
  -bows-
   
  I think if a person finds the bass on a HE-400 insufficient, he/she should just game with a Sony XB. And not bother with any MixAmp or equivalent. And downres all music to 320 kbps max. And sell all amps.


----------



## illbleed

these were just emailed to me lol. what you guys think? they look hideous. 
   
http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/slyr-black-yellow?icid=215


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think they look sorta cool. Not sure about the inner yellow, but still one of SK's better designs. However, that price leads me to believe it's probably not good.

I no longer look at SK with disgust (they've changed from just selling utter crap), but I'm still iffy about headsets in general.


----------



## Fa11ou7

I had some thoughts while reading through the last few pages.
   
  If there isn't a list already, you head-fiers that have more experience testing out equipment and games should make a list of games that work well with DH or various types of surround. And maybe a list of games that don't work well with surround, that way people that come to this thread would have a nice list to test out their equipment. 
   
  When I first started reading this thread I just assumed that you pick a surround device, plug in the heaset if it comes with one or use your audiophile cans of choice, start a game and play. Recently, there has been a lot of talk about tweaking settings (ie. Recon 3d). My PX5 let me tweak settings to the wireless headphones that came with it but there aren't really any settings if I'm using a nice wired set. My question is which way are you guys leaning? would you prefer the plug and play surround devices or the tweakable devices (if they are a viable alternative)?


----------



## Evshrug

fa11ou7 said:


> I had some thoughts while reading through the last few pages.
> 
> If there isn't a list already, you head-fiers that have more experience testing out equipment and games should make a list of games that work well with DH or various types of surround. And maybe a list of games that don't work well with surround, that way people that come to this thread would have a nice list to test out their equipment.
> 
> When I first started reading this thread I just assumed that you pick a surround device, plug in the heaset if it comes with one or use your audiophile cans of choice, start a game and play. Recently, there has been a lot of talk about tweaking settings (ie. Recon 3d). My PX5 let me tweak settings to the wireless headphones that came with it but there aren't really any settings if I'm using a nice wired set. My question is which way are you guys leaning? would you prefer the plug and play surround devices or the tweakable devices (if they are a viable alternative)?




Well, my problem is I haven't heard a Mixamp, lol. So I don't know how my adjustments compare to the stock Mixamp (since I ended up happiest gaming with most of the special settings off, except for surround maxed and stock Clear Voice), but if the Mixamp sounds close to the DSS2...

I don't have every game, but the general consensus is First Person games have the most developed and precise audio. In the end, I'd say just play with games you like. I think, of the games I have, the surround _effect_ is most distinct in Halo: Reach, with Oblivion in close 2nd (Fallout 3 is Superior too!), others favor Call of Duty: Black Ops or CoD4, or on the computer the Thief series, Battlefield 2, and the Dirt racing games are supposed to be exemplary, but as much as I love audio I still find other elements to be more important to a really great game.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Is anyone else here going to be playing Borderlands 2? I pre-ordered mine and will be throwing all my free time at it come Tues. Does anyone know if the first one worked with DH? I really hope that 2 has a good DH presence.


----------



## Evshrug

fa11ou7 said:


> Is anyone else here going to be playing Borderlands 2? I pre-ordered mine and will be throwing all my free time at it come Tues. Does anyone know if the first one worked with DH? I really hope that 2 has a good DH presence.




Any game with surround sound works with DH, just some are better.

I played the first borderlands on 360, before I had surround. I'd like to play the sequel but without Xbox live at the moment I'm waiting to pick the game up. Loved the first one overall.


----------



## Fa11ou7

I have the first one but I have never really been able to get overly excited about. My biggest problem with the first one was trying to figure out which zone I was support to go to and where to turn in quests once I completed them, maybe I was missing something. I have heard that playing with friends really opened the game up and made it 100x better. This time, I think I have my wife talked into playing with me as well as a close friend of mine and his girlfriend (she actually pre-ordered it because she loved the first so much 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
   
  About DH - I don't really remember reading anywhere about software setup for DH. I think I have seen you guys say to turn 5.1 surround on for the Xbox and that's all you have to do right? What about the PC? I'm just using the onbard sound but it is optical out - 7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec) , Premium Blu-ray audio support. (I know this thread isn't for PC so if you don't know just ignore this PC part)


----------



## illbleed

gotcha, ive had to many pairs of SK to lead me to believe anything they release just isnt worth even looking into.


----------



## illbleed

If you could change the midbass for the dt990 Pros, what would your score be for competative?
  these seem like the best option, and theyre cheaper than the other ones i wanted (q701 and pc360). 
  The bass will not be a problem for me. Im trying to get as much accuracy in directionality as possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation Plus members get Borderlands for free! Downloaded it, and still don't care about it at all. I don't like open world, fetch questy games like this. Just like I don't like Fallout 3, Rage, etc. Borderlands was fine with DH. Not great, but fine.

As for 990 Pros, they'd probably get an 8 or 8.5 if it didn't have all that bass.


----------



## ATLRoach

Quote: 





fa11ou7 said:


> Is anyone else here going to be playing Borderlands 2? I pre-ordered mine and will be throwing all my free time at it come Tues. Does anyone know if the first one worked with DH? I really hope that 2 has a good DH presence.


 
   
  I have a free voucher that came with my GTX680 and may download it. I'm not to big on big open world gameplay.


----------



## crzycuyler

Quote: 





atlroach said:


> I have a free voucher that came with my GTX680 and may download it. I'm not to big on big open world gameplay.


 
  I'm thinking about getting the GTX680! It looks sick! Though my main game will be games like Skyrim with everything I can throw at it.


----------



## Burns11

The GTX 680 is really not worth the extra $100+ considering the extremely modest performance gains.


----------



## I95North

Well after alot of testing the recon3D usb out i would have to say its does work quite well and  if someone were to pick it over lets say dss2 or the astro mixamp i can't personaly say its far better or far worse than probably those or any other DH product.. I think it comes down to personal opinion and what your ears tell you is best..
   
  My problem with the recon was that i thought it had issues at first only because i only play MW3 on xbox 360 console since jan this year...30 days playing time and i know i play it way too much "no life after work lol".
   
   My issue again was the ingame volume for me kept going lower making audible footsteps of enemies confusing at times to locate in mw3 until it was too late to react but then at other times it was fine. I kept experiencing lowering volume then it taking forever to go from the low volume state to normal again or some sort of pumping action or compresion slow to normalize.. 
   
  Now i realize also it happens  in the game chat lobby that the volume fluctuates up n down in SCOUT mode and THX and ever so slightly when both modes are deactivated.
   
  @ MLE he's right MW3 does suck at postional audio cues but somehow the recon for me  does not work with mw3 at ALL. 
   
  However i  did try ghost recon, blops, midnight club and a few movies on the recon and i'd have to say its no sloutch even though i thought in the beginning it was just another DH product which is to say the least, but its just very CUSTOMIZABLE..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nevermind...


----------



## iamdacow

Hmm with so many gamers on head fi, we should have like a BF3 head fi platoon or a COD clan haha, or does one exist already?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think so. We all play on varying consoles/PCs, so it's hard to have some form of structure, though I feel the Gamertag/Username/Friend code thread should be sticky-ed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Nevermind.


----------



## Tatek

Hi!
   
  Are there any possible good considerations for wireless headphones with mic for DH games ?
   
  thanks in advance 
   
  Marcin


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





tatek said:


> Hi!
> 
> Are there any possible good considerations for wireless headphones with mic for DH games ?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Find yourself a used Mixamp 5.8 and get the PC360. Any other system will either be trash or just be so locked down (in terms of options and upgrades) that it won't be worth the $200-$400 spent on them.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Looks like there's another Dolby Headphone processor I didn't know about before: the Audio-Technica DWL3300.
   
  At $500, it's a pretty expensive piece of kit, although still half the price of the Beyerdynamic Headzone (and a sixth of the Smyth Realiser A8's price).
   
  The important thing is that it can decode DTS and apparently also works with any headphone you want, though it's bundled with an IEM by default.
   
  Can someone out there review this thing already?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For that price, I'd buy a Harmin Kardon receiver with speakers and a pair of headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Oh, right. Almost forgot that you can easily buy a Harmon Kardon AVR 354 for that much.
   
  I just tend to forget about A/V receivers sometimes because of the sheer weight and bulk. You already know how I keep this big 1980s receiver on my desk solely as a critical component of my headphone setup, at least while I'm trying to get a proper Stax amp.
   
  (As an aside, have you installed Swapnote on your 3DS yet?)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Looks like there's another Dolby Headphone processor I didn't know about before: the Audio-Technica DWL3300.
> 
> At $500, it's a pretty expensive piece of kit, although still half the price of the Beyerdynamic Headzone (and a sixth of the Smyth Realiser A8's price).
> 
> ...


 
   
  So you have to plug your headphones into the remote for it to work.  The remote IS the amplifier.  Why the heck is the transmitter so huge then!  I want _that _to be the amplifier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

EVShrug, do you lik the Crystalizer on or off? I'm about to test it maxed out (compared to 65% in default, and fully off).

Testing the surround maxed, still doesn't compare to DH. I'm jumping directly from the Mixamp 5.8 to the Recon 3D (I have the Recon plugged in to the 5.8's optical bypass out, so it's easy to just unplug my E17 from the Recon to the Mixamp's Rx unit).

The Mixamp's positioning is noticeably superior, especially rear positional cues. They reach further back, no question.

Still the Recon is a pretty decent device. I just don't like that it's still has a distorted treble range. No matter what I do, menus fx like clicking on folders in Windows, or scrolling the XMB sounds grainy and processed.

Ironically, while playing games, the Recon has a non-processed sound. 

If I give the positioning/soundstage on the Mixamp a 9 overall, the Recon gets a 7.5. The Recon's soundstage is pretty good to the sides and front, but not AS great on the back. I couldn't tell as I was playing until I plugged in the Mixamp, and was like 'whoa'. If the Mixamp's rear cues sound 6 feet from you, the Recon's sounds 2 feet away. However, you can still tell they're behind you, which is a good thing.

To those who own the Recon, positioning is fine. You will be immersed in games, and be able to tell where sounds are coming from. No worries there. The sound just isn't as spacious as Dolby Headphone.

*edit: The crystalizer bumped up clarity like an EQ, but it made the soundstage smaller, and hurt positioning. I'd turn it off. I'd only use if paired up with overly smooth headphones in the treble range.

No matter what I do, the panning is still not as accurate as Dolby headphone. It pans very slowly at certain angles, then it jumps waaaay too quickly with any slight movement. Like say from 12 to 1 is fine, but then it jumps from 1 to 3 too quickly.*


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, never turn Crystallizer on while gaming, actually never use it. In HRTF models it hurts the frequency curve and ruins the whole concept. 
   
  What do you guys consider the best unamped headphone for Mixamp gaming? The T90s are too expensive to use as a Mixamp model only (sold them anyway), else they'd be the first choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD598/PC360/AD700 would be the holy trinity of competitive unamped gaming.

For fun, I'd say the D7000/Pro 900/DT990 32 ohm

This is when using the Mixamp only. The DT990/HD598 would benefit more than the rest from amping, but they sound damn good off the Mixamp alone for gaming.

If using a mic, I'd scratch off the 990s and HD598 as they can be insensitive when the Mixamp is performing double duty.



*Oh yes, so the closest comparison I have for the Recon 3D's positioning is the SU-DH1 in DH1 mode (the smallest room size). The Recon's soundstage width is larger, but rear positioning depth is similar, and the SU-DH1's audio cue is easier to discern.

Actually, the Mixamp 5.8 has better depth than the SU-DH1 on DH2 mode. Again, I'm certain it's due to the amplification difference.*

I'm gonna get started on the little reviews of the units soon enough. I feel I have used them enough.

*Edit. First post updated with the Recond3D and SU-DH1*


----------



## illbleed

whats the difference between using a mixamp on the pc and without it? 
  cause my headset phones the same (a40). but thats cuse a40 headset is balls :/.
  Also, would i need to leave off the virtual surround setting on my computer if i plug in my mixamp to pc?


----------



## Phos

Your computer would need Dolby Digital Live encoding over optical for it to work on PC.  
   
  Also something I feel I should point out: It's my understanding that the Wii U will not have optical out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Who the hell thought that was a smart idea? 




Well...the only way to get Dolby Digital through it is to buy one of those Monoprice HDMI switchers that have an optical out, and plug that to the Mixamp/etc. That or receivers with optical outs (assuming they are bypass out and not converted to PCM).

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

As if the Wii U wasn't already expensive enough. :rolleyes:


----------



## NamelessPFG

The Wii U doesn't have S/PDIF output after all? *Damn it!*
   
  If the games transmit their audio as 8-channel PCM over HDMI, then it's not like they can just downconvert it to Dolby Digital or DTS whenever it hits an S/PDIF passthrough. This could be bad for all of us without the money for a Smyth Realiser A8.
   
  I really hope that the Wii U works with HDMI-equipped capture cards without any HDCP crap getting in the way of things so that I could get some semblance of surround by using CMSS-3D Headphone on my PC. (And I could even record my gameplay, on top of that!)


----------



## Phos

Can't an H/R receiver turn 8 channel PCM to dolby headphone?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





phos said:


> Can't an H/R receiver turn 8 channel PCM to Dolby headphone?


 
  Depends on the receiver, I like Yamaha because they all come with Silent Cinema, Yamahas own in house (non-Dolby) headphone surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's not what he means. He means if there is a receiver that converts a PCM signal into PROPER Dolby Headphone, meaning the PCM signals needs to be converted to Dolby Digital first.

You can send a multi channel PCM signal to a DH device like the Mixamp, but it won't convert to DH properly. It will downconvert to stereo PCM, and just be a wrongly processed stereo signal.


----------



## NamelessPFG

If I had the funds for one of the Harmon Kardon AVR 254/354 receivers (which support Dolby Headphone and have plenty of HDMI inputs), then this wouldn't be a problem.
   
  Problem is, they're a bit on the expensive side, not to mention quite heavy and bulky for something I'd only be using headphones on, and I obviously can't afford them right now. (And the speaker amp part does me no good considering that it's not going to output DH-processed audio over the front left/right channels, meaning no DH for my Stax.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so I'm play the Resident Evil 6 demo, great positional audio so far. Like REALLY good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's out? :O Need to test asap. 
   
  nvm, it's too early in Europe right now.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ok, so I'm play the Resident Evil 6 demo, great positional audio so far. Like REALLY good.


 
   
  Dangit, my account xbox account just went silver and Micro$oft won't let me download any demos.
   
  I like the MT framework engine though.  Dead rising 1/2 had good positional audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Dangit, my account xbox account just went silver and Micro$oft won't let me download any demos.
> 
> I like the MT framework engine though.  Dead rising 1/2 had good positional audio.




Yeah, it's a very good looking game. What's funny, is that I've only played through ONE RE game (Code Veronica back in the Dreamcast gdays). I couldn't stand the tank control scheme. It's a shame, because i absolutely LOVE to watch it (saw a friend play through RE2).

I was so glad when RE4 came out and changed the control scheme to something more logical. For some reason, I still couldn't play RE5. Something about the controls didn't feel right.

RE6's controls didn't feel perfect. Still something I can't quite get completely. :rolleyes:

I do think it's gonna be the first RE game I will play fully in over ten years.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's a very good looking game. What's funny, is that I've only played through ONE RE game (Code Veronica back in the Dreamcast gdays). I couldn't stand the tank control scheme. It's a shame, because i absolutely LOVE to watch it (saw a friend play through RE2).
> I was so glad when RE4 came out and changed the control scheme to something more logical. For some reason, I still couldn't play RE5. Something about the controls didn't feel right.
> RE6's controls didn't feel perfect. Still something I can't quite get completely.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I thought RE5 controls felt similar to RE4.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  They were a bit faster/tighter in RE5 I think.
   
  I'm pretty sure the controls are unresponsive on purpose to make up for the fact that the enemies are usually pretty slow and usually have to come in for melee attacks on you. 
   
  RE games are more like action blockbusters now then survival horror, but I still love them.  If you want survival horror, look at a different franchise - or better yet some PC games.  RE5 was awesome - as an action/co-op game.  I love Capcom's campy dialogue and cutscenes.  The RE games have very high production values.
   
   
  And does anyone else love when games use a _real _orchestra for the soundtrack?  I do


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I couldnt play RE4 either, lol. I love real orchestrated music!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I couldnt play RE4 either, lol. I love real orchestrated music!


 
   
  You should play them.  It takes a while to get used to the controls, but it's worth it.


----------



## Eric_C

+1 on RE5 controls. It's a love/hate relationship, but once you get the hang of it the payoff in co-op is sweet. Both in campaign and in mercenaries mode.
   
  On the topic of RE6:
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/14/conan-reviews-the-resident-evil-6-demo/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lol'd. I love Conan. XD

I forgot I went to sleep before doing Jake's demo.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> On the topic of RE6:
> http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/14/conan-reviews-the-resident-evil-6-demo/


 
   
  LOL, I saw that.  I love Conan, and his reviews are especially funny because he know absolutely _nothing _about gaming.
   
  More @  http://teamcoco.com/cluelessgamer


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Here's what mine looks like.  I prefer having boom mics on the left. If you put it on the right there would be a lot more room since there's no cable.


 
  That's what mine look like. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   


heretic817 said:


> Nice job MLE!!! A soon as I logged on I was like "wow that looks a lot cleaner". and thanks for the Q701 include as well.
> I just got my Q701's delivered to work so I have yet to try them. It sounds like my Astro Mixamp should do fine to drive them but now I am likely going to have to do something to use them with my PC. I take it I will need some amplification over my X-fi Extreme Gamer card which has no dedicated headphone amp.
> 
> Well, I guess I will try them out on bothe PS3 and PC tonight and see how it goes. Thanks again MLE and Chicolom for all your help.


 
  If you are still looking for an amp I use the Objective 2 (O2) and it sounds amazing with the AKG Q701.
   
   
  Anyone know any decent closed back headphones for a good immersive play feelings? 
   
  DT 770s, Pro700 MK2, Ultrasone 750s, Denon 2000, AKG K550, etc.? Can anyone recommend any of these?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd go with the DT770 pro 80 if you like bass and can't afford the Pro 900. Best positioning I've heard on ANY headphone. It's a really immersive headphone.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote: 





iamdacow said:


> Hmm with so many gamers on head fi, we should have like a BF3 head fi platoon or a COD clan haha, or does one exist already?


 
  Not sure, feel free to add me in Origin or Steam, "Jodiuh." I'm playing Borderlands 2 now though...
   
  Quote:  





> And does anyone else love when games use a _real _orchestra for the soundtrack?  I do


 
  I LOVE THAT!!!
   
  Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *NinjaSushi2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Anyone know any decent closed back headphones for a good immersive play feelings?
> 
> DT 770s, Pro700 MK2, Ultrasone 750s, Denon 2000, AKG K550, etc.? Can anyone recommend any of these?


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd go with the DT770 pro 80 if you like bass and can't afford the Pro 900. Best positioning I've heard on ANY headphone. It's a really immersive headphone.


 
  That's Ultrasone, right MLE? How do you feel about Shure 940's or ATH-A900X's? My 770 Pro's bit the dust, I've tried 880's, but I'm looking for something that can double as a fun music phone too. I really like the KRK KNS-8400's, but I'm just thinking for the near future.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> EVShrug, do you lik the Crystalizer on or off? I'm about to test it maxed out (compared to 65% in default, and fully off).




Hey, I've been away for a bit.
And I definitely prefer Crystalizer off. I thought I went detailed enough into my tweak-testing paragraph on Crystalizer... I figured somebody may randomly come across it. Google is a funny thing.

I've kinda moved on from worrying about headphones and processors... and on to amps. LoL, I never pick on smokers for their habit because I know I'm developing an expensive habit myself! As much as solid state amps are reliable and easier to be free of distortion, hybrid tube amps sound like a lot of fun to switch out tubes for different sound signatures.

I managed to stave off a purchase for now (this week?) by buying something else I've wanted since picking up my graphics card in Feburary... a passive cooling heatsink! When I first built the computer, using just the integrated Sandy Bridge HD3000 GPU and a solid state harddrive, I was impressed with how whisper quiet my system was. Oh, I also had two case fans, but they are large, low-rpm fans that can't be heard above the stock CPU cooler. Barebones but oozed quality. Now the NVidia GTS250 fan has a high-pitched vreee that bugs me, plus the 140 thermal-watt cooling performance of the Arctic Silver heatsink I'm getting (with another big, quiet case fan mounted to draw heat off of the GPU) is _just_ enough to cool an eventual GTX 660 upgrade.

But this isn't computer-fi! I truly do believe a nice amp will compliment my AKG Q701 and improve the Recon3D's output. If and when I do get one (my car wasn't totaled by transmission failure, just needed fresh fluid, yay!), I will share any relevant discoveries


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I thought RE5 controls felt similar to RE4.     They were a bit faster/tighter in RE5 I think. *snip* I love Capcom's campy dialogue and cutscenes.  The RE games have very high production values.
> 
> And does anyone else love when games use a _real_ orchestra for the soundtrack?  I do




I do I do! It's amazing what a quality step-up the real orchestral tracks in Halo 2 were over the synthesized stuff in Halo 1. It's also very clear on some tracks that Marty still used some synths in all the Halo games... In sci-fi I can understand the otherworldly sounds that don't come from nature (usually), but Star Wars and 2001: A Space Odessy before that set the standard for pairing futuristic sci-fi and the grounded power of classical orchestration. Of course orchestral is very good with horror and fantasy genres as well. I don't think, say, Hip-Hop can slip into our subconsious and build tension like a good orchestral composition. Real performers and instruments just heighten the immersion.

And if I can get used to RE4 iPad and iPod controls, anyone can get used to console versions.


----------



## AndrewU

The DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm caught my eye and I was wondering if these could be fully driven by the MixAmp Pro. If so, could the 250 Ohm versions be driven by the MixAmp Pro?


----------



## Evshrug

Oooooh man... Newegg has a sale on the Polk Audio CS2 for $80, very tempted to bite!


----------



## chicolom

Just realized something really obvious but still worth posting anyways:
   
  For games where turning on the Mixamp's bass boost causes excessive clipping a fix is to keep the bass boost ON but turn down the game volume digitally via the in-game menu while turning up the mixamp to compensate.  Should help lower the signal below clipping threshold.
   
   
  This also helps in some games where a radio/speaker/com dialogue comes on and makes dialogue clip a lot when Dolby Headphone is enabled (Half life does this, and some other ones too).  Not sure why Dolby Headphone makes in-game loudspeaker/com dialogue clip sometimes, but I think again lowering the in-game volume digitally alleviates some of that signal clipping and gives back some headroom.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

andrewu said:


> The DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm caught my eye and I was wondering if these could be fully driven by the MixAmp Pro. If so, could the 250 Ohm versions be driven by the MixAmp Pro?




No and no. The Pro 80 sounds ok with the Mixamp alone, and is the best for this compared to the Premiums, but they still want at least a portable amp.

Don't bother with the 250ohm if you want to drive it properly. You need a desktop amp.

You're doing yourself a disservice if you settle for the Mixamp alone on the 250ohms. The E9/E09K would definitely be powerful enough for the 250ohm.

The Mixamp can drive the 250ohm loud, but not WELL.


----------



## illbleed

I didnt know the q701 has a mic ? does it come with it or do you have to buy it separately? 
  I was about ready to order the DT 990 pros when i noticed that in the picture above.
  Not sure which to go for now. Any help? I'll be using them for xbox live using my astro mixamp and for gaming on the computer. Mostly CoD for competitive. at the moment with League of Legends till black ops 2 comes out. I own a lot of different games so i feel both would be very useful, but my most competitive usage would be for GameBatles on any call of duty. I do have enough for both. As i said a few pages back, anything that has far better sound & imaging/sound stage/ directionality than the a4o headset and ax720 will be great. sorry for posting the same stuff all the time, just want to make sure i get the right headphones lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, they don't have a mic. That's a modmic which you buy seperately.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> I didnt know the q701 has a mic ? does it come with it or do you have to buy it separately?


 
   
  I have the AKG Q701 MLG Pro Elite Limited XBOX G4MING Edition.  MSRP is $699 and they're extremely rare.
   
  I'd let them go for $500 if you want to buy them off me.


----------



## AndrewU

Would there be an 7.1 decoder/amp powerful enough to drive the pro80s well on it's own?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A Harmon Kardan receiver, and the Headzone. For the price of the Headzone, you can buy a receiver, an amp/dac, and better headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MY KSC-35 came in!

And they're NEW!

Better than spending $45 for a new pair. In the end it cost about $20 to get them repaired/fixed, though these are definitely new.

OMG, I missed that amazing tonality and airy sound! <3

My UE500 sounds... so meh now. :rolleyes:


----------



## jackyR

I was wondering if the  770 pro 80 is better than the cals for single player fun gaming headphone? I have a 598 for my fps gaming and love them for that. I find them lacking for games like Arkham City and Dead Space 2. I can get the cals for $100 and the pro 80 for $150. Also I just saw that the 990 pros are about $169 on Amazon. Would these be a better fit for the sound I'm looking for? If not is there enough of a difference in sound or comfort that I should go with the  770 pro 80 for $50 more than the cals? I would use the mix amp wired version no mic, and also my pc with a xonar u3 usb sound card. I am thinking about picking up a fiio e10 for my ipod and also for music listening on my pc, it wont be in the near future more like in 3 to 4 months. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just in case people would think of using the E10 with the Mixamp: The Fiio E10 is a USB dac/amp ONLY. It will not work without the USB connecting directly to the device you're using them on. That means it's to be mainly used for computers, and won't work with the Mixamp/etc..

The CAL and DT770 Pro 80 are similar for me, with the biggest difference being the DT770 has a harsher treble, and the CAL is warmer. The CAL has less bass bloat (but still quite bassy), is easier to drive (no amp needed). The 770 pro 80 needs an amp, has bigger soundstage, and better positioning (though for the purpose of fun gaming, the CALs are excellent at positioning anyways).

The DT770 Pro 80 with something like the E11 would put it over the top vs the CAL. Without an amp, the CAL is better, less muddy, and cheaper.

Comfort-wise, I find them both to be amazingly comfy, though the 770 pros get the extra point for velour pads.

The 990 Pro smokes the crap out of both, but they're open (which by the fact that you own the HD598, shouldn't be an issue), and they REQUIRE a desktop amp.

If you can spring for the 990 pros and a desktop amp like the E9/E09K, that is the BEST I've heard for fun gaming in that price range.


----------



## Darcris

Hi guys,
   
  Really quite new to these forums, I just have a few quick questions I'd like to ask about the settings / virtual surround sound through my Xonar DGX on my HD598's.

 1) What recommended settings would you use for DH 5.1 surround sound enabled games or such?
 2) I've noticed if I set them to 6 channel and put games in 5.1, it sounds as if things that are in front of me are behind me etc. What would the reason behind this be?

 I mainly just use my HD598's for games or my Z906's for music and movies. What would I need to set my EQ, virtual surround sound or Dolby Surround sound at to get the best performance out of both, or would I need two different profiles?


 Thanks in advanced,
 Chris


----------



## jackyR

Ok didn't realize that about the E10.  Sounds like I'll be getting the e11 then in the near future unless you can recommend me something else. As for the headphones I would have to get an E9K for the 990 pro and that is going to add about $60 more than the e11 and it's not portable. I think I'll probably go with the pro 80 since I am planning on getting a portable headphone amp anyway in about 3 or 4 months. It seems your opinion is that they a much better value for only $50 more. If I wasn't going to get the portable amp then I think from what you're saying is that they are close enough that spending an extra $100 wouldn't really be worth it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darcris said:


> Really quite new to these forums, I just have a few quick questions I'd like to ask about the settings / virtual surround sound through my Xonar DGX on my HD598's.
> 1) What recommended settings would you use for DH 5.1 surround sound enabled games or such?
> 2) I've noticed if I set them to 6 channel and put games in 5.1, it sounds as if things that are in front of me are behind me etc. What would the reason behind this be?
> I mainly just use my HD598's for games or my Z906's for music and movies. What would I need to set my EQ, virtual surround sound or Dolby Surround sound at to get the best performance out of both, or would I need two different profiles?


 
  5.1 audio and 6-channel really refers to the same thing, the ".1" denotes the subwoofer,
  If you were not using a sub-woofer and just six regular speakers, it would be 6.0 audio.
   
  How is the Z906 connected to the Xonar DG, if 3 analog (3.5nmm) cables, you might have the wires crossed.


----------



## Darcris

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> 5.1 audio and 6-channel really refers to the same thing, the ".1" denotes the subwoofer,
> If you were not using a sub-woofer and just six regular speakers, it would be 6.0 audio.
> 
> How is the Z906 connected to the Xonar DG, if 3 analog (3.5nmm) cables, you might have the wires crossed.


 
   

 I have the Z906's plugged in to the three 3.5mm ports at the back of the Xonar (green to green, black to black etc) I have to unplug the green on when I want to use my HD598's however, unless I use my Front Headphone In port, but I think that just looks messy. My issue is the HD598's missing sounds in games, if something is in front of me when DH and virtual 7.1 is active, it sounds as if it's behind me..


----------



## Eric_C

So all this gear talk is cool and all, but:
 BORDERLANDS 2 AND TORCHLIGHT 2 THIS WEEK. (actually, today for me.)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darcris said:


> I have the Z906's plugged in to the three 3.5mm ports at the back of the Xonar (green to green, black to black etc) I have to unplug the green on when I want to use my HD598's however, unless I use my Front Headphone In port, but I think that just looks messy. My issue is the HD598's missing sounds in games, if something is in front of me when DH and virtual 7.1 is active, it sounds as if it's behind me..


 
  Is the on-board audio turned off, in the bios?
  Try leaving Virtual 7.1 turned off (a guess).
  Have you tested with Dolby Headphone turned off?
  Try installing the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from the website Brainbit, just in case their is something funny in your current software install.
  Maybe someone else will offer better ideas.


----------



## Darcris

I'll try and turn the on-board audio off in the bios and reinstalling the drivers. The headset seems to work fine when it's on 2 channel with Dolby Surround and 7.1 active just not when I switch it to 6 channel. I think I understand now, 2 channel means 2 speakers (headphones) and 6 channels means 5.1 (5 speakers, 1 sub) . That would make sense that if I'm forcing my headset to emulate 6 speakers of course its going to get confused.

 Is there any significant benefit to installing the new drivers or are the ones that came with the card enough?
 Maybe they need updating!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





darcris said:


> I'll try and turn the on-board audio off in the bios and reinstalling the drivers. The headset seems to work fine when it's on 2 channel with Dolby Surround and 7.1 active just not when I switch it to 6 channel. I think I understand now, 2 channel means 2 speakers (headphones) and 6 channels means 5.1 (5 speakers, 1 sub) . That would make sense that if I'm forcing my headset to emulate 6 speakers of course its going to get confused.
> 
> Is there any significant benefit to installing the new drivers or are the ones that came with the card enough?
> Maybe they need updating!


 
  For surround sound (movies and gaming) for headphones, you want Audio channel set to "6-channel",
  And Analog Out set to "Headphone", "Dolby Virtual Headphones" does all the processing for headphone surround sound.
   
  Switch Audio Channel to 2-channel, for music.
   
  The Third party "Unifed Xonar Drivers" are said to be an improvement over stock Asus Xonar software.
  The Unified Xonar Drivers are usually the latest Asus software drivers (but with improvements).


----------



## qualm

So I have been looking for a wireless console gaming headset and ended up here.  I was wondering how everyone was gaming wirelessly with all of the wired headphone suggestions, but then I read to use the Mixamp 5.8 with a pair of wired headphones a couple of pages back.  Awesome thanks for the wealth of information here.  I was just wondering if there was other options to the Mixamp 5.8?  I did not even know that you could transmit your wired headphones wirelessly, now I am just trying to figure out all my options before I make a purchase.  I am so glad that I did not purchase a piece of junk wireless headset, just for it's wireless capabilities.
   
  Is the Mixamp 5.8 the way to go?
   
   
  Thanks for all information and suggestions.
   
  Qualm


----------



## Naingolann

Yep, get the wireless Mixamp and you're pretty much set. I don't think that there's any other options out there. Enjoy.


----------



## Itachi HM

Hi for all,
   
  I'm new here, from Brazil, and since I'm not a "pro" at audio, i like to spend my money on a good thing (if you want to buy something for $100, why don't buy something MUCH better for $150? - for example).
   
  I'm very interested on Dolby Headphone technology. I want to "start" on this world, because my situation:
   
  I stay at my family house at week, going to home only on weekends. In my house i have a (basic) Home Theater, a Xbox ,a Wii and a HTPC.
  So all the movies/series i want to watch on good screen size and with 5.1 audio. During the week i stay only with my notebook, and want to see some movies, but with TV sounds, is not possible (5.1 audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.1 audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>²²²² TV 2.0)
   
  So i want to buy a solution to see my movies and series on 5.1 with Dolby Headphone, and at weekend, have the chance to play videogame at dawn (it's not a good idea play a CoD or Halo at 2AM with a home theater on).
   
  I read your opinion to the headphones/headsets. I have an wireless headset for xbox, so for me a headphone would be fine. I liked the Tritton 7.1+ AX720, for price and your review. But it's so hard to buy it and send to Brazil. I liked the "Creative Aurvana Live!" review. I would like to spend +/- $200 on ALL things (that includes the headphone/headset, the amp and the RCA -> Toslink converter, so i can play Wii or other stereo sources by the Toslink - this costs $35).
   
  Sorry for asking this, but in my case, what you suggest? Will be 75% for movies and 25% games, but i would like that the performance be good for both cases. I find used AX720 amp (5.1 version) for a good price. This Creative Aurvana + AX720 amp will do the job good? And about the notebook sources? Just use some software to output the notebook audio to Dolby Headphone? Is this possible? If the amp plugs by USB and act too like a soundcard to take the 5.1 audio from notebook and send to the Headphone, it will be great to game too on it.
   
  Thanks a lot for attention and sorry for any english mistakes, it's not my native language :/


----------



## Trinket

Hi, I have been reading this whole thread for a long while. I would like to buy a good headphone for gaming/music mostly for fun, according to reviews and user opinions the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro or DT-990 Pro are good options.
 I play on PC and own the Asus D2X, I don't want to spend much more than 150€/200$ (I live in Spain). I have found the DT-990 Pro, DT-770 M/PRO for almost the same price, 160€.
 The problem with the DT-990 pro is that they are only sold with 250 ohm impedance, just Premium one's are 32 ohm and they are too expensive.
 All of you suggest for the Beyerdynamics to be powered by an amp, but i don't understant that point, from what i've read, an external amp only gives you higher sound output, (or alters sound quality with it's own signature sound), I always play at night, when all is quiet, is it really worth it an amp in my case to power a 250 ohm headphone?

 PD: I own a igrado headphone (use them while in the street) and if i connect them to my PC i only need 20%  volume...

 Thank you very much! This thread is awesome.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





trinket said:


> Hi, I have been reading this whole thread for a long while. I would like to buy a good headphone for gaming/music mostly for fun, according to reviews and user opinions the Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro or DT-990 Pro are good options.
> I play on PC and own the Asus D2X, I don't want to spend much more than 150€/200$ (I live in Spain). I have found the DT-990 Pro, DT-770 M/PRO for almost the same price, 160€.
> The problem with the DT-990 pro is that they are only sold with 250 ohm impedance, just Premium one's are 32 ohm and they are too expensive.
> All of you suggest for the Beyerdynamics to be powered by an amp, but i don't understant that point, from what i've read, an external amp only gives you higher sound output, (or alters sound quality with it's own signature sound), I always play at night, when all is quiet, is it really worth it an amp in my case to power a 250 ohm headphone?
> PD: I own a igrado headphone (use them while in the street) and if i connect them to my PC i only need 20%  volume...


 
  The Takstar Hi2050 are only 60-Ohm, so they should work with with your current sound card and and they sell for $65, sold on eBay and shipped from Hong Kong.


----------



## Trinket

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Takstar Hi2050 are only 60-Ohm, so they should work with with your current sound card and and they sell for $65, sold on eBay and shipped from Hong Kong.


 

 Thank you for your answer, i'm searching info for this Headphones, i have found some threads about them, it seems a good bargain. But couldn't find any reference of their soundstage or gaming performance, what do you think about it?
  EDIT: Would it be near the DT-770 PRO 80Ohm? (I think my soundcard could power them, right?)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





trinket said:


> Thank you for your answer,Ii'm searching info for this Headphones, I have found some threads about them, it seems a good bargain. But couldn't find any reference of their sound stage or gaming performance, what do you think about it?
> EDIT: Would it be near the DT-770 PRO 80Ohm? (I think my sound card could power them, right?)


 
  I've not used them for gaming....yet, but they are just fine with movies & music.
  I never use my DT770 80-Ohm anymore, too bassy for my 48 year old ears.


----------



## Trinket

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I've not used them for gaming....yet, but they are just fine with movies & music.
> I never use my DT770 80-Ohm anymore, too bassy for my 48 year old ears.


 
   
  Ok, I have been reading about the Technical Pro HPT990/Takstar Hi2050 (most people say they are the same phones). And i'm almost sure i will get a pair of them.
 Would you recommend me to buy an amp for them? Since they are so cheap i could spend a little more, i would like to know a good amp that could also power 250 Ohm headphones in case i want to upgrade in the future.
  Thank you very much for your help and recomendation, it surely is a bargain from what i've read!
   
  EDIT: For those also interested, you can buy them for 45$ here (Lot of people already bought from there).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





trinket said:


> Ok, I have been reading about the Technical Pro HPT990/Takstar Hi2050 (most people say they are the same phones). And I'm almost sure i will get a pair of them.
> Would you recommend me to buy an amp for them? Since they are so cheap i could spend a little more, I would like to know a good amp that could also power 250 Ohm headphones in case i want to upgrade in the future.
> Thank you very much for your help and recomendation, it surely is a bargain from what I've read!
> 
> EDIT: For those also interested, you can buy them for 45$ here (Lot of people already bought from there).


 
  As the Hi2050/HPT990 are only 60-Ohm (and only cost $45), it's not worth it for getting an external add-on headphone amplifier.
  I would say to hold off on buying an headphone amplifier, wait until your ready to sell off the D2X and just buy a new sound card with a built in amplifier.
  Creative Labs is come out with new sound cards (Z series) in December and I would think other brands would also be coming out with new sound cards also.
  Depending on which headphones you buy in the future might have some influence on what you get for an amplifier/sound card.


----------



## mata944

Just browsed through your guide, and would be pleased if you could reply back to this comment.  I was looking to buy a pair of gaming headsets but I know that many don't compare to actual audiophile headphones.  I'm very big on music and have been through all sorts of headphones, but have never owned a pair of gaming headsets even though I play a lot of fps on xbox 360.  I own a pair of Koss Porta Pros that are pretty new and am very pleased with them for listening to music on my phone.  I also own a pair of old Sennheiser HD 595 that I don't use as much.  I was just wondering if you have ever tired the Porta Pros or the HD 595's and what you would think of them for gaming on the 360 connected to the Astro Mixamp 5.8 or Astro Mixamp Pro?
  Thank You


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mata944 said:


> Just browsed through your guide, and would be pleased if you could reply back to this comment.  I was looking to buy a pair of gaming headsets but I know that many don't compare to actual audiophile headphones.  I'm very big on music and have been through all sorts of headphones, but have never owned a pair of gaming headsets even though I play a lot of fps on xbox 360.  I own a pair of Koss Porta Pros that are pretty new and am very pleased with them for listening to music on my phone.  I also own a pair of old Sennheiser HD 595 that I don't use as much.  I was just wondering if you have ever tired the Porta Pros or the HD 595's and what you would think of them for gaming on the 360 connected to the Astro Mixamp 5.8 or Astro Mixamp Pro?
> Thank You


 
   
  The HD595 is basically the PC360 Gaming headset without the mic.  The description of the PC360 is on the front page.  The HD595s are also the previous iteration of the HD598s - also on the front page.
   
  I would just use your HD595s, as they are already a very good headphone for gaming.
   
  Porta Pros use the same driver as KSC35, which is listed on the front page.  (Porta Pros will sound a bit different due to the headband).


----------



## mata944

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The HD595 is basically the PC360 Gaming headset without the mic.  The description of the PC360 is on the front page.  The HD595s are also the previous iteration of the HD598s - also on the front page.
> 
> I would just use your HD595s, as they are already a very good headphone for gaming.
> 
> Porta Pros use the same driver as KSC35, which is listed on the front page.  (Porta Pros will sound a bit different due to the headband).


 
  Thanks for the reply.  So would you suggest the HD595's connected via a Aar Force DSS (Astro Mixamp just a little more than what I'm willing to spend) over say the Ear Force DX12's and X42's?  Also when you say the Porta Pro's sound different do you mean so in a bad way?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mata944 said:


> Thanks for the reply.  So would you suggest the HD595's connected via a Aar Force DSS (Astro Mixamp just a little more than what I'm willing to spend) over say the Ear Force DX12's and X42's?  Also when you say the Porta Pro's sound different do you mean so in a bad way?


 
   
  Yes.  HD595 is better than anything Turtle Beach sells.  If your just doing single player and don't need chat, get the DSS.  I would get the first gen version of it though.  The DSS2 is different and not as good FWIR.
   
  The Porta Pros are pushed against your ears more, so they have slightly more bass and less soundstage.  They don't necessarily sound worse though.


----------



## mata944

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Yes.  HD595 is better than anything Turtle Beach sells.  If your just doing single player and don't need chat, get the DSS.  I would get the first gen version of it though.  The DSS2 is different and not as good FWIR.
> 
> The Porta Pros are pushed against your ears more, so they have slightly more bass and less soundstage.  They don't necessarily sound worse though.


 
  Yea I heard the dss was better than the dss2.  Well thank you very much for answering my questions.  I'll definitely follow through.


----------



## illbleed

just ordered the dt 990 pros..
  would i need another amp aside from the mixamp to power them?


----------



## ruuku

Recommended, but not necessary per say. I do notice a bit more bass and bass response with the E11 after the mixamp, but was was seeing good results with the DT990 Pros straight from the Mixamp. That being said if I were you, I would start looking towards your amp options, and begin saving up for one if you need to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E11 isn't enough to drive the 990 Pros. They'll get you a decent way there, but ultimately will still be starved for power. They deserve at least a desktop amp. The E9 or E09k are definitely enough, not the E11 which is at its limit with 250ohm with no headroom.

Its basic knowledge that 250ohm is made for home theater (receivers) and desktop amps.

People just assume because a headphone gets ear shatteringly loud off something means they're driven properly. That's false. The E5 can drive a 600ohm loudly.

The problem is voltage swings. At some points the impedance spikes to a lot more than the impedance of the headphone. I've seen swings from the HD800 jump up to almost 1000ohms.

With something like the E11, the DT990 Pros will spike up to past the E11's peak, and lose dynamics, etc. You usually want an amp with some headroom for this.

For the purpose of gaming though, the E11 will be decent. I personally would invest a little more to make sure my $200 headphones are performing up to spec at all times.

The reason I don't mind a lack of juice for the K701/Q701 when gaming, is because I'm fousing on the details with those cans, not fidelity. You don't need to fully drive them to make them gaming beasts.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/SA/SA31/SA31EN_Specs.htm

:eek:

SS amp AND single ended. That's more than the Lyr! (6 watts ar 32ohm, while the SA31 is 10watts at 40!)

I want this...SO badly. That should power every damn headphone outside of electrostatics... and even that might work. XD

Even has options to add warmth to the amp by or two levels! Holy cow. This amp sounds freaking ideal for the Q701 AND DT990/600. Just saying.


----------



## genclaymore

Never know he might decide to make a special edition that powers electrostatics too . But that is a lot of input and output connections on it. It prolly bigger in person then what it actually is in the picture.


----------



## AndrewU

Does anyone know any sites which sell the dt770 pro80s or pro32s new and ships to Canada?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/SA/SA31/SA31EN_Specs.htm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, it might work if you wire up the speaker terminals on an SRD-series transformer box to a TRS jack and plug it into that amp's headphone output. That still requires extra equipment, though.
   
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> Never know he might decide to make a special edition that powers electrostatics too


 
   
  To be frank, I have my doubts...even here on Head-Fi, electrostatics are still a bit of a niche to the point where the only real discussion is in a few threads on the High-end Audio forum. Doesn't help that the dedicated amps are crazy expensive.
   
  I suppose I'm one of the privileged few to have even heard Stax, let alone own a set. (Now if I could just audition the Koss ESP/950 and the Sennheiser Orpheus HE/60 and HE/90...)


----------



## genclaymore

Yea true, the only ones i ever seen was the ones in the threads that look like space helments. I couldn't picture my self wearing one of those. Other then the  feeling of the voltages near my ears.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I wrote Kingwa and asked about the idea of building a better wired Mixamp with DTS processing.


----------



## Itachi HM

I would apreciate so much if someone could help me! I had a post two or three days ago.. The ax720 (1° gen) + Creative "CAL" would be a good choise to play xbox and see movies using Dolby Headphones? Less than $200 for headphone/headset + DH amp?

Thanks!


----------



## Demiknight

Hey everyone, I'm buying my first decent pair of headphones and am hoping for some advice. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the CAL!s or the Samson SR 850s, which both apparently give good value for the money. 
   
  However, I've heard complaints about both of the pairs.The CAL!'s are apparently rather small and even sit on the ears for some people. Additionally, I'm in a dorm so the semi-open SR850s might be an issue there. I'm in a single, so would the sound leaking out be noticeable to people in other rooms? I've read people say that the CAD Audio MH310 are the same headphone but with a closed back, which would be nice. Does anyone have experience with that pair of headphones?
   
  I've looked for a head to head comparison of the CAL!s and the SR850s  or MH310s but found nothing, so if you just want to point me to that it might work.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





demiknight said:


> Additionally, I'm in a dorm so the semi-open SR850s might be an issue there. I'm in a single, so would the sound leaking out be noticeable to people in other rooms?


 
   
  I have never heard it said that headphones can leak sound into the _next room_. *Ever.*
  Even with fully open headphones, if the people next door can hear what you're playing on them, either:
  a) They have preternaturally sensitive hearing, and are werewolves.
  b) You shouldn't be allowed to use headphones, for the sake of your own hearing.


----------



## Demiknight

eric_c said:


> I have never heard it said that headphones can leak sound into the _next room_. *Ever.*
> Even with fully open headphones, if the people next door can hear what you're playing on them, either:
> a) They have preternaturally sensitive hearing, and are werewolves.
> b) You shouldn't be allowed to use headphones, for the sake of your own hearing.


 
   
  Ah, alright. I haven't had open headphones before, I didn't know what they sound like to the outside. I was imagining them to be something like speakers, where you could certainly hear them outside the door.
   
  I guess in that case the SR850s are my best bet, since the CAL! being small worries me too much, and there's no way to test them around me.


----------



## Eric_C

Yeah don't worry about headphones being open; that only matters for your isolation, and for people sitting right next to you (e.g. in a library or on the bus). Other than that, it is of zero concern.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only headphone I'd worry about is the HE-400 since it output sound in AND out, so its pretty audible. But others, non-issues.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> I would apreciate so much if someone could help me! I had a post two or three days ago.. The ax720 (1° gen) + Creative "CAL" would be a good choise to play xbox and see movies using Dolby Headphones? Less than $200 for headphone/headset + DH amp?
> Thanks!


 
  The CALs (Creative Aurvana Live) has a nice sound, has cups on the small side that barely fit around the ear (at least my ears).
  The Takstar Hi2050 (Technical Pro HPT990) are semi-open and come with decent Velour ear pads.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> I would apreciate so much if someone could help me! I had a post two or three days ago.. The ax720 (1° gen) + Creative "CAL" would be a good choise to play xbox and see movies using Dolby Headphones? Less than $200 for headphone/headset + DH amp?
> Thanks!


 
   
  If you don't need chat you could get the DSS v1 cheaper and then have more money for headphones.


----------



## Valaire

I currently use the Xonar Essence STX and the HD598 for PC gaming.  Despite popular opinion, my head seems to dislike the fit of the HD598 (I've tried clamping them tight and really loose, but I always seem to get some serious physical fatigue on my head after 30 minutes to an hour and have to endure).  It seems like nowadays Q701 seems like a popular recommendation.  The review by Mad suggests that the fit of the Q701 are hit or miss -- can anyone comment on whether or not the Q701 might in fact be good for someone that has issues with the HD598?  Furthermore, is there an improvement in competitive sound going from one to the other?  If so, I may try to sell the HD598's and get something new.  I tend to buy all-rounders that don't compromise competitive sound for gaming.  I use DH for music (I find it fatiguing without) and gaming.  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the Q701 more comfy. People hate the bumps, but honestly, after about a week, the bumps don't give me any problems. The HD598 and PC360 are clampy, and I found myself readjusting them a lot more than the Q701.

The Q701 is your best bet in terms of retaining all that edge for gaming, but I'll warn you that you'll probably complain about the bumps.


----------



## Valaire

Yeah, my main concern is upgrading my comfort.  My fear with this kind of thing is that I can never tell in a store by putting on a pair of headphones for 30 seconds unless they were designed to be a medieval torture device.  I dislike the clamping on the HD598 too, but it seems like you don't mind the bumps.  I use my HD598's everyday and I've never gotten used to them, and always give out a huge sigh of relief after I take off my headphones after gaming for 1-2 hours, which is obviously frustrating when you are putting money into your sound gear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The bumps bothered for a few days. Then my head got desensitized to them, and they didn't bother me in the least. What bothered me more was that I have a long-ish head, and the Q701 were fully extended at all times on my head. If they extended a bit more, I'd give them a 10/10 in comfort after the initial discomfort.


----------



## Evshrug

valaire said:


> I currently use the Xonar Essence STX and the HD598 for PC gaming.  Despite popular opinion, my head seems to dislike the fit of the HD598 (I've tried clamping them tight and really loose, but I always seem to get some serious physical fatigue on my head after 30 minutes to an hour and have to endure).  It seems like nowadays Q701 seems like a popular recommendation.  The review by Mad suggests that the fit of the Q701 are hit or miss -- can anyone comment on whether or not the Q701 might in fact be good for someone that has issues with the HD598?  Furthermore, is there an improvement in competitive sound going from one to the other?  If so, I may try to sell the HD598's and get something new.  I tend to buy all-rounders that don't compromise competitive sound for gaming.  I use DH for music (I find it fatiguing without) and gaming.  Thanks.




I bought Mad's previous Q701's from him, before that I mostly used Audio Technica AD700 and Sennheiser PX100 (which right now need new earpads). I have that fun condition commonly referred to as "Thinning up top" or "deforestation" or "OMG, how am I supposed to put sunscreen on this?" Aka really fine hair that doesn't do much for padding. Also fun, I have a pretty sensitive head.

So how do I like the Q701's? The bumps make no sense to me. The headband flexes nicely, the clamping pressure is light yet just right, the earpads are huge enough to not touch my ears at all, the whole system is suprisingly light weight, and the self-adjusting system really works without looking quite as goofy as the AT "wings." But the bumps don't have much give, so it's gonna feel like you have something hard resting (lightly) on your head. So I have to move the headband forward or backwards every half hour or so.

That said, I have worn them for several 8 hour sessions so far. I think the bumps are hard for the sake of durability. In the past week I have taken to placing a piece of foam on my head as a buffer, and I don't have to do anything to wear the headphones almost indefinitely after that. These are, hands down, the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. There is a nice weight distribution balance between clamp and headband, while the higher end sennheiser's I've tried out had more clamping force than I like for long sessions. The ear comfort of the Q701 was a revelation.

To the fellow wondering about open vs closed headphones in a dorm single... My AD700 are considered very open, yet my buddy next door never knew when I was listening to music or gaming. Meanwhile, the walls are thin enough that I would always hear if he got a text message on his phone. Finally, if you are a freshman... Let me tell you, there will always be those two or three people in range who use their speakers at all hours and don't give a damn if you can hear it or not. Open headphones were never a problem, but comfortable earplugs are the only things with enough seal to let you live (and sleep) in your own little world.


----------



## Valaire

Hmm, I have never thought about the dimensions of my head.  I've always just considered it "roundish."   I guess I'll check out some youtube reviews of these bumps since it seems you are saying that the Q701, in your experience, is straight up better than the HD598.  Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The bumps bothered for a few days. Then my head got desensitized to them, and they didn't bother me in the least. What bothered me more was that I have a long-ish head, and the Q701 were fully extended at all times on my head. If they extended a bit more, I'd give them a 10/10 in comfort after the initial discomfort.




Lol I want to post pictures of Stewie Griffon and that kid from rug rats.


----------



## Evshrug

valaire said:


> Hmm, I have never thought about the dimensions of my head.  I've always just considered it "roundish."   I guess I'll check out some youtube reviews of these bumps since it seems you are saying that the Q701, in your experience, is straight up better than the HD598.  Thanks!




Would you like me to post a video to YouTube about the fit and what the bumps are like? I won't be able to post it till tomorrow (unless I go to a place with free wi-fi tonight), but I wouldn't mind. It could be part of my Q701 overall review.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The CALs (Creative Aurvana Live) has a nice sound, has cups on the small side that barely fit around the ear (at least my ears).
> The Takstar Hi2050 (Technical Pro HPT990) are semi-open and come with decent Velour ear pads.


 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> If you don't need chat you could get the DSS v1 cheaper and then have more money for headphones.


 
   
  CAL! i find for $110 and DSS v1 i find for $67. It's a good pair with this price?
   
  About Dolby Headphone, can i plug the DSS v1 by USB to desktop/notebook, and use a player that do DH, and turn off any enhance by DSS? I will get the same DH sound if my X-Fi on desktop output Dolby by DD Live?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Lol I want to post pictures of Stewie Griffon and that kid from rug rats.




Long-ish vertically, not wide-ish.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> CAL! i find for $110 and DSS v1 i find for $67. It's a good pair with this price?
> 
> About Dolby Headphone, can i plug the DSS v1 by USB to desktop/notebook, and use a player that do DH, and turn off any enhance by DSS? I will get the same DH sound if my X-Fi on desktop output Dolby by DD Live?


 
   
  $67 is fine, although that's how much it goes for new and it's about $20-30 cheaper used on ebay or whatever.  $110 is more then the CALs usually go for.  The CAls are great for music, but I'm not sure they'd be my first choice for gaming.  They're closed, and although they are good for closed headphones I would want something open with a larger soundstage myself.


----------



## chicolom

Is that Philips Fidelio X1 out yet?


----------



## Evshrug

itachi hm said:


> CAL! i find for $110 and DSS v1 i find for $67. It's a good pair with this price?
> 
> About Dolby Headphone, can i plug the DSS v1 by USB to desktop/notebook, and use a player that do DH, and turn off any enhance by DSS? I will get the same DH sound if my X-Fi on desktop output Dolby by DD Live?




USB is only for power, not for sending audio from your PC to the device.
If you already have an X-Fi sound card, you should already have virtual surround sound capabilities with that card.
I have seen used DSS for less than half that price (United States Dollar).

I thought about replying to your other posts, but sometimes the language barrier makes me not know if you are saying one thing or something else.

Good Luck


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Long-ish vertically, not wide-ish.




So instead of a Stewie or Xenomorph head, another way instead of longish is your head is rather tall?


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> $67 is fine, although that's how much it goes for new and it's about $20-30 cheaper used on ebay or whatever.  $110 is more then the CALs usually go for.  The CAls are great for music, but I'm not sure they'd be my first choice for gaming.  They're closed, and although they are good for closed headphones I would want something open with a larger soundstage myself.


 
   
  This price is the product + shipping to Brazil final price. The prices i put are from Ebay, the best from sellers who ships to Brazil. About DSS i don't care if is new or used, but it's hard to find these things on Ebay.
   
  I think that the use will be 75% for movies and 25% for games, and at first post the OP have a good impression for it, i don't know if have best headphones in this price range for general use...
    
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> USB is only for power, not for sending audio from your PC to the device.
> If you already have an X-Fi sound card, you should already have virtual surround sound capabilities with that card.
> I have seen used DSS for less than half that price (United States Dollar).
> I thought about replying to your other posts, but sometimes the language barrier makes me not know if you are saying one thing or something else.
> Good Luck


 
   
  I have a X-Fi XtremeGamer on my Desktop, but i bought last year just to use DTS Connect to play/view 5.1 movies on my HT, because it has only 1 Toslink input. Now my desktop is a HTPC, i don't use it more (audio goes trought Nvidia GT520 HDMI). 
   
  Sorry for bad english in any post, it's not my native language. The question is that i have a notebook with P2 and HDMI output, so if i want to output any 5.1 sound, or i will have to buy a X-Fi USB card that makes a Dolby Live, or output from HDMI.
   
  I want the headset + amp (DSS, ax720, etc) to see movies on my notebook with Dolby Headphone audio, and to play Wii (RCA audio, easy to convert to P2) and Xbox (optical), so this DSS will take the Pro Logic II from Wii and Dolby Digital from Xbox and output to Dolby Headphone fines. And from notebook, i will need to use Media Player Classic to output the audio on Dolby Headphone, and with the DSS take the DH audio from P2 and output it on my Headphone? Or i just plug the headphone direct on notebook?
   
  Dolby Headphone by DSS is the same DH from software? (Foobar, MPC)?
   
  About DSS, i took a read on DSS manual, it says that it can take audio from USB, but only stereo.
   
  Sorry for a lot of text and questions, and any question about "language barrier making not know what i'm saying", fell free to ask and i will try my best to write again, being "clear".
   
  Once again, thanks a lot for attention.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Is that Philips Fidelio X1 out yet?


 
   
  Seems they're available in Europe already. Hopefully we see Philips bringing over more like this. Currently the only way to get the L1 model, which has been out for a bit now, in the US is through Apple's website. I haven't seen any US stores for the X1, which is new. Of course there's always the importing option too. I've wanted to hear the L1 for portable gaming myself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've heard the L1 is a bit muddy though.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've heard the L1 is a bit muddy though.


 
   
  I could definitely see that, considering the size of the cups. But there's a post in the L1 thread claiming that lifting the pads can reduce the muddiness as well as increase the soundstage a bit. My biggest drawback would be the pads. Supposedly they're not replaceable like the X1's are, and I'd hate to have the pads degrade and have to buy all new cans.


----------



## Evshrug

itachi hm said:


> This price is the product + shipping to Brazil final price. The prices i put are from Ebay, the best from sellers who ships to Brazil. About DSS i don't care if is new or used, but it's hard to find these things on Ebay.
> 
> I think that the use will be 75% for movies and 25% for games, and at first post the OP have a good impression for it, i don't know if have best headphones in this price range for general use...
> 
> ...




If you think you write a lot of text, you should see some of my posts 

So you want to get virtual surround with a desktop HTPC, laptop, Wii, and Xbox (360 with HDMI?). The computers both have HDMI (which I assume is connected directly to a Tv?), but the laptop has P2 (dunno what this is, someone else probably does) and the desktop HTPC has a toslink/optical in (no toslink/optical out?). Does your TV have an optical out? Most modern HDTVs do, and that could of course connect to the DSS. Oh, and the DSS implementation of DH is like DH mode 2 on Foobar. 

When you're on your laptop... Well, I guess the stereo out could be up sampled by the DSS to Dolby Pro Logic II simulated surround and then turned into Dolby Headphone, but you'll lose a lot of positional cues. You might do well to find a DH plug-in for Media Player Classic, or find the Foobar program and get the DH plug-in for that, so you'll have good DH when watching movies with surround. The only thing is gaming on your laptop... If the game doesn't have a Headphone mode built in, then DPLII-->DH may be the best you can do with a DSS.

Your desktop HTPC with X-Fi XTremeGamer should still function even if you are using the graphics card for video out. So you should look into that.

Wii would have to be DPLII-->DH, using whatever method of connection to the Wii's stereo sound you can manage.

Xbox optical will be easy to get surround sound with DSS, also works pretty well for DVD movies and Netflix too, in my opinion.

Another option IMO you could consider that would do virtual surround for headphones, if you can find a good price, would be Creative's Recon3D USB sound processor. It's what I use... Mad Lust Envy (the OP) prefers his Mixamp, I prefer the Recon3D to listening to a DSS I heard at my local electronics stores. It's priced between the DSS and the Mixamp, but the benefit is it can act as an external soundcard through it's USB DAC, Optical Input, and 3.5mm Headphone Input (you can get an RCA to 3.5mm cable for your Wii). So you could just run everything through it. Just an idea, good luck!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Applying Dolby Pro Logic II to a stereo signal couldn't possibly end well. The signal needs to have the surround channels matrixed in for DPL2 decoding to be of any benefit, and that's what GCN, Wii, and some PS2 games do.
   
  If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.
   
  Oh, and if anyone wants a Recon3D USB, mine should be coming back tomorrow, at which point it's going up for sale. Anyone still interested?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.


 
   
  Nice, I like that little thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That looks like a pretty neat device, I must say. Seems to be the cheapest way to get DH on any computer, including laptops.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you think you write a lot of text, you should see some of my posts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry, here in Brazil we can this as P2 (3.5mm jack), the "default" headphone port on motherboards, smartphones:
   
  http://cabosexpress.com.br/images/cabop2j2.jpg
   
  My HTPC is connected to TV by an 1.4 HDMI cable (3D). I have a Toslink out by the X-Fi Xtremegamer, with DD Live/DTS Connect plugin. About working with videocard, it works, but i can't plug the X-Fi on my GT520 to pass audio. If i want to play a game in 5.1 mode, i will need to plug the X-Fi directly on my HT and activate DTS Connect. For what i read about some time ago, i can't "send the 5.1 PCM from a game/movie source to the X-Fi to make a DTS packet and after that, take back the DTS packet and send by my videocard's HDMI. Only can make a bitstream (i use XBMC for movies) for DTS and Dolby by my videocard to TV, and then send it to the HT.
   
  Yes, my televison have optical out, who pass Dolby and DTS from HDMI to it (one of a few models here in Brazil who does it).
   
  I will need to do a trick to use MPC on mey laptop's XBMC, to work with Dolby Headphone. So to see (and listen) surround source on my laptop, i will just need to plug the headphone direct to the "p2" plug? I wouldn't need to use DSS in this case?
   
  Wii use a 5-way cable like this (here in Brazil we call it component cable, with RCA jack):
   
  http://www.genesisgames.com.br/images/descricao/Cabo%20Video%20Componente%20PS2[1].jpg
   
  So in the DSS case, i wouldn't need anything more, because any television have an "p2" output.
   
  Xbox works fine to, toslink -> toslink and OK.
   
  Recon3D i find for $145 (w/ shipping), i think that it's not good idea in this case :/
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Applying Dolby Pro Logic II to a stereo signal couldn't possibly end well. The signal needs to have the surround channels matrixed in for DPL2 decoding to be of any benefit, and that's what GCN, Wii, and some PS2 games do.
> 
> If he wants Dolby Headphone out of a PC, get a Xonar U3. It's a little USB thumb stick audio device that's getting pretty good reviews for a $40 device. I may get one to review eventually.
> 
> Oh, and if anyone wants a Recon3D USB, mine should be coming back tomorrow, at which point it's going up for sale. Anyone still interested?


 
   
  The Recon3D does make a Dolby Headphone from USB and Toslink? I find about "THX and Dolby Digital", but didn't find anything directly related to Headphone. This tecnology have other name? It does make "DD Live" from USB?
  If yes, i think that this Recon3D resolves 100% of my problems. I can plug it into meu laptop and play any 5.1 game, can plug my Wii by 3.5mm jacket and use Dolby proLogic II, can plug my Xbox and use it Dolby Digital...
  If you ship it to Brazil, maybe we can do business  Working fine, with all items?
   
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Nice, I like that little thing.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That looks like a pretty neat device, I must say. Seems to be the cheapest way to get DH on any computer, including laptops.


 
   
  But for $75 still is the cheapest way?


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E11 isn't enough to drive the 990 Pros. They'll get you a decent way there, but ultimately will still be starved for power. They deserve at least a desktop amp. The E9 or E09k are definitely enough, not the E11 which is at its limit with 250ohm with no headroom.
> Its basic knowledge that 250ohm is made for home theater (receivers) and desktop amps.
> People just assume because a headphone gets ear shatteringly loud off something means they're driven properly. That's false. The E5 can drive a 600ohm loudly.
> The problem is voltage swings. At some points the impedance spikes to a lot more than the impedance of the headphone. I've seen swings from the HD800 jump up to almost 1000ohms.
> ...


 
  So was i better off going with q701 then ? :/ seems like i would spent less for them. Im hoping they will sound good without me having to buy an extra amp. Maybe just being able to hook up the mixamp to my pc, which i dont do very often. I usually just have them hooked up directly to my desktop. my dt990 pros should be here in the mail today.


----------



## illbleed

what about this? XD
   
http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E6-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B005HJWWW8/ref=pd_cp_e_3


----------



## ruuku

Keep in mind that sounding good, and sounding its best are two completely different things. The setups MLE recomends in terms of driving the headphones are in order to get the maximum performance out of the 'phones. It doesn't mean that it won't sound "good" without proper/ample amplification but rather there is room for improvement. 

The E6 has even less power than the E11... For a budget setup i would reccomend an E9 or O2. 

I recently A/B'd both the Q701 and the DT990pro off of the E11 and my HT Reciever. The differences were most noticiably felt in an increase/widening of the soundstage and a more filled out sound throughout the whole band. Again this isn't a case of bad/good, but good/better.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> The Recon3D does make a Dolby Headphone from USB and Toslink? I find about "THX and Dolby Digital", but didn't find anything directly related to Headphone. This tecnology have other name? It does make "DD Live" from USB?
> If yes, i think that this Recon3D resolves 100% of my problems. I can plug it into meu laptop and play any 5.1 game, can plug my Wii by 3.5mm jacket and use Dolby proLogic II, can plug my Xbox and use it Dolby Digital...
> If you ship it to Brazil, maybe we can do business  Working fine, with all items?


 
   
  Well, it's not Dolby Headphone, but their own "THX TruStudio Surround" processing. The effect works reasonably well, if not completely flawlessly.
   
  For the Wii, you'll need something with a proper analog input (the analog aux-in is just for PC recording as far as I can tell) that can decode Dolby Pro Logic II. But it should work reasonably well for PC and Xbox, so no worries there.
   
  I'd be willing to ship to Brazil, but you'll have to pay the shipping costs. We'll discuss it further when the UPS truck actually gets here and returns it...it's unusually late today. They generally deliver well before 4:00pm.


----------



## dkkmjmj

Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread.


----------



## dkkmjmj

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just in case people would think of using the E10 with the Mixamp: The Fiio E10 is a USB dac/amp ONLY. It will not work without the USB connecting directly to the device you're using them on. That means it's to be mainly used for computers, and won't work with the Mixamp/etc..
> The CAL and DT770 Pro 80 are similar for me, with the biggest difference being the DT770 has a harsher treble, and the CAL is warmer. The CAL has less bass bloat (but still quite bassy), is easier to drive (no amp needed). The 770 pro 80 needs an amp, has bigger soundstage, and better positioning (though for the purpose of fun gaming, the CALs are excellent at positioning anyways).
> The DT770 Pro 80 with something like the E11 would put it over the top vs the CAL. Without an amp, the CAL is better, less muddy, and cheaper.
> Comfort-wise, I find them both to be amazingly comfy, though the 770 pros get the extra point for velour pads.
> ...


 
  [size=9.5pt]Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread and the double post. [/size]


----------



## Evshrug

Regarding the Xonar U3:

It looks cool, and it seems to go on sale sometimes. A good cheap device for getting Dolby Headphone out of a computer. But the designer of the Objective 2 amp tested out the U3 and posted his results on his blog, apparently he found it to perform similarly to a couple other C-media devices. The main reason I didn't suggest the U3 was that it is USB only, so he could only use it with his computer. Assuming he doesn't pipe in the audio from his consoles to the PC...
Also, if he just watches movies on PC, getting a Dolby Headphone software plug-in may be the most frugal way to get surround.

Regarding the Recon3D:

Instead of Dolby Headphone, the Recon3D uses THX Pro Surround to make headphone surround from Dolby or PCM 5.1 channel audio. A few pages back, I wrote a detailed report on testing how to get the best sound out of the Recon3D; it's not an "audiophile" device, but I think it does a good job and can sound better than stock with just a few adjustments. I like the input versatility (USB, Optical, and 3.5mm (P2)), the tweaks you can make to THX mode (mostly like the bass adjust and ClearVoice), and I think that offloading the audio processing has increased my PC game performance a small bit. Anyway I have no worries using the full audio quality settings, even on CPU intensive games like the RTS genre. The only thing is, DTS will still only be available through your X-Fi card.

Illbleed,
Lol don't feel bad about your Beyerdynamics! Those are also very well regarded headphones, and they will reward you with better dynamics once you have the savings for a nice amp. Don't you like them pretty well as-is? I'm currently looking into low-cost but good value amps for my Q701, which have only 50 Ohms but have their own challenges for amping. If you don't want to wait, you can't go wrong with a FiiO E9 desktop amp. The FiiO E6 is a step down from the FiiO E11... It's not going to be what you're looking for.
I'm looking for evaluations and reviews on lesser-known amps such as fred_fred2004's tube hybrid, the Little Dot I+, and lastly the Indeed G2 hybrid amp. Of course, the Objective2 solid-state headphone amp will also provide everything you need pretty reliably, and is sold assembled-and-ready by JDS labs in America.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dkkmjmj said:


> [size=9.5pt]Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread and the double post. [/size]


 
  What optical source(s) are you plugging the Astro Mix-Amp. into?
  Does this source have DDL (Dolby Digital Live)?
  You can use a 3.5mm (1/8, mini-jack) male to 3.5mm male cable to connect the Astro Mix-Amp. headphone output to the line in on the Fiio E11.
  Use your ears to judge if it improves the audio.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Well, it's not Dolby Headphone, but their own "THX TruStudio Surround" processing. The effect works reasonably well, if not completely flawlessly.
> 
> For the Wii, you'll need something with a proper analog input (the analog aux-in is just for PC recording as far as I can tell) that can decode Dolby Pro Logic II. But it should work reasonably well for PC and Xbox, so no worries there.
> 
> I'd be willing to ship to Brazil, but you'll have to pay the shipping costs. We'll discuss it further when the UPS truck actually gets here and returns it...it's unusually late today. They generally deliver well before 4:00pm.




Besides the mic-in jack, doesn't the optical-in jack double as 3.5mm in? Thats what I was thinking he could use... of course, if the Wii and Xbox are hooked up to the TV, My thinking is that he could just run the optical-out from his Tv to the Recon3D and have a simple setup 
I'm away from my thingie right now.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Besides the mic-in jack, doesn't the optical-in jack double as 3.5mm in? Thats what I was thinking he could use... of course, if the Wii and Xbox are hooked up to the TV, My thinking is that he could just run the optical-out from his Tv to the Recon3D and have a simple setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  What I'm saying is that the 3.5mm aux-in on that jack doesn't work that way, at least not in my brief testing. Creative didn't design it with the Wii in mind.
   
  The safe bet for the Wii is to get an Ear Force DSS or SU-DH1, but both are discontinued and don't provide any PC support.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dkkmjmj said:


> [size=9.5pt]Received my DT 770 pro 80 ohm for a week now. Using the astro mixamp,  I compared it to my ATH A900. Honestly, I am a bit disappointed. A900 sounded much fuller compared to the DT 770. However, DT 770 edges out the A900 in the bass department. The bass has much more depth and impact. Even though I am disappointed in the DT 770, I can still see the potential of these phones for immersive gaming. From your post, you suggest using the Fiio E11 along with the mixamp when using headphones with high impedence. I read somewhere that double amping is a no-go for sound quality. Is this true? Also would using E11 along with the mixamp help the DT 770 beat the A900 in terms of both immersive and competitive gaming? Lastly, how do you hook up Fiio E11 to the mixamp? Sorry for all these questions. I am still quite new to all of this. Thanks for this great thread and the double post. [/size]




Well, the DT770 Pro 80 treads on muddy quite a bit, which is why I'm sure you're disappointed. I've mentioned it various times. It's not a very clear sounding headphone. What it excels at is bass prominence and closed soundstage/positioning. It will NEVER be good for competitive gaming due to it's bass mucking up details. I mention this on my review. Sigh. That's why competitive score isn't good. For just a little more, the DT990 Pro is noticeably better to me, though it's open.

The DT770 Pro 80 can sound full, but you need amping. The DT770 Pro 80 is easiest to drive, and I assume the E11 would be beneficial, though I'd rather get a Fiio E9/E9K. All Beyers on my guide need amping. No ifs, ands, or buts. 

Double amping is the ONLY way to get hard to drive headphones to sound good off the Mixamp. Yes, it will be better than not double amping at all. Double amping is overblown on head-fi. The same is done in audiophile terms. It's called pre-amping. Just, in this case, you're amping out of a headphone jack into another.


----------



## illbleed

on my computer under sound i can change the default format from 2 channel 16 bit, 44100 Hz (cd quality).
  Should i change this to the studio quality?
   
  btw i just got my dt990s pros in the mail.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> on my computer under sound i can change the default format from 2 channel 16 bit, 44100 Hz (cd quality).
> Should i change this to the studio quality?
> 
> btw i just got my dt990s pros in the mail.


 
   
  No. Only change that if your data was *mastered* at different settings. E.g. SACD.
  If you bought a standard CD then it was mastered at 16/44, and you should keep your settings to match.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> No. Only change that if your data was *mastered* at different settings. E.g. SACD.
> If you bought a standard CD then it was mastered at 16/44, and you should keep your settings to match.


 
  okay thank you.
  So i plugged my mixamp to my pc and now it just sounds like stereo with my a40 headset and the dt990s.
  did i do something wrong? sounds more surround sound without it.


----------



## Eric_C

What cable are you using to connect your MixAmp to your PC?
  Is your PC's soundcard capable of surround sound?


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> What cable are you using to connect your MixAmp to your PC?
> Is your PC's soundcard capable of surround sound?


 
  im using the TOSlink cable, its plugged into the back of my computer. Im pretty sure my soundcard does because it has an option for virtual surround and thats what i usually do for my a40 headset and sounds way better than with the mixamp.


----------



## Eric_C

Hm. OK did you make sure that the soundcard is _not_ doing virtual surround? You need to feed the MixAmp a true surround sound signal, then the MixAmp itself will do the virtual surround mixing.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> im using the TOSlink cable, its plugged into the back of my computer. I'm pretty sure my sound card does because it has an option for virtual surround and that's what I usually do for my a40 headset and sounds way better than with the mix-amp.


 
  In order to get six channels of audio to the Astro Mix-amp, thru the optical, your sound card needs to enable DDL (Dolby Digital Live).
  DDL compresses 6-channel audio so it can be sent thru the optical cable.
  If you do not have DDL, then all you get thru the optical connection is 2-channel PCM (uncompressed) audio.
   
  What motherboard is in your computer?
  Does your computer use an add-on sound card, if so what model sound card?


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hm. OK did you make sure that the soundcard is _not_ doing virtual surround? You need to feed the MixAmp a true surround sound signal, then the MixAmp itself will do the virtual surround mixing.


 
  can you put that in steps for me? lol im sorry. I understand what you are saying, but when i try it myself it sounds the same.
  So first imma turn off the virtual surround sound.. btw i have all my audio devices disabled (speakers, S/PDIF, headphones, etc.) except for the mixamp one that is labled Speakers 2- ASTRO Gaming USB Mixamp Device. do you want me to disable the virtual surround on that too? under properties?


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> In order to get six channels of audio to the Astro Mix-amp, thru the optical, your sound card needs to enable DDL (Dolby Digital Live).
> DDL compresses 6-channel audio so it can be sent thru the optical cable.
> If you do not have DDL, then all you get thru the optical connection is 2-channel PCM (uncompressed) audio.
> 
> ...


 
  bleh, i really wish i could show you what im looking at. So under sound, i have a device for audio thats labled Digital Audio (s/PIF) i go to properties and it says ... Encoded Formats: Which of the following formats is your difital receiver able to decode? then it has DTS audio and Dolby Digital checked. (doesnt say Dolby Digital Live tho?).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> bleh, I really wish i could show you what im looking at. So under sound, i have a device for audio thats labled Digital Audio (s/PIF) i go to properties and it says ... Encoded Formats: Which of the following formats is your difital receiver able to decode? then it has DTS audio and Dolby Digital checked. (doesnt say Dolby Digital Live tho?).


 
  In your control panel> under sound> in the playback tab, can you list what is there.
   
  I'm guessing DTS might not work with the mix-amp. please leave DTS audio disabled.
  Dolby Digital, might be short for Dolby Digital Live.
  So i'm guessing you do not know the model of your motherboard?
  If i knew the model of your motherboard, i could download it's manual.
  If you download and install a program call PC Wizard, it will provide info on your audio hardware.
  http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/pc-wizard.html


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> In your control panel> under sound> in the playback tab, can you list what is there.
> 
> I'm guessing DTS might not work with the mix-amp. please leave DTS audio disabled.
> Dolby Digital, might be short for Dolby Digital Live.
> ...


----------



## illbleed

the reason i dont know is because i bought it custom built and its not a certain computer model.
  I'll download that right now. 
  So i was watching a tutorial and the guy enables his reltek device guessing thats his sound card, so i enabled my digital audio thing, but the sound still comes from the speakers labled astro gaming. If i disable it, i dont get sound at all.


----------



## illbleed

this is what i got.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> The reason I don't know is because i bought it custom built and its not a certain computer model.
> I'll download that right now.
> So i was watching a tutorial and the guy enables his Realtek device guessing that's his sound card, so I enabled my digital audio thing, but the sound still comes from the speakers labled astro gaming. If i disable it, I don't get sound at all.


 
  Here is the listing for the latest Realtek audio software, download it, but wait on installing for now.
  http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
   
  Also might want to download the latest audio driver from the motherboard maker, when we figure out the maker.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Here is the listing for the latest Realtek audio software, download it, but wait on installing for now.
> http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
> 
> Also might want to download the latest audio driver from the motherboard maker, when we figure out the maker.


 
  last time i updated my driver with realtek it messed it up and i didnt get any virtual sound. Should i do it anyways?


----------



## illbleed

i listed what i got from pc wizard on the last page.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> this is what i got.


 
  You MB comes with the Realtek ALC889A audio processor

 Realtek ALC889A codec
 High Definition Audio
 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel
 Support for Dolby Home Theater
 Support for S/PDIF In/Out
   
  This is a link to the gigabyte site with the latest audio drivers for your MB
  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=2887#dl
  Might as well install these latest drivers, might give you more options for the audio control panel.
   
  Also download the motherboard manual, it shows on the manual pages 87-92 how to use the audio control panel.


----------



## illbleed

okay well i updated and installed it.. 
  im still not sure how to get the sound from the sound card and not the speakers labled astro gaming mixamp.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> okay well i updated and installed it..
> im still not sure how to get the sound from the sound card and not the speakers labled astro gaming mixamp.


 
  i dont have some of these options in the manual -.-  so frustrating.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> okay well i updated and installed it..
> im still not sure how to get the sound from the sound card and not the speakers labled astro gaming mixamp.


 
  In the manual, it will show you where to enable DDL.
  Is not "Astro gaming Mix-amp," the Astro Mix-amp.
  Try unplugging the speakers, see what happens.


----------



## Eric_C

I'm concerned that your MixAmp is listed as a USB device. That shouldn't be the case at all. Is your MixAmp wired? The later models (post-2010) use USB for chat audio + power, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> In the manual, it will show you where to enable DDL.
> Is not "Astro gaming Mix-amp," the Astro Mix-amp.
> Try unplugging the speakers, see what happens.


 
  okay i got it to work. I didnt see DDL, but they sound better without the mixamp. that normal? My only option without the mixamp was Home Theater/ Dolby Headphone and Natural Bass.


----------



## illbleed

music sounds better without it, borderlands 2 sounds the same with or without mixamp.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I'm concerned that your MixAmp is listed as a USB device. That shouldn't be the case at all. Is your MixAmp wired? The later models (post-2010) use USB for chat audio + power, if I'm not mistaken.


 
  yeah its wired. but i got it to work. they sound the same without the mixamp... but they do sound really awesome.
  Im still trying to figure out how to turn on DDL.


----------



## Eric_C

This is just a guess, but I think your settings are still wrong.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> This is just a guess, but I think your settings are still wrong.


 
  i think i need this program called Dolby Gui Software.. but i cant find it :/.
  thats where i can enable DDL.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> i think i need this program called Dolby Gui Software.. but i cant find it :/.
> thats where i can enable DDL.


 
  If you download the manual for the motherboard, on pages 87 thru 92 is show how to enable Dolby Digital Live.


----------



## chicolom

This is why I game on consoles.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I have no idea if this is a good place to ask this, but how are the HD558's for games like red dead redemption and demons souls.(No I don't play online game's).
  Also how bad is the sound leakage on them? I'm not interested in bringing the outside but I need to know if it's bad enough to annoy people 10 feet away or wake them up.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> I have no idea if this is a good place to ask this, but how are the HD558's for games like red dead redemption and demons souls.(No I don't play online game's).
> Also how bad is the sound leakage on them? I'm not interested in bringing the outside but I need to know if it's bad enough to annoy people 10 feet away or wake them up.


 
   
  They're pretty good - they've already been mentioned many times in this thread =534479&output=posts&action=disp]if you search.
   
  They will leak some, If someones in the same room they will probably hear it.  Sort of like a pair of laptop speakers on very low volume.


----------



## widdyjudas

I find the sennheiser ie8 is good for competitive game like cs go. I can hear someone stalking behind me while trying to stab me.
  For the AT M50, yes I agree with envy. The soundstage is not there for competitive game, but I enjoyed it more than ie8 while playing l4d2 and sc2. Music wise, I love it but I can hear more details with the ie8.
  1 serious problem is the comfort issue. I already do the stretch mod and even getting the stand like pictured

   
  still no help. I got discomfort after just 30 mins. I use glasses and I think I got a pretty big head...
  Questions for envy, how is the senn hd650 (if you have exp with it) for gaming compared to dt770 pro 80 and dt990 pro 32? Soundstage wise between these 3 cans and gaming quality? Since I want to replace my m50.


----------



## illbleed

so its asking me for different things..
  first it says i need Dolby Gui Software, but there isnt one i can download.
  Says i have it in the disk for the motherboard driver, so i try to install dolby theater, then it says i need to download PCEE to install Dolby Theater :[.
  anyway someone can link me it? or maybe upload the setup somewhere so i can download? thanks so far to those helping me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> so its asking me for different things..
> first it says i need Dolby Gui Software, but there isnt one i can download.
> Says i have it in the disk for the motherboard driver, so i try to install dolby theater, then it says i need to download PCEE to install Dolby Theater :[.
> anyway someone can link me it? or maybe upload the setup somewhere so i can download? thanks so far to those helping me.


 
  So far I've learned Dolby Gui software is somewhere buried on the Gigabyte CD and it's called DCC_x64
  Do you still have the Gigabyte CD?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> This is why I game on consoles.
> 
> :tongue_smile:




Lol. I agree. If it's not plug and play, it's not for me.

As for the HD650, never used it, and fwih, it's not great for gaming.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> 1 serious problem is the comfort issue. I already do the stretch mod and even getting the stand like pictured
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Do you...do you have a Sieveking for an M50?? They cost as much (if not more) than the headphone!
  If you want a headphone for pure gaming, I'd just skip over the 650. It's known for tricky amping requirements, and not known for gaming. On the other hand, the Beyers _are_ known for gaming and easier amping, so you might as well go with those. If I were you I'd pick a 990--as MLE mentioned recently, the 770 can sound a little muffled. 
   
  Consider picking up a 250 ohm model if voice chat isn't necessary.
   
  Are you using an kind of MixAmp-like device?


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> So far I've learned Dolby Gui software is somewhere buried on the Gigabyte CD and it's called DCC_x64
> Do you still have the Gigabyte CD?


 
  It was never given to me by the dude i bought it from.
  I was reading the same thing. Kinda stupid how its a file you have to truly look for..


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> okay i got it to work. I didnt see DDL, but they sound better without the mixamp. that normal? My only option without the mixamp was Home Theater/ Dolby Headphone and Natural Bass.


 
   
  Why do you need the mixamp connected to your PC if you already have Dolby Headphones in your options?
   
  The mixamp is really just meant for consoles. To even use it with a PC you'd have to be able to transmit Dolby Digital Live with it and in most cases if you already have DDL then you'll likely also have DH.
   
  In any case, if you really want to connect the mixamp, set your pc sound options to Home Theater and try that out.


----------



## illbleed

OMG i finally found it. I dont get why it didnt show up before, Im about to test it.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Why do you need the mixamp connected to your PC if you already have Dolby Headphones in your options?
> 
> The mixamp is really just meant for consoles. To even use it with a PC you'd have to be able to transmit Dolby Digital Live with it and in most cases if you already have DDL then you'll likely also have DH.


 
  cause i was told they work better with the mixamp :/.
  But i use my mixamp for my consoles anyways, but if it sounds the same i will just use without.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> cause i was told they work better with the mixamp :/.
> But i use my mixamp for my consoles anyways, but if it sounds the same i will just use without.


 
   
  If you want it to sound better than the only real option would be to get a desktop amp and hook it up to your pc.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





calpis said:


> If you want it to sound better than the only real option would be to get a desktop amp and hook it up to your pc.


 
  I love the way they sound, i was just trying to figure out what i was doing wrong. Even with the mixamp and dolby digital live enabled they sound the same.
  But in a good way. lol. maybe the desktop amp would help.


----------



## illbleed

Would i need dolby prologic IIx enabled too? or should i disable that?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> cause i was told they work better with the mixamp :/.
> But i use my mixamp for my consoles anyways, but if it sounds the same i will just use without.


 
  The Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, will do Dolby Headphone surround sound and it's $30.99 minus $10 mail in rebate = $20.99.
  The DG comes with a half-way decent headphone amplifier.
  So if you can't get your current setup to finally work, just get the DG and leave the mix-amp hooked up to your console.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Can anyone tell me how bad the sound leakage can be for the HD558's? It's my biggest worry for this headphone otherwise I'd buy it in a heartbeat.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> Would i need dolby prologic IIx enabled too? or should i disable that?


 
  Should not need to use Dolby Pro Logic IIx, so leave unchecked.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, will do Dolby Headphone surround sound and it's $30.99 minus $10 mail in rebate = $20.99.
> The DG comes with a half-way decent headphone amplifier.
> So if you can't get your current setup to finally work, just get the DG and leave the mix-amp hooked up to your console.


 
  that sounds liike a good idea.
  my only concern about that is will it improve the sound? or will it remain the same?
  I havent had a big chance to play with them on a open world game, mostly league of legends but im enjoying them the way they are.
  I tried them with black ops zombie mode, they sounded great, but i dont have xbox live so i cant see how good they are for picking up footsteps.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> that sounds liike a good idea.
> my only concern about that is will it improve the sound? or will it remain the same?
> I havent had a big chance to play with them on a open world game, mostly league of legends but im enjoying them the way they are.
> I tried them with black ops zombie mode, they sounded great, but i dont have xbox live so i cant see how good they are for picking up footsteps.


 
  Chances are the DG will improve the audio quality over your motherboard's built in audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Can anyone tell me how bad the sound leakage can be for the HD558's? It's my biggest worry for this headphone otherwise I'd buy it in a heartbeat.




If they are 10 feet from you, they'll be able to hear it. If you have it ear piercingly loud, it will be audible as background noise, but it's not like having a radio on low. If they are in another room, even with the door open, they shouldn't hear it, other than maybe the treble.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

So basicly not too bad.
  Also how do the HD558's stand again't the DT770 80 ohm's for gaming?


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Do you...do you have a Sieveking for an M50?? They cost as much (if not more) than the headphone!
> If you want a headphone for pure gaming, I'd just skip over the 650. It's known for tricky amping requirements, and not known for gaming. On the other hand, the Beyers _are_ known for gaming and easier amping, so you might as well go with those. If I were you I'd pick a 990--as MLE mentioned recently, the 770 can sound a little muffled.
> 
> Consider picking up a 250 ohm model if voice chat isn't necessary.
> ...


 

 Its China made, just 10usd lol... Got it from Taobao.com
  I also do music, so I consider the 650 also. Thanks for the advice, I will try the 990 when I go to Hongkong. There are only 250 ohm version only in Hongkong, at least in my friend's store.
  I'm using Fiio e17, is it enough?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So basicly not too bad.
> Also how do the HD558's stand again't the DT770 80 ohm's for gaming?




I haven't heard the 558, but owned the 598, which is superior. In any case, the 598 is the opposite of the DT770 Pro 80. The DT770s are lots of bass and not a lot of detail. The 598 is all detail, and not a lot of bass. The 558 supposedly trades off some detail for bass compared to the 598, though it will definitely not copare to the 770 Pro 80 in bass presence. Also, open vs closed, which is a big difference in it of itself. The 558 SHOULD have some pretty stellar soundstage and positioning, probably moreso with the foam removal mod.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

TBH I'm not a bass head at all.(Hell last time I owned a base heavy headphone was the sony xb300 and they were too muffled for my taste).
   
  Also about the open vs closed, I can't add anything since i never owned an open headphone.(Hence why i'm somewhat nervous about how much sound they will leak).


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, it's not Dolby Headphone, but their own "THX TruStudio Surround" processing.  [...] I'd be willing to ship to Brazil, but you'll have to pay the shipping costs.


 
   
  Lets see, for me is okay to pay the shipping costs, but i have to read better about this THX TruStudio Surround, maybe is better to pay a bit more and get a Dolby Headphone instead of it. 
  Just to know, DH now is called Dolby Home Theater?
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Regarding the Xonar U3:
> It looks cool, and it seems to go on sale sometimes. A good cheap device for getting Dolby Headphone out of a computer [...] The main reason I didn't suggest the U3 was that it is USB only, so he could only use it with his computer. Assuming he doesn't pipe in the audio from his consoles to the PC...
> Also, if he just watches movies on PC, getting a Dolby Headphone software plug-in may be the most frugal way to get surround.
> Regarding the Recon3D:
> Instead of Dolby Headphone, the Recon3D uses THX Pro Surround to make headphone surround from Dolby or PCM 5.1 channel audio [...]


 
   
  If have an USB product that have Toslink input and output and Dolby Headphone/Home Theater (the same??), isn't a problem for me use my desktop or notebook to make all work (for example, plug my Xbox output on my notebook audio soundcard by toslink, and my headphone on my soundcards output.
   
  On Creatives site i find the X-Fi HD Sound Card, that have optical input, but the "users review" tell that not encode DTS/Dolby... If i buy any soundcard (cheapest) that have an optical INPUT, can i use MPC or Foobar to execute "Dolby Headphone codec" and output by my laptop's 3.5mm output?
   
  So i will just need to plug my "cheap USB soundcard" on my HTPC (if i want to play Xbox/Wii/see movies) or my notebook, and allright?
   
  Other thing, Xbox and Wii have a "headphone" mode? If i plug a good headphone and put the Xbox on "surround headphone" or Wii on "surround" mode, it will work? Or is best to put on 5.1 mode and use a codec to get this 5.1 sound and put into Dolby Headphone mode?
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Besides the mic-in jack, doesn't the optical-in jack double as 3.5mm in? Thats what I was thinking he could use... of course, if the Wii and Xbox are hooked up to the TV, My thinking is that he could just run the optical-out from his Tv to the Recon3D and have a simple setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> What I'm saying is that the 3.5mm aux-in on that jack doesn't work that way, at least not in my brief testing. Creative didn't design it with the Wii in mind.
> 
> The safe bet for the Wii is to get an Ear Force DSS or SU-DH1, but both are discontinued and don't provide any PC support.


 
   
  Why would't work? Wouldn't the TV pass only what it receives by "RCA" plugs, analog, to the 3.5mm output, still on Pro Logic II signal? Or i can just put an adapter directly from Wii to the soundcard...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> Lets see, for me is okay to pay the shipping costs, but i have to read better about this THX TruStudio Surround, maybe is better to pay a bit more and get a Dolby Headphone instead of it.
> Just to know, DH now is called Dolby Home Theater?
> 
> If have an USB product that have Toslink input and output and Dolby Headphone/Home Theater (the same??), isn't a problem for me use my desktop or notebook to make all work (for example, plug my Xbox output on my notebook audio soundcard by toslink, and my headphone on my soundcards output.
> ...


 
   
  Dolby Home Theater is a suite of Dolby features, one of which happens to be Dolby Headphone.
   
  Well, the issue with using sound cards with S/PDIF inputs to act as headphone surround processors for consoles is that they generally can't *decode* Dolby Digital or DTS signals coming through the inputs. People have tried and run into all sorts of issues. They can *encode* those formats for output to an A/V receiver, though; that's what Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect do.
   
  Neither the Xbox nor the Wii have any headphone modes. The "surround" mode probably just enables Dolby Pro Logic II encoding on the RCA outputs. You'll still hear stereo with PL2-matrixed signals, but if you want to hear the surround cues, you need a PL2 decoder-something that the Recon3D USB is incapable of.
   
  For that matter, it's not even capable of using the analog aux-in and outputting it without being connected to a PC. I just tried it, and all I got was silence.
   
  It will take stereo PCM signals over S/PDIF, but again, it won't decode Dolby Pro Logic II by itself. This forum thread may suggest a means to use it as a Pro Logic II decoder when used in PC mode, though.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Its China made, just 10usd lol... Got it from Taobao.com
> I also do music, so I consider the 650 also. Thanks for the advice, I will try the 990 when I go to Hongkong. There are only 250 ohm version only in Hongkong, at least in my friend's store.
> I'm using Fiio e17, is it enough?


 
  I think I see what you're aiming to do: you would like an M50 replacement for gaming, that is also better than your IE8 for music. How about just considering a pure gaming headphone? You seem to want something that performs well for competitive gaming--if you check MLE's 1st post you will see that the best competitive ones (with low amp requirements) are usually not as good for music. 
   
  Stick to the IE8 for music. I had it before and thought it sounded great, if lacking in isolation.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I think I see what you're aiming to do: you would like an M50 replacement for gaming, that is also better than your IE8 for music. How about just considering a pure gaming headphone? You seem to want something that performs well for competitive gaming--if you check MLE's 1st post you will see that the best competitive ones (with low amp requirements) are usually not as good for music.
> 
> Stick to the IE8 for music. I had it before and thought it sounded great, if lacking in isolation.


 

 I will be using 50-50 music and gaming. Nop, I don't want pure gaming cans. Actually, I played less cs go than l4d2 and sc2. So, for cans, its either 990pro or 650 to me.


----------



## Eric_C

Odd that you're narrowing it down to 2 choices. What else in the "all-rounder" list have you considered within your budget?


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Dolby Home Theater is a suite of Dolby features, one of which happens to be Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Well, the issue with using sound cards with S/PDIF inputs to act as headphone surround processors for consoles is that they generally can't *decode* Dolby Digital or DTS signals coming through the inputs. People have tried and run into all sorts of issues. They can *encode* those formats for output to an A/V receiver, though; that's what Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect do.
> 
> ...


 
  Also to add and just throwing this out there because i sure everyone knows this anyway. It's all about card manufacturers paying Dolby Digital masive amounts of money to be able to use their Technologies in their products. "License fees" No pay No play in DDL lol..
   
  There are old creative cards that will decode on optical input DDL but are hard to find now oh and some old avr's also that will do it too..


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Odd that you're narrowing it down to 2 choices. What else in the "all-rounder" list have you considered within your budget?


 

 DT 770 pro, being outperformed by 990 pro, so its out. Denon D400 same sq with dt770, more bass but twice the price, out. Ultrasone900pro, hard clamping, out.
  So here I am, 650 and 990 pro 250ohm.
  I'm satisfied with 650 sq for music, but don't know for gaming. 990 might satisfy my gaming need, but don't know for music.
  2 months time for choosing between these 2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't find the Ultrasones to clamp horribly. I honestly don't understand why people have an issue with clamp. You wanna loosen up clamp? Over extend your headphones a little. I found that it works on almost every single headphone I have owned. The HD280 Pro was... well, that thing is unnaturally clamping, even when worn loosely. The M50s also can be clampy, but with the post manhandling stretch (not book stretch), they were like pillows.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493838/stretching-your-m50s-for-less-clamp-and-much-more-comfort

I should probably add to the guide.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> DT 770 pro, being outperformed by 990 pro, so its out. Denon D400 same sq with dt770, more bass but twice the price, out. Ultrasone900pro, hard clamping, out.
> So here I am, 650 and 990 pro 250ohm.
> I'm satisfied with 650 sq for music, but don't know for gaming. 990 might satisfy my gaming need, but don't know for music.
> 2 months time for choosing between these 2.


 
   
  Are you suuuure you haven't overlooked anything?
   
   
   


> All-rounders (for both uses):
> 
> D7000
> *HE-400 <-- zomg pick me! hey! look here! I ship from mainland China which is really close to HK!*
> ...


 
   
  Ok but in all seriousness, I'm questioning the logic behind focusing on HD 650, which is an unknown for gaming, instead of the known quantities. 
  D7000 is out of production, so I'd understand not going for that.
  Q701? If you're ok with possibly lighter bass than the 650 (based on hearsay, no firsthand experience)
  DT 880 can be decent all-rounders. I'll test tracks out for you if you send them my way. Have the 250 ohm model.
  PC 360? Built-in mic and I've never heard of it being picky about amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is incredibly easy to drive. I didn't notice ANY improvements when pairing them up with any amps... even the Lyr (other than inheriting some of the Lyr's innate sound).
As for the HE-400, currently... there seems to be a possiblity that they have revised it yet again, and that the new ones are brighter than the one I have. Probably a minor difference, but still... if it's true, that would make the HE-400 slightly less 'fun' and more 'competitive'. This is all speculation, as there is no concrete evidence yet.


----------



## calpis

Not a single ultrasone headphone I own ever had a clamping issues. My head is big, to the point where I have to extend every headphone to the max to be able to fit my ginormous head. The headphones that I did have a problem with clamp were the Sennheiser 201 and 280.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> Not a single ultrasone headphone I own ever had a clamping issues. My head is big, to the point where I have to extend every headphone to the max to be able to fit my ginormous head. The headphones that I did have a problem with clamp were the Sennheiser 201 and 280.




SO MUCH THIS. Sennheiser loves it damn clamp. I don't find any VERY comfy if worn normally. I had to wear the PC360 and HD598 a bit loose to be comfy.

The HD201 and HD280 Pro are nightmares. Though the PX200-II was a bit too loose. Couldn't ever get a good seal with those, which ruined them for me.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't find the Ultrasones to clamp horribly. I honestly don't understand why people have an issue with clamp. You wanna loosen up clamp? Over extend your headphones a little. I found that it works on almost every single headphone I have owned. The HD280 Pro was... well, that thing is unnaturally clamping, even when worn loosely. The M50s also can be clampy, but with the post manhandling stretch (not book stretch), they were like pillows.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/493838/stretching-your-m50s-for-less-clamp-and-much-more-comfort
> I should probably add to the guide.


 

 I already did your guide since last year I bought the M50. I even put it on this stand

   
  Still, no help. I'm using glasses and I think my head is pretty big. I got unbearable discomfort after using it around 30-45 mins. The 650 clamp is already on my comfort border. I still can feel it, but acceptable. Strange that an open cans has harder clamp than the 770 and denon, which is a closed cans...
  The soundstage is none in M50, just like you said. I can't hear my surrounding on CS go, so I use the IE8. I avoided being back stabbed few times with IE8. But the M50 is more comfortable sounding when playing sc2 and l4d2.
  Ultrasone clamp is not as tight as the M50, but after I tried the beyer and 650, it become a no to me. Also, the ultrasone price in Hongkong is quite expensive. The 900 pro is like 400usd, 40 more than the 650.
  CORRECTION: actually for the M50, its not the clamp, rather the pad size. Its supposed to be over the ear, but for me its on my ear. I think my ear size is to big, the pad pressed it. Adding the clamp force, it becomes painful after 30-45 mins of use.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Are you suuuure you haven't overlooked anything?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I still need to hear music beside gaming, so no pc headset. I still need bass, no to AKG. The 650 bass already in border of my min bass need.
  I found D7k yesterday, but at usd 900...no. D5k also at 650 usd, no. D400 with similar SQ and bass with 770 pro but 400usd price, no.
  Ok, you said that Hifiman ships from China. To my and maybe your surprise, I can't find a single hifiman cans on the market. I spent 2 hours looking the entire 2 floors of the building, but no store sells a hifiman. Even on the HKprice web, there are no Hifiman brand on the cans list.
  So now, I left with beyer 990 pro 250 ohm and 650. I found from the headfonia reviewer that Fiio E17 can power the 650 and help with the soundstage.
  I will test the 990 when I have the time. Envy said that its good for gaming, I trust you. Thanks very much for this useful thread.If I find the comfort is like 770 pro and music SQ maybe close to 650, then I'm sold. For now, its still 50-50 between those 2.
  Envy, maybe you should do review for the 650 for gaming use. I think there are lots of confused people like me...


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Envy, maybe you should do review for the 650 for gaming use. I think there are lots of confused people like me...


 
  +1 Seconded
   
  I'm a newbie in headphones.  Have been using speakers for most cases, and has only just recently going into cans because of complaints of other family members. 
  Been reading this thread and I'm also one of the people interested in the comparison tests between higher end cans (HD650, T1, HD800, LCD-2, LCD-3) for the purposes of 3D sound.
  There has been a lot of comparisons between the cans for music listening, but I couldn't find anything on testing for 3D sound on em.
   
  While I have no doubt that those people that have these kind of high end cans should just look for Realizer A8 for 3D sound, I just find it very lacking in connectivity.
  No matter how amazing I've kept reading the reviews for Realizer, I can't get over the fact that I can't really output most digital audio into the Realizer without putting some kind of converter in between.  Considering the cost of one of those unit.... I really can't bring myself to even consider getting one.
   
  Headzone is somewhat much more flexible in this regard, although it doesn't calibrate the sound output to the shape of your ear/head like Realizer does.
  The calibration part seems to be the key point here on recreating the most realistic 3d spatial effect.
  If we just need a Dolby Headphone processor, we can buy a Yamaha home theater receiver for that and use the Silent Cinema feature.  It's far more flexible in terms of connections and costs far less than a Headzone, the only problem is that it's a lot bigger and heavier.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> +1 Seconded
> 
> I'm a newbie in headphones.  Have been using speakers for most cases, and has only just recently going into cans because of complaints of other family members.
> Been reading this thread and I'm also one of the people interested in the comparison tests between higher end cans (HD650, T1, HD800, LCD-2, LCD-3) for the purposes of 3D sound.
> ...


 

 I think its too much for t1, hd800 and audeze to be used on gaming. Although based on review I can guess. Audeze being bassy, is good for fun use while the hd800 and t1 is for competitive use with its soundstage and detail imaging.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Dolby Home Theater is a suite of Dolby features, one of which happens to be Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Well, the issue with using sound cards with S/PDIF inputs to act as headphone surround processors for consoles is that they generally can't *decode* Dolby Digital or DTS signals coming through the inputs. People have tried and run into all sorts of issues. They can *encode* those formats for output to an A/V receiver, though; that's what Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect do.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I give up  I will get the DSS v1 new for $75 w/ shipping and a CAL for $109 w/ shipping. With this i will have Dolby Headphone on:
  5.1 movies on laptop by codecs;
  5.1 games on Xbox by optical;
  5.1 games on Wii by 3.5mm jacket;
  5.1 games and movies on HTPC by X-Fi DDL -> optical;
   
  All of this with less than $200.
  Good choice?
   
  Quote: 





i95north said:


> Also to add and just throwing this out there because i sure everyone knows this anyway. It's all about card manufacturers paying Dolby Digital masive amounts of money to be able to use their Technologies in their products. "License fees" No pay No play in DDL lol..
> 
> There are old creative cards that will decode on optical input DDL but are hard to find now oh and some old avr's also that will do it too..


 
   
  Yep. I bought these codecs from my X-Fi...


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> I think its too much for t1, hd800 and audeze to be used on gaming. Although based on review I can guess. Audeze being bassy, is good for fun use while the hd800 and t1 is for competitive use with its soundstage and detail imaging.


 
   
  Too much to be used 'exclusively' for gaming, yes I agree.  Personally I'll be using my cans more than 90% of the time for music (albeit not in an optimal condition >> while working).
  I'm just wondering how does the high end stuff compares to the mid level stuff when it comes to gaming.
   
  Because as we know, game SFX and recordings are not up in the same standard as audiophile.
  Most of the higher end cans are so sensitive, any imperfection in the recording is said to be highlighted.
   
  Would it give us better/worse/same experience?
  Or could you just generalize and say higher level stuff always sounds better?
  ... I'm making little sense am I??


----------



## washu9

Let me make it into a concise question here.
   
  For those of you who already have a high end headphone (HD650, HD800, LCD2, LCD3, T1, etc), do you/ would you use em for gaming?
  If not, could you enlighten us as to why?


----------



## I95North

itachi hm said:


> I give up  I will get the DSS v1 new for $75 w/ shipping and a CAL for $109 w/ shipping. With this i will have Dolby Headphone on:
> 5.1 movies on laptop by codecs;
> 5.1 games on Xbox by optical;
> 5.1 games on Wii by 3.5mm jacket;
> ...




Is that card an x-fi elite pro or extreme music??


----------



## I95North

washu9 said:


> Let me make it into a concise question here.
> 
> For those of you who already have a high end headphone (HD650, HD800, LCD2, LCD3, T1, etc), do you/ would you use em for gaming?
> If not, could you enlighten us as to why?


 

Would HE-500 be considered high end?? If so its not good for fps games it pushes the sound field waay wide making positioning cues very hard to locate.

If I had the HD800 or any of the above mentioned and it fits what I'm looking for for my needs, why not use it for gaming..

Audio is audio we are only talking about the audio spectrum of frequencies here and I doubt it very seriously someone's high end headset is going to tell the difference between a flac file and gaming audio honestly.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Is that card an x-fi elite pro or extreme music??


 
   
  X-Fi Xtreme Gamer - PCI. I bought the Dolby Live + DTS Connect for it, as my home theater has only one toslink input.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Too much to be used 'exclusively' for gaming, yes I agree.  Personally I'll be using my cans more than 90% of the time for music (albeit not in an optimal condition >> while working).
> I'm just wondering how does the high end stuff compares to the mid level stuff when it comes to gaming.
> 
> Because as we know, game SFX and recordings are not up in the same standard as audiophile.
> ...


 

 I'm not saying that every expensive stuff always be better. But I'm pretty sure that the Audeze is way better than my M50...
  Well, I'm also curious for the high end stuff used for gaming. One thing is the d7000, that envy already reviewed. It seems that it almost perfect for every gaming and music need. Too bad the price is too expensive...
  Cmon envy, review the 650 for gaming


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Let me make it into a concise question here.
> 
> For those of you who already have a high end headphone (HD650, HD800, LCD2, LCD3, T1, etc), do you/ would you use em for gaming?
> If not, could you enlighten us as to why?


 
   
  It's all written in the OP, at least for those headphones reviewed by MLE already.
   
  As far as I can tell though, having a high end headphone doesn't always mean that you'll get the best experience in gaming, otherwise people like MLE and anyone on head-fi would've just bought the pricest ones and settled with it. Each can has its perks and downsides, regardless of the price range.


----------



## Evshrug

itachi hm said:


> I give up  I will get the DSS v1 new for $75 w/ shipping and a CAL for $109 w/ shipping. With this i will have Dolby Headphone on:
> 5.1 movies on laptop by codecs;
> 5.1 games on Xbox by optical;
> 5.1 games on Wii by 3.5mm jacket;
> ...




Seems sensible. Don't feel like you're "giving up" almost anything. Your HTPC probably has a better graphics card and experience than your laptop anyway, or at least it could. I'm sure someone else will want Nameless' Recon3D, if he doesn't end up keeping it. And doesn't sell it's capabilities too short 

Post your impressions once you get your DSS & CAL! in the mail


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> I'm not saying that every expensive stuff always be better. But I'm pretty sure that the Audeze is way better than my M50...
> Well, I'm also curious for the high end stuff used for gaming. One thing is the d7000, that envy already reviewed. It seems that it almost perfect for every gaming and music need. Too bad the price is too expensive...
> Cmon envy, review the 650 for gaming :tongue_smile:




Perfect, except that the pleather earpads bothered Mad so much that he sold them. I think there are a few sonic characteristics of his orthodynamic that Mad preferred over the D7000 too, though I don't recall for sure if he had them at the same time. Having so much money locked in headphones may not have been practical, either.

I'm sure Mad would be happy to rate a HD 650 or 800, LCD2, and any other flagship headphone given to him by a patron


----------



## I95North

naingolann said:


> It's all written in the OP, at least for those headphones reviewed by MLE already.
> 
> As far as I can tell though, having a high end headphone doesn't always mean that you'll get the best experience in gaming, otherwise people like MLE and anyone on head-fi would've just bought the pricest ones and settled with it. Each can has its perks and downsides, regardless of the price range.




Well said


----------



## I95North

itachi hm said:


> X-Fi Xtreme Gamer - PCI. I bought the Dolby Live + DTS Connect for it, as my home theater has only one toslink input.




Unfortunatly I don't think that one had the decoder on the sound card that will decode DDL on the input of the sound card via toslink..

Oh the old old Audigy2 card i think it will also do it with the front drive bay.

These cards from what I went through years ago were the only ones I know of that would decode ddl from a console game's optical out into the input optically of the sound card. Drivers have nothing to do with it if your trying to decode ddl on input of a sound card.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did have both the D7K and HE-400 at the same time. There's many things I miss about the D7K, but I was tired of the sweat inducing pleather. If it weren't for that, I'd have kept them. Sonically, the D7K is everything I want in a headphone.

The HE-400 is more balanced and fuller sounding, but doesn't have that omnipotent room filling bass, though it still has great bass for a balanced headphone. It just does everything justice overall, that it'd take a lot for me to give them up. For my personal taste, it could use a touch more bass presence, but that's because I'm spoiled by the Denons and DT990s. The HE400 isn't missing bass though.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Seems sensible. Don't feel like you're "giving up" almost anything. Your HTPC probably has a better graphics card and experience than your laptop anyway, or at least it could. I'm sure someone else will want Nameless' Recon3D, if he doesn't end up keeping it. And doesn't sell it's capabilities too short
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think that here in Head-Fi is the only place that have a big topic useful about Dolby Headphone. When i said "i give up" is relative to try to find comparatives, who is de best, who works fine with Dolby, is so much thing, and i don't think that will be some HUGE difference between the DSS to other "price similars", neither the CAL!. Other thing is that i don't professional ear "feeling" to know this difference.
   
  I send a message to the seller (official turtle beach) to confirm that is the DSS v1. And also asked if they have the Audio Micro II. If they have, i can use the XBMC to output Dolby -> Micro II -> DSS and DTS -> Dolby -> Micro II -> DSS and all fine with my laptop and any videos i have.


----------



## Evshrug

itachi hm said:


> I think that here in Head-Fi is the only place that have a big topic useful about Dolby Headphone. When i said "i give up" is relative to try to find comparatives, who is de best, who works fine with Dolby, is so much thing, and i don't think that will be some HUGE difference between the DSS to other "price similars", neither the CAL!. Other thing is that i don't professional ear "feeling" to know this difference.
> 
> I send a message to the seller (official turtle beach) to confirm that is the DSS v1. And also asked if they have the Audio Micro II. If they have, i can use the XBMC to output Dolby -> Micro II -> DSS and DTS -> Dolby -> Micro II -> DSS and all fine with my laptop and any videos i have.




I agree about the "professional ears," the truth is not everyone is as discerning about their audio fidelity. I believe everyone has experience with maximum SQ fidelity because we all have heard sounds in nature, in real-life; however, so many people can still find joy listening to the flawed audio of a rock concert or a movie theater. We've got it pretty good and of better fidelity than the back seats of a concert with most headphone reproductions, besides the most obvious crap headphones.

I think what happens is a sort of "chicken and the egg, which came first" moment for someone who becomes an audiophile. I think someone hears an extraordinary experience, like they are a performing musician or have a friend into hi-fi, and this exposure begins the quest to have audio as good as, or better than, some vague target.

I think the psychology of "upgradeitis" is fascinating.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> I give up  I will get the DSS v1 new for $75 w/ shipping and a CAL for $109 w/ shipping. With this i will have Dolby Headphone on:
> 5.1 movies on laptop by codecs;
> 5.1 games on Xbox by optical;
> 5.1 games on Wii by 3.5mm jacket;
> ...


 
   
  Seems good, but it won't help your laptop much unless it's one of those rare laptops with an S/PDIF output and Dolby Digital Live support. Add another $40 or so to get a Xonar U3 for your laptop, and you're good to go.
   
  Also, if you're gaming on the HTPC with an X-Fi card, you don't need the Ear Force DSS to begin with because of CMSS-3D Headphone. (That said, I have seen a few people who use X-Fi cards with Dolby Headphone processors anyway due to personal preferences.)
   
  Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Let me make it into a concise question here.
> 
> For those of you who already have a high end headphone (HD650, HD800, LCD2, LCD3, T1, etc), do you/ would you use em for gaming?
> If not, could you enlighten us as to why?


 
   
  As you know, I do all my PC gaming with a Stax SR-Lambda.
   
  It's not just gaming, either. It's for everything I do on my PC (music, movies, and anything else you can think of), one that always delivers pleasing sound quality while being comfortable for hours on end.
   
  If anyone's going to spend that much on headphones, I'd expect the same attitude; they'd better excel at everything and have no comfort issues for what they're charging.


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Seems good, but it won't help your laptop much unless it's one of those rare laptops with an S/PDIF output and Dolby Digital Live support. Add another $40 or so to get a Xonar U3 for your laptop, and you're good to go.
> 
> Also, if you're gaming on the HTPC with an X-Fi card, you don't need the Ear Force DSS to begin with because of CMSS-3D Headphone. (That said, I have seen a few people who use X-Fi cards with Dolby Headphone processors anyway due to personal preferences.)


 
   
  But i can use Dolby Headphone codec on Media Player Classic, can't? So i just plug or the headphone directly on laptop or plug the DSS to amp the laptop output.
  And this Turtle Beach's "Advance Micro II"? Will add an optical output by $20. So i can pass directly the Dolby Digital audio to DSS to decode it and encode using Dolby Headphone...
   
  This USB cards will be at least $60 w/ shipping :/


----------



## Fegefeuer

widdyjudas said:


> I still need to hear music beside gaming, so no pc headset. I still need bass, no to AKG. The 650 bass already in border of my min bass need.
> I found D7k yesterday, but at usd 900...no. D5k also at 650 usd, no. D400 with similar SQ and bass with 770 pro but 400usd price, no.
> Ok, you said that Hifiman ships from China. To my and maybe your surprise, I can't find a single hifiman cans on the market. I spent 2 hours looking the entire 2 floors of the building, but no store sells a hifiman. Even on the HKprice web, there are no Hifiman brand on the cans list.
> So now, I left with beyer 990 pro 250 ohm and 650. I found from the headfonia reviewer that Fiio E17 can power the 650 and help with the soundstage.
> ...


 
   
  I had tons of headphones to try for gaming and the HD 650 is not among those I'd recommend to anyone. The soundstage is really too small, it's darker than any Hifiman or what you probably heard, I don't even recommend HE-400 and HE-500 and I had the latter for close to a thousand hours. However since music is most likely your priority then I'd recommend a HE-500/HE-400 over most headphones - they are just too good, too friendly to the ears, musical, making you almost cry.  
   
  I would sacrifice gaming audio just for them if I had not much to spare and I think what you sacrifice is no dealbreaker. I am just more freaky then others and want the best possibilities and I can tell you there's great stuff on the way up - but think before you spend.
   
   



mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 is incredibly easy to drive. I didn't notice ANY improvements when pairing them up with any amps... even the Lyr (other than inheriting some of the Lyr's innate sound).
> As for the HE-400, currently... there seems to be a possiblity that they have revised it yet again, and that the new ones are brighter than the one I have. Probably a minor difference, but still... if it's true, that would make the HE-400 slightly less 'fun' and more 'competitive'. This is all speculation, as there is no concrete evidence yet.


   
  I am not giving a final opinion as my velour pads haven't arrived yet but following the HE-500 logic (velour=opening up, more treble) I don't have high hopes. The HE-400 highs right now are "zingy" giving guitar strings a too bright character and affecting the experience of the bass.Highs with velour are borderline annoying and more present than HE-500 with velour.


----------



## Naingolann

New wireless headset from Sony: http://youtu.be/O-eBkK-uUfk
   
  Looks cool...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Feg, the velours on the HE400 actually smooth the curve, bringing up the mids, and making the treble less peaky. Its been mentioned many times on the HE400 thread. Bass stays exactly the same.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I had tons of headphones to try for gaming and the HD 650 is not among those I'd recommend to anyone. The soundstage is really too small, it's darker than any Hifiman or what you probably heard, I don't even recommend HE-400 and HE-500 and I had the latter for close to a thousand hours. However since music is most likely your priority then I'd recommend a HE-500/HE-400 over most headphones - they are just too good, too friendly to the ears, musical, making you almost cry.
> 
> I would sacrifice gaming audio just for them if I had not much to spare and I think what you sacrifice is no dealbreaker. I am just more freaky then others and want the best possibilities and I can tell you there's great stuff on the way up - but think before you spend.


 

 Unfortunately, I can't find any hifiman brand in Hongkong. I spent 2 hours looking on every cans store, but no Hifiman. After much testing, I fell that 650 and beyer 990 pro 250 ohm will suit me best. 650 will satisfy my music need while sacrificing the gaming, vice versa with beyer.
  Actually if have not much to spare, I will take the beyer. At 220usd, its a steal, but 650 at 360usd, I have no problem.
  From Headfonia, the fiio e17 reviewer said it can drive the 650 just fine and help with its soundstage. I just have the fiio e17 now, but eventually, I will buy better amp when I have money to spare.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> But i can use Dolby Headphone codec on Media Player Classic, can't? So i just plug or the headphone directly on laptop or plug the DSS to amp the laptop output.
> And this Turtle Beach's "Advance Micro II"? Will add an optical output by $20. So i can pass directly the Dolby Digital audio to DSS to decode it and encode using Dolby Headphone...
> 
> This USB cards will be at least $60 w/ shipping :/


 
   
  Oh, for movies? Yes, you can easily do Dolby Headphone through media players. I thought you were talking about gaming, in which case it needs to be part of the audio device driver.
   
  Cheap USB S/PDIF output devices may provide a passthrough, but remember that for sources that aren't already encoded in Dolby Digital or DTS, all you get is stereo unless they explicitly support Dolby Digital Live and/or DTS Connect.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Unfortunately, I can't find any hifiman brand in Hongkong. I spent 2 hours looking on every cans store, but no Hifiman. After much testing, I fell that 650 and beyer 990 pro 250 ohm will suit me best. 650 will satisfy my music need while sacrificing the gaming, vice versa with beyer.
> Actually if have not much to spare, I will take the beyer. At 220usd, its a steal, but 650 at 360usd, I have no problem.
> From Headfonia, the fiio e17 reviewer said it can drive the 650 just fine and help with its soundstage. I just have the fiio e17 now, but eventually, I will buy better amp when I have money to spare.


 
   
  widdyjudas, I never said that you can find Hifiman headphones in physical stores in Hong Kong. I said the product _ships_ from China, so I figured this would potentially mean less time/money cost and hassle for you. Folks like me and MLE ordered the HE-400 online, from Hifiman's website. We did so without having heard the final product beforehand, and we are not disappointed.
   
  As MLE pointed out, there is some talk about the HE-400 having new drivers now, and they may/may not be what you are looking for. This is all unconfirmed at the moment, however. 
Assuming the HE-400 has the sound you are looking for, it probably makes the most sense. It's got decent soundstage and positioning, confirmed to be easy to drive (including and specifically with an E17, which you have), excellent bass that does not drown out the mids or highs.
  It is a rare headphone that has garnered consistent praise, and very little buyer's remorse. As you can see from this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/586885/new-hifiman-headphone-he-400-is-out
   
  I make no claim to understanding how the 650 will sound for gaming, and from an E17. I've not owned either. Fwiw, I have owned a 600, and was never impressed by it for gaming. It was nice for music (great tone). 
  I've got an 880 too. it's quite good pulling double-duty on gaming and music, but it can sound harsh for music. The 990 is known to have even more boosted treble. So you're potentially taking a risk there.
  And lastly: I would *strongly* advise taking Headfonia's views with a big pinch of salt.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> widdyjudas, I never said that you can find Hifiman headphones in physical stores in Hong Kong. I said the product _ships_ from China, so I figured this would potentially mean less time/money cost and hassle for you. Folks like me and MLE ordered the HE-400 online, from Hifiman's website. We did so without having heard the final product beforehand, and we are not disappointed.
> 
> As MLE pointed out, there is some talk about the HE-400 having new drivers now, and they may/may not be what you are looking for. This is all unconfirmed at the moment, however.
> Assuming the HE-400 has the sound you are looking for, it probably makes the most sense. It's got decent soundstage and positioning, confirmed to be easy to drive (including and specifically with an E17, which you have), excellent bass that does not drown out the mids or highs.
> ...


 

 Still, I need to test my self the cans I want to buy. I don't want to gamble my money on something based on online review, like my m50...
  For Hifiman, I must try it before buying it. No test no buy... I will test the 990 next time and compare with the 650 when I have the time to go to the store.
  Someone from the 650 appreciation thread is making an analysis on gaming with 650 for me. Thanks you so much!!!
  I will put the link here when the analysis is done.
  Sorry, but not from English speaking country here. You mean that not to take headfonia review seriously?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CHICOLOM!



http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,1340,pid,1340,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html







65th Anniversary Edition K702, and BUMP FREE! Time to sell your Q701!

The MSRP is a bit high 549 pounds, lol. Pretty sure it will come down to realistic levels though. The K702 was pretty expensive back in the day.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Still, I need to test my self the cans I want to buy. I don't want to gamble my money on something based on online review, like my m50...
> For Hifiman, I must try it before buying it. No test no buy... I will test the 990 next time and compare with the 650 when I have the time to go to the store.


 
   
  I understand, I really do. I've never bought without demo-ing the final product except on 2 occasions: my customs, and the HE-400. When you get comfortable with the opinions (and in particular who is expressing them), you might be comfortable with doing what I did. 
  I just want to state one last time for the record: the HE-400 is an excellent option (if the current version hasn't been changed, as rumours suggest).
   
   
   


> Someone from the 650 appreciation thread is making an analysis on gaming with 650 for me. Thanks you so much!!!
> I will put the link here when the analysis is done.


 
   
  That would be great!
   
   
   


> Sorry, but not from English speaking country here. You mean that not to take headfonia review seriously?


 
   
  Yes, that's what I mean. Don't trust Headfonia _too_ much; the main writer there (Mike) loves his bass. As you know, too much bass is bad for competitive gaming. 
  Also, his reviews tend to be too positive. That just doesn't make sense to me: how can nearly everything you review be good? And I consistently notice that when he compares products, the more expensive products tend to get praised more; this cannot always be true, so I am suspicious.
   
  I think the website is sincere. But I do not think them critical enough.
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> CHICOLOM!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> ...


 
   
  That is one sweet looking headphone.


----------



## widdyjudas

eric_c said:


> I understand, I really do. I've never bought without demo-ing the final product except on 2 occasions: my customs, and the HE-400. When you get comfortable with the opinions (and in particular who is expressing them), you might be comfortable with doing what I did.
> I just want to state one last time for the record: the HE-400 is an excellent option (if the current version hasn't been changed, as rumours suggest).
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for the support. I wiil wait for the review and post it here. I want to see if his opinion is correct with you guys.
Thats a good looking phone. But if its still bass less, then not for me. The price itself is too high for me.


----------



## Eric_C

widdyjudas, I wasn't recommending you the black AKG headphone. I was just commenting on it to MLE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna state that bass heavy headphones CAN be good for competitive (Pro 900, DT990 Premium, D7000 come to mind), but as far as STANDARD bassy cans, the bass can and will most likely muddy up the details. I think it's more of an issue with CLOSED bassy cans (i.e. DT770 pro 80), which just drowns out the sound with bass, whereas open cans let the bass decay quickly.

Not that there's a lot of options for open, bassy cans.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Other than HE-400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400 is not really a basshead can. When directly compared to typical audiophile bassy cans like the 990, D7000, Pro 900, the HE-400 is quite obviously missing a lot of the bass presence. It's when the HE-400 is compared to balanced headphones like the DT880 and Q701 that the bass really stands out. So really, presence-wise, the HE-400 is in between a balanced can, and a bassy one. It's really in a good place, to be honest. What is does better than those I just mentioned, is that it does all frequencies of bass justice, whereas the others only do either sub bass, or mid bass justice, so at times, it can compete with those in terms of quantity because it doesn't have a recess in bass anywhere, where those do.

It also never injects bass where there isn't any, but if the audio demands bass, the HE-400 produces it wonderfully. With the D7000 and the rest, there will always be some bass bloat, making them sound unnatural at times.


----------



## Eric_C

Allow me to quote myself from the other thread:
   
  "The HE-400 isn't bassy until the bass kicks in. Then the HE-400 kicks you."


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> CHICOLOM!
> 
> 65th Anniversary Edition K702, and BUMP FREE! Time to sell your Q701!


 
   

   
   
   
  Very nice!!
   
  That K702 looks hawt, but still not worth the price for a slightly reskinned Q701 and a new headband.  
   
  If it comes down to $250 it'd be a no-brainer recommendation over the other AKGs.  It says limited edition though, so it may not ever get that low 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  I wonder if they'll start retrofitting that headband to the other x70x.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If they do.... better sell your Q701 NOW!


----------



## widdyjudas

eric_c said:


> widdyjudas, I wasn't recommending you the black AKG headphone. I was just commenting on it to MLE.




I know lol! I just commenting the akg...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> CHICOLOM!
> 
> 65th Anniversary Edition K702, and BUMP FREE!




@ ,@


----------



## Itachi HM

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh, for movies? Yes, you can easily do Dolby Headphone through media players. I thought you were talking about gaming, in which case it needs to be part of the audio device driver.
> 
> Cheap USB S/PDIF output devices may provide a passthrough, but remember that for sources that aren't already encoded in Dolby Digital or DTS, all you get is stereo unless they explicitly support Dolby Digital Live and/or DTS Connect.


 
   
  The XBMC, for what i read (really can't test it, i will do it in this weekend), can do real time conversion from DTS to Dolby, to pass it by optical.
  The games i play on Xbox and Wii. games on PC is only strategy / RTS, that not have surround sound.
   
  Only waiting for the answer from Turtle bleach Ebay seller to buy the items.
   
  Thanks so much for all here for helping me.


----------



## widdyjudas

I want to have picture of 650 bass qty. How much less is it compared to the beyer 990 pro 250a and at m50?
Note, i asked qty/bass impact, not quality.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> I want to have picture of 650 bass qty. How much less is it compared to the beyer 990 pro 250a and at m50?
> Note, i asked qty/bass impact, not quality.




Just get the XB500 already


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The new XB600 is one of the sexiest headphones I have ever seen.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> Just get the XB500 already




Not that basshead... just want the picture, since moving from m50.
My gf wants the purple xb400... cant find it yet in hk


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> New wireless headset from Sony: http://youtu.be/O-eBkK-uUfk
> 
> Looks cool...


 
   
  I like how the first feature advertised is BassImpact Technology (TM). I am pretty sure I'd end up passing on these. Anything where the first key point is bass rarely meets my sound preferences. They do look nice, I will agree.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HE-400 is not really a basshead can. When directly compared to typical audiophile bassy cans like the 990, D7000, Pro 900, the HE-400 is quite obviously missing a lot of the bass presence. It's when the HE-400 is compared to balanced headphones like the DT880 and Q701 that the bass really stands out. So really, presence-wise, the HE-400 is in between a balanced can, and a bassy one. It's really in a good place, to be honest. What is does better than those I just mentioned, is that it does all frequencies of bass justice, whereas the others only do either sub bass, or mid bass justice, so at times, it can compete with those in terms of quantity because it doesn't have a recess in bass anywhere, where those do.
> It also never injects bass where there isn't any, but if the audio demands bass, the HE-400 produces it wonderfully. With the D7000 and the rest, there will always be some bass bloat, making them sound unnatural at times.


 
  Can I just say, it has been a crazy month!  I wound up ordering the HE-400s, w/ velours and they were great.  Everything you mentioned about them since getting them, became more abundantly clear when I put them on.  It was a whole lot more open(as far as sound leaking blaring from the back side). I didn't mind though, and the bass was just as described, not too much, not too little, there when it was asked and didn't have a mind of its own. Unfortunately, I had the problem like you had with DT880s, and my jaw was hurting after not too long a use. Bent them as much as I could, fiddled around with placement but it just kept happening. Maybe it's my small head, I dunno. I thought I'd try another set I wanted to try, so I bought the Pro 900s.  And I fell in love with them almost immediately.  After burn in, these things really sounded more natural than I thought a closed set would sound.  It doesn't sound like a closed set to me, and nothing sounded metallic to me(maybe it's the E17, I know you didn't have it when you had the Pro 900s, maybe it's just me).  Not having other sounds outside sneaking into my gaming session was nice too.  Comparing the two for myself I didn't feel like I was losing sound quality as far as gaming goes, music on the other hand was a little different.  The HE-400s were better for that, but that's okay.
  FWIW(from a noobs perspective), I think your ranking is spot on, and I too think the pro 900s are quite comfortable.  Bravo!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I really, really like the Pro 900s. Even now, I'm considering getting them again. I miss basshead cans, and they are amazing at that. While there's nothing natural about them (IMHO), they just have a signature that is never boring and is still very clear for gaming.

I prefer the DT990s overall, but I'd get the Pro 900s because its closed, and would compliment the very open HE400s.


----------



## Mrniceguy633

Sounds reasonable. I can't imagine what the d7ks must've sounded like


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amazing. Contrary to popular belief, the D7k and Pro 900 have nothing in common. The D7K is all sub bass, the Pro 900 is all mid bass. Because the D7k doesn't have strong mid bass, the mids breathe a lot easier than on the Pro 900s. The D7k has an organic sound to them, despite the ambient bass that is always part of the background.

The Pro 900 instead chooses to punch you in the face with tight, thunderous punches. They're both amazing for different reasons.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree with MLE, I miss the Ultrasone bass. :[
   
  Will listen to the Signature DJ soon, Should be Ultrasone's ultra basshead can and the Signature Pro is ******* good, it's like Ultrasone kicked their whole lineup in the nuts while fending off all the bashers. 
   
  Listen to this with your Ultrasone:
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEawTRfysJE&hd=1&t=2m0s


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I like how the first feature advertised is BassImpact Technology (TM). I am pretty sure I'd end up passing on these. Anything where the first key point is bass rarely meets my sound preferences. They do look nice, I will agree.


 
  Knowing it's a Sony product intended for gamers I even doubt about the bass quality of the can in the first place. xD
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,1340,pid,1340,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html


 
  Smexy.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Well guys my pair of HD558's i ordered shipped today so I expect it here pretty soon.
  After I get it I'll let you know my first impressions. I;m curious to see how these will be since I never use audiophile grade headphones.
   
  Also I will be useing them for single player games and music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Make sure to read up on how to do the foam removal mod which is reversible if the cans ever mess up.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





itachi hm said:


> The XBMC, for what i read (really can't test it, i will do it in this weekend), can do real time conversion from DTS to Dolby, to pass it by optical.
> The games i play on Xbox and Wii. games on PC is only strategy / RTS, that not have surround sound.
> 
> Only waiting for the answer from Turtle bleach Ebay seller to buy the items.
> ...


 
   
  I wasn't aware of that feature...on the other hand, I only have XBMC on my Xbox as my dashboard of choice, and I generally leave my SU-DH1 connected to it, which is capable of DTS decoding.
   
  Why stick to strategy games on the PC and leave everything else to the consoles? Just curious...if you were going to bring up FPS/TPS, then I regard the PC as the go-to platform for that if you've got a system with enough graphics performance for PC gaming.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Make sure to read up on how to do the foam removal mod which is reversible if the cans ever mess up.


 
  Does the mod make THAT much better? Remember not an audiophile so not the most experienced in this.


----------



## widdyjudas

Because the Hifiman HE 400 got so many praise in this thread, so I put more effort on searching it. It seems that my friend's store can get it for 360 usd, same price with hd 650, worth it?
  Sound wise, I believe it might please me in music and gaming. Comfort is I'm afraid of. At 440 grams, its heavy and the design seems close to the At M50, which I hate the clamping force. I can get the velour pad for 5 usd from Hifiman China site, if it helps the comfort.
  Yes, I can get the he 400 for the web too, at 390usd. Still, I want to try it, more for its comfort than sound.


----------



## Eric_C

Re: HE-400
  I was concerned about the weight too; it's not an issue. I'm a skinny guy who doesn't work out, and my frame of reference for a comfortable headphone is my DT 880 for nearly 4 years now. Versus the DT 880 (and therefore the 770 and 990, Premium editions), the HE-400 is:
  - Heavier
  - Less clampy
  - MORE open (sound leaks in more)
   
  The design is nothing like the M50. Which aspect looks similar to you?
   
  If you buy the 400, you must buy the velour pads. There is no "maybe" about this. Where is it USD 5? I see 10:
http://head-direct.com/Products/?act=detail&id=117


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Re: HE-400
> I was concerned about the weight too; it's not an issue. I'm a skinny guy who doesn't work out, and my frame of reference for a comfortable headphone is my DT 880 for nearly 4 years now. Versus the DT 880 (and therefore the 770 and 990, Premium editions), the HE-400 is:
> - Heavier
> - Less clampy
> ...


 

 Well, I will try it first when I have the time. Along with the beyer 990. But you said less clampy, are  you sure? The beyer is the the lightest clamp I ever tried, But even less clamp? The design from what I see, when you put the cans on the surface, both drivers touch each other, just like the M50. So I conclude the clamping issue. The beyer and senn, both drivers are separate when you put the cans on the surface.
  Heavy is also my concern, but I will try it first. Open seal I don't really care, I use it indoor only.
  You getting it from the USA store. I got it from Hifiman China region... I live in Hongkong and China, so its more reasonable to get it from the China web.
http://hifiman.cn/
  It said 39 rmb (5-6 usd) for the velour... Is it hard to change the pads? no experience here on modding headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the HE-400 seems to have been revised again, so I'll have to clarify that my review is on the Rev. 2 version (earlier this year), and not the newest ones.



jerg said:


> Hi!
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...




The new ones SEEM to sound brighter than the ones I own. Who knows how that would affect my scoring, though I expect it to be a minor change, where maybe the competitive would go up half a point or something.


----------



## widdyjudas

Sorry for my mistake again. I forgot again to mention that the comfort issue on the M50 is not the clamp force, but rather its the pad size.
  Clamp force is good for me, but the pad is smaller than my ear size. So its rather on my ear than over the ear. Add that with the clamping and there is my discomfort issue.
  About the revision, is the bass region affected? I don't want bass-less cans like ad700 or akg, I still need it for my music.


----------



## washu9

Another quick question here.  Hope you don't mind. 
   
  I read practically everywhere here in the head-fi forum that using amp would impart some sort of sound signature (bass, soundstage, trebble, sibilance, etc) to the output of the headphone.  Even more so with people who's using tube amplifier (where it's said that you just need to find the right tube to get the sound you want).
   
  Now, most of the low/mid class amp I read about are solid state type.  So the sound signature can not be changed like in the tube amps.
   
  So I'm wondering here.  For the purpose of gaming / movie (3D sound), where we're probably gonna be picking up a solid state type, would it make sense to choose one amp over another for their 'sound signature'?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amp differences are very often exaggerated here on Head-fi. I've found that as far as Solid State goes, they sound very much alike, assuming they are clean sounding, and provide the power a headphone needs to perform at it's optimum. The headphone will impart 98% of the sound, and the last two percent will come from the DAC and the AMP. What amps WILL do is change soundstage size, fullness of the sound, and smooth out the extremities to be more natural. Headphones like the K701 are deceptive, because they can get loud easily, but aren't exactly being fed the power it needs to perform optimally. That lack of power is what will give it a weaker, thinner sound vs an amp that has ample power.

Basically, I feel that as long as a headphone is being properly driven, you won't be able to tell one amp from another the majority of the time with blind testing. This is assuming the amps aren't imparting their own sound signature, like for example my NFB5, which adds a hint of warmth, and makes the treble ever so slightly smoother than what you'd call neutral. This works for the HE-400 (as the HE-400 has a pretty big peak in a very minor treble range). It's not a bad peak, but it is there, and the NFB5 fleshens it out.

In my opinion, buying the most powerful SS amp you can afford, that way you can future proof yourself amp-wise is what I'd go with. My dream amp is the Audio-GD SA-31. I'd get that and never think of amps ever again, though it would be imparting it's own signature.

For starters however, I'd suggest an SS amp that is neutral, like the O2 or even the E9, that way you know what to expect from SS amps. They will be fine for the vast majority of cans, and if you end up with some cans you might keep, then later on you can get an amp that specializes in adding/taking away from that specific headphone.


----------



## wallyz

[size=10pt]Review of Turtlebeach Ear force DSS + Audio Technica AD700 & Creative SB SB1300 (Recon 3D) and simulated surround in general.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Turtle beach DSS (Original) + Audio Technica AD700[/size]
[size=10pt]Creative Soundblaster Recon 3D[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I used both these devices with a PS3.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I had the Recon 3D for 3 weeks before It cooked itself and I had to return it. (So fortunately I got a no questions asked refund)[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I have had the DSS for about 3 weeks as well.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]My opinion of the surround in both is not very complementary.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I could not differentiate sounds coming from the front and rear.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]To me it was just made the sound field/stage more ambient.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I conducted a blind test with the following software and DVDs[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Killzone 3[/size]
[size=10pt]COD Black Ops[/size]
[size=10pt]Jean Michelle Jarre AERO 5.1 surround[/size]
[size=10pt]Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon 5.1 Surround[/size]
   
[size=10pt]With the games I had players perform certain moves around me while I was blind folded (monitor off). [/size][size=10pt]Left and right direction test was clear. [/size][size=10pt]I failed the front and back direction test with completely random results on each test.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]In each test a custom game was created and only myself and the one other testing player was present to minimise any confusion.[/size]
[size=10pt]Via chat I would indicate I was now blind folded (monitor turned off) and the testing player round ran to a random 360’ position around me.  He would them fire a weapon or jump on the spot or reload his weapon to make a noise.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I would then verbally indicate where I believe he was in relation to me. The testing player consistently confused my front and back direction by simply moving closer or further away from me. [/size][size=10pt]We then swapped roles. I tested and he guessed (guessing is to key word here).  And again he also failed the test.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]The surround also failed to place effects and music in the correct staging positions. These was confirmed with two different testers.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]For example in Pink Floyd's Money 5.1 surround edition the famous opening sequence of cash registers has a set order in the 5.1 surround.  I could positively hear the position when using both a 5.1 & 6.1 surround speaker setup.  However in the surround headphones the position is completely lost.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]This is because each cash register sound not only changes position but also changes in timbre and tone. So sometimes a vibrant cash register sounds from the front but sometimes from the rear. [/size][size=10pt]This was plain to hear with a real 5.1 speaker setup.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Watching surround movies was certainly more enjoyable with the surround headphones than plain stereo and I think this is because the position cues are not as important as in gaming. Very big h[/size][size=10pt]owever it was not possible to listen to many Blu Ray titles that only supported DTS and with no Dolby sound option.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Overall.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]Simulated surround though stereo headphones made surround music and DVD movies audibly more enjoyable but certainly not accurate surround sound staging.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]FPS gaming seemed to be a big disappointment as there was front rear direction confusion.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]From wiki pedia[/size]
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
   
[size=14.5pt]Limitations[/size]

[size=10pt]Because each person's pinnae are unique, and because the filtering they impose on sound directionality is learned by each person from early childhood, the use of pinnae during recording that are not the same as the ultimate listener may lead to perceptual confusion[/size]
   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_localization
   
 *Sound localization in the median plane (front, above, back, below)* [size=10.0pt]The human outer ear[/size], i.e. the structures of the pinna and the external ear canal, form direction-selective filters. Depending on the sound input direction in the median plane, different filter resonances become active. These resonances implant direction-specific patterns into the frequency responses of the ears, which can be evaluated by the auditory system(directional bands) for vertical sound localization. Together with other direction-selective reflections at the head, shoulders and torso, they form the outer ear transfer functions.
[size=10.0pt]These patterns in the ear's frequency responses[/size] are highly individual, depending on the shape and size of the outer ear. If sound is presented through headphones, and has been recorded via another head with different-shaped outer ear surfaces, the directional patterns differ from the listener's own, and problems will appear when trying to evaluate directions in the median plane with these foreign ears. As a consequence, front–back permutations or inside-the-head-localization can appear when listening to dummy head recordings,or otherwise referred to as binaural recordings.
   
   
   
[size=13pt]My text again …[/size]

 These confusions were definitely apparent on all tested games and media and even on the 5.1 surround demo posted near the top of this thread.  Regarding this demo.  I first played the 5.1 demo blind folded and attempted to pick the sound directions through out.
   
[size=10pt]The result was I was completely clueless to any sound direction.  I was completely astounded when playing the demo with my eyes open that the surround effect had been turned on and off for comparison during the demo because I was not even able to pick this had happened.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]My conclusion is simulated surround through stereo head phones does not work for FPS gaming and is not worth getting for watching movies and music as there is no DTS support for Blu ray.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I found my own conclusion surprising considering I only purchased these devices due to online youtube reviews where the reviewer appears to experiencing accurate surround sound.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I will leave the ultimate test upon to you but I strongly suggest you try a blind test to convince yourself one way or the other.[/size]
  (A blind test means no visual clues allowed).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sending my Rev 3. HE-400 back. Can't stand the highs and as I told people - velour doesn't help.


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





> *Sound localization in the median plane (front, above, back, below)* [size=10.0pt]The human outer ear[/size], i.e. the structures of the pinna and the external ear canal, form direction-selective filters. Depending on the sound input direction in the median plane, different filter resonances become active. These resonances implant direction-specific patterns into the frequency responses of the ears, which can be evaluated by the auditory system(directional bands) for vertical sound localization. Together with other direction-selective reflections at the head, shoulders and torso, they form the outer ear transfer functions.
> [size=10.0pt]These patterns in the ear's frequency responses[/size] are highly individual, depending on the shape and size of the outer ear. If sound is presented through headphones, and has been recorded via another head with different-shaped outer ear surfaces, the directional patterns differ from the listener's own, and problems will appear when trying to evaluate directions in the median plane with these foreign ears. As a consequence, front–back permutations or inside-the-head-localization can appear when listening to dummy head recordings,or otherwise referred to as binaural recordings.


 
   
  This is why we need devices such as Realizer A8 to accurately calibrate the frequency responses.  Basically it needs to take 2 measurements:
  1st is measuring home theater room frequency responses,
  2nd it needs to measure headphone frequency responses (they're using microphones that you insert to your ear).
   
  Then the device knows EXACTLY how to modify the sound coming from x location (center/ FL / FR / RL / RR ) to convince you that you're in a real home theater.
   
  I just don't get why there has only been 1 device that does this for years now.  And there has barely been any improvement on that product AND it still costs an arm and a leg.
  Is it patented or something? ... considering this is a very simple method... I highly doubt it.... then again Apple patented rounded edge and black....
   
  If I had to guess, the licensing for Dolby Digital and DTS tech is the main hurdle.  If I were the holder of the license, I would not permit such a device to exist cause it would hurt my customers (companies that produces home theater amps, Blu Ray, DVD. etc... a lot of 'paying' customers).
  Thus... no Dolby Digital/DTS input so far for Realizer A8 (as far as I can tell the HDMI input is PCM only, thus you need a AV receiver, Dolby/DTS decoder device, or player that can decode and output surround sound as PCM)
   
  So ... Realizer A8 - expensive cause it's holding some kind of patent and thus basically the ONLY device that does 'proper' surround headphone emulation.
   
  Beyerdynamic Headzone - expensive cause even though it doesn't calibrate to your ear/head and only using generic frequency response template (Dolby Headphone), it is still expensive cause of licensing fees for DTS and Dolby that is jacked up to dissuade this kind of devices from existing.  This kind of generic template approach means that the effect works for some people, while others have varying degree of success due to stark difference of the frequency response curve. (I'm assuming that this is the case with wallyz).
  Although I think if you just play with dolby headphone on all the time, your mind would eventually adjust and basically adapt to recognise directional cues based on the generic template.  The brain is strange that way....
   
  If my assumptions on both product I mentioned above are incorrect,
  someone with enough knowhow should get a kickstarter project on this.
  Initial model should not even need the head tracking stuff.  Most of us would be perfectly content without it, especially if it would lower the cost.
   
  I'm just rambling here... hope no one take offence.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> This is why we need devices such as Realizer A8 to accurately calibrate the frequency responses.  Basically it needs to take 2 measurements:
> 1st is measuring home theater room frequency responses,
> 2nd it needs to measure headphone frequency responses (they're using microphones that you insert to your ear).
> 
> ...


 
  rambling?? maybe just alil lol.  Jk.
   
  A cheaper solution 
   
  Here i said it before the DSS2 would be the best solution if it could be moded to do more just because of the chip thats inside under the hood..
   
  Take a look. if i knew how to program n hack, it would have been done already lol.   http://www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs4970xx_family.html?prodKey=CS4970xx
   
  CS497024
   
http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/manual/DSP_Composer_UM6.pdf
   
   
  The manual skim through it check it out..Cirrus logi'c control panel for manufactures to model diff parameters inside of their software to control their dsp's and in real time.This is done via  a evaluation module/board hooked up to a pc or a standalone daughter card  that can be used i think on dsp's that are already in circuit.. Unfurtunately its  500.00.for the EVM
   
  Interfacing something similar thru  usb would be cool " a hack".. If you know of  someone that could do it lets get it done i'm onboard


----------



## NamelessPFG

I recall someone linking a project that basically constructed personalized HRTFs just with three images of the user's head: their face and sides. It seems to look at the overall head size and shape along with the ear size and shape, and calculate based on those.
   
  While it would require some fiddling with a camera, it's still a long shot better than generic HRTFs used by most binaural mixing technologies. It also means you're not inherently limited to a set speaker system and room acoustics like the Smyth Realizer (which should be noted that they call their calibrated recordings PRIRs and not HRTFs precisely because of all the added variables in the speaker system and the room).


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I recall someone linking a project that basically constructed personalized HRTFs just with three images of the user's head: their face and sides. It seems to look at the overall head size and shape along with the ear size and shape, and calculate based on those.
> 
> While it would require some fiddling with a camera, it's still a long shot better than generic HRTFs used by most binaural mixing technologies. It also means you're not inherently limited to a set speaker system and room acoustics like the Smyth Realizer (which should be noted that they call their calibrated recordings PRIRs and not HRTFs precisely because of all the added variables in the speaker system and the room).


 
  how much where and does it work better than the products that are out now? find it i would like to try it out


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





i95north said:


> how much where and does it work better than the products that are out now? find it i would like to try it out


 
   
  There are two problems with that...
   
  -First of all, I don't even remember where it was posted! Could be this thread, could be my PC gaming audio guide thread.
   
  -Second, and much more importantly, it was more of a proof-of-concept/research/theory presentation sort of thing, not an actual end-user product. It could form the basis of end-user binaural HRTF mixing products later, but as of now, I don't know of an end product that actually works that way.


----------



## Mjonir

Hi everyone,

 I've been hesitating for months over headphones in the 100-150€ (120/185$) range to replace my Steelseries Siberia v1. However the audio world is quite new to me, and I'd really appreciate an advice to get me started 

 - I'd use them mainly for movies and music (on PC) and regularly for PC gaming and Xbox 360 gaming. I already own the Steelseries "Spectrum Audio Mixer" so Xbox connectivity is not an issue.
 - I use my headphones a lot, so comfort is very important, circumaural only.
 - I don't think I have a very good PC soundcard. I'm using the "Supreme FX II" which came on my ASUS motherboard and supports 5.1 out through 3.5mm jacks (EDIT: Windows allows me to turn on virtual surround, so it means this card supports it too). My motherboard also has an optical out (SPDIF) port.

 I also have a Steelseries USB soundcard which can give me 7.1 virtual surround, but I don't think it's really good either. The "Supreme FX II" with Windows' virtual surround on sounds better to me.


 From reading this guide, I think I'm going to buy the "Tritton AX 720+" in order to have the nice and convenient decoder and a decent headset. However I have a few questions and hope you can help me out:

 - Is buying the Tritton 720 only for the decoder worth it considering what I already own, in which case I could buy something like the DT770 right now?
 - I've read about some hissing with the 720 decoder. Considering I'll be watching movies with it, is it really intrusive or can it be disregarded?
 - Since it's mostly the PC that matters to me, would it be that much better if I dropped the Xbox compatibility and invested in a proper PC sound card + headphones? In other words, is investing in a PC soundcard much better than the 720 decoder?
 - If I were to, at a later date, upgrade to other headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro and plug them in the 720 decoder, would it work properly? (I've read that the DT770 would absolutely need an amp, would the 720 decoder suffice?)


 Thanks a huge lot in advance, I'm really going crazy choosing this


----------



## ruuku

mjonir said:


> *SNIP*
> Tritton 720 only for the decoder worth it considering what I already own, in which case I could buy something like the DT770 right now?
> *Depends on how much you want 5.1 on the Xbox. Since you have the Steel Series Mixer already, you could just route a mic through the mixer, and use a cheaper unit like the DSS/Recon to get 5.1 out of the Xbox. The main reason for going with the AX720/Mixamp is to allow voice chat plus the decoder. The 770s would be a great deal more capable headphone in comparison to the AX720, and if you're not too concerned with Xbox gaming, would be a much better choice.*
> 
> ...




My replies in bold...hope this helps.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> I've been hesitating for months over headphones in the 100-150€ (120/185$) range to replace my Steelseries Siberia v1. However the audio world is quite new to me, and I'd really appreciate an advice to get me started
> - I'd use them mainly for movies and music (on PC) and regularly for PC gaming and Xbox 360 gaming. I already own the Steelseries "Spectrum Audio Mixer" so Xbox connectivity is not an issue.
> - I use my headphones a lot, so comfort is very important, circumaural only.
> - I don't think I have a very good PC soundcard. I'm using the "Supreme FX II" which came on my ASUS motherboard and supports 5.1 out through 3.5mm jacks (EDIT: Windows allows me to turn on virtual surround, so it means this card supports it too). My motherboard also has an optical out (SPDIF) port.
> ...


 
  Any chance you could add your location to your community profile?
   
  What model Asus motherboard is it?
   
  Technical Pro HPT990 (Takstar Hi2050) headphones
  Asus Xonar DG sound card
  In the USA this combo would cost me $75.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All I see is complaints that virtual surround doesn't work for certain people. Unfortunate for you, but its easily discernible for me. Incredibly easy. I was watching a DVD movie yesterday and positional cues were top notch. 

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work. Some people just aren't compatible with virtual surround. However, a lot of people are, which is why these things are still sold.

Dolby Headphone, THX Tru Studio, the Headzone's virtual surround, ALL worked really well, and were able to give a convincing surround effect, including front/back (though THX was the weakest).

As mentioned a million times, all games aren't created equal, nor movies.

Do yourselves a favor and download the Resident Evil 6 demo and do Leon's story. Kill a zombie, and once the body is in a puddled and bubbling, turn around (with some distance) and tell me its hard to tell where the sound is coming from. I call bullsh*t.

All this blind testing is useless, as your eyes are important to associate where sounds are coming from, relative to your position on screen. All the testing in the world won't make Black Ops sound good until you're actually in the middle of the action, and not trying to intently focus on where sounds are coming from. They come to you naturally.

Almost no game has good virtual surround when you sit there trying to cause the positional cues. It works best when its an extension of what's happening around you as you play, not when you are trying hard to get picture perfect cues for testing. 

I've had a similar experience with testing Valkyrie Profile 2's sound test, where you can adjust where the speakers are. The game is Pro Logic II enabled. In these sound tests, because its controlled, it doesn't sound convincing. However, when I play the game, the cues are perfect.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> My replies in bold...hope this helps.


 
   
  It does! 
   
  In case I go this route, do you have any DSS you would recommend?
   
  Wouldn't double amping introduce noise problems, or is it really a viable method?
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Any chance you could add your location to your community profile?
> 
> What model Asus motherboard is it?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry I can't edit my community profile. I think it's because I don't have enough posts yet? Anyway, I come from Belgium.
   
  I have the "Rampage Formula" motherboard: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/Rampage_Formula/
   
  I know that there are some cheap Xonar sound cards starting at 30€, but last time I asked the 180€ model was suggested. I can read the difference in numbers, but I honestly have no idea what they mean in practice and how much I should invest to scale well with headphones such as the DT770. Could you suggest any documentation on which sound card to choose?


----------



## ruuku

Double amping has garnered a pretty bad reputation, but in personal usage there is no problem with it with either the Astro mixamp nor AX720 DB. It was discussed earlier in the thread, and there are also other threads on Head-Fi that look into DA much more in-depth. 

The DSS is Turtle Beach's own decoder, but if you were looking for a recommendation on general decoders, I would highly reccomend an Astro Mixamp pro (wired version) especially if you're worried about static/line noise. Although both the AX720 and Mixamp are wiried, the Mixamp has a much cleaner presentation when it comes to audible white noise. The trade off for this of course it that it is the most expensive of the decoder boxes.

On another note...
Been playing Boarderlands 2 and RE6 on 360, and I must say that the 5.1 audio on both these games is impressive, but on BL2 The side/rear channels are unusually loud especially with NPC dialogue. Positional audio is also pretty bad, I hear a shot that sounds point-blank from my sides, but the enemy is actually quite a bit away from me. 

On RE6 it seems like they ramped up the difficulty quite a bit... I haven't died this much in a RE game since the first one (1st run through normal difficulty). With 5 possiable playthroughs and the optional modes it seems like this will take a while to fully complete. I'm not too sure that I like the skill system vs. upgrading guns though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To anyone interested in the MMX300 (DT770 32ohm with built in mic), they are going for $200 used on Amazon, and less than $300 new. That's actually a really good price, compared to what they used to be. I'm half tempted.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> - Is buying the Tritton 720 only for the decoder worth it considering what I already own, in which case I could buy something like the DT770 right now?
> - I've read about some hissing with the 720 decoder. Considering I'll be watching movies with it, is it really intrusive or can it be disregarded?
> - Since it's mostly the PC that matters to me, would it be that much better if I dropped the Xbox compatibility and invested in a proper PC sound card + headphones? In other words, is investing in a PC soundcard much better than the 720 decoder?
> - If I were to, at a later date, upgrade to other headphones like the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro and plug them in the 720 decoder, would it work properly? (I've read that the DT770 would absolutely need an amp, would the 720 decoder suffice?)


 
   
  Not when you can get an AX720 decoder box for just US$50...but if you live in Belgium, international shipping costs may be an issue, not to mention whether the seller will even be willing to ship internationally or not.
   
  As for hissing, I can't say for the AX720 specifically, and it doesn't help that it's been radically revised several times. If you want to be sure that hissing is kept to a minimum, you'll have to shell out for the Astro Mixamp Pro...if not something even more expensive.
   
  For PC gaming, I'd definitely advise just getting a sound card. Better audio quality and more gaming audio features at lower cost. My usual US$45 X-Fi Titanium recommendation wouldn't exactly work out for Belgian buyers, but if you're willing to pay international shipping (which should be pretty cheap, around US$10) on top of the cost of the card itself, I could order and ship it for you.
   
  If you don't want to go through that hassle, I hope the Xonar DG's closer to the 30 Euro end of the scale...
   
  Finally, as for the AX720 decoder box's amplification abilities, the only headphones that will _not work at all whatsoever_ are electrostatics (generally Stax), due to their principle of operation. More conventional dynamic or orthodynamic/planar-magnetic driver designs will work to varying degrees of effectiveness, though you probably won't get the full benefit using the AX720 alone.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All I see is complaints that virtual surround doesn't work for certain people. Unfortunate for you, but its easily discernible for me. Incredibly easy. I was watching a DVD movie yesterday and positional cues were top notch.
> Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work. Some people just aren't compatible with virtual surround. However, a lot of people are, which is why these things are still sold.
> Dolby Headphone, THX Tru Studio, the Headzone's virtual surround, ALL worked really well, and were able to give a convincing surround effect, including front/back (though THX was the weakest).
> As mentioned a million times, all games aren't created equal, nor movies.
> ...


 
   
  I've noticed similar results myself, in that being able to see what's on-screen seems to help with the psychoacoustics of it all.
   
  Yet a good binaural surround technology will still allow me to distinguish front and rear with ease, which could easily mean the difference between, say, someone in front of me that's obscured by a wall (thus, I still can't see that person) and someone behind me. It could just be that our own HRTFs fit the human average, or at least whatever HRTFs are used in particular with CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, THX TruStudio Surround, etc. well enough for the effects to work as intended. I'm certainly thankful for that!
   
  And, yes, choice of source material is extremely important. Some games just have piss-poor positional audio (Battlefield: Bad Company 2 and the original releases of Serious Sam: TFE and TSE come to mind), and it may not be immediately apparent until you play a game that does do positional audio right.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To anyone interested in the MMX300 (DT770 32ohm with built in mic), they are going for $200 used on Amazon, and less than $300 new.


 
   
  About time.  Loosen up that MSRP Beyer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tempted on selling my NFB5, HE400, and getting the MMX300 and DT990/32 and calling it a day. Downgrading and shifting priorities.


----------



## NamelessPFG

And I was hoping to audition that HE-400 one day...
   
  Too bad I can't afford it. Not without giving up my Stax.


----------



## tokendog

Thanks MLE for the great thread.  It's an awesome effort and contribution.  I've read through it a few times and enjoy your updates / insight.
   
  As to what I can contribute:
   
  I currently have the LCD-2s as my primary headphone, as well as the HD-800s, the Beyer T1s, and the MrSpeakers Mad Dogs.
   
  I have used the LCD-2s, the HD-800s, and the Mad Dogs for online FPS gaming.  The games include Planetside 2, BF3, CS Source, etc.
   
  In my experience, with my setup, I have observed the following:
   
  The LCD-2s are not suitable for FPS by any standard.  Yes, the explosions sound amazing.  The sound is GREAT.  However, the sound stage is all over the place.  You can hear foot steps in places where NO ONE can be (such as in the ocean).  It jumbles it all together and there is no sense of separation in the position of the individual sounds.  You will not be able to predict where the opponent is coming from or where that shot was fired from.  I had no luck with this on ANY game.  That's my experience.
   
  The Mad Dogs seem to do better at positional audio for games - for some odd reason, but are by no means something I would rely on in terms of using audio to determine the location of my enemies.
   
  The HD-800s are like hitting ` then typing audio godmode.  These things place the sounds PRECISELY where the opponent is - and they do it on a large scale.  You can EASILY locate several opponents all at once at various locations around you.  You can position yourself in a building and hear opponents above you, beside you, running outside in multiple directions, etc. and actually count the amount of opponents and judge the direction each opponent is heading.  Of course you have to focus your brain on accomplishing that task, but that's not the fault of the head phone.  The headphone provides the information and you have to be able to interpret it.  Once you learn to process that information the HD-800s are providing you, you have a definite advantage over your opponent.  There have been MULTIPLE times in games like BF3 (which I've read doesn't have the best positional audio, but does have GREAT audio quality) where I've been in a close quarter combat situation and been able to stop, listen, determine the location of multiple opponents, and proceed to take each of them out one by one, all the while judging their movements as they hear me killing their allies, and myself being able to adjust to that based simply on the sounds of them moving around me through the walls, hearing their footsteps, their ammo reloads, their shuffling around, etc.
   
  It's awesome.  I have the Q701s on order and they should be here this coming Thursday.  I'm excited to see how they compare against the HD-800s.
   
  Just wanted to provide my experience, but yeah.  If you already have the HD-800s for music then definitely use them for gaming.  It's just a HUGE added bonus to these cans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I've heard the HD800s are just awe-inspiring for gaming.

Are you using virtual surround, or just stereo? I don't like gaming in stereo whatsoever, so I'm interested in seeing how you're gaming.

I don't wanna give up the HE400, but I'm quite broke, and my next position is paying me even less. I'm gonna be tight until I find a better job.


----------



## Chawanwit

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I've heard the HD800s are just awe-inspiring for gaming.
> Are you using virtual surround, or just stereo? I don't like gaming in stereo whatsoever, so I'm interested in seeing how you're gaming.
> I don't wanna give up the HE400, but I'm quite broke, and my next position is paying me even less. I'm gonna be tight until I find a better job.


 
  Hope you find a better job soon!


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I've heard the HD800s are just awe-inspiring for gaming.
> Are you using virtual surround, or just stereo? I don't like gaming in stereo whatsoever, so I'm interested in seeing how you're gaming.
> I don't wanna give up the HE400, but I'm quite broke, and my next position is paying me even less. I'm gonna be tight until I find a better job.


 
  Why would the next position be on a lower wage?  In any case, good luck with that.  
   
  Keep smiling, and the world will smile at you.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Tempted on selling my NFB5, HE400, and getting the MMX300 and DT990/32 and calling it a day. Downgrading and shifting priorities.


 
   
  Try out that Philips first!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> It's awesome.  I have the Q701s on order and they should be here this coming Thursday.  I'm excited to see how they compare against the HD-800s.


 
   
   
  You _already_ have HD800s, but you're now getting Q701s?  
   
  Why?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Contract security. Pay is based on a site by site basis. I'm basically getting paid less than when I started with the company 8 years ago. Rather not think about at the moment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Try out that Philips first!




You're beginning to think like me. That is precisely what I'm waiting on. Hoping to see frequency curves and more impressions. Its those or the DT990s. I love the HE400, but I don't wanna be constantly tethered to the E17 for the subtle bass boost I want. I guess I'm more of a basshead than I'd like to admit. 

The HE400 sounds perfectly fine in bass, but I guess I personally prefer more presence. Having the 990/32 next to it, I was just fine with it. I can live with less fidelity, and more of my personal taste in tonal balance.

The issue with the X1 is that the Fidelio line isn't sold here, so I'd have to import. We'll see.

I heard they're quite bassy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of Philips, I should _finally_ be getting that CitiScape Uptown come Wednesday. Then I can put it through its paces as a reasonably affordable headphone for those who need isolation.
   
  As for the Fidelio lineup...too expensive, as in "used Stax expensive".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Putting my NFB-5 up for sale if anyone is interested in a fantastic DAC+AMP. The only downside being it doesn't have analog inputs, so you can't hook it up to something like the Mixamp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





tokendog said:


> Thanks MLE for the great thread.  It's an awesome effort and contribution.  I've read through it a few times and enjoy your updates / insight.
> 
> As to what I can contribute:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I have the same experience. Now if you try CMSS-3D with OpenAL/EAX/DS3D then the experience with the HD800 is godly and full of superlatives. The same goes for movies, only T1 and T90 come closer. The only thing I miss from LCD-2 is the bass, anything else the HD800 does better for me.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Not when you can get an AX720 decoder box for just US$50...but if you live in Belgium, international shipping costs may be an issue, not to mention whether the seller will even be willing to ship internationally or not.


 
   
  Yes, I don't think I can easily get the decoder box alone. At least I don't know any website selling it 
   
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> For PC gaming, I'd definitely advise just getting a sound card. Better audio quality and more gaming audio features at lower cost. My usual US$45 X-Fi Titanium recommendation wouldn't exactly work out for Belgian buyers, but if you're willing to pay international shipping (which should be pretty cheap, around US$10) on top of the cost of the card itself, I could order and ship it for you.


 
   
  I looked around and only saw a "X-FI Titanium" for 77€ (105$) and "X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty" for 110€ (140$).
   
  I see that these cards have an optical in. Could I take the audio from my Xbox 360 through optical and use that sound card to decode it? I wouldn't have to drop that Xbox compatibility this way 
   
  I also saw some Xtrem Audio for much cheaper (40/65€ (50/80$) depending on the model), but they were not recommended in your PC guide. There is also a Recon3D for 85€ (110$), I don't know what it's worth?
   
  Looks like even with international shipping, I'd be paying at least double the price to buy it here, so I'm definitely interested if you know a way to get it this cheap ^^'
   
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> If you don't want to go through that hassle, I hope the Xonar DG's closer to the 30 Euro end of the scale...


 
   
  Yes, I can get one for 28€ (36$). Here's a good reference for what I can get in Xonar (in French, but sound card names are the same ): http://www.ldlc.be/informatique/piece/carte-son-interne/c4692/p1e48t3o0a1.html


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Yes, I don't think I can easily get the decoder box alone. At least I don't know any website selling it
> 
> I looked around and only saw a "X-FI Titanium" for 77€ (105$) and "X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty" for 110€ (140$).
> 
> ...


 
   
  It wouldn't hurt to at least ask that seller here on the forums if he'll ship it out to Belgium. Who knows? You might still get a pretty good deal out of it.
   
  Unfortunately, using PCs with sound cards that have S/PDIF inputs to act as headphone surround processors for consoles has proven to be impractical, as several people have already tried. The main problem is that they're meant to take stereo PCM signals only, not encoded Dolby Digital or DTS streams.
   
  You can probably thank the MPAA and RIAA for that, the same groups that thought putting HDCP on HDMI and generally making things inconvenient for end users is a good idea. Seems like there's this SCMS flag for S/PDIF Dolby Digital and DTS sources that works similarly to HDCP in that if the other end isn't compliant, you either get silence or a downgraded (in this case, stereo PCM) signal.
   
  As I offered before, if you want that X-Fi hardware at anywhere near US prices, I'll order it and ship it to you if you can cover the costs.
   
  On the flip side, you have reasonably priced Xonar DG cards in your area. You'd lose out where DirectSound3D, OpenAL, and EAX support are concerned relative to proper X-Fi hardware, but they're still very capable cards for the price. I'll let you decide how to spend your money.


----------



## wmf

yes great thread MLE, many thanks ...
   
  whats your take on the HD650s for gaming ?.
   
  im currently using either the D7000s, /or the Dt990s for FPS /and gaming in general  ...


----------



## Mikesin

Definitely waiting for this review  
 Should of got the K702 though, would probably be a better test. Where the Q701 adds a touch of bass (from what i've read) and can hide footsteps etc.
  Quote: 





tokendog said:


> The HD-800s are like hitting ` then typing audio godmode.  These things place the sounds PRECISELY where the opponent is - and they do it on a large scale.  You can EASILY locate several opponents all at once at various locations around you.  You can position yourself in a building and hear opponents above you, beside you, running outside in multiple directions, etc. and actually count the amount of opponents and judge the direction each opponent is heading.  Of course you have to focus your brain on accomplishing that task, but that's not the fault of the head phone.  The headphone provides the information and you have to be able to interpret it.  Once you learn to process that information the HD-800s are providing you, you have a definite advantage over your opponent.  There have been MULTIPLE times in games like BF3 (which I've read doesn't have the best positional audio, but does have GREAT audio quality) where I've been in a close quarter combat situation and been able to stop, listen, determine the location of multiple opponents, and proceed to take each of them out one by one, all the while judging their movements as they hear me killing their allies, and myself being able to adjust to that based simply on the sounds of them moving around me through the walls, hearing their footsteps, their ammo reloads, their shuffling around, etc.
> 
> It's awesome.  I have the Q701s on order and they should be here this coming Thursday.  I'm excited to see how they compare against the HD-800s.
> 
> Just wanted to provide my experience, but yeah.  If you already have the HD-800s for music then definitely use them for gaming.  It's just a HUGE added bonus to these cans.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Definitely waiting for this review
> Should of got the K702 though, would probably be a better test. Where the Q701 adds a touch of bass (from what i've read) and can hide footsteps etc.


 
  Will do.
   
  I went Q701 mainly based on MLE review of them AND the big factor that I have an accommodation with my work that gives me the Q701s at a nice discount - otherwise I would have went with or at least tried out the K series.


----------



## widdyjudas

Finally tested the he400 rev3 and dt990 pro 250 ohm. Impression so far based on my ear, sorry if its not the same like you all.
Comfort wise the 990 pro is almost the same as the 770 pro, just clamp harder a little. If the 770 is 10/10, the 990 is 9.5/10.
The he 400 clamp is surprisingly comfy, less than the 650 but just a bit more than the 990. Too bad its heavy. However, the weight is not major issue to me. At least the cup is bigger than my ear, unlike the m50. 8.5/10 for the comfort.
Sound, I cant describe it as detailed as the pro here, but here is mine.
First he400, 1st I notice is the treble, its even more than my m50. Bass is powerfull too, just a bit more than the m50. The vocal and instrument are forward and clear, with good details.
Dt990, treble and bass are over emphasized, but the vocal and instrument seems more laid back and got less details. The sound is faster than hifiman, but still the 650 is the slowest of 3. Soundstage is wide, but the he400 got a decent amount too.
While the he 400 seems brighter on my ear, but i find the 990 is more tiring. Probably because the over bass and treble?
Conclusion, i just ordered the he400 and velour pad. Must wait 10 days, since its national holidays for a week here in hk and china. 650 while tempting, but its just too much more investment for me compared the he400.
Funny thing is the chinese name for hifiman, 真男人 or true gentleman...
Cant wait for it. Will be the longest 10 days. Hope it can satisfy my gaming and music need.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of Philips, I should _finally_ be getting that CitiScape Uptown come Wednesday. Then I can put it through its paces as a reasonably affordable headphone for those who need isolation.
> 
> As for the Fidelio lineup...too expensive, as in "used Stax expensive".


 
  Please give us your impressions of the Uptown's when you get them. They were down to $40 for a while on slickdeals which is like 73% off (they started at $150). I was going to try these out as my first serious cans since I'm using a free pair of HD 435 atm. They got a pretty good review from Manveru (Head-Fi Linky), just make sure that you leave the volume slider at full and adjust volume at the source.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Hey again my HD558's arn't here yet, but I want to know will a headphone amp like the fiio E6 work with consoles?
  I use this steelseries cross platform audio mixer to use headphones for consoles, but I hear a hiss on higher volumes and its pretty annoying
   
  Also sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this. I did not think it was worth making a whole thread for.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Contract security. Pay is based on a site by site basis. I'm basically getting paid less than when I started with the company 8 years ago. Rather not think about at the moment.


 
   
  Have you tried to apply for a license to carry? When you have those with security based jobs the pay you get is always higher. The trade off is that the jobs that require those licenses are harder to get.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Hey again my HD558's arn't here yet, but I want to know will a headphone amp like the fiio E6 work with consoles?
> I use this steelseries cross platform audio mixer to use headphones for consoles, but I hear a hiss on higher volumes and its pretty annoying
> 
> Also sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this. I did not think it was worth making a whole thread for.




I used my FiiO E5, along with RCA to 3.5mm/headphone/P2 adapters, to play my Xbox 360 with headphones for a long time. It works, but you need to buy separate adapters (the E6 wasn't made to hook up to the 360), and I would Recommend at least a small step-up in amp quality to better match with your HD 558, and not be useless down the road (barely use the E5 now, E6 is very similar to this amp).

A better amp need not be majorly expensive - you can get a FiiO E11 or similar for $60, and in the long run it will still be useful and a distinct advantage while the E6 mostly helps boost volume.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fa11ou7 said:


> Please give us your impressions of the Uptown's when you get them. They were down to $40 for a while on slickdeals which is like 73% off (they started at $150). I was going to try these out as my first serious cans since I'm using a free pair of HD 435 atm. They got a pretty good review from Manveru (Head-Fi Linky), just make sure that you leave the volume slider at full and adjust volume at the source.


 
   
  But of course! Why wouldn't I give impressions of anything I buy?
   
  Unfortunately, I missed the initial $40 Slickdeals mention, but then saw the 1SaleADay offer for $65 shipped, did some quick Googling, and found that it was still the lowest price around at the time, so I bit the bullet. Took them over a week to ship it, but they eventually did.
   
  Everything I've been reading about them suggests that they're at least a decent closed, isolating headphone for the money, if you don't mind the poor in-line volume control. (I wonder if anyone's cracked that little part open specifically to bypass the crude potentiometer they put in there with a little wiring...


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Unfortunately, using PCs with sound cards that have S/PDIF inputs to act as headphone surround processors for consoles has proven to be impractical, as several people have already tried. The main problem is that they're meant to take stereo PCM signals only, not encoded Dolby Digital or DTS streams.
> 
> You can probably thank the MPAA and RIAA for that, the same groups that thought putting HDCP on HDMI and generally making things inconvenient for end users is a good idea. Seems like there's this SCMS flag for S/PDIF Dolby Digital and DTS sources that works similarly to HDCP in that if the other end isn't compliant, you either get silence or a downgraded (in this case, stereo PCM) signal.


 
   
  Damn, why is it so hard to get hardware that does everything it's supposed to ^^'
   
  I guess I'll have to drop the Xbox compatibility for good, or buy TurtleBeach's DSS2 later.
   
   
   
  Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> As I offered before, if you want that X-Fi hardware at anywhere near US prices, I'll order it and ship it to you if you can cover the costs.
> 
> On the flip side, you have reasonably priced Xonar DG cards in your area. You'd lose out where DirectSound3D, OpenAL, and EAX support are concerned relative to proper X-Fi hardware, but they're still very capable cards for the price. I'll let you decide how to spend your money.


   
  One thing I overlooked comparing costs is that when shipping from outside EU there are important customs fees. I checked and the difference in price wouldn't probably be worth it, but thanks a lot for the offer.
   
  I'm really ready to invest on the sound card since I'll be keeping it a long while, so I wouldn't like to miss on those capabilities.
   
   
  One last question to be sure before I'm decided: Will the X-Fi Titanium be enough to drive to DT770 80ohm to full capacity? What about the 250ohm version?
   
  Also if somebody knows: If I'm to buy TurtleBeach's DSS2: Does it amp enough or will I need to add a second amp on this?
   
   
  Thanks again, I couldn't have done this alone


----------



## NamelessPFG

A DT770, direct from a sound card?
   
  You could try it without a dedicated amp to start with, but I'd definitely consider setting aside some money for an Objective2 amp or something else along those lines if you're going to be driving it directly from an X-Fi card.


----------



## Mjonir

Hm, I can't find that reference in any of my usual shops. Is it a unique product I really should get, or is there an equivalent?


----------



## NamelessPFG

The Objective2, you mean? It's just a headphone amp that's been getting a lot of attention lately.
   
JDS Labs sells fully-assembled ones, but I don't know if they ship outside the US.
   
  Prior to that, the go-to recommendation for a desktop amp was usually the FiiO E9. I'm not sure if that's still the case.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Hm, I can't find that reference in any of my usual shops. Is it a unique product I really should get, or is there an equivalent?


 
  Any chance you could add your location to your community profile?
   
  Possible places that might stock the O2

 YoYoDyne Consulting (Canada)
 JDS Labs (USA)
 Epiphany Acoustics (UK)
 Head-N-HiFi (Switzerland)
 Audio Poutine (Canada Facebook Page)
  Sometimes they are for sale on eBay and sometimes in the Head-fi thread "Amplifiers for Sale"


----------



## saladin

If I am going to be using the SB X-fi titanium with any of these headphones, do I need a mixamp or anything like that?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I used my FiiO E5, along with RCA to 3.5mm/headphone/P2 adapters, to play my Xbox 360 with headphones for a long time. It works, but you need to buy separate adapters (the E6 wasn't made to hook up to the 360), and I would Recommend at least a small step-up in amp quality to better match with your HD 558, and not be useless down the road (barely use the E5 now, E6 is very similar to this amp).
> A better amp need not be majorly expensive - you can get a FiiO E11 or similar for $60, and in the long run it will still be useful and a distinct advantage while the E6 mostly helps boost volume.


 
  So the FiiO E11 works with consoles fine?(I use both PS3 and 360). And just how much will the performance improve with the HD 558's useing a good amp?
   
  Also is the astro mixamp worth the money?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





saladin said:


> If I am going to be using the SB X-fi titanium with any of these headphones, do I need a mixamp or anything like that?


 
   
  You don't need the Mixamp because the X-Fi cards are already quite capable of providing headphone surround with CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  If you're talking about the amp aspect of the Mixamp and not the DAC/DSP part, then you have better options.
   
  Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> So the FiiO E11 works with consoles fine?(I use both PS3 and 360). And just how much will the performance improve with the HD 558's useing a good amp?
> 
> Also is the astro mixamp worth the money?


 
   
  Can't speak on how much the HD558 will or won't improve with an amp, but the Mixamp Pro is generally the benchmark Dolby Headphone processor around here. Still in production, good enough audio quality for gaming, and provides chat mixing.
   
  The important thing is that you're getting Dolby Headphone and not just plain stereo.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





saladin said:


> If I am going to be using the SB X-fi titanium with any of these headphones, do I need a mixamp or anything like that?


 
  SB X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) does all the things the Mix-amp. does.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Can't speak on how much the HD558 will or won't improve with an amp, but the Mixamp Pro is generally the benchmark Dolby Headphone processor around here. Still in production, good enough audio quality for gaming, and provides chat mixing.
> 
> The important thing is that you're getting Dolby Headphone and not just plain stereo.


 
  I don't really care about chat, I just wonder if it's worth the price for Dolby Headphone and surround sound.(I never used ether myself).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case, the HD558 won't scale with amping, so its better to get something like the Mixamp.

The E5/E6 are very weak amps to begin with. They're not much amps as they are slight volume boosters.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





wmf said:


> yes great thread MLE, many thanks ...
> 
> whats your take on the HD650s for gaming ?.
> 
> im currently using either the D7000s, /or the Dt990s for FPS /and gaming in general  ...


 
   
  D7000 and DT990 should be better for gaming then HD650.  I would stick with what you already have.


----------



## saladin

Thanks for the answer guys.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The Objective2, you mean? It's just a headphone amp that's been getting a lot of attention lately.
> 
> JDS Labs sells fully-assembled ones, but I don't know if they ship outside the US.
> 
> Prior to that, the go-to recommendation for a desktop amp was usually the FiiO E9. I'm not sure if that's still the case.


 
   
  Damn, exploding my budget again 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Any chance you could add your location to your community profile?


 
   
  I couldn't last time you asked, but now it's done 
   
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Possible places that might stock the O2
> 
> YoYoDyne Consulting (Canada)
> JDS Labs (USA)
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks! looks like Epiphany Acoustics will be cheaper/easier for me.
   
   
   
   
  So, I guess I'll buy the DT770 80ohm + X-Fi Titanium, and then see if I really need an amp or not.
   
  The question is thus: How will I know if I really need the amp? Does it only affects the maximum volume, or does it also affects sound quality at the same volume?
   
  Sorry for the silly question, but I'm still a newbie and keep reading contradictory information everywhere ^^'


----------



## saladin

Ok, ok. One more question! Since I am on a budget ($150 MAX, and that's pushing it), should I go with the AD700 or the Creative Aruvana live. I'm mainly going to use the headphones for gaming and listening to music (many different genres). These will be hooked up to my X-fi titanium. Thanks again.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mjonir* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Damn, exploding my budget again
> I couldn't last time you asked, but now it's done
> Thanks! looks like Epiphany Acoustics will be cheaper/easier for me.
> ...


 
  I'm going to guess the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm should do at least decently well plugged into the TiHD.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> So, I guess I'll buy the DT770 80ohm + X-Fi Titanium, and then see if I really need an amp or not.
> 
> The question is thus: How will I know if I really need the amp? Does it only affects the maximum volume, or does it also affects sound quality at the same volume?
> 
> Sorry for the silly question, but I'm still a newbie and keep reading contradictory information everywhere ^^'


 
   
  Good question. I'd like to know the answer myself; to be frank, I'm not much of an audiophile amp sort of person, and the only reason I'd consider dropping hundreds of dollars on an amp is that my headphones of choice (Stax) require them to work at all.
   
  What I do know, though, is that proper amplification is a matter of _control_ over the headphone drivers, not sheer volume. The thing I don't know is how to tell whether a given headphone is out of control or not due to insufficient amplification.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Thanks! looks like Epiphany Acoustics will be cheaper/easier for me.


 
   
  Just don't get the O2 and the ODAC confused.  This link Epiphany Acoustics (UK) is for the ODAC, not the O2 amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Epiphany Acoustics also sells the O2 for the UK.

 http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/heaphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Just don't get the O2 and the ODAC confused.  This link Epiphany Acoustics (UK) is for the ODAC, not the O2 amp.


 
  I had copied the list from another site, did not check their links before posting.
  try this link.
  http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/our-products/heaphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-audio-headphone-amplifier/


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

So boiled it down to 2 choices. Ether the FiiO E11 or mixamp pro(which I can only get though ebay right now),
  Which of the 2 you thinks worth getting for console use?


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





saladin said:


> Ok, ok. One more question! Since I am on a budget ($150 MAX, and that's pushing it), should I go with the AD700 or the Creative Aruvana live. I'm mainly going to use the headphones for gaming and listening to music (many different genres). These will be hooked up to my X-fi titanium. Thanks again.


 
  Easiest way to decide is: do you plan to use the headphones on the go? At all? If you need any isolation at all, that rules out the AD700.
   
   


mrkingdomhearts said:


> So boiled it down to 2 choices. Ether the FiiO E11 or mixamp pro(which I can only get though ebay right now),
> Which of the 2 you thinks worth getting for console use?


 
  I don't understand the question. Do you need virtual surround and chat, or do you just want to play games in stereo?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> So boiled it down to 2 choices. Ether the FiiO E11 or Mix-amp Pro (which I can only get though eBay right now),
> Which of the 2 you thinks worth getting for console use?


 
  If you want surround sound, get the Miz-amp Pro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp Pro (or any rough equivalent) is the FIRST thing you should be getting for console headphone gaming. Virtual surround adds a whole new layer of immersion, which trumps any audiophile amp that just does stereo.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I don't understand the question. Do you need virtual surround and chat, or do you just want to play games in stereo?


 
  Ah sorry. I don't need chat, but I never listened to surround sound before (Always used stereo) is it worth it for immersing myself into games?


----------



## saladin

Quote: 





saladin said:


> Ok, ok. One more question! Since I am on a budget ($150 MAX, and that's pushing it), should I go with the AD700 or the Creative Aruvana live. I'm mainly going to use the headphones for gaming and listening to music (many different genres). These will be hooked up to my X-fi titanium. Thanks again.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Easiest way to decide is: do you plan to use the headphones on the go? At all? If you need any isolation at all, that rules out the AD70If


 
  If the only factor put into consideration was simply sound quality for Gaming (most genres) and Music (many different genres), which would be best? Thank you.


----------



## Eric_C

mrkingdomhearts: Depends. But you do realise that this entire thread is about gaming with headphones, on virtual surround, right?
   
  It really does depend, though. Do you play 1st-person or 3rd-person games? Those are better with virtual surround. 
  RTS and top-down RPGs, probably not so much.
   
  And what headphones do you have? MixAmp isn't a powerful amp, so depending on the headphones you might still need to buy another amp.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> mrkingdomhearts: Depends. But you do realise that this entire thread is about gaming with headphones, on virtual surround, right?
> 
> It really does depend, though. Do you play 1st-person or 3rd-person games? Those are better with virtual surround.
> RTS and top-down RPGs, probably not so much.
> ...


 
  True lol, I just want to know if its worth the extra price.
   
  I play a mix of most genres I don't really stick myself in just one type.
  For what headphones I'm useing I got the HD558's comeing in the mail in a few days.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 558 will be fine with the Mixamp.

Go to the first page, and listen to that video with headphones. It will give you a rough idea of what to expect (with the times I mentioned).

The 558 should pair up well with the Mixamp and Dolby Headphone in general.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





saladin said:


> If the only factor put into consideration was simply sound quality for Gaming (most genres) and Music (many different genres), which would be best? Thank you.


 
   
  I think you need to find out how the 2 headphones work with the music you listen to. Check the first post, brief descriptions of both headphones' sound signatures are there. Also, lots more threads on AD700 and CAL for music only.
   
   
  Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> True lol, I just want to know if its worth the extra price.
> 
> I play a mix of most genres I don't really stick myself in just one type.
> For what headphones I'm useing I got the HD558's comeing in the mail in a few days.


 
   
  Console, right? Purely single player, never chat? There are some alternatives to the MixAmp listed in the first post.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp Pro (or any rough equivalent) is the FIRST thing you should be getting for console headphone gaming. Virtual surround adds a whole new layer of immersion, which trumps any audiophile amp that just does stereo.


 
  Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Ah sorry. I don't need chat, but I never listened to surround sound before (Always used stereo) is it worth it for immersing myself into games?


 
   
   
  Yes, for gaming virtual surround sound is a huge improvement over stereo for most people.
   
  If you're pairing with the HD558s and are NOT going to be using voice chat, I'd recommend the Ear Force DSS v1.  You can get it cheap too.
   
  The 50 ohm HD558s do a pretty good job of hiding any hiss, and the DSS has a good bass boost and can drive them fine.  It has the exact same surround processing as the mixamps.  (There is a DSS 2, but it has different processing that's probably not as good).
   
  If you DO use voice chat, the mixamp is the way to go.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Are you sure the DSS is worth getting? I checked out a few reviews but I always hear that for surround sound it's pretty underwhelming.
  Though it could be because they use the turtle beach headsets but I can't say for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Most likely paired with crappy headsets. The technology itself is fine. You use it with crap, you get crap.

Again, look at the video on the first post with headphones. The sound is pre-mixed with Dolby Headphone already. It will give you a rough idea of what to expect.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Are you sure the DSS is worth getting? I checked out a few reviews but I always hear that for surround sound it's pretty underwhelming.
> Though it could be because they use the turtle beach headsets but I can't say for sure.


 
   
  Yes, I've owned both versions of the mixamp as well as the DSS.  They all use the same surround sound processing.  The main difference between them is the noise floor.
   
  They will all sound underwhelming if you use them with crappy headphones, and nice if you use them with nice headphones. 
   
  People who buy the DSS are more likely to use them with their Turtle Beach or other crappy headsets.  People who buy the mixamps are more likely to use them with Astros or nicer headphones.  So really, people are reviewing_ their own headphone's ability_ more than the tech itself.
   
  If you handed every reviewer a $300 pair of headphones to review a mixamp or DSS with, they would all be quite pleased with both of them


----------



## genclaymore

Yea alot of times people don't realize that headphones makes the difference with both Dolby headphone and cmss3D headphone as they wonder why it doesn't sound right with their cheap headphones. When both are paired with a good pair of headphones, both tech will work really good.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

DSS it is then, which is good since from what I seen the mixamp is out of stock at the moment lol.


----------



## chroniX

Really having a hard time choosing between DT990 Pro/250 ohms and the Q701's.
   
  I'd be buying the Q701's used for around $200 or get the DT990 Pro for $170 new.
   
  I'm using the X-Fi Titanium HD with CMSS-3D. I don't have an amp, but it's something I would probably pick up in the future (I know neither of these will be at their full potential without an amp).
   
  I'm currently using a Sennheiser HD595 and I actually really like it, I'm just curious how much better headphones can get.
   
  I'm looking for a huge soundstage for gaming and good for music as well. I'm not a bass-head but not opposed to it either.
   
  Oh, and the other option is to possibly get a used DT 990 Premium/250 for $200. 
   
  So the choices are: used Q701, brand new DT990 Pro, or used DT 990 Premium.
   
  Any help would be appreciated! I really can't decide as they all look good to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The used DT990 would be my choice. They'd compliment the Senns nicely.


----------



## chroniX

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The used DT990 would be my choice. They'd compliment the Senns nicely.


 
  Awesome, just out of curiosity, if it were between the DT990 Pro and the Q701, which would be your choice? And is there a huge difference between the DT990 Premiums vs the DT990 Pros?
   
  Edit: Just found out that it's the 32 ohm edition of the DT990 Premiums. Would you still recommend the premiums in this case?
   
  So my choices are now: 
   
  1. AKG Q701 (Used)
  2. DT990 Pro / 250 ohms (Brand New)
  3. DT990 Premium / 32 ohms (Used)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chronix said:


> So my choices are now:
> 
> 1. AKG Q701 (Used)
> 2. DT990 Pro / 250 ohms (Brand New)
> 3. DT990 Premium / 32 ohms (Used)


 
   
  It sort of depends on what type of sound you like and are looking for.  There isn't a "right" answer as to which is best, but maybe for which one _you_ would like the best.
   
  The DT990 premium is "V" shaped as in strong bass and treble.  The DT990 Pro has even stronger bass.  The Q701 is flatter and _slightly_ warm.
   
  I'm not trying to steer you away from the DT990s, but I personally prefer the Q701 over them (for reasons mentioned here > http://www.head-fi.org/t/592630/akg-q701-vs-dt990-600-ohm-comparison-review )
   
   
  Could you list what types of music you listen to and what sound you like?


----------



## chroniX

I listen to all kinds really, here are a few I've listened to lately:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've noted the differences on the first post. Do people even look at my guide? Lol.

Id think the Q701 would be too much like the Senns. The DT990 is very different. I personally prefer the DT990 sound. I think the DT990 Pro has too much bass personally. The Premiums have better bass for me.


----------



## chroniX

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've noted the differences on the first post. Do people even look at my guide? Lol.
> Id think the Q701 would be too much like the Senns. The DT990 is very different. I personally prefer the DT990 sound. I think the DT990 Pro has too much bass personally. The Premiums have better bass for me.


 
  Sorry I actually did read it, I should have been more specific. I meant in my particular situation. I don't ever forsee myself spending a lot of money on an amp....maybe maximum e9 or O2. I'll be using whichever headphone I get with just a titanium hd for awhile though. 
   
  And let's say I do get an amp like the e9, would I be losing out by getting the 32ohm versus the 250?
   
  I know this is blasphemy, but seeing how I will not be getting an amp anytime soon, would your recommendation of the dt990 premium over the q701 still hold true?
   
  Is it possible that any of these new headphones I get will sound worse than my HD595 since I won't be using an amp, or even without an amp it will be an improvement over the 595s?
   
  Sorry for all the questions, it's just they all look like good choices to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you get the O2, it doesn't matter which ohm DT990 you get. They will all work fine, though the 600ohm might like a little more than the O2 or E9 can handle. The E9 will fit best for the 250ohm. The 32ohm is technically not good for it due to the E9's high output impedance.

BTW, I actually prefer the 32ohm, because even an E11 will make them sound great, as well as sounding good off the Titanium HD. They would IMHO, suit you best, and be the cheapest to get to sound great. You can buy it and probably be very happy with it with just your soundcard.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
In your post on the new HE 400 drivers, I don't see anything different in the picture that couldn't be explained by differences in lighting and white balance.

Nameless (and anyone else interested),
The difference in a better amp, even solid state, is of course a diminishing returns kind of thing, and only like 2-4% different between a great amp and cheap. But as you know from your headphones, sometimes that small change may have a much larger value/impact on a great presentation. Things like larger capacitors, clean power supplies, higher S/N ratio, etc all have their effects.

 For example, if an amp doesn't have large enough capacitors, you'd notice things like the first bass notes or drum hits of a track have slam and authority/power, but later in the track that the same deep thrum or bam shares some of it's energy with all the other sounds being produced at the same time, and doesn't have the "juice" to have as much authority or stand apart. Clean PS (big diff between the common switching type vs the less efficient but better performing linear PS of the past) contributes to lower noise floor and background hiss, and so does a high S/N ratio. Higher current and voltage headroom makes a difference that you already know, I believe.

There are other effects to describe too, but basically the little nuances that mark a good/great amp can make the difference on difficult tracks like "Art of Almost" by Wilco between hearing something that sounds on the edge of going off tempo and kind of weird, perhaps overconfident in how cool they think they are to hearing a song that is successfully creative, masterfully walking a fine balance, and eventually "soaring" in the feelings they want to share.

At least, that's the difference I so far have always felt between my built-in iPod or FiiO E5 amp, and powering my AKGs off my receiver. What I've read about amp components lately seems to explain the differences I had been hearing, though of course learning that has taught me since then to appreciate the differences more.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So boiled it down to 2 choices. Ether the FiiO E11 or mixamp pro(which I can only get though ebay right now),
> Which of the 2 you thinks worth getting for console use?



Just to clarify, I don't think you fully understood me. It is relatively simple to adapt a stereo amp such as the E6 or E11 to an Xbox, but the Mixamp is distinctly a different product, because it processes the 5.1 surround sound into a virtual surround for regular stereo headphones. So, the Mixamp (along with the other options listed in Mad's guide) is a DSP for Virtual headphone surround sound + an amp, while the FiiO products mentioned are just amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Mad,
> In your post on the new HE 400 drivers, I don't see anything different in the picture that couldn't be explained by differences in lighting and white balance.




It's actually that color now. The new HE-400 has a sandy yellow plastic (confirmed on the HE-400 thread), as well as the Hifiman representative on Head-fi stating that the HE-400 has been revised with new material for better driver protection or something. Jerg and some others have stated that the new ones sound just a teeny bit brighter.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> It's actually that color now. The new HE-400 has a sandy yellow plastic (confirmed on the HE-400 thread), as well as the Hifiman representative on Head-fi stating that the HE-400 has been revised with new material for better driver protection or something. Jerg and some others have stated that the new ones sound just a teeny bit brighter.




Maybe it's made of a rosin composite now


----------



## Mjonir

Ok I'm decided:
   
  DT770 + Objective2 + Titanium X-Fi + TurtleBeach's DSS2 or Mixamp, I'm exploding my budget and hoping it's worth it 
   
  Last question though: Since I'm sure I'll be buying the Objective2 amp now, should I buy the 80ohm or 250ohm version of the DT770? Which is better?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Ok I'm decided:
> 
> DT770 + Objective2 + Titanium X-Fi + TurtleBeach's DSS2, I'm exploding my budget and hoping it's worth it
> 
> Last question though: Since I'm sure I'll be buying the Objective2 amp now, should I buy the 80ohm or 250ohm version of the DT770? Which is better?


 
  I prefer the sound of my DT770 Pro 250-Ohm over my DT770 Pro 80-Ohm


----------



## saladin

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I think you need to find out how the 2 headphones work with the music you listen to. Check the first post, brief descriptions of both headphones' sound signatures are there. Also, lots more threads on AD700 and CAL for music only.


 
  I have been reading many different opinions and reviews from different sources, but many are contradictory in opinions. From what I understand AD700= open, comfortable, very good soundstage, lacks the "thump" of bass; CAL= closed, good bass, well rounded overall, less soundstage and comfort. Again, I will be using these for gaming ( a lot mmorpgs, rpgs, fps, strategy) and listening to music (many forms of Jazz, old school rap, classical, some techno, oriental music, American music from the 30's 40's 50's, old school RnB). Gosh dang I'm so indecisive....


----------



## genclaymore

I had a Ad700 my self and interesting enough I did use it for Electronic Music as well DnB music. The bass was how can I explain it I guess was soft. It was there but not there. If that makes any sense. My work around for it at the time was me installing a op-amp that added more bass to the sound signature which worked very well too.
   
  But another work around for the AD700 is that some people use the EQ of their music player or sound card settings to add a bit to the bass Freq to do it that way. Or using something that has a bass boost switch on it like one of the cheaper Fiio amps.  But if bass that important to you then the AD700 wouldn't be a good choice,unless you do either of what I mentioned.


----------



## Evshrug

saladin said:


> I have been reading many different opinions and reviews from different sources, but many are contradictory in opinions. From what I understand AD700= open, comfortable, very good soundstage, lacks the "thump" of bass; CAL= closed, good bass, well rounded overall, less soundstage and comfort. Again, I will be using these for gaming ( a lot mmorpgs, rpgs, fps, strategy) and listening to music (many forms of Jazz, old school rap, classical, some techno, oriental music, American music from the 30's 40's 50's, old school RnB). Gosh dang I'm so indecisive....




Not only rap and classical in the same sentence, but right next to eachother!? I guess you know more rap that isn't just spitin' in the mike than I do... I guess that's why you added the "Old School" qualifier 

My personal route was to start with the AD700, and I was very happy with my genre preferences for a long time (see my signature). The Bass is quite "cold," in my experience it was it's own kind of addictive because it was controlled like a... Well it was really tight. And the soundstage was addictive, details were great, and the purple grew on me before I even got them. Comfort was a little funny at first because, despite the great light weight and pressure, velour pads, and great heat ventilation, I had a problem with the bottom of the earpads pressing in more while there was almost a gap of no earpad contact at the top. I slightly bent the headband bars (those things do t bend easily!) and the earpads eventually broke in to improve the fit even better.

They were absolutely a revelation in detail and "speaker-like" outside your head presentation, and many a time did little noises I hear for the first time startle me and make me turn around cuz I thought something was in the room with me. Great with games! Maybe not with good horror games, you'll freak out  Loved em for two-and a half, I forget how many years. But one day, I decided I needed to research portable audio, and I auditioned some cheap Sennheiser HD202 cans that were what I first listened to Arcade Fire's "The Suburbs" album on. The pleather sucked, my ears hurt, the treble was making my ears hurt worse, the bass was fat... but... The bass was phat. I dunno, I had a lot of fun letting the album play full through two or three times. And when I got home, I just wasn't getting as involved through my AD700. A sobering feeling for headphones that had cost about 3x the price.

I think many here have similar revelationary experiences with the Audio Technicas, and they remain exceptional for gaming, but they are dry and analytical, best performing in the upper mids and treble frequencies. You also wouldn't be confident wearing them in public, I felt shy the one time I used them in the computer lab. Meanwhile, the Denon clone CAL! headphones are not detail monsters, pleather-padded and heat generating, and not the marathon session headphones that I feel the AD700s are, but their more warm and liquid sound presentation may be more fun for you. I want to hear my AD700 in an A/B comparison with my newer Q701, powered off the $200 tube hybrid amp that should arrive in a little less than a month, and I want to test the AD700 to see how well it takes to a bass EQ (more mild than a full freq-curve balance EQ), but you'll probably have more fun with the CAL!s out of the box.

IMHO, of course.


----------



## Evshrug

genclaymore said:


> I had a Ad700 my self and interesting enough I did use it for Electronic Music as well DnB music. The bass was how can I explain it I guess was soft. It was there but not there. If that makes any sense. My work around for it at the time was me installing a op-amp that added more bass to the sound signature which worked very well too.
> 
> But another work around for the AD700 is that some people use the EQ of their music player or sound card settings to add a bit to the bass Freq to do it that way. Or using something that has a bass boost switch on it like one of the cheaper Fiio amps.  But if bass that important to you then the AD700 wouldn't be a good choice,unless you do either of what I mentioned.




Oh, I used mine for electronic and dubstep 
It's interesting how much texture a shy-bass headphone like the AD700 can reveal in bass notes, when fed enough current. I liked the E5's bass EQ before the switch started misbehaving, but it would clip sometimes when activated (probably a fault in my E5), and most of the time I would listen without any EQ. I bet if I had started with the E11 amp instead, with it's low output impedance and plentiful current for the AD700, I would have been even longer away from Head-Fi  I've also read that the E11's bass boost is a tad more sub-bass than the average boost, which would mate ideally with the AD700.

Glenclaymore, it was very interesting to use iTunes' EQ in opposite of Headroom's published freq curve graphs. I was surprised how well it took to some pretty extreme EQ, but I tweaked it to be a bit more moderate of a change


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Ok I'm decided:
> 
> DT770 + Objective2 + Titanium X-Fi + TurtleBeach's DSS2 or Mixamp, I'm exploding my budget and hoping it's worth it


 
   
  I would pick the DSS v1 of the DSS 2...


----------



## William007

Hello, i'm looking for some good gaming headphones <€60 for a friend. He wants a mic on it, i said he'd better buy an external mic like i do but he want's a build in mic.. So please recomand me some


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I would pick the DSS v1 of the DSS 2...




Agreed



william007 said:


> Hello, i'm looking for some good gaming headphones <€60 for a friend. He wants a mic on it, i said he'd better buy an external mic like i do but he want's a build in mic.. So please recomand me some




IMO, good + gaming headset + <60 € = can't be done. I literally don't feel the headsets in that price range are pleasant nor good. If you want to spend more, gaming headsets eventually do become pretty good, but all the turtle beaches and tritons hurt your ears audibly and physically after a moderate gaming session. Tell your friend how cheap lapel mics like this one are, let him know that my friends can hear my voice better through it than their turtles, and that it works seamlessly even with an Xbox. He/she can even coil the wire around the headphone cable if they want to not have a lot of dangling wires.

Then, read the first page guide on this thread for the best low-price headphones for gaming currently out there.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if he/she just gets a cheap gaming headset, he/she will really be missing out.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would pick the DSS v1 of the DSS 2...


 
   
  Yes, I was just thinking about this. The advantage of the DSS2 was just its price, the DSS1 is just as expensive as the Mixamp... in which case, well I might just be better buying the mixamp, especially if I plan to double-amp (which I will need if I want to drive the DT770 250ohm) with the Objective 2 on top of it (less hiss according to this guide). So Mixamp it is I think?


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> Yes, I was just thinking about this. The advantage of the DSS2 was just its price, the DSS1 is just as expensive as the Mixamp... in which case, well I might just be better buying the mixamp, especially if I plan to double-amp (which I will need if I want to drive the DT770 250ohm) with the Objective 2 on top of it (less hiss according to this guide). So Mixamp it is I think?




Unless you want the Recon3D _OH NO I DID IT AGAIN!_ 
I got Creative's Recon3D precisely so I would have a DSP to work with both my computer (instead of a soundcard) and 360, and I was impressed with it after a few tweaks, which I broke down (at length) a week ago on this thread. Sorry to give you another option, and I know that Mad prefers the Mixamp, Nameless prefers the internal soundcard route, but I found the Recon3D on sale, and I think its great if you want one thing for both consoles and PC.

My computer provides power through USB even when it's turned off, so (after I tweaked my settings!) I plugged the optical into my Xbox, and now I just have to move a little switch to go from PC audio to console. Note: you can't change the Recon3D's settings if the optical is still plugged into the console.

For what it's worth I thought the Recon3D did positional audio better than the Turtle Beach setup in a kiosk at (a few of) my local electronics stores, but it was just a pre-recorded video rather than a live game.


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





william007 said:


> Hello, i'm looking for some good gaming headphones <€60 for a friend. He wants a mic on it, i said he'd better buy an external mic like i do but he want's a build in mic.. So please recomand me some


 

 Superlux HD668B should be around that price range or lower in Euro, also the Superlux HD660 should be E45ish on ebay. Which would be good options. Then you can use a chip clip on mic.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Unless you want the Recon3D _OH NO I DID IT AGAIN!_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  In this case, I'll be going the _crazy _route and buy both the internal soundcard (X-Fi Titanium) AND the Mixamp 
   
  However regarding purely Recon3D vs Mixamp, I had simply rejected the Recon due to the remark in this guide that the processing doesn't match the Dolby Headphones. I'm planning on it to be a very long term investment, so I'd rather put the 50€ difference now and don't regret it later, so that I can fully benefit the amp + headphones.
   
  Thanks for the suggestion though, I really did not give the Recon3D enough reflexion before, and I'd maybe have taken it over de DSS.
   
   
  Still hesitating a bit between 80 and 250 ohms however. I'll have the night to ponder on that and order everything tomorrow


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> Superlux HD668B should be around that price range or lower in Euro, also the Superlux HD660 should be E45ish on ebay. Which would be good options. Then you can use a chip clip on mic.


 
  The Superlux HD660 are good sounding headphones, but they are 150-Ohm.
  William007, hopefully you have a decent amplifier to drive them.
   
  At Thomann, in Europe they sell the Superlux HMD-660E, which is the HD660 with a built in mic.
  I really recommend you get the Beyerdynamic Velour ear pads with them, really helps comfort wise.
  (same Velour ear pads used on the Beyer DT770 or DT880/DT990)


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> In this case, I'll be going the _crazy_ route and buy both the internal soundcard (X-Fi Titanium) AND the Mixamp
> 
> However regarding purely Recon3D vs Mixamp, I had simply rejected the Recon due to the remark in this guide that the processing doesn't match the Dolby Headphones. I'm planning on it to be a very long term investment, so I'd rather put the 50€ difference now and don't regret it later, so that I can fully benefit the amp + headphones.
> 
> ...




If it helps any, I don't think you're crazy. I know the logic in not buying something that you would be dissatisfied with and intend on upgrading from anyway. I just read that your budget was exploding (there's a reason for Head-Fi's traditional welcome, lol!), and if you had to choose between any mix of satisfying amp, satisfying headphone, having both or one DSP options, and staying out of debt, then I was just making a suggestion that (maybe) would save you money.

Mad and Nameless both tested the Recon3D, and I think we all wanted it to be great, but as far as I could tell from their writing, neither of them had installed the Recon3D software and successfully changed the settings from stock. The Recon was especially disappointing for Nameless I think, because he wanted an external DSP that would fully work with his retro games on a laptop. I was going to send mine back if I didn't feel it made enough difference, as I've been playing games in stereo for 20 years, but I let the 30 days pass because I'm addicted :3 I feel that at least maxing the surround setting in the device preferences made a big difference from stock, like rear cues having the same spacial distance from my head as the other channels, an O shape instead of more like a D with rear cues sounding from inside my head at stock setting. Everyone hears these things differently though, hopefully headphone gaming will continue growing and we get more choices as consumers.

Edit: just noticed Mad changed his initial review of the Recon and had gotten the software working. Combining my experiences with his, and Many other things I've read, I bet the amp of the Recon3D has weak reserves and a higher output impedance than is strictly good. Don't have anything else to say about that, except I want to hear a Mixamp some day, and I'm looking forward to receiving my desktop amp, which I think will take anything and everything to the next level. 

Hey Nameless!
I've been having a lot of fun playing Metro 2033 this weekend! I think the sound is pretty good, as well as all the other parts; I was so immersed that I literally jumped at least four times last night! If you can get a chance to play it, tell me if you like it, and if the gameplay reminds you of any other games 

I've been enjoying my setup a lot lately, thanks for helping me try harder Mad


----------



## saladin

Ok, back again. So I just did more research; and it seems that many people say that the Samson SR-850 are the better overall alternative to the AD700. I read that the 850s make up for the less comfort and slightly less sound stage with their superior bass, as compared to the 700s. Is there any truth to these statements? because if so, then I will probably go for the 850s.
   
  Is Best Buy actually selling these for $19?!!!!!!
   
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samson+-+SR850+Headphone+-+Black/5283847.p?id=1218664534299&skuId=5283847&st=sr850&cp=1&lp=2


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





saladin said:


> Ok, back again. So I just did more research; and it seems that many people say that the Samson SR-850 are the better overall alternative to the AD700. I read that the 850s make up for the less comfort and slightly less sound stage with their superior bass, as compared to the 700s. Is there any truth to these statements? because if so, then I will probably go for the 850s.
> 
> Is Best Buy actually selling these for $19?!!!!!!
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samson+-+SR850+Headphone+-+Black/5283847.p?id=1218664534299&skuId=5283847&st=sr850&cp=1&lp=2


 
   
  At $19 you might as well take a chance on that.
   
  AD 700 vs CAL!: despite the differences in opinions, you can see that people agree on the CAL having more bass. Some genres of music you like need bass. I think the choice is quite clear, isn't it?


----------



## saladin

Ordered the 850s, I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





saladin said:


> Ok, back again. So I just did more research; and it seems that many people say that the Samson SR-850 are the better overall alternative to the AD700. I read that the 850s make up for the less comfort and slightly less sound stage with their superior bass, as compared to the 700s. Is there any truth to these statements? because if so, then I will probably go for the 850s.
> 
> Is Best Buy actually selling these for $19?!!!!!!
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samson+-+SR850+Headphone+-+Black/5283847.p?id=1218664534299&skuId=5283847&st=sr850&cp=1&lp=2


 
   
  It's a Best Buy market place item - which is a lot like Amazon's system.  It's not Best Buy providing the product, but rather a market place on it's web site FOR another seller's product.  You might want to check their market place policy before ordering and make sure that the price will be honored.  I don't see why not, but just wanted to point out it's not Best Buy that is directly selling that product.  It's a independent seller using Best Buy's web presence to market to a larger customer base.
   
  Just an FYI.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Yes, I was just thinking about this. The advantage of the DSS2 was just its price, the DSS1 is just as expensive as the Mixamp... in which case, well I might just be better buying the mixamp, especially if I plan to double-amp (which I will need if I want to drive the DT770 250ohm) with the Objective 2 on top of it (less hiss according to this guide). So Mixamp it is I think?


 
   
  Yes, if the DSS isn't any cheaper than the mixamp, I would just get the mixamp.  In the US it's much cheaper than the mixamp used.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If it helps any, I don't think you're crazy. I know the logic in not buying something that you would be dissatisfied with and intend on upgrading from anyway. I just read that your budget was exploding (there's a reason for Head-Fi's traditional welcome, lol!), and if you had to choose between any mix of satisfying amp, satisfying headphone, having both or one DSP options, and staying out of debt, then I was just making a suggestion that (maybe) would save you money.
> Mad and Nameless both tested the Recon3D, and I think we all wanted it to be great, but as far as I could tell from their writing, neither of them had installed the Recon3D software and successfully changed the settings from stock. The Recon was especially disappointing for Nameless I think, because he wanted an external DSP that would fully work with his retro games on a laptop. I was going to send mine back if I didn't feel it made enough difference, as I've been playing games in stereo for 20 years, but I let the 30 days pass because I'm addicted :3 I feel that at least maxing the surround setting in the device preferences made a big difference from stock, like rear cues having the same spacial distance from my head as the other channels, an O shape instead of more like a D with rear cues sounding from inside my head at stock setting. Everyone hears these things differently though, hopefully headphone gaming will continue growing and we get more choices as consumers.
> Edit: just noticed Mad changed his initial review of the Recon and had gotten the software working. Combining my experiences with his, and Many other things I've read, I bet the amp of the Recon3D has weak reserves and a higher output impedance than is strictly good. Don't have anything else to say about that, except I want to hear a Mixamp some day, and I'm looking forward to receiving my desktop amp, which I think will take anything and everything to the next level.
> Hey Nameless!
> ...


 
   
  I'll have you know that I did the vast majority of my PC testing with the software fully installed. You wouldn't get headphone surround or OpenAL support without that software!
   
  I did find that maxing THX TruStudio Surround may have improved the front/rear positioning, but there were still some weird panning issues that don't happen with CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  Also, the main sticking point with retro game compatibility (chiefly Thief 1/2) is no longer an issue with those surprise patches implementing native OpenAL support. Still, Creative's software OpenAL renderer doesn't hold up to their hardware renderer.
   
  As for Metro 2033, it's in my massive PC game library backlog thanks to the usual Steam sales. I have yet to actually install and play it, but word is that it'll really make me want to upgrade from the ol' 8800 GT already. (An upgrade I keep putting off because I keep buying audio equipment...and a better monitor...and, now, a colorimeter...)


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Got the HD 558's from the mail this morning along with red dead redemption and deus ex human revolution.
  Only used these with red dead redemption but so far they sound awesome, I can hear things I never heard before in that game like the wind blowing birds chirping while I'm in a gunfight against bandits lol.
   
  Also listening to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M4AM2D041o and again I can hear details I never heard before.
   
  First impressions are that I'm really likeing these headphones, its my first pair of audiophile grade cans and I can see why these are well regarded. Can't really say anything bad about them so far they are very comfy with the velour padding  and I don't have the clamp issue that others have, (might be because I got it used) nor do I hear anything lacking in the bass.
   
  Again I only been useing these for a day so I need more testing to see if these have any issues or not but so far of the 3 sets of cans that I owned (PX21 Siberia V2 and these) I say these are easily the best of them all.
   
  Sorry if I'm describing this strangely, I don't really write impressions that much.


----------



## William007

purpleangel said:


> The Superlux HD660 are good sounding headphones, but they are 150-Ohm.
> William007, hopefully you have a decent amplifier to drive them.
> 
> At Thomann, in Europe they sell the Superlux HMD-660E, which is the HD660 with a built in mic.
> ...



It's not for me, it's for a friend i use my Wharfedale with my Schiit for gaming  thanks anyway!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





william007 said:


> It's not for me, it's for a friend i use my Wharfedale with my Schiit for gaming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL I googled "Wharfedale Isodynamic"....
   
  Holy crap those are ugly!


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> LOL I googled "Wharfedale Isodynamic"....
> 
> Holy crap those are ugly!


 
   
  Hey now, ladies love the square headphones. Don't these guys just ooze sex appeal? (AKG K1000)


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> LOL I googled "Wharfedale Isodynamic"....
> 
> Holy crap those are ugly!


 
   
  On the other hand, I think they're gorgeous.


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> D7000 and DT990 should be better for gaming then HD650.  I would stick with what you already have.


 
   
  ok thanks..
   
  any reason?  i thought the hd650s might do well with games  ..


----------



## burritoboy9984

What are the differences between the Astro mixamps that came with the a30's, a40's and now the Astro Mix Amp Pro? Are they all the same? They look slightly different and I just want to get the best one.
   
  Thanks!
  -Erik


----------



## Mjonir

Quote:


burritoboy9984 said:


> What are the differences between the Astro mixamps that came with the a30's, a40's and now the Astro Mix Amp Pro? Are they all the same? They look slightly different and I just want to get the best one.
> 
> Thanks!
> -Erik


   
  I think the mixamps sold with some a30/a40 are "Astro Mixamp 5.8" not the "Mixamp Pro", which are covered in this guide. They have their pro (ex: wireless) & cons (ex: connectivity), it depends on your preference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again the first post is ignored.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> I'll have you know that I did the vast majority of my PC testing with the software fully installed. You wouldn't get headphone surround or OpenAL support without that software!
> 
> I did find that maxing THX TruStudio Surround may have improved the front/rear positioning, but there were still some weird panning issues that don't happen with CMSS-3D Headphone.
> 
> ...




Ah, I thought you were just using your X-Fi drivers or something. Also, I am playing (a borrowed copy of) Metro on my Xbox 360, your system should still outperform that. Even with Xbox's native 720p resolution of games and low settings, it looks gorgeous and trippy. I do honestly think you'll love the game... I think the hidden morality choices make the game interesting, and you feel regret every time you have to kill something. 



BUT WHAT SURPRISE PATCHES???


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Again the first post is ignored.



Yeah, I figure this has to have happened a lot since you started the guide. Then you tell hem that the answers are already there, then they come back and say "Oh well I just wanted to know if you changed your mind (since your last update 3 days ago), could you please work for me for free? Oh and while you're at it, please compare thousands of dollars of top headphones for me, then I'll disappear without saying thanks."
I figure, you must be used to it and able to just basically repeat your guide by now, but how do you keep from getting annoyed?


----------



## William007

chicolom said:


> LOL I googled "Wharfedale Isodynamic"....
> 
> Holy crap those are ugly!



Holy crap they sound good!  they have an amazing soudstage


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Yeah, I figure this has to have happened a lot since you started the guide. Then you tell hem that the answers are already there, then they come back and say "Oh well I just wanted to know if you changed your mind (since your last update 3 days ago), could you please work for me for free? Oh and while you're at it, please compare thousands of dollars of top headphones for me, then I'll disappear without saying thanks."
> I figure, you must be used to it and able to just basically repeat your guide by now, but how do you keep from getting annoyed?




Yeah, I basically mention that I can't compare any headphone not on the list as I haven't tried them. Why would I hide my impressions of any headphone? Asides from headphones that I bought with no intention of using them for gaming (i.e. ESW9, ES7, PX200-II, etc), if I get any headphone, you can be sure to expect that I'd put in my impressions on the guide. 

But hoe deos teh Plantronics X209303993 werk 4r gaeming? :rolleyes:


----------



## Mjonir

Hm, back with two questions again:
   
  I'm still checking my combo of choice (DT770 + Objective2 + Mixamp), and on the subject of the sound card NamelessPFG recommended the X-Fi Titanium. However I just saw that it also exists in an "HD" version. What's the difference in practice?
   
  Also, can anybody confirm that the ear doesn't touches anything on the DT770 Pro?


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Hm, back with two questions again:
> 
> I'm still checking my combo of choice (DT770 + Objective2 + Mixamp), and on the subject of the sound card NamelessPFG recommended the X-Fi Titanium. However I just saw that it also exists in an "HD" version. What's the difference in practice?
> 
> Also, can anybody confirm that the ear doesn't touches anything on the DT770 Pro?


 
   
  My left ear does touch the driver padding on the DT770 Pro but my right doesn't. It can become uncomfortable for me after a while, but I'm gonna stick with it cuz other than that they're really nice and I can't afford to go up to AKGs really. From what I gather there's more space there than the 880 and 990 anyway.
   
  I'm a little confused can someone please clarify this for me? Are people running Mixamps through dedicated amps like Fiios or vice versa? aka Do I need both? Noob question but I currently don't own either, I'm just using my AV receiver at the moment.


----------



## Mjonir

Paradux: Thanks for the feedback.
   
  From what I gathered, Mixamp alone might not be enough for the Beyer. Since I'll be buying an amp for my computer anyway, I'll most probably run the Mixamp through it too. I think this will be necessary anyway since I'll be getting the 250ohm version (again, buying the amp anyway so let's use it! ).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp is not enough for the Beyers. Even the 32ohm Beyers want more than the Mixamp can give (though the Mixamp does decently with them). People shouldn't waste their money on the Beyers if they're not going to drive them properly.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Paradux: Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> From what I gathered, Mixamp alone might not be enough for the Beyer. Since I'll be buying an amp for my computer anyway, I'll most probably run the Mixamp through it too. I think this will be necessary anyway since I'll be getting the 250ohm version (again, buying the amp anyway so let's use it! ).


 
  No problem. I have the 80ohms and they do sound really nice in games when powered, and if you don't have big ears you shouldn't have a comfort issue. If you're going purely for a desktop amp why not go for the 600ohm or will it not power that?
   
  So you run TOSlink into the mixamp and then 3.5mm jack into an amp?


----------



## Mjonir

Thanks for the confirmation MLE 
   
  Paradux: I haven't found the 600ohm version at my usual vendors. Buying it elsewhere will probably be way more expensive. From what I read, the difference is small so I don't think it's worth it 
   
  For your second question, I haven't bought the actual hardware yet, I'm still hesitating on which internal PC soundcard I should buy :s


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Thanks for the confirmation MLE
> 
> Paradux: I haven't found the 600ohm version at my usual vendors. Buying it elsewhere will probably be way more expensive. From what I read, the difference is small so I don't think it's worth it
> 
> For your second question, I haven't bought the actual hardware yet, I'm still hesitating on which internal PC soundcard I should buy :s


 
  Is this for 100% PC gaming? If so could you not just get a powered sound card and skip the desktop amp?


----------



## Mjonir

Hm, good question. It would be mainly for PC use, and occasionally Xbox use.
   
  The initial idea was, following NamelessPFG's recommendation, to buy a X-Fi Titanium. It was questionable whether this card would be strong enough for the Bayer, so I added the amp to my list to be sure.
   
  From what I read around the X-Fi Titanium does a better job at positioning and virtual surround in general, and also supports much better virtual surround on certain types of games (using OpenAL or DirectSound).
   
  However I'm worrying about the difference between the normal and "HD" version, which is double the price. I also don't know how much better the sound processing will be, and if I'll actually benefit from it since I'll only be playing recent games on Windows 7.  Moreover I read a lot of bad things about the bad drivers and support from Creative.
   
   
  That's a lot of things only somebody with experience can tell me. I wouldn't want to miss on the experience if it's really worth it, but if it's really minor or if I'm not going to benefit from it in my games, there is also the Xonar which could have a better sound quality, and comprise a headphones amp.
   
  I'm a bit lost here, I have no experience with sound cards and no objective way to compare them ^^'


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Hm, good question. It would be mainly for PC use, and occasionally Xbox use.
> The initial idea was, following NamelessPFG's recommendation, to buy a X-Fi Titanium. It was questionable whether this card would be strong enough for the Bayer, so I added the amp to my list to be sure.
> From what I read around the X-Fi Titanium does a better job at positioning and virtual surround in general, and also supports much better virtual surround on certain types of games (using OpenAL or DirectSound).
> However I'm worrying about the difference between the normal and "HD" version, which is double the price. I also don't know how much better the sound processing will be, and if I'll actually benefit from it since I'll only be playing recent games on Windows 7.  Moreover I read a lot of bad things about the bad drivers and support from Creative.
> ...


 
  A used X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) sells for $45 at Newegg.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043
   
  A used Fiio E9 headphone amplifier, $78
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004M172FY/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
   
  This combo should do fine for PC gaming, for $123.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> burritoboy9984 said:
> ...


 
   
  Ok, I guess my actual question is are the Mixamp Pro's they are selling now, the same ones that are branded "A40 mixamp" that look like the Mixamp Pro? Didn't know if they had changed anything to improve after the A40 version.
   
  Thanks
  -Erik


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> A used X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) sells for $45 at Newegg.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043
> 
> A used Fiio E9 headphone amplifier, $78
> ...


 
   
   
  Unfortunately neither of these sellers will ship to Europe. Thanks a lot for the tips though 
   
  Do you have an opinion on the sound card by the way?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Hm, good question. It would be mainly for PC use, and occasionally Xbox use.
> 
> The initial idea was, following NamelessPFG's recommendation, to buy a X-Fi Titanium. It was questionable whether this card would be strong enough for the Bayer, so I added the amp to my list to be sure.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The main difference between the basic X-Fi Titanium and the Titanium HD is that the latter has higher-quality analog outputs, but only 2 channels worth compared to 8.
   
  As for drivers, use this pack. Works pretty well for me when I use it with non-Titanium HD cards. (The Titanium HD isn't supported, but the existing drivers are reliable enough that I wouldn't need to bother anyway.)
   
  By the way, you'll find complaints about audio drivers for just about any device out there, not just Creative hardware. I've seen my fair share of complaints about Asus and Realtek drivers already. It's like audio device drivers are forever doomed to suck for some people no matter what they get.
   
  As for the "not shipping outside the US" issue...again, I can help with that.


----------



## ruuku

burritoboy9984 said:


> Ok, I guess my actual question is are the Mixamp Pro's they are selling now, the same ones that are branded "A40 mixamp" that look like the Mixamp Pro? Didn't know if they had changed anything to improve after the A40 version.
> 
> Thanks
> -Erik




I believe the older A40 labeled versions are 5.1 simulated, while the "Pro" moniker has simulated 7.1... not that there's any real world difference between the two. Comparing the 7.1 Pro version to the 5.1 AX decoder box, I hear little to no difference in sound, only in floor/white noise.


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> Ok, I guess my actual question is are the Mixamp Pro's they are selling now, the same ones that are branded "A40 mixamp" that look like the Mixamp Pro? Didn't know if they had changed anything to improve after the A40 version.
> 
> Thanks
> -Erik




The Mixamp pro and Mixamp 5.8 are the only Mixamps currently sold as new, AFAIK.

Mad has almost all the headphone surround processors reviewed and listed on the first post, near the bottom, except for Creative's CMSS-3D and Yamaha's proprietary Silent Cinema (which I have on a receiver, and it's effectiveness basically matches Mad's description of DH mode 3 in my opinion).


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The main difference between the basic X-Fi Titanium and the Titanium HD is that the latter has higher-quality analog outputs, but only 2 channels worth compared to 8.
> 
> As for drivers, use this pack. Works pretty well for me when I use it with non-Titanium HD cards. (The Titanium HD isn't supported, but the existing drivers are reliable enough that I wouldn't need to bother anyway.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, that's reassuring! I'm think I'm going to take a leap of faith and trust you on this 
   
  I don't think I need the other output channels as I'll only be plugging the headphones, there is nothing else I have to plug in. In this case, which of the two do you think scales the best with the DT770 and the O2 amp? Will it make a difference?
   
   
  Well, it's really not worth it for the titanium as I can get it at a fair price here, but the E9 would have been interesting since I was thinking about other sound cards. I'm just very afraid of the customs, from what I have read if it's not a big transporter like UPS/Fedex, there is a fair chance to go through untaxed... but otherwise it can be easily 30% of US price + 20 to 50€. Also, no way for me to use the warranty in case something happens (I've got a huge history of bad luck with hardware ).
   
  But anyway, if I get the Titanium, I think I'll better keep to the O2 as I'll be using it for both PC and Xbox extensively. I was quite hyped from reading about this amp, sound definitely superior so I'll stick to it. But thanks again for the offer, and your advices. You're a huge help!


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> Thanks, that's reassuring! I'm think I'm going to take a leap of faith and trust you on this
> 
> I don't think I need the other output channels as I'll only be plugging the headphones, there is nothing else I have to plug in. In this case, which of the two do you think scales the best with the DT770 and the O2 amp? Will it make a difference?
> 
> ...




Nameless is definitely our main soundcard guru, although I would also trust PurpleAngel. I think Purple Angel was just making a suggestion to save you a couple bucks like I was with the Recon3D, but if you're happily set on the O2 I believe Epiphany Audio is the European (located in the UK) distributor. I was sorely tempted to get an O2 as well, but I made the personal decision to go with a tube amp for my AKG's.

Thank goodness I don't have a pet, lol!

Edit: Oh, and as a personal opinion, I don't know why a soundcard should have true 5.1 or 7.1 channel speaker outputs. The way I see it, a pc gaming station is going to either be 
1.) mostly like an office, where a Logitech 5.1 setup with near-field speakers seems like a mediocre experience and headphones by far make more sense, or 
2.) in your living room hooked up to a home theater system, with good passive speakers requiring at least an integrated amp, so the soundcard would essentially be just acting as a DAC to pass the signal along to the integrated amp/receiver.
I might be missing something, like if the optical-out can pass all the channels out to the integrated amp, but if I was going for a surround speaker setup, passive speakers and a couch or lazyboy are just way more suitable IMO.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The Mixamp pro and Mixamp 5.8 are the only Mixamps currently sold as new, AFAIK.
> Mad has almost all the headphone surround processors reviewed and listed on the first post, near the bottom, except for Creative's CMSS-3D and Yamaha's proprietary Silent Cinema (which I have on a receiver, and it's effectiveness basically matches Mad's description of DH mode 3 in my opinion).


 
  I was thinking of picking up a used A40 mixamp, that is why I'm asking.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> I was thinking of picking up a used A40 mixamp, that is why I'm asking.
> 
> -Erik



TRY THIS ONE WEIRD BUT REALLY USEFUL TOOL!

Yeah, the A40 is the headphone, and the Mixamp that comes with it is the wired version, and should perform very well for you (as long as you are part of the majority that virtual surround works for).

From Astro's page on the A40 audio system:
http://www.astrogaming.com/a40-audio-system-astro-edition
_"The A40 Audio System pairs the award-winning A40 Headset with the *MixAmp™ Pro*, infusing your gaming audio with incredibly accurate Dolby 7.1 Surround Sound and puts game/voice balancing controls right at your fingertips."_


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless is definitely our main soundcard guru


 
   
  I can see that. That's why I'll _religiously _wait for his advice on this 
   
   
  Yep, I'll indeed be buying from Epiphany Acoustics, it's just a 10£ shipping for me (and no taxes, thanks EU!).
   
  I think the soundcard optical out can indeed be used to get all channels with the audio treatment of the soundcard on top of it. However, although I'm not knowledgeable in surround systems, I think good ones will have their own DSP and DAC, so it might be enough to just get it from the motherboard itself. Speakers is not something I'd buy in the foreseeable years anyway


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> I can see that. That's why I'll _religiously_ wait for his advice on this
> 
> Yep, I'll indeed be buying from Epiphany Acoustics, it's just a 10£ shipping for me (and no taxes, thanks EU!).
> 
> I think the soundcard optical out can indeed be used to get all channels with the audio treatment of the soundcard on top of it. However, although I'm not knowledgeable in surround systems, I think good ones will have their own DSP and DAC, so it might be enough to just get it from the motherboard itself. Speakers is not something I'd buy in the foreseeable years anyway



I have a Yamaha receiver and one pair of Polk Audio M40 speakers that are on clearance over here. They were great in my apartment, but I didn't want to bother people with them late at night, and while I'm in-between jobs and not at my "own place" right now, all my stereo equip is packed away in boxes 
While Silent Cinema was cool and did headphone surround alright, I had been wishing I had bought a receiver with a mic for room equalization. Those auto-setups aren't perfect, but I'm no pro and I can't get it quite right myself. I prefer the Recon3D's headphone surround implementation anyway, personally. So that's something for future reference, you never know...

P.S. in my other post above, did you get the reference to those "lose weight with this weird but simple tip!" web ads?


----------



## Mjonir

Sorry, do see what you're referring to, but even by reading again I couldn't find it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku said:


> I believe the older A40 labeled versions are 5.1 simulated, while the "Pro" moniker has simulated 7.1... not that there's any real world difference between the two. Comparing the 7.1 Pro version to the 5.1 AX decoder box, I hear little to no difference in sound, only in floor/white noise.




It's the same exact processing. Astro decided to lie about it and call it 7.1 because simulated surround is simulated. There are zero speaker cues on Dolby Headphone. The sound literally comes from all directions. They could call it 20.1 surround, and they wouldn't be wrong, though technically it's still a signal processed from 5.1 (as SPDIF only does 5.1 or less).

Marketing hyperbole. You should be used to this by now. Beats and Monster are notorious for this. Astro seems to have joined.

The Mixamp Pro is PRO, because it has the most inputs, the least noise floor, etc. It's still the same wired Mixamp from 2010.


----------



## ruuku

Lol @ the marketing! Though I guess that's where its heading, with all of the major headset makers (Tritton/Madcatz, Turtlebeach, ect) moving towards "7.1", with no real changes or improvements in sound.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's the same exact processing. Astro decided to lie about it and call it 7.1 because simulated surround is simulated. There are zero speaker cues on Dolby Headphone. The sound literally comes from all directions. They could call it 20.1 surround, and they wouldn't be wrong, though technically it's still a signal processed from 5.1 (as SPDIF only does 5.1 or less).
> Marketing hyperbole. You should be used to this by now. Beats and Monster are notorious for this. Astro seems to have joined.
> The Mixamp Pro is PRO, because it has the most inputs, the least noise floor, etc. It's still the same wired Mixamp from 2010.


 
  Thanks for the help Mad Lust, any idea of the difference in SQ between the 2? How much more would you say the Pro is worth than the 2010 version? Or is it so negligible either one will suffice?
   
  Thanks again!
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh... I have already said, they are the EXACT same, all they did was change the name. Pre-2010 Mixamp had different aesthetics, that's it. They all use Dolby Headphone 2.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Thanks, that's reassuring! I'm think I'm going to take a leap of faith and trust you on this
> 
> I don't think I need the other output channels as I'll only be plugging the headphones, there is nothing else I have to plug in. In this case, which of the two do you think scales the best with the DT770 and the O2 amp? Will it make a difference?
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think the Titanium HD will scale better, if you can afford it. Better analog output (and thus a better DAC), after all. Of course, you could potentially get even better sound quality with a dedicated DAC that has S/PDIF input (thus making the sound card difference largely irrelevant), but now you're looking at spending at least US$300, probably over $500...all for just a DAC. At that point, the Titanium HD starts looking quite affordable.
   
  I ship overseas via USPS because they're not stupidly overpriced. It takes a while, but they generally deliver. Also, there are the usual "declare gift + low value" tricks. Still, if warranty is a concern, you could very well be much better off buying locally.
   
  I do what I can to help around here. It's why I wrote that guide, among other things.


----------



## Eric_C

-nevermind-


----------



## Evshrug

XD
Hopefully our little burrito won't ask the same question again.

I'm not digging on you, Eric_C, it's just that burrito is failing to comprehend that we've told him in 5 different ways that the Mixamp is a very capable device, and just repeats the question. It takes 2 seconds to find the info he's looking for via google search (which I proved in the hyperlink of my last reply to him), or if he stumbled on this thread he might've at least had the respect to read the guide that Mad put a lot of effort into, but instead he's basically been trolling us for 2 days.

It's a face-palm.

/rant


----------



## Evshrug

Sorry


----------



## Evshrug

Sorry


----------



## Evshrug

Sorry everyone, I have to use a phone hotspot to get Internet right now, and I knew it was bad... but I didn't think it would make a QUAD-post!

Just to say again Eric_C, I don't think you did anything wrong by trying to be helpful, I just was asking we try not to feed the trolls... Instead, _I_ feel like a troll now, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant to sound like a personal attack.


----------



## Eric_C

Evshrug: sorry, thought I'd give more info. Ehhh you went and replied me 3x!


----------



## burritoboy9984

Double post.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's the same exact processing. Astro decided to lie about it and call it 7.1 because simulated surround is simulated. There are zero speaker cues on Dolby Headphone. The sound literally comes from all directions. They could call it 20.1 surround, and they wouldn't be wrong, though technically it's still a signal processed from 5.1 (as SPDIF only does 5.1 or less).
> Marketing hyperbole. You should be used to this by now. Beats and Monster are notorious for this. Astro seems to have joined.
> The Mixamp Pro is PRO, because it has the most inputs, the least noise floor, etc. It's still the same wired Mixamp from 2010.


 
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Thanks for the help Mad Lust, any idea of the difference in SQ between the 2? How much more would you say the Pro is worth than the 2010 version? Or is it so negligible either one will suffice?
> 
> Thanks again!
> -Erik


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh... I have already said, they are the EXACT same, all they did was change the name. Pre-2010 Mixamp had different aesthetics, that's it. They all use Dolby Headphone 2.


 
  In the quote above, you said they have more inputs and the least floor noise. That is why I asked again. Which is it? Are they the "EXACT" same, or do they have more inputs and less floor noise? I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to figure out which is the best to buy, and you contradicted yourself, leaving doubt. BTW, I read your entire guide and purchased PC360's and a pair of AD700's. Thanks again for all your hard work and info.
   



evshrug said:


> XD
> Hopefully our little burrito won't ask the same question again.
> I'm not digging on you, Eric_C, it's just that burrito is failing to comprehend that we've told him in 5 different ways that the Mixamp is a very capable device, and just repeats the question. It takes 2 seconds to find the info he's looking for via google search (which I proved in the hyperlink of my last reply to him), or if he stumbled on this thread he might've at least had the respect to read the guide that Mad put a lot of effort into, but instead he's basically been trolling us for 2 days.
> It's a face-palm.
> /rant


   
  Not trolling, he contradicted himself and I'm just trying to find out the differences. See above. Also, just to add, you hyperlink is false info as above Mad already stated there were differences between 2010 and the current model.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Eric_C

I don't see any contradictions in MLE's posts.
  The MixAmp uses the same processing. Processing (in this case, the way virtual surround is achieved) is independent of noise floor.
  In any case, isn't all this discussion of old vs new MixAmp just academic? How are you able to get your hands on the old MixAmps?
   
  The MixAmp Pro is a good device. If you want virtual surround on consoles and need chat, get it. There is no other viable option that I can think of.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> I don't see any contradictions in MLE's posts.
> The MixAmp uses the same processing. Processing (in this case, the way virtual surround is achieved) is independent of noise floor.
> In any case, isn't all this discussion of old vs new MixAmp just academic? How are you able to get your hands on the old MixAmps?
> 
> The MixAmp Pro is a good device. If you want virtual surround on consoles and need chat, get it. There is no other viable option that I can think of.


 
  As I stated above, he said the Pro has more inputs and least floor noise. If that is the case, it isn't the same as the 2010 from how he explained it. The older ones pop up on ebay, and I have been looking at purchasing one or two.
   
  I'm not stating, nor have I ever stated that the MixAmp Pro isn't an awesome device. I just like to take the time and make sure I'm getting the best for my money.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> In the quote above, you said they have more inputs and the least floor noise. That is why I asked again. Which is it? Are they the "EXACT" same, or do they have more inputs and less floor noise? I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to figure out which is the best to buy, and you contradicted yourself, leaving doubt.




No.
Again, you failed to comprehend.

The wired Pro model has more inputs, and a lower noise floor, _than the Mixamp 5.8_

The 2010 mixamp is functionally the same, except in name. I assume they added the "Pro" moniker to distinguish it from the wireless model (the Mixamp 5.8, if you are still following).

The hyperlink doesn't point to a site; if you had clicked it you would've seen it is just an instructional video on how to use google.

...
Really, your continual lack of comprehension seems deliberate. We've all had a hand in telling you, point blank, that if you want wired DSP for a console, any wired Mixamp is the best buy, yet somehow you still get it mixed up. I frankly don't know what else to say that wouldn't be an insult, so instead I'll just conclude that I sincerely, truly, I'll-sleep-better-if-you-do understand now what we've all been saying.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> No.
> Again, you failed to comprehend.
> The wired Pro model has more inputs, and a lower noise floor, _than the Mixamp 5.8_
> The 2010 mixamp is functionally the same, except in name. I assume they added the "Pro" moniker to distinguish it from the wireless model (the Mixamp 5.8, if you are still following).
> ...


 
"The Mixamp Pro is PRO, because it has the most inputs, the least noise floor, etc. It's still the same wired Mixamp from 2010."
   
That doesn't say when compared to the 5.8 mixamp, and you and one other person are the only ones who ever referred to the 5.8, Mad never mentioned that he was comparing those.
   
Also, your OTHER hyperlink pointed to the A40 home page, and that is the page I was obviously referring to.
   
At this point, I'm just trying to defend myself, and explain how if he was trying to say they were the same, the above sentence made it appear different.
   
-Erik


----------



## Eric_C

Let me try and clear things up:
  First, can we all just drop defending ourselves? burritoboy, you want info. Providing it is going to be the only objective here.
   
  Second, 3 MixAmps:

 Wired, "Pro", pre-2010
 Wired, "Pro", 2010 and onwards
 Wireless, "5.8"
  The 5.8 is not available for purchase on its own in the US. Astro's website confirms this. We might as well leave it out of the discussion.
  Pre-2010 Pro models on eBay--no comment on eBay and associated risks (if any). I have no experience there.
   
  2010 (or current production) Pro is better than pre-2010. It's the MixAmp to get. Some headphones will need an extra amp. But this is it.
   
  The only reason to consider any device _other than the MixAmp Pro_ is if you, burritoboy, do not want chat. Then look up MLE's first post for details.


----------



## calpis

Here is an image of the Mixamp during its original production run (pre-2010)
   





   
  Here is a pic of the current Mixamp Pro (aka Mixamp 2010)
   




   
  The changes Astro made were:
  -aesthetics
  -PS3 chat functions w/o the need for a usb dongle (known as the ps3 chat dongle)
  -marketing material saying that it's now 7.1
  -from the 2010 production to the current production, Astro has removed the PC headset Y-cable from the package, it must be purchased seperately.
   
  That is all.
   
  Other things such as inputs, dolby headphone, mixing chat and game audio, and other core functions not stated have remained the same since the product originally launched.
   
  If this doesn't make it clear, I don't know what will...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Burrito by noise floor hiss, I'm talking about wired Mixamps vs the Mixamp 5.8 (wireless), DSS, AX720. They all have tthe same processing, but the internal amps are different, which only change hiss, and slight tonal balance differences, and not the actual Dolby Processing.. By the exact same, I'm referring to BOTH the wired Mixamps.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Let me try and clear things up:
> First, can we all just drop defending ourselves? burritoboy, you want info. Providing it is going to be the only objective here.
> 
> Second, 3 MixAmps:
> ...


 
  Thanks for clearing this all up, this is what I was wanting to know.
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Here is an image of the Mixamp during its original production run (pre-2010)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Again, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Burrito by noise floor hiss, I'm talking about wired Mixamps vs the Mixamp 5.8 (wireless), DSS, AX720. They all have tthe same processing, but the internal amps are different, which only change hiss, and slight tonal balance differences, and not the actual Dolby Processing.. By the exact same, I'm referring to BOTH the wired Mixamps.


 
  Ok, MLE, thanks again for clarifying, I didn't mean to start a **** storm in your thread, back on topic. And as I stated before, thanks again for all the time and effort you put in this thread for n00bs to headphones as myself.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah the Mixamp Pro (2010+) added the PS3 and USB chat functionality. I did forget to mention this, though its not an issue, as they don't sell pre-2010 wired Mixamps anyways. OTHER THAN THAT, it sounds exactly like the previous wired Mixamp.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I think the Titanium HD will scale better, if you can afford it. Better analog output (and thus a better DAC), after all. Of course, you could potentially get even better sound quality with a dedicated DAC that has S/PDIF input (thus making the sound card difference largely irrelevant), but now you're looking at spending at least US$300, probably over $500...all for just a DAC. At that point, the Titanium HD starts looking quite affordable.
> 
> I ship overseas via USPS because they're not stupidly overpriced. It takes a while, but they generally deliver. Also, there are the usual "declare gift + low value" tricks. Still, if warranty is a concern, you could very well be much better off buying locally.
> 
> I do what I can to help around here. It's why I wrote that guide, among other things.


 
   
  I'm in "**** it I'm buying it all and hope it lasts 10 years" mode, so I guess I'll add the remaining 80€ and be done with it. I wouldn't want to keep wondering if I could get better, and it looks better supported driver-wise so it's a bit reassuring.
   
  I'm finally left with: DT770 250ohm, X-Fi Titanium HD, O2 amp and Mixamp. I'll buy buying all of this tonight and hope everything goes well.
   
  I do get stupidly bad luck with what I order about 70% of electronic material I order ends up returning to warranty at least once. The cause for some of these might have been electrical though, last year an invested in a line-interactive UPS and had less problems.
   
   
  Although I came here with 150€ max and end up spending 600€, a HUGE word of thank you to you and MLE for your reliable guides which definitely made the choice much easier, I'd have ended up buying crap without them. Thanks also to everyone who answered my hundreds of questions. I'll now stick around until everything comes in the mail


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What made you choose the DT770 250ohm? Note that I haven't heard the DT770 Pro 250, which sounds different from the 80ohm.


----------



## Mjonir

I forgot to mention it but I'll indeed be buying the DT770 Pro, not premium.Well, I chose the DT770 Pro thanks to your guide mainly. I wanted something for fun (games and movies) and comfort. I hesitated a lot with the DT990 Pro because they are open, but ultimately the DT770 Pro seemed more comfortable and with the kind of bass I prefer.
   
  I chose the 250ohm version over the 80 one after reading that the sound is almost the same, with maybe a little less bass. Since all reviews about the DT770 Pro are between the "lots of" and "too much" bass, I decided that a slight reduction might put me on the safe side and make it a bit better for gaming. PurpleAngel's comment that he prefers the overall sound of 250 over the 80 comforted me in that idea. Since I needed and amp anyway, and will only be using them with it, the problem of volume was out of the way.
   
  Am I doing it right?


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> I forgot to mention it but I'll indeed be buying the DT770 Pro, not premium.Well, I chose the DT770 Pro thanks to your guide mainly. I wanted something for fun (games and movies) and comfort. I hesitated a lot with the DT990 Pro because they are open, but ultimately the DT770 Pro seemed more comfortable and with the kind of bass I prefer.
> 
> I chose the 250ohm version over the 80 one after reading that the sound is almost the same, with maybe a little less bass. Since all reviews about the DT770 Pro are between the "lots of" and "too much" bass, I decided that a slight reduction might put me on the safe side and make it a bit better for gaming. PurpleAngel's comment that he prefers the overall sound of 250 over the 80 comforted me in that idea. Since I needed and amp anyway, and will only be using them with it, the problem of volume was out of the way.
> 
> Am I doing it right?




The extrapolation seems reasonable to me, though "right" is defined by your own compass  Also, a refined and powerful amp like the O2 should trim the fat off the bass even more, so you should be beyond "safe" and into the realm of "spectacular!" I'm personally curious how you'll feel the DT770 250Ohm compares with and without the amp in-line.
Should be quite an experience, I eagerly await your impressions and share in your excitement: sounds like you'll have QUITE the complete kit, all at once.

Cheers!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know. I heard the Pro 250ohm was quite well balanced while the Pro 80 was very bass heavy. That would make them VERY different, and would make my impression on the 80ohm not count for the 250ohm at all.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I don't know. I heard the Pro 250ohm was quite well balanced while the Pro 80 was very bass heavy. That would make them VERY different, and would make my impression on the 80ohm not count for the 250ohm at all.



True, and while an ohm difference usually doesn't have a large effect, you said yourself that you wondered if your experience was an outlier, since it didn't match what others had said about the DT770. Or am I mixing up what headphone you said that about?

Found a freq curve graph for the 250ohm in these reviews; looks like the bass boost is under the 9-10dB boost that usually marks bass that overwhelms details and the other frequencies:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-closed-studio-headphones-250-ohms/reviews


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't know. I heard the Pro 250ohm was quite well balanced while the Pro 80 was very bass heavy. That would make them VERY different, and would make my impression on the 80ohm not count for the 250ohm at all.


 
   
  I've read about less bass, but most reviews I read underlined that there wasn't much difference between the two. Maybe PurpleAngel can bring some light on this if he's around? 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> True, and while an ohm difference usually doesn't have a large effect, you said yourself that you wondered if your experience was an outlier, since it didn't match what others had said about the DT770. Or am I mixing up what headphone you said that about?
> Found a freq curve graph for the 250ohm in these reviews; looks like the bass boost is under the 9-10dB boost that usually marks bass that overwhelms details and the other frequencies:
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-closed-studio-headphones-250-ohms/reviews


 
  A comment on that review point out that the frequency response is of the DT770 Consumer, not Pro. From what I've read, the 80 and 250 models are different by a bit more than just ohm difference, their build is a little bit altered too, bringing those differences in sound.


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> I've read about less bass, but most reviews I read underlined that there wasn't much difference between the two. Maybe PurpleAngel can bring some light on this if he's around?
> 
> 
> 
> A comment on that review point out that the frequency response is of the DT770 Consumer, not Pro. From what I've read, the 80 and 250 models are different by a bit more than just ohm difference, their build is a little bit altered too, bringing those differences in sound.



Ah, interesting. I didn't even know Beyerdynamic even had a line called "consumer"


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ah, interesting. I didn't even know Beyerdynamic even had a line called "consumer"


 
  That's the just the same as "Premium", the terms are used interchangeably.


----------



## Mjonir

Ah, just found a message from PurpleAngel saying that at most there isn't much difference between the two versions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612345/beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-for-classical-music
   
  Since it's one of the only reliable comments from someone who owns both, I'll keep with that


----------



## Dead Ghost

I really wish someone would test the AKG K550 with Dolby Headphone in some games and movies. Because everything else about them is perfect for my needs (closed with good isolation, good sound for price, good built quality and materials, comfortable -or so they say- and light, no need for powerful amp). I've read some user impressions and they say it has a good soundstage, but no one really tested them in games or movies, with virtual surround.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Just picked up a pair of Tony Bennet Signature Edition Koss Headphones, which is a tricked out version of the Koss Pro DJ 100, for $57 with shipping. They are still on sale if anyone feels the need to burn some cash. I'm excited to try these out with my DH setups. I just wish I had the money to pick up the M50 pads that Tdockweiler recommends for them. I also have to figure out if I need an amp in addition to my DH hardware to power these.


----------



## Evshrug

Dead Ghost,
While I haven't heard them, the AKG K550 does seem to check the right boxes for good-with-DH. Detail, soundstage, bass that while "fuller" is also described as textured and rivaling the Denon D2000 and not overpowering. If Best Buy or Amazon offers a liberal return policy, you could be the one to test them out and give them a go at gaming with little risk 

Fa11ou7,
Interesting, please post impressions when you have them set up  if you like them, you can always add pads or an amp upgrade once you can afford them. As a general rule of thumb, don't expect adding an amp to make such a large change as to sound like a different headphone, unless the headphone really needs the juice to play at all, like a Stax (costing considerably more than $57). I may eat my words once my custom tube amp arrives, but even with the challenging-to-amp Q701, I still appreciate it for what it is, and detect improvement over my other headphones on the same audio hardware.



mjonir said:


> Ah, just found a message from PurpleAngel saying that at most there isn't much difference between the two versions: "beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-for-classical-music"
> 
> Since it's one of the only reliable comments from someone who owns both, I'll keep with that



Ah.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Fa11ou7,
> Interesting, please post impressions when you have them set up
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks Evshrug, your post is encouraging, after reading a little more about the headphones from tdockweiler (see quote below) I was starting to worry that maybe I wasn't geared enough to sufficiently power the Koss TBSE. For the price that I paid for them I really don't think I would have much to regret even if they weren't powered enough. Maybe I can talk my wife into letting me pick up the Headroom Total Airhead amp that tdockweiler talks so much about, which is also at ~$50 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (link). 
   
    


tdockweiler said:


> *Gaming*:
> Xbox 360 (RCA) > RCA to Mini > Fiio E9 (Wow! Note: large jack ONLY!!!)
> Compared to the E11 from Xbox 360 I noticed more foward and fuller mids, clearer sound, more detail and better bass. Biggest difference was soundstage size increase.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

mad lust envy said:


> I'd go with the DT770 pro 80 if you like bass and can't afford the Pro 900. Best positioning I've heard on ANY headphone. It's a really immersive headphone.




DT770 pro 80s have good bass and positioning? Did not know... I was thinking of some for dubstep and to use when my wife watches here comes Honey Booboo....

Also I really really really want to try those K550 if anyone knows any stores that sell them. E.G. major stores, best buy, etc.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> DT770 pro 80s have good bass and positioning? Did not know...


 
   
  It's on the first post. =\


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> It's on the first post. =\


 
  Bro,  I read the first post a good while ago. Don't give me that.....  lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then why did you say you didn't know? Lol.

Also... I wouldn't call it GOOD bass. Just really overemphasized. The bass bleeds into the mids quite a bit, muddying up details. The DT990 Pro is in the same price range and much better at keeping details.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Didn't realize you updated again...  lol Sure looks nicer and that super gaming headphone section was a nice read. I like the fact it has that theatre feel. I think I might buy some Pro 700MKII for dubstep and try them for gaming for lolz.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you mean? The DT770 Pro 80 have been on my list since I created it, lol.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Ok, well I got a pair of PC360's in, and I couldn't wait to try them out with a mixamp, so I went and purchased a Astro A40 set. This is the MixAmp I recieved.
   




   
   




   




   
  The biggest bummer is the use of mini toslink cable instead of standard imo. Also, they got rid of the coaxial input. I have no idea what the STREAM jack is for yet (I assume it is taking the place of the L and R RCA inputs. Still recovering from my wisdom teeth and feel like ****.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Eric_C

Waugh!! Shrink the picture! SHRINK that picture!
   
  You bought an A40 set? So the new headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

WTH, a new design again! What are the far left and right inputs for? Also, Stream? What?

And yes, looks like an EQ button added, and the power button moved...

You can easily get a mini toslink adapter. I prefer the mini optical jacks. The standard ones are prone to breaking (I broke the one on my soundbar and original Mixamp).

Hmm, I might have to put my Mixamp 5.8 up for sale, and get the new wired Mixamp out of sheer curosity, and the fact that I'm always tethered to USB anyways.


----------



## calpis

Strange that astro has made no mention of the redesign on their twitter, homepage, or forums. The DSP button looks neat though. Those 2 jacks on the far left and right on the front would be for daisy chaining the mixamps for a lan setup.
   
  Quick question burritoboy, did you buy this direct from astro?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Sorry about the huge pictures. I tried using a spoiler tag, but no joy.

MLE, I believe the left and right inputs are for daisy chaining...

I purchased this from Best Buy this evening.

-Erik


----------



## calpis

Had no idea bestbuy carried astro stuff in store.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

mad lust envy said:


> What do you mean? The DT770 Pro 80 have been on my list since I created it, lol.




I know that. I was commenting how you've updated again. Also I don't remember reading about the DT770 being bassy and position which as you put I find quite an odd conundrum. Here is amazing positioning! Now we drown it out with bass..... Reminds me something Dr. Strangelove would say. 



> [Strangelove admits that he investigated making such a machine]
> Dr. Strangelove: Based on the findings of the report, my conclusion was that this idea was not a practical deterrent for reasons which at this moment must be all too obvious.


----------



## ruuku

calpis said:


> Had no idea bestbuy carried astro stuff in store.



I'd imagine its SK's influence... though it makes a lot of sense, as you can buy Turtle Beach and Tritton in Best Buy.


----------



## Mjonir

I'm curious too about that new Mixamp. Will it still be able to do virtual surround if it only takes jack as input, and not optical anymore? 
   
  EDIT: Oh, my bad, just realized it's a Mini-TOSLINK, not a Jack. Still, looks less nice in my opinion if you're not in pro gaming.
   
  Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I know that. I was commenting how you've updated again. Also I don't remember reading about the DT770 being bassy and position which as you put I find quite an odd conundrum. Here is amazing positioning! Now we drown it out with bass..... Reminds me something Dr. Strangelove would say.


 
   
  I'm currently buying a DT770, but the 250ohm version. It's said to be a bit less bassy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, the new mini toslink jack is the same as the regular optical, all you have to do is get a toslink to mini toslink adapter. Seriously. I'd be surprised if it didn't come with one.

I completely forgot about daisy chaining. Useful for nobody. 

Actually, I'd rather sell the Mixamp 5.8 and save up for a receiver. Might as well get one that converts DTS to DH, HDMI and all.


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, got that Philips CitiScape Uptown today. Burned it in for a few hours, fired up the Xbox and the SU-DH1, and...for gaming, I'm pretty let down.
   
  For some reason, it has trouble making the positional cues stand out. The HTF600 doesn't have that problem, though it's semi-open instead of fully closed.
   
  I might still use it as a portable headphone (particularly with my 3DS), or I might sell it. Too early for me to decide right now.
   
  As for the new Mixamp, I'm not sure I like the changed ports from the Mixamp Pro revision we've known for the last few years. As it was, it would connect to just about anything that wasn't an HDMI source or a DTS source.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So basically like the ES7 and M50 were for me. Fantastic music headphone, but not good for gaming.

How's ther tonal balance on the Uptowns? Bassy and sparkly, or bassy and smooth? Sure it's bassy, either way, lol. I like my sparkle though.


----------



## Mjonir

About the new Mixamp, I asked the site where I'm buying mine. This is the new 2013 version, more info on this page in French: http://www.pure-gaming.fr/magasin/Produit/326/65/peripheriques/accessoires/astrogaming/mixamptop.html
   
  To sum up: Smaller, lighter, new optical port, and an equalizer with 4 profiles and the possibility to create/download them on the astrogaming website.
   
   
  I should be receiving this one. I guess it's ok since I only want to use it for Dolby, so I only need the optical in and nothing else.
   
  burritoboy9984, can you confirm that you received a toslink -> mini-toslink converter?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So basically like the ES7 and M50 were for me. Fantastic music headphone, but not good for gaming.
> How's the tonal balance on the Uptowns? Bassy and sparkly, or bassy and smooth? Sure it's bassy, either way, lol. I like my sparkle though.


 
   
  Others say it's a slight V or U shaped FR. To my ears, it sounds reasonably balanced in that I don't find any area of the spectrum really overtaking the rest with the kind of music I listen to.
   
  Bass is there, but it's not really pronounced like the HTF600, especially in the sub-bass region. It certainly doesn't detract from the mids.
   
  As for smooth vs. sparkly treble, I haven't honed my audiophile sense enough to pick out one or the other yet, but one thing's for sure: no dynamic I've heard has sparkling, revealing clarity like a Stax Lambda (any of them), and the Uptown hasn't changed that. Has your experience with the HE-400 similarly spoiled you when it comes to traditional dynamic/moving-coil drivers?
   
  I tried gaming with it some more, and the positional cues with DH are there if I listen for them. But they seem to get lost in the mix during a heated firefight unless you're paying attention, exactly the moment where you DON'T want to have issues with knowing where everything is coming from. The soundstage seems a bit oval-shaped, with front and rear being the short sides. Clearly, soundstage that's acceptable for general stereo music listening just doesn't cut it for gaming with any sort of binaural HRTF surround mix.
   
  I've never heard an ES7 or M50, so I can't comment on those.


----------



## Mjonir

Back on the mixamp again, found this page: http://worthplaying.com/article/2012/8/25/news/86886/

 2 new infos on there:
  - The particularity of this revision is that it features upgradeable firmware. Good thing.
  - The "stream" input is apparently just the new name of "PC mic". I can't see how it could be different since there it no other "mic" port, and it would be extremely surprising if there were none


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What's surprising is that the article states earley 2013, but it's already been released. Anyways, the article is old, as it confuses the DSP button for the power button.

In short, it seems to be the wired headset-less equivalent of the A50.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Yes, it comes with a mini toslink to toslink cable.

MLE, which recievers support DH out of the box? I currently have AXPRO's hooked up to the pre outs of a Denon 3310 and an HK 3600, but neither support DH as far as I can tell. I tried Dolby headphone several years ago (ax720's), and I wasn't very impressed. I'm much more impressed with the PC360's and Mixamp combo, but I couldn't quite determine directionality nearly as well as I can with the AXPRO's. Not sure if it's because I've been using 5.1 surround headphones forever, or not. Also, I only spent about 30 minutes comparing and contrasting the 2, perhaps when I have more play time with them (and I'm not hopped up on pain killers from my wisdom teeth), I'll warm up to them.

-Erik


----------



## rabinzero

For anyone that doesn't plan on doing a lot of mobile gaming and has the space, I highly recommend a receiver.  I bought an HK335 for a sweet price and have never looked back.  The endless tweaks that can be done and end of tons of optical switchers and cords all over the place.  It's freakin awesome!  Which reminds me, I need to take a pic of my setup.  Again, receivers with DH is the way to go.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Others say it's a slight V or U shaped FR. To my ears, it sounds reasonably balanced in that I don't find any area of the spectrum really overtaking the rest with the kind of music I listen to.
> 
> 
> I tried gaming with it some more, and the positional cues with DH are there if I listen for them. But they seem to get lost in the mix during a heated firefight unless you're paying attention, exactly the moment where you DON'T want to have issues with knowing where everything is coming from. The soundstage seems a bit oval-shaped, with front and rear being the short sides. Clearly, soundstage that's acceptable for general stereo music listening just doesn't cut it for gaming with any sort of binaural HRTF surround mix.


 
   
  Ooh man did I dodge a bullet, I almost picked these up the other day when they were on sale for $50 but ended up getting the Koss Tony Bennett instead. I would not have liked the V/U FR at all and the Koss are supposed to be just the opposite. Dock said that the Koss had a really good soundstage (not in reference to gaming tho) with the M50 pads so hopefully it will play nice with DH but I'll let you know when they get here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

V/U shape is where it's at!


----------



## washu9

Is there any way we can compile a list of AV receivers that have dolby headphone feature?
  The feature used to be on every receiver, but in recent year, more and more manufacturer ditch it for some reason.
  I suppose to save some cost on licensing it.
   
  Having a receiver as dolby headphone mixer should be a better value option than getting the Beyer Headzone.  
  For some models, it should be cheaper, have far more input and format support (DTS anyone?), and you can still use it for a small home theater setup.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

I have a dumb question. Why is daisy chaining mixamps useful?


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> I have a dumb question. Why is daisy chaining mixamps useful?


 
   
  I assume it's for "pro gaming" teams on a LAN. They can set up the Mixamps and have a dedicated wired channel for chat instead of using the network based one. So better quality (no compression) and no lags in chat.
   
  ... but unless you're really in that particular situation, it's useless.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Is there any way we can compile a list of AV receivers that have dolby headphone feature?
> The feature used to be on every receiver, but in recent year, more and more manufacturer ditch it for some reason.
> I suppose to save some cost on licensing it.
> 
> ...


 
  About 99% of all Yamaha receivers come with their own "Silent Cinema" headphone surround sound.


----------



## calpis

Harman Kardon and Denon had DH in their receivers up until 2009, everything from their low to high end. Currently, Marantz seems to be the last manufacture to still use DH but I think it only from their mid to high end receivers has it.
   
  Just about every receiver manufacture has their own version of a virtual headphone dsp now, but it unclear whether some of those are better than DH or not.


----------



## Burns11

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Others say it's a slight V or U shaped FR. To my ears, it sounds reasonably balanced in that I don't find any area of the spectrum really overtaking the rest with the kind of music I listen to.
> 
> Bass is there, but it's not really pronounced like the HTF600, especially in the sub-bass region. It certainly doesn't detract from the mids.
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, same here, the Uptowns are good for music and movies, really bad for positional gaming (great for games where you don't need positioning). 
   
  BTW Aurvana Live are back down under $80 on Amazon after being $100 for a long time.  I'm still trying to find a trustworthy review of the Sony Pulse, specifically in terms of positional audio, and I'd really like to see someone use them with Dolby Headphone instead of the PS3 (presumably, since it only works with the PS3) created virtual surround.


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Harman Kardon and Denon had DH in their receivers up until 2009, everything from their low to high end. Currently, Marantz seems to be the last manufacture to still use DH but I think it only from their mid to high end receivers has it.
> 
> Just about every receiver manufacture has their own version of a virtual headphone dsp now, but it unclear whether some of those are better than DH or not.


 
  Are you sure about this?  I don't see anything on surround sound emulation in the documentation of my Denon 3312 (last year model).
  Haven't tried it though.
   
  Edit:  Never mind, just rechecked some websites on it. You're right.  It should have some sort of virtual surround for 2 speaker/headphone setup.
  I need to take another look at the manual for it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Are you sure about this?  I don't see anything on surround sound emulation in the documentation of my Denon 3312 (last year model).
> Haven't tried it though.


 
  Think it's been a bit longer than 2009, cause I have a 2008 and 2010 model Denon, and they don't support DH. Also, I thought my HK 3600 supported DH from a couple of reviews around the net, but it has "Harman Headphone" and not DH.
   
  -Erik


----------



## calpis

I really don't remember the exact year Denon stopped, could've been in '07. I was looking denons before but they were already out of production and the few that were on ebay were over priced. I settled on a yamaha and later upgraded to an hk avr-247.
   
  I don't believe denon ever explicitly stated that any of their receivers had DH in any of their print. Instead, I had to find actual pictures of the front of the receiver to look for the DH logo next to the headphone jack. Also, I think that I was wrong earlier and that denon only had DH starting on their mid tier line.
   
  It's kinda hard to remember exact details from 4 years ago.


----------



## Evshrug

Yamaha's Silent Cinema definitely works, and it works without making rear positional cues significantly quieter, but I can perceive the left-right channel delays especially in rear cues (like an echo), the soundstage feels a little large no matter what DSP I choose, and overall I felt the Recon3D's THX TruStudio Pro was more nuanced and refined. Silent Cinema was working pretty well (probably better in movies), but it may just be that the Recon3D is better suited to my (somewhat big) ears. YMMV

Also, I took my AD700s out of their box out of curiosity, and I was impressed. I honestly felt they fulfilled everything I want while gaming, and either its easier amping requirements or general soundstage character seemed to have a slight edge over the AKG Q701's soundstage, straight off the Recon3D. If I didn't listen to much music (which I do, more and more, especially now that I'm working at our local radio station), I would sell the Q701 just because my gaming experience doesn't scale up with the cost increase. But the Q701 is everything I want for music, and does excel in gaming. Still excited to see what feeding it $$$ in a nice amp will do.


----------



## Paradux

Can anyone recommend me an amp for the DT770 Pro 80ohm + Mixamp combo? I was thinking E9 (so I don't have to get a new sound card!) or E11, both in my price range, but I'd really like one with an EQ to reduce bass rather than boost it! What are people using for their Mixamp combos?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





paradux said:


> Can anyone recommend me an amp for the DT770 Pro 80ohm + Mixamp combo? I was thinking E9 (so I don't have to get a new sound card!) or E11, both in my price range, but I'd really like one with an EQ to reduce bass rather than boost it! What are people using for their Mixamp combos?


 
  I would guess you would not need an extra amplifier for using 80-ohm headphones with the Miz-Amp.


----------



## Naingolann

an E17, perhaps?


----------



## Eric_C

paradux said:


> Can anyone recommend me an amp for the DT770 Pro 80ohm + Mixamp combo? I was thinking E9 (so I don't have to get a new sound card!) or E11, both in my price range, but I'd really like one with an EQ to reduce bass rather than boost it! What are people using for their Mixamp combos?




Why would you need a new sound card?
Does your sound card output the kind of 5.1 or 7.1 signal that the MixAmp needs to function properly?

If this is for strictly PC gaming, a sound card might actually be all you need, not a MixAmp.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would guess you would not need an extra amplifier for using 80-ohm headphones with the Miz-Amp.


 
  Oh you definitely need some decent amping for the DT770s and according to MLE the mixamp isn't enough.
   


naingolann said:


> an E17, perhaps?


 

   
  It's a little pricey. Does it do more than the E7 realistically?
   
   



eric_c said:


> Why would you need a new sound card?
> Does your sound card output the kind of 5.1 or 7.1 signal that the MixAmp needs to function properly?
> If this is for strictly PC gaming, a sound card might actually be all you need, not a MixAmp.


   
  It's for both console and PC  I can output 7.1 from my on board sound card but obv. a Fiio DAC would be better. Just a bonus really.


----------



## DarkAndroid

Didnt know that there was a headphone gaming forum on here. I need some advice on which gaming headphone to buy.
  I am planning on getting an Xbox 360 soon and I am very interested in getting surround sound through headphones. I own a pair of Audio-Technica M50 and also the Sennheiser HD 598, which Ive heard are pretty good for gaming. However, I was thinking of getting the Earforce XP500, since it is wireless and would support voicechat. Is the Earforce worth the $220 or am I better off just getting a Mixamp and pairing with the headphones I have?
  
  Edit: Okay, did a little bit of reading and it seems the XP500 is not a good headphone for gaming compared to other headphones. The HD 598 seems to be very good for gaming because of its soundstage. I've decided to order a Mixamp, but now the problem is that it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Does anyone one know where they are available at the moment?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





paradux said:


> Oh you definitely need some decent amping for the DT770s and according to MLE the mixamp isn't enough.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a little pricey. Does it do more than the E7 realistically?


 
  Should be better than the E7. IIRC, it should have a treble *and* bass EQ in it as well. It's kinda pricey, that I agree, but it does everything you want and should drive those DT770 with no troubles.
  Quote: 





darkandroid said:


> Didnt know that there was a headphone gaming forum on here. I need some advice on which gaming headphone to buy.
> I am planning on getting an Xbox 360 soon and I am very interested in getting surround sound through headphones. I own a pair of Audio-Technica M50 and also the Sennheiser HD 598, which Ive heard are pretty good for gaming. However, I was thinking of getting the Earforce XP500, since it is wireless and would support voicechat. Is the Earforce worth the $220 or am I better off just getting a Mixamp and pairing with the headphones I have?
> 
> Edit: Okay, did a little bit of reading and it seems the XP500 is not a good headphone for gaming compared to other headphones. The HD 598 seems to be very good for gaming because of its soundstage. I've decided to order a Mixamp, but now the problem is that it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Does anyone one know where they are available at the moment?


 
  HD598 are good, especially if it's your first serious pair of heaphones. You don't tell us where you're from, so I can't really suggest you where to get a Mixamp. One thing I can say though, is that if you don't care about online chat, then you could just grab an used Ear Force DSS (first version preferably) from ebay or somewhere else for cheap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

darkandroid said:


> Didnt know that there was a headphone gaming forum on here. I need some advice on which gaming headphone to buy.
> I am planning on getting an Xbox 360 soon and I am very interested in getting surround sound through headphones. I own a pair of Audio-Technica M50 and also the Sennheiser HD 598, which Ive heard are pretty good for gaming. However, I was thinking of getting the Earforce XP500, since it is wireless and would support voicechat. Is the Earforce worth the $220 or am I better off just getting a Mixamp and pairing with the headphones I have?
> 
> 
> Edit: Okay, did a little bit of reading and it seems the XP500 is not a good headphone for gaming compared to other headphones. The HD 598 seems to be very good for gaming because of its soundstage. I've decided to order a Mixamp, but now the problem is that it seems to be out of stock everywhere. Does anyone one know where they are available at the moment?




Hmm... are you buying the 360 new? I have a 360 Slim I wanna sell, if you're interested, pm me. Also, I have the Mixamp 5.8, which I'm considering selling for a receiver.


----------



## Sharp-Shooter

Hello, i do not know which one of these headphones are the best for gaming, im looking for comfy, good directionality, and ofcourse good sound, which one would YOU Choose and why?

 AKG Q701 
 Audio Technica
 Sennheiser HD 598 
 Audio Technica ATH-AD900

 is there any other headphones i should consider?

 thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you don't have an amp, I suggest the HD598. If you have an amp, the Q701. Your second entry say says Audio Technica. Which model?

Do you like a lot of bass, or balanced sound? Also, are you using something that gives you virtual surround, like Dolby Headphone? What kind of music you prefer? All these things help.


----------



## ruuku

sharp-shooter said:


> Hello, i do not know which one of these headphones are the best for gaming, im looking for comfy, good directionality, and ofcourse good sound, which one would YOU Choose and why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I recently re-purchased a set of AD900s...lol. They were modified, re-cabled, and on the classifieds for pretty cheap. When properly amped, the Q701 deliver a much more fulfilling experience, than compared to the bass shy AD900s. I bought them already knowing their sound signature, which completely changes one's impressions. I would say that the Q is a much more well rounded 'phone, that will sound better on many more genres than the AD900s (esp. bass heavy tracks). With the AD900 you hear bass, but don't feel it, like with the Qs. 

I believe that the Q's are harder to amp than both the Senns and the AT's though... like MLE said you might want to list what setup you're using in terms of source, amp, musical tastes, and usage of the hp (other than gaming: music? movies? ect.) 

The AD900 is in no way a bad hp, actually I quite like it, but buying it new was a little more than I wanted to spend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sold my NFB-5. Wii-U here I come! Assuming I can get it now, lol.


----------



## ArdentWings

Hi, I was interested in buying a good pair of PC headphones. My current setup is a cheapy HTF-600 and Xonar DG.
   
  I was interested in the AD-700s as they seem like a real solid for sound staging. If I did get the AD-700s, would my Xonar DG handle them well? Or would a better mixamp be a good idea? 
   
  Also I was interested in the part where you mentioned the DT770s have the sound placement you've ever heard, but are ruined by bass. Is it possible to fix this with EQ? Because the DT770s 80 ohm were something I was interested in for music listening as well so they could possibly fulfill both my needs if the bass can be tamed to reach comparable levels of detail as the AD-700s.  The DT770s most definitely require an amp from what I've seen so far, correct?
   
  My current selection of headphones are the Monoprice 8323 (felt like everything was so dark and veiled), Incipio F38 (felt like it was missing something), and my HTF-600 which feels rather balanced to me (although I am pretty inexperienced).  The other set of phones I have are the IEM Senn CX-300 II which I do enjoy mostly, but get uncomfortable to wear. (Not sure if I'm considered a bass head, but I feel I may be.)  Also currently using the Zalman Mic, although I will be ordering the DX mic as per your suggestion.
   
  TL;DR Can the DT770's bass be tamed through EQ to the point it can compete with the AD-700 for spatial awareness?
   
  edit spelling


----------



## ruuku

The AD700s will do well with almost any source (the Xonar DG should be fine), as they don't require much power. Depending on what ohm model you buy you might be able to power the DT770s, WILL require additional amping however however they will benefit from additional power. Even with bass boosting I don't think the Ad700s will approach the levels of the DT770s. Although this is an unfair comparison between open and closed headphones. If you consider yourself anywhere near a basshead I would avoid the AD700s. With DBFB on (sony bass boost) and bass at +4 I get an acceptable amount of bass out of my AD900s which have a higher bass curve than the AD700s, but no where near the levels I get out of a pair of DT990pros. 

Just looking at the numbers on the first page, I really think any level of Eq will enable the DT770s to compare against the AD700s for competitive gaming (maybe MLE can shed more light on this). They are inherently different headphones.Re-read first post...lol. I defer this to someone who owns dt770pros.

I think the better question is what exactly are you looking for at what price range? If your only basing your criteria on only competitive gaming at the $90-$120 mark then the AD700s are pretty unbeatable. If you're looking for an all around headphone at 150-170 then the DT770pros would fit the bill. If you see yourself going further in this wallet-consuming hobby then a proper amp plus Q701's would be the best middle ground (my opinion). 

As for the mixamp, are you occasionally playing on Xbox/PS3 (in addition to your PC gaming)? This is mainly a requirement for those that need chat + DH. If you don't need/want chat on consoles then there are other capable options out there like the TB DSS and Creative Recon units. I don't believe that the addition of a Mixamp for PC will make much of a difference than if you were to use the DH out of the Xonar. If your only gaming on PC then money could be better spent on a dedicated headphone amp.


----------



## ArdentWings

Well if I went and bought the AD700 there is a good chance I would want a second pair for music as they are lacking in the lows as I've heard from many places.  But with his comment that they have the best distance and sound staging he's ever seen, only it is ruined by bass. I was hoping that maybe I could have an EQ setting for gaming that would tone down the bass enough to compete somewhat with the AD-700s (as long as it comes close I would be happy, otherwise I'll just buy the dedicated pair and probably just skip on a music pair for now) and an EQ for music which would give me basically the dual headphones setup I'm looking for in 1 headset. It would be much preferred if possible because the AD-700 would solely be for tryhard gaming and I wouldn't enjoy the sound at all, just the staging. 
   
  It really sparked my interest as just a few days ago I was wondering about upgrading for music (was actually thinking about something for the gym and connecting to my phone with a portable amp of some sort but decided against that. Didn't seem practical and I would feel like a tool wearing such large headphones at the gym. I hate how everyone there is wearing beats when I know how crappy they are.)
   
  Anyway I'm ranting off topic, but the point is I was thinking about getting a pair of m50's since I've heard so much about them and I had seen mention of how great DT770s are (although pricier).  So when I started looking for a gaming headset and saw that the DT770s also had great positional accuracy I was very "HELL YEAH I'M BUYIN 'EM" but I am not so sure they will measure up since MLE did give a heavy warning that the bass is far too powerful for such a use.
   
  Question really comes down to: can the bass of the DT770 be tamed through EQ for competitive levels of positional accuracy and detail (he mentions bass is far too strong, but I saw somewhere else that it can be somewhat fixed with EQ and I was just wondering if he put that into consideration during this review)
   
  P.S. No I'm pretty much strictly a PC gamer. None of my consoles go online. Although being able to use the headset on them might be nice for the occasional time I do.
   
  Edit: Just read his article on the 770 Premium rather than 80 ohm pros and noticed "Competitive: 3/10 (can possibly be a 9/10 if the bass is tamed)". Does this apply to the 770 Pro 80 ohms as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, if you have something like the E17 that has bass controls, you can surely lower the bass bloat a bit. This may not be a bad idea... hmm... I could sell my HE400, get the DT990/32 vand DT770 Pro 80 and reduce the bass...

I'm gonna go home and try that with my UE500 which has extreme bass bloat with the comply foam tips. I haven't tried bass reduction yet. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Mjonir

ArdentWings -> If you want more info on the DT770 Pro, I suggest you read the last pages where I heavily discussed it. For your question, 2 pieces of important info: The DT770 250ohm is said to have slightly less bass and overall more equal sound.
   
   
  Paradux -> The Mixamp is currently out of stock everywhere because they're re-stocking with the 2013 version. And it will have a built-in equalizer 
  There are pictures a few pages back.


----------



## ArdentWings

Haha I take it that it wasn't a horrible idea by the fact that you are considering selling your setup and switching to it? I'm still a little newbie when it comes to the high end audio scene but I am very interested in learning as the small jumps I've made in my quality of audio have been absolute mind blowing fun. I just don't want to spend too much too fast.
   
  Are you thinking of trying it soon? If so please report back with results.
   
  If not then perhaps I will just have to take the plunge and try it myself (although I doubt I would be able to properly balance it seeing as how I _am_ new at this).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably not. IF I sell the HE-400, I'll most likely just have the 990/32 (or Pro 900) and call it a day.

As for you trying it (if getting the E17), I'd probably just put the bass at -4 or -6, and possibly the treble at -2 or so. Lowering both would be mean the mids would be brough out more, which is something the DT770 Pro 80 needs. The DT770 Pro 80 is quite veiled sounding, so I'd probably just stick with bass reduction alone. The E17 only allows up to -12 I believe, which would probably make any headphone bass lite.


----------



## ArdentWings

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> ArdentWings -> If you want more info on the DT770 Pro, I suggest you read the last pages where I heavily discussed it. For your question, 2 pieces of important info: The DT770 250ohm is said to have slightly less bass and overall more equal sound.
> 
> 
> Paradux -> The Mixamp is currently out of stock everywhere because they're re-stocking with the 2013 version. And it will have a built-in equalizer
> There are pictures a few pages back.


 
   
  All good info and I may have to consider that, but I was also interested in the 80 ohm version as it may at some point be plugged into a smartphone. The 250 ohm would more than likely still have the same positional accuracy as the 80 ohm I assume?  What exactly is the benefit/difference/reason to go with the different ohm choices anyway? (as a general question not specifically regarding the dt770)
   

 Edit: Posted twice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you guys think? I sell my HE400, and get this:





32ohm, of course. 3 tone, red, black, and silver (pads and the tabs). REAL leather headband, not the standard pleather found on the premium Beyers.

It'd cost me about $440 total, but I am looking at keeping these forever. Because MANUFAKTUR is so expensive, it'd make me NOT want to sell them.

Bah, probably not. Amazon has used ones for less than half the price. Aesthetics is one thing... $200+ dollars in my pocket is another.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





ardentwings said:


> All good info and I may have to consider that, but I was also interested in the 80 ohm version as it may at some point be plugged into a smartphone. The 250 ohm would more than likely still have the same positional accuracy as the 80 ohm I assume?  What exactly is the benefit/difference/reason to go with the different ohm choices anyway? (as a general question not specifically regarding the dt770)


 
   
  I've read absolutely no mention of any difference in positional accuracy between the 2, so I'd assume it's the same. For what's following, keep in mind that I'm still noobish and don't own the actual headphones yet, I'm just repeating what I read. I'll be able to give my own opinion when it's delivered.
   
  For the 770 beyers, the ohm difference also means a slight difference in built. I already mentioned it affects the sound, and the 250 also have a coiled cable instead of a straight one (helps to keep things tidy if you ask me). A comment from another thread on head-fi regarding the Beyers:
   
   
  Quote:


jupitreas said:


> There are some advantages to a headphone with high impedance. A higher impedance allows for more turns of wire to be used in the voice coil of the driver. This can improve how a headphone sounds and is the reason why Beyerdynamic's higher impedance models sound slightly better than their low-impedance versions.
> 
> With this said, with today's technology, low impedance phones sound awesome and I don't think there is any real advantage in using a higher impedance headphone anymore. If you have a choice of impedance (Beyer) and have a nice amp, you should go for the higher impedance model but otherwise you shouldnt worry about this.


   
  In general, a high-impedance headphone will help you avoid sound distortions if the output impedance of your source or amp is too high compared to the headphones. However, higher impedance means it needs more voltage to work, thus at the same voltage the volume will be more quiet. If you have one, you then have to turn your amp up a little, which can be a good thing too. Also potentially less EM noise, but I don't think it'd make a lot of difference?
   
   
  To sup up: If you're planning to have a good amp in all cases anyway, the higher impedance can't hurt. However for use with portable devices, the headphones probably won't work with them.
   
  For using the 80 ohm version directly with a smartphone, I've read people both saying it works and it doesn't. I assume it depends a lot on the phone brand and regional volume regulations. If it does work, I wouldn't expect to fully exploit the Beyer on a phone. It's a question that I've never seen fully answered though.
   
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> What do you guys think? I sell my HE400, and get this:


   
  Damn these look nice! What's the shipping cost portion in those 440$?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. It'd literally be $440 total. I think it makes sense just to get the standard ones for $190 total, don't you think? Lol. Color schemes are sexy, but it's not $250 sexier. That's a whole other headphone!

edit: In any case, I went and bought the Like New DT990/32. I'm almost *POSITIVE* it's gonna be the exact same one I returned a few weeks ago. 

The only way I can realistically upgrade now, would be to get a new desktop amp and whatever headphone I'd like, which is no longer what I WANT to do. Sticking to the DT990/32 and E17 just makes sense. Easily driven by it, treble reduction if I ever feel the treble is too much (and it never was last time I had it), and all the bass presence I was wanting off the HE400 (without boosting bass).


----------



## Mjonir

Went on the "MANUFAKTUR" to check what's possible and drool a bit. If I were you, I'd have chosen the black velour pads to stick with the color scheme, looks much better to me like this:
   

   
  Anyway YES, it's terribly overpriced. Compared to _new _retail prices, it's about 2.5x more expensive. On the other hand, they look really, really nice. Whether it's _too_ expensive depends on you and your wallet 
   
  I wouldn't buy it at this price, but I wonder why Beyer doesn't sell a few presets for "cheap".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I don't like black velours. They absorb dust like nobody's business, and ends up looking dirty (basically did everything to keep the HE400 velours from taking in dust, and yet they still got dusty). I thought the silver velours made the Pro 900 look sexy, and was disappointed when they took them out for another set of black velours. The contrast is better, IMHO. That has TOO much black, and nothing to match up to the silver tabs.

I sent Beyerdynamic a email, asking if we were able to send in our DT990s to be Manufaktured. 

I may end up with a pair of Pro 900s in the future. They can be driven by the E17, and the treble reduction WOULD benefit them.


----------



## Mjonir

Oh, on the subject of impedance, I just found this: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/service/faqs/faq-for-headphones.html
   
  I had already read the exact same text on other websites, but none of them cited this as their source (or at least I didn't pick up that it was official). I can't believe I never found this page before!
   
  Official Beyerdynamic explanation for the difference between impedances:
   
   
  Quote: 





> *Beyerdynamic* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The impedance is determined by the voice coil (dynamic headphones), which is a winded copper wire (coated to avoid a short-circuit). This copper wire is available in nearly every length, but not in every gauge (thickness) and a thicker wire has less resistance than a thin wire ("less fits through"). The magnetic field of the voice coil depends on the number of windings of the coil, causing a low impedance system to use a thicker (also heavier) wire and since the membrane foil can't be infinitely light-weight, the moving mass (voice coil and diaphragm) is relatively high. It's pretty clear that a higher mass can't move as easily (following an audio signal) as a lower mass. This low mass can easily be accomplished with thinner (lower weight) wire, but the thinner wire has a higher impedance. This means that the DT 770 PRO with 250 ohms sound more natural, but plays (depending on the used headphone amplifier) not as loud as the 80 ohms version.
> 
> The transducers of the 80 ohms versions are stronger and more powerful, a bit more low-mid accentuated and therefore this version is ideal for powerful reproducing of low-frequency material f.e. coming from a bass guitar. The 250 ohms version sounds more smooth and voluminous and can be used for mixing situations within the studio to analyse the whole mix.


----------



## JerseyTiger

This is my first post, and not sure if I should post in this topic or the recommendations topic.  First I want to thank everyone that has participated in these discussion and particularly Mad Lust Envy for taking so much time in reviews and write ups that really helps out noobs.  I apologize for the length of this post and thank anyone who takes the time to read it.
   
  As a little background to what led me here, I was almost set on getting Astro A50s and before ordering was just googling other alternatives.  I didn't like the style of some of the "expensive" brand headsets, but liked a lot of the headphones so I started to research the possibility of headphones and stand alone mics.  That led me to this thread.  This thread then led me to stay up to 2am on Thursday night and 1am last night reading through more threads, opinions, video reviews, pictures, and prices of various headsets.  I know the information is out there and I've gone though enough to have an idea of what I would need and want, but want so "professional" opinions on my specific needs. 
   
  I'm a PS3 gamer and that is going to probably be 65% of what these are used for.  I've owned two pairs of headphones (other than ear buds or on hear headphones that came with walkman/discman that I got as a kid).  One was an over ear set I got probably 10 years ago when I started playing guitar and annoying everyone within 1/2 a mile.  The other was a cheap plantoronics headset I used for gaming.  I've never owned a surround system.  I want to get good surround sound without investing in a $3000 to $4000 in a quality surround system.  As I said mostly for gaming, but experiencing movies in surround would also be a plus.  I'd say I would guess my listening would be 65% gaming, 25% movies, 10% music.  I play a decent variety of game types, but my online play is mostly limited to FPS.  Movies I like everything from action to drama.  Music I'd say mostly Hard Rock / Metal (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, GnR, Anthrax, nothing ridiculous) and classic rock, but also some interest in new wave, surf rock, some classical, eclectic mix.  Not much bass specific music except the harder stuff should punch a little. 
   
  As of now I'm leaning heavily towards the Q701, unless a number of people tell me it's really not match my interests above, which I don't think will be the case.  My second pick is the DT-990.  The rest is kinda lumped in behind those unless someone can make a convincing persuasive argument.  I don't want to fall into the trap of researching so much that I just can't make a decision.  I have no frame of reference since I've never had a surround system nor good pair of headphones, so my thought is I will probably be happy if not blown away by whatever I wind up getting.  My reasons for liking the Q701 is #1 the very positive reviews, #2 I think it looks fantastic, #3 I really like the idea of the detachable cable.  I know looks really aren't important in the long run, but for some reason I just don't like the looks of the DT-990.
   
  As for the surround simulator I am leaning towards the Recon3d USB.  I don't see many other options for me.  The mix amp is not sold by itself any more, and I can't justify buying an entire A40 set just for the mixamp.  Same thing for the AX720.  I keep reading how great dolby headphone is, but there really is very few options for console gamers.  What really is throwing me is that there is no DTS option for the Recon 3D.  My question to everyone here is, since I've never heard it, will I really miss it?  Will Dolby Digital be enough?  If someone has a good suggestion to get a good sound card that has dolby headphone without spending twice as much as the Recon3d I would love to hear it.
   
  Amping. This is where I'm kinda lost.  I know there are a thousand options here, and I don't really know what I need.  With the Q701 and Recon3D I'm over $300 and I really don't want to push the $400 boundary as I already thought I was crazy for considering the $300 A50s.  I am slightly concerned about the perceived lack of base in the Q701, but don't want that to be a deal breaker.  Would a Fiio with a base boost be sufficient in getting to a good level without being over powering? Should i get an amp or an amp/DAC? I was leaning towards a Fiio E11 or E10 because they seem to have the power needed without breaking the bank and keeps me under $400.  My setup does not have to be portable.
   
   
  Summary:
  My leaning right now is Q701, Recon3D, Fiio 11 or 10.  I'm a complete noob who has done about 8 hours of reading over the last 2 days to reach this point.  Please offer suggestions that would fit my intent of using the system or reassure me that what I have picked is awesome.  Thank you for any advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually the Mixamp IS sold alone. They are just out of stock at the moment, due to the newer Mixamp's being rolled out. I wholeheartedly advise to wait until it's in stock. The sound quality and virtual surround is noticeably better than the Recon's.

The Q701 deserves more than the E11 provides (they are notorious for needing a LOT of power to get them to their true potential. The E11 alone will make the good, but you'll be basically taxing the E11 and not justifying the $250 plus for the cost of the Q701). You can get a DT990/32 used for like $190 and it WILL sound good off the E11. They are easy to drive in that an amp like the E11 is all that is necessary. You can however get the Q701 and a Fiio E9K to better drive them.


----------



## Mjonir

About the Mixamp, the reason why it's not sold by itself at the moment is that all shops are restocking for the Mixamp 2013, you can find the first pictures and info in the very latest pages of this thread. I'm currently buying one and my seller told me that they should be available by October 20th for US and early November for EU.
   
  What might really interest you is that the 2013 revision has a built-in equalizer with a few profiles that should be tweakable by connecting it to a PC. You could make your adjustments there and be free to consider transparent amplifiers 
   
  You will only miss DTS if you use your card to watch movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock on those equalizers. They usually make things worse. From the impressions on the A50s and the DSPs... I've read that it's best to leave it flat. I'd much rather use actual boosts from audiophile amps, not gaming amps. Fiio's are known to have high quality bass boosting for the price. The one on the E17 is stellar, assuming you don't go overboard. +4 is a massive boost without hurting sound quality. +6 and up are overwhelming. Even the E5's bass boost was pretty good. The one on the Mixamp 5.8 is terrible.


----------



## Mjonir

JerseyTiger -> Trust him and ignore my suggestion on the equalizer then 
   
  MLE -> Oh, back on the DT990 Pro: May I ask why you'd choose them over the DT880 Pro?


----------



## JerseyTiger

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Actually the Mixamp IS sold alone. They are just out of stock at the moment, due to the newer Mixamp's being rolled out. I wholeheartedly advise to wait until it's in stock. The sound quality and virtual surround is noticeably better than the Recon's.
> The Q701 deserves more than the E11 provides (they are notorious for needing a LOT of power to get them to their true potential. The E11 alone will make the good, but you'll be basically taxing the E11 and not justifying the $250 plus for the cost of the Q701). You can get a DT990/32 used for like $190 and it WILL sound good off the E11. They are easy to drive in that an amp like the E11 is all that is necessary. You can however get the Q701 and a Fiio E9K to better drive them.


 
   
  Quote: 





mjonir said:


> About the Mixamp, the reason why it's not sold by itself at the moment is that all shops are restocking for the Mixamp 2013, you can find the first pictures and info in the very latest pages of this thread. I'm currently buying one and my seller told me that they should be available by October 20th for US and early November for EU.
> 
> What might really interest you is that the 2013 revision has a built-in equalizer with a few profiles that should be tweakable by connecting it to a PC. You could make your adjustments there and be free to consider transparent amplifiers
> 
> You will only miss DTS if you use your card to watch movies.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock on those equalizers. They usually make things worse. From the impressions on the A50s and the DSPs... I've read that it's best to leave it flat. I'd much rather use actual boosts from audiophile amps, not gaming amps. Fiio's are known to have high quality bass boosting for the price. The one on the E17 is stellar, assuming you don't go overboard. +4 is a massive boost without hurting sound quality. +6 and up are overwhelming. Even the E5's bass boost was pretty good. The one on the Mixamp 5.8 is terrible.


 
   
   
  Thanks for the quick replies.  I have a few follow-up questions from what you said.  Does the E9K provide a bass boost or would it need a DAC docked to do this?  I see a switch for gain but not boost.  I like that it can be added to though, and if I get it and really like it I suppose I can add an E7 or E17.  Do the Fiio amps come with everything that is needed to hook up, or do I have to by the wires separately?
   
  I knew that MixAmp was sold as stand alone, but it no longer is.  Perhaps it is truely just sold out, you would know better than me.  From the FAQ on the Astro site it seemed to me to be more of a decision by Astro to only sell it with the headset to push headset sales.  Considering how popular the Mixamp is I can't believe they would stop production of the current model months before the release of their new model.  Being that the sound card is the least expensive part of this set up I suppose I can get the Recon3D and be on the lookout for the Mixamp 3 or restocking of the current model.  I just don't want to wait until 2013 to get all of this.  If it does come back in stock on October 20th like Mjonir says than I should still be in the window to return the Recon3D. 
   
  I have a hang up on buying used items, I very rarely do it so i would likely spend the extra money on a new item.  Does the ohm versions of the DT-990 have significant difference in sound quality?  What does the 600 ohm version offer besides the need of a large amp?


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





jerseytiger said:


> Considering how popular the Mixamp is I can't believe they would stop production of the current model months before the release of their new model.  Being that the sound card is the least expensive part of this set up I suppose I can get the Recon3D and be on the lookout for the Mixamp 3 or restocking of the current model.  I just don't want to wait until 2013 to get all of this.  If it does come back in stock on October 20th like Mjonir says than I should still be in the window to return the Recon3D.


 
   
  Well, since they are already selling the Mixamp 2013 version with their headsets, I'd assume it won't be long until they restock them as stand-alone.
   
   
   
  Quote: 





jerseytiger said:


> I have a hang up on buying used items, I very rarely do it so i would likely spend the extra money on a new item.  Does the ohm versions of the DT-990 have significant difference in sound quality?  What does the 600 ohm version offer besides the need of a large amp?


 
   
  Look no further than just above your first post for a theoretical but official explanation from Beyer on this. On the practical side, you'll have to rely on reviews though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mjonir said:


> JerseyTiger -> Trust him and ignore my suggestion on the equalizer then
> 
> MLE -> Oh, back on the DT990 Pro: May I ask why you'd choose them over the DT880 Pro?




Actually, I went with the Premium DT990.

As to why I prefer the DT990 over the DT880? Easy. Bass. I like bassy headphones. The DT990 are one of the very few open headphones that can compete with closed ones in terms of bass, and usually with higher quality (not quantity). The DT880s are well balanced, which isn't exactly what I want. I prefer fun sound, over balanced. In any case, the HE400 is the best of both worlds, both fun and balanced. Planar magic. Still, I want just a little more bass presence.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jerseytiger said:


> Thanks for the quick replies.  I have a few follow-up questions from what you said.  Does the E9K provide a bass boost or would it need a DAC docked to do this?  I see a switch for gain but not boost.  I like that it can be added to though, and if I get it and really like it I suppose I can add an E7 or E17.  Do the Fiio amps come with everything that is needed to hook up, or do I have to by the wires separately?




*The E9K doesn't have a bass boost. Desktop amps don't tend to. I have a feeling Fiio will bring out a desktop amp/dac with bass boost in the future. If you buy the E17, it has a bypass switch which then allows it to pass the bass/treble controls onto whatever amp it's connected to (easiest with the E9K, as it just has to be docked, or you have to buy the Fiio L7 so you can use it with other amps). You may have to buy an RCA male to 3.5mm male cable if you plan on attaching the E9K or other desktop amp to the Mixamp. They can be had for very cheap on Monoprice and possibly Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Male-3-5mm-Stereo-Male-6/dp/B000HDONSK/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1349535272&sr=1-13&keywords=rca+to+3.5mm

^That is a good one, but there are cheaper ones.*



> I knew that MixAmp was sold as stand alone, but it no longer is.  Perhaps it is truely just sold out, you would know better than me.  From the FAQ on the Astro site it seemed to me to be more of a decision by Astro to only sell it with the headset to push headset sales.  Considering how popular the Mixamp is I can't believe they would stop production of the current model months before the release of their new model.  Being that the sound card is the least expensive part of this set up I suppose I can get the Recon3D and be on the lookout for the Mixamp 3 or restocking of the current model.  I just don't want to wait until 2013 to get all of this.  If it does come back in stock on October 20th like Mjonir says than I should still be in the window to return the Recon3D.




*The only one that you can't buy alone anymore is the Mixamp 5.8. The wired Mixamp will be sold alone. It's just out of stock at the moment. Give it time.*



> I have a hang up on buying used items, I very rarely do it so i would likely spend the extra money on a new item.  Does the ohm versions of the DT-990 have significant difference in sound quality?  What does the 600 ohm version offer besides the need of a large amp?




*Me too, but I have bought that very headphone used on Amazon, and it was in perfect condition. You just have to make sure, you buy it off Amazon Warehouse, and not some third party seller.



To quote myself on the ohm differences...




			update: My original review was for the 600ohm. I have recently been using the 32ohm version, and I must say, they're too much alike to consider them different headphones. There may be slight differences, but unless you have them side by side, they're very much the same headphone with different amping requirements. The 32ohm is a lot easier to drive, though they will still want at least portable amp to get the most out of them. The 32ohm I feel is the most versatile, with little tradeoff. Just make sure to buy an amp for it that has a low output impedance (4 ohms or less), as a higher output impedance may add to the already hot treble, and make the bass uncontrolled.

As for differences between the higher ohm DT990, the 32ohm is slightly less refined, and the soundstage is slightly smaller. It's a minor difference. One that wouldn't change my thoughts on it. I actually like the 32ohm version more. The 600ohm is slightly better overall, but to make it better than the 32ohm, you need a pretty good amp to bring out that potential. For most of us, the differences don't justify the hassle. Don't overlook the 32ohm, especially if you're not getting an ideal amp for 600ohm headphones. The 32ohm gets you 95% of the way there, with the benefit of being able to sound very good unamped, and better driven than the 600ohm on all but really good gear. You will still want an amp to bring out their sound quality, like the other Beyers on this guide.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> About the Mixamp, the reason why it's not sold by itself at the moment is that all shops are restocking for the Mixamp 2013, you can find the first pictures and info in the very latest pages of this thread. I'm currently buying one and my seller told me that they should be available by October 20th for US and early November for EU.
> 
> What might really interest you is that the 2013 revision has a built-in equalizer with a few profiles that should be tweakable by connecting it to a PC. You could make your adjustments there and be free to consider transparent amplifiers
> 
> You will only miss DTS if you use your card to watch movies.


 
   
  That's some awesome info right there thanks! I think I'm going to have to save up for the E17 though 
   
  Quote: 





ardentwings said:


> All good info and I may have to consider that, but I was also interested in the 80 ohm version as it may at some point be plugged into a smartphone. The 250 ohm would more than likely still have the same positional accuracy as the 80 ohm I assume?  What exactly is the benefit/difference/reason to go with the different ohm choices anyway? (as a general question not specifically regarding the dt770)
> 
> 
> Edit: Posted twice.


 
   
  I will mention that even the 80 ohms DT770's sound very under powered from any non-amplified source. They 'work' on my iPhone but they suck, quite frankly  If you don't have a portable amp then I would definitely advise against getting them for a smart phone or any device you can't power.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Actually, I went with the Premium DT990.
> As to why I prefer the DT990 over the DT880? Easy. Bass. I like bassy headphones. The DT990 are one of the very few open headphones that can compete with closed ones in terms of bass, and usually with higher quality (not quantity). The DT880s are well balanced, which isn't exactly what I want. I prefer fun sound, over balanced. In any case, the HE400 is the best of both worlds, both fun and balanced. Planar magic. Still, I want just a little more bass presence.


 
   
  Oh, I thought that the MANUFAKTUR line was based on Pro, not Premium. That must be why they don't offer different colors, it's already complicated enough like this 
   
   
  Also out of curiosity, did you have bad experiences with third-party sellers on Amazon? Only for used, or new headphones too?
   
  I'm buying mine new from an Amazon's third party, but it's still time to change (my order was delayed, will have more info on Monday about how long...) ^^'


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The MANUFAKTUR line uses the Premiums as the base.I bought this one, like new for $190.

http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-990-Premium-32-Headphones/dp/B0024NK344/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349538593&sr=8-1&keywords=dt990%2F32

They still have a VERY GOOD used, for $186. Avoid the $126 one, as it's defective, lol. One dead driver, etc. Don't even know why they would bother putting it up on the site, instead of sending it to Beyer to fix it.

As for Amazon, I almost always buy new. This is the first headphone I have bought used on Amazon (well second, since I bought the same headphone a few weeks ago and returned it since I thought I was sticking to just the HE-400). I choose Amazon warehouse, because if anything is wrong with the headphone, you can return it with no hassle. The last time I bought the DT990/32 used, it was petty much in perfect condition, other than the box it came in being a bit mistreated.

BTW, Jerseytiger, I hope you realize the E17 is just a typical stereo amp. I'd much rather play with the Mixamp underamped, than with the E17 alone. Dolby Headphone is important to me. Going back to stereo is like putting blinders on.


----------



## ArdentWings

Thanks for the experienced opinion Paradux. I'm starting to consider just getting the AD-700s for tryhard FPS gaming and a pair of M50s for general use. Cost won't be a whole lot more than the DT770s and with those 2 phones I wouldn't need anything more than I already have in terms of amp and whatnot I don't think.  I know my Xonar DG would power them both fine, would there be a noticeable difference in quality with a better amp/dac? 
   
  I'm still really uncertain about whether to try a DT770 with toned down bass for pro gaming or to just stick with the tried and true AD-700.  I would really love to have the DT770 since I think it is something I would really enjoy listening to, but it's uses seem limited to me if it's not going to run off my smartphone (which honestly I wouldn't even do a whole lot of anyway, I may just skip the M50 for that purpose altogether). And I'm a little uncomfortable spending the $200 on them when I'm not sure they will stack up to the AD-700 with the targeted use of FPS gaming.  They may be more fun, but I'm the type of guy who likes to make use of any possible advantage I can get. I like winning


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





jerseytiger said:


> I knew that MixAmp was sold as stand alone, but it no longer is.  Perhaps it is truely just sold out, you would know better than me.  From the FAQ on the Astro site it seemed to me to be more of a decision by Astro to only sell it with the headset to push headset sales.  Considering how popular the Mixamp is I can't believe they would stop production of the current model months before the release of their new model.  Being that the sound card is the least expensive part of this set up I suppose I can get the Recon3D and be on the lookout for the Mixamp 3 or restocking of the current model.  I just don't want to wait until 2013 to get all of this.  If it does come back in stock on October 20th like Mjonir says than I should still be in the window to return the Recon3D.
> I have a hang up on buying used items, I very rarely do it so i would likely spend the extra money on a new item.


 
   
  May I ask why? If the seller is proven trustworthy (through good feedback left by other buyers) and the product is shown to be in good condition, you can save quite a bit of money by buying used. It's your money, though.
   
  As for the lack of DTS support, it's more likely to be an issue with movies than it is for games, since most console games seem to favor Dolby Digital for whatever reason. (Word is that Microsoft actually requires DD/AC3 support for all X360 games, though Sony makes no such demands out of PS3 developers.)


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





ardentwings said:


> Thanks for the experienced opinion Paradux. I'm starting to consider just getting the AD-700s for tryhard FPS gaming and a pair of M50s for general use. Cost won't be a whole lot more than the DT770s and with those 2 phones I wouldn't need anything more than I already have in terms of amp and whatnot I don't think.  I know my Xonar DG would power them both fine, would there be a noticeable difference in quality with a better amp/dac?
> 
> I'm still really uncertain about whether to try a DT770 with toned down bass for pro gaming or to just stick with the tried and true AD-700.  I would really love to have the DT770 since I think it is something I would really enjoy listening to, but it's uses seem limited to me if it's not going to run off my smartphone (which honestly I wouldn't even do a whole lot of anyway, I may just skip the M50 for that purpose altogether). And I'm a little uncomfortable spending the $200 on them when I'm not sure they will stack up to the AD-700 with the targeted use of FPS gaming.  They may be more fun, but I'm the type of guy who likes to make use of any possible advantage I can get. I like winning


 
  No problem. What I'm aiming for (strapped for cash at the moment!) is my DT770 pros paired with an E17 EQ so I can use it for competitive and fun gaming as well as music. I am aware that the AD-700's are pretty much the dogs for competitive and you'll not need much power behind them. The M50s aren't gonna be great with Dolby Headphone though since they are literally the reverse of the AD-700. Over here those two would set you back around £200 and whereas the DT770 plus E17 combo comes in at around £230, so for me I'd sooner have the better all rounder.


----------



## Fa11ou7

My Tony Bennet Signature Edition (TBSE) came last night and I have to say that I'm pretty impressed by the detail that they give to pretty much anything I listen to. The build quality is really nice too, after I pulled the pads off I was impressed by the hardware underneath. There is a lot of metal in the build and they are still pretty light, compared to my other plastic cans I can really feel the quality. They certainly don't feel like the ~$57 that I paid for them so its nice to know that I got more than I paid for. I would have liked to try plugging them into my Rotel receiver but the it just started pooping out on me the other day and I need to get it repaired. So for the time being I'm just using the Tritton decoder box (from my PC), I will try my PX5 here soon and let you know if I hear any differences. 
   
  Now don't laugh at me, but, after reading all the comments about how the pads from the M50 really expand the sound stage I decided to try out a couple of pairs that I have. I put my PX5 pads on them and it destroyed the sound, I'm sure that is no surpise for most of you but I had to try because they fit. Stock pads are the best at this point.
   
  I forgot to let them burn in a little last night because by the time I went to bed my brain wasn't really functioning anymore. I did get the chance to try out a few different games to see how they worked with DH and they seems to function better than my other cans (all PC btw). Borderlands sounded good with positional ques coming in accurately and game sound was good. Mw3 was just meh but that nothing we didn't already know, positioning ques worked but not as good as Borderlands 2. Dark Souls was pretty bad but that could be because it is 3rd person or because is a pretty rough port. 
   
  Honestly listening to music while catching up on this thread the richer they seem to get, man the sound is awesome. I think I just need to let the titanium drivers burn in because music sounds awesome and each subsequent song seems to get better. Also, my music collection is mostly crappy quality I think the TBSE are good at pointing out crappy music, I'm sticking to my 320kbps or high vbr songs now. My wife is home this weekend so while she is off being a PA student this week I'll test out some more games, PC and Xbox. 
   
  I feel comfortable advising anyone that wants a nice pair of cans for ~$57 grab a pair of these while they are still on sale, I got mine here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't believe in burn in (just mental burn in, letting your ears adjust to the new sound), but I'm glad its working out for you.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Sorry, but I'm short enough on cash right now to bother with buying any more headphones. If anything, I need to SELL things.
   
  Also, it appears to be totally closed. I'm still wondering if there's a single completely closed (not even any bass ports or anything) headphone out there that isn't terrible for use with CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone. The Uptown fails, the HTF600 passes, and while I've never heard the old Denon lineup (D2000/D5000/D7000), word is that those are ported around the earcups, hence the lack of isolation.
   
  As for burn-in, I was pretty skeptical myself...until I got the HTF600. That thing's FR goes on a roller-coaster ride during the first several hours of burn-in, especially the bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pro 900s are closed, isolate well and work well with DH.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Oh, right, almost forgot the Ultrasones. Never heard one of those.
   
  On the other hand, word is that the Pro 900 has a very recessed midrange. You know me by now; I can tolerate a slight V-curve, but anything that makes vocals sound like they're in the back seat compared to the music is right out. (On the flip side, there's always EQ.)
   
  In other news, here are someone's impressions on the Q701 vs. the AD900. Care to review the AD900 in the future? (Probably not, because of the bass comments...but I do wonder if it's a worthwhile upgrade over the AD700 on the more competitive side of gaming.)


----------



## ArdentWings

Good news! I've found a local store in town that has at least a couple of the headphones I've been interested in. The DT770s are available in both 80 and 250 ohm versions as well as the M50s. These were the 2 I was most interested in hearing, I'm not sure how much else they carry (selection is somewhat limited) but it is enough to make me happy. I'm fine not hearing the AD700 since it's pretty obvious what it will be; tinny and flat sounding with very little bass but tons of clarity on detail. I know I won't enjoy them for recreational uses anyway but that they are top notch for competitive and that's all I really need to know.  They would be a noticeable upgrade from my HTF-600 in terms of positional accuracy I assume. I'll be going out to try the dt770 and m50s after the long weekend though.
   
  P.S. Canadian here. We don't have these "Guitar Centers" I keep hearing about to test things. The store I've found is also a guitar/instrument store though, called "Long and McQuade" does anyone know of any other places or ways to test headphones in Canada? I'm not sure if they will have a listening station set up but they have a solid full money back 30 day return policy. I will still most likely purchase online for cheaper from the US and ship to the border, drive across, and pick up. Unless there are better options.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ardentwings said:


> Good news! I've found a local store in town that has at least a couple of the headphones I've been interested in. The DT770s are available in both 80 and 250 ohm versions as well as the M50s. These were the 2 I was most interested in hearing, I'm not sure how much else they carry (selection is somewhat limited) but it is enough to make me happy. I'm fine not hearing the AD700 since it's pretty obvious what it will be; tinny and flat sounding with very little bass but tons of clarity on detail. I know I won't enjoy them for recreational uses anyway but that they are top notch for competitive and that's all I really need to know.  They would be a noticeable upgrade from my HTF-600 in terms of positional accuracy I assume. I'll be going out to try the dt770 and m50s after the long weekend though.
> 
> P.S. Canadian here. We don't have these "Guitar Centers" I keep hearing about to test things. The store I've found is also a guitar/instrument store though, called "Long and McQuade" does anyone know of any other places or ways to test headphones in Canada? I'm not sure if they will have a listening station set up but they have a solid full money back 30 day return policy. I will still most likely purchase online for cheaper from the US and ship to the border, drive across, and pick up. Unless there are better options.


 
  When you test the headphones, try to find out what DAC and headphone amplifier they are using.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't want to try the AD900s mainly because:

A. Wing design headband. KILL IT WITH FIRE.

B. Everyone I know who has tried both the AD700 and AD900 have stated that the AD900 has a smaller soundstage, and worse positional cues that aren't as accurate as the AD700.

C. While it has more bass than the AD700, the bass is still pathetic.

Just what I gathered from the years I've spent here and AVS.


----------



## ruuku

mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't want to try the AD900s mainly because:
> A. Wing design headband. KILL IT WITH FIRE.
> B. Everyone I know who has tried both the AD700 and AD900 have stated that the AD900 has a smaller soundstage, and worse positional cues that aren't as accurate as the AD700.
> C. While it has more bass than the AD700, the bass is still pathetic.
> Just what I gathered from the years I've spent here and AVS.




A. Agree... but higher tension on the arms helps... a bit. It no longer sinks down on my head but still isn't as comfortable as a traditional headband. 

B. I really need to pick up a pair of AD700s... at the very least to make a comparison plus they're much cheaper than the AD900s. 

C. Yup bass is there, but under a normal eq has no presence. Using a bass positive EQ, it gets a little louder, but still not as loud/prominent as all of my other phones on a normal eq. 

I recently switched from the AD900s to test out gaming with the DT990pro250ohm and bass turned down to -3 on my receiver. Honestly, I'm hard pressed to find that much of a difference between all of my HPs in terms of positional accuracy, and much of the sound-staging depth (or is depth in terms of height not presented well with any type of processing?). 

I've only been serious about this hobby for the past two months, so maybe my ears aren't well trained enough to pick up on the slight (maybe large? I dunno.) nuances that might occur with a better trained ear. It honestly makes me think that with the proper setup/settings a quality pair of headphones will serve one well regardless of which brand/model you choose. 

Of course the obvious sonic differences can be heard (bass amount/presentation, mids, highs, clarity, soundstage width) between all of my HPs, and when listening critically to music they all shine in different areas. 

Or it could be that I'm not critical/judgmental enough in my testing/playing games with subpar audio. Right now playing the heck out of BL2... MLE i know you borrowed/played it-How do you find the audio? 

After the analysis/informal testing, all I can say is... thanks again for the guide MLE... I think i would have quit after the fourth pair, and just divided it between good for gaming/bad for gaming. 

Regardless, I do know that I'm much happier playing with any of these then with the AX720s. I guess the whole point of this post is to remind guys (especially all the first time posters/guys that just joined) that you may not need to stress so much over finding that "perfect" (if there is such a thing) set of headphones the first time around. Heck MLE's owned like a dozen pairs and still hasn't found it (though i assume he's pretty close with the HE400s). Just remember why you found this thread in the first place, because you enjoy gaming, whether it be for fun or for sport.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You hit the nail on the head. As I mentioned before, any decent pair of headphones will do fantastic for gaming, soundwhoring, etc. All that's really necessary is a decently sized soundstage, the right balance in sound... that's pretty much it.

This is part of the reason why I sold the HE400 and NFB5. I would be more than happy with the 990/32 and E17, plus all that extra cash that will be used for the Wii-U. I'm no longer needing more expensive setups, and will instead focus on the meat of why I'm here, the gaming. 

Again, anything with a 7 or higher on my guide will put you right where you need to be. 8 and up is pretty much as good as it gets. 9s and 10s are reserved for those that just have a HINT more precision or fun, but by no means make a signifi can't improvement on the 7s and up... There is no absolute best, because we all have our preferences.

Yes, vertical positioning isn't exactly a strength on any virtual surround I've heard, other than true binaural recordings. I don't find vertical to be that important. What's important is horizontal placement. Once you get the general direction, pinpointing the source with your eyes takes care of the rest. Very few instances where I felt I needed better vertical placement.




In other news:

Just boxed up the HE400 to send it out tomorrow to the new owner. I didn't wanna listen to them anymore. I haven't listened to them in a few days (work days tend to not give me time to sit back and use my cans), and I think that was a smart move. I KNOW I'd regret it if I did. Rip it off like a band aid, I say. XD

That HE400 sound was intoxicating, but I feel it best to downgrade to something more fun overall, even if I lose out on that lovely warmth, natural, full bodied sound. Didn't wanna constantly have to bass boost the HE400 to give it the fun bass presence I wanted for gaming and music. I know the DT990/32 will serve me well, and the KSC35 is right there when I want some warmth and richer mids.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Just wanted to let you guys who are looking for an alternative to Astro's Y adapter for cheaper, I just got this one from Amazon, and it works perfectly (and you don't get raped on shipping).
   
  -Erik
   
  P.S. MLE, after spending more time with DH, I'm starting to warm up to it a bit more. The SQ of the PC360's to the AXPRO's is HANDS DOWN better of course, but I'm not quite sure where I fall on the positioning part just yet. More time will tell. Thanks again for all your hard work with this guide.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, vertical positioning isn't exactly a strength on any virtual surround I've heard, other than true binaural recordings. I don't find vertical to be that important. What's important is horizontal placement. Once you get the general direction, pinpointing the source with your eyes takes care of the rest. Very few instances where I felt I needed better vertical placement.


 
   
  It doesn't help that most sources used for virtual surround aren't presenting any vertical positioning cues to begin with. All those 5.1 and 7.1 setups that people go gaga over are merely two-dimensional at best because of that.
   
  I constantly found myself wishing that Just Cause 2 had proper 3D positional audio when I had a hijacked helicopter and was trying to find the other enemy choppers in the area. They all sounded like they were at the same elevation when that clearly wasn't the case.
   
  *sighs* We've fallen such a long way from the late-1990s era of Aureal A3D (which used binaural mixing by default) because of game developers thinking that 7.1 is good enough.
   
  That said, most games don't really allow for much in terms of vertical movement to begin with. For every game like Tribes or Just Cause where the vertical space is integral to the gameplay, you have a thousand others where the environment is mostly flat. We don't see games with much emphasis on 3D level design like Descent these days, either.


----------



## kellte2

Long time lurker and I think that I'm finally ready to make a move for some new equipment.
  I'm using a DSS2 to drive  an old pair of HD 555s (foam modded) through my Xbox 360 and I've been happy with the SQ, but this is Head-Fi and as we all know: you can always get better.
   
  I'm trying to avoid getting into a new set of cans that are difficult to drive and require more than the DSS2.  Due to that mentality, I was initially drawn to the HD 598.  However, I'm concerned that they're not going to be enough of a "step up" to justify dropping the money.  I also have been interested in the fantastic marks given the DT990 pros, but I'm having a hard time finding them in 32 ohms.  Also, it seems as though they still will likely require the use of an amp to get the most out of them.  
   
  Last note, I do use a zalman clip on and occasionally voice chat with friends.  I know this can impact whether or not I'd need to amp, so I figured that I'd add it.
   
  I do play tend to focus on FPS shooters like COD (online - but not a pro-type gamer) and tend to appreciate the soundstage of the HD555, but I also use a bass boost on the DSS2 to get those headphones a much needed boost on the low end of the spectrum.
   
  If anyone is so inclined, I'd really appreciate any suggestions!


----------



## Jason Bourne

First off I would just like to say what an awesome thread to find for someone like me looking to get a headphone for use with gaming and blu-ray movies through the ps3. Thanks a ton to the OP "Mad Lust Envy". Im posting in this thread as it seems the most relevant.
   
  Right now I think Im leaning towards getting the Sennheiser HD598's but Im wondering what are my options for amps to use with headphones and the ps3? Is the mix-amp about it or are there options? If someone could please chime in with some help in this regard I would be really grateful. Ill basically be using this amp/headphone setup exclusively with the ps3 for blu-ray movies and gaming so simulation of surround sound is the most important variable I guess. 
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mjonir

Jason Bourne: Unfortunately, as stated in the guide, most virtual surround devices for headphones (Mixamp included) don't support DTS, which is what most movies use. I don't think you'll be able to get surround sound for movies with the Mixamp or similar


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





jason bourne said:


> First off I would just like to say what an awesome thread to find for someone like me looking to get a headphone for use with gaming and blu-ray movies through the ps3. Thanks a ton to the OP "Mad Lust Envy". Im posting in this thread as it seems the most relevant.
> 
> Right now I think Im leaning towards getting the Sennheiser HD598's but Im wondering what are my options for amps to use with headphones and the ps3? Is the mix-amp about it or are there options? If someone could please chime in with some help in this regard I would be really grateful. Ill basically be using this amp/headphone setup exclusively with the ps3 for blu-ray movies and gaming so simulation of surround sound is the most important variable I guess.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  I know the HD598s have a great sound stage and are a big hit with gamers and Dolby Headphone. That said I think you would need an amp to benefit the 598, where you could probably drive the AD700's off the mix amp alone. Both of these are lacking in bass if that bothers you.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Jason Bourne: Unfortunately, as stated in the guide, most virtual surround devices for headphones (Mixamp included) don't support DTS, which is what most movies use. I don't think you'll be able to get surround sound for movies with the Mixamp or similar


 
   
  ^^^ I realized the part about no DTS before I even posted  But as is the limitation of any surround sound setup being too loud where I live I will just have to make do and live with DD 5.1 which I believe the mix-amp will do?! Or am I incorrect?
   
  Quote: 





paradux said:


> I know the HD598s have a great sound stage and are a big hit with gamers and Dolby Headphone. That said I think you would need an amp to benefit the 598, where you could probably drive the AD700's off the mix amp alone. Both of these are lacking in bass if that bothers you.


 
   
  While I do like bass Im not a bass-head either. Just looking for bass that delivers the point of the intended scene across in a movie or a game. Like my original post Im still wondering what exactly are my options for an amp to use with headphones and a ps3 for gaming/movies with surround? From what I have seen the Mix-Amp and the DSS2 from Turtle beach are about it? Any others?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jason bourne said:


> First off I would just like to say what an awesome thread to find for someone like me looking to get a headphone for use with gaming and blu-ray movies through the ps3. Thanks a ton to the OP "Mad Lust Envy". Im posting in this thread as it seems the most relevant.
> 
> Right now I think Im leaning towards getting the Sennheiser HD598's but Im wondering what are my options for amps to use with headphones and the ps3? Is the mix-amp about it or are there options? If someone could please chime in with some help in this regard I would be really grateful. Ill basically be using this amp/headphone setup exclusively with the ps3 for blu-ray movies and gaming so simulation of surround sound is the most important variable I guess.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  I would think Sony would make the PS3 able to play any DVD or Blu-ray disk, no matter what audio standard is used.
  And whoever makes the Blu-ray movie disks would provide enough different audio track "standards" to allow their disk to be played with different audio setups.
   
  As S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) can not pass Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio, you not going to get the "full audio experience" no matter what optical input device you use.
  I would guess you would need to use HDMI for the "full audio experience".
  I would guess something like Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS-EX audio might be hiding somewhere on the Blu-ray movie disk.
  I would think once the PS3 turns DTS-EX audio signals into PCM, the PS3's DDL (Dolby Digital Live) should be able to compress it and send it thru the optical.


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





jason bourne said:


> While I do like bass Im not a bass-head either. Just looking for bass that delivers the point of the intended scene across in a movie or a game. Like my original post Im still wondering what exactly are my options for an amp to use with headphones and a ps3 for gaming/movies with surround? From what I have seen the Mix-Amp and the DSS2 from Turtle beach are about it? Any others?


 
  I gather you're a Bourne fan? Ultimatum is one of my fav films, and Greengrass one of my fav directors. I for one couldn't watch those films without some punchy bass 
   
  You haven't told us your budget? You could go up to AKG 701s but then you are needing an amp. I'm not sure about DTS decoding though sorry. If you need voice (which I guess is pretty unlikely on PSN) then the mixamp is your best option.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mjonir said:


> Jason Bourne: Unfortunately, as stated in the guide, most virtual surround devices for headphones (Mixamp included) don't support DTS, which is what most movies use. I don't think you'll be able to get surround sound for movies with the Mixamp or similar


 
  After the PS3 uncompress the DTS to PCM audio, Should not DDL be able to compress any PCM audio signal.
  DDL does not process the audio signal, just compress it for S/PDIF transfer.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would think Sony would make the PS3 able to play any DVD or Blu-ray disk, no matter what audio standard is used.
> And whoever makes the Blu-ray movie disks would provide enough different audio track "standards" to allow their disk to be played with different audio setups.
> 
> As S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) can not pass Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio, you not going to get the "full audio experience" no matter what optical input device you use.
> ...


 
  ^^^ Thanks for the post PurpleAngle. While I understand most of what you wrote or the basis of it I dont fully understand the post either...sorry just not at your technical level here... 
   
  Quote: 





paradux said:


> I gather you're a Bourne fan? Ultimatum is one of my fav films, and Greengrass one of my fav directors. I for one couldn't watch those films without some punchy bass
> 
> You haven't told us your budget? You could go up to AKG 701s but then you are needing an amp. I'm not sure about DTS decoding though sorry. If you need voice (which I guess is pretty unlikely on PSN) then the mixamp is your best option.


 
  ^^^ What gave away?  Yes I love the Bourne movies! My budget is probably around $225-300 for headphones plus I could probably do another $125 or so for an amp. Recommendation's within that range are really appreciated. If I had to break it down this will be used 65% with blu-ray movies and 35% gaming. Voice is not a necessity on my end.  Like you say I would want some bass that will at-least begin to do an action movie/game justice audio wise. Is anyone using anything other then a mix-amp or dss2 with the ps3 around here with headphones?


----------



## Fa11ou7

I want to try my new TBSE Koss with an amp to see how they sound. The only amp I have at this point is a Rotel receiver (RSX-1055) which doesn't have a headphone jack. If I did an audio out to my PX5 DH box will that allow the amp to work its magic or will the decoder kill any power the amp sends its way? I do have a 1/8" to L/R RCA Y cable that I could go straight from my receiver to headphone but it kind of makes me nervous it my blow the headphones..


----------



## calpis

The only (and easily acquired) way at the moment to get from DTS -> DH is through a receiver. My harman kardon avr-247 does this with no problems. There are at least 4 other devices that will do this too; JVC/Victor SU-DH1, Pioneer SE-DIR800C, Pioneer SE-DIR800C II, and one other Pioneer model that was a japanese market only (older model than the current DRS3000C model doesn't have a headphone output). Philips had a decoder box that did DH too that stayed in the UK and I don't recall if it supported DTS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Calpis, what's the DH receiver you have? I wanna see what the next one up with an HDMI input is. I might need one for the Wii-U, seeing as I don't think it will have an optical out. I hope to god it's on the cable like the on the old 360s.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Mad Lust Envy, check your PM inbox. I found just the thing for you.
   
  The AVR 247 was succeeded by the AVR 254 and AVR 354, which also have Dolby Headphone. It just seems to be the quad-digit Harmon Kardon AVRs that ditched DH for whatever reason.


----------



## calpis

I have the 247 and it only has 2 hdmi inputs. If I were you, I'd get at least the 254 since that has 3 hdmi inputs and will also do lossless audio if you ever decided to do a speaker setup. I really want to upgrade to the 254 because I kinda do need the extra hdmi input now and don't want to bother with the hdmi switcher that I have now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy cow, the Wii-U may not even use Dolby or DTS, and convert things to multi-channel PCM. However, nothing is concrete. 

This is horrible news to us Dolby Headphone/THX Tru Studio/DSS2 gamers. I hope Nintendo hurries up and brings out the final specs for the system.


----------



## Eric_C

Which Wii-U games were you hoping to play in virtual surround?


----------



## Evshrug

jerseytiger said:


> Summary:
> My leaning right now is Q701, Recon3D, Fiio 11 or 10.  I'm a complete noob who has done about 8 hours of reading over the last 2 days to reach this point.  Please offer suggestions that would fit my intent of using the system or reassure me that what I have picked is awesome.  Thank you for any advice.




Hello JerseyTiger,
I caught up entirely on this thread, but I'm quoting your first post so I remember where you came from and any your major concerns.
FiiO E10 is nice but I don't think it can plug into PS3 (it only uses USB for audio input), and neither FiiO is a surround sound processor like the Recon3D. I'm a personal fan of the Recon3D, sounds great to me, and works with Xbox, PS3, Windows, and Mac. Your needs may vary, your TASTES may vary, but priced between DSS and Mixamp while more versatile that either DOES make it a strong value.
I bought the Q701 two months ago, been using the AD700 before that. I'm of the same taste as you that the beyers don't do it for me... they look like window vents, the red ones pictured recently look particularly cheap and garish, despite red being my fav color. They do look comfy though. The AKG, however, definitely looks like audio gear, and the stormtrooper white with green accents looks real cool in person too! But enough about looks... IMO, I think the AKG has a very natural, believable sound balance. This, for me, is very good. Too much bass or too much treble is too much of a good thing, for me, but others like a sound more exciting than realistic. Nothing wrong with that, either. Just keep in mind, and check the freq graphs on Headroom.com if you don't believe me, the Q701 doesn't really have any freq below 0dB reference, at least not very much.
I have powered my Q701 directly off my iPod 5th gen, Recon3D, and FiiO E5. I can reach acceptable volume levels with all, and in a pinch use the Q701 directly plugged into my sources. Thing is, the treble can sound a bit harsh off the iPod or Recon3D alone (worst offender is the gun on the attack chopper on CoD4, but I may be biased cuz I hate getting killed by those lol). You could start without an extra amp and do fine until you save up for a good one, that's what I'm doing.
This weekend, though, I dusted off the AD700, and honestly felt like it had pretty good synergy with the Recon3D. I turned up the Recon3D's bass boost, and didn't feel like I was missing out at all while playing Metro 2033 for the second time, the treble + all the other ranges were controlled and sweet sounding, and I think the soundstage/positioning was improved over the *unamped* Q701 too. I really feel like a headphone with the 62 Ohms (of the Q701) and up impedance have a destiny with higher-powered amps, but... but... the 32 Ohm AD700 sounded really good. As is. No double-amping. This troubles my budgeting sense, heh. The 32 Ohm Beyerdynamic may be easy to power too (MLE thinks more amping would help those too), but you're essentially paying more for more bass, less soundstage and a bit worse positioning.

Maybe I just have an exceptional pair of AD700 lol... XD

Also ArdentWing,
You were the one considering DT770 vs AD700, right? And you said something to the effect of "I know I'm not going to enjoy the AD700," without even hearing them. LOL. Well, you probably won't enjoy them if you require a lot of _presence_ and weight to bass, but you make it sound like you expect it would be torture! Far from it, IMO, and it's worth considering how much easier it is to drive the AD700 and add bass boost.
Played some more Metro 2033 before returning it to my friend this weekend, and FWIW I could tell that it was having an easier time being amped via Recon3D alone, than my Q701s. I would also like to point out a specific gaming moment while playing: the first appearance of an "anomaly" was absolutely powerful and impressive! My jaw dropped. I do have a bit of bass boost enabled on my Recon3D, and honestly with this combo I know that the price difference of the Q701 isn't justified. Btw, the Recon3D does have all the needed connectors for chat.
Consider this easy amped and cost duo, and upgrade later if you are absolutely blown away by something you've _tested yourself_ after this: AD700 and some processor (DSS v1 or similar), and a pair of Koss KSC75 for walkabout/warm sound. Really, I'd guess you'll have a hard time justifying paying more money after hearing how good these are.


----------



## Evshrug

Just a thought, though I haven't tried them myself: the AKG K240 studios. Before we had "beats" et al claiming to be used in mixing, these (and Sony MDR-V6) actually WERE used for studio mastering. Are still, I think. They're still 55ohms, but are supposed to have a higher sensitivity for better portable device playback. They're about the same price as AD700, a bit more if you want the MKII version which I believe is different by color and more accessories (including velour earpads). You might think of them as Q701-lite headphones, put the saved money towards a great amp... Just an idea.
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2611&graphID[]=2931&graphID[]=2661&graphID[]=2141 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Edit: I forget which version of DT990 are graphed by headroom (@headphone.com), except that its not the 600 Ohm version. Kinda annoying that it's the same model number between all the different Ohm ratings, isn't it?

Also of interest, DT770 comparison.





Freq graphs don't tell the whole story (like detail retrieval and refinement, control), but it does raise a few interesting points. The DT770 has less midbass than the DT990 _and_ Q701, you'd think the DT770 would have less mid-bass bleeding over the details, so that shows you that implementation may have a bigger impact than the freq graph shows. It may be giving a hint as to how the DT770 has such good directional imaging accuracy with DH, though. The relative evenness of the AD700 before the sub-bass region may explain why IT is so good with directional cues, it doesn't really have any sounds boosted until you get to some pretty high highs. Note that "perfect human hearing" starts to not perceive bass lower than 20hz, and a small boost at about 40hz ought to bring bass in-line with the rest of the sound sig. I set my Recon3D's bass boost to the 80hz "crossover" setting and bumped it up from there, seems to have worked very well. Alternately, the AD700 is so open I could just hook up a real subwoofer, hahaha.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> Which Wii-U games were you hoping to play in virtual surround?




ALL of them?

Evshrug




That'd be 250ohm and 600ohm. That's more of a driver by driver difference, and not 250 vs 600ohm difference, as no two headphones are exactly the same.

In any case, here's more legit graphs. Headroom is notorious for some messed up graphs (like the D7000).

The Waterfall plots show the extremely clean treble response (though it starts at 200hz, and not 20hz, so it's not the whole frequency range for the CSD plots). The large amount of treble information is actually not something the majority of us would be bothered with as almost no sources go past the 10-12khz range, so all that treble afterwards is inaudible. As stated, the treble is clean and a reduction (like off an E17) would make the DT990 and extremely high quality, balanced if bassy headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

^^^ lol!
To be fair, it's a legit question from people who game on the current gen Wii. The system is clogged by shovelware games, to the point where most people buy the system just for the 1st party games, or for somebody else. Many, including myself, wonder if the new system will also be plagued by super soft-core games, rushed through development so they have a chance to be bought by children or impulse-buyers. I hope that is NOT the case (long live Mario, Zelda, and Metroid!), but if the system is just an oversized 3DS...
Anyway, here's sincerely hoping they make games that merit surround sound.

Re: DT990
Well yes, I'm glad the tolerances are tight, though for someone like you who also loves sub-bass, wouldn't a graph only starting at 200mhz be kinda useless to you? The DT770 is within a similar "headphone/driver variance" tolerance with the AD700 for quite a bit of the freq above 200mhz, and we know they don't sound that close. Whereas, yep, I sure do know that the headroom graphs show a lot higher freqs than I can hear anymore, I'd guess that it would be somewhere around that treble peak in just about every headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the Wii-U is going to cater to all people, instead of to mainly casuals and children. Their launch window lineup looks stronger than any system released prior so far, with lots of games that would typically be on the 360 or PS3. In any case, at least for the foreseeable future, it should have the same games as the 360/PS3 but on a higher level, and probably the entry level for when the PS4/720 come out. I'm just glad they finally went HD, and went with an actual controller as the main controlling device (albeit with a screen). The fact that the Wii was SD (which looked horrible on HD sets) and was mainly all waggle controls, was why the Wii was mainly a casual and non-hardcore gamer console, and didn't interest me much if at all. I had it and almost NEVER touched it. The Wii-U should have some good 3rd party support this time around.


----------



## ash152152

I am a Battlefield 3 player and i need some suggestions. I want to find a headphone that suit me . Around $100.
  I am looking for a comfy(for long time playing), good directionality(so that i can locate my enemies) and have good sound quality. Mic is not necessary.
  I am plugging the headphone directly into the motherboard(ASUS P8H11-M), since I don't have a external sound card. 
  I found that some headphones may suit me. 
   
   ATH AD700 
   Steelseries Siberia v2
   Sennheiser HD555
   
  Hope you guys can give me some suggestions
   
  Thanks guys


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure if your onboard soundcard does any virtual surround, so I suggest something cheap ($40) like maybe an external soundcard like the

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Xonar-Sound-Cards-XONAR_U3/dp/B0054L8GVK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349706918&sr=8-1&keywords=xonar+u3

Xonar U3, which has Dolby headphone. If you aren't willing to buy something with virtual surround, most headphones in standard stereo will have very similar directionality from one another, since it all sounds so two dimensional to me. Most left and right directionality. From one ear to the other.

I personally recommend getting something like the Xonar U3 as the TOP priority. Hell, I'd take that and a KSC75 ($15) first, then save up for the Sennheiser if you can't afford the Xonar U3 and a headphone right now.. 

The Sennheiser 555 (if you can find them for cheap) would be my suggestion. Then do the foam removal mod which is very easy. That should be all you need. The 558 is going for $101 (Like New) off Dahmart, which is even better than the 555, and can have a foam removal mod too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004FEEY9A/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all


If not, the AD700, though I personally feel they aren't the least bit comfy, and hate the bass. The pads are soft, and the headphone won't even feel like they are on your head, but that's a problem for me. It has no feeling of being secure and slides all over the place. I hated the fit.

The 555/558 and AD700 do not need any amping, so you're good to go there.

Sadly, Battlefield 3 has good sound quality, but not very good directional cues, so I don't think even a $20000 pair of headphones will help you directional wise.


----------



## Evshrug

Sounds good MLE. Launch titles usually aren't a system's best, but a strong start is always a good sign! I really do hope Nintendo continues where Sega fell.

For whatever platform, a fun flight sim game or, even better, space flight sim, would be a fantastic platform for 3D surround sound. I personally think it could see the kind of console renaissance as we saw with FPS games that dominate the scene now, with a great game executed well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just got my DT990/32. Great condition. Sounds stellar.


----------



## Evshrug

The Audio Technica "wing" design is far less objectionable than pleather earpads IMO, in fact I would go so far as saying the wings don't bother me as much as the Q701 bumps (which aren't a huge problem either). Putting a rubber band or hair tie between the two wings is an even easier mod than the foam removal mod of the HD 555, though both are really quite easy. Comfort is a bit of a toss up between the two, with the AD700 having a circumaural sized earpad that does rest on your outer ear, while the HD 555 has oval earpads that may fully avoid touching your ears but the headphone clamps more.

2x the suggestion that getting a headphone virtual surround processor is a bigger improvement than another pair of stereo headphones first. For cheapest PC headphone processor between the Asus Xonar U3 and Creative X-Fi Live! Go, I would recommend... whichever is on sale. Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The rubberband mod made the AD700 even less comfortable... @_@

Wow, I'm sitting here listening to my DT990/32. I subconsciously reached for the volume knob to lower the volume...problem is, I was reaching for the NFB5's volume knob... and I no longer own the NFB5.  I have to pick up the E17 and lower it with face buttons. Sigh, I miss my NFB5. That volume knob was just so lovely.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The rubberband mod made the AD700 even less comfortable... @_@
> Wow, I'm sitting here listening to my DT990/32. I subconsciously reached for the volume knob to lower the volume...problem is, I was reaching for the NFB5's volume knob... and I no longer own the NFB5.  I have to pick up the E17 and lower it with face buttons. Sigh, I miss my NFB5. That volume knob was just so lovely.





I know money is tight once again, but were you considering that receiver? And was the NFB5 volume knob much different from the E9's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, I pm-ed the seller. My problem is that I bet those receivers have high output impedance, so I may have to return the 990/32 and get a 250ohm. I didn't realize the 32ohm didn't have Amazon's square trade warranty, while the 250ohm does. Sigh... I KNEW there was a reason why it was under $200. :rolleyes: But I'll take the hit the DT990/32 messes up. I'm too pleased with them.

I don't wanna deal with the 250ohm's amping requirements IF I don't get a receiver.

And yes, Audio-GD uses a different system in the way it uses the volume knob. The volume knob has absolutely no noise whatsoever, and has a weighty movement on the metal knob, screaming quality. The E9's traveled a bit too easy, and had noise when adjusting volume. The only other one I tried was the Lyr, and I felt the AUdio-GDs were still much better. It also has zero channel imbalance.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> For whatever platform, a fun flight sim game or, even better, space flight sim, would be a fantastic platform for 3D surround sound. I personally think it could see the kind of console renaissance as we saw with FPS games that dominate the scene now, with a great game executed well.


 
   
  I've thought the same thing, precisely because of those genres actually using the third dimension.
   
  Only thing is, a realistic space "sim" wouldn't actually have any sounds in space, but there's the common justification of having the sounds all computer-synthesized for situational awareness purposes, like Shattered Horizon.
   
  Have you thought about trying out Descent 3? It has DirectSound3D support, so just drop the ALchemy files in the folder and you're good to go. (I wish I could say the DXX-Rebirth or D2X-XL source ports of the first two games had DS3D or OAL support, but they don't.)


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would think Sony would make the PS3 able to play any DVD or Blu-ray disk, no matter what audio standard is used.
> And whoever makes the Blu-ray movie disks would provide enough different audio track "standards" to allow their disk to be played with different audio setups.
> 
> As S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) can not pass Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD Master Audio, you not going to get the "full audio experience" no matter what optical input device you use.
> ...


 
   
  I had to read your post a couple times to understand what you wrote and after reading it today I follow you pretty much on everything 100%. Yes, without using hdmi you cannot really get Dolby True-HD or DTS-HD. They have to be going through hdmi, period. And yes, most blu-ray discs (90%) have DD5.1 as an audio track available along side DTS-HD, True-HD and other audio formats which the PS3 can send through optical. 
   
  That all being said I understand that if I were to go the route of mixamp + headphones my audio would be limited to DD5.1 despite whatever better audio format was available on the blu-ray disc being watched and thats something Im willing to live with since my actual surround setup is simply too loud even at low volumes for my living space. I guess what Im saying is I HAVE to go to a headphone's setup for gaming and movies where I live now. 
   
  So at the moment Im thinking mixamp + one of the following headphones (lol, long list I know):
   
[size=1.7em] Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro[/size] [size=1.7em] Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro[/size] [size=1.7em] BEYER DYNAMIC DT880 Pro[/size] 
[size=1.7em] Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium[/size] 
[size=1.7em] AKG Q 701[/size] 
[size=1.7em] AKG K 701/702[/size]   
^^ Just not sure which way to. I would like to keep it under $250 for the headphones and want the headphones to have adequate bass while still providing crisp high's and balanced mid's (don't we all, right?). Chat is not a concern for me with gaming just focussed on sound for games and movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edited, because I am apparently a ginormous herpaderping idiot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

*OMG! I do NOT know when the hell this happened, but there is an option WITHIN Blu-Ray playback on the PS3, where you can set the Bitstream (basically meaning the optical out) to Mix, instead of Direct. Direct basically means that there is no touching the audio signal whatsoever. I dunno what the hell Mix is and if it FOUND a Dolby Digital signal embedded in the Blu-Ray OR converted DTS to Dolby Digital, but YES! I can watch Blu-Rays in Dolby Digital!*

The last time I checked those settings, that option was NOT there, or it WAS but since I didn't know what it did, I left it on Direct, since it's the raw signal! This was apparently added two years ago. :rolleyes:

So no receiver necessary! EVERYONE who has a PS3 as their main Blu-Ray player, make sure to change the audio setting to Bitsream MIX! I dunno about any other BD player and if such an option is available for them, but I certainly hope so.

I just found this, after seeing this option for the first time!

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3/Tricks-on-the-Bitstream-Mix-setting-for-BD-Audio-Out-Optical-on/td-p/36931958







> *]I have found certain tricks on using the Bitstream (Mix) setting for the BD Audio Output (Optical) setting on the PS3; actually a few.
> 
> This tutorial will show you how to use the Bitstream (Mix) setting to your advantage.
> 
> ...





What the hell Sony? I'd have to love to know what the hell this was AGES ago. I almost spent money unnecessarily to get DTS to work for my headphones!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *This is not true*, at least in the case of the main language (secondary languages like French and Spanish do tend to be encoded with Dolby Digital). Almost all Blu-Rays are encoded with DTS tracks. If you don't have DTS checked, the PS3 will automatically revert to 2 channel PCM (which is why you can't EVER uncheck it in audio settings). If you uncheck DTS, and keep Dolby Digital, the Blu-Rays will still default to 2 channel PCM. This is exactly why the Mixamp and other virtual surround device users are out of luck when watching Blu-Rays. We can't get Dolby Digital so it can be changed to Dolby Headphone. We simply have to deal with these devices adding reverb to a basic stereo signal.
> If you have both DTS and Dolby Digital checked on the PS3, the Mixamp, etc won't play any audio, because the Blu-Rays are only playing DTS.
> However, certain receivers (like certain Harman Kardan receivers), WILL convert DTS to Dolby Digital and then to Dolby Headphone.
> Now, if you can somehow find me this 'hidden' Dolby track that I can feed to the PS3's optical out while watching Blu-Rays, you will officially be my audio savior.
> As far as Dolby Digital True HD, and DTS-HDMA and what have you, yes they do have the basic non-HD tracks hidden within them. Like if you're playing a DTS-HDMA movie, the optical will use the basic DTS signal. The rare few movies that use Dolby Audio, will have the hidden Dolby Digital track (I believe Dreamworks movies seem to go Dolby instead of DTS).


 
  I was making a "guess" about Blu-ray movie disks having a "hidden" DD 5.1 audio track.
  As a blu-ray movie disks can hold 25GBs, adding a Dolby Digital 5.1 audio tracks would be under 1GB (?), so the blu-ray disk would have the room to spare.
  If the PS3 defaults to 2 channel PCM and that is what comes thru the PS3's optical output, guess that is as good as it gets for the mix-amp user.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Check the last two posts before you posted. I can't believe I JUST found this out. I'm embarrassed. This is HUGE!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Sounds like you don't need to hunt down an SU-DH1 or a receiver after all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm actually quite upset that I found this out TWO+ YEARS late. I have been watching Blu-Rays in basic stereo all this damn time when I could've enjoyed them in Dolby Headphone, due to Sony not clarifying what Bitstream Mix does. Not only is it impossible to figure out that this changes DTS to Dolby Digital, but it's only available WHILE you are watching a movie.You'd think they'd have this option in the PS3 Audio Settings. Stupidity really. The only explanation you get is when you switch back to Bitstream (Direct), where it says that some audio information may potentially be missing. :rolleyes:

I wonder if standard Blu-Ray players have an option like this, though I don't see it being useful for the vast majority of people, seeing as this conversion only helps those with really old receivers that don't accept DTS but accept Dolby Digital, or us here who have these niche devices that rely on Dolby Digital.

PS3 games do have the DTS option, but already have Dolby Digital in them.

I'm gonna have to edit the first post with this information later on. I'm sure lots of the PS3 users with the Mixamp/DSS/Recond 3D would LOVE to know this.


----------



## Jason Bourne

^^^ What just happened exactly in the last few posts above after mine? Are you guys saying the PS3 is capable of converting DTS to DH on its own by adjusting a setting in bitstream mix?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. So if you're watching Blu-Rays, you can use something like the Mixamp to get Dolby Headphone. If you have the audio set to Linear PCM or Bitstream Direct, you will not get the Dolby Digital signal, meaning not Dolby Headphone.


----------



## ruuku

jason bourne said:


> ^^^ What just happened exactly in the last few posts above after mine? Are you guys saying the PS3 is capable of converting DTS to DH on its own by adjusting a setting in bitstream mix?




Not really, rather sony added the ability to select convert DTS into Dolby 5.1 IF the blu-ray has the 5.1 track on it (I'm not sure if all Blu-Rays have the 5.1 track or not). You'll still need something to convert the 5.1 into DH. 

Regarding your last post, IF youre willing to give up chat altogether, then you could choose a TB DSS1/2 or Creative Recon, and maybe budget for an amp along the way. All of the Headphones in your list will benefit from the secondary amp, some more than others. I can only comment on the Q's and DT990pro250. If you're mainly using them for gaming then the Q's are a better choice with a bigger soundstage, and ample yet not overpowering bass, while the 990 is better for movies with loads of bass which is perfect for action movies.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, the Wii-U is going to cater to all people, instead of to mainly casuals and children. Their launch window lineup looks stronger than any system released prior so far, with lots of games that would typically be on the 360 or PS3. In any case, at least for the foreseeable future, it should have the same games as the 360/PS3 but on a higher level, and probably the entry level for when the PS4/720 come out. I'm just glad they finally went HD, and went with an actual controller as the main controlling device (albeit with a screen). The fact that the Wii was SD (which looked horrible on HD sets) and was mainly all waggle controls, was why the Wii was mainly a casual and non-hardcore gamer console, and didn't interest me much if at all. I had it and almost NEVER touched it. The Wii-U should have some good 3rd party support this time around.


 
  I was extremely disappointed with the Wii and like you ended up never using it, I'm just glad I was able to sell it for a fair price. I'm still not all that interested in the Wii U and the early information on it doesn't convince me that it will be something I want over a PC. Like you said earlier I will have to wait for the final specs to be released because it doesn't look good at this point. I don't want to spend $300+ to get another piece of hardware that is inferior to my PC with a graphics card from 2009 that still lets me play nearly everything at high or close to it. I know you're budgets been pretty tight lately but why not spend a little bit more and go the PC route where you can be an audio/videophile at the same time?


----------



## ruuku

fa11ou7 said:


> I was extremely disappointed with the Wii and like you ended up never using it, I'm just glad I was able to sell it for a fair price. I'm still not all that interested in the Wii U and the early information on it doesn't convince me that it will be something I want over a PC. Like you said earlier I will have to wait for the final specs to be released because it doesn't look good at this point. I don't want to spend $300+ to get another piece of hardware that is inferior to my PC with a graphics card from 2009 that still lets me play nearly everything at high or close to it. I know you're budgets been pretty tight lately but why not spend a little bit more and go the PC route where you can be an audio/videophile at the same time?




 Like me, MLE's a console gamer through and through. Been discussed earlier in the thread.



mad lust envy said:


> I'm actually quite upset that I found this out TWO+ YEARS late. I have been watching Blu-Rays in basic stereo all this damn time when I could've enjoyed them in Dolby Headphone, due to Sony not clarifying what Bitstream Mix does. Not only is it impossible to figure out that this changes DTS to Dolby Digital, but it's only available WHILE you are watching a movie.You'd think they'd have this option in the PS3 Audio Settings. Stupidity really. The only explanation you get is when you switch back to Bitstream (Direct), where it says that some audio information may potentially be missing. :rolleyes:
> I wonder if standard Blu-Ray players have an option like this, though I don't see it being useful for the vast majority of people, seeing as this conversion only helps those with really old receivers that don't accept DTS but accept Dolby Digital, or us here who have these niche devices that rely on Dolby Digital.
> PS3 games do have the DTS option, but already have Dolby Digital in them.
> I'm gonna have to edit the first post with this information later on. I'm sure lots of the PS3 users with the Mixamp/DSS/Recond 3D would LOVE to know this.




Agreed...should have been accessable through the system settings... set it and forget it. Does this mean you'll have to change the audio settings for every movie you watch? Kind of a PITA, but i guess its worth it to get DH out of our decoders.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yup. So if you're watching Blu-Rays, you can use something like the Mixamp to get Dolby Headphone. If you have the audio set to Linear PCM or Bitstream Direct, you will not get the Dolby Digital signal, meaning not Dolby Headphone.


 
  ^^^ Perfect, thank you for explaining that. 
   
  Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Not really, rather sony added the ability to select convert DTS into Dolby 5.1 IF the blu-ray has the 5.1 track on it (I'm not sure if all Blu-Rays have the 5.1 track or not). You'll still need something to convert the 5.1 into DH.
> Regarding your last post, IF youre willing to give up chat altogether, then you could choose a TB DSS1/2 or Creative Recon, and maybe budget for an amp along the way. All of the Headphones in your list will benefit from the secondary amp, some more than others. I can only comment on the Q's and DT990pro250. If you're mainly using them for gaming then the Q's are a better choice with a bigger soundstage, and ample yet not overpowering bass, while the 990 is better for movies with loads of bass which is perfect for action movies.


 
  ^^^ Ahhh k gotcha'. Ill be using the headphones I would say 65% movies and 35% gaming. Sounds like the DT990 Pro 250 might be the way to go I think for myself. Will look into them a bit more and the price is nice as well on them. Got any recommendations for a secondary amp that will do a decent job but not break the bank to bad? Thanks!


----------



## ruuku

Off the top of my head, the O2 http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full and Fiio E9 http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E9-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B004M172FY are regarded as good "budget minded" amps. I've haven't had a chance to hear these so I can't contribute anything more, however MLE's owned an E9, so maybe he can chime in on how synergistic it may be.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Off the top of my head, the O2 http://www.jdslabs.com/item.php?fetchitem=O2Full and Fiio E9 http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E9-Desktop-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B004M172FY are regarded as good "budget minded" amps. I've haven't had a chance to hear these so I can't contribute anything more, however MLE's owned an E9, so maybe he can chime in on how synergistic it may be.


 
  ^^^ Thanks a bunch. I will check em' out.  Gives me direction as to where I should be looking as well.


----------



## Evshrug

MLE,
I am super happy for you, and the headphone processor community (lol), that you found this DTS solution. With the relative dearth of DTS solutions, it only makes sense that someone wasn't filling the market demand because... there wasn't actually a demand for it. When I read that the Xbox 360 could decode DTS (on the few DVDs that support it), I felt the more media-centric Sony PS3 _had to_ have some sort of solution.
So good for you, too bad for the bloke looking to sell his receiver lol. Hey, maybe it would be a good alternative for* Jason Bourne* so he wouldn't have to buy a separate processor and amp?

Nameless,
Just saw what you said about Descent 3. I remember playing a demo as a little kid, made me jump lol. Sheltered child. I'm worried that gaming has found a few "comfortable ruts" to stick with, and the publishers have become like Hollywood where they don't know what customers want and try to just operate within the framework that has worked in the past, RE: CoD, Halo, Madden, anything by EA. Oh, and both Elvis & JFK are still alive, and the moon landing was a hoax. XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It would still be a lot more beneficial to have something that decodes DTS without that PS3 trickery. That way, you can set the PS3 to output all types of sound and not have to worry about. Also, I doubt EVERYONE who watches Blu-rays has a PS3. I'm sure other devices may not have this Bitstream (Mix) option. Hell, I know the PS3 didn't for what, 3+ years?

This is more than likely just for those with a PS3, and may be out of luck if they watch BD on something else.


----------



## ash152152

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure if your onboard soundcard does any virtual surround, so I suggest something cheap ($40) like maybe an external soundcard like the
> http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Xonar-Sound-Cards-XONAR_U3/dp/B0054L8GVK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349706918&sr=8-1&keywords=xonar+u3
> Xonar U3, which has Dolby headphone. If you aren't willing to buy something with virtual surround, most headphones in standard stereo will have very similar directionality from one another, since it all sounds so two dimensional to me. Most left and right directionality. From one ear to the other.
> I personally recommend getting something like the Xonar U3 as the TOP priority. Hell, I'd take that and a KSC75 ($15) first, then save up for the Sennheiser if you can't afford the Xonar U3 and a headphone right now..
> ...


 
  Thank you for your suggestions.
  An ASUS Xonar DGX ,whish has dolby headphone.
http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Xonar-Channel-Gaming-Audio/dp/B008LA8JY0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1349775795&sr=8-5&keywords=ASUS+XONAR+DGX
   
  It cost even cheaper than a ASUS Xonar U3 at my local electronic store. Should I go for that?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





ash152152 said:


> Thank you for your suggestions.
> An ASUS Xonar DGX ,whish has dolby headphone.
> http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Xonar-Channel-Gaming-Audio/dp/B008LA8JY0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1349775795&sr=8-5&keywords=ASUS+XONAR+DGX
> 
> It cost even cheaper than a ASUS Xonar U3 at my local electronic store. Should I go for that?


 
   
  If ever you have the option to install a card over using a USB device, 9.5/10 I'm going to recommend using an internal card. So I say go for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'd go for an internal soundcard too. I had assumed you were using a laptop, which wouldn't exactly be easy or maybe even impossible to swap out the soundcard.

To update for the DT990/32, I actually prefer it with the Mixamp alone, than attaching the E17. Why? It sounds basically the same with/without the E17. Of course, the E17 would be beneficial for adjusting bass/treble, and helping the Mixamp power them when using voice chat, but for single player gaming, and the fact that I don't feel they need any EQ, I'm very happy.

All this shows me is that the DT990 are seriously the best headphone I have owned, when I take all factors into account.

No EQ
Open
Crisp, clear audio
Bassy (fits my preference if being bassy but not boomy)
Super comfy velours
Does well in both fun and competitive gaming
Affordable (by Head-fi standards... or rather WERE affordable, now you pretty much have to buy used, as new price is ridiculously high now, may as well spend the extra for MANUFAKTUR if getting new)
Does well in both fun and competitive gaming

Things sure have come full circle. I have since sold everything else, and even though other headphones I have owned sound better (D7000, HE400, HE-4), the DT990 still brings a smile to my face.

I would've saved a lot of money these past few years if I wasn't so curious.

I'm tempted on getting the 250ohm used so I can compare. Then I'd end up having 'owned' using all the current 990s.


----------



## hvizuett

Hey everyone,
   
  So I'm looking at buying a new pair of headphones for all purposes.  I've narrowed down my choices between the Sennheiser HD 598 and the AKG Q 701.
   
  My question is which out of the two deliver, or I should say, offer me the best bang for the buck?
   
  I'll be using these on a PS3 and on a 13 inch Macbook Pro.
   
  My uses consist of gaming, watching movies, listening to music, and watching videos.  
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you have a desktop amp, the Q701. If not, the HD598. They are similar to me, but the Q701 is more detailed, airier, and of a higher tier quality. The HD598 has a very inoffensive, well balanced sound signature, that doesn't really amaze or do anything bad, but it's not nearly as engaging as the Q701. Neither have particularly amazing bass presence, so depending on your music, they both might bore you. I wouldn't personally use either for music or movies.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ash152152 said:


> Thank you for your suggestions.
> An ASUS Xonar DGX ,whish has dolby headphone.
> http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Xonar-Channel-Gaming-Audio/dp/B008LA8JY0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1349775795&sr=8-5&keywords=ASUS+XONAR+DGX
> 
> It cost even cheaper than a ASUS Xonar U3 at my local electronic store. Should I go for that?


 
  The Xonar DGX is a little cheaper here. Very decent sound card for the price.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132052&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA


----------



## Evshrug

I would go further than Mad by saying, based on personal experience and research (and taste to a degree), that the Q701 is the better headphone. They both can reach adequate volume (I'll check for you how much headroom the MacBook Pro has left once I get home, but my guess is not much), and IMO even without an extra amp you can hear that the Q701 is very good, but the Q scales up more and will make you most happy when powered by a receiver or desktop amp.
 Going on Mad's comment about the HD598's balanced signature and non-headlining bass performance, I'd actually suggest that the Audio Technica is even better than the HD598 if bang-for-buck in your first hi-fi headphone. A small EQ boost at 80hz and lower can help fill in the bass, but the AD700 always excels in soundstage and "sparkle."
I personally feel the soundstage of the Q701 and AD700 is great for movies, though for movies with explosions and submarines you may want to boost the bass beyond neutral/natural, which is where the average person seems to like it more.
If you REALLY want bang-for-buck, Koss KSC-75 clip ons. Not the last word in detail and refinement, yet a very pleasing sound and just $12-$14. Definitely a good walkabout to pair with any reference headphone you keep at home.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ash152152 said:


> Thank you for your suggestions.
> An ASUS Xonar DGX ,whish has dolby headphone.
> http://www.amazon.com/Asus-Xonar-Channel-Gaming-Audio/dp/B008LA8JY0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1349775795&sr=8-5&keywords=ASUS+XONAR+DGX
> 
> It cost even cheaper than a ASUS Xonar U3 at my local electronic store. Should I go for that?


 
   
  Yeah, I'd go for that...unless you play anything that uses the DirectSound3D or OpenAL APIs, in which case I'd recommend the X-Fi Titanium instead. But both are good sound cards, no question about that.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *OMG! I do NOT know when the hell this happened, but there is an option WITHIN Blu-Ray playback on the PS3, where you can set the Bitstream (basically meaning the optical out) to Mix, instead of Direct. Direct basically means that there is no touching the audio signal whatsoever. I dunno what the hell Mix is and if it FOUND a Dolby Digital signal embedded in the Blu-Ray OR converted DTS to Dolby Digital, but YES! I can watch Blu-Rays in Dolby Digital!*
> The last time I checked those settings, that option was NOT there, or it WAS but since I didn't know what it did, I left it on Direct, since it's the raw signal! This was apparently added two years ago.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  HOLY S***! *bows down to MLE*
   
  Thank you, thank you!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its just crazy that I'm 2 years late. Who would've known that it does that? Even on the PS3 when you press Select while watching a BD movie, the sound still says DTS. Only when someone mentioned Dolby being possibly embedded on the discs even without being able to change to Dolby, did I start looking around. 

Sigh. Sony needs a full explanation as too what all options do. This is huge for Mixamp owners and the like. I guarantee the vast majority of Mixamp/DSS/etc users are listening to their movies in stereo, because they don't realize this option exists, or know what it does.

I tested it with Avatar. The scene where the jackals surround the main character has pretty amazing rear cues that were obviously missing prior to using Bitstream Mix. I had noticed this because of the time Nameless had let me borrow the SU-DH1 and its DTS decoding.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I know that feeling with features not being documented well enough, especially in the world of PC hardware and games with all sorts of .INI file options you can edit.
   
  I even forget at times that what's become second nature to me is really ridiculously obtuse for the layman, which isn't helped by inconsistent UIs and whatnot. Seriously, I need to write up a new section of the PC gaming audio guide dedicated to understanding a proper X-Fi sound card's capabilities and where all the options are located. (I'd write similar guides for other sound card models if I had some to experiment with.)


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Seriously, I need to write up a new section of the PC gaming audio guide dedicated to understanding a proper X-Fi sound card's capabilities and where all the options are located. (I'd write similar guides for other sound card models if I had some to experiment with.)


 
   
  I only received my Titanium HD and I can already say that I'd be definitely interested! Lots of options are confusing and can actually degrade the sound. I found an existing guide on head-fi that was pretty useful but not complete. Googling the rest wasn't always easy.


----------



## hvizuett

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I would go further than Mad by saying, based on personal experience and research (and taste to a degree), that the Q701 is the better headphone. They both can reach adequate volume (I'll check for you how much headroom the MacBook Pro has left once I get home, but my guess is not much), and IMO even without an extra amp you can hear that the Q701 is very good, but the Q scales up more and will make you most happy when powered by a receiver or desktop amp.
> Going on Mad's comment about the HD598's balanced signature and non-headlining bass performance, I'd actually suggest that the Audio Technica is even better than the HD598 if bang-for-buck in your first hi-fi headphone. A small EQ boost at 80hz and lower can help fill in the bass, but the AD700 always excels in soundstage and "sparkle."
> I personally feel the soundstage of the Q701 and AD700 is great for movies, though for movies with explosions and submarines you may want to boost the bass beyond neutral/natural, which is where the average person seems to like it more.
> If you REALLY want bang-for-buck, Koss KSC-75 clip ons. Not the last word in detail and refinement, yet a very pleasing sound and just $12-$14. Definitely a good walkabout to pair with any reference headphone you keep at home.


 
   
  So let me get this straight.  The Q701 makes a great gaming headphone because of its soundstage.  This means that the bass is neutral/natural so you're able to pinpoint where the enemy is coming from for example.  Is this right?
   
  Aside from that, if I wanted to kick in a bit more bass I would have to buy a desktop amp or receiver.  That way I can immerse myself in movies with explosions for example.  Is this also right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bass isn't exactly tied to amping. Like say the Q701 with a neutral amp (O2) wouldn't add any more bass, more than just give sufficient power to let the bass fill out the sound more, as opposed to making it stronger.

You could easily hook up the Q701 to something as cheap as the Fiio E5 and turn on the bass boost. It actually works well, though alters the sound a bit too much. The E7 while being a very weak amp, has three bass boosting options. EQ1 is subtle, and adds a very nice amount of bass and warmth without altering the Q701 negatively. Still, it's too weak for the Q701.


----------



## I95North

@ MLE

Which model of the DT990 would compliment the HE-400?..In your opinion which headphone is technically better as a all rounder CAN, but best at gaming for directional audio cues? I also have an old reciever that will drive the highest impedance cans along with low impedance also.

I have only tried a DT770 80ohms and 250ohms and both were like earthquake bass made my face vibrate from the bass but it was flabby bass to my ears so I returned both pai after auditioning them. Does the DT990 have the same type bass and all Around close signature as its sibling the DT770?? How different are those in your words for gaming top priority but also as all rounder?? I'm a sound whore in all Cod's and that is what I play mostly when I game..Thinking of picking up a used 600ohms but not sure I will get better than my beloved He-400v2..Hey if it's better at gaming cues hell I'll have another can to add to my collection.


Thanx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... the *Premium* DT990 is most definitely different from the DT770 pro 80 mammoth bass. The DT990 Pro however may have more similarity to the DT770 Pro 80, so avoid that one. The premiums have a strong midbass, but more like an EQ-ed DT880, as opposed to a basshead can. It's GOOD strong bass, not bloated or super exaggerated.

If you have a receiver, the 250ohm would definitely suit you more.

As far as the HE400 vs DT990. No contest. A properly driven HE400 will smoke the DT990 in pretty much all aspects. HOWEVER, the DT990 has a more energetic sound signature, and the bass PRESENCE is a bit more emphasized. The HE400 is definitely more natural sounding and intimate. The DT990 works better for rock and faster music, IMHO. Vocals are a no brainer. The HE400 all the way.

I enjoyed the DT990 even next to the HE400, but the HE400 just has it all, and unless you feel the need for more bass presence than the HE400 gives, the DT990 is not necessary for you, whatsoever.

I just prefer the better comfort on the 990, the lighter weight, bass presence, and energy. Positioning is also slightly better because the DT990 has a drier tone, making it easier to pick up minute sounds. The HE400 is very full sounding which may make notes a bit heavier and harder to pinpoint. Overall though, positioning on both is pretty excellent, and shouldn't have problems gaming with either for both fun and competitive.

The DT990 sounds like a headphone, and the HE400 sounds like a speaker next to it. Imaging is just a supernatural strength on the planars. Seriously, it's a stupid decision to sell the HE-400, but a decision I made regardless (I still can't believe I did that).. They are literally the best headphone I have ever heard. I might like the D7000 sound a little more due to preferences in sub bass being stronger, but the HE400 ticks so many boxes, everyone with $400 to spend should definitely try them.

I might have to revise the comfort score on the HE-400/HE-4 though. The DT990 is definitely more comfy, yet I gave it a lesser score.


----------



## Evshrug

hvizuett said:


> So let me get this straight.  The Q701 makes a great gaming headphone because of its soundstage.  This means that the bass is neutral/natural so you're able to pinpoint where the enemy is coming from for example.  Is this right?
> 
> Aside from that, if I wanted to kick in a bit more bass I would have to buy a desktop amp or receiver.  That way I can immerse myself in movies with explosions for example.  Is this also right?




Hvizuett,
The Q701 makes a great gaming headphone because of it's soundstage, but also it's detail retrieval and something I forgot to mention before - the ability to make different sounds distinct from eachother. That last ability is hard to describe in one word... but it's like when you listen to music through the Q701s for the first time, you may discover that there was another instrument playing alongside the lead guitar, where on lesser headphones it is hard to make out anything but the most forward instruments. Bass is natural, but that only helps you to pinpoint directional cues in the sense that the bass doesn't distract you with overpowering presence.

Explaining the difference an amp makes to someone that hasn't experienced at least some of it is even harder... Kind of like describing the taste of a really great fillet mignon to someone who has only ever had steak, or someone who has always been a vegetarian. I totally agree with Mad that better amp power isn't like using an EQ, that what really happens is the sound fills out more with a greater sense of body, but does that mean anything to you? Just trust me, if you can afford it, try the fillet.

One more thing I can say about the AKG Q701... If anyone has complaints against this headphone, it is just a matter of taste preference to something else. These are definitely very good headphones in every way, and it struck me last night listening again just how musical these are. I'm trying to A/B with my AD700, trying to analyze specific differences at the beginnings of songs... at first it's just that 5% change, a little thing here or there I can pick out, but then I realize that my feet are waving to the music, and I play each song longer on the Q701, till eventually I can't tear myself away and I just listen to a few songs in a row, all the way through, until finally I see the time and I've been awake 19 hours and I'll need to be awake again in 5 hours, and call it a night. The Q's are definitely competitive, but they definitely earn their stars as engaging, fun headphones.

By the way Mad, I didn't put my foam cushion under the headband last night, and the bumps didn't really bother me  Have you ever worn a headphone more comfortable than the DT990? If 10 is highest rather than a theoretical impossibility, then maybe the DT990 deserves a 10 rating. If 10 is reserved for an ideal, then use some calculus to determine that your fav comfort headphone is approaching what is theoretically possible and give it a 10 anyway ;P
I still think that competitive doesn't get any better or easier than the AD700, so those are a great value and a great starting point, but the Q's give me everything. Is it bad that I'm starting to compare my girlfriend to the AD700? LOL! PLEASE DON'T REPEAT THAT!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Stelseries Siberia V1, post headband stretched M50s are more comfy than the Beyers. The Beyers however, have the most comfy pads I have ever worn.


----------



## hvizuett

@Evshrug and @Mad Lust Envy
   
  Is there any way of boosting the bass on the Q701 without altering it negatively?
   
  I thought of maybe just buying the AD700 for "competitive" gaming, and a separate headphone to immerse myself in movies and on single player campaigns.
  Would this be my best bet?


----------



## proGressive13

Really epic review and thanks to all posters for your inputs.

 I have a question concerning my current setup. I have a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty XtremeGamer sound card (a 2008 version so it's getting old but still freaking good) I have coupled it with a DT 770 pro 250 ohms but I cannot get fully impressed by it because... This sound card doesn't have a built-in amp so it's not giving it's best.
  
  I am a kinda competitive gamer, I love having a precise positioning but don't mind if bass take over it. I want my Beyerdynamic beast to be released !

 What is my best bet:
  Buy a new sound card with a built in amp ? If yes, which is your best advise for an audiophile/gamer ?
  Buy an amp and stick it to my X-Fi. Tough I still wanna enjoy the CMSS-3D. Is it possible with an amp ? if yes which ?
   
  In both case I'm ready to put up to 170$

 Thanks a lot in advance for your replies.

 Regards.


----------



## I95North

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... the *Premium* DT990 is most definitely different from the DT770 pro 80 mammoth bass. The DT990 Pro however may have more similarity to the DT770 Pro 80, so avoid that one. The premiums have a strong midbass, but more like an EQ-ed DT880, as opposed to a basshead can. It's GOOD strong bass, not bloated or super exaggerated.
> If you have a receiver, the 250ohm would definitely suit you more.
> As far as the HE400 vs DT990. No contest. A properly driven HE400 will smoke the DT990 in pretty much all aspects. HOWEVER, the DT990 has a more energetic sound signature, and the bass PRESENCE is a bit more emphasized. The HE400 is definitely more natural sounding and intimate. The DT990 works better for rock and faster music, IMHO. Vocals are a no brainer. The HE400 all the way.
> I enjoyed the DT990 even next to the HE400, but the HE400 just has it all, and unless you feel the need for more bass presence than the HE400 gives, the DT990 is not necessary for you, whatsoever.
> ...




Well I just pulled the trigger on the DT990 600ohm for
250 used to try them out if I don't like em I'll return It real fast. You Selling the HE-400 is cool though I know how you feel about the he-400's bass if it was a tad more prominent in the lower end and a tad more tighter or impactful i think you would have kept it...V1 I feel had all the bass weight and impacfullness I ever wanted too bad it kept cutting out and i had to get a v2 He-400. 
Bass is not bad at all in v2 but v1 was just more of it and clean to boot from what I remember. Im sure if you had a chance to listen to a v1 you would not have wanted to part with it. 

Oh well you tried the HE-400 you liked now it's, "been there done that",so now you moved on for whatever reasons that's cool... I just hope the DT990 is just as good at fps games for
me and does music well or even better than my he400's do because I lost warranty on my set for modding it and now I have a pin hole in one of the drivers due to leaving the set out Of it's travel case once and my little one getting a pin through my fiberglass mess screen to tear the trace on one of the drivers.

Almost just purchased another He-400 because HiFi Man does'nt sell drivers separately but for 400.00 I don't think so.. Since my warranty is gone I'll try to repair the torn trace.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would have not wanted it, because it'd be too dark and smooth. I prefer bright and sparkly.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





progressive13 said:


> Really epic review and thanks to all posters for your inputs.
> 
> I have a question concerning my current setup. I have a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty XtremeGamer sound card (a 2008 version so it's getting old but still freaking good) I have coupled it with a DT 770 pro 250 ohms but I cannot get fully impressed by it because... This sound card doesn't have a built-in amp so it's not giving it's best.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Upon recommendations in this thread, I'm currently buying a DT770 Pro 250ohm + x-fi Titanium HD + O2 amp, so I'm in a pretty similar case. I'm not sure what your sound card's worth, but I  think you should keep it and buy an external headphones amp. You can find the O2 for 150$, it should power the beyer properly (it can power 600ohm headphones) and is very transparent (won't colour the sound).
   
  The amp will just amplify the signal and ensure stable voltage, it should not alter it and you will keep the CMSS-3D from your sound card.
   
  This is just what I was recommended in this thread to go with the DT770, I'm still waiting for the O2 to be shipped


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





progressive13 said:


> Really epic review and thanks to all posters for your inputs.
> I have a question concerning my current setup. I have a Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty XtremeGamer sound card (a 2008 version so it's getting old but still freaking good) I have coupled it with a DT 770 pro 250 ohms but I cannot get fully impressed by it because... This sound card doesn't have a built-in amp so it's not giving it's best.
> I am a kinda competitive gamer, I love having a precise positioning but don't mind if bass take over it. I want my Beyerdynamic beast to be released !
> What is my best bet:
> ...


 
  For the lowest cost way ($49.99) for driving 250-Ohm headphones from you current sound card, on Amazon they sell the
 MUSE 6N11 Tube Headphone Amplifier  That's a lot less then $170.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The output impedance is 20-ohm. Jesus, I'll pass. That's distortion city. Shouldn't be too bad for 250ohm though.


----------



## I95North

mad lust envy said:


> I would have not wanted it, because it'd be too dark and smooth. I prefer bright and sparkly.




Yeah i hear yeah.. I can't do too bright n sparkly on any cans because for some reason my ears start to ring after listening to bright headphones after awhile.I hope the DT990 600 ohms are not too bright though from what I have red they are not susposed to be but my ears will let me know for sure! "ring,ring". Lol


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> For the lowest cost way ($49.99) for driving 250-Ohm headphones from you current sound card, on Amazon they sell the
> MUSE 6N11 Tube Headphone Amplifier
> 
> That's a lot less then $170.



I have spent the last month looking into that amp and related, what I found is that the very similar Indeed G2 has upgraded parts, better reliability, and should cost about the same if you bid on it on eBay. You can also "buy it now" for a few more bucks. User Judge Buff has had a lot of success modding and upgrading his Indeed G2, check out everyone's feedback in threads like this one: http://www.head-fi.org/t/484975/indeed-g2

If you would be willing to wait like 2 weeks, I've got an even better single-ended 6DJ8 tube amp with boutique components being custom built for me right now. Its a better design, and it has been kitted out with a lot of the upgrades that made people excited about the muse/indeed/bravo amps. After everything I've read about capacitors, upgraded resistors, etc, I'm REALLY excited to hear this amp, the parts and design appear to add up to a pairing more synergistic than an O2!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/402067/a-super-simple-6dj8-headphone-amp/420

Mad,
You might want to borrow this, it may appeal to you as a replacement for your NFB-5, and a part of me is curious what you'd think of my incoming with your experience with the NFB-5, Lyr, and of course the FiiO E17 you use now. Dunno how it would compare to the Audio GD SA-31 you have on your wish list, of course.


----------



## proGressive13

Thanks a lot for the heads up guys !

 But of course... This is not the kind of stuff that can get shipped in Europe... (Yup... european people here)
  If you have other ideas of stuff that are maybe more "commercial", it's welcome. Otherwise a good sound card for gaming and a built-in amp and Dolby or CMSS-3D (I dunno which would be best for a DT 770) is probably more available in here...

 But thanks again ! Both of the inputs with the Muse and O2 were great ideas  Thanks... Europe !


----------



## Evshrug

progressive13 said:


> Thanks a lot for the heads up guys !
> 
> But of course... This is not the kind of stuff that can get shipped in Europe... (Yup... european people here)
> If you have other ideas of stuff that are maybe more "commercial", it's welcome. Otherwise a good sound card for gaming and a built-in amp and Dolby or CMSS-3D (I dunno which would be best for a DT 770) is probably more available in here...
> ...




proGressive,
RE: muse/indeed/bravo tube hybrids: Pretty sure shipping from china is similar no matter if the destination is USA or Europe.
RE: the O2 has a few European builders, check for Epiphany Acoustics in the UK.
RE: Super Simple 6DJ8 tube amp: the guy building it for me is in Latvia, he wants to turn his modified prototype of the original design into a commercial product.


If you already have a good soundcard, then all you need to do to pass CMSS-3D through the amp is to wire the headphone out of the soundcard to the amp's input, just a regular 3.5mm headphone cable with plugs at both ends will do fine.


----------



## proGressive13

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> proGressive,
> RE: muse/indeed/bravo tube hybrids: Pretty sure shipping from china is similar no matter if the destination is USA or Europe.
> RE: the O2 has a few European builders, check for Epiphany Acoustics in the UK.
> RE: Super Simple 6DJ8 tube amp: the guy building it for me is in Latvia, he wants to turn his modified prototype of the original design into a commercial product.
> If you already have a good soundcard, then all you need to do to pass CMSS-3D through the amp is to wire the headphone out of the soundcard to the amp's input, just a regular 3.5mm headphone cable with plugs at both ends will do fine.


 
   
  Thanks Ev,

 Well I had a look on the Epiphany Acoustic website and I could get one of the O2 from there for sure. But i'm not quite sure of which Amplifier to choose since there is one without DAC (100£) and one with DAC (which is 199£ ofc.)
   
 Personally I will avoid shipping stuff from china. Tbh, I'm just lazy and rather have a more eligible (not meant in a rude way) support when it comes about electronic components.
   
  Last tought, what's your opinion about an FiiO E series ? I kinda got the hint that if I wanna keep my CMSS-3D I should avoid these. Could you confirm or deny this fact ?
 Thanks !


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





progressive13 said:


> Last tought, what's your opinion about an FiiO E series ? I kinda got the hint that if I wanna keep my CMSS-3D I should avoid these. Could you confirm or deny this fact?


 
   
  You don't want the products that only take USB input, because those are effectively their own sound cards.
   
  However, you can get something like the E9 that you can connect via analog, or the E17 that you can connect via S/PDIF as well as analog, if you really want to go the external DAC/amp route.


----------



## proGressive13

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> You don't want the products that only take USB input, because those are effectively their own sound cards.
> 
> However, you can get something like the E9 that you can connect via analog, or the E17 that you can connect via S/PDIF as well as analog, if you really want to go the external DAC/amp route.


 
  Well, to keep my Sound card feature I need to go external so thanks for these inputs. The O2 from Epiphany Acoustic is darn expensive in compare of these and the E17 is pretty portable. I guess these two are my best choice for staying under 150$. I would probably rather the E17.

 If somebody know better let me know but as from what I read about the E17 it is the best nomad Amp/DAC combo at it's price range.
 Do you see any other external amp that could do the trick for the DT770 pro 250 at this price range ? (100-150$)


----------



## genclaymore

You should be able to find something in the used section of this forums in that price range that should work.


----------



## Mjonir

You don't need to buy an external DAC too keep your soundcard features. A DAC is the part that converts the digital signal into an analogue signal, which your sound card already do pretty well. The ODAC or E17 is rather useless for you I think.
   
  Epiphany Acoustic's O2 at 112£ (shipping included) should be well inside your budget and do everything you need. Why does it have to be nomad though?


----------



## Evshrug

progressive13 said:


> Thanks Ev,
> 
> Well I had a look on the Epiphany Acoustic website and I could get one of the O2 from there for sure. But i'm not quite sure of which Amplifier to choose since there is one without DAC (100£) and one with DAC (which is 199£ ofc.)
> 
> ...




Hey proGressive,
You figured out my real name, you sleuth! 

A DAC is a digital-to-analogue converter. Your soundcard already has one to convert digital 1s and 0s into the analogue signal that makes your headphones go VROO VROO (or whatever sound is playing), so you don't need to add an extra one. So thankfully, take that part out of the O2 and you get the same amping performance for less money!

I understand what you mean about support... I don't like to throw money away or wait a couple months for there-and-back-again hardware support through the mail, but the tube hybrids are so cheap that they might be worth the risk, and I've read situations with the Indeed that some people were just sent new amps instead of going through the repair process. It is a personal choice though, for others it has worked out, especially since the 2010 upgrades to the power switch.

I don't know how many € the tube amp I'm getting would be, but Zigis is very friendly and you can PM him here on Head-Fi. He has been working with the initial design in the posted thread for 3 years. Since it's hand built rather than manufactured, I expect he'll be very careful with quality control so he can build his reputation. As I'll get to later, he's actually the 2nd closest to you as a fellow European.

Lastly, I am a fan of the E series from FiiO. Each new product seems to be stronger than the last, and I'm intrigued by the new E12 slated for release between November and December. All of the E series have amps that compete well at their price range, though the one model *you* ought to avoid is the E10 – it's a good DAC/AMP, but it doesnt have any analogue inputs to use with your soundcard. 
The E9 (or E9k with a new dock) is widely consider "the safe bet" for an affordable desktop amp and would have the most power to drive your headphones dynamically. They also come with docks -– the E9 has a dock for the E7, and the E9k is mostly the same amp with a dock for the E17.
The E17 is a popular portable amp/DAC combo unit. Since it has a regular analogue input, you can use it's amp section with your soundcard. The E17 docks with the E9k to lend it's DAC to the E9k, but that shouldn't be important to you in this situation. The E17 has another feature of an EQ – maybe not important to you because you can EQ with more granularity in your computer settings, but it's nice for others plugging into an MP3 player or game console that doesn't have it's own EQ.
The E11 is a portable amp, a little more powerful than the E17. It only has a switch on the side for 2 bass boost settings, but again, you have more control via PC settings anyway. If you look up head-fi'er ClieOS, you'll see that, for a portable, the E11 stacks up as one of the best sub-$100 (US) amps.

The funny part is that FiiO is a Chinese company too! They're a more established company, with better distribution and pretty solid products, but read their website and you'll see that they're definitely from China. That's really not a death sentence... so many things are made in china, after all.

And as long as an amp has analogue inputs, like a 3.5mm headphone jack, they can plug into your soundcard that will still do all it's CMSS-3D goodness like as if there isn't extra amping plugged in-between the card and headphones. Any more questions?


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you would be willing to wait like 2 weeks, I've got an even better single-ended 6DJ8 tube amp with boutique components being custom built for me right now. Its a better design, and it has been kitted out with a lot of the upgrades that made people excited about the muse/indeed/bravo amps. After everything I've read about capacitors, upgraded resistors, etc, I'm REALLY excited to hear this amp, the parts and design appear to add up to a pairing more synergistic than an O2!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/402067/a-super-simple-6dj8-headphone-amp/420


 
  Ev,
  Can I ask what price range Zigis was asking for his tube amp with shipping to US? If I need to PM you just let me know, I'd ask him myself but I'm embarrassed because my wallet is really tight atm and I feel like a cheapskate.


----------



## ruuku

evshrug said:


> Hey proGressive,
> You figured out my real name, you sleuth!
> A DAC is a digital-to-analogue converter. Your soundcard already has one to convert digital 1s and 0s into the analogue signal that makes your headphones go VROO VROO (or whatever sound is playing), so you don't need to add an extra one. So thankfully, take that part out of the O2 and you get the same amping performance for less money!
> I understand what you mean about support... I don't like to throw money away or wait a couple months for there-and-back-again hardware support through the mail, but the tube hybrids are so cheap that they might be worth the risk, and I've read situations with the Indeed that some people were just sent new amps instead of going through the repair process. It is a personal choice though, for others it has worked out, especially since the 2010 upgrades to the power switch.
> ...




Fixed it for ya Ev! 

Regarding the O2 + DAC, remember if you buy the combo in the same enclosure, you're also tying up the DAC with the amp, so you won't be able to use it with any future purchases/amps.


----------



## proGressive13

Thanks guys,
   
  @genclaymore Unfortunately I live in the EU (Belgium to be precise, it's not so much stuff we can get delivered in here... France is way more widely know and ship way more stuff from abroad than here... But thanks !
   
  @Mjonir Regarding the O2, that's what I was guessing, no need of DAC but... You know i'm kinda Junior. Why Nomad ? Well, the idea of having an Amp on any portable player sounds nice to me but... The truth is I have a car so I listen to my car sound system 
   
  @Ev Well I got the feeling that people wouldn't really call their child "Shrug"... That... That would sound akward all their life.
  Thanks for all your detailed information ! And you set my mind very much on the FiiO, i would love an O2 but still, I mean, if the FiiO are enough powerfull for half the price and available on Amazon... I will prefer this solution ! The FiiO E9 it will be I think ! Sorry for Zigis, tough I migh PM and ask him some detail on his product 

 I don't think I have much more questions, you really helped and that's awesome ! You are awesome ! I will stick around and will post my impressions when I got my E9. (As soon as my wallet get refilled)

 Cheers to you all !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I went ahead and did it. I ordered the 250ohm DT990. Getting it tomorrow. 

This will hopefully put to rest whether jumping straight to the 250ohm over the 32ohm makes more sense.

On one side, the 32ohm will sound good off minimal amping. On the other side, many devices you plug your headphones into have a high output impedance (like a lot of AV Receivers), which will negatively affect the DT990/32 due to it not having ohms to be properly damped. 

In theory (and probably practice), the 250ohm would be the most versatile, as it can be powered by portable amps (though not as well as the 32ohm), receivers, and have a lower noise floor. 

It costs about $55 more used than the 32ohm, but oh well. The things I do out of curiosity. This will complete my testing of all ohm versions of the 990.

I will see just how much the 250ohm needs out of the Mixamp vs the 32ohm, as well as see how well the E17 drives the 250ohm vs the 32ohm, which should be at it's limit with it. Testing for bass, mids, treble, dynamics, soundstage, and directionality when gaming.

If I decide on keeping the 250ohm, I'll probably end up with an E9K soon after. :rolleyes:

Ironically, it seems the E9K is ever so slightly weaker than the E9. I wonder why?


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> Fixed it for ya Ev!
> Regarding the O2 + DAC, remember if you buy the combo in the same enclosure, you're also tying up the DAC with the amp, so you won't be able to use it with any future purchases/amps.




@_@
Omg, thanks ruuku! I guess you know what other amp I was just reading about on another thread... I'll go edit my post!


----------



## chroniX

Well, I still haven't purchased new headphones yet, but I did place an order for a FiiO E9 desktop amp. Also placed an order for an RCA to stereo cable to connect the amp to my Titanium HD soundcard. Hope I got the right one. Luckily they're both expected to come in today.

I'm somewhat hoping the E9 will make a huge difference paired with my HD595s, but I know that the Senns are very efficient and probably wouldn't benefit much from an amp. We'll see. Either way, I'll be ready for when I do eventually upgrade to the Q701s or DT990s.

Will give you guys my impressions later.


----------



## Evshrug

fa11ou7 said:


> Ev,
> Can I ask what price range Zigis was asking for his tube amp with shipping to US? If I need to PM you just let me know, I'd ask him myself but I'm embarrassed because my wallet is really tight atm and I feel like a cheapskate.




Well to be quite honest, I'm not sure yet what he's going to sell it for. But it seems like you might have to set it as something to save up for... I think he's targeting it to be a tube competitor to compete with/surpass the O2 in musicality, with good quality components. Keep in mind, NwAvGuy released the O2 design for free, and chose his components to cut costs while staying within scientific tolerances. The result is pretty transparent and powerful, but Zigis' tube amp will have the unique coloration of tubes, and chose his components based on upgrading the sound from the design I linked to before, which was already reviewed as superior to the Millet Starving Student amp. Zigis' amp will also be a desktop amp, not the something-inbetween the O2 is.

I'm getting a finished prototype, gonna take a lot of pictures and write about the internals & sound, so I'd recommend that if you're interested, set up a plan to set aside some money with each paycheck and wait to hear what you'd get for your money. Meanwhile, how would you describe your Koss headphones? Did you write a review?



progressive13 said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> @genclaymore Unfortunately I live in the EU (Belgium to be precise, it's not so much stuff we can get delivered in here... France is way more widely know and ship way more stuff from abroad than here... But thanks !
> 
> ...




proGressive,
 D'aw, I'm not all that awesome, just a little bit obsessive. And I'm kinda "junior" about what Nomad means...
In my old-ish car, I use my iPod to supply music to my car through a cassette tape adapter (it's better than any FM Radio adapter), and I found that using my FiiO L11 line-out dock adapter and the modest E5 amp really helps out the weak system that came with my car. The difference was pretty clear: before the E5, everything sounded so weak I thought the previous owner had blown the speakers, now it sounds just fine 

One last thing, as a desktop amp, the E9 needs to be plugged into a wall outlet for power. I think Zigis' product would be more of an upgrade from the E9, so cost wise it isn't a bad idea to go for the E9 or E9k first. Solid State amps, like the E9 and O2, are largely similar in sound yet vary in power, whereas a Single-Ended tube amp like Zigis' has more coloration that can vary a lot by switching out the tube. Having a SS amp and a tube amp ought to compliment eachother well, though I'm jumping straight to Zigis' amp so I can play with tube rolling 

Also Mad, doesn't the E9's larger 1/4" headphone jack have lower output impedance? Or is it just better grounded?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, the E9 wouldn't be a good pairing with the Sennheisers, because not only are the Senns efficient, but they are low ohms, which wouldn't be a good pairing with the high output impedance of the E9. This isn't the final word on whether they will sound good or not, but you usually want to pair your headphones with amps that have 1/8th the output impedance of the headphones's impedance.

For example, the E9 has a 10ohm output impedance. For proper amping you'll want to use headphones that have 80ohms or more for the E9 (8x the output impedance). When a headphone isn't at least 8x the output impedance, the amp may alter the sound signature, by either making bass weaker/stronger, treble harsher, etc.

The Q701 and HE400 are exceptions, because their signature doesn't change much if any, no matter what the output impedance of the amp is. Some headphone differ dramatically if you pair them up with an amp that has too high an output impedance.

This is why the E9 shouldn't be used for low ohm headphones, like the Sennheiser.


----------



## chroniX

mad lust envy said:


> Uhh, the E9 wouldn't be a good pairing with the Sennheisers, because not only are the Senns efficient, but they are low ohms, which wouldn't be a good pairing with the high output impedance of the E9. This isn't the final word on whether they will sound good or not, but you usually want to pair your headphones with amps that have 1/8th the output impedance of the headphones's impedance.
> For example, the E9 has a 10ohm output impedance. For proper amping you'll want to use headphones that have 80ohms or more for the E9 (8x the output impedance). When a headphone isn't at least 8x the output impedance, the amp may alter the sound signature, by either making bass weaker/stronger, treble harsher, etc.
> The Q701 and HE400 are exceptions, because their signature doesn't change much if any, no matter what the output impedance of the amp is. Some headphone differ dramatically if you pair them up with an amp that has too high an output impedance.
> This is why the E9 shouldn't be used for low ohm headphones, like the Sennheiser.




Yeah I wasn't expecting for it to make much difference for the Senns. I got the E9 in preparation for my upgrade to the Q701 or the DT990. But are you saying that the HD595 could possibly sound worse with the E9? Didn't know that, I just thought I wouldn't really hear a difference since they're already efficient. That would suck if it's actually worse off with the amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here are examples of what I'm talking about... (and yes the Senns MAY sound worse off the E9)

HE400 (to be honest, Planars are pretty output impedance proof)




DT880/32 (as an example of what non-optimal output impedances can do)



The O2 would be a much better buy for low ohm headphones, because it has an extremely low output impedance (I believe it's less than 1 ohm).


----------



## chroniX

Sorry I don't really understand what that graph is saying. Could you explain what is happening in that DT880 graph to the sound signature? Is it making it more bassy, harsher treble? Not sure what to take away from that.

Edit: Also, I think you said the E9 would be good for the Q701, but how about the DT990? Or would the DT990s prefer a lower output impedance


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Taken from innerfidelity:



> 6 - FREQUENCY AND PHASE RESPONSE: Guideline: +/- 0.5dB and 1 degree. These can be graphed together:
> 
> Frequency Response – This is mainly a concern with tube amps, single-ended amps, and capacitor coupled outputs. All usually roll off the deep bass into lower impedances and a few corrupt the highs as well. Generally the amplifier standard for “flat enough” is less than 1dB total variation from 20hz to 20Khz and it’s critical to test with the lowest realistic impedance. Response specified without dB limits and load is nearly meaningless.
> Phase Response - This is a sensitive indicator of what's happening outside the audio band and can alter the “soundstage” and spatial perceptions. The error should be under 1 degree from 10hz to 10Khz where spatial information is most critical.




From the DT880 graph, the phase is all over the place, altering the sound in a bad way. You want less than ONE degree. The HE400 is almost perfectly flat all the way through except in the highest treble range, which is basically inaudible to our ears anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chronix said:


> Sorry I don't really understand what that graph is saying. Could you explain what is happening in that DT880 graph to the sound signature? Is it making it more bassy, harsher treble? Not sure what to take away from that.
> Edit: Also, I think you said the E9 would be good for the Q701, but how about the DT990? Or would the DT990s prefer a lower output impedance




The 990s come in 3 different ohms.

32ohm (which would NOT be good for the E9 due to the high output impedance)

250ohm (more than enough damping factor... 25x the output impedance, well above the danger zone of less than 8x, and the E9 should have plenty of power for it.)

600ohm (this has the lowest noise and distortion, but wouldn't be driven to it's best ability by the E9. It sounds good, but it was missing a little in dynamics and body. The 32ohm just off the E17 sounds fuller than the 600ohm 990 off the E9)


The 250ohm 990s would suit the E9 best.

Basically, if you use a headphone with an amp that has less than 1/8th the impedance, they should look like the HE400's graph, where the amp won't alter the sound signature in a bad way. The problem is, most companies don't state what the output impednace is on their amps, and people buy them for regular, low ohm headphones, not realizing that it's not helping their headphones at all. Yes, giving it more power, but not in a good way.

The E9 should be bought only for those with headphones in the 80-300ohm range for best synergy. 600ohm will do well too, but it doesn't take voltage swings into account. The Sennheiser 595 actually has impedance swings that shoot the impedance to around 225ohm in certain frequencies. That's a HUGE jump. That's why 600ohm headphones aren't ideal for the E9. Those headphones can shoot up past 600ohm making the E9 struggle with dynamics.

I believe the HD800 is notorious for having massive impedance swings, which is why people recommend some incredibly powerful amps for them.


----------



## chroniX

I see thanks. I was going to get the 32 ohms like you did but I'll go with the 250 ohms if I pick up the DT990. Just out of curiosity, if I was planning to keep the HD595, would I have been better served with an E11 or E17 (I want to use my x-fi soundcard as the dac)? If not those, which one would have been the best for $100 or under. It doesn't need to be portable.

The O2 would be my ideal choice but that would be out of my budget at the moment so I'm just wondering what would be the next best for the HD595.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the 32ohm DT990 is fine, as long as you don't pair it up with amps with a high output impedance. Great amps are powerful and have low impedances, like the O2, NFB5, Asgard. This makes them more versatile in what it can drive without affect sound signature. 

And yes, the E11/E17 are portable amps with very low output impedances, which wouldn't do bad things to the Senn.

The HD595 is very efficient. It does have massive impedance swings (relative to it's rated ohm), but portable amps like the E11/E17 should handle those peaks (at least on the 595). I think it jumps up to 225ohm at it's worst peaks. The Fiio E11/E17 would be fine with it (as well as the 990/32). 



For fun look at the HD800. The HD800 starts at 300ohm, and the peaks go up to over 600ohm. :rolleyes:



So basically at 100hz or so, the HD800 acts like a 600+ohm can, and then goes back to normal in the midrange. That's scary. That 300ohm rating on the HD800 is deceptive.


----------



## chroniX

Thanks man, I'm really finding all this informing, I didn't know there was such thing as impedance swings and that the 595s can get that high in ohms. I sort of wish I posted this before I ordered the E9. If I were to have known that the E9 could make things worse instead of maybe just not making much difference, I might have gone with something else. Could have saved a bit just getting an E11 which would work fine with the Q701 and DT990 too I'm guessing? Would the E17 would have worked with my soundcard or no because it has its own DAC and is USB?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chronix said:


> I see thanks. I was going to get the 32 ohms like you did but I'll go with the 250 ohms if I pick up the DT990. Just out of curiosity, if I was planning to keep the HD595, would I have been better served with an E11 or E17 (I want to use my x-fi soundcard as the dac)? If not those, which one would have been the best for $100 or under. It doesn't need to be portable.
> The O2 would be my ideal choice but that would be out of my budget at the moment so I'm just wondering what would be the next best for the HD595.


 
  Which model X-Fi are you using?
  If it has an optical output, you can connect the Fiio E17 with an optical cable, so you would be able to take advantage for the E17's WM8740 DAC chip
  And still get CMSS-3D headphone surround sound thru the optical to the E17.
  If your current X-Fi do not have optical out, you can get a refurb Creative Titanium (non-HD) for $44.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043


----------



## chroniX

purpleangel said:


> Which model X-Fi are you using?
> If it has an optical output, you can connect the Fiio E17 with an optical cable, so you would be able to take advantage for the E17's WM8740 DAC chip
> And still get CMSS-3D headphone surround sound thru the optical to the E17.
> If your current X-Fi do not have optical out, you can get a refurb Creative Titanium (non-HD) for $44.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043




I have the X-Fi Titanium HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chronix said:


> Thanks man, I'm really finding all this informing, I didn't know there was such thing as impedance swings and that the 595s can get that high in ohms. I sort of wish I posted this before I ordered the E9. If I were to have known that the E9 could make things worse instead of maybe just not making much difference, I might have gone with something else. Could have saved a bit just getting an E11 which would work fine with the Q701 and DT990 too I'm guessing? Would the E17 would have worked with my soundcard or no because it has its own DAC and is USB?




The Q701 is a very hard to drive headphone. You'd barely be tapping into it's potential with the E11.

The E11 would work best with the 32ohm DT990. It'd technically be at it's limit with the 250ohm. I get my 250ohm DT990 tomorrow, and will test it out with the E17 (which essentially has a similar internal amp as the E11, if just a smidge weaker). I'll let everyone know if they sound weak through the E17 compared to the 32ohm.

Oh here's a graph showing the 595 compared to the 880/32. As you can see, the 32ohm DT880 stays at 32ohm pretty much the entire range. The 595 however...look at that phase...and the impedance swing :eek: Just remember, that phase is due to the output impedance mismatch.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 990s come in 3 different ohms.
> 32ohm (which would NOT be good for the E9 due to the high output impedance)
> 250ohm (more than enough damping factor... 25x the output impedance, well above the danger zone of less than 8x, and the E9 should have plenty of power for it.)
> 600ohm (this has the lowest noise and distortion, but wouldn't be driven to it's best ability by the E9. It sounds good, but it was missing a little in dynamics and body. The 32ohm just off the E17 sounds fuller than the 600ohm 990 off the E9)
> ...


 
  Would the O2 amp drive the 600ohm well? Or should I look for something else (non-tube possibly)? I might get rid of my E9-7 once I have more money and buy something better...I just don't want to separate myself from my 990s. I love 'em too much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The O2 is just slightly stronger than the E9 at 600ohm. I'd get something else, as I don't think the O2 would be an improvement of the E9 for the 990. The O2 is also very neutral, which may highlight the DT990 treble more, which it definitely doesn't need. I think the Asgard or MStage would suit your 990 more. I hear they're both ever so slightly smooth.

As for the Beyers, I don't think they have large impedance swings, so the 600ohm Beyers should stay roughly at 600ohm all throughout (which I still feel is a bit too much for the E9 to drive to it's very best ability, unlike the Senns which peak a bit (seen the 595,650,800 graphs, and they all have a huge peak at 100hz).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chronix said:


> I have the X-Fi Titanium HD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102033


 
  So you really do not need to add an external DAC to the Titanium HD, just get any external headphone amplifier you like.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey mad, how did/do you have your song of the day (in your signature) setup? I imagine you don't change your profile by hand every day, though seeing how often you change your profile picture I wouldn't be too surprised if you do


----------



## chroniX

I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my titanium hd soundcard and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?

So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595

Also what is Pre_Output and Line Out for? Could I hook my speakers up to this amp as well (I'm using PC speakers with a 3.5mm jack)?

And I'm guessing I shouldn't use the Gain switch for my HD595 right?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chronix said:


> I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my Titanium HD sound card and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?
> So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595


 
  Correct, TiHD RCAs to the 3.5mm line-in on the E09.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The O2 is just slightly stronger than the E9 at 600ohm. I'd get something else, as I don't think the O2 would be an improvement of the E9 for the 990. The O2 is also very neutral, which may highlight the DT990 treble more, which it definitely doesn't need. I think the Asgard or MStage would suit your 990 more. I hear they're both ever so slightly smooth.
> As for the Beyers, I don't think they have large impedance swings, so the 600ohm Beyers should stay roughly at 600ohm all throughout (which I still feel is a bit too much for the E9 to drive to it's very best ability, unlike the Senns which peak a bit (seen the 595,650,800 graphs, and they all have a huge peak at 100hz).


 

 Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.
   
  *edit*
  Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|


----------



## ruuku

naingolann said:


> Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.
> 
> *edit*
> Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|




Ummm... am i missing something? Wouldn't you just use a 3.5mm minijack from the DSS to RCA to connect to either the M-Stage or Asgard? or am I mistaken?


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





chronix said:


> I will be plugging the cable into the two RCA connectors from my titanium hd soundcard and the 3.5mm side into the line in on the E9, is that correct?
> So Titanium HD >> RCA OUT >> 3.5mm Line in >> E9 >> HD595
> Also what is Pre_Output and Line Out for? Could I hook my speakers up to this amp as well (I'm using PC speakers with a 3.5mm jack)?
> And I'm guessing I shouldn't use the Gain switch for my HD595 right?


 
   
  Is there a reason you use the RCA out rather than the 3.5 jack out from the Titanium HD? Just curious


----------



## chroniX

mjonir said:


> Is there a reason you use the RCA out rather than the 3.5 jack out from the Titanium HD? Just curious




I can't remember the reason but I was told the RCA out provides better quality. I think it uses a better OPAMP or something and higher decibel level. And unless I'm mistaken, using the headphone output with the amp could introduce noise since it would be amplifying an already amped signal. Not 100% positive though.


----------



## Evshrug

chronix said:


> I can't remember the reason but I was told the RCA out provides better quality. I think it uses a better OPAMP or something and higher decibel level. And unless I'm mistaken, using the headphone output with the amp could introduce noise since it would be amplifying an already amped signal. Not 100% positive though.




RCA's in general have less crosstalk, because they are physically separated. There may be something else to it; I don't know if the Ti HD specifically put extra cost into separate components for the RCA outputs (doubt they'd spend any budget besides on a resistor or something), but I don't think it's going to make much of a difference.

Edit: oh wait, I think I remember now: the RCA jacks are a line-out connection, so you don't have amp coloration and a raw analogue signal to pipe into an external amp for gain and attenuation.



naingolann said:


> Thanks, I got worried at first. But anyway, I'll give a look at those two amps you suggested.
> 
> *edit*
> Ugh...no way to use the DSS with either. :|




Uh, yeah, connection would be like just the opposite, connect the headphone out to the RCA jacks. You ought to leave the DSS at 70-80% volume for best results, or whatever is the best balance between a strong Signal:Noise ratio and not too high that the DSS starts clipping, and use the amp (such as Asgard, M-Stage, O2, Et al) to set the volume at a listenable level.


----------



## Mjonir

Yes, but is the crosstalk argument still valid if you end up with a 3.5 jack anyway?
   
  chroniX: Why do you say the jack out is more amped than RCA? Since the voltage on the RCA seems to be higher (2V vs 1V I think), I'd say it's the RCA that's more amped?
   
  I'd be interested if anyone knows if there are valid differences between the two outputs on that card. I had already googled it but found nothig.


----------



## Evshrug

mjonir said:


> Yes, but is the crosstalk argument still valid if you end up with a 3.5 jack anyway?
> 
> chroniX: Why do you say the jack out is more amped than RCA? Since the voltage on the RCA seems to be higher (2V vs 1V I think), I'd say it's the RCA that's more amped?
> 
> I'd be interested if anyone knows if there are valid differences between the two outputs on that card. I had already googled it but found nothing.




You're right, the crosstalk becomes moot when you adapt it back to 3.5mm (or 6.3mm) jack, but that was the point I was making anyway, that there wouldn't be significant difference. That is, until I remembered that RCA jacks are usually used as line-outs or pre-outs. Not ALWAYS the case, but it might be in this one... Way to know (if it's not documented) would be to hook up something and see if you can turn down the analog volume, without first limiting the gain digitally. Not sure how to type that more clearly... Hope you get what I'm referring to! LOL! (If you did, you probably already know what a line-out does and I'm being useless).


----------



## chroniX

I believe I read it somewhere in this thread. It seems both opamps are used when RCA out is used. I think I've seen GenClaymore here at head-fi too so he could probably answer your question better. 

Also, just an update, I received the E9 and have it all hooked up. First impressions: I hear an improvement, it sounds clearer and seems to use more of the soundstage. But I think that's in part because it's also louder. I'm trying to get it to match the volume I was listening to without the amp. 

With the amp, Windows volume should be 100% and adjustments to volume should be done using the amp's volume knob, correct?

Will be doing some more listening and post an update if any one is interested.


----------



## Rebel975

In the case of something like the Xonar ST/X the RCA jacks would be the clear choice for external amping, as the headphone jack has a pretty potent amp. And, why would you double amp if you could avoid it?
   
  I would (and do) use the RCA's on the Titanium HD though. Even though the card doesn't have much of any headphone amp I still feel like it makes more sense to use the RCA's as they are made for external amplification.
   
   
  And yes- keep the Windows volume at 100% and adjust volume with the amp.


----------



## kellte2

I ended up biting on a DT 990 (32 ohm) from Amazon WarehouseDeals and they're in great shape - MLE, you threw me over the edge with your glowing recommendation from a few days ago.  Unfortunately, the DSS2 is just barely able to get them going.  With the knob at the max setting, it just gets loud enough to feel as though you're experiencing the full range of sound.  If you adjust it down, even slightly, the sound gets weak. 
   
  I'm somewhat disappointed, but this should have been expected.  I knew that the MixAmp is widely considered to be more powerful than the DSS2 and I know that the DT990s are hard-ish to drive (even in 32 ohm).  My question is now whether I should: 1) buy an amp and keep the 32 ohm; 2) buy an amp and get the 250/600 ohm version of the DT990; or 3) go back to the drawing board. I'm willing to shell out a little more money to feel like i'm getting an upgrade over my old HD555s, but I don't want to go crazy.  I was considering biting on something like the E9, but even after reading through this thread for weeks, I'm not even sure if many would recommend going with the 32 ohm DT990 paired with an amp.  I'd really appreciate some advice!
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Eric_C

It shouldn't be hard to get an amp that's good enough for both 32 and 250-ohm variants. Get one of those, and if you think the 250 would be better, get that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As far as my SOTD, I change it myself, though I get lazty, lol.

Certain soundcards won't do virtual surround through the RCA out, so you NEED to use the headphone jack into another amp. Not sure which do and which don't. RCA outs tend to be line out, which bypass the virtual surround processing, and you're stuck with stereo. Better to ask those who own said cards whether they do or don't.

Nain, plug your amp to the DSS with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. That's it. As far as volume, I'd actually max out the DSS to make sure you're getting the full resolution of sound. If the volume is too low, you'll lose information and dynamics. However, if the DSS clips at max volume, you may have to lower it a bit. All I know is that I don't have that probem with the two Mixamps I have owned and max them out.

Skullcandy has reach out to me to review a product(s). I wanna say yes, and they do happen to own Astrogaming, so I wonder if they'd send out an A30/A40/A*Star/new Mixamp. Or I wonder if they wanna send out something purely Skullcandy related. They reached out because I defended them on Engadget, as people keep bashing them needlessly when SC has been making great strides with their newer products.

Dunno whether to accept or decline, as I'm not a pro reviewer, and I focus on the gaming aspect of this hobby.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kellte2 said:


> I ended up biting on a DT 990 (32 ohm) from Amazon WarehouseDeals and they're in great shape - MLE, you threw me over the edge with your glowing recommendation from a few days ago.  Unfortunately, the DSS2 is just barely able to get them going.  With the knob at the max setting, it just gets loud enough to feel as though you're experiencing the full range of sound.  If you adjust it down, even slightly, the sound gets weak.
> 
> I'm somewhat disappointed, but this should have been expected.  I knew that the MixAmp is widely considered to be more powerful than the DSS2 and I know that the DT990s are hard-ish to drive (even in 32 ohm).  My question is now whether I should: 1) buy an amp and keep the 32 ohm; 2) buy an amp and get the 250/600 ohm version of the DT990; or 3) go back to the drawing board. I'm willing to shell out a little more money to feel like i'm getting an upgrade over my old HD555s, but I don't want to go crazy.  I was considering biting on something like the E9, but even after reading through this thread for weeks, I'm not even sure if many would recommend going with the 32 ohm DT990 paired with an amp.  I'd really appreciate some advice!
> 
> Thanks.




How are you liking the DT990/32 so far, from the little you've heard?

Also, just get a Fiio E11. That's all the 32ohm will ever need.

However, I'm getting my 250ohm tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll let you know if it seems weak vs the 32ohm out of the E17, which is comparable to the E11, amp-wise. I probably won't be able to give impressions tomorrow as I'll undoubtedly be sleeping, but this Sunday will definitely be the day I do. We both have a few weeks to return our 990/32.


----------



## Eric_C

MLE, that's awesome! Where would they want said review? Are there parameters to it? e.g. length, how harsh your criticisms can be (if any)?


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How are you liking the DT990/32 so far, from the little you've heard?
> Also, just get a Fiio E11. That's all the 32ohm will ever need.
> However, I'm getting my 250ohm tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll let you know if it seems weak vs the 32ohm out of the E17, which is comparable to the E11, amp-wise. I probably won't be able to give impressions tomorrow as I'll undoubtedly be sleeping, but this Sunday will definitely be the day I do. We both have a few weeks to return our 990/32.


 
  I'm really liking the DT990/32 so far..  While I appreciate some COD online, I am mostly in for the single player stuff and these things really shine when you're not worried about detecting footsteps across the map.  As you stated on the OP, great combination of fun and competitive/positioning.  I'm very interested in hearing them driven with an amp, but I'm going to stay tuned for your 250 ohm review.  It could tip me, once again, into following your lead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eric, they haven't given any restrictions (yet). They just asked if I was interested.

I will probably decline if they expect me to sugarcoat things though. I'd definitely be a little more professional with my wording in case I don't like something, but you guys will know if I like something or not. I'm doing this for the love of the hobby, lol.

I rather they send me something gaming related, as I don't think I'm good at review based purely on music and non-gaming side of audio.

If they happen to send something not Astro-related, I'll probably borrow my family's CAL and M50, as I have a feeling it will be a closed headphone, and I'll need something to compare them to.


----------



## Eric_C

Cool stuff. Go for it, and be clear what you won't do, and what your interests/specialisations are.


----------



## Rebel975

The Titanium HD can do virtual surround sound through the rca jacks, if anyone was wondering.  I used to own the Xonar St and I'm pretty sure it can't- hence why I switched to the Titanium.


----------



## Mjonir

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> The Titanium HD can do virtual surround sound through the rca jacks, if anyone was wondering.  I used to own the Xonar St and I'm pretty sure it can't- hence why I switched to the Titanium.


 
   
  Thanks for the info 
   
  Are relatively cheap RCA -> jack converters any good? Maybe I'll try and compare RCA/jacks, but I only own one good analogue cable which is jack/jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Monoprice is your best friend.


----------



## chroniX

mjonir said:


> Thanks for the info
> 
> Are relatively cheap RCA -> jack converters any good? Maybe I'll try and compare RCA/jacks, but I only own one good analogue cable which is jack/jack.




Yep, this is the one I use: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2

Works great, no issues at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only thing I don't like about that one, is that it's so stiff and bulky. Really high quality though. I just prefer a bit more flexibility/less bulkiness in my cables if I'm using portable devices. I go for monoprice when it comes to stationary interconnects, like from a desktop setup dac into an amp.

For a bit more, Amazon has this one...

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-design-accomodates-smartphone/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350048233&sr=8-6&keywords=3.5mm+male+to+rca+male

A lot more pliable. Mediabridge makes good cables.


----------



## chroniX

Hmm MLE or anyone, could you please listen to http://soundcloud.com/nettwerkmusicgroup/junkie-xl-made-for-each-other-feat-jan-hammer this at like 3:39....it's fine for me there but then around 3:58 onwards I start hearing some distortion / crackling (not sure what the audio terminology would be for this). I'm wondering if this is because of my amp or if it's just the way the song is


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chronix said:


> Hmm MLE or anyone, could you please listen to http://soundcloud.com/nettwerkmusicgroup/junkie-xl-made-for-each-other-feat-jan-hammer this at like 3:39....it's fine for me there but then around 3:58 onwards I start hearing some distortion / crackling (not sure what the audio terminology would be for this). I'm wondering if this is because of my amp or if it's just the way the song is




Listening to it now. Just by looking at the waves... it looks like it's almost all distortion. Pretty ugly looking distortion.

edit: Definitely the track. It's crackling like crazy right where you noted.



Man, just listening to music off the DT990/32. The 250ohm is gonna have to truly jump in quality of soundstage and airiness to make me wanna give these up. Hell, I may end up returning both just so I can get a MANUFAKTUR...

What you think of these? (I think the first two actually look better with silver arms): (BEFORE ANYONE ASKS, NO I DON'T LIKE BLACK VELOURS. They look bland and they pick up dust in a mad hurry)











I was looking at the MMX300, and I like the carbon fiber housing on it.



So a DT990 version of the MMX300 (sans mic)



I just kind of prefer black metal arms, not silver, though a part of me feels the silver arms better matches the velours.


----------



## chroniX

Thanks for checking into that song for me, I thought it might be symptoms of using the amp and my HD595. 

Those look gorgeous, could you customize the impedance / ohms too? On the MX300 styling, I prefer the black arms. But on the red one I think the silver arm looks sharper. With the blue/green I prefer the black one.

How much are these and have you looked into getting them used?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, after shipping they'll all cost over $450. :rolleyes: You're literally spending hundreds for the customization, though the real leather headband padding isn't cheap itself.



And yes, you can change what ohm you want, though for some reason the 600ohm is a bit more expensive than the other two which are the same price.

Used MANUFAKTURS are very rare, lol.

http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/hifi-manufaktur/dt-990-manufaktur.html

http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/hifi-manufaktur/dt-990-manufaktur.html

The EU one has more customization options, but are even more expensive.



I'd SO get this, if it was available in the USA store. About the only way I'd take black velours. I'd even remove the silver tabs (I've done it before).

Maybe an Oreo DT990?



I lowered the contrast since the website exaggerated the white too much.


----------



## chroniX

Yikes...$450? Is all that's different are the colors? If so, I'd personally just look into getting your regular dt990s professionally painted and maybe buying velour earpad replacements in the color you'd like. It'd be a lot cheaper I'm guessing and will probably look the same for the most part.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How are you liking the DT990/32 so far, from the little you've heard?
> Also, just get a Fiio E11. That's all the 32ohm will ever need.
> However, I'm getting my 250ohm tomorrow. Stay tuned. I'll let you know if it seems weak vs the 32ohm out of the E17, which is comparable to the E11, amp-wise. I probably won't be able to give impressions tomorrow as I'll undoubtedly be sleeping, but this Sunday will definitely be the day I do. We both have a few weeks to return our 990/32.


 
   
  Looked into the E11 last night and this morning.  Everything, including the price, looks good, but I'm a bit concerned about the battery situation.  I don't plan on using the amp as a "portable" solution and the inability to charge and function at the same time seems like it will be a headache.  I know that you have mentioned that the E17 is comparable amp-wise to the E11, but it seems like you're able to disable battery power on that model to function more like a desktop amp - with the lower output impedance that will be able to drive the 32 ohm DT990.
   
  Am I crazy to be caught up on the E11 battery situation?  It might be cheap enough to ignore this minor "issue" but wanted to see if others had any thoughts.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 works through USB or battery power without having to turn anything off.

As for the MANUFAKTUR, I'm a sucker for customization. I'm literally going to keep the DT990 as my main can, and getting a custom one will make it that much more special and make me not wanna go back to my old ways and sell them.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> As far as my SOTD, I change it myself, though I get lazty, lol.
> Certain soundcards won't do virtual surround through the RCA out, so you NEED to use the headphone jack into another amp. Not sure which do and which don't. RCA outs tend to be line out, which bypass the virtual surround processing, and you're stuck with stereo. Better to ask those who own said cards whether they do or don't.
> Nain, plug your amp to the DSS with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. That's it. As far as volume, I'd actually max out the DSS to make sure you're getting the full resolution of sound. If the volume is too low, you'll lose information and dynamics. However, if the DSS clips at max volume, you may have to lower it a bit. All I know is that I don't have that probem with the two Mixamps I have owned and max them out.
> Skullcandy has reach out to me to review a product(s). I wanna say yes, and they do happen to own Astrogaming, so I wonder if they'd send out an A30/A40/A*Star/new Mixamp. Or I wonder if they wanna send out something purely Skullcandy related. They reached out because I defended them on Engadget, as people keep bashing them needlessly when SC has been making great strides with their newer products.
> Dunno whether to accept or decline, as I'm not a pro reviewer, and I focus on the gaming aspect of this hobby.




Holy Mad!
I had a similar offer to write reviews and articles for cameras, and it was some of the most fun I'd had working. I got paid to do it for Macworld Magazine, so my situation may have been a bit more neutral and "journalistic" than yours, but it was really gratifying to do the review and get feedback. Plus, if you don't like something, it's your chance to influence a very visible company to make some great products! If you don't think your assessment of the early Astro A40s won't turn them off, they might see you with a whole lot more value and respect if you point them to this monster of a thread that you've headed... it really is a powerful argument for respecting your opinion. IMO you've got enough experience to be a pro reviewer, and ppl trust your reviews, you just might want to flesh out what you write if it's focused solely on one product (the short form you have been using works better for your guide).

Also, just wanted to bring back mention of the V-MODA M-100. The pre-order units have shipped, and are getting interesting and favorable reviews, check out this impression on soundstage for example: http://www.head-fi.org/t/592389/v-moda-m-100-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-etc/7725#post_8772253


----------



## Evshrug

kellte2 said:


> Looked into the E11 last night and this morning.  Everything, including the price, looks good, but I'm a bit concerned about the battery situation.  I don't plan on using the amp as a "portable" solution and the inability to charge and function at the same time seems like it will be a headache.  I know that you have mentioned that the E17 is comparable amp-wise to the E11, but it seems like you're able to disable battery power on that model to function more like a desktop amp - with the lower output impedance that will be able to drive the 32 ohm DT990.
> 
> Am I crazy to be caught up on the E11 battery situation?  It might be cheap enough to ignore this minor "issue" but wanted to see if others had any thoughts.




If you get the E11 from Micca, it comes with a spare battery & external charger. With that, I don't see how you could have a problem. Or just charge it every time you go to sleep, every other day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, I don't like the V-moda style. It's a bit too aggressive looking for me. Like it's trying too hard. Hell, I'm not a fan of the 990 grills, but black grills would make them less showy. I wish the 990s had the 880 grills with the same sound.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, I don't like the V-moda style. It's a bit too aggressive looking for me. Like it's trying too hard. Hell, I'm not a fan of the 990 grills, but black grills would make them less showy. I wish the 990s had the 880 grills with the same sound.




Well it's all taste of course, I'd say the same about the MANUFAKTR (sp?) beyers. Swappable customization is a helluva lot cheaper with the V-MODAs as well, and you can get custom engravings. I bet you didn't even read any of the feedback or reviews in that thread. But, all that said, I respect that the styling isn't to your taste. IMO they look better in person, thought they were too "bling" from the pictures.

But seriously, no comment about the SC reviewing? Are you worried that you'll be tempted to compromise your opinions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 250ohm has arrived! I have about 30 minutes to play with them. :rolleyes:



evshrug said:


> Well it's all taste of course, I'd say the same about the MANUFAKTR (sp?) beyers. Swappable customization is a helluva lot cheaper with the V-MODAs as well, and you can get custom engravings. I bet you didn't even read any of the feedback or reviews in that thread. But, all that said, I respect that the styling isn't to your taste. IMO they look better in person, thought they were too "bling" from the pictures.
> But seriously, no comment about the SC reviewing? Are you worried that you'll be tempted to compromise your opinions?




No comment about what? Am I worried? No. If they ask me to hold back, I will decline. I will be more professional instead of saying blegh, eww, or AMAZING, BESTEST EVAR.  I will do about as much as what I did for the Pro 900/2900/HE400 (those are my biggest entries). It's a shame I didn't make the other entries as big as those, but that comes with experience, I guess. Hell, the first version of this guide was horrible, IMHO. It looked so rushed.

As for the M100, they have two strikes against it. They're pleather padded, and closed. That is automatic disqualification for my personal interest. Of course, I'd try them if someone sent them to me or whatever, but as far as me personally, they don't do a thing for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First impression: DT990/32 vs 250 off the E17...

It's almost impossible to tell, they sound almost identical, like 99%, with the 250ohm winning just a smidge in soundstage, and it's like if I REALLY stressed to hear the difference. They're almost exactly the same, with one exception... the 250ohm on +12 gain at 33 volume, where the 32ohm is at +6 gain at 33 volume.

So yes, the 250ohm needs more power than the 32ohm. Absolutely. However, the 250ohm sounds as dynamic and full as the 32ohm out of the E17. So far so good. 

This is an initial impression off one track. Don't take this as a final say.

So far, all I can say is that they're too similar to say one is better than the other really. Like 99% the same, seriously.

I'm gonna have to spend some good time with them.

It's actually quite remarkable how similar they are despite the huge ohm difference. I KNEW the differences were exaggerated on here. I KNEW it came down to what you were hooking them up to. To be honest, as long as you have a decent amp, the 250ohm IS the better choice, as you won't have to worry about an amp's output impedance, has lower distortion (though not noticeable from what I can tell off the 32ohm so far), and may scale with amping more than the 32ohm.

Still, with a portable amp (as well as unamped), the 32ohm is just absolutely fantastic.

edit: Okay, I notice a slight harshness in the 32ohm compared to the 250ohm in the treble. I stress slight. It's like a fine grain that isn't there on the 250ohm. Interesting. Please understand, it's very minute. If I had both of them here, and put them on your head, I'm almost certain you'd have no idea which was which, that's how absurdly close they are to one another. The 250ohm also sounds a LITTLE fuller in the bass. This actually makes the 32ohm sound just a slight bit more detailed in the mids, because there is a hint less bass presence. Again, very small. So far, I'm liking the very subtle extra bass presence on the 250ohm.

Agh, bed time. Tomorrow, I'll be testing it with games. probably the RE6 demo first.


----------



## hvizuett

Ok so in regards to the surround sound processors posted at the bottom of this guide, are those the only ones available to purchase, or are there a lot of other options out there?
   
  I'd like to buy the AKG Q701 and use these for gaming on a PS3, but I wanted to know which surround sound processor was best for this purpose.
   
  Also if I wanted to voice chat, will that affect or alter the sound coming from the headphones?
  I read somewhere that this does happen, so I wanted to see which processor would be best for this purpose.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

hvizuett said:


> Ok so in regards to the surround sound processors posted at the bottom of this guide, are those the only ones available to purchase, or are there a lot of other options out there?
> 
> I'd like to buy the AKG Q701 and use these for gaming on a PS3, but I wanted to know which surround sound processor was best for this purpose.
> 
> ...




Hi, me again.

The only other surround processors I've heard of are the DSS2, which FWIR aren't as good as the original DSS found dirt-cheap on eBay, and the processor unit bundled with the Tritton (by Madcatz) AX720 headset. For consoles, the Mixamp is regarded the best, and IMO the Recon3D is a good compromise if you want an all-in-one unit for headphone surround without being required to plug your console into a computer soundcard, especially if you see it on sale.

I use my Q701 with my Recon3D to good results, but honestly, if you aren't going for extra amping for a while and just want to play on a console, get the Mixamp (slightly better amp, which may/may not be the reason the Mixamp gives a slightly better rounded soundstage than the Recon3D). New Mixamps are out of stock at the moment, we expect there is a 2013 model on the way with slight changes.

It's kind of a niche market, but as our gaming generation grows up and expands, I bet it'll get bigger.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok so I couldn't resist playing a little.

Off the Mixamp 5.8 alone, I had to max out the volume to feel it had sufficient volume. I don't have that problem with the 32ohm.

The 250ohm is quieter with the Mixamp in terms of hiss at a similar decibel level, as to be expected.

They both sounded identical in the RE6 demo in terms of soundstage and directionality.

Now... I tested them with the E17 off the 3DS.

I fired up the Rhythm Thief demo which I'm acquainted with (I WANT THIS GAME, LOL).

Hmm, this is where the 250ohm shows its weakness. The E17 had to be maxed out at full gain, and it sounded choked. The volume was decent, but there was little dynamics, and energy. In comparison, the 32ohm didn't need to be maxed out, and sounded awesome.

Regardless of the very, VERY minute differences, the 32ohm is winning for me. The versatility, energy, and slight clarity over the 250ohm makes it a winner to me.

Now the 250ohm obviousy needs a desktop amp, (IMHO). With the E17, you will get away with some sources, not others. If you're sticking to portfable amps, the 32ohm is the one you want. If you getting a desktop amp, the 250ohm is the no brainer.

Either way, choose whichever suits your setup, and not whether one sounds slightly better than the other, because to be completely honest, they are too similar to truly say one is superior.

Of course, I'll probably spend all of my days off testing, but I'm almost positive the 32ohm is the one I want. It works for everything, whereas the 250ohm is more picky and still sounds pretty identical.


----------



## I95North

Oh my look what the cat just dragged in!
   

   
  So far only listened to one song   Maroon 5  "Sunday Morning"  I like what i hear so far.. The can is  siblant very little but i must test out other song tracks i have, that track is a lil siblant to begin with..
   
   
  Cans ran out of old marantz receiver
   
   
   
  No Gaming yet i have to cut lawn maybe later tonight i get to try this can out with both dss's decoders  and recon3d to see how it fares in games for me. This will let me know if i will keep them or send them on there way back to the seller


----------



## smeand

Hi forum,
 [size=small]  [/size]
  First, only few weeks ago, i found this great forum, that have so much knowledge, 
  and i was so excited to find this thread, cause its like match made in heaven,
   
  and without even know about this thread, after few weeks of research, i found out, about Astro Mixamp Pro/5.8 product, 
  and later, i found out about the HiFiMAN HE-400 Headphones.
   
 [size=small] Mad Lust Envy, was kindly enough, to answer many of my questions privately, [/size]
but now i have some more questions, and want to hear what others here think.
   
 [size=small] maybe i should give some kind of background about the way i live, that its a very small flat, [/size]
  so i cant get alot of noise, plus, even if i want, i cant afford a full 5.1/7.1 surround system.
  my needs for this setup, is to be able, to simulate 5.1 surround sound from my PS3, Xbox360 and my Popcorn-Hour A-210, 
  im not that online player, and i usually watch ALLOT of movies,.
  i MUST say, cause it will be very obvious, in this conversation that im total newbie in everything about sound/connections/amps/dacs...etc.
   
*But my total setup goal, is exactly as Mad Lust Envy!*
   
  And this is my questions:
   
*1.* about the choose between the Astro Mixamp products, i prefer to get the wired Mixamp Pro, only cause i don't want to get the little slight background noise, that has been mention,
but it seems that only the wireless 5.8 Mixamp, is available for buy alone and can be found on stock, and the wired Mixamp Pro i can only find with the A30 or A40 and when i already find the Mixamp Pro alone,
its out of stock, those anyone here know some place i can buy the Mixamp PRO?
   
*2. *now i have amp question, im aware that the E17 is DAC and AMP, 
  but i was thinking, that as AMP, the E17 would have better quality then the E11 AMP,
  but after reading this review: http://www.headfonia.com/the-upgrade-fiio-e17-alpen/2/ im not so sure, maybe the E11 AMP is actually better? what u think?
  in the same E17 review, [size=small]the reviewer mention the possibility of treble control on the E17, im guessing u cant do this with the E11, or can u? [/size]
  [size=small]and if its that important function, for gaming and movies?[/size]
   
 [size=small] *3.* NOW, if i didn't sound STUPID enough to this point, this questions will, so please don't laugh, [/size]
  let say for example, that u play with your PS3 or A-210, how is your setup need to be been "chained"?
  those it go from the Mixamp to the E-17 to the PS3/A-210 OR its go from the E-17 to the Mixamp to the PS3/A-210?
  and in what cables, do i use? to "chained" them together? those the E-17 SPDIF and Coaxial inputs, 
  doesn't important for the "chain" of connections between the devices?
  can you please explained it to me? again don't laugh even a photo of your setup could be amazing and helpful!

 thanks for taking the time for read,
  its all been massive help for me.
   
  regards
  smeand


----------



## ruuku

1. Right now the Mixamp pro is being "refreshed", Astro is adding on a EQ and changed the styling of the Mixamp, thus many speculate that it may take some time before it released as a standalone. If you can't wait, Ebay is your friend. 

2.MLE stated before that the power output of the E11 and E17 are very similar. If you need/want more power from a portable amp then you'll have to wait for the E12 (if you wanted to buy a Fiio product). OR you could go for a non-portable route, which generally better. The E11 has only a 3 setting bass boost, no treble adjustment. 

3. I have no idea what an A-210 is (Edited Google'd it). In any case you would connect your ps3 like this PS3--(optical connection)-->Mixamp--(Analogue connection)-->amp-->headphones. IF you wanted to use your HTPC with the mixamp, you'll either have to unplug the optical from the PS3/Mixamp (If you have 2 optical cables, you can leave them both connected at the source and switch the connections at the Mixamp, Though MLE stated that the he busted his mixamp's tos port so this may not be the best solution). The better way, is to pick up either a powered optical switcher (just search "Powered optical switch" on amazon) and use that to change the signal line, or buy a 2nd Generation wired mixamp, which has coax digital audio and use that to connect the A210 into the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

i95north said:


> Oh my look what the cat just dragged in!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why does the right cup have a metallic looking pad? I have no clue what I'm looking at. It looks like liquid metal. O_O


----------



## kellte2

To those with the DT990, is the headband adjustment relatively loose?  There is very little resistance on the left cup when adjusting up and down until it is extended all the way.  The adjustment holds when it is on my head, but when relaxed, both cups easily move up and down.
   
  Also, when swiveling the cup left and right, a "pop" noise sometimes comes from the metal arm moving within the plastic enclosure.  Normal?


----------



## SleepyMellow

Hi everyone this is my first post - warning noob here!! I was attracted to this site after reading MLE's review of headset brands that I have never heard of (my last pair was Sony MDR-v6 over 20 years ago and the muffs disintegrated 5 years ago), and have come away learning there is an alternate world that I have been missing. I am not a good writer so I will cut to the chase, and again big thanks to MLE. 
   
  I just built my first computer last month and am using 5+ year old Logitech X230 2.1 speakers that are falling short in games like Skyrim and BF3. Generally if I hear someone/something coming from out of sight, I have to wait until they strike first so I know which way to react. This has me at a real disadvantage and I don't even want to try MMO without a good pair of headphones. For music, the IPOD generation has passed me by and I generally only listen to pandora premium. Pandora says the acoustics are better with the premium service but I can't tell the difference with these speakers.
   
  It looks like I will be getting the CAL headsets based on this review (best bang for the buck) but need advice for soundcard and amp (only if needed). I don't listen to music very loud - riding a motorcycle requires me to be aware at all times so I am used to enjoying the tunes at lower volume. 
   
  Budget is $250 for everything (headset, soundcard, amp). I would like to get these in technology that will last for the next 5 years of gaming. I can wait for Cyber Monday if necessary to get best deal. 
   
  Thanks and help is appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kellte2 said:


> To those with the DT990, is the headband adjustment relatively loose?  There is very little resistance on the left cup when adjusting up and down until it is extended all the way.  The adjustment holds when it is on my head, but when relaxed, both cups easily move up and down.
> 
> Also, when swiveling the cup left and right, a "pop" noise sometimes comes from the metal arm moving within the plastic enclosure.  Normal?




The pop is normal. Every single Beyer I've owned has it. The adjustments are a PITA, and it gets tight or loose depending on the angle the arms enter the 'top'. You might have to move them around a bit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sleepymellow said:


> Hi everyone this is my first post - warning noob here!! I was attracted to this site after reading MLE's review of headset brands that I have never heard of (my last pair was Sony MDR-v6 over 20 years ago and the muffs disintegrated 5 years ago), and have come away learning there is an alternate world that I have been missing. I am not a good writer so I will cut to the chase, and again big thanks to MLE.
> 
> I just built my first computer last month and am using 5+ year old Logitech X230 2.1 speakers that are falling short in games like Skyrim and BF3. Generally if I hear someone/something coming from out of sight, I have to wait until they strike first so I know which way to react. This has me at a real disadvantage and I don't even want to try MMO without a good pair of headphones. For music, the IPOD generation has passed me by and I generally only listen to pandora premium. Pandora says the acoustics are better with the premium service but I can't tell the difference with these speakers.
> 
> ...




Welcome! So $250 for everything? Hmm...

What kind of music do you listen to mainly? The CAL is warm, bassy.

I prefer open headphones to recommend, but the only ones I know in your price range are like the AD700 (which lack bass), a used HD555 or better, the HD558.

None of these rely on amping (for the most part and especially at lower volumes), and a good soundcard would probably be like an Xonar DG or Essence ST for your needs. I'd go for those as they have Dolby Headphone, and wasn't impressed with CMSS 3D personally. YMMV.

Keep in mind, none of these have a microphone, so if you need a mic, you may have to get an external one like the modmic.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Welcome! So $250 for everything? Hmm...
> What kind of music do you listen to mainly? The CAL is warm, bassy.
> I prefer open headphones to recommend, but the only ones I know in your price range are like the AD700 (which lack bass), a used HD555 or better, the HD558.
> None of these rely on amping (for the most part and especially at lower volumes), and a good soundcard would probably be like an Xonar DG or Essence ST for your needs. I'd go for those as they have Dolby Headphone, and wasn't impressed with CMSS 3D personally. YMMV.
> Keep in mind, none of these have a microphone, so if you need a mic, you may have to get an external one like the modmic.


 
  I am in Miami,FL and everyone I know loves bass thumping and but not overwhelming the music so I appreciate your help. I listen to everything except country and classical/opera. Are HD558 good for 3+ hours of gaming? The MDR's would hurt my ears after 30 minutes. Where do you recommend to find best prices for these items? Thanks again for fast response.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just got my DT990/32. Great condition. Sounds stellar.


 
  Where did you order yours from?  Amazon?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, like new for $196. I think I'm gonna keep the 32ohm and return the 250ohm.

Its either that or return it, sell the E17 and get an ODAC+E9K. I bought the E17 mainly for the bass/treble controls, but I don't need them with the 990s. This way I'd keep the ODAC n my comuter setup, and transport the E9K whenever I want to use them in my bedroom.

I prefer the hassle free E17+DT990/32 though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sleepymellow said:


> I am in Miami,FL and everyone I know loves bass thumping and but not overwhelming the music so I appreciate your help. I listen to everything except country and classical/opera. Are HD558 good for 3+ hours of gaming? The MDR's would hurt my ears after 30 minutes. Where do you recommend to find best prices for these items? Thanks again for fast response.




Okay, so the CAL would suit you best. Wait...

$250? Why not get the DT990 Pro ($170 on Amazon), plus maybe a Xonar DG ($26 on Amazon), and an E11 ($50)? Hook up the E11 to the DG's headphone jack (if it doesn't do surround sound off the analog outs).

IF you can wait a little more, the E9 or E9K would be much better than the E11. This would be near $300 though. 

The main thing here, is the DT990 Pro is much better than the CAL. Hell, the DT990 Pro is super comfy, fantastic bass, and directionality.

They are open design so they leak out, just like the 558/555.


----------



## smeand

*Thank you very much Ruuko!*
   
  BTW, do you have some ETA when to expect that "refreshed" Mixamp Pro?


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so the CAL would suit you best. Wait...
> $250? Why not get the DT990 Pro ($170 on Amazon), plus maybe a Xonar DG ($26 on Amazon), and an E11 ($50)? Hook up the E11 to the DG's headphone jack (if it doesn't do surround sound off the analog outs).


 
  What is the link for the DT990 Pro at $170? is that for new set? If I get a used DT990/32, can I forego the E9?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pros tend to go for $170 on Amazon most of the time. The used 990/32 will go for a little less than $200. If you get the 32ohm, you will still need an amp, like the E11. You won't need more than that (and the Xonar DG, of course).

I prefer the DT990/32 over the 990 Pros.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> IF you can wait a little more, the E9 or E9K would be much better than the E11. This would be near $300 though.


 
  Story of my life... The computer I built last month started at $500 on paper and ended at over $1k, I read that the DG only has 5.1, is the 7.1 dead in the future of gaming? Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone is 5.1. At least in terms of external devices like the Mixamp which state 7.1, its a lie. You can only get 5.1 from SPDIF.

I dunno how it works for soundcards, but my guess is that they'll sound the same.

The first video on the first page I posted shows the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 on Dolby Headphone. They sounded basically the same to me.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the DT990/32 over the 990 Pros.


 
  That is saying a lot since you also have the D7000. I will wait for them to go on sale, anybody buy used in the past, anything I should look for?


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, like new for $196. I think I'm gonna keep the 32ohm and return the 250ohm.
> Its either that or return it, sell the E17 and get an ODAC+E9K. I bought the E17 mainly for the bass/treble controls, but I don't need them with the 990s. This way I'd keep the ODAC n my comuter setup, and transport the E9K whenever I want to use them in my bedroom.
> I prefer the hassle free E17+DT990/32 though.


 
  link?!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amazon, search 990 32ohm, look at the used list. 

Get them from the ones that say Amazon Warehouse deals or what have you.

The Like New may not be on there now though. May have to settle for 'Very Good'.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sleepymellow said:


> That is saying a lot since you also have the D7000. I will wait for them to go on sale, anybody buy used in the past, anything I should look for?




Sorry for the double posts, but my phone has a problem with editing lasts posts today for some reason.

The D7000 is the supreme headphone for me. HOWEVER, it has pleather pads that get too hot, too fast for me. That is the ONLY reason I don't have them. This is why I only buy headphones with velour pads now. The DT990 is the closest thing I have in terms of the bass presence I want, comfort, and airiness.

The HE400 is right next to the D7000, but I wanted just a little more presence in the bass without EQ. I need to assure people that the HE400 is bassy. Give them power and its bass is amazing. I just want a tilt towards more bass. Personal preference.

Both the HE400 and D7000 smoke everything else I have heard. As far as what's next, the 990s would be it. The 990 Pros would have been next, but it has a bass that bothers my ears for some reason. The Pro 900 actually has more bass, but it doesn't hurt my ears.

I'd put the Pro 900 next to the DT990, but the Pro 900 has S-logic which makes them a pain to put on your head perfectly without altering the SQ, which the 990 and typical dynamic cans don't have. Also, the Pro 900 is closed, which lose out to the 990's open sound (more semi-open though).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> None of these rely on amping (for the most part and especially at lower volumes), and a good soundcard would probably be like an Xonar DG or Essence ST for your needs. I'd go for those as they have Dolby Headphone, and wasn't impressed with CMSS 3D personally. YMMV.


 
   
  YMMV indeed...did you ever try these videos on for size?
   





   




   
  That's CMSS-3D Headphone at its positional best (CoD2 uses DirectSound3D IIRC, BF2 uses OpenAL, so it's getting proper 3D audio in both cases). It sounds like proper 3D binaural audio to me, not some cheap stereo upmix.
   
  EDIT: I don't know why the CoD2 video broke, but that should fix it.


----------



## Grymok

mad lust envy said:


> Amazon, search 990 32ohm, look at the used list.
> Get them from the ones that say Amazon Warehouse deals or what have you.
> The Like New may not be on there now though. May have to settle for 'Very Good'.




Have searched alittle on amazon.co.uk for the DT 990/32 ohm, link http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-Premium-Stereo-Headphones-32/dp/B0024NK344/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350120028&sr=8-1
Maybe it's me, but that feels abit overpriced compared to the DT 990/250 ohm http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-Headset-250/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=pd_cp_ce_0
I save 120£ for the DT 990/250 ohm ones.
Now my question goes, can the Asus Essence STX drive the 250 ohm, or should i just get the cheap 35£ soundcard and get one of those Fiios? .
Or just run the setup through my Denon Avr 1912?.
Probaly gonna upgrade my reciever to some Yamaha Rx-3010, but as i can see it''s out of production so a new one will be out soon .
Hope someone can give alittle hint here


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ones I saw were off a Russian site that had comparisons between DH, CMSS, and CMSS3D. It was vids with the same scenes on all three. Only the DH one did it for me. 

I'll have to wait until I'm home to see these, as youtube doesn't wanna play nice when I'm at work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

grymok said:


> Have searched alittle on amazon.co.uk for the DT 990/32 ohm, link http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-Premium-Stereo-Headphones-32/dp/B0024NK344/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350120028&sr=8-1
> Maybe it's me, but that feels abit overpriced compared to the DT 990/250 ohm http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-Headset-250/dp/B0011UB9CQ/ref=pd_cp_ce_0
> I save 120£ for the DT 990/250 ohm ones.
> Now my question goes, can the Asus Essence STX drive the 250 ohm, or should i just get the cheap 35£ soundcard and get one of those Fiios? .
> ...




Your STX would be perfect for the 250ohm. No extra amping needed. The Receiver should work well too. The 32ohm wouldn't match with the STX, due to having a high output impedance which would negatively affect the 32ohm.

Also, the Premium Beyers are more expensive than the Pros due to better aesthetics, and parts. They also don't clamp as hard as the Pros. The 990 Pros have noticably more bass than the Premiums. I like the bass on the Premiums more. I'd get the Premium 250ohm over the Pros, unless you're strapped for cash.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Is the treble of the dt990 premium similar, less than or more than the Q701s?
   
  Edit:  I read a bit more about the dt990 premium and have only read treble peak.  I am not a fan of treble peaks...lol so I appreciate the heads up on the cheaper pricing on the HP's but I'm gna cancel my order.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've mentioned the DT990's treble over and over again. I mean all of Head-fi should know by now that the DT990 is a love it or hate it headphone. If you don't like emphasized treble, stay away from the DT990s. Its that simple.


----------



## boomer12

Been having this problem for a while and figured I'd ask.  Googled but didn't find anything similar to my situation.
   
  My setup is DT990 premium 32ohms hooked up to a Mixamp 5.8 via optical cable.  Xbox 360 and PS3 are both set to output DD5.1 sound.  When I turn my Mixamp's bass boost on, the sound during certain explosions and/or many different sound effects playing at the same time (varies per game) causes the sound to loudly crackle and bother my ears.  Is there a fix for this? ot ruling it out, but I wouldn't think it would be the cables since it happens on both 360 and PS3 which each have their own optical cable.   I feel like the bass boost adds a lot but this issue can be unbearable with certain games (Sonic Adventure 2 XBLA as a recent example).  
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, that is the Mixamp 5.8 not being able to handle the bass when the bass boost is on. Turn it off. If you want more bass than the DT990, you're crazy, or just a basshead. Should've got the DT990 pros instead, though the Mixamp alone wouldn't have been sufficient.

If you want more bass for the DT990, and external amp with bass boost (like the E7, E11, E17), will add bass without that problem.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> YMMV indeed...did you ever try these videos on for size?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The first vid doesn't work, and the second vid... I'm GLAD the Mixamp is Dolby Headphone. CMSS3D sounds like expanded stereo to me. Even THX Tru Studio presents a better surround effect, IMHO. CMSS3D is marginally better than regular stereo, but if that's as good as it gets, I can't say I'll be recommending it to those that want virtual surround. It sounds like a headphone with expanded stereo, while Dolby Headphone actually sounds like sounds are coming from all around you. I'm actually very disappointed. It definitely does have a clarity in sound effects, but it lacks severely in immersing me in a full soundfield.

I want people to know right now, that my case for virtual surround sounds nothing like CMSS3D. If that is what I heard back when I first got the Mixamp, I'd probably just stick to stereo. I don't see it as much of an improvement. Night and day difference between CMSS3D vs DH, THX Trustudio, and the Headzone. (the last three are more similar than CMSS3D).

That vid reminds me of the old Russian ones I saw that had the DH comparisons. Didn't work for me then, doesn't now.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, that is the Mixamp 5.8 not being able to handle the bass when the bass boost is on. Turn it off. If you want more bass than the DT990, you're crazy, or just a basshead. Should've got the DT990 pros instead, though the Mixamp alone wouldn't have been sufficient.
> If you want more bass for the DT990, and external amp with bass boost (like the E7, E11, E17), will add bass without that problem.


 
  Thanks for the ridiculously fast reply lol.  
   
  Good to know it's the Mixamp and not a cable.  I guess I'm just a basshead, because I swear with bass boost on the sound becomes deeper/fuller/better in some way...very hard to describe. There are a handful of games that don't have sound crackle (not sure if it depends on the game's sound mix) and bass boost makes them sound flat-out better to me. I may invest in an amp and see how it goes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It sounds fuller because you're boosting the lower frequencies. That would happen with any headphone. The lower end is what gives things fullness.


----------



## boomer12

Just ordered an E7.  With me having no experience with amps, the E17 seemed a bit pricey to jump in on.  Thought about the E11 but my laptop's sound card is likely crap (2009 cheap laptop with stock card) so the E7's DAC should be of some use.  Interested to see the results.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I like how the blue matte yoke and alluring looks with the black grills and pads.

This may be what I do if I decide on a MANUFAKTUR. I previously didn't even look at the blue, because the website makes it look purple-ish. 

Okay to update from the comparisons between the 32ohm vs 250ohm Premiums.

Now with a clearer mind, and time to compare, I can see... the 250ohm does have a noticeable fullness that isn't there in the 32ohm. I mean they sound very similar, but the 250ohm has a tiny layer of warmth (especially in the bass) that is evident compared to the 32ohm. The bass has an assuring thump that is more or less less present in the 32ohm. The 32ohm's leaner bass makes the mids pop out more, no question (the 250ohm is more recessed), but the sound as a whole sounds more ever so slightly more refined in the 250ohm.

The 250ohm's sound is 'bigger'. Like the 32ohm has a slight congestion in comparison. It's more noticeable now than yesterday, but it's a definite difference. I mean, they both sound like 990s, but the 32ohm sounds... smaller, if that makes sense? The 32ohm has a dry tone compared to the 250ohm, which sounds more musical to me. Still, the 32ohm definitely highlights vocals more, more than likely due to the dryness of the sound, and less warmth in the bass.

I've been A/B-ing, and if I forget which I have on, I wouldn't be able to pick one out. Literally apples vs apples.

If you're gonna see yourself with a desktop amp, get the 250ohm. If you're trying to live with bare essentials, the 32ohm + Mixamp will be fine, and you'll want a portable amp if using voice chat.

As for right now, I think I'm leaning on the 250ohm (just barely, but I'm enjoying the slightly darker tone). The E17 sounds good with it for my PC, as well as with my Mixamp. For everything else, I guess the KSC35 will have to do, until I decide on a desktop amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd like to A/B the 250 and 600 ohm DT990s, but that'd mean I'd have to get a damn amp, which is something I don't wanna do right now. All I know is that the 250ohm definitely has the most bass out of the Premiums. The 32ohm and 600ohm have similar quantity of bass. The 250ohm has the warmest sound of the three, though with the least amount of mids. Again (I have to stress this), you'd have to have them side by side to tell the differences. Don't wreck your brain overthinking which is better because they're really too alike. 

For the LAST time: 

Portable amp? 32ohm (if you're ever thinking of upgrading to a desktop amp, may as well go for the 250ohm)
Entry-level desktop amp (E9K)? 250ohm (you can get away with this one with certain sources and a portable amp)
Audiophile desktop amp (Asgard, M-stage, and beyond)? 600ohm. (don't bother until you have something that outputs at least 100mw at 600ohm.)



boomer12 said:


> Just ordered an E7.  With me having no experience with amps, the E17 seemed a bit pricey to jump in on.  Thought about the E11 but my laptop's sound card is likely crap (2009 cheap laptop with stock card) so the E7's DAC should be of some use.  Interested to see the results.




The E7 is a (DAC+ AMP) (a very weak amp which is basically the E5's amp, but should be *ok* for the 32ohm). However, the amp has EQ1, EQ2, EQ3 which are three levels of bass boost. EQ1 should be about similar as the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost in terms of bass, but better quality, and no distortion). The other two are incredibly sloppy and overwhelming (waaaaaaay too much bass that drowns out detail). If you're using an onboard soundcard now, the E7 will be better.


----------



## mnautss

Hello there,
  the thread looks of great help to me as I am confused with these nimber of virtual surround things.
     I recently bought a Tt esports Shock One gaming headset with DTS sensation surround technology.
  I spent my 100$ on it, hoping to get serious surround. But when I play FPS games, all I get is Echo in surround sound. Seriously, I cannot tell which way the bullet is coming and where the grenade is coming from.
   
  Do I need some dedicated sound card for this?? I have installed the drivers for headphones and turned the surround on. Please help! Tell me if any extra hardware is needed. 
   
  About the headphones, I will say :--
  1) Decent bass
  2) Extremely comfortable (I wear glasses, now you may imagine how comfortable they are)
  3) Clear Sound
  4) BUT damn poor surround. Infact, it will be a shame to call it surround sound. It is simple echo.
   
http://www.flipkart.com/tt-esports-shock-headset-one/product-reviews/ITMD24Q7YNY3FHEA?pid=ACCD24Q5V2PQEETH&sort_order=most-recent
   
  Review posted on 10th october 12 is mine.
   
  I need to understand virtual surround in more depth and also, what all extra hardwares can  be used with my headsets (having DTS codecs) to obtain effective surround. If i install a DTS digital surround codec, or DTS neo codec, will I get effective surround that I want?? PLEASE HELP!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is why I don't bother with pc gaming. I'm betting you probably need the proper options turned on, and make sure the games you play support DTS or what have you, not to mention your soundcard. You can't just plug it in and expect it to work. You may wanna ask Nameless, over at the PC thread (linked on the very first post of this guide).



> *3) Surround sound is available only through drivers, and only stereo is available if you don't run the drivers.
> 4) Surround is available only for Windows users. For MAC fans, all you have is stereo sound. May be you should start looking for something else by now.
> 6) It took me 3 days to figure out how to turn on Surround. you do need to UNINSTALL your Realtek HD audio drivers (or equivalent), so that your Tt drivers take full control over your headsets. Ensure that DTS surround sensation button is RED that is, it is turned on (just click on it if it isn't).*










Hell, I had my NFB5 for months, and then I realized that I didn't change the options to accept anything over 16/44 or 16/48. The NFB5 accepts 24/96 and 24/192. All that time, I wasn't utilizing it at all... :rolleyes:

Not that it matters, music is 16/44 or 16/48 anyways.




Man, I'm really struggling here, as to which I wanna keep, the 32 or 250? UGH. This is TOUGH. I wasn't kidding. They're too close to call. Each have their pros and cons. If I keep the 32ohm, then I don't need to buy ANYTHING else. If I keep the 250ohm, I'm gonna want a desktop amp, and this will make me feel like I'd better just spend the extra for the 600ohm.

Logic states I keep the 32ohm, and I'd be very happy with them. Saves me the money. Hell, maybe in the future, if/when I come back to this hobby in full force, I'll get the 600ohm and Audio-GD SA-31. I can keep the 32ohm as my easily driven alternative.

I realize that there's more of a difference with music than gaming. I tend to play more than listen to music. They literally sound alike for gaming through the Mixamp. Like identical really.


----------



## chroniX

If you are set on getting the Manufaktur's, then I'd just keep the 32 ohm for now. You can get the manu's in 250 or higher later on when you save up.

Although another thought is for the same price as a Manufaktur (or cheaper), you can keep the 250 ohm and get a good desktop amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Point is, I don't want a desktop amp, as I have to constantly move it from the bedroom to the living room. With the 32ohm, I'm just moving the E17 around.


----------



## chroniX

I see, then it seems like 32 ohms would be best. Would you say that the 32 ohm reaches it's full potential with the E17, or would even the 32 ohm see an improvement with a desktop amp despite it's lower impedance?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think it needs more than the E17. I had it (the first 32ohm 990 I had) paired up with the NFB5 which was feeding it 3.5watts(!) and is a much different beast than the E17. All you're looking forward to after the E17 is just whatever amp you hook it up to imparting it's own signature on the 990/32. In the case of the NFB5, it added body and warmth, and made the treble less screechy (an Audio-GD positive trait).

The 250ohm however could use more than the E17 for the certain sources, though from what I can tell, it'd still be within the 5% difference I spoke of.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As far as my SOTD, I change it myself, though I get lazty, lol.
> Certain soundcards won't do virtual surround through the RCA out, so you NEED to use the headphone jack into another amp. Not sure which do and which don't. RCA outs tend to be line out, which bypass the virtual surround processing, and you're stuck with stereo. Better to ask those who own said cards whether they do or don't.
> Nain, plug your amp to the DSS with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. That's it. As far as volume, I'd actually max out the DSS to make sure you're getting the full resolution of sound. If the volume is too low, you'll lose information and dynamics. However, if the DSS clips at max volume, you may have to lower it a bit. All I know is that I don't have that probem with the two Mixamps I have owned and max them out.
> Skullcandy has reach out to me to review a product(s). I wanna say yes, and they do happen to own Astrogaming, so I wonder if they'd send out an A30/A40/A*Star/new Mixamp. Or I wonder if they wanna send out something purely Skullcandy related. They reached out because I defended them on Engadget, as people keep bashing them needlessly when SC has been making great strides with their newer products.
> Dunno whether to accept or decline, as I'm not a pro reviewer, and I focus on the gaming aspect of this hobby.


 
   
  Quote: 





chronix said:


> Yep, this is the one I use: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5597&seq=1&format=2
> Works great, no issues at all.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only thing I don't like about that one, is that it's so stiff and bulky. Really high quality though. I just prefer a bit more flexibility/less bulkiness in my cables if I'm using portable devices. I go for monoprice when it comes to stationary interconnects, like from a desktop setup dac into an amp.
> For a bit more, Amazon has this one...
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-design-accomodates-smartphone/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350048233&sr=8-6&keywords=3.5mm+male+to+rca+male
> A lot more pliable. Mediabridge makes good cables.


 

 Thanks guys.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The first vid doesn't work, and the second vid... I'm GLAD the Mixamp is Dolby Headphone. CMSS3D sounds like expanded stereo to me. Even THX Tru Studio presents a better surround effect, IMHO. CMSS3D is marginally better than regular stereo, but if that's as good as it gets, I can't say I'll be recommending it to those that want virtual surround. It sounds like a headphone with expanded stereo, while Dolby Headphone actually sounds like sounds are coming from all around you. I'm actually very disappointed. It definitely does have a clarity in sound effects, but it lacks severely in immersing me in a full soundfield.
> I want people to know right now, that my case for virtual surround sounds nothing like CMSS3D. If that is what I heard back when I first got the Mixamp, I'd probably just stick to stereo. I don't see it as much of an improvement. Night and day difference between CMSS3D vs DH, THX Trustudio, and the Headzone. (the last three are more similar than CMSS3D).
> That vid reminds me of the old Russian ones I saw that had the DH comparisons. Didn't work for me then, doesn't now.


 
   
  I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. (Sort of like our stances on PC gaming, heh.)
   
  I don't know what it is between us-personal HRTF differences, probably-but for me, the two work roughly equally well for software-mixed games constrained to 7.1 to begin with, just with opposite tonal shifts. (CMSS-3D Headphone emphasizes treble, Dolby Headphone emphasizes bass.)
   
  But when it's getting proper 3D positional audio, and Dolby Headphone is still handicapping itself by downmixing that audio to 7.1 first before applying any HRTF processing, it's no contest to me. DH could win _if it made use of the 3D positional audio information_ in such games, but it doesn't. Still sounds like 5.1/7.1 when it should sound binaural, like _real life_. Quite a missed opportunity for Dolby Labs here, but I do wonder if the HRTF used would even work out if not used to simulate a home theater system specifically.
   
  That's not to say that CMSS-3D Headphone is without its flaws; the hit to sound quality is pretty obvious. But for positioning, it's stellar. Front, rear, high, low, it's all there for me, with enough accuracy that I often call it an aural wallhack and would have reasonable confidence in being able to shoot someone through a wall if given the opportunity.
   
  As for THX TruStudio Surround, it has no sense of distance and less directionality to me. It might impact sound quality a bit less, but positionally, it's utterly inferior to both CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone for me. Doesn't matter if I try it via Titanium HD Entertainment Mode or Recon3D USB; it just sounds constrained and flat.
   
  The end result is that I'm going to be recommending X-Fi cards for PC gaming whenever possible _because_ of CMSS-3D Headphone (and superior DS3D/OAL API support). If push comes to shove, though, you can always turn on Dolby Digital Live and get a Dolby Headphone processor. That's what I do when making my comparisons with the SU-DH1.
   
  Actually...you want to see what PC games were doing in the late 1990s, when the whole 3D gaming craze spread to audio? Check out these videos with Aureal A3D HRTF processing.
   
  Some people insist it still sounds better than anything Creative's done since, even with CMSS-3D Headphone likely borrowing from acquired Aureal tech as much as Sensaura tech. Quite a shame that Creative basically bankrupted and ate up Aureal with legal fees from lawsuits...gaming audio might be different today if they survived, probably for the better.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Some people insist it still sounds better than anything Creative's done since, even with CMSS-3D Headphone likely borrowing from acquired Aureal tech as much as Sensaura tech. Quite a shame that Creative basically bankrupted and ate up Aureal with legal fees from lawsuits...gaming audio might be different today if they survived, probably for the better.


 
  So you are the PC pro and I would like your input too. What can be done to maximize the gaming experience on a $250-$300 budget. MLE has been very helpful though I love gaming 10x more than music, what should I do to accomplish nirvana. Music to me is just something that keeps my mind from racing when I am doing something automatic like mowing the grass or changing my car's oil. I am sure these words are an abomination to audiophiles, so please do tell before I am banned from this site.


----------



## Rebel975

Anyone ever use something like this? http://www.buttkickergear.com/ButtKicker_Gamer2_p/bk-gr.htm
   
  I have one (I don't use their amp though- I have my own), but don't use it much anymore since I got a real subwoofer. It was pretty sweet for gaming with my old headphone rig.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> So you are the PC pro and I would like your input too. What can be done to maximize the gaming experience on a $250-$300 budget. MLE has been very helpful though I love gaming 10x more than music, what should I do to accomplish nirvana. Music to me is just something that keeps my mind from racing when I am doing something automatic like mowing the grass or changing my car's oil. I am sure these words are an abomination to audiophiles, so please do tell before I am banned from this site.


 
   
  My usual gaming sound card recommendations are either this $43 X-Fi Titanium or a $120 X-Fi Titanium HD.
   
  If you're not really into music, then perhaps you don't have to spend so much on audio equipment. The cheaper of the two will likely still sound good enough to you, and you could just get something like an AD700 (competitive) or SR850 (allegedly more balanced with some actual bass presence, but I haven't tried it myself) as your headphone of choice, coupled with a ModMic when they start shipping again...alternatively, if you don't mind spending $160 on a headset, you can treat yourself to the Sennheiser PC360 (haven't heard this one myself, but MLE likes it a lot for a headset).
   
  Quick question: are you looking for something that gives you a competitive advantage (where boomy bass won't distract from the details), or are you looking for something more "fun"/immersive-sounding that might leave you shellshocked from explosions?


----------



## SleepyMellow

Competitive advantage is most important


----------



## I95North

Oh well i'm sending my DT-990 600 ohm back to where it came from. Why? There are several reasons why i'm sending it back but the biggest for me was that  some where in the 8K range just does not float my boat..
   
   It seems it was okay at first while playing music but as i started to game it started to become more and more piercing to my ears. One other thing is that it has tremendous amounts of bass even while 32hz band along with 62hz band on recon 3D eq is turned all the way down.. Games i played only three midnight club very good sound while plaing that and the back ground music steller along with BLOPS and MW3 could not find my MW disc so i did not play that..
   
  Lets just say this can does sound great for music for sure as long as you dont get any music with too much sibilance in it or tissy percusion sounds.. I'd keep the can but for the same reason i never try to game with my HE-500 it does not work for audio cues for ME my OPINION here only!.  
   
      When alot of gun fire and explosions are going on it becomes a choir to pinpoint anything, gun fire, footsteps you name it. With the HE400 all these destractions could be happening and i'd still be able to separate gun shot location/positions while chaos was unfolding not so with the mighty HE-500 nor the 600ohm DT990
   
   I have tried the dss2, dss and recon3d with this can while going out of  each decoder separately then into an old receiver as my amp..
   
  I will say this and its Just my opinion here, if anyone can get use to the cans characteristics the sometimes hot treble higher end and mega bass bottom end but if both where to be rolled off it could be beast  for positioning Maybe?
   
  I think i need the Try the HD650 next but when the price drops yeah not at 400+ thats a bit much!
   
  My sensitive ears and the DT990
  0 was not a good match..


----------



## Naingolann

Wow, that's...uhm, surprising. I love mine for gaming and especially with music.
   
  What you described is what I actually got with my old HD555 when gaming (the messy location/position, not the bass part obviously), which my trusty DT990 fixed with much greater soundstage, clarity and absolutely _non-disturbing_ bass.
   
   
  Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Anyone ever use something like this? http://www.buttkickergear.com/ButtKicker_Gamer2_p/bk-gr.htm
> 
> I have one (I don't use their amp though- I have my own), but don't use it much anymore since I got a real subwoofer. It was pretty sweet for gaming with my old headphone rig.


 
  That's actually interesting. Too bad I either game on the sofa or on my bed. :S


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> That's actually interesting. Too bad I either game on the sofa or on my bed. :S


 
   
   
  There are other larger models (from them and other companies) that can be mounted to bed frames, couches, etc., but they cost more and would require some creativity in how you mount them. Buttkicker does have some that can be put under a leg on your couch/bed. Not sure how powerful it would be, though.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Quick question: are you looking for something that gives you a competitive advantage (where boomy bass won't distract from the details), or are you looking for something more "fun"/immersive-sounding that might leave you shellshocked from explosions?


 
  OK I just ordered the refurbished $43 X-Fi titanium and a used $129 DT990/32, now i believe it is time to look for an amplifier. MLE suggests the Fiio E7, E9, E11 - will these work well with what I purchased?


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> There are other larger models (from them and other companies) that can be mounted to bed frames, couches, etc., but they cost more and would require some creativity in how you mount them. Buttkicker does have some that can be put under a leg on your couch/bed. Not sure how powerful it would be, though.


 
   
  I think that would depend on the couch/bed's size and weight.
  I can't imagine it being good for the frame though.  The frames are not exactly designed to be shaken that often.
  If you have steel frame on the bed it's a different matter though.  Just might still leave a mark on the floor beneath the bedpost because of the vibrations.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Wow, that's...uhm, surprising. I love mine for gaming and especially with music.
> 
> What you described is what I actually got with my old HD555 when gaming (the messy location/position, not the bass part obviously), which my trusty DT990 fixed with much greater soundstage, clarity and absolutely _non-disturbing_ bass.
> 
> ...


 
  Never said they where bad persay just not for ME too hot in the treble region and i did say the cans sound great with music just some music if  it is tissy sounding or kinda sibilant and the can seems to bring that out more and my ears are sensitive it seems to hot treble which these cans are.
   
  Gaming for the fps games that i have tried are no better than my k701 or my  AD700 i don't use either of these can any more since getting my HE-400 but at the moment they are caput with no warranty.
   
  I tried the DT990 out for curiosity only to see if  it would be better than my go to can HE-400 but i found out ALL that i needed to know about the 990.
   
  I still have them until monday when then they will get shipped back unless somehow something changes my mind to keep them. They are not bad just seem to  not be my cup of tea..
   
   
   


   
  That was my eq setting to cut out the bass and my treble setting to not irratate my ears. Btw the bass was still too much lol..
   
  The recon was more customisable than either of the dss or the dss2. If i had the mixamp in which i sold i would have tried that too. Wow with the eq settings like that it reminds me its sounds like the AD700's..


----------



## Makiah S

Not 100% relevant but Mad Lust recommended the Dt 880s to me MONTHS ago I finally have them and I LOVE them for gaming! BGM's have never sounded so nice, and when your playing Metroid... the music is half the experince xD. Plus it makes RPGS more enjoyable since you can kinda zone out and get lost in the music!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> OK I just ordered the refurbished $43 X-Fi titanium and a used $129 DT990/32, now i believe it is time to look for an amplifier. MLE suggests the Fiio E7, E9, E11 - will these work well with what I purchased?


 
   
  It should work fine with any of those amps. I won't say that it _will_ due to lack of personal experience with all the products in question (both headphones and amps), but hearsay here suggests that you won't have issues.
   
  By the way, when you get the sound card, use these drivers. They'll generally work better than the official driver packages.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> There are other larger models (from them and other companies) that can be mounted to bed frames, couches, etc., but they cost more and would require some creativity in how you mount them. Buttkicker does have some that can be put under a leg on your couch/bed. Not sure how powerful it would be, though.


 
  Yeah, doesn't sound like it'd be worth the investment in all honesty...I'll just stick with my headphones, which were already costly per se lol. Cool stuff nonetheless.
   
   
  Quote:


i95north said:


> Never said they where bad persay just not for ME too hot in the treble region and i did say the cans sound great with music just some music if  it is tissy sounding or kinda sibilant and the can seems to bring that out more and my ears are sensitive it seems to hot treble which these cans are.
> 
> Gaming for the fps games that i have tried are no better than my k701 or my  AD700 i don't use either of these can any more since getting my HE-400 but at the moment they are caput with no warranty.
> 
> ...


 

 Of course, everyone has their own taste and I respect your opinion. Just wanted to share my different experience with 'em. 
   
  From what I read, I think that you could give the Q701 a try, although it shouldn't be much different than your AKG701...Besides with the HE-400 you're pretty much set honestly. I've never heard those, but I guess they must sound really good.
   
  The mixamp is pretty much identical to the DSS (first revision), so you're not losing much there.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It should work fine with any of those amps. I won't say that it _will_ due to lack of personal experience with all the products in question (both headphones and amps)
> 
> By the way, when you get the sound card, use these drivers. They'll generally work better than the official driver packages.


 
   Thanks for the drivers link, I am noob to this arena is there another good sub $100 amp you recommend? Thx


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Of course, everyone has their own taste and I respect your opinion. Just wanted to share my different experience with 'em.
> *ok no problem*
> 
> From what I read, I think that you could give the Q701 a try, although it shouldn't be much different than your AKG701...Besides with the HE-400 you're pretty much set honestly. I've never heard those, but I guess they must sound really good.
> ...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ya I haven't read through all the posts to see how many times you've posted that its got a lot of treble.  I just read the 1st page of your impressions and through out the site to find that out.  I still do like the Q701's for gaming.  I don't really think I'll be using them for music.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> Thanks for the drivers link, I am noob to this arena is there another good sub $100 amp you recommend? Thx


 
   
  Sorry, but amps aren't my best field of knowledge, especially those that can't drive electrostatics.
   
  Generally speaking, when it comes to affordable amps, people here usually favor either FiiO or professionally-built Objective2 amps.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ya I haven't read through all the posts to see how many times you've posted that its got a lot of treble.  I just read the 1st page of your impressions and through out the site to find that out.  I still do like the Q701's for gaming.  I don't really think I'll be using them for music.


 
  I use the K701 and AD700 for gaming now that my he 400 is busted and the k701 is usually only used for music but having a choice HE-400 is beter for my ears and positioning when i game... I will use the DT990 for the rest of weekend but i know for sure i'm sending them back because i just got a great deal on some other cans and one of them i cant wait to get it because i will kiss it when it comes lol..


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





i95north said:


> because i will kiss it when it comes lol..


 
  Some serious Phila in your audiophile'n huh there lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> Thanks for the drivers link, I am noob to this arena is there another good sub $100 amp you recommend? Thx


 
  On eBay, they sell the SMSL SD-793II for $60, it comes with S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) digital input a PCM1793 DAC chip and a headphone amplifier.
  You would just run optical from your Titanium sound card to the SMSL SD-793.
  The Titanium can send CMSS-3D surround sound thru the optical output.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> On eBay, they sell the SMSL SD-793II for $60, it comes with S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) digital input a PCM1793 DAC chip and a headphone amplifier.
> You would just run optical from your Titanium sound card to the SMSL SD-793.
> The Titanium can send CMSS-3D surround sound thru the optical output.


 
  Wait what card is this your talking about! I need  A sound card with optical OUt, seeing as I don;t have the braket that came with my Mother Board >.> but I have the flipping Spdif out 2 pins on my mobo :x


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sleepymellow said:


> OK I just ordered the refurbished $43 X-Fi titanium and a used $129 DT990/32, now i believe it is time to look for an amplifier. MLE suggests the Fiio E7, E9, E11 - will these work well with what I purchased?




Please tell me you did not buy the DT990/32 on Amazon that was $129. That one has a dead driver, is messed up, and they don't accept returns. Did you even READ the description? If you did, you've effectively wasted $129, and are gonna have to spend some cash to send it to Beyer to fix it.

edit: It's no longer on Amazon, looks like you DID buy it.

*facepalm*


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Please tell me you did not buy the DT990/32 on Amazon that was $129. That one has a dead driver, is messed up, and they don't accept returns. Did you even READ the description? If you did, you've effectively wasted $129, and are gonna have tpo spend some cash to send it to Beyer to fix it.


 
  *sigh* Amazone has a Returm policy OR you can be a boss and go for some SERIOUS modding on those! but yea buying a broken can... I hope its not broken >.>


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, it wasn't SOLD by Amazon. It was a third party, and they don't accept returns, from what I read in the description.

It WAS broken. The decription mentioned what was wrong with it. I guess he just saw $129, and bought it without reading.

Anyone can put up things for sale on Amazon. The seller put up an honest description, so he won't get penalized for it.

I hope he can cancel, but... who knows?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Uhh, it wasn't SOLD by Amazon. It was a third party, and they don't accept returns, from what I read in the description.
> It WAS broken. The decription mentioned what was wrong with it. I guess he just saw $129, and bought it without reading.
> Anyone can put up things for sale on Amazon. The seller put up an honest description, so he won't get penalized for it.
> I hope he can cancel, but... who knows?


 
  Yea I hope so too >.>
   
  Also Mad I've just disocovered the Byerdynamic Custom 1 that claims to have a setting that allows for dt 880 lvls of bass... what do you think of this can and it's adjustable bass :O... 
   
  I ask because there are some games that I do enjoy with a BASS heavy can because the game and the music for it is SO DARK that it benifits from some SERIOUS bass... just the overwhelming DARK SOUND really adds to how evil the bosses are!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They seem interesting. However, I doubt the soundstage and positioning will be better than the 770s. They're only 16 ohms too, so IF they get paired up with anything over 2ohms in output impedance, they'll sound worse.

I hear the 770/80 is better, and I'm not in LOVE with those.

Still, I haven't heard them, so maybe they're decent.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> Been having this problem for a while and figured I'd ask.  Googled but didn't find anything similar to my situation.
> 
> My setup is DT990 premium 32ohms hooked up to a Mixamp 5.8 via optical cable.  Xbox 360 and PS3 are both set to output DD5.1 sound.  When I turn my Mixamp's bass boost on, the sound during certain explosions and/or many different sound effects playing at the same time (varies per game) causes the sound to loudly crackle and bother my ears.  Is there a fix for this? ot ruling it out, but I wouldn't think it would be the cables since it happens on both 360 and PS3 which each have their own optical cable.   I feel like the bass boost adds a lot but this issue can be unbearable with certain games (Sonic Adventure 2 XBLA as a recent example).
> 
> Thanks.


 
   
  Turning the bass boost on causes the digital signal to clip sometimes.  The mixamp doesn't compensate for the bass boost by lowering the overall EQ, so the levels start red lining.
   
  What you CAN do is turn down the volume digitally via the in-game menu.  This will prevent the mixamp from clipping the signal when bass boost is on.  You will have to turn the mixamp up slightly to compensate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wouldn't that make the Mixamp work harder? In either case, I haven't used that boost button in ages. I called it a loss and moved on.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wouldn't that make the Mixamp work harder? In either case, I haven't used that boost button in ages. I called it a loss and moved on.


 
   
  Slightly.  It's just turning the in-game from 100% down to 85% or whatever.  It just another "o'clock" or two on the mixamp to get the same volume as before.
   
   
  If your trying to drive hungry headphones with _just _the mixamp, you may run into some volume issues.
   
  I use this technique with my Q701 + mixamp 5.8 + M-stage when I want to boost the bass on on games that don't like the mixamps bass boost.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> On eBay, they sell the SMSL SD-793II for $60, it comes with S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) digital input a PCM1793 DAC chip and a headphone amplifier.
> You would just run optical from your Titanium sound card to the SMSL SD-793.
> The Titanium can send CMSS-3D surround sound thru the optical output.


 
  Thanks I just saved it in my watch list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mellow, did you see my post about you possibly buying a messed up DT990? Read back.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Please tell me you did not buy the DT990/32 on Amazon that was $129. That one has a dead driver, is messed up, and they don't accept returns. Did you even READ the description? If you did, you've effectively wasted $129, and are gonna have to spend some cash to send it to Beyer to fix it.
> edit: It's no longer on Amazon, looks like you DID buy it.
> *facepalm*


 
  I did buy it, but for some reason the transaction was cancelled, so I guess it's all good.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mellow, did you see my post about you possibly buying a messed up DT990? Read back.


 
  Yes, but thankfully the transaction was cancelled anyways so I guess I am alright and now it's back to looking for a good deal again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Make sure you read descriptions before buying. If the price is illogically low, question it. The Premium Beyers never go for anything under $175. Most of the time, it will be in the $200 range. Don't expect miracles.


----------



## SleepyMellow

I am not looking at Beyers anymore, $129 was my limit so i will downsize to something cheaper


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Wait what card is this your talking about! I need  A sound card with optical OUt, seeing as I don;t have the braket that came with my Mother Board >.> but I have the flipping Spdif out 2 pins on my mobo :x


 
   
  Optical/Toslink S/PDIF outputs are rather common features on sound cards. Most of them have them built right in, no need for adapters or anything.
   
  With X-Fi cards, if you turn "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" on, you get everything that would normally output over two analog channels through S/PDIF as well. Also, if you'd prefer to use a home theater speaker system, you can also use Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect to output a 5.1 signal.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Nameless, I almost got burned on a pair of cans today, can you tell the ones you think will work best with the X-Fi for a competitive edge in FPS gaming?


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Make sure you read descriptions before buying. If the price is illogically low, question it. The Premium Beyers never go for anything under $175. Most of the time, it will be in the $200 range. Don't expect miracles.


 
  I got an email from the seller stating they were out of stock and had to cancel the transaction, guess i got lucky on that one. Checked the description but did not find where it was listed as damaged. Anyway i read back in this thread and see that Nameless recommends AD700 and SR850, those are both in my price range and do you or nameless recommend an amp for those cans? Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Wait what card is this your talking about! I need  A sound card with optical OUt, seeing as I don;t have the braket that came with my Mother Board >.> but I have the flipping Spdif out 2 pins on my mobo :x


 
  Refurb Creative X-fi Titanium (non-HD) sound card, is $43 and comes with an optical output.
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102043
  The SMSL SD-793, $60, is an external DAC/Headphone amplifier that comes with a better DAC then the Titanium has (guessing).
  And the SD-793 connects to the S/PDIF Toslink optical output on the Titanium.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AD700 doesn't need an amp whatsoever. I dunno about the Samsons.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> AD700 doesn't need an amp whatsoever. I dunno about the Samsons.


 
  I read your write up on the AD700 not having any bass, is there a way to compensate or do they make one with more bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can buy a bass boosting amp and it will make the bass audible. It still has no impact. They're not bassy. They're about as bassless as headphones get. If you want bass, get something else.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> I got an email from the seller stating they were out of stock and had to cancel the transaction, guess i got lucky on that one. Checked the description but did not find where it was listed as damaged. Anyway i read back in this thread and see that Nameless recommends AD700 and SR850, those are both in my price range and do you or nameless recommend an amp for those cans? Thanks


 
  The ATH-AD700 and SR850 are both 32-Ohm, so they can work easily without a headphone amplifier.
  but using a headphone amplifier with a low impedance, like 4-Ohms or less, should get the best quality they can do.
  I never use my ATH-AD700s anymore, the light bass is a turn off.
   
  Right now, I think the Technical Pro HPT990 (Takstar Hi2050), 60-Ohm, are the best value and sound quality for $50.
  and they come with Velvet (or Velour?) ear pads.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Right now, I think the Technical Pro HPT990 (Takstar Hi2050), 60-Ohm, are the best value and sound quality for $50.
> and they come with Velvet (or Velour?) ear pads.


 
  Do you have a link? I see you are from Cali, I miss it in a big way and used to live in Hermosa Beach many years ago. West Coast has the best waves.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Purple, ohm is only one factor in determining whether a headphone is easy or hard to drive. Look at the Planars. They are 35-50ohm, and some require power plants. The Beyers too, while low ohm, need a bit more current than other low ohm headphones.

You can't base whether a headphone is hard or easy to drive based off ohms. The KSC75 is I think 64ohm, and they don't scale with amping. They sound great off anything. I even hooked it up to the Lyr.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> Never said they where bad persay just not for ME too hot in the treble region and i did say the cans sound great with music just some music if  it is tissy sounding or kinda sibilant and the can seems to bring that out more and my ears are sensitive it seems to hot treble which these cans are.
> 
> Gaming for the fps games that i have tried are no better than my k701 or my  AD700 i don't use either of these can any more since getting my HE-400 but at the moment they are caput with no warranty.
> 
> ...




I was under the impression, from the Recon3D's manual, that the EQ settings only work in PC mode. When hooked up to a console, isn't the THX truStudio Pro tab the only one that can have changes that are saved to the Recon3D profile? It may explain why your DT990s sound the same after an EQ adjustment... The THX tab does have a bass slider though.

To everyone reading this that owns a pair of AD700: Do you agree that it literally has "no bass," or would it be more accurate to say the bass is tight but lacking in body and authority? I know how mine sound to me...

Mad,
I believe the other factor for driving headphones is the sensitivity rating, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sensitivity yes. I think there are other factors too though. Not exactly sure what. Perhaps the size of the driver, enclosure, etc.

If you wanna call zero bass, tight, then I guess every bass light headphone in the world has tight bass. The AD700 has the biggest roll off in bass I have ever seen, and they sound like it too.

Let's call it what it is. Its tin can bass. You can hear it, but it has zero body. The K701 is a bass monster next to the AD700, and that's well known to be bass anemic. So if a bass anemic can has a lot more bass presence than the AD700... what do you call it?

Tight? Lean? Anorexic? Yes its tight. There's no bass to lose control of.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of the AD700 sound. It's all about detail and soundstage for the AD700. It's wonderful at that. So when you're looking at a competitive gaming can ONLY, the AD700 really is hard as hell to beat. Assuming you're fine with the loose as hell fit, and the derpy wing headband design, I don't see any reason to buy any other headphone with the intention of using it for hardcore competitive gaming. Not even the K701. The AD700 puts focus right where it matters, the mids and treble. The bass is audible too, so it's not like you'll be missing explosions. You just won't FEEL them...at all.

What the AD700 fails at is everything else. There's no body, no warmth, no soul. It's a very sterile sounding headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, the hell with it. I'm going back to my 600ohm. I'll get an E9K for now, and once I feel like I need more, I'll get a truly powerful amp. This will save me the hassle of selling a non-600ohm DT990 just so I can get a 600ohm. May as well get it now.

The 600ohm (Used - Like New) and E9K (new) will be here this Wednesday (probably Tuesday, the way Amazon loves to please me with early deliveries). In any case, the 32ohm is going back, as I bought the E9K new off Micca-store (through Amazon), so no going back.

This will give me a brief chance to compare all three Premium DT990s, and settle this matter once and for all. I don't feel bad as these are all used 990s, and I lose SOME money when I return them. I feel bad if I return new ones though.

If I feel the 250ohm to be even closer to the 600ohm in refinement than the 32ohm, I'll send the 600ohm and 32ohm back, as the E9K would have an easier time with the 250ohm.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Purple, ohm is only one factor in determining whether a headphone is easy or hard to drive. Look at the Planars. They are 35-50ohm, and some require power plants. The Beyers too, while low ohm, need a bit more current than other low ohm headphones.
> You can't base whether a headphone is hard or easy to drive based off ohms. The KSC75 is I think 64ohm, and they don't scale with amping. They sound great off anything. I even hooked it up to the Lyr.


 
  Your right, just because I own both the ATH-AD700 and SR850 and have used them with several different sources does not mean I have a single clue on what it takes to drive them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Relax with the sarcasm, I wasn't referring to those specific cans. I was referring to you saying 


> The ATH-AD700 and SR850 are* both 32-Ohm, so they can work easily without a headphone amplifier.*






Therefore implying that because they are 32ohm, they are easy to drive, which is only partly true. It does work out that way a lot of the time (and in the case of those two headphones in addition to their sensitivity is TRUE, but not always.) People need to dismiss that notion that low ohm = not needing a lot of power. All that needs to be said is that the AD700 and Samson are easy to drive. Nothing about ohms.

The HE-4 is 38ohm. That is one of the hardest things to drive outside of Electrostats and the HE-6 in terms of what's sold commercially today.

K701 is 60+ohms or so, as is the KSC75, and they are VERY different in terms of power needed.


----------



## JerseyTiger

OK, so after a lot of reading on this site and looking up deals on the Internet I've finally made my purchase. I went with the beyerdynamic DT990 pros. From what I gathered they seemed to be a little more well rounded for gaming, movies, and the type of music I listen to (mostly rock/classic metal). I like that they were described as having good accurate bass without being bass centric, and that the highs were slightly to toned down from the premium. I also liked that I could get them new for $169. I really wanted to try the Q701, but most everything that I read said they were wrong for my needs, unless I just wanted them for competitive gaming, and couldn't find a price under $225 for new and used was only $10-15 less. 

I also went with the Fiio E09k amp to power them, and the Creative Recon3d USB for the surround simulation.

Hopefully they are good and what I was looking for as the package was quite a bit more than I was originally going to spend on the Astro A50 (which I thought I was crazy for considering). Headphones are supposed to come Tuesday and the rest on Wednesday, so I will write a follow up then.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





jerseytiger said:


> I went with the beyerdynamic DT990 pros. From what I gathered they seemed to be a little more well rounded for gaming, movies, and the type of music I listen to (mostly rock/classic metal). I also liked that I could get them new for $169.


 
  OK now where did you get a good deal like that on DT990 Pro?  
   
  Update: Just saw them on Ebay with extd warranty for $175 shipped 
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170831500986?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


----------



## JerseyTiger

sleepymellow said:


> OK now where did you get a good deal like that on DT990 Pro?
> 
> Update: Just saw them on Ebay with extd warranty for $175 shipped
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/170831500986?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649




http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/92807-REG/Beyerdynamic_459038_DT_990_PRO_Studio.html

It says $199 but if you click on show current price, it comes up as $169.50.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
You know I don't really have any investment in people buying AD700. And you know we've had this convo before... "No bass" is an exaggeration. You made a guide for other people to read and put your habitual headphone circulation to good use, and you may not fully realize that young gamers will take you at your word. Literally. I agree that most people should infer that you like almost as much bass as you can get away with cleanly from the breadth of your review comments, so the light presentation of the AD700 may be less of an issue for others.
I'm just going to pass it off as you feel like annoying people today and yesterday. I'm pretty sure Nameless, Purple, and I will all get over it, nothing serious, just a wording choice in the future may prevent sour feelings.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Relax with the sarcasm, I wasn't referring to those specific cans. I was referring to you saying
> Therefore implying that because they are 32ohm, they are easy to drive, which is only partly true. It does work out that way a lot of the time (and in the case of those two headphones in addition to their sensitivity is TRUE, but not always.) People need to dismiss that notion that low ohm = not needing a lot of power. All that needs to be said is that the AD700 and Samson are easy to drive. Nothing about ohms.
> The HE-4 is 38ohm. That is one of the hardest things to drive outside of Electrostats and the HE-6 in terms of what's sold commercially today.
> K701 is 60+ohms or so, as is the KSC75, and they are VERY different in terms of power needed.


 
  For that price range the guy was looking into ($50-$80), these are going to be headphones used with source(s) that have no really amplification, or very basic amplification anyway.
  Chances are the high priced ones you are talking about would not usually be purchased by uninformed neebies anyway.


----------



## SleepyMellow

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad,
> You know I don't really have any investment in people buying AD700. And you know we've had this convo before... "No bass" is an exaggeration. You made a guide for other people to read and put your habitual headphone circulation to good use, and you may not fully realize that young gamers will take you at your word. Literally. I agree that most people should infer that you like almost as much bass as you can get away with cleanly from the breadth of your review comments, so the light presentation of the AD700 may be less of an issue for others.
> I'm just going to pass it off as you feel like annoying people today and yesterday. I'm pretty sure Nameless, Purple, and I will all get over it, nothing serious, just a wording choice in the future may prevent sour feelings.


 
  I should change my name to Clueless, since 80% of the people in here are like me and call themselves noob, neewbie, etc. This is an interesting twist in MLE's review, but just bolsters my decision to now get the AD700 cans. I HATE PURPLE, so they better be good when I get them. Does anybody know how to change the color??


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I was under the impression, from the Recon3D's manual, that the EQ settings only work in PC mode. When hooked up to a console, isn't the THX truStudio Pro tab the only one that can have changes that are saved to the Recon3D profile? It may explain why your DT990s sound the same after an EQ adjustment... *Yup i use the pc mode because its the only way to change settings on the fly. Now if its right or wrong thats another thing but it works. chnages happen instantly, they get outputed thru the heaphones out and you hear the changes instantaneous..*The THX tab does have a bass slider though..*Yeah in the picture its not turned on at all. *





> *also to let you know if you have the recon disconected from your usb port on the computer and then power it back on by hooking usb back to the computer  the slider button slid to either console mode you can not edit any setting last time i checked but i could be wrong i leave it in pc mode because i can adjust everything and it seems to work fine. Oh n yeah never red the manual lol, reading does do wonders i'd imagine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jerseytiger said:


> From what I gathered they seemed to be a little more well rounded for gaming, movies, and the type of music I listen to (mostly rock/classic metal). I like that they were described as having *good accurate bass without being bass centric*, and that the highs were slightly to toned down from the premium. I also liked that I could get them new for $169. I really wanted to try the Q701, but most everything that I read said they were wrong for my needs, unless I just wanted them for competitive gaming, and couldn't find a price under $225 for new and used was only $10-15 less.
> I also went with the Fiio E09k amp to power them, and the Creative Recon3d USB for the surround simulation.
> Hopefully they are good and what I was looking for as the package was quite a bit more than I was originally going to spend on the Astro A50 (which I thought I was crazy for considering). Headphones are supposed to come Tuesday and the rest on Wednesday, so I will write a follow up then.






> The Premium DT990 isn't as strong in that department compared to the 990 Pros. The DT990 Pro however has some pretty strong emphasis in all areas of bass. *The mid bass hits DAMN hard. It was actually a bit too much for me, as I'm quite sensitive to strong mid bass, as I felt like a jack hammer was hitting me directly in the ears*.




:blink:

Sorry, but accurate bass is not in any shape or form close to describing the DT990 Pros. They are VERY bass centric. They just aren't sluggish like the DT770 Pros. 

Not sure you made the right choice if you're looking for accurate bass, and more well-rounded sound. The DT990 Pros are a basshead can first. The DT990 Premiums have a more well rounded bass, though are still on the bassy side. Judging from the DT990/32 and 250 comparisons I've been making, the 32ohm has the least amount of bass (by a smidge) and have the most balanced sound of the two. I'll wait until I get my hands on the 600ohm before I say which has the most well rounded sound signature. Well rounded doesn't necessarily mean the most refined, as I feel the Premium 250ohm is more refined than the 32ohm, but more v-shaped, with less mid presence.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> I should change my name to Clueless, since 80% of the people in here are like me and call themselves noob, neewbie, etc. This is an interesting twist in MLE's review, but just bolsters my decision to now get the AD700 cans. I HATE PURPLE, so they better be good when I get them. Does anybody know how to change the color??


 
  Paint.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry, but accurate bass is not in any shape or form close to describing the DT990 Pros. They are VERY bass centric. They just aren't sluggish like the DT770 Pros.
> Not sure you made the right choice if you're looking for accurate bass, and more well-rounded sound. The DT990 Pros are a basshead can first. The DT990 Premiums have a more well rounded bass, though are still on the bassy side.


 
  Yeah to bad he's on a budget because the 600ohms are dam good at almost everything like you say MLE its a good all rounder..The bass is quite nice and controlled if i had to say so myself along with the mids being nice the sound stage perfect and the highs, as i use the DT990 more are ok it all depens on the material your using  the cans with. Also eqing never hurts if you have to use it.
   
  In movies it beats out my HE-400 but not the HE-500 lol...


----------



## Rebel975

You can just take the grills off and use some spray paint.
   
  http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670295
   
  http://www.cybergamer.com.au/forums/thread/331047/AD700-MicPaintRewire-Mod-Log/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I painted the grills on my AD700. Looked nice in matte black, but I gotta say, I missed the purple. It grew on me. 

Can't wait to get the 990/600 in my hands. I have a feeling in the end, I'm gonna prefer the 250ohm though. Not because they're better, but because they have SOMETHING that I just love. The mids might have a slight recession in direct comparison, but I love their sound.

I'd be completely happy with any DT990 though. They are all awesome to me. h34r:

As for those comments about me annoying or whatever, sorry if I'm being a little too blunt for you guys. I'm not one to sugarcoat anything. I have nothing but absolute respect and adoration for Nameless, and just because I really don't like CMSS3D doesn't mean it wouldn't be a viable option for other people. I just can't PERSONALLY recommend it based on my OWN preferences. My opinion is just that, my own. Just as Nameless doesn't care for the Recon3D's THX Tru Studio, which I somewhat liked, though still not enough to get my full recommendation. Some of you are putting way too much stock in what I say. I have stated I'm no pro (and I have mentioned this on the first post), and I can only give advice on what I personally like/dislike.

 Like I love the DT990. Lots of people won't. The treble is very sparkly, and will bother a lot of people. I don't think the AD700 has any bass worth mentioning. You might think so, good for you. However, based on all the headphones I have tested (even ones not mentioned here that weren't bassy), the AD700 came out as the weakest bass of all headphones I have ever used in my life. You call it tight, I call it, non-existent. You're welcome to disagree. 

Purple mentioned low ohms in relation to a headphone being easy or hard to drive because of it. I mentioned that it's more than just that, and that people shouldn't look at ohm rating and jump to conclusions. He did mention it for two easy to drive headphones, but other people can misconstrue that as being an indicator for a headphone being easy or hard to drive, when it's only part of the equation.

I understand that people are taking my opinions into consideration, but my opinion is just ONE opinion. I *beg* for people to do their homework before taking the plunge on anything I mention on this thread.

Don't know what else there is to say. If you don't like the way I post, you're welcome to ignore me, I'm not the only one who posts here that can help you. I'm not a politician with the most eloquent speech most of the time. If something sucks to me, I'll say it does, and vice-versa. It's just one average consumer's opinion.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Optical/Toslink S/PDIF outputs are rather common features on sound cards. Most of them have them built right in, no need for adapters or anything.
> 
> With X-Fi cards, if you turn "Play Stereo Mix using Digital Output" on, you get everything that would normally output over two analog channels through S/PDIF as well. Also, if you'd prefer to use a home theater speaker system, you can also use Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect to output a 5.1 signal.


 
  nah I just need a card as I only have mobo sound atm


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> nah I just need a card as I only have mobo sound atm


 
   
  Sorry I missed your earlier posts, could you bring me up to speed? You want a dedicated sound card that has optical out--why?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





sleepymellow said:


> I should change my name to Clueless, since 80% of the people in here are like me and call themselves noob, neewbie, etc. This is an interesting twist in MLE's review, but just bolsters my decision to now get the AD700 cans. I HATE PURPLE, so they better be good when I get them. Does anybody know how to change the color??


 

 I'm a bit surprised nobody mentioned the Dark Knight AD700 yet.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/484176/dark-knight-ad700-gaming-mod-lots-of-pics


----------



## NamelessPFG

In the end, I found that the AD700 was pretty much exactly what everyone said it was: huge, comfortable, vast soundstage, really brings out the positional cues in binaural mixes...and a lack of bass presence, especially sub-bass.
   
  Let me put it this way: a typical Stax Lambda-series headphone has more bass presence, and they're considered bright! The bass also stays tight when you EQ it up, if you want more presence (especially in the deep sub-bass); the AD700 seemed to muddy things up a bit when I did that, like the drivers couldn't stay controlled.
   
  That said, if you like the AD700 and don't mind pleather/leather pads, you'd probably love Stax (maybe the Koss ESP/950 too) if you can bring yourself to spend $300+ on headphones. Lambdas are generally AD700s on super-steroids in terms of sound presentation, in my experience.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As for those comments about me annoying or whatever, sorry if I'm being a little too blunt for you guys. I'm not one to sugarcoat anything. I have nothing but absolute respect and adoration for Nameless, and just because I really don't like CMSS3D doesn't mean it wouldn't be a viable option for other people. I just can't PERSONALLY recommend it based on my OWN preferences. My opinion is just that, my own. Just as Nameless doesn't care for the Recon3D's THX Tru Studio, which I somewhat liked, though still not enough to get my full recommendation. Some of you are putting way too much stock in what I say. I have stated I'm no pro (and I have mentioned this on the first post), and I can only give advice on what I personally like/dislike.
> Like I love the DT990. Lots of people won't. The treble is very sparkly, and will bother a lot of people. I don't think the AD700 has any bass worth mentioning. You might think so, good for you. However, based on all the headphones I have tested (even ones not mentioned here that weren't bassy), the AD700 came out as the weakest bass of all headphones I have ever used in my life. You call it tight, I call it, non-existent. You're welcome to disagree.
> Purple mentioned low ohms in relation to a headphone being easy or hard to drive because of it. I mentioned that it's more than just that, and that people shouldn't look at ohm rating and jump to conclusions. He did mention it for two easy to drive headphones, but other people can misconstrue that as being an indicator for a headphone being easy or hard to drive, when it's only part of the equation.
> I understand that people are taking my opinions into consideration, but my opinion is just ONE opinion. I *beg* for people to do their homework before taking the plunge on anything I mention on this thread.
> Don't know what else there is to say. If you don't like the way I post, you're welcome to ignore me, I'm not the only one who posts here that can help you. I'm not a politician with the most eloquent speech most of the time. If something sucks to me, I'll say it does, and vice-versa. It's just one average consumer's opinion.


 
   
  I'm glad we can at least understand each other's viewpoints, even if we don't always agree.
   
  The thing about audio is that it's inherently very subjective, in no small part due to the fact that we all have unique HRTFs (sometimes deviated enough from the norm to make things like CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, or a typical binaural dummy head recording not work as intended), and even our ears have different frequency responses/sensitivities. (I started to freak out a bit when I thought my headphones were imbalanced around 5000 Hz and 35 Hz toward the right driver, but then it dawned on me after trying multiple headphones to the same effect that my left ear just isn't as sensitive to those frequencies as my right ear.) Also, there are different head sizes, different sensitivities on and around the ears, and whatnot that affect how comfortable people find a given headphone.
   
  In other words, we all hear differently. This is why we have such wildly different opinions on the same audio products.
   
  Reviews, impressions, and opinions can help people get an idea of what to expect, but taking it all as divine gospel can very easily lead to disappointment, especially if you don't truly know your own preferences compared to the reviewer's preferences.
   
  In the end, it's your ears that will have to make the judgment call, not someone else's review. You may not know what is truly pleasing to your ears until after you've been through a few headphones (which is where the Head-Fi motto really kicks into your wallet), but eventually you'll find it. And at that point, you'll also know whether someone's opinions are likely to line up with your own due to personal preferences.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What the hell? Amazon has the DT990/600 NEW now for $263 today. I bought them LIKE NEW for $270 (I know, trust me, I KNOW, lol). I should probably buy them new before they jump in price, and return the used ones...sigh. This will have a warranty.

They better not spike up in price by the time I get the ones on Wednesday, as I wanna make sure it's what I want vs the 250ohm. If it is, I'll get them new.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What the hell? Amazon has the DT990/600 NEW now for $263 today. I bought them LIKE NEW for $270 (I know, trust me, I KNOW, lol). I should probably buy them new before they jump in price, and return the used ones...sigh. This will have a warranty.
> They better not spike up in price by the time I get the ones on Wednesday, as I wanna make sure it's what I want vs the 250ohm. If it is, I'll get them new.


 

 I'm still debating if I want to get the DT 990 Pro 250 or the Byerdyanimc Custom One Pro, my needs are purely bass head <3 but I do want some detailand clarity for my DnB [not so much other EDM genres]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd go with the DT990 Pro. You get basshead plus clarity. If the bass hadn't bothered me, I probably would have stayed with those. The price is lovely too.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd go with the DT990 Pro. You get basshead plus clarity. If the bass hadn't bothered me, I probably would have stayed with those. The price is lovely too.


 

 Still don't know why the bass bothers you, you never told me what you meant by wooly <3
   
  Also I like your 3 different avatars today xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mshenay said:


> Still don't know why the bass bothers you, you never told me what you meant by wooly <3
> 
> Also I like your 3 different avatars today xD




Lol, I can't decide which I want to put on. 

Woolly



> marked by boisterous roughness or lack of order or restraint




Basically unrestrained, though maybe woolly is a bit harsh of a word. The DT770 Pro 80 is woolly. The DT990 pro is just thunderous in impact. I mentioned before that it has less than the Pro 900, yet the Pro 900 didn't 'bite' my ears as hard. Tough to explain. I believe it's more of a personal issue than an issue others would have. There were times where even the Q701 had a bite in it's bass that bothered me. The DT990 pro just bit all the time though. It may have been the pair I got. I wouldn't expect it to be that much different from the Premium 250ohm if clamp is all that's different. I can press the DT990 premium 250 up to my head and it wouldn't bother me.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> I'm a bit surprised nobody mentioned the Dark Knight AD700 yet.
> 
> dark knight ad700 – gaming mod




They do indeed look slick, although I wish the guy who did the mod had taken a picture showing less the pads and more the great paint work he did on the plastic housing. Like someone said, it DOES look similar to the stock AD500... though the whole mic housing, better drivers than the AD500, and upgraded cabling in his mod would surely be an overall better headphone.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I can't decide which I want to put on.





> The DT990 pro is just thunderous in impact. I mentioned before that it has less than the Pro 900, yet the Pro 900 didn't 'bite' my ears as hard.


 
  mmm sounds like just the kind of bass I want! The Xb 700 [Soon to be XB1000] is warm, the Dt 880 is detalied with good impact and the Dt 990 BITES <3 sounds awesome saucy!
   
  Also at the Dark Knight Mod... dude should just have built his own cans e.e


----------



## Evshrug

Lol he might've gone on to do so by now. With a driver transplant. It was pretty cool that he went to that effort and completed the project though.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol he might've gone on to do so by now. With a driver transplant. It was pretty cool that he went to that effort and completed the project though.


 
  Ofc, it did look nice!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I *beg* for people to do their homework before taking the plunge on anything I mention on this thread.
> Don't know what else there is to say. If you don't like the way I post, you're welcome to ignore me, I'm not the only one who posts here that can help you. I'm not a politician with the most eloquent speech most of the time. If something sucks to me, I'll say it does, and vice-versa. It's just one average consumer's opinion.


 
  +1 +1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna say, spending more time with the 250ohm and the E17. The sound is CLEEEEEEAN. Loving it. Can't wait for the E9K. I have a feeling I'll probably choose the 250ohm over the 600ohm.

Either way, I rearranged my setup a bit, and PC is in my room now, so no need to move the E9K around. The 600ohm better have some *noticeable *improvement, though fwir, I doubt it.

As for the 32ohm, it definitely isn't as warm as the 250ohm. Like there's a noticeable lower growl in the 250ohm that isn't in the 32ohm. Just a very slight tilt in bass, that gives the sound slightly more body. It's actually pretty noticeable. Enough to say that the 250ohm is definitely better. The 32ohm sounds slightly lean and analytical next to it. But again,. that makes the mids/vocals more forward on the 32ohm.

This is just with some music that isn't even bassy that I can tell. Like Radiohead's Paranoid Android. There's lower end missing on the 32ohm that is there on the 250ohm.

If a song is bassy, that's when the differences slim down to them being very hard to tell apart.


----------



## Fistula

I figure this is where to go for gaming headphone recommendations.


I have read your (Mad Lust Envy) guide, and have narrowed it down to 2 of them


Creative Aurvana Live!
 |
Beyerdynamic dt990


or if another is recommended, i will look into it.


These will be used on PC with a sound card or extra amp if necessary, for often gaming and not-so often music. I would like good sound quality as I've never had 'quality' headphones before, with decent bass, that doesn't overpower to much of the mids, lows, or highs. More fun, Less competitive, and i usually game for long periods of time, so comfort would help with this.


Anything else needed to know, just ask.


Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 is much better than the Creative Aurvana Live. If you can afford it, the Premiums. The DT990 Pros are very bass oriented. The Premiums have great bass, but aren't oriented in it like the Pros.

What's your budget?


----------



## Fistula

My budget would be below $250 total (including amp/sound card) 

Are the dt990 better than the creative in sound quality and comfort?


Thanks.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fistula said:


> My budget would be below $250 total (including amp/sound card)
> Are the dt990 better than the creative in sound quality and comfort?
> Thanks.


 
  As the DT990s are open, you should be able to game for longer periods without your ears getting pounded too much.
  Personally my ear do not like using the CALs for long periods of times, like more then 15 minutes.
  What make an model motherboard do you have?


----------



## Fistula

Gigabyte z77x ud5h


Will the dt990 leak audio enough to bother others In the room?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 alone around over $250, unless you get the Pro model which is very bass oriented.

They leak more in than out, and others in the room will be able to hear what you're listening to. I can't remember if the Pro leaked more. I find the Premiums to not leak out that much for an open headphone.

And yes, they're incredibly comfortable. The CAL is comfy in terms of fitting well, having soft pads, but they are shallow pads which may make your ears crush against them, and they have pleather pads which get hot quickly.

In any case, the CAL doesn't come close to the DT990s.


----------



## Fistula

If they do not require an amp to sound good, then I will be fine with either of them, but if I need an amp for good quality, that may be an issue.


I'd they don't need an amp the pros or premiums would be a fine choice.


----------



## ronswanson

Hi guys, I recently bought the Tritton 720+ and I'm hearing a low hum/buzz sound during low volumes, or even when I have the game sound muted.  I've tried switching to a different usb port on my ps3, and even tried plugging the usb in to my TV, laptop, and my cell phone's USB to wall power adapter.  but none of the changes I've tried affect it.  Also raising or lowering the game volume doesn't affect it either.
   
  the OP mentions that the 720 decoder box does have some white noise, but I guess I didn't expect it to be as noticeable*[size=small] [/size]*during quite scenes.  Is there anyway to at least reduce the humming?


----------



## JerseyTiger

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry, but accurate bass is not in any shape or form close to describing the DT990 Pros. They are VERY bass centric. They just aren't sluggish like the DT770 Pros.
> Not sure you made the right choice if you're looking for accurate bass, and more well-rounded sound. The DT990 Pros are a basshead can first. The DT990 Premiums have a more well rounded bass, though are still on the bassy side. Judging from the DT990/32 and 250 comparisons I've been making, the 32ohm has the least amount of bass (by a smidge) and have the most balanced sound of the two. I'll wait until I get my hands on the 600ohm before I say which has the most well rounded sound signature. Well rounded doesn't necessarily mean the most refined, as I feel the Premium 250ohm is more refined than the 32ohm, but more v-shaped, with less mid presence.


 
   
  Perhaps they may be a little bassier than I had thought, but accurate or controlled bass that I was referring to was that everyone seems to talk about the mid-bass (which I like) and not as much about the sub-base or ambient sound.  Also by well rounded I was referring more to my personal needs and not the general consensus.  They seem like they would work well for gaming, movies, and the type of music that I listen to. Which is mostly metal and rock.  Since it's costing nearly $400 for the set-up I want to be able to use them for everything and not just competitive gaming.  That's what I meant by well rounded. 
   
  Also my personal taste is that they look a lot nicer to me.  I hate the look of the premiums.  I just wish that it had a straight cable instead of the spiral, as I know that will annoy me (or better yet a removable cable).  I'm also hoping that the tighter clamping isn't as glaring as some here make it seem, or that I can at least stretch it out a little.  On the plus side I don't have a big head so maybe it won't be a big deal.
   
  I guess I will find out tomorrow.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





jerseytiger said:


> Also my personal taste is that they look a lot nicer to me.  I hate the look of the premiums.  I just wish that it had a straight cable instead of the spiral, as I know that will annoy me (or better yet a removable cable).


 
  The 990 Premium only has coiled cable? My 880 Premium has a straight.


----------



## JerseyTiger

eric_c said:


> The 990 Premium only has coiled cable? My 880 Premium has a straight.




The 990 pro is coiled. I just read that the 990 premium have straight, which I like a lot more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure he meant the PROS, not the Premiums.

As for the AX720, I believe someone mentioned completely muting the mic to perhaps lower the signal noise. Other than that, yeah, it's gonna be noisy all the time.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> +1 +1


 
  QFT
   
  I enjoy Mad Lust's input I'm usually not steered wrong by the knowledge! Seriously who's taking offense to what your saying :O


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just wanna say, spending more time with the 250ohm and the E17. The sound is CLEEEEEEAN. Loving it. Can't wait for the E9K. I have a feeling I'll probably choose the 250ohm over the 600ohm.
> Either way, I rearranged my setup a bit, and PC is in my room now, so no need to move the E9K around. The 600ohm better have some *noticeable *improvement, though fwir, I doubt it.
> As for the 32ohm, it definitely isn't as warm as the 250ohm. Like there's a noticeable lower growl in the 250ohm that isn't in the 32ohm. Just a very slight tilt in bass, that gives the sound slightly more body. It's actually pretty noticeable. Enough to say that the 250ohm is definitely better. The 32ohm sounds slightly lean and analytical next to it. But again,. that makes the mids/vocals more forward on the 32ohm.
> This is just with some music that isn't even bassy that I can tell. Like Radiohead's Paranoid Android. There's lower end missing on the 32ohm that is there on the 250ohm.
> If a song is bassy, that's when the differences slim down to them being very hard to tell apart.


 
  Thanks for the continuing impressions on the DT 990 line.  I see that the 32 ohms have skyrocketed in "used" price through Amazon Warehouse so I feel good for buying when I did.  The 250 ohm model sounds compelling, but I don't know if I think it would be $80 + amp cost compelling enough to sway me toward returning the 32 ohm model.
   
  Definitely awaiting your thoughts on the 600 ohm model.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> Thanks for the continuing impressions on the DT 990 line.  I see that the 32 ohms have skyrocketed in "used" price through Amazon Warehouse so I feel good for buying when I did.  The 250 ohm model sounds compelling, but I don't know if I think it would be $80 + amp cost compelling enough to sway me toward returning the 32 ohm model.
> 
> Definitely awaiting your thoughts on the 600 ohm model.


 
  Thoughts where already expressed on the 600 ohm some where...
   
  although I got an E11 and a cMoy so I have 2 decent amps to drive teh 250's with my self [and I got the Dt 880 Pros]
   
  Also why do ppl hate on the Dt 990 Pro's looks lol, yea it's not as pretty as the Dt 880 but as long as build quality is just as good <3 I can dig it


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I *beg* for people to do their homework before taking the plunge on anything I mention on this thread.


 
   
  Seriously.  Anyone who's about to throw down hundreds of dollars on a pair of headphones should research the crap out them. 
   
  If I'm about to buy a pair of headphones, I already know them inside and out - having read as much as possible about them before I buy.
   
  Don't impulse buy audio gear


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Don't impulse buy audio gear


 
   
  Unless you're rich. Then buy and give away all the headphones you don't want to people like us.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Don't impulse buy audio gear :tongue_smile:




Hey, HEY! Who are you kidding here!? :angry_face:

Impulse buying... it's an illness. :frown:


----------



## JONvincible

Great thread guys! I've learned a crazy amount just reading the past 30 or so pages (and of course the main post). I wanted to share my rather limited experience with the Astro A40 package and subsequent headphone purchases, specifically for use with gaming.
   
  I ordered the Astro A40 package back in 2009 when it was first gaining steam. There weren't too many other "premium" gaming headsets on the market at the time, and the big YouTubers of the day were starting to rave about the new Astro products. I got them in, and having no hi-fi headphones to compare them to, thought they sounded great. Positional accuracy was great in MW2 (the current CoD at the time), and I could see my scores improving in games. A year later Black Ops came out, and Treyarch nerfed the distance in which you could hear footsteps. Now I had a Mixamp and a headset that basically gave me no competitive advantage, and on top of that had almost no bass. At this point I considered swapping out the Astro headset for something that sounded a bit better.
   
  I had purchased a pair of Sony MDR-7506 headphones for monitoring audio recordings, so I plugged these into the Mixamp and immediately noticed an improvement in sound quality. I had no "head-fi" knowledge at this point, but I immediately noticed the extremely narrow sound stage which made it difficult to locate enemies that were anywhere in my immediate vicinity. I went back to the A40s for the next two years.
   
  Fast forward to last week. My Astro A40s have actually started falling apart. Despite having to replace a few of the cables over the years, the in-line mute switch has actually fallen apart and is being held together by a rubber band. I searched around and read rave reviews for the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80s. Most notably, people talked about the ridiculous amount of bass these things could produce, which was of particular interest to me coming from the near bass-less Astro A40s. I actually found this thread after purchasing the 770s, and I might have opted for the 990s based off of what I've read here. Nevertheless, I'm extremely happy with the thunderous bass the 770s produce. Since, IMO, footsteps sounds aren't nearly as useful in the more recent Call of Duty games as they once were, a purely fun-based headphone like the 770s are very enjoyable to use.
   
  I have tried the Tritton 720+ and Pro+, and not only was I not very impressed with the audio quality, I couldn't get over that inherent "hiss" during quiet or noiseless scenes. The 770s are comfortable, though my ears do touch the inside of the cans as others have noted. It's not a big deal, but it does keep the headphones from "disappearing" when I have them on. The Astro A40s are still the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn, but I've retired them to the overly luxurious travel case Astro included when I bought them. 
   
  I have my Xbox running to my (O.G.) Astro Mixamp, and the headphones are plugged directly into that. I did notice a lack of volume, especially when watching Netflix with an optical out from the PS3. I have to turn the volume to max and the game/voice knob all the way over to "game" in order for the volume to be at an acceptable level. This introduces an audible hum from the Mixamp, but only during passages of silence. I ordered the Fiio E7 (mainly for price reasons) and hooked that up between the 770s and the Mixamp, but it didn't seem to do anything at all. The volume seemed the same as with just the Mixamp, if not lower (if that's possible?). I returned the E7 and have ordered the Fiio E9X E9K, which should arrive from Amazon on Wednesday.
   
  I'm a big newbie when it comes to audiophile terms, so I won't try to describe the sound of my headphones with this setup in any great detail. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread! It's been extremely helpful, so I wanted to give a little back. Cheers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I mentioned, the E7 has basically the same amp as the E5, meaning very little actual power. This is why I tell people to go for at least the E11 if they want more power than the Mixamp provides. The E9 WILL be a huge boost in power however.

What people need to realize, is that (please correct me if you know the math), but to get just a few decibels more, you'd need DOUBLE the power. It's crazy how amping works. Because the E5/E6/E7 is basically the same power as the internal amp on the Mixamp (e5/e6/e7 = 75mw@32ohm, Mixamp is 70mw@32ohm), this is why you're not going to get more volume. The E11 has 200mw@32ohm, which is almost 3x the power of the Mixamp. That should raise volume enough.

You all have to realize that two amps amping a signal doesn't = 2x the power. The second amp's analog input only takes a certain amount of voltage, so you can pretty much have a super amp first and a weak amp next, and you'll only gain the vast majority of the SECOND amp's power, not the first. This is why you need a lot more power than what the Mixamp provides in order to gain a noticeable bump in volume.

For example: FWIR, the E7 at volume 55 (out of 60) is considered line level when amping to another amp (in typical cases, the E9). That means that you get 5 extra volume if you max out the E7 and feed it to another amp. That's almost nothing. I know this isn't what you did, but it gives you a general idea as to what first amps in an audio chain do to a source signal if they have similar power to the E7 (which the Mixamp does). Long story short, don't rely on the first amp to add anything in terms of volume. The 2nd amp is 95% of the amping. Because of that, the E7 in your case, seemed to do nothing to the volume. The only reason we double amp on this thread, is because the first amp has the virtual surround and can't power moderately amp reliant headphones.

Glad the DT770 is working out for you. I know I may a bit hard on it at times, but that's basically because they're all about fun. If that's what you want, the DT770 is really hard to beat, because they offer a very large soundstage for a closed headphone, the BEST positional accuracy I've heard from ANY headphone, and to me are very comfy. Not to mention, they're affordable. Because they need amping, I'd personally go for the DT990 Pro which is just a bit more expensive (like $20), but they improve on a lot of things. However they're open, and may not be as worry free as the DT770 pro 80.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Moved my PC to the bedroom. You can see the 990s next to the TV. 

I did this so I wouldn't have to constantly disconnect the E9K (or other amp) when gaming, and using my PC.


----------



## ruuku

Good lord that back lighting is beautiful... Had to rig a usb powered led stick to the back of my monitor... not quite as pretty/well executed but it does do a pretty good job of reducing eye strain. 
Edit-
AGGGGHHHH my week old AH-26D isn't working properly... getting major channel imbalance out of the RCA inputs. Tested the outs, they're ok. The optical in seems to be working. Is this a higher power telling me to get a dedicated amp? At least I can use the DAC... not totally wasted... but disappointing none the less.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: As expected, it seems my DT990/600 and E9K will be here today, one day early. I work tonight so I will probably be asleep when it is here, but I doubt I'll sleep well today. I expect some impressions will be done today.

Lol, trust me, it's not THAT pretty if you look behind the TV. XD



It's bedroom setup of a single man with low income.... though I can't complain about having a 65" Plasma in the bedroom. 

I have the printer hidden behind the TV, as I only use it to print amazon return slip, lol.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ...
> As for the AX720, I believe someone mentioned completely muting the mic to perhaps lower the signal noise. Other than that, yeah, it's gonna be noisy all the time.


 
   
  yeah, if I enable voice monitoring that just adds a different soft hiss.  But the humming is always there, and even gets louder when I go from the PS3 menu to a game that turns on dolby 5.1.  
   
  I've created a Tritton support ticket to see if they have any other suggestions.  if not, I'm probably going to return these.  since I'm limited to that price range, I may try the new Sony Pulse PS3 headset.  Or maybe even just get a nice set of stereo headphones now, and buy the Astro mixamp later.  I assume the Mixamp has greatly reduced humming compared to the 720+ decoder?
   
  If you guys have any other suggestions in the $150 range, let me know.  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wired Mixamp is almost dead silent. Also, the Recond 3D USB is also silent. The Recon isn't as good as the Dolby Headphone devices though, IMHO.

If I were in your shoes, I'd spend the money for the wired Mixamp + $15 for the KSC75 for NOW until you can afford a full sized headphone.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The wired Mixamp is almost dead silent. Also, the Recond 3D USB is also silent. The Recon isn't as good as the Dolby Headphone devices though, IMHO.
> If I were in your shoes, I'd spend the money for the wired Mixamp + $15 for the KSC75 for NOW until you can afford a full sized headphone.


 
   
  I second this recommendation. The KSC75 are excellent with the mixamp when you're on a budget.


----------



## ronswanson

thanks guys.  strange that Amazon doesn't seem to carry any Astro products now.  It's all used stuff from 3rd party sellers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They never carried Astro products. It's always had Astrogaming as a third party seller, though they no longer have them on there either. Hmm...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E11 has 200mw@32ohm, which is almost 3x the power Because they need amping, I'd personally go for the DT990 Pro which is just a bit more expensive (like $20), but they improve on a lot of things. \


 
  Indeed the E11 is a nice amp, I just got mine in and I like it with my Xb 700s but not as much with the Dt 880, the E11 makes the Dt 880 sound a little less spacious [things sound closer] and that may be because the bass has a little more impact with the E11 over the cMoy. And then there is the bass, for me the cMoy has a much mellower very supportive bass where as the E11 has a little more impact an agression, which is nice for my XB 700s and for Dub Step and Drum n bass, but not as nice for Sound Tracks. Jeremy Soules music does not need an agressive bass line but rather the very detailed and mellow supportive bass it has. The cMoy has very nice detailed impact and again the E11 has more aggressive bass. So E11 will proably be nice on the DT 990 Pro which is going to be playing the more aggressive bass heavy music [or even if it's mellow Dub Step that extra bite in the bass is nice <3]
   
  So I'm like the E11 with my XB 700 Zune combo, and with the Dt 880 and Hifiman the cMoy is a little more enjoyable to me
   
  But both the cMoy and the E11 have enough power [although that 0 1 2 switch is rather annoying xD 0 to 1... makes things warmer, then 1-2 makes the bass warm and impactful which again the cMoy has one bass level which brings a little more warmth to my ears]
   
  Either way Happy to have both! And for Bass the E11 is better, for a little more detail an sparkle the cMoy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9K and DT990/600 are here! I'm so tired.... lol.


----------



## chicolom

The 2013 Mixamp is out, but only if you buy it bundled with the "2013" A40 headset. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hopefully the mixamp will come back standalone too...
   
   
_"The new 2013 edition of the A40 Audio System combines an* acoustically improved A40 Headset* with our *updated MixAmp™ Pro *to bring you the next-gen audio experience. Immerse yourself with exceptionally accurate 7.1 Dolby Surround Sound, multiplatform support, and game to voice balancing. Own your gaming with interchangeable speaker tags and EQ modes to perfectly fit your gaming audio needs. Easily capture all your gaming audio for livestreaming with the new MixAmp™ Pro’s Stream output."_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First test, 600ohm out of the E17.

PC -> USB - E17 - DT990/250 and 600ohm.

Both get plenty loud off the E17. I could see the 600ohm being problematic out of the 3DS and Vita through the E17 though. 

250ohm at 36 volume. 600ohm at 44 volume. Still plenty of headroom.

The 250ohm sounds slightly cleaner (the 600ohm is 300ohm higher than the E17 is made to handle, obviously, and sounds just a little duller, with less dynamics and energy). Again, they both sound almost identical otherwise. I wouldn't kick the DT990/600 out of bed even fed through the E17, at least in terms of PC use, though the 250ohm is definitely on top with this portable amp. Interesting. I haven't heard them through the E9K though. The DT990/600 out of the E17 is even warmer than the 250ohm, and considerably warmer than the 32ohm out of the same.

I must say, Beyerdynamics really did a remarkable job making all three DT990s sounding so close to one another. I haven't tested the 32ohm vs 600ohm yet. That will come later.

*Out of the E9K.*

Both on high gain. The 250ohm is around 10 o' clock on the volume knob, the 600ohm at 11 o' clock. Very near the same amount of power needed out of the E9K anyways. Hmm, interesting. The 250ohm has more body in the bass, and is ever so slightly warmer than the DT990/600 out of the same. To be completely honest, they sound incredibly close to one another, from mids, and treble. I am ACTUALLY preferring the 250ohm, due to the fuller body. Does this mean the DT990/600 needs more juice? Perhaps. HOWEVER, they sounded so similar even off the E17, that I feel I actually prefer the 250ohm either way. The 250ohm sounds absolutely phenomenal off the E9K (haven't given the 600ohm the same head time, we'll see), and is obviously better driven by it than the 600ohm which I have no doubt wants even more power to gain the advantage. From the brief session I just had however, this could be it for me, right here. DT990/250+E9K. Game over. And yes, the E9K does sound even more refined than the E17's amp for the 250ohm. It's so crisp, and the bass is so textured. I am absolutely loving the combo. I think an even warmer amp would probably make them definite end game for me. Though to be honest, it's unnecessary. I'm very happy with what I am hearing right now out of the 250ohm.

edit: The 600ohm sounds fantastic off the E9K, that is a definite. It sounds more balanced than the 250ohm. The subtle difference is that the 250ohm has slightly more body in the bass, and the 600ohm has more forward mids. Zombie-X got it right in saying the 32ohm and 600ohm share more of a similarity in tonal balance. I agree with that because the 32ohm and 600ohm have more mids than the 250ohm, though it's literally a 2% difference. The 32ohm definitely loses out by just a little in refinement over the other two, definitely.

The 250ohm definitely beats both in fun factor though. Just by a hair. The 250ohm and 600ohm sound just ridiculously close to one another. However, the DT990/600 has more of a neutrality to it. I feel that it does have the edge in terms of pure audiophilia, but then I went with the DT990 over the HE400 because it was more fun, while still being very audiophilic.

So far, which is better?

If you want more neutrality, the 600ohm wins. If you want a fuller sound, the 250ohm wins. This is going to be a tough decision, because I'm sure if the DT990/600 got paired up with the NFB5 (when I had it), it may have been a different outcome. The NFB5 is 2x more power than the E9K at 600ohms (NFB5 = 150mw@600ohm, the E9K is 75mw@600ohm). That and the NFB5 has a warm/fuller bodied tone compared to the E9. So I'd say if you were getting a big boy amp, the 600ohm would definitely win. However, with the E9K, the 250ohm is to my preference.

My issue is, keep the 600ohm, and get the beefy amp, or save the money, and keep the 250ohm and e9K? I'm in a predicament.


----------



## Rebel975

Anyone want a free (old style) Mixamp? The only thing wrong with it (and what makes it not sell-able IMO) is that the little plastic flap that covers the spdif port is broken off. That, and it's from like 2009.
   
  I ended up gluing that flap to the optical cable (which I'll send with the unit) so that it can still get a solid foothold in the jack. It's slightly finicky, but once you get the cable seated in the jack it works just fine. As long as you aren't constantly moving things around then it's good. I've used it like this ever since I got it. I broke that flap off a few days after I got it, and was too lazy to get a replacement.
   
  I'd only really want a few bucks to cover the shipping on it. I can post a picture of the spdif flap/cable situation if necessary. Let me know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What Rebel, that is exactly what I did to my pre-2010 Mixamp! Lol. Hot glue. XD

Jesus, I'd get it for my friend, but I think someone on head-fi deserves it more. Especially one of the newbies that are contemplating these purchases now. They could save spending money on the Mixamp with yours, and buy a better headphone.

Hmm, it looks like I'm now leaning towards the 600ohm. I KNOW me. I'm gonna want to get a better amp in the future, and right now, the performance between the 250 and 600ohm is so close on the E9K, we're talking STUPID close to one another. I can keep this 600ohm that I know I'd want later on.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> Anyone want a free (old style) Mixamp? The only thing wrong with it (and what makes it not sell-able IMO) is that the little plastic flap that covers the spdif port is broken off. That, and it's from like 2009.
> 
> I ended up gluing that flap to the optical cable (which I'll send with the unit) so that it can still get a solid foothold in the jack. It's slightly finicky, but once you get the cable seated in the jack it works just fine. As long as you aren't constantly moving things around then it's good. I've used it like this ever since I got it. I broke that flap off a few days after I got it, and was too lazy to get a replacement.
> 
> I'd only really want a few bucks to cover the shipping on it. I can post a picture of the spdif flap/cable situation if necessary. Let me know.


 
  Check your pm.  i'm definitely interested depending on damage.  It would be an upgrade over the DSS2, from everything that I've read.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should give the DSS2 to me, so I can review it and compare. 

Then I'd send it out to someone who needs it, free (minus shipping), as Rebel is doing.  I'd probably send it out to Nameless, who could then send it out to the next person etc. Lol.

Just sayin'... h34r:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG, I realize I'm overthinking and overdoing it. I like the 250ohm more. It's not a maybe, it's a definite. The 600ohm is definitely more refined in terms of being more forward in vocals. But it doesn't have the impact of the 250ohm. I like the impact more, and don't mind the jjust slightly less forward vocals on the 250ohm.

Looks like I'm keeping the 250ohm.

I Am however keeping the 600ohm's pads. Those are absolutely newish compared to the 32 and 250ohms. All three were like new, but it seems the 600ohm wasn't even touched. Those pads are perfect. The 250ohms had a mark on them, and the 32ohm was probably worn a few times. Lol.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Just thought I would throw a comment in here for people with Dolby Headphone devices other than the Astro Mixamp. If you want a way to hook up your Xbox or PS3 for chat communication, you can get an AX180 inline controller on ebay for less than $20 and plug in your headset/mic into the top of it. I just got mine in last night and did some testing with the receiver vs the mixamp, and though both (the Mixamp and the inline controller) both have floor noise, the inline controller gives off slightly less.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well... plugged in the 32ohm DT990 to the E9K. Definitely takes less on the volume knob. I had to set it to low gain to be in the 10 o clock area which is the E9's sweet spot.

Now THIS is interesting.

The DT990/32 sounds FRIGGING AMAZING off the E9K.

10ohm output impedance? Who gives a flying frig! It sounds ABSOLUTELY amazing. The mids are more forward than the 250ohm, AND the bass is slightly more present than the 600ohm.

These really do sound like the 600ohm. Like WOAH, close.

This is a surprise, if I've ever heard one. Now, I'm not going to keep the 32ohm, since it's not TECHNICALLY proper for the E9K, but trust me when I say, that the E9K makes them sounds hauntingly close to the 600ohm. NOW it's definitely impossible to blind choose between the 600 and 32ohm off the E9.

The 250ohm is the one that sounds slightly different due to the slight tilt towards bass than mids.

I mean, I'm not kidding. The 32ohm vs 600ohm off the E9... I honestly can't tell the difference.


----------



## I95North

chicolom said:


> The 2013 Mixamp is out, but only if you buy it bundled with the "2013" A40 headset. :mad:
> 
> Hopefully the mixamp will come back standalone too...
> 
> ...



Hey I'm sure they know better than to release just the mix amp alone right away I hope lol?? I bet right now they sell wayy more mixamp's alone than bundled with their headsets. Hey you never know maybe the 2013 headset is the best headset out there for competitive gaming??


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My issue is, keep the 600ohm, and get the beefy amp, or save the money, and keep the 250ohm and e9K? I'm in a predicament.


 
  You can always let me Demo the 32 Ohm off my cMoy, 
  I'd like to get the Pro 250ohm Dt 990 so :3 the 32 ohm would be a good way for me to confirm my Byer love to <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, it's official, all three headphones sound better on the E9K than the E17. I expected the 32ohm to have loose bass or sharper highs due to the mismatch in output impedance, but I SWEAR, they sound identical to the 600ohm. It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell. I'm gonna have to give it a few days to let my ears adjust, but I can't tell right now. I absolutely can't tell the difference other than the 250ohm.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, it's official, all three headphones sound better on the E9K than the E17. I expected the 32ohm to have loose bass or sharper highs due to the mismatch in output impedance, but I SWEAR, they sound identical to the 600ohm. It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell. I'm gonna have to give it a few days to let my ears adjust, but I can't tell right now. I absolutely can't tell the difference other than the 250ohm.


 
  So you're saying that I (the guy with the DT990 32 ohm) should get the E9K instead of the E11?  I would much rather have a desktop amp than one powered by a battery.  Please advise!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maaaan, it's ridiculous that people blow output impedance out of proportion, but I SWEAR to you, the DT990/32 sounds ridiculous off the E9K. I have NO reservations about recommending it for the 32ohm. If you get it, set it to low gain. It sounds basically perfect to me.

Honestly, the only THING I do notice, is that the 600ohm has the LEAST amount of bass of the three. And the difference is super small.

If I had to give a number to the *quantity*...

Bass presence:

600ohm: 8
32ohm: 8.2
250ohm: 8.4

Mids presence:

600ohm: 7.5
32ohm: 7.4
250ohm: 7.1

I believe they defining factor in difference is going to be soundstage when gaming.

I'll have to give them a number too, which will come later.

All I can say is that unless you're seriously dissecting the sound... you won't be able to truly hear a difference between the 32ohm and 600ohm off the E9K. No way, no how. If you owned both, you'd seriously have to look at the plug to know which one you have, because sound-wise... impossible.

I wouldn't try to steer you guys wrong.

If the 600ohm is truly better than the 32ohm, it's gonna need a special amp to truly show it, because I'm not hearing it here. I can definitely hear a difference off the E17. On the E9K? Nope. All three stepped up with the E9K.


----------



## ruuku

The E9k IS the desktop amp, so i guess your in luck! The E17 will also work as a DAC with the E9k so should you want a DAC/portable amp its a great combination.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> The E9k IS the desktop amp, so i guess your in luck! The E17 will also work as a DAC with the E9k so should you want a DAC/portable amp its a great combination.


 
  Oh, I know that part.  I am just in disbelief because of everything that I've read about the E9 / E9k not being a good match for the 32 ohm 990s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HAH! I just tested the Mixamp 5.8 (in stereo mode) with the 32ohm and 600ohm with music. The 600ohm needs the Mixamp maxed out in volume to get to an appreciable volume level. Zero hiss whatsoever. NOW, the 32ohm at around the same exact music volume level... ALSO has no hiss! The 32ohm needs to only be at around 12-1 on the Mixamp to reach a similar volume level as the 600ohm maxed out. It doesn't start hissing with the 32ohm until just slightly past that.

So I did another test. I connected the Mixamp to the E9K. Guess what? The 600ohm DOES hiss off the Mixamp+E9K. I basically recreated the extra volume that the 32ohm has with the Mixamp that has hiss. The 600ohm has the same exact hiss. It just needed the extra push from the E9K to get the Mixamp's hiss to show.

Keep in mind, this is with the Mixamp. The E9K is absolutely dead silent otherwise. Even maxed out.

I'm mainly testing the difference between the 32ohm and 600ohm because they really are like twins off the E9K, volume level aside. I'm well acquainted with the 250ohm now, and I feel it's the most different. In the end for ME, it's gonna come down to the 250ohm and 600ohm. Ironically, the 32ohm falls right in between them in terms of bass and mids, but I decided on returning it days ago. However, the 32ohm is just amazing. It just needed the right amp. The only thing being that the E9K shouldn't technically be good for the 32ohm compared to the 250/600ohm, yet subjectively being just as good as those two with it anyways...

Again , keep the 600ohm knowing I will get a beefy amp later? Or keep what I have, knowing the 250ohm isn't as well balanced as the other two, but having a more satisfying lower end at the expense of just a hint of the mids? That is the question.

What I have to decide and DO is play with the 600ohm for a few days, and seeing if what it has satisfies me enough to not miss the 250ohm. If I enjoy them as is, I will return the 250ohm. It is technically the best, and I can definitely hear that too. However, technicality isn't always suited to our preference.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What Rebel, that is exactly what I did to my pre-2010 Mixamp! Lol. Hot glue. XD


 
   
   
  I used super glue, I think, but yeah... It broke off like 2 days after I got the thing. I was slightly butthurt, but it still worked, so I just accepted it.
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> Check your pm.  i'm definitely interested depending on damage.  It would be an upgrade over the DSS2, from everything that I've read.


 
   
   
  I am going to see if anyone else who doesn't already have a processing unit wants it. Sorry.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What are you gonna use now that you're giving away the Mixamp?

And yeah, the hot glue made absolutely certain that the optical cable stay in place, no matter what I did.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I used super glue, I think, but yeah... It broke off like 2 days after I got the thing. I was slightly butthurt, but it still worked, so I just accepted it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I understand.  While I'm sure there will be, let me know if there are no takers.  I'd gladly donate my DSS2 to science (or to another user).
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ronswanson

rebel, does your old mixamp do PS3 voice chat like the current ones can?


----------



## JONvincible

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I mentioned, the E7 has basically the same amp as the E5, meaning very little actual power. This is why I tell people to go for at least the E11 if they want more power than the Mixamp provides. The E9 WILL be a huge boost in power however.
> What people need to realize, is that (please correct me if you know the math), but to get just a few decibels more, you'd need DOUBLE the power. It's crazy how amping works. Because the E5/E6/E7 is basically the same power as the internal amp on the Mixamp (e5/e6/e7 = 75mw@32ohm, Mixamp is 70mw@32ohm), this is why you're not going to get more volume. The E11 has 200mw@32ohm, which is almost 3x the power of the Mixamp. That should raise volume enough.
> You all have to realize that two amps amping a signal doesn't = 2x the power. The second amp's analog input only takes a certain amount of voltage, so you can pretty much have a super amp first and a weak amp next, and you'll only gain the vast majority of the SECOND amp's power, not the first. This is why you need a lot more power than what the Mixamp provides in order to gain a noticeable bump in volume.
> For example: FWIR, the E7 at volume 55 (out of 60) is considered line level when amping to another amp (in typical cases, the E9). That means that you get 5 extra volume if you max out the E7 and feed it to another amp. That's almost nothing. I know this isn't what you did, but it gives you a general idea as to what first amps in an audio chain do to a source signal if they have similar power to the E7 (which the Mixamp does). Long story short, don't rely on the first amp to add anything in terms of volume. The 2nd amp is 95% of the amping. Because of that, the E7 in your case, seemed to do nothing to the volume. The only reason we double amp on this thread, is because the first amp has the virtual surround and can't power moderately amp reliant headphones.


 
   
  Very informative, thank you. I suspected as much yesterday when I hooked everything up, but it's great to see the numbers. I'll definitely pay more attention to the power of the amps before making another purchase, though hopefully the E9K will be all I need. I actually went with this combo based off a few searches I did on google, because people had stated the E7 + Mixamp combo worked well for them. I'm looking to upgrade the Astro Mixamp in the future, but I think at this point I'll wait until the newest 2013 revision are up for sale separate from the A40 combo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can answer that. No. PS3 chat began with the 2011 model.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> HAH! I just tested the Mixamp 5.8 (in stereo mode) with the 32ohm and 600ohm with music. The 600ohm needs the Mixamp maxed out in volume to get to an appreciable volume level. Zero hiss whatsoever. NOW, the 32ohm at around the same exact music volume level... ALSO has no hiss! The 32ohm needs to only be at around 12-1 on the Mixamp to reach a similar volume level as the 600ohm maxed out. It doesn't start hissing with the 32ohm until just slightly past that.
> So I did another test. I connected the Mixamp to the E9K. Guess what? The 600ohm DOES hiss off the Mixamp+E9K. I basically recreated the extra volume that the 32ohm has with the Mixamp that has hiss. The 600ohm has the same exact hiss. It just needed the extra push from the E9K to get the Mixamp's hiss to show.
> Keep in mind, this is with the Mixamp. The E9K is absolutely dead silent otherwise. Even maxed out.
> I'm mainly testing the difference between the 32ohm and 600ohm because they really are like twins off the E9K, volume level aside. I'm well acquainted with the 250ohm now, and I feel it's the most different. In the end for ME, it's gonna come down to the 250ohm and 600ohm. Ironically, the 32ohm falls right in between them in terms of bass and mids, but I decided on returning it days ago. However, the 32ohm is just amazing. It just needed the right amp. The only thing being that the E9K shouldn't technically be good for the 32ohm compared to the 250/600ohm, yet subjectively being just as good as those two with it anyways...
> ...


 
   
  I'm not even going to wait until you get to any more testing.  I'm in for the e9k.  It is a powerful enough amp to grow into later if I decide to get some harder to drive cans at a later date, but since it works well with the 32 ohm that I currently own, it is a no brainer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll be very surprised if it disappoints you. I am going to give you my personal guarantee that you will love the 990/32 off the E9K. May not mean much, but that's how much I believe in the pairing off the past few hours I have heard.

Just remember, this has all been for MUSIC. E17+E9K. I haven't gone to testing the E9K with the Mixamp and gaming yet. Not sure what DAC/source you have to pair with the E9K when you're not gaming.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll be very surprised if it disappoints you. I am going to give you my personal guarantee that you will love the 990/32 off the E9K. May not mean much, but that's how much I believe in the pairing off the past few hours I have heard.
> Just remember, this has all been for MUSIC. E17+E9K. I haven't gone to testing the E9K with the Mixamp and gaming yet.


 
   
  Well, the worst case scenario would be that it is a terrible match for gaming and I return it to Amazon.  I'm guessing/hoping that it will be just fine.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What are you gonna use now that you're giving away the Mixamp?
> And yeah, the hot glue made absolutely certain that the optical cable stay in place, no matter what I did.


 
   
  I sent my HE-500's in for a replacement, and it took a full month to get them back. During that time I had to use speakers, and I came to realize that I'm just not a headphone kind of guy.
   
  So anyway, I've sold off my headphone rig (Schiit Lyr + HE-500's) and turned to speakers instead. I recently bought an Emotiva UPA-500 + UMC-1, and built a subwoofer using a TC Sounds Epic 12" driver and a NU3000DSP amp. I've also been preparing some cabinets to build a pair of Eton S7's. In fact, I just ordered the drivers/accessories yesterday. (Note that it defaults to upgraded crossover components - I didn't get those). I'll move up to 5.1/7.1 when I have the money, space, etc.
   
  Even though I've moved away from headphones I think I'll stick around here, as the discussions are good, and I've been here so long already. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
  Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> rebel, does your old mixamp do PS3 voice chat like the current ones can?


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can answer that. No. PS3 chat began with the 2011 model.


 
   
   
  I don't have a PS3, so IDK. I'll take MLE's word for it though.
   
   
  Also, someone named burritoboy9984 messaged me. Looks like I'll be sending the Mixamp to him.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Crazy, rebel. But I understand. If I had the ability to play a speaker setup loudly, I'd probably move to that too. In fact, I tended to use my Pioneer HTS-GS1 (HTiB) before the Mixamp+Ad700 back in the day when I was able to use speakers. I had to resort to using headphones because I was getting noise complaints, and I wanted less cable management. I changed from that HTiB to my Vizio soundbar, though I can't game competitively with it. And I went and put the soundbar and sub away yesterday, as I barely used it anyways (too loud for the apartment), as I tend to almost always use headphones.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Crazy, rebel. But I understand. If I had the ability to play a speaker setup loudly, I'd probably move to that too. In fact, I tended to use my Pioneer HTS-GS1 (HTiB) before the Mixamp+Ad700 back in the day when I was able to use speakers. I had to resort to using headphones because I was getting noise complaints, and I wanted less cable management. I changed from that HTiB to my Vizio soundbar, though I can't game competitively with it. And I went and put the soundbar and sub away yesterday, as I barely used it anyways (too loud for the apartment), as I tend to almost always use headphones.


 
   
  I live in a condo, so volume is a concern of mine as well. I've been keeping the subwoofer turned down as much as I can. I have yet to get a complaint.
   
  I can somewhat pick people out with just the stereo setup I have right now. Of course, left and right placement is very easy, but front to back is challenging. I hope that that will be remedied with a pair of rear speakers.
   
  As far as cables go- I had 3 hanging off of my head when I used the headphone rig, and a fourth if you count the chat cable. With speakers I don't have any. I did some serious modifications to a basic Xbox wireless mic, so now it's super comfortable and stable on my head. The standard mounting system is crap. I can post a picture if anyone is curious.
   
  I may pick up a pair of AD700's at some point and try to paint them at least, but for now I'm totally broke. lol


----------



## Fistula

Okay, I've looked at the Pro and Premium versions of the DT990, and must ask,


Although i know this is based off console, do you think a Asus Xonar DG (with a built in Headphone app that has been said to be half decent) could power the premiums with their 600 Ohms?


If not could you recommend an amp that would power them nicely without destroying wallets? if not, i may have to go with the PRO's, which i am perfectly happy with doing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pros sounds different in which it has quite a bit more bass presence and less mids than the Premiums.

That soundcard wouldn't do the 600ohm justice. The E09K sounds pretty capable with the 600ohm and won't break the bank.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fistula said:


> Okay, I've looked at the Pro and Premium versions of the DT990, and must ask,
> Although i know this is based off console, do you think a Asus Xonar DG (with a built in Headphone app that has been said to be half decent) could power the premiums with their 600 Ohms?
> If not could you recommend an amp that would power them nicely without destroying wallets? if not, i may have to go with the PRO's, which i am perfectly happy with doing.


 
  The Asus Xonar DG are fairly maxed out driving 250-Ohm headphones.
  Better to get 250-Ohm Pros and spend more cash toward a amplifier.


----------



## Makiah S

Wow alot to read, glad your liking all the different 990s Mad <3
   
  Also nice avatar again
   
  Also
   
  Japanese Remastered 24bit 1950's Classical Jazz on the Dt 880 ... have you died yet <3 it's really magical! Those extra couple of 40khrz white noise fragments really liven the Sax up alot! And the Dt 880 REALLY holds a WONDERFUL warmth in that sax [mind you I'm sourcing out of my Pc +FooBar+cMoy BB (Bass on )
   
  Say what you will but it's magical, and I only hope the Hifiman hm 601 won't kill it [but it usually doesn't some times stuff is better off the Hifiman]


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Wow alot to read, glad your liking all the different 990s Mad <3
> 
> Also nice avatar again
> 
> ...


 
  How do the Fiio E11 and the cMoy BB compare to each other?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> How do the Fiio E11 and the cMoy BB compare to each other?


 
  there are slight differeances
   
  The E11 is a little colder and a littler smaller in Sound Stage [I think that is due to the aggressive bass] but there is more bass attack and equal detail
   
  cMoy has the same Bass Presence, the attack is not as good [E11 Bass is NASTY] Mids an highs are a little more forward and sound stage a little bigger
   
  End story Pair the E11 with a EDM can or darker music that will enjoy it's cold highs, and angry bass. An like most Fiio amps it's a little dark in sound sig 
   
  Pair the cMoy with something that is more neutral or with well mastered dynamic music, something that benifits from a little more mids and milder bass
   
  Also I tested both amps with my XB 700s and Dt 880s [the Hifiman was on High and Low gain respectivly when used with Xb 700]
   
  The Dt 880 again did not sound good with the aggressive bass [when paired with music like Jeremy Soules Secrect of Evermore OST [I have 16bit lossless to] which is very heavy paino music simply. And the darker warmer sound made the sound stage smaller to me [cMoy was much better with Piano tunes and Dt 880]
   
  with XB 700 well all my flacs sounded terrible first of all and the E11 made em worse... but I did test some Dub Step Tunes on both cans Earth a Run Red- Digital Mystkiz [all 320 sry] and with the Dt 880 the E11 was only slighty better than the cMoy with bass presence and with the XB 700 the E11 was CLEARY more aggressive and had a little more kick than the cMoy by far
   
  So once again, in terms of simple bass
   
   
  E11 likes BOOM BOOM bass
  cMoy likes WHOOM WHOOM bass <3
   
  So I'm happy I went with the cMoy first then the E11, also (this makes me really happy) My E11 fits perfectly in my pocket with my Zune HD and it's case so YAY the Darker bass heavy amp fits with the Darker Bass heavy DAP [


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just remember, this has all been for MUSIC. E17+E9K. I haven't gone to testing the E9K with the Mixamp and gaming yet. Not sure what DAC/source you have to pair with the E9K when you're not gaming.


 
   
  I was planning on going DAC-less for the time being.  I mostly listen to music on my Macbook Pro with a pair of IEMs (TF10s), I just want a solid solution for use with my videogames and the E9K fits the 'desktop amp' bill, as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you have a spdif out, you could always spend just $26 on the Fiio D3. For your DAC. Trust me, it works. Better than the E7's DAC, and I couldn't tell the difference between it, the NFB5, and E17's DAC.

In fact, now that I'm not using the soundbar, which was my reason for owning the D3, I'm gonna A/B the D3 and E17 with the DT990s.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you have a spdif out, you could always spend just $26 on the Fiio D3. For your DAC. Trust me, it works. Better than the E7's DAC, and I couldn't tell the difference between it, the NFB5, and E17's DAC.


 
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
   
  That would be my gateway to the D3.  It is good to know that I can get ahold of a capable DAC to use with my computer on the cheap.  Not sure if I want to jump on that immediately, but I will definitely keep it in mind if I'm pleased with the performance of the E09K with the DT990 32s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the D3 comes with an optical cable. All you'd need is the 3.5mm spdif adapter, which should cost almost nothing everywhere.

 http://www.amazon.com/Recoton-Fiber-Optic-Toslink-Adapter/dp/B0002MQGRM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1350447880&sr=8-2&keywords=optical+3.5mm+adapter

Though I'd probably just get that monoprice cable anyways, as it's longer and will arrive faster.

I'll keep you posted on the D3 vs E17 dacs.

In fact, since I don't need the D3 anymore, I'll send it to you. Just pay me the shipping and its yours. PM me if you want it.


----------



## ruuku

rebel975 said:


> I live in a condo, so volume is a concern of mine as well. I've been keeping the subwoofer turned down as much as I can. I have yet to get a complaint.
> 
> I can somewhat pick people out with just the stereo setup I have right now. Of course, left and right placement is very easy, but front to back is challenging. I hope that that will be remedied with a pair of rear speakers.
> 
> ...




If you were going to wait then might as well wait until the AD700x comes out... that way you don't have to paint them. Of course i there's probably going to be a flood of used AD700s flooding the classifieds after they're released... might be able pick up a pair of used AD700s for cheap. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998/audio-technica-updates-their-open-headphones-ad-series-ad2000x-ad1000x-ad900x-ad700x-and-ad500x


----------



## Rebel975

Interesting. Thanks. I wonder how the ad700/900x's are for gaming compared to the old non x versions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Willing to bet they're refreshes, and will sound the same. We'll see. In any case, they all used the blasted wing design, so I lost all interest, lol.


----------



## chicolom

AD700x ?!?
   
  Hmm... sexy.... *_subscribed_*


----------



## boomer12

Quick question:  When I get my E7 I'll be double amping with my Mixamp 5.8.  I'm guessing I'll control volume with the E7, but what volume should the Mixamp be set to?


----------



## Eric_C

Crank the MixAmp as loud as you can before it hisses. How loud that'll be depends on how powerful the E7 is, what headphones you have, and how loud you like it.
  Side note: the E7 isn't particularly powerful. Why are you using it with the MixAmp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You basically max the Mixamp volume and control the volume with the second amp. If its clipping, you lower the Mixamp a little.

Edit: Didn't see Eric's post. Beat me to it.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Side note: the E7 isn't particularly powerful. Why are you using it with the MixAmp?


 
   
  Bass boost mostly.  The Mixamp's bass boost causes frequent audio crackling in certain games.  This can be fixed by lowering the in-game volume (at least in games that allow you to do so) but it can cause the game sound to be too low.  Since I frequently voice chat and have to balance the audio pretty heavily in that direction, I'd rather just use the E7 for bass and not have to worry about altering each game's volume settings and possibly having it end up too low.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, ok. If its just for the bass boost, that will work. Otherwise, the E7 isn't gonna help in any other way.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ah, ok. If its just for the bass boost, that will work. Otherwise, the E7 isn't gonna help in any other way.


 
   
  Yeah, I'm happy with the current volume levels.  I just love how the Mixamp's bass boost makes the DT990s sound so fixing that crackle issue is pretty big for me.  Not gaming related, but like you said, the E7's DAC should also be a big improvement over my laptop's stock sound card for music.  
   
  Thanks for the help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Edit: Never mind, I'm an idiot.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E7's amp is gonna struggle with that the same way the Mixamp is.
> Testing the 600ohm with the E17, and it was definitely inferior to both the 32ohm and 250ohm. Its not until I hooked up the E09K where the 600ohm came to be where it needed to be.
> The E17 is quite an improvement over the E7, and it still made the 600ohm sound choked. I just don't understand why people jump straight to the 600ohm without a good amp. O_o


 
  I use 32ohm DT990s...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thus making all my back and forth pointless. Excuse me, I'm running on empty here, and for some reason I thought you had the 600ohm. Seriously. The entire time, it was about 600ohm. Jesus. I feel stupid. I distinctly remember we talking about this a few days ago, yet forgot today. Sigh.

Disregard all that. You should be decent with the E7, though ironically, the 32ohm does scale up to sound almost like the 600ohm (IMHO) with a desktop amp. That makes them harder to drive to its potential than the 250ohm. The 32ohm does get loud a bit faster than the 250ohm though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so the Fiio D3 seems to have this really bad grain on certain songs that isn't there on the E17. I guess I didn't test them enough, and the soundbar didn't pick up such distortions.

When the Fiio D3 is behaving (the vast majority of the time), it sounds very close to the E17, being just SLIGHTLY warmer, and bassier than the E17's DAC (which is more neutral). All three DT990s sound bassy off it. I can definitely tell the E17 is a better DAC, even when the Fiio D3 is behaving.

I also tested the Fiio E17 undocked with the Fiio L7 line out dock. Sounded the same as when it's docked, which is a good thing, in case I return the E09K for something else, though I like the synergy between the E17 and E09K, and love that I don't have to touch the E17. I turn off the E09K, and the E17 turns off. I turn it on, and the same result. If I got another amp (thinking of getting the Asgard, for the .5 output impedance, and more power than the E09K), I'd have to deal with more cables/clutter. I like the E17/E09K's simplicity. We'll see.

I am almost certain that I'm keeping the 250ohm regardless. On my favorite chillstep tracks, the sub bass is actually more audible compared to the 32 and 600ohm (and the bass tickles my ears, where it doesn't do that on the 32/600). I'm still quite surprised at how fantastic the 32ohm is, and how close in SQ it is to the 600ohm. If it wasn't for my need for more bass, the other two are superior in balance. The 250ohm sounds more refined than the 32ohm, but the 32ohm sounds 'better' because it's less v shaped. The 600ohm is both refined and better sounding than the 250oh, if bass isn't the number 1 factor, and the one I'd go with every other time.

Now for some brief gaming. RE6 demo, gogogo.

Before I play, I must say I agree with Tyll at Innerfidelity about the 32ohm. They are meant to be driven by portable sources, but portable sources tend to SUCK. This makes the 32ohm Beyers kind of useless in that the purpose to get them was to use them on not GREAT equipment, and to make them sound as good as they truly are, you need to amp them as much as you would the 250ohm. It doesn't make sense really. This is why unless you absolutely need a part time unamped headphone (which isn't gonna sound anywhere near it's best without a proper setup), it's just better to get the 250ohm version ANYWAYS. They both need amping, the 250ohm sounds cleaner when amped, and it's safe from amps that have high output impedances.

NOW, if you happen to be too late and already own the 32ohm, worry not, they are amazing headphones. Just, you're gonna need to invest some money in them like the other two to make them sound almost nearly as good as the other two, and you do get that possiblity to use them unamped, as they can get loud enough, while the others may not.

Man, there is a clarity in the 600ohm that isn't just quite there on the 250ohm, and I may be willing to sacrifices those few points of bass for that 600ohm refinement. AGH. We'll see.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ok, so the Fiio D3 seems to have this really bad grain on certain songs that isn't there on the E17. I guess I didn't test them enough, and the soundbar didn't pick up such distortions.
> When the Fiio D3 is behaving (the vast majority of the time), it sounds very close to the E17, being just SLIGHTLY warmer, and bassier than the E17's DAC (which is more neutral). All three DT990s sound bassy off it. I can definitely tell the E17 is a better DAC, even when the Fiio D3 is behaving.
> I also tested the Fiio E17 undocked with the Fiio L7 line out dock. Sounded the same as when it's docked, which is a good thing, in case I return the E09K for something else, though I like the synergy between the E17 and E09K, and love that I don't have to touch the E17. I turn off the E09K, and the E17 turns off. I turn it on, and the same result. If I got another amp (thinking of getting the Asgard, for the .5 output impedance, and more power than the E09K), I'd have to deal with more cables/clutter. I like the E17/E09K's simplicity. We'll see.
> I am almost certain that I'm keeping the 250ohm regardless. On my favorite chillstep tracks, the sub bass is actually more audible compared to the 32 and 600ohm (and the bass tickles my ears, where it doesn't do that on the 32/600). I'm still quite surprised at how fantastic the 32ohm is, and how close in SQ it is to the 600ohm. If it wasn't for my need for more bass, the other two are superior in balance. The 250ohm sounds more refined than the 32ohm, but the 32ohm sounds 'better' because it's less v shaped. The 600ohm is both refined and better sounding than the 250oh, if bass isn't the number 1 factor, and the one I'd go with every other time.
> ...


 
   
  Greatly appreciate your write up.  Funny that the 32 ohm model seems to need every bit as much amping as the 250 and like you, I was in disbelief when I read that elsewhere.  The 32 certainly gets to acceptable volume levels (mostly if it is cranked to max) on portable devices like laptops of smartphones, but you just get the sense that while the volume might be there, the sound quality being output isn't quite there.  I'm hoping that a quality amp will really open them up.
   
  As for the comparison to the 250, I just got such a great deal on seemingly 'new' DT 990 32 ohm ($184 from Warehouse Deals) that I dont' know if spending the extra $70-80 to get similar condition, used 250 ohm cans will be worthwhile.  I'd love to have the extra refinement and/or soundstage, but I'm guessing that your trained ear is really parsing great to spectacular sound quality.  We will see how I feel when the E09K arrives tomorrow, but i'm guessing that I will be content enough to not spend the extra scratch on a noticeable, albeit minor improvement.  However, that is the name of the game at this point in the audio world.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SQ difference between the 32ohm and 250ohm out of the E09K is DEFINITELY not worth the extra $70-80. More like $10-$20.

Okay, so I gamed with the 600ohm and 250ohm being fed by the Mixamp->E09K.

Hmm... interesting. The 600ohm sounds every bit as bassy with Dolby Headphone. I guess the bass difference is mainly for stereo. One second I think I'm keeping the 250ohm, the next, my head says the 600ohm.

They both performed exactly the same for gaming. Same soundstage, directionality, etc. I'd test the 32ohm vs the 600ohm, but I already know it's gonna be a wash.

All three are great for Dolby headphone gaming. The end. Not even worth changing scores.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The SQ difference between the 32ohm and 250ohm out of the E09K is DEFINITELY not worth the extra $70-80. More like $10-$20.
> Okay, so I gamed with the 600ohm and 250ohm being fed by the Mixamp->E09K.
> Hmm... interesting. The 600ohm sounds every bit as bassy with Dolby Headphone. I guess the bass difference is mainly for stereo. One second I think I'm keeping the 250ohm, the next, my head says the 600ohm.
> They both performed exactly the same for gaming. Same soundstage, directionality, etc. I'd test the 32ohm vs the 600ohm, but I already know it's gonna be a wash.
> All three are great for Dolby headphone gaming. The end. Not even worth changing scores.


 
   
  MLE, you're the hardest working user on this entire forum.  My excitement for the E09K is at a fever pitch thanks to all your detailed comparisons.  Will definitely report back when I've had some chance to break in all the equipment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I blame it on my self diagnosed OCD. I wouldn't be able to sleep without satisfying my curiosity. It literally drives me bat**** crazy. Sigh...


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I blame it on my self diagnosed OCD. I wouldn't be able to sleep without satisfying my curiosity. It literally drives me bat**** crazy. Sigh...


 
   
  I'd venture a guess that many of us on here struggling to grasp the minutiae also could claim OCD, so I know the feeling.  I'm sure you'll be on to greener pastures soon enough, haha.
   
  As for me, last time I went down this road for full-sized cans was in '04 with the HD555 - which I've used unamped ever since.  I'm really ready to move onto the next level with all this new gear and this thread has been an amazing resource.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I literally can't decide between the 600ohm and 250ohm. It's gonna be a last minute decision, and one I bet I'll probably wanna take back. The 250ohm actually started sounding better when I switches the E09K to low gain. Made the sound just a little more refined for it. Because it made it closer than before, I'm leaning on the 250ohm due to the better bass.

Again... I say one thig, then go back and change my mind, but logically, the 250ohm is the one I think I should get.

Holy cow, they really DID stop selling the Mixamp alone here. The Mixamp sub section has been erased. What a ****** move, Astro.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Holy cow, they really DID stop selling the Mixamp alone here. The Mixamp sub section has been erased. What a ****** move, Astro.


 
   
  That's wild.  Astro certainly realizes that they will move more of their sub-par headsets if they restrict purchases of the Mixamp to bundled sales.  Unfortunately, there aren't too many true audiophile level competitors in the price range.  2nd hand prices will definitely skyrocket.


----------



## I95North

kellte2 said:


> That's wild.  Astro certainly realizes that they will move more of their sub-par headsets if they restrict purchases of the Mixamp to bundled sales.  Unfortunately, there aren't too many true audiophile level competitors in the price range.  2nd hand prices will definitely skyrocket.




To be frank if I was Astro and I'm an idiot!! I'd do the same thing to sell more headsets with the mixamp bundled than seperate. 

You me and the next joe here on hifi that knows better would never buy their sets bundled why?? 

Because we here for the most part know we could best their headsets by going after market and not buying a bundle headset that we dont think is up to par!! I bet it takes a long while before they break that bundled headset apart to sell the mix amps seperate..

Oh well so I wonder who's first on here to buy the bundled package to test that mixamp out??

I just want to peak inside to see what's new under the hood and of course to see if it better than everything that's available and that's out now!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a sound business practice, but it sucks for knowledgeable consumers like us.

I has someone wanting to buy my 5.8. I would, if I could score the newest Mixamp. I don't need wireless.

Now the only true alternative is the AX720, but you get the hiss...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





i95north said:


> To be frank if I was Astro and I'm an idiot!! I'd do the same thing to sell more headsets with the mixamp bundled than seperate.
> You me and the next joe here on hifi that knows better would never buy their sets bundled why??
> Because we here for the most part know we could best their headsets by going after market and not buying a bundle headset that we dont think is up to par!! I bet it takes a long while before they break that bundled headset apart to sell the mix amps seperate..
> Oh well so I wonder who's first on here to buy the bundled package to test that mixamp out??
> I just want to peak inside to see what's new under the hood and of course to see if it better than everything that's available and that's out now!!


 
   
  I already purchased one a couple of weeks ago and probably about 20-30 pages back. I haven't used an old one to compare to yet. However since I purchased this to return it anyways, Rebel is very kindly sending me his old Mixamp, and I'll see how they stack up SQ wise.
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's a sound business practice, but it sucks for knowledgeable consumers like us.
> I has someone wanting to buy my 5.8. I would, if I could score the newest Mixamp. I don't need wireless.
> Now the only true alternative is the AX720, but you get the hiss...


 
   
  Or a receiver with Dolby Headphone... I know it is like comparing apples to oranges as far as portability is concerned, but if this is a stationary system anyways, either will suffice.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I blame it on my self diagnosed OCD. I wouldn't be able to sleep without satisfying my curiosity. It literally drives me bat**** crazy. Sigh...


 

 That would be most of us, I spent a few horus last night comparing 16bit and 24btit flacs on my dt 880s, there was a differeance
   
  In addition I dropped my cMoy from 10inches today and well it's sounding horrible after playing 10mins of music and that didn't start until a little while after I dropped it... I'm hoping it's just the batteries getting DEAD, as I know the Hifiman Sounds like Crap when it's about to die... I pray the cMoy is only needing a charge
   
  in addition the Hifiman Hm 601 Line out and Headphone power mt Dt 880's almost as good as the cMoy :x ofc with the cMoy the mids sound a little better, the bass kicks a wee bit more, but not bad
   
  I just hope my cMoy only needs a charge q.q


----------



## I95North

burritoboy9984 said:


> I already purchased one a couple of weeks ago and probably about 20-30 pages back. I haven't used an old one to compare to yet. However since I purchased this to return it anyways, Rebel is very kindly sending me his old Mixamp, and I'll see how they stack up SQ wise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Great thats just stellar so what can you change on the new mix amp just eq parameters or is there alot more features and functions to manipulate the surround sound??


----------



## Fistula

Okay,

I had decided on the E90k but i needed the connectors for it, as they did not use the connectors i have, during my research of sound cards i found one with the connectors, but it has a built-in headphone amp, which is supposedly using the same chip as an E9.

Would getting the E90k still be a better option for sound quality/improvement on the 250 OHMS or 600 OHMS?

if so, i gotta look for more sound cards with the available connectors. 





Thanks.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I blame it on my self diagnosed OCD. I wouldn't be able to sleep without satisfying my curiosity. It literally drives me bat**** crazy. Sigh...


 
   
  I know the feeling.
   
  It's what drove me to buy an old Sound Blaster AWE32 (*complete in box!*) for my retrogaming computer build, because my AWE64 Gold doesn't have the ASP/CSP that TFX uses for QSound effects. But upon closer inspection, it may not have the genuine Yamaha OPL3 FM synthesis chip that most cards with its model number do...damn Creative and their constant revisioning of what are supposed to be same-model products!
   
  It's also what drove me to buy the Recon3D USB in the first place (which nobody wants to buy from me now), and what drove me to buy Stax, and...argh, this is terrible for our wallets. But if we're willing to pay the price for knowledge that can't be had any other way...and in the case of audio equipment, there is no other way than to hear it with your own ears!


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I literally can't decide between the 600ohm and 250ohm. It's gonna be a last minute decision, and one I bet I'll probably wanna take back. The 250ohm actually started sounding better when I switches the E09K to low gain. Made the sound just a little more refined for it. Because it made it closer than before, I'm leaning on the 250ohm due to the better bass.
> Again... I say one thig, then go back and change my mind, but logically, the 250ohm is the one I think I should get.
> Holy cow, they really DID stop selling the Mixamp alone here. The Mixamp sub section has been erased. What a ****** move, Astro.


 
  Keep the 600ohm and become my Beyer brother. *wink wink*


----------



## ronswanson

Guys, I emailed Astro and asked them when they would start selling the mixamp as a stand alone product on Amazon, and they replied that they would start selling it again on December 1st. I'm not sure if that date also applies to their website though, since I only inquired about Amazon.


----------



## boomer12

edit - nvm, got it


----------



## Senhusky

I figured I'd post here since I'm not entirely sure where else it would go. I'm in the market for closed-back headphones, and probably their second main use behind listening to music will be gaming. I'm leaning heavily toward the HD380 pros, but I wanted to ask if anyone here had opinions on using those for gaming? I also wonder how they would sound with a Dolby processor of some kind, if it is really necessary for good gaming, and what suggestions would be for those. I note that the mixamp is no longer being sold separately. Do you think it is the best option for headphone gaming, and would it be worth waiting for it to come out again, or is there a better option out there?
   
  Any suggestions are appreciated, thanks


----------



## JONvincible

My Fiio E09K came in today. I have my OG Astro Mixamp at max volume running to the aux-in of the E09K and it sounds fantastic (no clipping from the Mixamp). Low gain seems to be more than enough for my DT 770 80s. Again, I'm very green to the audiophile terms, but I can definitely tell an improvement in the clarity of the bass. With just the Mixamp, it kinda muddied-up the rest of the sound. It's very distinct now with the Fiio amplifier powering it. I guess I'm a bass head, because I still like to EQ my music to accentuate the lows and highs, even with these headphones.
   
  The E09K is a very nice product. The finish is outstanding, and I like how it's just slightly bigger than the Astro Mixamp so that they stack nicely. I put velcro on the bottom of the Mixamp and the top of the Fiio amp so that they stay together. It looks awesome, .
   
  I would really like to upgrade to the 2013 Astro Mixamp if they do indeed start selling them separately. I only have the first run of the Astro A40s and Mixamp to compare to, but I went to Best Buy last night and saw the Astro display setup where you can demo the A40s and Mixamp. I'm not sure when it happened, but the build quality on the Astro A40s has definitely taken a hit. The plastic they use seems to be of a lesser quality than the headset I bought in 2009. This wouldn't normally concern me since I won't be using that headset, but I do wonder if the quality of the Mixamp has gone down as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm very happy it's working out for you. So you're eq-ing even now? I'd say to check the Pro 900s as your next headphone, but they definitely don't like to be paired up with the E09K. They are low ohm and sound super harsh off the E9. But I guess for gaming, you'd only need the Mixamp. DAT BASS. Though the DT770 Pro excels in sub bass, and doesn't have a lot of mid bass. The Pro 900 is all midbass, and not a lot of sub bass.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey Mad,
Been offline for a while. How goes your studies of the different Ohm versions of the Beyer DT990? I noticed you got the E9ok desktop amp... Liking that one? What was the difference between the headphone and mini-headphone port again, and is it still present on the new version? I still haven't received my new tube amp yet, but it should be coming soon, and everything I've read about the engaging sound and expansive soundstage sounds like a perfect match for gaming. I had briefly mentioned this before, but maybe you would be curious to test it in your setup since you had to sell the NFB-5 (sp). Once I get to play with it a good bit first  I am curious if it scales differently between your three Ohm versions of the DT990, so I'd like to mail it to you before you have to return some of the headphones.

Nameless,
OMG your post is full of so many marketing names for features! I agree on blaming Creative for poor naming and over-marketing their products... to someone unversed in their phased-out outdated features, your first paragraph is borderline unreadable. And then in each new model, they think up new names for stuff! Who's gonna remember scout mode?

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your trouble finding a Recon3D buyer. Perhaps you'll have a better shot as it sinks into gamer's minds that the Mixamp is going to be unavailable new, for a good while. I pointed a few people to your head-fi username to PM you about buying it from you. Maybe Creative will invest in a firmware upgrade and make a marketing push to take advantage of Astro's absence? A funny thing I noticed: people seem to think that the Recon3D doesn't offer chat connectivity. Dunno how that got started, but I saw a few people in this thread post that misinformation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sending the 32ohm back probably tomorrow, and either the 250/600ohm next week. I updated the first post with the differences, though I was a bit more detailed in the last few pages. You may wanna read up the last 5 pages or so, not sure where I started.

The 600ohm is definitely the most refined, but not as bassy (very slightly less bass). The 250ohm has the most bass, and least mids. The 32ohm sounds like the 600ohm, with less refinement, but very, VERY close to the other two, assuming you amp them with as much power as you'd amp the 250ohm. The 32ohm LOVED the E09K.

All three sounded fantastic off the E09K, and all three were within a hair of each other in sound and performance. If you analyze, yes there are slight differences, but to the vast majority, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Its that close, especially on how the 32ohm sounds like the 600ohm. The 250ohm is more refined than the 32ohm, but it has a stronger bass than both, which is noticeable, though very minor.

As far as the E09K, there is only one headphone jack. The volume knob is dead silent when adjusting volume, which wasn't the case on the E9. The E9's small headphone jack had a very high output impedance which sounded noticeably worse than the big jack. They did it to make IEMs have enough volume to play with, but it was detrimental to sound quality. Long story short, don't ever use the small jack on the E9.


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks MLE,
I just finished reading the 6 pages of new posts since I last visited, and I actually feel kinda guilty asking you to reiterate your points on the DT990s after reading the fine job you did on pulling apart the hairs between the models. I caught myself when I read the bass/mid-high balance scoring numbers thinking "Hmm, sounds like the 600 Ohm is the one for me." I'm also confident that the tube amp will be happiest powering the higher-ohm headphones, though honestly I'd rather have somebody measure it's stats than just believe theoretical stats. But, I'm completely happy with my AKGs, living a dream that had started years ago!

The wait for my hand-made amp is making me froth at the mouth... I'm expecting a new frontier to open with my first specialized headphone amp, and I didn't start small either, but AAAAGH GET HERE! Lol, I KNOW you get me 


Oooooooooh yes! Sorry, took me a while to remember what I was going to say, lol:
Re: low Ohm amping.
Your findings about the 32 Ohm scaling, and Tyll's analysis, match up with everything I've read since I started posting on Head-Fi. Ignoring headphone sensitivity for a minute, low Ohm models do reach acceptable volumes before high Ohm models (because of lower voltage/gain requirements), but on the whole, the low ohm models need just as much current as the high-ohm ones to get that "Dynamic, lively, full presentation" sound that comes from proper amping. A few Head-Fi'ers actually say low-ohm models are MORE difficult to drive, because the amp ideally would supply lots of current without high voltage, and there are the output ohm-matching challenges.
Seems logical that, for a full-sized headphone too cumbersome to wear on a bus or even airplane, you might as well tailor your home/office reference setup to a powerful desktop amp, refined high-ohm headphone (easy to drive to full potential as long as you have enough voltage), targeted to be driven in the "sweet spot" of the amp's output.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its really negligible, the differences, but yeah, the 600ohm is the best, assuming your amp is capable. I kinda like the hint of warmth the 250ohm has over the other two though.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> OMG your post is full of so many marketing names for features! I agree on blaming Creative for poor naming and over-marketing their products... to someone unversed in their phased-out outdated features, your first paragraph is borderline unreadable. And then in each new model, they think up new names for stuff! Who's gonna remember scout mode?
> Also, I'm sorry to hear about your trouble finding a Recon3D buyer. Perhaps you'll have a better shot as it sinks into gamer's minds that the Mixamp is going to be unavailable new, for a good while. I pointed a few people to your head-fi username to PM you about buying it from you. Maybe Creative will invest in a firmware upgrade and make a marketing push to take advantage of Astro's absence? A funny thing I noticed: people seem to think that the Recon3D doesn't offer chat connectivity. Dunno how that got started, but I saw a few people in this thread post that misinformation.


 
   
  Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who _don't_ know what the heck you're talking about.
   
  As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.
   
  I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)


----------



## Evshrug

Splitting hairs, maybe, but I do love a warm brunette...


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who _don't_ know what the heck you're talking about.
> 
> As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.
> 
> I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)




So many options, so little time... Well, in my case, too much time really, but I'm trying to use it for bettering my career. Seems like same old Creative sound card story... 2 steps forward, 3 steps backwards, one step sideways, still a clumsy dancer.

Oh, you may as well point out how the Recon3D has a low noise floor too. Does the Tritton processor that comes with the AX720 use Dolby Headphone 2?


----------



## genclaymore

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Yeah, my mind's kind of numb to all the marketing buzzwords these days. OPL2/3 FM synthesis, "wavetable" MIDI, QSound, A3D, EAX, THX, it's all practically second-nature to me now, which only makes it jarring when you run into people who _don't_ know what the heck you're talking about.
> 
> As for why genuine OPL3-equipped sound cards are sought after more? This thread might clue you in a bit. Long story short, later Creative cards switched to an emulated OPL3 implementation that sounds a bit off from the real deal (mostly due to harmonics in what are supposed to be pure sine waves), and this really irks the enthusiasts.
> 
> I don't know how the notion of the Recon3D USB not supporting chat mixing got started; it's one of the notable advantages it has over most non-Mixamp surround processors. Only thing is, I don't need chat mixing with my consoles, so it's a moot advantage over the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1. (Well, maybe I'll need it if I start getting back into Steel Battalion: Line of Contact...yes, people still play that with the help of Xlink Kai.)


 

 You could keep the Recon3D usb as a backup, but maybe you get lucky on ebay. I know some times I would have to put stuff on ebay when they dont sell here.


----------



## boomer12

Been playing around with the E7 all day.  It's a mixed bag.  
   
  On one hand, I really don't feel like the bass boost adds much when paired with a Mixamp.  As a matter of fact, I can safely say that the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost (clipping aside) is actually stronger than the E7's level 3.  The E7 makes the bass a fair bit punchier but fails to make the overall sound fuller like the Mixamp's bass boost.  Explosions and gunfire on the E7's bass boost aren't giving me the boom I usually get from the Mixamp's.  It's pretty hilarious to turn the Mixamp's bass boost on while running level 3 on the E7 though, lol.
   
  On the other hand, the E7's DAC is a ridiculous improvement over my laptop's sound card. Like, major.  There's a huge increase in the clarity of what I'm listening to...I can compare it from going to SD to HD.  Maybe not as dramatic of a leap but the same idea. Been running it on bass boost levels 2 and 3 with no noticed distortion or drowning out of other sounds.  idk, I like it.
   
  I'm probably going to send the E7 back to Amazon and pick up an E17.  The E17's further levels of bass boost should do better for gaming (thoughts?) and I've heard it's an improved DAC over the E7 - something I really appreciate now.  Been an interesting experiment regardless.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> I'm probably going to send the E7 back to Amazon and pick up an E17.  The E17's further levels of bass boost should do better for gaming (thoughts?) and I've heard it's an improved DAC over the E7 - something I really appreciate now.  Been an interesting experiment regardless.


 
   
  Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs. 
   
  Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.


----------



## boomer12

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs.
> 
> Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.


 
  It's tricky to describe.  The E7 boosts specific things (the bass beats in Radical Highway's theme from Sonic Adventure 2 became punchier) but the M4A1 from Modern Warfare 3 (one of the bassier weapons in the game) sounded like a peashooter.  When I engage the Mixamp's bass boost, that gun sounds like a thumping death machine.  I'm hoping the E17 is at least somewhat of an improvement.  But at least one positive thing I can say about the E7 for gaming was that there was no audio clipping, even with bass boost on level 3.  That was my main problem with the Mixamp and if the E17 follows suit, I'll be happy.  Thanks for the input.
   
  edit - the Mixamp 5.8's instruction manual describes the bass boost as raising low-end frequencies and simulating a subwoofer effect.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Yeah, as I was reading your post I was about to suggest the same thing. It's probably worth your while researching what frequencies the E7 vs E17 boost, though--I'm just guessing, but since the MixAmp's bass boost makes the sound "fuller", I would suspect it boosts a few of the "low mids" in addition to the lower frequencies, whereas the E7 boosts only the "low" freqs.
> 
> Above distinctions between "low" and "low mid" are relative, though.


 
   
  In my experience the mixamp's boost is one that leans towards affecting the low mids.  This may be a sloppier bass boost then some tighter ones that boost more specific lows with stronger punch/slam, but a broader boomier bass boost does sometimes give off a home-theatery bass effect.  Or at least it can make the overall sound fuller at the expense of a bit looser sounding low end.  The bass boost on the DSS is tighter and affects fewer frequencies with stronger slam, but doesn't fill out the sound much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17's bass boost is a huge improvement over the E7's IMHO, but its a tight boosting, and not a broad range boost. Not sure what the Mixamp's boost is doing. I actually do like the effect it has, when it doesn't distort. Too bad it does, so I leave it off.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Seems logical that, for a full-sized headphone too cumbersome to wear on a bus or even airplane, you might as well tailor your home/office reference setup to a powerful desktop amp, refined high-ohm headphone (easy to drive to full potential as long as you have enough voltage), targeted to be driven in the "sweet spot" of the amp's output.



 Very very insightful now that's using your head. Great Logic!! You would think more would do the same but it seems to defy logic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh, I know what I'm going with, with one caveat.... I have to go back to a good amp/dac just so I can stop kidding myself.

I'm gonna keep the DT990/600, and going to buy either the Audio-GD Compass 2, or Audio-GD SA-31 and an ODAC.

I prefer the Compass 2 as it's basically the NFB-5 with a line in, and improved amp, DAC. The SA-31 is an end game amp for me (though so is the Compass 2 to a lesser extent), but it costs as much as the compass 2, doesn't have a DAC, and uses buttons instead of that lovely volume knob.

The SA-31 can power basically anything (has 9.33x the power of the E9K at 600ohms, while the Compass-2 has 2.6x the power of the E9K at 600ohm headphones), and both have a LOT more for lower ohms, as well has having a very low output impedance.

I may be selling the E17 soon, so pm me if interested. If I get the Compass 2, the E17 will be useless to me, and if I get the SA-31, I may want the ODAC.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure what the Mixamp's boost is doing.
> 
> I actually do like the effect it has, when it doesn't distort. Too bad it does, so I leave it off.


 
   
  Like I mentioned before, this can usually be fixed...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, well, I only liked it for bass neutral cans like the PC360, Q701, HD598.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> In my experience the mixamp's boost is one that leans towards affecting the low mids.  This may be a sloppier bass boost then some tighter ones that boost more specific lows with stronger punch/slam, but a broader boomier bass boost does sometimes give off a home-theatery bass effect.  Or at least it can make the overall sound fuller at the expense of a bit looser sounding low end.  The bass boost on the DSS is tighter and affects fewer frequencies with stronger slam, but doesn't fill out the sound much.


 
   
  To this end, the DSS2 has several different levels of bass boost (to go along with combinations of treble/mid boosts).  It worked really well on the HD555, cans that desperately needed that low end help.  Haven't played with it too much on the DT 990 though.  The "flat" setting is all you need with these lively cans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That will definitely be end game for me.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That will definitely be end game for me.


 
   
  I don't believe you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trust me, for the power it has... there is absolutely no reason to feel like I need an upgrade. This is the most expensive Audio piece I have decided to go with. I trust Audio-GD's stuff. It was between this and the Compass-2, but I felt that this would definitely not make me wanna upgrade, while the Compass-2 was more for tweakers.

Gonna have to pair it up with the ODAC to keep my sanity. Once it's all set, I'll sell the E17.


----------



## NamelessPFG

That's a $500 DAC/amp there...and to think that $500 is barely enough for a decent electrostatic amp (SRM-T1 might be doable, SRM-1/Mk2 Pro is more likely with that budget), no DAC included.
   
  Head-Fi can really skew one's perceptions on prices for audio gear...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's actually an amp only (SA-31). The Compass 2 is indeed a DAC/AMP though.

You think the SA-31 can power Stax? Probably not. Lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That will definitely be end game for me.


 
   
   
  Sure it will.  I believe you...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Sure it will.  I believe you...


 
   
  Oh it definitely will be. He'll just end up starting a new save shortly after.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Trust me, for the power it has... there is absolutely no reason to feel like I need an upgrade. This is the most expensive Audio piece I have decided to go with. I trust Audio-GD's stuff. It was between this and the Compass-2, but I felt that this would definitely not make me wanna upgrade, while the Compass-2 was more for tweakers.
> Gonna have to pair it up with the ODAC to keep my sanity. Once it's all set, I'll sell the E17.




Hurr gu Bah?! Ordered? Isn't it a $500 amp? Lol I hope it is amazing for you. Poor foster E90K and E17, heh. I remember you thought you might need the portable DAC of the E17, is that no longer the case?


----------



## chicolom

I like how FiiO has named the E9 the "Qogir".  It's so easy to pronounce!
   
_"The FiiO QOGIR (E9K) desktop headphone amplifier offers truly stunning audio performance..."_


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE,
  I see potential improvements in the DAC section!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: next post


----------



## Evshrug

The FiiO E19 (Everest) is going to be a portable DAC/amp with about the same power as the E90K (and E9). Sounds interesting. I wonder if that means the E12 will also be about as powerful as the E90k...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What can be improved upon from the ODAC which is said to sound the same as the Benchmark DAC 1? That's a helluva claim. That and I honestly couldn't tell between the E17, NFB 5 DACs. They sounded the exact same to me.



			
				evshrug said:
			
		

> I remember you thought you might need the portable DAC of the E17, is that no longer the case?




I needed the portable amp because I was moving from my bedroom to my PC setup in the living. I no longer need that as I moved my PC setup to my room. Everything will be connected directly to the SA-31. It has a lot of analog inputs.

1. ODAC (PC)
2. Mixamp (game systems)
3. 3DS/Vita (have to buy a long 3.5 to rca cable, so I can play from my bed)

I'm pretty covered.

I'll probably keep the E17 for now while I recuperate some of this cost, then change to the ODAC.

$631.40 after shipping and remote for the SA-31.

OUCH. My second D7000 was about $610. Yup. The SA.31 has hurt my wallet more than anything. Good thing Paypal has Bill Me Later. h34r:


----------



## Evshrug

You're like the mysterious trader from RE4: "I'll buy it at a high price!"
Ps I heard the RE6 demo is better than the full game, thoughts? And are you still really impressed with surround cues?

PPS my birthday is tomorrow, and my mom asked at dinner tonight what I wanted for a gift. I was like "I dunno mom, seems most things would be too expensive, or since what I really want is a job and my own place to live, I don't know if you can actually give me what I want." So she gives me her credit card to use tomorrow, $200 to spend on whatever I feel like I can't afford. h34r:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... I think you're right. I felt the demo for Leon's campaign had better surround cues than when I rented the game. I beat all the campaigns, but nothing stuck out at me audio wise.

As for the game itself, I enjoyed it. Leon and Ada's campaigns are the best. I didn't like Chris or Jake's though. Felt like a military shooter for those campaigns.

Perhaps it's because I'm remembering all the other campaigns, and they didn't have regular zombies like Leon's. Ah well.


----------



## ruuku

evshrug said:


> You're like the mysterious trader from RE4: "I'll buy it at a high price!"
> Ps I heard the RE6 demo is better than the full game, thoughts? And are you still really impressed with surround cues?
> PPS my birthday is tomorrow, and my mom asked at dinner tonight what I wanted for a gift. I was like "I dunno mom, seems most things would be too expensive, or since what I really want is a job and my own place to live, I don't know if you can actually give me what I want." So she gives me her credit card to use tomorrow, $200 to spend on whatever I feel like I can't afford. h34r:



Happy birthday Ev! What cha gonna buy?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Happy birthday! You could totally buy my E17. 

My brother's is tomorrow. Lol.

Had to pre-order Black Ops II for him. 

This damn amp better make my headphone turn super saiyan, I swear. :rolleyes:


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Hello everyone!
   
  I wanted to give my input on the new 2013 edition of the Astro A40s with the new mixamp
   
  First, the A40s are improved slightly. They don't sound as hollow to me as the 2011 models, and they added some bass. But if you use the "pro mode" preset on the new mixamp for CoD or whatever, they sound the same as the old ones, at least to me. 
   
  Secondly, the microphone is god awful. For some reason, it sounds fine on my PC, but on Xbox, it is literally the worst mic I have ever used on a headset. My old Turtle Beach X11s were far superior in terms of mic quality.
   
  Finally, there seems to be a design flaw with the new removable cord. If I turn my head to the left, it puts minor strain on the cord connected to the headset, and the right earcup cuts out. They're definitely plugged in all the way. Even worse, sometimes I will have to completely unplug the wire just to get both speakers working again. I'm returning the pair I have currently to see if it was just a fluke.
   
  On to the mixamp!
   
  It works pretty much the same as the old mixamp, only with the addition of EQ modes. The first mode called "pro mode" basically takes away a lot of bass, and it makes things sound really empty. It might work better with another headset that has a better mid and high range than the A40s.
   
  The second EQ mode is flat.
   
  The third mode is a media mode, which turns up the bass and the midrange. It actually really helped the A40s mids, but it made the bass way too loud for gaming.
   
  Finally, there's a sports mode. It makes things sound far away, like you're in a stadium. At least, that's what they were going for. I guess it's for all those people that play sports games.
   
  The mixamp is pretty nice. They changed a lot of the ports. They took away the RCA, the orange one(the name escapes me lol) and the toslink cable. Now, they have a fiber optic port(I think). They include a cord with a fiber optic on one end and toslink on the other. Really annoyed that they changed this. They can still be daisy chained together, and there's still a port to play your own music through the mixamp.
   
  The other new feature of the mixamp is the live streaming feature. Supposedly, it takes all the audio going through the mixamp(game audio, chat, and your mic) and streams it out to your computer. I was trying to get this to work, but there wasn't any instruction manual included with the A40s(just a quick start guide) and the people on Astro's support page weren't all that helpful anyway. 
   
  I'll update the post with some pictures of the new A40s and the mixamp if you want


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's actually an amp only (SA-31). The Compass 2 is indeed a DAC/AMP though.
> You think the SA-31 can power Stax? Probably not. Lol.


 
   
  Must have been looking at the wrong part of the product page there, heh...
   
  The SA-31 won't power any electrostatic headphone by itself. There's a reason they all have special 5/6-pin plugs. Balanced output, for starters; one pin for each stator, plus bias voltage (230V for normal bias Stax, 580V for Pro bias Stax, 600V for Koss ESP/950, and I don't know what the Sennheiser Orpheus and Beyerdynamic ET-1000 setups were designed for).
   
  But if the headphone output on the SA-31 really is that powerful, then maybe it's possible to use a cheap transformer box like an SRD-6 or SRD-7 and wire up the speaker wire terminals to a TRS jack that'll plug into the SA-31's headphone-out. I saw an eBay listing a while back where someone had done just that with an SRD-7/SB. As for why they were designed to connect to speaker amp terminals, it was likely assumed at the time that most people plunking down the cash for 'stats had nice integrated receivers to begin with.
   
  I'm not willing to do the TRS jack thing with my own SRD-7/SB just yet, though. Maybe if I had a spare SRD-6 or SRD-7 of some sort, I'd do it for experimentation's sake and see what conventional headphone amps are up to the task.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You're like the mysterious trader from RE4: "I'll buy it at a high price!"
> Ps I heard the RE6 demo is better than the full game, thoughts? And are you still really impressed with surround cues?
> PPS my birthday is tomorrow, and my mom asked at dinner tonight what I wanted for a gift. I was like "I dunno mom, seems most things would be too expensive, or since what I really want is a job and my own place to live, I don't know if you can actually give me what I want." So she gives me her credit card to use tomorrow, $200 to spend on whatever I feel like I can't afford.


 
   
  That's quite a bit of money there...still not enough for a lot of things (like a high-end graphics card, or a Stax Lambda setup), but you could get a nice X-Fi Titanium HD for your desktop, or a lot of games (just wait 'til the Steam sales get rolling this holiday season!), or maybe a 3DS and a game...ultimately, you decide.
   
  Too bad I can't send you any ice cream cake over the Internet for your birthday...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

UpsidedownAce, thanks a lot for your impressions!

So it seems they still need some more QC for the A40s. A shame.

The orange port is a digital coaxial. I can understand why they took it off. Not a lot of newer equipment uses digital coaxials, and definitely not game systems. However, it was still beneficial as it can be paired up with a toslink to digital coax converter, which would allow for two digital inputs (I.e. PS3 and 360).

The new 3.5mm optic input is actually just perfect. All you need is to get the spdif 3.5mm adapter which are hella cheap, and allows you to use either digital coax or toslink cables (E17 has the same thing). The 3.5mm digital input is infinitely better than a standard toslink input, which are prone to breaking (I've broken two).


----------



## Eric_C

Hey guys, some friends and I started a gaming podcast. There aren't many from my country, but the games we talk about are international so I thought y'all might be interested:
   
https://itunes.apple.com/sg/podcast/staring-at-screens./id566991731
   
  Really appreciate any feedback you can provide.
   
  Also, don't use your good headphones, because my voice is ugly.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I wanted to give my input on the new 2013 edition of the Astro A40s with the new mixamp....


 
   
  Thanks!
   
  Do you know if you can edit and create your own EQ on a computer?  Or do you just have to take whatever presets Astro gave you?


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do you know if you can edit and create your own EQ on a computer?  Or do you just have to take whatever presets Astro gave you?


 
  Right now you're stuck with the four they give you. They say they're going to let you create custom ones in the future. Hopefully soon!


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I wanted to give my input on the new 2013 edition of the Astro A40s with the new mixamp
> 
> ...


 
  So you have tried fps games, how does the positional audio cues stack up especially the rear cues?? In your opinion which  mode works best  for fps games??


----------



## UpsideDownAce

I played a lot of MW2 with these. I would say the positioning is really good. I could definitely tell which direction the gunshots and footsteps were coming from. They're the only open back headphones I've used with the mixamp, so I can't compare them to the AD700s, etc. Rear cues were decent enough. The first eq that's called "pro mode" probably works the best. It tones done the bass response, but it keeps the mids and highs the same. So the explosions won't overpower the rest of the sound. But Astro said they're working on customizable presets, so hopefully you'll be able to program it however you like.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> I played a lot of MW2 with these. I would say the positioning is really good. I could definitely tell which direction the gunshots and footsteps were coming from. They're the only open back headphones I've used with the mixamp, so I can't compare them to the AD700s, etc. Rear cues were decent enough. The first eq that's called "pro mode" probably works the best. It tones done the bass response, but it keeps the mids and highs the same. So the explosions won't overpower the rest of the sound. But Astro said they're working on customizable presets, so hopefully you'll be able to program it however you like.


 
  Thanks so would you say its worth the 250.00 for the set up??


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Thanks so would you say its worth the 250.00 for the set up??


 
  Well...I think they're worth about $200. The MixAmp is definitely the best thing for Doubly Headphone if you're gaming on a console. But, Astro aren't currently selling the MixAmp by itself anymore. They say they will in the future. However, if this right ear cup issue that I mentioned above is an actual problem with the design of the headphone, then they're junk. I'm returning my current pair to test out if I just got a faulty unit or not. I'll update you guys on that hopefully later today


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Depending on how fast my SA-31 comes in, I'm gonna try and keep the 250/600 DT990s as long as I can so I can test them both on it. Right now, if I had to choose, I'm still leaning on the 250ohm. The bass is just more involving for me. The very microscopic lead the 600ohm has in refinement isn't winning me over, when I find music more engaging on the 250ohm. One could also argue the E9K isn't driving the 600ohm up to par, which may be making them thinner sounding than the 250ohm.

The SA-31 has two warm enhancing options that may give the 600ohm enough fullness (assuming it needs it) to make me feel like I don't need the 250ohm however, which is why I'm hoping the SA-31 arrives quickly. I'll hold on to both until then.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Hey guys, some friends and I started a gaming podcast. There aren't many from my country, but the games we talk about are international so I thought y'all might be interested:
> 
> https://itunes.apple.com/sg/podcast/staring-at-screens./id566991731
> 
> ...


 
   
  What kind of recording setup are you using?


----------



## Eric_C

Amazingly: Skype!
We're recording from multiple locations because some of us have to travel, so we're forced to do that. 

Dave and Joel just got Blue Yeti's, and are loving the mic so far. I recorded on site with Joel for episode 3, and we found the Yeti can switch pick-up patterns to "interview" mode--2 of us on either side of the mic. 

When I'm at home, I just use my AntLion ModMic plugged into my PC's mobo mic-in jack. 

The girls seem to be using their laptop mics. 

For audio capture and editing, I'll have to ask Dave.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> The other new feature of the mixamp is the live streaming feature. Supposedly, it takes all the audio going through the mixamp(game audio, chat, and your mic) and streams it out to your computer. I was trying to get this to work, but there wasn't any instruction manual included with the A40s(just a quick start guide) and the people on Astro's support page weren't all that helpful anyway.


 
   
  I tried this a couple of weeks ago. You just plug a 3.5 -> 3.5 cable from the stream port to the line in port on the computer, then you record with whatever software you use on your computer. When you play it back, it sounds exactly like it did through your headset.
   
  -Erik


----------



## kellte2

So, I've had two solid sessions with the DT 990/32 and the E09K hooked up to my DSS2.  I'm really impressed by the fact that the DSS2 produces very little hiss - even cranked to max - through the E09K, even at very loud volume levels.  It is there if you really push the 'phones, but you're also pushing your eardrums at that point.
   
  The 32 ohm models really need a powerful amp and are harder to drive than you'd expect.  Granted, I think the output from the DSS/2 is slightly weaker than the Mixamp, but even at max volume, the E09K (on low gain) still needs to get to the 11 o'clock position to hit a sweet spot for volume and SQ.  Fortunately, from everything that I have read, this area on the amp is actually its sweetspot, generally, so that's good.
   
  As for SQ, the cans still need burn-in time, but they already sound amazing out of the E09K.  Playing Dishonored last night was incredibly immersive and enemy gunshots produced a perfect, boomy pop that really hightened the tension of being caught after sneaking through a level.  Also popped in FIFA 13.  While the sports genre isn't necessarily known for making incredible use of surround sound, crowd chants we crystal clear to the point where you could hear separation of different voices and distinctly make out certain speakers' words as they sang over the match.  Building up an attack brought a huge roar to the crowd and the DT 990 made it seem incredibly authentic and powerful out of the E09K.  This sort of 'oomph' for lack of a better phrase was not present when using the 990s unamped.
   
  While the positioning may not exactly be head and shoulders over my foam-mod HD555s, the clarity, quality, and power of the DT 990s out of the amp is really impressive.  At this point, my only gripe could easily be filed into the OCD category, as I'm miffed by the relatively loose headband adjustment system utilized by Beyer on the DTXX0 line.  Compared to the mechanism on the HD555 (cracking aside), it is really inexact and poor.  Fortunately, I read about that issue all over the internet so I don't think I'm suffering alone or using a defective unit.  Annoying, none the less.
   
  Haven't had much time to test everything with music.  I'm frightened that I'm going to get sucked into purchasing the E17 as a DAC eventually, but I'll need to spend more time with music before I make that sort of move.  In sum, very pleased with my purchases.  The amped DT 990s are a huge step up in SQ, and especially FUN SQ, over the HD555.  I like the flexibility of being able to drive the 32 ohm unamped, but the SQ is so flat sounding compared to being output from the E09K.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> That's quite a bit of money there...still not enough for a lot of things (like a high-end graphics card, or a Stax Lambda setup), but you could get a nice X-Fi Titanium HD for your desktop, or a lot of games (just wait 'til the Steam sales get rolling this holiday season!), or maybe a 3DS and a game...ultimately, you decide.
> 
> Too bad I can't send you any ice cream cake over the Internet for your birthday...




Aw, I really appreciate the sentiment! If it helps, I treated myself to a Dairy Queen Blizzard in Pumpkin Pie, it was good for a change but I don't think I'd eat it all year. So I'll pretend you got it for me 

Honestly I'm not sure what to spend it on, I think I'm gonna buy a new pair of shoes to last a few years, but I might save the rest for something as mundane as bills. Though, another possibility has occurred to me, along the same lines and Mad wishing his incoming amp makes his sound super-saiyan:


Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyMellow 

Thanks for the quick and knowledgeable reply, but unfortunately I never seem to be in the right place at the same time as when the deals appear. lol.
So back to looking for a comfortable set of cans that have AD700 staging but with some ~60Hz bass capabilities for under $200.
I am not interested in a V shaped EQ curve, just a little thump - is that asking too much?
 (End Quote)

Maybe? I've heard several people recommend a new headphone I've not heard called the Takstar, but I can't personally vouch for it.

Last night I played Oblivion with my Recon3D and AD700, it's amazing how strong the virtual surround works, even better than the Q701. I'm sincerely hoping the Q701's soundstage expands and  directional positioning becomes more accurate with an extra amp, but... If not, then I may just get an E11, use the bass boost, and sell my Q701. I waffle on wether the Q701 was worth it at 2x the price... But it is really an amazing headphone when used for music.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, also I bought a pair of really cushy baby seatbelt wraps to put over my AKG Q701 headband


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> So back to looking for a comfortable set of cans that have AD700 staging but with some ~60Hz bass capabilities for under $200.
> I am not interested in a V shaped EQ curve, just a little thump - is that asking too much?
> Maybe?
> 
> Last night I played Oblivion with my Recon3D and AD700, it's amazing how strong the virtual surround works, even better than the Q701. I'm sincerely hoping the Q701's soundstage expands and becomes more accurate with an extra amp, but... If not, then I may just get an E11, use the bass boost, and sell my Q701. I waffle on wether the Q701 was worth it at 2x the price... But it is really an amazing headphone when used for music.


 
   
  The Q701 soundstage does improve slightly with an extra amp, but I would only expect this from a decent desktop amp.  I don't remember any improvements with the E9 even, and I checked it a few times, but when I hooked up the M-stage I had to do a double take to check the sound as it was a bit airier and wider sounding.  Don't expect the Q701, or just about any headphone for that matter, to reach AD700 size soundstage.  AD700 has the largest soundstage I've ever heard (you can check my profile for what I've heard), but its got some serious balance issues.
   
  On the flip side, I wouldn't expect the AD700 to even come close to the Q701 on bass and overall signature balance.  You can boost it, yes, but it will never have the _body_ and impact from headphones like the Q701 - which keep in mind has only a mild mid-bass hump.  Believe me, I've tried boosting the AD700 bass, and it definitely helps, but it still sounds a bit artificial and the quality and texture of the bass gets pretty homogenous after boosting.  The AD700's bass starts to all sound the same and comes from the same spot in the soundstage.
   
  For me, the balance and naturalness of the Q701 is _definitely_ worth the price difference.  The AD700 is great at what it does, but its weaknesses really show when you put against some fuller sounding headphones.  The treble sounds sibilant and grainy and the bass is sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  The Q701 was what made me finally sell my AD700s, as I finally found something that had the best compromise I'd heard between soundstage and signature, to my ears.  I just don't think there's much out there that will keep the _"AD700 staging but with some ~60Hz bass capabilities for under $200."_  You will have to lose _some_ soundstage.  Honestly, I think the Q701 is the best bet for what you said your looking for - and it's what would've recommend if you didn't already have it.  If the Q701 isn't doing it for you, the soundstages only get smaller from there.  The HD5xx are pretty darn large, and they also have more bass than the AD700 (less than the Q701 though).  Still smaller stage than the AD700.  The Beyer's I think are _slightly  _smaller than HD5xx and Q701.  The Q701 is just about the same size as the DT990, maybe slightly larger - but I prefer the positioning on the Q701.
   
  Also, the jump from the Recon's THX to Dolby Headphone may be a better investment.  I can't really say as I haven't heard it, but MLE and Nameless are favoring the mixamp.
   
  You could keep your eye on the AD700x and what not, but I'd be surprised if they're a huge improvement in bass over the current AD700.  They look even more open, and I think improvements in bass will come from the new pads sealing a bit more.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Hi guys. Been using my HD 558's for a few week's now and I love the hell out of them.
Been useing them for gaming and music (fire and flames from dragonforce kick ass on these) and for me there great for both, been able to hear alot more detail then before.

Hear some people say the bass isn't very good, but I say the bass is fine, punchy without going overboard.

So in a few weeks I'm gonna get the money to build my own PC (been wondering how the world of PC gaming is for some time now) and I want to know should I get a sound card or just wait for the new astro mix amp, or just go for an EG like the FiiO amp's?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Hey MLE. I saw your posts on the engadget website (recognized the pascal picture right away). You mentioned that it's much better to get a headphone + seperate mic rather than a gaming headset which is true. Were you referring to pc gaming only though? Is there any way to use a headphone with a seperate mic on the xbox?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Hey MLE. I saw your posts on the engadget website (recognized the pascal picture right away). You mentioned that it's much better to get a headphone + seperate mic rather than a gaming headset which is true. Were you referring to pc gaming only though? Is there any way to use a headphone with a seperate mic on the xbox?


 
   
  You use a mixamp.


----------



## Rebel975

I was even using a rather nice Audio Technica mic and a preamp with the Mixamp at one point. Being able to control the sensitivity of the mic on the fly was awesome.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

So you can plug in your headphones and a separate mic into the mixamp? Do you set the voice in the xbox menu to play through speakers or play through headset? If it plays through speakers on my current headphone the voice can't be adjusted. I've got the TurtleBeach X41's at the moment, but I'm looking to upgrade.


----------



## Rebel975

Yes, you can hook up a Y splitter to the Mixamp and be able to hook up any headphone/mic you want.
   
  I think you set it to play through the headset. Then you have a dial on the Mixamp to keep the chat/game volume balanced how you want it.


----------



## calpis

Set the in game chat to headset. The mixamp gets chat audio from the cable that is connected to headset port on the xbox controller.
   
  This is the cable you need to hook up your headphone and mic to the mixamp. You can't just use any old y-splitter.
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

rayleighsilvers said:


> So you can plug in your headphones and a separate mic into the mixamp? Do you set the voice in the xbox menu to play through speakers or play through headset? If it plays through speakers on my current headphone the voice can't be adjusted. I've got the TurtleBeach X41's at the moment, but I'm looking to upgrade.



First off what headphones do you plan on getting?
I use the HD 558's and I personally feel there an awesome set of cans for the money, though I can see why bass heads won't like them.

And you don't need to go though any settings for it to play through the headset though it will play from the speakers at the same time.

Also how are the X41's? I personally gave up on turtle beach after how bad my PX21's broke.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> First off what headphones do you plan on getting?
> I use the HD 558's and I personally feel there an awesome set of cans for the money, though I can see why bass heads won't like them.
> And you don't need to go though any settings for it to play through the headset though it will play from the speakers at the same time.
> Also how are the X41's? I personally gave up on turtle beach after how bad my PX21's broke.


 
  The HD558's were my first audiophile headphones. Got rid of them after a month. Just found them boring and dreary. Lacked the bass I wanted for gaming, and the dark veil just killed my music. Audio Technica just announced the new Air series headphones so if they fix the bass then I'll be picking up the AD900x.
   
  The X41's are terrible. You get a constant hiss because of the wireless, and there's a lot of distortion, especially with explosions. The only reason I still have them is because the dock it comes with allows you to use dolby 7.1 with any headphone, so I use my Beyers when I'm not in a chat.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

rayleighsilvers said:


> The HD558's were my first audiophile headphones. Got rid of them after a month. Just found them boring and dreary. Lacked the bass I wanted for gaming, and the dark veil just killed my music. Audio Technica just announced the new Air series headphones so if they fix the bass then I'll be picking up the AD900x.
> 
> The X41's are terrible. You get a constant hiss because of the wireless, and there's a lot of distortion, especially with explosions. The only reason I still have them is because the dock it comes with allows you to use dolby 7.1 with any headphone, so I use my Beyers when I'm not in a chat.



Shame you didn't like the 558's, there are my first audiophile headphone's as well and I never found them boring to listen to, ah well to each his own I guess.

Haha I had a feeling the X41's woulden't be that great. Seems like giving up on the brand was a good move for me.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Shame you didn't like the 558's, there are my first audiophile headphone's as well and I never found them boring to listen to, ah well to each his own I guess.
> Haha I had a feeling the X41's woulden't be that great. Seems like giving up on the brand was a good move for me.


 
  I've bought 2 turtlebeach products. Both of them hiss like crazy. When I first had them I thought they were brilliant, but I had never used headphones for gaming before then. 
   
  I probably didn't like the 558's because of my tastes in sound. Other people seem to enjoy them so don't take my comments too seriously


----------



## Eric_C

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So in a few weeks I'm gonna get the money to build my own PC (been wondering how the world of PC gaming is for some time now) and I want to know should I get a sound card or just wait for the new astro mix amp, or just go for an EG like the FiiO amp's?




Get a soundcard. A MixAmp can't do virtual surround for PC unless your soundcard (or on board chip) pushes out a surround signal in the first place. If you're gaming on PC exclusively, just get a soundcard that can handle virtual surround AND amp your headphones. Less wires. Same, if not better, sound quality as a MixAmp. 

What is a EG?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Welcome to the thread, Raleigh.

As others have stated, something like the Mixamp (comes with a Y cable that allows you to use a headphone + external mic). I personally use a very cheap mic that works very well for me. (Its on the first post).

The Mixamp will allow you to hear everyone chatting directly. Very useful, and you can adjust volume on the fly.

Man, I spent all morning rearranging the room again. I literally have my computer desk next to my bed. I sit on my bed as if it was the computer chair. This is one of those times I wish my TV wasn't so big. I don't have a lot of wall space, and paired with my king sized bed... well, its cramped in there. Its a necessary evil as I don't see myself lugging the SA-31 between rooms, lol.


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Just got a replacement pair of the new A40s...Good news! They no longer cut out when the cord gets tugged to the side! Guess I got a faulty pair. I'm fairly happy with them. They don't blow my mind with the quality of them, though. It wasn't anything like my first listening experience with my M50s 
   
  I also noticed the Mixamp produces a lot of hiss if you push the volume past 60%. I'm guessing this is normal? I don't have much experience with the old Mixamp. It sounds a lot like my Turtle Beach hiss, but not quite as loud. You don't hear it once you get into the action. 
   
  I'll probably end up returning these. Most people praise these for their comfort, but they just don't sit well on my head. The earpads are itchy to me, which is a huge annoyance. I also really don't like the headband. It's comfortable, but when you rest the around your neck, their giant plastic wings will jab into me. For some reason, Astro seems to really like sharp edges. 
   
  I might see if I can sell just the headsets for a decent price, and keep the Mixamp. 
   
  Also, really excited for Audio Technica's refreshed AIR series. I'm worried about the headband though. I've heard they don't fit well with small heads, and every pair of headphones I've worn, I have to make them as small as possible to make them fit. But they look SICKKKK.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Hey MLE. I saw your posts on the engadget website (recognized the pascal picture right away). You mentioned that it's much better to get a headphone + seperate mic rather than a gaming headset which is true. Were you referring to pc gaming only though? Is there any way to use a headphone with a seperate mic on the xbox?


 
  The simplest solution as mentioned is to use a mixamp. However, if you have a device (A/V receiver) that already supports Dolby Headphone, you can pick up an AX180 inline cable on ebay and use it.
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> I also noticed the Mixamp produces a lot of hiss if you push the volume past 60%. I'm guessing this is normal? I don't have much experience with the old Mixamp. It sounds a lot like my Turtle Beach hiss, but not quite as loud. You don't hear it once you get into the action.


 
   
  First off, I want to say Rebel is AWESOME. He sent me his old mixamp, and I got it in today.
   
  Secondly, I too noticed when I had the volume cranked on the "2013" mixamp it would produce some static, I thought perhaps all the mixamps did this. The old pre-2010 one I received from Rebel makes no noise all the way cranked up. So while they added the stream feature to the new "2013" model (a feature that can be replicated by using a headphone splitter), I think the older model is superior when it comes to SQ.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Had a feeling they'd botch something up.

Looks like the 2011 Mixamp is the best, in terms of SQ and functionality (has PS3 USB chat).


----------



## Rebel975

@burrito: no problem, buddy. Glad you got it working.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Secondly, I too noticed when I had the volume cranked on the "2013" mixamp it would produce some static, I thought perhaps all the mixamps did this.


 
   
  What do you mean by static?  A constant hissing, or a scratchy noise when you move the potentiometer (volume knob)?


----------



## calpis

Man that's a bummer. I was considering dumping my 2011/Pro to grab a 2013 but I guess that won't be happening anytime soon. Real shame...


----------



## Murrly

Hi, I've decided that I want an upgrade (currently have Turtle Beach X11's). I'm looking for a headphones under $90AUD that are suitable for gaming, music and the like. I've done a fair bit of research and am considering the ATH-AD300 since I found it for $60 including s&h and AKG K-240 for $90 s&h. Either of these better than the other? Also, any other recommendations?


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> The simplest solution as mentioned is to use a mixamp. However, if you have a device (A/V receiver) that already supports Dolby Headphone, you can pick up an AX180 inline cable on ebay and use it.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Unfortunately there are very few a/v receivers that support dolby headphone. The ones that do are very expensive. Do you know of any cheap ones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can used receivers for just over $200, usually Harman Kardon, as they were the main ones to use Dolby Headphone (for a short while). Newer HK receivers have their own virtual surround. Don't know how it stacks up though.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-7-1-Channel-Receiver-Repeater/dp/B0016BGRX6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1350733050&sr=8-2&keywords=harman+kardon+365


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





murrly said:


> Hi, I've decided that I want an upgrade (currently have Turtle Beach X11's). I'm looking for a headphones under $90AUD that are suitable for gaming, music and the like. I've done a fair bit of research and am considering the ATH-AD300 since I found it for $60 including s&h and AKG K-240 for $90 s&h. Either of these better than the other? Also, any other recommendations?


 
   
  What kind of music? Also is it competitive gaming?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What do you mean by static?  A constant hissing, or a scratchy noise when you move the potentiometer (volume knob)?


 
   
  A constant hissing at anything above a certain volume level. I have the mixamp cranked all the way up, and my PC360 at ~75%. When I put the mixamp at ~75% and the PC360 at 100% I notice the same static. The static is there regardless if there is any inputs into the mixamp or not.
   
  Quote: 





rayleighsilvers said:


> Unfortunately there are very few a/v receivers that support dolby headphone. The ones that do are very expensive. Do you know of any cheap ones?


 
   
  As MLE stated before, you will most likely have to grab a used one. Most HK's before they went to the 4 digit naming this last refresh have Dolby Headphone. Some of the old Denon's have it, and a couple of Marantz's (SRx001, SRx002, SRx003 and SRx004). But you would want to check the manuals before purchasing to confirm.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You can used receivers for just over $200, usually Harman Kardon, as they were the main ones to use Dolby Headphone (for a short while). Newer HK receivers have their own virtual surround. Don't know how it stacks up though.
> http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-7-1-Channel-Receiver-Repeater/dp/B0016BGRX6/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1350733050&sr=8-2&keywords=harman+kardon+365


 
   
  I'm going to test HK's "Harman Headphone" later this week when I have time. I'll post my thoughts after. I tried it briefly the other night and wasn't too impressed upon first try.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Murrly

Yeah, some of it is competitive, mostly competitive Tribes Ascend (nothing too serious), and hearing foot steps etc. isn't a priority in tribes. I mostly play FPS. I may occasionally play the odd indie game, RPG or RTS too. In regards to music, I listen to pretty much anything: rock, electronic, alt., classical, it honestly depends on the mood I'm in. I'm just looking for a well rounded, budget headphone which is comfortable, preferable open and over ear. Along the lines of the AD700, but with a little more bass. Or the closest thing to that within the budget.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FUUUUU--, so I sold and shipped out the E17 today. I'm stuck with the Fiio D3 as my DAC. Problem? It's distorting treble like CRAZY. Why of all times did it decide to crap out NOW? I ordered the ODAC, and it should hopefully be here by the end of this next week... but that is many days too long. I don't even know What I'm gonna do without a DAc to feed my amp. The onboard soundcard is HORRIBLE. Sigh... I guess I'll have to plug in from the rear speaker out to the E09K's line in for now...edit: ugh... I can literally hear the veil. Also everything sound between my eyes. No soundstage. I must have a REALLY bad soundcard.

Dammit Fiio, I better get a replacement or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10850&cs_id=1080910&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=1#largeimage 

:eek:

Oh...Monoprice.

It's late and I have to sleep, but this one interests me as an alternative to the AX720 (for cheaper), assuming maybe we can get an adapter to allow use of the amp. It LOOKS like the headset is terminated into a 3.5mm jack if you look at the image with all the accessories, making this truly worth checking into. We can probably hook up any headphone. AGH. Dolby Headphone amp for $85, 'free headset', AND voice chat? HMMMMM...

If it has less hiss than the AX720, this WOULD be the one to get.


----------



## Rebel975

You could always cut the connector off of the included headset and wire it to a pair of 3.5mm TRS jacks.
   
   
  Or I guess you'd need some sort of 6 pin din (I think that's what it is) to dual TRS adapter. I'm looking, but can't really find anything like it. I found a female 6 pin DIN to dual male TRS on the Tritton website, but that's the opposite of what you'd need.
   
  Hmmm... you're right though. It looks like it shows a TRS in the picture, yet the amp shows some sort of 6 pin jacks. I wonder if they include an adapter of some sort. It's a very interesting kit for sure.


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What do you mean by static?  A constant hissing, or a scratchy noise when you move the potentiometer (volume knob)?


 
  It's a constant hiss. Similar to how the Turtle Beach headsets sound


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10850&cs_id=1080910&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
> :eek:
> Oh...Monoprice.
> It's late and I have to sleep, but this one interests me as an alternative to the AX720 (for cheaper), assuming maybe we can get an adapter to allow use of the amp. It LOOKS like the headset is terminated into a 3.5mm jack if you look at the image with all the accessories, making this truly worth checking into. We can probably hook up any headphone. AGH. Dolby Headphone amp for $85, 'free headset', AND voice chat? HMMMMM...
> If it has less hiss than the AX720, this WOULD be the one to get.




Looks awesome! I may have to pick one up and give it a test run, that is CHEAP. If anyone snags one, let us know ASAP.

If it has a good processing circuit/dac (low noise), then this would be by far the best solution!

-Erik


----------



## chicolom

Monoprice FTW!!
   
  I'm surprised they ponied up for Dolby Headphone.
   
  Quote: 





> _"The Digital to Analog Converter (DAC) creates the necessary phasing of the audio signal to the headset to produce a clear and accurate 7.1 channel soundstage, which provides the necessary audible queues you need to excel at FPS gaming. The DAC also allows for* separate volume control over each of the 8 audio channels*, so you can adjust it for the perfect soundstage balance."_


 
   
  Not sure how you control that, as I didn't see enough knobs/buttons.
   
  It looks like you hook up whatever headset to the breakaway cable, similar to the trittons.  The only difference is I think the monoprice breakaway wants a 4-pole combined mic/headphone plug - same as the mixamp.  You can actually see the 2.5mm xbox controller port on the side of the breakway cable.  *AND*, there is a voice volume control knob.  Nice one monoprice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   

   
  Here are the decoder specs.  Not sure how they compare to others.  It does look physically beefier than the DSS....
   

 *Analog-to-Digital Converter Performance* Signal-to-Noise Ratio 102dB ("A" weighted at 48KHz) Total Harmonic Distortion -90dB Sampling Rate 32 ~ 96KHz *Digital-to-Analog Converter
 Performance* Signal-to-Noise Ratio 106dB ("A" weighted at 48KHz) Total Harmonic Distortion -97dB Sampling Frequency 8 ~ 192 KHz


----------



## Rebel975

Just got off of Monoprice chat. They told me that the headset uses a proprietary jack (looks like a 6 pin din to me), and connects directly to the decoder box. He said that there is no way to connect other headphones to the decoder. I think he's wrong, as it looks like you can just connect any headphone to the volume module like chicolom said. Just throw in a TRRS Y splitter and I think it would work.
   
  Who wants to buy one and be our guinea pig? lol


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10850&cs_id=1080910&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That is one *ugly* headset...but who cares about that part of the package? The decoder box looks really nice, and it supports Pro Logic IIx as well. About all you could ask for is DTS.
   
  It looks like there's an adapter bundled with the system, so you don't need to worry about being locked into the bundled headset. Now if they'd just have two adapters, since it looks like the decoder box is designed to drive two headsets at once...
   
  I have to admit, I'm a bit tempted by this, especially if the noise floor is low. (Never mind that I have both the SU-DH1 and Recon3D USB already...)


----------



## chicolom

Someone should contact monoprice and tell them to also sell the decoder + cables separately from the headset.


----------



## ruuku

Inline remote looks strikingly similar to the Tritton/Madcatz... Connector is also the same type.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> The Q701 soundstage does improve slightly with an extra amp, but I would only expect this from a decent desktop amp.  I don't remember any improvements with the E9 even, and I checked it a few times, but when I hooked up the M-stage I had to do a double take to check the sound as it was a bit airier and wider sounding.  Don't expect the Q701, or just about any headphone for that matter, to reach AD700 size soundstage.  AD700 has the largest soundstage I've ever heard (you can check my profile for what I've heard), but its got some serious balance issues.
> 
> On the flip side, I wouldn't expect the AD700 to even come close to the Q701 on bass and overall signature balance.  You can boost it, yes, but it will never have the _body_ and impact from headphones like the Q701 - which keep in mind has only a mild mid-bass hump.  Believe me, I've tried boosting the AD700 bass, and it definitely helps, but it still sounds a bit artificial and the quality and texture of the bass gets pretty homogenous after boosting.  The AD700's bass starts to all sound the same and comes from the same spot in the soundstage.
> 
> ...




Chicolom,
I'm sorry, I used the wrong word... the soundstage is fine on the Q701, as far as sounds seeming to come from outside the head, what I meant to say was that the positional accuracy and realism to the surround sound positioning is majorly better... Like I hear what Mad mentioned as the rear sound positioning sounds like it's between my ears rather than behind me, front and sides are fine, but when I switch to the easier-to-drive AD700, the surround sound works much better and more evenly. Also, treble peaks are harsher. I wouldn't give it a percent difference, but it's like the difference between the effect working and a game-changer, and an effect that isn't really worth it. So if I'm only interested in using headphones for competitive gaming, and have other options for music and recreation, then I can't justify anything but the AD700, because of it's price and the fact that I've never heard a better headphone for competitive gaming.

Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on how much I prefer the Q701 for music... I LOVE LISTENING TO MUSIC WITH MY Q's! It's very musical, balanced, natural yet fun. It's everything I had hoped for in a headphone upgrade, and I spend more time listening to music and looking forward to music than ever before in my life. The baby seatbelt padding transformed the comfort of the headband. My only lingering area for improvement I want is that amp, not for volume but further dynamic muscle and hopefully that it will mate the Q's as adequately with the Recon3D as the recon can power the AD700 plugged straight in. This is revealed when I can do side-by-side comparisons. If the recon3D didn't work so well with the AD700, and I had actually felt impressed by the DSS demos I had heard (admittedly, with the DSS2 and Turtle Beach headphones), I would know that it's all the Recon3D's fault. My guess is that, mostly, the Recon3D's amp isn't enough for the harder-to-drive Q701s.

 I think the Tube amp should be in a similar class as your M-Stage, though obviously yours is a Solid State, so your impressions in the improvement your amp made over cheaper choices are of much interest to me. Thanks! Mad's observations on going from the E17 amp to a better, more powerful desktop amp with the different Beyers are also very encouraging.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chicolom,
> I'm sorry, I used the wrong word... the soundstage is fine on the Q701, as far as sounds seeming to come from outside the head, what I meant to say was that the positional accuracy and realism to the surround sound positioning is majorly better... Like I hear what Mad mentioned as the rear sound positioning sounds like it's between my ears rather than behind me, front and sides are fine, but when I switch to the easier-to-drive AD700, the surround sound works much better and more evenly. I wouldn't give it a percent difference, but it's like the difference between the effect working and a game-changer, and an effect that isn't really worth it.
> 
> Perhaps I didn't put enough emphasis on how much I prefer the Q701 for music... I LOVE LISTENING TO MUSIC WITH MY Q's! It's very musical, balanced, natural yet fun. It's everything I had hoped for in a headphone upgrade, and I spend more time listening to music and looking forward to music than ever before in my life. The baby seatbelt padding transformed the comfort of the headband. My only lingering area for improvement I want is that amp, not for volume but further dynamic muscle and hopefully that it will mate the Q's as adequately with the Recon3D as the recon can power the AD700 plugged straight in.
> ...


 
   
  Oh, OK.
   
  Have you tried using Dolby Headphone?  Instead of buying a 2nd amp for the Recon, I would first spend money on a Dolby Headphone decoder.  AKA improve the source first, before just trying to amp the Recon.  I mean, MLE said the Recon's THX surround is about 75% as nice as Dolby Headphone.  I would expect more positioning improvement from a better surround decoder (Dolby Headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) then double amping the Recon.
   
  There is definitely a difference between a portable amp and a desktop amp for the Q701.  But the better the source you have, the more noticeable the difference and vice a versa.  For music this means you need a decent DAC in order to even benefit from an external desktop amp with the Q701.  Hooking an E9 up to my laptops HP out still sounded about the same - not much improvement.  Hooking it up top the E10's DAC was a huge improvement though.  For gaming, I'm thinking it would make sense to invest in something nicer than the Recon (improve the source) before you start investing in amps.  I hope that makes sense...


----------



## Evshrug

Chicolom,
Argh I'm too slow to edit! Or just not as good explaining my thoughts on first pass 

I guess I haven't heard Dolby Headphone, at least not recently (or does the DSS2 also use DH?), but my thinking is that if the processing works for the AD700 so well, it's not really the fault of the processing technique or DAC quality. Also, I think the Q701 performs optimally paired to a good desktop amp, which I don't as-yet have (paid for half, the other half will be paid once it's here). So, I would be double-amping a Monoprice processor or Mixamp anyway 

Edit: I actually haven't listened to music through my Recon3D, I'm pretty happy on the music front with lossless tracks on my 5th gen iPod Video (which has a pretty good DAC) with a FiiO L11 Line Out Dock adapter and E5 amp (upgrading from this, as you know).

No guarantees I wouldn't want a DAC upgrade or source(Xbox360) upgrade someday


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chicolom,
> Argh I'm too slow to edit! Or just not as good explaining my thoughts on first pass
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  FYI, DSS2 doesn't use DH.
   
  I would disagree slightly, to say that I think some the positioning problems are still because of the processing DSP.  This is because the AD700 is sort of an exception to the rule in that its soundstage is _ridiculously _good at taking advantage of positional cues - more so than just about every other headphone.  In other words, I think the AD700 is making the Recon sound a bit better than it actually is, and I think your perception of the Recon's ability may actually be conflated with the AD700's own exceptional positioning characteristics.  I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea.  In other words, the AD700 will make any DSP (or even just basic stereo, as some weirdos sometimes to prefer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) sound great. 
   
  In that sense, the AD700 doesn't need all that much DSP help to still have good cues, but headphones endowed with a lesser soundstage (like Q701 and everything else <HD800) need all the help they can get, which is why I still think going from THX to Dobly Headphone will be a worthwhile upgrade.
   
  But regardless, it _does_ makes sense to get a desktop amp if your a fan of the Q701.


----------



## Evshrug

I getcha.
I didn't think the DSS2 uses Dolby Headphone (marketing only mentions "Dolby surround").
Because I want a desktop amp anyway, I'm giving that a shot first. Then, I may end up like MLE sampling almost every other device, lol. I'd try that Monoprice deal, and the original DSS, if I was ready


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I getcha.
> I didn't think the DSS2 uses Dolby Headphone (marketing only mentions "Dolby surround").
> Because I want a desktop amp anyway, I'm giving that a shot first. Then, I may end up like MLE sampling almost every other device, lol. I'd try that Monoprice deal, and the original DSS, if I was ready


 
  I believe the DSS2 is some proprietary processing.  Seems to work out just fine in the 'real world', but I'm always interested how other processors sound in comparison.


----------



## chicolom

http://kotaku.com/5951093/the-great-kotaku-gaming-headset-roundup


----------



## Evshrug

kellte2 said:


> I believe the DSS2 is some proprietary processing.  Seems to work out just fine in the 'real world', but I'm always interested how other processors sound in comparison.



That's what I gathered as well. Just like my Yamaha receiver has proprietary surround processing.

I might not have bought the Recon3D or headphone amp if I wasn't living at my mom's. Surprising birthday gift aside, I really need to move out.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Welcome to the thread, Raleigh.


 
   
  lol, I've commented quite a few times on this thread before 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Thanks for the advice guys. I think I will sell my turtlebeach x41's. Won't get much for it but that can't be helped. I'm leaning towards the mixamp rather than the receiver, although I will definitely need one towards the end of spring next year. I've seen different mixamps being mentioned. Should I get the latest one or is the 2011 one the best?


----------



## Evshrug

Well, only one person has spoken here comparing the 2011 and 2013 model side-by-side. We're all just Internet yahoos here (yes, I liked the link Chicolom), and we haven't formed a consensus yet. That said, the 2011 mixamp is a safe bet, and anything earlier is fine as well so long as you don't need PS3 chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug, I was under the assumption that you had tried the original DSS, not the DSS2. Then, you REALLY have to try Dolby Headphone FIRST before getting rid of the Q701. You'd be doing a disservice to them, especially since you haven't tried DH yet. I dunno what DSS2 sounds like, but I can assure you, the positioning on DH IS better than the Recond3D by a significant amount.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Evshrug, I was under the assumption that you had tried the original DSS, not the DSS2. Then, you REALLY have to try Dolby Headphone FIRST before getting rid of the Q701. You'd be doing a disservice to them, especially since you haven't tried DH yet. I dunno what DSS2 sounds like, but I can assure you, the positioning on DH IS better than the Recond3D by a significant amount.




I think I have heard the original DSS a long time ago... I just assume that it's better than the DSS2, which I would actually place behind the Recon3D and Yamaha's Silent Cinema. Part of why I was interested in the super-low eBay prices on the DSS (would need a Monoprice optical cable tho) a month or so back, instead of the recon3D. The DSS2 was pretty poor, like a rather narrow oval shaped positioning field that was hardly better than right-left panning. I did end up blowing my birthday money on much-needed shoes & a non-trial version of Win8 Pro.

I kinda wish Zigis would finish my amp so I could hear it already! Also, don't feel bad about the Q701... I love them and find them very musical, they make me feel rich to have something so refined, it's just that if money becomes a worry, between the option of AD700 for gaming and my speakers for music once I move out in the long run, the Q701, the Recon3D, and the desktop amp may lose out to gas money or some other essential. I WANT to keep them and tune everything around them perfectly.

Since my mom forgot to turn off the mobile hotspot tonight, I'm tempted to see if I can listen to the DH and CMSS-3D videos through my iPad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You need to spend some time time these surround amps. I could never gauge the performance of the DSS and paired headsets off what I hear in Bestbuy, because it all sounds horrible there. The vids they use don't even sound like they are in surround. @_@


----------



## NamelessPFG

I'm beginning to think that buying the Recon3D USB solely to review really wasn't the best of decisions.
   
  I'm not truly satisfied with it, and especially now that Mad Lust Envy wasn't truly satisfied with it, I'm left with a $70 device I can't sell.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> FYI, DSS2 doesn't use DH.
> 
> I would disagree slightly, to say that I think some the positioning problems are still because of the processing DSP.  This is because the AD700 is sort of an exception to the rule in that its soundstage is _ridiculously _good at taking advantage of positional cues - more so than just about every other headphone.  In other words, I think the AD700 is making the Recon sound a bit better than it actually is, and I think your perception of the Recon's ability may actually be conflated with the AD700's own exceptional positioning characteristics.  I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea.  In other words, the AD700 will make any DSP (or even just basic stereo, as some weirdos sometimes to prefer
> 
> ...


 
   
  You forgot Stax. Seriously, a typical Lambda-series set is AD700 on super-steroids. More atmospheric soundstage, more clarity, more speed, and heck, even some bass presence. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The amp requirements can be ridiculously demanding if you don't already have a nice speaker amp/receiver, but I can definitely say it's a natural progression for AD700 fans.
   
  That said, even my "AD700s on super steroids" couldn't really help THX TruStudio Surround compared to CMSS-3D Headphone for PC gaming. The deficiencies in positioning were still noticeable in my comparisons, and I'd expect no less even if I still had my AD700s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now I feel bad. Maybe I should've waited until after you sold it to put up the review? Lol. Try Ebay?

I lost $30+ for something I bought one month ago (E17). Sigh, every little bit does sting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A heads up, that faulty DT990/32 is back up on Amazon for $149. Do NOT buy it. Right there on the description, it says discoloration, no sound from the right side, and no returns accepted.

Pay attention!

I'm interested in that Monoprice headset for sure. Can't afford to buy anything unnecessary, but still, that DH amp may be a gem, and the headset may actually be a good starter can. I may gift it to my brother for Xmas, and tell him I need a few days with it.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> You need to spend some time time these surround amps. I could never gauge the performance of the DSS and paired headsets off what I hear in Bestbuy, because it all sounds horrible there. The vids they use don't even sound like they are in surround. @_@




Definitely had the "these don't even sound like they are in surround" feeling at BB. The store was almost empty, and I replayed the surround video 5-6 times, paying especial attention to the part where they play a swoosh that is supposed to circle corresponding to the circle of loudspeaker icons... No joy.

Finally found Nameless' video links from a week back (this post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-10-16-12-ps3-bd-playback-in-dolby-digital/8265#post_8774789). I can't say anything conclusive, because my right ear feels awful right now. For some reason, the first video says it's unavailable right now. I also listened to the vid Mad has posted on the first page (embedded YouTube videos have only recently started showing up on Head-Fi when viewed on an iPad)... again, can't say anything conclusive, but front-back surround worked better for me. Sadly, the part where the gamer was standing in the center of the circle of turrets was the only part out of both videos that sounded realistic to me. Mad, DH rear positioning cues are quieted/muffled just like THXTSP does! But that never bothered me.

My right ear is actually starting to feel irritated right now as I type this though. Clogging, pressure, hot... unfun. I'm gonna flush it out, but I think another day will be more fair.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Still,those vids are a taste. You really have to play games to get a feel for it.I found virtual surround works best when you're busy with action, where it really helps to locate sounds around you. When you're just watching a movie or something, I found it to be considerably worse.

Also, even though I found out how to use DH for BD movies, I feel like its not as good as the true DTS decoding on the SU-DH1.

And yes, rear positioning is indeed quieter than front. Even the Headzone does that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'm beginning to think that buying the Recon3D USB solely to review really wasn't the best of decisions.
> 
> I'm not truly satisfied with it, and especially now that Mad Lust Envy wasn't truly satisfied with it, I'm left with a $70 device I can't sell.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Put it up on eBay ASAP!
   
  Ya, I figured he wouldn't be springing for Stax anytime soon, so I left that out.


----------



## Evshrug

Also Nameless, don't feel too bad, if we've learned one thing on Head-Fi, it's that YMMV. I'm not entirely sure that the difference between CMSS-3D, DH modes, and THX TSP don't just come down to personal preference and inner-ear shape. Rear positioning didn't work as well as DH for Mad, and he's honest for not trying to mislead people, but it works better for me than I would've guessed from his description. And CMSS-3D works better than both, for you, right? $70 is cheap for what the Recon3D is, which is a decent console+pc processor. It'll be a good buy for someone 

Chicolom,
Yup, can't afford Stax ATM! Tho I wonder if my receiver has the right connectors for NO, CAN'T SPEND! MUST SAVE FOR WINTER!!! XD

Mad,
I hear what you are saying, and I do get more involved and adjusted while playing a game, but considering that DH and many of these other codecs were developed first for watching cinema movies... I watched my Dark Night DVD on my laptop, through the Recon3D and Q701 a few weeks ago: I "got" it right away (busting glass and zip line), and enjoyed the whole movie very muchly. So it can't be a complete fail-test.

Eh, I love talking with you guys and all, but I'm about to complete the Mages Guild questline in Oblivion! TTYL!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be more specific about DTS on BD through the PS3's bitstream mix option. It doesn't sound as great as the real DTS decoding on the SU-DH1 from memory.

And for movies YMwilldefinitelyV, as some movies have really good directional cues, and some are really lazy with it. I mainly like to test the jackals in Avatar, because it was really impressive with the Headzone and SU-DH1. It was great through the Mixamp/Bitstream mix, but not as prominent in surround cues as I remember.


----------



## xxgreydogxx

Hey everyone!
  Im looking to get the AKG Q701's; along with the mix amp pro, an amp, and a mic. My question is, is there any problems with this setup for use on the 360/pc? and what amps should i be looking at?
  Thanks for the help, Im ordering it all on Monday so please help soon!


----------



## calpis

Ev, when I had MLE's Q701 before sending it off to you, I had a lovely time with it with DH. Even with MW3, everything sounded good and I got better than usual scores with it. Really, don't get rid of them until you've tried them with a true DH source and even better if it's amped a little. I've tried DH, yamaha, and sony, DH is still the best imo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Calpis, I bet the Pro 2900 would sound amazing with the SA-31 and its extra warmth options. 

That's really the only thing the Pro 2900 needs for me, some warmth.

I'll have to see just how the SA-31's warmth settings alter the sound of all headphones though.

Maaaan, this would probably be the perfect amp for the Q701 too! All that powah!

I'll be able to A/B the SA-31 and E9K hopefully. The E9K has a line out, so I'll be...

ODAC - E9K - Line out - SA-31 - DT990s

That way I can quickly switch from one amp to another. I'll try and borrow the CAL and M50 (maybe even the ES7s) as well for the tests, though not sure the E9K will play nice with those due to the high output impedance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

xxgreydogxx said:


> Hey everyone!
> Im looking to get the AKG Q701's; along with the mix amp pro, an amp, and a mic. My question is, is there any problems with this setup for use on the 360/pc? and what amps should i be looking at?
> Thanks for the help, Im ordering it all on Monday so please help soon!




How much can you pay for an amp?

My logical assumptions for amps:

JDS Labs O2 ($150) - very neutral and may make the Q701 more analytical
Matrix M Stage ($250), more powerful and may add some smoothness which can help the Q701

Problems with 360? Not at all. PC? If your PC doesn't output Dolby Digital through its optical out, you won't get Dolby Headphone for the Mixamp. Ask Nameless, as he knows how it'd work.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Calpis, I bet the Pro 2900 would sound amazing with the SA-31 and its extra warmth options.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Haha, I bet they would. Would love to try out the SA-31 since I recently bought a NOS vintage Pioneer SE-305 and it's all mids and highs out of my mstage and would love to be able to tweak it because it does have good bass but the mids and highs are just so prominent. I EQ'd all the mids and highs down in foobar and sounded great and well balanced. Hooked them up to a very vintage Denon stereo receiver and did the same thing and got a very good sound out of them. I have a Technics EQ laying around in the garage that I should hook up to the mstage but I'm out of desktop space lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Later on we may have to swap again . Not sure if you ever tried the 990s. I think they wouldn't be far off from what you're used to in the Pro 900s except more bass and similar edgy treble. Not sure which is edgier. Probably the 990s, though you're not against EQ, so you may love them.

How much you pay for the Pioneers? They look interesting, though the pads scare me.


----------



## calpis

Hehe, I dunno... ever since I opened up the holes in the back of the drivers the bass has been bumpin. I still gotta cover them back up again because I've already forgotten how it sounded like before. You've also really got my interest spiked up on the 990s so that could be a thing that happens again. As far as the SE-305, spent $20 on them and came with the original storage case and manual and they were in spectacular condition considering they're roughly 30-40 years old. You wouldn't like the earpads... but winter is coming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Brace ourselves? Lol.

I wish winter was actually a thing down here. 

It hit low 90s the other day. Its still very much Summer here. :rolleyes:

I don't belong down here, that's for sure.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Brace ourselves? Lol.
> I wish winter was actually a thing down here.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My wife and I are headed down to Disney World before Christmas and we're hoping its in the 70's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dec/Jan/Feb CAN hit 40's for highs, but its rare. 60/70s for a few weeks during Xmas time sounds about right.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> You wouldn't like the earpads... but winter is coming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh Chico... I can always count on you. XD


----------



## chicolom

Had to be done.


----------



## Evshrug

Har de har har!


----------



## Evshrug

There once was a man who hated pleather,
Who complained no matter the weather.
"Curses! I've got headphone pain, whether
Circumaural or light as a feather,
Sealed or open don't help me neither!"
So he gathered his sweaty pads together,
And tossed them into the river ether.

"Begone, imitation pad cover!
I'm leaving you for a real pleasure!
Velour! Velour! Forever more!

*Ev collapses from dopey fatigue*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Someone pay this man!

In other news, I guess its best for me to feed the optical out from my TV to the Mixamp and use it in stereo mode, feeding to the E9K, and then to my cans. At least until the ODAC arrives. I'll have to deal with a little hiss, but its better than the messed up D3, and horrible onboard soundcard.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Velour! Velour! Forever more!


 
   
  That's my motto.


----------



## l00l

Hello, thanks to this thread in great parts I currently own a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro (250 ohm) headphones, an Astro Mixamp Pro and a Fiio E6. Overall I love the setup and enjoy the sound for gaming (xbox), DVD/Blu Ray, music and TV.
   
  Still I´d love to add a real DAC/amp and have laid an eye on the Fiio E17. Couple of question regarding this:
  - Would my headphones really benefit from the E17 when I hook it up to the mixamp pro? I really like the sound of the Beyers as they are right now (except treble sometimes), but if you don´t have the better setup you don´t know what you are potentially missing out on I guess. 
  - Is there a real alternative to the E17 in the same price range?
  - Is there already an option to watch DTS-HD tracks through a bluray player (no PS3) or will I simply miss out on really good sound when it comes to watching blurays.
   
  thank you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9K is cheaper than the E17, and infinitely more powerful, and more beneficial for the Beyers. It just doesn't have a DAC which doesn't do anything for when hooking it up to the Mixamp anyways.

The E6 is barely an amp and more of a glorified slight volume boost that doesn't even really help the Mixamp... ANYTHING worth their weight in actual amping is better than it.

Is there a better dac/amp than the E17 at the price range? I doubt it.


As for DTS... see if there's any options on your player that allows bitstream mixing.


----------



## l00l

The Fiio E9K is actually a lil more expensive here (€ 15), but I really would appreciate beein able to hook the E17 up to my MacBook if I wanna listen to some music or maybe watch a DVD. So it´s not like I need it ONLY to hook it up to the mixamp.
  I also like the EQ option of the E17.
   
  Would you agree that the E17 improves my overall experience with my beyers? I suppose I still could get the E9K later and connect it to the E17, right?
   
  Only option my blu ray player (Philips BDP 3200) allows is "digital audio" on either "Auto", "PCM", or "Bitstream". I´ll have to set it to "PCM" or I hear nothing at all to begin with. There are also options that say "PCM-Downsampling" (on or off) and "Downmix-mode" (Stereo or Dolby Surround L/R".
  Have no idea what the PCM-Downsampling does, but might the Downmix-mode be what I am looking for? I actually think it is...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bitstream is for the optical/digital coaxial out. Don't know why you wouldn't hear anything.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





l00l said:


> The Fiio E9K is actually a lil more expensive here (€ 15), but I really would appreciate beein able to hook the E17 up to my MacBook if I wanna listen to some music or maybe watch a DVD. So it´s not like I need it ONLY to hook it up to the mixamp.
> I also like the EQ option of the E17.
> 
> Would you agree that the E17 improves my overall experience with my beyers? I suppose I still could get the E9K later and connect it to the E17, right?
> ...


 
  I believe bitstream has to be decoded to PCM before the E17 can process the audio signal.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Bitstream is for the optical/digital coaxial out. Don't know why you wouldn't hear anything.


 
  Does not bitstream need to changed to PCM before something like the E17 can read the signal?


----------



## l00l

In the description it says something like bitstream sends through the orignal track (DTS-HD) whereas PCM is for devices that do not support multiple channels. It always made sense to me that the mixamp couldn´t process the original DTS signal from the blu ray player.
   
  Anyways, would the E17 be a good choice? Can I pair it with the E9K later on?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





l00l said:


> In the description it says something like bitstream sends through the orignal track (DTS-HD) whereas PCM is for devices that do not support multiple channels. It always made sense to me that the Mix-amp couldn´t process the original DTS signal from the blu ray player.
> 
> Anyways, would the E17 be a good choice? Can I pair it with the E9K later on?


 
  I'm assuming your connecting the Philips Blu-ray player to the Astro Mix-amp Pro using a coaxial cable?
   
  First off, there is a new firmware update (Oct-15-2012) for your Philips Blu-ray player.
  http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=nl&ctn=BDP3200/12
   
  So far the best settings I can figure of for audio from the Blu-ray to the Mix-amp is setting the Philips for "Down-mix mode" for Dolby Surround.
  I believe the Down-mix mode takes Multi channel audio and mixes to be able to send it thru 2-channels (using coaxial)
  And I guess the Astro Mix-amp can then decode the Dolby Surround back to the Multi channel signal.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I'm assuming your connecting the Philips Blu-ray player to the Astro Mix-amp Pro using a coaxial cable?
> 
> First off, there is a new firmware update (Oct-15-2012) for your Philips Blu-ray player.
> http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=nl&ctn=BDP3200/12
> ...


 
   
  That´s just what I was thinking, but not quiet sure. Thank you!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Someone pay this man!




Yes, apparently having several hobbies isn't enough, lol. I'm debating working at Panera... Overworked for near-minimum wage, but you get 40 hours a week, social interaction, 1/2 price food, and at least some activity. Blue collar seems all I can get at the moment.

On another note, I'm borrowing a friend's mandolin, see if I can't learn to play a bit 

IOOI,
Your username makes me me think of Isos from TRON.
Based of how things are priced relative to eachother in the US, I would say in that price range you have the FiiO E9, E17, and tube amps well-reviewed on Head-Fi yet sold through EBay, like the Little Dot i+ and a desktop tube amp by Fred_Fred_2004. Note that I haven't personally heard any of these, but read quite a bit about them. A more powerful amp ought to make a noticeable difference in the dynamics, sustained bass note authority, "tighten" up the bass, soundstage, "lift the veil," and in general help a headphone sound a tad more refined.

I'm picking a tube hybrid amp for myself, because tube amps add a rich coloration, make the presentation more "liquid," and might roll off the highs just a tad to make them less harsh while no less detailed. The other benefit is how each tube has a unique signature - for 10-20$ each, you can change them like a lightbulb (almost) and experiment with a sound tailored for specific headphones or genres. It's a bit more broad in effect than an equalizer... But equalizers can get you most of the way. I can't yet recommend the amp I bought because it has yet to be finished and delivered, and I think it'll be priced above the range you're looking anyway. With a Solid State amp, you know what you're getting, they're usually pretty transparent so you just hear more what the headphone does by itself.

I would encourage you to look into these models, and pick your favourite 

PS Mad, I had hoped to send you the amp before you bought your "end game" tube amp from Audio-GD, but the builder guy only just got all the parts and you ordered your amp pretty quick 
Edit: I gave the builder money for his pre-production model a good while back, I just sent him an email that will hopefully light a fire under his seat: have the amp delivered so I can hear it at least 3 days before 30 days are up from the date of payment, or I'm opening a PayPal claim against him. I was being pretty patient, but if he's going to do business, he has to know that people won't wait forever.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yes, apparently having several hobbies isn't enough, lol. I'm debating working at Panera... Overworked for near-minimum wage, but you get 40 hours a week, social interaction, 1/2 price food, and at least some activity. Blue collar seems all I can get at the moment.


 
   
  If it makes you feel any better, that's already better than my working situation. 12-16 hours a week, arbitrarily scheduled (though last week was 24 hours), $7.25 per hour, next to no discounts or other real benefits (the most I get is 10% off on store-brand stuff, while the restaurants in the area actually give me 15% off just for working at the nearby store...still not 50% off, though), people always expecting more out of your work, and it's not even a job relevant to my computer skills.
   
  At least I get a paycheck every week. That feels great, especially in an economy where a whole lot of people are unemployed still. But that doesn't mean I'm not looking for advancement opportunities...
   
  As for something more videogame-related, just be glad we're not really living in Jones in the Fast Lane...a world where typical fast food costs around $80 at the _least_ for a side of fries, and your apartment doesn't even have a refrigerator or other basic amenities from the looks of it, even though you're still paying hundreds of dollars for rent every month. Some of my friends say it's disturbingly realistic in how depressing it is; during one game, one of them even tried to apply for a loan, got turned down because he wasn't making enough, and then _he got robbed._ This game really hates you, almost as much as a typical Roguelike.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I gave the builder money for his pre-production model a good while back, I just sent him an email that will hopefully light a fire under his seat: have the amp delivered so I can hear it at least 3 days before 30 days are up from the date of payment, or I'm opening a PayPal claim against him. I was being pretty patient, but if he's going to do business, he has to know that people won't wait forever.


 
   
   
  That sounds very suspicious.  Seems like a read about some scams before where people would ask for money in advance to build amps.  Unless that guy has lots of positive feedback I would be wary.


----------



## Stradbrook

HI all. First entry into HQ headphones here - I've been running off of a cheap Plantronics headset for years. But first off, a serious thank you to Mad Lust Envy, NamelessPFG and the other frequent posters here. I've spent hours combing through the forums, but it's been really helpful to have concise guides to refer back to. While I'm closer to reaching a decision, I've found myself stalled between a few options and would really appreciate any opinions you might have.
   
*Background: *The intended use here is about 50/50 gaming (both PC and console) and music (probably a fair amount of Pandora). My musical tastes fluctuate between EDM, hip hop and pop. If it's helpful, I'd be happy to post a few links. As for the gaming, it's predominately single-player RPGs (love the Pascal photo Mad Lust) with a lesser emphasis on FPS. I'd lean towards prioritizing "fun" over "competitiveness." 
   
*Headphone Needs:* I game in the living room while my wife watches television, so closed headphones with a strong ability to block out background noise is a must. Beyond that, I have a strong preference for circumaural and velour (amusing, given the recent poetry on this topic). Financially, I'd prefer not to top $200 on the headphones. Extra for accessories is fine. 
   
*Set Up:* Currently minimal. No amp and basic motherboard sound. I'm probably going to pick up a Xonar DG or STX around Christmas and would love to pick up a Mixamp sometime as well. I have no issues picking up an inexpensive amp (E10?) if it would be helpful. This is strictly for at-home use, so there's no need for a mobile set up.
   
*The Tossup:* Right now, I'm feeling fairly locked between the DT770 and the Brainwavz HM5 - possibly the SRH840. The DT770's seem incredibly comfortable and the bass should probably suit my musical tastes. I suppose my main concern is Mad Lust's comment that "the finer details are pretty much sucked out because of the bass." These will be all-purpose headphones for me, so I don't want to feel like I'm losing mids and highs just to get the extra bass. That said, while the HM5's are appealing from both from a price point and for their "neutrality," they look a bit less comfortable and I've read that they can feel lacking in the bass and may not isolate sound as well. I realize the is ultimately subjective, but I'd really appreciate feedback as how much detail I could expect to miss out on if I chose to go with the more bass-emphasized set. Thanks!
   
*tl;dr:* Looking for sub $200 cans for a 50/50 gaming/music (EDM and hiphop) split and am torn between the DT770's and the Brainwavz HM5. Questioning if the DT770's bass would keep them from being an all-purpose set.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> Does not bitstream need to changed to PCM before something like the E17 can read the signal?




I was under the assumption he was hooking up the Mixamp to his BD player. The Mixamp NEEDS bitstream (assuming the signal is Dolby Digital). Then he'd hook up the E17 to the Mixamp.

If he downmixes to PCM, the Mixamp WON'T get Dolby Headphone. It will just get stereo, and process that, which won't sound good.

I don't know how that's helpful for his need of DTS decoding to Dolby though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stradbrook said:


> HI all. First entry into HQ headphones here - I've been running off of a cheap Plantronics headset for years. But first off, a serious thank you to Mad Lust Envy, NamelessPFG and the other frequent posters here. I've spent hours combing through the forums, but it's been really helpful to have concise guides to refer back to. While I'm closer to reaching a decision, I've found myself stalled between a few options and would really appreciate any opinions you might have.
> 
> *Background: *The intended use here is about 50/50 gaming (both PC and console) and music (probably a fair amount of Pandora). My musical tastes fluctuate between EDM, hip hop and pop. If it's helpful, I'd be happy to post a few links. As for the gaming, it's predominately single-player RPGs (love the Pascal photo Mad Lust) with a lesser emphasis on FPS. I'd lean towards prioritizing "fun" over "competitiveness."
> 
> ...




The DT770 Pro 80s are bass and treble centric cans. The mids are what's sucked out. They also are very sloppy without amping. They're easy to drive in that they get loud easily, but an amp is needed to control that bass a bit. I haven't tried them yet, but I'd seriously consider the Brainwavz HM5 and look for the velours (probably have to order them from the Fischer Audio FA-003 (same headphones). 

Also, I'd look into the Custom Pro Ones which are the little brother of the DT770s (same size and all, but newer, no real need to amp aside from the Mixamp, and have a tuning systems that lets you tweak the bass... it looks VERY interesting). You'd have to order the 770 velours for it though.

I tend to recommend older headphones, but there is a lot of new stuff that could be awesome for gaming. The HM5 and COP could be ideal.


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also, I'd look into the Custom Pro Ones which are the little brother of the DT770s (same size and all, but newer, no real need to amp aside from the Mixamp, and have a tuning systems that lets you tweak the bass... it looks VERY interesting). You'd have to order the 770 velours for it though.
> I tend to recommend older headphones, but there is a lot of new stuff that could be awesome for gaming. The HM5 and COP could be ideal.


 
   
  Speaking of the Custom Pro Ones, I've heard they're going to release a microphone for it as well...very excited for them! The bass control also sounds similar to those new wireless PS3 headsets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The cool thing is that the bass control seems to be mechanical, and not electronical. So I assume it's like expanding the bass ports to different sizes.

The only thing that turns me off is that almost everyone who has them has stated the DT770s are still better. The DT770 Pros are cheaper, and I'd rather live with a boomier, but more refined headphone.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I was under the assumption he was hooking up the Mixamp to his BD player. The Mixamp NEEDS bitstream (assuming the signal is Dolby Digital). Then he'd hook up the E17 to the Mixamp.
> If he downmixes to PCM, the Mixamp WON'T get Dolby Headphone. It will just get stereo, and process that, which won't sound good.
> I don't know how that's helpful for his need of DTS decoding to Dolby though.


 
  I am. I connect the mixamp to the BD player via coax. If I have the player on bistream and it´s a DD 5.1 signal it will give out somehting through the mixamp. If it is a DTS-HD signal it will not and I hear nothing.


----------



## afreeman

I bought the dt 990 pro about a year ago after reading your guide and going through the forums. Loved the HPs and then a week ago no sound in left ear. Checked the cable, the plug etc and found out it was the speaker itself. So now i am in the market for another pair. However this time around i was looking at the Q701. You have praised the akg and at the same time also the 990s. Would you say the AKG would be on par or better then the 990s? 
  Thanks. 
   
   
  PS really disappointed by the reliability of the Bayer, having my first good headphone die on me after just a year, ;(


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd just contact Beyer to get them fixed. The Q701 and 990s are VERY different. All that time being used to the 990s, you may find the Q701 lacking in bass and energy. Quite different. More complimentary than anything.


----------



## chicolom

afreeman said:


> So now i am in the market for another pair. However this time around i was looking at the Q701. You have praised the akg and at the same time also the 990s. Would you say the AKG would be on par or better then the 990s?




One isn't better than the other, they're just different signatures...


----------



## ronswanson

Does anyone know if the latest TB DPX21 and DSS2 still produce the same hissing that MLE's review talks about in the OP?  I'm sending my Tritton 720+ back to amazon for a refund because of the annoying buzz, and it might be hard for me to wait until december for amazon to stock the standalone Astro Mixamps again.  So I'm thinking about giving the TB bundle a try.
   
  If the 720s were a soft hiss like you get from some open mics, it probably wouldn't have bothered me much, but this was more of a low level harsh buzz.  It's too bad, because they sounded great otherwise.


----------



## afreeman

As i am in pakistan the shipping to and from bayer for getting them fixed would be more then the price of a new pair, so thats out of the question. 
  I am aware that the 990 pro are bass heavy and given that i have been using them for a year, i might not get like the Q701 initially. I do have to say though that i felt the 990s to have too much treble for my liking. 
  Should i go for the 990 premium instead of the AKGs? or should i try for the HE 400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HE400 for sure. Better than anything on my list.


----------



## I95North

ronswanson said:


> Does anyone know if the latest TB DPX21 and DSS2 still produce the same hissing that MLE's review talks about in the OP?  I'm sending my Tritton 720+ back to amazon for a refund because of the annoying buzz, and it might be hard for me to wait until december for amazon to stock the standalone Astro Mixamps again.  So I'm thinking about giving the TB bundle a try.
> 
> If the 720s were a soft hiss like you get from some open mics, it probably wouldn't have bothered me much, but this was more of a low level harsh buzz.  It's too bad, because they sounded great otherwise.




I have the dss2 but I can't remember if it hisses or not. My dss2 has the headphone driver opamp taken out so that I can go into any amp of my choosing without double amping the device.. FWIR no it does not hiss in its unmodified state but don't hold me to that lol. 

I do know for sure my dss2 does not hiss at all..


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





i95north said:


> I have the dss2 but I can't remember if it hisses or not. My dss2 has the headphone driver opamp taken out so that I can go into any amp of my choosing without double amping the device.. FWIR no it does not hiss in its unmodified state but don't hold me to that lol.
> I do know for sure my dss2 does not hiss at all..


 
  ok thanks.  I guess my only other concern is that it doesn't have dolby headphone, and it only simulates 4.1 instead of 5.1/7.1?
   
  If it only simulates 4.1 (assuming there is even that big of a difference between 4.1 and 5.1/7.1), I may just hold off until december for when Astro will supposedly start selling the stand-alone mixamp again on Amazon.  I want to use my amazon credits to make the purchase.


----------



## calpis

you can mod the DSS2? That's kinda cool. Is the opamp in the dss2 socketed or did you have to desolder it off?


----------



## I95North

ronswanson said:


> ok thanks.  I guess my only other concern is that it doesn't have dolby headphone, and it only simulates 4.1 instead of 5.1/7.1?
> 
> If it only simulates 4.1 (assuming there is even that big of a difference between 4.1 and 5.1/7.1), I may just hold off until december for when Astro will supposedly start selling the stand-alone mixamp again on Amazon.  I want to use my amazon credits to make the purchase.




FWIR from calling turtle beach some months back it's dolby digital and as far as I know it does 5.1 but I'm not sure if the tech support I spoke to awhile ago knew himself.. 

The owners manual says "the industry-standard format for encoding multichannel game audio. Dolby Digital processing recreates 5.1 channel surround sound so you can hear the sound all around you, as If you were listening to a 5.1 speaker system".


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





i95north said:


> FWIR from calling turtle beach some months back it's dolby digital and as far as I know it does 5.1 but I'm not sure if the tech support I spoke to awhile ago knew himself..
> The owners manual says "the industry-standard format for encoding multichannel game audio. Dolby Digital processing recreates 5.1 channel surround sound so you can hear the sound all around you, as If you were listening to a 5.1 speaker system".


 
   
  I don't know where the whole "4.1" thing came from.  The manual says exactly what I95North stated.  You can adjust 4 channels with several different positioning angles, so that's 4, but the center channel is static.  
   
  Very cool that you can mod it.  Care to provide details?
   
  As for DSS2 hiss, I can't detect any hiss, even at the highest volume.  In order to produce hiss through the DT 990s + E09K, I need to crank the amp all the way to the 3 o'clock position - or so - with the DSS cranked all the way.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





i95north said:


> FWIR from calling turtle beach some months back it's dolby digital and as far as I know it does 5.1 but I'm not sure if the tech support I spoke to awhile ago knew himself..
> The owners manual says "the industry-standard format for encoding multichannel game audio. Dolby Digital processing recreates 5.1 channel surround sound so you can hear the sound all around you, as If you were listening to a 5.1 speaker system".


 
   
  Well, it HAS to take Dolby Digital 5.1 into the input, because that's all that most consoles will output.  That doesn't mean "Dolby _Headphone"_ is coming out the other end.  If it was using Dolby Headphone, there would definitely be some logos of it on there.
   
  Someone posted a long time ago the name of the DSP it uses.  It's in this thread somewhere...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. Same way the Recon 3D needs Dolby Digital to do it's THX Tru Studio.



Lookie what I found at the Magnolia section at my Bestbuy? I did NOT see these before!

Mentionables (tried them all on my friend's phone as the source)...

ESW9A: I bought these before. What? I LOVED their sound this time! Very rich, warm, leaning towards bass and mids. Treble was a nice kind of smooth. I really enjoyed it. I hated them when I owned them. Hmm...this caught me off guard.

A900X: Ugh. Just... no. From first try putting them on...I absolutely hated them... everything about them. Still with that terrible Audio Technica loose ass wing design that did slipping all over the place, with zero clamp, and zero sense of being secured on my head. I will never, EVER try an A-T seriously again, until they get rid of that design. The sound... where's the bass? It's a closed headphone, and yet... weak as hell bass. Didn't like them one bit.

AKG K550: Very sexy. Quite comfy for a pleather padded headphone. Sound? Where is the LIFE? I haven't heard a soulless headphone like this... the bass was terribly weak, and everything felt too sterile and dry. Didn't like them one bit. Don't know why this was so popular, to be honest. They were as inviting as a dentist appointment. The Q701 is INFINITELY better than these. Shame on those who called them a closed Q701. That's an absolute insult to the Q701, even when the Q701 is ampless.

HD558: Hmm! I have to say... I LIKE these! Nice balance, airy sound, not as analytical as the HD598. They surprised me! I could see these being good for competitive gaming without it losing too much musicality. Thumbs up from me.

I went to their musical instruments section and got to try:

Sennheiser HD-25-II. Pretty damn balanced, but I didn't like that the treble was overly smooth for my taste. Wasn't fond of their sound.

AiAiAi TMA-1: People actually think these are pretty? They looked like $20 headphones, and the plastic felt like it. It was ugly and cheap looking (they look much better in pictures than IRL, and I still thought they were ugly.) The sound however was nice. I didn't audition them for too long, but I gotta say the sound was better than the Senn HD25-II to me.

The only ones I'd seriously consider good for gaming out of these, would be the HD558. The rest are music impressions only.

Almost got to try an open box DT1350, but no go.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





indread said:


> I discovered that the newer DSS2's use the [size=small]CVT (Cirrus® Virtualizer Technology) algorithm. Never heard of it.[/size]


 
  From April of 2012.
   
  I'm very interested to hear from someone with a DSS, DSS2, and Mixamp to put them through their paces with a high quality headphone.  I'd consider flipping my DSS2 and getting something else if I had a solid report that it was definitely inferior.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> That sounds very suspicious.  Seems like a read about some scams before where people would ask for money in advance to build amps.  Unless that guy has lots of positive feedback I would be wary.




Faaaaaaaaaaaaa-
I just finished writing a pretty long reply, but my mom ****ed up the network right as I hit "submit." I'm not sure I'm going to be up to re-typing it...

Well, in short, I have been in communication with the builder from the start, I'm basically getting his very first completed desktop amp at cost, because I agreed to write the product description and take nice product photos for his product page. Since I've only paid half so far, and he only gets the marketing goodies after I receive the amp, it really behooves him to come through. I've been in communication with him from the start about progress updates and what would be best in the description. Because he has only sold portable amps and bare PCBs before, he's figuring out the logistics for taking the new project into a new product.

I felt like I needed to light a fire under his seat yesterday. According to his response this morning, we're just waiting for his carpenter to finish my enclosure and 5 more. He said that he would only have the amp up on ebay for purchase after he has enclosures and PCBs on hand, from now on, and of course he would have a batch of 5 completed amps ready when the page goes live. So I'm taking a bit more risk and waiting a longer than anyone after me would.

I do hope it works out... He does have good feedback, and I have talked with pleased others that have no connection to him except that they bought PCBs from him. The amp itself is an upgraded design based on Sijosae's tube hybrid's layout, well regarded and at stock-build reviewed as better than Millet's Starving Student design. The Chinese spin-offs of Sijosae's design, the MUSE, Indeed, and Bravo tube hybrid amps, are also well reviewed, except for their cheap build quality. I noticed that a lot of the parts used in the most extensive mods of these amps are used in the design my builder showed me. The enclosure the builder has described sounds really nice too... I want to share pictures instead of words, but his carpenter is building it to be furniture quality. Think "wife-approved" so it doesn't have to be squirreled away in a basement or garage.

I'll let you guys know if I'm disappointed, or if it's worth the cost (you should know by now I'm being very careful about money, even/especially on things I really want) and I am really pleased. After that, maybe I'll start a new thread for it and get some second opinions.

Carefully copying this to the clipboard, so I don't have to rewrite everything I want to say...
PS my mom DID mess it up again, glad I took the precaution!! :rolleyes:


----------



## Evshrug

kellte2 said:


> From April of 2012.
> 
> I'm very interested to hear from someone with a DSS, DSS2, and Mixamp to put them through their paces with a high quality headphone.  I'd consider flipping my DSS2 and getting something else if I had a solid report that it was definitely inferior.




Well, the trick with that is how unlikely it would be for anyone to own all three (or even two) at the same time. People like Mad, Nameless, and me at my more obsessive/curious moments would be the exception, but we wouldn't keep them forever once we pick a fav, unless forced to.

Also, the 4 channel thing started from the top Amazon review on the DSS2, where the guy posted several updates trying to get a response from TB customer service. A combination of something they said and the website graphic showing only 4 speaker drivers lead him to believe it was only "4.1" channel output. It doesn't really make sense... As Mad said before, the device is fed a 5.1 channel signal, and the processing happens, and down mixes it into binaural sound, 2.0 channels, one for each headphone driver. There's not even a .1 subwoofer to worry about separately! So...

Anyway, enough people have stated that their upgrade didn't sound like an upgrade that I am willing to conclude that the DSS is superior to it's follow-up, even if I don't know exactly why. Can you imagine trying to dig yourself out of the reputation hole if the first review on your product, on one of the world's largest reseller's site, states that it's "just 4.1" surround?

*BTW, for anyone else reading this, I think when Kelite2 said "the center channel is static," he means that while you can adjust the positioning of other speakers, the center stays "static" in it's central position.*


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> *BTW, for anyone else reading this, I think when Kelite2 said "the center channel is static," he means that while you can adjust the positioning of other speakers, the center stays "static" in it's central position.*


 
  That's exactly right.  The virtual center channel is always the center.  The other 4 angles are adjustable through various presets.  I don't know any better, but I've been happy with the DSS2 performance.  It is certainly better than stereo, but I can't speak to its predecessor or its competitors.


----------



## Makiah S

Aww that open Box DT 1350 would have been nice
   
  In addition I like that Head Phone Case... I've got some Cherry Wood sitting in mah shed I'm thinking bout making me a Suit Case for cans! Like the crappy case I got with the Dt 880s but well Nicer and more protective! 
   
  Kinda like a suitcase kinda thing [although that's tottally off topic]
   
  I wish we had Headphone Bars here in the SOuth East US... even CANADA has em... although Canadian money is worth more than the US dollar last time I checked [by 3 US cents] so go figure!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lookie what I found at the Magnolia section at my Bestbuy? I did NOT see these before!


 
   
  Hmmm.... What's the Magnolia section?  Like a closed off higher-end-gear section?  Bestbuy's website says there's on at a nearby store, but I don't remember seeing one before....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's usually where they keep the super expensive TVs and projectors, etc. Almost every BB I've seen has the Magnolia section on back wall, right corner. I had a a geekasm when I saw these and the 90" TV they had... makes my 65" look puny. =/


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The wired Mixamp is almost dead silent. Also, the Recond 3D USB is also silent. The Recon isn't as good as the Dolby Headphone devices though, IMHO.
> If I were in your shoes, I'd spend the money for the wired Mixamp + $15 for the KSC75 for NOW until you can afford a full sized headphone.


 
  so the KSC75 would be recomended over the Sennheiser HD201?  I know your number rating is one point higher, but does the fact that the HD201 is a full-sized headphone give it any advantage over the KSC75 at all?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD201 and the soundstage won't be as big. Also, the HD201 is a torture device after a few minutes. It's pretty uncomfortable. Those pads are horrible. They do have a nice balanced, warmish sound though for $20. I'll take the KSC75 over the HD201 though.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's usually where they keep the super expensive TVs and projectors, etc. Almost every BB I've seen has the Magnolia section on back wall, right corner. I had a a geekasm when I saw these and the 90" TV they had... makes my 65" look puny. =/


 

 Oh snap, I might have to mingle my way on back there some time soon! I wish I'd known about that sooner :[


----------



## Stradbrook

Quote: 





> The DT770 Pro 80s are bass and treble centric cans. The mids are what's sucked out. They also are very sloppy without amping. They're easy to drive in that they get loud easily, but an amp is needed to control that bass a bit. I haven't tried them yet, but I'd seriously consider the Brainwavz HM5 and look for the velours (probably have to order them from the Fischer Audio FA-003 (same headphones).
> 
> Also, I'd look into the Custom Pro Ones which are the little brother of the DT770s (same size and all, but newer, no real need to amp aside from the Mixamp, and have a tuning systems that lets you tweak the bass... it looks VERY interesting). You'd have to order the 770 velours for it though.
> 
> I tend to recommend older headphones, but there is a lot of new stuff that could be awesome for gaming. The HM5 and COP could be ideal.


 
   
   
  Thanks for the reply. I was just about set to pull the trigger on the HM5 until I noticed it had cords coming out of both ears (not sure how I missed that the first time around). That leaves me back with the DT770s or Custom Pro Ones. While looking for another more neutral set, I kept coming back to the SRH840s. Does anyone have experience with the SQ and soundstage for these as they'd pertain to gaming? Again, thanks!


----------



## I95North

chicolom said:


> Well, it HAS to take Dolby Digital 5.1 into the input, because that's all that most consoles will output.  That doesn't mean "Dolby _Headphone"_ is coming out the other end.  If it was using Dolby Headphone, there would definitely be some logos of it on there.
> 
> Someone posted a long time ago the name of the DSP it uses.  It's in this thread somewhere...




Yes that does not mean its Dolby headphone but I never said it was either lol.

That post awhile back was me I posted the dsp that's inside of the dss2..

Not that it matters but that dsp is capable of doing far more technologies in terms of virtual surround sound including Dolby headphone 1,2 and a vast abundance more but it just does Dolby digital. Also not that any of us could actually take advantage of its cababilities that are not implemented into that device either. 

In terms of what's better the mixamp or dss, dss2, recon3D or whatever else is out there in the market pretty much it comes down to what your ears tell you sounds best.. I sold my mixamp some time ago in favor of the dss2 but in no way would i claim its better than dolby headphone, thx or any other virtual tech That's out there.. 

I picked dss2 over the mixamp because it, TO ME does rear positioning alil better than the 2011 mixamp version that I had..

The dss2 with all of it's negative feedback i happen to like over the mixamp. With that being said it all comes down to PERSONAL perception wether it's imagined or real to me or the next guy...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





i95north said:


> With that being said it all comes down to PERSONAL perception wether it's imagined or real to me or the next guy...


 
  Spoken like a prophet man! Everything in Audiophila is personal choice and preception!


----------



## I95North

calpis said:


> you can mod the DSS2? That's kinda cool. Is the opamp in the dss2 socketed or did you have to desolder it off?




its not socketed its smd very tiny. The headphone amp inside of the device

http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/NCP2811-D.PDF


----------



## I95North

Don't ask and i won't tell.
   
   

   
   
   
   
  Yeah i bought the HE400 twice, now i own a 2nd pair and a HD650. I see why all the 650 owners love the HD650  so much. Everything they say about it is true and it does games just as well as if not better than my HE400's my opinion of course..


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Spoken like a prophet man! Everything in Audiophila is personal choice and preception!


 
   
  Thirded. Only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you.
   
  Everyone here has already seen the back-and-forth between me and MLE on CMSS-3D Headphone's viability for PC gaming. I hear all the cues and it sounds very much 3D to me at its best, he thinks it's a crappy stereo upmix. Meanwhile, we both agree that Dolby Headphone is very effective at what it does, even if I think it falls short compared to any game with proper 3D positional audio that CMSS-3D Headphone, Rapture3D, Aureal A3D, etc. can leverage the positional data of to offer more than a virtual 7.1 speaker system's worth of imaging.
   
  I thought before that pretty much all binaural mixing tech based on generic/human population average HRTFs like CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, THX TruStudio Surround, whatever the DSS2 uses, Silent Cinema, etc. would either all work for a given person or not at all, but that's clearly not the case here.
   
  This also extends to headphones, sound signature preferences, etc. People are looking for different things in headphones, and if you're looking for headphone recommendations, it's best to know the preferences of those giving you recommendations so that you get an idea of whether or not what they like is also what you like.


----------



## l00l

I just discovered they sell the Fiio E09K + E17 as a bundle on amazon. Price is € 225 for both, if you buy them seperately it´s like 135 for the E17 and 145 for the E09K. 
  Provided it´s really the E09K (in the description they talk about the E9 and not 9k) would you say that is a good deal and worth it? thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the E17 and E9K. Really clean sound, energetic sound. The E9K is pretty neutral sounding, and quick. The E9K works best with 80ohm and higher. The E9K is dry sounding, preserving clarity all the way up to the treble range. Not the fullest sounding amp I've heard, but its fantastic for the price.

The E17 is lovely. Great DAC, bass and treble controls, and portability if you need an amp on the go. Can't go wrong here. I regret selling it, really.


----------



## l00l

I guess I could use the E9K to dirve the Beyer 990 pro and the E17 to get the treble down a bit then... that would be great!
   
  How would that work connection wise with the mixamp pro that is connected to my xbox/TV/blu ray via coax or optical? thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, actually, I'm not sure the E17 docked to the E9K will be able to use the E17's bass and treble controls for a device plugged into the RCA input, as you have to manually switch the E9K's switch from dock to AUX IN, meaning it no longer takes in the E17's current signal.

If it's the bass/treble control is important for Mixamp gaming, you COULD just plug in from your Mixamp to the E17's Aux in, and then from the E17's headphone jack to the E9K's aux in. This sounds like it's triple amped, and it is. HOWEVER, the E17/E9K uses both amps ANYWAYS when you try to use the E17's bass/treble controls (by switching from the E17's bypass button to go to pre-amp mode). Even if it was docked, you'd still be using both the E17 and E9K's amping... not to mention the Mixamp's. The only difference here is that the E17 can't be docked when you're using the Mixamp. Dock it when you're NOT gaming.

So for you...

Mixamp - E17 - 3.5mm to RCA cable - E9K's Aux In

IF you don't need the bass/treble control when gaming, you can just leave the E17 docked, as you won't be using it at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just got my Galaxy Note II! My ODAC comes in a little later. Christmas came early! Lol... however, I have to cancel the Wii U purchase.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is lovely. Great DAC, bass and treble controls, and portability if you need an amp on the go. Can't go wrong here. I regret selling it, really.


 
  Indeed I want one for my Phone! As I like'd a Seperate DAC and AMP for at home use with 300ohm+ cans
   
  Still though I do want one to use with mah phone as well as with these terribad school pcs :3


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just got my Galaxy Note II! My ODAC comes in a little later. Christmas came early! Lol... however, I have to cancel the Wii U purchase.


 
  Ohh man I would love to get my hands on Note II, unfortunately I'm only half way through my contract with Verizon. I really can't complain about my Galaxy Nexus it has been a really good phone except for maybe the battery life, kind of inevitable with a smart phone. Maybe I'll see what I can get for my GN when/if Verizon announces their release date and price (off contract) for the Note II. 
   
  I would love to hear your impressions of the music capabilities of the Note II, I have no idea what audio chipset it has.


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> Indeed I want one for my Phone! As I like'd a Seperate DAC and AMP for at home use with 300ohm+ cans
> 
> Still though I do want one to use with mah phone as well as with these terribad school pcs :3




You know that the E17's DAC feature can't be used with phones, right? But the amp is good, get a nice line-out signal from your phone into the E17 and you should see improvement 


I95North,
It has occurred to me that the different surround "positions" for the DSS2 may be a real benefit, in light of recent conversations reiterating how HTRFs vary from person to person. Also, I saw more recent comments on a listen between the DSS & DSS2, they said the DSS was more "echoey" and possibly better suited for movies, while the tighter positioning accuracy and smaller sense of soundstage sounded more natural and was preferred for action games (like FPS, I assume). Silent Cinema echoes a bit too, but I found I preferred the THX TSP because it doesn't echo, relatively, and not every environment is going to create an echo or sound distant. Also, for me, back-to-front pans sounded more realistic (eg chopper cutscene or space dogfight mission in Reach). It's nice to have a choice, but I feel like the Recon3D in THX TSP mode satisfies my tastes.

Mad,
Love how you go from saying you're gonna be tight on money and selling off your HiFiman HE400 and E17 amp, to flipping an E9k and buying an expensive new amp, DAC, and smartphone. I know it isn't like how it sounds, that your new purchases are long-term and will save you money from buying a succession of inferior items, it just sounds funny when you ignore the reasons. Anyway, testing out new equipment is what has made this guide and thread so great! I just think these companies ought to pay YOU to increase exposure to their products, donuts you agree? 

Nameless,
Did you make those BF2 videos with X-FI? I like the channel-less full surround processing offered by the X-Fi in theory, but I had a hard time getting a good sense of how the positioning works from the short BF2 clips. I think the CoD2 multiplayer video would be a better example for me, as there is more context with everything panning around rather than just a sound emitting from one position. The beginning of the BF2 video, with the tones playing from the different speaker positions, actually hurts my ears... Too much treble out of my iPad/E5 on my Q701s! Could you help me find the CoD2 video? Perhaps I should try to figure out how I could make a surround-enabled video through THX TSP!
Also, it doesn't really make me feel better knowing you are in a similar position as me regarding money. We both obviously have a lot of skills and potential value, and I think you also should be paid for what you do!

Off Topic: just got offered a job, $10.50/hr plus bonuses for selling featured items, 40 hrs a week, full benefits including dental, paid vacation days, 401k, at FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's). Sound good?


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





evshrug said:


>





> I95North,
> It has occurred to me that the different surround "positions" for the DSS2 may be a real benefit, in light of recent conversations reiterating how HTRFs vary from person to person. Also, I saw more recent comments on a listen between the DSS & DSS2, they said the DSS was more "echoey" and possibly better suited for movies, while the tighter positioning accuracy and smaller sense of soundstage sounded more natural and was preferred for action games (like FPS, I assume). Silent Cinema echoes a bit too, but I found I preferred the THX TSP because it doesn't echo, relatively, and not every environment is going to create an echo or sound distant. Also, for me, back-to-front pans sounded more realistic (eg chopper cutscene or space dogfight mission in Reach). It's nice to have a choice, but I feel like the Recon3D in THX TSP mode satisfies my tastes.


 
  Hey the recon is no sloutch i switch back n fourth between the DSS2 and recon but the dss1 is really no differnt in terms of technologies from the mixamp at all.  They both share the same chip from freescale ,"DSP56374" along with the gamecom777 pc headset and quite a few others... In the end go with whatever floats your boat.
   
  Upon  my first audition of the recon i thought wow this thing sucks but because of some user error i felt that way at first. After almost giving up on the thing and finding out that its actually very good in thx mode ONLY with a few parameters  turned off and wow i like it just as much as the dss2. The mixamp works for my ears also but i do feel and this is my opinion only that both the recon3D and the dss2 has the edge in positional rear cues and to boot they are both tweakable one more so than the other.
   
  Pretty much you can not go wrong with any of the decoders that's out now!, really its allways go with whats best for you.


----------



## RayleighSilvers

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> AKG K550: Very sexy. Quite comfy for a pleather padded headphone. Sound? Where is the LIFE? I haven't heard a soulless headphone like this... the bass was terribly weak, and everything felt too sterile and dry. Didn't like them one bit. Don't know why this was so popular, to be honest. They were as inviting as a dentist appointment. The Q701 is INFINITELY better than these. Shame on those who called them a closed Q701. That's an absolute insult to the Q701, even when the Q701 is ampless.
> HD558: Hmm! I have to say... I LIKE these! Nice balance, airy sound, not as analytical as the HD598. They surprised me! I could see these being good for competitive gaming without it losing too much musicality. Thumbs up from me.


 
   
  Does the Q701 have more bass than the K501? 
   
  Also when I first auditioned the HD558, I thought the sound signature was appealing. It's only when I owned it If found it to be very dull. Sucked the life out of my music, kinda like how you described the K550. For gaming the sound was too "thick". Must be that veil people keep mentioning. I didn't find them that airy. They were my first audiophile headphones though, so they probably failed because my expectations were unreasonable. If you ever get to try them at home I'd be very interested to read your review.
   
  Agree about the AT wings, but it's only a problem with the ART series as far as I can tell. The AD900 I had felt brilliant.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You know that the E17's DAC feature can't be used with phones, right? But the amp is good, get a nice line-out signal from your phone into the E17 and you should see improvement


 
  ... FACE PALM
   
  I have no idea how to to that, as I have a Android phone... although maybe there's an app I can use for a Clean Out signel... who knows!
   
  Still for a Pure Amp... yea the E17 sounds like a good idea <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DAC is for digital sources. USB, optical outs, coaxial outs. THAT'S IT. Anything using a standard audio cable RCA or 3.5mm, is analog already.

evshrug, yes... my logic in terms of purchases does not exist. I have no logic. I'm just extremely terrible when it comes to impulse buys. I admit it. 

And GET THAT JOB!

Lol, the T-mobile reps offered me a job at the store since I knew more about the phones than they did. XD I told them I'm a huge tech geek, and they sure did believe me after I schooled them. However, phones are one of my weakest areas of expertise, so I was like 'nah, that's ok'. Lol. I wouldn't be a good sales rep. I don't do well being on the spot like that. I'm too laid back, which is why I like working at nights, where I don't have to deal with a lot, lol.



In other news:

So I JUST plugged in the ODAC. I dunno if it's just me, but it sounds warmer and fuller sounding than I remember the E17 sounding. The ODAC is supposed to be dead neutral, so I expected dry and analytical. Quite surprised. However, my memory for DAC's sound is horrible, so I'm just making an assumption.

It sounds lovely though.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Hey the recon is no sloutch i switch back n fourth between the DSS2 and recon but the dss1 is really no differnt in terms of technologies from the mixamp at all.  They both share the same chip from freescale ,"DSP56374" along with the gamecom777 pc headset and quite a few others... In the end go with whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Upon  my first audition of the recon i thought wow this thing sucks but because of some user error i felt that way at first. After almost giving up on the thing and finding out that its actually very good in thx mode ONLY with a few parameters  turned off and wow i like it just as much as the dss2. The mixamp works for my ears also but i do feel and this is my opinion only that both the recon3D and the dss2 has the edge in positional rear cues and to boot they are both tweakable one more so than the other.
> 
> Pretty much you can not go wrong with any of the decoders that's out now!, really its allways go with whats best for you.


 
  Do you have a positional preference for the DSS2?  I have always used #3, but I'm curious if that is also your choice...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless the 600ohm improves in bass presence once I get my SA-31 (hoping all that power really brings it out). Still, the mids on the 600ohm are considerably more forward than the 250.

Then... I'm considering getting the HE-4 again... and directly comparing, as I felt the HE-4 to be a more refined 880/990 hybrid, though not sure where bass presence stands. Sigh.... in either case, the 250ohm is a winner in my book. The 600ohm is a bit too balanced for me. Not as fun as I remembered of my older ones, now that I have a chance to hear the 250ohm. I may even return the 250ohm and get the 990 Pros new.

My SA-31 is still in Hong Kong. URGH!


----------



## ronswanson

Hmm maybe I should consider getting the dss2 + CAL? That would keep me somewhat in my budget - well slightly over but OK. The dss2+ad700 is also another option, but I'd be sometimes watching movies with them, so I probably need a more well rounded headphone.

I was just going to order the mix amp + ksC75 to tie me over until I can upgrade the headphones. Not sure now.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DAC is for digital sources. USB, optical outs, coaxial outs. THAT'S IT. Anything using a standard audio cable RCA or 3.5mm, is analog already.
> evshrug, yes... my logic in terms of purchases does not exist. I have no logic. I'm just extremely terrible when it comes to impulse buys. I admit it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I plan to, and alas I was almost considering the E17 to use a a DAC with a 3.5mm, don't know why I though it would work... that being said I do need to get an optical or coaxial out on my PC... is Spdif optical or Coaxial... as I need to find the bracket for the pins on my mobo


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just got my Galaxy Note II! My ODAC comes in a little later. Christmas came early! Lol... however, I have to cancel the Wii U purchase.


 
   
  I want a Galaxy Note II so badly. It's pretty much everything I wanted out of older devices like the Dell Axim X50V and HP iPAQ hx4700 I had years ago, except the technology wasn't there yet.
   
  Fortunately, I'm not on a contract. Unfortunately, I can't afford the Note II or even the older GT-N7000, subsidized or not. Maybe if I had a better job...
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> Did you make those BF2 videos with X-FI? I like the channel-less full surround processing offered by the X-Fi in theory, but I had a hard time getting a good sense of how the positioning works from the short BF2 clips. I think the CoD2 multiplayer video would be a better example for me, as there is more context with everything panning around rather than just a sound emitting from one position. The beginning of the BF2 video, with the tones playing from the different speaker positions, actually hurts my ears... Too much treble out of my iPad/E5 on my Q701s! Could you help me find the CoD2 video? Perhaps I should try to figure out how I could make a surround-enabled video through THX TSP!
> Also, it doesn't really make me feel better knowing you are in a similar position as me regarding money. We both obviously have a lot of skills and potential value, and I think you also should be paid for what you do!
> Off Topic: just got offered a job, $10.50/hr plus bonuses for selling featured items, 40 hrs a week, full benefits including dental, paid vacation days, 401k, at FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's). Sound good?


 
   
  I didn't make either video, and I don't know what happened to break the CoD2 video, but it's fixed now. Here's a link back to my post, for your convenience.
   
  As for the job, I'd certainly take it, even if it means a lot less free time in exchange for a lot more money (and actual benefits!). Then again, I do feel a bit frustrated in that for all my technical expertise, nobody would be willing to hire me if there isn't some sort of A+ certification attached, which I haven't bothered to pursue just yet.
   
  The treble from the BF2 demonstration video's test tones doesn't hurt my ears at all, and Stax Lambdas have a reputation for being bright, especially if that's what's in the source to begin with. Then again, maybe it's just because I can't really hear past 15-16 KHz. (Seriously, for all this pursuing high-end electrostatic audiophile gear, I'll have to face the hard reality that the real bottleneck in my audio systems are the two imperfect ears in my head.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That cod video sounded decent, but rear cues are still lacking to me, as in non-existent. Front and sides are good though.


----------



## JONvincible

Quote: 





upsidedownace said:


> Just got a replacement pair of the new A40s...Good news! They no longer cut out when the cord gets tugged to the side! Guess I got a faulty pair. I'm fairly happy with them. They don't blow my mind with the quality of them, though. It wasn't anything like my first listening experience with my M50s
> 
> I also noticed the Mixamp produces a lot of hiss if you push the volume past 60%. I'm guessing this is normal? I don't have much experience with the old Mixamp. It sounds a lot like my Turtle Beach hiss, but not quite as loud. You don't hear it once you get into the action.
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's a real bummer about the Mixamp hiss. As others have stated and that I can also report, there is no hiss on my 2009 Astro Mixamp. There is a very slight "hum" if the audio is cranked all the way, and it's even more noticeable if you turn the mixer all the way over to "GAME". I was looking to upgrade in the near future to the 2013 Mixamp, but the hiss might be a deal-breaker. I played with the 2013 Astro A40 + Mixamp combo at the Best Buy in-store display, and I noticed the quality of materials used in the A40s are not what they used to be. I have the 2009 A40s, and they are truly one of the most comfortable headphones/sets I've tried. They clamp well enough to not fall off of your head, but light enough that they truly disappear during lengthy listening sessions.
   
  As far as a Mixamp, I feel an urgency to purchase the pre-2013 Mixamp Pro off eBay before they go extinct. The main functionality I'd like over the 2009 Mixamp is the voice chat over USB. The 2009 Mixamp doesn't offer this. The build quality is also much better on the Mixamp Pro versus the version I have.
   
  Is the pre-2013 Mixamp Pro the way to go? Should I take a plunge on the monoprice Dolby Headphone unit I've seen mentioned in the past few pages? Any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## JONvincible

I was searching around on eBay and found this auction for the Mixamp Pro. Does this look legit? Or is this some sort of knock-off version? One of the pictures shows the back of the unit, and the little door/flap is missing for the toslink input. Others have mentioned that this piece is prone to breakage, but the seller claims these units are new.
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/120997609987?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c2c050203


----------



## calpis

I've looked at that auction before and passed on it. The units come from china with no cables. Buying that and adding on the cost of cables brings it very very close to actual retail price. I would look around some more for a used unit on either ebay or craigslist that comes with the cables.


----------



## JONvincible

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I've looked at that auction before and passed on it. The units come from china with no cables. Buying that and adding on the cost of cables brings it very very close to actual retail price. I would look around some more for a used unit on either ebay or craigslist that comes with the cables.


 
   
  I don't need the cables since the 2009 Astro Mixamp came with everything I need. If these units are in fact new, I'd rather get a bare bones new version than take my chances with a used one.


----------



## HalidePisces

jonvincible said:


> I was searching around on eBay and found this auction for the Mixamp Pro. Does this look legit? Or is this some sort of knock-off version? One of the pictures shows the back of the unit, and the little door/flap is missing for the toslink input. Others have mentioned that this piece is prone to breakage, but the seller claims these units are new.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/120997609987?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c2c050203




I have a 2011 Mixamp and the TOSLINK port has a small detachable rubber plug covering it rather than the standard flap door. I took off the plug on my Mixamp and the TOSLINK port matches the picture. That said, it probably doesn't come with the plug. I don't know how much of a good idea it is to leave a TOSLINK port exposed since they're usually covered. It may be due to light or dust sensitivity reasons... but I have no idea.


----------



## JONvincible

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I have a 2011 Mixamp and the TOSLINK port has a small detachable rubber plug covering it rather than the standard flap door. I took off the plug on my Mixamp and the TOSLINK port matches the picture. That said, it probably doesn't come with the plug. I don't know how much of a good idea it is to leave a TOSLINK port exposed since they're usually covered. It may be due to light or dust sensitivity reasons... but I have no idea.


 
   
  Oh interesting. I wonder if they took into account the reports of breakages and replaced the flap with the rubber cover for that reason. Thanks for the info.


----------



## HalidePisces

jonvincible said:


> Oh interesting. I wonder if they took into account the reports of breakages and replaced the flap with the rubber cover for that reason. Thanks for the info.




I kinda prefer the flap door. One less thing to keep track of when you're using the optical port.

Was it just shoddy construction on the Mixamp that caused the breakage? The flap door is ubiquitous whether it be on a sound card or receiver or PlayStation 2. I've never heard of problems with the flap breaking off on them. Except for maybe the people who didn't take the protective tip off their cables when they were trying to insert it. Or was the Mixamp optical port just too tight?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> I have a 2011 Mixamp and the TOSLINK port has a small detachable rubber plug covering it rather than the standard flap door. I took off the plug on my Mixamp and the TOSLINK port matches the picture. That said, it probably doesn't come with the plug. I don't know how much of a good idea it is to leave a TOSLINK port exposed since they're usually covered. It may be due to light or dust sensitivity reasons... but I have no idea.


 
  You know what, I have no Idea still what the heck an Mixamp is... aboviosuly it's an Amp but is it another DIY'r creation being sold to the ENTIRE world?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my SA-31 came in. Looks like it gave the 600ohm the extra push I wanted.

It's not a night and day difference (think less than 10%), but it has more body than the E9K, and it helped the 600ohm DT990s fill out the way I wanted them to.

All this shows me is that don't expect SS amps to vary wildly in sound. A subtle eq of anything will make more of a difference.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> You know what, I have no Idea still what the heck an Mixamp is... aboviosuly it's an Amp but is it another DIY'r creation being sold to the ENTIRE world?



 first page.
 It's a virtual surround sound processor, made by Astro Gaming, recently aquired by Skullcandy.
  
 Mad,
 Is the SA-31 purely an SS amp, or a tube-hybrid like the Shiit Lyr you had before? Do you think that the SA-31 brought out the bass enough n the 600 ohm DT990 like you had hoped? Like I'd say the Q701 is 10% different from the AD700, but I value the difference 60% more enjoyable.


I find it fascinating that I have to turn my mom's receiver (not mine, which is packed in a box) up to -10dB to get a normal listening volume on my Q701. That's near the receiver's max setting, and some background hiss is audible. Sounds pretty good otherwise, though.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Like I'd say the Q701 is 10% different from the AD700, but I value the difference 60% more enjoyable.


 
   
  LOL, only 10% difference between Q701 and AD700?  That's pretty conservative.
   
  I'd say 10% difference is more like the AD900/AD700 or K702/Q701.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> LOL, only 10% difference between Q701 and AD700?  That's pretty conservative.
> 
> I'd say 10% difference is more like the AD900/AD700 or K702/Q701.


 
  Well, when you count that they are both headphones and both make sounds... overall I think they're mostly similar except for the better bass preference and fit difference. These things are very unscientific, that's why this was the first time I put an arbitrary number to it


----------



## I95North

mad lust envy said:


> So my SA-31 came in. Looks like it gave the 600ohm the extra push I wanted.
> It's not a night and day difference (think less than 10%), but it has more body than the E9K, and it helped the 600ohm DT990s fill out the way I wanted them to.
> All this shows me is that don't expect SS amps to vary wildly in sound. A subtle eq of anything will make more of a difference.




I'm not sure if you sent the 250 ohms back or not but if not which of the two headsets do you like best with the more powerful amp??.. 

Also don't get rid of the amp it's always better to have more power than not enough. Obviously with more than enough power and a volume knob of course you can control the power but it sucks to not have enough and have to make yet another purchase because the volume knob came up short..

Nice amp btw..


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Help a noob out here. 
   
  I want to get the DT770 Pros, and I was going to get the 80 ohm version (the one that is covered here), but I found the 250 ohm version for cheaper. How good is the 250 ohm version for gaming/music? I'm going to be using it for listening to music on my Galaxy S2, playing TF2 and listening to music on my Dell Latitude XT3, and playing games on my Xbox 360. Do I need an amp? I think I will, I'm not sure (I want to use Dolby Headphone when I'm gaming). If I do, I'd like to keep the price well down, as I'm maxing out my budget for these. Recommendations are welcome. 
   
  Also, is it possible to turn down the bass for gaming, and crank it up for music?


----------



## Evshrug

daanalthenoob said:


> Help a noob out here.
> 
> I want to get the DT770 Pros, and I was going to get the 80 ohm version (the one that is covered here), but I found the 250 ohm version for cheaper. How good is the 250 ohm version for gaming/music? I'm going to be using it for listening to music on my Galaxy S2, playing TF2 and listening to music on my Dell Latitude XT3, and playing games on my Xbox 360. Do I need an amp? I think I will, I'm not sure (I want to use Dolby Headphone when I'm gaming). If I do, I'd like to keep the price well down, as I'm maxing out my budget for these. Recommendations are welcome.
> 
> Also, is it possible to turn down the bass for gaming, and crank it up for music?




Both will probably benefit from an amp... A FiiO E9k would power either plenty, and the FiiO E11 would probably do an adaquate job as well. MLE knows this better than me. If you already have a receiver for your home theater, that will probably be an adaquate amp as well... I don't think the DT770 is the kind of headphone you want to wear while walking down the street anyway.

It is possible to turn down bass, IMO it hurts a SQ less than boosting it, but you'll need an amp or processor that'll offer an equalizer setting for reduced bass... not very common. The Recon3D has a full 12-band graphical equalizer you can adjust from your PC, but FWIR I think only the THX TruStudio Pro settings can be saved and used with an Xbox360. So you could reduce the bass for TF2 and any other computer games you play, but I'm not sure that carries over to the console.

If you want to use Dolby Headphone or another virtual surround processor, that will be another $70-$140 buying new to budget for. Mad Lust Envy pointed out a little processor from Monoprice that isn't too expensive yet shows promise.

I got by for a long time with just a nice headphone playing in standard stereo. You could choose to max out your budget on nice, long term headphones and add a surround processor or amp later, or you could also get cheap-but-cheerful headphones plus a processor to get most of the full effect, upgrade your headphone later. If you're considering the 2nd route, you can take a chance on a used Turtle Beach DSS on eBay (I've read several people say the DSS is good, but has a background hiss), or PM Head-Fi'er Nameless PFG about buying his barely used Recon3D off him, which is what I use and enjoy. Koss KSC 75 are great for their very low price, and work pretty well with virtual surround processing (I've borrowed the KSC75 I bought for my GF several times to use with my Recon3D).

Good Luck have fun!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is a big difference between the 770 Pro 80 and 250. The Pro 80 has a lot more bass. The 250 is known to be pretty balanced and is basically identical to the Premium 250 with more clamp. The Pro 80 is the only one known to have its own sound signature, in that its curve is different. 

I cant speak of the Pro 250, but the 80 ohm is the easiest Beyer to drive out of all I've used. They still need an amp unless you like your bass extra sloppy.


----------



## Evshrug

By the way MLE,
Are you of the opinion that the Dolby Headphone vs CMSS3D YouTube video in Crysis 2 is not representative of DH in general? DH sounded a lot like Yamaha's silent cinema to me in that vid, CMSS3D a little less "3D" but more natural and less like the environment is always a living room-sized concrete cell (with a bigger subwoofer) 

Btw DH fit the atmosphere of Bioshock perfectly!

Chicolom,
Yeah, I know, weird to reply via an edit in a post before yours, but oh well...
Positioning was indeed believable for both, though I thought CMSS3D didn't echo as much nor sound as artificial. Things did seem more weighty in DH though. And I'm not saying DH is definitively echoey, though if anyone else thinks it usually IS pretty distinctly twice-played sounds, I would be interested to hear it.

I haven't heard SC in like a month, the only impressions I remember was that reflections/echos were apparent, and the Recon3D sounds more refined and my preference.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> By the way MLE,
> Are you of the opinion that the Dolby Headphone vs CMSS3D YouTube video in Crysis 2 is not representative of DH in general? DH sounded a lot like Yamaha's silent cinema to me in that vid, CMSS3D a little less "3D" but more natural and less like the environment is always a living room-sized *concrete cell* (with a bigger subwoofer)


 
   
  Not really, because Crysis 2 is naturally an abnormally echoey game.  I've played through Crysis 2 several times, and it's just an echoey game (more than most).  Dolby headphone does add a little of it's own echo, but what your hearing for the most part in that demo is Crysis 2's default echo - so that part isn't representative. 
   
  The positioning seemed OK though.
   
  I've used silent cinema in the past, and the positioning seemed lacking compared to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Crysis vid was a horrible demo for DH. Sounded like dh room 20 STADIUM with all that reverb. No, avoid linking DH with that vid.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol no prob, I thought it was a little unusual.

Edit: actually, I got the link/associate meaning in my head, so it made sense to me.

I bought a phone that slides open so you get a landscape physical keyboard because I thought it would be the best thing and much faster. I actually hate it, always use T9 unless it's a more esoteric word the phone doesn't know how to spell. Having to use two hands on a phone is a bother in my experience. Or is the Note II a small tablet?

I have a wireless keyboard for my iPad, it's very thin and light yet still I rarely bother carrying it around.

Uh... GAMES! SURROUND SOUND! THREAD RELEVANT WORDS!

Goodnight XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I meant to say associate, not link. That sounded better in my head. 

My Note II is hella fast.

I just hate not having a physical qwerty, so I wont be replying as much... until someone makes a qwerty phone cover, like they did with the galaxy tabs.


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Both will probably benefit from an amp... A FiiO E9k would power either plenty, and the FiiO E11 would probably do an adaquate job as well. MLE knows this better than me. If you already have a receiver for your home theater, that will probably be an adaquate amp as well... I don't think the DT770 is the kind of headphone you want to wear while walking down the street anyway.
> It is possible to turn down bass, IMO it hurts a SQ less than boosting it, but you'll need an amp or processor that'll offer an equalizer setting for reduced bass... not very common. The Recon3D has a full 12-band graphical equalizer you can adjust from your PC, but FWIR I think only the THX TruStudio Pro settings can be saved and used with an Xbox360. So you could reduce the bass for TF2 and any other computer games you play, but I'm not sure that carries over to the console.
> If you want to use Dolby Headphone or another virtual surround processor, that will be another $70-$140 buying new to budget for. Mad Lust Envy pointed out a little processor from Monoprice that isn't too expensive yet shows promise.
> I got by for a long time with just a nice headphone playing in standard stereo. You could choose to max out your budget on nice, long term headphones and add a surround processor or amp later, or you could also get cheap-but-cheerful headphones plus a processor to get most of the full effect, upgrade your headphone later. If you're considering the 2nd route, you can take a chance on a used Turtle Beach DSS on eBay (I've read several people say the DSS is good, but has a background hiss), or PM Head-Fi'er Nameless PFG about buying his barely used Recon3D off him, which is what I use and enjoy. Koss KSC 75 are great for their very low price, and work pretty well with virtual surround processing (I've borrowed the KSC75 I bought for my GF several times to use with my Recon3D).
> Good Luck have fun!


 
  OK. I'm thinking of not bothering with that "turn down the bass" thing before, because it seems like there'll be quite an investment here if I do. Alrighty, is there something cheap and portable that can run Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360 and PC, that I can also use with my phone? 
   
  I thinking I'm going to get an amp/processor later on, because I rather need some decent headphones. I do have a receiver for my home theater, it's a Yamaha RX-V657. Will that do?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I constantly mention the Creative Aurvana Live as the cheaper, easily driven alternative to the DT770 Pro 80.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Sorry for replying so late...

Here's my response of the SA-31 vs E9K... and BTW, the SA-31 is a pure SS-amp.



> *Ok, so my test for warm 1 and warm 2 have been directly vs the E9K.
> 
> The SA-31 (with no warmth jumpers) and E9K are close in tonality, with the E9K being just a smidge brighter.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I just hate not having a physical qwerty, so I wont be replying as much... until someone makes a qwerty phone cover, like they did with the galaxy tabs.


 
  Try some of the different keyboard apps that are out there you might find one that works better for you. I enjoyed Swype for a time and have actually been thinking of trying it out again. Currently I'm using Swiftkey 3 and find it to be a great keyboard for my Galaxy Nexus. 
   
  Don't forget Voice-to-text, that works surprisingly well on android these days. You  just have to make sure to speak clearly and talk in complete sentences


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You replied 20 seconds after me, lol.

Anyways, my problem isn't the on screen keyboard. They ALL suck for me. I really crave the tactile feel of physical buttons. I'm not a touchscreen kind of guy (hate it, really).

I have used Swype and it's decent, but I prefer just pressing the keys. Voice to text does work well, but I don't see myself using that a lot, especially when there are people around.





To update from the last post, yes, the SA-31 with warmth jumpers all in, really add all I wanted from the DT990/600. It's not a big difference, but it's enough.

I would say the DT990/250 off the E9K has the most bass presence (but least control) out of all the combinations today (by a hair). However, the refinement and less edge in treble of the SA-31 + DT990/600 wins out.

Out of the E9K, the 250 has noticeably more bass than the 600. Out of the SA-31, that gap becomes smaller, to the point that I can't tell the bass presence apart when quick-swapping from the E9K/250 to the SA-31/600.

I'm gonna pack up the DT990/250 and E9K today. I've heard enough...

Am I gonna keep the 600ohm? Probably not, as Amazon is selling them Like New for $50 less than I paid. Since I'm within my return window, I'll save some money by getting another pair. Unless they wanna just refund me that price difference.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm gonna pack up the DT990/250 and E9K today. I've heard enough...


 
  I'd love to buy that off of you <3, but alas I'm going to be broke Till Juanary so if you wouldn't mind saving it till then [and selling to ME] I'd be a happy patatoe!
   
  Also for Digital Sound Processors I like  SRS Audio Sand Box 10 for a LONG time, but I'm sure Mixamp and DH are better, seeing as SRS AUdio Sandbox is a little old and well cheap and well also a easy interwebs snatch to xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I'm getting a full refund (minus the $6 or so from shipping fees Amazon charges)/ if I sold it to you, I'm sure you'd want it for a lot more than $12 cheaper than they go for on Amazon. XD


The differences between the SA-31 and E9K were more obvious on the KSC35. The SA-31 was considerably warmer.

I guess warm 2 may be a bit much for warmer sounding headphones like the KSC35. I preferred it off the E9K, and the E9K isn't technically a proper match for it due to high output impedance. I think the jumper settings are headphone by headphone basis. You'd do fine with no jumpers at all for all headphones, but some headphones can benefit from extra warmth, and some can be impacted negatively. So all in all, if you're lazy, stick to no jumpers. If you wanna tweak per headphone, leave the top unscrewed for easy jumper switching. 

I doubt many of you would spend over $500 for an amp anyways, lol.

It does take the edge off the 990's treble just a bit though, which makes it very awesome for that particular headphone.

Since I'm returning the DT990/250 and E9K... In went and ordered the HE-4.

Just... trust me. h34r:


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I'm getting a full refund (minus the $6 or so from shipping fees Amazon charges)/ if I sold it to you, I'm sure you'd want it for a lot more than $12 cheaper than they go for on Amazon. XD
> I doubt many of you would spend over $500 for an amp anyways, lol.
> It does take the edge off the 990's treble just a bit though, which makes it very awesome for that particular headphone.
> Since I'm returning the DT990/250 and E9K... In went and ordered the HE-4.
> Just... trust me.


 
  :[ but but I WANT moar feed back on HEad fi, and trust me... I'd pay $500 for an amp, seeing as i JUST found the native Spdif output bracket on my Mobo I fully intened to use it! Heck my mobo has native 96k sampling out and support 192k sampling, so it's not the BEST but that Spdif needs to be pair with an idvidual DAC and AMP and then some Dt 880 600 ohms and a HE-500!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno why you'd want both. The HE500 should do everything the DT880 does and then some...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dunno why you'd want both. The HE500 should do everything the DT880 does and then some...


 
  Exactly, going to get the Dt 880 first then the HE-500 and I like to Collect Headphones... so at some Point I might build a Nice Wooden Case to put them in... living with my parents so in the next year I want to either convert our spare room into a study [where le Headphones will go] or move out!
   
  But I like ym 250 ohms for portable and the 600 are well half the price of the HE-500, but I like to have extra cans on hand. Gives me a chance to share my un needed ones with new Audiophiles OR let's me share my music with a friend! [I ofc get the better cans xD]


----------



## Evshrug

daanalthenoob said:


> OK. I'm thinking of not bothering with that "turn down the bass" thing before, because it seems like there'll be quite an investment here if I do. Alrighty, is there something cheap and portable that can run Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360 and PC, that I can also use with my phone?
> 
> I thinking I'm going to get an amp/processor later on, because I rather need some decent headphones. I do have a receiver for my home theater, it's a Yamaha RX-V657. Will that do?




Hey! That Yamaha receiver is plenty amp, AND it has it's own headphone surround processor. If you look in the manual, it's called Silent Cinema. You just have to enable one of the sound DSPs, I liked "action movie" best, YMMV, but it'll at least give you an idea about what virtual surround is like. Play around with the different DSPs to see which you like best. You can also boost/reduce treble and bass on the receiver 

You might end up preferring a different surround processor, but Silent Cinema is definitely worth checking out and will get you most of the way there... and you already own it! That's a pretty nice receiver, IIRC.

Cheap headphone for all purposes & portability = Koss KSC75. I believe I already recommended it. It's not the most exotic looking or boutique, BUT it delivers where it counts. BY FAR better than any earbuds, even Yuin, and holds up against $60-$70 headphones. Just try that first, and if you like gaming/music with headphones, get a "reference" headphone to use at home with a good return policy, in case you don't love it. That's how Mad got started, and I could've saved money if I had done that.

Next steps, consider JVC HA-RX900 with Dynamat added inside the earcups to tighten up bass, Creative Aurvana Live!, Grado/Alessandro headphones (grados are great rock cans, Alessandro's are more balanced & respond well to MS1000 mod), Takstar, DT770, DT990/Q701 (equally good but different signature emphasis, different things to love), and up up and away!


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> Exactly, going to get the Dt 880 first then the HE-500 and I like to Collect Headphones... so at some Point I might build a Nice Wooden Case to put them in... living with my parents so in the next year I want to either convert our spare room into a study [where le Headphones will go] or move out!
> 
> But I like ym 250 ohms for portable and the 600 are well half the price of the HE-500, but I like to have extra cans on hand. Gives me a chance to share my un needed ones with new Audiophiles OR let's me share my music with a friend! [I ofc get the better cans xD]




Uh, if you want to use the rather bulky-sized DT880 250ohm headphone _portably,_ you're gonna want the powerful new FiiO E12 coming nov/dec, or something from Ray Samuel Audio. You'll be well out of the norm and into niche requirements at that point.

Also, from experience... You can't live with your parents forever, eventually they're going to be annoyed with paying your expenses while you make un-frugal purchases, and living on your own you'll probably have a whole different perspective on budget... Like buy nice headphones, or continue saving up for a new car, or fixing the toilet, or a comfortable chair, or making your place look nice so your lady friends will want to come over...

Think about it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





daanalthenoob said:


> OK. I'm thinking of not bothering with that "turn down the bass" thing before, because it seems like there'll be quite an investment here if I do. Alrighty, is there something cheap and portable that can run Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360 and PC, that I can also use with my phone?
> 
> I thinking I'm going to get an amp/processor later on, because I rather need some decent headphones. I do have a receiver for my home theater, it's a Yamaha RX-V657. Will that do?


 
  Yamaha, my preferred brand, with Silent Cinema headphone surround sound
  The RX-V657 comes with Dolby Digital and DTS
  Just run S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) from your Xbox and PC to the Yamaha.
  Make sure your xBox and PC are set to S/PDIF 5.1 (or 6-channel) output.
  Would need to have enable DDL (Dolby Digital live) or DTS-connect, on the XBox or PC, which ever they use.


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> Yamaha, my preferred brand, with Silent Cinema headphone surround sound
> The RX-V657 comes with Dolby Digital and DTS
> Just run S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) from your Xbox and PC to the Yamaha.
> Make sure your xBox and PC are set to S/PDIF 5.1 (or 6-channel) output.
> Would need to have enable DDL (Dolby Digital live) or DTS-connect, on the XBox or PC, which ever they use.



HDMI works perfectly too, more convenient... unless you want your PC hooked up to a separate monitor. I just switch HDMI cables, lol!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> HDMI works perfectly too, more convenient... unless you want your PC hooked up to a separate monitor. I just switch HDMI cables, lol!


 
  The Yamaha RX-V657 is pre-HDMI. but lots of S/PDIF inputs.


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I constantly mention the Creative Aurvana Live as the cheaper, easily driven alternative to the DT770 Pro 80.


 
  The problem with the CAL! is that in the review, MLE said that it wouldn't be very comfortable for those who don't like to feel their ears pressing against the driver padding. I hate that to no end. I can't stand it. Which is why I'm going with the DT770 Pro 250. God, I wish I could find the Pro 80's for cheaper.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





daanalthenoob said:


> The problem with the CAL! is that in the review, MLE said that it wouldn't be very comfortable for those who don't like to feel their ears pressing against the driver padding. I hate that to no end. I can't stand it. Which is why I'm going with the DT770 Pro 250. God, I wish I could find the Pro 80's for cheaper.


 
  Takstar Pro 80 (60-Ohm) headphones, $88 on eBay, Chinese knock off of the DT770s


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey! That Yamaha receiver is plenty amp, AND it has it's own headphone surround processor. If you look in the manual, it's called Silent Cinema. You just have to enable one of the sound DSPs, I liked "action movie" best, YMMV, but it'll at least give you an idea about what virtual surround is like. Play around with the different DSPs to see which you like best. You can also boost/reduce treble and bass on the receiver
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet. My family have a habit of getting stuff they think is good without looking at reviews, so good thing they lucked out on the audio system. No Bose here.
   
  Now, when I'm listening to music at home and playing Xbox, I'll just use my receiver, and then when I'm on the go, I'll get an amp that's nice, cheap and portable. I haven't listened to anything better than Skullcandy Mix Masters before, but I think I've got the bug!


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Takstar Pro 80 (60-Ohm) headphones, $88 on eBay, Chinese knock off of the DT770s


 
  They're probably good, but when I'm wearing it at school and someone asks "What the hell are those? Beats are better.", and I reply "Oh, they're Takstar, they're the same as nice Beyerdynamics, but they're knock-offs.", it really doesn't help my case. People already think I'm weird for not getting Beats, lol.
   
  It probably sounds weird, but it's an image thing for me. I'm like that. 
   
  Thanks for the recommendation, though. 
   
  EDIT: Whoa, $70 for a Fiio E11? That's a fair bit. I can get that, but I'm gonna have to save for at least 6 weeks. Is there anything equally portable, and cheaper that will drive the DT770 Pro 250 Ohm?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't seen ANYTHING more portable and cheaper than the E11 with the same or more power.

Maybe the CMOY? ACtually, it seems weak vs the E11.


----------



## Sharp-Shooter

Hello, i do not know which one of these headphones are the best for gaming, im looking for comfy, good directionality, and ofcourse good sound, which one would YOU Choose and why?

 AKG Q701 
 Sennheiser HD 598 
 Audio Technica ATH-AD900
 akg K550

 is there any other headphones i should consider?

 thanks!

 EDIT, right now i have onboard sound from my maximus V formula motherboard which uses supreme FX 4 more details on it here:
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?19334-A-Guide-To-SupremeFX-IV 
 i know its marketing but just wanna let you all know what i have, in the future i may consider buying a sound card anyway

 i want headphones mainly for gaming, i dont really listen to music on my computer so i wont really use it for that, but if i do i listen to mostly everything, rock/hip hop/dubstep mainly, i dont really watch movies on my computer, if i am im watching it with someone else so headphones wont matter for that,

 i want headphones that will give me good directionality for gaming so i can tell where my opponents are but also i want clear sound with good bass to enjoy what im playing, something thats comfy for a couple of hours is a bonus, and i do prefer detatchable cable that the k550 is missing

 thank you, so far im leaning towards the Q701, any other suggestions that i didnt mention is welcomed,


----------



## Eric_C

I want to know if you read through the first post carefully. What questions weren't covered there?


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I haven't seen ANYTHING more portable and cheaper than the E11 with the same or more power.
> Maybe the CMOY? ACtually, it seems weak vs the E11.


 
  Alrighty, I'll save for that then.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





daanalthenoob said:


> They're probably good, but when I'm wearing it at school and someone asks "What the hell are those? Beats are better.", and I reply "Oh, they're Takstar, they're the same as nice Beyerdynamics, but they're knock-offs.", it really doesn't help my case. People already think I'm weird for not getting Beats, lol.
> 
> It probably sounds weird, but it's an image thing for me. I'm like that.
> 
> ...


 
  Well... don't say they're knockoffs then. Lol, there's a whole thread (that sadly got locked down) about people calling out audiophiles for not wearing beats! You don't have to say anything, in many cases you can blow their mind by giving them a listen. However... some people are so used to the bloated, loose, overdriven bass and poor mids and highs that they won't think anything else is good. Same about a headphone/amp costing much less money. _I _might make fun of you if I saw you wearing giant-ass headphones to the lunch hall, lol. Not sure which headphone to recommend besides sennheisers and v-modas for street cred... senns have been well-respected for a long time, and the V-MODAs are a rising star. I'd still say get Koss KSC 75 for walkabout, or -- I like my sennheiser PX100 that fold up convenient like eyeglasses. Koss PortaPros are very similar to KSC75 with a headband, but they look retro and cost 4x as much usually. IMO, Get the KSC 75 for walking about, only use a full-sized headphone at home, with your powerful receiver.
   
  I haven't heard the takstar myself, but I HAVE heard a lot of people recommending them over the past two months. I'd say they're worth a shot.
   
  The FiiO E11 is one of the cheapest PORTABLE amps that can handle 250 ohms... and even then many will argue not to full potential. May be moot to you. For what it's worth, if you're in the US, last time I checked Amazon, authorized dealer Micca was selling the E11 for $51.99 plus shipping, with an extra battery and external charger included. Consider that most amps, desktop or portable, are $100 and up, and the wide variety over $300, then the E11 is quite cheap for a dedicated amp. Anything less than an E11 won't make much change from the amp built in to an iPod unless you just need external volume control. I Still say get KSC 75 or Px100 that can easily be driven by your iPod or whatever by itself


----------



## ruuku

sharp-shooter said:


> Hello, i do not know which one of these headphones are the best for gaming, im looking for comfy, good directionality, and ofcourse good sound, which one would YOU Choose and why?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree with Eric C, First post should have covered both the Qs and the 598s... MLE just recently demoed the 550s, and the AD900s have been discussed at length previously in the thread... but I'll bite. 
If you're not going to invest in at least a cheap amp then get either the 598s or the AD900. These will run fine on even low powered/un-amped applications. If you're going to invest in a decent amp like an O2, e9, then I suggest the Qs. 

Comfort on the AD series is hit or miss, I've auditioned new, unmodified AD900 and absolutely hated them. I repurchased a modified pair, and the comfort is many times better than stock, but still not as comfortable as a traditional headband. 

If your only requirement in a headphone is good directional sound on a competitive basis then go with AD700s. Much cheaper than everything else on your list and one of the best competitive headphones out there. 



daanalthenoob said:


> Alrighty, I'll save for that then.



If you're interested I've got a E11 lying around that I don't use anymore, PM me for more info.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

When I think of portable amps, I think transportable, like when using a laptop away from home. I would never actually hook up a portable amp with like an ipod walking around. Too much stuff in my pocket. I would just stick to a headphone that doesnt need an amp in that situation.

Ruuku, I think it was an A900x, not the AD900.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> When I think of portable amps, I think transportable, like when using a laptop away from home. I would never actually hook up a portable amp with like an ipod walking around. Too much stuff in my pocket. I would just stick to a headphone that doesnt need an amp in that situation.


 
   
  I'm the same way.  It's too much hassle to have carry around one of those DAP + AMP velcro brick stack things just to try and power headphones that should be used at home.  I would never buy one of those $300+ dollar high performance portable amps.  To me a "portable amp" is more like my E10 in that it runs of USB power and is tiny. 
   
  IF if have to listen to music on the go, I just use some cheap-ish IEMs straight from a player like the Sansa clip+.  I actually now have a Galaxy S phone that I should probably be using (it's got some kind of Wolfson DAC in it).  I just really prefer to listen to music at home on my desktop setup when it's quiet and I can actually hear the nuances of what I'm listening too.  It's too loud and distracting "outside" to hear much.  It all gets kind of muddled together.  I actually saw a guy walking across campus wearing some HD598s the other day!  I wanted to get closer to hear the ridiculous leakage that must have been coming from him.


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

I've given up. I'm going to get the cheaper, easier to drive CAL!, and then slightly modify it so that my ear doesn't touch the driver padding. Getting the CAL! for 80 Aussie bucks. Then down the track I'll get an E11 to improve SQ. Job done. 
   
  I'm very sorry if I wasted anybody's time, but all of your responses were extremely helpful and informative, and I'm definitely coming back here for any audio questions or advice that I have in the future. 
   
  Thanks for everybody's help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E11 isn't going to noticeably improve the CAL. They are incredibly easy to drive, so amping them won't really do much, aside from imparting whatever sonic trait the E11 has.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Uh, if you want to use the rather bulky-sized DT880 250ohm headphone _portably,_ you're gonna want the powerful new FiiO E12 coming nov/dec, or something from Ray Samuel Audio. You'll be well out of the norm and into niche requirements at that point.
> Also, from experience... You can't live with your parents forever, eventually they're going to be annoyed with paying your expenses while you make un-frugal purchases, and living on your own you'll probably have a whole different perspective on budget... Like buy nice headphones, or continue saving up for a new car, or fixing the toilet, or a comfortable chair, or making your place look nice so your lady friends will want to come over...
> Think about it.


 
  Ofc I won't be living with them forever but psh I'm gonna milk them as long as I can! But trust me -.- I budget my money and most of my purchase I complete the plan to buy then w8 8 months to save the money and buy xD, so yea it will be a while till I get anything seeing as I have bills to pay, gas to put in my car as well as insurance, phone bill and all sorts of other FUN expenses, thanks for the life leasson though! 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I haven't seen ANYTHING more portable and cheaper than the E11 with the same or more power.
> Maybe the CMOY? ACtually, it seems weak vs the E11.


 
  The JDS Labs cMoy BB 2.03 2x9V that I have, costs twice as much as an E11 is slighty bigger and has MUCH more power, but yea the E11 is a great buy. It's small and has plenty of power! But It's not a good synergy with my Dt 880 250 Ohm... the E12 Might be... but I'm not a fan of Fiio's Sound Signiture on my DT 880 tbh!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy hell, even with all warmth jumpers pushed in, the DT990/600 off the PS3 (analog out to SA-31) was bright as HELL. Almost absurdly so.

I have never heard the DT990 being so bright. I won't be doing that again.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Holy hell, even with all warmth jumpers pushed in, the DT990/600 off the PS3 (analog out to SA-31) was bright as HELL. Almost absurdly so.
> I have never heard the DT990 being so bright. I won't be doing that again.


 
  xD sheesh, that sounds like fun


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Holy hell, even with all warmth jumpers pushed in, the DT990/600 off the PS3 (analog out to SA-31) was bright as HELL. Almost absurdly so.
> I have never heard the DT990 being so bright. I won't be doing that again.




What game?
Sorry or your... hearing loss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Castlevania: Harmony of Despair. In stereo, it has really hard left to right panning, and its very treble oriented. Dolby Headphone is a blessing for this game, even if its 2D.


----------



## boomer12

Been a while since I checked in.  I got my E17 today and the results have been great.  It gives me the booming bass the E7 lacked for gaming when paired with a Mixamp.  I'm liking bass levels 2, 4, and 6 for most games, though there's a certain novelty to firing the Barrett .50cal in MW3 on bass level 10.  BOOM!
   
  Working out a bit nicer as a DAC than the E7.  Bass levels 0 and 2 are making everything sound great, and the treble equalizer can rein in my DT990s when the treble gets a little out of hand in certain situations.
   
  The amp is an attractive little device and menus are responsive and easy to navigate.  Not much to say here.
   
  Amazing amp. If you want more bass from your Mixamp without sound clipping and/or a great DAC, this is your amp right here.


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

I ended up getting the CAL. Haven't got the dough for an amp yet, but if I don't need one, then that's cool.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the purpose of gaming, you definitely don't. They would like something as cheap as the E7 to have a better source than onboard soundcards though. Not sure what you're using them with/for.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Castlevania: Harmony of Despair. In stereo, it has really hard left to right panning, and its very treble oriented. Dolby Headphone is a blessing for this game, even if its 2D.


 
   
  Are you saying DH is a blessing because you're using it to tone down the treble in that game, even if there's no real positional benefit?
   
  Or maybe it's to minimize the hard-panning, though I really don't mind that as much for 2D games, for whatever reason.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A blessing for that game in general. That game is too treble oriented.


----------



## DaanaltheNoob

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For the purpose of gaming, you definitely don't. They would like something as cheap as the E7 to have a better source than onboard soundcards though. Not sure what you're using them with/for.


 
  Using them for gaming and for music.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





boomer12 said:


> Been a while since I checked in.  I got my E17 today and the results have been great.  It gives me the booming bass the E7 lacked for gaming when paired with a Mixamp.  I'm liking bass levels 2, 4, and 6 for most games, though there's a certain novelty to firing the Barrett .50cal in MW3 on bass level 10.  BOOM!
> 
> Working out a bit nicer as a DAC than the E7.  Bass levels 0 and 2 are making everything sound great, and the treble equalizer can rein in my DT990s when the treble gets a little out of hand in certain situations.
> 
> ...


 
  Yea I wanting to get a E17 Dt 990 Pro 250 as my next combo. Wanna do a Cowon DAP so I can EQ while portable and use the E17 as my dedicated home AMP/DAC till next spring cuz next spring I want to get
   
  Audinis HUD mx1 + Hifiman Ef-5+AudioQUest RCA Cableing
   
 gonna pair that with a Dt 880 600 and have my home set up in FIN mode for the time being. I'll keep my dt 880 for Portable use, along with the 990. Not sure if I even want to get the XB1000 any more :[ as I LOVE Dub Step on EQ'd 880s which makes me think I should get the DT1350 for the Byer Sound I love and the +5 st8 Line Sub Response I'd like. Then use my Cowon DAP to eq the 1350 if I need [seeing as I'll be using an amp with them]
   
  Going to research my Winter Purchase now ^^ [the Cowon E17 Dt 990 or 1350]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Or maybe it's to minimize the hard-panning, though I really don't mind that as much for 2D games, for whatever reason.


 
   
  I want to play my 2-D platformers in 5.1 surround sound!!  The 5.1 positioning really gives me a competitive edge of those nasty sprites!
   
_/sarcasm_


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I want to play my 2-D platformers in 5.1 surround sound!!  The 5.1 positioning really gives me a competitive edge of those nasty sprites!
> 
> _/sarcasm_



From what I've heard about the sadistic 2D Castlevania games, ANY advantage or aid to keep you sharp or hit that ledge at exactly this moment, would be a godsend.

The most recent game wasn't too hard though, kinda like a poor cousin of God of War and Devil May Cry.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A blessing for that game in general. That game is too treble oriented.


 
   
  Then why not just use an equalizer?
   
  Balancing source frequencies aside, it could also help certain headphone models to sound "just right" for your tastes, if only a few frequency ranges are off. Saves a lot of money on going through countless headphones, too...on the other hand, a lot of people depend on your numerous impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like to personally equalize my headphones most of the time. This is precisely why I got rid of the HE-400. All the HE-400 needed is a minor bump in bass, and they'd be perfect for me. But I don't like to fall back on EQ because there are situations where EQ is not an option, and I'll feel like I'm missing something when I CAN;T use EQ. Just... trust me... I'm dumb like that. 

I had the EQ with the E17 and the HE-400, and I felt cheated... like this is how I WANT the HE-400 to always sound... if that makes any sense. I didn't wanna use the E17 as a crutch. With the SA-31's warmth jumpers in place, it's not really an EQ. It just ever so slighly changes the tone to be a hint warmer. It's almost so minute, it's not worth mentioning. 

 I want to listen to the innate sound signature of the headphones anyways.

Just got my HE-4s again...

To quote myself...



> I always considered it a cross between a DT880 and DT990. This has not changed. The HE-4 is fresh out of the box, so give me time to adjust, and or let the HE-4 settle in. I'm able to directly compare it to the DT990/600. Both off my SA-31. The HE-4 needs a couple notches more off the SA-31's volume than the DT990.
> 
> Directly comparing (mostly the tonal balance):
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Then why not just use an equalizer?
> 
> Balancing source frequencies aside, it could also help certain headphone models to sound "just right" for your tastes, if only a few frequency ranges are off. Saves a lot of money on going through countless headphones, too...on the other hand, a lot of people depend on your numerous impressions.




Curious, how much would a discreet equalizer run at for a base model? Personally, I think there is sometimes something separate from a raised frequency that can contribute to harsh or dull sound... Too much treble is always bad IMO, but with my headphones, the treble is usually fine, but synthesized highs seem quite a bit sharper and more painful than a sound at the same pitch produced organically. For example, I hate playing Plants vs Zombies on my Q701s because the synth music irritates my hearing quickly, but it's fine if I use the much smoother and less-detailed speaker built-in to my iPad.

I'm hoping that I'll smooth my treble a bit simply by tube rolling. I should get a tracking number for my amp this week!


----------



## Paradux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't like to personally equalize my headphones most of the time. This is precisely why I got rid of the HE-400. All the HE-400 needed is a minor bump in bass, and they'd be perfect for me. But I don't like to fall back on EQ because there are situations where EQ is not an option, and I'll feel like I'm missing something when I CAN;T use EQ. Just... trust me... I'm dumb like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I actually see what you mean there. It's like you're taking away from something that you payed for. It's kinda like using dynamic contrast on a TV to make an image look 'nicer' but fake as opposed to calibrated.
   
  Is this why you hesitate to recommend the DT770s, given that you can just remove the overpowered bass, and as a result have the best directional audio possible in competitive games?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, sorta like that. I also feel that EQ can't replace a stock headphone with the sound you want. 

I'm returning the HE-4. I ordered the 990 Pros. I realize that I'm just wasting my time trying to appeal to lesser desires within me. What I need is a bassy open headphone that will always satisfy. The 990/600 will be compared to the 990 Pros. If the Pros are as close as the Premium 250ohm was, I'm gonna keep them and call it a day on that front, assuming the bass doesn't destroy my ears like last time. I'm gonna be done searching for a bassy open can. After that, I need a musical, mid rich can that I can use when watching things that need good mids. Well... just went and did it...

Just got the HD650 from E-Expo for $340 new in open box (just as I have done with the D7000s, which were new in open box too... and were definitely new and untouched)

I have been wanting to try them for AGES. Why did I get them? It was this or getting the HE-400 again. I realize that the 990s are staying no matter what I do. Either the 990/600 or the 990 pros (depending on how the 990 pros stack up to the 600). I need that bass of theirs. I just do.

However, I don't need a headphone that competes with it. And so since I hear of how magical the mids are on the HD650... I decided it was that time.

I don't think the HD650 is going to make a good gaming headphone, but I want them for other purposes.


----------



## Rebel975

evshrug said:


> Curious, how much would a discreet equalizer run at for a base model? !






Something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FBQ800-Ultra-Compact-Graphic-Equalizer/dp/B000MJ406Y


----------



## Evshrug

> Just got the HD650 from E-Expo for $340 new in open box (just as I have done with the D7000s, which were new in open box too... and were definitely new and untouched)




Ew. I HATE Electronics Expo. I bought my AD700s from them, but I didn't get the headphone until a full MONTH after I ordered them because they kept sending the closed A700 model. I think they just turned around and sent back the exact same unit, too. 3 other head-fi'ers had the same problem with them around the same time as me... most of them gave up and kept the A700. Electronics Expo didn't address the issue until I wrote a detailed 0-star seller report 3-weeks in, in which they contacted me and asked if I would take my review down.

I've heard the HD650 is good, but has recessed mids. Maybe your amp will power out what you're hoping for, but I'm going to "call it" and bet that it's not the droid you are looking for. At least, with a review up, people will stop asking for you to review them, lol!

Mad, you choose an apt username :rolleyes: I'm not telling you what to do with your money (or credit), but, as a friend, I'd _advise_ you to spread out these purchases. I know you send a lot of them back, but why not once a month? What's the rush?

Rebel975,
Thanks for the link. It's loading seriously slow on the Starbucks network I'm at, for some reason, but I bet quite a few thread-participants will be interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never had a problem the three times I ordered from them. Two D7000s, and the HD598. Everything came quickly and without issues.

And you're wrong. The HD650 is a mid rich headphone. It has recessed treble.

I'm an impatient person. The harsh truth, lol.



The graphs and pretty much everything I've read of them has been that they have amazing mids.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Rebel975,
> Thanks for the link. It's loading seriously slow on the Starbucks network I'm at, for some reason, but I bet quite a few thread-participants will be interested.


 
   
   
  That's the cheapest one they have. They also have 31 band ones, but you'd pay much more for them obviously.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> And you're wrong. The HD650 is a mid rich headphone. It has recessed treble.
> I'm an impatient person. The harsh truth, lol.
> 
> The graphs and pretty much everything I've read of them has been that they have amazing mids.


 
  @ Mad being that you  want lush mids why not go for the HE-500? I'm sure being that you like the DT880-990 series headsets your not going to like the Hd 650 trust me the HD-650 is an easy going but detailed headset "I'd say laid back ".
   
  It has less bass presentation than the DT- series headsets and of course the high end i bet is not going to be "Sparkly" enough for your taste. I bet you will audition them and then send them back but i could be wrong lol.
   
  Your gonna need eq to get them to sparkle like the DT-990 but hey the HD-650 respond's pretty well to eq in which i understand you not fond of doing either! 
   
  good luck with the HD-650 i happen to like it but it sounds dark and soothing to my tired ears but thats my impression of em..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd rather spend $350 now and save the that other $350. Besides, the HD650 is my COMPLIMENTARY can, not my main one. I require bass and treble for my main needs. In fact, the HD650 is probably absolute overkill as a secondary can.

Ironically, they won't be really for music, but for when I need rich vocals, mainly when watching my tv shows, and the like. The DT990s tend to be a bit distant in the vocals when I'm trying to pay attention to voices when watching movies/etc. If it's not an action movie, I'll most likely be using the HD650.

If I was gonna spend $700 on a headphone, they better damn well be my main can, like the D7000.

That wound is still fresh. I beginning to think I made a mistake of selling them. Those were everything I wanted, pleather aside.

Ideally it would have been:

Closed: D7000
Open: DT990
Mid rich: ??? (HD650?)
Transportable: KSC35

One thing I find interesting:



Graph accuracy not being perfect, I'm still intrigued. The KSC35 is warmer than the KSC75, with softer treble, and bigger bass, yet are very similar. If the HD650 is like a big KSC35, even with less bass... I do believe I have an absolute winner for that secondary purpose.


----------



## ruuku

LOL! Great minds MLE... I just bought a pair over the weekend... I'm thinking of using these to test out wether or not i should look towards the HD800s as my endgame can. Not too sure if I should have gone with the 600s instead through.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD800 has little in common with the HD650, fwir. The HD800 is supposedly like a super K701. The 650 would be on the opposite side of the spectrum.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, I never though I'd see you go in for a HD650.  It's like the opposite of what you normally use.  There's a bunch of headphones I would try first before I'd consider the HD650.
   
  #DatVeil


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im surprised myself, but I know im good with the DT990.


----------



## ruuku

Chico-
I'd be interested in hearing what headphones are on your list... I think we prefer similar SQ, with an exception of bass, which I like to have a small emphasis on.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Chico-
> I'd be interested in hearing what headphones are on your list... I think we prefer similar SQ, with an exception of bass, which I like to have a small emphasis on.


 
   
  Well, I don't think there are any upgrades to my Q701 until you get to the next higher tier of headphones.  I was saying I would be more curious to try other headphones before the HD650, such as the Philips Fidelio X1, the Sony MA900, or Ultrasone 2400.  I would only try the HD650 after I had run out of all other possible options


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD650 is a radical departure from what I usually like. I tend to always go for aggressive and energetic headphones. I really want the opposite. Comfort, relaxing, and intimate. I think it's because the HD650 is so different that they may be what I've needed all this time.

The HE-400 has shown me that I CAN like dark headphones, though they do retain sparkle. I wanna see what a smooth higher end headphone can do. I was pleasantly surprised at the ESW9 at Best Buy. It was quite a difference from how I remembered them. An open version would be quite amazing, and I'm hoping the HD650 delivers.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HD650 is a radical departure from what I usually like. I tend to always go for aggressive and energetic headphones. I really want the opposite. Comfort, relaxing, and intimate. I think it's because the HD650 is so different that they may be what I've needed all this time.
> The HE-400 has shown me that I CAN like dark headphones, though they do retain sparkle. I wanna see what a smooth higher end headphone can do. I was pleasantly surprised at the ESW9 at Best Buy. It was quite a difference from how I remembered them. An open version would be quite amazing, and I'm hoping the HD650 delivers.


 
   
  Maybe you should get the LCD-3.   Then you'll get dark sounding + it's legendary bass as a bonus. 
   
  It looks uncomfortable as hell though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Comfort is top priority, lol.

Come on. You know me and velours!


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD-650 is very comfortable, I didn't like its signature, too veiled for me or let's say, too dark. The HE-500 was better to me in all cases, the LCD-2 bass is really outstanding. All three have one thing in commong: they honestly suck for gaming. 

Between LCD-2 and HE-500 I actually can't tell a winner. HE-500 is a bit more fun to me. Comfort-wise the LCD-2 isn't that bad. I have been wearing the bamboo with leather pads for the last few days (of course for several hours not 24/7 ) and didn't have much problems, not even sweaty ears.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Just when I think you're finally settling down on headphones, here you are, buying an HD650...
   
  For that matter, I still can't keep my Head-Fi spending in check either. There's something that I have my eye on...something that would make your next headphone review a lot easier...but I can't quite afford it right now, and chances are by the time I can, it'll be sold already.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HE-400 has shown me that I CAN like dark headphones...


 
   
 You know what they say:  Once you go dark............  < _fill in the blank with a head-fi joke about dark headphones _


----------



## Evshrug

Still alive! Though we have a leak in our ceiling... of the first floor living room. Well, living room @ my girlfriend's, but I feel bad for them all the same.

Anyone else in hurricane Sandy?

Also, I'm with chico... I am not wanting for a headphone besides the Q701. Just the amp, which is on it's way.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Still alive! Though we have a leak in our ceiling... of the first floor living room. Well, living room @ my girlfriend's, but I feel bad for them all the same.
> Anyone else in hurricane Sandy?
> Also, I'm with chico... I am not wanting for a headphone besides the Q701. Just the amp, which is on it's way.


 
   
  Oh wow, your in Pittsburgh, PA.  You must have got slammed.


----------



## lubczyk

What high-end IEMs would people consider excellent for gaming?
   
  I was looking at universals like the Heir Audio 4.Ai but I am not against customs like the Unique Melody Merlin
   
  I've also heard that Aurisonics ASG 1.2 are pretty good.
   
  The AKG K3003i looks very promosing as well.


----------



## Eric_C

The IEM question has been discussed here before. The short answer is: none.
  Get headphones.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> The IEM question has been discussed here before. The short answer is: none.
> Get headphones.


 
  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The RE0s are pretty good for IEM gaming, and apprently the Astro A*Stars work well too, so perhaps there ARE IEMs that are capable. Not that they'd ever come close to full sized cans though.


Just wanted to give you guys a heads up. The 990/600 like new is currently going for $208 on Amazon Warehouse deals. That's the lowest I've seen in ages. If I return mine, I could save 65 dollars just re-ordering them. But first, I wanna see which 990 I'm keeping. The 990 Pros or the 600.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Oh wow, your in Pittsburgh, PA.  You must have got slammed.




Yeah, I'm going to have to look around my house and do a damage assessment after work today. We're on a hill, so flooding isn't a major concern. I bet other cities were hit worse... For pittsburghers, though, it's worse than it should be because the Appalachian mountains usually buffer us from high speed winds and the worst of hurricanes, so this caught a lot of people off guard. It's supposed to get worse today too... Though it seems the bigger problem is this will be the 3-4th day straight of heavy rain.

...

Now I want to play the PS3 game, Heavy Rain. Or watch Bowfinger, the Steve Martin and Eddie Murphy movie about making a film called "Chubby Rain," rain containing aliens that can turn people into zombies. LoL!

-----

I bet the detail in IEMs would allow for laser-accurate positioning accuracy, but soundstage and the perception of distance may suffer. Using my Etymotic ER6i (discontinued model) was pretty good when I just played in stereo, though they were uncomfortable to wear for over 2 hours straight. Unless I was at a crowded, noisy, competitive LAN party, I would choose full-sized headphones first.

I'm going to have to test them with the Recon3D some day.


----------



## washu9

IEM for gaming is something I really don't think works that well.
  I have a Westone UM3.
  Very comfy to wear hours at a time.
  Sound quality is superb, but bass is... well... lacking.
   
  The only way I can position anything based on sound is when I'm "running".
  Basically trying to pinpoint based on the increase and decrease of the sound.though left and right channel as I change position.
  Whenever I'm stuck in one area, it is fairly easy to sneak up on my back.
  If I stay in an area, I always need to constantly keep check on my surroundings.
   
  I just got a full sized can and a desktop amp to go with it.
  Haven't tried it on games to make a comparison though.  Having too much fun just listening to music.
  The sound quality difference is.... staggering.
  Having an open back headphone in a tropical climate is a godsend.
   
  I haven't played ANY game since I got it set up.
  Now, I can easily spend the same amount of time just listening to music compared to what I used to spend gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my DT990 Pros came.

On a sad note, the left driver is messed up. After a certain volume, the left driver rattles. Sigh. Horrible.

Aside from the bad rattle, It actually sounds exactly like the Premiums. My last 990 Pros may have also been messed up because the bass was headache inducing, and these sound like the Premium DT990 250ohm, which sounded fantastic.

Actually, they sound the same as the Premiums. Just more clampy. Assuming you get one that works...the 990 Pros are absolutely the best deal in headphones, IMHO. $180-$200 gets you just FANTASTIC, energetic all rounders.

I've updated the first post. Took off the 990 Pro listing, and added details on the 990 listing, thus making all the models show up under one listing with details on the differences (like prices, comfort, etc).


----------



## TMRaven

What are you 650 impressions.  Glad to know the pros sound the same as the premiums.  Now I don't have to worry about potentially missing out on BASS when I wasn't happy with the premium's bass at the time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I get the 650 at the end of the week to the beginning of next week. I don't have high hopes of it doing well for gaming. I was close to cancelling it altogether, but they are open boxed and E-E has a 14 day return (minus shipping). Time will tell. If they don't work out, I'll probably go back to the HE-400 and stay there.

The 990 Pros were supposed to be new, but what the hell is up with QC that the driver came basically blown? AH well. I mean it sounds fine until you hit a certain volume, then it goes haywire. In any case, the bass is just ever so slightly bigger than the Premiums, though I'm sure that's due to the clamp.


----------



## TMRaven

I'm sure they'll do just as well for gaming as many of the other mid-priced open headphones.  Transient wise, they're super quick and very detailed, they don't have that much bass, so hearing footsteps should be no problem.  Their soundstage is about the same size as the HE-400, but less round and more oval-- and not as layered.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> IEM for gaming is something I really don't think works that well.
> I have a Westone UM3.
> Very comfy to wear hours at a time.
> Sound quality is superb, but bass is... well... lacking.
> ...


 
  I know exactly how you feel, regarding full-sized can + amp. Even without my headphone amp arriving yet, I've experienced the same moving experience with music vs gaming... it truly is amazing what all the small differences add up to. Before, you hear all or most of the sounds and vocals in music, but after getting a reference setup, you realize that only _now_ are you hearing the *music*, that what once was a game of trying to pull apart the strands that make up the sound is now an experience of music plunking the strands of your heartstrings.
   
  Was that hella corny and merely half-articulate? Yes. Do you get what I'm getting at? I bet you do 
   
  And like I said on IEMs, the detail is there and you can probably hear directional cues pretty well. I'm willing to bet that, even with a more bassy IEM, you'd still have a clear impression that something is missing vs your full-sized can. Which can and desktop amp did you get, btw?
   
  -----
  -----
   
  Mad,
  I just read a FASCINATING article. I want to share things like this in a complementary thread, like how yours works with Nameless' guide, but I'm not sure how to focus it because only some of the topics are about gaming. Mostly, it's just interesting points and mythbusting, whether related to gaming or virtual surround or not. Gamer-audiophile. The article I found is about using the iPad camera connection kit's USB to connect to an external DAC - yep, I may test it out myself - and I've had many other ideas such as comparing the Recon3D directly to Silent Cinema in A/B testing style (with Nameless' links to CMSS-3D & your link to TF2 w/ DH to complete the picture), debate on the effect of output impedance & it's effect, analysis and conclusions on selecting headphones based on usage intents and Ohm rating, explaining LODs and maxing out iPods potential, etc.
   
  The goal is to be a participation-resource, with links to the first post (by me) of each topic on the guide-post (post #1), and my analysis paired with questions and invitations for discussion by others for a week or so before posing a new topic post. Would it be a lot of work, like a job? Yes. But, I am on anyway and want to talk about these things, without derailing your thread. As you know, I've already written a few longer posts that probably didn't belong in this thread.
   
  Which forum do you think would be most effective for this? Do you think "Evshrug's Gamer-Audiophile Thread - Discussions, Mythbusting, and Interesting topics" would be a good title and summation for the thread? Do you think there would even be interest in this, and could you see yourself linking to a topic post instead of explaining something like impedance matching?


----------



## chicolom

In the link in my sig people have listed some IEMs that have better soundstages...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OW0_tafeWTE[/VIDEO]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OW0_tafeWTE

Vid of the DT990 rattle


----------



## Bunchies

Hey guys,
   
  Been lurking this thread for quite sometime, never thought of posting cause of limited knowledge on headphones. As per Mad's suggestion, I was going to go pick up the Q701's at my job yesterday (Best Buy) as I'm looking for Gaming cans that will also be used for music (I tend to listen to music when I'm not playing an FPS/Adventure game). I listen to almost every genre (minus country), and these got good reviews from nearly everyone on this site, including Mad, which I have respect for making such a comprehensive thread.
   
  Anyways, the co-worker that was working in the musical department turned me on to another pair of headphones and made me question my decision. Unfortunately, no ones reviewed them on this thread, was hoping you guys could help me out in determining if they're good for gaming? Or maybe someone owns a pair and can vouch for them?
   
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pioneer+-+HDJ-2000+Professional+DJ+Headphones/1016727.p?id=1218209268845&skuId=1016727&st=Pioneer%20HDJ%202000&cp=1&lp=1
   
  Pioneer HDJ-200's.
   
  They we're a bit more comfortable than the Q701's, and packed a little bit more bass as well, something I think I'd learn to appreciate while gaming. This will be my first purchase of high-end headphones so I wanna do it right.
   
  EDIT - Just want to make it clear that I heard both of these off my phone. I really like the Q701's as well, just exploring my options, I suppose. Big purchases make me nervous.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard those... they have a pretty small soundstage, which won't do well for gaming, IMHO. $349 gets you some truly highly regarded headphones. Not to say the Pioneers wouldn't be good, but that's a hard price to swallow for untested headphones.


----------



## Bunchies

I get both headphones for around $220 with my discount. I was thinkin I should just stick to my guns and get the Q701s anyways. There's no other headphonne we sell that id be interested in besides maybe the Audio Technica 900s. But for the price difference I think ill s
tick to the Q701s.


----------



## ruuku

Between the Qs and AT AD/A900s, the Qs are a much better choice all around. They also love and reward a proper amp. I haven't been to a BB in a while... do they sell HP amps?


----------



## Bunchies

I don't think we do, but ill check next time I work. We have things there I've never even seen sold before. 

If anything, I don't mind getting an amp of amazon. Its just more convienient from my job. And the discount is nice too


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They sell the dragonfly and udac2.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





bunchies said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Been lurking this thread for quite sometime, never thought of posting cause of limited knowledge on headphones. As per Mad's suggestion, I was going to go pick up the Q701's at my job yesterday (Best Buy) as I'm looking for Gaming cans that will also be used for music (I tend to listen to music when I'm not playing an FPS/Adventure game). I listen to almost every genre (minus country), and these got good reviews from nearly everyone on this site, including Mad, which I have respect for making such a comprehensive thread.
> 
> ...


 
  Pioneer has some smart audio engineers (and electronic engineers in general!), so I would readily believe the HDJ-200 would be a great headphone without hearing them, BUT I have and love hearing my Q701. I'm listening currently with consumer-grade amps (only slightly better than a smartphone's built-in stuff) and love my Q's for music and gaming, but I've widely read that the flagship AKG headphones' bass and treble transform in presence and sweetness with a good desktop amp. I'm hoping to experience that for myself in a week, but the Q701 is great on it's own, and scales appreciably with future upgrades to your system. If you're in the Pittsburgh area, I have an extra headband wrap I could give you, too 
   
  Regarding Best Buy discount: Discounts indeed are great, but don't assume that you can't get an even greater discount online. In the case of the Q701, pretty much anybody could get the "BB Discount" price on the black model: $225 shipped (no tax) from B&H, a trusted store based in New York that I have bought hundreds of dollars of camera gear from.


----------



## HalidePisces

Hey MLE, you might want to consider doing a small write-up about the differences between the three(?) Mixamp revisions. The 2013 revision seems to have changed the available inputs (no more RCA audio inputs, TOSLINK is now mini-TOSLINK, etc.). I think it'd be useful information for those looking to get a Mixamp.


----------



## ruuku

halidepisces said:


> Hey MLE, you might want to consider doing a small write-up about the differences between the three(?) Mixamp revisions. The 2013 revision seems to have changed the available inputs (no more RCA audio inputs, TOSLINK is now mini-TOSLINK, etc.). I think it'd be useful information for those looking to get a Mixamp.



MLE if you agree, since I wrote the original decoder section, I'll write up the revision for the Astro Mixamps and submit it to you for editing/clarification.


----------



## Droppedin

Ok, I am doing something wrong, I am totally new to headphone gaming. I am getting no sound from my setup.  I am using my Koss DJ-Pro 100’s (they work great in everything else), Zalman ZM-Mic1 and a Dual 3.5mm to 2.5mm (PC35-Xbox360). I am using the exact setup mentioned in some threads and I am not getting any sound at all in the makeshift headset. I even got the Syba SD-CM-UAUD USB Stereo Audio Adapter and tested it out on the PS3, still no sound.  The x-box adapter is a little loose too, anyone else deal with a loose xbox headset adapters? What am I doing wrong?


----------



## ruuku

I would troubleshoot your components by process of elimination... do you have a 2.5 headset (OEM microsoft) headset that comes with most Xbox360s? If so plug that in to the controller...if it works then its your splitter. Try another controller, the plug on your current one might not be working properly. I haven't turned on my PS3 in a little over 6 months so i cant really help you there. The 2.5mm on all my 360 controller's aren't exactly tight, but nor too loose either.


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I know exactly how you feel, regarding full-sized can + amp. Even without my headphone amp arriving yet, I've experienced the same moving experience with music vs gaming... it truly is amazing what all the small differences add up to. Before, you hear all or most of the sounds and vocals in music, but after getting a reference setup, you realize that only _now_ are you hearing the *music*, that what once was a game of trying to pull apart the strands that make up the sound is now an experience of music plunking the strands of your heartstrings.
> 
> Was that hella corny and merely half-articulate? Yes. Do you get what I'm getting at? I bet you do
> 
> And like I said on IEMs, the detail is there and you can probably hear directional cues pretty well. I'm willing to bet that, even with a more bassy IEM, you'd still have a clear impression that something is missing vs your full-sized can. Which can and desktop amp did you get, btw?


 
   
  HD800 + WA6SE.
  Can't tell you how hard it was to make the choice.  Left a crater where my wallet used to be.
   
  If anyone ask is it worth it... maybe I'll get back to you after the break in period.
   
  Details are just...phenomenal.  Sound clarity is soo good... I can crank it up higher than I thought possible on a headphone.  
  I think I may have damaged my eardrums... kept increasing the volume bit by bit... 
   
  Have to admit though, I find many recordings that I used to find enjoyable to be rather bad.
  Defects are blaringly obvious.
   
  Anyway, I need to get back to work to fill that crater I made


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just realized why the HD650 hasn't shipped yet... its coming from NJ. Yikes. I guess next week is likely now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halidepisces said:


> Hey MLE, you might want to consider doing a small write-up about the differences between the three(?) Mixamp revisions. The 2013 revision seems to have changed the available inputs (no more RCA audio inputs, TOSLINK is now mini-TOSLINK, etc.). I think it'd be useful information for those looking to get a Mixamp.




ruuku has pm-ed me with this...

I'll be adding it soon-ish. I'm DEAD tired. Lol, I don't trust myself editing the first post right now. It'll be added in the near future.



> 5.1 Wired Mixamp
> Input: TOS Link, COAX, R/L RCA, 3.5mm Input (MP3/AUX), USB (power only)
> OUT: 3.5mm (PC)
> 
> ...


----------



## Bunchies

I bought the Q701's yesterday from my job (Best Buy) and I'm utterly disgusted. They gave me a pair of broken headphones, and they were the last ones that they had. The right phone is broken, and they also do NOT go as loud as it should. Also when it hits a certain low note, the left phone starts to crackle. I checked the serial number on our system and apparently they had been returned 4 times in the past, Best Buy just put it right back on the shelves.
   
  Hate this company. Can't believe I work for it -_-.
   
  Anyways, don't buy from Best Buy ever. Does anybody know another company where I can shipp the white Q701's from?


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





bunchies said:


> I bought the Q701's yesterday from my job (Best Buy) and I'm utterly disgusted. They gave me a pair of broken headphones, and they were the last ones that they had. The right phone is broken, and they also do NOT go as loud as it should. Also when it hits a certain low note, the left phone starts to crackle. I checked the serial number on our system and apparently they had been returned 4 times in the past, Best Buy just put it right back on the shelves.
> 
> Hate this company. Can't believe I work for it -_-.
> 
> Anyways, don't buy from Best Buy ever. Does anybody know another company where I can shipp the white Q701's from?


 
   
  Seriously?  Seriously?  You get those headphones for a great price, are well within your return policy, and can very easily swap it out for another one with very little trouble UNLESS you actually damaged it.  You can order a new one and have it delivered if you're set on the Q701.
   
  Plus, Best Buy, nor most other retailers, actually build & package the product.  That's why one of the reasons they offer return policies.  Do you expect that other retailers are somehow getting a separate and better protected version of the Q701?  No.  They are all packaged, shipped, and stored pretty much in the same way.
   
  On top of that, I'm well aware of the very nice discount you get from your company for brand new in box products.  So I'm a little taken aback by the fact you're complaining at all.
   
  Sorry, but that just ruffled my feathers a bit.
   
*Edit:*  I see you purchased an open box product, but you can get it ordered through them for a NIB and just have to wait a little bit for one that has never been opened.  Your employee discount price for NIB is better than the open box price any ways.  The only reason I can figure that caused you not to want to go NIB was the wait.  I can relate to that, but it will be NIB and cheaper for you.


----------



## HalidePisces

mad lust envy said:


> > 5.1 Wired Mixamp
> > Input: TOS Link, COAX, R/L RCA, 3.5mm Input (MP3/AUX), USB (power only)
> > OUT: 3.5mm (PC)
> >
> > ...


I think there was also some connection with PS3 and/or X360 that was added or changed from the 2009 to 2011 version.


----------



## Bunchies

I'm not mad because I got a defective product. I'm mad because Best Buy did not make a single effort to actually test returned product, and they try to sell it like new to the public. Of course it doesn't matter for me, I'm just going to return the paperweight and make sure they ship it back to the company - I could care less. What pisses me off is they try to sell **** that has been used, returned god knows how many times, as new products to general consumers. That's ********.
   
  I'm fully aware that they don't package their own product, I work there. I can't just swap it out for a new one either because this was the last of the item they had in stock, our system says that our particular Best Buy not be receiving anymore of the product ever again, hence why I'm asking where else people have bought their product from as there isn't another retailer where I can get the cans for ~$220, or if I should just order them directly from the warehouse and force Best Buy to bring in new product.
   
  Also, I didn't receive a discount on them. Best Buy marks the item up to $400, where as every other vendor I've seen sells it plainly for $220 - the same price as my discount.
   
  Sorry if you misconstrued some of the information I posted.


----------



## tokendog

Quote: 





bunchies said:


> I'm not mad because I got a defective product. I'm mad because Best Buy did not make a single effort to actually test returned product, and they try to sell it like new to the public. Of course it doesn't matter for me, I'm just going to return the paperweight and make sure they ship it back to the company - I could care less. What pisses me off is they try to sell **** that has been used, returned god knows how many times, as new products to general consumers. That's ********.
> 
> I'm fully aware that they don't package their own product, I work there. I can't just swap it out for a new one either because this was the last of the item they had in stock, our system says that our particular Best Buy not be receiving anymore of the product ever again, hence why I'm asking where else people have bought their product from as there isn't another retailer where I can get the cans for ~$220, or if I should just order them directly from the warehouse and force Best Buy to bring in new product.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This isn't the point of this thread, nor should it be.  If you want me to remove it, I will....With that said,  No retailer, including the one you work for, is legally allowed nor do they have a policy of selling opened products as new in box while operating within the shores of the United States.  This is obviously more of a employee training issue - where an individual did not follow the policy in place, as I know that Best Buy, like other US retailers, are required to verify the condition of all products during the return process in order to maintain their relationship with vendors, as well as the experience of the customer who may later purchase the open item.  These items are required to be labeled as such and if not, it's not because of some policy, but rather because an employee failed to do so.
   
  I also know that your retailer has a system in place that will enable you to order a brand new in box from any where in the company.  It's just a matter of time - and I'm assuming that's the real issue here.  I also know your employers discount policy, and know you have no room to complain in terms of pricing.  As with all Americans, we are allowed to purchase from wherever we would like based on whichever variables we deem important, and that's something I suggest you take advantage of.   Your situation is not a reflection of your company's policy as a whole, but rather a localized situation that could occur to any company, large or small.  Training people to do their jobs properly is an issue ALL organizations face in this world.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote:


> 5.1 Wired Mixamp
> Input: TOS Link, COAX, R/L RCA, 3.5mm Input (MP3/AUX), USB (power only)
> OUT: 3.5mm (PC)
> 
> ...


   
  Might want to add multiple users posted that the 2013 mixamp version has a steady hiss at high volumes. One that isn't present in the 2009 model for sure. I have never heard the 2011 version so I can't confirm or deny if it is present there as well.
   
  -Erik


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> *Might want to add multiple users posted that the 2013 mixamp version has a steady hiss at high volumes. *One that isn't present in the 2009 model for sure. I have never heard the 2011 version so I can't confirm or deny if it is present there as well.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  how annoying is this hiss?  I was planning on getting the 2013 mixamp next month.  It's not as noticable as the steady hum that the 720+ decoder box has, right?


----------



## cytosis

Which amp is the best to pair up with the AD700's?  I was reading up on the reviews that are at the start of this thread and it looks like the Astro mixamp is the better of the amps but I can't find a place that sells it by itself (404 error on the Astro store).  Are there any amps that compare to the mixamp or are the Astros the best and should I just wait until they fix their webpage?


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





cytosis said:


> ...  I was reading up on the reviews that are at the start of this thread and it looks like the Astro mixamp is the better of the amps but I can't find a place that sells it by itself (404 error on the Astro store).


 
   
  Astro's twitter account is telling people that the mixamp will be available again in mid-November:  https://twitter.com/ASTROGaming/status/263685810723889152


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> how annoying is this hiss?  I was planning on getting the 2013 mixamp next month.  It's not as noticable as the steady hum that the 720+ decoder box has, right?


 
  Like the trittons, it isn't noticeable when there is action. But if you are on the dashboard and have the volume cranked on the Mixamp and your headphones (if they have an adjustment), it is noticeable. I would suggest getting a used mixamp unless you REALLY want the stream feature, and even then you could just get a headphone splitter and run that to your computer. Once again, I can't comment on the 2011 version.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

cytosis said:


> Which amp is the best to pair up with the AD700's?  I was reading up on the reviews that are at the start of this thread and it looks like the Astro mixamp is the better of the amps but I can't find a place that sells it by itself (404 error on the Astro store).  Are there any amps that compare to the mixamp or are the Astros the best and should I just wait until they fix their webpage?




Just FYI, the AD700 are very easy to amp, so I'd recommend just finding a clean one. Until just a few months ago, I always played games and movies in stereo (w/headphones or speakers), and the FiiO E5 was plenty of amp. Any of the processors should have an amp powerful enough for the AD700.

If you want a solution before the Mixamps are available again, I recommend trying a Creative Recon3D USB processor from a store with a return policy. It's a bit cheaper, works really well with my AD700 for Xbox or PC, and if you don't like it you could always return it once the next Mixamp becomes available. I'm happy with mine. NamelessPFG (head-fi poster on this thread) might sell you his for a good price, if you would be okay selling it yourself if you don't like it.


----------



## chicolom

I get the feeling people might be blowing this whole new mixamp hissing thing out of proportion.  If it's anything like the wireless mixamp, the hiss is a non-issue 95% of the time.  It's one of those things you have to go out of your way to listen for, like sitting at the dashboard with the volume cranked up above normal listening level.
   
  The same thing happened when people found out they_ could_ hear hiss on the mixamp 5.8.   People would start ruling it out, saying _"I WAS going to get the wireless mixamp, but then I read about 'the hiss'.  I guess I need to get the wired one instead..."_
   
  If you have really sensitive headphones like the AD700, then hiss might be a concern.  Otherwise most headphones above 60 ohms will usually bury any hiss anyways.


----------



## Evshrug

2x that the new Mixamp hiss is not yet a fact, and probably won't be an issue once it's adopted by more people and we get more reports.

-----
Had another test with Yamaha's Silent Cinema, since I had the house to myself.

First of all, the Q701's are clearly being amped much better, and everything has a much more tactile and rich feel. Very nice. Maybe my tests with this before are why I felt that amping with the Recon3D may be volume-adequate, but the greater headroom of my receiver's power is a clear upgrade. Treble sounds were more defined, yet less harsh. Mids and bass also became more distinct, with rumble and grit that is pleasingly dynamic yet tighter. Sounds like the "tink" of lock picking in Oblivion still were annoying, especially with Silent Cinema enabled, but overall less annoying with a bit of negative Treble compensation thanks to receiver options.

Silent Cinema, itself, was kind of a mixed bag. The directionality was good, with sounds seeming to come from sides and front/back instead of above/below. I also discovered that virtual surround was enabled even with the DSP programs off and set to "straight," so no echo, but directionality seemed to be distinctly limited to "5.1." If I had someone in Oblivion talking to me or a fireplace crackling, I could pan in a circle and hear the direction distinctly switch between the standard 5 positions of "speakers," which was especially noticeable during a full-speed twirl between FL, C, and FR channels, or in reverse. The effect isn't that noticeable during regular play, just when continuous sounds pan around. Imaging between the "speaker channels" is improved with a DSP program enabled, because SC seems to put a little crosstalk between the "channels." This makes that echo sound described in other virtual surround processors (Mad & Nameless, it sounds basically just like DH in the Crysis video), but I found you can actually go into the DSP settings and adjust the strength of the effect... I found that -3 "Db" on the "Action Game" DSP is a compromise I can live with. Others may prefer more attenuation, the DSP off altogether, or boosted... Yay adjustability! 
Still, if I could put Creative's THX TruStudio Pro in there instead of Silent Cinema, I would prefer that, but I'll test out double-amping with the Recon3D USB sometime this week.

Playing a music CD (Andrew Bird's "Armchair Apocrypha") through the Xbox, with the Yamaha set to "Straight," was wonderful... The best I've ever heard this album.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





cytosis said:


> Which amp is the best to pair up with the AD700's?  I was reading up on the reviews that are at the start of this thread and it looks like the Astro mix-amp is the better of the amps but I can't find a place that sells it by itself (404 error on the Astro store).  Are there any amps that compare to the mix-amp or are the Astros the best and should I just wait until they fix their webpage?


 
  The ATH-AD700 are every easy to drive, even for an unamped headphone jack.
  I'm assuming your getting the Astro Mix-amp for a gaming console?
  Because you need headphone surround sound for gaming?
   
  You could just plug the ATH-AD700 into the line-out/Headphone jack (2-channel audio) on the gaming console until you get the Astro Mix-amp.
  If you really want to use a headphone amplifier for now, get the Fiio E6 ($26), it come with a headphone jack with a very low impedance,
  which might help with audio quality over some line-out jack (high impedance).
   
  Fiio E6, $26
  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=819633&Q=&is=REG&A=details
   
  You might need a long 3.5mm male to male cable.
  (You can also order extra optical and USB cables (different lengths) for the Astro mix-Amp)
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218#1021802


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> The ATH-AD700 are every easy to drive, even for an unamped headphone jack.
> I'm assuming your getting the Astro Mix-amp for a gaming console?
> Because you need headphone surround sound for gaming?
> 
> ...




^ This is basically what I did for three years with my AD700, until I got my Q701 and Recon3D recently. I used an RCA-to-3.5mm mini headphone adapter, plugged that into my FiiO E5 (predecessor to the upgraded E6), and my AD700 plugged in to that. It worked quite well, if I heard an enemy creaking the floorboards in my left ear, I turned that way to look for them (map knowledge helped too). $25 for the FiiO, like a dollar for the adapter. I even got pretty far by using a female-to-female adapter, no amp, and turning down the in-game volume through the game options menu, though the FiiO amp certainly was more convenient and had other uses as well.

PurpleAngel,
I was actually wondering, how do you have your receiver set up for SC? I've found the manual somewhat brief when it comes to headphone surround :/


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ^ This is basically what I did for three years with my AD700, until I got my Q701 and Recon3D recently. I used an RCA-to-3.5mm mini headphone adapter, plugged that into my FiiO E5 (predecessor to the upgraded E6), and my AD700 plugged in to that. It worked quite well, if I heard an enemy creaking the floorboards in my left ear, I turned that way to look for them (map knowledge helped too). $25 for the FiiO, like a dollar for the adapter. I even got pretty far by using a female-to-female adapter, no amp, and turning down the in-game volume through the game options menu, though the FiiO amp certainly was more convenient and had other uses as well.
> PurpleAngel,
> I was actually wondering, how do you have your receiver set up for SC? I've found the manual somewhat brief when it comes to headphone surround :/


 
  I just plug in the headphone and click on the"Movie' button until I find a setting that looks close enough to what I'm watching.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, that's basically what I ended up doing, though I liked turning down the strength of whatever movie "scene mode" I found for less echo. I'm not sure I understand what the "5ch stereo" mode does, though it seems everything is majorly recessed so much that I can't tell if it's 5channel surround or just a funny stereo setting!


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ok, that's basically what I ended up doing, though I liked turning down the strength of whatever movie "scene mode" I found for less echo. I'm not sure I understand what the "5ch stereo" mode does, though it seems everything is majorly recessed so much that I can't tell if it's 5channel surround or just a funny stereo setting!


 
   
  5ch Stereo plays the left channel in the front and rear left, and the right channel in the front and rear right, then it mixes the 2 for the center channel.
   
  -Erik


----------



## ruuku

chicolom said:


> I get the feeling people might be blowing this whole new mixamp hissing thing out of proportion.  If it's anything like the wireless mixamp, the hiss is a non-issue 95% of the time.  It's one of those things you have to go out of your way to listen for, like sitting at the dashboard with the volume cranked up above normal listening level.
> 
> The same thing happened when people found out they _could_ hear hiss on the mixamp 5.8.   People would start ruling it out, saying _"I WAS going to get the wireless mixamp, but then I read about 'the hiss'.  I guess I need to get the wired one instead..."_
> 
> If you have really sensitive headphones like the AD700, then hiss might be a concern.  Otherwise most headphones above 60 ohms will usually bury any hiss anyways.




Agree 100%... I just tested the 2011 Mixamp for hiss, and I really don't believe that the Xbox dashboard is the way to do this, as the menu system itself is pretty noisy. There's a intermittent electronic noise which sounds like harddrive access... Regardless this is only noticeable at very loud, and to me, unreasonable volumes. Of course if you're looking for it all of these devices are going to have a higher floor noise than say a truly audiophile source/amp. We need to remember that we're dealing with sub $200 audio processors with built in amps. If it doesn't effect you during gameplay, then why should you let it bother you at all?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Agree 100%... I just tested the 2011 Mixamp for hiss, and I really don't believe that the Xbox dashboard is the way to do this, as the menu system itself is pretty noisy. There's a intermittent electronic noise which sounds like harddrive access... Regardless this is only noticeable at very loud, and to me, unreasonable volumes. Of course if you're looking for it all of these devices are going to have a higher floor noise than say a truly audiophile source/amp. We need to remember that we're dealing with sub $200 audio processors with built in amps. If it doesn't effect you during gameplay, then why should you let it bother you at all?


 
   
  The fact I was making regarding the newer mixamp is that it has a higher floor noise than the 2009 version. When I cranked them both to max volumes, the 2009 version didn't display the hiss present in the 2013 version. I agree with the fact we are using extremely cheap audio processors in the grand scheme of things.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

Got the tracking number for my amp today! :O
It's taken so long that it's almost hard to believe, if you get my meaning. Only problem is, I don't know what mail service the tracking number is for, so I can't actually track it :/ if it's not one thing... I tried just pasting it into USPS, no joy, I don't know what service the amp builder used out of Latvia. UPS or FedEx seem doubtful, too.

The tracking number is 13 digits long and starts with RS, anyone have any ideas?
RS*********LV


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Got the tracking number for my amp today! :O
> It's taken so long that it's almost hard to believe, if you get my meaning. Only problem is, I don't know what mail service the tracking number is for, so I can't actually track it :/ if it's not one thing... I tried just pasting it into USPS, no joy, I don't know what service the amp builder used out of Latvia. UPS or FedEx seem doubtful, too.
> The tracking number is 13 digits long and starts with RS, anyone have any ideas?
> RS*********LV


 
  Try pasting it into google. If that doesn't work, try www.packagetrackr.com/
   
  Also, looks like the Monoprice headset got pushed back to 12/1  Can't wait to see how it stacks up to the mixamp.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> Try pasting it into google. If that doesn't work, try www.packagetrackr.com/
> 
> Also, looks like the Monoprice headset got pushed back to 12/1  Can't wait to see how it stacks up to the mixamp.
> 
> -Erik



Google = no results
Packagetrackr.com says the service is Parcelforce, but has no shipping status. Jumping directly to the Parcelforce page and pasting in the tracking number, the site says they can't confirm the status of that number. I guess that's reasonable considering the builder sent me an email with the number at just 8:45pm (my time) last night, and it's only been 15 hours since then. Not sure why it's going through a UK service... but at least the site is in English!

Thanks for the link to packagetrackr.com


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my 'cheaper DT990/600 today (returning the one I got a few weeks ago, since it was $70 more). The only thing... the older one sounds cleaner. Oh lawl. The new one has a slightly warmer sound, but the vocals aren't as exact forward as the old one. The plus is that the new one DEFINITELY has more bass, so I guess it's a good tradeoff. It's pretty noticeable there. The old one sounded leaner, though more balanced. Almost like this one is like the 250ohm. I regretted not sticking to the 250ohm, but now, it seems I get the best of both worlds.

The difference is minute overall, but I'm able to A/B them due to my SA-31 having two 1/4" inputs. Perhaps it's 'burn in' too? Not that I believe in it, but maybe if the new one has as much time as I put on the old one, it will sound closer to it. 

In any case, it's still solid. Just a very minor difference, except the bass being definitely stronger. That $70 back in my pocket outweighs the difference in sound, and I do want the bass on the new one.

It could also be a slight ohm variation, making the old one a little louder than the new one at the same volume setting on my amp. Slightly louder would make one perceive more clarity, so it's possible. The new one is more fun, without a doubt.



BTW, my HD650 finally shipped. E-E must be back on it's feet after Hurricane Sandy. NJ got hit hard, so I wasn't expecting them to be shipped anytime soon.


----------



## l00l

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, actually, I'm not sure the E17 docked to the E9K will be able to use the E17's bass and treble controls for a device plugged into the RCA input, as you have to manually switch the E9K's switch from dock to AUX IN, meaning it no longer takes in the E17's current signal.
> If it's the bass/treble control is important for Mixamp gaming, you COULD just plug in from your Mixamp to the E17's Aux in, and then from the E17's headphone jack to the E9K's aux in. This sounds like it's triple amped, and it is. HOWEVER, the E17/E9K uses both amps ANYWAYS when you try to use the E17's bass/treble controls (by switching from the E17's bypass button to go to pre-amp mode). Even if it was docked, you'd still be using both the E17 and E9K's amping... not to mention the Mixamp's. The only difference here is that the E17 can't be docked when you're using the Mixamp. Dock it when you're NOT gaming.
> So for you...
> Mixamp - E17 - 3.5mm to RCA cable - E9K's Aux In
> IF you don't need the bass/treble control when gaming, you can just leave the E17 docked, as you won't be using it at all.


 
  Thank you.
   
  So what is it that you would recommend? Getting the E9K or the E17, or both?
  I would use it mainly for TV and gaming (Blu Ray, Xbox 360, televion, Astro Mixamp wired) and of course for music as well (iPod, MacBook) although music does clearly play a lesser role.


----------



## lubczyk

Is the Astro A40 a decent enough headset for gaming only? I might upgrade to a headphone later (UE6000, MDR-1R or Tiesto K267). How good of a headset is it in sound and voice quality when comparing just headset functions?


----------



## Bunchies

Finally got my (working) pair of Q701's. Quick question for you guys - do you recommend hooking it up to a really old, kinda cruddy receiver? I'm not rocking a sound card atm on my computer, and the receiver can pump up the volume slightly higher than the computer can do by itself, but I'm afraid of damaging the actual headphones.


----------



## ruuku

lubczyk said:


> Is the Astro A40 a decent enough headset for gaming only? I might upgrade to a headphone later (UE6000, MDR-1R or Tiesto K267). How good of a headset is it in sound and voice quality when comparing just headset functions?



Short answer: in reference to any regular user of this forum, no. Positional accuracy is ok, sq is lacking. You'll find a better headset in Tritton's AX720s than in the A40s. If your needing a regular headset (in the most traditional sense) the PC360 delivers much better results for slightly more $.



bunchies said:


> Finally got my (working) pair of Q701's. Quick question for you guys - do you recommend hooking it up to a really old, kinda cruddy receiver? I'm not rocking a sound card atm on my computer, and the receiver can pump up the volume slightly higher than the computer can do by itself, but I'm afraid of damaging the actual headphones.




Keeping in mind the difference between power and volume, your receiver should be able to drive the headphones more capably then an onboard soundcard, though I would turn it down at any signs of prolonged distortion/clipping. The Q's are labeled as difficult to drive not in terms of volume, but actual power requirements, but this doesn't mean that they won't get loud without a proper source amp.


----------



## chroniX

So I just bought the DT 990 Premium / 600 ohm -- most money I ever spent on headphones. I hope it will be worth it.

Mad do you still have the E9? If so, could you compare the 990 600 ohm with it versus your new amp. Like, would the E9 be enough to drive the 990s?

And I'm assuming I should use the high gain switch, right?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chronix said:


> And I'm assuming I should use the high gain switch, right?


 
   
  If you run out of volume knob, then yeah.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In the case of the E9, you wanna use whatever gets you between 9-12 on the volume knob. For me, both low and high gain do that, so I use whichever got me between 10-11.

I recently compared the E9K and SA-31. There were differences, as in the SA31 being more natural and fuller bodied, but it wasnt a drastic one. The 990/600 off the E9 will be dry and slightly harsh, but it drives them well, IMHO. The 990s benefit more from warmth and a smooth amp than more power than the E9 provides. The E9 is pretty neutral and dry to begin with. So its a great amp for higher than 80ohm headphones if you want neutrality. I preferred my E9 over the NFB5 for my warmer headphones, like the D7000 which technically shouldnt be a good pairing due to the D7000's low impedance.

I thought the 990s sounded damn good off the E9 and E9K if you dont have anything else. Later on, you can invest on a warmer amp, probably a tube amp, which will make the 990 even better.

I'd like another E9k as my secondary amp.


----------



## HEISTT

Hey all! Largely based on your extensive thread Mad Envy, I've gone ahead and bought myself a pair of HD598's. Thanks for the effort you put into this! I'm new to this whole audiophile thing but have done some serious reading the last few days. I'm not really an audiophile myself (although this 1 song I listened to yesterday sounded amazing with the HD598 on), and the main reason I bought a good pair of headphones is for gaming. I mostly play FPS games (Modern Warfare 3, soon Black Ops 2 and the comptetitive sandbox MMO Darkfall Unholy Wars which is coming out this month as well). The reason why I went for the HD 598 is because it should offer pinpoint accuracy as to where enemies around me are located based on sound cues of the game.
   
  Currently I've attached the HD598 to my on-board sound card, but today my Asus Xonar DG will come with the mail and I want to jump into a game as quick as I can and test the new setup out. Once I install the Xonar DG onto my computer and plug the HD598 into it, is there anything else I need to do (like configuring the sound card or equalizer) in order to achieve the pinpoint accuracy many have been praising the HD598 for?
   
  Thanks again for the wealth of information that can be found in this thread!


----------



## calpis

Just make sure that in your xonar settings that the source/input is set to 5.1/7.1 and then set output to headphone/dolby headphone. I used this on my xonar u1 but it should be the same for the DG.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Looking for some very cheap closed headphones and I guess it comes down to DT770 80 Ohms? Any other alternative? I would like to try the MDR-1R but not much known about it and I don't like misusing Amazon for testing. What do you think?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Looking for some very cheap closed headphones and I guess it comes down to DT770 80 Ohms? Any other alternative? I would like to try the MDR-1R but not much known about it and I don't like misusing Amazon for testing. What do you think?


 
  How cheao?
   
  Takstar Pro 80, $88 on eBay.


----------



## raband

Hey again guys - quick query that's slightly OT but I'm sure someone here will have an answer for.

Using the mixamp and loving it on my PC for gaming 

My query is with watching movies (dvd's mainly)

What settings should I be making in my video player to get the best surround audio?

I use Potplayer (preferably), but can also use MPC or VLC.

Is the default settings correct or should I make some changes?

I seem to get it close to correct (but not quite) and then mess it up trying to get it 100%


----------



## Suopermanni

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Looking for some very cheap closed headphones and I guess it comes down to DT770 80 Ohms? Any other alternative? I would like to try the MDR-1R but not much known about it and I don't like misusing Amazon for testing. What do you think?


 
   
  I think there's the Samson brand of phones that go for rather cheap. From what I've seen, the 600 and 850 are popular among them.


----------



## ruuku

suopermanni said:


> I think there's the Samson brand of phones that go for rather cheap. From what I've seen, the 600 and 850 are popular among them.




Samson's are open...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Added ruuku's notes on the Mixamp and 5.8 to the guide.

So I decided to eat that $70 difference and keep the old 990s. They sound cleaner, airier and more 'high end' than the new ones. The new ones sound DT990 Pro bass heavy, which is a good thing, but the vocals are noticeably more recessed than the other pair. I weighed in the pros and cons, and I felt the more balanced 990 makes more sense, as I need them for competitive gaming too. The other one had just a teeny bit too much bass bloat.

Sigh, the life of an audiophile. Costs me $80 more after all is said an done, for a less than 3% difference. Lol.


----------



## ronswanson

so the 5.8 mixamp requires an optional 3.5mm to usb cable for ps3/pc voice chat?  you can't just use the normal usb ports that are already there, like you can with the wired 2011/2013 mixamps?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. It has to be that specific cable (at least for the PS3).


----------



## Wulven

Hey guys,I am a newbie to headphone.I am looking for a balance headphone under $150 for playing BF3 and watching movie on my PC.
 I have a ASUS Xonar DGX soundcard which support DH. What headphones do you guys suggest? 
 Thanks guys.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





wulven said:


> Hey guys,I am a newbie to headphone.I am looking for a balance headphone under $150 for playing BF3 and watching movie on my PC.
> I have a ASUS Xonar DGX sound card which support DH. What headphones do you guys suggest?
> Thanks guys.


 
  A used ($110-$140) Sennheiser HD558, sold on Amazon.
   
  Try the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from the website BrainBit.


----------



## TMRaven

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1351958502&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live


----------



## chroniX

Mad, just ask amazon to price match it for you. I'm sure they wouldn't mind doing so.


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Added ruuku's notes on the Mixamp and 5.8 to the guide.
> So I decided to eat that $70 difference and keep the old 990s. They sound cleaner, airier and more 'high end' than the new ones. The new ones sound DT990 Pro bass heavy, which is a good thing, but the vocals are noticeably more recessed than the other pair. I weighed in the pros and cons, and I felt the more balanced 990 makes more sense, as I need them for competitive gaming too. The other one had just a teeny bit too much bass bloat.
> Sigh, the life of an audiophile. Costs me $80 more after all is said an done, for a less than 3% difference. Lol.


 
   
  It's an epidemic in this forum. LOL
  Once you got a taste...
   
  Unfortunately, the only cure would probably be an empty wallet.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> It's an epidemic in this forum. LOL
> Once you got a taste...
> 
> Unfortunately, the only cure would probably be an empty wallet.


 
  No sadly an empty wallet is not the cure... as that leads to the selling of Cars and Windows  which means were all DOOOOOMED
   
  But, yar I really want them Dt 990s... any one wanna let me Demo for a day or two 
   
  ALSO, I fixed mah Foo Bar, those VST wrapers do NOT LIKE my pc... everytime I use them I lose Audio in my mmos... which means I can't game with SFX and my own BGM... it's either FooBar or game, BOTH could NOT send Audio out
   
  So I just reinstalled FooBar minus the VST wrappers and Eltri-Q... so the stock EQ is enough for me tbh
   
  ACTUALLY, there is ONE SOLUTION to spending money... there is this ANNOYING DJ that LOVES to sing over Old School Dub Step tunes... I FREAKING SWEAR, if he lived in my wallet I would  NEVER spend any money EVER again... simple because I just hate his voice SO MUCH... like seriously brev... it's Benga... HE DOES NOT NEED YOU TO RAP OVER HIS FREAKING MUSIC... stupid dj e.e
   
  BUT HE could stop my money spending....


----------



## Wulven

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> A used ($110-$140) Sennheiser HD558, sold on Amazon.
> 
> Try the "Unified Xonar Drivers" from the website BrainBit.


 
  Unluckily,I am not live in US and that item can be shipped only within US


----------



## Makiah S

Well I can happily say my pc can emulate the Gamecube at 100% fps, I'm FINALLY playing through Tales of Symphonia again,,, because beating it 7 times in a row is NOT enough.
   
  In edtion I'm going to try and emulate the Ps2 while im at it, so I can play all the other tales games! Wish me luck, and the dt 880s are very nice for Pc gaming ;3


----------



## Kashtan

Only online games (WOT) - that the best?
  HE-500
  HD600
  AD900
  ?
  And headphone processor?


----------



## genclaymore

The best thing you can do is go some where that let you try out the headphones. That way you can use your ears and pick what sounds good to you.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





kashtan said:


> Only online games (WOT) - that the best?
> HE-500
> HD600
> AD900
> ...


 
  whoa whoa... no Dt 880 on that list :[ The Dt 880 is nice for games I think! And I play all my games on my Dt 880s and I do enjoy them, but teh HD 600 is another good pick. And the HE 500 should be the best pick but ofc it's the most expensive [although I'm not sure how the HE500 does with games... as it's really awesome for actual music] e.e
  Quote: 





genclaymore said:


> The best thing you can do is go some where that let you try out the headphones. That way you can use your ears and pick what sounds good to you.


 
  but yea this is the best advice! But my ears like RPG music... although I don't play games with thier natrual BGMS, rather I play with in game SFX them blast lossless quality BGMS in foobar :x so I like music orientated cans for my Rpgs as opposed to those with enough sound stage to make the sound of some guy crepping up on you from behind in a FPS


----------



## ronswanson

When you guys buy used headphones, do you put new ear pads on them? I assume condition is a factor too.


----------



## ruuku

All of my Hp's were bought used off the forum, but 2/3 were like new. The AD900 pads are pretty worn, but thankfully, replacements from AT USA were pretty cheap ($16 including s/h). I've heard of other members of the forum getting free replacements awhile ago, but it seems I'm not so lucky. In any case some pads are quite costly like for the HD600/650s which are ~$50.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> When you guys buy used headphones, do you put new ear pads on them? I assume condition is a factor too.


 
   
  If they're like new, I wouldn't do anything.  Otherwise I would just wash them.  If they're ripped up then I'd consider new ones.
   
  Some headphones have really expensive ear pads though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All the used ones I have bought were like new, and the pads even smelled new. The K701 is the only can I bought on Head-fi. I just used a rag to wipe off excess dirt. No problems anyways. If they're filthy, either wash them or get replacements.


----------



## Makiah S

So guys any good jRpgs I should play! Espically ones that benifit from the great sound of my Dt 880s


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Well I can happily say my pc can emulate the Gamecube at 100% fps, I'm FINALLY playing through Tales of Symphonia again,,, because beating it 7 times in a row is NOT enough.
> 
> In edtion I'm going to try and emulate the Ps2 while im at it, so I can play all the other tales games! Wish me luck, and the dt 880s are very nice for Pc gaming ;3


 
   
  The GameCube's not too difficult to emulate in my experience, on a Q6600 3 GHz/8800 GT system. Wii games, on the other hand, demand more than my system can deliver for a constant 60 FPS.
   
  Same with PCSX2 and 3D games in general. It's a big reason why I bit the bullet and just bought a CECHA (original 60 GB model, full hardware PS2 compatibility) PS3, which should be here in the next week. I'll have to work on it when it arrives (don't want to risk YLOD), but by the time I finish changing the thermal paste and everything, it should run cool and reliably for years to come.
   
  Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> When you guys buy used headphones, do you put new ear pads on them? I assume condition is a factor too.


 
   
  I thought about doing that with my SR-Lambda, but replacement Stax pads aren't exactly cheap (frequently around $60-100 for a pair of Lambda pads, with genuine leather pads for models like SR-404LE and SR-507 generally breaching the $100 mark), nor are they easy to just swap out at will due to being stuck on the baffle with a pre-cut piece of double-sided tape.
   
  As it stands, it's comfortable enough as-is with the prior owner having attached some cloth strips to the original pad's contact areas with some double-sided tape.


----------



## HalidePisces

mshenay said:


> So guys any good jRpgs I should play! Espically ones that benifit from the great sound of my Dt 880s




JRPGs generally don't exactly demand positioning. There's probably a few action RPGs where that might be pretty in. For music in general, Ar Tonelico's got an awesome soundtrack so you might want to try that.

I remember one of the earlier PS2 Atelier games had sound setting in the options. Don't remember if the setting went up to 4.0 or 5.1 speakers. I think it was Atelier Viorate, but don't hold me to it. Definitely pre-Iris though.

Speaking of JRPGs, I gotta go finish Tales of Symphonia on PS2. Never got around to finishing that.

*EDIT:* There looks like a nice poem or something in your avatar, Mshenay. I can't read it due to the crap resolution. You got a larger picture of that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tried emulating Symphonia (Dolphin) but the sound was jacked up. Any tips?


----------



## Gallade475

MLE, I think astro is wrapping up independent sale of the mixamp and exclusively selling it with the a30/40 headset. 'tis a sad day in audiophile gaming. Now the minimum price is 200 dollars for the mixamp plus the cancerous a30 headset.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





gallade475 said:


> MLE, I think astro is wrapping up independent sale of the mixamp and exclusively selling it with the a30/40 headset. 'tis a sad day in audiophile gaming. Now the minimum price is 200 dollars for the mixamp plus the cancerous a30 headset.


 
   
  What makes you say that?  i heard they were going to sell them standalone again in December...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard the A30s are pretty good. I mean it sucks if we couldnt buy the Mixamp alone anymore though.


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I heard the A30s are pretty good. I mean it sucks if we couldnt buy the Mixamp alone anymore though.


 
  Agreed. In a headphone buying guide posted on this site, whoever wrote it said they preferred the A30s to the A40s! Ha!
   
  By the way, I made a video comparing my experience between the old and the new Astro A40s. You guys can check it out if you want


----------



## chicolom

I'm betting the A30s sound less hollow.


----------



## chroniX

My DT990/600 is getting here on friday....i'm very excited to try them and a bit worried at the same time. Excited to see if this will blow me away and worried that it might not make a significant enough difference to justify the price. 

It's kinda funny how this forum skews are our views on prices lol. A year ago I would have never foreseen myself dropping $100 on headphones much less $200.

Guess I'll find out soon enough if it was worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

upsidedownace said:


> Agreed. In a headphone buying guide posted on this site, whoever wrote it said they preferred the A30s to the A40s! Ha!
> 
> By the way, I made a video comparing my experience between the old and the new Astro A40s. You guys can check it out if you want




Holy cow dude, you have a radio DJ's voice! Your voice is basically perfect for these sorts of reviews. 

Very nice comparison. 

Sounded professional, yet like a buddy telling their friend about the Mixamp. Awesome. 

I wonder how much hiss the new one has compared to the 5.8. The 5.8's hiss is basically a non-issue even during quiet scenes.

Probably like AX720 hiss?


My HD650 will be coming hopefully tomorrow or Tuesday. I sincerely hope I become a fan and join this appreciation thread. 



I'm literally gonna compare tonal balance to the KSC*3*5, which is similar to the KSC75, but warmer. If the HD650 sounds like a super KSC35, I will be QUITE happy. I know these graphs aren't ever truly accurate, but it's interesting to see anyways. The KSC35 being slightly warmer than the KSC75, would put them to have a similar signature to the HD650, lower bass aside. We'll see.


----------



## ronswanson

So the hiss on the 2013 mix amp only starts at 60% volume. What is a normal listening volume for you guys? Does the 5.8 hiss start to become noticeable at around the same 60% mark?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Though it's headphone to headphone basis. Some headphones hiss more than others. The D7000 being super sensitive hissed quite a bit more than the Beyers.

The Q701 had very low levels of hiss. In any case, hiss was never distracting like it could be on the AX720's amp.


----------



## I95North

kashtan said:


> Only online games (WOT) - that the best?
> HE-500
> HD600
> AD900
> ...




Hi Kas as far as the HE-500 if your trying to do fps games for positional accuracy look elsewhere because the HE-500 is bad in that area but excels at everything else.. 

Headphone processor?? If your saying best virtual surround for headphones there is no best it's all about what works for you just do your homework n read reviews. There are quite a few decoders out there and google can be your friend if you let it..


----------



## Gallade475

Since you have the hd650 now can we have ourselves a hd650 entry in your guide?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I tried emulating Symphonia (Dolphin) but the sound was jacked up. Any tips?


 
   
  There's a more accurate sound plugin option in Dolphin that might fix it, but it requires you to dump some DSP files from a real GameCube or Wii. It's also more hardware-intensive to use than the other options, predictably. (Emulation's always a big tradeoff between speed and accuracy.)
   
  Quote: 





kashtan said:


> Only online games (WOT) - that the best?
> HE-500
> HD600
> AD900
> ...


 
   
  Your wallet's going to hate me for these suggestions, but you asked for the best and didn't state a budget...
   
  -A Stax Lambda-series setup, any of them. They're not on MLE's list, but I have yet to find anything better for competitive gaming. Spacious soundstage, unbelievable clarity, and comfortable for hours on end (vintage sets moreso due to lower clamping force, but modern sets like the SR-303 aren't too bad with soft earpads). The flagship SR-Omega/SR-007/SR-009 may be even better, but the Lambda setups are expensive enough as-is when factoring in the amplifier requirements all electrostatics have.
  -A Smyth Realiser A8, with a recording made in the theater of your choice. (You need to make a recording with the included earbud microphones to get the most out of it.) They also come bundled with a basic Stax setup by default, and for good reason.


----------



## UpsideDownAce

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> So the hiss on the 2013 mix amp only starts at 60% volume. What is a normal listening volume for you guys? Does the 5.8 hiss start to become noticeable at around the same 60% mark?


 
  I usually played at 50%. When I was feeling like I wanted to be able to hear footsteps better, I would crank it up to around 70. Not sure about the 5.8 though.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Holy cow dude, you have a radio DJ's voice! Your voice is basically perfect for these sorts of reviews.
> Very nice comparison.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks!  I would do more of them if I had money haha. I wanted to try out the AX720, but I can't seem to find them anywhere.


----------



## washu9

namelesspfg said:


> .
> -A Stax Lambda-series setup, any of them. They're not on MLE's list, but I have yet to find anything better for competitive gaming. Spacious soundstage, unbelievable clarity, and comfortable for hours on end (vintage sets moreso due to lower clamping force, but modern sets like the SR-303 aren't too bad with soft earpads). The flagship SR-Omega/SR-007/SR-009 may be even better, but the Lambda setups are expensive enough as-is when factoring in the amplifier requirements all electrostatics have.
> -A Smyth Realiser A8, with a recording made in the theater of your choice. (You need to make a recording with the included earbud microphones to get the most out of it.) They also come bundled with a basic Stax setup by default, and for good reason.




You're forgetting a Blue Hawai electrostatic amp to power that headphone 
Also might need a DTS/Dolby decoder for connecting that Smyth Realizer A8 to anything other than a PC.

I d say it'd easily exceed $10.000. Maybe nearing or already exceeding $15.000 if you account for transport, insurance, and customs costs for some countries.

Well,... At least it still costs less than the OLED 4k monitor that costs as much as a mid sized car.
If I ever have that kind of money. Maybe I would just make a sound isolated dome shaped room especially for gaming, covered with 8.2 top of the line speakers-sub integrated into the walls...LOL... Maybe looking like Star Trek astro lab, or X men cerebro room... Now that I think about it, make the room underground. LOL.

Sorry, my daydreaming is getting out of control.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Does anyone know if the 2013 a40 drivers are in the a50's?  I would love if they cloned the a30 driver and made it a larger 40mm or even 50mm driver and put it in the a40's or 50's.  I think the a30's sound way better but not as open (due to the headphone itself im guessing) compared to the a40's and not as comfortable.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





washu9 said:


> You're forgetting a Blue Hawaii electrostatic amp to power that headphone
> Also might need a DTS/Dolby decoder for connecting that Smyth Realizer A8 to anything other than a PC.
> I d say it'd easily exceed $10.000. Maybe nearing or already exceeding $15.000 if you account for transport, insurance, and customs costs for some countries.
> Well,... At least it still costs less than the OLED 4k monitor that costs as much as a mid sized car.
> ...


 
   
  The Blue Hawaii SE would be really nice, but presumably overkill for a Lambda like I was recommending. I would be happy if I could just get my hands on an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or maybe an SRM-T1, but even those typically run $350-550 these days. And yet that's downright affordable compared to the KGSSHV, BHSE, etc. that people generally pair with the SR-007 or SR-009...
   
  As for the Realiser A8's inability to decode Dolby Digital or DTS, it's largely a moot point when it has HDMI input (yes, honest-to-goodness HDMI input on a surround processor!) and all of the HD consoles should provide 8-channel LPCM output by default. 5th-and-6th-gen consoles will need a Dolby Pro Logic II and Dolby Digital decoder box, though...
   
  Unfortunately, top-of-the-line anything is going to cost ridiculous amounts of money...a Sony G70 or Barco Cine 9 triple-CRT projector for the ultimate theater setup won't come cheap, especially paired with an HDfury4/3Dfury for HDMI 1.4's sake. Then the speaker system...two Quad ESL-57s or ESL-63s are expensive enough as is, but imagine putting 6 or 8 of the things in the room, along with amplification for them all...
   
  And this isn't even getting started on the simulator cockpits I'd like to build, either! A full F-16C cockpit would be doable with existing parts on the market, at least, but I'll have to get my hands dirty fabricating some things for the A-10C and especially the Ka-50. (Just as a point of reference, a top-of-the-line HOTAS generally costs $500, with equally high-quality rudder pedals going for another $350. Then add another $150 or so for a TrackIR 5, $2,000 for a top-of-the-line computer that can handle the DCS series maxed-out, $250 for a tactile transducer seat, and god knows how much for the other simpit switches, screens and components...)
   
  ...yeah, way too much stuff, not enough money.


----------



## FlatOut

Hello guys, very interested in your thread and in your opinion. Had my sony wireless stereo headset 7.1 broken .Wanted a new headset but many people say to buy a good headphones and amic to it. But if it possible to find good headset it`ll be better solution. Got about 150$. I have standart pc audiocard, but if need i can buy something better. As i read people recommened AT AD700/A700, BD DT 770 Pro 80 etc. I love to playing FPS`s,MMORPG`s and listen to music, also i do look some movies. About my music preferences: i can say that its rock,metall, dubstep. I had a luck in bass with my prevous sony headset so i need it a bit more. I spend more time on listening to music instead of playing and i listen to it most of my playing time. I`d like the headphones to be comfartable, as i spend about 6 hours per day in it. Thanks in advice! BTW, i`ve already have AT ATH-ES7, i use them with my player and i love it.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

^put a subwoofer in your chair.  you and your mom will be happy


----------



## DoctaCosmos

that was not meant to be an insult or negative in anyway.  Just for laughs


----------



## ruuku

flatout said:


> Hello guys, very interested in your thread and in your opinion. Had my sony wireless stereo headset 7.1 broken .Wanted a new headset but everywhere people say buy a good headphones and a mic to it.But if it possible to find good headset it`ll be better. So i started looking for something new. Got about 150$. I have standart pc audiocard (good if it connectable to my phone), but if needed i can change it. As i read people recommened AT AD700/A700, BD DT 770 Pro 80 etc. I love to playing FPS`s,MMORPG`s ans listen to music, also look some movies. About my music i can say that its rock,metall, dubstep. I had a luck in bass with my sony headset so i need it more. I spend more listening to music instead of playing and most of the time listening to it when playing. Comfartable should be good, because i spend about 6 hours per day in it. Thanks in advice!




You probably need to raise that budget by about $50-100, as I assume tht you don't have a Dolby decoder. While it's not exactly necessary for getting sound out of your pc/ps3 this whole thread is dedicated to it use in conjunction with higher end headphones.

In regards to your listed headphones the safest and probably most budget minded option would be a pair of dt770pro80ohm. These are the least power hungry, bass oriented, affordable headphones that pair well with Dolby headphone. Of course they'll preform better with a dedicated amp, but can be driven off the mixamp on its own relatively well. I would avoid the ad700s if bass is at all a requirement in your listening experience.

Also please take the time to double check your grammar/spelling. It will not only make your posts more readable, but also might encourage people to give advice/opinions.


----------



## Jay 23

does anyone know if during black friday they have any good deals on gaming headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jay 23 said:


> does anyone know if during black friday they have any good deals on gaming headphones?


 
  I'm sure they will, somewhere.


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> You probably need to raise that budget by about $50-100, as I assume tht you don't have a Dolby decoder. While it's not exactly necessary for getting sound out of your pc/ps3 this whole thread is dedicated to it use in conjunction with higher end headphones.
> In regards to your listed headphones the safest and probably most budget minded option would be a pair of dt770pro80ohm. These are the least power hungry, bass oriented, affordable headphones that pair well with Dolby headphone. Of course they'll preform better with a dedicated amp, but can be driven off the mixamp on its own relatively well. I would avoid the ad700s if bass is at all a requirement in your listening experience.
> Also please take the time to double check your grammar/spelling. It will not only make your posts more readable, but also might encourage people to give advice/opinions.




I dunno man, I think he knew exactly what he was looking for in a com*fart*able headphone 

Btw, general update everyone... I didn't say, but the amp shipped out Wednesday last week, should arrive sometime next week, possibly longer because USPS mail jumps all around my neighborhood before actually going out for delivery. Also, looking forward to the Halo 4 release tonight! I'll drop some campaign sound impressions tonight, but no competitive multiplayer sadly... FedEx said they were choosing a different candidate to fill the position I applied for, so no regular Internet yet. Going to Panera and the library to schlep some free wifi and apply for jobs online (which is every job) has become too much of a nuisance, so I sprung for AT&T's cheapest data for iPad plan ($15).

Feeding the Recon3D through my Yamaha receiver via a headphone plug male-to-male cable was excellent, the extra amping made bass and soundstage became much more defined and fun overall than just with the Recon3D, but a little more smooth than plugging the Xbox directly into the receiver. A worthwhile trade off – I miss my receiver already, packed back away now that the Momster is back from her weeklong vacation, and I am heartily anticipating my desktop headphone amp.


----------



## Hailin

Can't wait for Halo 4 but if 343 tied the music to the sound effects like Bungie did in Reach I will have second thoughts on buying it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I borrowed my cousin's 360 just so I could rent Halo 4 and beast through the campaign. Good thing she's a girl, lol.


The campaign is all I care about in Halo, and Halo 4's campaign looks amazing. Can't wait. Hopefully Redbox stocks the game quickly.

Oh yes, in my excitement, I read the email wrong. I get the HD650 TOMORROW, not today. :rolleyes:


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I borrowed my cousin's 360 just so I could rent Halo 4 and beast through the campaign. Good thing she's a girl, lol.
> The campaign is all I care about in Halo, and Halo 4's campaign looks amazing. Can't wait. Hopefully Redbox stocks the game quickly.
> Oh yes, in my excitement, I read the email wrong. I get the HD650 TOMORROW, not today.


 
   
  Once I pay through the campaign I'm planning on selling off my Xbox. I think that's the last game I care about for the system.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I borrowed my cousin's 360 just so I could rent Halo 4 and beast through the campaign. Good thing she's a girl, lol.
> *The campaign is all I care about in Halo*, and Halo 4's campaign looks amazing.


 
   
   
  I'm the same way.  I'm not a fan of the competitive multiplayer, but the campaigns can get pretty darn epic at times.  And they're tons of fun in co-op.
   
  Also, I have always and will always love driving the vehicles in Halo games.  Loved them since the very first time I got in warthog on Halo: CE and spent hours trying to ramp it off cliffs and run over my fellow marine buddies.    Who doesn't love filling up a warthog with marines then driving it over a cliff and sticking it with grenades?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm the same way.  I'm not a fan of the multiplayer, but the campaigns can get pretty darn epic at times.  And they're tons of fun in co-op.


 
   
  Head-fi co-op?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only games I mainly play for the multiplayer is Call of Duty. Everything else is purely single player, and maybe co-op. CoD's charm is in it's easy to play, hard to master playstyle, and frenetic fast pacing. I can't stomach other FPS games *online*. They tend to be too damn slow for me. Halo included.


----------



## chicolom

Halo does feel slow and I don't like the bunny hoping and shoot/melee stuff.  COD is fun, although I haven't played the multiplayer since MW2.  It seemed like some of the perks were getting out of hand and with all the gunships and stuff constantly raining hellfire down on the maps.  I haven't tried Battlefield 3 really, although I have it.
   
  I do love Gears multiplayer though.  It's an adrenaline rush.
   
  Co-op games are great though, and lots of fun.  I also love really immersive (and dark) single player games like Bioshock, Dead Space, Condemned, FEAR, etc.  That's where headphones really shine!


----------



## ruuku

Halo 3 MP was one of the main reasons why I bought a 360 in the first place, but like COD4 (and MW2 to some extent) the MP in later HALO/COD games seemed to lack the polish and "fun" factor that made 1, 2, & 3 so enjoyable. With the exception of sniper rifle shots, audio cues in Halo are also weak to me, though i guess the addition of a Radar means audio is secondary/tertiary.

On another note, got a replacement knob for the M-Stage... what do you guys think?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> On another note, got a replacement knob for the M-Stage... what do you guys think?


 
   

   
   
  It's big.


----------



## Eric_C

There's an M-Stage there?


----------



## Rebel975

Double


----------



## Rebel975

Looks like a Schiity volume knob to me...


----------



## washu9

Looks nice.  Very similar to the knob on my WA6SE.
  I'm a sucker for big volume knobs.  It allows for very fine volume adjustments.


----------



## Eric_C

^ Err... I think that may have more to do with headphone sensitivity.


----------



## ronswanson

Would you guys say the HD558 are closer in sound quality to the HD598 than the hd518?  I tested the HD518 and HD598 over the weekend, and didn't really like the 518 at all.  loved the 598.  
   
  The cost of the 558 is much more doable for me as a future upgrade for me than the 598.
   
  Also, this thread has been a great help to me guys.  so thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> Would you guys say the HD558 are closer in sound quality to the HD598 than the hd518?  I tested the HD518 and HD598 over the weekend, and didn't really like the 518 at all.  loved the 598.
> 
> The cost of the 558 is much more doable for me as a future upgrade for me than the 598.
> 
> Also, this thread has been a great help to me guys.  so thanks!


 
  The HD558 and the HD598 use the same drivers and responds well to an amplifier.
  The HD518 is designed more for "unamped" sources.
  So yea, get the HD558.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The HD558 and the HD598 use the same drivers and responds well to an amplifier.
> The HD518 is designed more for "unamped" sources.
> So yea, get the HD558.


 
  The astro mixamp by itself should be fine to drive that, right?


----------



## Vader2k

First off, thank you to to MLE for the extensive write-ups on so many headphones, and to everyone else that has given helpful info.  I use my '09 mixamp constantly (console gaming and movies), so this thread was exactly what I was looking for.
   
  I'm ugrading from a TB HPX headset, and I've settled on the DT 990 Pro paired with the FiiO E9K.  I have a question regarding cables.  My mixamp didn't come with a Y-cable, so when my mic died and I upgraded to the LVA 7330, I purchased Headset Buddy's Y-cable.  As I understand it, I'll need a 3.5mm male to RCA male cable to connect from the headphone jack of the Y-cable to the RCA-In on the E9K.  Can I buy the basic version of this cable, our would it be advised to get the premium gold plated one?  My guess is that if there will be any signal degradation, the basic Headset Buddy Y-cable would be the cable to introduce it, so the gold plated 3.5mm to RCA almost seems unnecessary.
   
  However, Headset Buddy does make a gold plated version of their Y-cable, so if the gold connectors are recommended, I could upgrade to that, and then get the gold plated 3.5mm to RCA from monoprice.
   
  Thanks for any feedback/recommendations.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get a decent cable that you can afford. I don't put much stock in cables, and I have tested silver cheap ones with some good monoprice, and mediabridge ones. They sound the same. I tend to get Mediabridge and Monoprice, because they look nice, lol.

I don't believe in the head-fi cable hype (amongst other things like op-amp rolling, SS amp differences, etc).

Oh yes, welcome to the thread. I hope you stick around and give us your input on the combo, etc.


----------



## Vader2k

Great, glad to hear it.  I'll happily save money where I can!
   
  Thanks for the welcome.  I'll be sure to give my thoughts once I get everything (still saving, but getting close!).  This will be my first step into higher end headphones, and I'm eager to give it a go.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First impression on the HD650 (music only)...

It's GREAT! If there is a veil, I'm definitely not hearing it. Treble is plentiful for me, the vocals are oh so lovely, and it has a very natural tone. More natural than the Q701.

The bass is nice too! It's not as fun as the DT990, but it's definitely nicee. The main star is definitely those mids.

I'm absolutely, completely, and pleasantly surprised. I really thought I wouldn't like them. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Don't have the HE400 to compare, but I can tell the HD650 has better mids, and the treble doesn't get peaky like it did on the HE400.

Chico, I'm 100% sure you would love the HD650. Think of a warmer, Q701, with less soundstage, but still spacious, and fuller bass.

The treble... absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Early verdict: I LOVE THEM!

As far as gaming goes... we'll have to see. All I know is that these are keepers, for sure. They are the best alternative to the DT990 I have heard. The HE400 is more of a competitor to the DT990 in that it's bass and treble more than mids (though way more natural sounding than the 990s, but less than desirable bass for my personal taste)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> First impression on the HD650 (music only)...
> 
> It's GREAT! If there is a veil, I'm definitely not hearing it. Treble is plentiful for me, the vocals are oh so lovely, and it has a very natural tone. More natural than the Q701.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Hmm....
   
  What made you pick the HD650 over the HD600?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Warmth, fuller bass. I heard the HD600 is more analytical. Sure it's neutral, but I wanted NATURAL. I wanted musicality and warmth. But those mids. OMG, you HAVE to hear them.

If you listen to your KSC35, think of the HD650 has slightly less bass bloat, with more mids. And obviously going from clip on to full size sound presentation. And a LOT of refinement.

I wouldn't keep the HD650 as my main music can as I prefer for energy, but they are an amazing, relaxing, and mid rich compliment.


----------



## NamelessPFG

The HD650 has good mids, you say? Now I just have to have a listen for myself, if only to broaden my headphone experience, but it's very unlikely that I'll get the opportunity.
   
*Stop tempting me!* My wallet can't take this! (Especially not after this CECHA PS3 project taking a turn for the unexpected...and expensive...long story short, expected bad PSU and fan, got good PSU and fan with bad motherboard in need of reballing, from what I can tell. That's another $100-150 down the drain.)


----------



## Suopermanni

I've heard the HD650 too on a Matrix M-Stage amp attached to a Creative Titanium HD at the time. I've haven't heard the DT990s but if it has bass like that, I certainly wouldn't mind it. Though I found the HD650 a bit...too warm and relaxing. I found that the warmth seems to smother you. I personally like something with more energy. Though, I wouldn't mind trying the can again on better gear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well yeah, that's how I feel. The HD650 is warm and relaxing. I want it mainly for when I'm watching TV shows or things that drown out the mids a bit (like some action movies). I certainly wouldn't keep the HD650 as my only headphone. Still, those mids are amazingly rich and inviting.

The DT990's bass is like the HD650's bass, but stronger and more energetic.

Nameless, somewhere down the line I'll probably send them out to you. Need to recuperate a LOT of cash first. I forgot I have to renew myu Security license, my car's tag, and some other shizz. AGH.


----------



## chicolom

I don't think I'd have a lot of use for an HD650.  I wouldn't use them for gaming.  Not sure when you'd use them for music except when you want something smooth and relaxing. 
   
  I mean it'd be nice to have some extra warmth sometimes, but the Q701 gives me some slight warmth and a natural sound + 'Dat Soundstage.
   
  It sounds like the HD650 would probably be a better complimentary can then the HD600 though, which might be too similar to the others to be worth owning....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, you wouldn't. It'd be competing with the Q701. While the tonal balance is very different, they do the same things well, with some tradeoffs. Both are rich in the mids, the HD650 has better bass, and the Q701 is airier, with a larger soundstage. I still dunno how they perform with DH though. Th movie didn't have many audio cues with the HD650, but did with the 990s, so that isn't good news for the HD650 and DH synergy. Still, movies are much worse than games at testing such things.

I must say, it makes a PERFECT movie can. The bass is full, the vocals are fantastic, and the pircing treble in movies are dulled. Watched Prometheus, and I liked watching it with the HD650 more than the 990s. Interesting.


----------



## Porter1

interested in your gaming impressions with the HD650's MLE.  i'm considering getting a pair, looking for an all around set of headphones for gaming and music. i game a ton (primarily FPS) but i prefer CMSS-3D off for just about every game.  i've always been willing to sacrifice positional cues for the sake of an 'immersive' gaming experience. do you ever test with CMSS-3D or DH disabled?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. I can't stand playing in stereo (other than on portable systems as they don't have surround to begin with).

I used the HD650 for BLOPS for a few hours today. If I had to give them scores right NOW based off BLOPS gameplay?

Fun: 8

Competitive: 7.5 (this could be an 8... I'm just scoring it lower to be on the safe side, though I did very well with these today, and didn't feel I missed anything)

Comfort: 8

They are indeed great all rounders. They're actually pretty detailed for a warm headphone. I'm still out on how they do competitively as I didn't get many games in, but so far, so good. I'll have to test out for soundstage though. Rear cues were fine for me. The bass is VERY good. They are richer in bass than the DT880s. About halfway between the 880s and 990s in terms of quantity. However, because the treble is nice and smooth, the bass and mids are highlighted. The treble is very natural sounding, even for gaming, and didn't sound lacking at all.


----------



## Porter1

nice, thanks for the quick thoughts.  how about playing a few rounds in a Frostbite engine game; BF3, BC2, MOHW?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those games are terrible in terms of positional audio.


----------



## Porter1

fair enough, but surely you don't play games solely for their positional audio. 
   
  edit: in other words i'm looking for general gaming impressions.  but i'm the one asking for the favor here, so if you don't play those games no biggie


----------



## NamelessPFG

I'm with MLE: the Frostbite engine's audio mixer is just not good from a positional standpoint, though that's frankly the least of my worries with the Battlefield series post-2142 in general.
   
  Also, I recall MLE saying that he didn't like smooth headphones when asked if he'd review the HTF600. It's a surprise for him to be enjoying the HD650's smoothness after reading that...not that I can really picture "smooth" treble given that the headphones I tend to favor are fast enough to not smooth over fine details in the sound, even if they don't exaggerate and shove said details into your ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont find these as smooth as people led me to believe. They still have plenty of edge and sharpness. Just playing BLOPS, I found them revealing and aggressive enough for competitive gaming, so I dunno. The only time I felt them being a bit too laid back was with rock, and similar hard, aggressive genres.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I'm the same way.  I'm not a fan of the competitive multiplayer, but the campaigns can get pretty darn epic at times.  And they're tons of fun in co-op.
> 
> Also, I have always and will always love driving the vehicles in Halo games.  Loved them since the very first time I got in warthog on Halo: CE and spent hours trying to ramp it off cliffs and run over my fellow marine buddies.    Who doesn't love filling up a warthog with marines then driving it over a cliff and sticking it with grenades?  :evil:




When I get sick of deathmatch or capture the territories modes in FPS games, which happens a lot (almost always at the back of my mind), I crave co-op. And Halo 4 has a godly co-op!

Co-op campaign worked pretty well, there were plenty of enemies, ammo, challenge, and all the cutscenes play (w/ option to skip). It's pretty much the same formula as in past Halo Campaign co-op methods, although there are a few QuickTime events that I realized I could sit back and let the lobby host do them. You still view them from first-person perspective, so it's pretty seamless.

I also played the first spartan ops mission before passing out... I'd say it's more like Mass Effect 3's multiplayer with how they give you mission objectives, but there is also cutscenes to give the missions context. I won't spoil anything, but suffice to say VERY fun!

One thing I will say about Campaign... AI driving still sucks, particularly banshee pilots, I'm kinda dismayed how many times I've seen an enemy giving me a pretty good challenge, but then I turn and there's another banshee stuck flying at a pylon. Some of the new promethian weapons are neat, but they mostly don't alter the way you play... Eg humans have the assault rifle (like an M4), Covenant have the Storm rifle (plasma version of AR, trades effectiveness against shields for less against unshielded + less accuracy), and the Promethian Suppressor... it's basically the smg from past halo games with large clip size and massive bloom. No big deal.

Audio
Audio is delicious, but DAMN some sounds are loud! Warthog effectively drowns out any other sounds. BUT the guns all sound mean, meaty, and hefty, very satisfying, and I am happy to say that directionality is quite good while on foot.

The Battle Rifle sounds and functions a lot like the BR from the Halo2 campaign trailer, IMO more satisfying than what that game eventually went with, plasma weapons burn through the air instead of "pew pew," and the DMR and Sniper sound particularly dangerous 

Someone mentioned worry about the music being tied to the sound effects... well, from level 5 or 6 that I'm on, so far music has been cued by your character reaching a certain area (or view), though it does calm down if you hang out in an area after the fighting finishes. Side comment away from music though, the game does a good job of making you want to keep going. The music itself seems to have a touch of Mass Effect 2 style... Maybe 3, but I haven't played that besides the fun beta/demo yet. The music is good, at times quite good, but it doesn't have that unique, believable sci-fi feeling that the strangely fitting Gregorian Chants had in previous games, or the jazz-y solemn tunes I loved in the rainy ODST game.

As I said above, positional sounds are good, superior to MW3 even in singleplayer. The more I get used to virtual surround, the more I can sense the limitations of 5.1 surround channels, but never the less Halo 4 makes good use of surround sound. The "bolts" from Covenant weapons can nearly be traced back through the flight path as they wiz by, soundstage distance is processed by the game (occlusion is a bit less pronounced than Halo 3, but... still good), and you can easily be the sneaky one as NPC enemies chatter around the corner. I'm going to hold off on any comparative statements about how good positional cues are in competitive multiplayer until I actually play it, and play it for a while.

One thing that bugs me, and I would try to gather Head-fi'ers to petition with me if I could, is that there are no in-game volume adjustments. I like turning down the sound effects a bit in single-player so I can hear music and vocals better, but even a basic "master game volume" slider is a huge boon for people who don't have a Mixamp to balance chat and game audio... In CoD, I turn up the volume on my amp (Recon3D, FiiO amp, or receiver) so that the chat is louder, and turn down the game volume to comfortable levels. Xbox Live chat volume is annoyingly weak, IMO.

Chicolom,
Plenty of fun driving sequences  road kill is fun, though occasionally I get an urge to recreate the "Warthog Jumping" videos by Randall Glass :evil:


----------



## Evshrug

porter1 said:


> fair enough, but surely you don't play games solely for their positional audio.
> 
> edit: in other words i'm looking for general gaming impressions.  but i'm the one asking for the favor here, so if you don't play those games no biggie




I play BF3, it's pretty fun and pretty much everyone will agree that the sound effects are good, but positional audio isn't really emphasized much in either the super-long distance fights or straight corridors... basically, surround doesn't IMO give you a constant advantage compared to stereo in BF3, whereas it almost feels like you're cheating in BO and Reach. Haven't played Halo 4 competitive yet, though impressions from the rest of the game are encouraging.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks for the impressions, Evs. I cant wait to get my hands on it.

I will more than likely switch from the HD650 to the 990 every hour, just to get a feel at how the HD650 compares. I heard the audio is really good in the game, so im hopeful.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> One thing that bugs me, and I would try to gather Head-fi'ers to petition with me if I could, is that there are no in-game volume adjustments.
> Chicolom,
> Plenty of fun driving sequences
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the impressions/review.
   
  That doesn't seem right that a AAA game would not have volume adjustments.  Maybe it is moved to different menu somewhere?  Seems like Reach put in an odd spot too.
   
   
  I definitely look forward to ramping and crashing the vehicles into each other. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  EDIT: Just saw Game Informer's review -  _" __Sound:A new benchmark in sound effect design, and an imaginative new score – but no manual control of the audio mix is a drag."_
  ??


----------



## Evshrug

Wow guys... Just beat the game for the first time. This... Is going to be one to collect. How many shooters get you to care about the characters? You guys... are in for a treat.

Campaign feels very fast paced, you constantly have to be moving, acquiring targets, be a little amped. And like I said, it's a good story, and you care about chief, Cortana, and the other characters you are introduced to. I find it amusing that my one JRPG addicted friend said in response to me inviting him to play it with me, that I only have taste for generic shooters and multiplayer... but more than that, I'm kinda sad he's going to miss out because he doesn't trust me.

Uses Granny animation... Lol gotta love credits.

Chicolom, it is very strange, but I've looked over each option. No joy.

Parting thoughts: I am grateful you guys liked my impressions. Hope I was able to give you a taste without giving spoilers.


----------



## ruuku

evshrug said:


> Chicolom, it is very strange, but I've looked over each option. No joy.




My biggest gripe with the game thus far, which is saying a lot. I would have expected separate levels of adjustment for SFX, Music, and maybe voice.... new sound engine maybe? Hopefully this is something they can patch. Ev- I'll gladly be the second sig on that petition. 

I think you might find the multi-player pretty enjoyable MLE-gone is the grenade, grenade, shoot, shoot, shoot, melee, melee gameplay of Halos past. 343 replaced it with a much more intense, fast paced COD-like experience (complete with "classes" and "killstreaks"). However they kept the rock-paper-scissors type weapon dominance of past Halo games... when equally skill players meet, many times the weapons will determine the outcome, and knowing your effective ranges becomes increasingly important. 

I'll also tip my hat to the thread regulars for not posting "knob" jokes... You sirs are gentlemen and scholars.


----------



## ruuku

Ignore (Double)...I need to sleep


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just now saw your m stage. Lol hueg knobz, but its nicer than the stock one. I love big knobs... :rolleyes:

I hate that the SA31 lacks one.

As for Halo, it's gonna be a rental only, and most rentals nowadays won't allow multiplayer. Even if I do wanna test it out, I can't.


----------



## Hailin

Hoping someone with halo4 could test something for me? Was wondering if the music and SFX were tied together as one like in Reach. So you need to start the game then use the home button to load some of your own music then pause your music and return to the game. If the SFX and voices still work with out the booming Halo soundtrack then I will be snapping a copy up ASAP. I love game sound tracks but only for so long. 
 My thanks to who ever tests this out for me.


----------



## xHunched

Should I get a Sennheiser PC360 for $210 or the Beyerdynamic DT990 32 ohm's for $370?
  Primar use: Gaming & bass music.
  How big of a difference is the bass comparison between the DT990's and the PC360's? Like if you were to rate both of their bass quality out of a scale of 1 to 10.
  Will the bass of the PC360 be sufficient or will it be disappointing?
  I would just get the DT990's if there wasn't such a huge price gap...
   
  Oh, this is probably a really stupid question, but i'm assuming the PC360's bass would still destroy the bass of a Turtle Beach XP500 right?
  That was my headset until it decided to break... cheap plastic.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





xhunched said:


> Should I get a Sennheiser PC360 for $210 or the Beyerdynamic DT990 32 ohm's for $370?
> Primar use: Gaming & bass music.
> How big of a difference is the bass comparison between the DT990's and the PC360's? Like if you were to rate both of their bass quality out of a scale of 1 to 10.
> Will the bass of the PC360 be sufficient or will it be disappointing?
> ...


 

 Wow that cost of the 32ohms is insane. At that price I would just bite the extra ohms and get the 250ohm pros. At almost 400 dollars (I don't know where you live) you are stepping into a lot of headphone choices. The PC360s will own the TB in clarity that goes without saying. Bass I have no clue.
  I do know just from enough reading any of the DT990 32-600 will completely wipe the floor with the PC360 in a straight up bass fight.


----------



## Stn.

Any input on the best native Xbox 360 headset under $100? I can't justify springing for a Mixamp + solid headset combo at this point.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wooot, Amazon just sent my X1 which I ordered 2 days ago, should be here in max 2 days. Looking forward to try them out with the Mixamp and X-FI HD/D2


----------



## ruuku

hailin said:


> Wow that cost of the 32ohms is insane. At that price I would just bite the extra ohms and get the 250ohm pros. At almost 400 dollars (I don't know where you live) you are stepping into a lot of headphone choices. The PC360s will own the TB in clarity that goes without saying. Bass I have no clue.
> I do know just from enough reading any of the DT990 32-600 will completely wipe the floor with the PC360 in a straight up bass fight.




Bass on the xp500s is extremely light... I would expect the PC360 to have more impact and depth, take this with a grain of salt though as I have not heard the PC360s. The Dt990s in any ohm flavor will dominate the xp500s bass wise. Agreed, $364 for a new pair of dt990s is pretty insane. Xhunched do you live in NA? Amazon has some "used-very good pairs" for ~210... If you don't like the condidition you can always return them (amazon warehouse).

Hailin- if no one can test this for you I'll test it for you but it won't be for a while as I'm at work. Hopefully someone can get to it sooner than I can.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xhunched said:


> Should I get a Sennheiser PC360 for $210 or the Beyerdynamic DT990 32 ohm's for $370?
> Primar use: Gaming & bass music.
> How big of a difference is the bass comparison between the DT990's and the PC360's? Like if you were to rate both of their bass quality out of a scale of 1 to 10.
> Will the bass of the PC360 be sufficient or will it be disappointing?
> ...


 
  I vote a DT990 (or DT880) Pro 250-Ohm and maybe (if needed) a Fiio E09 headphone amplifier.
  and any add-on Mic of your choice.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
Far as I know, EA games are the only ones that degrade the second hand experience by requiring multiplayer registration codes. You will be able to play multiplayer on your rental. As far as multiplayer itself, it only takes a few shots from AR weapons to burst shields, and of course other weapons can change that formula. Player health is only slightly better than a CoD player, but that health increase + weapon pickups + no death from above killstreaks = a more aggressive play style that rewards movement and timing more than corner camping. While seeing 32:6 k:d scores will become rare, you may find Halo 4 multiplayer to grow on you... my Milage is that I feel far less frustrated by opponents, and it feels more like a sport.

Hailin,
Using your own music does replace in-game soundtrack. However, it [appropriately] pauses music during the [in-game or eerie realisticly pre-rendered] cutscenes, and podcasts from "this American Life" clearly do not match the game tone, lol. As an aside, I would definitely not characterize the new soundtrack as "booming," it has a few fun moments but honestly I don't find the soundtrack memorable, it's definitely background fare. It's subtle though; while ES: Oblivion's soundtrack annoys me after a little while, mostly Halo 4's soundtrack does it's thing to set the mood, but mainly stays at a subconscious level of awareness.


----------



## Evshrug

stn. said:


> Any input on the best native Xbox 360 headset under $100? I can't justify springing for a Mixamp + solid headset combo at this point.




Stn.
In case you didn't get the impression from the guide on the first page of this thread, the general discovery made by the thread has been that NONE of the sub-$100 gaming headsets are very good, more expensive headsets improve on sound quality but are still poor values compared to an audiophile headphone, $2 clip-on mike, and a virtual surround processor. Cheap headsets are also known for poor build quality and break/wear out easily (I've heard too many stories about TB headsets breaking while putting them on the head), so good headphones pay off in that way too.

Want the cheapest setup that will blow away any sub-$100 headset? Koss KSC-75, a used Turtle Beach DSS on eBay, $2 DealExtreme clip-on/lapel mic that MLE has a link for in his guide or the twin "Neewer" brand available for faster shipping from Amazon that I have (3 pack, all work), and then a trip to MonoPrice.com to pick up any cables needed if the used DSS doesn't come with them.

I don't know anyone who has used the Astro A30, but Jude liked it better than the more expensive A40, so that may be a good way to get a Mixamp and a "starter" headphone. You can later plug any other headphone into the Mixamp... read the guide for worthwhile suggestions, and also look into Head-Fi reviews on AD-700, Creative Aurvana Live!, Samson, and Takstar.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Hailin- if no one can test this for you I'll test it for you but it won't be for a while as I'm at work. Hopefully someone can get to it sooner than I can.


 
  Thanks I think Evshrug got us an answer.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hailin,
> Using your own music does replace in-game soundtrack. However, it [appropriately] pauses music during the [in-game or eerie realisticly pre-rendered] cutscenes, and podcasts from "this American Life" clearly do not match the game tone, lol. As an aside, I would definitely not characterize the new soundtrack as "booming," it has a few fun moments but honestly I don't find the soundtrack memorable, it's definitely background fare. It's subtle though; while ES: Oblivion's soundtrack annoys me after a little while, mostly Halo 4's soundtrack does it's thing to set the mood, but mainly stays at a subconscious level of awareness.


 
  Thanks so much Ev. I am most definitely going to have to snap this game up. I will have the soundtrack on during first game play but next one co-op on Legendary won't want any soundtrack on. AC3 turned it off, Borderlands 2 turned it off. I play most games with my own soundtrack or it turned off. I am an enviromental atmosphere whore, I guess?
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Stn.
> In case you didn't get the impression from the guide on the first page of this thread, the general discovery made by the thread has been that NONE of the sub-$100 gaming headsets are very good, more expensive headsets improve on sound quality but are still poor values compared to an audiophile headphone, $2 clip-on mike, and a virtual surround processor.
> Want the cheapest setup that will blow away any sub-$100 headset? Koss KSC-75, a used Turtle Beach DSS on eBay, $2 DealExtreme clip-on/lapel mic that MLE has a link for in his guide or the twin "Neewer" brand available for faster shipping from Amazon that I have (3 pack, all work), and then a trip to MonoPrice.com to pick up any cables needed if the used DSS doesn't come with them.
> I don't know anyone who has used the Astro A30, but Jude liked it better than the more expensive A40, so that may be a good way to get a Mixamp and a "starter" headphone. You can later plug any other headphone into the Mixamp... read the guide for worthwhile suggestions, and also look into Head-Fi reviews on AD-700, Creative Aurvana Live!, Samson, and Takstar.


 
  +1 the KSC75 is fantastic I really need to buy a new set.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

About to go pick up Halo from Redbox. 

As for the DT990s, do NOT get them for that new price. Thats almost twice what they used to go for. Get them in like new condition for just over $200. Keep checki g Amazon's used listings. They change daily. Prices, listings come and go.


----------



## Evshrug

hailin said:


> Thanks I think Evshrug got us an answer.
> 
> Thanks so much Ev. I am most definitely going to have to snap this game up. I will have the soundtrack on during first game play but next one co-op on Legendary won't want any soundtrack on. AC3 turned it off, Borderlands 2 turned it off. I play most games with my own soundtrack or it turned off. I am an enviromental atmosphere whore, I guess?
> +1 the KSC75 is fantastic I really need to buy a new set.




Hailin,
Glad to help. I'm not sure how to turn music off altogether, never tried, but I guess you could be playing music and turn the volume all the way down from the guide menu. I personally love music in games, I think it adds drive and liveliness when they added occasional music in Black Ops multiplayer. I get a better score when I stimulate my brain with some energetic music, than I get from sound whoring. Just a personal thing.

MLE,
Interested to hear your impressions. Halo 4 may or may not click for you, but it will definitely feel fresh vs CoD and BF, and more fleshed out than ME3 (at least in ME3's multiplayer, I have yet to play campaign). Like I said above, I had a few minor gripes, but the game has won me over and I'm a fan 

I forget off the top of my head if you say sub-$100 console headsets aren't worth it, but feel free to copy/paste parts of my response to Stn. if you agree. That way, you can help people with that question without having to repeat yourself... unless you already did say "here's the recommended sub-$100 setup" or something like that and I just missed it. Ha!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Played about 2 hours. Its definitely the prettiest Halo. However, its pretty standard Halo action. Like it, but dont love it. Keep in mind im not a Halo fan. If you are, Halo 4 will be just as good as the rest, if not better.

Soundwise, it does sound like they improved the quality everywhere.

As far as positional cues, it feels pretty standard. Not really gonna be a game I'd demo for virtual surround, fwih so far. If I had to rate HD650 performance from Halo 4, I'd probably lower competitive to a 7. The DT990 is definitely superior in soundstage width and depth.

As for multiplayer, it seems that its on disc 2. Redbox only has the first disc, so looks like im screwed there.

edit: Update: Meh, I guess I've outgrown Halo. I'm returning it today. Not even gonna finish it. Not that it's a bad game, but I guess I'm just not pleased with Halo overall.


----------



## Naingolann

MLE you should try Dishonored if you haven't already. It's kinda like Bioshock, but with stealth.
   
  I'm not even that much into first person games (headache issues), but loved this one to death. Music and atmosphere are top notch, also really liked the city and all the lore around it and its inhabitants.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

naingolann said:


> MLE you should try Dishonored if you haven't already. It's kinda like Bioshock, but with stealth.
> 
> I'm not even that much into first person games (headache issues), but loved this one to death. Music and atmosphere are top notch, also really liked the city and all the lore around it and its inhabitants.




Don't like Bioshock, and the vids I have seen of Dishonored gave me the same feeling.


----------



## washu9

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Don't like Bioshock, and the vids I have seen of Dishonored gave me the same feeling.


 
  Same goes for me here.
   
  While I dig the steampunk setting, having your character go to crushing depth...
  Bioshock is just too claustrophobic for my taste.  After a short while, every corridor looks the same.
  Plus all those psycho running about...
   
  Not sure if I like Bioshock Infinite either... not that fond of heights.
   
  I'd more probably prefer the psycho of Farcry3.  They seem to have more 'character' that you can hate.
  Instead of Bioshock's 'I'd rather not even go anywhere near em'.
  Bioshock setting just seems like a mental asylum with no guards, deep in the bottom of the sea...
  Not a place I'd want to be in for even a second.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not about the setting. It's about the type of gameplay. I'm really picky with shooters, and Bioshock did nothing for me. Watched plenty of Dishonoured vids, and I was like "Yeah, no thanks".

Probably wouldn't like FC3 wither, as I didn't like the others.

I'm stupid anal about shooters, really. I don't like the vast majority.


----------



## chroniX

DT990 / 600 ohms came in! Wow the bass...just incredible. Only issue is it's a little too bright for me on some songs, to the point where it's a bit grating. Hoping my ears can adjust because this bass is just amazing. Using it with my E9 amp on low gain (high gain sounds good but makes it even brighter).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mentioned that brightness many times, so you shouldn't be surprised.


----------



## chroniX

Yeah I knew it was bright going in. I was just messing around with my sound card control panel and tried disabling X-Fi crystalizer. It's much better now 

Mad did you use high gain or low gain when you had your E9? I heard high gain may introduce some distortion but I'm not sure.

Also, anyone know a good song to test the soundstage?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I use whichever gets me between 9-12, and optimally between 10-11. That's the E9's sweet spot. I'm pretty sure I used high gain, but I do believe low gain does sound a little more stable for the E9.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Don't like Bioshock, and the vids I have seen of Dishonored gave me the same feeling.


 
   
  Quote: 





washu9 said:


> Same goes for me here.
> 
> While I dig the steampunk setting, having your character go to crushing depth...
> Bioshock is just too claustrophobic for my taste.  After a short while, every corridor looks the same.
> ...


 

 Wait wait, don't misunderstand me. The setting is indeed kinda like Bioshock, but it's absolutely not as claustrophobic. Actually, it's the opposite. You can go around the city and clear missions in any way you want (stealth/commando) And no psycho running about I swear (well, except for the plague victims)! Also, tons of sub-missions which add a lot to the main story. Really, it's an amazing game.
   
  FC3 looks rather promosing as well. I don't know how much I'm missing having not played the previous ones though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, not the setting, or whether it's claustrophobic or not. Just not into the type of shooter that it is, period. Actually, I prefer linearity and I guess you'd say 'claustrophobic' shooters, than wide open ones anyways. That's why I don't like Battlefield, or Fra Cry. Too open.


----------



## Porter1

Dishonored is only fun if you take the stealth approach in every mission.  i can see how that sort of gameplay doesn't appeal to everyone.  i like it because it's a departure from my typical FPS games, but i only like it in short burts (i.e. a quick break between BF3, BLOPS, CS:GO, etc.).


----------



## Evshrug

Naingolann,
FPS games gave my father headache issues (I think it's related to his motion sickness, but in reverse), but they are also starting to make me feel not-so-good when I play them on LCD TVs. I think when the whole screen turns, and the LCD image flickers and ghosts (minutely) while trying to refresh what every pixel is displaying. Refresh problems. "Framerate Smoothing" features on TVs also make my eyes go wonky. Thankfully, there is much fun to be had outside of first-person games, but wholistically I have the least problems on a Plasma TV with all the special "features" turned off, a bit of ambient light, and no light sources reflected in the screen to cause glare. Maybe the last 3 points can help you if you haven't accounted for them already, and a screen with a higher "true" refresh rate may be good for you?

(I think I read somewhere that HDMI is limited to 60fps input, DisplayPort has the bandwidth to do better, but all I know is I was surprised how much a step back my mom's LCD HDTV was from the Plasma from the same brand I own... it seems even worse than my older computer monitor)



mad lust envy said:


> Played about 2 hours. Its definitely the prettiest Halo. However, its pretty standard Halo action. Like it, but dont love it. Keep in mind im not a Halo fan. If you are, Halo 4 will be just as good as the rest, if not better.
> Soundwise, it does sound like they improved the quality everywhere.
> As far as positional cues, it feels pretty standard. Not really gonna be a game I'd demo for virtual surround, fwih so far. If I had to rate HD650 performance from Halo 4, I'd probably lower competitive to a 7. The DT990 is definitely superior in soundstage width and depth.
> As for multiplayer, it seems that its on disc 2. Redbox only has the first disc, so looks like im screwed there.
> edit: Update: Meh, I guess I've outgrown Halo. I'm returning it today. Not even gonna finish it. Not that it's a bad game, but I guess I'm just not pleased with Halo overall.




Oh yeah. It's on the second disc... Lol. Too bad you didn't finish it, the last few levels had my favorite moments of the game. After I bought it, I got kinda stuck on the part where you have to clear obstacles for the Mammoth vehicle, and I decided I was more tired than interested in beating that part that night. If I had the game as a rental charged daily, and I wasn't the kind of person that has to beat every game to completion (The first Gears of War and Shawn White Snowboarding were the only games I've returned without beating, both because I found the controls poorly implemented and gameplay annoying and unfun), I might've been frustrated enough not to continue, especially when my save file on the memory stick got corrupted between the Xbox @ my girlfriend's house & my Xbox and I had to start over.

But I have beat every Halo game, and I personally am invested in seeing where the story thread leads. Will it continue to echo Bungie's old school Marathon shooter? Has 343i read Larry Niven's "Ringworld" series that was Bungie's original inspiration for Halo?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



In the end, I think Bungie is in love with telling a story – and I believe they intended to tell Halo in a traditional 3 acts. The way they portrayed the Covenant leadership in Halo 2 made me think they were going to have a much more 3D fleshed-out role, and bring all the different story threads together to fit into a finale in Halo 3. We were going to find out what happened to the Forerunners, what the Forerunner plan was for Humanity & why they call us Reclaimers, the Covenant Prophet of Truth would try to _prevent_ humanity from ascending and taking away the power he and his race had gained through creating the Covenant (only use Forerunner tech for power), and Cortana would achieve stable rampancy and at the last minute use Master Chief to beat everybody and become like the Forerunners. Then Microsoft said no, you can't end our star franchise for the 360, and Bungie slowly un-acquired itself. Bungie may make another game, but I think Forge mode is also an indication of what they might like to do next.


343i's Halo 4 plays like a fan-made game; I think they get Bungie's references, and put in a lot of things they would love to play, but it is also clear they took a lot of elements from Mass Effect (and eastern design influence?) and even Star Wars (there, I said it!) for singleplayer, and Call of Duty innovations (perks, functional unlockables, killstreak rewards) added to multiplayer. Forge mode remains a halo speciality (yay user-made content!), and co-op is a step ahead of the rest of the FPS genre. However, I don't feel they are quite as creative as the Bungie team, and obviously they exist at the whim of Microsoft. It's hard to shake the impression of DLC developers with some talented visual artists. I can't tell how the multiplayer maps _play_ while I walk around in an empty game, they seem decent but designed like DLC maps. The Forge-mode created Erosion map variant they made for slayer or capture the hill seems particularly slapped together.
I'm also less impressed with Neil Davidge's soundtrack the more I play :/


----------



## ronswanson

I'm generally prefer open shooters more.  BF3 and Borderlands is definitly more my thing than COD.  Although I consider Borderlands more of an RPG than true fps shooter like BF and COD games.
   
  I may have to pick up BLOPS2, though.  Especially with the new scorestreaks, which sound much better than killstreaks to me.  I haven't played a COD game since MW2.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't really think of Bioshock as an open-world game... Sure, you explore levels instead of being lead along a path like in the campaigns of CoD and BF3, but it still is a story told in a linear narrative with particular objectives that must be met before you can reach new areas, and there isn't much point in revisiting areas you've already passed. When I think "Open World," I think of sandbox games like Rockstar and Bethesda make.

I think linear games can present a paced, deliberate experience, like a movie. They're strong that way, to tell a cohesive story. Other, more flexible games have strong replay value because you don't have to make the same choices on how you do things to meet your objectives, like Bioshock, Dishonored, and Bioware's RPGs. In really "Open World" games like Skyrim or Escape Velocity, there is a narrative, but your character's identity is basically blank, your choices and what you feel like doing are what defines the experience. I think open world games are the most immersive, but sometimes I can't stand them when I am feeling uncreative and just as bored "working" in a game as I am bored in real life. LoL! I like to think I play a mix of all games, though I'd rather turn to a shooter or RTS than a sports simulation to play competitively.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I think linear games can present a paced, deliberate experience, like a movie. They're strong that way, to tell a cohesive story.




THAT is my fave type of shooter.

CoD
Gears of War
Uncharted

Those are examples of games like that.

I'd also like to try Spec Ops: The Line. I heard it has a fantastic story, and I liked the demo.


----------



## Hailin

I play two shooters. Borderlands and Halo series. I dislike anything that directly relates to present war themes. I also don't play competitively because I am much to slow. I tired Bioshock would have probably liked it but I scare to easily, and I couldn't handle to claustrophobic nature of it. I generally dislike a first person view in general due to console HORRID POV. Come on console companies majority of us have HD tvs or monitors push it out like pc games. Borderlands 1 gave me violent headaches due to the POV but I just fell in love with it so I struggled through. Borderlands 2 doesn't have this issue. 
   
  I hate having to play on my monitor but wrecking my plasma isn't a pleasant thought to me. I have Panny ST30 with horrible IR issues. Just nasty. I am still after 6 days trying to work the borderlands 2 health bars out of it.
   
  I looked at some LED/LCD's yesterday and the amount of ghosting on a top end Samsung was really disappointing. Figured after all these years they would have figured this crap out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> I play two shooters. Borderlands and Halo series. I dislike anything that directly relates to present war themes. I also don't play competitively because I am much to slow. I tired Bioshock would have probably liked it but I scare to easily, and I couldn't handle to claustrophobic nature of it. I generally dislike a first person view in general due to console HORRID POV. Come on console companies majority of us have HD tvs or monitors push it out like pc games. Borderlands 1 gave me violent headaches due to the POV but I just fell in love with it so I struggled through. Borderlands 2 doesn't have this issue.
> 
> I hate having to play on my monitor but wrecking my plasma isn't a pleasant thought to me. I have Panny ST30 with horrible IR issues. Just nasty. I am still after 6 days trying to work the borderlands 2 health bars out of it.
> 
> I looked at some LED/LCD's yesterday and the amount of ghosting on a top end Samsung was really disappointing. Figured after all these years they would have figured this crap out.




I have a Panny 65" ST30 myself, and I game on it constantly. IR goes away pretty quickly, though the hardest to get rid of was Castlevania HD's life bars. I played that game for over 400 hours, so it's plasma abuse on my part. No other game left persistent IR.

I'd never give up a Plasma for an LED/LCD. OLED...maybe.


----------



## chicolom

I like both linear and non-linear/open games.
   
  COD at times can be too scripted and too funneled.  I don't have a lot of urge to replay their campaigns because I fell like I've already seen everything the first time.  I like to replay FEAR games (which are also fairly linear), but those have a little more open battlespaces and room for improvisation in the firefights/gameplay. 
   
  On the other hand, games like Fallout and Skyrim are way to open for me.  If the game gives me a list of 14 different quests I should go out and do, I lose interest.
   
  Bioshock is still linear, it just has a little more room for exploration in between each level.  They are definitely levels though.  The _atmosphere _is awesome though, which is why I like it.  FYI if you like bioshocks atmosphere, you might like Metro 2033.  The mechanics and gameplay aren't as good as bioshock, but the atmosphere is similar. 
   
   
  One of my favorite types of shooters/games are the semi-open world games like Crysis.  They are still linear, but they give you more room for creativity for how you want to play.  This gives them a lot of replay value.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Naingolann,
> FPS games gave my father headache issues (I think it's related to his motion sickness, but in reverse), but they are also starting to make me feel not-so-good when I play them on LCD TVs. I think when the whole screen turns, and the LCD image flickers and ghosts (minutely) while trying to refresh what every pixel is displaying. Refresh problems. "Framerate Smoothing" features on TVs also make my eyes go wonky. Thankfully, there is much fun to be had outside of first-person games, but wholistically I have the least problems on a Plasma TV with all the special "features" turned off, a bit of ambient light, and no light sources reflected in the screen to cause glare. Maybe the last 3 points can help you if you haven't accounted for them already, and a screen with a higher "true" refresh rate may be good for you?
> (I think I read somewhere that HDMI is limited to 60fps input, DisplayPort has the bandwidth to do better, but all I know is I was surprised how much a step back my mom's LCD HDTV was from the Plasma from the same brand I own... it seems even worse than my older computer monitor)


 
  Thanks, that's some valuable infos I'll be sure to keep in mind. On my 40' LCD tv I keep all kind of features OFF as well. I do have a bit of glare on my screen because of a damn mirror which sits right behind the TV and reflects the light that comes through the window. That could be the problem...who knows.
   
  I also have a 23' LCD monitor which I use with my PC, and suffer a lot less sickness from it and it usually doesn't last more than a few seconds. I'm getting used to it though, so no biggie.
  Actually, I'm on the market for a new monitor. I've been looking at the new Dell S series (27', glossy, *no PWM flicker*!).
   
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I like both linear and non-linear/open games.
> 
> COD at times can be too scripted and too funneled.  I don't have a lot of urge to replay their campaigns because I fell like I've already seen everything the first time.  I like to replay FEAR games (which are also fairly linear), but those have a little more open battlespaces and room for improvisation in the firefights/gameplay.
> 
> ...


 
  Completely concur with everything you said.
   
  Have Metro 2033 installed on the PC for so long, but never had the chance to play it...I'm just holding off 'till I beat ACIII. Looks like I'm gonna enjoy it! Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rented Metro 2033, didn't like it either. Seriously, I have issues with being really picky about my shooters. XD

Hell, please guys don't go off what I say about these games. I'm sure they're great for most people. I just lose interest or get too bored by many games that the majority of people love.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, I have issues...


 
   
   
  QFT.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hopefully soon, I will have my mind made up on what to actually settle with. :rolleyes:

HD650 or HE-400... 

The 990s went back... ouch.

Trust me... I know. h34r:

I may have to eat my words and go back to the HE-400+E17 and use the bass boost...

I really, truly miss the HE-400. The HD650 has shown me what mids do, and the HE-400 is a perfect balance of lows, mids, and highs.

The HD650 isn't as good for gaming as the DT990, but I find myself not caring. They do good enough, and that warm, full sound is just... unbelievable for music, movies, etc. It reminds me of the HE-400, without the HE-400's amazing holographic imaging and soundstage. So it's gonna go either way, but I'm only keeping one headphone + E17 for EQ-ed gaming with the HE-400, or none at all with the HD650. The trade off being the HE400 not having as amazing mids as the HD650, but the HD650 not having that planar magic.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 990s went back... ouch.


 
   
  Why?!
   
  You've bought them like a dozen times already, just keep them.  You'll be buying them again in a week.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because, the HD650's mids and warmth pulled me in. Things that the 990s lack. The bass on the HD650 is pretty solid too, and I felt they didn't lack for gaming.

The real competition is the HD650 vs HE400. The HE400 is better for gaming and many things, but the mids on the HD650 are just one of a kind. They do have their similarities, but the HE400 is more energetic... and that imaging is surreal. It's gonna be tough, but I'm leaning on the HE-400.

The 990s are amazing for me... but I feel I have outgrown their brightness.


----------



## darinmc

Just wanted to drop a comment in this thread since it was relatively instrumental in a recent purchase.  I've been bouncing around ideas for upgrading my headphones but continuously failed to pull the trigger because I didn't want to spend the money.
   
  I currently have a pair of MDR-V700DJ headphones I bought a long time ago (10 years or so) that I used primarily for pc gaming.  I knew they were a muddy, bass heavy pair of headphones, but I never knew how much i was missing in the mid and treble ranges as well!
   
  Based on this and subsequent reviews of the Koss KSC75 headphones I went ahead and ordered a pair from amazon.  WOW.  I'm a modder at heart and loved the minor mods you could do to the headphones when I read about them, so I figured I could get them to mess around with modding and practice my soldering skills even if the sound quality wasn't that great.  They are official the best pair of headphones I own....
   
  Thanks for taking the time to write this, supremely valuable.  I'm sure I've just dipped my toes into very deep waters....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LOVE the KSC75... if it wasn't for the KSC35 being in my home, I'd get the KSC75 in a HEARTBEAT.

I use my KSC35 more than all my other headphones combined (seriously).

I use them at work basically all night, and when I'm laying down at home watching my anime, movies, when winding down, getting ready to sleep. Considering the KSC75 is even more comfy... I'm almost tempted on just getting them again for the comfort.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> I also have a 23' LCD monitor which I use with my PC, and suffer a lot less sickness from it and it usually doesn't last more than a few seconds. I'm getting used to it though, so no biggie.
> Actually, I'm on the market for a new monitor. I've been looking at the new Dell S series (27', glossy, *no PWM flicker*!).


 
   
  May I suggest looking at the monitors in this thread, which start at about $370 on ebay as of this post. They should be on par with the Dell ultrasharp series for half the price.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1225919/yamakasi-catleap-monitor-club
   
*Edit: *Just found this one on Slickdeals for $298. Man I would love to get one of these but I have no money and purchased a cheapo 27" Hanz-G, for the same price, before I found out about these awesome Korean monitors. With max 2560x1440 resolution you should be set for future High Def needs for quite some time.


----------



## darinmc

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> LOVE the KSC75... if it wasn't for the KSC35 being in my home, I'd get the KSC75 in a HEARTBEAT.
> I use my KSC35 more than all my other headphones combined (seriously).
> I use them at work basically all night, and when I'm laying down at home watching my anime, movies, when winding down, getting ready to sleep. Considering the KSC75 is even more comfy... I'm almost tempted on just getting them again for the comfort.


 
   
  So is it worth it to spend the $45 of the 35's, or should I just put that money into a pair of decent over-the-ear models?  I just picked up a CMOY 18v [size=medium]JRC4556 Dual Op Amp too, btw.[/size]


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Again, not the setting, or whether it's claustrophobic or not. Just not into the type of shooter that it is, period. Actually, I prefer linearity and I guess you'd say 'claustrophobic' shooters, than wide open ones anyways. That's why I don't like Battlefield, or Far Cry. Too open.


 
   
  Heh, and to think that I hated the CoD2 and CoD4 demos precisely because they were way too linear and scripted...
   
  For singleplayer FPSs, I don't mind a linear progression, so long as that line has some width to it and lets me approach objectives the way I best see fit, something like Crysis or Deus Ex. I like that openness, or at least the feeling of multiple approaches even in more confined areas.
   
  P.S.: *CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD, YE NOT GUILTY*


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> P.S.: *CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD, YE NOT GUILTY*


 
   
  We have came to team!


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





fa11ou7 said:


> May I suggest looking at the monitors in this thread, which start at about $370 on ebay as of this post. They should be on par with the Dell ultrasharp series for half the price.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1225919/yamakasi-catleap-monitor-club
> 
> *Edit: *Just found this one on Slickdeals for $298. Man I would love to get one of these but I have no money and purchased a cheapo 27" Hanz-G, for the same price, before I found out about these awesome Korean monitors. With max 2560x1440 resolution you should be set for future High Def needs for quite some time.


 

 Yup, I've read a lot about korean monitors. I'm just trying to stay away from those becacause: 1) I've built my new PC just recently and I highly doubt my gtx660 would be able to run any game with medium/high settings @ that resolution. 2) Shipping cost too high if you have to send 'em back. 3) No warranty, faulty, dying monitors after just a few months of use...Uhm, no thank you. 4) Looking for multi-input, because I want to use my PS3 with it.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 990s went back... ouch.


 
   
  W-what have you done? T_T
   
   
  Quote: 





darinmc said:


> So is it worth it to spend the $45 of the 35's, or should I just put that money into a pair of decent over-the-ear models?  I just picked up a CMOY 18v [size=medium]JRC4556 Dual Op Amp too, btw.[/size]


 
   
  IMHO it's not worth it. I'd just go with the 75's, which are just as good and more comfy.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> THAT is my fave type of shooter.
> CoD
> Gears of War
> Uncharted
> ...




Exactly, it's like participating in a movie, letting a "director" guide your experience. In good games, this can be a powerful way to tell a story. Sometimes, with not-so-good games, I think I would be a better director. In more "open" games, you get to choose your own experience. But anyway, you all get this.

I'm actually curious about what happens in Gears of War's story. It's just that the contrived cover system makes movement sticky and action slow, and the game has overall the loosest "controls" for a shooter I have ever played. I played it for like six days, little bit at a time, but the gameplay was just so unfun the experience was ruined for me. I think the last thing that happened was I had to avoid shadow areas, else some kind of bats would eat Fenix? It's been a long time; GoW was my first game for the 360.

Darinmc,
The difference between the KSC 75 and 35 is mainly down to the ear clip holds the driver closer to your ear, which trades comfort for a bit more bass presence (and less soundstage?). They both use the same driver in an open enclosure; if you press the KSC 75 closer to your ears you will hear what the KSC 35 sounds like, any other difference is just down to manufacturing variance. Choose based on your own preference, personally I would get the KSC 75 if I didn't already enjoy my Sennheiser PX100 for the same purpose.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Hopefully soon, I will have my mind made up on what to actually settle with. :rolleyes:
> HD650 or HE-400...
> The 990s went back... ouch.
> Trust me... I know. h34r:
> ...




After several edits, I'm just not sure what to say about all that. I'm sorry you're not happy


----------



## chroniX

http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH1440-Professional-Headphones-Black/dp/B0073P4ESO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

What do you think about those MLE? One of the reviews compared the DT 990, AKG 701, and HD650 and liked these the best, claiming he finally found a can that does it all for him.

I could have bought them for $265 on ebay but couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger, especially since i just got the DT 990s

Might be worth looking into if you want to try something new

Edit: Oops, the person who said that was reviewing the 1840, not the 1440


----------



## TMRaven

I think with all the money you've progressively lost through constant buys and resales, you could have tried out an LCD-2 with velours by now!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually Evs, the KSC35 and 75 use different drivers. The KSC75 uses titanium coated drivers. The 35 doesnt.

A common misconception.

No matter how you slice it, the 35 is warmer, and fuller sounding. Even using the 75's clips, the 35 is still the better can, though not by a lot.


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm, fascinating, both the KSC 75 and 35 have 60 Ohm impedance. Goes to show you what high sensitivity can do for making a headphone easy to drive, though did you say, Mad, that they scaled up with your amp? And looking at the site, I see Koss was careful to advertise the 2mm titanium coating on the KSC 75, but not on the 35.

Also just saw that you played Metro 2033 and didn't like it. Did you get far enough to go through the ghost tunnel, halfway through the game? The scene might be too slow paced or ficticious for you, but I thought it was unique and a bit spooky, my fav part. Near there was the first time you see an anomaly, which is a scene with AWESOME rumbly bass! If you didn't yet return the game, you owe it to yourself to play it on easy and just rush through to that part! It's too bad you didn't like it... though I'm curious, what about it didn't you like?

OH! Just remembered what I originally edited my reply for! How do you like your ODAC, do you really feel it made a difference? 

Ps did you really send your DT990s back, or were you just thinking about it?


----------



## Evshrug

Naingolann,
Somehow missed your reply. I also find my computer LCD monitor to have superior quality reproducing motion to the LCD TV, despite being a modest $150 Dell from... like... 8 years ago. From what I read before buying my Panasonic plasma, the way to go with gaming screens is advertising panels, often the same screens as commercial versions but without the extra "image enhancing processing" features. I looked and didn't see any priced as nicely as what I could get while working at Sears (Portrait Studio still had employee discount), overall I'm really happy with my setup (which is boxed up in the basement T_T).

I also loved Metro 2033.

Who said console POV is terrible, and should be back like PC games? I don't understand what you mean, a wider angle of view, or a more narrow angle so that distances are compressed and don't appear to whirl around as much? If you're not sure what I'm talking about (I'm speaking relative to camera lens "zoom") I explained the phenomenon pretty well in this article: http://www.macworld.com/article/1153707/wideangle_pointandshoot.html


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No matter how you slice it, the 35 is warmer, and fuller sounding. Even using the 75's clips, the 35 is still the better can, though not by a lot.


 
   
  I need to check this again, because last time I listened to them both I could barely hear a difference.  Like I would fail a blind test with it. 
   
  Either way, the KSC35 aren't worth the price difference over the KSC75. Not when the KSC75 sell for $14 and the KSC35 are ~$40 $44.  For that price you can buy _both _a KSC75 _and _some sportapros (KSC35 driver) and swap them back and forth.
   
Actually, I just checked and I can't even find the KSC35 for sale anywhere (except a $70 listing on ebay)??  Wonder what's up with that...
  Only available directly from Koss....  :\


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Played for a couple of hours. Not my cup of tea. 

I like the odac, just as I liked the nfb5's dac, fiio d3 and fiio e17. The differences were so minute that is not worth getting a headache over. The odac is the smoothest, but in blind testing I'd fail to hear a difference 99% of the time. Amps make a bigger difference, and even then it's minute fwih.

The 990s are boxed up. Like a band aid. .. hurts, but I don't want more than one full sized open can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I need to check this again, because last time I listened to them both I could barely hear a difference.  Like I would fail a blind test with it.
> 
> Either way, the KSC35 aren't worth the price difference over the KSC75. Not when the KSC75 sell for $14 and the KSC35 are ~$40.  For that price you can buy _both_ a KSC75 _and_ some sportapros (KSC35 driver) and swap them back and forth.
> 
> Actually, I just checked and I can't even find the KSC35 for sale anywhere (except a $70 listing on ebay)??  Wonder what's up with that...




Only the Koss website sells the KSC35. My long time friend ordered a pair last week after hearing mine.

I definitely hear the difference between the two, but it is slight. Almost like the same headphone, but the bass is fuller on the 35, and the treble is grainier on the 75. The 75 is brighter too, and the mids are more forward on the 35.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Only the Koss website sells the KSC35. My long time friend ordered a pair last week after hearing mine.
> I definitely hear the difference between the two, but it is slight. Almost like the same headphone, but the bass is fuller on the 35, and the treble is grainier on the 75. The 75 is brighter too, and the mids are more forward on the 35.




Funny, the majority opinion FWIR was that the PortaPros sound better than the sportapro model. I don't remember differences being cited (you didn't say what you didn't like about Metro either, but it's not super important to me beyond curiosity), but I read it so many times that it surprises me... though they also said the KSC 75 had the same driver as the PortaPro. Maybe, not long ago, they did all share a driver, then Koss started this titanium thing? Koss' website states that the PortaPro drivers are Mylar coated... Lol, they love their coatings. Not going to argue if they find these coating boost control or dampen resonance (same thing?).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

darinmc said:


> So is it worth it to spend the $45 of the 35's, or should I just put that money into a pair of decent over-the-ear models?  I just picked up a CMOY 18v [size=medium]JRC4556 Dual Op Amp too, btw.[/size]




Finally learned how to use multi quote on the phone. No its not worth it. The KSC35 is better, but its only slight, with a tonal shift. I'd go for the 75 for the comfort and price. I stuck with the 35 because it is better, and I preferred the fuller, warmer sound. Full sized headphones are better assuming you get something like the Creative Aurvana Live and up. Otherwise, the KSC75 and 35 are amazing and versatile.




namelesspfg said:


> P.S.: *CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD, YE NOT GUILTY*




This pleases me. I swear, they could make an awesome Hollywood live action on Big O. Its so close to Batman, big robot aside.



axelcloris said:


> We have came to team!



 To terms!*



chronix said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SRH1440-Professional-Headphones-Black/dp/B0073P4ESO/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> What do you think about those MLE? One of the reviews compared the DT 990, AKG 701, and HD650 and liked these the best, claiming he finally found a can that does it all for him.
> I could have bought them for $265 on ebay but couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger, especially since i just got the DT 990s
> Might be worth looking into if you want to try something new
> Edit: Oops, the person who said that was reviewing the 1840, not the 1440




I would love to try both the 1440 and 1840. I would have bought the 1840s actually, but then I read than they lack bass, and are bright. Dont need that.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Who said console POV is terrible, and should be back like PC games? I don't understand what you mean, a wider angle of view, or a more narrow angle so that distances are compressed and don't appear to whirl around as much? If you're not sure what I'm talking about (I'm speaking relative to camera lens "zoom") I explained the phenomenon pretty well in this article: http://www.macworld.com/article/1153707/wideangle_pointandshoot.html


 
   
  The narrow FOV in today's PC ports just bugs me. It basically makes it look as if when you turn your head, your view seems kind of zoomed in, as if your eyes are actually a foot in front of your face. Does that make sense?
   
  They say that it's a little trick to help the consoles cope with increased graphical demands, as there's less to be rendered on the screen at once and the effect isn't as irritatingly obvious with a large TV viewed at a distance. It's not something confined to this generation, either; I've noticed it in the PC ports of the first two Turok games from the N64 days. It's only older games that were developed PC-first that seem to have a proper FOV to begin with; go fire up ZDoom (most other Doom source ports should be fine) and then compare it to a more recent game to see what I mean.
   
  I actually want to run up and slap the guys at Gearbox Software because of this in the Borderlands titles. They also made the even weirder decision to increase the FOV to normal levels only when you're sprinting, instead of just reducing it to zoomed-in levels while sprinting like every other game does it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it something like what happens with RAGE? That game makes me sick. Everything looks zoomed in.


----------



## chicolom

People complained about Bioshock's FOV because they found out it was just cropping from a 4:3 frame to produce it's 16:9 widescreen.  You actually saw more if you played in 4:3 (fullscreen) then in widescreen (16:9). 
   
  They patched it though and added an optional wider FOV.


----------



## tzelicc

Hi guys,
   
  I would like to say a BIG thank you to all of you who have shared your vast experiences with headphones. Through research and contents from threads such as this, i have learnt a lot about headphones especially HE-400.
   
  I have just purchased a new HE-400 few days ago, and was very excited to test it out. What i was looking forward to test and listen to is the performance of HE-400 with CMSS-3D. This is due to the reason that my old headphone (Creative Fatal1ty Gaming Headset) sounded soo much better with CMSS-3D for music (iTunes) and games, so I was hoping with HE-400 it would be even better.
   
To my dismay, when I turned-on CMSS-3D with HE-400, it sounded really bad  I'm not sure if if's due to a faulty unit or my configuration, but it was missing all the virtual surround which I was expecting from both music and games. When i switched off CMSS-3D, the HE-400 headphone sounded fantastic with really superb spatial sound, bass, etc.
   
  Do you guys have any comment on my scenario, and see if there is something that i'm doing or approaching this whole thing wrong?
   
  Thanks guys..


----------



## chroniX

CMSS-3D in headphone mode can reduce the soundstage in higher-end headphones. The workaround to resolve this issue is to set it to 2.1 speakers instead of headphones, and enable CMSS-3D in the X-Fi control panel. Then set it to 5.1 in windows audio settings. 

Finally, browse to C:\ProgramData\Creative\Spi\{0000 some random number string 0000}\THX and edit THX.ini. Under Spatializer, change 2=30 and 4=30 to 2=90 and 4=90. Make this THX.ini file read-only to prevent it from changing the values back. (If you're missing the THX.ini file, just open the THX console and it will generate it for you.)

Hope that helps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So much work...

I rented the new Bond game. Should be fun for a few hours.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So much work...
> I rented the new Bond game. Should be fun for a few hours.


 
  Schedule an appointment with your cardiologist and optometrist. The game is that bad. Makes the Goldeneye reboot look like a fluke.


----------



## tzelicc

Thanks so much chroniX, that worked! However, i noticed that whenever i change windows audio settings to 5.1 - it forced X-Fi control panel to switch to 5.1 as well.
   
  As a result, it sounded like the CMSS-3D issue is fixed but the sound is missing bass altogether. (as if im trying to listen to 5.1 sound using stereo)
   
  Is there a way to stop/disable windows audio settings from syncing with XFi control panel?
   
  Thanks again in advance for all your help thus far!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lubczyk said:


> Schedule an appointment with your cardiologist and optometrist. The game is that bad. Makes the Goldeneye reboot look like a fluke.




Going off what you've read or played? Because I'm enjoying it. It's got Call of Duty written all over it, down to the perks (even in the Campaign). Sire. it's a watered down CoD, but it's still entertaining.

Enjoying it more than Halo 4. It's a RENTAL at least.


----------



## widdyjudas

Will the HE-400 be good with the Little dot MK2 (usd 95)? Or I just keep my Fiio E17?


----------



## TMRaven

It sounded good off the MK2 to me.  HE-400 kinda sounds good off a lot of stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> It sounded good off the MK2 to me.  HE-400 kinda sounds good off a lot of stuff.




^This. It managed to sound awesome even off my PC's headphone jack... which is hard to do.


----------



## widdyjudas

Just tested straight from my pc out and it definitely sounds better than IE8 and M50. Wow...
  So just keep my E17 then, no need the mk2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure, but I didn't like them as much off the E17 alone than my NFB5. I'm really pessimistic about amp improvements, but I do believe that the HE400 deserves more than the E17 alone. Not sure how that LD amp will sound though. I believe anything that smoothens the treble a little will be an improvement, as the HE400 can be screechy at times.


----------



## TMRaven

MKII sounded a bit loose to me in comparison to the O2.  I'm not sure if it was damping factor or sound signature, or perhaps both.  If you get it I don't think the improvement would good enough.


----------



## widdyjudas

Well, I 'll just keep the e17 then. Money is a bit tight now. I just went to the local cans store today to buy a 990 pro for my friend and saw the mk2. Too bad i didnt test it with the he 400 since the store is crowded. but I got a chance to test the d7000.
D7000 seems emphasized vocal a little bit and the bass is more impact compared with he400. The sound is very good but its 995usd price tag is just too much for me now. comfort wise I think its better than 990 pro, perfect weight and clamping. In just wish denon put velour on it. The leather is hot and sweaty.
Impression for he400 after 2 weeks. Mine is rev2, since the rev3 is cancelled by hifiman. Sound wise the he 400 is neutral, nothing is emphazised. Atleast to my ear, i might be wrong. But I like it. I find it less tiring to hear than ie8 and m50.
1 thing i missed from ie8 is the soundstage. I think the He400 is smaller, but not much from ie8. I might be wrong but again, its my ear.
envy, I noticed you got 650 on your sig, care to give a review for gaming with it?
Thanks for this useful thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

widdyjudas said:


> Well, I 'll just keep the e17 then. Money is a bit tight now. I just went to the local cans store today to buy a 990 pro for my friend and saw the mk2. Too bad i didnt test it with the he 400 since the store is crowded. but I got a chance to test the d7000.
> D7000 seems emphasized vocal a little bit and the bass is more impact compared with he400. The sound is very good but its 995usd price tag is just too much for me now. comfort wise I think its better than 990 pro, perfect weight and clamping. In just wish denon put velour on it. The leather is hot and sweaty.
> Impression for he400 after 2 weeks. Mine is rev2, since the rev3 is cancelled by hifiman. Sound wise the he 400 is neutral, nothing is emphazised. Atleast to my ear, i might be wrong. But I like it. I find it less tiring to hear than ie8 and m50.
> 1 thing i missed from ie8 is the soundstage. I think the He400 is smaller, but not much from ie8. I might be wrong but again, its my ear.
> ...




You know it's coming, silly. 

And yes, the D7000 is amazing... and you mirrored pretty much what I felt... I wish it didn't have the damn pleather pads.

The HE400... I wouldn't call it neutral. The bass and treble is emphasized, but I WOULD call them natural sounding, though the treble is more emphasized compared to the bass and mids. Still, the sound as a whole is pretty natural and lively for a dark headphone.

Raw spoilers for my HD650 review:

Fun: 8
Competitive: 7
Comfort: 8

That's what I'm feeling.


----------



## widdyjudas

Well, the d7000 leather is much better than m50 imo. Less heat but still sweaty after just 10 mins. The feel on my skin is better. I dont know how to say it in english, but its much better than the AT.
Compared to 990, m50 and ie8, he 400 is neutral on my ear. Nothing is overpronounced and the sound is less tiring. Gaming wise I think i like the 990 pro than the he400. The soundstage is just better. he 400 is better for imaging and detail. Music wise, he400 no competition.
Can't wait for the 650 full review. Although its too late since I already bought the he400, but I didn't regret it a bit. 
hd650 do clamp a bit when i tested it. feels like m50, but with velour pad. Its light weight and fairly comfortable, but the clamping force feels like its a closed hp... like you said, sennheiser do like their clamping...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





tzelicc said:


> Thanks so much chroniX, that worked! However, i noticed that whenever i change windows audio settings to 5.1 - it forced X-Fi control panel to switch to 5.1 as well.
> 
> As a result, it sounded like the CMSS-3D issue is fixed but the sound is missing bass altogether. (as if im trying to listen to 5.1 sound using stereo)
> 
> ...


 
   
  The only way to keep the settings from syncing under Vista/Win7/Win8 is to set the X-Fi control panel to Headphones. Unfortunately, Creative didn't bother to include a checkbox for those OSes like they do with XP.
   
  Personally, I've never had issues with CMSS-3D Headphone _reducing_ the apparent soundstage. If anything, it tends to increase it...strange.
   
  If there isn't enough bass for your tastes, that's what the bass boost option is for (along with EQ for more fine-grained adjustments).
   
  And an aside for MLE...I've been wondering if an Ace Attorney-style Big O game would work out, at least for the investigative portions before switching to the usual giant robot fighting.


----------



## lubczyk

Do people get good results double amping with the Astro mixamp? I have the Fiio E09K/E17 combo along with the Mixamp. What would I do to amp, let's say, the Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohm?


----------



## TMRaven

I tried double amping the astro mixamp with O2.  With astro mixamp at around 50% volume and O2 maxed out, I sure as hell didn't get the volume boost I was hoping for.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Do people get good results double amping with the Astro mixamp? I have the Fiio E09K/E17 combo along with the Mix-amp. What would I do to amp, let's say, the Beyerdynamic DT990 600 Ohm?


 
  I'm assuming your using the Astro mix-amp. with a gaming console.
  Just plug the Fiio E9 into the Mix-Amps headphone jack and plug the DT990 600-Ohm into the Fiio E9
  Can't really see a need for the Fiio E17 in this setup.


----------



## Sanctuary

Double post


----------



## PanamaHat

Have you looked into the Tritton Warhead? The package comes alot more streamlined than other options here since it's wireless


----------



## Sanctuary

Quote: 





> This is my first and LAST 5.1 headset. This is the worst frigging headset I have ever heard. I couldn't believe it was worth $189... I was peeved. The sound quality was absolutely mediocre, more on par with $30 headphones (KSC75 excluded). Now to the meat of the reason anyone would get this garbage: The 5.1 speakers. If it's better than virtual surround, it sure could have fooled me, because I wasn't buying into that gimmick. There was a noticeable gap between the drivers when a sound switched from one driver to the next. Sure, you can TELL where sounds are coming from if you pay attention to which driver is currently putting off noise, but I'll take the complete 360 degree soundfield Dolby Headphone has to offer over the AX Pros. Anyone who thinks this is better in positioning than a pair of AD700s, DT770 Pro 80s, and K70x with Dolby Headphone is someone I'd call a bold faced liar. The AX720 is better, and cheaper, plus the AX720's amp can be used with other headphones. There is absolutely no reason to own the Ax Pros, unless you want to see just how inferior it is.


 
   


 Reading that always gets me laughing.  Not because I disagree, but because of how spot on it is.  Those were also my "first" and last 5.1 headset.  While I technically owned the 720s for a day prior (I was stupid, and had no idea you could use a different pair of cans than what came with the amp and was less than impressed with the DH effect), the Ax Pro were what I used for about a year and a half, thinking having the seperate drivers would be better than what the 720's offered.  Joke was on me.  I absolutely hated using those, but at the time they were better than nothing.  Mess of cables to have to deal with, as well as always having to constantly mess around with the adjusting the drivers depending on what you were using the headphones for.  Phenomenal "boomy" bass, but horrible at true seperation and everything else. 

 I ended up giving them to a friend of mine who is never allowed to listen to surround sound in his own house (due to his wife), and he really likes them.  Good for him, since they are better than absolutely nothing, but he would never make it as an audiophile.  He thinks they do seperation very well, and actually likes them more than the other setups I have around at my house (I think he's just adjusted to the crappy sound of the Pros or something, because I think he's totally insane).


----------



## chroniX

tzelicc said:


> Thanks so much chroniX, that worked! However, i noticed that whenever i change windows audio settings to 5.1 - it forced X-Fi control panel to switch to 5.1 as well.
> 
> As a result, it sounded like the CMSS-3D issue is fixed but the sound is missing bass altogether. (as if im trying to listen to 5.1 sound using stereo)
> 
> ...




No problem. I ran into that issue as well and forgot exactly how I fixed it. I am using a custom driver with my Titanium HD though, maybe that's why. You can find more info on it here: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/pax-drivers/



namelesspfg said:


> The only way to keep the settings from syncing under Vista/Win7/Win8 is to set the X-Fi control panel to Headphones. Unfortunately, Creative didn't bother to include a checkbox for those OSes like they do with XP.
> 
> Personally, I've never had issues with CMSS-3D Headphone _reducing_ the apparent soundstage. If anything, it tends to increase it...strange.




It always made it better for me with cheaper headphones. But I found with headphones that have a huge soundstage, what it does is bring the sound closer which might actually be better for gaming.

Play a song with the X-Fi control panel open, and try disabling/enabling CMSS-3D during playback. If it's like mine, you should notice without CMSS (on headphone mode), the sound extends further back. With it on, it sacrifices some of the soundstage to make the sound more intimate to me, and give clearer mids.


----------



## Evshrug

panamahat said:


> Have you looked into the Tritton Warhead? The package comes alot more streamlined than other options here since it's wireless




I saw two reviews that the warhead and detonator headsets were disappointing, and decided they weren't worth looking into more. Also, figure in the fact that out of your ~$70, a good portion of that budget on a wireless headset goes to a battery, wireless receiver, cheap internal DAC and amp, and that there is more transmission loss and signal compression for any wireless connection... and consider how much further your money could go.

When I game with my Xbox and either the Q701 or AD700, there is one wire (the headphone wire) going from me to the Recon3D processor next to my screen (a computer monitor for now), and then I have a lapel mic plugged into my wireless Xbox controller. Easy peasy. It's even Better when I have my Recon3D outputting into my Receiver, because I can use the remote to adjust volume control instead of getting up.


----------



## PanamaHat

> I saw two reviews that the warhead and detonator headsets were disappointing, and decided they weren't worth looking into more. Also, figure in the fact that out of your ~$70, a good portion of that budget on a wireless headset goes to a battery, wireless receiver, cheap internal DAC and amp, and that there is more transmission loss and signal compression for any wireless connection... and consider how much further your money could go.


 
  Makes sense. I can still see the appeal of it though since the package seems more user friendly (wireless, simple setup, integrated mic) Putting it into perspective though overall sq wins over features.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> I tried double amping the astro mixamp with O2.  With astro mixamp at around 50% volume and O2 maxed out, I sure as hell didn't get the volume boost I was hoping for.




You need to MAX out the Mixamp or nearly max it. You're not gonna get almost anything with the Mixamp at half power.

And no, you get no extra audible distortion from what I personally hear.

Just ordered the HE-400 again. This is gonna have to do. Now to get the E17...once Miccastore gets it in stock on Amazon again...


----------



## Evshrug

panamahat said:


> Makes sense. I can still see the appeal of it though since the package seems more user friendly (wireless, simple setup, integrated mic) Putting it into perspective though overall sq wins over features.




Well, such products exist because there is a demand. I imagine it sounds _pretty_ decent, and for some "truly wireless" headphones they're fine to trade a little sound quality. But for $279!!! You can hear some sweet sound for 280 bones! And I'm pretty certain, hear good headphones at that level, one wire between the TV and you will seem like you've paid such a bargain for such magic... I mean really, what is the benefit of an integrated mic (where you're screwed if it happens not to work well)?


----------



## Porter1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You need to MAX out the Mixamp or nearly max it. You're not gonna get almost anything with the Mixamp at half power.
> And no, you get no extra audible distortion from what I personally hear.
> Just ordered the HE-400 again. This is gonna have to do. Now to get the E17...once Miccastore gets it in stock on Amazon again...


 

 getting rid of the HD650's or keeping them as a second pair?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd love to keep them, but I prefer to have just one headphone for all purposes, and could use that money for something else. I'm going to get an E17 and use that as a permanent bass boost for the HE400 whenever I want bass, and the odac when I dont need the bass boost, like when watching tv shows and anime.

I rather not bass boost, but the HE400 is worth it as the best all arounder I've heard aside from the D7000. There's the HE4 which i also love, but I prefer the easier amp requirements of the HE400.


----------



## Sanctuary

MLE, you really need to find someone that owns the Pioneer SE-DHP800 and give them a spin.  They are tied to their own box that's essentially a Mixamp (with DTS on top of DD), but you can also use a seperate, corded pair with it too.  I'd like to hear your impression of them and how they compare to other headphones you've already reviewed.  Personally, I find them to give off the most naturally "theatre" like sound without any particular frequency dominating.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd love to keep them, but I prefer to have just one headphone for all purposes, and could use that money for something else. I'm going to get an E17 and use that as a permanent bass boost for the HE400 whenever I want bass, and the odac when I dont need the bass boost, like when watching tv shows and anime.
> I rather not bass boost, but the HE400 is worth it as the best all arounder I've heard aside from the D7000. There's the HE4 which i also love, but I prefer the easier amp requirements of the HE400.


 
  I know you had the Denon D7000 at least twice. Why did you get rid of it? You seemed to love it.
   
  Do you just enjoy trying new headphones, or are you never satisfied?


----------



## ruuku

Pleather/Leather (I'm not too sure which) pads... If they made velours for it MLE would buy it in a heartbeat (I'm assuming).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ruuku said:


> Pleather/Leather (I'm not too sure which) pads... If they made velours for it MLE would buy it in a heartbeat (I'm assuming).




This. Notice how the D7000 was the last headphone I bought that didnt have velours.

Well, the HE400 too, but they do have Hifiman velours that make them sound better than stock.

Sadly, no one bothered with velours on the D7000.


----------



## paulkemp

This thread is epic! Love it!


----------



## ronswanson

Has anyone done any gaming with the ATH-AD300? I'm curious how those stack up against others in that price range.


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You need to MAX out the Mixamp or nearly max it. You're not gonna get almost anything with the Mixamp at half power.
> And no, you get no extra audible distortion from what I personally hear.
> Just ordered the HE-400 again. This is gonna have to do. Now to get the E17...once Miccastore gets it in stock on Amazon again...


 
   
   
  I'm not sure I'd want to do that.  Mixamp gets a bothersome amount of noise after around 60%, and by the time it hits 80-90% it's unlistenable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's the trade off. Live with some noise, or no volume. You're just losing resolution by having such a low volume anyway. You'd get the same amount of hiss with the Mixamp alone on sensitive headphones. Don't blame double amping, blame the Mixamp.


----------



## chicolom

I set my mixamp 5.8 to about to the same level as line out signal (2.0 Vrms).  This is equates to the mixamp turned all the way to game balance and the master set to slightly above 1 o'clock or ~65-70% volume.  If I use chat then I turn the master completely up and set balance a bit towards the voice end.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I set my mixamp 5.8 to about to the same level as line out signal (2.0 Vrms).  This is equates to the mixamp turned all the way to game balance and the master set to slightly above 1 o'clock or ~65-70% volume.  If I use chat then I turn the master completely up and set balance a bit towards the voice end.


 
  how do you set it to 2.0 vrms?? did you use a dvm?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





i95north said:


> how do you set it to 2.0 vrms?? did you use a dvm?


 
   
  2.0 Vrms *
   
_* Approximately _


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Sennheiser HD 650 review is up! Any questions? Lemme know what you guys think!



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Porter1

nice review MLE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. I try to add more and more compared to when I first started. Trying to cover all aspects as best as I can. Paired with my general laziness, these things aren't perfect, but I try.


----------



## ronswanson

The HD598 is $189 right now on Amazon:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042A8CW2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0042A8CW2&tag=pb3oq9_3lqf-20&linkCode=as2
   
  Same price on Newegg as well:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826106522&Tpk=hd598


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got them for $163 

Of course, most headphones have all jumped in price.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I got them for $163
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  wow. 163 is amazing.  new or referb?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

New. They were on special back then. I think it was an after Christmas sale, IIRC.


----------



## ronswanson

I'm hoping the HD558's will have a similar sale soon.  otherwise I might just jump at the $104 refurb price on amazon from Dahmart.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ronswanson said:


> I'm hoping the HD558's will have a similar sale soon.  otherwise I might just jump at the $104 refurb price on amazon from Dahmart.




Judging by my brief demo of the HD558, I like them more than the HD598 and PC360. More enjoyable as a whole.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chronix said:


> No problem. I ran into that issue as well and forgot exactly how I fixed it. I am using a custom driver with my Titanium HD though, maybe that's why. You can find more info on it here: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/pax-drivers/
> It always made it better for me with cheaper headphones. But I found with headphones that have a huge soundstage, what it does is bring the sound closer which might actually be better for gaming.
> Play a song with the X-Fi control panel open, and try disabling/enabling CMSS-3D during playback. If it's like mine, you should notice without CMSS (on headphone mode), the sound extends further back. With it on, it sacrifices some of the soundstage to make the sound more intimate to me, and give clearer mids.


 
   
  The different drivers may have something to do with it. I just use stock Creative drivers, which are surprisingly good in the Titanium HD's case to the point where I don't really find myself missing Daniel_K X-Fi Support Pack support for this card.
   
  I generally avoid using CMSS-3D Headphone with music, but when I turn it on, it doesn't shrink the soundstage to my ears so much as it moves the sound out in front, where the front left/right speakers would be in a speaker system, as opposed to the usual stereo headphone presentation of being directly out from your ears. This naturally reduces the usual stereo separation that happens with headphones.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> JRPGs generally don't exactly demand positioning. There's probably a few action RPGs where that might be pretty in. For music in general, Ar Tonelico's got an awesome soundtrack so you might want to try that.
> I remember one of the earlier PS2 Atelier games had sound setting in the options. Don't remember if the setting went up to 4.0 or 5.1 speakers. I think it was Atelier Viorate, but don't hold me to it. Definitely pre-Iris though.
> Speaking of JRPGs, I gotta go finish Tales of Symphonia on PS2. Never got around to finishing that.
> *EDIT:* There looks like a nice poem or something in your avatar, Mshenay. I can't read it due to the crap resolution. You got a larger picture of that?


 
  I have the Poem in my Sig niture :3 it reads "Boobs over flowers, tommorow I might really try" xD best poem ever <3
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I tried emulating Symphonia (Dolphin) but the sound was jacked up. Any tips?


 
  Yea get over it, it's just how the game runs. I turn off the games BGM and run the OST from ToS off Foo Bar which is equally interesting
   
  Also I'm playing the Ar Tonellcio and they are nice, and in addition I can run Wii games at max speeds


----------



## widdyjudas

Nice HD 650 review. I absolutely agree with your description, after I tested it before. Question: Can the E17 drive 650? Properly with good SQ? How is the music SQ compared to he400?


----------



## lubczyk

@Mad Lust Envy
   
  Which revision o the HE-400 do you own now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

widdyjudas said:


> Nice HD 650 review. I absolutely agree with your description, after I tested it before. Question: Can the E17 drive 650? Properly with good SQ? How is the music SQ compared to he400?




The E17 will drive it loud, though without headroom for dynamics. I wouldnt settle for that alone. The SQ is amazing, just laid back compared to the HE400. They are similar in warmth, but the HE400 has and energetic sound the hd650 lacks. The hd650 as I mentioned, has better mids/vocals. 




lubczyk said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> Which revision o the HE-400 do you own now?




Not yet, but its the newest one, which is identical to the Rev. 2.


----------



## mafiamike

Hello gamer's, which audio preset's does everyone prefer on black ops2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I use the Treyarch mix, which is basically flat. Everything else is basic EQing of specific frequencies. Depending on the headphone, those presets would mostly hurt SQ, unless you have a pair of headphones that could use a bump in bass or treble...

Just dont use the Headphones setting, as its just converting it down to stereo, if its anything like the prior games.


----------



## NamelessPFG

If only some game developer would use an audio middleware where the "Headphones" option isn't some crappy one-dimensional stereo mix, but proper binaural sound...we wouldn't even need Mixamps or fancy sound cards at all!
   
  But alas, current software audio middlewares aren't even close to what late-1990s PC games were doing with Aureal Vortex2-based cards and A3D. It's such a damn shame, since I'm sure we could do all that in software on today's hardware, even the wavetracing.
   
  Meanwhile, that HD650 still tempts me as a must-review headphone, if not must-own (solely due to the pricing being well into used Stax territory). I'm sure my Onkyo receiver can feed it adequately through the front-panel headphone output.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In the end, the HD650 is a love it or hate it headphone. Its a huge departure from the usual, so its hard to compare. All I can say is that I wouldnt like it as my sole headphone. As a distinct opposite of what im used to, they are amazing though.


----------



## raband

mad lust envy said:


> In the end, the HD650 is a love it or hate it headphone. Its a huge departure from the usual, so its hard to compare. All I can say is that I wouldnt like it as my sole headphone. As a distinct opposite of what im used to, they are amazing though.




How would they go beside HD598's? Do you think they'd be complimentary or overlap too much/replace the 598's? 

I've got the 598's, but have a chance for a good deal on 650's.

I'm thinking they might be different enough to keep both. 

598's for multiplayer FPS's, 650's for solo play RPG's etc. 

598's for female vocals, 650's for male vocals sort of thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think they blow the HD598 away for everything except competitive gaming. Much more enjoyable, IMHO.


----------



## raband

mad lust envy said:


> I think they blow the HD598 away for everything except competitive gaming. Much more enjoyable, IMHO.




Cheers - 598's can be left at the mixamp then


----------



## RapidPulse

I have both the 598 and 650.  I do feel like they are different enough to justify keeping both (using the 598 mostly for gaming though)


----------



## lubczyk

Well, I've been using the Samson sr850 since my Audio-Technica CKS77 crapped out and I've got to say....they're pretty amazing. For my first set of open cans I find that the air circulation combined with the great detail and soundstage great for gaming. Bass response is pretty epic too. It's not bloated but goes pretty deep. As a gaming only option, I don't know if there's anything better under $50.
   
  I mean, I've tried the Audio-Technica M50, WS55, M-Audio Q40, Phillips Citiscape Uptown and Downtown and this beats them all in gaming/movie performance. Nice and Light with no clamp and a self-adjusting headband. Very comfortable. Music souunds pretty good too.
   
  Makes me want to look into the Q701/HE-400/HE-500/HD650 but I don't want to have to mess with expensive amps. I'll just settle for the Fiio E09k.
   
  I wish Astro would stock their Mixamp already. They said by the mid of November.


----------



## Evshrug

lubczyk said:


> Well, I've been using the Samson sr850 since my Audio-Technica CKS77 crapped out and I've got to say....they're pretty amazing. For my first set of open cans I find that the air circulation combined with the great detail and soundstage great for gaming. Bass response is pretty epic too. It's not bloated but goes pretty deep. As a gaming only option, I don't know if there's anything better under $50.
> 
> I mean, I've tried the Audio-Technica M50, WS55, M-Audio Q40, Phillips Citiscape Uptown and Downtown and this beats them all in gaming/movie performance. Nice and Light with no clamp and a self-adjusting headband. Very comfortable. Music souunds pretty good too.
> 
> ...




Interesting perspective on the Samson. Wish I had money to slake my curiosity about the SamsonSR850 and Takstar that people are starting to enjoy, but I already "got serious" with the Q701. And just to point out from your "have to" mess with expensive amps comment: even without an expensive amp, the Q701 performs superior to any other headphone I've heard. It's just that, experiencing this, it changed my mind about eventually exploring amping. Feeding music into my home receiver definitely scales up the experience further. I figure my Yamaha's solid-state amping is a decent representation of what a powerful SS amp can do for the Q701, so that's why I'm trying a tube amp next.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Interesting perspective on the Samson. Wish I had money to slake my curiosity about the SamsonSR850 and Takstar that people are starting to enjoy, but I already "got serious" with the Q701. And just to point out from your "have to" mess with expensive amps comment: even without an expensive amp, the Q701 performs superior to any other headphone I've heard. It's just that, experiencing this, it changed my mind about eventually exploring amping. Feeding music into my home receiver definitely scales up the experience further. I figure my Yamaha's solid-state amping is a decent representation of what a powerful SS amp can do for the Q701, so that's why I'm trying a tube amp next.


 
  Good choice on the Q701. I want the E09K for I want a somewhat portable setup. In addition, I don't think there are that many differences between amps of the same type (solid-state versus solid-state/tube versus tube) . I'm of the mind that tube amps introduce distortion. I also feel that amping requirements are exaggerated here on Head-fi. Really a $1000 amp to power a $400 pair of headphones? Really?
   
  I mean the HD600, K701 and K702 are used in studios around the world and I doubt they all use some exotic amps that are produced in small quantities with rare components. Not to mention the MDR-V6 and Audio-Technica ATH-M50 tend to do just fine for most.
   
  Shoot, Deadmau5 and Skrillex just use speakers and the not the boutique kind either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You are correct, the difference between my SA-31 ($500) and E09K ($109) is pretty minute. THAT BEING SAID, the Q701 loves itself power, and the difference is noticeable on it. They sounded quite a bit better on the NFB5 vs the E09K. The Q701 deserves some good amping. Not overkill amping, but good. Something like the MStage would be all I'd say it'd need.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You are correct, the difference between my SA-31 ($500) and E09K ($109) is pretty minute. THAT BEING SAID, the Q701 loves itself power, and the difference is noticeable on it. They sounded quite a bit better on the NFB5 vs the E09K. The Q701 deserves some good amping. Not overkill amping, but good. Something like the MStage would be all I'd say it'd need.


 
  Yeah, your choices are reasonable. I'm talking about multi-thousand dollar amps/dacs that use some obscure components to drive common headphones. NFB seems to have common components assembled.
   
  I'm talking about the Red Wine Audio Isabella Amp that starts at $4000.
   
  I still don't know wheather the DAC/AMP should cost more than the headphones, however.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> ...
> 
> I wish Astro would stock their Mixamp already. They said by the mid of November.


 
   
  well, today is just now mid-nov.  but I feel your pain.  I've been waiting for them to come back in stock too.  I'm realistically expecting them closer to the last week in Nov or first week in Dec.  In an email response, Astro originally told me Dec 1.  That was before they started saying Mid-Nov in twitter though.


----------



## ronswanson

So does anyone know how the soundstage and balance of the Samson sr850 compare to the HD558 or HD598s?  would those sennheisers still kill the SR850, or is the difference more miniscule?
   
  EDIT:  just from reading different reviews of the SR850, it sounds like they are fairly well balanced.  I'm going to assume that it has more bass than the HD558, but still not too overpowering for gaming?


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> So does anyone know how the soundstage and balance of the Samson sr850 compare to the HD558 or HD598s?  would those sennheisers still kill the SR850, or is the difference more miniscule?
> 
> EDIT:  just from reading different reviews of the SR850, it sounds like they are fairly well balanced.  I'm going to assume that it has more bass than the HD558, but still not too overpowering for gaming?


 
  Bass is pretty good on the SR850 regardless weather it's amped or straight out of an audio jack. It's definitely not bass anemic. It doesn't feel like it's boosted bass. No experience with the Sennheiser. The SR850 responds well to EQ (up or down) regarding the treble and bass.


----------



## Evshrug

lubczyk said:


> Good choice on the Q701. I want the E09K for I want a somewhat portable setup. In addition, I don't think there are that many differences between amps of the same type (solid-state versus solid-state/tube versus tube) . I'm of the mind that tube amps introduce distortion. I also feel that amping requirements are exaggerated here on Head-fi. Really a $1000 amp to power a $400 pair of headphones? Really?
> 
> I mean the HD600, K701 and K702 are used in studios around the world and I doubt they all use some exotic amps that are produced in small quantities with rare components. Not to mention the MDR-V6 and Audio-Technica ATH-M50 tend to do just fine for most.
> 
> Shoot, Deadmau5 and Skrillex just use speakers and the not the boutique kind either.




I've been encountering music producers more lately than I ever anticipated, and it seems that the general perspective is that they use some sort of monitors while recording, but before the final mix is sent out they play the mix at home, in their car, headphones, WHATEVER is their typical listening environment to hear if it sounds "right" compared to the way they are used to hearing other music. So, after the science, they typically submit their work to a bit of an objective process. Music is art, after all.

Regarding tubes, I'm of the mind that I've already "got" the SS sound, and I want to try tubes so I have an option to try something a bit colored from neutral. While I first want neutral to hear how recordings are "intended," I'm as curious as MLE or any other Head-Fi'er to hear other sound signatures. After all, music (and games) are Art like I said above. In photography, Fujifilm's Velvia film is stronger in saturation (especially in green tones) than neutral, but it has outlasted the standard-bearer Kodak Kodachrome because the lush, verdant landscapes captured by that emulsion _seem_ more natural to perfect light conditions and healthy vegetation, and people more widely are attracted to that. With a tube amp, each tube can have a different signature than the next, they really are unique compared to SS, and a new signature is just a cheap tube-swap away.


----------



## Evshrug

Put in another way:



> Virtual surround works best when presented in a headphone/amp system with lots of detail and soundstage, and of course as gamers we want an exciting, "immersive," liquid sound signature. Besides the challenge of overcoming background hiss/noise, everything I've read about tube amps is their ability to expand soundstage, "immerse" listeners with a musical presentation, and their liquid quality would make a great pairing for traditionally "dry" headphones such as the AKG Q701, which head-fi'er "Mad Lust Envy" currently presents as the all-around best headphone for competitive playing AND great to use for "fun" as well. The ability to cheaply tailor the sound signature by changing the tube in an amp is a big perk as well... gamers LOVE customization.




The above was written before Mad bought the HE-400 (which I think is his current all-rounder fav). I personally don't think the Q701 is dry, but then I have tended towards making analytical and I guess "dry" choices so far.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I've been encountering music producers more lately than I ever anticipated, and it seems that the general perspective is that they use some sort of monitors while recording, but before the final mix is sent out they play the mix at home, in their car, headphones, WHATEVER is their typical listening environment to hear if it sounds "right" compared to the way they are used to hearing other music. So, after the science, they typically submit their work to a bit of an objective process. Music is art, after all.
> Regarding tubes, I'm of the mind that I've already "got" the SS sound, and I want to try tubes so I have an option to try something a bit colored from neutral. While I first want neutral to hear how recordings are "intended," I'm as curious as MLE or any other Head-Fi'er to hear other sound signatures. After all, music (and games) are Art like I said above. In photography, Fujifilm's Velvia film is stronger in saturation (especially in green tones) than neutral, but it has outlasted the standard-bearer Kodak Kodachrome because the lush, verdant landscapes captured by that emulsion _seem_ more natural to perfect light conditions and healthy vegetation, and people more widely are attracted to that. With a tube amp, each tube can have a different signature than the next, they really are unique compared to SS, and a new signature is just a cheap tube-swap away.


 
  If you want a different sound signature, wouldn't the best choice be then to try different headphones? Headphones make the most difference in sound, not amps, dacs or cables. Who could afford to make amps or dacs that only have "'synergy" with specific headphones. I don't see how a boutique headphone amp manufacturer like Audio-dg or or Red Wine Audio could afford to have access to special components that sound so much better than most others out there. There just isn't that much money out there in the audiophile headphone market for amp and dac manufacturers to make specialized components just to fit some subset of headphones. The point of an amp to to simply amplify the signal and the dac is self-explanatory.
   
  Look at NwAvguy, he made a DAC and AMP that beat those thousands of dollars using off-the-shelf components. It's all about implementation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the K701 is even more dry than the Q701, lol. Next to the HE400 and HD650, the Q701 is a bit dry.

But yeah, the Q701 isn't exactly dry in the way the Pro 900 and Pro 2900 are. 

Don't get me wrong, a dry tone is actually better for details, IMHO. It provides a cleaner sound.

The Q701 is still my fave $250 headphone that isn't overly colored. I'd probably get the K702 Anniversary just because of the love I have for the Q701, and what I've been reading about the K702 Anniverasry having more warmth and bass, better comfort, and sound that rivals the HE400.

BTW, tube amps aren't going to transform your headphone. It will be just subtle differences, like 2%. A headphone change is definitely what's needed if you want a different sound.

What amps/dacs do is basically offset some aspects of the sound you wish to change. Like slightly making a headphone warmer, rolling off the treble, adding just a hint of soundstage, etc. It will still be the same headphone.

Never heard a headphone that sounds drastically different unamped vs amped, or with any source. Headphones do improve quite a bit (Q701 and HE4 are two I've noticed the most change).

It's all slight variations of the same sound, TBH. The SA-31 was overkill, and I feel I could have spent those $600+ dollars total for something more logical. But it's mine, so no reason to change it now, unless someone swaps me for a Compass 2 or something, which is more versatile, DAC/AMP all in one, and a volume knob.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 will drive it loud, though without headroom for dynamics. I wouldnt settle for that alone. The SQ is amazing, just laid back compared to the HE400. They are similar in warmth, but the HE400 has and energetic sound the hd650 lacks. The hd650 as I mentioned, has better mids/vocals.
> Not yet, but its the newest one, which is identical to the Rev. 2.


 

 Good explanation, thanks so much for this thread. At first, I was scared choosing he400 to hd650. After your review, now I do not regret my choice for the Hifiman.
  It seems that you like Hifiman brand, do you consider testing the HE500?
  I want to give my GF Sony XB series. She just casually listen to music, and not concerned on music SQ. How do you think the new XB 400? Or I just give her the old XB 500?


----------



## NinjaSushi2

MLE! Let me say I love you reviews first off. Some jack ass on Overclock.net called Simca was talking crap* on you but I straightened his ass out right, right quick... Never fear!!! Your fan club is here!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Well, the K701 is even more dry than the Q701, lol. Next to the HE400 and HD650, the Q701 is a bit dry.
> But yeah, the Q701 isn't exactly dry in the way the Pro 900 and Pro 2900 are.
> Don't get me wrong, a dry tone is actually better for details, IMHO. It provides a cleaner sound.
> The Q701 is still my fave $250 headphone that isn't overly colored. I'd probably get the K702 Anniversary just because of the love I have for the Q701, and what I've been reading about the K702 Anniverasry having more warmth and bass, better comfort, and sound that rivals the HE400.
> ...




I like the stock sound very much, a small tweak sometimes would be all I'd want. And yes, I'm fully aware that headphones are the biggest variable in sound (with sound file compression and mastering quality basically tied), but since I LIKE the Q701 all around, I'd rather spend $10-$20 on a new tube than a new headphone.

At this point MLE, just stick with your reasoning that the SA-31 is all you'll ever need in an amp, and you can separately add a DAC or soundcard if you want, no hassle like you had with the NFB-5.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I like the stock sound very much, a small tweak sometimes would be all I'd want. And yes, I'm fully aware that headphones are the biggest variable in sound (with sound file compression and mastering quality basically tied), but since I LIKE the Q701 all around, I'd rather spend $10-$20 on a new tube than a new headphone.
> At this point MLE, just stick with your reasoning that the SA-31 is all you'll ever need in an amp, and you can separately add a DAC or soundcard if you want, no hassle like you had with the NFB-5.




True, but I kinda want the all in one like the NFB5 with an analog in... the Compass 2. I KNEW I should've went for that, but NOOOOO. I just HAD to go for more POWAH! :rolleyes:




ninjasushi2 said:


> MLE! Let me say I love you reviews first off. Some jack ass on Overclock.net called Simca was talking crap* on you but I straightened his ass out right, right quick... Never fear!!! Your fan club is here!




Haters gonna hate.


----------



## PanamaHat

I'm probably thinking backwards here but whats one of the best new games to sound whore on the xbox?


----------



## ruuku

Of the newest batch of games, probably Black Ops II, with Dead Silence and Awareness Perks activated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just finished the campaign, so I'll be playing multiplayer, soonish. Those two perks sound like I'll be using them exclusively.

I'll probably play Quantum Conundrum first, before I jump into BLOPSII multi.


----------



## PanamaHat

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Of the newest batch of games, probably Black Ops II, with Dead Silence and Awareness Perks activated.


 
  What about Halo 4?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ninjasushi2 said:


> MLE! Let me say I love you reviews first off. Some jack ass on Overclock.net called Simca was talking crap* on you but I straightened his ass out right, right quick... Never fear!!! Your fan club is here!


 
   
  Simca considers the Recon3D a better gaming card than the Titanium HD, whereas my opinion on the two is the exact opposite (everything Sound Core3D-based is a downgrade from a proper EMU20k1/20k2 X-Fi card, even without taking into account CMSS-3D Headphone vs. THX TruStudio Surround). Needless to say, I don't put too much stock in his opinions.
   
  I only lurk OCN, but I've been tempted to make an account just to straighten some things out on the audio forum. On the other hand, it's already pretty tiring just keeping Head-Fi in check, let alone other communities.
   
  Nevertheless, audio is one of those subjective things that nobody ever seems to agree on. For instance, it wasn't too long ago here on Head-Fi where I heard of someone not liking AD700 and Stax Lambda imaging because it sounded too diffused to his ears compared to, say, a typical Sennheiser set. Meanwhile, I never had problems hearing EXACTLY where a sound was coming from using either of those. (I wasn't entirely certain if he was talking stereo music listening or gaming with CMSS-3D or DH, though.)


----------



## ruuku

Halo 4 doesn't really have the playlists that really capitalize on sound whoring... like the Hardcore game modes in COD. That being said, you can still use Headphones/DH to gain an advantage in MP, but it won't be as important imho.


----------



## PanamaHat

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Halo 4 doesn't really have the playlists that really capitalize on sound whoring... like the Hardcore game modes in COD. That being said, you can still use Headphones/DH to gain an advantage in MP, but it won't be as important imho.


 
  That's a shame. I've been playing COD  for a while so I've been looking to switch to something else. Other options, borderlands?


----------



## Evshrug

panamahat said:


> I'm probably thinking backwards here but whats one of the best new games to sound whore on the xbox?




Well...
First I must caution you that I've just watched two episodes of The Big Bang theory, so I may be typing with the voice of Sheldon Cooper in my mind.

Sound whoring implies that you are interested in competitive games created to provide advantage with myriad details and subtle nuances designed to give various positional cues. The most recent competitive game great for sound whoring is Halo 4. Sound whoring is most useful in SWAT gametype, where footstep tracking and anticipation to set up the headshot first is king. 

Other recent FPS titles like Battlefield 3 and Modern Warfare 3 have epic explosions and some nice effects, tactical details like footsteps and small cues giving clues to direction and distance are weak in the mix or generally lacking in ability to afford the gamer with tangible benefit. MW3 can be improved for sound whoring with the pro levels of the Ninja and Sitrep perks, though of course that is in lieu of other viable perks. MLE maintains that Call of Duty: Black Ops has better sound design; I am of the opinion that the BO CoD was actually tolerably designed. BF3 tactical cues are usually drowned out by sound effects; though panning effects while in a jet dogfight can make for spectacular surround, the situations that actually provides information to give the player advantage are rare and of course lack 3D height effects if played on a console.

Uh... Big brain theory ended, and honestly I can't think of other recent competitive games that benefit from sound whoring. I haven't played the most recent horror games, but those may be good games even in single player. Dead Island is something I mean to pick up. In my particular case, I haven't been able to buy many games lately, and my GameStop subscription ran out a little while ago. Maybe others can fill you in with some more ideas on sound whore recent games.


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> Halo 4 doesn't really have the playlists that really capitalize on sound whoring... like the Hardcore game modes in COD. That being said, you can still use Headphones/DH to gain an advantage in MP, but it won't be as important imho.




IMO SWAT modes in Reach were very competitive. The map Longsword (ONI base) ruins the cat-and-mouse by making a lame top-floor camping ground, but most of the other maps have a nice ebb and flow. I look forward to SWAT in Halo 4 when I get Internet at home again, but I think even in regular competitive modes there is enough information to anticipate opponents, grenades, and weapon drops, since there aren't swarms of choppers and announcements of allied and enemy killstreak unlocks, like some of CoD's hardcore modes I believe.


----------



## PanamaHat

Thanks guys  Evshrug you're right about the announcer in COD. I think ill be picking up Halo 4 then ^_^


----------



## Evshrug

I want to try BlackOps2, but... Gotta take care. Of the check engine light that came on today.

Mad, who was that guy who really preferred stereo over surround for positional cues? I wouldn't say an opinion is wrong, but... pick a few examples so you don't sound like... Well, just say you don't want surround and it doesn't work for you, lol. Not bad.



panamahat said:


> Thanks guys  Evshrug you're right about the announcer in COD. I think ill be picking up Halo 4 then ^_^




343i really did a good job with the franchise, IMO. I mean, after 5 years of having favored CoD4 for competitive FPS personally, Halo 4 feels fresh and addresses a lot of the things that bugged me about CoD games, that got worse as the series went on. The sound quality is awesome, and directional cues are distinct, and the rest is up to taste... I love the taste, but then I love sci fi, run and gun gameplay, and all the other gravy like theater, Forge and community-made map highlights in the playlists, Co-op campaign, and the story feels distinctly Halo rather than generic action (Though it does reference past Halo games, Mass Effect, and Star War :O BF3 felt kinda generic). I they don't explain why the Covenant are enemies again (though it's easy to assume they're a sect of extra fanatic elites and "lesser" species), but they do a great job of developing Cortana and Chief as characters IMO. The live action mini-series is pretty cool, too.

I also want to try Dead Island, and Borderlands 2. Left 4 Dead had pretty good (but easy to hear) audio cues.


----------



## ruuku

evshrug said:


> The live action mini-series is pretty cool, too..



I agree, I was pretty epic... if you're at all a fan of Halo then the Live-Action was very entertaining. Watched all five in one go. If they expanded it into a weekly series I would definitely watch/DVR it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I want to try BlackOps2, but... Gotta take care. Of the check engine light that came on today.
> Mad, who was that guy who really preferred stereo over surround for positional cues? I wouldn't say an opinion is wrong, but... pick a few examples so you don't sound like... Well, just say you don't want surround and it doesn't work for you, lol. Not bad.




There's plenty of people who prefer stereo over virtual surround. If you go into virtual surround expecting pure audio fidelity, you're gonna be disappointed. You can't go into virtual surround with a headphone mentality. You have to go into it with an open mind, and expecting something that sounds very different from what you've been accustomed to in headphones.

But I have NEVER met a person who has tried virtual surround for a week who preferred to go back to plain stereo.

It takes time to adjust, but once you do, it's impossible to go back.


----------



## ostewart

At some point you should try to add Soundmagic HP100 and HP200, both would be great for gaming, only used HP100 for Battlefield 1942 (not good audio)


----------



## ostewart

At some point you should try to add Soundmagic HP100 and HP200, both would be great for gaming, only used HP100 for Battlefield 1942 (not good audio)


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





panamahat said:


> That's a shame. I've been playing COD  for a while so I've been looking to switch to something else. Other options, borderlands?


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I also want to try Dead Island, and Borderlands 2. Left 4 Dead had pretty good (but easy to hear) audio cues.


 
   
  I would highly suggest you give Borderlands 2 a shot if you have any interest in it at all. I am still really enjoying the game and I pre-ordered it. Keep in mind the the multiplayer isn't going to be CoDish at all it would be closer to a Halo co-op game (B2 co-op is definitely the preferred way to play this game). DH with B2 sounds great to me, obviously the positional ques aren't all that important because there isn't any "sneaky" game play but it does make the game very immersive. Great soundtrack and effects with lots of explosions, excellent voice acting and fun storyline. I actually cared about some of the characters with this game, which is hard to do in shooters nowadays (My opinion only).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There's plenty of people who prefer stereo over virtual surround. If you go into virtual surround expecting pure audio fidelity, you're gonna be disappointed. You can't go into virtual surround with a headphone mentality. You have to go into it with an open mind, and expecting something that sounds very different from what you've been accustomed to in headphones.
> But I have NEVER met a person who has tried virtual surround for a week who preferred to go back to plain stereo.
> It takes time to adjust, but once you do, it's impossible to go back.


 
   
  And that's the thing: I don't turn on virtual surround expecting the usual clarity and sound quality of a stereo headphone presentation. That's why I turn it off when listening to music.
   
  I turn it on expecting aural wallhack levels of knowing where every sound came from the instant I hear it, being immersed like I'm actually there in the environment with all this stuff happening around me instead of all the sounds being artificially positioned right beside my ears as a stereo mix would do, and it's done so convincingly that I immediately threw out any notions of buying complicated, expensive surround speaker systems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very much how I feel. I use it only when gaming and watching movies. Sometimes even like using the stereo upmix when watching TV shows. But never, ever for music.


----------



## Evshrug

Good news, we have regained Internet at the house! And, I couldn't resist, I played 2 hours of Halo 4. I'll tell you what: you don't need special playlists to make Halo 4 surround useful. I played 100% infinity slayer today, and you can locate enemies, weapon drops, that vehicle driving half a map away... Taste aside, the technical quality of this game is very high. My guess about gameplay being balanced, favoring bold aggression & good timing instead of camping, and the variety of movement options (tactically speaking) were accurate, but what I didn't guess was how fast it is! Almost wish the rounds lasted longer, lol. Can't wait to play spartan ops, but I'm on my way to the library to check out books on HTML coding and get to work improving my portfolio, so I can get a well-paying job.





fa11ou7 said:


> I would highly suggest you give Borderlands 2 a shot if you have any interest in it at all. I am still really enjoying the game and I pre-ordered it. Keep in mind the the multiplayer isn't going to be CoDish at all it would be closer to a Halo co-op game (B2 co-op is definitely the preferred way to play this game). DH with B2 sounds great to me, obviously the positional ques aren't all that important because there isn't any "sneaky" game play but it does make the game very immersive. Great soundtrack and effects with lots of explosions, excellent voice acting and fun storyline. I actually cared about some of the characters with this game, which is hard to do in shooters nowadays (My opinion only).




Fallout,
Though I've played CoD more than any other XBL game series (90% CoD4, though all at some point), I have beaten Borderlands. I imagine the sequel is more of the same, though much more polished since the first game had a ton of last-minute decisions made. Do they have matchmaking for Borderlands 2? I'm afraid there won't be anyone starting out in the game by the time I can afford to buy it. The fact that they developed characters and give enough personality that players invest in & care about them is encouraging. I'm sure it's very fun, and I look forward to playing it someday... Probably splitscreen.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Fallout,
> Though I've played CoD more than any other XBL game series (90% CoD4, though all at some point), I have beaten Borderlands. I imagine the sequel is more of the same, though much more polished since the first game had a ton of last-minute decisions made. Do they have matchmaking for Borderlands 2? I'm afraid there won't be anyone starting out in the game by the time I can afford to buy it. The fact that they developed characters and give enough personality that players invest in & care about them is encouraging. I'm sure it's very fun, and I look forward to playing it someday... Probably splitscreen.


 
   
  Yes Borderlands 2 has matchmaking and since there are 5 distinct characters this time there are always people starting over or playing alts so it should be pretty easy to find a group. I played the original and found it to be pretty boring but 2 has been much more engaging for me. I was able to talk my wife into playing with me and that has been fun but even solo is still pretty enjoyable though harder.


----------



## calpis

I would suggest playing BL2 solo first playthrough or with someone else that is playing it for the first time so you can stop and enjoy the story. If you get in a game with someone that has played it before then you run the risk of them just rushing ahead of you, opening all the chests, and skipping all the story beats. Also during your first playthrough, you should do EVERY quest that is available (cept for the raid boss). This is key especially when playing solo so you can be at an adequate enough level to not have a super hard time during main story quests. During your 2nd playthrough you should only play through main story quests and save the rest of the optional quests until you're level 50. Quest reward weapons/loot are locked to their quest level and when you max out at level 50, everything turns into a level 50 quest and you'll get around lvl 50 reward weapons. Or if you know what quest reward weapons you want, you can just save that particular quest until you reach the level cap. In my case, I'm saving the Law and Order quests until I reach the level cap.


----------



## Evshrug

Calpis,
Ugh, lately I've come to loathe power grinding. Don't get me wrong, I haven't actually been able to resist trying to experience everything a game has to offer, but after Bethesda's Fallout 3 and oblivion had so many side quests and monotonous time requirements for unlocking cool high-level abilities, I've come to realize that sometimes a grind is just a grind, and you don't even get paid for it like at work.

There were was a fun style to Borderlands, and it was more fun in co-op with someone who appreciated the same things as me, but to meet up regularly enough to keep the story moving is tough, and the first borderlands lost my interest shortly after beating it the first time. I mean, I want to play it, but getting scientific about maxing your potential sometimes takes the play out of it. Do you get what I mean?

On the other hand, maximizing compute potential for the lowest price while building my computer was what MADE it fun. If a developer can capitalize on that interest, and reward players enough along the way, then it's still fun. I just wasn't so interested in replaying all of Borderlands' side quests over again, and of course the story was the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like im not going to enjoy Blops II because of the maps.

In any case, the surround cues are actually damn good in multiplayer. There just isnt much in the way of footsteps. Shots, explosions, etc are all excellent.


----------



## rabinzero

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Looks like im not going to enjoy Blops II because of the maps.
> In any case, the surround cues are actually damn good in multiplayer. There just isnt much in the way of footsteps. Shots, explosions, etc are all excellent.


 
   
  I thought I was going to have the same issue.  Then today when I played I was finding myself head faking and killing enemies with no issue and the map designs made tons more sense.  There are a couple that are designed for chaotic action, but I can tolerate those.  I'll just have to be less aggressive on them.
   
  I'm with you on the sound.  I agree completely.  I've actually discovered Supercrunchy is the way to go...for my preferred listening experience anyway.  Treyarch Mix is good, but I wanted more fill and Supercrunchy did the trick.  Not only do I hear footsteps VERY well using Dead Silence and Awareness, the sound during gameplay alone is amazing!!!  I really am going to enjoy playing this game.


----------



## Evshrug

There's always an adjustment period for new maps. Glad it's starting to click for you, Rabinzero. What headphones & other equipment do you use in your setup?

On a personal note, I played an hour and a half of SWAT in Halo 4 yesterday. At first I was having fun, dismayed at rumors that SWAT was a temporary playlist that might be taken down, but then I got bored of SWAT and wanted to go back to Infinity Slayer. Then, around 10:30, my mom comes home and sees me playing, and now she's threatening to shut off the 'net again because it's "All you've done since I brought it back." Good thing what I ACTUALLY had been doing all day, between checking on Head-Fi, had been job hunting so I can leave and make my mom understand that it she won't suddenly save 40% on her living expenses nor read about me in the news as becoming a creature of violence and manslaughter. She will make a horrible, meddlesome in-law some day, not just because of games.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Calpis,
> Ugh, lately I've come to loathe power grinding. Don't get me wrong, I haven't actually been able to resist trying to experience everything a game has to offer, but after Bethesda's Fallout 3 and oblivion had so many side quests and monotonous time requirements for unlocking cool high-level abilities, I've come to realize that sometimes a grind is just a grind, and you don't even get paid for it like at work.
> There were was a fun style to Borderlands, and it was more fun in co-op with someone who appreciated the same things as me, but to meet up regularly enough to keep the story moving is tough, and the first borderlands lost my interest shortly after beating it the first time. I mean, I want to play it, but getting scientific about maxing your potential sometimes takes the play out of it. Do you get what I mean?
> On the other hand, maximizing compute potential for the lowest price while building my computer was what MADE it fun. If a developer can capitalize on that interest, and reward players enough along the way, then it's still fun. I just wasn't so interested in replaying all of Borderlands' side quests over again, and of course the story was the same.


 
  Nah, totally understand. But imo, the best story bits in BL2 happen to be the optional side quests. If you happen to do playthrough 2 then you're pretty much only doing it for high level gear and a much harder challenge. Hell, I never even got around to maxing out my level in BL1, I think I made it to 52 before I kinda stopped playing.


----------



## Hailin

Just finished the campaign in Halo 4. I was just wondering if anyone with a Mixamp and DT990 has massive distortion on things like ship engine sounds when they are flying over head. Gravity hammer also causes this. I think I have almost stopped it but I had to turn the volume on my mixamp to 50% then turn my Fiio E9 to high gain and just turn the volume up to match the old volume which was about 10 or 11 o'clock when I was on low gain. I also had a few moments like this while playing Uncharted 3 whenever something loud happened. There were 3 really bad moments.
   
  Another quick question I had was what would be an upgrade from the DT990pro? I have my Christmas bonus coming and I am thinking I should upgrade either my amp or headphones. That or I am going to grab a pair of closed headphones or wait for reviews on the AD900x.


----------



## clamchowder01

Hello,

 I just bought a Xonar Essence STX sound card along with Beyerdynamic MMX300 based on good feedback and recommendations.

 First, when I installed my STX, I got it working in a weird way.. I saw that the computer recognized my STX in the Device manager, but when I went to install the drivers.. at the end it told me to connect the device allowing me to Retry or Cancel the operation.. I clicked retry and it asked me a similar question. I cancelled it, restarted PC and saw that the Xonar audio center was in the quick bar so it was ok.

 When using the Unified Xonar Drivers.. it gave me the please connect device again, selected retry , it asked me to attach device again, I selected cancel. I restarted PC , saw no icon, and tried to install driver again and it told me that installation of driver is complete.

 To note I had to install my card in the PCI express x 4 slot because of my Gigabyte mobo config (This big blue thing makes it not possible to connect my card to the PCI-Exp x 1 slot.

 I get sound and stuff from the card, but I've noticed when playing Black ops 2, I sometimes got game pausing and few seconds of no sound. I have an error with DataRam RamDisk Device -> RamDiskVE saying that drivers can't be installed. Does that affect my sound card?

 Also, I am not really impressed with the surround sound I get from the setup of the STX / MMX 300. It's hard to tell where the sound is coming from when playing FPS shooters compared to my old Logitech z5500 5.1 system which my brother wanted to use, which causes me to ask if virtual or headphone true 5.1 is good as actual 5.1 speakers? The sound from the headphones sound like it's coming from everywhere still.

 I used the Dolby headphone (DH-2), xear 3d, 7.1 speaker shifter when gaming, 8-channel

 Should I return my card and headphones.. and just buy Steel series Siberia v2 headphones or Razer gaming headphones or am I expecting too much from headphones to produce good sound channel separation as actual 5.1 speaker setups?

 Music is great from the setup though. Haven't tried movies yet, but I'm thinking the sound separation is pretty much the same as the games.

 Anyone please help or have input? Sorry for long post.


----------



## clamchowder01

Also, when I play Black ops 2, after the game ends and everything is quiet and your viewing the score screen for that game, I can hear static.
   
  When it returns to the intermission/menu screen there is no more static... why is that?


----------



## chroniX

I wouldn't judge the positional qualities of your setup from blacks op 2 alone. I find that the game is terrible for sound whoring (at least without perks). I've been knifed in the back quite a few times in this game since I can't hear them coming behind me unless they're shooting or something. A game like CS:GO would be a much better test to gauge how well surround sound works with your headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





clamchowder01 said:


> I just bought a Xonar Essence STX sound card along with Beyerdynamic MMX300 based on good feedback and recommendations.
> First, when I installed my STX, I got it working in a weird way.. I saw that the computer recognized my STX in the Device manager, but when I went to install the drivers.. at the end it told me to connect the device allowing me to Retry or Cancel the operation.. I clicked retry and it asked me a similar question. I cancelled it, restarted PC and saw that the Xonar audio center was in the quick bar so it was ok.
> When using the Unified Xonar Drivers.. it gave me the please connect device again, selected retry , it asked me to attach device again, I selected cancel. I restarted PC , saw no icon, and tried to install driver again and it told me that installation of driver is complete.
> To note I had to install my card in the PCI express x 4 slot because of my Gigabyte mobo config (This big blue thing makes it not possible to connect my card to the PCI-Exp x 1 slot.
> ...


 
  Have you disabled the motherboard's built in audio (in the bios)?
   
  Sometimes Xonar drivers have been less then prefect on installation.
  Maybe try a clean reinstall of the drivers.
   
  Or try turning the computer off, remove the STX, turn computer on, after full boot up, turn computer back off, put STX back in the computer, turn computer back on.


----------



## chicolom

I got an email saying the Monoprice Dolby Headphone Decoder + headset is now in stock.  Someone grab it!
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10850&cs_id=1080910&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=2


----------



## clamchowder01

chronix said:


> I wouldn't judge the positional qualities of your setup from blacks op 2 alone. I find that the game is terrible for sound whoring (at least without perks). I've been knifed in the back quite a few times in this game since I can't hear them coming behind me unless they're shooting or something. A game like CS:GO would be a much better test to gauge how well surround sound works with your headphones.




Ah thx. I just sent my mmx300 to ups for return =(
I mite get dt990. I shoulda tried left 4 dead 2. The surround is reAlly good on that


----------



## clamchowder01

purpleangel said:


> Have you disabled the motherboard's built in audio (in the bios)?
> 
> Sometimes Xonar drivers have been less then prefect on installation.
> Maybe try a clean reinstall of the drivers.
> ...




Yes I have disabled on board audio and did a clean install of drivers with driver sweeper.

I'll try the power off stuff when I install the 1.53 unified drivers 

I need new headphones tho


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I got an email saying the Monoprice Dolby Headphone Decoder + headset is now in stock.  Someone grab it!
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10850&cs_id=1080910&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=2


 
   
  Me too, when you try to checkout it says not available  I chatted with a rep earlier and they said the date is still the 1st and apologized. I'll be picking one up that day and will post impressions here immediately.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I said to hell with it, traded in Black Ops II to Amazon for $40, and went to Gamestop and got the original and BEST FPS ever made.


Starting fresh, baby.

The positional cues, and footsteps = TOP NOTCH. I'm using the KSC35, and I'm just demolishing this game already. It's been years since I've played it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I said to hell with it, traded in Black Ops II to Amazon for $40, and went to Gamestop and got the original and BEST FPS ever made.
> 
> Starting fresh, baby.
> The positional cues, and footsteps = TOP NOTCH. I'm using the KSC35, and I'm just demolishing this game already. It's been years since I've played it.


 
   
  I entirely agree with this message. MP5 Silenced, Bomb Squad, UAV Jammer and Dead Silence = OWNAGE. How many people still play on PS3? Not many on xbox as there are SOOO many hackers.
   
  -Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Me too, when you try to checkout it says not available  I chatted with a rep earlier and they said the date is still the 1st and apologized.


 
   
  Doh!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not bad for the first day in ages...





burritoboy9984 said:


> I entirely agree with this message. MP5 Silenced, Bomb Squad, UAV Jammer and Dead Silence = OWNAGE. How many people still play on PS3? Not many on xbox as there are SOOO many hackers.
> 
> -Erik




Bah, boring and predictable CoD4 setup. 
J/K. I actually am very terrible with the MP5. I have NEVER been good with that gun. It just doesn't work for me.

Looks like the server is still fine, as I had no problems joining full games.

My fave setups:

*Free For All*

Skorpion w/Silencer
Bandolier
Stopping Power (or Sleight Of Hand)
Dead Silence
*
TDM*

AK47 w/no attachments (the AK47 is glitched and loses power if you use any attachment)
Bandolier
Stopping Power
Dead Silence

*TDM2*

G36C w/Red Dot Sight
Bandolier
Sleight Of Hand (I find this gun very fun with SoH, and very fast reload)
Dead Silence


*Sniper*

M40 w/ACOG (M40 is glitched and gets extra damage when using an ACOG, though barely noticeable)
C4
Stopping Power
Dead Silence

*Noobkiller *(when people are being cheap)

P90 w/Silencer
Bandolier
Double Tap
Dead Silence

*Anti-Air/TDM/Ground War*

RPD w/no attachments (the iron sight is amazing)
RPG-7x2
Stopping Power
Dead Silence

*Vacant/Wetworks*

M1014 shotgun
Bandolier
Sleight Of Hand (reloads the shotty absurdly quick)
Dead Silence

Whenever I'm trying to anti-sniper but don't wanna use the M40

G3 w/Red Dot Sight
Bandolier
Stopping Power
Dead Silence

Just for fun:

M16 w/silencer
Bandolier
Double Tap
Dead Silence

Not a lot of people use double tap for anything but the P90. People love the M16 w/RDS and Stopping Power as it's a very deadly weapon, but I find it too slow that way.

People hate when I use the G3, because I can press the trigger so fast, it's almost auto. They think I cheat.


I use Bandolier a lot because I don't die often, and need the extra ammo. Dead Silence is a given. It's necessary for soundwhoring. The game rewards you big time if you use DH+Headphones, unless they also use Dead Silence, in which then you're screwed and have to rely on gun fire sounds.

What the hell happened to the sound? It's been getting worse and worse with every new CoD.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What the hell happened to the sound? It's been getting worse and worse with every new CoD.


 
   
  The IW games are good. The 3arc games always suck for soundwhoring 
   
  -Erik


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I said to hell with it, traded in Black Ops II to Amazon for $40, and went to Gamestop and got the original and BEST FPS ever made.


 
   
  That's not Unreal Tournament...or Battlefield 1942...or Starsiege: Tribes/Tribes 2...or System Shock 2...or TimeSplitters 2/Future Perfect, or...actually, I can't decide what the best FPS ever made would be. Too many contenders.
   
  I miss the days when FPSs weren't all total unlock-a-thons and things boiled down more to player skill, or had engrossing singleplayer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, for me anyways. CoD4 was the second FPS I ever played (after the super awesome and unintentionally funny Battlefied 2: Modern Combat on 360). I had never ever played a shooter before that. Not Goldeneye, not Quake, not Doom, none. I picked up CoD4 and immediately fell in love. It changed my whole outlook on FPS games, though nothing since has ever captured that feeling, and believe me, I played a LOT of FPS games. The only other game to give me a wow feeling was Uncharted 2, though that was for campaign. Didn't bother with multiplayer.

As for soundwhoring, I don't have an issue with BLOPS. And MW3 is terrible for soundwhoring... and that's IW. BLOPS II has non-existent soundwhoring capabilities, though surround cues are good though not gonna give you any sort of edge.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, for me anyways. CoD4 was the second FPS I ever played (after the super awesome and unintentionally funny Battlefied 2: Modern Combat on 360). I had never ever played a shooter before that. Not Goldeneye, not Quake, not Doom, none. I picked up CoD4 and immediately fell in love. It changed my whole outlook on FPS games, though nothing since has ever captured that feeling, and believe me, I played a LOT of FPS games. The only other game to give me a wow feeling was Uncharted 2, though that was for campaign. Didn't bother with multiplayer.
> As for soundwhoring, I don't have an issue with BLOPS. And MW3 is terrible for soundwhoring... and that's IW. BLOPS II has non-existent soundwhoring capabilities, though surround cues are good though not gonna give you any sort of edge.


 
   
  I have to disagree for MW3, I RAPE people with the headphones. Directionality in that game for me is clear and precise.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Porter1

fond memories of COD4.  G3 + Silencer was my rage-inducing loadout of choice.  (not that i didn't join in with my own rage)


----------



## TMRaven

How the hell could you use the G3's iron sights.  My go-to silencer weapons in cod4 were m4 and p90.  Even tho mp5 is a better p90, for some reason p90 worked better in the constant laggy situations.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

P90 >>>>>> MP5. The P90 is the ultimate cheese weapon. Put double tap on, and just spray. Don't even have to toggle the aim or pray. It will kill faster than shotguns. Just aim in their general direction, and the P90's bullet speed+double tap would mow anything down. Bandolier is an absolute must. The Uzi is about as fast, but has HORRIBLE recoil.

And I agree, the G3 iron sights were atrocious. The RPD had the best irons, though I do like a silenced Skorpion as it just has a tiny nub and nothing else to obscure your vision. It also helps that the Skorpion has zero vertical recoil. It was all slightly horizontal, which was beneficial, as if you didn't get a 100% bead on the enemy, the horizontal recoil helped hit them anyways. It was basically a laser beam in CoD4. People would be in awe when I'd kill them with it from the other side of the map. The Skorpion was severely underrated. I mean, by all accounts, it's a terrible weapon. 20 rounds, weak as hell, and can't clear a room AT ALL, but if you use it in the right conditions (mainly FFA and anti-sniping... not rushing with it), it's accuracy and speed make it amazing. I think I had about 40,000 kills on the 360, and about 30,000 of those were Skorpion kills. I love that gun.


----------



## calpis

I use nothing but the pump shottys in all the cods. Maxed out the remmington (prestige and camo) within a couple days. I'm working on the KSG but damn is that gun hard to use.
   
  I do use the other guns too when I have to stop dicking around though. So far I love the new scorpion and the 2nd lmg in blops2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pump shottys are also one of my kryptonites. I never do well with them. Semi-autos or bust. I was lethal with the M1014 in CoD4, and the Spas-12 in BLOPS, but I admit to not being much of a shotgun person. Besides, the P90 with double tap (or rapid fire in MW2) was basically a never ending shotgun, heh.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I am playing around with the Philips Fidelio X1 since a few days and I am pleasantly surprised

- it's very very comfortable, it's number 2 for me behind HD 800 - I can't say though that the HD 800 is really better in that regard - I can wear the X1 for hours and hours and not want to take them off
- the material is of high quality, the whole build is well designed and crafted - kudos to Philips 

- soundstage isn't HD 800 (I don't think headphones need to be as in this case it's awesome for gaming) like but it's pretty good nonetheless and especially important: it's spacious with great positioning - rear channels are on spot. 
- no zingy or harsh treble, it's pretty smooth, it's actually astonishingly good
-mids are clear and beautiful, it's no LCD-2 or HD800 but those comparisons are unfair of course. They are better than T90/DT990/DT880/Ultrasones below Signature Pro, HE-400 as well. 
-bass is prominent and very fun


I think this X1 is the new "bang for the buck" king


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I am playing around with the Philips Fidelio X1 since a few days and I am pleasantly surprised
> - it's very very comfortable, it's number 2 for me behind HD 800 - I can't say though that the HD 800 is really better in that regard - I can wear the X1 for hours and hours and not want to take them off
> - the material is of high quality, the whole build is well designed and crafted - kudos to Philips
> - soundstage isn't HD 800 (I don't think headphones need to be as in this case it's awesome for gaming) like but it's pretty good nonetheless and especially important: it's spacious with great positioning - rear channels are on spot.
> ...


 

 Man, I'd love to try them...It's around 200 euros where I live. I'd have to sell my 990 though and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
   
  I wonder if they'd sound good with just the mixamp/dss alone.


----------



## Porter1

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> How the hell could you use the G3's iron sights.  My go-to silencer weapons in cod4 were m4 and p90.  Even tho mp5 is a better p90, for some reason p90 worked better in the constant laggy situations.


 

 they were worth putting up with.  the thing was a silenced sniper rifle, but much more agile and lethal.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Man, I'd love to try them...It's around 200 euros where I live. I'd have to sell my 990 though and that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
> 
> I wonder if they'd soon good with just the mixamp/dss alone.


 

 Yah they are in HE400 territory or higher for me up here in Canada. Just don't know if it would be worth it but I would love to hear them.


----------



## TMRaven

You could always silence the M16.  M16 is a sniper rifle, it's a one shot kill even when only 2 of its 3 shot burst hits.  The most dominant weapon in the game along with MP5 and the AK.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup, silent M16 plus Double Tap = win.


----------



## TMRaven

I don't know why you like double tap so much.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  There's like no reason to use any other perk2 in the game in place of Stopping power.  Without stopping power, M16 takes 3 bullets to kill instead of 2, and double tap just makes it run through ammo faster.  Frankly I don't even remember if it worked with double tap or not, it's been too long.  I do know about the only legitimate gun for double tap was the M60, because it killed in two bullets with or without stopping power.


----------



## Rebel975

mad lust envy said:


> P90 >>>>>> MP5. The P90 is the ultimate cheese weapon. Put double tap on, and just spray. Don't even have to toggle the aim or pray. It will kill faster than shotguns. Just aim in their general direction, and the P90's bullet speed+double tap would mow anything down. Bandolier is an absolute must. The Uzi is about as fast, but has HORRIBLE recoil.
> And I agree, the G3 iron sights were atrocious. The RPD had the best irons, though I do like a silenced Skorpion as it just has a tiny nub and nothing else to obscure your vision. It also helps that the Skorpion has zero vertical recoil. It was all slightly horizontal, which was beneficial, as if you didn't get a 100% bead on the enemy, the horizontal recoil helped hit them anyways. It was basically a laser beam in CoD4. People would be in awe when I'd kill them with it from the other side of the map. The Skorpion was severely underrated. I mean, by all accounts, it's a terrible weapon. 20 rounds, weak as hell, and can't clear a room AT ALL, but if you use it in the right conditions (mainly FFA and anti-sniping... not rushing with it), it's accuracy and speed make it amazing. I think I had about 40,000 kills on the 360, and about 30,000 of those were Skorpion kills. I love that gun.





I agree with all of this, except that I thought the G3 had perfect iron sights.

Anyway- I used to play a lot of cage matches, and would usually only play Killhouse and Shipment. On Killhouse I used to make people rage quit by using a Scorpion with an AC0G sight. I would stay up on my spawn-side's little building and manage to pick people off with that thing. It was ridiculously good. I'd even use juggernaut, as the scorpion doesn't need stopping power at all. 

Unfortunately, it started getting harder and harder to get a good game in, as people started doing all of these super cheese strategies. Ex: Use triple frag. Throw 2, and kill yourself with the 3rd. Infinite chances to kill the enemy, and no penalty for killing yourself.


@TMRaven: Pretty much, which is why CoD4 was the best CoD ever. It's been downhill ever since they took out stopping power. Now you can have everything you ever wanted (ghost, lightweight, etc.) and not lose anything important. CoD4? Choose one. UAV Jammer OR Stopping Power.


----------



## Porter1

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> I don't know why you like double tap so much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  i used double tap on just about everything (coincidentally, not the M16).  the M4 was vicious with double tap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, P90 much? The P90 with double tap sprayed bullets at a ridiculous rate, where there was no need to snap to a target. Just aim at their general direction without zooming, and they would go down. It was not as effective with stopping power. Trust me. Double Tap is better suited for fast rate of fire weapons, as it's more about quantity, not power per bullet.

Double Tap is worthwhile o the M16 because the burst come out much faster, and the break between the bursts is shortened. The M16's drawback was killing enemies running horizontally. Double tap remedies this. Also for stationary or enemies that run towards or away from you, one burst would still kill them. Stopping Power is very much a crutch (even for me), where it was useful for Snipers to guarantee a one hit kill, or something weak like the Skorpion which runs out of a clip in a hurry and that one extra bullet needed without Stopping Power is incredibly important, as you might reload in the middle of a 1v1 firefight.

SP is not always necessary. Use the M1014 with Sleight Of Hand for a few days. You'll see how Sttoping Power isn't necessary., and the ridiculous reload rate makes that shotty just dangerous.

I preferred SoH on the M60.
As for double tap burning through ammo, that's what Bandolier is for.

So many weapons shared ammo with the M16, M4, so you'd never really run out of ammo in the game, assuming you are using one of these guns and running over dead bodies.

I liked to experiment, and not rely on Stopping Power or UAV Jammer for everything. That's why Double Tap and Sleight of Hand proved their usefulness to me.


----------



## Evshrug

I agree about the P90 crown as ultimate cheese weapon, or "tryhard" gun. I personally hate the iron sights on it though, imprecise. I prefer the MP5 because it has a tighter grouping and more damage at range, and usually the firing speed doesn't get me killed while also sparing me from as frequent reloading. It also has finer iron sights that are easier to "feel" the center and place a headshot. Basically the same iron sight as the G3, so a silencer works devastatingly well on both for me. I HATE using iron sights on the US guns, though particularly on the M14 (which I use to piss around with). The thick ring and all that W junk make it difficult to readjust aim if you are ever hard scoping. I also liked the Skorpion iron sight, strangely it works very well for being a tiny blip, but a silencer on that gun makes the iron sight a lot harder for me to use. I get used to it, but still. MP44 irons work unusually well for me *shrug.* RPD sight is indeed awesome. I can't use UZI irons or even RDS because of the recoil, I do better barrel-stuffing enemies and relying on hip-fire techniques. Deagles' iron sights blow...

I enjoy the fact that the handguns are viable backups in this game. It's funny when you out-snipe a distant foe with an M9 - Pieooow! Also nice to have 30 extra rounds in an M9/MP5 class, it's like a free bandolier. 

In general, I have a hard time using an ACOG; I aim at the tip of the chevron, but I can't seem to count on the bullet going there. Sometimes I put them on SMGs as a joke though, and it actually seems to make guns do slightly more damage.
I found the bomb squad perk to be mostly useless.

Oh yes, CoD4 hacking was so bad for a while, you couldn't find a lobby that wasn't modded for griefing or free of aimbots, recoilbots, or wall hacks. For some reason, the game is starting to see a renaissance though... New players are joining, hackers are less predominant, and for some reason my buddy's router gets him picked as host most of the time so the mod menus don't work. I'm so glad... The game was getting unplayable for a long time leading up to MW3's release. If that game is what has started bringing people back to playing the first MW... then MW3 did something right


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, your problem is that you're using the sights on the P90 AT ALL. You're doing it wrong. Just aim without aiming down the sights. Close to medium range enemies WILL die, assuming you have DT. Pair it up with a silencer for some serious sneaky destruction.

And yes, M9 pistol is a monster in this game. No other FPS has pistols this good for me. Well, dual/Akimbo USP.45s on MW2 with last stand... just run around with these, and your Last Stand challenges will go by in a hurry.

Here's me shooting off the M9 and G3... with a standard Xbox controller. This is why people thought I was using a modded controller.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiZvPVlDt44[/VIDEO]


----------



## Evshrug

Lol I used the UZI and P90 the same way. Generally avoid using them because you run out of enemies too quickly, or they resort to noob tubes!

DUDE!
Your trigger finger is ridonkulous! I can max out the fire rate on some guns without double tap... but I dunno if I can twitch a trigger that fast!
Lol you make me want to iPad video upload my fire rate...


----------



## Evshrug

Also, I always felt Double-Tap increased your deadliness at short-med range, but at longer range, someone with stopping power can achieve a better DPS on a target. IMO it's about the distance you want to engage your target... You can certainly draw enemies to fight on grounds favoring your fighting style.

I prefer the one-shot kill and slightly better range of the W1200 shotty, hip-fire and you don't miss 

Not sure what my fav classes are anymore, I get in different moods. Usually go 'round between assault rifles, whichever one I'm doing better with that day. In general, though, I pick M21 for sniping, mostly because I had over half of my kills as headshots with that gun before I finished it's ACOG stat meter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I stopped using the G3 because of all the constant negative reps I got on my 360 account, calling me a cheater and stuff. I literally made myself slow down the trigger when using the M9, because of constant complaints of using a modded controller. :rolleyes:

Had a problem in Black Ops too, where the FAL would stop shooting if it detected the gun firing faster than *they *deem humanly possible. I'd die a lot because of it.

Almost all my Barrette 50 cal kills in CoD4 were close range hip fire spray. I'm not a very good sniper unless I use an ACOG. Takes me forever to get my 150 kills to get the ACOG on my Snipers. M40 w/ACOG all day err day.


----------



## TMRaven

Oh, I actually had G3 confused with the G36.  The G3's iron sights are decent, and that was my go-to gun for hardcore.  One shot kill.
   
  I've never ever experienced double tap increasing kill-potential in close range though, and my buddy and I both had around 60days' worth of playtime on cod4 each.  Giving up that extra bullet to kill people in favor of a faster fire-rate wasn't the best.  It's especially not good with silencer, as silencer already decreases the gun's effective range.
   
  My favorite classes were, at the time:
   
  M16 red dot, fragx3, stopping power, deep impact
  P90 silenced, fragx3, stopping power, extreme conditioning
  ak47 red dot, fragx3, stopping power, steady aim


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A47 w/Red dot = AK47 w/silencer in terms of power. It was glitched. It's stronger with no attachments, ACOG, or noobtube. 40/30 without RDS or Silencer, 40/20 with.

And trust me, use double tap with the right weapons. It WILL be more effective than Stopping Power, unless you're more of a long range shooter. I'm more of a close/medium range gamer, so double tap is more useful with certain weapons.

The range stat is pretty useless as is, as all it does is change damage output after a certain distance. With most guns, it's not a factor. For instance, the Skorpion is incredibly devastating at close range (2 shot kil). However, that range is so short, that just a few feet changes from tasking two shots, to taking 5 to kill an enemy. It's like shotgun range. So using a silencer is more beneficial for the Skorpion, as the range where it goes from high damage, to low damage is already so tiny. Just expect to take 5 shoots to down an enemy no matter what attachment unless it's headshots and/or they are Juggernauts.

IF you're using a gun that isn't the most accurate at longer distance, SP is definitely more useful. AK47 has that large vertical recoil, so it benefits more from Stopping Power, not to mention it has a slowish fire rate to begin with, so double tap isn't too useful.


----------



## TMRaven

Oh trust me, by effective range I'm not talking about the bar graphs the in-game screens give you.  I looked up all the true numbers on all the weapons years ago.  I never used AK47 at range anyways, so I preferred the red dot sight for more vision.
   
  There's actually been math and calculations done.  The only time double tap wins out over stopping power is on 30/20 guns at range.  Besides that, stopping power always kills faster.  (except M60 where stopping power is useless)
   
  This all takes into effect a no-lag scenario, so there's always the possibility of double tapping playing better with a certain latency issue than stopping power, but that's a case-by-case scenario dependent on the connection itself.  I know there'd be no reason for me to use P90 over MP5, and MP5 was actually my go-to rush weapon before christmas hit after cod4's release.  After christmas though, I had to switch to P90.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm more speaking of double taps usefulness in a sudden close range encounter where you have to hip fire. The faster rate of fire ensures more chances of hitting a target with hip fire. This is what makes the P90 so effective. It's the best alternative to a shotgun in sudden close range encounters. If you're mostly a ranged attacker, it's definitely best to use Stopping Power for most situations. I still prefer DT for the M16 though. I'm not a fan of burst fire weapons, unless they have a faster RoF, like the G11 in BLOPS, Famas in MW2, Type 95 in MW3, etc. I always found the M16 to have a horrible RoF without DT, personally. I know lots of people are evil with it, but I wasn't.

I've always been a medium/close range gamer, so SP isn't as useful when things get ugly.


----------



## Evshrug

Aw... My tube hybrid amp finally arrived. It is handsome to look at, yet cute in size. The craftsmanship is very good.
But
but...
the tube was smashed in the mail T_T

DT is close-range king because aiming down the sight slows you down too much. SP rocks at range because timing and recoil become so important. UAV Jam is devastating against people without headphones.

Gosh... I have the weirdest luck.


----------



## Evshrug

hailin said:


> Just finished the campaign in Halo 4. I was just wondering if anyone with a Mixamp and DT990 has massive distortion on things like ship engine sounds when they are flying over head. Gravity hammer also causes this. I think I have almost stopped it but I had to turn the volume on my mixamp to 50% then turn my Fiio E9 to high gain and just turn the volume up to match the old volume which was about 10 or 11 o'clock when I was on low gain. I also had a few moments like this while playing Uncharted 3 whenever something loud happened. There were 3 really bad moments.
> 
> Another quick question I had was what would be an upgrade from the DT990pro? I have my Christmas bonus coming and I am thinking I should upgrade either my amp or headphones. That or I am going to grab a pair of closed headphones or wait for reviews on the AD900x.:atsmile:




Did you detect what I mean about Star Wars reference? Also, smaller thing, the lights along Laskey's spine make me think of Dead Space's distinctive health bars. I loved the story, how about you?

I don't have the same setup as you... I notice nothing strange vs gravity hammers or overhead ships, with my Q701 and Recon3D. I did hear some strange distortions on Reach's start screen, but only there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bah, the KSC75's clips are just not good for the KSC35. I mean it sounds good, but the point where the clips connect to the KSC35 allow too much freedom and distance for the drivers and pulls it away from the ear, losing bass. Ironically, the KSC35 clips make the KSC75 sound better than the stock clips. Still, the KSC75 sounds better than the KSC35 when compairing them both with the KSC75 rubber clips, and the KSC35 sounds better than the KSC75 when using the KSC35 clips. All in all, best to keep the KSC35 clips on both for sound quality, and using the KSC75 with it's stock clips for comfort. What's interesting is that the KSC75 clips are actually harder to put on my ears than the KSC35.

So what I'm gonna do is use the KSC75 for work, when and only when the KSC35 starts to bother my ears, which is usually halfway through the shift, so they will definitely be getting their use. Put the KSC75 on, and immediately fell in love with them again. 

I wanna get some thin electrical tape and see if I can wrap it around the KSC35's clips so the hard edge doesn't dig into my ears.

Wanna know what's funny? My HE400 literally came in 2 minutes before the KSC75, and yet I haven't bothered with them yet. Lol. I did open them, and was happy to see the spare velour pads were packed in the HE400 box (though the pleather was on the HE400 itself.)

edit: Holy crap, I put on the HE400 (hooked up just to the E17 on Gain 0, and that SQ boost is ridonkulous. Holy crap. Lol. Insta-love.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Did you detect what I mean about Star Wars reference? Also, smaller thing, the lights along Laskey's spine make me think of Dead Space's distinctive health bars. I loved the story, how about you?
> I don't have the same setup as you... I notice nothing strange vs gravity hammers or overhead ships, with my Q701 and Recon3D. I did hear some strange distortions on Reach's start screen, but only there.


 
  No sorry I didn't catch the Star Wars reference I can be a tad dense sometimes if I am caught up in the story. Laskey's thing did remind me of Dead Space yes. Of course there Issac's armor alwayed looked like a pre-spartan armor to me. Of course there are not a lot of directions you can take with space armor.


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



I did love the story but I am sucker for Halo stories. I even felt bad for Chief at the end of the game. It very much can feel like a sci-fi soap opera. Which I guess OG Star Wars basically is as well. I enjoyed the after credits moments wish more games did that. The only thing I was confused on was the main villain. But I never read the books or researched any of waypoint before the game dropped. The part with Chief and the Librarian cleared some of it up but not enough I felt.


   
  After having to suffer through half of AC3 it was a welcome light fun romp with excellent shooting mechanics. The bob and weave spastic game play of COD/MW/BLOPS just leaves me stressed, Halo just feels like a comfortable old friend. I know I am probably alone in this thread on that feeling.
   
  I almost snatched a Recon 3D up for 30 bucks last months just to say I tried it, but with no DTS decoding I didn't see the point because it has the same tech as the astro at the most basic level. I wouldn't have probably heard it in Reach since my setup was new then and I wasn't double amping at that time.
  Still debating whether to upgrade my amp, my dt990pros or try a bigger nicer closed set over my CALs with the HM5 pads.(Which I FRIGGIN love to death)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, can you take a pic of the CAL with the HM5 pads? I'm curious as to what it looks like.


----------



## Evshrug

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I was referring to the Death Star Run -type moment. As I said, 343i paid a lot of attention to making you feel for the characters, especially the Chief and Cortana. The thing about Didact, without having read extra stuff, is he REALLY was determined to stop the humans, because they were once the forerunner's greatest threat (until the Flood, I assume). He also thought he was doing the moral thing by digitizing our race so we could be controlled, instead of outright exterminating us. Basically, in the game, he is trying to pick up where he left off. The Crucible thing — no, wait, I mean the Composer — was for humans what the Halos were for the flood. Forerunners think up the strangest solutions. Oh, also, I think composer technology messed up Didact's mind a bit, but that's just a guess. I doubt we've seen the last of him.



Mad,
It looks like a sailor hopped up on Spinach. Wearing CAL! headphones.


----------



## Rebel975

My favorite classes:
   
  AK47 with no attachments
  Ak74u with no attachments
  RPD with grip
  r700 with no attachments.
  m1014 with no attachments.
   
  I used stopping power on all of them except for the shotgun. I used juggernaut with that class. I also used RPG's with all of my classes lulz (except for the RPD, because the grip takes that option away). I liked the 74u because it had the bullet penetration capability of an assault rifle. I'd rarely ever see anyone else using it. Pretty much everyone else used "MP5 host connection" as we nerd-rageingly referred to it. lol
   
  We mostly played team tactical (and I played a lot of cage matches), so I usually ran with dead silence as well. Sound whoring was HUGE in CoD4. Now you can barely hear people, or in the case of BO2, you can't hear people jumping up and down behind you even when using the Awareness perk.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  OH ok I understand the SW reference now. Only part I didn't enjoy.
   
  I see where you are going with ME now too. Thanks for clearing that up and it does make perfect sense. Guess the Didact is going to be Jason Vorhees.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, can you take a pic of the CAL with the HM5 pads? I'm curious as to what it looks like.


 

 Yup I will do so when I get home tonight.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Bah, the KSC75's clips are just not good for the KSC35. I mean it sounds good, but the point where the clips connect to the KSC35 allow too much freedom and distance for the drivers and pulls it away from the ear, losing bass. Ironically, the KSC35 clips make the KSC75 sound better than the stock clips. Still, the KSC75 sounds better than the KSC35 when compairing them both with the KSC75 rubber clips, and the KSC35 sounds better than the KSC75 when using the KSC35 clips. All in all, best to keep the KSC35 clips on both for sound quality, and using the KSC75 with it's stock clips for comfort.


 
   
  I"m constantly bending my KSC 75 clips back so they push tighter against my ear and give better bass.  If you don't bend them they will naturally get bent farther and farther bent out from normal use.
   
  I wish KOSS would would sell a pack of replacement clips the same way they sell packs of replacement pads > http://www.amazon.com/Koss-PORT-REPLACEMENT-CUSHIONS-Replacement/dp/B000O2KIMO


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So much truth. Then I wouldn't feel bad about bending the clips.


----------



## calpis

tbh, in cod4 I double tapped my pump shotty waaaaaay more than acog'ing my skorpion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ACOG on anything that wasn't a sniper rifle was horrible! So much recoil, and view obstruction.


----------



## Rebel975

Except for the scorpion, which has basically no recoil at all. It's a great weapon to mess around with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ACOG adds sway though. I find the RDS to do everything better than the ACOG other than zooming in. I didn't find one situation where I really needed the zoom on the ACOG. The maps aren't that big on CoD4.


----------



## chicolom

I get the strange feeling this thread is getting off-topic....


----------



## Evshrug

Well hey, if the guide is still functional and the thread starter wants to talk about gaming...


----------



## Rebel975

I'm always down for reminiscing about CoD4. I put like 50 days of my life in to it. lol


----------



## Evshrug

rebel975 said:


> I'm always down for reminiscing about CoD4. I put like 50 days of my life in to it. lol



I almost went up and played CoD4, but then I saw Halo 4 was already in the disc tray, and well......


----------



## Hailin

Here are the pics MLE. Sorry for the crappy flash being on. Wow is my monitor stand dusty.


----------



## ParishRane

First of all, thank you SO much for the thread. The amount of work you've put into this is incredible. I know my question is probably not unique but I attempted to search and keep coming up with 3+ year old threads.
   
  I currently run a JVC RX900 with Zalman clip on. I'd like to move to something a little better for me. Currently the tips of my ears will begin to hurt after extended sessions as they press against the driver cover (I think that's the right name). I'm first looking for something that will be a little deeper in the earcup. Right now I'm leaning towards Q701 or DT990, however I don't know if either of them have deeper ears than the RX900?
   
  I would like a headphone that will allow me to feel the "engine rumble" in movies like Star Trek or when playing something like Mass Effect. The positional accuracy it provides takes a close second. I'm roughly looking at a $500ish budget stretched over the next odd months. I don't mind going over if it's going to REALLY pay off however I don't really need music type phones since it's about 20% of my usage at the computer.
   
  Thank you in advance.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





parishrane said:


> First of all, thank you SO much for the thread. The amount of work you've put into this is incredible. I know my question is probably not unique but I attempted to search and keep coming up with 3+ year old threads.
> 
> I currently run a JVC RX900 with Zalman clip on. I'd like to move to something a little better for me. Currently the tips of my ears will begin to hurt after extended sessions as they press against the driver cover (I think that's the right name). I'm first looking for something that will be a little deeper in the earcup. Right now I'm leaning towards Q701 or DT990, however I don't know if either of them have deeper ears than the RX900?
> 
> I would like a headphone that will allow me to feel the "engine rumble" in movies like Star Trek or when playing something like Mass Effect. The positional accuracy it provides takes a close second. I'm roughly looking at a $500ish budget stretched over the next odd months. I don't mind going over if it's going to REALLY pay off however I don't really need music type phones since it's about 20% of my usage at the computer.


 
  What are you currently using to drive your headphones?
  (what are they plugged into?)
   
  Headphone wise, DT990 or DT880.
  In 250-Ohm or 600-Ohm.
  The DT990 do have that "movie theater" like sound (full bass & full treble)
  But the balance of the DT880 make them great for all around headphones.


----------



## Hailin

I am sure there are other options. The DT990pro sort of has that kind of bass. They are super comfortable and even if your ear does touch the driver it has a foam insert over the driver for extra comfort. You really want a movie theatre bass. So the DT770(closed) or DT990(open). Been reading about the Philips X1 it seems to have that sort of bass but is twice the price of the DTpro versions.
  The Q701 isn't going to give you that sort of deep rumbling bass, it isn't designed for that though. It is closer to a sound whoring headphone.
   
  You never mentioned if you have an amp of any sort. You might want to include that in your price.
  The DT990 or Q701 are both a great place to start with your budget. I just don't think you will be really happy with the Q's unless mids and positional accuracy is an absolute must.
   
  I will give you the advice I give everyone who asks about headphones make sure you get it from a place with a good return policy. It really can take multiple pairs in some cases to find that perfect sound signature. 
  I am sure more will chime in and give you more options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Beyers have shallow ear cups. That is one of the most complaints they get. I'd get something else. If you truly have a $500 for this, I truly recommend the HE400 plus an E17. Well, thats over budget. Ok then. He400 plus hifiman velour pads, and an E11? The HE400 sounds fantastic off anything, and has that low rumble you want.


----------



## Evshrug

Chime!


parishrane said:


> First of all, thank you SO much for the thread. The amount of work you've put into this is incredible. I know my question is probably not unique but I attempted to search and keep coming up with 3+ year old threads.
> 
> I currently run a JVC RX900 with Zalman clip on. I'd like to move to something a little better for me. Currently the tips of my ears will begin to hurt after extended sessions as they press against the driver cover (I think that's the right name). I'm first looking for something that will be a little deeper in the earcup. Right now I'm leaning towards Q701 or DT990, however I don't know if either of them have deeper ears than the RX900?
> 
> ...




Having given a close friend a pair of JVC HA-RX900 (top pop modded), I can tell you that the Q701 are the first headphones I've used that are big and deep enough to rest on my head and leave my ears free. I find them VERY comfortable, especially after I wrapped the headband with a baby seatbelt-cover to cushion my thinning hair from the bumps, which only started to bother me between 1 and 2 hours if I let it rest in the same place.

I love the soundstage and emotional signature, and I really enjoy them for gaming. They have IMO an impressive rumble when called to do so, for example the anomalies in Metro 2033 sounded fantastic and really seemed to hit a subsonic WOAH! I should go back and play Mass Effect again now that I have these, but I'm having too much fun playing Halo 4 online at the moment.

I can't compare the Q701 to the DT990 from experience, but I've heard great things about booth headphones, and that the DT990 has an addictive bass level that doesn't defeat the rest of the sound spectrum.

2x consider a return policy, but I would add that both will probably please you with their high quality. Good luck!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Beyers have shallow ear cups. That is one of the most complaints they get. I'd get something else. If you truly have a $500 for this, I truly recommend the HE400 plus an E17. Well, thats over budget. Ok then. He400 plus hifiman velour pads, and an E11? The HE400 sounds fantastic off anything, and has that low rumble you want.


 
  Damn you MLE I am so close to wanting to pull the trigger on the HE400. Time to start saving hardcore I guess.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Definitely go for them! They are special.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/dp/B00A8LZ5GU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1353503266&sr=1-1&keywords=k702+65th

:eek:

For $350... I'd bite. For $500... absolutely not.


----------



## ParishRane

Wow. Thank you. I appreciate that. I will probably go for the HE400 then. I will be spreading this out over a couple months so I can afford everything. Hah. Thank you very much. I was leaning towards the DT990 but hearing about the earcups makes me nervous. I appreciate it. How does the HE400 pair up with a tube amp? I've never owned one but the typically described sound signature seems to match what I'm looking for. I'm thinking a Titanium X-Fi out to Headmagic A1 then to headphone?
   
  EDIT: I've seen a similar comment about the Q701 headband needing some additional padding. May I assume that the HE400 does not have that issue and is fine out of the box?


----------



## ZeeBAD

I need very good audio gaming setup 4 my pc so please help me.
   
  whose better headphone DT990 or D7000 ? are they on the same level ?
   
  i need overall good soundcard for movies and music  and speciallly for gaming ?
   
  do i need amp with the soundcard and the headphone ?
   
  is it true that there is 5.1 and 7.1 headphone/headsets ?


----------



## Naingolann

If you've got the money, definitely go for the D7000.
   
  Not really sure about soundcards...you've gotta wait fellow users more experiencend than me to get a proper answer.
   
  And yes there are 5.1/7.1 headsets, but from what I know (and experienced) they all sound "meh".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Assuming you can even find the D7000 nowadays. And if you do, prepare to pay a pretty penny.

The D7000 has the best sound signature I have personally heard for both music and gaming. The HE400 comes close, but doesnt have the positional cues of the D7000.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Well Monoprice let me checkout and order their gaming headset. We'll see if they actually have it to ship or if it is still a web site error.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Rexxen

Currently I'm using the hd595 w/claro halo as an amp. I originally bought the headphones for competitive halo 2 play, and such they're pretty old and quite beaten up from lans and daily use for the past seven years. Great build quality to last this long really. 
   
  I'll be buying the new astro mixamp whenever they decide to open it up for individual sale. While I'm at it I'd like to get an upgrade for my old hd595. I do listen to music (a mix of classic rock/pop/inde), comfort is pretty important to me (I have a smaller head/kinda prone to ear fatigue) but ultimately I'm looking for some comfortable headphones that have great competitive performance and at least mediocre all around music performance for a price point of $300 (not set but 500 is too expensive). Currently I'm thinking about a k702/q701. Can a claro halo sound card drive the q701? Thoughts on other headphones?


----------



## ZeeBAD

I asked those questions to help me make decent gaming audio setup so please answer me .
   
   
 whose better headphone DT990 or HE400 ? are they on the same level ?
  
 i need overall good soundcard for movies and music  and speciallly for gaming ?
  
 do i need amp with the soundcard and the headphone ?
  
 is it true that there is 5.1 and 7.1 headphone/headsets ? 
  
 and whose better headset or headphone ?


----------



## raband

Quote: 





rexxen said:


> Currently I'm using the hd595 w/claro halo as an amp. I originally bought the headphones for competitive halo 2 play, and such they're pretty old and quite beaten up from lans and daily use for the past seven years. Great build quality to last this long really.
> 
> I'll be buying the new astro mixamp whenever they decide to open it up for individual sale. While I'm at it I'd like to get an upgrade for my old hd595. I do listen to music (a mix of classic rock/pop/inde), comfort is pretty important to me (I have a smaller head/kinda prone to ear fatigue) but ultimately I'm looking for some comfortable headphones that have great competitive performance and at least mediocre all around music performance for a price point of $300 (not set but 500 is too expensive). Currently I'm thinking about a k702/q701. Can a claro halo sound card drive the q701? Thoughts on other headphones?


 
   
  See if you can have a try of the HD598's if you can. Extremely comfy for a small head, all the good points of the 595's with better clarity and soundstage (from what I've heard - haven't tried the 595's) and easy to drive.
   
  Definitely fantastic for gaming, but also no slouch for music.


----------



## chroniX

I recently upgraded from the HD595 to DT990 Premium / 600 ohm, and I'm loving it. The bass is simply astounding. I find the DT990 just as comfortable if not a little more so.

I'd say if you're looking for something more energetic and fun, go with the DT 990. Otherwise the Q701 would probably be a more natural upgrade coming from the 595s.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Monoprice headset shipped out. Will be here next Wednesday.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interested in hearing how good the amp is.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> I asked those questions to help me make decent gaming audio setup so please answer me .
> 
> 
> whose better headphone DT990 or HE400 ?  and  are they on the same level ?
> ...


 
1. No clue I haven't owned both. I do like my DT990pro a great deal, but I am dying to save up for the HE400 and purchase them.
2. I would ask in Nameless PC guide thread. The PC crew is over there and they have a lot better clue. I am going to say if you aren't going to buy an amp then yes you will want something like the ASUS STX, If you have an amp to add in the chain then no if your onboard (has Dolby headphone) doesn't have any static ground issues, if it does then just get a Asus DG for the Dac portion and to have the ability to have dolby headphone.
3. See 2
4. Yes and some people do enjoy them, Those people usually can't use Dolby Headphone or CMSS cause their hearing won't translate positional audio well. There was a reviewer over on the MLG boards that had this issue.
5. That is up to you and your needs. Usually headphones though. Exceptions would be Sennhieser PC360, and Beyerdynamic.MMX300. These headsets are based on already available headphones on the market that are usually cheaper because you are not paying for the mic tech that is built in.
   
Not sure if that clears anything up for you or not.


----------



## Fegefeuer

For me the HE-400 is the better music headphone, for gaming though I'd prefer the DT990. Both HE-400 and HE-500 lack spaciousness and imaging like DT990, T90 and above.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree. The air and overall positioning is noticeably better for gaming. The sound quality of the HE400 is amazing, and they work fine for gaming, but the 990 is better suited.


----------



## raband

WOW - my HD650's just turned up and yeah - they sounds great, but - now I know what you mean by the Sennheiser "clamp" MLE.

I was worried when I bought the 598's (from your review) but never had an issue - fitted like a glove from day 1, so I figured that maybe you just had a huge noggin .

Put the 650's on and within 20 mins I'm concentrating less on the sounds and more on the headphones 

I'm sure (and very, very hopeful) that they will loosen up and start to be comfy, but WOW - it's honestly not easy listening at the moment.

I took them off an hour ago and can still feel the pressure -


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Try to overextend the arms a bit, as in, wear them loose. That and try stretching them over books or something for a few days. Wider than your head.


----------



## raband

Yeah - my box set of LOTR is now wearing them 

I'm sure once the pads compress a bit and the band relaxes they will be fine -


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually would remove the pads first while doing that.

I stretched them out quite a bit, like overstretched to hell over my SA-31 amp, just to make sure it was as loose as it could get. It's kinda hard to make a plastic headphone loosen up it's clamp though.


----------



## ZeeBAD

I went to beyerdynamic.com and i made a compare between the DT990/DT880/MMX300 they were the same at every thing except  that the DT990 and DT880 their Headphone frequency response was from 5-35000 bt the MMX300 Headphone frequency response was from 5-30000 and there is another thing there was difference in the OHM
   
  1 - Am i going to feel that difference in the Headphone frequency response between DT990 and the MMX300 ?
   
  2 - what is Headphone frequency response means ?
   
  3 - what is the OHM means ?
   
  4 - if i not going to buy soundcard with built in amp lik Asus STX then what type of amp to buy (their name) ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't worry about those numbers. Those three headphones sound very different due to one being closed, one being semi open, and one being very open and bass and treble oriented.


----------



## ZeeBAD

So any one of these headphone will do the jop ? , And what about the amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the DT880 is weakest in terms of positional accuracy. The DT990 is very good at positinal cues. The MMX300 is basically a DT770 with a mic attached, and should be stellar for positional cues.

As for amps, I believe all of them need a desktop amp, contrary to popular belief that the 32ohm is easy to drive (it's not). The 250ohm is the only one that would get by with a portable amp like the E11, but still sounds better off a desktop amp. The 32ohm and 600ohm both want a desktop amp, but the 32ohm is more picky because it doesn't pair up well with amps that have more than 4 ohm output impedance (lots of desktop amps do, like the Fiio E9).

In short, I suggest 250ohm Beyers with a desktop amp. The high ohm makes it more versatile than the 32ohm, and they aren't as hard to drive as the 600ohm in both power needed, and volume level.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Sorry but i dont know anything about amps so whose best from these amps with DT990 ( E11 , E9 , astro 5.8 ).
   
  and if i have soundcard with built in amp like ASUS STX do i need desktop amp ?
   
  whose better headphone with amp or headphone with decent soundcard  or both ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> Sorry but I don't know anything about amps so whose best from these amps with DT990 ( E11 , E9 , Astro 5.8 ).
> 
> and if i have sound card with built in amp like ASUS STX do i need desktop amp ?
> 
> whose better headphone with amp or headphone with decent sound card  or both ?


 
  If you already have the Asus Xonar Essence STX, then you do not need to buy a separate headphone amplifier.


----------



## LB Felipe

Which is more suitable to be used with a newest Sound Blaster Z, beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms) or HiFiMAN HE-400?
   
  Remembering that this sound card has an amplifier capable of handling with 600-Ohm-headphones (according to Creative).


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I agree. The air and overall positioning is noticeably better for gaming. The sound quality of the HE400 is amazing, and they work fine for gaming, but the 990 is better suited.


 

 Hmm I might be back to the drawing table then. I would be using these for gaming/movies pretty strictly. Yes music would be played but through a L9 on the mixamp so the quality would be degraded. I am going to look at more reviews of Phillips X1 and DT770pro (Since I think the 600ohms are grossly overpriced in Canada.). Maybe a Mad Dog but I am like you in the fact I realllllly dislike pleather. I know my HM5 pads are pleather but they are on my CALs. Since they fit I might order some Shure 940 pads for fun. If anything I can put them on my HM5s and hope to hell it fixes the weird sound signature on them. Next to my other headphones I think they are pretty horrid.

 HM5s I could never recommend to anyone. The bass doesn't extend as far and as deep as the CALs, They don't have the overall clarity of the CALs or the DT990. The mids are the most present thing yet feel distant. So you can imagine what the rest of the sound signature sounds like. I think they are awful for the price. If you were using the Jaycar branded ones for 70 bucks then maybe they are worth the price but again why would you get them when you could wait for a sale on the CALs and spend a couple extra bucks on some pads if they are to small for your ears. Again this is strictly my opinions.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> Which is more suitable to be used with a newest Sound Blaster Z, beyerdynamic DT 990 Edition (600 Ohms) or HiFiMAN HE-400?
> 
> Remembering that this sound card has an amplifier capable of handling with 600-Ohm-headphones (according to Creative).


 
  Wonder how good the Sound Blaster Z is at driving 600-Ohm headphones?
   
  and I'm going to guess(?) the HE-400 is better for over all sound quality.


----------



## LB Felipe

Thank you.
   
  So, for an HE-400, should the Sound Blaster Z drive it without complaints?
   
  The HE-400 can be considered an excellent headphone for gaming, although the DT 990 is better?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> Thank you.
> 
> So, for an HE-400, should the Sound Blaster Z drive it without complaints?
> 
> The HE-400 can be considered an excellent headphone for gaming, although the DT 990 is better?


 
  As the HE-400 is only 38-Ohms, chances are it's easier to drive then the DT990 600-Ohm.
  Never seen a review on the HE-400 that says it hard to drive.
   
  For questions about driving the HE-400, maybe ask here.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-review


----------



## LB Felipe

[size=10pt]The question is DT 990 seems to be more gaming-friendly than HE-400 due to its one sided cable, velour pads for comfort, positional sound, etc. but the need for amplification is an against. I'd what to leave an external amplifier.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]If Sound Blaster Z was able to drive the DT 990 600-ohm, it'd perfect for gaming even we knowing sound quality of HE-400 is bigger.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]However MLE says the HE-400's comfort is better than one of DT 900 and that both are very similar in terms of competitive gaming.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]If he is right, so HE-400 would be better because it doesn't need an external amp when we have got SB Z. Is it right?[/size]
   
[size=10pt]My doubt falls over which from them is a better buy for gaming (not what is simplistically best for gaming in terms of competitive games).[/size]


----------



## ZeeBAD

Sorry but i need help what is the best portable amp ?
   
  and best over the ear headphone for it ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> Sorry but i need help what is the best portable amp ?
> 
> and best over the ear headphone for it ?


 
  I like to think the Fiio E11 is a good portable headphone amplifier ($51).
   
  What would be your budget for over the ear headphones?
  I'm assuming you will use closed headphone to block outside noise?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> [size=10pt]The question is DT 990 seems to be more gaming-friendly than HE-400 due to its one sided cable, velour pads for comfort, positional sound, etc. but the need for amplification is an against. I'd what to leave an external amplifier.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]If Sound Blaster Z was able to drive the DT 990 600-ohm, it'd perfect for gaming even we knowing sound quality of HE-400 is bigger.[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  How about.
  CreativeTitanium HD PCI-E, sometimes sells for $150, cheaper for used Titanium HD on eBay.
   
  O2 (Objective 2) portable headphone amplifier ($155), also works fine as desktop.
  Might find cheaper for a used one, eBay or Head-Fi  "Amplifiers for Sale" thread.
   
  DT990 Premium 600-Ohm, best price ($224) from ProAudioStar on eBay.


----------



## Mikesin

What happened to this review???
 You don't seem to be answering you PM's either..
    
  Quote:


tokendog said:


> Will do.
> 
> I went Q701 mainly based on MLE review of them AND the big factor that I have an accommodation with my work that gives me the Q701s at a nice discount - otherwise I would have went with or at least tried out the K series.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> Hmm I might be back to the drawing table then. I would be using these for gaming/movies pretty strictly. Yes music would be played but through a L9 on the mixamp so the quality would be degraded. I am going to look at more reviews of Phillips X1 and DT770pro (Since I think the 600ohms are grossly overpriced in Canada.). Maybe a Mad Dog but I am like you in the fact I realllllly dislike pleather. I know my HM5 pads are pleather but they are on my CALs. Since they fit I might order some Shure 940 pads for fun. If anything I can put them on my HM5s and hope to hell it fixes the weird sound signature on them. Next to my other headphones I think they are pretty horrid.
> 
> 
> HM5s I could never recommend to anyone. The bass doesn't extend as far and as deep as the CALs, They don't have the overall clarity of the CALs or the DT990. The mids are the most present thing yet feel distant. So you can imagine what the rest of the sound signature sounds like. I think they are awful for the price. If you were using the Jaycar branded ones for 70 bucks then maybe they are worth the price but again why would you get them when you could wait for a sale on the CALs and spend a couple extra bucks on some pads if they are to small for your ears. Again this is strictly my opinions.




You're overthinking how much the 990s are better than the HE400. They have an edge on positional cues, and air. That's it. The HE400 blows the DT990 away in every other way, and gives them a run for their money in those areas anyways. You'd be making a mistake by choosing the DT990 over the HE400 if you can spring for the HE400. The sound quality is in another league.

Remember, anything I give an 8 to is GREAT. Meaning you won't be gaining much in positional cues by going with the 990s over the HE400, but gain a big leap in SQ by going with the HE400.





lb felipe said:


> [SIZE=10pt]The question is DT 990 seems to be more gaming-friendly than HE-400 due to its one sided cable, velour pads for comfort, positional sound, etc. but the need for amplification is an against. I'd what to leave an external amplifier.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=10pt]However MLE says the HE-400's comfort is better than one of DT 900 and that both are very similar in terms of competitive gaming.[/SIZE]
> 
> ...




Uhh, people who buy the HE400 here ALWAYS buy the hifiman velour pads as well, as it adds sound quality AND comfort. I don't know anyone who uses the pleather on the HE400.

And yes, the HE400 is easier to drive than the DT990/600 by a LOT, but they still need amping to get the best out of them. Planar magnetic headphones love amping.

The question of which one is better for gaming is taken too strongly. Both are GREAT. You ONLY need GREAT. One great headphone for gaming isn't going to outdo another GREAT headphone for gaming by a significant amount. Only when I directly compare would I be like "Yeah the 990 has a slight advantage". In reality, both will be well suited. The 990 might be slightly better for gaming use, but the HE400 is a very noticeable leap in sound quality over the 990.

It's not like 990 would help me get a kill that the HE400 couldn't. They both would perform the same duties. The 990 just has more soundstage and air, due to a thinner sound. For example, remember, the AD700 is a very dry, thin sounding headphone. So would you choose the AD700 over the HE400? I sure as hell wouldn't. Yes, the AD700 is a competitive gaming beast, but the enjoyment factor is far below that of the HE400. The same could be said of the 990 to a lesser extent. It's thinner, and dry compared to the very natural, and engaging tone of the HE400.

I initially chose the 990 over the HE400 lasyt time, because the DT990 had a bigger bass presence. But I lost a lot of SQ by downgrading that way. Now that I have the HE400 again, I have no idea what I was on when I made that decision. The HE400 is an honest to goodness, amazing headphone suited practically for all purposes.


----------



## chroniX

Creative Sound Blaster Z SBX PCIE Gaming Sound Card with High-Beam Microphone SB1500 on sale for $83.99 at amazon. 

Shows up as 119.99 but you can enter promo code 12BLKFRI at checkout and get 30% off making it $83.99 and free shipping.

I would get one myself but I already have the Titanium HD.


----------



## LB Felipe

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> How about.
> CreativeTitanium HD PCI-E, sometimes sells for $150, cheaper for used Titanium HD on eBay.
> 
> O2 (Objective 2) portable headphone amplifier ($155), also works fine as desktop.
> ...


 
   
[size=10pt]Great! Thank you.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I already had thought about that. I live in Brazil and is hard to get O2 from JDS Labs (this is what I know that produce it. Now I see that you suggest ebay. Sorry).[/size]
   
[size=10pt]I don't speak English so many apologies for my bad text. What I meant is I'd like avoid an external amplifier, but your suggestion is very interesting.[/size]
   
[size=10pt]So do you think DT 990 is worth for gaming? Is HE-400 not an option when you think of great experience in competitiveness?[/size]


----------



## LB Felipe

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> (...)
> 
> Uhh, people who buy the HE400 here ALWAYS buy the hifiman velour pads as well, as it adds sound quality AND comfort. I don't know anyone who uses the pleather on the HE400.
> And yes, the HE400 is easier to drive than the DT990/600 by a LOT, but they still need amping to get the best out of them. Planar magnetic headphones love amping.
> ...


 
  Wow. I just saw this. Thank you for reply. Too long I'm going to translate it into Portuguese and, if necessary, back up here.


----------



## LB Felipe

MLEnvy, 
   
   
  now I read everything you said. It was very enlightening. It was precisely what I had deduced after reading your analysis and comments from colleagues.
   
  Can I say that there is no way to go wrong with the HE-400, also when thinking about gaming?
   
  I'd buy the following: HiFiMAN HE-400 and HiFiMAN Velour Earpads
   
  What is your guess on the SB Z? Will its 600-ohm-capable amp be able to extract the best sound of the HE-400?
   
  Thank you and everyone else who has answered me.
   
  SORRY FOR TRIPLE POST


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> [size=10pt]Great! Thank you.[/size]
> 
> [size=10pt]I already had thought about that. I live in Brazil and is hard to get O2 from JDS Labs (this is what I know that produce it. Now I see that you suggest eBay. Sorry).[/size]
> 
> ...


 
  Brazil, I stayed in Rio & Buzios for a week.
   
  Ti-HD (Titanium HD), O2, DT990 is just one suggestion.
   
  The HE-400 & SB-Z (Sound Blaster Z) would seem to also be a good choice.
   
  As I have no idea on what can be shipped to you in Brazil, All I can do is make random guesses.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE400 sounds good even off the E17, so I'm sure that soundcard would be fine. Planars don't go crazy with output impedance mismatches, so anything with power shoud be fine.


----------



## Evshrug

mikesin said:


> What happened to this review???
> 
> You don't seem to be answering you PM's either..




It appears he went a different direction, and has fallen in love with a high-end Fostex.

In my opinion, I went from the very bass-light AD700 headphones to the Q701, and I don't think the bass conceals details... If anything, the Q701 is more detailed. The Q701 is not even close to having overpowering bass, and would never be a target for a basshead can... I think bass sounds very natural and balanced, it's just where I want it. People usually say Q701 bass is either tight or even not strong as they want. The separation is also really good, so you can easily concentrate on one sound amongst everything else in a game or song.

You will not have trouble hearing footsteps with a Q701 vs any other headphone. A Sennheiser HD800 or Beyer T90 may have slightly better resolution, maybe better positional imaging, but footsteps, soundstage, imaging, and detail are all extremely good and easy to hear with all three headphones. It's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is faster than a Porsche GT2, but both cars can easily pass 100 mph. Hearing footsteps is like going 100 mph.


----------



## Mikesin

Hmm, I was looking forward to his review too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I've messaged him plenty of times since then, and none have been returned 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

 Anyway, its not that I have trouble hearing footsteps etc. (in fact I don't have trouble at all), I actually just want something that is overall better than what I have now, and the only true upgrade from the K702 is the HD800. But if the HD800 smashes the K702 at gaming, its just a huge plus.

 The primary use of the HD800 is definitely not for just games, but of course for music aswel. The K702 I have, I use for everything, its my primary headphone, as I just enjoy using them over all my other headphones even on genres that are not quite suited for the K702.
   
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> It appears he went a different direction, and has fallen in love with a high-end Fostex.
> In my opinion, I went from the very bass-light AD700 headphones to the Q701, and I don't think the bass conceals details... If anything, the Q701 is more detailed. The Q701 is not even close to having overpowering bass, and would never be a target for a basshead can... I think bass sounds very natural and balanced, it's just where I want it. People usually say Q701 bass is either tight or even not strong as they want. The separation is also really good, so you can easily concentrate on one sound amongst everything else in a game or song.
> You will not have trouble hearing footsteps with a Q701 vs any other headphone. A Sennheiser HD800 or Beyer T90 may have slightly better resolution, maybe better positional imaging, but footsteps, soundstage, imaging, and detail are all extremely good and easy to hear with all three headphones. It's like saying a Bugatti Veyron is faster than a Porsche GT2, but both cars can easily pass 100 mph. Hearing footsteps is like going 100 mph.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing great smashes another great anything for gaming. There is only so much detail and positional accuracy you can have before anything better is gonna be insignificant. The HD800 will definitely sound better, but in terms of positional cues, it's gonna be unnecessary and slight. It's not gonna give you an advantage over someone using an AD700, Q701, PC360, etc.

I think people are expecting way too much out of the differences between one great headphone and another.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think people are expecting way too much out of the differences between one great headphone and another.


 
   
  That happens a lot on Head-Fi, regardless of whether we're specifically discussing gaming audio or not.
   
  Sometimes, even I wonder if I'm exaggerating the differences between the SR-Lambda and SR-202 when I say that the latter has a recessed midrange (or, more specifically, the vocals don't stand out from the music, but are lost in it), and EQ doesn't really bring it forward in the same way, as there's also some sort of "grainy texture" all over the sound.
   
  It's actually why I'm a bit hesitant to buy this Sony ECR-500; impressions state that it's pretty godly with binaurally-mixed content (which, in turn, suggests that it would excel at gaming with CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, etc.) and also has significant bass presence by electrostatic standards, but also that it has a recessed midrange, which I already found out that I can't stand. That, and it's $200, which I don't have at the moment (and if I did, I'd be tempted to take another shot at getting a backwards-compatible PS3).
   
  All I know is that I have relatively little experience with the vast number of headphones on the market, but the one that I have and like, I _really_ like, and nothing has come close to it thus far, not even its own descendants. On top of that, my FR preferences are the opposite of most here in that I prefer a ^-shaped presentation with a forward midrange to bring out those vocals. Maybe I should just stop browsing Head-Fi and call it done.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800 is a total waste if you buy it for gaming alone, especially pairing a Mixamp with it. :confused_face(1):

I had the K701, many Beyers including the T1 and I can't recommend anything above T90. The T90 only if you can get a great deal, otherwise DT990 600 or something with lighter bass "should" be endgame.

Consoles are limited in memory and space, thus audio gets a cut. Even though some PS3 games offer much less compressed audio (most exclusives and a few multis like Hitman, Blur etc...) most games share the same audio files across all three platforms, being limited by the Xbox 360, and you really don't wanna know how limited some of them are. Skyrim for instance is totally embarassing in that regard. And then you need gear to extract that PCM audio (or the corresponding DTS encode) properly. Mixamp won't cut it. It's limited to AC3 and SQ isn't pretty.

Of course the situation is a bit better than years ago but is going backwards from a technical standpoint. While the Fear series (1+addons), Thief, Bioshock 1 utilize superior tech and better rendering than games today, the recordings are of lower quality. 

If you want the best and cleanest audio, you play on PC and a HD 800 makes much more sense but the above "rules" still apply.

With the new console generation upcoming it can only get better recording-wise. Rendering probably won't except on Sony exclusives or 343i games/Epic Games and a few better equipped or "gifted" studios.

Now don't misunderstand me. For me the HD 800 beats all others, it's SQ, imaging and soundstage is noticably superior to all of them, they are the finest for gaming that I know of but in the end you have to consider the limitations set by games.

_P.S.: At the moment I consider the Fidelio X1 the best bargain for gaming and music. If you live in the EU and can get your hand on them, do it while they are cheap. 

http://www.amazon.it/Philips-X1-00-Fidelio-Auricolari/dp/B008ZW2T7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353740252&sr=8-1_


----------



## NamelessPFG

On the matter of diminishing returns for games, it's safe to say that anything Stax is already gross overkill for gaming alone (going by my $250 Lambda price point, let alone the more realistic $350-450 figures), and the main reason I keep my Lambda setup is that it's a "do-it-all" headphone that also excels at music.
   
  I presume that's expected of all of the $300+ Tier A setups in the list, no matter the brand. Only the richest of audiophiles would have "specialized" headphones for specific purposes.
   
  And don't remind me on the path that gaming audio has taken over the years...recording quality may have gone up, but positional audio mixing and sound design has gone down, way down. (Well, some games still have good sound design with the effects, but the positioning still sucks. Frostbite engine Battlefield titles come to mind.)


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> That happens a lot on Head-Fi, regardless of whether we're specifically discussing gaming audio or not.
> 
> [...]
> 
> All I know is that I have relatively little experience with the vast number of headphones on the market, but the one that I have and like, I _really_ like, and nothing has come close to it thus far, not even its own descendants. On top of that, my FR preferences are the opposite of most here in that I prefer a ^-shaped presentation with a forward midrange to bring out those vocals. Maybe I should just stop browsing Head-Fi and call it done.




Nameless,
I doubt that you are alone in your preference for dominant mids, done very well. As you know, it's not just vocals that live in the midrange, but the vast majority of music and general audio information. More importantly, it would be a shame if you left Head-Fi. I did for a while, but I realized that though I didn't want to catch upgradeitis, I missed having people to talk to that had a shared interest with me for headphones and Hi-Fi. I hope to someday find out there are other Head-Fi'ers living nearby, perhaps holding meets or just sharing discoveries. I think there are enough people on Head-Fi that aren't here just for buying advice. Talking to those people makes the hobby more interesting and lively, don't you think?

P.s. having fun trying on my dad's Grados again :3


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> On the matter of diminishing returns for games, it's safe to say that anything Stax is already gross overkill for gaming alone (going by my $250 Lambda price point, let alone the more realistic $350-450 figures), and the main reason I keep my Lambda setup is that it's a "do-it-all" headphone that also excels at music.
> 
> I presume that's expected of all of the $300+ Tier A setups in the list, no matter the brand. Only the richest of audiophiles would have "specialized" headphones for specific purposes.
> 
> And don't remind me on the path that gaming audio has taken over the years...recording quality may have gone up, but positional audio mixing and sound design has gone down, way down. (Well, some games still have good sound design with the effects, but the positioning still sucks. Frostbite engine Battlefield titles come to mind.)




I think I said before: if all I wanted a headphone for was gaming, I wouldn't bother with anything above my AD700. I really appreciate it's value more now, with my surround processor, a bit of bass boost, and a rubber-band between the two wings (it's the perfect size/tension, completely transformed the fit, although it's orange and shaped in the outline of a doctor). It's funny that I'll switch between it and the Q701 now depending on my mood, but now the Q is always my go-to choice for music.

Sound design may have been stifled in the past 5 or so years, but it's possible we are on the verge of a renaissance. The "convenient choice" may gain the resources to set a new bar for audio, and now that there are more gamers with more budget for at least HTIB setups _and_ growth in the gaming headset market, the ground is fertile for great sound design and positioning as viable features to compete on. Sadly, I doubt the next generation of Xbox or Playstation will have built-in headphone ports because of the love of wireless headsets and controllers (I hope chat options don't become more restricted), but I wouldn't be surprised if they added binaural mixing or at least more surround channels that external processors can take advantage of.

Anyway, here's hoping. G'night!


----------



## Fegefeuer

The problem with external devices is that they can't handle/change/process the streams/voices directly and render/place each of them into a complex HRTF model (FIR filters etc..) but just virtualize the finalized ouput to 5.1/7.1. It's better than stereo, yes, but it's not enough. Far from it. 

So we either need game engines process binaural internally (with the help of middleware or even hardware dsp) and output the finalized binaural stereo signal or send additional information towards external devices within a standard that lets them do the processing. This would however possibly lead to delays and setting up such a standard isn't realistic either.

Sound is just not a high priority for most consumers unfortunately. The only brightside is that gaming is more and more less of a niche and as Evshrug said, more and more focus is towards audio gear thanks to the headphone boom in the recent years.


----------



## jasonb

I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anybody compared Silent Cinema against the likes of the DSS, DSS2, and the Mixamp? My Yamaha receiver has Silent Cinema built in and I would just like to know if it is essentially the same thing as the Mixamp, and DSS units. Should I use what I have or should I get a Mixamp?
   
  My system is PS3 - optical 5.1 to Yamaha RX-V2500 -> Q701. 
   
  Also, I know the parameters for Silent Cinema are adjustable on my receiver, but I haven't played with them yet.


----------



## Impulse

Thanks for that HD650 review, good read. They were sorta that dream goal for me early on as well but I think if I ever upgrade from the DT 880's I'll definitely be leaning towards the HE-400s (not sure if my STX by itself could handle them tho). Do you ever reach for another pair of headphones at home anymore?


----------



## TMRaven

Mad Lust Envy, could you give a brief comparison between the DT880 and HD598?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Thanks for that HD650 review, good read. They were sorta that dream goal for me early on as well but I think if I ever upgrade from the DT 880's I'll definitely be leaning towards the HE-400s (not sure if my STX by itself could handle them tho). Do you ever reach for another pair of headphones at home anymore?


 
  The Essence STX can drive 600-Ohm headphones, the HE-400s are 38-Ohms.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anybody compared Silent Cinema against the likes of the DSS, DSS2, and the Mixamp? My Yamaha receiver has Silent Cinema built in and I would just like to know if it is essentially the same thing as the Mixamp, and DSS units. Should I use what I have or should I get a Mixamp?
> 
> My system is PS3 - optical 5.1 to Yamaha RX-V2500 -> Q701.
> 
> Also, I know the parameters for Silent Cinema are adjustable on my receiver, but I haven't played with them yet.


 
  I have no problems with the headphone surround sound of my Silent Cinema (Yamaha RX-V671)
  Does your PS3 have HDMI?
  If so, run HDMI from the PS3 to the Yamaha, then run HDMI from the Yamaha to your TV/monitor.
  S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is compressed 6-channel (5.1) 24-bit/48Khz digital audio
  HDMI is PCM (uncompressed) 8-channel (7.1) 24-bit/192KHz digital audio.


----------



## jasonb

My PS3 does have HDMI, but my Yamaha receiver does not. The RX-V2500 is actually quite old. It was purchased right before HDMI became a common thing. So I have optical going from the PS3 to the receiver, and HDMI directly from the PS3 to my TV. This receiver still works perfectly fine, so until it dies I will be using it. It has 130 watts per channel (x7) and it actually sounds quite good with music and movies. I have my front speakers (Infinity Alpha 50's) bi-amped from it for music so it actually sounds quite good and gets loud too. 
   
  Being that it is old, it would also have an old version of the Cinema DSP... 
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I have no problems with the headphone surround sound of my Silent Cinema (Yamaha RX-V671)
> Does your PS3 have HDMI?
> If so, run HDMI from the PS3 to the Yamaha, then run HDMI from the Yamaha to your TV/monitor.
> S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is compressed 6-channel (5.1) 24-bit/48Khz digital audio
> HDMI is PCM (uncompressed) 8-channel (7.1) 24-bit/192KHz digital audio.


----------



## Impulse

purpleangel said:


> The Essence STX can drive 600-Ohm headphones, the HE-400s are 38-Ohms.




Huh, didn't realize that, for some reason I had this notion that they were more demanding (maybe because they're planars? /shrug). If their impedance's actually that low I might have an opposite issue, bass might sound flabby due to the STX's high output impedance.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> My PS3 does have HDMI, but my Yamaha receiver does not. The RX-V2500 is actually quite old. It was purchased right before HDMI became a common thing. So I have optical going from the PS3 to the receiver, and HDMI directly from the PS3 to my TV. This receiver still works perfectly fine, so until it dies I will be using it. It has 130 watts per channel (x7) and it actually sounds quite good with music and movies. I have my front speakers (Infinity Alpha 50's) bi-amped from it for music so it actually sounds quite good and gets loud too.
> 
> Being that it is old, it would also have an old version of the Cinema DSP...


 
  I have never found infomation on different versions of Silent Cinema.
   
  I would say hold off spending cash for something like the Astro mix-amp and save up for a newer receiver.
  I believe S/PDIF optical & coaxial can not pass full blu-ray audio, so you would want to get something with HDMI.
  Yamaha RX-V667, RX-A700, RX-A710, RX-V671 would be good choices as they are the cheapest Yamahas with the better built in speaker amplifiers.


----------



## jasonb

Getting a new receiver, especially when this one works fine is out of the question. The receiver I have cost $1100 when I got it. It's still a quality unit and still works as flawlessly as the day that I got it. I know that optical cannot pass full blu-ray audio, I'm fine with that. Optical maxes out at 1.5mbps, so yes it's compressed, but It sounds just fine. I'm not that critical when gaming or watching movies anyway. HDMI is not going to make my music sound any better, and music is what i listen critically to. 
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I have never found infomation on different versions of Silent Cinema.
> 
> I would say hold off spending cash for something like the Astro mix-amp and save up for a newer receiver.
> I believe S/PDIF optical & coaxial can not pass full blu-ray audio, so you would want to get something with HDMI.
> Yamaha RX-V667, RX-A700, RX-A710, RX-V671 would be good choices as they are the cheapest Yamahas with the better built in speaker amplifiers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Huh, didn't realize that, for some reason I had this notion that they were more demanding (maybe because they're planars? /shrug). If their impedance's actually that low I might have an opposite issue, bass might sound flabby due to the STX's high output impedance.


 
  Maybe try read up and asking all your HE-400 questions on this thread, should get some informative answers there.
   
  EDIT  Big oops, I forget to add the HE-400 link.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-review


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jasonb said:


> Getting a new receiver, especially when this one works fine is out of the question. The receiver I have cost $1100 when I got it. It's still a quality unit and still works as flawlessly as the day that I got it. I know that optical cannot pass full blu-ray audio, I'm fine with that. Optical maxes out at 1.5mbps, so yes it's compressed, but It sounds just fine. I'm not that critical when gaming or watching movies anyway. HDMI is not going to make my music sound any better, and music is what i listen critically to.


 
  Cool.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The problem with external devices is that they can't handle/change/process the streams/voices directly and render/place each of them into a complex HRTF model (FIR filters etc..) but just virtualize the finalized ouput to 5.1/7.1. It's better than stereo, yes, but it's not enough. Far from it.
> So we either need game engines process binaural internally (with the help of middleware or even hardware dsp) and output the finalized binaural stereo signal or send additional information towards external devices within a standard that lets them do the processing. This would however possibly lead to delays and setting up such a standard isn't realistic either.
> Sound is just not a high priority for most consumers unfortunately. The only brightside is that gaming is more and more less of a niche and as Evshrug said, more and more focus is towards audio gear thanks to the headphone boom in the recent years.


 
   
  There is a standard that could be used for binaural processing on external devices: ambisonic B-format. As a bonus, those who prefer speakers aren't necessarily limited to fixed speaker configurations, either.
   
  Problem is, I don't know of any software designed to encode and output ambisonic data on-the-fly, and the format itself is quite obscure. (Frankly, I never even heard of it until I started looking into Rapture3D, wondering why DiRT 2 used it. As it turns out, Codemasters likes working with ambisonic formats for their racing games.)
   
  It would be much more practical just to get a binaural HRTF mix option integrated into FMOD and other popular audio middleware; why it hasn't been done already is beyond me. Aureal was already doing it by default for A3D games in the late 1990s!


----------



## fauaad

Would I need a Mixamp or one of the other devices to use PC360s on a console?


----------



## Naingolann

Just go with the Mixamp. You could also get a DSS, but you'd need an USB mic adapter as well.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





fauaad said:


> Would I need a Mixamp or one of the other devices to use PC360s on a console?


 
   
  Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Just go with the Mixamp. You could also get a DSS, but you'd need an USB mic adapter as well.


 
   
  If you can get a Mixamp for cheap, you should go with that. But if you don't mind waiting until Wednesday, I ordered the Monoprice Gaming Headset (includes a mixamp type device), and I'll be posting my impressions. The entire Monoprice headset is cheaper than just the mixamp.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mikesin

Thanks for the reply, but I did not once say I was going to be pairing these up with the Mixamp, let alone to just the PS3 alone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . (That seems to me at what your getting at anyway)
  Not all gaming is done on the console you know 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. But yes, I would still be using them on the PS3 and *PC* anyway, I could use the FiiO E9 that is unused to give them the extra power, if not I could add the Mstage to the Mixamp somehow.
  I did also say that these weren't just for gaming either and was wondering if these were on par or beter than the K702 in terms on soundstage gaming etc 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.

  
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> HD 800 is a total waste if you buy it for gaming alone, especially pairing a Mixamp with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Naingolann

Guys, keep an eye on the Cyber Monday @ amazon.de. They're going to sell a Yamaha RX-V473 for those interested in the Silent Cinema feature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> Mad Lust Envy, could you give a brief comparison between the DT880 and HD598?




Sure. I prefer the DT880 for pretty much everything but competitive gaming.

The DT880 has a fuller, more energetic sound. Stronger bass presence, sparkly treble, and overall balanced sound, with slight mid recession (slight!).

The HD598 has a bigger soundstage depth and width, prominent mids, and airier sound. However, I find the HD598 a bit boring, and the prominent mids don't blend in as well with the rest of the sound. It's no HD650, that's for sure. The bass is okay, and the treble is good and not overbearing, but I don't find it particularly musical. I actually prefer the 558 over the 598. The 558 is warmer and more musical, though not as detailed. I find the 598's mids to be a bit too prominent and shouty, IMHO. I much prefer the mids on the 650, Q701, and ESW9 which were mid forward, but blended well with the rest of the sound.

If gaming isn't number one priority, the DT880 is superior to the 598. The DT880 just doesn't have the best positional accuracy, with not a lot of soundstage depth.

Anything you wanna know in particular?


----------



## TMRaven

A buddy is currently borrowing my he-400, and looking for a headphone around 200usd for christmas.  After hearing the he-400 for a bit, he's stated that his preferences in sound are as follows (open/closed does not matter)
   
  1: clear sound
  2: bass/mids
   
  He listens to mostly rock and rap.
   
   
  My first thoughts were HD598 and DT880.  I just think DT880 would be the better overall option, as it would have the bass that 598 doesn't have.  I didn't find the 598's bass too impressive either when I tried them out.  Of course we would be talking about the pro 250Ω variant of the DT880 which is 220 on amazon, but I'm no big skeptic over differences in the beyer models in the first place.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the DT880 is a lovely headphone. One of the best balanced headphones I've heard. The mids are it's weak link, but it's ever so slightly pushed back, not overly so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, rock and rap? Honestly, that sounds like a job for the DT990 Pro which is under $200. Just not sure about how much he'd like the mids. But for a bassy headphone, it's the best tradeoff I've heard. Not sure the DT880 bass would be good enough for rap. It's got good bass, though.


----------



## TMRaven

I'm hesitant to recommend the DT990.  It's a very trebly headphone and very cold, and it could also play really bad with any possible badly mixed rap and metal records.  DT880 is the safer bet.  If there were any HE-400s of the world in the 200 dollar range, that'd be an easy recommendations, but sadly not many headphones carry that sound signature.  Any headphone can have bass good enough for rap, as long as it extends naturally.  EQ can take care of the rest, but if the headphone doesn't extend naturally, EQ won't do much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pro is warmer than the 990/600, btw. Noticeable, even. But I understand your fears.


----------



## fauaad

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Just go with the Mixamp. You could also get a DSS, but you'd need an USB mic adapter as well.


 
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> If you can get a Mixamp for cheap, you should go with that.


 
   
  Thing is, if I do go for the PC360, then I wouldn't be able to afford the Mixamp. The Senn website led me to the 360s after I selected both PS3 and PC. For PS3 only, it led me to some U 320. Any idea how those are?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





fauaad said:


> Thing is, if I do go for the PC360, then I wouldn't be able to afford the Mixamp. The Senn website led me to the 360s after I selected both PS3 and PC. For PS3 only, it led me to some U 320. Any idea how those are?


 
  Used Senn HD558s at Amazon for $129 + 8 shipping, then add any mic you like.


----------



## Evshrug

jasonb said:


> I haven't read through this entire thread, but has anybody compared Silent Cinema against the likes of the DSS, DSS2, and the Mixamp? My Yamaha receiver has Silent Cinema built in and I would just like to know if it is essentially the same thing as the Mixamp, and DSS units. Should I use what I have or should I get a Mixamp?
> 
> My system is PS3 - optical 5.1 to Yamaha RX-V2500 -> Q701.
> 
> Also, I know the parameters for Silent Cinema are adjustable on my receiver, but I haven't played with them yet.




Silent Cinema works well and has more "depth" than my Recon3D with my Q701s, but SC has echo that you have to get used to. I like "action game" with a few negative adjustments to DSP strength, echo is reduced enough that I can get used to it. However, I have noticed that the Recon3D's soundstage presented by the Q701 OS broadened by powerful amping, and to me it is clear the Recon3D has more complex 5.1 to virtual surround processing.

But if you try SC and you like it, I wouldn't worry about finding an extra solution. There isn't much to separate virtual surround. I honestly bought my processor solely because I also wanted an external soundcard for my Mac, and because I would be unable to use my receiver in the short term for several months. Otherwise I would've just figured out how to hook up both console and computer to the receiver (mine has a few HDMI inputs). It's amazing how low-cost receivers have become and the numerous features you get for low-cost.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Wondering if anyone has tried the he-500 with dolby headphone. I plan on getting these headphones no matter what for music. Won't matter much if they don't have good accurate imaging or soundstage because i find the 2013 a40 bundle to be exceptional compared to the old. The headphone itself has more bass and that is nice but i find the real winner to be the new mixamp pro. I'm pretty sure they use a higher quality dac than all the other mixamps as i've gotten a new pair for christmas every year. I plugged in my older a40's a30's my d2000's and 598's and all of them sounded more full and detailed then they did before. Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too.


----------



## lubczyk

So, does someone actually have gaming impressions using the Fidelio X1?


----------



## Impulse

purpleangel said:


> Used Senn HD558s at Amazon for $129 + 8 shipping, then add any mic you like.




Yeah, you'll often find them used closer to $100 even.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

doctacosmos said:


> Wondering if anyone has tried the he-500 with dolby headphone. I plan on getting these headphones no matter what for music. Won't matter much if they don't have good accurate imaging or soundstage because i find the 2013 a40 bundle to be exceptional compared to the old. The headphone itself has more bass and that is nice but i find the real winner to be the new mixamp pro. I'm pretty sure they use a higher quality dac than all the other mixamps as i've gotten a new pair for christmas every year. I plugged in my older a40's a30's my d2000's and 598's and all of them sounded more full and detailed then they did before. Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too.




Heard its worse than the HE400 for such things. In fact, I think I was being too generous on the competitive score for the HE400. I may have to adjust it to a 7.5. To sum it up, they work, bit they lag behind a bit, so if competitive is a must, theres noticeably better. I woildnt get planars for such things. However, if youre already getting it, then theyll be decent.


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Wondering if anyone has tried the he-500 with dolby headphone. I plan on getting these headphones no matter what for music. Won't matter much if they don't have good accurate imaging or soundstage because i find the 2013 a40 bundle to be exceptional compared to the old. The headphone itself has more bass and that is nice but i find the real winner to be the new mixamp pro. I'm pretty sure they use a higher quality dac than all the other mixamps as i've gotten a new pair for christmas every year. I plugged in my older a40's a30's my d2000's and 598's and all of them sounded more full and detailed then they did before. Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too.


 
   
   
  I used to use the HE-500's with a mixamp. MLE is right- they're not the best for competitive gaming, but their bass and overall SQ made up for it IMO. I even used a nice Audio Technica mic and a microphone preamp with the Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nice! Lol. Only on head-fi, lol.


----------



## Rebel975

I kept finding that cheap mics had sensitivity issues. The Audio Technica mic + preamp allowed me to make it as quiet or as sensitive as I wanted. I used to troll people by hitting the +20dB switch on it. lol


----------



## Mikesin

mad lust envy said:


> Heard its worse than the HE400 for such things. In fact, I think I was being too generous on the competitive score for the HE400. I may have to adjust it to a 7.5. To sum it up, they work, bit they lag behind a bit, so if competitive is a must, theres noticeably better. I woildnt get planars for such things. However, if youre already getting it, then theyll be decent.



 
 I also personally found your competitive score for the HE400 rather high for what it produced.. especially when compared to the AKG K702. Your results with the headphones I have tried are pretty accurate to be fair .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I originally gave it a 7, until I double amped. I'll adjust it in a bit.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> So, does someone actually have gaming impressions using the Fidelio X1?


 

 I'd also be interested in this...From what I've read so far, they might come close to the Q701.
   
  HD558 on tomorrow's Cyber Monday @ Amazon.de.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

will be double amping with asgard
  I figured the planars weren't that great from what i have read about them for gaming but after reading battle of the flagships forum and seeing the 500 had a 9.5 i think for imaging and soundstage, i thought maybe there was a difference between the two. 
  Thanks for the input


----------



## Evshrug

doctacosmos said:


> Wondering if anyone has tried the he-500 with dolby headphone. I plan on getting these headphones no matter what for music. Won't matter much if they don't have good accurate imaging or soundstage because i find the 2013 a40 bundle to be exceptional compared to the old. The headphone itself has more bass and that is nice but i find the real winner to be the new mixamp pro. I'm pretty sure they use a higher quality dac than all the other mixamps as i've gotten a new pair for christmas every year. I plugged in my older a40's a30's my d2000's and 598's and all of them sounded more full and detailed then they did before. Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too.




Maybe it has a higher quality DAC (usually reveals itself by having better detail resolution), but your description sounds like it might be a higher-powered amp in the new Mixamp. Yours is the first FAVORABLE comparison I've read vs the older Mixamps so far (not much difference either way though, really), so that's interesting. "More bass... " "more full and detailed..." "Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too [more game/chat volume headroom perhaps?]" all sound favorable to a more powerful, clean amp. If you get a new one every year, would you perhaps bestow your old ones to another head-fi'er?

@Rebel,
LMAO man, I'm tempted to try that with my E5...


----------



## ronswanson

doctacosmos said:


> Wondering if anyone has tried the he-500 with dolby headphone. I plan on getting these headphones no matter what for music. Won't matter much if they don't have good accurate imaging or soundstage because i find the 2013 a40 bundle to be exceptional compared to the old. The headphone itself has more bass and that is nice but i find the real winner to be the new mixamp pro. I'm pretty sure they use a higher quality dac than all the other mixamps as i've gotten a new pair for christmas every year. I plugged in my older a40's a30's my d2000's and 598's and all of them sounded more full and detailed then they did before. Voices for chat are CRAZY clearer too.




Which EQ setting are you using on the 2013 mix amp? Or is the improvement heard even on Core Mode (No EQ settings applied)?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i believe i was using the top left eq setting.  I borrowed my friends for a night.  Mine won't be here till Christmas.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I did try both the old a40 and the new a40 with out eqing and the new a40 definitely has more bass.  The old one did not gain any without the presets.  I don't know if the eq-ing is done digital or analog.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> i believe i was using the top left eq setting.  I borrowed my friends for a night.  Mine won't be here till Christmas.


 
  I think that's the pro mode for FPS, which I assume reduces the bass some to highlight things like footsteps.  That might also be why voices sounded clearer?  idk
   
  speaking of the mixamp, I wish Astro would hurry up and release the standalone version.  I'm getting impatient and would rather not buy an a40 or a30 bundle.
   
  Also, it looks like there will be an Amazon lightning deal on the DPX21 bundle later today.  It looks like it includes the DSS1.  So if that drops to a cheap enough price, I'll be tempted to grab that instead of the mixamp.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

voice clarity was clearer on both headphones in every eq setting. maybe it's just the cable...who knows


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That Monoprice headset with the dolby headphone amp is out. Someone needs to get it quickly.


----------



## ronswanson

Has anyone seen these?
   
Sharkoon X-Tatic SR Gaming Headset with Dolby Headphone Technology for XBOX 360/PS3/PC
   
  It says it has Dolby Headphone.  For $99 it's more than the monoprice ones, but could be another cheaper alternative to the mixamp.  It has a [size=small]3.5mm jack too.[/size]


----------



## ronswanson

that monoprice set is on Amazon too.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Digital-Amplified-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00AA3R3YI
   
  I think I'll wait for the review from you guy's before I jump on it though.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> that monoprice set is on Amazon too.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Digital-Amplified-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00AA3R3YI
> 
> I think I'll wait for the review from you guy's before I jump on it though.


 
   
  Dang, I could have saved on shipping  Oh well, it will be here wednesday 
   
  -Erik


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





rebel975 said:


> I used to use the HE-500's with a mixamp. MLE is right- they're not the best for competitive gaming, but their bass and overall SQ made up for it IMO. I even used a nice Audio Technica mic and a microphone preamp with the Mixamp.


 
  so jelly 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nice! Lol. Only on head-fi, lol.


 
  and seriously xD 
   
  I'm so envious of your FPS dudes... not really though I like mah Rpgs and Racers... engines sound pretty bad out of hte Dt 880 , and I can hear them suckers creeping behind me now from SO much farther away ^^


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> Has anyone seen these?
> 
> Sharkoon X-Tatic SR Gaming Headset with Dolby Headphone Technology for XBOX 360/PS3/PC
> 
> It says it has Dolby Headphone.  For $99 it's more than the monoprice ones, but could be another cheaper alternative to the mixamp.  It has a [size=small]3.5mm jack too.[/size]


 

 I've had the old Sharkoon and they were HISSY AS HELL!
   
  I'd honestly stay clear of those headsets.


----------



## ronswanson

naingolann said:


> I've had the old Sharkoon and they were HISSY AS HELL!
> 
> I'd honestly stay clear of those headsets.




Good to know. Thanks. 

Hopefully burritoboy's luck with the monoprice processor is better.


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> so jelly
> and seriously xD
> 
> I'm so envious of your FPS dudes... not really though I like mah Rpgs and Racers... engines sound pretty bad out of hte Dt 880 , and I can hear them suckers creeping behind me now from SO much farther away ^^




I crave a good Racer every now and then, I used to play SW Podracing, San Francisco RUSH 2049, Re-Volt, and Burnout 3 *A LOT* back in the day, but nothing has rekindled the craving for a while. I honestly don't know what's good for the 360, I haven't looked. Realistic driving sims usually don't hold my interest for long, maybe I prefer to play in a departure from real life in general. I'm always ready for a good RPG, but after a while I get very aware that Im just playing by myself. Multiplayer games really liven up the game experience for me, but MMO's have yet to actually translate the RPG experience for me. Though a few good/great RPGs pop up every now and then, my perception is that it is at nowhere near the level of PS2/Dreamcast era, and we are now in the Age of FPS. 

I kinda want the new SSX snowboarding game, now that I think of past cravings...


----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> so jelly


 
   
   
  It was really easy to do. I just repurposed the headband that came with the mic to make a round shape that would fit over an earpad, and used a bit of shrink wrap tubing to make it look clean.
   

   
   
   
   
  And this is what I use currently:
   

   
   
   
  It's a headband of a normal xbox mic glued on to the ear support mounting system of a bluetooth xbox mic. Not included in the picture is the earpiece from the normal mic. I glued that on to effectively have a normal xbox mic, but wireless (and comfortable!- the standard wireless mic was very uncomfortable for me). I can even rotate the mic relative to the headband still.


----------



## Evshrug

Huh, maybe I can try that loop-de-loo method you used with the headband on the cable of my Platronics wired cellphone earpiece. It has a little boom extension as well. I'm always looking for ways to improve my mic setup, because I generally have to speak very quietly.


----------



## Rebel975

I could just give you the mic in that picture if you want. I could even give you the preamp (which is necessary to have enough sensitivity).
   
  It's an Audio Technica Pro 8HEx mic and an Art Tube MP preamp. I should also mention that I soldered a power switch on to the power cord of the preamp (lolconvenience).
   
  I'd just need $5-10 for shipping. PM me if interested.


----------



## Youcan1

I'm new to this whole scene and I thought I would ask the masters a question. How would  standard stereo headphones sound with a direct connection to the PS3? I don't really care about the simulated surround processing. I figured I would pick up either the Superlux 681 or the Takstar Monitor 2050 and throw on an adapter cable, maybe with a cheap amp for volume control. I don't really care about chat either, I just want a setup for late night/early morning playing so that I don't disturb my neighbors. Anybody think this would sound decent, or should I just try a gaming headphone like the Monoprice or one of the Turtle Beaches? I'd like to come in at under $100 when all is said and done. I'll also be using the headphones for music too, whether that makes a huge difference or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A cheap Fiio E5 or E6, an Playstation composite cable which you probably have laying around (or component, though unnecessary), and female RCA to 3.5mm cable. Done this and it sounds fine, though basic stereo gaming sucks, IMHO.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I got myself a pair of DT770 Limited 88th anniversary Edition 32 Ohm, and I am positively surprised how good they are, especially on soundstage. Not astronomically surprised there because MLE already told us about it in his reviews about the other DT770s models but still. Very good for a closed headphone and very good positioning. 

It's less sibilant than the other models I heard, less sibilant than DT990, DT880, T90s "zing", though it comes with 
pleather and pleather contributes a bit to it.

Highs are therefore quite smooth for a Beyer, the mids are finer and more natural than the DT990 600. Somehow I can relate to the headfonia review even when I stay away from them mostly when they hype a headphone to the moon and back and then to the sun until it becomes a supernova.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





youcan1 said:


> I'm new to this whole scene and I thought I would ask the masters a question. How would  standard stereo headphones sound with a direct connection to the PS3? I don't really care about the simulated surround processing. I figured I would pick up either the Superlux 681 or the Takstar Monitor 2050 and throw on an adapter cable, maybe with a cheap amp for volume control. I don't really care about chat either, I just want a setup for late night/early morning playing so that I don't disturb my neighbors. Anybody think this would sound decent, or should I just try a gaming headphone like the Monoprice or one of the Turtle Beaches? I'd like to come in at under $100 when all is said and done. I'll also be using the headphones for music too, whether that makes a huge difference or not.


 
   
  My Monoprice headset is due today, at which time I'll let you know my opinion in regards with the other headsets/amps I've tried. Keep in mind I don't have nearly as many tests under my belt as MLE.
   
  Now on to your situation, I would suggest you not go with a basic stereo setup, you won't have much of an upgrade route later, and you will get more out of a used mixamp and CHEAP headphone (KSC perhaps?) and you would be just a tad over budget to start with. Then save up and upgrade the headphones when you can.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Youcan1

mad lust envy said:


> A cheap Fiio E5 or E6, an Playstation composite cable which you probably have laying around (or component, though unnecessary), and female RCA to 3.5mm cable. Done this and it sounds fine, though basic stereo gaming sucks, IMHO.


 
  That's exactly what I was planning on doing, good to know that it works well enough. I have a good surround setup that I will use most of the time anyway, but I have to crank it way down in the late hours and with a setup like this I wouldn't have to worry about it. I actually listened to a Turtle Beach demo unit way back, I could definitely hear the directional sounds but it wasn't really all that to me. I don't really play competitive shooting games, so having some kind of a directional advantage isn't a huge deal.
   
   


> My Monoprice headset is due today, at which time I'll let you know my opinion in regards with the other headsets/amps I've tried. Keep in mind I don't have nearly as many tests under my belt as MLE.
> 
> Now on to your situation, I would suggest you not go with a basic stereo setup, you won't have much of an upgrade route later, and you will get more out of a used mixamp and CHEAP headphone (KSC perhaps?) and you would be just a tad over budget to start with. Then save up and upgrade the headphones when you can.


 
   
  I actually just ordered the KSC75 for phone and laptop use, so I might have to test it out on the console. I'm not really used to headphone gaming so I wanted to try it this way, if I like it I'll definitely consider spending more on an upgrade, no sense blowing a lot of cash on something I don't care for. I wanted to get one of those other headphones(probably the Takstar), because I also want something that sounds good with music. I just use IEMs and figured I should probably upgrade. I figure that the gaming headsets probably won't sound that great as far as music is concerned, but if that Monoprice sounds great I may have to put it on order, especially since it includes everything at a pretty good price.
   
  Thanks for the responses guys.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> My Monoprice headset is due today, at which time I'll let you know my opinion in regards with the other headsets/amps I've tried. Keep in mind I don't have nearly as many tests under my belt as MLE.
> 
> Now on to your situation, I would suggest you not go with a basic stereo setup, you won't have much of an upgrade route later, and you will get more out of a used mixamp and CHEAP headphone (KSC perhaps?) and you would be just a tad over budget to start with. Then save up and upgrade the headphones when you can.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Looking forward to your opinions on it!
  Quote: 





youcan1 said:


> That's exactly what I was planning on doing, good to know that it works well enough. I have a good surround setup that I will use most of the time anyway, but I have to crank it way down in the late hours and with a setup like this I wouldn't have to worry about it. I actually listened to a Turtle Beach demo unit way back, I could definitely hear the directional sounds but it wasn't really all that to me. I don't really play competitive shooting games, so having some kind of a directional advantage isn't a huge deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You'll love the KSC75, trust me. Those little things will blow your mind!


----------



## DoctaCosmos

@youcan1 try these, you won't be disappointed for gaming or music more than likely ..
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354125460&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live


----------



## ronswanson

Which has better soundstage, the CAL! or KSC75?


----------



## Fa11ou7

Just read this interesting article about binaural beats tweaked to improve gaming skills and emotional state. I guess it requires you to listen to the track for about 15 minutes focusing solely on the music. This would be difficult for me to do and not fall asleep but I know a lot of you guys listen to your music this way.
  http://kotaku.com/5963533/this-drug-is-legal-its-digital-and-its-supposed-to-improve-how-you-game-i-put-it-to-the-test


----------



## Youcan1

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> @youcan1 try these, you won't be disappointed for gaming or music more than likely ..
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354125460&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live


 
  I checked it out. It looks like a good set, though based on what I read an open headphone would be better for my tastes. Plus I want a set with 50mm drivers. These would probably be better than the Superlux 681, but I'm still curious about that Takstar set, which I can get for about the same price as the CAL.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

youcan1 said:


> That's exactly what I was planning on doing, good to know that it works well enough. I have a good surround setup that I will use most of the time anyway, but I have to crank it way down in the late hours and with a setup like this I wouldn't have to worry about it. I actually listened to a Turtle Beach demo unit way back, I could definitely hear the directional sounds but it wasn't really all that to me. I don't really play competitive shooting games, so having some kind of a directional advantage isn't a huge deal.




No wonder you dont want virtual surround. That Turtle Beach demo is absolutely WORTHLESS. Trust me, do not take that into account at all. Trust me, its worthwhile getting a virtual surround amp first, and something cheap like the KSC75 first.

Also most good headphones havs 40mm drivers. Driver size does not equal quality.


----------



## Jay 23

whats so special about those cheap koss headphones?
   
  and where can i purchase Astro mixamp pro? dont see it on the site


----------



## chicolom

I see the CALs are back down to $65 on amazon.  That's a very good price an about as low as they ever go (most of the time they stay at $99)


----------



## Youcan1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No wonder you dont want virtual surround. That Turtle Beach demo is absolutely WORTHLESS. Trust me, do not take that into account at all. Trust me, its worthwhile getting a virtual surround amp first, and something cheap like the KSC75 first.
> Also most good headphones havs 40mm drivers. Driver size does not equal quality.


 
  True that having larger drivers doesn't mean it will automatically sound better, but a lot of the top of the line headphones that I've seen have 50mm or larger drivers(even a lot of the highly rated cheap phones like the Monoprice DJ and Superlux phones). I'm certainly not against getting smaller driver headphones if the quality is better. I can see the appeal of directional audio and I would consider getting an amp if I really like the regular stereo setup. I would think better headphones would benefit from the surround processing a lot more than a cheap clip-on set. Hopefully more reviews of the Monoprice pop up soon. I'm kind of skeptical of the actual headphones themselves, they have smaller drivers than the Monorice DJ set and I kind of get the feeling that Monoprice cut corners on the headset itself to include all of the extra goodies.  
   
  Edit - Nevermind all that, I just caved and bought the Monoprice 7.1 headset. Hopefully I can cancel the splitter cable I ordered since I won't have any use for it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





youcan1 said:


> True that having larger drivers doesn't mean it will automatically sound better, but a lot of the top of the line headphones that I've seen have 50mm or larger drivers(even a lot of the highly rated cheap phones like the Monoprice DJ and Superlux phones). I'm certainly not against getting smaller driver headphones if the quality is better. I can see the appeal of directional audio and I would consider getting an amp if I really like the regular stereo setup. I would think better headphones would benefit from the surround processing a lot more than a cheap clip-on set. Hopefully more reviews of the Monoprice pop up soon. I'm kind of skeptical of the actual headphones themselves, they have smaller drivers than the Monorice DJ set and I kind of get the feeling that Monoprice cut corners on the headset itself to include all of the extra goodies.
> 
> Edit - Nevermind all that, I just caved and bought the Monoprice 7.1 headset. Hopefully I can cancel the splitter cable I ordered since I won't have any use for it.


 
  I still have a LOT of testing to do. But one MAJOR disadvantage so far is that when talking on xbox live, I get a TON of feedback.
   
  As far as game SQ, if the Astro mixamp is a 10, this is probably an ~8.5 when set on the music setting. When on default setting, it seems VERY muddy, and even on the music setting there is slight muddiness and the rear cues seem lacking. These will most likely be getting returned due to the Xbox Live feedback..
   
  More tomorrow, we have a 1 week old baby that needs tending to.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Youcan1

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I still have a LOT of testing to do. But one MAJOR disadvantage so far is that when talking on xbox live, I get a TON of feedback.
> 
> As far as game SQ, if the Astro mixamp is a 10, this is probably an ~8.5 when set on the music setting. When on default setting, it seems VERY muddy, and even on the music setting there is slight muddiness and the rear cues seem lacking. These will most likely be getting returned due to the Xbox Live feedback..
> 
> ...


 
   
  This review says it compares favorably with other headsets:
http://www.electronista.com/reviews/monoprice-7.1-wired-gaming-headset.html 
  It also mentions some problems with Xbox Live chat and a sensitive mic, which isn't a problem for me since I don't even own the 360 anymore, just PS3. Considering the Astro set costs more than double what this set costs I would assume it would sound a little better.


----------



## ruuku

I'd be really interested to hear how it compares to the Tritton headsets/decoders... as it resembles that headset more than any other... inline remote with the same 7-pin plug, microphone molding, ect... and at least in the above linked review, came across the same microphone/ground hiss that my 5.1s suffered from.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again driver size has nothing to do with audio fidelity. Plenty of high end headphones with 40mm drivers. If youre not spending hundreds, upon hundreds of dollars, driver size is the last thing you need to be worried about.


----------



## clem84

Hey everyone. I read the entire first post of this thread which was very informative, thank you MLE. I've made my decision as to what headphones I was going to get (he-400), but I'm not sure which virtual surround device is right for me. They all seem to have pretty big cons. I'm looking for something that sounds great above all else, and wired if possible. Most of the devices don't seem to decode DTS natively. The Beyerdynamic seems to have everything but yeah, little pricy.
   
  What I'm wondering is, if I don't mind paying a little extra and getting a receiver (I have to get a new receiver for my home theater anyway), would an AV receiver that supports virtual surround do a decent job? Which would produce the best sound quality? One of the virtual surround device listed at the beginning of this thread like the Astro mixamp pro, or a Yamaha/Harman Kardon receiver? Would love to hear opinions from those who have tried both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Quite sure an older HK receiver with Dolby Headphone would suit the HE400 best. The new HK receivers dont have DH, but use HK's own virtual surround which I have no idea what they do.

The HE400 is pretty good for immersive gaming, but arent the best for competitive. Just keep that in mind.


----------



## clem84

Well I was looking for a pair of headphones that was good for both but, mainly for sound quality. I very rarely play online.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE400 fits that purpose.


----------



## burritoboy9984

The review that someone linked to above said there were problems with certain xbox controllers (if this is the case, I'll be keeping it and for newbies this would be an awesome way to get into the world of DH, with some upgradability). I will try a couple of different controllers tomorrow when I am messing with it more and see if that helps or not. Anything you guys want to know/see about the headset itself?
   
  -Erik


----------



## clem84

I noticed that in your guide you gave a few 9 to different headphones for "fun". The one 10 you gave is for a discontinued model. So among those 9s, if you had to pick only one as the most immersive pair of headphones, which would it be?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quite sure an older HK receiver with Dolby Headphone would suit the HE400 best. The new HK receivers dont have DH, but use HK's own virtual surround which I have no idea what they do.
> The HE400 is pretty good for immersive gaming, but arent the best for competitive. Just keep that in mind.


 
  If your talking about Harman Kardon "Logic 7 processing" it appear to be something that takes 2-channels and can expand it to (I think) a 7.1 surround sound.
  So maybe something like the old Dolby Surround, but without the multi channel encoding that Dolby Surround uses.
  It started off as something Harman/kardon started off using in their car audio.
  At least that's all the info i've been able to find.


----------



## ronswanson

burritoboy9984 said:


> The review that someone linked to above said there were problems with certain xbox controllers (if this is the case, I'll be keeping it and for newbies this would be an awesome way to get into the world of DH, with some upgradability). I will try a couple of different controllers tomorrow when I am messing with it more and see if that helps or not. Anything you guys want to know/see about the headset itself?
> 
> -Erik




Other than the controller feedback, do you hear any hiss or buzzing?

 Can you test it on a ps3 too?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If your talking about Harman Kardon "Logic 7 processing" it appear to be something that takes 2-channels and can expand it to (I think) a 7.1 surround sound.
> So maybe something like the old Dolby Surround, but without the multi channel encoding that Dolby Surround uses.
> It started off as something Harman/kardon started off using in their car audio.
> At least that's all the info i've been able to find.


 
  Nah, he's talking about real Dolby Headphone. The last line of their receivers that HK had licensed Dolby Headphone were the AVR*54 series of receivers.I have the AVR247 which is the *54's previous years model and it does in fact have DH. The benefit of getting these is that they will decode DTS tracks and convert them to DH with no issue whatsoever. They also push a lot of power out to speakers too.


----------



## Evshrug

clem84 said:


> Hey everyone. I read the entire first post of this thread which was very informative, thank you MLE. I've made my decision as to what headphones I was going to get (he-400), but I'm not sure which virtual surround device is right for me. They all seem to have pretty big cons. I'm looking for something that sounds great above all else, and wired if possible. Most of the devices don't seem to decode DTS natively. The Beyerdynamic seems to have everything but yeah, little pricy.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, if I don't mind paying a little extra and getting a receiver (I have to get a new receiver for my home theater anyway), would an AV receiver that supports virtual surround do a decent job? Which would produce the best sound quality? One of the virtual surround device listed at the beginning of this thread like the Astro mixamp pro, or a Yamaha/Harman Kardon receiver? Would love to hear opinions from those who have tried both.




A receiver is a totally valid choice. You get a high-current headphone amp, lots of power for speakers, Dolby 5.1 and DTS surround codec support (and more variants of those), bass and treble equalizers, remote-control, and, of course, radio reception! That's where receivers got their name from anyway, receiving radio. A good value you can live with and add to. I mean, so long as we're not talking about the cheapo receivers that come as part of a HTIB kit (home theater in a box; you know, the kind that usually come with a built-in DVD or Blu-Ray player, 5 cheap and small bookshelf speakers, and mud-slinging flabby subwoofers?). I bet most manufacturers have their own headphone surround processing now. I can't tell you for sure if that's because they didn't want to pay licenses for Dolby Headphone anymore, or if they thought they could do better. Since they already pay for Dolby and DTS decoding for the speakers... I think there's something more to it than just dropping DH because of overhead cost. I wonder what Denon uses, I see their refurbished receivers for a nice price all the time.

PurpleAngel and I have Yamaha receivers, and their Silent Cinema virtual surround for headphones is respectable. There certainly are a lot of options for tailoring the sound. If I didn't have to have a discreet setup in my bedroom, I would've just stuck with mine, but as it happens I personally prefer my Creative Recon3D USB instead of Silent Cinema because it "echos" less to my ears, but both have effects that "work." I will note that while my AKG Q701s were/are driven great by the receiver, the Recon3D's built-in amp had to be nearly maxed out. Adding a discreet amp (a tube amp) has really filled in the sound from the Recon3D, but you wouldn't have to buy an extra thing for the Receiver (or with easy to drive headphones).


----------



## zaggynl

Hi, I'm looking for a soundcard replacement or amp/dac advice for the Sennheiser HD650 headphones.
As it has 300Ohm impedance I will need a decent separate amp or should replace my soundcard.

I'm currently using the following setup:
PC with Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer soundcard and Sennheiser HD239 headphones with Antlion Modmic.
I have a 5.1 surround set connected to my soundcard at the moment and my headset connects into the surround set, the mic plugs directly into the back into the soundcard.
Sound is good, mic is okay, can't up volume with "mic +20dB Boost" on mic as white noise will creep in.

I've read about a number of soundcards and amps but I'm not sure what to pick.

Have had issues with the Creative drivers, currently using the Daniel_k drivers and they seem okay.
Reading up on the Xonar Essence drivers they seem to have gone the same way.
I have zero experience with amps or seperate dacs.
Location: The Netherlands, Europe.


edit:spelling.


----------



## Evshrug

Zaggyni,

To be honest, it sounds like you already know more than most of the people here. This is more of a "headphone gaming guide" than a guide or thread about amps/soundcards. You'll probably get a more complete response at Nameless' PC gaming thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/593050

People who do have a good sense about soundcards and DACs do occasionally come by this thread, but like I said, NamelessPFG's thread is a more appropriate place to ask.

As a general piece of advice, I'd suggest getting a separate amp to depend on rather than a do-all soundcard. There are a number of reasons for this, such as power, versatility, and noise filtering, but the biggest is that the amp will always be useful, but computer hardware often changes or burns out.


----------



## zaggynl

evshrug said:


> Zaggyni,
> To be honest, it sounds like you already know more than most of the people here. This is more of a "headphone gaming guide" than a guide or thread about amps/soundcards. You'll probably get a more complete response at Nameless' PC gaming thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/newestpost/593050
> People who do have a good sense about soundcards and DACs do occasionally come by this thread, but like I said, NamelessPFG's thread is a more appropriate place to ask.
> As a general piece of advice, I'd suggest getting a separate amp to depend on rather than a do-all soundcard. There are a number of reasons for this, such as power, versatility, and noise filtering, but the biggest is that the amp will always be useful, but computer hardware often changes or burns out.




Thanks for the advice, I'll post over at the suggested topic!


----------



## Evshrug

zaggynl said:


> Thanks for the advice, I'll post over at the suggested topic!



No problem, hope I didn't sound unfriendly... I just wanted you to know there's a thread focused on your type of question.


----------



## zaggynl

evshrug said:


> No problem, hope I didn't sound unfriendly... I just wanted you to know there's a thread focused on your type of question.




Not at all, I'm happy to get any pointers at all!


----------



## Youcan1

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> The review that someone linked to above said there were problems with certain xbox controllers (if this is the case, I'll be keeping it and for newbies this would be an awesome way to get into the world of DH, with some upgradability). I will try a couple of different controllers tomorrow when I am messing with it more and see if that helps or not. Anything you guys want to know/see about the headset itself?
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Have you listened to any music on it? How is the sound of just the headset itself without the processing unit?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> As far as game SQ, if the Astro mixamp is a 10, this is probably an ~8.5 when set on the music setting. When on default setting, it seems VERY muddy, and even on the music setting there is slight muddiness and the rear cues seem lacking. These will most likely be getting returned due to the Xbox Live feedback..


 
   
  I don't know why the monoprice decoder would be muddy.  I mean, if it's using the same dobly headphone algorithm as everything else it should nearly the same.  The turtle Beach DSS basically sounds identical to the mixamp apart from noise floor differences, and that is what I would expect from the monoprice decoder.  I don't think the amp hardware could screw up the sound enough to make it "VERY muddy", so perhaps it has some extra processing enabled ontop of the DH that needs to be disabled (?).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> Other than the controller feedback, do you hear any hiss or buzzing?
> Can you test it on a ps3 too?


 
   
  I never use my ps3, hasn't been hooked up in ages, don't think I have any games to test with, sorry.
   
  Quote: 





youcan1 said:


> Have you listened to any music on it? How is the sound of just the headset itself without the processing unit?


 
   
  I'm not really a music person, but for gaming they did alright when paired with the mixamp, surprisingly open soundstage for a closed headset. I currently only have a PC360 and AD700 to compare to, so I don't find a comparison to be fair.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I don't know why the monoprice decoder would be muddy.  I mean, if it's using the same dobly headphone algorithm as everything else it should nearly the same.  The turtle Beach DSS basically sounds identical to the mixamp apart from noise floor differences, and that is what I would expect from the monoprice decoder.  I don't think the amp hardware could screw up the sound enough to make it "VERY muddy", so perhaps it has some extra processing enabled ontop of the DH that needs to be disabled (?).


 
   
  It sounded MUCH cleaner on music mode. Regardless, the rears still seemed majorly lacking (even when paired with the AD700's or PC360's). When I switched the switch from PC -> AMP on the inline controller, I begun to notice a TON of static, even when the volume was all the way down on every adjustment, the static was still present. But it did seem like the AMP setting helped out positioning slightly, but again, it was hard to tell due to the static. When switching back and forth with the mixamp, you can tell how much more open and precise everything sounds.
   
  Build quality is on par with other Monoprice items, not the best, but pretty darn good. They give you a TON of cables and goodies. You should be able to hook this up to anything.
   
  Due to my frustration with the constant static, I hit up Monoprice chat, and they say it might be defective. So they are RMA'ing it, and I'll update you guys when I get the new one in to see if I am plagued by the same problems.
   
  As of now, if you don't plan on using this to chat with, I think this is still an excellent deal, that provides upgradability in the future. Who knows, maybe my unit is all jacked up, and I'll be blown away by the replacement, time will tell.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Gallade475

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> I am playing around with the Philips Fidelio X1 since a few days and I am pleasantly surprised
> - it's very very comfortable, it's number 2 for me behind HD 800 - I can't say though that the HD 800 is really better in that regard - I can wear the X1 for hours and hours and not want to take them off
> - the material is of high quality, the whole build is well designed and crafted - kudos to Philips
> - soundstage isn't HD 800 (I don't think headphones need to be as in this case it's awesome for gaming) like but it's pretty good nonetheless and especially important: it's spacious with great positioning - rear channels are on spot.
> ...


 
  how much and what parts of the x1 are plastic
   
  And can someone take one for the team and test the dss2?


----------



## Youcan1

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I'm not really a music person, but for gaming they did alright when paired with the mixamp, surprisingly open soundstage for a closed headset. I currently only have a PC360 and AD700 to compare to, so I don't find a comparison to be fair.
> 
> 
> As of now, if you don't plan on using this to chat with, I think this is still an excellent deal, that provides upgradability in the future. Who knows, maybe my unit is all jacked up, and I'll be blown away by the replacement, time will tell.
> ...


 
  I hope so. My order is on the way along with my Koss KSC75, so I'll give both sets a shot with the decoder and see how they work. I still think I might order the Technical Pro HPT990/Takstar 2050 just to see how all these different types of headphones sound for myself. Thanks again for the info.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno about you guys, but to make the KSC75 sound better, bend the metal clips inward so has to put the drivers closer to your ears. Last one I bought was quite separated from my ears, losing some SQ. I bent in (carefully), so it'd be a tighter fit.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dunno about you guys, but to make the KSC75 sound better, bend the metal clips inward so has to put the drivers closer to your ears. Last one I bought was quite separated from my ears, losing some SQ. I bent in (carefully), so it'd be a tighter fit.


 
   
  Yep, I do that all the time.


----------



## Hente

If I want to get full efficiency from the Mixamp, will I need to have a motherboard with optical out?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hente said:


> If I want to get full efficiency from the Mixamp, will I need to have a motherboard with optical out?


 
  To full use surround sound with the Mix-amp. and a motherboard, the motherboard need to have optical output and also DDL (Dolby Digital live).
  Or just get an Asus Xonar DG ($27, PCI) or DGX ($39.99, PCI-E) sound card, then you would not even need to use the Mix-amp.
  The Xonar DG/DGX comes with a half-way decent headphone amplifier and Dolby Headphone 5.1 surround sound.


----------



## LB Felipe

[size=10pt]Is AKG Q 701 discontinued?[/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Woah, head-fi mobile?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Woah, head-fi mobile?


 
   
  Ya, saw that yesterday when trying to post from phone, lol. Decided to go on computer instead 
   
  -Erik


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Woah, head-fi mobile?


 
  yeah, it works pretty well!


----------



## Impulse

Yeah, I'm generally not a fan of dumbed down mobile website formats, specially when they use an iOS-esque UI... I have a phone with a large enough high resolution screen, it seems unnecessary to break consistency. 

Typically I'd just switch back to desktop view or force it from within my browser, but for Head Fi it does seem to work rather well so I've left it as is. The whole scrolling down to the most recent posts on your subs thing seems to work much quicker in mobile view than on desktop view which always kinda bogged down the phone browser even on Wifi.


----------



## chicolom

I like the mobile version.  I've used it on avs forum before, so I'm glad they brought it here.  When I'm on my phone I just want to see the info quickly and don't like having to constantly pinch and resize to find the latest posts.
   
  Plus sometimes when you click to post and reply with a phone, the page goes berserk when trying to open and resize the text editor box.


----------



## clem84

What is the value of DTS for gaming? Many of the surround sound device don't support DTS but if it's only used for movies, that's something I can live it. So, is it a big deal?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





clem84 said:


> What is the value of DTS for gaming? Many of the surround sound device don't support DTS but if it's only used for movies, that's something I can live it. So, is it a big deal?


 
  From what I understand, Microsoft pushes for Dolby on the xBox games, which I'm guessing is going to spill over into PC games (how much?), so I'm guessing there is little support for DTS.
  Some games come with an audio setting for "Home Theater", that might benefit DTS (maybe).
  Blu-ray movies seem to favor DTS audio.
   
  What is your current audio setting?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> From what I understand, Microsoft pushes for Dolby on the xBox games, which I'm guessing is going to spill over into PC games (how much?), so I'm guessing there is little support for DTS.
> Some games come with an audio setting for "Home Theater", that might benefit DTS (maybe).
> Blu-ray movies seem to favor DTS audio.


 
   
  Nah, it hasn't really spilled over into PC games, at least not in the usual sense. The reason I wrote my guide in the first place is that PC game audio works very, very differently from consoles, even with more modern games that use software mixing.
   
  I've actually seen a few games with DTS logos prominently featured on the startup screens, but this has no bearing on the actual audio output. Chances are the audio recordings used by the game may be compressed with DTS and decoded on-the-fly, but there certainly isn't an option to bitstream them as DTS with the PC versions. The Xbox 360 would probably just re-encode them to Dolby Digital on-the-fly, since it (like the original Xbox before it) effectively has Dolby Digital Live support, whereas not all PCs with integrated audio codecs do.
   
  As for DTS support in general, it's not that widely adopted in games as an output format, and I don't see that changing any time soon, especially now that HDMI is picking up steam and allows for 8 channels of LPCM, no lossy codecs needed. But as the old saying goes, "It's better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it."


----------



## Ztrains

So I'm looking to upgrade from my Samson SR850's to somthing a little better.  I play all kinds of different games on xbox ranging from Halo 4 to Skyrim to Castle Crashers to Forza but if I had to pick I guess I would say I would be more for the "fun" category like a bigger soundstage and immersion and whatnot, and I might be building a PC soon so I need good headphones for that too.  So far all I've really found is the Sennheiser 518's close to my price range but I might be willing to go higher.  If you could suggest a couple pair of headphones that would be great! (I really like the look of the sennheiser's like the 518 with the pads and such)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lb felipe said:


> [SIZE=10pt]Is AKG Q 701 discontinued?[/SIZE]




I see plenty on Amazon for cheap prices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ztrains said:


> So I'm looking to upgrade from my Samson SR850's to somthing a little better.  I play all kinds of different games on xbox ranging from Halo 4 to Skyrim to Castle Crashers to Forza but if I had to pick I guess I would say I would be more for the "fun" category like a bigger soundstage and immersion and whatnot, and I might be building a PC soon so I need good headphones for that too.  So far all I've really found is the Sennheiser 518's close to my price range but I might be willing to go higher.  If you could suggest a couple pair of headphones that would be great! (I really like the look of the sennheiser's like the 518 with the pads and such)


 
  Used Sennheiser HD558 on Amazon.


----------



## Ztrains

Wow, I didn't even think of buying used...thanks for the tip!


----------



## Impulse

A lot of the used 558 on Amazon are often in like new conditions too, I've heard of people buying it used for close to $100 and getting a pair that still has that new plastic injection smell, I'm guessing it's due to returns and such.


----------



## taichicali

Hello Everyone - 
   
  I have a question about which headphones to buy for movies and xbox 360 (newest version) gaming.  It is hard to find a good pair of headphones with the built in mic, and I have ruled out the Triton Warheads as it seems the sq would not be very good.  The Astro A50's seem like they might be better, but I'm guessing I could get a lot better sound with that one extra cable for some wired headphones.
   
  My budget is around $300 
  I have a Pioneer VSX 1022 receiver
  TV is a Mits 65 737 - which DOES NOT have a 3.5mm jack
   
  I mostly want to watch blu ray movies on PS3, play Halo 4 on xbox 360, watch TV
   
  I want closed cans, over the ear so I don't wake up my wife (and new baby that will be here in Jan)
   
  I wanted to get the V-Moda Crossfade M100's
  http://v-moda.com/crossfade-m-100/  
   
  I have read the main part of this thread that had the recommendations, and I was considering the Ultrasone Pro 990S as well.
   
  My main problem is I have no idea how to properly set this up to where I can use a mic that will play nice with the xbox controller.  I know there is a company AntLion that makes a standalone mic that can be added to any headphones - but even on their website they say it is tricky to get it to work with the 360.  Can anyone point me to the specific product (s), adapters, wires etc that would allow me play XBOX 360 with any pair of headphones modded with an AntLion external mic?
   
  Also - would I need a mixamp?
   
  Thanks for any responses - I really appreciate it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





impulse said:


> ...getting a pair that still has that new plastic injection smell....


 
   
  Who doesn't love that smell!


----------



## LB Felipe

Thank you.
   
  I see but I have found this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/612416/akg-q701-quincy-jones-edition-is-killed
   
  B&H Photo Video delivers to my country. Amazon doesn't.
   
   


> This item has been discontinued by the manufacturer and is no longer available.


 
   
  If PurpleAngel will come back to Brazil, and if he will to São Paulo instead of Rio de Janeiro, I ask him to bring one for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (kidding)


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I just bought a PS3 and I'm in the market for a pair of headphones that meets both gaming and general entertainment purposes. 
   
After reading the original post and thinking about it for a while I've come to the conclusion that I want to try out the DT770 pros. I know that their base is overpowered for gaming but I'm thinking that if I par it up with the new mixAmp with equalizer functions that may balance things. Can anyone chime in and say whether that will be enough or not?
   
Also, I only want to buy one pair of headphones, so if they won't be the DT770s, I'll probably end up buying the Q701s. I don't really think I'll be doing a lot of competitive multiplayer in the PS3. Maybe on my PC but even then it probably won't be call of duty or any other similar game. I'm more into single-player games, and the multi-player titles I do play, tend to be more co-operative. 
   
  My budget is $300 if it helps (besides mixAmp, or other virtual sorround device)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds like a grand idea, really.


----------



## clem84

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> From what I understand, Microsoft pushes for Dolby on the xBox games, which I'm guessing is going to spill over into PC games (how much?), so I'm guessing there is little support for DTS.
> Some games come with an audio setting for "Home Theater", that might benefit DTS (maybe).
> Blu-ray movies seem to favor DTS audio.
> 
> What is your current audio setting?


 
  I don't have one. I'm currently in research mode to try to figure what I'll be getting. As of now, I'm leaning toward the Hifiman he-400 and the astro mixamp pro. Probably a new Yamaha receiver with Silent cinema further down the road. I was wondering if the fact that the Astro mixamp doesn't support DTS will prevent me from enjoying some games that might be in DTS.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





clem84 said:


> I don't have one. I'm currently in research mode to try to figure what I'll be getting. As of now, I'm leaning toward the Hifiman HE-400 and the Astro mix-amp pro. Probably a new Yamaha receiver with Silent cinema further down the road. I was wondering if the fact that the Astro mixamp doesn't support DTS will prevent me from enjoying some games that might be in DTS.


 
  I think Blu-ray movies are big on DTS and would assume games are not designed to work with  any special DTS features.
  Or is there a reason your looking into DTS that my brain does not understand?
  I do prefer Yamaha receiver because they all seem to come with Yamaha's headphone surround sound tech, Silent Cinema.
  Yamaha receivers should provide both Dolby and DTS features, maybe you should skip on getting an Astro Mix-amp.
   
  As your thinking of getting a Hifiman HE-400, maybe ask on the following thread about how well the HE-400 works plugged directly into receivers.
  Or what they might recommend.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-review


----------



## clem84

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I think Blu-ray movies are big on DTS and would assume games are not designed to work with  any special DTS features.
> Or is there a reason your looking into DTS that my brain does not understand?
> I do prefer Yamaha receiver because they all seem to come with Yamaha's headphone surround sound tech, Silent Cinema.
> Yamaha receivers should provide both Dolby and DTS features, maybe you should skip on getting an Astro Mix-amp.
> ...


 
  Even if the main reason I'm getting this setup is for games, having something that works well for movies also would have been nice. Thanks for the tip. I'll ask in that other thread.


----------



## chicolom

http://www.electronista.com/reviews/monoprice-7.1-wired-gaming-headset.html


----------



## taichicali

I posted last night, but I have distilled my question more, so as hopefully not to anger the masses as a noob who hasn't done his research (such as reading the fp, rtfm!, right?)
   
  Anyway - I am looking for headphones to watch movies on PS3 and play games with chat on the xbox 360.  The most elegant solution is either the Triton Warheads or the Astro A50's - but I know I am giving up sq for the wireless and integrated mic.
   
  Ideally I would get either:
  Crossfade M100
  Ultrasone Pro 900S
  HiFiMan HE 400
   
  and attach an antlion mic (http://www.modmic.com/collections/frontpage) and use that for chat.  Though, on the Antlion website they do not give a solution for xbox chat, and just point me to a gamestop forum where people discuss the problem.  It seems most of the solutions are geared towards using a PC headset that has a built in mic and converting that to use on xbox chat.  But, with this solution I have the headphone cable and the cable from the external antlion mic to account for.  
   
  I am really unfamiliar with all this stuff.  I have a pioneer vsx 1022 and a Mits 65 737 TV that does not have a headphone jack.
   
  Has anyone used a setup like above to play xbox 360 and watch movies via PS3?  What adapters and cables would I need?  If it gets so clunky and messy, I may just go with the Astro A50's, but I would rather not.
   
  How about ordering this from monoprice and using the cables/connectors that come with it to use with one of the above headphones? Would that work?
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=114&cp_id=11401&cs_id=1140103&p_id=9771&seq=1&format=2#description
   
  This is the other solution I was looking at, but I think it works for converting PC headsets, so wouldn't work with my setup?
  http://www.amazon.com/Headset-Buddy-Xbox-360-Adapter/dp/B006MHEPFG
   
   
  Thanks for reading.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I'm totally new here. My first post. Yipee. I just bought the Q701's new from Amazon. My concern is that I want to use these on PS3. I realize I can buy the Mixamp, but I just learned about LPCM. Uncompressed lossless. I have a phat PS3, so LPCM is my only option for noncompressed. I see that optical can only do 2 channel, while HDMI is cable of 7.1 192kHZ. So, it seems that I would need to get a reciever with Dolby Headphone, Pro Logic IIx, and that was capable of accepting this LPCM signal right? Why would I get these Audiophile grade headphones, only to listen to Dolby Digital? I just want to be able to get the best sound quality possible out of my PS3 while using these headphones. I've been on google for hours reading and reading. I need some help. Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

TaiChiCali,
What I do, is just use a cheap lapel mic (costing a dollar or two from China, MLE mentions one in his first post, I bought and have found acceptable one on Amazon with a "Neweer" brand name) and a cheap 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter to plug the mic into my Xbox 360 controller. Then, I set chat audio to play through the "speakers" (hit the guide button>settings>preferences>voice>"Play through Speakers" option), so I hear everything in my headphones and have an independent mic clipped to my shirt that doesn't pick up breathing  I have also had equivalent success with 2.5mm jack wired cellphone earpieces, like the Platronics MX210 that I just sort of stick onto my shirt collar with the boom mic pointing up.

Of your 3 headphones, I would personally be torn between the M-100 and HE 400. I've been following the M-100 thread, and of course read MLE's glowing impression of the HE's (with velour pads) since he got 'em. I used to have a pair or Crossfade LPs (still own them, they've GOT to be around somewhere!), they had better than average soundstage for a closed headphone, but a somewhat dark and rather bass-heavy sound signature. The M-100 from all accounts would be more balanced than the LPs, with a milder but still boosted bass and more treble brightness and extension, and better for gaming and all-around use (including portable), but it still is more of a "fun" headphone headphone rather than audiophile in signature. The HE400, I'm guessing, has the best sound quality of all the headphones you mentioned, while also having a more audiophile "flavor." It's not going to be something you can take around campus, though. It's your choice and your taste in the end, though. Personally, I chose to buy a used Q701 and use my Crossfade LPs for a portable, but since I can't find those I'll probably on stick with... Well, I game mostly with my Q701 now.

SoAmusing777,
Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!
I personally say Receivers have a great long-sighted value if you can physically fit them into your gaming space. You get a decent solid-state amp, hook ups for Hi-Fi speakers, a touch of EQ for your headphones, remote, input switcher so you can keep various systems hooked up to your TV, all the sound codecs you need (like DTS and Dolby Digital), an external DAC, an fm radio tuner, etc... To be honest, you will be hard pressed to hear a difference between HDMI and Optical (it's like slightly softer, I barely make it out with my Q701s), so either should be fine. Dolby Digital is nothing to sneeze at, but of course the receiver will (probably) understand most types of DTS signals too.

To explain one thing, after the receiver, uh, receives either a DTS or Dolby Digital signal from your console, it processes the signal inside the receiver's DAC, and if you have headphones plugged in it will then simulate surround sound using a processing algorithm like Dolby Headphone, or some other manufacturer's proprietary algorithm (like Yamaha's "Silent Cinema"). If you want the Dolby Headphone version of headphone surround in a receiver, you'll have to find an older model of Harman Kardon receiver, apparently. Newer versions have HK's own version of headphone surround... which I personally haven't heard if it's better or worse.

 I *have* a Yamaha receiver with Silent Cinema... It's pretty good, positioning is pretty accurate, though when you use DSPs it sounds like you're in a cave, of varying size. There is also Dolby Pro Logic (forget what version) as an alternative to Silent Cinema built-in... Positional accuracy isn't as good because it mixes surround from stereo audio (so that's like... 5/7.1-->stereo-->5.1-->virtual surround), but for all that it actually _sounds_ alright. Good for RPGs and situations where accuracy isn't so important, YMMV. I haven't decided if I best like a DSP with lowered effect strength (cuz you can do that), or "straight" mode with a surround signal.

Did this answer your questions?


----------



## DemonFox

Recently picked up the MMX 300 from Beyer... Tested them against the pc350/360/330 and yes they are expensive (I got them stupid cheap on eBay) but they smoke all three hands down!! Wide soundstage great positional accuracy and very easy to drive with my mix amp or iPhone. Plus the case they come with is amazing. And for music and movies it isn't close! Mad should add them to the comparison list. I'd love to see how they would stack up


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I've read this article ( http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones) explaining the ohm. "As a rule of thumb, a damping factor of 10 or more is desirable for the source to be able to drive the load with authority. For example, if the amp has an output impedance of 10 ohms, you want the headphones to be at least 100 ohms or more in order for the amp to make the headphone driver move accurately with the audio signal." also realized that the dt 770 pros 250 ohm version are available for a cheaper price on Amazon.com.
   
   
   
  Never mind, I think I just found the answer to plugging a mic for voice chat on PS3 using the search function in this site.
   
  Although I'm still trying to decide whether to go for the DT770 or just go ahead and get the 990s. I guess I'll probably pick up whichever model is cheaper at the time since I probably won't buy it for another two months or so.


----------



## PrinnyG

Can anyone recommend me a good gaming headphone that is closed, and is under $300?
  The Q701 really caught my eyes, so I'm looking for something similar of that, but closed. I really don't want to disturb people while I game, but I still want the immersive feel I get when i play music or game really loud.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im not too well versed on closed headphones, but the DT770s have large soundstages for closed cans, as well as the Denon D2000, D5000, and D7000 which are all discontinued but may find.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote:Originally Posted by *Roger de Ceiba* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  I just bought a PS3 and I'm in the market for a pair of headphones that meets both gaming and general entertainment purposes. 
   
After reading the original post and thinking about it for a while I've come to the conclusion that I want to try out the DT770 pros. I know that their base is overpowered for gaming but I'm thinking that if I par it up with the new mixAmp with equalizer functions that may balance things. Can anyone chime in and say whether that will be enough or not?
   
Also, I only want to buy one pair of headphones, so if they won't be the DT770s, I'll probably end up buying the Q701s. I don't really think I'll be doing a lot of competitive multiplayer in the PS3. Maybe on my PC but even then it probably won't be call of duty or any other similar game. I'm more into single-player games, and the multi-player titles I do play, tend to be more co-operative. 
   
  My budget is $300 if it helps (besides mixAmp, or other virtual surround device)

  A used receiver with HDMI might serve you better, as it would have both Dolby and DTS features, connect the the PS3 to the receiver using HDMI.
  HDMI can pass 8-channels (7.1) of PCM (uncompressed) digital audio 24-bit/192Khz.
  So you will get full Blu-ray audio from movies and possible 7.1 gaming audio.
  Plus you get something you can plug speakers into.
  Check your local Craigslist and check on eBay, I'm sure any A/V receiver made in the last 3 or 4 years would have HDMI.
   
  Optical is either 2-channel of PCM digital audio or  6-channel (5.1) of compressed digital audio (24-bit/48Khz).
  I like Yamahas because they come standard with headphone surround sound (Yamaha's Silent Cinema).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





taichicali said:


> I posted last night, but I have distilled my question more, so as hopefully not to anger the masses as a noob who hasn't done his research (such as reading the fp, rtfm!, right?)
> Anyway - I am looking for headphones to watch movies on PS3 and play games with chat on the xbox 360.  The most elegant solution is either the Triton Warheads or the Astro A50's - but I know I am giving up sq for the wireless and integrated mic.
> Ideally I would get either:
> Crossfade M100
> ...


 
  So, all you really need is two HDMI cables to connect the PS3 and Xbox to the Pionner.
  The Mod Mic. is analog 3.5mm, someone might make a 3.5mm to USB adapter, or just find a USB Mic.
  Then spend the rest of your cash on headphones.
   
  Might want to ask on the following thread if the HE-400 work wells plugged into receivers (like the Pioneer VSX 1022).
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/604583/hifiman-he-400-review/2655#post_8909694


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I'm totally new here. My first post. Yipee. I just bought the Q701's new from Amazon. My concern is that I want to use these on PS3. I realize I can buy the Mixamp, but I just learned about LPCM. Uncompressed lossless. I have a phat PS3, so LPCM is my only option for noncompressed. I see that optical can only do 2 channel, while HDMI is cable of 7.1 192kHZ. So, it seems that I would need to get a receiver with Dolby Headphone, Pro Logic IIx, and that was capable of accepting this LPCM signal right? Why would I get these Audiophile grade headphones, only to listen to Dolby Digital? I just want to be able to get the best sound quality possible out of my PS3 while using these headphones. I've been on google for hours reading and reading. I need some help. Thanks.


 
  (Dolby Pro Logic IIz is the newest Dolby chip use in receivers)
  I believe (guessing) the PS3 outputs Blu-ray DTS-HD master audio thru HDMI and I'm assuming some limited Dolby support for Dolby DVD movies, using LPCM and like passing it thru the HDMI cable.
  Personally I prefer Yamahas as the come standard with Silent Cinema (Yamaha's headphone surround sound). Which I believe works with a DTS or Dolby source.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





prinnyg said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good gaming headphone that is closed, and is under $300?
> The Q701 really caught my eyes, so I'm looking for something similar of that, but closed. I really don't want to disturb people while I game, but I still want the immersive feel I get when i play music or game really loud.


 
   
   
  Perhaps AKG K550...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I've read this article ( http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones) explaining the ohm. "As a rule of thumb, a damping factor of 10 or more is desirable for the source to be able to drive the load with authority. For example, if the amp has an output impedance of 10 ohms, you want the headphones to be at least 100 ohms or more in order for the amp to make the headphone driver move accurately with the audio signal." also realized that the dt 770 pros 250 ohm version are available for a cheaper price on Amazon.com.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I prefer the DT990s over the DT770s for just about everything.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





prinnyg said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good gaming headphone that is closed, and is under $300?
> The Q701 really caught my eyes, so I'm looking for something similar of that, but closed. I really don't want to disturb people while I game, but I still want the immersive feel I get when i play music or game really loud.


 
  Audio Technica ATH-A900X (40-Ohms), but you want use them with an amplifier with a low impedance, like 5-ohms or less.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Perhaps AKG K550...




God no. Horrible, horrible sounding headphone, IMHO. The KSC75 is better...

Dont like the A900x either... but its better than the K550.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> God no. Horrible, horrible sounding headphone, IMHO. The KSC75 is better...
> Dont like the A900x either... but its better than the K550.


 
   
   
  I've seen several people say the K550 is like a closed Q701....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They need their ears checked then. It sounds so thin and lifeless... no...no.

Seriously though...no. lol.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> SoAmusing777,
> Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!
> I personally say Receivers have a great long-sighted value if you can physically fit them into your gaming space. You get a decent solid-state amp, hook ups for Hi-Fi speakers, a touch of EQ for your headphones, remote, input switcher so you can keep various systems hooked up to your TV, all the sound codecs you need (like DTS and Dolby Digital), an external DAC, an fm radio tuner, etc... To be honest, you will be hard pressed to hear a difference between HDMI and Optical (it's like slightly softer, I barely make it out with my Q701s), so either should be fine. Dolby Digital is nothing to sneeze at, but of course the receiver will (probably) understand most types of DTS signals too.
> To explain one thing, after the receiver, uh, receives either a DTS or Dolby Digital signal from your console, it processes the signal inside the receiver's DAC, and if you have headphones plugged in it will then simulate surround sound using a processing algorithm like Dolby Headphone, or some other manufacturer's proprietary algorithm (like Yamaha's "Silent Cinema"). If you want the Dolby Headphone version of headphone surround in a receiver, you'll have to find an older model of Harman Kardon receiver, apparently. Newer versions have HK's own version of headphone surround... which I personally haven't heard if it's better or worse.
> ...


 
   

 Ha, thank you for the welcome, although my wallet will be okay  I agree about the receiver bit. Good to know. I want to take the 5.1 signal from games, then use Dolby Headphone. It seems the only way I can get this LPCM 5.1 24bit/192kHz sound is through HDMI to a receiver, but then I'm screwed when it comes to chat audio. I want to use the mixamp, but the optical is not capable of LPCM 5.1 What to do, what to do... EDIT:  http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audiomixer#pictures - I believe I have found the answer. I have a question though. The Q701's wire technology... Is it degraded when I plug it into an extender? What I'm asking is, say I have a headphone port, I plug in a regular 3.5mm cord, then at the other end I plug the headphones in. Am I losing audio quality by not straight plugging the headphones in?


----------



## ronswanson

You can still get Dolby digital 5.1 with optical. 

Would LPCM 5.1 really be that big of a noticeable difference in quality with Dolby Headphone? I'm guessing no.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I know, but it's compressed and less kHZ as well. I have no clue though.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i personally never found movies to work good with headphones either way.  Games are made with headphones in mind and movies are not.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Good to know, but this is the "gaming guide" thread. I mentioned I have a ps3. This is gaming related and has nothing to do with movies. Thanks for the input though. I'm just now, wanting to know, if plugging the headphone jack of the Q701's into an extender, rather than directly into whatever, degrades the quality.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

tough....hmmm don't know of any games that us 24BIT which you mentioned as being a key factor in your whole little mess.  Sorry before you get to hard on me, about how this is a "gaming guide" realize that i was just trying to help you out.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

he-300 anyone?    They're an open back dynamic headphone


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> tough....hmmm don't know of any games that us 24BIT which you mentioned as being a key factor in your whole little mess.  Sorry before you get to hard on me, about how this is a "gaming guide" realize that i was just trying to help you out.


 

 What's tough? No games use 24bit? Is that what you're saying, or? I actually don't know much at all. I just know LPCM is uncompressed and lossless, producing the best sound over the other options that I have, which are compressed lossy. Idk how much better, if at all, in this instance. Why is it a mess? What you said previously seemed to be very common sense and also, something not related to what I was trying to figure out.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> i personally never found movies to work good with headphones either way.  Games are made with headphones in mind and movies are not.


 
   
  I can't really agree with that statement, otherwise binaural mixes would be a default option in today's games with software-mixed audio instead of forcing us to make do with virtual 7.1 via expensive surround processors (or cheap sound cards in otherwise expensive gaming PCs).


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I can't really agree with that statement, otherwise binaural mixes would be a default option in today's games with software-mixed audio instead of forcing us to make do with virtual 7.1 via expensive surround processors (or cheap sound cards in otherwise expensive gaming PCs).


 

 Hit the nail on the head right there. Too bad A3D is gone, along with the way that game audio was before. It's dumb. On to me thoughhh... I have the Q701's. I'm going to be using them on PS3. I can go the mixamp route with Dolby Digital 5.1, or LPCM through a receiver. LPCM is lossless and uncompressed, but is it that much better than DD? If it is, oh, I don't wanna repeat myself, just go back a few posts, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> One of my favorite types of shooters/games are the semi-open world games like Crysis.  They are still linear, but they give you more room for creativity for how you want to play.  This gives them a lot of replay value.


 
   
  As a fan of semi-open/open world shooters, I'm pleased to see that Far Cry 3 has been getting high reviews, so it is now definitely on my "WILL BUY_, at some point" _list of games.
   
  I also WILL BUY Crysis 3 in Q1.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
What games are you guys looking forward to for the holidays and/or hope that _"Santa"_ will bring you?
   
   
  The next games on my "To Get/Play" list are ME3 (ya, still haven't played it :\ ), Dark Souls, Max Payne 3, Halo 4, RE6, and Singularity (Looks like an overlooked/under appreciated game that combines elements of Bioshock and Half Life, and it's_ dirt cheap_ now).
   
   
  I just picked up Witcher 2 and will be playing around with that in the meantime.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> A used receiver with HDMI might serve you better, as it would have both Dolby and DTS features, connect the the PS3 to the receiver using HDMI.
> HDMI can pass 8-channels (7.1) of PCM (uncompressed) digital audio 24-bit/192Khz.
> So you will get full Blu-ray audio from movies and possible 7.1 gaming audio.
> Plus you get something you can plug speakers into.
> ...


 
   
  I'm not really knowledgeable about audio so I'm going to ask some question you've probably already answered a 1000 times but I shall ask anyway. I suppose I need a 7.1 Yamaha receiver for example. A 5.1 model would not do the trick even if I am playing with an HDMI cable. The result would be similar to using an optical cable. Also, I'm assuming a lot of these models have 3.5 jacks to plug headphones into if I so choose.
   
  Still, that doesn't solve the voice chat issue. Although I might be able to use that USB converter another poster mentioned a page or two back to use a mic.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I'm not really knowledgeable about audio so I'm going to ask some question you've probably already answered a 1000 times but I shall ask anyway. I suppose I need a 7.1 Yamaha receiver for example. A 5.1 model would not do the trick even if I am playing with an HDMI cable. The result would be similar to using an optical cable. Also, I'm assuming a lot of these models have 3.5 jacks to plug headphones into if I so choose.
> 
> Still, that doesn't solve the voice chat issue. Although I might be able to use that USB converter another poster mentioned a page or two back to use a mic.


 
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I can't really agree with that statement, otherwise binaural mixes would be a default option in today's games with software-mixed audio instead of forcing us to make do with virtual 7.1 via expensive surround processors (or cheap sound cards in otherwise expensive gaming PCs).


 
   
  Is it just me, Roger, or are we kinda in the same perdicament. Okay, question, Nameless, binaural is the best form of positional audio there is right? I want 3d sound, like x,y,z. Is this even possible on console? If not, what's the best alternative?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> As a fan of semi-open/open world shooters, I'm pleased to see that Far Cry 3 has been getting high reviews, so it is now definitely on my "WILL BUY_, at some point" _list of games.
> 
> I also WILL BUY Crysis 3 in Q1.
> 
> ...


 

 Right now I'm going through the new Hitman (hmm, so-so), Far Cry 3 (just started, cool!) Metro 2033 (stuck somewhere, meh!) and Okami HD (glorious!). In a couple of days I will also get Z.O.E. HD and Darksiders II...
   
  I'm pretty much stocked for the holidays!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Is it just me, Roger, or are we kinda in the same perdicament. Okay, question, Nameless, binaural is the best form of positional audio there is right? I want 3d sound, like x,y,z. Is this even possible on console? If not, what's the best alternative?


 
   
  A binaural mix basically is 3D sound, presented much the way we hear things coming from all directions in real life despite only having two ears.
   
  The only thing is that a binaurally-mixed source (like most music) is pre-mixed with a set HRTF, which may deviate too much from some users' own HRTFs. If you instead use 3D sound coordinates (or an ambisonic soundfield recording) as the source, however, you can just mix that into whatever HRTF the user desires for a user-tailored binaural mix. (Or, if you prefer speakers, you're not limited to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, either. Want to replicate a Dolby Atmos theater at home? Go right ahead.)
   
  As you know, Aureal basically pioneered it for 3D gaming with A3D, though I don't think they actually called it binaural. All the average gamer knew was "Holy crap, check out this helicopter in Half-Life! I can hear exactly where it is with my headphones, even with my eyes closed! It actually sounds like it's above my head!"
   
  This would, in theory, be possible on modern consoles if they'd just bother to mix it that way (software audio mixing would bring little CPU overhead these days, and I recall a lot of PS3 dev statements on using the Cell SPEs to that effect), but it's even more of an afterthought than it is with PCs because the console manufacturers and developers expect you to be playing it with a 5.1/7.1 home theater speaker system and then optimize their mixes with that in mind. They probably don't even know what terms like "binaural" and "HRTF" mean.
   
  So as it stands, the best we can expect from modern consoles (and PC games with software-mixed audio through XAudio2 or FMOD Ex) is a virtual 5.1/7.1 home theater room. Dolby Headphone goes most of the way there, though if you really want to spend thousands more to have the very best in virtual 7.1, you can opt for the Smyth Realiser A8. (Just make sure you're using it with a console that outputs 8-channel LPCM over HDMI, or that you have a Dolby Digital/DTS decoder box in front of it for S/PDIF-only sources like the PS2, original Xbox and launch period Xbox 360s. Also make sure you can get a recording made at a good 7.1 theater, or otherwise you're undermining the whole point of the Realiser over much cheaper Dolby Headphone processors.)


----------



## DoctaCosmos

have you found any games that use 24bit yet....?  Also, binaural mixes don't give positional ques the same manner as a video game as binaural relies on raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides to give the effect of left to right.  it's a neat trick but that crappy virtual 7.1 is about the best you're going to get with greedy money hungry video game makers.   They're not going to go run around with every gun in the game and then with any attachment that might make it sound different in circles at different radius's.  Binaural recordings are a little to realistic for video games in my opinion.  It'd be like watching a dvd from an old crt television while listening to $50,000 home theater.  Just two different things.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> A binaural mix basically is 3D sound, presented much the way we hear things coming from all directions in real life despite only having two ears.
> 
> The only thing is that a binaurally-mixed source (like most music) is pre-mixed with a set HRTF, which may deviate too much from some users' own HRTFs. If you instead use 3D sound coordinates (or an ambisonic soundfield recording) as the source, however, you can just mix that into whatever HRTF the user desires for a user-tailored binaural mix. (Or, if you prefer speakers, you're not limited to a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, either. Want to replicate a Dolby Atmos theater at home? Go right ahead.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Right. Well, sounds like someone should be doing gaming audio for a living  That would be awesome to have. That's a shame... Maybe audio will get to where it needs to be soon. In this day and age, we shouldn't be regressing. Good to know. That Smyth thing looks really fascinating, but just, way outta my league. Even though it's awesome, it's still only simulating 5.1, not audio in the x/y/z, correct?
  Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> have you found any games that use 24bit yet....?  Also, binaural mixes don't give positional ques the same manner as a video game as binaural relies on raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides to give the effect of left to right.  it's a neat trick but that crappy virtual 7.1 is about the best you're going to get with greedy money hungry video game makers.   They're not going to go run around with every gun in the game and then with any attachment that might make it sound different in circles at different radius's.  Binaural recordings are a little to realistic for video games in my opinion.  It'd be like watching a dvd from an old crt television while listening to $50,000 home theater.  Just two different things.


 
   
  I guess not? Battlefield 3? Idk. I don't know much about it. Like I said, I just want to get the best possible audio from my games, not only quality of the sound, but realism of it as well. Good to know. Would they really have to do that? I'm sure there's another way around.


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Good to know, but this is the "gaming guide" thread. I mentioned I have a ps3. This is gaming related and has nothing to do with movies. Thanks for the input though. I'm just now, wanting to know, if plugging the headphone jack of the Q701's into an extender, rather than directly into whatever, degrades the quality.




Shouldn't be an issue unless you use a crappy extension or a ridiculously long one...


----------



## ruuku

Anytime the wire is separated, these will be a loss of audio quality, but I wouldn't worry about it too much as the signal itself for most games isn't going to be top-notch. That being said the Q701s come with 2 cables, long and ridiculously long.... (3 meter and 6 meter), so unless you're really far, or your setup is in another room, you shouldn't have a need for an extension.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Well, I was wanting to use the headphones with the PS3, but wanted to be able to control game/voice chat volume. Steelseries has something like this where you plug in the mic and the headphone into the green port, then it goes mic>usb>ps3 and headphones>green port>other end 3.5mm plugs into the system.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone know of a USB hub (hell, not even a hub) that I can plug into a wall and charge like 4 things at once? I have clutter and just wanna charge my Phone, Vita, 3DS XL, E17, PSP all in on spot. It's a gawddamn hassle, really.

I do not need it to connect to the computer. Needs to be charged by a wall outlet.

edit: looks legit...

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Port-Speed-Power-Adapter/dp/B003Z4G3I6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354518938&sr=1-1&keywords=wall+usb+hub+power+hungry


----------



## ruuku

soamusing777 said:


> Well, I was wanting to use the headphones with the PS3, but wanted to be able to control game/voice chat volume. Steelseries has something like this where you plug in the mic and the headphone into the green port, then it goes mic>usb>ps3 and headphones>green port>other end 3.5mm plugs into the system.



This goes against the whole nature of why this thread was created in the first place.... but I don't expect much sound quality loss between goring directly from the TV and having the SS audio mixer inbetween. 
 


mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of a USB hub (hell, not even a hub) that I can plug into a wall and charge like 4 things at once? I have clutter and just wanna charge my Phone, Vita, 3DS XL, E17, PSP all in on spot. It's a gawddamn hassle, really.
> I do not need it to connect to the computer. Needs to be charged by a wall outlet.



MLE no powered hub at home? I would assume that any wall wart equipped usb hub should be able to charge all above listed devices... I guess it depends on the amp draw of the device...but still should work for most of them.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of a USB hub (hell, not even a hub) that I can plug into a wall and charge like 4 things at once? I have clutter and just wanna charge my Phone, Vita, 3DS XL, E17, PSP all in on spot. It's a gawddamn hassle, really.
> I do not need it to connect to the computer. Needs to be charged by a wall outlet.
> edit: looks legit...
> http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Port-Speed-Power-Adapter/dp/B003Z4G3I6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354518938&sr=1-1&keywords=wall+usb+hub+power+hungry


 
  The product description says it won't be able to charge an iPad so that means it won't be able to "charge" the Vita. It actually will charge but only at a trickle charge rate when the display is off, kinda like trying to charge your Vita on a regular usb port on your computer. You also want to keep in mind that the more things you plug into a usb hub, the more the power will be split so things will charge a little slower. I personally just use a power strip/surge protector and plug in like 2x regular and 2x 10w usb wall adapters.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of a USB hub (hell, not even a hub) that I can plug into a wall and charge like 4 things at once? I have clutter and just wanna charge my Phone, Vita, 3DS XL, E17, PSP all in on spot. It's a gawddamn hassle, really.
> I do not need it to connect to the computer. Needs to be charged by a wall outlet.
> edit: looks legit...
> http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Port-Speed-Power-Adapter/dp/B003Z4G3I6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354518938&sr=1-1&keywords=wall+usb+hub+power+hungry


 
   
  I've got this one and it's nice.  More ports then I need, but it has a cool blue light.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-USB-Port-Power-Adapter/dp/B00483WRZ6/ref=pd_cp_pc_0


----------



## I95North

Does anyone have any new and recent Update Info on the 2013 Mixamp??


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> This goes against the whole nature of why this thread was created in the first place.... but I don't expect much sound quality loss between goring directly from the TV and having the SS audio mixer inbetween.
> 
> MLE no powered hub at home? I would assume that any wall wart equipped usb hub should be able to charge all above listed devices... I guess it depends on the amp draw of the device...but still should work for most of them.


 

 How does it go against the whole nature of the thread? I'm just trying to get the best possible audio for my games on PS3. Best to me is not only the quality, but also realism, like positioning. I figured that a pair of Audiophile headphones, coupled with Dolby Headphone, would be my best option. Going with a receiver rather than the mixamp gives me the option to use LPCM, so, that's about all I can think of. I'd like to get 3d audio, like that of what Nameless talks about, but sadly, I don't have that available on console. My next best option to what I have suggested here, that I know of, is the uber expensive smyth realizer.
   
  Quote:


i95north said:


> Does anyone have any new and recent Update Info on the 2013 Mixamp??


 
  What were you wanting to know? Last time I check it was having quote a few problems. The stream port outputs crap audio, the mic sound of the user's voice was low, but has been fixed although another problem was created. That problem was that your own voice can be heard in the headset. Mmm, also there were problems with the supplied usb cable providing power that may have been resolved. Be wary. The build quality surely doesn't seem like that of the last iterations.


----------



## Hailin

The problem is lpcm is pointless with gaming audio. Audio files are so highly compressed on console games that you might be highly disappointed stepping into the pool with such deep expectations. Also my SS mixer added a small amount of hum from the USB power. About the same as a set of turtle beach. There is nothing wrong with going with a quality amp though tons of options down the road.


----------



## Archernick

Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal and upgrade from my horrible Razer Megalodons?
   
  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003Z6H08Q/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=05PH141NK5PVH9GWN3YE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=317819927&pf_rd_i=468294
   
  I'm looking to ditch these and get a dedicated internal sound card and a better headset. This combo seems like a really great price but I don't know anything about Sennheiser's.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> This goes against the whole nature of why this thread was created in the first place.... but I don't expect much sound quality loss between goring directly from the TV and having the SS audio mixer inbetween.
> 
> MLE no powered hub at home? I would assume that any wall wart equipped usb hub should be able to charge all above listed devices... I guess it depends on the amp draw of the device...but still should work for most of them.


 
  Oh gawd I feel you, I'm installing a Usb 2 pci card into my Pc today for that exact reason... need a place to charge all of my stuff!


----------



## ronswanson

i95north said:


> Does anyone have any new and recent Update Info on the 2013 Mixamp??




As far as availability, Astro's Twitter said "early December" in a reply to someone on Nov. 30.


----------



## I95North

Ok thanks.. I wish Astro would give better info on the release date of the new mixamp instead of just early December.. I would love to try out the new mixamp to see if I like it better than my Recon USB or dss2


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Ok thanks.. I wish Astro would give better info on the release date of the new mixamp instead of just early December.. I would love to try out the new mixamp to see if I like it better than my Recon USB or dss2


 
   
  Considering that they originally said Mid-November, and pushed into December, I suspect they are trying to work out some of the supposed quality issues first.  Who knows.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> The problem is lpcm is pointless with gaming audio. Audio files are so highly compressed on console games that you might be highly disappointed stepping into the pool with such deep expectations. Also my SS mixer added a small amount of hum from the USB power. About the same as a set of turtle beach. There is nothing wrong with going with a quality amp though tons of options down the road.


 
   
  How is it pointless? I thought LPCM was uncompressed? Does the console not generate the sounds? I don't have deep expectations. I'm going from DD 5.1 with Tritton AX pro's to Q701's with Dolby headphone. I just expect it to be better. If you can think of a better way for me to get sound than to go the route I'm going, let me know please, with the exception of the Smyth realizer. I don't want that. The steelseries may do the same, who knows.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

think of lpcm as a thick straw.  It is capable of sending uncompressed but if it's not fed uncompressed then you won't get uncompressed.  Your search for 24/192 is in the right direction for music and movies, unfortunately like we've been trying to tell you, games are just compressed audio.  Some more than others. how much detail you looking for out of a video game anyways lol.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

detail and realism as most of the sounds are artificially produced anyways.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

also, hearing your own voice with the new mixamp is an improvement over the older model which was suppose to do that but it didn't hardly do it unless your mic was right next to your mouth.  They do this because your game draws out your ability to hear your own voice, you tend to yell.  If the mic was less sensitive then i'm down for that as all my friends in my parties have turtle beaches and they all saying i'm yelling because they have their chat volume set to what is good for turtle beaches.  If anything this is better for me because now i'm at a matched level as the other people in my parties.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> have you found any games that use 24bit yet....?  Also, binaural mixes don't give positional ques the same manner as a video game as binaural relies on raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides to give the effect of left to right.  it's a neat trick but that crappy virtual 7.1 is about the best you're going to get with greedy money hungry video game makers.   They're not going to go run around with every gun in the game and then with any attachment that might make it sound different in circles at different radius's.  Binaural recordings are a little to realistic for video games in my opinion.  It'd be like watching a dvd from an old crt television while listening to $50,000 home theater.  Just two different things.


 
   
  Raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides? That makes it sound like a simple crossfeed, and binaural is so much more than that. Note my mention of Head-Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs) whenever talking about binaural mixes. It's the HRTF simulation that makes it binaural and not just a dumb crossfeed.
   
  And those recordings are _too_ realistic for video games? I never thought I'd hear about anyone complaining about that sort of thing before. If anything, proper binaural audio in games really adds to the immersion for me, like I'm really there. It's also a very handy competitive advantage. (How many times have I used the phrase "aural wallhack" on here? I lost count...)
   
  Oh, and speaking of CRTs, I still find it funny how this decade-old Sony GDM-FW900 sitting in front of me still wipes the floor with every single display made after it for gaming. Of course, that's a professional aperture-grille CRT monitor capable of handling 2304x1440 at 80 Hz and lower resolutions up to 160 Hz, being Sony's top-of-the-line monitor for a cool $2,500 back then, not the cheap shadow mask SDTVs everyone thinks of.
   
  Still, it's a damn shame that CRTs still haven't been surpassed as gaming monitors, with their combination of no input lag, high refresh rates (for smoother motion), perfect viewing angles (something even the best LCD types aren't capable of, especially in the blacks), deep blacks, and total lack of native resolutions, which is nice for those of us who still like to play old games that don't go as high resolution-wise. Some technologies might do a few things better, but suffer greatly in other areas.
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Right. Well, sounds like someone should be doing gaming audio for a living  That would be awesome to have. That's a shame... Maybe audio will get to where it needs to be soon. In this day and age, we shouldn't be regressing. Good to know. That Smyth thing looks really fascinating, but just, way outta my league. Even though it's awesome, it's still only simulating 5.1, not audio in the x/y/z, correct?


 
   
  Correct, the Smyth Realiser is simulating a 5.1/7.1 theater system in the end. It just happens to be really good at it because it allows you to profile it using in-ear microphones and whatever theater you can set it up in for a test recording, but it's still just 7.1 at the most. You also can't profile only HRTFs with it, just a PRIR (Personalized Room Impulse Response, as they call it) because it's also recording all the other qualities of the theater you're in, like the speakers and the room acoustics.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





archernick said:


> Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal and upgrade from my horrible Razer Megalodons?
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003Z6H08Q/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=05PH141NK5PVH9GWN3YE&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=317819927&pf_rd_i=468294
> 
> I'm looking to ditch these and get a dedicated internal sound card and a better headset. This combo seems like a really great price but I don't know anything about Sennheiser's.


 
   
   
  The headset is a Sennheiser PC350, which is a closed version of the PC360.  You should be able to search for PC350 to get impressions about how it sounds.  Open headsets are generally preferable for gaming though.


----------



## Makiah S

So I luv you guys, and the thread
   
  What's a good intro Level AKG headphone to buy that will introduce me to the Akg House Sound... I might demo a pair of K77's, and I'm curious... do they have the "house" sound! My goal is to try a few more brands of cans, so I can widen mah knowledge!


----------



## burritoboy9984

Well I got my replacement Monoprice headset in. Same static noise when the switch is on amp (with all the volume adjustments on the inline controller and amp turned all the way down, there is still static) which is how they want you to setup xbox live communications. I'm going to chat with them a bit later, and see if there is anything they can do/fix in the future, but for now, I suggest staying away from it if you wish be able to chat with it. You could setup your voice settings to play through speakers and headset and hear other people, but the voice monitoring feature doesn't work without the switch being on amp.
   
  Overall my first impressions stand on the mixamp portion of it. Positioning isn't quite as defined/open as with the mixamp, and the rears are lacking. Price-wise, it is a good value, and would be an EXCELLENT value if they could fix the static.
   
  If anyone else gets one in, post your thoughts as well, perhaps I just got a bad batch but I doubt it after the second one.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see why positioning would be any different from the Mixamp, with exception of the amp's strength being weaker, leading to a smaller soundstage. I'd just have to try it out personally.

Can you try using another headphone, or that MP headphone without the chat enabled to see if the hiss goes away?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Well I got my replacement Monoprice headset in. Same static noise when the switch is on amp (with all the volume adjustments on the inline controller and amp turned all the way down, there is still static) which is how they want you to setup xbox live communications. I'm going to chat with them a bit later, and see if there is anything they can do/fix in the future, but for now, I suggest staying away from it if you wish be able to chat with it. You could setup your voice settings to play through speakers and headset and hear other people, but the voice monitoring feature doesn't work without the switch being on amp.
> 
> Overall my first impressions stand on the mixamp portion of it. Positioning isn't quite as defined/open as with the mixamp, and the rears are lacking. Price-wise, it is a good value, and would be an EXCELLENT value if they could fix the static.
> 
> ...


 
   
  What type of controller do you have, and can you try a different one?  I read a review of the monoprice that said the static was caused by a controller with the switchable D-pad. 
   
  The monoprice page says _"The DAC also allows for separate volume control over each of the 8 audio channels, so you can adjust it for the perfect soundstage balance."  _Any word on this (is it mentioned in the manual and are the controls for it?)  Seems like it should sound nearly identical to the mixamp in terms of positioning unless it has some other processing going on.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  P.S. could you upload some close-up pics so we can see the buttons and stuff?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't see why positioning would be any different from the Mixamp, with exception of the amp's strength being weaker, leading to a smaller soundstage. I'd just have to try it out personally.
> Can you try using another headphone, or that MP headphone without the chat enabled to see if the hiss goes away?


 
   
  That was my thought as well. I didn't play much with the inline controller being switched to amp (makes is louder, so obviously more power). Perhaps that would open up the soundstage some, but the annoying static is there.
   
  I did use other headsets (PC360 and AD700), the MP headphones are SUPER sensitive. So the others drowned the hiss slightly, on the PC360, you can turn the volume knob down until it is more or less gone, but on the AD700 you don't have that luxury.
   
  I have 2 right now, perhaps I could mail them both to you, then you could send them to MP. MP is paying for return shipping, so you would just need to pay for me to ship them to you. Then when you are done, slap on the prepaid shipping label and take it to the UPS store, lmk. I'm going to contact MP chat in the next few days before I post a review on their site to see what they have to say.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What type of controller do you have, and can you try a different one?  I read a review of the monoprice that said the static was caused by a controller with the switchable D-pad.
> 
> The monoprice page says _"The DAC also allows for separate volume control over each of the 8 audio channels, so you can adjust it for the perfect soundstage balance."  _Any word on this (is it mentioned in the manual and are the controls for it?)  Seems like it should sound nearly identical to the mixamp in terms of positioning unless it has some other processing going on.
> 
> ...


 
   
  In that review, what I believe they meant was the mic would be constantly producing static (which other players would hear on xbox live), not that it caused the owner of the headphones to hear static. I noticed a few times I would plug it in, and the in game mic indicator would be solid and I would have to take the batteries out of the controller and reinsert them. As I stated above, the  static I am noticing is there independent of what is plugged in, and how loud any of the volumes are set at.
   
  I didn't even see that part on the item description, good find! But, the manual doesn't explain any of that, and from playing around with the amp, there isn't really a way to change certain channel volumes.
   
  What all would you like pics of? Make a quick list and I'll take them in the AM before work.
   
  -Erik
   
  Edit: After looking at the manual of the Sharkoon X-Tatic SR, it appears the "Sound Control Units" are nearly identical except for the 3d Stereo Sound feature on the Sharkoon.


----------



## PanamaHat

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> he-300 anyone?    They're an open back dynamic headphone


 
  +1.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> That was my thought as well. I didn't play much with the inline controller being switched to amp (makes is louder, so obviously more power). Perhaps that would open up the soundstage some, but the annoying static is there.
> 
> I did use other headsets (PC360 and AD700), the MP headphones are SUPER sensitive. So the others drowned the hiss slightly, on the PC360, you can turn the volume knob down until it is more or less gone, but on the AD700 you don't have that luxury.
> 
> ...


 
   
  AD700 is the most susceptible-to-hiss headphone I've used.  PC360 can bury it some though.
   
  I can see an inline cable amp adding hiss, as pretty much all the Turtle Beach headsets that do that get complaints about the hiss.
   
  That's a little disappointing that the monoprice decoder box appears to made from where Sharkoon got there's.  I was hoping it was a monoprice original design.
   
  The manual hints that it takes dobly headphone and then processes further:
   
  Quote: 





> _      The SCU offers two different playback modes for the reproduction of Dolby ®  Headphone signals.
> These  playback modes are different in tone color and sound impression. The gaming mode focuses on
> heavy basses so especially in-game sound effects are accurately reproduced.
> In contrast the music mode of the SCU offers a well-balanced tone color which is recommended for
> music listening._


 
   
  Just plain Dolby Headphone pleaze!
   
  The Sharkoon box only says PLII and Dolby 5.1, where the monoprice is PLIIx + 7.1, so they may have different chips still.
   
  You probably don't need to take pics if it looks just like the Sharkoon box, b/c I can just look at pictures of that....


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> AD700 is the most susceptible-to-hiss headphone I've used.  PC360 can bury it some though.
> 
> I can see an inline cable amp adding hiss, as pretty much all the Turtle Beach headsets that do that get complaints about the hiss.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It is different from the Sharkoon box slightly. The 4 buttons from the Power -> mode on the side are identical, the shape is slightly different as you can see on the monoprice site.
   
  The headset sounds pretty good with the inline amp off, but to process the xbox live chat you have to have it on, or have the voice settings to play through speakers.
   
  If you still want pics, let me know what of.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Impulse

mshenay said:


> So I luv you guys, and the thread
> 
> What's a good intro Level AKG headphone to buy that will introduce me to the Akg House Sound... I might demo a pair of K77's, and I'm curious... do they have the "house" sound! My goal is to try a few more brands of cans, so I can widen mah knowledge!




I'm not sure there's such a thing, tho I haven't tried AKG's lower end open models either. Something like the closed K181 is gonna sound vastly different than the Q701 tho. 

Some brands like Senn might have more similarities across models even between open and closed stuff but even then there's always exceptions... For instance the closed HD25-1 ii sound very different than most Senn (and not necessarily in the way you'd expect), still one of their oldest and most popular headphones.

I guess you could view AT AD700's as a very poor man's Q701? If that's the direction you were looking in... Probably easier to compare specific models or try out stuff with similar signatures based on recommendations and threads like this than to go by brand.


----------



## chicolom

AKG K240 is one of the more popular AKGs.  It's pretty well balanced sounding, but I can't remember how similar it is or isn't to the Q701.  It definitely has a smaller soundstage.  It's semi-open.


----------



## ruuku

namelesspfg said:


> Raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides? That makes it sound like a simple crossfeed, and binaural is so much more than that. Note my mention of Head-Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs) whenever talking about binaural mixes. It's the HRTF simulation that makes it binaural and not just a dumb crossfeed.
> 
> And those recordings are _too_ realistic for video games? I never thought I'd hear about anyone complaining about that sort of thing before. If anything, proper binaural audio in games really adds to the immersion for me, like I'm really there. It's also a very handy competitive advantage. (How many times have I used the phrase "aural wallhack" on here? I lost count...)
> 
> ...




This brought back fond memories of my 19" sony... bought around 1995-6 and lasted until 2005... that thing weighed a ton, but the colors, and refresh rates were grand. Recent TVs and monitors have been getting better though, but I guess its "artificially" raising the bar through software ( gaming modes ect.) rather than through straight forward technological advances. After using a 27" daily for the past 6-months or so, I'd be hard pressed to want to revert to anything less than 24". Display wise, the next few years should be pretty interesting... its nice to see IPS panels finally hitting the mainstream, as well as advances in OLED and other technologies.


----------



## HalidePisces

namelesspfg said:


> Oh, and speaking of CRTs, I still find it funny how this decade-old Sony GDM-FW900 sitting in front of me still wipes the floor with every single display made after it for gaming. Of course, that's a professional aperture-grille CRT monitor capable of handling 2304x1440 at 80 Hz and lower resolutions up to 160 Hz, being Sony's top-of-the-line monitor for a cool $2,500 back then, not the cheap shadow mask SDTVs everyone thinks of.
> 
> Still, it's a damn shame that CRTs still haven't been surpassed as gaming monitors, with their combination of no input lag, high refresh rates (for smoother motion), perfect viewing angles (something even the best LCD types aren't capable of, especially in the blacks), deep blacks, and total lack of native resolutions, which is nice for those of us who still like to play old games that don't go as high resolution-wise. Some technologies might do a few things better, but suffer greatly in other areas.



You have a Sony GDM-FW900? Holy crap, am I jealous of you.

Out of curiosity, how well does it display a 4:3 picture?


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh, and speaking of CRTs, I still find it funny how this decade-old Sony GDM-FW900 sitting in front of me still wipes the floor with every single display made after it for gaming. Of course, that's a professional aperture-grille CRT monitor capable of handling 2304x1440 at 80 Hz and lower resolutions up to 160 Hz, being Sony's top-of-the-line monitor for a cool $2,500 back then, not the cheap shadow mask SDTVs everyone thinks of.
> 
> Still, it's a damn shame that CRTs still haven't been surpassed as gaming monitors, with their combination of no input lag, high refresh rates (for smoother motion), perfect viewing angles (something even the best LCD types aren't capable of, especially in the blacks), deep blacks, and total lack of native resolutions, which is nice for those of us who still like to play old games that don't go as high resolution-wise. Some technologies might do a few things better, but suffer greatly in other areas.


 
  Nameless you should get with the times and throw that boat anchor over board and get a REAL nice led monitor lol. I'm Kidding really i have the HP-A7217A same as yours and i can't game without it at all. Aside from getting nauseous when playing games on lcd's of any sort they also make my eyes blood shot red after only an hour of playing on them. I gave up using lcd's 3  years back and found my new joy.
   
  She takes about 30mins to get to her climax and put out like no other monitor can for me and then when she does its oooHH so Heavenly it makes me wanna  cry lol..
   
  If she breaks down i don't know what i'd do.   I0 years old and she still puts out vivid colors, crisp blacks and crazy nice contrast ratios like a spring chickin..


----------



## Porter1

Quote: 





i95north said:


> She takes about 30mins to get to her climax


 
   
  hmmm that's a bit on the long side.  are you sure you're pressing the right buttons.... ..?
   
  yeah the FW900 and HP variant are legendary in the computer geek world.  i haven't gamed on a CRT since around 2004 or so.  i imagine it would be jarring going back.  jarring in a good way.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Actually your evidence being hrtf's, is how we hear and while they are able to use algorythms to understand how our hearing works but when recording a BINAURAL RECORDING it is as simple as two different mics using crossfade.  If you watch a video of binaural recordings,  It's a dummy head with two mics, one in each ear in an anachoic chamber.  They don't alter it in anyway after it's recorded. Now, what you're talking about is turning a MONAURAL SOURCE into a binaural recording.   That's pretty much how dolby headphone works. 
  I don't appreciate your attitude btw.  I was just trying to help you out and you turned hcinto a little tkid all of a sudden.
  imaybe bmy analogy of crt tv's was a soft spot since you have an "unbeatable picture quality" crt but it's obvious that you knew what i meant.


----------



## seb UK

Great thread, heaps of good info!
   
  After doing hours and hours of research I think I've settled on either the DT998, the PC360 or the HD598. I'm going to be using these for gaming and movies, probably about 50/50. I'd be really interested in people's views on which of these are better for movies.
   
  I used to have a Logitech 5500 which was fantastic for watching movies, great surround sound and awesome bass. I loved it - way better than going to the movies. Now that I've moved to the UK, I have to go to headphones. I'm hoping to get something as good as the 5500 for movies, but not sure headphones will deliver. What do you guys think?


----------



## Impulse

I think the overall quality and ability to reveal on any of those three would easily put your Logitech speakers to shame... Bass might not be as bone rattling but it'll be more detailed and deeper, there's always other headphones if you're a total basshead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dt990 all the way.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I personally didn't like the 598's for gaming at all.  The imaging seemed off and the headphone itself is not as detailed as i like.  I personally find the headphone to have a strained characteristic to it.  Like it slowly lets the sound out instead of being effortless.  Also, even with a good amp driving these, i could get the drivers to create a bit of excursion if i wanted to but there was minimal pressure from sub bass.


----------



## PanamaHat

MLE, planning on trying out the Sony mdr-ma900 anytime soon?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, no. I wont be buying anything anytime soon, though expect a couple of surprises in The coming weeks.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I'm not sure there's such a thing, tho I haven't tried AKG's lower end open models either. Something like the closed K181 is gonna sound vastly different than the Q701 tho.
> Some brands like Senn might have more similarities across models even between open and closed stuff but even then there's always exceptions... For instance the closed HD25-1 ii sound very different than most Senn (and not necessarily in the way you'd expect), still one of their oldest and most popular headphones.
> I guess you could view AT AD700's as a very poor man's Q701? If that's the direction you were looking in... Probably easier to compare specific models or try out stuff with similar signatures based on recommendations and threads like this than to go by brand.


 
  Maybe, I'll be trying a Akg K77 tommorow [a pretty HARD CORE low end AKG can] so well see how it compares to the Koss Pro Dj 100... if it's better than I'll look into Akg more. If it sucks... TO BAD FOR U AKG, besides akg cans are notoriously bass light... [with the expection of thier Bass Heave cans]
   
  Also I'm buying a dt 770 pro 80 soon I think , I hear the Sub bass is MONSTEROURS ^^


----------



## AxelCloris

So I got tired of dealing with my modmic/Q701 cables. Not the prettiest, but effective at least.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

lol @alex saw a kid on youtube that did something like this on his q701's.  Great idea with adding the mic though.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So I got tired of dealing with my modmic/Q701 cables. Not the prettiest, but effective at least.


 
  they looks pretty smexy to me


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> This brought back fond memories of my 19" sony... bought around 1995-6 and lasted until 2005... that thing weighed a ton, but the colors, and refresh rates were grand. Recent TVs and monitors have been getting better though, but I guess its "artificially" raising the bar through software ( gaming modes ect.) rather than through straight forward technological advances. After using a 27" daily for the past 6-months or so, I'd be hard pressed to want to revert to anything less than 24". Display wise, the next few years should be pretty interesting... its nice to see IPS panels finally hitting the mainstream, as well as advances in OLED and other technologies.


 
   
  I don't really think it's a matter of software enhancements, since anyone with any sense would just turn all that crap off. Less input lag and no screwed-up color reproduction that way.
   
  There seem to be some legitimate improvements with new displays, like better color gamuts and contrast (deep blacks that aren't crushed in the lowest shades) and whatnot in the professional models, but they still haven't fixed some of the central tradeoffs. What's worse is that people don't care about some of those disadvantages, save for the most demanding of gamers-a niche at best.
   
  Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> You have a Sony GDM-FW900? Holy crap, am I jealous of you.
> Out of curiosity, how well does it display a 4:3 picture?


 
   
  I never thought I would own one myself until a few months ago. Atlanta craigslist FINALLY paid off, and I just happened to have the money at the time.
   
  4:3 looks pretty good on it, if you don't mind slight pillarboxing. I sure don't, especially coming from 21" FD Trinitron monitors which were basically 4:3 versions of the FW900 anyway. Just make sure you put up a test pattern so that you get the aspect ratio right when adjusting the image size.
   
  Quote: 





i95north said:


> Nameless you should get with the times and throw that boat anchor over board and get a REAL nice led monitor lol. I'm Kidding really i have the HP-A7217A same as yours and i can't game without it at all. Aside from getting nauseous when playing games on lcd's of any sort they also make my eyes blood shot red after only an hour of playing on them. I gave up using lcd's 3  years back and found my new joy.
> 
> She takes about 30mins to get to her climax and put out like no other monitor can for me and then when she does its oooHH so Heavenly it makes me wanna  cry lol..
> 
> If she breaks down i don't know what i'd do.   I0 years old and she still puts out vivid colors, crisp blacks and crazy nice contrast ratios like a spring chickin..


 
   
  Yeah, if my FW900 were to ever break down, I'd be pretty frustrated in that now I'd have the urge to buy another monitor, and it would most likely be worse (either another 21" aperture grille CRT like the ones I had been using prior, or a 24" 1920x1200 IPS LCD). Part of the relief in owning the FW900 is that I'd never need another monitor as long as this one works.
   
  LCDs don't make me nauseous, but it's pretty easy to notice slower response times and the ghosting/blur that occurs as a result, along with non-native resolution scaling and the inferior viewing angles.
   
  Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Actually your evidence being hrtf's, is how we hear and while they are able to use algorythms to understand how our hearing works but when recording a BINAURAL RECORDING it is as simple as two different mics using crossfade.  If you watch a video of binaural recordings,  It's a dummy head with two mics, one in each ear in an anachoic chamber.  They don't alter it in anyway after it's recorded. Now, what you're talking about is turning a MONAURAL SOURCE into a binaural recording.   That's pretty much how dolby headphone works.
> I don't appreciate your attitude btw.  I was just trying to help you out and you turned hcinto a little tkid all of a sudden.
> imaybe bmy analogy of crt tv's was a soft spot since you have an "unbeatable picture quality" crt but it's obvious that you knew what i meant.


 
   
  Okay, I admit, I re-read my post some time later and thought I came across as a bit too much of a jerk. Being a jerk is not something I ever intend to do, but sometimes I see things that strike a bit too close to home, and that brings out my embittered side like a dam that just burst, the part of me that's frustrated at how things are going these days. Regressions in technology, game design, things like that.
   
  But enough of that; what we have here is a disagreement on definitions and semantics. I adopted the term "binaural" to describe such HRTF-mixing technologies because it was the best way I could think of to describe headphone surround done right.
   
  If you think about it, a binaural recording done with a dummy head just has the dummy head as the HRTF filter, and in this context, I'm not talking so much about the source recordings (dummy head in real life vs. monaural sound effects in a video game with HRTF filters applied) as much as the end experience. Listening to a binaural recording and listening to a game that uses Aureal A3D with a Vortex-based card or OpenAL with CMSS-3D Headphone or Rapture3D's various headphone HRTF mixing modes is a very similar experience in terms of spatial perception over headphones. That's why I describe it as such, especially since a lot of people here on Head-Fi have at least passing knowledge of binaural recordings.
   
  If you have a better term to convey the experience of 3D sound over headphones in video games, please tell me, because I sure can't think of one. "Virtual surround" has too many connotations of emulating speaker systems instead of the way we naturally hear things in all directions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What multi post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I get called a jerk, and an ass all the time. Thats what happens when youre a bit too blunt with opinions. 

That and messages through the internet tend to be taken with unintended perceived inflection. I sound serious even when im joking, so I have to literally add emotis here or there so people understand that im not being serious. 

People are pretty easily offended on the webz. :/


----------



## bowei006

mad lust envy said:


> I get called a jerk, and an ass all the time. Thats what happens when youre a bit too blunt with opinions.
> That and messages through the internet tend to be taken with unintended perceived inflection. I sound serious even when im joking, so I have to literally add emotis here or there so people understand that im not being serious.
> People are pretty easily offended on the webz. :/


Any friend of chuunibyou is a friend of mine. Rant on my friend 

Your opinion is yours. You never said they were the word of absolute anything


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, no. I wont be buying anything anytime soon, though expect a couple of surprises in The coming weeks.


 
  :Q_
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> So I got tired of dealing with my modmic/Q701 cables. Not the prettiest, but effective at least.


 
  Very nice! :Q_


----------



## ronswanson

now Astro is saying mid-December for the standalone mixamp.  this is getting ridiculous.
   
  Maybe I'll just give up waiting and get the DSS2.  I'll be mostly using a bluetooth mic for chat anyway.  Although it would be nice to have wired chat as an option (not to mention official dolby headphone processing).  Is there really no way to chat through a dss2 without using a turtle beach headset?


----------



## seb UK

Thanks... I'm already leaning towards the DT990 from your review and other comments here. My next question is around amping it. I'm not going to be using voice chat much initially, so do i need to amp it? I've gone through this thread and I think you and others have noted that as long as you turn the headset volume down, there is enough juice in the mixamp to run the DT990 well enough (250ohm version I'm talking). THe reason I ask is I'm already a bit over budget and I'd like to avoid getting an amp now if I can. But I don't want to be stuck with a pair of headphones that suck unless I get the amp.
   
  TLDR Will the bass and sound quality still be excellent without the amp, if I'm not using an E9 or equivalent amp?
   
  edit: woops this was supposed to be in reply to MLE


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I think the overall quality and ability to reveal on any of those three would easily put your Logitech speakers to shame... Bass might not be as bone rattling but it'll be more detailed and deeper, there's always other headphones if you're a total basshead.


 
  That's what I'm hoping. At the end of my z5500's life, I wasn't using it that much because of the living situation. It was much more usable when I was studying and at home  So I'm hoping a really flash pair of headphones will be a big step up. I'm using HD25s (DJ headphones) right now...really not designed for gaming or movies at all.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> also, hearing your own voice with the new mixamp is an improvement over the older model which was suppose to do that but it didn't hardly do it unless your mic was right next to your mouth.  They do this because your game draws out your ability to hear your own voice, you tend to yell.  If the mic was less sensitive then i'm down for that as all my friends in my parties have turtle beaches and they all saying i'm yelling because they have their chat volume set to what is good for turtle beaches.  If anything this is better for me because now i'm at a matched level as the other people in my parties.


 
  Improvement for some. Right.
   
  Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> think of lpcm as a thick straw.  It is capable of sending uncompressed but if it's not fed uncompressed then you won't get uncompressed.  Your search for 24/192 is in the right direction for music and movies, unfortunately like we've been trying to tell you, games are just compressed audio.  Some more than others. how much detail you looking for out of a video game anyways lol.


 
  Right. That's with anything. Uncharted is capable of PCM. I'm pretty sure BF3 is too with 5.1. Who is we? Are games compressed? Or is the sound generated? The most detail I can 
  Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> detail and realism as most of the sounds are artificially produced anyways.


 
   
  Right, but not always. MW3 and BF3 are totally different sounding.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Raising and lowering levels of sound between the two sides? That makes it sound like a simple crossfeed, and binaural is so much more than that. Note my mention of Head-Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs) whenever talking about binaural mixes. It's the HRTF simulation that makes it binaural and not just a dumb crossfeed.
> 
> And those recordings are _too_ realistic for video games? I never thought I'd hear about anyone complaining about that sort of thing before. If anything, proper binaural audio in games really adds to the immersion for me, like I'm really there. It's also a very handy competitive advantage. (How many times have I used the phrase "aural wallhack" on here? I lost count...)
> 
> ...


 

 I thought the too realistic bit was funny as well. Right. No thank youuu. Neat though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

seb uk said:


> Thanks... I'm already leaning towards the DT990 from your review and other comments here. My next question is around amping it. I'm not going to be using voice chat much initially, so do i need to amp it? I've gone through this thread and I think you and others have noted that as long as you turn the headset volume down, there is enough juice in the mixamp to run the DT990 well enough (250ohm version I'm talking). THe reason I ask is I'm already a bit over budget and I'd like to avoid getting an amp now if I can. But I don't want to be stuck with a pair of headphones that suck unless I get the amp.
> 
> TLDR Will the bass and sound quality still be excellent without the amp, if I'm not using an E9 or equivalent amp?
> 
> edit: woops this was supposed to be in reply to MLE




It will sound pretty good with the Mixamp alone, but I advise you to save up for an amp later on in the future. Even a Fiio E11 would help. E9/E9K would be better.

If not using voice chat, I wouldn't worry about amping it more for NOW.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

So...amusing777,
   
  Were you able to find a mic solution that works when using a receiver? The one you linked to (Steelseries) is out of stock. I'm thinking that perhaps you might be able to use a y-splitter. Although that will probably negate the advantage of game sound/home audio mixing on the fly. Nevertheless you can change that in the menu settings and find one that suits you. At least I would imagine.
   
  I'm looking at this as a long tern investment. If I'm going to pay upwards to $500 for a solution I'd like it to last as long as possible. The next generation of consoles is just around the corners, and with HDMI being capable of outputting higher quality audio I don't know how long optical connections will be viable.
   
  Let me know how your hunt ends. Like you said, we're in the same predicament.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> So...amusing777,
> 
> Were you able to find a mic solution that works when using a receiver? The one you linked to (Steelseries) is out of stock. I'm thinking that perhaps you might be able to use a y-splitter. Although that will probably negate the advantage of game sound/home audio mixing on the fly. Nevertheless you can change that in the menu settings and find one that suits you. At least I would imagine.
> 
> ...


 

 I thought we might have been!  Yes, I could use a Y-splitter, or EDIT: wait for them to stock more in January. Pair that with a "Modmic" from Antlion, and I'm good to go! Yup, it's pretty handy! Well, in some games maybe, but with a game like BF3, there's just the master audio volume, nothing else. Turning down the master volume does not turn down the incoming chat volume though, so it can be used like that. I am as well. Same here. Yup, that's right. I'm going to buy a used/refurb receiver to go along with this. Hopefully I've answered your questions  Everyone has been helpful to me here, so I'm glad I'm able to offer something in return. EDIT: Page 294 of this thread discussed the audio mixer a bit. http://slickdeals.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-4070734.html <<< This talks about the "interference/hiss" of it, but it seems the problem is mainly with PC's, not consoles, and if it is with consoles... http://faq.steelseries.com/questions/198/What+can+cause+my+Audiomixer+to+emit+a+buzzing+or+static+noise+in+my+headset?  <<< So, all in all, I don't think I'll have a problem with it.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

It's not available in North American but it is in the international (EU) website, go figure.
   
  But let me get one thing straight, you plug the USB end to the PS3 and the 3.5 mm jack to the audio source right (in this case the A/V receiver) right?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> It's not available in North American but it is in the international (EU) website, go figure.


 

 I know =/ Is there no alternative to this thing?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I know =/ Is there no alternative to this thing?


 

 Well... there's always the mixamp   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Wait, do they (Steelseries EU) even ship to USA? 
   
  ...apparently not


----------



## SoAmusing777

Edit: Nope, more stock in January for U.S. peeps.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Shouldn't be an issue unless you use a crappy extension or a ridiculously long one...


 
   
  Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Anytime the wire is separated, these will be a loss of audio quality, but I wouldn't worry about it too much as the signal itself for most games isn't going to be top-notch. That being said the Q701s come with 2 cables, long and ridiculously long.... (3 meter and 6 meter), so unless you're really far, or your setup is in another room, you shouldn't have a need for an extension.


 

 The reason I was asking, you two, is not because I'd be sticking it into an extender, but into that Steelseries Audio Mixer thing, which is kinda like an extender of sorts. Thanks for the answer though.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> It's not available in North American but it is in the international (EU) website, go figure.
> 
> But let me get one thing straight, you plug the USB end to the PS3 and the 3.5 mm jack to the audio source right (in this case the A/V receiver) right?


 
   
  Yes, USB into PS3 and 3.5mm jack to the headphone jack on the receiver.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Well... there's always the mixamp
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  We are sorry to tell you that we can only ship to the US from the US web shop, we can't ship you products from the international shop because those products are located in Europe and they can't ship web orders to the US.
  We will unfortunately not have any more stock until the beginning of January.
  Thanks,
 Web Order Support - I suppose I was wrong. Wait until Jan. then.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I get called a jerk, and an ass all the time. Thats what happens when youre a bit too blunt with opinions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Indeed, the only people who are offended imo, are people who are too full of them selvs... sound is pretty subjective so EVERY one is going to have a slighty different view.
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> Any friend of chuunibyou is a friend of mine. Rant on my friend
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I know right, Bowei's given me a blunt beating a few times, and I'm glad he did <3 otherwise I'd have gotten the Xb1000 over teh Dt 880... and still be suffering with Muddy Music [I also think I'ma ditch my Xb1000 plans all together and go for the Dt 770 Pro 80, it's getting good reviews for Sub Bass, and well I like the 880 so :3 my collection could use another Byer can!]


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Yes, USB into PS3 and 3.5mm jack to the headphone jack on the receiver.
> 
> We are sorry to tell you that we can only ship to the US from the US web shop, we can't ship you products from the international shop because those products are located in Europe and they can't ship web orders to the US.
> We will unfortunately not have any more stock until the beginning of January.
> ...


 
   
  That works out well for me then, I wasn't going to buy it this month anyway. I was probably going to wait until January.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only real headphone I'm interested in now IF and only if the HE-400 replacement I get isn't good, is the K702 65th Anniversary. FWIR, they seem to fix every little issue I had with the Q701, mainly a flat headband, and slightly more body in the bass. That'd make them borderline perfect as the all-rounder I never knew I wanted, lol.

But damn... DAT PRICE. Cheapest I've seen is $450 off a third party seller on Amazon. That's nearly double what I paid for the Q701. :rolleyes:

Lost interest in the T90 after I heard about how it's worse than the DT990, and Philips doesn't seem to wanna sell the Fidelio X1 here in the states. :mad:

If all else fails, I'd probably go back to the HD650. Hifiman has ONE last chance to do me right with the HE-400. I never should have sold my first pair, so it's my partially fault. Still, they have serious quality control issues.


----------



## Impulse

What was wrong with your HE-400?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

impulse said:


> What was wrong with your HE-400?




The right driver had stronger bass, as well as vibrations in that bass. I tried to push it off for a whole month, then I heard a bass test recently, and it was painfully obvious. The right driver had an awesome bass and rumble...one that I wish the left driver kept up with, and sure as hell didn't. They definitely had two different frequency curves, even if they were volume matched. There was way too much of a difference in bass frequencies to dismiss. Even flipping them over, or swapping the cables to the other side, the right driver was always stronger in the bass.

I just sent them in... so I'm without any full-sized cans at the moment. Not that I don't mind the KSC35/75, but still... the HE-400 is in another league... assuming it works properly. I hope to god the replacement HE-400 is without any issues.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The right driver had stronger bass, as well as vibrations in that bass. I tried to push it off for a whole month, then I heard a bass test recently, and it was painfully obvious. The right driver had an awesome bass and rumble...one that I wish the left driver kept up with, and sure as hell didn't. They definitely had two different frequency curves, even if they were volume matched. There was way too much of a difference in bass frequencies to dismiss. Even flipping them over, or swapping the cables to the other side, the right driver was always stronger in the bass.
> I just sent them in... so I'm without any full-sized cans at the moment. Not that I don't mind the KSC35/75, but still... the HE-400 is in another league... assuming it works properly. I hope to god the replacement HE-400 is without any issues.


 
  ... now I want to try the He-400. Have you though of just shelling out the extra cash for the He-500?


----------



## lolwatpear

hey, I was wondering how you guys control your chat volume with ease when using PC headphones on the 360 without an astro mixamp (and ps3 probably).  I mean it's possible by changing the various volumes in game and then increase the volume on the receiver so my teammates can be heard louder, but this can sometimes introduce a hiss.  My old x11 turtlebeach had a master volume/chat volume control inline, which I miss.  I haven't really seen anyone mention this, especially people using ad700 with a pc mic.  Are all these people using astro mixamps, or am I missing something?  I'm using a yamaha receiver as my amp/virtual surround sound.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I know =/ Is there no alternative to this thing?


 
   
  I've been looking at 2+ channel stereo mixers today on amazon. You can pick up a dj style mixer for ~$40. Would probably have less hiss than that, trying to decide what to use myself, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> hey, I was wondering how you guys control your chat volume with ease when using PC headphones on the 360 without an astro mixamp (and ps3 probably).  I mean it's possible by changing the various volumes in game and then increase the volume on the receiver so my teammates can be heard louder, but this can sometimes introduce a hiss.  My old x11 turtlebeach had a master volume/chat volume control inline, which I miss.  I haven't really seen anyone mention this, especially people using ad700 with a pc mic.  Are all these people using astro mixamps, or am I missing something?  I'm using a yamaha receiver as my amp/virtual surround sound.


 
   
  Pretty much everyone is using a Mixamp/DSS I believe. I just picked up a Marantz SR5002 and am going to be trying different solutions soon.
   
  -Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only real headphone I'm interested in now IF and only if the HE-400 replacement I get isn't good, is the K702 65th Anniversary. FWIR, they seem to fix every little issue I had with the Q701, mainly a flat headband, and slightly more body in the bass. That'd make them borderline perfect as the all-rounder I never knew I wanted, lol.
> 
> But damn... DAT PRICE. Cheapest I've seen is $450 off a third party seller on Amazon. That's nearly double what I paid for the Q701.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Ya.  I'm still assuming that K702 65th sound different entirely due to the memory foam pads.  If the pads don't hurt the soundstage at all, I see no reason not to get those over the other x70x - IF they were down in price.  They will hopefully drop some eventually. 
   
  Since I've already modded my Q701 headband and it is a non-issue for me, another option would be to try and track down a pair of the K702/65 memory foam pads and "convert" my Q701 into them.  Again, that's assuming the pads account for 95% of any sound differences....
   
   
  I'm still curious about the Fidelio X1, but not curious enough to import them though.  I'll keep them mind, in case they become available.  They're too sexy looking to ignore.
   
  I wouldn't mind hearing the MA900 either, although I don't expect it to be great for gaming.  It might do better for movies/TV where it's diffuse soundstage would act like a hardware pro logic effect.
   
  I was hoping the AD700x would dampen the driver somehow to add some bass and keep a similar soundstage, but I doubt that has happened.  They actually look even _more _open than the old ADs.  I like the new paint scheme though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mshenay, I have no desire to get the HE500, as it has less bass than the HE400, and weighs A LOT. The HE400 is at the limit of how heavy I want a headphone to be.

Chico...

http://www.accessoryjack.com/headphones/hifi/philips-fidelio-x1-high-fidelity-open-air-headphones-black.html


DO IT! 


Guess, what I just got!

http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/slyr-black-yellow

Just got them in, many thanks to Skullcandy for sending them out to me! I was excited to finally get something in that's affordable for the masses, lol.

First impression (music with the supplied 3.5mm cable to my Fiio E17, and not the included amplifier/chat mixer): They surprise me in that they are on ear, but they are velour, and pretty damn comfy for a pair of supraaural cans, though I do wish they were fully circumaural, as I can see them bothering my ears down the line, though are still much more comfy than any pleather padded supraaurals I have worn. They are also very light. Light headphones... can't have enough of them. 

They seem to be made completely of plastic. I've never had any issues with ANY headphone breaking due to it's build quality or materials used, other than the Turtle Beach Z2, which was... fragile in every way. I'm not even overly obsessive about babying my cans, and I don't see myself having any issues with the build on these, though I'd practice some restraint and not toss them around haphazardly. In any case, Skullcandy has a limited lifetime warranty, which is awesome.

First impression on it's innate sound signature? Warm, pleasant, and bassy, but not overly so. I don't have a LOT of experience with head*SETS*, but all the ones I have tried with the exception of the PC360 have left a bad taste in my mouth. The Slyr is $79.95, and I can already tell the sound signature is better than the PX21, X10, Z2, Siberia V1, and while I don't have many memories of the old A40s (other than that hollow sound), I enjoy these more than all of those. They are more musical and engaging than the PC360, though they don't match in refinement and clarity, which was expected with that large a price gap, as well as being closed vs the open design of the PC360 which is already going to make a major difference.

The balance between bass, mids, and treble is actually pretty good. Sounds free of sibilance so far, the bass is banging but not sloppy (vaguely reminds me of the M50 quantity of bass, less than the Creative Aurvana Live), and vocals aren't lost in the mix, but not forward. Color me pleasantly surprised.

Not sure how they will fare for gaming, but so far, I do like them quite a bit for music. I do have to acclimate myself to the closed design. It's been a WHILE (last one being the Pro 900...and I can't even remember what I used before that, probably the D7000). Gonna have to borrow my stepfather's CAL to have something to directly compare it to.

My concerns are the soundstage, and clarity for competitive gaming. However, this is all very early impressions based on innate sound signature. Assuming positioning is good, I can see them being worthwhile for fun gaming based on what I hear. Also have to test out it's built in amp/mixer which has EQ settings as well. These were made to plug in directly to the RCA out of the 360/PS3, so I'm not sure how I'm gonna be able to attach it to the Mixamp while using the cable with the mixer/amp, but I'll see if I have a female RCA to 3.5mm cable or something similar somewhere.


----------



## Impulse

Interesting, Skullcandy's been upping their game lately... Tho that weird angular design that everyone's copying now is gonna get old fast, heh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer a classical aesthetic, but these look reserved in black compared to their older designs, which is a good thing, IMHO. They don't look like a fashion statement. Just straight business with an SC touch.

I really do wish they were over ear. I will never be used to on ear headphones, lol.


----------



## Impulse

I don't mind new/funky designs... I thought the Aviators were pretty cool even if they felt fragile (tho I'm not sure I'd walk around in them!). That headset just reminds me of like, some Soul and Monster headphones I've seen recently. Sound's what really matters at the end of the day tho!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Aviators are sexy. I didn't mind their pleather either. Just wish the cabling on the Aviators was a bit thicker. Thin cables scare me. I love that the Slyr has a detachable cable, so I could use my own 3.5mm cable, though I dunno where I'd find a third party one with a mic channel. They should pair up easily with the Mixamp after that. The supplied 3.5mm cable is very short, so thank god I have the Mixamp 5.8, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I prefer a classical aesthetic, but these look reserved in black compared to their older designs, which is a good thing, IMHO. They don't look like a fashion statement. Just straight business with an SC touch.
> I really do wish they were over ear. I will never be used to on ear headphones, lol.


 
   
  They don't look as ugly as some other Skull Candy phones, so that's an improvement.
   
  The Plyr headset looks bigger and closer to the Sennheiser HDxxx shape, and possibly circumarual - although still closed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I was more interested in the PLYR 1, as it's the DH-enabled wireless SC headset akin to the A50s, but it's not out yet. The PLYR 2 is stereo only wireless, so I told them not to send me that one as I can't personally gauge their performance, as I don't ever game in stereo.

I'm expecting the A50s soonish.  Though FWIH, the A40s still sound better. Time will tell.


----------



## UPWF

What problems am I going to have if I am using the XBOX>DSS2>AD700 and utilizing my Kinect mic for chat and pumping voice through the headphones when mainly playing FPS (COD games)? Will sound drop out on the headphones when people are talking etc. etc.  Will this work??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I must say, I'm really enjoying the Slyr for music. :eek:

I'm calling it a win for Skullcandy in terms of getting the balance right. The bass is JUST right for me.


----------



## Prava

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mshenay, I have no desire to get the HE500, as it has less bass than the HE400, and weighs A LOT. The HE400 is at the limit of how heavy I want a headphone to be.
> Chico...
> http://www.accessoryjack.com/headphones/hifi/philips-fidelio-x1-high-fidelity-open-air-headphones-black.html
> DO IT!


 
   
  Man, they are expensive over there...
   
  If you are looking into X1... I'd suggest you look here, as if they export... you may be pleased:
   
  http://www.amazon.it/Philips-X1-00-Fidelio-Auricolari/dp/B008ZW2T7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354850836&sr=8-1
   
  I'm very tempted myself to get a pair (I'm european), but I'm not too fond on the idea of not being able to replace the ear pads


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They won't ship to USA though.


----------



## KCxSmacker

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The right driver had stronger bass, as well as vibrations in that bass. I tried to push it off for a whole month, then I heard a bass test recently, and it was painfully obvious. The right driver had an awesome bass and rumble...one that I wish the left driver kept up with, and sure as hell didn't. They definitely had two different frequency curves, even if they were volume matched. There was way too much of a difference in bass frequencies to dismiss. Even flipping them over, or swapping the cables to the other side, the right driver was always stronger in the bass.
> I just sent them in... so I'm without any full-sized cans at the moment. Not that I don't mind the KSC35/75, but still... the HE-400 is in another league... assuming it works properly. I hope to god the replacement HE-400 is without any issues.


 
  Hey what test did you use? I have been thinking the same thing, and want to know for sure. Thanks
   
  cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtrgjCIKntA

Thats a good one,, and the one that really highlighted the difference in rumble and power between the drivers. It was almost all right driver bass.

I basically used songs I was well acquainted with, however.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I just played two hours of CoD4 multiplayer with the Slyr. YES. OH YES. It mates with the Mixamp 5.8 quite nicely. The sound is well balanced with a tilt towardS bass, but in check.

I'm absolutely surprised that a sub-100 dollar headset could sound this nice.

Soundstage is small as expected, but positional cues were easy to pick up, and the clarity was good. I actually believe its better for gaming than I anticipated.

I couldn't get the mixer working alone properly (couldn't get chat to come up on my PS3), but the mic worked like a charm through the Mixamp. It sounds crisp and clear, no issues, though its a bit overly sensitive, so I'd advise on using a wind screen. I'm gonna use the one off my DX mic to see if it subdues its ability to pick up all sounds. Can't use the mic with my room fan on whatsoever.

I did test the eq settings on the Mixer plugged in through my PS3 composite cables, and the SQ did sound pretty good, though I find them unnecessary, as the innate sound sig was right where it needed to be. I can easily say I prefer the *soung sig* on the Slyr over all the head*sets* I have used.

More to come.

*edit: I'm an idiot. The Slyr IS circumaural. Barely, but it is. The trick is, you have to slide your ears into the cups, so the pads go around and over them, instead of on them. If you simply just place the Slyr on your head, the pads will rest on your ears, making them Supraaural/on ear. There is definitely just enough space to cover your ears without the pads resting on them. MUCH better comfort now. :rolleyes:*

Just watched a few TV shows, and the first thing that pops out is the vocals. For a bassy headphone, the vocals are pretty clear. Almost every bassy headphone except the HD650 and ESW9 have distant vocals. So far, im not hearing this distance with the Slyr. Refinement is debatable, but tonal balance sure isnt. The Slyr does many things right. Not forward mids, but not recessed.

I can see these being great for movies and tv.

So far, so very good for the price. I have a smile on my face. Never expected this.


----------



## MadDawg

Ok, I think I have lurked in this thread long enough without posting.  I have a couple of questions:
   
  1.  I have a tritton AX720 mixamp but no longer use the headphones.  Should I try and sell the set and get a mixamp, or is it not worth it to make the change?  I am not a huge fan of the fact that I can't seem to find another puck the for 720 so that I can sell the headphones to a buddy that needs something for budget computer gaming.  I would rather just not have the need for the puck any longer by having something I can plug my headphones/e17 into directly.  I play on a desk, with a XIM edge (mouse/kb), so the wired mixamp would not bother me much.  Is it easier to get a microphone hooked up though the mixamp vs the AX720 puck?
   
  2.  I am thinking about selling my Grado SR80i's, and my HD595's that I use for gaming to get some HE-400s.  Do you think I will find the HE-400's to be inferior to the HD595's for competitive gaming?  What if I tame the bass some from my e17?
   
  Thanks in advance,
  MadDawg


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> That works out well for me then, I wasn't going to buy it this month anyway. I was probably going to wait until January.


 
   
  All right. Let me know if you find any alternatives! 
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I've been looking at 2+ channel stereo mixers today on amazon. You can pick up a dj style mixer for ~$40. Would probably have less hiss than that, trying to decide what to use myself, lol.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Let me know what you find out. I like options! I'd be interested in what you've found so far. Hit me up via PM. The Steelseries doesn't seem so bad though.
    

  Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> hey, I was wondering how you guys control your chat volume with ease when using PC headphones on the 360 without an astro mixamp (and ps3 probably).  I mean it's possible by changing the various volumes in game and then increase the volume on the receiver so my teammates can be heard louder, but this can sometimes introduce a hiss.  My old x11 turtlebeach had a master volume/chat volume control inline, which I miss.  I haven't really seen anyone mention this, especially people using ad700 with a pc mic.  Are all these people using astro mixamps, or am I missing something?  I'm using a yamaha receiver as my amp/virtual surround sound.


 
   
  Steelseries Cross Platform Audio Mixer. They will be back in stock in "the beginning of January." NO ONE has them. Not Ebay, not any retailer, not Amazon, so you'll have to buy directly from the website, unless when they get stock back in, the retailers buy some as well.


----------



## tmaxx123

I have been testing out the 2013 a40 and mixamp pro, and really liked the sound for competitive gaming. Just purchased the mmx 300 and will report back on how the Beyerdynamic compares to the Astro being powered by just the mixamp.

Does anybody think the mmx will need alot more power? Enough to sound bad on just the mixamp?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> I have been testing out the 2013 a40 and mixamp pro, and really liked the sound for competitive gaming. Just purchased the mmx 300 and will report back on how the Beyerdynamic compares to the Astro being powered by just the mixamp.
> Does anybody think the mmx will need alot more power? Enough to sound bad on just the mixamp?


 

 I hope that new Mixamp fares you well. They've been having issues with them. Maybe a recent firmware upgrade has fixed the problems. Any news on that?


----------



## tmaxx123

soamusing777 said:


> I hope that new Mixamp fares you well. They've been having issues with them. Maybe a recent firmware upgrade has fixed the problems. Any news on that?




I have been on the Astro forums, and alot of people are having issues with their mixamp and/or headset. I haven't seen any of those big problems in my testing, luckily. The firmware was just to fix the low sensitivity on the microphone, and some people reported more issues after upgrading their firmware, so I avoided it. PLUS, I was able to troubleshoot the mic such that it operated nicely for me. 

I just hope my mmx300 (coming next week ) isn't underpowered by the mixamp as I already have too much money invested in my gaming setup. Lol


----------



## Makiah S

Just Paid for my Indeed G3! I just hope it get's here without any issues, as Postal Services hate my Country House :[


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MMX300 should be good through the Mixamp alone, but what concerns me is that if its anything like the DT880 32 and 990 32, they WILL want more power, as those two are harder to drive than the 250ohm variants. Not in volume, as they get loud faster, but in driving force. The 990 32 loved the E9K, and improved vs unamped/Mixamp alone. 

Just got the Astro A50 in. Christmas came early!

So far just finished hooking it up, and I have to say... I like the sq on the Slyr more. SO FAR. I only just heard some music when selecting a game on the PS3 XMB, so this shouldnt be taken seriously yet. Paired up chat, and the mic is very, very good from the testing on the PS3 chat tweaking.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> I have been on the Astro forums, and alot of people are having issues with their mixamp and/or headset. I haven't seen any of those big problems in my testing, luckily. The firmware was just to fix the low sensitivity on the microphone, and some people reported more issues after upgrading their firmware, so I avoided it. PLUS, I was able to troubleshoot the mic such that it operated nicely for me.
> I just hope my mmx300 (coming next week ) isn't underpowered by the mixamp as I already have too much money invested in my gaming setup. Lol


 
   
  I was on there too awhile back. That's good. Smart of you. Haha, you have too much money invested in your gaming setup? How much? Lol, mine is nearing a grand, all for PS3 too, haha, even though I've been a smart, thrifty shopper.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Those Slyr's only go down to 32 and the a50 and plyr go down to 20.  Can't help but look at the specifications and think the Plyr models have the same driver as the 2013 a40's and a50's.
  Those Philips are sexy.  Anyone tried the HE-300's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't look at specs. They are usually exaggerated anyways. Listen with your ears, not with your eyes.

The A50s are wireless which is already an uphill battle. Wired headphones always have an advantage in sound quality.


Not enough testing yet (just woke up), but I wasn't thrilled with the 3 EQ presets on the A50s. 3 makes it super boomy and borderline unusable, 1 makes it cold and analytical, and 2 being the most balanced didn't sound right to my ears. If anything, the first preset has the best SQ in that it's detail oriented. However, the Slyr's innate sound signature is well balanced, with a tilt towards fun, and is pleasureable. It has a signature that screams all rounder. It may not possibly be technically superior, but it's more engaging, from the little I heard of both.

You can make a $10,000 headphone and a $20 one, and if the $20 has a better tonal balance, it won't matter how technically perfect the $10,000 one is.

Again, that was a VERY brief impression on the A50s. No real testing yet. I did test the Slyr for hours upon hours. I was immediately pleased with the Slyr though. Music, TV, and gaming all impressed me.

The A50s... I have a feeling I'm only going to like them for competitive gaming with the first preset, but we'll see.


----------



## NumLock

Is the old Astro Mixamp still the best thing to buy for the Xbox 360? I bought a Xbox on Black Friday and I need something for Dolby and chat processing.
  Doesn't matter about the amp on the mixamp since it will be plugged into my Meier Concerto to power my headphones.
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably any Mixamp that isn't the 2013 (haven't heard it yet, but I hear it's hissy). The Mixamp 5.8 is comparable to the old Mixamp with a bit of hiss, and less versatility, though the wireless is good.


----------



## Vader2k

Hey Mad, how would you compare the sound quality of the SLYR to the CAL?


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I was on there too awhile back. That's good. Smart of you. Haha, you have too much money invested in your gaming setup? How much? Lol, mine is nearing a grand, all for PS3 too, haha, even though I've been a smart, thrifty shopper.


 
  Well I am incredibly thrifty as well haha, so retail price wise I have atleast 700 into my gaming setup. I have a smaller tv ( better for competitive play) so thats most likely the main difference between our setups.
  I play ps3 as well  What headset are you using?
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The MMX300 should be good through the Mixamp alone, but what concerns me is that if its anything like the DT880 32 and 990 32, they WILL want more power, as those two are harder to drive than the 250ohm variants. Not in volume, as they get loud faster, but in driving force. The 990 32 loved the E9K, and improved vs unamped/Mixamp alone.
> Just got the Astro A50 in. Christmas came early!
> So far just finished hooking it up, and I have to say... I like the sq on the Slyr more. SO FAR. I only just heard some music when selecting a game on the PS3 XMB, so this shouldnt be taken seriously yet. Paired up chat, and the mic is very, very good from the testing on the PS3 chat tweaking.


 
   
  Cool, thanks for the input! I appreciate it. My subwoofers in my car are wired to 2 ohms, and they need a badass amp to push them, so now that i think of it why would they make the gaming headsets a lower ohm load then the other headsets, if these gaming headsets are supposed to be more versatile. (ie for ipods and a wide variety of sound sources) Wouldn't that just make them harder to push?
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Probably any Mixamp that isn't the 2013 (haven't heard it yet, but I hear it's hissy). The Mixamp 5.8 is comparable to the old Mixamp with a bit of hiss, and less versatility, though the wireless is good.


 
   
  How do we check for the "hiss"? I haven't heard any hiss and I have been doing a good deal of testing on my 2013 mixamp.
  ie.  I have turned the volume up pretty high during silent parts in game, and didn't run into hiss.


----------



## tmaxx123

i see now on the astro forums, that people are talking about the hiss. ill do more testing and report back. on a side note, got delivery confirmation for my mmx300. should be here monday or tuesday. Cant wait


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vader2k said:


> Hey Mad, how would you compare the sound quality of the SLYR to the CAL?






Dont have enough time with the Slyr yet, and im gonna try and borrow the CAL from my stepfather over the weekend. So far, the CAL has a better soundstage and sound quality, but might be more obtrusive in the bass than the Slyr. Stay tuned, so I can form a valid comparison.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> How do we check for the "hiss"? I haven't heard any hiss and I have been doing a good deal of testing on my 2013 mixamp.


 
   
  What headphones are you using? I A/B'd them with the older mixamp I got from a member and an AD700, and the hiss was noticable at about ~60% volume compared with ~90% on the older one. I got that one about 100 pages back before they were officially announced, so maybe they fixed it recently.
   
  -Erik


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> What headphones are you using? I A/B'd them with the older mixamp I got from a member and an AD700, and the hiss was noticable at about ~60% volume compared with ~90% on the older one. I got that one about 100 pages back before they were officially announced, so maybe they fixed it recently.
> 
> -Erik


 
  I am currently using the 2013 A40's. I'll give it a shot in a few when I fire up Black ops 2


----------



## lolwatpear

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Steelseries Cross Platform Audio Mixer. They will be back in stock in "the beginning of January." NO ONE has them. Not Ebay, not any retailer, not Amazon, so you'll have to buy directly from the website, unless when they get stock back in, the retailers buy some as well.


 
   
  Thanks man.  I actually saw this thing a week ago and thought it was weird it was OOS.  Where did you get the info that it would be back in stock in Jan?  Is this thing highly sought out for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have to eat my words. I just got home and hooked up the A50s directly to my desktop PC through it's optical out. MUCH better impression of them. Please disregard the first impression I had of them. They sound *decent* for music, atm, albeit a bit mid recessed, and quite bassy in comparison to the Slyr. Again, brief first (second) impressions, so stay tuned for a more thorough opinion of them in the days to come.

I also got the presets confused. Preset 1 is bass enhanced, preset 2 is flat, and preset 3 is treble enhanced. FWIH, the differences in stereo while listening to music seems to be negligible, or maybe even off. It seems that the presets work only through Dolby Headphone. I'll ask Astro directly, as I can't hear the difference, but it was obvious in DH. I can't even turn on DH while connected to the PC, which I assume is because the Mixamp has to find a Dolby Digital signal to allow it.

Currently have:
Slyr -> E17 (USB) -> PC
A50 -> PC (Optical) 

The main difference between the Slyr and A50 that I hear is that the A50s have a bigger soundstage in stereo (haven't tested them for gaming yet). The Slyr sounds constricted in it's soundstage in comparison, though the actual audio quality is still good, and more focused than the A50s. The vocals are considerably more forward on the Slyr. The A50s's bass is a bit too heavy, personally. Very unlike how I remember the first gen A40s, which was bass light.

Also notice the Astro A50's internal DAC only accepts 16/48 in the sound properties. Not that it matters as the vast majority of content is 16/44 or 16/48 anyways.

First round for music: Slyr over the A50s.

Also wanna mention the SLYR sounds brighter than the A50s. Probably due to the tighter bass and forward mids. 

edit: Just did an update on the A50's transmitter as well as the headset. Wonder what the changes will bring.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dont have enough time with the Slyr yet, and im gonna try and borrow the CAL from my stepfather over the weekend. So far, the CAL has a better soundstage and sound quality, but might be more obtrusive in the bass than the Slyr. Stay tuned, so I can form a valid comparison.


 
   
  Oh, that's right, you mentioned that earlier; my bad.  Cool, looking forward to your final impressions then!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, played a few hours with the A50s on CoD4. The first preset (the bassy one) is absolutely unusable for online gaming. Waaay too dark, boomy, and bass oriented. The second preset worked well enough, and had a good mixture of warmth and balance, still being on the bassy side, and masked the details a little bit. The 3rd preset was colder, more dry, and more detail oriented, which lent itself well for gaming competitively. The 3rd preset did feel like the A40 of old, where the bass wasn't really strong, which I think is a good thing for the A50s.

The A50s have a pretty good soundstage for a closed headphone. Width was very good for a closed headphone, depth wasn't excellent, but positional cues weren't hard to discern. So far, it's a good enough headphone for gaming, but nothing about it 'wows' me. I'm definitely more impressed with the SLYR, even though it loses out on soundstage by a considerable margin. The A50s didn't have any interference or audio issues when gaming, so that's good. I'm also pleased to say that there is a negligible amount of hiss, noticeably less than the Mixamp 5.8. The mic was definitely pretty good, and I wouldn't expect any problems with it whatsoever. So far, the A50s are convenient enough, as it's wireless, the game/voice balance is on the right cup and easy to adjust, and does well enough for gaming, but nothing strikes me as being excellent except the microphone.

My main gripe on the headset itself is the preset switch. It's hard to adjust blindly, so I found myself overly feeling the cup to find the switch. Would be faster removing the headset off the head and seeing the switch. Also, whenever I was adjusting the headset on my head, I'd accidentally touch the volume control or the voice/game adjustment. That's more of a pet peeve, and not a real issue though. I don't think people would be constantly adjusting all this while actually gaming. 

I'll give the A50 a VERY preliminary score of 7 (good) for fun (in Preset 2), and 7 (good) for competitive (in Preset 3), if my opinion of them holds. Good enough for all forms of gaming for those that absolutely need wireless, but not really comparable to the juggernaut headphones in that price range like the K701/Q701/PC360/DT990/HD598. The A50s just can't keep up with audiophile grade headphones.

For the buck, the Slyr's very preliminary scores are 7.5 for fun (very good), and 7 for competitive (good). It has a better tonal balance, clarity in the mids, tighter bass, and more pleasant sound overall. Yes, the A50s have a good soundstage, but the SLYR's surprising quality and affordable cost put it on par for me, so far.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the A40s with the Mixamp 5.8 would have fared even better overall. Again, this is very early impressions with ONE game. I think if they tuned the drivers to be less bassy, they could have a pretty good all rounder headset. I'll be testing them out with other games, so don't take those preliminary scores seriously. This is just how I feel about them at the moment.


----------



## calpis

You don't happen to have Evangelion 1.11 on bluray do you? I loved the sound mix at the beginning during the appearance of the 3rd Angel with all the missiles and helicopters.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Please would someone recommend portable amp for me cause i dont know anything about them i did reasearch and i find the Fiio and the JDS is it good amps , if its not mention 1 for me.


----------



## jude

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I just played two hours of CoD4 multiplayer with the Slyr. YES. OH YES. It mates with the Mixamp 5.8 quite nicely. The sound is well balanced with a tilt towardS bass, but in check.
> I'm absolutely surprised that a sub-100 dollar headset could sound this nice.
> Soundstage is small as expected, but positional cues were easy to pick up, and the clarity was good. I actually believe its better for gaming than I anticipated.
> I couldn't get the mixer working alone properly (couldn't get chat to come up on my PS3), but the mic worked like a charm through the Mixamp. It sounds crisp and clear, no issues, though its a bit overly sensitive, so I'd advise on using a wind screen. I'm gonna use the one off my DX mic to see if it subdues its ability to pick up all sounds. Can't use the mic with my room fan on whatsoever.
> ...


 
   
  You and me both. I put it in the 2012 Head-Fi Holiday Gift Guide in the gaming section.
   
  I use it a lot, admittedly more for telephony than gaming (just because my time for gaming is so limited, and I'm generally on the phone for much of the day).
   
  The SLYR is outstanding for the price.
   
  This is what I said about the SLYR in the guide:
   
   


> *Skullcandy SLYR*
> Closed, on-the-ear headset (around $80)
> www.skullcandy.com
> 
> ...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Indeed, the only people who are offended imo, are people who are too full of them selvs... sound is pretty subjective so EVERY one is going to have a slighty different view.
> I know right, Bowei's given me a blunt beating a few times, and I'm glad he did <3 otherwise I'd have gotten the Xb1000 over teh Dt 880... and still be suffering with Muddy Music [I also think I'ma ditch my Xb1000 plans all together and go for the Dt 770 Pro 80, it's getting good reviews for Sub Bass, and well I like the 880 so :3 my collection could use another Byer can!]


 
   
  I didn't really beat you lol. I was just putting small hints and queue's on getting a ......another headphone basically


----------



## PlayMadeSimple

Have you had any experience with regards to the Audio Technica ATH-AD900? It has always been my belief that in a series of products, higher model number equates to higher performance. Do the AD900s have a larger soundstage than the AD700?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> edit: Just did an update on the A50's transmitter as well as the headset. Wonder what the changes will bring.


 
   
  How did you update it?  USB?
   
  I wonder if the mixamp 5.8 Tx unit can be updated.  When the mixamp 5.8 came out, Astro said they were going to release more accessories/upgrades for it's USB jacks, but they never got around to doing that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





playmadesimple said:


> Have you had any experience with regards to the Audio Technica ATH-AD900? It has always been my belief that in a series of products, higher model number equates to higher performance. Do the AD900s have a larger soundstage than the AD700?


 
   
  No, not larger.  They have slightly more bass and slightly more mids than AD700.  Their soundstage isn't any bigger though, and the AD700 is actually airier and _slightly _bigger sounding mainly because the mids aren't as forward and sound more distant in the soundstage.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Astro has always kept the driver of their headphones pretty far away from your ears.  I think they did this as a benefit for gaming as a more forward and direct headphone can be fun, for me they are also way more easily fatiguing.  Just a thought


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> Well I am incredibly thrifty as well haha, so retail price wise I have atleast 700 into my gaming setup. I have a smaller tv ( better for competitive play) so thats most likely the main difference between our setups.
> I play ps3 as well  What headset are you using?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Good on you! Ohhh man, that's it? Retail price of my stuff tops a grand easy. Lol. Not bragging or saying it's better or what not, but I didn't think I'd get this involved. I have a smaller TV as well. Check my profile for what I have. It's the best setup possible to me though. Nice! Ha, the picture that I'm rocking is what I have. AKG Q701.
  Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> Thanks man.  I actually saw this thing a week ago and thought it was weird it was OOS.  Where did you get the info that it would be back in stock in Jan?  Is this thing highly sought out for?


 
  Welcome. Oh, why? Yeah, it's was a rarer find for me. I contacted their support and Facebook. I guess? lol. I may just end up not getting it and getting an adapter for the Modmic, with that being it. My receiver has Dynamic DRC and DSP, so, it might apply to silent cinema.


----------



## ZeeBAD

Please would someone recommend portable amp for me cause i dont know anything about them i did reasearch and i found the Fiio and the JDS is it good amps , if its not mention 1 for me.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> Please would someone recommend portable amp for me cause i dont know anything about them i did reasearch and i found the Fiio and the JDS is it good amps , if its not mention 1 for me.


 
  You want an amp for what purpose? To increase the volume outputed by your hard to drive headphones?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Can anyone recommend a mic (Antlion modmic) adapter so I can use it on the PS3? I had a cheapy one from Ebay, but it was staticy.


----------



## Mikesin

Just realised that after all this time that I've had my M-Stage, I just never considered connecting it to my Astro Mixamp PRO for my PS3 (via optical). Now i'm thinking how do i go round doing this?
_-Cant think at the moment-.._


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mikesin said:


> Just realised that after all this time that I've had my M-Stage, I just never considered connecting it to my Astro Mixamp PRO for my PS3 (via optical). Now i'm thinking how do i go round doing this?
> _-Cant think at the moment-.._


 
   
  Try it.  I was surprised to find that it actually boosts the soundstage a bit.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The way I have it hooked up is: I have a dual RCA to 3.5mm cord going from the M-stage to the mixamp's Y-splitter.  I have the Y-splitter then go into the mixamps HP jack.  I had to do it like this because I have the FAT monoprice premium cable that doesn't fit in the mixamp 5.8's 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> I didn't really beat you lol. I was just putting small hints and queue's on getting a ......another headphone basically


 
  Ok sure, what you don't tell them about is the big stick you threatened me with lol. But nah, Bowei's suggestions are always good... except his Pro900 one <3 I'm with Mad on the "don't want to mess with S-Logic placement" 
  Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You want an amp for what purpose? To increase the volume outputed by your hard to drive headphones?


 
  Well with the idea of JDS and Fiio In mind. Fiio E11 E6, and JDS cMoy BB are good bass boosting amps. The E11 and cMoy BB [2x 9v] have lot's of juice for driving hard to drive cans. In addition the E12 and E07K [Their newest one] and Jds C421 Ap8620 should be pretty transparent amps, the E12 is lacking a little power and I'm not sure about the c421... there's also Fred_fred_2004's 3 Channels Headphone Amp. In the Sub $100 amp this one was top dog. I hear good things about Fred_fred_2004's amps to so. THere are a few to try, but we do need more details!


----------



## ZeeBAD

I need the amp to increase the volume that outputed from my phone and make it more clear i foud the O2 , E7 , E10 and E11


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





zeebad said:


> I need the amp to increase the volume that outputed from my phone and make it more clear i foud the O2 , E7 , E10 and E11


 
  The O2 isn't really portable lol, it is transportable but xD it's pretty big.
   
  An for volume out of your phone, an E6 might be all you need... but that depends on what Cans your using with your phone, and ofc your phone. Some phones sound pretty terrible others better. But The E7 and E10 are DAC I think and you  not really able to use those with Phones I belive, as they need a USB [full size] out. Try the E11 though, at $50 it's cheap and powerfull. But I find the bass too aggressive for more tonaly balanced cans my self!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Try it.  I was surprised to find that it actually boosts the soundstage a bit.  :basshead:
> 
> The way I have it hooked up is: I have a dual RCA to 3.5mm cord going from the M-stage to the mixamp's Y-splitter.  I have the Y-splitter then go into the mixamps HP jack.  I had to do it like this because I have the FAT monoprice premium cable that doesn't fit in the mixamp 5.8's 3.5mm jack.






I dunno what Monoprice was thinking with this obnoxiously thick 3.5mm cables. It's unnecessary and finicky, in that it just doesn't fit a lot of inputs. They need a straight cable version of this... with some strain relief:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021818&p_id=9564&seq=1&format=1#largeimage






jude said:


> You and me both. I put it in the 2012 Head-Fi Holiday Gift Guide in the gaming section.
> 
> I use it a lot, admittedly more for telephony than gaming (just because my time for gaming is so limited, and I'm generally on the phone for much of the day).
> 
> ...







Thanks Jude, for backing up my claims on the SLYR. Good to know that Skullcandy has made a believer out of more than myself, hahaha. I do agree completely with what you said in your review. I did find some upper mid shenanigans, but it's relatively stable for the most part. I find the mids to be quite good for this type of headphone at this price bracket, and I can see myself using these a lot for TV shows and the like. The mids are well in line with everything, though a little squeezed in by the soundstage.

They just have a very agreeable sound signature to my ears. I haven't been able to test the mic much (admittedly, I almost never use microphones, so as long as my voice comes through clearly, I have no complaints), though my only gripe so far with it, is that it seems a bit too sensitive. I did attach the Dealextreme clip-on mic's wind screen on it, so I'll see if it lessens the sensitivity just enough.

I spent my headphone time with the A50s today, but I really want to go back and mess with the SLYR some more.

And x2 on not using the Mixer. I find it to sound just fine with a 3.5mm cable, that it doesn't really need tweaks to it's sound. I'll still have to find a way to use it just to test the EQ and voice/game balance, but with the Mixamp in my hands, I have no need for the Mixer. I'm seriously impressed with the SLYR, and underwhelmed with the Astro A50's SQ, though it is good. I feel that so far, the A50 compares with stuff like the AX720, which is less than half the price. You can look at it as sounding like a wired headset with the convenience of being wireless, or you can look at it as the performance not quite matching it's price, but paying the premium for the convenience.






chicolom said:


> How did you update it?  USB?
> 
> I wonder if the mixamp 5.8 Tx unit can be updated.  When the mixamp 5.8 came out, Astro said they were going to release more accessories/upgrades for it's USB jacks, but they never got around to doing that.






Yeah, I google Astro A50 update, and Astro had a page where I could download the updates to my PC. Hooked up the TX and A50s, and the update was quick and painless. Didn't see anything for the 5.8... I'll check tomorrow.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno what Monoprice was thinking with this obnoxiously thick 3.5mm cables. It's unnecessary and finicky, in that it just doesn't fit a lot of inputs. They need a straight cable version of this... with some strain relief:
> 
> They just have a very agreeable sound signature to my ears. I haven't been able to test the mic much (admittedly, I almost never use microphones, so as long as my voice comes through clearly, I have no complaints), though my only gripe so far with it, is that it seems a bit too sensitive. I did attach the Dealextreme clip-on mic's wind screen on it, so I'll see if it lessens the sensitivity just enough.
> here I could download the updates to my PC. Hooked up the TX and A50s, and the update was quick and painless.


 
  I have an $8 MediaBridge male to male, that well looks just like the MonoPrice one. I have no issues with the 3.5mm and I happen to like the coiled cables my self!
   
  Also, the SLYR does look nice . For a Gaming head set it might be well worth it ^^. I currently have a crap tastic mike and I'd love a good pair of cans with a nice mike [too sensitive isn't a big deal for me since the mikes I get are always not sensitive enough and too dang quiet]
   
  Still I'm hearing more an more good things about Skull Candy. It's funny at one point, I wanted a pair cuz I heard they where "good headphones" and now... I got $250 byers xD [and I though $50 Skull Candy's where WHOA ALOT" lol


----------



## SoAmusing777

No one? No advice for a Mic (Antlion Modmic) adapter to use on the PS3?


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Ok sure, what you don't tell them about is the big stick you threatened me with lol. But nah, Bowei's suggestions are always good... except his Pro900 one <3 I'm with Mad on the "don't want to mess with S-Logic placement"
> Well with the idea of JDS and Fiio In mind. Fiio E11 E6, and JDS cMoy BB are good bass boosting amps. The E11 and cMoy BB [2x 9v] have lot's of juice for driving hard to drive cans. In addition the E12 and E07K [Their newest one] and Jds C421 Ap8620 should be pretty transparent amps, the E12 is lacking a little power and I'm not sure about the c421... there's also Fred_fred_2004's 3 Channels Headphone Amp. In the Sub $100 amp this one was top dog. I hear good things about Fred_fred_2004's amps to so. THere are a few to try, but we do need more details!


 
  That's because I never recommended the Pro 900. People keep asking me to recommend stuff I don't want to recommend because I haven't heard it. And then 2 pm's later they ask me if it's good again. I don't want to say go get it and be done with that pm as I haven't heard it.
   
  S-Logic isn't hard to place. Just that a weird placement might give you a weird effect.
   
  The E12 is actually the "newest" device that works right now. The E07K is the newest one to be released. 
   
  The AD8692 is in the E07K and E17. And I used to have an O2 with the OPA2228 (that is an option for the C421)
   
  Lacking a bit of power for what? According to the specs and what FiiO said, it should drive summit fi cans such as HD800 with its 500mW+ Output at 32 Ohms loaded.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> That's because I never recommended the Pro 900. People keep asking me to recommend stuff I don't want to recommend because I haven't heard it. And then 2 pm's later they ask me if it's good again. I don't want to say go get it and be done with that pm as I haven't heard it.
> 
> S-Logic isn't hard to place. Just that a weird placement might give you a weird effect.
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry your right, I was getting the E12 and E17 confused, I've not heard anything about the E12. And I;ve only heard that the E17 lacks power. Thanks
   
  Good to hear there is an OPA2228 in the C421, I though it was the OPA2227 [same one in my cMoy BB] and ofc seeing that it's in the O2 is always nice. Although I hear the AD8620 is more transparent... how does the E17 support that claim [although AD8692... must b different]
   
  Still can't go wrong with an E12 or a Jds C421! [I'd love to try the E12 my self. How does it compare to the E11]


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Sorry your right, I was getting the E12 and E17 confused, I've not heard anything about the E12. And I;ve only heard that the E17 lacks power. Thanks
> 
> Good to hear there is an OPA2228 in the C421, I though it was the OPA2227 [same one in my cMoy BB] and ofc seeing that it's in the O2 is always nice. Although I hear the AD8620 is more transparent... how does the E17 support that claim [although AD8692... must b different]
> 
> Still can't go wrong with an E12 or a Jds C421! [I'd love to try the E12 my self. How does it compare to the E11]


 
  IT depends on what the E17 is being used to drive. Some $300+ headphones can be driven with them. But for me, I would want a bit more power
   
  Oh wait, it is the OPA2227, nevermind. 
   
  No idea.
   
  I'll tell you when I get an E12.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 will have more power than the E07k, as is still their best dac/amp. Fiio has stated this themselves. The E07k is an improved E7, and should be priced betwee the E7 and E17.

The E17 has good power for a portable, but I would suggest a stronger amp for 250+ohm headphones.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 will have more power than the E07k, as is still their best dac/amp. Fiio has stated this themselves. The E07k is an improved E7, and should be priced betwee the E7 and E17.
> The E17 has good power for a portable, but I would suggest a stronger amp for 250+ohm headphones.


 
  I know, and that's a shame because I love using 250ohm cans... as portables. My Dt 880 and [soon to arrive] Dt 990 are both 250 ohms and it's a shame the E17 and the E07k both are not quiete strong enough to drive them :/
   
  Still let us know on the E12, sadly too I HATE the E11 with the Dt 880... the bass is too agressive and it takes away from the Lush Mids from the NOS DAC TDA1543 in the HM601, again for my the cMoy is a great pairing. The OPA2227 is  nice and warm, making those mids all the more magical [since the 880 could use a little extra mid magic] and keeping a nice tight bass and smooth highs. Still I'm getting a tube Hybrid... and I hope it makes the Dt 880 even better! 
   
The Fiio amps are nice with Darker Cans! I love the E11 on my XB700s


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> I know, and that's a shame because I love using 250ohm cans... as portables. My Dt 880 and [soon to arrive] Dt 990 are both 250 ohms and it's a shame the E17 and the E07k both are not quiete strong enough to drive them :/
> 
> Still let us know on the E12, sadly too I HATE the E11 with the Dt 880... the bass is too agressive and it takes away from the Lush Mids from the NOS DAC TDA1543 in the HM601, again for my the cMoy is a great pairing. The OPA2227 is  nice and warm, making those mids all the more magical [since the 880 could use a little extra mid magic] and keeping a nice tight bass and smooth highs. Still I'm getting a tube Hybrid... and I hope it makes the Dt 880 even better!
> 
> The Fiio amps are nice with Darker Cans! I love the E11 on my XB700s


 
  I don't have XB700's, I only used to have XB500's momentarily 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E17 will have more power than the E07k, as is still their best dac/amp. Fiio has stated this themselves. The E07k is an improved E7, and should be priced betwee the E7 and E17.
> The E17 has good power for a portable, but I would suggest a stronger amp for 250+ohm headphones.


 
*And........*
   

   
   
*BAM!!*
   

   
   
*Here comes FiiO's new E12.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I doubt I will get my hands on the E12, as im quite happy with the E17. I mainly have it for easier to drive headphones. The SA31 is huge and stationary, and I don't always wanna reach for the controls, so I happily just use a long usb cable for the E17 and keep next to me when watching tv shows, and overall general laziness.

I dont ever like carrying anything on the go, so a portable dac/amp is basically just transportable for me. Something I'd use for a laptop, and not for a pocket device.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I doubt I will get my hands on the E12, as im quite happy with the E17. I mainly have it for easier to drive headphones. The SA31 is huge and stationary, and I don't always wanna reach for the controls, so I happily just use a long usb cable for the E17 and keep next to me when watching tv shows, and overall general laziness.
> I dont ever like carrying anything on the go, so a portable dac/amp is basically just transportable for me. Something I'd use for a laptop, and not for a pocket device.


 
  You could also use an Extra Long headphone cord... I have a 15foot 3.5mm extension my self and it's pretty nifty... since NOTHING is more tahn 12 feet from my pc in my room <3 
   
  and yes xD love that E12 picture series u have for us, but again. If the E12 sounds like the E11... I'm not to interested


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That extra long cable won't have volume adjustment. Also, never get cables with built in volume controls. They tend to degrade sound quality, have channel imbalances, etc.

I prefer having the device next to me. Im constantly adjusting volume, etc, depending on what im listening to.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I doubt I will get my hands on the E12, as im quite happy with the E17. I mainly have it for easier to drive headphones. The SA31 is huge and stationary, and I don't always wanna reach for the controls, so I happily just use a long usb cable for the E17 and keep next to me when watching tv shows, and overall general laziness.
> I dont ever like carrying anything on the go, so a portable dac/amp is basically just transportable for me. Something I'd use for a laptop, and not for a pocket device.


 
  On the go, I don't actually need the function of the E17 or E07K.
   
  I got sent a new Oblanc gaming headphone half a month ago for review. Oblanc is a new company started under the brand of SYBA USA.... SYBA is a very large cheap OEM that mass produces a lot of stuff. If anyone is a realist and understands the world of cheap technology OEM and being a big player there, you would know that SYBA has quite the money. Go like "Oblanc" on Facebook and you will see that they have spent A LOT of money on marketing.
  I was suprised they had so much money. 
   
  Anway, the model I got the NC-1 is $30 and decent. It's sound musically is similar to a JVC HARX700. A bit  flat cardboard sounding(not a flat responce,I mean flat like flat soda) but with a HUGE mid bass bump and good bass extension. Obviously they designed it so that the bass from explosions shakes your heard. I can say that they succedded. The bass is very low quality and has no quality but really explodes. Soundstage, and spatial cue's and other stuff are close to non existent. 
   
  However at $30, it comes with a Microphone, and splitter. The headphone's headphone jack itself is a triple pronged TRS jack 3.5mm as usual. Left, right, ground, mic. The typical ones. But the splitter seperates it for computers that have a seperate mic input. Which is quite a smart idea. The mic is not that good. It is actually a very UN-sensitive mic. Wearing it normally, it had a slightly hard time picking up my voice. Not too bad but anybody on the other end may have a hard time hearing you over the gun shots and airplanes flying overhead(BF3).
   
  However with that said, at $30 with shipping already included in the price of that. I can't realy say its too bad or anything. I guess an overal score of 8/10 would be fine for the one I got. Because...$30. It is not fatiguing, and is decently comfortable. And is quite decent for music purposes at that price as well. I won't say recommend as I haven't tested enough consumer sub $100 headphones but I'll just say its fine I guess.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> You could also use an Extra Long headphone cord... I have a 15foot 3.5mm extension my self and it's pretty nifty... since NOTHING is more tahn 12 feet from my pc in my room <3
> 
> and yes xD love that E12 picture series u have for us, but again. If the E12 sounds like the E11... I'm not to interested


 
  I honestly don't think it will but hey, I won't be comparing them. I don't have the E11.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That extra long cable won't have volume adjustment. Also, never get cables with built in volume controls. They tend to degrade sound quality, have channel imbalances, etc.
> I prefer having the device next to me. Im constantly adjusting volume, etc, depending on what im listening to.


 
  That reminds me of my SkullCandy days with my wire with built in volume control.
   
  Same, I don't keep a static volume.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. 30 dollars gets you a KSC75 and some external mic.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno. 30 dollars gets you a KSC75 and some external mic.


 

   
  oh right.
  Yeah there is that......hmmmm
   
   
  But these are closed. Mainstream gamers want closed. 
   
  I'll do some music listening right now with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say the Sennheiser HD201, but then, that comfort... ugh.

I haaaaaate on screen keyboardz so much. Sigh...


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd say the Sennheiser HD201, but then, that comfort... ugh.
> I haaaaaate on screen keyboardz so much. Sigh...


 
   

  The un-mentionable HD201's have been mentioned to me. Unforgiveable. (and yes, I have a large amount of self saved emotion faces from various anime's)
   
  Using them for gaming in my opinion would kill my ears before I finish the tutorial of the game. I have large ears by the way.
   
   
   

  (Yes that is indeed the E07K ANDES in the background)
   

   
   
  Listening to some music with them right now. I have already done so a while back of course but I forgot exactly how it sounded and I can only say not bad. One of the biggest problems for sub $30 headphones is fatigue physicaly due to weird comfort problems(even soft padded headphones can develop some weird ones) and sonic fatigue as well. These have none of that. However due to the pads used and their closed design, my ears do get hot. But then again, this happens with the majority of headphones when one first gets and or uses them anyway from what I find. 
   
  Very smooth sound. It doesn't attempt to do things it can't do. For example some headphones destroy your ears by trying to give you that high freq and then failing or ones that try to give you an airy treble but then you end up with a harsh mess. Thankfully these don't try that.
   
  Pulled back mid range. This was probably done to give a larger virtual soundstage to the user. The low freq doesn't exactly spill into the mids but the sub bass and mid bass do have slight interference with the mids. Not a lot. 
   
  They aren't too hard to drive but not exactly very sensitive and easy either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are they as big as they appear to be? They look nice, tbh. Pleather aside, they look comfy.


----------



## tmaxx123

I can confirm the "hiss" on the new mixamp. Mine seems to kick in at about 70% volume and gets loud at about 90%. I listen at about 20% while gaming, even competitively. And up to 50% watching movies. So i won't be hearing this hiss in and of my applications....


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Are they as big as they appear to be? They look nice, tbh. Pleather aside, they look comfy.


 
  Nope haha. They are smaller than the Q701's if that is the question.
  Comparison pic:
   

   
   
  Taking them off with audio playing I have to admit....these 50mm drivers produce sound that is as loud as if they were open headphones after taking them off. Seriously...
   
   

   
  You can see the plushy top headband in the first pic just above and the actual pads here. Even with my big ears, they fit my ears in it so they are over ears. My ears don't touch the driver shield so its fine.
   
  A bit of pressure is situated on the top of my head. I'm going to guess due to design. No matter how I place it, I get it. That is a bit sad.
   
  Now that I am listening to hip hop and Rap I gotta say. These actually sound better with pop. And not with rap. Especially if it is bass heavy.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno what Monoprice was thinking with this obnoxiously thick 3.5mm cables. It's unnecessary and finicky, in that it just doesn't fit a lot of inputs. They need a straight cable version of this... with some strain relief:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021818&p_id=9564&seq=1&format=1#largeimage


 
   
   
  They have a straight version of that, sort of:
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021816&p_id=9764&seq=1&format=2
   
  Looks good to me. 
   
  They also have new slimmer dual RCA to 3.5mm cables that look good.  JDS Labs actually sells the exact same cable on their site as an optional interconnect:
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021817&p_id=9767&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, so...unorthodox? 

Okay, so im here at work messing with the KSC35 and 75. No matter how I slice it, the KSC35 is definitely superior, even with the KSC75 clips. Last time I tried the comparison, I hadn't really bent the KSC75 clips, and the KSC35 sits further away that the 75 with the 75's clips.

Now that the metal is bent and the 35s are closer... I must say, they are definitely worthwhile over the 75s. Warmer, fuller, and nicely balanced. I think they still sound better with the less comfy 35 clips, but they best the 75 regardless of which clips I put on the 75. The 35s with the 75 clips sounds more balanced than the stock 35 plastic clips, though with a smidge less bass presence.

In short, the KSC75's clips are not great in stock form. You absolutely must bend them inward, to put the drivers closer to your ears, or you lose a bit of SQ and bass especially.

The 75s with the 35's clips sounds a bit congested. I'd say, stick to the 75's stock clips.

So, again, the KSC35 is undoubtedly better with either clips, you just have to mess with the 75's clips a bit to get them to sound proper.


----------



## chicolom

For those that game in stereo (Yuck!) I occasionally see this XJacKer thing which is some sort of stereo amp for xbox 360.  The website is really annoying though, and to "ExTREME!!!!" for my eyes.  There always shouting at you in the product description.
   
  It reminds me of this > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs
   
  Quote: 





> "Offers a dynamic range so wide that it's beyond human hearing (5Hz~50kHz @ 32 Ohms)"
> 
> NEW! Fully-adjustable bass boost delivers all the bass you can handle! Because all your bass are belong to you!
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The website is so annoying that it puts me off from trying to figure out what the hell it is (the pictures suck on the website).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think they contacted me a while back, and wanted to send me one of those for review, but I declined because you know I dont game in stereo, and couldn't form a valid opinion on them. Better to decline than to try and play in a way I never do. Im as much a rookie in stereo gaming as anyone else. Very little experience, aside from when I play on my portable systems. 

 Which is another reason why the SLYR's mixer isnt gonna do me much good. The Mixer has a 3.5mm input, so it should work with all types of standard headphones, not just the SLYR. You'd need a Y cable for audio+mic, which isnt supplied with the SLYR. It should work like the X Jacker, though I think the SLYR's mixer isnt really an amp. I have to check.

Btw, thanks for the 3.5mm cable link. Dunno how I missed that. I actually own the 3.5mm to RCA monoprice cable, which is the one I use fo the ODAC to the SA-31.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> No one? No advice for a Mic (Antlion Modmic) adapter to use on the PS3?


 
   
  Using a mixamp or no?
   
   
  Wired mixamp (except original v1 mixamp) just plug a usb cable from the mixamp to PS3.
   
  For the wireless mixamp:
  http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp-5-8-ps3-adapter
   
   
  Otherwise, I thought something like this worked for generic setups:
  http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355033029&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+headset+adapter


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Good on you! Ohhh man, that's it? Retail price of my stuff tops a grand easy. Lol. Not bragging or saying it's better or what not, but I didn't think I'd get this involved. I have a smaller TV as well. Check my profile for what I have. It's the best setup possible to me though. Nice! Ha, the picture that I'm rocking is what I have. AKG Q701.


 
   
   
  nice nice, I didnt think i would get this involved either. haha i gotta slow it down


----------



## Noks

Has anyone heard something new about the astro Mixamp pro being sold as a standalone unit soon? Only word i have is a post on Astro's forum from a mod saying early december. I don't want to shell out 249.99 for the whole thing when i already have a pair of AD700,


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Using a mixamp or no?
> 
> 
> Wired mixamp (except original v1 mixamp) just plug a usb cable from the mixamp to PS3.
> ...


 
  Nah, a Yamaha RX-A710 receiver. Yeah, I've seen that before. Hopefully it doesn't make the mic sound like crap. I had a cheapy one from Ebay.
   
  Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


>


 
   
  Dunno why it's not showing up, but, meeee too. I'm very excited though. This is as best as it gets on the PS3 in terms of console gaming (for me).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just saw your sig. You're welcome. 

Glad the Q701 is working out so well for you. I really loved them. So much, that I'm contemplating getting the K702 65th Anniversary. For real.


----------



## b43k

Quote: 





obazavil said:


> and.. Mad Lust Envy plays COD on xbox 360 (i'm one of the rare species that only have BO in PS3)


 
  Make me another one of those rarities....although I do have a 360.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats an old post. I only own a PS3 now. 

CoD4 and BLOPS PS3 player. Though I only own CoD4 now.

Anyone that wants to add me...

Sin_Crimson

Just lemme know that youre from head-fi with your head-fi name.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Dunno why it's not showing up, but, meeee too. I'm very excited though. This is as best as it gets on the PS3 in terms of console gaming (for me).


 
  For sure! My mmx 300 will be here Monday, according to tracking.  Stoked to try em out.
   
  But after a long gaming session with the A40's tonight, I am not sure how much better it can get. For competitive play the new a40's do everything i need them to do very well. 
   
  I will report back


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





noks said:


> Has anyone heard something new about the astro Mixamp pro being sold as a standalone unit soon? Only word i have is a post on Astro's forum from a mod saying early december. I don't want to shell out 249.99 for the whole thing when i already have a pair of AD700,


 
  They were supposed to go on sale by the end of November. Now they are saying by the new year. I would take the estimates with a grain of salt though. It's a big mess over there at Astro. (check their facebook) lol
   
  But one of the more respectable mods on the forums said that the new mixamp will be on sale for 129.99 when it does release.


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Well that's a shame. I had a PS3 a bit more then a year ago and had to sell it, now im planing on buying a new one to plug in my PC monitor but it has no speakers, so i was hoping the Astro would take care of my sound. Anyone has cheap alternatives in the meantime?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In the meantime? Fiio E5 + RCA female to 3.5mm male cable. Hook up the ps3 composite/component audio cable to the rca female, and the 3.5mm end to the E5, then your headphones to the E5. Should be around $20-25 for everything. I had to get a rca to 6.3mm cable and use a 3.5mm adapter, since Radio Shack didnt have an Rca to 3.5mm cable, and I didnt wanna order the cable online.

Make sure the cable is stereo. Seen some mono ones, so be careful.

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/756798/StarTechcom-6in-Stereo-Audio-Cable/?Channel=Google&mr:trackingCode=3A92675F-316C-E011-9898-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=22395426956&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=20224360076&cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Googlepla-_-Technology+Networking_Cables-_-756798


Something like that. Newegg has one thats cheaper.


----------



## b43k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thats an old post. I only own a PS3 now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Cool, I'll add you.  My PSN is XcoNVic73d
   
  Xbox Gamertag: b43k
   
  Open Feint (lol!): b43k
   
   
  ...gotta set up my sig soon...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To all ps3 gamers who enjoy some shootan', get CoD4! Its cheap as hell nowadays, and if you live in the states, gamestop usually has used copies for like $10.

I wanna shoot your faces!


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In the meantime? Fiio E5 + RCA female to 3.5mm male cable. Hook up the ps3 composite/component audio cable to the rca female, and the 3.5mm end to the E5, then your headphones to the E5. Should be around $20-25 for everything. I had to get a rca to 6.3mm cable and use a 3.5mm adapter, since Radio Shack didnt have an Rca to 3.5mm cable, and I didnt wanna order the cable online.
> 
> Make sure the cable is stereo. Seen some mono ones, so be careful.
> 
> ...


 

 Mm, i live in Canada, so with shipping it runs me for about 40$. Wonder if its worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, 40 dollars just for shipping? Forget that.


----------



## calpis

Yeah, even brick and mortar stores that price gouge, you'd be able to pick that up for $9. $2-$5 would be the actual ideal price. That type of cable isn't actually something that is commonly carried in most retail stores but just check your local electronics store or super mega retail stores in the electronics section.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Whatever the Canadian equivalent to Radio Shack is... 

As I mentioned earlier, an RCA to 6.3mm cable would work too, as long as you also have a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter. I have a feeling that would actually be more commonly found.


----------



## ronswanson

soamusing777 said:


> No one? No advice for a Mic (Antlion Modmic) adapter to use on the PS3?




Get a Bluetooth mic and duct tape that sucker to your headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

Phew! Gone a week, and I had seriously like 20 pages of catching up!
Btw, my tube/class A amp had arrived around the time of my last post, and I'd received a replacement tube and PS for it. Mshenay, just a little warning: tube amps are a bit finicky compared to SS like a FiiO. Since the included tube shattered in transit, I had to re-bias the amp by ear (not the ideal method) for the new tube, and in general tube amps have a fatiguing + annoying buzz for a while when they first power on, so give them 10-25 minutes to warm up before you judge... Unless you want to hear crap, the be totally impressed once everything's flowing! *Why* did you get a bravo V3 with the iffy 3band eq instead of the Indeed G2 with upgraded components and power supply?



mad lust envy said:


> I just saw your sig. You're welcome.
> Glad the Q701 is working out so well for you. I really loved them. So much, that I'm contemplating getting the K702 65th Anniversary. For real.




Mad, for the sake of the guide, my offer still stands in case you want to compare the Q701 side-by-side with the 65th anniversary or something. I haven't sold my AD700 yet, so I have a temporary backup. Btw, it's awesome that you're getting review samples now!!! I'm like... ready to work as a janitor by now.



axelcloris said:


> So I got tired of dealing with my modmic/Q701 cables. Not the prettiest, but effective at least.




I think it's pretty! I want to figure out how to do that; with my surround processor sitting next to me, I have a sloppy pool of cables around my feet. Especially when I use my preferred wired controller, have my AD700 on hand for A/B testing, and the wire going to my Tube/class A amp.

Have you noticed any ill-effects from having the cable all twisted? I would imagine it would create an almost antennae effect, or I'd at least be worried about crimping the cable. If there have been no problems, I probably will study your picture and see if I can figure out how you tied it! Personally, I'm more skilled at untying knots than making them


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm almost sure the main difference sonically between the Q701 and K702/65 is the pads. Need someone who has both to swap the pads... seriously.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





noks said:


> Has anyone heard something new about the astro Mixamp pro being sold as a standalone unit soon? Only word i have is a post on Astro's forum from a mod saying early december. I don't want to shell out 249.99 for the whole thing when i already have a pair of AD700,


 
  Apparently mid-December..so any day.
   
  The only other place I can find to buy these is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/120997609987?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c2c050203
   
  I might get a DSS2 since I want my new surround set up for Xmas


----------



## tiestolife

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I just saw your sig. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Did u see the thread about the k702 anniversary? Basically there is no difference vs the normal version except the colors..


----------



## ronswanson

seb uk said:


> Apparently mid-December..so any day.
> 
> The only other place I can find to buy these is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/120997609987?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item1c2c050203
> 
> I might get a DSS2 since I want my new surround set up for Xmas




I'm very close to doing the same thing. But which is better, DSS2 or Recon3D?


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> ...The 75s with the 35's clips sounds a bit congested. I'd say, stick to the 75's stock clips.
> So, again, the KSC35 is undoubtedly better with either clips, you just have to mess with the 75's clips a bit to get them to sound proper.




Hmm, at some point I should get one of the two to compare to my KSC50... I've gifted the 75 a few times and tried them out but never A/B'd them, tho I've always wondered why they KSC50 were replaced or put out of production so quickly (relatively speaking).

The 50's certainly look more attractive or less cheap, clip is very different too, tho not necessarily any better or worse... The hinge on them helps a little with keeping them close to the ear. These days I mostly use them to bike or run.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> I'm very close to doing the same thing. But which is better, DSS2 or Recon3D?


 
  I have spent tonnes of time researching DSS2 vs Mixamp, but haven't really looked at the Recon3D!
   
  It would be cool if someone on this forum owned all three and could do a real scientific test


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tiestolife said:


> Did u see the thread about the k702 anniversary? Basically there is no difference vs the normal version except the colors..




I been reading otherwise. Been reading that its a noticeable improvement over the past akgs. Hell, they honestly dont need much of an improvement over the q701. I was absolutely thrilled by them, and they just lacked a little bass for my personal taste. I hear the 65th is more bassy. Im more interested in the flat headband and memory foam pads.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I just saw your sig. You're welcome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Added you on PS3. Same PSN as my name here. Yeah, thanks! Btw, are there any alterations I can make to the Q701's? I know a cable, but the cable is already great. What about the headband? A memory foam type of thing would be nice. Any suggestions? Yup, they are! So thanks. All right all right. Also, why, when I quote or maybe it's the multiquote, does this website repeat the 1st one?
  Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> For sure! My mmx 300 will be here Monday, according to tracking.  Stoked to try em out.
> 
> But after a long gaming session with the A40's tonight, I am not sure how much better it can get. For competitive play the new a40's do everything i need them to do very well.
> 
> I will report back


 
   
  Oh, sweet  Enjoy! Oh, you can do better than A40's, lol. That's great though!


----------



## Evshrug

D





seb uk said:


> I have spent tonnes of time researching DSS2 vs Mixamp, but haven't really looked at the Recon3D!
> 
> It would be cool if someone on this forum owned all three and could do a real scientific test




Define scientific? Mad had the opportunity to try out the Mixamp, Recon3D USB (not the internal soundcard), and a JVC headphone surround processor side-by-side. An A/B/C test, if you will. His impressions are posted in the guide.

Both I95 North, NamelessPFG, and I have the Recon3D now, so feel free to ask us for impressions or read my Recon3D impressions among Head-Fi's reviews. Personally, I feel the Recon3D has good processing and is nice to use both with my Xbox and with my Mac/Windows PC via USB, though it's amp section isn't super impressive (it's powered only by USB after all). Soundstage and dynamics scale up impressively with a good headphone amp, I really enjoy my Class A tube amp with the Recon3D and my Q701s.

*On another, slightly off topic note! THIS IS AN AMAZING DEAL FOR A PCI-E SOUNDCARD FOR PC GAMING RIGHT NOW:*
http://www.jr.com/creative-labs/pe/CLN_SB1270/


----------



## Impulse

The Ti HD has actually been even cheaper at times, Best Buy was clearing them out at one point for like $55 (which is kind of absurd!)... Been seeing it pop up often for $100 ever since Creative started overhauling their line.

Almost grabbed one myself (tho they were more like $75 in Puerto Rico), but I ended up with an STX for the amp and headphone/speaker switching... 

It's rather dumb that the Ti HD auto mutes the speaker output when headphones are plugged in the back, makes discrete outputs kind of pointless. I think they addressed that on the new Zx, haven't read much about it tho.


----------



## SoAmusing777

FOR SALE: Yamaha Aventage RX-A710 7.1 Receiver/Amp/Astro Mixamp Alternative/Upscaler/A lot more, lol. This the best and perfect fit for people wanting to use this for surround sound. Just check the link for details - http://tricities.craigslist.org/ele/3467048235.html


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Anybody know how I can put something up for sale on here other than putting it here? I'm getting a Yamaha Aventage RX-A710. I wanna sell it for $390 plus whatever shipping will be to a location. It's lightly used (so like new). It's missing the optimization mic, manual (there is an online one), and the dipole antenna (for radio, but you can get this anywhere for around $5). This would be great for someone how has a speaker setup as the YPAO optimization mic will get everything automatically setup for you with 3d sound (I read the whole thing about it on Yamaha, amazing stuff) or someone with a pair of good headphones using the Silent Cinema Virtual Surround (up to 7.1). It has dynamic DSP and DRC so it might balance out the chat volume and game volume on it's own. 17 settings to customize that Virtual surround as well. Someome PM me if interested. This is a steal!


 
  I would think this thread is the best choice.
  http://www.head-fi.org/f/6552/source-components-for-sale-trade


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would think this thread is the best choice.
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/6552/source-components-for-sale-trade


 
   
  Thank you sir.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would think this thread is the best choice.
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/6552/source-components-for-sale-trade


 

 Well, actually, it says I'm not allowed to post in the classifieds.


----------



## bowei006

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Well, actually, it says I'm not allowed to post in the classifieds.


 
  You need more posts to do that.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





bowei006 said:


> You need more posts to do that.


 
   
  I thought as much. Thanks.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Btw, was just playing around with my Creative Extigy USB soundcard hooked up through Optical to my PS3. I set output to two channel LPCM at 88.2khz, then there is this CMSS button on it (which has the EAX Advanced HD right above it). You know what? It sounds pretty great through these Q701's. I plugged the headphones into the headphone port on the front. It seems that I'm able to pinpoint people's locations. Crazy.


----------



## Evshrug

Yup, that's supposed to be the point of CMSS-3D. I didn't know creative made another external device that can accept Optical input, so that's cool. How much was the Extigy? Why are you passing on the Yamaha Receiver, if it's such a great deal?

Nobody is allowed to sell things on Head-Fi until they establish their reputation over time and posts. It's meant to discourage this site from being polluted by spam and scam business from taking over. Overall I'm grateful, though it was a pain to wait.

If the Ti HD version was available for $55, I would go into debt to buy it. As things are, with my Recon3D USB processor, I'm content to wait until the income starts accumulating.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yup, that's supposed to be the point of CMSS-3D. I didn't know creative made another external device that can accept Optical input, so that's cool. How much was the Extigy? Why are you passing on the Yamaha Receiver, if it's such a great deal?
> Nobody is allowed to sell things on Head-Fi until they establish their reputation over time and posts. It's meant to discourage this site from being polluted by spam and scam business from taking over. Overall I'm grateful, though it was a pain to wait.
> If the Ti HD version was available for $55, I would go into debt to buy it. As things are, with my Recon3D USB processor, I'm content to wait until the income starts accumulating.


 
   
  This is an old soundcard. I'm not sure if it's the 3D version. I think it's just CMSS. Idk. Yeah, it was made popular by the HPA2. It cost me $50 on Craigslist (like new). That's a secret  I don't wanna post it publicly. I thought so. Right. Yeah, but I think this is the only was to get CMSS on the console besides the Recon3D. Unless there is a way to hook up the PS3 HDMI to a sound card on a computer, and get the audio from that with headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I thought as much. Thanks.


 
  Have you advertised the Yamaha on your local Craigslist?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Have you advertised the Yamaha on your local Craigslist?


 
   
  Funny, because I altered the post to a CL link.


----------



## SoAmusing777

So, hmm, that has me curious, is there a way to get CMSS-3D on PS3?


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> So, hmm, that has me curious, is there a way to get CMSS-3D on PS3?




I didn't think so, but maybe... Optical is how the Recon3D connects to PS3 and Xbox, if you've seen any other optical input soundcards those should work. For example, an internal soundcard like the one I posted has an optical input, theoretically anything that accepts a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 signal over optical input should work, though there may have to be some settings craziness to get it working, and an internal soundcard would of course require your console and PC to be running at the same time. People like Nameless PFG already know the answer, and more fully than I.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yup, that's supposed to be the point of CMSS-3D. I didn't know creative made another external device that can accept Optical input, so that's cool. How much was the Extigy? Why are you passing on the Yamaha Receiver, if it's such a great deal?
> Nobody is allowed to sell things on Head-Fi until they establish their reputation over time and posts. It's meant to discourage this site from being polluted by spam and scam business from taking over. Overall I'm grateful, though it was a pain to wait.
> If the Ti HD version was available for $55, I would go into debt to buy it. As things are, with my Recon3D USB processor, I'm content to wait until the income starts accumulating.


 
  I never knew that... although I never started selling till I hit about 1,000 posts. Now I've sold 2 things [one guy never got back to me after paying e.e] and bought 2 things... looking to sell my Zune as well.
   
  I might get a Mix Amp, when I get my Wii U. As monster hunter would love some serious Surround sound! Gatta here those baddies creeping up behind me :3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mshenay said:


> I never knew that... although I never started selling till I hit about 1,000 posts. Now I've sold 2 things [one guy never got back to me after paying e.e] and bought 2 things... looking to sell my Zune as well.
> 
> I might get a Mix Amp, when I get my Wii U. As monster hunter would love some serious Surround sound! Gatta here those baddies creeping up behind me :3




Might wanna rethink that. The Wii U uses LPCM, not Dolby Digital, as well as it not having an optical output.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=500865

The only way(s) to get virtual surround on the Wii U is most likely through receivers with HDMI inputs that convert multi-channel PCM to virtual surround. Probably Silent Cinema, and other non-DH surround.

I wonder what Astrogaming and other headset makers are gonna do with the Wii U.

This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wonder what Astrogaming and other headset makers are gonna do with the Wii U.


 
   
   
  From the list upcoming titles: 2013 Releases
   
  Probably not too much - 3 out of 4 platforms work with their product and the Wii U seems a bit below the tipping point to demand a hardware overhaul.


----------



## calpis

That external exitgy box is one of the very very very few boxes (that aren't full sized receivers) that will take 5.1 over optical/coaxial. The point of that thing was to use your cheap 5.1 pc speaker setup with consoles and dvd players.Things like that just aren't made anymore which makes that external exitgy sound card so damn rare, I know this because a few years ago I was looking for it to use instead of a receiver and to use my 360 with some cheap logitech speakers for 5.1 gaming.
   
  Also, I'm not entirely sure you can just plug a 360/PS3 to the optical input on a soundcard and expect it to give you a 5.1 signal, it'll instead be knocked down to 2.0/1. This is me just going off of memory when I wanted to do this before and found out the only thing that could do it was that external extigy. This was about 6-7 years ago so things might have changed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> From the list upcoming titles: 2013 Releases
> 
> Probably not too much - 3 out of 4 platforms work with their product and the Wii U seems a bit below the tipping point to demand a hardware overhaul.




I don't expect any device any time soon, but perhaps for the next holiday season, there may be something. It's actually really disappointing that these companies have not yet made one with HDMI inputs, and LPCM conversion.

Now that I have some contact with Skullcandy, I could sway them into making the Astro side make something... 

Ideally:

Multiple HDMI inputs (at least two): If not, one HDMI input with an included HDMI switcher (at least 2 in to 1 out)

One HDMI output to the TV: though since devices tend to be their best when they have their own inputs and specific color settings, I'd personally buy an HDMI splitter for all my devices, where one goes to the TV, and one to the Neo-Mixamp.

LPCM to Dolby Headphone converter: It's time.

DTS to Dolby Headphone (Blu-Rays): The JVC/Victor SU-DH1 has one, so I don't see why the Mixamp can't have one either. Companies can't keep thinking Dolby Digital is as universal as they seem to think it is. Blu-Rays are mostly DTS, and not every Blu-Ray device has a Bitstream Mix option like the PS3.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I didn't think so, but maybe... Optical is how the Recon3D connects to PS3 and Xbox, if you've seen any other optical input soundcards those should work. For example, an internal soundcard like the one I posted has an optical input, theoretically anything that accepts a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 signal over optical input should work, though there may have to be some settings craziness to get it working, and an internal soundcard would of course require your console and PC to be running at the same time. People like Nameless PFG already know the answer, and more fully than I.


 
   
  I thought the Recon3D was a USB soundcard? Why not HDMI? I think there is a card that has HDMI output as well. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed  Anyway, consult this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/45 I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I honestly think this is the best audio you can get.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> That external exitgy box is one of the very very very few boxes (that aren't full sized receivers) that will take 5.1 over optical/coaxial. The point of that thing was to use your cheap 5.1 pc speaker setup with consoles and dvd players.Things like that just aren't made anymore which makes that external exitgy sound card so damn rare, I know this because a few years ago I was looking for it to use instead of a receiver and to use my 360 with some cheap logitech speakers for 5.1 gaming.
> 
> Also, I'm not entirely sure you can just plug a 360/PS3 to the optical input on a soundcard and expect it to give you a 5.1 signal, it'll instead be knocked down to 2.0/1. This is me just going off of memory when I wanted to do this before and found out the only thing that could do it was that external extigy. This was about 6-7 years ago so things might have changed.


 
   
  Yup, the thing is though, it's only 5.1 DD. Yeah, it is rare  Why would that happen? I would think I could use a card that has HDMI input and output. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed  Anyway, consult this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/45 I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I think this is as best as it gets.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno what Monoprice was thinking with this obnoxiously thick 3.5mm cables.


 
   
   
  Look at this beast of a cable!  LOL!
   
  100 feet of Monoprice premium...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is a scary cable, lol. I do love the thickness for RCA interconnect, but NOT for 3.5mm cables, lol.

Sitting here listening to music through tha CAL. I forgot just how impressive they truly are. No question... they are just that damn good. The SLYR is good as a headset, and the sound quality is pretty good, but the CAL is audiophile grade at an affordable price. The CAL is more open sounding, and clearer. They SLYR sounds slightly boxed in and stuffy next to the CAL.

This is a direct comparison. The SLYR is still impressive, and thicker sounding, but it goes to show you that a headphone sound quality at a similar price range will tend to be improved on what headsets offer. Still, I really like just how good the SLYR sounds even next to the superior CAL, and I find them more comfy due to the velour pads. Can't dismiss the convenience of an all in one headset. I also feel that I could abuse the SLYR more than the CAL. The CAL is shiny and all, but I feel they are more fragile. The SLYR looks like it can take a hit better. The cable on SLYR is significantly better than the flimsy one on the CAL, not to mention, you can always replace the SLYR's cable. The CAL doesn't have a detachable cable.

Soon enough, I'll make comparisons for gaming.

The Creative Aurvana Live really is such a steal at their price range. No question.


----------



## UPWF

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't expect any device any time soon, but perhaps for the next holiday season, there may be something. It's actually really disappointing that these companies have not yet made one with HDMI inputs, and LPCM conversion.
> Now that I have some contact with Skullcandy, I could sway them into making the Astro side make something...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm sold on that idea! I think most people on this thread that are willing to shell out for higher end headphones would get this.
   
  I love my mid range 5.1 speaker setup at home, but for those times when the wife, kids, neighbors for some, etc... don't want to hear 80-100 decibels of pure gaming and movie enjoyment and headphones are the go too, a streamlined solution such as this would work. Maybe us console owners will get a W when the new gaming boxes are selling with upgraded DAC's and games pumping out True Dolby HD and DTS HD. 
   
  MLE thank you for putting this thread together and all that has contributed. Great read and very informative.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sitting here listening to music through tha CAL. I forgot just how impressive they truly are. No question... they are just that damn good.
> 
> The Creative Aurvana Live really is such a steal at their price range. No question.


 
   
   
  Yes. 
   
  My CALs don't get used too much since I don't really need a closed headphone.  But every time I do use them, I'm surprised how good they are.  I can't justify selling them when they're so nice for the price.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Thirded. Only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you.
> 
> Everyone here has already seen the back-and-forth between me and MLE on CMSS-3D Headphone's viability for PC gaming. I hear all the cues and it sounds very much 3D to me at its best, he thinks it's a crappy stereo upmix. Meanwhile, we both agree that Dolby Headphone is very effective at what it does, even if I think it falls short compared to any game with proper 3D positional audio that CMSS-3D Headphone, Rapture3D, Aureal A3D, etc. can leverage the positional data of to offer more than a virtual 7.1 speaker system's worth of imaging.
> 
> ...


 
   
  This is a really old quote, I know, but I had a question, which I will present a bit later in this post. Yes, only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you. So, knowing that CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone (which is actually an ERTF [which is unrealistic]), THX TruStudio, DSS2 whatever, Silent Cinema, and all the other random companies' version of virtual surround sound, is all GENERIC/AVERAGE HRTF, why the hell hasn't anyone checked out something that is CUSTOM/USER TAILORED, like uhh, MyEars!? It works because those are all averages, albeit different averages, so some work better than others. Totally agreed. I would think the best setup would be (since this is a console thread) a PC card that supports HDMI in and Out (only Auzentech that I know of) coupled with MyEars, to a high end receiver (Yamaha Aventage line), then obviously out to an OLED monitor (when it's available) or an IPS LED LCD for now, with Audiophile grade headphones plugged into the receiver. Who's with me? I've been doing hella research to find this out, but this seems to be the answer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I typed Fidelio X1 on Amazon, and almost had a heart attack when a headphone came up for $280. Then I saw it was the L1, not the X1. 

To update on the SLYR vs CAL, I 'm actually digging the SLYR a little more at the moment. The voices in music are easier to pick up on the SLYR. The SLYR is a more aggressive sounding headphone, in a good way. The CAL is more refined, but more diffused sounding, like more blended in. I like that the SLYR puts the voices in it's own layer. Hard to explain. The bass is almost considerably more present on the SLYR, but not in an obnoxious way. The A50's bass is more obtrusive by a bit. The CAL has less bass, but still sounds warmer for some reason.


----------



## SoAmusing777

AUREAL MONSTER VORTEX 2 Sound Card PCI w/driver CD BA88DL30A-03 (New condition) - Somebody tell NamelessPFG I just picked this up  I only got it due to some of his posts. Hard to find as well, quite rare. I did an Ebay, Amazon, All of Craigslist, and Google shopping search. This seemed to be the best option as it was the most recent card. I'll keep this handy for when I build my Windows 9x machine  I'll need help getting the rest of the parts (not building it as I will have someone do that for me) as I do not know much about computers.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> I thought the Recon3D was a USB soundcard? Why not HDMI? I think there is a card that has HDMI output as well. EDIT: Auzentech makes a card with HDMI input and output. The thread I'm about to post has an older version card that has this (not sure if this is the only company), but apparently, the sound card be output to the receiver, as Head-Fi user Renugaid does, which would mean that, I think, that if the ps3 was plugged into it's input, I could have the same setup? Yeah, things have changed  Anyway, consult this thread: silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons I think Nameless would be impressed with this as he misses the binuaral 3d audio. I honestly think this is the best audio you can get.



I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. When I said soundcard with optical input that I just posted, I meant the post with the link on it to the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD for $110. My Recon3D is indeed a USB soundcard, but Creative also made/makes Recon3D-branded internal sound cards (that I wouldn't recommend).

I don't know if there are any HDMI input sound cards, and wasn't Auzentech bought out by Creative? Maybe not. I just looked up the Ti HD page and Asus Xonar STX page, neither mention support for console Optical input, but I could've sworn I saw something like that yesterday...



soamusing777 said:


> This is a really old quote, I know, but I had a question, which I will present a bit later in this post. Yes, only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you. So, knowing that CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone (which is actually an ERTF [which is unrealistic]), THX TruStudio, DSS2 whatever, Silent Cinema, and all the other random companies' version of virtual surround sound, is all GENERIC/AVERAGE HRTF, why the hell hasn't anyone checked out something that is CUSTOM/USER TAILORED, like uhh, MyEars!? It works because those are all averages, albeit different averages, so some work better than others. Totally agreed. I would think the best setup would be (since this is a console thread) a PC card that supports HDMI in and Out (only Auzentech that I know of) coupled with MyEars, to a high end receiver (Yamaha Aventage line), then obviously out to an OLED monitor (when it's available) or an IPS LED LCD for now, with Audiophile grade headphones plugged into the receiver. Who's with me? I've been doing hella research to find this out, but this seems to be the answer.




I started reading the MyEars site, looks interesting, especially if they come through with the other platforms like consoles and iPad, but the critical question is can their user-listening calibration tests accurately create a custom HRTF? We DID mention custom HRTFs in a wistful, that'll-never-be-cost-justifiable way when talking about the Smith Realizer that uses inner-ear microphones for a custom HRTF, for a cool $1k. Can a PC software patch improve on generic HRTF? Hmmm well... maybe. Thing is though, it's still 2D surround, a circle of sound direction rather than a 3D sphere, and as it happens I and others have the 2D surround that works well already, without adding extra overhead to the PC (which is irrelivant to Console gaming, IF you can figure out how to send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal to the PC, and don't mind having your computer next to your console and running up your electric bill).

Something like MyEar may be worth a try if you can sort out all the logistics, but I have to wait until I hear user experiences. -->poverty


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear. When I said soundcard with optical input that I just posted, I meant the post with the link on it to the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD for $110. My Recon3D is indeed a USB soundcard, but Creative also made/makes Recon3D-branded internal sound cards (that I wouldn't recommend).
> I don't know if there are any HDMI input sound cards, and wasn't Auzentech bought out by Creative? Maybe not. I just looked up the Ti HD page and Asus Xonar STX page, neither mention support for console Optical input, but I could've sworn I saw something like that yesterday...
> I started reading the MyEars site, looks interesting, especially if they come through with the other platforms like consoles and iPad, but the critical question is can their user-listening calibration tests accurately create a custom HRTF? We DID mention custom HRTFs in a wistful, that'll-never-be-cost-justifiable way when talking about the Smith Realizer that uses inner-ear microphones for a custom HRTF, for a cool $1k. Can a PC software patch improve on generic HRTF? Hmmm well... maybe. Thing is though, it's still 2D surround, a circle of sound direction rather than a 3D sphere, and as it happens I and others have the 2D surround that works well already, without adding extra overhead to the PC (which is irrelivant to Console gaming, IF you can figure out how to send a 5.1 or 7.1 signal to the PC, and don't mind having your computer next to your console and running up your electric bill).
> Something like MyEar may be worth a try if you can sort out all the logistics, but I have to wait until I hear user experiences. -->poverty


 
   
  Oh. Why would you not recommend them? A quick google search found an older Asus card with both HDMI input and output. I wonder if there are any other cards like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auzentech Nope. They just collab. They are a Korean company. Definitely. I saw some reviews where people had posted success with MyEars. I think a high end sound card with Audiophile grade headphones really helps in the calibration process though. Also, they have a trial version, but the main version is only $20!! I think they have a refund policy too. Why not give it a go? Poverty? Lol. Yup, that's ridiculous. Too much money and too much of a pain. Law of diminishing returns. It sure seems like it to me! Yes, it is 2D, because in the end, it's about the developers mixing the sound. It needs not to be a software renderer, but something using OpenAL/Direct3DSound/ect, where the sound can be coordinated in a 3d plane rather than a darn 5.1 or 7.1. Actually, if it's still 2D, why are they touting 3D sound (much like Creative with CMSS-3D)? Is this because they have something similar to MaxroFX and the Elevation filter?
   
  Why didn't you tell me you replied on this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons/60 ? I was getting a whole big reply prepared for you. That thread is very important. It has SC DSP settings, CMSS-3D headphone setup, and what not. I have a reply in there you should read as well.
   
  Either way, would I not be able to get a sound card that has HDMI IN and OUT, and run the PS3 to it (you mentioned figuring out a way to send, well, the Auzentech accepts 8channel LPCM at 24bit/192khz [you need to read the overview, specs, and features tab here: http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_hometheater_hd.php]), then out to the TV, or better yet, a receiver, while getting the benefits that the sound card has to offer by way of CMSS-3D or better yet, MyEars? This seems to be the best option since some games are software rendered not using OpenAL/Directsound3D/or something with 3d coordinates. I think I could create a minipc (like that of FalconNorthWest's Fragbox [but definitely cheaper]), maybe on a mini-ITX motherboard, just for this purpose, but also keep the components for PC gaming if I ever got into it. Just why, is this card so darn expensive when it came out in 2008 or 09?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Might wanna rethink that. The Wii U uses LPCM, not Dolby Digital, as well as it not having an optical output.
> http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=500865
> The only way(s) to get virtual surround on the Wii U is most likely through receivers with HDMI inputs that convert multi-channel PCM to virtual surround. Probably Silent Cinema, and other non-DH surround.
> I wonder what Astrogaming and other headset makers are gonna do with the Wii U.
> This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital.


 
  I know that's really a shame. Monster Hunter it moving off Play Station and onto Nintendo Systems FINALLY, but as awesome as that would b in 5.1 I doubt it will have support -.- 
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> AUREAL MONSTER VORTEX 2 Sound Card PCI w/driver CD BA88DL30A-03 (New condition) - Somebody tell NamelessPFG I just picked this up  I only got it due to some of his posts. Hard to find as well, quite rare. I did an Ebay, Amazon, All of Craigslist, and Google shopping search. This seemed to be the best option as it was the most recent card. I'll keep this handy for when I build my Windows 9x machine  I'll need help getting the rest of the parts (not building it as I will have someone do that for me) as I do not know much about computers.


 
  ooh sounds nice


----------



## rabinzero

"This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital."
   
This would be awesome!!!!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





rabinzero said:


> "This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital."
> 
> This would be awesome!!!!


 
  for real man!


----------



## Heretic817

Envy - This guide gets better and better every time I stop by. Truly awesome!
   
  Anybody here game with Q701 and Mixamp? If so, do you use an additional amp?
   
  The original E9 seems like an OK option. The newer E9K er whatever has different connections.
  I want a headphone amp to beef signal power to the Q701's. I love these cans but I can tell sometimes they are a lil power starved. 
   
  Any suggestions for amps under $300?
   
  I wish the damn ODA would come out already.


----------



## tmaxx123

I just got my mmx 300's and am loving them! they are ALOT more detailed and accurate sounding than the 2013 a40's. I will post up more impressions as I play around with them more. The only problem is that I have the wrong y-splitter for my mixamp. I need the 2 female to 1 male, and I have the 2 male to one female. 
   
  Will this splitter on ebay work? Or should I go straight from astro? I figure I can find a splitter for cheaper somewhere in the U.S. preferrably so im not waiting a long time to get it.
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-3-5mm-Jack-Combo-Headphone-Microphone-Splitter-Cable-for-i-Phone-Phone-Tablet-/271115231784?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3f1fba2228
   
  or what about this one 
  http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Headphone-Splitter-Separate-Controls/dp/B0016CFZQ0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1355163057&sr=8-7&keywords=microphone+headphone+splitter
   
  in other words, does the microphone and headphone jack have to be specified as being different? Or is any 3.5mm female going to work both ways whether if it has an input going into it or an output going out.
   
  let me know what you guys think


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Might wanna rethink that. The Wii U uses LPCM, not Dolby Digital, as well as it not having an optical output.
> http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=500865
> The only way(s) to get virtual surround on the Wii U is most likely through receivers with HDMI inputs that convert multi-channel PCM to virtual surround. Probably Silent Cinema, and other non-DH surround.
> I wonder what Astrogaming and other headset makers are gonna do with the Wii U.
> This sucks, but it may also be a blessing. We may finally get these companies to make devices like the Mixamp to accept HDMI and convert all forms of multi channel sources to virtual surround, and not just Dolby Digital.


 
   
  It'll be about time if we can get some headphone surround processors with HDMI input and 5.1 LPCM decoding. So far, that leaves us with only a few options:
   
  -old A/V receivers with Dolby Headphone support (Harmon Kardon AVR 254/354 look promising)
  -Smyth Realiser A8 (Do you really have $3,000+ to spend on one of these, let alone access to a theater where you can make a recording?)
   
   Quote:


soamusing777 said:


> This is a really old quote, I know, but I had a question, which I will present a bit later in this post. Yes, only your own ears will decide what sounds best to you. So, knowing that CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone (which is actually an ERTF [which is unrealistic]), THX TruStudio, DSS2 whatever, Silent Cinema, and all the other random companies' version of virtual surround sound, is all GENERIC/AVERAGE HRTF, why the hell hasn't anyone checked out something that is CUSTOM/USER TAILORED, like uhh, MyEars!?
> 
> It works because those are all averages, albeit different averages, so some work better than others. Totally agreed. I would think the best setup would be (since this is a console thread) a PC card that supports HDMI in and Out (only Auzentech that I know of) coupled with MyEars, to a high end receiver (Yamaha Aventage line), then obviously out to an OLED monitor (when it's available) or an IPS LED LCD for now, with Audiophile grade headphones plugged into the receiver. Who's with me? I've been doing hella research to find this out, but this seems to be the answer.


 
   
  Very good question there. I recall Sensaura Virtual Ear allowing for some adjustments (it was featured on a few Crystal Semiconductor-based sound cards and some Analog Devices SoundMAX integrated audio codecs 'til Creative bought them out and likely used the tech to help develop CMSS-3D Headphone), but so far, you can't really get anything personalized without shelling out the big bucks for a Smyth Realiser.
   
  I did see an article posted here some time ago about constructing a personalized HRTF simply by taking three photos of the user's head-one from the front, and one for each side. If someone were to implement that in a commercial surround processor, it could allow for personalized 3D audio, seeing as it's not constrained to simulating a surround system like the Realiser, and hopefully at a much more affordable price since all you'd need is a camera.
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> AUREAL MONSTER VORTEX 2 Sound Card PCI w/driver CD BA88DL30A-03 (New condition) - Somebody tell NamelessPFG I just picked this up  I only got it due to some of his posts. Hard to find as well, quite rare. I did an Ebay, Amazon, All of Craigslist, and Google shopping search. This seemed to be the best option as it was the most recent card. I'll keep this handy for when I build my Windows 9x machine  I'll need help getting the rest of the parts (not building it as I will have someone do that for me) as I do not know much about computers.


 
   
  Nice. The neat thing about most Aureal Vortex chipset cards is that unless you're looking for something really rare like the Aureal SQ3500 Turbo (a not-quite-made-it-to-market variant of the SQ2500 paired with a DSP daughterboard), you can generally find them dirt cheap if you're not too picky beyond "must have an AU8830 chip on it".
   
  They also have some pretty good Sound Blaster Pro emulation for DOS games. (Just don't use it in conjunction with the Unofficial 98 SE Service Pack; for some reason, installing that and leaving the SB Pro emulation enabled results in a BSoD. Said pack also gives me a few issues with some other games, so I don't bother.)
   
  While you're planning this Win98SE build (don't see any reason to use Win95 or WinME in its place), you might want to do some research over at VOGONS, since it's a forum full of people who build retrogaming rigs.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Anybody here game with Q701 and Mixamp? If so, do you use an additional amp?
> 
> The original E9 seems like an OK option. The newer E9K er whatever has different connections.
> I want a headphone amp to beef signal power to the Q701's. I love these cans but I can tell sometimes they are a lil power starved.
> ...


 
   
   
  I do, and I use the M-stage.  I actually get enough volume from the mixamp alone, but the M-stage seems to improve the soundstage a little.  I tried the E9 too, but it didn't seem to improve anything.
   
  I'm not sure I'd recommend getting a $250 amp just for the purpose of double amping, but If you use it for music too, then it's more justifiable.
   
   
  The ODA is the only other amp that I'm curious to try, so I wish it would come out too.


----------



## Heretic817

I find the mixamp does provide enough volume when turned up to about 75% which is fine. As you and others warned me though if I turn up the mic volume for chat it falls off a cliff. All this is fine though as I still use my Razer Charcharias (er something) for "headset" gaming which I now rarely do anyway.
   
  I think I will replace the Razer's with PC 360 at some point.  On the fence with this though because I was not thrilled with the sound of the HD 558's I tried out. I digress.
   
  Trouble is when I plug into the headphone jack on my PC speakers I have to turn the volume knob alarmingly close to full. Full out is just a bad place for any amplifier. 
   
  All I know is that I love my Q701's. Sound, comfort, quality build, I just love em'. I feel like they need something with a lil more chutzpah to be their best.
   
  Come on ODA!!!!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I find the mixamp does provide enough volume when turned up to about 75% which is fine. As you and others warned me though if I turn up the mic volume for chat it falls off a cliff. All this is fine though as I still use my *Razer Charcharias* (er something) for "headset" gaming which I now rarely do anyway.


 
   
  How are the Razer Charcharias compared to other stuff?  I've read they are better than some of the other headsets...


----------



## Heretic817

With a grain of salt here. For a headset the Razer's are quite good. Figure in the price and I was very pleased. I listened to my friends Triton's (which have since fallen apart) and they sounded like crap. TBH the Razer's sound kind of bloated compared to my Q701's which should not be much of a surprise. Overall they do gaming and music well. Where they really shined for me was sound stage.
   
  I agonized over what headset to get for months and read a thousand headset reviews before choosing the Razer's. It was my first use of Dolby Headphone with an open can but I spent weeks whipping them off of my head to check if the sound was also coming out of my speakers. Once on AC2 on a crowded street I got startled when I thought someone was in my house but it turned out to be a passerby on the street in the game. Oh, and they are oh so comfy. 
   
  In short, the Razer's with Dolby Headphone was shockingly good for a headphone noob like me and is the reason I got the Q701's because I want to see how good it can get.
   
  I am sure they would fail to please many an audiophile but if anyone wants a relatively cheap "headset" I would recommend them easily.


----------



## Heretic817

@Chicolom
   
  ooooOOOOoooo. I see you have the PC 360. I so want to try those. I have almost bought them but for $250 I am worried.
   
  There was just something about the HD 558's that I did not like. They sounded very good but I did not feel like the $180 was justified. I have not tried even a 1/4 of the stuff most of the head-fi community has so I always say *take my opinions lightly*.
   
  However, if you asked me what I though I would say it sounded like everything was well separated and balanced and pretty good but like there was a blanket hung between me and all that sound. I dunno what to call it but It was not for me. I am much happier with my Q701's.
   
  Still I wouldn't doubt anyone who said you would be hard pressed to find a better "headset" then the PC 360's. Which is what nearly everyone tells me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> @Chicolom
> 
> ooooOOOOoooo. I see you have the PC 360. I so want to try those. I have almost bought them but for $250 I am worried.
> 
> ...


 
  Removing the black rubber tape from inside the cups of the HD558 might make them sound better to you (like more open).


----------



## Heretic817

Maybe so but I returned them next day. Did not want to take my chances. I know many love em'. Just was not my thing.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> @Chicolom
> 
> ooooOOOOoooo. I see you have the PC 360. I so want to try those. I have almost bought them but for $250 I am worried.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I_ had_ the PC360.  There is a lot I like about the PC360.  It has an _excellent_ soundstage, good detail, and a pretty balanced sound.  It's the best _headset_ I've heard.  
   
  The Q701 is more fun/immersive though.  It has a thicker warmer sound, and stronger bass. 
   
   
  If you already prefer the Q701 to the HD558, I probably wouldn't bother with looking at the PC360 (I'm going to assume that the HD558 and PC360 sound at least fairly similar).


----------



## chicolom

FYI, right now Amazon has a "Like New" PC360 for ~$139, which is definitely the lowest I've ever seen them. 
   
  That's a great deal on a really nice headset.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I_ had_ the PC360.  There is a lot I like about the PC360.  It has an _excellent_ soundstage, good detail, and a pretty balanced sound.  It's the best _headset_ I've heard.
> 
> The Q701 is more fun/immersive though.  It has a thicker warmer sound, and stronger bass.
> 
> ...


 
  I guess I need to keep looking for a good deal on an M-stage. Maybe if I mention the ODA a thousand times that guy will finally release the thing. jk. last time I bring it up. 
   
  Sometimes I swear man.... I work at an electronics manufacturer in R&D. I should make my own damn amp. I know my boss (the pres.) would let me prototype some stuff here. Just sayin'


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Anyone remember if anyone has posted using the akg k272 hd's with dolby?  I called up a speaker shop today to schedule an appointment to listen to some speakers and we started talking about headphones.  The owner deals high end speakers and was swearing by these for regular music mixed with a dragonfly dac.  He said they were seriously easy to drive and no need for an amp.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It'll be about time if we can get some headphone surround processors with HDMI input and 5.1 LPCM decoding. So far, that leaves us with only a few options:
> 
> -old A/V receivers with Dolby Headphone support (Harmon Kardon AVR 254/354 look promising)
> -Smyth Realiser A8 (Do you really have $3,000+ to spend on one of these, let alone access to a theater where you can make a recording?)
> ...


 
   
  Yup, that'd be nice. Okay, still gonna try out the MyEars sometime though.Yeah, I remember that article, man, we should start a startup company! Even if funds were limited, isn't there a website/company that will allow multiple people to donate to a cause? Come on, this is how Facebook started! I can see it now! WaveTracing is back! Console Virtual Surround is a thing of the past now with complete 3D audio. Mannn. Anywho, on to reality... Yup, I got it for $37 with shipping!! Do you have a card? Btw, is this card capable of A3D 3.0? I heard Halo maybe used this? Oh man, lol, good to know. Sounds great. Thanks! Still, I'm interested in the PS3 to Auzentech to Receiver bit.


----------



## SoAmusing777

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654624979682289/3/ - Can anybody "decode" what that guy on the forums quoting the DICE dev was saying about the audio, and how this relates to software rendering vs hardware accelerated and 3d audio please?
   
  http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=844394&page=5 - Also, this is how to force your X-fi to use OpenAL on Borderlands 2. I'm curious if this can be done for all games somehow? Regardless if CMSS-3D is using OpenAL or Direct3Dsound, isn't it still a generic HRTF? Or does it change, becoming all fitting once it's able to be hardware accelerated?


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I do, and I use the M-stage.  I actually get enough volume from the mixamp alone, but the M-stage seems to improve the soundstage a little.  I tried the E9 too, but it didn't seem to improve anything.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd recommend getting a $250 amp just for the purpose of double amping, but If you use it for music too, then it's more justifiable.
> 
> ...


 
  Chico,
   
  If you use the M-Stage how do you get Dolby through the Mixamp. It seems like you would need to use a 1/8" mini to RCA between the Mixamp out and M-stage in. My god!
  BNC > RCA > Banana plug > Co-ax > 1/8" > Alligator clips > 1/4". Too many connectors is a signal quality nightmare.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Okay, screw the Auzentech, wow, that's had some horrible support, hardware issues, and reviews. Chiefly, check the Amazon and Newegg reviews for this card. No phone number or information other than a support ticket? LOL. Maybe there's one other card that has HDMI in and out. Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3. I guess these things are a "thing" of the past as Graphics cards are now able to bitstream and what not. Yeah, so I don't get to use CMSS-3D on console (it's not available in any shape or form that I know of), but maybe I can try MyEars.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> I just got my mmx 300's and am loving them! they are ALOT more detailed and accurate sounding than the 2013 a40's. I will post up more impressions as I play around with them more. The only problem is that I have the wrong y-splitter for my mixamp. I need the 2 female to 1 male, and I have the 2 male to one female.
> 
> Will this splitter on ebay work? Or should I go straight from astro? I figure I can find a splitter for cheaper somewhere in the U.S. preferrably so im not waiting a long time to get it.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-3-5mm-Jack-Combo-Headphone-Microphone-Splitter-Cable-for-i-Phone-Phone-Tablet-/271115231784?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3f1fba2228
> ...


 
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004SP0WAQ works great.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Okay, screw the Auzentech, wow, that's had some horrible support, hardware issues, and reviews. Chiefly, check the Amazon and Newegg reviews for this card. No phone number or information other than a support ticket? LOL. Maybe there's one other card that has HDMI in and out. Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3. I guess these things are a "thing" of the past as Graphics cards are now able to bitstream and what not. Yeah, so I don't get to use CMSS-3D on console (it's not available in any shape or form that I know of), but maybe I can try MyEars.


 
  wow grats to you man. Getting  a sound card for your rig! I'm just decdeing to buy a external DAC and live with that xD


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> wow grats to you man. Getting  a sound card for your rig! I'm just decdeing to buy a external DAC and live with that xD


 
   
  Yeah, possibly! It seems everything I get is rare, lol. I own a Soundblaster Extigy, Psyko Carbon (which I'm returning now in favor of virtualized with the Q701's), and a 60GB PS3 (hardware ps2 version/4usb ports) that never had the warranty seal broken (which I sent to http://www.fixmypcdoctor.com/product.php?productid=17&cat=4&page=1) for preventative measure. Mine is totally custom. The HDMI port was not working when I bought it, so this guy set up a clean looking HDMI female cord running right out of the back about 6inches. It keeps strain off the port and is surprisingly clean looking. It's pin for pin identical to the original HDMI port, which now has black tape over it (it's very seamless, almost like it's missing an HDMI port, lol).
   
  Installation service includes:

 PS3 ezChill Fan Mod Kit
 Professional Handling and Installation Into Your PS3
 Complete System Cleaning and Dust Removal
 Re-Application of Highest Quality Arctic CPU/GPU Heatsink Thermal Compound
 Custom Thermal Adjustment For Maximum Cooling Efficiency
 Complete System Inspection and Testing Before Returning to Customer
   
  I don't get any compensation for this, but I'm just mentioning this whole thing because this is the only guy that installs a custom, tuneable, fan mod on the PS3, well, maybe there are others, but he offers warranty afterwords (I think I had 6?, but he has some refurb ps3's with all this modding done to it with a 1yr warranty) and all I had to do was ship it to him. Thing is, the stock PS3 fan just is a bad implementation. Basically, if you have a PS3, it's going to fail. It's designed that way. Read here: http://killerbug.net/PS3FanTechInfo.html << So, that's why you need to get this, lol. It's not gonna last indefinitely, but it will for sure extend the life a great deal, especially if it's never had any problems like mine (I got soooo lucky). Funny, because, everything is always a pain with me. Anyway, he's a real personable, nice guy. Spoke on the phone for an hour about games once, lol. That mod is hella better than the 12V fan mod (omg sounded like a jet taking off then a super loud sound continuously [just google on youtube]). He set it to where it's perfect noise to performance ratio. I throughly clean my PS3 with some Orange Rind thing. What a cosmetic beauty it is! A steal as I got this for $200 with like 2 controllers and 8 games, albeit older games. He had a copy of BC2. Good man. My Ps3 runs like a champ though. Couldn't be happier.  His name is Greg. K, I wrote too much  My review of his work is on his site as Andrew M. btw.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Yeah, possibly! It seems everything I get is rare, lol. I own a Soundblaster Extigy, Psyko Carbon (which I'm returning now in favor of virtualized with the Q701's), and a 60GB PS3 (hardware ps2 version/4usb ports) that never had the warranty seal broken (which I sent to http://www.fixmypcdoctor.com/product.php?productid=17&cat=4&page=1) for preventative measure. Mine is totally custom. The HDMI port was not working when I bought it, so this guy set up a clean looking HDMI female cord running right out of the back about 6inches. It keeps strain off the port and is surprisingly clean looking. It's pin for pin identical to the original HDMI port, which now has black tape over it (it's very seamless, almost like it's missing an HDMI port, lol).
> 
> Installation service includes:
> 
> ...


 
  ... all for your PS3... so many Ps3 Games are... no you know what... AWESOME DUDE! I'm happy to hear you PIMPED out your ps3... cuz I know 100 guys with SICK pcs but only like ONE dude with a modded ps3 xD
   
  Also...any one wanna trade some cans  I'd love to hear the Creative Aural Live [I think it's called that] 
   
  More importantly I might be selling my zune! Gonna replce it with a 32gb SD card for the hifiman hm 601 I have. the hifiman has better bass... so might as well sell le zune!


----------



## Heretic817

I wish I had one widget to:
   
  Optical / RCA in, Digital EQ, Dolby on/off DAC, pre-amp,  Headphone amp capable of driving 600 ohm cans, Voice mix, Freq. response of 10Hz - 28,000Hz (ish).
   
  I even thought it might be cool to have a modular system that inter-connected. I dunno I can wish in one hand right? LOL
   
   
  The only game in town is the Mix-amp.
   
  And it really is a great little box. It is fantastic for it's market and price point. I just wish they had a more pricey model with a few more bells and whistles.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I wish I had one widget to:
> 
> Optical / RCA in, Digital EQ, Dolby on/off DAC, pre-amp,  Headphone amp capable of driving 600 ohm cans, Voice mix, Freq. response of 10Hz - 28,000Hz (ish).
> 
> ...


 
  so how does Vitrual Surround sound work with... headphones :O {*hides in corner for fear or asking the obvious*} as... I don't have one although I do play a decent amount of PC games so...


----------



## Heretic817

well I have Dolby Headphone with my mixamp and CMSS with Soundblaster on m PC rig. Neither is perfect and both change the sound a bit but I almost can't stand to game without them anymore. If I am home alone I still use my headphones. It depends on the game and all that but some are awesome.
   
  Some examples: Red Dead Redemption - I had to turn virtual surround off because the sound of horses galloping was awful. It sounded like it was in the bottom of a bucket with echo.
   
  Assassin's Creed 2 - Holy cow awesome. wandering through crowded streets is amazing. As said before it once scared me because I thought someone was downstairs inside my house talking. I whipped off my phones and said "hello?" Then realized it was in game.
   
  MW2 - Again was great. I can hear someone coming upstairs from down and to the left. Sometimes it is that good. Turn pause and, boom, shoot you in the face.
   
  Star Craft 2 - Does not matter. The style of game just does not lend itself to 3-D positioning. You, the player, are playing from above. So, you get a decent left right but 3-D positioning does not really apply.
   
  I hope that helps. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Or were you asking how it "works" from a technical perspective?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> well I have Dolby Headphone with my mixamp and CMSS with Soundblaster on m PC rig. Neither is perfect and both change the sound a bit but I almost can't stand to game without them anymore. If I am home alone I still use my headphones. It depends on the game and all that but some are awesome.
> 
> Some examples: Red Dead Redemption - I had to turn virtual surround off because the sound of horses galloping was awful. It sounded like it was in the bottom of a bucket with echo.
> 
> ...


 
  nah that's cool. And yea I can imagine it would be neat with an exploration heavy game like Metroid... *droooooooooooooooools* man I want to try those with my PC and emulate me some METROID PRIME... that would be seriously cool. Still sounds like fun! Wonder how it works with Car games, I can already hear stuff coming from behind me but... hearing left and right behind would be nifty


----------



## Heretic817

For what it's worth I was all worried about whether it would be worth it but jumped and got an Astro Mixamp and Razer Carcharias and I was sold on day one. Virtual surround and open cans with decent sound stage is the best thing to happen to my gaming life since HD graphics. It's just candy but it's so good.


----------



## Impulse

I've got a Xonar STX and I feel the same way about Dolby Headphone with PC games, works great with some games, not so much with others... I imagine it depends on what engine the game's using, to an extent. You'll get all sorts of opinions tho, some people will tell you virtual surround is blasphemous and all it does is mess up the sound, others won't play anything without it, it's rather subjective I guess.


----------



## Heretic817

Yeah I take it the game has to be properly coded to work its best. Both technologies color the sound a bit which can on some occasions be unpleasant. The majority of the time I prefer it on and sometimes it's just fantastic.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> ... all for your PS3... so many Ps3 Games are... no you know what... AWESOME DUDE! I'm happy to hear you PIMPED out your ps3... cuz I know 100 guys with SICK pcs but only like ONE dude with a modded ps3 xD
> 
> Also...any one wanna trade some cans  I'd love to hear the Creative Aural Live [I think it's called that]
> 
> More importantly I might be selling my zune! Gonna replce it with a 32gb SD card for the hifiman hm 601 I have. the hifiman has better bass... so might as well sell le zune!


 
   
  Haha, now now, what were you going to say? I had to get this done though, repaired that is. I just thought I'd go through him as opposed to the last company in Florida I used (that did the 12v fan mod and something similar with much less warranty). What a wonderful decision it was. Yup, all for it. Gotta have at least one console. The rest I can emulate mostly. Haha, thank you sir  Yeah, you should see what PC's I've wanted before  I am making a Windows98 build with a Aureal Vortex2 card  It's called legacy for a reason. Anywho, I'm more of a efficiency guy than someone who's all about cosmetics, so, this worked out wonderful for me as I could care less for flashing lights and what not (just extra expense to me that does nothing performance wise). I told you about the rarity man!


----------



## wilflare

anyone else using the PULSE Headsets? been trying to find reviews on Head-Fi for them but it's quite limited.
  still thinking of how to connect a Mixamp to them though... (or with them... the Mixamp isn't necessary?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Doesnt the Pulse have its own virtual surround?


----------



## wilflare

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Doesnt the Pulse have its own virtual surround?


 
   
  i'm getting quite confused by it.
  if i were to connect it via 3.5mm (and not the USB dongle) does the Virtual Surround still work and 
   
  it's being shipped over so I can't test it out.
  was thinking if I should get a Mixamp (over a Fiio) and match it with the Monoprice (any word on this?) or something else.
   
  used to have an AD700.. but sold it (never knew about the Mixamp then)


----------



## Heretic817

The surround only works with a Digital input, Tos-Link in the case of the Mixamp. The virtual surround is acheived by a Dolby processor. Analog in = Analog out, no Dolby.


----------



## tmaxx123

ended up goin over to best buy and getting this adapter. Works fine, but I am thinking I may be loosing some sound quality since I have to use the 1/4 inch adapter? What do you guys think?
   
  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Woodees+-+Miso+Music+Instrument+Adapter+for+Apple%26%23174%3B+iPad%26%23174%3B+and+iPad+2/3611047.p?id=1218420238016&skuId=3611047&st=wooden%20adapter&cp=1&lp=1


----------



## Heretic817

and this:
   
  http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/higher-end-stereo-headset.html
   
  does have 7.1. I assume it has a box like the mixamp with it. That link is slim on details but it's common. Turtle Beach has DSS. Triton has theirs, Razer has one, etc.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> ended up goin over to best buy and getting this adapter. Works fine, but I am thinking I may be loosing some sound quality since I have to use the 1/4 inch adapter? What do you guys think?
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Woodees+-+Miso+Music+Instrument+Adapter+for+Apple%26%23174%3B+iPad%26%23174%3B+and+iPad+2/3611047.p?id=1218420238016&skuId=3611047&st=wooden%20adapter&cp=1&lp=1


 

 Mixamp comes with an adapter like that and it's fine. I have already gone through one and had to get another. Fewest wires and connectors is always best. But what are you gonna do?


----------



## calpis

The Pulse either works as a wireless 7.1 virtual surround headset with the PS3 only with the included usb dongle or a regular stereo headset when using it with a wired connection. It uses Sony's own virtual surround headphone tech which should be exactly the same as the ones they use in their receivers.


----------



## wilflare

Quote: 





calpis said:


> The Pulse either works as a wireless 7.1 virtual surround headset with the PS3 only with the included usb dongle or a regular stereo headset when using it with a wired connection. It uses Sony's own virtual surround headphone tech which should be exactly the same as the ones they use in their receivers.


 
   
  thanks for clearing this up!
  hmm. would it be better i put aside the USB Dongle and get a Mixamp to go with it? 
   
  anyone can confirm the mic works on wired connection too?
   
  EDIT: guess this answers it
   
   
   


> [size=13.63636302947998px]Utilizing the included stereo audio cable this headset is compatible with many cell phones that have a stereo audio jack. Depending on your cell phone, you may need to turn the power off on the headset (if it is on) in order to utilize the headset.[/size][size=13.63636302947998px][/size]
> [size=13.63636302947998px]Note: based on your cell phone design, your device may utilize the headset mic or continue to use the cell phone’s mic for voice communication. For further details on hardware compatibility, please visit[/size]


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Mixamp comes with an adapter like that and it's fine. I have already gone through one and had to get another. Fewest wires and connectors is always best. But what are you gonna do?


 
  new mixamp pro, which is what I have doesnt come with an adapter like that. Hense why I had to go out and buy one... haha
   
  I may just order one online, one that has two female 3.5mm inputs, so I can get rid of the 1/4 adapter.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> new mixamp pro, which is what I have doesnt come with an adapter like that. Hense why I had to go out and buy one... haha
> 
> I may just order one online, one that has two female 3.5mm inputs, so I can get rid of the 1/4 adapter.


 

 Ah. OK. Mine came with one of these:  http://www.astrogaming.com/3rd-party-headset-y-adapter-pkg-d


----------



## wilflare

is this the only mixamp we can buy without getting a astro headset? 
  http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp-58-rx
   
  seems like the PULSE virtual surround does not work on PC :/


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





wilflare said:


> is this the only mixamp we can buy without getting a astro headset?
> http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp-58-rx
> 
> seems like the PULSE virtual surround does not work on PC :/


 
  That isn't a full mixamp. That is an extra receiver for the wireless mixamp.
   
  -Erik


----------



## calpis

So this is my mixamp hooked up to my mstage.
   
  Here's how I have it setup:
  Xbox/PS3/PC -> HDMI cables -> HDMI Splitter -> Harman Kardon AVR-247 -> Optical passthru -> Mixamp -> Startech Head*SET* splitter -> 3.5mm stereo to 2x RCA -> mstage -> headphones
   
  When I don't need chat when I'm playing consoles, I just plug my headphones directly into the receiver. When I'm playing PC games or just want to listen to music I have an Asus U1 hooked up to the mstage to supply it with DH. Then I have some Monitor Audio speakers and a carver sub set up for when volume is of no concern.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





calpis said:


> So this is my mixamp hooked up to my mstage.
> 
> Here's how I have it setup:
> Xbox/PS3/PC -> HDMI cables -> HDMI Splitter -> Harman Kardon AVR-247 -> Optical passthru -> Mixamp -> Startech Head*SET* splitter -> 3.5mm stereo to 2x RCA -> mstage -> headphones
> ...


 

 So do you have a 1/8" mini to RCA adapter from the Mixamp to the M-Stage?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats what you need so yeah, he would have to.


----------



## SoAmusing777

My search has come to a close for console gaming surround sound. I'd like to thank everyone here. Tons of research went into this, as generally these things do for me. I'm happy with the end result. Again with the rarities. I'll be using a RX-A710 Yamaha Aventage 7.1 receiver along with the DSP settings found in this thread >> http://www.head-fi.org/t/365277/silent-cinema-dolby-headphone-comparisons >> until I am able to procure a rare (and expensive) HDMI in/out card (not Auzentech) for use with MyEars (it'll help if I have a high quality soundcard when doing the configuration I think, but if they end up coming out with a MyEars for console, well, my receiver will be able to do the same thing). Regardless, I still want this card for whenever I game on the PC. Quite happy with the result. The biggest thing for me was getting LPCM in multichannel. I finally found a solution. This is the best that it gets for console gaming IMO. It'll be even better when I'm able to use MyEars. Just gotta save up some dough, as well as build a rig.


----------



## calpis

yes, 3.5mm = 1/8 inches. It's attached to the headphone split of the headset splitter.


----------



## Heretic817

OK OK. That's what I thought. Sorry, Captain Obvious I guess.


----------



## SoAmusing777

General Question: I realize the Recon3D USB does not decode DTS natively, but I do know optical supports 5.1 DTS, so, would it be possible to run 5.1 DTS from the optical on the PS3 to a receiver, then out to the Recon3D?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> General Question: I realize the Recon3D USB does not decode DTS natively, but I do know optical supports 5.1 DTS, so, would it be possible to run 5.1 DTS from the optical on the PS3 to a receiver, then out to the Recon3D?


 
   
  hmm... Just tried it with my HK and mixamp with the Castle in the Sky bluray. Linear PCM only gave me the bgm track and no vocals. Bitstream option was dead silent.
   
  I guess the thing with the optical outs on receivers are that they are purely for pass thru and the receiver itself will not touch that signal.
   
  It does the same thing too when I try and play a movie on my PC that is encoded in DTS and I get the same dead silence.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> hmm... Just tried it with my HK and mixamp with the Castle in the Sky bluray. Linear PCM only gave me the bgm track and no vocals. Bitstream option was dead silent.
> 
> I guess the thing with the optical outs on receivers are that they are purely for pass thru and the receiver itself will not touch that signal.
> 
> It does the same thing too when I try and play a movie on my PC that is encoded in DTS and I get the same dead silence


 
   
  Hmm, what about HDMI DTS 5.1 to receiver, then optical out to mixamp? I'm trying to figure out a combination using DTS as this is the highest quality multichannel Optical can receive.


----------



## calpis

I'm already running hdmi to my receiver and optical to the mixamp. Castle in the Sky is encoded in DTS-MA 7.1. My receiver doesn't support lossless so it gets fed the embedded DTS 5.1 track.
   
  So I decided to give it another shot and this time I changed the Audio to Japanese (while using linear pcm) and was able to hear the voices but it kinda sounded off.  Switched it back to English and the voices were very faint and near silent and sounded like they were talking in a bucket.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'm already running hdmi to my receiver and optical to the mixamp. Castle in the Sky is encoded in DTS-MA 7.1. My receiver doesn't support lossless so it gets fed the embedded DTS 5.1 track.
> 
> So I decided to give it another shot and this time I changed the Audio to Japanese (while using linear pcm) and was able to hear the voices but it kinda sounded off.  Switched it back to English and the voices were very faint and near silent and sounded like they were talking in a bucket.


 
   
  Hmm, although my PS3 doesn't support it, the only other thing I can think of is trying bitstreaming DTS 5.1 to the receiver, letting the receiver decode it, then output the sound through optical to the mixamp.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Ah. OK. Mine came with one of these:  http://www.astrogaming.com/3rd-party-headset-y-adapter-pkg-d


 
  Yea, they stopped giving those out. Instead they give out 2 male 3.5mm to one female 3.5mm.
   
  But after playing a long session with the mmx 300's, they are ALOT more detailed and crisp as compared to the 2013 a40. The bass is more present, but not too much that it overpowers the treble, and the competitive aspect of the headset. Instead, the bass is very tight and accurate. Makes for a more "fun" headset. The mic is nothing short of amazing. Right away my team noticed i had a new mic and i got compliments for how clear I sounded. And I dont have to talk as loud as I did with the astros. Comfort is great, they feel lighter then the a40's, I am not sure if they are, but if it wasn't for the snug fit, I would probably forget they were on. 
   
  I realized they almost make a seal around my ears, because if you push in on the earcups, I can feel pressure in my ears as if they are going to pop. Not sure if thats how they get these cans to sound so good?
   
  Build quality is amazing. Critical pieces are metal, unlike the astros. The headband is flexible, but sturdy. Everything just feels solid overall.
   
  But I will probably stick with this 1/4 adapter y-splitter situation, because it doesn't seem to make a significant difference. Unless you guys think this extra adapter would make a noticable difference in SQ?


----------



## wilflare

where can we still get these MixAmps as stand-alones. or are those headset bundles the only way to go


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





wilflare said:


> where can we still get these MixAmps as stand-alones. or are those headset bundles the only way to go


 
   
  ebay. For now at least. 
   
  That's for the 20112/Pro version at least, you will have to wait for Astro for whenever they want to sell it stand alone for the 2013 version.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





wilflare said:


> where can we still get these MixAmps as stand-alones. or are those headset bundles the only way to go


 
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> ebay. For now at least.
> 
> That's for the 20112/Pro version at least, you will have to wait for Astro for whenever they want to sell it stand alone for the 2013 version.


 
  Confirmed that the new 2013 mixamp pro will be on sale (standalone) on the 21st of this month.


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, 40 dollars just for shipping? Forget that.


 
   
  Nah, it was 40 dollar for the whole thing, but i just though of something. I have the O2 amp which has a 3.5mm jack that i use to connect my mp3 to. If it get the 3.5m male to 2RCA female, then i could plug the PS3 into the O2 amp right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

noks said:


> Nah, it was 40 dollar for the whole thing, but i just though of something. I have the O2 amp which has a 3.5mm jack that i use to connect my mp3 to. If it get the 3.5m male to 2RCA female, then i could plug the PS3 into the O2 amp right?




Yes. Didn't know you had an amp already. That should be a great stereo setup.


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Great. I'm sorry, i should've clarified that at the start lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do you have a DAC with an optical input? That would be better than the PS3's DAC, but no biggie.


----------



## Shisno

Hey, MLE... any chance you've been able to test the Psyko Audio Carbon?  I know sound quality isn't that great, but I'm looking for the absolute best positional audio headset I can find (for gaming).  Any thoughts or, info you might have would be awesome.  I've also started a thread asking for advice here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/640425/advice-new-gaming-sound-setup-from-the-ground-up
   
  Thank you, in-advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, havent tried it, and doubt I will. Dont see what could possibly outdo a K701/Q701/AD700/HD598/PC360 with Dolby Headphone.

You shouldnt have to sacrifice sound quality for a 2% increase in positional accuracy. Trust me, that Carbon isnt gonna make you catch something you couldnt with any of the ones I have mentioned.

For the longest time, I heard how the AX Pros had amazing positional accuracy, yet they didnt do anything better than my faves.


----------



## Shisno

Yeah, I have to agree about the Pro's.  I own a set now, and they did "OK" with positional audio.  However, the durability on this set was absolute crap.  The microphone stopped working after 3 months, and now (roughly 14 months later), the wiring is separating from the in-line control module.  I'm NOT looking to spend $150 a year on a headset.
  I guess what I'm really concerned about is the accuracy of simulated positional audio (AD700 looks great to me... but the one-jack connector is bothering me) versus dedicated jacks for each channel.
  So far, I'm considering the Creative Titanium, or Creative Z... the O2 amp, and the AD700.
  Or, as above, the psyko's... but, you're the second person to say the positional gains are not what they're cracked up to be.  (<< You answered this on another thread.  Thank you)


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





shisno said:


> Yeah, I have to agree about the Pro's.  I own a set now, and they did "OK" with positional audio.  However, the durability on this set was absolute crap.  The microphone stopped working after 3 months, and now (roughly 14 months later), the wiring is separating from the in-line control module.  I'm NOT looking to spend $150 a year on a headset.
> I guess what I'm really concerned about is the accuracy of simulated positional audio (AD700 looks great to me... but the one-jack connector is bothering me) versus dedicated jacks for each channel.
> So far, I'm considering the Creative Titanium, or Creative Z... the O2 amp, and the AD700.
> Or, as above, the psyko's... but, you're the second person to say the positional gains are not what they're cracked up to be.  (<< You answered this on another thread.  Thank you)


 
   
  Look, you couldn't have asked a better question with me being around. I am THE guy when it comes to wanting the best positional/realism surround sound on console. I won't settle for Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical with the mixamp. If you want the best possible sound, there are only two options, get a Yammie receiver with silent cinema that support LPCM 24bit/192khz. I'd recommend the RX-A710 (and not because I'm selling one). Get you a pair of Q701's from Amazon. Then that's it. You're set. You need a HDMI cord. If you're willing to run your computer alongside your PS3, then an even better option would be MyEars. There are reasons why I consider this the only setup. I'm open to discussion though. My hours of research got me to this point.


----------



## Shisno

I'm actually researching for a big PC build coming up with the tax return.  But, I'm also a console gamer occasionally, I'm definitely going to look into your suggestion for my console experience.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





shisno said:


> I'm actually researching for a big PC build coming up with the tax return.  But, I'm also a console gamer occasionally, I'm definitely going to look into your suggestion for my console experience.


 
   
  I feel the need to elaborate before people come at me, lol.
   
  1. Dolby Headphone - It's a one trick pony in comparison to others. I know of only up to 3presets that you can set it to to customize it to you. It's a generic HRTF, so it may not work for you. You can also use whatever EQ is on the device providing the Dolby HP. It's only provided through optical with Dolby Digital 5.1 unless you get an older Harmon Kardon receiver. You'd be missing out on some nice tech goodies if you're going the receiver route, but it will do Dolby HP over HDMI LPCM for uncompressed lossless. Thing is, it's an ERTF, which is unrealistic. It also started out as a theater technology, but it works well for some in games. Dolby Digital 5.1 is the most compressed form of 5.1, meaning it's the worst quality. If you wanted the best of both words, be prepared to put down a huge chunk of change to get Dolby HP in a modern receiver.
   
  2. Turtle Beach DSS2 - It's basically a poor mans Dolby Headphone/mixamp. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.
   
  3. THXTruStudioPro - Only available on console through the Recon3DUSB. It's similar to CMSS-3D, which is nice, but it's a USB/Optical Device, only capable of Dolby Digital. Has more customization as well, but also Generic HRTF. Next.
   
  4. CMSS-3D - Only available on console using a rarer Auzentech X-FI HT HD card, but this card has absolutely terrible reviews. It's amazing if you get it perfect, but I'd just shy away from this. Check Newegg's and Amazon's Reviews. Again, generic HRTF. Nice to have MacroFX and elevation filters though!
   
  5. Silent Cinema - Found on Yammie receivers. Has up to 23 presets, with different settings for each I believe. The RX-A710 has 17. Check the thread link earlier on in here for more info. This is also another generic HRTF, but, at least it's more customizeable, is a HRTF, not ERTF, can be found on modern receivers for a modest price, all while providing the highest form of LPCM. Hell, you even get a built in Adaptive DSP and DRC, with the latter providing a great option on consoles since it balances out all the sounds (so you can hear chat as well).
   
  6. MyEars - Just look it up. Completely custom. You'd have to get a computer, then input the PS3 to it.
   
  I rushed this a bit. I'll come back later and edit it. Gotta run! Hope this helps!


----------



## ronswanson

Wait, so Silent Cinema gives better positional audio than Dolby Headphone now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

soamusing777 said:


> Look, you couldn't have asked a better question with me being around. I am THE guy when it comes to wanting the best positional/realism surround sound on console. I won't settle for Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical with the mixamp. If you want the best possible sound, there are only two options, get a Yammie receiver with silent cinema that support LPCM 24bit/192khz. I'd recommend the RX-A710 (and not because I'm selling one). Get you a pair of Q701's from Amazon. Then that's it. You're set. You need a HDMI cord. If you're willing to run your computer alongside your PS3, then an even better option would be MyEars. There are reasons why I consider this the only setup. I'm open to discussion though. My hours of research got me to this point.




Best positional/realism? LPCM is not gonna give you ANY advantage over Dolby Digital. You're on something serious if you think video games even take advantage of lossless audio. Then again, Lossless vs High bitrate MP3 = lol, but if you think you have god's ears, then by all means.

Sorry, but you can't possibly be serious.

Most of the people I have read comparing SC vs DH have come away stating DH is better. In any case, LPCM wouldn't give you any advantage AT ALL. Guarantee it's the case of loudness = better perceived clarity. If you blind A/B test high bitrate MP3 vs FLAC, I'd bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference the vast majority of the time, and even if you could, the difference is so minute, it's not worth even talking about it.


----------



## AlBorland

First of all, thank you for this guide and your continued responses, very much appreciated.
   
  Got a few questions (and apologies ahead of time if I get longwinded or random). 
  Quick background:  I guess you could have called me a "professional" CS1.6 player back in the day, and I used HD555's (unmodded then, foam modded now) with a ****ty Dell mic that got the job done.  I always had excellent sound play, easily detecting direction/distance. 
  Flash forward 10 years and now I primarily play on a 360 (I'm currently playing BLOPS2, Halo 4, and GoW3).  I bought some TB X12's last year which was my first actual headset.  Ok sound for the money, clarity on the mic seems to be very solid.  I don't play too seriously these days, but I am the type that has fun winning, and good soundplay is key to that end.  I got an original DSS last week and the difference is astounding.  I've never played with my 555's, so I can't speak to how they would compare, but am curious if there would be much of a difference vs. the X12s. 
   
  I'm currently shopping around for a headset for my fiancee.  She's never played any type of FPS and usually gives up after about 2 minutes, but she loves zombies on blops2.  We play with some family and friends and she would like to be able to talk/hear them (tough through the tv).  I could just get her the microsoft earpiece/mic thing, but figured I'd leverage this as a way to upgrade my setup (she doesn't care at all about soundplay, just voice communication, but does want a full on headset).  I figured I'd give her my TB's and find something better for myself. 
   
  (Now for actual questions)  I saw the CALs are back down to $60 on amazon and wanted to hear your thoughts on if I should pick those up along with an attachable mic.  I know you don't have the 555's listed, but was wondering if you knew if the CALs would be an upgrade to those (or if either is even an upgrade to my current setup).  I'm looking to spend <$150, preferably <$100.  I've looked into Astro's and Tritton's, both kind of strike me as the Beats of the gaming world.  Can I use pretty much any headset through the DSS?  I'd prefer to not have to pick up a mixamp on top of another headset, if I have to go that route.  I like the TB/DSS current setup, but any suggestions for an upgrade in my budget would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ronswanson

Hmmm CAL for $60 or Samson SR850 for $53? I assume the sr850 have better soundstage?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Look, you couldn't have asked a better question with me being around. I am THE guy when it comes to wanting the best positional/realism surround sound on console. I won't settle for Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical with the mixamp.


 
   
   
  Smyth Realiser + Stax?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





alborland said:


> First of all, thank you for this guide and your continued responses, very much appreciated.
> 
> Got a few questions (and apologies ahead of time if I get longwinded or random).
> Quick background:  I guess you could have called me a "professional" CS1.6 player back in the day, and I used HD555's (unmodded then, foam modded now) with a ****ty Dell mic that got the job done.  I always had excellent sound play, easily detecting direction/distance.
> ...


 
  I do think the CAls are great sounding headphones for the price. 
  But personally I found the cups barely fit around my ears and the diaphragms feel like they are about 1mm from my ear.
  So my ears feel "bothered" in less them 10 minutes of listening, Check out the Gemini HSR-1000 (Takstar Pro 80), 60-Ohm, they cost more then the CALs, but the HSR-1000 (Pro 80) are much more comfortable to wear and are at least equal (if not better?) to sound quality then the CALs.
  I was able to get the Gemini HSR-1000 shipped to me for $68.20, from Woot Tech.


----------



## AlBorland

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I do think the CAls are great sounding headphones for the price.
> But personally I found the cups barely fit around my ears and the diaphragms feel like they are about 1mm from my ear.
> So my ears feel "bothered" in less them 10 minutes of listening, Check out the Gemini HSR-1000 (Takstar Pro 80), 60-Ohm, they cost more then the CALs, but the HSR-1000 (Pro 80) are much more comfortable to wear and are at least equal (if not better?) to sound quality then the CALs.
> I was able to get the Gemini HSR-1000 shipped to me for $68.20, from Woot Tech.


 

 I'll keep the HSR-1000 in mind. 
   
  The more reading/thinking I'm doing, the more I'm leaning towards headphone (perhaps ATH-AD700, if they're an upgrade over my HD555's) + mic vs. headset.  However, if my fiancee is using the X12's, is there a way for both of us to use voice comm through the DSS?  Would a mic splitter work?
   
  For reference, my current setup is: 
  TV -> HDMI -> Xbox
  TV ->Optical cable -> Receiver
  TB X12  -> USB/Green Mic cord-> DSS -> Optical cable (also plugged into xbox via usb) -> Adapter (has Red/White and optical inputs) -> Xbox
   
  I guess what I'm wondering, if I go the headphone + mic route, is if I can leave everything as is, connect the headphones via the Output jack on the DSS, get a mic splitter and hook up a standalone mic along with the X12's?  Would that enable sound + voice for us both?


----------



## Moby1

Hi mad lust, what would you recommend out of the open headphones you have owned as for the best for music (video game soundtracks and ambient chill music) apart from the he400? Any advice would be great


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Do you have a DAC with an optical input? That would be better than the PS3's DAC, but no biggie.


 

 No my Behringer UCA202 only has an optical output, though i guess i could plug the PS3's audio composite into the Behringer? Google cant give me an answer on this one.


----------



## JdmKicks94

Hey guys, I had previously owned a pair of Sennheiser HD558's that I had been using for gaming and music, and while they were great for gaming, they didn't provide the bass I wanted for my music. The music I listen to consists mostly of Rock, R&B, and some Rap. I am by no means a Basshead, but i don't want a pair of bass light Headphones like the Hd558's or Ad700's. So far I have been reccomended a pair of Ultrasone HFI-780's, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80's, and  Audio Technica A700's. These would be used with my Asus Xonar DG sound card. All suggestions are appriciated, Thanks.

Edit: sorry, but I forgot to mention that my budget is $150 max.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





jdmkicks94 said:


> Hey guys, I had previously owned a pair of Sennheiser HD558's that I had been using for gaming and music, and while they were great for gaming, they didn't provide the bass I wanted for my music. The music I listen to consists mostly of Rock, R&B, and some Rap. I am by no means a Basshead, but i don't want a pair of bass light Headphones like the Hd558's or Ad700's. So far I have been reccomended a pair of Ultrasone HFI-780's, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80's, and  Audio Technica A700's. These would be used with my Asus Xonar DG sound card. All suggestions are appriciated, Thanks.


 
  I have the mmx 300's which from my understanding are pretty much the same as the dt 700's. And the mmx 300's are amazing on music. really tight accurate bass and crisp mids and highs.
   
  i would def recommend them


----------



## JdmKicks94

tmaxx123 said:


> I have the mmx 300's which from my understanding are pretty much the same as the dt 700's. And the mmx 300's are amazing on music. really tight accurate bass and crisp mids and highs.
> 
> i would def recommend them




Thanks for the recomendation, but my budget is $150. I forgot to mention that in my original point. If I did have the money I would definitely look into those.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





jdmkicks94 said:


> Thanks for the recomendation, but my budget is $150. I forgot to mention that in my original point. If I did have the money I would definitely look into those.


 
  i didnt pay much more than 150.  nowhere near the 415 retail price. My budget used to be 150, but I have gone through too many headsets to realize I should have just shelled out a few more bucks on something substantial (mmx 300) and now I couldnt be happier.


----------



## JdmKicks94

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> i didnt pay much more than 150.  nowhere near the 415 retail price. My budget used to be 150, but I have gone through too many headsets to realize I should have just shelled out a few more bucks on something substantial (mmx 300) and now I couldnt be happier.


 
  I was actually looking into buying the sennheiser pc360's refurbished for around $150. Would these be a good purchase?
   
  http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003DA4D2U/ref=dp_olp_refurbished?ie=UTF8&condition=refurbished


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jdmkicks94 said:


> I was actually looking into buying the sennheiser pc360's refurbished for around $150. Would these be a good purchase?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003DA4D2U/ref=dp_olp_refurbished?ie=UTF8&condition=refurbished


 
   
  I wouldn't expect the PC360s to sound _that_ different from the HD558s.  And you already said:
   
   
  Quote: 





> Hey guys,* I had previously owned a pair of Sennheiser HD558's* that I had been using for gaming and music, and while they were great for gaming,* they didn't provide the bass I wanted for my music*. The music I listen to consists mostly of Rock, R&B, and some Rap. I am by no means a Basshead, but *i don't want a pair of bass light Headphones like the Hd558's* or Ad700's


----------



## JdmKicks94

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I wouldn't expect the PC360s to sound _that_ different from the HD558s.  And you already said:


 
  That would probably be true. Would you have any recomendations in the $150 price range?


----------



## AaronR

I just love this review, so useful, I keep coming back.
   
   
  HD598s go like this for me.
   
  Comfort - 9/10. I'd give them a 10/10 but I haven't tried out  other brands.
   
  Fun - 8/10. They could use a little more impact and sub bass.
   
  Competitive - 10/10. I don't have the surround sound feature. But, for me, that doesn't hold me back. I always get the drop on enemies.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jdmkicks94 said:


> That would probably be true. Would you have any recomendations in the $150 price range?


 
   
  Usually headphones that are good for listening to rap and with stronger bass are the ones that are bad for gaming (closed, small soundstage).  It's hard to get open headphones with lots of bass.  Especially in the $150 range.  There are more options in the higher price range...  :\


----------



## JdmKicks94

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Usually headphones that are good for listening to rap and with stronger bass are the ones that are bad for gaming (closed, small soundstage).  It's hard to get open headphones with lots of bass.  Especially in the $150 range.  There are more options in the higher price range...  :\


 
  It would probably be a better idea to buy a seperate pair of headphones for music lol.. anyways in terms of just gaming, I trust by reading the review on this thread that the pc360's would be the best headset for gaming in my price category correct?
   
  Another reason i sold the hd558's was due to the fact that i hated having to use the modmic with the heaphones because of the long cable, and I would prefer a headset better.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jdmkicks94 said:


> It would probably be a better idea to buy a seperate pair of headphones for music lol.. anyways in terms of just gaming, I trust by reading the review on this thread that the pc360's would be the best headset for gaming in my price category correct?
> 
> Another reason i sold the hd558's was due to the fact that i hated having to use the modmic with the heaphones because of the long cable, and I would prefer a headset better.


 
   
  PC360 is one of the better/best headsets, so ya, if you get it under $150 it's probably the best headset in the price range.
   
  Just don't expect much difference from HD558....


----------



## JdmKicks94

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> PC360 is one of the better/best headsets, so ya, if you get it under $150 it's probably the best headset in the price range.
> 
> Just don't expect much difference from HD558....


 
  Like i said before, i loved the 558's for gaming, just didn't like having to add a mic lol. thanks for all your help!


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I feel the need to elaborate before people come at me, lol.
> 
> 1. Dolby Headphone - It's a one trick pony in comparison to others. I know of only up to 3presets that you can set it to to customize it to you. It's a generic HRTF, so it may not work for you. You can also use whatever EQ is on the device providing the Dolby HP. It's only provided through optical with Dolby Digital 5.1 unless you get an older Harmon Kardon receiver. You'd be missing out on some nice tech goodies if you're going the receiver route, but it will do Dolby HP over HDMI LPCM for uncompressed lossless. Thing is, it's an ERTF, which is unrealistic. It also started out as a theater technology, but it works well for some in games. Dolby Digital 5.1 is the most compressed form of 5.1, meaning it's the worst quality. If you wanted the best of both words, be prepared to put down a huge chunk of change to get Dolby HP in a modern receiver.
> 
> ...


 
   
  How do you use myears with an external input? Plz elaborate, I would def. like to try this.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

moby1 said:


> Hi mad lust, what would you recommend out of the open headphones you have owned as for the best for music (video game soundtracks and ambient chill music) apart from the he400? Any advice would be great




Other than the HE4 and HE400, there's the HD650, Q701, and DT990. Love all three, though NOW if I could have one, it would be the HD650 because of those magical mids and pleasant tone.

The DT990 if you want bass and raw energy, and Q701 for the most balance with just a tad bit of shyness in the bass. The Q701 with a subtle bass boost is probably the best thing in the $250 range. Seriously. If I wasn't so against using bass boosts personally, the Q701 is probably near perfection sound-wise. They do music and gaming justice.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 with a subtle bass boost is probably the best thing in the $250 range.


 
   
  Soooooooo........Let me know when you get that K702 65th Anniversary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, that'd only happen if the price goes down to less than $350. But im hopeful. Also, it depends on what happens first:

Fidelio X1 sold on Amazon.com in the states, or the K702/65 goes down in price (seen it at $470, which is too much for a slightly improved Q701).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, that'd only happen if the price goes down to less than $350. But im hopeful. Also, it depends on what happens first:
> Fidelio X1 sold on Amazon.com in the states, or the K702/65 goes down in price (seen it at $470, which is too much for a slightly improved Q701).


 
   
   
  Well, I'm curious about either one, so it's all good.
   
  In the meantime....
   
  http://www.headfonia.com/the-fidelio-x1-by-philips/


----------



## chicolom

Double your pleasure, double your post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That review solidified my interest in the X1. My only concern is the size and my large head. I'll probably have to wear it forward, instead of my usual headband placement.

Just waiting on Amazon...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That review solidified my interest in the X1. My only concern is the size and my large head. I'll probably have to wear it forward, instead of my usual headband placement.
> Just waiting on Amazon...


 
   
   
  Yes, based on the impressions of the review it sounds like the signature is nice mix of the warmth of HD650 but with some more air and "fun" up top.  Still not sure about the soundstage though....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it sounds like a blend of HD650 and DT990. More airiness and treble clarity than the HD650, less sizzle than the 990, and bass like both. I found the HD650 to have bass not far off from the 990s, so I was happy. All I ever wanted from the 990s was less treble and more mids, and the X1 sounds like just that, with warmth to further sweeten the mix.

The HD650 can be slow and reserved which is my only real gripe with it, though I think its necessary for it to be that way to make the mids as lovely as they are.

Really, the HD650 with more air and treble clarity is almost perfection, to be honest.


----------



## Wild

Mad Lust Envy, just want to say thanks a million! This guide has been incredibly helpful to me for a very long time.  I've come a long way since first reading this guide, and have tried a large portion of the headphones listed (my wallet hates you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) Right now I'm listening to the DT 770 AE's and they're awesome, but I think I'm going to end up with the HE 400's since I loved them while I had them. 
   
  Anyways, I actually have a quick question...How do you guys think the Mixamp is as a standalone amp (when turning off the Dolby mode).  IMO, compared to my E17, it actually does pretty well. I used to love it, because it has really powerful bass, but I feel like the E17 is a bit more refined.
   
  I have searched long and far for an answer to how it performs without Dolby, but AFAIK nobody's ever reviewed that part of the Mixamp.   I'm curious because I don't have much to compare it to, and I personally don't like Dolby for music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It is not a very powerful or clear amp. There is audible noise added by the Mixamp. It can't compete with real audiophile portable amps. I certainly wouldn't suggest using it for music use unless you have nothing else, and have a crappy sounding source like a netbook.

Better than nothing, worse than a standard headphone amp. Not sure how the DAC portion fares, but you can't use that alone....


----------



## seb UK

Just pulled the trigger and ordered a new set of DT990 Pro's 250 OHM and a DSS2. I'm thinking this will be a big step up from my DJ headphones - Sennheiser HD25s -  that I've been using for gaming and movies. (These are really not designed for gaming and movies!).
   
  Thanks to MLE and everyone else who has provided info into this thread.
   
  Will post of my reviews of this set up once I open it on Xmas day


----------



## Moby1

mad lust envy said:


> Other than the HE4 and HE400, there's the HD650, Q701, and DT990. Love all three, though NOW if I could have one, it would be the HD650 because of those magical mids and pleasant tone.
> The DT990 if you want bass and raw energy, and Q701 for the most balance with just a tad bit of shyness in the bass. The Q701 with a subtle bass boost is probably the best thing in the $250 range. Seriously. If I wasn't so against using bass boosts personally, the Q701 is probably near perfection sound-wise. They do music and gaming justice.




Thanks mad lust, q701 or dt990 sounds like my best bet as I am not a fan of the darker warmer sound from sennheisers, really just looking to get lost in the ambient chill music, speaker like sound while having the option to be solid for gaming, was considering saving up for the t1 but perhaps that's overkill as I will only be using a portable amp (with optical for ps3) and I think the t1 requires a lot more power, out of the 2 which would you say is harder to drive to full potential? I am aware the dt990 600 will require a fair bit but the q701 seems to have mixed opinions on these forums


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pro would be my bet. The Q701 isn't as comfy, and not sure how you'd like it's bass.

Both the 990 and Q701 are love/hate headphones, lol.


----------



## burritoboy9984

LOL, so about an hour after I started my chat, the Monoprice CSR basically demanded I try a 3rd headset to ensure it wasn't 2 bad headsets. I seriously doubt this one is going to fix the issue, but we will see.
   
  For those wondering about the Monoprice's headsets ability to adjust separate channels as it says it can.
   
Erik: I also have a question about something it says in the item's description. It says you can change each of the 8 channels volume independently. I couldn't find any mention of this in the manual, and could find no way to achieve this.
TS - Mike M : That currently is still being worked on to be supported, though will soon be available.
Erik: Why would they advertise it does it if it doesn't though? And how would you update the device for people who have already purchased it?
TS - Mike M : That will be updated in the manual of how that function is to be used. currently it is available on it, though we are still updating the information on it. 
Erik: Ok, thanks. Any eta for that?
TS - Mike M : Not currently
Erik: Ok, thanks for your time.
   
  Take that how you please.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Best positional/realism? LPCM is not gonna give you ANY advantage over Dolby Digital. You're on something serious if you think video games even take advantage of lossless audio. Then again, Lossless vs High bitrate MP3 = lol, but if you think you have god's ears, then by all means.
> Sorry, but you can't possibly be serious.
> Most of the people I have read comparing SC vs DH have come away stating DH is better. In any case, LPCM wouldn't give you any advantage AT ALL. Guarantee it's the case of loudness = better perceived clarity. If you blind A/B test high bitrate MP3 vs FLAC, I'd bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference the vast majority of the time, and even if you could, the difference is so minute, it's not worth even talking about it.


 

 I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.
   
  I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.
   
  It's true that everyone perceives sound the same way because we all have different ears so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. I've looked into myears and that seems like a great idea but as far as I know, it is still not supported on PS3. I'm still thinking about the possibility of a mixamp and maybe hooking it up to receiver through optical and PS3/Wii U to receiver through HDMI. But I don't think (or know whether) I would hear any difference in sound quality If I plug my headphones into the mixamp itself since the optical cable only has 2.1 channels apparently (correct me if I'm wrong). Then again I could plug them to my receiver and maybe buy a mic or a splitter if I'm using a headset and plug that into the mixamp for controlling in-game audio/voice chat volume, although again, I don't know if that is even possible.
   
  Then again there is the steelseries audio mixer that plugs to a USB slot to the PS3 and to an audio source (Receiver) so that might be another viable solution. If steelseries ever decides to sell it again in North America...
   
  Can anybody help a guy out? I have at best rudimentary knowledge of sound in game (or general) audio. Again, I want the best possible solution for something that at least resembles 3D audio for something that won't cost me $3k+, or 1k for that matter. Maybe ~$500 not counting the headphones. 
   
  That is like 90% of the reason I wanted the DT 770's. According to Mad Lust Envy, they are the very best in terms of distance and positioning.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.
> I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.
> It's true that everyone perceives sound the same way because we all have different ears so what works for one may not necessarily work for someone else. I've looked into myears and that seems like a great idea but as far as I know, it is still not supported on PS3. I'm still thinking about the possibility of a mixamp and maybe hooking it up to receiver through optical and PS3/Wii U to receiver through HDMI. But I don't think (or know whether) I would hear any difference in sound quality If I plug my headphones into the mixamp itself since the optical cable only has 2.1 channels apparently (correct me if I'm wrong). Then again I could plug them to my receiver and maybe buy a mic or a splitter if I'm using a headset and plug that into the mixamp for controlling in-game audio/voice chat volume, although again, I don't know if that is even possible.
> Then again there is the steelseries audio mixer that plugs to a USB slot to the PS3 and to an audio source (Receiver) so that might be another viable solution. If steelseries ever decides to sell it again in North America...
> ...


 
  As far as i know, the PS3 audio system is DTS and some limited Dolby support, Mix-amps are Dolby, not sure if they come with any DTS support.
  DTS seems to be popular for Blu-ray audio audio tracks on Blu-ray disks
  S/PDIF (Optical & coaxial) is 2-channels of PCM (uncompressed) digital audio or up to 6-channels (5.1) of compressed digital audio.
  Compressed digital audio is 24-Bit/48Khz, uncompressed is 24-Bit/192Khz.
  I think Blu-ray disk audio can take advantage of higher then 48Khz audio.
  For compression of audio files, Dolby uses DDL (Dolby Digital Live) and DTS uses DTS connect, and as far as I know one will not work with the other.
  So if DTS-Connect is used for compression, then you need DTS-Connect at the other end for uncompression.
  Receivers usually come with Dolby and DTS audio features and using HDMI means you do not have to use any compression.
  And with the receivers you can have your TV, PS3, Wii U audio all controlled thru one receiver.
  Receiver have more juice for driving headphones (50-Ohm to 600-Ohm), then the mix-amp (barely drives 250-Ohm).
  My Yamaha receiver works fine with my Beyerdynamic 250-Ohm and 600-Ohm headphones.
  Really low Ohm headphones, like under 50-Ohm, do not work very well with receivers in general, Impedance issues.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I was thinking of purchasing a Yamaha Aventage. Perhaps this one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1355336965&sr=1-9&keywords=yamaha+aventage Or maybe a newer model if I can find it for a decent price in craiglists, amazon, etc. This one should be able to decode compressed audio through DTS, correct?
   
  If I'm understanding correctly. The optical/coaxial cables can pass through 6 channels of compressed audio at 24-bit/48 khz. If I so choose I could use a receiver to decode that audio and plug my headphones directly  to the receiver for uncompressed 6 channel (5.1) sound at 24-bit/192khz.
   
  At any rate, if I buy a Yamaha like the one above I shouldn't have any issues as far as decoding audio of uncompressed enjoyment.
   
  If I use the 80 ohm DT 770 pro on a Yamaha which has 8ohm that should drive the headphone well given that "as a rule of thumb, a damping factor of 10 or more is desirable for the source to be able to drive the load with authority."
   
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comparison-beyerdynamic-dt-880-32-ohm-dt-880-250-ohm-and-dt-880-600-ohm-headphones-page-2
   
  Nevertheless that still does not solve the issue of sound mixing. Hopefully steelseries will produce their crossplatform audio mixers again. I'd like to test that out.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I think it's pretty! I want to figure out how to do that; with my surround processor sitting next to me, I have a sloppy pool of cables around my feet. Especially when I use my preferred wired controller, have my AD700 on hand for A/B testing, and the wire going to my Tube/class A amp.
> Have you noticed any ill-effects from having the cable all twisted? I would imagine it would create an almost antennae effect, or I'd at least be worried about crimping the cable. If there have been no problems, I probably will study your picture and see if I can figure out how you tied it! Personally, I'm more skilled at untying knots than making them


 
   
  The braiding isn't difficult normally, but it does add a bit of challenge when you include the modmic line. So I added a couple of pieces of tape to hold them together while braiding. As for sound, as long as you're not doing it too tightly you'll run into no sound issues. Mic is perfectly clear, sound isn't impacted at all. But once you make it too tight, you'll strain the cabling inside and can permanently damage the cables. As for learning, there's info here on the forums on how to braid a cable, or you can look on youtube for video instructions. I learned in one of the many M50 threads.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.
> 
> I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.
> 
> ...


 
   
  First off, you're just not going to get proper 3D audio out of a console, or even most of today's PC games (which are incidentally console ports). That was lost a long time ago due to industry ignorance. Virtual 7.1 can go a long way, though; Dolby Headphone is quite effective at that.
   
  Second, due to the lack of personalized HRTF options beyond a few PC applications that are of no use on consoles (unless capture cards with HDMI can record all 8 channels of LPCM over the HDMI port) and the $3,000+ Smyth Realiser, you might as well just get an AVR with Dolby Headphone and call it a day. $500 can certainly get you a nice Harmon Kardon AVR 354 second-hand on eBay, and likely with some funds left over that can go toward your headphones.
   
  Third, if you wanted the very best in distance and positioning, it's hard to say that the DT770 is the "very best" when not even considering the Sennheiser HD800 and most Stax models (which tend to be aural wallhack monsters when used with virtual surround). But would you really pay anywhere from $400 to $1,500 to $5,000+ just for that competitive advantage? You're already passing the law of diminishing returns at $200.
   
  Also keep in mind that while the headphones do play a role in bringing out those positional cues, most of it is going to be coming from the surround processing itself.


----------



## Impulse

chicolom said:


> Well, I'm curious about either one, so it's all good.
> 
> In the meantime....
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/the-fidelio-x1-by-philips/




Wow, that's quite the glowing review if I ever saw one; tho their latest reviews have all seemed to heavily favor anything new and shiny over outgoing models, e.g. K550, DT 770 AE, etc. (maybe I'm just cyclical...). 

An HD650 / DT 880 hybrid does sound rather dreamy tho, and they look great too... Plus a single sided cable! I know there's technical reasons why dual entry can be superior but I'm sorry, I just like my expensive headphones to be as comfortable and easy to live with as possible.

I hadn't read much about the X1, just the longings of people on the boards lamenting they aren't available stateside, now I really wanna try them out too! Hehe, has Philips made any statements at all about US availability?

I really liked the Downtowns for what they are, specially after the price dropped from MSRP. Seems their whole line is going upscale, only makes sense to have a flagship spearheading it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I was thinking of purchasing a Yamaha Aventage. Perhaps this one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1355336965&sr=1-9&keywords=yamaha+aventage Or maybe a newer model if I can find it for a decent price in craiglists, amazon, etc. This one should be able to decode compressed audio through DTS, correct?
> 
> If I'm understanding correctly. The optical/coaxial cables can pass through 6 channels of compressed audio at 24-bit/48 khz. If I so choose I could use a receiver to decode that audio and plug my headphones directly  to the receiver for uncompressed 6 channel (5.1) sound at 24-bit/192khz.
> 
> ...


 
  The Yamaha RX-A700 was the model that was at the top of my list for a receiver to buy last year. It is about as low cost as you can get for a Yamaha A/V receiver that comes with better built in speaker amplifiers.
  When you send 6-channels of compressed (DDL or DTS-Connect) 24-bit/48Khz audio thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), it uncompresses to 24-bit/48khz PCM uncompressed audio.
  This is why I like to push HDMI.
   
  All modem A/V receivers come with both Dolby & DTS audio support.
   
  I just plugged my DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones into my Yamaha RX-671 A/V receiver, sounded fine.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Best positional/realism? LPCM is not gonna give you ANY advantage over Dolby Digital. You're on something serious if you think video games even take advantage of lossless audio. Then again, Lossless vs High bitrate MP3 = lol, but if you think you have god's ears, then by all means.
> Sorry, but you can't possibly be serious.
> Most of the people I have read comparing SC vs DH have come away stating DH is better. In any case, LPCM wouldn't give you any advantage AT ALL. Guarantee it's the case of loudness = better perceived clarity. If you blind A/B test high bitrate MP3 vs FLAC, I'd bet you wouldn't be able to tell the difference the vast majority of the time, and even if you could, the difference is so minute, it's not worth even talking about it.


 
   
  If you say so. I did expound on this in a later post. Right, because they don't at all. Try Uncharted. That's a big difference. Woah, you're going way too far. I never said that. I don't have any exceptional type of ear. Just by saying sorry after typing something, although it wasn't that bad, doesn't make it just fine. I'm somewhat serious, yes. Okay. Why wouldn't it? I'm not exactly looking for an advantage. I want fidelity. Nope. Hmm, interesting. I'm all ears.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> How do you use myears with an external input? Plz elaborate, I would def. like to try this.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I only know of one way. Get a ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe. Setup MyEars using that card on your computer. Run the PS3 to the Deluxe's input, then out to your receiver or TV. If TV, plug headphones into Deluxe. If Receiver, you can do either. Props to you if you do


----------



## SoAmusing777

HOLY MULTI-QUOTE BATMAN.
   
  Quote:


purpleangel said:


> The Yamaha RX-A700 was the model that was at the top of my list for a receiver to buy last year. It is about as low cost as you can get for a Yamaha A/V receiver that comes with better built in speaker amplifiers.
> When you send 6-channels of compressed (DDL or DTS-Connect) 24-bit/48Khz audio thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), it uncompresses to 24-bit/48khz PCM uncompressed audio.
> This is why I like to push HDMI.
> 
> ...


 
  Well, then this answers my previous question. I wonder if the compression/uncompression affects the audio at all. In the end, to acheive that PCM in mulit-surround, one still needs a receiver right? Or does the Mixamp uncompress DD 5.1 to 5.1 PCM?
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> First off, you're just not going to get proper 3D audio out of a console, or even most of today's PC games (which are incidentally console ports). That was lost a long time ago due to industry ignorance. Virtual 7.1 can go a long way, though; Dolby Headphone is quite effective at that.
> 
> Second, due to the lack of personalized HRTF options beyond a few PC applications that are of no use on consoles (unless capture cards with HDMI can record all 8 channels of LPCM over the HDMI port) and the $3,000+ Smyth Realiser, you might as well just get an AVR with Dolby Headphone and call it a day. $500 can certainly get you a nice Harmon Kardon AVR 354 second-hand on eBay, and likely with some funds left over that can go toward your headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Yup, it's sad. Nope. Capture cards cannot do that that I know of. It's the whole HDCP thing, but then there is the option of a HDCP stripper. Read here: http://www.geektonic.com/2009/08/keeping-analog-hole-open.html < I have that bookmarked  Maybe that's just for video. Idk. In any case, I don't think HDMI can be used just for audio. If it can't pass the video as well, it won't work. Don't quote me on that though. God, all this crap has to be so complex and so much work. A company really needs to just easy educate people and provide a product. There's a huge market for it. Why hasn't it been done? At first I was worried with my purchase of Q701's for gaming/music/movies, but then I saw the Senn800's price tag. Woah. Stax are so huge, lol. Do they even use a headphone port? What is the whole electrostatic thing anyway? Def law of diminishing returns.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I was thinking of purchasing a Yamaha Aventage. Perhaps this one: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-A700-7-1-Channel-Receiver-VERSION/dp/B003XDU49S/ref=sr_1_9?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1355336965&sr=1-9&keywords=yamaha+aventage Or maybe a newer model if I can find it for a decent price in craiglists, amazon, etc. This one should be able to decode compressed audio through DTS, correct?
> 
> If I'm understanding correctly. The optical/coaxial cables can pass through 6 channels of compressed audio at 24-bit/48 khz. If I so choose I could use a receiver to decode that audio and plug my headphones directly  to the receiver for uncompressed 6 channel (5.1) sound at 24-bit/192khz.
> 
> ...


 
  I looked at the HK AVR-254 first, then that one on Amazon, then finally settled on the one I have for various reasons. Compare and contrast the 700 and 710 sometime. Great purchase though. Check out what the Aventage offers sometime. If you're understanding correctly, woah, wait, is that how it works? Remember what I said about Adaptive DSP and DRC for sound mixing.
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> As far as i know, the PS3 audio system is DTS and some limited Dolby support, Mix-amps are Dolby, not sure if they come with any DTS support.
> DTS seems to be popular for Blu-ray audio audio tracks on Blu-ray disks
> S/PDIF (Optical & coaxial) is 2-channels of PCM (uncompressed) digital audio or up to 6-channels (5.1) of compressed digital audio.
> Compressed digital audio is 24-Bit/48Khz, uncompressed is 24-Bit/192Khz.
> ...


 
  Interesting to know that PS3 is DTS. I wonder if the Yammy receiver does something to help to take advantage of the greater than 48khz.
   
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I'm still trying to figure this out. Most console games nowadays don't even use the type of compression that would merit using HDMI and decoders for loss-less audio since the said audio wasn't designed to be listened as such.
> 
> I would like to come up with a solution to use on my PS3 but I would also like something I would use on the Wii U I plan to buy eventually. That's why the AVR seems like a good proposition. The this is like soamusing777. I want 3D audio, or at least something similar that helps with immersion.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is that true about consoles? I mean, I don't doubt that some games weren't mixed with audio fidelity in mind via uncompressed, but I know some are, or scale well with whatever hardware you have. AVR's are nice! That's exactly right. That's why I said DH may not work for you. It's very limited in terms of customizing. I hate the fact that it's an ERTF also. In the end, I plan on using MyEars. They mentioned it coming out on consoles, but that was at the end of 2010. It's available on the Computer though. I'm going to get a gaming computer regardless, so buying the Yammy receiver is better for me than buying an older HK receiver with less features. If I'm going to plop down that much change, I want options. Yes, optical only carries 2.1 channels of PCM or 5.1 of DTS or DD. Idk, you confused me, lol. Yup, they will. I told you Jan. Remember though, the Yammy receiver has Adaptive DSP and DRC, which will really help "livemixing" with just the receiver itself. We're in the same boat


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> First off, you're just not going to get proper 3D audio out of a console, or even most of today's PC games (which are incidentally console ports). That was lost a long time ago due to industry ignorance. Virtual 7.1 can go a long way, though; Dolby Headphone is quite effective at that.
> 
> Second, due to the lack of personalized HRTF options beyond a few PC applications that are of no use on consoles (unless capture cards with HDMI can record all 8 channels of LPCM over the HDMI port) and the $3,000+ Smyth Realiser, you might as well just get an AVR with Dolby Headphone and call it a day. $500 can certainly get you a nice Harmon Kardon AVR 354 second-hand on eBay, and likely with some funds left over that can go toward your headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 I don't want to spend over 1k over a pair of headphones. Do you recommend any in particular to use? (In addition of a AVR of course). And why would I pick a Harmon Kardon AVR as opposed to something like Yamaha with Silent Cinema?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Well, then this answers my previous question. I wonder if the compression/uncompression affects the audio at all. In the end, to acheive that PCM in mulit-surround, one still needs a receiver right? Or does the Mixamp uncompress DD 5.1 to 5.1 PCM?
> 
> Interesting to know that PS3 is DTS. I wonder if the Yammy receiver does something to help to take advantage of the greater than 48khz.
> 
> ...


 
  I believe the Astro Mix-Amp can uncompress 5.1 DDL to PCM 5.1
   
  Modern A/V receiver (like Yamaha) can process 24-bit/192Khz, but I think only Blu-ray audio tracks would would really take advantage of audio above 48Khz.
  Technically S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) can only carry 2.0-channels of PCM (uncompressed) audio, technically 2.1 is 3-channels of audio.
  Usually something like a receiver takes in the 2.0-channel and splits off the lower part of the signal for the sub-woofer.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I only know of one way. Get a ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe. Setup MyEars using that card on your computer. Run the PS3 to the Deluxe's input, then out to your receiver or TV. If TV, plug headphones into Deluxe. If Receiver, you can do either. Props to you if you do


 
   
  Ya, I just started looking at that (and other sound cards that support spdif in) today...
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Ya, I just started looking at that (and other sound cards that support spdif in) today...
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Ah, many more support SPDIF in than HDMI, lol. HDMI in = 2.
   
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I don't want to spend over 1k over a pair of headphones. Do you recommend any in particular to use? (In addition of a AVR of course). And why would I pick a Harmon Kardon AVR as opposed to something like Yamaha with Silent Cinema?


 
   
  Yeah, that's ridiculous. Because it has Dolby Headphone, that's the only reason.
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I believe the Astro Mix-Amp can uncompress 5.1 DDL to PCM 5.1
> 
> Modern A/V receiver (like Yamaha) can process 24-bit/192Khz, but I think only Blu-ray audio tracks would would really take advantage of audio above 48Khz.
> Technically S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) can only carry 2.0-channels of PCM (uncompressed) audio, technically 2.1 is 3-channels of audio.
> Usually something like a receiver takes in the 2.0-channel and splits off the lower part of the signal for the sub-woofer.


 
   
  Interesting... Okay.


----------



## zieku

Ok, I’m new to headphones. Currently, I am still unsure how much I would like to invest and this on depends on how much they really wow me. I have read most reviews and I am still at a standstill on what to get. I may wait for the PLYR 1’s since wireless is convenient though I’m skeptical of the so called 15 hour battery life and the wireless quality in general. The q701’s seem to lack base according to these forums. I am looking for a music theater headset with some type of mic weather that is a Bluetooth attachable or not. I would like to be able to have a decent gaming experience with some strong music sound. The emphasis for me will be more on good sound over gaming quality. I’m a casual fps player and more in to mmos.
  I went and tried on a lot of pairs of headphones today and none really impressed me.  Given the store probably did not have them on a mix amp or any amp for that matter. To boot, most of them were stereo or music the 7.1 surround were the gaming ”turtle beaches” ones which as I have read here and agree lack quality sound scratchy and sort of dry “ not sure how to describe it”. I don’t know if it’s just the lack of a good mix amp or not but the sennheiser HD 380, dre-beats pro, turtle beaches, and a multitude of other sennheiser products, Sony products skull candy, and Bose do not impress me. Long story short nothing gave me the depth of a smooth deep base my home theater offers.
   I am willing to take a leap of faith if you guys suggest to me a decent set of head phones that are up my ally. Someone said that the Mx300s were nice but is there a cheaper pair I can test out first? I would like some insurance if you know what I mean. At this point the astro a40’s seem like a good bet because if I do ever decide to upgrade people seem to like there mix amp they come with a detachable mic.   Everything I need in a bundle with a decent amp for the future or do you think the Skullcandy SLYR’s are better sound even without the mix amp they seem to get good reviews from lush. If I can’t find the quality I might as well get decent pair like the skull candies. LOL so confused the more I know the less sure I am about what to get it’s a shame really.
   
  BTW, thank you guys for all the help I learned quite a bit about headphones really fast. Problem is I have no actual experience of a good headset so here I stand


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Ah, many more support SPDIF in than HDMI, lol. HDMI in = 2.


 
   
  Which is the other one that supports hdmi?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SLYR is very solid for the price. My only real complaint is that due to its closed design, the soundstage isnt great. Still the clarity, energy, and forwardness is damn good for a headset. I like it a lot, even if it was just a headphone.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Which is the other one that supports hdmi?


 
   
  Check Newegg's and Amazon's reviews, but the Auzentech X-Fi HT HD. Good luck contacting support.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The SLYR is very solid for the price. My only real complaint is that due to its closed design, the soundstage isnt great. Still the clarity, energy, and forwardness is damn good for a headset. I like it a lot, even if it was just a headphone


 
  Skullcandy has 50% off their entire site right now. REDBULL50 trying to snag a pair of plyr's
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Check Newegg's and Amazon's reviews, but the Auzentech X-Fi HT HD. Good luck contacting support.


 
  Could I use the hdav1.3 slim? Not sure what all connections it has...
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Could I use the hdav1.3 slim? Not sure what all connections it has...
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I do believe so. Check the reviews, and the specs.


----------



## Wild

Just got my new DT 770 AE and can confirm they are awesome for gaming.  I think I might still prefer the DT770 pro 80 for that awesome sub bass, but the DT 770 AE ups the ante with the mixamp.  Less bass (still good though) means more sound-whoring


----------



## SoAmusing777

Anybody wanna buy a mint Creative Extigy? I've got ALL the original hardware for it. CD, Feet, Controller, Cords.. Just not the original box that I had but threw away. I do have the blue inside box where the CD sits and what not. PM me if interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13

O. M. G.

$99, more power than the E9/E9k.

The Magni may just be the budget amp to get. It also doesn't run like a grill...

Could be the amp I use for helping the Mixamp power my headphones.

http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=14

The Modi may be the USB DAC to get at the price point as well.

That is one lovely looking amp+dac combo for $200.

I'd be tempted on selling the E17 just got get the Magni... but then again, the true portability of t. E17 is convenient.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13
> O. M. G.
> $99, more power than the E9/E9k.
> The Magni may just be the budget amp to get.
> ...


 
   
  How cute!
   
  And oh so cheap.  I don't know enough about amps to be able to tell much from the description or looking at the PCB, but it looks very nice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering the power and price difference, assuming its good, this should be on everyone's priority list as far as amps to pair up with gaming amps. It has a ridiculously low output impedance too. Looks like Schiit is fighting directly with the O2, with more power, cheaper price, better aesthetics and connectivity...

I seriously want it.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Skullcandy has 50% off their entire site right now. REDBULL50 trying to snag a pair of plyr's
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Hmm.. $40 for the slyr, I might give it a shot.... Then I can see how it stacks up against my Ultrasone HS15 headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didnt know my return window was so long for the E17... guess its going back today... and Im ordering the Magni, lol.

Who knows, I might even put the SA-31 and ODAC for sale, and getting that Modi, X1 or K702/65! 

As for the Skullcandy deal, the SLYR for $40 is ridiculous, and everyone looking for a good closed headset should jump on it. SERIOUSLY.


----------



## tml09

Hey everyone.
   
  I'm back in the world of headphones after selling most of my old stuff. I've been through an AD700, HD598, and HD558, all through a Mixamp. After listening to my crappy Logitech 2.0 speakers for the better part of a year, anything is an upgrade. At first, I tried to resist spending more than I deemed necessary ($100 lol). I bought a few pretty subpar headphones, to which my ears responded negatively. I went through a few PC headsets (Corsair 1500, Logitech G35), and they didn't cut the mustard, so I decided on skipping any 'universal' headsets.Now it's time to find a closed set of cans fit for gaming (pc, 360).
   
   
  Fast forward a bit:
   
  After some deliberation, I bought a Beyer DT770. It was well reviewed pretty much everywhere (including here), so I bought one. Initial impressions were good. After the AD700 and the HD598, I finally understood what bass was. The treble was a bit harsh, but not mind-melting. The mids were definitely recessed, but I could deal with that. After all, the main attraction is the 'subwoofer' Beyer somehow managed to fit in these things. They are really comfortable, isolate pretty well, and don't leak enormously.
   
  However, for some reason, these cans just don't agree with me. I'm not alone in feeling this way about the 770s. See here for a post I made in the Headphones forum:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/640876/closed-headphone-blues
   
  Even listening to music, I couldn't take more than 20 minutes of using it. It wasn't the treble that was fatiguing. Something about them just required me to remove them to constantly take a break. I loved their directionality and soundstaging, but I just can't wear these for long without discomfort. Don't get me wrong: they are very comfortable (fluffy padding/clamp-wise), it's something about their signature that doesn't work for me. Why they don't work might have to do with the copious amounts of mind shattering bass, though I can't really pinpoint it.
   
  So, I've decided another pair is in order. If anyone wants to take the DT770 off my hands, pm me. As much as I want them to, they don't agree with me 
   
  Any help with some recommendations? I really don't care for competitive gaming accuracy. While I will be doing some multiplayer (BF3 mainly), I don't care about bass obscuring footsteps. I want a fun pair of cans * I've narrowed my decision down to three: Pro 900, A900x, or the D2000 (if I can find them). I'm also looking for a USB dac/amp to serve for portable use and as a standalone dac, as well as 'home/desktop' amp to power any phones I might get. I'm really eyeing the iBasso D4 and the Objective2 (or a Little Dot amp, still undecided). The Schiit Magni posted above looks kind a cool too.*
   
  I could not find a Mixamp for sale on the Astro site. Almost all ebay auctions included the AX0 headset, which I just plain did not want. I had to 'settle' for a usb Recon3d, since that's what I could find. Not a huge deal, but I'm looking for a Dolby Headphone capable device so I can A/B the two, and compare them for myself I can't stand any noise/hiss, so the DSS and the 720 box are probably out of the question. Looks like I'll have to wait it out for a good deal on a Mixamp. I game from my laptop, so I don't have the luxury of buying a PCI sound card


----------



## Wild

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Considering the power and price difference, assuming its good, this should be on everyone's priority list as far as amps to pair up with gaming amps. It has a ridiculously low output impedance too. Looks like Schiit is fighting directly with the O2, with more power, cheaper price, better aesthetics and connectivity...
> I seriously want it.


 
  Now we just have to find out if it sounds as good.  It looks great on paper though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

We'll find out soon enough, as I have just placed an order for both the Modi and Magni. @_@


----------



## calpis

After about an hour fighting the skullcandy website I finally got in my order for a white pair of the slayers. Their website is god awful slow and their paypal checkout is beyond borked listing completely different items every time I clicked the paypal link, it was basically a lottery. Checked out on the actual site instead which took forever and it seems like it's been like this for almost a week now. Oh well.
   
  @MLE 
  What kind of finish is on the headphone? Is it that soft touch rubbereized plastic coating? I'm not terribly fond of that finish since it'll eventually peel and gets pretty nasty, kinda like my old logitech and razer mice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seems to be the good kind of plastic matte finish, like on the PC360. I don't see them having any issues.

If I were you, or anyone else getting the SLYR, I'd get a nice, longish 3.5mm male/male cable, like those on Amazon. The stock one is fairly short (though thick and durable), assuming you're not using the Mixer cable. Those of us with Mixamps have no need for the mixer.

However, I dunno of any cables you can buy with the mic channel built in.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seems to be the good kind of plastic matte finish, like on the PC360. I don't see them having any issues.
> If I were you, or anyone else getting the SLYR, I'd get a nice, longish 3.5mm male/male cable, like those on Amazon. The stock one is fairly short (though thick and durable), assuming you're not using the Mixer cable. Those of us with Mixamps have no need for the mixer.
> However, I dunno of any cables you can buy with the mic channel built in.


 
   
  I think I remember seeing some at my local flea market. Don't know the actual length but it's either going to be 3 or 6ft and cheaply made.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Id just get a nice long one for when you're not using voice chat if you see the need for a longer cable, and cant get a good one with a mic channel. Im gonna check Amazon or Monoprice later when I get home.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





tml09 said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> I'm back in the world of headphones after selling most of my old stuff. I've been through an AD700, HD598, and HD558, all through a Mixamp. After listening to my crappy Logitech 2.0 speakers for the better part of a year, anything is an upgrade. At first, I tried to resist spending more than I deemed necessary ($100 lol). I bought a few pretty subpar headphones, to which my ears responded negatively. I went through a few PC headsets (Corsair 1500, Logitech G35), and they didn't cut the mustard, so I decided on skipping any 'universal' headsets.Now it's time to find a closed set of cans fit for gaming (pc, 360).
> 
> ...


 
  I've got the mmx 300's (apparently they are re-badged dt770's) and noticed that weird feeling when listening to music with them too. Something about them, made it uncomfortable to listen for too long at higher volumes. I figured it was just because it was a gaming headset. But they REALLY mellowed out for me after a couple hours of play. They must have some sort of "break in" period, but they aren't nearly as harsh anymore. I love them now.
   
  My ie8's still sound better OVERALL, because they are alot more "in your face" so to speak. They seem to play with more authority. They can hit all bass notes with high intensity. 
   
  The mmx's on the other hand really hit some magically high notes that I have never heard before though. And they also have a select few songs where the bass frequency is in the 40-50z range, that they REALLY hit with ease. They seem to sound better every time I put them on.
   
  For me, there is no other option. This IS the best out of box gaming/multimedia headset that I know of. I hear that the modmic's sometimes have compatibility issues with the mixamp, so i said screw it, and just got a headset that is plug and play. Something that is high quality that I won't have to ever worry about replacing or fiddling with.
   
  But definitely get something you can be happy with, and don't settle, especially when it comes to audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The problem I have with the DT770s is that it seals a bit too well, and gives me that cabin pressure like feel when on an airplane. This is one major reason why I don't personally care for closed headphones, especially ones that seal well.

The SLYR and A50s are both closed, but they don't have the best isolation, so I never get that head pressure like I did with the 770s.

The Pro 900s are a solid alternative to the 770s if you need a closed headphone that seals well and has plenty of fun. I just didn't care for it's treble.

I'm really not experienced with closed headphones/headsets in general as I tend to stay away from them almost as much as pleather padded headphones. The Pro 900 is probably my fave of the bunch though. Not counting the D7000 which IS my absolute fave, but rare now, and uber expensive.

The short time I had with the A900x, I was NOT impressed. Even less so with the K550.

edit: WHERE THE HELL ARE MY 3.5MM TO 1/4' ADAPTERS! UGH! I had 3 of them. One went back with the HE400, and my super old Astro one has terrible crosstalk. All that leaves is my Koss one... WHERE ARE YOU, YOU BLASTED THING? I need it to use my SA-31!


----------



## tmaxx123

mad lust envy said:


> The problem I have with the DT770s is that it seals a bit too well, and gives me that cabin pressure like feel when on an airplane. This is one major reason why I don't personally care for closed headphones, especially ones that seal well.
> The SLYR and A50s are both closed, but they don't have the best isolation, so I never get that head pressure like I did with the 770s.
> The Pro 900s are a solid alternative to the 770s if you need a closed headphone that seals well and has plenty of fun. I just didn't care for it's treble.
> I'm really not experienced with closed headphones/headsets in general as I tend to stay away from them almost as much as pleather padded headphones. The Pro 900 is probably my fave of the bunch though. Not counting the D7000 which IS my absolute fave, but rare now, and uber expensive.
> ...




Agreed, the pressure takes a bit getting used to. But I like the isolation. My house gets pretty loud due to having little ones running around and a puppy. Mmx300's put me in my own little world.  

The headset really shines on some music, but is just ok on others. I'll keep updates coming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it seems tomorrow I'll be getting something else from SC/Astro. 

Stay tuned.

In other news, I guess it wasn't the Astro 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter that is messed up. The cable the SLYR is supplied with I guess doesn't like those adapters, probably due to the mic channel. My fault entirely. I hooked up the CAL's extension cable (thin enough to fit into the Slyr's housing) to a male/male 3.5mm cable I had left over from my first gen A40 bundle, and that to the 1/4" adapter. The Slyr is working just perfectly off my SA-31 now. So again, anyone getting a Slyr looking to hook it up to an amp with a 1/4" input will want a decent length standard 3.5mm male/male cable as well as a 1/4" adapter. Do NOT use the 3.5mm cable the SLYR is bundled with, with a 1/4" adapter, as it will just mix the channels together as far as I can tell (using the left/right Windows Sound Test, both channels are directly centered in my head, perhaps turning the Slyr into a Mono headset).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Just grabbed a xonar hdav1.3 card off of ebay and I'm going to build a little computer to try myears with it. I'll report back in the coming weeks how it compares to dolby headphone. Good news, if I don't like myears, the sound card supports dolby headphone out of the box.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Hailin

Talking about the DT770, I am still on track for wanting a pair problem is this pressure you are chatting about. Is it XB700 bad? XB700 is on the list for me of headphones I just can't use due to there claustrophobic nature. I would look at the Pro900 but there is almost a $250 price difference between them in Canada. Also anything with pleather is out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't remember much about XB700 discomfort other than the mess of pleather, heat, and sweat on my skin. That and the stitching digging into my skin.

I find the DT770 very comfy. Just, it does have that closed headphone pressure. Even the M50s have that pressure, and I LOVE their comfort (post headband stretch).

edit:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqCcBo-gR5E[/VIDEO]

^Sounds so sweet on the SLYR. There are just some things the SLYR does hella right. Her vocals on the CAL are considerably pushed back in comparison. I never considered the CAL to be recessed in the vocals, but it sounds like it next to the SLYR. The overall tone on the CAL is warmer, and easier on the ears (as everything has like a relaxed tone to it, and pushed back), but the SLYR grabs your attention. The SLYR lacks refinement next to the CAL (it sounds super busy when all the instruments kick in, where the CAL spreads the instruments apart better), but I prefer the SLYR's signature for this song.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just read Jude's entry on his Holiday Guide for the SLYR...



> GAMING HEADSETS
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Coincidental that we have very similar opinions on the SLYR. I'll get in a few hours of CoD4 with the SLYR, and I literally have zero complaints. I mean, even though soundstage is small compared to what I'm used to, and there is better in terms of refinement and clarity, the SLYR is so inoffensive in it's sound, and engaging, I don't even think about those headphones I consider better than it. The SLYR is just a workhorse of a headphone with a signature that pleases on all fronts. I said it once, I prefer the SLYR's sound signature to the PC360. The PC360 has noticeably better depth, width, clarity, and balance, but lacks the raw energy and emotion of the Slyr. The PC360 is almost boring (which is sort of a good thing for what it's trying to accomplish), whereas the SLYR is always entertaining without glaring faults. It's NEVER boring.


----------



## tml09

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> Agreed, the pressure takes a bit getting used to. But I like the isolation. My house gets pretty loud due to having little ones running around and a puppy. Mmx300's put me in my own little world.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I must be so used to open headphones, then. The 770s seal really well, so that must be the reason for the discomfort. I've worn them on and off for about 2 hours every day for the past 4 days. I still can't say they're I've gotten used to them yet. I'll give them another week and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then I'm probably going with the Pro 900 or A900x. 
   
  MLE, was there any particular reason the A900x was unimpressive? A lot of the reviews I've read have commented on their good soundstage and overall balanced sound (with actual bass presence!), so I was thinking it would be a good candidate. For reference, I loved the AD700, but I need something closed with some more punch. The HD598s were certainly an upgrade, and they were amazing for competitive, but lacked in the 'fun' department (like the AD700). I really want to try the Q701, but I'm stuck with closed headphones for the time being. All I care about is [rebecca black] fun fun fun fun [/rebecca black].
   
  As for ampage (for the time being) I'm probably going to buy an E17 for use as a DAC and portable amp, and wait to buy an O2 or Magni, pending reviews. I'm going to try and find a DSS or something, just so I can A/B the Recon3d with it. I think the 3d is fine, but I've got nothing to compare it to, save for my memories of the Mixamp.


----------



## lyrill

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay a few replies.
> 
> I play mostly on the 360.
> 
> ...


 
  how odd, every game devs start becoming edgy and trippy at the end of the world year. nobody sits down and make real music any more it seems. like i h eard that music presence is non existent in AC3. that is a solid no payment for me.


----------



## lolwatpear

got the slyr for $40.  seems like a great deal.


----------



## ronswanson

Any idea when the Plyr 1 will be out?  It sounds like that will come with a virtual surround sound device of some sort.


----------



## Evshrug

tml09 said:


> Hey everyone.
> 
> I'm back in the world of headphones after selling most of my old stuff. I've been through an AD700, HD598, and HD558, all through a Mixamp. After listening to my crappy Logitech 2.0 speakers for the better part of a year, anything is an upgrade. At first, I tried to resist spending more than I deemed necessary ($100 lol). I bought a few pretty subpar headphones, to which my ears responded negatively. I went through a few PC headsets (Corsair 1500, Logitech G35), and they didn't cut the mustard, so I decided on skipping any 'universal' headsets.Now it's time to find a closed set of cans fit for gaming (pc, 360).
> 
> ...




An interesting purchase path. As for closed headphones, I'd say it's worth finding out if it's the closed nature that bothers you. I understand that the pitter-patter of little feet (etc) can be distracting, but dropping a ton of money on something you don't want to use for very long because they're uncomfortable could arguably be worse than occasional distractions. Do you get the same kind of discomfort without music playing, just when the air pressure changes from the driver compressing air at your ear, or with particular songs that are bass heavy? Number two gets me regularly.

Don't over think that last sentence (*snort*).

I was going to recommend you also put the AKG 270 (whatever version) on your list, though I haven't heard it (nor have most of us) and it seems to have a frequency response very similar to the AD700 (so, not more bassy). Meanwhile, the recording studio staple AKG 240 actually has quite high bass response levels, so if semi-open is alright these could be well worth looking into. Recommended solely based on my enjoyment of AKG's Q701. Mad's review of the SLYR makes that sound like a contender, as well.

I find the Recon3D remarkably quiet for background hiss, how do you like it? I think it's pretty nice overall, though the listening experience is greatly enhanced by a quality headphone amp after the Recon3D in line. As far as what that amp is and what you listed, the O2 is highly regarded and we're all munching on popcorn waiting for Mad's impression of the new Schiit budget desktop amp, but then the Little Dot amps are a different animal and quite good in their own way. My class-A tube amp is a bit finicky (can't plug it into a power strip with a noise-suppression circuit, I get a loud hum, also I have to buy a voltmeter to bias my aftermarket NOS tube correctly since I can't quite get both channels right by ear), *but* I absolutely love the sound from it at it's best, I feel like going from AD700 + Recon3D ---vs--- Q701 + Tube amp + Recon3D is quite an improvement, the Q finally has a round instead of oval soundstage, better dynamics, presence, bass, instrument separation... I'd be in heaven with my Amperex tube if only I had the right channel biased evenly, and I think the Little Dot would already have that figured out. Food for thought anyway.



axelcloris said:


> The braiding isn't difficult normally, but it does add a bit of challenge when you include the modmic line. So I added a couple of pieces of tape to hold them together while braiding. As for sound, as long as you're not doing it too tightly you'll run into no sound issues. Mic is perfectly clear, sound isn't impacted at all. But once you make it too tight, you'll strain the cabling inside and can permanently damage the cables. As for learning, there's info here on the forums on how to braid a cable, or you can look on youtube for video instructions. I learned in one of the many M50 threads.




Dude, thanks for the info. Too bad there's a ton of M50 threads... I'll try and search it later, but I feel I might take as long to find a tutorial as it would take to figure it out by looking @ your pic. But, now I know that braiding at all is a viable option (if not done too tightly). Tanks again!



mad lust envy said:


> We'll find out soon enough, as I have just placed an order for both the Modi and Magni. @_@




Yes! YES! Though I'm not sure you'll hear a difference between the Schiit DAC (was that the Modi?) and the ODAC. Did you ever test the ODAC + E17 ---vs--- E17 in DAC/Amp mode, and hear a difference?



tml09 said:


> I must be so used to open headphones, then. The 770s seal really well, so that must be the reason for the discomfort. I've worn them on and off for about 2 hours every day for the past 4 days. I still can't say they're I've gotten used to them yet. I'll give them another week and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, then I'm probably going with the Pro 900 or A900x.
> 
> MLE, was there any particular reason the A900x was unimpressive? A lot of the reviews I've read have commented on their good soundstage and overall balanced sound (with actual bass presence!), so I was thinking it would be a good candidate. For reference, I loved the AD700, but I need something closed with some more punch. The HD598s were certainly an upgrade, and they were amazing for competitive, but lacked in the 'fun' department (like the AD700). I really want to try the Q701, but I'm stuck with closed headphones for the time being. All I care about is [rebecca black] fun fun fun fun [/rebecca black].
> 
> As for ampage (for the time being) I'm probably going to buy an E17 for use as a DAC and portable amp, and wait to buy an O2 or Magni, pending reviews. I'm going to try and find a DSS or something, just so I can A/B the Recon3d with it. I think the 3d is fine, but I've got nothing to compare it to, save for my memories of the Mixamp.




Hello again, tml09
I A/B'd the recon3D USB with the Silent Cinema built into my receiver, I would be interested to hear your comparison & contrast in addition to MLE's.

I think I can guess one stand-out reason the A900x weren't for Mad... he hates AT's wings. If that didn't bug you with the AD700, then you'd probably get more Milage - the wings didn't bother me, though I wished the earcup top/bottom would pivot so that they would fit more flush. Then I tried a rubber band connecting the wings, got a perfect tension with my first rubber band try, and IMO they're more comfy than the Q701 for me now, because they're light and still don't demand your attention with pressure. I still can't seem to let my AD700 go, even though I have 2 headphones for the same purpose and overall prefer the Q701's increase in quality. Back to the A900x, I read what Mad said else he didn't like about them... I think it was still a bit bass shy or something, but I'm confident he'll tell you himself.

I hear what you say about the AD700 being fun yet bass shy, and I tried a number of closed headphones with more bass plus the ability to feel air move with the driver excursion, but my taste found the semi-open/closed headphone to be the best balance of bass/physical presence with refinement/non-fatiguing. Hopefully, you find your best balance. During your next week with the DT770s, definitely leave them playing for 3-5 hours a few times, even if you aren't there to listen, so that you know for yourself if it just needed some "breaking-in" or "burn-in" time.

GL HF!


----------



## Evshrug

Oh no, a very long post to double-dip. Sry.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> If you say so. I did expound on this in a later post. Right, because they don't at all. Try Uncharted. That's a big difference. Woah, you're going way too far. I never said that. I don't have any exceptional type of ear. Just by saying sorry after typing something, although it wasn't that bad, doesn't make it just fine. I'm somewhat serious, yes. Okay. Why wouldn't it? I'm not exactly looking for an advantage. I want fidelity. Nope. Hmm, interesting. I'm all ears.




"Ok. No. Yes. Well I disagree. You have a point there..."
No offense SoAmusing777, and I do understand the points both of you two are making in this exchange (Seeking fidelity vs diminishing returns, the standard YMMV scenario), but sometimes I have to reread your replies a few times to get where you're responding to what, and in this particular post I'm not even sure exactly where each response matches up with the original post. For clarity, I usually put related ideas together and write a more general reply, with a paragraph per idea, instead of a bunch of point-by-point responses in line. If you could at least insert bolded responses into text you are replying to, it could help others (or at least me) follow along better. I'm not saying anything about you or the topic of the quoted text, I'm just saying help a guy with short attention-spans (me) out 

P.S. what I said in quotation marks wasn't in reply to your post, it was just an example of a bunch of fragmented sentences strung together.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> "Ok. No. Yes. Well I disagree. You have a point there..."
> No offense SoAmusing777, and I do understand the points both of you two are making in this exchange (Seeking fidelity vs diminishing returns, the standard YMMV scenario), but sometimes I have to reread your replies a few times to get where you're responding to what, and in this particular post I'm not even sure exactly where each response matches up with the original post. For clarity, I usually put related ideas together and write a more general reply, with a paragraph per idea, instead of a bunch of point-by-point responses in line. If you could at least insert bolded responses into text you are replying to, it could help others (or at least me) follow along better. I'm not saying anything about you or the topic of the quoted text, I'm just saying help a guy with short attention-spans (me) out
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I second this, I was having such a hard time trying to figure it out I just started skipping over your reply's. 
   
  I need to head to Best Buy and try out some of their open headphones, I'm starting to get curious about how they will differ from my closed Koss TBSE and my on ear Sennheisers. I've come to the conclusion that I don't like being unable to hear whats going on around me.. like my wife sneaking up on me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, handy for airplanes though.


----------



## Evshrug

The best buy near me (and apparently Mad as well) has recently expanded their headphone lineup, which is good. Some stores with Magnolia apparently even let you demo the high-end headphones! The demo stations are great, but remember, they're like rental cars and people are dumb, so don't expect them to be 100% accurate to a fresh pair. I saw AT A900x and AKG K550 headphones at mine, although those weren't set up for in-store listening. Next time I need to make a large-ish purchase (NVIDIA GTX 6xx series GPU?) maybe I'll "borrow" a pair of headphones too, so I don't completely abuse the physical store 

Remember, no h8 towards SoAmusing, it's just that sentence fragments can be misunderstood.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Didnt know my return window was so long for the E17... guess its going back today... and Im ordering the Magni, lol.
> Who knows, I might even put the SA-31 and ODAC for sale, and getting that Modi, X1 or K702/65!
> As for the Skullcandy deal, the SLYR for $40 is ridiculous, and everyone looking for a good closed headset should jump on it. SERIOUSLY.


 
   
  Wow, it seems like you've had the E17 for a while now.
   
  The Magni looks worth trying.  If it were me, I would probably hang on to the ODAC for a while.  The Modi may look sexier, but it seems like You-Know-Who spent a ton time tweaking and reiterating the ODAC, going through several revisions to squeeze the most out of it possible.  I doubt the Modi got as much TLC paid to its individual components.  /Speculation
   
  Of course, DACs sound pretty damn similar past a certain point.


----------



## tml09

Thanks for the awesome response, Evshrug. My discomfort with the 770s seems to stem from my lack of experience with any low frequencies lol. I've never had any bass heavy (or closed) cans, nor have I ever owned a subwoofer (apartment life <--- the reason I got into headphones). I'll do exactly what you suggest, and let them burn in over the course of the week. I'll give them another shot. I'm not going to discount other cans, though. Who knows, I might find something better 
   
  I don't see much info online about the K270s and gaming. They might be good. I'll look into them some more. The SLYR looks ok for gaming; they probably aren't comparable to 'serious' cans for music. The most intriguing of the bunch seems to be the K550. Here's a review that mentions that they are really nice for gaming:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/599170/akg-k550-review-essentially-a-closed-back-k702-literally
   
  I might pick these up soon, along with a dolby headphone device.
   
  Also, I like the Recon3d well enough. It's pretty decent in emulating surround, and it's pretty much noise-free. I can pinpoint front and back easy enough in Far Cry 3. I mean to try it with some Battlefield 3 and hopefully COD-something-or-other (I think Modern Warfare is the only one I've kept). I've alternated putting my lowly CmoyBB inline after the Recon3d. The difference was very audible (clearer and somewhat more spacious), but since I'm not 100 pct comfortable with the Beyers yet, it was a little much bass-wise. I'll probably pick up a DSS off of ebay for cheap and see how they compare. For comparison's sake, I think the DSS might do just fine. I'm not big on using a mic online, so if I get a relatively noise-free DSS, I think I could live with it. The Mixamp would be more ideal, though, just because I'm more familiar with it (and it doesn't suffer from hiss). For only $65 on Amazon (through J&R), the Recon3d is an affordable alternative to the Mixamp (if you've never heard one, I guess). When I do order the DSS (or if a good deal pops up on a Mixamp), I'll be sure to post some impressions about their differences.
   
  I recently bought an E17 to use as a portable amp for inlining with my Recon3d and as a portable amp. It will also serve well enough as an all-purpose amp till I scrounge up some cash for a decent desktop amp (Objective2, Little Dot, or the *ooooooh* Magni, pending reviews). 
   
  I guessed that MLE might have had some disdain for the wings on the A900x after glancing at the previous pages. I really didn't mind them on the AD700s, but I imagine the A900x weighs more. Everyone on the forums is complaining about the wings, but I've got a relatively big head, so they might just work


----------



## catspaw

Lucky for me my competitive gmaing is in RTS games where directionality is somewhat secondary (a decent regular stereo can help you locate sounds on a big map), and i am leaning towards the HE-400. Cant wait to run ME2, Dragon Age1 or Summoner 1 on my Lapptop wih the E17 as a DAC .


----------



## AlBorland

+1 for the $40 SLYR.  I wrote SkullCandy off a while ago, interesting developments there from what I've been reading.  After reading everything MLE said about them, I'm getting antsy to receive them.  I posted earlier and didn't get a response (it was a bit longwinded), but I had recently picked up an original DSS to pair with my x12's.  Any comparison you can make between the two (x12+DSS vs. SLYR) so I can know what to expect?  Is the Mixamp 5.8 a must? 
  I'm hoping I can find a way to have both headsets fully working (with chat) simultaneously on my 360, so we'll see.


----------



## Tuny

you should test the AD900


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tuny said:


> you should test the AD900




Probably not gonna happen. I hate the wing design, and I hear their positioning isn't as good as the AD700s. I mean, I'm sure they're still good, but I wouldn't go out of my way to get them.

In other news...





A40 vs A50!

Mixamp 2013 hiss vs Mixamp 5.8 hiss. If they are even remotely similar, I won't call the Mixamp 2013's hiss anything worth noting, compared to the AX720's hiss.

By the way Chico, I bought this E17 on November 11 (my second one). I would have been out of Micca's return period, but I guess the holidays have extended periods.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp 2013 hiss vs Mixamp 5.8 hiss. If they are even remotely similar, I won't call the Mixamp 2013's hiss anything worth noting, compared to the AX720's hiss.


 
   
   
  Yes, please get to the bottom of that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have to sleep and work, but I'll be on that tomorrow. I'll even use the KSC35 as the one to test hiss.


----------



## Evshrug

alborland said:


> +1 for the $40 SLYR.  I wrote SkullCandy off a while ago, interesting developments there from what I've been reading.  After reading everything MLE said about them, I'm getting antsy to receive them.  I posted earlier and didn't get a response (it was a bit longwinded), but I had recently picked up an original DSS to pair with my x12's.  Any comparison you can make between the two (x12+DSS vs. SLYR) so I can know what to expect?  Is the Mixamp 5.8 a must?
> I'm hoping I can find a way to have both headsets fully working (with chat) simultaneously on my 360, so we'll see.




Just so you don't feel ignored...
The DSS should be fine if you don't feel like e background hiss is annoying. The DSS/Mixamp/Et al are just for the surround processing, and all can benefit from adding an amp with more demanding headphones. The main thing between em is hiss, and what processing method they use (Mixamp and DSS v1 both use Dolby Headphone). Oh, and the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't require wires reaching to the console (just next to you), but my mileage on that is that I don't really mind wires. If you HAVE to have wireless, IMO the Mixamp 5.8 is the best choice (despite reportedly mild hiss) because it doesn't lock you into a particular headphone & you can still add an amp. I haven't heard either Mixamp tho. 

I like my Recon3D cuz the surround profile works for me, I hear ZERO hiss even at 100% volume with my 32 Ohm AD700 (nor AKG Q701), it's a USB soundcard for my Mac & Windows desktop too, and the price was right  Also, you guys can call me crazy, but I was just playing CoD4 in Scout mode... surprisingly enjoying it. It took a match to get used to hearing footsteps and enviro crap loud, but it was much easier to instinctively know someone was near without concentrating, and gunshots/explosions were less distracting. Now, I wouldn't use Scout mode during campaign or with music, but it was in fatiguing and mildly useful. I suspect it might even help use a "fun" headphone for sounds horsing competitively. Not bad...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Problem is, the DSS won't work with non-TB headsets. No mic capabilities.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Problem is, the DSS won't work with non-TB headsets. No mic capabilities.




True. Though I just use a cheapo 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter and plug my mic directly into the Xbox controller. I'm sure there's a workaround for PS3 as well?

Btw, do you have any idea why I couldn't use my FiiO E5 to amp my lapel mic?


----------



## tml09

http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamps/mixamp-pro-2013-edition
   
  Just placed an order


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FINALLY, in stock.


----------



## ruuku

Goodness... it seems they have seen the light, and are offering free ground shipping. I might actually buy an Astro product(s) directly from Astro now.


----------



## ronswanson

well, that went fast:
   


> The Mixamp Pro 2013 Edition product is out of stock and cannot be purchased at this time. Please remove it and retry your checkout. We apologise for any inconvenience.


----------



## Evshrug

LoL!
Sorry, it's not that I wish against you finding one, but it is funny they went out of stock so fast!
Or. Maybe, they just put up the page, but haven't enabled ordering yet?


----------



## AlBorland

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Just so you don't feel ignored...
> The DSS should be fine if you don't feel like e background hiss is annoying. The DSS/Mixamp/Et al are just for the surround processing, and all can benefit from adding an amp with more demanding headphones. The main thing between em is hiss, and what processing method they use (Mixamp and DSS v1 both use Dolby Headphone). Oh, and the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't require wires reaching to the console (just next to you), but my mileage on that is that I don't really mind wires. If you HAVE to have wireless, IMO the Mixamp 5.8 is the best choice (despite reportedly mild hiss) because it doesn't lock you into a particular headphone & you can still add an amp. I haven't heard either Mixamp tho.
> I like my Recon3D cuz the surround profile works for me, I hear ZERO hiss even at 100% volume with my 32 Ohm AD700 (nor AKG Q701), it's a USB soundcard for my Mac & Windows desktop too, and the price was right
> 
> ...


 
   
  As I said, I get a bit lost in details and ask a lot of questions, so understandable if I get overlooked 
   
  Thanks for the response.  The surround processing is the most important aspect for me right now.  So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the x12+DSS is going to get me better directional/distance sound than the SLYR, until I pair the SLYR with another processor.  And with that, I could use the DSS with SLYR, but will lose voice capabilities going that route?  I don't care too much about wireless, since I've got a million wires as is, what might be my best(cheapest) option to pair with the SLYR?  The Mixamp 5.8, Pro, maybe the Tritton ax720?  Is this thing even legit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tritton-Ax-720-AX720-Decoder-Box-Control-Box-/251191668504?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3a7c30af18 ?
   
  Sorry again for the million questions, I really do appreciate the responses.


----------



## ruuku

Be careful... that listing is for the decoder box ONLY. You'll still need to get the inline remote to be able to use your own headphones (via 3.5mm). I still have my AX720 DB, though its the older 5.1 version. If you're interested shoot me a PM. 
You might be able to use a mono price inline remote with it.... the connector LOOKs the same (9pin) but I'm not 100%.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, I just ordered a mixamp about an hour ago. Apparently my order went through. I'm going to try it for a bit and see what the hubbub is about. I'll probably need another amp to power up my headphones though.
   
  I'm thinking about the magni but I don't quite know how I'm going to connect that to the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp - headphone jack - 3.5mm male to rca male cable - Magni's RCA input

The only thing that worries me about the Magni is that it has a gain of 5. Not sure it will be enough, compared to an E9K which has a gain of 12 in high gain. The Magni is quite a bit more powerful with higher impedance than the E9K, so perhaps it offsets the lower gain.

Just worrisome, as my SA-31 is like many E9Ks put together, yet the lower gain makes it not as loud.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, let me know how that works out. Depending on your impressions I may or may not order one. Meanwhile I might look into other options. I might end up buying the AVR anyway (just not a very expensive one).
   
  I still haven't bought a pair of headphones. I'm still thinking about the DT Pro 80 ohm version. I'll probably pick up a used pair off amazon. It'll save me the "break in" period and If I end up not liking it at least I won't have as big of a buyer's remorse...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well my worries are mostly when adding voice chat, and not the Magni's ability to drive a headphone. The Magni should be fine for the vast majority. Just, dunno about driving headphones loud if you have a large tip towards voice chat on something like a Mixamp.


----------



## lubczyk

I tried a friend's Astro A40's 2013 Edition and wow, the mixamp is hissy!!!
   
  Is there a no-hiss solution anywhere with dolby headphone?
   
  Even disregarding voice chat, is there an affordable hiss-free solution? I consider my Fiio E17 to be nearly silent with a very low hiss if I really listen to it, but acceptable. It doesn't do Dolby Headphone though. Is there a AV Reciever with Dolby Headphone that is hiss free?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I doubt receivers would introduce hiss. And I dunno about you but the E17 is dead silent. No way that any hiss coming off it would ever be an issue. USB noise was probable though, as I have a few noisy usb ports.

The first gen Mixamp was almost hiss free. Perhaps even the Mixamp Pro (pre-2013).

Im not too worried about hiss, as when youre in the middle of a match, hiss is such a non-issue, even on the hissy AX720.


----------



## lolwatpear

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> I tried a friend's Astro A40's 2013 Edition and wow, the mixamp is hissy!!!
> 
> Is there a no-hiss solution anywhere with dolby headphone?
> 
> Even disregarding voice chat, is there an affordable hiss-free solution? I consider my Fiio E17 to be nearly silent with a very low hiss if I really listen to it, but acceptable. It doesn't do Dolby Headphone though. Is there a AV Reciever with Dolby Headphone that is hiss free?


 
   i get no hiss at all at with my Yamaha RX-V373.  It's not dolby headphone, but their own proprietary version of headphone surround sound.
[size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I've owned the HD558's for around 2 month's now, and I must say I am very impressed with the upgrade to audiophile grade headphones.

For music I keep hearing small details in tracks that I never heard before like how drum beats are much more pronounced. However I keep wondering if I would prefer the bass to be more pronounced or not. 
Keep in mind I never heard a set of bass focused headphones without the mids and highs getting muffled so i,m still slighty hesitant about trying out another set.

For gaming I felt more immersed which was the goal of these but I'll wait till I get the DSS before I judge this section.

In terms of comfort these are much better then the other headsets I tried like the turtle beach px21's or the siberia v2's, the velor padding feels very nice on my head. 

While some people seem turned off by the look of these I personally love the more classic style they where going for.

Overall sennheiser made a great first impression on me and I feel I got more then my moneys worth on them.

Sorry if this review came out like crap I don't do these very often.


----------



## Impulse

Nah man, it's cool, I think a lot of gamers have the same reaction when they stop dicking around with some of the overpriced headsets or PC speakers out there and they move on to quality headphones and/or real speakers. A lot of gaming peripheral companies have been milking that market for years with mediocre products... I'm actually glad to see stuff like the SC Slyr stepping it up in that regard.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> I tried a friend's Astro A40's 2013 Edition and wow, the mixamp is hissy!!!
> 
> Is there a no-hiss solution anywhere with dolby headphone?
> 
> Even disregarding voice chat, is there an affordable hiss-free solution? I consider my Fiio E17 to be nearly silent with a very low hiss if I really listen to it, but acceptable. It doesn't do Dolby Headphone though. Is there a AV Reciever with Dolby Headphone that is hiss free?


 
  I have a H&K avr-247 (which has DH) and I get no hiss.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Don't know if anyone asked this but does anyone use their set of cans for any other games besides online shooter's.

It's been bugging me for awhile since just about every headphone\headset review (for gaming) always talks about the next big FPS. Not that it's a bad thing, I just think that other genres deserve some love as well like horror.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course. I use my cans for more games than just FPS. The main reason I specifically mention FPS (and third person shooters) games, is because they are the ones that hold the most importance in terms of positional cues. Other types of games don't tend to highlight positional cues as well.

Most of the games I play AREN'T shooters, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Don't know if anyone asked this but *does anyone use their set of cans for any other games besides online shooter's.*
> It's been bugging me for awhile since just about every headphone\headset review (for gaming) always talks about the next big FPS. Not that it's a bad thing, I just think that other genres deserve some love as well like horror.


 
   
   
  Uhh... Yeah. 
   
  One example, http://www.head-fi.org/t/600290/the-official-horror-game-thread-lets-put-those-headphones-to-good-use
   
  The "online shooter" people are just more vocal and come into this thread and others specifically looking for gaming headsets, saying something like, "I need a good gaming headset for COD."  Gaming headsets are usually marketed towards "Pro, MLG, Elite, Hardcore" gamers, which is tied to competitive shooters.  So the reviews for those headsets then usually mention the shooters as well.
   
  To be fair, shooters usually test out a headphones/headsets soundstage and positioning, so they are worth mentioning for that point at least.
   
   
   
  The people in the market for gaming headsets often don't know to look any further than them.  They're usually the ones less likely to venture out past "gaming headsets" and into the world of Hi-Fi headphones. 
   
  To make an analogy to music: People who only listen one genre like Pop music sometimes don't know anything better exists than their iBuds or whatever else is available from best buy (Beats, SkullCandy).  That's sort of the equivalent to gamers who only play on genre of Shooters and don't know anything exists beyond Turtle Beach, Tritton, Astro and whatever else gets reviewed buy gaming sites and sold at Best Buy.
   
   
  People who are willing to do the research _and _then save up their hard earned money for a higher end headphones/amps/dacs/etc. are probably already more appreciative of audio in general.  They are hopefully smart enough to realize that investing in that kind of gear is going to be overkill for just online shooters, and are planning to use it for other genres of games as well as music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Upon unboxing the A40+Mixamp 2013 bundle, I'm greeted by a very lovely looking Mixamp (SO much better looking and feeling than the first gen).

What it comes with:

A40 headset (with removable speaker tags, though I don't hear much of a difference between having them on or off).

Mixamp 2013 Edition

Microphone for the headset

Male Y cable to allow the A40s to attach to a PC. *This is NOT a female Y cable that will allow use of other headsets with the Mixamp, so make sure to order your own if that is the case.*

Optical cable (fairly lengthy AND of good quality.... not like the flimsy, short optical cable that came with the Mixamp 5.8. One end is of the mini optical variety to directly connect to the Mixamp)

2.5mm Controller cable (for 360)

3.5mm cable with a mic mute switch for connecting directly to the A40s. (very nice to have a removable cable)

3.5mm male/male cable (apparently for connecting an MP3, but obviously works for anything)

USB to mini USB (I have a million so I'll leave this one alone)


All the cables are of good quality.

Looks good so far.

Things I have to note... if you sit far from your setup, you're gonna need your own long USB cable, and long optical cable (as well as getting a mini optical adapter). None of the cables supplied are long enough to have the Mixamp next to you if you are some distance away from your consoles.

Still, not happy that the Mixamp only has one optical input. Most gamers have MORE than one game system, so it's a hassle to constantly unplug just to switch to the other system. They need to rectify this with the next Mixamp model. We need more inputs, not less.

One impressive thing, is that the A50s don't seem much heavier than the A40, yet it has DH built in directly to the headset.

Note: Doesn't look like the A40s accept any other cable other than the one supplied, as I tried the Slyr and other cables, and none work. The A40 cable is 4 channels (I assume one is for the Stream channel), and the plug is pretty long. So you'll have to use the A40 cable, though an extension cable works fine if you're not using voice chat.

quick impression of sound for music (through my ODAC > SA-31)

I already feel it sounds better than the A50. It sounds airier, and less bloated in the bass. It definitely sounds better than I remember of the first gen A40s. It has a nicely balanced sound, whereas the old A40s were hollow, and lacking bass, and the A50s are muddy and bass bloated in comparison. I'll call it early and say the A40s are gonna be better than the A50s. The mids are considerably distant compared to the SLYR, and the SLYR has more bass impact, while still remaining tight. The soundstage on the A40 in stereo is pretty good.

So far, and surprisingly, I STILL prefer the SLYR's sound signature.

I have a feeling the A40s will be better for gaming than the SLYR though.



I will at least be able to compare all three headsets at the same time:

PS3 to A50
A50's optical out to Mixamp 5.8 - Slyr
Mixamp 5.8's optical out to Mixamp 2013 - A40


*edit: Just compared Mixamp 5.8 hiss vs Mixamp 2013 hiss. They are similar. Meaning, they are non-issues! They certainly aren't AX720 level of hissy.*

The Mic on the A40 is damn good. Zero complaints.

*edit 2: Not even close. The A40s walk all over the A50s. I mean, seriously. Hooked up the A40s to the 5.8 and Mixamp Pro, and the A50s sound... sad next to it.*


----------



## lubczyk

Wow! I wonder How the Plyr 2 stacks up to the A50. I know the A50 is more expensive, but the PLYR 2 looks more sensibly built. I like the look of the PLYR 2 more.


----------



## burritoboy9984

lubczyk said:


> I tried a friend's Astro A40's 2013 Edition and wow, the mixamp is hissy!!!
> 
> Is there a no-hiss solution anywhere with dolby headphone?
> 
> *Even disregarding voice chat, is there an affordable hiss-free solution?* I consider my Fiio E17 to be nearly silent with a very low hiss if I really listen to it, but acceptable. It doesn't do Dolby Headphone though. Is there a AV Reciever with Dolby Headphone that is hiss free?




As already said, I would suggest a AVR receiver. I have a Marantz SR5002 and I think it even sounds more detailed, clear and open than the Mixamp I have.

-Erik


----------



## DoctaCosmos

soamusing, what i think of you.


----------



## lubczyk

So does the Skullcandy Slyr come with a Dolby Headphone processor for consoles or do you have to use your own? I've read that it's USB-only out of the box and you need your own Dolby Headphone processor to hook up to console for Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the A40s are pretty good for gaming, so far. Not 100% sure on positioning yet, but balance is good. The Mixamp EQ presets are good, but I stick to the top right, which is flat. Top left is Pro mode which lowers bass and raises detail, but I didn't find it necessary.

There is a point on the volume knob (around 60-65%) where there is a noticeable crackle/distortion when turning the knob. It is always in the same spot. It doesn't affect anything, just when turning the knob and passing that point. I dunno if it's just something that happens with this specific Mixamp I got. Just wanted to note it.

Anyone else with a 2013 Mixamp hear this crackle? Just keep turning the volume past this point and back.

So I am pleased with the A40s. Not PC360 great, but it is a legit headset. I need to test more for positional cues. Right now, I'm not keen on ANY of the headphones I have on hand, for pure positional cues. They are all merely good on the positional cue front (with Dolby Headphone). I guess I'm just too used to open headphones, and going back to closed headsets like this takes some getting used to. At worst, the A50's are about a 6 for both fun and competitive (decent). At best, the A40s get a 7.5 for competitive, the SLYR gets at 7. For fun, the SLYR gets a 7.5, and A40 gets a 7. This are numbers made up on the spot, and don't reflect final scores. 7s are GOOD, 7.5s are almost great. Remember, these are PERSONAL scores, and not ones to compare to one another. A K701 with a 6.5 still sounds considerably better than the A40's even though they are a 7. This is why I say NOT to compare scores unless I specifically mention it.

I do feel the A40s are better performers for gaming than the SLYR, as the SLYR's soundstage can't quite match the A40's.

I'm glad to see that my worries about the A40s have been mostly baseless. Glad I held back on OLD A40 review. They WERE my very first gaming headphone/headset, and was at a time when I wasn't too experienced (well not experieneced at all) with all of this.



lubczyk said:


> So does the Skullcandy Slyr come with a Dolby Headphone processor for consoles or do you have to use your own? I've read that it's USB-only out of the box and you need your own Dolby Headphone processor to hook up to console for Dolby Headphone.




The SLYR doesn't have a Dolby Processor, but it does come with a 3.5mm cable that you can hook up to the Mixamp and works just as easily as the A40s on it. It does have it's own stereo mixer, but you don't have to use it, and opt out for the 3.5mm cable instead.

I don't know how to recommend it, other than for those that play in stereo, and those who have a processor without a headset. If you don't have any, I'd say it's probably best to save up for the A40 bundle, which is better suited for gaming from what I've heard so far. I still do prefer the SLYR for everything else, and they are still good for gaming. Still, is is assuming you have no setup.

Mixamp + SLYR = $210 or so.

Mixamp + A40 bundle = $250

Mixamp + A30 = $200 (and I definitely wanna hear them at some point, because if they are good, they may be the best cost effective Mixamp solution).

Again, this is early impressions on the A40s. I do like them for gaming quite a bit, SO FAR. Not as much for music, which I prefer the SLYR pretty definitively.

PC360 is still the best headset overall that I have heard. The combination of balance and open design put it quite a bit ahead for me.

I do find the A40s better than the AX720.


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> The SLYR doesn't have a Dolby Processor, but it does come with a 3.5mm cable that you can hook up to the Mixamp and works just as easily as the A40s on it. It does have it's own stereo mixer, but you don't have to use it, and opt out for the 3.5mm cable instead.




Can you hook up other headphones to the stereo mixer? Can you take pics with how to hook it up plz? Looking for options to mix game and xbox live sound for use with my receiver still.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have to test it out first, as I couldn't get the Mixer's voice chat to work last time I tried. I'll try it again tomorrow. I need sleep, lol.

It has an RCA out (for audio), USB (for power, PS3 or PC chat), and controller input (for 360 chat).

It has a standard 3.5mm input for headphones, so any headphone can be used, though if you want a non-Slyr or Astro mic, you may wanna have a female Y cable, like those Astro sells.

My assumption on hooking it up, basically just getting an RCA female to 3.5mm male to hook up to your own dolby processors. I don't have one, so I can't use the Mixer with my Mixamp (pointless, but it does allow me to use the Mixer's EQ to test out). For stereo gamers, you just plug in the console's RCA cables into the piggyback on the Slyr's Mixer cable. Not 100% sure how the piggyback cables work exactly. I did get sound by hooking up the PS3's composite cables directly to the piggybacks and leaving the male ends alone.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Can you hook up other headphones to the stereo mixer? Can you take pics with how to hook it up plz? Looking for options to mix game and xbox live sound for use with my receiver still.
> -Erik


 
  I;ll give it a shot and hook it up to my H&K when I get them in on tuesday. I'd just have to hook up those piggy back cables to a 3.5mm to RCA cable and attach a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter to it and plug it into the headphone jack. I'm anticipating hiss though.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *edit: Just compared Mixamp 5.8 hiss vs Mixamp 2013 hiss. They are similar. Meaning, they are non-issues! They certainly aren't AX720 level of hissy.*


 
   
  Thanks.
   
  So, hissier than the previous gen wired mixamp, but about the same as the mixamp 5.8, which means less than DSS and AX720.
   
  Sounds like people were probably exaggerating the hiss issue by listetning to the mixamp at the dashboard turned up too loudly...
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There is a point on the volume knob (around 60-65%) where there is a noticeable crackle/distortion when turning the knob. It is always in the same spot. It doesn't affect anything, just when turning the knob and passing that point. I dunno if it's just something that happens with this specific Mixamp I got. Just wanted to note it.
> Anyone else with a 2013 Mixamp hear this crackle? Just keep turning the volume past this point and back.


 
   
  I"m guessing it's a dirty spot on the potentiometer.  As the wiper moves past it you hear crackle.


----------



## burritoboy9984

calpis said:


> I;ll give it a shot and hook it up to my H&K when I get them in on tuesday. I'd just have to hook up those piggy back cables to a 3.5mm to RCA cable and attach a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter to it and plug it into the headphone jack. I'm anticipating hiss though.




Thanks! LMK. If I had realized they had come with a mixer like that, I probably would have picked one up during the half off sale just for the mixer.

-Erik


----------



## I95North

Anyone have any issues with the new mixamp's volume  cutting out  while gaming??


----------



## wilflare

wondering if I should get the M50 now under $100 at Amazon


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Do you have a DAC at all wilfare?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Just grabbed a xonar hdav1.3 card off of ebay and I'm going to build a little computer to try myears with it. I'll report back in the coming weeks how it compares to dolby headphone. Good news, if I don't like myears, the sound card supports dolby headphone out of the box.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I just got back home, but that's exactly what I planned on doing. Sounds great


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> "Ok. No. Yes. Well I disagree. You have a point there..."
> No offense SoAmusing777, and I do understand the points both of you two are making in this exchange (Seeking fidelity vs diminishing returns, the standard YMMV scenario), but sometimes I have to reread your replies a few times to get where you're responding to what, and in this particular post I'm not even sure exactly where each response matches up with the original post. For clarity, I usually put related ideas together and write a more general reply, with a paragraph per idea, instead of a bunch of point-by-point responses in line. If you could at least insert bolded responses into text you are replying to, it could help others (or at least me) follow along better. I'm not saying anything about you or the topic of the quoted text, I'm just saying help a guy with short attention-spans (me) out
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Point taken.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I have a vintage onkyo tx-sv70Pro Receiver, Does anyone know if I'll be able to squeeze some juice out of it (paired with the Mixamp) or should I just send it to the junkyard?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

ALMOST ordered some q701's today but just couldn't bring myself to do it.  I don't play call of duty anymore just Gotham City Impostors and Halo 4.  Not worried about the extreme detail whoring anymore.  Also i am REALLY wanting to get some speakers as i haven't had a pair in a while and i'm really excited about getting some but if i were to get another pair of headphones instead they would need to be very engaging musically more than anything.  thinking the 400. Anyone here compared the 400 with the asgard and any other amps?  Impressions.  
  BTW i know this is a gaming forum.  I plan on using them with the mixamp too


----------



## wilflare

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Do you have a DAC at all wilfare?


 
   
  hmm the only one I have is the Audinst MX-1. not sure if that suffices for gaming.
  do have other headphones though.. like the Monoprice 8320 and Sony PULSE


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I have a vintage Onkyo tx-sv70Pro Receiver, Does anyone know if I'll be able to squeeze some juice out of it (paired with the Mixamp) or should I just send it to the junkyard?


 
  Run a 3.5mm to RCA audio analog cable from the Mix-amp's headphone output connection to the RCA inputs on the Onkyo
  and then plug your headphones into the Onkyo's headphone jack, i guessing the Onkyo's headphone jack puts out more power then the Mix-amp.
  Might work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I realize that because I have 4 pairs of fullsized headphones at the house at the moment, im having trouble focusing on each of their individual sounds for review. I keep stressing not to compare headphones, yet im doing that very thing. The sake of my reviews are to mention the strengths and weaknesses of each headphone based on its own merits, and not when compared to another.

That means taking price, sound, comfort, versatility, etc.

So thats what I'm gonna do with the headsets Skullcandy sent me. I'm gonna be focusing on each, individually. I do have a preference, but I need to focus on one at a time. So far, the Slyr at its price is great. The A40 bundle is a legit and simple solution, and sounds very good. The A50s, im not happy with.

Thats the gist of it. Each have their strengths, and weaknesses. If someone already owns something like the Mixamp and desires and true headset, the Slyr is worth checking out. If youre on the fence and just want a buy once and forget headset, the A40 bundle is pretty hard to pass up. Im quite pleased with it.

If you desire wireless... well, I personally don't recommend the A50. Functionality and versatility is there, but sound quality just isn't quite there with a fully wireless solution (except the 360 controller cable).

It's a shame the Mixamp 5.8 is no longer made, as the A40+Mixamp 5.8 definitely walk all over the A50s. I think they should have literally used the A40 and Mixamp 5.8 tech in a one headset. The 5.8 literally sounds like a wired mixamp, just a hair brighter. The A50s don't, though I'm not sure if its the drivers or the wireless tech that isnt up to par.


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The problem I have with the DT770s is that it seals a bit too well, and gives me that cabin pressure like feel when on an airplane. This is one major reason why I don't personally care for closed headphones, especially ones that seal well.
> The SLYR and A50s are both closed, but they don't have the best isolation, so I never get that head pressure like I did with the 770s.
> The Pro 900s are a solid alternative to the 770s if you need a closed headphone that seals well and has plenty of fun. I just didn't care for it's treble.
> I'm really not experienced with closed headphones/headsets in general as I tend to stay away from them almost as much as pleather padded headphones. The Pro 900 is probably my fave of the bunch though. Not counting the D7000 which IS my absolute fave, but rare now, and uber expensive.
> ...


 
   
  Hey Mad,
   
  had any game time with the Shure 1440s ?  ...   thks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unfortunately, no. Would love to try both the 1440 and 1840.


----------



## chicolom

HRT's new HDMI Streamer, which grabs digital audio from HDMI then passes it through.  Of course, you can get that from optical too, but I think HDMI has more bandwith and isn't limited to 5.1 channels like optical is.  Could be more useful with the next gen of consoles. 
   
  I'm not sure what the next-gen plans are for handling surround.  I assume DD 5.1 is so standardized that it will continue, but they will possibly add more DTS support. 
   
  Of course, ideally consoles would have middleware that did the headphone surround more directly, instead of having to virtualize a a 5.1 system.  I don't expect them to get on that though.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  In the meantime, I think someone _-*cough* FiiO - _ should make a more "audiophile" mixamp.  Something with more inputs (Optical, HDMI, possibly USB for use with a computer), a high quality DAC with a toggle switch to bake in Dolby Headphone in the D-to-A stage, and a direct line out to send to external amps.  Or just stick an E9 amp in the same box.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, I see. I have a feeling thats the way of the future for gaming. Hdmi streamer with DH enabling.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Long time lurker first time poster.
   
  Great thread and guide by the way. At the moment I am using the PC360s with a mixamp, but am looking to pick up a pair audiotechnica AD900s to use with the mixamp.
   
  My questions are, are these $£100 better than the AD700s? and do they go well with the mixamp?
   
   
  Thanks in advance for any replies


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





brown intruder said:


> Long time lurker first time poster.
> 
> Great thread and guide by the way. At the moment I am using the PC360s with a mixamp, but am looking to pick up a pair audiotechnica AD900s to use with the mixamp.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  AD900s are sort of a sidegrade from the PC360s.  AD900s have a bigger soundstage, but less bass and a thinner sound than the PC360s.
   
  Also, they're not $100 better than the AD700.  They have slightly better bass, and less sibilant treble.  The mids sound a little more congested on the AD900 and make the soundstage sound slightly less clear than the AD700s.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Thanks for the quick reply.
   
  I have been looking for weeks and weeks at forums and web-sites.. And its hard to nail down a good combo.
   
  another quick question. What would you consider an upgrade in terms of everything over the PC360s? and would I need to add an amp (say  a E09 for example) into the mix to drive them correctly?
   
  Because frankly, if there is one major problem with the mixamp, it is the fact that turning up chat just kills the volume! 
   
  Sorry for the same questions that you guys probably get sick of answering everyday


----------



## calpis

I was looking at some videos of the PLYR2 and thought to myself that you could totally hook up something like a DSS to it and make a makeshift DH wireless headset. The only fail of the PLYR2 that I can see is that it has 3 preset EQ's and I'm not entirely sure if any of those are flat.
   
  Also, noticed that skullcandy's lifetime warranty doesn't include the gaming stuff, those only get 1 year :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Brown Intruder, look into the Q701. That is the next step over the AD700s, IMHO. And yes, definitely get an amp if you plan on using a mic.

Cal, I'm still not sold on wireless headsets, even the Plyr2. The A50s left me kind of disheartened.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





brown intruder said:


> Thanks for the quick reply.
> 
> I have been looking for weeks and weeks at forums and web-sites.. And its hard to nail down a good combo.
> 
> ...


 
   
_Argh!  MLE beat me to it..._
   
  Probably the Q701. Both PC360 and Q701 are pretty well balanced, but the Q701 is a tier up and has warmer punchier sound.  It's a funner more immersive sounding headphone.  The PC360 sounds flat and boring in comparison.  Both have a very good soundstage, although different.
   
  If your close to losing volume with the PC360, Q701 will most likely push you over the edge and you'll need ampage.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Thanks guys
   
  I nearly pulled the trigger on ad900s friday evening as well. 
   
  I take it that extra amplification does not destroy the dolby headset put out by the mixamp?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Brown Intruder* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I take it that extra amplification does not destroy the dolby headset put out by the mixamp?


 
   
   
  No.  It just...amplifies it.


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Unfortunately, no. Would love to try both the 1440 and 1840.


 
   
  yeah same ..
   
  and wouldnt mind trying the HE-400s, and the Beyer T90 either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I could choose:

Philips Fidelio X1
K702 65th Anniversary
Beyer T90
HD800
T1
Stax anything
SRH1840
SRH1440
Grado SR80i
Alessandro MS-1
HE500
Yuin G1A and G2A
LCD2 with vegan pads
LCD3 with vegan pads
HE-6
HE-300

That's mainly all I wanna try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, so I'm trying the Slyr's mixer, Mixamp pro 2013, and 5.8 off the Slyr all on stereo mode at their most balanced preset. Looks like the 5.8 is brighter than neutral for sure. The Mixamp 2013 is fuller sounding, and more dimensional. The Slyr's Mixer sounds closer to the Mixamp than to the 5.8.

Odd. I'll have to do more testing to be sure, but it definitely seems to be the case. I'm so used to the 5.8's signature, that the others seem warmer than neutral, but in actuality, they may be the neutral ones.

I did get the Mixer to work. I'm an idiot. I didn't realize you can just press in thecenter button and it mutes the mic. The mic definitely works off the Mixer and PS3.

I was playing Castlevania HD which is a stereo game, so I could test out the sound quality of the Mixer. Seems fine. Less harsh than the 5.8 in stereo mode.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Mad, how does the mic sound on the Slyr


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds fine to me. Zero complaints.


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, so I'm trying the Slyr's mixer, Mixamp pro 2013, and 5.8 off the Slyr all on stereo mode at their most balanced preset. Looks like the 5.8 is brighter than neutral for sure. The Mixamp 2013 is fuller sounding, and more dimensional. The Slyr's Mixer sounds closer to the Mixamp than to the 5.8.
> Odd. I'll have to do more testing to be sure, but it definitely seems to be the case. I'm so used to the 5.8's signature, that the others seem warmer than neutral, but in actuality, they may be the neutral ones.
> I did get the Mixer to work. I'm an idiot. I didn't realize you can just press in thecenter button and it mutes the mic. The mic definitely works off the Mixer and PS3.
> I was playing Castlevania HD which is a stereo game, so I could test out the sound quality of the Mixer. Seems fine. Less harsh than the 5.8 in stereo mode.




No hiss on the SLYR mixer?

-Erik


----------



## tmaxx123

since I have been loving my mmx-300's so much lately, I stumbled upon some dt990's for about 170 new. Are the dt990's the best headphone beyer makes before the t90? Would it even be worth the jump from the mmx's to those?
   
  would have to get the modmic if i do though


----------



## DoctaCosmos

http://youtu.be/fU-CaWlp1iQ
  Tell me what you guys think about this


----------



## Stn.

Question - are there any alternatives to the Mixamp for connecting headphones to an Xbox 360? 
Question 2 - do you guys know of anywhere to buy a Mixamp in Canada? Looking for a sub-$100 model preferably... listed at $129.99 on their site for the 2013 edition.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





stn. said:


> Question - are there any alternatives to the Mixamp for connecting headphones to an Xbox 360?


 
   
  Read the first Post.  Ctrl + F search for "*Virtual Surround Devices"*


----------



## calpis

I think I'm going to see if I can score an AVR-254 in a couple weeks. It'd be a nice upgrade and I won't have to use an HDMI switcher anymore. Oh and also lossless audio


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I think I'm going to see if I can score an AVR-254 in a couple weeks. It'd be a nice upgrade and I won't have to use an HDMI switcher anymore. Oh and also lossless audio


 
   
  I would suggest looking into Marantz receivers instead. I've seen a LOT of posts on AV forums about the HK models with DH having problems with their HDMI. I just grabbed a Marantz SR5002 and it sounds SWEET, but I ordered one of the Asus sound cards with DH and I'm not going to use it now most likely.
   
  -Erik


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





stn. said:


> Question - are there any alternatives to the Mixamp for connecting headphones to an Xbox 360?
> Question 2 - do you guys know of anywhere to buy a Mixamp in Canada? Looking for a sub-$100 model preferably... listed at $129.99 on their site for the 2013 edition.


 
  Personally, I like the idea of using a used A/V receiver (preferably a Yamaha) and run an HDMI cable from the xBox to the receiver, plug headphones into receiver.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I would suggest looking into Marantz receivers instead. I've seen a LOT of posts on AV forums about the HK models with DH having problems with their HDMI. I just grabbed a Marantz SR5002 and it sounds SWEET, but I ordered one of the Asus sound cards with DH and I'm not going to use it now most likely.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  How tall is it including the feet? I kinda have limited space since it'll be under my desk sitting on top of an end table.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





calpis said:


> How tall is it including the feet? I kinda have limited space since it'll be under my desk sitting on top of an end table.


 
   
  All receivers are basically the same measurements (minus the cheaper slim ones). So if the HK would fit, I assume the Marantz would as well...
   
  -Erik


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If I could choose:
> Philips Fidelio X1
> K702 65th Anniversary
> Beyer T90
> ...


 
   
   
  didnt like the 702s for gaming... dry, uninspiring, and certainly not enough bass for me ..  actually i didnt like them for music either.. and that was thru some pretty good components.
   
  the MS-1s, zero soundstage, or very little .... not good for gaming, for me anyway  ... YMMV
   
  LCD2/LCD3 ... havent heard, but im guessing they would be pretty darn good gamingwise, likewise the HD800/and T1.


----------



## catspaw

Ive been using this weekend the HE-400 for gaming and its good enought right of my Fiio E17 to have a 360 Degree awareness.
   
  Its not perfect but i can pinpoint a shooting enemy in Tribes Ascend with enought accuracy to Be able to turn in about 10 degree error margin from the actual enemy location.
   
  They sound "too good" at some points (every minimal distortion is noticiable since the sound it so clear).
  I tested the HE-400 with Just cause 2, Summoner 1, Starcraft 2, watching some streams and diablo 2 soundtrack (cd).
  Just cause and Diablo 2 sountrack were clearly better than the rest, so the headphones are not the limiting factor here. Also i had the chance to play dragon age origins with it, and the feeling of inmersion and atmoshere was great. Finally i tried F.E.A.R Persus Mandate. I Had to turn it off cus was more scary than i remembered it (must try Amnesia the dark descent with it!).
  Ill see if by christmas i can test Mass effect 2.
   
  Overall, I really like the headphones and i belive they were worth the money.


----------



## wmf

yes im going to definately try the HE-400s.
   
  on the subject of gaming audio, the best audio ive come across recently has been ..
   
  BF3, Fear 3, Crysis 2, and Counter Strike:GO.
   
  Black ops, was crap0la.... havent played Black Ops2...     couldnt be any worse.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Really digging the A40s for music. Nice, balanced, spacious sound. Doesn't sound like headset, though not exactly audiophile level. It does separate sounds quite a bit better than the SLYR.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Really digging the A40s for music. Nice, balanced, spacious sound. Doesn't sound like headset, though not exactly audiophile level. It does separate sounds quite a bit better than the SLYR.


 
   
  MLE, did you use the SLYR mixer for voice chat? No hiss?
   
  -Erik
   
  Edit: Just realized the 50% off sale is still going on. If they don't have any hiss, I might just grab a SLYR for the mixer alone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My bad, didnt have time to check again, but Im sure it was very silent.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Did anyone check out my video i put up a page or two ago?


----------



## lubczyk

How long is the cable on the Slyr? I need to know how long it can reach.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With the Mixer? Looks like a 10 footer. Without? Short, like 3 feet. Like I said before, if you want a long one without chat, just get a 3.5mm male/male from like Amazon or Monoprice.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Im back with another probably stupid question
   
  Probably the stupidest question of the day, how do you connect say a fiio e7 or e9 to mixamp or mixamp to amp?
   
  thanks in advance for your patience lol


----------



## DoctaCosmos

you would get a 3.5 male to 3.5 male and run one end into the mixamp where it says "headset" and the other end into the "auxiliary in" on the amplifier


----------



## lubczyk

I wonder how the wireless Skullcandy PLYR 2 sounds.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I'm regretting purchasing the mixamp already. To be honest I don't even know what compelled me to buy it. I think part of it is that I didn't know if that purchase would occur since it went over my billmelater credit line. That money would have been better spent on a new monitor for example. And a better solution would have been an AVR which I still intent to buy. The payment went through already though and I can't cancel the order. Maybe I can return it for a refund.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What's the problem? I can't live without a Mixamp.

SO worth it, IMHO.

It is absolutely the most important part of gaming for me. No, seriously. I would rather play with a cheap $20 headphone as long as I have the Mixamp than a $1000 headphone without one.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Does everyone here have me blocked?  I post that video thinking you guys would like to see something a little different and not one response!  Does everyone have me blocked or something or was the video that bad?


----------



## burritoboy9984

lubczyk said:


> I wonder how the wireless Skullcandy PLYR 2 sounds.




I'll be getting mine this week. I'm fairly new to the whole headphone scene, but I plan on hooking them up to my mixamp and gaming with them for a bit for sure.

-Erik


----------



## DoctaCosmos




----------



## Rebel975

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Does everyone here have me blocked?  I post that video thinking you guys would like to see something a little different and not one response!  Does everyone have me blocked or something or was the video that bad?


 
   
   
  I watched the video, but I didn't respond because I don't post that much. Sorry bro.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

It's cool, i just honestly thought maybe my posts weren't showing up or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didnt see it before. Very nice. Not sure I'd gut any of my headphones like that though, lol.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i originally modded the a30's because i let a friend borrow them and he broke them.  While fixing them i noticed there could be some improvements.  I figured i was going to buy a new pair of headphones and was considering getting the new a40's but figured i'd take a stab at making my old ones better sounding like i did the a30's so i didn't have to buy new ones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I just got a working CECHA PS3 today and have been messing around with it for a bit.
   
  One of the first things I noticed was that when I fired up Saints Row 2 (got it and some other games bundled with a parts PS3 I couldn't fix due to the seller's misdiagnosis), it was the DTS light that popped on my SU-DH1, not the Dolby Digital light.
   
  I guess those DTS logos weren't for show, and Sony's more lax in their surround format requirements than Microsoft (whom, if I'm not mistaken, demand Dolby Digital support specifically) if you set the PS3 to output DTS and other formats over S/PDIF.
   
  Oh, and MLE, check your PS3 for friend requests. You can probably help me wrap my head around this new-to-me console and its quirks; for starters, it's a good thing that I could borrow my brother's HDTV for a little while, as it's the only display in the entire house with an HDMI input. (Not even joking about that.) Had to go in and enable the AV-out port before scratching my head at a blank screen with the usual PS A/V cables, hoping this wasn't one of those "no video" consoles just short of YLoD. (And while composite looks terrible, especially by PS3 standards, I need to prepare it for use with component cables. HDMI has to wait 'til I can afford an HDfury4/3Dfury.)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Did anyone check out my video i put up a page or two ago?


 
   
  Yes, it looks like you did something similar to the "Kramer Mod."
   
  It looks like that's a pretty major mod and not something you can compare the before and after results.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

The thing is that I probably won't be able to use it with a Wii U (no optical output) which I intent to buy within the next year or so. I would like a universal solution (on dedicated gaming consoles) and a AVR would probably solve that issue.
   
  Although now that I think about it, I might be able to use the RCA cables and "piggyback" them onto the mixamp for audio since I have like three sets of those bad boys. (Both component and composite) Can anybody please tell me if I will achieve 5.1 sound or at least something similar to optical output using the RCA cables? 
   
   
   


doctacosmos said:


> Does everyone here have me blocked?  I post that video thinking you guys would like to see something a little different and not one response!  Does everyone have me blocked or something or was the video that bad?


 
  Yea, I'd respond but I'm new at this...


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Yes, the rca can produce a 3d imaging. Don't know if it takes the analog and converts it digital and back to analog but it does do it somehow. 
  Usually this is at a degrade of quality.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

What do you mean not something i can compare before and after results lol?


----------



## burritoboy9984

doctacosmos said:


> What do you mean not something i can compare before and after results lol?




What I believe he is saying is that it is almost impossible to A/B a mod like that.

-Erik


----------



## moos

[size=medium]Mad Lust Envy[/size] Did you by any chance test the Sennheiser HD 558 aswell? I've read that the 558 has a little stronger bass than 598, which why I'm being pulled more to 558, even tho the 598 look so much better overall.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> What I believe he is saying is that it is almost impossible to A/B a mod like that.
> -Erik


 
   
  Yes. 
   
  You can't compare the sound from before and after the mod back to back (without a second pair of A40s).


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





moos said:


> [size=medium]Mad Lust Envy[/size] Did you by any chance test the Sennheiser HD 558 as well? I've read that the 558 has a little stronger bass than 598, which why I'm being pulled more to 558, even tho the 598 look so much better overall.


 
  As a HD558 owner, I would guess (?) the black rubber tape that is inside the cups of the HD558 and covers about 1/3 of their grill, some how gives the HD558 more of a stronger bass sounding headphone.
  Personally, I removed the black rubber tape and have never thought to put them back in.


----------



## PanamaHat

This thread is really making me want to get the Beyer 990pro again. I had it once but the right driver blew out so I decided to return and see what else was out there, but nothing gave me the same excitement and comfort that those cans did


----------



## DoctaCosmos

lol, i've had a lot of headphones and can assure you i know the difference.  Also, i did get a chance to a/b because my friend brought his over to have me do the mod to his.  I got to ab them and so did he.  It only assured him more that he wanted it done to his.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

whether it be 1min from the time i heard one or an hour, i can tell you the differences.  Partly because i have done extensive listening and finding the strengths and weaknesses of my headphones.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> Yes, the *rca can produce a 3d imaging*. Don't know if it takes the analog and converts it digital and back to analog but it does do it somehow.
> *Usually this is at a degrade of quality*.


 
  Wait, is that a good or a bad thing? 
   
  And for the second question, a degrade in quality compared to what? Optical output. I was thinking of using an RCA  to Optical DAC but it seems most are made to work the other wat around.  
   
  So I would suppose it would go Wii U through RCA>DAC >Mixamp>another amp>headphone
   
  Would that be (significantly) worse than straight through optical out?


----------



## lubczyk

If the Earforce DSS is in any way similar to the Astro Mixamp in Dolby Headphone technology, then I must say that Dolby Headphone is worthless. The best directional headphones I've used in Black Ops 2, Max Payne 3, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3 and Modern Warfare 3 are the Samson SR850, and I could pick up audio and directionality cues just as well in Stereo as I could in Dolby Headphone. I have heard no improvement in Single-player or Mutliplayer using the Earforce DSS.
   
  Maybe it works for some people's ears better than others.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lubczyk said:


> If the Earforce DSS is in any way similar to the Astro Mixamp in Dolby Headphone technology, then I must say that Dolby Headphone is worthless. *The best directional headphones I've used in Black Ops 2, Max Payne 3, Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3 and Modern Warfare 3 *are the Samson SR850, and I could pick up audio and directionality cues just as well in Stereo as I could in Dolby Headphone. I have heard no improvement in Single-player or Mutliplayer using the Earforce DSS.
> 
> Maybe it works for some people's ears better than others.




That's your problem right there. Those games have TERRIBLE positional cues. Believe it or not, half the time, it's lazy devs not placing a lot of importance on positional cues. One example of GREAT audio, but bad positional cues is Battlefield 3. A damn shame.

Try harder...aka, get other games. Don't blame Dolby Headphone, blame those games for having 'worthless' surround cues.

One good example: Modern Warfare 2. That game's online multiplayer had amazing positional cues. The first MW as well, but not as good as MW2's.

Also, it'd help knowing what you're using. 360, PS3? Your settings are important.

Lol, stereo...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I just got a working CECHA PS3 today and have been messing around with it for a bit.
> 
> One of the first things I noticed was that when I fired up Saints Row 2 (got it and some other games bundled with a parts PS3 I couldn't fix due to the seller's misdiagnosis), it was the DTS light that popped on my SU-DH1, not the Dolby Digital light.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Nice! Was it the 60gb version? You might wanna send this off to PC doctor for the fan mod, cleanup, thermal paste, and what not. What's the significance of the DTS? Also, why do you need an HDfury?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Ah, anyone know of something that would be good for routinely cleaning off the hair from my Q701's?


----------



## AxelCloris

soamusing777 said:


> Ah, anyone know of something that would be good for routinely cleaning off the hair from my Q701's?




I have hair that's not too long, I just pick out my strands that get caught on them. Don't know of anything specific to do that.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's your problem right there. Those games have TERRIBLE positional cues. Believe it or not, half the time, it's lazy devs not placing a lot of importance on positional cues. One example of GREAT audio, but bad positional cues is Battlefield 3. A damn shame.
> Try harder...aka, get other games. Don't blame Dolby Headphone, blame those games for having 'worthless' surround cues.
> One good example: Modern Warfare 2. That game's online multiplayer had amazing positional cues. The first MW as well, but not as good as MW2's.
> Also, it'd help knowing what you're using. 360, PS3? Your settings are important.
> Lol, stereo...


 
  I'm using the PS3. Amazon optical cable. Only Dolby Digital 5.1 selected in Audio Settings. For Battlefield 3 I had Enhanced Stereo off and the sound profile set to Home Theatre. Still not impressed with Dolby Headphone. Thinking of choosing between the Q701, MA900 or HE-400 for future use. Maybe the Samson SR850 are just bad?
   
  I thought Uncharted 2 and 3 had amazing sound and positional cues. I could my opponents and where they were coming from whether in Stereo or Dolby Headphone. The best showcases of why I should invest in a home theatre system sownwhere down the line.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I have hair that's not too long, I just pick out my strands that get caught on them. Don't know of anything specific to do that.


 
   
  All right then.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Anybody know how I can get some good sound out of this Yamaha receiver? Right now I'm using the straight enhancer with Pandora's 44khz MP3. I don't think it's doing the Q701's justice.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Nice! Was it the 60gb version? You might wanna send this off to PC doctor for the fan mod, cleanup, thermal paste, and what not. What's the significance of the DTS? Also, why do you need an HDfury?


 
   
  CECHA = original 60 GB revision with full PS2 hardware support. Now I can play all those PS2 games I missed out on the first time around.
   
  I can install fan mods and change thermal paste myself. At least I don't need to change the PSU and fan in this one; came with an APS-226 and a 19-blade fan.
   
  The significance of the DTS discovery is that I wonder how people with other surround processors that lack DTS support get audio in those games on a PS3. Maybe the PS3 itself can transcode DTS to Dolby Digital, going by MLE's statements on getting Blu-ray movies to output Dolby Digital that only have DTS tracks. I'll test it myself with the Recon3D USB, which only supports Dolby Digital.
   
  EDIT: Turns out that disabling DTS support in the optical output options and setting "Bitstream (Mix)" has the PS3 re-encode it to Dolby Digital.
   
  The HDfury is needed because there's only one display in this entire house that even has an HDMI port, and that one's not mine. (Believe it or not, our primary living room HDTV is a rear-projection CRT set from 2002 or 2003 that only has component inputs.) In particular, I'd prefer to use my prized Sony GDM-FW900 monitor with my PS3. I could just run component output to a PC capture card and display it that way, I suppose...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Ah, anyone know of something that would be good for routinely cleaning off the hair from my Q701's?


 
   
  You can take a strip of sticky tape and push it around the headphone/pads and it will pick off debris, similar to a lint roller.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Have anyone tried out sennheisers 333d or any of it's counterparts? They mildly interest me and I been wondering how they differ from the pc 350 and 360's in sound.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> CECHA = original 60 GB revision with full PS2 hardware support. Now I can play all those PS2 games I missed out on the first time around.
> 
> I can install fan mods and change thermal paste myself. At least I don't need to change the PSU and fan in this one; came with an APS-226 and a 19-blade fan.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I thought there were different numbers to go with the CECHA. I see. It's been awhile since I've read. Yeah, I have that one too  It's boss. Well, I'm happy to hear that, about the PS2. Oh, yes, Mr.PC man. Nice! I guess they get them through DD? Maybe so. I guess you could. I thought the HD fury was a HDCP stripper?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You can take a strip of sticky tape and push it around the headphone/pads and it will pick off debris, similar to a lint roller.


 

 Got it! I have a lint roller I think.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Got it! I have a lint roller I think.


 
   
  I just use strips of tape and dab/pat them around the pads.
   
  Whenever I sell headphones I do this with real sticky tape like duct tape and it makes the pads look like new. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  FYI, don't do this on Beyer pads as it seems to pull out strands of whatever soft fluffy velour type they use.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I just use strips of tape and dab/pat them around the pads.
> 
> Whenever I sell headphones I do this with real sticky tape like duct tape and it makes the pads look like new.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Got it! Nice! Oh my, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I thought there were different numbers to go with the CECHA. I see. It's been awhile since I've read. Yeah, I have that one too  It's boss. Well, I'm happy to hear that, about the PS2. Oh, yes, Mr.PC man. Nice! I guess they get them through DD? Maybe so. I guess you could. I thought the HD fury was a HDCP stripper?


 
   
  The two digits after the CECH* part just indicate the region the console was sold and set for.
   
  The HDFury was originally a DVI-HDCP/HDMI video DAC, but it looks like later models added a digital passthrough stripped of HDCP. They've grown into very versatile devices...and very expensive ones, at that. (The latest models would easily cost me more than the FW900 did.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I'm watching the new Total Recall Blu-Ray on my PS3 with the A40s + Mixamp 2013. These are GREAT for movies. They're definitely better than the SLYR, as they should be considering the difference in price.

However, I'm not sure if it's the new Mixamp or the A40s themselves, but these put out some pretty awesome sounding bass while watching movies.

The new Mixamp is definitely a bit more bottom heavy than the 5.8. I dunno which is the more neutral one in this case, though being accustomed to the 5.8 for so long, I feel the new Mixamp is definitely on the warmer side of neutral, even in the flat preset.

I'm gonna have to ask SC/Astro what exact frequencies get bumped in each preset. So far, the flat preset is good, as well as the bottom right one, which seems to bump up the mids so vocals are clearer without changing the tonal balance too much. Not sure about the bottom left one. The top left one basically removes all the bass, and focus purely on mid and treble detail. This may be a good preset for muddy, boomy headphones.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The top left one basically removes all the bass, and focus purely on mid and treble detail.


 
   
  That preset is called the "AD700 simulator."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously, that's how I hear it. Actually, with the A40s, it makes them sound like first gen A40s... but still, better. I registered at the Astro forum to ask what exactly the presets do to the frequencies. We'll see...

I completely forgot to update the Mixamp, so I just did that. Wonder what it does.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

honestly the new mixamp brought my old a40's to life.  I think there might be a better dac but having heard the difference with amplifiers, i honestly think they made the new mixamp have an amp that could control the headphones a lot better.
  Also, to the poster that bought a mixamp and are now regretting it, why did you bother buying one in the first place?  Not being negative just curious.
  Maybe MLE should put in the description what dolby headphone and who its for and how it's not complicated to set up and use lol


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I want to buy a Wii U within the next year or so and would like to have a solution for 5.1 and/or 7.1 dolby (or comparable) for it. The thing is that Wii U lacks optical output.
   
  Like I posted above I think I might be able to hook the Wii U up to the Mixamp using one of the extra Wii component/composite rca cables I have laying around (I think they still work on the Wii U) with the help of some sort of converter. I would like to have a good enough connection without (much) degradation vis a vis optical cables.
   
  If I can't do that, the best option would have been using a receiver to decode LCPM through HDMI, preferably Yamaha for silent cinema (an alternative to dolby headphone).
   
   
   
  And frankly I don't know why I bought it. It was sort of an impulse buy. And like I said before I didn't even think the order was going to work because I used credit, I was already over my credit line but the payment still went through. It was an expensive, stupid experiment.
   
  But idk, I might keep it still.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I want to buy a Wii U within the next year or so and would like to have a solution for 5.1 and/or 7.1 dolby (or comparable) for it. The thing is that Wii U lacks optical output.
> 
> Like I posted above I think I might be able to hook the Wii U up to the Mixamp using one of the extra Wii component/composite rca cables I have laying around (I think they still work on the Wii U) with the help of some sort of converter. I would like to have a good enough connection without (much) degradation vis a vis optical cables.
> 
> If I can't do that, the best option would have been using a receiver to decode LCPM through HDMI, preferably Yamaha for silent cinema (an alternative to dolby headphone).


 
   
  Why not a receiver that actually has Dolby Headphone? It's mostly older Harmon Kardon models that are known for having it, but there may be others that we don't know about yet.
   
  Or maybe you've actually tried Silent Cinema and prefer it to Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I haven't really tried silent cinema. I think my laptop has dolby advance audio and it sounds well enough even on my cheap in-ear headphones.
   
  And I'm pretty much open to suggestions. I've heard people saying one is better for gaming  than the other (of course ear/head shape and preference plays a part) but the point is that a receiver might have been a better choice over mixamp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I haven't really tried silent cinema. I think my laptop has dolby advance audio and it sounds well enough even on my cheap in-ear headphones.
> 
> And I'm pretty much open to suggestions. I've heard people saying one is better for gaming  than the other (of course ear/head shape and preference plays a part) but the point is that a receiver might have been a better choice over mixamp.


 
  I went with a Yamaha receiver not because I thought Silent Cinema was better then Dolby Headphone, I went with Yamaha because I knew I was getting some sort of headphone surround sound, sourced from 6 to 8 channels.
   
  I do not really trust most  A/V receiver makers as they seem to lack really good details about the headphone features in their receivers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find myself constantly using my clip-ons for comfort at home...

I think I honestly should get the Yuin G1A for home use, whenever I'm not using my HE-400 (which happens a lot).

AAAAAAAAND, they're mine. 



150ohms... like a refined KSC75. I'm ready for this.

I wish there was a bigger selection of high end clip-ons.

Considering the Yuin G1A isn't known for heavy bass, this will be what I mainly use for my anime and TV shows, where I place a lot more importance in the mids and clarity.

Hmm, from the clip-on comparison, the main thing I saw was that the Yuin G1A sounds a lot like a small HD650. That is a DEFINITE WANT.


*In other news:

I believe I'll start writing the review of the Skullcandy SLYR tomorrow. Won't promise it be done, but it's going to start.

Also, I'm gonna be adding spoiler tags for all the reviews to lessen the wall of text clutter I have on the first post. It should be easier to sift through, and you can just click on the tags to open the review quickly of whatever it is you wanna read. I'll also be adding "Worthless/Bad/Okay/Decent/Good/Great/Amazing" to the numerical scores of the reviews, so people understand that a 6 is decent, so as not to write off anything that has a less then a 7 in specific areas.*


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I went with a Yamaha receiver not because I thought Silent Cinema was better then Dolby Headphone, I went with Yamaha because I knew I was getting some sort of headphone surround sound, sourced from 6 to 8 channels.
> 
> I do not really trust most  A/V receiver makers as they seem to lack really good details about the headphone features in their receivers.


 
   


 That's true. I was sifting through some receivers with dolby sound and I didn't see anything in regards to headphone sound.


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I want to buy a Wii U within the next year or so and would like to have a solution for 5.1 and/or 7.1 dolby (or comparable) for it. The thing is that Wii U lacks optical output.
> 
> *Like I posted above I think I might be able to hook the Wii U up to the Mixamp using one of the extra Wii component/composite rca cables I have laying around (I think they still work on the Wii U) with the help of some sort of converter.* I would like to have a good enough connection without (much) degradation vis a vis optical cables.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Unless I'm missing something, you're not going to get true 5.1 sound through stereo rca cables.  It'll just be upmixed to Dolby ProLogic.


----------



## moos

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> As a HD558 owner, I would guess (?) the black rubber tape that is inside the cups of the HD558 and covers about 1/3 of their grill, some how gives the HD558 more of a stronger bass sounding headphone.
> Personally, I removed the black rubber tape and have never thought to put them back in.


 
   
  Has the bass lowered once you removed the black rubber tape from 558?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yes, someone asked about the 558.

I briefly auditioned them and I really liked them. Not enough to own them, but I did feel tbeyd be as good as the 598 in terms of positional cues, more fun, and less analytical. I like the 558 more than the 598. I did feel they were a lot like the PC360, if maybe a bit more musical.

My other brief auditions were the A900X and K550. NEITHER were to my taste and sounded boring and lifeless to me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





moos said:


> Has the bass lowered once you removed the black rubber tape from 558?


 
  Difficult to answer, I removed the black rubber tape just a few days after getting the HD558 and I do not think the HD558s had broken in yet.
  Currently my well broken in HD558 have what I would call very decent bass (not heavy bass), the bass, mid range and treble seem very balanced.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I only know of one way. Get a ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe. Setup MyEars using that card on your computer. Run the PS3 to the Deluxe's input, then out to your receiver or TV. If TV, plug headphones into Deluxe. If Receiver, you can do either. Props to you if you do


 
   
  <rant>
   
  Ok, after ~4 hours of messing with all sorts of stuff and searching around, I'm 99% sure this DOES NOT work. The sound card is meant to mix audio from a PC and the hdmi video input. I'm not blaming you, as it was my responsibility to do research on something before I purchased it (thought you knew what you were talking about and the auction was ending), but PLEASE for future reference, know and have experience before you post something. People come to these forums looking for solutions to problems. I'm now stuck with a sound card I have no use for and wasted ~4 hours of my life, lol.
   
  -Erik
   
  </rant>


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I find myself constantly using my clip-ons for comfort at home...
> I think I honestly should get the Yuin G1A for home use, whenever I'm not using my HE-400 (which happens a lot).
> AAAAAAAAND, they're mine.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Me too. 
   
  I use clip-ons more than any other headphone.  I will even use them just for a minute and then go on to something else, I won't realize they're still on my ears until 45 minutes later.  There is something amazing about using headphones that barely touch your head at all and are almost unnoticeable comfort-wise, but still sound good.  It's unfair to all the people who strap on LCD-2s and big hot pleathery closed cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I almost bought the $50 Yuins at one point.
   
  I think people see clip-ons as gimmicky, so they don't make that many.
  I'm definitely willing to pay more than $15-35 for some more audiophile clip-ons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I will definitely let you know if its worth the $150. XD

Maaaaan, someone posted a screencap of the K702/65 for $350 on Amazon earlier. Of course, I check and its back up to almost $500. DAMN IT. I would have been all over that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I will definitely let you know if its worth the $150. XD
> Maaaaan, someone posted a screencap of the K702/65 for $350 on Amazon earlier. Of course, I check and its back up to almost $500. DAMN IT. I would have been all over that.


 
   
  Ya, I saw that.  I bet it will drop down again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have been checking daily....seriously. Amazon and their gawdang price fluctuations. I have never seen it dip below for 479.

I'm at that point in my life where I may sell off the HE400s again, and keep the K702 as the only full size.

If I do get it, im gonna send them to you so you can compare.

Before anyone asks why I would give up the HE400 again, its because I do not listen to music that much at home, and spend the vast majority of my headphone time when playing games. I would prefer a lighter headphone with a bigger soundstage for such use.

I'm seriously considering ridding myself of the huge setup (SA-31) and settling for less. Growing out of this. Something like the K702/X1 is what I need as a mostly gaming can, and the G1A for other use. My music time is mostly at work on the go anyways.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> <rant>
> 
> Ok, after ~4 hours of messing with all sorts of stuff and searching around, I'm 99% sure this DOES NOT work. The sound card is meant to mix audio from a PC and the hdmi video input. I'm not blaming you, as it was my responsibility to do research on something before I purchased it (thought you knew what you were talking about and the auction was ending), but PLEASE for future reference, know and have experience before you post something. People come to these forums looking for solutions to problems. I'm now stuck with a sound card I have no use for and wasted ~4 hours of my life, lol.
> 
> ...


 
   
  lol jeez soamusing777 is making quite a name for himself on these forums....
   
  im sure he meant well though, probably just wasnt sure?


----------



## Impulse

To be fair, i don't think he ever actually said he tried that setup himself... Just went on and on about it in that rambling fashion of his which makes his replies unintelligible. You frequent boards like this enough and you learn to take everything with a grain of salt, or at least to verify stuff and figure out who's opinions are in tune with your own.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Omg, I tried that MyEars awhile back. I thought it was garbage. It was the worst virtual surround I heard.


----------



## calpis

Got my SLYRs this afternoon and have been playing around with it for a while now and I've come to a few conclusions
  - They just BARELY fit my head. I would be happy if they had at least one extra notch on each arm.
  - Soundwise, they're pretty musical. Just read MLE's impressions on them.
  - The finish on the SLYRs headband is a textured matte plastic. Seems pretty durable. The plastic on the earcups kinda feels cheap.
  - The SLYR mixer works as a generic pc sound card if you plug it into your pc.
  - The headphone cable is 5ft, I personally like the length.
  - The mixer cable if really effing long.
  - I like the design of the strain relief but it also makes it hard to grip the cable when you want to pull it out.
  - I wish the earpads were slightly bigger.
  - The mixer will not work if plugged into a usb wall adapter. I tried a 500ma and a 2a and neither worked. It must be plugged in a pc, ps3, or xbox.
  - Hooked up the mixer to my receiver's headphone port and played fine with it being fed DH.
  - The mixer has 3 EQ settings and you must use 1 at all times,"Bass Mode", "Supreme Mode", and "Precision Mode". I find that the bass mode and precision mode is overly aggressive with the bass boost and treble boost. "Supreme Mode" seems to be the flat EQ.
  - The mixer hooked up to my receiver, bass mode introduces a slight hum and precision mode brings in some hiss. Played it supreme mode (middle EQ) and it didn't mess with the DH but there is very slight hiss still but it's a non factor.
  - Mixer hooked to my receiver and xbox controller and chat worked fine.
  - If you want to use the SLYR with a mixamp and amp combo you're going to need a TRRS splitter so you can have a separate jack for your mic and headphone. You'll also need the headset splitter.
  - I have to have the headband sit slightly more forward than usual to get a comfortable fit.
  - Totally worth $40 
   
  Edit: for the mixer, you can also play your mp3s on your computer while it's being fed game audio. You can adjust the balance of the 2 sources with the thumb stick on the mixer. Haven't tried this with it also being fed a chat channel yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to see someone else praising the Slyr. Its a good headset even at 80 dollars. For $40, its a no brainer.

Glad you were able to use it in more ways than I could.

Yeah, my main complaint is the small openings for the ears. They are circumaural, but just barely. They are deeper than the CAL though. I find them pretty comfy, small cups aside.

The plastic isn't amazing or anything, but I feel these can thrown around with more abandon than the CAL.


----------



## calpis

I have a big head and above average sized ears, there's no way in hell I'm going to be able to fit my ears inside. So they're permanently supra aural to me. I can't even get my lower lobes to fit inside my 2900 unless I wear them really low.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yikes. Lol. I guess they are gonna be supraaural for some, then. XD.

Really the only thing that bothers me with the sound is their soundstage. It just isnt great in that aspect. Im used to having a bigger sense of space to allow positional cues more freedom. Still, its not a big issue, as they still sound great, and I can game competitively with them.

Im quite impressed with the A40s too. Much better than the originals, IMHO.


----------



## calpis

I was playing with slyrs and my ultrasone hs15 today with blops 2. The soundstage in the the hs15 trumps the slyrs but I still played fine with either headset. It's a good feeling when you can sneak around and mass 1 shot kill with the semi auto shotguns. Had no problems locating silenced guns.


----------



## tmaxx123

I was so tempted to pick up the slyr headset, but with the new a40's and mmx300 laying around, I just couldn't justify the purchase. Lol

But I went back to playing with the a40's, and realized that I like the Beyerdynamic sound better. The a40's aren't bad by any means, but they aren't as fun, or precise. They almost seem too open, as if they lose some edge because of their design. I know open headsets are supposed to be better for gaming , but when I randomly tried to cover the "ports" on the back side of the Astro's, I got a better sound. They had a more rich and warm sound to them. I would need to find a permanent way to cover ports, so I can test further. 

This is making my decision between the Beyerdynamic and 2013 a40 much more difficult.


----------



## seb UK

Do you guys know why soundstage differs from headphone to headphone? Is it a matter of the driver design, or literally a function of how far the driver is away from your ears?

 Curious...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Drivers, housing, pads, amping, sound signature, all affect soundstage. 

One example: Warmer headphones tend to have a smaller soundstage than brighter headphones. 

Angled pads tend to have more soundstage than pads that are even all around.

Deep cups tend to have more soundstage than shallow cups...

So many reasons.


----------



## Gallade475

MLE, amping's effect on soundstage isn't some weird increase in soundstage, but its a decrease in crosstalk coming from the previous amplifier. That said, the NwAvGuy O2 is a very good amp for gaming, but, only true idiots would specialize amps for different audio applications.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't say amping = increased soundstage. I meant it does affect soundstage like all the things I mentioned.

And I dunno what you mean by true idiots using amps for specialized reasons. That's basically like headphones. People like to use devices to alter or offset specific proficiencies/deficiencies in the sound chain. Don't know what's idiotic about that. That's just a subjective approach to audio. We all have our preferences. Sure there is being objective, but that's just one way to enjoy audio.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Got my SLYRs this afternoon and have been playing around with it for a while now and I've come to a few conclusions
> - They just BARELY fit my head. I would be happy if they had at least one extra notch on each arm.
> - Soundwise, they're pretty musical. Just read MLE's impressions on them.
> - The finish on the SLYRs headband is a textured matte plastic. Seems pretty durable. The plastic on the earcups kinda feels cheap.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the comments, especially about the mixer. Strongly thinking of keeping the receiver I just snagged.
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The two digits after the CECH* part just indicate the region the console was sold and set for.
> 
> The HDFury was originally a DVI-HDCP/HDMI video DAC, but it looks like later models added a digital passthrough stripped of HDCP. They've grown into very versatile devices...and very expensive ones, at that. (The latest models would easily cost me more than the FW900 did.)


 
   
  Quite an informed person you are. That's interesting. Ah, that's pretty sweet. Actually, that's really useful if I ever wanted to record PS3 through HDMI. How expensive?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

http://www.nox-audio.com/Products/Specialist-1
  found these at biglots for $25.  I opened them up in the store and hooked my phone up to them and tried them out. They sound almost exactly like a smaller 2013 a40.  not kidding.  I was impressed and am going back tomorrow to buy the last three.
  They also had this that i'm not exactly sure what it does for $15
http://www.nox-audio.com/Products/Negotiator-12


----------



## DoctaCosmos

just found out they're a $200 headphone with dual drivers and they also having coming out some crazy ass looking 7.1 full wireless gaming headphones with touchscreens built into them for i don't know what.
  I


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> <rant>
> 
> Ok, after ~4 hours of messing with all sorts of stuff and searching around, I'm 99% sure this DOES NOT work. The sound card is meant to mix audio from a PC and the hdmi video input. I'm not blaming you, as it was my responsibility to do research on something before I purchased it (thought you knew what you were talking about and the auction was ending), but PLEASE for future reference, know and have experience before you post something. People come to these forums looking for solutions to problems. I'm now stuck with a sound card I have no use for and wasted ~4 hours of my life, lol.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I was never sure if it would work. That's the only way I knew of making it happen. That's the only way I knew to get MyEars on the PS3. I never said that I had this setup. I just posted something that I thought might work. Sorry I didn't add a disclaimer saying that it was a theory. I guess that means hooking up a PS3 to an Auzentech with CMSS-3D would produce the same results. Also, dunno if you knew or not, but I'm new here. Most people know I'm new. If you checked my profile you could see I'm new. I'm human. I'm going to make mistakes. As for my replies, yeah, I generally don't sum up the entire paragraph and reply to it as a whole. I do that time to time, but only when it means I'm not going to be missing out on any certain detail. I'm working on it all. At least I'm not that generic one word texter that replies to everything you say with "k", or some crap. I try to be thorough and take care with each and every reply I make. Anyway, so, it goes from the video card to the sound card? I'm not sure I follow. Yes, I always do my research. It was a work in progress for me. As soon as I got the money, I was going to try it. I thought I did too. I thought it would work. That's the only way I knew of getting it to work. I didn't say I've done this before, and it sounds amazing! Maybe you can still return the item? If the seller has no returns for the return policy, then idk, contact Paypal stating that something doesn't work (your setup). In any case, with something like this, you don't wanna buy something with a no return policy. It was a hasty, unsure, but promising, purchase. It's apparently something you really were interested in, went out on a limb and the limb broke. I can't mend the tree, but maybe I can mend your back. <3 LOL, seriously though, maybe you can work something out. I hate that I caused something like this for you, as it will probably come back at me, but oh well. At least you have a really nice sound card for your computer? It's really rare as well, having that HDMI in/out, so if you did sell it, it would probably have high resale value, maybe even more than what you paid for it, idk. It comes with Dolby HP too I believe. Duly noted, but as I tried to say, this was experimental. It was an idea. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason. If four hours and some money is all you wasted, then I'd say you could have much worse losses. I've made some purchases where I've pretty much wasted my money, but hey, it's replaceable. Time isn't replaceable though, but, we all learned something I guess.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Omg, I tried that MyEars awhile back. I thought it was garbage. It was the worst virtual surround I heard.


 
   
  A day late and a dollar short, but good to hear your input nonetheless.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> To be fair, i don't think he ever actually said he tried that setup himself... Just went on and on about it in that rambling fashion of his which makes his replies unintelligible. You frequent boards like this enough and you learn to take everything with a grain of salt, or at least to verify stuff and figure out who's opinions are in tune with your own.


 
   
  See above, but that's right, I did not. Did I? I went on and on about it? I ramble, as well as having my own way of rambling? Wow. I'm working on the replies. They're actually all pretty intelligible, but the way I reply, piece by piece, sometimes just doesn't come out right. That's right though.
  Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> lol jeez soamusing777 is making quite a name for himself on these forums....
> 
> im sure he meant well though, probably just wasnt sure?


 
   
  I guess I'm infamous, rather than what I'd like to be. Oh well, it's the internet. Everything will work itself out in time. Still doesn't help my rep since I plan on becoming the world's healthiest man one day, lol. I've actually pretty much only posted here, with a few replies in another thread. I did mean well and wasn't sure, see above.


----------



## lubczyk

Ok, just tried Modern Warfare 2 on PS3 with Earforce DSS and Samson SR850. I think Dolby Headphone is not for me. I just don't like the effect or results. Thank goodness that I held out and didn't go out and buy the Astro A40s. I would have been wasting my money. I just ordered the SLYR for $40 and will enjoy my stereo headset.
   
  On another note, I don't know what happened between Modern Warfare 2 and Modern Warfare 3, but Modern Warfare 2 has much better sound effects than Modern Warfare 3. It feels likey used toy gun sounds in Modern Warfare 3.
   
  Makes me really excited about Respawn's new game. I really enjoyed Modern Warfare 2's semi-open environments.
   
  Now just to save up some money for the Hifiman HE-400 and Phillips Fidelio X1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One headphone does DH not make.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Quite an informed person you are. That's interesting. Ah, that's pretty sweet. Actually, that's really useful if I ever wanted to record PS3 through HDMI. How expensive?


 
   
  It starts at around $130-140 for the earliest generations, up to $400 (!) for the latest HDfury4, or even $500 (!!!) for that same HDfury4 bundled with some extra devices.
   
  By comparison, the FW900 only cost me $250 on the local craigslist. (Pricing naturally varies on such a discontinued product, but some people will gladly pay $1,000+ for one in tip-top shape.)
   
  You could easily just buy a new display with HDMI input for as much as one of those HDfury devices, but if you're a CRT diehard who wants to keep using such prized displays, especially at gaming where they still excel above all else, or just strip the HDCP so you can use the HDMI input on a video capture device, then there aren't any alternatives I know of out there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno why people avoid the first video on the first post. Its basically wbat DH is. No need to buy to see if it works for you.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Well, I was never sure if it would work. That's the only way I knew of making it happen. That's the only way I knew to get MyEars on the PS3. I never said that I had this setup. I just posted something that I thought might work. Sorry I didn't add a disclaimer saying that it was a theory. I guess that means hooking up a PS3 to an Auzentech with CMSS-3D would produce the same results. Also, dunno if you knew or not, but I'm new here. Most people know I'm new. If you checked my profile you could see I'm new. I'm human. I'm going to make mistakes. As for my replies, yeah, I generally don't sum up the entire paragraph and reply to it as a whole. I do that time to time, but only when it means I'm not going to be missing out on any certain detail. I'm working on it all. At least I'm not that generic one word texter that replies to everything you say with "k", or some crap. I try to be thorough and take care with each and every reply I make. Anyway, so, it goes from the video card to the sound card? I'm not sure I follow. Yes, I always do my research. It was a work in progress for me. As soon as I got the money, I was going to try it. I thought I did too. I thought it would work. That's the only way I knew of getting it to work. I didn't say I've done this before, and it sounds amazing! Maybe you can still return the item? If the seller has no returns for the return policy, then idk, contact Paypal stating that something doesn't work (your setup). In any case, with something like this, you don't wanna buy something with a no return policy. It was a hasty, unsure, but promising, purchase. It's apparently something you really were interested in, went out on a limb and the limb broke. I can't mend the tree, but maybe I can mend your back. <3 LOL, seriously though, maybe you can work something out. I hate that I caused something like this for you, as it will probably come back at me, but oh well. At least you have a really nice sound card for your computer? It's really rare as well, having that HDMI in/out, so if you did sell it, it would probably have high resale value, maybe even more than what you paid for it, idk. It comes with Dolby HP too I believe. Duly noted, but as I tried to say, this was experimental. It was an idea. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason. If four hours and some money is all you wasted, then I'd say you could have much worse losses. I've made some purchases where I've pretty much wasted my money, but hey, it's replaceable. Time isn't replaceable though, but, we all learned something I guess.


 
   
  Sorry, when someone says "_I only know one way_". That generally means they know it works. Also, just because you are new here, doesn't mean you didn't have previous experience with that sound card. Regardless, it is done and over with now. Also, my apologies for the rant, I've been heavily sleep deprived thanks to our 1 month and have been in a bitter mood. Back on topic we go.
   
  Just got my 3rd pair of the Monoprice headphones in, CS insists that I received 2 faulty units and demanded for me to try a 3rd, we'll find out soon enough. PLYR 2 headset due to arrive tomorrow, first impressions to follow.
   
  -Erik


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> One headphone does DH not make.


 
  I've tried many over the past year (open and closed) and I've yet to hear one where Dolby Headphone was helpful or fun to listen to in the long run. Maybe it's just my ears, but I don't like the effect.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dunno why people avoid the first video on the first post. Its basically wbat DH is. No need to buy to see if it works for you.


 
  I thought the effect would be different in person.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It starts at around $130-140 for the earliest generations, up to $400 (!) for the latest HDfury4, or even $500 (!!!) for that same HDfury4 bundled with some extra devices.
> 
> By comparison, the FW900 only cost me $250 on the local craigslist. (Pricing naturally varies on such a discontinued product, but some people will gladly pay $1,000+ for one in tip-top shape.)
> 
> You could easily just buy a new display with HDMI input for as much as one of those HDfury devices, but if you're a CRT diehard who wants to keep using such prized displays, especially at gaming where they still excel above all else, or just strip the HDCP so you can use the HDMI input on a video capture device, then there aren't any alternatives I know of out there.


 
   
  My goodness. I was asking because I'm interested in it as well. Right, wow, well, good buy! Yes, easily. I got mine for $100. Check the profile. What a steal it was. Good to know. I'll probably buy one eventually. I wonder what capture card I should get..
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Sorry, when someone says "_I only know one way_". That generally means they know it works. Also, just because you are new here, doesn't mean you didn't have previous experience with that sound card. Regardless, it is done and over with now. Also, my apologies for the rant, I've been heavily sleep deprived thanks to our 1 month and have been in a bitter mood. Back on topic we go.
> 
> Just got my 3rd pair of the Monoprice headphones in, CS insists that I received 2 faulty units and demanded for me to try a 3rd, we'll find out soon enough. PLYR 2 headset due to arrive tomorrow, first impressions to follow.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I understand, but that's not what I meant. Add in an extra word. I only know one (possible) way. That's what I meant. I'd have to agree though. Most of the time, things like this don't happen with me, as I always do extensive research and am knowledgeable, but this time I should have been more specific. I know, that's not what I was saying either. I meant my posts. I'm new to a forum like this, basically. Yup, no worries, glad you got it outta your system. 1month? Get some rest.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dunno why people avoid the first video on the first post. Its basically wbat DH is. No need to buy to see if it works for you.


 
   
   
  I would totally make a video of different games toggling DH ON and OF_, if _I had a capture card.  Grabbing the audio is easy, but I can't grab the video...


----------



## kellte2

So Amazon Warehouse Deals made a boo-boo.
   
  Curiosity got the better of me and after noticing a VG condition set of DT990 250 ohm for $141, I bit.  Well, the cans arrived today and they're actually the 600 ohm model.  I currently own the 32 ohm and was curious to give a shot to the higher ohm set for that price, but now I don't know what to think.
   
  My amp is the E09k.  Is that going to be enough to drive the 600 ohm version?  Since its AWD, I doubt I will convince someone to send me the 250 ohm as a replacement, even though it is currently in stock.  Kind of stuck...


----------



## anneoneamouse

Kellte2,
   
  Certainly call Amazon customer service, and find out what your options are.
   
  I think they're legally obliged to sell you what they advertise, at the price they advertise.  Since they stock the 250 ohm, they clearly are able to differentiate between the two (or three) models.
   
  Good luck,
   
  AoN


----------



## Impulse

kellte2 said:


> So Amazon Warehouse Deals made a boo-boo.
> 
> Curiosity got the better of me and after noticing a VG condition set of DT990 250 ohm for $141, I bit.  Well, the cans arrived today and they're actually the 600 ohm model.  I currently own the 32 ohm and was curious to give a shot to the higher ohm set for that price, but now I don't know what to think.
> 
> My amp is the E09k.  Is that going to be enough to drive the 600 ohm version?  Since its AWD, I doubt I will convince someone to send me the 250 ohm as a replacement, even though it is currently in stock.  Kind of stuck...




They might be borderline with your E9, but you might as well try them. Amazon's got pretty good service tho, I'm not familiar with AWD but it's worth calling to see what they'll offer...

When I bought my DT 880 from an Amazon merchant (fulfilled by Amazon) they sent me the ohm variant I ordered (250) but it was the Pro instead of Premium as I wanted and had ordered. Costumer service told me that since it was a merchant order I'd just have to return them for a refund. I started to say that I purposely had waited to order them when the price was low so this was disappointing and before I had even gotten it all out they offered to simply price match the original price on a new order made directly thru Amazon.

In the end I ended up getting them even cheaper than my original order ($215 vs 230) due to them giving me extra credit for the return shipping and one other goofup on their part, works for me.


----------



## Impulse

lubczyk said:


> Now just to save up some money for the Hifiman HE-400 and Phillips Fidelio X1.




Man, I was looking at the HE-400 as a future upgrade from my Beyers for both music and games... But after reading about the X1 for a bit those seem so much more intriguing! Hopefully Philips brings them stateside for a reasonable price at some point.




lubczyk said:


> I've tried many over the past year (open and closed) and I've yet to hear one where Dolby Headphone was helpful or fun to listen to in the long run. Maybe it's just my ears, but I don't like the effect.




Nothing wrong with that IMO, I don't know how it's on the console space but for PC gaming it's a very polarizing effect. I do think it's very subjective to the headphones used, the specific game, and obviously your own ears.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





impulse said:


> They might be borderline with your E9, but you might as well try them. Amazon's got pretty good service tho, I'm not familiar with AWD but it's worth calling to see what they'll offer...
> When I bought my DT 880 from an Amazon merchant (fulfilled by Amazon) they sent me the ohm variant I ordered (250) but it was the Pro instead of Premium as I wanted and had ordered. Costumer service told me that since it was a merchant order I'd just have to return them for a refund. I started to say that I purposely had waited to order them when the price was low so this was disappointing and before I had even gotten it all out they offered to simply price match the original price on a new order made directly thru Amazon.
> In the end I ended up getting them even cheaper than my original order ($215 vs 230) due to them giving me extra credit for the return shipping and one other goofup on their part, works for me.


 
   
  Well, Amazon CS seemed to respond similarly to my request.  They had me place a new order for a New set of 250 Ohm DT990s.  Amazon didn't have them in stock, but they will be fulfilled by Amazon.
   
  Now, I'll be in a position to test out all 3 sets, but judging from MLE's posts on the subject, he eventually concluded that, to his ears, he liked the 250 Ohm model paired with the E09k more than the 600 Ohm.  Dunno how I'll feel, but I would rather have a set that is *definitely* driven by my amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9K is fine with tbe 600ohm. Its gonna sound more balanced and refined than the 250ohm even off the E9K. The 600ohm of handling up to 100mw of power which the E9K doesn't quite reach, but I doubt you'd listen loud enough to hit that limit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K702/65 for $419.

Cheapest I have seen it...


----------



## soulty

Hi everyone, just found out the new Astro MixAmp Pro 2013 model is available for sale.
  http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamps/mixamp-pro-2013-edition
   
  Any one got it, opinions of it?
  Looking at pairing this up with Beyerdynamic DT990 (250ohm) Editions and a Asus Xonar Essence One


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well apparently I can't do the analog audio output through RCA while doing HDMI. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500865
   
  The Wii can only do LCPM 5.1 through HDMI.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I could have told you that. LPCM is high bandwidth. HDMI only for more than 2 channels. SPDIF does two channel LPCM though.

Okay, so I've decided to make the Philips Fidelio X1 my next headphone. I have to wait until my 2 week vacation buy back money is sent to me, and then I will order it through Accessoryjack. Hopefully next check in 2 weeks.

I was very close to getting the K702/65 today, but I realize that I dont need another balanced headphone. The Yuin G1A should be enough. So stay tuned for the X1 review in a month or so. 

Had Amazon had any listings, I would already have it... oh well.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Why are you so interested in the fidelio X1?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I wonder what capture card I should get..


 
   
  The StarTech PEXHDCAP. Why this specific card? This review says it all.
   
  If you want a summary, it does everything from 240p analog RGB from retro consoles to 1080p/24 over HDMI (as long as it's not HDCP-encrypted). It's the most comprehensive capture device I've found for gaming because of that, and at $120-125 shipped, it's not all that expensive.
   
  The only drawback is added input lag if viewing the signal through the capture card, which varies depending on the software used (and probably other PC hardware too), but that happens with pretty much any capture device. If the review is anything to go by, the lowest times are around 14ms, which is just under the 16ms that a 60 Hz frame lasts for.
   
  I only have one remaining question with this card that said review did not answer: does it take 5.1 or even 7.1 LPCM over the HDMI input?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roger de ceiba said:


> Why are you so interested in the fidelio X1?




DT990 bass, HD650 warmth, treble between the two, large soundstage, comfort that is unrivaled, amazing aesthtics, not hard to drive. Need I say more?


----------



## calpis

I was thinking that my next purchase might be some Mad Dogs but now those X1s popped up but I'd still rather wait and get them domestically.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are sold to the US by Accessoryjack. Its the only place that sells them to here other than Ebay.

But I was hoping they would be sold on Amazon like the L1. Ah well... beggars can't be choosers.


----------



## calpis

Oh hah, I thought accessoryjack was a UK exporter. My bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are based in Hong Kong, but they ship directly here (free 1-2 day shipping).

http://www.accessoryjack.com/headphones/hifi/philips-fidelio-x1-high-fidelity-open-air-headphones-black.html


----------



## calpis

I do believe I have super lust for those now.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The StarTech PEXHDCAP. Why this specific card? This review says it all.
> 
> If you want a summary, it does everything from 240p analog RGB from retro consoles to 1080p/24 over HDMI (as long as it's not HDCP-encrypted). It's the most comprehensive capture device I've found for gaming because of that, and at $120-125 shipped, it's not all that expensive.
> 
> ...


 

 My man. That's awesome. Even if it is HDCP-encrypted, in comes the HDfury, lol. Or I could do Component to the capture card and HDMI to my receiver, if possible? What a great price!! Hmm, no worries. Yeah, I'm curious as well.


----------



## Impulse

calpis said:


> I do believe I have super lust for those now.




Ditto, early reviews make them sound dreamy, and they look great too. Really looking forward to MLE's review, Accessoryjack's price isn't even too bad... $420's what? Maybe $50-70 more than we'd expect if they were released here and available elsewhere? (at most)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. If it wasnt for the HE400, I would have the X1 by now. Im pretty sure I have a place only for one, so assuming I can get the X1 to sit on my head (gonna be close), I'm probably gonna be an X1 man.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> My man. That's awesome. Even if it is HDCP-encrypted, in comes the HDfury, lol. Or I could do Component to the capture card and HDMI to my receiver, if possible? What a great price!! Hmm, no worries. Yeah, I'm curious as well.


 
   
  You could do component to the capture card and HDMI to the receiver _if_ the console in question supports simultaneous video output like that. I don't think the PS3 does; I found out the hard way that if it's set for HDMI, it will only output video through HDMI and not the PS A/V multi-out port until you hook it up to an HDMI display and set it for analog video output. Had to borrow my brother's bedroom HDTV because of that...
   
  Other consoles may vary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No current consoles output video through multiple sources. Audio, yes. Video...no.

You could just get an HDMI splitter though...


----------



## indovna

ciao belli
   
  x fidelio price in italy is     http://www.amazon.it/Philips-X1-00-Fidelio-Auricolari/dp/B008ZW2T7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356011342&sr=8-1
   
   
   
   
*[size=1.35em]EUR 197,99 = 263 dollari     tax included [/size]*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If someone buys them for me at that price and ships them here, then I'd be eternally grateful. 

I'd obviously compensate the cost+shipping, though I prefer it be someone with some time spent on Head-fi.

Time to get started on my SLYR review. Still on the fence on the SLYR's scores, though I'm leaning on 8 fun-7 competitive.


----------



## ronswanson

Have you guys with the 2013 Mixamp had any audio dropout troubles?  It sounds like the usb cable they provide might be partly to blame for such issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have problems with the audio dropping out, but I use my own USB cable...

So the first post layout has been edit for easier browsing. Hope you guys like it. I was gonna start on the SLYR, but wanted to get that done first. The SLYR review will be up in the next few days. I promise.

Calpis, Nameless, and Chico, you three are on my mind when it comes to loaning my stuff out, so as soon as my stuff is situated, you three can expect some loans, soonish.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> DT990 bass, HD650 warmth, treble between the two, large soundstage, comfort that is unrivaled, amazing aesthtics, not hard to drive. Need I say more?


 
  You definitely make them sound irresistible compared to the review I gave in the X1 thread. I agree that the bass is somewhere around the DT990 level, they do have an HD650 sound characteristic to them so the mids are more recessed than a DT880 and DT990. I think the highs are more pronounced than the HD650 but another person whom has a significantly more expensive equipment setup than me (I simply use an ASUS Xonar Essence ST sound card), says the highs might be more recessed than the HD650. From what I have read about the AKG K701/702's the mids and highs are definitely not that pronounced. I think the sound stage is quite large especially when I directly compare them to my DT 880's, but I have never tested the acclaimed Audio-Technica AD700's or Sennheiser PC360's so take my word here with a bit of skepticism. From what I have read those two headphones are the kings for sound stage and positioning and I'm not sure how the X1's stack up to that. MLE will be able to comment on that more when he gets his pair early next year. Comfort is definitely unrivaled. I thought the DT 990 premiums were the pinnacle of comfort until I started using the X1's. That velour memory foam is really awesome. And yes, aesthetically they do look pretty sharp except for the cheapish looking cable.
   
  My guess is that MLE will have the following ratings for the headphones:
   
  Fun - 9 (truly amazing cinematic headphones for movies and gaming)
   
  Competitive - 7-8 (recessed signature compared to the DT880/990 and gaming headsets which push the treble on purpose)
   
  Comfort - 9-10 (the earpads are EPIC)


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I've decided to look into the he-400 or fiedelio.
   
  I want a headphone for possibly both: he-400
   
  one for mostly gaming: fidelio x1
   
  If I understand it correctly, the latter has a soudstage similar (or better) than any closed headphone, except it is open and not as uncomfortable. And while the former does not particularly excels at any one category, it is one of the most balanced headphones out there.
   
  I was going to go for the DT 770 but I think I might reconsider and just get one can that does it all. I'm probably leaning towards the he-400 although that fidelio does look intriguing. It would definitely be better for gaming, but I think I might want to do more than gaming if I spend 400 and change on a pair of headphones.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I've decided to look into the he-400 or fiedelio.
> 
> I want a headphone for possibly both: he-400
> 
> ...


 
  I personally think if you are willing to spend $400 on a headphone then the HE-400 is a damn fine choice from all of the praise it gets on here. I was heavily leaning towards the HE-400 as well but here in the EU, Amazon Italy had the Philips Fidelio X1 for €200 and that pretty much sealed the deal for me. The HE-400 in the UK goes for £400 and the Fidelio cost me £170 while it retails for £270 in the UK. I figured it was a lot easier to try out a headphone for £170 than £400. Having said that, I wish I could compare both and determine if the HE-400 is £230 better. I'm sure it is probably more balanced than the X1 but my guess would be not by much, if I simply go off of what I have read on here compared to my experience with the X1. 
   
  The DT 770 is a pretty good headphone but the bass is just too much and the clamping force is fatiguing on your skull. The Fidelio X1 has a lot of bass but it is way more controlled than the DT 770 and does not drown out all of the other sounds like the Beyerdynamic does.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would totally make a video of different games toggling DH ON and OF_, if _I had a capture card.  Grabbing the audio is easy, but I can't grab the video...


 
  I don't know very much about FRAPs, but couldn't you grab the audio during gameplay and use GarageBand or something to add it back on to a FRAPs video? Might be the cheapest option if you can get it to work.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The StarTech PEXHDCAP. Why this specific card? This review says it all.
> 
> If you want a summary, it does everything from 240p analog RGB from retro consoles to 1080p/24 over HDMI (as long as it's not HDCP-encrypted). It's the most comprehensive capture device I've found for gaming because of that, and at $120-125 shipped, it's not all that expensive.
> 
> ...


 
  So that begs the question, especially since I happen to know a few people lusting after YouTube playcasting some competitive stuff (hopefully getting the attention of sponsors), how does one record and view the signal for playing? I think you mentioned an HDMI splitter, how much do those run for, and how involved and spacious is the setup?
   
  If you're gaming on PC and your main goal is headphone surround demonstration, couldn't you record the audio, and synch it up to a FRAPs recording? Which brings up the issue, spending almost any money just for one or two examples of gaming videos with headphone surround baked in -- is it worth it?
   
  Definitely bookmarking that capture card though. At the least, CoD and Halo have replay theaters, so you could "just" record good games after the fact (this is such a great feature for competitive games to include!) in the short run, get a lag-free splitter if other games are recorded.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have problems with the audio dropping out, but I use my own USB cable...
> So the first post layout has been edit for easier browsing. Hope you guys like it. I was gonna start on the SLYR, but wanted to get that done first. The SLYR review will be up in the next few days. I promise.
> Calpis, Nameless, and Chico, you three are on my mind when it comes to loaning my stuff out, so as soon as my stuff is situated, you three can expect some loans, soonish.


 
  Woah, lucky guys! I was going to ask if we could back & forth share the Q701/65thAnniv K701 once to see if they're essentially the same or different, but it sounds like that won't happen now. Also would like to take a moment to mention that the new guide layout looks nice, much more "user friendly," gj


----------



## anneoneamouse

Can anyone recommend a Y splitter, 4 pin 3.5mm female (to receive a combined mic and headset plug) to 2x3.5mm male (to plug into two separate sockets on a soundcard) please?
   
  The SkullCandy SLYR documentation shows two separate wires connecting the headset / mic to their included amp.  But out of the (just arrived) box it's a single cable, one jack plug from the headset into a socket in the included amp.  I'd like to connect the SLYR to an Asus Xonar DGX (en route from Amazon), in a PC.
   
  I'm not sure if there're proprietary 4 pin 3.5mm, or they're all standard.  Damn you Apple, for making me doubt something as simple as a jack.
   
  I'm also not sure whether the quality of splitter will or could have any impact.
   
  Apologies for the neophyte question, but I'm unsure where common sense ends, and voodoo begins, for audio quality.
   
  Thanks
   
  AoN 
   
  (edit, added some explicit description of which were plugs / sockets, hopefully for clarity)


----------



## burritoboy9984

Delete


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So the first post layout has been edit for easier browsing. Hope you guys like it.
> 
> Calpis, Nameless, and Chico, you three are on my mind when it comes to loaning my stuff out, so as soon as my stuff is situated, you three can expect some loans, soonish.


 
   
  The first post looks sexy.  I like.


----------



## Impulse

anneoneamouse said:


> Can anyone recommend a Y splitter, 4 pin 3.5mm female (to receive a combined mic and headset plug) to 2x3.5mm male (to plug into two separate sockets on a soundcard) please?
> 
> The SkullCandy SLYR documentation shows two separate wires connecting the headset / mic to their included amp.  But out of the (just arrived) box it's a single cable, one jack plug from the headset into a socket in the included amp.  I'd like to connect the SLYR to an Asus Xonar DGX (en route from Amazon), in a PC.
> 
> ...




There's actually two TRSS standards, I think Nokia had originally defined one and then Apple came and reversed ground & mic... Which is why you see conflicting reports of Apple wired headsets working with some Android phones and not others.

Anyway, MEElectronics sells the splitters you want on their site.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If someone buys them for me at that price and ships them here, then I'd be eternally grateful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The shipping cost would be even more expensive than the headphone itself, but I guess that you already know it.
   
  I like the first post btw.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> I like the first post btw.


 
   
  Agree totally - your frequent updates and edits continue to improve it 
   
  1 other note that may be useful beside the descriptions are making a point besides the headphones that require additional amping than just the mixamp/soundcard.
   
  There are some headphones that are in the same price-range and quality level but may or may not require the extra power - ("Needs AMP", "Better with AMP" etc or something similar besides the description would help to refine the comparisons?)


----------



## ruuku

Wow, great redesign, its much, much cleaner now. Great job MLE!

On another note I kinda see what you guys are talking about with cable upgrades, my friend just came back from Japan with this: 



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






I've only spend a few hours with it, but changes are really, really small. The shorter cord (1.3M) is much more manageable though, and the silver/rhodium plugs look pretty slick with the color scheme on the Black Q701s.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have problems with the audio dropping out, but I use my own USB cable...
> So the first post layout has been edit for easier browsing. Hope you guys like it. I was gonna start on the SLYR, but wanted to get that done first. The SLYR review will be up in the next few days. I promise.
> Calpis, Nameless, and Chico, you three are on my mind when it comes to loaning my stuff out, so as soon as my stuff is situated, you three can expect some loans, soonish.


 
   
  I see you finally took my idea of using the spoiler tag feature to hide the details and make it easier to browse through the guide itself.
   
  It looks great! The prominence of those pictures makes it easy to find what you want at a glance, and center-justified text helps too.
   
  I'm certainly up for any review products you might send my way, especially headphones/headsets. One of the things that has always bugged me here on Head-Fi is that I can't really draw a good gaming comparison between my prized Stax SR-Lambda and most of the popular headphones around here due to lack of first-hand experience. (Except the AD700, which the Lambda trounces in every single way.)
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> So that begs the question, especially since I happen to know a few people lusting after YouTube playcasting some competitive stuff (hopefully getting the attention of sponsors), how does one record and view the signal for playing? I think you mentioned an HDMI splitter, how much do those run for, and how involved and spacious is the setup?
> 
> If you're gaming on PC and your main goal is headphone surround demonstration, couldn't you record the audio, and synch it up to a FRAPs recording? Which brings up the issue, spending almost any money just for one or two examples of gaming videos with headphone surround baked in -- is it worth it?
> 
> Definitely bookmarking that capture card though. At the least, CoD and Halo have replay theaters, so you could "just" record good games after the fact (this is such a great feature for competitive games to include!) in the short run, get a lag-free splitter if other games are recorded.


 
   
  For FRAPS or other PC game video recording apps like that, you just point it to the "What U Hear"/Stereo Mix input on your sound card, and it records exactly what the sound card outputs, surround processing and everything.
   
  My main incentive for getting a capture card is so that I can stream and/or record my console games with the best video quality possible (remember, I'm a guy who goes to great lengths to get RGB video signals out of consoles that predate component video), and also use those consoles with my GDM-FW900 in the process. (The HDFury would only be good for the PS3 and do absolutely no favors for the rest of my consoles.) It's for far more than just making a few headphone surround demonstration videos, which I wouldn't even need a capture card for.
   
  That said, I may also have my retrogaming desktop PC connected to the capture card as well, since I don't think FRAPS and other popular apps like that even run on Win98SE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I needed some pre-Spring cleaning. I de-centeralized the text though (except the intro and section headers, as I want to keep just them that way to easily find them.)

I wanna apologize to everyone for the reviews varying in content by quite a bit from one headphone to another. Most of the headphones were reviewed prior to my want/need to expand on them and flesh them out, so if it looks like I'm heavily favoring certain headphones content-wise, it's because those are the most recent reviews, and not because any others aren't worth it. I'm still learning how to write these reviews, and what to add to them. I can't just go back to older entries, as I no longer own those headphones and don't wanna things based off my horrible memory.

The last 4 headphones on the guide have a lot more written in the review than all the others because they were the most recent.

I plan on adding an external amp section with a few amps worth checking into (i.e. Schiit Magni, Fiio E9K, Objective O2, etc.) , as well as whether a headphone deserves being powered by an external amp or not on all the reviews (I can remember at least that much).

Great ideas given to me by you guys help make this guide much better than it's rocky and ugly looking beginnings, lol.


----------



## raband

Might be away for a few days so I just want to say thanks heaps to everyone for all the help and advice over the last year or so and helping me on my way to fantastic sounding gaming and headphones (my wallet hates you all)
   
  Hope you all have a great xmas and hope to continue the reading in the new year


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> I personally think if you are willing to spend $400 on a headphone then the HE-400 is a damn fine choice from all of the praise it gets on here. I was heavily leaning towards the HE-400 as well but here in the EU, Amazon Italy had the Philips Fidelio X1 for €200 and that pretty much sealed the deal for me. The HE-400 in the UK goes for £400 and the Fidelio cost me £170 while it retails for £270 in the UK. I figured it was a lot easier to try out a headphone for £170 than £400. Having said that, I wish I could compare both and determine if the HE-400 is £230 better. I'm sure it is probably more balanced than the X1 but my guess would be not by much, if I simply go off of what I have read on here compared to my experience with the X1.
> 
> The DT 770 is a pretty good headphone but the bass is just too much and the clamping force is fatiguing on your skull. The Fidelio X1 has a lot of bass but it is way more controlled than the DT 770 and does not drown out all of the other sounds like the Beyerdynamic does.


 
  Yea, I definately don't need pressure in my skull. I'll probably look into one of those two models (he-400 and fidelio x1). I won't purchase the DT anymore.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Ok, just got in my PLYR 2 headset. Build quality feels good, there are no rattles, plastic feels nice and the mic is nice and sensitive (has voice monitoring feature). When the mic is in the upright position, it mutes the mic like the PC 360's. The headphones are circumaural, but are a tight fit, similar to how MLE said the SLYR's were. Turning up the volume too high on the headset produces a slightly audible hum, as with most headsets that produce hiss, it isn't noticeable during action, and you mainly notice it when you are looking for it (I just turned up the mixamp volume to compensate). I only had time for about a 5 min gaming session, first impressions were very good though (especially for the $65 I paid from the 50% off sale). A more detailed post will be following in the next couple of days, but for now some pics.
   

   

   

   
  Top left to bottom right: Headset, transmitter, RCA->3.5mm, 2.5mm->3.5, 2 USB to micro USB cables (1 to charge the headset when plugged in the transmitter, and one to power the transmitter).
   

   
  Top to bottom on the right side: micro usb port to charge the headset, an EQ switch (Bass Mode, Supreme Mode and Precision Mode), and Xbox live port.
   

   
  Power/sync button, With the 4 directional button you can adjust the volume as well as adjust the game/voice volume.
   

   
  Top of the transmitter, the skull is the sync button.
   

   
  Back of the transmitter: Usb port to charge the headset, micro usb power which powers the transmitter, and 3.5mm input
   

   

   

   
   
   
  Sorry about the crappy quality. More impressions in the coming days, if anyone has any questions, lmk.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

$130... though with that 50% special.... 

If it's nearly as good as the SLYR, they have a winner right there.

Wait, why are you using it with the Mixamp? Doesn't it have it's own DH processor?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I've been thinking of buying my cousin a new headset to upgrade from his TB X12's (I feel he can do better than those) for christmas and so far the SLYR's are impressing me for the price. 
I'll be cheacking out the other headsets by skullcandy to see which I should get for him.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> $130... though with that 50% special....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The PLYR 1 which comes out "Early 2013" and is $180 retail has DH. The PLYR 2 is stereo only. If it had DH and was wireless for $130 OMG! If I don't like the headset it self, I may disassemble it and use the wireless portion like a Mixamp 5.8. If I like this, next time Skullcandy has a 50% off sale, I'm grabbing the PLYR 1 for SURE. I'll let the wife use this one to listen to TV in the bedroom, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh... that's confusing. You would think the Plyr 2 would be the higher end.

Skullcandy wanted to send me the Plyr 2 but told me it was stereo. I assumed it didnt have an analog input to hook my Mixamp up to. Should have went for those first, lol.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No current consoles output video through multiple sources. Audio, yes. Video...no.
> You could just get an HDMI splitter though...


 
   
  Thank you sirrrr. What would be the best splitter (from Monoprice of course)?
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> You could do component to the capture card and HDMI to the receiver _if_ the console in question supports simultaneous video output like that. I don't think the PS3 does; I found out the hard way that if it's set for HDMI, it will only output video through HDMI and not the PS A/V multi-out port until you hook it up to an HDMI display and set it for analog video output. Had to borrow my brother's bedroom HDTV because of that...
> 
> Other consoles may vary.


 
   
  Ah, okay. Booo, that card only supports 24fps  @1080p


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh... that's confusing. You would think the Plyr 2 would be the higher end.
> Skullcandy wanted to send me the Plyr 2 but told me it was stereo. I assumed it didnt have an analog input to hook my Mixamp up to. Should have went for those first, lol.


 
   
  They are pretty sweet sounding when paired with the Mixamp. I would say they are more than comparable to A40's if not slightly better for gaming. I only heard the A40's once, so take that how you want. If the Skullcandy Dolby Headphone sounds as good as the Astro version (which it should since Skullcandy owns Astro), then there would be no reason to purchase A40's imo when you can get a wireless version for $70 less. definitely won't take the place of my PC360's or AD700's, but color me VERY happy.
   
  -Erik


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Booo, that card only supports 24fps  @1080p


 
   
  It's a drawback, no doubt about that, but a minor one in my case since the X360 and PS3 don't even render natively at 1920x1080. Some games don't even render at 1280x720 internally.
   
  That resolution drop is for the sake of freeing up the hardware enough to deliver more shader effects and details at a playable framerate (and sometimes not even then, in some cases).
   
  The really important part for me is that it supports 240p RGB. Saves me from having to spend the big bucks on an upscaler. Seriously, some of the upscalers covered here run upwards of $500! Even then, most of them still hover around $320 and are thus considerably more expensive than a $125 capture card, even if they don't need to be installed in a desktop PC to work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think for the sake of recording gameplay, I'd want one that does 1080/60 as recording at 720p was a pain. My TV doesnt do great with 720p, and would rather take a 1080p signal, even if its upscaled like ps3 and 360 games.

I didnt love the picture quality of the Hauppauge due to it being Component. That, and it stopped working... :rolleyes:


----------



## chicolom

I wonder how these are:
   
*Happauge HD PVR 2*, w/HDMI support > http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr2-gaming.html
   
  Blitzbox Gamepro 1080 > http://blitzcast.com/gamepro1080/
  (not sure if it has HDMI, but it looks a little cheap and scary)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

1080i for PS3. Gawdammit.

The Elgato one one seems to be very well liked, smaller, and easier to use...

Hmm...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 1080i for PS3. Gawdammit.
> The Elgato one one seems to be very well liked, smaller, and easier to use...
> Hmm...


 
   
   
  Hmm indeed.
   
  People are finally putting HDMI inputs + passthrough on these external capture cards.  Only supporting component was the main reason I've held off on one....


----------



## Milanista

So I've been testing out the Monoprice set but I swapped in my fa-011, I felt the stock headphones were too muddy. The first thing I noticed was distortion of high frequencies at moderate and above volumes. In a game like Halo 4 this can be annoying. That being said, positioning isn't too bad. It's fairly easy to hear someone running around corners or behind you. In big fire-fights it's easy to get distracted with the fair amount of distortion. Overall there is an advantage gained with this set. I don't chat much so I didn't use the amp setting, which created significantly more hiss. It says in the description you can control the volume of all 8 channels, so far not true. These impressions are after two long sessions on a XBOX. The astro mixamp is finally available for separate order so I think I'll check that out next. I'm also looking at some neutral signature headphone's in the near future to mix it up.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Anyone think the SLYR would be a worth while upgrade from the x12's. Trying to get a present for my cousin and I think a new headset would be a good idea since he plays alot of online shooters.
I also found out he own's and BEATED Dark Souls of all game's. Made me order the game since I thought it was a little embarrassing because I'm the game nut of the family.:tongue_smile:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I for one really like the Slyr. Its fantastic for music, great for fun gaming, and good for competitive.

I'm writing in the review now...

*edit:*

Nearly 4 hours later... please let me know what you guys think, and if you have any questions. The review isn't FINAL quite yet, though it may not be much different when it is. I do believe this is the meatiest review I've put to date, lol. That or close to the HD650's review.



> *Skullcandy Slyr (*headset*)*
> http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/slyr-black-yellow
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

See, I purchased an HDTV @ "only" 720p (can do 1080i, but IDC), precisely because my only high-def sources right now are my 360 (and computer, but that's hooked to a monitor), and it's PLENTY sharp for me, and plays smoothly (but not upsample smooth, I HATE that gliding soap-opera look). I also think it's better for display lag to have neither the screen nor console try to process a 720p signal up to 1080, which is different from the framerate lag hit that would be introduced at trying to run a game on an Xbox (or even PS3) at native 1080i/p. Plus, 720p is great for Youtube posts.
   
  I'll try recording "What U Hear" with the Recon3D's surround processing vs vanilla stereo for Skyrim and (when I get it) Deus Ex: HR. More THX TSP samples on youtube would be good.
   
  I also MIGHT be getting a first-release FiiO E12, though I'm a nut for spending the money (helped some people out and got some cash). Should be a very potent portable amp, good to compare to/compliment my Tube amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh... I have a hard time deciding on whether I use it, or they, that or these, and is or are, etc, when it comes to headphones. Is headphones ONE or two headphone*S*? I get them mixed because I see them as two (a pair of drivers), but then again, it is just one item. I wonder how many reviews I have botched up with these mistakes. ;___;

BTW guys, AGAIN, these scores are not meant to be compared to others on my guide. I can't stress this enough.

That said, guys, am I adding too many references within these reviews? I was told by an IRL friend that reviews focus on the product (obviously) but mine are looking more like blogs, because I reference other products regularly in my reviews. 

I always said I'm anything but a pro at this.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh... I have a hard time deciding on whether I use it, or they, that or these, and is or are, etc, when it comes to headphones. Is headphones ONE or two headphone*S*? I get them mixed because I see them as two (a pair of drivers), but then again, it is just one item. I wonder how many reviews I have botched up with these mistakes. ;___;
> BTW guys, AGAIN, these scores are not meant to be compared to others on my guide. I can't stress this enough.
> That said, guys, am I adding too many references within these reviews? I was told by an IRL friend that reviews focus on the product (obviously) but mine are looking more like blogs, because I reference other products regularly in my reviews.
> I always said I'm anything but a pro at this.


 
  Well I definitely found it helpful having references within each review. I was tossing up between HD598, PC360 and DT990. I think a few references in your reviews about the different bass in each headphone swayed me towards the DT990


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that's mostly why I reference to other products. If I don't, I get a sea of private messages asking me the same things. I tend to forget to reply too. Lol. I mean, a LOT of messages. So i try to cover what I think they'd ask me.

This is my hobby, not a job, so while I'm not a pro and I take my personal liberties, I do try to be as professional about it as I can without being swayed by external influences. My opinions are 100% my own, and they will always remain as such. If I'm EVER sponsored, you guys will be the first to know. Lol, not like I could hide such a blatant change. I'm kind of blunt with my opinions. I apologize to those that take my posts to heart. I'm not overly sensitive at times to others, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't think it's bad to reference other products, as nothing really exists in a void (so many competitors), but at the same time, I think it's more useful to point out differences and leave room for the reader to decide if it's best for them. That also gives you wiggle-room to not be blamed for their choice, unlike soamusing saying "this is the only way I _know" _instead of saying "I _think _this is the only way..." The key, of course, is you'll keep getting better through practice (as is always evident). I'm sure we'll pipe in with suggestions along the way


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That said, guys, am I adding too many references within these reviews? I was told by an IRL friend that reviews focus on the product (obviously) but mine are looking more like blogs, because I reference other products regularly in my reviews.
> I always said I'm anything but a pro at this.


 
   
  References are good IMO.  I like to have as many reference points (other headphones) as possible to compare a headphone too.  The more references, the quicker I can zero in on what I can expect it to sound like, and vice a versa.
   
  I do the same thing whenever I write a review.
   
  So what if it's not the same style as a place like IGN or whatever.  Those reviews don't tell me much, when they say things like "the sound was clear and we were able to positioning the enemy."  That really doesn't tell me squat about how it sounds, so those reviews are just quick read.
   


Spoiler: For%20example%2C%20IGN's%20three%20page%20of%20review%20of%20the%20A40s%20only%20gave%20three%20sentences%20to%20the%20actual%20sound%20of%20the%20A40s...



_"As for the audio performance of the headset itself, the A40s are superb. The sound field is rich and three-dimensional, and we were able to effectively locate sources of sound (often sneaking up behind us in Call of Duty 4), and eliminate them. The natural equalization of the headset is a bit subdued in the lower end of the spectrum, but highs and mids are crisp and vibrant. Those looking for a little extra low-end response can tweak the output by altering the EQ on other parts of their audio chain (PC EQ, receiver EQ, etc.)."_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yikes, that's not much of a review. O_O

I'm beginning to feel bad about my older reviews not having almost anything on them. Still, I don't get paid like they do. 

Still, this is embarassing.... for example, the Philips SHP-2500 review...



> Very comfortable, and has a surprising decent sized soundstage for gaming. Not bad AT ALL for gaming with Dolby Headphone. Won't top the KSC75, but if you need isolation when gaming for the least amount of cash, this is a fine choice.
> 
> Comfort-wise, they are pretty comfortable, the only issue that even with their velour padding, they quite hot due to a very good seal. No air escapes = sweat galore.




I don't even remember what they sound like, so it's not like I can add anything off memory. I almost feel like removing these very non-reviews...


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yikes, that's not much of a review. O_O
> I'm beginning to feel bad about my older reviews not having almost anything on them. Still, I don't get paid like they do.


 
  Mayhaps that's why you're more free to make comparisons? I dunno, I'm particularly fortunate to have TWO points of reference to the differences you point out in reviews.
   
  P.S. is my new avatar pic boring?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's pretty barren... like the majority of my reviews. 


To be honest, I remember why I made them that short. I initially just wanted to make a quick reference guide, and not actually a full, blown-out headphone guide. It just sort of...evolved from there. I mean, look at the D7000 review. It's very short, and they are my fave headphone ever. I can go back and edit more into it, though I hate going off memory even if they're pretty fresh on my mind. Hard to forget their sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can tell you guys right now, my reviews will never be that short again. So expect them to be like the the Slyr, HD650, and Pro 2900, among others in length.

edit: I could've sworn I hit the edit button. Ugh. Sorry for double post.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> P.S. is my new avatar pic boring?


 
   
  Needs more explosions.  Like mine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wanted to like that post, FB style.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh... I have a hard time deciding on whether I use it, or they, that or these, and is or are, etc, when it comes to headphones. Is headphones ONE or two headphone*S*? I get them mixed because I see them as two (a pair of drivers), but then again, it is just one item. I wonder how many reviews I have botched up with these mistakes. ;___;
> BTW guys, AGAIN, these scores are not meant to be compared to others on my guide. I can't stress this enough.
> That said, guys, am I adding too many references within these reviews? I was told by an IRL friend that reviews focus on the product (obviously) but mine are looking more like blogs, because I reference other products regularly in my reviews.
> I always said I'm anything but a pro at this.


 
   
  A headphone is *one unit*. The headphone is large, while the earphones are soft. When you refer to the unit as a whole you use singular, and plural when referring to the *earphones* (pair). I suppose people use the term headphones interchangeably to refer to both the earphones and the unit as headphone, hence the confusion.
   
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/headphone?q=headphone
   
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/earphone?q=earphones


----------



## NamelessPFG

After a bit more fiddling with the PS3's audio settings, I found that any plug-and-play USB audio device (that it would treat as a headset) can have its audio re-routed through the main output where all the game audio would come through.
   
  This means that I really don't need to keep around the Recon3D USB after all; just plug in one of my USB sound "cards", plug a mic into that, and have the chat audio running through S/PDIF and my SU-DH1. Even a dedicated USB microphone should work, in theory.
   
  Now if I could just find a buyer...MLE's honest impressions have seriously damaged its resale value even at $70 shipped. I'll probably just have to eat some eBay fees on top of shipping for this one. Oh well, a necessary sacrifice in the pursuit of gaming audio product knowledge.
   
  And speaking of reference points, one of the things that has always bugged me is that I just don't have that many of them with regard to headphones. The AD700 and HTF600 are probably the most popular headphones I've tried, and neither is particularly favored these days. Meanwhile, my favorite headphone for everything (but especially gaming) is a 1979 former flagship electrostatic set that most people have not heard (MLE included) and either won't find for sale all that often or cannot afford (when factoring in amplification).


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> Sigh... I have a hard time deciding on whether I use it, or they, that or these, and is or are, etc, when it comes to headphones. Is headphones ONE or two headphone*S*? I get them mixed because I see them as two (a pair of drivers), but then again, it is just one item. I wonder how many reviews I have botched up with these mistakes. ;___;
> BTW guys, AGAIN, these scores are not meant to be compared to others on my guide. I can't stress this enough.
> That said, guys, am I adding too many references within these reviews? I was told by an IRL friend that reviews focus on the product (obviously) but mine are looking more like blogs, because I reference other products regularly in my reviews.
> I always said I'm anything but a pro at this.




I disagree with your friend, a point of reference is immensely helpful for people that are gonna be cross shopping several of the same headphones on your thread... And I know there's tons of people doing that. It's particularly useful with the way you're doing the scoring (which I'm not such a big fan of but it's too late to overhaul that now anyway).

I enjoyed the SLYR review, I think your writing has evolved a good deal since your earliest reviews. The SLYR review in particular touched on pretty much anything anyone would wanna know before buying them, only other thing you could've commented on is how effectively they isolate (compared to the CAL in particular, which I know aren't great at it)...

It's not something I particularly care about, or something you'd typically think about dealing mostly with open headphones, but I imagine anyone opting for closed cans may very well care. Plenty of gamers have to put up with extraneous noise while getting their game on.


----------



## lubczyk

I have to give Mad Lust Envy mad props for recommending the Slyr headphones. I can pick up more details than with the Samson SR850, the annoying treble peaks are gone and it's great that I can use it with my PC as well as my console. Really like the mic quality. The best headset I've yet used. It's closed as well so to bother anyone else. I'm surprized on the comfort (I wear glasses) since it's such a cheaply priced headset.
   
  I use EQ3 setting for games. I just love hearing enemies speaking and the clink clank of grenades.
   
  PS: The Mixer for the SLYR is pretty darn quiet. No annoying hiss or anything of that sort.


----------



## executioner

Hey guys what is the cheapest usb adapter to get a mic working on the ps3? For the xbox 360 only need a 3.5 to 2.5 adapter right?  How do you mute when using a clip on mic like the dx one?


----------



## ruuku

1) http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1356143445&sr=8-2&keywords=usb+mic+input
You might be able to find it cheaper on DX/Monoprice...though the Syba one is confirmed to work:http://www.cgwerks.com/steveblog/2010/12/31/inexpensive-stereo-headset-solution-for-ps3/

2)Yes.

3)Unless you buy more expensive headsets, there is no mute/ just unplug the mic. The new Modmic V3 has plans to add on a mute switch, but pre-orders are not open for it yet.


----------



## Impulse

The new Modmic looks nice, hopefully they get their production issues solved so they go on sale soon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I MEANT to put an isolation section in the review. I knew I forgot something! :rolleyes:

Actually, I didnt find it to isolate all too well. The CAL is notorious for being bad at keeping external sounds out, but they at least keep sound in. The SLYR leaks out a bit more...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It's a drawback, no doubt about that, but a minor one in my case since the X360 and PS3 don't even render natively at 1920x1080. Some games don't even render at 1280x720 internally.
> 
> That resolution drop is for the sake of freeing up the hardware enough to deliver more shader effects and details at a playable framerate (and sometimes not even then, in some cases).
> 
> The really important part for me is that it supports 240p RGB. Saves me from having to spend the big bucks on an upscaler. Seriously, some of the upscalers covered here run upwards of $500! Even then, most of them still hover around $320 and are thus considerably more expensive than a $125 capture card, even if they don't need to be installed in a desktop PC to work.


 
   
  Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the PS3 has a few games capable of 1080p, but if I was going to get a capture card, I'd probably be using it with the PC as well. Right. RGB = red green blue? That's insane, much too expensive.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> 3)Unless you buy more expensive headsets, there is no mute/ just unplug the mic. The new Modmic V3 has plans to add on a mute switch, but pre-orders are not open for it yet.


 
   
  Or you can use a cable that has a mute switch built-in.  That's what I use to mute my modmic.
   
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/cabx1talkbackcable-2.aspx
  http://store.turtlebeach.com/talkbackxboxlivecablepuckbkoptional.aspx


----------



## ruuku

impulse said:


> The new Modmic looks nice, hopefully they get their production issues solved so they go on sale soon.



Me too. The more I use the Labtec mic, the more I'm convinced that I don't really need a mute switch, however the developments of replaceable/interchangeable mic capsules leads me to believe that the wait will be worth it. I'm not too sure of it, but the noise cancelling on the Labtec seems to work well. The party I play with all commented that the mic is much clearer than with the stock AX720 5.1 mic. Not too sure how the mic on the 7.1s stands up but I'm pretty sure it would be the same.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> After a bit more fiddling with the PS3's audio settings, I found that any plug-and-play USB audio device (that it would treat as a headset) can have its audio re-routed through the main output where all the game audio would come through.
> 
> This means that I really don't need to keep around the Recon3D USB after all; just plug in one of my USB sound "cards", plug a mic into that, and have the chat audio running through S/PDIF and my SU-DH1. Even a dedicated USB microphone should work, in theory.
> 
> ...


 
  I'm confused my that first sentence. So, I could use a USB sound card with the Ps3? Would it get me virtual surround?


----------



## Wild

I don't know if anybody has commented on the Sennheiser PX100 II yet (I did a search of the thread and nothing came up) so just wanted to post some impressions since I just received them in the mail today.
   
  I just going to start out with this: these little guys are amazing for gaming!  (Using the mixamp) They're like a baby version of my HD558s.  I just played a few rounds of zombies on Call of Duty and directionality is great.  The 558's are great too, but I actually think the PX100's are a step up. The rear positioning is nothing short of spectacular.  I usually do a quick battery of spinning with my eyes closed within games to see if I can accurately place stuff within the game, and it was so easy to pick up the locations of the zombies, it was almost unfair....almost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Aside from performing excellently for the competitive side, the musical side of these bad boys is amazing too. I think I might like the sound signature of these better than my 558's as I feel like they do bass better.  Very similar besides that.  Maybe a bit more refinement from the 558's.
   
  Considering how small, comfy, and cheap these are, I feel like I just cheated the system or something. These shouldn't sound so good....AND be so good for gaming.  Maybe it's just the honeymoon period of a new headphone or something. I'll keep using these over the next few weeks and update my opinion on them.  So far, these are worth every penny, even if only for gaming.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I'm confused my that first sentence. So, I could use a USB sound card with the Ps3? Would it get me virtual surround?


 
   
  No, the PS3 uses USB audio devices for voice chat only. (Exception: Sony's own wireless PS3 headsets. They seem to have set those up so that if the PS3 detects a USB receiver for one of those headsets, it'll mix the game audio, with optional virtual surround of some sort, and then pipe the two mixed channels to the headset. Those headsets are just stereo devices when used with PCs.)
   
  This is strictly in regards to voice chat mixing, and for PS3 use, I can just keep the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1 with its Dolby Pro Logic II and DTS decoding capabilities. (Even AAC, though I've never encountered any bitstreamed AAC source material.)
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the PS3 has a few games capable of 1080p, but if I was going to get a capture card, I'd probably be using it with the PC as well. Right. RGB = red green blue? That's insane, much too expensive.


 
   
  RGB = Red, Green, Blue, yes. In fact, VGA is RGB with separate horizontal and vertical sync. (Some RGB-capable systems have a composite sync pin, or in the case of most Sony hardware, put sync on the green signal.)
   
  Do note that component video has RGB-colored RCA plugs, but is a color difference format (Luma/Y, Red Difference/Pr/Cr, Blue Difference/Pb/Cb), NOT RGB. That's why you need transcoder boxes like the CSY-2100 to convert RGB to component. (Most modern HDTVs throw fits with 240p RGB signals transcoded to component, though.)
   
  And you're right, that's insanely expensive. That's why the discovery of this capture card is such a huge deal for videophile retrogamers.
   
  Oh, and a question for Mad Lust Envy: got any plans for a Slyr vs. PC360 comparison?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, as I do not own the PC360 anymore.

As for the PX100-II... cant say anything about them, though I did own the PX200-II, and it was one of the worst headphones I owned. Horrible at getting a seal, and they wouldn't stay on my head.  Couldn't get a bead on it's SQ as the lack of seal ruined it completely.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





wild said:


> I don't know if anybody has commented on the Sennheiser PX100 II yet (I did a search of the thread and nothing came up) so just wanted to post some impressions since I just received them in the mail today.
> 
> I just going to start out with this: these little guys are amazing for gaming!  (Using the mixamp) They're like a baby version of my HD558s.  I just played a few rounds of zombies on Call of Duty and directionality is great.  The 558's are great too, but I actually think the PX100's are a step up. The rear positioning is nothing short of spectacular.  I usually do a quick battery of spinning with my eyes closed within games to see if I can accurately place stuff within the game, and it was so easy to pick up the locations of the zombies, it was almost unfair....almost
> 
> ...


 
   
  The PX100 II are pretty dark sounding.  The soundstage also sounded pretty small and intimate on them, and didn't have the size and separation of some full sized open cans.  I had to work harder to locate stuff with them then using something like the KSC75. 
   
  If they work for you that's what matters though.


----------



## Wild

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, as I do not own the PC360 anymore.
> As for the PX100-II... cant say anything about them, though I did own the PX200-II, and it was one of the worst headphones I owned. Horrible at getting a seal, and they wouldn't stay on my head.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well I haven't tried the PX200s yet so I can't say anything on them, but FWIR they seem to be a step back in sound quality in exchange for the isolation.  I'm really liking these PX-100 II's though.  Maybe it's the house Sennheiser sound I like, since I also like the HD 558s (with foam mod for a bit more bass).
   
   



chicolom said:


> The PX100 II are pretty dark sounding.  The soundstage also sounded pretty small and intimate on them, and didn't have the size and separation of some full sized open cans.  I had to work harder to locate stuff with them then using something like the KSC75.
> 
> If they work for you that's what matters though.


 
  Ya I guess they are. I think I just love dark sounding gear 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  My quick review (I guess) of them was just that, quick.  I felt that for the couple of hours or two I was using them with the mixamp, I didn't lose anything at all from my HD558s.  Maybe a bit less depth to the soundstage, with some added bass. For a $50 headphone, compared to $160, I think that's pretty awesome. 
   
  However, I will keep using these over the holidays and keep comparing them to my HD558s to get a more accurate assessment of these little dudes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I wasn't so in love with the KSC35, I was leaning on trying the PX100s to be honest. Thats why I bought the PX200-II in the first place. I probably would like the PX100, but have no need for a portable. The KSC35 is all I need.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

does anyone know if best buy sells any good audio equipment (like amps) because by some fluke i have a 1000$ best buy gift card too spend and I was thinking it might be a good time to get some equipment to go along with my HD558's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ive seen the Dragonfly and UDAC2 at the Magnolia section, next to the good headphones.

The ESW9 is a great portable headphone with really liquid mids, warm sound, and good bass. BB sells them.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

hear nice things about the dragonfly.
  Know any good mixamps like the DSS?
   
  I don't know if I should get a new set of can's now but just for lulz how do they sound compaired to the 558's or 598's.
  The DT series of headphones DO interest me however.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Best Buy sells the Mixamp, apparently, and that will be better than the DSS in terms of functionality.

The ESW9 is closed, so it doesnt have the airyness or clarity of those Senns. The ESW9 however has a thick sound with intimate vocals. It's...different.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Genres I listen to are rock, metal, techo, and trailer music think two steps from hell and brand x, which type of sound do you think fits better for those?
  Personaly the 558's are my first REAL headphones that I own so I don't have the most experience. Though clarity is something I enjoy greatly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, the ESW9 isn't a fast headphone, so not sure it's for you.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

You sure BB sells the mixamp? Been checking online at there site and i don't see it anywhere.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, some people here have bought it directly at the store. Gotta remember, the Mixamp was hard to get for a while, and just came back in stock on Astro's site. Not sure how that affects Best Buy's stock.


----------



## executioner

MLE the new layout is great! 
   
  Clicking around the reviews just noticed when you click to show on the labtec mic it takes you to the top of the page.  Try it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks for catching that, executioner. I have no idea why, but no matter what I do, it re-directs to the top of the page. So I'll just leave it without spoiler tags (it's a short entry anyways).


----------



## DoctaCosmos

If they sell a brand of something you like then they can usually get any product the company makes.  I was told that by a magnolia sales person.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They need to start stocking some Sennheiser HD650s, AKG K702 65th Anniversaries, Philips Fidelio X1s then. 

They sell all three brands.

Dunno about headphone amps though.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/22/aftershokz-bluez-bone-conducting-headphones/

Holy What? :eek:


These must sound amazing for gaming!


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They need to start stocking some Sennheiser HD650s, AKG K702 65th Anniversaries, Philips Fidelio X1s then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I've tried their regular wired ones before and I still get the same problems that I have with all wrap around headphones... my head is just too big :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/AfterShokz-Sportz-AS321-Sport-Headphones/dp/B009G89ZDU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1356198315&sr=8-3&keywords=aftershokz

Hmm... maybe it warrants a TRY? Lol.

Hmm, cal, if you have problems, I'm sure I would. 

OMGOMG, My Magni and Modi are in the city... sadly I'll be sleeping when they arrive, but at least I'll have them at home. <3

edit: Lol, Got my HE-400 back, but with velours on! So no more pleather, and two pairs of velours.

SO glad to have them back. Now just waiting on my Schiit stack to arrive, then the Yuin G1A next week.

BOOM HERE THEY ARE


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I measured my head yesterday and apparently we have a similar head size. Roughly 45.5 cm. Is the he-400 comfortable around your head?
   
  Let me know how the mixamp+magni+he-400 combo works. I might be mistaken but the sound coming off the mixamp is just amplified when it goes from the mixamp through 3.5mm to rca cables > magni and then the headphones. It is not distorted or otherwise altered.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400 has enough space. No worries. It should fit your noggin.

Yes, you're using the Mixamp as a pre-amp, so the signal is amplified by the Mixamp and then amplified by the Magni. Not completely ideal, but the only way to get a good, amped Dolby Headphone signal for your headphones. Trust me, it's considerably better to amp after the Mixamp than using the Mixamp alone.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I was looking into the fidelio x1 thread here in head-fi and that headset looks impossible to adjust. It is supposed to be comfortable but like you said, it might not fit people with larger than average heads. Philips should remedy this situation.


----------



## Impulse

Maybe the reason it's taking longer to reach the US is they're building a longer band or stretch range for us fatheads?


----------



## tml09

I just received the K550 yesterday. I'll do a comparison test w/ the DT770 Pro. First impressions are great. The K550 looks and feels fantastic. They are really a work of art. They're solid, the band is metal, and they're very comfortable. The pads are pleather, but I don't mind them. I've been wearing them for the past 2 hours just fine. 
   
   I've not yet gamed with it yet, but I will when my Mixamp comes. The soundstage is very airy and instrument separation is good. The bass is noticeably weaker than the 770s (heh), but it's present, tight, and high quality. The sound signature is more balanced than the 770s are, without any real emphasis on ... well... anything. The K550 has mids too! The isolation is not as good as the 770s, and getting a seal is a bit of a pain at first, but the drivers can rotate (which helps with getting a 'custom' fit). If you have a small head, I'd be wary of purchasing these. I have a decent sized noggin, and if it were any smaller, I don't think there would be any seal to speak of, which would make the bass sound anemic. Try these out if you can. 
   
  The K550 leaks a bit more sound than the 770s as well, since it doesn't death-clamp your head like the 770s do. They just sort of press on to your head gently.
   
  Right now I'm running them through my E17 through my computer. I haven't fully burned them it yet, so I'll spend the next few days doing that. We'll see if that changes anything. I'll have more concrete info probably next week or so. My Mixamp and Objective2 should be coming this week as well, so it should be a fun comparison. I'll compare the K550 and DT770, as well as the Objective2 vs E17, and finally the Recon3d vs the new Mixamp.
   
  Any game suggestions? I have BF3, Modern Warfare, and Modern Warfare 2 on 360. I'll also compare a few of my favorite FLAC tracks, just for fun.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> No, the PS3 uses USB audio devices for voice chat only. (Exception: Sony's own wireless PS3 headsets. They seem to have set those up so that if the PS3 detects a USB receiver for one of those headsets, it'll mix the game audio, with optional virtual surround of some sort, and then pipe the two mixed channels to the headset. Those headsets are just stereo devices when used with PCs.)
> 
> This is strictly in regards to voice chat mixing, and for PS3 use, I can just keep the otherwise much more versatile SU-DH1 with its Dolby Pro Logic II and DTS decoding capabilities. (Even AAC, though I've never encountered any bitstreamed AAC source material.)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Got it. That's cool that it does DTS. I see. Yeah, oh, I sort of understand that. Actually, that's kinda confusing, but that's because I don't know enough. I don't care though. Right, I can see why it's such a nice card for those.


----------



## Evshrug

tml09,
I wish my Best Buy would let me try the K550 on. But half of the employees don't seem to know they carry AKG headphones. You make 'me sound nice though, and it seems the 270 series headphones are good too (in a different way).
For game suggestions, I recommend the first two Modern Warfares, Dead Space, Bioshock, Halo games, Oblivion (but I get sick of de music), and more, but I'm falling asleep as I type this (wrote quote reply 1st)


soamusing777 said:


> Got it. That's cool that it does DTS. I see. Yeah, oh, I sort of understand that. Actually, that's kinda confusing, but that's because I don't know enough. I don't care though. Right, I can see why it's such a nice card for those.



Egads, you're doing it again. Can't tell what the heck you're talking about without referring back to Nameless' posts after every one of your sentences, and even then I get thrown off if your reply to one sentence is longer than one sentence or you mash together a few "yeah, yes, no, i see, oh" in one sentence. Honestly SoAmusing, it would be much kinder if you just typed your replies *in bold* among the post you are replying to.


----------



## lubczyk

@MLE
   
  So your setup is:
   
  Console --> Mixamp --> Magni?
   
  Does this setup need the Pyst cables?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, that setup would be how I do it.

You dont need to spend $20 on PYST cables (which is rca male/male anyway and wont directly connect to the Mixamp). You can use any RCA male to 3.5mm male cable. I use Monoprice ones, or Mediabridge (off Amazon). Very high quality, for a fraction of the price.

PYST cables are just RCA male/male. For a fraction of the price, I rather just get some off Monoprice or Amazon.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, that setup would be how I do it.
> You dont need to spend $20 on PYST cables (which is rca male/male anyway and wont directly connect to the Mixamp). You can use any RCA male to 3.5mm male cable. I use Monoprice ones, or Mediabridge (off Amazon). Very high quality, for a fraction of the price.
> PYST cables are just RCA male/male. For a fraction of the price, I rather just get some off Monoprice or Amazon.


 
  Ah, Thanks for that info. I wish companies would just include these necessary cables and add like a dollar or two to the cost. Reminds me of my Brother printer which came with everything but that one cable one needed for setup.
   
  By the way, isn't the Magni a downgrade to your SA-31 and to your previous Lyr? I haven't seen many people downgrading before; except that one guy who didn't like his HD800 off his iPod.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, but it has a volume knob. Something I need. I'm constantly tweaking volume, and the SA-31's digital buttons arent fast enough for my taste. For Mixamp use, definitely want a knob.

Also the signature is more airy, brighter, so it's easier to pick cues fwih so far. Its more ideal for gaming than the SA-31's warm, meaty sound. The Mixamp 2013 is a warm amp. It would definitely pair better with a more neutral amp.

Lol, I preferred the E9 over the Lyr. I dont care for the tube sound. I'm SS all the way.


----------



## lubczyk

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, but it has a volume knob. Something I need. I'm constantly tweaking volume, and the SA-31's digital buttons arent fast enough for my taste. For Mixamp use, definitely want a knob.
> Also the signature is more airy, brighter, so it's easier to pick cues fwih so far. Its more ideal for gaming than the SA-31's warm, meaty sound. The Mixamp 2013 is a warm amp. It would definitely pair better with a more neutral amp.
> Lol, I preferred the E9 over the Lyr. I dont care for the tube sound. I'm SS all the way.


 
  Do you feel the Magni has a stronger amp section than the E9 since we're on the subject?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're post 10000! Wow.

The Magni is a little stronger at low ohms (1.2watts vs 1 watt at 32ohm), and a quite a bit more at high impedance. Power wasn't really lacking on the E9 other than for 600ohm headphones not getting all they wanted (fwir, lots of headphones tend to take a max of 100mw, while the E9 capped at 80mw, and E9k at 75mw..which is basically identical to the E9 reastically speaking. The Magni caps at 120mw at 600ohm. . The main benefit of the Magni is the lower output impedance for a more universal versatility in terms of what you can hook up to it without altering frequency response. 

I find them similar, though the E9 is a little warmer and musical, while the Magni is more neutral and cleaner. The E9 and E9K have their benefits though, such has having a line out, and pre-amp out, as well as low and high gain. The E9 will drive headphones louder due to having a gain of 12 I believe, while the Magni is set at 5.

I dont have the Fiios to compare, but having the E9K recently, I feel the difference is very minute.

Of course, im basing it off memory. Still, I was comparing the E9K to the SA-31 with all the 990s, and felt that the E9K sounded excellent even next to the SA-31.

The short time I spent with the Magni... I actually felt the HE400 sounded noticeably improved on the SA-31 over the Magni. It had a stronger body of bass, and energy. The HE400 sounded fantastic on the Magni, but definitely not on the level of the SA-31. It does sound more technical and less musical. Kind of like my experience with the old K701 vs the Q701.

Again early impressions. Time will tell.

Also, not accounting for the ODAC va Modi which may have skewed the HE400 towards the SA-31 even more.

So far, the Magni is a definite winner. But so is the E9K. My old E9 had its issues next to the E9K, like noisy volume pot.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, but it has a volume knob. Something I need. I'm constantly tweaking volume, and the SA-31's digital buttons arent fast enough for my taste. For Mixamp use, definitely want a knob.
> Also the signature is more airy, brighter, so it's easier to pick cues fwih so far. Its more ideal for gaming than the SA-31's warm, meaty sound. The Mixamp 2013 is a warm amp. It would definitely pair better with a more neutral amp.
> Lol, I preferred the E9 over the Lyr. I dont care for the tube sound. I'm SS all the way.


 
   
  Sweet now I know what amp to get for my 558's thanks man.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well... not sure I would like the 558 on the Magni, personally. I think the HD558 could use some meat and thickness. The Magni won't do that.

That's personal preference. If you love your 558 now, you'll love it with the Magni.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well... not sure I would like the 558 on the Magni, personally. I think the HD558 could use some meat and thickness. The Magni won't do that.
> That's personal preference. If you love your 558 now, you'll love it with the Magni.


 
  Sorry I was talking about the mixamp 2013.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah. Its good. I like the bottom right preset that adds warmth and mids too.



with flash, because I have horrible lighting in the room...



Don't let the image fool you. The SA-31 is 1.5x the width, and about 3x as deep as the Schiit stack. ODAC wedged in between them.


----------



## nurre

Hey, I didnt want to create a new thread on headsets so I'll post it here.
   
  So I'm looking for a decent headset for LAN and gaming sessions. Now I already have DT770 + a quality sound card + desktop mic so no need to suggest those. As I said, I will use this headset only for LAN events and in important matches. The desktop mic and the Zalman clip mic both take too much background noise since I have 2 dogs and 2 birds so I really need a headset to play.
   
  I've tried Sennheiser PC 360 and Sennheiser's ear pads just don't fit me, for some reason, I can't really play with the comfortably. My budget is about 170$ and so far I've been looking at Razer's Tiamat and Gameshark and not much else, so any recommendations? I prefer closed and around-the-ear headsets. Logitech I just don't trust, Steelseries seems kinda cheap build.
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't have enough research or experience with closed headphones to make a solid upgrade recommendation... Maybe start by listing what improvements you would like to hear from the DT770?
The SkullCandy SLYR seems to be an example of SC stepping up their quality, and has been getting a favorable response for a closed headset. It's also on sale for ridiculously cheap. You might be able to do better for your extra budget, but I just personally haven't been interested in spending over $100 on closed headphones... Though I am curious about the AKG 271, I read that the mids are very realistic.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> ...
> with flash, because I have horrible lighting in the room...
> 
> Don't let the image fool you. The SA-31 is 1.5x the width, and about 3x as deep as the Schiit stack. ODAC wedged in between them.



D'aw, the ODAC, ish shoooow cyouuuute! The Shiit stack looks very handsome, though of course the ODAC begs the question about why the Shiit DAC is as large as the amp.

-----
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom 

Needs more explosions. Like mine. 
-----
I see your explosion, and raise you in stereo & badassery.


----------



## racefanmartin

I would like to use the PC360's  will they connect to xbox 360?
   
  Noob here on this stuff....
   
  Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





racefanmartin said:


> I would like to use the PC360's  will they connect to xbox 360?
> 
> Noob here on this stuff....
> 
> Thanks


 
  Yes, but you'll at least need an RCA to 3.5mm headphone adapter, and optimally you'd want a surround processor like the Mixamp or Recon3D (which come with all necessary cables for most purposes). If you PM NamelessPFG, he might give you a deal on the Sound Blaster Recon3D, the first DSS is cheap if you buy it used (but it has lots of hiss), the Mixamp is now finally available for individual purchase (I think). Good luck!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is the best headset, for sure. If you want more fu, the A40 combo with the Mixamp is pretty hard to beat.

Evs, lol, I guess its that big to keep the dimensions similar. Im sure they could have made it smaller.


----------



## eskimo

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yes, but you'll at least need an RCA to 3.5mm headphone adapter, and optimally you'd want a surround processor like the Mixamp or Recon3D (which come with all necessary cables for most purposes). If you PM NamelessPFG, he might give you a deal on the Sound Blaster Recon3D, the first DSS is cheap if you buy it used (but it has lots of hiss), the Mixamp is now finally available for individual purchase (I think). Good luck!


 
   
  Yeah, they can be had around the £100 margin. You get all the necessary cables and can plug your mp3 into it too. It works well, but feels very cheap, and the cables don't seem overly great either. I found the Mixamp can give off a good bit of hiss is everything isn't clean and you have your 'phones loud.


----------



## racefanmartin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 is the best headset, for sure. If you want more fu, the A40 combo with the Mixamp is pretty hard to beat.
> Evs, lol, I guess its that big to keep the dimensions similar. Im sure they could have made it smaller.


 

 Thanks for the help....I was looking at the A40's also and it seems for my $$ they would be the choice.....I need to step up from my old TB X11's
  I'm sure I will notice a huge difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well dont expect too much. The A40 is solid, and is worth it with the combo, but there are things I prefer out of the SLYR. But the A40s is more well rounded for gaming. The PC360 and Mixamp is considerably more expensive, and the PC360s arent as fun.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





nurre said:


> So I'm looking for a decent headset for LAN and gaming sessions. Now I already have DT770 + a quality sound card + desktop mic so no need to suggest those. As I said, I will use this headset only for LAN events and in important matches. The desktop mic and the Zalman clip mic both take too much background noise since I have 2 dogs and 2 birds so I really need a headset to play.


 
   
  How about sticking a modmic on it?  It sounds like the mic is a problem, and any headset you get will have a boom mic like the modmic.  Since it's a boom mic, I assume it will perform similar to other headset mics and will pick up less noise than a desktop or clip-on mic.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> tml09,
> I wish my Best Buy would let me try the K550 on. But half of the employees don't seem to know they carry AKG headphones. You make 'me sound nice though, and it seems the 270 series headphones are good too (in a different way).
> For game suggestions, I recommend the first two Modern Warfares, Dead Space, Bioshock, Halo games, Oblivion (but I get sick of de music), and more, but I'm falling asleep as I type this (wrote quote reply 1st)
> Egads, you're doing it again. Can't tell what the heck you're talking about without referring back to Nameless' posts after every one of your sentences, and even then I get thrown off if your reply to one sentence is longer than one sentence or you mash together a few "yeah, yes, no, i see, oh" in one sentence. Honestly SoAmusing, it would be much kinder if you just typed your replies *in bold* among the post you are replying to.


 
   
  I quoted him, then did my reply. I'm still working on it.


----------



## ronswanson

Does anyone know how well Onkyo's "Theater-Dimensional Virtual Surround" works with headphones? I've seen it listed as a feature on some of their receivers.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> I quoted him, then did my reply. I'm still working on it.



I don't think you have malicious intent. I wish I could help more than just pointing it out, but I don't know how to make you see what I see about your sentence and thought structure that confuses me. But inevitably I check the forum when I wake and before bed, so like now I've been up for 18 hours and I just don't have enough energy to hold both posts in my mind at once and reconstruct when you read something and reply to that sentence/idea. If I was replying to what I just typed in your style, pretending I was you, it would look like "Glad you don't think so. Thanks for trying a little, but I need better advice. What good would seeing what you see do? Clearly you should sleep more, because you barely make sense either. OMG, now you're going to reply like I do? IT'S INCEPTION! Or at least an expanding loop. 'Glad you don't think so' should be written 'Glad you don't think I write to purposefully be confusing' so that the sentence forms a complete idea, not a sentence fragment that doesn't make sense when it stands by itself..."

I will stop myself from further replying as myself to myself that is imitating SoAmusing, because it is getting absurd and "going deeper" into more convoluted events happening at once _doesn't make your movie deeper, Christopher Nolan. WOOOOOOOMP!_

Clearly I'm CooCoo again from fatigue. And it was disturbingly fun. G'night.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

skim reads and doesn't have any knowledge and thinks he's a professional   i don't know how many times i learned about something from experience and looked back at some of the things i said and thought to myself about how big an idiot i must look.  js


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> Does anyone know how well Onkyo's "Theater-Dimensional Virtual Surround" works with headphones? I've seen it listed as a feature on some of their receivers.


 
  It may have nothing to do with headphones, just speakers, that I have found out so far.
   
  EDIT, it looks the the Onkyo Theater Dimensional Virtual Surround, is a combo of Dolby Pro Logic IIz and NEO 6, (fake surround sound).


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't think you have malicious intent. I wish I could help more than just pointing it out, but I don't know how to make you see what I see about your sentence and thought structure that confuses me. But inevitably I check the forum when I wake and before bed, so like now I've been up for 18 hours and I just don't have enough energy to hold both posts in my mind at once and reconstruct when you read something and reply to that sentence/idea. If I was replying to what I just typed in your style, pretending I was you, it would look like "Glad you don't think so. Thanks for trying a little, but I need better advice. What good would seeing what you see do? Clearly you should sleep more, because you barely make sense either. OMG, now you're going to reply like I do? IT'S INCEPTION! Or at least an expanding loop. 'Glad you don't think so' should be written 'Glad you don't think I write to purposefully be confusing' so that the sentence forms a complete idea, not a sentence fragment that doesn't make sense when it stands by itself..."
> I will stop myself from further replying as myself to myself that is imitating SoAmusing, because it is getting absurd and "going deeper" into more convoluted events happening at once _doesn't make your movie deeper, Christopher Nolan. WOOOOOOOMP!_
> Clearly I'm CooCoo again from fatigue. And it was disturbingly fun. G'night.


 
   
  LOL, malicious intent was one of the possibilities? I hate your mind. I really do, but then again, reading further, I love it. No, seriously, no need to help. I GET IT. I appreciate your efforts. All right then. You should get some rest. Mmmmk. I loved that movie, jerk. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. Hating you now, lol. Night.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Now that I have a receiver, I suppose I could add on to it. THX TruStudio or Dolby Headphone? See below. If you know of any other options, tell me so I can add them here. I forgot the name of that expensive option, lol.
   
  Options
   
  1. Dolby Headphone
  2. Silent Cinema
  3. Thx TruStudio
  4. CMSS-3D - N/A - See 8.
  5. Random Company's Surround Sound
  6. Sony's Implementation
  7. MyEars - N/A - See 8.
  8. Sound Card - Won't work. It's been tested by BurritoBoy.
  9.
   
  leaving
   
  1. DH
  2. SC - Have it
  3. THX TS
  4. Random - If the Generic or Random one was the best option, or even the better option, I'd think more people would know about it. Even so, it's hard to find something other that what I've listed here.
  5. Sony's - Sony is popular. If Sony's implementation was the best for surround sound, then I wouldn't even be doing this.
   
  leaving
   
  1. DH - If I want PCM, I'd have to get a HK receiver, correct? I already have a receiver, so that's outta the question. I'll take DTS gladly though! What supports this?
  2. THX TS - Recon3D usb is the only one available for console right?


----------



## Mysterious

Just Curious if anyone of you had any experience with the Corsair Vengeance series specifically the Corsair vengeance 1500.


----------



## tmaxx123

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVme7rxdTLk[/VIDEO]

MLE's headset guide is becoming famous 

And it another update about my headsets...
I have decided to keep the mmx 300 and will sell the 2013 a40. Beyerdynamic really made a special headset that really brings out the finer details that aren't as obvious on the a40's. 

And I got a new mixamp. Supposedly it's the same model, but the new one has a few small differences. For one, when I power it on, the eq preset button lights spin once. My "old" 2013 mixamp pro didn't do that, the lights just faded on.

And more notably, the volume knob is less buggy. My last mixamp would cut in and out left and right channels when adjusting sound. So it was frustrating trying to get balanced sound. New one is always balanced unless I go down to about ten percent, which then the channels start turning on and off.

And I feel like the newer mixamp delivers better overall sound, for whatever reason. Maybe placebo? Lol


----------



## BoredUser

I hope its right place to do it...
  I've been searching for pc gaming headset for a LONG TIME, too much infact. I've watch hunders of videos and threads from alot of forums and still didn't had the decision.
  In the end I think I wolud buy a sound card and match him a good quailty headphones or a decent pair of cheap headset. (I prefer headset because of the mic).
  I was looking on the asus xonar D2X 7.1 PCI-E sound card. what do you think of him, can I get better one arround the same price?
  and i still got 125$ to spend on headset which I dont know to choose. been thinking on the AD700 but I heard they had a pretty bad problem with their sound leak (in and out) and sometimes my surronding is noisy. 
  been thinking the skullcandy's slyr too but theyr'e usb connected to the pc, does usb headset get effected by the sound card?
  Tried the siberia v2 with out the usb or sound card, low build quailty broke after a year and the mic wasn't working.
  I play fsp games and shooters like cs cod and others that are competetive games where directional accurracy, positional audio and pin pointing your enemy is required.
  .If the headset will match the ps3 too its a bonus but not a must
  sorry for my english I'm from israel
  10x for helping


----------



## ronswanson

soamusing777 said:


> Now that I have a receiver, I suppose I could add on to it. THX TruStudio or Dolby Headphone? See below. If you know of any other options, tell me so I can add them here. I forgot the name of that expensive option, lol.
> 
> Options
> 
> ...




Denon, pioneer, and newer harmon kardon receivers have have their own implementation of headphone surround sound. Maybe no one uses those with headphones enough to talk about it, or those versions suck. I don't know.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

In my experience with these alternate headphone surround modes i found they usually are worthless because they don't give good positioning ques and usually the overall sound is a degrade in quality.  It is however a neat way to listen to some music.  Not so much electronic music or hiphop


----------



## DoctaCosmos

soamussing, what do you mean if you want PCM?  I really don't understand your way of explaining things.  EVERY receiver for home theater except 2.0 has pcm.  pcm is just the universal language that is used to decode all the dolby and dts formats.  
  even the mixamp uses pcm.


----------



## Impulse

boreduser said:


> been thinking the skullcandy's slyr too but theyr'e usb connected to the pc, does usb headset get effected by the sound card?




You can connect it thru regular 3.5mm cables to take advantage of your sound card if you want, the USB connection/DAC is optional (if you use it you effectively bypass the sound card). As for open headphones, they'll all leak sound out to varying degrees and they'll all let outside noise in, so if you constantly play in a noisy environment you probably want at least one closed headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im sure he means linear PCM, in which optical cables cant pass through due to high bandwidth, aside from 2.0. HDMI does, which is why receivers are the most optimal if SQ is top priority.

I have no idea why companies like Astro havent made an HDMI enabled DH device. Still, im kind of sure that DH only accepts compressed audio, and will find the inherent basic Dolby Digital signal found in Dolby True HD, so there is no benefit. However other surround processors like SC may indeed process the linear PCM signal into headphone surround.

No experience with that, so I honestly don't know.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i guess i'm just completely confused by his last post.
  How is he going to add onto his receiver?
  Your ps3 doesn't bit stream multi-channel only stereo so it needs to decode whatever your bluray or game is giving it audio coded wise like dts or truehd.Then it has to send the information out out lpcm (doesn't mean there will be a large bitrate but allows it to be if need be).  
  Pretty much any receiver accepts lpcm. The playstation already did the work.
  Then you want something to give surround duty to headphones.  I think you're going in the wrong direction.  If you feed a multichannel signal to the receiver and want the headphone to do surround then it will downmix it to stereo then add it's own stereo processing to give a surround effect.  If you want high quality through the headphones then set the playstation to bitstream and then let the receiver do the processing for it's surround mode.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

you know you'll never get a full bandwidth lpcm signal unless you're using redbook cd right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Yuin G1A should be here in an hour, though I have to keep checking my mailbox, and see if the mailman is there, because if not, he's probably just gonna leave a note. Sigh...

So excited. Lol.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

just leave him a note telling him you are home  anxiously yet patiently waiting for the package lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

next one


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmaxx123 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVme7rxdTLk
> MLE's headset guide is becoming famous




Thanks for the link. That's awesome. 

Though I hear I'm also infamous in some other forums, lol.





Got the Yuin G1A! They're quite the sexy looking pair of clip ons.

The clips are SUPER comfy, and are smoothened out so it's not sharp edges like the KSC35. Because they're plastic and not rubberized like the KSC75, they are incredibly easy to put on, unlike the 75s, which tend to grip on the ears. They have the exact same form factor as the 75's clips.

Upon first listen using the Modi/Magni stack, they're incredibly well balanced with a smooth presentation. Not even one song in, and I already know these are keepers. I was afraid they'd be bass light, but they have a nice, balanced amount of bass. So happy with them. $150 and they definitely sound like better balanced, and more refined KSC35s. Maybe not a $100 improvement, but they are definitely worth it to me.

I do see that pushing the drivers closer adds SQ, so I may just swap out to the KSC35 clips, as those push the drivers closer, though I will lose some comfort. The 35's clips don't bother me until a few hours of use, so it's no biggie. Not that I feel they need them, as the stock clips sound great. They're definitely not bendable like the 75's rubber/metal clips. I'll try those and see, though, I've bent those quite a bit. We'll see...

Keep you guys posted.

Not doing much today, so while I test these out, I'll be adding the external amp section. 

*edit: External Amp section added, with the Fiio E9K, O2, and Magni listed. *

Let me know what you guys think.

Jesus, the Yuin G1A is very insensitive. I have to max out my Fuze to get an appreciable volume. I expected that though. They ARE 150ohm, lol. These definitely desire some amping. Still, I'll be taking them to work to use this way just for a few weeks just to spend some time with them.

Hmm, looks like I'll be using the KSC75 or stock clips for them, maybe. The 35 clips for some reason makes the treble harsher. The stock clips are good, and more detailed, though the bass isn't as deep. The 75 clips are the bassiest, for sure. They're just a pain in the ass to put on. I have a hard time putting the clip on my left ear for some reason.

I may just stick to the stock, since they're the most detailed and balanced, and these aren't formusic, but for tv, and anime... gotta outweigh the pros and cons.



Flash = brighter looking foams. They're actually black


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

MLE, was the 5 gain sufficient when used with the mixamp and he-400? What about mic use? Did you use y-splitter (mic and headphone) going to the magni? (I'm pretty sure it uses a 6.3mm for output) so I don't know how feasible that would be. It would probably be best to plug the y splitter directly to the mixamp and then the 3.5mm to rca cables to the headphone jack of the y splitter, and then to the back of the magni. 
   
  mixamp>y splitter>mic
                     I
             3.5 mm to rca
                     I
                 Magni
                     I
               headphones
   
  What do you think?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, 5 gain should be fine. The Magni has quite a lot of reserve on the volume pot. 

Yes, that's how to do it.

I bought MW2 for $10 yesterday. Looks like I made the right call. That game truly has the best FPS positional cues in Multiplayer I have ever heard.

Did about an hour of gaming with the Mixamp -> Magni -> Yuin G1A. FWIH so far, I'm gonna call it: Fun: 7 Competitive: 7.5 Comfort: 9.5. Very preliminary assumptions on how I'm gonna score it. 

REALLY good, balanced sound for gaming. I'm impressed. I still think the price is a bit steep, but it is an honest to goodness great sounding clip-on.

I'm gonna go back to the SLYR and try them on this game to see if it fares even better than CoD4.

Then I'm jumping to the A50s, as they are next on the reviews. Hopefully they will fare better too. I expect dual 6 scores though.

I seem to be having issues with the new Mixamp 2013. I haven't been able to use it for the past few days as it works for a few minutes then the audio cuts off completely. Like just...gone. After I'm done reviewing the A50s, I'm gonna remove it from the chain to see if hooking up the Mixamp 2013 to the A50 decoder's optical out is what's causing this issue, though I don't think so, as my 5.8 works just fine.


----------



## kellte2

Mixamp Pro 2013 question...
   
  Anyone here having problems with it cutting out completely on the Xbox 360?  I've read some posts on the Astro forum suggesting using a different USB cable, but this is not the experience that I was expecting when I decided to move up in the world from the DSS2.  Interestingly enough, the DSS2 had *less* hiss and was able to drive my DT 990 600 ohm headphones with my E09k at far fewer decibels, but maybe this has something to do with mixing the voice and game audio.
   
  Definitely deeper/warmer sounding than the DSS2 (which I had set to the Flat EQ setting).  "Flat" on the 2013 Mixamp is still very bassy.  Positioning definitely seems better on the Mixamp when compared to the DSS2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kellte2 said:


> Mixamp Pro 2013 question...
> 
> *Anyone here having problems with it cutting out completely on the Xbox 360*?  I've read some posts on the Astro forum suggesting using a different USB cable, but this is not the experience that I was expecting when I decided to move up in the world from the DSS2.  Interestingly enough, the DSS2 had *less* hiss and was able to drive my DT 990 600 ohm headphones with my E09k at far fewer decibels, but maybe this has something to do with mixing the voice and game audio.
> 
> Definitely deeper/warmer sounding than the DSS2 (which I had set to the Flat EQ setting).  "Flat" on the 2013 Mixamp is still very bassy.  Positioning definitely seems better on the Mixamp when compared to the DSS2.







mad lust envy said:


> *I seem to be having issues with the new Mixamp 2013. I haven't been able to use it for the past few days as it works for a few minutes then the audio cuts off completely.* Like just...gone. After I'm done reviewing the A50s, I'm gonna remove it from the chain to see if hooking up the Mixamp 2013 to the A50 decoder's optical out is what's causing this issue, though I don't think so, as my 5.8 works just fine.




Lol, I just mentioned this right before you. So... looks like the new Mixamp is having issues... rather unfortunately.

And I 100% agree. The new Mixamp's flat EQ is on the bassy side. So I don't feel it's perfectly flat.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I just mentioned this right before you. So... looks like the new Mixamp is having issues... rather unfortunately.
> And I 100% agree. The new Mixamp's flat EQ is on the bassy side. So I don't feel it's perfectly flat.


 
   
  My bad.  I went out of order this time and posted then searched.  I saw your post on the Help Desk forum, MLE.  Guess we'll just need to wait for the supposed January firmware drop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure I have to send these back anyways... hoping it can work long enough for me to do the review. If not, I'll be doing the A40 review based off it's sound with the 5.8.

So far though, I prefer the SQ on the Mixamp 5.8 over the 2013. Just too much bass to be 'flat'. It works for brighter headphones though.

The Mixamp 2013 was clipping the bass SO badly when I was watching the Dark Knight Rises on Blu-Ray. I mean, BADLY. I switched to the 5.8, and the bass was fine. Hmm...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Im sure he means linear PCM, in which optical cables cant pass through due to high bandwidth, aside from 2.0. HDMI does, which is why receivers are the most optimal if SQ is top priority.
> I have no idea why companies like Astro havent made an HDMI enabled DH device. *Still, im kind of sure that DH only accepts compressed audio*, and will find the inherent basic Dolby Digital signal found in Dolby True HD, so there is no benefit. However other surround processors like SC may indeed process the linear PCM signal into headphone surround.
> No experience with that, so I honestly don't know.


 
   
  I would think DH accepts any type of audio signal and then processes it. Over the next couple of days, I'll hookup my HTPC to my Marantz and play the 5.1 test sound, but I'm pretty sure it will still work. As to why Astro hasn't made an HDMI enabled DH device, I would guess it's the fact that so few games support sound other than Dolby Digital, and adding a feature like that would jack up the price too much and put it out of reach for many people.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My bad, what I mean is that in order to have the correct Dolby Headphone processing, it must take in a Dolby Digital signal. Dolby Signal is compressed. You can feed it a lossless Dolby True HD signal, and it will just find the embedded Dolby Digital signal and convert that.

As for other signals, it basically just turns them into 2 channel PCM and adds the processing, which is basically useless and detrimental to sound quality without any benefits other than smoothening treble and expanding soundstage at the expense of having extra reverb. 

It won't even take a DTS signal at all. Those devices that do, convert DTS to DD first, which then gets turned into DH. 

Unless the new DH converts lossless directly to DH (which I highly doubt), the only way to get lossless converted to virtual surround is other emulations like Harmin Headphone, Silent Cinema, etc, and those are different from DH. They too many not even use lossless audio, and instead do like DH and convert it/find the compressed embedding to convert.

Just a theory. Not sure how those other processors do their magic.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> MLE's headset guide is becoming famous
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, LvlCap! Bravo MLE!! I watch him all the time. That is just awesome.  Noticed he mentioned the Asus Xonar STX, not the Creative, while the former has Dolby Headphone. Well, I'm convinced now, lol. I'd like to try it out myself, but I don't want to be limited to DD. I'd like at least DTS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You need to realize that the virtual surround processing itself may be more beneficial than DTS on a weaker virtual surround processor. DH is so widely popular in the console market, and I'm willing to bet that it's because it ticks many boxes.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote:


doctacosmos said:


> i guess i'm just completely confused by his last post.
> How is he going to add onto his receiver?
> Your ps3 doesn't bit stream multi-channel only stereo so it needs to decode whatever your bluray or game is giving it audio coded wise like dts or truehd.Then it has to send the information out out lpcm (doesn't mean there will be a large bitrate but allows it to be if need be).
> Pretty much any receiver accepts lpcm. The playstation already did the work.
> Then you want something to give surround duty to headphones.  I think you're going in the wrong direction.  If you feed a multichannel signal to the receiver and want the headphone to do surround then it will downmix it to stereo then add it's own stereo processing to give a surround effect.  If you want high quality through the headphones then set the playstation to bitstream and then let the receiver do the processing for it's surround mode.


 
   
  You are. When I say add on, I mean hook up the device, say mixamp or otherwise, to my receiver. I know that. That's not what I'm talking about at all. It's essentially the same if the PS3 or receiver does it.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Im sure he means linear PCM, in which optical cables cant pass through due to high bandwidth, aside from 2.0. HDMI does, which is why receivers are the most optimal if SQ is top priority.
> I have no idea why companies like Astro havent made an HDMI enabled DH device. Still, im kind of sure that DH only accepts compressed audio, and will find the inherent basic Dolby Digital signal found in Dolby True HD, so there is no benefit. However other surround processors like SC may indeed process the linear PCM signal into headphone surround.
> No experience with that, so I honestly don't know.


 
   
  That's exactly what I mean. Yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about also. So that's what SQ means, lol. I don't know why either, myself. That's not the case right? The HK receiver with Dolby HP can take PCM, yeah? That makes sense, but do you have any references to back that up? DD is the same as Dolby True HD? The Yamaha receiver does process the PCM signal, applying the SC tech.
   
  Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> In my experience with these alternate headphone surround modes i found they usually are worthless because they don't give good positioning ques and usually the overall sound is a degrade in quality.  It is however a neat way to listen to some music.  Not so much electronic music or hiphop


 
   
  Thanks for the input sir!
   
  Quote: 





ronswanson said:


> Denon, pioneer, and newer harmon kardon receivers have have their own implementation of headphone surround sound. Maybe no one uses those with headphones enough to talk about it, or those versions suck. I don't know.


 
   
  I know, but thank you for the input.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the HK receiver has HDMI inputs. It has to be able to take PCM. Pretty sure Bitsream is for SPDIF signals like Optical and Digital Coaxial, and uses a lot less bandwith than PCM. Not entirely sure.


----------



## Impulse

External amp section looks good, covers all the practical basics so it should be useful for anyone that's not familiar with that kinda thing but is jumping into the guide and looking at recommendations within it.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You need to realize that the virtual surround processing itself may be more beneficial than DTS on a weaker virtual surround processor. DH is so widely popular in the console market, and I'm willing to bet that it's because it ticks many boxes.


 
   
  Totally realize it now in your next post that I quoted. That's totally right.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My bad, what I mean is that in order to have the correct Dolby Headphone processing, it must take in a Dolby Digital signal. Dolby Signal is compressed. You can feed it a lossless Dolby True HD signal, and it will just find the embedded Dolby Digital signal and convert that.
> As for other signals, it basically just turns them into 2 channel PCM and adds the processing, which is basically useless and detrimental to sound quality without any benefits other than smoothening treble and expanding soundstage at the expense of having extra reverb.
> It won't even take a DTS signal at all. Those devices that do, convert DTS to DD first, which then gets turned into DH.
> Unless the new DH converts lossless directly to DH (which I highly doubt), the only way to get lossless converted to virtual surround is other emulations like Harmin Headphone, Silent Cinema, etc, and those are different from DH. They too many not even use lossless audio, and instead do like DH and convert it/find the compressed embedding to convert.
> Just a theory. Not sure how those other processors do their magic.


 
   
  Thank you for the correction. I kinda wish I would have known this before, but hey, this receiver is multipurpose. I never knew that though; that is surely news to me and interesting as well. I might just buy a mixamp now, old school style one of course. Yeah, wow. So, the only way it won't downconvert it to 2channel PCM first, is if its Dolby True HD? Huh, wow, so the SU-DH1 takes in DTS, converts it to DD, then DH is applied. Well, DH should do that! Better sound quality in lossless.Yup, that's right then. Wait, which part is theory? lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you have a PS3, it has an option called Bitstream Mix which converts DTS to Dolby Digital which the Mixamp converts to Dolby Headphone. Only works on movie discs.

This is mentioned on the first post...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, if you have a PS3, it has an option called Bitstream Mix which converts DTS to Dolby Digital which the Mixamp converts to Dolby Headphone. Only works on movie discs.
> This is mentioned on the first post...


 
   
  Nope. I have a CECHA-01. I don't think it's capable of bitstreaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has an optical out. Of course it's capable of bitstreaming. It's the only way to get surround sound to older receivers. I had that old model too.

Just got to video settings (assuming you're on the latest update). The Bitstream Mix option should be there.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It has an optical out. Of course it's capable of bitstreaming. It's the only way to get surround sound to older receivers. I had that old model too.
> Just got to video settings (assuming you're on the latest update). The Bitstream Mix option should be there.


 
   
  So, anything with optical bitstreams? That's not really important right now though. So, what is the significance to this bitstreaming then? It just sends 1's and 0's (the raw data) to the receiving device, yeah? What's this for? I thought those video settings were just for movies, not games, but technically, every PS3 game is a BD, so, I guess it applies to those as well. That's more news to me! Man, I'm loving you right now! lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bitstream, from my understanding takes less bandwith than PCM, and is the only way to carry so many audio channels at once. That is why you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS-HD through optical cables.

And yes, the video settings are JUST for videos, not games, so you CAN'T take a DTS enabled game and convert it to Dolby Digital for Dolby Headphone processing.

You're sort of making my head hurt, lol. Read the first post!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My bad, what I mean is that in order to have the correct Dolby Headphone processing, it must take in a Dolby Digital signal. Dolby Signal is compressed. You can feed it a lossless Dolby True HD signal, and it will just find the embedded Dolby Digital signal and convert that.
> As for other signals, it basically just turns them into 2 channel PCM and adds the processing, which is basically useless and detrimental to sound quality without any benefits other than smoothening treble and expanding soundstage at the expense of having extra reverb.
> It won't even take a DTS signal at all. Those devices that do, convert DTS to DD first, which then gets turned into DH.
> Unless the new DH converts lossless directly to DH (which I highly doubt), the only way to get lossless converted to virtual surround is other emulations like Harmin Headphone, Silent Cinema, etc, and those are different from DH. They too many not even use lossless audio, and instead do like DH and convert it/find the compressed embedding to convert.
> Just a theory. Not sure how those other processors do their magic.


 
   
  I don't think Dolby Headphone is dependent on the Dolby Digital/AC-3 codec specifically, as that would be far too limiting, but that it just needs a 5.1 or 7.1 source of any kind to work, be it Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, LPCM, analog, or even a properly decoded Dolby Pro Logic II signal. The source signal gets decoded into its component channels first, then the DH processing is applied.
   
  It just so happens that most 5.1 sources are encoded in Dolby Digital to begin with, especially console games on the original Xbox and beyond, likely because of a Dolby Digital Live-esque tech being included by default. (Now if they'd just mix them straight into HRTF, like a binaural mix...)
   
  If you use DH via a PC sound card or an A/V receiver with HDMI, like those older Harmon Kardon models, you would most likely get virtual 7.1, not just virtual 5.1, using the same basic HRTF mixing methods.
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Nope. I have a CECHA-01. I don't think it's capable of bitstreaming.


 
   
  The fat PS3s can't bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-Master Audio over HDMI, but they're perfectly capable of bitstreaming Dolby Digital and DTS over S/PDIF. (Probably HDMI too, but it's not strictly necessary because HDMI has the bandwidth for 7.1 LPCM, which is already superior in quality due to being lossless.) Otherwise, it would be in the same precarious position the Wii U is regarding effectively getting discrete surround sound signals (not matrixed ones like Dolby Pro Logic II) out of the console and into a headphone surround processor.
   
  I'd still rather have the near-complete PS2 compatibility of the CECHA over the HDMI bitstreaming of the slim PS3s. Too many PS2 exclusives I missed out on last time, and I don't even have any A/V receivers with HDMI inputs, let alone loudspeakers to connect to them that would make the higher-end formats audibly superior.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Bitstream, from my understanding takes less bandwith than PCM, and is the only way to carry so many audio channels at once. That is why you can't get Dolby True HD or DTS-HD through optical cables.
> And yes, the video settings are JUST for videos, not games, so you CAN'T take a DTS enabled game and convert it to Dolby Digital for Dolby Headphone processing.
> You're sort of making my head hurt, lol. Read the first post!


 
   
  Right. Boooooooo. Then it is of no importance then. I did read the first post! Lol. I guess I should have specified this was for gaming only. Idc about videos, lol. So, back to what I asked then. For gaming, what is the significance of having anything other than mixamp for DH then? It obviously doesn't matter what the source is, since it just takes the DD signal itself. Original question >>> (So, the only way it won't downconvert it to 2channel PCM first, is if its Dolby True HD? Huh, wow, so the SU-DH1 takes in DTS, converts it to DD, then DH is applied.)


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I don't think Dolby Headphone is dependent on the Dolby Digital/AC-3 codec specifically, as that would be far too limiting, but that it just needs a 5.1 or 7.1 source of any kind to work, be it Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-Master Audio, LPCM, analog, or even a properly decoded Dolby Pro Logic II signal. The source signal gets decoded into its component channels first, then the DH processing is applied.
> 
> It just so happens that most 5.1 sources are encoded in Dolby Digital to begin with, especially console games on the original Xbox and beyond, likely because of a Dolby Digital Live-esque tech being included by default. (Now if they'd just mix them straight into HRTF, like a binaural mix...)
> 
> ...


 
   
  So, were back to square one! Then the source sound does matter!
   
  Right.
   
  Not only that, but I would get PCM DH.
   
  Yeah, capable of bitstreaming for videos only apparently. Right right.
   
  Me too! Near complete? Isn't it 100%? Both you and I own the Hardware 60gb version, yeah? Not the partially software, partially hardware based one.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got the Yuin G1A! They're quite the sexy looking pair of clip ons.
> 
> Upon first listen using the Modi/Magni stack, they're incredibly well balanced with a smooth presentation. Not even one song in, and I already know these are keepers. I was afraid they'd be bass light, but they have a nice, balanced amount of bass. So happy with them. $150 and they definitely sound like better balanced, and more refined KSC35s. Maybe not a $100 improvement, but they are definitely worth it to me.


 
   
  Cool. 
   
  They sound nice.  I wish they were more like $80 though.  Is there any info about a warranty?  I would feel bad buying something so fragile without a warranty.  A lifetime warranty would be even better.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  If they really make the KSC 35/75 obsolete, I may have to get some eventually.  I use the clip-ons enough that I owe it to myself to look into higher end ones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> So, anything with optical bitstreams? That's not really important right now though. So, what is the significance to this bitstreaming then? It just sends 1's and 0's (the raw data) to the receiving device, yeah? What's this for? I thought those video settings were just for movies, not games, but technically, every PS3 game is a BD, so, I guess it applies to those as well. That's more news to me! Man, I'm loving you right now! lol.


 
  Not every optical connection will bitstream, unless it has something at the end of the S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) connection that can uncompress the bitstream in to individual PCM audio signals.
  Otherwise all you can send down S/PDIF (optical & coaxial) is 2-channnel PCM.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Cool.
> 
> They sound nice.  I wish they were more like $80 though.  Is there any info about a warranty?  I would feel bad buying something so fragile without a warranty.  A lifetime warranty would be even better.
> 
> If they really make the KSC 35/75 obsolete, I may have to get some eventually.  I use the clip-ons enough that I owe it to myself to look into higher end ones.




I don't see anything warranty-wise on the package, and Head-Direct has a 30-day refund...

I too agree. I think with the build and sound, it should be more like $80 for sure.


It's improvement over the KSC75/35, but not sure it's worthwhile to be honest. They are all stellar to me, and I'd feel better spending the $45 on the KSC35 than $150 on the G1A.

I think you'd like them though, for sure.

Just... that price hurts. Being a KSC owner like me, you may be let down as to how improved it is.

I need more time with them though. I do have them and I'm sure I'll keep them, but not completely sold yet. The 35s are so good too... I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Me too! Near complete? Isn't it 100%? Both you and I own the Hardware 60gb version, yeah? Not the partially software, partially hardware based one.


 
   
  The CECHA models have the COK-001 motherboard with what amounts to a whole PS2 on it (EE, GS and RAM), so it's almost full compatibility.
   
  I say "almost" because due to the PS3's lack of PS1/PS2 controller ports (and FireWire/IEEE 1394), that inherently rules out certain games that may depend on such peripherals. Most of those are light gun games, but with those, the bigger issue is how the light guns themselves are built with direct-view CRTs and raw, unprocessed analog video signals in mind.
   
  Fortunately, USB peripherals are still supported; I can use my Hori Flightstick 2 without problems in Ace Combat 5, and I wouldn't be surprised if I could also use things like the Logitech Driving Force (Pro) or the EyeToy.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The CECHA models have the COK-001 motherboard with what amounts to a whole PS2 on it (EE, GS and RAM), so it's almost full compatibility.
> 
> I say "almost" because due to the PS3's lack of PS1/PS2 controller ports (and FireWire/IEEE 1394), that inherently rules out certain games that may depend on such peripherals. Most of those are light gun games, but with those, the bigger issue is how the light guns themselves are built with direct-view CRTs and raw, unprocessed analog video signals in mind.
> 
> Fortunately, USB peripherals are still supported; I can use my Hori Flightstick 2 without problems in Ace Combat 5, and I wouldn't be surprised if I could also use things like the Logitech Driving Force (Pro) or the EyeToy.


 
   
  You're so technical! lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love that about him. I learn a lot just reading his post. I'm not a technical person, so having someone like Nameless around is a blessing.

Chico, I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I love that about him. I learn a lot just reading his post. I'm not a technical person, so having someone like Nameless around is a blessing.
> Chico, I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.


 
   
  Same. Did you see what I posted earlier? So, indeed, it's PCM to DH, not PCM to DD to DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That may be the case for a receiver or soundcard. NOT dolby headphone amps, as they can only take compressed Dolby Digital signals.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That may be the case for a receiver or soundcard. NOT dolby headphone amps, as they can only take compressed Dolby Digital signals.


 
   
  Yup yup. So, I guess, in the end, that eliminates the Creative Recon3d for me. The HK receiver would work, but I suppose, essentially, they're both generic/average HRTF's, and mileage will vary ear to ear, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I do NOT think the Yuin G1A makes the Koss clip ons obsolete. It's more refined, but pretty damn hard to drive in comparison, and will want amping at all times. If you're moving about a lot with your clip-ons, the Yuins are not ideal unless you always have a portable amp with you.


 
   
   
  Ya.  If I got them they would be hooked to the E10 most of the time so that wouldn't be a problem.  I would also be too afraid to shove them in a back pack or anything like that given how fragile clip-ons can be.
   
  Ideally the sound would be slightly warmer and thicker than the Koss (thicker mids especially) and less grainy up top.  Also ideally, the soundstage would be the same or better, although give how it looks more closed I would realistically expect it to do the more closed = smaller soundstage tradeoff.  I would be OK with a little smaller soundstage for a better balanced sound, especially since they would be mainly used for TV/Movies.
   
  It looks suspiciously like the koss clip-ons though, and in more ways than just the clips.  Even the driver looks the same, down to the silver shininess (titanium?). 
   
  There has to be _some _connection between Yuin and Koss, and where they are getting there parts and drivers from...
   
  I can't tell any difference just looking at the driver itself...
   
  http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Head-Direct/Yuin/G1/2.html


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> LOL, malicious intent was one of the possibilities? I hate your mind. I really do, but then again, reading further, I love it. No, seriously, no need to help. I GET IT. I appreciate your efforts. All right then. You should get some rest. Mmmmk. I loved that movie, jerk. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. Hating you now, lol. Night.



Jerk was a great movie! I'm sure a lot us can identify with "I don't need you, or any of this! Except... This lamp. But that's all I need! ... and this chair, that's all I need..."
But seriously, I liked Inception too.


To everybody,
Merry Christmas and happy holidays!


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Ideally the sound would be slightly warmer and thicker than the Koss (thicker mids especially) and less grainy up top.  Also ideally, the soundstage would be the same or better, although give how it looks more closed I would realistically expect it to do the more closed = smaller soundstage tradeoff.  I would be OK with a little smaller soundstage for a better balanced sound, especially since they would be mainly used for TV/Movies.



Sounds like you're describing my PX100. I haven't heard the "II" model, but if only Sennheiser made a clip-on model, right?


----------



## sypius

Hey, what happened to the section of the guide where you listed the best headphones by fun, competitive and overall? Currently trying to decide on a headphone and usually looked at the guide for reference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's there, just under a spoiler tag...

Chicolom... They're actually pretty hard to A/B. I feel they need to have the same clips to truly A/B them, as you know the sound signature changes depending on the clip they use. If I use the same clips, I do feel the Yuins are a little richer in tone, but I can't be sure. It takes way too long to swap clips and compare quickly. I'm not sure if it's tonality warmer than the KSC35 overall. The tonality seems similar to the KSC35. The KSC35's bass is stronger giving it a darker signature, but due to the Yuin having less tizziness in the treble, it's smoother and fuller sounding. Hard to explain. 

Not sure about soundstage. I feel the Yuins have similar or better width. Not sure. I never felt the Koss clip ons were truly open. They have their holes, but covering my ears barely did anything to the sound. The only real change is when pushing them closer to the ears.


----------



## smellyfungus

searched thru this thread but couldn't find much for my issue.
 had a question on the labtec LVA7330 mic for anyone who has it.

 im having trouble with the mic picking up my voice unless the mic is literally touching my lips.
 when i do the mic test and talk loudly with the mic only a couple inches from my lips the indicator does not even light up. when the mic is on my lips then my friends can hear me just fine.

 i've already set the mic volume to max, is there anything else i'm missing to be able to use this mic in a more reasonable position?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You may have a very insensitive dud. 

Did you already mod it? I'd get a replacement if you didn't.

That's the problem with mics. Sometimes they're sensitive, sometimes they aren't. My Zalman wouldn't pick up a damn thing unless I screamed, but others say it does.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

anyone get the nuforce email with their first over ear headphones for $150 (visceral bass) tonally neutral and they are solid aluminum for a sturdy construction and good dampening qualities as they are a closed headphone.  Also i believe precision imaging and large soundstage was in there too.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

also had anyone seen the sony mdsr-ma900.  They use......wait for it.......70mm DRIVERS What! LOL   i've read reviews and most people prefer the Phps L1.
  looks pretty bad ass though


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

doctacosmos said:


> also had anyone seen the sony mdsr-ma900.  They use......wait for it.......70mm DRIVERS What! LOL   i've read reviews and most people prefer the Phps L1.
> looks pretty bad ass though




$192 on Amazon, and seem to be modeled after the F1's. Fully open design, huge angled drivers.

I'm VERY interested! Those look like they could be lethal for competitive gaming.

edit: 



> A 70mm angled driver should have an insane sound stage experience but the MA900 for some reason doesn't. It could be due to the very thin and form fitting driver housing cups, they are very thin and look slim on your head, id expect a giant sound stage but in this case you get a good sound stage, certainly not at all lacking.




Meh... never mind.


----------



## Laike

Merry Christmas to all!

I am not too experienced with the audiophile grade headphones (my experience mainly lies in a few mid 150-200$ range IEMs and the of gaming headphones I've bought and received to review through work over the years) though I like to think I can appreciate good sound. I wanted to share my experiences with the Skullcandy PLYR2 people were asking about earlier and ask a question on stand alone amps, but I'll get to that later. Pardon any weird spelling errors. I'm on my iPad typing this. 

The PLYR2 sound a lot like the SLYRs, with a huge catch. The USB sound card on the transmitter is terrible! The mids and treble gets really muddy and recessed. I thought it was the headset til I plugged the RCA cables into my Xbox and things improved substantially. I the thought hey I wonder what would happen if I plug it into my mix amp, so with a 7 year old old adapter that came with my Logitech speakers years ago, I plugged the RCA cables into my 2011 mix amp pro and wow. What a difference! They started sounding a lot like the SLYRs did when I had those plugged into the mix amp. So if you already own a mix amp and you're looking for a wireless set up and you have tiny ears like me, the PLYR2 is a pretty reasonable option if you are looking for a true no wis set up. 

Now, for my question! I recently purchased a Q701 and an e17 figuring I'd see how I liked the combo and go from there. I had a defective o2 recently that I returned to the seller and now I need another desktop amp to replace it because I use the chat function on my mix amp a lot. I liked what I heard from the o2 while it worked (the power circuit was installed incorrectly) Would it be worth my while to go back to the O2 amp or save some cash and buy an e09k since I aleady have the e17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Magni is more universal than the E9K, and will pair up better with low ohm headphones. The E9K is best left for headphones over 80ohm.

The Magni seems to be a lot like the O2 in sound too, from the impressions I've seen. I own the Magni, and it's fantastic. So is the E9K, but with that caveat of having too high an output impedance for low ohm headphones.


----------



## Laike

Hmm I'll have to take a look if Headphone Bar in Canada plans on carrying the Magni any time soon. The shipping from the US with duties and taxes makes them almost if not just as expensive as a local o2 amp made by Audio Poutine. I might be able to get away with the e90k though since I only plan on using the q701s with them. Although future proofing is always nice, looks like I'll stick to the o2 if Headphone Bar has no plans to carry the Magni. Thanks for your input


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> $192 on Amazon, and seem to be modeled after the F1's. Fully open design, huge angled drivers.
> I'm VERY interested! Those look like they could be lethal for competitive gaming.




In the review he posted on head fi, he said the sound stage was quite large, he even preferred them to the AD700. Perhaps worth a try...

-Erik


----------



## ruuku

smellyfungus said:


> searched thru this thread but couldn't find much for my issue.
> 
> had a question on the labtec LVA7330 mic for anyone who has it.
> 
> ...




Probably go with MLE's answer here, my LVA7330 is very sensitive. So much so that I got complaints from my party when it was too close. I have it farther away now, as I find the mic in my peripheral vision somewhat distracting. One thing to check for is to move the windscreen (black foam thing) up and make sure that the red dot (on the boom arm) is facing your head. The 7330 is a NC mike so it has 2 mics in it, one for ambient noise and one for voice.... maybe yours got turned around somehow. Highly unlikely, but definitely worth a shot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I spent a few hours on MW2 with the A50s. Definitely playable on the Pro setting or whatever they call it. That's supposed to be the one that sucks out the bass to allow detail whoring, but the A50 is so damn bassy at default, that it still packs a wallop. The other 2 settings are so incredibly muddy, I'd have to say that they are 100% useless. All details are mucked up by bass. A shame.

Still, with the only preset that is playable, I'll say the A50s deserve a 6.5 for competitive. They're good enough for competitive play, but still lacks a bit of detail, and the bass doesn't help. Because they are as expensive as they are though, I'm not holding back. For an extremely expensive headset to have the sound quality that the A50s have, it is quite a letdown. If I had to rate the other two presets... well, let's not go there.

So it works as a DAC/AMP on PC. No optical needed. The EQ and DH is disabled. Without any presets, and listening to music, it's obvious, the A50's bass is turned up to 11. Waaaay too much. I fail to understand how they can use these super bassy drivers on a gaming headset. It just doesn't make sense.

They actually sound pretty good for music off the PC UNTIL the bass hits.

I literally dopped the bass to -12 on my Winamp and it's still very bassy. Wow. That's the first time I've seen that, lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh lawd, I bent the Yuin clips, and they actually gave in a little bit. So now the drivers are closer to my ears, and I'm getting a richer sound.

The point where I bent took on a lighter color, so it looks like I won't be bending anymore, in fear of it snapping. There is no metal in the clip, and the plastic wasn't meant to bend...but still, I did it. LOL. Now I have the best in comfort and possible sound I can get from the Yuins. 

Did a quick A/B with the Yuins and KSC35. The Yuins do have a richer sound, and better mids. The KSC35 is more fatiguing, and thinner sounding.


----------



## calpis

How's the cabling on the Yuin? I bought like 5 pairs of the ksc75 when they went on clearance at radio shack a few years ago and the cable died on 4 of them at different points.I know I can resolder them but the lack of strain relief really bothers me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have faith in the cables. They're as flimsy as the 75/35's cable. My 35's cable is already pulled away from the housing...

I'd say these are worth getting recabled, once the cable goes bad.


----------



## HoukaiAmplifier

Fantastic thread.  Subbed. Answered everything I had in question.  Thanks man!


----------



## ronswanson

Because of the problems with the 2013 mixamp I may just have to order the wireless a30 bundle. Too bad they don't sell the 5.8 mixamp anymore individually


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Jerk was a great movie! I'm sure a lot us can identify with "I don't need you, or any of this! Except... This lamp. But that's all I need! ... and this chair, that's all I need..."
> But seriously, I liked Inception too.
> To everybody,
> Merry Christmas and happy holidays!


 
   
  LOL. I just want the lamp! There's a genie inside! Don't touch anything but tha lamp! I LOVED Inception. Thanks! Same to you and all!


----------



## mgdunaway

Long time lurker to this thread and thanks to everyone who has posted and to MLE for the awesome information. I quickly realized I was a complete noob when it came to headphones when I didn't even know what 'open-back' headphones were until I read through this thread. I have been a long time COD player (World at War), nothing competitive, just pub stomping and I have until recently thought that the 'big' headset companies where the best of the best. I have been rocking the PX-21's for awhile now and just recently started looking into upgrading. First off, I don't know if I just bought a good version on the PX-21's but the major hissing issue that MLE spoke about, I haven't been a victim of it. Don't know why. I started gaming on the PS3... worked like a charm, then switched 360 after getting pissed at the PS Network. Other than being held together by super glue and electrical tape, the stereo sound has been great. I recently (12/20/12) purchased the 2013 Mixamp after deciding I was gonna go for the Mixamp + PC 360 combo. Of course my Mixamp has had the major issue you've read about... the sound just... cutting out. After hours of switching out cables, I took to the knowledge of the people (this forum) and replaced the usb power cord with an old PS3 controller charger. I just got done with about a 3 hour session and didn't have one problem. Now, I'm not sure what firmware came on the Mixamp since I just bought it, but I have not updated the firmware yet. I've read that after the update some people have had problems with voice. That part I'm not sure of because my current setup is the Mixamp, Klipsch Reference One's (still trying to find a deal on a headphone/set), and my Kinect being used as my mic. I play on a 23" ASUS EVO monitor, so I sit close enough for the Kinect to pick up my voice... sounds like I'm in a tin box but hell, it works for now. Oh, the Mixamp + headphone is >>>>>>>> PX-21, but I do find is very bassy but I think that has a lot to do with the closed Klipsch headphone. Anyway, long enough first post... and to MLE, thank you again, just wish I had the budget to try as many phone's as you without my wife KILLING me. P.S. I have been looking at purchasing the AKG Q701's used from Amazon's Warehouse for $171 USD, anyone who has had any experience with the Amazon Warehouse... any input would be MUCH appreciated.  and to anyone who wants to play some Domination hit me up... dunaway1924


----------



## Razorslash43

What is your comparison between the pc360 and the pc333D(I believe that's it)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mgdunaway, Amazon warehouse is great. Easy to do returns if anything is amiss, no questions asked. That sounds like a great price for the Q701, though you definitely need an amp to get the most out of them. 

They are hard to drive, though for gaming purposes, you don't need to go all out. A decent desktop amp like the Magni should do the trick, though it will give the AKGs an analytical sound. I say the AKGs prefer warm amps.

For the love of our eyes, add some line breaks to your posts.


----------



## CFGamescape

Awesome post! I found this through LevelCap's video. Can't believe I didn't see this myself given that I have lurked these forums before.

In any case, I've been using the PC360's for a while now and am satisfied. However, I'm thinking of picking up some cans that I can dedicate to music, too, while also being used for gaming (better positioning than the 360's). 

I'm leaning towards the AKG K701's or the Q701's but thought I'd get your input. You clearly state to get the Q over the K but I'm really looking for a significant improvement in positioning if I use it for gaming. 

What would I notice more of an improvement in from the 360's if I went with the Q or the K? "Fun" factor or "competitive" factor? Based on your scoring, it seems that the bigger delta would be the "fun" factor if I went with the Q. However, how close are the 9.5 scores on competitive between the K and 360?

Does this make sense? 

I would consider the A700's if all that mattered was positioning but alas many components will be favored, including music.

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest, positional cues, aural god mode is accomplished by the Q701, K701, AD700, HD598, PC360, D7000. I dont think for gaming purposes any headphone you get will wow you over the PC360 in terms of competitive edge. The PC360 really is that fantastic in that regard. What those headphones do improve and wow with, is the sound quality as a whole. The Q701 is literally the next level above the PC360 in terms of sound quality, refinement, and richness.


----------



## CFGamescape

Thanks for you quick reply! So, for overall sound quality in mind, you would still pick the Q over the K?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. Q701 is richer and more pleasureable.

Bear in mind that I owned the old 7 bump K701. The newer K701 may actually be identical in sound to the Q701. I can't confirm or deny this, as this is constantly debated on Head-fi.


----------



## CFGamescape

mad lust envy said:


> Absolutely. Q701 is richer and more pleasureable.
> Bear in mind that I owned the old 7 bump K701. The newer K701 may actually be identical in sound to the Q701. I can't confirm or deny this, as this is constantly debated on Head-fi.




Thanks!


----------



## mgdunaway

Ummm, ya my bad on not including breaks. It looks pretty ridiculous. But ideally I don't want to include any more wires like another amp with the 701's.
   
  I've heard nothing but good things about the PC 360's so I may just go with those. Best Buy has had them as 'sold out online' for about 3 weeks now. I am hoping they will be back in stock soon.
   
  Due to 10" of snow dropped last night, no work today, I was able to get online again this morning and merk some Christmas noobs and my 2013 Mixamp is still working great with the PS3 cord.
   
  I know in recent posts you, MLE, wrote you were having problems with the audio cutting out also. Have you tried a different power cord? Any success?
   
  Another poster said something about the JVC RX900's as being excellent gaming headphones. Has anyone else tried them? Peaked my interest because of the price and the fact they are closed. Wife will appreciate closed.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

peronsaly, i found the hd598 to be not that great with positional ques.  There is some excess plastic in the back of the headphone around the grill that i felt was restricting imaging in the back and therefor compressed the imaging slightly to the front.  Also i felt the headphone had a blooming problem and was not that detailed.  This lack of detail was fine for mp3 files and gave it an all around fun and energetic sound.


----------



## fpsgamer

Wow, how i wish I could have found this comprehensive guide geared toward console gaming 2 years ago before i bought my overpriced A40's. Atleast I have one piece of the puzzle (mixamp); however, need your personal advise on the amp to run my new akg q701's with Mic for xbl chat. Mainly just fps gamer and use to watch blurays all when family is sleeping.

Your pic shows those cans with fiio e09k, but found recent post that you recommended magni. Also whichever one you think is best do I need the e17 or modi dac?

New to non plug-and-play console headsets and just want to get it right this time. Father of 3 and its hard to keep convincing the wife to allow me to buy expensive replacements for items I already own. 

Thank you


----------



## seb UK

Right! So I've set up my DT990s and the DSS2. I've been playing quite a bit of mass effect 3 and battlefield 3 to test them out. They are a big step up from my Sennheiser 25's however I'm not sure their quite optimised yet. The bass in battlefield 3 is a bit lacking (unless I turn on the bass boost on the DSS2) and the treble is a bit harsh. 
   
  On the other hand the bass in sound test videos on youtube is pretty nice. 
   
  I'm wondering if I need to burn these in for quite a while before they sound optimised? Or maybe it's the lack of an amp? The thing is, they definitely go loud enough, so I'm not sure it's the amp.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

fps gamer you won't need a dac like the e17 or modi unless you plan on listening to music too.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well my worries are mostly when adding voice chat, and not the Magni's ability to drive a headphone. The Magni should be fine for the vast majority. Just, dunno about driving headphones loud if you have a large tip towards voice chat on something like a Mixamp.


 
  I couldn't find if you had commented more on this, but after using the Magni now for a little while, did you find your above worry to be an issue, or can the Magni still drive headphones loud enough while mixing in voice chat via the Mixamp?  I don't play multiplayer with voice too often, but when I do, specifically on Red Dead Redemption, I find I have to crank the mix knob to about 3 o'clock to be able to hear my friend loud enough over the game audio.
   
  Also, I noticed in your amp section (the whole redesign looks great, btw!) that you mentioned the DT 990s can sound a bit harsh in the treble off the E9K.  I'm still planing on getting the DT 990 Pros and was originally going to get the E9K, but if the Magni will treat them better and not have an issue once I mix voice chat in, then I'll go with that instead.
   
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





seb uk said:


> Right! So I've set up my DT990s and the DSS2. I've been playing quite a bit of mass effect 3 and battlefield 3 to test them out. They are a big step up from my Sennheiser 25's however I'm not sure their quite optimised yet. The bass in battlefield 3 is a bit lacking (unless I turn on the bass boost on the DSS2) and the treble is a bit harsh.
> 
> On the other hand the bass in sound test videos on youtube is pretty nice.
> 
> I'm wondering if I need to burn these in for quite a while before they sound optimised? Or maybe it's the lack of an amp? The thing is, they definitely go loud enough, so I'm not sure it's the amp.


 
   
  It's been a while since I've played BF3 but iirc, you should check your in-game sound options and play around with them. I might be getting it confused with blops but it should have a couple different audio mixes to choose from. I think it was called "war tapes" or something.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Didnt know my return window was so long for the E17... guess its going back today... and Im ordering the Magni, lol.
> Who knows, I might even put the SA-31 and ODAC for sale, and getting that Modi, X1 or K702/65!
> As for the Skullcandy deal, the SLYR for $40 is ridiculous, and everyone looking for a good closed headset should jump on it. SERIOUSLY.


 
  let us know what you think of either the Magni or Modi. I have been beating my head against a wall trying to talk myself into waiting for the ODA after I saw these. $200 DAC/AMP done deal is so tempting.
   
  class AB though...hmmm


----------



## platzord

Hi guys,

 I've been reading this thread cause I'm looking to buy headphones or headset.
 I currently have a steelseries siberia v2, with the steelseries 7.1 surround usb soundcard, and I've been using them for a little more than 3 years now, but I have the need to replace them cause probably from all the time that I let them fall on the ground the sound recently has become somewhat distorted.

 I'd like if you guys could help me with picking new headphones, I have $80 to spend. 
  I normally use my headset for a long periods of time(sometimes up to 10hours or more), so I'd like a confortable headphones or headset and I do use them for playing games, listening to music, watching movies and talking with my friends on skype.

 The music genres that I listen to normally depend on the mood I am on xD , tho normally I listen to 80's, 70's songs, metalcore and also rock.
  The games I normally play are League of Legends and CS 1.6.

 I've seen some of the headphones in this thread but I'm still a bit confused so I'd appreciate some help!!

 Thanks in advance,
 platzord.


----------



## Laike

At 80 dollars I'd recommend the Skullcandy SLYRs if you don't have giant ears. They are not the most comfortable things but if you're willing to sacrifice cup size for it, they are a good deal at that price. I have Asian sized ears and I had no issue wearing them for hours on end as I found the inside of the ear cups hid a bit more space for ear lobes.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mgdunaway said:


> Another poster said something about the JVC RX900's as being excellent gaming headphones. Has anyone else tried them? Peaked my interest because of the price and the fact they are closed. Wife will appreciate closed.


 
   
   
  I've tried the RX900 and I wasn't a huge fan.  The imaging was't as good as some other headphones I've tried.  Also I believe they are semi-open.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Hello all and special thanks to *MLE*,
   
  As a long time lurker, I used this guide to purchase a pair of HD598 @ a year ago and have been happy w/ them.  But, upgraditis has hit me so I have some questions for a worthy successor if someone would be so kind as to offer some incite that I really have not found while trying to scour this thread.  I really want to keep that soundstage for competitive gaming but, increase the fun or bass for more enjoyable single player games/movie watching ($300-400 max but, if cheaper even better).
   
  I used to own AD700 which HD598 replaced and use them strictly for PS3 gaming (FPS, Action, RPG) and Bluray movies.  I also only use my Pioneer Elite receiver which has a phones surround mode (also own original DSS and CMOYBB which rarely gets used unless have to game w/out AVR in bedroom).  The Pioneer's virtual surround seems very good in comparison to DH on DSS.
   
  I have already purchased a few sets to demo and hopefully replace HD598 (DT990 premium, 250ohm, which I'm testing now & AKG Q701 yet to be delivered).
   
  The problem I am hearing is that the DT990 doesn't seem to have the increase in bass I was expecting in comparison to the HD598 for that extra oomph.  To my ears, it has very slight increase in sub-bass (ex: explosions and Jurassic Park) but, w/ recessed mids as are typically described.  It sounds just as clear and similarly loud as HD598 at same volume level so unsure what could be missing.  I have started extra burn-in using noise and sweeps (http://www.jlabaudio.com/burn.php) to try to improve them if that is a possibility.
   
*So the big ?, Is my Pioneer Elite receiver sufficient to power DT990 and Q701 (for best performance and bass) or will I notice an improvement going to O2 or Magni or even E9 added to the chain after AVR?? If it is known to improve I could possibly be willing to use one of the mentioned amps and DSS/Mixamp combo instead if the improvement is justified.*
   
  I appreciate all the help I can get!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> As a long time lurker, I used this guide to purchase a pair of HD598 @ a year ago and have been happy w/ them.  But, upgraditis has hit me so I have some questions for a worthy successor if someone would be so kind as to offer some incite that I really have not found while trying to scour this thread.  I really want to keep that soundstage for competitive gaming but, increase the fun or bass for more enjoyable single player games/movie watching ($300-400 max but, if cheaper even better).
> I used to own AD700 which HD598 replaced and use them strictly for PS3 gaming (FPS, Action, RPG) and Bluray movies.  I also only use my Pioneer Elite receiver which has a phones surround mode (also own original DSS and CMOYBB which rarely gets used unless have to game w/out AVR in bedroom).  The Pioneer's virtual surround seems very good in comparison to DH on DSS.
> I have already purchased a few sets to demo and hopefully replace HD598 (DT990 premium, 250ohm, which I'm testing now & AKG Q701 yet to be delivered).
> The problem I am hearing is that the DT990 doesn't seem to have the increase in bass I was expecting in comparison to the HD598 for that extra oomph.  To my ears, it has very slight increase in sub-bass (ex: explosions and Jurassic Park) but, w/ recessed mids as are typically described.  It sounds just as clear and similarly loud as HD598 at same volume level so unsure what could be missing.  I have started extra burn-in using noise and sweeps (http://www.jlabaudio.com/burn.php) to try to improve them if that is a possibility.
> *So the big ?, Is my Pioneer Elite receiver sufficient to power DT990 and Q701 (for best performance and bass) or will I notice an improvement going to O2 or Magni or even E9 added to the chain after AVR?? If it is known to improve I could possibly be willing to use one of the mentioned amps and DSS/Mixamp combo instead if the improvement is justified.*


 
  Usually when you plug your headphones into a receiver, the speaker amplifiers stop driving the speakers and switch over to driving the headphones.
  I would guess your receiver can easily drive 600-Ohm headphones, so 250-Ohm should be no problem.
  Is the PS3 connected to the Pioneer with optical or HDMI?
  I would think the Blu-ray movies would benefit from using HDMI, over optical.
  Hopefully burn in solves the bass problem.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Usually when you plug your headphones into a receiver, the speaker amplifiers stop driving the speakers and switch over to driving the headphones.
> I would guess your receiver can easily drive 600-Ohm headphones, so 250-Ohm should be no problem.
> Is the PS3 connected to the Pioneer with optical or HDMI?
> I would think the Blu-ray movies would benefit from using HDMI, over optical.
> Hopefully burn in solves the bass problem.


 
  I bitstream via HDMI only from PS3 (as well as HTPC) to Pioneer AVR so as to ensure best A/V experience possible. 
  Hmmm...good to know about the receiver driving 600ohm as I was skeptical and opted for DT990, 250ohm instead (I may swap them to compare now).
   
  Appreciate the response, PurpleAngel, and hopefully I am more satisfied after a few days of burn-in.
   
  So Pioneer AVR should power Q701 even easier then?  Curious if anyone else uses their receiver for gaming (I can't be the only one)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 600ohm has less bass than the 250ohm, but they're 98% the same.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Thanks to this thread my white Q701s arrived this morning. Because of all the cash I have spent on headphones this year I have only bought a fiio e09 to go with the akg's and my mixamp. First impressions are that they are more wider and clearer than my pc360s... They also seem  more "sterile" ( I cannot think of  a better word) than the pc360s. Although I was only using my mixamp because my e09 has not arrived.
   
  Tonight I will give them a proper go, before I leave them for five days straight of burning-in whilst I am in the uk visiting family and friends. Has anyone else noticed a change in these cans after a certain amount of hours burn-in? 
   
  Also, thanks to chicolom and mad lust envy for recommending the akg's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear you like them.... do you? Lol.

Although I absolutely do not believe in burn in at all, more the belief that your brain and ears adjust to the sound, as well as your physical and mental state of health (fatigue definitely alters sound), as well as expectation bias. 

People have stated that AKGs need like 300 hours of burn in, if you truly wanna believe in that sort of thing. I prefer to just use them instead of waiting for some magical change.

I'll go ahead and say to just leave them burning in for that week you're away, then enjoy them once you're back.


----------



## smellyfungus

glad I'm in the same camp as you on burn in. with my normal use that burn in time would take me four months. by then id think most people would forget how they sounded "originally". to each their own I suppose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just the expecation and hopes that it sounds better is enough to trick your brain into believing it's true. That's why I skip the nonsense and enjoy my headphones from day one. Drivers do change with more use (Tyll on Innerfidelity showcased the changes for the K701 or K702m, and proved that it's constant, random, sporadic, and ultimately subtle). 

How people can believe these changes are always positive just make me laugh inside. If the bass is too prominent, burn in tightens it. If there is a lack of bass, burn in adds bass. If treble is too prominent, burn in reduces it. If treble is too smooth, burn in adds treble etc. It's a joke. It either adds or takes away whatever the person desires from the burn in itself. :rolleyes:

The only time a driver changed where I noticed was with my first M50s. They had a metallic zing to the treble which went away in less than an hour. It was instant. That was a freak occurence, and not some legitimate case of 'burn in'. That or some defective driver that corrected itself as soon as I sent a signal to it.


----------



## Brown Intruder

I only had one quick game of halo with them... They are definately clearer than the 360s!
   
  Opinions differ on "burn-in" but I will do like you say and leave them playing. 
   
  A quick question, is the e09 an ok amp to start with in your opinion? I'll look at something more expensive next year perhaps. Or hopefully someone will release a real good quality mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the E09K (aka E9K). It's very clean sounding,. and I could swear it's a smidge better than the old E9, though they should be identical.

I'd say the Magni is a better choice for the Q701. It has more power at the AKG's impedance level (or any level really), and a lower output impedance for less distortion. The AKGs aren't hampered by impedance mismatches (unlike typical dynamic headphones), but the Magni is still technically superior.

Unless you need a line out and pre-amp out, I'd go with the Magni over the Fiio, though they are comparable. The Fiio is slightly more musical, and just a smidge harsher in the treble, but it's just a different apple from the same tree. Both are relatively neutral and clean sounding. I honestly wouldn't expect highly noticeable changes from varying solid state amps, unless they clearly specify as being warm or bright, etc. If you want bigger than subtle changes, go with tube amps. I prefer the simplicity and cleanliness of solid state amps.

I feel like getting one of these, because it's so cheap, lol. I read they don't have Fiio E9 power, so not sure how good it is power-wise. Never seen any actual specs at different impedences.


http://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Audio-Multi-Hybrid-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00ADR2DTG/ref=sr_1_26?ie=UTF8&qid=1356615220&sr=8-26&keywords=headphone+tube+amp


----------



## Brown Intruder

Thanks MLE. Really, I only want something to give me enough juice to drive the akg's and a mic at the same time.
   
  Anyway, the e09 is already paid for...just waiting for amazon. Thanks for all your advice, I am sure that it must get boring answering the same questions day in day out!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol it's okay. That's what I'm here for. Don't worry. I think the E09K is a great amp, and it will suit your needs just fine. I'm actually sad I don't have it anymore. I was very impressed with it. My OLD E9 had a noisy volume knob (when adjusting volume), as well as a faulty 3.5mm input (not that anyone should use it anyways, as it had an atrociously high 43ohm output impedance). The E9K I had was just perfect. Very black background, and pure, energetic sound.

http://www.amazon.com/Little-Dot-standard-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00A2QM5O6/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&qid=1356615983&sr=8-47&keywords=headphone+tube+amp

Wonder how the Little Dot I+ sounds. Power specs seem pretty similar to the E9K, but a tube hybrid. $88 too. $109 on their main website.


----------



## mgdunaway

Well I have decided to go uber budget and purchase the Skullcandy Slyr. The promo code of REDBULL50 is still valid so if I can just get a decent headSET to pair with my mixamp for the time being I will consider it Great Success for $40. I'll be sure to post my thoughts after some use with BLOPS 2. Cheers


----------



## Brown Intruder

Ok so I have used the q701s a bit more now with just a mixamp and yep it was definately a massive improvemnt over the pc360s. Great sound stage, directionality and the clarity is amazing. Just in halo I have been noticing things that I have never heard before. 
   
  Well pleased with them


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mgdunaway said:


> Well I have decided to go uber budget and purchase the Skullcandy Slyr. The promo code of REDBULL50 is still valid so if I can just get a decent headSET to pair with my mixamp for the time being I will consider it Great Success for $40. I'll be sure to post my thoughts after some use with BLOPS 2. Cheers


 
   
  If you haven't already purchased them, may I suggest grabbing the PLYR 2's instead. At only $25 more with the 50% discount, they are a steal! If you already purchased the SLYR's don't fear, they will do fine.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Heretic817

MLE or Chico or anyone else really -
   
  Would you say that the Q701 have any noticeable improvement with the addition of an amp? I am not talking about an amp making the "sound better" per se. From an engineering perspective I believe if you are listening to an amp it's a design flaw. (although if that's your thing rock on) My concern comes from the fact that my volume knob on either the Mix amp or the PC is alarmingly close to full tilt. So, I would imagine that if I could measure it I would find some clipping at the signal peaks. Subjectively speaking do you think you noticed any improvement beyond just volume?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 is basically the most amp dependent headphone outside of the HE-4 that I've used. It improves in dynamics, fullness, and refinement. Yes, it not only needs an amp, it deserves an amp. It behaves like a 600ohm headphone.


----------



## Vader2k

Hey MLE, I had a question regarding mixing voice chat in from the Mixamp while using the Magni. Before you received the Magni you said:
   


mad lust envy said:


> Well my worries are mostly when adding voice chat, and not the Magni's ability to drive a headphone. The Magni should be fine for the vast majority. Just, dunno about driving headphones loud if you have a large tip towards voice chat on something like a Mixamp.


 
   
  I couldn't find if you had commented more on this, but after using the Magni now for a little while, did you find your above worry to be an issue, or can the Magni still drive headphones loud enough while mixing in voice chat via the Mixamp?  I don't play multiplayer with voice too often, but when I do, specifically on Red Dead Redemption, I find I have to crank the mix knob to about 3 o'clock to be able to hear my friend loud enough over the game audio.
   
  Also, I noticed in your amp section (the whole redesign looks great, btw!) that you mentioned the DT 990s can sound a bit harsh in the treble off the E9K.  I'm still planing on getting the DT 990 Pros and was originally going to get the E9K, but if the Magni will treat them better and not have an issue once I mix voice chat in, then I'll go with that instead.
   
  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 is basically the most amp dependent headphone outside of the HE-4 that I've used. It improves in dynamics, fullness, and refinement. Yes, it not only needs an amp, it deserves an amp. It behaves like a 600ohm headphone.


 
  Thank you for the quick reply! So, I take it that on a budget you would point me at the Schiit Magni. I seriously can't wait for the ODA anymore. I got the itch.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, the Magni has quite a lot of play on the volume knob.

Really, the ONLY reason I recommend the E9K over the Magni is when you need a line out or pre-amp out (like connecting powered speakers, like desktop speakers, or attaching another amp, etc). The Magni only has one RCA input, and that's it. That is gonna be only for your DAC, or your Mixamp, etc. You will have to constantly swap cables if using more than one source.

With the E9K, if you use the E07K or E17 as a DAC, you can dock them, leaving the RCA input free for your Mixamp, etc. Power and technical superiority of the Magni or extra versatility and functionality of the E9K.

If I only had the Magni, I'd be a little irked by the lack of inputs, but I use my SA-31 for most things which has 5 RCA inputs, lol.

You could also get an RCA switcher and hook that up to the Magni...though I'd be wary of cheap ones, and potential loss of SQ.

http://www.amazon.com/RECOTON-VS1002-Switcher-2-Inputs-1-Output/dp/B001L9OBZO/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&qid=1356627457&sr=8-27&keywords=rca+switcher

Seems to be solid for the price. Tempted on getting it to have the Magni as my permanent Mixamp and Modi switcher.

Assuming the contacts are simple bridges, there shouldn't be a loss of SQ.


----------



## Vader2k

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I also want switcher so I can A/B the ODAC/Modi on the Magni, as well as faster than the SA-31's input swtich which takes a few seconds.


----------



## Brown Intruder

back again..lol  am I mistaken or is the only input the 3.5mm line in? Because the RCA says line out next to it? I have just cancelled my amazon order (even though 5 mins after I cancelled the seller changed it to dispatched). 
   
  Is that really the case?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's the E9, not the E9K which has an RCA input instead of the 3.5mm input (line in). They are essentially the same thing. The only difference is that you'd need a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable from the Mixamp to the E9, and a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the Mixamp to the E9K/Magni. 3.5mm line in and RCA in are the same thing. The difference is the channels are joined on the 3.5mm cable first for the E9, and the channels are joined on the E9K/Magni inside the amp itself. Shouldn't be any difference due to the input.

Also the Pre-amp out is a 3.5mm on the E9, and an RCA on the E9K. Same thing, just a different cable needed. I prefer RCA because the cables and inputs are more reliable, less prone to breaking. 3.5mm inputs tend to mess up a lot more than RCA inputs.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, I also want switcher so I can A/B the ODAC/Modi on the Magni, as well as faster than the SA-31's input swtich which takes a few seconds.


 
  doh! - edit


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





brown intruder said:


> Thanks to this thread my white Q701s arrived this morning.  First impressions are that they are more wider and clearer than my pc360s... They also seem  more "sterile" ( I cannot think of  a better word) than the pc360s. Although I was only using my mixamp because my e09 has not arrived.
> 
> Also, thanks to chicolom and mad lust envy for recommending the akg's


 
   
  To me, the PC360s are the more "sterile" sounding, and the AKGs are more full and musical. 
   
  I'm glad you enjoy them though.
   
   
  Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> MLE or Chico or anyone else really -
> 
> Would you say that the Q701 have any noticeable improvement with the addition of an amp? I am not talking about an amp making the "sound better" per se.
> 
> Subjectively speaking do you think you noticed any improvement beyond just volume?


 
   
   
  For music they absolutely deserve a decent desktop amp (with a DAC and good files first, of course), and there is a noticeable improvement in the dynamic range and the size of the soundstage (and the amount of "air" and separation between objects).  With a weaker amp they just overall sound more compressed, muddier, and smaller.
   
  For console gaming, the improvement is less obvious as the source (dolby digital from consoles) is a more compressed to begin with, plus double amping the mixamp blah blah blah.  They still improve some though.
   
   
  Again, for _PC use and music_ you're NOT getting the full potential of the AKGs _unless _your using them with a decent DAC and desktop amp. 
   
  I haven't used them for PC gaming or with any Dolby Headphone soundcards or anything, so I can't comment on that.


----------



## DCRussian

So I ordered the Q701 headphones yesterday based on the reviews of them in this thread (and elsewhere) and eagerly awaiting their arrival.
   
  Now I'm looking around for a good DAC/Amp combo primarily for desktop gaming and music. Admittedly, it seems that I should have ordered the amp/dac first, but no biggie.
  I currently use a Razer Barracuda AC-1 sound card (a quick overview of the specs here) and I've never used it with headphones before (pretty much completely new to headphone gaming) so I'm not sure if I need a DAC or not. Would there be any advantage to getting a DAC for my current setup? If so, which one would be best ~$100?
   
  I see the E9k/Magni and E17/Modi are popular options and looks like lately the Magni has been recommended more for the Q701.
   
  I'm still kind of confused about the Astro Mixamp though. If one was to buy, for example, the M&M stack, would the Mixamp bring anything useful to the table or is it only useful when you don't have a DAC/Amp already? Also, if I were to get a mic, would there be any any advantage to hooking it up to something other than the mic port of the sound card?
   
  Thanks a lot for the great thread, there's an incredible amount of information here for those new to the headphone scene, especially in terms of gaming.


----------



## Heretic817

LOL - "plus double amping the mixamp blah blah blah"
   
Yeah, I know. The Mixamp is sort of a crumby source but for console function at the price point I don't think you can do any better. 
   
All my MP3's were either made into MP3 from CD to highest quality that WMP allows OR downloaded through Amazon. (Don't slap me) So, I don't think I have the best quality files to begin with. Forgive my ignorance but I am a gamer first and foremost. Love of music is secondary really. I am just trying to get good HD sound to go with the good HD graphics without wrecking my wallet. 
   
To that end I think:
   
PS3>Astro Mixamp>Schiit Magni>Q701's
   
PC>SB Titanium HD>Schiit Magni>Q701's
   
Perhaps later I will add the Modi to the PC and start thinking about FLAC and all that. Though I have long had my heart set on ODAC/ODA but the wait is still a bit of a mystery. I also want a more "fun" set of cans to pair with the Q701 for more bass heavy music (Rap/Hip Hop/Jungle/DnB....) All this later though.
   
But given my stated goal does it sound like I have my head screwed on straight?
   
P.S. this is the best thread of all time. So glad you guys helped me find the Q701's


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





dcrussian said:


> So I ordered the Q701 headphones yesterday based on the reviews of them in this thread (and elsewhere) and eagerly awaiting their arrival.
> 
> Now I'm looking around for a good DAC/Amp combo primarily for desktop gaming and music. Admittedly, it seems that I should have ordered the amp/dac first, but no biggie.
> I currently use a Razer Barracuda AC-1 sound card (a quick overview of the specs here) and I've never used it with headphones before (pretty much completely new to headphone gaming) so I'm not sure if I need a DAC or not. Would there be any advantage to getting a DAC for my current setup? If so, which one would be best ~$100?
> ...


 
  The best reason to get the Mixamp is for Dolby Headphone gaming on consoles. I love my Mixamp and it started my whole quest for better gaming with headphones. The Mixamp itself is a DAC/Amp so for console gaming the Modi becomes useless when using the Mixamp. The Amp on the Mixamp does drive the Q701 to acceptable levels WITHOUT voice chat mixed in. Turn up voice and the volume on the Q701 takes a dive off a cliff but would be just fine with any consumer grade 32 ohm headphone. Though if you look up ^ both MLE and Chico seem to be in agreement that the Q701 needs a good amp to be it's best. It's the same pickle I am in with the Q701.
   
  However, a quality DAC like Modi or ODAC for music listening on the PC may be worthwhile over a sound card DAC provided you are using quality files as Chico pointed out.
   
  I myself have the Mixamp for PS3 and am just trying to find a good sound card with a decent on board DAC for PC as my ears are not as discerning as much of this community. Though many will tell you that just having your DAC (USB) and Amp outside of your PC chassis (noisy environment) is the way to go. Of course you can't swing a cat around here without hitting ten people who say you need a $10,000 DAC, $10,000 Amp, and $10,000 Headphone or you might as well be dead. LOL.
   
  I can tell you this. After I picked up the Astro Mixamp and the Razer Carcharias everything changed. Dolby Headphone with open back cans spoiled me. Gone forever are the days of plugging in $25 Sony headphones into the jack on my desktop speakers. My god the years I lost to crappy game audio.


----------



## DCRussian

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> The best reason to get the Mixamp is for Dolby Headphone gaming on consoles. I love my Mixamp and it started my whole quest for better gaming with headphones. The Mixamp itself is a DAC/Amp so for console gaming the Modi becomes useless when using the Mixamp. The Amp on the Mixamp does drive the Q701 to acceptable levels WITHOUT voice chat mixed in. Turn up voice and the volume on the Q701 takes a dive off a cliff but would be just fine with any consumer grade 32 ohm headphone. Though if you look up ^ both MLE and Chico seem to be in agreement that the Q701 needs a good amp to be it's best. It's the same pickle I am in with the Q701.
> 
> However, a quality DAC like Modi or ODAC for music listening on the PC may be worthwhile over a sound card DAC provided you are using quality files as Chico pointed out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks a lot for the response! Yeah I've never really gamed with headphones, and the only time I really tried to was with a friend's Astro A40 and the Mixamp a couple of years ago, which was quite a revelation for console gaming for me. I've also never listened to open headphones personally, so I'm very exited, to say the least, to start using this setup.
   
  I've been using some cheap Radio Shack headphones (an older version of these I think) through the 3.5mm out on the Logitech Z-5500s (a sin around here, I know) so I'm expecting this to be quite a big upgrade.


----------



## Heretic817

Well I hope you like them. They are clearly quality. Never thought I would pay $250 for a headphone but as soon as you take them out of the box you can tell they are well built. 
   
  My old X-Fi extreme gamer card clearly needs help driving them. I turn the volume to full and it gets about to the volume I want but that means there is almost certainly some clipping, distortion and what not. It's obvious to me that they are in a bit of a struggle to be driven correctly but they still sound good so I have high hopes. Then there is the voice chat problem with the Mixamp. All this adds up the conclusion that I clearly need an amp for them. Chico and MLE told me that ahead of time and there is no shortage others as well. So, in short I knew what I was getting into in terms of needing an amp but I am on a mission.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, my mixamp just arrived and I'm disappointed with the quality of the cables provided. They look (for lack of a better word) flimsy and low quality. I think I will buy replacement cables. With that said, upon further discussion I'm probably going to keep the mixamp, at least for the time being. I'm not going to buy the Wii U anytime soon so I shouldn't worry too much about a solution for it yet. Besides, with at least a year of usage, I figure this amp will have probably amortized by the time I buy a Wii U.
   
  The mics I bought from dx.com should be arriving next week. Now I just need a pair of headphones, lol.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Well, my mixamp just arrived and I'm disappointed with the quality of the cables provided. They look (for lack of a better word) flimsy and low quality. I think I will buy replacement cables. With that said, upon further discussion I'm probably going to keep the mixamp, at least for the time being. I'm not going to buy the Wii U anytime soon so I shouldn't worry too much about a solution for it yet. Besides, with at least a year of usage, I figure this amp will have probably amortized by the time I buy a Wii U.
> 
> The mics I bought from dx.com should be arriving next week. Now I just need a pair of headphones, lol.


 
  Mine is an old wired Mixamp. The 3.5 to 3.5 input cable I thought was nice and felt good. I bought my own decent TosLink as it did not come with one. I did wear out the Y splitter cable and had to get another I guess it went in about 18 mo. I have to admit though, for $130, you get Digital or RCA in, Dolby Headphone, voice chat mixer, voice chat chaining, aux input, rechargeable battery for portable, USB charge, multi-platform support, headphone amp out. It's maybe not the highest quality kit from top to bottom but for that price it's fairly impressive if you look at it in that light. It's damn tough to beat. IMO


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

That is true Heretic. By the way, which y-splitter did you end up buying? I'm probably going to buy another one, that and a usb-A to mini-b to charge. I could use the PS3 one but there might come a time where I may need to charge the controller while still playing with the mixamp.


----------



## seb UK

Hi guys...quick question. If I get an E9 amp for my DT990's (running off DSS2 at the mo) - will it improve the sound quality or just make it louder? thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





seb uk said:


> Hi guys...quick question. If I get an E9 amp for my DT990's (running off DSS2 at the mo) - will it improve the sound quality or just make it louder? thanks


 
  I would guess(?) it would improve sound quality.
  But have no experience with the DSS2.


----------



## kellte2

seb uk said:


> Hi guys...quick question. If I get an E9 amp for my DT990's (running off DSS2 at the mo) - will it improve the sound quality or just make it louder? thanks




Depends on which version you have. I had the DSS2 driving the 32 ohm version of the 990, but the sound did seem to fill out a little after I bought the e09k. Anything above the 32ohm 990 needs an amp more powerful than the DSS2 to properly drive the cans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually, the 32ohm needs an amp more than the 250ohm. They get loud enough, sure, but they improve with amping more than the 250ohm. The 32ohm Beyers were a mistake, as they sound poor without a quality amp compared to when you amp them.

Keep in mind, just because they improve more, doesn't mean they sound better than the 250ohm. Just, the 250ohm sounds pretty refined even with less than adequate amping, though a lot lower in volume than the 32ohm.

This is why it is always said that volume does not equal being properly driven. The HE-4 got ear shattering loud off the E9, but was so weak sounding. Just one example.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> That is true Heretic. By the way, which y-splitter did you end up buying? I'm probably going to buy another one, that and a usb-A to mini-b to charge. I could use the PS3 one but there might come a time where I may need to charge the controller while still playing with the mixamp.


 

 Sorry. I meant the Y splitter that lets you use non-Astro headphones. Not sure if it has changed since but the 3.5 mm output on my Mix amp takes a Astro 4 segment (left, right, voice, ground). So, the splitter separates it into two plugs. One for headphone and one for mic.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Actually, the 32ohm needs an amp more than the 250ohm. They get loud enough, sure, but they improve with amping more than the 250ohm. The 32ohm Beyers were a mistake, as they sound poor without a quality amp compared to when you amp them.
> Keep in mind, just because they improve more, doesn't mean they sound better than the 250ohm. Just, the 250ohm sounds pretty refined even with less than adequate amping, though a lot lower in volume than the 32ohm.
> This is why it is always said that volume does not equal being properly driven. The HE-4 got ear shattering loud off the E9, but was so weak sounding. Just one example.


 

 I try to keep an open mind about amping. While I do not like to get into the "sound" of an amp talk..... I will say that I have first hand experience with how complex an issue Impedance can be. Speaking as a person who has spent a lot of time with a spectrum analyzer and sweeping coils and such. They may measure 32 ohms at 1 KHZ, but that is far from the whole story across the rest of the spectrum. Then try sweeping a coil through an analyzer and view it in a Smith Chart. That can tell an interesting story.  The audible range is a pretty narrow band but just look at any frequency response chart of a headphone. You can get some interesting peaks and valleys. So I can see why making sure your amp is able to deliver adequate power at any given frequency could actually improve the sound.
   
  I'm just saying I know this is all subjective and what not but I can think of some valid technical reasons to lend credence to the idea that some "low impedance" headphones may require a decent amp while another may not. 
   
  Anyway I ramble, sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Heretic817* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I am just trying to get good HD sound to go with the good HD graphics without wrecking my wallet.
> ...


 
   
   
  "HD sound" ?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Apart from that, the setup sounds fine.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> Depends on which version you have. I had the DSS2 driving the 32 ohm version of the 990, but the sound did seem to fill out a little after I bought the e09k. Anything above the 32ohm 990 needs an amp more powerful than the DSS2 to properly drive the cans.


 
  Thanks for the replies guys. So it seems the quality will improve if I amp them. It's pretty good now, but being a perfectionist I will probably get an amp when my wallet is feeling a little fatter 
   
  What did you think of the DSS2 by the way? At first I was pretty unimpressed. The surround sound was there, but it was weak. Definitely weak compared to my old logitech actual 5.1 setup. 
   
  However over the course of some (too many) hours playing BF3, I am much more convinced that virtual surround sound works. When I stopped concentrating on whether the surround sound was 'working' and just started playing the game, I was often able to hear enemies coming around corners. If a helicopter was flying around I'd be able to swivel around on focus on it by instinct and get pretty much the spot it was hovering. Ditto with tanks on the ground. This is very cool!
   
  I wonder if it takes a while for your brain to be 'tricked' into accepting the virtual surround sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Although I have no idea how the DSS2 sounds compared to Dolby Headphone devices, part of how it works is to not TRY so hard to judge the surround sound, and just play a game. The surround cues will come to you. I had that same problem with CoD4 when I first got into this. I was so unimpressed, I left the Mixamp gathering dust for months. Later when I had a need for it, I used it not expecting much, but being completely blown away.

I'm willing to bet a lot of people who don't like it, sit there and try to make surround effects happen. If they just play a game, they'll realize that it works best when you're not TRYING to produce the effects.

I'm gonna get started on my A50 review today. HOPEFULLY, it will be done.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> "HD sound" ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  LOL - yes I jest. Sound is analog. 
   
  I mean getting a more clear and refined sound from my games to my ears.
  Something that plugging $20 Sony Headphones into my desktop speaker jack from X-fi Extreme Gamer has been failing to give me all these years. 
  Still the Astro is a bit of a weak link in the PS3 setup for SQ but what are you gonna do?


----------



## Brown Intruder

Ok I played some more with Q701s last night... My use of the "sterile" sounding yesterday was indeed a bad choice. They are pretty damn good! And that is running with just the mixamp. It was difficult to take them off last night lol
   
  I am now just awaiting an e9k after cancelling the e9 (I aint splashing out too much on an amp just yet), and I am going to order a modmic today if possible. The difference between these and the pc360s is big. I am most definately not an audiophile, but they blow em out of the water. Once the modmic arrives, the senns are going on ebay.
   
  Thanks again for recommending them. They pretty damn good


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear it. I've been raving about the AKGs since day 1, and I don't know of any headphone short of the HD800 that will take them off their throne as being the best competitive-oriented all-rounder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> *Astro A50 (*wireless headset*)*
> http://www.astrogaming.com/a50-wireless-system
> 
> 
> ...




Frankly, I need to do more testing for the mids and soundstage (as well as some clean up, corrections, etc), but overall, my opinion will remain relatively the same. It's a passable headset, overpriced when taking sound quality as the most important factor, and ultimately outclassed by pretty much all the good headsets I have reviewed.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Glad to hear it. I've been raving about the AKGs since day 1, and I don't know of any headphone short of the HD800 that will take them off their throne as being the best competitive-oriented all-rounder.


 
   
  I have a hunch for a possible contender, but then there's the whole amplification issue that's keeping me from loaning these out to you as a review set, not to mention availability for the vintage sets and the sheer price tag on the current ones (and even the discontinued vintage sets, to a lesser extent).
   
  It would be so much easier if you just had an integrated receiver or speaker amp lying around for this so I don't have to spend the big bucks on an electrostatic amp and send that over too...
   
  In other unrelated news, I decided to fire up a bit of Battlefield: Bad Company singleplayer on the PS3. (I got it bundled with the PS3, along with a few other games.)
   
  -Wait a minute...when the hell did pinpointing the direction of explosive sounds become this easy in a Frostbite engine game? Did they completely screw up the positional audio mixing only with Bad Company 2 onward or something? MLE, have you ever played Bad Company 1, or just BF:BC2 and BF3?
   
  -The control scheme is giving me nasty muscle memory issues, coming from other console FPSs. I keep hitting Triangle instead of Circle to enter and exit vehicles (a habit from GTA and Saints Row), which means I'm often swinging the knife or changing seats instead, and crouch is on R3 instead of L3 (Halo, GTA) or Circle (Call of Duty). On top of that, the use of L1 to accelerate and L2 to brake/reverse in ground vehicles is a rather peculiar choice, and one for which DICE didn't bother implementing pressure sensitivity (not that it matters much for controlling ground vehicles well in a Battlefield game, where digital keyboard inputs work pretty well).
   
  Why don't they ever think of allowing fully-remappable controls like most PC games have as a rule? Just look at the TimeSplitters series; 2 had fully-remappable controls, and Future Perfect was almost fully-remappable short of the D-Pad functions. For that matter, just let me use a USB keyboard and mouse on the consoles. (Bad Company 1 is one of the few Battlefield titles to not have a PC version, the others being Modern Combat and 1943.)


----------



## mgdunaway

Hey MLE, Is there a reason why you have not reviewed the Razer Carcharias? Paired with the Mixamp of course since they aren't powered. I have read that for the price, they are pretty damn good. Bang for the buck, they may be the best bet if I want to try some open back cans. If anyone else has used them, would appreciate any input!


----------



## roguegeek

Great post and great discussion. I'm finding a lot of useful stuff here. A couple of quick questions. I'm going to be ditching my Logitech G35 for something that is going to give me a lot better directional audio. Narrowed my two choices down to either the Audio-Technica AD700 with external mic or the Sennheiser PC360. The guide seems to be written for console gamers, but I'd like to know what audio card you guys would recommend for a PC. I'm hearing good things about the Asus Xonar cards, but there's so many versions. Thoughts?


----------



## ruuku

Check out http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio Nameless seems to be the go to guy for PC audio questions, Evshrug and Purple Angel are also reliable resources, maybe they can chime in on this one


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Great post and great discussion. I'm finding a lot of useful stuff here. A couple of quick questions. I'm going to be ditching my Logitech G35 for something that is going to give me a lot better directional audio. Narrowed my two choices down to either the Audio-Technica AD700 with external mic or the Sennheiser PC360. The guide seems to be written for console gamers, but I'd like to know what audio card you guys would recommend for a PC. I'm hearing good things about the Asus Xonar cards, but there's so many versions. Thoughts?


 
   
  I see you didn't ask this in my own PC gaming audio thread, which ruuku has conveniently linked above. Still, I'll answer here.
   
  The Xonar cards and other C-Media chipset offerings like from HT Omega are good choices, so long as you've made sure the card in question has Dolby Headphone.
   
  I just place higher priority on X-Fi-based cards since I still play a fair share of older games that relied on hardware sound acceleration from specific sound card DSPs to sound their best, for which X-Fi cards have the best compatibility. That's why I usually recommend the X-Fi Titanium HD by default.


----------



## DARKFiB3R

Great post/thread. Signed up just to say thanks (though I may as well ask a question or two while I'm at it) 
   
  I've had this pair of Sennheiser HDR 140 wireless headphones for years. And I'm wondering how I can use them for gaming+chat on xbox live. My current (ridiculous) setup is as follows...
   
  Xbox360 RCA out > RCA to 3.5mm > Tivoli iPAL (AUX in) > Tivoli iPAL (headphone out) > Sennheiser HDR 140 wireless base station
   
  Xbox360 pad > official ms wired headset/mic > my head > HDR 140 cans
   
  Sticking a chopped up, official ms wired headset/mic under one of the ears, isn't much fun :/

 I'm liking the idea of these "Virtual Surround Devices", and it sounds like putting one of those in the picture, would achieve what I want, but is there a more basic solution, just to get me started? I have no problem breaking out the soldering iron in order to modify/integrate an external mic.

 Also wondering if these cans are even suited for this application.
   
  Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I drew this up for you guys.  It's how i plan on setting up my next setup. Got tired of reading about coloration of amplifiers, slew rates, Signal to noise ratio's, damping factor, THD, load and impedance matching.  Decided i'd just go 2 gauge straight from the telephone pole, use electrical tape to bind the rca's from my dac to give me my signal and then straight to my headphones.  Didn't include the mixamp because i didn't know how to integrate all that electricity and not hurt the other people in my game while using DH. 
   
   
   
  I wonder when they will stop worrying about the important stuff in electric cars like specifications and start adding different electronics to somehow change the pure electricity into "different electricity" to make the sound of the car more warm or smooth.


----------



## Sleinzel

Thanks for this awesome thread.
   
  I need some help on deciding which headphones I would like to buy.
   
  Me and some mates are starting to play CS:GO a little bit more serious and I'm looking for a new Headset. I have been using a Creative Fatal1ty Headset for years, and it surved its purpose well. But I'm looking for an upgrade.
   
  The Headphones I've been looking at are these:
   
   
  - Sennheisser HD598
  - Beyerdynamics DT 880
   
   
  Would a Fiio E09K with E7/E17 as a DAC/AMP Combo be enough to drive the DT 880 600 ohm version, or should I just go with a Gamer Soundcard for DAC (and maybe a desktop amp)? I got an Ipod video, so having a portable AMP (like the E7 or E17) would be a nice thing.
   
  I looked up the HD598 Specs, and it seems, it doesn't need amping. Am I right?
   
  My budget is 600$
   
  Thanks for your advice guys.


----------



## Moby1

Hey mad lust, would the he400 be fine with a mic out of the mixamp? Or is a amp a must


----------



## TMRaven

it's fine without another amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not only does it need the power of another amp to help drive the volume when chat is added, but the HE400 lacks in positional cues and depth when using the Mixamp alone. I originally reviewed the HE400 off just the Mixamp. It was a mistake. It needs an amp.


----------



## Proxymanity

Wait a minute there MadLustEnvy, SKULLCANDY gave you a free pair of $300 A50 to test and review on here? Someone's getting famous


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They also sent me the A40+Mixamp 2013, which will fare quite a bit better than the A50s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sleinzel said:


> Thanks for this awesome thread.
> 
> I need some help on deciding which headphones I would like to buy.
> 
> ...




The HD598 would be driven quite well by the E17 alone, with the exception of some impedance spikes. The DT880/600 would be driven well by the E9K but not to it's fullest potential. The Magni would be a better choice for 600ohm headphones.





mgdunaway said:


> Hey MLE, Is there a reason why you have not reviewed the Razer Carcharias? Paired with the Mixamp of course since they aren't powered. I have read that for the price, they are pretty damn good. Bang for the buck, they may be the best bet if I want to try some open back cans. If anyone else has used them, would appreciate any input!




Unfortunately, I haven't. Can't say I have any opinion either way, though I would assume the Onza would be better, though for some strange reason, it doesn't have a mic.



darkfib3r said:


> Great post/thread. Signed up just to say thanks (though I may as well ask a question or two while I'm at it)
> 
> I've had this pair of Sennheiser HDR 140 wireless headphones for years. And I'm wondering how I can use them for gaming+chat on xbox live. My current (ridiculous) setup is as follows...
> 
> ...




If anywhere on that audio chain has an analog input, you can definitely start with a virtual surround device like the Mixamp, and use a cable from the headphone out to your setup's first analog input (rca or 3.5mm).

You could just get another mic, and hook it up directly to the Mixamp as well, which would clean up that mess of a setup you have, lol.


----------



## ruuku

sleinzel said:


> Thanks for this awesome thread.
> I need some help on deciding which headphones I would like to buy.
> Me and some mates are starting to play CS:GO a little bit more serious and I'm looking for a new Headset. I have been using a Creative Fatal1ty Headset for years, and it surved its purpose well. But I'm looking for an upgrade.
> The Headphones I've been looking at are these:
> ...




Just a heads up, the E9K will not work with the E7, only the E17, OTOH the E9 will pair with both. 

You'll have to decide how important surround sound is vs portable sq. Any soundcard worth its salt (especially within the gaming category) will have some sort of 3d processing which should make a difference in FPS (if you don't already have some sort of 3d audio processing natively). Either way, the 598s should be fine with either the E7/17 or your soundcard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It will work with the updated E07K though.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They also sent me the A40+Mixamp 2013, which will fare quite a bit better than the A50s.


 
   
  Hit them up for the PLYR 2's next, I'm sure you will like them. Or wait until the PLYR 1's with built in DH.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im kind of hoping I get a break, lol. Haven't had much time to use my own stuff or play games I wanna play, due to all this testing.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Im kind of hoping I get a break, lol. Haven't had much time to use my own stuff or play games I wanna play, due to all this testing.


 
   
  lol, tough being you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I can only play the games I demo DH with so many times before I wanna bang my head against the wall.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i guess no one like my artwork or sense of humor?
  lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do. Lol.

I honestly dont care much about technicalities. I care about how good they sound to my ears. Just like I loved the DT990/32ohm on the high output impedance E9K. Shouldn't sound good, but it does. Others might be more technical, so I would still recommend an amp with lower output impedance like the Magni.

Im more worried about imperfections you can hear, like channel imbalances.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> i guess no one like my artwork or sense of humor?
> lol


 

 I actually thought you were being serious for a minute...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know his type of humor. I have the same kind. 

I will sound serious for something completely ridiculous, and people will believe me. Hahaha.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





doctacosmos said:


> i guess no one like my artwork or sense of humor?
> lol


 
   
  Don't worry, the subtle satire wasn't lost on me.
   
  I agree in that a lot of audiophile discussions get ridiculous like that, from both the subjective and objective sides. All I can say is that when listening to audio equipment, I either like the way it sounds, or I don't like it because either the presentation's not to my tastes or it's obviously defective with a channel imbalance or noise or something else that obviously shouldn't be happening.
   
  I've already found my ideal headphone setup, more or less, and I paid surprisingly little for it, though the savings were mitigated when I spent more for newer iterations of the same headphone design, only to put them back up for sale because I just didn't like the overall comfort and sound presentation as much. Sometimes you don't realize that you've already got your favorite headphone (or audio setup in general) 'til you've compared it with a bunch of different ones and came back disappointed every time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SR009 in your future, Nameless.


----------



## Sleinzel

Thanks for your input so far.
   
  I went to a friend who owns Beyerdynamic DT 880 and 990, but I have to say, I hate them. I kinda get the feeling, that they have too much treble. 
   
  So, my decision is between the HD 650, 600, 598.
   
  Does anyone use the HD 650 or 600 with Asus Xonar Essence ST(X)? Is this soundcard good enough to drive them? I don't expect the 650/600 to give its full potential, but I can always buy a better AMP than the one on the Soundcard. I think I would regret buying the HD598 and then have to upgrade to the HD650 later...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That card should be plenty. Just that those Senns arent the best for gaming... the 600 and 650 I mean. They're good not great.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That card should be plenty. Just that those Senns arent the best for gaming... the 600 and 650 I mean. They're good not great.


 
   
  Yes, in terms of gaming I would go with the 598, but if It comes to music, i'm kinda leaning towards the 650 at the moment. 
   
   
  I would say 50% is gaming and 50% is music. The Gaming is all competitive (Training/Matches).
   
  Which difference is higher?
   
  - HD 650 > HD 598 for music
  - HD 598 > HD 650 for gaming


----------



## platzord

Are the sennheiser hd 449 and sennheiser hd 439 good for gaming? I play mostly League of Legends.
 Or would I be better with razer kraken pro? I've heard they're good for gaming and the sound quality is okay.
   
  And if the sennheiser are better should I consider buying a new soundcard? I'm currently using the integrated audio in my motherboard( VIA VT1708S 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC).

 Feel free to suggest other headphones 

 Sorry if I'm asking too many questions..


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





platzord said:


> Are the sennheiser hd 449 and sennheiser hd 439 good for gaming? I play mostly League of Legends.
> Or would I be better with razer kraken pro? I've heard they're good for gaming and the sound quality is okay.
> 
> And if the sennheiser are better should I consider buying a new soundcard? I'm currently using the integrated audio in my motherboard( VIA VT1708S 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC).
> ...


 
   
  This all really depends on how you play (competitve or just for fun with friends), how much money you wanna spend and how much time you are going to listen to music and how much gaming you wanna do with them.
   
  I cannot help you with the headphone decision, because I'm still looking for my own perfect solution. Did only test some Beyerdynamics so far. 
   
  But I have to say, that a good soundcard lets good cans really shine. But probably not worth buying a soundcard for the two headphones you listed.
   
  Maybe you could check out the Sennheiser PC360 if you are going to use it for teamspeak/skype/ventrillo


----------



## platzord

Yeah I saw the pc360 already if I had enough money to buy them I would......

 I play for fun xD, I spend all day on skype with my friends, listening to music and playing. 
 I've got around 80€ to spend which is around 105$ I think.. So I'm kinda looking for confortable headphones that I can use for long periods of time with good sound for music and gaming.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





platzord said:


> I play for fun xD, I spend all day on skype with my friends, listening to music and playing.
> I've got around 80€ to spend which is around 105$ I think.. So I'm kinda looking for confortable headphones that I can use for long periods of time with good sound for music and gaming.


 
   
  80€ is not much... Maybe you wanna save some money, until you can buy something a little bit more expensive.
   
   
  If you wanna save some money and buy a cheap headset, this one would be my choice:
   
  http://www.amazon.de/Creative-FATAL1TY-Series-Gaming-Headset/dp/B000P5VR16/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
   
   
  Lets see what the pros recommand


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I also felt the temptation of the Bravo tube hybrid, but FWIR I would guess you would feel unsatisfied compared to your other amp experience, unless you wanted to muck around with a soldering iron and parts upgrades from Mouser. Stock, the Bravo suffers some treble AND bass roll-off... The "Indeed" version has upgraded MOSFETS that address most of the treble extension issues, but it has an even wimpy-er power capacitor so bass impact and extension suffer. Apparently the mods are easy if you have a soldering iron and a bit of patience, but I don't see you as willing to "fix" an amp by mucking around. The Little Dot i+ gets good praise, but I see most people recommend a Little Dot MKII or a Project Sunrise (upgraded design based on the bravo/indeeds) first for the level of headphone you play in. I wish i could show you specific examples, but you read much of the Q701 appreciation thread  Maybe you should borrow my tube amp some time?



sleinzel said:


> Thanks for your input so far.
> 
> I went to a friend who owns Beyerdynamic DT 880 and 990, but I have to say, I hate them. I kinda get the feeling, that they have too much treble.
> 
> ...





Sleinzel,
I also have lately become sensitive to too much treble, I think the point where "sparkle" becomes "sizzle" has become easier to reach. I have always wanted to try a Beyerdynamic, particularly the DT880 because other Head-Fi'ers review it as very balanced (though slightly bass light) and an experience very transparent to the music. The Sennheiser HD600 is also regarded as more balanced (noticing a pattern of my preference?) than the former flagship HD650, featuring realistic timbre but also "magical mids," maybe not as much as in MLE's experience with the HD650 but still of high repute. But I don't have any friends with the audiophile bug (shocking in some cases, really), and I've never heard either. Grain of salt, my friend.

That said, I love my Q701, which seems reasonable to find used near $200. As another user recently mentioned, it sounds quite good even off a typical amp (like Mixamp or even straight out of an iPod headphone jack), but the Q701 really *blossoms* when paired with an amp carrying more power. I used my Q701 with a Yamaha receiver and a dedicated headphone tube amp that was made custom for me. My *theory* based on personal observation is that either powerful Solid State or Tube amp will improve the dynamics and authority, the "drama" of audio if you will, Solid State amps can more easily provide gobs of current to supply a smooth, deep bass extension, while Tube amps really brought the soundstage to "life" with more air and can change dramatically by swapping tubes. IMO, any amp will add to the immersive qualities of a good headphone, though I would give a particular nod to a tube amp for how it's strengths translate to soundstage performance AND I happen to find it more immersive. 
Last night, I played the demos for DMC and RE6 then watched the movie Aliens for 30 minutes before my girlfriend called and we watched the movie at her place. The demos felt like I was in cheater mode, I remembered particularly feeling that it was impossible not to notice there was a "lost soul" over this way in the DMC demo, and Aliens was so cool, but when we watched it at her house with her sound system (and 55" plasma Panasonic) we had to turn the volume up extra high because the midbass muddied over the dialogue and it was hard to make out what people were saying... The headphone setup at my home sounded more realistic, atmospheric, AND it was easy to hear everything that was going on. I honestly prefer movies on my home setup than at a movie theater.
I'm currently using a Sylvania JAN 6DJ8 which I won on eBay for $15 – my first listen was an "Oh my god, IT'S FULL OF STARS!" moment: with which the bass isn't fat, but through the entire frequency range the detail and texture were immediately impressive. I feel euphoric while listening. Meanwhile, the Amperex I started with was much more "chocolate" in flavor, bass was phat and mids were very liquid, I would have a hard time going back now but then again I prefer vanilla ice cream usually (plain ice cream is Bleh).
I have a 70's Russian mil-spec tube on the way (winning bid was $.01, so $11.01 shipped), and I also made the FiiO E12 preorder list, so soon I'll be able to make even more amp comparisons.



platzord said:


> Are the sennheiser hd 449 and sennheiser hd 439 good for gaming? I play mostly League of Legends.
> 
> Or would I be better with razer kraken pro? I've heard they're good for gaming and the sound quality is okay.
> 
> ...





Platzord,
What too many questions? 
I play a lot of Starcraft II, which is set up basically the same as LoL (though audio cues are different). The good news is, you probably don't need to spend much money to max out your gaming audio experience (I bet you've heard the same thing about graphics cards  ). That said, headphones emphasizing comfort and clarity in the mids will go a long way. Refined clarity nets you improved dialogue (& chat?) comprehension to some extent, but the biggest advantage would be how easy it would be for you to separate the different sounds of battle so you'll easily hear cues about spells recharged and perhaps the preparations of a griefer. So, control and clarity should be where you target your budget.

I haven't heard people bring up Razer's headsets as being particularly good (performance or value wise) in neutral forums, though people DO rave about their mice and keyboards. Make what you will of that. I haven't personally heard the two Sennheiser models you mention, but the HD449's predecessor sold out quickly and the HD449 continues to be popular, with Head-Fi reviews by experienced reviewers usually including a statement along the lines that Sennheiser's headphones offer great sound quality for their price. I don't think you could go wrong with either, in fact I think you would even do well with the PX100 II on-ear headphones, of which I own the mark I version. My PX100 have a very pleasant balance and are very comfortable (I had to replace the earpad foam after 4 years to restore the comfort), and would do what you need. Mad Lust Envy and Chicolom will also attest to the even cheaper Koss KSC 75 being a viable option, I like 'em too but I haven't compared them (bought for my gf) side-by-side with the PX100 yet. If you go for the cheaper-but-cheerful portable options, they also compliment reference headphones well if you decide you want to wait till you can splash for an all-out amazing headphone.

Oh, almost forgot to mention, cheap USB mics are very viable for all you need to do with PCs. Ask NamelessPFG on his thread what mic he uses. If you want to record your voice better than a cheap mic, you can easily do _that_ better than a headset can anyway.

All that said, the Skullcandy SLYR is still on a massive sale right now (right?), if you read MLE's review and think the clarity will be good enough, then look back a page or two for the discount code on a decent entry-level gaming headset.


----------



## Heretic817

I disagree about the razer carcarias sp? In particular. If you only want to spend about 70 bucks and be out I would put it on your short list but get mixamp over their surround sound expensive sets. My Razers are comfy as hell a lil bassy for an open can but positioning was very impressive. I searched for months before I got big recommendations from several big names at MLG and was very pleased in the end. I still use them for DnB listening. Are they the best headphone? No. Not by far but foe 70 bucks no amp required it's a solid choice over crappy Trittons and TB junk.


----------



## Heretic817

Srry for mistakes but typing from my cell is a pain


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SR009 in your future, Nameless.


 
   
  It might happen, but I'd have to get rich first!
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ask NamelessPFG on his thread what mic he uses.


 
   
  Just for the record, I use some cheap beige Packard Bell (!)-branded desk mic I found at a thrift store for a dollar on my desktop. It does the job.
   
  I'll eventually replace it with the ModMic once they get the mute-switched versions rolling off the assembly line.


----------



## Grymok

Havn't been much up to date the last couple of months in this thread.
  Just felt over this http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Unsere-Highlights-des-Jahres-2012-jetzt-stark-reduziert-:_:606.html a MMX for 270 euro, seems pretty cheap. Ain't those the same af dt 990 premium 250 ohm?.
  They are 300 £ on amazon. So it seems like they are pretty cheap :O?


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Sleinzel,
> I also have lately become sensitive to too much treble, I think the point where "sparkle" becomes "sizzle" has become easier to reach. I have always wanted to try a Beyerdynamic, particularly the DT880 because other Head-Fi'ers review it as very balanced (though slightly bass light) and an experience very transparent to the music. The Sennheiser HD600 is also regarded as more balanced (noticing a pattern of my preference?) than the former flagship HD650, featuring realistic timbre but also "magical mids," maybe not as much as in MLE's experience with the HD650 but still of high repute. But I don't have any friends with the audiophile bug (shocking in some cases, really), and I've never heard either. Grain of salt, my friend.
> That said, I love my Q701, which seems reasonable to find used near $200. As another user recently mentioned, it sounds quite good even off a typical amp (like Mixamp or even straight out of an iPod headphone jack), but the Q701 really *blossoms* when paired with an amp carrying more power. I used my Q701 with a Yamaha receiver and a dedicated headphone tube amp that was made custom for me. My *theory* based on personal observation is that either powerful Solid State or Tube amp will improve the dynamics and authority, the "drama" of audio if you will, Solid State amps can more easily provide gobs of current to supply a smooth, deep bass extension, while Tube amps really brought the soundstage to "life" with more air and can change dramatically by swapping tubes. IMO, any amp will add to the immersive qualities of a good headphone, though I would give a particular nod to a tube amp for how it's strengths translate to soundstage performance AND I happen to find it more immersive.
> Last night, I played the demos for DMC and RE6 then watched the movie Aliens for 30 minutes before my girlfriend called and we watched the movie at her place. The demos felt like I was in cheater mode, I remembered particularly feeling that it was impossible not to notice there was a "lost soul" over this way in the DMC demo, and Aliens was so cool, but when we watched it at her house with her sound system (and 55" plasma Panasonic) we had to turn the volume up extra high because the midbass muddied over the dialogue and it was hard to make out what people were saying... The headphone setup at my home sounded more realistic, atmospheric, AND it was easy to hear everything that was going on. I honestly prefer movies on my home setup than at a movie theater.
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your response.
   
  The Q701 look pretty good, but they're priced the same as the HD650 in my country (400$). I thought the HD650 is normally a lot more expensive. Maybe I could get the Q701 used for 200$, but I'm not the kind of guy for used stuff...
   
  As I stated, I don't think the Beyerdynamics are the perfect solution for me. I don't think I could give these cans another unbiased test, after hearing them today perform so bad (sorry guys, but the treble... arg).
   
   
  I think I'm pretty sure, I'm gonna buy the HD650 and Asus Xonar Essence STX


----------



## platzord

Thanks for all the replies guys!

 I'll be taking a look at the PX100 and the Skullcandy SLYR before I make any decison! I've tried the HD439 and they were very confortable, I was kinda surprised!

 Thanks again for all the help


----------



## Evshrug

Platzord,
It is amazing how comfortable headphones can get!

Mad,
How about this amp? I'll be pitting it up against my tube amp 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/620339/upcoming-fiio-flagship-portable-amp-mont-blanc-e12-updated-on-12-30-2012-final-photo/465#post_9002519


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That E12 is interesting, as it is basically as powerful as the E9 in a portable package. Maybe even more powerful.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Since my order for the DSS was MIA I got a refund and bought a few game to calm me down.(Say alot about me if I go to dark souls for that)
Now I'm ready to try again with 250 im my belt and mixamp in my sight....problem is it's 70$ more then the DSS and I can't decide wether to bite the bullet just for extra features.

However if anyone's willing to sell the mixamp 5.8 I'll glady buy it from them.(Visa only I can't use paypal)


----------



## Heretic817

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Since my order for the DSS was MIA I got a refund and bought a few game to calm me down.(Say alot about me if I go to dark souls for that)
> Now I'm ready to try again with 250 im my belt and mixamp in my sight....problem is it's 70$ more then the DSS and I can't decide wether to bite the bullet just for extra features.
> However if anyone's willing to sell the mixamp 5.8 I'll glady buy it from them.(Visa only I can't use paypal)




Mixamp. Dont buy turtle beach.


----------



## calpis

Wow, that E12 looks delish. They said it has a crossfeed but I don't see it in the pics D:


----------



## Heretic817

calpis said:


> Wow, that E12 looks delish. They said it has a crossfeed but I don't see it in the pics D:



I know it. Now I have another option to consider between this the magni and the O2.


----------



## Evshrug

calpis said:


> Wow, that E12 looks delish. They said it has a crossfeed but I don't see it in the pics D:





It might be just a button. It might also be on the side we can't see in the picture. Hopefully it isn't a permanent feature. Either way, I'm going to find out soon enough and write a review. 
As to Mad's comment about it nearly having the desktop E9k's power, the E9k is 900 mW @ 32Ω (150mW @ 300Ω), while the Monte Blanc is >850mW @ 32Ω (don't yet know what @ 300Ω). By comparison, the E17 produces ~250mW @ 32Ω. The Mont Blanc also has an output impedance of merely <0.5, and I believe it also has lower gain than the E9k which may make it easier to provide enough current to lower impedance headphones without being too loud to listen to... I'm not sure I understand if that's completely true, but if I can enjoy tons of powah (in the palm of my hand!!!) without being limited to working at the bottom of the volume dial (because of too much gain), then I'll be one more happy camper.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ironically before I got the Magni, I was scared it might not have enough gain. In reality, the Magni gets loud a bit too early on it's volume knob, which might be problematic for sensitive headphones. Even using the 150ohm Yuin G1a, the volume is maybe at around 10 o clock. I'll have to check again.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Havn't been much up to date the last couple of months in this thread.
> Just felt over this http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Unsere-Highlights-des-Jahres-2012-jetzt-stark-reduziert-:_:606.html a MMX for 270 euro, seems pretty cheap. Ain't those the same af dt 990 premium 250 ohm?.
> They are 300 £ on amazon. So it seems like they are pretty cheap :O?


 
  Anyone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amazon here in the States have them for $280... not sure what that means on your side, though the one you linked seems custom, which adds to the cost by a bit.

Chico, contrary to their look, the Yuin clip ons are actually open back. Just found out, lol. No wonder their openness is so similar to the KSC35/75.

I love these. My only gripe is that friggin clip ons are so anal when it comes to how close their are to your ears. So hard to judge them accurately...

Im considering the K702 Anniversaries. I hear they actually share a resemblance to the HD650 with a more open sound, and understandably not as warm (very hard to be as warm as the 650). That begs an audition. I already know the soundstage won't be as big as the Q701/K701 though, but should still be quite open.

I may buy them...just might. If I do, Chico, you will be the first to get them, with the full intention of getting you to make one of your awesome comparisons, as well as pad swapping conclusions.

IF I get them... I still need to figure what im gonna do with what I have first.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Amazon here in the States have them for $280... not sure what that means on your side, though the one you linked seems custom, which adds to the cost by a bit.
> Chico, contrary to their look, the Yuin clip ons are actually open back. Just found out, lol. No wonder their openness is so similar to the KSC35/75.
> I love these. My only gripe is that friggin clip ons are so anal when it comes to how close their are to your ears. So hard to judge them accurately...
> Im considering the K702 Anniversaries. I hear they actually share a resemblance to the HD650 with a more open sound, and understandably not as warm (very hard to be as warm as the 650). That begs an audition. I already know the soundstage won't be as big as the Q701/K701 though, but should still be quite open.
> ...


 
  I'm from the Europe/Denmark, so the prices is abit difference. 
  But how is the Beyer mx 300 compared to any of the other DT 770, 880 and 990. As by now i have decided the dt 990 premium 250 ohm. But if they are identical then the MX 300 is abit cheaper


----------



## Rambobbybob

[size=10pt]Hey guys![/size]
  [size=10pt]I read a lot of threads on head-fi and other websites to find a headset or a headphone + mic, I spent more than 20 hours on it but well it's complicated [/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]In fact, at the beginning I wanted a great headset for gaming particularly for positioning, but that could also be good for 5.1 or 7.1 movies and not bad for music too. Another difficulty is that I want to play on ps3, xbox 360 or pc with that headset. My pc is an alienware M17x R3 that can’t do Dolby Digital Live, so it seems that I need an external sound card (like asus sonar U3 or creative x-fi titanium HD), that I will probably get anyway as the sound card in the laptop is not that great.[/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]When I found this great thread, I begin interested in mixamp as it seems to be very useful to improve the sound “quality”. However it doesn’t seem to be that great on pc ! The Recon 3D could do the work but, based on MLE thoughts on it, if Dolby is better I would prefer to use Dolby![/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]I also read lot of things lately about stereo headphones like AKG K701 with an amp such as Fiio E10 or E17 but would it be good on consoles? (I don’t know if MLE had the opportunity to try it as it does only Stereo?)[/size]
  [size=10pt] [/size]
  [size=10pt]It seems that the Skullcandy Plyr 1 could be the perfect headset for me but I don’t really want to wait until April! What I really want is to be amazed by the sound I’m hearing while playing or watching movies, can someone enlighten me? [/size]


----------



## Sleinzel

Some might be interested in my final choice.
   
   
  I just ordered a Q701 (230$) and a HD598 (200$) and a Xonar Essence ST (200$). I hope I don't have to return them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 and HD598 are more similar than anything, no idea why you went for both...


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 and HD598 are more similar than anything, no idea why you went for both...


 
   
  Testing both, returning one. Thanks to Amazon's return policy.
   
  Could you recommand a good headset which sounds a little bit warmer than the HD598 (something like the HD650 but cheaper  )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

558...

Headset? PC360. Literally what you want as a headset that sounds like the 598 but warmer.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 558...
> Headset? PC360. Literally what you want as a headset that sounds like the 598 but warmer.


 
   
   
  Sorry, I meant Headphone...
   
  Does the 558 sound warmer/less analytic than the 598?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Very similar but warmer and more fun. I actually like it more.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes. Very similar but warmer and more fun. I actually like it more.


 
   
  Thanks, gonna check them out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the Q701 blows both of them away in any case.


----------



## element72

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the Q701 blows both of them away in any case.


 
  Hey Envy, I'm thinking of getting the Astro Mixamp Pro for my Q701. Is that good enough? I'm a pc gamer, and I just want to be able to drive these hp and also use dolby headphone. My sound card is a titanium HD, but I want to try out dolby headphone, and see for myself the difference between cmss-3d.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For gaming, yes, but the Q701 is really a picky person in terms of amping, and so I would suggest a real amp to power them to get the most out of them.

As far as for PC, I'd honestly save the money and probably get something like the Xonar U3 if you wanna try out Dolby Headphone. The Mixamp is really not worth it for PC use. I'd spend that money on the U3 and hook up a desktop amp to it's headphone out, instead of the Mixamp alone... if I was a PC gamer.


BTW, anyone who IS trying to use the Mixamp as a USB dac/amp for your computer, I forgot to mention that your voice/game knob has to be put on the VOICE side to get audio, which is opposite of how you'd hook it up to consoles, which would be onb the GAME side. I figured this out late, and originally though the mixamp didn't work on my PC as a usb device.

Just tried the Mixamp 2013 on my desktop... it didn't sound that great. It's almost like a AM compared to FM. Yeah, it's treble oriented, lacking impact.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the Q701 blows both of them away in any case.


 
   
  Ok. I will see. But seems like I'm gonna return the HD598 and keep the Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have updated the Astro A50 for more completion (adding of Clarity, Accessories, and some corrections throughout the review). Is it complete? I'll say it's 99% complete. I still feel I'm missing a few things, just not sure what they are yet, lol.



> *Astro A50 (*wireless headset*)*
> http://www.astrogaming.com/a50-wireless-system
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## fauaad

Has anyone here used the Senn U320s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also wanna add that I have updated ALL headphones, with newer scores to reflect my more up to date impressions, preferences, etc. Some are unchanged, just with added notes on the final scores, and some are changed to be more realistic (for example changing a 1 into a 4). It should look a bit better now.


----------



## element72

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For gaming, yes, but the Q701 is really a picky person in terms of amping, and so I would suggest a real amp to power them to get the most out of them.
> As far as for PC, I'd honestly save the money and probably get something like the Xonar U3 if you wanna try out Dolby Headphone. The Mixamp is really not worth it for PC use. I'd spend that money on the U3 and hook up a desktop amp to it's headphone out, instead of the Mixamp alone... if I was a PC gamer.
> BTW, anyone who IS trying to use the Mixamp as a USB dac/amp for your computer, I forgot to mention that your voice/game knob has to be put on the VOICE side to get audio, which is opposite of how you'd hook it up to consoles, which would be onb the GAME side. I figured this out late, and originally though the mixamp didn't work on my PC as a usb device.
> Just tried the Mixamp 2013 on my desktop... it didn't sound that great. It's almost like a AM compared to FM. Yeah, it's treble oriented, lacking impact.


 
  I just want to clarify, you hooked up the mixamp to the PC via usb? In terms of sound quality, is that any different from hooking up the Titanium HD to the amp via optical cable? That was my original plan; using the mixamp to tryout dolby headphone, while at the same time getting the power I need for my Q701. Please let me know if I should not go that route.
   
  As you suggested,  I am now considering a desktop amp and a new sound card. I don't want to spend much, and I really just want to try out dolby headphone, so that I can compare it to the CMSS-3D for myself. I plan to keep the Q701 for a few years, so I'm gonna need an amp that I could use for my PC, and for future purposes, my wii console. I don't like the idea of switching out cables frequently. Please if you will, I would very much appreciate your highly valued opinion on what desktop amp and DAC (that features DH) I should purchase 






. I see that the magni and fiio e9k is about $100 and the xonar U3 is about $50, so that amounts to $150. That's at least $50 more than just buying the mixamp pro. Is there a cheaper combination? Namely, the xonar DG for the DH feature?
   
  I did read your guide, but the difference between the schiit magni, fiio e9k, and fiio e9 (older version) confuses me, because I'm very inexperienced with audiophile-sound equipment. I have very minimal needs, and all the extra stuff I get for what I'm paying is of no concern to me.


----------



## gonzfi

I have a Phillips x1 hooked up to an astro wireless mix amp. Awesome is the word I'd use. Great base whilst still retaining clarity. Highly recommended.


----------



## Sleinzel

Why does shipping takes 2 days... 
   
  Can't wait to check out the Q701 and HD598...
   
  Please god, let the package be here tommorow


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





rambobbybob said:


> [size=10pt]external sound card (like asus xonar U3 or creative x-fi titanium HD)[/size]


 
   
  The Titanium HD is an internal PCI-Express card. No chance of hooking that up to a laptop, unless you're willing to muck around with PE-4L ExpressCard adapters.
   
  The X-Fi HD USB is an entirely different product not just because of the USB interface, but like all "X-Fi" USB devices, it doesn't actually have the EMU20k1/20k2 DSP for hardware sound acceleration and just does everything in software.
   
  Quote: 





element72 said:


> I just want to clarify, you hooked up the mixamp to the PC via usb? In terms of sound quality, is that any different from hooking up the Titanium HD to the amp via optical cable? That was my original plan; using the mixamp to tryout dolby headphone, while at the same time getting the power I need for my Q701. Please let me know if I should not go that route.
> 
> As you suggested,  I am now considering a desktop amp and a new sound card. I don't want to spend much, and I really just want to try out dolby headphone, so that I can compare it to the CMSS-3D for myself. I plan to keep the Q701 for a few years, so I'm gonna need an amp that I could use for my PC, and for future purposes, my wii console. I don't like the idea of switching out cables frequently. Please if you will, I would very much appreciate your highly valued opinion on what desktop amp and DAC (that features DH) I should purchase
> 
> ...


 
   
  For starters, connecting the Mixamp via USB means you're using its own "sound card" and DAC like any other USB audio device, more or less. If you want to make your own CMSS-3D vs. DH comparisons, you need to connect it via S/PDIF out of the X-Fi card and enable Dolby Digital Live so that the Mixamp can decode it and apply DH itself, and to ensure consistency, test CMSS-3D through the Mixamp as well via turning off DH on the Mixamp and DDL on the sound card, and streaming the stereo mix through S/PDIF.
   
  That's how I formed my own conclusions on the two using my SU-DH1.
   
  For Wii usage, you need something with Dolby Pro Logic II decoding support; the Mixamp allegedly supports this, though it isn't explicitly advertised. For Wii U usage...well, things just got a lot more complicated since it only outputs discrete surround sound over HDMI, forcing you to use an A/V receiver with headphone surround processing.
   
  Also note that you're throwing dedicated amps, USB DACs/sound cards, and internal PCI sound cards all into the mix. Very, very different products. I'm not even sure exactly what you're aiming for here, but it seems like you're only concerned with PC support.


----------



## Evshrug

rambobbybob said:


> [SIZE=10pt]Hey guys![/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=10pt]I read a lot of threads on head-fi and other websites to find a headset or a headphone + mic, I spent more than 20 hours on it but well it's complicated [/SIZE]
> 
> ...




Rambobbybob,
If it helps any to make you feel better, it took me a month to settle on my AD700 headphones (and another month to actually receive them...), and then a few YEARS to decide on jumping to the Q701. Thinking is good (and so is saving money), but so is living your life 

Isn't your Alienware a laptop? In that case, I don't think you can use an internal sound card like the Titanium HD or Asus Xonar DG/DX anyway. If you live in America, then you can find the USB external DAC like the ASUS Xonar U3 for cheaper than $50... Black Friday may be over, but you can still buy it for $35 new or $28 refurbished. None of those would work with a console. If you really just wanna hear a sample of Dolby Headphone, why spend $$$? Mad has a perfectly serviceable YouTube video linked at the top of his guide that already has Dolby Headphone baked in. Try listening to that first before you buy!

The other thing, which is true for all audio, is your own ears are ultimately the best judge of what you'll enjoy. Everyone's ear is shaped and damaged differently, lol, so we all respond to sounds differently. IMO there is a small caveat to that, I think Surround processed audio takes a bit of time to get used to... I had to play/watch for a bit before I stopped concentrating to "hear the effect" and instead watch the media and let instinct fool me for surround placement. 

Back to unique ears, I think your ear will determine if you prefer Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, THX TruStudio, Silent Cinema etc, and that is the main audio difference between the Mixamp and Recon3D IMO. I happen to like my Recon3D (I use it with my Xbox and PC running Mac or Windows), and my ears actually put TruStudio ahead of DH, and CMSS-3D doesn't work _for me_ very well. NamelessPFG likes CMSS-3D best. So, just keep in mind YMMV. One thing I do notice with the Recon3D, dynamics and depth definitely improved on my Q701 by adding a powerful headphone amp. The Recon3D was perfectly suited by itself for the AD700 though, and the bass boost was a welcome option for that headphone as well. I saw Nameless selling his Recon3D at a very good price, bargain compared to the Mixamp.

Regardless whether you get a Xonar U3, Mixamp, Recon3D, DSS or something else, you're going to feel like you're missing something with harder to drive headphones like the Q701 (apparently the Beyer DT990 32Ω too, and all higher impedance headphones), so you'll eventually want an external headphone amp. All of the surround processors I mentioned have a built-in amp only about as powerful as an iPod classic (Mixamp may be a bit more, and I suspect the Recon3D is "capped" to prevent hiss), so I have come to view them JUST as a processor component, and I use an extra amp when I want to get serious  MLE amped his Mixamp with a FiiO E17 for a good ling time, using the E17 just as an amp. Ultimately, the E11 is a cheaper and more powerful amp, because it's only an amp, but Mad wanted the E17 to also use in stereo with music from the computer. An E9k (or Magni) is even more powerful, probably good enough to "stay" as a final headphone amp.

What would I recommend? Buy nice things so you don't have to upgrade later, and buy things separate as you are able to afford them. Like, a powerful stand alone amp can be used with soundcard or audio processor for consoles, but if you get an E17 and then an upgraded Amp or soundcard then half of the E17's features become redundant.


----------



## element72

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Also note that you're throwing dedicated amps, USB DACs/sound cards, and internal PCI sound cards all into the mix. Very, very different products. I'm not even sure exactly what you're aiming for here, but it seems like you're only concerned with PC support.


 
  Your exactly right; I am mostly concerned with PC support. I'll figure out what to do with my Wii (not wii u) later. I plan to buy the Xonar U3 right now and compare DH to CMSS-3D today using my HD555. Once I figure out which one I prefer, should I just go for the cheapest desktop amp to go with my Q701? I'm looking at the schiit magni, fiio e9k, and fiio e9. 
   
  Thanks for your previous post. It was VERY hlpeful.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Ordered the mixamp 2013 edition last night and am now waiting for them to arrive.

One thing I want to know, has anyone tried out the HD558's or 598's with them? The 2013 edition seems to add more bass from what I hear and I could use that since the 558's while awesome never had much impact to them.

Also any clip on mic recommendations? I'm thinking of a zalman mic but I'm open for anything else.


----------



## Evshrug

That Zalman mic has had... mixed reviews, mainly citing sensitivity problems. You can get an even cheaper lapel mic that will do even better... I got a three pack of mics and two cheap 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapters for about $6 total from Amazon. That was for my Xbox 360... For PC you can still use the lapel mics or a cheap USB mic.

Edit: this is what I bought. http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1356912867&sr=1-2&keywords=lapel+mic
My friends liked the clarity, but sometimes wish it was a bit louder, but I can almost whisper if I clip it to a scarf or something.


----------



## seb UK

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I've got DT990's and a DSS2 which are great but now I'm looking at amping. How does an amp like an E9 actually fit into this setup? Does it sit between the DSS2 and the DT990? I'm guessing it somehow doesn't affect the converted 5.1 signal as it passes through.
   
  Second question - is the E9 the best amp to use for the DT990? It seems like it is but just wanted to make sure. 
   
  Sorry if these have already been asked but I wasn't able to find answers.


----------



## element72

Quote: 





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Ordered the mixamp 2013 edition last night and am now waiting for them to arrive.
> One thing I want to know, has anyone tried out the HD558's or 598's with them? The 2013 edition seems to add more bass from what I hear and I could use that since the 558's while awesome never had much impact to them.
> Also any clip on mic recommendations? I'm thinking of a zalman mic but I'm open for anything else.


 
  Used the zalman mic myself. There is no shielding.. meaning if the wire rubs against anything it creates muffled random noises from the rubbing. I used it myself and preferred the logitech desktop mic. It gets the job done without having any extra wires attached to me  I hear ppl recommend the antlion mic. Its a simple mod you attach to your headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

seb uk said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question. I've got DT990's and a DSS2 which are great but now I'm looking at amping. How does an amp like an E9 actually fit into this setup? Does it sit between the DSS2 and the DT990? I'm guessing it somehow doesn't affect the converted 5.1 signal as it passes through.
> 
> Second question - is the E9 the best amp to use for the DT990? It seems like it is but just wanted to make sure.
> 
> Sorry if these have already been asked but I wasn't able to find answers.




Yeah, the Mixamp basically bakes the DH magic into the 3.5mm headphone output, whether you plug your headphones in or you plug in a headphone amp (like e9k). An dedicated amp doesn't process the sound... It just provides more current and voltage, just supplying enough "juice" for headphone drivers to meet their potential.

From what little I've read on the E9(k) and Magni, my 2nd hand opinion would be the E9k would be very similar but perhaps more pleasing with the somewhat bright DT990. I chose a tube amp so I could color the sound a bit and sweeten the highs and sense of space, it's been working well for me.

P.S. not a dumb question  just plug in a cable between the DSS output and the amp's input, DSS volume at like 80%


----------



## mata944

Great guide really helping me out; I just have a question or two.  My current gaming set up is a turtle beach dss connected to an xbox 360.  I have a pretty old pair of hd 595's that ive been using for gaming and they've been great.  However what brought me back to your guide is that I don't feel a real sense of immersion that I so desperately crave.  My 595's are great for competitive gaming, but I feel like I'm missing out when it comes to the low end.  The kind of base I want for gaming is the mood setting base; like the kind that rumbles.  As you stated somewhere in your guide, I want a "fantastic bass impact", not boomy but more like your in a movie theater.  Since I will be using these headphones only for gaming in the dolby digital mode (or dolby headphone, not sure if their the same thing) on my turtle beach dss, I don't really mind a reduced treble.
   
  At first I was looking into getting the Q701, since it seems that everyone thinks they're fantastic.  But you stated that while the bass is satisfying at times, it isn't great.  So right now I have my heart set on a pair of Beyerdynamic  DT990 pro's (250 ohm) as they pretty much have everything I just described that I wanted.  I just wanted to know if there were any other headphones that would also be worth looking into (under $300) or if I should reconsider the Q701's maybe.  And while immersion is most important to me I do also want a great soundstage and directional accuracy for competitive use.  
   
  If the DT990's are what you think is best for my needs then I understand they need amping and I already have a fiio e11 which I use for music.  Would the fiio e11 connected to the turtle beach dss work well with the DT990 pro 250 ohm?
   
  Thank's for reading


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I kinda need a clip on mic because I don't have a desktop setup at the moment.
The antlion mic look's great. Gonna see wether or not they have it in stock.


----------



## element72

I just got the xonar U3. I'm not sure what settings ppl play for the best positional cues. Let me know what to tryout or what's best for you on dolby headphone. I have audio channel set to 8 (recommended by Asus for 3D games), gaming mode set (this enables dolby headphone and DH-2; there is also option DH-1 and DH-3). 
   
  Again the settings I'm using are audio channel 8, gaming mode preset, and "headphone" in game. I'm currently playing left 4 dead 2. As of now I'm still liking the CMSS-3D more. I just wish someone would tell me how they set up their sound for dolby headphone.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





element72 said:


> I just got the xonar U3. I'm not sure what settings ppl play for the best positional cues. Let me know what to tryout or what's best for you on dolby headphone. I have audio channel set to 8 (recommended by Asus for 3D games), gaming mode set (this enables dolby headphone and DH-2; there is also option DH-1 and DH-3).
> 
> Again the settings I'm using are audio channel 8, gaming mode preset, and "headphone" in game. I'm currently playing left 4 dead 2. As of now I'm still liking the CMSS-3D more. I just wish someone would tell me how they set up their sound for dolby headphone.


 
   
   
  You may want to ask this question on the Nameless Guide to PC gaming:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound/1155
   
  Remember most on this thread are console gamers. The people on the Nameless guide tend to have more experience with sound cards.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, you should probably stick this picture in the first post somewhere (probably near the external amp section) to show the newbs how to hook up external amp/headphones/third party mics.


----------



## Evshrug

Chico,
I like the diagram, but the bends in the "flow" lines make it look more complicated than it really is. Did you make it? Could you perhaps draw the lines in a U shape and take out some of the zigzaggies?


element72 said:


> I just got the xonar U3. I'm not sure what settings ppl play for the best positional cues. Let me know what to tryout or what's best for you on dolby headphone. I have audio channel set to 8 (recommended by Asus for 3D games), gaming mode set (this enables dolby headphone and DH-2; there is also option DH-1 and DH-3).
> 
> Again the settings I'm using are audio channel 8, gaming mode preset, and "headphone" in game. I'm currently playing left 4 dead 2. As of now I'm still liking the CMSS-3D more. I just wish someone would tell me how they set up their sound for dolby headphone.




Element72,
DH-2 is what the Mixamp uses. The U3 will convert the sound fed to it into headphone, so you ought to set L4D2's preferences to 7.1 or surround.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chico,
> I like the diagram, but the bends in the "flow" lines make it look more complicated than it really is. Did you make it? Could you perhaps draw the lines in a U shape and take out some of the zigzaggies?


 
   
  I didn't make that one.  :\


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> MLE, you should probably stick this picture in the first post somewhere (probably near the external amp section) to show the newbs how to hook up external amp/headphones/third party mics.


 

 Not bad.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I didn't make that one.  :\




Who did? I know I've seen this diagram before. It's very complete and useful for setup, but at first glance might scare off anyone who just wants a simple setup. I admit, I wish I could just plug my headphones straight into the Xbox and get glorious sound, but I also know how many corners were cut in the Xboxx 360 build, and would find an 3.5 mm out on a console very dubious, and probably sound very cheap.

I'd make a new diagram right now, but I ought to be sleeping, and job hunting again tomorrow :/


----------



## Peculier

I just received my Sennheiser PC360, and when used with the Astro Mixamp, these definitely have the BEST positioning I have ever heard from a gaming headset. I own the Astro A30/40 and the Turtle Beach X41s, and these are a DEFINITE step up from the Astro headsets. The mic is crystal clear, people were surprised by how clear my voice was compared to the Astro mic that I had previously been using. I play on both Xbox 360 and PC.
   
  Build quality is stellar, the headset feels solid (moreso than the A30 and A40). The headset is very comfortable, more than the A30 and A40 due to the material for the padding being softer thicker. Being an open backed headset, these do not isolate amazingly, but as I play in a quiet environment, it is not an issue for me. 
   
  If you are looking for a new headset and already have a mixamp or soundcard, GET THE PC360. You won't regret it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Who did? I know I've seen this diagram before. It's very complete and useful for setup, but at first glance might scare off anyone who just wants a simple setup.


 
   
  Not sure.  I've seen it before too, and I've posted it before in the thread.  All the info is correct on it and it's helpful to see how to hook stuff up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The image is added. I should have done this ages ago. Better late than never, lol.

Once the K702/65 comes back down in price... I might bite.

Chico, you ever sell those Japanese A-Ts?

Man, I kinda really wanna hear the HD800 now, lol. Something about a large soundstage that is just so...necessary. And hell no, I'd never spend that much. $600 is the most I'd ever pay.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, you ever sell those Japanese A-Ts?
> 
> Man, I kinda really wanna hear the HD800 now, lol. Something about a large soundstage that is just so...necessary. And hell no, I'd never spend that much. $600 is the most I'd ever pay.


 
   
  The TAD500?  Ya.  Katun almost bought them from me, but somebody else wanted them more.
   
  Someone should try and capture the essence of the HD800 soundstage and bring it to the $300 bracket.  Sennheiser's ridiculous MSRPs are just offensive.  I'm more interested in the soundstage/imaging than the whatever else is amazing about it.
   
  Maybe we'll get a Superlux HD800 clone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For now, we have to live with the Q701 as the alternative. 

Not sure how much soundstage is gonna be lost with the K702/65, but I'm gonna find out soon enough. 

A bridge between the Q701 and HD650 sounds SO ideal.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For now, we have to live with the Q701 as the alternative.


 
   
  Ya, I've seen several posts where people say the Q701 is the closest thing to a mini HD800. 
   
  Still, I'm all for more open veloury headphones with big soundstages coming out.  Keep them coming.
   
  When is AKG going to make a K80x?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A new electrostat with it's power amp for $1000 total.


----------



## Rambobbybob

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Rambobbybob,
> If it helps any to make you feel better, it took me a month to settle on my AD700 headphones (and another month to actually receive them...), and then a few YEARS to decide on jumping to the Q701. Thinking is good (and so is saving money), but so is living your life
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the reply! For the "asus sonar U3 or creative x-fi titanium HD", I was talking about the USB version!
   
  I have already tried the video on the fist page of thirs thread, and well I like the effect of DH! But if you get a good surround effect with the Recond 3D, then it's probably the better option as it cost 3x less than a mixamp in France -_-
  I guess that Recon3D + amp + Q701 is a good option! I don't really know for pc gaming or movies what would be the best between a recon3D or a sonar U3? (it seems that an usb sound card is better for pc than the recond 3D in the Nameless Guide...)
  I don't want a portable amp as I already have in-ear headphones, the headphone will stay at home! E9 could be a good solution but it's quite overprice in France -_- and amazon.com don't send it here!
   
  By the way, did someone tried gaming with in-ear headphones? I wonder in fact if the headphone will make a clear difference with my in-ear headphone (Monster Turbine Pro Copper).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

God ****it. So I'm sitting here watching Looper on Blu-Ray, and the Yuin G1A is distorting the bass like crazy. Sigh. Like super crackling. I'll record it so people don't think I'm crazy.

I have the worst luck with headphones, I swear.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhs0sqpiCJw[/VIDEO]

Some of the rattling is from the movie itself, but the highest pitch rattles is the clipping.

Tried it with my KSC35/75 and HE400, and I don't get the distortion. Not to mention the left driver rattles on all bass. I expect a little rattle from clip-ons, but not all bass frequencies.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yeah, the Mixamp basically bakes the DH magic into the 3.5mm headphone output, whether you plug your headphones in or you plug in a headphone amp (like e9k). An dedicated amp doesn't process the sound... It just provides more current and voltage, just supplying enough "juice" for headphone drivers to meet their potential.
> From what little I've read on the E9(k) and Magni, my 2nd hand opinion would be the E9k would be very similar but perhaps more pleasing with the somewhat bright DT990. I chose a tube amp so I could color the sound a bit and sweeten the highs and sense of space, it's been working well for me.
> P.S. not a dumb question
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks that's helpful. And that diagram too!
   
  Now just gotta bring myself to drop 110 pounds on the E9  My plan to justify it is, if the amp doesn't help, then I can always return it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A new electrostat with it's power amp for $1000 total.


 
   
  When you gonna start reviewing electrostats? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm starting to lean towards these as my next setup. I'm scouring ebay and CL daily, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Whenever someone buys them for me.


----------



## Evshrug

rambobbybob said:


> Thanks for the reply! For the "asus sonar U3 or creative x-fi titanium HD", I was talking about the USB version!
> 
> I have already tried the video on the fist page of thirs thread, and well I like the effect of DH! But if you get a good surround effect with the Recond 3D, then it's probably the better option as it cost 3x less than a mixamp in France -_-
> I guess that Recon3D + amp + Q701 is a good option! I don't really know for pc gaming or movies what would be the best between a recon3D or a sonar U3? (it seems that an usb sound card is better for pc than the recond 3D in the Nameless Guide...)
> ...



Creative makes an X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB sound card, as well as a few other USB "sound cards" (the Recon3D would fall into this category, it's also from Creative), but in your defense I have seen the Titanium HD description text accidentally put onto a product page for the X-Fi surround 5.1 USB.

As far as movies go, DH was designed for movies and does well, and THX TruStudio Pro (which is what the Recon3D uses) was kinda designed with both gaming and movies in mind. Again, I won't say which is better since that depends on your ears, BUT I enjoy watching movies with my Recon3D and had a great time watching "Aliens" a few days ago. 

As far as gaming goes, DH still applies the same sound, but has a limitation carried over from it's "designed for movie" heritage: the surround is really just a flat 2D surround to the sides, front, and back of you. Most of the time that's fine, and all that console games are capable of anyway, but for SOME games on PC, Creative's cards can create 3D surround so you can hear helicopters flying overhead or water flowing under your feet. That's a big reason Nameless prefers Creative's cards, particularly the internal X-Fi soundcards because those have the best support. Sadly though, most of the latest PC games don't offer full 3D surround as an option because the games were first designed for Xbox 360 or PS3 which only support 5.1 or 7.1 surround (2D), but if you want to play a game like Half-Life 2 or Bioshock, the 3D experience is there. I need to ask Nameless if Borderlands 2 has support for one of the 3D codecs.

So, most of the time, the U3 & Recon3D have equal surround potential, except with older games. But then, the Recon3D connects with either PC or Console, so it is more versatile, and the Recon3D also has the benefit that you can adjust settings on the PC and save them to use with your console.

Which do you think you want? The U3 is cheapest, the Recon3D works with PC and console, and apparently the Mixamp is 3x the cost. I hope I wrote clearly enough, je ne ecrit pas en français parce que je ne parle pas avec un personne pour dix ans.

Oh, and Mad did game a bit with in-ear headphones, and I've heard a few binaural (natural surround) recordings with my Etymotic ER6i IEMs. I think Mad's impressions are in his guide, I agree the soundstage is small (doesn't seem like the sounds are naturally coming from outside your head), but the illusion of direction DOES work well with detailed earphones. Astro and Etymotic both made gaming IEMs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the RE0s worked well for gaming, though it's not a replacement for full sized headphones, or even clip-ons.


----------



## Atavax

right now i have a hot audio bit perfect dac and then a grado sr60i and a sennheiser 598. When i'm playing seriously, the 598s are great, but i think the 60s are very fun to game with. I was thinking about buying a higher end grado for fun, but my 60's cable is a mess and i don't want to invest a lot of money on cans that have a tendency to tangle and can't easily be replaced. So i was wondering if anyone had a suggestion for something that had similar audio characteristics to a grado, in the $150-$300 range, without the cable problems; also don't want to have to buy a better amp, and needs to be open back because i can't hear phone with closed.  Might just wait until i can afford the hifiman 400s... anyone know if my dac's built in amp would be sufficient for them?


----------



## seb UK

Just ordered an E09K for my DT990's, currently running off a DSS2. Hoping this provides a bit more refinement to the current sound.
   
  Does anyone here use Apple TV for streaming movies? I've got some 5.1 movies on my Macbook that I'd like to stream through Apple TV. But when I plug the optical plug from the DSS2 into the Apple TV optical port, the Dolby Digital signal doesn't light up. So I'm thinking the dolby signal somehow isn't making it through the DSS2...hmm.


----------



## seb UK

BTW has anyone got suggestions for movies with really good surround sound? The best one I can think of at the moment is Saving Private Ryan.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Who did? I know I've seen this diagram before. It's very complete and useful for setup, but at first glance might scare off anyone who just wants a simple setup. I admit, I wish I could just plug my headphones straight into the Xbox and get glorious sound, but I also know how many corners were cut in the Xboxx 360 build, and would find an 3.5 mm out on a console


 
  I hate to say it but if someone finds that diagram to hard to follow they probably shouldn't be on head-fi. Technology is only getting more complicated and to get the most out of what you have is, I feel, always going to take some tweaking to get it just right. 
   
  Quote: 





peculier said:


> I just received my Sennheiser PC360, and when used with the Astro Mixamp, these definitely have the BEST positioning I have ever heard from a gaming headset. I own the Astro A30/40 and the Turtle Beach X41s, and these are a DEFINITE step up from the Astro headsets. The mic is crystal clear, people were surprised by how clear my voice was compared to the Astro mic that I had previously been using. I play on both Xbox 360 and PC.
> 
> Build quality is stellar, the headset feels solid (moreso than the A30 and A40). The headset is very comfortable, more than the A30 and A40 due to the material for the padding being softer thicker. Being an open backed headset, these do not isolate amazingly, but as I play in a quiet environment, it is not an issue for me.
> 
> If you are looking for a new headset and already have a mixamp or soundcard, GET THE PC360. You won't regret it.


 
  Thats good to hear, the PC360 are on the top of my want list when I have an abundance of money. 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> God ****it. So I'm sitting here watching Looper on Blu-Ray, and the Yuin G1A is distorting the bass like crazy. Sigh. Like super crackling. I'll record it so people don't think I'm crazy.
> I have the worst luck with headphones, I swear.Some of the rattling is from the movie itself, but the highest pitch rattles is the clipping.
> Tried it with my KSC35/75 and HE400, and I don't get the distortion. Not to mention the left driver rattles on all bass. I expect a little rattle from clip-ons, but not all bass frequencies.


 
  For what you paid for the G1A that is unacceptable. If I remember correctly you said they were not a large increase in quality over the Koss clip-ons so that build quality should at least be higher to justify the cost. Maybe they will by like my Koss DJ100/TBSE where they start out high and then drop down to a reasonable price, that would make sense because then they would be able to compete with the Koss clip-on market.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Whenever someone buys them for me.


 
   
  Have you ever heard the Beyer Headzone or Smyth Realiser MLE? Seriously thinking about investing in one of the 2, and just trying to get as much input as possible.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you even looked at the first post? I had the Headzone...


----------



## Rambobbybob

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Creative makes an X-Fi Surround 5.1 USB sound card, as well as a few other USB "sound cards" (the Recon3D would fall into this category, it's also from Creative), but in your defense I have seen the Titanium HD description text accidentally put onto a product page for the X-Fi surround 5.1 USB.
> As far as movies go, DH was designed for movies and does well, and THX TruStudio Pro (which is what the Recon3D uses) was kinda designed with both gaming and movies in mind. Again, I won't say which is better since that depends on your ears, BUT I enjoy watching movies with my Recon3D and had a great time watching "Aliens" a few days ago.
> As far as gaming goes, DH still applies the same sound, but has a limitation carried over from it's "designed for movie" heritage: the surround is really just a flat 2D surround to the sides, front, and back of you. Most of the time that's fine, and all that console games are capable of anyway, but for SOME games on PC, Creative's cards can create 3D surround so you can hear helicopters flying overhead or water flowing under your feet. That's a big reason Nameless prefers Creative's cards, particularly the internal X-Fi soundcards because those have the best support. Sadly though, most of the latest PC games don't offer full 3D surround as an option because the games were first designed for Xbox 360 or PS3 which only support 5.1 or 7.1 surround (2D), but if you want to play a game like Half-Life 2 or Bioshock, the 3D experience is there. I need to ask Nameless if Borderlands 2 has support for one of the 3D codecs.
> So, most of the time, the U3 & Recon3D have equal surround potential, except with older games. But then, the Recon3D connects with either PC or Console, so it is more versatile, and the Recon3D also has the benefit that you can adjust settings on the PC and save them to use with your console.
> ...


 
   
  I think I will try the recon 3D ! You have convinced me ^^ As it's compatible with consoles and pc, and quite cheap, it's the best option for me!
  In France I can have the mixamp for 190 euros (so expensive... astro don't sell it without a headphone and I didn't find any website to import it), and the recon 3D for 60 euros...
  I will probably go with recon 3D, amp (I don't know which one for the moment but I will search) and the Q701! 
  Thank you very much for yours replies!
  And not bad for the French


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





rambobbybob said:


> I think I will try the recon 3D ! You have convinced me ^^ As it's compatible with consoles and pc, and quite cheap, it's the best option for me!
> In France I can have the mixamp for 190 euros (so expensive... astro don't sell it without a headphone and I didn't find any website to import it), and the recon 3D for 60 euros...
> I will probably go with recon 3D, amp (I don't know which one for the moment but I will search) and the Q701!
> Thank you very much for yours replies!
> And not bad for the French


 
  Buying them from amazon.com ain't an option?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> When you gonna start reviewing electrostats?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Whenever he gets a speaker amp. Even an old integrated receiver from a thrift store or the local craigslist or something would work.
   
  Otherwise, he won't be able to power the SRD-7/SB or other transformer boxes like that at all, since they're designed to connect to the speaker taps of old integrated receivers. This makes lending my prized SR-Lambda setup to him for a review pointless.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Whenever someone buys them for me.


 
   
  Sorry, I'm not that rich.
   
  Even if I do go through with lending you my Stax setup for a review, I'd like something to review in exchange, probably your HE-400. Could be a temporary trade, unless you want both headphones side-by-side for comparison's sake.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd send you the HE-400. I was planning to soon anyways. Was gona send them out, so you, Chico, and Calpis can compare...


----------



## NamelessPFG

I had a hunch that's what you meant by that earlier post about the three of us having something to look forward to from you soon, but now I'm sure.
   
  This ought to be an interesting introduction to orthodynamics, and also a way to find out how much planar driver designs are similar-and different-between those that use electromagnetic forces and those that use electrostatic forces to move the diaphragm.
   
  As an aside, why do PS3 game patches take so long to download? Steam never takes quite this long to download gigabytes upon gigabytes of data. It's even worse when you can't multi-task during download and installation.
   
  It didn't seem so bad 'til I decided to plunk down for PS+ and suddenly find myself with all these free games ready to download...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Have you even looked at the first post? I had the Headzone...


 
   
  Not since I told you I read it about 200 pages ago. I honestly don't remember reading that part when I read the entire first post however long ago. Not sure how I missed it, lol.
   
  Wonder how the Smyth compares to it, but even still, from what I've read around it takes electrostats to fully take advantage of those technologies as dynamic headphones don't get the full effect out of it.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Heretic817

Just wanted to share my excitement. I just ordered all of the components including some upgrades from Mouser to build my own Objective 2 Amp.
  I also ordered the chassis, front plate, knob, and PCB from JDS Labs. All done shipping and all for about $80!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It'll be here Thursday. Couldn't resist.

Well, I'll be returning the Yuin G1A soon back to Head-Direct after that rattling and clipping. Movies were a major reason why I bought them, and they don't work for it. They do work fine for gaming and most music though. Dunno why they go haywire when watching movies.

If I manage to sell my SA-31, I'll put the ODAC for sale as well. Then I'll probably put the Magni/Modi up for sale and buy what I should've bought in the first place: the Audio-GD Compass 2 DAC/AMP.


----------



## lubczyk

1. What's wrong with your Magni/Modi combo and your Audio-GD SA-31?
   
  2. How much does the Audio-GD Compass 2 cost? I can't find a quote on the Audio-GD website.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

1. Nothing. Love both. The reason I wanna sell the SA-31 is because I want a volume knob on my main amp. The SA-31 uses volume buttons which take way too long to adjust for my taste. The SA-31 would be perfection if only it had a damn volume knob, really.

2. The Magni/Modi combo are great. This is a great setup. It's pretty neutral, but I prefer just a hint of warmth for my main headphones. Audio-GD sound is just that. I'm only selling it because I don't need them. I bought them on impulse. Couldn't resist their sexiness.

The Compass 2 is $500 (+shipping). Same price as the SA-31, except it's a DAC/AMP, whereas the SA-31 is just an amp. Because it's a DAC/AMP, I won't need the ODAC anymore. I'll put the ODAC for sale as soon as I sell the SA-31.

Lol, not even 30 minutes, and the Schiit stack is pending sale. XD


----------



## NamelessPFG

Holy crap, if I had $500 to spend on just a headphone amp, I'd already have an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or even an SRM-T1 by now...
   
  Ever thought about just picking up a vintage integrated receiver to use as a headphone amp? It may be quite bulky just for that purpose, but power shouldn't be a concern.
   
  Also, I thought you sold off your AKGs, but now here you are again, with the special edition K702. One of these days, I'll also have to audition the K701/K702/Q701 line (seeing as they're the common step up from the AD700), though I think I should have my SR-Lambda on hand for more in-depth comparisons.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Holy crap, if I had $500 to spend on just a headphone amp, I'd already have an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or even an SRM-T1 by now...
> 
> Ever thought about just picking up a vintage integrated receiver to use as a headphone amp? It may be quite bulky just for that purpose, but power shouldn't be a concern.
> 
> Also, I thought you sold off your AKGs, but now here you are again, with the special edition K702. One of these days, I'll also have to audition the K701/K702/Q701 line (seeing as they're the common step up from the AD700), though I think I should have my SR-Lambda on hand for more in-depth comparisons.


 
   
  I've been watching this.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Holy crap, if I had $500 to spend on just a headphone amp, I'd already have an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or even an SRM-T1 by now...
> 
> Ever thought about just picking up a vintage integrated receiver to use as a headphone amp? It may be quite bulky just for that purpose, but power shouldn't be a concern.
> 
> Also, I thought you sold off your AKGs, but now here you are again, with the special edition K702. One of these days, I'll also have to audition the K701/K702/Q701 line (seeing as they're the common step up from the AD700), though I think I should have my SR-Lambda on hand for more in-depth comparisons.




Nah. That and I'm trying to minimalize my equipment in size and quantity (well...except headphones themselves, lol). The Schiit stack will be gone soon, and hopefully so will the SA-31, though I'm downgrading...there. 




BTW, updated the first post with the Yuin G1A. Played a HELL of a lot today... like literally ALL damn day, so I'm all played out for a few days. Next comes some K702/65 time, and then the A40 testing/reviewing.







> *Yuin G1A* (*clip-on*)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It'll be here Thursday. Couldn't resist.


 
   
  Sweet!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nah. That and I'm trying to minimalize my equipment in size and quantity (well...except headphones themselves, lol). The Schiit stack will be gone soon, and hopefully so will the SA-31, though I'm downgrading...there.


 
   
  Wow, the Audio GD amps are ridiculously huge. 
   
  I think I prefer having the AMP and DAC seperated.  I trust the stand-alone DACs more then integrated ones. 
   
  If it were me, I would probably keep either the ODAC or Modi, then sell everything else and get a slightly warm solid state amp in the $300 range. 
   
  I'm still a little suspicious of Audio GD stuff because they seem to try and make amps with the longest signal path/most components possible.  Plus all the jumper/flavor switches and what not.  It all just seems a little snake oily, and it makes my spidey sense tingle.


----------



## Rambobbybob

Quote: 





sleinzel said:


> Buying them from amazon.com ain't an option?


 
   
  They don't send Mixamp or whatever that comes from Astro in France!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Wow, the Audio GD amps are ridiculously huge.
> 
> I think I prefer having the AMP and DAC seperated.  I trust the stand-alone DACs more then integrated ones.
> 
> ...




In the end, the changes in sound are incredibly subtle. Hell, the jumpers to warm up the sound... I couldn't really notice a changs. Still, the two A-GD devices I have owned were the best sounding. There is a richness to the sound that is so pleasant, they have made me a fan. I loved my NFB5. Seriously, if it had analog inputs, I would have never sold it. In fact, I was considering getting the upgraded NFB-5, and keeping the Magni as my Mixamp juicer.

I like having an amp/dac all in one. Less clutter and cable management. Actually, I'd keep the ODAC and use an A-GD amp alone, but there aren't any outside of the Compass 2, SA-31, that have analog inputs AND a volume knob. I wish they still sold:

http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/C-2SA/C2SAEN.htm

Then there's the power. There are no amps in their price range that has as much power as the A-GD amps. The Lyr, but I certainly don't want to deal with tubes.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Idk if you all knew about it at all, but I just wanted to give a shout out to MOG. It's the best I could find in terms of a subscription based streaming/downloading site with the highest quality. I realize there may be other sites with better quality like lossless, but, I don't know of any other way outside of buying the CD's.


----------



## Evshrug

fa11ou7 said:


> I hate to say it but if someone finds that diagram to hard to follow they probably shouldn't be on head-fi. Technology is only getting more complicated and to get the most out of what you have is, I feel, always going to take some tweaking to get it just right.




It's not that people couldn't figure it out. People had been figuring out PC gaming pretty easily for ages, yet consoles are way more popular gaming devices because it's a simple, streamlined, cheap setup with very little setup required. The same "convenience" perception applies to that diagram... The truth is the setup is simple as Xbox--->audio optical out--->surround processor--->amp---> headphone, with a mic optionally either plugged directly into the Xbox controller (like mine) or connected through the surround processor. The illusion of that diagram is that you'll have to find and buy a whole bunch of things, and that once you do, your gaming area will be absolutely cluttered with wires. I guess I'm mostly trying to say the diagram looks messy.



rambobbybob said:


> I think I will try the recon 3D ! You have convinced me ^^ As it's compatible with consoles and pc, and quite cheap, it's the best option for me!
> In France I can have the mixamp for 190 euros (so expensive... astro don't sell it without a headphone and I didn't find any website to import it), and the recon 3D for 60 euros...
> I will probably go with recon 3D, amp (I don't know which one for the moment but I will search) and the Q701!
> Thank you very much for yours replies!
> And not bad for the French




Glad to help, thanks for complimenting my French! Btw, you CAN use the Q701 right out of the Recon3D until you get a new amp and it will sound pretty good, but I thought the treble sounds could be harsh & painful sometimes. Once you do add an amp, you'll notice an improvement in detail, soundstage depth, bass authority, and a "natural" feeling that makes reacting to game sounds an instinct. Music ought to also grab your heart and either pin you to the floor or lift you up to soar in the sky!  at least it did for me 

I wrote a post on finding the best settings for the Recon3D in this thread, let me see if I can link it for you...



heretic817 said:


> Just wanted to share my excitement. I just ordered all of the components including some upgrades from Mouser to build my own Objective 2 Amp.
> I also ordered the chassis, front plate, knob, and PCB from JDS Labs. All done shipping and all for about $80!!




I'm excited for you too! I've never assembled electronics before (I don't think a computer build counts, you just plug things in together, no soldering required), but I think it would be a great project! What kind of "upgrades" did you go for?


----------



## Evshrug

Happy New year!


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Happy New year!


 
   
  Lol, same to you and everyone else.


----------



## ronswanson

namelesspfg said:


> I had a hunch that's what you meant by that earlier post about the three of us having something to look forward to from you soon, but now I'm sure.
> 
> This ought to be an interesting introduction to orthodynamics, and also a way to find out how much planar driver designs are similar-and different-between those that use electromagnetic forces and those that use electrostatic forces to move the diaphragm.
> 
> ...




Since you have plus, you can let it auto patch overnight. You just need to open the game, cancel the patch, and exit the game to get PS+ to recognize it.

As long as you have ps+ auto updates turned on ( somewhere in system settings), it'll install the patches overnight.


----------



## Noks

Quick question if no one minds, i have the AD700 plugged into my O2 amp and while it sounds great, the audio is inverted. Things i should hear from the left are on the right and vice versa. This wasn't a problem on PC when playing Diablo 3. I plugged the PS3's composite cable into female RCA -> 3.5 mm jack to 02 (red in red and white in white). I guess i'll have to try to invert those 2 but can't be bothered checking for now, so i though i'd ask here first. It's kind of a weird issue.


----------



## Heretic817

Where did your O2 come from


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In the end, the changes in sound are incredibly subtle. Hell, the jumpers to warm up the sound... I couldn't really notice a changs. Still, the two A-GD devices I have owned were the best sounding. There is a richness to the sound that is so pleasant, they have made me a fan. I loved my NFB5. Seriously, if it had analog inputs, I would have never sold it. In fact, I was considering getting the upgraded NFB-5, and keeping the Magni as my Mixamp juicer.


 
   
  Hmm.  You're welcome to borrow my M-stage some time to see how it compares to the Audio GD stuff...
   
  There are a couple more slightly warm solid state amps, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't want them to be too warm. I like the A-GD's warmth. It's still close to neutral. Just a very slight hint of warmth. Which shaves off just some top end sizzle without being what I'd consider smoothened out.


----------



## Noks

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Where did your O2 come from


 

 Comes from JDS Labs, but like i said, i dont recall having any audio problem on PC. So i don't think it's the amp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't want them to be too warm. I like the A-GD's warmth. It's still close to neutral. Just a very slight hint of warmth. Which shaves off just some top end sizzle without being what I'd consider smoothened out.


 
   
  I don't know if you can get _too warm_ with a solid state amp.  It seems like they're all still pretty close to neutral.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, no lie. The MOON op-amp I used on my NFB-5 was supposed to give it a tube warmth and smoothness. I couldn't tell the difference between it and the stock 'neutral-ish' op-amp.

Op-amp rolling seems like snake oil, really. If you really wanna change an amp's sound, just get a tube amp, which does sound quite different from SS amps.

Crap... I realize that I have to make a decision. Do I buy the Compass 2 early? If I don't, and I sell my SA-31, I will be left ampless for both my HE-400 and K702 Anniv until I get the Compass 2 which takes quite a bit of time.

But I'm afraid that if I get the Compass 2 and no one buys my SA-31, I will have a $500 amp that I'm not using... :frown:


----------



## Evshrug

Mad, the clear solution would be to put your amp up for sale, and ask to borrow an amp until the Compass arrives. Assuming you wouldn't be borrowing for too long, I have no idea how long Audio GD takes to send an amp after purchase. Worst comes to worst, you can survive on just the Mixamp's amp for a little while, and the arrival of your new amp will (hopefully) feel that much more like you've opened the gateways to heaven 

I might have to sell my Yamaha receiver soon, I'm strapped for cash and it's making me antsy to have $200 invested in perfectly good equipment that has been banished back to it's retail box just because I don't have space to set it up in my room. I'm not as good at selling stuff as you, Mad, I bet you would have an easier time selling the Recon3D than Nameless


----------



## preisner

Hey, guys! I currently own some ATH-M50 headphones coupled with a FiiO E7 DAC, I don't have any virtual surround capabilities. These headphones suits me very well for the everyday listening, but I was looking into getting more audio quality when gaming. So after reading this guide I thought about buying the *Philips SHP2500 *headphones, since it has a higher gaming rate than my M50 and fits my tight budget. My question is: Is it worth to buy this headphone for gaming? Even if I don't have any surround sound? Or I won't notice much of a difference compared to the M50s? Thanks!
   
  EDIT: Oh, I also own some Porta-Pro's, I don't know how they rate in gaming though.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Anybody have any recommendations for a portable amp to use with a future Android phone? It looks like octa-cores are coming to mobile phones O.o so maybe no need for an amp? Samsung will have their 1080p Amoled screens coming out sometime this year, so that's when I intend to buy. I'd like something as close to reference/neutral quality as possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

preisner said:


> Hey, guys! I currently own some ATH-M50 headphones coupled with a FiiO E7 DAC, I don't have any virtual surround capabilities. These headphones suits me very well for the everyday listening, but I was looking into getting more audio quality when gaming. So after reading this guide I thought about buying the *[COLOR=FF4400]Philips SHP2500[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have mentioned countless times, the scores are not to compare directly with one another. They are scores based on the headphone's own merits at their price point, etc.

The M50s slaughter the Philips SHP2500 is basically every single way.


----------



## Heretic817

noks said:


> Quick question if no one minds, i have the AD700 plugged into my O2 amp and while it sounds great, the audio is inverted. Things i should hear from the left are on the right and vice versa. This wasn't a problem on PC when playing Diablo 3. I plugged the PS3's composite cable into female RCA -> 3.5 mm jack to 02 (red in red and white in white). I guess i'll have to try to invert those 2 but can't be bothered checking for now, so i though i'd ask here first. It's kind of a weird issue.







noks said:


> Comes from JDS Labs, but like i said, i dont recall having any audio problem on PC. So i don't think it's the amp.




Hmm. So then it's not a problem with other sources? Can you verify that the left right reversal is only through the pc. Also take the amp out of the equation. Plug the HP directly to the PC sound card and see what happens.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Crap... I realize that I have to make a decision. Do I buy the Compass 2 early? If I don't, and I sell my SA-31, I will be left ampless for both my HE-400 and K702 Anniv until I get the Compass 2 which takes quite a bit of time.
> But I'm afraid that if I get the Compass 2 and no one buys my SA-31, I will have a $500 amp that I'm not using...


 
   
  You need something like an E10 as a backup AMP/DAC.  I basically never use my laptops internal soundcard as the E10 is always plugged in to it.  If I go anywhere with my laptop I can throw the E10 and a USB cord in the bag too.  It's worth it just to have a volume knob handy even if I'm leaned back from the computer.
   
  I usually use my KSC clip-ons with the E10, but I always use the M-stage + ODAC when I use the Q701s.
   
  Do you plug your clip-ons into the Audio GD amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. The SA-31 is powerful, but not like super 'gain'. The Magni is quite a bit louder despite being a fraction of the power.

The clip-ons sound lovely off it.


----------



## ruuku

soamusing777 said:


> Anybody have any recommendations for a portable amp to use with a future Android phone? It looks like octa-cores are coming to mobile phones O.o so maybe no need for an amp? Samsung will have their 1080p Amoled screens coming out sometime this year, so that's when I intend to buy. I'd like something as close to reference/neutral quality as possible.




Straight up amp? E12... (discussed earlier, page 681 of this thread and its own thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/620339/upcoming-fiio-flagship-portable-amp-mont-blanc-e12-updated-on-12-30-2012-final-photo) Though it really depends on how audio focused the phone market is in this next year. Personally I'd like to see phones with some sort of digital out as standard, but the added cost of components/licencing fees (looking at you apple) this probably won't turn into a reality. A phone with a good starting capacity flash storage (at least 32-64gb), Micro SD slot, and digital out would be budget portable bliss. 

I'm curious at your post though, how would a more powerful processor result in not needing an external amp? Pardon me for the assumption, but I figure the soul purpose of the amp would be to power higher impeadence headphones?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Straight up amp? E12... (discussed earlier, page 681 of this thread and its own thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/620339/upcoming-fiio-flagship-portable-amp-mont-blanc-e12-updated-on-12-30-2012-final-photo) Though it really depends on how audio focused the phone market is in this next year. Personally I'd like to see phones with some sort of digital out as standard, but the added cost of components/licencing fees (looking at you apple) this probably won't turn into a reality. A phone with a good starting capacity flash storage (at least 32-64gb), Micro SD slot, and digital out would be budget portable bliss.
> I'm curious at your post though, how would a more powerful processor result in not needing an external amp? Pardon me for the assumption, but I figure the soul purpose of the amp would be to power higher impeadence headphones?


 

 I was just being stupid. That's all. Yeah, I wish they came with a digital out as well. Well, I'll keep that amp in mind. Thank you.


----------



## SoAmusing777

K, I can stand it NO LONGER. These Q701's are great, but these bumps on the headband will be the end of me. My goodness. What the hell do I do about this?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> K, I can stand it NO LONGER. These Q701's are great, but these bumps on the headband will be the end of me. My goodness. What the hell do I do about this?


 
   
  Add padding.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/165#post_8047703
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/1755#post_8714977


----------



## warrenpchi

What's wrong with the bumps?  It's ribbed for your pleasure.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> What's wrong with the bumps?  It's ribbed for your pleasure.


 
   
  LOL


----------



## Evshrug

warrenpchi said:


> What's wrong with the bumps?  It's ribbed for your pleasure.





Like! Hahahaha!
I decided to go bare-banded for some reason today. I felt like, maybe the headband adjusted better and the earpads didn't slowly slide deeper down over my head like when I wear my baby seat wraps over it, but after an hour I just put the wrap back on :k701: I only need one wrap though, don't know what to do with the extra...


----------



## warrenpchi

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I only need one wrap though, don't know what to do with the extra...


 
   
  SoAmusing should so PM you about that.  TBH, I don't notice the bumps most of the time.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Add padding.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/165#post_8047703
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/1755#post_8714977


 
   
  Thanksss.
  Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> SoAmusing should so PM you about that.  TBH, I don't notice the bumps most of the time.


 
   I didn't even understand what he was talking about.
   
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> Like! Hahahaha!
> I decided to go bare-banded for some reason today. I felt like, maybe the headband adjusted better and the earpads didn't slowly slide deeper down over my head like when I wear my baby seat wraps over it, but after an hour I just put the wrap back on :k701: I only need one wrap though, don't know what to do with the extra...


 
   
  Huh?
  Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> What's wrong with the bumps?  It's ribbed for your pleasure.


 
  Gooooooood one.


----------



## Rexxen

What amp/dac combo would you recommend for a q701? I've seen magni/modi and o2 mentioned a couple times but I want to get the dsp from my soundcard (claro halo) which has an spdif out. Is it possible to route the dsp'd sound into a usb dac like the modi or odac? If not what would be a good spdif dac in that intro price range? Is an external dac even worth it I've already got a $150 soundcard? I'm at least pretty sure this soundcard is not driving my q701s too their potential because my old, easily driven, hd595's sound noticably better on some recordings. Not soundstage wise, but like the vocals aren't quite as brilliant sometimes?. On a side note I once rigged my hd595s with an old pas-2 tube preamp, which although far from ideal (heh), I oddly enjoyed it and from that I suspect I might also enjoy an actual headphone tube amp. Are intro headphone tube amps (like under 300) even worth getting? Any input would be nice.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





warrenpchi said:


> TBH, I don't notice the bumps most of the time.


 
   
  There ain't nothing wrong..........with a little bump 'n grind.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> There ain't nothing wrong..........with a little bump 'n grind.


 
   
  That's what's up. I heard someone recommend the Ultrasone HFi2400 over the Q701s as being able to do every single thing better than the Q701 at the same price. Say whattt?


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> Thanksss.
> Huh?
> Gooooooood one.




I covered the headband of my Q701 with seatbelt covers/wraps made for babies. Not sure what's hard to understand about that... It's just something soft and extra-cushiony to wrap over the headbands and bumps. 
I'd give you my spare if you lived nearby, but they're cheap enough that it wouldn't be worth the postage to mail them. Just go to a Toys "R" Us or something and look for seatbelt covers or wraps in the baby section.

Some of those rocking chairs looked like a lot of fun. Mostly I was impressed with how overwrought many baby products are.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I covered the headband of my Q701 with seatbelt covers/wraps made for babies. Not sure what's hard to understand about that... It's just something soft and extra-cushiony to wrap over the headbands and bumps.
> I'd give you my spare if you lived nearby, but they're cheap enough that it wouldn't be worth the postage to mail them. Just go to a Toys "R" Us or something and look for seatbelt covers or wraps in the baby section.
> Some of those rocking chairs looked like a lot of fun. Mostly I was impressed with how overwrought many baby products are.


 
   
  It was about another part. I don't care though. That's pretty cool actually, lol. Ah, well thank you. Great info! I'm returning these, but now leaning towards the Beyerdynamic DT990 premium.  About 30% are not ideal for the S-logic I found out.


----------



## Pilim

Hello everyone, I just created this account to ask you guys this: 
   
*Which one is better in sound quality Creative Aurvana Live! or Skullcandy SLYR?* And *how's Skullcandy SLYR's mic quality?*
   
I have my own mic (Samson meteor) but I'm just wondering.
   
Regards


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL is more refined, but I prefer the sound signature on the SLYR. The CAL has a warmer, more relaxed sound signature, and can come off a bit too thick for competitive gaming, while the SLYR maintains a better balance for all around.

 I didn't have any issues with the SLYR's mic, but I'm not very experienced when it comes to mic quality.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I heard someone recommend the Ultrasone HFi2400 over the Q701s as being able to do every single thing better than the Q701 at the same price. Say whattt?


 
   
  I've seen _one guy_ say that, and it's probably the same person you're thinking of.  He also said the Q701's soundstage and imaging was garbage.  Hmm....I'm just a _little bit_ skeptical_._


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds like a very skewed comparison. Not objective at all.

If you're gonna get a headphone just becauss of one person's opinions, you're making a mistake. You need to find a general consensus, as well as see objective opinions on the headphones. We all have different tastes, but you can at least see is more in tune with what you want in a headphone.

My guide is based off personal preference, but I try my best to give the good and the bad about each can.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've seen _one guy_ say that, and it's probably the same person you're thinking of.  He also said the Q701's soundstage and imaging was garbage.  Hmm....I'm just a _little bit_ skeptical_._


 
   
  That's right. I think I saw another say that in the same thread where you replied. It is the same person I'm sure. Ha, it's not. I know that from experience. I edited my post once again. I'm probably going with the Beyerdynamic DT990 premium headphones.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That sounds like a very skewed comparison. Not objective at all.
> If you're gonna get a headphone just becauss of one person's opinions, you're making a mistake. You need to find a general consensus, as well as see objective opinions on the headphones. We all have different tastes, but you can at least see is more in tune with what you want in a headphone.
> My guide is based off personal preference, but I try my best to give the good and the bad about each can.


 
   
  Yeah, I agree that it does. Nah, I'm not. I just did some more research. No worries. I know. Thank you for the guidance  Hey, the Yamaha RX-A710 should be plenty enough to drive even the 600ohm version right?


----------



## jump3r

can u  gv a review on siberia v2 frost.? i am really confused. should i buy these?


----------



## Pilim

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The CAL is more refined, but I prefer the sound signature on the SLYR. The CAL has a warmer, more relaxed sound signature, and can come off a bit too thick for competitive gaming, while the SLYR maintains a better balance for all around.
> I didn't have any issues with the SLYR's mic, but I'm not very experienced when it comes to mic quality.


 
   
Thank you for your answer! I'd like to ask you one more thing, which of those would you say is more comfy for long gaming sessions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SLYR. 

The CAL is comfy, but it has pleather pads, and they aren't very deep. For some people, they crush the ears.

The SLYR also isn't exactly fullsized, but I feel that if you work the pads a bit, you can fit your ears in them, and they will be over ear. They also have very dense velours, almost like memory foam. 

I love both in terms of comfort, but the Slyr has the edge for using velour, and not pleather.

Make no mistake, the CAL is a better sounding headphone overall, but they don't work for gaming as well as the SLYR, and the SLYR's tonal balance is better suited for gaming.


----------



## Aeonixz

what is the best headphones for sound whoring or accurate sound postioning?


----------



## Naingolann

*Audio-Technica AD700*
   
  Read the first post.


----------



## element72

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> So, most of the time, the U3 & Recon3D have equal surround potential, except with older games. But then, the Recon3D connects with either PC or Console, so it is more versatile, and the Recon3D also has the benefit that you can adjust settings on the PC and save them to use with your console.


 
  What do you mean by when you say they have equal surround potential? Are saying they sound similar?


----------



## Laike

Quote: 





rambobbybob said:


> [size=10pt]It seems that the Skullcandy Plyr 1 could be the perfect headset for me but I don’t really want to wait until April! What I really want is to be amazed by the sound I’m hearing while playing or watching movies, can someone enlighten me? [/size]


 
  If you plan on using in for PC, I would steer away from the PLYR1 if the USB DAC/Soundcard is anything like the PLYR2's. It was terrible, I had to hook it into my soundcard/mixamp setup before the PLYR2 started sounding good. PC gamers got the short end of the stick for the PLYR2s. They may surprise PC players and have a better performance for the much pricier PLYR1s. Who knows


----------



## Evshrug

element72 said:


> What do you mean by when you say they have equal surround potential? Are saying they sound similar?




No... I'm not saying they sound similar, at least tonally. I mean they both have the potential to let you hear "home theater" surround, simulated through stereo headphones. Your ears may experience the surround effect better with one or the other, they're two slightly different techniques to create the same effect. The Xonar U3 uses Dolby Headphone (2), and the Recon3D uses THX TruStudio Pro. 

Tonally, bass or treble response sound a bit different. The Recon3D probably also has a cleaner analogue signal. The other sonic difference is the Recon3D has the _extra_ potential that if you're playing a PC game that supports 3D surround audio like Bioshock, Battlefield 2, and Unreal3 engine games like Borderlands 2, with horizontal *and vertical* positional cues, you can configure the Recon3D (also X-Fi cards with CMSS-3D) to bring the third dimension to audio. Many games sadly do not account for vertical surround because home theaters just have a circle of speakers (not a sphere), for example I got frustrated a few times playing CoD4 last night when I tried to get the jump on someone around the corner, but they were upstairs.

 So, if you're playing a game with only 2D surround, _then_ the U3 and Recon3D both only have the "potential" to create 2D surround (neither can "fake" added vertical surround without the game providing info). 2D surround is still better than stereo IMO, and most of the time it works well enough. Sometimes games, like Halo since Halo 3, simulate height in the game software, along with environmental, occlusion, and distance effects. It's not perfect but it makes a difference.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I was reading about the DT880 earlier. This seems to be the most neutral headphone of the bunch. It's found on both Beyerdynamic's monitoring page and their studio page. Why would you recommend the DT990 over this?


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> I was reading about the DT880 earlier. This seems to be the most neutral headphone of the bunch. It's found on both Beyerdynamic's monitoring page and their studio page. Why would you recommend the DT990 over this?




Bass. I would personally choose the DT880 over the DT990 from what I've read, but I'd choose the Q701's soundstage over either, and I did


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Bass. I would personally choose the DT880 over the DT990 from what I've read, but I'd choose the Q701's soundstage over either, and I did


 
   
  Got it. Thank you. Should I go with the Premium or the Pro model of these then? I heard about the rear positioning not being so great coupled with Dolby HP, but how does it fare with Silent Cinema? Is the rear just bad across all HRTFs, or does it just not have as great synergy with Dolby HP?


----------



## Evshrug

I've only read about the DT880, so I don't know how it fares with other surround HRTFs (or ERTFs). Have you heard Silent Cinema yet? Mad's the only person I've read who has compared the DH effect with different headphones. That's not a dig on him, not at all, but we don't really have a comprehensive set of info. No idea what this headphone sounds like with that surround processing in this game with that amp... There simply are a ton of variables. It's not yet controlled science.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I've only read about the DT880, so I don't know how it fares with other surround HRTFs (or ERTFs). Have you heard Silent Cinema yet? Mad's the only person I've read who has compared the DH effect with different headphones. That's not a dig on him, not at all, but we don't really have a comprehensive set of info. No idea what this headphone sounds like with that surround processing in this game with that amp... There simply are a ton of variables. It's not yet controlled science.


 
   
  Me either, lol. Dolby HP is indeed an ERTF, yeah? Just thought I'd ask since you reminded me. Yes, I have. I own a RX-A710 receiver. Yeah, I was just curious. After EVEN FURTHER investigation. I may just keep the Q701's. They are pretty beast. Mmm, I'm just trying to find the right pad to put on the headband.


----------



## racefanmartin

Hey Mad Lust Envy,
   
  Are you going to do a separate review of the A40's 2013 ed.?


----------



## SoAmusing777

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CAINRK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 I ended up getting this, for anyone that is interested in modding the headband to make it more comfortable. According to my reading around of these, this seems to be the best one. I just hope the size is okay. Maybe I can cut it, and it will still be fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

racefanmartin said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> Are you going to do a separate review of the A40's 2013 ed.?




Yes, I'm testing those now. You can expect a 7.5 for fun and competitive, so far. Very good all rounder.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've seen _one guy_ say that, and it's probably the same person you're thinking of.  He also said the Q701's soundstage and imaging was garbage.  Hmm....I'm just a _little bit_ skeptical_._


 
   
  I can't say I've seen anyone say such things about the Q701 here on Head-Fi, but I did run into someone who didn't like the soundstage and imaging of the Stax Lambda series and the AD700 of all things. Said he didn't like the really diffused imaging, compared to typical Sennheisers.
   
  Quote: 





aeonixz said:


> what is the best headphones for sound whoring or accurate sound postioning?


 
   
  For me, the Stax Lambda series has been the best I've tried, if money is no object. There's a reason Smyth Research bundles a basic Lambda setup (SR-207 + SRM-252S amp, IIRC) with their Realiser systems.
   
  But the AD700 will still get you most of the way there for much less money spent.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I can't say I've seen anyone say such things about the Q701 here on Head-Fi, but I did run into someone who didn't like the soundstage and imaging of the Stax Lambda series and the AD700 of all things. Said he didn't like the really diffused imaging, compared to typical Sennheisers.


 
   
  Lol, good to know. How does that seat belt cover look for my intended use?


----------



## ruuku

Fuzzy... Might want to look at something more breathable.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CAINRK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 I ended up getting this, for anyone that is interested in modding the headband to make it more comfortable. According to my reading around of these, this seems to be the best one. I just hope the size is okay. Maybe I can cut it, and it will still be fine.


 
   
  I couldn't find the 2012 AKG Q701 under the make and model year :/


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Fuzzy... Might want to look at something more breathable.


 
   
  Oh well, too late. Already purchased. Lol. http://www.ehow.com/list_6128508_sheepskin-effects.html <<< It pays to do your research. I was mainly asking because I was concerned about the size.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I couldn't find the 2012 AKG Q701 under the make and model year :/


 
   
  Umm, what?


----------



## Laike

Just got my DX mic in today. For the price, hard to beat, unfortunately mines has something loose inside that's rattling around when I move. Picks up well, though its a bit quiet. I may try the modmic next when they release a mute version.


----------



## Evshrug

laike said:


> Just got my DX mic in today. For the price, hard to beat, unfortunately mines has something loose inside that's rattling around when I move. Picks up well, though its a bit quiet. I may try the modmic next when they release a mute version.




Yeah, the pickup isn't very sensitive, especially compared to the Turtle Beach mics. The TB's are so sensitive that I constantly hear fans and other people in the room who are talking, even sometimes the earpiece audio. The TB's overdo it, but my mic has to compete with that. I tried putting my E5 amp in-line to try to control the gain, but it didn't work at all that way.

It's still better than the Xbox mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's odd. Mine picks up my voice very easily.


----------



## Evshrug

It picks up the sound well, just quieter than the turtle beaches. Edit: the DX may be louder than the brand I got, but when I first got it people commented that they heard me louder and clearer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So Head-Direct sells the Yuin clips alone for $10 (17 after shipping). I just need to know how many pairs come in the package, because one pair for $17 is a bit steep. I could just get another KSC75 for less than that and nab the clips.

I prefer the Yuin clips though. They feel quite a bit better than the KSC35 clips. I wanna use them for my KSC35.

Been using the 75 clips on my 35s, and I'm quite digging the sound. Its not as warm as the stock hard clips, but still fuller than the KSC75 stock. Ironically, I'm digging the KSC75 with the 35's clips. It adds that warmth the 75s were missing, but loses the supreme comfort.

The smooth plastic Yuin clips feels better and easy to wear than the 35 clips. I just dont wanna order the clips and they only have one pair. Im gonna bend them again to put the drivers closer, but I fear that if I snap the ONE pair, I will be out $17.


----------



## tmaxx123

racefanmartin said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> Are you going to do a separate review of the A40's 2013 ed.?




2013 a40 is decent for competitive gaming. The fun factor wasn't there for me. And for black Ops 2, I found myself having to really listen for directional cues with the a40. Whereas, with my mmx 300 cues were alot more evident.

 Mmx300's are incredibly fun. Crazy highs, and explosions have a very tight punch to them. The headset is actually capable of creating sound pressure, probably due the nice seal it makes. The a40 is a bit more comfortable, but they feel so cheap in comparison to the Beyerdynamic. 

For the price, the a40 bundle is a good deal. I wouldn't buy the headset standalone, however.


----------



## Laike

I've been known to be normally pretty soft spoken when behind a microphone. If find if I really project my voice the microphone has no problem picking me up. I couldn't attach it to my headphone cable as suggested because the movement of my head causes the microphone to audibly rattle. 
   
  Mind you, my Mixamp is the old Pro version which has known to be way overkill on background noise filtering to the point of skewing audio slightly. I have to switch to my soundcard's microphone input when I record things on the PC. 
   
  Anyone know if the Modmic has a user replaceable cable?


----------



## Brown Intruder

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol it's okay. That's what I'm here for. Don't worry. I think the E09K is a great amp, and it will suit your needs just fine. I'm actually sad I don't have it anymore. I was very impressed with it. My OLD E9 had a noisy volume knob (when adjusting volume), as well as a faulty 3.5mm input *(not that anyone should use it anyways, as it had an atrociously high 43ohm output impedance*). The E9K I had was just perfect. Very black background, and pure, energetic sound.
> http://www.amazon.com/Little-Dot-standard-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00A2QM5O6/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&qid=1356615983&sr=8-47&keywords=headphone+tube+amp
> Wonder how the Little Dot I+ sounds. Power specs seem pretty similar to the E9K, but a tube hybrid. $88 too. $109 on their main website.


 
   
  I have just received the E9 that I canacelled. Seeing what you wrote MLE and it appears that E9 only has the 3.5mm input, do you think that it is worth returning the E9 for the E9K??
   
  Thanks in advance


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think you're misunderstanding me. I meant 3.5mm HEADPHONE input, which you should avoid using. It also has a 6.3mm (1/4" input.), which is much better and is 10ohm output impedance.

The 3.5mm input on the back is perfectly fine.

And yes, I believe the E9K is better than the E9. Full size RCA inputs on the back are more sturdy and last longer than 3.5mm jacks. The front looks better too, with just one headphone jack, and the aux in/line in switch. The E9 I owned had a noisy volume knob, while the E9K was perfectly silent. Sound-wise, they should be identical.


----------



## Brown Intruder

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think you're misunderstanding me. I meant 3.5mm HEADPHONE input, which you should avoid using. It also has a 6.3mm (1/4" input.), which is much better and is 10ohm output impedance.
> The 3.5mm input on the back is perfectly fine.
> And yes, I believe the E9K is better than the E9. Full size RCA inputs on the back are more sturdy and last longer than 3.5mm jacks. The front looks better too, with just one headphone jack, and the dock in/line in switch.


 
  lol definately misunderstanding you. I might as well keep it then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the E9K should sound identical to the E9. The biggest improvements is functionality of the front and the change of 3.5mm inputs to RCA (which are the same thing, just different cable needed). Also, the E9 is rated just a smidge more powerful than the E9K for some reason. They use the same internal amp, etc. Realistically, they are the same in power.


----------



## seb UK

Just been watching the start of Prometheus on DT990's.. WOW. Really glad I got these now


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For those interested in what I feel of the K702 Annies (first impressions)

Just got the K702 Anniversary.

*Holy balls.*

These are gorgeous. Prior to these, I owned the white K701 and white Q701, The finish on those was almost like a toilet white. Porcelain. The Annies though? The finish is matte, and looks AMAZING. I mean, I thought I was used to how the K/Q's looked, then I saw these... I'm blown away just looking at them.

Then I put them on my head, no sound... just... OMG. I always raved about the Steelseries Siberia and their self adjustment. Those were nearly perfect. I wish the cups were bigger on those (they were small and not deep.)

The K701 and Q701 had similar self adjustment, but for whatever reason, they were always fully extended and hella tight on my head. Then there was the bumps on the headband that were torturous. Pure torture until you wore them long enough to not mind them, but they never truly disappear.

Here comes the K702 Annies. Not only did they do away with the bumps, but the headband no longer pulls down on my head. I wonder if it's because the bumps are gone, leaving more space for just enough extension to not make them so tight. The cups clamp so lightly, I almost thought these were Audio-Technicas for a moment. They clamp just tight enough to feel secure, but it's light.

Speaking of light I mean, these babies are LIGHT. I mean, wearing the HE400 next to them is...well, they surely feel like bricks on the head next to the Annies.

HOLY COW. These ARE the most comfortable full-sized headphones I have owned, bar none. *It is indeed perfection*.

Comfort...10/10

These are IT.

On to the most important part...sound.

Before I start, let me state that I do NOT suffer from new toy syndrome. If I'm not impressed, I will be the first to say it. I will be quick to mention the pros and cons in a headphone's sound.

So what did I hear when I first turned on the music?



Warmth. Clarity. Openness. Refinement. 

This is surely a refined Q701. Not only does it sound fuller than I remember of the Q701, but the bass. Dear god... the bass. What. The. CRAP? These have FANTASTIC bass. I will tell you right now, this is the most balanced headphone I have heard that ALSO has a satisfying amount of bass. The DT880 is also incredibly balanced with bass, but they have that treble peak. These DO NOT.

I am absolutely MINDBLOWN by the Annies. I paid $429 for these... and I will tell you all right now, that yes, it's worth it over the Q701, and I would seriously choose these over the HE-400 if I could only own one. The HE-400 is amazing, simply amazing, but the K702 Annies has this balance between fun and straight business without any glaring faults that make them so damn enticing.

This is one of those times that I can't find anything bad to say about the sound.

They really DO sound like a mix between the Q701 and HD650. It is a perfect blend. Just.... lovely.

Stay tuned.


My faves have changed...in order.

D7000
K702 Annies
HE-400
HD650
HE-4


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
You... You... You jerk T_T
Bwah haugh hah hah huuuuh *sob*

I mean, I believe you, and it's not your fault AKG sought improvement, but... You know what I'm getting at.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, I... I don't even wanna say those things!

The Q701 is fantastic, you know this, and I know this. But the Annies... man... I would seriousluy put the Q701 for sale and get the Annies. I am NOT kidding you.


----------



## Evshrug

Well. I might just have to suck it up and go crawling back to working for Panera.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd be upset too. Improvements are expected but damn, AKG just dealt a HEAVY blow to everything else in the price range. It has everything going for it. I can't find ANY issues...AT ALL. I'm supposed to be sleeping. I don't want to. They MAKE me wanna listen.

One major thing I notice, covering the cups doesn't do almost anything to impact the sound...

I think I found my Audio Nirvana...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For those interested in what I feel of the K702 Annies (first impressions)
> Just got the K702 Anniversary.
> *Holy balls.*
> These are gorgeous. Prior to these, I owned the white K701 and white Q701, The finish on those was almost like a toilet white. Porcelain. The Annies though? The finish is matte, and looks AMAZING. I mean, I thought I was used to how the K/Q's looked, then I saw these... I'm blown away just looking at them.
> ...


 
   
  Sounds like you like them, lol. Can't wait to see your gaming comments on them 
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

These have everything I can possibly ask for. The comfort, the openness, the clarity, the warmth, the bass. This is the one.


----------



## Grymok

DAMN!!!!: those K702 anniversary, sounds pretty awesome!.
  But pretty damn Overpriced here in EU, 580 EURO :O.
   
  How does the Annie compare to the normal ones?
  Getting curious about these 2 pieces.
  My neck is pretty vulneable for headsets/headphones. My neck has begun to heart after wearing the panasonic HTF-600, for several hours of gaming :S.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> These have everything I can possibly ask for. The comfort, the openness, the clarity, the warmth, the bass. This is the one.




Are you at all curious about listening to the Annies (like the nickname, I always called my sister that and she hated it ) side by side with your old Q701? I wonder if your amp may have helped, equalizing the difference between the Q701 and the Annie sonically. Straws, I grasp them.

I'm curious what Chico will say when he reads this 

Oh, and Grymok, the Q701 has never been a bother for it's weight. Really, quite comfortable except for the headband bumps.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad!
I just realized something!
You, Chico, Nameless.

Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond, and James May.

It works so well, it makes me sad I don't fit in there :/


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad!
> I just realized something!
> You, Chico, Nameless.
> Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond, and James May.
> It works so well, it makes me sad I don't fit in there :/


 
   
  I hate to admit it, but I don't understand the comparison you're making. Who are those people? (Second list of names, of course.)
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> These have everything I can possibly ask for. The comfort, the openness, the clarity, the warmth, the bass. This is the one.


 
   
  Now I don't know if I want to audition the K702 65th or the HE-400 more...not that I need to, since I've already found _the one_ for me at this point, but I'm glad that you've found _the one_ for you, especially after going through so many headphones.
   
  Everyone has such differently-shaped heads and ears and preferences in sound presentation that it's unlikely that most of them ever find _the one_ headphone that suits them best. I guess I lucked out in terms of getting _the one_ as my second serious headphone purchase.
   
  Of course, some people don't realise that they've had _the one_ all along until they've tried countless other headphones, like me.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Where did you buy these for $429? I only see them available in the Amazon marketplace for $500.


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> I hate to admit it, but I don't understand the comparison you're making. Who are those people? (Second list of names, of course.)
> 
> 
> Now I don't know if I want to audition the K702 65th or the HE-400 more...not that I need to, since I've already found _the one_ for me at this point, but I'm glad that you've found _the one_ for you, especially after going through so many headphones.
> ...




What are you driving your Lambdas with Nameless?

-Erik


----------



## FlavioWolff

is there a big difference between 7.1 and 5.1 dolby headphone? I have a Xonar DG, but it only supports 5.1.
  Thanks!


----------



## ruuku

namelesspfg said:


> I hate to admit it, but I don't understand the comparison you're making. Who are those people? (Second list of names, of course.)
> 
> 
> Now I don't know if I want to audition the K702 65th or the HE-400 more...not that I need to, since I've already found _the one_ for me at this point, but I'm glad that you've found _the one_ for you, especially after going through so many headphones.
> ...




Hosts of Top Gear (BBC), Probably the most celebrated car show to date. If you've never seen it, and your at least remotely interested in cars, then I'd highly recommend it. I believe that Netflix streaming service has it, as well as some episodes (free for prime members) on Amazon.

MLE.... damn I thought that the anniversarys' were just a rehash of the 7XX line. I'd really like to get them... but the price.... One question though, with the added bass, has the soundstage changed any?



flaviowolff said:


> is there a big difference between 7.1 and 5.1 dolby headphone? I have a Xonar DG, but it only supports 5.1.
> Thanks!




Mainly just marketing speak... moving from a 5.1 AX Decoder to a (supposedly 7.1) Mixamp there was no sonic changes.


----------



## mata944

Hello guys, I just have a quick question.  I have the turtle beach earforce dss that I use with my xbox.  I plan on getting the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm.  I currently have a fiio e11 that I use with my ipod, though I understand from the guide that a portable amp isn't recommended.  Which of the three amps here would you guys recommend with the TB DSS and the dt990's?  Or would I do at least ok powering the DT990's with my fiio e11 through the dss?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mata944 said:


> Hello guys, I just have a quick question.  I have the turtle beach earforce dss that I use with my xbox.  I plan on getting the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm.  I currently have a fiio e11 that I use with my ipod, though I understand from the guide that a portable amp isn't recommended.  Which of the three amps here would you guys recommend with the TB DSS and the dt990's?  Or would I do at least ok powering the DT990's with my fiio e11 through the dss?


 
  The E11 should have no problem driving the 250-ohm headphones (My E11 can easily).
  Just might want in invest in a few spare batteries (BL-5B) and maybe a simple battery recharger.


----------



## mata944

Thank you for the quick reply   
  Do you think I would hear a large improvement through one of the amps listed in the guide?  Money isn't really an issue here as all three are within my budget.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mata944 said:


> Thank you for the quick reply
> Do you think I would hear a large improvement through one of the amps listed in the guide?  Money isn't really an issue here as all three are within my budget.


 
  Not sure how much cash you would have to spend to make a noticeable difference.
  The E11 is a sweet little amp.
  I would think an O2 (Objective 2) headphone amp. would be nice, just because you would not need to swap batteries.


----------



## mata944

Ok. Thank you for the replies again.


----------



## Pilim

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The SLYR.
> The CAL is comfy, but it has pleather pads, and they aren't very deep. For some people, they crush the ears.
> The SLYR also isn't exactly fullsized, but I feel that if you work the pads a bit, you can fit your ears in them, and they will be over ear. They also have very dense velours, almost like memory foam.
> I love both in terms of comfort, but the Slyr has the edge for using velour, and not pleather.
> Make no mistake, the CAL is a better sounding headphone overall, but they don't work for gaming as well as the SLYR, and the SLYR's tonal balance is better suited for gaming.


 

Thank you so much for your help, I made my choice!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> What are you driving your Lambdas with Nameless?
> -Erik


 
   
  The included SRD-7/SB transformer box, plus an Onkyo TX-SV515PRO receiver that my stepfather was leaving boxed up and unused in the closet otherwise. That latter part is what helped keep the cost down, as these transformer boxes need speaker amps to work, and those are much more common than dedicated Stax amps.
   
  For my SR-202 impressions, I had a little SRM-212 direct-drive amp that came with it.
   
  Ideally, I would have used the same amplification system for both when forming my impressions, but the different bias voltages involved prevented that, and dual-bias amps like the SRM-1/Mk2 Pro and SRM-T1 would have cost me more than each of those Lambda setups did by themselves. (Roughly $300-550, depending on how the used market goes.)


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> The included SRD-7/SB transformer box, plus an Onkyo TX-SV515PRO receiver that my stepfather was leaving boxed up and unused in the closet otherwise. That latter part is what helped keep the cost down, as these transformer boxes need speaker amps to work, and those are much more common than dedicated Stax amps.
> 
> For my SR-202 impressions, I had a little SRM-212 direct-drive amp that came with it.
> 
> Ideally, I would have used the same amplification system for both when forming my impressions, but the different bias voltages involved prevented that, and dual-bias amps like the SRM-1/Mk2 Pro and SRM-T1 would have cost me more than each of those Lambda setups did by themselves. (Roughly $300-550, depending on how the used market goes.)




Did you post your comparison on the forums? Trying to decide which way I want to go. So far from your comments, looks like I can't go wrong with the Lambda Pro. Have you ever listened to any of the newer (round) models?

-Erik


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> I hate to admit it, but I don't understand the comparison you're making. Who are those people? (Second list of names, of course.)




Like Ruuku said, the hosts of the car enthusiast show "Top Gear" from BBC. James May is a big fan of classic cars and likens several old fashioned things as "the proper way to do it" yet can be a bit into the tech of things, and reminds me of you a few ways. Hammond is very good-natured and likes when things work out, but is content with his choices (and cars) in a way that reminds me of how Chico is happy with his Q701's. Jeremy Clarkson is the guy whipping around the track in a Ford GT or Lamborghini shouting "POWER!!!!" and always looking for the latest and most meaty gear. There are other small things that remind me of each of you, but it's hard to pick them out individually and sum them up.


----------



## calpis

Good thing I passed on buying MLE's white Q's


----------



## POKeefe

Does anyone have any recommendations on a USB Sound Card/External DAC that would be a good pairing with the AD700's? I have a ASROCK z77e-ITX motherboard for reference and primarily play CS:GO. Just want to upgrade from the onboard sound.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Looks like I'll be returning the Q701's to Amazon. I never thought I'd pay in the $400-500 range just for a pair of headphones, but I think that's as far as I will ever go, $500. Half a grand. Man.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> These have everything I can possibly ask for. The comfort, the openness, the clarity, the warmth, the bass. This is the one.


 
   
   
  Oh man....that's what I wanted to hear.
   
  Needless to say....


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Did you post your comparison on the forums? Trying to decide which way I want to go. So far from your comments, looks like I can't go wrong with the Lambda Pro. Have you ever listened to any of the newer (round) models?
> -Erik


 
   
  I've mentioned my impressions off-handedly here and there, but never made my own thread about them.
   
  Actually, I'm not so sure about the Lambda Pro in terms of sound presentation; there are reports of recessed mids, and I'm not sure I'd like that given my preferences, reinforced by common opinions that the Normal bias Lambda's greatest strength is its midrange. I'm not sure if EQ will totally account for this; it didn't quite do it on the SR-202 due to that additional "grain" to the sound, but maybe the Lambda Pro will fare better. I won't be able to tell for sure 'til I get my hands on a set. If you read up on the various Lambda iterations (Wikiphonia would be a good start), you'll find that people have different impressions of their sound signatures.
   
  However, the Lambda Pro still uses the vintage headband/arc design with lower clamping force that I prefer for comfort reasons, making it a good choice for long-term listening. The SR-202 and SR-303 (which I don't talk about as much because the right-side driver wasn't functioning optimally and I didn't have a Pro bias amp at the time) make their presence known after a few hours due to the clamping force, though the SR-303 was less bothersome because of the softer pads. Then there's the SR-507, which clamp even harder if spritzer's impressions are anything to go by.
   
  I haven't had the fortune of listening to the flagship Omega-series models (SR-Omega, SR-007, SR-009); those cost way too much, and there aren't any owners who would let me audition them around here, to my knowledge. Nor have I listened to the pre-Lambda models like the SR-X/Mk3, SR-5, and SR-3, which have smaller diaphragms and generally aren't considered quite as good, but also usually sell for under $200 with an SRD-5 or SRD-6 transformer box and regarded quite competitive for that price range. (For music, anyway; I'm not sure how they fare in gaming since other people say the soundstage is significantly smaller than a typical Lambda and most people don't game with Stax, but then again, the Lambda is about as large as soundstage gets for a conventional headphone that doesn't try to mount the drivers perpendicular to your ears like a Sigma, PFR-V1 or K1000.)
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Like Ruuku said, the hosts of the car enthusiast show "Top Gear" from BBC. James May is a big fan of classic cars and likens several old fashioned things as "the proper way to do it" yet can be a bit into the tech of things, and reminds me of you a few ways. Hammond is very good-natured and likes when things work out, but is content with his choices (and cars) in a way that reminds me of how Chico is happy with his Q701's. Jeremy Clarkson is the guy whipping around the track in a Ford GT or Lamborghini shouting "POWER!!!!" and always looking for the latest and most meaty gear. There are other small things that remind me of each of you, but it's hard to pick them out individually and sum them up.


 
   
  Top Gear, huh? Watched a few episodes every now and then, but not nearly enough to recognize the hosts.
   
  But your comparison does make sense, now that you explain it. I am pretty technical-minded and do have an outspoken opinion for classic games and other older aspects of tech, though I don't outright reject all of the new stuff.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad!
> I just realized something!
> You, Chico, Nameless.
> Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond, and James May.
> It works so well, it makes me sad I don't fit in there :/


 
   
  I can _definitely _see NamelessFPG as James May.


----------



## SoAmusing777

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf - Here is an article I think anyone here at Head-fi should read. 10 common lies in audio. I loved the cable one, as that has set me straight. Yayyy, no need to buy an uber expensive cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I will respond to all of you soon enough.

News, just ordered the Audio-GD Compass 2. This is gonna be my last amp/dac I get for a long while as far as main rig goes.

I spoke to Kingwa, and was told they'd refund me $400 for returning the SA-31. I have to pay shipping which hurts, so I will be getting like $300 and change after all is said and done, but I'll take the hit. I will hopefully sell the ODAC soon after.

So it will be:


Compass 2 amp/dac
K702 Annie
HE400

Sigh, took a long time but looks like im settling. I MAY sell the HE400 if the Annie satisfies me enough for my bass heavy music. I wanna be absolutely sure, as the HE400 is more energetic, which may make it worthwhile keeping for certain situations.. All I do know is that the Annie has everything I could ask for in a balanced can including the amazing comfort, so I will be very surprised if I havs an urge to ever give it up.

If I decide on selling the HE400, I will send it out to you guys first, and ask the last person to have it to hold on to it until I sell it, and ask them to ship it to the buyer, that way I dont have to pay shipping twice.

Anyone mind being the one to hold it until I sell it, and then you ship to buyer? Calpis, Nameless, Chico, Evs?

Again, this is assuming I sell it. I need to spend some time with both to see if its moot to own both. Regardless, the Annie stays. Of course in the future, I will send out the Annie to you guys, assuming I have something in the meanwhile, lol.


----------



## calpis

heh, I don't mind <3
   
  You can always retry my "bass modded" 2900 again


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> heh, I don't mind <3


 
   
  x2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico in particular, when I do send out the Annie, I wanna know if its indeed the pads that do all the magic. If so, I might get some spare Q701 pads just for a different flavor, lol.

The Q701 is still more detail oriented and airy, whilst the Annie is more musical and warm. So its not like the Annie and Q701 are clashing directly. Of course, I rather have someone A/B test them.

All I know is that that comparing the Annie to the HE400 has shown them both to be quite warm and musical. I didn't get as much an impression of the Q701 being THIS musical, so the difference should be obvious.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico in particular, when I do send out the Annie, I wanna know if its indeed the pads that do all the magic. If so, I might get some spare Q701 pads just for a different flavor, lol.


 
   
  I want to know about that too. 
   
  If it _is_ just the pads, I could maybe get a hold of the anniversary pads somehow and just use those on the Q701... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Or just get the K702/65 and sell the Q701, then get regular K702 pads...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But the headband, Chico... DAT HEADBAND. The Annie's headband. I'd pay $100 just for that, lol.


----------



## chicolom

What's the serial number on yours?  I don't know how long it takes them to go through 3,000 headphones. 
   
  My Q701s are 04165.    / 
  
   
  It seems like if AKG see's they get positive reviews on the K705/65 they should just introduce the changes into the regular x70x.  It's not like the the new headband and pads themselves are limited.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

0935. 

I would be scared to wait, after having heard it.


----------



## calpis

Welp, I guess it's time to sell some of my headphones


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DO IT! The HE-400... I have a feeling you'd love them. You'll find out soonish.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I've mentioned my impressions off-handedly here and there, but never made my own thread about them.
> 
> Actually, I'm not so sure about the Lambda Pro in terms of sound presentation; there are reports of recessed mids, and I'm not sure I'd like that given my preferences, reinforced by common opinions that the Normal bias Lambda's greatest strength is its midrange. I'm not sure if EQ will totally account for this; it didn't quite do it on the SR-202 due to that additional "grain" to the sound, but maybe the Lambda Pro will fare better. I won't be able to tell for sure 'til I get my hands on a set. If you read up on the various Lambda iterations (Wikiphonia would be a good start), you'll find that people have different impressions of their sound signatures.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok, I'm confused, I thought I had read you previously say that you have the Lambda Pro model, which model do you have again?
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone mind being the one to hold it until I sell it, and then you ship to buyer? Calpis, Nameless, Chico, Evs?
> Again, this is assuming I sell it. I need to spend some time with both to see if its moot to own both. Regardless, the Annie stays. Of course in the future, I will send out the Annie to you guys, assuming I have something in the meanwhile, lol.




MOI!? Well, I'd be flattered, camping my front door, ready with kid gloves and all the shipping materials I've saved from Xmas stuff, lol! It would be amazing because I didn't expect to be able to slake my curiosity about more headphones while I also have my/your Q's. (XD Calpis!)

I know expensive amps are harder to sell, but did you try listing your amp on the F/S forum?



pokeefe said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations on a USB Sound Card/External DAC that would be a good pairing with the AD700's? I have a ASROCK z77e-ITX motherboard for reference and primarily play CS:GO. Just want to upgrade from the onboard sound.




One of the lovable things about the AD700 is that it's amping requirements are low, so pretty much any USB DAC/amp combo ought to do well.

The Xonar U3 and X-Fi Go! are both cheap and adequate with Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D respectively. If you don't mind stereo or headphone surround through software, FiiO recently made a very nice upgrade to the E07k Amp/DAC combo (it's crazy how similar it is to the E17 now). My Recon3D USB mates very nicely with my AD700, the surround and bass boost work very well. The Recon3D sounds very clean, probably cleaner than the X-Fi Go! or Xonar U3, plus it has a 3.5mm input and optical input in case you want to connect other sources, like a console or MP3 player. NamelessPFG has one for sale at a very nice discount.


----------



## Jhalf

All, I have a thread here, that I would love you guys double checking:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/644291/high-end-computer-audio-gaming-setup
   
  My main questions are I am about to pull the trigger on a DT990/600 and LD MK IV for gaming. Dolby headphone will come from Xonar DG, to an external DAC through optical, to the MK IV, to the Headphone.
   
   
  I am glad I read this because now the Annies have intrigued me. Where were you seeing them for cheaper than 500? Are they worth the extra 120 over the DT990s?
   
  I dont competitively game, but want a nice high end setup, with a nice fun factor.
   
  edit: The one draw back i hear from people with the 990 is the treble and high end, Thats why i am planning on tubing them to mellow them out. Figured this would be a perfect pairing. Switched from the Valhalla to the MKIV because apparently the Valhalla isnt too warm.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Just waiting on some more opinions of the K702 Annie, as I haven't been able to find much info on them, besides the fact that they sound amazing, lol. I had two problems with the Q701, the headband and the bass. If these fix that, then, maybe they are worth almost $300 more. Dunno. Is there a better option for $500? Is the bass and the headband all that is changed sonically? Do they have more of a soundstage or anything compared to the Q?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I will respond to all of you soon enough.
> News, just ordered the Audio-GD Compass 2. This is gonna be my last amp/dac I get for a long while as far as main rig goes.
> I spoke to Kingwa, and was told they'd refund me $400 for returning the SA-31. I have to pay shipping which hurts, so I will be getting like $300 and change after all is said and done, but I'll take the hit. I will hopefully sell the ODAC soon after.
> So it will be:
> ...


 
   
  Glad they gave you a good deal on the SA-31, though as usual with these kind of transactions, shipping really cuts into your wallet, especially with something as heavy as an amplifier.
   
  calpis claimed holding first, so I'll let him do it. Besides, it sounds like he might actually be the HE-400 buyer in the end!
   
  I'll be surprised if you actually _do_ settle on audio equipment this time, though. I thought for sure you'd call it off at the D7000...then the HE-400...and yeah, it just kept going from there with your never-ending quest for gaming audiophile headphone knowledge. There's also the chance that sending over my Stax setup for a review (when the whole amplifier thing ceases to be an issue) could bring about some unforeseen revelations and even more wheeling and dealing...
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Ok, I'm confused, I thought I had read you previously say that you have the Lambda Pro model, which model do you have again?
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I have the SR-Lambda, the original Normal bias model released in 1979. This was Stax's flagship at the time (unless you count the earlier SR-Sigma as their flagship), and was a successful enough design to warrant using the same basic design to this day, albeit with modifications over the years.
   
  I should note that this one isn't quite stock, as the drivers have been rebuilt with slightly thicker diaphragms (2.5 microns instead of the original 2 microns) and there's no mineral wool in the earcups (got it that way), but I can't imagine it being dramatically different from a stock SR-Lambda in sound presentation. Especially that midrange...oh yes, that glorious midrange.
   
  Still, I'll know for sure if I ever do get my hands on a stock SR-Lambda. My wallet won't permit it for the time being, especially with the competition on eBay bidding things up above the usual levels for Stax equipment in general, but one of these days, I'll get one and keep it as a backup set.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

What did you not like about its bass specifically?


----------



## jump3r

CAN ANY1 DO A REVIEW ON STEELSERIES SIBERIA FROST


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> What did you not like about its bass specifically?


 
   
  I was gone for a moment, or I would have replied to you sooner. The bass is just lacking quantity and depth for me. The Q701 has the quality of bass for sure, but it's missing the others.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Well, looks like the K702 Annie is king, err, queen of kings? DT880 - Balanced with bass, but treble is a bit much, with the Annie not having that treble high. 1 for Annie. Senn's HD650 - More laid back. Q701 lacking bass. Annie a perfect blend of the two. 2 for Annie. Well, the Tesla T1 by Beyerdynamic would seem competition enough for the Annie, but it's a $1000 headphone, which I would never pay, as well as others I'm sure. http://www.overclock.net/t/1191934/upgraded-from-ad700-to-akg-q701-wow-review - Scroll down to a post by Chinesekiwi. Look at this for a graph of the T1, Q701, and the DT880. I'd like to see a graph of the T1 and K702 Annie, but regardless, they are really close I'm sure. 3 for Annie? It sure seems like this is the best neutral/balanced headphone there is, especially for the price. Definitely the best for $500 and down? Opinions?


----------



## Hailin

jump3r said:


> CAN ANY1 DO A REVIEW ON STEELSERIES SIBERIA FROST



No reason to yell. I am sure If someone has heard them they would have said something.

Mad do you have any quick opinions between the DT990s and Annie's? Since you have heard them both specially the bass and soundstage. Thanks! Just wondering if I should pull on them or not?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> No reason to yell. I am sure If someone has heard them they would have said something.
> Mad do you have any quick opinions between the DT990s and Annie's? Since you have heard them both specially the bass and soundstage. Thanks! Just wondering if I should pull on them or not?


 
   
  Lol. True that. You don't even have to wait for him to reply. I could probably answer this for you. DT990's - Not a balanced can like the AKG's. They are bass and treble heavy. The treble is even more pronounced in this model in comparison to their reference DT880's, which is known for being a bit treble-centric. It's "the Beyer sound" lol. The bass is also different with the DT990's in comparison to the DT880's (read the first post by him to compare). As far as the soundstage goes, idk. I don't remember. I think the first post details the DT990 soundstage. The Q701's are known for their awesome soundstage, and I'm sure the K702 Annie has the same, if not better, to some ears. Quit wondering, pull, pull on the K702 Annie's hard, because there are only 3,000 made. Go go!


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





hailin said:


> No reason to yell. I am sure If someone has heard them they would have said something.
> Mad do you have any quick opinions between the DT990s and Annie's? Since you have heard them both specially the bass and soundstage. Thanks! Just wondering if I should pull on them or not?


 

 +1 for this, would help my question


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





jhalf said:


> +1 for this, would help my question


 
   
  Look up one before this one, lol. I'd be curious on a more in-depth review of the phones for sure though.


----------



## jerg

I'd be more interested in some official measurements of the k702an from Tyll, and see exactly what was retuned/refined directly compared to all the non-anniversary AKGs.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





jerg said:


> I'd be more interested in some official measurements of the k702an from Tyll, and see exactly what was retuned/refined directly compared to all the non-anniversary AKGs.


 
   
  Same, but regardless, I'm still buying them  The prestige of having a Limited Edition is awesome too, especially when they put the part number on each headphone, not to mention the "Made in Austria" bit. Awesome  Okay, lol, I'll stop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hailin, the DT990 is still more fun oriented than the Annie. If I were to put bass into a quantifiable number...

DT990 - 9.0
HE400 - 8.5 (lot more sub bass than the rest, but not as bass oriented overall as the 990)
DT880 - 8.0
HD650 - 8.0
K702 Annie - 7.8
Q701 - 7.2
Old K701 - 6.9

Made up numbers but still.

The 990 and K702 Annie are very different. I feel they compete more with the 880/HD650 in terms of balance, but sound most similar to a more energetic, and open HD650. The HD650 is more closed in, slower, and more reserved in the treble. You can call it intimate. The Annie is a lot more open so it isnt as intimate.

However, if I had to guess how the Annie will perform for gaming, I will guesstimate an 8.0 for fun, 9 for competitive (similar the Q701, but warmer and not as oriented in the details).

I have no doubt they will be my first pick for general all rounder.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hailin, the DT990 is still more fun oriented than the Annie. If I were to put bass into a quantifiable number...
> DT990 - 9.0
> HE400 - 8.5
> DT880 - 8.0
> ...


 

 I' m wondering if a tube amp will warm up the DT990s to be about perfect then, providing immersive bass, but not being overly harsh on the treble.
   
  Mad, What was the best amp you used with the DT990s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My SA-31. That thing puts out about 700mw at 600ohms. Very clean and musical amp. I love the 990, and if I had to guess, a high end tube amp with lots of warmth would be the best thing for them. I don't do tubes, and I'm growing out of bright headphones.

If anything, I'd consider the Valhalla for the DT990.

I may have the change the bass number to an 8.0 for the K702 Annie. There are times I feel they sound as bassy as the HE-400.


----------



## CFGamescape

MLE - awesome stuff about the K702 Anniversary.  I guess I know what I'll be saving my pennies for!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Still haven't gamed on them though! Lol. So busy enjoying them for music.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hailin, the DT990 is still more fun oriented than the Annie. If I were to put bass into a quantifiable number...
> DT990 - 9.0
> HE400 - 8.5 (lot more sub bass than the rest, but not as bass oriented overall as the 990)
> DT880 - 8.0
> ...


 
   
  Well, thank you! It seems the two options I come down to are the He-400 and the Annie's. How's the sub-bass on the Annies? I guess the Annie's are more competitively oriented (~9.0 vs 7.5 of the He-400), with the HE being more fun.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually find the Annie to actually more fun oriented in it's tonal balance! :eek:

Actually, not because it's bass oriented, but because it's more musical and not as analytical as before.

Still, because they are still so detailed, and soundtage is huge, I will assume they to be competitive monsters, while there is still more 'fun' to be had with the more bassy HE-400 and others more bass-oriented...

Like I said, I EXPECT:

Fun: 8 (maybe even an 8.5 as bass isn't the only thing that counts for fun)
Competitive: 9

Sub bass isn't a strength in dynamic headphones (especially open ones), but I find the bass on the Annies to be very impressive on all fronts. I mean, I was always wishing more from the Q701. Not so with the Annie. It's... I mean seriously, they are amazing.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I actually find the Annie to actually more fun oriented in it's tonal balance!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  :O indeed. Wow. Wonderful!
   
  Right. I also felt the need for it to be more musical and less analytical. I think they hit the nail on the head here.
   
  All right, but you did give the 400 a 7.5 compared to the Q701's 9.5. While I'm sure the He-400 is no slouch for competitive, it would seem the Annie (as per the Q) would be better for gaming.
   
  What a stellar rating, and don't forget a 10/10 for comfort! I think overall, this will be the highest rated headphone from you, lol.
   
  Well, that seals the deal for me. I was always wanting more bass out of the Q's. It doesn't help that I grew up with lots of Hip-hop, with emphasis on bass (I love bass), but regardless, I never wanted something bass heavy. I'd like to appreciate the sound for what it truly is, not imparting or colouring it with anything. I suppose that's why I like reference/balanced headphones so much. I was always a balanced type of guy. Anyway, thanks yet again  Play some games with them!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to remember, I also have a ridiculously powerful amp. I have to see how they sound with less power (Mixamp alone). I did like it just fine off my phone alone. Don't know if they are more sensitive, or if the pads being more dense makes it easier for volume to reach the ears.

I think my highest rated headphone is the D7000 though.


----------



## Evshrug

With Chico's frequent statements about the Q701 bass, I wonder if maybe sample variation and/or a different life experience is making you hear the "fun" of the K701 65th Anni. I certainly had many "musical moments" with the Q's, though they seem to happen most late at night, when I'm in the mood for music and my brain has quieted down from worrying about other things. Sometimes the Q does make me shut up and take notice though lol, it really is my favorite way to listen to music. Seems Mad is having the same difficulty of pulling away I get with my Q's 

With the current tube (a Syvania JAN 6DJ8) in my desktop amp, there is wonderfull detail, texture, and "punch" to all freq – it all sounds very natural and balanced, but I wish there was a little of the bass fatness from my Amperex 6DJ8 tube (which seems atypical for this tube mfr).


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You have to remember, I also have a ridiculously powerful amp. I have to see how they sound with less power (Mixamp alone). I did like it just fine off my phone alone. Don't know if they are more sensitive, or if the pads being more dense makes it easier for volume to reach the ears.
> I think my highest rated headphone is the D7000 though.


 
   
  Ah, that's right. I do too though? Yamaha Aventage RX-A710 7.1 Receiver. I'm not sure how to calculate the power though, lol. I'd be really interested in what it is! http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a710/ <<< Just click on specs. If you or anyone else would do it for me, thanks! So, I'm not worried how they'll do with less juice.
   
  The sensitivity is the exact same as the Q701 at 105 SPL/V. Actually, as per the website, every spec is exactly the same, barring the frequency range. I was watching a Youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xavIoI-KWw @ 1:24 is when you can see the back of the box with 1:28 being a clear representation of the specs. You can clearly see 8hz - 39,800hz on the box, which means there is an extra 2hz in the low end. Couple that with the fact that the headband has been restructured and the new memory foam? ear pads, and you just may have your reason for why the bass is better. I heard the pads are also maybe not angled like the Q701?
   
  Also, did these come with the long 6m cable? I can see it came with the "short" 3m one (which is by no means short and the one I want anyway).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But again, the scores are NOT to be compared. A 7 for the KSC35 is not the same as a 7 for the HD650. The HD650 is MUCH, MUCH better than the KSC35. My scores reflect a headphone's own merits. I can't stress this enough.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> With Chico's frequent statements about the Q701 bass, I wonder if maybe sample variation and/or a different life experience is making you hear the "fun" of the K701 65th Anni. I certainly had many "musical moments" with the Q's, though they seem to happen most late at night, when I'm in the mood for music and my brain has quieted down from worrying about other things. Sometimes the Q does make me shut up and take notice though lol, it really is my favorite way to listen to music. Seems Mad is having the same difficulty of pulling away I get with my Q's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's when my "musical moments" happen, lol. Totally understand. I've "pulled away" once while listening. I mean, I totally felt like I was in the club where I first heard the song, then once I was gone, the next few songs were just heaven. It still left me wanting a bit more though (hint hint - bass), and when I came back, I couldn't help but notice that uncomfortable headband. AKG makes some seriously SOLID products though, at a great price, although their K3003 is way overpriced, even if it has some goldly specs combined with being the best universal IEM available.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> But again, the scores are NOT to be compared. A 7 for the KSC35 is not the same as a 7 for the HD650. The HD650 is MUCH, MUCH better than the KSC35. My scores reflect a headphone's own merits. I can't stress this enough.


 
   
  Ah, duh, I forgot. How could I overlook that? I guess I just figured they were in the same class. Regardless, overall, the Annies would still be the highest rated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> With Chico's frequent statements about the Q701 bass, I wonder if maybe sample variation and/or a different life experience is making you hear the "fun" of the K701 65th Anni. I certainly had many "musical moments" with the Q's, though they seem to happen most late at night, when I'm in the mood for music and my brain has quieted down from worrying about other things. Sometimes the Q does make me shut up and take notice though lol, it really is my favorite way to listen to music. Seems Mad is having the same difficulty of pulling away I get with my Q's
> With the current tube (a Syvania JAN 6DJ8) in my desktop amp, there is wonderfull detail, texture, and "punch" to all freq – it all sounds very natural and balanced, but I wish there was a little of the bass fatness from my Amperex 6DJ8 tube (which seems atypical for this tube mfr).




Chico's taste for bass isn't the same as mine, and while I do agree that there were times when the Q701 was as bassy as the 990 (very few times), there is a clear difference in presentation between the Qs and the Annie. The Annie provies further warmth and bass. That much is clearly evident. TBH, the Annie leans more towards sounding like an HD650 with a bigger soundstage and not as laid back, than the Q for me.

However, this is based off memory and not direct comparison.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have no doubt they will be my first pick for general all rounder.


 
  Quote: 





cfgamescape said:


> MLE - awesome stuff about the K702 Anniversary.  I guess I know what I'll be saving my pennies for!


 
   
   
  Hey, just save one for me!!  
   
  I've been a Q701 fan and ambassador since day 1, but I don't have enough cash to buy another headphone yet.


----------



## Evshrug

I hear ya Chico, but I may finally have my fortunes turn around as more companies hire around this time. I've got some pending possibilities at a computer repair/custom build shop, and a Trader Joe's grocery store. They at least have replied to me.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My SA-31. That thing puts out about 700mw at 600ohms. Very clean and musical amp. I love the 990, and if I had to guess, a high end tube amp with lots of warmth would be the best thing for them. I don't do tubes, and I'm growing out of bright headphones.
> If anything, I'd consider the Valhalla for the DT990.
> I may have the change the bass number to an 8.0 for the K702 Annie. There are times I feel they sound as bassy as the HE-400.


 

 I was, but apparently I have heard the valhalla is actually on the brighter side


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^Ah, didn't know that. I assumed tube amps tended to run on the warm side compared to SS amps.


Okay, so I played some CoD4 and MW2 with the K02 Annie today, both with and without attaching an external amp to the Mixamp.

Good news: The K702 sounds quite lovely off the Mixamp alone. Didn't have much time comparing with and without my external amp, but they sounded nice and full either way. 

Soundstage is nice and big as I expected. Clarity was top notch, so I'm expecting them to be on par with the Q701's competitive score, and a higher fun score.

My Mixamp was basically at around 60%, which is right where it starts to show some hiss. I usually have the Mixamp at around 70% for my other cans, so it was surprising to see how easy it is for the Annie to get loud.

Due to it's fullness, I expect lack of driving force won't be as obvious as thinner sounding headphones like the old K701 and DT990, so these are probably gonna be quite enjoyable even off portable amps.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ^Ah, didn't know that. I assumed tube amps tended to run on the warm side compared to SS amps.
> Okay, so I played some CoD4 and MW2 with the K02 Annie today, both with and without attaching an external amp to the Mixamp.
> Good news: The K702 sounds quite lovely off the Mixamp alone. Didn't have much time comparing with and without my external amp, but they sounded nice and full either way.
> Soundstage is nice and big as I expected. Clarity was top notch, so I'm expecting them to be on par with the Q701's competitive score, and a higher fun score.
> ...


 
   
  Glad you did both amp and amp-less, lol. More like great news! I expected the same. Glad to hear that about the clarity. Just awesome. Yeah, I'm glad to know it doesn't take as much force for the volume too. Man, they just keep on surprising me. What an excellent pair of cans.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ^Ah, didn't know that. I assumed tube amps tended to run on the warm side compared to SS amps.
> Okay, so I played some CoD4 and MW2 with the K02 Annie today, both with and without attaching an external amp to the Mixamp.
> Good news: The K702 sounds quite lovely off the Mixamp alone. Didn't have much time comparing with and without my external amp, but they sounded nice and full either way.
> Soundstage is nice and big as I expected. Clarity was top notch, so I'm expecting them to be on par with the Q701's competitive score, and a higher fun score.
> ...


 
  60%?? whoa lol
   
  I game competitively at approx.30-40% volume on the mixamp and it gets plenty loud on the mmx 300's. You must like it REALLY loud. :O
   
  must be a major ohm load difference on the annies vs the beyers.......


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The headphones I use tend to need a lot more in the volume than 32ohm Beyers, though the Beyers are hard to drive properly.


----------



## Hailin

Thanks for answering my questions MLE. I figured it was going to come up eventually so I decided to get it over and done with ahead of others.
   
  After talking it over with the SO I have decided I need to look at closed headphones. I spent about 4 hours today in Far Cry 3 with the HM5 CALs and I was blown away just how off the mixamp I felt so immersed in the world and directionality of the sounds. Plus I was able to block out the noise of the apartment.
   
  I love my DT990s but the CALs are no slouch and hold there own to the point I think they feel like they reach deeper then the DT990pros.
   
  Only thing I don't like is the HM5 pads are still pleather and they still get hot and eventually sweaty. 
   
  So back to the drawing table to look at DT770s, Pro900 and ? Velour and closed just aren't sold together to often. Pros are out though other thing I don't want is another damn coiled cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, slim pickings for closed velour cans. DT770 Pro 80 would be a slightly inferior alternative to the 990 Pros, but not far off from what you're used to from the 990s.

Can't remember if it was coiled though... I think it was. Look for some premium DT770s. If anything, the MMX300 isnt as expensive as they used to be, and has the built in mic.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, slim pickings for closed velour cans. DT770 Pro 80 would be a slightly inferior alternative to the 990 Pros, but not far off from what you're used to from the 990s.
> Can't remember if it was coiled though... I think it was. Look for some premium DT770s. If anything, the MMX300 isnt as expensive as they used to be, and has the built in mic.


 
  Pro900 vs DT770s any opinions there? Just curiosity really. TY for all your help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is clearer, and it focuses on mid bass which hits hard as hell. The 770 Pro 80 is sub bass heavy, which is more rumble than actual impact. Both have pretty recessed mids, and sharp treble, though the 770s aren't as harsh.

 The Pro 900 has this very artificial, metallic twinge to it I didn't particularly like. The 770s are amazing at positional cues. The Pro 900 positioning is great, but a lot more closed sounding.

I find both to be very comfy for closed cans.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Pro 900 is clearer, and it focuses on mid bass which hits hard as hell. The 770 Pro 80 is sub bass heavy, which is more rumble than actual impact. Both have pretty recessed mids, and sharp treble, though the 770s aren't as harsh.
> The Pro 900 has this very artificial, metallic twinge to it I didn't particularly like. The 770s are amazing at positional cues. The Pro 900 positioning is great, but a lot more closed sounding.
> I find both to be very comfy for closed cans.


 
  Hmm ok that is some excellent info. I was going to pull the trigger on the Pro900 cause it is 327 on amazon right now. 
  Guess I am just itching to get something new. I have been ABing all night with music through the E9K/E17 and I keep putting the CALs back on due to the very slightly recessed mids of the DT990 vs the CALs while listening to some Jack Johnson. He some great guitar and kick drum bass in his music. So both headphones just sound so stellar. Thinking the Pro900 might be a nice addition.
   
  What I would love to find the speaker like quality of HD598 (I know I won't find that in a closed headphone.) with more bass in another headphone. That is the wierdest most comfortable headphone I have ever heard. Except the low end being completely non existent IMO I didn't like that part. Or positional accuracy which I thought stunk personally.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like you want the HE400. Seriously. That has the very meaning of speaker like sound, and the bass you want.

I honestly prefer the 990s to the Pro 900, so I'd steer you away from those.

I have to try the 598 again at some point as what I heard is different from what people tell me they sound like. I thought they were thin, too mid focused, and boring. While people agree they are mid focused, they say its a musical headphone and warm. I didnt get that at all.


----------



## Hailin

I had a feeling you would say that. LOL 
   
  What about outside isolation with them? I don't care about the people around me I am more concerned about hearing them? LOL If they like the DT990pros then I am in the same boat? Also I am sorry I am asking to many questions. I do really appreciate your advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, forgot you wanted closed. The HE400 is the most open headphone I have ever heard. They leak in and out like crazy.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh yeah, forgot you wanted closed. The HE400 is the most open headphone I have ever heard. They leak in and out like crazy.


 
  I figured. If I was going open I would be ordering the HE400 or Annies in a heartbeat!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would honestly love to own a really good pair of closed headphones, if they were velour padded. The Pro900 is as good as it gets in that regard, and I dont even like them that much, so im out of luck.

I would say the T70, but I hear they are worse than the 770/600 which aren't even around anymore.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I would honestly love to own a really good pair of closed headphones, if they were velour padded. The Pro900 is as good as it gets in that regard, and I dont even like them that much, so im out of luck.
> I would say the T70, but I hear they are worse than the 770/600 which aren't even around anymore.


 
   
  Same, but maybe go for an IEM then?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hate IEMs. They hurt my ears, have horrible soundstage next to full size, and can get tangled, etc.

Honestly, I'd look into the MMX300. Basically a DT770 with a mic. Hard to beat that, though bass may not be powerful.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I hate IEMs. They hurt my ears, have horrible soundstage next to full size, and can get tangled, etc.
> Honestly, I'd look into the MMX300. Basically a DT770 with a mic. Hard to beat that, though bass may not be powerful.


 
   
  Maybe try the custom IEM's then? LOL, the K3003 is the best universal, but it's $1000. Overpriced honestly. I never was a fan of custom molds. They still need to advance a bit. At least they wouldn't hurt your ears. The thing that I LOVE about them is that I want a mobile headphone. Not a full-size with a portable amp, but something that can stay on my head when working out or something of the like. Do they seriously have that bad of a soundstage though?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Koss KSC35 or 75. Best mobile headphones with actual soundstage. I just wish they were prettier.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> LOL, the K3003 is the best universal, but it's $1000.
> 
> The thing that I LOVE about them is that I want a mobile headphone. Not a full-size with a portable amp, but something that can stay on my head when working out or something of the like.


 

 Stax makes the best headphones for working out.
   
  Also look into the AKG K1000.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> Maybe try the custom IEM's then? LOL, the K3003 is the best universal, but it's $1000. Overpriced honestly. I never was a fan of custom molds. They still need to advance a bit. At least they wouldn't hurt your ears. The thing that I LOVE about them is that I want a mobile headphone. Not a full-size with a portable amp, but something that can stay on my head when working out or something of the like. Do they seriously have that bad of a soundstage though?



Wait, have you tried custom molds? What's not to like?
The main thing IMO about IEMs is how fiddly fit can be and the drastic effect the quality of your seal affects the sound. My Etymotic came with 3 sizes of silicone and 2 foam sizes, I've found I'm most comfortable with the large silicone or the small foam. Custom eartips really take out a lot of the guesswork for comfort and seal, though you still have to maintain discipline with cleaning your ears.

My ears are little ear-wax factories to be honest (and maybe gross). I don't know why, they actually test to have little hearing damage for my age (one factor that causes ears to produce more wax) and I don't get ear infections often (maybe two or three in my whole life since I can remember), but starting about 6 years ago my right ear will occasionally completely seal itself up with wax. Sounds like when you get water in your ears. All I have to do is use a special syringe to flush the wax out (it sprays sideways instead of directly at the eardrum), so it's easy to fix, but still seems weird. Happens like once every 2 years. Even so, my Ety's are my first choice when on public transport.

I think I've only gamed once on my Ety's — I hadn't figured out the best eartip yet and I tend to play for several hours at a time, then I got the AD700 which are more comfortable and less of a hassle to prepare for — but the detail and positioning were very tight. I remember specifically testing them for _depth_ in classical and holographic recordings, and I was able to tell when things sounded close or far away from the microphone(s). I'll have to do a "Crazy Comparisons" review sometime, since I can.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Koss KSC35 or 75. Best mobile headphones with actual soundstage. I just wish they were prettier.


 
   
  Forreal? No way.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Wait, have you tried custom molds? What's not to like?
> The main thing IMO about IEMs is how fiddly fit can be and the drastic effect the quality of your seal affects the sound. My Etymotic came with 3 sizes of silicone and 2 foam sizes, I've found I'm most comfortable with the large silicone or the small foam. Custom eartips really take out a lot of the guesswork for comfort and seal, though you still have to maintain discipline with cleaning your ears.
> My ears are little ear-wax factories to be honest (and maybe gross). I don't know why, they actually test to have little hearing damage for my age (one factor that causes ears to produce more wax) and I don't get ear infections often (maybe two or three in my whole life since I can remember), but starting about 6 years ago my right ear will occasionally completely seal itself up with wax. Sounds like when you get water in your ears. All I have to do is use a special syringe to flush the wax out (it sprays sideways instead of directly at the eardrum), so it's easy to fix, but still seems weird. Happens like once every 2 years. Even so, my Ety's are my first choice when on public transport.
> I think I've only gamed once on my Ety's — I hadn't figured out the best eartip yet and I tend to play for several hours at a time, then I got the AD700 which are more comfortable and less of a hassle to prepare for — but the detail and positioning were very tight. I remember specifically testing them for _depth_ in classical and holographic recordings, and I was able to tell when things sounded close or far away from the microphone(s). I'll have to do a "Crazy Comparisons" review sometime, since I can.


 
  They're custom. That's what, lol. I knew about the flanges (think that's what they're called). Interesting though. Yeah, I had a listen to the "matches" recording. I think I may suffer from hearing damage. 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Stax makes the best headphones for working out.
> 
> Also look into the AKG K1000.


 
   
  Kidding me? Do they even come with a headphone jack? I will check them out though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean that they are all I need for portability. They never move around, are open so you can hear around you, and aren't uncomfortable.

And lol@Chico.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Evshrug

Chico,
If you are looking for the headphone that makes you look good with Any situation (and apparently, increases the confidence of everyone around you), we need not look any further than these:






I caved, and finally bought a pair of these sex machines, and OMG these are so end-game my heart skipped like a giddy school girl and probably end my life for a moment every time a song starts. The bass is amazing, somehow both heavy and elephantine-bodied while remaining tight and catholic-controlled – I guess the bass is best likened to a dense, sharp-edged solid brick of lead that kicks me in the arse (and head too, at the same time. They both hear it). The mids are, well, perfectly balanced inbetween forward and laid-back, liquid and dry, meteoric impact and dancer-dexterous. The highs are so sweet and pure, absolutely pure, it's like cherub angels are secreting their essence directly into my ears. Soundstage and refined detail are also godly, I'm hearing sounds even the musicians couldn't have heard, and with Dolby Headphone I can not only hear the direction of enemies in MW2, but I swear I can even hear if the player's thumbs are sweaty. I have never heard sounds from the rear this piquant. And so comfortable too: no headband bumps! The look is so sexy that my girlfriend admitted that she is no longer woman enough for me, and I can go date as many women as I want! I'll be hitting up the gym, swimming pool, the grocery store, and all manner of public places to see and be seen as da new hotness – tomorrow. Because now, it's too dark. So here's a pic of me in my black beauties, as my comparatively dirty, traintrack-spike-to-my-ear sounding Q701s sit dejected and defeated without competition:


----------



## Evshrug

And Mad, you should just give in to reality. You'll never be truly happy until you are the proud owner of these:




Looks like he's kicking butt in Halo:CE. Your favorite Xbox game.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chico,
> If you are looking for the headphone that makes you look good with Any situation (and apparently, increases the confidence of everyone around you), we need not look any further than these:
> I caved, and finally bought a pair of these sex machines, and OMG these are so end-game my heart skipped like a giddy school girl and probably end my life for a moment every time a song starts. The bass is amazing, somehow both heavy and elephantine-bodied while remaining tight and catholic-controlled – I guess the bass is best likened to a dense, sharp-edged solid brick of lead that kicks me in the arse (and head too, at the same time. They both hear it). The mids are, well, perfectly balanced inbetween forward and laid-back, liquid and dry, meteoric impact and dancer-dexterous. The highs are so sweet and pure, absolutely pure, it's like cherub angels are secreting their essence directly into my ears. Soundstage and refined detail are also godly, I'm hearing sounds even the musicians couldn't have heard, and with Dolby Headphone I can not only hear the direction of enemies in MW2, but I swear I can even hear if the player's thumbs are sweaty. I have never heard sounds from the rear this piquant. And so comfortable too: no headband bumps! The look is so sexy that my girlfriend admitted that she is no longer woman enough for me, and I can go date as many women as I want! I'll be hitting up the gym, swimming pool, the grocery store, and all manner of public places to see and be seen as da new hotness – tomorrow. Because now, it's too dark. So here's a pic of me in my black beauties, as my comparatively dirty, traintrack-spike-to-my-ear sounding Q701s sit dejected and defeated without competition


 
   
  Lol
   
  Reminds me of this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/571326/meet-typical-headfier-andy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't been on that thread in ages. I missed it. Hahahaha.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Lol
> 
> Reminds me of this thread http://www.head-fi.org/t/571326/meet-typical-headfier-andy




Hahaha, wow... So many of the posters are banned.
/me gets nervous.

Loved the pic featuring "You want IEMs? Get M50s."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those M50 haters 

 I love those cans. Even now. I go listen to my brother's M50 or my stepfather's M50LE, and there isn't much to dislike about them, other than the fact it's closed and doesn't have an appreciable soundstage. Even the pleather pads don't bother me, which is rare.

And lol, Evs. I so wanna try that shoulder mounted speaker setup. XD


----------



## Evshrug

Can I point out the irony of this 2 year old pic?
http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8c/8c3a3f36_11228086.jpeg

Wish I hadn't started reading that thread. People try to tell me sleep is a good thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, it's funny and somewhat true..

Still though, when you guys hear the Annie, you will be converted to true believers. I personally guarantee it. Much more than a recolor. I'd say Recolor in the sense that the tonal balance is recolored for more musicality. 

I'm here listening to both the HE-400 and the Annie, and I don't see how in ANY way the HE-400 beats the Annie other than bass, and even that is debateable on certain tracks.

Another surprise... the Annie needs around the same on the volume pot and possibly less than the HE-400!



^You know you all want to.


----------



## TMRaven

For 400 I don't want to.  Only if someone lends them to me.
   
  I could be putting the 200 from soon to be ODAC/O2 sale and another 200 for them, but I rather save up for LCD-2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's better than the HE-400 which costs the same... that's how I justify it.


----------



## TMRaven

I'm not quite as 'Mad' as you, so I won't be selling anything currently or buying anything and reselling it until I get the LCD-2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, trust me, I wouldn't wanna be me. XD

But I hope you're able to hear it at some point. The biggest reason I'd get the Annie over the LCD2 is the soundstage, weight, and comfort, in addition to the incredible sound they put out. The more I A/B with the HE-400, the more I realize the bass is actually almost comparable. It's crazy. At one point I forgot which one I was listening to when I was listening to music, and was laying down.


----------



## Naingolann

Eh, I would love to try the Annies, but it's just too expensive...The Beyers were too much for me already, but I still bought 'em in the end and I'm very happy. Although, I'm looking for something else on the same level the 990s, because the HD555 just don't do it anymore for me...They've lost all the magic and just can't compare with the Beyers. 
   
  I'm still on fence about the Fidelio X1 which I could get for a very low price, but I don't know...The Q701 is an option too, but the price is still pretty steep where I live. And then, there's there's the amp issue. I would love to get something better than the E9/E7 combo, which is been great, but I know I could get more from my headphones with a better amp. Meh...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your amp is fine. I'd upgrade the source first. Trust me. The E7 is the weak link. I still enjoyed the E9K's (which should be the same sonically as the E9) sound recently even next to my SA-31. That was testing the 600ohm 990s too.

The X1 is going to be my next headphone (once it's on Amazon here), as I have a feeling I'm not gonna keep the HE-400. That damn Annie really screwed with my plans. Headphones aren't allowed to have bass, mids, clarity, large soundstage, extreme comfort, featherweight all at once!


----------



## Vader2k

So, I was set on getting the DT 990 Pros.  Then you had to go and get the Annies, Mad.  Based on your reactions, I'm really, really tempted.  The price is a bit tough to swallow compared to what I was going to spend on the 990s, though.  If I do decide to get them, I'd have to readjust funds from other planned expenditures, including cancelling a pre-order for the Hot Wheels 1:18 scale Ghostbusters Ecto-1A (yeah, I'm a geek) which is supposed to release later this month (maybe I'll get lucky and the release will be pushed back again).  Don't make me regret passing on Ecto MLE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I do have a question.  I ordered the Magni last week.  If I'm remembering correctly, earlier you told someone the Magni would be better for the Q701s than the E9k.  Would it be safe to assume that the Magni will be fine with the Annies as well?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ^You know you all want to.


 
   
  I've got this bookmarked > http://camelcamelcamel.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/product/B00A8LZ5GU
   
  But I need to wait for some spending money to accumulate first.   Plus I don't want to sell the Q701 without having a chance to compare the two first to see the differences.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Do the Annies have removable earpads?


----------



## Jhalf

Well, screw it. I am buying the Annies.. Has to make a good set of first headphones right?
   
  Now onto an amp..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Do the Annies have removable earpads?


 
   
  Yes, most higher end AKGs have pads that twist off with a bayonet lock.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've got this bookmarked > http://camelcamelcamel.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/product/B00A8LZ5GU
> 
> But I need to wait for some spending money to accumulate first.   Plus I don't want to sell the Q701 without having a chance to compare the two first to see the differences.


 
   
  Camelcamelcamel is such an excellent site!  I use it whenever I can.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Kidding me? Do they even come with a headphone jack? I will check them out though.


 
   
  That was a joke reply, as I'm sure you've noticed by now...though Stax actually does make portable electrostatic IEM systems in the form of the S-001 and the new S-002. I'm going to have to try one of those at some point, though the S-002 is way out of my price range.
   
  Alternatively, you could try a full-size headphone and an SRD-P loaded with batteries, but at that point, you're seriously compromising portability due to how big the SRD-P is compared to the amp portions of the S-001 and S-002 systems.
   
  The K1000 takes the term "earspeakers" quite literally, in that they're meant to be driven right off a speaker amp/integrated receiver. It's a similar case for any electrostatic headphone system bundled with a simple transformer box instead of a direct-drive amp, which is why I haven't sent my Stax setup off to MLE to review yet. No point doing so if he lacks the required sort of amplifier to make it work.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ^You know you all want to.


 
   
  It'll be tough to tempt me with that price. I could get another SR-Lambda with SRD-7/SB for that much, with a little searching on the usual places.
   
  But the bigger problem is that I just don't _have_ that much. Maybe I should've held off on the PS3...nah, I wanna play some Yakuza already.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

You know, I'm been lurking/posting in this thread for over two months and I still don't know what it is that I want in a headphone. Being a novice in the audiophile scene that is to be expected to a certain extent I suppose. Recently I thought about it and what I want the most is the following:
   
  1. Great comfort (because if I'm going to be wearing this for a lot of time, this is a given)
  2. Wide soundstage (for both music and gaming)
  3. quality headphone (but not too expensive..)
  4. I don't know how much bass or sub-bass I want but at least something sufficient enough to service the games, music and movies or tv shows I'lm likely to watch.

 Bachata: Prince Royce, Hector Acosta etc.
 R&B Tank, Alicia Keys, Luther Vandross
 Soul: Adele
 Rap (Old School, East Coast sounds like The Message, as well as Things like Mind Blowin' from The D.O.C.)
   
  *As a general note, I want headphones that will help separate the vocals from the actual instruments. Often times I find that the low-quality earphones I use just mesh the sounds toguether. Even the speakers on my PC do so. I Imagine a large sound stage will help alleviate this issue. I also imagine it will be good for "cinematic" games like Bioshock where I would like to be immersed in the atmosphere.
   
  5. It doesn't really matter whether it is closed or open. I imagine if I'm invested in whatever I'm doing enough I'll most likely won't be paying attention to whatever is around me even if it is making a lot of noise. As long as it is sufficiently comfortable.
   
  ...That's about all I can think of for now. If you guys have any suggestiongs let me know. So far I seems to like the fidelio X1 but that's not possible at the moment. I PM someone who might sell them to me at a reasonable price and not the $419 they go for (plus tax I imagine) in accessoryjack.com. I also have an affinity for the he-400s, but either way I'm going to have to wait until late Jan. which is when I get my balances on order.


----------



## Jhalf

Same boat I was in.. It would make me feel better if you coughed up the dough for the K702 Anniversaries.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

It doesn't have the bass that I think I want so that's a no go for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Anniversary? Umm, have you heard them? The bass is quite potent. It's not a basshead headphone, but I do consider the bass emphasized above neutral. There are times when I feel it has as much bass as the HE-400, and close to it every other time. These are NOT like the Q701 or the older K701/2 in terms of bass.

Quantity-wise, If bass was neutral at 7 (I consider neutral good), the 990 would be an 8.5, HE-400 would be an 8, the Annie is an 7.8 (full and satisfying). The Q701 would be like 6.7 (just shy of neutral), and the old K701 would be like a 6.3.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hailin, the DT990 is still more fun oriented than the Annie. If I were to put bass into a quantifiable number...
> DT990 - 9.0
> HE400 - 8.5 (lot more sub bass than the rest, but not as bass oriented overall as the 990)
> DT880 - 8.0
> ...


 
  I probably want a more fun than competitive can for games like Bioshock, Skyrim, etc., I might end up buying a can for competitive gaming down the road. 
   
  Taken from fidelio x1 thread, page 38
  Quote: 





cib24 said:


> Now, the game changes a bit if we are talking about cinematic gaming. I'm talking about when you are playing something like Mass Effect, Max Payne, Crysis 2, Skyrim, The Witcher 2, etc. and want to really be engrossed in the experience. I think both headphones do an overall great job immersing you into the experience but the X1 does it all just a bit better because it is less bright than the DT 990 and handles the sub bass very well. Watching the cinematics in Mass Effect was more rewarding because the ship lasers and the low bass signature of the reapers and the mass relays had a fuller sound on the X1, kind of like I was watching Star Wars in the theatre. Crysis 2 is another one where the X1's control of the sub bass helps out. When you switch suit modes the robotic voice that says "stealth engaged" or "maximum armor" and stuff like that sounds pretty sweet. Also, Crysis 2's main score, which was composed by Hans Zimmer, sounds sweet due to how well the X1's handle brass instruments and the slightly better depth perception compared to the DT 990. Still, the DT 990 was by no means a slouch and was miles better than the DT 880.
> 
> This leads me to the conclusion that if you prioritize competitive games then the DT 990 is the better headphone because of how bright the headphone is, and it is pretty good for cinematic experiences as well. But if you aren't an extremely competitive gamer and want even better immersion with a warmer signature with tighter bass control then I think the X1 is a very good choice.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Anniversary? Umm, have you heard them? The bass is quite potent. It's not a basshead headphone, but I do consider the bass emphasized above neutral. There are times when I feel it has as much bass as the HE-400, and close to it every other time. These are NOT like the Q701 or the older K701/2 in terms of bass.
> Quantity-wise, If bass was neutral at 7 (I consider neutral good), the 990 would be an 8.5, HE-400 would be an 8, the Annie is an 7.8 (full and satisfying). The Q701 would be like 6.7 (just shy of neutral), and the old K701 would be like a 6.3.


 
   


 Just wait till they are fully broken in. You have me excited to receive mine! Still trying to figure out which amp to pair with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Roger, disregard those old bass scores. They weren't well thought out. Trust me, the Annie is fun. The most fun balanced can I have heard. The fun cans outside of the D7000 don't compare to it, unless you want specific bass bloat. Yes, not even the DT990.

I don't believe in that break in/burn in stuff. It sounds amazing now, it will sound just as amazing months from now.

As for amping, not sure how much my amp is doing to the sound, but the Annie sounded full even just off my phone. Still, I'd play to it's strengths and get a warm-ish amp. M-stage?


----------



## whiteshadow001

I've got the pre 2011 Astro A40 setup and I love it but I think my headset is starting to age a little bit. Would it be worth my time to go with the Sennheiser PC 360 or get the newer A40 headset?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

MLE, you stated that on occasion, the Annie's bass sounds similar to the HE-400, when would that be specifically?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want a more open and competitive oriented headset, go for the PC360. If you want more fun, I'd upgrade to the new A40s... but actually, no. The A40 is a good headset, but I wouldn't buy it outside of it's bundle with the Mixamp. Seems overpriced if buying it alone.

Man, I wanna hear the 2011 Mixamp. I would be willing to swap it for my 5.8, but I'd have to hear it first, lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roger de ceiba said:


> MLE, you stated that on occasion, the Annie's bass sounds similar to the HE-400, when would that be specifically?




With bass heavy music, the difference in bass is minor. I still need more testing, but even with non-bass heavy music, the bass is still nearly on par with the HE-400, despite the HE-400 having the sub bass that matches the mid bass. I dunno how the Annie compares in sub bass (which a lot of music doesn't tend to take much importance in anyways). This is why I originally sold my HE400 for the 990. The midbass was more present on the 990. But I missed the refinement, and soon went back to the HE-400 and didn't look back.

If you want basshead bass, neither the HE-400 or Annie have that bass bloat. However, the bass is full and quite satisfying especially when the music you listen to takes importance in the bass. Trust me, they do not lack bass, at all.


----------



## Hailin

So I had the Annies in my cart. My brother got home from work turned on all his gear and I took them out of my cart and went to a Canadian website and order the DT770 LEs. To hell with it. lol I need to block these guys out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't the LE's have pleather pads?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

You make compelling arguments MLE. I'll see what the price is a couple of weeks from now, if it is less than $500 I'll probably buy it.This will probably be an early birthday gift to myself... even though my birthday is not for another six months. That's how I'll justify it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What have you owned before? Trying to gauge what you expect in bass. Just don't expect DT990 emphasis on bass, and you'll be pleased. Open headphones don't normally have that much bass emphasis. The Annie is quite a bit better sounding than the 990s, I'll be honest. There won't be going back to the 990s for the millionth time for me, lol. The Annie has put a definite stop to that.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Like I said before, I haven't owned an "audiophile" headphone. I don't really want a bloated sound. I just want the bass to appear when it is needed.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, I wanna hear the 2011 Mixamp. I would be willing to swap it for my 5.8, but I'd have to hear it first, lol.


 
   
  Why do you want the 2011 mixamp?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I mean that they are all I need for portability. They never move around, are open so you can hear around you, and aren't uncomfortable.
> And lol@Chico.


 
   
  All right. Need more SQ, lol.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha, it's funny and somewhat true..
> Still though, when you guys hear the Annie, you will be converted to true believers. I personally guarantee it. Much more than a recolor. I'd say Recolor in the sense that the tonal balance is recolored for more musicality.
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well then, that's pretty awesome.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chico,
> If you are looking for the headphone that makes you look good with Any situation (and apparently, increases the confidence of everyone around you), we need not look any further than these:
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You are so witty and funny! lol. That's one hell of a description too. Aww, sad AKG's. They look huge too, lol. You even put a picture of yourself on the internet! Uh oh. You actually have me interested in these now! I would want a pair that's just like, the best, like these, then a pair like the AKG Annies that use a headphone jack so I can use them wherever, then an IEM for working out/highly mobile. What are these?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Btw, Chico, real funny, lol, preying on the innocent like that. Those shoulder mounted things are ridiculous! Lol. Wow@technology. That thread is indeed legendary and awesome. I sometimes miss out on sleep for the silliest reasons. Youtube, reading threads, research, lol.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Your amp is fine. I'd upgrade the source first. Trust me. The E7 is the weak link. I still enjoyed the E9K's (which should be the same sonically as the E9) sound recently even next to my SA-31. That was testing the 600ohm 990s too.
> The X1 is going to be my next headphone (once it's on Amazon here), as I have a feeling I'm not gonna keep the HE-400. That damn Annie really screwed with my plans. Headphones aren't allowed to have bass, mids, clarity, large soundstage, extreme comfort, featherweight all at once!


 
   
  Finally, someone got it right. I'm always tired of having to sacrifice something. What is the X1 btw?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> That was a joke reply, as I'm sure you've noticed by now...though Stax actually does make portable electrostatic IEM systems in the form of the S-001 and the new S-002. I'm going to have to try one of those at some point, though the S-002 is way out of my price range.
> 
> Alternatively, you could try a full-size headphone and an SRD-P loaded with batteries, but at that point, you're seriously compromising portability due to how big the SRD-P is compared to the amp portions of the S-001 and S-002 systems.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I thought so, lol. Ooooh, sweet! Headphone jack I'm guessing? Hey, tell me, what separates STAX from the competition? School me. I'm good on the portable with full size and batteries, lol. Ah I see. All so interesting. Glad you made the foray into console gaming, as there are quite a few exclusives. You should experience all, lol, not just PS3. 
  Quote: 





jhalf said:


> Well, screw it. I am buying the Annies.. Has to make a good set of first headphones right?
> 
> Now onto an amp..


 
   
  Has to make for a set of AMAZING first headphones.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've got this bookmarked > http://camelcamelcamel.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/product/B00A8LZ5GU
> 
> But I need to wait for some spending money to accumulate first.   Plus I don't want to sell the Q701 without having a chance to compare the two first to see the differences.


 
   
  Woah, that website is awesome!! That $349 was a typo though, I believe.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, trust me, I wouldn't wanna be me. XD
> But I hope you're able to hear it at some point. The biggest reason I'd get the Annie over the LCD2 is the soundstage, weight, and comfort, in addition to the incredible sound they put out. The more I A/B with the HE-400, the more I realize the bass is actually almost comparable. It's crazy. At one point I forgot which one I was listening to when I was listening to music, and was laying down.


 
   
  The Annies continue to impress.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Anniversary? Umm, have you heard them? The bass is quite potent. It's not a basshead headphone, but I do consider the bass emphasized above neutral. There are times when I feel it has as much bass as the HE-400, and close to it every other time. These are NOT like the Q701 or the older K701/2 in terms of bass.
> Quantity-wise, If bass was neutral at 7 (I consider neutral good), the 990 would be an 8.5, HE-400 would be an 8, the Annie is an 7.8 (full and satisfying). The Q701 would be like 6.7 (just shy of neutral), and the old K701 would be like a 6.3.


 
   
  Can't knock something till you've heard it. Really glad to hear this of the Annies. 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Roger, disregard those old bass scores. They weren't well thought out. Trust me, the Annie is fun. The most fun balanced can I have heard. The fun cans outside of the D7000 don't compare to it, unless you want specific bass bloat. Yes, not even the DT990.
> I don't believe in that break in/burn in stuff. It sounds amazing now, it will sound just as amazing months from now.
> As for amping, not sure how much my amp is doing to the sound, but the Annie sounded full even just off my phone. Still, I'd play to it's strengths and get a warm-ish amp. M-stage?


 
   
  Remember that link I posted? Burn in is BS mostly. What phone do you have btw?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> With bass heavy music, the difference in bass is minor. I still need more testing, but even with non-bass heavy music, the bass is still nearly on par with the HE-400, despite the HE-400 having the sub bass that matches the mid bass. I dunno how the Annie compares in sub bass (which a lot of music doesn't tend to take much importance in anyways). This is why I originally sold my HE400 for the 990. The midbass was more present on the 990. But I missed the refinement, and soon went back to the HE-400 and didn't look back.
> If you want basshead bass, neither the HE-400 or Annie have that bass bloat. However, the bass is full and quite satisfying especially when the music you listen to takes importance in the bass. Trust me, they do not lack bass, at all.


 
   
  Sweet  Still interested in Stax now though, lol. Evshrug's "review" of them just, blew me away, lol.
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> So I had the Annies in my cart. My brother got home from work turned on all his gear and I took them out of my cart and went to a Canadian website and order the DT770 LEs. To hell with it. lol I need to block these guys out.


 
  Booo!!!
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> You make compelling arguments MLE. I'll see what the price is a couple of weeks from now, if it is less than $500 I'll probably buy it.This will probably be an early birthday gift to myself... even though my birthday is not for another six months. That's how I'll justify it.


 
  Lol, we are always justifying things.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Like I said before, I haven't owned an "audiophile" headphone. I don't really want a bloated sound. I just want the bass to appear when it is needed.


 
   
  Go with the Annie sir.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Why do you want the 2011 mixamp?


 
   
  I'm guessing maybe because it doesn't have any of the problems that the newer mixamp has, coupled with less hiss? Idk.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha, it's funny and somewhat true..
> Still though, when you guys hear the Annie, you will be converted to true believers. I personally guarantee it. Much more than a recolor. I'd say Recolor in the sense that the tonal balance is recolored for more musicality.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hey Mad is there any difference between the annies and the K702 that would make one sound so much better than the other?? Like as in spec wise they both are speced out as the same cans.. I wonder what akg did different to warrant soo much money for the annies?? Is it better padding more dampning matterial, a color change for 409? Then again its AKG's Anniversary Edition so i guess i understand the reason for the price..


----------



## SoAmusing777

I'm really not spamming, just catching up. My bad. I learned how to properly multi-quote now. It's much less frusterating. My fault for not reading. You can call this page the SoAmusing page, LOL.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I thought so, lol. Ooooh, sweet! Headphone jack I'm guessing? Hey, tell me, what separates STAX from the competition? School me. I'm good on the portable with full size and batteries, lol. Ah I see. All so interesting. Glad you made the foray into console gaming, as there are quite a few exclusives. You should experience all, lol, not just PS3.


 
   
  The thing that separates Stax from the rest is that they're the only headphone manufacturer that primarily utilizes electrostatic drivers.
   
  Other brands like Koss (ESP series), Sennheiser (Orpheus), Beyerdynamic (ET-1000), Audio-Technica (various electrets), Sony (ECR series), and others have dabbled with electrostatic drivers of various sorts now and then, but those were always a side offering to their dynamic driver-based products. Stax only makes electrostatics, and as of right now, their headphones are the only electrostatic models in production, Koss ESP/950 aside.
   
  However, electrostatic drivers require voltage. Lots of it. Stax normal bias is 230V, Stax Pro bias is 580V, and Koss ESP/950 bias is 600V, to give you an idea of what we're dealing with. The input wires are also balanced by design: one for each stator (placed on both sides of the diaphragm in a planar structure), and one for the bias voltage that charges the diaphragms (unless it's an electret, then it's permanently charged and doesn't need external bias).
   
  That is why you need either a specially-designed electrostatic amp, which would plug into the conventional headphone jacks (or RCA line outputs) you're thinking of, or a box with a couple of big transformers and some other electronic bits to convert the powerful output from a speaker amp to a form usable by these type of drivers.
   
  Some amps are remarkably small, like the SRM-212, SRM-252S, and the battery-powered ones bundled with the S-001 and S-002 portable IEM systems. Those are generally used with more efficient headphones or IEMs. However, most of them are big and bulky for a very good reason, especially the rare and sought-after SRM-T2 (whose basic design may have inspired the renowned Blue Hawaii SE amp).
   
  Oh, and for the record, I've been a console gamer as long as I've been a PC gamer, which is frankly as long as I can remember deep into my early childhood. Playing on an NES, an SNES, and a Magnavox Odyssey2 (bet most people in here don't even know what that is) formed just as much of my early gaming memories as fiddling around in DOS and Windows 3.1 on my father's computer.
   
  It's just that until now, the Wii was my only current-gen console, and the rest were older consoles. NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, Saturn, PSone, and the Xbox. That's not including my old GameCube that was sent overseas (due to the Wii having backwards compatibility) and the Neo-Geo CD I had for a bit before reselling it (since most of the Neo-Geo's best are AES/MVS-only, and without the NGCD's infamously slow loading times). Just because I'm best known here for a PC gaming audio guide doesn't mean I haven't had plenty of console gaming time.
   
  I still favor PC gaming overall, but in the end, I play games, not platforms. If certain games are only released for consoles, I don't really have much choice in the matter other than to buy consoles for their exclusives. And in the PS2's case, there are a lot, some of which don't play nicely with PCSX2. The PS3 has less, but still a notable bunch, enough for me to warrant owning one that could also play PS2 games.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The thing that separates Stax from the rest is that they're the only headphone manufacturer that primarily utilizes electrostatic drivers.
> 
> Other brands like Koss (ESP series), Sennheiser (Orpheus), Beyerdynamic (ET-1000), Audio-Technica (various electrets), Sony (ECR series), and others have dabbled with electrostatic drivers of various sorts now and then, but those were always a side offering to their dynamic driver-based products. Stax only makes electrostatics, and as of right now, their headphones are the only electrostatic models in production, Koss ESP/950 aside.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm sorry, but that is just too technical for me, lol. I didn't understand some of that. I'm new to it all, if you didn't notice. Take it easy, lol. I did somewhat understand it though. All right then, there we go. So is that just it for headphones then? It's Stax vs the competition? lol. What I'm asking is, what are all the types of headphones? I realize there are closed, open, IEM, but this is completely new territory. If I'm to make an informed decision, I need to know what I have to work with.
   
  600v? I have no clue how much that is. I just don't wanna blow anything up, lol.
   
  Yeah, I have no clue what some of that is, but my apologies. That's awesome  I understand.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The thing that separates Stax from the rest is that they're the only headphone manufacturer that primarily utilizes electrostatic drivers.
> 
> Other brands like Koss (ESP series), Sennheiser (Orpheus), Beyerdynamic (ET-1000), Audio-Technica (various electrets), Sony (ECR series), and others have dabbled with electrostatic drivers of various sorts now and then, but those were always a side offering to their dynamic driver-based products. Stax only makes electrostatics, and as of right now, their headphones are the only electrostatic models in production, Koss ESP/950 aside.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't know why but i just impulse  purchased the last Koss- EP-950 from amazon maybe because when last i checked it was very close to a grand and now its at $645 for me minus $40 with amazon points so i jumped on it.  If i like the electrostats i will keep them if not return em for a refund lol.. Wow so i wonder if i will cook my brain cells with 600 bias volts within an inch or so of my ears and side of head lol. So Nameless how is that Radiation dosage going at 200 volts lol..


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Why do you want the 2011 mixamp?


 
   
  I'm thinking he meant 2013...
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Why the hell don't I just buy a Stax Setup hmm? The PS3 is not a mobile unit. I have to leave it at my place of residence. Stax works perfectly there. Not to mention, if I had a good computer nearby, I could use the Stax on that too, for music. Help Nameless?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Your amp is fine. I'd upgrade the source first. Trust me. The E7 is the weak link. I still enjoyed the E9K's (which should be the same sonically as the E9) sound recently even next to my SA-31. That was testing the 600ohm 990s too.
> The X1 is going to be my next headphone (once it's on Amazon here), as I have a feeling I'm not gonna keep the HE-400. That damn Annie really screwed with my plans. Headphones aren't allowed to have bass, mids, clarity, large soundstage, extreme comfort, featherweight all at once!


 
  Ahah, good to know you're enjoying the Annie. Gonna make those hp sell like hotcakes in the next few days...You'd definitely make a great salesman! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the X1 in the future. Hopefully, those "damn" Annie won't make you change your mind later, ahah. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  *edit*
  Forgot to ask what to get to replace the E7. What would you personally suggest?
  Quote: 





cib24 said:


> Now, the game changes a bit if we are talking about cinematic gaming. I'm talking about when you are playing something like Mass Effect, Max Payne, Crysis 2, Skyrim, The Witcher 2, etc. and want to really be engrossed in the experience. I think both headphones do an overall great job immersing you into the experience but the X1 does it all just a bit better because it is less bright than the DT 990 and handles the sub bass very well. Watching the cinematics in Mass Effect was more rewarding because the ship lasers and the low bass signature of the reapers and the mass relays had a fuller sound on the X1, kind of like I was watching Star Wars in the theatre. Crysis 2 is another one where the X1's control of the sub bass helps out. When you switch suit modes the robotic voice that says "stealth engaged" or "maximum armor" and stuff like that sounds pretty sweet. Also, Crysis 2's main score, which was composed by Hans Zimmer, sounds sweet due to how well the X1's handle brass instruments and the slightly better depth perception compared to the DT 990. Still, the DT 990 was by no means a slouch and was miles better than the DT 880.
> 
> This leads me to the conclusion that if you prioritize competitive games then the DT 990 is the better headphone because of how bright the headphone is, and it is pretty good for cinematic experiences as well. But if you aren't an extremely competitive gamer and want even better immersion with a warmer signature with tighter bass control then I think the X1 is a very good choice.


 
   
  That sounds sweet...Even more interested in getting the X1 now...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Regardless, Stax are freaking awesome, but those Annies are coming to me <3


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I'm thinking he meant 2013...
> 
> -Erik


 
  Nah, he meant the 2011/Pro. MLE has a 2013 already and the only mixamp he hasn't tried yet is the 2011. I'ld also like to see how the noise floor and sound signature differs between the 2011 and 2013.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Nah, he meant the 2011/Pro. MLE has a 2013 already and the only mixamp he hasn't tried yet is the 2011. I'ld also like to see how the noise floor and sound signature differs between the 2011 and 2013.


 
   
  Exactly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Why do you want the 2011 mixamp?




The least amount of hiss + PS3 chat.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The least amount of hiss + PS3 chat.


 
   
  Hmm.  I doubt the hiss is audible with the headphones you're using, save for the KSC35.  The 5.8 works with PS3 chat too, with that cable.
   
  But... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Mixamp-no-headphones-/251209284629?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3a7d3d7c15


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

i95north said:


> Hey Mad is there any difference between the annies and the K702 that would make one sound so much better than the other?? Like as in spec wise they both are speced out as the same cans.. I wonder what akg did different to warrant soo much money for the annies?? Is it better padding more dampning matterial, a color change for 409? Then again its AKG's Anniversary Edition so i guess i understand the reason for the price..




The Premium is due to each driver being specifically retuned, the new paint scheme, the new headband, and what I personally think is what changes sound the most: the non-angled, more dense memory foam pads, which feel very different from the standard pads. We all should know by now that pads can great affect the sound of a headphone. It will be interesting to see those who own non-Annies that can swap pads.

I'm willing to bet the reason they went non-angled is because of the way the pads form around your head shape. The older ones are quite stiff (though I still loved the old pad's comfort).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Over the next few days, I'm gonna be focused on the Astro A40s and 2013 Mixamp, as I wanna get that review out the way, so I can then focus on the Annie and Compass 2 once it gets here. After I'm done with my initial use of the Compass 2 and the HE400, I will be sending it out to the people I've mentioned, assuming they are still interested, as I know I probably got most of you salivating for the Annie and not the HE400.

Gonna need your addresses via pm, and im gonna try and send them to whomever is closest, and follow that sequence so everyone gets them quickly. Still, I don't expect the Compass 2 will get here until maybe the end of January as I have asked for the OCC wire upgrade and better TCXOs for the USB module and Sabre dac chip (for lower jitter). So expect the HE400 in Feb.




chicolom said:


> Hmm.  I doubt the hiss is audible with the headphones you're using, save for the KSC35.  The 5.8 works with PS3 chat too, with that cable.
> 
> But... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Mixamp-no-headphones-/251209284629?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item3a7d3d7c15




I can still hear some hiss of all my cans. Because I tend to always have an external amp attached, I just want the least amount of noise for my better amps.

And I have my ps3 chat cable for the 5.8. Lol. I never use it, but with the Mixamp Pro, the same cable that powers it runs chat, less clutter. I dont have a need for wireless as I am always tethered to something anyways.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It'll be tough to tempt me with that price. I could get another SR-Lambda with SRD-7/SB for that much, with a little searching on the usual places.


 
  Would you please tell me where I might be able to find  a stax lambda with SRD-7/SB for $400? I tried google and the cheapest I found was one for nearly $1k on Amazon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think he looks for used ones.

Im tempted on trying a stax setup one day, but I'm *trying* to settle down with my audio setups, which is why I went with the Compass 2 as my all around dac/amp in a box, and Annie/HE400. The Philips Fidelio X1 is either a replacement for the HE400, or not, but after that, I really dont see myself buying another expensive headphone. I have been way too focused on audio, that I've neglected playing games that I wanna play. I haven't touched my Vita or 3DS in ages.

I really hate not having a physical keyboard. Typing like a noob. Ugh.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

While we're on the subject, would recommend a particular headphone for gaming with the PS Vita? I remember you mentioned the M50s in the OP. Is that it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, Vita is stereo only, and it's internal amp isn't very powerful. I will go the easy route as say the KSC35, if you can handle clip ons. The M50, CAL are both solid choices as well. Not sure which as far as open full sized headphones, as they tend to want amping, and amping the Vita isn't very logical.

Ideally, you will want an easy to drive can. As far as higher end, the D7000 would play quite well off the Vita, as it is easy to get to loud levels, and they sound great with or without an amp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I'm sorry, but that is just too technical for me, lol. I didn't understand some of that. I'm new to it all, if you didn't notice. Take it easy, lol. I did somewhat understand it though. All right then, there we go. So is that just it for headphones then? It's Stax vs the competition? lol. What I'm asking is, what are all the types of headphones? I realize there are closed, open, IEM, but this is completely new territory. If I'm to make an informed decision, I need to know what I have to work with.
> 
> 600v? I have no clue how much that is. I just don't wanna blow anything up, lol.
> 
> Yeah, I have no clue what some of that is, but my apologies. That's awesome  I understand.


 
   
  For electrostatic drivers, pretty much, unless you don't mind buying the other discontinued setups or the Koss ESP/950.
   
  While this seems like rocket science, it's really not that different from choosing dynamic/moving-coil/cone or orthodynamic/planar-magnetic designs, just another driver technology to throw into the mix. (And I didn't even bring up Heil AMT, piezoelectric, or plasma drivers yet!)
   
  The important thing that I have to drive home is that if you're going electrostatic, you have to get different amplification systems, and without the prerequisite amps, you won't be able to plug them into anything.
   
  Quote: 





i95north said:


> I don't know why but i just impulse  purchased the last Koss- EP-950 from amazon maybe because when last i checked it was very close to a grand and now its at $645 for me minus $40 with amazon points so i jumped on it.  If i like the electrostats i will keep them if not return em for a refund lol.. Wow so i wonder if i will cook my brain cells with 600 bias volts within an inch or so of my ears and side of head lol. So Nameless how is that Radiation dosage going at 200 volts lol..


 
   
  Nice score. I'm still kicking myself for not buying that $350 ESP-950 I saw on eBay a year or two ago, even though I didn't have the money at the time. (On the flip side, I discovered the $250 SR-Lambda + SRD-7/SB setup I'm using now not long after that...)
   
  I feel fine, thanks. Believe me, if these things were unsafe to wear, Stax would've been sued out of business a long time ago, and nobody else would bother to continue with electrostatic driver designs over the decades.
   
  On top of that, if radiation was that much of a concern, I'd be dead already between the Wi-Fi router, the cell phones, and all the CRTs in my house.
   
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Would you please tell me where I might be able to find  a stax lambda with SRD-7/SB for $400? I tried google and the cheapest I found was one for nearly $1k on Amazon.


 
   
  The thing is that, being a used, discontinued set of equipment, you need to hold out for deals that fall within your budget. The places to check are Head-Fi's own Buy/Sell/Trade section (where I got all of my Stax equipment thus far), eBay (though expect stiff competition from other bidders), and AudiogoN. I've seen several Lambda + SRD-7 setups sell for under $400, though getting one for $250 was probably a big fluke on my part.
   
  Also budget for both headphones and amp. Transformer boxes are cheap, and integrated receivers that can power them are numerous and thus affordable. Direct-drive amps cut down on the clutter and may sound better, but will often cost as much as a given Lambda model or more by themselves (that being around $350-600).
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think he looks for used ones.
> Im tempted on trying a stax setup one day, but I'm *trying* to settle down with my audio setups, which is why I went with the Compass 2 as my all around dac/amp in a box, and Annie/HE400. The Philips Fidelio X1 is either a replacement for the HE400, or not, but after that, I really dont see myself buying another expensive headphone. I have been way too focused on audio, that I've neglected playing games that I wanna play. I haven't touched my Vita or 3DS in ages.
> I really hate not having a physical keyboard. Typing like a noob. Ugh.


 
   
  Used equipment is the only way I can afford most higher-end tech products. (Or to be able to get them in the first place, like SU-DH1s, Normal bias SR-Lambdas and fully PS2-compatible CECHA PS3s, among numerous other discontinued products.)
   
  No physical keyboard? Are you typing all that from a smartphone? Reminds me of how I got a Galaxy S III as an early Christmas gift (took advantage of a Sprint BOGO deal with my mother; too bad they didn't bother extending said deal to the Galaxy Note II, the end-all be-all of smartphones for me) and I can browse Head-Fi pretty much everywhere now, but trying to type up lengthy posts like this without a physical keyboard seriously sucks.
   
  I've got a Bluetooth keyboard case on the way, though, so that should lessen the pain.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. I forgot to mention that I have the Galaxy Note II. Someone asked. This is my first no physical qwerty phone in like ages. I desperately want someone to make a pysical qwerty cover for it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. I forgot to mention that I have the Galaxy Note II. Someone asked. This is my first no physical qwerty phone in like ages. I desperately want someone to make a pysical qwerty cover for it.


 
   
  Brave man, I couldn't give it up. I got my wife one, but I had to go with the Galaxy Relay 4g. I really wish a company other than Verizon had quality qwerty phones. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  In regards to getting the least amount of noise from the mixamps, why don't you pick up a receiver? I have a Marantz SR 5002 I got practically brand new for cheap recently, and I can just about pop some ear drums before noticing any kind of noise. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I understand getting the chat mix working may be a slight task, but if you still have your SLYR audio mixer you could use it. That is the only reason I picked up a pair of those, lol. Speaking of which, anyone wanna buy a pair of SLYR headphones without the mixer? I've used them for about 5 minutes just to test out and If you are using a mixamp, you don't need the mixer anyways. $30 shipped to the USA.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats a helluva good price for the Slyr. Like he said, the Mixer is useless for those with Mixamps. The Slyr is a fine headset especially for that price.

As for not getting a receiver, its mainly because I want smaller stuff and more functionality. The only bulky thing allowed is my Compass 2, lol. I may even sell my 65" panny plasma.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thats a helluva good price for the Slyr. Like he said, the Mixer is useless for those with Mixamps. The Slyr is a fine headset especially for that price.
> As for not getting a receiver, its mainly because I want smaller stuff and more functionality. The only bulky thing allowed is my Compass 2, lol. I may even sell my 65" panny plasma.


 
   
  I'm not trying to make money, it will probably cost $15-$20 to ship anyways. I'm just trying to clear some room in my Study, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats for the original Note.


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless & Mad,
Would you be impressed to know that 99% of all my posts since you've met me have been from my iPad, using the on-screen keyboard? It's not the worlds fastest typing solution, but... I'm not the world's fastest writer, so it works out. My fingers are like halfway familiar with just how far to stretch and I almost have a touch typing method, though I usually sit funny and switch up my posture so I can't actually do the traditional ten-digit typist thing most of the time. Just sayin' 


SoAmusing,
I feel I ought to point out that I've never heard the Jecklin Floats, and I was compelled to write a complete BS review in the style of some of the more flamboyant reviews I've seen (and going even further). Literally BS too, if you read it again you'll notice there are several potty jokes, I tried to say something absurd to describe each common sound aspect. There were butts, peeing, my girlfriend breaking up with me... It was all for the laffs amigo. The guy in the chair was just some guy from google images... those are actually original K701s next to him, and the review the pic was from actually described the k701s pretty favorably next to the Jecklin. The reviewers may be a bit in the deep end of the pool though, though not deep enough to believe in "Brilliant Pebbles." Yet.

I have a wee bit more hair and am only 26


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> Thats for the original Note.




Dammit, I was hoping I edited that before you read it. I saw that and deleted it. lol

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahahah. Some people don't quite grasp joke posts like others. You have no idea how many times people take me seriously when I'm 100% not. I have that problem especially with texts. People take them to heart, and it doesn't help that I have a dry sense of humor, so it sounds serious. 

I eventually learned to place emotis all over my joke posts...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

burritoboy9984 said:


> Dammit, I was hoping I edited that before you read it. I saw that and deleted it. lol
> -Erik




No worries, it's only a matter of time. The Note II was a huge success for Samsung, and all main Carriers have it. People are gonna be craving for that physical qwerty.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Hahahah. Some people don't quite grasp joke posts like others. You have no idea how many times people take me seriously when I'm 100% not. I have that problem especially with texts. People take them to heart, and it doesn't help that I have a dry sense of humor, so it sounds serious.
> I eventually learned to place emotis all over my joke posts...




Emotes all over... You just gave me an idea. But I won't do it because the post is buried now. For now...






I totally just had a moment with the first 15 seconds of "Resistance" by Muse... And now I'm at the end where they ech.... Sorry, shivers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A moment, with the Qs? They can do that.


----------



## Evshrug

^ yes. It really can. Then a really lame Harry Nilsson song came on and ruined the whole feeling  "My good old desk" or something lame like that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha.

I really dig the Qs. My problem was that I have a lot of bass heavy music which wasnt one of the Q's strengths. Everything else though, absolutely glorious.

I will be interested in seeing just how much bass presence the Annie has over the Qs, as well as howow different they sound from one another. I'm only going off memory, but the Annie and Q really do have some difference. I'd still say the Q is more airy, as the Annie sounds like everything has been *bolded* fwih. As I always mentioned, thickness of sound leads to less air between the placement of sounds.

That's why even though the Q and old K have the same soundstage, the old K felt bigger due to a thinner, colder sound. The same can be said of the Annie vs Q.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> For electrostatic drivers, pretty much, unless you don't mind buying the other discontinued setups or the Koss ESP/950.
> 
> While this seems like rocket science, it's really not that different from choosing dynamic/moving-coil/cone or orthodynamic/planar-magnetic designs, just another driver technology to throw into the mix. (And I didn't even bring up Heil AMT, piezoelectric, or plasma drivers yet!)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, well, I don't even know much about that. I'm on simple terms. Omg, more? I know I know. I'll wait for a deal myself, but I have that Yammy receiver. A transformer box would work with it? Yeah, buying used/like new/refurb is the way to go most of the time. If that Note II is the end all be all, you just wait, lol. 1080p Amoled and octa cores coming this year O.o That's the end all, lol. I definitely feel you guys on the lack of a kb though. What is a keyboard case?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. I forgot to mention that I have the Galaxy Note II. Someone asked. This is my first no physical qwerty phone in like ages. I desperately want someone to make a pysical qwerty cover for it.


 
   
  That was me, lol. Wonderful pick, although lack of a physical keyboard sucks. That note II has the best specs out, IMO.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless & Mad,
> Would you be impressed to know that 99% of all my posts since you've met me have been from my iPad, using the on-screen keyboard? It's not the worlds fastest typing solution, but... I'm not the world's fastest writer, so it works out. My fingers are like halfway familiar with just how far to stretch and I almost have a touch typing method, though I usually sit funny and switch up my posture so I can't actually do the traditional ten-digit typist thing most of the time. Just sayin'
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Way to go. Loved it. I noticed it, but I just thought you were being creative. I knew some of it was blatant joking, but others, yeah, not so much. I see now though. It was hilarious. Haha, ah. Haha, good good. That's nice to hear they were compared favorably.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahahah. Some people don't quite grasp joke posts like others. You have no idea how many times people take me seriously when I'm 100% not. I have that problem especially with texts. People take them to heart, and it doesn't help that I have a dry sense of humor, so it sounds serious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I do, but alas, I had a headache and was tired as hell. I knew part of it was joking, but I honestly thought some of it was a really creative way to review them.Totally true though.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha.
> I really dig the Qs. My problem was that I have a lot of bass heavy music which wasnt one of the Q's strengths. Everything else though, absolutely glorious.
> I will be interested in seeing just how much bass presence the Annie has over the Qs, as well as howow different they sound from one another. I'm only going off memory, but the Annie and Q really do have some difference. I'd still say the Q is more airy, as the Annie sounds like everything has been *bolded* fwih. As I always mentioned, thickness of sound leads to less air between the placement of sounds.
> That's why even though the Q and old K have the same soundstage, the old K felt bigger due to a thinner, colder sound. The same can be said of the Annie vs Q.


 
  You and I are in the same exact boat.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No worries, it's only a matter of time. The Note II was a huge success for Samsung, and all main Carriers have it. People are gonna be craving for that physical qwerty.


 
   
  Yup. I crave it.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha.
> I really dig the Qs. My problem was that I have a lot of bass heavy music which wasnt one of the Q's strengths. Everything else though, absolutely glorious.
> I will be interested in seeing just how much bass presence the Annie has over the Qs, as well as howow different they sound from one another. I'm only going off memory, but the Annie and Q really do have some difference. I'd still say the Q is more airy, as the Annie sounds like everything has been *bolded* fwih. As I always mentioned, thickness of sound leads to less air between the placement of sounds.
> That's why even though the Q and old K have the same soundstage, the old K felt bigger due to a thinner, colder sound. The same can be said of the Annie vs Q.




I believe it, sounds like they took a step with the K-to-Q, and perhaps took an equal step in the same direction with the Q-to-Annie.
On one hand, the Annie looks gorgeous and I'm confident I'd love it because I love my Q's now, the new simplified headband, and the apparent human attention to detail as the Annie's are made in Austria (so are the Q's, or at least assembled there) by hand and hand inspected. The other thing is "limited edition!" and the suggestion that this is a limited run make me want to scramble before the production ends.
On the other hand though, every time I listen to the Q's for music and pleasure, I feel assured and the new toy voice quiets down to listen along... Lol!


SoAmusing, Mad, Nameless, Chico, Anyone,
Should I keep the subjective metaphors out of my actual upcoming reviews, or should I let a little of the emotional flavor in? On one hand I want to be taken seriously(ish) and provide some info that is genuinely helpful, but on the other hand it's so hard to separate emotion from music... I think that's kind of the point in the first place, for me. Well... I'm also a gear head, lol ^_^

Gee, I've got a lotta hands today.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, Evs did you edit in that Andy pic? Just saw it now. Lmao.

I did the same on facebook with the hipster girl.

"I love video games! "

Farmville


----------



## Evshrug

^_^

I'm really in a good mood tonight for some reason. Must be from relaxing to tunes. Too bad the girlfriend is away at a wedding, we'd be laughing together too. Especially at this Abba song that just came on, HAHA! Right after a Gnarls Barkley song about necromancy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to keep your subjective musings. There are plenty of objective impressions here. I find it hard not to sprinkle in some subjectivity. I know I can come off as highly opinionated and brutish. Lol, that transfers into my subjectivity.


----------



## calpis

The thing that I don't like about using the mixamp in a multi console setup (xbox/ps3) is that I want to have it just plugged into one console and just leave it alone, and you would think that console would be the PS3 but the PS3 doesn't have powered usb ports while it's in standby mode. I have a software bc PS3 btw, I have an original checha but that has a bad laser and won't read any bluray discs and I'm too lazy to order a new laser. So I just have it plugged into the xbox and replug it into the ps3 if needed.
   
  I love lamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lamp?

And yeah, the Mixamp is a PITA when having more than one console. Now that I mainly use just the PS3, I don't have to worry about having the USB plugged in if I had a wired Mixamp as my main.

We'll see what happens when the PS4/720 are out. Astro needs to get on it with HDMI enabling and multiple inputs.


----------



## calpis

Oh yeah, when you decide to sell off your ODAC, I'll probably take it off your hands. I gave my hifiman HM101 dac to my friend and all I have now is my xonar U1 which isn't exactly the best dac even though it does have DH.
   
  I really do need to sell off my vintage headphone collection, I'd be able to get most of the way to the Annies or X1 if I sold them all.
   
  I love carpet.


----------



## whiteshadow001

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you want a more open and competitive oriented headset, go for the PC360. If you want more fun, I'd upgrade to the new A40s... but actually, no. The A40 is a good headset, but I wouldn't buy it outside of it's bundle with the Mixamp. Seems overpriced if buying it alone.
> Man, I wanna hear the 2011 Mixamp. I would be willing to swap it for my 5.8, but I'd have to hear it first, lol.


 
  I really like the comfort of the A40's so I may just fork out the cash for them. The reason I need a new set is because the cable is starting to pull out of the left earcup. I use these alot at gaming events.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> Oh yeah, when you decide to sell off your ODAC, I'll probably take it off your hands. I gave my hifiman HM101 dac to my friend and all I have now is my xonar U1 which isn't exactly the best dac even though it does have DH.
> 
> I really do need to sell off my vintage headphone collection, I'd be able to get most of the way to the Annies or X1 if I sold them all.
> 
> I love carpet.




Ah, I see what youre doing. How could I forget such a classic? Loved it. 

Cool, I will sell it to you as soon as I get my Compass 2 and compare the dac for like a day. $90 good? I will more than likely bundle it up with the HE400 to save on the shipping. I was gonna sell it for $100 anyways.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ah, I see what youre doing. How could I forget such a classic? Loved it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet  Sounds good to me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.head-fi.org/t/644188/wanted-akg-k702-q701

Sell, sell, boys! 

In other news, I started using the A40s after having worn the Annies for an hour. Jesus...don't go from a open headphone to a closed sounding headset so fast, lol. I couldn't hear the details anymore, lol. Quite a jarring change of audio fidelity.

I don't blame the A40s, just... the Annie is a damn monster.


----------



## Hailin

Ok I ordered the Annies. Damn you all specially you Mad LOL. I just want a different sound to the Beyers and they are limited. /shrug. The price was right. So now I will have both special editions. My Beyer will be a nice closed upgrade to my CALs. CALs will become my closed portable for walking.
   
  I also ordered a pair of SHR940 pads to try on the CALs if they don't fit or sound good I will put them on the HM5s and sell them. That will hopefully help move the sale along.
   
   I am done with headphones for at least 12mons. /knocking on wood with fingers crossed. God I hope the X1s don't come to Canada.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless & Mad,
> Would you be impressed to know that 99% of all my posts since you've met me have been from my iPad, using the on-screen keyboard? It's not the worlds fastest typing solution, but... I'm not the world's fastest writer, so it works out. My fingers are like halfway familiar with just how far to stretch and I almost have a touch typing method, though I usually sit funny and switch up my posture so I can't actually do the traditional ten-digit typist thing most of the time. Just sayin'


 
   
  I've gotta admit, I'm impressed that you'd type up so much on these forums using a virtual keyboard of any sort. Don't your fingers ache from mashing them against an unmoving, solid surface like that?
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. I forgot to mention that I have the Galaxy Note II. Someone asked. This is my first no physical qwerty phone in like ages. I desperately want someone to make a pysical qwerty cover for it.


 
   
  Lucky you...I wanted one of those so badly, but for whatever reason, nobody bothers putting them on sale. Especially not Sprint.
   
  Large screens make touchscreens more tolerable to use, at least. The GS3's keyboard is usable in portrait mode, while a typical iPhone's keyboard isn't. Still, I don't like virtual keyboards eating into my valuable screen space like that, almost as much as I hate not having tactile feedback.
   
  Also, as wide as the Galaxy Note II is, I hope any prospective keyboard cases are portrait sliders since I would use it in portrait orientation most of the time anyway. That also makes the whole "blocking off the camera and rear loudspeaker" design issue much less complicated.
   
  Still, it's hard to resist the Note's sheer screen size and power...and that Wacom digitizer. That's what makes it PDA 2.0, like the sort of device the Newton MessagePads were trying to be, but the technology available in the mid-1990s wasn't advanced enough.
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Yeah, well, I don't even know much about that. I'm on simple terms. Omg, more? I know I know. I'll wait for a deal myself, but I have that Yammy receiver. A transformer box would work with it? Yeah, buying used/like new/refurb is the way to go most of the time. If that Note II is the end all be all, you just wait, lol. 1080p Amoled and octa cores coming this year O.o That's the end all, lol. I definitely feel you guys on the lack of a kb though. What is a keyboard case?
> 
> That was me, lol. Wonderful pick, although lack of a physical keyboard sucks. That note II has the best specs out, IMO.


 
   
  Yeah, a typical SRD-series transformer box would work. Just connect the wires to the speaker terminals on the back, set the inputs accordingly, and you're good. The only thing is that Silent Cinema probably won't be of much use over the speaker outputs, but you could always connect the output of a standalone headphone surround processor to one of the receiver's RCA inputs.
   
  Even higher-res screens and more processing power as usual is nice, but as for me: no Wacom, no sale. The GS3 is an exception because it was as much an early Christmas gift for my mother as it was for me, but don't be surprised if you find me upgrading to the inevitable Note III or IV once Samsung releases a Sprint variant. (Or, if I don't upgrade until after my contract is over, I might jump ship to T-Mobile. Haven't decided yet, but it largely depends on device availability and who has the better unlimited data plan.)
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd still say the Q is more airy, as the Annie sounds like everything has been *bolded* fwih. As I always mentioned, thickness of sound leads to less air between the placement of sounds.
> That's why even though the Q and old K have the same soundstage, the old K felt bigger due to a thinner, colder sound. The same can be said of the Annie vs Q.


 
   
  So it's safe to say that airier headphones skew more toward competitiveness, while thicker headphones skew more toward fun?
   
  If there's one reason I love the Lambda models in general, it's all that "air". Almost sounds like the atmosphere itself is singing, with the sound floating into your ears instead of being thrown in. Coincidentally, it also brings out those positional audio cues like few others can.
   
  As strange as it sounds when you're just reading it on a forum, it makes sense immediately when you can get a first-hand audition.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You have to keep your subjective musings. There are plenty of objective impressions here. I find it hard not to sprinkle in some subjectivity. I know I can come off as highly opinionated and brutish. Lol, that transfers into my subjectivity.


 
   
  I'll admit, I get kind of worried about my subjectivity sometimes, even if that's the only way I can really compare audio equipment most of the time without having trained audiophile ears and knowing exactly what people mean when they start flinging audiophile jargon around.
   
  Heck, I might have turned off a few people from the SR-202 already because of my comparisons and preference for midrange emphasis, which its great-great-grandfather excels at. It's not a bad headphone per se, but didn't have what I in particular was looking for. Ever felt that way about particular headphone models?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Lol, we are always justifying things.


 
  Unless you're in the music, or general audio industry, spending $500 on a pair of headphones is a luxury.
   



mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha.
> I really dig the Qs. My problem was that I have a lot of bass heavy music which wasnt one of the Q's strengths. Everything else though, absolutely glorious.
> I will be interested in seeing just how much bass presence the Annie has over the Qs, as well as howow different they sound from one another. I'm only going off memory, but the Annie and Q really do have some difference. I'd still say the Q is more airy, as the Annie sounds like everything has been *bolded* fwih. As I always mentioned, thickness of sound leads to less air between the placement of sounds.
> That's why even though the Q and old K have the same soundstage, the old K felt bigger due to a thinner, colder sound. The same can be said of the Annie vs Q.


   
  Let me know how your bass heavy music fares with the Annie.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They do great, which is why im so in love with them. I didnt expect them to have a solid bass response. More than the Qs, sure, but not this solid.


----------



## TMRaven

One review said they have new and improved pads sporting memory foam.  I wonder if you were to get those same pads, and put them on a Q701, if you would see similar improvements in the bass.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> Hahahah. Some people don't quite grasp joke posts like others. You have no idea how many times people take me seriously when I'm 100% not. I have that problem especially with texts. People take them to heart, and it doesn't help that I have a dry sense of humor, so it sounds serious.
> I eventually learned to place emotis all over my joke posts...




Have you tried Swype and/or Swiftkey?

Swype isn't for everyone, and there's a learning curve for the shortcuts and other stuff (without them it's just a pain to use)... The other Swype-like keyboards out there can't quite match it either. I honestly type quicker with one hand and Swype than I do with two and any landscape hardware QWERTY tho (I've actually timed myself).

Swiftkey's easier to pick up and learn (not to mention you can actually get it at the Play store), maybe not quite as intuitive for one handed use but it gets better the more you use it, it's what I've been using on my tablet. They're both large improvements on stock IMO, both save you a lot of tapping/stress.


----------



## Impulse

tmraven said:


> One review said they have new and improved pads sporting memory foam.  I wonder if you were to get those same pads, and put them on a Q701, if you would see similar improvements in the bass.




I'm really curious to read a direct A/B comparison to the Q's and/or some Frankenstein part mix and match like that.


----------



## Evshrug

calpis said:


> The thing that I don't like about using the mixamp in a multi console setup (xbox/ps3) is that I want to have it just plugged into one console and just leave it alone, and you would think that console would be the PS3 but the PS3 doesn't have powered usb ports while it's in standby mode. I have a software bc PS3 btw, I have an original checha but that has a bad laser and won't read any bluray discs and I'm too lazy to order a new laser. So I just have it plugged into the xbox and replug it into the ps3 if needed.
> 
> I love lamp.




I love chair? I missed the "classic" 
Could you use a powered USB hub? I've been suggesting that to people that want to keep their Recon3D plugged optical into Xbox and USB into a computer that doesn't provide power to those ports while turned off. Should be a relatively cheap add-on, side benefit of a place to charge phones and all our USB-charged junk  probably would work with PS3, as the Rockband instrument adapters are basically USB hubs with a wireless pairing to the "instrument."


Nameless,
I don't press hard, my fingertips absorb the impact fine. I actually got a cellphone that splits for a landscape orientation qwerty keyboard because I send a lot of texts, and I was surprised to hate it. The buttons are far better than those flat ones in the early Droid phones (are they still like that?) and respond pretty well, but I HAVE to use two hands (two thumbs) and be looking at it to type accurately, I'd much rather be using T9 for short texts cuz I can do that one handed, quickly, without looking at the keys. Typing my longer Head-Fi messages, obviously the bigger IPad screen provides more comfort and allows more than two fingers to type and is the minimal I would consider for longer messages, but still I did a fair amount of abbreviated notes and texting on my iPod Touch before I sold it (to help fund the Q701). I think the main point of adjustment for people going from physical keys to touchscreen is adjusting how hard you tap (you just need to touch it), and let word check help you out if you miss your aim on one letter.

I love my Wacom tablet ^_^


----------



## chicolom

...bluetooth keyboard...


----------



## Sheik Yerbutay

Just a quick thanks to MLE and Chico for answering my questions and helping us all out with your knowledge!
   
  I finally got all of my gear (Q701's, Magni/Modi and Mixamp Pro 2013) and have been enjoying it immensely all weekend. No disappointments (other than the occasional audio dropout with the Mixamp when gaming on Xbox) and my 24/96 flac files sound superb with these cans


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I believe it, sounds like they took a step with the K-to-Q, and perhaps took an equal step in the same direction with the Q-to-Annie.
> On one hand, the Annie looks gorgeous and I'm confident I'd love it because I love my Q's now, the new simplified headband, and the apparent human attention to detail as the Annie's are made in Austria (so are the Q's, or at least assembled there) by hand and hand inspected. The other thing is "limited edition!" and the suggestion that this is a limited run make me want to scramble before the production ends.
> On the other hand though, every time I listen to the Q's for music and pleasure, I feel assured and the new toy voice quiets down to listen along... Lol!
> SoAmusing, Mad, Nameless, Chico, Anyone,
> ...


 
   
  I agree with what Mad said. Go with what you feel. Be objective, but throw a little creative subjectivity in there  It is emotional :')


----------



## Evshrug

Hey Sheik!
Good for you! 
It's a pretty big difference, huh? Btw, how do you like the mini-Shiit stack with the Q701?



ttnk said:


>




OMG did Mad say he was thinking of selling the 65" plasma? I mean, that's too big for me, but... I'd only get a smaller Panasonic plasma instead 


SoAmusing,
Thank you ( ':


----------



## Sheik Yerbutay

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey Sheik!
> Good for you!
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Honestly its the first pair of headphones Ive had in decades, although I do use my Shure E5's when I travel. The setup is simply amazing  While waiting for my Schiit to arrive I was listening through the headphone jack from my AVR ( it has headphone surround) but it left much to be desired. Once I got the Magni, the 701's really came to life!
   
  That being said, I have been spoiled with using my 5.1 Home Theater system for so I wanted to get as close as possible (within a budget) to that experience. Im not disappointed


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lamp?
> And yeah, the Mixamp is a PITA when having more than one console. Now that I mainly use just the PS3, I don't have to worry about having the USB plugged in if I had a wired Mixamp as my main.
> We'll see what happens when the PS4/720 are out. Astro needs to get on it with HDMI enabling and multiple inputs.


 
   
  I'd be extremely interested in the Mixamp if they'd make it with HDMI. That way I could have my receiver, with Silent Cinema, and Dolby headphone at the same time, while supporting PCM on DH and chat volume control. If anything, if I'm not using SC on my receiver, it could be doing everything else.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/644188/wanted-akg-k702-q701
> Sell, sell, boys!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thankfully, I bought mine during the Holiday window directly from Amazon, so I can just return it for a full refund, minus the $6 or so shipping  Buying the Annie's Friday.
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> Ok I ordered the Annies. Damn you all specially you Mad LOL. I just want a different sound to the Beyers and they are limited. /shrug. The price was right. So now I will have both special editions. My Beyer will be a nice closed upgrade to my CALs. CALs will become my closed portable for walking.
> 
> I also ordered a pair of SHR940 pads to try on the CALs if they don't fit or sound good I will put them on the HM5s and sell them. That will hopefully help move the sale along.
> 
> I am done with headphones for at least 12mons. /knocking on wood with fingers crossed. God I hope the X1s don't come to Canada.


 
   
  Good man. You'll be more than happy I'm sure  Lol. I'm done after this too, until I find a great universal IEM or a deal for some STAX come along.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I've gotta admit, I'm impressed that you'd type up so much on these forums using a virtual keyboard of any sort. Don't your fingers ache from mashing them against an unmoving, solid surface like that?
> 
> 
> Lucky you...I wanted one of those so badly, but for whatever reason, nobody bothers putting them on sale. Especially not Sprint.
> ...


 
   
  I wonder the same Nameless. I'm also impressed, lol. You and I are on the exact same page as far as the KB goes. Again with the tech stuff, lol. What is a Wacom digitizer? lol. Power and size? Wait for this years octa-cores and 1080p AMOLED. Perfection  Good to know. Okay, so are you saying I would have to RCA with the STAX on my receiver? What about a mixamp? lol. Doesn't T-mo have the best unlimited data plan since it's truly unlimited? I'd have to say your query is just about right. I'm interested in the Lambda's as well. It makes sense  Glad to hear I'm not the only one that gets a little lost, lol. Haha, great great grandfather. I love how STAX have withstood the test of time. Yes, of course, we all have. I don't like the bass on the Q's.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Unless you're in the music, or general audio industry, spending $500 on a pair of headphones is a luxury.


 
  Yeah, I suppose it is, lol, but honestly, it's not that much money IMO. It's just money too 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They do great, which is why im so in love with them. I didnt expect them to have a solid bass response. More than the Qs, sure, but not this solid.


 
  Yayy, solid bass. Just what I wanted.
  Quote: 





tmraven said:


> One review said they have new and improved pads sporting memory foam.  I wonder if you were to get those same pads, and put them on a Q701, if you would see similar improvements in the bass.


 
  That is correct. I'd like to know this as well, but I'll still be buying the Annie's no matter what.
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Have you tried Swype and/or Swiftkey?
> Swype isn't for everyone, and there's a learning curve for the shortcuts and other stuff (without them it's just a pain to use)... The other Swype-like keyboards out there can't quite match it either. I honestly type quicker with one hand and Swype than I do with two and any landscape hardware QWERTY tho (I've actually timed myself).
> Swiftkey's easier to pick up and learn (not to mention you can actually get it at the Play store), maybe not quite as intuitive for one handed use but it gets better the more you use it, it's what I've been using on my tablet. They're both large improvements on stock IMO, both save you a lot of tapping/stress.


 
  Oooh. I never heard of swiftkey. Yeah, I like swype too, but still miss the keyboard.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> ...bluetooth keyboard...


 
  Lol.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





sheik yerbutay said:


> Just a quick thanks to MLE and Chico for answering my questions and helping us all out with your knowledge!
> 
> I finally got all of my gear (Q701's, Magni/Modi and Mixamp Pro 2013) and have been enjoying it immensely all weekend. No disappointments (other than the occasional audio dropout with the Mixamp when gaming on Xbox) and my 24/96 flac files sound superb with these cans


 
   
  That's great gear man! Although, I would have recommended the Mixamp 2011 version to you. Glad to hear it  lol, literally. Where do you get your FLAC files btw?
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey Sheik!
> Good for you!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ok, I can't hold it anymore. Shiit stack? LOLOLOL. I know you mean Schiit, but still, sounds the same. Ya, he did. Nice picture, hahaha. I would recommend an IPS monitor, or even an OLED TV/monitor, but those aren't out yet. They are due out this year though! So excited! It will make all other TV's obsolete  You'reeee welcome.
  Quote: 





sheik yerbutay said:


> Honestly its the first pair of headphones Ive had in decades, although I do use my Shure E5's when I travel. The setup is simply amazing  While waiting for my Schiit to arrive I was listening through the headphone jack from my AVR ( it has headphone surround) but it left much to be desired. Once I got the Magni, the 701's really came to life!
> 
> That being said, I have been spoiled with using my 5.1 Home Theater system for so I wanted to get as close as possible (within a budget) to that experience. Im not disappointed


 
  Lol, that's a LONG time. Funny you mention the E5's. I was interested in those before I joined Head-fi, as my mobile headphone. How are they? How are they compared to the Q? Ever game with them? You even mention them just lightly. Those are extremely nice IEM's. I'd say they are the best universal IEM on the market right now, bar the K3003, but that is a bit much. Which AVR do you have? You all already have me interested highly in DH. I'm just waiting on a HDMI version of the mixamp or something alike.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, btw, anyone have any other recommendations for a mic adapter so I can use the Modmic on the PS3? Should I use a cheapy USB soundcard? The last adapter I had that I used with the Psyko Carbon headphone mic made the mic sound distorted/high pitched.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> Hey, btw, anyone have any other recommendations for a mic adapter so I can use the Modmic on the PS3? Should I use a cheapy USB soundcard? The last adapter I had that I used with the Psyko Carbon headphone mic made the mic sound distorted/high pitched.




Aw blast, I didn't even realize I forgot the C. Oh well, only said what we all think when we read it anyway. Serious marketing balls of steel there.

I like IPS monitors, they do pretty well. I haven't seen OLED screens before (though I thought some DSLR cameras had them?). However, I have NEVER seen picture quality like I get with my Panasonic Plasma. Panasonic inherited (bought) Pioneer's Plasma tech, which was the best in the world. Samsung has developed their plasmas to be very good and almost as great as the Panasonic/Pioneer sets, but... Well, my 42" plasma really astounds me.

This is a completely serious review: all LCD HDTVs (even the best LEDs from Samsung & Sony) look a little gray to me in comparison, and my plasma just has this "Pop!" to the richness of the color because of the contrast. I love silver-emulsion prints, but I was so impressed with seeing my photography on my Plasma that I incorporated it into my senior art show for college. Turn off all the image enhancing and feed it a native resolution signal, and the plasma has less lag and more distinct motion for gaming second only to CRT TVs. There are also a lot of myths about Plasma TVs... If you look up power consumption, they consume less watts than a chandelier, image burn-in is only about as likely as on a CRT TV (mfrs also implement prevention and "clearing" tools), and they last for 100,000 hours. If you use the TV for 8 hours a day, every day, the Plasma would be only able to reach half-brightness by 30 years. 30 years is a long time for TVs, at least in this day where the next "big upgrade! :eek:" is right around the corner.

The only negative, at least some people say, is that if you take a still image and slowly pan it (slide or zoom the image around), sometimes you see a "screen door" effect between the pixels. It's subtle though, and I'm sure that Panasonic has improved on that (higher pixel density helps). I don't see it on my set, 720p at 42", that I got for $400 two years ago while working at Sears (yay employee discount!). Oh, and you have to keep it upright, even during brief transport. My next computer monitor will be an IPS, professionally calibrated, but if I had to get another TV right now it would be a Panny Plasma.

It's sitting in a box in our basement right now :'(

As far as a mic adapter... I'm not sure? The Recon3D transmits PS3 chat audio over USB 
Couldn't you just plug in a USB mic that has it's own stand or something? I don't know, I don't have a PS3 so I can't experiment 
How would you use a Mixamp or whatever processor through HDMI anyway? Would it have HDMI Input *and* output, so you can pass the video signal along? At that point you're basically using the processor like a receiver, anyway. I guess I wish more that companies selling receivers would improve their headphone surround processing :/ Silent Cinema is almost there, my preference would just be they diminished the reverb/echo and... Nope, that's pretty much it.

Mad, in case you ever wondered, Silent Cinema (lol I keep trying to type "Scilent Cinema") sounds almost just like DH in the (in)famous Crysis 2 YouTube vid, except you can adjust the tone and amount of reverb (haven't tried turning the "Action Game" DSP strength down all the way yet, I decided at some point that I could live with -3 "dB").

Somebody's killing a guitar downstairs! :eek:


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Aw blast, I didn't even realize I forgot the C. Oh well, only said what we all think when we read it anyway. Serious marketing balls of steel there.
> I like IPS monitors, they do pretty well. I haven't seen OLED screens before (though I thought some DSLR cameras had them?). However, I have NEVER seen picture quality like I get with my Panasonic Plasma. Panasonic inherited (bought) Pioneer's Plasma tech, which was the best in the world. Samsung has developed their plasmas to be very good and almost as great as the Panasonic/Pioneer sets, but... Well, my 42" plasma really astounds me.
> This is a completely serious review: all LCD HDTVs (even the best LEDs from Samsung & Sony) look a little gray to me in comparison, and my plasma just has this "Pop!" to the richness of the color because of the contrast. I love silver-emulsion prints, but I was so impressed with seeing my photography on my Plasma that I incorporated it into my senior art show for college. Turn off all the image enhancing and feed it a native resolution signal, and the plasma has less lag and more distinct motion for gaming second only to CRT TVs. There are also a lot of myths about Plasma TVs... If you look up power consumption, they consume less watts than a chandelier, image burn-in is only about as likely as on a CRT TV (mfrs also implement prevention and "clearing" tools), and they last for one or two decades (100,000 hours, I think).
> The only negative, at least some people say, is that if you take a still image and slowly pan it (slide or zoom the image around), sometimes you see a "screen door" effect between the pixels. It's subtle though, and I'm sure that Panasonic has improved on that (higher pixel density helps). I don't see it on my set, 720p at 42", that I got for $400 two years ago while working at Sears (yay employee discount!). Oh, and you have to keep it upright, even during brief transport. My next computer monitor will be an IPS, professionally calibrated, but if I had to get another TV right now it would be a Panny Plasma.
> ...


 
  Haha. No doubt. OLED is on a lot of Samsung phones and the note II. It's the best tech out there for screens. IPS vs Plasma? Interesting. Yeah, I had a Vizio plasma. Heavy, hot, and it went out over time. It was pretty nice looking though! Only 720p too. A better one would do. If I ever look into it again, I'll look for a Panny! What happened to Pioneer though? I know what you mean about the greyness. You brought your TV to school? lol. Well then, I feel bad now. I should have gotten a Plasma. I knew about the myths. Wow, that's not a whole lotta power. Hmm, I think I didn't get a plasma due to the size. I couldn't find anything smaller than 32". I want a 1080p plasma too. Well, that works then. Nice price! Ah, I see. Sounds good! I got the LG IPS. It's in my profile. OLED is the best though. Why is it sitting down there?
   
  Recon 3D is like $100 though. Too much for just wanting to get my mic working on the PS3. Yes, but I wanna use the modmic. I guess it would have to? Ask Mad how he thinks Astro would do it, lol. Yes, the reverb echo is definitely something I noticed immediately. What would happen if it was turned down all the way? What do you prefer though? Silent Cinema or the Mixamp?


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> Haha. No doubt. OLED is on a lot of Samsung phones and the note II. It's the best tech out there for screens. IPS vs Plasma? Interesting. Yeah, I had a Vizio plasma. Heavy, hot, and it went out over time. It was pretty nice looking though! Only 720p too. A better one would do. If I ever look into it again, I'll look for a Panny! What happened to Pioneer though? I know what you mean about the greyness. You brought your TV to school? lol. Well then, I feel bad now. I should have gotten a Plasma. I knew about the myths. Wow, that's not a whole lotta power. Hmm, I think I didn't get a plasma due to the size. I couldn't find anything smaller than 32". I want a 1080p plasma too. Well, that works then. Nice price! Ah, I see. Sounds good! I got the LG IPS. It's in my profile. OLED is the best though. Why is it sitting down there?
> 
> Recon 3D is like $100 though. Too much for just wanting to get my mic working on the PS3. Yes, but I wanna use the modmic. I guess it would have to? Ask Mad how he thinks Astro would do it, lol. Yes, the reverb echo is definitely something I noticed immediately. What would happen if it was turned down all the way? What do you prefer though? Silent Cinema or the Mixamp?




I believe iPads use IPS too? Ignoring the iPad 3 & 3.5's "retina" resolution, I'm more impressed by the best Plasma display tech. However, IPS is clearly superior for portables and computer workstation monitors. Any extra battery life is a boon, and so is thin/light. When I was looking for an HDTV, I couldn't find any Plasmas smaller than 42". You've gotta choose based on the application.

Here's an article that breaks it down for you: http://hdguru.com/the-case-for-plasma-vs-ledlcd-hdtv/9373/

I read one site where a $4,500 local dimming LED (Sharp Elite) outperformed the contrast ratio of a Panasonic plasma... costing $1,300. And the improvement is very small. And that doesn't take into account refresh rate (600 Hz, a DisplayPort input would be ah-MAZEing!) and viewing angles and all that Plasmas do.

Pioneer, I guess, just decided during the terribad economy to stop making Plasmas (the 720p Kuro was their famous set) and sell it. Panasonic bought. Pioneer is making a storm right now in the speaker sector however: their entry-level speakers are getting rave reviews as the best budget speakers.

You would have a better chance to test different SC settings than me right now, as my receiver is also boxed up in the basement. So are my speakers, and a lot of my stuff in general. My mom doesn't want me to "fully" move back in. But anyway, I haven't heard the Mixamp, my only DH experience comes from YouTube videos  I hope to make a THX TruStudio Pro sample for others so they can see what works best for them, soon as I figure out how to sync a "What U Hear" audio sample to a FRAPS recorded video, or something. Nameless is selling his Recon3D for $75, I think.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I believe iPads use IPS too? Ignoring the iPad 3 & 3.5's "retina" resolution, I'm more impressed by the best Plasma display tech. However, IPS is clearly superior for portables and computer workstation monitors. Any extra battery life is a boon, and so is thin/light. When I was looking for an HDTV, I couldn't find any Plasmas smaller than 42". You've gotta choose based on the application.
> Here's an article that breaks it down for you: http://hdguru.com/the-case-for-plasma-vs-ledlcd-hdtv/9373/
> I read one site where a $4,500 local dimming LED (Sharp Elite) outperformed the contrast ratio of a Panasonic plasma... costing $1,300. And the improvement is very small. And that doesn't take into account refresh rate (600 Hz, a DisplayPort input would be ah-MAZEing!) and viewing angles and all that Plasmas do.
> Pioneer, I guess, just decided during the terribad economy to stop making Plasmas (the 720p Kuro was their famous set) and sell it. Panasonic bought. Pioneer is making a storm right now in the speaker sector however: their entry-level speakers are getting rave reviews as the best budget speakers.
> ...


 

 Go look up OLED. Seriously. It will put CRT, Plasma, everything to shame. Man, too big. Way too big. I heard of the Kuro. I see. Okayy. Still though, a C-media mic2usb is like 5 to 10 dollars. I don't need that entire thing just for my mic, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

I like 42" from my couch. It does feel large, but not in a bad way.

How's this for power? From Panasonic's most popular 42" current model:
http://www.panasonic.com/includes/docs/pdf/energy-guide/PKUU_TQF2AA628_TC-P42S30_FTC_LABEL_outline.pdf


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I like 42" from my couch. It does feel large, but not in a bad way.
> How's this for power? From Panasonic's most popular 42" current model:
> http://www.panasonic.com/includes/docs/pdf/energy-guide/PKUU_TQF2AA628_TC-P42S30_FTC_LABEL_outline.pdf


 
   
  It's irrelevant. It's too big. I'm gonna be sitting 5feet or less from the screen. I'll be using it like a monitor.


----------



## Hailin

I won't buy another Panny plasma until they fix the image retention issues. Having the Borderlands 2 UI burnt into my st30 for 3 weeks was terrifying. My next tv will be a Samsung and still a plasma unless Panny steps up. Bring on 4k res Plasmas.  OLED will have to come down way in price before I would touch it.


----------



## Sheik Yerbutay

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> That's great gear man! Although, I would have recommended the Mixamp 2011 version to you. Glad to hear it  lol, literally. Where do you get your FLAC files btw?
> 
> Lol, that's a LONG time. Funny you mention the E5's. I was interested in those before I joined Head-fi, as my mobile headphone. How are they? How are they compared to the Q? Ever game with them? You even mention them just lightly. Those are extremely nice IEM's. I'd say they are the best universal IEM on the market right now, bar the K3003, but that is a bit much. Which AVR do you have? You all already have me interested highly in DH. I'm just waiting on a HDMI version of the mixamp or something alike.


 
  I have a huge collection of bootlegs (~3TB worth) that I have collected for the last 15 years or so. Lots through trades as well as a few servers (dimeadozen, Live Music Archive, and a few private servers) and I rip all of my cd's to flac as soon as I get them.
   
  Yeah the E5's are amazing! I travel too much not to have something decent to listen to music with. I use them with a Rio Karma and even though its somewhat dated, it seems to drive them fine and natively plays flac files.  Never gamed with them only because I have my home theater system to rumble the house hahaha. My AVR is the Pioneer VSX-53 and it has what they call Headphone Surround but it just doesnt compare to the Magni and Mixamp. I run hdmi from my xbox to the AVR but Im guessing the headphone amp is just really lacking to adequately drive these bad boys.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I won't buy another Panny plasma until they fix the image retention issues. Having the Borderlands 2 UI burnt into my st30 for 3 weeks was terrifying. My next tv will be a Samsung and still a plasma unless Panny steps up. Bring on 4k res Plasmas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Op. That's no good. 4k res? Are you kidding me? Useless. Yeah, it's really expensive, but wasn't every other tech expensive when it first came out? Yes.
  Quote: 





sheik yerbutay said:


> I have a huge collection of bootlegs (~3TB worth) that I have collected for the last 15 years or so. Lots through trades as well as a few servers (dimeadozen, Live Music Archive, and a few private servers) and I rip all of my cd's to flac as soon as I get them.
> 
> Yeah the E5's are amazing! I travel too much not to have something decent to listen to music with. I use them with a Rio Karma and even though its somewhat dated, it seems to drive them fine and natively plays flac files.  Never gamed with them only because I have my home theater system to rumble the house hahaha. My AVR is the Pioneer VSX-53 and it has what they call Headphone Surround but it just doesnt compare to the Magni and Mixamp. I run hdmi from my xbox to the AVR but Im guessing the headphone amp is just really lacking to adequately drive these bad boys.


 

 Dang! I thought they were, lol. What do you travel for? Sweet. Well, I'd be curious to see what the E5's sound like with DH.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I wonder the same Nameless. I'm also impressed, lol. You and I are on the exact same page as far as the KB goes. Again with the tech stuff, lol. What is a Wacom digitizer? lol. Power and size? Wait for this years octa-cores and 1080p AMOLED. Perfection  Good to know. Okay, so are you saying I would have to RCA with the STAX on my receiver? What about a mixamp? lol. Doesn't T-mo have the best unlimited data plan since it's truly unlimited? I'd have to say your query is just about right. I'm interested in the Lambda's as well. It makes sense  Glad to hear I'm not the only one that gets a little lost, lol. Haha, great great grandfather. I love how STAX have withstood the test of time.


 
   
  Wacom, as you may know, is the dominant brand of standalone drawing tablets, commonly used in the digital art industry. The EMR (electro-magnetic resonance) digitizer technology that their standalone drawing tablets and Cintiq monitors are based on is also sold to third parties.
   
  The "S-Pen" feature that Samsung keeps touting in their Galaxy Note products? It's a Wacom Penabled digitizer, the exact same sort that Windows Tablet PCs made over the last decade and the Cintiq 15X and 17SX models use. You can even use the same pens on each of them, which doesn't usually happen with Wacom products; Penabled, Graphire, Bamboo, Intuos, and Cintiq pens aren't even interchangeable most of the time, even within each product line.
   
  It's actually kind of remarkable how competent vintage audio equipment can be by today's standards. People still seek out 1970s integrated receivers, particularly Sansui, Marantz, or Pioneer equipment. The Koss ESP models from that time period (ESP/6, ESP/9, ESP/10) also have a slight following, but generally weren't as favored as the Stax offerings from the same time. And for loudspeakers, there are the classic Quad ESL-57 and ESL-63 models that people will go to great lengths to refurbish if anything goes wrong with them.
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Go look up OLED. Seriously. It will put CRT, Plasma, everything to shame.


 
   
  As good as OLED tech can be, it's still a fixed-pixel technology and must have everything scaled to its native resolution. CRTs don't have that problem, being an analog technology, and it's part of the reason they make such excellent gaming displays. Remember, I'd like to have 240p signals from 5th-gen-and-prior consoles looking their best along with 4K on the same display, and resolution rescaling puts a damper in that.
   
  What I'd like to see is something that actually replicates the CRT's lack of native resolutions and next to nonexistent input lag without the need for a bulky vacuum tube. Lasers instead of electron guns might work...
   
  Believe me, if there was a worthy replacement for the GDM-FW900 out there, I'd be all over it in the blink of an eye. But we've had over a decade of display development, and no tech developed since has surpassed a top-tier aperture grille CRT like that _on all fronts_. You always have to deal with native resolutions and a bit more input lag, and the flat-panel displays with higher image quality (plasmas and IPS LCDs with RGB LED backlighting, mostly) usually have more input lag and lower response times with only 60 Hz refresh, while those with faster response times and refresh rates at 120 Hz or more (TN LCDs) have terrible image quality, especially when viewed off-axis.
   
  And to insult us even further, most of those current "120 Hz" HDTVs don't actually accept 120 Hz video signals, completely missing the point. You have to buy a PC monitor to be guaranteed that it'll deliver the advertised refresh rate, and even then, they're almost all TN LCDs and 1920x1080 resolution when I expect no less than 1920x1200, and would prefer 2560x1440 or even 2560x1600 if there was a video interface that could even handle those resolutions at 120 Hz. (2560x1600 at 60 Hz already requires a dual-link DVI connection, and I'm not sure about the limit for DisplayPort since it's a relatively new and unused interface.)
   
  Yeah, I've been rambling on for a while...still kind of sick about how technology has regressed in certain ways when I'm expecting complete progression. New technology is supposed to be better at every single thing, but things clearly don't pan out that way, do they?


----------



## Evshrug

Hailin,
Did you leave borderlands 2 on with the contrast dialed up to 100 for like a week straight? LoL! If I had the money, my own place, and not a plasma of my own, I would totally offer to buy that Plasma from you! As it is, I recommend you DON'T have contrast turned up all the way, in fact keep it dialed down to around 50-60 contrast for the first 100 hours, else you do risk burn-in and a shortening of the overall life of the display phosphorus. Like I said, image burn-in is only as likely as with a CRT, so give the screen (& yourself) a break every few hours, and don't leave a game paused while you go to school or sleep. You had to have had the game running for a few days to get burn-in as severe as you describe.



Nameless,
As I said, I love my Wacom tablet :3

Also agree it "would be" great if current HDTVs had the same native input "speed" as CRTs. Internal TV up scalers (or down scalers) are part of the lag, but so are other types of image processing (like contrast sharpening, noise reduction, etc). You already knew that, but _apparently,_ commercial "panels" like you might see in a mall (or abused in an airport) are stripped bare of all that processing overhead, and bring input lag down to very low levels. They're supposed to be the same panels as placed in consumer TVs and cheaper, but I didn't find a better deal than I got. That also explains part of why computer monitors have less lag than LCD HDTVs (I wanted to buy the hddvddhhvdhvvddvhdd so bad!).

Also, display port isn't as widely adopted as VGA and DVI, but it is easy to find models of graphics cards and monitors that feature the port. While HDMI is limited to only 60 Hz video refresh signal (and why TVs that advertise "smooth motion" 120hz must use that processing that creates fake 'tweener frames that IMO do more harm than good), Display Port supports 17.28 Gbit/s of effective video bandwidth, twice the bandwidth of HDMI and enough for four simultaneous 1080p60 displays (CEA-861 timings) or 2,560 × 1,600 × 30 bit @120 Hz (CVT-R timings). It also has the potential of driving 4k resolution monitors (why?), a feature introduced in January last year in ATI's HD7000 series graphics cards. Since Plasmas have a native 600 Hz refresh, IMO it would be awesome if they had display port connections. I guess that's not going to happen though, the majority of people like to sit close to their monitors rather than sit back and have the size scaled up to match. 

Personally, I'd like a nice large screen I can sit back from in a comfy chair (with some kind of ergonomic surface for keyboard & mouse/tablet, preferably something that can fold away like an airplane armrest table), hooked up to a powerful computer for serving up a variety of entertainment and work display (I'd like to be able to pace and consider my work like I do my paint canvases). That sounds ideal to me for a home setup. Then, a tablet for portable computing (and always a smartphone). Until we invent holographic displays that scale to any size from a small device, the previously description is my idea of the most seamless and comfortable computer setup.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Wacom, as you may know, is the dominant brand of standalone drawing tablets, commonly used in the digital art industry. The EMR (electro-magnetic resonance) digitizer technology that their standalone drawing tablets and Cintiq monitors are based on is also sold to third parties.
> 
> The "S-Pen" feature that Samsung keeps touting in their Galaxy Note products? It's a Wacom Penabled digitizer, the exact same sort that Windows Tablet PCs made over the last decade and the Cintiq 15X and 17SX models use. You can even use the same pens on each of them, which doesn't usually happen with Wacom products; Penabled, Graphire, Bamboo, Intuos, and Cintiq pens aren't even interchangeable most of the time, even within each product line.
> 
> ...


 
  I had no clue. Look at you. Just a little technologic dictionary. Well, that's really cool. Yup, I agree. Lots of things made then are better. It's stupid. Blame the market though. Are you sure OLED is fixed? Anyway, yeah, but OLED has an insane, everything! Response time, contrast ratio, power consumption, weight to performance, viewing angle, all of it. So I guess CRT beats it for older games? So you're saying that 240p comes in at 240p on your CRT? I don't get it. How do you even hook up a console to the GDM? OH my, yeah, I know that 120hz an on is just BS. Yes, it is sad about the regression.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Compass 2 is on it's way! I will be realistic and expect it here early next week.

Had a rough day yesterday with my insomnia.

Today is gonna be A40+Mixamp 2013 day.

I'm also gonna be using both the 5.8 and 2013 Mixamp + My SA-31 to see how they all sound with music to find out just how warm the 2013 Mixamp is, and how bright the 5.8 is compared to the SA-31 which is mostly neutral with some warmth.
*
Doing some frequency tests with the Mixamp 2013 via USB on my PC. The Mixamp distorts anything below 140hz. A shame. That's basically ALL the bass. Tried it with 3 headphones. All the same. It sounds like sticking a paper cup on a bicycle's spokes and going fast. Ah well. I need to figure out if it's just because of doing audio through USB or not.

update: It was. I ran a 3.5mm cable from my SA-31's headphone out to the Mixamp's mp3 input, and it no longer distorts. Good.*


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My Compass 2 is on it's way! I will be realistic and expect it here early next week.
> Had a rough day yesterday with my insomnia.
> Today is gonna be A40+Mixamp 2013 day.
> I'm also gonna be using both the 5.8 and 2013 Mixamp + My SA-31 to see how they all sound with music to find out just how warm the 2013 Mixamp is, and how bright the 5.8 is compared to the SA-31 which is mostly neutral with some warmth.
> Doing some frequency tests with the Mixamp 2013 via USB on my PC. The Mixamp distorts anything below 140hz. A shame. Tried it with 3 headphones. All the same. It sounds like sticking a paper cup on a bicycle's spokes and going fast. Ah well.


 
  I was looking at the Compass2 the other day when you brought it up. Looking at the inputs alone it looks like a solid winner. After this headphone spree I was on this weekend I will be looking at an amp next.
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hailin,
> Did you leave borderlands 2 on with the contrast dialed up to 100 for like a week straight? LoL! If I had the money, my own place, and not a plasma of my own, I would totally offer to buy that Plasma from you! As it is, I recommend you DON'T have contrast turned up all the way, in fact keep it dialed down to around 50-60 contrast for the first 100 hours, else you do risk burn-in and a shortening of the overall life of the display phosphorus. Like I said, image burn-in is only as likely as with a CRT, so give the screen (& yourself) a break every few hours, and don't leave a game paused while you go to school or sleep. You had to have had the game running for a few days to get burn-in as severe as you describe.


 
  I was a little addicted when I figured out the pirate vault glitch. I never left it on the screen static. I had the contrast at 83 (custom setting) yes a little high but ST series are well known for being darker then the other series of panny tvs. The 2011 and 2012 series both have been known to have image retention issues at least the ST as I witnessed with my own eyes. CNet did a IR/Burn-in test on the ST series and Samsung D550 series tvs. The Pannies failed horribly. I also bought a demo model (got it for a great price) so it was well past that 100 hour mark. So now I have my xbox set to 63 (looks ok but sort of dull in comparison.) for contrast and my PS3 at 83 for strictly movie watching.
   
  Honestly I wish I had kept my old Panny it was only 720p and only had one HDMI but that picture was stunning and natural and blew this new one out of the water. My friend still has it and got a stinking good deal and he like to tell me every month how much he adores the picture.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
*TLDR version:* Yah I sort of screwed up but didn't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I stopped worrying about burn in and image retention. My Panny 65ST30 always has some when I play games with bars and the like, but it goes away. The longest to remain were some boxes and life bar from Castlevania: Harmony of Despair, which I have logged in over 1000 hours on. I expected it, but since I have stopped playing, it is almost all nearly gone. You really only see the IR on static white backgrounds and certain shades of green anyways, and you have to be close to see it.

The C4 icon on Black Ops was also problematic as I always played that game. That has disappeared ages ago too.

If you're considering a plasma, expect some IR, but as long as you move on to other games/etc, it will eventually go away. If it's a game you see yoursel playing for months, then yes, it will remain a bit longer until you move on.


----------



## Evshrug

Hailin,
I assume you can turn the contrast back up a bit after those first 100 hours (83 is fine). I turned mine up. I've not had any serious burn-in yet, but then I average only 4-5 hours of gaming a day, the rest of the time the TV is off. I also run the black screen with white wiper if I've been playing a while, though it's just kind of an obsessive thing because I haven't really noticed much IR. My set was from 2010, I knew Panasonic was making changes to increase the maximum brightness in newer sets; that might've made IR a little more likely. My set is a TC-P42C2 (or just C2 series) model, pretty much the cheapest one at the time.

Mad,
Lords of Shadow? How did that take you so long!? :eek:
My roommate and I beat it in less than a week, it was a rental game for us.
Edit: oh, you mean some other Castlevania game. One of the super-hard 2D side scrolling classics, no doubt. I haven't played the side scrollers, but from what I hear 1000 hours may be impressively short.
I'd like to play more games via the gamefly service, but then again... Skyrim.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I had no clue. Look at you. Just a little technologic dictionary. Well, that's really cool. Yup, I agree. Lots of things made then are better. It's stupid. Blame the market though. Are you sure OLED is fixed? Anyway, yeah, but OLED has an insane, everything! Response time, contrast ratio, power consumption, weight to performance, viewing angle, all of it. So I guess CRT beats it for older games? So you're saying that 240p comes in at 240p on your CRT? I don't get it. How do you even hook up a console to the GDM? OH my, yeah, I know that 120hz an on is just BS. Yes, it is sad about the regression.


 
   
  I thought I explained the Wacom thing clearly enough. Perhaps it would be easier to demonstrate it first-hand.
   
  OLED is a promising display tech for sure, but as I said, the native resolutions mean that everything has to be scaled or processed to that resolution, which adds a bit of input lag and forces you to choose between 1:1 (or 2:1 for really low resolutions) pixel mapping that leaves a lot of unused screen space, or a stretched image that has scaling artifacts (or, worse, does not take different aspect ratios into account).
   
  Yeah, what I meant by the CRT resolution thing is that you feed it 240p, and if it can sync to the signal, you get 240p. (It won't be mistaken for 480i, either; that trips up a lot of video processors.) You feed it 1080p, you get 1080p. This direct display process also helps keep the input lag down.
   
  The GDM-FW900, being a professional PC graphics monitor (these things cost $2,500 brand new!), has the typical DE-15 VGA port and a set of five BNC connectors for its second input. Different physical jacks, but still RGBHV interfaces (as well as RGsB, because Sony loves sync-on-green for some reason).
   
  I don't use it with my consoles at the moment because, like most VGA monitors, it cannot sync to 240p RGB signals (15 KHz horizontal sync, whereas most VGA monitors only accept 31 KHz at minimum), and component video requires a Y/Pr/Pb to RGB transcoder. HDMI would require an HDFury, as I've discussed before.
   
  However, I do have a planned workaround in installing a video capture card in my PC and using software with said card to view the captured video in real-time. This adds a bit of input lag, but I could record and stream my console games with ease. Even then, I could get around the input lag by adding a video splitter of some sort. (More reason to get an HDFury, I suppose, since later revisions do output both HDCP-free HDMI and VGA simultaneously.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Mad,
> Lords of Shadow? How did that take you so long!? :eek:
> My roommate and I beat it in less than a week, it was a rental game for us.
> Edit: oh, you mean some other Castlevania game. One of the super-hard 2D side scrolling classics, no doubt. I haven't played the side scrollers, but from what I hear 1000 hours may be impressively short.
> I'd like to play more games via the gamefly service, but then again... Skyrim.




Harmony of Despair is a multiplayer game, where up to 6 people run through 11 levels (chosen before starting). It's a game based enbtirely off loot and rare drops. Think of it like a side scrolling MMO or Borderlands, except each chapter can be as short as a minute if you're good enough, or if you run through every nook and cranny takes like 10 minutes each.

It's a LOT of fun, and every character gains their specials/levels in a different manner. The game is ADDICTING.

Came out on the 360 and PS3. The 360's came out a year longer and is quite empty. The PS3 one is a bit more lively but it's not as active as a like a few months ago. I've done everything in the game and then some, which is why I've clocked in so many hours. Some boss drops take an eternity to get. Lots of boss rushing.

Here's an example....

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kI0tkSHsgk[/VIDEO]


----------



## Vader2k

Just wanted to mention that my Magni arrived today.  Woohoo!  It's slightly smaller than I envisioned, actually.  Now if only I had some headphones for it... Most likely I'm gonna go with the K702 Annies, but I'll decided by friday.  I suppose I could try my PortaPros on it in the meantime...
   
  Anyway, back to the current discussion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Congrats on the Magni!

I'm currently writing my review of the A40s, then the Mixamp 2013 Edition. Spoiler being 7.5/7.5/7.5


----------



## Vader2k

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I was also surprised at how small the Magni and Modi were. Stacked together they are around the size as Fiio E9/E9K alone.


----------



## Vader2k

Yeah, I remember you mentioning that.  If I'm remembering the size of the Mixamp correctly (I'm at work), I'm guessing it's depth is about the same as the Magni's.  If so, I suppose I could sit the Mixamp on top of it.  But my "new gadget" paranoia will likely result in placing them side by side.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy ****, the browser JUST closed on me as I was writing the review.



I am PEEVED right now, that was like two hours of work...gone.


----------



## Vader2k

Ooh, not cool. Had you previewed it at any point during writing it up?  Your browser cache might have an earlier copy stored if you did.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Ugh. I KNEW I should have written it on the Notepad first. Sigh. My own stupid mistake.


----------



## Vader2k

Bummer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 You could take a gaming break, then come back to it later feeling refreshed!
   
  And hey, maybe the rewrite will allow you to come to additional conclusions to add to the review.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I was also surprised at how small the Magni and Modi were. Stacked together they are around the size as Fiio E9/E9K alone.


 
   
  OK, that's impressive, especially considering I keep hearing that the Magni is comparable in power to the E9. I may have to sell the MLE Limited Edition E9 that I have and pick up that set after moving in a few months. Alas, due to that and my wedding my wallet is locked away from my audio lust right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, that poor E9. That's a first gen! 

Take a pic of it, I wanna see what you did to the knob.


----------



## Impulse

Apparently the Philips X1 is gonna debut stateside at $250... If the Engadget CES blurb is accurate anyway.

That's quite the alluring pricepoint, pits it more against the Beyers, HD 598, and Q701 than something like the HE-400 or AKG Annie's. I'm more tempted than ever to pick 'em up once they're finally available, would love to be able to have both them and my DT 880 for a while to compare.

Plans to upgrade my HT front speakers and move the current ones to my room may have just flown out the window.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

REALLY? Hmm... looks like the HE-400 is on it's way out, hahaha. I won't be able to resist at that price point.

Boricua, representando. 

Rio Piedras, baby.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Apparently the Philips X1 is gonna debut stateside at $250... If the Engadget CES blurb is accurate anyway.


 
   
_"Of course, Phillips wouldn't forget headphones, and two models stood out to us the most. First up, the X1 is it's latest set of audiophile cans. These open-backed cans feature 50mm drivers and over-ear design, all of which are essentially par the course for this category. While we weren't able to asses the audio quality, we were pleased to find that the depth inside of the earcups is plentiful. This meant nothing was pushing against our ears, negating any fears of cartilage cramps for long listening sessions.* You can expect to pay $250 for 'em when they're available this month."*_
   
   
  Sweet!  I hope that price is correct.


----------



## chicolom

Schiit Magni/Modi Review:
  http://www.headfonia.com/schitty-magni-and-modi/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Schiit Magni/Modi Review:
> http://www.headfonia.com/schitty-magni-and-modi/




He puts too much stock on cables, saying 30 dollar printer style cables that aren't garbage. You gotta be kidding me.

Also I disagree about bass heavy headphones not pairing up well with the Magni. I think the clean sound it puts out helps bass heavy headphones which tend to muck up details. If anything, I woild stay away from treble heavy cans, as the Schiit stack is slightly treble heavy. It pairs up better with smooth headphones.


----------



## TMRaven

At least it's one of the guest reviewers.  I couldn't imagine all the kinds of tomfoolery we'd be reading if it were Mike.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm nearly done with the review of the A40 (Mixamp will have to come later), but I have other things to do, so it'll be put on hold until probably tomorrow. I'd say it's about 75% done.

I would have been done if it weren't for my browser crashing earlier. That NEVER happens to me. :rolleyes:


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He puts too much stock on cables, saying 30 dollar printer style cables that aren't garbage. You gotta be kidding me.


 
   
  I agree.
   
_"This $200 DAC and amp Combo becomes more like $250-275 when you factor the need for higher quality RCA cables for use with expensive headphones, as well as a decent USB cable for the Modi. *My cheap Monoprice RCA interconnects sound atrocious with the Magni and Modi.*"_
   





 *rolls eyes*   I doubt that.
   
  I've used a $0.99 RCA to 3.5mm interconnect I got at the dollar store and it didn't sound atrocious right next to my high quality SonicWave Dual RCA Interconnect.
   
  And there is no way in hell I'm paying over $30 for a USB cable.  I stick with my garbage USB cable.
   
   
  Reminds me of this:
  http://www.nordost.com/34/odin-supreme-reference-analog-interconnect
   
 Odin Supreme Reference Analog Interconnect  The Odin Supreme Reference Interconnect uses eight of our revolutionary Total Signal Control (TSC) tubes - each carrying a 23 AWG Dual Mono-Filament conductor with 85 microns of extruded silver over 99.99999% oxygen free copper. The eight conductors are precisely wound in a spiral pattern around a central spacer, which contains two extruded silver over OFC drain wires to create a cable of unprecedented consistency and geometrical precision, perfect shielding yet manageable flexibility. The ODIN Interconnect cables are offered with a special oversize 10 mm WBT NEXTGEN silver-plated copper RCA connector or, for balanced operation, a specially machined silver-plated Furutech XLR connector. These connectors offer a low-mass design that reduces eddy currents and produces the best available interface and impedance matching between the cable and the attached components.
   
_"The crazy thing is, that* even on a whole system costing less than a single pair of Odin interconnects* the benefits are so stunningly obvious!"_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rolling my eyes isn't enough. I need a facepalm paired up with a rolling eyes image.

Not completely finished, but here's most of it. Fixes and additions to come later.



> *Astro A40 (*headset*)*
> http://www.astrogaming.com/a40-audio-system-astro-edition
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference if any between the Sony GWD-FW900 and its HP counter part? I'm thinking of maybe buying one since I need a "new" monitor anyway. I've seen refurbed Sony models for ~$350. There's also the HP one going for ~$250.

Another question, will using an hdmi-to-VGA yield refresh rates higher than 60hz when used on ps3, or will it just be a waste of time?


Never mind, I think nameless answered my question. I think I'm going to need an hdfury adapder


----------



## NamelessPFG

roger de ceiba said:


> Can anyone tell me if there is a difference if any between the Sony GWD-FW900 and its HP counter part? I'm thinking of maybe buying one since I need a "new" monitor anyway. I've seen refurbed Sony models for ~$350. There's also the HP one going for ~$250.
> Another question, will using an hdmi-to-VGA yield refresh rates higher than 60hz when used on ps3, or will it just be a waste of time?
> Never mind, I think nameless answered my question. I think I'm going to need an hdfury adapder



The GDM-FW900 has been rebadged a few times, but the chassis (FD Trinitron G1W) is still the same, so they are practically the same monitor.

I don't think the PS3 natively outputs 120 Hz at all unless it's outputting a stereoscopic 3D signal. Even then, the FW900 can't handle 1080p at 120 Hz; 100 Hz is doable at that res, but you'd have to drop to 1600x900 or less to get 120 Hz. (Not like most PS3 games even run at 60 FPS or more these days; it's usually 30 FPS. Only PC games tend to run visibly over 60 FPS.)

Those prices seem reasonable; just make sure they don't have color balance or focus issues like most FD Trinitron monitors these days. Convergence problems can be solved with a USB TTL cable and WinDAS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually think its running two 30hz signals...ps3 I mean.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I thought I explained the Wacom thing clearly enough. Perhaps it would be easier to demonstrate it first-hand.
> 
> OLED is a promising display tech for sure, but as I said, the native resolutions mean that everything has to be scaled or processed to that resolution, which adds a bit of input lag and forces you to choose between 1:1 (or 2:1 for really low resolutions) pixel mapping that leaves a lot of unused screen space, or a stretched image that has scaling artifacts (or, worse, does not take different aspect ratios into account).
> 
> ...


 

  Never questioned that. Lol. It was great description. I guess, but, isn't that a moot point when the refresh rate is something insane? The pixel mapping/stretched image is no good though. Right. Hmm, so what do u use it for then?


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless,
Sony "loves" the green channel so much because it carries the most luminance data in an RGB signal. That's why all "Bayer Pattern" camera sensors are GRGB, only 2 camera sensor manufacturers use something different.

Higher refresh rates are moot for consoles, honestly I prefer 24 fps for movies over the higher stuff you see in soap operas and the new 48fps movie, The Hobbit (which is otherwise a great movie IMO, even for a huge fan of the book like me. Peter Jackson drew out some of the fight/escape scenes more than necessary though). HDTVs featuring higher than 60hz are just advertising useless marketing fluff. Display Port (and the related thunderbolt) are the way to go for computer monitors though.

Anyone know a good choice for an Xbox VGA cable? I noticed that on most of the 3rd party cables, people complain about ghosting problems.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He puts too much stock on cables, saying 30 dollar printer style cables that aren't garbage. You gotta be kidding me.
> Also I disagree about bass heavy headphones not pairing up well with the Magni. I think the clean sound it puts out helps bass heavy headphones which tend to muck up details. If anything, I woild stay away from treble heavy cans, as the Schiit stack is slightly treble heavy. It pairs up better with smooth headphones.


 

 MLE or anyone else with the first hand knowledge,
   
  Would you say the Magni will be good for the Q701/K702 Annie if its paired w/ the Mixamp Pro 2013 (and its includes EQs)?  I currently have the HD598 (love them but trying to get more bass and keep competitive score high) and just got the DT990 prem, 250ohm and Q701 to test w/ my AVR (Pioneer's Phones surround mode) as well as the E11.  The Mixamp Pro, Magni, and the Annie are all in transit w/ ETA of end of the week for even more testing.  I want to be sure I get the most favorable and enjoyable experience for PS3 Games and Movies exclusively.  Thanks to all for helping out this lurker.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, I just want the best picture possible. If I'm not mistaken, higher refresh rates are usually wanted for gaming in order to avoid ghosting and lag. Refresh rates and frames per second are independent of each other anyway.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I don't think the PS3 natively outputs 120 Hz at all unless it's outputting a stereoscopic 3D signal. Even then, the FW900 can't handle 1080p at 120 Hz; 100 Hz is doable at that res, but you'd have to drop to 1600x900 or less to get 120 Hz. (Not like most PS3 games even run at 60 FPS or more these days; it's usually 30 FPS. Only PC games tend to run visibly over 60 FPS.)


 
  Like you said most ps3 games run at 30fps. Still, I think a higher refresh rate will provide an image with a higher fidelity, correct?
   
  I wansn't able to extrapolate whether I would need the hdfury from this post or not. Maybe I'm just mentally exhausted, I need a rest...


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> REALLY? Hmm... looks like the HE-400 is on it's way out, hahaha. I won't be able to resist at that price point.
> Boricua, representando.
> Rio Piedras, baby.




Orly? Guaynabo here, que es la que? 




chicolom said:


> Schiit Magni/Modi Review:
> http://www.headfonia.com/schitty-magni-and-modi/




So many things in that review that make you go hmmm...


----------



## Impulse

roger de ceiba said:


> Well, I just want the best picture possible. If I'm not mistaken, higher refresh rates are usually wanted for gaming in order to avoid ghosting and lag. Refresh rates and frames per second are independent of each other anyway.




Two different things yes, but they do interact in a way. I don't think a higher refresh rate is much of a boon if it's just refreshing the same frame over and over because the game's running at very low fps.

I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about current gen consoles since I'm mostly into PC gaming these days, but when someone on that end gets a true 120Hz display it's usually with the intention of running the game at well over a constant 60fps.

Then you've got vsync and all that, no clue how consoles handle that tho I imagine it's more standardized since most games push the hardware pretty hard and there's less variety of display configurations.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Never questioned that. Lol. It was great description. I guess, but, isn't that a moot point when the refresh rate is something insane? The pixel mapping/stretched image is no good though. Right. Hmm, so what do u use it for then?


 
   
  Isn't it obvious? The GDM-FW900 is my primary PC monitor. Only a PC would really take advantage of its capabilities anyway. (2304x1440 at 80 Hz, and lower resolutions at up to 160 Hz, should give you an idea of why it's so sought-after.)
   
  Getting consoles hooked up to it just happens to be a side bonus. No need to waste money on an HDTV when the FW900 could do the job.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> Sony "loves" the green channel so much because it carries the most luminance data in an RGB signal. That's why all "Bayer Pattern" camera sensors are GRGB, only 2 camera sensor manufacturers use something different.
> Higher refresh rates are moot for consoles, honestly I prefer 24 fps for movies over the higher stuff you see in soap operas and the new 48fps movie, The Hobbit (which is otherwise a great movie IMO, even for a huge fan of the book like me. Peter Jackson drew out some of the fight/escape scenes more than necessary though). HDTVs featuring higher than 60hz are just advertising useless marketing fluff. Display Port (and the related thunderbolt) are the way to go for computer monitors though.
> Anyone know a good choice for an Xbox VGA cable? I noticed that on most of the 3rd party cables, people complain about ghosting problems.


 
   
  Heh, camera sensor discussion...brings to mind all those Bayer vs. Foveon arguments. Too bad that Foveon sensors are only used by Sigma (with very few exceptions), and Sigma's DSLR offerings are hideously expensive, still behind in a few areas compared to the competition, and worst of all, use a proprietary SA lens mount, as if we didn't have enough competition between Canon EF, Pentax K, and whatever Nikon's using right now.
   
  I thought that part of the reason green was favored to begin with, including giving it an extra bit of data over the red and blue channels with current RGB standards, is that the human eye is naturally more sensitive to green than the other additive primaries. Probably an instinctual thing for finding plants and whatnot.
   
  Indeed, higher refresh rates are moot for consoles that were designed around 60 Hz displays anyway. PCs can get away with it because their performance isn't really fixed due to their nature, and also because PC CRT monitors were generally designed to run higher than 60 Hz. The best ones can max out at 160 Hz (most FD Trinitrons like the FW900), or even 180 Hz (certain Diamondtron NFs that I don't immediately recall at the moment).
   
  I have no comments on Xbox 360 VGA cables; all I recall is that while Microsoft did offer an official one at launch, people complained about the brightness being way too high. I don't know if they fixed that in the numerous firmware overhauls they've released since.
   
  As for how good higher refresh rates look, that really depends. Movies work differently than video games, the latter of which ALWAYS look better with higher framerates, especially when most games don't have any form of motion blur that obscures the jarring transitions between frames. Movie cameras obviously have the motion blur, so it looks more natural.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Two different things yes, but they do interact in a way. I don't think a higher refresh rate is much of a boon if it's just refreshing the same frame over and over because the game's running at very low fps.
> I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about current gen consoles since I'm mostly into PC gaming these days, but when someone on that end gets a true 120Hz display it's usually with the intention of running the game at well over a constant 60fps.
> Then you've got vsync and all that, no clue how consoles handle that tho I imagine it's more standardized since most games push the hardware pretty hard and there's less variety of display configurations.


 
   
  You struck the nail on the head with that underlined bit. The real benefit to be had is when the game in question is already running at over 60 FPS. It's pretty easy to do if you're a hardcore Quake or Unreal Tournament player with today's hardware that can run those games in excess of 120 FPS constantly, and fast-paced shooters like that really benefit from the extra visible frames.
   
  People tend to think that higher refresh rates were just to eliminate flicker from CRTs; apparently, they didn't consider the smoother motion benefits, probably because they're not competitive PC gamers. Then again, there are plenty of people who foolishly believe you can't see more than 24-30 FPS, while I can clearly perceive the added smoothness between 60 and about 90-100 FPS on a display that can actually refresh that fast.
   
  Also important to know is that refresh rates, response time, and input lag are all completely separate things. High response time on LCDs does make higher refresh rates pointless if the frames are all blurred together like someone held down the shutter on a camera too long, but low response times do not equal high refresh rates. Meanwhile, input lag is the delay between when the display receives the signal and when it actually starts to render the signal on its surface; it's from that point that the response time starts.


----------



## chicolom

This is turning into AVS forum


----------



## Evshrug

Sigma had to make "new" models just so they could sell them cheaper. Their most interesting models IMO are their large-sensor compacts - they may be limited to a signal focal length (no zoom, for the lay people) and their processing may also be comparatively slow, but the massive amount of detail they extract (at small-ish file sizes) is impressive, and a real boon for landscape, fashion, and the crazy prime lens street shooters. Probably product photographers too. The other "interesting" sensor maker is Fuji. They've thought of about 5 different ways to boost the dynamic range and decrease noise, just by themselves. I think it's interesting that Bayer was a scientist working for Kodak, and their own invention put them out of business – mostly because their board members were scared of change, and were still having meetings in even 2008 about "How are we going to kill off this 'digital' fad?"

I could talk your ear off about sensor-size equivalency and functional camera design, but that would be waaaay OT. I'll just say I love Olympus' engineers and hate their management, and we'll leave the camera talk to DPR 

As far as "green light" as a channel of light and a video signal, we are instinctively "attracted" to it and our eyes are sensitive to it, but green also carries more - I forget the word right now, but basically luminance and energy. Think red laser pointers vs green.

I wonder if ghosting wouldn't be less of a problem on a Plasma than LCD, and typical computer monitors because of the sluggish response time (high may not be the most intuitive adjective, though technically correct) of typical LCDs?

Is it obvious that I'm trying to think of anything but the Annies while the excitement is fresh?
------


DeathDealer,
I don't have firsthand experience with the Magni, but in general a more neutral amp is a more flexible amp between different headphones and audio genres and sources. You always have the option of Mixamp EQ. The Annies (and DT990s, probably the Sennheiser too) probably have high enough impedance that your receiver output should sound great though, and the DSPs and basic Treble, Bass, and Channel Balance adjustments of your pioneer receiver should be even more customizable than your Mixamp and not much different in quality than the Magni. I'm curious how you like the Pioneer headphone surround (how's it work with your HD598s?), but you'll have to choose between the flexibility of the receiver vs the size and cost of the Magni. I suspect that you'll want the Mixamp to bake in the surround effects, and you'll be quite well handled between the AVR and your FiiO E11.

If I was "allowed" to use my AVR setup, I probably would've never bought my Recon3D and two new headphone amps... *sigh* I sound like an out-of-touch, crazy collector 

Overall, sounds like you've got QUITE the listening experience headed your way. You'll probably have some interesting findings to share with us! 

*greedy hand wringing, yessssss...*


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> This is turning into AVS forum




With a touch of Digital Photography Review.

...

Sorry :/
Today was not a day I listened to music. Today was lonely, and a day another job (grocery store) said they're not hiring at this time.

I will try to make my next post (#1000!!!) more exciting, memorable, and helpful. Do review articles count as posts? Edit: not long before this thread reaches 1,000 posts too! Should only take 2 or 3 months, right? I'm tempted to make a GIF for Mad, of a cartoon taking headphones from a conveyor belt (so it can loop infinite), putting them on, and shouting "OMG!!!!" 



Chicco Music & Play table!!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Chicco-Music-N-Play-Table/dp/B00005BRFM/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1357636525&sr=1-4


What's the Chico Adult music & play table look like?

The Everett Music & Play table is a little messy right now, but still lots of fun! I like my sparkly lava lamp backlight.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> With a touch of Digital Photography Review.


 
   
  It's a good thing I have "photography" listed as a hobby on my profile.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chicco Music & Play table!!!!
> http://www.amazon.com/Chicco-Music-N-Play-Table/dp/B00005BRFM/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1357636525&sr=1-4
> 
> What's the Chico Adult music & play table look like?
> The Everett Music & Play table is a little messy right now, but still lots of fun! I like my sparkly lava lamp backlight.


 
   
   
  Lol
   
  Nice.
   
  Here is my "Chico Adult music & play table..." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Admittedly not as sexy as your lava lamp setup...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 but it gets the job done.


----------



## Naingolann

What do you guys use for backlighting? I just can't find anything worthy. I tried those ikea strips once, but they died pretty fast. Not to mention it was a PITA removing them from the TV/monitor...
   
  BTW chico, that screen looks very good!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> What do you guys use for backlighting? I just can't find anything worthy. I tried those ikea strips once, but they died pretty fast. Not to mention it was a PITA removing them from the TV/monitor...
> 
> BTW chico, that screen looks very good!


 
  I would like to know as well because that looks amazing Chico.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That looks like a 40"! Its so big that I dont think its IPS, but maybe you're a baller like that, hahaha.

Chico, what computer desk is that? I'm trying to downscale and want one just like that, that only has enough space for a monitor and maybe that's it. Slide out keyboard/mouse piece is a necessity too. Im 6'2" though and I'm afraid that my big old self won't fit, lol.

And you totally beat me on the AVS thing. Speaking of, I need to add the A40 over there. I'll do it when I finish.


----------



## Sheik Yerbutay

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> MLE or anyone else with the first hand knowledge,
> 
> Would you say the Magni will be good for the Q701/K702 Annie if its paired w/ the Mixamp Pro 2013 (and its includes EQs)?  I currently have the HD598 (love them but trying to get more bass and keep competitive score high) and just got the DT990 prem, 250ohm and Q701 to test w/ my AVR (Pioneer's Phones surround mode) as well as the E11.  The Mixamp Pro, Magni, and the Annie are all in transit w/ ETA of end of the week for even more testing.  I want to be sure I get the most favorable and enjoyable experience for PS3 Games and Movies exclusively.  Thanks to all for helping out this lurker.


 

 I just purchased this exact setup (Magni/Modi, Q701's and MixampPro 2013) for gaming on xbox as well as listening to music from both a pc and my Pioneer AVR (VSX-53). I will say that the headphones arrived first and I eagerly plugged them into the the AVR to check out the Headphone Surround for gaming. First off, either the 701's really taxed the amp for headphones or there just isn't a lot of power dedicated to that output. I was at a level -7 just to get a decent volume through the cans where normally that would be VERY loud! I also discovered that there are limitations to which DSP's are available when using headphones with the AVR. Not so much an issue for music in stereo but for gaming the "surround" didnt leave my jaw on the floor going through the AVR. 
   
  When the Magni and Mixamp arrived I put them to the test with Black Ops II and was VERY pleased with the Magni's ability to drive the 701's and the Mixamp surround effects. I was hoping to achieve a somewhat similar experience as playing through the home theater system and I wasnt dissapointed  For music I played a few different flac files (both live shows and studio releases) though the Magni/Modi combo and thought the 701's really replicated them accurately. I wont profess to be as knowlegable as many on here with their experience with different headphones and audiophile-ese descriptions but I will say that the recommendations others have provided to me (MLE and Chico) were dead on and left me with a huge asss grin on my face!
   
  Hope this helps and good luck with your gear!


----------



## Caravet

Hey guys
   
  Been looking for a good pair of headphones to use while gaming and after a few weeks of deliberation I think the Q701 may be the one for me.
   
  I plan to use it in conjunction with this soundcard on my Gigabyte-Z77M-D3H, http://www.ebuyer.com/345387-creative-soundblaster-recon3d-pci-express-bulk-version-for-system-builders-no-cd-30sb135000000 
   
  Will this setup grant me Dolby Digital Live/surround sound access with the Q701 and also with my 5.1 Logitech Z506? Mostly planning to utilise this in Battlefield 3. 
   
  Finally I'm still deliberating over what amp to use; leaning towards an E17 or Magni, any advice on that?


----------



## AxelCloris

Figured someone would beat me to this, but I guess not.
   
  http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/sennheiser-pc363d-pc350-special-edition-gaming-headsets-ces/
   
  The 350 SE is $250 at Amazon. What I really want to hear is the decoder on that 363D model.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> What do you guys use for backlighting? I just can't find anything worthy. I tried those ikea strips once, but they died pretty fast. Not to mention it was a PITA removing them from the TV/monitor...
> 
> BTW chico, that screen looks very good!


 
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> I would like to know as well because that looks amazing Chico.


 

 Thanks!
   
  I got the LED lights from a place called "Volka Lighting":
 http://volkalighting.com.au/ledstore/products/Ambient-Back-Light-for-TV-or-Home-Theater-RGB-Kit-with-Remote.html
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ambient-Mood-LED-Light-Home-Theatre-TV-Ready-RGB-Kit-IR-Remote-/251031997798?pt=US_Stage_Lighting_Single_Units&hash=item3a72ac4d66
   
  It comes in a little kit that is easy to hook up.
  What's cool about it is that changes colors and dims/brightnes via a remote 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  You have to point it behind the TV though since the IR receiver is back there _#firstworldproblems_
   
   


   

 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> That looks like a 40"! Its so big that I dont think its IPS, but maybe you're a baller like that, hahaha.
> 
> Chico, what computer desk is that? I'm trying to downscale and want one just like that, that only has enough space for a monitor and maybe that's it. Slide out keyboard/mouse piece is a necessity too. Im 6'2" though and I'm afraid that my big old self won't fit, lol.


 
   
   
  Ya it's a 40".  Samsung UN40EH5000.  I got it a few months ago.  It's lovely.
   
  I went with that TV because it's got an S-PVA panel (if you play the panel lottery correctly) and last time I checked S-PVA still has the lead for best black levels and contrast for LCDs.  IPS is good for viewing angles and color accuracy, but the blacks are lighter.  I also went with that particular set because it is _not_ edge-lit, unlike the majority of TVs.  It's one of the few TVs that has a full array style backlight which means no backlight bleeding or flashlighting.
   
   
  I'm not sure what the desk is.  I didn't buy it myself.  I like it because its nice and simple and clean and still has enough room to fit a TV up top.  It's also pretty deep.  I'm 6' and I fit OK.  I like having as much legroom as possible without any annoying computer/printer tray/shelf things down below.  I shove all the equipment off to the side to free up leg-room.


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> What do you guys use for backlighting? I just can't find anything worthy. I tried those ikea strips once, but they died pretty fast. Not to mention it was a PITA removing them from the TV/monitor...


 
   
  Got two of these behind my 3x24"... Not the most elaborate but relatively cheap and easy to hook up. Edit: That kit chico linked looks very interesting for the price/size.
   
  http://store.antec.com/Product/soundscience/bias-lighting/0-761345-77020-0.aspx


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Sigma had to make "new" models just so they could sell them cheaper. Their most interesting models IMO are their large-sensor compacts - they may be limited to a signal focal length (no zoom, for the lay people) and their processing may also be comparatively slow, but the massive amount of detail they extract (at small-ish file sizes) is impressive, and a real boon for landscape, fashion, and the crazy prime lens street shooters. Probably product photographers too. The other "interesting" sensor maker is Fuji. They've thought of about 5 different ways to boost the dynamic range and decrease noise, just by themselves. I think it's interesting that Bayer was a scientist working for Kodak, and their own invention put them out of business – mostly because their board members were scared of change, and were still having meetings in even 2008 about "How are we going to kill off this 'digital' fad?"
> I could talk your ear off about sensor-size equivalency and functional camera design, but that would be waaaay OT. I'll just say I love Olympus' engineers and hate their management, and we'll leave the camera talk to DPR
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  All this DSLR talk reminds me of how even the more affordable models still cost hundreds, not including lenses. Too rich for my blood right now.
   
  Meanwhile, my stepfather's still got his old Canon AE-1 Program, and I got this Pentax Spotmatic I found at a thrift store for like $15.75. Good thing Fujifilm's still in the 135 film roll business and people will still develop that stuff so these old cameras can continue to be useful without slapping a digital back with a 35mm full-frame sensor onto them.
   
  Also, the first thing I notice about the construction on older cameras like that? Metal. They just feel so solid and satisfying throughout, and the same thing extends to the lenses and their adjustment rings. I know there are a lot of good reasons to use plastic, but today's cameras don't really have that feeling of solidity and satisfying tactility to them, at least going by the ones I've held at electronics stores.
   
  Back to displays: for plasma displays, it likely depends on the persistence of the phosphors used, just like CRTs. I can distinctly tell that CRT SDTVs meant to refresh at 60 Hz per NTSC spec, along with arcade monitors meant to take 240p signals and other weird, non-standard video signals from arcade boards, have less noticeable flicker than a CRT computer monitor running at 60 Hz due to the increased phosphor persistence. Plasmas seem to function very differently in terms of actually refreshing the image, though, so higher persistences may not be necessary. (For starters, the recent ones are a lot more prone to image retention than CRTs, albeit about as resistant to burn-in.)
   
  Also of importance is that people don't mistake image retention/burn-in for ghosting. You probably know the difference, but I doubt most buyers in the HDTV market do.
   
  I'm still more concerned about the input lag than anything; the research I've done on nice plasma panels like the Panasonic VT50 reveals that they have over a frame of input lag, and the less I think about those LG plasmas over at the university game room, the better. (People somehow play _fighting games_ on those things without complaining too much about the blatantly obvious input lag...) I go look up displays with low input lag, as in 16ms or less, and they're almost all LCDs.
   
  And yes, I feel you on not wanting to get sucked into the hype. I found out that not frequenting the Stax thread in the High-end Audio subforum as much helped keep the feelings of wallet inadequacy at bay.


----------



## hpower1

Thank you for this review and all the info contained here.  This seems like a classy forum too, which is nice nowadays.
   
  I am planning to order some items recommended/reviewed here very soon.  I plan to order the AD700 headphones for now, may change at a later date.  My questions are this:
   
  -I plan to buy the new 2013 mixamp, is the previous version better, should I try to find that first?
  -I plan to buy a magni amp as voice chat is a must for me (battlefield 3 on ps3), what is the benefits of also getting the modi?  Doesn't the mixamp do the DAC function?  Will it benefit me for gaming at all?  If yes, for me, I don't mind spending the extra $100.  My only use for this setup will be gaming on ps3 (battlefield 3).
   
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If using the AD700, you wont need an additional amp. The Modi is unnecessary, and won't be used at all. The Modi a dac to use for non-gaming purposes. 

The 2013 Mixamp is great, though as hissy as the 5.8. The older wired Mixamps were quieter. Either way, the hiss is a non-issue for gaming. The 2013 Mixamp has nice warmth plus eq presets the old ones lack. I find it to be the best Mixamp unless you absolutely need less hiss, which to me is overkill for gaming anyways.


----------



## hpower1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If using the AD700, you wont need an additional amp. The Modi is unnecessary, and won't be used at all. The Modi a dac to use for non-gaming purposes.
> The 2013 Mixamp is great, though as hissy as the 5.8. The older wired Mixamps were quieter. Either way, the hiss is a non-issue for gaming. The 2013 Mixamp has nice warmth plus eq presets the old ones lack. I find it to be the best Mixamp unless you absolutely need less hiss, which to me is overkill for gaming anyways.


 
  Thank you sir!


----------



## ronswanson

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If using the AD700, you wont need an additional amp. The Modi is unnecessary, and won't be used at all. The Modi a dac to use for non-gaming purposes.
> The 2013 Mixamp is great, though as hissy as the 5.8. The older wired Mixamps were quieter. Either way, the hiss is a non-issue for gaming. The 2013 Mixamp has nice warmth plus eq presets the old ones lack. I find it to be the best Mixamp unless you absolutely need less hiss, which to me is overkill for gaming anyways.


 
   
  are you still experiencing sound drops with the 2013 Mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. I believe my problem was the Astro usb cable. I stopped using it, and it worked again. Good thing I have so many.


----------



## Sheik Yerbutay

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. I believe my problem was the Astro usb cable. I stopped using it, and it worked again. Good thing I have so many.


 

 I'm having the same issue. Did you go with a thicker gauge cable or something shorter in length to resolve it?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> *All this DSLR talk reminds me of how even the more affordable models still cost hundreds, not including lenses. Too rich for my blood right now.*
> 
> I'm still more concerned about the input lag than anything; the research I've done on nice plasma panels like the Panasonic VT50 reveals that they have over a frame of input lag, and the less I think about those LG plasmas over at the university game room, the better. (People somehow play _fighting games_ on those things without complaining too much about the blatantly obvious input lag...) I go look up displays with low input lag, as in 16ms or less, and they're almost all LCDs.


 
    
   
  I know what you mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I finally got my first _*D*_slr about 2-3 months ago (Canon T2i). Slowly collecting some lenses for it, but OMG it is expensive.  Except for a few cheap kit lenses and some primes, pretty much every lenses costs more than the camera itself. 
   
  It makes head-fi look affordable 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still, you can get great shots without a DSLR.  I have a soft spot for digital super zooms, and I've gotten some nice shots with those types of camera. 
   
  It's nice to see some of the manufacturers putting some bigger sensors in the cameras outside their DSLR lines.
   
   
 I'm sure the list of HDTVs with input lag < 16ms is pretty small.    I think input lag is just something modern gamers have gotten used to.  Espeically when you mix it in with online lag - they probably don't notice it much.
   

   
  Quote: 





hpower1 said:


> I plan to order the *AD700 *headphones for now, may change at a later date.
> 
> -I plan to buy a *magni amp* as voice chat is a must for me...


 
   
  Do NOT get the Magni amp for the AD700.  They will blow up.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. I believe my problem was the Astro usb cable. I stopped using it, and it worked again.


 
   
  Should have used some garbage monoprice ones.


----------



## nassq8

Quote: 





caravet said:


> Hey guys
> 
> Been looking for a good pair of headphones to use while gaming and after a few weeks of deliberation I think the Q701 may be the one for me.
> 
> ...


 
   
[size=10pt]Dolby Digital Live (DDL) needs a Dolby decoder like home theater receiver or some sort of stand along decoder like Mixamp. For your headphone, use the Mixamp to decode the DDL signal and enjoy HP surround sound. But this is not doable for your speaker system, which is based on an analog audio. [/size][size=10pt]Your speaker setup, however, can be easily handled by the soundcard you listed above through its analog outputs. For the HP amp, I use[/size][size=10.0pt] audio-gd NFB15.32 to drive my HE-500. It works very well for the price. It delivers the power needed for this hard-to-drive phones.  [/size]
   
[size=10.0pt]And ya thanks Mad for the effort you put here. It helped a lot in the deciding process of HP buyers.  [/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I've watched some movies with the Annie and HE400. It's a pretty decisive lead for the HE400 in terms of movie theater sound and immersion. The bass is just incredibly deep and throaty. The Annie has a very balanced sound with good body in the bass but not on the HE400s level for action movies.

The Annie's soundstage is soooo much better than the HE400s, and the vocals and balance trumps the HE400. I'd say this is my non-action movie headphone for sure, and I would love them even for action movies (I do), but the HE400 is more satisfying in that aspect.

So I still have a good place for the HE400 (I'm sure action gamesas well, and my specific genres of music).

If/when the Philips X1 comes out, I may swap out, but I don't see myself selling the HE400 for any other reason.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I've watched some movies with the Annie and HE400. It's a pretty decisive lead for the HE400 in terms of movie theater sound and immersion. The bass is just incredibly deep and throaty. The Annie has a very balanced sound with good body in the bass but not on the HE400s level for action movies.
> The Annie's soundstage is soooo much better than the HE400s, and the vocals and balance trumps the HE400. I'd say this is my non-action movie headphone for sure, and I would love them even for that, but the HE400 is more satisfying in that aspect.


 
  This is good news then. I guess I will be keeping my DT990s for action films.


----------



## Caravet

Quote: 





nassq8 said:


> [size=10pt]Dolby Digital Live (DDL) needs a Dolby decoder like home theater receiver or some sort of stand along decoder like Mixamp. For your headphone, use the Mixamp to decode the DDL signal and enjoy HP surround sound. But this is not doable for your speaker system, which is based on an analog audio. [/size][size=10pt]But , your speaker setup can be easily handled by the soundcard you listed above through its analog outputs. For the HP amp, I use[/size][size=10.0pt] audio-gd NFB15.32 to drive my HE-500. It works very well for the price. It delivers the power needed for this hard-to-drive phones.  [/size]
> 
> [size=10.0pt]And ya thanks Mad for the effort you put here. It helped a lot in the deciding process of HP buyers.  [/size]


 
  Thanks, it's another £30 or so on the budget but if it's completely necessary for the surround sound then it will be done.
   
  Think I've decided on the Xonar STX with the Matrix M stage for the SC&amp, anyone had any experience with this pairing on the Q701s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K702 Annie has just really open soundstage for movies through Dolby Headphone. Its ridiculous, really. Amazing. Its been awhile since ive heard the other two AKGs, but yeah, these are on par, really.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Isn't it obvious? The GDM-FW900 is my primary PC monitor. Only a PC would really take advantage of its capabilities anyway. (2304x1440 at 80 Hz, and lower resolutions at up to 160 Hz, should give you an idea of why it's so sought-after.)
> 
> Getting consoles hooked up to it just happens to be a side bonus. No need to waste money on an HDTV when the FW900 could do the job.
> 
> ...


 
  Just making sure. Yup, I can totally understand. Which HDfury should I get if I wanted to use the PS3 with this monitor? The 3rd Hdfury? Any need to get the 4th?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Just making sure. Yup, I can totally understand. Which HDfury should I get if I wanted to use the PS3 with this monitor? The 3rd Hdfury? Any need to get the 4th? What the crap is that other port besides the VGA port though?


 
   
  From what I can tell, the latest HDFury models do add some neat features, but the older ones are still available if you don't need those features and want to keep the cost down. The first one does have some sort of horizontal image shifting issue, but the GDM-FW900's geometry controls are versatile enough to sort that out, in all likeliness.
   
  The HDFury4/3DFury might be useful if you intend to play PS3 games in 3D. My knowledge of PS3 3D support over HDMI is rather limited, but I would think that it could output a frame-interleaved 120 Hz 720p signal, and the 3DFury will just page-flip the alternating frames on the monitor, just like how NVIDIA 3D Vision works.
   
  BNC jacks are something you will never see outside of professional video equipment, in all likeliness. It's not just a single port, but five discrete jacks for each component of the video signal. Really, they just transmit the same RGBHV signals that a DE-15 VGA cable will, although the VGA input also uses EDID pins that the five BNC jacks can't account for, thus connecting a PC to the BNC inputs with a VGA-to-BNC cable will cause it to be seen as a "Generic Non-PnP Monitor", and your resolution options will be significantly limited. (Nothing over 1600x1200, for starters.) I don't think that'll be a problem for HDFury use, though.
   
  Eventually, you'll learn to make the distinction between the signal/protocol and the connector it is transmitted through. DE-15/VGA, BNC, and SCART are very different connectors, but all carry the same basic form of RGB video (with minor differences in how the sync signals are handled).


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> From what I can tell, the latest HDFury models do add some neat features, but the older ones are still available if you don't need those features and want to keep the cost down. The first one does have some sort of horizontal image shifting issue, but the GDM-FW900's geometry controls are versatile enough to sort that out, in all likeliness.
> 
> The HDFury4/3DFury might be useful if you intend to play PS3 games in 3D. My knowledge of PS3 3D support over HDMI is rather limited, but I would think that it could output a frame-interleaved 120 Hz 720p signal, and the 3DFury will just page-flip the alternating frames on the monitor, just like how NVIDIA 3D Vision works.
> 
> ...


 

 All right, thank you. What happens when this monitor starts going out though? Also, would I need to get anything along with the HDfury? Gamma-X?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





caravet said:


> Thanks, it's another £30 or so on the budget but if it's completely necessary for the surround sound then it will be done.
> 
> Think I've decided on the Xonar STX with the Matrix M stage for the SC&amp, anyone had any experience with this pairing on the Q701s?


 
  If your getting the Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card, can't see why you would need to get the Matrix M stage?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> If your getting the Asus Xonar Essence STX sound card, can't see why you would need to get the Matrix M stage?


 
   
  Ya, I was going to say the same thing earlier but I forgot.
   
  The STX is already pretty powerful (I think I read it's similar to an E9), so I doubt an M-stage is needed.


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





caravet said:


> Thanks, it's another £30 or so on the budget but if it's completely necessary for the surround sound then it will be done.
> 
> Think I've decided on the Xonar STX with the Matrix M stage for the SC&amp, anyone had any experience with this pairing on the Q701s?


 
   
  I have Xonar ST with Q701 and with HD650.
   
  The amping of the Xonar ST is good enough to power even HD650.... In Q701, I do not get past 20% Volume in windows with High Gain setting (64-300ohm)


----------



## Impulse

My STX works great with my 250 ohm DT 880 too, that card is a great little value for a PC DAC/amp combo, specially if you can get it on sale for like $150.


----------



## Caravet

Thanks guys, the Matrix M-Stage was only meant to be a follow up if the STX didn't prove enough - conveniently enough the M-Stage was only available for me to buy after I had both the stx & q701.
   
  Finally though there is one more barrier before I break out the plastic. I've heard that a X-Fi Titanium HD might be suited to gaming over the STX - although I'd be tempted to disregard this based on a couple of Creative cards I had in this past (although this would be under a decade ago now) that didn't live up to expectations.
   
  In addition for my setup will I need any extra cables? On the back of my sub there are both 3.5mm and RCA connectors - could I use a splitter with the sub & Q701 to boost it a little? Would all these cables fit okay into the card? Do I need any optical/toslink cables?


----------



## Jhalf

Well, my 702 Annies will be here today (Thanks MLE for all the great recommendations). Im super pumped. I'm going to go to Microcenter after work to get a Xonar STX until my M-Stage gets here on order from Amazon. Then I will most likely return the STX for the DGX (Just for the optical out with encoded Dobly Headphone) and pic up a nice DAC that has a optical in.
   
  I really wanted to spring for the WA6, but just couldn't feel right about spending that kind of money for my first amp.
   
  Also i just realized that my G35s use Dobly Headphone, so I am anxious to see how the annies compare. I will also post comparisons between the STX/M-stage when i get all of it.
   
  MLE, are the 990/600 ohms a good contrasting pair of cans for the Annies? Might pick up 990s with a OTL tube amp next for some contrast.


----------



## loki993

Disregard....I put this in the wrong thread.....


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, if I wanted to sell my monitor (the one in my profile), which part of the for sale/trade forum would I put it in?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Nameless, you had me quite interested in that CRT, and while it is amazing, it nonetheless comes with drawbacks (100lbs!) as does everything. OLED's are the future my man, unless you know of another display tech (SED seems to have fallen by the wayside).


----------



## hpower1

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Do NOT get the Magni amp for the AD700.  They will blow up.


 
  Thanks for the tip!
   
  I ordered my new 2013 mixamp and the AD700's today. 
   
  Also ordering a modmic, just want to confirm I will be getting the newest version with mute button.


----------



## Impulse

loki993 said:


> However I did just remember, the graphics card does have built in audio too that will change over when the displayport is plugged in, HP HDMI basically,  I wonder if I can redirect that somehow to USB. Its a Nvida NVS 3100M.




No, it doesn't work like that.



caravet said:


> Thanks guys, the Matrix M-Stage was only meant to be a follow up if the STX didn't prove enough - conveniently enough the M-Stage was only available for me to buy after I had both the stx & q701.
> 
> Finally though there is one more barrier before I break out the plastic. I've heard that a X-Fi Titanium HD might be suited to gaming over the STX - although I'd be tempted to disregard this based on a couple of Creative cards I had in this past (although this would be under a decade ago now) that didn't live up to expectations.
> 
> In addition for my setup will I need any extra cables? On the back of my sub there are both 3.5mm and RCA connectors - could I use a splitter with the sub & Q701 to boost it a little? Would all these cables fit okay into the card? Do I need any optical/toslink cables?




The Ti HD would only be better if A) you play a lot of older games that use the now deprecated EAX instructions or B) you simply prefer CMSS-3D to Dolby Headphone. The latter's a subjective thing. The Ti HD doesn't have anywhere near the amplification that the STX does tho.

Not really sure what you mean about the sub, what are you trying to do with it? For hooking up your Q701 just connect them straight into the back of the card, there are discrete headphone and speaker outputs on it and you can switch between them in software (which in turn controls a hardware actuator, like a receiver, you'll hear a click when switching).


----------



## Vader2k

Well, I took the plunge and ordered the K702 Annies!  The Magni was feeling neglected. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  They should be here Monday, can't wait!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Well, I took the plunge and ordered the K702 Annies!  The Magni was feeling neglected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 My Annies just shipped too about time I was getting worried I would get a back order email. Mine will probably take longer as I have to clear customs.


----------



## loki993

Quote: 





impulse said:


> No, it doesn't work like that.


 
  Yeah I looked around and it doesn't seem to. Oh well I guess Ill see how stereo sound works unless I can figure out a way to get that IDT to output through USB which I highly doubt. 
   
   
   
  How much power does the Magni put out? I have a pair of AD700s and Ill be using them with a fiio E10 when I get it, hopefully Ill be ok with that?


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





hpower1 said:


> Also ordering a modmic, just want to confirm I will be getting the newest version with mute button.


 
   
  I believe they still only have the non-mute version available, though they hope to put the mute pre-order up soon.


----------



## Vader2k

**Apologies for posting this in two threads. Wasn't sure where it fit better.**
   
  So, I bought the Magni to go along with my Mixamp, but didn't bother with a DAC as I'm primarily going to use the Annies for console gaming and watching movies.  However, if I did want to listen to music, I figure I have two options available to me:
   

 iPod on Apple dock - 3.5mm Line-out to Magni
 Laptop - USB out to Mixamp, Mixamp out to Magni
   
  I realize I can just hook the Annies straight to my iPod's or laptop's headphone jack, but if I wanted to still have the Magni in that mix, which method above would give the best DAC output?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





hailin said:


> My Annies just shipped too about time I was getting worried I would get a back order email. Mine will probably take longer as I have to clear customs.


 
   
  Glad they shipped.  Sucks about customs, though.


----------



## Caravet

Quote:  





> The Ti HD would only be better if A) you play a lot of older games that use the now deprecated EAX instructions or B) you simply prefer CMSS-3D to Dolby Headphone. The latter's a subjective thing. The Ti HD doesn't have anywhere near the amplification that the STX does tho.
> Not really sure what you mean about the sub, what are you trying to do with it? For hooking up your Q701 just connect them straight into the back of the card, there are discrete headphone and speaker outputs on it and you can switch between them in software (which in turn controls a hardware actuator, like a receiver, you'll hear a click when switching).


 
  Excellent this clears things up for me, I do play a lot of games (mostly new, I suppose I don't play my old games enough anymore to warrant EAX) and listen to a lot of music so I think the STX is the one. Thanks very much!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Glad they shipped.  Sucks about customs, though.


 

 Being from amazon.com they will hopefully slip through quietly as they have in the past. So maybe a days hold up total. /knocking on wood!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the love of god, please post up comparisons between the Q701 and Annies. Spend time with the Annie first to get used to the sound. Hifiguy had both an didnt hear a difference at first. Hell, he thought they had the same pads. Then he started saying they werent the same, etc. So I hope you guys do us a favor andgive them their due time.


----------



## Impulse

loki993 said:


> Yeah I looked around and it doesn't seem to. Oh well I guess Ill see how stereo sound works unless I can figure out a way to get that IDT to output through USB which I highly doubt.
> 
> How much power does the Magni put out? I have a pair of AD700s and Ill be using them with a fiio E10 when I get it, hopefully Ill be ok with that?




Yeah, on board audio isn't going anywhere thru USB either... A Xonar DG or DGX isn't very expensive if you just want DH tho, and they have decent amps. The AD700 are very easy to drive, I think they'll be fine on the E10 or either of those cards even.




mad lust envy said:


> For the love of god, please post up comparisons between the Q701 and Annies. Spend time with the Annie first to get used to the sound. Hifiguy had both an didnt hear a difference at first. Hell, he thought they had the same pads. Then he started saying they werent the same, etc. So I hope you guys do us a favor andgive them their due time.




I'd love to read a direct comparison from someone with both too.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Nameless, you had me quite interested in that CRT, and while it is amazing, it nonetheless comes with drawbacks (100lbs!) as does everything. OLED's are the future my man, unless you know of another display tech (SED seems to have fallen by the wayside).


 
   
  Shame about SED/FED, but I still have some hope in laser DLP. Too bad those Mitsubishi LaserVue sets are wallet-breakers, just like current TV-size OLED panels.
   
  On the other hand, the use of a DLP chip inherently means having a native resolution. It does highlight the potential of an RGB laser-based display technology if people were to move in that direction, though.


----------



## Rexxen

Just got my annies today and on first impression alone compared to my q701s, the annies are more transparent, the soundstage is different but I wouldn't say better, positional cues are better, not as harsh, and better bass. I haven't done any pad swapping but I highly doubt the pads are creating all the differences, though I'm interested myself because I've always found the q701 pads unwieldy. In addition the annies are lighter, less fatiguing on the ears, and far more comfortable. Before I return my q701s I might play around with the two side by side and with swapped pads, if I do I'll post my findings and opinions here. -So far- I've gotten more than I had ever wished for in my 170 usd upgrade but perhaps pad swapping will change my mind if I know that I could have gotten the close to the same experience with just 50usd in pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Shame about SED/FED, but I still have some hope in laser DLP. Too bad those Mitsubishi LaserVue sets are wallet-breakers, just like current TV-size OLED panels.
> 
> On the other hand, the use of a DLP chip inherently means having a native resolution. It does highlight the potential of an RGB laser-based display technology if people were to move in that direction, though.




Mitsubishi is stopping production of DLP, lol.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/02/mitsubishi-rptv-rip/



> The company's official statement is after the break, confirming that its DLP and LaserVue models are no more


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Shame about SED/FED, but I still have some hope in laser DLP. Too bad those Mitsubishi LaserVue sets are wallet-breakers, just like current TV-size OLED panels.
> 
> On the other hand, the use of a DLP chip inherently means having a native resolution. It does highlight the potential of an RGB laser-based display technology if people were to move in that direction, though.


 
   
  Not a shame. I will win! Muahahahaha. Kidding. It is a shame. Isn't that heavy as well? lol. Do they even make a smaller size? I can't game on the computer with mouse and keyboard with that huge thing, lol. They all seem to be very large sizes. No, no no, they are not wallet-breakers like current OLED's. For once, consumer OLED's aren't even out, but when they do hit, it's like 12grand compared to 3 to 4 or the LaserVue, lol. Pretty neat.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mitsubishi is stopping production of DLP, lol.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/02/mitsubishi-rptv-rip/


 
   Hahahaha. Wow. I didn't even know of the laservue till Nameless, nor a lot of other things (Aureal/Stax/ect. lol).


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Mitsubishi is stopping production of DLP, lol.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/02/mitsubishi-rptv-rip/



Oh no, I never noticed this news until now...

Prices might go back up for LaserVue sets, but that doesn't always happen in the world of displays. Otherwise, GDM-FW900s would never sell for well under $1,000 at this point.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh no, I never noticed this news until now...
> 
> Prices might go back up for LaserVue sets, but that doesn't always happen in the world of displays. Otherwise, GDM-FW900s would never sell for well under $1,000 at this point.


 

  Yeah. Still too big though. Picture quality suffers due to it being a projection too.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, I bit the bullet and just purchased the Annies off ebay for $452 (Thank you Bill Me Later). I've no regrets (if it's as good as MLE would have us believe...


----------



## Jhalf

Well its pretty darn good. I dont have much to compare it to, but i am very pleased.
   
  I was really bummed at first, because at first I couldnt hear any difference but within the first hour, the cans came alive, and sounded awesome. They only got better after 10 hours of burn in, and now I am really pleased, and that is only coming out of the asus phoebus.
   
  I cant wait till I get it properly amped.
   
  I was using Dolby home theater 4. MLE, how does that compare to Dolby Headphone? I plan on getting a Xonar DGX when my amp comes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not sure. Nameless might know.

Rexxen, thanks for the comparisons. Glad to hear the difference is worth it. Please do swap the pads, and tell us what happens.

The pads should be very easy to remove/install, just that the Q701 pads will have to be oriented a certain way.


----------



## loki993

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Yeah, on board audio isn't going anywhere thru USB either... A Xonar DG or DGX isn't very expensive if you just want DH tho, and they have decent amps. The AD700 are very easy to drive, I think they'll be fine on the E10 or either of those cards even.
> I'd love to read a direct comparison from someone with both too.


 
   
  Yeah I don't think so either. Its about the worst onboard audio Ive ever seen too. very basic. I mean it does "HD" sound, has an eq and things like that but its still very basic. Just enough to get the job done. 
   
  Also its a laptop so nogo on the xonars. Ill just deal with the stereo until I get the desktop built then Ill throw a xonar in that and call it good. Unless I don't miss the Surround sound, which Is still totally possible.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not sure. Nameless might know.



Dolby Home Theater v4, you mean?

I figured it was just branding for a suite of Dolby features, including Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Jhalf

I dont think so.. This guy actually has a slider at the bottom of the window for "surround sensation".
   
  It takes a stereo signal, upmixes it to some kind of dolby surround, then down mixes it back to stereo. It doesnt sound that great.
   
  The way i understand Dolby Headphone, is it take a real, live Dolby 5.1 signal and just down mixes it to stereo.


----------



## lubczyk

What's with the industry's hate of DLP?
   
  the technology has no heat and image retention like Plasma and excellent response time and no lag unlike LCD. I have had my DLP since 2006 and haven't replaced the bulb yet.
   
  DLP is also super cheap for the consumer.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





loki993 said:


> Also its a laptop so nogo on the xonars. Ill just deal with the stereo until I get the desktop built then Ill throw a xonar in that and call it good. Unless I don't miss the Surround sound, which Is still totally possible.


 
   
  There is the Xonar U3 for laptop surround + DAC.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> What's with the industry's hate of DLP?
> 
> the technology has no heat and image retention like Plasma and excellent response time and no lag unlike LCD. I have had my DLP since 2006 and haven't replaced the bulb yet.
> 
> DLP is also super cheap for the consumer.


 

 It was the screen door effect and rainbows for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lubczyk said:


> What's with the industry's hate of DLP?
> 
> the technology has no heat and image retention like Plasma and excellent response time and no lag unlike LCD. I have had my DLP since 2006 and haven't replaced the bulb yet.
> 
> DLP is also super cheap for the consumer.




I had the last LED DLP Samsung made, a 67" one. I really loved it. I only sold it (well tried to, but the ****wads gave me funny money), because I wanted something that didn't take as much space, and didn't have such a narrow vertical viewing angle.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





hailin said:


> It was the screen door effect and rainbows for me.


 
   
  The "rainbow effect" is quite annoying for me, but that's why you don't bother with single-chip DLP sets.
   
  Triple-chip and laser DLP sets that don't need color wheels don't have that issue. Problem is, they're also more expensive.
   
  As for the "screen door effect", most LCDs have it pretty blatantly at the larger sizes, though it's getting to be less of a problem at sizes 10" and lower due to the whole "Retina display" marketing push.


----------



## calpis

That one short throw laser projector that they showed at CES this year has me drooling. 100 in. at just under 2ft from the wall!
   
  I still have an older infocus projector that I used to play Child of Eden on with the kinect and that was a wonderful experience. And yes, I tied 2 xbox controllers together and hung it around my neck for a make shift "trance vibrator".


----------



## raband

Now this is what we need.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

So... does the Annie sound well off the mixamp alone or will I need another amp?
   
  What am I saying, of course I'm probably going to need another amp. Mixamps Ohm= 32 coupled with the Annie's 62 ohm that probably won't give me a sufficient damping factor.


----------



## Impulse

You'll want an amp to hear them at their best, AKG's higher end stuff usually demands more power at different frequencies so the stated impedance is deceiving.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> There is the Xonar U3 for laptop surround + DAC.


 
   
  +1 for the U3. It's an excellent budget option for laptop PC gaming. DAC is decent, not excellent in terms of tonality, but it does an excellent job with Dolby Headphone. I've used it in combination with an E9 to run my Q701s for gaming. I still use it when running Windows on my Macbook Pro.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





jhalf said:


> I dont think so.. This guy actually has a slider at the bottom of the window for "surround sensation".
> 
> It takes a stereo signal, upmixes it to some kind of dolby surround, then down mixes it back to stereo. It doesnt sound that great.
> 
> The way i understand Dolby Headphone, is it take a real, live Dolby 5.1 signal and just down mixes it to stereo.


 
  Does this make sense to anyone? Am I understanding this correctly, for anyone that has used DHTV4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Compass 2 is in New York. Assuming they get going today, I definitely expect it on Monday, or Tuesday at the latest.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Aye lad, but the question now is, which amp should I buy? Magni is the obvious candidate, but maybe there are other amps I should consider. Although after having spent over $400 on one pair of headphones I don't want to spent much more than 100 (before tax and shipping) for an amp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





raband said:


> Now this is what we need.


 
   
  Replace BF3 with BF2 or ArmA and I'd be all over that!
   
  Only problem is, all the games mentioned have vehicles, and such an FPS simulator only really works while you're on-foot.
   
  Quote: 





jhalf said:


> Does this make sense to anyone? Am I understanding this correctly, for anyone that has used DHTV4?


 
   
  Your line of thought makes sense to me, though I obviously can't tell if it's correct or not without having a Xonar Phoebus to experiment with.
   
  What doesn't help is that the whole "Dolby Home Theater" branding likely referring to a set of different technologies means that it'll have the same issues with the different CMSS-3D modes on X-Fi cards confusing the hell out of everyone, and if set up improperly, could very well result in trying to make surround out of stereo signals, which just doesn't work.


----------



## gl0ry

Just wanted to say I really like your guide here and what you're doing.
   
  Based on all the research I did, I purchased the Sennheiser PC360s because they were known to be the best headsets on the market, and I have to say I wasn't that impressed with it.  I came from using the PC161s which are honestly one of my favorite headsets.  I know the Sennheiser brand and their quality, so I was expecting to be blown away coming from a lower end model.  I even purchased a separate dedicated sound card just to optimize my experience.
   
  I found that although the clarity is good, overall applications such as music or movies, they weren't really anything special.  I was happy enough with the sound quality, but the major issue I had with them was the discomfort from clamping.  I have a pretty big head, and I couldn't have them on without adjusting them constantly.  That alone really killed it for me.  I stretched them constantly over my PC case (which is white, and now has some black impression marks from the earcups from the pressure..) and they would feel great for half an hour, and then start clamping my skull again.
   
  I've decided that for me personally, I'd rather sell these and buy ones that are of "lower" quality that provide better comfort.


----------



## Caravet

I've ordered my Q701s, didn't go for the anniversary edition since this is my first serious audio purchase.
   
  One more question though, regarding soundcards, has any tested a Xonar Phoebus yet? The integrated microphone and dedicated surround sound is a very attractive proposition, but I've heard compared to the STX the quality is much lower. This would make sense considering their very similar prices. Also heard some bad things about the Phoebus' drivers. Considering it's just under a year old now perhaps things have changed?
   
  I'm worrying that by buying the Phoebus I'll be negating my Q701's edge on sound fidelity. I listen to a lot of music (both bassy and non bassy, from electronica to drum and bass to jazz) but also game just as much. Any advice?
   
  - 
   



> Originally Posted by *gl0ry* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Based on all the research I did, I purchased the Sennheiser PC360s because they were known to be the best headsets on the market, and I have to say I wasn't that impressed with it.  I came from using the PC161s which are honestly one of my favorite headsets.  I know the Sennheiser brand and their quality, so I was expecting to be blown away coming from a lower end model.  I even purchased a separate dedicated sound card just to optimize my experience.


 
   
  Quite sure that an integrated microphone drags down the overall sound/build quality in any headset. Spend the same amount of money in Sennheiser's headphone range and I think you would find the quality you were looking for


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gl0ry said:


> Just wanted to say I really like your guide here and what you're doing.
> 
> Based on all the research I did, I purchased the Sennheiser PC360s because they were known to be the best headsets on the market, and I have to say I wasn't that impressed with it.  I came from using the PC161s which are honestly one of my favorite headsets.  I know the Sennheiser brand and their quality, so I was expecting to be blown away coming from a lower end model.  I even purchased a separate dedicated sound card just to optimize my experience.
> 
> ...




Mentioned several times throughout this guide that the PC360 is mostly just a competitive gaming beast, but is on the somewhat boring side for music and movies, due to it being geared towards balance, and not much else. Dunno about the one you like, but I'm gonna guess it has more bass and colored signature, which is why you prefer it. 

Still, you pit the PC360 vs anything for soundwhoring and positional cues, and I doubt they'll best the PC 360.

As for comfort, this is why I over extend the arms and wear them loose.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, anyone, best IEM? Can anyone point me towards an IEM worthy of getting instead of the Annies?


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Hey, anyone, best IEM? Can anyone point me towards an IEM worthy of getting instead of the Annies?


 
   
  Nothing that would beat the 701's you have now for the theme of this thread. Were you looking for them for a different purpose?
   
  Weren't you talking about custom IEM's earlier as if you had some knowledge/experience with them? None of them what you're after?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only IEMs I know and recommend for gaming are the Hifiman RE0. They are very detailed, albeit it quite analytical and not musical.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Hey, anyone, best IEM? Can anyone point me towards an IEM worthy of getting instead of the Annies?


 
   
  In terms of detail, I absolutely love my Etymotic HF3. Though admittedly I've never tried them for gaming. IEM tend to have a small soundstage which isn't ideal for the virtual surround sound discussed in this thread. I've heard the RE0 has better separation than the HF2/3/5 does, though I have no first hand experience with the RE0.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> Nothing that would beat the 701's you have now for the theme of this thread. Were you looking for them for a different purpose?
> 
> Weren't you talking about custom IEM's earlier as if you had some knowledge/experience with them? None of them what you're after?


 

 Yeah, I wanna use them both for music and gaming. I don't think so? I don't like custom IEM's for the simple fact that they are custom. I haven't really owned any IEM's.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only IEMs I know and recommend for gaming are the Hifiman RE0. They are b=very detailed, albeit it quite analytical and not musical.


 
  Boo to them then. http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-268-iems-compared-visang-vs-k1-added-01-03-13#post_6492059 Maybe this is the most comprehensive list there is for IEM's, lol. It even has the K3003! Lol.
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> In terms of detail, I absolutely love my Etymotic HF3. Though admittedly I've never tried them for gaming. IEM tend to have a small soundstage which isn't ideal for the virtual surround sound discussed in this thread. I've heard the RE0 has better separation than the HF2/3/5 does, though I have no first hand experience with the RE0.


 
  Thanks for the input


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Astro/SC is letting me keep all the cables, lol. It'd be hard trying to figure out what belongs with the A50s, A40s, SLYR, so I just have to return the devices. Thank god, lol.

Now to figure out all the stuff the A40 bundle comes with to edit in the review.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Now to figure out all the stuff the A40 bundle comes with to edit in the review.


 
   
  I think this is it? 
   
   
  [size=medium]Ships With:​[/size] [size=medium] A40 Headset, Astro Speaker Tags, and Astro MixAmp™[/size] [size=medium]Headset Cables:​[/size] [size=medium] 2M 3.5mm Quick Disconnect Cable; PC Splitter/Adapter[/size] [size=medium]MixAmp Cables:​[/size] [size=medium] Mini TOSLink to TOSLink, 3M USB-USB Mini, 1.5M Xbox Live Chat Cable, 2M 3.5mm Audio Cable[/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The guide has been updated for a more finished Astro A40 entry, as well as adding the Mixamp 2013 to the virtual surround devices section.

Let me know if I'm missing anything.




> *Astro A40 (*headset*)*
> http://www.astrogaming.com/a40-audio-system-astro-edition
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> In terms of detail, I absolutely love my Etymotic HF3. Though admittedly I've never tried them for gaming. IEM tend to have a small soundstage which isn't ideal for the virtual surround sound discussed in this thread. I've heard the RE0 has better separation than the HF2/3/5 does, though I have no first hand experience with the RE0.


 

 Same, I don't have a lot of experience w/high end IEM but my HF3 were an eye-opening jump from my other low budget IEM. Never used 'em at my PC tho since they probably wouldn't match very well w/my STX and I dunno if my powered monitor's headphone amp is any better in that regard. I got a great deal on 'em for $60 during a fire sale at Cowboom so I haven't even been tempted to try something else.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





caravet said:


> I've ordered my Q701s, didn't go for the anniversary edition since this is my first serious audio purchase.
> 
> One more question though, regarding soundcards, has any tested a Xonar Phoebus yet? The integrated microphone and dedicated surround sound is a very attractive proposition, but I've heard compared to the STX the quality is much lower. This would make sense considering their very similar prices. Also heard some bad things about the Phoebus' drivers. Considering it's just under a year old now perhaps things have changed?
> 
> I'm worrying that by buying the Phoebus I'll be negating my Q701's edge on sound fidelity. I listen to a lot of music (both bassy and non bassy, from electronica to drum and bass to jazz) but also game just as much. Any advice?


 
   
  Ive talked about the Phoebus briefly over the last few pages. The sound quality has been awesome for music so far, but check my post from earlier on page 711. The Phoebus has Dolby Home Theater V4, and not Dolby Headphone. The positional ques arent as good as the Dolby Headphone my G35s used. I am going to be returning the phoebus for a Xonar DGX (that has Dolby Headphone) when my DAC/Amp come.
   
  As far as quality, the card itself is high quality, and uses mostly the same components the STX uses, plus the volume module is really convienent for in game audio adjustments.
   
  The drivers are what most people are complaining about, but there was a beta driver release in late November, and there fine.


----------



## SoAmusing777

You know, there should be a headphone gaming guide that is IEM specific, seeing as how this is Full-size (mainly) specific, as well as one with STAX.


----------



## gl0ry

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As for comfort, this is why I over extend the arms and wear them loose.


 
   
  Yeah, That's what I tried, but they were still too clampy for me.  Maybe my head is just wider than the norm.  I don't really have a sound preference so to say.  I liked the sound that came from the PC360, I'm just saying for the price tag, they really didn't blow me away.
   
  I was actually really wanting to buy the A40s, but from my research there are just so many microphone related issues with the 2013 mixamp that can't be ignored.  I don't know if you personally tested that or not, but pretty much every source I check has stated there is a problem.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Get on it, STAT!...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Get on it, STAT!...


 

  Lol, I'm not rich. I haven't listened to any IEM's or STAX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All IEMs I have used dont do well with DH gaming compared to full sized headphones. Dont see why anyone would even bother. If uou have some, go for it, but no IEMs will ever compare to what a full sized headphone can do.


----------



## Impulse

An IEM doesn't engage your whole ear the way a full size headphone does, and the rest of your ear past the ear canal isn't just there for show or as an evolutionary remnant...  Just like portable on ears or clip-ons (or headphones vs speakers), they'll always have their limit.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All IEMs I have used dont do well with DH gaming compared to full sized headphones. Dont see why anyone would even bother. If uou have some, go for it, but no IEMs will ever compare to what a full sized headphone can do.


 
  Thank you for the input. I pretty much had given up on the idea, lol. It was just something that struck me at the last minute. Don't know why my knowledge of psykoacoustics, however little it may be, failed to present itself. I should know better, lol. You're right. Imaging and soundstaging is certainly better in cans vs IEM's. So, Mad, have you found anything better in the price range besides the Annies? It's not just a rebranded K702 apparently (some feel that there is only a minor difference).
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> An IEM doesn't engage your whole ear the way a full size headphone does, and the rest of your ear past the ear canal isn't just there for show or as an evolutionary remnant...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Right right. I know that, lol. Wouldn't it be better if a headphone was more like an ear speaker then? Something that just kinda hung there?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd have to compare the Q and Annie directly, but based on memory, I don't feel the difference is minor. It is similar in soundstage and clarity, but the Annie is warmer and definitely more bassy in the way that the bass is noticeably fuller and more engaging, and not necessarily turning the AKG into a basshead headphone. It basically makes the sound coming off the Qs, fuller, even more balanced, and musical.

 I feel that with that change in tone as well as a huge boost in comfort from the headband and pads, its worth getting over the Qs and other Ks.

 Like I mentioned before, I wouldn't have ever used the Qs for music, but the Annie's difference made it to where I wanna use them all the time for music. Since getting the Annies, I have been using them almost nonstop for all purposes. My HE400 is looking a bit neglected.

As always a subtle change in SQ tends to be worth hundreds of dollars (I.e. D5000 vs D7000), so ultimately it's up to you to decide whether the premium is worth it.

Realistically, I feel the improvement over the others would put the Annie as a $350 headphone, but you have to factor in the cost of it being limited release, and the new headband/pads.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd have to compare the Q and Annie directly, but based on memory, I don't feel the difference is minor. It is similar in soundstage and clarity, but the Annie is warmer and definitely more bassy. I feel that with thay change in tone as well as a huge boost in comfort from the headband and pads, its worth getting over the Qs and other Ks.
> 
> Like I mentioned before, I wouldn't have ever used the Qs for music, but the Annie's difference made it to where I wanna use them all the time for music. Since getting the Annies, I have been using them almost nonstop for all purposes. My HE400 is looking a bit neglected.
> 
> As always a subtle change in SQ tends to be worth hundreds of dollars (I.e. D5000 vs D7000), so ultimately it's up to you to decide whether the premium is worth it.


 

 All right. As compared to everything else in the, idk, around $500 price range, this is it eh? Nah, def not worth it, lol. $410-$430 is plenty enough as it is, lol.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Right right. I know that, lol. Wouldn't it be better if a headphone was more like an ear speaker then? Something that just kinda hung there?


 
  Sort of like a speaker mounted to each side of your head somehow?
   
  Maybe connect the two in such away that they hung off your head?
   
  Maybe even use some sort of padding to seal the sound better and comfort?
   
  You could be onto something there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There are plenty of headphones I havent heard yet in the price range.

Beyer T90 maybe? But I'm done with the Beyer treble peaks, and I'm moving towards warmer, smoother sound with more musicality.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> Sort of like a speaker mounted to each side of your head somehow?
> 
> Maybe connect the two in such away that they hung off your head?
> 
> ...


 
  Yup, but the problem with that is, the speakers would blend with each other. I guess that's why most headphones come with a seal, lol.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There are plenty of headphones I havent heard yet in the price range.
> 
> Beyer T90 maybe? But I'm done with the Beyer treble peaks, and I'm moving towards warmer, smoother sound with more musicality.


 
  I wish I knew of all of them, to compare.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All I know is that nothing outside of Stax and HD800 will compare to the AD700/K/Q/Annie soundstage, which is a huge reason why they are so potent for gaming use.

The Annie's amazing tonal balance paired up with that soundstage is what makes them so infectious. You do get a huge chunk of what I mean with the Q701, but miss that fullness the Annie adds to the Q's sound.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All I know is that nothing outside of Stax and HD800 will compare to the AD700/K/Q/Annie soundstage, which is a huge reason why they are so potent for gaming use.
> 
> The Annie's amazing tonal balance paired up with that soundstage is what makes them so infectious. You do get a huge chunk of what I mean with the Q701, but miss that fullness the Annie adds to the Q's sound.


 
   
  Got it  Thank you sir. Just waiting for that $409 price again... EDIT: Speak of the devil, lol. There it is. Right on time. Camelcamelcamel had not updated yet to show the reflected price, but I looked at the recent pattern for the pricing. $499 in the very early A.M., then $409 into the later P.M. It's been going on like that for around 5 days. Right on time again today, $409. BUYING NOW.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I wish I knew of all of them, to compare.


 
   
  What is it you find lacking with in your 701's that you feel the need to change?
   
  By all accounts they're pretty awesome in themselves.
   
  Perhaps what you're after isn't really possible to roll all up in 1 single headphone - if it's more likely to be the case maybe keep the 701's and grab a set of Samson SR850's ($30??) for those times you want the extra bass. If you like them enough grab some velour pads and you'll be wrapped. They probably cover the fun factor that the 701's are missing.
   
  If there's something else you thing is lacking in the 701's is it in gaming or music?
   
  If it's the music side then again - keep the 701's and grab a cheaper pair for music - the world is much more open there if you're not as needful of directional/positional queues as you are in games.
   
  The Audio Techica M-50's ($100??) could fill that spot very well for instance if you're after a more bassy sound, but aren't much good for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He could also get an E17 or E7K and use them to add bass to the Q701 and pre-amp to a real amp with it's bypass switch.

Seriously, if I wasnt so against tweaking a headphone's innate sound, I would have stuck with t. E17 as my dac, use the LO bypass and hook that up to my amp, and use the bass balance controls on the E17.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> What is it you find lacking with in your 701's that you feel the need to change?
> 
> By all accounts they're pretty awesome in themselves.
> 
> ...


 

 I meant all the headphones in the price range. I just like to make an informed decision. From what I've read, from some, the Annies fix every single flaw I had with the Q's, so I'll give it a go. Thank you for the input though


----------



## raband

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> He could also get an E17 or E7K and use them to add bass to the Q701 and pre-amp to a real amp with it's bypass switch.


 
   
  Yeah - was going to suggest an amp with bass boost or even just EQ'ing if it's music where he's finding a lack.
   
  More details on what he's after compared to what he has could help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the Q701 with the E17 (and E07k) at +4 bass would be amazing. I enjoyed the Q701 with a software bass boost just fine. I just rather not mess with eq, personally.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> Yeah - was going to suggest an amp with bass boost or even just EQ'ing if it's music where he's finding a lack.
> 
> More details on what he's after compared to what he has could help.


 
  Hey, lol, I ordered the Annie you two. I edited my post. BestSeller21 on Amazon - New for $409.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure the Q701 with the E17 (and E07k) at +4 bass would be amazing. I enjoyed the Q701 with a software bass boost just fine. I just rather not mess with eq, personally.


 
  Read response above, and once again, thank you


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





raband said:


> Sort of like a speaker mounted to each side of your head somehow?
> 
> Maybe connect the two in such away that they hung off your head?
> 
> ...


 
  AKG 1000 says hello. 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There are plenty of headphones I havent heard yet in the price range.
> 
> Beyer T90 maybe? But I'm done with the Beyer treble peaks, and I'm moving towards warmer, smoother sound with more musicality.


 
  Reading through the Beyer T90 thread that is one picky ass headphone. Some amps give it bass, some take it all away, sometimes it is K701, sometimes it is worse then a T70, sometimes better. Having to have a specific setup for just one headphone outside of a electrostatic just sounds like a pain in the rump and I am far to lazy for that, as much as I love the look of the T90. Hope in 2013/14 Beyer wakes the hell up and produces a proper big brother to the DTseries.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Hey, lol, I ordered the Annie you two. I edited my post. BestSeller21 on Amazon - New for $409.
> Read response above, and once again, thank you


 

 Yay, cant wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> AKG 1000 says hello.
> 
> Reading through the Beyer T90 thread that is one picky ass headphone. Some amps give it bass, some take it all away, sometimes it is K701, sometimes it is worse then a T70, sometimes better. Having to have a specific setup for just one headphone outside of a electrostatic just sounds like a pain in the rump and I am far to lazy for that, as much as I love the look of the T90. Hope in 2013/14 Beyer wakes the hell up and produces a proper big brother to the DTseries.


 

 Good to know about that Beyer. Def would not be interested in that. Yeah, that's right. I couldn't remember what it was. AKG 1000. While I'm on the subject of AKG, since I always tout their universal IEM, I think I found a better one. The Sennheiser IE800. That freq response is INSANE, especially for a 7mm driver!


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





jhalf said:


> Yay, cant wait to hear your impressions.


 
   
  I'm completely new to all this, but I'll try my best to give it a go. I'm nothing like Mad when reviewing/giving impressions for headphones. I'm excited too though  I can't wait! I'll get to pair it up with my receiver, which I recently just turned down the DSP setting on the Action Game DSP, which helped with reverb.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> AKG 1000 says hello.
> 
> Reading through the Beyer T90 thread that is one picky ass headphone. Some amps give it bass, some take it all away, sometimes it is K701, sometimes it is worse then a T70, sometimes better. Having to have a specific setup for just one headphone outside of a electrostatic just sounds like a pain in the rump and I am far to lazy for that, as much as I love the look of the T90. Hope in 2013/14 Beyer wakes the hell up and produces a proper big brother to the DTseries.




When I first read impressions on the T90, they sounded like something I'd want. Then the impressions started going all over the place. That made me not want them at all. I have zero desire to try them now. Looks like Beyer is at it again with driver variation on the same headphone. It's annoying. I wanted the well balanced, slightly bass light DT770/600. Instead, I got the opposite. I don't wanna play the lottery with my headphones, so I'm kind of done with Beyer. At least their 990s have been pretty consistent.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Good to know about that Beyer. Def would not be interested in that. Yeah, that's right. I couldn't remember what it was. AKG 1000. While I'm on the subject of AKG, since I always tout their universal IEM, I think I found a better one. The Sennheiser IE800. That freq response is INSANE, especially for a 7mm driver!


 
  I know you don't like them but at 1000 dollars I would buy a custom. That is insane for a IEM I would be afraid to even breath around.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I know you don't like them but at 1000 dollars I would buy a custom. That is insane for a IEM I would be afraid to even breath around.


 
   
  Never will buy a custom, lol. It is insane. The price will drop with time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I forgot about the K1000. I so wanna try them, but I'd never wear it around people, lol.

That natural crossfeed plus humongous soundstage... so wanna try it.


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Yup, but the problem with that is, the speakers would blend with each other. I guess that's why most headphones come with a seal, lol.




Pretty sure he was just being sarcastic and describing typical headphone construction, which is what you were doing as well (knowingly or otherwise). There's only so much you can do with two ear sized drivers and the space between two ears tho, as compared to the drivers, tweeters, bass ports, subs etc etc in a speaker setup that you can spread all around a room.

Point is, at the most basic levels headphones are just speakers hanging off your head, speakers severely constrained by the laws of physics... Less of a wallet drainer tho!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Two speakers hovering over your ears is basically what the K1000 is. You can try a ghetto version of this by holding two desktop speakers next to your ears. Itsa very good effect. That natural crossfeed makes listening a lot less fatiguing than when listening to headphones that are playing sounds on just one ear. It hurts, really. That's another reason why Dolby Headphone is so pleasing to me. You get that virtual crossfeed.


----------



## Hailin

I would try the k1000 and Jecklin floats as odd as they both are I wouldn't do it in public.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I would try the k1000 and Jecklin floats as odd as they both are I wouldn't do it in public.


 
  They're not meant for public wear, lol.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I forgot about the K1000. I so wanna try them, but I'd never wear it around people, lol.
> 
> That natural crossfeed plus humongous soundstage... so wanna try it.


 
  Meee too.
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Pretty sure he was just being sarcastic and describing typical headphone construction, which is what you were doing as well (knowingly or otherwise). There's only so much you can do with two ear sized drivers and the space between two ears tho, as compared to the drivers, tweeters, bass ports, subs etc etc in a speaker setup that you can spread all around a room.
> 
> Point is, at the most basic levels headphones are just speakers hanging off your head, speakers severely constrained by the laws of physics... Less of a wallet drainer tho!


 
  Idk, lol. That's right.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Two speakers hovering over your ears is basically what the K1000 is. You can try a ghetto version of this by holding two desktop speakers next to your ears. Itsa very good effect. That natural crossfeed makes listening a lot less fatiguing than when listening to headphones that are playing sounds on just one ear. It hurts, really. That's another reason why Dolby Headphone is so pleasing to me. You get that virtual crossfeed.


 
  Yup, it is, lol. Huh, interesting. I'm gonna read about crossfeed, lol. EDIT: 10seconds later... Oh. Pretty simple stuff, lol. *goes to read about AKG k1000


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-268-iems-compared-visang-vs-k1-added-01-03-13#post_6492059 Maybe this is the most comprehensive list there is for IEM's, lol. It even has the K3003! Lol.


 
   
  So comprehensive...and yet no mention of the Stax S-001 or S-002 systems (or the SR-003 standalone IEM set meant to plug into Pro bias Stax desktop amps), argh. (Then again, those kind of stretch the definition of "IEM" a bit...you'd understand when you see them. Much bigger than any other IEM sets I know of.)
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> You know, there should be a headphone gaming guide that is IEM specific, seeing as how this is Full-size (mainly) specific, as well as one with STAX.


 
   
  You wouldn't need to look any further than this particular guide if MLE and I could sort out the amplification issue for the latter.
   
  As for IEMs, all I know is that the EDGE Acoustics GX-400 is a rare case of an IEM marketed specifically for gaming, and that the in-line mic and volume adjustment is literally the only thing differentiating it from the Etymotic ER-4P it's based on.
   
  Of course, there's also those Stax IEM setups I mentioned earlier, which have a reputation for soundstage well beyond most IEMs. As for how it compares to full-size headphones, I can't say yet without an audition.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Two speakers hovering over your ears is basically what the K1000 is. You can try a ghetto version of this by holding two desktop speakers next to your ears. Itsa very good effect. That natural crossfeed makes listening a lot less fatiguing than when listening to headphones that are playing sounds on just one ear. It hurts, really. That's another reason why Dolby Headphone is so pleasing to me. You get that virtual crossfeed.


 
   
  The only thing that kills the appeal of those "earspeaker" designs is that the natural crossfeed combined with the drivers being perpendicular instead of parallel to your ears would make any binaural/HRTF-mixed sources utterly useless. That means no Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D Headphone for me, and that just won't do.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> So comprehensive...and yet no mention of the Stax S-001 or S-002 systems (or the SR-003 standalone IEM set meant to plug into Pro bias Stax desktop amps), argh. (Then again, those kind of stretch the definition of "IEM" a bit...you'd understand when you see them. Much bigger than any other IEM sets I know of.)
> 
> 
> You wouldn't need to look any further than this particular guide if MLE and I could sort out the amplification issue for the latter.
> ...


 

 I know I know, lol. In due time I'm sure. I shall do some research! lol. Well, then what's the use of the earspeakers then?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I know I know, lol. In due time I'm sure. I shall do some research! lol. Well, then what's the use of the earspeakers then?


 
   
  Such earspeaker designs were designed with conventional music listening in mind. Most music tracks are mixed with stereo speakers in mind, so anyone who's primarily looking for a headphone that can replicate that experience would be more satisfied with the earspeaker designs like the AKG K1000 or a Stax Sigma.
   
  In other news, damn, do I wish I had $535 right now. See what I mean when I say that dedicated Stax amps aren't cheap?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Such earspeaker designs were designed with conventional music listening in mind. Most music tracks are mixed with stereo speakers in mind, so anyone who's primarily looking for a headphone that can replicate that experience would be more satisfied with the earspeaker designs like the AKG K1000 or a Stax Sigma.
> 
> In other news, damn, do I wish I had $535 right now. See what I mean when I say that dedicated Stax amps aren't cheap?


 
   
  Got ittt. I thought as much a bit after I asked the question. Yeah, I remember you saying that. What about something non-dedicated?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I forgot about the K1000. I so wanna try them, but I'd never wear it around people, lol.
> 
> That natural crossfeed plus humongous soundstage... so wanna try it.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Two speakers hovering over your ears is basically what the K1000 is. You can try a ghetto version of this by holding two desktop speakers next to your ears. Itsa very good effect. That natural crossfeed makes listening a lot less fatiguing than when listening to headphones that are playing sounds on just one ear. It hurts, really. That's another reason why Dolby Headphone is so pleasing to me. You get that virtual crossfeed.


 
   
   
  I would just go for the Sony MA900 for that effect.  No need to spend ~$1000 on the K1000, which I have a feeling probably got an instant overhype boost as soon as it became discontinued. 
   
  I had the MDR F1 and it had the same natural crossfeed effect.  The MA900 is supposed to be an improvement over the F1.
   
  The problem with those types of headphones is that they aren't great for Dolby Headphone and handling HRTFs.  They already have a diffuse sound and sound similar to dolby pro logic in stereo.  Something like the AD700 becomes razor sharp when put into dolby headphone, but the crossfeedy headphones still sound a little fuzzy in imaging.  They sound cool though, sort of holographic, just not super sharp.  I like them for movies.


----------



## Impulse

Huh, I tried the MA900 recently... Didn't really know much about them before trying them, I did like them but wasn't floored. Didn't have anything useful to compare them to either tho. They were certainly comfortable, the very obviously angled drivers and that weird slot they cut into the cups seem odd at first but they're very lightweight. I didn't even realize they had 70mm drivers at the time.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Got ittt. I thought as much a bit after I asked the question. Yeah, I remember you saying that. What about something non-dedicated?


 
   
  Like I said before, SRD-series transformer boxes come with most of the cheaper Stax setups, and speaker amps (usually in the form of integrated receivers) are everywhere.
   
  Kind of bulky and kludgy for just a headphone amplification system, but it works.


----------



## tmaxx123

Watched some of 300 on blu-ray on the mmx 300's off just the mixamp and they sounded great. I have yet to try my sennheiser ie8's on the mixamp. Gotta get around to doing that ASAP.


----------



## calpis

Played some Blops2 with some etymotic er4p's w/ mixamp. Going to give it a shot for a week and use them exclusively. It's been a few months since I actually used them and kinda forgot how much I liked them for certain types of music. 
   
  Oh and on the topic of the K1000, someone here should grab the Sony "version" of them.
  http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PFRV1-Personal-Speaker-Headphones/dp/B0017IJALY
  The only place that I saw that had demos of these was at Fry's but they were always either broken or some ****** would have already pushed in the dust cover.


----------



## Rexxen

I tried swapping the pads on the q701/annies. And the annies still sounded noticeably fuller and warmer than the q701 with the q701 pads. I'm not sure who said these were just repackaged q701's but it would be hard mistake one another side by side in any state. Even days apart I could blindly label the q701 and annies regardless of which pads are used imo. They're similar sounding ofc but, at least my pairs, are distinctly different. And for my tastes the annies are a true upgrade to the q701. It's worth noting that I preferred the q701's with the annies memory pads to the stock q701 pads, but I wouldn't pay more than 40 usd for them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should post that comparison on the Annie thread, so people know what's up.

Thanks again for the comparison. 

So looks like you Q owners need to start looking for some memory foam AKG pads.


----------



## seb UK

Hey guys, just got a new E09k to go with my DT990 Pro's (250 ohm). They are running off a DSS2. Got a couple of questions about it.
   
  I'm trying to work out the difference the amp is making. It is obviously louder, but the DSS2 was already able to get games and movies to a the loudest volume my ears could take. The headroom is now a lot bigger, but I'm not sure I need it.
   
  I've tested it on Battlefield 3, Mass Effect 3 and been viewing some movie trailers. Everything sounds essentially the same but with more volume available. For Mass Effect 3, the bass in terms of tightness and kick when you go through the mass relays sounds almost identical to me. 
   
  I'm wondering if anyone knows of a relatively 'scientific' sound test I can use to see the difference between the DT990s amped and unamped because just playing games doesn't seem to be highlighting them to me. I'm being a bit picky because the amp was 110 pounds and if there isn't much difference I'll probably send it back.

 Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Games dont highlight the difference the way music does. Youre already playing in virtual surround which smooths over the sound signature and hides defects.

If you plan on using them for music, they will be worthwhile as long as you have a dac. If you only use It for gaming and dont need the extra volume (like when using an external mic), then you may As well save your money if you dont see yourself needing it for music ever.


----------



## seb UK

BTW I have the E09k on high gain and it is about 11 o'clock volume setting which I read is where the E09 is optimised.


----------



## seb UK

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Games dont highlight the difference the way music does. Youre already playing in virtual surround which smooths over the sound signature and hides defects.
> 
> If you plan on using them for music, they will be worthwhile as long as you have a dac.


 
  Cheers - Not planning on using them for music, just movies and games.
   
  If I plug the DT990 straight into my macbook is is really obvious it needs the E09k, as the volume it can get to is pretty weak! But I'm not planning on doing that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You shouldn't be plugging in the E9K to the Macbook directly. You should be using a DAC, just FYI. 

As long as you're happy with how you use it, don't worry about anything else.

Damn, so after all that neglect I've been giving the HE-400, I decided to use them today. You can definitely tell the bass is fuller than the K702 Annies. It makes it hard to give up for music, as I mostly listen to bass heavy genres... ARGH! I thought I'd be willing to part with it, but they keep surprising me. I'm gonna wait until I get the X1 and then decide if I'll give the HE-400 up or not.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quick question, what sound signature would you use to describe the Annie? Bright, warm, etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's warm. Absolutely. It sounds like a much more open HD650, with more energy and sparkle, but noticeably warmer than the Q701 which was already a slightly warm headphone. Not HE-400 warm, but close. If I could say anything, I'd say it's the most neutral/balanced headphone I've owned that favors warmth.

If a song is bassy, the Annie will fill out that bass just fine. The HE-400 will romanticize the bass a little, while the Annie will be more true to it.

The mids are not comparable... at all. The Annie's mids walk all over the HE-400's.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

So it is decided then, I'm going to buy the Schiit Magni/Modi stack. For the price, it is probably the amp/DAC to get.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What are you going to pair with it? It's is a slightly dry amp, and it favors warm/smooth headphones. I didn't get a chance to use the Annie with it. I sent out the Magni/Modi two days before getting the Annie.

Man, there are some songs where I SWEAR the bass is stronger on the Annie than the HE-400. I think it might be a bigger mid bass emphasis, but since the HE-400 is relatively flatter all the way down to the sub bass, it tends to sound fuller in the bass than the Annie on most tracks.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

... the Annies. I bought them this week on credit. Should be arriving Thursday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, the Magni/Modi may make the Annie sound more neutral than what I'm used to hearing, and also has a very miniscule tip towards treble. Still, I'm sure the Annie will sound great off it. Even though the HE-400 is treble heavy, the Magni/Modi did them some good justice, so I wouldn't be worried about the Annie which has smoother treble.

I hope with all my heart you enjoy them. Take your time with them. I'm 99% sure they will impress. I'm swapping from the HE-400 to the Annie, and they're so different and both SO damn good. The mids on the Annies... are so much more forward and present. I mean, it's so obvious.

I HATE having two headphones that demand attention. ARGH.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Played some Blops2 with some etymotic er4p's w/ mixamp. Going to give it a shot for a week and use them exclusively. It's been a few months since I actually used them and kinda forgot how much I liked them for certain types of music.
> 
> Oh and on the topic of the K1000, someone here should grab the Sony "version" of them.
> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PFRV1-Personal-Speaker-Headphones/dp/B0017IJALY
> The only place that I saw that had demos of these was at Fry's but they were always either broken or some ****** would have already pushed in the dust cover.


 
  Which is basically like that of the gaming IEM Nameless mentioned. Nice. Well, I'd be curious what your findings are.
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Huh, I tried the MA900 recently... Didn't really know much about them before trying them, I did like them but wasn't floored. Didn't have anything useful to compare them to either tho. They were certainly comfortable, the very obviously angled drivers and that weird slot they cut into the cups seem odd at first but they're very lightweight. I didn't even realize they had 70mm drivers at the time.


 
  Hmm, thanks for the input  I was interested in earspeakers.
  Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> Watched some of 300 on blu-ray on the mmx 300's off just the mixamp and they sounded great. I have yet to try my sennheiser ie8's on the mixamp. Gotta get around to doing that ASAP.


 
  I'd be interested in what your IE8's sound like.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Like I said before, SRD-series transformer boxes come with most of the cheaper Stax setups, and speaker amps (usually in the form of integrated receivers) are everywhere.
> 
> Kind of bulky and kludgy for just a headphone amplification system, but it works.


 
  At least it's not as expensive.
  Quote: 





rexxen said:


> I tried swapping the pads on the q701/annies. And the annies still sounded noticeably fuller and warmer than the q701 with the q701 pads. I'm not sure who said these were just repackaged q701's but it would be hard mistake one another side by side in any state. Even days apart I could blindly label the q701 and annies regardless of which pads are used imo. They're similar sounding ofc but, at least my pairs, are distinctly different. And for my tastes the annies are a true upgrade to the q701. It's worth noting that I preferred the q701's with the annies memory pads to the stock q701 pads, but I wouldn't pay more than 40 usd for them.


 
  Thank you! Glad someone finally did this.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You shouldn't be plugging in the E9K to the Macbook directly. You should be using a DAC, just FYI.
> 
> As long as you're happy with how you use it, don't worry about anything else.
> 
> Damn, so after all that neglect I've been giving the HE-400, I decided to use them today. You can definitely tell the bass is fuller than the K702 Annies. It makes it hard to give up for music, as I mostly listen to bass heavy genres... ARGH! I thought I'd be willing to part with it, but they keep surprising me. I'm gonna wait until I get the X1 and then decide if I'll give the HE-400 up or not.


 
  Yeah, I'll be curious on how you feel about the X1 as well. What's all they hype about with that headphone?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's warm. Absolutely. It sounds like a much more open HD650, with more energy and sparkle, but noticeably warmer than the Q701 which was already a slightly warm headphone. Not HE-400 warm, but close. If I could say anything, I'd say it's the most neutral/balanced headphone I've owned that favors warmth.
> 
> If a song is bassy, the Annie will fill out that bass just fine. The HE-400 will romanticize the bass a little, while the Annie will be more true to it.
> 
> The mids are not comparable... at all. The Annie's mids walk all over the HE-400's.


 
   
  Thanks for the info on the mids Mad. I was curious about the HE-400 myself.


----------



## SoAmusing777

For anyone purchasing the Annies, be careful where you buy your stuff from. Read below.
   
  Blacklisted Non-Authorized Resellers
 PROLENSES
 emusic Enterprise - Boom
 LCD Stores
 eSaveNY
 #1 Source
 Buy Buy Online
 IEstore
 PJPNY
 J-Electronics
 ebestpurchase
   
  source: http://deals.woot.com/questions/details/5301f963-e65e-44de-a627-f236bc67fcf8/could-i-get-some-advice-on-counterfeit-earbuds
   
  These threads on Head-Fi also have info pointing towards Emusic Enterprise (the one that's selling the AKG Annies for the lowest price $401 [$405.99 w/shipping] on Amazon) being a counterfeiter: http://www.head-fi.org/t/600940/counter-fit-or-legit-dealer-please-help and http://www.head-fi.org/t/616077/dont-buy-any-fiio-product-from-sainstore-on-amazon-and-how-to-distinguish-a-genuine-fiio-e6-from-a-fake-one/150
   
  Might just wanna buy the Annies from BestSeller21 for $409 total, where I got mine.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I bought mine from eStudioStar on eBay. The main reason I went with it is because they also have an Amazon.com listing, so they must be legit. I bought them on eBay because I can pay with PayPal and use bill me later.
  
   
  As a side note, I haven't even received my cans and I'm already thinking of the my next possible purchase. I really want to try out the Stax Combo, if nothing else, just to be able to say I own one since they have this distinct look. But really, after having just bought the Annies, I would probably be better off buying something that compliments it, maybe the Fidelio X1. The Stax would be something along the same line (even if it is better) as the Annies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's how I bought my SA-31 and Compass 2. Bill me later. 

I plan on paying most of my balance off once I sell the SA-31 and ODAC.


Hmm....

Seeing as I cant sleep, may as well start packing up the Astro/Skullcandy care package for return.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

You know, I'm deciding on what to do with my Wii. I was going to send it to my nephews and I still might, but it's just that Nintendo decided not to enable Dolby Pro Logic II on Wii U to save five cents and games won't work with it unless they have the in game option. The thing is most Nintendo games don't. I'm specially bitter than Metroid Prime Trilogy does not have it. Granted, I never even knew/cared about Dolby Pro Logic II until recently but still, I would have liked to use it now that I know about it. With that said, I really don't think it is worth keeping one console just to play one game when I could give it to others who will probably get more enjoyment out of it. Besides, the Wii U can always play Wii U games, even if most of them are in stereo...
   
  Nintendo really screwed the pooch this time. For all the talk of making Wii U this media hub they went about it the wrong way. They use LCPM only and want to stream Hulu plus and similar services when they only use Dolby Digital, which results in stereo only. I know this was likely done to offload work from the CPU in order to minimize latency (as well as saving a few pennies) but this just creates this weird scenario where Wii U is basically in purgatory. It's as if Nintendo wants everybody to bend over backwards and play by their rules when they themselves just arrived to the game. I'll probably end up buying one but I won't be for its presumed media hub capabilities.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Made my rounds on Amazon and added the reviews there for the A40, A50, and SLYR. Help me out by saying it's helpful or something, lol.

Ah yes, also added the reviews (edited) to the A40 and A50 listings on Astro's website, though they're not up yet. I tried to add the SLYR on the SC website, but it kept giving BS about inappropriate language. :rolleyes:


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> You know, I'm deciding on what to do with my Wii. I was going to send it to my nephews and I still might, but it's just that Nintendo decided not to enable Dolby Pro Logic II on Wii U to save five cents and games won't work with it unless they have the in game option. The thing is most Nintendo games don't. I'm specially bitter than Metroid Prime Trilogy does not have it. Granted, I never even knew/cared about Dolby Pro Logic II until recently but still, I would have liked to use it now that I know about it. With that said, I really don't think it is worth keeping one console just to play one game when I could give it to others who will probably get more enjoyment out of it. Besides, the Wii U can always play Wii U games, even if most of them are in stereo...
> 
> Nintendo really screwed the pooch this time. For all the talk of making Wii U this media hub they went about it the wrong way. They use LCPM only and want to stream Hulu plus and similar services when they only use Dolby Digital, which results in stereo only. I know this was likely done to offload work from the CPU in order to minimize latency (as well as saving a few pennies) but this just creates this weird scenario where Wii U is basically in purgatory. It's as if Nintendo wants everybody to bend over backwards and play by their rules when they themselves just arrived to the game. I'll probably end up buying one but I won't be for its presumed media hub capabilities.


 
   
  If I do get a Wii U, I'm keeping the Wii to serve as a GameCube. My actual GCN got sent overseas a long time ago, along with the infamously rare component cables.
   
  Wait, you can't set Pro Logic II for Wii games through the Wii settings menu on the Wii U (assuming it's just like the Wii interface in that regard)? Well, that's a load of crap. I'll have to look into this whenever I get the chance, because I know Metroid Prime Trilogy supports Dolby Pro Logic II and does have noticeable surround effects with my SU-DH1.
   
  I don't mind the use of LPCM over HDMI, but no S/PDIF output with Dolby Digital or DTS support limits its versatility, and now you're telling me that it can't even bitstream Dolby Digital over HDMI either? I wonder why Nintendo wouldn't pay up for the licensing when a fair number of Wii games already use Pro Logic II anyway.
   
  That said, media hub capabilities out of a console are a very distant second for me. (Closest I ever got to that was XBMC on my original Xboxes.) They're meant to play games, and anything else is a bonus.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wanna know something funny? I'm pretty sure the Annie leaks out less than the Slyr and A40. O_O


----------



## calpis

Sooo I went ahead and upgraded my H&K avr247 to the avr254. There were a couple minor dents on the top so I managed to get it for $80. But the thing I didn't realize was that it doesn't have an optical out port like the avr247. Oh well, can't win em all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You mainly need it for the HDMI though right? 80 dollars, what a steal.


----------



## Impulse

The mass market really doesn't care all that much about audio, cheap HTiB systems are what most people consider "high end" and they usually have stuff pretty poorly wired/configured/placed anyway. It's sad but true, I'd take a gamble that this would apply even more so to Nintendo's average target audience (no offense to anyone, I love me some Smash Bro and Kart). In light of that, it's not very shocking they would cheap out on that end.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to any X1 comparisons, tho a Philips rep made my heart sink a little when he posted the MSRP was $399. Still tho, they might be worth that much (opinions on the X1 thread are still kinda scatter shot IMO) and they'll probably fall below that fairly quickly like their other recent releases.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Sooo I went ahead and upgraded my H&K avr247 to the avr254. There were a couple minor dents on the top so I managed to get it for $80. But the thing I didn't realize was that it doesn't have an optical out port like the avr247. Oh well, can't win em all.


 
  Dang man. That is one heck of a steal. How is Dolby Headphone on that through HDMI?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You mainly need it for the HDMI though right? 80 dollars, what a steal.


 
  I was thinking the same exact things.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im fairly certain the street price on the X1 will go down by a bit. Philips doesn't have the price restrictions that other companies have.

Realistically, I expect them to sell for $300-350 in the near future.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You mainly need it for the HDMI though right? 80 dollars, what a steal.


 
  Yeah, really wanted that extra HDMI slot. But another bonus is that it does DTS MA and Dolby HD and also the switch from a blue lit volume and power to a white. The menu system and on screen stuff is also much much better.
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Dang man. That is one heck of a steal. How is Dolby Headphone on that through HDMI?
> I was thinking the same exact things.


 
  Same as it was with the 247?


----------



## tmaxx123

Played around with the ie8's off just the mixamp. Was a nice experience not having a huge headset on my head, but still getting a surprisingly big soundstage out of them. They have a noticably more punchy bass and midbass, but the treble sounds similar to the beyers. Sounded awesome on the "pro" eq setting, because the others make the bass really over the top. Directional ques were extremely easy to pick up when surrounding in game noise wasn't very hectic. But because of the smaller soundstage, when gameplay got hectic sounds were harder to separate. 
  For competitive play, ill stick to the beyers.
   
  ie8's havent given up on surprising me, because they sounded great on music and watching some action scenes from the 300 blu-ray.
   
  Didn't really learn anything too groundbreaking, but man was it fun!


----------



## Auralicious

Hey MLE, this is a great comparison and an excellent resource for anyone trying to get some good feedback on the various headphones/headsets out there. Do you think you could get hold of the new Sennheiser PC 363D to review? They look like they might be a good option as they come bundled with a Dolby Headphone sound card. I am considering them at the moment but would be interested to know what you think of them.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I've decided that the Stax SR-009 is my dream headphone. Obviously I don't have the money for it right now, but someday...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roger de ceiba said:


> I've decided that the Stax SR-009 is my dream headphone. Obviously I don't have the money for it right now, but someday...




That's MANY people's dream headphone. It's literally like the best headphone in the world, lol. My dream headphone is the D7000 with velours that don't alter the sound signature. Seriously.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





auralicious said:


> Hey MLE, this is a great comparison and an excellent resource for anyone trying to get some good feedback on the various headphones/headsets out there. Do you think you could get hold of the new Sennheiser PC 363D to review? They look like they might be a good option as they come bundled with a Dolby Headphone sound card. I am considering them at the moment but would be interested to know what you think of them.


 
   
  The DH sound card only works for PC, not for consoles. MLE isn't much of a PC gamer...
   
  -Erik


----------



## ivon3ry

Hi
   
  I'm new on this forum and sorry for ma language, soon i will buy soundcard, headphones and tube amp. I think about:
   
  Creative Titanium HD
  Little Dot MK IV SE
  Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 Ohm
   
  This is good idea?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





ivon3ry said:


> I'm new on this forum and sorry for ma language, soon I will buy sound card, headphones and tube amp. I think about:
> Creative Titanium HD
> Little Dot MK IV SE
> Beyerdynamic DT 990 600 Ohm
> This is good idea?


 
  Looks good to me.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Yeah, really wanted that extra HDMI slot. But another bonus is that it does DTS MA and Dolby HD and also the switch from a blue lit volume and power to a white. The menu system and on screen stuff is also much much better.
> Same as it was with the 247?


 
  It was a dumb question. I got mixed up. I thought you used only DD 5.1 on your previous AVR. Mah bad.
  Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> Played around with the ie8's off just the mixamp. Was a nice experience not having a huge headset on my head, but still getting a surprisingly big soundstage out of them. They have a noticably more punchy bass and midbass, but the treble sounds similar to the beyers. Sounded awesome on the "pro" eq setting, because the others make the bass really over the top. Directional ques were extremely easy to pick up when surrounding in game noise wasn't very hectic. But because of the smaller soundstage, when gameplay got hectic sounds were harder to separate.
> For competitive play, ill stick to the beyers.
> 
> ie8's havent given up on surprising me, because they sounded great on music and watching some action scenes from the 300 blu-ray.
> ...


 
  Just realized that using IEM's for gaming wouldn't work because I need a place for the mic to go, lol. I guess if it was the inline mic thing it would work, but lots of them don't have that. Maybe a clip on then. Anyway, interesting about the soundstage and ques. I'd like to have IEM's for portability/workout purposes.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I've decided that the Stax SR-009 is my dream headphone. Obviously I don't have the money for it right now, but someday...


 
  The top of the line Stax. Nice.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Aw blast, I didn't even realize I forgot the C. Oh well, only said what we all think when we read it anyway. Serious marketing balls of steel there.
> 
> I like IPS monitors, they do pretty well. I haven't seen OLED screens before (though I thought some DSLR cameras had them?). However, I have NEVER seen picture quality like I get with my Panasonic Plasma. Panasonic inherited (bought) Pioneer's Plasma tech, which was the best in the world. Samsung has developed their plasmas to be very good and almost as great as the Panasonic/Pioneer sets, but... Well, my 42" plasma really astounds me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I know it's an old post Ev, but I just wanted to say I had the DSP to +3, and turning it down reallllyyy helped. Thanks, lol.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, I just won a bid on eBay for a used Mixamp. I don't know what version it is (hopefully it is the 2011 version). I don't think it really matters much anyway since I plan to use it exclusively with the Wii (5.1 via Pro Logic II). I've made up my mind and I'm probably going to keep mine. Well, maybe not keep it exactly as I may send my own away and maybe get another (used) one, but the principle in the same. I'm sending mine because of the saved games (Brawl) with most of the characters and other content unlocked. That way they can begin having fun right away.
   
  By the way, that bid was crazy. I ended up paying $81 and change for it after shipping charges and my bid registered three seconds after the last bidder and one second before it closed.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I want to sell my creative extigy. Where would that go in the for sale part here? Which thread?


----------



## IronSnake

Wanting chicolom's setup, I ended up hunting down a 32" Sammy instead of his 40" (smaller so my eyeball won't burn), same model series, TS01 panel at Best Buy on clearance for $379.99.  For those who want a 40", Costco has them with TS02 panel for a bit over $500.  Costco also has the Sylvania Mosaic Flexible Light strip that look identical to the ones he has, but only at $29.99 for four 2-feet strips.  I swear, even the remote is identical in color and button layout to his.  I'm installing it on a 55" Vizio so I ended up getting an additional two 2-feet extension kit on Amazon for $16.99.  I'm going to get another kit from Costco just for the 32" Sammy.
   
   


Spoiler: chicolom's%20post



 

 Quote: 





chicolom said:


> naingolann said:
> 
> 
> > What do you guys use for backlighting? I just can't find anything worthy. I tried those ikea strips once, but they died pretty fast. Not to mention it was a PITA removing them from the TV/monitor...
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Wanting chicolom's setup, I ended up hunting down a 32" Sammy instead of his 40" (smaller so my eyeball won't burn), same model series, TS01 panel at Best Buy on clearance for $379.99.  For those who want a 40", Costco has them with TS02 panel for a bit over $500.  Costco also has the Sylvania Mosaic Flexible Light strip that look identical to the ones he has, but only at $29.99 for four 2-feet strips.  I swear, even the remote is identical in color and button layout to his.  I'm installing it on a 55" Vizio so I ended up getting an additional two 2-feet extension kit on Amazon for $16.99.  I'm going to get another kit from Costco just for the 32" Sammy.


 
   
  Nice.
   
  Have you been eyeing my posts on AVS forum?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Good find on that "Sylvania Mosaic Flexible Light strip".  That looks pretty similar to the one I've got.  I'll have to bookmark that in case I need more.  I'm not seeing it for less than $40 online though, so maybe it's only $29 at the store.


----------



## IronSnake

chicolom said:


> ironsnake said:
> 
> 
> > Wanting chicolom's setup, I ended up hunting down a 32" Sammy instead of his 40" (smaller so my eyeball won't burn), same model series, TS01 panel at Best Buy on clearance for $379.99.  For those who want a 40", Costco has them with TS02 panel for a bit over $500.  Costco also has the Sylvania Mosaic Flexible Light strip that look identical to the ones he has, but only at $29.99 for four 2-feet strips.  I swear, even the remote is identical in color and button layout to his.  I'm installing it on a 55" Vizio so I ended up getting an additional two 2-feet extension kit on Amazon for $16.99.  I'm going to get another kit from Costco just for the 32" Sammy.
> ...




Yeah I have and they've been very helpful thank you very much. I've only seen it in store. It will sell out soon in my area because I'm gonna go buy it all and put it behind all my monitors and TVs at my place and my folks, muhahaha


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ironsnake said:


> Yeah I have and they've been very helpful thank you very much. I've only seen it in store. It will sell out soon in my area because I'm gonna go buy it all and put it behind all my monitors and TVs at my place and my folks, muhahaha


----------



## catspaw

Why do they have to make this stuff so expensive?! Id love to get the HD800, the stax 009, the HE-6, the LCDs - 3, hell even the HD 700.
   
  Worst Part... i want all of them .
   
  When i joined this site i thought "Sorry about my wallet? maybe once" But this damn thing is a Drug!
  Right now im thinking i should sell the HE-400 Asap and try to get the Auden LCD 3.... or the HE-6... Damn.
   
  Whatever, my next buy goes to Visuals or a PC.... need tog et away from this site for a year or so...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Compass 2 tracking says its here for delivery.... gah, the wait!


----------



## Vader2k

I feel your pain in relation to my Annies.  They arrived in town last friday night around midnight, but since they're getting delivered to my work, I've had to wait all weekend to get them.  Finally they're out for delivery today!


----------



## Vader2k

Yay, my Annies just arrived!  I can't wait to use them tonight.
   
  I gotta say, though Mad; even though you obviously sold me on them with your early impressions, I'm still eager to read your final review.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I want to sell my creative extigy. Where would that go in the for sale part here? Which thread?


 
   
  Source Components For Sale/Trade.
   
  That's where all sound cards and DACs go, along with portable devices. I've seen smartphones, gaming handhelds, and even full-blown laptops sold there.
   
  In other news, speaking of buying things:
   
  -That keyboard case I ordered for my Galaxy S III finally arrived. However, in practice, I find it to be a bit kludgy if you're trying to use it in a handheld fashion because it's just a flap of pleather that hinges the actual case part and the flap that the keyboard itself rests on, meaning it's kind of wobbly. A slide-out design would've worked better, preferably portrait orientation as that's how I use it most of the time and blocking off the camera and speakerphone without compromising keyboard space would be significantly less of an issue.
   
  It is significantly more practical as a laptop orientation stand, however; the case can prop up the GS3 itself, and since the keyboard's Bluetooth, it's wireless. Sticks on with velcro, so you can take it off and plop it on with ease without having to worry about it not getting a good grip.
   
  Also, typing on a thumbboard of this size is a hell of a lot nicer than putting up with on-screen keyboards, and I don't lose valuable screen space.
   
  -I pulled the trigger on that video capture card I was talking about earlier. Can't wait to see first-hand how it does my numerous consoles justice...


----------



## Sniperoidz

Has anyone gotten their hands on 2013 a40s? They are supposedly an improvement over previous years. I'm wondering how they compare to the PC 360s, as the Sennheiser set seems to be aging a bit. And I'm not talking just the Mixamp; the headset itself is supposed to have been improved. Astro claims better acoustics. To quote directly from the website, "The new 2013 edition of the A40 Audio System combines an acoustically improved A40 Headset with our updated MixAmp™ Pro to bring you the next-gen audio experience."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, dude. 1st post. The last headphone I reviewed.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Yay, my Annies just arrived!  I can't wait to use them tonight.
> 
> I gotta say, though Mad; even though you obviously sold me on them with your early impressions, I'm still eager to read your final review.


 
   
  I am too.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Source Components For Sale/Trade.
> 
> That's where all sound cards and DACs go, along with portable devices. I've seen smartphones, gaming handhelds, and even full-blown laptops sold there.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh wow, thanks  Thanks for the info about the KB. Sounds great


----------



## Sniperoidz

I wasn't clear on whether you purchased the headset with the new Mixamp or just the Mixamp, since your review and the update note only mentioned the Mixamp being the 2013 edition, unless I missed something. Anyhow, thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The a40s were reviewed earlier, then the Mixamp. Both entries are there.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, just wanted to say that I bought from BestSeller21 on Amazon for the Annies, and I picked the slowest/free shipping. 3-5business days it said. Well, he/she is located in NY, and I have to sign for it, but get this, it's being shipped Fedex2day. O.o Wow. How nice!  I get them Wednesday then. Good thing I'm off work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Compass 2 is at home. 

Dunno when I'll get home to set it up, but im just relieved, lol.

Astro told me I can keep the SLYR AND one of the Astros!


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My Compass 2 is at home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  But which Astro do you choooooooooooooooose? DUN DUN DUNNNNNN


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Definitely the A40s+Mixamp. That A50...meh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playing with the Compass 2. The Annie and HE-400 sound absolutely fabulous off it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Playing with the Compass 2. The Annie and HE-400 sound absolutely fabulous off it.


 
   
   
  LOL... that's too much amp for one desk.  Something's going to break/explode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> Lol well, the bottom is the SA-31, so it won't be here for long.
> 
> Dear god, how I've missed that lovely volume knob. I will never, EVER again go with digital buttons.
> 
> Actually, the Compass 2 is a little shorter in length, about 3-4 inches.


----------



## Impulse

Maybe, but it'll break/explode in awesome fashion!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That stack is sexier than any Schiit stack! And it looks like it would turn into a Decepticon! :veryevil:

Wow, now I'm blindly trying to adjust the volume by touching digital buttons... looks like I'm gonna have to get used to having a volume knob again. When I had the NFB5, the volume knob was placed on the right side of the front face. The Compass 2 has it directly in the center. Oh Audio-GD, you are confusing me with adjusting the volume after having owned 3 amps from you guys!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That stack is sexier than any Schiit stack!


 
   
  Everyone knows Audio GD makes the sleekest sexiest amps. 
   
  Their amps are almost as sexy as their website.
   
  Almost.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahahah. That's a low blow! But yes, that website needs a serious overhaul... as well as a fluent english webmaster. 

Having messed with the USB input, Optical, as well as using the ODAC to the Compass 2's line (and Compass 2's dac into the SA-31), I can easily say the Compass 2 sounds just as good to me as any combination using the ODAC or SA-31. I could swear it sounds even better because there are no external cables between the DAC and amp in the Compass 2.

The HE-400 sounds REALLY, really good off it right now. Of course, so does the Annie, but I'm focusing on the HE-400 atm.


----------



## Sleinzel

As stated somewhere back in this thread, I bought a Q701 and a HD598.
   
  Hd598 went back to amazon, the Q701 just blew it away.
   
  I bought a HD650 for movies and for a little bit more bass. The Q701 eats it in terms of gaming. But I like the HD650 more. The Q701 starts hurting after 4 to 5 hours because of the bumpers. A simple readjustment helps for me.
   
  My Soundcard, the Xonar Essence ST, does a good job. Of course its not a 2000$ amp, but I think its still capable of driving both headphones pretty well.


----------



## gl0ry

I ended up buying the A40s + mixamp.  The mixamp definitely has some issues at the moment primarily microphone related.
   
  As far as audio goes they work perfectly fine.  Compared to the Sennheiser PC360's they definitely lack some clarity, but they have better bass response.  With the mixamp and features, I feel like the Astro package is a better value.  The sound quality is definitely comparable.
   
  The Sennheisers microphone blows it out of the water though, but I don't know if anyone cares about that.


----------



## catspaw

That looks expensive... (compass 2).


----------



## calpis

I have knob envy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds wrong on so many levels...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here is what people need to realize about the K702 Anniversary:

The biggest change going from the older AKGs to the Annies is the addition of bass. If your music taste doesn't have a lot of importance towards bass, you may feel the Annie is too similar to the older non-Annies.

However, play some EDM and hip hop on the Annie and compare to the older ones. I GUARANTEE the difference will obvious.

So, if you are one that wished for more bass, better comfort (as in a ginormous leap in comfort), and warmer tone, the Annie will not disappoint. Yes, it is still a K702/Q701, and listening to certain genres will make them sound more similar than different.

Give them their chance, and use them for things that favor the low end.

I am betting that those people who say they sound basically the same as the non-Annies is because they listen to stuff that takes little importance in bass, like Classical.

What the K702 Annie has done is make them a complete all-rounder, and not a specialist. It does everything well, as opposed to certain genres well, like the Q701/K701, etc.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> LOL... that's too much amp for one desk.  Something's going to break/explode.


 
   
  Now imagine if he had the rare SRM-T2 or BHSE...those things look pretty huge going by the pics, and even have separate power supply blocks!
   
  Also seconding MLE on the convenience of a proper volume knob, since I can tell at a glance what the volume setting actually is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now that I've packed up the SA-31, and the fact the Compass 2 isn't as 'deep' as the SA-31, it doesn't take up as much space.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

mad lust envy said:


> Here is what people need to realize about the K702 Anniversary:
> 
> The biggest change going from the older AKGs to the Annies is the addition of bass. If your music taste doesn't have a lot of importance towards bass, you may feel the Annie is too similar to the older non-Annies.
> 
> ...





Even if it is just more comfortable, I would say it is worth it. The annies will be my "hardcore gaming" cans.

I still yearn for a second pair with more bass and transparency for fun. The he-400 looks promising. The x1 looks promising as well. Either way I'll have a couple of months to decide since I need to start paying my debts.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Also seconding MLE on the convenience of a proper volume knob, since I can tell at a glance what the volume setting actually is.


 
   
  Knobs are nice.  :3
   
  The only problem I have with the M-stage knob is that I can barely see where the volume is at in the dark.  The little red dot on the black knob is too hard to see.  I need to mod it somehow...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tend to just lower it to near the beginning if I can't see where the notch is. That's the benefit of knobs for me. The digital buttons took an eternity to set on the SA-31.


----------



## Sniperoidz

Well, damn. Now I'm torn between the Q701 and the PC360. The anniversaries are tempting, but I can't see myself spending $400 on a set just to game with. Maybe if I listened to music more often. But I feel they would be wasted on Halo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 is a pretty huge boost in SQ over the PC360, though for the purpose of gaming, the PC360 makes more sense, as it's easy to drive, and has a built in mic.


----------



## Zack117

Does the MixAmp (2011 and 2013) work with voice chat via USB on the PC like with skype, while receiving sound from a digital optical source like the xbox360 at the same time? I remember, the Tritton AX Pro, can handle that very good, but I sold it, cause I'm looking for an more audiophile equipment for all purposes (movies, gaming (no competitive) and music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. USB chat is the biggest change from pre-2011 Mixamps.


----------



## Zack117

Thanks, that's good to know. btw, panty & stockings is great. I'm watching it atm, really entertaining, amusing and soundtracks are also great!
   
  I still got to test some headphones, but in the end, I guess I'll get DT 880 or 990s both 250 Ohm and "Edition" with a FiiO E9 and MixAmp. From what I heard, this setup should work decent with gaming, movies and music. Not going for competetitive gaming anymore, after MW3 and BO2. They're still good games, but just not as satysfying as CoD 4 <3 and MW2 was. Single- and Coop-gamimg seems to make more and more fun to me anyway.
   
  However, I was shocked when looking for the DT880 and the FiiO E9 at amazon.com
  for example the FiiO E9 here in germany are 120€, I repeat EUROS and in the states they're 88$. I mean, that's  ridculous., it's just the like half of it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd go for the E9K/E09K. Seriously. I think it's better than the E9.

Hell yeah, Panty & Stocking. Like Powerpuff Girls for adults. Lol.
*
Chico, Calpis, Evs, Nameless. I need your addresses.*

PM me. This is for the HE-400 first. I will send it out according to whos's closest. That way we can go down the line. I will be bundling in the ODAC which is for Calpis, but I guess you guys can try it out too... 

Calpis, make sure you have a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the ODAC: (I bought this one)... I have no idea which USB belongs to the ODAC, so I'll just send you one of mine, unless you don't need one.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Stereo-Design-accommodates-SmartPhones/dp/B004YEBK66/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358285710&sr=8-1&keywords=3%2C5+to+rca

Can't give mine to you, as I'm gonna use it for the Mixamp to the Compass 2.

I actually don't feel like selling the HE-400 atm. I'm LOOOOVING them for music. I do like them more than the Annies for music, but that's mainly because my main genres are bass heavy, and the HE-400's bass is special.


----------



## Zack117

*Do you mean the E(0)9k sounds better in terms of SQ?* New, they're just 17€ more expensive, than the E9 and if you tell me, that it does, I'll buy them. Another question, do you think, the presets of the 2013 MixAmp can compensate some things, for example a lack of bass, or if the headphones are too harsh?
   
  Harsh is a topic to me now, as yesterday, when I tried 990 Pros and my buddy suddenly plugged his iPhone to them and played this awesome daft punk e guitar solo. I listened to it for like 30 sec and then suddenly almost got a nausea and had to take em off. It sounded that shrilly. That was actually the first time I had a pair of high class headphones on my head. The FLAC tracks on my CD sounded great anyway, I just had to get a break for some minutes, due to this slight sick feeling in my stomack.
   
*And how performes the MixAmp  if it comes to music*, for example out of the PC? I assume that you have to turn the Dolby Headphone off for this. Thing is, I listen to almost every kind of music, orchestral soundtracks (LotR <3), Rock/Metal and Electronic.
   
  Just calculated my desired setup. Damn, this all will cost me about 450-500€. I'll look out for some used, cheaper stuff. I hope it'll be worth this money, as I intend to go with it for years.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I found the E9K to sound cleaner than the E9. Though I did own a first gen E9. Maybe they improved it later. The RCA inputs are more sturdy and less prone to breaking than the E9's 3.5mm inputs. The E9K is just more functional. I REALLY liked the sound coming off it. The volume knob was also dead silent. The E9 had a noisy volume knob. Mine anyways.

If you plan on using this with a PC, I do hope you have a dac to paiur up with the E9K. What do you plan on hooking it up to asides from the Mixamp?

Hmm, if you don't like that screechy treble, the DT990s may not be for you. It's not as jarring as the Pro 900, but it does get up there.

Don't use the Mixamp for music. It's hissy. Not worth it.

The Mixamp 2013 is quite warm. The flat preset (top right) sounds a little more bassy than my Mixamp 5.8. The presets like the Media preset adds bass and mids, and makes treble less jarring. It may pair up well with the 990s. Sadly, I didn't have the DT990 on hand to test this.

*BTW, anyone here with the 2011 Mixamp? Willing to trade the 5.8 for it, though you'd have to pay me shipping. I think it's fair as the 5.8 is a very rare commodity, and more expensive. Plus, I bought the rechargeable battery pack.*


----------



## Zack117

Thank you very much for the E09k recommendation. I'll most likely get it. Because of my 10€ voucher for amazon which is going to expire in 3 days. I guess I'll buy it before deciding for a headphone (200-300 Ohm). I just want to make sure, to get a good potential out of it, not the very best, but still good.
   
  Hmm, at first I intended to use the Mixamp's DAC for music, but after you told me that... After all I've read I guess the best option sure will be to get also one of these portable FiiO's additionally to the E09k, but this may will cost too much for me. Maybe a new decent soundcard will do the job too, as I listen to music and watch movies only on my PC?
   
  EDIT: Just found a offer for a second hand Mixamp (2011). According to the seller, it is only some months old and it is still in a very good condition. Price is 99€. Note: At 31 January the 2013 will be available in my country for 130€, but 2011 is less hissy not to mention the wanting presets. Do you think 99€ are worth it? IMHO it is some bucks too expensive.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Hmm, at first I intended to use the Mixamp's DAC for music, but after you told me that... After all I've read I guess the best option sure will be to get also one of these portable FiiO's additionally to the E09k, but this may will cost too much for me. Maybe a new decent soundcard will do the job too, as I listen to music and watch movies only on my PC?


 
   
  Is it only on the PC you're looking to use it?
   
  If so (and you have a spare slot in the PC) then a soundcard would probably work out cheaper, sound heaps better (especially for music) and reduce the number of components.


----------



## Zack117

I already thought of a all-in-one solution just with a soundcard, as they are some good internal soundcards out there with optical input and analog output, Dolby Headphone, integrated amp for up to 600 Ohms and so on. The thing is that I only play on Xbox360, not on PC, and would make use of the optical input.
  Only problem is, that I couldn't find something usefull and convincing on the net for this all in one solution - I don't want to buy something that won't work properly. Bad sounding Xbox Live chat is not so important to me anymore, as I skype more and more, and besides of that: Next console generation is on the way anyway, and I'm almost sure, there won't be this awful "plug the headset in the controller" thing anymore. I mean this is the main reason for me to get this Mixamp, due to its Voice chat mix in function. Dolby Headphone is not that important to me, as I think that I'll get good enough sound with such HiFi Headphones in stereo.
  Besides that, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me, to let the PC always on, while playing on the console.


----------



## dennybrig

Hey Mad Lust Envy, first and foremost i would like to thank you for the time you have dedicated to answering the question of all the guys that have reached you. I think that most readers of your post think the same. 
   
But well i will add another question to the already superlong list and i hope you can answer me. 
   
Look i currently own the Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm version and im loving them (great sound reproduction and fidelity), the sound quality is extraordinaire.
   
I replaced my Wireless Astro A40 with the beyerdynamics BUT... I feel that i lost something.... I feel that i lost integration (i mean the chat functionality). I made the super bad decision of buying the Zalman clip on mic and i cannot even explain how much it sucks, it is so bad that when i speak through it, people says that i sound like im inside a fish tank. 
   
So my straight question is: Do you think that if i replace my Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm with the Astro A50 or the Razer Chimaera 5.1 headsets i will suffer a huge loss on the sound quality??? (i dont know if you have ever tried the Chimaera 5.1 from Razer but God i love the damn design of them) 
   
Another option i have is to spend another $300 dollars and sell my DT 880s in order to have, say, $550 dollars so, do you think that if i spend $550 dollars on another higher quality headset i can forget about integration because it just sound so good? (or, paraphrasing, do you think that a $550 dollars headphone sound twice as good as the DT 880s 600 Ohm Version?)
   
I have invested big time in a desktop computer for having the bast gaming experience money can buy and i dont want it to be different in the audio side (of course without considering ultra expensive headphones like Sennheiser HD 800 or Grados, i mean i just game on the damn thing)
   
Thanks for your time for reading this and have a great day
   
BTW i have tried to find any mod mic from Antlion but i have absolutely no luck in finding one for sale...


----------



## zepic132

Hi everyone,
   
MLE what would you suggest for 70% fun gaming and 30% comp. gaming and music, with a maximal price of 250-300$?
I already have a great mic so you may rule out the PC 360, my biggest issue would be the sound leak but the open cans have better performances. If you think that the D7000 is truely a beast, I will save up for it. Moreover does the D7000 have good bass I will most likely play BF3, COD(?), ARMA 2, RPGs.
Thanks for all,
-Zepic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

zepic132 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> MLE what would you suggest for 70% fun gaming and 30% comp. gaming and music, with a maximal price of 250-300$?
> I already have a great mic so you may rule out the PC 360, my biggest issue would be the sound leak but the open cans have better performances. If you think that the D7000 is truely a beast, I will save up for it. Moreover does the D7000 have good bass I will most likely play BF3, COD(?), ARMA 2, RPGs.
> ...





D7000 is rare and sells for like $800 used now. Good luck. Yes, the bass is my fave. Easily.

Dt990 250ohm is what I'd recommend.






dennybrig said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy, first and foremost i would like to thank you for the time you have dedicated to answering the question of all the guys that have reached you. I think that most readers of your post think the same.
> 
> 
> But well i will add another question to the already superlong list and i hope you can answer me.
> ...




Have you looked at the guide. I reviewed the A50. Its... not good.

I cant comment on headsets I have no heard, but the DT880 is an amazing headphone, and I doubt headsets will compare. Maybe the MMX300.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





dennybrig said:


> Look i currently own the Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm version and im loving them
> 
> I feel that i lost something.... I feel that i lost integration (i mean the chat functionality). I made the super bad decision of buying the Zalman clip on mic and i cannot even explain how much it sucks, it is so bad that when i speak through it, people says that i sound like im inside a fish tank.


 
  I'd try another "cheap" clip on mic and see if that sounds better. Some love the Zalman, some hate it. Maybe a cheap usb desktop mic?
   
  What soundcard are you plugged into?  There maybe some settings that can be tweaked on the mic side.Try the mic through the onboard sound (if it has it) instead of the soundcard and see if it's any better?
   
  edit: looks like the modmic's are starting to get their production sorted http://www.modmic.com/ Should be able to order from them (or wait for the new version with mute)


----------



## dennybrig

I have the ASUS XONAR PHOEBUS soundcard....
  i will research today how many options does the Mic has...
  but trust me it sucks...
  i usually hear awesomelly the guys with Chimaeras and Astros but i sound like inside a fish tank


----------



## dennybrig

You´re damn right about the DT 880 no complains at all, it is awesome..
  but i think i will go for the MMX..
  i can only imagine it sounds pretty much the same as the DT 880s?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That sounds wrong on so many levels...


 





   
  Like Chico said, the mstage knob is not great, Its diameter is also pretty small and the shaft is smooth making it hard to grip and hard to tell if you actually gave it a good turn.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd go for the E9K/E09K. Seriously. I think it's better than the E9.
> 
> Hell yeah, Panty & Stocking. Like Powerpuff Girls for adults. Lol.
> 
> ...


 
  K, sending PM now. And yeah, don't worry about the cables, I have an obscene amount of cables and even if I recycle half of them I'd still have a box full of misc cables. Although I am thinking about buying some better made and short cables to clean up the clutter on my desk. I can be last on the list so everyone will be able to listen to the odac


----------



## Zack117

@Mad Lust Envy & raband: I really don't want to bother you guys, but just for the case, you missed my two posts on the previous page:
   
  to Mad Lust Envy:
  Quote: 





> Thank you very much for the E09k recommendation. I'll most likely get it. Because of my 10€ voucher for amazon which is going to expire in 3 days. I guess I'll buy it before deciding for a headphone (200-300 Ohm). I just want to make sure, to get a good potential out of it, not the very best, but still good.
> 
> Hmm, at first I intended to use the Mixamp's DAC for music, but after you told me that... After all I've read I guess the best option sure will be to get also one of these portable FiiO's additionally to the E09k, but this may will cost too much for me. Maybe a new decent soundcard will do the job too, as I listen to music and watch movies only on my PC?
> 
> EDIT: Just found a offer for a second hand Mixamp (2011). According to the seller, it is only some months old and it is still in a very good condition. Price is 99€. Note: At 31 January the 2013 will be available in my country for 130€, but 2011 is less hissy not to mention the wanting presets. Do you think 99€ are worth it? IMHO it is some bucks too expensive.


 
   
  to raband:
  Quote: 





> I already thought of a all-in-one solution just with a soundcard, as they are some good internal soundcards out there with optical input and analog output, Dolby Headphone, integrated amp for up to 600 Ohms and so on. The thing is that I only play on Xbox360, not on PC, and would make use of the optical input.
> Only problem is, that I couldn't find something usefull and convincing on the net for this all in one solution - I don't want to buy something that won't work properly. Bad sounding Xbox Live chat is not so important to me anymore, as I skype more and more, and besides of that: Next console generation is on the way anyway, and I'm almost sure, there won't be this awful "plug the headset in the controller" thing anymore. I mean this is one of the main reasons for me to get this Mixamp, due to its Voice chat mix in function.
> Besides that, it wouldn't be much of a problem for me, to let the PC always on, while playing on the console.


 
   
  (I know it's hard to keep up with all those requests, but after 5 days of researching I'd really like to get a defined setup in my head. anyway, I'm going to bed now, see (write) you hopefully tomorrow)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, I'd get the Mixamp 2011 edition. That's what I want, but I don't wanna buy it, I wanna trade my 5.8 for it. Its worth it.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy & raband: I really don't want to bother you guys, but just for the case, you missed my two posts on the previous page:


 
   
  The mixamp is the best bet for the console as you said. Get that setup with some easy to drive (but decent) headphones and worry about the PC sound later. Depending on the existing sound/motherboard you may find you're happy with it as is.


----------



## Impulse

dennybrig said:


> You´re damn right about the DT 880 no complains at all, it is awesome..
> but i think i will go for the MMX..
> i can only imagine it sounds pretty much the same as the DT 880s?




Isn't the MMX 300 closed and more akin to the DT 770? I'd just get another cheap mic and wait it out for the Modmic if that one sucks... I love my DT 880 & Modmic tho so I might be slightly biased. 

I'm glad Antlion isn't cutting quality control to get mics out there, they make a nice little product, the setbacks they've had just suck.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Here is what people need to realize about the K702 Anniversary:
> 
> The biggest change going from the older AKGs to the Annies is the addition of bass. If your music taste doesn't have a lot of importance towards bass, you may feel the Annie is too similar to the older non-Annies.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Glad you posted this. I already knew this, but it does address all the other people well. That addition of bass was very important to me as I listen to a lot of hip-hop/electronic music. I listen to everything, but I do love bass, although not a basshead. I'm just so glad there is a noticeable difference, even when the pads are swapped. The comfort issue was big with me too. It did take them awhile to release these, but for me, it couldn't have been timed better. Usually companies always leave a flaw, but they've really just taken care of everything.  Cannot wait. I get these tomorrow.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Isn't the MMX 300 closed and more akin to the DT 770? I'd just get another cheap mic and wait it out for the Modmic if that one sucks... I love my DT 880 & Modmic tho so I might be slightly biased.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  To the best of my knowledge, the Beyer MMX 300 is a Beyer DT770 32-Ohm headphone with a mic add-on.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Even if it is just more comfortable, I would say it is worth it. The annies will be my "hardcore gaming" cans.
> 
> I still yearn for a second pair with more bass and transparency for fun. The he-400 looks promising. The x1 looks promising as well. Either way I'll have a couple of months to decide since I need to start paying my debts.


 
  Man, comfort is not worth $200-300, lol. I'll be getting another pair as well. Interested in that X1.
  Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Does the MixAmp (2011 and 2013) work with voice chat via USB on the PC like with skype, while receiving sound from a digital optical source like the xbox360 at the same time? I remember, the Tritton AX Pro, can handle that very good, but I sold it, cause I'm looking for an more audiophile equipment for all purposes (movies, gaming (no competitive) and music.


 
  That was a good question. Thanks Mad. Glad to know it can be used with Skype. I use that a lot. I've never even heard of that show. I liked the PowderPuff girls as a kid, lol.


----------



## jazh23

Hi to everyone, I will buy a pair of headphones for gaming and I want to know which one choose among these??
   
  -Panasonic RP-HTF600-S
  -Monoprice MHP-839
   
  Maybe if I save more money:
  -Samsong SR850
  -Creative Aurvana Live.
   
  I'm looking for, comfort, good sound and reliability..
   
  In advance, thanks...


----------



## Impulse

CAL and SR850 are pretty different sound-signature wise... The JVC HA-RX700 are another a good budget alternative for semi closed fun sounding headphones for gaming (not as refined as the CAL, better built tho). If you're more into competitive stuff and looking for that extra edge from positional cues you're better off with the Samson tho. CAL's priced higher than either but they're still a strong value at under $100. Haven't heard the Panasonic.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





jazh23 said:


> Hi to everyone, I will buy a pair of headphones for gaming and I want to know which one choose among these??
> 
> -Panasonic RP-HTF600-S
> -Monoprice MHP-839
> ...


 

 I got the Samson's delivered to the door (2 pack) for <$60 in Australia. Got a set of velour pads for them off ebay as well (order was for the equivelent Superlux model)
   
  They sound absolutely awesome for the price and are very well reviewed (often comparable to $200 headphones)
   
  I think it worked out about $35 a set with the velour pads (and this is imported into Australia - I think the cans were $10 plus $30 in postage)
   
  Funny you should be asking about them - I was just thinking of trying to work out a way to get a set to MLE to try out. I think they definitely deserve a review and would love to hear what he thinks of them. They bat well above their weight.


----------



## chicolom

Just found my old parts express headband under a pile of misc cables.  
  I thought I'd try it out on my KSC35s...
   
  Surprisingly, it actually works much better with the KSC35s than it ever did with the KSC75s. 
   
   
  The KSC75s are a little too fat, and so they just snap in and the drivers become stiff and don't wiggle at all.  The way the KSC75 looks below is the way you get it.  The plastic is hitting and it doesn't rotate at all.  I quickly gave up on heaband + KSC75 because the drivers just pushed against your ear flat and didn't angle at all to conform to your ear, which made them pretty uncomfortable.
   
  The KSC35s are slimmer though, so they have enough room to rotate around freely and conform to the angle of your ear.  You can see in the pics there is room for some nice rotation 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
I'm not sure how the sound differs from the clips, probably not very much at all.  The pressure is about the same, perhaps _slightly _more...so _slightly _warmer/bassier.  Not quite sure yet.  It's hard to A-B compare...
  There is more room to position the drivers on the ear then with the clip-ons though.  You can move them to be more centered and aimed into your ear with the headband.  _Could _make the sound fuller....
   
  EDIT: Yes, the sound is fuller > http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-11-13-lcd2-entry-updated/10845#post_9061787
   
  Comfort is _VERY_ good with the headband, perhaps even better than the clips since it essentially feels identical but without the clip pressure on the outer ear.  Could be a very nice alternative to people who don't like KSC clips but still want the great sound for dollar.
   
   
_Hmmm_.  I also just realized this would be really good for listening to the KSC35 while laying down/in bed.  The clips sort of fall off and get loose when your laying horizontal b/c of gravity, but the parts express headband stays the same on your head no matter what your orientation is.  Plus there is the danger that you will roll over and bend one of the clips and have to deal with that, but no one cares what happens to the parts express heaband.


----------



## calpis

I just wish there was a more hair friendly headband out there than the parts-express one.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I just wish there was a more hair friendly headband out there than the parts-express one.


 
   
  Ya, technically that type of headband can "bite" your hair like the porta pros, but it's a non-issue for me.


----------



## Hailin

I got my Annies today. 
   
  Funny enough I prefer listening to music more on them then gaming as of right now vs my DT990pros. I am an immersion gamer though. They do sound fantastic off my E9K/E17 and also on the mixamp with E9K. I know I just have to get used to real bass not over tuned mid bass. Also getting to used to having mids again, the cut scenes in Halo4 take on a whole new level just hearing characters talk so clearly.
   
  Also vehicles in Forza Horizon sound more realistic now, instead of every car sounding like it had a giant pack of angry bassy honey bees growling at you. Which means on asphalt roads I can actually hear a car reaching its tire limit. Forza like other console racers still has the tire screech on dirt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If anyone says the AKGs Annies are light on bass. Just make them listen to F-Stop Blues by Jack Johnson and that will set the record straight.


----------



## tmaxx123

dennybrig said:


> You´re damn right about the DT 880 no complains at all, it is awesome..
> but i think i will go for the MMX..
> i can only imagine it sounds pretty much the same as the DT 880s?




I have the mmx's. You won't be disappointed... I love mine.


----------



## Impulse

They're don't sound pretty much the same as the DT 880 tho, quite the opposite...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Ya, technically that type of headband can "bite" your hair like the porta pros, but it's a non-issue for me.




Wth do you mean by bending the KSC35's clips? Those things are hella rigid. KsC75 and Yuin clips, yes. KsC35 clips? Not unless you literally try to. 

I need to get that headband. I have no real issue with the clips, but I'm still curious. Plus, I buzz my hair all the way down so... should be fine.


----------



## lubczyk

mad lust envy said:


> Now that I've packed up the SA-31, and the fact the Compass 2 isn't as 'deep' as the SA-31, it doesn't take up as much space.




That's an interesting setup. Wireless keyboard but wired mouse, huh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Actually just got that keyboard a few weeks ago that has a trackpad. The reason I'm still using the wired mouse is because my wireless mouse is acting up and constantly stuttering. Just been lazy getting another one. Also the keyboard being wireless was mostly begause I have my 65" on the opposite wall, and watch my TV shows off my PC on it. I dont wanna have to sit there and maneuver through episodes, etc. So I take the keyboard with me to the bed.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I tend to just lower it to near the beginning if I can't see where the notch is. That's the benefit of knobs for me. The digital buttons took an eternity to set on the SA-31.


 
   
  And that's just the thing I like about a typical volume knob. Absolute volume mapping.
   
  You can feel the ends on both extremes, and can generally tell exactly how loud your headphones will be at any given position, making quick adjustments nice and easy. No need to repeatedly mash buttons, just turn it to the exact point where you want it.
   
  Also, YGPM. Looking forward to the HE-400 audition!
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Man, comfort is not worth $200-300, lol.


 
   
  I'm not so sure about that...the best sound quality in the world means nothing if the headphones just aren't comfortable enough to wear for hours on end and practically make me forget I'm wearing headphones at all. Comfort is critical.
   
  On the flip side, paying $200-300 more for a more comfortable version of the same thing would be ridiculous. At least the K702 65th apparently has a refined enough audio presentation to try and warrant its price increase, along with the improved comfort.
   
  Also, there are plenty of affordable headphones that have great long-term comfort. The Audio-Technica AD series springs to mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, Nameless, no! I hate the AT wings and shallow pads!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Order for the HE400...

Nameless
Chicolom
Evs
Calpis

I'm missing someone, right? Better go check that post.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wth do you mean by bending the KSC35's clips? Those things are hella rigid. KsC75 and Yuin clips, yes. KsC35 clips? Not unless you literally try to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Oh right, I don't actually have the KSC35 clips, just the 75 ones.  So I meant those 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
   
  No reason not to try it.  I can recommend it for the KSC35/porta pro/sporta pro driver though, as it works nicely with it.  It might also work with the Yuins, but I'm not sure without seeing what the clip-on point looks like.
   
_I won't really recommend it for just the stock KSC75 driver though, b/c like I said it doesn't rotate and isn't very comfortable.  _
   
   
  I wonder if there is an even cheaper place to buy that generic mini headphone than parts express.  On Parts express I think you have to pay some shipping costs which cost twice as much than the actual headband.  I'll look around...
   
_Before you decide to order on any, let me know_ - because I might go in for an extra one or two and do a mini group-buy with you


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I take the keyboard with me to the bed.


 
   
  Sounds kinky


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Check Amazon, I saw it there... or maybe you meant there's. Count me in. Just put it in the box of goodies, assuming you get the headbands that soon. I'll paypal you the cost.

Okay, so looks like I got everyone for the HE400. Nameless, I'll pm you Chico's address, Chico sends to Evs, and Evs sends to Calpis. I assume everyone is ok with this, and the cost to ship to the next person. Also assume everyone is okay with 7 days to use them, so I should get them back in a month, unless I wanna sell, in which case Calpis holds onto it...

As for the Annie, that will be sent out once I get the HE400 back... maybe not immediately though, lol.

Probably send it out this Friday...since it's payday.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Check Amazon, I saw it there... or maybe you meant there's. Count me in. Just put it in the box of goodies, assuming you get the headbands that soon. I'll paypal you the cost.


 
   
   
  OK.  Yeah, they're on amazon, but they're way overpriced.
   
  I'll probably order 4 pairs off of parts express and then keep 2 and send you two, if that sounds good...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only need one, lol. Unless it's prone to breaking.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I only need one, lol. Unless it's prone to breaking.


 
   
  I don't know, I haven't used it long enough to find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




     I doubt you can hurt it much though.  It's just a metal band with two pieces of plastic on each end.
   
  Whatever happened to the Yuins?  Did you send them back?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, still waiting on my refund. I need to check the usps receipt... see if it even made it back.


----------



## calpis

When I ordered from parts-express, I ordered like 2 sets of headphones, a bunch of banana clips, and some heatshrink tubing to help alleviate the pain of the shipping cost. The headband itself needs a little force to get them attached to the 75's. I was worried that I was applying too much force when I attached them but they should be fine, I had the same headband on 3 different 75's.
   
  @MLE
  I'll send you out a logitech wireless mouse. I got it in an rma but I got another mouse a few weeks later and and got turned into a backup mouse. I have other backup mice now so that's just sitting around unused. It's the Logitech VX Revolution, let me know if you want it and I'll send it along with the he-400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As long as it has a good range and doesnt need line of sight, im down... though I would still use tbe built in trackpad on my keyboard when im away from the desk. Going wireless for a mouse is basically to eliminate cables, though it would remain at the desk.

What I want is wireless HDMI, optical, audio, etc, as long as quality remains 100% the same as wired. Come on technology!


----------



## calpis

Range is pretty good, I was scrolling from about 9ft away from the receiver.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool bro. Appreciate it. I got an offer for the ODAC for more, but I had to tell him it was spoken for.


----------



## calpis

/hearts


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Just found my old parts express headband under a pile of misc cables.
> I thought I'd try it out on my KSC35s...
> 
> I'm not sure how the sound differs from the clips, probably not very much at all.  The pressure is about the same, perhaps _slightly _more...so _slightly _warmer/bassier.  Not quite sure yet.  It's hard to A-B compare...
> There is more room to position the drivers on the ear then with the clip-ons though.  You can move them to be more centered and aimed into your ear with the headband.  _Could _make the sound fuller....


 
   
   
  OK, I tried some swapping and comparing between the KSC35 with the either the KSC75 clips, or the headband.  There are definitely some differences.
   
  To sum up:
   
With Headband:
   
  + Fuller mids
  + More body and impact to sound
  + Better balance between frequencies
  + Taller soundstage height, "bigger" sounding
   
With Clips:
   
  + Airer sound
  + More soundstage width
  + More separation between parts
   
   
  You can pretty much say the pros of one are the cons of the other.  
  The airiness part is sort of a grey area though, because the airiness is sort of tied to/comes at the expense of the mids.  The KSC35 is a bit grainy up top anyways, so I'm not sure I want to hear the "air" it has to offer all that much.  I'd rather hear some more mids instead.
   
   

 The mids are fuller with the headband, no question.  That's the first thing I notice when I swap.  There is more body to the mids and lower mids/upper bass with the headband.  When I put the clips back on the mids get sucked out some and it's more "V" shaped, and the highs sound more stranded off and isolated from the rest of the frequencies (which I think also makes the clips sound airier up top - as there are less mids next to the highs so they sound more highlighted, airey, and slightly more metallic).
   

 The balance sounds closer to a full sized headphone with the headband.
   

 With the headband on the soundstage sounds taller and the overall sound sounds "bigger."
   

 The clips are airier sounding (keep in mind what I said at the end of the first bullet point about the air).
   

 With the clips the soundstage has more width.  While the headband soundstage does sound taller, the width sounds more compressed as well.  Coming from the headband, it sounds like you squished the soundstage height and stretched the sound more to the sides instead, but perhaps stretched it too thinly (losing some mids and fullness).  That's pretty much to be expected, and you should be able to attribute that to the different position and distance from the ear with the clips. 
   

 There is also some more separation between parts with the clips.  I think a part of that has to do with the mids "getting out of the way" more with the clips, which can add separation to the sound but at the expense of sounding thinner.  The other part is related to the differences in soundstage width from the different physical positions of the drivers.
   

 I didn't test imaging, but I imagine it will probably do a little better with the clips and the extra room they give in the soundstage.
   
   
_Keep in mind this is with the KSC*75* clips. _ I'm assuming the differences between the KSC*35* clips and the headband will be smaller, since they're a little less distant than the KSC75 clips.
   
   
  So far, I prefer the sound with the headband.  It's a fuller more balanced sound, closer to a that of a full sized headphone.  I think the fuller mids and added body are worth the loss of some soundstage width and separation.  I mainly use the KSC35 for things where soundstage and imaging isn't critical anyways, like TV/movie watching.  When I need moar soundstage, I've got my full size headphones.
   
  Some of the shortcomings I've always had with the KSC75 and 35 (both with 75 clips mind you) were that the mids were too thin, the soundstage was to short (height), and the highs were too grainy/sibilant.  The headband helps alleviate those issues some, and IMO the pros outweigh the cons.
   
   
  > Most importantly, using the headband makes me miss the Q701's less than when I'm just using the '75 clips.


----------



## chicolom

I'm going to try doing some simple modding to the parts express headband to give even more room for the KSC35 drivers to rotate around. _  __(Hint: "Dremel tool")_


----------



## chicolom

My gameplan is hopefully get the K702/65 in about a month or two. 
   
  I wasn't planning on buying any new headphones for a while, so I spent some money in the Fall to upgrade some other gear that needed upgrading (TV, Camera, etc.)  Now that the K702/65 looks legit though, I've put it on my "to buy" list and am going to work towards getting it next.
   
  The Q701s have been "_my headphone_" ever since I got them, so I 'd kick myself if I didn't check out the K702/65, especially since it's limited.  AKG may decide to later bring the new changes to the other x70x headphones, but I don't want take that chance. I know headphone makers can be slow and stubborn to make any changes like that, so I'm not naive enough to expect it or wait for it.
   
  The Q701s are headphones that have a special place in my audiophile heart, so I don't want to just sell them off to fund the new hawtness. There probably isn't really a place for both a Q701 and K702/65 in the same home, but I still want to do a comparison between the Q701s and K702/65s first before I make a decision to keep or say goodbye to Q701.  That means some good old A-B action.  Going of the consensus of impressions coming in on the 65th, that comparison will probably read very similar to my "K702 vs Q701" comparison but with the descriptions of K702 and Q701 flipped and a "65th" added to the all the "K702"s, but I still want to do it.
   
*MLE*, if I _do _decide to sell the Q701, I could send them out to you for one last stop before I sell them - in case you want to hear them again, next to the anniversaries.


----------



## Mech0z

Since the PC 360 and HD598 get the same rating and same category, are they the same cans just with a mic on the PC 360?


----------



## Fulch36

Hey MLE, I'm a long time lurker of this thread and have had to return to get advice on replacing a failing set of PC360's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Originally I had my heart set on the HE-400's but now with you having got hold of the Annies I'm thinking along the same lines as seemingly everyone else in here and wanna get hold of them instead! 
   
  But the only thing that's stopping me is the Philips Fidelio X1's, now I know you haven't heard them but you've stated in the thread for them that you would consider giving up the HE-400 for them - what I wanna know is why? What are you hoping to get out of them over the 400's? The only comparison for them that has stuck in my mind is someone comparing them to the Q701 and saying that they added the bass the Q701 always lacked, which (rather annoyingly for me XD) is what most people seem to say about the Annie.  
   
  I'm in the UK so I can get hold of the X1's far more easily than I can the Annies, the HE-400's and the Annies would be about the same price and the X1's would be about 20% less.
   
  Any input would be appreciated, I'm leaning towards the Annies because I know what I'm getting (there are far more comparisons from others) but they are rapidly running out of stock at the two places I can get them from.


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





impulse said:


> CAL and SR850 are pretty different sound-signature wise... The JVC HA-RX700 are another a good budget alternative for semi closed fun sounding headphones for gaming (not as refined as the CAL, better built tho). If you're more into competitive stuff and looking for that extra edge from positional cues you're better off with the Samson tho. CAL's priced higher than either but they're still a strong value at under $100. Haven't heard the Panasonic.


 

 Thanks, i'll try to get the samson, btw amazon is selling the CAL and Samson to the same price $59.99...


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





raband said:


> I got the Samson's delivered to the door (2 pack) for <$60 in Australia. Got a set of velour pads for them off ebay as well (order was for the equivelent Superlux model)
> 
> They sound absolutely awesome for the price and are very well reviewed (often comparable to $200 headphones)
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thank you so much, I'll buy the Samson, do you have any recommendation of velour ear pads for them on amazon? I'm from Venezuela and I can only buy on that web page.

 I thought the Monoprice or panasonic were good choice, is more easy to find replacement ear pads for those models...
   
  I think maybe these can fit, but they are very expensive: http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-EDT990VB-Headphone-Pads-Black/dp/B008XEYT6G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1358352294&sr=8-4&keywords=velour+ear+pads


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> What I want is wireless HDMI, optical, audio, etc, as long as quality remains 100% the same as wired. Come on technology!




You could check out actiontec mywireless tv. I have several of them throughout the house sending feeds to various places and they do very well. Not sure the exact application you want wireless hdmi for, but they can found for ~$80 or less on ebay from time to time.

-Erik


----------



## TMRaven

Is there a wait-list for the K702AE yet?


----------



## Impulse

tmraven said:


> Is there a wait-list for the K702AE yet?




Huh? They're already on sale from various sources worldwide...



mech0z said:


> Since the PC 360 and HD598 get the same rating and same category, are they the same cans just with a mic on the PC 360?




My understanding is that they're built pretty much the same as either the 598 or the older 595. They might've been released before the 598 tho so I dunno if it's just in between design wise or whatever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I think he means my loaning them out to certain people.

Raven, I don't think I'd wanna add more people than I have, especially for the Annie.

My Annie wait list is the same, with the addition of Matt. I guess I can add you too, but instead of 7 days, you guy would get 4. I would start getting antsy being away from the Annies for so long. 

I'll consider it.

As for what I'm hoping for out of the X1 over the HE400, is similar warmth, with smoother treble, more comfort, while being bassy. 

Sort of like an HD650 with more bass.

I have a sneaking suspicion they'll be too similar to the Annie though.

Oh yes, I wanna clarify about the Annie's bass. When I say more present, I dont mean like it in a pure quantitive way. It's more filled out, you can say. Not that the mid bass is to the point of smothering detail. I feel like the bass was rounded out, and extended quite a bit more. There's simply more of it in the way that it fills out the sound properly.

 So dont think that of you're happy with the Q701's bass that the Annie will sound bloated or sloppy. The Annie still sounds like an AKG. The biggest difference was the added weight in the bass, and thickening of the sound overall. It does make it sound like a Q701/HD650 hybrid, with bass that is more rounded off than either.

I'd really need to hear the HD650 again to be 100 percent sure on the bass though.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





hailin said:


> I got my Annies today.
> 
> Funny enough I prefer listening to music more on them then gaming as of right now vs my DT990pros. I am an immersion gamer though. They do sound fantastic off my E9K/E17 and also on the mixamp with E9K. I know I just have to get used to real bass not over tuned mid bass. Also getting to used to having mids again, the cut scenes in Halo4 take on a whole new level just hearing characters talk so clearly.
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet! Thanks  I got mine in today as well (read response to Nameless below).
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'm not so sure about that...the best sound quality in the world means nothing if the headphones just aren't comfortable enough to wear for hours on end and practically make me forget I'm wearing headphones at all. Comfort is critical.
> 
> On the flip side, paying $200-300 more for a more comfortable version of the same thing would be ridiculous. At least the K702 65th apparently has a refined enough audio presentation to try and warrant its price increase, along with the improved comfort.
> 
> Also, there are plenty of affordable headphones that have great long-term comfort. The Audio-Technica AD series springs to mind.


 
  Yes it is ridiculous, and that is exactly what I was saying, lol. Exactly. It's also limited edition, lol. I got mine in today via Fedex at 10:30. I went back to sleep once I signed for them. I was up super late. I'll be auditioning them later today. I'm off for three days straight after tomorrow so don't stone me to death guys, lol.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Order for the HE400...
> 
> Nameless
> Chicolom
> ...


 

 I feel like I should be in that list for some reason, lol, but I'm "new", even though I don't feel like it. Btw, my number is 732.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As for what I'm hoping for out of the X1 over the HE400, is similar warmth, with smoother treble, more comfort, while being bassy.
> 
> Sort of like an HD650 with more bass.
> 
> ...


 
  That sounds awesome. Yeah, it sure does sound similar to the Annie. Good description


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm getting a ridiculous amount of questions via pm that can be answered here by others as well as myself. From now on, I won't be replying to those messages. It's too many, and all asking things answered on the guide. That flooding of pms is driving me crazy, lol. Of course, pms not pertaining to the guide are fine. h34r:


----------



## zepic132

Hi everyone,
Is the DT990 250ohm really worth it's price, I mean sound leaks ,isolation is not so great, for everydays life its not really helpfull and I was wondering what would be the closest closed sounding cans to the DT990, I have not so great audio experience and want to get something that would fit most of my needs,
-Zepic


----------



## TMRaven

That's ok, I'd only need like 1-2 days at most-- if I wanted to try it out in the first place, I'm still thinking about it.  I just want to hear an an open AKG, but if I've done my interpolating correctly, the LCD-2 should be what my end-game headphone should sound like.  Maybe if I don't like it for whatever reason, then I'd possibly consider trying out something else.


----------



## Impulse

zepic132 said:


> Hi everyone,
> Is the DT990 250ohm really worth it's price, I mean sound leaks ,isolation is not so great, for everydays life its not really helpfull and I was wondering what would be the closest closed sounding cans to the DT990, I have not so great audio experience and want to get something that would fit most of my needs,
> -Zepic




None of that is really specific to the DT 990 tho, just the nature of open headphones in general (which comprises most of the higher end models in this thread besides a few exceptions like the Denon D's, DT 770, etc.). Obviously if you can't use open headphones due to your environment then none of them are worth the money to you.


----------



## zepic132

What closed headphones for "fun" and a bit competetive gaming would you suggest then. Are the denons AH-D7000 or AH-D5000 good for these types of gaming? Is the bass immersive?
  -Zepic
   
  Quote: 





> None of that is really specific to the DT 990 tho, just the nature of open headphones in general (which comprises most of the higher end models in this thread besides a few exceptions like the Denon D's, DT 770, etc.). Obviously if you can't use open headphones due to your empowerment then none of them are worth the money to you.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm getting a ridiculous amount of questions via pm that can be answered here by others as well as myself. From now on, I won't be replying to those messages. It's too many, and all asking things answered on the guide. That flooding of pms is driving me crazy, lol. Of course, pms not pertaining to the guide are fine.


 
   
  That sucks.  You should put that anti-PM spamming message on the top of the OP somewhere.  Hopefully it can thin it out the PM storm some.


Spoiler: Message...



*No UNSOLICITED private messages asking about gaming headphones, please. Ask questions on the guide itself!*


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zepic132 said:


> What closed headphones for "fun" and a bit competetive gaming would you suggest then. Are the denons AH-D7000 or AH-D5000 good for these types of gaming? Is the bass immersive?
> -Zepic


 
   
  ...Yes


----------



## Impulse

zepic132 said:


> What closed headphones for "fun" and a bit competetive gaming would you suggest then. Are the denons AH-D7000 or AH-D5000 good for these types of gaming? Is the bass immersive?
> -Zepic




Meant to say environment in my last post, not empowerment, owned by phone auto correct. Those two would fit the bill but they're exceedingly harder to find for a good price since they're discontinued. I don't have a lot of experience with high end closed headphones so I dunno what else to recommend beyond some of the other ones mentioned in the OP.


----------



## AxelCloris

Might be a dumb decision in the end, but an Amazon 3rd party seller has the Philips Fidelio L1 (not X1) for sale right now at $149 so I picked up a pair to try out. Going to see how they are for gaming. I imagine not too great, being that they're quoted as having slightly muddy and loose bass. Still, I've been interested in them for a bit and seeing them drop $110 today makes it worth trying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Axel, you almost gave me a heart attack.


----------



## Impulse

Did you double check Amazon before even reading the end of the post?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Axel, you almost gave me a heart attack.


 
   
  And that's why I made sure to mention that it was not the X1  Believe me, if it was the X1, I'd probably have to clean my couch.


----------



## SoAmusing777

K702 Annies - First Impressions​   
  Background - Okay, I'm gonna come back and edit this post probably, but my initial impressions are here! I have a huge grin on my face right now!  So, I received these this morning at 10:30. What did I do? I went right back to sleep, lol. I was up too late. I've been busy all day. I finally got around to these. I took a shower so I could start out completely fresh. Of course the very first thing I did was inspect these.
   
  Visuals - Beautiful cans. I really love the design and colour. It's more stealth and laid back than the HEY LOOK AT MY LIME GREEN HEADPHONES. Lol. These are sexy indeed. Made in Austria. Gotta love that. Limited/Anniversary Edition adds to it all. The headband is just lovely and oh so much more comfortable. I really love the grey on this.
   
  Feel - Well, one of the first things I noticed was the pads. I can definitely tell they are different. They are a bit more firm than the Q's pads, but I love them. They are soft (not super soft) and contour to my head perfectly. Ear fits right inside just fine. After wearing it for a bit, still quite comfortable!
   
  Sound - Very first thing I did when turning on these was put on a song with bass emphasis. It's DEFINITELY there. I noticed it immediately. Then came the AKG sound that I was accustomed too. That's where the huge grin came from.  I totally understand when Mad said they make him want to listen to the music. I still think I'd like some more bass as far as quantity goes with a bit more immersion, but these seem true to the recording. Definitely satisfied now. I've not tried these for gaming yet, but I will. I'd like to play around with more songs that have bass emphasis to see what these are capable of. Stay tuned! Thanks again Mad! 
   
  Something I wanna add that may have a huge impact on the sound - I'm using an old Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit soundcard and nothing else, lol.


----------



## calpis

Made in Austria. You know the Austrians always makes good stuff.
   
  -Vince


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Made in Austria. You know the Austrians always makes good stuff.
> 
> -Vince


 
   
  No doubt. I should hook these up to my receiver. Probably get better sound.


----------



## calpis

It better be an Austrian receiver or it might blow up. You can't trust those Orientals.
   
  -Vince
   
   
   
   
   
  In case anyone doesn't realize it, I'm joking and I'm chinese. That makes it okay... right...?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> It better be an Austrian receiver or it might blow up. You can't trust those Orientals.
> 
> -Vince
> 
> ...


 

 Haha, totally okay. I have a Yamaha receiver. I hate I'm limited to 44khz MP3. I have the straight enhancer, but still, lol.


----------



## calpis

Oh damn, just realized that the Tone Control works on the headphone jack on my avr254. Probably worked on my avr247 too but never bothered to look for it because of the horrible menus. And it's playing 24/192 flac fiiiiiiiiiiine. Listening to the Dark Knight Rises soundtrack.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Oh damn, just realized that the Tone Control works on the headphone jack on my avr254. Probably worked on my avr247 too but never bothered to look for it because of the horrible menus. And it's playing 24/192 flac fiiiiiiiiiiine. Listening to the Dark Knight Rises soundtrack.


 
   
  Same with mine. Sweet though. I wish I had that high quality to listen to.  Nice soundtrack btw.


----------



## chicolom

Now I know where my M-stage volume knob is in the dark.
   
  I put a little soft foam bumper pad thing on it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I always wanted an M-Stage... true story.


----------



## chicolom

Show me someone who doesn't want an M-Stage, and I"ll show you a liar.


----------



## Hailin

chicolom said:


> Show me someone who doesn't want an M-Stage, and I"ll show you a liar.




Well now I want an M-Stage.  Actually if it was a clear upgrade to the E9K I would look seriously at that group buy.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm getting a ridiculous amount of questions via pm that can be answered here by others as well as myself. From now on, I won't be replying to those messages. It's too many, and all asking things answered on the guide. That flooding of pms is driving me crazy, lol. Of course, pms not pertaining to the guide are fine.


 
   
  I see I'm not the only one with that issue!
   
  People PM me with questions about what headphone and amp to get all the time. I mean, I can advise people when it comes to PC sound cards and stuff like that, but it's just not right for me to talk about all these popular headphones and amps that I've never had ears-on experience with, you know? That's why I'm especially grateful for the HE-400 and K702 65th audition opportunities.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Show me someone who doesn't want an M-Stage, and I"ll show you a liar.


 
   
  Except I don't want an M-Stage, and I'm not lying. Paradox?
   
  Of course, that's just because my particular headphone route already rules out conventional headphone amps like that. Maybe I'll change my mind if there's a dynamic or ortho out there I really want that would justify being powered by the M-Stage.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Except I don't want an M-Stage, and I'm not lying. Paradox?


 
   
  The worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.


----------



## CRUZMISL

Please forgive me if this has been covered in one of the other 700+ pages.
   
  System volume is on 100% and then controlling volume with the external amp.
   
  For best results, what volume should you set it too _within_ each game?
   
  Some games are VERY loud with the volume set to max, does lowering it affect the sound quality in any negative way?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I see I'm not the only one with that issue!
> 
> People PM me with questions about what headphone and amp to get all the time. I mean, I can advise people when it comes to PC sound cards and stuff like that, but it's just not right for me to talk about all these popular headphones and amps that I've never had ears-on experience with, you know? That's why I'm especially grateful for the HE-400 and K702 65th audition opportunities.
> 
> ...


 
  How sad it is to be internet famous, lol. I cannot believe all these years you've not heard a quality "normal" can.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.


 
  Ooohhh. Good one!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

cruzmisl said:


> Please forgive me if this has been covered in one of the other 700+ pages.
> 
> System volume is on 100% and then controlling volume with the external amp.
> 
> ...




I leave the in game volume levels at default. Not sure why anyone (with an amp) would ever tweak those, other than possibly lowering music or something.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cruzmisl said:


> For best results, what volume should you set it too _within_ each game?
> 
> Some games are VERY loud with the volume set to max, does lowering it affect the sound quality in any negative way?


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I leave the in game volume levels at default. Not sure why anyone (with an amp) would ever tweak those, other than possibly lowering music or something.


 
   
   
  If the volume is so loud that it's causing problems, you can lower it.
   
  For example, the mixamps with bass boost can clip the bass on some games unless you lower the signal by turning the in-game volume down.
   
  If the volume is so loud that you are in the early stage of the volume pot (knob) where the is channel imbalance, you could lower it to get out of there.
   
   
  Not sure if I've ever noticed amps clipping the input because the signal is too strong.  I've noticed the signal clipping digitally, which if it happens will be obvious regardless of whether another amp is used (it's clipping at the very source).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, didn't think of that. Not that I remember any game being too loud at default to the point of clipping.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, didn't think of that. Not that I remember any game being too loud at default to the point of clipping.


 
   
  I know on Gears of War 3 the brumaks are ridiculously loud and probably clip the sound at default settings.


----------



## CRUZMISL

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I leave the in game volume levels at default. Not sure why anyone (with an amp) would ever tweak those, other than possibly lowering music or something.


 
   
  Because I read that lowering the volume means removing information (sound quality) if run in 16bit mode.
   
  Hence advice is to have everything on MAX volume (iTunes, VLC etc) and control it with the external amp.
   
  My question was essentially if this is also best practice for games.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cruzmisl said:


> Because I read that lowering the volume means removing information (sound quality).
> 
> Hence advice is to have everything on MAX volume (iTunes, VLC etc) and control it with the external amp.
> 
> My question was essentially if this is also best practice for games.


 
   
  In music, people like to keep digital volume at 100% because technically if you lower it the bits get divided and you lose resolution. 
   
  But it's so subtle I'm not sure it's even audible.  For games this is especially true as the sound quality pretty low already, plus people on this thread are already running the audio through surround DSPs which further muck up the resolution. 
   
  Analog volume is more audible, and if you don't keep the analog signal strong you get more noise in the signal and will start to hear hiss.


----------



## SoAmusing777

My dude, these headphonessss. Just listened to LMAO's Shots on MOG at 320kbps. Golden man. Golden. I was grinning ear to ear.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> My dude, these headphonessss. Just listened to LMAO's Shots on MOG at 320kbps. Golden man. Golden. I was grinning ear to ear.


 
  haha those headphones are capable of reproducing more detailed songs then LMAO at 320 kbps! try some lossless music or uncompressed audio from a blu-ray. 
   
  glad ya like them tho!


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> haha those headphones are capable of reproducing more detailed songs then LMAO at 320 kbps! try some lossless music or uncompressed audio from a blu-ray.
> 
> glad ya like them tho!


 
   
  I know. I'd like to see some tests done if I can audibly discern the difference between this and totally lossless. That would be all fine and dandy, but I have no clue where to find music like that. I do love them. Something I totally forgot to mention about the Annies. On my Q's that I had, if I twisted them in different directions (each ear cup going in a different direction) it would make this tiny crack sound. The Annies don't do that. Reaaallyyy comfortable too. No need to adjust them. Loving it.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Virtual Surround Sound "Guide" - Need Help!​   
  Hey, do you really hear through walls with Dolby Headphone? Is it really unrealistic? I'm really hating the distortion/reverb (possibly echo too idk) with Silent Cinema.
   
  Here's all I know of as far as other options in virtual surround sound (I did this once before, but I'm doing it again anyway). If anyone knows of any more, please let me know.
   
  1. Dolby Headphone
  2. Silent Cinema - Quite reverby and distorts the sound a bit much for me
  3. Thx TruStudio - Can only use 5.1 DD and others have reported the mixamp being better
  4. CMSS-3D - N/A - See 8.
  5. Random Company's Surround Sound
  6. Sony's Implementation - It's very popular, and if it was the best, everyone would use it.
  7. MyEars - N/A - See 8. Plus I've heard it sounds crap.
  8. Sound Card - Won't work. It's been tested by BurritoBoy.
  9. Smyth Realizer - Just totally unrealistic and too expensive for me.
  10. DSS - Mixamp is a better version of this.
  11. DSS2 - No clue. It only simulates 4 speakers, and if I wanted chat, I'd have to get a Steelseries audio mixer which would introduce hiss on top of whatever the DSS2 is adding and lower overall SQ a little. I'd say other techs are better, plus, I just don't like TB, too mainstream.
   
  Leaving
   
  1. Dolby Headphone
  2. Random Company's Surround Sound
   
  I'd give up my current receiver to get a Harmon Kardon AVR with DH, unless anyone can guide me to some Random Company's Surround Sound that is any good?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sure as hell cant discern between 320 and lossless no matter how hard I try. Hell 192+ is fine. Anything less than 192 is when you start to hear sq loss, imho.

For the sake of space and versatility, I use 320kbps. My mp3 player wont support FLAC, and wav sounds off on it.


----------



## catspaw

I have a hard time seeing diffrences between 128 and lossless in some music generes.
   
  thou for rock i do want at least 320 .


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I sure as hell cant discern between 320 and lossless no matter how hard I try. Hell 192+ is fine. Anything less than 192 is when you start to hear sq loss, imho.
> 
> For the sake of space and versatility, I use 320kbps. My mp3 player wont support FLAC, and wav sounds off on it.


 
   
  You're up late. Please read above you will you? Need your help. That's exactly what I thought. I remember you telling me about that. Glad to hear this though.


----------



## raband

Alice in Chains - MTV Unplugged - Rooster - FLAC
   
  I thought I was happy until I put that song on - wow. Made all the money spent worth it.
   
  I used to use my MP3 of that song as my goto standard for listening. The FLAC just ripped me a third ear I'm sure.
   
   
  edit - sorry for this - I was responding to chat from the last page (hadn't realised the thread had moved on)


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> You're up late. Please read above you will you? Need your help. That's exactly what I thought. I remember you telling me about that. Glad to hear this though.


 
  Are you on PC or console?
   
  PC go for Titanium HD
   
  Console go mixamp.
   
  For gaming this is.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> but I have no clue where to find music like that.


 
  Not for LFMAO in particular, but a good source for good lossless. https://www.hdtracks.com
   
  edit: forgot the link


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> Alice in Chains - MTV Unplugged - Rooster - FLAC
> 
> I thought I was happy until I put that song on - wow. Made all the money spent worth it.
> 
> ...


 
  Who knows. I doubt I can tell a difference.
  Quote: 





raband said:


> Are you on PC or console?
> 
> PC go for Titanium HD
> 
> ...


 
  I'd go with a receiver that has Dolby Headphone. I'd like to use PCM.
  Quote: 





raband said:


> Not for LFMAO in particular, but a good source for good lossless. https://www.hdtracks.com
> 
> edit: forgot the link


 
   
  Nice website, but just short of a lot of artists I like.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





calpis said:


> My yamaha receiver is sitting in its box in the garage right now since I had switched over to a harman kardon over a year ago. The thing about the SC is that I couldn't really find a setting that I liked, it was either too much reverb and echo or too closed. I eventually had to get something new when I found out the receiver would flicker video on 1080p displays when I had upgraded to the slim xbox. The HK receiver only does DH2 which is my sweet spot so that's the main reason why I prefer DH over SC. My yamaha is a '09 or '10 model so it doesn't have all the dsp settings that newer or current models have.


 
   
  I know this is an extremely old post, but just was reading around. I wish I would have read this sooner, but, I think I still needed to audition this for myself, lol. Now I have to sell it. Those are basically my thoughts on it as well. I have the RX-A710. I'm only missing out on a few DSP modes, which wouldn't have even helped with gaming. I emailed them. It was a bunch of Hall DSP's basically.


----------



## kellte2

Question for Mixamp 2013 owners out there.  Understanding that the 2013 edition is "warmer" than the previous versions, is anyone out there getting distortion during peaks of high volume? 
   
  For example, in Black Ops 2, when any type of explosion takes place in my immediate vicinity, the Mixamp seems to produce distortion on the low-end.  I'm running my Mixamp at 100% volume through an E09k to my DT 990 (600 ohm).  I also have the EQ set on "Core."  Master volume on the game and the dashboard is maxed and I control the volume through the E09k.
   
  Maybe I have the volume of the mixamp or the dashboard set too high or maybe it is the product of the 990s living up to their "boomy" nature.  Just wanted to see if anyone has heard this on the 2013 Mixamp, or if anyone had any suggestions to avoid the distortion.


----------



## Zack117

I know that the threadstarter doesn't support stereo topics, but maybe some other people could give me some good advice about this. In the end I decided to not to go with a Mixamp and buy myself a pair of the DT 880 Premium 600 Ohm. Now I need a amp/DAC. After Mad's recommendation a FiiO E09k + E17 combo should performe good. This combo is available for 250€ on german amazon. But some people already told me, that the E17 itself is already good enough to drive 600 Ohm headphones such as the DT 880. It'll be for desktop purpose only. What do you think, folks?
   
  Another question: A week ago I ordered myself some DX min-clipon Microphones, as I thought I'd go with the mixamp. Do you think the mic will work with a 3,5mm to 2,5mm adapter to the xbox gamepad?


----------



## mgdunaway

kellte2 said:


> Question for Mixamp 2013 owners out there.  Understanding that the 2013 edition is "warmer" than the previous versions, is anyone out there getting distortion during peaks of high volume?
> 
> For example, in Black Ops 2, when any type of explosion takes place in my immediate vicinity, the Mixamp seems to produce distortion on the low-end.  I'm running my Mixamp at 100% volume through an E09k to my DT 990 (600 ohm).  I also have the EQ set on "Core."  Master volume on the game and the dashboard is maxed and I control the volume through the E09k.
> 
> Maybe I have the volume of the mixamp or the dashboard set too high or maybe it is the product of the 990s living up to their "boomy" nature.  Just wanted to see if anyone has heard this on the 2013 Mixamp, or if anyone had any suggestions to avoid the distortion.



 
 I have the 2013 Mixamp paired with my XBox 360, Samson SR850's, and an LVA 7330 Mic. I usually have my master volume knob on the Mixamp at about 11 o'clock or noon, if I really want my ears to pound I will turn it to 1 o'clock. The SR850's are very easy to drive so I do not have any external amp. But even at the loudest sound that I can stand, I do not hear any distortion. FYI, the SR850's are AWESOME budget gaming headphones. SR850>>>>>>Razer Carcharias>>>TB PX 21's


----------



## mgdunaway




----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> How sad it is to be internet famous, lol. I cannot believe all these years you've not heard a quality "normal" can.


 
   
  Well, I have heard the AD700...and the HTF600...and the CitiScape Uptown...and a vintage Sansui SS-20. That's about it for "normal" cans. No Sennheisers, Beyerdynamics, AKGs, Denons, or Ultrasones to be found there. You know, the kind of headphones people talk about all the time. Rarely does anyone talk about Stax unless it's the flagship Omega-series models.
   
  I just happened to be in a circumstance where instead of stepping up to AD900s or DT880s like I was originally thinking, I suddenly saw this Stax Lambda setup at a price I could afford, recalled the people in a PC gaming thread praising it for its gaming prowess, and the rest is history. Haven't really felt the need to buy more headphones since, other than sheer curiosity. Curiosity that often left me disappointed, at that.
   
  Most people jump into electrostatics very late in their headphone journey, if they choose to do so at all. I did so very early, and that means I don't have any common frames of reference to compare to the Stax setups I've heard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7ojmAQS1s&feature=share


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I know this is an extremely old post, but just was reading around. I wish I would have read this sooner, but, I think I still needed to audition this for myself, lol. Now I have to sell it. Those are basically my thoughts on it as well. I have the RX-A710. I'm only missing out on a few DSP modes, which wouldn't have even helped with gaming. I emailed them. It was a bunch of Hall DSP's basically.


 
   
  If you really want to audition them then you really just need to try a DH device like a mixamp or tb dss. What you'll get out of the receiver will be better tone controls, absolutely dark noise floor and more power then out of just a mixamp or dss. I recommend the H&K avr-254 or if you have more money to spend then get a Marantz (their lower end receivers don't have DH iirc). I do have a couple issues with the 254 so I have to see if there's a firmware update for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.

In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.

Which one do you have?


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.
> 
> In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.
> 
> Which one do you have?




The SR5001/2 is awesome mle. The slyr's mixer adds some wierd noise, I got a Sennheiser x320 on ebay, modded it, and I use it to mix the audio.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have a problemn with the SLYR's mixer. And I chat almost never anyways, lol. Literally, maybe once a year. XD

Even using the SLYR, I had chat turned off. I just want DH with a black background.

Anyone interested in the 5.8 with rechargeable battery pack, and PS3 usb chat? $150 total. Trust me, that's a fair price, considering it's rare as hell now.

BTW, those with Q701s...



dougr33 said:


> *65th ANNIE PADS SOON IN STOCK, VERY REASONABLY PRICED!!*
> 
> Considering that the driver units are the exact same part number on both 702 versions, I'm hoping the pads make a nice improvement to my broken-in 702s!
> 
> ...





Might be worth getting the pads, though not sure if it will turn them into Annies without the comfortable headband.

Also, put my 5.8 up for sale.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have a problemn with the SLYR's mixer. And I chat almost never anyways, lol. Literally, maybe once a year. XD
> 
> Even using the SLYR, I had chat turned off. I just want DH with a black background.
> 
> ...


 
   
  When I used the SLYR's mixer I noticed some strange background noises while dead silent. Also, I would strongly suggest getting a Marantz opposed to HK. I had a 247 with the common HDMI issue (that is how I ended up with the 3600, but it had Harman Headphone and not Dolby Headphone), and from the research I have done it appeared to still be a common issue with the newer 254. Plus IMO D&M Holdings > Harman.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless the Marantz has DH, I'm not interested. That and it can't be too expensive. I see the HK 354 for $300, which is my limit. Even if the HDMI doesn't work proper, I'd still use the optical inputs. I just want a silent background for DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Shoot, What was the order I had for the HE-400 again?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Unless the Marantz has DH, I'm not interested. That and it can't be too expensive. I see the HK 354 for $300, which is my limit. Even if the HDMI doesn't work proper, I'd still use the optical inputs. I just want a silent background for DH.


 
   
  You really think I would reply recommending you get the SR5001/2 if it didn't have DH? Come on now, lol... Plus, D&M typically uses better DAC's and their power supplies are MUCH stronger than the competitions.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

SoAmusing, I have the perfect link for you to test how much you can hear the difference of different compression bitrates, or at least get a general idea. Please check out my new thread next week, I'll post the link to the test on Monday and I would appreciate your testing it out and adding some thoughts.

I prefer my Recon3D's surround processing over SC for just the same reason as you, the reverb feels too unnatural. I was pleased THX TruStudio Pro did surround for me without extra reverb.


Mad, Nameless, Chico, everyone,
I've finally made the beginnings of my guide! I had to take first and second post quickly so that it'll follow the format I'm intending, so it's unfinished right now, but check it out sometime! I'll flesh out the wording, but maybe not tonight as my girlfriend wants me to come over.

Link to the "Wish I knew then what I know now" journal/guide:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Shoot, What was the order I had for the HE-400 again?




Lol, you should _probably_ keep the list to PMs, but I was 2nd to last before Calpis. Pittsburgh to Cali, yo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

burritoboy9984 said:


> You really think I would reply recommending you get the SR5001/2 if it didn't have DH? Come on now, lol... Plus, D&M typically uses better DAC's and their power supplies are MUCH stronger than the competitions.
> 
> -Erik




Ooh, $200 for the SR5001. Hmm... if it is indeed DH, I'll go for it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Unless the Marantz has DH, I'm not interested. That and it can't be too expensive. I see the HK 354 for $300, which is my limit. Even if the HDMI doesn't work proper, I'd still use the optical inputs. I just want a silent background for DH.


 
   
  If you don't care about HDMI, I would suggest getting an even older receiver with DH. You should be able to find one under $100 easily.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I'd prefer HDMI, but if it's faulty, I'd go with optical.

As soon as I sell the 5.8, I'll get the Marantz. Don't see the SR5002 though...

Okay...



> Nameless sends to Chico, Chico sends to Evs, and Evs sends to Calpis




I'll pack it up as soon as I get home and send it out.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ooh, $200 for the SR5001. Hmm... if it is indeed DH, I'll go for it.


 
   
  Don't spend that much. I picked up a NIB SR5002 off craigslist for $160 about a month ago (guy purchased 2 of them 4 years ago and only used 1). On ebay I've seen a couple go under $150. Go *here* to see all the ones on ebay, and *here* you can see how cheap some have gone in the past. You can also look at the SR400x series, they might not have as many HDMI inputs though.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd prefer to pay off Amazon due to my store card. If I sell my 5.8 fast enough, I'll check ebay.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd prefer to pay off Amazon due to my store card. If I sell my 5.8 fast enough, I'll check ebay.


 
   
  I thought you could only use the store card for stuff sold by amazon, not by 3rd parties?
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It works for 3rd parties. It just has to be sold on the site. There is one I REALLY want on Ebay. I need to sell the 5.8 though...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It works for 3rd parties. It just has to be sold on the site. There is one I REALLY want on Ebay. I need to sell the 5.8 though...


 
   
  Cool, learn something new everyday. Good luck with the sale.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll probably settle for a little less. I need that receiver.

Nvm, I bought it... Lol...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181063966916?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

SR5002 for $209 total. Used Bill Me Later.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll probably settle for a little less. I need that receiver.
> 
> Nvm, I bought it... Lol...
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL, you are like me, impulsive. You'll love it when you get it.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very. It's a curse, I tell you.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Very. It's a curse, I tell you.


 
   
  Well that was a pretty decent deal, and imo the receiver provides a better sound than the mixamp sounds deeper and wider. You HAVE to wait until you receive the receiver to sell the mixamp to compare the 2.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, we'll see.


----------



## Jhalf

I havent paid attention to this thread for a couple days, But 200 dollars for a receiver is just like paying for a DAC. I am still trying to pick out a DAC for the Matrix M stage for my annies. How are you planning to run the receiver? Does it have pre amp out you can use?
   
  I could return the Phoebus I have and buy a receiver that has DH. I am using an old pioneer receiver I have right now to drive my headphones now. I am not using the headphone amp from the phoebus.
   
  How do you get the DH processing from the receiver? Maybe a cheap soundcard that can do DDL through optical, to the receiver to process the DH, then to a pre amp out, then headphone..
   
  hmm..


----------



## burritoboy9984

jhalf said:


> I havent paid attention to this thread for a couple days, But 200 dollars for a receiver is just like paying for a DAC. I am still trying to pick out a DAC for the Matrix M stage for my annies. How are you planning to run the receiver? Does it have pre amp out you can use?
> 
> I could return the Phoebus I have and buy a receiver that has DH. I am using an old pioneer receiver I have right now to drive my headphones now. I am not using the headphone amp from the phoebus.
> 
> ...




You just plug in the headphone jack and select Dolby Headphone.

-Erik


----------



## Jhalf

Well I understand that, Just going off the theory that the M-stage would drive the headphones better, and it is already bought, I would like to use it as well.


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Who knows. I doubt I can tell a difference.
> I'd go with a receiver that has Dolby Headphone. I'd like to use PCM.
> 
> Nice website, but just short of a lot of artists I like.




Quite often the original recording or CD master is so shoddy that a little bit more/less compression would make even less of a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320kbps rips from the same source material (or even 192kbps most of the time, depends on genre and the particular recording).

I still rip all my CD to FLAC tho, it's the principle of the thing, plus it just makes sense as a way to future proof my collection. 200 or so CD take up less than 50GB anyway, and I can reconvert the whole shebang at any point without taking a hit in quality.

I do maintain a separate library with the whole thing converted to 192 mp3 so sync'ing is easier, Media Monkey's library and filter tools make it easy to keep it all straight. I still buy CD for artists/bands I really like, tho I've bought less lately (and more mp3 singles).

Amazon's new Autorip deal might spur me to buy more discs tho, since you get the best of both worlds... A disc you can rip to lossless later and the instant gratification of having your music on their cloud which you can easily steam and/or download to anything.




mad lust envy said:


> calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.
> 
> In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.
> 
> Which one do you have?




Couldn't you just go from the receiver's RCA out to the amp? Or would the receiver not let you use any headphone modes at that point? 

I doubt you'd harm anything going from a receiver's headphone output (which is often mediocre) to the hp amp, you'd just run into the same kind of situation as running a hp amp from a laptop's hp jack etc.

Not very different than going from Mixamp to hp amp, not ideal but ehh...


----------



## Impulse

Couldn't a cheap Xonar actually do DH for you JHalf and output it thru optical? Edit: or your Phoebus for that matter... Not too clear on what you have already after re-reading your post... M-stage + Phoebus + an old receiver?


----------



## Jhalf

Yeah but then I need a DAC.. which was the plan originally


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

impulse said:


> Quite often the original recording or CD master is so shoddy that a little bit more/less compression would make even less of a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320kbps rips from the same source material (or even 192kbps most of the time, depends on genre and the particular recording).
> 
> I still rip all my CD to FLAC tho, it's the principle of the thing, plus it just makes sense as a way to future proof my collection. 200 or so CD take up less than 50GB anyway, and I can reconvert the whole shebang at any point without taking a hit in quality.
> 
> ...




The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.

The good thing is the HE400 and AKGs are immune to output impedances, so I may not need my Compass 2 when gaming.

I can pretty much guarantee that RCA out wont have Dolby Headphone. That would be tied to the headphone jack.


----------



## NamelessPFG

So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!
   
  I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!
> 
> I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).




I would say over half of Marantz's receivers support DH. If the funds are there some of the newer 3d ones support it too. Just look at the specs to make sure.

-Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> You HAVE to wait until you receive the receiver to sell the mixamp to compare the 2.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, we'll see.


 
   
  x2
   
  Otherwise how will I know if the receiver is worth it and sounds any better than the mixamp + headphone amp setup!!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.


 
   
  Wait, I thought the point was to just go straight into the reciever HP jack with the headphones and skip the headphone amp....
   
  Is double amping the recievers HP jack really going to benefit over just the receiver?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. The amp may have cleaner power, and less output impedance. Amp inputs tend to have a huge impedance, so an earlier device in the chain even with a high output impedance wouldnt affect the frequency curve going into the headphone amp. That means a headphone wouldnt be affected.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.


 
   
  Just set it to wherever you set it when your source is the DAC, as that should be close to line level.  For example, with my ODAC the M-stage volume is around 40-50%, 11-12 o'clock.  When I plug in the mixamp, I set the m-stage to aroun 40-50% and then turn up the mixamp until it's the same loudness.  So the mixamp is then outputting a similar strength signal as the ODAC, aka close to line level.
   
  Correct?


----------



## chicolom

So it's 2013 and there still aren't any devices that take DD 5.1 via optical or HDMI, encode it into DH stereo via a decent DAC, then output it via RCAs at line level, 3.5mm line out, or even via RCA preamp out?
   
  It seems like that would be ideal if you already have an external headphone amp. 
   
  Using a full receiver _just _to encode DH (via the receivers DAC) and get a little cleaner signal out of the HP jack to source to another headphone amp seems silly. 
   
  There aren't any tiny receiver like devices that take HDMI (or just optical), encode DH via the DAC, and then output the signal by means of something other than a direct HP jack (RCA or 3.5mm line out)?
   
  Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound.  I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. Thats why id use my external amp, so it can stabilize the frequency response, and feed it to the headphone with its lower output impedance.


----------



## calpis

LOL... I was off doing some DIY stuff and this happens.
   
  I've connected my mstage to my avr247 before. I set the 247 to -5db to 0db and then adjust the rest on the mstage. When I'm playing purely out of hp jack on the receiver, I have it set from anywhere between -15db to -25db depending on which headphone and if I'm chatting with a mic directly hooked up to the controller. To my knowledge 0db is what sound producers master their audio at, I saw this on a youtube video somewhere.
   
  tbh, I couldn't really tell if there was a difference adding the mstage into the mix. Then again, I wasn't really seriously trying to find any difference but more for schiits and giggles.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7ojmAQS1s&feature=share[/VIDEO]



D'aw, this is ridiculously cute. Dunno how I missed it earlier.




chicolom said:


> ...
> 
> Using the reciever's HP jack directly to the headphone makes sense, but I don't know squat about how receivers HP jacks sound.  I just know people complain about the high output impedances on them...




I don't know what output impedance problems are _supposed_ to sound like, but I've had _squat_ problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) _or_ my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.

I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not 

Speaking of my thread, finally finished filling in my first mini-guide and topic on my thread, I can has comments/subscription? http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400

Need moar emphasis to text. [COLOR=FF00AA]MOAR![/COLOR] 

Also, your method of finding the line-out volume sounds logical and could be veeeery helpful to people. Do you mind if I quote your post in a later article? You'd be credited, of course.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Virtual Surround Sound "Guide" - Need Help!​
> Hey, do you really hear through walls with Dolby Headphone? Is it really unrealistic? I'm really hating the distortion/reverb (possibly echo too idk) with Silent Cinema.
> 
> Here's all I know of as far as other options in virtual surround sound (I did this once before, but I'm doing it again anyway). If anyone knows of any more, please let me know.
> ...


 

 Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
*FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR.  *Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.


----------



## Evshrug

deathdealer623 said:


> Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
> *FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR. * Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.




That sounds very promising. Especially since the timing comes very close to the impending Steam Box (might be called the Piston?), a small-sized PC built expressly to run games from Valve's Steam store. If the Steam box has headphone surround and people take notice (and it's not too hard to enable in games), it would be a major competitive advantage among all the other stuff PCs do better versus the next-gen consoles. Especially since there is speculation that there won't be too much graphically to set any one console apart from another.

Just.
ONE.
Console.
Has.
To.
Do.
It!


This is very relevant to the current topic on my thread... Just saying.

Also, SoAmusing's post kinda rubs me the wrong way. Seems to misrepresent stuff, very black-and-white. I hope I don't regret saying so in the morning, but maybe... Relax, a little? You may wish you hadn't spent so much money and worry, some day. Remember, they're just first world problems


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Couldn't a cheap Xonar actually do DH for you JHalf and output it thru optical? Edit: or your Phoebus for that matter... Not too clear on what you have already after re-reading your post... M-stage + Phoebus + an old receiver?


 
  The Phoebus doesnt have DH, it has Dolby Home theater V4, and I don't like it very much.
   
  Right now I am using Phoebus-> Optical out with the DHTV4 processing-> Old Pioneer receiver-> Headphone out.
   
   
  M-Stage is on the way.
   
  I was going to return the pheobus and get a DGX for the DH when my amp camp, but then wanted to invest in a better DAC. But it doesnt seem like there are any in my price range, that are optical in, and run off AC power.


----------



## Evshrug

^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?

I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).

*sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?
> 
> I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).
> 
> *sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh


 
   
  Yes I wrote about the Phoebus a while back.
   
  For you or anyone else that cares, i will reiterate my thoughts so far:
   
  My old Logitech G35 used Dolby Headphone, and i loved it. I was going to get the Xonar STX when my annies came because I could have picked it up at Microcenter, and just waited until my headphone amp and another DAC came, at which point I would return the STX and get a DGX (far cheaper), and a better DAC.
   
  Microcenter didn't have the STX, but they had the Phoebus, so I decided to try it, because it had similar hardware components as the STX. It differs from the STX though by not having Dolby headphone, but HTV4. My best guess is that I dont like HTV4 because
   
  HTV4: Takes stereo audio-> upmixes to some kind of surround-> then down mixes to stereo, where as
   
  DH: takes 5.1 signal-> down mixes to stereo, and sounds much better IMO
   
   
   
  My thoughts may be incorrect though, because reading the Marantz manual, it didn't say anything about what inputs it would take, just that when you plug in your headphones the reciever swtiches to DH.
   
  This worries me because if I was correct in saying that DH takes a legit 5.1 signal and downmixes it to stereo, you would have to use an input source that can transmit a 5.1 pcm signal (i.e. HDMI). Optical cannot send a full 5.1 signal, but I am guessing since the manual didnt specify, this DH feature would be turned on even if you used optical input, throwing away my idea.
   
  Then theres the whole DDL through optical that could work... oh boy too much to figure out.
   
   
  Ill have to see MLE impressions with the Marantz and his Headphone amp before figuring out what to do.


----------



## Jhalf

re: DTS:X
   
The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD bitstream, with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, DTS Headphone:X (embedded on a PC, tablet or phone) calibrates the headphones. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement is employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones
   
   
interesting


----------



## Evshrug

JHalf,
Can I quote your post in my thread about surround audio?

I'm a little tired, so I'll be brief (For Once!). If you have a Marantz, could you use a graphics card with HDMI out? My motherboard has HDMI. USB dongles can add HDMI. HD my eye.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> JHalf,
> Can I quote your post in my thread about surround audio?
> 
> I'm a little tired, so I'll be brief (For Once!). If you have a Marantz, could you use a graphics card with HDMI out? My motherboard has HDMI. USB dongles can add HDMI. HD my eye.


 
  Certainly
   
  and WRT your thoughts on HDMI, that's a whole 'nother biscuit. I am wondering what would happen if you connect your sound card to the Video card, if you could pass any DH processing, or 5.1 out through the HDMI.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HE-400 and ODAC is on it's way to Nameless.


----------



## Evshrug

Jhalf,
HDMI can send up to 8 channels (7.1 surround) of LPCM audio, if my tired brain remembers correctly. It's digital, too. So basically, you'd be having the game choose which channel to place a sound, and the receiver would mix the audio into DH, converting digital-to-analogue, amplify, and send out the signal through the headphone jack. I may have the name of the audio format wrong, but basically receivers can handle it.

I don't know if it's possible to connect a sound card directly to a graphics card, but in the setup I described, the receiver would basically be acting in place of a sound card. Too bad Dolby is 2D not 3D.

Mad,
Exciting. I got your PM too, though I'd already asked Calpis for his address a few days ago 
I might be able to edit description text for FiiO... Don't call it too early though we'll see. Gonna go to Starbucks now and see if they can schedule an interview.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Jhalf,
> HDMI can send up to 8 channels (7.1 surround) of LPCM audio, if my tired brain remembers correctly. It's digital, too. So basically, you'd be having the game choose which channel to place a sound, and the receiver would mix the audio into DH, converting digital-to-analogue, amplify, and send out the signal through the headphone jack. I may have the name of the audio format wrong, but basically receivers can handle it.
> 
> I don't know if it's possible to connect a sound card directly to a graphics card, but in the setup I described, the receiver would basically be acting in place of a sound card. Too bad Dolby is 2D not 3D.


 
   
   
  This is how I understand it too. I was going more along the lines of using the DH from a sound card like a DGX, then just using any old receiver/DAC with an HDMI input to convert it to stereo.
   
  Although I guess what you said would be easier, wonder if the Marantz receiver can output the DH through an RCA out. Then you could have could theoretically have Video card- HDMI out- Marantz receiver- headphone amp (For synergy)- headphone.
   
  It would be interesting to know if the DH sound changes with different inputs into the receiver. (Stereo, or legit 5.1) I still can't find out if DH uses a real 5.1 signal or not, but I would guess that the marantz receiver would tell you its giving you DH regardless of the input you send it.


----------



## Evshrug

jhalf said:


> This is how I understand it too. I was going more along the lines of using the DH from a sound card like a DGX, then just using any old receiver/DAC with an HDMI input to convert it to stereo.
> 
> Although I guess what you said would be easier, wonder if the Marantz receiver can output the DH through an RCA out. Then you could have could theoretically have Video card- HDMI out- Marantz receiver- headphone amp (For synergy)- headphone.
> 
> It would be interesting to know if the DH sound changes with different inputs into the receiver. (Stereo, or legit 5.1) I still can't find out if DH uses a real 5.1 signal or not, but I would guess that the marantz receiver would tell you its giving you DH regardless of the input you send it.




Define a "real" 5.1 signal? The Mixamp, turtle beach DSS, and Tritton ax720 unit all function by receiving DDL 5.1 audio sent over optical, inside where the unit processes that 5.1 with DH into stereo with the virtual surround effect, then the unit does DAC, Amp, export through headphone jack. DSS2 and Recon3D also use the 5.1 DDL signal, but use their own processing to produce a similar result. On a receiver hooked up to a DVD player or Blu-Ray disc, the disc player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio and video through optical (and whatever video-out) or both through HDMI to the receiver, the receiver uses DH again to convert the multi-channel audio to stereo with the surround effect, DAC, amp, e-jack't the signal. A console --> reciever setup is exacly the same. I don't see why a computer couldn't do the same to a receiver and suddenly DH couldn't "use a real 5.1 signal" and do the rest.

If you want RCA out, couldn't you just use a 3.5mm to RCA cable?

If you don't like the surround processing or amp of a receiver, seems strange to use the receiver at all just for it's DAC.

I know I'm tired, but I just got pretty confused.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, so I sent the package WITHOUT the HE-400 cable...

In a mad rush, I drove back to the mail service (Pakmail) and told him to get my package. Thank god they hadn't picked it up yet. :rolleyes:


Been a long night.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, so I sent the package WITHOUT the HE-400 cable...
> 
> In a mad rush, I drove back to the mail service (Pakmail) and told him to get my package. Thank god they hasn't picked it up yet. :rolleyes:
> 
> ...




Good exercise? :rolleyes:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do not know where my head is at today... though it's probably in my car. It won't start, had to borrow my roomie's for two days. Sigh... anyways, I fixed the issue. The HE-400 is completely on it's way. h34r:


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Define a "real" 5.1 signal? The Mixamp, turtle beach DSS, and Tritton ax720 unit all function by receiving DDL 5.1 audio sent over optical, inside where the unit processes that 5.1 with DH into stereo with the virtual surround effect, then the unit does DAC, Amp, export through headphone jack. DSS2 and Recon3D also use the 5.1 DDL signal, but use their own processing to produce a similar result. On a receiver hooked up to a DVD player or Blu-Ray disc, the disc player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio and video through optical (and whatever video-out) or both through HDMI to the receiver, the receiver uses DH again to convert the multi-channel audio to stereo with the surround effect, DAC, amp, e-jack't the signal. A console --> reciever setup is exacly the same. I don't see why a computer couldn't do the same to a receiver and suddenly DH couldn't "use a real 5.1 signal" and do the rest.
> 
> If you want RCA out, couldn't you just use a 3.5mm to RCA cable?
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Okay, so you have confirmed that DH does infact use an encoded 5.1 signal. That was what i was asking, and not sure if true. I have also suspected that if you give the marantz receiver a stereo signal it would try to use dolby pro logic give you a (not as good) DH signal.
   
  The benefit to using the marantz receiver as apposed to a DAC, is that it is the same price as a cheap soundcard + DAC. Plus it gives you options to hook all kinds of other stuff up to it, Bookshelf speakers, whatever.
   
  Its also unique to me because my nice home theater system using an Onkyo 806 receiver is setup in my living room, where my computer rig is also setup. I am currently using a 35' long HDMI cable from my computer to the onkyo receiver for when i want to listen to, or display content on my nice home theater setup. if i then put a Marantz receiver on my desk I could use its HDMI switch to go to both receivers (My 570 GTX only has 1 HDMI out).
   
  Ideally I am trying to find the best solution for my computers headphone setup. it originally involved DGX->DAC->M-Stage->Annies, but the DAC is tricky because there arent any decent AC power, with optical input units I can find in my price range. But if the receiver could give me the DH and DAC through my video cards HDMI, then I could replace those things with it.
   
  Im sure half of what I'm saying doesnt make sense, Im just throwing out random thoughts.


----------



## Evshrug

jhalf said:


> Okay, so you have confirmed that DH does infact use an encoded 5.1 signal. That was what i was asking, and not sure if true. I have also suspected that if you give the marantz receiver a stereo signal it would try to use dolby pro logic give you a (not as good) DH signal.
> *yes*
> 
> The benefit to using the marantz receiver as apposed to a DAC, is that it is the same price as a cheap soundcard + DAC. Plus it gives you options to hook all kinds of other stuff up to it, Bookshelf speakers, whatever.
> ...




Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.

If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least _try_ DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.

I am again ignoring source switching and stuff from receivers, because in your case you want to connect one source to two outputs... receivers ALSO usually just have one HDMI out.
-----


Mad,
We should sleep. Not together, but probably at the same time. My iPad's onscreen keyboard has begun to appear to have iridescent purple and green hues to it. But first, I must call a lady at a hotel to ask if I can work for her as an audio/video assistant, then I'll make a sandwich. Toasted roast beef with melted Brie cheese. Mmmmh.


----------



## calpis

Okay, info dump time. This is how I have my PC connected to my H&K avr254. First of all, I have 3 different audio outputs connected to my computer: Asus xonar u1 to Matrix Mstage, Onboard stereo jack to Mirage omni directional ipod speaker dock, and GTX550ti to Harman Kardon AVR254. Each setup has a different purpose and I switch between them using this program for windows that stays in the icon tray area.
  http://www.2shared.com/complete/QfcDZ8Vm/AudioSwitcher.html
   
  First here are the wire connections: DVI-1 of my gtx550 to DVI port on my monitor. DVI-2/HDMI-Mini of my gtx550 to HDMI-IN on my receiver. HDMI-OUT of my receiver to HDMI-IN of my monitor.
  I have it setup this way so I can still use my PC without having to have my receiver always be on.
   
  Now here's how I have it setup in windows 7:
  Enable 2nd extended monitor in the nvidia control panel. Turn on the receiver. Control Panel>Sound and set the receiver as the primary sound device. Make sure under "configure speakers" when you right click on the receiver is set to either 5.1 or 7.1. Boom audio.
  If you don't enable the 2nd monitor then the hdcp chain isn't complete and you won't get any audio. When I turn off the receiver, the receiver no longer appears in the sound devices.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.
> 
> If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least _try_ DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.
> 
> ...


 
  Thats awesome, And I will def try the DGX-Mstage-Annies. The M Stage is already bought.
   
  The thought about the receiver is that i could do GTX570 HDMI Out -> marantz receiver < M Stage-> Annies
                                                                                                                            HDMI Out-> Onkyo Receiver-> Home Theater Content


----------



## DeathDealer623

MLE,
   
  Are you planning on reviewing the Annie and updating the guide before you sell the mixamp??


----------



## Murder Mike

I should have my Annies + NFB 11.32 by the end of next week. (Thanks MLE) Am I correct in saying that all I would need for Dolby Headphone would be a Xonar DG or DGX?


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks Calpis, quite a solution you've worked out.


----------



## Zack117

Just ordered my first HiFi setup, DT 880/600 + E09k + E17. Now comes the painful part... WAAAITIIING!!!


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Just ordered my first HiFi setup, DT 880/600 + E09k + E17. Now comes the painful part... WAAAITIIING!!!


 
   
  Express shipping ftw. 

 Hope your setup fits your needs well.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Well, I have heard the AD700...and the HTF600...and the CitiScape Uptown...and a vintage Sansui SS-20. That's about it for "normal" cans. No Sennheisers, Beyerdynamics, AKGs, Denons, or Ultrasones to be found there. You know, the kind of headphones people talk about all the time. Rarely does anyone talk about Stax unless it's the flagship Omega-series models.
> 
> I just happened to be in a circumstance where instead of stepping up to AD900s or DT880s like I was originally thinking, I suddenly saw this Stax Lambda setup at a price I could afford, recalled the people in a PC gaming thread praising it for its gaming prowess, and the rest is history. Haven't really felt the need to buy more headphones since, other than sheer curiosity. Curiosity that often left me disappointed, at that.
> 
> Most people jump into electrostatics very late in their headphone journey, if they choose to do so at all. I did so very early, and that means I don't have any common frames of reference to compare to the Stax setups I've heard.


 
  I only know what one of those is. I have no clue about the rest, lol. Haha, right. Well, I shall remember that. Lucky you for getting into it so early. How are they for music? Totally understand. Yeah, you really don't. I'll be interested to see how you respond to conventional headphones, lol.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, my 2011 mixamp and Annies arrived today. The Pot on the mixamp seems a bit stiff, although that might be due to the below freezing temperature outside. I'm going to let it sit for a minute before I use it. In fact, I think 5 mins after touching it for the first time, it loosened up a bit.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a7ojmAQS1s&feature=share


 
  That is awesome 
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> If you really want to audition them then you really just need to try a DH device like a mixamp or tb dss. What you'll get out of the receiver will be better tone controls, absolutely dark noise floor and more power then out of just a mixamp or dss. I recommend the H&K avr-254 or if you have more money to spend then get a Marantz (their lower end receivers don't have DH iirc). I do have a couple issues with the 254 so I have to see if there's a firmware update for it.


 
  I know. There is an update. I'll check out Marantz too I suppose.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> calpis. My problem is that I already have a headphone amp. I wonder if it's safe to hook up an amp to a receiver's hpo. Lol.
> 
> In fact, I WANT a receiver now. I'll sell my 5.8 to help fund for one. No reason to have a Mixamp after that. I have the SLYR's mixer for voice chat.
> 
> Which one do you have?


 
  Finally, you want one, lol. Wait, so the SLYR mixer does what?
   Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I don't have a problemn with the SLYR's mixer. And I chat almost never anyways, lol. Literally, maybe once a year. XD
> 
> Even using the SLYR, I had chat turned off. I just want DH with a black background.
> 
> ...


 
  U must not play games that rely on chat. I want the same thing, but I gotta be able to hear my teammates talking.
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> When I used the SLYR's mixer I noticed some strange background noises while dead silent. Also, I would strongly suggest getting a Marantz opposed to HK. I had a 247 with the common HDMI issue (that is how I ended up with the 3600, but it had Harman Headphone and not Dolby Headphone), and from the research I have done it appeared to still be a common issue with the newer 254. Plus IMO D&M Holdings > Harman.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Ah, I had no clue. Maybe a firmware upgrade fixes this? What's different with the Marantz as opposed to the HK?
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Don't spend that much. I picked up a NIB SR5002 off craigslist for $160 about a month ago (guy purchased 2 of them 4 years ago and only used 1). On ebay I've seen a couple go under $150. Go *here* to see all the ones on ebay, and *here* you can see how cheap some have gone in the past. You can also look at the SR400x series, they might not have as many HDMI inputs though.
> 
> -Erik


 
  NIB?
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> SoAmusing, I have the perfect link for you to test how much you can hear the difference of different compression bitrates, or at least get a general idea. Please check out my new thread next week, I'll post the link to the test on Monday and I would appreciate your testing it out and adding some thoughts.
> 
> I prefer my Recon3D's surround processing over SC for just the same reason as you, the reverb feels too unnatural. I was pleased THX TruStudio Pro did surround for me without extra reverb.
> 
> ...


 
  I'd love to! Yes it does.
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> You really think I would reply recommending you get the SR5001/2 if it didn't have DH? Come on now, lol... Plus, D&M typically uses better DAC's and their power supplies are MUCH stronger than the competitions.
> 
> -Erik


 
  How does it compare to a HK?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll probably settle for a little less. I need that receiver.
> 
> Nvm, I bought it... Lol...
> 
> ...


 
  That seems like a great price!
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Quite often the original recording or CD master is so shoddy that a little bit more/less compression would make even less of a difference. Personally I can't tell the difference between FLAC and 320kbps rips from the same source material (or even 192kbps most of the time, depends on genre and the particular recording).
> 
> I still rip all my CD to FLAC tho, it's the principle of the thing, plus it just makes sense as a way to future proof my collection. 200 or so CD take up less than 50GB anyway, and I can reconvert the whole shebang at any point without taking a hit in quality.
> 
> ...


 
  Right. That's a good decision. That's freaking awesome sounding (Amazon thing)!


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

For anyone who cares, the steelseries mixer is back in stock. You can use it (3.5mm)  with a receiver for audio and USB end for mic support.
   
http://shop.steelseries.com/us/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audio-mixer.html


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The receiver's hpo would be better than the Mixamp's, which is what I have always used. My concern is where to place the volume knob on the receiver when attaching my Compass 2. A receiver will have much more power/volume, and I wanna be able to feed the compass 2 the right amount. Basically line level. I can guarantee line level by maxing the receiver out, but I know it wouldn't be necessary.
> 
> The good thing is the HE400 and AKGs are immune to output impedances, so I may not need my Compass 2 when gaming.
> 
> I can pretty much guarantee that RCA out wont have Dolby Headphone. That would be tied to the headphone jack.


 
  HPO? Headphone orifice? lol. What is all this about impedances? I'm confused. Why is it immune? I 2nd the RCA comment.
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> So the Marantz SR5001 and SR5002 have DH? Great, that means I can shop for receivers other than the Harmon Kardon AVR 254 and AVR 354 when the time comes!
> 
> I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).


 
  Yeah, I'm really glad to know this as well. I'd like to the same. Yup, that last bit is what is important to me.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> x2
> 
> Otherwise how will I know if the receiver is worth it and sounds any better than the mixamp + headphone amp setup!!


 
  I'm curious as well!
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> So it's 2013 and there still aren't any devices that take DD 5.1 via optical or HDMI, encode it into DH stereo via a decent DAC, then output it via RCAs at line level, 3.5mm line out, or even via RCA preamp out?
> 
> It seems like that would be ideal if you already have an external headphone amp.
> 
> ...


 
  So, use the receiver first, then send it out to the amp? I'm thinking 6.33mm adapter to 3.5mm female, then just run a 3.5mm male to male cord? It does seem silly.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. Thats why id use my external amp, so it can stabilize the frequency response, and feed it to the headphone with its lower output impedance.


 
  I don't understand this. Help?
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> LOL... I was off doing some DIY stuff and this happens.
> 
> I've connected my mstage to my avr247 before. I set the 247 to -5db to 0db and then adjust the rest on the mstage. When I'm playing purely out of hp jack on the receiver, I have it set from anywhere between -15db to -25db depending on which headphone and if I'm chatting with a mic directly hooked up to the controller. To my knowledge 0db is what sound producers master their audio at, I saw this on a youtube video somewhere.
> 
> tbh, I couldn't really tell if there was a difference adding the mstage into the mix. Then again, I wasn't really seriously trying to find any difference but more for schiits and giggles.


 
  Nicee, lol. Glad to hear you didn't really hear a difference, lol.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> D'aw, this is ridiculously cute. Dunno how I missed it earlier.
> I don't know what output impedance problems are _supposed_ to sound like, but I've had _squat_ problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) _or_ my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.
> 
> I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not
> ...


 
  I agreeee.
  Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> Pioneer's Headphone Surround is good too. I've gamed w/ it for past few years as well as DH and I have no problems with it.
> *FYI... THE GAME CHANGER MAYBE THE NEW DTS HEADPHONE X SHOWN @ CES THIS YEAR.  *Very good impressions of it and will come out at end of year.


 
  How is it compared to DH? I can't wait till December 2013 though, lol. Interested nonetheless.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> That sounds very promising. Especially since the timing comes very close to the impending Steam Box (might be called the Piston?), a small-sized PC built expressly to run games from Valve's Steam store. If the Steam box has headphone surround and people take notice (and it's not too hard to enable in games), it would be a major competitive advantage among all the other stuff PCs do better versus the next-gen consoles. Especially since there is speculation that there won't be too much graphically to set any one console apart from another.
> 
> Just.
> ONE.
> ...


 
  That seems pretty sweet (the box)! What's up with the specs on the box though? Let me try to rub the other way then, lol. I can see that, but let me explain. I'm just serious about audio. Very serious. I haven't spent much money or worried a lot. It's a hobby of sorts now.
   
Explanations​  ​  2. Silent Cinema - Quite reverby and distorts the sound a bit much for me. Explanation - I've used it myself. Others can attest to this.
   
  3. Thx TruStudio - Can only use 5.1 DD and others have reported the mixamp being better. Explanation - Lossless isn't compressed. Best SQ is a must for me. MLE said the Recond3D was 75% that of the Mixamp.
   
  4. CMSS-3D - N/A - See 8. No explanation Needed
   
  5. Random Company's Surround Sound
   
  6. Sony's Implementation - It's very popular, and if it was the best, everyone would use it. Explanation - It's the truth? It's logic.
   
  7. MyEars - N/A - See 8. Plus I've heard it sounds crap. Explanation - The company never answered my emails, talked about having a console version of this 2 or 3 years ago (never came out), and MLE mentioned it was crap.
   
  8. Sound Card - Won't work. It's been tested by BurritoBoy. Explanation - Sorry Man.. << Directed towards Burrito
   
  9. Smyth Realizer - Just totally unrealistic and too expensive for me. Explanation - I forget the whole setup process, but it's just too much for me. It's wayy expensive. Not trying to bash it. It's amazing, but at what cost? It's still 7.1 in the end.
   
  10. DSS - Mixamp is a better version of this. Explanation - Not my words, MLE's. They're both DH devices.
   
  11. DSS2 - No clue. It only simulates 4 speakers, and if I wanted chat, I'd have to get a Steelseries audio mixer which would introduce hiss on top of whatever the DSS2 is adding and lower overall SQ a little. I'd say other techs are better, plus, I just don't like TB, too mainstream. Explanation - It's the truth again. I say that other techs are better because it's TB. I look at their track record. I've also found, in life, most mainstream products aren't the best. I suppose this is a bit biased. You can get me on this one.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ^Why am I getting a sense of déjà vu... did you already write that the Phoebus uses Dolby home theater? Version 4?
> 
> I still think the best thing is more samples so people can test out what kind of processing works best for them, and I really want to help in my own small way by producing my own samples. What if Dolby Headphone doesn't turn out to be all that and a box of raisins for you guys? Maybe that's what returns are for, but still... Good length and quality samples would be much easier. I'm not really sure I've ruled out CMSS-3D yet either, I just didn't like the few samples (and I'm treble-scared).
> 
> *sigh* this is good discussion, I really wish some of it was on my mini-guide before I post a new topic around Monday. Some day it will reach subscriber critical mass, and it will almost write itself, for now I just gotta be patient. I purposefully started with headphone surround, because people ask about it yet don't usually have much need to add to the explanation, and I think I'll be able to talk to myself for a while. I don't want to steal from this thread (I'm subscribed to a bunch of threads myself), I just want to archive resources. Well, I think I might also miss writing articles, heh


 

 I agree. That would be lovely if you could do that. Hahaha, all that and a box of raisins. Never heard that before. I love it. Then we move on to the next best thing? It sure is. I hope you receive all the fame and fortune u wish  It'll happen. An all in one thread would be nice.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





jhalf said:


> re: DTS:X
> 
> The DTS Headphone:X experience first requires surround content to be encoded as a DTS-HD bitstream, with the room information embedded in the stream. Next, DTS Headphone:X (embedded on a PC, tablet or phone) calibrates the headphones. Finally, the reference data is decoded and post-processing enhancement is employed to deliver a truly amazing, home theater quality surround sound experience over headphones
> 
> ...


 
  Interesting indeed!
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> JHalf,
> Can I quote your post in my thread about surround audio?
> 
> I'm a little tired, so I'll be brief (For Once!). If you have a Marantz, could you use a graphics card with HDMI out? My motherboard has HDMI. USB dongles can add HDMI. HD my eye.


 
  LOL. A dongle? Just no.. I have the same question.
  Quote: 





jhalf said:


> This is how I understand it too. I was going more along the lines of using the DH from a sound card like a DGX, then just using any old receiver/DAC with an HDMI input to convert it to stereo.
> 
> Although I guess what you said would be easier, wonder if the Marantz receiver can output the DH through an RCA out. Then you could have could theoretically have Video card- HDMI out- Marantz receiver- headphone amp (For synergy)- headphone.
> 
> It would be interesting to know if the DH sound changes with different inputs into the receiver. (Stereo, or legit 5.1) I still can't find out if DH uses a real 5.1 signal or not, but I would guess that the marantz receiver would tell you its giving you DH regardless of the input you send it.


 
  Ohh, duh, DGX doesn't use DH. I'm sorry. I need to eat.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Define a "real" 5.1 signal? The Mixamp, turtle beach DSS, and Tritton ax720 unit all function by receiving DDL 5.1 audio sent over optical, inside where the unit processes that 5.1 with DH into stereo with the virtual surround effect, then the unit does DAC, Amp, export through headphone jack. DSS2 and Recon3D also use the 5.1 DDL signal, but use their own processing to produce a similar result. On a receiver hooked up to a DVD player or Blu-Ray disc, the disc player sends the 5.1 or 7.1 channels of audio and video through optical (and whatever video-out) or both through HDMI to the receiver, the receiver uses DH again to convert the multi-channel audio to stereo with the surround effect, DAC, amp, e-jack't the signal. A console --> reciever setup is exacly the same. I don't see why a computer couldn't do the same to a receiver and suddenly DH couldn't "use a real 5.1 signal" and do the rest.
> 
> If you want RCA out, couldn't you just use a 3.5mm to RCA cable?
> 
> ...


 
  I think I get the whole purpose of a DAC now. We can only hear analog? lol. I don't see why not either. That's a good question. Yeah, that would seem to be a waste of money.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Wow, so I sent the package WITHOUT the HE-400 cable...
> 
> In a mad rush, I drove back to the mail service (Pakmail) and told him to get my package. Thank god they hadn't picked it up yet.
> 
> ...


 
  Just curious, why do you use Pakmail? Haha, oh my. Close one.
  Quote: 





jhalf said:


> Okay, so you have confirmed that DH does infact use an encoded 5.1 signal. That was what i was asking, and not sure if true. I have also suspected that if you give the marantz receiver a stereo signal it would try to use dolby pro logic give you a (not as good) DH signal.
> 
> The benefit to using the marantz receiver as apposed to a DAC, is that it is the same price as a cheap soundcard + DAC. Plus it gives you options to hook all kinds of other stuff up to it, Bookshelf speakers, whatever.
> 
> ...


 
  I don't think so. PCM will work with DH I believe. Ask Nameless. Oh my goodness, why sure much in the line? Why not just use a receiver and headphones?
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.
> 
> If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least _try_ DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.
> 
> ...


 
  I should eat too. Why soundcard and amp? Power? What is the purpose of a DAC?  LOL (about you and Mad). That made it weird  Silly Apple products. Hope you get the job! Sounds delicious though 
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Okay, info dump time. This is how I have my PC connected to my H&K avr254. First of all, I have 3 different audio outputs connected to my computer: Asus xonar u1 to Matrix Mstage, Onboard stereo jack to Mirage omni directional ipod speaker dock, and GTX550ti to Harman Kardon AVR254. Each setup has a different purpose and I switch between them using this program for windows that stays in the icon tray area.
> http://www.2shared.com/complete/QfcDZ8Vm/AudioSwitcher.html
> 
> First here are the wire connections: DVI-1 of my gtx550 to DVI port on my monitor. DVI-2/HDMI-Mini of my gtx550 to HDMI-IN on my receiver. HDMI-OUT of my receiver to HDMI-IN of my monitor.
> ...


 
  Well, then a graphics card will work with a receiver with sound? I always wondered this. That's a nice setup.
  Quote: 





jhalf said:


> Thats awesome, And I will def try the DGX-Mstage-Annies. The M Stage is already bought.
> 
> The thought about the receiver is that i could do GTX570 HDMI Out -> marantz receiver < M Stage-> Annies
> HDMI Out-> Onkyo Receiver-> Home Theater Content


 
  I like that setup, but will it work (the one with the graphics card)? Why have a receiver and M-Stage?
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I do not know where my head is at today... though it's probably in my car. It won't start, had to borrow my roomie's for two days. Sigh... anyways, I fixed the issue. The HE-400 is completely on it's way.


 

 Where's your head at? Ever heard that song? You just made me think about it, lol. Lara Croft  Gonna listen to it nao. It's been so long. This song rocks


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> For anyone who cares, the steelseries mixer is back in stock. You can use it (3.5mm)  with a receiver for audio and USB end for mic support.
> 
> http://shop.steelseries.com/us/audio/steelseries-cross-platform-audio-mixer.html


 
   
  Thank you very much. I was curious.
  Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> MLE,
> 
> Are you planning on reviewing the Annie and updating the guide before you sell the mixamp??


 
  I bet so. I hope he does.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> I don't know what output impedance problems are _supposed_ to sound like, but I've had _squat_ problems using my Yamaha's headphone-out with with either my Q701 (62 Ohms) _or_ my AD700 (32 Ohms). I'm skeptical. Where did the theory start, because I would BET it started with the cost-compromised receivers bundled in HTIB sets, where almost all the parts are just slapped together and given a somewhat pretty face on the outside.
> 
> I will be opening this topic for debate on my thread soon, might be a good chance to see if there is a scientific basis for impedance "synergy" or not




A lot of receivers tend to have obnoxiously high output impedance on the headphone out but that doesn't mean they all do tho, and a lot of people with a high output impedance amp and a low impedance headphone may simply not notice or not mind the effect it has (on bass particularly).

It's very much a case of YMMV, but something to be aware of if you're looking to drive a pair of headphones optimally or if you're looking to compare them across different sources/amps.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Do I make sense? Lol. I should eat something.
> 
> If the DGX or similarly priced soundcard has a headphone jack, can I suggest you at least _try_ DGX->M-Stage->Annies before you buy a DAC? I'm only trying to be a friend and save you a few hundred bucks. If you haven't bought an M-Stage yet, yet you desire the option of bookshelf speaker alternatives, I would suggest you instead buy an integrated amp like the Audiogon N22, for example. It's like a receiver without the FM receiver, and more care spent (according to the mfr) on the headphone components than on a typical receiver.
> 
> ...




I think trying out the M-stage straight from his Phoebus or a DGX first makes a lot of sense... They have a pretty decent DAC, unless you're spending a few hundred bucks on a discrete DAC you might not reap any benefit from having another device in the chain.

I'm quite happy with my STX, tho I've been eyeing something like the N22 to power a pair of spare Infinity bookshelves I have and simultaneously drive some of my lower impedance headphones (possibly better than the 10 ohm output STX can).

 I don't really use my other hp much at my desk tho, the M-80 occasionally if the neighbors are having a party... But that might change if I splurge on the X1 later in the year, been for an alternative to my Beyers, possibly something that would be fun for movie watching.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





impulse said:


> It's very much a case of YMMV, but something to be aware of if you're looking to drive a pair of headphones optimally or if you're looking to compare them across different sources/amps.


 
   
  Or purchase them after listening to them in store or relying on someone elses review.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Ah, I had no clue. Maybe a firmware upgrade fixes this? What's different with the Marantz as opposed to the HK?
> 
> NIB?
> 
> How does it compare to a HK?


 
   
  It was an issue with fault ports. In many peoples opinions, Marantz receivers have a better and cleaner sound than HK. I may partly biased because all the receivers in my house are D&M Holdings branded. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  New in Box.
   
  Never listened to an HK with DH but the Marantz sounds great compared to a Mixamp.
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> It was an issue with fault ports. In many peoples opinions, Marantz receivers have a better and cleaner sound than HK. I may partly biased because all the receivers in my house are D&M Holdings branded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Maybe edit your post to reflect that, because I bet some people wouldn't buy the receiver based on that alone. I bet they do. I checked one out. 32-bits!? That's the biggest thing I noticed. Ah, got it. Why do you think it sounds great compared to the mixamp? Power? Internals? I'm betting both. Is it DD vs PCM? Also, which Marantz receivers have Dolby HP? I'd really like to keep this $300 or less.


----------



## Moby1

Would the annie be fine straight to mixamp without amp? With a mic that is


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, it's louder than the Q701, probably due to the better seal of the pads. I'm still not sure on the Mixamp alone. I know those drivers are notorious for wanting a lot of power, and the Q7021/K701/2 take a steep dive in volume once voice chat is mixed in...


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> *Maybe edit your post to reflect that, because I bet some people wouldn't buy the receiver based on that alone.* I bet they do. I checked one out. 32-bits!? That's the biggest thing I noticed. Ah, got it. Why do you think it sounds great compared to the mixamp? Power? Internals? I'm betting both. Is it DD vs PCM? Also, which Marantz receivers have Dolby HP? I'd really like to keep this $300 or less.


 
   
  Not sure which part of what I said you were talking about. What is 32-bits?
   
  As for another reason I like Marantz and Denon, is they state their TRUE continuous power ratings. You can go *here* to get an idea of what I mean. Also the dac's they use are typically top of the line for each price point. As for finding one, I suggest you find one and then lookup the manual and check if it has Dolby Headphone as some of them don't state it very well in the specs. Also, I STRONGLY suggest looking on craigslist. There is a local guy with an SR5004 for $200, which makes me want to sell my SR5002 and snag it, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Not sure which part of what I said you were talking about. What is 32-bits?
> 
> As for another reason I like Marantz and Denon, is they state their TRUE continuous power ratings. You can go *here* to get an idea of what I mean. Also the dac's they use are typically top of the line for each price point. As for finding one, I suggest you find one and then lookup the manual and check if it has Dolby Headphone as some of them don't state it very well in the specs. Also, I STRONGLY suggest looking on craigslist. There is a local guy with an SR5004 for $200, which makes me want to sell my SR5002 and snag it, lol.
> 
> -Erik


 

 No, I was talking about the faulty HDMI port. The DAC is 32-bits. It said it on the Ebay page that MLE purchased from. I was gonna ask, but I read and understand. Wow. I see. That's a big point. Ugh, that's so much work. I'll look on Craigs then.


----------



## chicolom

AGhhgh!!
   
*SoAmusing777*, _too much "multi-quoting!"_
   
  You've got several posts on the previous page that each have 8-10 other messages quoted inside!
   
  Trim down your posts plzzz


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> AGhhgh!!
> 
> *SoAmusing777*, _too much "multi-quoting!"_
> 
> ...


 

 Eh. I do what I can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I sold the Mixamp 5.8. I'll see about getting the Annie review out Sunday...

Long story short:

Fun: 8
Competitive: 9.5
Comfort: 9.5


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll see about getting the Annie review out Sunday...
> 
> Long story short:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Those are very high scores 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But, you also gave the CAL an 8, so would you say they're equally good??  How can the anniversary be any better if it's also 8?????? 
   
  JK


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn you, Chico! :mad:

Dang, I sold the Mixamp on ebay, so while I already know what I'm gonna say, I need to take one last hour with the Mixamp before dropping it off at the mail service for a quick refresher of the Annie. Don't think im getting the Marantz for a few weeks. Dunno how long ebay takes...

Expect the review of the Annie on Sunday, maaaaaybe today/Saturday.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I sold the Mixamp 5.8. I'll see about getting the Annie review out Sunday...
> 
> Long story short:
> 
> ...


 

 Oh, how did you get them sold? High scores indeed!
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Those are very high scores
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh, you're really funny, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Damn you, Chico!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Ebay shouldn't take _that _long.  I've gotten stuff super fast before, but it depends on how far away it's coming from and whether the seller is lazy about putting it in the mail.  Good sellers will put it in the next day and it will get there as fast as the post office can send it.
   
  I don't see why it would take a few weeks, unless it's international...


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I think trying out the M-stage straight from his Phoebus or a DGX first makes a lot of sense... They have a pretty decent DAC, unless you're spending a few hundred bucks on a discrete DAC you might not reap any benefit from having another device in the chain.
> 
> I'm quite happy with my STX, tho I've been eyeing something like the N22 to power a pair of spare Infinity bookshelves I have and simultaneously drive some of my lower impedance headphones (possibly better than the 10 ohm output STX can).
> 
> I don't really use my other hp much at my desk tho, the M-80 occasionally if the neighbors are having a party... But that might change if I splurge on the X1 later in the year, been for an alternative to my Beyers, possibly something that would be fun for movie watching.


 
   
  To answer you earlier questions, the M-Stage got here today, so its already bought. Im copying my post from Nameless' thread:
   
  ****Eh, so my M-Stage came today (Wasnt expecting it) which caused me to have a mad dash to Microcenter before they closed, and they only had the Creative Z, not the DGX, like I want. So i bought it and brought it home. Currently have it set up like: Z->Front speaker line out (On back of card)-> RCA-> M-Stage-> Annies.
   
  Its the same as the Phoebus. Creative's SBX Pro Studio has a "Surround Sound" Slider that you can adjust how much surround you want. Its just like Dolby HTV4, and not as good as Dolby Headphone.
   
  I dont understand why they seem to be getting rid of discrete 5.1->stereo technologies in favor of these "surround sound" emulators.
   
  Ill be returning it tomorrow to get a DGX from another Microcenter.*****
   
   
  Boy, I just want this to be over. Hopefully Ill have the DGX tomorrow, and will use DGX-Line out-> M-stage- Annies


----------



## LB Felipe

Does a Sound Blaster Z drive well a K702 65th Anniversary Edition?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I played around with the Annies a bit after they arrived yesterday. They are fairly comfortable and I like the velour earpads. The only thing is that it seems that I have such a massive head that the headband doesn't really give me a comfortable enough fit. It's snugh, but I feel that there is a little too much force on the top of my head. I'm glad I got these as opposed to the regular Q701s. I can't even imagine trying the bumps, my head hurts already...
   
  As far as sound quality, I can't really comment on that as of yet. There did seem to be some grain on some music I listened to, but to be fair, that was using my built-in computer DAC. I'm going to at least buy a decent one (along with an aditional amp for gaming) before forming my final opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a big head, and I still have some headroom. You would definitely find the Q701 and older Ks to be absolute torture if the Annie is causing discomfort. I get zero downward pressure, and most of the pressure is from the very slight clamp of the cups. I can literally raise the Annie a little and the headband just sits there. Near zero down pressure.

You must be experiencing what I do with the older models. I have zero headroom, and so it sits very tight with constant down pressure. Looks like you need the HD650 which has headroom for a gargantuan.

As for grain.... hmm, I dunno. The Annie is *quite* smooth for everything except maybe some anime. Anime tends to be quite mid and upper range oriented, it makes even the HD650 sound grainy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> Does a Sound Blaster Z drive well a K702 65th Anniversary Edition?


 
  I would make a guess the Sound Blaster Z should have no problem driving the K702.
  (Can't see any reason why not).
  Check out the Sound blaster Zx, Newegg and Amazon are selling it for $120 with free shipping.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annie gets loud off many things, but loudness =/= driven well. Again, these drivers are finicky., You can drive them loud even with a lowly Fiio E5, but you're not gonna get your money's worth.

I don't know why people constantly recommend low power devices for the AKGs which are the most finicky bastards when it comes to amping than any other headphone I have heard (other than the HE-4).

They prefer amps with over 1watt of power at their impedance (64ohm, for spare power), FWIH. That's how much they scale. Most of these devices can't even do that at 32ohm. Not that they don't sound good off desktop power amps like the E9K. As long as you have over 200mw (max power the K702s can take in at once) at the AKG's impedance, you should be doing pretty good. For example, the Fiio E11 only does 200mw at 32ohm. At 64ohm, it's about half of that, which means the AKGs can handle a lot more than the E11 can give it.

The Annie is more forgiving due to the better seal (allowing for more volume to reach your ears), and smoother sound which hides defects, but it's a disservice to skimp out on power.

edit: Damn, I woke up too late, and couldn't send the Mixamp. Well, I guess I have a day to use them...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my Brainwavz stands. Bought two of them (Annie and HE-400).

Currently using one for the SLYR... 

They go for $25 on Amazon... I think they're a lot more classy than the Rubbermaid Hose Hook I was using... and a lot more sturdy.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got my Brainwavz stands. Bought two of them (Annie and HE-400).
> 
> Currently using one for the SLYR...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sweet I bought one.
   
  -Erik


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Annie gets loud off many things, but loudness =/= driven well. Again, these drivers are finicky., You can drive them loud even with a lowly Fiio E5, but you're not gonna get your money's worth.
> 
> I don't know why people constantly recommend low power devices for the AKGs which are the most finicky bastards when it comes to amping than any other headphone I have heard (other than the HE-4).
> 
> ...


 

 But would you say the Mixamp+E11 is sufficient for the Annie?  I also use E11 attached to Pioneer AVR (Phones Surround) as well.  If not, is there another more powerful amp (under $200 or so) that also has a bass boost or adjustable EQ like the E11 that may do Annie's more justice?  I auditioned the Magni as well but, the sound quality seemed close enough and I preferred the E11 bass boost so the Magni was sent back.  Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your Pioneer AVR has definitely got to be more powerful than the E11, so you're making SQ worse.

I personally wouldn't bass boost the Annie, which would take away from the mids...but that's just me.

The E9K, Magni, O2, and other desktop amps would be decent with the Annie. The E11 is basically about half the potential of the Annie, IMHO. Perhaps you may not notice the difference, but it's there. If you're fine with the E11, than that's fine. I just personally don't see how people can spend over $400, and not drive their headphones to somewhat near their best potential. Like buying an HD800 and using only 128kbps files.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Your Pioneer AVR has definitely got to be more powerful than the E11, so you're making SQ worse.
> 
> I personally wouldn't bass boost the Annie, which would take away from the mids...but that's just me.
> 
> The E9K, Magni, O2, and other desktop amps would be decent with the Annie. The E11 is basically about half the potential of the Annie, IMHO. Perhaps you may not notice the difference, but it's there. If you're fine with the E11, than that's fine. I just personally don't see how people can spend over $400, and not drive their headphones to somewhat near their best potential. Like buying an HD800 and using only 128kbps files.


 
  Appreciate and respect your advice/opinions.  Correct me if wrong, I thought the double amping just added to the power output.  I re-boxed Magni but, still have it.  Maybe I will give it more time.  My concern and goal was to have a little more low end presence as I typically use 7.1 home theater and miss the sub late at night.  I use these exclusively for 70%games & 30% movies, no music which probably reveals larger differences, so maybe that's why I am a little less critical.  I came from HD598 so I must have that large soundstage.
   
  Is it possible to use another EQ before Mixamp+Magni on PS3 or even added some where in chain on my HTPC->AVR (I use MKV's in XBMC for Bluray)?  If not, thanks for the advice regardless.


----------



## LB Felipe

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I would make a guess the Sound Blaster Z should have no problem driving the K702.
> (Can't see any reason why not).
> Check out the Sound blaster Zx, Newegg and Amazon are selling it for $120 with free shipping.


 
   
   
  Thanks.
   
  Some say that Q701, K701 and K702 are hard to drive because they are highly sensitive even they are just 62-Ohm though.
   
  They say that amps such Fiio E9K are not so good to drive AKGs because it has a high floor noise. They recommend O2. So I ask whether SBZ drives well these AKGs.
   
  I saw Zx is for the same than Z, but I live in Brazil hence I cannot buy from Newegg or Amazon.


----------



## BetaWolf

Hello folks. I did not know this thread existed. This is highly informative. I see that AKG is a good brand for gaming. Something I cannot see anywhere is whether the Q701 is closed or open ear. It looks open, but I cannot find a definitive answer.
   
  Is there anyone here who uses a Core3D card (i.e. Recon3D or Sound Blaster Z) with closed-ear headphones? I'm looking for a good set for under $400 that plays well with SBX. I currently own an X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional, but will be upgrading to a Sound Blaster ZxR in the future.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lb felipe said:


> Some say that Q701, K701 and K702 are hard to drive because they are highly sensitive even they are just 62-Ohm though.
> They say that amps such Fiio E9K are not so good to drive AKGs because it has a high floor noise. They recommend O2. So I ask whether SBZ drives well these AKGs.
> I saw Zx is for the same than Z, but I live in Brazil hence I cannot buy from Newegg or Amazon.


 
  Try asking on this thread.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I played around with the Annies a bit after they arrived yesterday. They are fairly comfortable and I like the velour earpads. The only thing is that it seems that I have such a massive head that the headband doesn't really give me a comfortable enough fit. It's snugh, but I feel that there is a little too much force on the top of my head. I'm glad I got these as opposed to the regular Q701s. I can't even imagine trying the bumps, my head hurts already...
> 
> As far as sound quality, I can't really comment on that as of yet. There did seem to be some grain on some music I listened to, but to be fair, that was using my built-in computer DAC. I'm going to at least buy a decent one (along with an aditional amp for gaming) before forming my final opinion.


 
  I don't think they are velour. I think the Q's and K's are velour, but the Annies are memory foam. I definitely noticed a different in the pads. They keep cooler it seems, while being more comfortable (for me at least), and seem to not attract hair/dust/crap as much. My goodness, lol. I thought they was plenty of room for any head size. Read below, I had the same uncomfort in the beginning, somewhat anyway. Aw. Well, hope it gets better. Maybe try the X1 when it comes out. Should be similar to the Annies, maybe with more bass. Do the headphones justice! Use something better! Lol.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have a big head, and I still have some headroom. You would definitely find the Q701 and older Ks to be absolute torture if the Annie is causing discomfort. I get zero downward pressure, and most of the pressure is from the very slight clamp of the cups. I can literally raise the Annie a little and the headband just sits there. Near zero down pressure.
> 
> You must be experiencing what I do with the older models. I have zero headroom, and so it sits very tight with constant down pressure. Looks like you need the HD650 which has headroom for a gargantuan.
> 
> As for grain.... hmm, I dunno. The Annie is *quite* smooth for everything except maybe some anime. Anime tends to be quite mid and upper range oriented, it makes even the HD650 sound grainy.


 
  Same here, on all accounts. This is so much more comfortable than the Q's. Actually, at first, I thought it was uncomfortable. It was def more comfy, but I had a similar uncomfy feeling. Well, I just adjusted them and/or have gotten use to them. I wouldn't change a thing about these. Not the way they look, feel, are built, or perform. I don't see what could be improved at all. Biggest thing for me is how damn comfy they are as well as being auto-fitting. No things to click. Just slide it on. Other companies should take note. No grain with me either. Even with it being oriented that way, the bass is wholly satisfying. This is coming from someone who grew up with hip-hop/rap influences. I love bass. I love all the ranges, but I gotta have my bass.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Annie gets loud off many things, but loudness =/= driven well. Again, these drivers are finicky., You can drive them loud even with a lowly Fiio E5, but you're not gonna get your money's worth.
> 
> I don't know why people constantly recommend low power devices for the AKGs which are the most finicky bastards when it comes to amping than any other headphone I have heard (other than the HE-4).
> 
> ...


 
  Those stands are sexy. What are they made out of for $25? You must make some decent money, lol, or get good deals somewhere along the line, maybe both. I always see you getting new stuff. So, would your Marantz receiver be enough for the Annies? Also, what are you going to use to mix the game/chat volume when using the receiver?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, after using it a bit more it not as uncomfortable as I had thought originally.


----------



## Impulse

jhalf said:


> To answer you earlier questions, the M-Stage got here today, so its already bought. Im copying my post from Nameless' thread:
> 
> ****snip*****
> 
> Boy, I just want this to be over. Hopefully Ill have the DGX tomorrow, and will use DGX-Line out-> M-stage- Annies




That sucks, dunno why they're regressing like that... AFAIK CMSS-3D and DH were always fairly popular in the PC space. I've read the Z series isn't as neutral as something like the Ti HD too but haven't seen any conclusive proof or testing. Hopefully the DGX works out for ya.


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Those stands are sexy. What are they made out of for $25? You must make some decent money, lol, or get good deals somewhere along the line, maybe both. I always see you getting new stuff. So, would your Marantz receiver be enough for the Annies? Also, what are you going to use to mix the game/chat volume when using the receiver?




Meh, it all depends on how savvy you are with money and your life situation... It seems MLE resells most things. Those Brainwavz stands are made of plexi I think, looks like a thick sheet of plexi tho.

If you're gonna balk at $25 for his stand you'd cringe at the $35 I paid for a stainless steel stand a while ago...  It's really a towel rack from Crate and Barrel, heh, what's worse is that for a whole year that stand just held a pair of $30 JVC headphones. 

This hobby is still cheaper than a lot of my friend's other hobbies (cars, guns, etc.), or speakers for that matter.

Anyway, I'm curious to know if MLE has any other comments on the stand tho, I do need to get a second one for my living room and I think the Brainwavz one matches that room better (might be gentler on the headband padding too).


----------



## SoAmusing777

Glad you're warming up to it Hey Arnold 
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Meh, it all depends on how savvy you are with money and your life situation... It seems MLE resells most things. Those Brainwavz stands are made of plexi I think, looks like a thick sheet of plexi tho.
> 
> If you're gonna balk at $25 for his stand you'd cringe at the $35 I paid for a stainless steel stand a while ago...
> 
> ...


 
  Sure. I'm pretty savvy  Yup. They probably are. Yes it does. I'm not. I'm just a cheap ass. Lol. 25$ seems fair I suppose. Idk how much plexi manufacturing is and what not. Aha. Funny. Yes yes yes it is..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I don't think they are velour. I think the Q's and K's are velour, but the Annies are memory foam. I definitely noticed a different in the pads. They keep cooler it seems, while being more comfortable (for me at least), and seem to not attract hair/dust/crap as much. My goodness, lol.


 
   
  Velour is just the outer material (the soft plush stuff).  Both Q701 and K702/65 have foam inside the pads and the outside is wrapped in velour, but the 65 has memory foam on the inside while the Q701 has "regular" foam.
   
   
  PS. If your getting _crap_ on your headphone pads, your using it wrong.


----------



## Evshrug

... except what is the purpose of a DAC (Digital-to-Analogue Converter: digital is a binary on/off, 1s and 0s state, it needs to be converted to an analogue waveform signal that vibrates a headphone driver, just so, to create pitch and decibel).

Lossless IS compressed, it's just compressed in such a way and light enough that technically it should be beyond human hearing. DDL is compressed, a DDL 5.1 signal through optical is what feeds the Mixamp, Recon3D USB, DSS, DSS2, Tritton's thingie, etc

SoAmusing, frankly,

...

Nope, can't do it. Deleted a bunch of stuff again. Kinda wish this was Xbox Live.


----------



## Evshrug

I didn't ask for explanations. Really. But here's some things, because instead of upset I'd rather be helpful to others who may have been confused by your post. So here's a few things.

Lossless IS compressed, it's just compressed in such a way and light enough that technically it should be beyond human hearing. DDL is compressed, a DDL 5.1 signal through optical is what feeds the Mixamp, Recon3D USB, DSS, DSS2, Tritton's thingie, etc. You haven't heard ANY of these devices, and I don't think you really know how they work. As far as subjective sound ratings, an honest opinion is a good hint but even a well-respected reviewer doesn't speak gospel and is not going to know what you will experience or like.



> 6. Sony's Implementation - It's very popular, and if it was the best, everyone would use it. Explanation - It's the truth? It's logic.



Here's an example of your blanket assumptions. There are many others of your flawed "logic." I'm not going to say you'll like Sony's headphone surround, but obviously some do if it's popular, and it may be good enough for them. Another option may be more refined, but neither you nor I have heard it, so we can't claim we know anything by "truth" or "logic" just because we say so.



> 8. Sound Card - Won't work. It's been tested by BurritoBoy. Explanation - Sorry Man.. << Directed towards Burrito



I have a hard time believing a feature advertised and implemented "won't work," especially since this is essentially already working the same way in devices like the Mixamp and Recon3D USB.

Lastly, I respect Mad's opinion, but if the Recon3D doesn't work for him but it works for me, I'm also going to be open minded about I95NORTH's opinion about the DSS2. I95North also identified the processing tech used, by cirrus logic or something, and it creates a virtual surround effect based on the same DDL 5.1 sound and direction cues fed to it that consoles feed every optical connection. The rumors of it only accepting 4.1 channel surround are ludicrous if you think about it, if my center channel speaker is disconnected from a 5.1 setup I don't get dialogue.
------

I mad this post to get some things off my chest and clear some misconceptions.
*DON'T QUOTE THIS POST OR TRY TO EXPLAIN WHERE YOU WERE COMING FROM, WE KNOW. THIS POST AND YOUR PAST ONES ARE BLANKETING THE WALL ENOUGH ALREADY.*


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> Hello folks. I did not know this thread existed. This is highly informative. I see that AKG is a good brand for gaming. Something I cannot see anywhere is whether the Q701 is closed or open ear. It looks open, but I cannot find a definitive answer.
> 
> Is there anyone here who uses a Core3D card (i.e. Recon3D or Sound Blaster Z) with closed-ear headphones? I'm looking for a good set for under $400 that plays well with SBX. I currently own an X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional, but will be upgrading to a Sound Blaster ZxR in the future.


 

 Why can I never get an answer in these threads? 
  I'm currently considering the Audio Technica A900x for this. If anyone can give me advice on closed-ear headphones, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> Why can I never get an answer in these threads?
> I'm currently considering the Audio Technica A900x for this. If anyone can give me advice on closed-ear headphones, I'd appreciate it.


 
  Thread can move super fast.
   
  I can give you some headphones to research but opinions I don't have.
   
  DT770 32ohmSE to 600ohm (Pro80 on front page.)
  MMX300 DT770 with a mic and much nicer looking cups.
  AKG K550
  Creavtive Auvaruna Live reviewed front page also I own and love them.
  Ultrasone Pro900 reviewed front page.
  and your choice the A900X
   
  Can you order from a place with a good return policy? Reason I say this is you can research till you are blue in the face(and still do), get 100s of opinions, but in the end it is all about you. Your head shape your ear shape your brain and how it likes the sound and comfort.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I have a hard time believing a feature advertised and implemented "won't work," especially since this is essentially already working the same way in devices like the Mixamp and Recon3D USB.


 
   
  Not sure where you saw it being advertised and implemented, links? If you still don't believe it I'll make a wager with you where I'll purchase the sound card, send it to you, and when you realize it doesn't work, you pay me for the sound card and $20 for being right. If by some miracle you prove me wrong I'll pay for the sound card, shipping to me and I'll give you $20.
   
  -Erik
   
  P.S. The above was totally meant as a rhetorical statement, although I would like to see proof of it being "advertised and implemented". Read *this*.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> Why can I never get an answer in these threads?
> I'm currently considering the Audio Technica A900x for this. If anyone can give me advice on closed-ear headphones, I'd appreciate it.


 
  The ATH-A900X is about my best sounding headphone.


----------



## Impulse

Lossless audio isn't compressed in a way that any difference should be beyond human hearing, it's compressed in a way that there's literally no difference (vs the uncompressed original)... Hence the name y'know (no loss of information), and why files are like 10x larger than MP3's of any bitrate. It's like zipping up a file, the result after unzipping it isn't a file that's sorta like the original, it's the original.
   
  MP3 are analogous to a JPEG, lossy compression, information's always lost regardless of what bitrate/etc you use. Ideally it's mostly information beyond our hearing range but y'know, it isn't perfect. That's why lossless is a good format for archiving, you can reconvert to any format w/o taking a loss in quality, once you've got an MP3 any further conversion incurs further loss of info.
   
  Note that I'm not advocating lossles should sound far and wide better than high bitrate MP3's or anything, the value of lossless is more for practical purposes than anything IMO. Just trying to clear up previous comments about lossles...


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

They are definitely more comfortable now that I've actually figured out how to put them on my head...
   
  Before I wanted to set them straight on the apex(?) of my head. Looking at the headband shape I was able to extrapolate that they (the designers of the headphone) likely wanted us to use it tilted slightly forward. It puts less pressure on my head that way.


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Thread can move super fast.
> 
> I can give you some headphones to research but opinions I don't have.
> 
> ...


 
  That's good advice, and thanks for the reply. The thing is that I've read the Ultrasone Pro 900 is kind of muddy compared to the competition, and the DT770 is a bass monster. I have an ear condition that causes bass to sound unpleasant to me, so I'd rather not risk a set that emphasizes bass. The Aurvana Live seems like a good choice, but it might be a bit similar to the headset, and I'm really looking to go in the mid audiophile range. I use a Creative Fatal1ty Headset MKII, which I love, but I'd like to go even higher. I didn't know about the AKG K550 though. I'll consider between that and the A900x.
   
  I'm also concerned about how these sets will play with CMSS-3D and SBX. First time I heard CMSS-3D with my MKII, I was blown away. It's useful for me not only in FPSes, but in RPG and adventure titles as well. People underestimate how much it helps to be able to hear zombies and wolves come up behind you.
   
  What's a place with a decent return policy, by the way? I was going to just order from Amazon. I've used them, but have never filed a return, so any advice would be helpful.


----------



## mild555

Does anyone have experience with HE500 in gaming?
   
  Are they doing good with virtual surround?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Velour is just the outer material (the soft plush stuff).  Both Q701 and K702/65 have foam inside the pads and the outside is wrapped in velour, but the 65 has memory foam on the inside while the Q701 has "regular" foam.
> 
> 
> PS. If your getting _crap_ on your headphone pads, your using it wrong.


 
  Ohh. Sorry. You are the expert here  The outer material indeed does seem the same (because it is). Yeah, let me specify, it felt different when pressure was applied. It feels cooler to me too. Hahaha, oh my, you got me 
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Lossless audio isn't compressed in a way that any difference should be beyond human hearing, it's compressed in a way that there's literally no difference (vs the uncompressed original)... Hence the name y'know (no loss of information), and why files are like 10x larger than MP3's of any bitrate. It's like zipping up a file, the result after unzipping it isn't a file that's sorta like the original, it's the original.
> 
> MP3 are analogous to a JPEG, lossy compression, information's always lost regardless of what bitrate/etc you use. Ideally it's mostly information beyond our hearing range but y'know, it isn't perfect. That's why lossless is a good format for archiving, you can reconvert to any format w/o taking a loss in quality, once you've got an MP3 any further conversion incurs further loss of info.
> 
> Note that I'm not advocating lossles should sound far and wide better than high bitrate MP3's or anything, the value of lossless is more for practical purposes than anything IMO. Just trying to clear up previous comments about lossles...


 
   Thank you. This was my understanding too. Wait, that makes it sound like I could take an original FLAC file and convert it to an 44kbps MP3, while not taking a loss in quality. Further explain this for me please? See, that's why I love MOG. They say they get the files straight from the record companies and what not, while being super high bitrate at 320. I agree with the last statement though.
   
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> ... except what is the purpose of a DAC (Digital-to-Analogue Converter: digital is a binary on/off, 1s and 0s state, it needs to be converted to an analogue waveform signal that vibrates a headphone driver, just so, to create pitch and decibel).
> 
> Lossless IS compressed, it's just compressed in such a way and light enough that technically it should be beyond human hearing. DDL is compressed, a DDL 5.1 signal through optical is what feeds the Mixamp, Recon3D USB, DSS, DSS2, Tritton's thingie, etc
> 
> ...


 
  Yup, so I was right. That's what I thought a DAC was. Logic and common sense helped me figure that out. I'm just gonna let Impulse's quote resonate here. You and him can go at it. I know how the stuff works. Why? So you could rage at me? Look, If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm not meaning to "spread the gospel" or provide misinformation. These are my findings through plenty of research and talking with people, along with my own hearings. Sorry if I upset you, and honestly, I talk a lot. I'm like a sponge too. I'm learning. I know you didn't ask for explanations, and I guess my quote came off the wrong way, but I feel like I needed to give you them because you said I was being black and white and all that. I had reasons. I really don't think my post was that confusing, but maybe so. I tried. If anyone was confused they could PM me or quote me. Well, no, I haven't heard ANY of those hooked up to my headphones I have now. The thing is, the Mixamp, DSS, and Tritton, are all Dolby HP devices. Mad has reviewed them. I was basically referring back to him. My own opinion though? They all provide the same thing! Dolby HP! Some obviously have higher build quality as compared to the others, hence the hissing, not to mention the other things, most of which are covered in his review. The mixamp has that universal quality about it, as well as the mixing of game and chat, with is very useful. People already know this though. Also, if you throw a receiver into the mix, well, my goodness, I'm really explaining this. I do know though, that those devices oftentimes, will not provide enough power for the headphones, let alone throwing chat in. I'm not going to list all the benefits of a receiver here. People pick what's best for them in a given situation, but as far as FOR ME, which all of this was about, that's why I posted that list. It happens to be a good representation of the best as well, as cut and dry as it may be. I know how they work just fine to make an informed decision. It's popular because it's Sony! It's mainstream! It's widely available! It has good marketing! It is somewhat of a blanket assumption, but really, if it were that good, people on Head-Fi and AVS, as well as the rest, would be using it over the other choices. Mad didn't even mention it. My logic isn't flawed. Yeah, I'll let Burrito handle the sound card. I have no clue about the Recon3D though. Some people prefer ThX TruStudio Pro to CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone, but this is mainly regarding the PC. I honestly cannot say much about that than what I previously said. I do know though, the only available option is the Recond3Dusb for console, which uses optical, hence the compressed DD5.1. I want PCM. I talked all about this when I first came here. DSS2 sounds pretty neat though. Optical once again. It does sound ridiculous... I had read in two places people weren't sure, from Mad, and KBI. I definitely retract what I said about the DSS2 after further reading. I told you that was the one you could get me on, lol. That's about the only one I have done enough research on.
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Not sure where you saw it being advertised and implemented, links? If you still don't believe it I'll make a wager with you where I'll purchase the sound card, send it to you, and when you realize it doesn't work, you pay me for the sound card and $20 for being right. If by some miracle you prove me wrong I'll pay for the sound card, shipping to me and I'll give you $20.
> 
> -Erik
> 
> P.S. The above was totally meant as a rhetorical statement, although I would like to see proof of it being "advertised and implemented". Read *this*.


 
  Thank you.
  Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> They are definitely more comfortable now that I've actually figured out how to put them on my head...
> 
> Before I wanted to set them straight on the apex(?) of my head. Looking at the headband shape I was able to extrapolate that they (the designers of the headphone) likely wanted us to use it tilted slightly forward. It puts less pressure on my head that way.


 
  Mine weren't as uncomfortable as you made yours sound, but yeah, we had the same deal. I knew it! Glad to hear it  apex? as in middle? Nice vocab btw. Whatever works. I'm not sure where I wear mine (i forgot what two words that sound the same but spelled differently are called).


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

SoAmusing, I have (as well as most other people) a "mount" in the middle to back of the cranium. Our head isn't exactly flat or perfectly globular...
   

   
   
  I place my headband on the crease between the parietal bone and the temporal bone. Whereas before, I put it smack in the middle of the my cranium, where the highest point of my head is located. This illustration isn't exactly 1:1, but just so you get an idea.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> SoAmusing, I have (as well as most other people) a "mount" in the middle to back of the cranium. Our head isn't exactly flat or perfectly globular...


 

 Haha, I'm just giving u a hard time! In the middle to back of my head (only can see when near bald) I had a place that looks like someone hit my head with a shovel, lol. Oh wow, lol, you even have a diagram! Nice! Wow, after examination of the human skull, we have odd heads. That's a lot of weight in the rear. Well, that helped a lot, because I think that's exactly what I did and exactly what I do now.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

mild555 said:


> Does anyone have experience with HE500 in gaming?
> 
> Are they doing good with virtual surround?


 
  I'm actually wondering about that myself. Although I really want the HE-500 or (HE-400) for non gaming use, since my Annies will probably hold that honor. I will also own a Stax set up at some point in my life.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


>


 
   
  Jeez dude - you write a lot without actually saying anything.
   
  Honestly - there's no need to quote a wall of text just to add "me too", "I agree", "Thankyou", "I leaned something" etc.
   
  You say you're trying to learn and find the best setup etc, but you're posting your thoughts often as statements, not questions which makes it hard to know whether you're trying to add information to the thread or get information from it.
   
  What exactly is your setup and what are you after?
   
  From what I gather you're looking for the best gaming audio from a console?
   
  Also music from the PC?
   
  Are they in the same room (able to share hardware?)
   
  What have you actually tried with your system?
   
  Have you tried a mixamp? Chances are it would solve 90% of your gaming issues (in conjunction with a headphone amp to power the K702's)
   
  Have you tried any of the solutions you mention and find them lacking?
   
  (note - MLE posted this thread with mainly surround sound console gaming in mind, thus why you don't get some information you're after from his reviews etc)
   
  By chance - (please don't be offended) - would English be a second language for you? It would explain a lot of the strange style and cohesion of your posts and you're doing very well if that is the case.


----------



## lubczyk

If anyone cares, MLG dropped Astro as their official headphone sponsor and is partnering with Turtle Beach instead.
   
  So now all those tournament folk are going to be using Surround Angles instead of Dolby Headphone.
   
  I don't know how to feel about this, but I've always thought Turtle Beach products to be a couple tiers below Astro and Skullcandy.
   
  http://www.turtlebeach.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





raband said:


> Jeez dude - you write a lot without actually saying anything.
> 
> Honestly - there's no need to quote a wall of text just to add "me too", "I agree", "Thankyou", "I leaned something" etc.
> 
> ...


 
  Not always. You make a very valid point though. I guess I just quote so people can see what I'm responding to, and even though it's not me saying much of anything, at least they see that someone read it and found it helpful or whatever.
   
  Yes, I am. I'm doing both. I learn quickly. I do use question marks.. My goodness.
   
  Current setup is in my profile. I may put it in my sig later. It's a Yamaha AX710 receiver, with the headphones plugged into it. I have a usb mic that sits on the desk in front of me.
   
  I'm after a virtual surround tech that will utilize lossless. Optical can't carry 5.1 other than through Dolby Digital. HDMI is the only way to go for the PS3, hence me wanting to use a receiver. Also want to mention I'm going to be using the Antlion Modmic in my final setup.
   
  Yes, best gaming audio from a console.
   
  Yes, I love music more than anything. The music will come from the PC.
   
  Yes, they are in the same room.
   
  Tritton AX Pro, Psyko Carbon 5.1, and a Yammy receiver (the one I have) coupled with the Q and K702 Annie.
   
  No, I can't use the mixamp. It's DD5.1. Everything I've tried so far has been lacking, with my current receiver being the best.
   
  EDIT: Just wanted to add something here.
   
  Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* 


  
  I actually wouldn't mind seeing an A/V receiver shootout here in this thread. May be a bit overkill for headphone processors, but it's also the only way to get virtual surround out of HDMI sources short of the Smyth Realiser (and that only takes LPCM).
   
  EDIT - So, the PS3 only has 3 options, and the only way to get lossless out of it is HDMI, which leaves me with only a choice of the receiver, plus add-ons.
   
  I know he did. I know that.
   
  *Sighs* Why be offended? No, it's my first and only language. I did very well in school in English, although I hated it, maybe partially due to how complex it can be coupled with all the stupid essay topics and time limits on some of them. I'm still working at this. When I speak in person, it's different. I've never done this forum thing before either, so it's all new to me. That's just awful to hear for me, but thanks for the input?
   
  Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> If anyone cares, MLG dropped Astro as their official headphone sponsor and is partnering with Turtle Beach instead.
> 
> So now all those tournament folk are going to be using Surround Angles instead of Dolby Headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  I do. What an interesting choice on their part. I feel the same. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Jhalf

Quote: 





impulse said:


> That sucks, dunno why they're regressing like that... AFAIK CMSS-3D and DH were always fairly popular in the PC space. I've read the Z series isn't as neutral as something like the Ti HD too but haven't seen any conclusive proof or testing. Hopefully the DGX works out for ya.


 

 It has! For me, Dolby Headphone is an immense improvement over DHTV4 and Pro Studio. I may pony up and get a better DAC at some point though.


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote: 





jhalf said:


> It has! For me, Dolby Headphone is an immense improvement over DHTV4 and Pro Studio. I may pony up and get a better DAC at some point though.


 

 I'll have to consider getting an Omega Claro or Xonar STX instead of a Sound Blaster ZxR, if this is so. Does Dolby Headphone have positioning for audio above and below, like SBX?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> I'll have to consider getting an Omega Claro or Xonar STX instead of a Sound Blaster ZxR, if this is so. Does Dolby Headphone have positioning for audio above and below, like SBX?


 
  The Xonar DX & D1 sound cards ($70) come with the same audio processor (CMI8788) as the Essence STX & ST.
  So you can just use any external headphone amplifier you like into the Xonar DX/D1.
   
  Also the Titanium HD ($100-$150) seems to be the preferred card for Creative Labs sound cards.
  You can also plug any head amp. into to the Titanium HD.


----------



## Impulse

betawolf said:


> What's a place with a decent return policy, by the way? I was going to just order from Amazon. I've used them, but have never filed a return, so any advice would be helpful.




Go with Amazon, they have a very liberal return policy (no restock fee) and excellent service. If you decide to return them the worst case scenario is you'd have to pay for the shipping if you admit you're returning them because you just didn't like them.


----------



## Vader2k

So, I did my first heavy gaming session with the Annies on the Mixamp with chat on Fri night.  As I started out, with the chat dial at around 4 o'clock, I heard my friend just fine, but the game sound was... lacking.  It clearly wasn't full bodied and lacking punch.  Hailin mentioned earlier that he was able to turn the dial back towards game and still hear voice well, so I gave that a go.  I found I could get the dial to 2 o'clock without impacting chat volume and the game sound was back to what it should be.  I ended up with the Magni at between 11 and 12 o'clock as well.
   
  While playing, I came to a better understanding (I won't claim to fully understand this early on!) of the enormity of the x70x soundstage.  It was sooo spacious.  And for the first time ever, I was able to pinpoint the location of my friend during matches.  On the HPX-1s and even the PortaPros, I would definitely get sound surrounding me, but the specific locations of sounds was more generalized.  I had two very specific instances where I heard my friend take cover, got a bearing on where I thought the sound likely came from, went to that location, and sure enough found him exactly where I had heard him! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I want to mention something I discovered about double-amping with the Mixamp.  The first time I hooked everything up, I had the Annies plugged into the Magni, turned it and the Mixamp on, and found I could turn the Mixamp all the way up without hearing any hiss.  On Fri, I hooked the Annies straight up to the Mixamp after my gaming session and actually heard some hiss with the volume dial at 2 o'clock (where I had it during my gaming session).  It didn't go away until I dialed back to about 1 o'clock.  So, basically, find your Mixamp's hiss spot before double-amping, then add in the amp.  I'm guessing this was already known and probably mentioned earlier in the thread, but thought I'd share it nonetheless.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I found that regardless of finding the point where the Mixamp doesn't hiss, it will still hiss once you get to a loud enough decibel level when double amped.

For example...

Maxing out the Mixamp + external amp on lower volume

vs

Mixamp on no hiss area + louder on external amp

Is the SAME EXACT hiss. Do an SPL test, and you'd see, there's no difference. The Mixamp introduces hiss to the audio chain from the beginning, even if it's inaudible to your ears. Once you reach a certain volume range, the hiss will come out, even if the Mixamp isn't up to that point itself.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





raband said:


> Jeez dude - you write a lot without actually saying anything.
> 
> Honestly - there's no need to quote a wall of text just to add "me too", "I agree", "Thankyou", "I leaned something" etc.


 
   
  QFT
   
  Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Yes, I am. I'm doing both. I learn quickly. I do use question marks.. My goodness.
> 
> I do. What an interesting choice on their part. I feel the same. Thanks for the link...


 
   
No offense, but it's really hard to read your posts.  
   
  Here is my constructive criticism... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You tend to use very fragmented sentences, which are inherently confusing and hard to follow.  You also post and say things like, _"Yes.  Yes.  No.  Sometimes.  Same here.  Sure it does.  Maybe.  I love that too.  I agree..."_  Those responses mean _nothing _to the reader unless the reader takes the time to go back and forth and try to match each response to each question and decipher what you're trying to say.  We're not privy to your thought process you had at the moment you wrote your post, and we don't want jump back and forth between the quoted text and your reply to try and make sense of what you're referring to.
   
  It's pretty confusing (and a little annoying) to try and read them.  To be honest, as soon one of your posts start to fall into the quick, fragmented response patterns that requires me to go back and look for the original questions, I just stop reading and skip ahead to the next post.
   
   
  If you _do _want to post that way there is a better way to do it.  The best way for others to read and understand that type of post is by _replying within the quote itself_ and *bolding *_your _replies.
   


Spoiler: Here's%20an%20example



 
  What exactly is your setup and what are you after?
   
*I'm after a virtual surround tech that will utilize lossless. Optical can't carry 5.1 other than through Dolby Digital. HDMI is the only way to go for the PS3, hence me wanting to use a receiver. Also want to mention I'm going to be using the Antlion Modmic in my final setup.*
   
  From what I gather you're looking for the best gaming audio from a console?
   
*Yes, best gaming audio from a console.*
   
  Also music from the PC?
   
*Yes, I love music more than anything. The music will come from the PC.*
   
  Are they in the same room (able to share hardware?)
   
*Yes, they are in the same room.*
   
  What have you actually tried with your system?
   
*Tritton AX Pro, Psyko Carbon 5.1, and a Yammy receiver (the one I have) coupled with the Q and K702 Annie.*
   
  Have you tried a mixamp? Chances are it would solve 90% of your gaming issues (in conjunction with a headphone amp to power the K702's)
   
*No, I can't use the mixamp. It's DD5.1. Everything I've tried so far has been lacking, with my current receiver being the best.*


   
  ^ See how much _easier _that is to read?  There is a reason Q&A interviews are written and formatted this way on both websites and magazines 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Sure it takes a little more time for _you _to write, but it takes infinitely less time for _us _to read and understand your reply.
   
   
  It's also NOT necessary to quote and reply to every little comment that people make. 
   
  When people post, they assume others are going to read it and acknowledge what they say.  They don't need always need a "verbal" affirmation for everything they've said.  So, it's NOT necessary to go through and multi-quote everybody's posts acknowledging everything they wrote.  _Do that in your head.   _
   
  When you post massive multi-quotes and just say things like _"Yes......I agree.....Good point.....Interesting..."_ - that's unnecessary posting.  Given the frequency in which you post in the aforementioned format, some of your posts come across being empty/unproductive/spammy/etc, although I'm sure you don't mean them to.  Just assume that everyone else already assumes that everyone else is going to read their posts.  For example, I assume you just read that last sentence twice, but that's a rhetorical assumption and I don't actually need an answer - _silent_ acknowledgement will do. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Personally, I typically l only post when I have something _meaningful _or _productive _to say.  When I do post, I take the time to write my posts carefully, I choose the words purposefully, and I mean what I say.
   
   
  Anyways, that's my posting advice.  I apologize if I sound like an A-hole. 
  You say you learn quickly, so lets see it!


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I found that regardless of finding the point where the Mixamp doesn't hiss, it will still hiss once you get to a loud enough decibel level when double amped.
> 
> For example...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Really?  Bummer, didn't realize it's present in the signal overall.  I haven't pushed the Magni super loud yet, but so far I have heard zero hiss coming through.  Is there any chance the Magni is filtering it out?  Regardless, I'm curious and will probably try to hear where it starts to come through on the Magni.
   
  It's a bit of a downer to keep finding the shortcomings of the mixamp, despite the usefulness it has.  First the below-35Hz clip, and now the persistant hiss.  I'm guessing this (and other) issues played a part in deciding to move into receiver territory?  I'm very curious to read your findings on the marantz.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Our head isn't exactly flat or perfectly globular...
> I place my headband on the crease between the parietal bone and the temporal bone.


 
   
  An appropriate picture for _Head_-fi....


----------



## raband

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> An appropriate picture for _Head_-fi....


 

 He's still trying to get IEM's to stay in


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





raband said:


> He's still trying to get IEM's to stay in


 
   
  For some reason I feel like he'd be better off with bone conduction headphones.


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Thank you. This was my understanding too. Wait, that makes it sound like I could take an original FLAC file and convert it to an 44kbps MP3, while not taking a loss in quality. Further explain this for me please? See, that's why I love MOG. They say they get the files straight from the record companies and what not, while being super high bitrate at 320. I agree with the last statement though.




Amazon and iTunes files use a similar bitrate tbh, even though I think they're sorta derided amongst many around here. I think some of them use or may have used VBR in the past (which shifts the bitrate throughout the track as deemed necessary), but it shouldn't matter if properly encoded. I've no clue where each company pulls their stuff from tho, I imagine that's covered by the licensing deals with the studios.

Quality of the original recoding probably has far more of an impact than the end stage encoding, and there's a lot of poorly recorded/mastered stuff out there these days (not even these days either, it's always been an artist vs engineer dynamic at play).

Anyway, no you couldn't convert a FLAC file into a low bitrate MP3 without losing information, that wasn't what I said at all. If you did that you'd lose data because of the target rate, but not because the original is missing any. You could rip a CD to FLAC and burn it back without losing anything in the process tho. If you were to rip it to MP3, anything you do afterwards incurs a loss.

You can rip a CD to FLAC and then re-encode to a high enough bitrate MP3 without an audible loss, or you could go from FLAC to another lossless format without any loss whatsoever.

It's not a very complicated concept if you do five minutes of reading and take a second to understand it. There's simply different types of compression and despite the stigma some compression algorithms don't alter the content at all, they're obviously much less effective at actually compressing tho, it's just simple math.

You lose data with MP3 because of the form of compression used, when I say you can covert a FLAC file into something else without incurring a penalty it's meant in contrast to an MP3 where you've already taking a penalty by going to MP3 and any further re-encode compiles the loss. The Wikipedia article on lossless compression probably explains it better without going into all these possibly confusing examples.


----------



## Impulse

raband said:


> Jeez dude - you write a lot without actually saying anything. Honestly - there's no need to quote a wall of text just to add "me too", "I agree", "Thankyou", "I leaned something" etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> By chance - (please don't be offended) - would English be a second language for you? It would explain a lot of the strange style and cohesion of your posts and you're doing very well if that is the case.




Hey! I take offense with that, English's MY second language... 

jk Spanglish all the way! 

But yeah, not to pile on poor SoAmusing but I skip large chunks of his posts because they're unintelligible unless one takes the time to reference the quotes back and forth. I tried pointing it out before and he took offense with it, maybe I didn't do so in the best possible tone. Chico did as much a few posts back tho (#11053), hopefully it helps, it's just constructive criticism man.

Also, SoAmusing, if you just want to acknowledge useful posts you could use the +rep button which introduces a lot less clutter than quoted posts with single word replies. It's right there next to the quote button.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

impulse said:


> Hey! I take offense to that, English's MY second language...
> 
> jk Spanglish all the way! .




QUOTED FOR FUGGIN TRUTH.



In other news, The Annie LOVES to be played loud. The bass really comes alive...

I tend to listen at moderate volume levels, but these babies love to jam out.


----------



## Evshrug

Chicolom,
  I think you said it while sounding much less like an a-hole than me. I was worried I might make things worse, but I felt something had to be said.
   
  SoAmusing,
  My goal was/is not to flame you (which is easier on forums than Xbox), I want you to realize that the length, tone (you often seem to be talking to yourself), and statements that sound like you're claiming to be an expert, are the things that rub me the wrong way. Assumptions and questions aren't so bad, I learn all the time too and I think it's important to be open to change your mind about something which is something you do well too, but in the context of someone who plays games on a console in a dorm or their parent's house that finds this thread and asks "what's a good setup?" then a lot of those things that don't meet your goals MAY be an entirely reasonable setup for them. You know, what if someone observes this thread thinking "I want a good headset" (the main visitor), but they see posts that only $450 headphones plus $200 receivers plus $200 amps, plus a device for chat mixing, they're gonna think we're nuts and there's nothing reasonable for them, and decide to stick with some TB x12's in stereo. But there are lower-budget options for impressive audio, and upgrade paths. Such a guest may not tell from your post and explanations that these are the next steps up for you.
  I will say, in your favor, that you speak with enthusiasm and mostly positively. Neither do you try to hurt other's feelings, which I may have done to you. I apologize for hurt feelings, but I would ask that you continue to mature your posting "style," I don't want to be mean but I thought *you might need examples instead of you just not knowing what some people are reacting to*. I want you to know I'm not saying these things to feel like a "big man" or some sort of bully, I just want change so we can get back to the hobby and focus on that.
   
  BurritoBoy,
  I wasn't challenging you to be wrong, I will read your link and if in general I find out how to use a PC soundcard to play console audio, I'll tell you how. I was referring to the inclusion of an optical-in on sound cards at all, here's the fastest example I found first, from the cheapest Recon3D soundcard. Note the label for optical-in:

  I am not saying I know how to do it and that there may not be some kind of performance hit, but if you consider that the console processors like mixamp and Recon3D USB essentially are external soundcards and work very well processing optical cable fed 5.1, there ought to be a way with a PC soundcard. It just boggles my mind that it isn't working for you and probably others, and shame on Creative and Asus if they can't make it easy as a mixamp or something. I'm not sending you money though, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> QUOTED FOR FUGGIN TRUTH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I've been at my girlfriend's the past three days, I think my Q's miss me and are calling me back home ^__^
  I love my girlfriend and I don't regret any of the time I spend with her (well, MAYBE those last two laps at the gym yesterday), but I don't live here. All the drama will simmer down soon, and we'll get back to da business  I'm gonna go jam out and have some fun


----------



## Impulse

It's possible the drivers won't let you take an optical input and output it however you want (with DH processing etc), even though the card should be capable of it, since they probably include the input for recording purposes more than anything (I imagine). 

Drivers are ultimately the Achilles' heel of most sound cards, even the ones with decent drivers... They're often still a great value if you're in the PC space (despite a vast majority of gamers just opting for built in mobo audio these days, ugh), but you're probably better off with a receiver for console gaming.

A receiver just seems far more practical in general (albeit somewhat more expensive), even if you have a PC sitting in the same room; that is, if you're looking to upgrade past something like the Mixamp. 

Heck, going with HDMI audio output to a receiver seems to be common advise even around PC forums lately; tho it's often overkill IMO (unless you intend to go w/5.1 speakers obviously) , there's so many versatile sound cards and small desk stereo/hp amps...

The market's definitely primed for SC or someone else to fill that niche between a barebones Mixamp and an AV receiver where you're paying for a ton of extra things you don't necessarily need as a gamer or headphone user. Still somewhat of a niche market tho.


----------



## Evshrug

I just read the link in Burritoboy's post (goes to TurtleBeach's support page), and looked up what Creative says about it. Both companies basically said the copyright license doesn't allow sound cards to decode a DD or DTS feed. DDL is what the consoles use... but that seems to be included in the unfriendliness. The all do, however, allow stereo PCM in. The thing I don't understand is _why_, though. There is a thriving business of posting gameplay on youtube. If I wanted to record Xbox audio with the processing, I could plug the headphone out from my standalone processor into the Aux-In/Mic port of a computer and record the 3D sound processing, so it's not like Dolby and DTS are actually protecting anything, just being difficult.
   
  Bah, it's off-topic for the thread, though.
   
  I do agree that a receiver is a versatile and practical choice. Seeing how quite-good receivers from last-year's line can be found for closeout prices around $150 or better if you know where to look, a mixamp-esque device looks less attractive at $130 unless size and portability is an issue. Maybe power draw, too. As it happens, size (and discreteness) was an issue for me, but that's why I got the Recon3D for $70 on sale.
   
  I'm imagining an Astro headphone-theater device right now, something with HDMI switching and a desktop-quality amp, but it still wouldn't be cheaper or significantly more practical than a Denon receiver from eCost.


----------



## Impulse

Are there some lower end Denon's that have Dolby Headphone? I looked up the specs for my lowly AVR-1612 and up thru the recent AVR-19xx series and none seemed to have it, they sport some other unnamed virtual surround for headphone/2 speakers but the specs state explicitly that there's no DH.

I'm just curious really since I don't game at all thru my AVR... I don't even have a clue how capable of a headphone amp it's got, tho I intend to find out now that I have at least one extra pair of headphones that's bound for the living room. If it's awful I guess I'll have to get an O2 or a Magni.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Guys, I'll reply to all this later. Seriously, SORRY FOR THE TROUBLE. My goodness. I do understand where all of you are coming from. I haven't read it all entirely, but thanks. It's kinda hard not to feel like crap, but I guess I brought it on myself. It's just an internet forum, but ugh, memories. Good thing I'm much more positive now. *sighs* Later..


----------



## raband

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Guys, I'll reply to all this later. Seriously, SORRY FOR THE TROUBLE. My goodness. I do understand where all of you are coming from. I haven't read it all entirely, but thanks. It's kinda hard not to feel like crap, but I guess I brought it on myself. It's just an internet forum, but ugh, memories. Good thing I'm much more positive now. *sighs* Later..


 
  Dude, Don't worry yourself too much.
   
  As you said, you're new to the forum stuff.
   
  I've been on a few where someone makes a bit of a rough entrance, only to become well regarded once they feel their way around and get with the vibe/lingo 
   
  If you looked at the posts as more like conversations and respond as you would in a real life chat rather than a text list it maybe a bit easier to follow. By doing that you can also dispense with most of the quoted text and weave the info into your reply and add your own questions/info as well.
   
  e.g.: Girlfriend asks you "Tomorrow are you driving into the city? If you are are you able to swing by the market and grab milk, coffee and something for us for dinner. Mum needs a lift in too. Can you grab the dry cleaning on the way home and let the dog out and the cat in when you get there?
   
  Currently you'd respond by quoting your girlfriend and replying: "Yes, yes, ok, what? Ok, when, goodness lol. Ok, yes, yes."
   
  A better way (for the girlfriend to understand you) may be something more like: "Yep - I'm driving into the city and will grab that stuff. Pasta for dinner?. Will grab mum, what time and where from? Will get the dry cleaning and sort the pets out. Need anything else from town? Ok if I stop in at Bob's for a couple of beers on the way home?"
   
  By going the conversation route of replying you've included all relevant info from the original request (without having to quote it all back so she knows what points you're replying to), given a reply that can be understood even without the person having to know or read the first request, added in some info you're unsure of, invited a reply to the bits you need info on and also managed to score a leave pass for a few beers by being such a devoted boyfriend 
   
  Really hope I don't sound condescending , just trying to help make things a bit easier for you to get your thoughts down in a way that can be used to help others respond etc and also help us to read what you are meaning.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> That's good advice, and thanks for the reply. The thing is that I've read the Ultrasone Pro 900 is kind of muddy compared to the competition, and the DT770 is a bass monster. I have an ear condition that causes bass to sound unpleasant to me, so I'd rather not risk a set that emphasizes bass. The Aurvana Live seems like a good choice, but it might be a bit similar to the headset, and I'm really looking to go in the mid audiophile range. I use a Creative Fatal1ty Headset MKII, which I love, but I'd like to go even higher. I didn't know about the AKG K550 though. I'll consider between that and the A900x.
> 
> I'm also concerned about how these sets will play with CMSS-3D and SBX. First time I heard CMSS-3D with my MKII, I was blown away. It's useful for me not only in FPSes, but in RPG and adventure titles as well. People underestimate how much it helps to be able to hear zombies and wolves come up behind you.
> 
> What's a place with a decent return policy, by the way? I was going to just order from Amazon. I've used them, but have never filed a return, so any advice would be helpful.


 
  +1 for amazon. Even for a Canadian Amazon's return set up is the easiest I have used. 
   
  If bass is an issue for you the CAL isn't going to work any ways. Its bass would probably be to much for you.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news, The Annie LOVES to be played loud. The bass really comes alive...
> 
> I tend to listen at moderate volume levels, but these babies love to jam out.


 
  I have noticed the same thing and I have started to use them on high gain just to get that extra oomph out of them. Do you think maybe they love high current more then everyone originally thought?


----------



## Evshrug

impulse said:


> Are there some lower end Denon's that have Dolby Headphone? I looked up the specs for my lowly AVR-1612 and up thru the recent AVR-19xx series and none seemed to have it, they sport some other unnamed virtual surround for headphone/2 speakers but the specs state explicitly that there's no DH.
> 
> I'm just curious really since I don't game at all thru my AVR... I don't even have a clue how capable of a headphone amp it's got, tho I intend to find out now that I have at least one extra pair of headphones that's bound for the living room. If it's awful I guess I'll have to get an O2 or a Magni.




Yeah, Denon's AVR-791 also says "no" for Dolby Headphone, but confusingly it actually writes the tech into the "headphone surround" field in the spec spreadsheet. I downloaded the manual but it never makes mention of Dolby Headphone or any brand for the "virtual surround" tech used for headphones. Otherwise, it looks like a great receiver: mic to help with volume monitoring and EQ setup, banana plug connectors for all speaker connections, 80 watts for each discreet speaker output, analog video up conversion to HDMI so you only need one cable connecting to the TV, etc. But I can't confirm Dolby Headphone on it.

It's not listed in any of the other current AVRs, either. I think it's not offered on current Harman Kardon or Sherwood receivers anymore either (Didn't check manually to confirm, just google'd). Apparently only Marantz (and some company called Precision or something, listed on Dolby's official page) offers it on their current receivers. That said, if you can find out some discontinued AVRs with DH, they ought to sell for a great price and we'd like to know which models offer it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I just read the link in Burritoboy's post (goes to TurtleBeach's support page), and looked up what Creative says about it. *Both companies basically said the copyright license doesn't allow sound cards to decode a DD or DTS feed. DDL is what the consoles use... but that seems to be included in the unfriendliness*. The all do, however, allow stereo PCM in. The thing I don't understand is _why_, though. There is a thriving business of posting gameplay on youtube. If I wanted to record Xbox audio with the processing, I could plug the headphone out from my standalone processor into the Aux-In/Mic port of a computer and record the 3D sound processing, so it's not like Dolby and DTS are actually protecting anything, just being difficult.


 
   
  This is another thing I keep meaning to address but keep forgetting to. Dolby Digital Live is an encoding process that some devices use (Xbox 360, PS3, etc etc) that converts an audio signal into a Dolby Digital feed. People keep saying they are feeding the Dolby Digital Live signal into their Mixamp or receiver, but you are actually feeding a Dolby Digital signal in.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> I have noticed the same thing and I have started to use them on high gain just to get that extra oomph out of them. Do you think maybe they love high current more then everyone originally thought?



The drivers have always been known to want a lot of power. I habe mentioned this quite a bit. Though the Annie is louder than the older ones due to a better seal due to the pads, the drivers are still as current hungry.

People will be happy with them on lower end setups but shouldn't settle.


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You know, what if someone observes this thread thinking "I want a good headset" (the main visitor), but they see posts that only $450 headphones plus $200 receivers plus $200 amps, plus a device for chat mixing, they're gonna think we're nuts and there's nothing reasonable for them, and decide to stick with some TB x12's in stereo.


 
  Indeed so... you all are crazy. I kid, I kid. I'm here because I want to spend a lot of money on a setup. However, just a good sound card, internal op-amp, and headphone setup. While I'll be using it for music, my top priority is positional audio accuracy. From the advice I've been given, it's between the AKG K-551 and the Audio Technica ATH-A900x. What do you guys think about a Sound Blaster ZxR, and what kind of op-amp would be good for it?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well, I just bought Asus Xonar U3 for my laptop. Amazon (or more specifically Asus) is doing a $10 rebate program on the item so I figured why not? I also bought Bayonetta for my PS3 for $20 and change. Did that guy ever figure out how to use the U3 for 3D sound? At any rate I'm going to find out soon.
   
  On the other hand I also bought a bunch of cables from monoprice.com. They charged me almost $10 for UPS ground shipping which I thought was indignant but nobody else seemed to be selling the cables I needed (at least on internet). Being a reputable company, I also get support in case something doesn't work, which is what we should always look for when buying electronics (or everything else for that matter).
   
  I bought a long ass ethernet cable 100 ft which is honestly probably more than what I need, but like they say, _mejor que sobre y no que falte_. I'm finally going to be able to plug in my PS3 for some decent download speeds...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tambien necessito un cable largo para el PS3, porque el hodio wireless es muy lento. :rolleyes:

I got a 20mbps connection which should be decent, but the PS3's wireless capabilities sucks. It takes a hotdamn eternity to download stuff from PSN. At least my connection is good for gaming. I'm constantly the host in MW2 and BLOPS.

My router has gigabyt ports, so that should be beneficial. Just... running a cable from my room to the living room seems like overkill.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I think I would have been fine with the 75ft cable, but when in doubt, "get the cable that is 25ft longer," I always say... well not really but the former may have been too close a fit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have a huge home, my friend.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

lawl, not really, I just have to circumvent the living room, so I will have to travel up, down, east, west, etc. along the walls of the apartment. I'm not going to have a wire running along the floor that people can kick and possibly tumble over my PS3.


----------



## Impulse

roger de ceiba said:


> On the other hand I also bought a bunch of cables from monoprice.com. They charged me almost $10 for UPS ground shipping which I thought was indignant but nobody else seemed to be selling the cables I needed (at least on internet). Being a reputable company, I also get support in case something doesn't work, which is what we should always look for when buying electronics (or everything else for that matter).
> 
> I bought a long ass ethernet cable 100 ft which is honestly probably more than what I need, but like they say, _mejor que sobre y no que falte_. I'm finally going to be able to plug in my PS3 for some decent download speeds...




Huh, and here I thought their usual shipping cost to Puerto Rico was a bit high... Guess it's actually about standard for them. Their prices are so low tho (and stuff ships out so fast) that even with the shipping cost most things usually end up being cheaper there regardless.

They've got pretty good service too, last year I ordered two long Displayport cables and after a couple of weeks it looked like the order was lost, so I called in and they resent it with two day shipping. Turns out both packages showed up on the same day, and when I called again they told me I could just keep the extra cables.




mad lust envy said:


> My router has gigabyt ports, so that should be beneficial. Just... running a cable from my room to the living room seems like overkill.




It's totally worth it IMO, you can then get a small gigabit switch the size of Whopper (they're like $35) and hook it up at the end of the cable so you can hook up multiple devices via gigabit in the same room, speed up transfers/streaming between them etc.

Since homes are built out of concrete over here and I didn't wanna run mine thru the outside I just used those removable wall clips and hung it near the ceiling (runs past another bedroom and a bathroom), it's hardly visible. Also allowed me to move the router closer to the living room rather than having it in a central spot that wasn't optimal for either room.

Now if there's a WAF or GAF to contend with, that's another story.


----------



## Rebel975

I have a 100' cable going from the modem/router (living room) along the ceiling and up the stairs (using those removable wall clips) to a 4 port gigabit switch in my game room. Screw wireless. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 The GAF was easy to get around by just letting her put flowers and such on the cable. lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't believe I didn't realize it sooner...

The SLYR has a stupidly similar aesthetic design as the new Urban Denons. Coincidence?

 

Even the profile seems similar to the other Denon...






Down to the duck bill at the bottom of the cup, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

Erik/Burrito,
Glad to give you the reminder, I guess?




roger de ceiba said:


> Well, I just bought Asus Xonar U3 for my laptop. Amazon (or more specifically Asus) is doing a $10 rebate program on the item so I figured why not? I also bought Bayonetta for my PS3 for $20 and change. Did that guy ever figure out how to use the U3 for 3D sound?...
> 
> On the other hand I also bought a bunch of cables from monoprice.com. They charged me almost $10 for UPS...
> 
> I bought a long ass ethernet cable 100 ft which is honestly probably more than what I need, but like they say, _mejor que sobre y no que falte_. I'm finally going to be able to plug in my PS3 for some decent download speeds...




Am I "that guy," or somebody more qualified than me? I don't know how to get surround (it would just be 2D, there's forward/back but sadly no up/down) with a U3 from a PS3, unless it works just by plugging it into a USB port. Haven't tried it, but good luck man! Wouldn't it be weird if it just tried to make the chat audio into surround? 0.o I always wanted Bayonetta, if the urge to get DMC (the new reboot) becomes too strong I'll deflect it by joining you in hair-clothes gaming action 

100' of Ethernet cable will be pretty heavy... Shipping price seems fair to me. I had a 25' Ethernet cable run around my living room, up over a dresser, out into the hall, up the stairs, and into our router/modem, and I STILL had slack. I think, with 100', I could run a cable from my basement to the _neighbor's_ router, lol. [I'm just jealous your house is so big]

I never understood why people want a 300mbps wireless or 1gbps Ethernet connection to their router, when all that awesome bandwidth will be bottlenecked by a 20 Mbps "high speed" Internet. What's my bandwidth performing at now anyway? [Edit: weaksauce, it's 1:30am and we only have 12 mbps, tested twice. why did we pay extra to upgrade from 15 to 20mbps if i cant get even 15 in the middle of the night?] Now I do believe a better wifi signal and a better router help saturate a connection and work more efficiently (making it more likely to get host), and a wired connection is less finicky.
------

Mad,
Duck face! ^^3
But yeah, I see a resemblance. Winter 2013 fashion trend or a repeat of the Denon/Creative shared design? I doubt they sound the same, but I dunno.

You could go to speedtest.net and measure your connection, but most likely either your PS3 has a weak wi-fi connection like you said, or PSN just doesn't have very fast servers.
-------

Impulse,
You make me hungry. DAMN YOU! I worked the crap outta myself at the gym and a whopper sounds like a delicious setback. Thank goodness I probably wouldn't make it to a BK before they close in 20 mins.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Dude, I live in an apartment, it's not that big. Now that I think about it I would have been fine with 75 ft and would still had some left over. I never really measured (could never find a damn tape), just eyeballed it, really. Oh well.
   
  And by the way, the Xonar isn't for PS3, it is for my laptop...
   
  I'm thinking of returning the 100 ft cable and buying the 75 ft... Originally I was going to buy the both. I didn't know returns were as easy as they claim in their site (I thought I would pay to send it back). I guess this means I could place the PS3 pretty much anywhere in my room, which is good because I'm always moving furniture...
   
  Oh for the love of... looking over my monoprice order I just realized I asked for a 2.5mm to 2 rca as opposed to the 3.5mm. Now I'm definitely sending these that order back. Shake my head. I need some sleep. That's it, no more hanging out in internet forums at 2 am in the morning.


----------



## Evshrug

RdC,
Dude *claps you on the shoulder* it's ok. You can always cut it down into several Ethernet cables if you know how, or in a worst case scenario you can knot it up to fashion a fire escape ladder/rope. You also now have basically a 100' measuring tape. Please post a picture when it arrives?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I'll wrangle bulls with the excess wire.


----------



## Evshrug

I didn't know my mom was in NY? Oh wait, she's going up this weekend for a dancing competition.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I don't know how to respond to that.
   
  So here's a picture of a kitteh.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  I lied.


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


>


 
   
  ...What...


----------



## Evshrug

^It's a Bungie thing. I don't think the poster is for real. They do have a dog's head in a jar with formaldehyde preservative though, long story involving a med-student roommate in the early days of Bungie.

It is sorta gaming-related...


----------



## Hailin

So it is going to be a pricey week for me but I think I deserve it.
   
  I just bought D1+ with the full upgrade. I am hoping to use it flat out but if I have to I will pair it with my E9 for my K702 Anniversary and my soon to order HE400. Not sure if I need the E9 at all with both headphones but the added warmth of the tube upgrade will hopefully be a nice pairing for both headphones.
   
  I really wanted the compass 2 but that websites ordering procedure really really really annoys the hell out of me. Kingwa though from his posts seems like a hell of a good guy. If I don't like the sound of the D1 then I will be putting it up on for sale forums in Canada and order the compass 2. Already have to setup my paypal again so I can move the HM5s and 668B from my inventory. I have a feeling the Annies and HE400 will be all I need. (X1s maybe down the road.)
   
  I can report back the difference of the E09K/E17 and D1+ if anyone cares. My source will be a realtek onboard/mixamp so your opinions may vary from mine.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





murder mike said:


> I should have my Annies + NFB 11.32 by the end of next week. (Thanks MLE) Am I correct in saying that all I would need for Dolby Headphone would be a Xonar DG or DGX?


 
  Could anyone give some insight on this?


----------



## NamelessPFG

I've got some new toys today! (No, I didn't take the image upside-down; blame Dropbox wanting to rotate my pictures for NO reason.)
   
  Not pictured is the capture card I've been waiting on, which coincidentally arrived today; I'll be sure to put that through its paces soon, with my various consoles (but mainly the PS3).
   
  First impressions with the HE-400 itself are that it's very well-built and FEELS like you'd expect of a $400 headphone, it's a lot lighter than I was expecting, and it also clamps a bit less than expected...but I would have liked some slightly bigger cups or earpads, as the top and bottom of my earlobe does noticeably touch the pads, which doesn't happen with a Stax Lambda's noticeably taller earcups. Overall, good marks for comfort.
   
  For sound presentation, the mids don't sound painfully recessed to me like I feared from some other people's impressions. Bass and treble notes are a bit more prominent than vocals, though, in contrast to the SR-Lambda's "vocals first" sort of presentation.
   
  Soundstage is noticeably less "airy" and vast than a typical Lambda, but still pretty good. To be fair, the Lambda line bests even the AD700 for soundstaging in my experience, which is no small feat.
   
  Sense of clarity seems pretty good thus far, with voices coming in mostly unobstructed and treble having some "sparkle" if it's called for. I guess that's something planar driver structures tend to excel at in general, whether driven with magnetic or electrostatic force.
   
  (Also, there were TWO sets of velour pads for some reason. Just goes to show how much MLE loves velour pads!)
   
  The ODAC is also surprisingly small. I've seen 15-stick packs of gum bigger than this thing. Definitely a good choice for portable use. I'll get to testing that later, after I've familiarized myself with the HE-400's sound presentation.


----------



## mild555

@MLE  The K702 ANV reviews haven't up yet? Really anticipate it.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> I never understood why people want a 300mbps wireless or 1gbps Ethernet connection to their router, when all that awesome bandwidth will be bottlenecked by a 20 Mbps "high speed" Internet. What's my bandwidth performing at now anyway? [Edit: weaksauce, it's 1:30am and we only have 12 mbps, tested twice. why did we pay extra to upgrade from 15 to 20mbps if i cant get even 15 in the middle of the night?] Now I do believe a better wifi signal and a better router help saturate a connection and work more efficiently (making it more likely to get host), and a wired connection is less finicky.
> ------
> Impulse,
> You make me hungry. DAMN YOU! I worked the crap outta myself at the gym and a whopper sounds like a delicious setback. Thank goodness I probably wouldn't make it to a BK before they close in 20 mins.




In my house a wireless signal is simply not strong when it has to get past three or four concrete walls to reach certain rooms, throughput is under 10mbps at the farthest rooms...

Plus it's just convenient for PC to PC transfers. USB 3.0 is faster but not every PC here is that recent, and USB 3.0 flash drives top out at like 200/100 MB/s read/write anyway (plus the duality of waiting for it to finish writing at one system before reading it on the next).

I wish the next step up after Gigabit Ethernet was more affordable, it's been years now. 

Also, the BK closest to me is open 24/7... I think it's because they're near a BK warehouse and they open late for the workers' benefit. I'm not particularly big on BK but I end up eating there often just because of the hours... It's really not good for my waistline.


----------



## Impulse

murder mike said:


> Could anyone give some insight on this?




Yes... Those two will do DH, not sure what else you're looking to figure out (ask away tho).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


>


 
   
  I just quoted that so you would see this, but I wanted to thank you for getting me into Electrostats/Electrets. I got my first pair of electret headphones the other day, Numark ES-701. I am amazed at the sound quality so far. I've been and am currently looking for a nice Lambda or LNS, but these are filling the gap in the meantime.
   
  Thanks!
  -Erik


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I just quoted that so you would see this, but I wanted to thank you for getting me into Electrostats/Electrets. I got my first pair of electret headphones the other day, Numark ES-701. I am amazed at the sound quality so far. I've been and am currently looking for a nice Lambda or LNS, but these are filling the gap in the meantime.
> 
> Thanks!
> -Erik


 
   
  You're welcome. I think a lot of the vintage electret and electrostatic models tend to be underlooked for some reason.
   
  I haven't heard the ES-701 specifically, let alone any of the numerous other electrets and electrostatic models released around the 1970s or so (Stax did a lot of OEM work back then), but going by how pleased you are, it doesn't seem half-bad at all. Might be a nice affordable alternative to the more expensive Lambdas.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Yes... Those two will do DH, not sure what else you're looking to figure out (ask away tho).


 
  I just wanted confirmation that those would be able to provide DH at a reasonable price that I could hook up to my DAC/Amp. Thanks.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I think a lot of the *vintage *_electret _and _electrostatic _models tend to be _underlooked _for some reason.


 
   
  You sort of answered your own question in the same sentence...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  I'm not sure Best Buy has a vintage electrostatic demo area...
   
  BTW, what are those green things on your Stax pads?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

murder mike said:


> Could anyone give some insight on this?




AGH... umm, the NFB-11.32 does NOT have an analog in, so you can't hook it up to the soundcard's headphone jack or anything that's not digital. That is why I specifically mentioned that if you need an analog in, you need the Compass 2, or SA-31 instead. 

Find out which soundcard allows Dolby Headphone through the digital out. I think Purple Angel knows.

I wanna know too for future reference.


----------



## gfunk4698844

Hey Envy, have you had a chance to try the Denon D7100s?  What's your opinion about these for gaming?  I know you fully endorsed the D7000s, but the 7100s are a bit different.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, and I doubt I ever will. I'm literally done with leather/pleather padded headphones. Unless I were to get them on loan, there's 0% chance of me trying them.

As for those interested in the Annie review, sorry, I sent in the Mixamp 5.8, so I couldn't get final impressions. My receiver gets here on Friday, so wait just a little longer. I CAN start writing the review, as I have the gist of everything I'm gonna say, but I want final confirmation about my opinion before I post it.


----------



## Impulse

Hmm, the DG/DGX won't do DH over digital?

Looking forward to the Annie review.


----------



## NamelessPFG

chicolom said:


> You sort of answered your own question in the same sentence...
> I'm not sure Best Buy has a vintage electrostatic demo area...
> 
> BTW, what are those green things on your Stax pads?



I figured as much regarding vintage...well, anything. But I don't see Best Buy as the place that would stock headphones other than Bose and Beats, anyway. Certainly no HE-400s, let alone current Stax products (if for no other reason than Yama's/STAX USA being a lousy distributor).

The green things are strips of soft cloth that the prior owner taped to the earpads. It feels very nice, certainly less itchy than some varieties of velour pads. I'm sure MLE would approve of the feel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nice.

Impulse, I don't think almost any soundcards do DH over digital. I believe there are some Creative soundcards that do CMSS-3D over digital. I'm definitely not the one to ask.

For a long time, I *thought* Dolby Headphone was directly tied to the amplification circuit, which is why they didn't do it over digital.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mild555 said:


> @MLE  The K702 ANV reviews haven't up yet? Really anticipate it.


 
   
  I'd say read the Q701 review and add "more bass" and "warmer" "more comfortable" and you're getting pretty close...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'd say read the Q701 review and add "more bass" and "warmer" and you're getting pretty close...


 
   
  From what I've been reading, you can also bump up the comfort a bit. People are really into those new memory foam pads. And many are happy with the removal of the bumps from the band, though I personally have never had an issue with them. I know you personally are not a fan of the bulges.


----------



## chicolom

OMG!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The mailman brought a surprise today 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Just look at the packaging!  It screams "high-end," "premium," and "luxury."  As soon as I picked up the crumpled manilla bubble envelope I could feel the incredible build quality held within.
   
  Stay tuned for first impressions!...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> From what I've been reading, you can also bump up the *comfort *a bit. People are really into those new memory foam pads. And many are happy with the removal of the bumps from the band, though I personally have never had an issue with them. I know you personally are not a fan of the bulges.


 
   
  -Fixed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, its gonna be an 8, 9.5. Basically DT880 bass, hd650 mids, q701 treble and soundstage, warmth between the HD650 and Q701. 9.5 In comfort.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Nameless, one question about your lambdas. How is the sound isolation on them. I tried using my electrets for gaming, but my mic picks up almost every sound, lol.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nice stuff there Chico. What ratings you expecting?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nice stuff there Chico. What ratings you expecting?


 
   
  It's still to early to say, but I expect it to be among the best options in the $.0 - $2 price bracket, possibly even THE best option in that price range...
   
  Don't let the $2 price fool you though, because they _demand _that you also invest in a good source on amp for them to really sound their best.  Don't expect to get them near their full potential without spending another $400 on a decent DAC and AMP, plus $50-$75 in decent cables.


----------



## Impulse

namelesspfg said:


> I figured as much regarding vintage...well, anything. But I don't see Best Buy as the place that would stock headphones other than Bose and Beats, anyway. Certainly no HE-400s, let alone current Stax products (if for no other reason than Yama's/STAX USA being a lousy distributor).




Magnolia Best Buys actually stock higher end Sennheiser, AKG, AT, etc stuff. Shame there's none near me, regular Best Buys have some low end Senn stuff but it's mostly Bose, Beats, Skullcandy, and the like (tho SC now has some decent stuff); Koss, Aiaiai, Philips, and Pioneer too tho they don't get the prominent shelf displays that the first three do.

Shopping for higher end full size headphones if you don't live in a big city is just a PITA... I bought my Beyers almost blindly because any high end stuff I've tested was basically what friends or family had, so few points of comparison. Not like there's any meets or show I can drive to in this island. At least the M-80 I got to try at a Rat Shack, portable hp are easier to come by.

I hate buying stuff from Amazon just to try it as a a lot of people seem to do, despite their liberal return policy, so if I get something to try it's usually with the intention of gifting it later or selling it (if not keeping it), unless it's just awful.


----------



## Johnsonr520

How does anyone else feel about the sennheiser hd558s for gaming? I am only in stereo right now till I have money for a mix amp, but the clarity and positioning between them and my turtle beaches is basically night and day, it is amazing.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It's still to early to say, but I expect it to be among the best options in the $.0 - $2 price bracket, possibly even THE best option in that price range...
> 
> Don't let the $2 price fool you though, because they _demand _that you also invest in a good source on amp for them to really sound their best.  Don't expect to get them near their full potential without spending another $400 on a decent DAC and AMP, plus $50-$75 in decent cables.


 
  Surely they went overboard with the included extras though. I'd have much rather they shipped with just the single set of pads, and used the money saved on the second set towards upgrading the source/transport as you mentioned.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





raband said:


> Surely they went overboard with the included extras though. I'd have much rather they shipped with just the single set of pads, and used the money saved on the second set towards upgrading the source/transport as you mentioned.


 
   
  Honestly at this level I would be disappointed if they _didn't_ come with extra pads.  I expect it at this price. 
   
  And it's a good thing they included a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter.  I mean who really is going to use these on anything other than high quality 1/4" jack from a dedicated headphone amplifier?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote:  





> AGH... umm, the NFB-11.32 does NOT have an analog in, so you can't hook it up to the soundcard's headphone jack or anything that's not digital. That is why I specifically mentioned that if you need an analog in, you need the Compass 2, or SA-31 instead.
> 
> Find out which soundcard allows Dolby Headphone through the digital out. I think Purple Angel knows.
> 
> I wanna know too for future reference.


 
  I looked around some more and found this page.The dude there says you can do DH over the SPDIF out on the DG/DGX so it should be fine. I'll pick one up next week and do some testing to be sure.


----------



## Impulse

johnsonr520 said:


> How does anyone else feel about the sennheiser hd558s for gaming? I am only in stereo right now till I have money for a mix amp, but the clarity and positioning between them and my turtle beaches is basically night and day, it is amazing.




Should be pretty solid, I've seen a lot of people recommend one particular mod to improve clarity (removing some tape/felt that makes it sound closer to the 598) but I've only heard them stock, YMMV. I've seen the 558 as low as $100 on Amazon (used, but that often includes barely touched returns), I think they'd be hard to beat at that price or anything approaching it.




murder mike said:


> I looked around some more and found this page.The dude there says you can do DH over the SPDIF out on the DG/DGX so it should be fine. I'll pick one up next week and do some testing to be sure.




Huh, be sure to let us know how it works out. I think I actually remember reading of other issues with SPDIF out (related to gaming and surround speaker setups), but I had no clue about DH. I'd give it a shot on my STX but the thought of moving the PC or receiver is ugh, and it might very well work differently anyway.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll probably settle for a little less. I need that receiver.
> 
> Nvm, I bought it... Lol...
> 
> ...


 
  Can a receiver like this be used instead of say an astro mix amp to get dolby to your headphones? And if so, how would using a mic work?


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> How does anyone else feel about the sennheiser hd558s for gaming? I am only in stereo right now till I have money for a mix amp, but the clarity and positioning between them and my turtle beaches is basically night and day, it is amazing.




I think Mad reviewed them in his guide, first page. At any rate he has repeatedly posted that he preferred them over the HD598, I think because the model you have sounded more balanced or bassy.

To your second question, HDMI or optical to the receiver with your console sending 5.1 audio, and it will emulate surround sound for headphones like a mixamp would. Most brands have some sort of surround virtualization processing for headphones, but Dolby Headphone brand processing is really rare now, you're most likely to find it on Maranatz or old receivers.
You have to enable a mic separately though. Are you using an Xbox or PS3? For Xbox, you go to the guide, preferences, voice, select to play chat through "speakers," then chat audio will play through your headphones and you can just plug a mic into the controller's headphone port. I imagine the PS3 process is similar, except you plug in a USB mic. Do ps3 gamers even like talking to eachother? I rarely see anyone in Xbox game chat anymore unless they are trash talking or they left their Kinect mic in.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I think Mad reviewed them in his guide, first page. At any rate he has repeatedly posted that he preferred them over the HD598, I think because the model you have sounded more balanced or bassy.


 
  Nah, in the first page he reviewed the hd598. Sometimes though, for competitive gaming they can be a bit bassy, but that is easily fixed with a little eq. I just can't wait to get surround sound, but the college life is hard for an audiophile : /


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Nameless, one question about your lambdas. How is the sound isolation on them. I tried using my electrets for gaming, but my mic picks up almost every sound, lol.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Isolation? What isolation?
   
  That said, I don't seem to have any issues with voice-chatting with people while using open-back headphones like the Lambda. At the very least, I'm not getting any echo complaints from who I'm talking to.
   
  It may be because I'm using a cheap desk mic in the meantime, and not a clip-on mic or a ModMic.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Magnolia Best Buys actually stock higher end Sennheiser, AKG, AT, etc stuff. Shame there's none near me, regular Best Buys have some low end Senn stuff but it's mostly Bose, Beats, Skullcandy, and the like (tho SC now has some decent stuff); Koss, Aiaiai, Philips, and Pioneer too tho they don't get the prominent shelf displays that the first three do.
> 
> Shopping for higher end full size headphones if you don't live in a big city is just a PITA... I bought my Beyers almost blindly because any high end stuff I've tested was basically what friends or family had, so few points of comparison. Not like there's any meets or show I can drive to in this island. At least the M-80 I got to try at a Rat Shack, portable hp are easier to come by.
> 
> I hate buying stuff from Amazon just to try it as a a lot of people seem to do, despite their liberal return policy, so if I get something to try it's usually with the intention of gifting it later or selling it (if not keeping it), unless it's just awful.


 
   
  Magnolia Best Buys? Never heard of that store variant. Doesn't help that I live about an hour or two's worth of driving northeast from Atlanta, in a city that gets mistaken for another state's big city by name and doesn't show up on most maps unless you zoom in real close.
   
  Buying blindly is indeed very risky with something like headphones, where you won't know if you'll like the sound signature or the comfort/fit without first-hand experience...but at least for me, it paid off with that SR-Lambda, big time. (On the flip side, it didn't pay off nearly as much with the SR-202. Just goes to show how even similar-looking headphones don't sound similar at all.)


----------



## Impulse

Yeah, that's what they call their Best Buys that stock high end home theater gear (and headphones), they've got a landing page for looking them up specifically etc. Apparently they're fairly common in urban areas (or Orlando has an abnormal amount of them when I last looked), tho I don't remember ever seeing one (let alone being in one) when I've visited friends and family stateside.

I've been satisfied with my DT 880 despite going in blind, but I've got that itch to buy something different to try and A/B it directly on my own gear y'know.


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> Nah, in the first page he reviewed the hd598. Sometimes though, for competitive gaming they can be a bit bassy, but that is easily fixed with a little eq. I just can't wait to get surround sound, but the college life is hard for an audiophile : /



If you want surround on the cheap, I know two options. You can get a used Turtle Beach DSS (the first one uses Dolby Headphone) for about $35 used on eBay, it works ok but has a bit of background hiss. Option two is the Recon3D USB processor, which is what I use. It uses THX TruStudio Pro from Creative's sound blaster PC cards instead of DH, has no discernible background hiss, an adapter/extension cable to use any 3.5mm mic (like a $2 lapel mic) or headset, adjustable sound settings, and also connects to a PC through USB to act as an external sound card. I like the THX processing better than DH, but Mad prefers DH, and NamelessPFG prefers CMSS-3D; Your Milage May Vary. They usually sell for $90, but NamlessPFG is selling his for $70.

Here's mine, I use it with my Mac & Xbox 360:


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you want surround on the cheap, I know two options. You can get a used Turtle Beach DSS (the first one uses Dolby Headphone) for about $35 used on eBay, it works ok but has a bit of background hiss. Option two is the Recon3D USB processor, which is what I use. It uses THX TruStudio Pro from Creative's sound blaster PC cards instead of DH, has no discernible background hiss, an adapter/extension cable to use any 3.5mm mic (like a $2 lapel mic) or headset, adjustable sound settings, and also connects to a PC through USB to act as an external sound card. I like the THX processing better than DH, but Mad prefers DH, and NamelessPFG prefers CMSS-3D; Your Milage May Vary. They usually sell for $90, but NamlessPFG is selling his for $70.
> 
> Here's mine, I use it with my Mac & Xbox 360:


 
  So many decisions! lol I shouldve known what I was getting myself into with this headphone addiction. But if anyone wants mod work or cables made in trade for any mixamps let me know! And I found the turtle beach for 25 on ebay. Is it worth it for now until I get a more expensive one?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> And I found the turtle beach for 25 on ebay. Is it worth it for now until I get a more expensive one?


 
   
  Yeah that's a good deal for the DSS.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Isolation? What isolation?
> *Evshrug: LoL*
> 
> That said, I don't seem to have any issues with voice-chatting with people while using open-back headphones like the Lambda. At the very least, I'm not getting any echo complaints from who I'm talking to. It may be because I'm using a cheap desk mic in the meantime, and not a clip-on mic or a ModMic.
> ...




Can you use USB mics with PS3 consoles?
Big Best Buys have a Magnolia section in them, in the back by the TVs. It's walled off with their more expensive loudspeakers setup inside for demoing. The one near me (south hills Pittsburgh) has an expanded headphone section next to them, with 3 audiophile headphones: ATH-A900x, Senn HD 558, and AKG K550. Still not the biggest high-end selection and the employees won't let you demo them without buying first, but more than most stores. V-MODA's are strangely absent, though a few models are at RadioShack (and some nitwit broke them, dunno why you would do that. Like programming viruses just to mess up someone's day, I guess).


----------



## ruuku

johnsonr520 said:


> Can a receiver like this be used instead of say an astro mix amp to get dolby to your headphones? And if so, how would using a mic work?




Depends on the system. For Xbox you can use the steelseries "puck" adapter for the mic in on the controller, or simply any mic with a 2.5mm connection. For PS3 a simple usb type sound card (with an input jack) has been used.


evshrug said:


> Can you use USB mics with PS3 consoles?
> .



Probably depends on the drivers for each specific mic. A simple (cheap) usb mic like the one that comes with rockband will work for chat, but I'm not too sure about more complicated/expensive ones. It probably more or less depends on if the PS3 will recognize the device more than anything else.


----------



## ruuku

dbl. post... sorry


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> Depends on the system. For Xbox you can use the steelseries "puck" adapter for the mic in on the controller, or simply any mic with a 2.5mm connection. For PS3 a simple usb type sound card (with an input jack) has been used.



Oooooooh, so could you use the Xonar U3 with a PS3?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Can you use USB mics with PS3 consoles?
> Big Best Buys have a Magnolia section in them, in the back by the TVs. It's walled off with their more expensive loudspeakers setup inside for demoing. The one near me (south hills Pittsburgh) has an expanded headphone section next to them, with 3 audiophile headphones: ATH-A900x, Senn HD 558, and AKG K550. Still not the biggest high-end selection and the employees won't let you demo them without buying first, but more than most stores. V-MODA's are strangely absent, though a few models are at RadioShack (and some nitwit broke them, dunno why you would do that. Like programming viruses just to mess up someone's day, I guess).


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Oooooooh, so could you use the Xonar U3 with a PS3?


 
   
  "Yes" to the PS3 questions, so long as the audio devices are plug-and-play in the "would offer basic playback/recording without drivers on a PC" sense. I'm actually using some of my cheap USB audio devices I have lying around (not the Recon3D USB) to handle mic input, and just routing voice chat through the primary output, meaning it goes through my SU-DH1. I may not be able to adjust the game/voice audio balance on-the-fly (which I couldn't do with the Recon3D USB anyway), but at least they're mixed into the same output stream.
   
  Shame that the Magnolia section won't let you demo anything without buying first; it defeats the purpose of demonstrating a product to me. You demonstrate to sell the product, not the other way around.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The one near me (south hills Pittsburgh) has an expanded headphone section next to them, with 3 audiophile headphones: ATH-A900x, Senn HD 558, and AKG K550. Still not the biggest high-end selection and *the employees won't let you demo them without buying first*, but more than most stores.


 
   
  lol Wut?
   
  Wouldn't that defeat the point of _demo-ing _something.


----------



## Johnsonr520

I just bought the dx mini clip on mic mentioned in this thread. Will that just connect to the xbox controller with a 2.5mm to 3.5 mm adaptor or do i need something special?


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> lol Wut?
> 
> Wouldn't that defeat the point of _demo-ing_ something.


Yeah, I was scratching my head, the employee was basically telling me I could buy them and return if I didn't like them. I don't know if they have a restocking fee, but the whole thing sounded dumb. I thought I read somewhere, like on a brochure or sign, that customers could demo the higher end headphones, so I was doubly feeling ,':/

Johnsonr520,
I think any adapter will do, mine is just a cheap thingy since I don't need the Recon3D's extension cable:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ps3 wont allow a usb device to output sound, so no u3 fwir. Mics, yes. Game audio, no.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You have to enable a mic separately though. Are you using an Xbox or PS3? For Xbox, you go to the guide, preferences, voice, select to play chat through "speakers," then chat audio will play through your headphones and you can just plug a mic into the controller's headphone port. I imagine the PS3 process is similar, except you plug in a USB mic. Do ps3 gamers even like talking to eachother? I rarely see anyone in Xbox game chat anymore unless they are trash talking or they left their Kinect mic in.


 
   
  Doing that for me makes the voices sound more recessed and not as clear, plus it is easier to adjust the volume with a mixer like the SLYR's. I scored a cheap NIB Sennheiser x320 on ebay, cut off the headset (which sounded surprisingly open), and modified the mixers cable to accept any headphone with a 4 pole 3.5mm jack.
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Isolation? What isolation?
> 
> That said, I don't seem to have any issues with voice-chatting with people while using open-back headphones like the Lambda. At the very least, I'm not getting any echo complaints from who I'm talking to.
> 
> It may be because I'm using a cheap desk mic in the meantime, and not a clip-on mic or a ModMic.


 
   
  Is the isolation part sarcastic? Can't tell.
   
  I didn't think it was going to be a problem, but every gun shot my mic indicator lit up  And I don't really crank the volume.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## ruuku

Edit:Nameless has a far clearer understanding of the workings of a PS3 so I'll bow out here. ..

While I have this post up anyway, I'd like to ask some of the veterans of this thread a question... Has there been any comparisons between the Labtec and the ModMic? I got tired of waiting and went ahead and ordered a version 2. The fact that I play without too much ambient noise and the V2 was described as having a "richer" tone made me pull the trigger. The modmic video( http://www.modmic.com/blogs/news/7204210-first-looks-at-the-3-0 )clearly demonstrates the noise cancelling feature of the V3 so if you're worried about isolation (in terms of having game audio reverbed into chat) that would be the one to get. I'll do a quick write up after I play with em for a day or two.


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> Doing that for me makes the voices sound more recessed and not as clear, plus it is easier to adjust the volume with a mixer like the SLYR's. I scored a cheap NIB Sennheiser x320 on ebay, cut off the headset (which sounded surprisingly open), and modified the mixers cable to accept any headphone with a 4 pole 3.5mm jack.



My mod skills are weak, is the SLYR's mixer or steel series puck available for individual purchase? Chat voices don't sound any less clear than when using the regular setup of speakers and a chat headset, though I have my chat volume set at 100% and game volume to duck a little bit when someone speaks. The main problem is my one friend's turtle beaches are too sensitive, it always sounds like he's yelling relative to everyone else and I can hear his girlfriend cooking and the game audio from the headphones, meanwhile there are days where they tell me I'm too quiet (though I speak quiet to keep from waking my mom, wish my idea of boosting my chat vol using the FiiO e5 had worked).




burritoboy9984 said:


> Is the isolation part sarcastic? Can't tell.
> 
> I didn't think it was going to be a problem, but every gun shot my mic indicator lit up  And I don't really crank the volume.
> 
> Thanks!



Are you shooting a real gun? O_O
Probably is loud enough to be picked up by any mic that works with voices...


----------



## Impulse

I've only compared my v1 ModMic against a Zalman, I thought the latter was decent but the MM actually works much better...

I'm curious about their v2/v3 mics, not quite sure which would suit me better, tho I'll probably wait until they've got some of the muting mic in stock. It looks like their prices are going up slightly, but having a muting function would justify getting a new one IMO.

If/when I get one of those I could take a stab at comparing it against a Labtec (and the Zalman), those are pretty cheap no?

I could post some recordings; I remember hearing recordings for the Zalman, the MM, and even a fancy USB mic before I got the MM, and the MM actually sounded the most natural. Kinda sold me on the ModMic.


----------



## calpis

I plugged my Xonar U1 into my PS3, got mic working and chat audio out to my headset. The game audio went out to my speakers. So yeah, plugging in a usb sound card into the PS3's USB port will ONLY give you chat capabilities.
   
  The only usb devices that can send game audio out to a headset are the Sony Wireless headsets that were made specifically for the PS3.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Just bought the turtle beach DSS! Yay to no more stereo gaming! lol


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The ps3 wont allow a usb device to output sound, so no u3 fwir. Mics, yes. Game audio, no.


 
   
  It'll output voice chat for any USB device, but the only USB audio device it'll output game audio for would be Sony's own PS3 headsets.
   
  (They technically work on PCs, but you don't get virtual surround at all. I suspect that Sony set up the PS3 firmware to check for those headsets' USB dongles specifically before allowing any game audio to be output, either stereo or mixed in virtual 7.1 by the PS3 itself before being piped through the wireless transceiver, at the user's discretion.)
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Is the isolation part sarcastic? Can't tell.
> 
> I didn't think it was going to be a problem, but every gun shot my mic indicator lit up  And I don't really crank the volume.
> 
> Thanks!


 
   
  "X? What X?" is a common expression to indicate that X doesn't really exist. In this case, a typical Stax Lambda is about as open as it gets: sound leaks in, sound leaks out (especially due to the dipole nature of any planar driver).
   
  Strangely enough, though, this doesn't cause sound echoing issues for the other people I play with, while those same people can still hear my voice pretty clearly.


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> "X? What X?" is a common expression to indicate that X doesn't really exist. In this case, a typical Stax Lambda is about as open as it gets: sound leaks in, sound leaks out (especially due to the dipole nature of any planar driver).
> 
> Strangely enough, though, this doesn't cause sound echoing issues for the other people I play with, while those same people can still hear my voice pretty clearly.




That is how I assumed you meant it, just wanted to make sure.

Thanks
-Erik


----------



## jazh23

Hi, how about the beyerdynamic DT 235 for gaming?


----------



## CPhoenix

Would you guys say the Astro Mixamp Pro or Mixamp 5.8 is a significant improvement over the Turtle Beach DSS?  Enough to justify the extra cost?


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





cphoenix said:


> Would you guys say the Astro Mixamp Pro or Mixamp 5.8 is a significant improvement over the Turtle Beach DSS?  Enough to justify the extra cost?


 
  I want to know that answer since I am waiting for my dss! And btw, is anyone a halo player on here?


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





cphoenix said:


> Would you guys say the Astro Mixamp Pro or Mixamp 5.8 is a significant improvement over the Turtle Beach DSS?  Enough to justify the extra cost?


 
   
  As with many things: it depends. 
   
  I went from a DSS2 to a Mixamp Pro 2013.  We all know that the DSS and the DSS2 are different beasts, and I can only speak from experience as a former DSS2 user.  The Mixamp, using Dolby Headphone, has better separation and positioning than the DSS2.  There is also more hiss on the Mixamp than with the DSS2.  Also, if you crank the 2013 Mixamp Pro to full volume output on some headphones, explosion-type sound will distort - this is remedied by upping the amp volume and lowering the master volume dial on the mixamp.
   
  I sold my DSS2 and basically made most of my money back on the purchase (bought it on sale).  That said, I find the increased positional accuracy produced by the Mixamp to be worth the cost.  The DSS2 got me about 80% of the way there, but this is head-fi and there's always another train coming, another upgrade on the horizon, etc.
   
  Of course, the first DSS also relies on Dolby Headphone so I would imagine that it would produce mixamp-like results.  Only difference being the ability to mix in game chat and, if you're looking at the 2013 edition, several EQ presets.


----------



## CPhoenix

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> As with many things: it depends.
> 
> I went from a DSS2 to a Mixamp Pro 2013.  We all know that the DSS and the DSS2 are different beasts, and I can only speak from experience as a former DSS2 user.  The Mixamp, using Dolby Headphone, has better separation and positioning than the DSS2.  There is also more hiss on the Mixamp than with the DSS2.  Also, if you crank the 2013 Mixamp Pro to full volume output on some headphones, explosion-type sound will distort - this is remedied by upping the amp volume and lowering the master volume dial on the mixamp.
> 
> ...


 
  Strange.  Last night I plugged my brand new HE-400's into the DSS and Fiio E11 amp and got some serious hissing in the background.  Thats why i started looking into the mixamp.  Then I plug it all in the same way just now and didn't hear any hissing whatsoever.  It sounded quite nice to my ears actually.  Maybe I'll stick with my DSS after all.
  Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> I want to know that answer since I am waiting for my dss! And btw, is anyone a halo player on here?


 
  Halo 4 FTW 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 that's all I play, lol.  Ive never heard the mixamp, but through my DSS I was able to accurately tell where sounds were coming from, if someone was behind me I noticed right away, etc.


----------



## NamelessPFG

MLE, I hope you're happy, because I'm seriously tempted to save up and add the HE-400 to my headphone collection right now. Just when I thought Head-Fi wouldn't cause any more financial damage...
   
  I still don't see it as a replacement for the SR-Lambda, but it's a damn good complement to it. I certainly wouldn't mind having it as a secondary headphone, especially one that isn't restricted so much by amplification. I can even plug it into my little X-Fi Go! with no additional portable amp, and it still sounds great!
   
  No wonder these things are so hyped...it does so much right, and the price isn't in the stratosphere like a lot of other headphones discussed around here. It helps that you don't need a headphone amp costing hundreds of dollars for it to do its thing.


----------



## Impulse

In what way does it complement your Lamda? More for practical purposes or is there something substantially different about the sound that you enjoy having as an alternative? A little of both?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I've been playing a few hours of The Last Story on Wii using the 2011 mixamp. I don't hear any sibilance while the console is on, but when I plug in the headphone I do hear some. I will have to do a test with the PS3 however, since I can't really compare the 2011 and 2013 versions with the Wii.
   
  Anyway, I'm not particularly impressed with Pro Logic II. It does sound noticeably better, but really it is all for naught. You don't really benefit from having 5.1 in game. Furthermore, you can tell this audio was originally coded in stereo and then amplified to different channels. I'll try other games soon (Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime Trilogy) and games on PS3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> MLE, I hope you're happy, because I'm seriously tempted to save up and add the HE-400 to my headphone collection right now. Just when I thought Head-Fi wouldn't cause any more financial damage...
> 
> I still don't see it as a replacement for the SR-Lambda, but it's a damn good complement to it. I certainly wouldn't mind having it as a secondary headphone, especially one that isn't restricted so much by amplification. I can even plug it into my little X-Fi Go! with no additional portable amp, and it still sounds great!
> 
> No wonder these things are so hyped...it does so much right, and the price isn't in the stratosphere like a lot of other headphones discussed around here. It helps that you don't need a headphone amp costing hundreds of dollars for it to do its thing.




Glad to hear that you're liking it. I assume it's quite different in tonal balance from your Stax.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Glad to hear that you're liking it. I assume it's quite different in tonal balance from your Stax.


 
   
  Different enough in that you can tell it's more of a gentle V than a gentle ^, thus putting a bit more emphasis on bass and treble notes than voices, but not so far different that the midrange completely suffers for it. Most vocal music I listen to is still completely enjoyable on the HE-400, with its own little touch of presence compared to the SR-Lambda's ethereal politeness. Something about its overall sound presentation also reminds me of the SR-202, but with less recessed mids.
   
  I admit that I can't really find the proper words to compare the HE-400 with my Stax experiences, though. Electrostatics are a bit difficult to explain without first-hand experience, which is really why I want MLE to try my set some day. He's getting an AVR, so that should make things a LOT easier for me provided he's got a separate DH processor feeding the receiver (since I doubt the Marantz receivers apply Dolby Headphone mixing through their front left/right speaker taps). I'll throw in my SU-DH1 with a 3.5mm TRS-to-RCA cable if necessary.
   
  I still think the SR-Lambda would have the edge for competitive gaming due to better long-term comfort (for me, thanks to earpads that don't touch my earlobe) and relatively subdued bass (it's not that it isn't there at all, but that it isn't the focus of its presentation unless you EQ up the bass significantly), but the HE-400 lends a distinctly cinematic experience to gaming audio, with theater-like rumbly explosions and still enough soundstage and spaciousness for CMSS-3D Headphone, Dolby Headphone, and other similar headphone surround mixing features to do their thing.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> In what way does it complement your Lambda? More for practical purposes or is there something substantially different about the sound that you enjoy having as an alternative? A little of both?


 
   
  A little of both, with the amp thing being the practical part (it helps that the HE-400 is apparently pretty efficient by orthodynamic standards) and everything I said above explaining the complementary sound presentation.


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> I want to know that answer since I am waiting for my dss! And btw, is anyone a halo player on here?



Both the DSS & Mixamp use Dolby Headphone, the difference would be in the quality of the DAC and amp section. I haven't heard either but I expect (hope?) the more expensive unit used the bigger budget to improve these parts. Then again, Beats and Bose exist as testaments to price:value. I also wouldn't be surprised if TB stopped making their processor with DH because the license fees were too high, it seems DH has been dropped from MOST virtual surround devices lately. Someday, I'm going to have to demo a DSS vs my Recon3D, though right now the Recon3D _for me_ used with movies and games wins over the DH video Mad posted. But they're also close in performance for me.

I love Halo, I think Reach & Halo 4 have even better positional audio than the CoD/MW series. I remember, back before I had virtual surround, feeling totally blown away by the occlusion audio effects in Halo 3, and I think Halo 4 is even better. I only wish the damn warthog wasn't so loud, and in-game volume control would be a boon for balancing game and chat audio volume without a mixamp/SLYR mixer/Steelseries puck type of device.

Some people just prefer the more recognizable military style of other games, though I still wouldn't call them "realistic," lol.



cphoenix said:


> Strange.  Last night I plugged my brand new HE-400's into the DSS and Fiio E11 amp and got some serious hissing in the background.  Thats why i started looking into the mixamp.  Then I plug it all in the same way just now and didn't hear any hissing whatsoever.  It sounded quite nice to my ears actually.  Maybe I'll stick with my DSS after all.
> Halo 4 FTW
> 
> 
> ...




Just checking you were aware, kelite was comparing the *DSS2* to a 2013 Mixamp, not the original DSS. Personally, unless you want to control chat/game volume balance a lot and you can't set the game volume in-game, if you already have a DSS I recommend waiting till you're ready to have a receiver home setup.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

If anybody is interested, I'm willing to lend out my 2013 mixamp for a week. You guys would have to pay for shipping though.
   
  As a matter of fact, I want to sell that thing. I bought the previous version with rca inputs for use with the Wii. But for now I can lend it to somebody.


----------



## Evshrug

^ Cruel of you to appeal to my curiosity!!! I may take you up on the lendy, but I still have other pressing financial demands...


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I love Halo, I think Reach & Halo 4 have even better positional audio than the CoD/MW series. I remember, back before I had virtual surround, feeling totally blown away by the occlusion audio effects in Halo 3, and I think Halo 4 is even better. I only wish the damn warthog wasn't so loud, and in-game volume control would be a boon for balancing game and chat audio volume without a mixamp/SLYR mixer/Steelseries puck type of device.


 
  I think the same thing! I can figure out positional ques so much better in halo 4. Do you play online?


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> I think the same thing! I can figure out positional ques so much better in halo 4. Do you play online?




Lol of course  I divide my time between Halo 4, and then I have some friends who are hardcore devoted to CoD4 and L4D2.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol of course
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Same things I play. Well add me if you want, it might take a week or so till my mic arrives though. o KroniK BR o


----------



## Evshrug

Alright. You'll have to let me know which mic of mine you like best. I have a particular challenge because I have to speak quietly so I don't disturb others, part of why I got into headphone gaming in general. It's funny, ive been playing Borderlands with my AD700 lately, and i keep freaking out thinking i heard my mom opening the door behind me and exclaiming something angry. That usually only happens for real first thing in the morning as a sort of "Good Morning" and after work as a "I'm home," but of course never actually as friendly 

I can't play long tonight, but I'll send you a FR.



jazh23 said:


> Hi, how about the beyerdynamic DT 235 for gaming?




It'll work, but the soundstage won't be as believable or expansive as some of the favorites around here (CAL!, AD700, DT880 and 990, K/Q701 or Annies, Stax, HE-400, etc).


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Alright. You'll have to let me know which mic of mine you like best. I have a particular challenge because I have to speak quietly so I don't disturb others, part of why I got into headphone gaming in general. It's funny, ive been playing Borderlands with my AD700 lately, and i keep freaking out thinking i heard my mom opening the door behind me and exclaiming something angry. That usually only happens for real first thing in the morning as a sort of "Good Morning" and after work as a "I'm home," but of course never actually as friendly
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I wont be on tonight either. And are you a competitive player?


----------



## Evshrug

I'm pretty good, but I play just for the fun of it  I think Mad gets better scores than me, but then I never try for a nuke or something in CoD.
I would get hella serious if I got sponsored though.


----------



## lolwatpear

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Doing that for me makes the voices sound more recessed and not as clear, plus it is easier to adjust the volume with a mixer like the SLYR's. I scored a cheap NIB Sennheiser x320 on ebay, cut off the headset (which sounded surprisingly open), and modified the mixers cable to accept any headphone with a 4 pole 3.5mm jack.
> 
> 
> Is the isolation part sarcastic? Can't tell.
> ...


 
   can you show me a pic of your mod/setup?


----------



## raband

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I think Mad gets better scores than me


 
   
  Do you mean sort of like:
   
  Fun 7/10
  Competitive 9.5/10
  Comfort: 7/10
   
  I think I'd rate myself: 
  Fun 9/10 (never take much too seriously)
  Competitive 6/10 (gave a bonus point for teaching team-mates what not to do and drawing enemy fire)
  Comfort 9/10 (well padded, huge space between the ears)


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> No offense, but it's really hard to read your posts.
> 
> *No offense taken; I'm sure it is. I really have no clue why I've been typing like that. I don't want to try to figure it out either, lol. I'm just going to do my best to change it. Btw, that was an appropriate picture for Head-Fi. I thought that was quite funny *
> 
> ...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Amazon and iTunes files use a similar bitrate tbh, even though I think they're sorta derided amongst many around here. I think some of them use or may have used VBR in the past (which shifts the bitrate throughout the track as deemed necessary), but it shouldn't matter if properly encoded. I've no clue where each company pulls their stuff from tho, I imagine that's covered by the licensing deals with the studios.





> *I have no clue why it's adding these lines, but it's really annoying, lol. *





> Quality of the original recoding probably has far more of an impact than the end stage encoding, and there's a lot of poorly recorded/mastered stuff out there these days (not even these days either, it's always been an artist vs engineer dynamic at play).
> Anyway, no you couldn't convert a FLAC file into a low bitrate MP3 without losing information, that wasn't what I said at all. If you did that you'd lose data because of the target rate, but not because the original is missing any. You could rip a CD to FLAC and burn it back without losing anything in the process tho. If you were to rip it to MP3, anything you do afterwards incurs a loss.





> *No, you're right. I understand. Thanks for the clarification. Then this means that all the music on MOG should be basically lossless, even with it being 320kbps (which is near CD quality anyway) instead of FLAC. I say this because MOG gets their music directly from the record/artist? companies.*
> 
> You can rip a CD to FLAC and then re-encode to a high enough bitrate MP3 without an audible loss, or you could go from FLAC to another lossless format without any loss whatsoever.





> *Well, this just confirms what I just said then. A quick search also showed that 320kbps is the highest MP3 bitrate. *
> 
> It's not a very complicated concept if you do five minutes of reading and take a second to understand it. There's simply different types of compression and despite the stigma some compression algorithms don't alter the content at all, they're obviously much less effective at actually compressing tho, it's just simple math.
> 
> You lose data with MP3 because of the form of compression used, when I say you can covert a FLAC file into something else without incurring a penalty it's meant in contrast to an MP3 where you've already taking a penalty by going to MP3 and any further re-encode compiles the loss. The Wikipedia article on lossless compression probably explains it better without going into all these possibly confusing examples.





> *Pretty easy indeed. Well, which compression algorithms would you suggest that do not alter content? This last part, hmm, so although MOG is losing data by going MP3, it's not incurring an audible loss since it's getting it from the source and using the 320kbps bitrate? *


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chicolom,
> I think you said it while sounding much less like an a-hole than me. I was worried I might make things worse, but I felt something had to be said.
> 
> *He did very well. Regardless, I appreciate the input from you both, as well as everyone else. *
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





raband said:


> Dude, Don't worry yourself too much.
> 
> As you said, you're new to the forum stuff.
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

MUCH better, SoAmusing  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You were right, you _do_ learn quickly


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wall o' text. Headache inducing...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Tambien necessito un cable largo para el PS3, porque el hodio wireless es muy lento.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *Which PS3 do you have? I 2nd the download thing. Same with my connection for gaming. What ISP do you use? *
> 
> My router has gigabyt ports, so that should be beneficial. Just... running a cable from my room to the living room seems like overkill.





> *Does it even matter when you're not getting 1gbps though? Wouldn't a 100mbps router do just fine? I don't know a whole lot about this stuff.* *The PS3 can utilize this though. It's in the network settings (manual settings I believe). PS3 set to 1000 mbps Full Duplex Wired* *I think.*


 
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Huh, and here I thought their usual shipping cost to Puerto Rico was a bit high... Guess it's actually about standard for them. Their prices are so low tho (and stuff ships out so fast) that even with the shipping cost most things usually end up being cheaper there regardless.





> *Why is it doing the line thing again? I think their shipping is pretty fair, especially considering what you said, as well as online coupons. Yeah, same day shipping if placed before 5PST I think.*
> 
> They've got pretty good service too, last year I ordered two long Displayport cables and after a couple of weeks it looked like the order was lost, so I called in and they resent it with two day shipping. Turns out both packages showed up on the same day, and when I called again they told me I could just keep the extra cables.





> *Dude, how honest of you  The weird thing is though, the same thing happened to me. I ordered something from overseas on Ebay, told the guy it never came (it was a cheap thing so he send another). Well, I checked the mail one day, and both of them were in there. By chance, did you use USPS?*





> It's totally worth it IMO, you can then get a small gigabit switch the size of Whopper (they're like $35) and hook it up at the end of the cable so you can hook up multiple devices via gigabit in the same room, speed up transfers/streaming between them etc.





> *I guess it's useless one gets 1gbps up or down.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do you honestly have to respond to and quote everything? I've never seen someone use so many quotes on a forum, and I've been on forums basically for 12 years.

I mean, damn. Lol. Just let some of it go.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I've got some new toys today! (No, I didn't take the image upside-down; blame Dropbox wanting to rotate my pictures for NO reason.)
> 
> Not pictured is the capture card I've been waiting on, which coincidentally arrived today; I'll be sure to put that through its paces soon, with my various consoles (but mainly the PS3).
> 
> ...


 

 Yayy, finally, you got to experience some other phones, lol. Can you not just rotate the picture back? Wow, more high marks for the Lambda series. Only makes me want to own one that much more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thus confirming my last post.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chicolom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> MUCH better, SoAmusing
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I can't rate peoples' stuff anymore, lol. Thank you very much though. I still have more to learn, but it's better. I do, although it's a simple concept. Look at my sig though? I mentioned you very early on in my thread. I'd like to know what you think of it.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Do you honestly have to respond to and quote everything? I've never seen someone use so many quotes on a forum, and I've been on forums basically for 12 years.
> 
> I mean, damn. Lol. Just let some of it go.


 
  Do you have to be so sensitive? Headache inducing? Everything? I realize it's still a lot, but give me a break. No, I don't have to. I talk a lot. People are "my thing". I'll try to cut down the quotes beforehand, as some of it I'm not even replying to. Maybe a PM will do. Idk. I'm still working on it. I realize your email or whatever may be blowing up with the posts, but, idk what to tell you. It's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I don't mean to take over your thread. I'm just trying to be a part of, learn, and add to the discussion. Anyway, well, I'm different. Call me weird if you'd like. I manage my time well, so I have time to do this. I'm also a thorough dude. Can't help it. You could call me a completionist, but that has since changed. It's better now. Eh, I don't know how to end this, but more quotes are coming. You'll have to live with it I guess.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Look at my sig though? I mentioned you very early on in my thread. I'd like to know what you think of it.


 
   
  Interesting.  I already know about all the stuff you mentioned, but it could be useful for people new to the "internet purchasing" though...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote:


evshrug said:


> Do ps3 gamers even like talking to eachother?


 
  Lol, who knows, but I have to communicate a lot in BF3. It's great fun. I've heard plenty of chat on MW2 when I've played though. Pretty funny sometimes.
   
  Quote:


johnsonr520 said:


> ... college life is hard for an audiophile : /


 
  College and audiophile in the same sentence, LOL.
   
^^ Here's a good example of me cutting down the quotes.​


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Interesting.  I already know about all the stuff you mentioned, but it could be useful for people new to the "internet purchasing" though...


 
  Ha, did you see the part in the beginning where I mentioned you? I didn't did I? That's a good response though. Thanks   Did you happen to read it in its entirety? Well, even for people not knew to it, it offers some valuable information. Btw, there is a poll there if you wanna vote  Maybe I could improve the poll somehow, lol.
   
  Random: Btw, I think it's really stupid that people cannot demo things before purchase. What have the companies got to hide? They must not believe in their product.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> Ha, did you see the part in the beginning where I mentioned you? I didn't did I? That's a good response though. Thanks   Did you happen to read it in its entirety? Well, even for people not knew to it, it offers some valuable information. Btw, there is a poll there if you wanna vote  Maybe I could improve the poll somehow, lol.


 
   
  Ya I saw that.
   
  I read it, but I think it's too long worded.  You could condense it big time and still get the information across.  The examples of usefullness stuff seems unnecessary and too long.  People don't really need to hear stories about how you returned stuff b'c there were problems with it.  And you have _4 different examples_ of when amazon was useful.  I would trim that stuff out or condense it down to a couple sentences at most.
   
  If it were me writing it, I would just list the places then make a quick pro + con - list, like this
   
  Amazon:
  + easy returns
  + low price
   
  - third party sellers not always legit/authorized dealers
   
  something like that.  It's just way too much text right now.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Ya I saw that.
> 
> *Good.*
> 
> ...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote:  





> The modmic video( http://www.modmic.com/blogs/news/7204210-first-looks-at-the-3-0 )clearly demonstrates the noise cancelling feature of the V3 so if you're worried about isolation (in terms of having game audio reverbed into chat) that would be the one to get. I'll do a quick write up after I play with em for a day or two.


 
  Hey, thanks for this. I've been keeping tabs on the development myself. Hmm, I don't really like the rigidity or size of the V3, but my PS3 has a custom fan that runs higher than the normal fan, and I think this, along with having open headphones, will make me purchase the V3. Still not sure though.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> ...I'm seriously tempted to save up and add the HE-400 to my headphone collection right now. Just when I thought Head-Fi wouldn't cause any more financial damage...
> 
> I certainly wouldn't mind having it as a secondary headphone, especially one that isn't restricted so much by amplification.
> ...


 
  I feel like we're swaying you to the dark side, haha. So glad you've come over! I think you'd equally like the Annies, if not more in some respects.
  Your other comments are basically how I feel in relation to having a Stax setup one day. I just totally see a viable use for "normal" headphones. It's mainly the restriction of amplification that gets me.
  Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> ...The Mixamp, using Dolby Headphone, has better separation and positioning than the DSS2...


 
  You're like the first to mention a DSS2 here or something, lol. So glad to hear someone's opinion on DSS2 in relation to DH.


----------



## ruuku

soamusing777 said:


> Hey, thanks for this. I've been keeping tabs on the development myself. Hmm, I don't really like the rigidity or size of the V3, but my PS3 has a custom fan that runs higher than the normal fan, and I think this, along with having open headphones, will make me purchase the V3. Still not sure though.




The fact that the V3 uses the brass tube for structural support , combined with how the mini-coaxial connection changes the lines (form/shape) are the main reasons I'm going ahead with the V2... but after I ordered there was a post on their website saying that a change in production _may_ lead to a price reduction. so if anyone doesn't need one right this second, then I'd wait and try and save a few bux. I've yet to use it but from the reviews, it seems like even when paying full price, i'd be worth it(for me anyway).


----------



## Evshrug

I95 North also mentioned his fondness for the DSS2.
I gotta go back and find that guy's gamertag I forgot to add last night. That's 2 or 3 pages back?


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm pretty good, but I play just for the fun of it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Im not a serious cod player either. I play more zombies. Halo reach I played competitivly but halo 4 doesnt appeal to the competitive player


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm, why do you say that? SWAT mode not as nicely balanced? I say that but hated Sword Base in swat mode, but loved the non-camping maps like powerhouse that no one else liked.

I looked at the mod mics, they seem like a nice product but $32 seems expensive, and the unidirectional v3 (meant to pick up less ambient noise) even more so at $40. I could buy a used DSS and a couple lapel mics with that money, and still order Domino's and a Pop (soda for y'all southerners). I still wish I could amp my current mic with my FiiO E5.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Now that I think about it, you guys don't even need ze mixamp. There is already a video demonstrating 7.1 surround sound. I guess the only thing you would test would be the actual mixing abilities if you're so inclined. By the way, I did some purely scientific testing and I can without a shadow of a doubt attest that there is in fact some hiss...
   
  It mostly (on most presets) occurs after you go past the halfway mark on the pot. You can hear it when there's not much going on in the background but it's hardly noticeable when in game. Although mind you, I don't think my volume was up to that point.


----------



## kellte2

Not sure if this is old news, but apparently Astro is close to releasing an update for the Mixamp Pro 2013 that will allow user created EQ settings to be saved over the default presets.  Interesting, but i'm skeptical how detailed the EQ will be.
   
  Another note for 2013 Mixamp users: if you are experiencing audio drops using the included USB cable, they're sending replacement cables to those who contact support.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> can you show me a pic of your mod/setup?


 
   
  I didn't take pics of the actual mod process, but here is the finished result. I took the volume controller apart and soldered the wires directly to the board instead of soldering my wire to the REALLY crappy wire they were using to begin with.
   
   

   
  -Erik


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I looked at the mod mics, they seem like a nice product but $32 seems expensive, and the unidirectional v3 (meant to pick up less ambient noise) even more so at $40. I could buy a used DSS and a couple lapel mics with that money, and still order Domino's and a Pop (soda for y'all southerners).


 
   
  Yeah, $32 was already pushing it for a simple plastic tube, a mic capsule, some wiring, and some magnets... Then again, I probably would've spent a lot more on a fancier USB desk mic (for PC) if I hadn't stumbled upon the ModMic. I haven't tried a lot of different clip-on's tho; just the Zalman one, which wasn't terrible but the MM (v1) is noticeably better IMO.
   
  I think they just have better QC than most, the v1 is omni directional too but my Zalman still picks up a whole lot more background noise (fan noise, keyboard noise, coqui's and insects chirping outside, etc.) than the Modmic I've got, while sounding worse than the MM. The mute function they're adding later should be nice, they should've debuted that w/the v2/v3 but I guess people have been asking for mics ASAP during their supply & QC debacle.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I've been listening to a lot of vocal music lately, and switched back to the SR-Lambda for a comparison.
   
  The HE-400, while not bad at all, also seems to have a similar issue to the SR-202 in that voices seem to sound...slightly textured/grainy, maybe? I can't quite find the words, but it makes the voices sound a bit artificial...or maybe I'm just really, really used to the SR-Lambda's presentation after having used it as my primary headphone for so long. Regardless, I still consider the old Lambda to be a superior headphone for vocals, even taking into account the mid-emphasized frequency response. No other headphone I've heard yet renders vocals quite like it does.
   
  The best comparison I can think of, even though I haven't heard the other headphone in question, is how Mad Lust Envy compares the HE-400's mids to the HD650's. To paraphrase, the HE-400 has well-integrated mids with the whole spectrum that make vocals sound good, but the HD650 has this sweet, upfront presentation of vocals that puts the singer in the spotlight. (I have to audition the HD650 one day to make my own comparisons...)
   
  I also can't shake this overall impression, even though it's been a while since I listened to one, that the current "numerical" Stax Lambdas (at least SR-202, maybe SR-303 too) are more like electrostatic HE-400s in overall presentation, just with bigger soundstage and slightly less tactile bass.
   
  Also, it's now become apparent to me that both headphones can deliver proper punchy bass when it's called for, but the HE-400 will emphasize it more because of its frequency response.


----------



## Evshrug

Coqui's are awesome

NamelessPFG,
I know how you feel. I listened to the AD700, quite often, for three years before buying Mad's Q701. I do love the Q701, but much more often with the AD700 I think I hear someone behind me and I turn around in real life, to see nobody. Maybe the bass is really quick and cold, maybe the upper-mids are colored, but I am definitely attuned to them. The Q701s dominate music time, but sometimes I get in a groove of playing the AD700s straight out of the recon3D so the AD700 gets around 50% of my gaming time.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





> roger de ceiba said:
> 
> 
> > Now that I think about it, you guys don't even need ze mixamp. There is already a video demonstrating 7.1 surround sound.


 
  Don't even need the mixamp? What am I missing here?


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I didn't take pics of the actual mod process, but here is the finished result. I took the volume controller apart and soldered the wires directly to the board instead of soldering my wire to the REALLY crappy wire they were using to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thats exactly what i did to my turtle beaches when they broke. Now I connect my hd558 to it. Huge improvement


----------



## NamelessPFG

Oh man, do I wish I had the money to bid on this right now...
   
  This is a Normal-bias Stax SR-Lambda, the one I keep raving about, with an SRD-7/SB transformer box that's shoved into a nice headphone stand. Hopefully, one of you here can win this auction, though I wouldn't count on winning with a max bid of significantly less than $400-450 given how expensive these things tend to sell on eBay.


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless,
Again, wish I could though I don't really need to. I'm curious though, if you already have the SR-Lambda (and love it), why do you wish you could buy this? So that you could have Stax's amp and their whole collection kit?

I have a feeling that Mad would jump on this, if he sold his HE-400 (again) and since he already has a Marantz receiver on the way. But who knows, someone else may jump first?



soamusing777 said:


> Don't even need the mixamp? What am I missing here?



I believe Roger was suggesting if someone was thinking they would have to buy something (Mixamp/DSS, Marantz or vintage receiver, Xonar sound card) just to hear what Dolby Headphone was all about, they could instead watch the video posted in Mad's guide (and mine) to contrast DH to stereo or another virtual surround algorithm they have on hand. He makes a decent point, though if the tester likes the sample he or she will obviously then want to make a purchase choice. 
Roger may even have been partially responding to me, but I've already seen the video, and I want to hear the processing "live" with games I'm more familiar with to get a better feeling for THX TSP vs DH. It's a first world dilemma XD

...

Maybe I should try waiting tables again? I'm home sick, things'll get going in earnest again when my face wouldn't scare a potential employer, LOL!


----------



## jazh23

Sennheiser HD 419 vs Beyerdynamic DT 235 for PC games?

 I like the superlux 681 and panasonic RP-HTF600-S too, but I prefer velour ear pads and would have to pay $20 more for the pads...


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> Oh man, do I wish I had the money to bid on this right now...
> 
> This is a Normal-bias Stax SR-Lambda, the one I keep raving about, with an SRD-7/SB transformer box that's shoved into a nice headphone stand. Hopefully, one of you here can win this auction, though I wouldn't count on winning with a max bid of significantly less than $400-450 given how expensive these things tend to sell on eBay.




Sshhh nameless, it's going to be mine, lol. You wanna talk about a deal, in November a Lambda with SRM-1 Mk2 went for 450 with an extension cable. Wish I had seen that one ::mad:

-Erik

43 Watchers, probably going to go for WAY too much :mad:


----------



## I95North

burritoboy9984 said:


> Sshhh nameless, it's going to be mine, lol. You wanna talk about a deal, in November a Lambda with SRM-1 Mk2 went for 450 with an extension cable. Wish I had seen that one ::mad:
> 
> -Erik
> 
> 43 Watchers, probably going to go for WAY too much :mad:




Lol that's funny I'm one of those watchers for 3 days now!! 8hrs left to bid.. Wow I would love to try the amp out from the lambda with my esp-950's.. 

Well it seems for me this might be the end of the road with buying n trying commercial products left n right. I'm about done with it and I'm going the DIY route with the enlisted help of a friend. Wish me luck on my endeavors.. Lol


----------



## burritoboy9984

i95north said:


> Lol that's funny I'm one of those watchers for 3 days now!! 8hrs left to bid.. Wow I would love to try the amp out from the lambda with my esp-950's..
> 
> Well it seems for me this might be the end of the road with buying n trying commercial products left n right. I'm about done with it and I'm going the DIY route with the enlisted help of a friend. Wish me luck on my endeavors.. Lol




I've been watching it since the day it popped up. I have a saved search that shows pretty much everythig stax and electrostat, lol.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think after the X1, my journey is gonna end up going to electrostats... who knows? I'll need to demo some first.

Btw, the Marantz came in today. I was dead asleep though. Time to unbox this beast!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> Again, wish I could though I don't really need to. I'm curious though, if you already have the SR-Lambda (and love it), why do you wish you could buy this? So that you could have Stax's amp and their whole collection kit?


 
   
  My SR-Lambda isn't exactly factory-spec. The drivers were rebuilt by someone at some stage of its life, and the cable must have been replaced too, given that it's actually a 5-pin cable meant for Pro bias sets. The mineral wool inside the earcups is also missing.
   
  That's why I want to get one that's still in its stock state, to compare how similar-and different-they sound. That, and since it's a discontinued model, and I don't like the numerical Lambdas I've auditioned quite as much, I naturally want a backup in case the worst comes to pass.
   
  That SRD-7/SB isn't a standalone amp, by the way. It's a transformer box that needs speaker-level input. I already have one of those and wouldn't really need it, though the headphone stand around it is really nice.
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Sshhh nameless, it's going to be mine, lol. You wanna talk about a deal, in November a Lambda with SRM-1 Mk2 went for 450 with an extension cable. Wish I had seen that one :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Heh, and I saw a deal where someone sold a Lambda Pro with an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro for $400 shipped. No extension cable, but between my $250 SR-Lambda + SRD-7/SB and that, I thought vintage Stax prices were supposed to be lower than they currently are...
   
  Best of luck to you! eBay's competition is fierce...
   
  Quote: 





i95north said:


> Lol that's funny I'm one of those watchers for 3 days now!! 8hrs left to bid.. Wow I would love to try the amp out from the lambda with my esp-950's..
> 
> Well it seems for me this might be the end of the road with buying n trying commercial products left n right. I'm about done with it and I'm going the DIY route with the enlisted help of a friend. Wish me luck on my endeavors.. Lol


 
   
  This one's Normal bias (230V), NOT Pro bias (580V), and the Koss ESP/950 runs at around 600V if I'm not mistaken. You're asking for trouble just thinking about mixing and matching equipment here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is juuuuuust peachy. Nothing works. Not the HDMIs (my PS3 crashes just being plugged into the Marantz), none of the analog I puts work, nor does the opticals, AM/FM, ANYTHING. I essentially just wasted god knows how much money for a ****ing dud.

If I can get this guy to take this back, I'm just gonna buy a Mixamp Pro and screw off this bull**** entirely. I'm very much done with everything at this point.

edit: *of course, he doesn't accept returns*

All I can do right now is laugh. I knew I should have went with my gut instinct and just bought the Mixamp Pro from the get. This receiver BS just for headphone use was a huge waste of money.


----------



## Impulse

Ouch, that really blows.  What a raw deal, isn't there some sort of Ebay/Paypal protection you can invoke? I've never really bought anything over $50 on Ebay, never had such a terrible experience either (yet).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> This is juuuuuust peachy. Nothing works. Not the HDMIs (my PS3 crashes just being plugged into the Marantz), none of the analog I puts work, nor does the opticals, AM/FM, ANYTHING. I essentially just wasted god knows how much money for a ****ing dud.
> 
> If I can get this guy to take this back, I'm just gonna buy a Mixamp Pro and screw off this bull**** entirely. I'm very much done with everything at this point.
> 
> ...


 
   
  First off, calm down and don't worry. Try resetting the microprocessor, I always do this first thing when I purchase a used receiver, someone might have changed all the assigned inputs. If not, as said above, ebay buyer protection will cover you if the item is not as described. I had an issue with the PS3 not liking the Marantz as well, try a different HDMI cable, it worked for me. One thing of note, the GUI won't work via HDMI, so you need to run an analog (I used composite) to view the GUI and change settings easier.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
That sounds terrible, I'm really sorry to hear you're having trouble. Does PS3 have a display reset to default like if you hold LTrigger and Y? Have you tried another source besides PS3, with the exception of radio which hopefully you had an antenna plugged in? Does the receiver light up when you turn it on at all?

I'm sure you've tried a bunch of ideas, I just wish it had been working


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

burritoboy9984 said:


> First off, calm down and don't worry. Try resetting the microprocessor, I always do this first thing when I purchase a used receiver, someone might have changed all the assigned inputs. If not, as said above, ebay buyer protection will cover you if the item is not as described. I had an issue with the PS3 not liking the Marantz as well, try a different HDMI cable, it worked for me. One thing of note, the GUI won't work via HDMI, so you need to run an analog (I used composite) to view the GUI and change settings easier.
> 
> -Erik




THANK you. I reset it, and its taking a few of the inputs now. Got it to show my PC screen, and a few of the analogs are working as well. 

Sigh, sorry guys. I didnt know about the reset, and absolutely nothing was working before.

I'll keep you updated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

burritoboy9984 said:


> First off, calm down and don't worry. Try resetting the microprocessor, I always do this first thing when I purchase a used receiver, someone might have changed all the assigned inputs. If not, as said above, ebay buyer protection will cover you if the item is not as described. I had an issue with the PS3 not liking the Marantz as well, try a different HDMI cable, it worked for me. One thing of note, the GUI won't work via HDMI, so you need to run an analog (I used composite) to view the GUI and change settings easier.
> 
> -Erik




THANK you. I reset it, and its taking a few of the inputs now. Got it to show my PC screen, and a few of the analogs are working as well. 

Sigh, sorry guys. I didnt know about the reset, and absolutely nothing was working before.

I'll keep you updated.


----------



## kellte2

burritoboy9984 said:


> eBay buyer protection will cover you if the item is not as described.




This.


----------



## NamelessPFG

That sucks, MLE. But if he did NOT list it as "For parts or repair" or state its defective nature in the description, you can file a dispute.

I was looking forward to sending you my prized Stax setup for a review, now that you have speaker-level output to power the SRD-7/SB...or would, if it worked.

Modern AVRs need to be rebooted/reset now? Just goes to show how used I am to older receivers that are basically just audio amps with a built-in radio tuner, and in more recent years, Dolby Digital and DTS decoders. None of mine act as video scalers or processors, and they either work or they don't.

...Hey, maybe it does work after all!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like the HDMI works for my PC, but not for the PS3 which just freezes. Guess I'm out of luck there. Just gotta find which optical input to use for audio. Such a hassle.

Gotta say, the Annie sounds awesome off the Receiver.


----------



## Evshrug

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]The more you know...

What's the opposite of schadenfreude? Simple empathy? Whatever, I'm happy for you.
Edit: so it sounds like the HDMI problem is more on the PS3 side. Do you get picture at all? You could ask Sony customer service for help...

Edit: googled some tips. Two things to try:
1.)Hold down the PS3 power button for over 5 seconds, till you hear two bips, and it should reset the PS3's connection settings.

2.) "Ok I had this problem too. Hook up your ps3 with the component cables thru the multi link. Also go ahead and hook the hdmi to ps3 and the tv. Go to display on the ps3 and click hdmi when you do this hit source, av1, av2, video or whatever your tv uses and find hdmi on the tv screen. You only have 30 seconds till it reverts back to what it was before. You have to hit x to save the changes. Hope this helps. It took me awhile to find this out. Some of this will confuse some , but keep reading what i wrote abd you will eventually get it. Happy GaMinG!"

Source: http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/PSN-Video-and-Music-General/HDMI-not-working/td-p/23105368


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont get anything. As soon as I plug it in, the PS3 freezes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Okay, I got it to work. Had to setup the input to take the optical for audio.

First game of MW2 in weeks, and I got a nuke on free for all. Lol.

Okay, so now to test if DTS will convert to DH.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> That sucks, MLE. But if he did NOT list it as "For parts or repair" or state its defective nature in the description, you can file a dispute.
> 
> I was looking forward to sending you my prized Stax setup for a review, now that you have speaker-level output to power the SRD-7/SB...or would, if it worked.
> 
> ...


 
   
  On newer receivers the inputs can be assigned to different things. For example you can assign your HDMI 1-3 to DVD, Aux 1, Sat, etc etc... MANY people adjust these settings to customize it for their use. You can also select AUTO decode, Analog or Digital to decide if the audio output is from the Digital (HDMI) or analog input. That is probably why MLE didn't get sound from the analog input he tried.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Looks like the HDMI works for my PC, but not for the PS3 which just freezes. Guess I'm out of luck there. Just gotta find which optical input to use for audio. Such a hassle.
> 
> Gotta say, the Annie sounds awesome off the Receiver.


 
   
  Glad you got it working! Wish you had kept the Mixamp just a little longer to compare the two though, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Oh man, do I wish I had the money to bid on this right now...
> 
> This is a Normal-bias Stax SR-Lambda, the one I keep raving about, with an SRD-7/SB transformer box that's shoved into a nice headphone stand. Hopefully, one of you here can win this auction, though I wouldn't count on winning with a max bid of significantly less than $400-450 given how expensive these things tend to sell on eBay.


 
   
  OMG those went for too much. $497 + shipping!
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, im currently bidding on a Mixamp Pro. Figured it'd be nice to keep one around especially for voice chat use. Using the Slyr's mixer wouldn't make sense, as I would have to use a cable from the headphone jack of the receiver to the RCA input on the Mixer, just to keep DH. And because the Mixer is a weak amp, I'd wanna use my Compass 2, so that would be triple amping, just to use voice chat.

So the receiver does DTS to Dolby Headphone. 

Not that it matters, but if my ps3 has both DTS and Dolby checked in, it defaults to Dolby for games. Well, at least on Mass Effect 3. Might be different for other games.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> First off, calm down and don't worry.
> 
> ...ebay buyer protection will cover you if the item is not as described. I had an issue with the PS3 not liking the Marantz as well, try a different HDMI cable, it worked for me.


 
   
  Sounds like your figuring out the receiver, but like burritoboy said, eBay _does _covers everything if something turns out defective.  You wouldn't have been out any money.
   
   
  The whole "seller does not accept returns" thing is only for if the item works but you don't want it/changed your mind.  It does NOT apply if the item doesn't work.  They have to take the return then.
   
  If the listing says something is functional and it turns out it isn't when you get it, you just open a case with eBay and they will take care of everything.  They even paid for return shipping to the seller last time I did it.
   
   
  It's kind of funny, last time I used it I bought a broken-ish laptop for about $80 that I wanted to tear apart for parts, but when it got here I could tell the laptop had been dropped on the corner.  The listing never mentioned that or showed it in the pictures.  I opened a case saying it "wasn't as described "and ebay paid for a shipping label to return it.  The seller refunded me all the costs too.  About two months later, the laptop showed up again at my house in the same box I shipped it in.  The box was beat up and looked like it had been around a lot, and it had about 6 newer shipping labels slapped on it by UPS.  Turns out UPS could never deliver it to the guy because he moved or something, so they just returned it to the sender (me) and I got to keep it + I didn't pay a cent for it.   Win win!


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

MLE,
   
  If it's the 2013 edition I'll sell it to you for 100 shipped. You don't have to bid.
   
  And for anyone else who may wish to borrow the 2013 mixamp, just let me know.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> On newer receivers the inputs can be assigned to different things. For example you can assign your HDMI 1-3 to DVD, Aux 1, Sat, etc etc... MANY people adjust these settings to customize it for their use. You can also select AUTO decode, Analog or Digital to decide if the audio output is from the Digital (HDMI) or analog input. That is probably why MLE didn't get sound from the analog input he tried.


 
   
  Renaming the same old inputs isn't really a new thing, and neither is mapping any particular digital audio input to an analog AV input, but today's receivers double as video processors these days, like upscaling source video to 1080p or whatever you desire. (I wonder if they can transcode HDMI to component, or if that's out of the question because of stupid HDCP.)
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> OMG those went for too much. $497 + shipping!


 
   
  Ow, my wallet...and those didn't even have a direct-drive amp!
   
  I should point out that a while back, I saw a Normal bias SR-Lambda by itself (no sort of drive unit) for $250 Buy-It-Now. I was torn on whether or not I should pile on the credit for this one given that I paid that much and got pretty much the same headphone WITH a transformer box, but by the time I woke up the next morning, it was gone. Bought.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, im currently bidding on a Mixamp Pro. Figured it'd be nice to keep one around especially for voice chat use. Using the Slyr's mixer wouldn't make sense, as I would have to use a cable from the headphone jack of the receiver to the RCA input on the Mixer, just to keep DH. And because the Mixer is a weak amp, I'd wanna use my Compass 2, so that would be triple amping, just to use voice chat.
> 
> So the receiver does DTS to Dolby Headphone.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Chat mixing is gonna be an issue if I were to get into online gaming using the PS3...but with the way I set things up, with a USB audio device for input ONLY and the voices routed through the main output (in my case, S/PDIF to the SU-DH1), it should work out. The only downside is that I can't adjust the game/voice volume ratio on-the-fly.
   
  I was wondering if the PS3 receiver issue was some kind of HDCP-related problem, but any HDMI-equipped device _that isn't a capture card_ is supposed to support HDCP. (I still can't believe Sony stupidly enforces that at all times, even while gaming. It would make setting it up on my capture card just a little easier.)
   
  Oh, and speaking of the PS3, a friend of mine showed me this little PSN title called Trash Panic while demonstrating his new capture card (incidentally the same model I have), which can be loosely described as "Tetris with physics and breakable objects". We were all left wondering "How does a game this _good_, such a sublime modern twist on an old formula like Shatter was for Breakout, go flying under the radar like that?", and I even asked why Sony didn't make it a PS Vita cross-buy title, seeing as it suits handheld play so well.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> This one's Normal bias (230V), NOT Pro bias (580V), and the Koss ESP/950 runs at around 600V if I'm not mistaken. You're asking for trouble just thinking about mixing and matching equipment here.


 
  Cool thanks for the heads up and yes your right the koss is 500v plus.. So SB means,standard bias "200v" and the PB is pro bias "500v plus"..


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Cool thanks for the heads up and yes your right the koss is 500v plus.. So SB means,standard bias "200v" and the PB is pro bias "500v plus"..


 
   
  No, the "SB" means "self-biasing" when it comes to Stax transformer boxes. That variant of the SRD-7 has no AC outlet plug, and instead derives its bias voltage from the input signal.
   
  If you want to tell what bias outputs a Stax driver unit has, you look at the plugs themselves. If they have a center hole, they're Normal bias. If they don't, they're Pro bias, and will have "PRO ONLY" text written under them to boot, while any 6-pin Normal bias outlets will read "NORMAL" underneath.
   
  Also, MLE, I forgot to tell you, but the mini-USB cable included with the ODAC seems to be broken somehow. I substituted one of my own, and it works just fine.
   
  Incidentally, the ODAC lacks the audio issues I had trying the Windows 7/8 What U Hear/Stereo Mix trick with my other USB audio devices. I wonder why...might have something to do with its plug-and-play nature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just threw that usb in there out of the bajillion I have. Just toss it. Hope the others after you have a mini usb to test the ODAC with, lol.

As for the person telling me about their Mixamp, I dont want the 2013. I'm bidding on the 2011.

Man, setting up this damn receiver is an absolute pain in the ass. They couldnt have called the inputs 'INPUT 1' etc? I have the pc, ps3, ps2, and tv hooked up (everything only audio except the pc), and I have to remember which one is under the VCR input, TAPE input, etc. So annoying. I cant even get the component input to work for my ps2, so I have to send the video directly to the TV. :rolleyes:

I wish it came with a manual, because this thing is NOT user friendly. Slowly figuring out some tricks, but still having problems getting the optical inputs to play for specific inputs. The pre-out (testing it with my soundbar) plays at all times, even when using headphones, and I cant get into the settings unless I have the headphone unplugged.

Just.. I'm regretting this.

As far as the Dolby Headohone itself, sounds like what I'm used to, so it looks like only Dolby Headphone Room 2, with no option to change it. Bass and treble controls aren't accessible for the headohone jack. The noise floor is silent until you get to volumes that would make your ears explode, so thats a very good thing. Performance-wise, the receiver is perfectly fine, and better than all the Mixamps in terms of raw sound quality. I'm just super frustrated with the interface, and it's difficulty.

I fired up Avatar to see how it handles DTS and the bass, and it was spectacular. No clipping or distortion like what happens on the Mixamp. This is definitely gonna be put to use.

I was supposed to go see the potential love of my life, and told her I was busy trying to figure this BS out, and I wouldn't be a good date with my mind so preoccupied. :rolleyes:


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Renaming the same old inputs isn't really a new thing, and neither is mapping any particular digital audio input to an analog AV input, but today's receivers double as video processors these days, like upscaling source video to 1080p or whatever you desire. (I wonder if they can transcode HDMI to component, or if that's out of the question because of stupid HDCP.)


 
   
  I didn't mean for it to sound like it was groundbreaking and new, lol. I was just suggesting that is what the problem was. And no, can't convert HDMI to component 
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, setting up this damn receiver is an absolute pain in the ass. They couldnt have called the inputs 'INPUT 1' etc? I have the pc, ps3, ps2, and tv hooked up (everything only audio except the pc), and I have to remember which one is under the VCR input, TAPE input, etc. So annoying. I cant even get the component input to work for my ps2, so I have to send the video directly to the TV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
*Manual here.* Once you get it all hooked up and setup correctly, you will enjoy it  Regarding the component issue. I don't believe it converts analog sources to hdmi. So for all analog sources, you should run a set of component cables from the receiver to the tv.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. I forget this thing is old. 

It really is stupid about the PS3 not working on it though. That's the main reason I even have this ridiculous thing.

I'll have to read that pdf when I get home from work.

I wonder if it will convert multi channel pcm to Dolby Headphone too. The Wii U...


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> Ah ok. I forget this thing is old.
> 
> It really is stupid about the PS3 not working on it though. That's the main reason I even have this ridiculous thing.
> 
> ...




You should be able to get the PS3 to work. Do you have the hdmi audio option enabled? It might be set to through which sends the sound to the tv. What exactly happens when you have the PS3 on?

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, as soon as I plug the ps3 into the receiver it freezes. I have to unplug the power for the ps3. If I have it hooked up and then turn it on, the ps3 turns on, and then it just freezes once it loads.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, as soon as I plug the ps3 into the receiver it freezes. I have to unplug the power for the ps3. If I have it hooked up and then turn it on, the ps3 turns on, and then it just freezes once it loads.


 
  Have you tried doing a "reset" with both devices?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, ive done the reset to both. I had thought maybe it was maybe that it only took 1080i or something but that wasnt the case.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I had the real remote to this thing. Its probably some syncing issues that can probably be turned off. Maybe its overloading the ps3 somehow.


----------



## calpis

Your PS3 hdmi problems might just be that the PS3 doesn't like  hdmi v1.1 spec devices.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn it. 

Can you think of any way to circumvent this? Maybe getting old school HDMI cables in hopes of throttling the signal down to Hdmi 1.1 levels? Not sure how the tech works.


----------



## calpis

Sadly, I don't think that'll work.
   
  Have you tried powering on the PS3 first then the receiver and then the tv?


----------



## Impulse

Not sure it'll help with the PS3 issue at all, but as far as dealing with the receiver in general you could try and see if there's any guides online for it or Marantz's old lineup... If the manual's anything like my Denon's it's probably a joke, you can surely figure stuff out on your own but having it spelled out can save a ton of time. The guide/FAQ that's out there for Denons is absolutely amazing, better than any manual could ever be.

My receiver not only lets you rename the inputs but you can completely re-order them so 1 isn't really 1 anymore (and will then map to a different remote button)... I've had family members make a mess of it in the past and my setup is relatively simple (it's just 3 HDMI devices and one composite hooked up, with a spare HDMI hooked up to a long cable for cameras/PC/etc). Oh and a date >>>>> futzing with a receiver, seriously. 

Are you using the Annies straight off it right now or from the hp output to your Compass?


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> *Manual here.* Once you get it all hooked up and setup correctly, you will enjoy it  Regarding the component issue. I don't believe it converts analog sources to hdmi. So for all analog sources, you should run a set of component cables from the receiver to the tv.
> 
> -Erik



Troubleshooting section is on page 43.
Looks like plugging in headphones is supposed to switch away from speaker output... But then, I suspect Mad's soundbar is connected via the RCA "Tape" recording output, which would continue receiving sound. Cuz, you know, Mad loves his headphones but doesn't own "real" speakers  There's some stuff about HDMI troubleshooting too.




mad lust envy said:


> I wish I had the real remote to this thing. Its probably some syncing issues that can probably be turned off. Maybe its overloading the ps3 somehow.



I had ONECALL.net share a link for remote replacements recently, I'll see if I can dig it up. May not be worth buying though. *Edit:* lol, it's just remote.com

I'm glad the Annies sound great off of the receiver!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, setting up this damn receiver is an absolute pain in the ass.
> 
> They couldnt have called the inputs 'INPUT 1' etc?... I have to remember which one is under the *VCR *input, *TAPE *input, etc.


 
   
  Good God...how old is that thing!?


----------



## Evshrug

OOOH, and almost forgot, new topic "article" on my thread, Can you hear the bitrate difference, and some headphone tests.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I was supposed to go see the potential love of my life, and told her I was busy trying to figure this BS out, and I wouldn't be a good date with my mind so preoccupied.


 
  Mad, human interaction is more important than electronics. Electronics can be purchased again. They'll always be around. They don't have feelings. People on the other hand... Come on man.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, btw, so, if one is using a receiver, then how shall I do the mixing of the chat and what not? I'm thinking the Steelseries is the only way?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, while I still don't understand even 5% of what the Receiver does, I was able to get my all sources to have sound in specific inputs (though horribly mislabeled). I can live with this, though I'm still quite upset at my PS3 not working.

edit: Seeing that PDF, I can see that there are monitor outs that will let me see an on screen menu, which would probably be a HUMONGOUS help. 

WOW, I navigated these menus WITHOUT the TV! LMAO. This would've been MUCH easier!


----------



## raband

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, as soon as I plug the ps3 into the receiver it freezes. I have to unplug the power for the ps3. If I have it hooked up and then turn it on, the ps3 turns on, and then it just freezes once it loads.


 
   
  Stupid question, but you're not plugging the ps3 into the output are you?
   
  Have you got a Logitec remote? Chances are they'll have the commands for the receiver that you can program online
   
  edit
   


mad lust envy said:


> Unfortunately, I don't have any spare composite/component cables laying around.


   
  Works with s-video too if you have one


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> Stupid question, but you're not plugging the ps3 into the output are you?
> 
> Have you got a Logitec remote? Chances are they'll have the commands for the receiver that you can program online




Oh no you didn't just call a semi-tech geek a noob! :mad:



Seriously, no on both counts. 


WOW, I navigated these menus WITHOUT the TV! LMAO. This would've been MUCH easier! I found a rare composite cable...


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> So, while I still don't understand even 5% of what the Receiver does, I was able to get my all sources to have sound in specific inputs (though horribly mislabeled). I can live with this, though I'm still quite upset at my PS3 not working.
> 
> edit: Seeing that PDF, I can see that there are monitor outs that will let me see an on screen menu, which would probably be a HUMONGOUS help.
> 
> WOW, I navigated these menus WITHOUT the TV! LMAO. This would've been MUCH easier!




ROFL, I told you this in the post where I said to reset the microprocessor. Thought you had seen it and been adjusting settings that way already, that's why I didn't bring it up again. I understand you may have been a little excited when you saw a possible fix and skipped the rest of the post, lol.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HMM! Okay... so.... there is some new settings I haven't seen, including one that is for HDMI, which is 'CONVERT' or 'THROUGH'. It was on convert. There is absoluitely no way to change this without having seen this screen, and I have a feeling setting it to 'through' = passthrough = it SHOULD work.

I will update....


----------



## raband

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh no you didn't just call a semi-tech geek a noob!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Lol - nah, just the only thing I could think of that "could" cause the issue.
   
  All this audio and no RCA leads? Hope the OSD gives some hints.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

EDIT: NEVERMIND...sigh, it's either the audio, or the HDMI. I have to choose one. If I enable HDMI (thus allowing me to listen to the HDMI's audio), it freezes the PS3... but if I set it on THROUGH, I can see the image, but no sound. I give up.

Okay, so the only other issue I have is that Dolby Headphone MIGHT be room 1. I could swear it sounds less processed than the Mixamp, leading me to believe it's the smaller room DH.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> HMM! Okay... so.... there is some new settings I haven't seen, including one that is for HDMI, which is 'CONVERT' or 'THROUGH'. It was on convert. There is absoluitely no way to change this without having seen this screen, and I have a feeling setting it to 'through' = passthrough = it SHOULD work.
> 
> I will update....


 
   
  Convert is needed for the receiver to process the audio, with this setting on through you are basically using the receiver as an HDMI switch. What brand of TV do you have again? I saw another thread of someone having an issue with the SR5002 and the PS3 with one TV, while it worked with their old TV.
   
  -Erik
   
  Edit: Just saw your last post, guess I should have refreshed, lol. In regards to the DH sounding less processed, I believe if you would have kept the Mixamp, you would actually prefer the receiver during an A/B test. My roommate and I both preferred the receiver, and thought it was slightly more spacious. What do you mean by room? Do you mean version 1 vs version 2 of DH?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Panasonic 65ST30 Plasma. The PC does HDMI audio fine. It's just the PS3 that dies.

A really good thing about the receiver is that it has a LOT of volume. I was able to plug in the 3DS and play some Rhythm Thief. The volume was ear exploding with a lot to spare. Even my Compass 2 maxed out doesn't come close to the volume this thing puts out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

burritoboy9984 said:


> Edit: Just saw your last post, guess I should have refreshed, lol. In regards to the DH sounding less processed, I believe if you would have kept the Mixamp, you would actually prefer the receiver during an A/B test. My roommate and I both preferred the receiver, and thought it was slightly more spacious. What do you mean by room? Do you mean version 1 vs version 2 of DH?




Dolby Headphone has 3 room modes. Most devices use Room 2.

While testing Nameless's Victor SU-DH1 (which has all three DH room modes), Room 1 was the smallest virtual space, with the least processing. Room 2 was the typical DH mode used in most devices like the Mixamp. Room 3 was an echoey mess, with a metric ton of reverb.

While I can't compare yet (I might win that Mixamp tomorrow), this DH reminds me of Room 1. Highest fidelity for DH, but not as airy as Room 2, which hurts positional cues. AGain, I'm just assuming. I did just fine with the receiver yesterday on MW2, and Avatar sounded AMAZING with it. It may as well be room 2. It's been over a week since I sold my Mixamp 5.8, and my memory is hazy.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone has 3 room modes. Most devices use Room 2.
> 
> While testing Nameless's Victor SU-DH1 (which has all three DH room modes), Room 1 was the smallest virtual space, with the least processing. Room 2 was the typical DH mode used in most devices like the Mixamp. Room 3 was an echoey mess, with a metric ton of reverb.
> 
> While I can't compare yet (I might win that Mixamp tomorrow), this DH reminds me of Room 1. Highest fidelity for DH, but not as airy as Room 2, which hurts positional cues. AGain, I'm just assuming. I did just fine with the receiver yesterday on MW2, and Avatar sounded AMAZING with it. It may as well be room 2. It's been over a week since I sold my Mixamp 5.8, and my memory is hazy.


 
   
  Ahhh, I see now. Maybe that is why the Monoprice amp sounded so bad in comparison to the Mixamp. Room 3 pretty much describes how their amp sounded.
   
  Back to the PS3 issue, have you tried *this* yet? Have you tried a different hdmi cable as well? My roommates GT30 wouldn't even work with the PS3 directly until we switched to a different cable when he first bought his TV.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tried three different cables of three different brands. No matter what, the PS3 freezes, and I have to unplug it and go through the error screen...

Trust me, it just doesn't wanna play nice with the receiver.


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe you could pass through the PS3 video to still use USB, but select to use Optical for the audio? My entry-level receiver lets me select the audio source independently from video. Still think that, as proficient a semi-tech-geek you are, you might've overlooked something (like the OSD you missed earlier).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I'm using the optical now. I have no problem there. I just really wanted audio through HDMI for less cable clutter. I don't think this receiver does the lossless DTS and Dolby Variants anyways. No that it matters, as I'm using headphones, and DH only needs the standard stuff.

I've tried all manner of settings. As long as HDMI audio is enabled, the PS3 freezes.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I'm using the optical now. I have no problem there. I just really wanted audio through HDMI for less cable clutter. I don't think this receiver does the lossless DTS and Dolby Variants anyways. No that it matters, as I'm using headphones, and DH only needs the standard stuff.
> 
> I've tried all manner of settings. As long as HDMI audio is enabled, the PS3 freezes.


 
   
  When I get home I'm gonna lug my receiver upstairs into his room and try it. If I get a solution, I'll let you know. I really like puzzles 
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I'm using the optical now. I have no problem there. I just really wanted audio through HDMI for less cable clutter. I don't think this receiver does the lossless DTS and Dolby Variants anyways. No that it matters, as I'm using headphones, and DH only needs the standard stuff.
> 
> I've tried all manner of settings. As long as HDMI audio is enabled, the PS3 freezes.


 
   
  Did you try this?
   
   


> HDTV Not Automatically Detected after Resetting Video Output Setting
> With certain televisions, the PS3 may not automatically detect the HDMI source (TV) which it is plugged into, even after resetting the Video Output Setting (as described above). If resetting the Video Output Setting did not work, you may need to follow these steps to manually locate the HDMI source:
> 
> Connect both the AV Cable and the HDMI cable from the PS3 to the corresponding (AV and HDMI) ports on your TV.
> ...


 [/quote]

   
   
  -Erik


----------



## Hailin

I know this isn't a music thread. But since I have put the Annies away for resale. I pulled out my trusty CALs and have been listening to this mix. The bass in it is fantastic. A little bit of Dub, Electro and Drum and Bass. 
  HowlanDub on the Electronic thread posted it. All thanks go to him. 
  How I missed thick deep bass. I always love being reminded how awesome the CALs do bass with the HM5 pads on.
   
  Sorry for derailing the thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, yeah. The CAL is closed. An open headphone will never match the euphonic bass distortion of closed headphones. If bass was top priority, the Annie is definitely nowhere near the top. The Annie's bass is slightly over neutral, while the CAL and 990s are highly past neutral.

Youre comparing a warm, bass heavy headphone to a warm, balanced one. 

Way different.


----------



## jazh23

Hello, I need a pair of headphones for gaming, I'm among the Sennheiser HD 419, Beyerdynamic DT 235, JVC HARX900 (btw, it looks very heavy), Superlux 668B and Samson SR850.
   
   
  Thanks in advance...


----------



## Hailin

mad lust envy said:


> Well, yeah. The CAL is closed. An open headphone will never match the euphonic bass distortion of closed headphones. If bass was top priority, the Annie is definitely nowhere near the top. The Annie's bass is slightly over neutral, while the CAL and 990s are highly past neutral.
> 
> Youre comparing a warm, bass heavy headphone to a warm, balanced one.
> 
> Way different.




Don't believe I was comparing them. Just mentioned I was enjoying the bass after using the Annie's for the past week or so.
But since you crave a comparison.
The Annie is technically superior in every way except bass. it has depth and quality but lacks impact. The mids allow vocals to push thru in some cases maybe a little to far to the point of fatiging if you are not used to the sound. i also didnt find the soundstage and positional accuracy to be that hot i would get very confused at times. this was in halo and borderlands2. i am not having the same problems with the CALs. 
Overall I wish I could keep them for stuff like portishead, daft punk, LOTR soundtracks anything where mids play a big part. Where they rest on my jaw line is very painful. I know now AkG in general is not for me due to their pad diameter.
With the Annie's I was hoping they would give me that out head feeling of the HD598 but they just don't. Could just be my head shape and ear shape that are causing the difference sound other people are hearing and I am ok with that. I want a DT990 with mids which I think is probably an impossible task. Hoping the HE400 helps towards that goal. 

Sorry got long winded and this was a pain to type on my phone.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





jazh23 said:


> Hello, I need a pair of headphones for gaming, I'm among the Sennheiser HD 419, Beyerdynamic DT 235, JVC HARX900 (btw, it looks very heavy), Superlux 668B and Samson SR850.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance...


 
  Sorry, but the members here could help you alot better if we had more information. Try answering these questions
   
  Price range?
  Games that you play?
  Do you want competitive or fun headphones (do you want to hear footsteps and know where gunshots are coming from, or do you want explosions to sound awesome)
  Are you playing in surround sound?
  And will these headphones have different uses?
   
  I think that should help us a bit more to help you


----------



## Impulse

Price range is probably somewhat defined already given his current list (<$65), but yeah, answers to the rest of the questions would help in recommending one or two of those choices over the rest. You don't have to answer the third question in an absolute way, it's just to give others an idea of which way your preference leans.

The Superlux and Samson lean towards the more analytical/competitive end of the spectrum, whereas the JVC's got way more bass and possibly a fun immersion factor (more comfortable too IMO, tho they're very large). The Senn I haven't heard in a while tho I'd guess them to be somewhere in the middle. None are a bad choice if you're on a tight budget, just depends on what your preference or priorities are.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I spent some time listening to the Marantz with the Annie, and I'm pretty impressed by it's sound quality. It's definitely not as clear as the Compass 2 which is more neutral, but the Marantz adds a pinch more warmth, which makes the Annie a little more pleasant and forgiving. If the Annie is close to a Q701 with the Compass 2, the Annie is like an HD650 with the Marantz. Of course, that's a gross exaggeration, but that subtle difference is there.

I'm very happy with its gaming and movie sound quality, which really does best the Mixamp by a noticeable amount. It's that fullness, that lack of hiss, and less processed sound that makes it worthwhile. I'm still unsure on its DH being Room 2 or not, but having tested a few new demos like Sly Cooper, Dead Space 3, and Metal Gear Rising... the Annie and SR5002 is a pretty awesome gaming setup for sure. I certainly don't see the need to attach my Compass 2 to the mix.


----------



## Impulse

That's nice, good to see at least some AVR's out there don't skimp on the headphone amp/output!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wondering what the output impedance is on it though. Receivers tend to have high output impedances which may be why it is warmer than the Compass 2. Still the AKGs and planar magnetics aren't hampered by output impedance like most headphones. I probably wouldn't recommend using a standard dynamic low impedance headphone on it, which might make the bass sloppy and treble harsher than normal. 250ohm and up would be a safe bet, aside from something like the Hifimans and K/Q/Annies.


----------



## Impulse

Yeah, might be an issue if you ever try out the Philips X1... Output impedance isn't listed on the specs anywhere?

Are you using this at your room/desk where you also had the Compass 2? Just curious whether you're gonna be using the SR5002 primarily for gaming and then falling back to the Compass 2 for music or what...


----------



## Johnsonr520

What are you talking about when you say Annie's?


----------



## Impulse

johnsonr520 said:


> What are you talking about when you say Annie's?




AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

impulse said:


> Yeah, might be an issue if you ever try out the Philips X1... Output impedance isn't listed on the specs anywhere?
> 
> Are you using this at your room/desk where you also had the Compass 2? Just curious whether you're gonna be using the SR5002 primarily for gaming and then falling back to the Compass 2 for music or what...




Nope, those specs aren't usually disclosed. Well, I'll be having the Mixamp on the way. Also, it's not like output impedance is the final word on quality. I used the D7000 (25ohm) with the Headzone which has a ridiculously high 100ohm output impedance, and it sounded amazing. 

I was A/Bing with the Marantz near the Compass 2 for awhile, but I moved them to their own separate areas on opposite sides of the room. I'll be using the Compass 2 for music and standard PC use, and the Marantz for everything else. I have to see if the PC will take advantage of the Marantz DH capabilities with my animes, etc. It did sound over processed, but I'm not sure how to set up my VLC and MPC players. I wonder if the Marantz will even convert multi channel audio into DH that isn't DTS and Dolby Digital.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





impulse said:


> AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition


 
  Are these any better than the original version? As in is the price justified


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering that I find them superior to the HE400, HD650, and HE4, I say they are worth it and then some. Of course, it's hard to swallow the fact that the other AKGs sell for less than $300. Still, if you bought those + Annie pads + attempted to mod the new headband on, it'd put you right near the cost of the Annie, without the retuning of the drivers, and without the wicked color scheme and limited availability.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Im starting to save up for my next pair since my hd558 are more of a budget pair since my turtle beaches broke. I have to debate between my love for gaming vs my love for sennheiser and music because I am debating the k702, he-400, or hd650


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the HD650. However. They will not deliver for gaming the way the Annie does. You can consider the Annie to be a more open, more energetic alternative to the HD650.

The HE400 is another beast that favors bass and treble (especially).

If you want balance, warmth, and openness with amazing technical skill for gaming, the Annies should be on the top of the list in that price range.


----------



## Johnsonr520

I always keep a Fiio e7 in my gaming loop. Would those be enough to drive Annie? And how do they compare to the 650 for pink floyd/classic rock?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

O_O. No. The E7 is a *very* weak amp. I wouldn't settle for anything less than the E11 at least when it comes to portable amps. The Annie actually sounds rather good with minimal amping, but you really would be selling yourself short by doing that, as the K702 loves a lot of power.

I recommend nothing less than the E9K, really.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Hopefully by then I will have a schiit amp/dac stack so I should be allrite. On a side note ups sucks and delayed my DSS so I gave to wait out the weekend -_-


----------



## Evshrug

jazh23 said:


> Hello, I need a pair of headphones for gaming, I'm among the Sennheiser HD 419, Beyerdynamic DT 235, JVC HARX900 (btw, it looks very heavy), Superlux 668B and Samson SR850.
> 
> Thanks in advance...




The only one of those headphones I've heard and tested extensively is the JVC HA-RX900. It's semi-open, so soundstage is pretty decent but hardly has your sound leak out (polite to others). It is pretty big, definitely a full sized can around the same size as K701 (though more bulky), yet the plastic construction is surprisingly light and not really a bother when you wear them. I used them during most of my freetime for a week with the TopPop mod, which really cuts down on resonance and increases the definition and tightness in the bass, which in turn balances the rest of the freq spectrum. Admittedly, I liked them for music more than my AD700 or Sennheiser PX100 I owned at the time, they are an amazing value and still fun for gaming (note, I didn't have any surround stuff back then, and the AD700 still wins for soundstage, "air," weight, comfort after fixing the fit, and are freaking amazing as competitive headphones). The only downside was the pleather earpads, and after a while it would get hot in there. After an hour I would take a 10-15 minute break, which was probably good for my hearing anyway.

I bought them for my best friend as a graduation gift, and to this day they are his fav headphones (though the only more expensive ones he's purchased are some Beats he bought for portable use). His dad loved them and borrowed them all the time, until he bought his own pair.

I've read a lot of people raving about the Samson and Superlux models in that price range, too.


----------



## vanz

Hello everyone, i'm new here and i need some advice.
   
  I'm buying headphones and something to drive them properly. Main use for them would be gaming for fun (currently mostly semicompetitive World of Tanks, but sound positioning plays no role there), like 60-70%, movies 20%, music (all genres) 10%. I'll be using them only with my PC.
   
  So far I've been using HD 555s on X-fi sound card but after changing mobo (no PCI for my old X-Fi) integrated sound card for a while. HD 555s have seen a lot of usage (bought them used years ago) and pads are worn out and are starting to hurt my ears. So it is clearly time for upgrade.
   
  After searching and reading i decided on Beyerdynamic DT-990 Premium 250 Ohm (25€ cheaper than 600Ohms and as i understand not much difference?). But i'm still not sure what to chose to drive them. I'm leaning towards Xonar STX. Is that a proper choice or i need amp?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX would be an ideal match. Wait, Xonar? I thought the STX was an Asus Essence?


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> Sorry, but the members here could help you alot better if we had more information. Try answering these questions
> 
> Price range?
> Games that you play?
> ...


 
   
  Hi, I have only 60 bucks to expend and I can only buy on amazon...

 I play a bit of everything, but mostly shooters games...

 I want to hear footsteps and know where gunshots are coming from.

 Yes, I playing in surround sound, I have a Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer...

 I plan use them for gaming only.
   
  I'm no audiophile, I just want to a decent sound and above all comfortability, after all, they are my first entry level headphones...
   
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The only one of those headphones I've heard and tested extensively is the JVC HA-RX900. It's semi-open, so soundstage is pretty decent but hardly has your sound leak out (polite to others). It is pretty big, definitely a full sized can around the same size as K701 (though more bulky), yet the plastic construction is surprisingly light and not really a bother when you wear them. I used them during most of my freetime for a week with the TopPop mod, which really cuts down on resonance and increases the definition and tightness in the bass, which in turn balances the rest of the freq spectrum. Admittedly, I liked them for music more than my AD700 or Sennheiser PX100 I owned at the time, they are an amazing value and still fun for gaming (note, I didn't have any surround stuff back then, and the AD700 still wins for soundstage, "air," weight, comfort after fixing the fit, and are freaking amazing as competitive headphones). The only downside was the pleather earpads, and after a while it would get hot in there. After an hour I would take a 10-15 minute break, which was probably good for my hearing anyway.
> 
> I bought them for my best friend as a graduation gift, and to this day they are his fav headphones (though the only more expensive ones he's purchased are some Beats he bought for portable use). His dad loved them and borrowed them all the time, until he bought his own pair.
> 
> I've read a lot of people raving about the Samson and Superlux models in that price range, too.


 
   
  thank you so much for sharing your experience with me...


----------



## vanz

I think whole name is Asus Xonar Essence STX.
   
  Thanx, i will be buying that combo then.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





jazh23 said:


> Hello, I need a pair of headphones for gaming, I'm among the Sennheiser HD 419, Beyerdynamic DT 235, JVC HARX900 (btw, it looks very heavy), Superlux 668B and Samson SR850.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance...


 
  Samson SR850's are AWESOME for the price. Only negative is the pleather pads they come with (if you don't like them) and a bit of microphonics.
   
  A set of replacement velour pads fixes that.
   
  Extremely comfortable (just bend the metal bars if they clamp too much)
   
  Not sure on the price where you are, but I got 2 sets of SR850's delivered to Australia for about $60 plus 2 sets of velour pads for about $20 (I think it worked out to about $38 each for cans and pads setup)
   
  They are that good and cheap to the point that I'm tempted to buy a set to send to MLE to pass around down the chain for reviews.
   
  If I had to choose between decent cans or decent processor/dac/soundcard for gaming I'd go the decent processor and get these cans every time.
   
  Hell - postage on these costs more than the headphones (I think it was $9.99 plus $20 postage or something stupid - get 2 sets like I did and sell 1 set to cover most of the costs)
   
  MLE (or any of those in the gear rotation loop) - seriously - if you can organise to get a set (for around the prices I'm finding them at), review them and pass them round with the other gear for others to have a listen to, I'll send you the cash (paypal etc) - I got mine from:
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SAMSON-professional-studio-reference-headset-SR850-of-FIRSTCLASS-DELIVERY-to-USA-/150973232650?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item2326b4b60a&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1135
   
  http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/wang_yifei/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686 (can't remember which superlux pads fit the SR850's - it's late, I'm sleepy - they were hand stitched, fit, comfy, cheap - I think they're the ones on page 2 - the 660's etc, but don't quote me)


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





raband said:


> Samson SR850's are AWESOME for the price. Only negative is the pleather pads they come with (if you don't like them).
> 
> A set of replacement velour pads fixes that.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks, the difference between samson SR850 and superlux 668B is only the impedance and detachable cord? which one is more durable?

 Are ebay's samson, originals? the price difference vs amazon sellers is too big, and the boxes isn't the same
   
  Amazon box: 
   
   
   
  ebay box: 
   
   
  How about these ear pads: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Earpads-Ear-Pad-Pads-Cushion-For-Beyerdynamic-DT770-DT880-DT990-/200885833799?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item2ec5ba9047
   
  They are more cheaper with free shipping besides...


----------



## Evshrug

jazh23 said:


> thank you so much for sharing your experience with me...



My experience is all I have, but I'm happy to share it 
Maybe someday I'll try out the Samson's, but it's kinda hard at this point where I'm a bit past budget-Fi and feeling pretty happy with what I have. Maybe after I hear back about a steady job (kinda ashamed to admit, I applied at Wendy's yesterday... but I need income).


----------



## raband

The ebay box is for a 2-pack (2 sets of cans). Not sure what box you get if you order a single - maybe the box you listed, or just a plastic bag.
   
  I'm pretty sure they're legit - fair few in Oz on another forum have bought from that link and no complaints, plus... why would you knock-off a $40 pair of no-name cans that copy a $200 AKG style - you'd do the knock-off of the $200 set. Samson/Superlux are pretty much already a knock-off (or on OEM?) - just that they get it right occasionally.
   
  Again - not sure on the pads - I guess that outside diameter - outside diameter = pads fit? I think it matches an AKG cup and a Superlux one, but not sure of which - maybe 668 or 661???
   
  I think the bass is better in the Samson than the Superlux (haven't heard the Superlux). 
   
  Durability - doesn't seem fragile at all. Would be less concerned tossing them around than my HD650's and it's not just due to the cost. I'm sure I could throw both sets across the room and the SR850's would survive more tosses. They are cheap, but don't sound it, nor feel it (with the velour). They do look like a $40 pair though.


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





raband said:


> The ebay box is for a 2-pack (2 sets of cans). Not sure what box you get if you order a single - maybe the box you listed, or just a plastic bag.
> 
> I'm pretty sure they're legit - fair few in Oz on another forum have bought from that link and no complaints, plus... why would you knock-off a $40 pair of no-name cans that copy a $200 AKG style - you'd do the knock-off of the $200 set. Samson/Superlux are pretty much already a knock-off (or on OEM?) - just that they get it right occasionally.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ok, I'll buy with more confidence then, I've never bought on ebay before...
   
  I already have this in my cart: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SAMSON-professional-studio-reference-headset-SR850-of-FIRSTCLASS-DELIVERY-to-USA-/150973232650?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item2326b4b60a&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1135
   
  these ear pads: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Earpads-Ear-Pad-Pads-Cushion-For-Beyerdynamic-DT770-DT880-DT990-/200885833799?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item2ec5ba9047
   
  This canare cable: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANARE-L-4E6S-STAR-QUAD-BALANCED-MICROPHONE-CABLE-BULK-UNTERMINATED-10-BLACK-/140675100331?pt=US_Cables_Snakes_Interconnects&hash=item20c0e3aeab
   
  I just need a 1/8 stereo 3 pole connector, could be any cheaper or some brand in particular?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I wonder, has anyone here tried the HD800? They must be awesome for gaming with that wide soundstage. It's probably not very cost effective though since it is well over 1K (even used) and it is very amp finicky.


----------



## Evshrug

Jazh23,
eBay has pretty good buyer protection, not 100% but they help settle disputes on the side of the customers. Besides, for $40, the eBay seller has more to gain my building a reputation rather than making one bogus sale.
Just make sure the cable you're buying works for your intended use, or you know how to terminate a cable into a connection yourself. I don't know how, but it's cool if you can 

P.S. if you don't understand what I mean by "bogus," (we have many international readers), I mean fugazi, fake, scam, imitation, not genuine.
-----


roger de ceiba said:


> I wonder, has anyone here tried the HD800? They must be awesome for gaming with that wide soundstage. It's probably not very cost effective though since it is well over 1K (even used) and it is very amp finicky.



Roger,
There is a guy who floats in here occasionally who has an HD800 and used it for gaming. He likes it, but frankly... Even if you love gaming, you're just not going to see much more benefit for soundstage over your Annies or even AD700. Now, if you're using the HD800 with a great music system, high quality audio (game audio is always somewhat compressed & surround processing is a distortion), AND you have really good ears, you might be able to tell a difference. But on a purely audio basis, and especially gaming basis, summit-Fi gear like the HD800 won't make you a better player or suddenly make you enjoy bad games.
If spending more money increases your enjoyment, that's up to you to determine. The capability difference between the AD700 to the Q701 is smaller than the jump from earbuds/cheap headphones to AD700; for me, the enjoyment increase made by that difference is only just enough to make a preference in my mind. I think after $200-300 (excluding poor value, overpriced items), you're mostly just adjusting to personal taste instead of upgrading refinement. That's just my opinion though... Maybe the HE-400 will blow away my perception of a SQ plateau.


----------



## jazh23

Thanks, I'm grabbing more trust on ebay.
   
  Too bad as I hear from another user, these ear pads do not fit, I can't find another economic velour ear pads.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Earpads-Ear-Pad-Pads-Cushion-For-Beyerdynamic-DT770-DT880-DT990-/200885833799?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item2ec5ba9047


----------



## Evshrug

Raband,
Which earpads did you buy for your SR850's?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





vanz said:


> Hello everyone, i'm new here and i need some advice.
> 
> I'm buying headphones and something to drive them properly. Main use for them would be gaming for fun (currently mostly semicompetitive World of Tanks, but sound positioning plays no role there), like 60-70%, movies 20%, music (all genres) 10%. I'll be using them only with my PC.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Usually, I'd recommend the X-Fi Titanium HD, but if you don't intend on getting an external amp, the Xonar Essence STX has what amounts to a FiiO E9 built-in. That could help with the DT990.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The STX would be an ideal match. Wait, Xonar? I thought the STX was an Asus Essence?


 
   
  The full name is the Asus Xonar Essence STX. The Essence models are more like the Xonar audiophile flagships, though that doesn't quite explain why the Xonar Phoebus is within the Essence's pricing...


----------



## Evshrug

Goes to show Mad's knowledge is focused on headphones, amps, and games 
I wonder if the Xonar Essence One (an external DAC/Amp soundcard thingie) offers Dolby Headphone and a gaming suite, or if it's just stereo audio?

Edit: nope, no gaming features on that One, just a lot of hi-Fi stereo options.
On another note, I guess I can close the tab with the manual for Mad's receiver now, huh?


----------



## raband

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Raband,
> Which earpads did you buy for your SR850's?


 
  I'm pretty sure it was these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Replacement-Cushion-Fit-Superlux-hd660-hd330-hd440-hd-330-440-660-Headphones-/251211190861?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3a7d5a924d&_uhb=1#ht_3168wt_979


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Evs,that is why I stated that it is probably not cost effective. It's the old law of diminishing returns. Most (if any) games won't benefit from a wider soundstage once you pass a certain point. Ditto for the audio fidelity.


----------



## jazh23

Quote: 





raband said:


> I'm pretty sure it was these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Replacement-Cushion-Fit-Superlux-hd660-hd330-hd440-hd-330-440-660-Headphones-/251211190861?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item3a7d5a924d&_uhb=1#ht_3168wt_979


 
   
  Looks very similar to this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Replacement-Earpads-Ear-Pad-Pads-Cushion-For-Beyerdynamic-DT770-DT880-DT990-/200885833799?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item2ec5ba9047


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Goes to show Mad's knowledge is focused on headphones, amps, and games


 
   
  That's why I think the two of us make good foils regarding audio equipment for gaming.
   
  My knowledge skews more toward PC sound cards overall, not the stuff you hook up to them. That's changing little by little, though; having auditioned a popular headphone like the HE-400 gives me a greater perspective on things, and I'm looking forward to an AKG K70x audition later on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It will come.  Gonna be very hard to give my Annie up for so long, but you'll get it in the future. I find you'll be more impressed by it's balance, vocals, and smoother presentation. As well as air. The HE-400's soundstage has a physical wall up in comparison.

I'm waiting on the X1. Supposed to be sold this month, but nothing yet. Once it does, I'll order it, compare to the HE-400 and then put one up for sale. The HE-400 still has it's place as I do enjoy it more for my preferred genres of music than the Annie, but for everything else (gaming, movies, tv shows, other genres of music), the Annie is king.

So it looks like I'm getting the 2011 Mixamp Pro (the auction ends in 2 hours), for $107 total (My Max bid was $120).

I'll be comparing it soon enough to the Marantz. I sure hope the hiss was as inaudible as the first gen Mixamp.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> I'm waiting on the X1. Supposed to be sold this month, but nothing yet. Once it does, I'll order it, compare to the HE-400 and then put one up for sale. The HE-400 still has it's place as I do enjoy it more for my preferred genres of music than the Annie, but for everything else (gaming, movies, tv shows, other genres of music), the Annie is king.




I've probably said it before but I'm also looking forward to them being available as well as your comparison, I wanna get something to complement/contrast my DT 880... Not sure how well my STX would drive them but I've got other options available.

Curious how pricing will hold up too, most of Philips new lineup from last year has come down a fair bit in the months since release (some of the lower end Citiscape models are even 50% off now as "past season" sales in non-electronics stores).


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Goes to show Mad's knowledge is focused on headphones, amps, and games
> I wonder if the Xonar Essence One (an external DAC/Amp soundcard thingie) offers Dolby Headphone and a gaming suite, or if it's just stereo audio?
> 
> Edit: nope, no gaming features on that One, just a lot of hi-Fi stereo options.
> On another note, I guess I can close the tab with the manual for Mad's receiver now, huh?




It'd be quite the rarity, but I can see why there's no such thing out there... DH processing and the gaming market in general is sort of at the opposite end of the spectrum than high fi gear like that. The STX is about as high end as it gets for an all-in-one solution for DH + a DAC or DAC/amp.

I think there's definitely a market out there for something like that...

Sort of like a high end Mixamp. SC/Astro could tackle it, they just have to make it versatile enough that it'd be worth the jacked up price (they wouldn't wanna cannibalize their own market). I mean if the STX can sell for as little as $150, how much more can an external console-compatible solution run?

It'd compete directly against potentially cheaper AVRs but DH is becoming increasingly rarer amongst those (not to mention decent headphone amping), and not everyone has the space for one or the need for the extra features that come with one.


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless,
I agree, you are a good compliment. Rikuu's done a nice job of adding concise descriptions. Chico helped me love my current fav headphone, and makes me laugh a lot  I've been around long enough, I want to find a good niche too... I think what I'm starting has been done before, around the net and in different publications, but I'm trying to compliment both of your purchasing guides (and your computer set-up tips) by offering answers to commonly asked questions. I hope that someone can come and read about headphones (and a few amps & surround units) here, and if they ask about sound cards we refer to you, and if they ask about a topic I've covered, you guys could just link to one of the topics on my thread instead of repeating yourselves often. Paradox of selfish want for attention and the desire to help others, lol.



roger de ceiba said:


> Evs,that is why I stated that it is probably not cost effective. It's the old law of diminishing returns. Most (if any) games won't benefit from a wider soundstage once you pass a certain point. Ditto for the audio fidelity.



Roger, so long as you know I wasn't saying you were wrong!
Some people say that the soundstage on even the AD700 is unrealistically big, and they like a more intimate soundstage. I don't find that to be the case for me, but I could understand that "too big" could happen.


----------



## vanz

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Usually, I'd recommend the X-Fi Titanium HD, but if you don't intend on getting an external amp, the Xonar Essence STX has what amounts to a FiiO E9 built-in. That could help with the DT990.


 
  I would go for external amp but getting STX only instead of Titanium HD and FiiO 09 combo is like 80€ cheaper. Effect would be quite the similar as far as i understood. Especially if won't be moving them around and use them on other sources.


----------



## Impulse

Depends on the sales you catch I imagine... The STX bounces a lot between $150 and $200. The Ti HD's price has fluctuated even more since it's essentially discontinued or soon to be, I've seen it under $70 during Best Buy clearance sales (of all places). I'm sure you can score deals on the E9 too now that there's an updated version. The STX is a very good value IMO tho, very happy with mine.


----------



## tmaxx123

I may go out on a limb and get the MMX 300 gel ear pads just to see if they would sound better/ be more comfotrable. But they are sold out on the Beyer site, and I can't find them anywhere else. Has anyone ever tried these gel pads, as I am not sure if the effort/ price is worth it? (52 shipped from tbe beyer site) -_-
   
  Are they really this rare? lol Anyone know where else I can look?


----------



## Impulse

Gel? Sounds like they'd be heavier, possibly warmer. What kinda pads do the MMX 300 come with? Don't the standard DT 770/880/990 pads fit them?


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Gel? Sounds like they'd be heavier, possibly warmer. What kinda pads do the MMX 300 come with? Don't the standard DT 770/880/990 pads fit them?


 
  They come with Velour pads, which aren't uncomfortable per say, but they aren't as soft and don't have as much "give" as I would like to last 4-5 hour gaming sessions.
   
  And that's what I was going to ask, if anyone knows if the pads are all interchangeable, because 52 bucks is pretty steep. Especially if I won't even be sure if they will fit. haha


----------



## Evshrug

Tmaxx,
I would actually hypothesize that a gel earpad would feel harder. Have you ever laid in a water bed? It was too weird for me to get used to... Sure, the shape easily conforms to your body, but pneumatically the water always takes up the same amount of volume (space-filling physical volume, that is) so once the liquid takes up all the slack in the sack it just feels like a hard surface. Foam varies how stiff it resists you based on how much pressure you apply, so maybe a gel earpad is better when you have an odd, hard point (was going to say protrusion) on your ear and you want the pressure evenly distributed, but a more typical ear/head might just have lighter pressure (the "normal" force, if you take physics) overall with velour-covered foam cushioning.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the Mixamp is definitely on it's way.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Tmaxx,
> I would actually hypothesize that a gel earpad would feel harder. Have you ever laid in a water bed? It was too weird for me to get used to... Sure, the shape easily conforms to your body, but pneumatically the water always takes up the same amount of volume (space-filling physical volume, that is) so once the liquid takes up all the slack in the sack it just feels like a hard surface. Foam varies how stiff it resists you based on how much pressure you apply, so maybe a gel earpad is better when you have an odd, hard point (was going to say protrusion) on your ear and you want the pressure evenly distributed, but a more typical ear/head might just have lighter pressure (the "normal" force, if you take physics) overall with velour-covered foam cushioning.


 
   
  Interesting thoughts, thank you!
   
  The gel pads seem wider from a side by side comparison of the velour. From the pictures, it seems like they would come in contact with more surface area, and as you hinted at, distribute force from the clamp of the headset. My mmx's aren't uncomfortable but I find myself adjusting them periodically, and it gets bothersome sometimes. But this is all just hypothetical.
   
  Would love to see if anyone has any first hand experience with the gel and can share their thoughts. Was about to just buy the gel ones for 37 bucks, but then beyer tacks on a minimum 15 dollar shipping!!! Maybe because it ships from germany?? Crazy.


----------



## Evshrug

I wonder if a hybrid earpad, foam topped and gel foundation, would ameliorate some people's complaints about the AD700 pressing uncomfortably against their jaw, yet barely touching the top of their ear. The gel would allow the foam part of the earpad to angle in any direction to sit flush with the ear/head shape.

Ameliorate? I must be more tired than I thought! Goodnight people, sorry again johnsonJr about not getting on Xbox, I'm in a morning-person rut (bleh!).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The gel would be hotter than pleathers. Hell no.


----------



## Evshrug

What if it was breathable foam layer on top of a gel layer, all wrapped in velour?


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> What if it was breathable foam layer on top of a gel layer, all wrapped in velour?


 
  hahaha sounds nice, but doesn't sound very affordable! 
   
  i know there must be SOMEONE on here with gel earpads on a pair of Beryerdynamic headphones, who has some insight on how their feel!
   
  Honestly, if they could make the velour on the mmx300's as soft as the astro a40 pads, I would be veryy happy.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Aw, you all are one big happy family  Notice anything btw? lol


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

There is clamping on the mandible by the annies but it is not uncomfortable at all. High bone density FTW. 

Evs, think about the old "if a tree falls down and no one its around to hear it" riddle. It will make a sound... except no one will hear it if they are not within a certain distance. It's the same for games.

I guess I just answered my own questions. Still, part of me would like to try it someday. I want to know where that point of diminishing returns lies as far as quality/soundstage. Plus, according to that massive guide by DavidMahler, the HD800 are truly neutral so it would be the perfect (if expensive) test.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Should we have noticed anything soa?


----------



## Impulse

Something in his sig maybe? Mobile interface doesn't show them so I dunno...


----------



## Johnsonr520

I was on desktop but idk. But I love and hate this thread so much! It's the reason I got my hd558s which I love but I already want to spend the money on Annie's! Lol damn head'fi. I say instead of making our wallets lighter, we are stimulating the economy! It makes me feel better. And speaking of spending money, what is a good budget Dolby receiver for headphones?


----------



## chewynuts

Hi Guys,
   
  I live in a college dorm and need some advice on which headphones to buy for late night gaming.
  Read the entire list of reviews and still can't make up my mind; I have some very specific requirements for this pair of headphones.
  Let me share my background to give you an idea of what i'm looking for.
   
  The main difference in my purpose is that I'm a PC gamer and thus, don't need a mixamp to decode DTS signals.
  I am an avid gamer and audiophile, I enjoy one as much as the other
   
  I primarily play Battlefield 3 and Natural Selection along with the occasional Space title that usually comes with an epic soundtrack (Endless Space). I believe, like the rest of the posters here, that clear, directional sound gives you an edge in whooping ass.
  Music-wise, I listen to a large variety from House to Classic Rock to Korean Pop.
  I was huge into the in-ear/headphones scene back in 2006-7 and eventually graduated to speakers, and am now utterly lost moving back into headphones. I currently use UE10Pros with an iBasso DX100 for my portable rig.
  Back home (in Singapore), I used to run a very decent pure-audio rig with a Meitner MA-1 -> Mimetism Integrated 15.2 -> Focal Diablo Utopias.
  I had to sell the setup to fund my college education *sadface*, also, space constraints and drunk college students prevent me from building a rig of those proportions.
  With that in mind, you could say that I like my music signature to be neutral, with a touch of warmth and a little hot on the treble.
   
  I'm looking for headphones and/or DAC/Soundcard which are:
  1. Combined cost of below $400; buying used would be great
  2. I'd like my computer rig to be in the ITX form factor and thus, won't have space for a decent soundcard, all I will have is the Realtek ALC892 Integrated chipset. If you guys feel strongly about getting a decent soundcard instead of a DAC/Amp combo, I am willing to move to an ATX motherboard so I can add that in
  3. Able to wear comfortably for long hours
   
  Also, if you have advice on a decent pair of PC speakers equally adept at gaming and music, please share it.
  I'm looking at the (in ascending order of price), Logitech z623, Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, Corsair SP2500 and Swan m50w (which are out of stock everywhere).
   
  Thanks for reading this long post and thank you for your advice in advance.


----------



## Params7

Question - Using my PS3 as source mainly, for competitive gaming - I've decided to go for AKG Q701 and DX Mini clip-on with Astro Mixamp 2013. My question is, will this all work out with the ps3 without requiring anything else? Will the Mixamp have enough power to drive the Q701 and the DX voice boom?
   
  Thanks. Great OP btw. I have only been using gaming with Tritton AX720's since 3 years now, so this thread opened my eyes.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Well, yes, my sig did change. I scrapped the guide idea, as I don't really have the time for it. The biggest thing is the least posts per page that I've had lately. I've attained balance


----------



## Johnsonr520

So bragging in 2 post about posting less??? Lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





chewynuts said:


> I live in a college dorm and need some advice on which headphones to buy for late night gaming.
> Read the entire list of reviews and still can't make up my mind; I have some very specific requirements for this pair of headphones.
> Let me share my background to give you an idea of what i'm looking for.
> The main difference in my purpose is that I'm a PC gamer and thus, don't need a mixamp to decode DTS signals.
> ...


 
  Please get the ATX, to get a internal sound card.
  Sound Blaster Zx sound card.
  Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.
   
  You can usually find some used Klipsch Promedia 2.1 for under $100, there are better 2.1s, but cost a lot more then used ProMedia 2.1.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> So bragging in 2 post about posting less??? Lol


 

 -.- Hush sir, lol. You should really just go back to see what I'm talking about. Go back like, who knows when I got in here, SEVERAL pages. You'll see, haha.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Oh don't worry we all remember


----------



## Impulse

johnsonr520 said:


> I was on desktop but idk. But I love and hate this thread so much! It's the reason I got my hd558s which I love but I already want to spend the money on Annie's! Lol damn head'fi. I say instead of making our wallets lighter, we are stimulating the economy! It makes me feel better. And speaking of spending money, what is a good budget Dolby receiver for headphones?




You're not alone in that feeling, clearly...  Before last year I had never spent more than $50 on a pair of headphones, although I had some decent bang-for-buck bargain stuff (and had a pair of HD555 on loan for a while, probably a mistake!).

Spent the year researching and upgrading my IEM, portables, and home headphones with the purpose of "being done with it" for a while... But now I just keep coming back looking for something else to try.  Mainly with regards to my home headphones since that's where I've experimented or sampled the least, PITA living where I do.




chewynuts said:


> I'm looking for headphones and/or DAC/Soundcard which are:
> 1. Combined cost of below $400; buying used would be great
> 2. I'd like my computer rig to be in the ITX form factor and thus, won't have space for a decent soundcard, all I will have is the Realtek ALC892 Integrated chipset. If you guys feel strongly about getting a decent soundcard instead of a DAC/Amp combo, I am willing to move to an ATX motherboard so I can add that in
> 3. Able to wear comfortably for long hours
> ...




Nameless' thread might be the better place for this discussion, tho neither thread is really about speakers... I will say this tho, as someone who went thru three or four pairs of computer speakers when I was in high school/college, you're probably gonna be disappointed by any of those; specially coming from the setups you do.

The Swan are easily the best, and priciest obviously (and Swan stuff comes in and out of stock randomly like that), but if I were you I'd just assemble something together with a small desk t-amp (decent Toppings are like $50-100) and some passive bookshelves, maybe add a sub later if you crave more bass.

It's just a more flexible way to build up or upgrade IMO... If the amp blows, just replace it, etc. Though there's some decent and compact powered monitors out there if space is a big concern. The Samsons in my profile (or the MediaOne line) are pretty underrated, they're a much better value than something like the Audioengine A2 and not much larger (the A2 are nice for the size but rather overpriced IMO).

Passives + a tiny amp are still the better value tho... I'd just ignore most PC speakers tbh, you can always pair powered monitors of any size with a sub too, tho depending on the source or sub input/outputs it might not be as ideal.

As far as the DAC, the primary reason to opt for a sound card on a PC over an external DAC is virtual surround processing for headphones (i.e. Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D). If you want that you'll want at least a low end Xonar ($50) and then you can use whatever amp etc. The STX is a good value if you want a decent amp as part of the package tho...

If you don't care for any kind of surround processing you can get whatever DAC... Either way I think you'll definitely want to upgrade from on-board sound, but the DAC/amp shouldn't gobble up your budget IMO. ASUS had a low profile Xonar aimed at HTPCs at one point but I know little about it.


----------



## Impulse

purpleangel said:


> Please get the ATX, to get a internal sound card.
> Sound Blaster Zx sound card.
> Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.
> 
> You can usually find some used Klipsch Promedia 2.1 for under $100, there are better 2.1s, but cost a lot more then used ProMedia 2.1.




I agree, unless space is just that much of an overriding concern you're just gonna have an easier time in general with an ATX case... Less sweating over fitting everything in and easier to score a better value. There's some pretty small mid towers out there, you don't have to get a 20lb monster.

I'm partial to the DT 880 myself obviously but you'll want a decent amp for it... Been reading good things about the Zx, tho I've no clue how it's virtual surround stacks up against older cards.

The Promedias are a waste of $100 unless you just want a rafter shaking one note sub tho, I'm usually not that blunt or crass but I just don't think they're worth $100. No sub at that price point's gonna be spectacular anyway, but much less a sub that's forced to make up for underpowered/undersized satellites.

I'd sooner recommend blowing the entire budget on source/amp/headphones than waste any money on the Promedias (or most PC speakers, and there's far worse sadly), but that's just me.

If you guys think the headset market in general is vastly undeserved and not generally a good value proposition, you should take that and multiply it by a thousand, that's what the PC speaker market represents (even compared to the lowest budget bookshelf speakers).


----------



## Impulse

double post, not double the pleasure unfortunately


----------



## Impulse

params7 said:


> Question - Using my PS3 as source mainly, for competitive gaming - I've decided to go for AKG Q701 and DX Mini clip-on with Astro Mixamp 2013. My question is, will this all work out with the ps3 without requiring anything else? Will the Mixamp have enough power to drive the Q701 and the DX voice boom?




Will the Q701 work off the Mixamp? Yes. Will they sound ok? Yeah. Will you be getting the most out of them? Not really... If you're at the limit of your budget already you could always go with it and add an amp later tho, or consider other headphones.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So the Mixamp is definitely on it's way.


 
   
  Cool. 
   
  I'm interested to see a Receiver + HP amp Vs. Mixamp + HP amp comparison.
   
  Did you already try the receiver HP out jack _alone _Vs. receiver + HP amp comparison and come to any conclusions?


----------



## chicolom

Hmm...how do you change your avatar to one you've used in the past and is already uploaded to your "avatar gallery"?  Is there an easy way to do that or do you have to reupload every time?


----------



## Evshrug

First, I want to apologize, _buuuuuuuuut_ I want to respond to a number of posts, lol 



chewynuts said:


> I primarily play Battlefield 3 and Natural Selection along with the occasional Space title that usually comes with an epic soundtrack (Endless Space).
> ...
> I had to sell the setup to fund my college education *sadface*, also, space constraints and drunk college students prevent me from building a rig of those proportions.
> 
> ...



Am I too late to chime in too?
Chewynuts, my first college roommate was from Singapore, he was a real stand up guy who was kind of like an older brother to me, and came to college later because he had to serve in the military for a while (did you?). When I say roommate, I was in a double room with him, and there was another double as part of our suite. Sadly, even though I was in the honor's dorm, the other two guys connected to our space were also into being stupidly drunk, and they were always leaving our door open, crowding lots of people in for parties, and the rich one tried to pin me down and force me to drink a shot because I was uncomfortable and not wanting to drink yet. Luckily for me he was too drunk to keep a good hold, but then I started waiting to come home every night until 4:30 am... A big part of why I dropped out before transferring to a new school later. Always lock your door, and if you have roommates agree on a time the door shuts. 

But enough history! For your ITX desktop (I understand dorm desks can be tight sometimes), couldn't you fit a low-profile sound card, like Asus' entry-level gaming cards (like the DX)? If not, you should still be able to accommodate a mini-ATX computer, which gives you more room for expansion and long-term upgrading. I would like to see some reviews of creative's new Z-series lineup too, but if soundcards are out you can at least get an Asus Xonar U3 or Creative X-Fi Live! Go thumb drive sound processor.

If you can afford it, the AKG Q701 is welcome to come home to, and is a great all-rounder, especially nice for gaming. Another option, if you want more bass and hot treble, the DT990 seems to fit your taste perfectly. Some people don't like how hot the Dt990 treble goes, though. Cheaper, the closed AKG K272hd is supposed to sound warm with a nice midrange, if you want more bass the DT770 or KRK-something-beyer-clone delivers. I really like the AD700 as a great bang for the buck, but people may find it bass lacking, and lately I've seen more people recommend Superlux and Samson models (see previous page), but I also like the JVC HA-RX900 (with the effective TopPop mod) at that price range because to my ears it has good soundstage but more bass than the AD700 (it's semi-closed). Just some ideas.

I also understand the interest in speakers. Nice to relax to without fuss, great to share a movie or tunes with friends. I loved when people liked to visit me. The reality of a Dorm, though, is you may not be able to have a subwoofer. Size matters, yes, but subwoofers are impolite to your neighbors all around you. I'd read great things about Audioengine's monitors, though now I'm interested in Samson's  Cheaper is better though, you will be in a small room and you never know if you'll have to replace everything. Though not hi-Fi, I found the $30 Logitech speakers adaquate for sharing movies and casual listening.
If you want a whole kit with passive speakers... I suggest an Asus U3, Audioengine N22 integrated amp, HA-RX900 (modded), Pioneer SP-BS22 LR passive speakers (newegg.com sometimes has a pair of these for 50% off!), forget a subwoofer until you can afford an apartment and a model from PSB. The Audioengine amp has a great headphone amp, but also drives speakers well. You probably have your own ideas about speakers, but the Pioneers (and the previous SP-BS41 LR model) deserve some research.



johnsonr520 said:


> I was on desktop but idk. But I love and hate this thread so much! It's the reason I got my hd558s which I love but I already want to spend the money on Annie's! Lol damn head'fi. I say instead of making our wallets lighter, we are stimulating the economy! It makes me feel better. And speaking of spending money, what is a good budget Dolby receiver for headphones?




Budget? Erm... Used vintage model I guess. We just went over how Marantz (and one receiver mentioned on Dolby's page) are the only current-production receivers with specifically DH.




soamusing777 said:


> Aw, you all are one big happy family  Notice anything btw? lol



He has met with Buddha, and now seeks zen balance! Ommmmmmmmm...



params7 said:


> Question - Using my PS3 as source mainly, for competitive gaming - I've decided to go for AKG Q701 and DX Mini clip-on with Astro Mixamp 2013. My question is, will this all work out with the ps3 without requiring anything else? Will the Mixamp have enough power to drive the Q701 and the DX voice boom?



Yes. Will sound like an improvement to your Trittons. Nice thing is, in a semester or two, you can add an amp and enjoy an upgrade with your Q's. There will be more headphone amps out by then too, hopefully the reviews will shed light on a good one. I like the FiiO E12 I'm testing, it's like having an E9 in your pocket. It's a very neutral amp, with very clean output.


----------



## eNemy-

Anybody have an idea if AKG K512/K514 MKII any good for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

eNemy,
  Here's the "best for gaming surround" checklist.

 Open-backed
 No bass bloat
 Good soundstage and a sense of "Air"
 Detailed upper-mids and treble, to reveal footsteps and positional cues more accurately
 Good separation/layering, so you can easily focus on reloads and footsteps/breathing even amongst gunfire & explosions
  I haven't heard the AKG K512 or variants, but do you think it fulfills the checklist?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Hmm...how do you change your avatar to one you've used in the past and is already uploaded to your "avatar gallery"?  Is there an easy way to do that or do you have to reupload every time?




I think once you look up one of your old avatars, there is a link on the bottom right that says 'original'. It will open up the image in a gray background. Copy that link and paste it when wanting a new avi. It will keep it from popping up multiple times (I learned this the hard way).






chicolom said:


> Cool.
> 
> I'm interested to see a Receiver + HP amp Vs. Mixamp + HP amp comparison.
> 
> Did you already try the receiver HP out jack _alone_ Vs. receiver + HP amp comparison and come to any conclusions?




I actually haven't bothered attaching the Compass 2 to the Receiver. I feel the receiver does just fine for gaming purposes. I may eventually try it, but it's not a priority.

I know it's been a long time coming, but I'm gonna start writing the Annie review today.


----------



## Evshrug

I thought you could use an old avatar by clicking your avatar (to get to your profile), clicking view avatars, and then there's a bubble that'll let you pick an old one again.

Anyway, wish me luck... Starbucksks interview.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think once you look up one of your old avatars, there is a link on the bottom right that says 'original'. It will open up the image in a gray background. Copy that link and paste it when wanting a new avi. It will keep it from popping up multiple times (I learned this the hard way).
> 
> 
> I actually haven't bothered attaching the Compass 2 to the Receiver. I feel the receiver does just fine for gaming purposes. I may eventually try it, but it's not a priority.


 
   
  So you have like 1000 avatars in your "avatar gallery" by now, or what?
   
   
  I thought part of the point was to cancel out whatever high output impedance the receiver's jack had with another amp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I thought you could use an old avatar by clicking your avatar (to get to your profile), clicking *view avatars*, and then there's a *bubble *that'll let you pick an old one again.
> 
> Anyway, wish me luck... Starbucksks interview.


 
   
  I see none of those things.  You can click your avatar, which shows your avatar gallery, but there's nothing to do there except look at your past ones AFAIK.  You can also click "replace avatar", but you can only add new files by uploading or importing via url, but not pick old files already uploaded.  That's all I see...
   
  Good luck!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> So you have like 1000 avatars in your "avatar gallery" by now, or what?
> 
> 
> I thought part of the point was to cancel out whatever high output impedance the receiver's jack had with another amp.




Yes, but that's if I was using headphones that would be hurt by output impedance. The AKGs and planar magnetics really don't. I'd show the graphs from Innerfidelity, but the site is down.

I figure you followed my intrustions on replacing the avi?


----------



## eNemy-

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> eNemy,
> Here's the "best for gaming surround" checklist.
> 
> Open-backed
> ...


 
   
  Well since I couldn't find any detailed review I asked the people who uses them.
  AFAIK it has closed design. But someone said "sound very much like an open headphone in a closed design"
  Users say that it isn't bass oriented and it has "bright sound with good sound stage". They also told me that "trebles are very very clean and they reach very high frequecies"
  I couldn't find any information about speration/layering. I might get the chance to try one this week so...
   
  Actually it kinda confuses me why there is not many reviews or users? I mean even here.
  Well thanks anyways* Evshrug*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some closed headphones work rather well for gaming (like the Fostex equipped Denons, D2000, D5000, D7000) and DT7770, MMX300. However, most closed headphones tend to choke the soundstage, which hurt it's ability to project souds around you convincingly. This is why an open headphone with a medioum to large soundstage is highly recommended. It's not the final word on whether they'll be good for gaming or not, but it helps.

Also, I don't think an emphasis of treble is necessary. Stuff in the higher range is pretty easy to hear as long as as a headphone has good detail up there. Even the HD650 with it's really smoothed over treble was QUITE detailed for gaming. It was it's soundstage that really hurt it from being as good as it could've been.

The most important thing sound-wise is that the bass not be too powerful, and mids not too pulled back and smothered by bass (like I feel the DT770 Pro 80 tends to do).


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Will the Q701 work off the Mixamp? Yes. Will they sound ok? Yeah. Will you be getting the most out of them? Not really... If you're at the limit of your budget already you could always go with it and add an amp later tho, or consider other headphones.


 
  For my two cents... It took a while but with the help of this post I ended up with and bought in this order.
  Mixamp Pro (2010)
  Q701
  Objective2 amp.
   
  I absolutely love all three. The Mixamp is a great solution for console with good features. The Q701 is usable with the Mixamp though mixing in the Mic will seriously impact the Mixamps ability to drive the Q701. Without Mic it is adequate. That being said the addition of the Objective 2 was a very noticeable improvement. IMO one should not consider the Q701 unless you are prepared to shell out for an amp at least after a while as I did. I was happy with the Q701 without one but can honestly say that I was missing out before. 
   
  I built my O2 for about $80 for all parts and shipping, including some upgrades. However, do not build your own unless you already have some experience, tools, static protection and such or it will end up costing more than a finished unit. Also, even if you have all of the above it's a pain. I only built my own because I knew I could build it properly and I wanted that peace of mind.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I figure you followed my intrustions on replacing the avi?


 
   
  Yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It added a duplicate avatar to one I already had though.  Pretty annoying.
   
  I'm betting 50% of Head-fi's servers go towards handling _your _avatars!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, I have over 400 images, with a ton of duplicates. 

That's like a new avatar every 20 posts, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Ah Snap!
   
  EVshrug was right.  His instructions just weren't very good 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  If you click your current avatar to go into the avatar gallery, you then need to click "edit photos" button on the top right.  That then takes you to a page that lets you reuse previous avatars by selecting them with a radio button.  You can also delete old avatars. 
   
  So the "Replace my avatar" button is only for adding new ones.  Everything else can be done by managing the previous ones in the "edit photos" menu of the avatar gallery.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All this time, I never knew this! Damn head-fi and it's confusing system. 

Still, I have to scroll through hundreds of images just to get to the 'save changes' button. I'm too lazy!


----------



## chewynuts

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> First, I want to apologize, _buuuuuuuuut_ I want to respond to a number of posts, lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  A big thank you to all who have responded to my post. I'm taking my time with this setup as I don't want to have commit on something and then get hit by upgraditis. In response to Evshrug; yes all healthy and fit Singaporean males are conscripted into national service for a period of 2 years. That period of discipline definitely does wonders for academic performance in your university years afterwards. I'm happy to hear that a fellow countrymen was there to help you out. I'm definitely the oldest and neatest on my dorm floor, haha.
   
  I feel like I might go for the Soundblaster Zx + Beyer DT880 route as Creative's CMSS3D tech seems to have one up on the aging Dolby Headphone. Also, going for a dedicated DAC will cause me to lose out on the virtual surround software.
   
  As for PC speakers, of course I expect to get exactly what I pay for; it's just which pair gives me that bang for buck?
  I think going for passive separates with an active T-amp is the best option, unfortunately that would require another few days of research and deal hunting which I could otherwise spend catching up on my readings lol.
   
  Decisions, decisions.
  Once again, thanks guys!


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> All this time, I never knew this! Damn head-fi and it's confusing system.
> 
> Still, I have to scroll through hundreds of images just to get to the 'save changes' button. I'm too lazy!


 
   
  End key - Page Up - Page Up... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Head-Fi's profile/account page is rather confusing indeed tho.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I see none of those things.  You can click your avatar, which shows your avatar gallery, but there's nothing to do there except look at your past ones AFAIK.  You can also click "replace avatar", but you can only add new files by uploading or importing via url, but not pick old files already uploaded.  That's all I see...
> 
> Good luck!



Unfortunately, at the interview they served me coffee (who'd a thunk it?). The caffeine plus some nervousness made me speak rather long-winded as I tried to remember my best moments to answer the manager's questions. I might still get the job, but the second half of the interview wasn't IMO very attractive.

I just tried the avatar thing. Click your avatar (to get to your profile), click your avatar (naavi?) again, click "edit photos," and you'll see a column of your avatars and the option to "use this as my avatar" under the photo description text box.
*Edit:* Ah. AH. I see you figured it out. I wrote this post without seeing the others made since Chewynuts' last post. Good for you for figuring it out, please forgive my poor earlier instructions as I was in a rush & _slightly_ preoccupied.

Chewynuts,
Shi-tren was indeed a good friend, self-assured and a great reflection on your country. I also picked up the habit of keeping a window open for fresh air whenever possible from him, and a love for StarCraft/DotA.

The U3 I mentioned simulates surround using Dolby, but the X-Fi Go! uses CMSS-3D, so I was making virtual surround suggestions. Creative's solutions do indeed have the advantage of height surround in addition to front/back/sides, but just so you know the new Z-series cards have moved from CMSS-3D to SBX Pro Studio Surround. SBX still has full 3D surround (while Dolby is 2D), but I don't yet know anyone who's given a full review on it. SBX may just be a rename of THX TruStudio Pro that creative used in their last generation cards (notice how similar the names are), dropping the THX brand name to save a few $$. So far I enjoy THX the best of all the headphone simulations I've heard. I'd love to hear what you think of the new cards 

I was interested in the DT880 myself, they're reviewed as very transparent and balanced. My taste! I thought you wanted more bass & treble, a "smiley face" frequency response. Regardless, the DT880 is a very well-reviewed headphone 

My final suggestion was based on the cheapest, bang-for-buck fully system setup I could think of. The T-amp and integrated amp serve the same function, amp for headphones and passive speakers. The Audioengine N22 may not be the best bang for the buck, but it'll be better than the Topping T-amp and quite good overall. If you research and find something better for speakers AND headphones, I'd be interested to hear it.


----------



## whiskaz

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just wondering what the output impedance is on it though. Receivers tend to have high output impedances which may be why it is warmer than the Compass 2. Still the AKGs and planar magnetics aren't hampered by output impedance like most headphones. I probably wouldn't recommend using a standard dynamic low impedance headphone on it, which might make the bass sloppy and treble harsher than normal. 250ohm and up would be a safe bet, aside from something like the Hifimans and K/Q/Annies.


 

 I couldn't find any info on the output Impedance on your receiver. The manual for mine, a Yamaha V-667, states:
   
*Output/Impedance- 1mV/560ohm*
   
  Using it to drive the HE-400s I had to crank the volume about 6-8dbs *above *my loudest listening level (with speakers and with the DT990 Pros). The thing shutdown at one point, which has never happened. I picked up an E17 to try and with it plugged into the headphone out (double amped) I can turn the Yamaha down by about 15-20dbs with the E17 at around 56-60, 0 gain. It seems to work fine for movies. I hear some hiss but I honestly think it's just ambient noise in the movie- it generally goes away or changes when the scenes do.
   
  That said, I thought I had settled on the HE-400s for movie watching but now you have me curious about the Annies. Do you have to turn your receiver up much more than you do when using speakers? Like I said, the DT990s were OK at the same level I run my speakers at. The HE-400s were not. I would be curious about the Compass2 double amp'd with your receiver and the Annies also. I plan to give the Asgard a shot, double amp'd, soon.
   
  It's crazy they won't let you do an analog out from a digital input - except for the headphone jack. Piracy issue? Sure it doesn't do video... but it would be nice to be able to hook an amp up and use the receiver as a DAC since it down mixes DD/DTS and all that jazz. Essentially, treat headphones the same way you treat speakers (allowing pre outs for a separate amp).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not sure how to read that 1mv/560ohm spec. I don't think that's the same thing as headphone jack's output impedance. That seems illogically high for almost any headphone, but who knows? Ideally, you'd want something along the lines of less than 3ohm output impedance, but I have heard that output impedances way higher than a headphone's impedance causes euphonic distortion which makes it more pleasing or something.

The Annie and HE-400 need close to similar volume out of my amps, FWIH. I'll have to double check once I get the HE-400 back.


----------



## whiskaz

Well, maybe I read it wrong too. Here it is, straight from the V-667 manual:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That certainly does make it seem like it's 560ohm. That is the highest I have ever seen on any device, ever. O_O

Insanity. Not sure how that alters a headphone's frequency response though. I'm used to impedances not being the ideal 1/8th or less, like say the Fiio E9 having a 10ohm output, which isn't ideal for anything less than 80ohms, but never an output impedance being astronomically HIGHER than a headphone's impedance, aside from using the Headzone with it's 100ohm output with the Denon D7000's 25ohm impedance which I didn't really hear any issues.

My assumption being that such a huge amount of output impedance would mean a lot of power being sent to a headphone which funnels it down to less. Not sure about the science of it all.


----------



## Evshrug

^Possible topic for my thread?
I didn't see the headphone output impedance for your receiver either, though the video out jacks (and RCA audio I assume) are 75 ohms, and the Input impedance is 47 *k*Ohms O_O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, input impedances tend to be REALLY high. That's a good thing. The higher, the least distortion. Think of it like a 600ohm headphone having less distortion than a 32ohm.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Why don't I get the dd light to turn on on my dss and Xbox playing halo


----------



## Naed

Hey, I'm thinking about upgrading from my ATH-M30s paired with a Zalman mic  and hooked up to board to the CAL, a ModMic, and an Asus Xonar. Would this upgrade also be good for listening to music?  Specifically I'll be listening to alternative, grunge, and some classic rock.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering I feel the CAL stacks up to the M50 sound quality-wise, I'd say it'd be a step up, though I have not heard the M30s. The CAL is also more open sounding than the M50 and much better suited for gaming.

Not sure on your taste in music, as the CAL is warm, slightly reserved, and not exactly quick for those genres of music.


In other news, I'm about 40% done with the Annie review. Got to finish it later, as I have things to do.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Okay I figured out my problem so I have a better question. I dont have a digital optical cable for my dss so I use the aux in using a 3.5mm cable. Due to this, the dolby digital doesnt turn on, only the plix light. Does this affect my sound or no. If so should I buy a digital optic cable or will it sound the same.


----------



## Scarfather

Not sure if I have a faulty device, but I've tried using a few mics with my Astro Mixamp and Sennheiser HD595. I purchased a Y adapter and the headphones work fine but the mic doesn't. Am I doing something wrong?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

johnsonr520 said:


> Okay I figured out my problem so I have a better question. I dont have a digital optical cable for my dss so I use the aux in using a 3.5mm cable. Due to this, the dolby digital doesnt turn on, only the plix light. Does this affect my sound or no. If so should I buy a digital optic cable or will it sound the same.




Yes. You absolutely need optical or you're not getting Dolby Headphone.

Scarfather

What system? System settings? Xbox controller cable from the Mixamp to the 360 controller? Default communication device on the PC set to the Mixamp? Etc.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Lust, is there any stores in this area that would sell one so I dont have to order it?


----------



## Scarfather

mad lust envy said:


> Scarfather
> 
> What system? System settings? Xbox controller cable from the Mixamp to the 360 controller? Default communication device on the PC set to the Mixamp? Etc.




PS3 system.
Everything set to the mixamp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

scarfather said:


> PS3 system.
> Everything set to the mixamp




Use the first usb slot to attach the Mixamp. Go to accessory settings and make sure the device is the Mixamp.



johnsonr520 said:


> Lust, is there any stores in this area that would sell one so I dont have to order it?




Walmart, Target...


----------



## Scarfather

mad lust envy said:


> Use the first usb slot to attach the Mixamp. Go to accessory settings and make sure the device is the Mixamp.




Yeah, did that, but for some reason it only doesn't detect the mic. Audio comes in through the headphones but nothing goes out thru the mic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I get that same problem. Try the other usb slot. Make sure the voice/game knob on the Mixamp is halfway. You'll get it eventually. Its a pain at times.

What does the default device say?


----------



## Johnsonr520

Oh i thought it was too specialized for walmart. Ill head there after class then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Optical cables are standard for audio equipment, lol.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Lol ive actually never needed one before sadly. Ive always had cheap audio before this


----------



## Scarfather

Nothing, seems to work fine with the iphone headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its the PS3. Try a different usb cable.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Lust what games do you play on xbox?


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





scarfather said:


> Nothing, seems to work fine with the iphone headset


 
  Sounds like you bought a HEADPHONE splitter and not a HEADSET splitter. A headphone splitter splits the audio so 2 sets of headphones can be used to listen to the same source. A headset splitter splits a headset jack (i.e. iphone headset jack) into a headphone jack and a microphone jack so you can use a headset that uses a headphone plug and microphone plug.
  This is the correct Y-Splitter that you should be using: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nvm


----------



## Scarfather

calpis said:


> Sounds like you bought a HEADPHONE splitter and not a HEADSET splitter. A headphone splitter splits the audio so 2 sets of headphones can be used to listen to the same source. A headset splitter splits a headset jack (i.e. iphone headset jack) into a headphone jack and a microphone jack so you can use a headset that uses a headphone plug and microphone plug.
> This is the correct Y-Splitter that you should be using: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/




Guess you are right. Didn't think of that. The mixamp I purchased did not bring a female to male adapter.

Thanks.


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





whiskaz said:


> Well, maybe I read it wrong too. Here it is, straight from the V-667 manual:


 

 Hmmm, it is poorly worded but I would read that more as the output it can provide when used with headphones of a given impedance - i.e. with 8ohm headphones and a signal at 1kHz, the reciever can provide a 50mV output. The ellipsis represents the range of headphone impedances the reciever can drive (so from 8ohm headphones up to 560ohm). What this means for the impedance of the headphone jack I'm not entirely sure but if they are listing an output level for headphones as low as 8ohms then I would assume the impedance on the jack is nominal.
   
  Again, I'm not entirely sure as I'm no expert but that's my interpretation. I believe Schiit used to provide info on the jack impedance of their amps in a similar manner until enough people complained about it.
   
  On an entirely different note: My X1's are due to arrive tomorrow! Will put a post up sometime after I get them with my impressions though I'll only have my memory of the HD650 and my current set of PC360's for comparison (might be able to grab a friend's Q701s but that's not guranteed).


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> Lust what games do you play on xbox?



Johnson! I've been fooling around on Xbox all afternoon! Why didn't you inv me to party or something? I think I even sent you an invite while you were on the dashboard. I could've told you about the optical cable too!

The optical cable has enough bandith for the DD 5.1 surround, you have been feeding it only 2 channels of audio.


----------



## Rebel975

Do you have a multimeter? It should be pretty easy (I would think?- I haven't actually done this myself) to measure the output impedance if you have one. Just use a male to male headphone cable and measure from the exposed side?


----------



## Evshrug

I have a. Multimeter... But I don't know how to really set that up.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> I dont have a digital optical cable for my dss so I use the aux in using a 3.5mm cable. Due to this, the dolby digital doesnt turn on, only the plix light. Does this affect my sound or no. If so *should I buy a digital optic cable* or will it sound the same.


 
   
  Oh my...
   
  : |
   
...Yes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, if you game on a HDTV, you shouldn't use composite cables either.  I recommend HDMI


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Johnson! I've been fooling around on Xbox all afternoon! Why didn't you inv me to party or something? I think I even sent you an invite while you were on the dashboard. I could've told you about the optical cable too!
> 
> The optical cable has enough bandith for the DD 5.1 surround, you have been feeding it only 2 channels of audio.


 
  I tried joining you actually. I have a connection problem with my modem and some people. It happens every once in a while. I have the next 2 days off so ill try to fix it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

johnsonr520 said:


> Lust what games do you play on xbox?




No longer have an Xbox, sadly. I only play CoD and Castlevania Harmony of Despair online (both Xbox and PS3). Otherwise, I'm a single player kind of guy.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> I have a. Multimeter... But I don't know how to really set that up.




What meter is it? It's not very hard, should have two leads and a dial that selects what you measure (unless it's a fancier unit). It's not as simple as just hooking it up to a male-to-male cable tho, you need a resistor to compare with/without and an appropriate sample audio file (and then do some basic math).

I'd post a link but the place where I've seen it explained best is at he-who-shall-not-be-named's blog, and I already got one warning from a mod for linking to that. Tyll has a nice article about it at Innerfidelity too bit it's ironically penned by the same person so I dunno if that's fair game or not.

This whole censorship issue is kinda ridiculous but whatever, I can PM some links if ya want.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nearly done with the Annie review.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

So I received my cable the other day, now all I have to do is mount it to the wall. *Impulse*, how did you mount yours again?


----------



## Impulse

What cable? Ethernet? I used those removable slot hooks they sell at Home Depot, one every three feet or so, so it holds the cable steady with minimum droop. Ran it along the wall near the roof. Lemme take a pic of one...

Edit: They sell all sorts of different ones for different purposes, I'm using the most discrete (middle one) for an ethernet cable + phone extension.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Cool, I'm going to look into them. Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, but that's if I was using headphones that would be hurt by output impedance. The AKGs and planar magnetics really don't. I'd show the graphs from Innerfidelity, but the site is down.


 
   
  Would anyone care to explain this to me? I still really don't understand much about impedance..


----------



## chicolom

Nice Clarinet!!  LOL 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Should I even ask?
   
  Good review, as usual - and as usual, It's all reading _very _promising for the anniversaries.  It sounds like they're going to holding onto a top spot in their bracket for quite some time.
   
  After all it's NOT easy for a headphone to pull off the x70x caliber of soundstage, _especially_ while sounding full. It's tricky, as the bassier and warmer a headphone sounds, the more it can hinder the soundstage size and performance.  AKG seems to have a knack for striking an impressive balance between the two though, and it sounds like it's something they've just further improved and refined with the anniversary.
   
  I can see some headphones pulling off the signature, and _maybe_ some pulling off the soundstage (less likely), but doing them both at the same time...that's seriously tough to beat.


----------



## Evshrug

A well-written review Mad, certainly wish I could jump on this limited edition. On another note, I like the writing, but then you're starting to write like me: stream of conscious but takes a minute to make it's point. I write like this because I feel I need to qualify my analysis, and I'm sure many people lap up all the info they can whilst in the throes of desire, but just know sometimes less is more. I wouldn't know how


----------



## whiskaz

Quote: 





fulch36 said:


> Hmmm, it is poorly worded but I would read that more as the output it can provide when used with headphones of a given impedance - i.e. with 8ohm headphones and a signal at 1kHz, the reciever can provide a 50mV output. The ellipsis represents the range of headphone impedances the reciever can drive (so from 8ohm headphones up to 560ohm). What this means for the impedance of the headphone jack I'm not entirely sure but if they are listing an output level for headphones as low as 8ohms then I would assume the impedance on the jack is nominal.
> 
> Again, I'm not entirely sure as I'm no expert but that's my interpretation. I believe Schiit used to provide info on the jack impedance of their amps in a similar manner until enough people complained about it.


 
  Ah, interesting! That makes sense, I suppose. While I'm not entirely clear on what it all means, I know from practice that my AVR has more difficulty driving the HE-400s on its own than it did the DT990 Pros (250ohm).


----------



## tdockweiler

Still think that someday you should try the K601 and add them to your list. Just to have heard it..
  They're not as warm as the Q701 or Anniversary edition, but might have a tad more mid-bass. They also have less treble.
  They have some of the best imaging of any headphone i've ever heard. They also don't have the detail of the Q701, but close.
  They're actually warm compared to the K702!
   
  I think they're one of the most underrated headphones ever for gaming. Someday I could loan them to you.
   
  I also think you should give the Koss Pro DJ100 a try ($55!!). It has HD-650 quantity of bass and you might prefer it to the KSC75. It's dirt cheap too.
  It's like a more aggressive sounding HD-650. More treble and more forward upper mids. Fairly well balanced. The bass extends pretty low and isn't that rolled off IMO.
   
  Not really my idea of a true DJ headphone.
   
  One of my favorite gaming headphones was the ATH-AD2000, but I won't go there.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Surprisingly I also loved the MDR-SA3000 for gaming, but it had really forward sounding mids. I got rid of it because it sounded so close to my K702 I had at the time.


----------



## MadDogz

I just won $700 at the casino (yay!) and now I'm looking to splurge as I have a ****ty usb headset (Corsair HS1).
  I've been thinking about picking up the K702 Anni as a multimedia headphone (gaming, music, movie) after all the positive reviews but I had some concerns.
   
  I've always used closed headphones up to now cuz i felt it would provide better immersion/keeping background sound out. Never used an open headphone before. Will going to the K702 (open headphone) be a huge difference? In MLE's review, he said that the K702's are great immersive headphones. Still true if there is some background house noise (4 university roommates...)?
   
  Another reason I've stayed away from open headphones is because I need a mic for games. How bad is the leakage from K702's? Would it be hard to use with something like a mod mic?
   
  I'll obviously need a sound card. Will the Essence STX be enough for the K702's?
   
  Last question. I've also been thinking about the MMX 300. But I've read so many posts where people are saying that it isn't worth it as it is basically a DT770 with a mic. The MMX 300 costs the same as the K702... Has anyone tried both of them and can verify? Would the MMX 300 2012 facelift be the best closed headphone in the $400 price range?
   
  Thanks so much in advance! This will be the first time I'm spending over $100 on a headphone setup, let alone around $700 (with sound card). I'm really expecting it turn my brain to mush and then make it implode from greatness. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 hehe


----------



## Impulse

Sound leakage won't or shouldn't be a problem with a decent mic... Plenty of us use open headphones with clip on mics or stuff like the ModMic boom mic without issue. Sound leakage would seem like a whisper to the mic, at most. The STX should be a solid all-in-one choice if the Annies aren't any more demanding than my Beyers...

As far as background noise tho, if your roommates are horsing around or playing music/movies in the same room you'll clearly be able to hear them with any open headphone. Open headphones can immerse you in the sense that the bass can be powerful and the sound stage can make you feel like you're in the game world, but immersion is one thing and isolation another.

If you're in a constantly noisy environment you might simply need to opt for closed headphones (or two headphones, one open and one closed  ).The AKGs you're looking at and the DT 770/MMX 300 are very different sounding headphones, the 770's are considered pretty bass heavy even amongst closed headphones... 

Closed headphones with good sound stage aren't very common tho. What kinda music/gaming are you into?


----------



## MadDogz

Thanks for the quick response
  I don't particularly have one type of game that I play more than others. I play pretty much everything rpg, fps, mmo, single player action, everything gets their turn.
   
  Hmm, I see what you mean about immersion and isolation.
  There is pretty much some sort of noise always going on in the background throughout the day.
  I might have to just get a closed headphone.
   
  The MMX 300 makes me apprehensive since MLE's DT770 review was pretty mediocre.
  Maybe the new MMX 300 2012 facelift 600ohm would be better but it's hard to find any info/reviews on it (that's not in german) right now.


----------



## Evshrug

MadDogz,
Wow, congrats!
First of all, the immersion factor kinda depends on how talkative and distracting your roommates are, with ANY headphone. IMO closed headphones don't cut out that much sound, and the AKG "semi-open" headphones, such as the k702 Anniversaries and the Q701 I have, actually leak out less than many other open headphones I have or have heard. Someone in the same room will hear them, but not anyone next door. Can you ignore them if you're playing with speakers? Keep in mind it'll be easier to understand game stuff because the Annies will sound very clear.

Worst case, you can use your current headphones if you need to close them out some.

The Asus Xonar Essence STX has an amp about as powerful as a FiiO E9, so you'll be off to a pretty great start and may be set for good. Since you have the money, I would also suggest you look into Creative's new Sound Blaster ZxR, it looks very impressive and has a few further surround capabilities over the Asus models. NamelessPFG is a good source of sound card info, but those are my recommendations to start looking at.

We have a MMX300 user (and big fan) who's been posting often here, he can tell you more about that, BUT as far as using an AKG with a Modmic or even a lapel mic, the open nature of the headphone is no problem. My friends have never been able to hear my game audio from my Q701s, it won't be a problem for you.

There are some great headphones around $100, but if you've never heard a good effort from an audiophile company before, you'll be very impressed with the Annies! Lucky son of a...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wanna clarify that my DT770 review was for the 80 ohm which is very bass heavy, and a 600ohm which was unlike what I was led to believe about it being very neutral to slightly bass shy (like a closed Q701 or something). What I got was a very bass bloated headphone. I honestly should take that review out of the guide because I feel I got a dud.

The MMX300 (which is basically a 32ohm DT770) should have the amazing depth and positioning that I loved about the DT770 Pro 80, without the bass bleed. I'd love to try it out one day.


----------



## Impulse

Well, the amount of noise that closed headphones can muffle or block out will vary largely from model to model and also depends on what you're actually playing thru them. For instance, my on-ear M-80 aren't the most isolating hp (being on ear rather than circumaural), but if I've got music playing at a decent volume they'll still easily block out most noise at an airport terminal or other public places.

I can still hear something that's intentionally louder than the background noise (like a PA announcement) but it sounds like mumbling unless I pause the music. On ear headphones that clamp harder than the M-80 can isolate nearly as much as some of the least isolating IEM (tho the average IEM still does a much better job of it), tradeoff's comfort.

With full sized closed headphones isolation comes down to how good a seal the pads create around your ear (pleather's obviously better at it, though not a must) and how well the cups themselves are sealed. Headphones like the CAL or Aviators are technically closed but don't isolate much because the cups aren't sealed at all.

With noisy roommates I think isolation would be a bigger issue than leakage... If they're just talking amongst themselves and it doesn't bother you to be aware of that, then open headphones could work regardless... Unless your game's particularly quiet you probably won't make out their conversation. Like I said before tho, if they're horsing around or playing music/movies over speakers at all hours you'll really want closed headphones.

Best Buy should have some open headphones to try out if you just wanna get a feel for how you perceive your surroundings with them on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900, DT770s, and obviously the MMX300 by extension are amazing at isolation. 3 velour padded headphones that do keep out noise quite well.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





maddogz said:


> Thanks for the quick response
> I don't particularly have one type of game that I play more than others. I play pretty much everything rpg, fps, mmo, single player action, everything gets their turn.
> 
> Hmm, I see what you mean about immersion and isolation.
> ...


 
  mmx 300 user here  
   
  Love mine! MLE's review of the dt770's was accurate in relation to the mmx's, except that his 770's must have been the "bass heavy" version. (He really hit it on the nose about how accurate the sound positioning is!)
   
  I have no issues with the mmx's being too bassy at all. But then again, I am playing on the mixamp's "pro" setting, which eq's out most of the bass.
  The 2013 a40 is an open headphone that I have experience with, and in comparison, I like the immersion and overall sound signature of the mmx's. 
   
  So I am not sure how the annies would compare, but I didn't really like the a40's in a competitive use because of the fact that they are "open". I made a makeshift contraption (if you will) that sealed off the a40's, and they sounded ALOT better, imo. I could pick up on directional cues better and it became alot more "fun" to listen to.
   
  I would definitely recommend the mmx's tho, because aside from sounding AMAZING, the mic is by far the best one I have ever tested. And i have used a wide variety of gaming headsets. My only gripe with the headset it the clamping pressure can get to you after a 3+ hours of playing. But I assume this could be alleviated by bending/stretching out the metal headband. 
   
  let me know if you have any other questions


----------



## Impulse

soamusing777 said:


> Would anyone care to explain this to me? I still really don't understand much about impedance..




http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2011/11/14/output-impedance-show-and-tell

Hey man, here's a Sound + Vision article about amp output impedance (and headphone impedance in general) that's probably a much easier read than the links I PM'd you earlier. It's not as technical as some other articles on the matter and it glosses over a couple of facts but it IS technically accurate for the most part and the author uses some very good analogies.

Even the frequency response examples are very easy to follow and they perfectly illustrate why some headphones are more affected by an amp with high output impedance than others.

The only thing I don't really agree with is the conclusion, it makes it out to be a matter of taste to an extent... Which is fine, some people love high output impedance tube amps for these very reasons, but that makes sound reproduction a combination of your amp + headphones and anyone without the same exact amp won't hear the same thing even if they have the same headphones.

An amp with a low output impedance is less likely to impart it's own coloring to the sound so it's all up to your headphones to do that. Output impedance for speakers is sort of standardized for this reason (and the article touches on why it's never happened for headphones, it's practical and market reasons more than anything, not a technical hurdle).


Edit: An amp with high output impedance will also interact differently with various headphones whereas the low output impedance amp will be more consistent (or compatible if you will).

It's not, really a new concept, it's just been getting renewed attention as people demand more transparency from amp manufacturers and more companies jump into the game. Tyll was bemoaning the same exact situation over ten years ago on Head Fi:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/17238/headphone-impedance-vs-headphone-jack-impedance


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In other, somewhat similar news, certain headphones, like the (Sennheiser 595 for example) are rated at 50 ohms. However, at certain frequency ranges, their demand of power jumps up to something over 300ohms! This is why I always say, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN AMP WITH PLENTY OF POWER.

People swear by say a Fiio E11 for 250ohm headphones. The E11's max output is for 300ohm headphones. There are certain headphones like the HD650 which is 300ohms rated, however, with certain ranges of sound, where it suddenly spikes up to over 500ohm, making the E11 'choke' at the sudden jump in power demand. You may not hear it, but the bottleneck is there, in that the impact is significantly lessened to what it should be.

In the case of planar magnetics and rare dynamics like the K702, the impedance curve is VERY linear, meaning there won't be a sudden spike in required voltage, though they do need lots of steady current.

You can always settle for less, but you're doing you and your equipment a disservice by doing so. For gaming overall, using say a K702 with the Mixamp alone is doable, because the virtual surround processing masks imperfections. That and games don't tend to have the best sound quality to begin with. Still, you won't be tapping their potential whatsoever.


----------



## Serradoss

Hey MadLustEnvy,
   
  First of all congratulations for your great and especially detailed guide. I'm sure a lot of people thank you for all the effort you put into this. I found this guide because of a Headset Review of the Gaming Youtuber LevelcapGaming. I wanted to ask you whether you have tried the Logitech G930/G35. I own it and I think it is quite good but I want some improvement! I have heard from different sources that it is nearly just as good as the Astro A40s. What do you think?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. If it's not on my guide, I either have not heard it, or isn't a headphone logical for gaming (i.e. ESW9, PX200-II, ES7, etc).


I haven't heard the Logitech.


----------



## calpis

This post scared me since we don't even have the X1 here yet:
  http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929678/philips-exits-the-consumer-electronics-business
   
  Let's just hope that Funai continues to advance the Fidelio line.


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





calpis said:


> This post scared me since we don't even have the X1 here yet:
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/29/3929678/philips-exits-the-consumer-electronics-business
> 
> Let's just hope that Funai continues to advance the Fidelio line.


 

 Read this earlier today, there have been stock shortages in Europe as well and, as you correctly stated, the X1's still aren't available in the US yet but I guess this could be the reason why.
   
  I was out when my X1's were delivered but I'll be picking them up tomorrow


----------



## calpis

Looked into what Funai has done and what they have... They have _popular_ walmart brands such as Emerson, Sylvannia, and Symphonic under their belt.
   
  My hopes have been dashed


----------



## Johnsonr520

So I got my DSS working in dolby digital with my hd558 today. I have to say I am more impressed than I thought I would be. The positional accuracy while playing Halo 4 was unbelievable. I don't think I've ever had a K'D this high. Ill post more of a review on it later. Maybe Lust would like to borrow the hd558 and add it to the reviews in comparision to the hd598.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Als will the foam mod on the hd558 remove some of the bass?


----------



## Serradoss

I think it's actually quite a "famous" PC gaming headset. Here have a look at it: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Gaming-Headset-Surround/dp/B003VANOFY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359506785&sr=8-1&keywords=Logitech+G930


----------



## Impulse

As part of their purchase from Philips, Funai actually has the rights to continue using the Philips brand for 5 years and even the right to renew the deal... I'm cautiously optimistic they won't throw away everything Philips built up over the last year, they easily have one of the most improved headphone lineups amongst mainstream manufacturers with good retail presence (top to bottom, not just the Fidelio line). 

Funai may very well be looking to go upscale, specially if they already own more pedestrian brands. There's various similar news links on the X1 thread, the bit about using Philips branding for five years was in the last one posted. The deal isn't final until much later in the year and I think the X1 has been showing up again (or it's expected to) on EU Amazon sites, so I'm not sure it's at all related. Deals like this take months to finalize. They're getting quite a range of products outside headphones too.


----------



## billybobjones

sorry if this has been asked before, but I need something for competitive PC gaming.
   
*For soundcard I am looking at the:*
  Asus Xonar STX Essence
  Asus Xonar Phoebus ROG 
  (if someone has a better recommendation feel free)
   
*For headphones im looking at:*
  Sennheiser PC360
  AKG Annies (i think id prefer these)
   
*I need voice chat. (team games)*
   
*1. Would those soundcards be enough to power them with voicechat?*
*2. What would a solution be to power them while on the road with voice chat(lan parties)?*
*3. Which one is the better choice for my needs/positional cues?*
*4. Is the headband on the annies leather (the part that would touch your head)?*
   
*thanks in advance*


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> In other, somewhat similar news, certain headphones, like the (Sennheiser 595 for example) are rated at 50 ohms. However, at certain frequency ranges, their demand of power jumps up to something over 300ohms! This is why I always say, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE AN AMP WITH PLENTY OF POWER.




Yeah, that's one of the great examples in that article, many headphones behave very differently at certain frequencies and the specs don't reflect that. A low impedance headphone might very well have a much higher impedance at a specific frequency and/or demand more power.

A high output impedance amp would thus handle certain frequencies on that headphone very differently than others, so instead of getting that frequency graph you saw in a review you're getting something else entirely. Looser bass due to distortion, more forward mids, etc depending on what's going on.

Maybe it's pleasing to you, maybe it isn't, but it wasn't how the headphone was tuned to sound (and thus by consequence the music).


----------



## BetaWolf

A general question for every Head-Fi gamer, though mainly Mad Lust Envy: in terms of "Fun", as described in the guide, what's with the focus on bass? Is soundstage factored in? I've been using CMSS-3D for over two years, and find that positional audio does add into the fun factor (i.e. hearing a wolf howling off in the distance, hearing a zombie's footsteps directly behind you, etc.)
   
  I'm considering the Sennheiser HD 598 for "Fun" gaming (as described in previous paragraph), and a slightly recessed bass isn't that big of a deal for me.


----------



## Evshrug

billybobjones said:


> sorry if this has been asked before, but I need something for competitive PC gaming.




To be honest, this is asked pretty much every day. 

•I recommend you decide on a headphone best suited for your taste based on the guide in this thread (first page, you can expand any review for more info).
•Before deciding on a sound card, decide on a surround tech. I have an overview on my thread. 
•If you decide on a Creative sound card, NamelessPFG has a guide on optimal setup and he is our resident PC equipment guru. If you decide on an Asus sound card, Purple Angel has some ideas of which cards offer the best bang-for-buck in that product line.

Most soundcards provide decent amping and may leave you feeling satisfied, but you can always experience a slight upgrade by later buying a nice external headphone amp. If your soundcard fits inside your LAN box computer, then obviously that would suit your LAN needs too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bass is important for immersion. A distinct lack of bass, detaches you from the action, IMHO. The 598 didn't immerse me nearly enough, and the mids were far too prominent and distracting for my ears.


----------



## ruuku

Think of MLE's fun factor as a rating as to how immersive a headphone is. Does it transport you into the game? Do you feel as if you're actually there? I believe that's what MLE's trying to convey in his fun factor. Sure positioning and soundstage help, but so does a good amount of bass. Deep sub bass (for many) add to a fun factor in headphones.


----------



## MadDogz

Thanks for all the quick responses guys.
   
  I don't think I'm ever going to be in a truly quiet environment and as such, am leaning toward a closed headphone.
  At school, roommates are always going to be making noise. And even at home (have 2 brothers and a sister), it's never going to be quiet.
  Isolation is a huge part of game immersion for me and I don't want to be hearing any background noise when I'm gaming/watching a movie.
  A shame after hearing all this good stuff about the K702 Anni but I don't think i'll ever be in a quiet enough environment to truly appreciate the headphones.
  Maybe my trip to bestbuy tomorrow to see what open headphones sound like with a bunch of people around will change my mind...
  I've also heard it said a couple times that the K702 Anni's are "semi-open". Can someone explain this? Is "Semi-open" as in provides better isolation than normal open headphones?
   
  Pretty much narrowed it to mmx 300 or a K550 if I'm going for a closed headphone.
  If anyone else has recommendations for a closed headphone, please let me know.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





billybobjones said:


> sorry if this has been asked before, but I need something for competitive PC gaming.
> 
> 
> For headphones im looking at:
> ...


 
   
  I'd recommend the PC360s.
   
  For mainly competitive PC gaming the anniversaries are over-kill. 
   
  The PC360s will do just as good at positional cues and will probably sound even clearer for competitive gaming due to a less bassy and less warm signature.  They also have the mic already taken care of and are easier to drive (meaning you won't need to invest in additional amping).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





maddogz said:


> I've also heard it said a couple times that the K702 Anni's are "semi-open". Can someone explain this? Is "Semi-open" as in provides better isolation than normal open headphones?


 
   
   
  Basically it's an open headphone, but maybe with slightly less openings on it.  Semi-open doesn't mean a whole lot though.
   
  It's mainly a marketing term to differentiate headphones, like the DT880s being semi-open and the DT990's being open.  "Semi-open" also makes buyers think that it will isolate somewhere between an open and closed headphone, but that's not always the case.
   
  The AKGs don't have much isolation and they leak.  They're a little less open then some headphones like the AD700 and HD5xx, but still pretty open.
   
   
  Oops, I've said the word "open" too many times and now the word is starting to sound funny and not make sense


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I wonder what would be a good compliment to the annies for use outside of gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> I wonder what would be a good compliment to the annies for use outside of gaming.


 
   
  Are you saying you only use the anniversaries for gaming, and not outside of gaming??
   
  O_0
   
  I hear the CALs are a good compliment to anything


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Are you saying you only use the anniversaries for gaming, and not outside of gaming??
> 
> O_0
> 
> I hear the CALs are a good compliment to anything


 

 Primarily, not exclusively.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alternative? Some Dt990 pros. Unless you want to go full alternative and get closed. Pro 900 with a lot of treble reduction via E17.


----------



## gab840

How the K702 65th Anniversary hp & HE-400 hp compares to each other in terms of Gaming/Music/Movies?


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Alternative? Some Dt990 pros. Unless you want to go full alternative and get closed. Pro 900 with a lot of treble reduction via E17.


 

 Why would I do that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you mean. The Pro 900? They sound very artificial and metallic unless you tone down that bass a bit. Otherwise, theyre pretty good compliments. That bass is pretty awesome.


----------



## fayst23

hi mad lust, 
   
  what are your settings when you did test the AKG K701? 
   
  I currently got those paired up with a asus xonar essence stx soundcard. 
  I normaly use dolby headphone but some say stereo is the way to go in games.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





fayst23 said:


> hi mad lust,
> 
> what are your settings when you did test the AKG K701?
> 
> ...


 
   
  Set your Audio Channels in your Xonar Audio Center to 5.1/7/.1 and (if your game supports it) in game audio to match. Set your Analog Out or Output to Headphone. Check the Dolby Headphone box and set it to DH-2.
   
  AFAIK, MLE doesn't pc game so he wouldn't likely be able to answer your question.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What do you mean. The Pro 900? They sound very artificial and metallic unless you tone down that bass a bit. Otherwise, theyre pretty good compliments. That bass is pretty awesome.


 

 My apologies, I did mean the Pro900. I was actually thinking of something along the lines of the he-400 or maybe even a portable headphone recently. Hell, I might use the he-400 with my PS Vita when I go out.


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Bass is important for immersion. A distinct lack of bass, detaches you from the action, IMHO. The 598 didn't immerse me nearly enough, and the mids were far too prominent and distracting for my ears.


 
  Then which set would you recommend as a balanced set between "Fun" and "Competitive"? Q701? DT990? I'm still partial to the 598, since I tried on a 558 the other day. The comfort level for my particular head shape with Sennheiser's clamp design is closer to a 9.5 for me than a 7. 
  Quote:


ruuku said:


> Think of MLE's fun factor as a rating as to how immersive a headphone is. Does it transport you into the game? Do you feel as if you're actually there? I believe that's what MLE's trying to convey in his fun factor. Sure positioning and soundstage help, but so does a good amount of bass. Deep sub bass (for many) add to a fun factor in headphones.


 
  I wonder how much CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone differ. First time I heard CMSS-3D in game, it blew my mind how stuff sounded like it was coming from outside of the headphone. An AI enemy yelled at me from down a hallway. It sounded like I was there, with a voice coming off in the distance, the hallway giving the voice a hollow-sounding effect. (Note that this is just with the Creative Fatal1ty Headset MKII. http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Labs-HS-980-Fatal1ty-Professional/product-reviews/B002BH3JDA ) That drew me in more than deep bass ever could.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Question for xbox users. Since now im gaming without adjustable voice and game volume knobs with my dss, how do i adjust voice levels to a decent volume. Ive tried going to preferences and putting voice volume to 10, but it is still in-audible


----------



## Evshrug

BetaWolf,
Some people are more attracted to certain sound characteristics than others. That immersion created by a "soundscape" was huge for me, and one of the biggest differences made by the AD700 compared to any other headphone I'd heard at that point. I still love that headphone to this day, and feel especially impressed with it when paired with virtual surround. Others have told me that the AD700 is weak because the bass extension is very weak, a few others have flat out told me my opinion was wrong for thinking it was highly enjoyable to listen to.

As ruuku pointed out, there are many facets of what makes a headphone fun, and they all contribute, but personal taste creates different priorities. While I look for excellent comfort, detail/texture, and soundstage to "Wow!" me most, I have definitely enjoyed the increase of bass presence in my AKG Q701's amidst the satisfaction of my other "top" priorities.

In the end though, every review is a mix of personal taste, personal experience, and a mixture of both to analyze and draw conclusions. You have to separate these parts out in your mind. You also have to spend some time listening to various headphones/speakers to learn what characteristics appeal most to your tastes. Once you start gaining an understanding of all that, then you can read almost any detailed review and sort out how it fits your taste. Joyfully, sometimes you might hear something unexpected that will blow you (and your previous assumptions) away!


----------



## Evshrug

Ooh, I quite like what I just wrote, especially that last paragraph.  I'll have to save it for later.



johnsonr520 said:


> Question for xbox users. Since now im gaming without adjustable voice and game volume knobs with my dss, how do i adjust voice levels to a decent volume. Ive tried going to preferences and putting voice volume to 10, but it is still in-audible



Do you mean chat and game volume? That is a challenge, especially with (sadly) Halo 4 & reach. Normally, I would go to a game's "options" and turn down the game's master volume, and then turn up the volume of my system; this changes the balance of chat:game volume. Unfortunately some console games like Halo 4 don't have a game volume option.

The "voice volume to 10" in the Guide menu only works when someone speaks. If you have voice up to 10 and game volume down to like 5, the game will swoop down quieter when someone starts talking, then swoop back up when people stop talking for a second. Overall, Xbox was designed for speakers and a cruddy (uncomfortable) chat headset, so Microsoft doesn't have "real" headphone support or good chat controls. Even with a dedicated chat headset I had volume problems.

All that said, I usually do fine by turning down the in-game volume setting.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> BetaWolf,
> Some people are more attracted to certain sound characteristics than others. That immersion created by a "soundscape" was huge for me, and one of the biggest differences made by the AD700 compared to any other headphone I'd heard at that point. I still love that headphone to this day, and feel especially impressed with it when paired with virtual surround. Others have told me that the AD700 is weak because the bass extension is very weak, a few others have flat out told me my opinion was wrong for thinking it was highly enjoyable to listen to.
> 
> As ruuku pointed out, there are many facets of what makes a headphone fun, and they all contribute, but personal taste creates different priorities. While I look for excellent comfort, detail/texture, and soundstage to "Wow!" me most, I have definitely enjoyed the increase of bass presence in my AKG Q701's amidst the satisfaction of my other "top" priorities.
> ...


 
   
  All of this, so very much.
   
  What everyone starting out on Head-Fi has to learn is that everyone else's preferences aren't necessarily their own, and that they might not even know what they're really looking for until they've sampled a few headphones.
   
  Sometimes, you even find out that the one headphone you've had all along really is your favorite, but you're not certain of it 'til you try other headphone models and keep going back to that one headphone you were using before. In the process, you might find that you crave a particular thing in overall sound presentation that you didn't really know you were looking for at first!


----------



## Johnsonr520

So Evshrug, does that just mean that Im doomed for halo 4 to not hear anyone unless I get a mixamp?


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> Quote:
> Then which set would you recommend as a balanced set between "Fun" and "Competitive"? Q701? DT990? I'm still partial to the 598, since I tried on a 558 the other day. The comfort level for my particular head shape with Sennheiser's clamp design is closer to a 9.5 for me than a 7.
> Quote:
> I wonder how much CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone differ. First time I heard CMSS-3D in game, it blew my mind how stuff sounded like it was coming from outside of the headphone. An AI enemy yelled at me from down a hallway. It sounded like I was there, with a voice coming off in the distance, the hallway giving the voice a hollow-sounding effect. (Note that this is just with the Creative Fatal1ty Headset MKII. http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Labs-HS-980-Fatal1ty-Professional/product-reviews/B002BH3JDA ) That drew me in more than deep bass ever could.


 

 I just picked up a DT990 pro 250 and I really prefer it to my HD598. I really think that the soundstage on the two is very similar. I also love the bass on the DT990. Thats the main reason that I wanted to try it out and its a nice step up in that area. I also don't find the bass to be too much. It doesn't appear to interfere with the mids imo. Its a very immersive experience. Gunshots and explosions sound much more impressive on the DT990.
   
  As far as comfort goes I also prefer the DT990. The cups are huge and the pads are just so comfortable. I was also expecting a tighter clamp. Its not tight at all. I thought that the HD598 was the most comfortable pair of headphones that I had ever used until I tried the DT990.
   
  Don't get me wrong the HD598 is a great headphone but I can't see using it over my DT990.


----------



## Impulse

roger de ceiba said:


> My apologies, I did mean the Pro900. I was actually thinking of something along the lines of the he-400 or maybe even a portable headphone recently. Hell, I might use the he-400 with my PS Vita when I go out.




Heh, you might get some funny looks... 

If sound stage isn't a huge concern, the V-Moda M-80 make for excellent portables IMO... They still sound more spacious than harder clamping (though more isolating) portables like the HD25-1 II, but it's not really close to most of the open headphones discussed around here.

I really like their overall sound signature tho, a very nice alternative to my Beyers (part of the reason I got them) and the overall package and build quality makes them well worth the $150-160 IMO. For competitive gaming the CAL are though to beat tho, you can often find them near $70 or under... Although they're not the most durable or isolating so it depends on your portable situation or needs.

The Philips Downtown are a nice little bargain at $35 if you have a Marshall's or TJ Max nearby, I've been testing a pair recently... I wanna get a pair of Koss DJ100 later to compare since both of them are now available for $50 or under ($80+ originally).

Also, everyone should have a pair or two of Koss KSC75... I'm thinking of getting a second pair to permanently sew them into a beanie I bought (it's made for that but the headphones it comes with are meh). They bat well above the $12 they'll cost you.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Ooh, I quite like what I just wrote, especially that last paragraph.  I'll have to save it for later.




Very well put indeed (not quoting the post again tho since Nameless already did!).




bababooeyhtj said:


> I just picked up a DT990 pro 250 and I really prefer it to my HD598. I really think that the soundstage on the two is very similar. I also love the bass on the DT990...




Same Bababooey from Hardforum? 'Sup?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roger de ceiba said:


> My apologies, I did mean the Pro900. I was actually thinking of something along the lines of the he-400 or maybe even a portable headphone recently. Hell, I might use the he-400 with my PS Vita when I go out.




Terrible, terrible idea. The Vita won't power the HE400 well enough to even get a moderate volume, and the severe lack of isolation on the HE40p makes it a terrible headphone to use anywhere but in the most quiet of places.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Heh, you might get some funny looks...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *For a minute there I thought you were about to say you would sew them to your ears..* *And what makes the Koss so great?*


 
   
  And really though, I think I've decided to buy a portable pair of headphones. I want a quality set, it doesn't really matter whether it is open or closed back.
   
  Also, you made a triple post...


----------



## Impulse

The KSC75 are more detailed and lively than anything that cheap has a right to be... I think even Sears has them for under $15, I've seen them at Best Buy too along with the more retro Porta Pros. They're decently durable for the price, tho the foam pads can disintegrate (I've replaced them with slightly thicker PX100 pads).

They're open, which is part of what creates their great sound, but it also means they don't isolate for crap... They're ideal for when you actually don't want any isolation tho (or it doesn't matter either way), skiing, biking, etc. You gotta fiddle with the clips a bit to get the right fit but it's no big deal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The secret of the KSC75, is to get it to be it's tightest to your ears as possible. Out of the box, the clips may be too spread apart from the drivers, so when you put them on, it's very bright, with a lack of bass and lots of treble. Once you bend the clips inward with a much smaller gap between the clips and the drivers, the sound will be fuller and warmer. It's a bit harder to put on when with the tighter fit, but it's worth it.

In somewhat similar news, my KSC35 needs to be RMA'd as the wires are spitting from the cable sleeve. UGH. I don't even have this problem with the KSC75. Time to pay $8 to get it fixed. In the meantime, I've been using the KSC75 with the KSCX35's clips, as the very tight fit gives the 75 a noticeboost in warmth and bass, at the cost of some treble clarity.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

That sounds cool, but I think I'll pass. I'd rather put those $20 towards something more worthwhile for me. The V-Moda m80 looks yummy, although I also need a headphone (or iem)/ with a mic to use with my phone (as well as Vita). I was looking into the seenheiser momentum. That and/or the audiofly a56.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You dunno what you're missing. The KSC75 should be in everyone's collection. If I didn't have the KSC35, the 75 would be my most used headphone. They get 90% more use than anything else, ever.


----------



## badugi

Hello, im a longtime reader but first time posting here and relatively new to the audio world.  Im no way an audiophile but have appreciation for sound and music. 
   
  Thanks Mad Lust for creating an awesome guide.  I've been reading all your reviews for 3 weeks and am still fascinated by your reviews.
   
  Yet
  Got a concern:
  I've had the Steelseries Siberia v2 for two years now and I've just bought a new pair of Senns HD650.  When I listened to them side by side, I could hardly tell the difference except that the Senns are BARELY better than the v2 in terms of Richer sounds and being more detailed in the mids.  I've also noticed the v2 are slightly more muddied in their mids and highs but their bass is very low.  The 650's bass is punchier but not as emphasized as v2.
   
  Im a bit disappointed with the comparison because its not THAT big of a difference.  However, I've only compared them to my normal onboard soundcard in my pc and not an amp yet.  I currently do not have a headphone amp, but when I purchase one, will I see an even more big of a difference?  Also, the HD650's are new so they're not 'burned in' much.  Would that help as well?
   
  btw, Im thinking of getting the Schiit MAGNI/MODI combo.  Will that be ok for my new Senn's?
   
  Thank you very much guys, much appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No amp for the HD650 which is one of the headphone's that scales the most... yeah, did you even read abut them?

The Schiit combo should be pretty good for the HD650, as it's on the clearer side of amps.

And yeah, the bass isn't as emphasized, because the HD650 is pretty balanced. One of the flattest frequency responses I've seen.

Also don't just quickly compare one to another. Spend some time with the HD650, like a WEEK or so. Then go back to the Siberia. The difference will be more jarring. You're so used to the Siberias, which is why your opinion is skewed towards them.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You dunno what you're missing. The KSC75 should be in everyone's collection. If I didn't have the KSC35, the 75 would be my most used headphone. They get 90% more use than anything else, ever.


 

 I would imagine it would be the same if you had any other portable headphone... It's only logical, even more so if you spend more time outside than home.
   
  What is up with your avatar though? Where is here left hand?...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's Panty from "Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt", and yes, it is where you think it is. Lol. 

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWbNfEOFlk[/VIDEO]

The main draw with the KSC75 is how unobtrusive it is. It simply disappears on your head, in that you can do ANYTHING, and they will stay in place. They're small enough to sleep with, and don't hurt the way IEMs do. The only IEM I can stand is the JVC Marshmallows, and you probably know they aren't the best sounding IEMs out there.


----------



## Hailin

The KSC75 is a fantastic headphone. If you can get some clips and find the portapro on sale that is also another fantastic set. Use to sleep with, walk with, around the house listening to music and playing games. I agree both or at least one should be in every ones collection.
   
  I really wish I could find someone to show me in person how to solder because I have 5 pairs of KSC75s that I don't want to send in I just want to recable altogether because the they either break at the ear piece or around the 3.5mm jack area since it is not sealed properly. The portapros/KSC35 are a much higher build quality in comparison.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't agree about the KSC35. I've had it break on me twice now. The KSC75, I've never had a problem with except driver rattle.  Either way, Koss has a lifetime warranty, though it's not worthwhile on the 75, as just sending it in is basically near the cost of buying a new one. The KSC35 though goes for $45, so it is worth getting fixed, as it's only 8$.


----------



## badugi

thanks mad!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't agree about the KSC35. I've had it break on me twice now. The KSC75, I've never had a problem with except driver rattle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I have been very lucky then with the KSC35 then. I have put mine through hell and back.

 amazon.ca had a sale last month on the KSC75 for 12 bucks I am kicking myself for not ordering another 3 pairs.


----------



## Impulse

roger de ceiba said:


> That sounds cool, but I think I'll pass. I'd rather put those $20 towards something more worthwhile for me. The V-Moda m80 looks yummy, although I also need a headphone (or iem)/ with a mic to use with my phone (as well as Vita). I was looking into the seenheiser momentum. That and/or the audiofly a56.




The Momentum looks real nice (I even like the color), haven't had a chance to handle them first hand tho. The M-80's come with two cables, one with mic/button and one without, and a real nice case. Does the Vita have BT?

I've been using my Koss clip-ons, my IEMs, and even the M-80 with a clip-on Bluetooth receiver (Sony MW600) so that I'm free to handle my phone and slip it in and out of pocket without the cable dangling. It's particularly nice with the M-80 since they have a removable cable, so I can I just use a very short cable and clip the thing on my sleeve/collar/pocket with no slack.

I think Bluetooth's come a long way, I'd never bother with it at home but for portable use the convenience quite outweighs the slight degree of compression IMO... I need to compare the MW600 output to my Clip Zip using my Etys.




mad lust envy said:


> The main draw with the KSC75 is how unobtrusive it is. It simply disappears on your head, in that you can do ANYTHING, and they will stay in place. They're small enough to sleep with, and don't hurt the way IEMs do. The only IEM I can stand is the JVC Marshmallows, and you probably know they aren't the best sounding IEMs out there.




I've never actually tried sleeping in them, not sure I'd want to... But I've got big ears and I roll around a lot when I sleep. I think I'd end up with a clip poking me somewhere it shouldn't if they come off... 

I just use my CX300 since they're the smallest IEM I've got and the least I care about, I don't find IEM uncomfortable in general tho (the Ety's took some getting used to but that's about it...).

The KSC75 are definitely good enough for active use tho, possibly more so than IEM for a lot of people, and they handle gaming like few portables can.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

That dongle looks promising actually. I may buy the Kross KSC75 yet...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's Panty from "Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt", and yes, it is where you think it is. Lol.


 
   
  It is what I thought it was *nose bleeds* haha. So odd, yet, want to watch


----------



## chewynuts

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chewynuts,
> Shi-tren was indeed a good friend, self-assured and a great reflection on your country. I also picked up the habit of keeping a window open for fresh air whenever possible from him, and a love for StarCraft/DotA.
> 
> The U3 I mentioned simulates surround using Dolby, but the X-Fi Go! uses CMSS-3D, so I was making virtual surround suggestions. Creative's solutions do indeed have the advantage of height surround in addition to front/back/sides, but just so you know the new Z-series cards have moved from CMSS-3D to SBX Pro Studio Surround. SBX still has full 3D surround (while Dolby is 2D), but I don't yet know anyone who's given a full review on it. SBX may just be a rename of THX TruStudio Pro that creative used in their last generation cards (notice how similar the names are), dropping the THX brand name to save a few $$. So far I enjoy THX the best of all the headphone simulations I've heard. I'd love to hear what you think of the new cards
> ...


 
   
  I was in luck and my floormates owned a pair of DT880 (32ohm) and DT990 (no idea which ohm). Unexpectedly enough, I think the Beyerdynamic treble is too hot for me in general. Do you think thw Q701 will have a more natural sound with flatter treble and fuller mid-range?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





impulse said:


> http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2011/11/14/output-impedance-show-and-tell
> 
> Hey man, here's a Sound + Vision article about amp output impedance (and headphone impedance in general) that's probably a much easier read than the links I PM'd you earlier. It's not as technical as some other articles on the matter and it glosses over a couple of facts but it IS technically accurate for the most part and the author uses some very good analogies.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, it has somewhat stuck with me now. I think I understand enough of it. Thank you very much sir.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chewynuts said:


> I was in luck and my floormates owned a pair of DT880 (32ohm) and DT990 (no idea which ohm). Unexpectedly enough, I think the Beyerdynamic treble is too hot for me in general. Do you think thw Q701 will have a more natural sound with flatter treble and fuller mid-range?




Yes. But the upper mids on the Q701 may still be fatiguing. Still a lot more easy on the ears than tbe Beyers. The Annie though is non-fatiguing all the time. Think of it as the best alternative tk the DT880 if you liked it other than the treble.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





badugi said:


> Hello, im a longtime reader but first time posting here and relatively new to the audio world.  Im no way an audiophile but have appreciation for sound and music.
> 
> Thanks Mad Lust for creating an awesome guide.  I've been reading all your reviews for 3 weeks and am still fascinated by your reviews.
> 
> ...


 
  Depending on the onboard sound you have you might get a better deal going for an ASUS essence ST/STX soundcard initially than the DAC/AMP combo (especially if you're into gaming as well). The card should drive the headphones well, plus you get the surround sound for gaming, movies etc as well as a decent DAC for your music.
   
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm pointing you in the wrong direction. 
   
FYI: I use Titanium HD soundcard, O2/ODAC amp/dac with my HD650's - the titanium doesn't quite have the amp power the cans need, but the ASUS should meaning you can forego the external amp until later.


----------



## chewynuts

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes. But the upper mids on the Q701 may still be fatiguing. Still a lot more easy on the ears than tbe Beyers. The Annie though is non-fatiguing all the time. Think of it as the best alternative tk the DT880 if you liked it other than the treble.


 
   
  I don't think I can afford the Annie just yet, how about versus the origina; K702?


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





chewynuts said:


> I don't think I can afford the Annie just yet, how about versus the origina; K702?


 
  Read the Annie thread. Someone recently just reviewed both and did a wonderful job too. The drama in the review/comparison was intense.
   
  I think AKG is one of those brands everyone has to try if they can. I have finally decided I just don't like their house sound in general. I am more a Beyer guy. Like how you find them to hot I enjoy them. The HE400 gives me a lot of that joy. But I had to try to them to realize that and find what I like.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You dunno what you're missing. The KSC75 should be in everyone's collection. If I didn't have the KSC35, the 75 would be my most used headphone. They get 90% more use than anything else, ever.


 
   
  x2
   
  They are my "default" headphone. 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The main draw with the KSC75 is how unobtrusive it is. It simply disappears on your head, in that you can do ANYTHING, and they will stay in place.


 
   
  x2. 
   
  You get the benefits of using a headphone without the physical footprint of using one ( you don't really feel it).  I've said this before, but I'll often just leave them on my head for an hour or two even though I'm not even listening to anything anymore.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





hailin said:


> The KSC75 is a fantastic headphone. If you can get some clips and find the portapro on sale that is also another fantastic set.  I agree both or at least one should be in every ones collection.
> 
> I really wish I could find someone to show me in person how to solder because I have 5 pairs of KSC75s that I don't want to send in I just want to recable altogether because the they either break at the ear piece or around the 3.5mm jack area since it is not sealed properly. The portapros/KSC35 are a much higher build quality in comparison.


 
   
  Also the sporta pros have the KSC35 driver, and it's black (not blue like the porta pro).  It's also always $10-15 cheaper than the porta pro at around ~$22.
   
  Wow, 5 pairs?  They shouldn't be that hard to fix/recable, as it's extremely easy to get to where the wires attach to the driver.  Sadly, I suck at soldering. 
   
  ...But I should look into rewiring them.  My KSC35 drivers are working solid though ATM so I'm lazy about fixing them.  I've just got one flakey KSC75s on deck that need fixing.
   
   
  Still using the headband mod BTW.  Zero comfort issues with it.  I can still leave them on my head for hours like the clips.  I did mod the headband a little with a dremel tool to give the drivers more rotation room though.  Stock they didn't quite rotate as far as I'd like for my (weirdly?) angled ears.


----------



## Impulse

raband said:


> Depending on the onboard sound you have you might get a better deal going for an [COLOR=3C3B3B]ASUS essence ST/STX soundcard initially than the DAC/AMP combo (especially if you're into gaming as well). The card should drive the headphones well, plus you get the surround sound for gaming, movies etc as well as a decent DAC for your music.
> [/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=3C3B3B]I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm pointing you in the wrong direction.
> ...




I think that's solid advice, though even one of the sub-$60 Xonars (DG/DGX) would be a big improvement over on-board sound... It might be a good middle step to see if you then wanna go ahead and invest in an amp that can definitely drive the 650 to their full potential.

I definitely agree the STX is a terrific value tho, specially if you can find it for closer to $150 than $200... If you don't care for Dolby Headphone it might be a bit of a wash compared to the Magni/Modi and Schiit's amp is probably technically better (or at least more versatile).

I'd take MLE's advice before any other purchases tho badugi, listen to them exclusively for a few days and then go back to the old headset. Also, have you tried a few different games and/or music?


----------



## Evshrug

johnsonr520 said:


> So Evshrug, does that just mean that Im doomed for halo 4 to not hear anyone unless I get a mixamp?



Well, the clarity and layering capability of your headphones helps... but yeah, kinda. The recon3D helps me out a bit too because it has a dialogue booster option which I use, but the Mixamp (or steelseries dongle? SLYR mixer?) is the only option to live-mix chat/game balance.
Thinking further though of what I have... I technically could use my Recon3D's extension cord... E5 amp... but then input/output direction problems... Meh, I haven't found an ideal solution. It actually works out ok if you're talking with someone with a loud mic (like my buddy with a TB headset) and using a judicious around of lowering "game volume" in the "voice" settings, but I tend to give up on people with quiet mics. Or in the case of one of my friends, send him one of my spare mics 



roger de ceiba said:


> That sounds cool, but I think I'll pass. I'd rather put those $20 towards something more worthwhile for me. The V-Moda m80 looks yummy, although I also need a headphone (or iem)/ with a mic to use with my phone (as well as Vita). I was looking into the seenheiser momentum. That and/or the audiofly a56.



V-MODA headphones include 1 or 2 cables with microphones and a call answer button. My Crossfade LP (which had a fat bottom-end that would make Sir-Mix-Alot happy and Mad surprised that I owned and liked it) had a 3 button Apple remote/mic, though I think the M80 includes an android one instead (or all three? You can always buy the cable you want and plug it in to the headphone, I loved the modular nature of the headphone). I actually miss my Crossfades, they were a great portable "fun" compliment to reference headphones, when I have disposable income again I may pick up a pair of gunmetal gray LPs again, or the smaller-but-less-comfy supra aural M80s. They're like bassy Audio Technica M50s  



chewynuts said:


> I was in luck and my floormates owned a pair of DT880 (32ohm) and DT990 (no idea which ohm). Unexpectedly enough, I think the Beyerdynamic treble is too hot for me in general. Do you think thw Q701 will have a more natural sound with flatter treble and fuller mid-range?



Yes? I like mine anyway, treble isn't too hot for me (and I'm fatigued by too much treble). The mids are quite enjoyable. There is an AKG K240 studio for sale for about $100 that is supposed to be quite great plus have more bass. Look it up on Amazon and Headroom (headphone.com, has quite a few frequency graphs and allows you to compare different models and see many different reviews). The AKG K242 has a different color scheme and a few extras like spare pads, but costs more. The K272 is closed and FWIR (from what I read) has pretty magical mids.


----------



## raband

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I think that's solid advice, though even one of the sub-$60 Xonars (DG/DGX) would be a big improvement over on-board sound... It might be a good middle step to see if you then wanna go ahead and invest in an amp that can definitely drive the 650 to their full potential.


 
  The DG/DGX don't have the amp though do they?, whereas the ST/STX power up to a 600ohm  headphone (with the HD650's being 300ohm)
  They would be better than the onboard, but still not have the power to make the HD's sound any better than they are now without an additional amp.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> V-MODA headphones include 1 or 2 cables with microphones and a call answer button. My Crossfade LP (which had a fat bottom-end that would make Sir-Mix-Alot happy and Mad surprised that I owned and liked it) had a 3 button Apple remote/mic, though I think the M80 includes an android one instead (or all three? You can always buy the cable you want and plug it in to the headphone, I loved the modular nature of the headphone). I actually miss my Crossfades, they were a great portable "fun" compliment to reference headphones, when I have disposable income again I may pick up a pair of gunmetal gray LPs again, or the smaller-but-less-comfy supra aural M80s. They're like bassy Audio Technica M50s




Yeah, I think I got confused earlier and said the M-80 came with a mic-less cable plus a mic one w/a single button... They actually come with two mic/button cables, one's a red single button and the other's a black three-button for iPhones, but the latter actually works with the vast majority of Android phones too (the volume buttons just don't do anything).

I traded my iPhone cable with someone here for the single button orange cable that comes with the M-100 (that model _does_ come with a button-less/mic-less cable plus said orange cable). They're nice cables too, fabric wrapped, Teflon coated, with 45 degree plugs at the device end... Newer versions also have improved split mic/button sections that makes the mic work better.

The M-80 actually have the least bass emphasis of all their models, they're still warm with some treble rolloff but the bass isn't as prominent as on the LPs or even M-100.


----------



## Impulse

raband said:


> The DG/DGX don't have the amp though do they?, whereas the ST/STX power up to a 600ohm  headphone (with the HD650's being 300ohm)
> They would be better than the onboard, but still not have the power to make the HD's sound any better than they are now without an additional amp.




Those two still have a discrete headphone amp... It's weaker than the STX but it's still more powerful than say, the Titanium HD or most other cards (speaking solely about the amp part). Technically speaking any card with a headphone output has some kind of amplification. Those 2 Xonars, the Essence/Phoebus line, and Creative's new Z line just have much beefier discrete amps. The other Xonars (DSX or whatever) don't have that as they're meant for HTPCs or whatever.

Edit: But yeah, I don't think a DGX would drive the HD 650 optimally, but it'd still drive it much better than on board (so it wouldn't just be a DAC upgrade of sorts) plus they're cheap and can always be paired with an external amp.

Just giving him options, personally I've enjoyed my STX a lot and I can see it serving me well for as long as ASUS updates the drivers (they had Win8 drivers pre-launch so that's encouraging).


----------



## Evshrug

J&R just posted the Titanium HD for $110 again. I'm sorely tempted, I'd probably take a credit card hit if I heard back about work.
By the way, "rated for 600 ohms" isn't a very concrete, precise way to judge the power and capability of an amp. It's better to see the maximum mW @ your headphone's load (300 ohm right?). You can have two "rated for 600 ohm" amps, but one has more power headroom at the ohm level you need. Honestly, more powerful built-in amps are nice, but are easily trumped by a line-out feed to a discrete headphone amp.


----------



## badugi

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I think that's solid advice, though even one of the sub-$60 Xonars (DG/DGX) would be a big improvement over on-board sound... It might be a good middle step to see if you then wanna go ahead and invest in an amp that can definitely drive the 650 to their full potential.
> 
> I definitely agree the STX is a terrific value tho, specially if you can find it for closer to $150 than $200... If you don't care for Dolby Headphone it might be a bit of a wash compared to the Magni/Modi and Schiit's amp is probably technically better (or at least more versatile).
> 
> I'd take MLE's advice before any other purchases tho badugi, listen to them exclusively for a few days and then go back to the old headset. Also, have you tried a few different games and/or music?


 
   Thanks for the advice.  I was thinking about the dolby headphone feature for my pc, but i'm not really a FPS gamer.  I'm just more of an RTS/ D3 gamer, and I usually listen to music while playing starcraft 2 anyways.  But I have been researching about those soundcards and I might later in the future just get one.  As an entry level amp though I think im going to just invest in the magni/modi combo.  But thanks for the advice about letting my headphone burn in for a bit longer.  I guess I was impatient, and i JUST learned about the burn in concept recently.  I will wait about a week until  I hear them again.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> J&R just posted the Titanium HD for $110 again. I'm sorely tempted, I'd probably take a credit card hit if I heard back about work.
> By the way, "rated for 600 ohms" isn't a very concrete, precise way to judge the power and capability of an amp. It's better to see the maximum mW @ your headphone's load (300 ohm right?). You can have two "rated for 600 ohm" amps, but one has more power headroom at the ohm level you need. Honestly, more powerful built-in amps are nice, but are easily trumped by a line-out feed to a discrete headphone amp.


 
  I own this card and I don't think there is a true amp inside it. Sure, it can power headphones up to about 250 ohm Beyers decently but not to there potential. Go with the line-out and external amp option if you go with the Titanium HD.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

guys, I think I've narrowed my search for a portable headphone.I'm down to either the v-moda 100 or the sennheiser momentum.

For portability, the m100 wins, since it;s built like a tank. I wouldn't be afraid of throwing it in my bag on my way to school. It also has a two year limited guarantee and v-moda has excellent customer service. Nevertheless, I get a feeling that the Momentum will probably achieve better listening levels on my phone and vita without the need of an amp. 

As far as sound signature, I would probably be better off with the Momentum. My listening tastes are literally all over the place. I can be in the mood to listen to Grandmaster Melle Mel one day and then want to listen to Vicente Fernandez the next. The bass boost of the m100 might be good for electronic music but for everything else it might be a hindrance.

*sigh*, I really don't know which one to pick. I'm probably going to end up sampling both and returning one. Actually, now that I made this list, I think I'll probably be better off with the momentum. It's just that I'm not sold on it's durability...


----------



## gab840

Quote: 





gab840 said:


> How the K702 65th Anniversary hp & HE-400 hp compares to each other in terms of Gaming/Music/Movies?


 
  Any1 differentiating the above two heaphones - bass/mids/treble/imaging ...


----------



## Evshrug

gab840 said:


> Any1 differentiating the above two heaphones - bass/mids/treble/imaging ...


Anyone? How about... the OP who carefully detailed these characteristics in his review guide? One's got a U-shaped freq response, the other is more balanced with greater sound stage, both have good imaging.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





gab840 said:


> Any1 differentiating the above two heaphones - bass/mids/treble/imaging ...


 

 Oh I will try so people can tell me I am wrong.
   
  Bass - He400
  Mids - Annies
  Treble - for me HE400 lots are going to say Annies so it is a win win for everyone.
  Imaging - He400
  Soundstage - Annies barely it is wide but doesn't have the depth of the HE400.
   
  Gaming - Annies grrrr pains me to admit that.
  Music - HE400
  Movies - Don't know haven't watched any with either so I am going to say DT990 to be different.
   
  Annies are more comfortable to if you don't have the jaw line issue. The HE400s are just to heavy to be more comfortable unless you have the neck of a body builder.
  Honestly both headphones I find I have to adjust all the time. My Beyers beat them both hands down. My KSC75/35s even more.


----------



## BababooeyHTJ

I've never had the chance to test out a good pair of closed headphones. What should I try? I really love my DT990 so I'm pretty tempted by the DT770 but I'm also considering the ultrasone pro 750.
   
  I'm honestly thinking of just giving the CAL a shot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you love the DT990, the Pro 900 is the closest closed alternative of it.

My Mixamp came in today....I think. Wow, it came with a VEERY long, thick gold plated USB cable. Was that standard on the 2011 Mixamp Pros? That's the best USB cab;e I've seen yet. Even better than the long one I've had for years.

edit: WOW. I just maxed out the volume with the Annie. ZERO hiss.

What, Astro? What happened?

If you don't want a bulky receiver, and want the lowest noise... find a Mixamp Pro that isn't a 2013 Edition. Of course, it's not without it's downside. The one I have has a very noisy volume pot (like the noisiest I've ever heard on any device ever) when adjusting volume, as well as a noticeable channel imbalance up to about 30% of the volume pot, which is ridiculous.

The seller didn't ever mention this... of course. I'm gonna have to take it up with Ebay, because it's staggering how loud the noise is.

Well, I could just max out the volume and use the voice knob to control volume, it'd work fine, but the resale value...

Still, I would mainly attach it to my Compass 2 anyways, so the volume would stay maxed regardless.

I just can't believe how quiet the Mixamp is. A far cry from the noisy 2013 and 5.8.


----------



## Johnsonr520

How do you guys feel about the Q701 vs the Hd598 in positional cues?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





johnsonr520 said:


> How do you guys feel about the Q701 vs the Hd598 in positional cues?


 
   
  Don't you already have the HD558?


----------



## chicolom

I wonder what these sound like on the Koss drivers.  Probably increase the bass but may also butcher the soundstage.  They look a little uncomfortable.
   
  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-Ear-pad-earpad-cushion-Koss-portapro-pp-Storm-Edition-dj-headphones-/170967627438?pt=US_Replacement_Parts_Tools&hash=item27ce76f6ae&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Don't you already have the HD558?


 
  Yea I have no intention of geting either at the moment. Im just curious since they got the same score but I know lust doesn't compare directly


----------



## Johnsonr520

Also a mention on the HD558, maybe its just halo has alot going on audio wise, but on certain maps, they have the tendency to pick up too much background noise which sometimes makes them a bit bassy and harder for competitive nature to use. But as I said it might just be certain loud maps. I have to use them on COD before I can fully judge


----------



## Evshrug

Which maps? The only thing about the sound design that stood out as annoying for me (besides the in-game volume control) is how loud the warthogs' engines are.


----------



## BetaWolf

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> BetaWolf,
> <snip>





> In the end though, every review is a mix of personal taste, personal experience, and a mixture of both to analyze and draw conclusions. You have to separate these parts out in your mind. You also have to spend some time listening to various headphones/speakers to learn what characteristics appeal most to your tastes. Once you start gaining an understanding of all that, then you can read almost any detailed review and sort out how it fits your taste. Joyfully, sometimes you might hear something unexpected that will blow you (and your previous assumptions) away!


 
  Let me start by thanking you again for this advice. The main problem I am having right now is that I'm only going to buy one set of headphones. I'm not looking to get into the whole collecting/comparing hobby. I can only buy one full-sized set of headphones, one amp, and one soundcard for at least the next three years. This set is for a mix of gaming and music, so I'm trying to make sure there's no science behind the whole "bass" thing, and that it's just personal preference. My purchase has to count. I'm currently waiting on the Sound Blaster ZxR, buying a TBD amp, and choosing between the Sennheiser HD 598 and the AKG K702 (non-anniversary edition). If anyone has personal experience with these two, I'd love to hear how they compare.


----------



## Evshrug

And I'm just saying we can only state general differences (already covered in the guide, also the Sennheiser PC360 is basically a headset version of the 598HD), and then say which we think is better based on personal preference. To be honest, if you DON'T have anything audiophile quality to compare, then Either will impress you greatly. I personally would again pick the AKG if I similarly had little headphone experience, because even with hats I don't like tight things on my head (or ears), but your mileage still may vary from mine. However, I highly suggest you compare the pricing for the K702 vs the newer Q701, I found the Q's to be significantly less expensive.

I use my Q701 for everything, they also beat our HTIB for watching movies, but they display a greater charm while listening to my music than I experience with gaming. Again, this is my opinion, but competitive gaming I feel like I'm just being more tactical and everything sounds super-clear, but occasionally during first-playthroughs of singleplayer and often during music the sound just stones me and sends delightful shivers up my spine. To an extent the magic fades as we learn what to expect, but I still have "moments" with fresh material and as I rediscover my music library since I got my Q's last... uh... Mad, was it June or May I got the Q's?


----------



## gab840

Quote: 





hailin said:


> Thx Hailin!
> 
> Oh I will try so people can tell me I am wrong.
> 
> ...


----------



## Johnsonr520

evshrug said:


> Which maps? The only thing about the sound design that stood out as annoying for me (besides the in-game volume control) is how loud the warthogs' engines are.



The worst that I remember is adrift because the wind outside mostly but other noises on it were overpowering as well. I'll have to write down the maps that bothered me next time so I remember


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it seems that the receiver does use DH room 2 like the Mixamp. Comparing them directly, they sound similar.

One odd thing I noticed. Despite my PS2 being hooked up via toslink, it isn't doing Pro Logic II (headphone version) on the receiver, but does it just fine on the Mixamp. Ah well. A shame though.

BTW, the Mixamp Pro does hiss with the KSC75, but it's very minute, and you'd destroy your ears way before the hiss is even audible past microscopic levels. With something like the Annie, the hiss isn't even there.

Contemplating returning it to Ebay due to the very obvious defects. I'll see about recording it. Its very, very loud (the volume knob distortion), and there is a point early in tbe knob where the volume spikes up on one side then gets quite and evens out. It's so weird.


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So it seems that the receiver does use DH room 2 like the Mixamp. Comparing them directly, they sound similar.
> 
> One odd thing I noticed. Despite my PS2 being hooked up via toslink, it isn't doing Pro Logic II (headphone version) on the receiver, but does it just fine on the Mixamp. Ah well. A shame though.
> 
> ...


 

 This actually sounds kinda similar to my Mixamp (think it's the 2010 version? doesn't feature the ability to send sound over usb) though either yours is muuuuuuch worse or I'm just far too tolerant having used the thing for years. I definitely get a channel imbalance up until roughly 30% of the volume limit (left side is MUCH louder than the right and then it evens out) but seeing as I rarely go below that point it's not an issue for me. As for the distortion, I get a bit of a static like sound whenever I adjust the larger volume pot (ie the one that controls overall volume, not the chat/game balance dial), it's definitely audible over whatever I'm listening to but again: I don't adjust the volume on a regular basis so it doesn't bother me too much.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> So it seems that the receiver does use DH room 2 like the Mixamp. Comparing them directly, they sound similar.
> 
> One odd thing I noticed. Despite my PS2 being hooked up via toslink, it isn't doing Pro Logic II (headphone version) on the receiver, but does it just fine on the Mixamp. Ah well. A shame though.
> 
> ...




 Do you have a verdict on receiver hp jack vs mixamp + amp? Soundstage size in particular?


----------



## nassq8

My long quest for perfection, lands me on the following:  AH-D7000 is the untouchable for gaming and movie watching.
 





 
It will put you right in the middle of actions. I have K702 Anni, (with all its unbeatable sounstage), and HE-500 (with all its sonic purity), both will not give you the wanted immersion as the  one you can get from D7000 .  
 
However, D7000 is no match with HE-500 when it comes to vocal and string instruments.   Both are the perfect combination for gaming and music listing, adding K702 Anni in the middle as a flavor enhancement


----------



## Johnsonr520

What cable is that on the D7000?


----------



## nassq8

johnsonr520 said:


> What cable is that on the D7000?




It is a mod by Lawton Audio, they call it "The Copper Queen" cable. you can check it here


----------



## apav

Hey guys,
   
  Looking for a great pair of headphones that match my needs: 60% gaming (mostly RPG's and MMO's, some BF3), 30% music (electronic: trance, house, dubstep, DnB), and 10% movies. 
   
  The main things I'm looking for are incredible sound quality, the right amount of bass for a mix of gaming/electronic music, and comfort for long lasting gaming sessions. I have narrowed down my search to Ultrasone 550/750/2500 Pro and the Beyer 880 Pro. I was looking at the AD700, but it seems to lack the right amount of bass. I am not a basshead, but I do like it to have a moderate amount. 
   
  Are any of the headphones I listed good for listening to electronic music and being immersed in movies and games?
   
  Also, I game with my laptop and my desktop, so I plan on getting a Xonar sound card for my desktop, and a Xonar U3 (usb sound card) or external DAC for my laptop. I will not be buying an amp so I guess I'm limited to the 32 ohm versions of the 880. 
   
  For my needs, which headphone and equipment for it would you recommend? If you recommend something that I have not listed please say so!  Any suggestions please? Thank you


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





apav said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking for a great pair of headphones that match my needs: 60% gaming (mostly RPG's and MMO's, some BF3), 30% music (electronic: trance, house, dubstep, DnB), and 10% movies.
> 
> ...


 
  Beyerdynamic DT990 is definitely a contender for what you are looking for. You could add it to your list.
   
  Well back to the drawing board with me. As much as I loved the HE400 sound they are just to heavy for me to wear for long periods. 
   
  So now I am back to doing some fun reading and researching while switching between the CALs and KSC75 for the time being till I come up with my next great expense. LOL! 

 Comfort I know now is going to have to be key and ear pads around the size of the DT990. Might just save up for the T1, god who knows. That is part of the excitement right?!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

apav said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking for a great pair of headphones that match my needs: 60%
> gaming (mostly RPG's and MMO's, some BF3), 30% music (electronic: trance, house, dubstep, DnB), and 10% movies.
> ...




The 32ohm Beyers are even harder to drive than the 250ohm, so avoid any of the Beyers if not buying an amp, as it'd just be a waste of money and potential.


----------



## apav

Hey Mad Lust Envy,
   
  Thanks for the heads up. Well how about this. Out of the ones I specified, and the DT 990 Pro, which one would you recommend to me the most for my needs?
   
  I was under the impression that I would have to get a $200+ full size amp for these kind of headphones, but I just noticed that DAC's also drive headphones as well. I had no idea DAC's can act as sound cards and headphone amps, I thought they were two different things. So I won't need a sound card if I get a DAC, correct? Only caveat is that DAC's from what I can see don't have the 5.1/7.1 surround, which would be nice for gaming.  Sorry total newbie moment.
   
  If there is an external USB DAC that acts like a sound card as well as a headphone amp and that is relatively inexpensive, I'll get that! Also portability is a must, so that means I'm looking at something like the FiiO E07k. But is that enough to power the Beyers or Ultrasones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, Dacs and amps are two separate things. Just that there are units that have both, like the E17. Something like the ODAC for example, can't drive headphones. 

The E07k is a fairly weak dac/amp, and definitely not on par for what5 is necessary for the Beyers, other than the DT770 Pro 80.

You dont need to spend that much. 100 dollar amps like the E9k and Schiit Magni have plenty of power for 250ohm headphones.

And yes, audio DACs are basically external soundcards. No real reason to get both a soundcard and an external DAC, unless you wanna eek out a little more perfromance an external dac gives to audio, but not worthwhile for gaming. Again, check NamelessPFG's thread about soundcards and the like.


----------



## apav

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Umm, Dacs and amps are two separate things. Just that there are units that have both, like the E17. Something like the ODAC for example, can't drive headphones.
> 
> The E07k is a fairly weak dac/amp, and definitely not on par for what5 is necessary for the Beyers, other than the DT770 Pro 80.
> 
> ...


 

 Okay will do! Lastly please if you could tell me out of all the headphones I listed the one you recommend most for gaming/electronic music. Putting if I need an amp aside. Thanks so much!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT880 would be a solid choice as a solid all rounder, and if FPS isn't top priority. DT990 Pro if you need more bass.


----------



## wmf

"AH-D7000 is the untouchable for gaming and movie watching."
   
  totally agree.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

wmf said:


> "AH-D7000 is the untouchable for gaming and movie watching."
> 
> totally agree.




I said as such ages ago. 

They are my fave headphones for MANY reasons, gaming being a large reason. I miss them, every day.


----------



## chicolom

http://www.head-fi.org/t/649085/with-funai-philips-headphones-and-other-audio-products-will-continue
   
   
  Quote: 





> Last year, at CES 2012, Philips launched several outstanding headphones, and recently upped their game further with the Fidelio X1 (pictured), which is a headphone I really dig.
> 
> The other day, it was announced that Funai is acquiring Philips' audio-visual consumer electronics business (also known as Philips' "Lifestyle Entertainment" business), with the stated aim of both companies to maintain the PHILIPS brand
> 
> ...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





apav said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Looking for a great pair of headphones that match my needs: 60% gaming (mostly RPG's and MMO's, some BF3), 30% music (electronic: trance, house, dubstep, DnB), and 10% movies.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Is there any reason you didn't consider the HiFiMan HE-400?
   
  It's surprisingly forgiving of underpowered sources, and has bass done right: that is, punchy, cinematic bass whenever the source calls for it, but only when the source calls for it, thus not exaggerating the bass when it shouldn't be.
   
  Also, it's surprisingly comfortable, even over the long term.


----------



## nassq8

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I said as such ages ago.


 
   
  yes, and for that I got mine. you were right about them.


----------



## Evshrug

The only fly in the ointment, of course, is the pleather earpads. That, and the decreasing availability and priceerformance when you consider other amazing headphones at cheaper prices. Of course, there will be some for whom pleather is fine long-term (Canadians? Norwegians?), and that little bit of seasoning offered by a summit-Fi headphone will mean everything to some.

If I was going all-out, no money or convenience barriers considered, I'd first look at a STAX setup. Might be just me.


----------



## apav

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Is there any reason you didn't consider the HiFiMan HE-400?
> 
> It's surprisingly forgiving of underpowered sources, and has bass done right: that is, punchy, cinematic bass whenever the source calls for it, but only when the source calls for it, thus not exaggerating the bass when it shouldn't be.
> 
> Also, it's surprisingly comfortable, even over the long term.


 
  I did look at those. Wayyy out of my price range. I would if I had the money 
   
  I'm going to go with the DT 990!! The 250 Ohm Pro is the cheapest ($175 on eBay), so what would I need to bring out it's full potential? I doubt just a sound card in the $50-$75 range will do it(correct me if I'm wrong), I'll have to get an external amp right?


----------



## Evshrug

If you want surround sound on a PC, you'll have to spend at least around $40 for a 2D surround option. Then, you'll have to spend at least like $100 more on an amp like the E9 or Magni. So, like $315 plus shipping/tax. If you can find an HE-400 for around $290, you might be happier dropping the amp and just using the HE-400 out of a soundcard. I don't actually know how much an HE-400 costs now...

Edit: NVM, just looked up the HE-400's prices, lol! Hope the DT990 treble isn't too "hot" for you!


----------



## apav

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you want surround sound on a PC, you'll have to spend at least around $40 for a 2D surround option. Then, you'll have to spend at least like $100 more on an amp like the E9 or Magni. So, like $315 plus shipping/tax. If you can find an HE-400 for around $290, you might be happier dropping the amp and just using the HE-400 out of a soundcard. I don't actually know how much an HE-400 costs now...
> 
> Edit: NVM, just looked up the HE-400's prices, lol! Hope the treble isn't too "hot" for you!


 
  $290? I see all of them going for $399+! That would be a steal! But for now I think the 990 is my best bet. So a $50 Asus Xonar and an external USB DAC (like the E07k) wouldn't be enough together to power this headphone? If not, then I'll grab a cheap but good headphone amplifier and skip the DAC. Hopefully that isn't cutting corners and I'll still get good sound quality!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh, the E07K is a USB DAC+AMP. And it's not enough to power the 990. It's not. You don't need a DAC assuming the soundcard you get has a line out that retains virtual surround for gaming. Hence, why I said to ask Nameless about soundcards which might do that. That is, unless you're comfy attaching the amp through the headphone jack, or audio jack (green) on the back of the soundcard.


In other news:



imackler said:


> I posted this in the deal thread but thought there might be followers here interested. RazorDogAudio has the K702 65th Anniversary for $399 after coupon code RazorDog100. http://www.razordogaudio.com/products/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-limited-edition-headphone


----------



## Evshrug

apav said:


> $290? I see all of them going for $399+! That would be a steal! But for now I think the 990 is my best bet. So a $50 Asus Xonar and an external USB DAC (like the E07k) wouldn't be enough together to power this headphone? If not, then I'll grab a cheap but good headphone amplifier and skip the DAC. Hopefully that isn't cutting corners and I'll still get good sound quality!



To be fair, I saw the DT990 Premium selling for about $380 new, so I thought all else equal you would be saving money. The "Pro" models IIRC are slightly different and thus sell for a lower price, and I assumed you were looking at used on top of that. Meh.

I think you still don't understand what a DAC is... Stands for Digital-to-Analogue-Converter, it converts the digital files into analogue signals (which then need to be amplified). An iPod or MP3 player has a built-in DAC and a built-in amp, it NEEDS those to function. A soundcard or external DAC (these both have DAC functions) and external amplifiers are essentially upgrades compared to what's built-in to your computer or music player. Some Soundcards also have the added benefit of being able to process virtual surround sound for headphones, see my guide on surround sound setups: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400

Most soundcards have decent DAC and amping built-in, but the high-end Beyerdynamics are best used with even MORE powerful amps.

Edit: the Xonar Essence STX is noted for having basically the output power of a FiiO E9 amp, Creative recently upgraded the power output of their latest Z-series cards, so if you want an all-in-one solution it would behoove you to check those out.


----------



## apav

Soundblaster Z has about the same power output as the Xonar Essence STX, but it's around the same sound quality as the Xonar D1? I'd rather just buy a sound card powerful enough to drive it well (so it doesn't underperform) and buy an external amp later for on the go. 
   
  Like I said in the other thread I'm not sure how the DT 990's will sound with a $100-$150 sound card (capable of powering it) vs. an entry level sound card and a portable amp in the same range as the E10 or E11 (if that's even enough).
   
  Thanks!


----------



## Impulse

Cheapest solutions would be an STX or a Xonar DGX + Schiit Magni/E9, either way you're looking at $150+... That is, if you want something powerful enough to power a pair of those Beyers and you want virtual surround processing for games. Even if you skip out the sound card and opt for an external USB DAC you'd end up spending around the same altogether (for a decent DAC anyway).

If you find the Beyers for a good enough price it's still cheaper than the HE-400 + a DAC or card, but it's not a massive difference ($50-75), Beyer DT 880/990 prices on Amazon (whether Pro or Premium) tend to swing wildly throughout the year but they can all be found for under $230 during the holiday season or elsewhere.

None of these headphones are really suited for portable use btw, due to their open nature, but they're certainly transportable... Beyer DT 770/880/990 are pretty compact for full size headphones and most come with a vinyl carrying case with foam padding.


----------



## apav

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Cheapest solutions would be an STX or a Xonar DGX + Schiit Magni/E9, either way you're looking at $150+... That is, if you want something powerful enough to power a pair of those Beyers and you want virtual surround processing for games. Even if you skip out the sound card and opt for an external USB DAC you'd end up spending around the same altogether (for a decent DAC anyway).
> 
> If you find the Beyers for a good enough price it's still cheaper than the HE-400 + a DAC or card, but it's not a massive difference ($50-75), Beyer DT 880/990 prices on Amazon (whether Pro or Premium) tend to swing wildly throughout the year but they can all be found for under $230 during the holiday season or elsewhere.
> 
> None of these headphones are really suited for portable use btw, due to their open nature, but they're certainly transportable... Beyer DT 770/880/990 are pretty compact for full size headphones and most come with a vinyl carrying case with foam padding.


 
  Yea I am most likely going to pick up the 250 Ohm Pro version from amazon for $200. Well how about the Soundblaster Z? $100 and powerful enough to drive these headphones. If I do get that I might spend the extra $50 for that neat module, that would surely help. Don't know how those compare to any of the Xonars though, just the cheapest option I have seen so far. 
   
  And I didn't mean actual on the go listening, I dorm at college so I bring my laptop there. If I bring my headphones I'd need a portable amp in order to listen to it there. I'm home now, that's why I was thinking about getting a sound card for now and saving up for a portable amp powerful enough for these headphones.
   
  Edit: It's official. Snatched a DT 990 Pro off ebay with a CAD HA4 amp for $180!!


----------



## Impulse

Yeah I've read good things about the Z series, tho I've yet to hear one, the on-board amp's probably good enough to drive the Beyers if the Z has the same one as the Zx (I think it does, latter one just has the extra control pod)... CMSS-3D surround emulation (Creative Cards) vs Dolby Headphone (ASUS Xonars and others) is more a matter of personal taste.


----------



## apav

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Yeah I've read good things about the Z series, tho I've yet to hear one, the on-board amp's probably good enough to drive the Beyers if the Z has the same one as the Zx (I think it does, latter one just has the extra control pod)... CMSS-3D surround emulation (Creative Cards) vs Dolby Headphone (ASUS Xonars and others) is more a matter of personal taste.


 
  Did some checking, the Z and the Zx are the same cards, the difference is the control module. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they ditched the CMSS-3D (something about it being dead tech) for something called SBX surround. It's something with THX I'm pretty sure.


----------



## ruuku

Finally got around to writing the comparison/review of the Modmic V2 and the Labtec LVA 7330:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Voice clarity: ModMic 9/10, Labtec 7.5/10 The ModMic was much, much clearer than the Labtec. To be fair, the Labtec is a noise cancelling (NC from here on) mic, so this rating is situational. I’m fortunate enough to game in a location with very low ambient noise, and I feel that there is enough of a difference between environments that it is necessary to put up this disclaimer. Many of you, while gaming with headphones, are seeking to block outside noise and a NC mic will extend this courtesy to those that you’re chatting with. Right now, we are experiencing cool (for Honolulu, Hawaii) temperatures of about 65°-68° at night. In a few months I’ll start testing with a Vornado fan on to see if there’s a noticeable change (I’m expecting there should be) but for pure sound clarity the Omni-directional non-noise cancelling seems to be the winner by and far. When chatting with my friends for the first time the first words were “Wow... what the hell did you do? You’re so much louder and clearer.” 


Setup: Modmic 9/10, Labtec 6.5/10. Well this is just unfair for the Labtec, after all we’re repurposing a headset mic to become a boom mic to add on to headphones, but I’ll be honest, the Labtec clearly loses in this category. After dremeling off the headband portion of the mic, you're left with a crescent shaped portion to attach to your headphones. Velcro™ seems to be the adhesive of choice, and it works well enough, but I’ve found that after repeated removal the adhesive starts coming off, and furthermore the ball joint on my Labtec started to lose its rigidity and the boom arm would flail about. The ModMic attaches with a simple plastic base clasp that has a strong rare earth magnet in the center, and a 3M™ adhesive backing. Included in the purchase is an alcohol swab, a nice touch. There are also four triangles on both the mic and the base clasp that center and interlock/align the mic when attached. The wire attached to the Modmic is very flexible and moldable, so its not too bothered by imperfect placement of the base clasp. That being said I wish these was just a little more adjustment in the rotation of the base clasp/mic. I’m thinking more like gears than the triangles used.... This would lend more rotational adjustability, but this is fairly nitpicky. 

Connectors: Modmic 8/10 Labtec 9/10. Here we can see the difference between an OEM/major manufacturer versus a small boutique shop. The Labtec comes with a pink plastic encased gold plated 3.5mm connector. It’s designed as a PC mic, and it shows through its color coded connector. The modmic on the other hand has a very simple, and very slim cable and silver 3.5mm connector. Points for having a very small diameter cable, but for the price I’d like to have a gold plated connector. It might be a placebo effect, but I seem to have better luck with gold plated connections lasting longer than their regular sliver counterparts. On the mic end of the cable the Labtec strain relief is pretty nonexistent or hidden beyond the plastic circle. The wire is wedged between two interlocking pieces of plastic and will not be moving at all. (I put quite a bit of pressure tugging on it and found no visible/tactile movement/give). The Modmic has a small diameter strain relief which goes from the inner steel wire to the cable and is made up of a sturdy plastic which terminates into a soft flexible strain relief for the cable. The fit and finish through the whole product is very good. At this point I have to admit that this is being a bit nitpicky, but that’s just my personality. 


Price: Modmic $37.68, Labtec $15.00, DX Clip-on $2.31: Well... yeah. The numbers don’t lie. The ModMic is expensive. However, the value depends entirely up to you. I play almost every night, usually in a party of three to four, for about 2-3 hours a day... my mic gets a fair amount of use. Struggling with the Labtec was just not an option for me anymore, and I’m very satisfied with my purchase. Come summer, and the with the use of a fan through the night, if I get complaints of background noise I may just purchase the V3... we’ll see. I think this is a testament as to how much I enjoy using the ModMic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll add your comparison to the guide when I get home, Ruuku. Thanks for this.

I kinda wish I didnt give the Slyr to my aunt (she'd use it for tablet use), as I have to deal with the DX mic again. Nothing wrong with it, but having a headset for a while then going back to an external mic, lol. Ah well, I never use it, so on the off chance I do, its a minor hassle, not a major one.

If I did game a lot with voice chat, I would have definitely kept the Slyr.


----------



## Vader2k

Nice write-up Ruuku!
   
  I use the LVA 7330 and had been using regular velcro on my other headphones.  However, for attaching to the Annies, I went with this stuff from 3M:



  Instead of typical hook and eye attachment, it's made up of tiny plastic mushroom-shaped stalks that when pressed together interlock really nicely.  The grip is much stronger and sturdier.  The only downside is I have to press a bit to get it to latch, which means putting pressure on the outer grill of the ear cup.
   
  Ok, so on a different topic, last night I was using the Annies straight off the mixamp (magni is on it's way back to Schiit for an exchange) and I went onto youtube via the Xbox 360 app.  I decided to search for sound test clips and came across this:
   

   
  At about 14 seconds, a helicopter sound effect moves around.  At one point, I heard the helicopter moving up and over my head.  I was surprised to hear this, as the way I understood it, standard dolby headphone only did positional audio in a single plane and that true 3D surround (including sounds above and below you) was only achievable from PC soundcards playing content designed with 3D surround playback in mind.
   
  Anyway, listening to this got me wondering about something.  Mad (or anyone, really), when you put headphones and headsets through the paces, do you have a standard set of content you try out to see how they perform in specific areas?


----------



## Impulse

apav said:


> Did some checking, the Z and the Zx are the same cards, the difference is the control module. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they ditched the CMSS-3D (something about it being dead tech) for something called SBX surround. It's something with THX I'm pretty sure.




There wasn't anything dead or outdated about CMSS-3D, you might be thinking of EAX? (which pretty much died a few years ago and was only kept around for older games thru Alchemy) I don't know if SBX is merely CMSS-3D under a different name or if they've actually decided to overhaul their virtualized surround scheme for some reason, haven't seen anyone compare them yet.


----------



## lubczyk

Just took a look at the Skullcandy Plyr 2. It has no 3.5 mm output jack. That's absurd!!! The Slyr has a 3.5mm jack, why not Skullcandy's other models?  I want to get my brother the Plyr 1 when it comes out in March, but this would make it almost useless with his computer and phone.. Fix this **** Skullcandy!!! For goodness sake, the A50s have a regular 3.5 mm headphone out, why not the Plyr 1 and 2?


----------



## Impulse

ruuku said:


> Finally got around to writing the comparison/review of the Modmic V2 and the Labtec LVA 7330:
> ...




Very nice comparison, is that a v1 Modmic or a v2? I don't even remember what changed between those (maybe just their capsule supplier?), I just remember reading their blog post about the newly available v2 and upcoming NC v3...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vader2k said:


> At about 14 seconds, a helicopter sound effect moves around.  At one point, I heard the helicopter moving up and over my head.  I was surprised to hear this, as the way I understood it, standard dolby headphone only did positional audio in a single plane and that true 3D surround (including sounds above and below you) was only achievable from PC soundcards playing content designed with 3D surround playback in mind.
> 
> Anyway, listening to this got me wondering about something.  Mad (or anyone, really), when you put headphones and headsets through the paces, do you have a standard set of content you try out to see how they perform in specific areas?




Not sure how to view that vid. Is virtual surround mixed into the vid, or do you have to listen to it and add DH to it?

As for testing, unfortunately, I don't have specific content to test virtual surround with. I will mostly play a lot of rounds of Modern Warfare 2's multiplayer (which to me, has the best positional cues on any game I have ever played), and then random other games like Mass Etfect 3, CoD4, Black Ops, etc.

I do tend to play Avatar on Blu-Ray and go to the scene where the jackals surround the group in the forest. Some pretty good positional cues there, though sporadic.

I am currently playing Asura's Wrath, and dear god, that game has one of the worst audio mixing I've heard to date. Almost zero positional cues, the sound quality is horrible, and volume spikes up during certain scenes, as well as voices being too quiet half the time. Whomever did the audio for that game should be fired.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lubczyk said:


> Just took a look at the Skullcandy Plyr 2. It has no 3.5 mm output jack. That's absurd!!! The Slyr has a 3.5mm jack, why not Skullcandy's other models?  I want to get my brother the Plyr 1 when it comes out in March, but this would make it almost useless with his computer and phone.. Fix this **** Skullcandy!!! For goodness sake, the A50s have a regular 3.5 mm headphone out, why not the Plyr 1 and 2?




Are you sure? People on AVS are using the Plyr 2 with the Mixamp (Mixamp to the base station) so I think you're missing something...

Edit: Can't you just use a cable and attach it to the base's RCA input? All you need is an RCA to 3.5mm cable. That would allow ot to be used with stuff like phones, though I'd probably get a really long run, if the phone/pc is far from the Plyr's base.

The A50's don't have a direct 3.5mm input to the headset, FWIR. I think the 3.5mm input was for mp3 use and was on the transmitter, not the headset itself.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure how to view that vid. Is virtual surround mixed into the vid, or do you have to listen to it and add DH to it?


 
   
  Oh, good question; not sure if virtual surround is mixed in or not.  I was using DH off the mixamp, but perhaps it works without?  Not sure (and my laptop speakers aren't too great to compare with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not home, and because I'm currently using the KSC 75 at work, not entirely sure the vid is working properly through my phone. It sounds like the surround is mixed in to the vid, but not entirely sure.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm not home, and because I'm currently using the KSC 75 at work, not entirely sure the vid is working properly through my phone. It sounds like the surround is mixed in to the vid, but not entirely sure.


 
  It is mixed in or the CAL has 10.2 built right into it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, ok. I thought so, but the KSC75's sound presentation is so different from full sized, I didn't wanna assume.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, ok. I thought so, but the KSC75's sound presentation is so different from full sized, I didn't wanna assume.


 
  Could be I just think in dolby headphone at all times now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  For reasons I can't explain but am a sucker, I snagged a pair of DT990 600s off amazon for 268 I know it isn't the cheapest price but it smokes Canadian pricing on them if you can even find them.. Going to be sending the HE400 back in the next couple of days. I am going to miss that sound though. /sigh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why are you sending it back? First the Annie, now the HE400. What gives? Lol. You're beginning to sound like me. DT990 TO HE400 TO DT990 TO HE400 TO ANNIE. Gah!

Though you're going the other direction, lol.


----------



## Hailin

I know. But it all comes down to comfort in the end with good sound. And though I think both are technically wonderful I find them both very painful to wear. The Annie's with the jaw issue, and the weight of the HE400. Right in the center of my head it just starts to ache and then my neck starts to get incredibly sore if I try to use it in a normal length gaming session.
If the Annie pads had been smaller and it had just a tad more fun I would have been sold on them. If I had my way though I don't think they would have been as popular either. 
 I just need to find a closed full size I can use when the house is unruly till I can save up and afford the T1 or LCD(if I can handle the weight of it. Which somehow I doubt.)


----------



## pric0

im a competitive fps gamer, and i already ordered Samson SR850, i didn't try them out yet
  but i think i need more then that, for my needs (CS 1.6/CSGO/QL).
  anyways i narrowed my options to PC350, PC360 and AD700.
  i want AD700 but they look like and people say they are - not comfortable.
  on the other hand, PC360 has a little worse soundstage (tough better bass), and are more comfortable (tough they cost quite more).
  and the last one is the PC350, which i save as an option cause ever since i know my self i used closed headphones.
   
  i want to remind you that SR850 are partially opened.
  some help about it, and consider that fps gaming is my top priority (almost the only priority).
   
  btw: i plan to buy Creative X-Fi Titanium 7.1, will it go well with any of the headphones i mentioned for higher in-game detailing? thanks


----------



## apav

Quote: 





impulse said:


> There wasn't anything dead or outdated about CMSS-3D, you might be thinking of EAX? (which pretty much died a few years ago and was only kept around for older games thru Alchemy) I don't know if SBX is merely CMSS-3D under a different name or if they've actually decided to overhaul their virtualized surround scheme for some reason, haven't seen anyone compare them yet.


 
  Yes it was EAX I'm pretty sure. So the Soundblaster Z is the only card for $100 that can drive my Beyer DT 990's and provide good surround sound for gaming? Right now I've only seen that and a used STX for like $150. Only thing I heard is the Z is not that great for music, and the STX is a good all rounder.


----------



## Evshrug

impulse said:


> There wasn't anything dead or outdated about CMSS-3D, you might be thinking of EAX? (which pretty much died a few years ago and was only kept around for older games thru Alchemy) I don't know if SBX is merely CMSS-3D under a different name or if they've actually decided to overhaul their virtualized surround scheme for some reason, haven't seen anyone compare them yet.




Creative's THX TruStudio Pro sounds significantly different from CMSS-3D to me. THX was used between CMSS-3D and SBX, it's suspected that SBX is just a hasty rename of THX to avoid brand fees, *but* I haven't heard anyone say yet if they actually sound different. Older doesn't matter much, Dlby Headphone is older than Creative's processing. 


*Vader2k,*
10.2 is basically what they use in commercial theaters. Not all theaters, but many. If you look at the picture, the 10.2 setup calls for two speakers to be positioned above the seating area, so you have one more plane for sound to come from. There's no above-front or above-rear (though blending/panning between the surround "ring" and the height speakers, plus speakers with really good "out of the cabinet" imaging, helps to midi gate this), and of course there are no speakers below either. 7.1 surround can be set up with the "extra" two speakers above the L/R fronts, but the processing is designed for them to still be forward from you, and console games don't take advantage of the height at all (@ least on Xbox, highly unlikely on the PS3). Can Dolby Headphone do height 7.1 with movies? I don't know. Since PC games can "position" sounds above and below from any angle, they still have an advantage.

My standard surround tests, when I had access to two processing methods, was the first cutscene in Halo:Reach where helicopters (hornets) and warthogs woosh past from behind-to-front followed by a scene with different machines and people talking, as well as the first prerendered cutscene in StarCraft II where Emperor Mensk [sic] is "freeing" Tychus Findlay by sealing him inside armor, with lots of machines and whirring and hissing from all angles while Mensk narrates underneath it all. I played a bunch of SWAT mode in Reach to test in-game surround. I'm REALLY looking forward to setting up Borderlands 2 for PC with OpenAL, I think that will be a great test of 3D surround (and PhysX).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





lubczyk said:


> Just took a look at the Skullcandy Plyr 2. It has no 3.5 mm output jack. That's absurd!!! The Slyr has a 3.5mm jack, why not Skullcandy's other models?  I want to get my brother the Plyr 1 when it comes out in March, but this would make it almost useless with his computer and phone.. Fix this **** Skullcandy!!! For goodness sake, the A50s have a regular 3.5 mm headphone out, why not the Plyr 1 and 2?


 
   
   
  I assume you mean 3.5mm input to play music, etc? Afaik the A50's don't have a 3.5mm input jack except on the base either. Attaching a wire to headphones that are supposed to be wireless doesn't make much sense to me. But it would have been a nice addition no doubt.
   
  -Erik
   
  Edit: Just saw MLE already addressed this.


----------



## Evshrug

pric0 said:


> im a competitive fps gamer, and i already ordered Samson SR850, i didn't try them out yet
> but i think i need more then that, for my needs (CS 1.6/CSGO/QL).
> anyways i narrowed my options to PC350, PC360 and AD700.
> i want AD700 but they look like and people say they are - not comfortable.
> ...




If you can find the Titanium 7.1 PCI-e card anymore, it should do a fine job. All the headphones you mentioned are pretty easy to drive. Try the Samson's out first before buying more. I have the AD700, which I find very comfortable, even for long gaming sessions, after I bent the headband a bit to angle the earcups more flat against my head. I haven't heard the Sennheiser headsets myself, but after buying "better" headphones (Q701) I remain convinced that the competitive advantage cannot be improved from the AD700 with a good soundcard and surround processing. I do prefer the Q701 for music and it's awesome for gaming too, but I haven't been able to let go of the AD700 because it's nice without amping, the soundstage is so even and wide, and the headphone is really lightweight with no headband "bumps" or discomfort.


----------



## pric0

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you can find the Titanium 7.1 PCI-e card anymore, it should do a fine job. All the headphones you mentioned are pretty easy to drive. Try the Samson's out first before buying more. I have the AD700, which I find very comfortable, even for long gaming sessions, after I bent the headband a bit to angle the earcups more flat against my head. I haven't heard the Sennheiser headsets myself, but after buying "better" headphones (Q701) I remain convinced that the competitive advantage cannot be improved from the AD700 with a good soundcard and surround processing. I do prefer the Q701 for music and it's awesome for gaming too, but I haven't been able to let go of the AD700 because it's nice without amping, the soundstage is so even and wide, and the headphone is really lightweight with no headband "bumps" or discomfort.


 
  wow, thanks a lot..
  yea it's the Titanium 7.1 PCI-e but there's the Sound Blaster version (the one with the closed face design), and it's said to be better, what's your opinion on that?
  i will probably get AD700, cause there cant be such fuss about something for no reason..
  thanks again


----------



## Fulch36

Okay the majority of my new setup has arrived (just waiting on the new headphone amp) so I can weigh in on a few things: I've now got a ModMic 2.0 that I've been comparing with the mic on my PC360, I've finally been able to try out MyEars 3D Audio and I've begun to compare my shiny new X1's to the PC360.
   
  To start with the shortest write-up first: *Modmic 2.0 vs PC360 Mic*
   


Spoiler: Modmic%202.0%20vs%20PC360%20mic



 
  This comparison will be fairly simple seeing as there are already several other reviews of the Modmic 1.0 elsewhere and as far as I know, the purpose of the 2.0 wasn't an attempt to improve the sound quality - it came from switching to another manufacturer (if I'm wrong in this then feel free to correct me). Something that must be noted is that the Modmic (MM from here onwards) is omni-directional and does not feature any kind of noise cancelling, the PC360 mic is uni-directional and is noise cancelling - there is a video on the Antlion Youtube channel that compares the noise cancelling MM3.0 to the MM2.0, the differences between the PC360 mic and the MM2.0 are pretty similar so you can judge the difference for yourself to a certain extent.
   
  The MM sounds far more natural to me and those I tested it with, when compared to the PC360 which sounded a little bit robotic. The MM also seemed to produce a greater frequency response in comparison with the PC360 mic, which again helped it to sound more natural by giving a more true-to-life representation of my voice. I recieved no complaints of noise when I used the MM so for my usage the lack of noise cancelling is a non-issue (the enviroment I use it in is essentially my own office at home, the only real sources of noise are my typing and the huge fans in my desktop).
   


   
  Next: *MyEars vs Dolby Headphone*
   


Spoiler: MyEars%20vs%20Dolby%20Headphone



 
  I'd read conflicted comments on which was superior or if there was any real difference at all between the two, I tried MyEars out with the PC360 because my X1's had not shown up by the time I wanted to test it out - therefore I had a set of cans that are known for having a great soundstage and positional audio and have used Dolby Headphone from my Mixamp with them for several years.
   
  MyEars has a fairly lengthy set-up process that must be completed with each set of cans that you want to use with the software (it took me around 30 minutes though I rushed the latter half of it) and is only compatible with PC audio, whilst the creators did say they were going to get console audio working it seems that all development has ceased. Judging by their Facebook and Twitter feeds it looks like it never really took off so there was little reason for them to continue working on it.
   
  So, how did it sound once the set-up was complete? Superb, well in terms of positional audio at the very least. I allowed myself to get accustomed to MyEars for a while before I A/B'd between it and DH, I found that whilst DH is very clear on sounds that are coming from in front of you it isn't so great with rearward sounds (again, this could well just be with the PC360). MyEars was great at simulating a true 7.1 enviroment in terms of speaker placement but it fell flat on it's face when compared to the soundstage of DH.
   
  I don't know about other people but the moment I press that DH button on the Mixamp the soundstage grows immensely which I like very much and find that it's more pleasing to my ears during games compared to the more intimate presentation that stereo sound delivers. MyEars sounds like you are wearing some ridiculous contraption that has somehow allowed you to position seven speakers around your head, DH sounds like these speakers are spread out around the room as they would be in a real surround sound set-up.
   
  Initially I thought I would end up using MyEars for competitive play (which I don't do very often) and DH for everything else, that was until I noticed the distortion. MyEars seems to distort certain frequencies in the upper-mid to treble region for me (this isn't something I have seen others complain about) - this is nost noticeable when characters are speaking, whilst I could have coped with a smaller soundstage this was the final nail in the coffin for MyEars. I am by no means disappointed by DH but I now know that it can be bettered for at least positional audio.
   


   
  And finally: *Sennheiser PC360 vs Philips Fidelio X1*
   


Spoiler: Sennheiser%20PC360%20vs%20Philips%20Fidelio%20X1



 
  I don't think I'm quite done with this comparison yet so it will be updated at least twice more (once when I believe I've spent enough time adjusting to the X1's and again when the new amp arrives) so please don't consider this to be my final impression.
   
  A preface on why I purchased these two sets of cans:
   
  I chose to purchase the PC360 several years ago when I was very much so into my competitive gaming, I spent several hours a day just playing competitively both by myself and in a party. Seeing as I was typically spending the greatest amount of time on shooters I chose to get something that had great positional audio and a wide soundstage - I was not aware of the MM at this point so I was only looking at headsets. Unfortunately, having endured thousands of hours of use as both my gaming headphones and my music headphones (their presentation suited my preference for music at the time) they have started to develop a channel imbalance issue which is only exaggerated by the channel imbalance on my Mixamp.
   
  I decided that my replacement for them did not need to focus on positional audio as much seeing as I spend very little time playing competitively anymore, instead I wanted to find something that could provide me with the one thing the PC360 always lacked: bass.
   
  I always considered the PC360 to be bass-light (especially when compared with my bass heavy iem's that I use when exercising) but decided it was the price I had to pay to get the gaming prowess they delivered. I had a listen to the HD650 in a local department store not too long ago and liked what I heard, I had stuck with Sennheiser iem's for years and so liked the 'house sound' they provided - the set-up in the store allowed me to use my own source (only had my phone with me at the time) but I got to spend around an hour or so with them, the only thing I thought they were lacking compared to the PC360 was the soundstage though obviously I could not test their positional audio credentials. I was initially leaning towards the HE-400, then when MLE got his hands on the Annies I set my heart on them - however I began to see the odd reference to a set of Philips headphones that were impressing people and did more research.
   
  I purchased the X1's a few weeks ago from Amazon Italy for a sum of £166.50 including shipping, this is roughly half of what I would have to pay to get hold of the Annies or the HE-400 in the UK.
   
  And so, onto the comparison:
   
  The two sets of cans are similar in both size and comfort for me, though the X1's clamp a bit less and are slightly smaller than the PC360's due to the circular shape of the pads. The X1's definitely feel better made to me, they are largely made of metal with a leather headband and a mesh-foam cushion that is reminiscient of the headband on Turtle Beach's headsets. The pads on the X1's are velour like those on the PC360 but they are slightly different in texture, I prefer the texture of those on the PC360 which feel more like suede to me than the velvety feel of the X1's - that being said, the padding is better on the X1's.
   
  The cable on the X1's is detachable unlike the PC360 and is a cloth braided cable - I HATE these kinds of cable with a passion. Why? Because if you've ever attempted to move around, even a tiny amount, whilst using headphones with a cloth cable then you'll have experienced the microphonics these types of cables can deliver. It sounds like someone is unzipping a coat right next to my ear whenever I move around whilst wearing the X1's, the rubber cable on the PC360 still suffers from some slight microphonics but they pale in comparison to the X1's. But, as I said, the cable is detachable and can be replaced on the X1's - something I intend to do as quickly as I can.
   
  And so, onto the bit you've probably skipped past the rest of my waffle to get to, *the sound*:
   
  Going into this comparison I was expecting the soundstage to be inferior on the X1's - boy was I ever wrong!! Whilst I haven't had a lot of experience with high-end headphones (besides using the Q701's a friend of mine owns and my brief experience of the HD650's) I didn't think it was possible for the soundstage to get much better than on the PC360, the X1's sound wider in both stereo and DH - they don't ever sound overly distant though. This wider soundstage led me to notice something else that is vastly superior on the X1's - seperation. On some of the busier tracks in my library, the instruments and vocals sounded as though they were jostling for space - I assumed this was because they were badly arranged tracks but again, the X1's proved me wrong.
   
  To attempt to convey just how much of an improvement I experienced between the two, I actually noticed that there were backing vocals during the chorus of one of my favourite tracks of all time that I'd never heard before - I had always thought it was simply some distortion that I was hearing due to how far forward the PC360 pushes the mids and treble!
   
  As for the bass that the PC360 is lacking, the X1's deliver in spades - I had never really been bothered by the lack of bass in the PC360 until recently, a friend of mine begun producing dubstep a while ago and has been doing rather well for himself from it - he got me into more electronic music that I previously didn't really appreciate. I ended up leaving the PC360's behind when I visited some family over Christmas and so had to do all of my listening through my iem's which are rather bass heavy, switching back to the PC360 a few weeks later left me craving that bass and wishing the PC360 didn't sound so lifeless when listening to those types of music. The X1's deliver all the bass I could ever want, the presentation of it is most definitely not neutral but it is rarely pushed far enough forward to inhibit my enjoyment of the other frequencies in a given track.
   
  This presentation is rather different when compared to the PC360 and has taken me a long time to adjust to, because of this I don't want to comment on the mids and treble just yet until I think I've become accustomed to the X1's a little more. As for gaming with them, again this is something I haven't had a lot of chance to do with them just yet though I am looking forward to seeing how the boost in soundstage and seperation manifests itself in games.
   
  My only other comment on the X1's at the moment is with driving them, I mentioned earlier than I've purchased an additional amp to help the Mixamp drive them - I initially didn't think it was going to be necessary until I attempted to play a little bit of League of Legends whilst in a Skype call last week. Whilst this game is hardly known for having superb audio, everything sounded so thin and distant when the game/voice balance dial was at a 50/50 split that I nearly switched back to the PC360 there and then. My plan is to get an amp now and then sometime in the coming months, purchase a Xonar DG to handle Dolby Headphone and have the audio sent over Optical Toslink to an external DAC (I've read conflicting reports over whether the DG will do Dolby Headphone over Optical but if it doesn't work then I'll just stick the card up on eBay).
   


   
  I'll update this post at some point (or maybe just do a seperate new one that solely covers the PC360 vs the X1's), I'm happy to add pictures or answer any questions anyone has regarding either of these sets of cans. I reeeeeeeeeally hope the X1's do make it to the US so you guys can compare them to what you own, I have a feeling they will sound a lot like the HE-400 but they should be more comfortable due to their weight and the headband design.


----------



## Evshrug

Fulch36,
An absolutely delicious amount of info in your post, well done! I highly recommend that you save the hyperlink to your post, so that once new posts bury it, you can still recall it for someone who asks. I would highly appreciate it if you could repost your MyEars vs Dolby Headphone experience to my thread, which recently covered different surround technologies and adding your experience would be very helpful for others to reference. I also wonder what you would say about the CMSS-3D sample I have in my article... I wish I had my own recorded sample of THX TruStudio Pro for others to compare, but I still haven't figured out how to record videos with the processing "baked-in." I may resort to just recording via the mic-in and GarageBand, and trying to sync up a video clip.

My thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/15#post_9102117

pric0,
Both Titaniums are made by Creative as part of their Sound Blaster line... Luckily there are only two models, the titanium and titanium HD. The HD model of course uses the same surround processing (CMSS-3D, that can do 3D surround) and the improved amp will only make a slight difference for the easy-to-drive AD700, the benefit would be from the higher quality DAC and greater availability... The cheaper Titanium has suddenly gone out of stock in most places (Newegg lists it as discontinued), while recently J&R (on amazon) put the Titanium HD on sale for $110. Creative is also selling their new Sound Blaster Z at around $100 if you missed the Ti HD deal, it can also perform 3D surround but it uses SBX Pro Studio instead of CMSS-3D to do that (I haven't heard SBX, but my ears responded to creative's last processing effort better than CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone, and it's suspected that SBX sounds the same as what I have). You can also check the used market for a cheaper price, or, if you don't think it will be important to hear sounds come from above or below you, you can get an Asus sound card with Dolby Headphone for a cheaper price too.

Oh, by the way, what I use is Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB, it's an external sound card that can also be plugged into a console like PS3 or Xbox. It uses THX TruStudio Pro for virtual surround, that's what Creative after CMSS-3D and before SBX, and it's so far the best surround processing I've heard for *my ears.* The AD700 sounds great straight off it, it even responds well to the bass boost feature, though I don't think it's USB powered amp is enough by itself for my Q701s... without double-amping, the Q's soundstage collapses and sounds dull, even a bit harsh with hot treble sounds like the CoD4 heli guns. With the Q's this is solved with either my Tube amp or my new FiiO E12, but the AD700 doesn't need that. With a modest bass boost, I was actually impressed with the AD700 while playing through Metro 2033, particularly when the Anomalies fly by. WOOOOOOOOM! NamelessPFG has a Titanium HD he's keeping and a Recon3D he wants to sell for like $70; get that, the AD700, and a ModMic or something and you'll have a very competitive headphone setup. That's just based on my opinion and taste, but then I say it from using the combo.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Thanks to headfi I just went 33-10 in COD lol. Finally got to try cod in surround sound, definetly a huge improvement on my performance.


----------



## Evshrug

Woot! Now, play Reach on the SWAT playlist in the Zealot map 
Also, try out the campaign opening cinematic for Reach.


----------



## pric0

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Fulch36,
> An absolutely delicious amount of info in your post, well done! I highly recommend that you save the hyperlink to your post, so that once new posts bury it, you can still recall it for someone who asks. I would highly appreciate it if you could repost your MyEars vs Dolby Headphone experience to my thread, which recently covered different surround technologies and adding your experience would be very helpful for others to reference. I also wonder what you would say about the CMSS-3D sample I have in my article... I wish I had my own recorded sample of THX TruStudio Pro for others to compare, but I still haven't figured out how to record videos with the processing "baked-in." I may resort to just recording via the mic-in and GarageBand, and trying to sync up a video clip.
> 
> My thread:
> ...


 
  i can stress this enough.. but man, thanks so much 
  i dont have a problem to buy the 1st Titanium , it's sold in lots of stores in my country, and they are in stock.
  the price he sells the recon3d is good, but i think i'll prefer the Titanium's.. the problem is which one, and that's cause the one you said that is on sale, cant be delivered to my country (israel.. probably cause of our parasite customs and high tax).
   
  hard call, but i think i still want the hd version.. will need to check buying options for it, if not ill buy the non-hd.
  thanks again man  very detailed explination


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Ok, so on a different topic, last night I was using the Annies straight off the mixamp (magni is on it's way back to Schiit for an exchange) and I went onto youtube via the Xbox 360 app.  I decided to search for sound test clips and came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This case seems to be a bit different, as I'm guessing from the video itself that the helicopter recordings were meant for a 10.2 speaker system-pictured with two height channels, at that-being binaurally mixed for headphone use.
   
  Current Dolby Headphone processors can only get a 7.1 signal at most, and a typical 7.1 system has no height channels whatsoever. It may be possible to pull off some HRTF/ERTF trickery to get the illusion of height from a ring of speakers all placed at the same elevation, but that's much harder than it is with headphones because of the natural crossfeed involved.
   
  My general go-to games for positional audio are Unreal Tournament, Battlefield 1942, Battlefield 2, and Thief, all of which make nice use of my X-Fi card's DSP (especially BF2).
   
  Quote: 





apav said:


> Yes it was EAX I'm pretty sure. So the Soundblaster Z is the only card for $100 that can drive my Beyer DT 990's and provide good surround sound for gaming? Right now I've only seen that and a used STX for like $150. Only thing I heard is the Z is not that great for music, and the STX is a good all rounder.


 
   
  Is there any reason you're not considering the X-Fi Titanium HD at all? No proper built-in headphone amp?


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Fulch36,
> An absolutely delicious amount of info in your post, well done! I highly recommend that you save the hyperlink to your post, so that once new posts bury it, you can still recall it for someone who asks. I would highly appreciate it if you could repost your MyEars vs Dolby Headphone experience to my thread, which recently covered different surround technologies and adding your experience would be very helpful for others to reference. I also wonder what you would say about the CMSS-3D sample I have in my article... I wish I had my own recorded sample of THX TruStudio Pro for others to compare, but I still haven't figured out how to record videos with the processing "baked-in." I may resort to just recording via the mic-in and GarageBand, and trying to sync up a video clip.
> 
> My thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/15#post_9102117


 
   
  I'll repost the comparison on your thread in just a bit, had a read through your first post and couldn't agree more with your comments regarding what works for each individual - it was that fact that drove me to really want to try MyEars, if everyone could come up with their own profile that works then it would be possible to have a baseline to work with in order to compare the other technologies with (ie if a custom MyEars profile is the best that surround sound can get for me then how does CMSS-3D compare for me, how does DH compare etc).
   
  This would of meant that we got of put together some kinda MyEars profile repository for newcomers to try, they try each profile to find out which works best for them and then see what general surround sound tech worked best for the person who made that profile (so if MLE made one and a newcomer found that his profile worked best for them then they know that DH is the way to go). That way, someone who is new to the tech could pretty much gurantee it will work for them to at least some degree.
   
  I tried out the video in your thread and it actually made the audio sound most similar to MyEars but without the distortion that I suffer from. I found another Youtube video comparing CMSS-3D and DH, this confirmed my thoughts about DH somehow making the soundstage sound wider to me - I would place CMSS-3D in between MyEars (ie smallest soundstage, worst audio quality but best positioning) and Dolby Headphone (ie largest soundstage, best audio quality and worst positioning) but would say that the audio quality differences between DH and CMSS-3D are EXTREMELY minor (ie in the video comparing the two I heard some very slight distortion when the window washing platform hit the ground on CMSS-3D that wasn't there with DH).
   
  I would definitely say that CMSS-3D gives me better rearward positioning as well, I would say I get something like 240 degress of surround sound from DH compared to a full 360 from CMSS-3D but again this is only based on these two videos. Vertical positioning is also better in CMSS-3D for me though I'm guessing this is expected, I'm assuming from the '3D' bit that it's meant to simulate height in audio as well - the scene in the Crysis video where the shuttle aircraft goes overhead sounded better in CMSS-3D.
   
  The video comparing DH and CMSS-3D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9ApNLMmeAs&list=UUqM-oxfSa1Z_BRgEq5amQUQ&index=21
   
  ^ Actually, I just noticed your posts in the comment for that video!!!
   
  What I'm tempted to do now is scrap the idea of getting a DG and get a Creative card with CMSS-3D or SBX/THX surround built-in, that way I can do a direct comparison between that and DH over a variety of games/media. I can also try out Silent Cinema at some point though that will not be for several months, I have a Yamaha reciever that supports it back home but I always just used my actual 5.1 set-up with that. If I can make the soundstage a little bit wider from CMSS-3D (hoping my amp might accomplish this) then I would be 100% satisfied with that.
   
  I'm assuming that the card the guy in the video is using supports both CMSS-3D and THX based on your exchange with him in the comments?


----------



## apav

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Is there any reason you're not considering the X-Fi Titanium HD at all? No proper built-in headphone amp?


 
  That's the only other sound card I'm looking at. Would you go for that over the Z? I'd like the card to have an amp, but I'm getting an amp anyway to hook it up to my laptop.


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless,
Some 7.1 surround tracks are designed with two speakers as height tracks, but they're meant to be positioned only a few feet above the fronts, so... they don't add a strong sense of height. Of course even that is moot point because games still are only designed with the 2D ring configuration in mind. I'm just saying SOME 7.1 setups with SOME movies support SOME height effect. Dolby Pro Logic IIz, right? Anyway, doesn't amount to much.

I think the Ti HD would be on apav's list if it had E9-level amping. The STX basically does. I'm not sure about the Z-series, but it IS supposed to be more powahful. Mad insists that even the low-voltage-required 32 Ohm DT990 requires gobs of current to sound full of body, and apav was getting the 250 ohm version which requires plenty of current AND voltage. Do you know the numbers for the Ti HD's headphone amp section? It may not matter though, as I believe he bought an external amp anyway... so the Titanium HD should be considered.

Hey, let's set up a Super Bowl party! I'll order pizza, we can DVR the commercials, and... Oh. Right. Internet makes me forget geography sometimes XD


Pric0,
I couldn't even tell you were from a different country  You're lucky to see the Ti in stores, I can't find it in the USA (at Best Buy, they only have the X-Fi Fatality & Recon3D PCI-E). NamelessPFG is the pro on Creative's soundcards and can best fill you in on what the HD version offers as an upgrade (and what Creative soundcards in general offer vs other options), though PurpleAngel and others have made good points about other models.

And helping makes me happy, it's addicting and I share my advice every day.


----------



## Evshrug

Fulch36,
Replied in my thread


----------



## apav

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> Some 7.1 surround tracks are designed with two speakers as height tracks, but they're meant to be positioned only a few feet above the fronts, so... they don't add a strong sense of height. Of course even that is moot point because games still are only designed with the 2D ring configuration in mind. I'm just saying SOME 7.1 setups with SOME movies support SOME height effect. Dolby Pro Logic IIz, right? Anyway, doesn't amount to much.
> 
> I think the Ti HD would be on apav's list if it had E9-level amping. The STX basically does. I'm not sure about the Z-series, but it IS supposed to be more powahful. Mad insists that even the low-voltage-required 32 Ohm DT990 requires gobs of current to sound full of body, and apav was getting the 250 ohm version which requires plenty of current AND voltage. Do you know the numbers for the Ti HD's headphone amp section? It may not matter though, as I believe he bought an external amp anyway... so the Titanium HD should be considered.
> ...


 

 You are awesome  When I bought my DT 990's, the seller included this amp for free.
  http://www.amazon.com/CAD-Audio-HA4-4-Channel-Headphone/dp/B005O656B8
   
  Don't really know how powerful that is. I just got to buy a 6.3mm to 3.5mm male to male cable and I'm all set  Most likely going to get the Sound Blaster ZX. New sound card (so hopefully driver support is good), amplifies up to 600 ohms, and comes with a neat little module so I won't have to pull out my desk each time I need to plug and unplug my headphones.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Woot! Now, play Reach on the SWAT playlist in the Zealot map
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  wow, I don't know why I havnt done that. I completely forgot about teting reach's audio


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fulch36 said:


> And finally: *Sennheiser PC360 vs Philips Fidelio X1*
> Going into this comparison I was expecting the soundstage to be inferior on the X1's - boy was I ever wrong!! Whilst I haven't had a lot of experience with high-end headphones (besides using the Q701's a friend of mine owns and my brief experience of the HD650's) I didn't think it was possible for the soundstage to get much better than on the PC360, the *X1's sound wider in both stereo and DH *- they don't ever sound overly distant though. This wider soundstage led me to notice something else that is *vastly superior on the X1's - seperation*. On some of the busier tracks in my library, the instruments and vocals sounded as though they were jostling for space - I assumed this was because they were badly arranged tracks but again, the X1's proved me wrong.


 
   
  What's that? 
   
  You say the X1 has wider soundstage and better separation than PC360?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





apav said:


> That's the only other sound card I'm looking at. Would you go for that over the Z? I'd like the card to have an amp, but I'm getting an amp anyway to hook it up to my laptop.


 
   
  I generally favor the X-Fi Titanium HD over most other sound cards on the market wherever gaming is concerned, due to feature set and excellent audio quality. Do note that I have a slight bias toward somewhat older titles, where most of the X-Fi gaming features beyond CMSS-3D Headphone are utilized.
   
  The lack of a proper headphone amp IC is no drawback to me, as it wouldn't drive my Stax setup anyway, and my dynamic cans of choice are sensitive enough to work well out of anything.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless,
> Some 7.1 surround tracks are designed with two speakers as height tracks, but they're meant to be positioned only a few feet above the fronts, so... they don't add a strong sense of height. Of course even that is moot point because games still are only designed with the 2D ring configuration in mind. I'm just saying SOME 7.1 setups with SOME movies support SOME height effect. Dolby Pro Logic IIz, right? Anyway, doesn't amount to much.
> 
> I think the Ti HD would be on apav's list if it had E9-level amping. The STX basically does. I'm not sure about the Z-series, but it IS supposed to be more powahful. Mad insists that even the low-voltage-required 32 Ohm DT990 requires gobs of current to sound full of body, and apav was getting the 250 ohm version which requires plenty of current AND voltage. Do you know the numbers for the Ti HD's headphone amp section? It may not matter though, as I believe he bought an external amp anyway... so the Titanium HD should be considered.
> ...


 
   
  To my knowledge, Dolby Pro Logic IIz is actually 9.1, with two added height channels over 7.1. Signal-wise, the height channels are matrixed into two of the existing channels for a 7.1 setup. So far, I know of absolutely no games that utilize it.
   
  I don't have any specs off the top of my head for the Titanium HD's headphone jack; amplifiers were never my strong suit anyway. I'm just concerned about the headphones being able to function at all.
   
  Oh, and here's a heads-up for everyone: Stax SR-207 + SRM-252S! It won't sell cheaply at this rate, though. There's also an SRM-1/Mk2 Pro that I'd like to get my hands on, but I just can't afford it right now...not that I really even need it, but it would really cut down on all the clutter on my desk.


----------



## Evshrug

Apav,
Sounds like good fortune for you! The other benefit of the Zx module, besides keeping things neat and convenient, is it supplies a mic that's supposed to be good at focusing on your voice and canceling out fans & keyboards & stuff. Listen to your headphones with music first, then compare your amp to the card's headphone out once you get it! I'm quite interested in the new Creative stuff, though (as I said) torn about the Ti HD too (and poor, lol).

Most hi-fi headphones (and one $2 headphone I saw Chicolom buy 0_o) come with a 1/4 to 1/8 plug adapter (6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter, just the plug, looks like a bullet), so you may not need to go out and buy one. The Zx module also has both sized outlets 

Edit: hmmmmmmmm... That bundled amp? 50mW? I'm thinking....... the iPod's built-in amp is more powerful than that  For comparison, a FiiO E11 produces about 300mW at 32 Ohms, and the E9 (and my E12) produces over 3x that much. It'll be interesting to read your findings


----------



## apav

evshrug said:


> Apav,
> Sounds like good fortune for you! The other benefit of the Zx module, besides keeping things neat and convenient, is it supplies a mic that's supposed to be good at focusing on your voice and canceling out fans & keyboards & stuff. Listen to your headphones with music first, then compare your amp to the card's headphone out once you get it! I'm quite interested in the new Creative stuff, though (as I said) torn about the Ti HD too (and poor, lol).
> 
> Most hi-fi headphones (and one $2 headphone I saw Chicolom buy 0_o) come with a 1/4 to 1/8 plug adapter (6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter, just the plug, looks like a bullet), so you may not need to go out and buy one. The Zx module also has both sized outlets
> ...



That's weird.. Its an amp designed for studio use according to the product website.. You can plug in four headphones at once..they have a combo deal of this amp and four of their headphones on amazon! Maybe the amazon page is wrong.. An iPod can't be more powerful than this! Lol


----------



## Impulse

fulch36 said:


> I'll update this post at some point (or maybe just do a seperate new one that solely covers the PC360 vs the X1's), I'm happy to add pictures or answer any questions anyone has regarding either of these sets of cans. I reeeeeeeeeally hope the X1's do make it to the US so you guys can compare them to what you own, I have a feeling they will sound a lot like the HE-400 but they should be more comfortable due to their weight and the headband design.




Very interesting comparison and overall impression of the X1, I look forward to your follow up post(s) about it... I really wish Philips would stop teasing us and release the damn things here already, sigh. I really want to try them out as a complement to my DT 880! (possibly for living room duty, primarily anyway)

I was thinking of getting a Magni along with them if I didn't enjoy the X1's sound out of my AVR's headphone out, but I've come to realize the RCA pre outs on the AVR won't work for any of the connected HDMI devices... I guess worst case scenario I just run the Magni off the headphone out or directly off my DVR's RCA out.

Did you notice anything peculiar when/if you swapped cables? There's some posts on the X1 thread about the stock cable supposedly not sounding right, tho as with most discussions about cables the whole thing seems very suspect to me.

I do like that it's easily replaceable tho, OTOH I figured 1/4" to 1/8" cables would be fairly common but Monoprice doesn't have any... I know you could just use a straight 1/4" cable plus an adapter, just seemed odd.


----------



## BetaWolf

Ordered my K702's yesterday. Couldn't afford Annies unfortunately, but still worth it over the K/Q701's since I like the aesthetics better on the K702's. Very nice looking cans IMO. Now to start saving up for that ZxR and research amps!


----------



## grizly

Hello,
  
 I want to buy new headphones. I will use them almost exclusively for gaming. I game on PC, I don't care about isolation, I won't use the headphones out of home, I want over-ear headphones and I don't need a a microphone attached to the headphones. The only important things for me are comfort (super important) and of course sound that suits my needs.
  
 As for amp, I read some about them and got the basic idea of the amps (and that's it, I have a really small knowledge about amps). I would like to ask how important an amp is for me, and should I get one considering my budget? If yes, then which one to get?
 BTW, the main genre I play is FPS.
  
 My budget for both headphones and amp: 400$ 
  
 Thank you very much


----------



## Evshrug

apav said:


> That's weird.. Its an amp designed for studio use according to the product website.. You can plug in four headphones at once..they have a combo deal of this amp and four of their headphones on amazon! Maybe the amazon page is wrong.. An iPod can't be more powerful than this! Lol



Yes, it's a studio amp. Like I said, it'll be interesting to read your findings. When the amazon page JUST quotes a mW rating without saying what Ohm load it was measured at, then the rating is pretty meaningless/unhelpful. I based my above comparison on assuming that the 50 mW was rated at the most common (modern) ohm rating, 32 Ohms, but if the amp provides 50 mW for a 300 or 600 Ohm load, then it would be quite powerful indeed.

Still, studio amping and recreational amping requirements are different. You may like it in the meantime, possibly like the DT990s even more straight from the soundcard. Since my best guess is just a guess, I'm more interested in your experience.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





hailin said:


> It is mixed in or the CAL has 10.2 built right into it.


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> *Vader2k,*
> 10.2 is basically what they use in commercial theaters. Not all theaters, but many. If you look at the picture, [...]


 
    
  Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> This case seems to be a bit different, as I'm guessing from the video itself that the helicopter recordings were meant for a 10.2 speaker system-pictured with two height channels, at that-being binaurally mixed for headphone use. [...]


 
   
  Thanks for the feedback all.  I feel like a bit of a doof, though, as I was so caught up in the "omg, helicopters are flying OVER my head" moment, that I completely glossed over the giant 10.2 staring me in the face! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Yeah, definitely not a home setup there.  Kinda neat about the Pro Logic IIz carrying subtle height channels, though.
   
  Also cool to hear about the different content people test their cans with.  Even though it's dated, something I always like to test is the speeder bike chase from Return of the Jedi.


----------



## Evshrug

Grizzly,
Comfort, or at least maximum comfort, is different for everybody. Weight, clamping pressure, earpad material and shape, headband design... hard to guess what'll be MOST comfortable for you. I can only make a suggestion from my experience, but you may still prefer something else.

I like the comfort of my AKGs a lot – the clamp is just right, not too heavy, the earpads don't touch my ears at all which feels great, but the headband bumps irritate me if I wear them for over 30 minutes or frequently, so I wrapped it with a plush baby's seatbelt cover. As far as sound goes, the do reach "god mode!" Wile in FPS gaming, though the sound has much more body and depth when powered to full potential. In general, if you want competitive FPS gaming, you want a (comfortable) headphone that offers a lot of detail, a balanced frequency response (or even bass-shy to concentrate on tactical sounds like footsteps, reloads, grenade "TINK!"s, wizzing bullets, etc), good separation (so different sounds don't blend together), a wide and deep soundstage (IMO the more evenly "round" the soundstage, the better/more natural), and responds well to virtual surround processing (a given if the headphone has all the above).

Some soundcards provide "enough" power with their built-in amps, like the one in Asus' Xonar essence STX soundcard, and perhaps in Creative's new Z-series soundcards. Optionally, you could separately buy a desktop amp like the FiiO E90k, Schiit Magni, and others (I have a very powerful portable FiiO E12 I'm testing now, but I've also loved the results from my Tube hybrid amp). The world of amping is a whole engineering science of it's own, but mainly if you can find an amp that supplies a lot of current (like the ones I mentioned above), then you should be golden with just about any headphone. An amp, ideally, has a very high signal to noise ratio (S:N or SNR) and adds negligible "color" to the sound, you want to have a headphone that "sounds right" and just have an amp for power. A "colorless" amp is also more versatile if you decide to use other headphones someday.

Lastly, we'll talk about source by jumping back to soundcards (hope I'm not confusing you, I'm basically tracing back the components of a music system starting from the headphones). A soundcard is mainly in charge of Digital file into Analogue sound signal Conversion (DAC), as well as adding processing such as surround processing. The two major soundcard manufacturers right now are Asus (with it's Xonar line that uses Dolby Headphone for surround) and Creative (which currently offer CMSS-3D, THX TruStudio Pro, and SBX Pro Studio for surround). I describe the differences between surround processing and give some samples in my article here. For your budget, you can pick up some great headphones and a nice soundcard that you probably won't need to upgrade in the foreseeable future. The more I read, the more I'm partial to Creative's offerings for gaming, but some people simply love Dolby Headphone.

In summary, I would personally spend your budget on a pair of AKG Q701 and a Creative Sound Blaster Z, and buy a wrap for my headband, but your mileage may vary, so read the reviews in the first post of this thread, pick a good competitive one, and don't skimp out on a quality sound card. GL HF!


----------



## Evshrug

vader2k said:


> Thanks for the feedback all.  I feel like a bit of a doof, though, as I was so caught up in the "omg, helicopters are flying OVER my head" moment, that I completely glossed over the giant 10.2 staring me in the face!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Now I gotta go watch some Star Wars, thanks! And I'm not even being all that sarcastic, lol!


----------



## Vader2k

Nothing wrong with that!


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What's that?
> 
> You say the X1 has wider soundstage and better separation than PC360?


 
   
  Me gusta indeed! The seperation is the most noticeable difference in my opinion, it is literally night and day between the two. The soundstage difference is more subtle but I'm confident that the X1's are bigger.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Very interesting comparison and overall impression of the X1, I look forward to your follow up post(s) about it... I really wish Philips would stop teasing us and release the damn things here already, sigh. I really want to try them out as a complement to my DT 880! (possibly for living room duty, primarily anyway)
> 
> I was thinking of getting a Magni along with them if I didn't enjoy the X1's sound out of my AVR's headphone out, but I've come to realize the RCA pre outs on the AVR won't work for any of the connected HDMI devices... I guess worst case scenario I just run the Magni off the headphone out or directly off my DVR's RCA out.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah I had read something similar about the RCA outputs for recievers not supporting output from a digital input before but didn't do any further reading on it as it would be kinda ridiculous for me to get another reciever and only use one HDMI input on it, it woulda been nice to be able to use the HDMI out from my graphics card into some super simplified reciever that supported RCA output and could provide virtual surround - guess I'm dreaming for now though eh.
   
  As for the cable: I'm yet to swap them because I can't really find anything suitable to replace it with! The jack on the actual headphones is positioned directly next to the earpad meaning that the housing around the jack has to be extremely minimalistic. I'm yet to find a decent length 1/8" terminated cable that doesn't feature some huge housing, I guess it's supposed to be a sign of a high build quality or better sound (don't want to get into a 'cable magic' argument though) but it's rather inconvenient - I've seen images of one guy taking a knife to the housing but I don't think I really fancy that...
   
  And as for the connector size aspect - this is the only other thing that has me worried. The Mixamp has an 1/8" output but the cable on the X1's is a 1/4" termination though it comes with an adaptor, the disadvantage of the cable/adapter combo being that way round though is that the actual start of the cable is around 3" from the output on the Mixamp. I don't really like the idea of something falling on it or someone walking into it and damaging the output on the Mixamp but I suppose this depends on the size of the jack on your amp of choice.
   
   
  On a final note: I've put the amp on hold for a while - the reason being that there is a possibility of a new model being released shortly to replace the amp I'm looking at but mainly it's because I'm now skint having bought a Creative Titanium HD to serve as a DAC and surround processor. I'll stick up my thoughts on DH vs MyEars vs CMSS-3D vs THX/SBX when it arrives but will be using the X1 for my testing this time around.


----------



## Impulse

Sounds like you'd just need to find a standard 1/8" straight cable with slim ends, that way you don't need to use any adapters... I'd sill have to use an adapter on the AVR or Magni end tho I guess that's not a big deal. The Monoprice mobile cable might be an option, not their best shielded or thickest cable so I guess it'd depend on the length you need.


----------



## Evshrug

Simplified receiver? At that point, it seems like you're just talking about a DAC with surround processing, RCA outputs and a video pass-through. Easier just to have a good headphone amp built into the receiver so you can have it all-in-one. However, using the Creative soundcard, with RCA line-out to a dedicated amp, is basically what you described (as long as the processing still occurs).

The other thing is that the Ti HD basically uses THX surround outside the gaming mode, that might make a difference compared to integrating it more fully, BUT you'll probably have a good time anyway with CMSS-3D like nameless does.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Apparently, the HD800 has better depth than the Annies (maybe depth as well). The only think lacking is in height, which is something the Annies also lack (I've noticed this personally). This just makes me want to audition them for gaming even more. I imagine they would be ideal for 7.1. Binaural gaming not so much, depending in the enemies are coming from above. For that you're probably better off with a more uniform representation of sound provided by the significantly more expensive SR-009.
   
  For what it's worth, I just bout a Sony GDM-FW900 CRT off Accurateit.com for 399.99. They actually increased the price once they sold a few units the bastards. Anyway, hopefully it will be worth it. Now I actually have to buy a new desk/stand for this thing. Weighing 42 kg (92.6 lbs) there is no whey it will rest on my feeble desk. 
   
  I was actually thinking of the omnimount echo 50 for ~$110 on amazon.com.


----------



## Hailin

YAY new toy. I have only had a moment to hook it up to my work computer. The variable gain on it is pretty crazy. This was of course with my KSC75 which was fun but a bit much for that little headphone. Can't complain with all those inputs and power for 300 bucks. It has 300mw X2 @ 600 ohms. Not to sure what they mean by X2. Wondering if anyone else knows?
  Now I can't wait for my 600ohms and my Mad Dogs to arrive.


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe 300mW per channel (L/R)? To put out that much power at *600 Ohms* is pretty sexy. Funny all you have to test it with at the moment though are the brave little Koss clip-ons


----------



## Evshrug

roger de ceiba said:


> Apparently, the HD800 has better depth than the Annies (maybe depth as well). The only think lacking is in height, which is something the Annies also lack (I've noticed this personally). This just makes me want to audition them for gaming even more. I imagine they would be ideal for 7.1. Binaural gaming not so much, depending in the enemies are coming from above. For that you're probably better off with a more uniform representation of sound provided by the significantly more expensive SR-009.
> 
> For what it's worth, I just bout a Sony GDM-FW900 CRT off Accurateit.com for 399.99. They actually increased the price once they sold a few units the bastards. Anyway, hopefully it will be worth it. Now I actually have to buy a new desk/stand for this thing. Weighing 42 kg (92.6 lbs) there is no whey it will rest on my feeble desk.
> 
> I was actually thinking of the omnimount echo 50 for ~$110 on amazon.com.



Are you using CMSS-3D, THX, or SBX to test height? Or a binaural sample where someone is specifically recording variable elevation? I forget what you use, but Dolby Headphone or any console surround doesn't create height cues. Many binaural recordings don't have instruments placed above or below the microphone dummy, so... I'm not sayin anything, just sayin!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Maybe 300mW per channel (L/R)? To put out that much power at *600 Ohms* is pretty sexy. Funny all you have to test it with at the moment though are the brave little Koss clip-ons


 

 Yah it does 1000mw x 2 at 32ohms I am wondering if the designer had Orthos in mind when he put that much power in. Which is ton to throw at the little Koss that could. Really handled it beautifully. I really want to try the tube preamp to my E09 for fun. Tonight thought it will be the Cals which again is quite a bit of power for those headphones. So I will be probably at a volume of 2 again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats a ton of power for 600ohm cans. Looks good. The Compass 2 is 200mw at 600, so youre good to go. Looks like it caters towards voltage, as current is good but not amazing. In contrast, the Compass 2 does around 3watts at 32ohm. Still 1 watt at 32ohm is plenty, except maybe for the harder to drive planar magnetics. The HE400 would be fine off it.

As for the x2, I think its unnecessary as power specs are usually per channel anyways.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I haven't really tested, I'm just going based off headphone capabilities.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X1 vs DT990



> Not feeling that spike at 9khz. I was hoping it'd be a smoother alternative to the DT990...
> 
> 
> 
> More sub bass which is awesome, and less mid bass bloat, but that treble... looks like a harsh/sibilant prone headphone.




I'm sure I'd like it, but I was hoping for a bit more smoothness in the top end.


----------



## Evshrug

Hopefully it will surprise?


----------



## Impulse

Having seen that, I might end up setting my sights on the HE-400 instead as a future upgrade/addition... Still not a fan of the double entry cable and the connectors they use tho.
   
  I'm just surprised that there's like only one poster that found the X1 bright or sibilant in the X1 thread, maybe there's just something off w/that site's measurements? /shrug Doesn't line up w/the way Philips have tuned most of their recent headphones either...


----------



## grizly

Evshrug,
   
  First of all, thank you very much for your reply.
   
  I just wanted to ask if it's necessary to buy a sound card, even though I just recently built my PC and therefore I have a very strong motherboard (P8Z77-V deluxe). I don't have a sound card separately. Do you think my motherboard alone won't be enough? 
  Thanks again...


----------



## Impulse

On-board motherboard audio has improved immensely over the last few years, but it still can't hold a candle to a dedicated solution, particularly if you intend to drive demanding headphones and/or you want some surround sound emulation for gaming with headphones. Depending on the headphones you get and/or whether you care for the latter you could get away with something as simple/cheap as a Xonar DG/DGX ($50-ish) or one of Fiio's less expensive USB DACs... Harder to drive headphones are gonna demand a better amp tho.


----------



## Evshrug

Grizzly,
I just built my computer one year ago, almost to the day! I should make a cake for it, and eat it.

The motherboard should produce decent stereo sound, but you need something else if you want surround during gaming. Well... There is the MyEars software, but you'll drop a few frames per second performance and I have yet to actually hear anyone that's pleased by the experience. Think of a sound card like a graphics card... Sure, you can use the onboard "solution," but a discrete card will perform better. You get a higher signal-to-noise ratio that translates to clearer sound, better amping and (or) better connection options, and dedicated audio processing that includes headphone surround among other features. You CAN find them cheaply priced, still an improvement over motherboard audio.

I'd just like to add that FiiO's DACs are good stereo devices, but they don't add surround for gaming.


----------



## Vader2k

Joy.  It would seem I have channel imbalance on my mixamp, where the whole imaging of the soundscape leans to the left.  It becomes less apparent at around 12 o'clock, though its still there.  I searched back through the thread and found other people who have encountered this too.  Unfortunate that it seems to be somewhat commonplace.
   
  Although I know my magni had channel imbalance of its own (as I heard it using my ipod as a source too), I'm worried the replacement, assuming it functions properly, will definitely reveal the mixamp's imbalance and possibly even make it more apparent.  I'm going to contact Astro to see what it would cost to repair, out of curiosity.


----------



## grizly

Thank you Impulse and thank you again Evshrug.
   
  Seems like I'm gonna buy a sound card


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Joy.  It would seem I have channel imbalance on my mixamp, where the whole imaging of the soundscape leans to the left.  It becomes less apparent at around 12 o'clock, though its still there.  I searched back through the thread and found other people who have encountered this too.  Unfortunate that it seems to be somewhat commonplace.
> 
> Although I know my magni had channel imbalance of its own (as I heard it using my ipod as a source too), I'm worried the replacement, assuming it functions properly, will definitely reveal the mixamp's imbalance and possibly even make it more apparent.  I'm going to contact Astro to see what it would cost to repair, out of curiosity.


 
  yes sir, i knew there were others that would run into this. I am on my second 2013 mixamp pro, and this one is better, but not perfect. Try messing around with the main volume knob, I found that if you turn it up past your listening volume and turn it down VERY slowly, the imbalance evens out. Fiddle around with it before contacting astro, as they tend to be a hassle to deal with.


----------



## Vader2k

Thanks tmaxx.  I did already submit a ticket to Astro, though, so we'll see what they say.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You could in the mean time, max out the volume, and control it with the game/voice knob.

Guys, who currently has my HE-400? Lol. Impressions, fools!


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You could in the mean time, max out the volume, and control it with the game/voice knob.


 
   
  Right, I think I saw that suggestion too (possibly from you) when leafing through the old posts.
   
  At least I have some temporary fixes to hold me over; thanks guys!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> You could in the mean time, max out the volume, and control it with the game/voice knob.
> 
> Guys, who currently has my HE-400? Lol. Impressions, fools!




Lol... I think Chico has it now? And he's possibly too busy experiencing the rapture to comment just yet  Could also be that the headphone is in-transit, as I know Chico posts about new arrivals (Still awaiting the _full_ review on the best $0-$2 headphone evar!)


----------



## OnePunchMan

Hey all, I'm brand spankin new to the site and to the word of audiophile's in general. I found this thread by accident after looking through some reviews for the a50's. I really liked MLE's review style and so I came here and man I'm glad I did. Going through the list really helped me narrow down what I'm looking for in a gaming headset and now I just need some help from MLE and the community as a whole.
   
  So my birthday is at the end of March and I figure once that time rolls around I'll get myself a treat. Would get it no but I'm already dropping a decent amount of dough on my girlfriend for Valentines Day, so yeah, gonna wait til mah birfday. Anyway my whole reason for buying a headset is to sound whore the everloving crap out of people when I play Call of Duty. that's it; being pretty honest with you guys. Now I know headsets dont equate to actual skill, but it's Call of Dooty amirite? I'm decent enough to average around 20-30 kills a game with about 10-15 deaths trailing behind the kills. SO I want a headset that's gonna really help me step my game up, I have some TB x42's right now and they are decent for a wireless headset, but they just lack the directional accuracy that I was expecting for my first steps in the gaming headset world. So what I want to do is buy one that's worthwhile and just give my x42's to my little brother( thank the lawd the x42's were a Christmas gift) The most I think  I want to spend is around $300 including whatever amp you all think will give me the most bang for my buck. the price range is subject to change on the grounds that if I'm really getting what I am paying for, I'm willing to shell out a little more. I was looking at the AD700's, the K701's and the Q701's, and the HD598's along with the PC360's. I like the AKG K702's but 400 bones may be stretching it a bit. Anyway what I would like is you guy's opinions on which is a good starter for me based on price and sound whoreability. I also want to know what would be a good amp to start with at a fair enough price that wont leave my bank account and I in tears. I like bass and all but I'm willing to sacrifice if I can really get what I want. Maybe you guys can help me out, maybe You'll recommend a completely new headset that isnt one i listed above. I'd like to say thanks in advance and that I'll be stalking this thread frequently.


----------



## raband

onepunchman said:


> Hey all,


 
   
  Heya - snipped a bit of the post 
   
  1st question to you would be PC or console?
   
  Main thing is the sound hardware - after that then you're probably 90% done.. A $30 set of Samson SR850's with the right mixer or soundcard will do you a hell of a lot better than a $800 set of headphones with stereo sound.
   
  For pure soundwhoring the AD700's are pretty much the king (because of how they're lacking in other areas - no pesky bass to drown out where the clicky-clacky footsteps, crunches of gravel underfoot, ting of a grenade pin being pulled, shhht of a sub-machine gun getting reloaded etc are coming from)
   
  However, if when a bomb goes off behind you you want to actually "feel" it (or hear it) then the AD's won't convey that at all. Sort of like playing by braille, but with you ears. You'll know where everything is but there's no colour, just the pointy indications.
   
  Call that MLE's 10 for competitive 
   
  Going down? from there you can work out the competitive/fun ratio you want - more colour comes with more distraction. Some of that is from more bass, some from a smaller or narrower or shallower soundstage (the virtual sound sphere the headphones project)
   
  OK - hardware now. Firstly (and most importantly) you need a mixer. This converts game sound into a full surround experience in the stereo headphones. If you're on a console then the mixamp, dss, recon 3d etc on the first page of this thread are what you're after. (mix amp is a mixer, not an amp). If you're on PC then you need to look at Nameless's thread for a soundcard (starting at around $30).
   
  The mixer/soundcard are what does 90% of the work and once you have that sorted it then comes down to what you want to hear with respect to position, clarity, accuracy, distance etc.
  The mixer/soundcard should also look after the voice/mic side of things
  You might get a 25/9 kill/death with AD700's vs a 23/11 if you went with the AKG's but what you hear out of the AKG's would probably be far more pleasant to the ears - that's where it's up to you 
   
  Now - amps, dacs and all that - not needed at all if you choose the mixer and it works fine with your headphones you choose. The AD's, HD598's, PC360's are all easy to drive headphones (meaning they don't need anything else to sound their best. The AKG's you mentioned improve more with more power (from an extra amp). Don't fret - there is a world full of headphones that don't need an amp, just make sure you find out where yours fall before you buy.
   
  Personally, with what you typed initially (soundwhore extrordinaire) I'd suggest the mixamp and AD700's and you'll be pwning (am tipping you're on console). With that setup you could look for a second set of headphones for when you're not roflstomping noobs and want more colour in your audio.


----------



## burritoboy9984

onepunchman said:


> Hey all, I'm brand spankin new to the site and to the word of audiophile's in general. I found this thread by accident after looking through some reviews for the a50's. I really liked MLE's review style and so I came here and man I'm glad I did. Going through the list really helped me narrow down what I'm looking for in a gaming headset and now I just need some help from MLE and the community as a whole.
> 
> So my birthday is at the end of March and I figure once that time rolls around I'll get myself a treat. Would get it no but I'm already dropping a decent amount of dough on my girlfriend for Valentines Day, so yeah, gonna wait til mah birfday. Anyway my whole reason for buying a headset is to sound whore the everloving crap out of people when I play Call of Duty. that's it; being pretty honest with you guys. Now I know headsets dont equate to actual skill, but it's Call of Dooty amirite? I'm decent enough to average around 20-30 kills a game with about 10-15 deaths trailing behind the kills. SO I want a headset that's gonna really help me step my game up, I have some TB x42's right now and they are decent for a wireless headset, but they just lack the directional accuracy that I was expecting for my first steps in the gaming headset world. So what I want to do is buy one that's worthwhile and just give my x42's to my little brother( thank the lawd the x42's were a Christmas gift) The most I think  I want to spend is around $300 including whatever amp you all think will give me the most bang for my buck. the price range is subject to change on the grounds that if I'm really getting what I am paying for, I'm willing to shell out a little more. I was looking at the AD700's, the K701's and the Q701's, and the HD598's along with the PC360's. I like the AKG K702's but 400 bones may be stretching it a bit. Anyway what I would like is you guy's opinions on which is a good starter for me based on price and sound whoreability.
> I also want to know what would be a good amp to start with at a fair enough price that wont leave my bank account and I in tears.
> I like bass and all but I'm willing to sacrifice if I can really get what I want. Maybe you guys can help me out, maybe You'll recommend a completely new headset that isnt one i listed above. I'd like to say thanks in advance and that I'll be stalking this thread frequently.




In regards to the AD700, some people hate their comfort, others love them. But for soundwhoring and nothing else, you can't beat them. I also have a pair of PC360's, but they get hardly any use compared to my AD700's. They are VERY close in terms of directionality, with the slight edge going to the AD700's. But you can't beat the comfort and the fact that the PC360's have a built in mic. I would suggest you get a ~$100 2011 Mixamp (flat volume knobs without the eq button the new one has), and then ~$120 AD700+modmic or ~$150 PC360. Either way you should come in under budget and it will blow away your current setup.

-Erik


----------



## OnePunchMan

Yeah I totally forgot to mention that I am console, but I do appreciate the help so far guys! I totally encourage more opinions, but so far the AD700s are winning. Also for the 2011 mixamp, where can I find one for purchase? And also should I go wireless or wired?


----------



## pric0

Quote: 





raband said:


>


 
  i already ordered SR850, and ill soon buy creative SB Titanium 7.1 to go with it..
  AD700 is still an option for me, but there will be no reason for me to waste money on it if the SR850 will do the trick for my competitive fps needs.
  if it wont, ill buy the AD700. which are sold here (israel) for 160$ 
   
  i always thought that all those gamer brand headphones are ****, now i realize on this forum it's true.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I guess I should also look for something with really good "front to back" distinction as well. I thought the x42s had it and have been disappointed by the fact they don't.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I guess I should also look for something with really good "front to back" distinction as well. I thought the x42s had it and have been disappointed by the fact they don't.


----------



## Evshrug

OnePunchMan,
The AD700's respond very, very well to surround emulation. The soundstage is evenly round, even without requiring special amping. For soundwhoring, you'll be blown away compared to the x42s, those headphones simply suffer from too many sound quality compromises for the price, especially in the name of wireless.

I have my AD700 alongside my Q701s that were supposed to replace them, and they do for the most part, BUT I haven't been able to let go of them. I have been saying for years (got mine in '09) that you can't gain more competitive advantage over the AD700 by spending more money (though you can buy more musical cans). Detail? Check. Layering and separation of sounds? Check. Not-in-your-face-fatiguing-but-still-tight-and-detailed Bass, light clamping pressure, and light weight, all for extended gaming marathon comfort? Checkcheckcheck. The bass won't impress car buffs or blow the clothes off of a woman (you saw "The Italian Job," right?), but like I hinted above, too much bass distracts you from details (which are tactical advantages in CoD, especially the old MWs) and tire out your ears faster. I like that the AD700 is easy enough to drive straight from a Mixamp, Recon3D USB, or turtle beach DSS without adding an extra amp.

Cons? The earcups ought to be attached by a Y-shaped yolk, so that they could lay flat against any sized head. Putting a rubber band between the two headrest "wings" and bending the headband bars a bit helps that. Also, while I liked listening to the very clean sound of the AD700 for music (detail and soundstage are their own brand of fun), there are cheaper headphones with heavier bass body that make you/me want to dance. They respond well to EQ, so that helps a bit. Sometimes I'm actually very pleased by the bass presentation of the AD700, like the texture of the midbass in Muse's "Undisclosed Desires" and the anomalies in Metro 2033 FWMmmmmmmzT!-ing past.
[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXcieJmC-FY[/VIDEO]
Edit: aw, YouTube blows compared to what I heard InGame AD700+Recon3D with a mild bass boost.


In summary, the AD700 is not the most satisfying as an all 'rounder, if you want warmer bass or a closed headphone, look elsewhere, but you can't beat it for competitive gaming edge.


----------



## OnePunchMan

Man, I'm really digging the AD700's a lot more and more with each new post. Unless someone has another suggestion I think I'm sold. Also in case anyone missed it, where can I get  my paws on a 2011 Mixamp?


----------



## Evshrug

Ps I use the bass boost on my Recon3D USB.

OnePunch, eBay is your best chance. If you like Dolby Headphone and chat mixing, the older Mixamp is your best shot. Minus the chat mixing, you can save a lot of money buying a Turtle Beach DSS. For something in-between that uses THX TruStudio Pro instead of Dolby and can also double as a USB soundcard for a PC, another solid option is Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB, which NamelessPFG is trying to sell for $70. You can't mix chat using a DSS or Recon3D, BUT if you're playing CoD and you have a mic directly plugged into your Xbox controller, if you want chat audio louder you can turn UP the volume on your surround processor and DOWN the game volume by hitting start during a match and going to Options.

I probably should sell my AD700 cuz money is tight and I have the Q701, but...


----------



## burritoboy9984

As said above, if you want chat mix, which for me is a must have, get a mixamp. I personally play in a room just for my computer and video game stuff, so I didn't need wireless, but if you want wireless, it is an option. Below are the 4 different mixamps Astro has made to date.
   
   
  First gen wired. Good, low noise, but no PS3 chat mixing.

   
  Second gen (2011) wired. Good, least noise, and most likely the best bet for wired until the newest generation gets its bugs wired out.

   
  Current gen (2013). Many users have had issues with hiss. Although it does have custom eq, which can be nice.
   

   
  Mixamp 5.8. Wireless, has some hiss, nothing too detrimental however.
   

   
   
  -Erik


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

For chat mix alone, there is also the steelseries mixer. It's $40 on their site.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Guys, who currently has my HE-400? Lol. Impressions, fools!


 
   
USPS has it. If they do their job, chicolom will.
   
  I'll admit, the craziness at work and general transportation issues I've had on my off days set the ship date back a week longer than I intended, but it's finally moving along.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> OnePunch, eBay is your best chance. If you like Dolby Headphone and chat mixing, the older Mixamp is your best shot. Minus the chat mixing, you can save a lot of money buying a Turtle Beach DSS. For something in-between that uses THX TruStudio Pro instead of Dolby and can also double as a USB soundcard for a PC, another solid option is Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB, which NamelessPFG is trying to sell for $70. You can't mix chat using a DSS or Recon3D, BUT if you're playing CoD and you have a mic directly plugged into your Xbox controller, if you want chat audio louder you can turn UP the volume on your surround processor and DOWN the game volume by hitting start during a match and going to Options.
> 
> I probably should sell my AD700 cuz money is tight and I have the Q701, but...


 
   
  Except you CAN mix in voice chat using a Recon3D USB with both the X360 and PS3. There's an extension cord with an additional port that connects to an X360 pad's headset port, and the microUSB port that powers the whole thing also handles PS3 voice chat. The Ear Force DSS bafflingly offers neither option, to my knowledge.
   
  The catch is that you can't adjust the game/voice volume ratio from the device itself like you could with a Mixamp, which is a strange oversight given that they've come this far already.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Second gen (2011) wired. Good, least noise, and most likely the best bet for wired until the newest generation gets its bugs wired out.


 
   
  Wait, that's the 2011 mixamp?  That's what mine looks like, but I got it in Mar 2010.  And my optical has a flap door instead of the plug, which is a feature of the 2009 version.  Do I have some transitional model between the two?


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Except you CAN mix in voice chat using a Recon3D USB with both the X360 and PS3. There's an extension cord with an additional port that connects to an X360 pad's headset port, and the microUSB port that powers the whole thing also handles PS3 voice chat. The Ear Force DSS bafflingly offers neither option, to my knowledge.
> 
> The catch is that you can't adjust the game/voice volume ratio from the device itself like you could with a Mixamp, which is a strange oversight given that they've come this far already.




Well, yeah, and it includes the cables to do it too. It _mixes_ the chat audio into the headphone port, separating out the mic-input so you can just plug-in any old 3.5mm microphone, however it doesn't offer the ability to "mix" the balance of game/chat volume. Overall though, "mixing" the volume balance is a moot point with CoD, because the game itself lets you do that. I personally wouldn't spend an extra $30-*$50* just to change game/chat balance in the one game that doesn't offer software control, especially since no device levels out the volume of whisperers and shouters  Connected to PC though, you *do* have that mixing control, plus the Recon3D has 3 gain settings for the mic to adjust how loud YOU are to others, in addition to adjusting Windows' mic sensitivity.


----------



## burritoboy9984

vader2k said:


> Wait, that's the 2011 mixamp?  That's what mine looks like, but I got it in Mar 2010.  And my optical has a flap door instead of the plug, which is a feature of the 2009 version.  Do I have some transitional model between the two?




I think everyone just refers to it as the 2011 model. It has the optical input on the back with the flap. The 2013 is the only one which doesn't use the standard toslink and uses the mini toslink 3.5mm plug.

-Erik


----------



## raisedbywolves

hey everyone. so, i'm looking into buying some headphones and a mixamp for a mix of gaming and movie/tv watching.
  i'll probably use them about 65% gaming/35% movie/tv watching. i play fps games, but not competitively, but i would like to be able to play better with the help of positional cues and such. i mostly play more atmospheric games to be honest. also, i don't want to have to buy an amp, so i'm looking to buy a pair of earphones that are easily driven just with the mixamp. i'm already 99% percent decided on buying the mixamp 5.8, since i'd rather not be wired up. the headphones i'm interested in are the dt 990, the ad700, and possibly the pc360's.
   
  my questions:
  - if i were to get the dt 990 pro's, which ohm version would be the best to use without an amp?
  - i've read a lot about the ad700's being big/uncomfortable. i don't have a very large head, and pretty small ears, so would this be a concern? any way to remedy the comfort issues?
  - are the pc360's way too bass light to use for non-competitive gaming/movies?
   
  thanks for your help, guys.


----------



## Impulse

I'd pass on the AD700 if you're looking to be immersed into single player games or movies... They're the lightest on bass of the three, by far. DT 990's a good choice but it's gonna require an amp regardless of which one you get. I think it's worth considering the HD 558 + a Modmic, cheaper than the PC360 and they're a little more fun judging by most accounts.


----------



## ruuku

vader2k said:


> Wait, that's the 2011 mixamp?  That's what mine looks like, but I got it in Mar 2010.  And my optical has a flap door instead of the plug, which is a feature of the 2009 version.  Do I have some transitional model between the two?




I wouldn't be too surprised if they used the "door" model toslink input in the early production of the 2011 mixamp and went to the "door-less" when those were used up. Cost-wise the "door-less" should be cheaper to manufacture/purchase which would explain the change. Also keep in mind that the 2013 mixamp actually came out in late 2012, so model changes/years are not set in stone. 
 (2011 mixamp back [with the door-less toslink]

Impulse: were you still planning on doing a review/frequency graph on the various mics? If so let me know... I'll gladly donate my labtec for the cause.


----------



## Evshrug

raisedbywolves,
If you go back just oooooooone page, I won't have to repeat myself breaking down the use of the AD700, pros and cons.

I wish someone would test an AKG 240 studio, with the AKG house sound, large circumaural pads (and no headband bumps), and extra bass, I have a feeling they could be a budget contender. But....... I haven't read any reviews on them except on Amazon and Headroom.

I would also suggest, overall, getting the lower-cost, non-headset version of the Sennheiser PC360, since you don't game competitively. You can just plug in a mic if you want to chat, a 2.5mm wired phone headset or cheap $2 lapel mic with a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter will do just fine. I was actually complimented on the quality of my lapel mic tonight.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Need to clarify that the PC360 is basically a 595 with a mic, not an 598. The 598 is better in regards to clarity, but more mid focused. The PC360 is very balanced, though not as detailed.


----------



## Impulse

ruuku said:


> Impulse: were you still planning on doing a review/frequency graph on the various mics? If so let me know... I'll gladly donate my labtec for the cause.




Yeah I intend to, though my Modmic is an original v1 so I'm not sure how relevant it'd be for others... But I do wanna get one of the new ones once they've got the muting option. I imagine the comparison vs the Zalman (or Labtec) should be of interest to others who may have it already.


----------



## Evshrug

Impulse, if you get a new Modmic, I might buy your v1 if you're interested.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> I wouldn't be too surprised if they used the "door" model toslink input in the early production of the 2011 mixamp and went to the "door-less" when those were used up. Cost-wise the "door-less" should be cheaper to manufacture/purchase which would explain the change. *Also keep in mind that the 2013 mixamp actually came out in late 2012, so model changes/years are not set in stone.*
> (2011 mixamp back [with the door-less toslink]


 
   
  Yeah, I suppose that makes sense, similar to how next years model of cars comes out in the preceding year.
   
  Neat to know I have a 2011 then, despite still having the channel imbalance.  Astro says it'll be approximately $50 to fix + cost to ship to them.  I'm probably going to pay, though I want to try a different optical cable first to make sure that's not the problem.  Can optical cables even partially fail, or is it a case of they either work or they don't; no in-between?


----------



## burritoboy9984

vader2k said:


> Yeah, I suppose that makes sense, similar to how next years model of cars comes out in the preceding year.
> 
> Neat to know I have a 2011 then, despite still having the channel imbalance.  Astro says it'll be approximately $50 to fix + cost to ship to them.  I'm probably going to pay, though I want to try a different optical cable first to make sure that's not the problem.  Can optical cables even partially fail, or is it a case of they either work or they don't; no in-between?




Optical cables send a digital signal, in this case it isn't L and R, it is Dolby Digital, so your answer is no.

-Erik


----------



## Vader2k

Bummer.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Still, I know I've accidentally stepped on the optical once or twice in the past (since it runs along the floor to the couch), so for peace of mind, I plan to try a different optical connection.  I might even bypass my receiver altogether and just go straight from the console to the mixamp to see if there's any difference.  Don't wanna spend the money to repair it unless I absolutely have to!
   
  EDIT: Has anyone ever used the coaxial on the mixamp?  Is it comparable to optical?  I read something once that said sending a digital signal over analog can slightly compromise it.  Coaxial's RCA connection sure is more stable than the optical, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They should sound the same. Digital coaxial connections tend to have less jitter than optical cables and is the preferred method, however, that is assuming the source is a digital coaxial source. Using an optical to digital coaxial converter gains zero benefit and may add jitter, so it's best to use optical in that situation. I use the digital coaxial input as my secondary input if I have more than one optical source (I.e. ps3 and 360).

Digital coaxial is just that, digital, so no degradation of quality unlike analog.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Impulse, if you get a new Modmic, I might buy your v1 if you're interested.




Yeah man, sure thing, I wouldn't have any use for two, I'll sell it to ya cheap.

I'm really just waiting on the mute versions to pick either a v2 or v3... I never had much issue with background noise on my v1 but my mechanical keyboard does come thru sometimes (more so when Skype'ing while working than gaming).

Think they posted towards the end of last month that v3 and mute versions were coming along. I might ask for a discount or something to try both (v2/v3), someone asked about a discount for existing users at one point and I think I remember them replying that it could be worked out.


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks impulse! I honestly never mute myself... does that mean anything? LoL!

Mad,
I saw this interesting tidbit after comparing the graphs of my headphones, and I feel I must share:


----------



## OnePunchMan

Hey evershrug, how much would you sell you ad700s for if you were gonna sell them? because I'd be interested in making a purchase.


----------



## Impulse

Heh, I think the mute function's just useful for being able to talk with someone in the same room without having to cup the mic etc. Might as well hold off for it if I'm getting a new one.

That graph's about what I would expect for either of those, though I'm sure the Koss clip on's low end can vary a fair deal depending on how you fit them. Edit: The comparison to the DT 880 or 990's interesting too:


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I wish someone would test an AKG 240 studio, with the AKG house sound, large circumaural pads (and no headband bumps), and extra bass, I have a feeling they could be a budget contender. But....... I haven't read any reviews on them except on Amazon and Headroom.


 
   
  I used to have the AKG K240 Studio - years ago.  I got it as a gift, and it was one of my first hi-fi headphones, even before my AD700. 
   
  I can't remember too much how they sound, but I remember that the soundstage is only medium sized and I think the imaging was OK but not amazing.  Definitely not a "mini-x70x" going off memory.  I seem to remember the bass or mid bass muddying up the imaging and getting in the way.  I remember the signature being slightly dark/warm with perhaps some sizzle in the treble and a hump in the bass.  I know I preferred the soundstage and imaging of the original A40s more.  Still, they were a good sounding headphone.
   
  The comfort on the K240s were a deal breaker for me.  Shallow cups + pleather pads = hot itchy ears 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I assume the Samson SR850 is the same way, which means I would never buy or wear them. 
   
  The K240s were the headphones I traded (literally) for the CALs, and I was very happy when I got the CALs. 
   
   
  Actually, I'm pretty sure my dad has a pair of K240s, I should borrow them and do a mini review/refresh my memory of them some time...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I saw this interesting tidbit after comparing the graphs of my headphones, and I feel I must share:


 
   
  Do you have a Superlux 668B?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> (2011 mixamp back [with the door-less toslink]


 

 Sexy keyboard...


----------



## Impulse

Quack, it's a Ducky! I was very tempted to get one last year, only ended up with a Corsair K90 as my first mechanical because it was nearly 1/2 the price (after a promo discount + rebate) and I really like that volume roller it has (big plus with headphones and no external amp).

Might still get a TKL Ducky sometime and pair it with a Griffin Powermate programmable knob. I just can't come to grips with using Fn + F-key for volume adjustment...


----------



## Johnsonr520

Just wondering, is there any way to get a voice/volume control for xbox to control it externally since my DSS doesnt have it.


----------



## chicolom

FYI, I got MLE's care package today. Hopefully I can audition the contents within this weekend.

Also, MLE - do you want me to mod your parts express head band before I send it off? I grinded down some excess plastic on mine to let the KSC drivers rotate more freely. Best done with a Dremel tool...


----------



## cib24

Psst...Initial X1 vs. AKG Annie impressions below:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/885#post_9142942
  
  Full blown review including the following combinations coming soon:
   
Headphones

 Philips Fidelio X1
 AKG 65th Anniversary K702
 Beyerdynamic DT 880 250 Ohm
   
Sound Cards

 Creative Titanium X-Fi Titanium HD
 ASUS Xonar Essence ST
   
Amps

 ASUS Xonar Essence ST
 Schiit Magni
   
Mediums

 Music  - Rock, Metal, Jazz, Hip Hop, Pop, R&B
 Games - FPS, RTS, Racing, Third Person
 Movies - TBD
 Youtube - General


----------



## Fulch36

Quote: 





cib24 said:


> Psst...Initial X1 vs. AKG Annie impressions below:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/885#post_9142942


 
   
  I've been kinda dreading this comparison but I'm glad someone is comparing the two.
   
  I loved the way you described the X1's presentation, right in front of the band is pretty much spot on - I found it a little odd at first but I do really like it. It's taken a lot of testing but I do agree with you on the mids as well, they are a little bit recessed and it isn't just because of the bass presence - I've sorted things out financially so I'm picking between two amps to try and focus on bringing the mid-range forward a bit. Furthering your comparison to the HD650; I agree that the mids on the X1 are less veiled and mellow than the HD650 and I find that the treble is rolled off to a lesser extent, I'm quite sensitive to treble and find that both the PC360/HD595 and the Q701 (finally got hold of my friend who owns these for a comparison) are too bright for my ears and can actually be very fatiguing to listen to. The bass on the X1's is sensational and after adjusting to it I don't think it's negatively impacting the overall sound in any way though it is certainly the most forward part of the spectrum.
   
  I'm looking forward to your further comparisons as I agree with pretty much everything you've said about the X1's, I'll also be using a Creative Titanium HD as a source but my current thoughts on what amps I want to pair them with may result in our experiences differing a bit.


----------



## cib24

Quote: 





fulch36 said:


> I've been kinda dreading this comparison but I'm glad someone is comparing the two.
> 
> I loved the way you described the X1's presentation, right in front of the band is pretty much spot on - I found it a little odd at first but I do really like it. It's taken a lot of testing but I do agree with you on the mids as well, they are a little bit recessed and it isn't just because of the bass presence - I've sorted things out financially so I'm picking between two amps to try and focus on bringing the mid-range forward a bit. Furthering your comparison to the HD650; I agree that the mids on the X1 are less veiled and mellow than the HD650 and I find that the treble is rolled off to a lesser extent, I'm quite sensitive to treble and find that both the PC360/HD595 and the Q701 (finally got hold of my friend who owns these for a comparison) are too bright for my ears and can actually be very fatiguing to listen to. The bass on the X1's is sensational and after adjusting to it I don't think it's negatively impacting the overall sound in any way though it is certainly the most forward part of the spectrum.
> 
> I'm looking forward to your further comparisons as I agree with pretty much everything you've said about the X1's, I'll also be using a Creative Titanium HD as a source but my current thoughts on what amps I want to pair them with may result in our experiences differing a bit.


 

 I am looking for a new amp too. The Magni just doesn't cut it honestly but it's all I have right now and it's better at powering my headphones than the Essence ST sound card's built-in amp is. I've been looking at the Musical Fidelity M1 HPA but can't seem to find it at a price that I'm willing to pay for it. I've been looking at other options as well but the M1 HPA seems like it would satisfy most of what I'm looking for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> FYI, I got MLE's care package today. Hopefully I can audition the contents within this weekend.
> 
> Also, MLE - do you want me to mod your parts express head band before I send it off? I grinded down some excess plastic on mine to let the KSC drivers rotate more freely. Best done with a Dremel tool...




Do what you think is best.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





betawolf said:


> Ordered my K702's yesterday. Couldn't afford Annies unfortunately, but still worth it over the K/Q701's since I like the aesthetics better on the K702's. Very nice looking cans IMO. Now to start saving up for that ZxR and research amps!


 

 Purely an aesthetics choice? I pity tha fool!


----------



## SoAmusing777

Also, Sleek Audio SA7 is finally out. Best wireless headphones evar? I'd like to know!


----------



## Evshrug

Stranger things have happened. Like, that whole category of "fondling knives."

Those Sleek's may be the best wireless headphones ever... But I wouldn't know. I'm just always wary because the headphones always carry their own amps, DACs, create their own EMI, and usually compress the audio feed to fit the wireless bandwidth. Maybe science and beaucoup bucks have minimized those obstacles.


----------



## ruuku

chicolom said:


> Sexy keyboard...



Lol thx... Was debating getting a steel series, or razer, but the Shine II were just coming out at that point. Got the cherry browns, but am wishing i had bought blues instead. I'm also finding that I don't really need the Led's so maybe skip the Duckys and go with a Filco instead.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Those Sleek's may be the best wireless headphones ever... Maybe science and beaucoup bucks have minimized those obstacles.


 
  I wanna know myself. To narrow it down, I want wireless headphones that fit in the ear. I'll be wearing them when workout out so it can sit around/on my ear. Well, go look at the KLEER wireless technology that they've implemented with them. Also, check out dat construction!


----------



## roguegeek

I currently have the AD700 and am trying to identify which ones to step up to next for competitive gaming. The K701 or Q701 are first on my list, but I'm really interested in what your thoughts are with the K550, which i believe actually replace the K701. More generally, can closed-back headphone deliver the soundstage and depth needed for competitive play?

Thoughts?


----------



## Impulse

I doubt they're trying to replace the Q/K70X with the K550, would be a big mistake for AKG but I guess anything's possible when it comes down from up top at HK.

You can certainly get decent separation and soundstage for gaming from some closed headphones, but I doubt you'll find any that come anywhere near the AD700 in that regard.

Do you intend to upgrade with other uses in mind (music/movies etc) or is this 100% for competitive gaming? If it's the latter I'd just save your money tbh.


----------



## chicolom

K550 doesn't replace the x70x or any other AKG headphone. It's just a new closed model.


----------



## roguegeek

impulse said:


> I doubt they're trying to replace the Q/K70X with the K550, would be a big mistake for AKG but I guess anything's possible when it comes down from up top at HK.
> 
> You can certainly get decent separation and soundstage for gaming from some closed headphones, but I doubt you'll find any that come anywhere near the AD700 in that regard.
> 
> Do you intend to upgrade with other uses in mind (music/movies etc) or is this 100% for competitive gaming? If it's the latter I'd just save your money tbh.




I may be wrong about the K550, but I read it somewhere. It's probably wrong. As for why I'm upgrading, yes, it's almost entirely for competitive gaming. The problem is the AD700 gets so extremely uncomfortable so quickly. I can not play for hours on end with these cans in any way. My thinking is with the upgrade, I want the same exceptional competitive performance, but with a hell of a lot more comfort for my small skull and with a little more focus on the general fun use. That's the reason I'm looking at the K701/Q701.


----------



## Impulse

Gotcha, that's an entirely valid reason to upgrade IMO. I've never worn the AKG x70x long enough to judge their comfort in that way, seems hit or miss across the boards tho. I think the most common issue, the headband, shouldn't be hard to remedy (just wrap it in something else).


----------



## Evshrug

Roguegeek,
You're referring to the AD700 problem where almost all the clamp is focused on the bottom of the earpads? IMO, it is a necessity to bend the headband "bars" so that the earpads are more "upright" and rest flush against the head/ears. Massive improvement, breaking in the earpads and increasing clamp by putting a rubber-band around the headband "wings" does the rest. If you do this right, you probably can mention it in a resale to INCREASE the value of the AD700.

The Q701 addressed most of the minor flaws I had with the AD700, especially bass weight and, in general, musicality. The downside is I feel a higher quality amp is needed to get the soundstage near the depth of the AD700, and now people are telling me I may have to upgrade my DAC too if I feel the sound is harsh. The Q is a great headphone, a better headphone, but it isn't cheap.

I haven't heard the K550, but it is a closed compliment to the K701 variants, which are semi-open (mostly open). Some people love them, and apparently they do have good soundstage _for a closed headphone_, but others mention a metallic tone that is a turn off. Best buys with magnolia sections usually have the K550, I couldn't get em to let me demo them, but you might be able to buy them and return them if you don't like 'em. Too many unknowns for me to make an opinion.


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I currently have the AD700 and am trying to identify which ones to step up to next for competitive gaming. The K701 or Q701 are first on my list, but I'm really interested in what your thoughts are with the K550, which i believe actually replace the K701. More generally, can closed-back headphone deliver the soundstage and depth needed for competitive play?
> 
> Thoughts


 
   
  probably not, i mostly game with the d7000s. not great soundstage, but i not a competitive gamer. so im in it for the fun factor, and immersiveness. which the d7000s deliver. and boy, do they do it.


----------



## roguegeek

evshrug said:


> Roguegeek,
> You're referring to the AD700 problem where almost all the clamp is focused on the bottom of the earpads? IMO, it is a necessity to bend the headband "bars" so that the earpads are more "upright" and rest flush against the head/ears. Massive improvement, breaking in the earpads and increasing clamp by putting a rubber-band around the headband "wings" does the rest. If you do this right, you probably can mention it in a resale to INCREASE the value of the AD700.
> 
> The Q701 addressed most of the minor flaws I had with the AD700, especially bass weight and, in general, musicality. The downside is I feel a higher quality amp is needed to get the soundstage near the depth of the AD700, and now people are telling me I may have to upgrade my DAC too if I feel the sound is harsh. The Q is a great headphone, a better headphone, but it isn't cheap.
> ...




I understand all of the modding I can do with the AD700 to get it to fit right. I'm really just not happy with that path. When there's an overwhelmingly large and widespread issue that's documented such as the fit issue with a particular headphone, that's an issue with a product that should be addressed by the manufacturer and not the user. That's just my opinion. I know not everyone will share it. I think I may be keeping them to toy around with, but I definitely want to move onto something that's just better for me.

With moving onto something like the K701 or Q701, I'm not too concerned about making sure I give it the power it deserves. I have a FiiO E09k being shipped to me as we speak. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it can get the job done.

My more concerning question deals with the closed back design. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this. It sounds like, in general, you don't get as large of a soundstage as you would with something that's open. So in general, a closed-back wont be as good for competitive gaming. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but that's generally the case? I mean other than the pros of less noise leaking in and out of the headphones, I'm not really understanding why closed-back cans are worth buying over open cans.

Sorry if I'm muddying the questions together or are simply asking stupid ones, but I promise you I'm just trying to gain an understanding.


----------



## Hailin

The E09K will get the job done. The AKGs love current but are not that hard to get loud. People have used the E17 with the Q and K and been perfectly happy. E09K is actually a wonderful amp that served me really well for a year. I am thinking of plugging it into my new Dac/Amp cause while the dac portion is awesome I hate the Step Attenuator of the Maverick. I thought I would love it but it just completely irritates me due to it's variable gain.


----------



## Knorz

@cib24
   
  I'm really, really looking forward to your review of the X1's. At the moment I'm having a hard time choosing between these and the Beyer DT 880.
  So far, I could only get my hands on the Beyer and liked them a lot, but the thing is, every single review on the internet or in magazines seems to be absolutely 100% positive for the Philips.
   
  Sooo, I'm not trying to push you, but are we talking days or weeks until you post your full review?


----------



## cib24

Well, in my opinion the X1's are better for gaming due to a larger sound stage and are more cinematic due to the extra bass. But the details in the Beyer are better. Anyway, this review will probably be published by Friday or Saturday since I do have to go to work during the week and I'm still finishing up the break-in on the AKG's since I only began listening to them this past Friday evening. I have been leaving music on a low-medium volume over night though to break them in a bit quicker.
   
  Do you guys think I should start a new dedicated thread to the review or just post the review within this thread and the X1 thread? I'm thinking the length of it might require it's own thread.


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> I understand all of the modding I can do with the AD700 to get it to fit right. I'm really just not happy with that path. When there's an overwhelmingly large and widespread issue that's documented such as the fit issue with a particular headphone, that's an issue with a product that should be addressed by the manufacturer and not the user. That's just my opinion. I know not everyone will share it. I think I may be keeping them to toy around with, but I definitely want to move onto something that's just better for me.
> 
> With moving onto something like the K701 or Q701, I'm not too concerned about making sure I give it the power it deserves. I have a FiiO E09k being shipped to me as we speak. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it can get the job done.
> 
> ...




No need to be sorry 
I agree Audio Technica ought to address the design issue of fit. IMO, it would be fixed if they just allowed the earcups to pivot up and down, even just a little. However, since you already HAVE an AD700, you might as well try to make it fit nice, especially since it's pretty easy?

The K701 headphones & variants are semi-open, mostly open headphones. They are famous for their soundstage. The closed K550 trades some soundstage in order to try and cut some external sound from coming in and music from leaking out. Some closed headphones can resonate and increase bass pressure, which some people really like, though I don't know if the K550 has "more bass" than the Q701. The other factor is some people prefer the styling. Anyway, I'd overall still recommend the open models anyway for competitive gaming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't find the K550 to have any bass worth mentioning. Well, I'm just not a fan of them, at all. But it wasnt in a controlled environment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't find the K550 to have any bass worth mentioning. Well, I'm just not a fan of them, at all. But it wasnt in a controlled environment.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> No need to be sorry
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sounds good. I'll be sticking with them for at least a little while longer with some of the mods explained out there. I think I'll be passing up the K550 altogether and just going with the K702 in time. Have they and the K701 been discontinued or something? I don't see any existence of them on the US AKG site.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Hey, just making sure, I think I may have forgotten. Console game/chat mixing... my options? Steelseries, SLYR mixer, and Mixamp? I can't seem to find the SLYR mixer alone.

 Do wish someone would take my receiver off mah hands! It's actually pretty great! I didn't think to lower DSP setting. That helps with any of the sound that I didn't like. I just need some cashhh.


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> Sounds good. I'll be sticking with them for at least a little while longer with some of the mods explained out there. I think I'll be passing up the K550 altogether and just going with the K702 in time. Have they and the K701 been discontinued or something? I don't see any existence of them on the US AKG site.



I "think" AKG replaced the k701 with the K702, but both are still pretty readily available.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I "think" AKG replaced the k701 with the K702, but both are still pretty readily available.


 
  That's my understanding with their availability as well. So strange that the only thing on the US site is the K702 Anniversary Editions.


----------



## zx6guy

First time poster here.
  
 The mic on my almost 4 year old TB X1 finally died last week so I’m now in the market for a new headset.  I stumbled on this thread by accident and it looks like it’s going to save me from doing something really stupid with my money and improve my game. 
  
 As far as virtual surround sound devices go I’ve narrowed it down to the original DSS and the Mixamp.  I’m sure I’ll end up on the Mixamp because I don’t want to give up chat volume control but nothing is finalized yet.  My questions are assuming I buy a used device and it doesn’t come with cables what lengths do I need (optical and power)?  I play on xbox.  Also, chat control will move from the controller to the mixamp correct?         
  
 As for the headsets I’m pretty sure I’m going with the AD700 but if someone can point out a good reason or price for the PC360 I’d consider it.  The idea of giving up the fixed mic doesn’t sit well but the ModMic looks like it’ll work.  The headset will be used almost exclusively for gaming (fps). 
  
 Thanks in advance guys and thanks to Mad Lust for setting this all up. 
  
 Matt


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I "think" AKG replaced the k701 with the K702, but both are still pretty readily available.


 
   
  I thought the Q701 replaced the K701 as their flagship "home hi-fi" headphone.  AFAIK the K702 was always a separate "studio" model aimed at audio professionals with features like "detachable mini-xlr cable", etc. 
   
  I think they just silently removed the K701 off their websites in favor the of Q701 or K702.  The Q701 can be found on their "personal audio" website, while the K702s are over on their "professional audio" website. I don't see the K701 listed on any of their sites.
   
  The limited edition K702 65th anniversary is exactly what it sounds like.


----------



## jronan2

Just letting anyone interested I've decided to get out of the "competitive" gaming scene, for a bunch of reasons. If anyone is interested I have a pc360 and astro mixamp for sale. No intention on derailing the thread, I'm just letting you guys know if you need a real good set up for a decent price. I didn't know they discontinued the pc360's, they were probably the most desired headset in the mlg community for the last year or two.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Just letting anyone interested I've decided to get out of the "competitive" gaming scene, for a bunch of reasons. If anyone is interested I have a pc360 and astro mixamp for sale. No intention on derailing the thread, I'm just letting you guys know if you need a real good set up for a decent price. I didn't know they discontinued the pc360's, they were probably the most desired headset in the mlg community for the last year or two.


 
   
  Which variant of the Mixamp? There's at least three of them out there right now, as documented earlier in this thread.


----------



## jronan2

I think 2010 wired version, I bought it literally a week after the 5.2 wireless one came out and I didn't want wireless. I used it with the xbox 360 but I'm almost certain you can use it with the ps3 since the provided instructions have ps3 present. Mixamp worked flawlessly for me, a completely reliable product.


----------



## lolwatpear

to any who has bought the cheap DX clip-on mic:  have you had any problems getting it to work on the 360?  I bought a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter so I can plug it into my 360 controller.  What happens in the mic turns on and off continuously and makes this noise (which I hear when I previewed a voice message) everytime it shows the mic symbol.  This is most likely not a defective mic as I bought 2, and both do the same thing.  any ideas?


----------



## ruuku

zx6guy said:


> First time poster here.
> As far as virtual surround sound devices go I’ve narrowed it down to the original DSS and the Mixamp.  I’m sure I’ll end up on the Mixamp because I don’t want to give up chat volume control but nothing is finalized yet.  My questions are assuming I buy a used device and it doesn’t come with cables what lengths do I need (optical and power)?  I play on xbox.  Also, chat control will move from the controller to the mixamp correct?



The cables that you need to set up the mixamp with a xbox are: a mini usb (type b) for power, an optical cable (either TOS or mini depending on which mixamp you buy), 2.5mm male to 2.5mm male cable for chat, and a 4 pole 3.5 mm y-splitter for the headphone/mic input (1 male to 2 female). Of course it would be easiest to just to make sure that the factory cables are included before you purchase. 

Yes, the smaller knob on the mixamp varies the level between game sound and incoming chat volume.


----------



## junrin

I'm not sure this has been posted before cause there's so much to read here

There's been a new version of the ad700, called the ad700x.it might solve the comfort issues the original had, at least the reviews say so.

 I've been searching all over the web for reviews and only found some for the ad900x on this thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998/audio-technica-updates-their-open-headphones-ad-series-ad2000x-ad1000x-ad900x-ad700x-and-ad500x

The reviews thus far are really positive, so im wondering if anyone's gonna get it. Maybe I'll just get one to review here

I also use pc and I'm actually planning on getting a dedicated sound card with it

( btw, I don't have a ad700 to compare so I'm really hoping someone here does for comparison)

I also don't have gaming headphones. Only Sony iems


----------



## zx6guy

How much for the mixamp?


----------



## zx6guy

@ruuku Thanks. 

Do I need a certain length for each?


----------



## jronan2

$90 shipped for the mixamp, view my profile to see the ad if interested


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> to any who has bought the cheap DX clip-on mic:  have you had any problems getting it to work on the 360?  I bought a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter so I can plug it into my 360 controller.  What happens in the mic turns on and off continuously and makes this noise (which I hear when I previewed a voice message) everytime it shows the mic symbol.  This is most likely not a defective mic as I bought 2, and both do the same thing.  any ideas?


 
   
  I had no problem hooking up my DX mic to the bottom of my 360 controller.  however, i did connect it with an adapter that was specially made for the xbox.  I don't have it in front of me, but I believe that adapter plugged into the 2.5 mm jack on the bottom of the controller and separated the mic and headset channel.  Of course, I plugged my mic into the mic port and this is probably where you are running into problems.  It is pictured in the link below: 
   
http://www.waltzmart.com/images/catalog/product/2011/10/30/Headset%20Speaker%20Adapter%20For%20Xbox360%20Wireless%20Controller_2.jpg1
   
  What sort of adapter are you using?


----------



## Evshrug

lolwatpear said:


> to any who has bought the cheap DX clip-on mic:  have you had any problems getting it to work on the 360?  I bought a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter so I can plug it into my 360 controller.  What happens in the mic turns on and off continuously and makes this noise (which I hear when I previewed a voice message) everytime it shows the mic symbol.  This is most likely not a defective mic as I bought 2, and both do the same thing.  any ideas?



I have the same adapter as kellte, in addition to the one that is part of the Recon3D USB kit. I have no problem with using my lapel mics thought that. Most likely, you either have a fault in your adapter or your controller's port itself. Do you have any other mics to test out? I have a chat headset made for the Xbox, and there's a fault with it where if the 2.5mm plug isn't completely still and plugged in at just the right position, my mic input breaks up just like you are describing.
I think most likely you have a bad adapter.


----------



## OnePunchMan

Well if someone doesn't snag that mixamp before me, I'm gonna buy it in the next couple of weeks. And then all I'll have to do is get the AD700's


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Well I finally got to try out the HD800 in the B&H superstore. Obviously I wasn't impressed but I was listening to electronic music unamped. I love how it sits on your head and the build quality seems amazing. I will definitely try these with proper equipment sometime in the future (2 years from now)
   
  I also put the DT880 and DT770 in my head, my god they felt like clouds, speaking purely about comfort. I don't know what they use (velour?) but I would love for more headphone manufacturers to use it. In fact, I think I may be returning my Annies because the clamping finally got to me. Perhaps it is because I've been having some general discomfort with a molar and I should visit the dentist soon anyway but now I find it very uncomfortable. Now that I cut my hair I also find the thin leather strip uncomfortable.
   
  For the time being I'm just going to rock the Sennheiser Momentums that I bought last week until I figure out if what I want to buy for home use. I'm also going to go back to B&H to have some more time with a few of these headphones. If for no other reason just to test how they feel on my head.


----------



## Evshrug

You are SUPER fortunate to be able to audition headphones like that. Man, I'd love to take my iPod & E12 into that store... I would also be highly likely to buy camera gear... Oh man, I could spend a mint @ B&H.


----------



## ruuku

zx6guy said:


> @ruuku Thanks.
> 
> Do I need a certain length for each?


Well... you want to measure out where the mixamp is going to be placed, and the toslink and usb should be a length greater than the distance between the mixamp and your xbox. For the chat cable I would recommend at least 3 meters to give enough slack for movement with the controller.


----------



## lolwatpear

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I have the same adapter as kellte, in addition to the one that is part of the Recon3D USB kit. I have no problem with using my lapel mics thought that. Most likely, you either have a fault in your adapter or your controller's port itself. Do you have any other mics to test out? I have a chat headset made for the Xbox, and there's a fault with it where if the 2.5mm plug isn't completely still and plugged in at just the right position, my mic input breaks up just like you are describing.
> I think most likely you have a bad adapter.


 
  Thanks, yeah I'm thinking it's either the adapter or a faulty controller.  The controller is quite old, so I might try replacing it.
   
  And to Kellte, I bought this:
   
  http://dx.com/p/2-5mm-male-to-3-5mm-female-convertor-2648
   
  It was mentioned in the reviews somewhere that it works with the 360 controller.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





lolwatpear said:


> Thanks, yeah I'm thinking it's either the adapter or a faulty controller.  The controller is quite old, so I might try replacing it.
> 
> And to Kellte, I bought this:
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't see why that adapter would give you problems, if it is properly functioning.  I've received some DOA items from DX in the past so it isn't outside the realm of possibility for you to have received a defective adapter.  I'd contact them through their support page and they will likely offer to: 1) offer account credit; or 2) replace the item for free.
   
  Worst part is the shipping wait.  Good luck.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





junrin said:


> I'm not sure this has been posted before cause there's so much to read here
> 
> There's been a new version of the ad700, called the ad700x.it might solve the comfort issues the original had, at least the reviews say so.
> 
> ...


 
  Please please please someone review these and compare them against the AD700.


----------



## Evshrug

Looks like the only reviews are in that thread. Amazon doesn't even have a review yet. They also cost $199, so... they'd better be an improvement, as the AD700 costs only half as much.


----------



## chicolom

blah


----------



## Evshrug

Good to to hear from ya Chico! I've been waiting for word from you, and "blah" is certainly a word


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Good to to hear from ya Chico! I've been waiting for word from you, and "blah" is certainly a word


 
   
  Lol
   
  I was trying to type a post from my phone, but it was getting too frustrating to do and I just gave up.


----------



## chicolom

_Dumb HE400 question:_
   
  ...I assume the HE400 drivers are symmetrical and you can plug the "L" and "R" cables into either driver without having to match it up with the headphone?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> _Dumb HE400 question:_
> 
> ...I assume the HE400 drivers are symmetrical and you can plug the "L" and "R" cables into either driver without having to match it up with the headphone?


 
   
  Yes, it's completely symmetrical. That's why the headphone itself isn't labeled with any left or right indications. This means that you have to take a good look at the cable connectors to be sure you have them on the right way.
   
  However, I do wish that they at least angled the cable connectors outwards a bit, as they do sometimes hit my shoulders when pointed straight down as they are.


----------



## Impulse

A cable with an adjustable angle at the ends would be even better, like the one on the Senn Momentum. I imagine that would add to the cost tho...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Yes, it's completely symmetrical. That's why the headphone itself isn't labeled with any left or right indications. This means that you have to take a good look at the cable connectors to be sure you have them on the right way.
> 
> However, I do wish that they at least angled the cable connectors outwards a bit, as they do sometimes hit my shoulders when pointed straight down as they are.




Lol, actually, they _were_. The hifiman logos starting wearing off (worst paint to use for text, ever), so I completely buffed out all the white text. 

Still, yes, they are symmetrical, so it doesn't matter which side you plug the cables in. The cables are labeled, so it's no problem.

How goes it, Chico?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, actually, they _were_. The hifiman logos starting wearing off (worst paint to use for text, ever), so I completely buffed out all the white text.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I finally got to spend some time with the HE400s you were kind enough to send out (I was house sitting for someone earlier so I wasn't around my audio equipment to listen).
   
  Anyways, I did about an hour of listening/A-Bing and wrote up a couple paragraphs of notes and impressions.  The notes are all out of order though, I still need to do more listening, and I have to go to bed to get up early tommorow, so I'll have to wai until tomorrow to post about them.
   
  Here is an exclusive sneak peak though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




:
_"...the build is very mechanical...feels like a DIYer built them in his garage..."_
_"The soundstage size and imaging are better than I expected..."_
_"It actually sort of reminds me of a mid point between the Q701 and DT990..."_
   
  Lol
  ...stay tuned for more later 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  In other news, I officially have enough dough to buy the K702 anniversary.  So I _might_ get an itchy (mouse) trigger finger and impulsively buy them "ahead of schedule" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ...or, I might still  wait to audition them whenever you send out your next care package.  Either way, I still want to A-B them back to back with the Q's before either of them goes.  I will let you know.


----------



## Impulse

What a tease...


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Lol
> 
> I was trying to type a post from my phone, but it was getting too frustrating to do and I just gave up.


 
   
  I, on the other hand, typed this on an ergonomic keyboard.
  The bad news: The good news means I was comfortable writing a lot.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/products/fiio-e12-mont-blanc/reviews/8449
   
  Jus' a little sum'n sum'n for people who haven't read a detailed review in a while (which probably includes... nobody here, lol!)


----------



## Place Holder

.


----------



## junrin

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Looks like the only reviews are in that thread. Amazon doesn't even have a review yet. They also cost $199, so... they'd better be an improvement, as the AD700 costs only half as much.


 
  if the comfort is improved, and now has substantial bass which is not obtrusive, and still retains it gigantic soundstage and detail-whoring capabillities, would it be worth it for $199?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I kinda want a pair of wireless portable headphones. Like wireless KSC75s, with a 5.8ghz base the size of a 3.5mm adapter, lol. 



place holder said:


> Hey Mad, I'm planning on getting the Beyer T1's which are semi-closed. Will I get the cabin pressure feel with them? Will I get it with semi-closed headphones (DT880, etc)?




They are semi-open. You shouldn't have a problem. The DT770, yes, they do have that pressure, especially the Pro models.

Honestly don't know why they label anything semi open or semi closed. It's closed or open, lol. As long as it's open, you wont get that annoying feeling.


----------



## Impulse

junrin said:


> if the comfort is improved, and now has substantial bass which is not obtrusive, and still retains it gigantic soundstage and detail-whoring capabillities, would it be worth it for $199?




That's a lot of if's... AFAIK they really didn't change a ton between the AD700 & AD700X or AD900 & AD900X, besides the price, I think the A900 always had a touch more bass? (not $100's worth tho, considering the competition at that price range)

At least that's the early impression I got at another message board I frequent, so don't take my word on it, dunno if Head Fi or whomever has another take on it... The X variants came out months ago tho, they aren't particularly recent, I'd be surprised if there really aren't more impressions on them out there by now.




mad lust envy said:


> I kinda want a pair of wireless portable headphones. Like wireless KSC75s, with a 5.8ghz base the size of a 3.5mm adapter, lol.




BT has improved a lot IMO, if the source device and receiver are good enough I really don't think you miss out on much when using it for portable use... Something like a Sony MW600 is barely larger than a pen cap and you can use it with nearly any portable hp. Removable cables or creative recabling can make it sleeker.

I tried out a newer apt-X BT adapter last year (HTC's) and could honestly not tell the difference between it and the regular 2.0 / SBC adapter I had (a Miccus)... Though admittedly that comparison was mainly with speakers (some powered Samsons and my car's). Not sure how either would fare with my Koss clips or M-80 (or vs the MW600 that I didn't have at the time for that matter).

5.8Ghz or some proprietary lossless codec on another band would be better for sure but I imagine things like that are considerably more power hungry so you need room for a much larger battery than with BT devices (where power efficiency has been a point of emphasis for years). Battery size/tech (or the lack of improvements there) is really what holds all this back.

IMO most wireless headphones of any kind tend to be grossly overpriced too (for what they are, if you ignore wireless), particularly the better ones. Aything wireless shouldn't jack up the price of a headphone by 2-5x when Wifi and BT USB adapters cost <$15...

It's not like engineering them to run off an integrated power source is a new concept either, when it's been done with NC for so long.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





calpis said:


> So this is my mixamp hooked up to my mstage.
> 
> Here's how I have it setup:
> Xbox/PS3/PC -> HDMI cables -> HDMI Splitter -> Harman Kardon AVR-247 -> Optical passthru -> Mixamp -> Startech Head*SET* splitter -> 3.5mm stereo to 2x RCA -> mstage -> headphones
> ...


 
  DANG old post but that's a nice set up xD me jelly
   
  In edition I'd love to demo some dt 990s :O mad you still got 3 pairs xD


----------



## DoctaCosmos

can't see it in that picture but i got a new marantz receiver too.  sr5006 to go with my new kef xq speakers
  hope to get a new headphone soon to try in the marantz


----------



## Hailin

Very nice Doc. I am so jealous of you guys that can use HT systems with these beautiful speakers. I wonder if I would have ever gotten into headphones if I didn't move into this strata'd hell hole.


----------



## Evshrug

junrin said:


> if the comfort is improved, and now has substantial bass which is not obtrusive, and still retains it gigantic soundstage and detail-whoring capabillities, would it be worth it for $199?



Seems like you just described the Q701 IMO, which I got for $200.


Hailin,
Headphones are just better detailed performers for the dollar. I have above average speakers (not as nice as those lovely curved cabinet floorstanders in DoctaCosmos' picture), but I just can't use them as often as I can use amazing headphones, and I can't justify big speaker furniture when I consider the future with kids and pets. Don't get me wrong, many speakers are AMAZING and I wish I had the money to have a quality full HT setup in it's own room, but... I don't feel so left out with nice headphones.


----------



## Impulse

Those KEF's look sexy.

Hmm, so Crutchfield has a series of specials on Sennheiser headphones where you get a store rewards/gift card with your purchase... Most of it isn't very exciting for this crowd, or Head Fi in general really, their prices are so bloated that even taking the sizable gift card into account you barely break even vs Amazon prices on stuff like the Amperion or HD 650.

However, the gift card you get with the HD 598 is a whopping $100 and they're $250 ($200 on Amazon)... I'm tempted to get them to try them out at home, I've only ever tried the HD 55x/59x at friend's and family's (off AVR and other random sources). Even if they do nothing for me compared to the Beyers and I sell them for $190 I still eke out $40 in the process...

Decisions decisions... I'd definitely use the rewards card, their prices are generally terrible but the free shipping to Puerto Rico often makes up for it. I'll probably order some HT furniture for my parents or an Audioengine N22 speaker amp for myself later in the year.

Heh, someone talk me out of it! Anyway, heads up for anyone looking at the HD 598 and some other sort of home/car audio purchase in the future.


----------



## Evshrug

I've only read good things about the Audioengine N22, wish I'd bought one before buying a receiver (which doesn't see use), and still considered buying one anyway until I got my tube hybrid and E12 amps.

The only thing about a Crutchfield gift card is... you have to spend it at Crutchfield. That profit will get eaten up by the price bloat on pretty much any significant purchase. So unless you intend to get something from them anyway (they sell that N22 for a decent price?) and your time spent reselling a pair of HD598s is worth the time you get to demo it (you'll probably not end up selling it), I wouldn't think it was such a great deal.

On a side note, still salivating over DT880s.


----------



## Impulse

Oh I'll definitely use the card, otherwise I wouldn't even bother with this. Like I said, I'll probably get the N22 in a couple months and/or some furniture for my parent's family room... Both are things I'm better off buying there for the free shipping to PR, the return policy, etc.

Their prices on speaker stands and TV furniture are actually reasonable and the N22's the same as everywhere else ($200), plus it's ridiculously easy to find $10-20 off promo codes for any purchase at Crutchfield, and I've got another $20 in accumulated rewards from one or two orders for AVRs.

I'm not sure the N22's worth it over a Topping T-amp for like half the cost (at least for my cheap Infinity speakers and desk space), but I definitely wanna compare them for myself.

I'm just curious about the Senns really, wondering if they'd outdo my DT 880 in any way for music particularly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Only in mids, do I feel the HD598 bests the 880s. And soundstage. Otherwise, the 880s are superior, IMHO.


----------



## Grymok

Hmm.
  Was just searching a bit for the DT 990 pro and premium on the prices. And here i felt over the Beyer T70 250 ohm for 521 USD,  but the ones of found on amazon.co.uk was the T70p 250 ohm and they goes for 665USD. 
  This prices seems ridiculous cheap :O.
  The DT 990 premium 250 ohm goes for 390USD on amazon.co.uk, but on this store 332 USD. The 32 ohm premium goes for 323 USD.
  Is this pretty cheap or?.
  Actually thinking to get me one of those T70 premium for that price, even that i need it for some FPS, but mainly music, and pt without an amp


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I definitely like having my headphones but i don't feel i'm  missing out on any detail with my speakers.  Another thing is i don't ever get up and start dancing around with my headphones but i do with the kids and wife while the speakers are on. Either way you have to dedicate time to music.  I mean i can play music on my headphones or speakers while i'm playing my games or on the computer but if i'm paying attention to those things then i don't need anything special to play my music (although i do prefer to do this more with headphones than speakers). 
   
  On a side note, i've found myself having more fun with my speakers watching movies. I've never gotten this level of satisfaction from movies with headphones.  I can't believe how much more drawn into the movie a good home theater setup makes you.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Thanks for the compliments guys!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the LCD2 should be here on Saturday (perfect timing as I'm off Sunday and Monday). Got them by the Headamp loaner program. Only get a few days with them, but I'll probably spend the majority of the time just gaming with them so I can put them up on the guide.

I fear the leather and weight, but I'm sure the sound is gonna be amazing.


----------



## Makiah S

MadLust, I'm looking at getting a Schiit Modi as my first DAC, how do I utilize the DAC to play both sound effects from let's say "skyrim" as well as music from FooBar. What plugins might I need from Foobar. I know my Internal Sound Card and drivers have options to output all the sound through another device. But I'm still not sure how to use an external DAC with a computer :O.
   
  Also getting the dt 990s in 2 weeks . Gonna buy em in 6 days then they gatta ship!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know how to set up a DAC for video games. As far as standard PC use, you just plug it in, it installs itself, and you go to:

Sound properties (right click the speaker icon on the task bar)
Playback devices
Highlight Modi (might be under another name, presumably USB DAC), set default
Properties
Supported formats, check up to 96khz (which I believe is what the Modi goes up to). Click Apply.
Go to Advanced
Default Format, change to 24/96.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't know how to set up a DAC for video games. As far as standard PC use, you just plug it in, it installs itself, and you go to:
> 
> Sound properties (right click the speaker icon on the task bar)
> Playback devices
> ...


 
  ... I mean can any one who has a dac try it? My Audio settings are already set to that, but ofc it use my crappy Mobo Dac [who even knows what the hell that is] but I would think... if its just plug and play and select the device... it shouldn't be to much of an issue.
   
  The ONLY time I've ran into problems with audio on my pc is trying to screw with WASAPAI and ASIO outs in FooBar... I got em to work but not with a game and Foobar... but I'll find out soon enough!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't mess with Wasapi, as I have founf that it didn't do anything to sound quality, despite claims that it did. I've A/B-ed betwen Foobar and Winamp, and it sounds the same to me. I hear a bigger difference going from the Modi to the ODAC than changing the media player.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't mess with Wasapi, as I have founf that it didn't do anything to sound quality, despite claims that it did. I've A/B-ed betwen Foobar and Winamp, and it sounds the same to me. I hear a bigger difference going from the Modi to the ODAC than changing the media player.


 
  ... are you saying the Modi sounds better or worse >.>
   
  I was looking at the Odac [and it's about $60 MORE <.<] I'd might jump on an Odac... but the $100 on the modi is pretty sweet >.. compared to like $160 on the ODac
   
  Oh DAMN... The jds Odac got CHEAPER what :O.
   
  but what do you  notice going from Modi to Odac...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ODAC is more fleshed out. I found the Modi to be a bit cold sounding next to the ODAC which sounded fuller. I mean, this is exaggerating the differences. DACs tend to sound quite same-y to me, but I won't deny that when I bought the Modi AFTER the ODAC, I felt the ODAC was still a better DAC (I don't suffer from new toy syndrome, if something is better/worse to me, I'll tell you). Unless you were getting the Magni to have a sexy looking stack, I'd pay extra for the better sounding ODAC, IMHO. If a few micropercentages of better SQ is worth the extra money to you.

I was able to A/B them quickly because the SA-31 has many inputs, so all I had to do was set the default on whatever DAC I wanted to hear and hit a button on the SA-31.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> MadLust, I'm looking at getting a Schiit Modi as my first DAC, how do I utilize the DAC to play both sound effects from let's say "skyrim" as well as music from FooBar. What plugins might I need from Foobar. I know my Internal Sound Card and drivers have options to output all the sound through another device. But I'm still not sure how to use an external DAC with a computer :O.


 
   
   
  I would take that $30 Asus Xonar U3 stick over a $100+ _stereo _DAC (or any stereo DAC) for gaming. 
   
  As long as neither the game nor Foobar take exclusive control over the device, I think they should both fall into the shared audio stream.  This means no using ASIO or WASAPI as those are exclusive modes.  If you route both to the "Primary sound driver" that usually throws them both into the shared mode stream.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I would take that $30 Asus Xonar U3 stick over a $100+ _stereo_ DAC (or any stereo DAC) for gaming.




x1000000000000000


----------



## Impulse

The external DAC basically replaces your mobo's on-board audio once you select it as MLE described, you could even disable the latter in the BIOS and it will no longer show up on that menu. Tho if you wanna use it to hook up cheap speakers or whatever then you'll wanna leave it on. 

If you're not messing with WASAPI there's nothing more to it, everything will play thru your selected audio device, period. 

If you're leaving speakers or whatever on the mobo and you wanna be able to switch between audio devices quicker than going thru that whole process you can look on the Hardforum.com boards for an app someone developed, it's sole function is to allow you to switch audio devices from a right click on a taskbar icon.

It's on the Computer Audio sub-forum, I can post the link later if you want it and can't find it.

P.S. I also agree with WASAPI/ASIO being kinda irrelevant now if you're running Win 7/8 (for playback that is), due to improvements on the OS audio stack.


----------



## Impulse

Quick audio switcher for going between USB DAC and mobo on-board audio or sound cards on PC (or HDMI out via video card, etc etc):

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1656534

Also, I've found that generally if you plug in a USB DAC of any kind and select it, then later disconnect it, when it's reconnected again Windows will auto select it and switch back...

So it's a pretty seamless process if you're using a laptop or something where you'll manually unplug it often (or a small DAC like the U3, which you might plug in on the front ports), wouldn't even need this app.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

impulse said:


> Quick audio switcher for going between USB DAC and mobo on-board audio or sound cards on PC (or HDMI out via video card, etc etc):
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1656534




SWEET. Gracias, hermano.


----------



## chicolom

That's the same little app I use 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Speaking of DACs, does anyone notice that sometimes your DACs show up as recieving an input signal?  I'm talking about on the "recording" tab of the audio devices screen.  Sometimes My E10 and ODAC both will have a strong green signal there, and unplugging and replugging them gets rid of it.  
   
  What even happens if you disable or DAC from the recording devices tab... nothing?
   
  I'm talking about this tab.  Sometimes my DAC and E10 will have constant green signals like that and replugging them gets rid of it...


----------



## DoctaCosmos

skyrim supports dolby and i'm pretty sure if you try sending anything other than a stereo signal to an external dac you will get white noise. Unless you just send it a stereo signal but then you're missing out.  I


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Hmm.
> Was just searching a bit for the DT 990 pro and premium on the prices. And here i felt over the Beyer T70 250 ohm for 521 USD,  but the ones of found on amazon.co.uk was the T70p 250 ohm and they goes for 665USD.
> This prices seems ridiculous cheap :O.
> The DT 990 premium 250 ohm goes for 390USD on amazon.co.uk, but on this store 332 USD. The 32 ohm premium goes for 323 USD.
> ...


 
  No one can answer this? :O.
  If it's really that cheap, i think i will grap one.
  But how does the T70, perform vs the dt990 premium 250 ohm.?.


----------



## xanderwolfe

Hi guys, I'm new to audio and stuff.

 I read the first page, and I think I like the *AKG K702*, not the anniversary edition, I tried it once and it really sounded good. But it's _560 USD_ here in singapore.
 Also, I know nothing about setting it up for my gaming laptop. I know that it needs some kind of amplifier. 

 I'm having a dilemma 'cause i found an* Astro a40 with 2013 mixamp pro* selling for about _400 USD_,
 I asked the seller if I can just buy the mixamp pro but he refused.

 So my question is:
   
_Should I buy the astro a40, sell the headset, save a lil bit more then buy the AKG K702 for Mixamp pro_.
   
  or
   
_Buy the AKG K702, and buy something like the recon3d or the turtle beach dss, which is commonly found here in singapore?_


 Also, if I bought the AKG K702, can anyone tell me the requirements on how to properly set it up? like a checklist of what should I buy.
 I'm hoping for the cheapest setup, but doesn't compromise the quality, because when I asked the salesman on the AKG K702, he proposed that I should buy the Predator Amp, which cost @ around 550USD. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





 Anyway, my laptop is equipped with_ SoundBlaster Recon3di._

 And my current headset is the earphones of iphone.


----------



## Evshrug

Grymok,
Those are all priced above my budget, so I can't even think about them. Therefore, I don't know if those are relatively low prices, otherwise I'd give you a suggestion. Seems you are already in shopping mode though, does that seem like a good price from what you've seen? If so, go for it.

xanderwolfe,
The K702 is certainly a capable headphone. In the USA, the Q701 is very similar but a little cheaper, check if that's the case in your country too.

I have the Q701, I like it a lot, though to be honest I wish it had a higher impedance, like 120 or 250 ohms. Even if it requires the user to turn up the volume a little, it's easier to amp and avoid distortion at higher impedance. Anyway the Predator is a nice amp, but you should check out the new FiiO Mont Blanc E12, the desktop E09k, or even the lower powered E11. Both should be much cheaper, suitable for the AKGs, and available because they're made in Hong Kong. I haven't used an E11 myself, but I am enjoying my E12. If you already have a receiver with your TV setup, you can use that as an amp too.

I didn't know Creative made a Recon3Di. You should check to see if it already offers headphone surround. I like my Recon3D USB a lot and I think it's surround feature works great, especially on PC.


----------



## zx6guy

Mad, you reference some low level noise in your review of the Tritton AX 720 dolby box.  Have you (or anyone else) had a chance to test out the box for the new 720+? 
   
  Can you (or anyone else) expand on your overall feel of the AX720 vs the mixamp?


----------



## roguegeek

junrin said:


> if the comfort is improved, and now has substantial bass which is not obtrusive, and still retains it gigantic soundstage and detail-whoring capabillities, would it be worth it for $199?



IMO, If JUST the comfort is improved, they may be worth the asking price.


----------



## Makiah S

Yea, i figured. I found a guy selling a used odac. So ill save some cash n.buy it From him. He's getting a bit frost. So hopefully he will sell his odac 3/4 what he paid for it. I think he will.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> Mad, you reference some low level noise in your review of the Tritton AX 720 dolby box.  Have you (or anyone else) had a chance to test out the box for the new 720+?
> 
> Can you (or anyone else) expand on your overall feel of the AX720 vs the mixamp?


 
   
  It looks like the "+" is just for some minor changes to the headset.  The box is probably the same.
   
  The main difference between all of the dolby headphone devices is noise floor.


----------



## BrecMadak

Hello fellas, and wow, what a progress, over 700 pages already..
   
  Been looking for a *closed gaming headset* for a while, that is about *~60 $*  So firstly Koss KSC75 got my attention and then after i read elsewhere some about PortaPro it kept going, albeit as being not sure which one to choose, i felt asking would be the best option.
  Here are my preferences as follows;
   
  * Comfortableness is important
  * Isolation is not on top priority, but not on lowest either.
  * Low noise on mic
  * _majority of games will be from new generation, if not all be fps, but H&S and such.._
   
  So which models would fit my needs at best,and be as best value tier ?
   
   
  Thanks for reading.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





brecmadak said:


> Hello fellas, and wow, what a progress, over 700 pages already..
> 
> Been looking for a *closed gaming headset* for a while, that is about *~60 $*  So firstly Koss KSC75 got my attention and then after i read elsewhere some about PortaPro it kept going, albeit as being not sure which one to choose, i felt asking would be the best option.
> Here are my preferences as follows;
> ...


 
   
  Keep an eye on the CAL, they fluctuate often and have dipped down to $60 many times. The KSC75 and PortaPro are both open headphones. With those headphones there is no isolation whatsoever. I love both of mine, but if you need isolation you'll want to look elsewhere.
   
  Amazon link for CAL!
  http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360977305&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live


----------



## zx6guy

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It looks like the "+" is just for some minor changes to the headset.  The box is probably the same.
> 
> The main difference between all of the dolby headphone devices is noise floor.


 

 Actually the box is different.  The picture on page 1 is of the the 720+ while the review appears to be of the AX 720.  You can tell the difference by the main volume knob.  One would assume if they took the time to change the case they probably did some work on the internals. 
   
  With that all said, can anyone comment further on the Tritton 720 Dolby box (either AX 720 or the 720+) and how it compares to say the DSS or Mixamp?  Thanks.


----------



## Makiah S

axelcloris said:


> Keep an eye on the CAL, they fluctuate often and have dipped down to $60 many times. The KSC75 and PortaPro are both open headphones. With those headphones there is no isolation whatsoever. I love both of mine, but if you need isolation you'll want to look elsewhere.
> 
> Amazon link for CAL!
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360977305&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+aurvana+live





Gawd. I have to get a Cal now <3 my dt 880 is sadly too noisy 4 mike


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> Actually the box is different.  The picture on page 1 is of the the 720+ while the review appears to be of the AX 720.  You can tell the difference by the main volume knob.  One would assume if they took the time to change the case they probably did some work on the internals.
> 
> With that all said, can anyone comment further on the Tritton 720 Dolby box (either AX 720 or the 720+) and how it compares to say the DSS or Mixamp?  Thanks.


 
   
  That new box design has actually been out for about two years.  I remember they had it when Gears of War 3 came out (September 2011) and I think before that even.  I remember someone posting an impression on the updated box in this thread a long time ago, but I don't really remember what they said except for them saying it still had some hiss.
   
  What specifically are you wondering about how it compares to the DSS and mixamp?  Are you wondering about differences in features (chat support,etc.) between them?  Like I said before, they all have the same surround sound processing and the main sound quality difference is in noise floor...


----------



## Impulse

mshenay said:


> Gawd. I have to get a Cal now <3 my dt 880 is sadly too noisy 4 mike




DT 880's too noisy for your mic? You either play at an ungodly volume or you need a better mic (or to better position yours).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously. Even the most open headphones I've used don't cause noise for the mics I have used. One example is the AD700. That o e is much more open than the 880s, and is extremely popular with mic use.


----------



## HoodyHoodPecker

I'm sorry, this question was probably being asked a million times to you guys but i'll risk myself anyway.
   
  Looking for an upgrade over my Tritton AX 720. Been having lots of problems lately with them(mostly the mic and random loss of signal)
   
  I'm in need of an all-around headphone/headset since I don't have money for 3+ pair of headphones. I'll use it mostly for gaming(fps and rts) but also music(all genres) and movies. I'm thinking of getting the AKG Q701 with a clip-on mic(probably the AntLion). Do you think it would be a good choice? is there any better choice/combo out there?
   
  Other options I was considering in the ~300$ price range:
   
  Sennheiser PC360
  Sennheiser HD598
  V-Moda M-100
   
   
  Thanks in advance to anyone who replies! I need your help.


----------



## BrecMadak

axelcloris said:


> brecmadak said:
> 
> 
> > Hello fellas, and wow, what a progress, over 700 pages already..
> ...



thanks for that AxelCloris, any other alternatives would be handy !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JUST got the LCD2. The Bamboo is the lighter one right? If so, it doesn't feel much heavier from the HE-400. I must have a huge head, as I have to have it fully extended.


First impression: Already hate the leather pads... HATE. But I expected that. If the Vegan pads sound the same and cut down on that horrible feel on my skin, I might actually REALLY like the LCD2.

The first thing I felt when I put them on that immediately irked me, was the airplane cabin pressure. I'm absolutely surprised it has this, when it's not a closed headphone. That's gonna take getting used to.

Sound-wise, it reminds me a lot of the HE-650 in tonal balance, with HE-400's bass, and HD650's mids and treble with added refinement. So basically, the LCD2's sound is favorable, as I love both the HD650 AND HE-400.

These are stupid quick impressions, nothing concrete.

edit: Yes, HE-400 bass + HD650 mids and treble+ refinement = LCD2.

I haven't gamed with them yet, but FWIH so far, I'm willing to guess:

Fun: 9
Competitive: 6.5/7 (sounds more like a closed headphone, and I have a feeling soundstage+positioning isn't gonna be great)
Comfort: 7 (good, not great, and I'm not even taking the fact they are leather pads into account. For me personally, comfort is more of a 6, but I'm biased against leather)


----------



## BrecMadak

@ Mad Lust Envy: Have anything to suggest me Mad ? I was surprised actually that there is not any Plantronics or Panasonic models on reviews yet, does any of their models would fit my needs ? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the Panasonic HTX7. I dunno how the hell they were so popular. They sounded sooooo bad for me. They are cheap and that retro look is nice, but dear god, no.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, your HE400s are currently on their way to Evshrug. 
   
  I also modded the parts express headband and added it to the box (*_cough_* someone owes me $2 paypal) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  _JK, don't worry about it._
   
  I jotted down enough notes and impressions on the HE400 to do a full comparison/review, so I just need to write them up in a review format and I'll probably post them in this thread and also in a new side comparison/review thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was quick, didn't feel like you had them that long. Easy question: Love, like, dislike, hate?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> JUST got the LCD2.
> 
> First impression: Already hate the leather pads... HATE.
> 
> The first thing I felt when I put them on that immediately irked me, was the airplane cabin pressure. I'm absolutely surprised it has this, when it's not a closed headphone. That's gonna take getting used to.


 
   
  LOL, you mean they don't "_disappear on your head_"?
   
  I never would have guessed that....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That was quick, didn't feel like you had them that long. Easy question: Love, like, dislike, hate?


 
   
  Ya.  That's the exact same thing Evshrug said 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I had them for less than a week but I got several solid hours of listening on them.
   
   
  Definitely _like_, and parts of it _love..._


----------



## Impulse

So MLE, how'd you end up with the LCD-2? Loaner pair or did you buy them out of sheer curiosity? For the price they'd have to obliterate some of the other headphones in your list for me to think they're worth it, but I know value actually goes in the opposite direction (and out the window) at that level.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





xanderwolfe said:


> Hi guys, I'm new to audio and stuff.
> 
> I read the first page, and I think I like the *AKG K702*, not the anniversary edition, I tried it once and it really sounded good. But it's _560 USD_ here in singapore.
> Also, I know nothing about setting it up for my gaming laptop. I know that it needs some kind of amplifier.
> ...


 
  If you want I can sell you my mixamp 2013 for US $100+shipping. PM me for details. It's barely used and I haven't even registered the product yet.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> MLE, your HE400s are currently on their way to Evshrug.
> 
> I also modded the parts express headband and added it to the box (*_cough_* someone owes me $2 paypal) :veryevil:   _JK, don't worry about it._
> 
> I jotted down enough notes and impressions on the HE400 to do a full comparison/review, so I just need to write them up in a review format and I'll probably post them in this thread and also in a new side comparison/review thread.




Aw, it's valentines headphones!
What's the parts express headband for? How much was the total shipping cost?


----------



## Impulse

That's the headband he used to mount his Koss clip ons no?


----------



## Nimitz87

been reading a lot on here about headphones and gaming in general and have become completely and utterly confused :/
   
  I game mostly on my PC but do play FPS on xbox 360.
   
  looking for a pair of headphones that can basically "do it all" I listen to mainly EDM/dubstep stuff and was looking at a pair of DT770's (80ohm) and pairing it with an astro mixamp.
   
  was also looking at the ultrasone hfi 780's and the 750 pro's
   
  however I have read that possibly the mixamp wont be enough for them?
   
  so would I need something like those external portable amps AND the Astro mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp should power them well enough. None are that hard to drive, though I certainly don't recommend the 770 Pros for FPS games. Waaay too much bass bloat.


----------



## Nimitz87

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp should power them well enough. None are that hard to drive, though I certainly don't recommend the 770 Pros for FPS games. Waaay too much bass bloat.


 
  yeah I do realize they arent the best for that, however for FPS it's more of a casual thing and I mainly play league of legends and listen to music or watch movies.
   
  thanks for the help.


----------



## Makiah S

nimitz87 said:


> yeah I do realize they arent the best for that, however for FPS it's more of a casual thing and I mainly play league of legends and listen to music or watch movies.
> 
> thanks for the help.




Dt 880 990 or try a 250 ohm closed 770. But the 880 id really n excellent can. My 990 n 770 pro 80 will b in my hands soon :3. Might even try 770 Le


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Aw, it's valentines headphones!
> What's the parts express headband for? How much was the total shipping cost?


 
   
  The HE400 and Q701 are either hugging.....or fighting...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Ya the parts express headband is the one people get for modding.
   
  The koss drivers just snap right into them without any modifications, plug-n-play.
   
  The headband (technically mini stereo headphones) are only $1.99, but shipping costs more than the headphones themselves.  And unfortunately it turns out parts-express doesn't really combing shipping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They add some extra shipping $ for 2 or 3 headbands even though they all just get shoved in an envelope.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quick question... will the 2013 MixAmp drive the Beyerdynamic DT990Pro 250ohms fine? 
   
  Whats probably the better setup for blu-ray movies as priority #1 and gaming second priority.... MixAmp + A40 or MixAmp + Beyerdynamic DT990Pro 250ohms? Or dare I say maybe even the Sony Pulse?
   
  Thanks all, very helpful thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ideally, you're gonna want an additional amp to power the 990s. However, you can live with the Mixamp alone if not using a mic. Not ideal, but it works.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ideally, you're gonna want an additional amp to power the 990s. However, you can live with the Mixamp alone if not using a mic. Not ideal, but it works.


 
  Sounds good, Thanks! Down the road I guess I can add a amp like the Magni or E9K. 
   
  What do you think would be the better setup for movies... MixAmp + A40 or MixAmp + Beyerdynamic DT990Pro 250...  ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

990s are in a whole other league. No contest.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 990s are in a whole other league. No contest.


 
  Thank You for straightening that out for me. I figured as much but I thought I would ask anyways. I think Ill be going for the MixAmp + 990s and then somewhere down the road add the Magni or E9K.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let us know how it works out for you.


----------



## Makiah S

Yup. Cant w8 to get mine




mad lust envy said:


> 990s are in a whole other league. No contest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interesting. The LCD2 does quite well for gaming, even competitively, from the short MW2 run. The fact that the bass and mids are so linear and flat, make it quite detailed all the way up until you hit the treble, which gently smoothens out, a bit more than the Annie. Played for about 2 hours, and I can say that the soundstage depth seemed pretty damn good. Soundstage isn't large, but it's definitely of a good size when using Dolby Headphone, and it does seem to be *quite* natural sounding overall. Color me impressed.

Also wanna note that the LCD2 is almost laughably easy to drive volume-wise, and it sounded damn good off the Mixamp alone. Probably easier to drive than the HE-400. I'll have to do more testing. My Mixamp kinda isn't good alone, with it's bad imbalance and knob distortion, but maxing out the volume and having the game/voice knob at about half way gave the LCD2 plenty of volume. That's the least I have needed from my main cans in awhile.

Surprisingly, the LCD2 needs more on my Compass 2's volume knob than the Annie. Not by much, but it's worth noting that the Annie goes louder, faster. Didn't test on the Mixamp though.

I'll update my *guess* to a 9, 8 (or 7.5) score.


----------



## TMRaven

Flat frequency response goes a long way in extracting detail!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I learned that with the HD650, which was quite linear up to the treble as well, and sounded very detailed for gaming (I would even call it borderline analytical in dissecting sounds). It just didn't do as well as I would have liked due to the not so great soundstage/positioning. The LCD2 sounds more rounded than the HD650 in soundstage shape.

The LCD2 is also faster than the HD650 which was a bit laid back/slow. I don't get that impression with the LCD2. The treble is definitely rolled off, but I don't feel it's recessed to a point of it being veiled. I didn't get that from the HD650 either, but I feel the LCD2 is an upgrade to the HD650 in every way other than comfort.

Dear lord, that *bass* though. I mean, I can say the mids are just as good as the HD650's in intimacy and detail, but the bass... I haven't ever heard such texture and fullness without it being overly emphasized. The HE-400 is the closest candidate, yes, but the LCD2 really has some jaw dropping bass. It's crazy when I say the LCD2 has the best bass AND mids I have heard... where the HE-400 gets second in bass, and HD650 gets second in mids. That is the easiest comparisons I can make.

Keep in mind, I still prefer the bass on the D7000, even if it's not technically as good. Just something about it that resonates with me.


----------



## TMRaven

Because it literally resonates.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, that's true. Harmonic distortion. Don't care. It gives it that amazing bass. 

That being said, just went back to the Annie, and I still manage to be impressed by it. The sense of air puts the LCD2 to shame, and it has more perceived clarity overall. Just a daaaaaamn good headphone. I knew I chose well with it.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I kinda want a pair of wireless portable headphones. Like wireless KSC75s, with a 5.8ghz base the size of a 3.5mm adapter, lol.


 
   
  Sleek Audio's SA7! Just wait for them to come out with the new W-1 wireless device (with no hiss/higher build quality) and to add "more exotic" sidings over the soft touch blasted silicone, like "military grade carbon fiber". Also, not sure if the one that's out now uses the titanium hexagonal fasteners, but the newer ones to come might.

 http://sleek-audio.com/products/universal/sa - Original Page for the SA7
  http://store.sleek-audio.com/earphones/sa7-in-ear-earphones.html - Current, available SA7 page


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

soamusing777 said:


> Sleek Audio's SA7! Just wait for them to come out with the new W-1 wireless device (with no hiss/higher build quality) and to add "more exotic" sidings over the soft touch blasted silicone, like "military grade carbon fiber". Also, not sure if the one that's out now uses the titanium hexagonal fasteners, but the newer ones to come might.
> 
> http://sleek-audio.com/products/universal/sa - Original Page for the SA7
> http://store.sleek-audio.com/earphones/sa7-in-ear-earphones.html - Current, available SA7 page




In ears = no way


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In ears = no way


 
   
  K then. So, what did we all find out that mixes? Steelseries, Slyr, and the Mixamp? Can the Slyr be used with HDMI?


----------



## Jason Bourne

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Let us know how it works out for you.


 
  will do


----------



## froyoyo

Hello, I am looking at purchasing my first pair of headphones ever. To be honest I've never really even listened to a nice pair either. I'm trying to keep my limit to $150 for these. I've read through many threads on here and the majority of this thread and I have to say I'm overwhelmed. I'm looking to use these headphones for gaming and listening to music. Nothing too crazy. If someone could please recommend me a nice set that'd be great.


----------



## Makiah S

froyoyo said:


> Hello, I am looking at purchasing my first pair of headphones ever. To be honest I've never really even listened to a nice pair either. I'm trying to keep my limit to $150 for these. I've read through many threads on here and the majority of this thread and I have to say I'm overwhelmed. I'm looking to use these headphones for gaming and listening to music. Nothing too crazy. If someone could please recommend me a nice set that'd be great.




Try the dt 990 pro, used its about 125. Still... U could also try good ole koss pro dj 100 fioo e11 combo all under 100 if u get it at the right place


----------



## Impulse

The DT 990 would need an amp to sound their best and even used it'd barely be within budget... Senn HD 558 might be an easier option for a budget all around-er.


----------



## Makiah S

impulse said:


> The DT 990 would need an amp to sound their best and even used it'd barely be within budget... Senn HD 558 might be an easier option for a budget all around-er.




Yea thats true... Im not familiar with senn cans


----------



## Makiah S

impulse said:


> The DT 990 would need an amp to sound their best and even used it'd barely be within budget... Senn HD 558 might be an easier option for a budget all around-er.




Yea thats true... Im not familiar with senn cans. U can always try the creative aura live...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone want my pair of HE-400s for $300? Yup. Just remember, the Hifiman branding and L/R markers on the headphone are gone, so it looks 'protoype-ish'. The cables have the L/R markers though.

Obviously, not selling them for a few weeks as Evs and Calpis need their turns. Cal, if you can, please hold them for me until I sell them.


----------



## ruuku

Damn that''s a good deal... I'm assuming the velours are included?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, two pairs. I don't have pleathers.


----------



## Impulse

Hah, no place for them now that you've got the LCD-2? That's actually tempting, I've been weighing where I wanna go past my DT 880 and just can't make up my mind...

I've been looking forward to the Fidelio X1 but if they are indeed pretty V-shaped I might lose interest in those. The HE-400 seem very appealing sound-wise, I'm just not sure I'd get along with the weight & the double entry plugs that stick out (pet peeve of mine, at least the cable's easily replaceable). The HD650 seems intriguing to a certain extent too, but I think the former would be more versatile for my uses and current equipment.

The thing is, I'm not after one pair of headphones for music and another for gaming... I want an all-arounder that works well with either (for my desk), which my Beyers have succeeded at thus far, and then something I'll simply leave in the living room for TV, movies, and occasionally music.

I started off looking for something that would complement my DT 880 and fill that second role, maybe something that would occasionally give me a different sound for music when I brought them over to my desk in place of the Beyers... I'm now thinking the DT 880 might end up being the living room pair tho.

I can't stand sucked out mids tho, I find the DT 880 to be alright in that regard, but certain female vocals seem slightly more appealing on my M-80 (they're warmer overall, tho less refined and the treble's like the opposite of the Beyers). There's so much conflicting info on the HE-400 out there, normally I can sort of figure it out but the different versions and pads make reading thru reviews and impressions such a chore...

HD 650 vs HE-400, is it an oversimplification to look at it as mids emphasis vs better executed bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I won't have the LCD2 for longer, though if I sell the HE400, I might consider saving up for one. It's everything I like about the HE400 and HD650 put into one headphone.

The HE400 doesn't have forward mids. The mids are good, but slightly recessed, and the treble is a bit oberemphasized. I'm moving away from that much treble emphasis.

For real though, the Annie might be what you want. All rounder is the proper term for it.


----------



## roguegeek

I thought I had it figured out. I thought I was moving from my impressive, but highly uncomfortable AD700 for competitive gaming onto the K702. In this guide, it scored 6-10-7.5 and I can find them for about $260. Then I kept reading about the DT990 Pro which scored 9-8-8.5 and I can find them for about $190. My primary use of this next purchase is for competitive gaming, but I see myself wanting another set soon after for general use. I'm thinking I stick with the original decision of the K702, but I'd like to know what I gain and lose between the both. Who knows? Maybe I just pick up both?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have mentioned time and time again that scores should not be compared...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I won't have the LCD2 for longer, though if I sell the HE400, I might consider saving up for one. It's everything I like about the HE400 and HD650 put into one headphone.
> 
> The HE400 doesn't have forward mids. The mids are good, but slightly recessed, and the treble is a bit oberemphasized. I'm moving away from that much treble emphasis.
> 
> For real though, the Annie might be what you want. All rounder is the proper term for it.


 
  why not  let your HE $300 float around as a loaner for a few weeks xD, I'd love to buy it though... and I might e.e espically that cheap >.>


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have basically finished the LCD2 review, though I want to do another day of testing to make sure.


----------



## Hailin

HE400 for 300 is really good even used. Now that I have my AlphaDogs (or MadDogs depending on how you like to say it.) I have no need for another ortho that isn't a LCD of some variant. 
   
  MLE I wanted to ask you quickly with the line in on Compass2 from the Mixamp do you have ground loop hum? 
   
  My Maverick has it like a person going to try the E9 tonight to make sure it isn't a cable issue.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I have basically finished the LCD2 review, though I want to do another day of testing to make sure.


 
  lucky u xD. Still I'll b trying an lcd 2 at the Winstom Salem meet soon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> HE400 for 300 is really good even used. Now that I have my AlphaDogs (or MadDogs depending on how you like to say it.) I have no need for another ortho that isn't a LCD of some variant.
> 
> MLE I wanted to ask you quickly with the line in on Compass2 from the Mixamp do you have ground loop hum?
> 
> My Maverick has it like a person going to try the E9 tonight to make sure it isn't a cable issue.




I literally have to unplug both my USB signal going to the Compass 2 as well as the RCA out going to my laptop speakers for it to be quiet. I get hum if I plug either one in when using the Line In.




----------
----------





*Audeze LCD-2*
*(This review is subject to change, and should be considered incomplete until further notice)*



Sells for $995 (Headamp)



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I would like to personally thank Justin at Headamp for allowing head-fiers like myself to test out the Audeze LCD-2 at home for a few days. Without him and Headamp, I would have most likely never been able to demo these stellar, and extremely expensive headphones. The LCD-2 are one of the most popular, and highly regarded former flagships to date. Until the LCD-3's release, the LCD-2 was arguably knoiwn as the best headphone in the world in the $1500 or less price range. It's most popular and direct competitors in the price range are the Hifiman HE-6, the Sennheiser HD800, Ultrasone Edition 8 and Signature Pro, among some others.


*Build Quality*: I must say I'm not a big fan of the LCD-2's aesthetics. It has a very retro look to it, as if these were made in the 1940s. I'm sure there are many fans of it's look, but I'm not one of them. It looks clunky, way too large, and borderline utilitarian, in my opinion. The cups are made of wood (there are rosewood and bamboo variants, bamboo being lighter). I was sent the bamboo LCD-2, which I was hoping on, as the LCD-2 is quite heavy as is. The grills are black, with the Audeze grill design, with screws that protrude holding it in place. The headband adjustment is basically two long cylindrical rods, which look durable, but ugly as sin. The headband is padded with leather bumps, which aren't as offensive as the AKG K701/2/Q701 bumps. They aren't extremely soft, but get the job done. The cable input is a 4-pin XLR, which is leaps and bounds better than Hifiman's horrible screw-in type of connector.

The connectors are angled, which I'm a big fan of, as they allow the headphone cables to stick out a little in front of you, and not directly fall on your shoulders. The removable headphone cable looks straight out of 1940 as well, with small cables covering each channel and stuck together. While it's not the prettiest cable, I am a fan, as it's relatively flat, and should be mostly tangle-free. The termination is a very thich 6.3mm (1/4") plug, which screams rugged and durable. Unfortunately, there is no 3.5mm adapter of any kind, so you may want something like the Grado 1/4" to 3.5mm cable to connect to smaller devices. Due to the fact that the LCD-2 is actually pretty decent on lesser equipment (doesn't need a lot to sound good), you might wanna invest on such an adapter if you have a portable amp here or there. The LCD-2 is definitely not for portable use, but it can at least be transportable and enjoyable in that method.

The included pads are made of real leather (none of that pleather nonsense). They are angled, and VERY thick. Not the softest kind, but not hard either. I feel they are the right amount of firmness, personally. Audeze also sells vegan pads (which are more akin to something like velours) if you're like me, and prefer non-pleather/leather material.

As I briefly mentioned, the LCD-2 overall is a very retro, very heavy, very big, and of utilitarian design.


*Comfort*: The LCD-2 is not exactly what I'd call comfortable. The weight is definitely a factor. They also have some clamp, which can be a bit strong. I'd bend the headband out to lessen this, but as these are not mine, I've left them untouched. I don't mind it's clamp personally, but I would prefer a bit less. My biggest issue is that even for an open-design headphone, they have that airplane cabin-pressure feeling once you put them on. It's as if the pads find a seal, and you get that suction feeling. It's a bit surprising and unpleasant, but the feeling goes away after awhile.

As always, leather builds up heat and induces sweat, but the effect is somewhat better with leather compared to pleather which tends to add stickiness into the mix. Thankfully, as I demoed the LCD-2, Florida was going through a pretty strong cold front, so the pads didn't bother me much. I still would have preferred the vegan pads, but beggars can't be choosers. The headband on the first day of use put pressure on the top of my noggin, which was quite uncomfortable. After a day, I was able to get used to the feeling. Certainly not as bad as the AKG headband bumps which never disappear off the head.

Overall, I'd say the comfort on the LCD-2 is passable. Not the worst, but not great. It's between decent to good.


*Accessories*: You get the headphone, the cable, some stickers, and an AMAZING hard case. The case looks like it would survive a nuclear blast. Very impressive, to say the least. Not exactly something I'd keep in the the open, but it should offer extreme protection if you desire to use it.


*Isolation/Leakage*: As an open-ear headphone, the LCD-2 isn't exactly isolating. It lets external noises in, and leaks out a LOT. You definitely do not want to use this in a room with people, or even in a separate room with the door open.


*Sound*: To the meat of what everyone really wants to know. What does a $1000 headphone sound like? I must say... FANTASTIC. The tonal balance is quite warm, rich, creamy, and oooooh so seductive. The frequency response of the LCD-2 is VERY linear up until the upper mids, which then gently rolls off to a smooth treble range. This makes the LCD-2 like the HD650, in which is brings in a thick, musical, and non-fatiguing sound signature. In short, if I were to put the HE-400's bass with the HD650's mids and treble, with a pinch of refinement, the concoction would sound something like the LCD-2.

Is it all magical? Unfortunately, no. The LCD-2 has it's weaknesses. Number 1 being that the treble isn't what I'd consider natural. It's rolled off a bit. While I wouldn't change this (as it'd make the bass and mids less magical), the smooth treble leads to very little airiness in the sound and somewhat congested and small-ish soundstage. Can't have it all, it seems. Let's get into the specifics...


*Bass*: The bass. Dear god. The bass. Incredibly full, textured, and very, VERY deep. Due to the extreme linearity of the LCD2's response, I can't say the bass is emphasized, because it is PERFECTLY in line with the mids. Seriously, if you look at the published graphs, you'd see, there is absolutely no real emphasis anywhere. Does that mean the bass is neutral and not very strong? Yes and no. The LCD-2 has bar none, the best bass I have ever heard on any headphone. Not the MOST bass, just the best overall.

While I personally prefer the Denon D7000's fun fueled bass with it's emphasized and omnipotent sub bass, it isn't accurate, and doesn't have very strong mid bass. It also tends to add bass where there shouldn't be none. The Ultrasone Pro 2900's bass is incredibly agile, and sharp, but lacks quite a bit in the sub-region. The LCD-2's bass is full in all areas and not just certain frequencies. When a source demands it, the LCD-2 hits like Thor's hammer, and in all other cases, presents itself very naturally. There is absolutely no lack of bass here. Just accurate, and always involved in a proper manner.

The closest competitor (with very similar bass) is the Hifiman HE-400. The LCD-2 further improves on the type of bass the HE-400 is known for with even more texture and fullness. Headphones should strive to have the type of bass that the LCD-2 has. It's that good.


*Mids*: If you have read my HD650 review on this guide, you know how absolutely entranced I am by it's mids/vocals. What if I told you the LCD-2's mids are even better? That's right. The LCD-2's mids are incredibly intimate, haunting, and realistic. I have never heard vocals sound as if the singers were singing in the same room. This is as close as it's come to that. The best word for me to describe the mids is: NATURAL. Natural, organic, realistic, very detailed, and spine-chilling. Don't get me wrong, the HD650's mids are very, VERY close to this, but the LCD-2 just has that extra step that makes them stick out even more for me. Amazing. Absolutely.


*Treble*: The treble range. This is the LCD-2's weak point in terms of it's frequency response. In order to make the bass and mids as special as they are, something had to give. Unfortunately, it's the treble range. Technically rolled off and smooth. This gives the LCD-2 lose out on air and soundstage, which leads to congestion/stuffiness. The lack of air paired up with the incredibly full notes tends to clash sounds together in comparison to other headphones with more treble, which is the LCD-2's biggest shortcoming. Personally, the treble is the least important aspect of sound to me now, as most music is in the bass and mids region of the sound spectrum. Treble aids in perceived clarity with sparkle and air, but it's not essential or integral. The LCD-2 is not undetailed or veiled sounding. However, the treble does lack sparkle in comparison to more neutral offerings. That is undeniable. This is one area that it truly shares with the HD650. However, I feel the LCD-2 is quicker and more aggressive, so it doesn't sound laid back like the HD650.


*Soundstage*: As mentioned before, the lack of air and the congestion due to it's smooth treble response leads to a soundstage that is more akin to a closed headphone. Like a closed headphone with a large soundstage, but disappointing for an open headphone. 

I directly compared the LCD-2 with my K702 65th Anniversary which is also warm/smooth. 

The LCD-2: It's midnight, the place is a small, smoky jazz lounge. There is a very sultry, seductive singer in a long red dress, glass of red wine in hand, who recently brought you up on stage and sat you on a chair. She sits on your lap and begins to sing her slow, romantic song directly to you.

K702 Anniversary: Instead of a smoky jazz lounge, you're in the front row of an open theatre, same woman, same song, but she's moving around while singing it to many people.

Make sense? The LCD2 is a lot more intimate and closed in, while the Annie has a much bigger sense of air, space and perceived clarity of notes. Both are so very good in what they do, but very different in presentation. What I recently stated was how I personally heard the LCD-2 for music, the LCD-2 for gaming (with Dolby Headphone) fared quite a bit better. Soundstage opened up, with a very good sense of depth and relatively decent width. Not very large, but there was ample space to allow positional cues space to do their magic. 


*Positioning*: Positional cues were surprisingly very good. I had zero issues locating sound placement, though lesser headphones with less thickness made it much easier to pinpoint sounds. The LCD-2 is one of the better headphones I have heard in terms of rear depth, which is incredibly beneficial for positional cues.


*Clarity*: Clarity for gaming is actually pretty good. That linear response in bass and mids gives the LCD-2 quite a detailed sound for gaming, even borderline analytical at times (like the HD650, which was also surprisingly detailed for gaming), while softening just the impact of the more annoying sounds like gun fire and glass shattering enough to reduce ear fatigue. You get fullness AND clarity. Not many headphones that do both.


*Amping*: The LCD-2 is surprisingly easy to power for a planar magnetic headphone, requiring minimal amping to sound good. I was able to use it with the Mixamp alone, though I would still recommend some amping to truly make this $1000 worth the purchase. No reason to skimp out here when you've aready spent so much money on the headphone alone. The LCD-2 is known to scale up quite a bit, as it can handle a ridiculous amount of power, despite not needing much to hit the ground running. It certain improved in refinement when I used paired the Mixamp up with my Compass 2 which does 2 watts at 50ohm. The LCD-2 can handle even more than that.


*Value*: Value is certainly questionable. It costs an exhorbitant amount of money, and you can get by with much, much less for gaming in particular.


*Final Impressions*: The LCD-2 is a truly stunning headphone with the best bass and mids I have heard to date. That being said, as far as gaming goes, there are headphones better suited that cost MUCH less. It however, a top tier headphone that will impress on almost all fronts with few weaknesses. You get lots of warmth, musicality, fullness, and truly organic sound. Treble, air, and congestion are it's weaknesses, but the overall package is so fantastic, you can forgive these faults once everything is taken into account. This is one headphone I suggest people use for gaming if you happen to own them, though I certainly wouldn't buy them with gaming as the top priority. It is certainly better for non-gaming needs, though hold their own for gaming, especially for casual/fun gaming.

Final Scores...



Fun: 9 (Fantastic. Incredible warmth, bass texture, mids, and fullness, for lots of immersion.)

Competitive: 7 (Good. Great clarity and detail, decent soundstage in Dolby Headphone with good rear positional cues.)

Comfort: 6.5 (Decent. Heavy, and clampy, but not completely offensive. It's passable. Comfort may be boosted with vegan pads and stretching the headband out for less clamp.)


----------



## Simcon

mad lust envy said:


> I literally have to unplug both my USB signal going to the Compass 2 as well as the RCA out going to my laptop speakers for it to be quiet. I get hum if I plug either one in when using the Line In.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I really love the evolution of your reviews, it's fairly easy to notice which ones are new, and those that aren't . Haven't read through all pages in the thread, but do you have any experience of the HD800? Are we gonna see your thoughts on them ? Personally I think that comfort should be the main priority since the headphones tend to stay on the head for hours once I've started listening .


----------



## burritoboy9984

*NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
   
  I'm officially a stax convert now. Haven't had much gaming time, but I've officially gone crazy with electrets and electrostats. Got a pair of Numark ES701's which lead to SR 34's which lead to SR 80's with SRD-6, which finally lead to SR Lambda with SRD-7. Thx for killing my wallet, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## burritoboy9984

I'm officially a stax convert now. Haven't had much gaming time, but I've officially gone crazy with electrets and electrostats. Got a pair of Numark ES701's which lead to SR 34's which lead to SR 80's with SRD-6, which finally lead to SR Lambda with SRD-7. Thx for killing my wallet, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> I have mentioned time and time again that scores should not be compared...



Alright, my little critique. Although it does state not to compare scores in the guide, I hope it can be understood that something as objective as a number to rate aspects is going to be difficult not to use for comparative purposes. I'm not trying to troll or get into some sort of confrontation. That's just my honest observation. What does help a lot in terms of clarification is the somewhat newly introduced "Top Choices" section. Now moving on with a better understanding, I can revise my question...

I thought I had it figured out. I thought I was moving from my impressive, but highly uncomfortable AD700 for competitive gaming onto the K702 which I can find for about $260. Then I kept reading about the DT990 and how Mad "happily sold the killer K701s as [he] saw no need to own anything for gaming after the 990s at the time." I can find the Pro for about $190. Im also seeing the K701 is placed higher than the DT990 in the "Top Choices" section which I'm not sure if that's intended to mean one is recommended over the other or if it's just a random collection of choices. It doesn't appear very random, but it is not explain in the guide either.

My primary use of this next purchase is for competitive gaming, but I see myself wanting another set soon after for general use. I'd like to gather more feedback on the comparison of the two. Who knows? Maybe picking up both is the right thing to do? I'm at a loss and could use some help.


----------



## smogsy

you said to post on this thread, so
   
  From your point of view, if you had £350 to spend on decent Headphones + Mic
   
  remembering i have PC360 already with asus xonar stx what would you go for?
   
  I have made a thread but no responses as of yet 
   
  mostly gaming with music aswell. (sometimes at the same time)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I'm pretty sure the reason MLE stresses that the scores* can't be compared directly is because he's never had more than 2-4 of these headphones on hand to compare directly against each other*... So while he can do a relatively accurate ranking of certain aspects based on his trajectory thru them, he can't tell you X headphone is a 9.6 in one regard when directly compared against B headphone which would be a 9.2 or whatever. It's just not very practical given his resources.
> 
> I agree it can be a bit disorienting, but I don't see how else he could go about it tbh unless he somehow had the chance to go back and re-listen to a lot of stuff at some point, the whole guide is still a great resource.


 
   
   
   
  "EACH SCORE IS *REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS*, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO."
   
  That's the reason ^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  The KSC75 is damn good, and it _should_ score pretty well - but that doesn't mean it won't get destroyed by the pricier headphones with similar scores.
   
  Not to mention that scores for "Fun" and "Competitive" are just very broad categories that themselves are determined by summing/averaging a bunch of other more complex subcategories - like overall signature, bass impact, warmth, treble, airiness, detail/resolution, soundstage size, imaging, etc.
   
  So even if two headphones have the exact same scores they will still be different as all the parts that contributed to those scores are different and unique.  And your own personal sound preference can/will influence which of the two "identical scoring" headphones will actually sound better _to you.  _
   
  If you know what sound you like and don't like, the scores might not matter as much.  For example, MLE gave the DT990 a 9 for "Fun", but I'm not a fan of the bright signature so I _personally_ think the Q701 is more fun sounding, even though it has a 7.5 for "fun". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Blasphemy!!
   
  So you need to figure out what things you enjoy about certain headphones, and what type of sound are looking for.  Then go back and read the review looking for those details on how each headphones sound and how they differs from each other, and not necessarily trying to boil it down to which has the higher score.
   
   
_BTW, I'm just saying all this stuff in general, not aimed at anyone specific..._


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Screw you! 

I have to rethink the 7 on the LCD2 as it sounds positive while the HD650's 7 sounds negative. Perhaps a 7.5 for the LCD2. Again, not comparing, just stating how the summary for both are quite different... Ah well.


----------



## smogsy

for a new audiophile how would find out what you like ^_^ unless you try,
   
  doubt theres a decent shop in essex.
  
   
  i di like the sound of my pc-360 but would like better qaulity. being a headset for £160 i can see sound qaulity dropped for paying for mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The truest upgrade to the PC360 for me would be the Q701, and if you can spring for more, the K702 Anniversary is even more of an upgrade.


----------



## smogsy

cheers will look into them,
   
  do you kknow of any decent clip on mics


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only mics I know of are on the first post. I use the cheap Dealextreme clip on. Hasn't failed me yet, though TBH, I hardly ever use the mic to begin with.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





smogsy said:


> for a new audiophile how would find out what you like ^_^ *unless you try,*
> 
> doubt theres a decent shop in essex.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Without trying anything your idea of how headphones sound is like a blank map, and each headphone you try adds another reference point on that map.  If you tried a lot of headphones you have a lot of reference points for how they all sound.  Some of them are more extreme outlier reference points than others, which is still useful (if people say a headphone has more treble than DT990, I know to run).
   
  For example, I know how the PC360 sounds in relation to all the other headphones I've tried in my profile.  And if someone says, headphone X has a similar soundstage or similar balance to the PC360, I will have a pretty good idea of how headphone X sounds.
   
  Every new headphone you try will help solidify what you like and dislike, so you have to try _some_ stuff at least.
   
   
  The only way to _truely_ know how a headphone sounds, is to hear it for yourself.  You can still do a lot of "head-fi" research and narrow down you your choices though.  This is what I did in order to reach the Q701.  I had a list of 12 headphones and I went through one by one and ruled out headphones that I knew wouldn't be a good fit (pleather pads, small soundstage, etc).  Eventually I had 3 or so, and out of those I did further research and narrowed it down to the Q701. 
   
  I did _A LOT _of research.  So...much.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The good thing is, now I have the knowledge and experience, and I don't need to research much at all.   I can tell pretty quickly whether or not I would like a headphone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It feels gooood.
   
   
  It also helps a lot to write down some of your impressions about how each headphone sounds, especially when your first starting out, otherwise after a while you can forget  - and you will _lose _that "reference point".  If you look back at your notes though, you can remember how they sounded and why you wrote what you did about them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the best starting point, if money permits, is something like the DT880. Very balanced, with a slight tip towards bass and treble (I stress slight). Not perfectly neutral, but colored in an agreeable way. Not sure on it's competitive gaming nature (I really need to re-visit the DT880 in higher impedances, as I feel I may like them a bit more than waaaay back when I owned them).

Just a shame the price has gone up now, and only the DT880 Pro is in a logical price range. For the price the Premiums go for, I would just save the extra money for a K702 Anniversary, really.

Is it weird that I'm looking forward to giving the Annie all my time again? Had to neglect them lately due to needing to get as much headtime with the LCD2 before I send them out to the next person, but I snuck in a few listens, and I can't help but smile.


----------



## chicolom

I edited my previous post so many times, I went through a MLE avatar change!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sneaky, sneaky. Like a ninja. h34r:


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Is it weird that I'm looking forward to giving the Annie all my time again? Had to neglect them lately due to needing to get as much headtime with the LCD2 before I send them out to the next person, but I snuck in a few listens, and I can't help but smile.


 
   
  Stop it!!
   
  I can't take all the warm positive feelings about the anniversary.  I wants them, I needs them.
   
  I'm teeter tottering on going ahead and buying them.
   
  Don't push meeee!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mwahahaha. :veryevil:

I'd still hold out a few weeks. I will send them to you first! But only if I somehow manage to keep the HE-400 or snag something new like the X1 (which I'm starting to lose hope for). I'm half tempted on selling the HE-400 and maxing out my paypal to get some LCD2 with vegan pads and calling it quits. HALF tempted. Or if some last version D7000s show up on for the sale section for like $600 or so, I would spring for them and buy some lawton leather pads, if only because leather feels better than pleather.


----------



## kellte2

to all the Mixamp 2013 owners:
   
  Astro released a firmware update last week and not only has the noise-gate been improved for mic use, but the EQ presets are better.  Sports preset is out completely (it basically just sounded like an echo chamber, so good riddance) and the Core preset is far more neutral than it was before.  Definitely a very good firmware update.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Mwahahaha. :veryevil:
> 
> I'd still hold out a few weeks. I will send them to you first!




Yeah, but... What if, once he has them in his hands, he starts singing Rick Askey's famous song to them? "Never gonna give you up, never gonna set you down, never gonna run around and desert you..."
Also, about calling it quits... You're too young to retire!

Chico/gollum,
Did you also notice they have nice blue accents? And that their improved comfort may allow you to enjoy them longer each day? Just a few thoughts


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nice. I wish I would have held on to it. The sports preset really was friggin' horrible, and the core preset had that warmth+bass tip which made them not exactly linear (though pleasing).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone want my pair of HE-400s for $300? Yup. Just remember, the Hifiman branding and L/R markers on the headphone are gone, so it looks 'protoype-ish'. The cables have the L/R markers though.
> 
> Obviously, not selling them for a few weeks as Evs and Calpis need their turns. Cal, if you can, please hold them for me until I sell them.


 
   
  That is seriously tempting, especially for a set of headphones at that price that's relatively forgiving of amplification.
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm officially a stax convert now. Haven't had much gaming time, but I've officially gone crazy with electrets and electrostats. Got a pair of Numark ES701's which lead to SR 34's which lead to SR 80's with SRD-6, which finally lead to SR Lambda with SRD-7. Thx for killing my wallet, lol.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Sorry about your wallet!
   
  I didn't know you went through that many electrostatic sets already, heh. I'm actually curious as to how the electret and pre-Lambda electrostatic models hold up to the SR-Lambda.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the best starting point, if money permits, is something like the DT880. Very balanced, with a slight tip towards bass and treble (I stress slight). Not perfectly neutral, but colored in an agreeable way. Not sure on it's competitive gaming nature (I really need to re-visit the DT880 in higher impedances, as I feel I may like them a bit more than waaaay back when I owned them).
> 
> Just a shame the price has gone up now, and only the DT880 Pro is in a logical price range. For the price the Premiums go for, I would just save the extra money for a K702 Anniversary, really.


 
   
  So it's a dynamic HE-400? Might have to give it an audition, if the bass and treble emphasis is as slight as you say.
   
  Funny thing is, the DT880 was poised to be my post-AD700 headphone after all that I had read, until I saw that $250 Stax Lambda + SRD-7/SB deal over a year ago. I feel spoiled now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, the HE-400's bass and treble are quite a bit more emphasized. I mean the HE-400's bass isn't exactly emphasized in the same sense as a dynamic headphone would tend to be, but is potent in that planar magnetic way (same with the LCD2). Planar bass is so different from dynamic bass in that it doesn't hamper other frequencies in the same manner. The DT880 has a quick, unobtrusive bass, just very slightly north of neutral. Very good, natural bass, but not in the same way as the HE-400. It will sound bass light in direct comparison.

Headamp is actually gonna loan out some new Stax headphones with the amp needed to power them, and I'm gonna be very quick to sign up as soon as it's available.


----------



## Evshrug

Ironically, Mad's "care package" will arrive here around the same time as I'll have the chance to audition some stuff from another local head-fi'er, such as the DT880, HD650, and A1000x. He also has an LCD 2 that's staying at home, lol. Maybe if we become friends, I'll hear those some day too.

OT: I had orientation today as a Wendy's shift manager. After a ton of paperwork and videos, it's nice to come home and semi-nap while listening to my Q's and the tube amp. It sounds detailed and yet forgiving after concentrating on reviewing the E12.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I literally have to unplug both my USB signal going to the Compass 2 as well as the RCA out going to my laptop speakers for it to be quiet. I get hum if I plug either one in when using the Line In.





>


 
  Okay cool you just saved me about $600. Or not, now I am thinking I can get an amp to compliment my Maverick and just use it as a dac. Audio-GD is definitely on that list with the SA-31 and some other choices. Going tube would be nice I know that is what Mal did with his Maverick to LD to Emotiva. The thought of tube rolling scares the ever loving crap out of me.
   
  Thanks again MLE I will try unplugging some stuff tonight.


----------



## chicolom

I'm all for getting the best x70x I can get.  I know I always say I love the Q701 bass, and I do, but I'm not opposed to _a little extra bass_.  And the nice headband and all that is just icing on the cake. 
   
  I'm_ am _opposed to a smaller soundstage though.  If it's like going from an old x70x to the Q701, where it might seem slightly smaller because the sounds are thicker and weighter but is essentially the same - then I'm OK with that. 
   
  But if it the bass came at a cost, and they sacrificed the soundstage to muscle in more bass I'm not sure about that.  I'm not sure how those non-angled pads affect things.  So far no one has said anything like that though.  Everyone has said the soundstage is basically the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think it's just as you think. The soundstage seems smaller because notes are thicker and more rounded off. While I'm not gonna say that is exactly the case, I still feel the Annie to have a very large soundstage.


----------



## Makiah S

hmm, yea I'm with you. I like a BIG [er] sound stage. My Xb 700's [hate all you want] have great sound stage because well they are HUGE, and the pads are well HUGE! So natrually I loved the dt 880's sound stage and hated the HD 25-1 II... HATED IT. 
   
  I might have to try a Q701 and see how I enjoys it! As much as I have disregard for Sennhesier [because it's so popular] I also need to try the HD 650... and stop hating on it q.q. At least the HD 650 LOOKS nice, I always though the HD 600 [which is hideous I think] was the 650.... stupid me
   
  STILL BUYING DT 990 TOMMOROW . Just w8ing for the Sales rep I'm chattin wid to cut me a deal e.e... I might have to call her up!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now that I've had a taste of the LCD-2, I'm wondering how the Mad Dog by Mr. Speakers (modified Fostex T50RP) sounds like. The frequency curve is very, very similar to the LCD2, and people have labeled it the poor man's LCD2. For $300... I think it warrants a listen...

The main difference is that the Mad Dogs are fully closed, undoubtedly changing the soundstage compared to the LCD2.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Now that I've had a taste of the LCD-2, I'm wondering how the Mad Dog by Mr. Speakers (modified Fostex T50RP) sounds like. The frequency curve is very, very similar to the LCD2, and people have labeled it the poor man's LCD2. For $300... I think it warrants a listen...
> 
> The main difference is that the Mad Dogs are fully closed, undoubtedly changing the soundstage compared to the LCD2.


 
  eww yea, I would never compare closed to open... Closed Can bass and open can are [to my ears] totally different... I prefer open... still that is a good point and who doesn't want a T50RP mod xD


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> "EACH SCORE IS *REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS*, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO."
> 
> That's the reason ^
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's kind of what I was getting at, tho I guess I wasn't very clear... MLE purposely chose these general categories to score them in no? (making it useful for general purposes and/or gaming)
   
  He chose not to purposely map more specific sound characteristics and rank them against each other, unlike guides like joker's that are supposed to be much more of an A/B comparison in much more specific qualities. Though even w/joker's scoring, the overall scores say nothing about specific sound signature really... (so he just ends up doing a lot of direct comparisons for people from memory and notes anyway, heh)
   
  If MLE still had every single one of those headphones (or a lot of 'em) he might've gone w/a different ranking scheme.
   
  In a way his approach might even be more helpful for someone that already knows what they want (better indication of overall character than quality)... Only problem is that a lot of the people that end up referencing guides like this are doing so because they don't have the ability to test a very wide variety of headphones, so they focus on the numbers either way regardless of what the first line of the thread says. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There's no easy solution to that if you can't travel to somewhere w/better stocked stores nor order a bunch of expensive stuff to then return most of it... I guess the next best thing would be like grabbing a bunch of cheaper quasi-equivalents, e.g. Superlux 681, CAL, JVC RX700, etc. in order to figure out what ya like.
   
  Plus many of us aren't married to one specific sound signature and may even want to seek out multiple headphones/sounds, which just complicates the hell out of everything.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Plus many of us aren't married to one specific sound signature and may even want to seek out multiple headphones/sounds, which just complicates the hell out of everything.


 
  I know don't even mention it :/, I'm considering the Mad Dogs for portable use [so long as the isolate half decently] I like DARK cans for my portable EDM... but open bass cans at home always! 
   
  Still I like 2 sound sigs so far... DARK/warm and CLEAN/Bright


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just a shame the price has gone up now, and only the DT880 Pro is in a logical price range. For the price the Premiums go for, I would just save the extra money for a K702 Anniversary, really.


 
   
  Their price seems to jump up and down to a more abnormal beat than anything else out there ('cept maybe the HD 600/650?)... I had old Camelcamelcamel price alerts still active this past holiday season and I saw the Premium 250/600 ohm versions on Amazon drop down to $230-250 several times. I think there was a $350 deal on HD 650's too.
   
  I've been very happy w/my DT 880 Premiums (250), for someone that's starting out I think they're worth seeking out if you aren't in a hurry to find them at a good price (and you're investing in a half decent amp)... Almost everything else I end up looking at now seems to make more tradeoffs than I'm willing to take in order to gain any substantial improvements, hrm.
   
  I need to seek out a high end store in the Baltimore/Washington DC the next time I travel there (or a fellow Head Fi'er w/a nice collection!).
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ironically, Mad's "care package" will arrive here around the same time as I'll have the chance to audition some stuff from another local head-fi'er, such as the DT880, HD650, and A1000x. He also has an LCD 2 that's staying at home, lol. Maybe if we become friends, I'll hear those some day too.


 
   
  That should be fun... So you're basically taking MLE's HE-400 on a playdate w/a bunch of other cans? Just make sure they don't bite each other!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I've been very happy w/my DT 880 Premiums (250), for someone that's starting out I think they're worth seeking out if you aren't in a hurry to find them at a good price (and you're investing in a half decent amp)... Almost everything else I end up looking at now seems to make more tradeoffs than I'm willing to take in order to gain any substantial improvements, hrm.


 
  Same, I still want the Dt 880 Pre 600ohms AND the pro 250. As the pro 250 is a VERY linear and nice refrance can. Still I'd like the extra warmth of the 600 ohm version...
   
  Might bite on a Dt 770 LE version


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Sorry about your wallet!
> 
> I didn't know you went through that many electrostatic sets already, heh. I'm actually curious as to how the electret and pre-Lambda electrostatic models hold up to the SR-Lambda.


 
   
  Lol, I purchased the Numark's a little over a month ago for dirt cheap. Then I gave up on finding a decent pair of lambas and snagged the SR30's last week, the next day I saw the SR80's withSRD6 and figured I would grab them if nothing else for the adapter in the future, and sell the SR30's, SR80's and SRD4 adapter as a package. Then, on friday a pair of Lambdas with SRD7 popped up Buy it Now and I jumped on them, lol. Totally loving them though.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Lol, I purchased the Numark's a little over a month ago for dirt cheap. Then I gave up on finding a decent pair of lambas and snagged the SR30's last week, the next day I saw the SR80's withSRD6 and figured I would grab them if nothing else for the adapter in the future, and sell the SR30's, SR80's and SRD4 adapter as a package. Then, on friday a pair of Lambdas with SRD7 popped up Buy it Now and I jumped on them, lol. Totally loving them though.
> 
> -Erik


 
  bleh, yea I hear recommendations for the Lamabadas rather often... MLE SELL ME A PAIR OF DT 990 PRO 250s xD I just lost my orignal seller :[
   
  still though... I'm still at a dead end with getting an Odac as well <.<. Cmon Head Fi'rs SELL ME UR STUFF xd


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Now that I've had a taste of the LCD-2, I'm wondering how the Mad Dog by Mr. Speakers (modified Fostex T50RP) sounds like. The frequency curve is very, very similar to the LCD2, and people have labeled it the poor man's LCD2. For $300... I think it warrants a listen...
> 
> The main difference is that the Mad Dogs are fully closed, undoubtedly changing the soundstage compared to the LCD2.


 
   
  I've been toying around with the idea of picking up the Mad Dogs with the new alpha pads once I get my tax return in and pay for the honeymoon transportation. I'd be willing to send them your way for a review if I do. From what I hear, the alpha pads are pretty impressive even for people who are big fans of velours. I'm looking for a great sounding closed set. I need some good isolation and for $300 I've been leaning towards them.


----------



## FlobHobNob

This is probably an incredibly noob question but is there anyway I can use my dt770's for my xbox? If someone could help me I'd greatly appreciate it.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> to all the Mixamp 2013 owners:
> 
> Astro released a firmware update last week and not only has the noise-gate been improved for mic use, but the EQ presets are better.  Sports preset is out completely (it basically just sounded like an echo chamber, so good riddance) and the Core preset is far more neutral than it was before.  Definitely a very good firmware update.


 
  I was going to post this a week ago when the firmware was released, but didnt, simply because I wasn't too impressed. the new pro eq setting sounds horrendous to me, almost like the sports setting. Sounds like they tried to mimick an open sounding headset with it. Sounds too artificial, and doesn't bring out the finer details. Core on the other hand, sounds great. 
   
  the firmware also brought some iffy sounding voice comms. Astro still has work to do.
   
  not trying to contradict your post, just adding my thoughts


----------



## Hailin

I think I might be the only person who frequents here with the Mad Dogs/Alpha Dogs.
  And... they are wonderful. I haven't used them for gaming for any length of time though. Not long enough to give them a fair assessment.
  All I know is I am not returning mine, and I am incredibly difficult to please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I mean I returned the Annies and HE400 for crying out loud so what kind of sick crack head could I be.


----------



## ruuku

flobhobnob said:


> This is probably an incredibly noob question but is there anyway I can use my dt770's for my xbox? If someone could help me I'd greatly appreciate it.



Short answer: 1st post covers most of the ways you can hook up a pair of phones to an xbox. 

Longer answer: Depends on what you want out of the audio. If your looking for plain-jane stereo, then you're in the wrong thread, and just plug them into an amp connected to the tv (or directly into the tv.) 
If you want surround then you're going to have to invest a little more and get a decoder of some sort. These come in many shapes and sizes, from the diminutive DSS to a full on HT receiver. Basically I would suggest reading the first post thoroughly and then come back and seek clarification on parts that are unclear. If/When you do come back try and have a budget in mind (then triple it...lol), some clear and reasonable expectations or desires on what kind of sound you're looking for, what equipment you already have, and maybe what you're looking to buy. While the decoders don't impact sound signature quite like changing 'phones, there are subtle differences and nuances.


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote:


axelcloris said:


> I need some good isolation and for $300 I've been leaning towards them.


 
   
  Quote: 





mshenay said:


> I know don't even mention it :/, I'm considering the Mad Dogs for portable use [so long as the isolate half decently]


 
   
  The isolation on the Alpha pads is amazing. To put it into perspective, I was up at night with a fussy baby, trying to get her to sleep. Any noise would wake here up. In a totally quiet room with her, I was able to turn up the volume almost to the point of pain and she never flinched. 
  Sadly I made a mistake. I turned them down to a reasonable volume and was listening to some tracks when I lifted up one ear cup to scratch my ear. Huge mistake. She instantly blew up. 
  Point is. Isolation is great on the Mad Dogs w/ Alphas


----------



## pervysage

Hey guys, new member here. I was looking to upgrade my gaming setup (Xbox 360 and PC hooked up to a computer monitor) with some new headphones. Currently I am running some Turtle Beach PX5's. They are real convenient and everything being wireless but obviously aren't the greatest for sound quality.

After reading your post I have been looking at the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Editions. I know they would blow away my Beaches SQ wise but would they be a big step up for competitive gaming?

Also I am usually using voice chat on Xbox 360 a lot so I'm thinking I would need an amp to drive them properly.

I also want to use the headphones for music listening on both my PC rig and maybe portable devices once in a while.

So far, after a little research, I was thinking of purchasing the following setup:
- AKG K702 65th Annie's
- Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 Edition
- Antlion Modmic for my Xbox
- Fiio E17 maybe even combined with the Fiio E9K Desktop Amplifier.

What do you think? Any changes I should make, or other things I will be needing?

Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a damn good setup right there. The E17 isn't necessary outside of non-gaming use, so only get it if you feel like you're gonna be using the headphones for music, etc.

Competitive-wise, you don't need much outside of bare essentials like the HD555/AD700. You're paying for refinement, all around uses, and a higher level of quality overall. If competitive play is top priority, you do not need to spend so much to achieve it. Basically anything I'd rate at like a 7.5/8 or more would be fine. An 8 isn't gonna be blown away by a 10. They both will soundwhore fine.


----------



## Impulse

Damn you all, now I'm interested in the Mad Dogs, although having looked into them they actually seem kind of ideal for my next pair, more so than what I had been looking at... Might just end up saving some money with them.

I kinda ignored all the Fostex T50RP mods for a while but the MD do seem like a decent value. They seem somewhat more neutral than the HE-400, potentially more comfortable, and the simple single entry removable cable's a nice bonus IMO.

I had sorta given up on finding a higher end full size closed headphone (within budget) that I liked but the MDs might just do the trick, specially if the claims about a decent sound stage are accurate.




axelcloris said:


> From what I hear, the alpha pads are pretty impressive even for people who are big fans of velours. I'm looking for a great sounding closed set. I need some good isolation and for $300 I've been leaning towards them.




What have you read about them from people that favor velours?

This is the one thing I'm hesitant about, given what he charges for the pads by themselves I imagine they're very high quality and account for a good deal of the mod/sound; but I'm concerned about using them in the humid Puerto Rico weather.

I get on fine with my M-80's protein leather pads but I imagine being on-ears there's a big difference.




hailin said:


> I think I might be the only person who frequents here with the Mad Dogs/Alpha Dogs.
> And... they are wonderful. I haven't used them for gaming for any length of time though. Not long enough to give them a fair assessment.
> All I know is I am not returning mine, and I am incredibly difficult to please.
> 
> ...




How would you characterize them compared to the HE-400 or your Beyers? I don't necessarily need an expansive sound stage, I'd probably use them more for TV/movies/some music and I'd keep my Beyers for gaming/music...

We can talk in PM if this is too OT for the thread, but given how few recommendations there usually are for mid range closed gaming headphones I figure it's relevant.

I'm thinking of either ordering them outright, or waiting a bit until I have more spare time and then order them along with the HE-400 so I can compare them myself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually had the MD in the shopping cart. VERY close to submitting that payment. But I know that money is better saved up for a Denon D7000 or X1. I already have a very linear headphone in the Annie. Don't need another one.


----------



## pervysage

mad lust envy said:


> That's a damn good setup right there. The E17 isn't necessary outside of non-gaming use, so only get it if you feel like you're gonna be using the headphones for music, etc.
> 
> Competitive-wise, you don't need much outside of bare essentials like the HD555/AD700. You're paying for refinement, all around uses, and a higher level of quality overall. If competitive play is top priority, you do not need to spend so much to achieve it. Basically anything I'd rate at like a 7.5/8 or more would be fine. An 8 isn't gonna be blown away by a 10. They both will soundwhore fine.




So let's say I did decide to get the Annie's, would I need an additional amp on top of the Mixamp if I wanted to use voice chat? I thought I read earlier that they are fine for gaming alone but once you mix in voice chat, they might need some amping.

But the setup won't be strictly for competitive use. I want to use the headphones for music, movies etc as well.

And when using the headphones with my PC and wanting to get the most out of them, I would need the DAC in the E17... Not just a desktop amp like the E9K?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pervysage said:


> So let's say I did decide to get the Annie's, would I need an additional amp on top of the Mixamp if I wanted to use voice chat?



*The Annie is easier to power than the other AKGs, so maybe not. I admittedly haven't realy tested this out.*



> I thought I read earlier that they are fine for gaming alone but once you mix in voice chat, they might need some amping.


 *True for the older models. The Annie might be more passable without an amp. I'd still recommend an amp as those drivers sure love power.*



> But the setup won't be strictly for competitive use. I want to use the headphones for music, movies etc as well.




*Okay, then yes, that should be just fine.*



> And when using the headphones with my PC and wanting to get the most out of them, I would need the DAC in the E17... Not just a desktop amp like the E9K?




*Correct.*


----------



## Impulse

Are you getting both the E9K & E17? You can run the E9K off integrated motherboard audio (yuck) or a PC sound card if you already have one, some sound cards are actually pretty decent DACs so that's an alternative to the E17...

If you want a portable DAC/amp for laptop use or whatever then the E17 is a nice choice and it pairs nicely with the E9K, but if the E17's portable amp or extra inputs aren't a factor then I think you can get a comparable DAC for much less, or a better desktop one for about the same (either paired with the E9K amp).

Or you could just opt for the E17 by itself, no clue how capable it is with AKGs tho.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The good thing about the E17 is that it has optical/coaxial input. Most DACs in the price range are only USB. If you don't mind USB only, I'd suggest skipping the E17 and getting the ODAC. That is one hell of a DAC. The E17 is versatile as for the same price as the ODAC, you get a good dac, as well as a good portable amp. If you don't see yourself needing a portable amp on top of a desktop amp, I suggest the ODAC over the E17, easily.


----------



## Impulse

Fiio prices have been creeping up, unless Amazon prices are just inflated.

For the combined price of the E17/E9K you can almost get something like a Leckerton UHA-6S... Just as portable as the E17, also has optical in (IIRC), much better DAC, nice volume knob, possibly not quite as potent an amp as the E9 but more capable than the E17, dunno... Really depends on what you need.

If portability isn't a big factor there's definitely better DACs for the money, tho as MLE said, the E17 doubles as a decent amp in it's own right. There's definitely better DACs for similar or less $ tho (ODAC, Modi, Xonar cards, etc.).

Edit: Fixed, thanks MLE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Modi, not Magni. 

Time to pack up the LCD-2 to ship out to the next person. Our time was short, but the memory of the sweet, sweet music you sang gently into my ears will never be forgotten!


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Fiio prices have been creeping up, unless Amazon prices are just inflated.
> 
> For the combined price of the E17/E9K you can almost get something like a Leckerton UHA-6S... Just as portable as the E17, also has optical in (IIRC), much better DAC, nice volume knob, possibly not quite as potent an amp as the E9 but more capable than the E17, dunno... Really depends on what you need.
> 
> If portability isn't a big factor there's definitely better DACs for the money, tho as MLE said, the E17 doubles as a decent amp in it's own right. There's definitely better DACs for similar or less $ tho (ODAC, Magni, Xonar cards, etc.).


 
   
  Also keep in mind that the E18 will come out eventually. Not that it means very much because there isn't a lot of information on it, or even an approximate release date that I can find, but its something to think about if you aren't looking to buy at this exact moment.


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Modi, not Magni.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   





 Never enough time when its borrowed. 
   
  Looking forward to trying a pair for myself soon to compare against the Mad Dogs. I know the LCD-2 will best the MDs, but I'd like to see how much value I really got from my purchase.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> I actually had the MD in the shopping cart. VERY close to submitting that payment. But I know that money is better saved up for a Denon D7000 or X1. I already have a very linear headphone in the Annie. Don't need another one.




Hmm, I wonder if i I'd end up feeling similarly about them and my DT 880... I don't think the MD are bright at all tho, and should have a little bass emphasis, so it should be kind of the opposite even if they're both relatively neutral compared to a DT 990 or what have you...

Philips/Funai seriously don't wanna sell any X1's huh, where the heck are they? How long have they been available in Europe now? Sigh... I keep checking Inner Fidelity's measurements page every few days hoping Tyll's added them in stealth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Keep us updated. I heard the MDs sound very much like the LCD2, and if that's true... I might have to spring for some. 

It's funny though, I let my one of my best friends listen to both the Annie and LCD2 for a few hours. Without telling him how much the LCD2 cost, or anything about them, I asked them which he preferred. He told me he'd take the Annie every single time. He felt the LCD2 sounded too closed in and too thick. He told me he liked the clarity and openness of the Annie, and it sounded more realistic and nautral to him.

This is coming from someone who knows next to nothing about headphones (he owns the KSC35 and Audio Technica ES7 based on my recommendations). He was able to identify the most well known LCD2 weaknesses like a damn pro. I was like 'LOLWUT?'. I told him they cost near $1000, and he was like, it's extremely overpriced considering how amazing the Annie sounded next to them. I won't argue with him, as there is clearly many things the Annie does better. Bass and mid intimacy belong to the LCD2, but the Annie does both of these things well to begin with.

So the LCD2 is definitely not for everyone. He was mostly surpised by how much the LCD2 leaks compared to the Annie, while still sounding closed in. He truly surprised me with these impressions, as I would have never thought a rookie would understand such things.


----------



## Impulse

Hah, your friend knows what he likes, and he got to try out two very different specimens... So he's pretty much better off already than half the posters on Head Fi.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Fiio prices have been creeping up, unless Amazon prices are just inflated.
> 
> For the combined price of the E17/E9K you can almost get something like a Leckerton UHA-6S... Just as portable as the E17, also has optical in (IIRC), much better DAC, nice volume knob, possibly not quite as potent an amp as the E9 but more capable than the E17, dunno... Really depends on what you need.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The good thing about the E17 is that it has optical/coaxial input. Most DACs in the price range are only USB. If you don't mind USB only, I'd suggest skipping the E17 and getting the ODAC. That is one hell of a DAC. The E17 is versatile as for the same price as the ODAC, you get a good dac, as well as a good portable amp. If you don't see yourself needing a portable amp on top of a desktop amp, I suggest the ODAC over the E17, easily.


 
   
  Portability actually isn't a big factor. I thought it would be a nice option to have... but now that I think about it, 99% of the time I will be using the headphones with my Xbox (with the Mixamp Pro) or PC.
   
  So if portability isn't needed, what amp/DAC would you guys suggest for my purposes and would drive the Annies nicely?  Both my Xbox and PC are pretty much beside each other and I have a desktop setup..


----------



## Hailin

I would still like to hear the LCD2 or 3, but the MDs have pretty much put that need from a I NEED LCD2s to eh if I hear them I hear them. 
   
  Next on my list is a T1. That is one headphone that the NEED to hear is still very high. 
   
  If I was to find a AD900x for a good price I would consider that as well, just to hear the AT house sound. It seems to be the sweet spot in this new generation. The 700x isn't as detailed/revealing and the price isn't that much cheaper, and the 1000x/2000x are a totally different breed of headphone.
   
  With my comfort issues with so many headphones I have lost interest in the X1 as well. I just don't know if it would fit my head without bothering me in some way.
   
  Impluse I am hoping to get a break at work today so I can pm you.


----------



## Impulse

pervysage said:


> Portability actually isn't a big factor. I thought it would be a nice option to have... but now that I think about it, 99% of the time I will be using the headphones with my Xbox (with the Mixamp Pro) or PC.
> 
> So if portability isn't needed, what amp/DAC would you guys suggest for my purposes and would drive the Annies nicely?  Both my Xbox and PC are pretty much beside each other and I have a desktop setup..




The Modi/Magni stack is cheaper than the E17+E9K and the Magni's a bit more capable or versatile as an amp (lower output impedance etc.). They're more focused/streamlined and less feature laden, you're paying strictly for the core DAC/amp functionality without bass boost options, portability, extra inputs, etc.

What's your budget? There's the ODAC/O2 too, slightly more expensive, not sure how the ODAC compares to the Modi... If you're trying to keep costs down I think you could easily opt for a $50 Xonar DG/DGX card and pair it with a Magni or O2 without missing much. (which would also get you Dolby Headphone for PC games)

In a pinch I believe you could even run the Mixamp as a DAC off the PC, tho it's far from the best solution. I believe the O2 has all the connections in the front so it might be friendlier if you're often gonna be switching the amp around from the Mixamp to the PC (whether to a DAC or internal card) and vice versa, the Fiio units would also give you more inputs.


----------



## Impulse

hailin said:


> With my comfort issues with so many headphones I have lost interest in the X1 as well. I just don't know if it would fit my head without bothering me in some way.
> 
> Impluse I am hoping to get a break at work today so I can pm you.




Cool man, no hurry, I appreciate it.

All the talk of QC issues and variance kinda scared me off Beyer's new lineup... I think a lot of people are curious about the X1 tho, it just looks so freaking nice and well built (non removable pads aside), what's the hold up Philips?!

Mad Dogs look like some sorta tank commander / Mad Max headset... But at least it sounds like they're very comfortable!


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





impulse said:


> The Modi/Magni stack is cheaper than the E17+E9K and the Magni's a bit more capable or versatile as an amp (lower output impedance etc.). They're more focused/streamlined and less feature laden, you're paying strictly for the core DAC/amp functionality without bass boost options, portability, extra inputs, etc.
> 
> What's your budget? There's the ODAC/O2 too, slightly more expensive, not sure how the ODAC compares to the Modi... If you're trying to keep costs down I think you could easily opt for a $50 Xonar DG/DGX card and pair it with a Magni or O2 without missing much. (which would also get you Dolby Headphone for PC games)
> 
> In a pinch I believe you could even run the Mixamp as a DAC off the PC, tho it's far from the best solution. I believe the O2 has all the connections in the front so it might be friendlier if you're often gonna be switching the amp around from the Mixamp to the PC (whether to a DAC or internal card) and vice versa, the Fiio units would also give you more inputs.


 
   
  So I see that there is the mini-USB connector on the back of the ODAC/02 combo and then a Line In on the front of it. So that means I'll be able to have the PC connected via the USB, and the Mixamp connected to the Line In?
   
  Or would I be unplugging things every time I wanted to switch between PC use and console gaming with the Mixamp?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





ckc4043 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000CMS0XU/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
> 
> 
> [size=medium] Audio Technica ATH-AD700 Open-air Dynamic Audiophile Headphones[/size]
> Good condition to like new condition $60.55-$64


 
   
  In case anyone didn't see this in the deals thread. There are still quite a few left.


----------



## smogsy

i have a question from a non audiophile (or soon to become one)
   
   you have mid high lows
   
  Singers voice what are they classed as? or are part of the mid high low depending on how they sing?
   
  just curosity


----------



## TMRaven

No matter how they sing, human vocals are centered within the midrange, just as most other instruments are, they have fundamental tones centered from 100-1khz and overtones that can go to 6-8khz and sometimes 10khz.
   
  This is a great resource:
   
  http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


----------



## I95North

Hey MLE i have not been on here in awhile and have not read but skimmed over the back posts because,  "IT'S JUST TOO MUCH TO READ".. Just curious how did that receiver work out for you?? Does it have more than plenty of power for all your headphone needs just from the headphones out jack and lastly how does that dolby headphone decorder inside the receiver compair to the mixamp pro variants..
   
  "any year" ?? What's the real differences if any??


----------



## Evshrug

I never thought I would experience such... luxury.





Fullsized ear speakers oooooooooooh yeah baby! Am I allowed to say porn?


The next few days should be VERY interesting...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rogue, directional cues from headphones I rate about 7.5 and up won't be much different. The only differences worth nothing are tonal balance and soundstage which isn't gonna be a humongous factor once you get to performance this good.

The 990s are plenty detailed as is. The K701 rates higher because there is less bass, so it puts easier focus in details. Easier focus =/= more details.

As for my receiver, I do find it to have ample power for the headphones I have used, as well as a ton of gain/volume. The dolby processing is identical to the Mixamp, and has no hiss. If you can score a receiver for a good price, this will take care of amp/dac/gaming needs. Just no voice chat.

The only thing to keep in mind is that receivers tend to have really high output impedance which won't match with most standard headphones. Planars and the AkGs K70x and Qs wont get affected much, but other lower impedance headphones will.


----------



## Evshrug

By the way Mad, I brought your gear inside RIGHT as the mailman dropped it off. So nothing was left out in the cold  I don't really have time to audition the HE's or ODAC tonight though... Had stuff to do between mail arrival and now, when I should sleep before an early morning.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didn't see your last post until now. The Q701 looks so pretty in pics. Nice headband mod.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I never thought I would experience such... luxury.


 
   
   
  Very few ever get to experience the luxury of the parts express mini stereo headphones...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, Chico. Lol.


----------



## Impulse

Nice threesome Evshrug... 




pervysage said:


> So I see that there is the mini-USB connector on the back of the ODAC/02 combo and then a Line In on the front of it. So that means I'll be able to have the PC connected via the USB, and the Mixamp connected to the Line In?
> 
> Or would I be unplugging things every time I wanted to switch between PC use and console gaming with the Mixamp?




The computer communicates with the DAC via USB and the DAC feeds the amp over RCA, 1 output on the former and one input on the latter (plus the headphone out, duh)... So yeah, you'd be unplugging stuff and whatnot. That's why I mentioned that the O2's front ports might be friendlier in that regard, or the E17/E9K's multiple input/outputs.




tmraven said:


> No matter how they sing, human vocals are centered within the midrange, just as most other instruments are, they have fundamental tones centered from 100-1khz and overtones that can go to 6-8khz and sometimes 10khz.




I'm sure an opera singer covers more of that range than someone like say, Taylor Swift?  Not that I have much experience with opera (and I plead the fifth on Taylor Swift).


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Rogue, directional cues from headphones I rate about 7.5 and up won't be much different. The only differences worth nothing are tonal balance and soundstage which isn't gonna be a humongous factor once you get to performance this good.
> 
> The 990s are plenty detailed as is. The K701 rates higher because there is less bass, so it puts easier focus in details. Easier focus =/= more details.


 
   
  It sounds like, in terms of competitive gaming and directional audio, I can't really go wrong with either one of them when it comes to a more comfortable alternative to the AD700. I think I may continue to eyeball the K702 for right now. The bonus check can't come soon enough.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





impulse said:


> The computer communicates with the DAC via USB and the DAC feeds the amp over RCA, 1 output on the former and one input on the latter (plus the headphone out, duh)... So yeah, you'd be unplugging stuff and whatnot. That's why I mentioned that the O2's front ports might be friendlier in that regard, or the E17/E9K's multiple input/outputs.


 
   
  Yeah... that kind of rules out the O2+ODAC.
   
  So there wouldn't be any unplugging wires all the time with the E17/E9K combo? That sounds better to me... and the E17/E9K would be better for customization such as bass boost, right? Since the O2+ODAC is meant to be just a neutral amp.
   
  Are there any other AMP/DAC's out there I should consider that also have multiple inputs/outputs and no need for unplugging stuff to go back and forth?
   
  I'm about to pull the trigger on the Annies. I really like the look of them compared to other sets (I know looks aren't everything) but they seem to be really comfortable as well. And from reading MLE's review, they seem to be real good for an "all arounder" headset and using it for different purposes.


----------



## calpis

Welp, alright, finally caught up with like 200 posts.
   
  @MLE, yea, I'll have her keep me busy while you're trying to pawn her off 
   
  Haven't been hanging around lately because another hobby of mine has been taking away all my attention and money. I could've bought a set of Annies by now or some MadDogs, guess they'll have to wait. Haven't even been playing any games that much for the past month. I was going to pick up the limited edition MGR:Revengeance but I'll have to settle with waiting till the regular edition goes on sale. I did manage to pick up a pair of Grado SR60's though for a ridiculously cheap price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ooh, how are they? Always wanted to try the 60i or 80i, as they use softies stock.

BTW, once I hit 10,000 posts, I'll no longer be using this account in favor of something simpler and new. I'll only log in to update the first post, and/or when buying/selling stuff.

Haven't thought of a name. I was know as Shin, Chaos Zero, and actually a million other names on my other forums. Raven Crimson as well, but we already have a Raven on Head-fi.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ooh, how are they? Always wanted to try the 60i or 80i, as they use softies stock.
> 
> BTW, once I hit 10,000 posts, I'll no longer be using this account in favor of something simpler and new. I'll only log in to update the first post, and/or when buying/selling stuff.
> 
> Haven't thought of a name. I was know as Shin, Chaos Zero, and actually a million other names on my other forums. Raven Crimson as well, but we already have a Raven on Head-fi.


 
   
  I like them. No problem with comfort or anything. I do have the older non "i" version so the cord is way too long to use them away from the desktop. Sound is pretty much what everyone says, great for rock and metal and okay for anything else.  Soundstage is a bit smaller than what I'm used to and it leaks like a mother. Treble is a little hot but not piercing (to me). Guitars sound awesome on these.Vocals are in your face, it's been awhile since I've heard something so upfront with it.
   
  All that being said, I really really want to try the SR225i.
   
  Name suggestion, Burning Fighting Fighter


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I love that anime.

I'm afraid of higher tier Grados because of their uncomfortable pads.


----------



## Kamakahah

calpis said:


> Name suggestion, Burning Fighting Fighter




Name suggestion2: Burning Pudding Princess


----------



## roguegeek

As far as closed-back headphones go, I see the D7000 and DT770 appear on the Top Choices list. The D7000 looks to be very hard to obtain and the price is very much a premium. Does anyone have any other closed-back headphones with a decent soundstage that can be used for a more general use or should I generally look at the DT770 for this? I'd love to see MLE review the K550 since it looks like a lot of people are touting its impressive soundstage for a closed-back can.


----------



## ruuku

I believe he sampled then in a bb a while back and did not think too highly of them. I wouldn't expect a review from MLE on the k550 any time soon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, they didn't do a thing for me. I'll hold off on impressions as it wasn't in a controlled environment, but I've been impressed by headphones in worse situations. I found the HD558 favorable, even though it's open in a noisy environment.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Very few ever get to experience the luxury of the parts express mini stereo headphones...



I don't think you even opened the package... So maybe I'll be first? 



mad lust envy said:


> Ooh, how are they? Always wanted to try the 60i or 80i, as they use softies stock.
> 
> BTW, once I hit 10,000 posts, I'll no longer be using this account in favor of something simpler and new. I'll only log in to update the first post, and/or when buying/selling stuff.
> 
> Haven't thought of a name. I was know as Shin, Chaos Zero, and actually a million other names on my other forums. Raven Crimson as well, but we already have a Raven on Head-fi.




Why change your name? It isn't directly equivalent, but it reminds me of the three stages of Rampancy:
Melancholy, Anger, and Jealousy.
http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/Rampancy

Your current name would fit if you switched to Envy Mad Lust, or would Lust Mad Envy fit better? Anyway, I don't see why you should change your name, you have good reputation here, and many people won't follow a change. Are you just hoping to avoid dealing with PM spam? What if more companies like Skullcandy contact you through your account?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd still keep my MLE account, I just dont wanna go over 10000, lol. OCD...


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I'm sure an opera singer covers more of that range than someone like say, Taylor Swift?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   

   
  Yes, well trained ones for sure can reach higher and lower for sure.  At the end of the day it's still centered in midrange with harmonics in upper mids, lower treble.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd still keep my MLE account, I just dont wanna go over 10000, lol. OCD...


 
  Well, if OCD is the only reason, maybe your new account should just be literally "MLE."
   
  I'm about to sample the care package! I'm going to (try) connecting the ObjectiveDAC to my computer first and listening through my Q701 and tube amp first, to get a baseline on that piece, then add the HE-400 after a half hour or something 
  EXCITEMENT!!
   
   
  Edit: having trouble getting the ODAC working...


----------



## EdwardB4

I have a quick question..
   
  Right now I'm running the Mixamp Pro 2010 edition and a set of HD 598's. The mixamp is connected to my TV's optical out port so I am able to use headphones with all of my gaming devices.I love the HD 598, but just feel like they are lacking in the fun department for me. I play SP games, and rarely, if ever play MP games. From what I have read here and other sites, the HD 598 does not have quite the bass that other cans have.
   
  Looking at this guide has really got me interested in the DT990's. As most of you know here, they come in 4 different sets each with a different OHM. MLE states that all of the Beyer headphones need to be amped to really bring out the sound. MLE also said that "The 32ohm gets you 95% of the way there, with the benefit of being able to sound very good unamped."
   
  My question is, would it be worth it to get these headphones (the d7990's 32 ohm) if I have no plans on amping them? (Using them in combination with the mixamp)
   
  I am not very familar with the amps. I sit about 8 feet away from my TV and setup. If it would be possible to amp my headphones without a bunch of cords running everywhere, I would be interested in doing that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely not. The 32ohm is harder to drive than the 250ohm. I need to edit if I put sounding good unamped. I meant they sound LOUD unamped. You honestly should not use any of those Beyers unamped. Just a waste of money and potential. 

Also, you honestly should not be using your TV's optical out, as I'm almost 90% sure your TV doesn't do dolby digital out for connected devices (only the tvs apps and ota signal). You're basically just getting a 2 channel signal and adding reverb. You really need to make sure.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





edwardb4 said:


> I have a quick question..
> 
> Right now I'm running the Mixamp Pro 2010 edition and a set of HD 598's. The mixamp is connected to my TV's optical out port so I am able to use headphones with all of my gaming devices.I love the HD 598, but just feel like they are lacking in the fun department for me. I play SP games, and rarely, if ever play MP games. From what I have read here and other sites, the HD 598 does not have quite the bass that other cans have.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Edward,
  I can sympathize with the desire to run fewer cables, not buy a whole bunch of accessories, etc.
  Thing is, as Mad said, running your inputs to the TV and connecting via the optical out may not be sending a 5.1 audio signal to your mixamp, AND an amp is not an accessory. The mixamp of course has an amp built-in, which FWIR is a little better than run-of-the-mill, but there is more to amping than merely reaching "loud enough." I have a handsome desktop tube amp right here that would open your eyes in the fun department, that you could keep near your Home Theater setup and just run the one headphone cable back to your couch, effectively only having the same number of wires visible and running across the floor.
  With your current headphones, which may end up still not being your "endgame headphones," I'd recommend first upgrading the amp section of your setup before stepping into +$200 headphones. Quality amplification can really make a difference.
   
  Also, definitely look into your TV's specs and see if the optical-out can send 5.1 and not just stereo, 2 channel PCM. One of the nice things about the Turtle Beach (for all it's other quality flaws) is it has a light that indicates if the device is receiving a Dolby 5.1 signal - maybe the mixamp offers this too? I don't own either, I use Creative's Recon3D, plugged directly into my Xbox and computer (I only have the one current-gen console).
   
  Another option that might suit you would be to look into a Marantz receiver with Dolby Headphone. You'd gain 1 connection for all your inputs (different consoles & disc players, etc), improved headphone amping, bonus speaker amping (makes a magnificent difference for understanding dialogue, among the more typical fun things), and remote control of volume & features. That may not be an option for everyone, for example me where space is limited and I'm running everything in my bedroom at the moment, but it's a tidy, versatile solution converging a bunch of features.


----------



## EdwardB4

Hmm..You are no doubt right. I mainly use the mix amp for the PS3 and Xbox. Would it help if I ran the optical cable directly from the system to the mixamp?
   
  Of all the headphones you tested, what would you say was the funnest set that really immersed you into the game world, that would not need to be amped.
   
  Like I said, while I love the HD598's clarity and sound. It just doesn't have quite the punch of bass I want.
   
  As a sidenote, I only use the headphones for gaming, no music unless its part of the game or streamed from my PC while playing.


----------



## EdwardB4

Evshrug, with the astro mixamp, I have the base which is at the entertainment center which the optical plugs into. Then I have the volume/chat control receiver that sits in my lap while I play. So at the moment, I dont really have a cord that runs the length of the floor.
   
  I will check my TV to check its output, but as you all have stated, I doubt it sends 5.1
   
  I like the sound of the marantz receiver. Can you use the headphones of your choice or only the Marantz?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Marantz is AVR a receiver, like you see at Best Buy and stuff. Think of it as a dac, amp, for speakers, and dolby headphone device. All in one. Its just really freaking huge and heavy. It has a headphone jack. You can use any headphone. 

Mine is the SR5002. Very old model. Got it for $175 on Ebay.

If looking for receivers, make sure they have Dolby Headphone. Google helps.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





edwardb4 said:


> Evshrug, with the astro mixamp, I have the base which is at the entertainment center which the optical plugs into. Then I have the volume/chat control receiver that sits in my lap while I play. So at the moment, I dont really have a cord that runs the length of the floor.
> 
> I will check my TV to check its output, but as you all have stated, I doubt it sends 5.1
> 
> I like the sound of the marantz receiver. Can you use the headphones of your choice or only the Marantz?


 
  It's a centerpiece for your home theater... everything connects to it, and it sends video to your TV and sound to speakers or headphones. I don't think Marantz even makes headphones? It's not a gaming specific device, though with DH it has all the surround capability of gaming devices. You can even manually boost or cut the bass and treble (maybe even the mids, my old receiver does that, as well as channel balance). The only thing you'd lose, is the Mixamp's nice integration of chat (you play SP mostly anyway, right?), and of course you'd have the headphone wire run the length of the floor while you use it. When I had an apartment, I kept my headphone on a small stand (with the wire neatly coiled up) next to the receiver when I wasn't using it, never bothered me... was nice to have my gear on display, and all the other wires neatly tucked away behind. My beefy/high quality headphone wires are sexier than standard interconnects anyway 
   
  I didn't realize you had the wireless Mixamp. I'd definitely recommend trying to plug it directly into a console first (with 5.1 Dolby selected in the console's settings menu) to see if you had been getting surround sound.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> I believe he sampled then in a bb a while back and did not think too highly of them. I wouldn't expect a review from MLE on the k550 any time soon.


 
  No worries. So it sounds like if you are looking for a closed-back set that will be used for general purpose with some emphasis on soundstage for gaming (and it wont break the bank), the DT770 looks like a place I'll start. Any other closed-back recommendations?
   
  BTW, I picked up a pair of K702s last night to replace my AD700. Burning them in right now and can't wait to get some fraggin done with them in Planetside 2 (currently).


----------



## EdwardB4

As soon as I get home this evening, I'll change some things around and check it out.
   
  Is the HD598 near the top that can be properly amped by the mix amp, or is there another set that has the fun factor I'm looking for that the mix amp can drive?
   
  Or is my best bet, like was mentioned, upgrade the amp before thinking about the headphones?


----------



## EdwardB4

While I'm not completely stupid when it comes to this stuff, there is alot I am just learning. For instance, I never knew that an AVR receiver would act like a ampfor a set of headphones. So that's good to know. I was actually getting ready to purchase the Klipsch HD SB3 soundbar for the convenience of less wires. But since getting a good AVR receiver will actually in turn help with my headphones, that may sway me back to getting a nice 5.1 system.
   
  I live in a second story apartment with a garage underneath. I could always drill a hole behind my entertainment center and another hole where I would need the cord to come up and run an headphone extension cable. Would that degrade the quality if it ran through an extension?


----------



## Grymok

Shame on me!!!.
  When i just thought i did decide an can, i started to read half of the [GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More thread -.-
  When i thought i would buy the DT 990 premium 250, the DT 880 250 ohm, just sneaked in. And they are both the same price, of like 300$.
  As i have pointed out, the 880 is much neutral but still with okay bass, and the 990 is something more bass heavy, but still controlled.
  The games: BF3, BF4 and maybe Black ops 2. 
  Music: Rap/hip hop, rock/metal that genre, every kind of electronic music.
   
   
  The source come from a cheap cheap sound card. So should maybe get an Asus DG or DGX
   
  The can will by this time be driven by a Denon Avr-1912 receiver, but will be upgraded to something like this: Yamaha 3010, Denon 4312 or an Anthem MRX 300
   
   
  Will the difference even big that big, in my place?
  not the big audiophile, but love great sound


----------



## smogsy

just ordered the
 *AKG K702 Open-Back Dynamic Reference Headphones*




   
  my first proper audophile headphones arrive tomorrow


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





edwardb4 said:


> While I'm not completely stupid when it comes to this stuff, there is alot I am just learning. For instance, I never knew that an AVR receiver would act like a ampfor a set of headphones. So that's good to know. I was actually getting ready to purchase the Klipsch HD SB3 soundbar for the convenience of less wires. But since getting a good AVR receiver will actually in turn help with my headphones, that may sway me back to getting a nice 5.1 system.
> 
> I live in a second story apartment with a garage underneath. I could always drill a hole behind my entertainment center and another hole where I would need the cord to come up and run an headphone extension cable. Would that degrade the quality if it ran through an extension?


 
   
  If you want to simplify a receiver setup, you can run one with a 2.1 or 3.1 (no surround speakers) and have the receiver mimic the rear surrounds for you. It'll process the rear channels and mix it in with the front right and front left speakers, add in some reverb or slightly delay the sound to make it sound somewhat convincing to a real 5.1 setup. It works okay, I have mine set up in 2.1, but it still won't beat a 5.1. "Surround" sound bars do the same thing. Think of it as DH for speakers.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Has anyone heard of the new mvp carbon gaming headsets by monster?


----------



## Niteblooded

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Shame on me!!!.
> When i just thought i did decide an can, i started to read half of the [GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More thread -.-
> When i thought i would buy the DT 990 premium 250, the DT 880 250 ohm, just sneaked in.


 
   
  I went through the same exact decision frustrations - just when I thought I made up my mind I saw another topic that (and that one in particular) made me question all I thought I understood.
   
  While I can't answer your questions since they are dependant on specific hardware, I will say I picked the DT 990s premium (250ohm).  I love 'em.   They really aren't too hard to drive either.  Right now I am just using an E11 to drive them and clarity just astounds me at times.  I have the same taste music but I will say EDM really stands out as some songs really get a good boost and you will hear songs in multiple dimensions if the artist did a good job layering the song.  And hybrid music like Afro Celt Sound System makes the instruments really come alive as if they are playing right behind you.  I want to get a true dedicated amp to see how much more I can get from them.


----------



## Evshrug

I give up on the ODAC, at least for today. Three cords and a bunch of ports and restarts, no go, don't have "another computer" as suggested by JDS Labs so the ODAC may just end up sitting in the box until I ship it out. I missed out on the headphones today and I'm leaving to go to the gym now.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Shame on me!!!.
> When i just thought i did decide an can, i started to read half of the [GUIDE] Sonic Differences Between DT770-DT990 Models & More thread -.-
> When i thought i would buy the DT 990 premium 250, the DT 880 250 ohm, just sneaked in. And they are both the same price, of like 300$.
> As i have pointed out, the 880 is much neutral but still with okay bass, and the 990 is something more bass heavy, but still controlled.
> ...


 
   
  The reason I was looking at the DT990 over the DT880 for gaming was because all reviews I read stated the DT990 has a much larger soundstage than the DT880 which, for me, is a very high priority for competitive gaming. I never tried the DT880, but I did try the DT990 and K702 and found the soundstage to be excellent for BF3 and Planetside2. Didn't try it with Black Ops 2 because that game is for children. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Ultimately, I picked up the K702 last night, but the DT990 was a close second. If it was me and I only could pick between the DT880 and DT990, I would be picking the DT990.
   
  Your question about sound cards is better suited in this thread, but I'll give ya my initial thoughts. When i was looking at sound cards, I narrowed it down to the Asus Xonar STX and Creative Labs X-Fi Titanium HD. It's mostly a difference of whether you want to process your sound using CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone and whether or not you want proper compatibility with older games or not. If you like CMSS-3D and want to ensure compatibility with older games, an X-Fi card is for you. If you like Dolby Headphone, pick up a Xonar. I didn't care about being compatible with older games, but I still tried both before deciding I preferred CMSS-3D over Dolby Headphone. Went with the Titanium HD and couldn't be happier. There's no right or wrong here. It's just a personal decision based on your tastes. Whatever you get, whether it's one of the ones you or I listed, it's going to be 1000x better than your on-board audio. Absolutely upgrade this so you can add some proper processing to your sound out.


----------



## pervysage

Pulled the trigger on the Annies. They should be coming in tomorrow via next day delivery


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Always wanted to try the 60i or 80i, as they use softies stock.


 
   
  I doubt you'd be a huge fan of the Grados.
   
  My bro has the SR80i, and I've used them before.  The soundstage is intimate and smallish, and it's mainly to the sides of your head and not much out in front of you.  The mids are also recessed.  The treble is sparkly, but also _grainy _- not like the  sparkly, but _clean_, treble of the HE400.  More similar to AD700 treble - sort of sibilant and abrasive.
   
  Also, less bass than the Q701.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't think you even opened the package... So maybe I'll be first?
> 
> Edit: having trouble getting the ODAC working...


 
   
  I opened them up because I modded the headband. 
   
   
  Did it ever pop up saying "installing new hardware"?
   
  You could go into the device manager and see if it is showing up, and if it its uninstall and then tell it to "scan for hardware changes".


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Did it ever pop up saying "installing new hardware"?
> 
> You could go into the device manager and see if it is showing up, and if it its uninstall and then tell it to "scan for hardware changes".




Macintosh.
There were generic drivers for the recon3D, so I'm just confused.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Pulled the trigger on the Annies. They should be coming in tomorrow via next day delivery


 
  ... WHAT are the Annies q.q I've still yet to figure that out!
   
  Anyways I might be intrested in a pair of mid focused airy treble cans like the Akgs. I have some really quiet really AWESOMELY directional mid heavy music [Mushishi OST] that deserves a can with a little more mids than my Dt 880 [hopefully my New tube will solve my issue]
   
  still what is this ANNIE you guys go on about e.e


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AKG K702 65th *Anni*versary *E*dition.

K702 *Anni. E*d. for short.


Can't wait to see the new impressions on them. Those are my babies!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> AKG K702 65th *Anni*versary *E*dition.
> 
> K702 *Anni. E*d. for short.
> 
> ...


 
  ... $500 FREAKING dollars... DMN. Why so much. He-400 is LESS and I might as well buy a used He-500 for that price xD. Still I'm also tempted


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

$400-$430 if you shop around, wait around for the price to change up.

I find them superior to the HE-400 AND HD650, and it competed quite favorably vs the LCD2, IMHO. Not as immediately refined or intimate, but clearer sounding, and more spacious. Seriously, people want to make a direct connection to the older models, but the Annie is a serious, SERIOUS headphone capable of hitting well above the standard K702 tier..


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> ... $500 FREAKING dollars... DMN. Why so much. He-400 is LESS and I might as well buy a used He-500 for that price xD. Still I'm also tempted


 

 Check out Razordog audio he has a coupon and puts the annies at 400. The HE-400 and Annies are just to different to compare IMO. One is mid centric and warm and the other is a DT990 on steroids with less soundstage.
  From what we can all read/research a better comparison would be the HE500 and Annies.


----------



## chicolom

hailin said:


> Check out Razordog audio he has a coupon and puts the annies at 400. The HE-400 and Annies are just to different to compare IMO. One is mid centric and warm and the other is a DT990 on steroids with less soundstage.
> From what we can all read/research a better comparison would be the HE500 and Annies.


You can try the code at the bottom of the site, but I was told by the owner that the discount was only for the first batch. You can still probably get a discount, but it probably won't be for as much.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You can try the code at the bottom of the site, but I was told by the owner that the discount was only for the first batch. You can still probably get a discount, but it probably won't be for as much.


 

 You can try his ebay site and give him and try an offer that low. Worst he will say is no.


----------



## Grymok

Just felt over this piece http://www.amazon.co.uk/GermanMaestro-GMP-Open-Back-Headphones/dp/B004I77ICO/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_in 
  while searching price on the DT 990 pro. Anyone tried this one for gaming?.


----------



## pervysage

I just realized that the wireless transmitter for my Turtle Beach PX5 headset has a headphone jack on the front of it that apparently outputs Dolby Headphone. If I were to use that instead of the Mixamp, would something like the Antlion Modmic be able to connect directly to the Xbox 360 controller? I know the Modmic is 3.5mm so I would probably need a 3.5 > 2.5mm converter.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, I connect a mic directly to my controller all the time, no problem. You would essentially be using your base station like a DSS.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





edwardb4 said:


> I have a quick question..
> 
> Right now I'm running the Mixamp Pro 2010 edition and a set of HD 598's. The mixamp is connected to my TV's optical out port so I am able to use headphones with all of my gaming devices.I love the HD 598, but just feel like they are lacking in the fun department for me. I play SP games, and rarely, if ever play MP games. From what I have read here and other sites, the HD 598 does not have quite the bass that other cans have.


 
  Hey EdwardB4 are you running HDMI output out of your consoles to your  tv set ?? I'm not sure how eveyone else would do it but before i purchased my HP A717A crt monitor i use to go hdmi output from my xbox360 console into  my  samsung sync master p2370HD and had no problems doing 5.1 virtual surround into the mixamp from the optical out on the tv/monitor.. Same goes for my other samsung LN46A750 it also works last time i checked although it was long ago..


----------



## Evshrug

Double post...


----------



## Evshrug

Well, hopefully EdwardB4 checked if it really was getting a surround feed. The way I "do it" is just connect my Recon3D directly to my devices, since I only have 1 each PC & Xbox (that sit next to eachother). I suggested a receiver for the reasons I mentioned before, plus HDMI switches I'd seen cost a fair amount anyway. If his testing DOES reveal the Dolby signal to being forwarded to the Mixamp, yay, but I just suggested doing that & considering his whole system before upgrading his headphones again, especially since better components would benefit higher-tier headphones anyway.

Chris J pointed out his co-authored article on headphone impedance, which I thought was very handy (though the implications of my fading math skills alarm me): http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance


----------



## pervysage

Looks like the Fii0 E9K has RCA inputs for the AUX IN. Looks like I'll have to purchase a 3.5mm to RCA (red/white) cable separately if I want to hook up the Astro Mixamp to it?
   
  Does anyone know if that cable comes with either the Fiio amp or the Mixamp? Doesn't look like it does.


----------



## kenshinhimura

I believe it's on the review page that only the mixamp comes with that cable


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, just get one off Amazon. I get the mediabridge one. Really high quality and more flexible than the Monoprice ones, but both work very well.


----------



## Evshrug

I have a Monster RCA-to-3.5mm cable 
But I don't think it matters very much. My mom bought it, I just "borrow" it.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, just get one off Amazon. I get the mediabridge one. Really high quality and more flexible than the Monoprice ones, but both work very well.


 
   
  That Mediabridge one looks good quality from what I can see in the pictures.
   
  Just want to make sure one more time before I order an amp. The E9K should be plenty to drive the Annies well?
   
  I decided to just go with the E9K/E17 combo as it seems to be the most convenient (plenty of inputs/outputs, so no switching cables all the time) and has good reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You shouldn't have much of a problem with that setup. The output impedance on the E9K isn't normally ideal with headphones less than 80ohm, but the K702 doesn't have any real issues with output impedance.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You shouldn't have much of a problem with that setup. The output impedance on the E9K isn't normally ideal with headphones less than 80ohm, but the K702 doesn't have any real issues with output impedance.


 
   
  Sounds good. Since the E17 has an Optical input and USB as well, which is the better option for the DAC? My PC has an Optical out I can use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Optical. Usb might pick up interference. Try both, and see which you like more.


----------



## pervysage

Still kind of wary about what I should go with.
   
  E9K/E17 would work with the Annies, but as you said because of the output impedance, it wouldn't be optimal.
   
  I could always wait and save up a little to get something better. Are there any better options out there that would still give me the multiple inputs for switching between PC and the Xbox?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It wouldn't be optimal for other heqdphones. The drivers o tbe Annies aren't affected in the same way. I would personally go with the E9K for the price. Can't beat that versatility.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, just get one off Amazon. I get the mediabridge one. Really high quality and more flexible than the Monoprice ones, but both work very well.


 
  I got a medbrige coiled cable... it failed on me... MONO PRICE FTW 
   
  No 3.5m cables really hate me... though... I always yank them out by accident an then sound goes out on one side of my cans q.q
   
  My Fiio Cable still works, my Mono Price [HUGE] flaked out one day for 7 seconds let's hope it's not screwed... and my media bridge is busted
   
  I think it's my Hifimans Line out... it seems to be a AGRESSIVE connector xD it always RUINS my cables.
   
  Still MONO PRICE FOREVER ]screw media bridge xD[


----------



## Evshrug

pervysage said:


> Still kind of wary about what I should go with.
> 
> E9K/E17 would work with the Annies, but as you said because of the output impedance, it wouldn't be optimal.
> 
> I could always wait and save up a little to get something better. Are there any better options out there that would still give me the multiple inputs for switching between PC and the Xbox?




Not optimal, but maybe not a huge issue. The output impedance is just 10 ohm, right? Anyway, I found this article on headphone impedance helpful:
http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance


----------



## Grymok

How will a used  Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion for a price of 71 USD, compare with the Asus Xonar DG 37 USB?.
  Not sure how the Creative compare with the xonar by price?.
  Hope anyone can give me a hint


----------



## Evshrug

Grymok,
The best place to ask that question is on Nameless' thread, although I see you already found that.
The biggest difference, however, will be that Creative's X-Fi card will use CMSS-3D for surround processing, and the Asus Xonar will use Dolby Headphone. The other thing some people mention is that Asus' drivers can be a pain and haven't been updated for a while, and Creative's fatality should have drivers similar to the regular X-Fi Titanium which are pretty good. CMSS-3D allows for a "sphere" of sound positioning, while Dolby creates a "ring" of positions (2D instead of 3D), but it's up to you if you think that's important. Creative's cards also have more features and better support for old games (there's a gold mine of good games between 2004-2006), but games haven't taken advantage of EAX, for example, for the past few years.

Really, either one should be ok. Chose based on your taste more than anything else, cuz you gotta enjoy it. Good Luck


----------



## roguegeek

grymok said:


> How will a used  Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion for a price of 71 USD,
> compare with the Asus Xonar DG 37 USB?.
> 
> Not sure how the Creative compare with the xonar by price?.
> ...




You're better off asking those questions in this thread.


----------



## roguegeek

(double post)


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
Finally getting a chance to listen to the HE-400s as I type. Did an 18.5 min video showing my impressions, I don't know if it'll be of use to anyone else but it was fun, actually felt rushed on my end but over 5 mins is probably too long for viewers.

Basically, my impression is the HE-400 is a fun can, performing rather than replicating. No duh, right? More bass than I'm used to, seems MADE for Massive Attack, listening to Heliogoland right now and it adds a lot of drama. I also feel the HE-400 is a smoother headphone, not treble fatiguing - very detailed, but a little more rounded on the details. Bass also stands out, kicks harder and takes attention away from mids, I wouldn't use with any genre unless it was all I had, if that were the case I wouldn't be missing out but it adds a little dark chocolate to every song "meal," I love chocolate but it might make some song-foods taste weird with it.

Haven't tried it unamped or gaming yet, going to try that. I think it'll be fine, but it doesn't reach that "being there" feeling and instead feels like listening to media. It may be more fun, but I don't get lost in it quite the same.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Somebody mentioned he/she wanted a receiver? I think a sound system (speakers) was also mentioned? I have a receiver for sale if you're interested. Just check out my sig for the details.


----------



## Toxos

Has anyone tried the pc363d's yet from Sennheiser? How about the astro a40's but the 2013 model? I cannot find a comparison anywhere between these two.


----------



## skidatel

Hello. Will sound blaster z onboard amp power DT 990 pro 250 ohms? sound blaster says it has a 600 ohms headphone amp in it but I am sure it's not that good. I listen to games/music/movies at 30-40% volume in windows and what ever app/player I am using has max volume.
   
  btw , HI everyone


----------



## Makiah S

...i still can't order my 990s gatta c how much car repairs r gonna b


----------



## Evshrug

toxos said:


> Has anyone tried the pc363d's yet from Sennheiser? How about the astro a40's but the 2013 model? I cannot find a comparison anywhere between these two.



I don't think I've read reviews on the new Sennheiser, but Mad reviewed the new 2013 Astro A40 on the first page for it's own merits. The Sennheiser will obviously be the better quality headphone, however if you're considering the A40s for the Mixamp bundle vs just using the Senns in stereo, then advantage A40 bundle.




skidatel said:


> Hello. Will sound blaster z onboard amp power DT 990 pro 250 ohms? sound blaster says it has a 600 ohms headphone amp in it but I am sure it's not that good. I listen to games/music/movies at 30-40% volume in windows and what ever app/player I am using has max volume.
> 
> btw , HI everyone



Sound blaster says 600 ohms but I read specs saying the power output isn't as high as some desktop amps made for high impedance headphones. The 250 ohm Beyer headphone will sound good because it'll have great dampening and require less current, but the Sound Blaster Z may not be able to make the music play very loud. The Beyers will require the volume turned up higher to sound as loud, but it's highly likely it will reach loud enough levels.


----------



## EdwardB4

Quote: 





i95north said:


> Hey EdwardB4 are you running HDMI output out of your consoles to your  tv set ?? I'm not sure how eveyone else would do it but before i purchased my HP A717A crt monitor i use to go hdmi output from my xbox360 console into  my  samsung sync master p2370HD and had no problems doing 5.1 virtual surround into the mixamp from the optical out on the tv/monitor.. Same goes for my other samsung LN46A750 it also works last time i checked although it was long ago..


 
   
  Yeah, that's how I was doing it. Xbox HDMI to to, OPTICAL out on tv to mixamp. That way I could use all my devices with the mixamp. My TV however, a 55 inch Sammy, it seems was not able to output 5.1.
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, hopefully EdwardB4 checked if it really was getting a surround feed. The way I "do it" is just connect my Recon3D directly to my devices, since I only have 1 each PC & Xbox (that sit next to eachother). I suggested a receiver for the reasons I mentioned before, plus HDMI switches I'd seen cost a fair amount anyway. If his testing DOES reveal the Dolby signal to being forwarded to the Mixamp, yay, but I just suggested doing that & considering his whole system before upgrading his headphones again, especially since better components would benefit higher-tier headphones anyway.
> 
> Chris J pointed out his co-authored article on headphone impedance, which I thought was very handy (though the implications of my fading math skills alarm me): http://www.head-fi.org/a/headphone-impedance


 
  Turns out I was NOT getting a surround feed. I plugged in the optical cord straight from the 360 to the mix amp and fired up Far Cry 3. The difference was night and day. I can really feel the footsteps, gunshots and explosions.
   
  Haha, here I was sitting there with the optical from the TV in the mixamp. Gunshot. Reload. Grenade. Unhook the optical and plug in the 360 optical. Gunshot. Reload. Grenade.
   
  So yeah, thanks for the advice guys. What little I've been able to play since doing this (only played FC3, and for not very long), the results have been incredible. I hopefully should not have any other issues with the 598's.
   
   
  On a different but related topic, I will be upgrading my surround sound system this week. Going from an old Samsung home theater in a box to an Onkyo NR515, BIC F12 sub, and Energy take classics 5.0.
   
  My question, will the amp on the NR515 better drive these cans or should I continue to use the mixamp?


----------



## Toxos

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't think I've read reviews on the new Sennheiser, but Mad reviewed the new 2013 Astro A40 on the first page for it's own merits. The Sennheiser will obviously be the better quality headphone, however if you're considering the A40s for the Mixamp bundle vs just using the Senns in stereo, then advantage A40 bundle.


 
  Oh I guess I did not know those were the 2013's but that is very good to know! The new senn's come with a new soundcard with them but idk why there are no reviews! I would love to take a pair if I had the money but I only have money for one :/ and the new senn's are more expensive too... I think around 300 USD.


----------



## AxelCloris

My Mad Dogs just came in the mail today, and this may be new toy syndrome, but I am soooooooo happy I purchased these. Now I haven't heard any other closed headphones in this price range, but I seriously think that these are THE closed headphones for me. A bit warm in the color, but incredibly precise in the presentation. I've only been listening to them for about 20 minutes, so take everything I'm hearing currently as such. No gaming done on them as such yet, but the music... my God the music... I've heard people compare these loosely to the D5k with J$ pads. Having never heard them, I have no idea. Isolation is superb, can't hear the fiancee talking while she sits directly next to me and the only thing I have currently playing is very light Japanese koto music. The alpha pads are so comfortable to me, I never thought I'd say this about a leather pad again, but they're definitely wowing me so far. They are incredibly soft, and I have to say I LOVE the new leather smell. So nice. Wish I had a better amp to truly drive these properly, rather than just my E9. I'll get a photo of them up soon, as well as a shot of the "modded" E9 since MLE asked to see it before.
   
  tl;dr
  Mad Dogs: so far, the bite is worthy of the bark.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was close to spending the money on those... I might just do that.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I was close to spending the money on those... I might just do that.


 Once my 15 day return window has passed I'm willing to send them your way for a demo/review. And maybe even drop 'em off to Chico next time I'm a bit north. Just want to spend enough time with them now to make sure that it's not just the new toy syndrome. Also need to debate selling a couple things to fund a new amp. I have my ZO on the FS section now to apply towards a new amp, probably will pass along the E9 soonish as well if I do, maybe do the magni/modi stack, or even step into the realm of budget-friendly Audio GD or Matrix.


----------



## chicolom

Here's the Fostex TH-600, little brother to the TH-900 (which is an absolutely _gorgeous_ headphone).
   
  At around $800, the TH-600 is still way to expensive though...
   
  (TH-600 is the black one on the right)


----------



## calpis

Too bad Fostex won't make a high end ortho 
   
  I still really love the look of the TH-900 and the TH-600 is quite the looker too.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Too bad Fostex won't make a high end ortho
> 
> *I still really love the look of the TH-900* and the TH-600 is quite the looker too.


 
   
  Yes.
   
  The TH-900 is incredibly hawt.  I want to lick them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've had my eye on the TH-600 since hearing of them, and I actually hope it is a rebadged D7000 or something very much like it. That would be my last headphone. If the D7000 was still around for $600, I would have rebought it (as well as Lawton leather pads for better comfort) and end this.


----------



## Makiah S

... Man i was gonna drop 300 on a, new but i might get the mad dogs instead... How do they compare to dt 770 pro 250 n 600 ohm


----------



## Evshrug

Augh! AAUGH!
So, the HE-400 is too thick for my tastes. Switching from the E12 after it's battery died to straight out from the iPod's thinner-sounding headphone jack actually seemed to improve the sound a bit, or at least make it less THHHHICK-ah. The bass IS the best part and it does bass very well, but i miss the mids and treble impacts (like cymbals and high-hats) hurt. And now, I'm walking around the house with my ears feeling overly sensitive, picking up annoying buzzes from the dimmer lights and the whine under my ceiling fan. The HE-400 hits the valley of disbelief for me, the color pushes me back from feeling immersed in the music. Gaming was fine last night, in fact I've been having a lot of fun in Reach and doing quite well, but the embodiment of a soundscape is missing, even if I technically hear a sound coming from 2 O'clock or 5 O'clock.

I really wanted to hear the ODAC, I've been tempted to buy my own a few times, but I can't get it working. I'm going to work on it some more today, but I don't think I'll have the chance to do all the testing I'd hoped even if I do get it working.

Emo panda...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Use a different USB cable. The ODAC is picky with cables for some reason.

As for the HE400, sorry it's not for you. It does have fatiguing treble, I don't doubt it, especially when used to the smoother treble on the Qs. Having been used to the Annie, the HE400 gives me ear fatigue now.

You wouldn't like the 990s , Pro 900s, ans other treble happy cans.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> ... Man i was gonna drop 300 on a, new but i might get the mad dogs instead... How do they compare to dt 770 pro 250 n 600 ohm


 
   
  No idea, honestly. I haven't heard the 770 pro 32 ohm in over a year, and I only demo'd it. Never heard the 250 or 600 versions. Only closed headphones that I can really compare it to are my cheap monoprices, I'd be the wrong person to ask on that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the Mad Dogs are THE closed headphone to get at the price range, unless you want something bass heavy on purpose.

I don't have a need for another balanced headphone, so I want my D7000/TH-600 and call it quits.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Augh! AAUGH!
> So, the HE-400 is too thick for my tastes. Switching from the E12 after it's battery died to straight out from the iPod's thinner-sounding headphone jack actually seemed to improve the sound a bit, or at least make it less THHHHICK-ah. The bass IS the best part and it does bass very well, but i miss the mids and treble impacts (like cymbals and high-hats) hurt. And now, I'm walking around the house with my ears feeling overly sensitive, picking up annoying buzzes from the dimmer lights and the whine under my ceiling fan.


 
   
  Having too much treble and not enough mids is opposite of how I would describe "too thick...."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, true. Though the HE-400 does have a very thick sound at least compared to the Q701. Mids aren't forward, but lower mids are pretty linear with the bass.


----------



## Evshrug

Well the bass dominates, mids are relatively pushed back, and it seems like a fair bit of treble is laid back except where it suddenly spikes up. I COULD see where someone could love this, and like I said it seems made for Massive Attack (lovely rumble), but I felt like it essentially destroyed Janis Joplin's performance by pushing her already recessed vocals back outside of the "music spotlight zone" and into a "backing vocals" area. Funnily enough, Jewel sounded pretty good, but I think the fact that "Gotta Start Feeding Our Souls" is just her singing and one acoustic guitar helped, and the lowest guitar notes really jumped out.

I tried the ODAC with one of the included cables (there were two in the bag) plus two of my own that are known to work with other things (one of them I literally unplugged my wi-fi bridge while it was on and plugged it into the ODAC). I'll dig out the other cable that was packed in the HE's bag, try starting up the computer with it plugged in. I'll also see if I can disable the motherboard's audio in the BIOS, maybe that'll help. I really want to hear the ODAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like a problem with your setup, not the ODAC. 

I put it in 3 different setups and it worked just fine in all three. Only my main PC didn't like the first USB cable I used. After that, smooth sailing.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Having too much treble and not enough mids is opposite of how I would describe "too thick...."



I didn't go to audiophile academy, so I struggle to describe without having mastery of the common description. Honestly, I felt that the bass dominated more than the treble, the bass was so full that everything else struggled to push through it. Sometimes the treble would cut through. Get ready to laugh... It's like you've got 6" thick slab of elastic, taught rubber on one hand, and a slender knife in the other hand, and the mids are ok but not... 

Eh, g2g for now.


Mad,
That's basically what the head of JDS labs said to me when I asked for suggestions. I wish I could use another computer, but the laptop's battery died, ballooned out, and the computer strangely won't run from the AC plug alone. I'll update you once I get it working, one way or another, but I know Calpis is waiting for it... So today is it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're just too used to your tin can AD700s. 

The HE-400 has incredibly linear bass that is borderline flat and natural. It's the recessed upper mids and very sharp treble that make it a highly colored headphone.

Though again, the Ad700's have that peaky, bright signature and treble, which may be why you'd consider the HE400's treble not as strong as it's bass. Have to leat your ears adjust. The HE-400 has MUCH more treble than the Q701.

I always say, test the headphones ALONE for a few days, without going back to the others until like day 4. That way you can see what is gained, and what is lost. Constant A/B is not good, especially when the signatures are so different.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I have been listening to the HE-400 exclusively the past 2 days, before that I'd mostly been listening with the Q701's. I'll ask Calpis if I can listen till Tuesday (which would be a week from when the post office got it to me, though Chico was more quick than I am and mailed it on a Friday), but I know he's probably anxious to form his own opinion and get his ODAC as well.


----------



## chicolom

I didn't feel like the HE400 bass was dominating or pushing anything else out.  I thought it was quite in line with the overall sound.
   
  The mids are a little recessed and could use more body and warmth, and the treble is still a little too sparkly for some types of music.  Its definitely more balanced sounding than the DT990.  The HE400 treble is not as HOT, and the mids aren't as recessed as the DT990. 
   
  It's also an exceptionally _clear _sounding headphone.  Just the balance isn't perfect IMO.
   
   
  ...I need to write up my review already!


----------



## pervysage

Got my Annies and Mixamp Pro 2013 in so far.
   
  And wow! I can actually hear footsteps in Black Ops 2 (a game with terrible audio, footsteps wise). This is without even using the Dead Silence and Awareness perks. With those on it would be even better... heh.
   
  The headphones connected straight to my PC are fantastic as well... curious to see how much difference the E9K/E17 combo will make... they are coming in tomorrow.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Black ops for pc or console? I'm really thinking about getting the Annie with that same combo of e07k/e09k for the 360. Let me know how that sounds for you.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Double post


----------



## Toxos

Jumped on the pc360s lol I really wanted a mic with my headphones and I thought those were the best option. How do you guys thing it will sound with my current asus xonar u3? I wont be able to get a new card or anything else for a while since the headphones got rid of my funds T_T (but also  cuz of the headset)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 isn't hard to drive, so I'm sure it will sound pretty good.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> Black ops for pc or console? I'm really thinking about getting the Annie with that same combo of e07k/e09k for the 360. Let me know how that sounds for you.


 
   
  On console for the 360 here. Already sounds great with the Mixamp alone (without Voice chat mixed in). The E9K/E17 and Modmic are coming in tomorrow so I will let you guys know how that sounds with voice chat mixed in.


----------



## kenshinhimura

pervysage said:


> On console for the 360 here. Already sounds great with the Mixamp alone (without Voice chat mixed in). The E9K/E17 and Modmic are coming in tomorrow so I will let you guys know how that sounds with voice chat mixed in.




Sounds good. Look forward to it


----------



## Makiah S

Lol, the xb 700s... Now those r thick... Way to much bass, peaky treble n no mids woot... Still for edm i think the 990 will b great! I guess i can handle aLot o treble... I blame the print shop i grew up in...


----------



## kenshinhimura

@mad lust envy
Is the trick to play dts audio a ymmv thing? Was set to watch The Crow bluray which only has dts-hd audio and it didn't play sound with bitstream mix through my dss.


----------



## Makiah S

woot buying my dt 990 now'z  [car repairs where cheapish thankfully]


----------



## Khagan

How do the HE-500s fair on the competitive scale and immersion?
   
  Its a toss top between this and the K702 annies (assuming a Cardas fat pipe comes out for it, or if you can use the old one) for me.


----------



## catspaw

Im still enjoying my HE-400 in the asgard from optical X-fi Titanium (non-HD) and the E17 as DAC.
  PLz dont talk about the HE-500, i dont want to get tempted .


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





khagan said:


> How do the HE-500s fair on the competitive scale and immersion?
> 
> Its a toss top between this and the K702 annies (assuming a Cardas fat pipe comes out for it, or if you can use the old one) for me.


 
_I thi_nk I'd want the He-500 used for the price of a New Annie... still I'd like to hear both the He 400 and 500... the HE 500's Frequancy Graph looks very nice... but I need to hear it obviosuly
  Quote: 





catspaw said:


> Im still enjoying my HE-400 in the asgard from optical X-fi Titanium (non-HD) and the E17 as DAC.
> PLz dont talk about the HE-500, i dont want to get tempted .


 
  lucky you :3, I want a He-400... but I think I'll go dt 880 600 ohm b4 I go he 400 :x


----------



## Grymok

How hard is the DT 990 premium 600 ohm to drive, if you compare to like the Essence STX sound card, or O2 amp?.
  Amazon got one discounted 70£ on that one.
  Anyone can give some hint?.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Ok, so how much of a difference is it between the AKG Q701 and the K701 65th anni?  More bass presence?  How about switching the ear pads?  Can someone verify they make a difference?
   
  I don't want to end up selling my Q's and get the 65th anni just to hear that they sound basically the same with the ear pads switched.... I'd have paid all that when all I needed were the pads...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ok, so how much of a difference is it between the AKG Q701 and the K701 65th anni?  More bass presence?  How about switching the ear pads?  Can someone verify they make a difference?
> 
> I don't want to end up selling my Q's and get the 65th anni just to hear that they sound basically the same with the ear pads switched.... I'd have paid all that when all I needed were the pads...


 
   
  In the dedicated Annies thread someone compared their pads to the Qs, tried swapping them, and the sound on the Q was actually a bit worse when using the Annie pads. So the consensus is that buying the memory foam pads isn't too great an idea for the Qs. As for the general difference, I think the best way I've heard it described is better bass and more refinement overall at the expense of a bit of the soundstage, making the sound more intimate, but still excellent with directional queues.


----------



## Evshrug

I wonder how the Annies sounded with the Q pads? I would think angling the drivers (by using angled pads) yields better control over how sounds enter your ear.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'll find the post and link it. They compared the Annies with Q pads as well.
   
  Oops, seems my memory is slipping slightly. It was the K701 with the K702 Annies. Still, here's the direct link.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/1035#post_9109354
   
  The K701 and Q701 pads are made of different materials, to quote MLE.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> In the dedicated Annies thread someone compared their pads to the Qs, tried swapping them, and the sound on the Q was actually a bit worse when using the Annie pads. So the consensus is that buying the memory foam pads isn't too great an idea for the Qs. As for the general difference, I think the best way I've heard it described is better bass and more refinement overall at the expense of a bit of the soundstage, making the sound more intimate, but still excellent with directional queues.


 
  Ok thank you. Ya there was a bit to read through and I just purchased the Anni's and was hoping that I didn't make a mistake.  Thanks for the info.  Oh just to let you guys know, if your interested I'm selling my AKG Q701's now because I'm getting the Anni's.  
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/652841/akg-q701-quincy-jones-and-jvc-fxz-200-sold-and-a-nixon-lowdown-watch
   
  And a Nixon Lowdown watch.  
   
  Ok enough derailing...lol back to the HPs!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ok, so how much of a difference is it between the AKG Q701 and the K701 65th anni?  More bass presence?  How about switching the ear pads?  Can someone verify they make a difference?


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I wonder how the Annies sounded with the Q pads? I would think angling the drivers (by using angled pads) yields better control over how sounds enter your ear.


 
   
   
  I'll have _both _pairs tomorrow.
   
  I'll get to the bottom of it...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'll have _both _pairs tomorrow.
> 
> I'll get to the bottom of it...


 
  Nice.


----------



## AxelCloris

Headphone party at Chico's!


----------



## mikewr

Would it be dumb to connect my odac to my earforce dss usb out?  Would I hear any noticible sound/detail improvement compared to just using my dss with my amp alone?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mikewr said:


> Would it be dumb to connect my odac to my earforce dss usb out?  Would I hear any noticible sound/detail improvement compared to just using my dss with my amp alone?


 
   
  TDLR: Yes.  And No.
   
   
  There would be no point in hooking the two together.  The DSS's USB port is a pass-through port, so if you plug the ODAC into it, the ODAC will just pass straight through whatevers behind it(which would have to be a computer, otherwise the ODAC will do nothing at all).  The DSS will just be acting sort of like a 1 port USB hub.  It would be no different than plugging the ODAC straight into a computer, except it would be more complicated and you might get some kind of interference running through the DSS.
   
  You can send the ODAC signal to the DSS, but it would be stereo, which would defeat the purpose of using a _surround sound_ processor (which requires a dolby digital 5.1 signal via optical to work correctly).  The DSS only uses it's USB port to draw power/usb pass through.  It only functions as a DAC when it gets a signal from toslink/optical.
   
  I assume you are hooking the DSS up to a console over optical and using it for dolby headphone?  If your not, your using it wrong.


----------



## mikewr

chicolom said:


> TDLR: Yes.  And No.
> 
> 
> There would be no point in hooking the two together.  The DSS's USB port is a pass-through port, so if you plug the ODAC into it, the ODAC will just pass straight through whatevers behind it(which would have to be a computer, otherwise the ODAC will do nothing at all).  The DSS will just be acting sort of like a 1 port USB hub.  It would be no different than plugging the ODAC straight into a computer, except it would be more complicated and you might get some kind of interference running through the DSS.
> ...


 
  Yes that is my setup for gaming.  I was just curious  thank you for the response.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hawaiiancerveza said:


> Ok, so how much of a difference is it between the AKG Q701 and the K701 65th anni?  More bass presence?  How about switching the ear pads?  Can someone verify they make a difference?
> 
> I don't want to end up selling my Q's and get the 65th anni just to hear that they sound basically the same with the ear pads switched.... I'd have paid all that when all I needed were the pads...:mad:




You also get a major, MAJOR boost in comfort. The headband swap is a significant upgrade in comfort.

Tdock is sending me his Q701 tomorrow, so pretty soon I'll be able to compare directly, as well as see what the pads do when they are swapped. I'll be spending some quality time with the Q701 for a few days, to get a taste for the differences.

So far, yes, the Annies is warmer, fuller, and the bass is considerably improved, to where the Annie is thumping with the right music. 

If you already own the Q701, going to the Annie might just be for the bass, extra smoothness, and extra comfort. So unless you're not happy with any of these things, the upgrade might not be for you. I always found the Q701 to be a little lacking in bass and not the fullest sounding can, which the Annie fixes. Also the headband is literally torture until you either fix it or adjust to the pain. No problem with the Annie.

Seems like this week is gonna be huge for the K701/2/Q/Annie community, as we're gonna start seeing some real comparisons.

Now that I'm getting the Q701 again (thanks Tdock!), I'll be re-writing the Q701 entry in my new review style.

I knew a few of you pm-ed me about loaning me their Q701s, and I appreciate it. Don't think I didn't listen.


----------



## Impulse

axelcloris said:


> My Mad Dogs just came in the mail today, and this may be new toy syndrome, but I am soooooooo happy I purchased these. Now I haven't heard any other closed headphones in this price range, but I seriously think that these are THE closed headphones for me. A bit warm in the color, but incredibly precise in the presentation. I've only been listening to them for about 20 minutes, so take everything I'm hearing currently as such. No gaming done on them as such yet, but the music... my God the music... I've heard people compare these loosely to the D5k with J$ pads. Having never heard them, I have no idea. Isolation is superb, can't hear the fiancee talking while she sits directly next to me and the only thing I have currently playing is very light Japanese koto music. The alpha pads are so comfortable to me, I never thought I'd say this about a leather pad again, but they're definitely wowing me so far. They are incredibly soft, and I have to say I LOVE the new leather smell. So nice. Wish I had a better amp to truly drive these properly, rather than just my E9. I'll get a photo of them up soon, as well as a shot of the "modded" E9 since MLE asked to see it before.
> 
> 
> tl;dr
> Mad Dogs: so far, the bite is worthy of the bark.




Heh, I think I'm so totally sold on the Mad Dogs... I've been asking around about them and they seem like a pretty attractive alternative to my DT 880, different enough sound sig to be worth swapping to occasionally while at my desk but versatile enough that they'll be a great pair for the living room.

I didn't even think they isolated that well, thanks for mentioning that; a few of the posts I read seemed to indicate they didn't leak at all but were maybe not quite as isolating, maybe Alpha pads improved on that. Would love to hear more once you've had more time with them...

There doesn't seem to be a lot of great mid-range closed headphones out there, lately it's all heavily slanted towards portables.




chicolom said:


> I'll have _both_ pairs tomorrow.
> 
> I'll get to the bottom of it...




Looking forward to that, as well as MLE's comparison!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I might be another D7000, the listing ends in 5 days anyways.

That means the HE-400 is definitely going up on sale. $300 total. No labels/branding on the HE-400, but hit me up if interested. Have to wait a bit over a week though, as I promised calpis a week head time.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so I might be another D7000, the listing ends in 5 days anyways.


 
   
  But what about pads!?
   
  I thought you said something along the lines of "I'll never go back to them..." or equivalent.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I get the D7000, I'm gonna order some Lawton pads, which are real leather. Having used the LCD2, I see that leather pads are a bit better in comfort than pleather. My skin doesn't stick to it, and doesn't irritate it as much. I still would prefer velour, but I can live with leather pads.

That's a big if. Guess we'll find out in 5 days.

Not gonna lie, if the HE-400 was with me right now, I'd have a listing up on the FS section. If it sold, then yes, the D7000 would be a yes.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Thanks.  Ya I felt the same about the bass department.  It left me wanting more.  It did well for gaming but I want to try the Annie's.  I'll most likely have both at the same time to compare so I'll be able to see the differences also.  
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You also get a major, MAJOR boost in comfort. The headband swap is a significant upgrade in comfort.
> 
> Tdock is sending me his Q701 tomorrow, so pretty soon I'll be able to compare directly, as well as see what the pads do when they are swapped. I'll be spending some quality time with the Q701 for a few days, to get a taste for the differences.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Putting my HE-400 up on sale. Just remember, they are currently on loan until the end of next week, so pay now and they'll be shipped out as soon as he's finished.

As I mentioned before, no labeling (just the cable have the L/R indicators).



$300 total, $15 extra if not marked as gift. USA only. PM me if interested.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> If I get the D7000, I'm gonna order some Lawton pads, which are real leather. Having used the LCD2, I see that leather pads are a bit better in comfort than pleather. My skin doesn't stick to it, and doesn't irritate it as much. I still would prefer velour, but I can live with leather pads.
> 
> That's a big if. Guess we'll find out in 5 days.
> 
> Not gonna lie, if the HE-400 was with me right now, I'd have a listing up on the FS section. If it sold, then yes, the D7000 would be a yes.



No luck finding any X1s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. To be honest, I lost interest. Instead of pinning my hopes on that, I rather just go for what I know made me 100% happy, even if it costs a bit more.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





grymok said:


> How hard is the DT 990 premium 600 ohm to drive, if you use the Essence STX sound card, O2 amp or runs from an receiver?.
> Amazon got one discounted 90£ on that one.
> Anyone can give some hint?.


 
  This one is just ALOT cheaper than the 250 ohm


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX and O2 should be decent with them. The Magni would be better though. It has more power at 600ohm.


----------



## TwoWillz

Thanks for the great write and thanks all that contributed. I passed on the Astros to go after the Dt990's after couple weeks of debating.Pretty much will be used for everything gaming,music,etc.. just felt these would be a nice all around set to start with.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





grymok said:


> This one is just ALOT cheaper than the 250 ohm


 
  I own the Essence STX and an O2 amp and a decent receiver.
  I would think a Titanium HD with an external headphone amplifier (like my O2) or the Schit Magni would be the best choice.
  My O2 seem to provide more power to drive my 600-Ohm headphones then the STX and receiver.
  I'm guessing the Magni is at least equal power wise to my O2.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





edwardb4 said:


> Yeah, that's how I was doing it. Xbox HDMI to to, OPTICAL out on tv to mixamp. That way I could use all my devices with the mixamp. My TV however, a 55 inch Sammy, it seems was not able to output 5.1.
> Turns out I was NOT getting a surround feed. I plugged in the optical cord straight from the 360 to the mix amp and fired up Far Cry 3. The difference was night and day. I can really feel the footsteps, gunshots and explosions.
> 
> Haha, here I was sitting there with the optical from the TV in the mixamp. Gunshot. Reload. Grenade. Unhook the optical and plug in the 360 optical. Gunshot. Reload. Grenade.
> ...


 
   
  Hey EdwardB4 are you sure that  your not outputing 5.1 from your hdmi cord into your tv set then out the optical port of the tv to mixamp in 5.1 virtual surround?? IF NO, that's strange both of my sets do it but maybe its different from model to model samsungs??   So i assume you had the console hooked  up to HDMI port 1 which is usually the game mode port on the sammy's right??
   
  I did just as you say you had done by putting optical cord from out of xbox360 straight into mixamp and your original way with the hdmi sounds no different!! They both put out 5.1 virtual surround on both my sammy's but again it could be diff on yours...


----------



## chicolom

The Q701s and K702 Anniversaries are locked in an epic battle as I speak!


----------



## kenshinhimura

Looking forward to this as I have q701 and I'm thinking of returning themand getting the Annie


----------



## chicolom

Here are the initial quick comparisons:
   
*Q701*:
  Faster sounding, more air, cleaner separation, soundstage is more laid-back, greater impression of depth and distance in the soundstage.
   
*K702 65*:
  More "Musical", lush, smoother, more body, slightly darker treble, less air, soundstage gives impression of being more forward and intimate.
   


Spoiler: There%20are%20some%20more%20lengthy%20initial%20impressions%20from%20the%20K702%20anniversary%20thread%3A



 
  Whoo boy...I already have about two and a half pages of notes!
   
  Okay.
   
  Well, first off I will say that _as far as I can tell_, the sonic changes are due to the pads.  I've A-Bed back and forth between each can with their stock pads, A-Bed back and forth with each can wearing the latters pads, and A-Bed back and forth with the same can switching pads.  It's a little hard to due the last one, as I have to pause and unlock all the bayonet locks then swap pads and relock them (usually having to reposition that little grey foam that likes to fall out).  But, again from what I've heard so far the Q701 with 65 pads sounds like the 65 and vice a versa. 
   
  So the good news is I think you can mod any x70x into anniversaries by using their pads.  You can also "own" both types of sounds if you own both pairs of pads.  No need to keep two headphone around..
   
  The bad news is, I don't know which can I like more!  They both do some things well. 
   
  As was ruled out earlier in the thread, the changes aren't just limited to bass, nor are they just limited to bass mids and treble.  I also detect some soundstage changes as well.
   
  This is where the Q701 still appears to have an advantage.  It's main strong points are the soundstage size, sound separation, and air.  The K702 65s strong points are the thicker bass (obviously), as well as the rest of the balance being a bit thicker and weightier, more "musical" as head-fi would call it. It's a little warmer and a little darker.  BUT, the soundstage sounds a bit more intimate and upfront, whereas the Q701 still sounds more laid back and spacious.
   
  My first thoughts after hearing the soundstage were, _"OK, so the bass isn't "free."  Those flatter non-angled pads are compressing the soundstage." _ I'm not 100% positive though, because I heard the anniversaries throw a couple sounds out pretty far, at a similar distance as the Q701.  So now I'm running some more tests to try and further disect the soundstage differences to see how much of the soundstage differences come from a byproduct of the weightier sound, and how much of it comes from actual having flatter pads and what role they are playing. 
   
  I don't want to conflate a weightier sound with a smaller soundstage, because that's the impression you get at first listen (similar to how some people say the Q701 soundstage is smaller than older x70x).  _Possibly_ the soundstage sizes are similar, but the 65s have more sound trying to fill up the same space (soundstage size) or even slightly smaller, which means you can't have as clear separation as some sounds start to bump into each other.
   
  Or possibly the flatter pads are indeed a bit detrimental to the soundstage, and pan the sounds harder to the sides and decrease the depth.  Still working on analyzing that.  The flattest part of the Q701 pad is just about the same size as the entire anniversary pad.
   
  I also think the anniversary sounds more like a modded Q701 then a universally "improved" Q701.  And judging by the pad swapping I did, it may in fact be primarily a pad "mod".  I wouldn't expect a pad mod to completely improve a headphone without some side effects though.
   
  I think it's safe to say that the anniversary's balance is more general-purpose, where usually the x70x gets recommend more for specific genres (usually instrumental stuff) then others.  If your someone who digs the x70x but listens more outside of it's usual recommended genres, then the anniversary may be a better choice.  If you mainly listen to the "typical" x70x genres though, the original x70x might be better as that extra air and soundstage separation (and size?) is pretty important to those genres.
   
  Still working on it...
   
  Also, the anniversaries are quite sexy looking.
   
  BTW, my initial impressions share some similarities to Blackmore's here >
http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/1515#post_9193460
   
  Also this quote from Preproman from the previous page is pretty accurate _"Q701 = extended treble but not harsh clear crisp balanced with more air.  65th.  Treble rolled off a tab bit but not in a bad way. More bass presence and the mids are more lush.  Still very balanced with less air"_
__________________________
   
  ....I've already listened enough to "normalize" a little to the anniversaries then gone back to the Qs and thought they sounded more "audio-technica-y" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  That's probably the experience you will get when tdocks Q701 arrive.  They will sound thinner, lighter, and brighter (similar to old x70x).  You probably won't like it after normalizing the anniversary sound.  But, the soundstage and imaging are worth paying attention to (and the air is appreciated as well).  Those are BIG for me.
   
  I think they're both balanced in their own way, and are like variations on a similar balance.  Whichever one you've been listening to more may sound more balanced to you. 
   
  So far if I could combine the two, I'd keep the majority of the anniversaries balance, but with the upper air of the Q701 and it's spacier sounding soundstage.
   


   
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/1575#post_9206925
   
  I'm still listening, and adding more as I go.  I will consolidate the impressions all together after I've had more time.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

oh noooooooo... I was hoping that the sound stage wouldn't get smaller.... sigh... oh well.  I'll have to hope that with more burn in that changes....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> oh noooooooo... I was hoping that the sound stage wouldn't get smaller.... sigh... oh well.  I'll have to hope that with more burn in that changes....


 
   
  Yes, me too. 
   
   
  I wouldn't wait for burn-in to change it.  From what I've heard, the pads are making the difference in sound.  And the pads do the same thing with my Q701s.  I swapped the anniversary pads onto my Q701 and it makes them sound like the anniversary - more body, but also more forward.  And my Q701s are WELL burned in.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Yes, me too.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't wait for burn-in to change it.  From what I've heard, the pads are making the difference in sound.  And the pads do the same thing with my Q701s.  I swapped the anniversary pads onto my Q701 and it makes them sound like the anniversary - more body, but also more forward.  And my Q701s are WELL burned in.


 
  Oh man... I just bought a 65th Annie... I should of just got the Pads... well if anything changes please let us know.  Thanks!


----------



## chooka

Thinking of getting ATH-AD900 over AD 700, found a cheap pair on ebay, mainly for gaming but also some movies and music. Basically the same headphone but bigger base?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. I heard the AD900 has worse positional cues and a wonkier soundstage.


----------



## TNL Feedz

Ok, honestly ive read through about 700 pages. ( school sucks -_-) and I'm still confused. I'm a competitive gamer ( that's what I do besides college) and I'm looking for some headphones that would be the best for me. I'm working with a astro mix amp 2013, and looking for something arround 100-200. NEVER
Get Astros, I swear there partnered with dr dre. ( lol)


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





tnl feedz said:


> Ok, honestly ive read through about 700 pages. ( school sucks -_-) and I'm still confused. I'm a competitive gamer ( that's what I do besides college) and I'm looking for some headphones that would be the best for me. I'm working with a astro mix amp 2013, and looking for something arround 100-200. NEVER
> Get Astros, I swear there partnered with dr dre. ( lol)


 
   
  You first need to answer the all the normal prerequisite questions:
   
  1. Do you plan to use it for only gaming, or music also?
  2. Do you need it to be portable (like walking around and it listening), or mainly at a computer?
  3. Do you need good sound isolation or is it ok if sound leaks out or in? (could bother you or other people if its an open vs closed headphone)
  4. I'm assuming you want something with great comfort (As a gamer I understand the need during long sessions)
  5. What is your favorite color?
   
  Think that about sums it up. Answer these (mostly 1-4) and the other forum members will be able to offer you a little more advice.


----------



## TNL Feedz

Just strictly gaming, for music I use my dads ATH-w1000x ( super base heavy -_-). Portabilitys
Not really a problem, as These will probably never see
Day light. Emersive sounds really not what I need either, I need something with the best sound stage. Opens preferred, as I have my own house with myGirlfriend, and she never comes in my gaming room.comfortabilitys not that big of a problem, as long As there not 100 pounds. ( preferably nothing line green -_-)


----------



## Impulse

For $100-200 the Sennheiser HD558/598 would seem like a good choice... Easy to drive, good soundstage, relatively comfortable; you can get the 558 (which is warmer sounding) for close to $100 used.

Not the greatest choice for music or other stuff but still better than something like AT AD700's in that price range. I've only heard the older 555/595 but even those I preferred to the AT... Though if it's strictly for competitive gaming then either would do, depending on price.


----------



## TNL Feedz

Witch one has a better sound stage, and the least amount of base?


----------



## illbleed

Hello everyone.
   
  I've posted before, and im back for more dumb questions! lol.
   
  Well, i bought a pair of dt990 pros, and i love them even if i dont have an amp for them. 
  Heres what im planning right now..
  im trying to get rid of my astro a40 headset (im keeping my mixamp). 
  Im really really considering the q701s, mostly for competitive gaming (like clan matches for Bo2)
  My reason because i feel the a40s lack being able to figure exact points sounds are coming from.
  I use to have a pair of ax720s till they broke on me. I felt those did a better job at directionality than my a40s do.
  So what my question is, can you compare the sound of the a40s to the q701 for me?
  i know that black ops 2 has some of the worst directionality possible.
   
  The reason why im not using my dt 990s(mostly used for music since i listen to a lot of metal, and pc gaming) for the xbox is because i want to be able to buy a mic attachment that plugs into the headphones (you know how you can unplug q701s from the top) 
   
   
  OH! also if you can recommend a mic attachment, cause i cant find the modmic as last time i checked they were sold out -.-.
  sorry for the mess. Just woke up .


----------



## Impulse

tnl feedz said:


> Witch one has a better sound stage, and the least amount of base?




AD700, it's kinda known for it's huge soundstage and anemic bass.




illbleed said:


> The reason why im not using my dt 990s(mostly used for music since i listen to a lot of metal, and pcgaming) for the xbox is because i want to be able to buy a mic attachment that plugs into the headphones (you know how you can unplug q701s from the top)
> 
> 
> OH! also if you can recommend a mic attachment, cause i cant find the modmic as last time i checked they were sold out -.-.
> sorry for the mess. Just woke up .




You mean a mic attachment that goes in between the headphone's cable and the headphone? (like the one V-Moda was gonna sell for the M-100) I would think that would require a whole new cable with the extra channel for the mic (and extra plug at the end or TRSS termination + a splitter).

Don't mind me if you meant something else... The Modmic 2.0 has been back in stock for a while tho, they received new stock just a week ago so I doubt they've sold thru it. Noise canceling and muting versions (3.0/3.1 & 2.1) aren't out yet, they've had QC and compatibility issues with some sound cards.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





impulse said:


> AD700, it's kinda known for it's huge soundstage and anemic bass.
> You mean a mic attachment that goes in between the headphone's cable and the headphone? (like the one V-Moda was gonna sell for the M-100) I would think that would require a whole new cable with the extra channel for the mic (and extra plug at the end or TRSS termination + a splitter).
> 
> Don't mind me if you meant something else... The Modmic 2.0 has been back in stock for a while tho, they received new stock just a week ago so I doubt they've sold thru it. Noise canceling and muting versions (3.0/3.1 & 2.1) aren't out yet, they've had QC and compatibility issues with some sound cards.


 
  oh okay i see. I just checked, but it says pre orders only?
  id def pick up the modmic over any other ones.
  Now just to see if i should get the q701s lol.
  No one wants to buy my a40s T.T


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> oh okay i see. I just checked, but it says pre orders only?
> id def pick up the modmic over any other ones.
> Now just to see if i should get the q701s lol.
> No one wants to buy my a40s T.T


 
   
  You can make your own for less than $5. Just get some cheap cable, 3.5mm jack and grab some electret mics off ebay. A buddy and I did this before (used a coat hanger for the boom) and found the results very good. IMO the modmic is too sensitive for certain open headphones anyways. It won't be as pretty as the modmic, but will certainly get you by in the meantime for a fraction of the cost.
   
  -Erik


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> You can make your own for less than $5. Just get some cheap cable, 3.5mm jack and grab some electret mics off ebay. A buddy and I did this before (used a coat hanger for the boom) and found the results very good. IMO the modmic is too sensitive for certain open headphones anyways. It won't be as pretty as the modmic, but will certainly get you by in the meantime for a fraction of the cost.
> 
> -Erik


 
  okay, sounds kinda hard to make lol.


----------



## TNL Feedz

So your Saying the ad700 would be my best option ?


----------



## Impulse

If they're strictly for competitive gaming then yes, for that purpose they're worth the $100. Comfort seems to be hit or miss, I found them light and comfortable but I guess people with different heads or the fidgety kind might find them too loose etc. I've read you can shape the top metal arc with some rubber bands to adjust the fit tho.


----------



## illbleed

So what would be a better set up..
   
  dt990 Pros with a desktop amp (recommended?) plus mod mic/ mic attachement
   
   
  q701 with mixamp plus mod mic?
   
  i can only really afford to buy the q701, or keep my ddt990s and just buy a amp plus a mod mic.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

q701 with mixamp plus mod mic.
  Quote: 





illbleed said:


> So what would be a better set up..
> 
> dt990 Pros with a desktop amp (recommended?) plus mod mic/ mic attachement
> 
> ...


----------



## chooka

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. I heard the AD900 has worse positional cues and a wonkier soundstage.


 
*Ok I'll get the AD700 brand new for the same price*. Thanks mate.
  Any suggestion on an accompanying mic? from this* list *
   
  Also I hear the Plantronics Gamecon 780 isn't bad for gaming, I knows it's usb connection (I guess it simulates 7.1 surround), your thoughts? Only reason i ask this is because I had a cheap pair of plantronics headphones in the past and it was my best headphone better than Sennheiser PC350 which have been complete crap for gaming, if i only bought the PC360 maybe, but I won't be buying sennheiser again. I have asus sonar dx sound card on my new computer
   
But you're saying Sennheiser HD 598 Headphones are pretty good for gaming? I only want to work out the position of enemy and stuff in game, not asking a lot.
   
I've also owned steel series siberia v2 - complete crap for gaming, comfortable though, but crap for gaming.
Logitech G35 - more crap. The only good thing logitech have made is their earlier mice MX518 & MX510 and their G9 (their G500 was like using a house brick), I have their G510 Keyboard and it's very ordinary. Who wants to look down at a stats display on the keyboard, by the time you do that you're dead in game from taking your eyes off the screen. And a lot of mechanical keyboards are overrated. The amount of gaming BS these companies release that is crap is criminal. Although the best keyboard for movement in game I owned was a razer lycosa, very tactile keyboard and good keys but i wore it out after a couple of years. 
   
rant over


----------



## Evshrug

impulse said:


> If they're strictly for competitive gaming then yes, for that purpose they're worth the $100. Comfort seems to be hit or miss, I found them light and comfortable but I guess people with different heads or the fidgety kind might find them too loose etc. I've read you can shape the top metal arc with some rubber bands to adjust the fit tho.



I actually bent the top arcs of mine, just a little. A bend inward at the middle, then a bend outward partway along each side, resulting in a more straight up/down fit more flush against the head instead of pointing at the bottom of the ear/mid-jaw area. But like I said, I only bent it a little, most people wouldn't (haven't) noticed by looking at it. Years later I thought I'd go ahead and "tie" together the headband "wings" with a rubber band (just happened to find one the perfect size in my GF's... uh, doctor totchkies bag?), which increased clamping pressure but also makes the earcups sit even more balanced on the ears, as now there is pressure on the top part of the ears as well as the bottom.

I should just put mine up for "adoption," lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I actually bent the top arcs of mine, just a little. A bend inward at the middle, then a bend outward partway along each side, resulting in a more straight up/down fit more flush against the head instead of pointing at the bottom of the ear/mid-jaw area. But like I said, I only bent it a little, most people wouldn't (haven't) noticed by looking at it. Years later I thought I'd go ahead and "tie" together the headband "wings" with a rubber band (just happened to find one the perfect size in my GF's... uh, doctor totchkies bag?), which increased clamping pressure but also makes the earcups sit even more balanced on the ears, as now there is pressure on the top part of the ears as well as the bottom.
> 
> I should just put mine up for "adoption," lol.


 
   
  That's pretty much the same way I bent mine.  I just made them so the bottom and top of the pad hit at the same time, instead of the bottom hitting first and annoying the jaw.


----------



## Impulse

illbleed said:


> So what would be a better set up..
> 
> dt990 Pros with a desktop amp (recommended?) plus mod mic/ mic attachement
> 
> ...




That's a tough one... If both are properly amp'd it's kind of a matter of personal preference between the DT 990 & Q701, and you did say you were loving the former even without an amp no?

You could try getting an amp like the Magni ($100, cheaper than a new pair of headphones) in order to figure out what you may be missing right now, it should absolutely make a difference for the Beyers... But if for some reason it disappoints you can just return it and then look at other headphones/options (tho realistically the Q701 need an amp to play optimally as well).

I'm assuming you'd keep the mixamp either way since you already have it, the way your post's worded makes it seem like you'd only have it with the 701's.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





impulse said:


> That's a tough one... If both are properly amp'd it's kind of a matter of personal preference between the DT 990 & Q701, and you did say you were loving the former even without an amp no?
> 
> You could try getting an amp like the Magni ($100, cheaper than a new pair of headphones) in order to figure out what you may be missing right now, it should absolutely make a difference for the Beyers... But if for some reason it disappoints you can just return it and then look at other headphones/options (tho realistically the Q701 need an amp to play optimally as well).
> 
> I'm assuming you'd keep the mixamp either way since you already have it, the way your post's worded makes it seem like you'd only have it with the 701's.


 
  no you were right, id use it for either headphones (the mixamp).
  I see.. i do love my dt990s, but i guess i just feel like spending. lol. 
  i almost bought a pair of q701s for 170 today, but someone out bid me T.T
  but i think ill try buying an amp.. i just really wanna get the q701s cause i hear so many good things.


----------



## Impulse

You can always buy the Q701 the next time you spot a deal and then sell the Beyers, they've got a decent resale value.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If I get the D7000, I'm gonna order some Lawton pads, which are real leather. Having used the LCD2, I see that leather pads are a bit better in comfort than pleather. My skin doesn't stick to it, and doesn't irritate it as much. I still would prefer velour, but I can live with leather pads.
> 
> That's a big if. Guess we'll find out in 5 days.
> 
> Not gonna lie, if the HE-400 was with me right now, I'd have a listing up on the FS section. If it sold, then yes, the D7000 would be a yes.


 
  MLE, have you considered trying the Audeze Vegan Pads for the D7000?  I know they'll fit, but I've not seen anyone try the Vegan Pads specifically on any Denons.  They're a little cheaper too!
   
  LCD-2 Pads on some Denons:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm afraid of what it will do to the sound. I was thinking of just getting some Lawton pads, but now you got me curious. Does Audeze have a return period for the pads? I'm close to getting a D7000, so...


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm afraid of what it will do to the sound. I was thinking of just getting some Lawton pads, but now you got me curious. Does Audeze have a return period for the pads? I'm close to getting a D7000, so...


 
  I've never purchased anything from them personally so I'm not sure, but based on what others have said there is little to no effect on the sound aside from reports of slightly more soundstage.  This of course would be on LCD-2 and LCD-3 themselves, so I can't say how they'd effect the D7000.  They look insanely comfy, though...I thought I'd mention it because I've seen you prefer velour and the like, plus they would kinda match the D7000 cups. 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/586157/audeze-lcd-2-vegan-earpads-feedback-installation-mini-review
http://www.head-fi.org/t/636157/audeze-vegan-pads-vs-lambskin-comfort-and-sound
   
  No harm in asking Audeze if they have a return policy on the pads, though: http://audeze.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new


----------



## Toxos

soo I really like my pc360's! I can only compare them to the razer's i had before and uh.. yeah I like them a lot! thank you envy for helping put this all together so I could make a decision


----------



## illbleed

still cant decide between the q701 or just keeping my dt 990s and using those as my main headphones plus a modmic.
  Really wish i could try them out at best buy -.-.
   
  I could just get an amp and a modmic to make my dt990s become my ultimate headphones.
  How do the desktop amps work? cause im looking at the fiio e9k, and im not sure if i need to buy a fiio e17 for it to actually work. Can i just use the fiio e9k as the amp?
  or it doesnt work like that? damn such noob questions lol...
   
  can anyone explain what amping really does?


----------



## catspaw

The Fiio E9 will work without the E17 (thou you probably will need some cables to connect to it).
  Amps basicly add more "power" (in layman terms) so that the sound is more full (there are no frequencies left behind) and increse volume.
  Good headphones almost always benefit from amping, but how much is it worth it, is very subjective.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JUST got home. What I'm gonna do is find a few tracks I can identify easily with the Annie. Then I will quickly swap out the pads and put them on the Q701, as well as using the Annie stock cable on the Q701. This will keep them as true to the Annie as possible. Will post my findings soonish.

Using the Annie pads on the Q701, and Q701 pads on the Annie. Can definitely tell the Annie is airier with less bass in this configuration. The detachable cable makes A/B testing much easier/faster.

*First test is Q701 with both pads.*

Hmm... despite the differences in tonal characteristics between pads, I must say the Q701 pads and Annie pads aren't night and day. It's literally a change between sub bass extension and treble/air, and it's not HUGE. I have to say BOTH pads are great. The Q701 pads decay the bass a bit faster, and sub bass is not as extended, but mid bass is similar. The vocals are brighter and a bit sharper in comparison to the Annie pads, but there is a sparkle that is not as evident on the Annie pads. The Annie pads soften that sharpness, and do make things just a hint warmer and less fatiguing, though not as immedately airy. I have to say, I do prefer the Annie pads. It sounds fuller and more rounded, more organic/natural, IMHO.

*Second test is comparing the Annie vs Q701 headphones with the Annie pads:*

I'm not able to swap FAST enough, but I SWEAR, Tdock's Q701 is voiced just a hint brighter than my Annie. Not sure if it's driver variation or burn-in, etc, but it is brighter, even with Annie pads. Either way, I do prefer the Q701 with Annie pads than the Q701 pads, so whether it's the same exact sound out of the headphones or not, I say the Annie pads are worth it, IMHO.

Either way, make no mistake, they are either the same sonically, or they are nearly 98% the same with a slight more warmth out of the Annie, though my Annie isn't as burned in as tdock's Q701, if you believe in that... what I do know is that my Annie is warmer and more bottom heavy and not as airy as his Q701 with the Annie pads. 

edit: Absolutely. My Annie is warmer. Not a huge difference, but I can hear it. So it doesn't sound identical to HIS Q701, but it's close-ish. I don't want to commit to saying it is or isn't the same, but either way, the sound is very close, so if you own the Q701 and are fine with the headband, it's worth trying out the Annie pads.

Just remember, two of the same headphone can sound slightly different. Case in point, I had THREE DT990/600ohms in my house at the same time, and they all sounded a hair different from one another, one of them being noticeably more bassy and mid recessed compared to the other two.

*I venture to say that tdock's Q701 sounds MORE balanced and airy with the Annie pads, than my Annie! It's not as bassy, but it sounds more linear and not as smoothened up on the treble, making it more 'flat'. If his Q701 is balanced, my Annie slightly darker than balanced in comparison. It's noticeable. I'm wondering what the change could be. It's close, but it's either slight driver variation, burn in, or god knows what. But it's evident. More bass and body, less air, and warmer tone on my Annie vs Q701 with the same pads.*

*Test 3 is Annie stock vs Q701 stock:*

This is the truest comparison, as you can hear what the Annie has in comparison to the Q701.

Impressions to come at a later date.


----------



## Makiah S

<3, my dt 990s have arrived today and my Mad Dogs will be in soon as well  YAY, also my odac sounds magical


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, boy. Going all out! How are the 990s?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Damn, boy. Going all out! How are the 990s?


 
  TELL ME ABOUT IT, but the 990s r at home im still in class... but OMG MAD DOGS GET HERE
   
  I wanna hear em both. But So excited [it sucks I have to work tonight...]
   
  but I'll let u guys know... Oh I'm also putting a clear top RCA 12ua7 into my indeed G3


----------



## Impulse

illbleed said:


> How do the desktop amps work? cause im looking at the fiio e9k, and im not sure if i need to buy a fiio e17 for it to actually work. Can i just use the fiio e9k as the amp?
> or it doesnt work like that? damn such noob questions lol...
> 
> can anyone explain what amping really does?




The E17 is a combination amp/DAC, so it's useful as a serviceable amp as well as a source (either thru USB from a computer or by connecting another player or whatever thru optical or line in)... It just happens to have a custom dock connection for using the E09K as it's amp when docked.

The E09K can absolutely be used as an independent amp just like a Magni or an O2, those two are slightly better or more versatile amps tho... Without an E17 you only really have one input on the E09K, the USB port is strictly for feeding a docked E17 and the other RCA jacks are outputs (pre-amp and line out).

I'd probably go for one of the other two if you're not getting the E17 for use at a PC or whatever, since they'll handle a wider variety of headphones with ease... Though if you think you'll get the E17 at a later date then the E09K ends up being more versatile (more inputs, tone controls, etc).

No matter which amp you get, you'd basically go from the Mixamp's output (or your sound card's output) to the amp's input and then you plug the headphones into the amp.

All audio signals are electrically amplified to one extent or another at some point in the chain, I'll leave the finer details to Google or someone else. Dedicated headphone amps just do a better job of driving high end headphones than most gear (like the Mixamp) where amplification is an afterthought.

Like someone else said before tho, it isn't strictly about volume.


----------



## Impulse

mshenay said:


> TELL ME ABOUT IT, but the 990s r at home im still in class... but OMG MAD DOGS GET HERE




Sweet, would love to hear what you think once you've got both... I'm pretty sure I'm getting some the Mad Dogs later as well, just gotta carve out some time to give them a proper listen thru the 15 return window (and maybe compare them against something else I'll order simultaneously).


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ...so if you own the Q701 and are fine with the headband, it's worth trying out the Annie pads.


 
   
  And now I'm wishing I hadn't read this today.  Mad Dogs only here for a week and I'm already considering my next purchase. However, I can say with certainty that the MDs will not be going back. They're here to stay.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





impulse said:


> The E17 is a combination amp/DAC, so it's useful as a serviceable amp as well as a source (either thru USB from a computer or by connecting another player or whatever thru optical or line in)... It just happens to have a custom dock connection for using the E09K as it's amp when docked.
> 
> The E09K can absolutely be used as an independent amp just like a Magni or an O2, those two are slightly better or more versatile amps tho... Without an E17 you only really have one input on the E09K, the USB port is strictly for feeding a docked E17 and the other RCA jacks are outputs (pre-amp and line out).
> 
> ...


 
   
  okay,
  thanks a lot for helping me out.
  I think imma stick with my dt 990s, and just get an amp plus mod mic.
  Since i do love the way they make games sound. When its down to competitive gaming its all about gun skill anyways lol.
  I see, i was looking for the magni but i couldnt find it on amazon. Ill try ebay.
  My mix amp works but i have to turn up the volume past half to make it loud enough.
   
  edit: i couldnt find either amps you recommended.


----------



## Bayonetwork

First post longtime lurker hello everyone!
Need a recommendation for a pair of cans ive searched and read this guide several times:
Budget: 300ish
Where: mostly at home but wouldn't mind some portability and passive noise cancelling.
Primary use: mostly gaming (70% fun 30% competitive). But really want them to sound good for all types of rock music. 
Power: mixamp 2013. Can get portable amp if needed.
Sound: something that can handle primarily fun gaming but also does well with competitive gaming. I will listen to a lot of music with them too. So large soundstage, fun bass but not bleeding into midrange, smooth treble and preferably not to fatiguing. Also something fairly easy to drive as all I have is a mixamp.
What I've looked at or tried: astro a40 but disliked it for many reasons. q701 but worried about lack of bass and "fun" factor as well as fatigue. Senn amperior, b&w p5 (no good for gaming). 
So this will be my first set of decent cans. One thought was to buy two pairs, one for gaming, one for music. Or one do it all pair and a portable amp if necessary. 
Thanks so much for any help!


----------



## TNL Feedz

Just bought the ad700  Review Coming soon guys


----------



## Heretic817

mad lust envy said:


> No. I heard the AD900 has worse positional cues and a wonkier soundstage.




Just my two cents on ad900. I remember positioning to be good as well as sound stage.

But

Treble was piercing at the volume I wanted and comfort was absolute non starter. Drivers touched my ears and mine are small. Pads practically rested on my cheek bones.

Perfect cans for huge heads tiny ears and screechy treble lovers. No thank you.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> okay,
> thanks a lot for helping me out.
> I think imma stick with my dt 990s, and just get an amp plus mod mic.
> Since i do love the way they make games sound. When its down to competitive gaming its all about gun skill anyways lol.
> ...


 
  magni can be found at http://schiit.com/
   
  The O2 is an open-source amp and can be found at various retailers, but the most popular iteration can be found at http://www.jdslabs.com/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bayonetwork said:


> First post longtime lurker hello everyone!
> Need a recommendation for a pair of cans ive searched and read this guide several times:
> Budget: 300ish
> Where: mostly at home but wouldn't mind some portability and passive noise cancelling.
> ...




Q701 and find out where to get the Anniversary's memory foam pads. It will more or less make them sound like the Annies, meaning complete all rounders. Borrowed my friend's Q701 and I'm using thr Annie's pads. It sounds very close to the Annie. I'm sure its the same, but driver variation makes them sound a little different.

So yes, my recommendation from now on for those that can't straight afford to get an Annie, if to get the K702/Q701 and buy a separate pair of Annie pads. You save about $100+, though it won't be as comfy as the Annie, due to the headband bumps.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





bayonetwork said:


> First post longtime lurker hello everyone!
> Need a recommendation for a pair of cans ive searched and read this guide several times:
> Budget: 300ish
> Where: mostly at home but wouldn't mind some portability and passive noise cancelling.
> ...


 
  Welcome!
  With a budget of $300 you're well into the territory of affording both an amp as well as a decent pair of phones. While some HPs may benefit more than others, all will see in improvement in SQ with an amp. 
   
  However if forgoing the amp, then might I suggest some Bayers. You'll need to determine how important portability will be though. I could only see myself using the 770s in public due to the closed design. If portability is not too big of a concern, or if your not as concerned with sound leakage while on the move, then the 990s will give you a bigger soundstage with a small decrease in sub bass. My only gripe with the 990 Pro 250ohms is a slight amount of simblance that occurs very rarely (usually with female vocals).  
   
  I wouldn't go so far as to discount the Q701  just off the lack of bass... It not that he lower frequencies vanish, but rather they do not have the basshead punch that other HPs have. Think bookshelf speaker vs subwoofer. Then again, for portability, leakage will be a concern with these as well. 
   
  If you're in the US than I'd say order 2 pairs off of Amazon (make sure its shipped and sold by amazon) and either keep or return both, in any case you'll just have to spend the return fee, rather than trying to sell them. The other option would be to check out a music supply store... some have demo models.
   
  oh and sorry 'bout your wallet!


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Q701 and find out where to get the Anniversary's memory foam pads. It will more or less make them sound like the Annies, meaning complete all rounders. Borrowed my friend's Q701 and I'm using thr Annie's pads. It sounds very close to the Annie. I'm sure its the same, but driver variation makes them sound a little different.
> 
> So yes, my recommendation from now on for those that can't straight afford to get an Annie, if to get the K702/Q701 and buy a separate pair of Annie pads. You save about $100+, though it won't be as comfy as the Annie, due to the headband bumps.


 
  Makes me want to organize a group buy from HK for a bulk order of Annie pads... 
  MLE/Chico/EV/TD/(or anyone familiar with K/Q 701/2s) going off this diagram part #19 is the only one that needs to be replaced...correct? http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/4/k70248b2a8664eaf0.pdf or would a combination of parts be preferable as to just swap out an entire pad assembly?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just the pads.

You might also wanna look into the K601 headband for the extra comfort, and it should be much cheaper than the Annie headband. The Annie headband and pads alone would just make it better to buy the Annie outright.

Still headband swapping seems difficult for these headphones.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> magni can be found at http://schiit.com/
> 
> The O2 is an open-source amp and can be found at various retailers, but the most popular iteration can be found at http://www.jdslabs.com/


 
  The only problem with the Magni/Schiit here in Europe, it costs 120£ or something, a little more then the O2 amp :S.
   
  At last i have ordered me a pair of DT 990 250 ohm premium, just because of the look .
  So now i'm just looking for an amp, o2, magni, some tube ?.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A tube amp that favors high impedance headphones would be the best bet for the 990s.


----------



## Evshrug

grymok said:


> The only problem with the Magni/Schiit here in Europe, it costs 120£ or something, a little more then the O2 amp :S.
> 
> At last i have ordered me a pair of DT 990 250 ohm premium, just because of the look .
> So now i'm just looking for an amp, o2, magni, some tube ?.



The main European builder of the Objective2 (O2) amp is Epiphany Acoustics, FYI. I'm assuming you already knew that tho. The Schiit Audio Magni amp is on Schiit.com and ships from the US, I think.
I've read good things about the latest "Indeed" Chinese-made eBay tube amps, and the "Project Sunrise" amp made by Jeremy (USA) as an upgraded version of the Indeed amps, *but* I have been having a great personal experience with a single-ended-triode Class A tube amp made by head-fi'er Zigis, which he calls the Rock 'n Glass. Zigis is in Europe/Latvia if that matters to you.


----------



## Bayonetwork

mad lust envy said:


> Q701 and find out where to get the Anniversary's memory foam pads. It will more or less make them sound like the Annies, meaning complete all rounders. Borrowed my friend's Q701 and I'm using thr Annie's pads. It sounds very close to the Annie. I'm sure its the same, but driver variation makes them sound a little different.
> 
> So yes, my recommendation from now on for those that can't straight afford to get an Annie, if to get the K702/Q701 and buy a separate pair of Annie pads. You save about $100+, though it won't be as comfy as the Annie, due to the headband bumps.







ruuku said:


> Makes me want to organize a group buy from HK for a bulk order of Annie pads...
> MLE/Chico/EV/TD/(or anyone familiar with K/Q 701/2s) going off this diagram part #19 is the only one that needs to be replaced...correct? http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/4/k70248b2a8664eaf0.pdf or would a combination of parts be preferable as to just swap out an entire pad assembly?




So looks like its about $70 to get a pair of the Annie pads. 

Now next question is where to buy the black q701 for 250. Amazon has them at 290 right now.

Also would an amp be necessary for these to chain along with my mixamp for gaming? I rarely use chat and if I do I put my Xbox mic around my neck.


----------



## Evshrug

I used to do that for a mic too, but the lapel mic works better (louder for everyone else). Part of that I think was because I used a platronics headset mic, which was unidirectional and probably not quite angled right towards my mouth.
   
  I _guess_ you could buy the black Q701. IMO the white was my preference, (so I lucked out), but your free to have your own taste. It looks like the Q701's price has spiked up a little since the Anniversaries came out, the price may go down again at some point. I suggest you set up a notification on camelcamelcamel.com for when the price reaches your target, a very useful site (so is pcpartspicker.com, but that's for different products)


----------



## kenshinhimura

bayonetwork said:


> So looks like its about $70 to get a pair of the Annie pads.
> 
> Now next question is where to buy the black q701 for 250. Amazon has them at 290 right now.
> 
> Also would an amp be necessary for these to chain along with my mixamp for gaming? I rarely use chat and if I do I put my Xbox mic around my neck.




These run on my turtle beach dss fine and i think the mixamp puts out more power than the dss so you should be good without chat


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Talk to Chicolom who may be selling his black Q701...


----------



## Evshrug

Yes, the Q701 sounds good and is an improvement over most headsets even straight out of a sound processor (like DSS, Mixamp, Recon3D USB), but a more powerful & well implemented headphone amp definitely is another step-up in quality.


----------



## Bayonetwork

evshrug said:


> I used to do that for a mic too, but the lapel mic works better (louder for everyone else). Part of that I think was because I used a platronics headset mic, which was unidirectional and probably not quite angled right towards my mouth.
> 
> I _guess_ you could buy the black Q701. IMO the white was my preference, (so I lucked out), but your free to have your own taste. It looks like the Q701's price has spiked up a little since the Anniversaries came out, the price may go down again at some point. I suggest you set up a notification on camelcamelcamel.com for when the price reaches your target, a very useful site (so is pcpartspicker.com, but that's for different products)







kenshinhimura said:


> These run on my turtle beach dss fine and i think the mixamp puts out more power than the dss so you should be good without chat







evshrug said:


> Yes, the Q701 sounds good and is an improvement over most headsets even straight out of a sound processor (like DSS, Mixamp, Recon3D USB), but a more powerful & well implemented headphone amp definitely is another step-up in quality.



Thanks for the help guys ill hold off on an amp for now. I really want the black ones I like the stealth look.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Q701 and find out where to get the Anniversary's memory foam pads. It will more or less make them sound like the Annies, meaning complete all rounders. Borrowed my friend's Q701 and I'm using thr Annie's pads. It sounds very close to the Annie. I'm sure its the same, but driver variation makes them sound a little different.
> 
> So yes, my recommendation from now on for those that can't straight afford to get an Annie, if to get the K702/Q701 and buy a separate pair of Annie pads. You save about $100+, though it won't be as comfy as the Annie, due to the headband bumps.


 
  Unless the headband doesn't bother you already.


----------



## Grymok

Pulled the trigger on this http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00193FT26/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
  But have been reading a little in the beyerdynamic dt 990 2005 edition thread, and a light just powered on. Is the version i have ordered, an OLD model, which is worse than this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT-990-Premium-Headphone/dp/B00193FT26/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1362260869&sr=1-1-catcorr
  Or am I just too curious? :S.


----------



## theman1285

Hi, I am looking to get more power to my akg q701 for gaming on a playstation 3. I use the modmic microphone for gaming all the time. My current setup is ps3 - mixamp - q701. I am looking to possibly double amp. I want another amp that will get more power to the q701 and allow me to hear better aka have some breathing room to really crank up the sound. Because right now the mixamp is at its max trying to power the q701.

I have been looking at including the Fiio E9K amp but do you have another suggestion in relatively the same price rage? I have no need for portability in an amp.


----------



## kenshinhimura

You can see if the e11 has enough power for you. Got posted in deals thread for like $43 like new


----------



## Impulse

The usual suspects for desk amps at around $100 besides the E9/E09K are the Magni & O2.

Magni: more powerful and possibly a better choice for lower impedance headphones and/or those with an uneven impedance curve (unlike the AKG 700-series and orthos), more versatile in that regard.

O2: similar upsides as the Magni vs the E9, tho it can look more cluttered with the front jacks and I think it costs a little more too. You could tinker with the opamps on it to tweak the sound tho, if you're into that.

E09K: more versatile overall when you dock E17 into it, you gain multiple inputs, basic EQ'ing etc. Without the docked DAC it just has a couple outputs for hooking up powered speakers or daisy chaining other amps, which is useful in it's own right.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wondering where the HE400 it atm. Hoping it's on it's way to Calpis, as hopefully Fri/Sat it can be shipped out to the buyer.


----------



## Evshrug

I took it to the post office at 4:30 today after work: sadly they closed at 4. So right now, it's boxed up by my bed. I don't have work Monday till 3 so I can send it in the morning before the first truck out, but I might upgrade the shipping speed to try and make up some time. I know Calpis is awaiting his ODAC too. Mad, would you like some DSLR photos of the HE-400 tomorrow, or did you already sell the headphone?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad, would you like some DSLR photos of the HE-400 tomorrow, or did you already sell the headphone?


 
   
  LOL.
   
  I took a couple too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I miss them already.

I'll find out if I won the D7000 in about 8 hours...


----------



## calpis

Pffft! You guys and your fancy DSLR photos. I'll be taking pics of it with my Sony DSC-F707. PSHAWWW


----------



## ruuku

Nice pic Chico.. what focal length/aperture are you using?
   
  Mad- Fingers crossed for you bro...


----------



## Evshrug

Nice Chico.
I just felt bad, and was trying to think of some way to balance things out.

Mad,
I did enjoy them, especially with some tracks, and I did listen more to give them more of a fair chance after Calpis said he wasn't in a huge rush via PM. Black Ops' music injections in multiplayer stood out to me along with the regular gaming audio. I didn't think I'd have them this long though. I was also hoping to pick up new wooden side panels for my tube amp from the post office - I've had their "sign to give permission to leave package" card filled out and taped to my front door since the 26th, but they didn't drop it off. The post office is really hurting for business in our area... wonder why? UPS ships through a local business that is a little out of the way, but that could be an option too.


----------



## calpis

Ouch, my bad Ev, I really should have mentioned that Mad sold them like a day later after that pm. I'll take less time with them though, I have to house sit on Friday anyways so I wouldn't even be able to use them for the weekend.


----------



## Evshrug

ruuku said:


> Nice pic Chico.. what focal length/aperture are you using?
> 
> Mad- Fingers crossed for you bro...




50mm f/1.8? Maybe f/2

Calpis,
The best camera is the one you have with you, right?
I'm really sorry... Also, I would think house sitting would be the perfect opportunity to listen to headphones?


----------



## calpis

I have an old Nikon D1 dslr but it's a pain to use because the batteries suck for that thing. It also needs a good sensor cleaning. Also have a Canon/Kodak D2000 that's impossible to find batteries/chargers for. I like my Sony though, but its weird shape and 128mb max capacity makes it a pain to use outside. The pics that Mad used for the Q's were from my Sony.


----------



## Evshrug

Oooooh, the D1 was a classy piece of kit, and I used to have an Olympus E500 that had a really special quality to the color with it's Kodak sensor and finely-tuned tone balance. Many of the Panasonic sensors have a weird green tinge, especially in blues that, you know, never show up because the sky isn't blue or anything. Totally uninterested in the E-P3 generation of Olympus cameras because the color is off, though the OM-D is a beaut which I think was a collaboration between Olympus and Sony.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll find out if I won the D7000 in about 8 hours...


 
   
   
  Are you auto-sniping it?
   
   
  Quote: 





calpis said:


> Pffft! You guys and your fancy DSLR photos. I'll be taking pics of it with my *Sony DSC-F707*. PSHAWWW


 
   
  LOL
   
  I remember that old camera.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Back then I decided to go with a Pansonic FZ10 super zoom instead.  432mm zoom at constant f 2.8 with IS!  I loved that old thing.
    
  Quote:


ruuku said:


> Nice pic Chico.. what focal length/aperture are you using?


 
   
  Thanks. 
   
  EXIF says that one was 135mm @ 5.6 (surprisingly)
   
  I've got some hawt shots of the K702 anniversary coming up too...(view original size if you dare 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> 50mm f/1.8? Maybe f/2


 
   
  Speaking of apertures...
   
  Which type of pic do you guys like better on headphones: shallow DOF or greater DOF?
   
  I took some both ways.  Here's a gif of both types....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. I dont wann pay more than $650. If I don't win, I'm okay with that.

CHICO, PUT YOUR QS FOR SALE. 

Was watching a movie today, and the Annie pads really showed a marked improvement in immersion compared to the Q pads. Like it sounded similar, but the bass met with the mids, whereas the Q pads had similar sounding bass IF I raised the volume waaaay up, to the point of it making mids and treble ear shatteringly loud.

I personally don't see any reason to own Q pads, as the small benefit of air doesn't compare to the benefit of a fuller l, more fleshed out sound. ANNIE BABY


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nah. I dont wann pay more than $650. If I don't win, I'm okay with that.
> 
> CHICO, PUT YOUR QS FOR SALE.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  As soon as the weekend is through, I going to sell them.  It'll be sad to see them go.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I'm still buying the angled pads at $15 a piece.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  For instrumental music, that air can be really important sometimes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For $15, it's an easy choice. I would too, if I felt I ever needed them.

7 more hours! Once that auction is over, I'll be getting some Lawton lambskin leather pads for the D7K. Assuming all goes well, lol.

Edit: bah, outbid. All bids are coming in now. Lol $810. Forget that. I'd hold out on an LCD2 for that price...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Somehow, I get a feeling that your very praise for the D7000s is what's driving the price up, along with their discontinuation.
   
  I've probably done the same thing to vintage Stax setups for all I know, given that a typical Normal bias Lambda will sell for a pretty penny these days...the very model I want most.
   
  Still selling those HE-400s, even with that D7000 having slipped your grasp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the HE400 has been sold for days now. The buyer knows he has to wait though.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Pulled the trigger on this http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00193FT26/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> But have been reading a little in the beyerdynamic dt 990 2005 edition thread, and a light just powered on. Is the version i have ordered, an OLD model???
> 
> Or is that one the newest?


 
  Anyone knows this?.


----------



## ruuku

Seeing how quickly Amazon's turn around on products is  (at least here in the US), I would highly doubt that they would have a 2005 model laying around; unless it was through a 3rd party seller. Do you know the return policies of amazon.de? If its anything like its US counterpart then exchanges are fairly easy and painless, should the need to return them arise. 
   



mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the HE400 has been sold for days now. The buyer knows he has to wait though.


   
  Small price to pay for such a great deal on the HE's.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Speaking of apertures...
> 
> Which type of pic do you guys like better on headphones: shallow DOF or greater DOF?
> 
> I took some both ways.  Here's a gif of both types....


 
  I'd have to go with the greater dof.... the back bokeh doesn't pull my interest as much as the detail in the serial#... just my opinion fwiw. The plain white background might have something to do with it though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

2005 Editions are the ones currently sold. No worries


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 2005 Editions are the ones currently sold. No worries


 
  PYYYYYH .
  That's nice to know.
  Do they have plans to release a new version/upgraded version og the DT990, since it's 8 years ago, they came available ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think so. I think they're remaining and focusing on the Tesla line, though I did hear their next plans are a Custom One Pro version of the 880s.


----------



## illbleed

im about to order an antlion modmic..
  so the only thing i need to get them to work with my dt990s are a y splitter correct? to hook to my mixamp.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> im about to order an antlion modmic..
> so the only thing i need to get them to work with my dt990s are a y splitter correct? to hook to my mixamp.


 
   
  A Y-splitter with a 4 pole connection on the end. Be sure to check if the one you are getting will work.
   
  Didn't your mixamp already come with one? Or do you still have to get the Mixamp as well? New ones come with the Y-adapter.
   
  In my experience so far with the Mixamp I find that it gives a little bit of background static noise when connected to the controller mic port of a WIRED Xbox 360 controller. With the wireless controller it sounds fine.
   
  Reports all over Google that Xbox is very noisy when it comes to the USB connections.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> im about to order an antlion modmic..
> so the only thing i need to get them to work with my dt990s are a y splitter correct? to hook to my mixamp.


 
  Search Amazon for a Startech HEADSET splitter.


----------



## illbleed

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> A Y-splitter with a 4 pole connection on the end. Be sure to check if the one you are getting will work.
> 
> Didn't your mixamp already come with one? Or do you still have to get the Mixamp as well? New ones come with the Y-adapter.
> 
> ...


 
  no it came with the opposite for some reason. Its only lets you plug in one thing, but has two that plug into your pc i guess.
   
  Edit: a PC Splitter.
   
  is this the correct one?
  http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1362332373&sr=8-3&keywords=HEADSET+splitter


----------



## theman1285

Is it possible to add an extra amp to the 2013 astro mixamp? I need an extra amp to help fully power AKG Q701 headphones with a mic. Right now the 2013 mixamp is topped out.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





illbleed said:


> no it came with the opposite for some reason. Its only lets you plug in one thing, but has two that plug into your pc i guess.
> 
> Edit: a PC Splitter.
> 
> ...


 
  That's the one.


----------



## OnePunchMan

So, I'm gonna invest in the ad700's for my birthday at the end of the month, but I want a good amp to invest in too so I can get the most out of the 700's. I don't know anything about amps other than the mixamp but I figure if I can get more out of the headphones I'd be willing to pay a little more. Would prefer a portable amp but If need be I'll take a non portable one. I'd also like it to be idiot proof since I am technologically challenged


----------



## theman1285

Are you looking to game with the ad700's? like on pc, ps3, or xbox 360?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ad700 doesn't need an amp at all.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Do they have plans to release a new version/upgraded version og the DT990, since it's 8 years ago, they came available ?


 
   
  AFAIK the T90 _is_ the new upgrade version of the DT990.  Or the spiritual successor at least.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I thought the T90s were sound wise much brighter than the 990s?  Most of the newer models of the T's were brighter or am I thinking of another HP...?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> I thought the T90s were sound wise much brighter than the 990s?  Most of the newer models of the T's were brighter or am I thinking of another HP...?


 
   
  The tesla drivers are different than the DT drivers, so they sound different.
   
  That's why I said "spiritual successor"...


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Haha gotcha


----------



## kenshinhimura

theman1285 said:


> Is it possible to add an extra amp to the 2013 astro mixamp? I need an extra amp to help fully power AKG Q701 headphones with a mic. Right now the 2013 mixamp is topped out.




Yes. Check first page before the reviews for the amps.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





hawaiiancerveza said:


> I thought the T90s were sound wise much brighter than the 990s?  Most of the newer models of the T's were brighter or am I thinking of another HP...?


 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The tesla drivers are different than the DT drivers, so they sound different.
> 
> That's why I said "spiritual successor"...


 
   
  If i get to much into this head-fi, which I probably will. Then the T90, looks like some nice cans.
  Could be fun  to try such pair on a good sound card and headphone amp, and then go play some BF3 .


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I read that they are treble hot hence "spiritual successor"... but if you like hot treble by all means disregard what jokes we seem to be poking at the T90.  Go for the experience and share.


----------



## chicolom

My Q701s are officially for sale.
   
  I hope they go on to a good home.  I feel bad sending them away, not knowing where they'll wind up...
   
  FORGIVE ME, Q701s!!!!
   




   
   
_*Edit:  Pending Sale...*_
   
_*Edit: SOLD! *_
_*(that was fast...)*_


----------



## SoAmusing777

Totally forgot, but what are my options for virtual surround in a receiver besides silent cinema and Dolby headphone?


----------



## Grymok

chicolom said:


> My Q701s are officially for sale.
> 
> I hope they go on to a good home.  I feel bad sending them away, not knowing where they'll wind up...
> 
> FORGIVE ME, Q701s!!!!





they live in the states right?.
 not sure how much it will cost to sent them to Denmark?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





grymok said:


> they live in the states right?.
> not sure how much it will cost to sent them to Denmark?


 
   
  Usually it's around $20 to ship around there, but I've already got some buyers interested I'm dealing with...  :\


----------



## illbleed

thanks for everyones help.
  Hopefully ill receive my stuff soon.


----------



## Evshrug

onepunchman said:


> So, I'm gonna invest in the ad700's for my birthday at the end of the month, but I want a good amp to invest in too so I can get the most out of the 700's. I don't know anything about amps other than the mixamp but I figure if I can get more out of the headphones I'd be willing to pay a little more. Would prefer a portable amp but If need be I'll take a non portable one. I'd also like it to be idiot proof since I am technologically challenged



The AD700s sound great straight from my Recon3D USB without extra amping, and I think the amp inside the Mixamp (Mix-*amp*) is slightly more powerful, though more noisy. With the AD700, you don't gain much (lol punny) sound improvement with a dedicated amp, I was plenty happy with just a FiiO E5 amp with stereo connections before I got the surround processor.




soamusing777 said:


> Totally forgot, but what are my options for virtual surround in a receiver besides silent cinema and Dolby headphone?




Most/many other receivers have their own surround processing, but they don't usually bother branding the tech or build-in a lot of adjustability. Before I got my headphone amps, I preferred to send the audio out from the Recon3D to the stereo input of my Yamaha receiver, set to "straight" mode. What headphone do you have now?


----------



## widdyjudas

Audio Technica has updated their AD series, any chance that you will try the AD700/900x or maybe AD1000x? I want to try it, but my local suppliers don't have it yet.
  So far so good with the HE400, I appreciate the recommendation from this thread. however, I got neck pain after 1 hour of gaming/music. My neck can't bear the weight for long time. My GF also loves the sound, but got neck pain after only 20 mins. Now she using my IE8 instead.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I guess if MLE says I don't need an amp, then I don't need one.


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas,
Never say never, but Mad has several times expressed that he doesn't like AT's wings and earpads.
Personally, the wings don't bother me at all, the earpads press my ears flat a bit but it doesn't bother me (I've had gaming sessions as long as 8 hours with my AD700). My issue is the earcups don't have enough pivot axis for adjustment, so if you don't have a wide head most of the clamping pressure is focused on the bottom edge of the earpads, and sometimes the top of the earpads don't touch at all, ruining the seal and making bass weaker. I have been able to make the fit great for me by bending out the headband and rubber-banding together the "wings" so that the clamping pressure is more evenly applied, and I've broken in the pads pretty nicely. They are lighter and apply less pressure than the Q701s, which are lighter still than the HE-400.
Very different sound emphasises between the HE-400 and the AD700.


----------



## Evshrug

onepunchman said:


> I guess if MLE says I don't need an amp, then I don't need one.



Lol, if it helps any, I have several amp choices, and I am perfectly happy using the AD700 straight from my sound processor. So, another vote for no amp _needed_


----------



## theman1285

Astro took out the RCA inputs in their 2013 mixamp. How could I connect/stack a schiit magni to it? i've asked before if it is possible to add the magni to the mixamp … but I first want to know if that can be done with the 2013 version of the mixamp before I spend the $100 on a magni. 

Please provide links or cable names so I can look into it more. Again I have the 2013 astro mixamp with akg q701 headphones connected to a playstation 3.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theman1285 said:


> Astro took out the RCA inputs in their 2013 mixamp. How could I connect/stack a schiit magni to it? i've asked before if it is possible to add the magni to the mixamp … but I first want to know if that can be done with the 2013 version of the mixamp before I spend the $100 on a magni.
> 
> Please provide links or cable names so I can look into it more. Again I have the 2013 astro mixamp with akg q701 headphones connected to a playstation 3.


 
   
  You hook up external maps by taking the signal out from the headphone jack.  Look at the diagram below...
   
  RCA inputs wouldn't have helped, because you can't get surround from the RCA inputs.


----------



## widdyjudas

Never tried the AD series before, so I want to test it. I had an AT m50 before and hated it. The cup is not big enough, the leather is sweaty and clamp is too much. Many said its over the ear design, but its on ear for me. So, the cup pressed against my ear and add the clamp.
  Sound is ok, good low and hi, but the soundstage is too small. Everything is cramped on the middle.
  Too bad that the AD series are using leather too. I want to test the new one, but its still unavailable here. Don't now if envy will try the new updated AD, compared to the old one.
  HE400 is good enough for me, although I want more soundstage. The weight and long cable is minus point for it. I wish Hifiman has coiled cable.


----------



## roguegeek

widdyjudas said:


> Never tried the AD series before, so I want to test it. I had an AT m50 before and hated it. The cup is not big enough, the leather is sweaty and clamp is too much. Many said its over the ear design, but its on ear for me. So, the cup pressed against my ear and add the clamp.
> Sound is ok, good low and hi, but the soundstage is too small. Everything is cramped on the middle.
> Too bad that the AD series are using leather too. I want to test the new one, but its still unavailable here. Don't now if envy will try the new updated AD, compared to the old one.
> HE400 is good enough for me, although I want more soundstage. The weight and long cable is minus point for it. I wish Hifiman has coiled cable.




The AD700 pads are velvet, not pleather/leather.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote:


evshrug said:


> Most/many other receivers have their own surround processing, but they don't usually bother branding the tech or build-in a lot of adjustability. Before I got my headphone amps, I preferred to send the audio out from the Recon3D to the stereo input of my Yamaha receiver, set to "straight" mode. What headphone do you have now?


 
  Right, thanks for reminding me. I have the Annies. It should be in my profile and sig. I'm gonna get a DH receiver then.


----------



## widdyjudas

Is annies really that good? Compared to HE-400? Can it be driven properly with the E-17?
  But it use leather pad, will it compromise comfort much?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Is annies really that good? Compared to HE-400? Can it be driven properly with the E-17?
> But it use leather pad, will it compromise comfort much?


 
   
  Leather?  Both have velour (optional on HE400) earpads...
   
  They sound different, the anniversaries are darker and the HE400 are brighter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Annie is a very competent all rounder with very balanced, warm sound, non tiring treble, large soundstage, and fantastic positioning for games. The bass doesnt hit like the HE400, but it has much better mids and treble to me. The bass is still good, and accurate.

Its a bit overpriced at $500, but if you can find them for around $400, I think its worth it. You can do that, or find a Q701 for around $250 and try and get Annie pads for $70, though I dunno how long it will take AKG to start sending them out. That will give you the Annie sound for like $100 cheaper, but without the comfy headband and limited quantity aesthetics/prestige.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Frank from AKG emailed me and said about 2-3 weeks. 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Annie is a very competent all rounder with very balanced, warm sound, non tiring treble, large soundstage, and fantastic positioning for games. The bass doesnt hit like the HE400, but it has much better mids and treble to me. The bass is still good, and accurate.
> 
> Its a bit overpriced at $500, but if you can find them for around $400, I think its worth it. You can do that, or find a Q701 for around $250 and try and get Annie pads for $70, though I dunno how long it will take AKG to start sending them out. That will give you the Annie sound for like $100 cheaper, but without the comfy headband and limited quantity aesthetics/prestige.


----------



## chooka

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> Just my two cents on ad900. I remember positioning to be good as well as sound stage.
> 
> But
> 
> ...


 
  I bought the* AD700's *I read more stuff about the AD900 and they weren't as comfortable and I was worried about the drivers and being shocked n stuff even though I didn't know what that means, may take a pic when I get them and post it although you professional sound types have seen it all before....I hope they fuken work good! lol


----------



## OnePunchMan

^_^ Thank you too Evershurg, you've been a great help also. So um, if i dont amp the headphones......I mean I'm almost positive I can t just plug them into my Xbox controller so uh, how would I use them to get the most out of them I guess?  Sorry if that's a dumb question, but this all literally goes right over my head; some of what you guys have been talking about reminded me of the time when my friend tried to teach me Russian.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uh, no. The Xbox controller's output is for microphone/chat. 

We were under the assumption you were gonna use something like the Mixamp, which would connect directly from the Xbox.

You need some form of an amp, as you need volume control coming out of the Xbox. Or you're just confusing me.

Basically, anything with a standard heafphone jack has amplification, which is why there is volume control. Phones, mp3 players, etc, all have internal amps. When we say amps here, we mean audiophile amps like those I posted on the first page. The AD700 doesn't need anything past whatever internal amp is on devices like ipods, and cellphones. They're that sensitive.

However, game systems don't have headphone jacks, so you need a way to plug in your headphones to them. Our faves are tbings like the Mixamp which has virtual surround. I'm not gonna explain all this again though.

If you want the AD700, you don't need anything past something like a Mixamp. As far as portable use, you dont need any amp. Just plug them straight into your devices.

At that point you might have a crappy device with a horrible dac, like noisy laptops, so you might need something like the Fiio E7 for portable use which is an external usb dac and amp, and allows you to bypass the noisy laptop soundcards and headphone jacks. This has n9thing to do with gaming use, so if you wanna learn more you can ask or read up the millions of threads on head-fi about it.


----------



## theman1285

What would be a good upgrade from a AKG Q701. I am looking to get better directional cues while playing online with my playstation 3 and eventually playstation 4 when it comes out. I dont know if the headphone exists but is there a better headphone for gaming with even better directional cues?

Also where can you buy the Annie pads from? Wouldn't mind trying them on the Q701's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'll just be wasting your money at this point. No headphone is gonna make positional cues noticeably more accurate. At this point, best thing is jumping to a new virtual surround tech device like the Beyer Headzone. You can only do so much with headphones.


----------



## unclerico

Hi, I'm new here and new to advanced audio in general. I'm a pretty big xbox360 Call of Duty player and I'm ready to take the next step. I've been using turtle beach x11's, I think they're called for many years. After doing tons of research, the same names keep coming up, (Astro A40's, Sennheiser PC360&598, steelseries Siberia V2, etc, so I've decided to go for the ole' Ad700, mixamp, modmic combo.
  My question is...Which mixamp to go with? Either Astro mixamp 2013, which I've read thousands of horror stories about or the previous version(2011 i think). Has anyone heard if Astro actually fixed their mixamp. I know about the updated firmware which is supposed to fix sound dropping and a new usb-mini to push the extra power, but i still read tons of unhappy customers on their forums. If anyone has any experience or suggestions I would greatly appreciate your feedback/help!!
   
  Thanks very much for your time


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





theman1285 said:


> What would be a good upgrade from a AKG Q701. I am looking to get better directional cues while playing online with my playstation 3 and eventually playstation 4 when it comes out. I dont know if the headphone exists but is there a better headphone for gaming with even better directional cues?
> 
> Also where can you buy the Annie pads from? Wouldn't mind trying them on the Q701's


 
   
  You could downgrade to the AD700, which has a bit better positioning.  Just be aware of the sound signature that headphone comes with.
  The HD598 might be a hair better then Q701, but not sure.  Again, the signature...
   
  The Q701 sound is a lot more fun than either of those two though, and it still has one of the best soundstages out there.  You probably have to jump up to the HD800 to get an improvement (..._maybe _the T1).
   
  Also....stax...
   
  The anniversary pads won't be available for another 2 weeks or so, FWIR in the thread below:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/1770


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He's looking at a very incremental improvement by getting an AD700 or HD598 over the Q701. Certainly not gonna get one more kill because he wore those instead of the Q701. The only thing that makes them even slightly better is because they sap out all the fun to let you purely focus on detail. Positional cues are basically a wash to me. People are putting too much stock on the difference between anything that's an 8 compared to a 9.5. There is no miraculous or even significant improvement, IMHO. There is different sound signatures that all equal awesome in competitive performance. If the Q701 ain't doing it for him in Dolby Headphone, it's either:

a.) The game. All games are not the same in terms of positional cues. Case in point: Modern Warfare 2 has the best positional cues out of all the Call of Duty games. Compare that game to Modern Warfare 3/BLOPS 2 and you'll quickly realize just how much better it is. 

b.) He's incompatible with DH, and should look at some other DSP like whatever Headzone is using, Silent Cinema, CMSS, Recond3D, etc.


----------



## OnePunchMan

Thanks a ton MLE, you answered my question and then some. I really appreciate it man. Sorry for the confusion btw


----------



## OnePunchMan

Thanks a ton MLE, you answered my question and then some. I really appreciate it man. Sorry for the confusion btw


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks for the reply and chicolom too. Are annies amp picky? Can E17 drive it?


----------



## Evshrug

onepunchman said:


> ^_^ Thank you too Evershurg, you've been a great help also. So um, if i dont amp the headphones......I mean I'm almost positive I can t just plug them into my Xbox controller so uh, how would I use them to get the most out of them I guess?  Sorry if that's a dumb question, but this all literally goes right over my head; some of what you guys have been talking about reminded me of the time when my friend tried to teach me Russian.



When I first started gaming with the AD700, I was using the component AV cables that came with my Xbox. Then, I just used a super-cheap RCA to 3.5mm adapter (the red/white plugs you see on all TVs and most audio equipment, and a headphone jack like you see on an iPod that matches the headphone plug), plus a cheap FiiO E5 amp because the audio straight from an Xbox's RCA jacks is just too loud. That worked just fine for years, though you only get stereo sound that way.

 I read Mad's thread here for the headphone reviews at some point, but I found it again last year which kindled an interest in trying virtual surround sound. If you want to try virtual surround, read the "topic article" at the link in my signature: I've tried to make the thread easy to read by bookmarking major topics with a table of contents on the first post. I bought a Recon3D USB instead of an Astro Mixamp because it cost half as much and would work as an external soundcard for my Mac as well as Xbox surround. For surround, I connect the included optical wire to the optical port on my Xbox; if you have a model with HDMI but before the Slim, like I do, you can have the HDMI go to your screen and get a $3 "audio dongle" that plugs in and gives you RCA connections and an optical out, but a Slim has the optical output port built right into it.

For chat, I just set the voice to play through "speakers" in the Xbox Guide preferences (just hit the guide button and slide over to the Settings tab), so all audio including chat plays in my headphones, then you just plug a mic into your controller. Any 2.5mm wired cellphone headset will work if you can position the mic towards your mouth, though a cheap lapel mic or ModMic (not so cheap) will probably be more suitable solutions. Mad's lapel mic is from Deal Extreme (mentioned in his guide), I just bought mine on Amazon, much faster shipping and still very cheap but good


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> Never tried the AD series before, so I want to test it. I had an AT m50 before and hated it. The cup is not big enough, the leather is sweaty and clamp is too much. Many said its over the ear design, but its on ear for me. So, the cup pressed against my ear and add the clamp.
> Sound is ok, good low and hi, but the soundstage is too small. Everything is cramped on the middle.
> Too bad that the AD series are using leather too. I want to test the new one, but its still unavailable here. Don't now if envy will try the new updated AD, compared to the old one.
> HE400 is good enough for me, although I want more soundstage. The weight and long cable is minus point for it. I wish Hifiman has coiled cable.



The clamp of the AD700 is very light. They probably weigh half as much as the HE's, too. The earpads are like cones... They touch your head around your ears, but the contact surface is so "wide" that it will probably rest on your ear too. Have you ever forgotten you were wearing a hat? Sometimes you'll feel like that while playing a game.

The A series headphones are closed headphones with pleather/leather earpads, the AD line are open headphones with soft velour fabric earpads. The headband "wings" are soft and squishy like a nylon pillow or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, due to length of period away, the last guy backed out of buying the HE400 so I had to refund him. They are back up for sale. $300. Check the sig link if interested. Though sale is pending, and have 4 other people waiting, lol.

BTW, just to update on the K702 Annie. <3 <3 <3 <3

I updated the Q701 entry with a few paragraphs about the change done with the Annie pads, etc.


----------



## Evshrug

I mailed it with insurance and better packaging, so in one way or another Calpis is getting it. Still in the original retail box of course, headphone is clean, and in the same very good condition it arrived in, with the cables and 1/4" adapter and spare velours.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I mailed it with insurance and better packaging, so in one way or another Calpis is getting it.


 
   
  What was wrong with my packaging?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  BTW, Calpis should remember that the parts express headphones are hidden inside the box somewhere and that they go back to MLE.  I know he has been dying to get his hands on them.


----------



## imackler

Hey Mad Lust Envy! I hope this is a good place to ask: Why are you selling the HE-400 and keeping the K702 Anniversary? I've got a line on the K702 for $375 and I'm trying to decide between the two. I also have a HD650 and a HD600, but am willing to let either go (but not both) if I prefer either the K702 or HE-400. Knowing why you let the HE-400 go and keep the Annie may help me decide.


----------



## majnu

MLE - I ordered the new Audio Technica AD-900x. The reviews for these cans are very scarce at the moment since they aren't officially available in the States or Europe. I did manage to find a review on Amazon which said that these cans need amplification. 
   
  http://www.amazon.com/review/R203F2SJQ7D6U3
   
  What gain setting would you recommend I use on an Asus STX to amplify these?
   

   
  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer the warmer, more balanced sound on the K702 Annie over the HE400. They're both amazing, but I'm over the emphasized treble headphones, which the HE400 falls under. The Annie has a non-fatiguing and airier sound presentation, and is also much, much more comfortable for extended use. Also, its more suited for gaming.

The HE400 is mainly bass and treble centric, and nowadays I prefer bass and mid centric with smooth treble.

For you, I think you'll find the K702 Annie to be somewhat like the HD650 with more airiness, and clarity, but still on the warm, pleasant side, and not as laid back.


----------



## Heretic817

TYPE Open-air Dynamic DRIVER DIAMETER 53 mm FREQUENCY RESPONSE 5 – 35,000 Hz MAXIMUM INPUT POWER 1,000 mW SENSITIVITY 100 dB/mW IMPEDANCE 38 ohms WEIGHT 265 g CABLE 3.0 m (9.8') CONNECTOR 3.5 mm(1/8") mini stereo, gold-plated ACCESSORY INCLUDED Detachable 1/4" (6.3 mm) adapter

   
   

 Impedance (Ohms): 38 Effectivity (dB/mW): 100
 [size=medium] *[size=xx-small]Signal [/size]*[/size]

 Level (mV): 1100
 [size=medium] [size=xx-small]*>> R E S U L T S*[/size][/size]

 SPL (dB): 115.03 Power (mW): 31.84 Current (mA): 28.95
   
  Well, there's the numbers to get you to 115 dB SPL


----------



## Heretic817

^^^^^^^^^^ oops. meant to quote you.
  Quote: 





majnu said:


> MLE - I ordered the new Audio Technica AD-900x. The reviews for these cans are very scarce at the moment since they aren't officially available in the States or Europe. I did manage to find a review on Amazon which said that these cans need amplification.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R203F2SJQ7D6U3
> 
> ...


----------



## cheuh

MLE, how would you compare the Q701 to the HE-400 and which one do you prefer?
   
  I noticed that you loaned out the HE-400 to Chicolom and Evshrug (who both own the Q701). Do you know if they both still preferred their Q701 over the HE-400 for music and gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer the HE400 over the Q701. The Q701 doesnt have enough bass for me. I do prefer its mids and highs though. The Q701 with the Annie pads however, are more favorable to me though.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





majnu said:


> MLE - I ordered the new Audio Technica AD-900x. The reviews for these cans are very scarce at the moment since they aren't officially available in the States or Europe. I did manage to find a review on Amazon which said that these cans need amplification.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R203F2SJQ7D6U3
> 
> ...


 
   
 [size=11.0pt] Previous Audio Technicas have been very easy to drive, and the AD900X are still only 38 ohms (previous were 32 ohm I think), so I highly doubt they're require that much amplifcation.[/size]
 [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
 [size=11.0pt] I would probably use 0 dB gain, 12 dB if your feeling brave.[/size]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> I noticed that you loaned out the HE-400 to Chicolom and Evshrug (who both own the Q701). Do you know if they both still preferred their Q701 over the HE-400 for music and gaming?


 
   
  Personally I preferred Q701's treble, mids, and soundstage over the HE400.  Not having as much bass as the HE400 is not a dealbreaker for me.
   
  The HE400 are nice though - very clear with a good soundstage and some "V" signature if your into that.  I think the HE400s is alot more reasonable and balanced than DT990.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, due to length of period away, the last guy backed out of buying the HE400 so I had to refund him. They are back up for sale. $300. Check the sig link if interested. Though sale is pending, and have 4 other people waiting, lol.


 
   
  I like the _"New professional type picture added (taken by friend)."_


----------



## imackler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the warmer, more balanced sound on the K702 Annie over the HE400. They're both amazing, but I'm over the emphasized treble headphones, which the HE400 falls under. The Annie has a non-fatiguing and airier sound presentation, and is also much, much more comfortable for extended use. Also, its more suited for gaming.
> 
> The HE400 is mainly bass and treble centric, and nowadays I prefer bass and mid centric with smooth treble.
> 
> For you, I think you'll find the K702 Annie to be somewhat like the HD650 with more airiness, and clarity, but still on the warm, pleasant side, and not as laid back.


 
   
  This helps a ton! I'm def not a fan overemphasized treble. And I'm big on comfort, too, so that sounds great. I love the idea of more clarity and airiness as the HD650. Pretty much...I think you should work for AKG. (Now, can I have you call my wife and explain why this all to her?!


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the HE400 over the Q701. The Q701 doesnt have enough bass for me. I do prefer its mids and highs though. The Q701 with the Annie pads however, are more favorable to me though.


 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Personally I preferred Q701's treble, mids, and soundstage over the HE400.  Not having as much bass as the HE400 is not a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> The HE400 are nice though - very clear with a good soundstage and some "V" signature if your into that.  I think the HE400s is alot more reasonable and balanced than DT990.


 
   
  Thank you for the responses.
   
  I'm assuming the soundstage will be wider/bigger on the Q701? Does this mean the Q701 will sound more 'open' or more 'spacious' than the Hifiman? How would the imaging/positioning and instrument separation compare to the HE-400?
   
  I will be using an O2 amp with these headphones and I tend to listen to music at very loud volumes. Does the Q701 ever become harsh or sibilant in the treble?


----------



## chicolom

I don't think the anniversary is all that airy. Maybe compared to the HD6x0. 

It's dark and smooth compared to the HE400 though, not exactly words I'd use to describe "airy."


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> What was wrong with my packaging?
> 
> BTW, Calpis should remember that the parts express headphones are hidden inside the box somewhere and that they go back to MLE.  I know he has been dying to get his hands on them.



Well B&H thought it was good enough. Happens that I shot out the door and forgot the box you sent it in, though I was going to at least put a pair of bags over the retail box and add some extra padding before sending anyway. It's about $400 worth of responsibility, don't want to mess that up, y'know?



cheuh said:


> MLE, how would you compare the Q701 to the HE-400 and which one do you prefer?
> 
> I noticed that you loaned out the HE-400 to Chicolom and Evshrug (who both own the Q701). Do you know if they both still preferred their Q701 over the HE-400 for music and gaming?




Oh, I liked the HE-400 alright, especially some of the time. They're a little more "fun" than "faithful" (two hard to define things anyway, but that was the sense) compared to the Q701, I could see why one would have a different preference than me, but in the end I still prefer my Q's. Don't have the extra money to buy a more expensive headphone right now anyway... I want a new graphics card or CPU upgrade next.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I don't think the anniversary is all that airy. Maybe compared to the HD6x0.
> 
> It's dark and smooth compared to the HE400 though, not exactly words I'd use to describe "airy."




For gaming with DH? Oh, it's airy. Maybe not Q701 airy, but still, 'I will pinpoint everything around me' airy.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





majnu said:


> MLE - I ordered the new Audio Technica AD-900x. The reviews for these cans are very scarce at the moment since they aren't officially available in the States or Europe. I did manage to find a review on Amazon which said that these cans need amplification.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/R203F2SJQ7D6U3


 
   
  Check this out.


----------



## majnu

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> TYPE Open-air Dynamic DRIVER DIAMETER 53 mm FREQUENCY RESPONSE 5 – 35,000 Hz MAXIMUM INPUT POWER 1,000 mW SENSITIVITY 100 dB/mW IMPEDANCE 38 ohms WEIGHT 265 g CABLE 3.0 m (9.8') CONNECTOR 3.5 mm(1/8") mini stereo, gold-plated ACCESSORY INCLUDED Detachable 1/4" (6.3 mm) adapter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry, what does that mean in laymans terms?


----------



## majnu

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> [size=11.0pt] Previous Audio Technicas have been very easy to drive, and the AD900X are still only 38 ohms (previous were 32 ohm I think), so I highly doubt they're require that much amplifcation.[/size]
> [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
> [size=11.0pt] I would probably use 0 dB gain, 12 dB if your feeling brave.[/size]


 
   
  I don't want to blow them up lol, I'd just like to know is it safe to use +12db without damaging the cans?
  Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Check this out.


 
  Yeh I saw that yesterday. Thanks for the heads up though.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Thank you for the responses.
> 
> I'm assuming the sound-stage will be wider/bigger on the Q701? Does this mean the Q701 will sound more 'open' or more 'spacious' than the Hifiman? How would the imaging/positioning and instrument separation compare to the HE-400?
> 
> I will be using an O2 amp with these headphones and I tend to listen to music at very loud volumes. Does the Q701 ever become harsh or sibilant in the treble?


 
  I use the Q701's with the O2 amp and I can say that the O2 can get them quite loud although I can max it out without hitting earsplitting levels. 
   
  ** Note on this though that my sound card is set to 50% output to avoid clipping from the card which I have seen at higher output levels**
   
  I have never found the treble to be harsh. I think it does have a very nice balanced sound. Bass is nice even on rap/hip hop and electronic music though as others have said I sometimes wish it could dig a bit deeper in the bass department. Also, I personally feel that the revered sound-stage of the Q701 is somewhat overstated. It is a semi-open can and having heard some other truly open ones I do wish it had a bit more air to it. Well, then the bass takes a hit and it's a trade off. You can't have everything I guess.


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> [size=11.0pt] Previous Audio Technicas have been very easy to drive, and the AD900X are still only 38 ohms (previous were 32 ohm I think), so I highly doubt they're require that much amplifcation.[/size]
> [size=11.0pt]  [/size]
> [size=11.0pt] I would probably use 0 dB gain, 12 dB if your feeling brave.[/size]


 
  Yes. I would say that the numbers I posted would suggest those would not really need an amp. I even used the 115 dB/SPL numbers which would be more demanding than for typical use.


----------



## kayan

Hey everyone, first time poster here. Thanks MadLust for the good read and all of the info, I'm still trying to digest it all...
   
  I have some questions about suggested cans, as there's so much conflicting info floating around out there on the interwebz. I'm searching for a new set of cans, headset or headphones are fine. I'm primarily a PC Gamer that is really into RPGs, hack 'n slashers, action/adventure, and some shooters + mmo; that said, I will be listening to music and watching movies with these. My price limit is around 300 +/-50 bucks USD (prefer ordering from Amazon or Newegg though).
   
  My current headset is a Plantronics Gamecom 777, and the earpads are wearing out, I'm getting some feedback from the mic and line, plus other myriad of issues, but mostly they just aren't comfortable anymore.
   
  I'm wanting something that is #1 - extremely comfortable; #2 - amazing sounding; #3 - light enough to be portable, and #4 - durable. I've had these Plantronics for nearing on 4 years, and they've been great up until recently, but after using an Astro A40 + mixamp on my Xbox/PS3 I see even more what I'm missing in the games and movies I watch on them, with those A40s. If someone could shoot me in the right direction I'd be very grateful.
   
  What are the benefits (soundwise) between a closed and open back headphone? Why should I choose one over the other? I've always had closed, and honestly they are great for gaming and movie watching when the roomie is around, but I have only ever had these style.
   
  I'm currently looking at the V-MODA Crossfade M-100, Senn 598, Senn Momentum, and Senn PC 350SE. Has anyone tried all of these, is there one that's better than another? What's the BEST bang for buck in relation to what my 4 needs are listed above?
   
  Also, once I pick some cans, I assume that I'll also need some type of Amp for my desktop. What should I get?
   
  I'm a total n00b when it comes to sound so please go easy on me


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> I use the Q701's with the O2 amp and I can say that the O2 can get them quite loud although I can max it out without hitting earsplitting levels.
> 
> ** Note on this though that my sound card is set to 50% output to avoid clipping from the card which I have seen at higher output levels**
> 
> I have never found the treble to be harsh. I think it does have a very nice balanced sound. Bass is nice even on rap/hip hop and electronic music though as others have said I sometimes wish it could dig a bit deeper in the bass department. Also, I personally feel that the revered sound-stage of the Q701 is somewhat overstated. It is a semi-open can and having heard some other truly open ones I do wish it had a bit more air to it. Well, then the bass takes a hit and it's a trade off. You can't have everything I guess.


 
   
  Awesome thanks for that info. I just placed an order for a White Q701. Hopefully it will impress me... if I feel DAT sound-stage isn't good enough, I will be returning them lol.


----------



## Grymok

Guess what....!! 
   
  Finally got my DT 990 Premium 250 ohm
  The build quality is nice, the package premium cage is sweet to.
  Haven't got much time to listen to them, but first impression ain't that overwhelming as i had hoped for.
  There's somewhat the same amount of base as my Panasonic HTF600.
  Running them from a crappy sound card pt, maybe that's the reason, but probably gonna pick up a Creative Titanium HD soon.
  And doesn't make much of a sound difference if i run it with HDMI from my graphics card to my receiver and to my phones.
  Hope the Titanium HD, will change this stage BIG time. And then maybe an dedicated amp.
   
  I just hope i get some better sound of those :S.


----------



## Vader2k

So, I ordered a Marantz SR6005 last night.  I'm extremely eager to try the Annies out with Dolby Headphone once it arrives.  Unfortunately it'll be a while as I also recently bought a new TV, stand and AV cabinet.  Before I begin the long task of rearranging and hooking everything up, I want to put my current TV and receiver up on craigslist while they're still connected so people can demo them.  They say patience is a virtue...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Anyway, I did tons of comparison research between all the Marantz AVRs that use DH and since this thread has been such a wonderful resource, I thought I'd give something back and share my findings as sort of a quick-ref guide.  Look for that... sometime in the near future.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kayan said:


> Hey everyone, first time poster here. Thanks MadLust for the good read and all of the info, I'm still trying to digest it all...
> 
> I have some questions about suggested cans, as there's so much conflicting info floating around out there on the interwebz. I'm searching for a new set of cans, headset or headphones are fine. I'm primarily a PC Gamer that is really into RPGs, hack 'n slashers, action/adventure, and some shooters + mmo; that said, I will be listening to music and watching movies with these. My price limit is around 300 +/-50 bucks USD (prefer ordering from Amazon or Newegg though).
> 
> ...


----------



## unclerico

Can someone please give the definition of "fun" as used in describing headphones and some examples. I'm very green in the terminologies.
  Thanks very much in advance


----------



## Heretic817

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Awesome thanks for that info. I just placed an order for a White Q701. Hopefully it will impress me... if I feel DAT sound-stage isn't good enough, I will be returning them lol.


 
  FYI - DO USE AN AMP. I went without one for about a year and it was "fine" in most cases. It was not until I built my O2 that I realized that I was in fact missing out on the full potential of the headphone. The bass in particular was a very big improvement. Before it was a bit light and uncontrolled. I thought that this was due to claims that the Q701 lacked in the bass department when it is now clear that it was power starved. Same goes with the sound card output. I had to have it set to 100% to get acceptable volume and now I know how much it was struggling under those conditions.
   
  The Q701 is not the hardest headphone to drive "loud enough" but it's demands are beyond what an un-amped sound card or mp3 player can drive properly. 
   
  If you are not going to get an amp then get a different headphone.


----------



## Impulse

grymok said:


> Guess what....!!
> 
> Finally got my DT 990 Premium 250 ohm
> The build quality is nice, the package premium cage is sweet to.
> ...




Congrats! Package premium cage? Don't they just come inside a foam/nylon bag/case packed inside a box? My DT 880 weren't even sealed, tho the bag is nice and the "handmade in Germany" slogan slapped around the box does give a warm and fuzzy feeling. 

What sound card are you using right now? DH/CMSS-3D will definitely help with sound stage but the Ti HD doesn't have a discrete amp like ASUS cards, might be borderline with a 250 ohm load, dunno. It's still a great card if you got it for close to $100 tho, can always add an amp later.




unclerico said:


> Can someone please give the definition of "fun" as used in describing headphones and some examples. I'm very green in the terminologies.
> Thanks very much in advance




Generally around Head Fi it usually refers to a slight bass and possibly treble boost, more of a V signature, but it's a very vague and subjective term to be honest... It'll mean different things to different people, ultimately it usually refers to a more colored sound rather than a more neutral or analytical one, but a lot of people find the latter to be "fun" for them so YMMV.

In the context of this thread and MLE's rankings in particular it usually just means a warmer signature with more bass presence and impact, something that can immerse you into the game as explosions and that sorta thing carry more weight but can also detract from the sound stage and sound positioning if it's overdone (not so good for competitive play).


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





heretic817 said:


> FYI - DO USE AN AMP. I went without one for about a year and it was "fine" in most cases. It was not until I built my O2 that I realized that I was in fact missing out on the full potential of the headphone. The bass in particular was a very big improvement. Before it was a bit light and uncontrolled. I thought that this was due to claims that the Q701 lacked in the bass department when it is now clear that it was power starved. Same goes with the sound card output. I had to have it set to 100% to get acceptable volume and now I know how much it was struggling under those conditions.
> 
> The Q701 is not the hardest headphone to drive "loud enough" but it's demands are beyond what an un-amped sound card or mp3 player can drive properly.
> 
> If you are not going to get an amp then get a different headphone.


 
   
  I have an O2... hopefully it will drive the Q701s well. I heard the Matrix M-Stage is a good pairing for these headphones? What kind of performance would I get if I 'upgraded' to the M-stage?


----------



## Impulse

kayan said:


> What are the benefits (soundwise) between a closed and open back headphone? Why should I choose one over the other? I've always had closed, and honestly they are great for gaming and movie watching when the roomie is around, but I have only ever had these style.




Chico assessed most of your post but I'll expand on this a little bit anyway, even tho it's been asked many times...

When you're looking at mid-to-high end $300+ headphones, the main advantage of going closed is sound isolation from your environment, period. Some of the better closed headphones at this level aren't even very isolating for obvious reasons... The more sealed the cups are the more resonant bass gets and sound stage suffers, which is particularly bad for competitive gaming.

Open headphones generally present a bigger sound stage and singling out individual sounds is easier, but you'll hear everything and everyone around you plus sound will leak out of them so they'll bother others sitting nearby.

There's closed headphones at different price ranges that don't do too terribly at presenting a larger sound stage (DT 770, Mad Dogs, Creative Aurvana Live / CAL, JVC RX900, etc.) but open headphones in the same price range can still outclass them in that regard, none of those are very portable either except possibly the CAL but I hear they aren't very durable.

Small closed cups and smaller drivers just aren't gonna be great for gaming, can't cheat physics. There's a difference between portable and transportable too IMO, something like Beyers DT series are relatively compact compared to bigger full size headphones and they're built tough as heck.


----------



## Heretic817

cheuh said:


> I have an O2... hopefully it will drive the Q701s well. I heard the Matrix M-Stage is a good pairing for these headphones? What kind of performance would I get if I 'upgraded' to the M-stage?




The O2 has plenty of power. I dont see a point in getting a different one unless you want to get an amp "you can hear" to "change" the sound. ;p


----------



## Heretic817

cheuh said:


> I have an O2... hopefully it will drive the Q701s well. I heard the Matrix M-Stage is a good pairing for these headphones? What kind of performance would I get if I 'upgraded' to the M-stage?




The O2 has plenty of power. I dont see a point in getting a different one unless you want to get an amp "you can hear" to "change" the sound. ;p


----------



## Naingolann

I found a very old Sansui AU517 in my closet and was wondering if I could still get something from it. I though about using it with my PC and PS3 and replace the E9...Would this be a good idea? I wonder if my DT990 would sound good off of it?
   
  Here's some pictures:
   

   

   
  You can also see the manual right here: http://911manuals.com/preview/Sansui/Sansui-AU517-AU717-int-sm.png
   
  Also, would it be possible to use with my DSS (3.5 to RCA) and DT990?


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> [size=11pt]Previous Audio Technicas have been very easy to drive, and the AD900X are still only 38 ohms (previous were 32 ohm I think), so I highly doubt they're require that much amplifcation.[/size]
> 
> [size=11pt]I would probably use 0 dB gain, 12 dB if your feeling brave.[/size]



On a totally OT tangent, I like your font here. Times New Roman, or Cambria? I get sick of Arial all the time, sometimes.





vader2k said:


> So, I ordered a Marantz SR6005 last night.  I'm extremely eager to try the Annies out with Dolby Headphone once it arrives.  Unfortunately it'll be a while as I also recently bought a new TV, stand and AV cabinet.  Before I begin the long task of rearranging and hooking everything up, I want to put my current TV and receiver up on craigslist while they're still connected so people can demo them.  They say patience is a virtue...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I totally understand about enjoying the thread, and wanting to give back. I recommend putting your quick-reference in your posting signature, so you can easily refer people to it, like I did with my thread. I want to get ack to adding to mine, though I'm kinda bummed because I'd hoped to write about external DACs from personal experience, but I never was able to successfully troubleshoot the ODAC connection before sending it away.


Naingolann,
I hooked up my Recon3D's audio out to my receiver's input with good results, if your receiver has RCA then I don't see how you couldn't have success. And also a higher electric bill


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Congrats! Package premium cage? Don't they just come inside a foam/nylon bag/case packed inside a box? My DT 880 weren't even sealed, tho the bag is nice and the "handmade in Germany" slogan slapped around the box does give a warm and fuzzy feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeap can get it for about 100$, actually a little less , it's 2 years old.
  It's the standard sound card which comes with my Rampage II Extreme, nothing expensive. It's an x-fi, and got the driver etc installed. But it really just don't get the "WAUW" feeling .
  Have looked into getting an O2 amp or Zigis tube amp. The O2 costs 170$ here in europe, and can get the Zigis tube amp for 220$.
  So will maybe end up with the titanium HD and the tube amp 
  Then i hope it will make some NICE sounds in bf3, and my music


----------



## unclerico

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Generally around Head Fi it usually refers to a slight bass and possibly treble boost, more of a V signature, but it's a very vague and subjective term to be honest... It'll mean different things to different people, ultimately it usually refers to a more colored sound rather than a more neutral or analytical one, but a lot of people find the latter to be "fun" for them so YMMV.
> 
> In the context of this thread and MLE's rankings in particular it usually just means a warmer signature with more bass presence and impact, something that can immerse you into the game as explosions and that sorta thing carry more weight but can also detract from the sound stage and sound positioning if it's overdone (not so good for competitive play).


 
  Thanks for your response on what the term "fun" means. I'm trying to find a nice balance of great sounding for music and great for fps gaming. I just bought the Astro A40's/mixamp, Beyerdynamic dt990 pro, and Audio technica ad700's. Hopefully, after putting these sets through the ringer over the weekend, I'll develop a better understanding of headphone terminology and overall sound.


----------



## AxelCloris

*Edit* Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.


----------



## Naingolann

evshrug said:


> Naingolann,
> I hooked up my Recon3D's audio out to my receiver's input with good results, if your receiver has RCA then I don't see how you couldn't have success. And also a higher electric bill




Ahah, I hadn't thought about the electric bill. Well, if it works, then I'll deal with it! 

It actually has a lot of RCA, although I have no idea if those are "true" line in...guess I'll just have to get a 3.5 to rca cable and try myself.


----------



## woofed

Whats up peeps. Need some help here.
   
  I am a 100% PC gamer.
   
  Im looking for accuracy and detail whoreing. I have no one around me and noise from open cans wouldnt matter.
   
  I currently have a ROG Phobeus sound card (600ohm) and AD700.
   
  I love my ad700's but the are starting to seem dullish.
   
  Im looking at the AD900's but would like opinions. I could care less about bass.
  Dont care about how they fit either.
   
  Im looking for maximum detail whoreing and accuracy.
   
   
  Would like to keep price under 350$
   
  Thanks!! 
   
  Oh, i also mostly play FPS's and MMO's


----------



## modulor

^ Sounds like the AKG K701/K702/Q701 line is what you're looking for.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





woofed said:


> Whats up peeps. Need some help here.
> 
> I am a 100% PC gamer.
> 
> ...


 
   
  AD900s won't increase "detail whoring" and accuracy over AD700s.  In fact, they may even decrease it.
   
  The AD700s are pretty much _it_ when it comes that, especially given their price.
   
  You can get more fun and engaging sounding heapdhones (more bass and body to the sound) by spending more, but you can't really increase the detail and accuracy over the AD700 by spending more.
   
   
  Does that soundcard come with surround DSP's like Dolby Headphone?


----------



## woofed

modulor said:


> ^ Sounds like the AKG K701/K702/Q701 line is what you're looking for.


 

  Tried q701, liked ad700 better... however the q701 wasnt burnt in
  Quote:


chicolom said:


> AD900s won't increase "detail whoring" and accuracy over AD700s.  In fact, they may even decrease it.
> 
> The AD700s are pretty much _it_ when it comes that, especially given their price.
> 
> ...


 
  Ya, it has Dolby home theater v4


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I totally understand about enjoying the thread, and wanting to give back. I recommend putting your quick-reference in your posting signature, so you can easily refer people to it, like I did with my thread. I want to get ack to adding to mine, though I'm kinda bummed because I'd hoped to write about external DACs from personal experience, but I never was able to successfully troubleshoot the ODAC connection before sending it away.


 
   
  A thread is probably a better idea.  I was just gonna make a post here, but I suppose it could get buried quickly that way, huh?  Thanks for the tip!


----------



## Heretic817

If strict pc gamer it would seem you could EQ with AD700 and dail in the detail whoring. Not sure you could do much better. Also ask on the Nameless pc guide you may have better luck over there.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> A tube amp that favors high impedance headphones would be the best bet for the 990s.


 
  On that note I really enjoy my 12ua7 RCA Clear Top [in my Indeed G3] for my dt 990s
   
  On that note I got teh Mad Dogs in today... they nice. I use em with my Rca CLear top, since they are a little to rich for me. The Tube gives a little more sound stage to the cans [which they need] and a little better control on bass and seperation.
   
  Still I'm happy with the mad Dogs 
   
  in addition I do a alot of pc gaming but... does an mmo really need direct sound... if it's 1st person than yea but most of em are 3rd right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

More for immersion and not an actual need for positional cues, I'm sure.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, you were looking at Zigis' amp too? He just sent me the new wooden panels for my amp, I should do a formal review. Last I heard, he had everything he needed to build and sell a few amps. Mine has been absolutely wonderful, after I got it set up right.




vader2k said:


> A thread is probably a better idea.  I was just gonna make a post here, but I suppose it could get buried quickly that way, huh?  Thanks for the tip!



I've made some lengthy mini-guide posts in this thread, I rescued some of them and put them into my thread or in the product reviews section, but I know there's some that I've forgotten. If you make a good thread with an attractive title, and put the link in your signature, anybody who sees your post could stumble over to your guide. Good luck!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





woofed said:


> Ya, it has Dolby home theater v4


 
   
  I'm not _sure_ Dolby Home Theater is the same DSP as Dolby Headphone.
   
  Maybe Nameless would know...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm not _sure_ Dolby Home Theater is the same DSP as Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Maybe Nameless would know...


 
  indeed, also Chico is ur avatar of you personally ;O, in addiotn how are the SportaPros [are they like the porta pros ] 
   
  Lastly... Nujabes and Mad Dogs is magical... Nujabes had a dark mystic Bright nature to his music... these cans capture the darkness and the bright very nicely, heavy subdued basslines and warm trumpets, a quick high hat melody... Good stuff, MAD GET THE MAD DOGS already!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> indeed, also Chico is ur avatar of you personally ;O, in addiotn how are the SportaPros [are they like the porta pros ]
> 
> Lastly... Nujabes and Mad Dogs is magical... Nujabes had a dark mystic Bright nature to his music... these cans capture the darkness and the bright very nicely, heavy subdued basslines and warm trumpets, a quick high hat melody... Good stuff, MAD GET THE MAD DOGS already!


 
   
  Not quite 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.  It's actually this guy
   
  The sporta pros are like the porta pros but with a different frame.  They're all KSC 35 drivers.  Sporta pros are the cheapest way to get the drivers though.
   
  I've been wearing mine on the parts express headband, and I likey.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mad Dogs are kind of moot for me now though, seeing as my LCD2 will be here any day now.

And speaking of the KSC35, I have to send that in to get fixed. :rolleyes:

Been using the 75s for weeks now.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Mad Dogs are kind of moot for me now though, seeing as my LCD2 will be here any day now.
> 
> And speaking of the KSC35, I have to send that in to get fixed.
> 
> ...


 
   
  So you went ahead and bought LCD-2s?
   
  I don't think the KSC75 will work on the headband mod, they don't rotate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought you drilled off a bit to allow the 75 to fit? 

And yeah, some Vegan LCD2s, which supposedly arrives today, but he didn't ship the right cable, so I have to wait for the replacement.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I thought you drilled off a bit to allow the 75 to fit?




No, it's to let the KSC 35 drivers rotate more freely. The 75s are too fat right where they clip on. They might work If you remove that outer plastic cover thing, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, my 35s still work. Just the cable is stripping off, and one of the plastic pieces that hide where the wires are soldered is gone. Lol. I'll test it out with the headband before sending it in to get fixed. Or perhaps I should just send them in asap.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Well, my 35s still work. Just the cable is stripping off, and one of the plastic pieces that hide where the wires are soldered is gone. Lol. I'll test it out with the headband before sending it in to get fixed. Or perhaps I should just send them in asap.


 I'm guessing Koss takes there sweet time to send out a replacement...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They do.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Oh, you were looking at Zigis' amp too? He just sent me the new wooden panels for my amp, I should do a formal review. Last I heard, he had everything he needed to build and sell a few amps. Mine has been absolutely wonderful, after I got it set up right.
> I've made some lengthy mini-guide posts in this thread, I rescued some of them and put them into my thread or in the product reviews section, but I know there's some that I've forgotten. If you make a good thread with an attractive title, and put the link in your signature, anybody who sees your post could stumble over to your guide. Good luck!


 
  Yeah  Have asked him about which desktop amps he could build. So could build both the O2, and his own hybrid tube amp.
  I think i pick the tube amp, just because it's handmade and a little bit more cool to have . I hope that tube amp, can boost the bass, and lower the treble a little on the dt 990 premium.


----------



## 1chi

Id like some help if anyone is willing to provide some insight- anyways sort of working on a budget here but lets assume anything totalling less than $700 is fine for entire package. 

The use will be primarily gaming some music and though id consider myself an audiophile i do not have the equipment nor have i ever really. That said i am an avid gamer with a lot of experience and aim to play competitively professionally. If possible id like to serve both my audio quality and accuracy/stage needs. I had been thinking the akg k550s since i could get those for a discount however after reading this article i have been leaning more towards the k702 should i be able to get them. I was then thinking of getting a xfi titanium fatal1ty pro pci express card with headphone amp (3.5mm  connection i think ) or the recon3d with same although ive read some negative reviews and comments regarding processing or the new Zxr with 129 snr and 1/4" amped headphone plug. Id like to go that route as it keep costs down for everything by having an amp built in however if there is a better solution im all ears. 

Is there a delay running sound card to amp to headphone? If so i may be opposed to this for gaming needs

Is there a decent amp built into these sound cards?

Should i go with a ht omega claro halo or something with more accuracy? Is there more of a delay there?

I need dolby 7.1 and dts 7.1 to be created by cmss 3d or something else for gaming needs 

Anyone have any suggestions? Ill be looking more through pages of this thread while i wait


----------



## Ljanmi

@Mad Lust Envy, chicolom
   
  So to sum it up, Q701 are all around the best possible headphones(for mortal people that pay about 350$ not compering to models 1000$+) that one PC gamer would ever want end expect from headphones  ? On internet I read a lot about Sennheiser HD 558 and how good they sound(some people say best of all) when modded. There are 2 simple mods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8i_ZGHHhuQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-knI5XuZ3KE&feature=youtu.be , I'm sure that you are well known with this subject and I am interested in your opinion about Q701 VS moded Sennheiser HD 558 in terms of positional cues, bas and treble(for movies and game immersion), sound stage etc... The price between those two is not important, just pure performance, joy while gaming and immersion, how it feels on the head is also not important as well as amplification


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> @Mad Lust Envy, chicolom
> 
> So to sum it up, Q701 are all around the best possible headphones(for mortal people that pay about 350$ not compering to models 1000$+) that one PC gamer would ever want end expect from headphones  ? On internet* I read a lot about** Sennheiser HD 558 and how good they sound(some people say best of all) when modded*. There are 2 simple mods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8i_ZGHHhuQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-knI5XuZ3KE&feature=youtu.be , I'm sure that you are well known with this subject and I am interested in your opinion about* Q701 VS moded **Sennheiser HD 558 in terms of positional cues, bas and treble(for movies and game immersion), sound stage etc.*.. The price between those two is not important, just pure performance, *joy while gaming and immersion*, how it feels on the head is also not important as well as amplification


 
   
  Read the front page about the HD598 and you will get a similar idea of how the HD558 sounds. The HD558 isn't quite the same, and is a little warmer than the HD598.
   
  Both Q701 and HD558 will do quite well with soundstage and positioning, but the Q701 will have more bass and a fuller sound (more weight and body) then the sennheisers which gives it an edge in fun and immersion.  The Sennheisers will sound a little bland and boring in comparison - with less impact to the sounds.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





1chi said:


> Id like some help if anyone is willing to provide some insight- anyways sort of working on a budget here but lets assume anything totalling less than $700 is fine for entire package.
> 
> The use will be primarily gaming some music and though id consider myself an audiophile i do not have the equipment nor have i ever really. That said i am an avid gamer with a lot of experience and aim to play competitively professionally. If possible id like to serve both my audio quality and accuracy/stage needs. I had been thinking the akg k550s since i could get those for a discount however after reading this article i have been leaning more towards the k702 should i be able to get them. I was then thinking of getting a xfi titanium fatal1ty pro pci express card with headphone amp (3.5mm
> 
> ...


 
   
  Under $700? That still leaves a LOT of headroom like you wouldn't believe. We're talking HE-500, used Stax Lambda setups, Koss ESP/950, etc. On the other hand, you'd probably want something more affordable to keep the costs down, like the HE-400.
   
  Adding an external amp to a sound card does NOT introduce delay. Not sure what gave anyone that idea. Personally, I'd suggest going with an external amp anyway, since it's better to match the amp to your headphones of choice than the other way around. (And if you choose to venture into electrostatics like the aforementioned Stax or Koss setups, you HAVE to use an external amp anyway.)
   
  The X-Fi cards don't have much in the way of built-in headphone amp circuits, but sound fine DAC-wise (at least the Auzentech-built ones and the Titanium HD do) and would make a great source for an external amp, along with having an edge in terms of gaming features. Not even the later Recon3D or Z-series cards really compare.
   
  I've heard good things about the HT Omega cards as far as C-Media offerings go, but have no hands-on experience or plans to buy one. All I can say is that anything based on a C-Media chipset, be it Asus or HT Omega or Auzentech or anyone else, is generally disadvantaged in terms of DirectSound3D and OpenAL API support compared to the Creative chipsets.
   
  CMSS-3D doesn't "create" Dolby Digital or DTS signals; that's what Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect are for, and even then, that's for a completely different purpose (mixing the PC sound signal into a compressed 5.1 stream that fits into limited S/PDIF bandwidth). What it will do, however, is take the source audio (be it encoded DD/DTS tracks from a movie, PCM channels from a software-mixed PC game, or DS3D/OAL 3D audio coordinates) and downmix it in such a way that you can hear the surround channels with distinct directionality over headphones.


----------



## Ljanmi

@chicolom Thx for a fast reply, I own a Beyerdynamic MMX 300 cans combined with a Asus Xonar DX audio card. Thinking about buying another pair of cans and see for myself difference between closed design and open design, so I got to Q701 as a rightful competitor for the given task thus Q701 is a semi open design I wonder if it makes a difference as I am looking for a widest possible stage(not compromising the sound performance) for direconal cues. Any advice, would it be a noticeable improvement, an upgrade to MMX 300? 
   
PS Plan to pair Q701 with Asus Xonar STX just for testing purposes, maybe later buy a dedicated amp if needed or STX is ok?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> @chicolom Thx for a fast reply, I own a Beyerdynamic MMX 300 cans combined with a Asus Xonar DX audio card. Thinking about buying another pair of cans and see for myself difference between closed design and open design, so I got to Q701 as a rightful competitor for the given task thus Q701 is a semi open design I wonder if it makes a difference as I am looking for a widest possible stage(not compromising the sound performance) for direconal cues. Any advice, would it be a noticeable improvement, an upgrade to MMX 300?
> 
> PS Plan to pair Q701 with Asus Xonar STX just for testing purposes, maybe later buy a dedicated amp if needed or STX is ok?


 
   
  The Q701 is a good open headphone to start with.  I've never heard the closed Beyers, but I hear the MMX 300 is pretty nice and has great positioning.  I imagine the Q701 will be more open sounding though.
   
  I think the STX is pretty powerful and may be enough as is.


----------



## Impulse

My STX drives my 250 ohm Beyer DT 880 just fine.


----------



## Ljanmi

To start with? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I thought that those 2 models are lets say the best 2 pair of cans that mortals can buy(I dont count extremely expensive cans). Is there something better you propose? 
   
  I plan to decide between 2 models(and I'm hardly keeping up the pace with that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 ) and to finish the story for the next 5 years or even more 




   
  PS I will keep the model I like more and the other one sell.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

I have my 65th Annie at the moment.  So far... they remind me of the HD650 where the mid bass hits but the low end isn't as prominent.  Sound stage ATM isn't very wide...I think these need to be burnt in also.  I'll give them a few hundred hrs.  
   
  The sound stage reminds me of the Astro A40's...not very wide.  I think the warmth makes it feel a bit congested. The pads remind me of the HD650's also.  The pads are comfy and the head band I know is there.  Ironically the Q's bump head band isn't as noticeable as the 65th head band.  But this is completely subjective.  Not everyone agrees with this.  This is what I am experiencing.  
   
  I've tried to switch the ear pads and I know its still a little early but at this point I can still hear a difference and can tell the Q vs the 65th.  More burn in and I will see if this changes.  So far I am not enjoying the 65th it feels too congested and not as airy as the Q.


----------



## kayan

Hey again, so I decided to order 2 different sets of cans to try out at the same time and then keep whichever one I like better:
   
  I got the V-Moda Crossfade 100 and the Sennheiser PC 350 SE
   
  The V-moda came in on Thursday and I was really excited about them, as I've been wearing the same other headset for many years. The Senn 350SE came in on Friday, and unfortunately I like them both, but each for different things:
   
  The V-M100 has amazing sound. It's lively, punchy, and very immersive. They were loud and clear, and I was just blown away by the quality - over my old Gamecom 777s. The issue I have with them is that the earcups are just ever so slightly too small, and after a mere 30 mins of playing CS:S my ears were aching because they pressed against the top part of my ear. I tried tucking my ears and fiddling with the position of the cups, and it still was starting to ache. *start disappointment mode*
   
  The Senn 350SE came in the following day and they were essentially what I expected. The sound wasn't so punchy, but it seemed more....refined? I'm not sure what the technical term is for that. The bass is there, but it doesn't kick (like with the V-M100s). In fact the sound is very, maybe the word I'm looking for is muted? However, the cans are huge! Wore them for nearly 6 hours, and they feel fantastic! No pain, no anything really. The mic, is also very high quality. The positional audio is also mind-blowing (I tried this in BF3, CS:S, DayZ).
   
  So, now I'm in a quandary....I want the punching and kicking sound of the V-M100 with the comfort of the Senn 350SE. Anyone have any suggestions? Maybe I'm just not trying the right headphones/set yet? I am open to suggestions, thanks. And again, the budget is around 300 +/- 50 bucks. Thanks for all the helpful replies so far.


----------



## Impulse

I take it you need closed headphones if you're looking at those two? Mad Dogs might be worth a look, I've been seriously eyeing them myself. Audio Technica A900 could be another option, or the Beyer DT 770 if you're able and not opposed to EQ'ing the bass for competitive play (my open Beyers are ridiculously comfortable IMO, and I have big ears).

Closed headphones for gaming are a tough one if you're into competitive gaming, there's always gonna be tradeoffs compared to similarly priced open headphones, but I think there's a lot of options out there better than those two. Pair any of them with a ModMic if you really want a well built boom mic.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I thought you drilled off a bit to allow the 75 to fit?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  oh well psh yea ifu  got LCD then Mad dog is usless to you. In addition I don't like the mad dogs for edm :O there not as tight as the dt 880 and there's not as much bass at the dt 990 e.e, they are nice however with Nu Jazz! In fact really nice


----------



## 1chi

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Under $700? That still leaves a LOT of headroom like you wouldn't believe. We're talking HE-500, used Stax Lambda setups, Koss ESP/950, etc. On the other hand, you'd probably want something more affordable to keep the costs down, like the HE-400.
> 
> Adding an external amp to a sound card does NOT introduce delay. Not sure what gave anyone that idea. Personally, I'd suggest going with an external amp anyway, since it's better to match the amp to your headphones of choice than the other way around. (And if you choose to venture into electrostatics like the aforementioned Stax or Koss setups, you HAVE to use an external amp anyway.)
> 
> ...


 
  I've looked at the Stax Lambda and that looks really nice just don't know how I'd go about getting a set-up with XLR or RCA that would be as productive as I hope so they will be replacement set afterwards I've decided when I'm willing to spend a bit more. For now I think I've decided on the K550 or K701/702 or the Q701. So in order to keep the cost down now and speed along the Stax setup would a Creative Titanium Fatal1ty with a built in 600ohm headphone amp be decent or should I go with a Soundblaster X-fi XtremeGamer and get an amp? If this is the case what amp would pair well with these?
   
  I need to be able to hear distinctly different channels and have surround sound in every game I play. This is why I need CMSS-3d then right?


----------



## wmf

Well im quite liking the ultrasone 2400s for gaming.. tried some gametime with BF3.... and they are SWEET.  good bass, weapon audio is amazingly nice. soundstage is wide.
   
  i like them.   not sure if they will replace my D7000s for "primary" gaming cans.. but they sure are a nice alternative.
   
  they are a keeper for me.
   
  all gaming was done on the PC, btw.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can take those D7000s off your hands. 


I like the Pro 2900s for gaming, but they are really overpriced...


----------



## Ljanmi

@chicolom 
   
I see your avatar pic is AKG Q701 white(I guess by your avatar that you own a AKG Q701) and you listened to how many models, 50-100, and you are primely into gaming, right?  So if it is the best posibble choice for you and you are fond of Dolby Headphone as I am too why would I look any further? From what I read I concluded that you cant really beat AKG Q701 for gaming and everything else I mean all around headphones. Just to add that I never listened anything else on PC except Beyerdynamic MMX 300 and my opinion is based on reading the forums, reviews on internet and so on...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Willing to bet the MMX300 is not gonna be bested or rivaled by many in terms of positional cues. The DT770, which those are modeled after, are literally the best I heard in positional cues. However, due to the closed design, it loses in air and sheer soundstage/openness. That isn't a detriment to its competitive gaming prowess, and I doubt anything you get will be a true upgrade for that purpose.


----------



## kayan

Quote: 





impulse said:


> I take it you need closed headphones if you're looking at those two? Mad Dogs might be worth a look, I've been seriously eyeing them myself. Audio Technica A900 could be another option, or the Beyer DT 770 if you're able and not opposed to EQ'ing the bass for competitive play (my open Beyers are ridiculously comfortable IMO, and I have big ears).
> 
> Closed headphones for gaming are a tough one if you're into competitive gaming, there's always gonna be tradeoffs compared to similarly priced open headphones, but I think there's a lot of options out there better than those two. Pair any of them with a ModMic if you really want a well built boom mic.


 
  Thanks for the quick reply. I honestly have never used an open pair of headphones, so I'm a bit biased. The closed is generally good, because of the roomie situation. How open are open backed headphones? Or in other words, how much sound actually leaks out?
   
  I did a search on Amazon, what are these Mad Dogs you spoke of?
   
  I'm not really into competitive gaming per se, but I'm not against being more competitive, my setup right now really kills my immersion factor, and that's what I'm shooting for - that and comfort.
   
  I did some actual music listening on each pair of phones this AM, and found that the Senn350 are just too "cold/harsh" <seems very analytical>, and that I really prefer the "warmer" sound of the V-Moda100. Does warmness relate to the FUN rating that the OP references in his ratings? And what are the best 2-3 sets around 3-350 (or less) period for sound and big ear pads -- closed and open?
   
  I have re-read the front page, as suggested by someone else, and found it to be very helpful, but there are so many choices.
   
  Also, I have a mixamp 5.8, is that good enough for AMP'ing any of the cans I'd be buying?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mad Dogs. You can't buy them off Amazon because it's a modified Fostex T50RP. Custom headphones aren't sold on Amazon.

https://www.mrspeakers.com/Audiophile-fostex-t50rp-upgrades-mrspeakers-mad-dog

Basically any headphones I mention will probably want more than the Mixamps can provide, unless specified otherwise. Planarmagnetic cans like the Mad Dogs can take a buttload of power, and scale accordingly.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kayan said:


> I did a search on Amazon, what are these Mad Dogs you spoke of?


 
   
  https://www.mrspeakers.com/


----------



## Impulse

Dan (MrSpeakers) also posts here on HF and there's a long thread about 'em if you wanna look into them. I haven't heard 'em myself but impressions look pretty good, not sure if they'd be up there w/the DT 770 in terms of sound stage tho. The pads look superb if you're not opposed to leather (it's real lambskin leather).
   
  There's varying degrees of open headphones, sort of, some just seem to leak out a lot more than others... But most are gonna leak out enough that anyone in the room will hear it unless there's also music playing over speakers or something (in which case you'll clearly hear _that_). So yeah, not recommended if you routinely game in the presence of others... Unless you have a closed option as a backup to switch to, it's gonna bug either you or them.
   
  I think you have a good sense of what MLE means by fun factor, tho ultimately the exact balance is gonna be subjective and something that's particular to your personal taste... Some might crave a lil more bass impact, others just want it present and detailed, etc. I've never heard the 350 but if it's anything like the 360 then it's kind of at the opposite end of the spectrum as the M-100, but I think there's plenty of room between those two (as far as where other headphones would fall).
   
  Mixamp will struggle w/some $300-range headphones (MD possibly) but not all, AT A-series are easy to drive (as are the two you've tried), DT 770 80-ohm version might be fine too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be clear, something like the DT880 and HE-4 are really well balanced with no over emphasis of any frequencies but a slight boost in certain ranges to give them more body and energy than a perfectly balanced can like a PC360 which is pretty balanced, but lacking in energy...perhaps a little boring. The Annie also rates very highly in fun for me, but in reality, are very, very well balanced. Probably the most balanced headphone I have heard. But it has body and energy to go with that.

Of course, bass emphasis does tend to add to fun and immersion more times than not, but it's not limited to just that. The Ad700 rates highly in fun (6 is high for a headphone with basically no bass to be felt). That soundstage and openness is it's own brand of fun.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just got the vegan (velour-ish) LCD2. Just as amazing as the leather padded LCD2 + velour comfort. The bass is just as amazing as I remember. Worries have been squashed. 



I'm so damn happy right now. My wallet hurts though, lol.

*
edit: DAT BASS AND MIDS*

It actually sounds more tonally accurate than the leather pair, with less treble roll off, while maintaining the stellar bass and mids. Very interesting. I believe the vegan LCD2 might measure better, juding by that graph vs the others I've seen online.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> @chicolom
> 
> I see your avatar pic is AKG Q701 white(I guess by your avatar that you own a AKG Q701) and you listened to how many models, 50-100, and you are primely into gaming, right?  So if it is the best posibble choice for you and you are fond of Dolby Headphone as I am too why would I look any further? From what I read I concluded that you cant really beat AKG Q701 for gaming and everything else I mean all around headphones. Just to add that I never listened anything else on PC except Beyerdynamic MMX 300 and my opinion is based on reading the forums, reviews on internet and so on...


 
   
  Yes, the Q701s are _MY_ favorite headphones out of the ones I've tried (see my profile), but that doesn't mean they will be _YOUR _favorite headphones
   
  But they are _my _top recommendation.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just got the vegan (velour-ish) LCD2. Just as amazing as the leather padded LCD2 + velour comfort. The bass is just as amazing as I remember. Worries have been squashed.


 
   
  I wonder if those Vegan pads would fit on D7000s.  Probably too big.
   
  I think there is a business opportunity for just making aftermarket earpads for various high end headphones, and someone should do it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





1chi said:


> I've looked at the Stax Lambda and that looks really nice just don't know how I'd go about getting a set-up with XLR or RCA that would be as productive as I hope so they will be replacement set afterwards I've decided when I'm willing to spend a bit more. For now I think I've decided on the K550 or K701/702 or the Q701. So in order to keep the cost down now and speed along the Stax setup would a Creative Titanium Fatal1ty with a built in 600ohm headphone amp be decent or should I go with a Soundblaster X-fi XtremeGamer and get an amp? If this is the case what amp would pair well with these?
> 
> I need to be able to hear distinctly different channels and have surround sound in every game I play. This is why I need CMSS-3d then right?


 
   
  Mine sounds fine with RCA. I'm not sure that I want to go to the expense of running XLR. Also remember that you can get 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA adapter cables.
   
  X-Fi cards tend not to have built-in headphone amp ICs, but you have plenty of external ones to choose from. Popular choices these days include the JDS Labs-built Objective2 and the Schiit Magni, though I have no ears-on experience with either of those, let alone in combination with the AKG headphones mentioned.
   
  Also note that as soon as you jump into Stax, you're going to have to sell off whatever headphone amp you were using prior, unless you're using some kind of integrated receiver as a headphone amp and connect a transformer box to the speaker taps. Electrostatics require specialized amplification, which is why you have to budget for the system, not just the headphones.
   
  Yes, that's why you need CMSS-3D Headphone-to get nicely virtualized surround sound, or even a proper binaural HRTF mix for the games that allow that, over headphones.


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can take those D7000s off your hands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  yeah the price on the 2900s are over the top ..    ive heard them briefly, and still prefer the 2400s ...
   
  ill get those 7000s recabled too.   that denon cable is SO easy to tangle ... not that its a bad cable, but damn, it gets messy.


----------



## 1chi

Will go Soundblaster X-fi XtremeGamer and Q701 then I believe, anyone got a recommendation on a good amplifier for these headphones? I'm going to look into that now however would appreciate the input.
   
  Anyone know of somewhere that you could hear these headphones in person?


----------



## wmf

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Willing to bet the MMX300 is not gonna be bested or rivaled by many in terms of positional cues. The DT770, which those are modeled after, are literally the best I heard in positional cues. However, due to the closed design, it loses in air and sheer soundstage/openness. That isn't a detriment to its competitive gaming prowess, and I doubt anything you get will be a true upgrade for that purpose.


 
   
  the mmx300 is basically a DT770 premium. at 32ohms. with a broadcast mic .. (if your into voice comms in games, u probably wont find better)


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Dan (MrSpeakers) also posts here on HF and there's a long thread about 'em if you wanna look into them. I haven't heard 'em myself but impressions look pretty good, not sure if they'd be up there w/the DT 770 in terms of sound stage tho. The pads look superb if you're not opposed to leather (it's real lambskin leather).
> 
> There's varying degrees of open headphones, sort of, some just seem to leak out a lot more than others... But most are gonna leak out enough that anyone in the room will hear it unless there's also music playing over speakers or something (in which case you'll clearly hear _that_). So yeah, not recommended if you routinely game in the presence of others... Unless you have a closed option as a backup to switch to, it's gonna bug either you or them.
> 
> ...


 
  the sound stage is a touch smaller than my xb 700 [which is technically semi open ish] and my dt 880s also DAMN ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. Sheesh the Mad Dogs are not BASS head cans. As mine have some serious sub bass ROLL OFF, listening to Nu Tone, and they have the detail of SUB BASS, but not the DAMN SLAM of sub bass...
   
  hmm my xb 700s have gone out I think... poor things lasted me a year e.e... and DMN I don't have another Sub Bass Can atm q.q [ NO mad Dogs u not good enough] TO THE TRADE forums
   
  maybe not, there is a TON MORE BASS in the left than the right... and Foo bar shows the front left being a louder current, still putting left to right ear balances them out :O... I don't  hear this with any other can... I take that back, I switched left and right in on my amp and it sounded balanced again... the tube maybe voltage is off? [but thankfully it's not the cans [cuz dmn they sound good] 
   
  Yup its the tube... one side is at 14.2 the other 13.34, ima roll another and see the differance. I have 4 rca Clear tops e.e
   
  so new 12ua7a balanced out... 
   
   
  Ehmm stil everything not xb 700 20hrz sounds BAD
   
  Ahh well I leanred something about the indeed g3, the bass switch Unb blances ur tube! It cranks the voltage up by about .1 or so... an so I guess after being used for so long one side gets more volts than the other


----------



## Evshrug

Calpis, did the headphones reach you?



chicolom said:


> Not quite  .  It's actually this guy




Looks like the picture was taken at Yale... No offense to any alumni of that school, but when I visited the campus I got the sense that Yale could be a place to see people wearing expensive full-sized headphones while walking about. And I'm not talking in the sense that an MIT student would wear a full size headphone too, an MIT student would more likely wear Mad Dogs connected to a custom O2 that is somehow more portable and an upgraded Android smartphone – the Yale student would probably have AKG Q701s or K550s connected to an iPhone 5 (cable shortened for portable use by someone they know) along with a sweater vest in the spring or fall.

What actually grabs my attention in that linked photo the most is that girl on the right, with what looks like a stocking over her face and coming up over her head. Could be a shadow because the contrast is quite high in that photo, but the effect is weird


----------



## kayan

More questions out of me 
   
  Would pairing the Senn PC350 with some type of desktop AMP increase the "funness" of these cans? If so, I may try that (as it looks like I'll need an amp regardless of the cans I end up deciding on). I've seen the Fiio 9 series on Amazon (and here in this post on the first page), would that be a good place to start?
   
  Also, what are the benefits of using an E9K with an E17? Why use them together? One's an amp and the other is a DAC? I'm not quite sure I understand what a DAC is or does, and/or why they would both be needed or used in tandem?
   
  If there would be better solutions for the money, please give me links 
   
  Also, should I decide on headphones before picking an AMP/DAC, or would I need to use the same AMP/DAC regardless of cans?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *kayan* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also, what are the benefits of using an E9K with an E17? Why use them together? One's an amp and the other is a DAC? I'm not quite sure I understand what a DAC is or does, and/or why they would both be needed or used in tandem?
> 
> ...


 
   
  DAC stands for Digital-to-Analog Converter and all it does is change your digital audio signal that your computer produces into an analog signal that your amp and cans understand. The overwhelmingly large amount of sound cards out there perform DAC operations for you, so you will very likely not need this. It becomes more important when you are dealing with devices that have poor or non-upgradeable DACs (laptops, portable players, etc...). Basically, if you have a decent enough sound card, you can simply grab an amp (the E09K in this example) and not worry about the DAC.
   
  In terms of decision making, decide on the sound signature you're looking for first, then the headphones that fit that signature, then the amp that pairs well with those cans. Unless you are getting some wild interference from the sound card, an outboard DAC is the very distant and last thing to look at, it at all.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Looks like the picture was taken at Yale...


 
   
  I think it was Oxford (England)
  http://ofcblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/aural-style-headphones-looking-good.html
   
  Ironically, I live in Oxford, Ohio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


 
   
  Out of the sheer kindness of my heart and my general giving nature, I shall humbly offer you a monetary exchange for the Annies, if it so does come to that. Yes, I am a good person.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahah. I'll keep that in mind. I rather not sell it. I will want it again, and with it's limited availability, I don't wanna take that risk of not being able to, and not for a decent price. I do NOT wanna get a standard K70x/Q with Annie pads and deal with that headband. 

Funny, the Annie holds up real well against the LCD2, IMHO. Even in bass. Surely, not matching the LCD2's bass, but it puts up a fight there.


----------



## Impulse

1chi said:


> Will go Soundblaster X-fi XtremeGamer and Q701 then I believe, anyone got a recommendation on a good amplifier for these headphones? I'm going to look into that now however would appreciate the input.




Budget? The usual suspects at $100-150 are the O2 (sold by JDS Labs & others), the Fiio E09K, and the Schiit Magni... There's several posts detailing the differences between them within the last few pages.




evshrug said:


> What actually grabs my attention in that linked photo the most is that girl on the right, with what looks like a stocking over her face and coming up over her head. Could be a shadow because the contrast is quite high in that photo, but the effect is weird




The one in the blue stripes? Looks like she just has a cap on and she's looking down, and the rest is some shadow or whatever above/behind her on the back wall..

Yale/Oxford dude's headphones are halfway down his neck tho, and those pants are either not sown like regular men's pants or he's got some serious twisting going on.

Totally ruined your avatar for me...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think it was Oxford (England)
> http://ofcblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/aural-style-headphones-looking-good.html
> 
> Ironically, I live in Oxford, Ohio.


 
   
  Oxford? That's nowhere near where I envisioned, I thought you were in north Dayton, like Huber or Tipp 
   
  I don't get out to the Oxford area much anymore, is the Smokin' Ox still open up there? I loved their specials when I worked in the field for TWC before moving into an office spot.


----------



## benbenkr

Just pondering on a purchase of a Fiio E09k.
  Currently, I'm running a Sennheiser HD558 to my PS3 with a Turtle Beach DSS. While it does sound fine, I do feel that I'm getting a little bit of distortion on volumes above the 2 o'clock mark on the DSS.
   
  Any reason if I should go for a FiiO E09k? While I know the HD558 is pretty easy to drive (50ohms), its actual impedence does fluctuate quite a bit depending on the volume and range —  AFAIK, anywhere from 60 ~ 250ohms (peak though).
  Will an E09k make the HD558 sound better?
   
  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Impulse

Wouldn't it's (relatively) high output impedance be troublesome for a headphone with significantly fluctuating impedance...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Oxford? That's nowhere near where I envisioned, I thought you were in north Dayton, like Huber or Tipp
> 
> I don't get out to the Oxford area much anymore, is the Smokin' Ox still open up there? I loved their specials when I worked in the field for TWC before moving into an office spot.


 
   
  Yep. 
   
  I''m pretty sure Smokin' Ox is still there.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


 
  amd I'm a moron...$200 late and I'm RICH in some mmo but I don't own a 3ds... talk about RAGE quiting *sigh* MONSTER HUNTER WHY U KNOW HERE YET xD


----------



## kayan

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


 
  I too, out of the goodness of my heart, would be willing to help you out with your car trouble through the exchange of money for your headphones, and unlike the other guy, you wouldn't have to ship them, because I am also in Orlando, FL.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


 
   
  Bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Man, if it came down to it I would try and sell something else instead.  The anniversaries will probably be hard to get a hold of again.  The price seems to be hovering up near MSRP now...


----------



## NumLock

I forgot all about this thread, heck I forgot about Headfi.
  Unfortunately I came back now my wallet is losing weight. Anyway, Nice review on the LCD-2. I plan on picking up a pair soon.


----------



## uniten

Hey guys, I need a little help. Does anyone have the  Xaunyan XY-006? They are out of stock and after a bit of research I noticed the striking similarity to the DAGEE DG001MIC.
   
  The similarity is so striking the looks, the specs and even the packaging seems to match:
   
  http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Wholesale-Hands-Free-Clip-Mini-DAGEE-001-Voice-Microphone-for-PC-Notebook-Black-Colour-Free-shipping/716690_733481518.html
   
  I mean the similarity is so close that if you look at the DX site, the pictures show 2 different mics for the Xaunyan XY-006, based on forum comments it seems the other version of the mic had rubber cabling at some point and a different look, some research into the DAGEE DG001 I found screenshots of the same rubber version existing in the past too.
   
  http://www.dhgate.com/portable-microphone-for-pc-computer-laptops/p-ff8080812f2de36a012f3e41fad26b89.html
   
   
  This makes me think that the Xaunyan XY-006 and DAGEE DG001 are the same exact mic either supplied by the same manufacturer or Xuanyan or dagee supply it to each other. The big difference here is that unlike the Xaunyan XY-006, the DAGEE DG001 is much easier to get my hands on so just curious if its the same mic. So if anyone that has one, can you please confirm?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sigh, my car broke down yesterday. Talk about bad timing. Depending on how much it costs...I might have to sell the Annies. I don't want to. I REALLY don't. But the LCD2 nuked my wallet. Here's hoping it's not gonna cost a lot.


 
   
  Aw, that sucks. Car parts are expensive.
   
  I was hoping to give that K702 65th a nice audition, too, but now I may not get the chance. (I really could use some first-hand AKG impressions for once.)
   
  Even then, I wouldn't be in the position to buy it now, seeing as this infernal site gets the best of my wallet yet again and I bid on a Stax SR-Gamma...and won, unexpectedly for anything Stax selling on eBay. Guess I had to find out how well the Gamma series can hold up to the Lambda series, even with the Lambda's driver size advantage.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Wouldn't it's (relatively) high output impedance be troublesome for a headphone with significantly fluctuating impedance...


 
   
  That's what I was thinking too... hmm~ decisions, decisions.
  I don't want to waste the time to get an E09k and just to sell it off a week later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, If I sold it, it'd be for right around $400 shipped. Considering it's no longer sold at $410-430 like before, and availability is disappearing. Being at $400 would give me a reason not to sell it either. Bought it at a higher price myself.

I really don't wanna sell it. Time will tell. There is nothing I find faulty on them, like...at all. Even the LCD2 has some minor quirks. Annies? ZERO.


----------



## calpis

It's been so long since I've played any games with my Pro2900 in stock form that I've forgotten how it sounded. Then again I'm too lazy to open up the drivers again and plug up the hole with tape. I'll pop in MW2 tomorrow and play a bit.
   
  Also, I do have the "Version 2" of the Hfi-2200 which is supposed to be identical to the 2400, except for the color, I prefer the 2900 compared to the 2200 because the 2200 sounds just too congested when there's a bunch of stuff going on in game. They're still good though but the 2900 is just better imo.


----------



## 1chi

How does this configuration sound?
   
  Titanium X-fi HD -> Objective2 -> Q701
   
  If this is agreeable (from what I can tell it seems to be very good) what cables should I use?
   
  Should I go with some audioquest rca to 3.5 for the first leg then the standard 3.5 to mini-xlr(?) or upgrade these?
   
  I would prefer to upgrade to something that would contain silver on the surface or throughout cable and possibly dieelectric biased. (Having difficulty so could use the feedback a bit.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I find myself with the Annies still, I'll go and make another round of loans to Nameless, and a few others. Probably MattTCG, and maybe even ask purrin to measure it.


----------



## Paradux

Hey guys.
   
  So I've been using the DT770s with an E17 and Mixamp for a few weeks now. I really like the DT770s but I feel like I need to go back to open backs. I shout a lot when I can't hear myself, and I just prefer the freedom of openness. Can anyone recommend something in a similar field?
   
  I currently use the E17's EQ to subtract the 770's highs and lows when playing competitive games, and I can flatten the EQ for single player and music which is nice. That being said people on here seem to point toward the higher end Beyers, Q701s and so called 'annies'.
   
  Any suggestions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 Pro is like an open DT770 Pro 80 but clearer, and faster.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For those interested in how the vegan LCD2 measure against the leather LCD2...(thanks to ninjames for the leather LCD2's graph).



Vegan on the left, leather on the right.

Very similar, but the vegan maintained a higher amount of treble, if slightly, as I mentioned. That paired with the pad differences, is probably why I felt the vegan version to be slightly less warm with more sparkle. The area between 1khz to just over 2khz has a bigger drop on the leather than the vegan as well... about 4db in the section after 2khz, if I'm reading it correctly.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I really don't wanna sell it. Time will tell. There is nothing I find faulty on them, like...at all. Even the LCD2 has some minor quirks. Annies? ZERO.


 
   
  Well, that's a surprise. With a statement like that, I'd think you'd sell the LCD-2 first.
   
  What quirks do you speak of? Leather pads? Allegedly small soundstage?
   
  Quote: 





1chi said:


> How does this configuration sound?
> 
> Titanium X-fi HD -> Objective2 -> Q701
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sounds good to me, chain-wise.
   
  I personally don't fret about cables; any intact and reasonably shielded RCA cable will do the job for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Smaller soundstage, heavy, clamp, mostly comfort issues.


----------



## chicolom

I went ahead and consolidated my "Q701 Vs. K702 Anniversary" thoughts into a review-style post.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/655082/akg-q701-vs-akg-k702-65th-anniversary-comparison-review
   
  It may be a bit over-kill for what is essentially a pad-mod, but here you go:
   


Spoiler: 

Click Me!



 

   
   
   
 AKG Q701 Vs. AKG K702 65th Anniversary | Comparison & Review      
 Quick comparison   

 *Q701*: Faster sounding, lighter/thinner, airier. Soundstage is more laid-back sounding with smaller individual instruments
  Soundstage has smaller individual instruments with a bit more separation between them as a result, and the instruments are lighter and "floatier." This gives the presentation of a more laid-back sound.
   

 *K702 65th Anniversary*: Lusher, "musical", more body, smoother, darker, less air, blacker background.
  Soundstage has larger individual instruments with bit less separation between them as a result, and the instruments are weightier and more grounded. This gives the presentation of a more forward sound.
   
   
_From my testing I've determined that the *sound differences* between the two headphones* can be attributed to the pads*. The actual sound of the underlying headphones and drivers themselves* are the same*. If you compare both the Q701 and K702 anniversary while they are both wearing the same type of pads, they essentially sound identical. So this review is mainly a review of the two sets of pads, and how they modify the sound..._
   
     
 Build   

 Essentially the build is identical to the Q701 and other K70x. The main differences are the newly redesigned* bump-less headband* and the *velour wrapped memory foam pads*. The cable is also slightly thinner, surprisingly (try not to roll over it with your chair!). The rest are aesthetic color schemes differences.
   
    Comfort   

 The smooth headband definitely improves the comfort over the old bump-band. Its simple math: 8 bumps are less comfortable than 0 bumps. If you don’t' have a lot of hair you may still want to add a pad for extra cushioning, but it's not as necessary as it was for the bump headband. Another potential benefit of the new headband is that it allows the headband to extend farther giving more space for larger heads.
   

 The new pads are quite soft - noticeably softer than the firmer standard foam. They are also quicker to compress, so they should help for people that felt uneven pressure on their jawline from the firmer regular foam pads. They are definitely shallower than the standard pads, and they are NOT angled. The thinnest part of the angled pads is nearly the same thickness as the whole anniversary pad. I would personally prefer them slightly thicker, since they're already thinner than the standard pads and are simultaneously quicker to compress. A little bit thicker and they'd be perfect. Still I've worn them for extended listening sessions with no complaints and very minimal shifting/repositioning of the headphones during the sessions. Either AKG is still the most comfortable headphone I've personally worn.
   
   
   
 Sound:   
 Bass   

 The Anniversary bass is fuller, weightier, has more body, and is more forward.
   

 While entire sound spectrum of the anniversaries gets a shift towards the warmer, I think the memory foam does seal in the bass some and perhaps give it a little extra warm boost over the other frequencies.
   

 The bass stays a little stronger into the lower sub-bass frequencies. It traps more of that bass and rumbles a little better as a result than the Q701s. On the Q701more of that lower bass escapes out of the pads I think.
   

 The difference between the bass isn't huge, and certain frequencies of the bass (mid-bass) share much in common with the Q701s.
   
   
 Mids   

 K702 anniversary mids are (again) smoother, weightier, and have more body.
   

 Going back to the Q701, you do hear a little more sound coming out of the upper mids. I think this is because the Anniversaries more smoothly connect their lower mids to their upper mids then the Q701. When you go back to listen to the Q701, the upper mids are just a little more isolated (and thus emphasized-sounding) in comparison.
   
   
 Treble   

 The anniversary treble is more smooth, polite, and forgiving - on the Q701 you can hear the breath of a voice or the bite of bow on a violin more clearly than with the anniversaries.
   

 If you’re somebody who finds the Q701 treble a little bothersome and a little too bright, the anniversaries may be the perfect choice as they are slightly darker but not too much. If you’re someone who finds the Q701 treble perfect, you might find the anniversaries slightly darker than you'd prefer.
   

 Q701s have more air, Anniversaries have a blacker background.
   

 I mentioned that the entire sound spectrum is shifted towards being warmer, and this is true for the treble too. In other words, the warmer lower frequencies aren't causing the treble to sound warmer - the _warmer treble itself_ is doing that!  If you're listening to a purely airy passage just by itself, you will notice the same darker sound - whether or not there is any bass or anything going on.
   
   
 Soundstage   

 The _actual soundstage size_ itself is similar between the two. The main differences between them are: the* size of the individual sounds*, the *weight of those sounds*, and the *amount of separation* in-between those individual sounds. These things end up affecting your impressions of the soundstage.
   

 Initially the *weightier *sound of the Anniversary pads can throw off your judgment of the soundstage size. Once you get more acclimated to the anniversary sound, you can listen "through" the weight a little better to the sound positions behind them, and they sound like they are actually coming from a similar place in the soundstage as the Qs. The individual sounds themselves are just bigger sounds and more grounded, and they take up a little bit more space inside the soundstage. Because of this, the Q701 can still give off the impression of having a little roomier soundstage - the sounds themselves are a little smaller and have more "personal space" around them in the soundstage. This extra space around the sounds gives them more distinct separation from each other. Smaller sounds themselves tend to sound farther away too. The anniversary sounds are bigger so less free space in-between the sounds. Having bigger sounds in the same space (soundstage size) means you don't quite get as clear a separation with them as on the Q701- sounds might start bumping into to each other sometimes.
   

 The bigger instruments themselves are a cool effect though. "Bigger sound" as they say. Bigger sounding instruments also usually means a slightly taller soundstage, and that's what I hear with the anniversaries.
   

 The Q701s have more air in between sounds, where the anniversaries have a darker, blacker background. I think that air may give a little greater impression of space and distance in-between sounds than the blacker background does. Like the air gives you something to measure the distance between sounds more. Minor difference though.
   

 The Q701 sounds are lighter and have more of that "floating" quality, which is something a lot of K70x owners love (myself included). People often say they enjoy how the AKGs make sounds feel like they are suspended out in front of you, floating. There is less of that with the Anniversary pads. They just have a more of a grounded quality to the sounds. Weightier sounds just don't "float" as well! That's not necessarily a bad thing, just depends which you like more - Floating sounds or grounded sounds.
   

 The Q701s you can hear the recording space a little better. You can hear the air and reverb in the room. This is mainly a factor when listening to classical music and other instrumental music in live spaces. For example, after a big orchestra hits and then goes silent, you can hear the sound reflections reverberate throughout the space and air, and you sort of get a shape of the music hall. The darker K702 cuts some of that out, and instruments fall into a blacker background. Again, this comes back to the airier background Vs. blacker background aspects of the sound, and is also related to the size of instruments Vs. amount of separation qualities of each.
   
   
 Gaming (with Dolby Headphone)   

 Both are great. Q701 would hold a small advantage for competitive, and 65s for fun.
   

 Dolby Headphone makes their soundstages behave more similarly to each other than they do in stereo.
   

 The Q701s advantage in separation means they require just a split-second less concentration to pinpoint things. This is a minor difference noticed when A-Bing directly though, and it may disappear after you have adjusted slightly to the Anniversary sound.
   

 The Q701's air can be lovely in surround, and sort of gives a connected-ness to the sounds. On the anniversaries, sounds emerge out of a blacker background - the effect may be more similar to actual home-theater speakers.
   

 The 65s greater body throughout the spectrum which gives them a definitive edge in the "fun" department. They sound more home-theater-y. Gunshots/explosions will have more weight and body, and the individual sounds are bigger and taller which can immerse you more. The Q701s soundstage separation and air also makes them a different kind of immersive.
   
   
 Closing thoughts   
  I think it's safe to say that the anniversary's balance is more general-purpose, where usually the x70x are recommended as being better at certain genres (usually instrumental stuff) than others. If you’re someone who digs the x70x but listens more outside of its usual recommended genres, then the anniversary may be a better choice. If you like the Q701s but wish they were a little warmer (closer to the Senneiser HD6x0), the anniversaries may be great.
   
  If you mainly listen to the typical genres the K70x is often recommended for, the standard x70x might be better - that extra air and soundstage separation can be important to those genres. If you also think the x70x balance is perfect as-is, you might prefer them to the anniversaries.
   
   
  Personally, I love the sound from both.  I can see myself swapping out depending on what I'm listening to or which sound I'm in the mood for:
   

 One thing I love the most about the Q701 is how sounds can seem like they're floating out in front of your head, and you get less of that with the K702 Anniversary pads. That's BIG for me. I also really enjoy the greater sense of air on the Q701s, and I think the treble is about perfect.
   

 The Anniversaries have their own advantages though. I enjoy the weightier sounds and greater body coming from the anniversary pads. They can be pretty fun and immersive. Having that little extra presence from the lower bass is nice, and I found it harder to resist bobbing my head when using the anniversary pads.
   
  Since they share the same base sound (and are essentially pad mod/variations on that sound) there's a good chance if you like one, you will also like the other.
   
   
  If you do like both, the good news is that you don't have to own to different pairs to get both sounds. If you own both pads, you will "own" both sounds No need to keep two headphones around. You can mod any (recent) x70x into having the anniversary sound by just getting a hold of their pads. I've fallen in love with both of their sounds. For those who feel the same way as me, there's nothing wrong with keeping a set of each pad around.
   
  Because I was able to get the K702 anniversary at good price (and because I prefer the aesthetics and headband on it over the Q701), I decided to sell my beloved Q701s and keep the Anniversaries as my main headphone. That's saying something, because my Q701s have been my favorite headphone since the day I got them and have come out on top against a fair amount of other impressive headphones.  So selling them was an emotional event for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
   
  I wasn't about to give up their sound though, so I immediately went and ordered a pair of Q701 pads from AKGs.  My Q701s will live on vicariously through the K702 Anniversaries 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
   
   
 Photos


----------



## AxelCloris

So with both Chico and MLE confirming, sounds like my next headphone purchase is for some pads. I have no issue with the bumps on my Qs and I honestly prefer the white to black styling, but that little ring of blue is a gorgeous hue. Really pops against the black.


----------



## Evshrug

impulse said:


> Wouldn't it's (relatively) high output impedance be troublesome for a headphone with significantly fluctuating impedance...




Have you considered the FiiO E12 Mont Blanc as an amp instead? Basically the same power as the E09k, but only an 0.5 ohm output impedance, and of course all the convenience of battery power and portability.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Smaller soundstage, heavy, clamp, mostly comfort issues.


 
  Stop telling me about the lcd 2 Vegna pad q.q I'm,gonna end up BROKE AND BUYING ONE. I like the mad dogs and well an open can with that sound sig :O [die inside] 
   
  Also I've missed my dt 880s , they have more bass than the Mad Dogs [due to better sound stage and instrument seperation, not to mention the crisper sound sig!] it's very clean and well ME GUSTA. Not sure if I want the pro 600 ohm e.e that extra bass mite PISS ME OFF


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Stop telling me about the lcd 2 Vegna pad q.q I'm,gonna end up BROKE AND BUYING ONE. I like the mad dogs and well an open can with that sound sig :O [die inside]
> 
> Also I've missed my dt 880s , they have more bass than the Mad Dogs [due to better sound stage and instrument seperation, not to mention the crisper sound sig!] it's very clean and well ME GUSTA. Not sure if I want the pro 600 ohm e.e that extra bass mite PISS ME OFF


 
   
  Do you think your DT 880s are better than the Mad Dog? I thought the DT 880s were semi open? They still have more bass than the closed back Mad Dogs?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Smaller soundstage, heavy, clamp, mostly comfort issues.


 
   
  Ah, comfort issues. Those can totally kill what would otherwise be a great headphone.
   
  As I've said before, lower clamping force is a major reason why I prefer vintage Stax Lambdas to modern (Nova/numerical) ones. The newer ones aren't skull-crushingly hard by any means, but I notice after a few hours, and it's quite distracting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, same. The vegan LCD2 isnt horrible in comfort, but it could definitely be better. After a few hours, I went back to the Annies and it was night and day...


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Well, there's some other nice options in the same price range (or lower even), you got an E17 or some particular reason drawing you to the E09K?


 
   
  Particular reason would be to connect the E09k to my Turtlebeach DSS for the PS3. E17 doesn't work because it needs a USB connection.
  I know some popular alternatives would be an O2 or a Schiit Magni, but both of them are not available here. Worldwide shipping cost way too much till the point that sticking with the E09k seems like the best option.


----------



## kenshinhimura

benbenkr said:


> Particular reason would be to connect the E09k to my Turtlebeach DSS for the PS3. E17 doesn't work because it needs a USB connection.
> I know some popular alternatives would be an O2 or a Schiit Magni, but both of them are not available here. Worldwide shipping cost way too much till the point that sticking with the E09k seems like the best option.




Couldn't you just use a 3.5mm aux cable from headphone input on dss to input on e17 and plug headphone into e17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, yeah. The E17 works fine without USB. The only Fiio amp that need a USB connection is the E10.


----------



## Impulse

benbenkr said:


> Particular reason would be to connect the E09k to my Turtlebeach DSS for the PS3. E17 doesn't work because it needs a USB connection.
> I know some popular alternatives would be an O2 or a Schiit Magni, but both of them are not available here. Worldwide shipping cost way too much till the point that sticking with the E09k seems like the best option.




Oh gotcha... I wasn't suggesting the E17 btw, more like asking if you wanted the E09K so you could dock an E17, it does have other inputs besides USB but it might or might not fit your amping needs.

If it's for the Q701 (IIRC), others in this thread might be able to better address that. Where you at tho? There's some European manufacturers for the O2, I think, I'm certain it's available in the UK at least.


----------



## kenshinhimura

So 3.5mm stereo to dual rca and connect to audio in on e9k would do it if that's what you meant.


----------



## kayan

In everyone's opinion what do you think are the best closed cans for gaming? With emphasis on large ear pads, and fun sounding, with a slightly lower emphasis on competitiveness.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Denon D7000. Good luck.


----------



## kayan

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Denon D7000. Good luck.


 
  Shame on me, I should have clarified: Same as above, but under 450.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure how the Mad Dogs fare for gaming, but they cost $300, and are very highly regarded. I'd probably choose the one with the Dog Pads, as it's more 'fun' than the one with Alpha pads. The Mad Dogs have a very similar response to the older LCD2.

https://www.mrspeakers.com/Audiophile-fostex-t50rp-upgrades-mrspeakers-mad-dog

Planar magnetic goodness.

I heard the soundstage was pretty good for a closed headphone, and isolation is among the best.

I still wanna hear one.

Sadly, I don't have much experience with closed headphones, as I tend to ignore them. Open headphones are just so much better overall, IMHO.

The Pro 900 was good in fun and competitive, but it was terribly bright/fatiguing in the treble. The DT770 Pro 80 was great for fun, but way too bassy overall, and veiled sounding at times.


----------



## kayan

Well what would you suggest to a new headphone purchaser for open cans, for the same things I mentioned above.

I could swing an open as I would like to re-buy the V-Moda 100s when the larger pads release. I also have a backup closed headset, in case.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> Couldn't you just use a 3.5mm aux cable from headphone input on dss to input on e17 and plug headphone into e17?


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, yeah. The E17 works fine without USB. The only Fiio amp that need a USB connection is the E10.


 
   
  OH!! Wonder why it didn't hit my head that the E17 does operate on battery power too... okay that gets sorted.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Oh gotcha... I wasn't suggesting the E17 btw, more like asking if you wanted the E09K so you could dock an E17, it does have other inputs besides USB but it might or might not fit your amping needs.
> 
> If it's for the Q701 (IIRC), others in this thread might be able to better address that. Where you at tho? There's some European manufacturers for the O2, I think, I'm certain it's available in the UK at least.


 
   
  Sorry I read your post wrong, "got" as "get... lol. Silly me.
   
  I live in Malaysia, so it's in the SEA region. Most of the stuff from the US and Europe are hard to come by here... and even if they do, they're jacked up on price beyond reasoning simply because they are "limited". 
   
  So the suggestion here is to go for an E17 instead of a E09k? The E17 does cost a little bit more though.


----------



## calpis

Got in the HE-400 and the ODAC from the MLE loaner program. The HE400 sound is quite different from my Pro2900, dunno which I prefer yet for music since I've only played with them for a couple hours so far with A-B testing. 
   
  Oh, also I think I know why the usb cable that MLE included with the ODAC wasn't working, I'm pretty sure that cable is a "charge only" cable. The power led lights up on my card reader with it but that's about it. The other cable works fine though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That took waaay too long to get to you.


----------



## calpis

Yeeeeeah, the chain of unfortunate incidents that happened to me today didn't help either lol.


----------



## OnePunchMan

Would any of you gents offer any suggestions on where i can get my paws on a 2010-2011 mixamp? maybe somewhere here on head-fi or another trustworthy source? To e honest I've never purchased anything off of amazon and ebay or the like. Maybe one of you have one you'd like to get off yer own paws?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Since I gave my PC360s away I am in need of a portable setup for Mixamp playtime. Since I don't want to drag my HD800s around (and their hard to amp character) I thought about getting something that can feed enough on a E11/E12 or even by the Mixamp alone. 
   
  I wish Denon would still produce the D7000, it might have been my top choice. How does its soundstage compare to DT990, Q701? I totally forgot about them. Now since I most likely won't be able to get them I am looking for alternatives.


----------



## kenshinhimura

@benbenkr

Do you need a portable amp or dac? If not just get the e09k.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

onepunchman said:


> Would any of you gents offer any suggestions on where i can get my paws on a 2010-2011 mixamp? maybe somewhere here on head-fi or another trustworthy source? To e honest I've never purchased anything off of amazon and ebay or the like. Maybe one of you have one you'd like to get off yer own paws?




I have one I can sell to you for $100. The only thing is, that the volume knob distorts heavily, so I would leave it maxed out, and control volume with the game/voice knob. If you're gonna use an external amp after the Mixamp, then the volume knob will be maxed anyway. PM me if interested.

I bought it right around the time of getting my Marantz receiver... and I honestly don't have a need for it, other than voice chat, which I literally never use other than testing headsets.


----------



## Grymok

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 Pro is like an open DT770 Pro 80 but clearer, and faster.


 
  Hmm, just got the DT990, but i really miss the bass, not sure if i got a bad version, or if i need some more juice for the headphones? :S. 
  Tried running them direct from my sound card, and from my Denon receiver. The receiver deliver the best performance, but still not a lot of bass :S.


----------



## OnePunchMan

other than the distortion, the rest of the amp works fine and whatnot?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





grymok said:


> Hmm, just got the DT990, but i really miss the bass, not sure if i got a bad version, or if i need some more juice for the headphones? :S.
> Tried running them direct from my sound card, and from my Denon receiver. The receiver deliver the best performance, but still not a lot of bass :S.


 
   
  I've found the bass is definitely more pronounced on the DT 770 Pro and probably due to its closed-back design.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Oh, also I think I know why the usb cable that MLE included with the ODAC wasn't working, I'm pretty sure that cable is a "charge only" cable. The power led lights up on my card reader with it but that's about it. The other cable works fine though.


 
   
  Given other comments on the ODAC, I'm pretty sure the cable MLE had is the usual cable that JDS Labs bundled with it, but somewhere along the line, the data wires must have broken while the power and ground wires are still intact somehow.
   
  Regardless, the original cable doesn't work like it should, and that's why I threw in a mini-USB cable of my own. (Good thing I had a spare mini-USB cable for my own uses.)


----------



## Paradux

The impression I get from MLE's guide is that the DT990's have less space inside the cups, and frankly my ears barely fit inside the DT770s as it is. Can anyone suggest if this would be a problem for me?
   
  Also question for MLE if I may? I know the 990s were a standard for you which you replaced with the annies? Can I ask why, and if going up that big step in budget would be worth it?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Do you think your DT 880s are better than the Mad Dog? I thought the DT 880s were semi open? They still have more bass than the closed back Mad Dogs?


 
  ... Yup, I think it's due to the increased sound stage and overall tightness of the bass in the 880s. Plus the Mad Dogs have SUCH forward mids that it really takes away from the bass a little, where as [[for me]] the Dt 880 [along with my thick tube] has just enough mid to be enjoyable. I've eq'd a TINSY bit more into the dt 880 and still liked it [but eqing neutral cans and music that IS NOT edm is a sin for me] SO I was hoping the mad dog would have more mids and it does, although for MEGA MID HEAVY VOCAL tracks the mad dog HONKS... even on a Thin tight airy tube [and solid state] Although that's the recording more than anything. Still though yea the 880 has more bass for me [the bass is tighter and hits a little quick n harder] where as the mad dog the bass is very laid back and lingers a little. Which for me isn't my thing [unless it's the FART CANNON bass of the xb700.] 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not sure how the Mad Dogs fare for gaming, but they cost $300, and are very highly regarded. I'd probably choose the one with the Dog Pads, as it's more 'fun' than the one with Alpha pads. The Mad Dogs have a very similar response to the older LCD2.
> 
> https://www.mrspeakers.com/Audiophile-fostex-t50rp-upgrades-mrspeakers-mad-dog
> 
> ...


 
  The dt pro 990 are apprently a nice can for gaming. And YES the mad dogs are good for gaming I think, but that's mostly because I have noisy room mates and the mad dogs isolate really well
  Quote: 





grymok said:


> Hmm, just got the DT990, but i really miss the bass, not sure if i got a bad version, or if i need some more juice for the headphones? :S.
> Tried running them direct from my sound card, and from my Denon receiver. The receiver deliver the best performance, but still not a lot of bass :S.


 
  ... I'n not going to REALLY say it but BURN IN, I dunno it always works for me. Every Can everytime. I think that's because our brain adjust to the can I Dunno. It's a mental thing I'm sure but ALSO
   
  I LOVE semi and open can bass and Closed Bass pisses me off Hence is why the dt 880 has more bass for me than the Mad Dog


----------



## Happy Bullets

@ OnePunch Just hit up eBay for a mixamp....dont be scared  100$ for a mixamp with distortion is a bit pricey. You can find them for 60-80$ in good shape all the time.


----------



## Evshrug

Such good music right now... Real tired, but the music is so good ^___^

P.S.
I don't know if I ever used Nameless' USB cord while borrowing the ODAC (the cable was branded LaCie, right?), after one didn't work I just tried two of my own I knew worked. I'm thinking my computer just couldn't load the drivers, not a typical situation or the ODAC's fault.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't know if I ever used Nameless' USB cord while borrowing the ODAC (the cable was* branded LaCie*, right?).


 
   
   

   
  .....Anyone get it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As an RPG fan, you know it.

THANKS Happy Bullet. If he can find a legit 2011 Mixamp for that price, good luck. Pretty much every Mixamp I've seen is the 2013 version. I bought this distorfed pair for $130 because it was all I could find. Either way, it works perfectly, as long as you leave the volume knob alone. Dunno anyone who plays while constantly adjusting volume.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Lol...that sucks. I keep my eye on them and they are in the 50-80$ range lately.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only ones I've seen at $85 are for the amp only. Zero accessories. You will need a y cable, usb cable, optical cable, rca to 3.5mm, 3.5mm cables. All that adds up even if you buy seperately, and cheap 3rd parties. Mine came with everything, Including the box, long usb cable, etc.

 The only I don't have is the rechargeable battery pack, which was useless to begin with as you're constantly tethered anyways. That's most likely why they got rid of the battery bay in the 2013 edition. It was redundant.

Again, unless you're constantly adjusting volume, the Mixamp is fine.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I'm gonna hafta take that mixamp off yer hands then. I'll pm ya when I'm ready to buy it. I want to get my ad700s and that mixamp at the same time on my birthday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool. I was looking for any reason to use it, by my Marantz really made it moot. Do you have an external mic? I'll include my DX clip on mic, since I won't be needing it...


----------



## aBc.CaN

Just wanted to thank you Mad Lust Envy for your great headphone guide!
  I bought the Skullcandy SLYR headphones and boy were they a great buy!
   
  In music my ASG-1.2 kicks it's ass... BUT in movies it's reversed and the SLYR kicks ass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have yet to test the SLYR in games, but I'm sure it'll pull ahead.
   
  I'm sooo surprised it's better than my ASG-1.2!
   
  I wish I could keep it! (Bought it for a friend)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad to hear they're working out for you. For such a low price, the SLYR is a must have for those who want a headset. The meaning of bang for buck is strong with that headset. For sure.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I dont actually have an external mic, been trying to figure out what i was gonna do in that regard.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





onepunchman said:


> I dont actually have an external mic, been trying to figure out what i was gonna do in that regard.


 
   
  There can only be one, Antlion ModMic.


----------



## Evshrug

I keep saying I should sell my AD700 (was completely taken by my Q701's last night through Zigis' SET tube hybrid) with hookups/adapters for gaming, but... then I keep taking it out again to game with. Guess I'm just stubborn.




onepunchman said:


> I dont actually have an external mic, been trying to figure out what i was gonna do in that regard.




I bought these... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DJOIHE/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
They're currently out of stock (have come back in stock a few times), but you get the benefits of buying on Amazon and they ship in like a week. Similar brands may suffice, but this is the one I personally bought and use. Seller was BestDealUSA. If you buy Mad's Mixamp & he gives you his DealExtreme lapel mic, you should be fine: I suspect that they're essentially the same mic.


----------



## jronan2

Just letting the gamers out there know I have a 2010 wired astro mixamp for sale as I have been out of the gaming scene for a while. Info in is my sig. Sorry for derailing the thread.


----------



## Hawaiiancerveza

Quote: 





jronan2 said:


> Just letting the gamers out there know I have a 2010 wired astro mixamp for sale as I have been out of the gaming scene for a while. Info in is my sig. Sorry for derailing the thread.


 
  Pmed you and waiting on a reply.


----------



## Evshrug

jronan2 said:


> Just letting the gamers out there know I have a 2010 wired astro mixamp for sale as I have been out of the gaming scene for a while. Info in is my sig. Sorry for derailing the thread.



Probably more appropriate to list this in the For Sale forum, or at least link to your FS post from here. Also helps to build your feedback reputation.


----------



## jronan2

I posted just a small note about it, it was linked to my sig but it sold 5 min after my post. I had it in f/s forum for a month.


----------



## Makiah S

Bleh selling my Mad Dogs, they are a little to warm for me :/ that and the RESONANCE they have with mid heavy songs... those poor things can HONK XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should expect that from a closed headphone. That's why closed headphones are like last resort for me.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You should expect that from a closed headphone. That's why closed headphones are like last resort for me.


 
  TELL ME ABOUT IT
   
  The annies are closed are they not? I'd LIKE a GOOD freaking Closed can for crying out loud <.< which I guess the Mad Dog is, still I'm not a big portable user any moar although I really do need a decent pair
   
  NOPE Annies are open back.
   
  I might try one of those WOODEN Audio Technica's I've seen around here


----------



## Evshrug

Mshenay,
The Q701 I have leaks out plenty of sound, though a little less when someone is wearing it. My mom wasn't complaining about it while she was making dinner, and I could hear when she talked to me (I usually had to pause and ask "what?" when she did, though  ). Open-backed headphone hasn't been an issue for me.

Those wooden ATs are gorgeous, but they scream for regular cleaning and obsessing. Mad is probably going to tell you any minute now how he didn't like them so much for gaming (though possibly enjoyed them for music?).



jronan2 said:


> I posted just a small note about it, it was linked to my sig but it sold 5 min after my post. I had it in f/s forum for a month.




Ah, I couldn't see your sig from my mobile browser, so I'm glad for you that you have the chance to gain more seller feedback


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only closed Audio Technicas I've heard were the M50, ES7, ESW9, amd A900x. None of them are good for gaming. Also didn't like the A900x for any purpose, though I liked it more than the K550. Both were...meh.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I keep saying I should sell my AD700 (was completely taken by my Q701's last night through Zigis' SET tube hybrid) with hookups/adapters for gaming, but... then I keep taking it out again to game with. Guess I'm just stubborn.


 
   
   
  Evshrug, since you've been holding on to the AD700s for so long, maybe you'd find it worthwhile to upgrade to the AD700X or AD900X.
   
  I've some read good things about the AD900X at least, (I haven't seen as much info on the AD700X), so it could be a worthwhile improvement.


----------



## Impulse

MLE, as far as the A900, is that in relative terms compared to the bevy of open headphones you've tried? Or did you just flat out hate them?

Just curious, since I've often seen them recommended as a decent choice for gamers if you have to go closed, and I actually know a couple people that game with them.

I can't say I've gamed with them myself, but based on short listens I'd probably take them over the M50... Wasn't crazy about either tho.

Haven't heard the K550.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just don't like them for any use. Their signature just seemed lifeless and dry. Not for me. The K550 was worse, in that it added thinness to the mix.

If it's gonna be dry and lifeless, at least have a huuuuge soundstage or something to make up for it.

However, these are brief demos, and not a really lengthy one, so my opinion on the A900x shouldn't be taken too seriously.


----------



## calpis

Felt super depressed after the news of Google Reader death and barely spent any time with the HE400 today


----------



## Impulse

Heh, did you use it at your desktop/laptop? I always preferred opening a bunch of tabs and scanning thru them myself to check my daily sites.

I did use Reader on my phone tho, as a way of synchronizing feeds into a widget so I could easily monitor which sites had posted new content, guess I'll just have to add the feeds manually now.

Does Google have something like Currents for PC use? I'd been messing with it on the tablet and it's rather handy, not a Reader replacement per se tho.


----------



## calpis

I used Reader mainly for tumblr, a few tech sites, and ebay (for newly posted auctions). Used the tags to organize tumblr pics and starred things for future reference. Used it both on the desktop and phone. I'm going to miss it immensely.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cal, how was the HE400? Impressions!


----------



## chicolom

Calips, don't forget about the parts express heaband in the HE400 box!


----------



## chicolom

2000th post!!


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Cal, how was the HE400? Impressions!


 
   
  Probably in a couple hours... finally found my zune dock so I can line out instead of using the headphone output to connect it to my vintage denon amp.


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The only closed Audio Technicas I've heard were the M50, ES7, ESW9, amd A900x. None of them are good for gaming. Also didn't like the A900x for any purpose, though I liked it more than the K550. Both were...meh.


 
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> MLE, as far as the A900, is that in relative terms compared to the bevy of open headphones you've tried? Or did you just flat out hate them?
> 
> Just curious, since I've often seen them recommended as a decent choice for gamers if you have to go closed, and I actually know a couple people that game with them.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I currently own the A900X and I think they are great for gaming. They have a pretty wide soundstage for a closed back headphone and positional accuracy is very good. When I play Left4dead2 versus mode online, I can easily tell where the Special Infected is spawning and helps me clear them out a lot faster. Highly recommended if you need a closed back for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't try them for gaming. I just didnt like them for music. Closed headphones should be enjoyable for music for me.


----------



## calpis

So I played some Blops2 with the HE400 hooked up to my avr-254. Hardcore TDM and awareness perk equipped and I was easily able to position all the sounds all around me pretty easily. Explosions and what not get out of the way pretty quickly. Tried sniping... I'm a terrible sniper. Moved to the trusty future AK and did much better. I found the soundstage to be a good size and pretty natural imo. Overall it was an enjoyable experience. I would of played some MW2 too but it's in a box somewhere.
   
  I then quickly swapped to my pro2900 (side note: mine are slightly modded by opening one of the holes behind the driver magnet which increases the mid-bass quite a bit). Blops2 just became a lot more immersive. gun shots gave off a pleasurable crack with every shot and the explosions rumbled my head a bit.  Soundstage felt smaller. Grenades and helicopters drowned out a lot of what I was trying to listen to. My scores were still decent though for not having played in about 2 months and not playing with my usual friends.
   
  Music wise, I'd say that the HE400 is pretty magical. I love the amount of separation it has, there ain't no bloat or bleed over. I don't know if it's the odac or the HE400 but I'm hearing new things in my usual songs... the Macross Frontier OST.  It's brought new life to that OST, like seriously, I'm kinda blown away atm.
   
  As for the pro2900, I'm going to un-mod them later today since I've really forgotten how they used to sound. I was hypnotized by the mid-bass for so long and now I think it's time to go back after hearing the HE400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Selling my Annies. $400 shipped to USA, $413 if not gifted.

The Annies and vegan LCD2s are too similar to justify owning both...

Don't let these babies slip through your fingers...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/655458/k702-65th-anniversary


----------



## zx6guy

[size=10pt][size=10pt]Correct me if I’m wrong but the DSS will only output in 7.1 if an analog input is used otherwise it will output in 5.1 (assuming the xbox is set to DD and an optical is used).  Is the MixAmp somehow superior since it ups a digital signal to 7.1?  I'm somewhat new so apologies ahead of time.  [/size][/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Easy, It's not 7.1. Despite false advertising, you can only get 5.1 from an optical source. However, because Dolby Headphone is so good at what it does, they can label it 20.1 and it wouldn't be far off. Directionality on the Mixamp doesn't have 'speaker cues'. Sound literally comes from anywhere in a 360 around you, horizontally.

If anyone is interested, I'll sell my 2011 wired Mixamp for $90 SHIPPED.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> [size=10pt][size=10pt]Correct me if I’m wrong but the DSS will only output in 7.1 if an analog input is used otherwise it will output in 5.1 (assuming the xbox is set to DD and an optical is used).  Is the MixAmp somehow superior since it ups a digital signal to 7.1?  I'm somewhat new so apologies ahead of time.  [/size][/size]


 
   
  The DSS version 1 _does_ do "7.1" Dolby Headphone, exactly the same as the mixamp, but only if an optical signal is used (again, same as the mixamp).
   
  An analog input means it is upsampling stereo and you only get 4 or 5.1 Pro logic, which is inferior to dolby headphone.
   
   
  The mixamp and DSS both have the same current chip that does Dolby Pro Logic IIx and upscales Dolby Digital 5.1 signal into Dobly Headphone 7.1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

7.1 upmixing isn't the same as 7.1. 

Though if I had a word in it, the Mixamp does 100.1 anyways.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 7.1 upmixing isn't the same as 7.1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm just saying that the DSS and mixmap both do it.  They both "upmix" to 7.1, using the same dolby chip.
   
  I agree that it doesn't really mean anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah true.

One thing I'll miss is the Pro Logic II conversion for PS2/Wii games. My Marantz receiver doesn't do it.


----------



## OnePunchMan

MLE I'm gonna buy that mixamp off you. I'll pm you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool.


----------



## chicolom

Is there a list of current receivers that have dolby headphone processing?  I looked a little and couldn't find any that weren't from several years ago.
   
  I still think FiiO, or even someone like Asus, should make what is essentially a more powerful version of the mixamp.  Same dolby headphone chip, but with desktop amp power and noise floor. 
   
  Ideally it would also have good analog inputs, so you can pair it with external DACs, and also ideally the internal amp would be "audiophile" enough that you could just use it as your default headphone amp and sell of any other headphone amps. If it was that good then it's allowed to be anywhere between 150-300$ IMO.
   
  So really even an E9 with a dolby headphone chip inside and toggle switchs for Dolby or Pro Logic ON/OFF and analog external input/digital input.
   
   
  Surely a more audiophile company wouldn't mind drawing the big market of console gamers with headphones away from Astro/Turtle Beach/Tritton/etc?
   
  I'm in for kickstarting this!


----------



## zx6guy

[size=medium]I think I just realized my mistake.  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Based on my reading here I went out and got a AD700 and Mixamp about 4 weeks ago.  I’m coming from stereo so I was expecting something great but instead it felt like it was missing.  On a whim I got a DSS on ebay and it ending up feeling better.  I was confused because I spent almost 4x as much on the Mixamp but I think I just realized I got the old (5.1 Mixamp) version.  [/size]
   
  [size=medium]Is the consensus that 7.1 (upmixed) is better than 5.1 right?  Or am I crazy by saying the $25 DSS sounds better?    [/size]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> [size=medium]I think I just realized my mistake.  [/size]
> 
> [size=medium]Based on my reading here I went out and got a AD700 and Mixamp about 4 weeks ago.  I’m coming from stereo so I was expecting something great but instead it felt like it was missing.  On a whim I got a DSS on ebay and it ending up feeling better.  I was confused because I spent almost 4x as much on the Mixamp but I think I just realized I got the old (5.1 Mixamp) version.  [/size]
> 
> [size=medium]Is the consensus that 7.1 (upmixed) is better than 5.1 right?  Or am I crazy by saying the $25 DSS sounds better?    [/size]


 
   
   
  I think the consensus is that it's mainly marketing and that there's barely any audible difference.
  It sounds like the more likely cause of it sounding better is that you've gotten used to dolby headphone.
   
  Does your mixamp look like this? Because if it doesn't then it's doing the 7.1.
   
  Also the DSS has a higher noise floor than any of the mixamps I've tested. This is especially important for the AD700s, which are probably the most prone to picking up hiss out of all the headphones I've tried.
   
  The DSS does have a lovely bass boost on it though.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Probably in a couple hours... finally found my zune dock so I can line out instead of using the headphone output to connect it to my vintage denon amp.


 
  wow grats on getting to hear Zune Line out, I had something that did it for a car radion, but you could auxillary out of the Dock and well get Line out sound.
   
  Nice Zune HD and he 400 tell us


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> wow grats on getting to hear Zune Line out, I had something that did it for a car radion, but you could auxillary out of the Dock and well get Line out sound.
> 
> Nice Zune HD and he 400 tell us


 
   
  Heh, I use one of those car adapters too and I also have one spare just in case that one dies. Love my Zunes, I don't see myself actively using any other media players or my phone to play music.
   
  Here's one pic of the HE400 before I pack it up and ship it out to the very lucky buyer.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Here's one pic of the HE400 before I pack it up and ship it out to the very lucky buyer.


 
   
  Can you ship the parts express headphones back to MLE?  I would just throw it a tiny bubble envelope or something...


----------



## Impulse

That humble headband sure is getting a lot of mileage, literally...


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Can you ship the parts express headphones back to MLE?  I would just throw it a tiny bubble envelope or something...


 
   
  Yeah, just waiting for MLE to wake up since I forgot his addy. I have a PO that closes at 8pm so I have some time still.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.razordogaudio.com/products/beyerdynamic-mmx-300-premium-gaming-headset-newest-model


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.razordogaudio.com/products/beyerdynamic-mmx-300-premium-gaming-headset-newest-model


 
  Oh nice
   
  Also... ironically I just paid MORE for a ATH w1000x [with NEW L3000 pads] then I could have for a new He 400... OH WELL I want a closed woodie!
   
  My buyer told me he also prefered [highly] the w1000x over the Mad dog, so I should be happy. and it's only the pads that have costed me. Since I returned le mad dog.... WHY DID I GET U MAD DOG q.q [they don't suck but they need a REALLY great solid state amp, which I ofc don't use ss amps ]


----------



## Don Tonberry

I don't know if you guys can help but I'm trying to figure out a good setup for gaming and music.  I was thinking of either getting the Steelseries Audio Mixer, cheap clip on microphone, and CAL or just get the Monoprice 7.1 headset.  I'm mainly going to be using the headphones for music so I figured the CAL would be the better option but I'm not sure how that setup is for gaming.  I know the Monoprice is pretty decent for gaming but I have no idea how it is for music. I assume it's just ok. If anyone has experience with any of these, I'd like to hear what you have to say because I can't find enough info on the equipment


----------



## cheuh

Just got the Q701's in. Comfort is pretty good. The bumps on the headband don't bother me at all... I can wear these for hours. But the cable... does anyone else think the bright lime green color is a little weird looking?
   
  From my first few minutes of gaming with them, I can tell you they are amazing for competitive gaming. The soundstage and imaging is excellent. I can easily pin point where enemies are coming from in FPS games.
   
  For music they are pretty good as well. To me, they are very clear and balanced sounding. Mids and treble are superb. Airy sounding with good instrument separation. Bass is neutral... it is there, but it's not emphasized. It's in line with the mids and highs. If you are coming from a closed back headphone with a lot of bass, these will definitely feel like they lack bass impact and slam.
   
  Overall I like these. Not sure if I want to keep them yet. I'm curious to see what the other 'Big 3' mid-fi headphones sound like...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Just got the Q701's in. Comfort is pretty good. The bumps on the headband don't bother me at all... I can wear these for hours. But the cable... *does anyone else think the bright lime green color is a little weird looking?*


 
   
   
  Unless you were able to shop for them and buy them with your eyes closed, you knew they were going to come with a green cable.


----------



## cheuh

Haha yeah I know. I just didn't realize they were that bright... I can understand a green headphone with green cables but I've never seen a white headphone with a bright lime green attached to it, but whatever floats your boat I guess lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It makes it easybto find when you detach it.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Overall I like these. Not sure if I want to keep them yet. I'm curious to see what the other 'Big 3' mid-fi headphones sound like...


 
  What r the big 3?
   
  Dt 880
  Akg q701
  He-400? maybe???
   
  I also hear the ath w1000x is very colored...  my first colored can woot!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Big 3 back in the day:

DT880
K70x
HD650

Funny, as all 3 still stand toe to toe with the best mid-fi cans of today.




mshenay said:


> What r the big 3?
> I also hear the ath w1000x is very colored...  my first colored can woot!




Didn't you own the DT990 and XB700? Those two are as colored as they get. Colored = emphasized ranges. In most cases, bass.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Big 3 back in the day:
> 
> DT880
> K70x
> ...


 
  haha, I KNOW right
   
  But those r them Techno cans ;o
   
  But i'll b happy to enjoy a closed mid colored can! The mad dog with tubes was WAY to thick in the mids, and the bass was worse than the dt 880s e.e
   
  but I guess that's the funny part, dt 880 on THICK tubes is mah fav, 
   
  Still WHY rn't they here yet lol


----------



## zx6guy

The case is the same but the knobs don't have a bevel and the graphics for the volume are different.  Also, mine has a door on the toslink.  According to the guide on page 1 the 7.1 version doesn't have this.  Strangely, the first few pages of a google search on the model number are pretty unhelpful.    
  
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think the consensus is that it's mainly marketing and that there's barely any audible difference.
> It sounds like the more likely cause of it sounding better is that you've gotten used to dolby headphone.
> 
> Does your mixamp look like this? Because if it doesn't then it's doing the 7.1.
> ...


----------



## Ljanmi

This just showed up http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/scythe_kama_bay_amp_pro_5_25_inch_amplifier.html


----------



## Impulse

cheuh said:


> Just got the Q701's in. Comfort is pretty good. The bumps on the headband don't bother me at all... I can wear these for hours. But the cable... does anyone else think the bright lime green color is a little weird looking?




I'd love to have a solid yet easily detachable single-sided cable like that on my DT 880, it could be pink for all I care...  I rather dig the lime green cable tho (not so much the white Q's but I think it works).

I'll take a fixed single entry over a removable dual entry any day tho, I know the latter's technically better but I'm not the sort that's ever gonna buy upgrade cables or step up to a balanced setup so I could care less.

Single sided's just a lot easier to keep out of the way IMO, specially sitting at a desk... It's a little thing but it plays as much of a role in comfort/ergonomics as anything.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> The case is the same but the knobs don't have a bevel and the graphics for the volume are different.  Also, mine has a door on the toslink.  According to the guide on page 1 the 7.1 version doesn't have this.  Strangely, the first few pages of a google search on the model number are pretty unhelpful.


 
   
  If it doesn't look EXACTLY like the one in the picture, it's the 7.1 version.
   
  In other words, if it looks like THIS, it's the 7.1 version.


----------



## calpis

It might be the earlier version of the Pro since it still has the door on the optical port. I think I remember reading they removed the door on later revsions since they always just broke off anyways. I'm probably wrong though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So a local Head-fier came over my house, and bought the Annie on the spot. He agreed that they sounded very close to the LCD2.

They are gone. 

I know it's going to a good home, so I'm okay with that.

They may be gone, but they'll never be forgotten, and they will be my #1 recommendation for all rounder purposes on this thread and then some.

Just because I sold them, doesn't mean I don't love them. They are overall my favorite all rounder outside of the D7000, and my 3rd fave for music/movie use.


----------



## roguegeek

MLE, have you tried the Shure SRH940 for competitive gaming (or any other use) yet? If so, initial thoughts?
   
  I picked these up very cheap this week to fulfill a need I had with their signature and am finding them to be quite analytical and a detail monster. Wonder how that would translate to positional audio with competitive gaming. Obviously, there's going to be some major drawbacks with the closed back and smaller soundstage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I've heard some things about the 940, but even if they were good, I'm not really interested in owning a closed pair of headphones. If I did, they'd have to be the Denon D7000 or Fostex TH-600/900, or realistically, maybe the Mad Dogs. Zero need for closed ATM.

Closed headphones are just so inferior to open headphones in general, IMHO, so they're only a last resort for me.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I've heard some things about the 940, but even if they were good, I'm not really interested in owning a closed pair of headphones. If I did, they'd have to be the Denon D7000 or Fostex TH-600/900, or realistically, maybe the Mad Dogs. Zero need for closed ATM.
> 
> Closed headphones are just so inferior to open headphones in general, IMHO, so they're only a last resort for me.


 
   
  Ok, so no experience with them then. I do agree with the view of open vs close. It's not even a discussion in my eyes. I do believe there is a time and place for closed cans, though.


----------



## Pheendom

Thanks so much for such an informative thread (Mad Lust Envy) and community. Decided to join to get involved with some of the stuff on here!
   
  Just a quick question, I hoped you could help with. Based on your review of the Skullcandy SLYR's, and the fair price I got them for, I decided to plump with them. Sound wise I was very impressed, I've played around with them, and everything strength and weakness you identified I agree with. However, my question relates to the microphone and the general set up for the PC. As you may remember, they come with the standard 3.5mm jack, but also with the USB mixer that they travel through to the PC, which allows the preset EQ's to be chosen and the Mic to be used.
   
  For some reason, regardless of whether I mute the microphone or not (which is very odd), I can hear my own voice and whatever the mic picks up, fed directly back into the phones in my ears. This is really distracting and obviously affects the quality of the sound, because if my phone rings or whatever, I suddenly have that blasted into my ears! I called the Skullcandy customer support and they said they had never heard of this happening and so I should get a refund; however I have noticed a few things about it online. I wondered whether you, or anyone may have had a similar experience? Or maybe someone has them on hand to test this for me? Regardless of what I do, the microphone wont stop feeding themselves back, even with them being muted!! I also made sure the windows settings were not set to have my speakers picking up the mic.
   
  Anyway, thanks for any advice you may give. Here's to my first post!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry, I no longer have the SLYR, and can't test for your issue. Since I don't ever use anything for the PC directly, I can't say if that's a typical issue or not. 

Not sure I understand. This only happens on your PC with the Mixer in the mix? I'm bad with PC stuff, sadly.


----------



## Pheendom

Hi. Thanks for your reply.
   
  Yes, it only happens when its plugged directly into the mixer. Because (I think) the 3.5mm jack is an inline one (with the mic line in it), I dont have this problem when I plug it directly into the system's sound card. But when I plug it through the mixer, regardless of mute settings or anything, what the MIC picks up, the SPEAKERS play. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I appreciate what your saying regarding PCs, I had just wondered whether you had experienced the same thing when trying it out on your console. Did you use the included mixer?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tested it out for the review with the PS3. I didnt have any weird issues though.


----------



## Pheendom

Really strange. Okay well maybe I should just exchange them for another pair and see if have the same issues.
  Can you remember if you used the included mixer, or if you used your own? Or did you plug in the 3.5mm straight into the PS3?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did use the included Mixer. It worked fine. I have a feeling it might be something in your PC settings that may be doing it.


----------



## Pheendom

Thanks for your replies!
   
  I've tried it on a number of pcs now, so I hope a replacement set fixes this. If not, I think I found a design flaw!


----------



## chicolom

My Q701 pads came in today! 
   
  Plump.  Juicy.  Delicious. 
   
  *Snniiiiffff*  Mmm....with that brand-new-velour smell.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So a local Head-fier came over my house, and bought the Annie on the spot. He agreed that they sounded very close to the LCD2.
> 
> They are gone.
> 
> ...


 
   
  No AKG audition for me, I guess...but that makes two happy people down in Florida!
   
  Ultimately, what I'm finding so far is that I already have my favorite headphones for everything, but it's difficult for me to figure out where I stand in the great scheme of things when people are going on about K702 65th this and HD650 that when I've never even auditioned either of them, and don't feel like spending money up-front just to find out.


----------



## Makiah S

interesting question, my dt 880s sound better with the volume CRANKED on Low gain, then they do on half'd volume High gain  [with my hybrid tube]
   
  any one have any idea why


----------



## chicolom

So I used the Q701 pads again tonight specifically for gaming.  I haven't heard them for about two weeks, and I've been using the Anniversary during that time.
   
  The first two things I noticed were:
   
   
*1)  *I was surprised to hear that the Q701s really weren't too much of an improvement in terms of soundstage and positioning.  The actual soundstage itself is really essentially the same as on the anniversary pads - it really just comes down to the weight of the sounds.  I said all this in my review, and I stand by it.  I was expecting the imaging and positioning to sharpen up more with the Q701s, but it didn't really.  It was basically the same level of diffuseness as on the anniversaries.  The difference was just that the sounds were lighter and sharper.  There's something about lighter airier sounds that gives the effect of making sounds sound farther away then weightier sounds.  But like I said, once you adjust for that "effect", the sounds are still basically coming from the same location/distance in the soundstage.  So the Q701s competitive advantage mainly just comes down to the lighter overall balance (think AD700) which emphasizes and makes things a bit clearer.  The anniversaries are definitely more immersive sounding, and IMO better choice for single player gaming.  Not necessarily because of the bass, but because of the overall body/weight of all the frequencies.  It just gives objects and characters more mass in game, and they feel more 3D and physically "there" (hmm...would that be "imaging?" still not sure what exactly "imaging" means - positioning?, or how sounds are outlined in the space?). This is especially true if your not using a bass boost with the Q701s (I always keep it ON during single player gaming), which leads me to my next point...
   
   
*2)*... I was a little surprised how much more bass the Anniversaries had.  I remembered the differences being more minor last time I tested (which was mainly with music).  I did some tests with the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost, and I found that the Q701 with the bass boost ON actually has fairly similar bass levels to the Anniversaries with bass boost OFF.  The Q701 just has a little more initial impact.  I think the bass also seems to decay quicker on Q701 though, and it doesn't have much support body-wise from the other frequencies compared to the anniversary.  Like the bass is trying to fight to give all the body but the mids and treble aren't helping out much.  The annivesary's entire spectrum gets a volumizing body-boost over the Q701, and since you can't boost the body of the mids and treble the Q701 is at a disadvantage there.  I was expecting Q701 + Bass Boost to fall somewhere in-between the anniversary without bass boost, and the anniversary _with _bass boost, but it's closer to the former.   Once you turn the Bass boost ON with the anniversaries, they're on another level though.  They leave the Q701s behind in terms of body and impact.  Sometimes it's almost too much bass (or mid-bass) - like your standing near a generator and it's humming louder overtop of the other sounds.  Sometimes it can sound muddy-ish depending on what the game is doing.  I blame some of this on the mixamps muddy bass boost though, which is why....
   
  ...I just re-snagged a* DSS v1* off eBay 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
   
  I miss it's bass boost - it really has a superior bass boost over the Mixamp 5.8.  It's tighter/cleaner, affects less of the mid-bass and more of the sub-bass, and punches significantly harder than the mixamp if you max out the dial.  The mixamps bass is muddier and cuts off slowy affecting more lower mid frequencies.  Not to mention, it clips more.  The added control over the bass is worth it for the $30 shipped IMO.  The DSS has a slightly higher noise floor, but that's pretty much a non-issue with the AKG K70x - they don't really care.
   
   
  BTW, it sounds like I'm ragging on the Q701, but I don't mean to.  I love them and think they're great.  I'm just trying to clarify some of the differences I hear between the two pads during gaming/single-player gaming in relation to soundstage and bass - only this time I'm specifically coming off of having used the anniversaries for two weeks and normalizing _their _sound, without being able to hear the Q701s.  The first time I compared, it was coming from using the Q701s as the default and the anniversaries as the outsider, and I said things like they're "slightly too dark," "Forward sounding", "I prefer the air on the Q701," "I like the floating sounds on the Q701", etc.  So it's all sort of relative to whatever you're used to at that moment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So basically..... almost *everything *I've ever told you. 

And yes, to me it was more about the weight of the sound as a whole as opposed to just being more fun because the bass was bigger. The Annie has this natural warmth, that I've yet to hear from any other headphone. Both the HD650 and leather LCD2 are warmer than the Annie, and therefore not AS natural. The vegan LCD2 comes close, and is quite neutral sounding, but the super high end is a hair sharper than the Annies, so in that aspect (along with air and sense of space), I really preferred the Annie.

This is why I tell people to spend like a WEEK with a headphone, and NOT compare it to any other within that week, then go back and see how the old ones sound like. It does take time to acclimate yourself to a new headphone. I had previously contacted Justin to tell him I would rather get a pair of leather LCD2s (which he was going to send me), until YESTERDAY. All the sudden, all my complaints went away, and I was left with a really amazing sound. The treble no longer felt a bit too sharp, but rather just nice and crisp. Things take time, and being so used to the Annie's pretty smooth treble, that's why I was a bit iffy with the vegan LCD2. Trust me, the treble is basically neutral now. The Annie's treble is 'smooth, south of neutral' in comparison. The sudden appreciation made me contact him and tell him that I would prefer to keep the Vegan LCD2 now.

And yes, I did NOT like the Mixamp 5.8's bass boost. That thing clipped more than I benefited from the actual boost. I mean, I like that it was very subtle, but the clipping was too problematic. When it worked, it was nice, but ultimately, I left it off the overwhelming majority of the time.


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So a local Head-fier came over my house, and bought the Annie on the spot. He agreed that they sounded very close to the LCD2.
> 
> They are gone.
> 
> ...


 
  So which one would be your first 2 for music/movie use.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So basically..... almost *everything *I've ever told you.


 
  xD nice
   
  if I didn't already enjoy my byers I might have snatched these up. Good to hear the new anniversie has more w8


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> So I used the Q701 pads again tonight specifically for gaming.  I haven't heard them for about two weeks, and I've been using the Anniversary during that time.
> 
> The first two things I noticed were:
> 
> ...


 
  Do you still stand for the pads as a difference between Q701 and Anniversaries?


----------



## Makiah S

Also I'm getting my first serious Solid State! 
   
  Any one know how to roll opamps <3


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





don tonberry said:


> I don't know if you guys can help but I'm trying to figure out a good setup for gaming and music.  I was thinking of either getting the Steelseries Audio Mixer (or maybe DSS?), cheap clip on microphone, and CAL or just get the Monoprice 7.1 headset.  I'm mainly going to be using the headphones for music so I figured the CAL would be the better option but I'm not sure how that setup is for gaming.  I know the Monoprice is pretty decent for gaming but I have no idea how it is for music. I assume it's just ok. If anyone has experience with any of these, I'd like to hear what you have to say because I can't find enough info on the equipment


 

 Can anybody help me? I'm fairly new to gaming setups


----------



## Naingolann

Chicolom, glad to see you re-snagged a DSS v1. I was wondering if you also get slight sound distortions if you maximize the bass booster.


----------



## Ljanmi

This is new  



  http://www.whathifi.com/news/sony-launches-mdr-xb910-extra-bass-headphones


----------



## emerson1

I know this has probably been asked and this is a common battle of products, but searching for both products and the word 'ears' in this thread I couldn't find a definite answer.
   
  I have *large* ears and my decision between the CAL or M50 is coming down based purely on which one might be more comfortable for those with large ears. I have both in my Amazon cart right now and am just waiting to click buy!


----------



## kayan

So, I am the new owner of an AKG 702 65th Anniversary, thanks so much MLE  

Anyway, wanting to amp it, what should I use? On a PC with a dedicated soundcard. Will not use it portable for now....so linky please? 100ish limit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hope you enjoy them at least half as much as I did. That would still be a lot, lol.

Like I told you, that particular soundcard MIGHT have an internal amp with similar specs to the E9K (not sure), so there's no need for an extra amp. If you want a dedicated amp that may push it just a little more, try the Schiit Magni.

http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13

Post a link to your soundcard? Nameless might know.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> MLE, have you tried the Shure SRH940 for competitive gaming (or any other use) yet? If so, initial thoughts?
> 
> I picked these up very cheap this week to fulfill a need I had with their signature and am finding them to be quite analytical and a detail monster. Wonder how that would translate to positional audio with competitive gaming. Obviously, there's going to be some major drawbacks with the closed back and smaller soundstage.


 
   
  Anyone else have thoughts on these in terms of competitive gaming?


----------



## Impulse

don tonberry said:


> Can anybody help me? I'm fairly new to gaming setups




CAL's are probably the better value but I haven't heard the Monoprice headset and I don't expect too many people will have, so you're probably not gonna get a lot of input regarding that comparison. Someone in this thread bought it tho, could use the search function to figure it out and PM them.

The CALs and a clip on (or even a more expensive Modmic) will stomp all over most headsets IMO, tho you could take a look at MLE's SLYR review on the first page if you really really want a headset.


----------



## trubul

MLE, nice guide  Have you tried Sennheiser HD380 in the past?
  Greets.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





impulse said:


> CAL's are probably the better value but I haven't heard the Monoprice headset and I don't expect too many people will have, so you're probably not gonna get a lot of input regarding that comparison. Someone in this thread bought it tho, could use the search function to figure it out and PM them.
> 
> The CALs and a clip on (or even a more expensive Modmic) will stomp all over most headsets IMO, tho you could take a look at MLE's SLYR review on the first page if you really really want a headset.


 

 Thanks for the input.  What would be the best and most cost effective sound decoder/mixer? The Astro Mixamp is quite expensive but that's the only thing I have had experience with.  Is there something that is like it but much cheaper or should I just use an audio mixer? The SLYR seems like a good headset that I can also use as my daily headphones but I assume it'd be better to go with the CALs if I'm using them more for music right? Also what's a decent clip on mic for use with an Xbox?


----------



## kayan

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> No AKG audition for me, I guess...but that makes two happy people down in Florida!
> 
> Ultimately, what I'm finding so far is that I already have my favorite headphones for everything, but it's difficult for me to figure out where I stand in the great scheme of things when people are going on about K702 65th this and HD650 that when I've never even auditioned either of them, and don't feel like spending money up-front just to find out.


 
   
  Sorry Nameless. I do apologize that you don't get an audition, however....these are awesome! MLE was so great inviting me over and letting me listen to them before I bought 'em. He walked me through a ton of setup stuff (that I didn't even know about) and was all around very nice and helpful, even after I purchased them, he answered a couple questions.
   
  Thank you so much MLE.
   
  This is my first pair of hi-ish-end headphones, and I can't believe it's taken me years of putting up with a crappy gaming headset. Music will never be the same.
   
  Next step: AMP.


----------



## oobble

I need help guys. I am looking for something to replace my x41s.  I currently have the x41 transmitter that came with it, so I do not need an Astro MixAmp. I was looking at the PC 360s or the HD 598s, but I was wondering how the chat would work on the PC 360s with my Xbox 360? Thanks for your time.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





oobble said:


> I need help guys. I am looking for something to replace my x41s.  I currently have the x41 transmitter that came with it, so I do not need an Astro MixAmp. I was looking at the PC 360s or the HD 598s, but I was wondering how the chat would work on the PC 360s with my Xbox 360? Thanks for your time.


 
   
  Simple answer: Get a mixamp.
   
  Long answer: The X41 mixes the chat audio in the headset itself. Once you take the headset out of the equation, you lose the ability to simply mix in chat audio. Let's say you want to hook up a PC360 to the X41 base station, you plug the headphone pug into the X41 then you run the Mic plug into your controller with various adapters/extensions. You then need to set your preferences in your xbox settings to play chat audio over the speakers. Then to adjust the volume mix of game and chat audio, you have to adjust the master game volume of the game in its audio options menu. If your game can't adjust master game audio then there are 2 sliders in the voice chat preferences in the xbox settings. 1 slider dictates the master chat audio that you hear, the other slider adjusts the master system audio so that once someone starts to talk, the game audio will become lower. Fiddle with the settings till you find something that's playable and enjoy the game. OR sell of the X41 and get a mixamp.


----------



## Impulse

When it comes to that, I don't envy console gamers at all...


----------



## Pheendom

Quote: 





don tonberry said:


> Thanks for the input.  What would be the best and most cost effective sound decoder/mixer? The Astro Mixamp is quite expensive but that's the only thing I have had experience with.  Is there something that is like it but much cheaper or should I just use an audio mixer? The SLYR seems like a good headset that I can also use as my daily headphones but I assume it'd be better to go with the CALs if I'm using them more for music right? Also what's a decent clip on mic for use with an Xbox?


 
   


 Hi Don
  With regard to the SLYR's I now have a fair bit of experience in using them for PC gaming and if the problems I have had with them are repeated on console gaming then I would discourage using them for one simple reason. The sound is brilliant, very good for immersion; however, when using the USB connector for the inline mixer, the audio picked up from the mic is fed automatically straight back into the speakers. Now to be fair, I'm not certain this will happen on an Xbox, but other than that, the inline mixer's dial is fairly confusing. It does not seem to understand what volume is and what voice/game balance is. I'll be writing a full review on the site at some point.
   
  I did manage to get a replacement for this headset, and went for another SLYR to double check it was not a faulty one I had, and the problem still remained! The CAL's are a good alternative. Maybe someone here who has used them will be able to know if they are comparable to the sound on the SLYRs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, so I got the Parts Express headband for the Koss Clip-ons you sent me. SWEET!

Man...I thought it'd make the clip-ons less comfy, but I couldn't have been more wrong. They improved the comfort on the KSC35, enough to where I no longer wanna wear them without the headband. As for the KSC75, I still prefer the rubberized clips, if only because they stay in place better, but other than that, both the clips and headbands are near perfection for comfort.

I don't get what you mean by the KSC75 not fitting properly. I don't have any issues here. Don't need more sway than they already have. VERY happy.

As far as the sound quality, the headband pretty much proves to me, that the KSC75 IS brighter than the KSC35. No question about it, IMHO.

Thanks so much! I'll be sending my 35s in for repair/replacement, and hopefully now, the cable won't snag off, as it's gonna be on an actual headband.





Ever seen such a beautiful headphone? It's so powerful, that a white aura is seen on the second image! POWER LEVERL OVER 9000. 




Calpis, thanks a lot for the mouse! haven't tested it yet, lol. Just got home.

edit: Battery placement is a little finicky, didn't maintain a connection at first, but it seems ok now. The mouse feels and is working great. Thanks a MIL!

For ****s and giggles I put the parts express headphone on, amped through my Compass 2... ok, that is without a doubt the worst headphone I have ever heard. EVER. Lol. And OMG, it needs a LOT of power. XD


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


 
   
  Now that just looks silly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're just jealous that my headphone is too sexy.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're just jealous that my headphone is too sexy.


 
  Ofc ofc, how can you resist THAT, although the Porta Pro is a little sexy'r I think ;3
   
  MAD LUST wjy you no talk about the T90 yet q.q I didn't even know there was a THREAD FOR IT xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lost interest for it when people said it was bright, and some people said the 880 sounds better. I'm 100% over bright headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





kayan said:


> Sorry Nameless. I do apologize that you don't get an audition, however....these are awesome! MLE was so great inviting me over and letting me listen to them before I bought 'em. He walked me through a ton of setup stuff (that I didn't even know about) and was all around very nice and helpful, even after I purchased them, he answered a couple questions.
> 
> Thank you so much MLE.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's cool. You've found _the one_ in this K702, right?
   
  Going to an actual good, audiophile-worthy headphone...the reviews give you an idea of what to expect, but hearing is believing. In my case, the one-two combo of the AD700 and CMSS-3D Headphone instantly killed my interest in surround speakers (especially cheap computer setups like I had been using), and moving to the SR-Lambda after that was a mind-blowing experience in terms of clarity, natural sound, and "Wait, I'm wearing headphones?" levels of comfort.
   
  At least you've got plenty of options, amp-wise. The direction I took currently requires me to keep a very bulky receiver on my desk just to power a transformer box with the speaker taps, and a proper amp (SRM-1/Mk2 or better) tends to cost $325 minimum, usually more like $400-600. And it goes up, way up, 'til you get to the level of $5,000 Blue Hawaii SEs...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


 
   
  Which stand is that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Peridot-Headphone-Stand-Suitable/dp/B00AE0IEHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363542015&sr=8-1&keywords=brainwavz+stand

Good news. My car needed a new starter. $120 was all I spent.

I don't regret selling the Annie as I have my main in the LCD2, though I might spend a little on the warmer wolfson dac chipset for my Compass 2, which should be around $80 total. I might splurge on some custom copper cables, as the stock cables are pretty hideous and a bit short for my taste. Something less than $200. Nothing too fancy.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Peridot-Headphone-Stand-Suitable/dp/B00AE0IEHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363542015&sr=8-1&keywords=brainwavz+stand
> 
> Good news. My car needed a new starter. $120 was all I spent.
> 
> I don't regret selling the Annie as I have my main in the LCD2, though I might spend a little on the warmer wolfson dac chipset for my Compass 2, which should be around $80 total. I might splurge on some custom copper cables, as the stock cables are pretty hideous and a bit short for my taste. Something less than $200. Nothing too fancy.


 
   
  You can hide your tears for the Annies behind the computer screen, but you can't hide them from jebus.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. Silly. Actually, I think a better alternative for the LCD2 would be the HD650. It's oval earpad design and really pleasant, non-fatiguing sound signature would be worthy for when I'm relaxing, watching my anime, or tired of the LCD2's heft. The Annie, like the LCD2, isn't really all too good with laying down, due to the massive ear cups. When I owned the HD650, I could practically sleep with them.

Still, that's quite an investment, and I think I'd rather put that money down for a laptop or something.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha. Silly. Actually, I think a better alternative for the LCD2 would be the HD650. It's oval earpad design and really pleasant, non-fatiguing sound signature would be worthy for when I'm relaxing, watching my anime, or tired of the LCD2's heft. The Annie, like the LCD2, isn't really all too good with laying down, due to the massive ear cups. When I owned the HD650, I could practically sleep with them.
> 
> Still, that's quite an investment, and I think I'd rather put that money down for a laptop or something.


 
   
  That's an interesting compare. I have been very interested in trying to identify my true home pair of premium open cans and the LCD2 were going to be the first on my short list of ones to demo, but that design and weight were making me very scared of being able to just lean back with them. Looks like the HD 650 will be on that list too now.


----------



## ninjikiran

What
   
  Forum borked on me


----------



## oobble

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Simple answer: Get a mixamp.
> 
> Long answer: The X41 mixes the chat audio in the headset itself. Once you take the headset out of the equation, you lose the ability to simply mix in chat audio. Let's say you want to hook up a PC360 to the X41 base station, you plug the headphone pug into the X41 then you run the Mic plug into your controller with various adapters/extensions. You then need to set your preferences in your xbox settings to play chat audio over the speakers. Then to adjust the volume mix of game and chat audio, you have to adjust the master game volume of the game in its audio options menu. If your game can't adjust master game audio then there are 2 sliders in the voice chat preferences in the xbox settings. 1 slider dictates the master chat audio that you hear, the other slider adjusts the master system audio so that once someone starts to talk, the game audio will become lower. Fiddle with the settings till you find something that's playable and enjoy the game. OR sell of the X41 and get a mixamp.


 
  Thanks for your help. Just one more question. In your opinion, is the MixAmp that much better than the x41 base?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's gonna be pretty much the same. The main thing you're gonna get is voice chat mixing.


----------



## Wonderman

So what is your current headset of choice?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn Denon and their stupid new line. Get back to AH-Ds please


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So basically..... almost *everything *I've ever told you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hey, I pretty much said all that stuff when I wrote the review.  It was mainly during the _very_ _early _impressions that I said the anniversary soundstage was smaller (but even then I still emphasized I wasn't sure about it).
   
  It is good to take your time to get to know each headphone when comparing though, and not rush to conclusions to soon.
   
  Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> Do you still stand for the pads as a difference between Q701 and Anniversaries?


 
   
  Yeah.
   
  Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Chicolom, glad to see you re-snagged a DSS v1. I was wondering if you also get slight sound distortions if you maximize the bass booster.


 
   
  Are you asking if I still get distorition with the DSS?  Overall the DSS distorted less than the mixamp 5.8 when I had them both, and _I think_ this was true even when you maxed out the bass dial on the DSS. 
   
  I googled searched for some older posts where I talked about it, and found a few:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-11-13-lcd2-entry-updated/5580#post_8438985
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-11-13-lcd2-entry-updated/3585#post_8096374
   
   
  Quote: 





emerson1 said:


> I know this has probably been asked and this is a common battle of products, but searching for both products and the word 'ears' in this thread I couldn't find a definite answer.
> 
> I have *large* ears and my decision between the CAL or M50 is coming down based purely on which one might be more comfortable for those with large ears. I have both in my Amazon cart right now and am just waiting to click buy!


 
   
  I think the CALs are known for being more spacious inside the cups then the M50s.  Also as having a bigger soundstage then the M50s (better for gaming), so there's that.


----------



## Makiah S

wonderman said:


> So what is your current headset of choice?






Byer mmx300 seems very cool imo


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, so I got the Parts Express headband for the Koss Clip-ons you sent me. SWEET!
> 
> Man...I thought it'd make the clip-ons less comfy, but I couldn't have been more wrong. They improved the comfort on the KSC35, enough to where I no longer wanna wear them without the headband. As for the KSC75, I still prefer the rubberized clips, if only because they stay in place better, but other than that, both the clips and headbands are near perfection for comfort.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes.  I told you they were great!
   
  I think the comfort is a notch _above _the clips, which is saying something.   You no longer have that minor clip pressure pressing weighing on your ear.
   
  LOL at that pic.  I'm not sure if I'd leave that parts express headband on a full-sized headphone stand.  I'm not sure how much stretching they can take.
   
   
  Here's the post explaining why I said the KSC35s fit better than the KSC75, and also talking about the comfort:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-11-13-lcd2-entry-updated/10830#post_9061076
   
  And here is the post with my impressions on the sound:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-3-11-13-lcd2-entry-updated/10845#post_9061787


----------



## oobble

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's gonna be pretty much the same. The main thing you're gonna get is voice chat mixing.


 
   
  So if I was to keep the x41 base, the only way to adjust chat volume would be to move the slider in the Xbox settings menu?


----------



## chicolom

So, yesterday I was randomly browsing the "Local Meet" thread and happened to spot one that was happening that same day an hour away.
   
  I managed to get down there, and the cast of headphones was....*OMG*
   
T1
HD800, HD700
D7000
TH-900
LCD-3
HE-500, HE-6
SR-303
Mad Dogs
 Pro 900
 Custom One Pros
  ...and more


----------



## Impulse

Wow, quite the selection, did you get enough time with them to post any rough impressions?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Wow, quite the selection, did you get enough time with them to post any rough impressions?


 
   
   
  I got there during the later part of the meet, so I missed a bit of the action and I didn't get too much time to sample, but I have some _very rough _impressions I will post.


----------



## chicolom

RIDICULOUS.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Evshrug, since you've been holding on to the AD700s for so long, maybe you'd find it worthwhile to upgrade to the AD700X or AD900X.
> 
> I've some read good things about the AD900X at least, (I haven't seen as much info on the AD700X), so it could be a worthwhile improvement.



Yeah maybe! There are times where I just go for the lighter weight & easy amping requirements of the AD700, even though they are mostly redundant. I haven't read much info on either of those new ATs, basically I'd probably go for whichever has the greater soundstage  part of the thing, though, that makes my AD700 great is how well the pads and headband have broken in... Yeah I did a fair bit of adjusting manually, but the fine adjustment was due to the headphone settling. If I find a pair of the new ones around, I'd definitely make an effort to hear them, but I'm just not headphone shopping now. I've got a job now (first paycheck... One hour of work for the pay period, boo yaaah!), but I want to get back to "finishing" my computer build with a midrange graphics card + CPU, and long term I mean to put away a bit of every paycheck towards a car. There are so many delicious things out there in the world, but if I buy many smaller goodies it'll take longer for me to "attain" the big purchases that'll really net me a big benefit.



mad lust envy said:


> It makes it easybto find when you detach it.



Ironically, I'm not sure at the moment where I stashed my longer green cable.



mad lust envy said:


> So a local Head-fier came over my house, and bought the Annie on the spot. He agreed that they sounded very close to the LCD2.
> 
> They are gone.
> 
> ...



Well, I think you know me well enough by now to know what I have to say about that. Still feel like I have to say it though. If the Annies made you so happy and overall sounded so close to the LCD2s, why did you end up keeping the headphone that cost 2x the money? In light of what I said above about little and big purchases, I guess great headphones ARE your big purchases/goodies, and the small differences in headphones give you greater benefit than other purchases. I feel like, maybe, I could be living the Head-Fi dream (cuz obviously you're not alone here Mad) if I decided to concentrate on just two or three hobbies, but it seems like *you*'re fulfilled with games, audio, and (in growing fashion) writing, so congrats on maximizing your gain by focusing your choices, and congrats on your sale.



mad lust envy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Peridot-Headphone-Stand-Suitable/dp/B00AE0IEHM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1363542015&sr=8-1&keywords=brainwavz+stand
> 
> Good news. My car needed a new starter. $120 was all I spent.
> 
> I don't regret selling the Annie as I have my main in the LCD2, though I might spend a little on the warmer wolfson dac chipset for my Compass 2, which should be around $80 total. I might splurge on some custom copper cables, as the stock cables are pretty hideous and a bit short for my taste. Something less than $200. Nothing too fancy.



Oh, I thought you were selling the Compass2? Well, I thought I was selling my AD700, my receiver, and one of my headphone amps, but none of that has happened  I know exactly how scary car repair costs can get, it's always a sigh of relief if you don't have to spend that $600 you thought you'd have to allocate. Sometimes what happens to me, if I started to consign myself to "losing" a lot of money and find out I didn't have to pay nearly as much, then I get tempted to spend some of that "emergency" money on a reward for... I dunno, surviving, lol. I think that's how I've bought all my higher-end amps, lol! Does that happen to you?




chicolom said:


> RIDICULOUS.



As someone who compulsively saves all retail boxes for large purchases, I say "ooooOOOOOOOOOH!"


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Byer mmx300 seems very cool imo


 
  they are.....LOVE mine


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, so I got the Parts Express headband for the Koss Clip-ons you sent me. SWEET!
> 
> I don't get what you mean by the KSC75 not fitting properly.* I don't have any issues here*. Don't need more sway than they already have. VERY happy.


 
   
  Oh, OK.  I just tried the KSC75 drivers again, and now AFTER I've modded the headband they work pretty good and have room for rotation.
   
  Before, on the stock un-modded parts express headband, they just hit the plastic and didn't rotate at all.


----------



## Simcon

evshrug said:


> As someone who compulsively saves all retail boxes for large purchases, I say "ooooOOOOOOOOOH!"




Saving a nice box is part of the experience, always love when the company have spent some time making me a good looking box . I however fear that in the future I might have to get a larger storage area or be a bit more picky when it comes to which boxes to save .


----------



## aBc.CaN

Hey Pheendom,
   
  I suspect you have the enabled "Listen to device" in the microphone settings if you can hear your mic through speakers.
   
  Quote: 





pheendom said:


> Thanks so much for such an informative thread (Mad Lust Envy) and community. Decided to join to get involved with some of the stuff on here!
> 
> Just a quick question, I hoped you could help with. Based on your review of the Skullcandy SLYR's, and the fair price I got them for, I decided to plump with them. Sound wise I was very impressed, I've played around with them, and everything strength and weakness you identified I agree with. However, my question relates to the microphone and the general set up for the PC. As you may remember, they come with the standard 3.5mm jack, but also with the USB mixer that they travel through to the PC, which allows the preset EQ's to be chosen and the Mic to be used.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never planned on selling the Compass 2. O_O

I sold the SA-31 to fund for the Compass 2. That's maybe where you got confused.

The Compass 2 has much pretty much set on the amp/dac front. It has all I want. The only thing that irks me about it (though it's probably my computer's fault), is that if I'm listening to the line in, it get hum if I have something connected to the USB port. I'm gonna try and move the USB from the back of my desktop to the USB hub and see if it goes away. It's a minor gripe though, as it's silent when I listen to anything else, including the USB itself.

I'm done with amp/dacs now, though I might want whatever Fiio has that will be a portable amp/dac with the E12's power, which I'm sure will be something they make in the near future. Could use something like this when I get a laptop.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I think FiiO is going to call it the E19 Everest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet, thanks.

Okay, so I went ahead and bought a Like New HD650 for $355 with full warranty. Can't say that's a bad deal. This will be my relaxing headphone. I really liked the HD650 for laying down purposes and anime watching. I actually think once I get them, I'm more likely to sell my LCD2 for ANY reason, and stick to the HD650. It's not perfect, but the things it does well are exactly what I look for. Thick warmth, rich mids, lay down comfort, light. Got them with my Amazon store card, so I still have extra physical cash from selling the Annies for whatever reason.

Oh in case anyone is wondering on my PERSONAL tier list.... not just for gaming, but music and general use.

1. D7000
2. LCD2 vegan (more on the neutral side but still warm, airy, and clearer, but not as warm as the leather, but similar bass)
3. LCD2 leather (warmer, meatier, but more congested and closed sounding than the vegan)
4. K702 65th Anniversary (honestly, the best all rounder I've ever heard, even more so than the higher tier ones)
5. HE400
6. HD650
7. DT990
8. HE-4


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, still unresolved anger at those hard to get D7000s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I need a "mobile" (aka not moving my HD 800 and it's amp issues around) headphone for Mixamp that feeds off well enough from "just" an E12. The best possible, not in TH-900 price regions though. Total waste. 
   
  The sell the D7000 for around 1200 Dollars used right now if they pop up. I thought those Annies but too pricey imo for "just" being a K701-derivate. 
   
  Any other input? TH-600?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maaan, the Annies are worth it.


----------



## Pheendom

Quote: 





abc.can said:


> Hey Pheendom,
> 
> I suspect you have the enabled "Listen to device" in the microphone settings if you can hear your mic through speakers.


 

 Hi there! Cheers for the message.
  Actually, I've tried tweaking around with all the possible settings, including that one, and the audio is still being directed into the speakers, on both headsets AND on multiple computers I've tried plugging them into. I'm going to give Skullcandy a chance to respond to my Customer services request and then I'll write a review on the site. Also like I said, even with the microphone mute ON, the sound, although not read by the computer and broadcast or recorded; is actually still routed through the cans. Its like the in-line mixer is designed to shoot the audio from the mic, straight back up the line to the speakers. Very strange.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: When I say both headsets, I mean the SLYR both times. (I just managed to get hold of two to test this out)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also just placed an order for the Sportapro...



That housing is identical to the KSC35...



(on the left)


 so I'm almost 100% sure it's the same driver and can be unclipped from the SportaPro headband. $20 for the SportaPro on Amazon, or $45 for the KSC35 on Koss.com. Of course, I'll take a risk and get the SportaPro. It was gonna cost me $12-13 to ship/repair my KSC35 anyways.

I'll keep you guys updated on whether it's the same drivers.

The only thing is that if you guys get the SportaPro, you won't have the plastic clips. You CAN get the Parts Express though, which is more comfy. The Sportapro headband might be a bit muffled sounding, probably due to the headband covering a bit off the drivers compared to the clips/parts express headband.

BTW, since the parts express headband is metal, it can be bent. I basically bent it in all the way (made a heart). This will make the drivers press against your ears better, for a fuller sound. I no longer need the clips. The KSC35 sounds absolutely stellar. The only problem is that placement is more finicky, whereas the KSC35 clips are optimal in placement 100% of the time.

I wonder how the 75 and 35 will sound with the Sportapro headband, lol.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/headphones-earphones-portable-media-devices-314/introduction-world-headphones-1272241.html

There are pics of the headband swaps between the sportapro and ksc75.


----------



## ScottishRunt

I've been a long time lurker, both of this thread and Head-Fi in general, but I've finally managed to scrape funds together to start getting some aural satisfaction. Hence why I'm signed up, here, and asking for some advice and airing the indecisions that have been swirling around my head for _months_.
   
  I've recently bought a Cambridge Audio amplifier (the 651A), along with a pair of Mezzo 2s. However, I've been headset-less since selling my pair of Tritton AX Pros because I just couldn't get on with them. I cringe just thinking about how wrong they felt to me -- I'm going off on a tangent though. I skipped my way through a few pages, searched through for any morsels on the K702s, HD650s and such, but it's far too time consuming for me to wade through all 800+ pages, as much as I'd like to do so. 
   
  My only experience with headphones (I'll discount the SE535s, for being IEMs), thus far, have been my old pair of Sony MDR-V700s (having sensitive ears, their supra-aural nature meant I was crying after half hour's use) and the pair of Grado SR325is that I sat and demoed on the weekend (although they sounded nice, they are also supra-aural and the material of the ear pads was far too scratchy). I'd originally thought I'd be more a fan of warmer signatures, however I feel like I'm leaning more towards a clearer, balanced tone (but not a treble sound that is overly harsh) -- I like being able to dissect what I listen to; blame countless listening papers during my Sixth Form days. Most importantly, I don't want to compromise the time I can listen to audio because of a fatiguing signature and/or crippling discomfort.
   
  I don't have quite enough money to warrant several sets of cans for different uses, as much as I'd like to, and so I've given a good look at the 702s and HD650s. I'm leaning towards the AKGs. At the moment I game on both PC and PS3 (FPSs as well as RPGs and such), listen to a variety of genres (just to be a pain), and I've managed to cobbled together a shopping list draught, just to discuss and see if I can do better for my money and needs.  
   

 AKG K702 | £255 from Thomann (I'm really drawn to these guys because their returns policy is transparent and I know I won't be losing money by returning anything.)
 Antlion ModMic 2.0 | £27 from AntLion (Once I've checked the price against the exchange rate and added on VAT.)
 Schiit Magni | £119 from Electro Mod
 Astro Mixamp Pro | £109 from Limexb360
   
  Bringing me to a grand total of £510, without me checking shipping costs, at which point I'm cringing, after spending around £900 over the weekend. I'm looking at other mics and amps and such, just to make the price point a little more palatable. Any price savings would be a Godsend, although I know the better answer may be to simply hoard my pennies for a little longer.
   
  Thanks, in advance, for any help!
   
  Pip


----------



## Naingolann

Either do that or just get something cheaper, but that would still grant you a much better sound experience than your old headset. I'm thinking about the CAL or Senn. HD 5xx models, which the mixamp alone would be able to drive with no worries. 

Even better, there's the PC360, which comes with the mic, so that you wouldn't even need to spend more money on the antilion.

Moreover, you say you're not a fan of warmer signatures...well, I've just heard great things about the Superlux HD668, which also looks like an AKG/ATH. Give a look at that one!


----------



## Naked Snake

Haven't posted here in a while..but looks like Turtle Beach finally has something to go up against the Mixamp, not sold as a standalone yet though.
   
  http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/turtle-beach-ear-force-xp-seven-headset-review/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They already had the DSS though this is definitely more a direct competitor... lol. This is definitely more on the customizable side. I actually prefer simplicity over all that extra stuff, personally. Give me Dolby Headphone, a flat EQ, and plenty of power. I'll let the headphones do everything else.

The ACU looks a bit... difficult....


----------



## Naked Snake

Yea, this is a much more direct competitor to the Mixamp than the DSS. I'm not a fan of anything overly complex either, but it's an option for those that could use the customization. My needs as far as gaming are pretty simple, and I like what the Mixamp provides, but I'm interested to see if there's something this unit can do for me better than the Mixamp (I'm perfectly happy with the Mixamp atm tho)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sadly, they're all copying off one another instead of giving us something new. Like hdmi input for lossless audio decoding or something.


----------



## Makiah S

MM starting to like the w1000x after bending the living crap out of the head band. Also if the L3000 pads add more mids that wouldn't hurt as they are.... interesting. I wished they had a Byer Style head band honestly, Nice think METAL with pads that roate forwards back ward as well as left to right, the wing system is assine. Terrible idea and these cans need to be "warped" to fit you head. I've bent the tar out of the metal head band a good bit alrady
   
  still an improvement over the mad dogs [although at freaking $700 retail they dmn well better be] lukcy me on getting them at a cheap price


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> Haven't posted here in a while..but looks like Turtle Beach finally has something to go up against the Mixamp, not sold as a standalone yet though.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/turtle-beach-ear-force-xp-seven-headset-review/


 
   
  Looks hideous.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey ScottishRump (Pip),
Well, if you were looking for K701 and HD650 morsels, there are plenty in this thread! The first post will be most helpful — it's the guide. Each headphone review has a click to expand section for Mad's full review. If you want more, there has been more morsels of discussion on both if you go backwards from now rather than start at the oldest posts (excluding the guide post, which is very frequently updated).

The short version is, if you want an all-a'rounder headphone that is circumaural with great comfort, the AKG 701 65th Anniversary (fondly called the Annies) get a solid recommendation. It is more expensive than the K702 you mentioned, but this limited edition model has a flat headband offering more comfort for some, and a pleasing balanced tone that is a bare nudge warmer than the typical K702 (but not the aggressive "warmth" you experienced as part of the Grado house sound). Personally, I chose an AKG Q701 at half the cost, Chicolom posted a link to his more in-depth comparison one or two pages back, but the short version is the Q701 is closer to the Annies than another headphone brand, and still sounds great enough to have some great toe-curling audio-nirvana moments.

The HD650 also gets good marks, but it just presents things differently, more laid-back and FWIR stands out for "smooth mids." Also costs more. The HD598 and HD558 are cheaper, but the presentation is different... I suggest you read the first-page guide for impressions on those. The Sennheiser PC360 is basically an HD558 with a built-in mic – up to you if the price difference is worth it over buying a $3 clip-on lapel mic (dunno the price in Euro, but should also be cheap), and I haven't read any impressions on Sennheiser's new gaming headphone lineup but the PC360 comparison ought to orient you to the level of quality you can expect. Another "balanced" signature headphone worth looking into is the BeyerDynamic DT880: very even and "transparent" headphone, maybe less soundstage "width" than the AKG flagships but they are remarked for their comfort and near-monitoring accuracy.

The purchase list you laid out is a very good looking one IMO. I haven't read enough about (or auditioned) the Superlux headphones that look like AKG clones to know what they sound like, but for their asking price I expect you'd be giving up some refinement compared to the real AKG flagships... but those ought to still easily please you compared to the Tritton Ax Pros. Honestly, almost any of the headphones in Mad's guide are better than the Tritton's, read Mad's impression in the guide on those AX Pros. The other thing about your list... You _can_ drive the AKGs loud enough from the Mixamp alone, with the chat dial turned all the way to "game." The K702 (or Q701, or Annies) ought to sound pretty nice without an extra amp, HOWEVER (and this happened to me) over time you'll come to feel like something is being held back, and when you add an amp with lots of current supply and low distortion, the headphones will really show their potential by making each note/sound more distinct and adding more "air" and depth to the soundstage.

Personally, I bought Creative's Recon3D USB sound processor instead of the Mixamp, for half the cost, and I like that it works pretty well with both PC and console (Xbox here, but I may soon get a roommate with a PS3), without hearing the Mixamp personally I theorize the Recon3D USB has lower distortion, background noise, but also lower current, but it worked really nice for me once I added a tube hybrid amp made by Head-Fi'er Zigis. The Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone to process virtual surround (so does Tritton's AX 720 and Turtle Beach's DSS), but the Recon3D USB uses THX TruStudio Pro; THX works well for me, but I suspect it affects ears differently, I have more "morsels" talking about this in the thread linked in my signature. Head-Fi'er Nameless is selling his Recon3D USB for $70 USD, if you don't mind arranging shipping with him. I mentioned Turtle Beach's DSS earlier, that's probably the cheapest (2nd hand) recommended surround processing option for consoles, though we have a guy who likes his DSS2 as well. Last thing on surround processing/amping front, sometimes it's more versatile and forward thinking to find a home theater receiver with a headphone surround mode, for example Mad found a used Marantz receiver with Dolby Headphone that has a superior amp to the Mixamp, more processing options, speaker and input options, all in one convenient package (though large physically). Mad probably could've been "done" with just his Annies and the receiver, but he had to buy his Audio-GD Compass2 Amp/DAC and he is compelled to expand his guide every month... he probably wouldn't have tried the Annies and receiver if he wasn't that way to begin with, Love Ya Mad!

Hope you found this post helpful, and don't mind it being a bit longer than your own post (Mine's longer than yours is, Nyah  ). From personal experience I recommend the AKG flagships and a surround processor, and if you want to spread out your cost you could survive waiting a bit to buy a dedicated amp, but eventually you'll want said amp


----------



## Makiah S

http://www.head-fi.org/t/656131/ath-w1000x-review#post_9273591
   
  I'm loving my ath w1000x. If u want a closed can find em used. paid 300 for mine and they are magical! I even use em with my Thicker Tube :O although I'm not sure if I want to stick with the thicker tube as the Thinner tube really makes these sound more airy and balanced 
   
  either way a great can  and I even have stock pads ;O


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I came across this post earlier talking about softies fabric earpad wraps for headphones, thought you'd be interested because pleather is so hateful!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/592389/v-moda-m-100-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-etc/12885#post_9266202



naked snake said:


> Haven't posted here in a while..but looks like Turtle Beach finally has something to go up against the Mixamp, not sold as a standalone yet though.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/turtle-beach-ear-force-xp-seven-headset-review/



The headset is indeed ugly and doesn't sound promising, but the control and interface unit look promising. All those custom presets don't get me too excited, but the ability to personally adjust to a headphone or taste is nice. I get the feeling, though, that IF turtle beach sells the processor separately, it'll cost more than the Mixamp. Anyway, it IS nice to see that companies are investing in this market, and I continue to hope gaming audio through headphones gains attention and traction. I still wish it was featured as part of games as much as 1080p resolution or multiplayer, even built-in to consoles, but I still expect we'll have to settle for kludged-together setups festooned with wires. Also, LOL @ the comments about MW3's use of surround, and MadLust's comments to other commenters


----------



## BlackThought

Im at a fork in the road that i wish was easier.
   
  The DT990 was recommended to me on Reddit.
   
  I keep researching and come here and see that they arent the best for gaming (i REALLY care about directional accuracy)
   
  Think i'll go for the AD700s for gaming and a second pair for music listening.
   
  Hopefully thats the right choice.
   
  Any recommendations for a sound card? I have a Xonar DG but cant use it due to having CF now.
   
  Has to be PCI Express


----------



## cheuh

Hmmm... I'm thinking about returning my Q701's. They are excellent for gaming (probably the best I've used for gaming), very comfortable, and are pretty good for music. I just find that they don't have enough sub bass impact/slam for me. I tried EQing them and they don't really respond to bass EQ that well IMO.
   
  I don't plan on modding or purchasing the Anniversary pads either... any recommendations for any open headphones with more sub bass impact/slam while retaining good mids and soundstage/separation? I listen to electronic, trance, house, progressive, rap/hip hop. I was thinking maybe HD600 or DT880? Any other opinions?


----------



## Impulse

blackthought said:


> DT990 was recommended to me on Reddit. I keep researching and come here and see that they arent the best for gaming (i REALLY care about directional accuracy)
> 
> Think i'll go for the AD700s for gaming and a second pair for music listening. Hopefully thats the right choicen
> 
> Any recommendations for a sound card? I have a Xonar DG but cant use it due to having CF now. Has to be PCI Express.




How did you get the impression that the DT 990 aren't good for gaming from this thread? Tons of people within the thread have them and they were one of MLE's faves early on...

The AD700 might be slightly better if all you care about is competitive gaming, but if you actually want a good all-arounder or you're gonna use them for music at all I'd say the Beyers are the better choice. That is, provided you aren't overpaying for them as the price does fluctuate a lot (<$250 is decent).

ASUS' newer DGX is PCI-E, if you were happy with the DG and/or Dolby Headphone then the DGX would be a good place to start, it's amp might even be enough for you depending on what headphone you end up with.


----------



## BlackThought

Quote: 





impulse said:


> How did you get the impression that the DT 990 aren't good for gaming from this thread? Tons of people within the thread have them and they were one of MLE's faves early on...
> 
> The AD700 might be slightly better if all you care about is competitive gaming, but if you actually want a good all-arounder or you're gonna use them for music at all I'd say the Beyers are the better choice. That is, provided you aren't overpaying for them as the price does fluctuate a lot (<$250 is decent).
> 
> ASUS' newer DGX is PCI-E, if you were happy with the DG and/or Dolby Headphone then the DGX would be a good place to start, it's amp might even be enough for you depending on what headphone you end up with.


 

 Never said they werent good for gaming. i said they werent the BEST for gaming.
   
  Competitive: 10/10 (Basically Perfect)
  Competitive: 8/10 (Great)
   
  2 point gap is enough to concern me.


----------



## Impulse

I think you're overstating the value of that scoring rather than reading the reviews, impressions, and even what MLE himself has said many times about how good or how much of a difference anything that's an 8+ in that regard can have.

That being said, ultimately it's about your personal priorities and there is a sizeable price gap between the two. Could just as well look at something like the HD 558 if that's a consideration tho, you can find it used for not much more than a new AD700.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also just placed an order for the Sportapro...
> 
> That housing is identical to the KSC35...
> 
> ...


 
   
  The sportapros are what I have. 
   
  I didn't bother with the stock "sport" headband.  After some initial testing when I got them, I decided I wasn't a fan of the headband and popped the drivers out to use them elsewhere.
   
  I didn't think it was very comfy.  It's very akward compared to the simple elegance of the parts express headband.  It's got more ear pressure, less rotation (which means they put all the pressure on just one part of my ear), and is less open behind the driver so it sounds a bit more forward, congested/compressed, closed, boomy, etc.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Looks hideous.


 
   
  Agree. 
   
  The elongated shape and all those ribbed buttons make it look like some kind of electronic dil-doh


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also just placed an order for the Sportapro...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Looking forward to your impressions as to whether or not SportaPros really sport the KSC35 drivers. I've been curious about that for a while now, never wanted to spend $45 for the 35s but didn't want to waste money getting the SportaPros risking it not having the 35 drivers.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jerg said:


> Looking forward to your impressions as to whether or not SportaPros really sport the KSC35 drivers. I've been curious about that for a while now, never wanted to spend $45 for the 35s but didn't want to waste money getting the SportaPros risking it not having the 35 drivers.


 
   
  I'm 99.9% sure they're the same. 
   
  I doubt KOSS makes two pairs of identical looking black drivers but then separately puts them in the KSC35s and porta pros. 
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/205125/all-koss-headphones-with-the-ksc35-drivers-in-them#post_2466048


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





cheuh said:


> Hmmm... I'm thinking about returning my Q701's. They are excellent for gaming (probably the best I've used for gaming), very comfortable, and are pretty good for music. I just find that they don't have enough sub bass impact/slam for me. I tried EQing them and they don't really respond to bass EQ that well IMO.
> 
> I don't plan on modding or purchasing the Anniversary pads either... any recommendations for any open headphones with more sub bass impact/slam while retaining good mids and soundstage/separation? I listen to electronic, trance, house, progressive, rap/hip hop. I was thinking maybe HD600 or DT880? Any other opinions?


 
  All three HP listed have the same "flat-styled" Freq graph, and while they will have their differences, sound-wise, they're chasing after the same ideal, a straight forward, non-colored, detail-oriented HP.  If your dissatisfied with the amount of sub bass, then you might want to look at headphones with more of a v shape, but this will lean out the mids... What's you're budget? from $160-300 I would start looking towards the DT990 pro/premium lineup. +$400 I think most regular members would recommend something like K702 65TH, HE400s, D7000, LCD2. Also what are you using the Qs off of (what source/dac/amp)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy crap, just realized that the HD650 shipped from Florida. I ordered it yesterday, and it's already here to be delivered. It wasn't even an Amazon Prime listing. Free 1 day shipping! 



blackthought said:


> Never said they werent good for gaming. i said they werent the BEST for gaming.
> 
> Competitive: 10/10 (Basically Perfect)
> Competitive: 8/10 (Great)
> ...




Anything with an 8 or higher are basically the same in positional accuracy. *I have said this a MILLION times on this thread, point scores should NOT be compared*.

10's and 9s are reserved for headphones that suck out immersion/fun for raw detail performance. It doesn't make them better, it just makes them all about competitive gaming. Absolutely zero distraction or real enjoyment, since it's just a pure focus on mids and highs, with a longer, more expansive soundstage, thinner body, and more air. I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't ever rate a headphone near perfect on both fun and competitive. 

I'll take a headphone with an 8 if the fun is on par or better, because they will do everything well.

Ideally, people should look at whatever is at least an 8 on both, IMHO. Of course, I have specific tastes, so YMMV.


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> All three HP listed have the same "flat-styled" Freq graph, and while they will have their differences, sound-wise, they're chasing after the same ideal, a straight forward, non-colored, detail-oriented HP.  If your dissatisfied with the amount of sub bass, then you might want to look at headphones with more of a v shape, but this will lean out the mids... What's you're budget? from $160-300 I would start looking towards the DT990 pro/premium lineup. +$400 I think most regular members would recommend something like K702 65TH, HE400s, D7000, LCD2. Also what are you using the Qs off of (what source/dac/amp)?


 
   
  My budget is under $400, the lower the better. I'm running my Q701's from my Xonar DX soundcard to O2 amp. From what I read, the only thing I don't like about the DT990's is their bright fatiguing treble and recessed mid range. My preferences for a headphone is deep sub bass extension (rather than a mid bass hump), non recessed mids, good soundstage/instrument separation, and non fatiguing highs.... so basically sub bass > mids > treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's sub bass, mids, and non-fatiguijg treble, you'll have to fork a bit more than $400. That's HE500/LCD2 territory. You have to realize, sub bass is very hard to get out of headphones, and is usually paired with mid recession and bright/harsh highs.

You can get good mids and smooth treble (HD650), but it comes with a lack of sub bass. Most dynamic headphones worth anything will have a sub bass roll off. You have to look into planar magnetic. Also, there are still tradeoffs, like soundstage.

So you have to make tradeoffs. You can't have it all, especially not for $400 or less.

You basically asked for a perfectly ideal headphone. Not gonna happen, I assure you.

You could get some Annie pads, or just buy the Annies, and use some good EQ for a lot of sub bass. The Annie is as close a headphone in that price range as it gets, imho. Great mids, treble, soundstage, and good bass that undoubtedly can be EQ-ed up. Of course, once you EQ up, something else will get taken away whether its mids or treble, not sure.

Then there's the D7000 which is basically what you're asking for. A slight treble reduction is all it needs, and boom, that's sub bass (best sub bass emphasis i have ever heard, with reserved midbass, good mids, slightly sparkly treble, good soundstage all in one package. Still, well over $400, and quite rare now.


----------



## jerg

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm 99.9% sure they're the same.
> 
> I doubt KOSS makes two pairs of identical looking black drivers but then separately puts them in the KSC35s and porta pros.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/205125/all-koss-headphones-with-the-ksc35-drivers-in-them#post_2466048


 
  Eh I dunno, I've dug up Head-fi posts from many years ago and there were conflicting past reports of the SportaPro <-> KSC35 driver identities.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think they will be the same. Its the KSC75 that people keep getting confused. It only shared the driver with one other headphone, IIRC. Sme behind the neck headphone of theirs. The 35s I've seen having the same drivers as the Sporta and Portapro. Its the rear housing on those that alters the sound.

But soon enough I'll be 100% sure, though I may have to take driver variation into account. Still the 35 has some obvious smoothness next to the 75, which has a metallic twinge in the treble.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> Yea, this is a much more direct competitor to the Mixamp than the DSS. I'm not a fan of anything overly complex either, but it's an option for those that could use the customization. My needs as far as gaming are pretty simple, and I like what the Mixamp provides, but I'm interested to see if there's something this unit can do for me better than the Mixamp (I'm perfectly happy with the Mixamp atm tho)


 
   
  If the surround sound processing is anything like the DSS2 - and I imagine it is due to the option to configure speaker "angles" very similarly to the DSS2 - then Dolby Headphone absolutely crushes it by comparison.


----------



## Evshrug

blackthought said:


> Never said they werent good for gaming. i said they werent the BEST for gaming.
> 
> Competitive: 10/10 (Basically Perfect)
> Competitive: 8/10 (Great)
> ...




Mad scored the AD700s as gaming-godly because they emphasize tactical sound frequencies while having thin bass (Mad likes to say No Bass), so you really just concentrate on the details. Also, they have exceptional sound stage. The DT990 is just as detailed and also has a pretty good soundstage, but Mad thought it was also more fun because the bass was fuller, making the sound more exciting (and thus involving, though Mad's word choice is "fun" and "immersive"). The AD700 is great, and certainly a great value much cheaper than DT990s, but the DT990s are also very accurate at imaging and may just be more to your preference. That said, I have an AD700 myself and I'm not really interested in trying a DT990 (tho I really want to hear the DT880), I'm just saying do some more research before discounting something.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Quote: 





naked snake said:


> Haven't posted here in a while..but looks like Turtle Beach finally has something to go up against the Mixamp, not sold as a standalone yet though.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/turtle-beach-ear-force-xp-seven-headset-review/


 
  I have the TB PX5 unit which has pretty much the same functionality except that it only works on the PX5 wireless headset and I'm usually using my wired HPs. Don't fear the technology guys, its actually really handy and if you don't want to mess with it its all preprogramed so you just choose the setting that you like. They give you some really functional options like mic feedback and voice distortion so that you can do all sorts of fun things with it if you want, again, completely optional. I'd really advise you to keep an open mind about this unit, IMHO more options is better even if you don't ultimately use it all. I think this kind of thing is what leads innovation and if we're complacent and just settle for what's easy to use then ultimately the designers decide what we are going to get.


----------



## Evshrug

kellte2 said:


> If the surround sound processing is anything like the DSS2 - and I imagine it is due to the option to configure speaker "angles" very similarly to the DSS2 - then Dolby Headphone absolutely crushes it by comparison.



The linked article suggests that this device is back to using Dolby Headphone, and also allows for speaker angle adjustments. It's possible the article was wrong, but it's more likely they're right.
I'd like to try a Dolby Headphone device someday, but it's too bad that even the Mixamp suffers from some background noise and distortion, something that would be carried through double amping and only dampened by high impedance headphones. If this device manages a better SNR, it may be the better choice over a Mixamp. Overall, it's just good to see new developments in this space.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> The linked article suggests that this device is back to using Dolby Headphone, and also allows for speaker angle adjustments. It's possible the article was wrong, but it's more likely they're right.
> I'd like to try a Dolby Headphone device someday, but it's too bad that even the Mixamp suffers from some background noise and distortion, something that would be carried through double amping and only dampened by high impedance headphones. If this device manages a better SNR, it may be the better choice over a Mixamp. Overall, it's just good to see new developments in this space.




Get a Mixamp 2011 edition. Like mine. 

Best at noise outside of receivers with DH.


----------



## Evshrug

I thought you sold your Mixamp? I believe you mate, but I see it more likely that I'll end up with a Marantz myself one day instead of my entry-level Yamaha, and in the short run I may pick up a DSS on the cheap just to experience it outside of scripted videos. So stuff will happen, it's nice making money again and having my entertainment feel like a reward after a days work


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not yet. Dunno what that guy is waiting for.


----------



## tmaxx123

Was feeling a little crazy last night so I bought the gel ear pads for my mmx 300's! Will report back with my observations


----------



## Evshrug

To be outbid? I dunno either. Aaaaah! My ear clogged up!


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The linked article suggests that this device is back to using Dolby Headphone, and also allows for speaker angle adjustments. It's possible the article was wrong, but it's more likely they're right.
> I'd like to try a Dolby Headphone device someday, but it's too bad that even the Mixamp suffers from some background noise and distortion, something that would be carried through double amping and only dampened by high impedance headphones. If this device manages a better SNR, it may be the better choice over a Mixamp. Overall, it's just good to see new developments in this space.


 
   
  Seems to say Dolby Digital, but never specifically mentions Dolby Headphone.  In fact, the official Turtle Beah website only mentions Dolby Digital.  However, the type of output is probably too technical.
   
  Seems unclear, but I see no reason why TB would go back to Dolby Headphone after dumping it from the DSS2.


----------



## ninjikiran

Getting in Ultrasone Signature DJ's which are supposed to be in the neighborhood of a significantly beefed up 770pro/80  I am looking forward to testing them with games, <3 closed cans.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> I think they will be the same. Its the KSC75 that people keep getting confused. It only shared the driver with one other headphone, IIRC. Sme behind the neck headphone of theirs. The 35s I've seen having the same drivers as the Sporta and Portapro. Its the rear housing on those that alters the sound.
> 
> But soon enough I'll be 100% sure, though I may have to take driver variation into account. Still the 35 has some obvious smoothness next to the 75, which has a metallic twinge in the treble.




I think the KSC75 has the same driver as the KSC50/55 too (50's were the clips and 55 the behind the head variant), though they're discontinued... 

They actually looked a lot better IMO and the clip was much more securely attached but still flexible, fit was more hit or miss tho and the conventional grill was probably more expensive to stamp than the 75's.

I think they were pretty short lived, when did they stop making the 35's? I remember seeing the 50/55 quite a bit towards 2000 but by the time I went to get my sister some (maybe around 2005) they were already on the 75's.

I need to clean my KSC50 and replace the pads, they've disintegrated...


----------



## Makiah S

Wii U needs optical out, or I need an HDMI spillter with HD video out and HD sound out on seperate channels so I can amp the sound more. Even with thick cans and a thick tube the Wii U out of my Tvs head phone sounds thin
   
  But the new 1080p looks awesome! And the enviorments are a little richer. Still I need an optical In dac or amp, since I wonder if the optical out would just out put pure data...
   
  still new cans r awesome and new game is awesome, and new tv LOOKS awesome but sounds bad


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Hi all. Been awhile since I've posted here.


----------



## oobble

Does your Creative Recon3D USB allow you to adjust the Xbox chat volume separately from the game volume?
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey ScottishRump (Pip),
> Well, if you were looking for K701 and HD650 morsels, there are plenty in this thread! The first post will be most helpful — it's the guide. Each headphone review has a click to expand section for Mad's full review. If you want more, there has been more morsels of discussion on both if you go backwards from now rather than start at the oldest posts (excluding the guide post, which is very frequently updated).
> 
> The short version is, if you want an all-a'rounder headphone that is circumaural with great comfort, the AKG 701 65th Anniversary (fondly called the Annies) get a solid recommendation. It is more expensive than the K702 you mentioned, but this limited edition model has a flat headband offering more comfort for some, and a pleasing balanced tone that is a bare nudge warmer than the typical K702 (but not the aggressive "warmth" you experienced as part of the Grado house sound). Personally, I chose an AKG Q701 at half the cost, Chicolom posted a link to his more in-depth comparison one or two pages back, but the short version is the Q701 is closer to the Annies than another headphone brand, and still sounds great enough to have some great toe-curling audio-nirvana moments.
> ...


----------



## BlackThought

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad scored the AD700s as gaming-godly because they emphasize tactical sound frequencies while having thin bass (Mad likes to say No Bass), so you really just concentrate on the details. Also, they have exceptional sound stage. The DT990 is just as detailed and also has a pretty good soundstage, but Mad thought it was also more fun because the bass was fuller, making the sound more exciting (and thus involving, though Mad's word choice is "fun" and "immersive"). The AD700 is great, and certainly a great value much cheaper than DT990s, but the DT990s are also very accurate at imaging and may just be more to your preference. That said, I have an AD700 myself and I'm not really interested in trying a DT990 (tho I really want to hear the DT880), I'm just saying do some more research before discounting something.


 
  You guys are gonna make me pull my chin whiskers out
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'll give the DT990s a go then when im able to.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Head-Fi'er Nameless is selling his Recon3D USB for $70 USD, if you don't mind arranging shipping with him.


 
   
  Not to try and steal any from Nameless, but you can also see it new on Amazon lately for under $70. Right now Nameless has the better price by a good margin, but I got mine new for $65 recently with prime shipping. So as it sits, Nameless has the best price I've seen if you want to jump now. Waiting may have a benefit too.


----------



## Evshrug

oobble said:


> Does your Creative Recon3D USB allow you to adjust the Xbox chat volume separately from the game volume?



No, that is it's weakness. Usually games have an options box to allow you to turn down game volume, so you can turn the overall volume up to bring chat volume up, but cut game volume down to set your balance. Halo is the only one that bugs me that way, but even then I usually get by as long as I'm not driving a warthog. On PC, you can easily control chat vs game volume, there is even a switch on the side to change voice input gain, something the Mixamp doesn't do (as well as all the custom EQ and controls). But yeah, short answer, on Xbox, the Recon3D doesn't adjust chat volume separately from game volume.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Not to try and steal any from Nameless, but you can also see it new on Amazon lately for under $70. Right now Nameless has the better price by a good margin, but I got mine new for $65 recently with prime shipping. So as it sits, Nameless has the best price I've seen if you want to jump now. Waiting may have a benefit too.



Shipped to the UK? Avoiding VAT? Yeah... $5 less is worth waiting for to buy from Amazon US.

Now I want to see on camelcamelcamel.com how long it was selling for $65 and how often it's done that.
Edit:


----------



## DefMars

Looking to upgrade from my half broken Turtle Beach X11's. I've done some searching and i've come up with a few selections. I'd like to hear some opinions and get some more suggestions before I make a decision. I don't really want to spend more than $65, and I like to listen to music while I game.

 My Choices

 SteelSeries Siberia V2
 GameCon 780
 JVC HARX700 with Zalman mic
 Audio-Technica ATH-M30 with Zalman mic


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





defmars said:


> Looking to upgrade from my half broken Turtle Beach X11's. I've done some searching and i've come up with a few selections. I'd like to hear some opinions and get some more suggestions before I make a decision. I don't really want to spend more than $65, and I like to listen to music while I game.
> 
> My Choices
> 
> ...


 
   
  Don't eat lunch for 2 days and get the Skullcandy Slyrs.


----------



## Evshrug

^^
Reaching for the SLYR is probably the most beneficial value move, or waiting/finding them on sale. How much did the SLYRs originally sell for, $40? Probably won't go on sale for that cheap anytime soon (I dunno, is Easter usually a big discount day for electronics and headphones?), but they might get close to your budget. Target has them for $75 right now, I think. Includes the stuff needed to connect to an Xbox, I think...
I bought an HA-RX900 (modded with a little pinch of cotton and Dynamat resonance dampening material in the earcups) for a friend as a college grad gift, he was pretty impressed and I thought it was a good value. I'd suggest a lapel mic instead of the Zalman though.


----------



## chicolom

So, here are some impressions from the meet I went to:
   
  BTW, disclaimer: everything was tested off my M-stage/ODAC setup, except for the HE-6...
   
   
*HD800*:  VERY spacious, as you would expect.  Even though I was only running them off the M-stage, they still sounded more open then the Q701s.  The separation was very clear, and it had some of that "floating" instruments which I'm a big fan of.  The soundstage height and depth was also very impressive.  They're also warmer than I was expecting.  Warmer than the Q701s, but not quite as warm as the anniversaries.  Unlike the Anniversaries though, they have more air and treble extension up top. When I A-Bed briefly with the Q701s, the Q701s sounded more chalky and a bit flat and grainy sounding (also shorter soundstage, less depth).  I'm not sure the Q701s do anything better (_maybe_ warmer treble?), and the HD800s are a nice and natural upgrade from them.  Also, the HD800s have _the_ largest and deepest cups out of any headphones I've ever worn.  I was very happy to discover that.  I could DEFINITELY see myself owning and loving these.  Not a ton of bass, so they probably aren't great for electronic, but likely amazing for acoustic.
   
   
*T1*:  The first thing that surprised me when I put these on was the bass impact.  It hit harder than I was expecting it too - very tight bass but punchy bass.  They also had impressive soundstage depth and great separation. They were also brighter than I was expecting.  Also, these are extremely comfortable.  The cups are unlike the Beyer DT series, they are very deep and spacious inside - with angled drivers.  Awesome velour too.
   
   
*D7000*:  OMG, the bass is unlike ANYTHING I've ever heard from a headphone.  I did some bass frequency sweeps and I literally said "Oh My God..." outloud when it went down past 25-30hz.  It was rumbling my body in ways it's never been rumbled before.  I was there with a friend and when he listened, he said "Jesus..." when it got down low.   Also, for a closed headphone the soundstage is HUGE.  I started a song thinking "OK, it's closed - so it can't throw the sound out _that_ far" and then it threw it way out farther than I was expecting.  I can see the soundstage doing fine in gaming, as well as a lot of open headphones.  The only thing that worries me is that the bass will be TOO much at times.  Also the initial comfort was very high.  The cups were spacious and my ears didn't touch anything inside.  I think it had J$ pads though.  I don't know how it would feel over extended listening though (velour FTW).
   
   
*TH900:  *So gorgeous...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  They sounded similar to the D7000, but I didn't A-B them or anything.  The bass still touched me deep inside.  
   
*HE-500*:  Reminded me of a warmer HE-400 (a good thing).  Better mids, treble not as hot/emphasized.
   
*HE-6*:  Intimate and extremely clear/transparent.  I actually thought the setup they were hooked to was playing higher resolution files or something as the voices sounded amazing.  While I wasn't a huge fan of the intimate-ness everything else about them was very impressive.  I was also listened off a higher powered dac/amp to juice the HE-6s properly.  BTW, comfort/fit on both the Hifiman's is pretty good - they can be heavier.
   
   
*LCD-3*:  The bass quantity was lower then I was expecting, which surprised me.  I had heard that the bass on these was amazing, but nothing stood out to me.  Nothing like on the D7000/TH900 that blew me away.  I think there was something unusual about the bass that seemed different from other headphones I'd heard, but I couldn't put my finger on it.  Overall I was underwhelmed.  Also they're HUGE and the fit is _strange_.  Look at pictures of them, and they feel on your head how you would expect them to.  The pads are so angled, it feels like they the back of the pads is trying to push the front of the pads forward off your head.  When you wiggle your head the microphonics are noticeable.
   
   
  I didn't get to hear the *Stax SR303* (are those the same ones you have Nameless?), but I did put them on my head to test out the fit/comfort.  They were pretty flat inside the cups and my ears were smushed against the foam Grado-style, so I don't think I could wear them for long.
   
  The *HD700* I also didn't hear, but I put them on and they were very comfy.  While the earcups were smaller than the HD800, there was still enough room that my big ears didn't touch anything.
   
   
  Just keep in mind that all those impressions are VERY ROUGH, and coming off my humble M-stage/ODAC (there were some _monstrous _amps there).
   
   
   
  Overall, my favorites were the HD800, T1, D7000, and TH900 in no particular order.  I think the Hifimans and LCD-3 are less "obviously" impressive and probalby take more listening time than a rough impression to appreciate their refinement (and probalby nicer amps then the M-stage :\)  I'm also easily impressed by soundstage so the Sennheisers, Beyer, and Denons/Fostex may have had an advantage with me there.
   
  I also still thought the anniversaries put up an impressive and respectable fight against the flagships.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AHA! So the D7000 strikes again!

What did I tell you? That headphone... best bass... evar. And yes, for a very refined can, it can have too much bass at times. More often than not though, its not an issue as its all sub bass, so that big bass doesn't hamper clarity. If you listen carefully, you can hear that the mid bass is actually quite reserved. I miss it, so much. Glad you acknowledged the soundstage. It's VERY impressive for a closed headphone. Closed in that it doesn't leak out, but it sure as hell acts like an open headphone when it comes to external noises.

As for the LCD3, I'm sure it's a lot like the LCD2. The thing is, the bass is actually quite accurate. Like the Annie, it only hits when there is bass, and it hits hard when it's called for. It has amazing texture and rumble, as long as a song truly yearns for it. By comparison, the D7000 emphasizes bass in a tasteful way, but isn't accurate. It's a basshead headphone for those with refined tastes, while the LCDs are for those who like balanced headphones that love when bass reaches deep only when it's asked for in the source.

So jealous you got to hear the TH900 and HD800. I actually kind of want to return the 650s (bought them used anyways), and save up for an HE500. I think I'll stick to the KSC35 for laying down use. I love the HD650s, bit I'm ready to hear stellar planar mids outside of the LCD2. I was originally gonna buy a cable for my LCD2, but then thought that the price of the cable plus the HD650 is like the price of a used HE500...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> AHA! So the D7000 strikes again!
> 
> What did I tell you? That headphone... best bass... evar. And yes, for a very refined can, it can have too much bass at times. More often than not though, its not an issue as its all sub bass, so that big bass doesn't hamper clarity. If you listen carefully, you can hear that the mid bass is actually quite reserved. I miss it, so much. Glad you acknowledged the soundstage. It's VERY impressive for a closed headphone. Closed in that it doesn't leak out, but it sure as hell acts like an open headphone when it comes to external noises.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Yeah, the D7000 was VERY impressive.  I don't know where it found all that soundstage room inside those closed cups.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I would love to hear it for gaming to see what the bass does when something in the environment triggers sub-bass.
   
  Have you been looking into Fostex's two spiritual successors?  Maybe you have a THx00 in your future.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I'm not sure I could stand the LCD's fit for extended listening.  They felt very weird - like I was trapped inside a leathery cave.  Maybe the vegan pads aren't so bad.
   
  Either way, at those prices I'd be wanting addicting soundstage performance, so something like HD800 would probably be more my style.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The vegan is certainly noticeably more comfortable on the ears. I can wear it all day. The only issue with comfort once you get past the leather pads, is the sheer weight of it.

As for the Fostex... would love to have a TH-600 or TH-900, but not for the price. Thats prohibitive to the tee.

As for what comes next for me, it's now mids and warmth, as long as bass is decent. I would love the leather lcd2, but not gonna sacrifice the any more comfort. It's not easy to wear it for a long period like the vegan.


----------



## chicolom

Maybe you should get the PX-100 II.  It's dark/warm.  And cheap.


----------



## Impulse

defmars said:


> Looking to upgrade from my half broken Turtle Beach X11's. I've done some searching and i've come up with a few selections. I'd like to hear some opinions and get some more suggestions before I make a decision. I don't really want to spend more than $65, and I like to listen to music while I game.
> 
> 
> My Choices
> ...




I actually still like my RX700 for what they are, for $35 I think they're probably the best choice... 

If you can stretch the budget or find a deal on the CAL tho, that would be a nice upgrade over the JVC. I think MLE still liked then better than the Slyr, I haven't tried the latter but it's probably good choice too, as others said.

The RX900 have a somewhat better sound stage (than the RX700) but I don't think they're worth the higher price and they aren't as balanced for music.


----------



## Impulse

Nice impressions chico, thanks for sharing. I wonder if Fostex intends to keep stretching the TH lineup downward or if this is it... One nice thing about the old Denons was how it started with the humble D2000s, such a shame they got the axe.

I'd love to have the chance to audition some of those (specially the HD 800, T1 & TH900) but realistically I'm not sure I'd ever allow myself to splurge on anything that high end so I'm probably better off... 

The HE-500 OTOH, mayyybe at some point.


----------



## preproman

Yeah - The D7000 are the 2012 edition.  Maybe there is something to that.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   Chico, The LCD-3s are a clear step up form the LCD-2.2 in the treble region.  You may not be a LCD fan per say.  Also if the HE-500 or the HE-6 was not among your favorites it also may be safe to say your not an ortho fan all together.  
   
  The HE-6 was powered by a First Watt F1J and the PWD2 was the DAC.  
   
  The HD800 are a great head phone.  When people say amps/dacs play a major part in synergy it's true.  They really do have pretty good bass.  However, you amp has to help in this regard.  
   
  The HE-500 are a nice warm seductive headphone.  I much prefer it over the HE-400 in ever way.  However, I can understand the HE-400 feeding the Bass Head need in some people.
   
  There's folks in the TH-900 thread that just flat out hating on the D7000.  I will never (hopefully) never get rid of the D7000.  IMO they're more of a funner headphone than the TH-900 where the TH-900 is more of a Reference headphone.  Just IMO.
   
  Those HD700 were modded and sounded pretty darn good.  With out the mod they may sound a bit harsh - not sure.
   
  Surprising about the T1.  Lord_tris said they were way to bassy for him.  He like Grados/Magnums  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I happen to like the T1s a lot.  Not my favorite but they beat out most.
   
  And yes.  The Annies still was the BIS IMO as far as price per performance goes..  Eee Pee played them on his Sonnet and was very impressed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Maybe you should get the PX-100 II.  It's dark/warm.  And cheap.




True. But I already have the Koss set for that ultraportable need. I think I might just return the HD650 and just stick to the LCD2 as my one and only, unless I can find someone who will trade their D7K with me. Then I'll get an HE500 as the compliment to the D7K...


----------



## Pheendom

Hi all.
  Regarding the SLYR, I have a brief update.
  Having contacted Skullcandy customer services, they were truly baffled by what I was reporting. And in researching online, I have found that many many people also are suffering with the same problem. Customer care has now escalated this issue to a higher bracket, because I think they are blown away by what they are hearing. Very excited to see what they come back with.


----------



## Jodiuh

I hate this thread. Lost my Q701 replacement pads and JUST ordered a new set. Now I learn I could have BASS w/ my Q's if I'd simply have read this thread earlier...but I avoid it because I'm afraid MLE's going to find the new Q. 
   
  Edit: Those looking to "fix" the headband issue on the Q can do what I did. Rip it all off and duct tape a washcloth to the top. It looks awful, but I'm not one to care about looks on something that used to be the cause of MUCH pain.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> ...
> *HD800*:  VERY spacious, as you would expect.  Even though I was only running them off the M-stage, they still sounded more open then the Q701s.  The separation was very clear, and it had some of that "floating" instruments which I'm a big fan of.  The soundstage height and depth was also very impressive.  They're also warmer than I was expecting.  Warmer than the Q701s, but not quite as warm as the anniversaries.  Unlike the Anniversaries though, they have more air and treble extension up top. When I A-Bed briefly with the Q701s, the Q701s sounded more chalky and a bit flat and grainy sounding (also shorter soundstage, less depth).  I'm not sure the Q701s do anything better (_maybe_ warmer treble?), and the HD800s are a nice and natural upgrade from them.  Also, the HD800s have _the_ largest and deepest cups out of any headphones I've ever worn.  I was very happy to discover that.  I could DEFINITELY see myself owning and loving these.  Not a ton of bass, so they probably aren't great for electronic, but likely amazing for acoustic.
> ...
> The *HD700* I also didn't hear, but I put them on and they were very comfy.  While the earcups were smaller than the HD800, there was still enough room that my big ears didn't touch anything.




Woah. WOAH!
I have this feeling... The Sennheiser HD800 may one day delay my dream purchase of a Porsche. A Leica M camera used to hold that slot, but photography has kinda fallen out of favor w/me. But yeah, that HD800... your description sounds Amazing Chico, and I've only read good things about it otherwise. Wish you'd been able to hear the HD700 too.

Also, I have a pair of PX100! Not the Mk II version, but they've seen a lot of use as my main out-and-about and travel headphone. Sometimes I'd rather just have a nice headphone rather than fiddle with the insertion/extraction techniques of an IEM, when I don't NEED the fantastic sound isolation I get with the Etymotic ER•6i. Only thing is, I definitely need new pads for these bad boys, the old foam has disintegrated a bit over the... Gosh, like 6 years I've used them as my knockabouts? They have had Zero head-time though, since getting the Q701 and surround gaming. I haven't exactly been on many trips or not needed to focus while at my destination, and the Q701 just wins my attention at home.

Pheendom,
Customer support (if they have a sense of vision) will probably value your use-case scenario as a learning experience and potential issue to address, if it is within the mixer hardware. If I was you, I'd have mixed feelings if I discovered it was some dumb software thing I overlooked – deep moment, but at the same time that is the easiest thing to fix. Either way, I hope the issue is resolved to your satisfaction.


----------



## Evshrug

Eugh Jodiah!
No offense man, but that is one ugly pic of an ugly headphone mod. If it works for you, so be it, but I won't do that because the headband already seems to stretch up too high sometimes. The baby seatbelt-wrapper is much more tidy and works great without making irreversible changes.


----------



## Jodiuh

None taken. It's our differences that give us reason to celebrate!


----------



## TMRaven

Eh it's not that far off compared to the monstrosities that people do to their HE-400 and HE-500 headbands.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I didn't get to hear the *Stax SR303* (are those the same ones you have Nameless?), but I did put them on my head to test out the fit/comfort.  They were pretty flat inside the cups and my ears were smushed against the foam Grado-style, so I don't think I could wear them for long.


 
   
  I _had_ an SR-303 once, but it arrived with a split right driver, between the inner stator and the diaphragm. I re-glued it back together, but it was still noticeably imbalanced. Needless to say, I re-sold it.
   
  The comfort was greater than the SR-202 I had due to the softer pads, but I just can't get over that higher clamping force the Nova/numerical-style headband/arc assembly brings. Vintage Lambdas (SR-Lambda, Lambda Pro, Lambda Signature) feel much more comfortable because of that.
   
  Another factor is that my SR-Lambda, like all vintage Lambdas, no longer have the foam in the inner earcups because it rotted out years ago and most owners have removed it. Some people opt to correct that and the aged earpads by replacing them with new SR-*07 earpads that have cloth in place of the old foam; I hope it feels a lot less itchier than the SR-202 and SR-303 foam.
   
  Also, if you think the SR-303's earcups are uncomfortably shallow, try the SR-Gamma/Alpha on for size...now THAT'S shallow. Can't stand to wear it for very long with my ears (pinnae) constantly touching the plastic inside the cups. Quite a shame, as it sounds pretty nice otherwise (provided the set isn't horribly imbalanced like mine).


----------



## Impulse

That's some ghetto fabulous mod Jodiuh...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





preproman said:


> Yeah - The D7000 are the 2012 edition.  Maybe there is something to that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Nice impressions chico, thanks for sharing. I wonder if Fostex intends to keep stretching the TH lineup downward or if this is it... One nice thing about the old Denons was how it started with the humble D2000s, such a shame they got the axe.
> 
> *Yeah.  Well Fostex came out with the TH600 so they're getting a little more affordable I guess.  *
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Woah. WOAH!
> I have this feeling... The Sennheiser HD800 may one day delay my dream purchase of a Porsche.  But yeah, that HD800... your description sounds Amazing Chico, and I've only read good things about it otherwise. Wish you'd been able to hear the HD700 too.


 
   
  If you like the Q701, I think the HD800s are considered the natural upgrade.  If I could own only one flagship (LOL, like I could own _more _than _one_! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_)_ the HD800s would probably be the logical choice.  I need my soundstage!!  If I was going to get a headphone like that, I would need to do a lot more listening/research first.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Shipped to the UK? Avoiding VAT? Yeah... $5 less is worth waiting for to buy from Amazon US.
> 
> Now I want to see on camelcamelcamel.com how long it was selling for $65 and how often it's done that.
> Edit:


 
   
  Mine wasn't sold from Amazon, but the 3rd party seller J&R. Same company as you, just through Amazon instead.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> AHA! So the D7000 strikes again!
> 
> What did I tell you? That headphone... best bass... evar.


 
  Grr now I want one, I love my w1000x, and these closed cans have a LOT of sound stage as well :O as much as my dt 880 for sure [although 880 is on thick intimate amp, w1000x on Clean Lean spaicious amp]
   
  ethier way the D7000 is sadly on my list q.q one will show up soon! And when that time comes [maybe when I get my first Tax Refund] I'll end up with em <3


----------



## DefMars

So it seems for a headphone/mic combo the Skullcandy SLYRs have the best value $100 and under? They seem to be hard to find, I live in canada.


----------



## Impulse

Depends on current pricing, sometimes the CAL drops as low as $65 so even with a pricy ModMic they'd cost about the same (or much less w/a cheaper mic).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay so I got my Sportapros in.

Headband is terrible, lol. So cheap looking. Pretty comfy though. I still prefer the parts express headband, as its a lot less obtrusive and just as comfy.

Popping the drivers out wasn't as easy as I though. They were really on there, but they came out soon after, and putting them back on was a lot easier, as well as taking them off from then on.

I got a brief session with the sportapro headband, and I didn't feel the headband and enclosure didnt really affect SQ like I thought it would. It slightly alters how the drivers sit on my ears compared to the PE headband, KSC75 clips, and KSC35 clips.

Ultimately, I think the KSC75 sounds best with its own clips (as long as the clips are bent inward so the driver hugs your ears tightly. They are a bit loose out of the package). The KSC35 don't fit the same way on the KSC75 clips as the enclosure is thinner, so it sounds more ideal off it's own clips as well. After a longer session with the PE headband, I ultimately felt that it's too finicky with placement and alters the sound of either Koss driver depending on where it rests. With their own clips, the drivers pretty much sit in the perfect spot, everytime. So while the PE headband is nice for those that just can't deal with clips, I'd say the clips are better suited, sonically. The Sportapro headband is nearly as good as the PE headband, but with more plastic and overall parts. The headband works in a pinch, but I'd say it's worth getting the PE headband instead.

So what about the Sportapro driver? Is it the sams as the KSC35? Well, one exterior difference from my KSC35 to the Sportapro driver is that the cable is slightly thicker (almost imperceptible), and it terminates into a right angle 3.5mm plug with a much better strain relief. So the Sportapro sold today has a better cable than the KSC35 sold by Koss directly. Though the cable is different, that could be purely a design change, and not because the two are different.

Testing the differences on all headbands and clips, I can say that despite slight variation of sound (possibly driver variation or if you wanna believe, burn in as my KSC35 has a TON of hours as I used it like 5 hours every night at work), the KSC35 and Sportapro, to ME are the same.

Here's the predicament. The Sportapro might have the same drivers, but the KSC35 clips are the BEST for the KSC35 in terms of raw SQ. This to me personally, is undeniable. 

So while you can get Sportapro for cheap, you won't have the KSC35 clips. I can't even find the KSC35 clips for sale alone.

The only thing I can think of is that once your Sportapro drivers go bad, you can send the drivers alone in for repair and tell them its a KSC35 but dont have the clips. Lol. You might get caught as the cable is different. 

All in all, I suggest the Sportapro + KSC75 as a makeshift KSC35. The difference isn't huge, but I feel the KSC75 clips on the Sportapro drivers is maybe just a hint inferior to the same with KSC35 clips. 

Too bad it goes for $45 on Koss. That's too expensive over the Sportapro which is around $20. $25 just for cheap plastic clips is illogical. With the Sportapro + KSC75, you get two different drivers, plus really comfy clips for $35.

Was able to A/B the Sportapro drivers w/KSC35 clips vs KSC35 w/KSC75 clips. While similar, the Sportapro still edges out the victory, so it lets me know the Sportapro really is the same as the KSC35.

One thing I noticed is that the KSC75 with it's own clips is more v-shaped than the KSC35 or Sportapro drivers with tbe same clips. Its unquestionably brighter on the treble, and slightly mid recessed in direct comparison. Bass is near the same (that clip bending mod really brought out the bass in the KSC75).

Btw, to clarify on why I think the KSC35 clips are better sounding than the KSC75 clips, its because they aren't bendable, and automatically places the KSC35/Sportapro drivers at the optimal distance and placement for most balanced sound. The KSC75 clips might be bendable, but is harder to put in the perfect distance/tightness. My KSC75 clips make the KSC35 slightly more bassy than balanced in comparison to the KSC35 clips. Not by much, but it's noticeable. In theory, the KSC75 clips can be just as good as the KSC35 clips, but getting it to be that perfect would be hard, not to mention the constant use would change the distance eventually. Not an issue with the KSC35 clips.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> After a longer session with the PE headband, I ultimately felt that it's too finicky with placement and alters the sound of either Koss driver depending on where it rests. With their own clips, the drivers pretty much sit in the perfect spot, everytime.
> 
> Too bad it goes for $45 on Koss. That's too expensive over the Sportapro which is around $20. $25 just for cheap plastic clips is illogical. With the Sportapro + KSC75, you get two different drivers, plus really comfy clips for $35.


 
   
  I don't see what is so hard about positioning the parts express headband.  It's no different than any other earpad headphone.
   
  I've used the KSCs long enough that I can tell when the drivers lock into that "perfect spot" - where the center of the driver lines up with the center of my ear.  It takes me 3 seconds to put them there, then I'm good for the next couple hours.
   
  It's true that the clips have less room for error in placement, but I think the clips actually make them sit too far back and high on MY ears, where they are no longer firing in the center.  Closer to behind center.  With the headband I make them fire right into the ear.
   
   
  I don't know why the KSC35 is so expensive.  I think Koss is just milking them since they de-discontinued them.
  Someone should just sneak into the Koss factory and steal a bag of clips.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, true.

As for the PE headband, I just can't get proper placement as easily as the KSC35 clips. With the clips, it's perfect in less than a second. The PE headband takes a lot longer for me, and because it's nowhere near as secure on my head, it moves out of position, making me redo the whole placement. Also, it's a bit harder to bend for maximum SQ compared to the KSC75 clips.

Overall, the KSC75 clips have the best of everything. Placement, comfort, and not hard to come by. They just need to be bent.

Man, the Sportapro headband is a pain to bend properly. I overbent, and it took forever to bend back to a stocklike form. Out of the box, the Sportapro is hella tight, making the drivers super bassy. Now, it's more or less about as good as the Parts Express headband in terms of SQ. It's actually a pretty decent headband, though it needs more extension for larger heads. The PE headband has plenty of extension.


----------



## shanek248

Hey
  
 I have been thinking of getting a set of AD700 headphones due to the rave reviews they have been getting here and elsewhere for some time now. I need them for gaming. 100% gaming.
  
 I play FPS games on PS3 and do not have an Astro mixamp. I do however run my PS3 through HDMI to my Onkyo 509 (TX-NR509). So at the moment I already have great surround through my 5.1 system. I do however wish to be able to game chat and my wife cant take the noise and also practices piano in the same room. Which I cant take!  (I am aware there is no built in mic but I am willing to do a fix since these are apparently worth it for the quality...)
  
 Now I am hoping I can save some cash and connect a set of AD700s through my audio receiver. Is this possible? I mean is this going to work in the same way? Will the directional positioning be as good? I get the impression that the standard Jack in most Audio Receivers doesn't output a surround signal. Does this mean the AD700s + AStro Mixamp is the only way to go?
  
 What about something higher end like the K701s or is the issue the Audio Jack Output....?
  
 I would love some ideas from you guys on the best bang for my buck I can get given the set-up I already have.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, the Sportapro headband is a pain to bend properly. I overbent, and it took forever to bend back to a stocklike form. Out of the box, the Sportapro is hella tight, making the drivers super bassy. Now, it's more or less about as good as the Parts Express headband in terms of SQ. It's actually a pretty decent headband, though it needs more extension for larger heads. The PE headband has plenty of extension.


 
   
   
  It's pretty awkward, because it's designed to be wearable above the head, behind the head, and also fold up. 
   
  For me the drivers don't quite pivot enough to sit flat on my ears, which gives me uneven pressure that gets sore after a while.  I also just think they feel awkward on my head. Too many unnecessary plastic pieces and folding joints.
   
  The parts express basically disappears on my head.  The headband itself barely even touches my head - it's mainly like a floating clamp to hold the drivers against my ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh I agree. I meant to say the Sportapro headband is comfy, but not as comfy as the PE headband. I second that there is too much plastic on the head contact, especially the ones that sit directly on the top of my head. The PE headband is a thin metal strip that molds to the head. Can't get much better than that. It literally does disappear.


----------



## chicolom

One thing that sucks about the Koss clip ons is how susceptible they are to getting hair rattling on the driver.
   
  I was playing around with some frequency sweeps and my right driver has got a rattle.  Normally it's no big deal.  They get hairs in there pretty easily but it's not hard to take them apart and blow them out.  But I just took it apart to inspect for hairs and I think it's got a hair _underneath_ the diaphragm.  How the hell do I get _that_ out!?


----------



## Impulse

shanek248 said:


> Hey, I have been thinking of getting a set of AD700 headphones due to the rave reviews they have been getting here and elsewhere for some time now. I need them for gaming. 100% gaming.
> 
> 
> I play FPS games on PS3 and do not have an Astro mixamp. I do however run my PS3 through HDMI to my Onkyo 509 (TX-NR509). So at the moment I already have great surround through my 5.1 system. I do however wish to be able to game chat and my wife cant take the noise and also practices piano in the same room. Which I cant take!  (I am aware there is no built in mic but I am willing to do a fix since these are apparently worth it for the quality...)
> ...




Surround and connection issues aside, you're gonna be listening to your wife's piano right thru those AD700... Open headphones might not be the best idea if isolation's an issue, unless she's like one room away. She'll probably even hear the AD700 leaking in between piano notes. 

You should really read thru the first post of the thread, it'll answer lots of questions, but the AVR that do a competent job of surround emulation thru the headphone output aren't many... Mostly Yamahas and older discontinued models from other brands I think, don't hold me to that tho.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have really short hair, so ive never had an issue with that. My driver rattle had to be a blown driver, the first time. I abused the hell out of my clip ons.


----------



## Naingolann

I also had the same rattling problem, which I tried to fix in every possible way. In the end, I'm pretty certain that it was a blown driver as MLE said. 
   
  That's also why my next portable headphone won't be a koss, even though I really liked its sound signature...Either way, I'd still recommend the hell out of 'em to anyone.
   
   
  *edit*
  Been using my DT990 with my vintage receiver...Just one thing: HOLY S***, this thing is putting the Fiio E9 to shame. I couldn't have possibly imagined a quality amp would have so much impact on the sound...I'm amazed. And delighted.
   
  Yes, it has slightly more background noise than the Fiio, but It's hardly noticeable and honestly the pros outweigh the cons to the point that I just don't care...It'll be tough going back to the E9 now.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





shanek248 said:


> Hey
> 
> I have been thinking of getting a set of AD700 headphones due to the rave reviews they have been getting here and elsewhere for some time now. I need them for gaming. 100% gaming.
> 
> *SNIP*


 
  Unfortunately Impulse, and your fears that your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone are true. Such a shame because looking at the specs its a really good HTR (I'm rather fond of Onkyo HTRs). Perhaps the cheapest way to get DH out of your ps3 is to track down a DSS1/2 (of all the options I believe this to be one of the cheaper ones.), then pair it with an easier to drive headphone (like the AD700) for a direct connection, or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive. As far as mics go you might want to look at noise cancelling if your significant other is going to be practicing piano in the same room. The Labtec can be found on ebay for about $15.00 or  you could pay a little more and wait for the (V3.0/V4.0) modmic... a little more expensive, but tons more elegant. To connect the mic to the PS3 youre going to need a cheap USB Soundcard (the kind that looks like a flash drive) which has a mic input. These can be found on deal extreme for less than $3. Of course the the more elegant solution (mixamp) is also more expensive.
   
  As for isolation... clearly the AD700s are not going to do you any favors in this regard... Would it be true to say that the leaking of the AD700 is more of a factor than the incoming ambient/surrounding noise? If so then I think it more or less depends on the space which you will be gaming. Unless you really like to crank the volume, or if your wife has super hearing, the AD700s shouldn't be too much of a bother... at least from 15-20' away. OTOH if you're bothered by the piano, and decide to turn up the volume of the game...well then I would clearly choose either a semi-closed or closed hp. 

 Where are you located? If you're in the US, then your best bet may be to buy off Amazon (make sure the seller is Amazon though, not a 3rd party)... if the AD700 leak too much then you can always return them for something a little more closed (say the CALs/DT990s) with out too much of a headache or penalty. 
   
  I 2nd impulses' advice and give the 1st page a good read through though. It might also help sort out what your second or third choice may be if the 700s are a no go.


----------



## shanek248

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Surround and connection issues aside, you're gonna be listening to your wife's piano right thru those AD700... Open headphones might not be the best idea if isolation's an issue, unless she's like one room away. She'll probably even hear the AD700 leaking in between piano notes.
> 
> You should really read thru the first post of the thread, it'll answer lots of questions, but the AVR that do a competent job of surround emulation thru the headphone output aren't many... Mostly Yamahas and older discontinued models from other brands I think, don't hold me to that tho.


 
   
  Thanks for the reply!
   
  Well the issue of my wives piano is much more minor than finding a nice headset which does a good job of directional positioning in the 3d environment. It is not as If I game 24 hours a day and my wife practices constantly beside me. But sometimes these things do overlap!
   
  A certain amount of leak either direction would be fine but due to the fact that my rear right hand side speaker is positioned a few feet above her head at the moment. She requires me to turn the volume way down. She is a very high standard pianist so her piano really has to take priority over my MLG aspirations. ;-p
   
  Really this is my question though. Will my receiver even output a signal which can match the mixamp when it comes to making the ad700s a good headset for my particular brand of gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Koss family, tested off my Sansa Fuze V2


----------



## shanek248

> Originally Posted by *ruuku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Unfortunately Impulse, and your fears that your receiver does not support Dolby Headphone are true.


 



> Originally Posted by *ruuku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Such a shame because looking at the specs its a really good HTR (I'm rather fond of Onkyo HTRs). Perhaps the cheapest way to get DH out of your ps3 is to track down a DSS1/2 (of all the options I believe this to be one of the cheaper ones.), then pair it with an easier to drive headphone (like the AD700) for a direct connection, or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive.


 
  Thanks. I am glad I made a good choice!! Am I right in thinking you are recommending a midi keyboard to drive the headset? What do you mean by the last sentence? "or use your Onkyo as an amp for something a little harder to drive." It probably is self explanatory to you but I am not sure how this is a solution. apologies! 


> Originally Posted by *ruuku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As far as mics go you might want to look at noise cancelling if your significant other is going to be practicing piano in the same room. The Labtec can be found on ebay for about $15.00 or  you could pay a little more and wait for the (V3.0/V4.0) modmic... a little more expensive, but tons more elegant. To connect the mic to the PS3 youre going to need a cheap USB Soundcard (the kind that looks like a flash drive) which has a mic input. These can be found on deal extreme for less than $3. Of course the the more elegant solution (mixamp) is also more expensive.


 
  The issue of my wife and the Piano is not as major as I may have implied. On the occasions where she is practicing I can simply turn off the mic. Thanks!


> Originally Posted by *ruuku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> As for isolation... clearly the AD700s are not going to do you any favors in this regard... Would it be true to say that the leaking of the AD700 is more of a factor than the incoming ambient/surrounding noise? If so then I think it more or less depends on the space which you will be gaming. Unless you really like to crank the volume, or if your wife has super hearing, the AD700s shouldn't be too much of a bother... at least from 15-20' away. OTOH if you're bothered by the piano, and decide to turn up the volume of the game...well then I would clearly choose either a semi-closed or closed hp.


 
  I dont think leaking in either direction should really be an issue... I have never hade an open HP before so I am not sure how much they leak but I think she can play with a bit of my noise and I can play with a bit of hers. The room is quite big ... but... she will be sitting about 10 feet from where I sit.



> Originally Posted by *ruuku* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Where are you located? If you're in the US, then your best bet may be to buy off Amazon (make sure the seller is Amazon though, not a 3rd party)... if the AD700 leak too much then you can always return them for something a little more closed (say the CALs/DT990s) with out too much of a headache or penalty.
> 
> I 2nd impulses' advice and give the 1st page a good read through though. It might also help sort out what your second or third choice may be if the 700s are a no go.


 
  I`m located in Ireland but my best options would most likely be the same... eBay and amazon.
   
  I thought I had read the whole start part but since two of you have now recommended I read it I obviously missed something so Ill read it all again. Really for me I want something that supplies that competitive edge. Directional Positioning. I have a broken pair of Trittons which I found excellent but all the guys on here seem to rate them very lowly in the one regard they claim to excel. So I was intrigued by the Astro Mixamp+ad700+custom mic combo that everyone seems to champion as the best gaming headset solution. This got me to wondering if my Onkyo could drive the headset in the same way as the Mixamp.
   
  Seems like such a shame to have all that power sitting there and buying a silly mixamp for 150 euro or something!
   
  I will most likely try fixing my trittons myself but I am still intrigued now as to what I am missing....


----------



## SoAmusing777

Gonna have to go back and read all the messages here soon, but hope everyone is doing well. I wish someone would swoop up my receiver, as I have another one now. It's just collecting dust. Did I miss anything? lol.


----------



## Impulse

*shanek248*, your receiver may or may not drive low impedance headphones any better than something like the Mixamp, but it wouldn't be a big disparity either way, might not even do that great a job to be honest... 

Truthfully the headphone output of AVRs isn't always the greatest, and even when it is decent it might still have impedance issues with low impedance headphones made to be driven by portable or lower power sources.

Then on top of all that most AVR don't do surround emulation or a good job of it, which is another topic altogether from how well of a job they'll do electrically powering the headphones. I'm not sure if you were grasping those differences which is why I suggested reading the first post (expand the spoiler sections etc), if it's too confusing or MLE glosses over some concepts (been a while since I read thru it myself so I forget how it's structured) you can possibly look up some of Evshrug's guide/FAQ threads.

There are certainly some cheaper options than the Mixamp as far as surround emulation goes (DSS, Recon3D etc.), each has it's particular pro/cons... Most of them can easily drive something like the AD700, CAL, or HD558 since they aren't very power hungry headphones.

As far as open headphones goes, if you don't mind hearing the piano in the background and your wife doesn't mind a slight murmur in the background (that's roughly how she'd perceive it, depending on your volume and her piano playing etc) then they'd work.


----------



## Glacial

Hi, I like to play PC games and want a headphone that has good surround effects detail to spot enemy in FPS game. Also if possible I would like the wireless one.
   
  After some browsing I came to this Sennheiser RS 220. Is this headphone good enough to meet my criteria above?
   
  How well (clarity, surround effects, etcs) wireless headphones like RS 220 compared to wired ones say Sennheiser HD 600/ HD 650?
   
  Thx.


----------



## Impulse

You're always gonna pay significantly for the wireless factor, so a wired headphone in the same price range's gonna be better technically than a wireless one... That being said, Senn's RS line are probably the beat wireless options out there.

The 220 are like 50% more expensive than the HD 600 for instance... I've tried a couple of the lower tier models and found them pleasant enough, never gamed with one tho, but it should work. The RF model my uncle has is a bit too noisy to be worth the premium IMO but the newer (and pricier) models have made huge improvements on wireless tech. The 220's at the top of the heap, and voiced like an HD 6x0... It might not be the best gaming headphone one out there (depending on whether it's closer to the 600 or 650) but it's probably better than most other wireless options. There's some rough comments on the line here:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-wireless

What are you using as your source on the PC? (sound card, on-board motherboard audio, etc.) Most of the RS models have RCA inputs but the 220 also has optical so it's pretty flexible in that regard, if you want surround emulation you'd still want a cheap sound card to do it tho (like the DGX).

It's not gonna drive the headphone at all, obviously, so it's just a matter of what it feeds the base station... 

Is your PC hooked up to a TV? I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to go wireless if you're still at a desk but anyway... I've seen some complaints in the Amazon RS 180/170 reviews about a slight latency in the signal, which would be a deal breaker for competitive gaming. No clue about the 220... I think the slight lag is often due to how people hook them up into their HT though (different components can introduce it and they usually notice when the speakers are out of timing with the hp), I've seen similar issues with Bluetooth and I've also seen BT headsets with zero lag.

It'd be a good idea to buy from Amazon or somewhere with a good return policy anyway.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Okay so I got my Sportapros in.
> 
> Headband is terrible, lol. So cheap looking. Pretty comfy though. I still prefer the parts express headband, as its a lot less obtrusive and just as comfy.
> 
> ...


 
  that's good to hear. I want a sporta pro for well working out! As IEMS r a sin in my book <3
   
  also loving the w1000x, after 4 days the head band has burned in lol


----------



## unclerico

Just a quick update on my search for a good audio gaming (xbox360) setup.....
   
  First of all, I want to thank MLE and the other posters in here for their great knowledge and info sharing, it's helped me immensely. I literally didn't know what terms like "sound stage, warm sound, etc.) even meant a few months ago. I was looking for a good setup mainly for fps shooters(cod), in order to hear footsteps and to get immersed into the game. I decided to buy 3 headphones just to test them out for myself (Audio Technica AD700, BD 990 pro, and 2013 Astro A40's/mixamp. I'm not going to go into any in depth review because to be honest MLE's reviews, as well as others, are spot on to my findings. AD700--Great for gaming, but GIGANTIC, and I have a huge head. I just couldn't deal with the loose fit. BD 990 pro---Sounded great, but the clamp is just too damn tight for me, Astro A40's---Overall sounded good, but not nearly the sound stage and positional directionality as the others. The headset was by far the most comfortable, by a landslide. By the way, I used the mixamp to drive all the headsets. I'm very leery of the 2013 Astro setup however. I've read hundreds of horror stories of their bad mics, mixamp failures, and atrocious customer service. Through all of this reading and testing, I've finally learned what characteristics are important to me, as far as a gaming setup and that's due to this site, so "Thank You".
  I'm still going to try a couple more setups since i haven't really hit a home run yet. My next victim will be the AKG Q701's. Does anyone have any advice on what setup I should use with these cans for an Xbox360. I'm assuming that I need a virtual sound device(mixamp, recon, etc) and an amp(fiio e12) power the q701's? If anyone has any specific knowledge on this subject I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
  Once again, thanks very much to this site and MLE!!!


----------



## roguegeek

MLE (or anyone else really), looks like you had comparatively good impressions of the HE-4 and HE-400 for general use. Any new thoughts on the HE-500 for general use and gaming?


----------



## shanek248

Quote: 





impulse said:


> *shanek248*, your receiver may or may not drive low impedance headphones any better than something like the Mixamp, but it wouldn't be a big disparity either way, might not even do that great a job to be honest...
> 
> Truthfully the headphone output of AVRs isn't always the greatest, and even when it is decent it might still have impedance issues with low impedance headphones made to be driven by portable or lower power sources.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Thanks a million. I see what you mean and don`t worry I didn`t take any offence to being told to go back and read. I will go back and take a more careful read because I don`t remember any theory in there!! Clearly I glossed over it! I did my undergrad in electronic engineering so I should be able to catch on .... eventually.
   
  Im not completely focused on getting open headphones since I dont even know what the advantages would be in my case. I only have interest in the ad700s due to the reviews they are getting across the board for my particular needs. The fact that they are open headphones is merely coincidental.  This is all very interesting. Seems I have a lot to learn when it comes to headsets.
   
  I was hoping against the odds I could use my AVR with some magical set of cheap headphones as a great surround solution. It seems this is not to be..   ....lol
   
  I will do some research into the cheaper surround emulation options you suggested but I fear I may have to settle for repairing my trittons.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





unclerico said:


> Just a quick update on my search for a good audio gaming (xbox360) setup.....
> 
> First of all, I want to thank MLE and the other posters in here for their great knowledge and info sharing, it's helped me immensely. I literally didn't know what terms like "sound stage, warm sound, etc.) even meant a few months ago. I was looking for a good setup mainly for fps shooters(cod), in order to hear footsteps and to get immersed into the game. I decided to buy 3 headphones just to test them out for myself (Audio Technica AD700, BD 990 pro, and 2013 Astro A40's/mixamp. I'm not going to go into any in depth review because to be honest MLE's reviews, as well as others, are spot on to my findings. AD700--Great for gaming, but GIGANTIC, and I have a huge head. I just couldn't deal with the loose fit. BD 990 pro---Sounded great, but the clamp is just too damn tight for me, Astro A40's---Overall sounded good, but not nearly the sound stage and positional directionality as the others. The headset was by far the most comfortable, by a landslide. By the way, I used the mixamp to drive all the headsets. I'm very leery of the 2013 Astro setup however. I've read hundreds of horror stories of their bad mics, mixamp failures, and atrocious customer service. Through all of this reading and testing, I've finally learned what characteristics are important to me, as far as a gaming setup and that's due to this site, so "Thank You".
> I'm still going to try a couple more setups since i haven't really hit a home run yet. My next victim will be the AKG Q701's. Does anyone have any advice on what setup I should use with these cans for an Xbox360. I'm assuming that* I need a virtual sound device(mixamp, recon, etc) and an amp(fiio e12) power the q701's*? If anyone has any specific knowledge on this subject I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
> Once again, thanks very much to this site and MLE!!!


 
   
  What have you been running the headphones you already bought off of?  I'm assume your on a console right?
   
  You may not need an amp, but you should get definitely get a surround sound device.  Everything in this thread is based off of use with a surround sound device.
   
  With the Q701s I'd say either a Mixamp or DSS v1.  If you don't need CHAT the DSS is way cheaper and will work fine with the Q701s.


----------



## ruuku

Quote: 





shanek248 said:


> *SNIP*
> I will do some research into the cheaper surround emulation options you suggested but I fear I may have to settle for repairing my trittons.


 
  Which pair of Trittons do you have? 
   
   
  Quote: 





shanek248 said:


> Im not completely focused on getting open headphones since I dont even know what the advantages would be in my case. I only have interest in the ad700s due to the reviews they are getting across the board for my particular needs. The fact that they are open headphones is merely coincidental.


   
  In your case (IE, competitive gaming being the highest priority) an open headphone is the best solution. Open headphones deliver a more open, spacious presentation of the sounds which translates into more soundstage (the amount of distance the sounds can emulate is much wider). This leads to greater positional accuracy, which is key in FPS gaming which have at least some directional audio keys (footsteps, gunshots, callouts, ect) However since they're open (drivers exposed) it also means that there is a lack of isolation.


----------



## Evshrug

Shanek248,
As an EE, the impedance discussion would probably make the most sense to you, but... It may remind you of work, lol.

Virtual Surround processing:
I'd like to clarify one thing: the receiver is an amplifier (and a DAC if your Xbox/PS3 is hooked up to it via HDMI), and the headphone changes analogue signal to sound (yay), but what creates the virtual surround isn't in the headphone (usually), it's in sound processing. Some receivers have some form of virtual surround or simulated surround, I urge you to look in your manual to see if your receiver has a section on that (probably very brief, but still in the index). Virtual surround processing is the secret sauce that creates those forward/backward/directional sound cues in your headphones when fed a 5.1,7.1, or full 3D surround signal. And yes, I have an "article" guide on this in the journal thread linked in my signature, with a few samples that include the processing "baked in" to the sound already so you can hear it with your headphones on. The point of Astro's Mixamp, Creative's Recon3D, Turtle Beach's DSS and DSS2, the base station included with the Tritton AX720, and some receivers (and gaming soundcards in computers) is to do this surround processing. In the US, the cheapest option is a used Turtle Beach "DSS" for around $25 (maybe plus shipping), though if you want easier control of chat volume the Astro "Mixamp" is the most intuitive option and it also has a higher quality amp with less background static noise (almost silent when no audio is played, right Mad?), I bought Creative's "Recon3D USB" for half the price of the Mixamp because it works with consoles but offers full PC support too and has no audible background noise with my AD700.

Open vs Sealed/Closed back headphones:
Closed or sealed headphones are basically like earmuffs with speakers inside. That always produces some degree of resonance, so it becomes harder to produce the subtle sound differences that create the impression of different depths/distances of sound. Some can do that pretty well, but open headphones always have the best models. It's not the biggest difference, but once I heard it and got used to it I became addicted  Of course this works well with surround processing too. There are of course other options than the AD700, but the AD700's big draw is it has the biggest (and most even) soundstage of any headphone below basically $500 USD, and it has high sensitivity so you don't need a high-wattage amp to hear it's full potential. If you get the AD700 (the earcups are about half the size of my head, FYI, though I love 'em), you will hear room noises almost like you weren't wearing anything at all, and to other people your audio will sound like those people who play their iPod earbuds way too loud (though they won't sound too loud to you, it's just they are bigger "speakers" is all). Easy to get used to IMO, also I like knowing when my family gets home or wants to talk to me. The grills are a tint of purple not pink... Listen to the song "Purple Haze" and you'll feel in the mood to rock 'em, but you'll probably leave them at home  Audio Technica also released a refreshed version very recently, the AD700x – I have no idea what they sound like and of course they cost more being new, but I'm curious about them.

Let's see, was there anything else... Oh, I started my undergrad as a student of mechanical engineering, but I failed Calc even though I was doing fine with Physics. Life takes us in funny directions. I work as a shift manager at a restaurant now and do graphic design work on the side.


----------



## chicolom

So, I'm testing the DSS and Mixamp 5.8 again...
   
  I've said this before, but I'm definitively confirming it now:  _The DSS has *LESS hiss *than the Mixamp 5.8 at *higher volumes.*_
   
   
  The DSS still has more hiss at lower volumes, but as you get into the louder volumes they reverse and the DSS has less hiss.  I'm not sure where the exact crossover point is.  It's when the Mixamp's amplifier hiss starts to kick in, past 60% volume or so.
   
  I've got them both running into the M-Stage.  The DSS is at MAX volume, the Mixamp 5.8 is at 2 o'clock 100% game (which is about 80% of it's max) which puts them nearly the same volume level.  The DSS has noticeably less hiss.  When I pause the game I can barely detect it - with Mixamp 5.8 it's easier to hear the faint hiss.
   
  So the DSS still isn't good for things like AD700s and other easily driven hiss-susceptible headphones, but for double amping + harder to drive headphones the DSS will have a quieter noise floor than the mixamp 5.8 - assuming you've got the them both past ~60% volume.  It's true that Mixamp 5.8 gets a little louder overall, but it _really_ gets hissy in that last 20% percent of amping, so I would avoid that area if possible.
   
   
  I'm not sure why the DSS has more hiss at lower volumes but less at louder volumes - something to do with SNR vs amplifier hiss maybe?  I dunno....
   
  It's too bad the Mixamp 5.8 is discontinued, so this information isn't all that useful. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I wonder where the 2013 mixamp falls in terms of noise floor...
   
   
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The Mixamp 5.8 actually hisses louder than the DSS when they both go past >60% volume and beyond.  The DSS never reaches 5.8 at loudest volume hiss, but it doesn't quite reach 5.8 at lowest volume hiss either.
> - The DSS maximum hiss is definitely less than anything past 2 o'clock on the 5.8 at 50/50 balance.
> 
> Makes me wonder if the DSS would be a better preamp than the 5.8 , since its quieter at its louder volumes near the line out levels.


----------



## shanek248

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Which pair of Trittons do you have?


 
   
  I have AX-PROs
   
  Thanks for the help in understanding how open affects me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The hiss embeds itself in the signal, so even if you're not at that 60% volume level where hiss is apparent on the Mixamp, if you double amp high enough to be at a similar decibel level, you'll get the same exact hiss. So I would still max out the Mixamp 5.8 and control volume with the external amp.

The Mixamp 5.8 has a similar hiss as the mixamp 2013. They must use a similar section of internal circuitry that cause the same hiss.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The hiss embeds itself in the signal, so even if you're not at that 60% volume level where hiss is apparent on the Mixamp,* if you double amp high enough to be at a similar decibel level*, you'll get the same exact hiss. So I would still max out the Mixamp 5.8 and control volume with the external amp.
> 
> The Mixamp 5.8 has a similar hiss as the mixamp 2013. They must use a similar section of internal circuitry that cause the same hiss.


 
   
   
  .....I _AM _double amping at a high and similar decibel level, and the DSS has less hiss. 
   
  Quote: 





> Quote:I've got them both running into the M-Stage.  The DSS is at MAX volume, the Mixamp 5.8 is at 2 o'clock 100% game (which is about 80% of it's max) which puts them nearly the same volume level.  The DSS has noticeably less hiss.


 
   
   
  There is a difference between the noise floor hiss (which is what you mean by hiss that gets embedded in the signal) and the hiss introduced by the amplifier gain.
   
  The mixamp has a noisier amplifier while the DSS has a higher noise floor.  At some point, the noise added by increasing the gain on the Mixamp's amplifier becomes greater than the total noise of the DSS's amp gain + noise floor hiss.
   
  Your no longer hearing the noise floor hiss at that point, your hearing the hiss from turning up the amplifier gain too much.
   
   
  All of this noise gets carried over the signal to the next amp, which is why the DSS at the higher volumes is quieter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no, thats not what I'm referring to. I mean that off the same Mixamp, for example...

Mixamp 5.8 at 30% volume = no audible hiss
Mixamp 5.8 at 100% volume = audible hiss
Mixamp 5.8 at 100% volume + external amp at low volume = no audible hiss
Mixamp 5.8 at 30% volume + external amp at high volume = same audible hiss as Mixamp at 100%

Meaning that once you get a loud enough decibel level, regardless of whatever combination of Mixamp/external amp you use, you will get that same audible hiss. Lowering the Mixamp volume won't lower the hiss. All it will do is lower the information being sent to the external amp, effectively making yoj lose detail for no real reason. Unless someone can gauge where the Mixamp's line level is, it's best to max it out, IMHO.

The hiss isn't directly tied to just the Mixamp's volume level, but embedded into the signal, and regardless of how you get there, once you get to a loud enough decibel level (for example 80db), that hiss will come out regardless of whatever combination of volume levels you have on the Mixamp and external amp.

I wasnt directly comparing the DSS, as I haven't really used one.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, no, thats not what I'm referring to. I mean that off the same Mixamp, for example...
> 
> Mixamp 5.8 at 30% volume = no audible hiss
> Mixamp 5.8 at 100% volume = audible hiss
> ...


 
   
   
  Oh, OK.  I see what you're saying.  I misread it.
   
  All I know is, when you set the DSS to MAX volume and then set the mixamp to an equivalent volume (which is about 80% of the mixamp's max) the DSS has less hiss in the signal.  I even tested it with all other equipment turned of (consoles/TVs) so I could get everything dead quiet in order to hear it more clearly.
   
  I don't know all the technical details, but it's there, and you know I'm one of the first to admit if something is probably placebo.  Have I ever lied to you! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It's not like it's a huge difference.  It's just on the DSS I can barely hear the noise - I have to strain myself a little to hear it, while I don't have to as much on the mixamp.  When actually gaming (and not paused), both are complete_ non-issues_ of course.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont doubt it. Less hiss is always a good thing, though I don't find the hiss on any Mixamp problematic, either way. The AX720 however...that thing is quite hissy no matter what I did. Not sure how the newer AX720+ behaves though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ordered the Ultrasone Signature DJ. Looking forward to the bass and so does my loooong Progressive House/Trance Collection. Will post some gaming impressions as well.


----------



## chicolom

I am glad I picked up the DSS again.  I missed it a little. 
   
  The DSS and Anniversaries are a particularly sweet combination. 
   
  For some reason the Mixamp 5.8 has slightly more forward upper mids than the DSS (I've said this before too).  There's also the muddier bass boost (which boosts some of lower mids),  I don't really think either of those things are needed on the Anniversaries.  The DSS ends up making the Anniversaries sounding slightly cleaner and tighter in comparison, which was what I was going for.  Once you dial in some DSS bass boost, they shift towards a more "fun" shaped signature than the mixamp is capable of doing.
   
  The bass is frightening when you crank it up.  I love that clean punchy variable DSS bass boost.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree on the 5.8. It was always slightly more detail focused than neutral. Made more obvious when I got the receiver.


----------



## shanek248

Evshrug
   
  Thank you very much for the detailed response! It helps a lot.
   
  Everything certainly seems a lot clearer and my interest is certainly peaked!
   
  Thanks for the description of Open versus closed. Pretty simple and obvious really.
   
  Im going to look into all the mixamp equivalents you mentioned. What about the tritton amp is it any good? Since I have one... 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Let's see, was there anything else... Oh, I started my undergrad as a student of mechanical engineering, but I failed Calc even though I was doing fine with Physics. Life takes us in funny directions. I work as a shift manager at a restaurant now and do graphic design work on the side.


 
   
  Funny, I did my degree and worked in Japan as an EE for a few years. I then returned to Ireland having lost all love for working in the field. Now my wife and I own a Montessori School and a music school in our local shopping Centre. (Mall?). Complete change of pace but I havent looked back once. So I know what you mean about funny directions.


----------



## calpis

Hey guys, Duck Tales


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> Hey guys, Duck Tales




[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pqYFcSTMxQQ[/VIDEO]

GAME OF THE MOTHERFLIPPING YEAR

Can't wait for the Moon base level. OH GOD NOSTALGIA.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF32DRg9opA[/VIDEO]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Hey guys, Duck Tales


 
   
  LOL, didn't see that coming.
   
  Duck Tales was pretty epic though.  There are a lot worse games you pick to remake.
   
  Who doesn't like pogo-sticking jumping around, smashing things with a cane, and collecting treasure and ice cream?
   
   
  I hope they keep things fairly nostalgic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This and Chip n Dales Rescue Rangers would make my life complete, as far as remaking NES games. I love that they went with sprites look as if they were ripped directly off the cartoon itself. LOVE IT.


----------



## Naingolann

I never do this but...friggin' DAY ONE!!!11!11!


----------



## shanek248

What about Mickey Mouse and Donald Ducks world of illusion?!
   
  What a game!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





shanek248 said:


> What about Mickey Mouse and Donald Ducks world of illusion?!
> 
> What a game!


 
  damn I remember when platforming was THAT hard, q.q I miss them ole platformers!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





calpis said:


> Hey guys, Duck Tales


 
   
  Seriously, some of the most fun I had with my Nintendo was with that game.


----------



## Impulse

Needs more Darkwing Duck IMO... 

Also, wtb PC port!


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Needs more Darkwing Duck IMO...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  also willing to bet there already is a hacked pc upscale some where :3
   
  still... I never knew the NES could look that good :O


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> still... I never knew the NES could look that good :O


 
   
  ...that's because it couldn't


----------



## chicolom

Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."


----------



## Zharay

Hey guys and thanks Envy, your guide is a huge help for me as I get into the world of head-fi.
   
  I'm in need of some sway here as I'm basically torn between the 3 choices below. My budget is looking at around $550 max (less is best!)

 *Q701 *- $290 new ($240 used)
 *A40 *2013 Ed - $250 new
 *DT990 600ohm* - $340 new ($240 used!)
   
  At first I was all for the Q701, but then I came into thinking that the A40's mixamp would be the best price ratio when coupled with its set of cans... and THEN I find the DT990s at a pretty competitive price used. So now I'm stuck on these choices.
   
  Oh and it gets a litter more interesting, as I also would like to get a good amp for one of these as well. Since I'm primarily a PC gamer, I don't think I need to worry too much about virtual surround boxes (be nice to have later on as I do play on my PS3 plenty). My motherboard itself comes with an X-Fi chipset with optical audio output, but I'm still unsure as to how a DAC would fit in all that. Would I need it? Would it be redundant? I also have an old X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatality Ed., but I'm not at all sure as to how well it fairs now (plus I gotta fish it out of the closet and pray my SLI setup won't be messing with its placement).
   
  As for the AMP, I was looking at Schiit's Magni and FiiO's E09K, but it seems they would be better off with their DAC counter parts for that clear sound channel which confuses me further in my choice (and also increases the price overall by another $100 at least).
   
  So my questions are as follows: Given those 3 choices, what best way should I go about getting them properly setup for my PC? Should I go with just the AMP or go for a AMP+DAC combo? Or should I just get an Astro Mixamp + one of the choices above?
   
  Someone help me out of this bind! I'm dying to hear some audio bliss and clarity in my games without bothering my next door neighbors!


----------



## ruuku

shanek248 said:


> I have AX-PROs
> 
> Thanks for the help in understanding how open affects me.


 
  Dang.... If you had the 720s you could have reused the AX Decoder box. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to use the Pro DB with your own headphones because the signal it outputs is 7 channels. 

   
   
  Quote: 





zharay said:


> Oh and it gets a litter more interesting, as I also would like to get a good amp for one of these as well. Since I'm primarily a PC gamer, I don't think I need to worry too much about virtual surround boxes (be nice to have later on as I do play on my PS3 plenty). My motherboard itself comes with an X-Fi chipset with optical audio output, but I'm still unsure as to how a DAC would fit in all that. Would I need it? Would it be redundant? I also have an old X-Fi Xtremegamer Fatality Ed., but I'm not at all sure as to how well it fairs now (plus I gotta fish it out of the closet and pray my SLI setup won't be messing with its placement).
> 
> As for the AMP, I was looking at Schiit's Magni and FiiO's E09K, but it seems they would be better off with their DAC counter parts for that clear sound channel which confuses me further in my choice (and also increases the price overall by another $100 at least).
> 
> So my questions are as follows: Given those 3 choices, what best way should I go about getting them properly setup for my PC? Should I go with just the AMP or go for a AMP+DAC combo? Or should I just get an Astro Mixamp + one of the choices above?


 
   
*[size=medium]Nameless and a few others seem to be the go to guys for PC audio, however since i've got a short post up and running atm I can give some general advice:[/size]*

*[size=medium]The DAC is largely unrelated to gaming, but will make a improvement in music listening. So you'll have to decide if its worth it. [/size]*

*[size=medium]I think one of the main reasons that the Mixamp, DSS, and other external decoders are talked about so often on this thread is the fact that console gamers are at the mercy of the manufacturers when it comes to components. Unlike a PC where we can just go about ripping out or replacing components to better suit our needs/wants. Suffice to say that you might be better served goring for a higher end soundcard, which can act as both the decoder as well as the amp, like the Xonar Essence STX.[/size]*

*[size=medium]If you want cross compatibility between your PC and Mixamp, you'll have to get an external decoder like the mixamp for PS3 purposes. I'm not too sure how well the mixamp pairs with the PC though. You'll also have the added hassle of switching the optical cable when you want to change the source.[/size]*

   
*[size=medium]A year ago I'd have totally recommend ditching the A40s.... but from what I've read (not experienced) the 2013 editions seemed to have upped its game significantly, however, I’d still have to give the DT990s or Q701 (or if you can swing it, the 702 65th)  the higher recommendation. Between the Q701 and the 990, with your decision based only on gaming, your desire's for single player immersion quality vs competitive performance will most likely be a determining factor. [/size]*


----------



## Impulse

You can use the E09k and Magni just fine with any sound card, there's nothing about the latter that makes it particularly optimized for Schiit's own DAC... Other than the fact that they're built in identical cabinets and look cool when stacked. The E09 has a dock for their DACs but it also has regular RCA inputs so, again, you can hook it up and take full advantage of it with any sound card.

A sound card's a DAC (or has a DAC in addition to a few other components), external USB DAC are just a different type of DAC... The easiest/cheapest way to get virtual surround sound for PC is with a sound card, so if your old X-Fi can fit on your mobo with your SLI setup then it's worth digging out, it's probably still better than your mobo's on board audio.

External USB DAC usually don't do virtual surround (with a few exceptions like a Mixamp or a Recon3D)... If you need a new card you can grab something like a Xonar DGX or used Titanium HD for under $60 and pair it with any amp you want. Low budget USB DAC aren't really an improvement on decent sound cards, they're just more portable and/or easier to configure.

The STX is a pretty good value for a very nice sound card and a very competent built in amp, specially if you can find it closer to $160... But going with a cheaper card and an external amp might be preferable if you're thinking of getting a Mixamp later, since you can then pair it with your amp as well.

Those prices for the Q and DT 990 are pretty high btw, where are you located?


----------



## Glacial

Which one is better in terms of audio quality, Sennheiser PC 360 or RS 220? And which input source is better, optic or analog?
   
  Thx.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."


 
  grrrr dang it man don't rub that in lol. I need to buy one of those well I need a place to put mit first, lolI jerry rigged a can stand <3 and it works nice but only one spot left for new cans
  Quote: 





zharay said:


> Hey guys and thanks Envy, your guide is a huge help for me as I get into the world of head-fi.
> 
> I'm in need of some sway here as I'm basically torn between the 3 choices below. My budget is looking at around $550 max (less is best!)
> 
> ...


 
  i'd go for a dac amp combo if this is your first set up, in addition if ur  pc gamer there is another thread that will sooon be recommneded to you, but for pure quality again I'd go dac combo for your pc, it's what I have an I enjoy it, although I'm not a competitve gamer [or not one that needs to hear where ppl r coming from] 
   
  In addition I really dig the dt 990, if you get the Pro 250 ohm version they should b nice n extra cheap <3
   
  And lastly, nice Fooly Cooly avatar :3, we all make that face when we make our first post here xD


----------



## shanek248

Quote: 





ruuku said:


> Dang.... If you had the 720s you could have reused the AX Decoder box. Unfortunately I don't know of a way to use the Pro DB with your own headphones because the signal it outputs is 7 channels.


 
   
  Dang! Are you sure?
   
  I`m sure this sounds super stupid but what do you mean its signal output is 7 channels? The box itself has the standard ports on the front for connecting the AX-Pro headset and three alternative jacks at the back of the box for 5.1 analogue output...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."


 
   
  And this is the type of thinking that will ensure the human race lives on long after the zombie apocalypse.


----------



## Zharay

Thanks for all those helpful replies guys, I'm starting to get somewhere now!
   
  So after reading through some more stuff on top of your replies here is where I stand. I'm definitely going to be getting me a new sound card, it is just coming down to whether I want a X-Fi Titanium HD (better for games and an amp up to 330 ohm) or a Xonar STX (better amp at up to 600 ohm). I can figure that part out as I go along, but for now I'm leaning toward Titanium HD.
   
  As for the headphones...
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Those prices for the Q and DT 990 are pretty high btw, where are you located?


 
   
  I actually didn't know that those prices were considered high. I'm in the US and I've been looking at amazon primarily for base prices. Looking through those I'm seeing the Q701 for around $180 and the DT990 PRO 250 ohm for $160 (premium is $250) on ebay. Looking at almost $100 in savings right there, which makes it easier for me to get me an external amp (sweet 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). 
   


ruuku said:


> *[size=medium]A year ago I'd have totally recommend ditching the A40s.... but from what I've read (not experienced) the 2013 editions seemed to have upped its game significantly, however, I’d still have to give the DT990s or Q701 (or if you can swing it, the 702 65th)  the higher recommendation. Between the Q701 and the 990, with your decision based only on gaming, your desire's for single player immersion quality vs competitive performance will most likely be a determining factor. [/size]*


 
   
  Right, so for me immersion is best. Competitive gaming is an after thought, but I do love me some BF3 and I'm pretty damn good at it. Let's take Tomb Raider as an example as it is what I'm playing right now. The game has some of the best sound design I've heard in an adventure game for a while, so I want to be completely in that kind of environment. It is also very base heavy and getting that nice low frequency hum whenever you use your instincts is fun with my speakers so I want to have that carry over to my next set of cans. And then there is music. I love to listen to melodic metal like Amon Amarth and Insomnium which features a nice set high and lows with some awesome guitar rifts.
   
  So I guess I'm heading more towards the DT990s? Unless there is anything else to look towards (those K702 65th would be so awesome to have if I could get it for under its normal price of $500, but I doubt I will).
   
  As for the external amp, I'm going to go with the Schiit Magni. Later on in the year I'll worry about my PS3 and get it a Mixamp or similar.
   
  Any other suggestions or things I should look out for? I'm still very open for suggestions as long as its reasonable.
   
   
  Quote: 





mshenay said:


> And lastly, nice Fooly Cooly avatar :3, we all make that face when we make our first post here xD


 
   
  Hehe thanks. Its literally the face I usually make for just about any situation really


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





zharay said:


> Right, so for me immersion is best. Competitive gaming is an after thought, but I do love me some BF3 and I'm pretty damn good at it. Let's take Tomb Raider as an example as it is what I'm playing right now. The game has some of the best sound design I've heard in an adventure game for a while, so I want to be completely in that kind of environment. It is also very base heavy and getting that nice low frequency hum whenever you use your instincts is fun with my speakers so I want to have that carry over to my next set of cans. And then there is music. I love to listen to melodic metal like Amon Amarth and Insomnium which features a nice set high and lows with some awesome guitar rifts.
> 
> So I guess I'm heading more towards the DT990s? Unless there is anything else to look towards (those K702 65th would be so awesome to have if I could get it for under its normal price of $500, but I doubt I will).
> 
> ...


 
  yup, your on the right track my friend! Pretty soon you'l have 4 cans and 3 amps sitting on ur desk like a good portion of us do <3 [which reminds me it's time to switch back into the Hybrid tube! 
   
  but I love teh dt 990 [although I like it STRICLY for edm as I think it has to much bass] still though it is very balanced! I just have a thing about non linear bass in non edm music <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, what Grados are those? The CAL is always classy. Can't hate the shiny piano black, ever.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





glacial said:


> Which one is better in terms of audio quality, Sennheiser PC 360 or RS 220? And which input source is better, optic or analog?
> 
> Thx.


 
   
  Of the headphones, the PC 360 hands down. The RS 220 is more focused towards convenience than sound quality. I purchased them for my father to use on his TV. They sound nice, but not ace nice as the the sound quality you get with the 360s. As for the source feed, it honestly depends on your preference and the setup you have. Some people love analog over digital, some feel the other way. In some setups you can't use one or the other. So that's a weighted question.


----------



## Impulse

zharay said:


> Thanks for all those helpful replies guys, I'm starting to get somewhere now!
> 
> So after reading through some more stuff on top of your replies here is where I stand. I'm definitely going to be getting me a new sound card, it is just coming down to whether I want a X-Fi Titanium HD (better for games and an amp up to 330 ohm) or a Xonar STX (better amp at up to 600 ohm). I can figure that part out as I go along, but for now I'm leaning toward Titanium HD.
> 
> ...




The Titanium HD doesn't have a dedicated amp like the STX or even cheaper ASUS Xonar cards do, that spec about 300 ohm headphones is kind of misleading (it really wouldn't drive most high impedance headphones very well, or the Q701 for that matter). It's not really any better with games either unless you're playing older games that still used EAX (like 5+ years old), which is now deprecated (but still supported by the Ti HD, the STX claims some level of EAX emulation but it's buggy and worthless).

That being said, if you're getting an external amp then you should just opt for the Titanium HD because it should be cheaper and it's DAC and surround emulation are pretty much on par with the STX... Your choice should really be Ti HD + Magni vs STX by itself IMO, specially for the kind of headphone you're looking at. Depending on current deals you'd probably spend about the same either way, but as I said earlier, if you plan to get a Mixamp later then getting the cheaper Ti HD plus an amp that you can actually use with the Mixamp (like the Magni) might be wiser...

One practical thing the STX does have going for it tho is that you can switch between speakers and headphones in software (which controls a mechanical relay, just like inputs are switched on a receiver)... The Ti HD just mutes the speaker outputs the second you plug in headphones and doesn't let you switch from the OS, newer Creative Z cards do.

Prices for those older model headphones on Amazon fluctuate like crazy btw. You should check out www.camelcamelcamel.com to look at pricing history for any item on Amazon or even set up price alerts... It's not uncommon for $350 Beyers and AKG to drop $100 randomly (or particularly during Thanksgiving, one of the few things out there that still sees big holiday discounts). The Premium Beyers are usually a little more expensive but I think I've seen the DT 990 Pro drop under $200 pretty often at Amazon.

I'm usually more comfortable buying things like headphones from Amazon or other authorized retailers (or even Amazon merchants) since it's much easier to deal with them for returns/exchanges. Razordogaudio has decent prices on Beyers and AKGs at the moment once you use one of the $50-100 instant discounts they have on the site.


----------



## Makiah S

question what exactly is gain, my new matrix sounds pertty terrible when I have the gain above  0 [when using my w1000x]
   
  where as the dt 880 sounds great at 20db gain
   
  in addition the w1000x is 48 ohms or something the 350 around 250 ohms


----------



## Impulse

The way I understand it, gain's a measurement that represents the ratio of incoming to outgoing signal strength (not the same thing as volume). Thus, more sensitive or easier to drive headphones work better with lower gain and vice versa. So yeah, you're using it properly.


----------



## Zharay

Quote:


impulse said:


> Prices for those older model headphones on Amazon fluctuate like crazy btw. You should check out www.camelcamelcamel.com to look at pricing history for any item on Amazon or even set up price alerts... It's not uncommon for $350 Beyers and AKG to drop $100 randomly (or particularly during Thanksgiving, one of the few things out there that still sees big holiday discounts). The Premium Beyers are usually a little more expensive but I think I've seen the DT 990 Pro drop under $200 pretty often at Amazon.
> 
> I'm usually more comfortable buying things like headphones from Amazon or other authorized retailers (or even Amazon merchants) since it's much easier to deal with them for returns/exchanges. Razordogaudio has decent prices on Beyers and AKGs at the moment once you use one of the $50-100 instant discounts they have on the site.


 
  Thanks for linking me those sites, especially the camelx3 one, going to be using this from now on when I look into prices. I'd go for Razordogaudio, but they are currently out of business until April 1st and I'd rather have my gear in hand by then.
   
  On the flip side I've hunkered down and bought my stuff. Ended up with the X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni, and the DT990 250 ohm Premiums. The reason I went with the Premium over the Pro was due to two things: I really didn't like the idea of having that extra clamp despite the extra bass and smaller soundstage. The Premiums seem to be a much better fit for my larger head and I don't want to feel that pressure on my ears for long term use. The other reason is that I managed to find a decent price on them. Someone posted up a $250 set that was hardly used at all so I snatched it up. I did find $160 PROs that I could of gotten, but I won't be buying me another set for a while.
   
  So in all I think I've spent $470 or so, bring it just under my $500 limit I had placed on myself. Can't wait to get my gear next week! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   


mshenay said:


> yup, your on the right track my friend! Pretty soon you'l have 4 cans and 3 amps sitting on ur desk like a good portion of us do <3 [which reminds me it's time to switch back into the Hybrid tube!


 
  Haha yea this is where it starts. Now that I got a great job, I'm probably going to end up with a full multi-headphone stand mislabeled as a "mug holder"


----------



## Impulse

Sweet man, let us know how you like your new setup. Premium version also looks much sleeker IMO...  The grey forks and more modem grill design just look better. Anyway, the clamp's something you could alter by stretching them, but the Pro's coiled cable is harder to live with or replace.

Not everyone ends up with a mug holder btw... Some of us just have multiple stands.  In all seriousness tho, I've got two and I don't see myself owning more than two full size headphones at any given time... But then again, I have several pairs of IEMs, a couple of clip ons, and two on-ear portables.


----------



## Evshrug

shanek248 said:


> Evshrug
> 
> Thank you very much for the detailed response! It helps a lot.
> 
> ...



Tritton's processing unit is (afaik) only available in an AX720 headphone bundle, and it's nothing special really. It uses Dolby Headphone, just like the Turtle Beach DSS and Mixamp, but besides the processing, the amp has noise performance below the others. Your Trittons (made by Mad Catz) has the processing built-in in such a way that other headphones can't take advantage of it. By the way, did you read my "article?" One other thing I pointed out was that the headphones like your AX Pros have multiple drivers in the headset to perform surround... Maybe you're used to that by now, but usually each driver isn't as good as a regular one in a stereo headphone, and I talk about why/how 2 headphone speakers can produce surround from any direction... Not just directions corresponding to a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker surround setup, although _console _games are limited to filtering directional cues through 5.1/7.1 channels. Creative's soundcards for PC (and a few software options) have processing designed from the ground up for headphones and games that can mathematically calculate a sound coming from any direction or elevation. That's the main draw of Creative sound cards, not the EAX that Impulse mentioned (which creates environment sounds, like reverb that sounds like it's coming from inside a cave or grand opera hall). To this day, games are being made that take advantage of the full, 3D sphere of surround, but they're only found on PC, and it's not guaranteed to be included in every AAA game anymore either. But, like PhysX or Tesselation, it's cool when it is there.


----------



## Impulse

I didn't say EAX was a reason to go with a Creative card, just for the record, said the opposite actually... And CMSS-3D (Creative) may be more advanced than Dolby Headphone (what most everyone else uses), technically speaking, but ultimate it's a subjective thing. Some people prefer one or the other, some are indifferent... 

Personally I didn't miss much going to DH (old X-Fi to STX) but I never A/B'd them either and I don't even use it for every game, so YMMV. Ultimately both are based on an HRTF (averaged model) so results are gonna vary from one individual to the next. I think most people would be happy with either tbh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1

Look at that frequency response! This looks like the better alternative to the DT990!

Ive wanted a headphone like that for AGES. What sucks, the headband is undoubtedly going to be too small for my head, and then there's the fact that they still aren't in stock.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, what Grados are those? The CAL is always classy. Can't hate the shiny piano black, ever.


 
   
  SR80i.  There my bros, I just borrowed them for the picture.


----------



## Evshrug

impulse said:


> I didn't say EAX was a reason to go with a Creative card, just for the record, said the opposite actually... And CMSS-3D (Creative) may be more advanced than Dolby Headphone (what most everyone else uses), technically speaking, but ultimate it's a subjective thing. Some people prefer one or the other, some are indifferent...
> 
> Personally I didn't miss much going to DH (old X-Fi to STX) but I never A/B'd them either and I don't even use it for every game, so YMMV. Ultimately both are based on an HRTF (averaged model) so results are gonna vary from one individual to the next. I think most people would be happy with either tbh.



Wasn't trying to discredit you man. And yeah, I say all the time that one method of processing will have varying levels of effectiveness per person. However, you did mention EAX, and you mentioned a "technically good but dead/outdated feature of Creative cards" without specifying what that was. I linked the two, cuz I agree EAX is kinda "meh" and kinda been left behind, but i wanted to point out 3D surround isn't completely dead, I've been finding new games occasionally that offer it through one method or another. Nameless is still the expert. In a run-'n-gun FPS like CoD, 5.1 surround is usually fine and 3D audio doesn't provide a benefit, but sometimes it helps to hear above and below you too. 3D Audio > 5.1/7.1 home theater surround > stereo > mono, they're all different levels of performance, sure you could play and probably be pretty competitive with mono audio, but... it's still worth saying "I want the best" so that the option is offered more often. I wouldn't mind if Creative wasn't the main supporter, they don't seem to be doing a very good job of marketing it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

quick impressions of the Ultrasone Signature DJ 
   
  At first - Dat Bass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There's a subwoofer in my head and it's quite powerful without bleeding or farting. There's no distortion, they are built for ultra hard hitting bass. I refrain from listening to boosted levels though, it's not very healthy. For a short time I tested boosting some db in the bass region to see how the drivers handle (no extreme settings of course) and there was no single distortion. Jesus, it's a torture weapon.
   
  Those who are familiar with Ultrasones know about their highs. Those days are over now  as Ultrasone switched their drivers and abandoned titanium for good.
  Sound generally is U shaped with smooth highs and best mids of any Ultrasone Model (after Signature Pro which gives just a bit more clarity while having noticably less bass). If you have experiences with Pro 900 and Pro 2900, forget them totally. Those metallic voices are gone. In total these headphones are superior which of course should be expected for its price. 
   
  There's clamp but it wears better than the Pro 2900 which would pressure on the top of my head after some time. None of this happens here. These headphones look quite "different" but that is upon you to decide. They obviously don't aim for the boutique look or built yet they are most likely the most robust headphones you can buy.
   
  Soundstage is noticably bigger than DT770 LE AE 32 Ohms (which is already quit decent for a closed), it doesn't compare with the HD 800, but then - which headphones do? Haven't played a lot yet, just a few rounds of BF3 on PC and Infamous on PS3 with the Mixamp. BF3 as usual doesn't impress with accuracy but has good recorded samples. Explosions from the distance are rendered deep and low, adding well to the immersion. Haven't played much for now, will do tomorrow.
   
  I expect these headphones to be more for the immersive gamers than those who are competitive and need to hear every footstep through explosions. The former will be in for a nice treat as the experience is very cineastic with the Signature DJ having quite the subwoofer bass.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1
> 
> Look at that frequency response! This looks like the better alternative to the DT990!
> 
> Ive wanted a headphone like that for AGES. What sucks, the headband is undoubtedly going to be too small for my head, and then there's the fact that they still aren't in stock.


 
   
   
  Nice!
   
  I checked out the review, and I'm happy to see the frequency response is impressively linear and doesn't suck out the mids or have a bunch holes.  So they don't sacrifice mids to get their fun sound (unlike most "fun" headphones).  They have impressive bass, are tilted towards warm, and they still have air up top (but not too much - not excessive like DT990) and sound spacious with good imaging.  Who needs a closed headphone when you can get all that < !!
   
  Sounds like my kind of bassy/fun headphone.  
   
  They also look very comfortable and classy as hell.
   
   
  When are they getting in stock?  I want to hear them.





   
   
_- "A big-bass headphone with good dynamics, and even response across the board with airy spaciousness. Bloody amazing!"_
   
_- "The Philips Fidelio X1 has the uncanny ability to be both a big bass headphone and deliver an airy spacious sound. I've simply never heard that before in a headphone, and now that I have, I'm hooked. Yup, these are going on the Wall of Fame as the best open basshead headphones I've heard to date."_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-Signature-DJ-Headphones/dp/B009U5IALW/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1364098105&sr=1-14&keywords=ultrasone+dj

Fege, I lol'd at the product description. Hahahaha.


Yeah, I'm gonna hold out to get the X1, and if I have to return them, well Amazon can blame Philips for not accommodating larger heads. I absolutely must attempt to make them work, as that is basically all I've ever wanted. A perfected alternative to the 990 with smoother highs and better mids. Sounds like a nice compliment to my LCD2.


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Wasn't trying to discredit you man. And yeah, I say all the time that one method of processing will have varying levels of effectiveness per person. However, you did mention EAX, and you mentioned a "technically good but dead/outdated feature of Creative cards" without specifying what that was. I linked the two, cuz I agree EAX is kinda "meh" and kinda been left behind, but i wanted to point out 3D surround isn't completely dead, I've been finding new games occasionally that offer it through one method or another. Nameless is still the expert. In a run-'n-gun FPS like CoD, 5.1 surround is usually fine and 3D audio doesn't provide a benefit, but sometimes it helps to hear above and below you too. 3D Audio > 5.1/7.1 home theater surround > stereo > mono, they're all different levels of performance, sure you could play and probably be pretty competitive with mono audio, but... it's still worth saying "I want the best" so that the option is offered more often. I wouldn't mind if Creative wasn't the main supporter, they don't seem to be doing a very good job of marketing it.




Nah, what I was alluding to, if it wasn't clear, is that people (specially on PC forums) often say Creative cards are better for gaming based on old stereotypes from half a dozen years ago when nearly every other game had some level of EAX support so you pretty much had to have a Creative card for PC gaming if you wanted to listen to what the developers intended.

EAX went the way of the dodo tho, along with Direct3D hardware acceleration for sound effects... So now there's really nothing particularly special that makes X-Fi cards all around better for games than any of the Xonar/Essence/Phoebus cards (or Creative's own Z line, which is newer, those aren't even using CMSS-3D anymore I think?)... Just comes down to personal preference between DH, CMSS, or whatever.

Games that do their own software rendering for 3D audio would work equally well with either card I think no? I guess it gets kinda convoluted when you mix both things, not as as standardized as consoles, obviously... That's the entire point of PC gaming tho.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1
> 
> Look at that frequency response! This looks like the better alternative to the DT990!
> 
> Ive wanted a headphone like that for AGES. What sucks, the headband is undoubtedly going to be too small for my head, and then there's the fact that they still aren't in stock.




Pretty impressive showing indeed, Tyll liked them better than I thought he would... The FR kinda tells the whole story tho. I really wanna try them now and see how they do for gaming, given the spacious nature he pinned to them.

My only fear is that I'll be too used to the brighter and more neutral DT 880, and I also wanna try the Mad Dogs which are also closer to neutral I think... Guess I'll just have to keep them for a while and resale. Gonna have to rethink my setup if I end up keeping the X1 for my desk, ugh... The STX's 10 ohm output impedance is too high for them. I was actually gonna get an amp for the living room, didn't wanna have to get one for my desk/PC.

I guess either the Beyer (250) or Mad Dogs might be fine off my AVR tho, but then I'll have to get something with pre-amp outs for the desk, blah. (Asgard 2?)


----------



## Fegefeuer

lol@that description 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I have a big head and the X1 was no problem for me, I don't have a problem with the PC360 either. K701, Q701 however pierced me from above.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Asgard 2 would be what I'd get for anything that wasn't planar magnetic and I didnt own my Compass 2.

I'm fairly certain the X1 will be brighter than the Mad Dogs...


----------



## Impulse

What's wrong with the Asgard 2 for planars? I'll accept a PM if it's too OT here... 

Truthfully I was just aiming for something cheaper for my living room, like the Magni, guess I'll figure it out once I give both headphones a go. Probably getting the Magni either way to have a decent reference that isn't my STX (with it's 10 ohm z-out) or my AVR (which I haven't compared to much).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Planars can handle a bunch of power. The Asgard 2 tops out at just over 1 watt, while planars can handle many times more than that. Not that its bad, but for planars, I'd wanna top them out as much as I could. For example, A-GD amps give planars at least twice that. But the Asgard is comparable at higher impedances, so it's good for everything else.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Nah, what I was alluding to, if it wasn't clear, is that people (specially on PC forums) often say Creative cards are better for gaming based on old stereotypes from half a dozen years ago when nearly every other game had some level of EAX support so you pretty much had to have a Creative card for PC gaming if you wanted to listen to what the developers intended.
> 
> EAX went the way of the dodo tho, along with Direct3D hardware acceleration for sound effects... So now there's really nothing particularly special that makes X-Fi cards all around better for games than any of the Xonar/Essence/Phoebus cards (or Creative's own Z line, which is newer, those aren't even using CMSS-3D anymore I think?)... Just comes down to personal preference between DH, CMSS, or whatever.
> 
> Games that do their own software rendering for 3D audio would work equally well with either card I think no? I guess it gets kinda convoluted when you mix both things, not as as standardized as consoles, obviously... That's the entire point of PC gaming tho.


 
   
  If only OpenAL remained the standard for PC games...EFX effects that work with any audio device instead of just EAX, and the choice to use either the hardware OpenAL renderer with proper X-Fi cards or a capable software one like Rapture3D that works regardless of what audio device you have. Microsoft can't kill it off, either, since it's OS-independent.
   
  But alas, that's not how it turned out...nowadays, you'd be lucky to find a game that even supports OpenAL, and even out of those, some titles like Amnesia: The Dark Descent and Borderlands 2 don't exactly make it straightforward to enable.
   
  As you know by now, I do place a bit more emphasis on classic PC gaming than most people...to the point of building a retrogaming desktop with THREE sound cards in it. (Four if I ever get my hands on a Roland MT-32 or one of its deriatives.) One for DOS (AWE32/AWE64 Gold), one for Win9x-era games with A3D 2.0 and 3.0 support (Montego II), and of course, one for WinXP and everything DS3D and OAL with EAX (X-Fi Prelude). All that because my main desktop in its Win7 64-bit, quad-core, DX10 glory does NOT play nice with certain old games, or is forced to run them with certain features missing that depend on very specific hardware. Not even the X-Fi is the end-all be-all of retro PC gaming compatibility, funny as that may seem.
   
  I also find the MIDI synthesizer with SoundFont support that the X-Fi cards boast of value, seeing as it saves me from having to fiddle with BASSMIDI or anything else to make those DOS-era classics sound really nice. Not all Doom/Rise of the Triad/Descent/Duke Nukem 3D/etc. source ports let me load whatever MIDI samples I desire, or play nice with BASSMIDI.
   
  And of course, there's the fact that the Sound Core3D products only offer THX TruStudio/SBX Pro Surround, which still doesn't compare to CMSS-3D Headphone for me, not even for software-mixed sources.
   
  In the end, though, that makes for two selling points that only apply to older PC games, and one more that's highly YMMV.
   
  Finally, the one selling point most of the rival cards have over the X-Fi Titanium HD-that FiiO E9-esque headphone amp IC-just happens to be the one that's completely and utterly pointless to anyone running Stax or other electrostatics. Still didn't sound bad at all with the HE-400 connected to the headphone-out, proper headphone amp circuit or not, but perhaps orthodynamics are more tolerant of higher output impedances in general.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

STAX SR-407 w/ SRM-252S Amp + HeadAmp Pico USB DAC

Gonna get all this on loan for a few days in the next coming weeks.


----------



## Evshrug

Woah, when did I become a Headphoneus Supremus? Last I checked, I was just +1,000 posts.
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Nah, what I was alluding to, if it wasn't clear, is that people (specially on PC forums) often say Creative cards are better for gaming based on old stereotypes from half a dozen years ago when nearly every other game had some level of EAX support so you pretty much had to have a Creative card for PC gaming if you wanted to listen to what the developers intended.
> 
> EAX went the way of the dodo tho, along with Direct3D hardware acceleration for sound effects... So now there's really nothing particularly special that makes X-Fi cards all around better for games than any of the Xonar/Essence/Phoebus cards (or Creative's own Z line, which is newer, those aren't even using CMSS-3D anymore I think?)... Just comes down to personal preference between DH, CMSS, or whatever.
> 
> Games that do their own software rendering for 3D audio would work equally well with either card I think no? I guess it gets kinda convoluted when you mix both things, not as as standardized as consoles, obviously... That's the entire point of PC gaming tho.


 
  Correct, Creatives new cards use SBX Pro Studio instead of CMSS-3D. Direct3D may be gone, but that isn't the only option for providing 3D positional data for sound, and new games still use OpenAL, FMOD, and other ones I'm learning about. Dolby Headphone will always be limited to 2D "circle of speakers" surround rather than a sphere, unless the game itself is "double-processing" surround (kinda like double-amping). But yeah, if CMSS-3D or SBX (or THX) don't sound "right" or surround to a person's ears, that person should look elsewhere.
   
  I personally don't care about EAX


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure it's 1500 posts.


----------



## Evshrug

On another note, I actually am finally putting my AD700 up for sale. I actually put it up as a complete bundle with the Recon3D, so somebody can have all the stuff they need for an awesome surround gaming experience cheaper than buying a new Mixamp by itself. I also FINALLY did something I kept forgetting and putting off for years... take a white-balanced photo of the AD700. There are so many variations in google images of the AD700's tint of color on it's grills - it's really a light purple, but I didn't exactly know looking online because in some photos it looked pink or a darker purple. I kinda wish I had white paper underneath it and I'd taken the picture in overcast sunlight... but sometimes you just gotta finish.





Also, the Recon3D definitely has a TRON feeling to it, yeah?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What are you replacing the Recon with?


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I may be moving very soon, now that I have income, so I'll have space for a Marantz receiver (like yours). I also hope to pick up a sound card for my PC. So, I won't have the convenience of an all-in-one, but I don't/won't have the same space and financial limits I had last summer.

Also, in reference to the Ultrasone Signature DJ, the product description makes me think of this meme:


----------



## Glacial

Hi, I've just bought Sennheiser RS 220 and I need help regarding to optical input.
   
  I'm using PC with Asus Xonar D2X soundcard. First I connect the analog cable and the RS 220 sound just fine.
   
  Then I connect using optical cable from the soundcard but the RS 220 wont work. The output is from SPDIF Out (using adapter), and the input is RS 220's Optical In. I've set the soundcard to SPDIF output and RS 220 to optical feed, but still no sound. Weird thing is when I connect the optical cable, using exact setting, to my Logitech Z5500D speaker its working fine.
   
  Where I had done wrong? Is it because my soundcard have no native optical output? Unfortunately I have no other rig with optical output to test with.
   
  Thx.


----------



## DocNinja

Hey all

I have the Tritton AX 720's and I think it's time for an upgrade (besides the fact they're falling apart heh). I read Mad Lust Envy's guide and decided to pick up the Koss KSC75's (for all around usage), to save up for the Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO's, and get the a antlion or that $3 mic listed in the guide. I know those aren't the creme of the crop headphones but I'm sure I'll catch upgrade-itis eventually.

My problem now is I'm having trouble deciding if I can/should use the decoder from the AX 720's and get a sound card for my PC or should I get something like the FiiO E17 USB DAC headphone amplifier so I could use it on my consoles and PC interchangeably.

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Evshrug

Glacial,
  I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.
   
  DocNinja,
  Nothing wrong with starting with a more moderate buy than going all-out before you even know which direction "out" is. The brave little Koss is a great place to start. The thing about the E17, it's two components in one - an amp, and a DAC. You can use the amp on both sources, but you can't use the DAC for surround with a console. The E17 also wouldn't do surround processing for your PC either, it's a stereo-input device. If you want surround, you'll need: surround input ---> stereo output (with virtual surround baked in). That's what your AX720's base station does.


----------



## Impulse

namelesspfg said:


> If only OpenAL remained the standard for PC games...EFX effects that work with any audio device instead of just EAX, and the choice to use either the hardware OpenAL renderer with proper X-Fi cards or a capable software one like Rapture3D that works regardless of what audio device you have. Microsoft can't kill it off, either, since it's OS-independent.
> 
> But alas, that's not how it turned out...nowadays, you'd be lucky to find a game that even supports OpenAL, and even out of those, some titles like Amnesia: The Dark Descent and Borderlands 2 don't exactly make it straightforward to enable.
> 
> ...




Yeah, AFAIK orthos have a completely flat impedance curve that shouldn't interact with a high output impedance... (only relatively high in the STX's case, not like it's an OTL) I think I read somewhere the amp component on the E9/STX started out life as part of hardware used on DSL lines? Heh...

I'm into retro gaming, I just don't have the time or dedication to build rigs exclusively for it... If it hasn't been re-released on Steam or I can't get it working on Virtualbox I give up.  At least I've gotten some of the old school Lucasart adventure games working.  I'm jealous of the rigs you've got going tho! I'm petty sure I've got an old Diamond Monster 3D card gathering dust somewhere, can't remember if it was the original one or the MX300 tho. Is that thing of any use to ya? 

Hell I'm petty sure I have an AWE32 too but my 486 has to be absolutely buried in storage, dunno why I even kept it there.




evshrug said:


> Correct, Creatives new cards use SBX Pro Studio instead of CMSS-3D. Direct3D may be gone, but that isn't the only option for providing 3D positional data for sound, and new games still use OpenAL, FMOD, and other ones I'm learning about. Dolby Headphone will always be limited to 2D "circle of speakers" surround rather than a sphere, unless the game itself is "double-processing" surround (kinda like double-amping). But yeah, if CMSS-3D or SBX (or THX) don't sound "right" or surround to a person's ears, that person should look elsewhere.




See, now that's the part I'm fuzzy on... Sheer ignorance on my part, just haven't looked into it tbh. I've always just enabled/disabled CMSS/DH on a whim depending on what I heard. Maybe Nameless can shed some light here, although maybe we should take this to his PC thread (I really gotta sub to it), but... 

If a game's* doing it's own surround processing in software and you enable DH or CMSS, what happens? Are the latter working atop the former? Should the latter not be used in certain situations? Is it different between the two depending on the game engine/processing? (DH/CMSS)
*talking strictly modem games here


Edit: BTW, according to Nameless' guide the current versions of FMOD don't do OpenAl passthrough... Are there any modern/future titles actually still doing native OpenAl out there? I would think with Creative abandoning CMSS-3D that would provide little incentive for anyone to actually push 3D positional data forward...

Doesn't that mean we're pretty much limited to virtual 5.1 from here on out? Or are some new games providing true 3D surround emulation entirely in software? (but again, how does that interact with DH/CMSS?) Color me thoroughly confused...

Gonna link to this post on Nameless' thread since it's more on point...


----------



## Glacial

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Glacial,
> I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.


 
   
  Thank you for the help. Anyone else have any solution to my problem?
   
  Btw, how can I check that it is because my soundcard doesnt compatible with the RS 220, and not that my RS 220 has defects? I do not have another soundcard or rig or hometheatre etc


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> Glacial,
> I don't know enough about the RS 220... but I'm thinking that you are sending a 5.1 DDL signal to your headphones, and the headphones only understand stereo input. You probably ought to connect the RS 220 to the analogue output of your sound card with the headphone surround processing enabled, or see if the card can process the virtual surround (into 2 channels for your headphones) and then pipe out the 2 channel processed signal to the headphones.




Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of too, the card probably defaults to DDL when using optical (the assumption being that you're sending it to a receiver). *Glacial*, try gong into the settings and switching it to PCM output (2-channel), AFAIK the RS220 base station doesn't do an surround signal decoding so it's just gonna balk when fed one.

You may still be able to use surround processing (Dolby Headphone) regardless... I'm just not sure how it's currently working on the D2X, on earlier driver versions of my STX the software wouldn't allow you to enable DH on any output but the dedicated headphone output, later on they changed it so it even works over optical tho. I think the cards all share a common driver base so it's probably the same for you.

If you can't enable DH once you've got the optical output working I don't think it's a big deal, for all you know the card's DAC might be better than the RS220's base station so going analog wouldn't be a downgrade... Though I guess it means sending the signal thru more processing which you generally try.to avoid.




docninja said:


> My problem now is I'm having trouble deciding if I can/should use the decoder from the AX 720's and get a sound card for my PC or should I get something like the FiiO E17 USB DAC headphone amplifier so I could use it on my consoles and PC interchangeably.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.




Like, Evshrug alluded to, it's a matter of priorities... What are you most concerned with: PC gaming, console gaming, or music? Snobbery aside, the E17 isn't any better of a DAC than a decent sound card, better amp possibly (better than most cards, not better than an STX's/Creative Zx's amp tho). You seem to be in a similar situation as Ziharay a couple of dozen posts up... 

The E17 is a nice* portable* DAC/amp, but it doesn't sound like that's a big concern for you... (correct me if I'm wrong) Depending on your budget, and if you care equally about PC/console gaming, I think you might be etter off getting a cheap ($50-60) sound card plus a much better desk amp ($100) for just a couple more bucks than the E17 alone. It covers all the bases and sets you up for a while (possibly for good, or a good long while), that is assuming you don't mind hanging in with the AX720 base for now.

Take a look at the E09k or Magni, they're not any harder to move between your PC and console unless they aren't in the same house (heck you can get an extra wall wart for the Magni for like $10). As for a sound card, a Xonar DGX will get you DH and paired with an external amp it'll sound as good as any complete solution south of $300.

The point is you end up with pieces that work well with each other, if you want an expensive DAC later for music playback on the PC you can get one, pair it with your amp, and switch between it and the DGX (for gaming). Or even get one with optical input and feed it the DGX's output. If you wanna upgrade the AX720 base later for a DSS or a Mixamp you can just drop it in and pair it with your amp... Not that you couldn't do that with the E17, but you'd end up paying for an inferior amp and a DAC you might not use much in the long run.

If PC gaming isn't a priority, well, I wrote a lot of nonsense you can ignore...  Altho I'd still go for something like the E09/Magni, tho maybe you would want to get a DSS or something like that before getting a DAC for the PC for music duties (E07 maybe, don't need to shoot higher if you have the E09).


----------



## Glacial

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of too, the card probably defaults to DDL when using optical (the assumption being that you're sending it to a receiver). *Glacial*, try gong into the settings and switching it to PCM output (2-channel), AFAIK the RS220 base station doesn't do an surround signal decoding so it's just gonna balk when fed one.
> 
> You may still be able to use surround processing (Dolby Headphone) regardless... I'm just not sure how it's currently working on the D2X, on earlier driver versions of my STX the software wouldn't allow you to enable DH on any output but the dedicated headphone output, later on they changed it so it even works over optical tho. I think the cards all share a common driver base so it's probably the same for you.
> 
> If you can't enable DH once you've got the optical output working I don't think it's a big deal, for all you know the card's DAC might be better than the RS220's base station so going analog wouldn't be a downgrade... Though I guess it means sending the signal thru more processing which you generally try.to avoid.


 
   
  Hmmm I still cant get optical working. But I'm now pretty sure it is because DDL thing since you and Evshrug said the same, not because my RS 220 has defect.
   
  Thx.


----------



## Impulse

Did you find a setting to change the optical output from DDL to uncompressed/stereo PCM?


----------



## Glacial

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Did you find a setting to change the optical output from DDL to uncompressed/stereo PCM?


 
   
  No, I cant find it.
   
  Here is my SS:
   





   
http://tinypic.com/r/wrxhk/6
   
  In PCM setting, theres no DDL.


----------



## Glacial

Finally! Problem Solved!
   
  Looks like I choose wrong sample rate 
   
  So stupid... newb mistakes.... 
   
  Sorry for all the fuss. And Thx.


----------



## Simcon

I have been reading and following this thread for quite some time, and after reading a lot of good about the dt990 pro 250 ohms they've really grown at me and I'm thinking about buying one... But before I do, is £121.49 a good price for them? (Current price on amazon.co.uk, really haven't been more than 1£ lower, so almost the lowest price the've been) Would there be anything better I could get for that price? It's the overall experience and enjoyment I'm after with the headphone I'm going to buy, not only the competitive aspect of the headphone. Also lowering the bass slightly while gaming, would that improve their performance?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-Headset-250/dp/B0011UB9CQ?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





zharay said:


> Thanks for linking me those sites, especially the camelx3 one, going to be using this from now on when I look into prices. I'd go for Razordogaudio, but they are currently out of business until April 1st and I'd rather have my gear in hand by then.
> 
> On the flip side I've hunkered down and bought my stuff. Ended up with the X-Fi Titanium HD, Schiit Magni, and the DT990 250 ohm Premiums. The reason I went with the Premium over the Pro was due to two things: I really didn't like the idea of having that extra clamp despite the extra bass and smaller soundstage. The Premiums seem to be a much better fit for my larger head and I don't want to feel that pressure on my ears for long term use. The other reason is that I managed to find a decent price on them. Someone posted up a $250 set that was hardly used at all so I snatched it up. I did find $160 PROs that I could of gotten, but I won't be buying me another set for a while.
> 
> ...


 
  've ot a big head and big ears and I enjoy the extra clamp. Keeps em snug, the ads are comfy enough that there is no pain with them. and I own both pro 880 n 990 
   
  good to hear I understand gain correctly ish, I figured that's what it was. ratio or something but know I know more exactly, and my dt might sound better on like 18 or so. Who knows I'll fiddle with it later


----------



## TMRaven

Screw the Phillips X1.  I'm waiting eagerly for that closed back audeze.  I'm borrowing my old M50 I gave my brother a year or two ago.  The cavernous and extended closed bass is addicting.


----------



## shanek248

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Tritton's processing unit is (afaik) only available in an AX720 headphone bundle, and it's nothing special really. It uses Dolby Headphone, just like the Turtle Beach DSS and Mixamp, but besides the processing, the amp has noise performance below the others. Your Trittons (made by Mad Catz) has the processing built-in in such a way that other headphones can't take advantage of it. By the way, did you read my "article?"





> Ok Im confused by this because I have AX-Pros and there is definately a decoder box included... It doesnt matter I guess because Im planning to fix and they dont seem to be compatible with much anyway! Do you mean your "If I knew then..." thread? Yes I read it. Very interesting!





> One other thing I pointed out was that the headphones like your AX Pros have multiple drivers in the headset to perform surround... Maybe you're used to that by now, but usually each driver isn't as good as a regular one in a stereo headphone, and I talk about why/how 2 headphone speakers can produce surround from any direction... Not just directions corresponding to a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker surround setup, although _console _games are limited to filtering directional cues through 5.1/7.1 channels. Creative's soundcards for PC (and a few software options) have processing designed from the ground up for headphones and games that can mathematically calculate a sound coming from any direction or elevation. That's the main draw of Creative sound cards, not the EAX that Impulse mentioned (which creates environment sounds, like reverb that sounds like it's coming from inside a cave or grand opera hall). To this day, games are being made that take advantage of the full, 3D sphere of surround, but they're only found on PC, and it's not guaranteed to be included in every AAA game anymore either. But, like PhysX or Tesselation, it's cool when it is there.


 
  Very interesting stuff.


----------



## Evshrug

I did mean my "if I knew then..." thread, my 2nd post was an "article" explaining surround.
I've never used the AX PROs myself, so I don't know what the setup is like, but FWIR the headphones are the type with multiple drivers and you can't use other headphones with the AX PRO's decoder box. Also, you'll probably be impressed with the clarity of other headphones 

...


But have you any other questions?


----------



## shanek248

Well as I said before it has 3 audio jacks on the back of the decoder box which refer to 5.1 surround sound. I assume this would work with surround head phones?


----------



## Evshrug

Huh, so your headphones have a cable that terminates into three plugs: fronts, rears, center+bass? If so, I guess you could hook up a bunch of pairs of computer speakers, but the connection may be proprietary to the Tritton Ax Pro instead of typical 3.5mm headphone jacks. There probably is a mic input in there somewhere. Do you agree with Mad's review of the AxPro? Seems that was the only multi-driver-per-earcup headphone that Mad tried.


----------



## Evshrug

By the way Mad, thanks again for lending me (and the others) the HE-400. A headphone I otherwise probably couldn't have auditioned. Also, reading others' reviews and impressions, I'm really glad I got to hear them with the velours, that's definitely the way to listen to them


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone else want my Mixamp Pro 2011? More ideal with those who are planning on using an external amp. It's all packaged and ready to go. $90 shipped. All cables:

3.5mm male/male

RCA to 3.5mm

RCA to RCA with piggybacks

long 9ft USB cable

long optical cable

audio/mic Y cable

Xbox 360 controller cable

Nothing is missing. Original box and everything.


Just remember it has a shifty volume knob in that it distorts in the first 50% of the volume, so I tend to leave it maxed and control volume with the game/voice knob. Works perfectly that way. If you're using an external amp to help power it, then you won't have a single issue either way.

Significantly less hiss than any Mixamp after (5.8 and 2013 models hiss quite a bit more. This one is nearly dead silent, and IS silent with harder to drive headphones).


----------



## boredandlazy

Ok, there's a lot to go through in this thread so I thought I may as well just ask the question so sorry if this has already been asked...
  I already have an Astro mixamp paired with some Sennheiser PC360's that I use for my PS3.
  Is it a perfectly acceptable solution to run a Fiio E17 from a usb port on my laptop, then running the optical output from the E17 to the mixamp so that can perform Dolby Headphone processing?
  I only want to do this for surround gaming, so whilst I'm just using the laptop for music/movies I'd just run the E17 direct to headphones/speakers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Astro Mixamp must be first in the chain.

Also, the E17s optical port is an INPUT, not an output.

All you can do is optical to Mixamp, Mixamp's headphone out to the E17's analog/aux in.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone else want my Mixamp Pro 2011? More ideal with those who are planning on using an external amp. It's all packaged and ready to go. $90 shipped. All cables:
> 
> 3.5mm male/male
> 
> ...


 
  good deal is it an ACTUAL Mircosft registered 360 controller, as crappy off brands don't work with computers [I don't need it but hell a pc gamer might be able to use a AStro Mix amp] plus it looks kinda neat and I hate on board sound cards [as that's MORE I have to maitance on my pc board >.>] Speaking of which my poor pc hasn't been cleaned in like 2 months q.q. Going to have to do it like tommorow or something >.> b4 it explodes


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Controller *CABLE*. Meaning the cable between the Mixamp and controller that allows you to chat.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Said controller cable


----------



## boredandlazy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No. Astro Mixamp must be first in the chain.
> 
> Also, the E17s optical port is an INPUT, not an output.
> 
> All you can do is optical to Mixamp, Mixamp's headphone out to the E17's analog/aux in.


 
  Whoops... Slightly important detail I missed there... 
  Anyway what about a HUD-MX2? That can send USB audio to optical output, I don't see why that wouldn't go to the mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're missing an important detail, devices like that won't carry a Dolby Digital signal through. Digital signals will almost always be converted to PCM, losing Dolby Digital, losing the ability to let the Mixamp convert into Dolby Headphone. That, and it's doubtful the USB even takes in anything more than 2 channels.

In short, again, Mixamp must go first.


----------



## boredandlazy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're missing an important detail, devices like that won't carry a Dolby Digital signal through. Digital signals will almost always be converted to PCM, losing Dolby Digital, losing the ability to let the Mixamp convert into Dolby Headphone. That, and it's doubtful the USB even takes in anything more than 2 channels.
> 
> In short, again, Mixamp must go first.


 
  Thanks again, I keep jumping the gun a little...
  Anyway I think the solution has been staring me in the face all along, I was planning on buying the Fiio E17 as a replacement for my my Asus Xonar U3. But I'm probably better off just buying the E17 for general use and then keeping the Xonar for when I want to play games as that supports Dolby Headphone/Dolby Live natively etc.
  Might be interesting to see if there's any difference in quality when plugging my PC360's directly into the Xonar U3 for Dolby Headphone, or using the spdif output on the U3 carrying a Dolby Digital Live signal to my Astro Mixamp.


----------



## Makiah S

epuld love to see what you fine, I do LOVE the surround ish sound omy the wii U, monster hunter is kinda cool when stuff sounds relivant to where it is, ;eft of me right of me behind me ect...
   
  so that would be extra cool in good mmos as well!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> You're missing an important detail, devices like that won't carry a Dolby Digital signal through. Digital signals will almost always be converted to PCM, losing Dolby Digital, losing the ability to let the Mixamp convert into Dolby Headphone. That, and it's doubtful the USB even takes in anything more than 2 channels.
> 
> In short, again, Mixamp must go first.



The Recon3D receives surround from computer audio through USB.
BUT, I get your main point, the processor must receive more than 2 channels of audio, and USB dongles or external DACs usually strip out the Dolby Digital Live (DDL) from the signal. I don't know if the U3 has SPDIF-out, especially one that would include DH processing, would be cool if it did but I'm not holding my breath at the cost of an U3. It's also kind of weird that essentially boredandlazy would be double-DACing.

Boredandlazy,
If you already have a Xonar U3 USB DAC (and if you don't game on consoles), why not just buy an amp instead of the E17, which is a combo DAC/Amp? The cheaper E11 has an amp basically comparable to the E17's, or you could buy a more powerful amp like an E09k, E12, or Schiit Magni.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you sure? I tried it, and I couldn't get surround audio through USB with the Recon. I had to use the optical.


----------



## Evshrug

Dead sure. I keep my Recon3D plugged into my computer through USB and the Xbox at the same time through optical, remember? Though I have since fixed the motherboard audio issue I was having, for a while the Recon3D USB was the only way I had audio on my PC for a while. Good morning, by the way.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Good morning, by the way.


 
   
  What are you doing up this late/early?

 GO BACK TO BED!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, duh. The Xonar U3 does DH through USB. I forgot. :rolleyes:

Still, an audiophile DAC is undoubtedly either only gonna take 2 channel PCM, or throw out Dolby Digital in favor of PCM. So there is no keeping Dolby Digital through the chain until it gets to his Mixamp.

I work overnights, so this time in the morning is like the afternoon for me even on my days off.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> What are you doing up this late/early?
> 
> GO BACK TO BED!!
> 
> h34r:



I often have to get up at 6 for work, and I've found myself unable to sleep in on days off, like today. Why you up?


----------



## Evshrug

Guys? LoL, guys??? Lookit:

What a bargain! Except... There are better deals on Head-Fi's For Sale forum now, from Mad, Nameless, and myself


----------



## HopeSilent

Hello Head-Fi, 
   
  Can the Astro 5.8 drive ultrasone pro 900's and an AntLion modmic?
   
  Sincerely,
  New member


----------



## Impulse

evshrug said:


> The Recon3D receives surround from computer audio through USB.
> BUT, I get your main point, the processor must receive more than 2 channels of audio, and USB dongles or external DACs usually strip out the Dolby Digital Live (DDL) from the signal. I don't know if the U3 has SPDIF-out, especially one that would include DH processing, would be cool if it did but I'm not holding my breath at the cost of an U3. It's also kind of weird that essentially boredandlazy would be double-DACing.




I'm pretty sick right now so I probably got lost halfway thru the discussion, but if he's passing a signal thru SPIDF he's not doing any double DAC'ing (there's only one digital to analog conversion, at the end point)... One device's just working as a processor, like any AVR would when fed thru HDMI (and before speaker output), or like a sound card doing DH then feeding PCM to an AVR...

That being said, I do agree with everything else... Just get an amp, or use the U3 for gaming exclusively, KISS.


----------



## Change is Good

Hello, everyone. I have been researching through these forums for the last few months. I created a profile so I can personally thank Mad Lust Envy, chicolom, and Evshrug. After purchasing and returning many setups, I finally found my match... thanks to you. I am new to all of this... so my ears feel like I'm in heaven whenever I game or watch movies. I ended up with this setup...
  PS3 > Recon3D > Matrix M-Stage (2012 version) > Q701s (with annie pads). I am now damn near broke... but still... thank you, again!


----------



## Evshrug

Can't sleep... Almost won a good deal on eBay of a graphics card for my computer, but lost by $10 in the last 5 minutes!



impulse said:


> I'm pretty sick right now so I probably got lost halfway thru the discussion, but if he's passing a signal thru SPIDF he's not doing any double DAC'ing (there's only one digital to analog conversion, at the end point)... One device's just working as a processor, like any AVR would when fed thru HDMI (and before speaker output), or like a sound card doing DH then feeding PCM to an AVR...
> 
> That being said, I do agree with everything else... Just get an amp, or use the U3 for gaming exclusively, KISS.



Aww, you're sick? Seems a lot of people I know get sick near the change of seasons, maybe the positive side is spring is coming to your area real soon. April showers and all that. Still, I'm sorry you're feeling under the weather, get well soon!

And yeah, processing isn't the same as a digital-to-analogue conversion. I made an error, eep! But it's moot anyway, even without looking I'm almost certain the only output on the Xonar U3 is just an analogue headphone jack (and a mic input), using it with the E17 would only make use of the E17's amp feature (and EQ processing) I think. Now, maaaaybe he wants the E17 to use as a DAC when he's not playing games and just listening to music, but unless he is a diehard music fan he would be spending basically half of the cost of the device on a feature he would rarely use (since the E11 is specified so similar to the E17's amp section, but costs half as much). Like you said, just K.eep I.t S.imple S.tupid, he should just stick with the U3 as a DAC and surround processor for PC, and buy an upgraded Amp if needed.

If I had finished my engineering degree, I would've liked to create a kickstarter campaign for a custom gaming sound processor, DAC, amp all-in-one, with all the features like HDMI ports that we would like to see. It would probably cost more than a Mixamp, but it would be an elegant, complete system. I saw a nifty 3D mouse on kickstarter.com that you wear on your finger, it allows you to mouse without removing your hand from the keyboard and also translates distance movements (cuz it's a 3D mouse).



change is good said:


> Hello, everyone. I have been researching through these forums for the last few months. I created a profile so I can personally thank Mad Lust Envy, chicolom, and Evshrug. After purchasing and returning many setups, I finally found my match... thanks to you. I am new to all of this... so my ears feel like I'm in heaven whenever I game or watch movies. I ended up with this setup...
> PS3 > Recon3D > Matrix M-Stage (2012 version) > Q701s (with annie pads). I am now damn near broke... but still... thank you, again!



Lol, sweet, your setup is like an amalgamation of our favorite gear. I've never heard the M-Stage (debated getting one for a while), but Chicolom raves about it and I bet it's awesome  I don't know if you read my Recon3D review, but I have a link in there that points back to a post in this thread where I chronicled my testing and impressions of what each settings adjustment does, and how to save your settings to the device so your changes carry over to using it with your PS3. Then again, you're happy now, so maybe you've already got settings that are best for you


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hello, everyone. I have been researching through these forums for the last few months. I created a profile so I can personally thank Mad Lust Envy, chicolom, and Evshrug. After purchasing and returning many setups, I finally found my match... thanks to you. I am new to all of this... so my ears feel like I'm in heaven whenever I game or watch movies. I ended up with this setup...
> PS3 > Recon3D > Matrix M-Stage (2012 version) > Q701s (with annie pads). I am now damn near broke... but still... thank you, again!


 
   
  That's a sweet setup!   Very similar to mine
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  The only thing I might change is swapping the Recon for a DSS 1.  I haven't heard the Recon though, I just personally tend to prefer Dolby Headphone.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That's a sweet setup!   Very similar to mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I can bring mine to the next meet should you want to borrow it for a bit, Chico. I may also have to have a demo set up with it there too, so people can get a feel for the gaming processing.


----------



## Evshrug

^ you guys live nearby?
I may get on FRAPS to record my own sample, but then maybe not, because I may be selling mine soon bundled with my AD700. I don't want to lose surround and THX did work well for me so I'll probably be picking up a sound card while streamlining my console setup.


----------



## Makiah S

mmm new pads  are nice, mids are tighter but more forward, bass is better and the highs are brighter, sound stage opens just a little
   
  I also realized the driver are angled :O that being said, the mids kind of DIE if you have them on ur head wrong IE, make sure the |
  can site like this against ur ear / fat end near the back of your ears thinner end near the front of ur ear facing ur nose
   
  the mids DIE if you push the cans back to far. That being said, I want a hair cut q.q. So I'm off to clean my room and get a HAIR cut q.q


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Hello all!
   
  This isn't really an audio question but I'm wondering if anybody here (probably Nameless) can help me out.  The other day I bought a GDM-FW900. A few weeks ago I remember Nameless mentioning that there was no real benefit to buying the HDFury for console gaming since the PS3 can't do more than 60FPS (at any refresh rate) period.
    
  The thing is that I still need some sort of way to connect my PS3 (and Wii U in the future) to my monitor. I'm wondering if I should go with the a regular HDMI to VGA converter or is an HDFury really really necessary? And if so, which one would you recommend? There is also the gammaX that is supposed to correct black levels but I don't think that is necessary with this monitor being a CRT and everything. Anyway, what would you recommend?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol, sweet, your setup is like an amalgamation of our favorite gear. I've never heard the M-Stage (debated getting one for a while), but Chicolom raves about it and I bet it's awesome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I actually came across your review after I purchased the Recon3D and it helped me, immensely. I had the AD700 paired up with it at first... but ended up returning them. I guess my ears desired more. I then ordered the Q701s with the Fiio E9k. I was happy at first, but then that is when I came across chicolom's review of the M-Stage. I could not resist, so I then returned the E9K and ordered the M-Stage from Shenzen Audio on Amazon (great seller, highly recommend). Somewhere in between is when I ordered the annie pads... right around the time MLE updated this thread.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That's a sweet setup!   Very similar to mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I am extremely interested about Dolby Headphone. I actually wanted to get the astro mixamp at first.. but since I do all my shopping on Amazon, mostly... it wasn't an option, unfortunately. That is how I ended up with the Recon3d. It was actually all I could find (compatible with PS3) at the time. I didn't do much research and did not know of this website, yet. As for the DSS 1, I have been on the fence for a while on whether to purchase it or not. Is it similar to the astro mixamp when it comes to DH? Would it really be an upgrade from the Recon3D? I know you haven't tried it... but maybe MLE can give me some advice on this?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





roger de ceiba said:


> Hello all!
> 
> This isn't really an audio question but I'm wondering if anybody here (probably Nameless) can help me out.  The other day I bought a GDM-FW900. A few weeks ago I remember Nameless mentioning that there was no real benefit to buying the HDFury for console gaming since the PS3 can't do more than 60FPS (at any refresh rate) period.
> 
> The thing is that I still need some sort of way to connect my PS3 (and Wii U in the future) to my monitor. I'm wondering if I should go with the a regular HDMI to VGA converter or is an HDFury really really necessary? And if so, which one would you recommend? There is also the gammaX that is supposed to correct black levels but I don't think that is necessary with this monitor being a CRT and everything. Anyway, what would you recommend?


 
  Hmm what a nifty product, 
   
  I honestly have no idea what to tell you either, but what you can do [and what I really want to do my self] is get a HDMI Spilter, that spilts the Audio from the video, that way I can run the audio line out from my wii U straigh into my amp, as opposed to allowing the audio to go through the Game Pad then into my amp as stock sound is pretty bad.
   
  And I think the nrml HDMI to VGA converters r like $100 or something, which is the price of HD fury ti seems
   
  either way I wish u luck!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got Matt's Mad Dogs (with Alpha Pads) as a loaner.

First impressions: Holy crap, they are stupid comfy. Seriously, that comfort is like 9/10. The pads feel amazing. The comfort strap is VERY welcome.

Getting a good seal for me isn't easy with my ears and these pads. I would prefer stronger clamp, as just barely pressing the cups to my ears gives me a good seal and sound improves quite a bit. As it stands, it feels a little loose, and voices sound slightly sibilant, and bass isn't strong. So without holding the cups, I feel I lost a little SQ. It's like two different headphones depending on clamp.

 I could definitely tell these are quite stellar, assuming you can get a really tight seal and good enough clamp.

The sound signature definitely sounds like a less refined, closed LCD2. Assuming you get a GREAT seal, this is a pretty solid, cheaper alternative. Still, you can hear the refinement/improvement when jumping from the MD to the LCD2. No question. A cleaner, smoother sound, with quite a bit more air and dimensionality. Voices are more natural than the MD too. Mid forwardness is similar, so I must say, LOVE the tonal balance on the Mad Dogs.

Not a fan of the alpha pads due to the lack of 'give' they have. I would have loved for them to mold on the face, so the seal would improve more, ah well. I wonder how the dog pads are in comparison? I really do want a fair bit more clamp. I have to ask Matt if he bent them for less clamp.

Don't get me wrong. Assuming I get a tighter clamp, these are easily the best closed headphones I have ever heard outside of the D7000. They are a STEAL at $300. No doubt about it. I wouldn't QUESTION owning these if I needed a closed headphone, if it gave me the sound that they give me when I just barely hold them to my ears.

And yes, I would actually choose these over the HE-400, again, if the clamp was stronger, and I could manage to get it to sound like when I press the cups to my ears just a little. Why? Because it does sound like a baby/closed LCD2. Not quite there, but for $300, you can't expect it to be.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> . I didn't do much research and did not know of this website, yet. As for the DSS 1, I have been on the fence for a while on whether to purchase it or not. Is it similar to the astro mixamp when it comes to DH? Would it really be an upgrade from the Recon3D? I know you haven't tried it... but maybe MLE can give me some advice on this?




Yes, they use the same Dolby Headphone processing, so virtual surround is exactly the same.

If you can spring for it, it will be a noticeable improvement over the the Recon. They are similar, but the DSS/Mixamp's DH will sound more round, with better rear positional cues and sense of rear depth.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got Matt's Mad Dogs (with Alpha Pads) as a loaner.
> 
> First impressions: Holy crap, they are stupid comfy. Seriously, that comfort is like 9/10. The pads feel amazing.
> 
> ...


 
  see I had the mad dogs, and the clamp and seal for me where fine, and HOLY CRAP they ISOLATED like CRAZY  and the where super comfy BUT they did not sound nearly as nice as my current ath w1000x [L3000 Padded] do, and yea I use a solid state with my w1000x [something I did not have with the Mad Dogs] Non the less I wasn't a fan of how overly forward the mids where on my Thinnest tube! Still wishing I had my solid state when I had those] but on the plus side, the new pads and another BENDING of the head band has made the w1000x evem better! 
   
  And while I'm still not sure if I like my dt 880s or my w1000x more, as they have both turned out to be really awesome cans! and sadly the Matrix M Stage v2 [Upgraded psu +L4990 opamp] sounds really nice. I do prefer it over my cheap tube, although the dt 880s still like my Thick Mullard Tube amp so I'll have to get a real tube eventually as these hybrid rn't comparing towell [although the Indeed G3 is still king of BASS HEAD music lol] 
   
  that being said giving the thick tube a listen with the w1000x again, and yea the mids are suddutive, but it lacks the refine ment and clarity of the solid state. [which means I need a better tube <3] plus even with the low gain setting on the thick tube, it's still to much gain... very noisy. I like teh refinement of the solid state with these
   
  The same with the dt 880s I enjoy the refine ment of the solid state over the extra warmth of the Tube
   
  in addition while rock is nice with the 880 it's just not as enjoyable, ofc the thick tube solves many of the issues these cans have with rock, still w1000x wins for rock again and again! Yea the bass is more rich on the w100x and those mids, just come out an touch me! Bass is to tight for rock on the 880s, and as a bass player I can say that! The instrument by nature is a little on the loose side, add some flatwound strings and your JAMMIN man, if your going with a pucnhier bass then you want round wounds, which are have brighter upper bass and lower mids. So the dt 880 isn't laid back enough with bass for bass guitars to sound nice, on teh other end. A Double Bass [the classical wooden one that's bigger than I am] sounds AMAZING on the dt 880 as it's a MUCH tighter instrument imo!
   
  Non the less, I didn't like the mad dogs. Tube amps made them sound pretty horrific! [And a thin tube at that] might try again with my solid state but for the same price I got a can that I like a little more!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing horrific here, just a bit polite and slightly sibilant, if I don't slightly press them to my ears, despite it's dark tone. When I push them towards my ears just a smidge, the sound is very rich, and intimate. Love it.

If you're into soundstage, closed headphones are naturally gonna fail in that regard, aside from some exceptions like Denons. The MD is no different. It sounds closed compared to the LCD2, which is open, yet sounds slightly closed itself (the leather version).


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes, they use the same Dolby Headphone processing, so virtual surround is exactly the same.
> 
> If you can spring for it, it will be a noticeable improvement over the the Recon. They are similar, but the DSS/Mixamp's DH will sound more round, with better rear positional cues and sense of rear depth.


 
  Ok, sweet! I have a couple questions, though. Does it connect to the PS3 similar to the Recon? Meaning does it connect via optical cable for sound and via usb for microphone. Also, where do you connect the mic on the DSS? All I see is a headphone out... no mic in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DSS only has mic capablities for turtle beach headsets. If you need chat, get a Mixamp. I'm selling mine, BTW.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DSS only has mic capablities for turtle beach headsets. If you need chat, get a Mixamp. I'm selling mine, BTW.


 
  Yes, I need chat. I see that you are selling your mixamp. I might just jump on it when I have the spare cash. I am going to see if I can return my Recon to Amazon for a partial refund... since its been over 30 days. I will certainly let you know what I decide.
   
  I have another question. Would the Tritton be suitable? I see on your review it also has DH. How does it compare to the DSS an mixamp? Thank you so much for your insight.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Tritton also has the same surround. It just has a layer of hiss compared to my model Mixamp and the DSS (as stated by Chocolom). My Mixamp is the least hissy of all the Mixamps. The AX720's amp will be a bit hissy. The NEW Mixamps are quite hissy as well, though not AX720 level of hiss.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Tritton also has the same surround. It just has a layer of hiss compared to my model Mixamp and the DSS (as stated by Chocolom). My Mixamp is the least hissy of all the Mixamps. The AX720's amp will be a bit hissy. The NEW Mixamps are quite hissy as well, though not AX720 level of hiss.


 
  Ok. I am most likely going to jump on your deal. I will PM you once I inquire about returning my Recon. Thank you, again.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Hmm what a nifty product,
> 
> I honestly have no idea what to tell you either, but what you can do [and what I really want to do my self] is get a HDMI Spilter, that spilts the Audio from the video, that way I can run the audio line out from my wii U straigh into my amp, as opposed to allowing the audio to go through the Game Pad then into my amp as stock sound is pretty bad.
> 
> ...


 

 That is true, I forgot that the Wii U can only output sound from one source (thank you Nintendo). If I'm going to use a monitor, I'll have to use a splitter no matter what.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Just procured a Harman Kardon AVR 254 if someone wants to get it. I can add a squaretrade warranty to it, but not for much longer. The 30 day window is coming up. Message me if you want it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ^ you guys live nearby?


 
   
  Yep, we're both in southwest Ohio.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nothing horrific here, just a bit polite and slightly sibilant, if I don't slightly press them to my ears, despite it's dark tone. When I push them towards my ears just a smidge, the sound is very rich, and intimate. Love it.
> 
> If you're into soundstage, closed headphones are naturally gonna fail in that regard, aside from some exceptions like Denons. The MD is no different. It sounds closed compared to the LCD2, which is open, yet sounds slightly closed itself (the leather version).


 
  I just didn't like them out of my tubes, they where overally intimate imo, and the treble was pretty meh. Yea dark is the word, to dark for me
   
  in addition listening to Adele. I hear people judge mids by her voice, and personally I think she sings in a very upper mid, although Someone LIke you, she seems to be speaking more singing less, and WOW nice mids. Good rich quality to her voice! [This is with my w1000x btw] 
   
  also OMG the 40 band spectra Bar Graph <3  me GUSTA, but yea Adele belts some powerful upper mids and finish with nice warm lower mids. So I totally get what people are talking about, not disappointing at all. She's no Linda Perhacs though <3 so for now Linda's voice will be my sexy mid Standard!


----------



## 3X0

Hmm.. I prefer the ATH-A900X over my JH13s and Anthony Gallo Strada + SVS SB12-Plus for gaming. Obviously either my IEMs or my speakers win out big-time for music.
   
  The closed-back design works very well to block police sirens and fire trucks, and I seem to get very clear positional cues in BF3.


----------



## HopeSilent

Mad Lust Envy,

I'd like to start off by thanking you for creating such an incredible knowledge base. Without such, individuals such as myself(enthusiast perfectionist researchers) could easily be turned off to headphones and simply pursue other alternatives. With as much as I research the many things I do, sometimes I just need clear concise information without weeding through everything. All of that aside, I apologize for my original short post. Having some more time now I will elaborate further if that can be of any help. 

Originally I asked if the Astro 5.8 Mixamp could drive the Ultrasone Pro 900's. My interest in both is due to moving into an apartment in the near future because I am graduating from college. My logic is that I wanted closed headphones to isolate myself from surrounding noises from neighbors as well as reduce the amount of noise others have to tolerate while I am using said headphones. I wanted to utilize a virtual surround device to help increase immersion and keep the lack of a full surround system from making the audio feel underwhelming compared to my projector. 

The system would be used primarily for media viewing,(via ps3 utilizing plex media server as well as dvd's/blu-ray's, streamed content, live tv with hdhomerun), gaming (ps3, possibly PC). Music is the last but not least, although the usage would be limited in comparison to the aforementioned priorities.

Priorities established, let's talk about equipment. I selected the Ultrasone Pro 900's due to Mad Lust Envy's review and their closed back design. I felt the qualities Mad Lust Envy expounded on in the review made the headphones the best option for me. I selected the Astro 5.8 Mixamp originally because I wanted to reduce cable clutter and eliminate walkway problems. This was of course before I recognized that my projector would indeed be behind/above me(shocking right?). I still like the 5.8 but it's discontinuation has complicated procurement slightly. I've also considered the Recon 3d recently, although it doesn't seem to have a very large following in this particular thread.

So... Now that I've written you an essay, my original question was..? What do you think is best for me? To be honest, I hear all of my media through cheaper 2.1 setups. I'm really excited to add surround sound and higher audio quality to my home theater experience.

Thank you all for any help,
Ryan


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is relatively easy to drive, so it shouldn't have much if any issue being driven off the Mixamp 5.8. I definitely like them more for gaming/movies than music, since Dolby Headphone takes off a little bit of the really edgy treble the Pro 900s have.

If you like an aggresive sound with really impressive midbass, the Pro 900 will please you especially for gaming. Not a fan of it's treble, but as mentioned, it's not a big issue when using it for media.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I saw it and meant to reply.

I apologize to everyone for not having nearly any closed/isolating headphones on the guide. I don't actively buy them since I don't need them and open headphones generally have superior sound in almost all aspects. Closed headphones are very situational, and for those situations, I just use my clip ons, which while open, don't leak out loudly. Just a slight tizz in the background.


----------



## HopeSilent

Any comparison against the Mad Dogs you mentioned? They seem to be more tonally neutral, hadn't heard of them until you mentioned them last page. Really impressed with the design however, looks very comfortable. What virtual surround device do you prefer? Wired is an option it just seems that wireless would simplify what I'm looking for. The 5.8's bass boost feature would also become useless I'm sure with the Pro 900's, although the mad dogs might make use of it. I'm not entirely closed (ironic) to open headphones, I just want to minimize leakage in/out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have enough head time with the Mad Dogs yet, but it is quite different than the Pro 900 in sound presentation. I don't like comparing two headphones that cater to very different things. In any case, I prfer the warmer, and more accurate presentation of the Mad Dogs over the Pro 900 just from my brief impression of it. Not sure how it will fare for gaming.

It sounds just like I expected. Closed, and intimate. I dont think it will topple any of my faves for gaming, nor do I expect it to do amazingly well with Dolby Headphone. Probably decent to good, but who knows?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SOOOOOOOO...

I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).

Anyways:

Processor 2.40 (boost to 3.40) GHz Intel Core i7 3630QM
RAM 6 GB (I just ordered a 4gb 1600mhz sticks to replace the stock ones)
Hard Drive 1TB (also bought a 128gb Samsung 840 Pro SSD as well)
GFX card: AMD 7970M. It's the best AMD gfx card that rivals Nvidia's flagship GTX680m from what I've read...

I maxed out my Amazon card with this, so no more headphone purchases for awhile... :rolleyes:

 Looks like it's LCD2 for now.

*Also looks like I'm gonna FINALLY get into some PC gaming.* 

I sold my desktop to family, and I'm selling my monitor. This will do it all, literally. I might end up selling my 65" plasma as well.

Here's the Amazon page (different configuration but it shows what the M17x does)

http://www.amazon.com/Alienware-AM17xR4-8424BK-17-3-Inch-Laptop-Stealth/dp/B00ANG3ULW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1364486819&sr=1-1&keywords=m17x+r4


----------



## zx6guy

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Ok. I am most likely going to jump on your deal. I will PM you once I inquire about returning my Recon. Thank you, again.


 
   
  Just to clarify, you can chat with the DSS but just not mix the chat and game volume.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SOOOOOOOO...
> 
> I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).
> 
> ...


 
  Welcome to the wonderful world of PC gaming!  Nice rig, great specs and definitely a good all in one solution with the HDMI input - this thing is a portable powerhouse.  You could always do HDMI out into your plasma if you end up keeping it.  You may want to consider a big laptop cooler as these reportedly get pretty warm under load.  The AMD 7xxx series are good cards, though...you'll be able to play most games on full setting with no problems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. I'm excited, and unbelievably broke...

Okay on to other things...



Mad Dogs on the left.

Huh... INTERESTING.

Just got the leather LCD2.

Side by side comparison to the vegan LCD2...

It's subtle but... the vegan has slightly MORE bass, while the leather has slightly MORE mids. :eek:

Don't have much time to test this out today, but I will put up my findings later. As of right now, it's a miniscule difference.

They really are within a hair of each other in sound. I'll have to pay special attention to the treble range, as that's where I noted the difference before.

The leather is definitely a smidge warmer overall. It wouldn't be noticeable if you didn't compare directly like this. The vocals on the leather are fuller/slightly more organic.

The vegan is right there next to it though, and is CONSIDERABLY more comfortable. So if you want a more neutral tone, the vegan is the way to go.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol, Mad's going to get quite busy now that he has a new gaming platform. Obviously the *m*(obile) graphics cards are a small step down from the desktop cards, but still you should be able to experience max settings and a fair amount of Anti-Aliasing as well. Do you own any PC games yet? Before you sell your 65" plasma, you simply MUST play a game at full settings, and see just how old the console hardware is. I enjoy retro games and don't _need_ cutting edge graphics to have a good time, but still it adds a WOAH! factor. Have you tried Far Cry 3 yet? Get some game demos! Steam games are so cheap...

Edit: HOLY..............


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some demos are gonna have to do. Lol. I do have some on my desktop which isn't bad itself. Still, the M17x should be quite a step up. Apparently can play BF3 on Ultra and do over 30fps. I'm sure with high settings I'll still be blown away.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thanks. I'm excited, and unbelievably broke...
> 
> Okay on to other things...
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice!  I, for one, am definitely excited to hear your impressions.  I'll have an opportunity to try both in May (along with the HE-500 and several others) to determine what my next move will be, but you're quite thorough and seemingly accurate with all your reviews and opinions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're ultimately the same exact headphone. I've heard two EXACT headphones with the same exact pads sound more different than these two LCD2s with different pads. So, honestly, I'd recommend getting whichever you feel would benefit you most. I DO like the leather LCD'2s slight warmth over the vegan, so it's my keeper. But it's too close to call.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They're ultimately the same exact headphone. I've heard two EXACT headphones with the same exact pads sound more different than these two LCD2s with different pads. So, honestly, I'd recommend getting whichever you feel would benefit you most. I DO like the leather LCD'2s slight warmth over the vegan, so it's my keeper. But it's too close to call.


 
  Ah, I meant between the Mad Dog and LCD2 (and how the Mad Dog fairs for gaming), but I now see your brief impressions from the earlier posting - still looking forward to the full review, though.  I figured based on what others reported that the differences between pads on the Audezes were pretty minimal, and it was more of a preference of comfort.  I'm considering the Mad Dog, LCD2 and/or HE-500 (among others) because I think I'd like to have a flatter response and/or a closed headphone to complement the HE-400.  Though, I may be won over by one or more of those and decide to sell the HE-400, who knows.  My natural curiosity is piqued to hear other headphones and since I was not able to demo anything I originally chose the HE-400 based off reviews and impressions that seemed to match my tastes, one of which was your review.  I think your impressions are fairly accurate overall.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah, I just wanted to get the LCD2 differences out of the way. My time with the Mad Dogs will come in the weekend, particularly Sunday and Monday, as those are my days off, and I have to ship out the LCD2 sooner than the MDs.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *Also looks like I'm gonna FINALLY get into some PC gaming.*


 
   
  So, sounds like it might be time to send MLE a couple of Steam games that I have sitting around.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SOOOOOOOO...
> 
> I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Holy crap. Never thought you'd plunk down for that kind of laptop.
   
  A friend of mine ordered an Alienware M18x a while back, pretty loaded to the gills. IIRC, it was packing dual GTX 680Ms, a pair of 256 GB SSDs in RAID 0, and other beefy hardware that $4,400 or so can buy...though some annoying flaws included the keyboard rollover (can't run diagonally with certain WASD or ESDF combinations and jump at the same time) and the fact that the sound got all crackly whenever dedicated graphics were enabled. I sure hope the M17x has neither of those issues, though you may be able to get around the sound issues with a Xonar U3.
   
  If you don't want to futz around with MotioninJoy for your DualShock 3 pads on that machine (and I'm pretty sure you'll want a gamepad for certain PC games, especially on a laptop), I could offer you a Logitech F710 I'm not using that's like new. Great pad, but I've got a bunch of other ones I can use that offer more flexibility, even if they're less straightforward driver-wise.
   
  Hope to see you on Steam soon!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SOOOOOOOO...
> 
> I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).
> 
> ...


 
   
  LOL
   
  That sounds like a MAJOR impulse buy.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  There are a lot of things you could get for that kind of money.  I personally would have gone with a cheaper high power desktop build, plus a cheaper laptop to use the rest of the time.  Last time I checked, when you bought an alienware some of the money was going towards the casing and the badge instead of the hardware and components inside.
   
  I REALLY wish more laptops had HDMI inputs though.  You already payed for the LCD screen, why not be able to use it with other sources?!
  I don't care if takes another $100 to add firmware, inputs, and OSD buttons for the screen or whatever. 
   
  Also, what ever happened to "I'm a console gamer!" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  The good thing about consoles is, the developers are working with a fixed platform so they can optimize everything as much as possible.  You turn it on and everything just works, and you can forget about having to disable all your background processes/reduce the overhead of the OS and getting your soundcard/graphics card up to date and working correctly and set to all the right settings. 
   
  Obviously that's also a bad thing in that everything's very capped/locked down/limited by the hardware.  You can't tweak or experiment with other settings.
   
   
  As for the disparity in graphical power, hopefully this next gen of consoles will bring them back up to speed (literally).  I know you can _always _get a beefier PC _if you want_, but I really don't _need _4K res @ 160fps gameplay (modern HDTVs will only accept 60 fps anyways).  I don't need  to buy a rig that's powerful enough to run everything on max just because I can.  _I do want_ 1080p with better textures, lighting, filtering, AA, higher quality assets, etc. 
   
  There's something really great about the sweet simplicity of consoles- not having to think about or manage the underlying PC to always try and get the most out of it.
   
   
  Personally, I'm not a fan of controlling games via mouse and keyboard.  It's too easy to point and click on something to shoot it and feels lame and detaches me from the experience.  It's also uncomfortable for me.
  You can plug controllers into PCs for gaming, although last time I tried it it seemed a little laggy.  Maybe it's gotten better.
   
  It's just more immersive and comfortable with a controller for me though.


----------



## HopeSilent

Well, I picked up some new Pro 900's for $250, won't have them until next Wednesday. Feel like I did pretty well, hopefully you guys can agree. I think for the home theater uses I'm mainly interested in they will perform admirably. Looking hard for the 5.8 mixamp now, the batteries aren't available on astro's website and I'm concerned about buying a chinese one, also need to grab the ps3 chat cable/belt clip if missing. Can I just use a 2.5 male to 3.5 female adapter (gold plated, any manufacturer recommendations?) for whichever mic I choose instead of using the y-cable? From there I will determine if I need an amp(already have the C&C BH in mind unless anyone has a recommendation?) and/or more rx units for guests.
   
  Thanks again for any help,
  Ryan


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, I didn't actually buy this for gaming. I specifically bought this for the HDMi input. I already had a fantastic desktop.

I could have saved a bit of money by getting it with a GTX675m, but the better 7970m card added only about 100 dollars, for a massive improvement. So why not? The fact that it plays games is a very nice added bonus, but it's not gonna turn me into a PC gamer. I barely play anything these days either way.

Oh yeah, it has Recon 3Di or whatever with THX TruStudio, so it should have the same processing as the Creative Recond 3d usb. 

I'll know soon enough. I didn't even pay attention to that.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I REALLY wish more laptops had HDMI inputs though.  You already payed for the LCD screen, why not be able to use it with other sources?!
> I don't care if takes another $100 to add firmware, inputs, and OSD buttons for the screen or whatever.
> 
> Also, what ever happened to "I'm a console gamer!"
> ...


 
   
  I definitely agree in that more notebooks need video *inputs*, especially the ones that don't settle for crappy TN panels. I mean, if I had the dosh for a powerhouse notebook, I'd probably seek out an old HP EliteBook 8740w with a 1920x1200 DreamColor IPS panel. Last time I checked, those things go for $2,500 minimum, and the underlying hardware's a generation or two old. No HDCP-compliant HDMI input to go with that gorgeous screen, either...
   
  As for the disparity between console and PC gaming...I'm a natural-born tweaker. I want the best experience I can get, and the usual PC complexities don't thwart me one bit. Fiddling with INI files and installing tons of mods is second nature to me, as it gets me closer and closer to that ideal experience.
   
  I mean, I've spent a few hours just programming HOTAS profiles for my flight sims before. (Now that's a genre you practically never see on consoles!) That's one thing I like about PC gaming right there: I can generally get my controls exactly the way I want them, and the right tool for the job is always available. Nothing has to be shoehorned into a stock console gamepad.
   
  It's funny how modern consoles have USB ports as standard, and yet you can't plug in a USB keyboard and mouse to play 'em that way. It used to be that console ports of titles like Half-Life, Quake III Arena, and Unreal Tournament let you use KB+M on the Dreamcast and PS2 if you wanted to.
   
  Of course, I'm still fond of the good old SNES and the days when consoles weren't trying to be PCs in the first place. You popped the cartridge in, flicked the power switch, and you played. No loading, no installing, no firmware updates or patches to download from a service that's much slower than it should be (why can't PSN saturate my download bandwidth like Steam can?), so on and so forth that we've come to expect from the 7th generation of consoles. They've got the complications of PCs now, but little of the actual functionality, in no small part because the manufacturers still insist on telling you what you can and can't do with them. Their business model relies on people paying them for licenses, development kits, and royalties, after all...
   
  Regardless, I'm in this for the games first. If a console gets enough exclusives (or console-only multiplatform releases, for that matter) to warrant owning, I'll eventually plunk down for it. *points to the CECHA PS3*


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SOOOOOOOO...
> 
> I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).
> 
> ...


 
  *kicks u in da FACE* why did you buy alien ware, for some one who likes open cans I don't see you as a portable person. I don't need to tell you, that for the SAME price you could have purcahsed well built your self a desktop taht was twice as powerful as that thing, I mean hell SOME ONE out there is a gpu that has hdmi in, seriously an ALIEN WARE and a LAPTOP my gawd u might has well boutght an Apple Tower ;3
   
  Non I'm still jk with u, I have NO idea about ANYTHING when it comes to laptops... I think they are all a sham anyways, screw portability I want DEPENDIABILITY and for that I use a desktop
   
  also I need to start saving my money so I can get a credit card and make assine purchases and never leave  my house... which will come in time as I make MORE at mah new job. In addition going to get my w1000x recabled here shortly as they need it, such nice cans such a BORING looking cable... PFF screw that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want portability, with desktop type power, which this has. It will also let me free up some very much needed space in my bedroom.

I'd still use my KSC35 when I'm not home anyways.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

I also want a new computer for gaming and other media heavy tasks. Before I wanted a laptop for portability but taking into account that my current laptop doesn't move anyway I don't see the point. Might as well just get a more powerful desktop for less.
   
  Anyway, in order not to derail this thread further I will announce that I've decided that I want a Sennheiser HD800 with a Woo Audio Amp. (These amps are said to tame the treble brightness) But before I buy one I would like to pay off the student loan I owe the state. I'm going to need to work hard for that, lucky for me I have few other responsibilities so if I play my cards right by July I should have that debt paid for; that's what I'm hoping anyway.
   
  I'm also interested in the Audeze (for non-gaming purposes) but the comfort is a concern for me. Right now I'm rocking the Sennheiser Momentum. I like it as a portable headphone (although the clamp is a bit too strong) it has decent bass but it is a bit loose if that makes sense. So far I haven't tried an amp on it; and I probably won't anytime soon, that was the point in buying a portable headphone...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think in terms of a portable headphone, it would have to be incredibly easy to drive, like the Custom One Pro, or Audio Technica ES7, etc
 Headphones not known to scale with amping. Not sure how the Momentum fits in that category. 

For now, I'm just sticking to the now leather LCD2 as my one full sized can. Comfort is spotty, but it's not a torture device, and the sound really makes up for it.

The Koss clips ons will continue to be my go to for portable use. Can't live without them.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think in terms of a portable headphone, it would have to be incredibly easy to drive, like the Custom One Pro, or Audio Technica ES7, etc
> Headphones not known to scale with amping. Not sure how the Momentum fits in that category.
> 
> For now, I'm just sticking to the now leather LCD2 as my one full sized can. Comfort is spotty, but it's not a torture device, and the sound really makes up for it.
> ...


 
  does th e sporta pro sound like the porta pro :O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have the Porta Pro, but I'm 99% sure it's the same driver. Same with the Ksc35. The sound differences is undoubtedly due to the distance and clamp of the drivers.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have the Porta Pro, but I'm 99% sure it's the same driver. Same with the Ksc35. The sound differences is undoubtedly due to the distance and clamp of the drivers.


 
  meh should just get the kcs35 it's clip on so that should be pretty simple and should fit even my ears


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The KSC35 costs twice as much as the Sportapro. I'd honestly get the Sportapro and KSC75. Take the clips off the KSC75 which are much more comfortable than the KSC35's clips, and put them on the Sportapro drivers. That equals a makeshift KSC35, for $10 less, spare KsC75 drivers if you ever need them, and more comfy. Just make sure to bend in the clips to put the drivers closer to the ears (a good tight fit is essential for sound quality).

Also, for some reason, the Sportapro's cable has a better strain relief and right angle plug. The 6.3mm adapter is also amazing (best adapter I've had to date in that its easy to use and doesn't screw on.)

After getting my clips back, I couldnt go back to them. I've gotten so used to using the KSC35/Sportapro drivers on the KSC75 clips. Ridiculous comfort, and immersive sound. The KSC35 clips make them just a hint more balanced, but loses out on the extra body.

So again: Sportapro + KSC75. Snap off drivers from Sportapro headband, take off clips from KSC75. Put the drivers and clips together, enjoy.

The KSC75 alone is also great, but not warm, slightly mid recessed, and a little metallic in the treble. The bass is faster though.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The KSC35 costs twice as much as the Sportapro. I'd honestly get the Sportapro and KSC75. Take the clips off the KSC75 which are much more comfortable than the KSC35's clips, and put them on the Sportapro drivers. That equals a makeshift KSC35, for $10 less, spare KsC75 drivers if you ever need them, and more comfy. Just make sure to bend in the clips to put the drivers closer to the ears (a good tight fit is essential for sound quality).
> 
> Also, for some reason, the Sportapro's cable has a better strain relief and right angle plug. The 6.3mm adapter is also amazing (best adapter I've had to date in that its easy to use and doesn't screw on.)


 
  OH gawd, to much work
   
  any one ever try the iGrado, I was thinking about picking one up and DAMN my indeed is NOISY as crap, which means I really need to look into a better tube as that noise is really getting to me, I miss the WARMTH of the tube but NOT the excessive noise >.> that thing is NOT for sensitive cans xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I edited my last post. Check it.

Too much work? All you have to do is snap off the drivers. It takes two seconds. They just pop off.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> OH gawd, to much work
> 
> any one ever try the iGrado, I was thinking about picking one up and DAMN my indeed is NOISY as crap, which means I really need to look into a better tube as that noise is really getting to me, I miss the WARMTH of the tube but NOT the excessive noise >.> that thing is NOT for sensitive cans xD


 
  I don't necessarily want to send you off on another buying spree, but I think the noise is due to the Indeed circuit, not the tube. After the first minute or two warming up, Zigis' amp is basically background noise-free. I've only used decent tubes with it (a generic Amperex made in Holland circa 1970, a Sylvania JAN 6DJ8 of unknown vintage, two 1970's Amperex Bugle Boys, and 4 Russian Vokshod 6N23P tubes), but none have been noisy. The Q701 might have dampened the background noise somewhat, but 62 Ohm impedance isn't exactly a high dampening factor.
   
  On another note, right now is an exciting time for graphics cards. New nVidia cards have just been released within the mid-range budget, and are reducing the prices for some quite competent graphics. I'm having a hard time picking between a $180 GTX 570 with a $30 rebate, the new $175 GTX 650 Ti Boost, or a $205 GTX 660 with a $20 rebate. Kiiiinda wanna pick the cheapest, and then snag the next X-Fi Ti HD sale or a Z-series sound card, but it might also be good to stretch my budget just a little for the GTX 660 with better power consumption rating. We be doing some immersive gaming soon, neh?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Radeon 7970 GOGOGO. 

Oh wait, I dunno about the desktop versions.

I'll be sending back the 128gb Samsung 840 Pro SSD and ordered the 256gb version. It has a noticeable jump in write speed, and double the cache. Didn't wanna gimp myself.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SOOOOOOOO...
> 
> I bought an Alienware M17x R4 laptop. Yeah, yeah, overpriced. Why did I get it? One main reason:* It has an HDMI input*. I absolutely can't find another laptop with an Hdmi INPUT (meaning that I can plug in my PS3, etc to it's display).
> 
> ...


 


 M17 R4 is a sexy beast, it's got a very nice screen as well. Not exactly IPS panel quality, but a very nice screen regardless. The keyboard is also well above average comfort wise.

 If you're looking for something free to play that will blow your eyeballs out with PC glory, check out Mechwarrior Online (runs on CryEngine 3 just like Crysis 3 does) The audio isn't anything to write home about though, sadly. Their idea of game audio with enormous robots is WHUMP WHUMP WHUMP THUD THUD THUD, but once you turn the bass way down the rest of the game sounds like what I'd say is above average.

 Also Planetside 2 is absolutely worth looking at even though the framerate tanks as soon as you get into a big battle. Quite satisfying to roll in alongside a multi-platoon zerg that's fielding hundreds of tanks and aircraft. Also, you will die an insultingly large amount of times. If you've ever yelled at your screen in a singleplayer game for NPC enemies having crazy laser x-ray vision imagine a hundred people eyes peeled on the base perimeter all with the ability to tag your position for several seconds.

 P.S. I know you're a Zircon fan, so if you haven't tried listening to his new album Identity Sequence on the LCD-2s yet... do it. I have a friend with the LCDs and he has an addiction... a several repeats a day addiction for over three months that I'm responsible for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I bought Zircon's first CD. Been awhile, lol.

So far the Mad Dogs haven't left me impressed for gaming. Soundstage is small, and the sound isn't immersive to say the least. It's pretty neutral sounding and linear, but lacks the body and power of the LCD2. Positional cues are decent at best. If I had to rate it right now, I'd say: Fun: 6.5, Competitive: 6.5.

Just one of those headphones that works better for music, and not virtual surround gaming. This is just typical deficiencies of very closed and isolating headphones, for the most part. Basically a more detailed and neutral M50 in terms of what I can compare it to for gaming.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I bought Zircon's first CD. Been awhile, lol.


 
   
  FYI his Bandcamp page is http://zirconstudios.bandcamp.com/

 PrototypeRaptor has a brand new album out too on his page - http://prototyperaptor.bandcamp.com/

 Lots of Overclocked Remix talent topping the Bandcamp charts lately, and only part of it is due to the entrenched fandom


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Radeon 7970 GOGOGO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  A little out of my budget ATM... cheapest one is $420, over double what I'm willing to pay. PS what's the price difference on that SSD from the smaller sized drive? $70? Either one will be way faster than anything you've experienced on PS3 or Xbox, mostly you'll have 1/4 less time to read the things on a loading screen. With my early 6G Sata III SSD, games load in like 3 seconds, but a larger drive helps maintain that speed longer.
   
  I'll have to check out that Zircon CD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, just went 35-5 on CoD4 TDM. The Mad Dogs are pretty clear. I guess that helps for competitive gaming, but I wouldn't count much on actual positional accuracy in comparison to some of the higher rated cans.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I don't necessarily want to send you off on another buying spree, but I think the noise is due to the Indeed circuit, not the tube. After the first minute or two warming up, Zigis' amp is basically background noise-free. I've only used decent tubes with it (a generic Amperex made in Holland circa 1970, a Sylvania JAN 6DJ8 of unknown vintage, two 1970's Amperex Bugle Boys, and 4 Russian Vokshod 6N23P tubes), but none have been noisy. The Q701 might have dampened the background noise somewhat, but 62 Ohm impedance isn't exactly a high dampening factor.
> 
> On another note, right now is an exciting time for graphics cards. New nVidia cards have just been released within the mid-range budget, and are reducing the prices for some quite competent graphics. I'm having a hard time picking between a $180 GTX 570 with a $30 rebate, the new $175 GTX 650 Ti Boost, or a $205 GTX 660 with a $20 rebate. Kiiiinda wanna pick the cheapest, and then snag the next X-Fi Ti HD sale or a Z-series sound card, but it might also be good to stretch my budget just a little for the GTX 660 with better power consumption rating. We be doing some immersive gaming soon, neh?


 
  oh lawl, when I said tube I meant Tube amp. I'm well aware that it's not the tube it self but as you said the Indeed amp circuit. I need a new TUBE amp lol,
   
  AN as far as gamin goes, since monster hunter has come out I don't really pc game all that much... I might hit up some fire fall but that looks just fine at mid graphics with 1920 1080


----------



## HopeSilent

Picked up a 5.8 mixamp as well for $90, description said rarely used, like new condition so I think I did pretty well there. Should arrive next Wednesday like the Pro 900's, pretty pumped to get everything set up. Also picking up a battery pack, ps3 chat cable and possibly the belt clip.


----------



## Roger de Ceiba

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think in terms of a portable headphone, it would have to be incredibly easy to drive, like the Custom One Pro, or Audio Technica ES7, etc
> Headphones not known to scale with amping. Not sure how the Momentum fits in that category.
> 
> For now, I'm just sticking to the now leather LCD2 as my one full sized can. Comfort is spotty, but it's not a torture device, and the sound really makes up for it.
> ...


 

 The momentum has an 18 ohm impedance that is supposed to get it to decent listening levels without much power (i.e. with any other phone out there or Portable gaming console). I also wanted something that sounded well enough with most songs (not just artificial bass that serves for electronic music which seems to be the case with most portable headphones out there) and the Momentum seemed to fit the bill. Keep in mind, I read dozens of reviews and impressions of portable headphones before deciding to buy this pair. Nevertheless, I feel like I've paid at least $50 extra than I should have because of the whole "lifestyle headphone" moniker.


----------



## SoAmusing777

I just wanted to say something about AKG. They are backed up right now with the "new system", about 3 weeks out. 15th business day before my headphones were looked at. At one time they were 1.5months out. I've been pestering them, so it finally got through today. The biggest thing I remember the actual tech that tested my headphones said was that he does a low frequency sweep to see if the drivers rattle, then a complete sweep, and if nothing is wrong still, he'll listen to some music. If nothing sounds up at that point, he calls the customer to figure out what he/she was hearing, lol. He did say the headphones were like, around 60ohms and later said 75ohms, so that rated impedance of 62ohms seems pretty accurate. He did say that people call in not just floored with the sounds they are getting, and he said they reason for that was they weren't adequately driven. I told him I have a receiver, but he said that the power output to the receiver headphone jack may be pretty weak, so =/ Anybody care to share some knowledge on this?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> I just wanted to say something about AKG. They are backed up right now with the "new system", about 3 weeks out. 15th business day before my headphones were looked at. At one time they were 1.5months out. I've been pestering them, so it finally got through today. The biggest thing I remember the actual tech that tested my headphones said was that he does a low frequency sweep to see if the drivers rattle, then a complete sweep, and if nothing is wrong still, he'll listen to some music. If nothing sounds up at that point, he calls the customer to figure out what he/she was hearing, lol. He did say the headphones were like, around 60ohms and later said 75ohms, so that rated impedance of 62ohms seems pretty accurate. He did say that people call in not just floored with the sounds they are getting, and he said they reason for that was they weren't adequately driven. I told him I have a receiver, but he said that the power output to the receiver headphone jack may be pretty weak, so =/ Anybody care to share some knowledge on this?


 
   
  Hmm...you sent your AKGs in?  What for?
   
  I'm getting ready to send mine in because one of the drivers has a minor rattle.  Not happy to hear that their turnaround time is so slow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The receiver not powering the headphone thing is probably related to the output impedance on the receivers HP jack, and how some power is being lost there.  I don't know all the technical details (something about impedance, resistance, damping factor, etc.) but it's been discussed in this thread before I think.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Out of my Marantz, the Annie sounded nearly as good as out of my Compass 2...


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Out of my Marantz, the Annie sounded nearly as good as out of my Compass 2...


 
  Marantz are supposed to be higher end than typical receivers... but I have been using my dedicated tube amp. It's smaller and easier to have on my desk anyway. Did you ever solve the HDMI issue you were having with your PS3? I was looking forward to the future and trying to make plans, though obviously I'd like an option that accepts multiple surround inputs (not playing at the same time, but able to switch inputs without unplugging).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, haven't bothered since. Connect my ps3's hdmi to the tv, amd optical to the receiver. For the purpose of Dolby Headpnone, I'd only get regular Dolby Digital anyways. It would have been using having less cables though.

We'll see how the ps4 fares.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Hmm...you sent your AKGs in?  What for?
> 
> I'm getting ready to send mine in because one of the drivers has a minor rattle.  Not happy to hear that their turnaround time is so slow
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was worried my bro effd them up turning on Windows at 100% volume. I woke up to that and was pissed. I also had not monitored his use so idk what else happened to them if anything. They sounded kinda off to me one day, but that doesn't mean anything. I just sent them in just in case. It cost me quite a bit, because I put $500 insurance on it, but peace of mind that nothing is wrong with them is golden. I also know they can take a beating sonically too. 

 Yeah, it blows. I've really missed them a lot. Glad to get them back next week.

 I just wonder if the AVR 254 is fine to power them. I mean, a receiver is the only thing that will get uncompressed out of my PS3, but it would suck to have to get an amp too. I don't know either, and yeah, it was discussed earlier, although I have no clue what it was now.


----------



## tmaxx123

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Radeon 7970 GOGOGO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  loving my 512gb 840 pro in my m14x r2  blazing fast read and writes. there was a sale on newegg on all the pro drives, i hope you got in on one of those!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got mine from Amazon, as it was still cheaper.


----------



## 3X0

The tendency to hear the noise floor of your device is dependent not only upon the impedance of your headphones but also their sensitivity.

My JH13s are the only headphones that pick up hiss on my Nova. My Grado HF-2, A900X and even Image X10 do not. Not terribly surprising since my JH13s have both the lowest impedance (28 ohms) and the highest sensitivity (112dB/mW). In addition to low buzzing in the right channel they are too loud as soon as the volume knob hits audibility.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I realize that now that I don't have the Mixamp, I won't be able to let you all know if any future headphones I review will need additional amping or not including voice chat or not.


HUH! This is odd. So I buzzed my hair off (the usual), and the Mad Dogs are now DEFINITELY gripping my head better and sealing better. The hint of sibilance is lessened, and the sound is fuller. THIS is what I expected the Mad Dogs to sound like. Before I thought they were brighter than the LCD2. No more. Now it's definitely on the dark side.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I realize that now that I don't have the Mixamp, I won't be able to let you all know if any future headphones I review will need additional amping or not including voice chat or not.


 
  After testing it out I now see the difference between DH on the mixamp and virtual surround on the Recon. This was a great recommendation and thanks for the great deal! It took some getting used to, at first... but a definite upgrade, indeed!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool, more impressions please!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Cool, more impressions please!


 
  Will do... I plan on having a long gaming session, tonight, on my PS3. I just want to make sure I have it hooked up, correctly. All I need connected are the optical cable, usb, and y splitter for the PS3... correct?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, and make sure the sound settings on the PS3 is set to Dolby Digital out of the spdif/optical...


----------



## zoqi

Is it possible to output Dolby Headphone from Asus DGX through optical out? I'd like to take advantage of headphone surround virtualization, but use my external DAC and AMP for the actual output.

EDIT:
Or are there any other soundcards that will allow me to do this?


----------



## zx6guy

The stock Astro controller cable occasionally makes noise when I move it around (mixamp with xbox).  I bought a replacement Turtle Beach puck because I thought the extra stability would quiet it down but instead it sounds like a bowl of Rice Kipsies that won’t get soggy.  It’s really too bad because I was looking forward to having a mic mute.  
   
  I acknowledge the connector in my controller has probably seen better days (I think it’s over 4 years old now) and the huge number of plugging and unplugging cycles have probably worn it out.  I’ve thought about replacing it with either a Scuf or a stock replacement but with the new systems coming out... 
   
  Do you guys all use the stock Astro controller cable without issue or do you use something else?  Are there any other options out there for pucks?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





zoqi said:


> Is it possible to output Dolby Headphone from Asus DGX through optical out? I'd like to take advantage of headphone surround virtualization, but use my external DAC and AMP for the actual output.
> 
> EDIT:
> Or are there any other soundcards that will allow me to do this?


 
   
  I can't confirm it myself (no Xonar or other C-Media chipset cards in my possession), but I do recall PurpleAngel suggesting it was possible to send a DH mix through S/PDIF.
   
  What I can confirm is that X-Fi cards will send a CMSS-3D Headphone mix through S/PDIF.


----------



## zoqi

namelesspfg said:


> I can't confirm it myself (no Xonar or other C-Media chipset cards in my possession), but I do recall PurpleAngel suggesting it was possible to send a DH mix through S/PDIF.
> 
> What I can confirm is that X-Fi cards will send a CMSS-3D Headphone mix through S/PDIF.




Thanks for the reply and information about the X-Fi, do you know if this is the case with the new SB Z as well? (Core 3D)


----------



## SoAmusing777

So, anybody have info on if the AVR 254 is going to properly drive the Annies?


----------



## NamelessPFG

zoqi said:


> Thanks for the reply and information about the X-Fi, do you know if this is the case with the new SB Z as well? (Core 3D)



I can't confirm or deny that THX/SBX Pro Surround carries through S/PDIF output on Sound Core3D devices. My Recon3D USB has no such output.

However, I would expect it to work.


----------



## Impulse

zoqi said:


> Is it possible to output Dolby Headphone from Asus DGX through optical out? I'd like to take advantage of headphone surround virtualization, but use my external DAC and AMP for the actual output.
> 
> EDIT:
> Or are there any other soundcards that will allow me to do this?




My STX can output a DH processed signal over optical, and it shared a common driver base with the DG... I think I've seen confirmation for this on the DG too, dunno about the DGX, but it's just a PCI-E DG. Do note that early driver releases on my STX didn't support this, but since the DGX is newer I doubt you'll find conflicting reports on it like the STX/DG.


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> So far the Mad Dogs haven't left me impressed for gaming. Soundstage is small, and the sound isn't immersive to say the least. It's pretty neutral sounding and linear, but lacks the body and power of the LCD2. Positional cues are decent at best. If I had to rate it right now, I'd say: Fun: 6.5, Competitive: 6.5.
> 
> Just one of those headphones that works better for music, and not virtual surround gaming. This is just typical deficiencies of very closed and isolating headphones, for the most part. Basically a more detailed and neutral M50 in terms of what I can compare it to for gaming.







mad lust envy said:


> HUH! This is odd. So I buzzed my hair off (the usual), and the Mad Dogs are now DEFINITELY gripping my head better and sealing better. The hint of sibilance is lessened, and the sound is fuller. THIS is what I expected the Mad Dogs to sound like. Before I thought they were brighter than the LCD2. No more. Now it's definitely on the dark side.





Was your hair affecting the pad's seal or something? I guess you'd rate their fun factor a little higher now? Btw, I've read on the Mad Dog's thread that you can adjust the clamp significantly (either for more or less of it) as the Fostex headband has some give... I think Dan even made a video instructing how to slide the comfort strap aside to do this. Obviously you wouldn't wanna do any of that to Matt's pair but it seems they are pretty adjustable.

Edit: Heh, just went on to read the MD thread and noticed all this was said there already. I've been sick and haven't even had the energy to grab my tablet and read, bleh.

I know you commented on comfort earlier but how do you find them for laying back and watching TV/movies? Are they too heavy? If I get a pair I wouldn't be using them for like action movies or anything, more like for dialog heavy TV shows and watching NBA games late at night. I was surprised at the picture you posted of them next to the LCD2, didn't realize the MD were quite so large... 

Are you planning on doing a full review after you're done with the LCDs? Thanks for all the impressions, I appreciate it even if they aren't ideal gaming headphones, since I'm interested in them for music/TV.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I realize that now that I don't have the Mixamp, I won't be able to let you all know if any future headphones I review will need additional amping or not including voice chat or not.
> 
> HUH! This is odd. So I buzzed my hair off (the usual), and the Mad Dogs are now DEFINITELY gripping my head better and sealing better. The hint of sibilance is lessened, and the sound is fuller. THIS is what I expected the Mad Dogs to sound like. Before I thought they were brighter than the LCD2. No more. Now it's definitely on the dark side.



Well, I think you've (mostly) moved on to the price bracket of headphones that require good amping. Barring exceptions, like that SLYR that was sent to you with the little mixr thingie included (that had some kind of amp, right?). IMO not a big deal.

I was thinking of getting my hair cut short, almost military req's, since longish hair with thinning coverage starts to approach comb-over territory, and I have too much self confidence for that ;D Right now my hair is like 3"-4"



zx6guy said:


> The stock Astro controller cable occasionally makes noise when I move it around (mixamp with xbox).  I bought a replacement Turtle Beach puck because I thought the extra stability would quiet it down but instead it sounds like a bowl of Rice Kipsies that won’t get soggy.  It’s really too bad because I was looking forward to having a mic mute.
> 
> I acknowledge the connector in my controller has probably seen better days (I think it’s over 4 years old now) and the huge number of plugging and unplugging cycles have probably worn it out.  I’ve thought about replacing it with either a Scuf or a stock replacement but with the new systems coming out...
> 
> Do you guys all use the stock Astro controller cable without issue or do you use something else?  Are there any other options out there for pucks?



Sometimes cables wear out, but I definitely noticed a mic improvement against the cracklies once I picked up a new controller. When I think back about how long I've had my controllers and how much I've used them (and we tend to apply a fair amount of force to them), I'm actually impressed at the durability of the stock controllers. What's a Scuf?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So far the Mad Dog is like a 7 and 6.5 to me. Still very closed, and gets a bit too hot for me to be comfortable. I can't relax with a pair of closed leather cans that isolate like this. 

It sounds like a closed HD650. For that money, I would just rather get an HD650, or save up for the Annies. I prefer both over the MD. The MD is pretty great for a closed can if you want dark neutrality. Definitely not for everyone.

They ARE very good sounding cans with rich mids. But closed headphones don't do it for me, especially not without velours.


----------



## Change is Good

I have a question about the DSS. Is it possible to use a y-splitter for chat like on the mixamp? I am curious to also try the DSS, especially for the bargain prices I am finding... but chat is important.
   
  Also, I am not that skilled at describing sound. Still, I will try to give my best initial impressions of the 2011 mixamp after my gaming session... and compare it to the Recon3d. I know most has been covered, already... but I'm sure others would like more input when comparing the two.
   
  I have long night of BF3 ahead of me, thanks to MLE sending me this mixamp so quickly. Here's to me not losing any limbs... or ears... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Battlefield 3 is terrible for virtual surround, btw. Not a good game to demo. Sound quality is great, positional cues...aren't. 

The DSS does not work with a y splitter.


----------



## Change is Good

Damn... bummer 2x
   
   Any other games you recommend that would be best to demo? I have a pic that I think shows most of the ones I have.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bar none, the first two Modern Warfare games in multiplayer. Because those games aren't as chaotic as the latter ones, positional cues really pop out. Like a sniper picking people off on the other side of a long street. You can really pick out what direction people are shooting from, and footsteps. I've been called a cheater multiple times because of being able to tell when someone is walking through a door before they show up.

Those games are real cheap at Gamestop if you don't have them.

Has to be multiplayer though. The single player is a mess of action, and impossible to locate anything. 

The first Black Ops is good too, but not as clear as the MWs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course there are plenty of single player games like Mass Effect 2 that does positional cues well too, but it's not as easy to get random cues around you, since most of the action is funneled in front of you. Multiplayer games tend to do better because not everyone is paying attention to just you.

As for the MW games, MW2 has a lot of cheaters online, so don't get mad. Radar hacks, speed glitches, auto aim, etc. Sucks, but some rooms dont have that. The first MW has much less cheating... though positional cues are slightly inferior to MW2.


----------



## Change is Good

I see. Now I understand why you say BF3 is terrible to demo for virtual surround. It is definitely a warzone full of explosions. Even so... I noticed a huge significance in a rare moment when things were quiet while sniping. I heard an enemy from the rear. I forget which direction it was from... but clearly knew exactly where he was when using the mixamp. I surprised him, actually lol


----------



## Change is Good

As for single player games, I don't have Mass Effect 2... but I think Hitman Absolution would be ideal to demo for virtual surround. It's not random... but since it's stealth I will be able to sneak around and hear enemy conversations while turned away. Thanks for clearing that up for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hopefully. Remember, not all games are created equal in terms of positional cues. Sound engines are like graphic engines. You have your Unreal 3, and you have your Frostbite 2 of sound.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I see. Now I understand why you say BF3 is terrible to demo for virtual surround. It is definitely a warzone full of explosions. Even so... I noticed a huge significance in a rare moment when things were quiet while sniping. I heard an enemy from the rear. I forget which direction it was from... but clearly knew exactly where he was when using the mixamp. I surprised him, actually lol


 
   
  If it's like BF: Bad Company 2 (which it probably is, given the Frostbite engine), then the positioning just plain sucks, regardless of how much chaos is going on. It can be totally quiet, and I'll throw a grenade off in a random direction, turn around to test the positional audio, and...hear pre-panned effects that don't tell me where it exploded at all.
   
  Quite irritating given that the actual sound samples are great, and the Refractor engine used in the older titles had spot-on positioning thanks to the usual DirectSound3D and OpenAL APIs for PC games at the time.
   
  Even more recent PC games with the usual software audio mixers that aren't on DS3D/OAL-level positioning do better than the Frostbite engine at actually making positional audio cues clear; PlanetSide 2 and Dead Island are among the more prominent examples out of what I've recently played.
   
  Sure, you're a console gamer like Mad Lust Envy, but the point is that even on consoles, the software mixers used are not equal, just as MLE says above.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One example of bad audio is Uncharted 3. No matter what settings I used, positional cues were terrible.


----------



## tmaxx123

After alot of gameplay and getting acquainted with the frostbite engine I find battlefield 3 online to be better than blops2 and Crysis 3 when looking for positional cues. I am able to hear enemies from much further away, and can pinpoint fairly accurately their direction. Blops2 requires enemies to be extremely close to you and Crysis 3 is better than blops2 but is not as refined or accurate with the cues as bf3. 

Just my experience playing on ps3. Modern warfare 2 still holds.the crown imo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Blops 2 wasn't good for audio at all for me. It seems every game released in CoD gets worse and worse in terms of audio, and it's importance.


----------



## Change is Good

Ok I get what you guys are saying. Different engines for different games, not only in graphics but in sound as well. *smacks myself on the head* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I can still tell a significant difference, however, between the mixamp and the recon3d while I was playing BF3. My surroundings were more open and distant. It was slightly compressed and louder when I used the recon (my THX settings were Surround at 100%, Crystalizer off, Bass boost 60%, Smart volume on loud, and Dialogue Plus on for movies). While playing Hitman, with the mixamp, I was able to clearly point out positional cues. This was not so with the recon3d.  I really got to truly feel the 5.1/7.1 experience for the first time (the 2011 mixamp is 7.1 right?). Rear positional cues were easily distinguished whether it be upper right, bottem left, etc.
   
  In contrast, for movies, this is where I think I prefer the recon. Smart Volume and Dialogue Plus came in handy at times like this. I like to hear everything clearly... and loud like I'm at the movies. Having Smart Volume on loud, and Dialougue Plus on allowed that to happen for me. The mixamp is ok... but the mids are certainly lacking. Backround music didn't really grasp me, to be honest. This is where the recon's adjustments made it beneficial, Dialogue Plus basically speaks for itself: makes voices sound clear in movies (the mixamp's dialogue is clearer, though, and does not have these additional adjustments). Smart Volume on normal is where I find the sound similar to the mixamp (lacking mids). But like I said before, Smart Volume on loud fixes that issue. Again, this was only when watching movies. For gaming, the mixamp is superior, imo... because the Smart Volume when on tends to affect the soundstage.
   
  In the end, I mainly just play games... so the mixamp is the winner for me. Amazon is willing to give me a partial refund for the recon, which will almost equal what I paid for the mixamp. Even trade in my eyes. Also, having the chat mixer on the mixamp was a plus for me to go along with the option of volume control through an additional amp. Now I can hear my friends through all the chaos... and still enjoy the full surround sound.
   
  I do plan on upgrading to the 2013 mixamp in the future, though. From what I read, even with the hiss, all those additional features for different occasions combine all of the best qualities of the 2011 mixamp and the recon3d both... possibly for me, atleast.


----------



## Genfres

Hi guys, I am looking for some help on two things.
   
  1) My girlfriend really wants a wireless headset. I think its mainly because I keep tripping over her headset cables and pulling it out. We have seen the Logitech H800 http://www.logitech.com/en-roeu/product/wireless-headset-h800.. what are your thoughts on this? Any alternatives around the same price range?
   
  2) I am looking for a microphone for youtube recording that won't blow the budget. I have seen the Zalman clip style microphones but I don't want a microphone that is low sensitivity and picks up alot of noise. So basically is it worth looking into a condenser microphone for $100 more? Or any microphones around $50 US with good quality?
   
  Thanks for the help in advance =D


----------



## SoAmusing777

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23gKZYsH-E - For those of you looking at the Cross Platform Audio Mixer from Steelseries, here's a little more info. 9ft long headphone cable and 3ft long usb. Go to the 3min mark to learn about the Mixer. Seems to be pretty awesome!

 Also, no one answered my question. I'm guessing I don't need anything besides my receiver with the Annies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, the first/2nd gen Mixamp and 2013 Mixamp/5.8 sound exactly the same virtual surround wise, despite the formers being (5.1) and latters being 7.1. You have to remember, optical is Dolby Digital /DTS 5.1, not 7.1 Whether the new ones matrix in rear channels or not doesn't make a lick of difference as they are still getting information from 5.1 source. The old ones did rear cues just as well. Compared directly, couldn't tell the difference.

The 2013 Mixamp is good if you want EQ-presets. I personally don't like to use any EQ and keep it on the flat setting, so all I'd need is the 2011 Mixamp, personally. EQ tends to ruin SQ more often than not. The only time I think EQ is fine is if there is a deficiency in a headphone's sound, like adding bass to the AD700, or reducing treble in the DT990. For something like the Annie, I wouldn't want to add or take any anything. That headphone has a perfect balance, IMHO. Adding bass will take away from it's mids...

Anyways, so it seems my M17x has an optical out. That pleases me. Also, what do you guys know about auto-sensing line out on the headphone jacks? Apparently the laptop has it, but I wouldn't know how that'd work, though I assume it will turn off volume control somehow. At least I'll be able to compare between the sound card (_Creative Sound Blaster Recon3Di High-Definition 5.1 Audio with THX TruStudio Pro Software) - Audio Powered by Klipsch®_) and my Compass 2/Marantz.



> (3x) Auto-sensing jacks for Line-out (2 line out; 1x SPDIF/Headphone)


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> After alot of gameplay and getting acquainted with the frostbite engine I find battlefield 3 online to be better than blops2 and Crysis 3 when looking for positional cues. I am able to hear enemies from much further away, and can pinpoint fairly accurately their direction. Blops2 requires enemies to be extremely close to you and Crysis 3 is better than blops2 but is not as refined or accurate with the cues as bf3.
> 
> Just my experience playing on ps3. Modern warfare 2 still holds.the crown imo


 
   
  Personally I have a lot of fun in Crysis 3 with the maxed out Hunter perk... it's 100% made for audiowhoring and gives you clear audio blips in the direction of nearby enemies, no matter what you think of the rest of the multiplayer.


----------



## tmaxx123

mad lust envy said:


> Change, the first/2nd gen Mixamp and 2013 Mixamp/5.8 sound exactly the same virtual surround wise, despite the formers being (5.1) and latters being 7.1. You have to remember, optical is Dolby Digital /DTS 5.1, not 7.1 Whether the new ones matrix in rear channels or not doesn't make a lick of difference as they are still getting information from 5.1 source. The old ones did rear cues just as well. Compared directly, couldn't tell the difference.
> 
> The 2013 Mixamp is good if you want EQ-presets. I personally don't like to use any EQ and keep it on the flat setting, so all I'd need is the 2011 Mixamp, personally. EQ tends to ruin SQ more often than not. The only time I think EQ is fine is if there is a deficiency in a headphone's sound, like adding bass to the AD700, or reducing treble in the DT990. For something like the Annie, I wouldn't want to add or take any anything. That headphone has a perfect balance, IMHO. Adding bass will take away from it's mids...
> 
> Anyways, so it seems my M17x has an optical out. That pleases me. Also, what do you guys know about auto-sensing line out on the headphone jacks? Apparently the laptop has it, but I wouldn't know how that'd work, though I assume it will turn off volume control somehow. At least I'll be able to compare between the sound card (_Creative Sound Blaster Recon3Di High-Definition 5.1 Audio with THX TruStudio Pro Software) - Audio Powered by Klipsch®_) and my Compass 2/Marantz.




My m14x has a similar audio setup as your laptop. Has the same sound card and software and also has the klipsch speakers. As far as I know, the auto-sensing line out just means that when you plug anything into the jack, it automatically switches to outputting audio through there. I am still in the process of figuring out how to make use of that s-pdif output with my mixamp though. Mad, keep us updated on what adapters/cables you need to run that optical signal to get a Dolby signal out of your laptop.


----------



## SniperCzar

My Dell XPS has three jacks, it gives me the option for optical out as soon as I plug a mini-TOSLINK in but only the middle port.


----------



## jorgevelez666

Hi everyone, i have a few doubts, first i'm trying to buy a new headset mainly to play battlefield on PC, 'cause i have a turtlebeach px21 and on ps3 were ok, but on pc they suck. So i know that the best choice are the ADH-A700 but since they are 3.5mm i assume that a 7.1 dedicated soundcard is needed, and i only have around the 100 U$ for the headset so... Then i thought about getting a virtual 7.1 headset like the logitech g35 or g930, but i'm not sure. The reviews i've seen say that the virtual surround is bad. And that's the main reason why i'm here, which headset do you recommend me to buy, since my board only has 5.1 realtek sound  , thx!


----------



## BradHP

I have the JVC HA-RX700 and was looking for a mic to go with them (to talk to my team during online gaming).  I wanted the DX mini clip-on mic recommended in the OP, but it's been out of stock for the past 2 weeks.  Is there anything else that compares to the quality near that price?


----------



## tmaxx123

anyone have any input on which usb soundcard might be best to hook up a laptop to a astro mixamp?
   
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Creative-Labs-Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-Surround-5-1-Pro-24-bit-USB-External-Sound-/160727974036?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item256c224094
   
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O
   
  my two options as of now...


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Damn... bummer 2x
> 
> Any other games you recommend that would be best to demo? I have a pic that I think shows most of the ones I have.



The Resident Evil 6 demo was pretty cool. Both of the Batman: Arkham games are good, I liked Elder Scrolls: Oblivion (I own Skyrim, in my backlog), CoD4 MW is great, Halo Reach in SWAT is great, Halo 4 is about as good but the warthogs are unusually loud and both halo games oddly lack volume control (which will be no problem balancing with chat since you have a Mixamp anyway), I haven't tried Hitman or Splinter Cell games yet but I expect them to be awesome, the first two Dead Space games I've played were pretty awesome and scarier, Assassin's Creed is alright (playing the 1st one now, the second game was awesome, played it before I had surround tho), surround made the trapped souls in DMC blatantly clear where to find them (tho no height cues), aaaaaand... I dunno, that's a pretty fair list. OOH! And also Bioshock, go back and play the first one, ah-MAZING! Can't wait to try Infinity 

These were all played on my Recon3D or the accurate but echo-y Silent Cinema that came on my receiver. BTW I would use very little Smart Volume if you value good distance cues and a good surround mix... I think even Dialogue Plus has a trade-off on distorting the surround processing, but I use a bit of it anyway just cuz I need help understanding speech, even in real life. My hearing is articulate for noises and sounds, but sometimes my brain just doesn't translate one word in a sentence...



mad lust envy said:


> Hopefully. Remember, not all games are created equal in terms of positional cues. Sound engines are like graphic engines. You have your Unreal 3, and you have your Frostbite 2 of sound.



Tho ironically, unreal 3 games have better positional audio than Frostbite 2, lol. I hope the Unreal 4 Engine does a good job with sound.



bradhp said:


> I have the JVC HA-RX700 and was looking for a mic to go with them (to talk to my team during online gaming).  I wanted the DX mini clip-on mic recommended in the OP, but it's been out of stock for the past 2 weeks.  Is there anything else that compares to the quality near that price?



Yeah, I took a chance on some random lapel mic on Amazon, got a three pack because I half expected one to be bad, but they were all great.

Jorgevelez,
Look in my journal thread (linked in my signature) to read about virtual surround, and decide for yourself if it works. I think the evidence is compelling, but I also linked two different samples. The AD700 (Audio Technica ATH-AD700 Air) are very lean in bass, but will have better soundstage and detail than the Logitech headsets you mentioned, plus they don't make your ears as hot  I liked using my Recon3D USB for both PC and consoles, it's a good cross-platform option, but if you just need something cheaper for PC you could get a Creative "X-Fi Go! Pro" or Asus "Xonar U3" USB dongle for surround processing.
I've found Realtek onboard sound adequate for casual gaming, but there are pretty evident distortions and interference problems that happen sometimes. It may have 3 separate output plugs for 5.1 surround, but it probably doesn't process game 5.1 virtual surround on it's own.


----------



## Evshrug

tmaxx123 said:


> anyone have any input on which usb soundcard might be best to hook up a laptop to a astro mixamp?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Creative-Labs-Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-Surround-5-1-Pro-24-bit-USB-External-Sound-/160727974036?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item256c224094
> 
> ...




I had the Recon3D USB, it's the better gaming option and does everything the X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro does for movies and music. You wouldn't connect the Recon3D USB to the Mixamp because it's essentially the same type of device (DAC and surround processor with volume controls) and the Recon3D USB only has a headphone jack for output with the virtual surround already baked in, same as the Mixamp. Both could benefit from a nice headphone amp when using nicer headphones.
The Surround 5.1 Pro apparently has an optical-out (SPDIF/TOSLINK), but it also wouldn't need to connect to a Mixamp for virtual surround to a headphone. I don't know if the Surround 5.1 Pro could output Dolby Digital Live through it's optical-out anyway, which the Mixamp needs for it's surround processing.

Thing is... The Recon3D USB is a compromise that does an admirable job providing surround + chat for a laptop, desktop PC, or gaming console. IMO, the X-Fi Go Pro is the best portable option with a laptop, a flagship soundcard provides the best sound quality for a desktop, and a HT receiver with virtual surround (as an option when you can't use speakers) is the most convenient option for a game console. If your budget or living space prevents you from having all three options, the Recon3D USB covers all that for you. In your case, if you just have a laptop & already have a Mixamp, I'd say just get the X-Fi Go Pro.


----------



## Impulse

jorgevelez666 said:


> Hi everyone, i have a few doubts, first i'm trying to buy a new headset mainly to play battlefield on PC, 'cause i have a turtlebeach px21 and on ps3 were ok, but on pc they suck. So i know that the best choice are the ADH-A700 but since they are 3.5mm i assume that a 7.1 dedicated soundcard is needed, and i only have around the 100 U$ for the headset so... Then i thought about getting a virtual 7.1 headset like the logitech g35 or g930, but i'm not sure. The reviews i've seen say that the virtual surround is bad. And that's the main reason why i'm here, which headset do you recommend me to buy, since my board only has 5.1 realtek sound  , thx!




Just get a Xonar DGX, or if you're running a laptop then one of the USB options Evshrug mentioned... The DGX is a better long term solution IMO tho, I thought they were still up near $60 but I just noticed it's $40 at Amazon, check camelcamelcamel for pricing history, might've even gone cheaper

If you can't afford it now I'd still get a regular pair of solid stereo headphones and then worry about you source/card later... Most headsets aren't worth even half of what they charge for them, with very very few exceptions (Plyr, Senn PC360, etc.).

Too many companies with little to no audio experience trying to market overpriced headsets to gamers...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Or get a nice soundcard and a pair of KSC75s for now. You can never go wrong with a KSC75. Or even better if you have like $35, get a KSC75, and Sportapro. Remove the clips off the KSC75, snap off the drivers off the Sportapros, and attach the clips to them. Voila. KSC35 with comfier clips.


----------



## Impulse

I'd probably suggest a cheap full size hp (RX700, Samson SR850) + the DGX before spending $35 on two pairs of Koss... Not that it isn't worth it, but not everyone enjoys clip ons as much as you.  I actually find them more uncomfortable over time than IEM even. I still use mine a lot outdoors and I'd easily pay $20 for them tho they're usually cheaper. That's neither here nor there tho.

Frankly I think people are pushed way too much towards the AD700, if gaming's ALL they're gonna be used for and it's within budget then sure... But something like the SR850 might be preferable overall to many on a budget (if they're not treble sensitive, or the JVC RX700 if positioning isn't the biggest priority). Heck, you can often get used HD558's for what the AD700 cost...


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





soamusing777 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23gKZYsH-E - For those of you looking at the Cross Platform Audio Mixer from Steelseries, here's a little more info. 9ft long headphone cable and 3ft long usb. Go to the 3min mark to learn about the Mixer. Seems to be pretty awesome!
> 
> Also, no one answered my question. I'm guessing I don't need anything besides my receiver with the Annies.


 
  Thanks for the link to the Audio mixer vid. I was looking for some more info on it. However I also found the Nox Audio Negotiator
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Negotiator-Gaming-Adaptor-Pc/dp/B003XG6I0O/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1364792728&sr=1-1&keywords=Nox+Audio+Negotiator
   
  These are the only 2 items I've seen that have chat and game sound mixing for a low budget.  Are there any other options out there that are good for stereo gaming? I don't really want to spend the money for a surround sound decoder (like the Mixamp or Recond3D).  I found the Xbox version of the audio mixer for $7.  Would it be worth it to get the Nox Audio Negotiator over the Steelseries for digital stereo over the Steelseries analog stereo?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





tmaxx123 said:


> anyone have any input on which usb soundcard might be best to hook up a laptop to a astro mixamp?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Creative-Labs-Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-Surround-5-1-Pro-24-bit-USB-External-Sound-/160727974036?pt=US_Sound_Cards_Internal_&hash=item256c224094
> 
> ...


 
   
  First off, the Mixamp is a *console gaming* device. PCs have alternatives at lower cost.
   
  For a laptop, you're limited to USB devices, but that still leaves the Xonar U3 and the devices you linked, among others, which will provide surround processing like the Mixamp by themselves.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I had the Recon3D USB, it's the better gaming option and does everything the X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro does for movies and music. You wouldn't connect the Recon3D USB to the Mixamp because it's essentially the same type of device (DAC and surround processor with volume controls) and the Recon3D USB only has a headphone jack for output with the virtual surround already baked in, same as the Mixamp. Both could benefit from a nice headphone amp when using nicer headphones.
> The Surround 5.1 Pro apparently has an optical-out (SPDIF/TOSLINK), but it also wouldn't need to connect to a Mixamp for virtual surround to a headphone. I don't know if the Surround 5.1 Pro could output Dolby Digital Live through it's optical-out anyway, which the Mixamp needs for it's surround processing.
> 
> Thing is... The Recon3D USB is a compromise that does an admirable job providing surround + chat for a laptop, desktop PC, or gaming console. IMO, the X-Fi Go Pro is the best portable option with a laptop, a flagship soundcard provides the best sound quality for a desktop, and a HT receiver with virtual surround (as an option when you can't use speakers) is the most convenient option for a game console. If your budget or living space prevents you from having all three options, the Recon3D USB covers all that for you. In your case, if you just have a laptop & already have a Mixamp, I'd say just get the X-Fi Go Pro.


 
   
  I've heard some...rather unpleasant opinions about the X-Fi Go! Pro, to say the least. It's the older X-Fi Go! revision that seems to be favored.
   
  For that matter, any of the newer "Pro" X-Fi USB devices with the THX TruStudio suite tend to have my skepticism just for not having CMSS-3D Headphone.
   
  Quote: 





don tonberry said:


> Thanks for the link to the Audio mixer vid. I was looking for some more info on it. However I also found the Nox Audio Negotiator
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Negotiator-Gaming-Adaptor-Pc/dp/B003XG6I0O/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1364792728&sr=1-1&keywords=Nox+Audio+Negotiator
> 
> These are the only 2 items I've seen that have chat and game sound mixing for a low budget.  Are there any other options out there that are good for stereo gaming? I don't really want to spend the money for a surround sound decoder (like the Mixamp or Recond3D).  I found the Xbox version of the audio mixer for $7.  Would it be worth it to get the Nox Audio Negotiator over the Steelseries for digital stereo over the Steelseries analog stereo?


 
   
  Seems like the chat mixer doesn't support virtual surround AND has the DAC integrated into it. I really would suggest just saving up for a week or two and opting for something with virtual surround, if at all possible, just for the positional audio advantage.
   
  As for comparing those two stereo DAC/mixer devices, most of us aren't in the position to judge that when we generally go straight for Recon3D or Mixamp-tier devices anyway.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Seems like the chat mixer doesn't support virtual surround AND has the DAC integrated into it. I really would suggest just saving up for a week or two and opting for something with virtual surround, if at all possible, just for the positional audio advantage.
> 
> As for comparing those two stereo DAC/mixer devices, most of us aren't in the position to judge that when we generally go straight for Recon3D or Mixamp-tier devices anyway.


 
  What if I were to get a used Earforce DSS and use the Steelseries mixer for the microphone capabilities?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





don tonberry said:


> Thanks for the link to the Audio mixer vid. I was looking for some more info on it. However I also found the Nox Audio Negotiator
> 
> *My pleasure!  I read somewhere that the thing was crap, but maybe I'm mistaken.*
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> For a laptop, you're limited to USB devices, but that still leaves the Xonar U3 and the devices you linked, among others, which will provide surround processing like the Mixamp by themselves.
> 
> I've heard some...rather unpleasant opinions about the X-Fi Go! Pro, to say the least. It's the older X-Fi Go! revision that seems to be favored.
> 
> For that matter, any of the newer "Pro" X-Fi USB devices with the THX TruStudio suite tend to have my skepticism just for not having CMSS-3D Headphone.



Sorry, I didn't realize they changed them. Creative really seems to be trying to move on from CMSS-3D for some reason.


----------



## Ljanmi

Bioshock Infinite on PC with DH has great positional cues, I'm playing it right now on Asus Xonar DX + MMX 300


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> Bioshock Infinite on PC with DH has great positional cues, I'm playing it right now on Asus Xonar DX + MMX 300


 
   
  Same with the xbox 360 version.


----------



## Ljanmi

Bioshock Infinite  single player - I forgot to mention


----------



## jorgevelez666

Ok thx *Impulse* and *Mad Lust Envy*, i'm gonna get the soundcard first, but since this is my first soundcard ever i don't know which one should i get. Of course the most expensive one is usually the best, but i'm only gonna use it to play battlefield so i'm not sure if i ever gonna use all the features from the DSX, these are my options:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-XONAR-Headphone-Audio-Card/dp/B0045JHJSS/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Xonar-DGX-PCI-E-GX2-5-Engine/dp/B007TMZ1BK/ref=pd_sim_e_3
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Xonar-DSX-Engine-Playback-Support/dp/B007TMZ1MY/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1364819447&sr=1-4&keywords=xonar+dgx
   
  PD: Yes, the reason why i'm doing this upgrade is positional audio and hopefully get rid of the knifing bastards


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote: 





jorgevelez666 said:


> Ok thx *Impulse* and *Mad Lust Envy*, i'm gonna get the soundcard first, but since this is my first soundcard ever i don't know which one should i get. Of course the most expensive one is usually the best, but i'm only gonna use it to play battlefield so i'm not sure if i ever gonna use all the features from the DSX, these are my options:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-XONAR-Headphone-Audio-Card/dp/B0045JHJSS/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
> 
> ...


 
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/09/asus_dgx_dsx_xonar_rog_phoebus_sound_cards/8#.UVmpgBxTCQo  Xonar DS doesn't have DH, Asus DGX or DX should be just fine for DH, but Xonar DS/DSX is also very good as they say with its NEO PC 5.1 or something like that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd like to know which soundcard does DH through it's line out (RCA out)?


----------



## jorgevelez666

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/09/asus_dgx_dsx_xonar_rog_phoebus_sound_cards/8#.UVmpgBxTCQo  Xonar DS doesn't have DH, Asus DGX or DX should be just fine for DH, but Xonar DS/DSX is also very good as they say with its NEO PC 5.1 or something like that.


 
  mmmm ok then DGX it's, thx a lot *Ljanmi*, *Impulse* and *Mad Lust Envy*. As for the headset, well i'll get those later ;D


----------



## kellte2

Upon RazorDog Audio restocking the K702 Anniversaries, I finally bit the bullet.  $399 new was a great price and while my DT990s are fine with gaming, the treble peaks have become bothersome during music sessions.  I have never owned any quality audio gear that didn't have a v-curve, so I'm not sure what to expect!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Much better mids, and non-fatiguing treble.  Not DT990 bass, but accurate and rich when called for.

I'm having seller's remorse.

I'm here with my LCD2, loving it's sound signature...NOT loving the leather pads and heft... :rolleyes:

Might have to do something sooner or later. I kinda wanna wait for the X1, but the Annie may find itself back at home in the future.

BTW, got my M17x R4, my 8gb 1600mhz memory sticks, and my SSD! Now I need a damn mini screwdriver to pop out the bay to install all this before actually turning the laptop on. :rolleyes:


----------



## zx6guy

[size=medium]In case anyone is interested another option for a 2.5mm/2.5mm puck besides the turtle beach unit(s)[/size]
   
[size=medium]http://www.ebay.com/itm/221208793209?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D221208793209%26_rdc%3D1#ht_280wt_1123[/size]
   
  [size=medium]The only problem I see is the cable sticks straight up, which for me is the opposite direction I need it to go as my mixamp usually sits on the floor.  If I get one I'll let you guys know my thoughts. [/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, so don't even bother with MW2 on the PS3. Every single ****ing lobby I join is full of cheaters and hackers. This is ridiculous. Auto radar, auto aim, or just lobbys with moon jump, speed run, etc. I can't get into one damn room where people are actually playing the damn game.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, so don't even bother with MW2 on the PS3. Every single ****ing lobby I join is full of cheaters and hackers. This is ridiculous. Auto radar, auto aim, or just lobbys with moon jump, speed run, etc. I can't get into one damn room where people are actually playing the damn game.



That, plus the killstreaks, is why my interest in buying the game died after about a month or two. It's just about always been an exploited game. There was about 4-5 months where CoD4 was almost as bad leading up to the release of MW3, but it's simmered down and most of the lobby hackers don't get host, and the aimbot kids usually are unskilled enough that a concentrating player can outmaneuver them (and satisfyingly cause rage-quitting). When the hacking got really bad, guess what I did?
Played Halo 
But yeah, if there was an isolated mode included in a CoD game where interested players could *ick around with bullet damage, movement speed, reload-free, gravity, etc, I think there would be less hacking in the regular game modes I like. Of course there will always be people who try to cheat and get a competitive advantage in ranked play, but... Yeah.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Right now CoD4 is mostly hack free. Almost no game with cheaters.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> The Resident Evil 6 demo was pretty cool. Both of the Batman: Arkham games are good, I liked Elder Scrolls: Oblivion (I own Skyrim, in my backlog), CoD4 MW is great, Halo Reach in SWAT is great, Halo 4 is about as good but the warthogs are unusually loud and both halo games oddly lack volume control (which will be no problem balancing with chat since you have a Mixamp anyway), I haven't tried Hitman or Splinter Cell games yet but I expect them to be awesome, the first two Dead Space games I've played were pretty awesome and scarier, Assassin's Creed is alright (playing the 1st one now, the second game was awesome, played it before I had surround tho), surround made the trapped souls in DMC blatantly clear where to find them (tho no height cues), aaaaaand... I dunno, that's a pretty fair list. OOH! And also Bioshock, go back and play the first one, ah-MAZING! Can't wait to try Infinity
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sweet. I'll go through my all my PS3 games to demo out the mixamp when I get more time.
   
  I love the multiple inputs the mixamp has. I could now watch cable TV and listen in DH through the mixamp via RCA. I love wathcing sports so this is a HUGE plus for me! 
   
  Unfortunately, I had to return the Recon to Amazon for a partial refund... so I will not be able to compare. After purchasing the mixamp, I just could not find a reason for keeping both... plus I really needed the funds. I was refunded approximately the same amount I purchased the mixamp amp for... so even trade in my eyes... as I mentioned in a prior post. The recon was $100 at the time I purchased it.
   
  Many thanks


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> [size=medium]In case anyone is interested another option for a 2.5mm/2.5mm puck besides the turtle beach unit(s)[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]http://www.ebay.com/itm/221208793209?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D221208793209%26_rdc%3D1#ht_280wt_1123[/size]
> 
> [size=medium]The only problem I see is the cable sticks straight up, which for me is the opposite direction I need it to go as my mixamp usually sits on the floor.  If I get one I'll let you guys know my thoughts. [/size]


 
   
  Wow, that is heavy duty.  Perhaps TOO heavy duty...that stiff cable looks like it could get annoying...
   
  The turtle beach ones have worked OK for me:
  http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/xtc-talkback-cable/87
  http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/xbox-live-puck/105


----------



## SoAmusing777

AVR 254 - 60mW per channel left and right under 32ohm load
   
  Source impedance - 110ohms 
   
  +/- 15 volt rails

 Just spoke with a super tech over at H/K. He mentioned the amp was chip based Op Amp? I have no clue what any of this means. 

 K702 Annies - Rated Impedance - 62ohms
  Max Input power - 200mW
  Sensitivity 105dB/V
   
  Anyone able to dummify this for me, and tell me if I'm getting the full potential of this awesome headphone? The volume is perfect.


----------



## Evshrug

soamusing777 said:


> AVR 254 - 60mW per channel left and right under 32ohm load
> 
> Source impedance - 110ohms
> 
> ...



You say the volume is perfect? If you like it, don't worry about it, buy a new game and some music 
Source impedance may be input or output impedance... Though input impedance would probably be something like 110 kOhms. If you were using headphones besides the Annies, you might hear some distortion from an 110 Ohm output impedance.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Wow, that is heavy duty.  Perhaps TOO heavy duty...that stiff cable looks like it could get annoying...
> 
> The turtle beach ones have worked OK for me:
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/xtc-talkback-cable/87
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/xbox-live-puck/105


How do you use those adapters to mix chat into the game audio?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> How do you use those adapters to mix chat into the game audio?


 
   
  They're not really designed for mixing chat into game audio.
   
  They have dials for turning chat volume up and down, and mute switches for muting your mic.
   
   
  I think they're a more convenient option than the standard 2.5mm cable that the mixamp comes with, since you can mute your mic (my modmic doesn't have a mute switch) or turn down the chat easily without messing with the mixamps mix dial.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> They're not really designed for mixing chat into game audio.
> 
> They have dials for turning chat volume up and down, and mute switches for muting your mic.
> 
> ...



Well... I usually just want my mic to be louder, lol. But basically these are glorified mic adapters, neh?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well... I usually just want my mic to be louder, lol. But basically these are glorified mic adapters, neh?


 
   
  What do you mean by "mic adapter?"   O_0
   
  They're glorified *2.5mm male-to-male *cables (+ a mic mute switch + chat volume dial). 
   
  Since they are male-to-male, you need a mixamp or something inbetween the cables and the mic.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You say the volume is perfect? If you like it, don't worry about it, buy a new game and some music
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, it is. I was just wondering if I was missing out on some of the headphones qualities is all. I wanna make them sing. I don't know anything about that, but okay, lol. Distortion because why?


----------



## Evshrug

Um, I'm not the best to ask, but there's a thing about output impedance causing bass distortion if it's not 1/8th the impedance Ohms of the headphone, although high impedance headphones seem less affected, and I've read in a few places that the Annies/flagship AKGs behave like high-impedance headphones in regards to dampening and distortion. IIRC, the distortion caused by higher output impedance takes the form of bigger but bloated bass... Not sure about that though. Take all that with a grain of salt, if you're interested do some more research, but as I said it's academic because you have the Annies.


----------



## Evshrug

BORED! Mad, come play CoD4 on Xbox with me


----------



## Impulse

Not all high impedance headphones are unaffected by a high output impedance, even some 300-600 ohm impedance headphones will still have significant swing in their impedance curve (as you play different frequencies over it) and a 100 ohm output impedance is high enough that it would very much have an impact (if that's in fact what you're looking at)...

The issue is that headphones doesn't always present an identical load to the amp, so when the load varies it'll interact differently with the amp if it approaches the point where damping factor is sacrificed or altered... Basically the manufacturer provided impedance measurement is an average, not an absolute constant figure. So essentially, you might be at the 1/8 ratio from 300Hz thru 10KHz but then at a different frequency you might be well below 1/8. Doesn't always have to be reflected in the bass.

The least affected headphones are planar magnetics since they have a completely flat impedance curve, so it's never gonna react differently to the amp depending on output impedance regardless of the frequency played (tho I'm unsure if electrical damping is still a factor overall, with planars specifically). AKG's Q/K 70x line has a _relatively_ flat impedance curve, which is why I think it's often mentioned in the same context (plus it's high amping requirements).

It's not totally flat tho and still shifts by about 10-20 ohm at 10KHz, at least according to the InnerFidelity chart I'm reading... I guess that's still a relatively small shift tho, compared to headphones whose impedance jumps by 50-200 ohm depending on frequency (and that includes a lot of headphones from the lowly PortaPro to the HD650).

A chip/op amp is just exactly that, the way it's built/designed, the E09 and others are like that... Tho the E09k puts out far more than 60mW. Most AVR usually just put a series of resistors to step down the speaker voltage for headphone output, thus using the same amp for both. HK used a completely separate amp there, I think Marantz also does this, not sure... Which is the better approach is completely down to actual implementation tho, only measurements and/or your ears can determine that.

SoAmusing, the S&V article I PM'd you a while ago is probably the clearest explanation I've seen of why output impedance matters (less technical, good analogies).


----------



## pervysage

Anyone try the HD800's for gaming purposes? lol.


----------



## Impulse

Heh, anyone see Schiit's April Fool's joke? The Glo portable amplifier:

_Atomic Battery with Unsurpassed Lifespan Yes, you read that right. 1.5 x 10E6 year battery half-life. That’s 15 million years. Compare to just a few hours in competitive devices. You’ll never have to charge the GLO. Ever. It will last longer than you do (especially with heavy use.)_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Any idea how to fix this stupidity. I bought the laptop for the hdmi input, but everything I connect to it, looks like that...


----------



## Evshrug

Um... April fools?
Worst part is that curved white object in the middle.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Anyone try the HD800's for gaming purposes? lol.


 
   
  King of Kings.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a reflection or my light. Everything elsewhere else is the screen including the horrible white strip and the black bar on the right.


----------



## ztreb185

I have a PS3 and want to connect it with my HD 598s and Gr07 mk2.  I don't care about or need chat functions, but want the best possible audio quality.  Of the dss2, mixamp, e17, or anything else, which would provide the best audio?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp Pro 2011 or earlier. Or a receiver with DH.

BTW, got my foam headband for my LCD2... comfort just went from a 6.5 to an 7.5. JUST what I needed.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp Pro 2011 or earlier. Or a receiver with DH.
> 
> BTW, got my foam headband for my LCD2... comfort just went from a 6.5 to an 7.5. JUST what I needed.


 
  Lookin good!  Did you get it directly from Audeze?


----------



## Evshrug

If you want surround, you can cross the E17 off your list. The newer Mixamps have slightly more hiss than older ones, those from 2011 are the best performers. Since you don't need chat mixing, you have more options that are cheaper. I don't know how DSS and Mixamp compare for background hiss, but they both use Dolby Headphone, and the original DSS is selling on eBay for about $30 with cables. The DSS2 has some other kind of surround processing than DH (instead something by Cirrus Logic), but users have generally been pleased with it, and head-fi user I95North said it was basically noise-free. I think the DSS2 costs more than the DSS. I've been using the Recon3D for almost a year, just sold it as part of a gaming kit to another lucky head-Fi'er. My review on that is in my signature, TL;DR I liked it a lot and it causes less distortion to achieve surround, I liked the surround effect best of what I've heard (at my settings), but Mad & NamelessPFG shared a unit and thought rear cues sounded distinct from front, but they didn't sound like they extended behind the head. That wasn't a problem for me, but I had an amp, different headphones, and above all different ears, and the Recon3D is my personal top pick. Above that, you probably ought to just get an AVR for the convenience and versatility.

There's been lots of discussion of this, even over the past 2-3 pages.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Any idea how to fix this stupidity. I bought the laptop for the hdmi input, but everything I connect to it, looks like that...


 
   
  If I had to guess I'd say your PS3 is outputting a resolution that doesn't match your laptops native res, and the laptop is choosing not to scale the image.  Or maybe the laptop is purposefully underscanning the image for some reason. 
   
  Does the laptops screen have hardware buttons to control how it displays incoming signals and how it scales them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ps3 and my desktop are both outputting 1080p, same as the laptop screen. I can assure you, the settings are correct.

Problem is, the hdmi input has absolutely no seetings. All you get is FN+F8 which switches from HDMi in to Windows and back. I've seen this before when hooking up my desktop to my TV. I believe its an HDMI handshake issue, but there's no way to adjust for it here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

modulor said:


> Lookin good!  Did you get it directly from Audeze?




The headband? Got it from someone here on the forums for a good price.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The ps3 and my desktop are both outputting 1080p, same as the laptop screen. I can assure you, the settings are correct.
> 
> Problem is, the hdmi input has absolutely no seetings. All you get is FN+F8 which switches from HDMi in to Windows and back. I've seen this before when hooking up my desktop to my TV. I believe its an HDMI handshake issue, but there's no way to adjust for it here.


 
  There should be some adjustment settings in Catalyst Control Center.  HDMI is very picky at times, mainly with scaling from my experience.


----------



## Fa11ou7

I second Modular, check Catalyst Control Center and fiddle around with the settings. I've never used a video input on a laptop so I don't have any direct knowledge for you. Look for scaling options thats probably the best way to fix the black bar around the image. Also, look for a tab called my LCD/ My digital Panel somethingorother and that might give you the options you need.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not that. There are no options for the HDMI input, as it's separated from the computer/windows. Basically, it's it's own thing, with no options for it, whatsoever.

Anyways, I reformatted, wiped clean, and the HDMI STILL has that problem. So it's definitely the HDMI input/video board, etc.


----------



## Fa11ou7

Sounds like a call to customer support is in order, you may have gotten a lemon. It certainly doesn't seem like its functioning as intended. Have you tried different resolutions on you PS3? I know its supposed to support 1080p but if a different resolution is working properly that would  be another indication that something is wrong with you laptop.
   
  edit: redundancy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got the RMA so off it goes. I love the laptop, so hopefully the next one will work properly.

Played the Mass Effect 2 demo on max and was...wow. DEM GRAPHIX at over 60fps.


----------



## pervysage

Welp, up and sent the Annies back for a refund. Rattling just kept on coming back and I'd had enough of it lol.
   
  Now that I have some more money saved up and the good ole' tax refund coming in, I was thinking of waiting a bit and getting a flagship instead of another pair of Annies...
   
  HD800's are looking real good right now, heh... that's why I was asking how they were for gaming.
   
  The supposedly "huge" soundstage on them would be pretty good for that purpose, no?
   
  Are they good "all arounders" for music, movies, games, etc?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I got the RMA so off it goes. I love the laptop, so *hopefully the next one will work properly.*


 
   
  How is it _supposed _to work?
  Are you supposed to have control over how it scales the image?  I thought that was the whole point of having a laptop with a video input - otherwise you just plug in a source and hope it looks correct.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, assuming what you're using isn't utter garbage, all things should be scaled properly, like any TV that scales everythiing to 1920x1080. Pretty barebones, but HDMI sources would all be specific resolutions anyways, and all are probably already set to scale to the monitor's entire length. I'll test it out once I get my hopefully working pair. Underscan and overscan is usually for analog signals like composite/component, IIRC.

Irony here is that the HDMI OUT is underscanned by default, so I had to go to the options and set it to 0% to match the width/height of my TV. Also, by default, the HDMi input has no audio. You have to manually set the audio drivers to 'listen to' the HDMI. :rolleyes:

It's all backwards. ..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, assuming what you're using isn't utter garbage, all things should be scaled properly, like any TV that scales everythiing to 1920x1080. Pretty barebones, but HDMI sources would all be specific resolutions anyways, and all are probably already set to scale to the monitor's entire length. I'll test it out once I get my hopefully working pair.


 
   
  Have other people got the PS3 working at 1080p filling the entire screen with the same laptop?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've seen youtube vids with the screen working properly. Remember, its not just the ps3 I tested. Tested my desktop as well as my friend's macbook. They all have that screen defect.

Doesn't matter now. It's being sent back.


----------



## namloc

I'm in the process of returning my Q701s to amazon. My 1st and 2nd pair had a annoying bass rattle so i'm ditching them all together and getting something else.
   
  I'd want my headphones to have... 
   
  Detachable Cable
  Comfy to wear all day
  Decent bass
  Good audio positioning for fps games...
   
  What should i be looking at for say $400 USD or less


----------



## pietcux

You might want to check on the Philips Fidelio X1. There is a review on Inner Fidelity that points out the comfort and their basshead qualities. Had them on my head in a big store, very nice and comfy. You could also check the Beyerdynamic Custome One.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





namloc said:


> I'm in the process of returning my Q701s to amazon. My 1st and 2nd pair had a annoying bass rattle so i'm ditching them all together and getting something else.
> 
> I'd want my headphones to have...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Really seems to be a prevalent problem with all the AKG's. Returned my Annies to Amazon for the same reason. Was it in just one of the earcups?


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Really seems to be a prevalent problem with all the AKG's. Returned my Annies to Amazon for the same reason. Was it in just one of the earcups?


 
   
   
  I've seen this complaint surface more and more (on this thread and in the Anniversary OT).  Kind of worried now that I find out about this problem two days AFTER ordering the Annies...


----------



## pietcux

This could also be a forwarding or packaging issue.


----------



## Impulse

pietcux said:


> You might want to check on the Philips Fidelio X1. There is a review on Inner Fidelity that points out the comfort and their basshead qualities. Had them on my head in a big store, very nice and comfy. You could also check the Beyerdynamic Custome One.




Just not if you're in the US since the Amazon listing still has them as shipping in 1 to 2 *months*, grrr... I really wanna check them out myself but it's taking ridiculously long for them to arrive stateside.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I posted some gaming impressions a few momths ago. I think they are good headphones for gaming, especially singleplayer. 
   
  What about X1 gifts from Europe?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is probably going to cause an uproar, but it is MY opinion:



> *MrSpeakers Mad Dog*
> *A huge thanks to MattTCG for loaning these to me!*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## imagine123

Hi, im looking into buying some headphones for gaming. 
  Been reading your whole guide but I can't decide yet.
   
  I've been looking at the AKG K701/Q701, falling more onto the Q701. Though as stated a few post over me, they have a problem with bass rattle. Which made me even more unsure.
   
  I am looking for a allround headset, but most focus on positioning. Using it mainly for gaming, but also for music and video.
  As I am a teamplayer I would prefer a built in mic(less fuzz)but without is also okay. Im running on a budget around 350-400$
  Of course they will be worn for extended periods, so comfort is a must!
   
  I am really new to this, but I have heard the words DAC and amplifier, I know what an amp is but do i need both? Would I better of buying a portable amp then a Asus Xonar essence STX e.g.?
   
  I hope someone can recommend me something and maybe teach me a thing or two on the way, I can tell that there is a lot of people with loads of knowledge here. Hope you guys want to share some with me.


----------



## Change is Good

I am so tempted to switch out the headband on my Q701s. Looking at the mod guide, however, I'm afraid I might break something.


----------



## unclerico

~Sizing Recommendations~ for a large melon
   
  Short and sweet, I have a big head(7 5/8) and want a good quality, very *COMFORTABLE* headset/headphones (75% gaming/25% music). I will be gaming on Xbox360, and playing mainly fps shooters, so I've basically narrowed it down to these:
   
  Sennheiser pc360
  Sennheiser hd598
  Astro A40
  Akg q701
   
  fyi, I've tested these ...
   
  AD700--hated the gigantic fit, even for my big arse melon
  BD dt990 pro-- too tight, way to much clamp, but loved the sound. Not sure if the premiums fit loser?
  2013 Astro A40--very comfy, but had to extend them to the max, which wasn't an issue, just an observation. I'm just worried about the horror stories of read about the 2013's
   
  If anyone has any personal experience with any of the headphones mentioned above, please let me know what you thought of the fit. Please feel free to mention any other headphones that I might have missed, if you think they'd be good for my needs.
   
  thanks very much in advance


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





unclerico said:


> ~Sizing Recommendations~ for a large melon
> 
> Short and sweet, I have a big head(7 5/8) and want a good quality, very *COMFORTABLE* headset/headphones (75% gaming/25% music). I will be gaming on Xbox360, and playing mainly fps shooters, so I've basically narrowed it down to these:
> 
> ...


 
   
  The Sennheisers are comfy, but do have firm clamp which you can loosen up over time.  I think the Q701 ultimately has less clamp though and definitely has roomier cups.  Not sure which has more headband extension.   If you go Q701 I recommend padding up top.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Really seems to be a prevalent problem with all the AKG's. Returned my Annies to Amazon for the same reason. Was it in just one of the earcups?


 
  Two people is prevalent? Ok, maybe you dig in the appreciation thread or google for it, but how many people have problems? Prevalent in my mind is like the 1:3 RRoD issue with launch model Xbox 360's. Most people I've read about owning these AKG flagships love them, or think they prefer a different sound signature, but rattle is new to me.


----------



## Impulse

MLE, the Mad Dogs come w/two cables btw, the V-moda one (6'-ish, 3.5mm) and the stock Fostex one which is longer and locks into place (it's like 9-10", and terminated at 1/4" IIRC), they also come w/a carrying pouch (recent addition); just figured I'd mentioned it since you wondered about it in the review. I think Dan's been offering the option of blacked out stickers too, if you want that stealth look, tho he switched to stickers w/a simple raised white font and no logo for the stock one.
   
  Nice review btw, I'm looking forward to trying 'em out myself; were you able to address the issues you had w/getting a proper seal? I really do need a pair of decently isolating headphones for the living room, my RX700 have served me well for watching TV but it's time for an upgrade.


----------



## kellte2

unclerico said:


> ~Sizing Recommendations~ for a large melon
> 
> Short and sweet, I have a big head(7 5/8) and want a good quality, very *COMFORTABLE* headset/headphones (75% gaming/25% music). I will be gaming on Xbox360, and playing mainly fps shooters, so I've basically narrowed it down to these:
> 
> ...


 
   
  Full disclosure: I have a big head, too ( 7 5/8).  I currently own a set of DT 990 Premium cans and the clamp is just strong enough to keep them in place.  I don't even need to have the arms extended all way to get a comfortable fit and that makes me happy.  The consensus is that the Pro variant from the Beyer line has a decidedly tighter clamp - and this lends itself to the perception of a better low-end response.  The Premium 990s are incredibly comfortable and I would definitely recommend them to anyone that appreciates the high and low end, as well as a fantastic soundstage - they're just great gaming cans.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Two people is prevalent? Ok, maybe you dig in the appreciation thread or google for it, but how many people have problems? Prevalent in my mind is like the 1:3 RRoD issue with launch model Xbox 360's. Most people I've read about owning these AKG flagships love them, or think they prefer a different sound signature, but rattle is new to me.


 
   
  Several people are reporting the problem, including chicolom, over on the AKG Annie Official Topic in the Headphone Forum.  (For a brief example, see: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/2160#post_9326085)  I don't think the rattling manifests itself on every track.  Theoretically, many users could "have" the problem, but have not yet encountered the rattling.  I will definitely put my incoming pair through the paces as soon as they get in.


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





imagine123 said:


> Hi, im looking into buying some headphones for gaming. Been reading your whole guide but I can't decide yet.
> 
> ...
> 
> I am really new to this, but I have heard the words DAC and amplifier, I know what an amp is but do i need both? Would I better of buying a portable amp then a Asus Xonar essence STX e.g.?


 
   
  If you're gonna be gaming on your PC you should read Nameless' PC gaming thread (and/or Evshrug's guide linked in his sig) and/or decide whether you want a sound card for surround processing/virtualization, e.g. CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone... Either scheme will basically take a game's 5.1 signal and mold it in a way that sounds natural and enveloping for a headphone. Most external USB DAC can't do this at all, sound cards are just internal DAC, some have discrete amps and some don't.
   
  The STX has a very decent amp already so it's a pretty solid value for an all-in solution (specially if you find it for closer to $150 than $200), though it generally plays better w/higher impedance headphones due to it's 10 ohm output impedance. Something like a Titanium HD or Xonar DGX + a Fiio E09K or Schiit Magni would be the alternative, ends up costing about the same either way. For most of the headphones in the price range you're looking at you'll surely want a decent amp to get the best out of them.
   
  You can look thru the last few dozen pages of the thread if ya want as those very options were recently discussed, tho this thread is aimed more at console gamers... If you don't care for surround processing then you can pick any USB DAC/amp combo out there, I'd still get _something_ better for a source than on-board mobo audio either way. Is your total budget for headphones + source/amp or what?
   
   
  Quote: 





unclerico said:


> ~Sizing Recommendations~ for a large melon
> 
> Short and sweet, I have a big head(7 5/8) and want a good quality, very *COMFORTABLE* headset/headphones (75% gaming/25% music). I will be gaming on Xbox360, and playing mainly fps shooters, so I've basically narrowed it down to these:
> 
> BD dt990 pro-- too tight, way to much clamp, but loved the sound. Not sure if the premiums fit loser?


 
   
  The Premiums fit looser out of the box but the Pros can be adjusted for the same fit (and vice versa), the headband is pretty darn tough. Personally I find 'em to be some of the most comfortable _and _best built headphones out there, even tho I'm generally not too picky comfort-wise.
   
  Pads are smaller than the Q701's but still large enough, and the headband is much comfier (although the Q707's isn't hard to fix w/some extra padding). Those Sennheisers clamp a lil harder and there's not as much adjustment range in that regard (there's only so much you can bend out hard plastic) but they're still pretty comfortable and the oval pads have their advantages.


----------



## tcgc

Hey guys, I've read numerous threads and posts and came to this:
   
  I need closed type headphones to listen mostly at night when my wife sleeps, since we have TV in the same room, I can't go with open-type headphones and I need least leaky ones.
  I like gaming on my xbox360, don't care about voice-chatting, music - mostly electronic, sometimes bassy rap, I'm not really in to classic music these days.
   
  So, so far DT-770 80 Ohm are the best option I should be going with but there is local market problem and everyone has left with 250 Ohm version which I don't want to mess my fun.
  Even thou I want to buy a portable amp like FiiO E11 or even E12, just for gaming and music needs. But AFAIK 250 Ohm version is amp hungry, needs adjustments etc. - I don't need that.
   
  Btw, how about 32 Ohm LE? Still not available but I'm thinking of ordering either 80 Ohm or 32 Ohm version.
   
  I would be glad if someone will recommend me any decent closed-back's which go on par with DT-770's. Thanks!


----------



## Fegefeuer

32 Ohm LE is the best DT770 to me. Best highs and mids. The former especially due to less sibilance than most Beyers actually. 
   
  Read up the Headfonia review. Though I don't agree with some of their reviews (I believe they stopped praising certain headphones up and down) they did well in this one.


----------



## imagine123

Wow, thanks for an awesome reply there. Learned abit. 

I was thinking about 200-300$ on amp and the other budget for only the headphones. 

I will look into thoose threads when i get home from work.

Edit: if i buy gjerne titanium HD, then i need a amp too?


----------



## tcgc

Thanks man, now I was thinking how DT-770 compares to Yamaha PRO 500, looks like there not that popular up here.


----------



## namloc

yeah on my first pair it was the right cup and on the replacement pair it was on the left, annoying because it seems like if they didnt rattle they'd be amazing


----------



## namloc

seems like the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 are really popular, how are they for gaming? so far its either the Philips l1 or v-moda m-100


----------



## imagine123

Think i'll stick with the essence STX, any recommendations to combine with that? Didn't get that much out of what you told me to look at...


----------



## Sleinzel

Quote: 





imagine123 said:


> Think i'll stick with the essence STX, any recommendations to combine with that? Didn't get that much out of what you told me to look at...


 
   
  I have the Essence ST and Q701... Pretty good setup in my opinion.


----------



## Nurse13

sleinzel said:


> I have the Essence ST and Q701... Pretty good setup in my opinion.




I have the Essence STX and recently acquired Q701. I would consider myself an average user, but by no means does that mean i dont care about sound quality and optimal settings to utilize full potential of my hardware. Because of this i have been struggling the xonar software audio settings. I am using the C-media panel from brainbit as it drastically reduces DPC latency for me. Any hows im wondering how other STX/ST owners are using for audio settings with their Q701's. I mean are you using gain settings? And how much? What about audio mixer? The C-media panel has a max of +12db gain and just 1 mixer setting (no SVN) that acts as the main volume knob. 
The reason I use the c-media panel instead of xonar audio center is because of the overwhelming amount of options lol  
I mean do you use high gain (because Q701 have like what 60 ohms impedance? i dont remember) then lower mixer settings and then what of the volume knob? Confusing. I just want to plug it in, and it work great!


----------



## pietcux

imagine123 said:


> Think i'll stick with the essence STX, any recommendations to combine with that? Didn't get that much out of what you told me to look at...


 I had the STX in my gaming rig. Ran it most of the time with the AKG K 401 that I stupidly sold last year, only to purchase the AKG K 702 today. These AKG cans have the best enemy location in games I came across. Right now I run the sound through a XONAR USB, but I will repurchase the STX for sure next month. And btw the AKGs are extremly comfy fot hours of gaming.....


----------



## pietcux

nurse13 said:


> I have the Essence STX and recently acquired Q701. I would consider myself an average user, but by no means does that mean i dont care about sound quality and optimal settings to utilize full potential of my hardware. Because of this i have been struggling the xonar software audio settings. I am using the C-media panel from brainbit as it drastically reduces DPC latency for me. Any hows im wondering how other STX/ST owners are using for audio settings with their Q701's. I mean are you using gain settings? And how much? What about audio mixer? The C-media panel has a max of +12db gain and just 1 mixer setting (no SVN) that acts as the main volume knob.
> The reason I use the c-media panel instead of xonar audio center is because of the overwhelming amount of options lol
> I mean do you use high gain (because Q701 have like what 60 ohms impedance? i dont remember) then lower mixer settings and then what of the volume knob? Confusing. I just want to plug it in, and it work great!



So you use the C Media panel and not the STX panel...? Does that mean, that you do not use any Dolby Headphone capabilities that the STX brings you?


----------



## Nurse13

Uhm ya... is that a bad thing?

I thought your not supposed to for best sound quality and use of your headphones. I'm going back to it though i guess..

still looking for optimal sound and gain settings.


----------



## pietcux

The Xonar STX is not complete if you see it as a hardware only solution. The STX driver software is half of the quality. You might want to select the middle gain setting for the K701 as it is not overly power efficient. Then select headphone on analog out and 8 channels. DSP mode *Gaming* plus GX is very good IMHO, use it always. Switch to HF for music though, as the DH simulation for music is a bit too artificial for me.  And you better use the card's headphone out. If you use the front out connection, you can have the computer hardware influence the sound. Most front out connector cables are not properly shielded and inside a computer case is a lot of HF terror going on.


----------



## Nurse13

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> The Xonar STX is not complete if you see it as a hardware only solution. The STX driver software is half of the quality. You might want to select the middle gain setting for the K701 as it is not overly power efficient. Then select headphone on analog out and 8 channels. DSP mode *Gaming* plus GX is very good IMHO, use it always. Switch to HF for music though, as the DH simulation for music is a bit too artificial for me.  And you better use the card's headphone out. If you use the front out connection, you can have the computer hardware influence the sound. Most front out connector cables are not properly shielded and inside a computer case is a lot of HF terror going on.


 
  I see... i always thought that since these are stereo headphones so why use 8 channels. I never understood what the GX does...i never used it really, i would only use a crossover frequency for my  speaker setup for movies. Bass tends to get quite loud.


----------



## Impulse

imagine123 said:


> I was thinking about 200-300$ on amp and the other budget for only the headphones.
> 
> I will look into thoose threads when i get home from work. Edit: if i buy gjerne titanium HD, then i need a amp too?




For more demanding headphones, yes. Creative claims it can handle 300 ohm headphones but it's got a pretty weak non-discrete amp, you'd want a separate one for Senn HD 600+, most Beyers/AKG, etc.




imagine123 said:


> Think i'll stick with the essence STX, any recommendations to combine with that? Didn't get that much out of what you told me to look at...




I recommended those other threads for the subject of sound cards and general PC setup topics... This thread's shock full of headphone recommendations tho, I forget what you were looking for exactly. I've been very happy with my DT 880 + STX tho, if that's worth anything. I think they're one of the better mid-range all-arounders when they drop under $250 (pretty often at Amazon, specially for the Pro version, check camelcamelcamel).




namloc said:


> seems like the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 are really popular, how are they for gaming? so far its either the Philips l1 or v-moda m-100




Closed portable headphones (M-100) are never gonna be stellar when it comes to gaming, even the majority of full size closeds will struggle in that regard... IMO you can do much better for the money if gaming's a big priority.




nurse13 said:


> Uhm ya... is that a bad thing?
> 
> I thought your not supposed to for best sound quality and use of your headphones. I'm going back to it though i guess..
> 
> still looking for optimal sound and gain settings.




You can turn off all extra processing on the ASUS drivers when you're not gaming, no reason to fear them. I'd install them and play with the settings as suggested above (tho GX emulation mode seems irrelevant these days, I'd just use Dolby Headphone for gaming).

There's also a set of unified drivers (modified by a user, google it) that might address some of your concerns with the stock drivers... Haven't tried them myself, haven't had any issues with stock.


----------



## Evshrug

Ugh. I've just been car shopping the past 3 days. Can I just say, the whole sticker price + financing thing is such a headache compared to... anything else I've researched and shopped before? Bleh. At least it has made my Q701 seem cheap, on addition to already feeling like it was a great deal 

I've got to write some things for Zigis, but eventually I want to reinvigorate my "If I Knew Then..." journal with explanations about a "whole audio system" setup and explanations about the role (and weight of importance) of a good quality amp, DAC, surround processing (if gaming or watching movies), music files, and headphones.


----------



## Bombaman

Hey i guys i wanted to ask a couple of things which really bugged me.
   
  I used to have a STX+ MMX 300
  Now i have a Dt 880 (600ohm) + E9k+E17
   
  1) If you enable DH  STX/Mixamp, i found the Soundquality to be inferior to when you listen to it without. It is like a if you are standing in a big hall, if you now what i mean.
   
  2) If we talk about gaming here are we only considering FPS? For i play mostelikely only RPGs or Sidescrollers where i want the enjoy the Soundtrack and immerse myself in the surroundings.
   
   I am going to buy a Q701 and am interested in the Soundstage of them, since the Dt 880s Sounds to me very close ( like Zombie_X described) 
  Maybe then i might try out the Dt 990 ( 600ohms) aswell.


----------



## Impulse

I think you would only wanna use DH with first/third person perspective games (shooters or otherwise), can't imagine it'd be very effective with scrollers or RTS games even if they have a 5.1 audio option... Just like it isn't generally favored for music playback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd use DH with any game that supported it, just for the added atmosphere and immersion. However, that doesn't mean you'll benefit from it. Definitely turn it off if a game doesn't support it.


----------



## Bombaman

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd use DH with any game that supported it, just for the added atmosphere and immersion. However, that doesn't mean you'll benefit from it. Definitely turn it off if a game doesn't support it.


 
  So you would use DH in music aswell?
   
  That is is the point to me. I want to enjoy those Soundtracks the game has to offer. DH just does not produce a good soundquality to me.
  Thats why i thought i might try the 1701 with the xtra Soundstage to immerse myself more without sacrificing quality.


----------



## Bombaman

Quote: 





bombaman said:


> So you would use DH in music aswell?
> 
> That is is the point to me. I want to enjoy those Soundtracks the game has to offer. DH just does not produce a good soundquality to me.
> Thats why i thought i might try the Q701 with the extra Soundstage to immerse myself more without sacrificing quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, I would only use DH with whatever accepts it. Games and movies encoded in Dolby Digital.

Music does not, so no. All you'd be doing is adding reverb and making everything sound processed. Not good.


----------



## pietcux

I use Dolby Headphone for games and movies, for music it sounds artificial most of the time so I quit ever using it.


----------



## Evshrug

A while back, I was tempted to pick up a copy of the Flaming Lips' "Yoshimi battles the pink robots" surround DVD... And I never got around to it. Lol.


----------



## Nurse13

fyi to anyone like me that reads multiple forums for settings and stuff i found part of my answer on these pages
   
http://www.head-fi.org/products/asus-xonar-essence-stx
   
   
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/3450
   
  basically i was fighting with dynamic compression with the many attempts to normalize volume for best output and stuff i really dont understand however i can say now that music sounds goot very good


----------



## imagine123

Anyone here have personal experience with Hifiman HE-400? Would like to get some advice on it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're kidding right?


----------



## imagine123

Well, I read what you wrote in you'r guide. I just feel that I can get more information out of it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case, I've updated:

Mad Dog: forgot to finish the value sub section of the review. Completed now.

HE-400: Updated, as my impressions of the mids/treble were outdated.

LCD2: Comfort section updated to add the foam headband impressions (as well as the final score change in comfort).


----------



## imagine123

Actually im sorry, way to unfocused today. Been a hard weekend, hehe.
   
  I realised you have a full and long review on the HE-400 in you'r guide and I'll go read that again. Last posts can be forgotten, or deleted.


----------



## Evshrug

imagine123 said:


> Actually im sorry, way to unfocused today. Been a hard weekend, hehe.
> 
> I realised you have a full and long review on the HE-400 in you'r guide and I'll go read that again. Last posts can be forgotten, or deleted.




You gotta click the "click here to expand full review" hyperlink, the majority of the review is tucked under the spoiler mechanic to keep the guide from being frienghteningly long and unwieldy.

Ps, I also got to borrow an HE-400, it won't replace my favorite headphone BUT it was a lot of fun without giving up great detail retrieval or being a one-trick pony. It would be a good headphone to live with


----------



## Impulse

You can also search the thread for HE-400 (using the Search This Thread tool, not just flipping thru it manually) and it'll give you every single post they're mentioned in within the thread; they've been discussed and compared at length. I'm sure if you have specific questions after that then some would be happy to answer them.


----------



## MattTCG

Just read through "the guide" for the first time. Don't know why I haven't visited before. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I guess mostly because I'm not a competitive gamer anymore. There was a couples years when I player CS till 3-4 am on a regular basis. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I did enjoy the read and thanks to MLE for the efforts here.


----------



## imagine123

Multi post, delete


----------



## imagine123

Multi post, delete


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I could go back and redo the guide for those really short entries and flesh them out, but it's been too long since I've heard most of those headphones. The guide became much bigger than I anticipated. It was gonna be something simple. Like a headphone being good or bad with a short impression. Now... it's quite a different beast. You can really see which of my entries are more recent just by the sheer size of the review.


----------



## tcgc

Hey guys, can I connect headphones (not headset) directly to Mixamp without using y-splitter?
  How about headphones > E11 (without y-splitter) > Mixamp > optical to xbox?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. The y splitter is just when you want to use a mic.

System -> optical -> Mixamp -> audio cable -> E11 -> Headphone.

The E11 isn't gonna do much extra amping to the Mixamp. I would've went with something a bit more powerful, like the E12. A 2db boost over the Mixamp's output needs about double the power. That's why desktop amps are more ideal. I highly doubt the E11 has 2x the power, let alone more for even more volume.


----------



## tcgc

Hey man, thanks for quick reply! I'm using Beyers DT-770 80 Ohm and I was about ordering a Mixamp 2011 ed. without cables from eBay.
  So looks like I won't need E11 for that case, right?
   
  I know, you wrote about this one a while ago but still, some will be reading your posts even in 2014 
  I've read good amount of posts before choosing that combination for gaming / bassy music purposes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, in that case, the E11 should be enough for the DT770 Pro 80. It's not that hard to drive.

A 3.5mm male/male cable between the E11 and Mixamp is all you'll need. Pretty sure the Mixamp and probably the E11 both come with that cable.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, in that case, the E11 should be enough for the DT770 Pro 80. It's not that hard to drive.
> 
> A 3.5mm male/male cable between the E11 and Mixamp is all you'll need.


 
   
  But since you have a generous amount of experience in BT-770 + Mixamp topic, would you suggest not using E11 at all? Will Mixamp drive it OK? I would do direct headphone 3.5mm to 3.5mm mixamp connection then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, you can get by with the Mixamp alone. I'd honestly save up for at least an E9 to power the DT770 Pro 80 to a higher level. I'm not a fan of portable amps as they just don't have that much power, relative to desktop amps. The E12 is the one exception that I've seen that doesn't cost a ton of money. The E9 costs like $30 more than the E11, and I say it'd worth it. I prefer the E9K though for better inputs, and it's a little more.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, you can get by with the Mixamp alone. I'd honestly save up for at least an E9 to power the DT770 Pro 80 to a higher level. I'm not a fan of portable amps as they just don't have that much power, relative to desktop amps. The E12 is the one exception that I've seen that doesn't cost a ton of money. The E9 costs like $30 more than the E11, and I say it'd worth it. I prefer the E9K though for better inputs, and it's a little more.


 
   
  Hey man, now I'm confused, I thought of getting E11 before since lots of guys gave good reviews for such combo with DT-770. How about O2 or C5? I thought of going the NwAvGuy way via O2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As I said, I dont like portable amps. You're paying more for the portability, than actual technicalities. If you can spring for a desktop amp, it will improve your headphones more.

The O2... I dont like its front inputs. For that, I would rather get the Schiit Magni which is cheaper and comparable. I like the E9k over the Magni due to the extra inputs and versatility. The higher output impedance wouldn't hurt the Dt770 pro 80, as its 80ohms.

Regardless of what you get, I would save up for a desktop amp over a portanle one.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As I said, I dont like portable amps. You're paying more for the portability, than actual technicalities. If you can spring for a desktop amp, it will improve your headphones more.
> 
> The O2... I dont like its front inputs. For that, I would rather get the Schiit Magni which is cheaper and comparable. I like the E9k over the Magni due to the extra inputs and versatility. The higher output impedance wouldn't hurt the Dt770 pro 80, as its 80ohms.
> 
> Regardless of what you get, I would save up for a desktop amp over a portanle one.


 
   
  Well, kinda sad what happened to NwAvGuy and some Schiit product users, so I don't won't to go with Schiit by now.
  Perhaps I'll try Modi/Magni somewhere in distant future when I'll be more experienced.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What happened?


----------



## SniperCzar

Not familiar with the details, but I think there was at least one video going around showing serious overvolting deforming/popping drivers which caused mass panic and confusion. I think the problem was fixed pretty soon afterwards.
   
  As for 770 Pros, they work wonderfully well with my E17. Really low output impedance makes the bass nice and tight. I'm not sure what MLE tested on for his initial review but in that sense the Beyers could absolutely benefit from a decent amp, even though they might be easy to drive at a good volume from a Mixamp (or anything else)


----------



## adrelion

Hello, I've been reading your headphone gaming guide for awhile now since I saw someone link it on the Gaming PC subreddit on reddit. However I'm not the most experienced when it comes to this stuff either. Which leads me to my newbie question pertaining to using headphones only as opposed to headsets for gaming and music/movies. Now if I got the AKG K702 65th Annie headphones for example do I need something like the AstroGaming Mix Amp to get 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound or will it just be stereo on my PC if I plug it into my motherboard on my PC?
   
  My PC's motherboard does support up to 7.1 surround on it. However I'm assuming if I would need an actual surround sound system for that to work. Or will I just have to change a setting in my Windows 7 OS to get 7.1 out of the headphones? Otherwise I'd assume it would just play stereo 2.1 correct?
   
  I currently own a Logitech G930 gaming headset, but the mic on it sucks. So I'm trying to find some other headphones/headsets I can buy. Hence browsing through your guide and these questions. Now I know you owned a pair of Astro A50s at one point. Do you happen to know if that headset works for surround if it's just paired with a USB cable to my PC by any chance? My computer doesn't have any optical cable ports.
   
  Thank you in advance, and great job on the guide. It was very helpful in understanding some things pertaining to certain headsets and headphones. Currently leaning towards one of these 3 A50 (wireless), K702 Annie (seems to have the best rating/balance for price ratio), or the PC360 by Sennheiser.


----------



## burritoboy9984

adrelion said:


> Hello, I've been reading your headphone gaming guide for awhile now since I saw someone link it on the Gaming PC subreddit on reddit. However I'm not the most experienced when it comes to this stuff either. Which leads me to my newbie question pertaining to using headphones only as opposed to headsets for gaming and music/movies. Now if I got the AKG K702 65th Annie headphones for example do I need something like the AstroGaming Mix Amp to get 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound or will it just be stereo on my PC if I plug it into my motherboard on my PC?
> 
> My PC's motherboard does support up to 7.1 surround on it. However I'm assuming if I would need an actual surround sound system for that to work. Or will I just have to change a setting in my Windows 7 OS to get 7.1 out of the headphones? Otherwise I'd assume it would just play stereo 2.1 correct?
> 
> ...




Let me start by saying this is a question more geared for Nameless, but I'll do my best to get you started in the right direction.

If you are using onboard audio, and there isn't an optical out port on your motherboard, an Astro Mixamp will do you no good.

For surround the best option would be to purchase a sound card that has Dolby Headphone or something similar, the sound card will take the surround audio from the game and do the same thing the mixamp would have done if it was fed the surround signal via optical.

As far as headphones go, if you are strictly going to be using them for gaming, you really can't go wrong with the PC360's, for the price and the fact they come with a mic, you shouldn't look any further.

-Erik


----------



## adrelion

Hi Erik, thanks for the reply. I wouldn't strictly use them for gaming. I want to use them for music and movies as well. I'll have to look for a good sound card I guess then if I go for headphones instead. Any recommendations from your experiences?


----------



## namloc

[size=1.7em] So I've taken the advice from the recent pages and removed the likes of vmoda m100 from my short list. [/size]   
It now consists of...
[size=1.7em]  [/size] [size=1.7em] HiFiMAN HE-400[/size] Philips Fidelio X1
[size=1.7em] Denon AH-D600[/size] [size=1.7em] Beyer Dynamic DT 990 Premium[/size] 
I'll buy whatever one gets the most love, or if someone recommends something similar that's unanimously better.  (these will be replacing my rattling Q701s that replaced my rattling Q701s..)

 Detachable cable is almost a must ( i had Sennheiser PC 350s and had a lot of problems with replacing the cable)

 I wear my headphones almost all day/night so they have to be comfy 

 (my soundcard is the STX
 my computer is i5 3570k, sli gtx 670, yamakasi catleap 120hz 27" monitor. 
 i need something bad arse that finishes off my kewl gaming rig)


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Not familiar with the details, but I think there was at least one video going around showing serious overvolting deforming/popping drivers which caused mass panic and confusion. I think the problem was fixed pretty soon afterwards.
> 
> As for 770 Pros, they work wonderfully well with my E17. Really low output impedance makes the bass nice and tight. I'm not sure what MLE tested on for his initial review but in that sense the Beyers could absolutely benefit from a decent amp, even though they might be easy to drive at a good volume from a Mixamp (or anything else)


 
   
  I thought of getting a Mixamp just because of Dolby Digital 5.1, will I get the same kinda feeling if I'll try to go E17?
  Certainly, these amplifier are almost like night and day but still I want that immersive feeling of surround sound.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





tcgc said:


> I thought of getting a Mixamp just because of Dolby Digital 5.1, will I get the same kinda feeling if I'll try to go E17?
> Certainly, these amplifier are almost like night and day but still I want that immersive feeling of surround sound.


 
   

 I use my E17 with my PC soundcard (X-Fi) which does virtual surround over optical out.

 If you're just using it for a console, you're not going to get that surround without a dedicated device like the mixamp. You'd probably do well to find something to tame the bass a little though if you're doing anything competitive. Low output impedance seems to help with the Beyers and something with an actual bass adjustment like the FiiO would let the important cues come in a lot clearer. I'm sure there are probably cheaper amps with low output impedance and a bass adjustment too.


----------



## Impulse

tcgc said:


> Well, kinda sad what happened to NwAvGuy and some Schiit product users, so I don't won't to go with Schiit by now.
> Perhaps I'll try Modi/Magni somewhere in distant future when I'll be more experienced.




That situation was blown way out of proportion, I wouldn't base your opinions of Schiit gear based on the stink that NWAVguy raised over one small issue (that was eventually addressed to any customer's satisfaction). I actually value a lot of what NWAVguy did and all the info he put out there, but some of the arguments he got into were rather inane and at the end of the day the O2/ODAC are just a nice value but there's other products that represent just as strong of a value (M&M, E09K, etc.). 

Some people got an entirely distorted message from reading the man's blog and they come away with this impression that you can't do better than the O2 regardless of what you pay, couldn't be way more off the mark. Schiit makes some nice gear for the money and it seems like they have really excellent customer service. I don't believe NWAVguy ever actually reviewed or owned one of their amps either, just saying...

I agree wholeheartedly with his message about transparency in the audio industry, but not necessarily about the whipping targets he chose. Not to mention it's all ancient history, the guy vanished and stopped writing and Schiit is still putting out new products (the Magni came out months if not years after that whole thing).




adrelion said:


> Hi Erik, thanks for the reply. I wouldn't strictly use them for gaming. I want to use them for music and movies as well. I'll have to look for a good sound card I guess then if I go for headphones instead. Any recommendations from your experiences?




You should look up Nameless' PC gaming thread, it explains all the finer points about headphone virtual surround when it comes to PCs, though it can get a little dense... This thread is aimed at general headphone recommendations for gaming but from a console pov.

That being said, yeah, a sound card would essentially perform a Mixamp's duties on a PC, all the while being cheaper and better sounding. The two most common options are either an ASUS Xonar Essence STX (Dolby Headphone) as an all in solution (great DAC, strong amp), or a Xonar DGX / Creative X-fi Titanium HD (CMSS-3D) + an external amp. 

Either would run you about the same, the STX can be cheaper if you catch a sale but it plays better with higher impedance headphones or headphones that tolerate it's 10 ohm output impedance better (AKG, planar magnetics). The latter can be more flexible to an extent (pair it with any amp you want) but a little trickier if you wanna switch between headphones and speakers (would want an amp with pre-outs, or switch cables manually).

Although if you're going with a headphone that's easy to drive (like the PC360) then a cheap DGX or the Ti HD by itself might be enough for you.


----------



## Impulse

namloc said:


> Philips Fidelio X1 | Beyer DT 990 | Denon D600 | HiFiMan HE-400
> 
> I'll buy whatever one gets the most love, or if someone recommends something similar that's unanimously better.  (these will be replacing my rattling Q701s that replaced my rattling Q701s..)
> 
> ...




There's a big price gap between some of those headphones... In any case, let's ignore that or their general sound signature for a second. 

X1 might not pair the best with your STX's 10 ohm output impedance, they're like 32 ohm so damping factor would be low which might make bass too loose etc. The Denon's impedance is even lower so they'd face the same issue, plus I don't think as closed headphones they'd be on the same level for gaming as those other open headphones... Mind you, I haven't heard them, but from what I've read they were a disappointment compared to Denon's old and now-discontinued line (D2000/5000/7000).

So that leaves the DT990 & HE-400... The former don't have a removable cable sooo, addition by subtraction leaves you with the Hifimans? The Beyers are still some of the most durable and comfortable headphones out there tho, and they're significantly cheaper if you buy them at the right time (as much as 50% cheaper...). You could get both and decide for yourself whether the HE-400 are worth it to you, return whichever. Crutchfield sells the HE-400 and I think they have like a 60 day satisfaction guaranteed return period. Amazon's price for the Beyers seesaws like a rollercoaster, the Pro version's often cheaper tho, seen it go under $200.

btw What the heck do you do to your posts that makes them such a pain to edit for brevity when quoting? All this extra code/tags in them, you changing fonts or something?


----------



## Impulse

I posted this on Nameless' thread but since I know there's more eyeballs on this one and some of you also have an STX, here goes a repost:




impulse said:


> Not sure how I'd never run across this before, Essence Toggle:
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/essencetoggle/home
> 
> Very useful for for anyone with a Xonar STX, enables hotkey switching from speakers to headphones (can even set it to revert volume levels or enable DH). Haven't tried it yet but I'm gonna do so as soon as I get home...


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





namloc said:


> yamakasi catleap 120hz 27" monitor.
> i need something bad arse that finishes off my kewl gaming rig


 

 Hah! I thought I was the only one here at Head-Fi who was rocking one of those bad boys... guess I was wrong!

 Also, you can always mod the cable later to just about anything, I'm considering getting my Beyers a removable cable mod similar to http://www.head-fi.org/t/643648/beyer-dt770-pro-80-detachable-cable-mod#post_9013531


----------



## Chubtoad

So I was completely set on the DT990 Pro's but after more reading I'm looking at the HE-400s now. This is more for a gaming heavy situation, with some music/movies. I don't do 100% competitive gaming, more of an all-rounder, single player, co op and some competitive so I wouldn't probably be to worried about either choice not being 100% prime for competitiveness. I'm looking more at the fun/immersiveness side of things.
   
  I'll have the 2013 astro mixamp pro, and either a schiit magni or FiiO E09k,  and if necessary at some point a schiit modi or FiiO e17k as the DAC if im not using the mixamp.
   
  I keep reading more and more about how great the HE-400s are and I'm willing to shell out for them if they really are that much better. ( from what I can see, they might not be as bassy as the DT990 Pro, but there pretty much better at everything else? )
   
  I live in Canada so most headphones are premium prices here compared to anywhere else, the HE-400s are $449 with the velour pads added on, free shipping. The DT990 Pro (250 ohm version) are as cheap as 164.99 at times so the price difference is pretty big, but again I'm looking at whichever would be better overall. I kind of like the saying of buy once, cry once 
   
   
  Help me out!


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> So I was completely set on the DT990 Pro's but after more reading I'm looking at the HE-400s now. This is more for a gaming heavy situation, with some music/movies. I don't do 100% competitive gaming, more of an all-rounder, single player, co op and some competitive so I wouldn't probably be to worried about either choice not being 100% prime for competitiveness. I'm looking more at the fun/immersiveness side of things.
> 
> I'll have the 2013 astro mixamp pro, and either a schiit magni or FiiO E09k,  and if necessary at some point a schiit modi or FiiO e17k as the DAC if im not using the mixamp.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Have you considered the AKG K702 65th Anniversary ("Annies")?  Not as bass heavy as either of the aforementioned cans from your post, but they're terrific all-arounders that are reportedly far lighter than the HE-400 and are extremely solid game gaming, music, and movies.  The merits of all three have been discussed in the past, so I'm sure a search would lead you to some direct comparisons from this thread.  They can be had at RazorDog Audio for $400 after coupon code which is less than the HE-400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annie is the best all rounder for sure. The HE-400 is great if you want a little more v-shaped and fuller bass. Both are better than the 990 Pros in mids and treble. The 990 Pros are half the price though, and does extremely well, especially for those that want extra fun.


----------



## Chubtoad

Just took a look at the end price from Razordog audio and yeah it would come to 429 after the shipping and discount, thats crazy!
   
  I guess i'll do a little reading about them now but it sounds like those could probably be what I end up with, thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There's very little to complain about there, unless you need a LOT of bass. The Annie has good, balanced bass. Even lively when called for. It's an amazing starting place... and would be an end game headphone for me, if I wasn't so impulsive.


----------



## Chubtoad

I like bass, but I don't like it to drown out everything else so you cant hear what else is going on if you know what I mean, like I don't want weak bass but I don't want it overpowering everything else in the process


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> There's very little to complain about there, unless you need a LOT of bass. The Annie has good, balanced bass. Even lively when called for. It's an amazing starting place... and would be an end game headphone for me, if I wasn't so impulsive.


 
   
  I spent all weekend listening and A/B testing with the Annie and the DT 990 Premium 600ohm.  Coming from the HD555, the DT990 was such a huge step up that I never realized how sharp the treble can be for music.  After listening to the Annie, the DT990 was like listening to a metronome as I played through some of my favorite music.  I finally understood the 'sparkle' everyone talks about when discussing the DT990.  Despite having a really great low-end response with a lot of impact, the DT990 felt more airy in the soundstage department, but that was probably due to the warmth of the Annies, along with more forward mid-range. Bass response from both headphones is good.  I don't find the 990 bass to be overpowering, but there is a fair amount of impact.  The Annie's bass is nearly as full, but maybe not as impactful.  To put it as simply as possible: the DT990 can make you feel the bass and can even slightly rumble, and I've yet to experience that on the Annie - even if it is accurately reproducing the bass that is required.
   
  I'm not trying to exaggerate, but I can't see the DT990 ever being my go-to music can again; I just can't "unhear" the metronome-like effect of the high hat or a snare beat.  For gaming, I feel like the performance is similar and as many have said on this thread, Dolby Headphone does tame the 990s hot treble, but I didn't really get in as much A/B time for gaming as I would have liked.  If price is a consideration, the DT990 are a tremendous deal (with the proper amplification) - especially if you're planning on primarily gaming.  If you want an all-arounder and are willing to put down a little more coin, the Annie is hard to top at its price range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990's issue is basically just that hot treble. If you have a good EQ... the treble peak can be tamed, and greatly adds to the 990. Of course, I'm not one for EQ, so I just ditch a headphone for something more to my liking.

The 990 is still one of my absolute faves, and a constant recommendation in the price range, for sure.


----------



## Chubtoad

to steal a quote from your headphone guide
   
  "*Amping*: As with the older models, the Annie is very sneaky in terms of amping requirements. It needs minimal amping to play loudly, but the AKGs are notorious for craving as much power as 600ohm headphones. The Q701 was the most amp reliant headphone I had ever heard, and changed the most out of any Dynamic headphone I ever heard and reviewed here. You will get away with moderate amping, but believe me, you will be doing a disservice to all the Ks and Qs by skimping out on amping. If you're gonna spend this much money on these headphones, you shouldn't feed it weak power, IMHO. They will reward you. The Annie is definitely the easiest of the models to power in terms of sounding good, but they still want power. Still, if you absolutely can't do with much amping, the Annie sounds quite full and refined off lesser equipment compared to the other models."
   
are the magni or e09k adequate enough for the annies or would i need more?


----------



## cheuh

I've read that both the DT 990's and HE-400's have sharp treble. Which one is more sibilant and more fatiguing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chubtoad, both of those will be fine. They scale with better amps, but not by much. When I say they are sneaky in terms of power, it's that they sound good even unamped, but you're not getting their potential. A desktop amp like the Magni and E9K will go a long way.


cheuh, that's a hard question. The DT990 is brighter overall, with a stronger treble, but like I mentioned, it lives in it's brightness, so your ears adjust to the sound. The HE-400 is a warm/dark headphone overall, but the treble is a bit out of place as it's quite bright, which is the polar opposite of the general tone of the HE-400, so it ends up being a little more jarring, IMHO. If we're talking pure quantity, the 990 has more treble.

Overall though, the HE-400 is a safer bet, as you do get a more pleasant tone overall.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> to steal a quote from your headphone guide
> 
> "*Amping*: As with the older models, the Annie is very sneaky in terms of amping requirements. It needs minimal amping to play loudly, but the AKGs are notorious for craving as much power as 600ohm headphones. The Q701 was the most amp reliant headphone I had ever heard, and changed the most out of any Dynamic headphone I ever heard and reviewed here. You will get away with moderate amping, but believe me, you will be doing a disservice to all the Ks and Qs by skimping out on amping. If you're gonna spend this much money on these headphones, you shouldn't feed it weak power, IMHO. They will reward you. The Annie is definitely the easiest of the models to power in terms of sounding good, but they still want power. Still, if you absolutely can't do with much amping, the Annie sounds quite full and refined off lesser equipment compared to the other models."
> 
> are the magni or e09k adequate enough for the annies or would i need more?


 
   
  The Annie sounded fine off my E09k.  You can always upgrade down the road.


----------



## Vader2k

Help!
   
  Now that I have the Marantz with DH, I'm trying to reconfigure things and see about doing away with the Mixamp.  I've extended the Annies cable length so I can comfortably reach the receiver from my couch.  But I'm having some problems getting my LVA 7330 mic working directly with the wireless xbox controller.
   
  I had grabbed this 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter from monoprice, but when I hook the mic into the controller and try to record voice, nothing comes across.  If I'm not trying to get voice sound out of the controller to a headphone, but rather only trying to get voice into the controller from the mic, shouldn't this work?


----------



## unclerico

Senn PC 360's...will stretching them relieve the clamping force?
   
  I've read thread after thread about guys with big heads who want a really nice set of gaming cans and nothing really comes out as the winner. I'm pretty sold on the pc 360's or 598's but i really want some comfort for my big head. Has anyone successfully stretched these out or do they just revert back to the original clamping force?
   
  Any big heads out there, who have found a nice combo of great gaming cans + comfort?
   
  thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, the PC360 is all plastic, and stretching the headband won't really do anything. What I did is just over extend the arms so they fit a little more loosely than what you consider a snug fit. It relieves some of the pressure.


----------



## unclerico

Did your pc360's go back to the normal clamp pressure after a while or did they stay looser for good? Thanks for the help, life is hard living with a large melon!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't remember. It's always been clampy. Like I said, you can't do much with the clamp on those. Just wear them loosely. The Senns have a hell of a lot of extension, which should fit any gargantuan head and then some.


----------



## 3X0

WRT K702-65th, why don't you just get a ~$200 pair of Q701s and procure/produce earpads with similar properties to the 65s for far, far less?


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> WRT K702-65th, why don't you just get a ~$200 pair of Q701s and procure/produce earpads with similar properties to the 65s for far, far less?


 
   
  Dat colorway / headband.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because the Q701 has the horrible bumped headband, which is a pain in the ass to swap out?

Q701 atm = $275
Annie pads: $75
Headband swap = ???
Total = $350+headband price

Annies = $400

You get everything in one swoop with the Annies, for a little more, plus the warranty (non-modding necessary).

Also, the Annie was still a hint warmer than the Q701 with the Annie pads from my personal experience, though it was minute.

It's also sexier (IMHO), a limited/special run as well.

If you already own the Q701, then yeah, I'd say get the pads. If you don't own them, I'd recommend saving up for the Annies. That's just me.


----------



## 3X0

Seems to just be subtleties and QOL improvements for that absurd difference.
   
  Harman routinely puts refurbished (full warranty) Q701s at $199 or less buy-it-now on eBay, and I think those are be a steal relatively to the heinous cost of a K702 Annie for what is essentially the same headphone.
   
  But then again, I'm a man to advocate a used pair of HD 580s over HD 600s any day of the week for similar reasons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To each their own. I like the looks more, and the headband is a night and day difference in comfort. The headband swap is NOT easy and will probably void warranty if you try it on the Q701. Ideally, to save money, you'll want a Q701, Annie pads, and K601 headband. Yes, you save money, assuming you can swap the headband with ease. For everyone else, there's the Annie. Price is less than $100 for the special model over the Q701 with the extras if you shop around. Assuming you're getting new. I'll take the best edition for that small difference in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To each their own. I like the looks more, and the headband is a night and day difference in comfort. The headband swap is NOT easy and will probably void warranty if you try it on the Q701. Ideally, to save money, you'll want a Q701, Annie pads, and K601 headband. Yes, you save money, assuming you can swap the headband with ease. For everyone else, there's the Annie. Price is less than $100 for the special model over the Q701 with the extras if you shop around. Assuming you're getting new. I'll take the best edition for that small difference in the grand scheme of things.


 

 I guess it's a bit of an unfair comparison since the K702-65th are pretty much only available new right now (at near-MSRP), whereas there are amazing deals to be had on Q701 in the used and refurbished market.
   
  At least there's solace in the fact that despite being "Limited", you'll still be able to create a ghetto Annie with spare parts when they're gone. Beyerdynamic and AKG are doing limited edition in an admirable way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me.


----------



## pietcux

Has anyone ever tried to turn the K 702/701 headband upside down? I mean only the leather part. I am looking at it right now, but do not dare to rip it apart......


----------



## dutchgenius

Tried a few recommended gaming headphones from around the web (Overclock.net mainly) - JVC HARX900 (good sound, good ear pads, heavy, and eventually a little painful on the tips of my ears) and Ultrasone DJ1 Pro (comfortable, good sound, cheap ear pads though, eventually started hitting my new piercing)
   
  looking for something that can allow me to game or listen to music for a couple hours.  Was considering the Creative Aurvana Live, even though they appear to be On-ear because I have ready they are still amazingly plush. looking for something preferably velour (but I understand is tough at this price range) or quality pleather for under $100, around the ear is best but it could be tough as I have pierced lobes and an industrial barbell.
   
  Thoughts?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## SniperCzar

Rereading all the reviews again, I'd really love to pick up some Annies for gaming some day soon (sorry wallet), but I'd have a hard time rationalizing it. I feel like with the way I already have my Beyers amped and bass-damped (through my E17) the Annies are probably only a bit more comfortable. If only MLE would have had his E17 back when he tested the 770 Pros 

 I feel like I'd do better hanging onto the 770s for gaming and just picking up some HE-400s or HD650s for music/movies to have something with a very different presentation from the warmer sound on the Beyers. Neither of them seems overly light and sparkly but they should still give me something to contrast with the Beyers, not to mention they're open cans. I suppose I could also just stick with Beyerdynamic again and just try some 880s, more comfortable and more open for listening to music. I guess I'm not sure whether I should go for a completely different sounding headphone or just something nice all around that's a little less in your face than the 770s, and doesn't have to be fantastic for gaming (but preferably still above average). Any thoughts?


----------



## Chubtoad

I'm looking at pricing of the Magni, its $99 US + tax/conversion + $33 shipping to Canada, if I had to estimate that would probably run close to 150ish after all was said and done
   
  there is a respectable canadian site that sells the FiiO stuff, E09k/E17 combo for $249 + tax with free shipping, or E09k by itself for $119 + tax with free shipping
   
  the prices probably come out to about the same in the end, so I guess i'll just do whichever one happens to turn out cheaper.
   
  Thanks for all the help so far, I'm quite excited to be close to placing my order finally


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me.


 
   
  Sounds like a fun endeavor. I'd be behind you whole heartedly on it. Willing to help out any way I can with it as well.


----------



## namloc

Quote: 





impulse said:


> There's a big price gap between some of those headphones... In any case, let's ignore that or their general sound signature for a second.
> 
> X1 might not pair the best with your STX's 10 ohm output impedance, they're like 32 ohm so damping factor would be low which might make bass too loose etc. The Denon's impedance is even lower so they'd face the same issue, plus I don't think as closed headphones they'd be on the same level for gaming as those other open headphones... Mind you, I haven't heard them, but from what I've read they were a disappointment compared to Denon's old and now-discontinued line (D2000/5000/7000).
> 
> ...


 

  
  Thanks for your help. I know nothing about impedance and damping factors or the likes. It's very frustrating as it seems the Q701 reviews better than anything else around the same price, thats why i started looking at slightly more expensive headphones but thats only added more confusion into the mix. Given that i have a STX and apparently that reduces my options some what. What are some alternitives to the HE-400 you and others might consider?

 Sorry about the messy post XD


----------



## namloc

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> Hah! I thought I was the only one here at Head-Fi who was rocking one of those bad boys... guess I was wrong!
> 
> Also, you can always mod the cable later to just about anything, I'm considering getting my Beyers a removable cable mod similar to http://www.head-fi.org/t/643648/beyer-dt770-pro-80-detachable-cable-mod#post_9013531


 
  When i was 12 my pencil case in wood work was by far the worst in the class, I'd consider myself very dexterous but for whatever reason when it comes to anything that even slightly resembles crafts i stay clear. Mods are a total no go for me 

 Hell yeah dude i love my monitor! i know this isn't a monitor lover forums but seriously if anyone want to treat themselves to an absolutely amazing monitor you'll struggle to beat the yamakasi catleap !


----------



## Impulse

dutchgenius said:


> Tried a few recommended gaming headphones from around the web (Overclock.net mainly) - JVC HARX900 (good sound, good ear pads, heavy, and eventually a little painful on the tips of my ears) and Ultrasone DJ1 Pro (comfortable, good sound, cheap ear pads though, eventually started hitting my new piercing)
> 
> looking for something that can allow me to game or listen to music for a couple hours.  Was considering the Creative Aurvana Live, even though they appear to be On-ear because I have ready they are still amazingly plush. looking for something preferably velour (but I understand is tough at this price range) or quality pleather for under $100, around the ear is best but it could be tough as I have pierced lobes and an industrial barbell.
> 
> Thoughts?  Thanks in advance.




Used HD 558? The oval pads might be less of an issue with your piercings, there's the 518 too but I haven't heard them.




sniperczar said:


> Rereading all the reviews again, I'd really love to pick up some Annies for gaming some day soon (sorry wallet), but I'd have a hard time rationalizing it. I feel like with the way I already have my Beyers amped and bass-damped (through my E17) the Annies are probably only a bit more comfortable. If only MLE would have had his E17 back when he tested the 770 Pros
> 
> 
> I feel like I'd do better hanging onto the 770s for gaming and just picking up some HE-400s or HD650s for music/movies to have something with a very different presentation from the warmer sound on the Beyers. Neither of them seems overly light and sparkly but they should still give me something to contrast with the Beyers, not to mention they're open cans. I suppose I could also just stick with Beyerdynamic again and just try some 880s, more comfortable and more open for listening to music. I guess I'm not sure whether I should go for a completely different sounding headphone or just something nice all around that's a little less in your face than the 770s, and doesn't have to be fantastic for gaming (but preferably still above average). Any thoughts?




Personally I think the DT 880 are overlooked a lot as good all-arounders, specially by people considering the 990 but a little scared of it's treble... The 880 tame that down, they're still bright but much closer to neutral. As to your question, hard to say without knowing your preference in music... Going open for music and closed for gaming seems counter intuitive, I think you'd just end up preferring several of those over the 770 (for everything) unless you have a particular need for isolation at times (a very valid rationale for the 770) or you do enjoy some bass heavy music.


----------



## Impulse

namloc, the HE-400 are low impedance but they aren't affected much by the STX's output impedance because planar magnetics have a flat impedance curve... I think that or the 250 ohm Beyers (880/990) are fine choices, two different price points, just pick one.  Not sure what else to suggest if gaming's a priority and you're ruling out AKG, maybe someone else has another alternative.


----------



## tcgc

Guys, what's the purpose of connecting E17 to E09K? Isn't E09K a good desktop amplifier on its own, why we should add up another portable amp over it? In terms of connectivity, yeah, E17's DAC function of connecting an optical is a good addition but what is worth of "USB In" in E09K then. Other than optical input in DAC I can't see real purpose of using E17 on top of E09K, please give me some insight guys.


----------



## Impulse

The E09 is an amp only. The E17 is a DAC and portable amp, when docked in the E09 it uses that as it's amp instead. The USB connection on the E09 is just to power the E17. You'd use the E17 if you don't have a decent DAC (laptop, desktop without sound card, etc) or if you wanna bypass a DAC (LOD from a portable player etc.). You'd have no use for it if you're hooking up the E09 to a Mixamp or some other source/DAC. The E17 as a DAC can be used thru USB or optical, the E09 as an amp needs either an analog source (RCA input) or one of Fiio's DAC to dock in thru the proprietary connection.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





impulse said:


> The E09 is an amp only. The E17 is a DAC and portable amp, when docked in the E09 it uses that as it's amp instead. The USB connection on the E09 is just to power the E17. You'd use the E17 if you don't have a decent DAC (laptop, desktop without sound card, etc) or if you wanna bypass a DAC (LOD from a portable player etc.). You'd have no use for it if you're hooking up the E09 to a Mixamp or some other source/DAC. The E17 as a DAC can be used thru USB or optical, the E09 as an amp needs either an analog source (RCA input) or one of Fiio's DAC to dock in thru the proprietary connection.


 
   
  I see, gets clearer now. Well, my current ASUS motherboard has an optical out but perhaps I'll get ASUS Xonar soundcard one day. So, by now the main question for me would be - Isn't that better to use a soundcard via TOSLink / digital rather going via RCA / analog. Then why FiiO haven't gave us an option of digital inputs rather just staying with analogs in E09K, just to sell another device as E17 / E07K in addition?


----------



## Impulse

It seems you still haven't quite grasped the difference between a DAC and an amp (no offense), once you've understood that then all these questions become kinda self evident... You always need a DAC (source) and an amp. A sound card or a Mixamp are effectively DACs (and also amps, of varying quality). 

A DAC is a digital to analog converter, it transforms those digital bits from your PC/console/whatever into an analog electrical signal that your headphones can use. An amplifier boosts and enhances that analog signal (gross oversimplification but go with it). If Fiio were to put a digital input into the E09 (whether optical or coax) then they'd essentially be putting a DAC into the device to convert that digital signal into an analog one...

Thus it wouldn't be a $100 amp anymore, it'd be a $175+ DAC/amp; and such units exist, Audioengine D1, Leckerton UHA-6S MkII, HRT MicroStreamer, etc... Hell even the Mixamp is both a DAC and an amp, it's just a poor amp. At some point you're always gonna go from the digital domain to the analog one, and doing it all inside the same device (vs going from a DAC's analog line out to something like the E09's input) isn't inherently better... 

A lot of people would argue discrete components are actually better (less interference from a high powered amp sharing a casing with a DAC etc) but those are all generalizations and ultimately it depends on your budget and needs. A sound card like the STX can be as good as any combination of separate components in the same price range for instance.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





impulse said:


> It seems you still haven't quite grasped the difference between a DAC and an amp (no offense), once you've understood that then all these questions become kinda self evident... You always need a DAC (source) and an amp. A sound card or a Mixamp are effectively DACs (and also amps, of varying quality).
> 
> A DAC is a digital to analog converter, it transforms those digital bits from your PC/console/whatever into an analog electrical signal that your headphones can use. An amplifier boosts and enhances that analog signal (gross oversimplification but go with it). If Fiio were to put a digital input into the E09 (whether optical or coax) then they'd essentially be putting a DAC into the device to convert that digital signal into an analog one...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your time man, yeah well, now I got this. Somehow I missed the point of converting digital signal (say, xbox360) to analog so the headphones would understand it. Since I was using mediaplayers which were able to get headphones in without any DAC I wasn't sure what might be the problem of getting a separate DAC.
   
  Well, even in terms of Mixamp I wasn't thinking about it as a DAC, rather 2.1 to 5.1 (7.1) "converter"
   
  Speaking back about FiiO E17 + E09K, too bad that if I'll want to use them as whole the cable will be sticking out from E17 at the left top corner when personally I like my connections to be concealed, i.e. at the back.


----------



## Impulse

A media player is essentially both things in one too (usually a poor amp but there's still varying degrees and it depends on the headphones etc). A DAC can be a straight stereo DAC (like most USB DAC) but it can also be a processor that does different things to the signal (like a Mixamp, sound card, etc)... Although at that point we're diluting the meaning of the acronym to an extent, I guess technically there's a DAC in those devices plus other DSP functions (digital signal processing).

What would you be using the E17/E09 with, a PC? You don't have to use the optical in, you could just use USB... I believe that's what the USB pass thru on the back of the E09 is for, powering the E17 and/or hooking it up to your computer.


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





impulse said:


> A media player is essentially both things in one too (usually a poor amp but there's still varying degrees and it depends on the headphones etc). A DAC can be a straight stereo DAC (like most USB DAC) but it can also be a processor that does different things to the signal (like a Mixamp, sound card, etc)... Although at that point we're diluting the meaning of the acronym to an extent, I guess technically there's a DAC in those devices plus other DSP functions (digital signal processing).
> 
> What would you be using the E17/E09 with, a PC? You don't have to use the optical in, you could just use USB... I believe that's what the USB pass thru on the back of the E09 is for, powering the E17 and/or hooking it up to your computer.


 
   
  Well, actually the E09K's dock already powers E17, so looks like USB goes to PC as I thought. But does it power E09K rather using power adapter or actually transferring digital audio like my Plantronics headset?


----------



## Impulse

Your Plantronics headset has a USB DAC (like the E17) inside it's dongle or housing somewhere, it isn't bypassing any of what I've described before... That's what often makes USB headset's such a bad value, you're paying for some average to mediocre DAC/amp circuitry in addition to the headphones (and everything's crammed in wherever).

The E09k's USB connection doesn't serve any purpose unless the E17's docked in, when the E17's docked that USB connection (on the E09k) allows the E17 to communicate with the computer as if it were hooked up directly (sans E09k), only it's using the E09k's more powerful amp circuitry instead of the E17's... You still need to power the E09k itself from the wall tho. This isn't rocket science man... 

I've already forgotten where this whole thing started, but if PC gaming (or even console gaming) is your main concern then you don't really need the E17... A cheaper or comparable sound card (Xonar DGX or Creative Titanium HD) will act as a DAC just as well as the E17 (better in some cases) plus it gives you access to virtual surround processing for gaming (Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D).

There isn't anything inherently inferior about going from the card's line out to the amp's RCA in (I mention it because it seems like a concern to you), at some point the signal is going from digital to analog no matter what. Headphone drivers are a purely analog device... Maybe I'm not doing the best job of explaining all this and I'm just confusing you further and spamming the thread. 

Anyway, back to the E17, part of it's value is that it's a portable unit... In addition to the DAC you're also paying for the battery inside it, the display and direct access to various EQ functions, multiple inputs, and the portable battery-powered amp. If you don't need any of that then there's better DACs you can pair the E09k with (or even other a amps to consider), regardless of whether you want it primarily for music or gaming (I've forgotten by now).


----------



## tcgc

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Your Plantronics headset has a USB DAC (like the E17) inside it's dongle or housing somewhere, it isn't bypassing any of what I've described before... That's what often makes USB headset's such a bad value, you're paying for some average to mediocre DAC/amp circuitry in addition to the headphones (and everything's crammed in wherever).
> 
> The E09k's USB connection doesn't serve any purpose unless the E17's docked in, when the E17's docked that USB connection (on the E09k) allows the E17 to communicate with the computer as if it were hooked up directly (sans E09k), only it's using the E09k's more powerful amp circuitry instead of the E17's... You still need to power the E09k itself from the wall tho. This isn't rocket science man...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Got it, thanks for the detailed explanation 
   
  Other than gaming I would really love to get some high quality recordings and perhaps buy additional open-back headphones later on. Then I would come back to desktop amp choosing topic.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me.


 
   
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Sounds like a fun endeavor. I'd be behind you whole heartedly on it. Willing to help out any way I can with it as well.


 
   
  Count me in!


----------



## kellte2

New AKG's:  http://www.akg.com/K712+PRO-827.html?pid=1408
   
  Apparently 3 db increase on the low end.
   
  ALSO: 
   
  RazorDog! Audio Promo for the K702 Annies = RazorDog65th.  Reduces the price to $375.00.  Pretty awesome deal.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> New AKG's:  http://www.akg.com/K712+PRO-827.html?pid=1408
> 
> Apparently 3 db increase on the low end.
> 
> ...


 
  Definitely just announced today, but interested to see some impressions on the K712.


----------



## Impulse

Heh, what are the odds that this is the inevitable non-limited edition Anniversary-equivalent? No pricing info yet? Either way, at 'least it seems they finally gave up on the headband bumps for good... I kinda like the red/black color scheme, looks like more of an orange-y/bronze highlight actually.


----------



## Chubtoad

Alright I ordered my Annies!
   
  I was looking at the mic suggestions in the guide and the modmic looks nice, but its currently out of stock
   
  and this clip on mic http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080 has been out of stock for a long time now.
   
  would either of these be the same thing basically? http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-3-5mm-jack-180cm-cable-42965 or http://dx.com/p/mini-microphone-w-clip-black-793
   
  until I can get a modmic at some point.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Heh, what are the odds that this is the inevitable non-limited edition Anniversary-equivalent? No pricing info yet? Either way, at 'least it seems they finally gave up on the headband bumps for good... I kinda like the red/black color scheme, looks like more of an orange-y/bronze highlight actually.


 
   
  Weird... tried to go to the Annies page on AKG's site and it seems to be gone.  I was hoping to find if perhaps there was something unique to the Annies limited edition nature aside from the color scheme differences.  Google has the page cached though (along with broken image links), but nothing jumped out at me...


----------



## Impulse

Either mic should work, the second one has almost no description whatsoever so I'd just read the reviews for both and go from there... That kinda cheap clip-on can be kinda hit or miss, the manufacturer may replace the capsule at any time and drastically change how it works etc. It kinda ties back into the QC issues Antlion has had w/their Modmic parts suppliers and why they've had such a tough time keeping a stable stock of them.
   
  It looks like they'll have some 2.0's in stock within a week or two but after that it seems they're moving on to yet another revision w/another manufactuer (4.0?) to hopefully (finally) get a reliable stream of units they can stock and sell. I feel for them but at 'least they've communicated their issues well and put QC first instead of rushing stuff and selling potentially faulty units. I really want a muting version, hopefully the 4.0 works out for 'em!
   
  At this pace I'm gonna have to take out insurance on my 1.0, it's almost an endangered species...


----------



## Impulse

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Weird... tried to go to the Annies page on AKG's site and it seems to be gone.  I was hoping to find if perhaps there was something unique to the Annies limited edition nature aside from the color scheme differences.  Google has the page cached though (along with broken image links), but nothing jumped out at me...


 
   
  Well, the Anniversary edition had the flat headband, which the new K712 has, and the only other major change was the pads (which is what made the sound warmer and boosted the low end)... I think they made a point of mentioning the new memory foam pads when they announced the Anniversary edition, as well as pointing out they were hand made in Austria etc (were the K702/Q701 ever assembled elsewhere?) just as they did now for the K712. The K712 page says nothing about pads tho, or price.
   
  Same thing happened to me when I Googled the Anniversary page btw... There's probably some other way to get to it, they might still be listed on the international site. I think the US site doesn't even list the Q701 either but those have definitely not gone anywhere...


----------



## Evshrug

tcgc said:


> I thought of getting a Mixamp just because of Dolby Digital 5.1, will I get the same kinda feeling if I'll try to go E17?
> Certainly, these amplifier are almost like night and day but still I want that immersive feeling of surround sound.




Ah. So, THAT's why he was banned. Kinda funny, but kinda what I'd suspected. Read that first post, but keep in mind that most experienced lovers of audio advise that, with high-powered amps, you always plug in headphones after a sec or two of turning on your amp. So really, he made a big stink about nothing, and plays out the "victimized" role from the safety of his blog. I think of him as having two sides... He does provide some nice measurements and designed a decent amp and DAC; on the other side, he doesn't see that trying to convince others that manufacturers are liars, and Jude is part of some conspiracy cover-up, is a different sort of attack on those people. A smart mind with a touch of paranoia.



3x0 said:


> Seems to just be subtleties and QOL improvements for that absurd difference.
> 
> Harman routinely puts refurbished (full warranty) Q701s at $199 or less buy-it-now on eBay, and I think those are be a steal relatively to the heinous cost of a K702 Annie for what is essentially the same headphone.
> 
> But then again, I'm a man to advocate a used pair of HD 580s over HD 600s any day of the week for similar reasons.



I usually go for the same line of thinking. Maybe you can get a slightly better (some cases just "different") piece of equipment for more money, but I always try to find where the strongest value is at. I think buying an Annie over a Q701 with stock earpads and a $6 headband wrap is more of a stretch than I'd be willing to pay 2x the price for. I love the Q701's, even with stock earpads. So I wouldn't recommend the Annies or something more expensive, but I understand some people will consider my advice and pick something else anyway, and to them I still wish them happiness with their choice.





mad lust envy said:


> In other news, I think I might start branching out, and ATTEMPT to make some youtube videos. Maybe you guys can help spread the word once I actually get it off and running. Might lead to a future for me.




Sweet man, I'd love to help! But honestly, I think you have more influence than me, heh. Best of luck!


----------



## Chubtoad

yeah I want a muteable version really, I would just need something to temporarily use while waiting for stock.
   
  I don't really know the differences between there versions, theres v2.0 and 3.0 and I guess there working on 4.0
   
  would there be another alternative I could look at or any suggestions?


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





impulse said:


> Well, the Anniversary edition had the flat headband, which the new K712 has, and the only other major change was the pads (which is what made the sound warmer and boosted the low end)... *I think they made a point of mentioning the new memory foam pads when they announced the Anniversary edition,* as well as pointing out they were hand made in Austria etc (were the K702/Q701 ever assembled elsewhere?) just as they did now for the K712. The K712 page says nothing about pads tho, or price.
> 
> Same thing happened to me when I Googled the Anniversary page btw... There's probably some other way to get to it, they might still be listed on the international site. I think the US site doesn't even list the Q701 either but those have definitely not gone anywhere...


 
   
  The pads were actually one of the items I was looking to compare and wondering if perhaps the K712's won't use memory foam like the Annies do.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> yeah I want a muteable version really, I would just need something to temporarily use while waiting for stock.
> 
> I don't really know the differences between there versions, theres v2.0 and 3.0 and I guess there working on 4.0
> 
> would there be another alternative I could look at or any suggestions?


 
  I have the latest version of the ModMic and it's pretty fantastic, but they have 2 new variations coming up soon, one with in-line mute switch which I will be acquiring once it's available.


----------



## DocNinja

Sorry for the extremely late reply. School and two jobs stole a couple weeks from me, heh. To answer your first question, I'm more interested in PC and music at the moment. I'm moving to a new place with roommates and I want to make my PC my media center. I plan on having two monitors, a headphone set up, and playing my 360 on my monitors. Eventually I'd like to add some mid-range speakers but I'd prefer headphones for now.
   
  The sound card and desktop amp sounds like the way to go. Any suggestions on a good sound card/amp combo? I'm sure I can budget $300 for those parts alone.
  Here's my build list if it could inflence anything.
   
  http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Akuma/saved/1oPa
   
  Thanks for helping
   
   
  Quote: 





impulse said:


> Like, Evshrug alluded to, it's a matter of priorities... What are you most concerned with: PC gaming, console gaming, or music? Snobbery aside, the E17 isn't any better of a DAC than a decent sound card, better amp possibly (better than most cards, not better than an STX's/Creative Zx's amp tho). You seem to be in a similar situation as Ziharay a couple of dozen posts up...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm willing to bet anything that the K712 = mass production Annie.

A 3db boost in bass over the standard K702 is basically exactly what the Annie did.

The Annie was undoubtedly a limited prototype of the K712, IMHO. Chicolom even stated this was a likely possibility. He mentioned this ages ago.
*
www.razordogaudio.com: "Now thru April 15th, use coupon code RAZORDOG65TH and get these for $375 or $125 off!"
*

THAT is what you guys need to jump at!


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm willing to bet anything that the K712 = mass production Annie.
> 
> A 3db boost in bass over the standard K702 is basically exactly what the Annie did.
> 
> ...


 
  i already did!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm willing to bet anything that the K712 = mass production Annie.
> 
> A 3db boost in bass over the standard K702 is basically exactly what the Annie did.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm already using the standard K702 on my gaming rig, but I figured "what the hell" and bought the Annie with that deal. I'm thinking I may still keep the K702 on my gaming rig and throw the Annie on my home music rig. I'm really hoping I didn't make a bad decision with the imminent release of the K712.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm 99.9% certain that the K712 Pro = K702 Anniversary in a new color, and mass produced. The Annie was a limited test run, and made way for this. Same headband, highly certain to be memory foam pads by the 'additional 3db bass boost' comment on the product description, and AKGs tendency to repaint the same headphone over and over. If they were gonna make a brand new headphone, it would have been done by now.


----------



## Impulse

chubtoad said:


> yeah I want a muteable version really, I would just need something to temporarily use while waiting for stock.
> 
> I don't really know the differences between there versions, theres v2.0 and 3.0 and I guess there working on 4.0
> 
> would there be another alternative I could look at or any suggestions?




2.0 was just their first shift in parts supplier, 3.0 was gonna be a noise canceling mic instead of an omni directional one but apparently they've had the most QC issues with that one... 4.0 is seemingly gonna be another supply chain shift from 2.0/3.0. All that being said, my 1.0 still picks up far less background noise than my Zalman clip on (also omni), I don't know if it's due to the boom mount or just the general sensitivity/quality of the capsule... It also sounds much more natural than the Zalman (to the person listening to me).

The Zalman isn't terrible tho, if you just want a cheap clip on with a looong cord to tide you over it's a viable and easily available option (if Amazon's still stocking them). It's pretty hit or miss too tho, some people's Zalman clip on performs very different from other's. YMMV, the Modmics were more consistent but I guess that's part of why they've struggled with 
QC... Who would've thought cheap mics were as hard to get right as headphones? 




docninja said:


> Sorry for the extremely late reply. School and two jobs stole a couple weeks from me, heh. To answer your first question, I'm more interested in PC and music at the moment. I'm moving to a new place with roommates and I want to make my PC my media center. I plan on having two monitors, a headphone set up, and playing my 360 on my monitors. Eventually I'd like to add some mid-range speakers but I'd prefer headphones for now.
> 
> The sound card and desktop amp sounds like the way to go. Any suggestions on a good sound card/amp combo? I'm sure I can budget $300 for those parts alone.
> Here's my build list if it could inflence anything.
> ...




I alluded to the two most recommended budget desk amps in the previous post, Fiio E09k and Schiit Magni. You could also look at the O2 by JDS Labs, Schiit Asgard 2, or Lake People G103S (last two are around $250 instead of $100-150). Magni's probably the best one for the price and the easiest to pair with a variety of headphones (whether low or high impedance), E09 has pre amp and line outputs, O2's pricier and has all the jacks on the front which is kinda meh...

As for a sound card, ASUS Xonar DGX for like $50 or Creative Titanium HD if you can get it for $100-ish... The Xonar does Dolby Headphone just like your DSS so if you're already used to that it may be the safe choice, Creative's card uses CMSS-3D which is comparable. The Xonar has a half decent headphone amp on board that you won't use, the Creative card is probably a little cleaner sounding. ASUS has a Ti HD competitor but it's usually closer to $175 and not worth the extra expense unless you intend to use it's amp (it's pretty good) and forsake the desk amp. What headphones are you pairing this with?

From what I've read, the new headphone surround virtualization on Creative's newer Z series isn't quite at the level of DH or CMSS-3D... If you intend to dig out some older PC games, CMSS-3D can actually be the superior choice, but for the vast majority of modem games it's gonna work roughly the same as DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Btw, I only recommend those amps because of their price.

This is a thread with gamers in mind first. And this thread pulls in a lot of newcomers not looking to break their bank by attaching a $250+ amp to help aid the Mixamp for gaming use.

I could put up $250+ amps on the guide, but it seems silly. I'm sure those who have delved in this hobby long enough have their own, more expensive amps which they use in place of what I recommend here. Like me using the Lyr and Compass 2 in place of the entry desktop amps.

I'm sure once you guys are serious about your setups, you can go through the forums and search for better desktop amps... like the ever popular Asgard 2, Matrix M-stage, Audio-GD offerings, etc...


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Btw, I only recommend those amps because of their price.
> 
> This is a thread with gamers in mind first. And this thread pulls in a lot of newcomers not looking to break their bank by attaching a $250+ amp to help aid the Mixamp for gaming use.
> 
> ...


 
  I haven't actually ordered the Magni yet, but should I be considering something more powerful such as the Asgard 2? obviously the $99 dollar price tag is nice on the Magni compared to the $250 Asgard 2, but I'm looking to kind of order without having to order anything again for a long while. Obviously this is my first real audio setup so I have nothing to really compare it to, I'm sure I'll be blown away from either setup realistically.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you can spring for the Asgard 2, I'd say go for it. That will satiate the need to upgrade, and looks like a real piece of equipment. The Magni is TINY in comparison. Not that it matters, but if I were in your shoes, I'd definitely get the Asgard 2. In fact, if I knew I wasn't getting planars which can take a bit more than the Asgard 2 gives, I'd get the Asgard 2 myself. For dynamic headphones, it should have more than enough power for everything, and still do well with planars like the HE-400, 500, LCD2 which don't require a ton of power (though can definitely take much more.


----------



## Chubtoad

Yeah I'm pretty sure I can spring for the Asgard 2, do the amps come with any cables or will I need to grab an RCA cable from somewhere else? I'm looking at the website right now and it shows a 115V or 230V version, which one should I be looking at?
   
   
  Oh yeah my Annies shipped out this morning


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you live in an NTSC area like USA or Japan, I'm sure you'd get the default, which I'm sure is the 115v.

I'm not sure if the Asgard 2 comes with cables, but It's always wise to have some spares. I'd get some from Amazon, like some Mediabridge ones. Assuming you're using a Mixamp, you'll want a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Also, not sure if you already own it, but the Mixamp comes with those cables and then some.


----------



## Chubtoad

I live in Canada, about an hour outside of Vancouver, I was just looking at my circuit breakers and it says Amp - 100 max, volt AC - 120/240
   
  I'll be ordering the mixamp at the same time so thats good if it will come with everything


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it should.

Man, you have one hell of a setup as your first! Are you planning on getting a DAC for non-gaming use? 

But seriously, Annie + Asgard 2 + a decent dac like an ODAC/Bifrost is endgame level worthy for me.


----------



## Chubtoad

I will probably get a non gaming DAC at some point yeah, haven't really looked much into that yet, but for the sake of keeping aesthetics the same It would probably be the Bifrost because I like keeping everything matching 
   
  Thanks for all your help by the way I really appreciate it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's how I feel, lol. I'd wanna get the Bifrost, but probably used. I feel it's too expensive. Should've been priced the same as the Asgard... I mean, if they're gonna match, make it the same price! Though I guess the Valhalla and Lyr share the same body too.


----------



## Chubtoad

Yeah, $449 for the USB version damn lol. Something like that will have to wait for a bit.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I'm already using the standard K702 on my gaming rig, but I figured "what the hell" and bought the Annie with that deal. I'm thinking I may still keep the K702 on my gaming rig and throw the Annie on my home music rig. I'm really hoping I didn't make a bad decision with the imminent release of the K712.


 
   
  I would just keep the Anniversaries and sell the normal K702s then get some non-memory foam pads for $20-30


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would just keep the Anniversaries and sell the normal K702s then get some non-memory foam pads for $20-30


 
   
  I was thinking about that. What does come first and foremost between the two will be the detail whoring and positional audio. I don't want to compromise competitive gaming. Two options...

 If the standard K702 works better for that, it will keep it on the gaming rig and the Annie will move full time over to my home music rig.
 If the Annie is more detailed with better positional audio, it goes on the gaming rig and I'll sell the K702.
   
  I'm hoping option two is the case because I have my heart set on an HE-500 for my home audio rig.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I was thinking about that. What does come first and foremost between the two will be the detail whoring and positional audio. I don't want to compromise competitive gaming. Two options...
> 
> If the standard K702 works better for that, it will keep it on the gaming rig and the Annie will move full time over to my home music rig.
> If the Annie is more detailed with better positional audio, it goes on the gaming rig and I'll sell the K702.
> ...


 
   
   
  I was saying don't keep both because it's silly to own two pairs of the same headphone (apart from the pads) just so you can hook one up to one system and one up to another.  Just by a pair of regular foam pads and you will get to keep both sounds, and you can just move the headphone and change out the pads and you'll save yourself $200 (by selling the regular K702).
   
  If you own _both pads_, its the same as owning_ both headphones_.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The regular foam pads are lighter and airier so they will hold some advantage for pure competitive gaming.  I've said this before a couple times.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I was saying don't keep both because it's silly to own two pairs of the same headphone (apart from the pads) just so you can hook one up to one system and one up to another.  Just by a pair of regular foam pads and you will get to keep both sounds, and you can just move the headphone and change out the pads and you'll save yourself $200 (by selling the regular K702).
> 
> If you own _both pads_, its the same as owning_ both headphones_.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Totally makes sense. I suppose I want cans dedicated to stations because I'm just silly like that. All this does is support option 2 even more so now. HE-500, here I come. Thanks for being my enabler.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> HE-500, here I come. Thanks for being my enabler.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I was thinking about that. What does come first and foremost between the two will be the detail whoring and positional audio. I don't want to compromise competitive gaming. Two options...
> 
> If the standard K702 works better for that, it will keep it on the gaming rig and the Annie will move full time over to my home music rig.
> If the Annie is more detailed with better positional audio, it goes on the gaming rig and I'll sell the K702.
> ...


 
  Though more expensive, option two sounds like the best move


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The regular foam pads are lighter and airier so they will hold some advantage for pure competitive gaming.  I've said this before a couple times.


 
   
   
  Is there really a noticeable difference for competitive gaming and detail whoring between the pads?
   
   



bombaman said:


> Hey i guys i wanted to ask a couple of things which really bugged me.
> 
> I used to have a STX+ MMX 300
> Now i have a Dt 880 (600ohm) + E9k+E17
> ...


 

   
   
  I have the same MMX 300 + Asus Xonar DX, very curious about how Dt 880 (600ohm) sounds in games and overall compering to MMX 300? Also plan to buy and try AKG Annies  + maybe lets say Matrix M-Stage(not sure  what is the best combination  





  )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not really. Positional cues are the same on both. However the standard pads are thinner sounding, and bass isn't as full, so it's easier to focus on the mids and treble (most important sounds). Think of It like my comparison of the AD700 vs K701. The AD700 is even thinner sounding and bass shy, 2hich is what makes it so easy to focus on detail.

If you want to strictly sound whore, just get the AD700.


----------



## HopeSilent

Hello again Head-Fi,

Well, it's official, the Ultrasone's hurt my ears and head. My elephant ears stick out enough to press on the drivers. They didn't originally but as the velour pads adjusted to my head I noticed more and more discomfort. They end up being quite uncomfortable and I practice an exercise in futility continuously adjusting them. The small top cushion digs into my conehead(I'm learning so many things about myself!) as well, a common issue with multiple mod possibilities(hd650 cushion). 

As to the sound, these are the most expensive headphones I've ever bought, so I will preface you in letting you understand my limited experience with "hifi" headgear. That said, the bass is strong and tight as most often described, the treble doesn't seem so piercing or shrieky like many have said(is this sibilance? Or is that only related to metallic sounds?). The mids are, in my experience, slightly recessed, but the level of clarity/separation is so much better than anything I've owned that I think it's just not as noticeable to me. Isolation is excellent from incoming noise, never really tested outgoing, kind've assumed mutual performance. Little heat generated but it is there. All that aside, build quality is unquestionably durable and the included components and case are great. 

So... Now what do I do? I'm really disappointed because I really wanted to like them and I've tried to ignore the pain but it's just clearly not going to work for my intended uses and long listening sessions. I guess I'll have to resell them and take a loss...

The Astro 5.8 Mixamp has been interesting. The hiss that has been discussed is present but to me seems nearly irrelevant unless you use your headphones a lot for listening to nothing, sarcasm intended. Dolby headphone is quite an odd sensation. At times somewhat lacking presence, not to necessarily suggest that it isn't effective but more so subtle. I would say it's not entirely what I expected but it's also not a disappointment or anything. The best way I can characterize it in a statement is... "I am trying to learn how to use dolby headphone to my advantage." Battlefield 3 is all I really play anymore and as has been discussed before, the environment isn't always so helpful to positional cues. For movies, the verdict isn't yet out, I'm still looking for some of the better 5.1 movies to really test it with. As of now I've only listened to The Dark Knight without the screen on to see how it felt in regards to positioning. Subtle, but present, as I earlier described.

To try and match how you guys tend to do your reviews I'll state my particular details. 

Music:
Source - Pandora App 
DAC - AT&T Galaxy S II
(double whammy in the quality department from what I read here...)
Artists - Everything, from Regina Spektor to Dream Theater to Rush and Chevelle, hip hop, etc.

Movies:

Source - Optical Blu-Ray
Player - PS3 to 5.8 Mixamp
Films - The Dark Knight

Video games:

Source - Optical Blu-Ray
System - PS3 Console
Games - Battlefield 3

As always, thank you for any help and I hope that what I've written here can help someone else as this thread and the multitude of informative authors in it have helped me.

-Ryan


----------



## Impulse

Avatar's audio track is pretty well done and has some interesting surround effects, worth a try regardless of what you think of the movie.  Black Hawk Down always stuck out to me too... I haven't listened a lot to movies with Dolby Headphone tho, since I don't watch a lot of movies on the desktop and my receiver lacks DH.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> Is there really a noticeable difference for competitive gaming and detail whoring between the pads?


 
   
   
  Check out this post:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-4-4-13-mad-dog-added/12345#post_9264700
   
_"There's something about lighter airier sounds that gives the effect of making sounds sound farther away then weightier sounds.  But like I said, once you adjust for that "effect", the sounds are still basically coming from the same location/distance in the soundstage.  So the Q701s competitive advantage mainly just comes down to the lighter overall balance (think AD700) which emphasizes and makes things a bit clearer."_


----------



## lunemi

I am going to buy a new sound setup to my pc. For headphones I think I'm gonna go with ad700 but I have a hard time picking a good soundcard. I'm thinking of creative soundblaster z or the titanium hd right now. Any suggestions are much appreciated! I play fps games like counterstrike source. All I want is really just to be able to "sound whore" which is the reason why I picked the ad700


----------



## elouthan

I have a question about my mixamp setup on my Xbox. I bought the mixamp only (no cables included) off of eBay and its the 2011 version with the battery pack and flat dials. I have a pair takstar hi2050s hooked up to a PC mic spilter and just got an antlion mic. When I connect the mic I hear myself very loudly with static/ feedback and hardly anything goes to the Xbox ( I did some sample voice messages and played them back and it was very faint). Any suggestions on what may be wrong? Could it be the mic or the splitter ( I bought the splitter from astro and it was for the A40 I believe)?


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> Not really. Positional cues are the same on both. However the standard pads are thinner sounding, and bass isn't as full, so it's easier to focus on the mids and treble (most important sounds). Think of It like my comparison of the AD700 vs K701. The AD700 is even thinner sounding and bass shy, 2hich is what makes it so easy to focus on detail.
> 
> If you want to strictly sound whore, just get the AD700.




I would totally agree with you if I didn't already own that too and absolutely hate the comfort and fit of it. I've quite enjoyed my K702 and haven't noticed much, if any, compromise with competitive gaming. I'm sure the Annie will do quite nicely as well.


----------



## Ljanmi

OK, I can get Annies and get the same sound if just EQ lows, I dont need to change the pads if I want less bass? Is Annies sound definitely superior compering to Q701(I know it is the same thing just with slightly better lows), what I want to say is that the advantage all in all? I never heard any AKG, so I guess if I buy Annies it should give me the best AKG experience 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 , I mean if I don't like Annies I probably want like any AKG which I doubt 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 What should be the best combination for amp in that scenario?
   
  One noob question, if the amp is very powerfull and I have low ohm cans lets say MMX 300 and I connect them to Matrix M-Stage or Fiio E9 is there a possibility to burn the drivers? 
   
  @chicolom
   
  I read your posts and I get the picture, both sounds have advantages and disadvantages, so what would you recommend in my case? 
   
   
  PS I'm totally confused right now in way that I want Annies or I want Q701?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





hopesilent said:


> Hello again Head-Fi,
> 
> Well, it's official, the Ultrasone's hurt my ears and head. My elephant ears stick out enough to press on the drivers. They didn't originally but as the velour pads adjusted to my head I noticed more and more discomfort. They end up being quite uncomfortable and I practice an exercise in futility continuously adjusting them. The small top cushion digs into my conehead(I'm learning so many things about myself!) as well, a common issue with multiple mod possibilities(hd650 cushion).
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I had the same issues with the Pro 2900 with the velour hurting a piece of my left outer ear. The small headband cushion that would "press" onto my head after some time was even worse. Hopefully the new models will abandon that built/comfort level, just like Ultrasone is abandoning Titanium. 
   
Signature Series and Editions are much more comfortable.


----------



## PanamaHat

Which headphone would be more enjoyable for music listening, the hd600 or dt990? Currently looking at both just not sure which to go with. I like the idea of a relaxed sound with sweet mids, but also want thumping bass for an engaging sound. Soundstage depth and imaging is also very important to me

(Mind you I already have a strong enough amp for either one)


----------



## Bombaman

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> Is there really a noticeable difference for competitive gaming and detail whoring between the pads?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 As requested, i share some of my thoughts with you.
   
  Well i am not sure what i should say^^
   
  Comfort wise i would say the Dt 880 maybe a little more comfortable. ( not sure)
  Sound: The Dt 880s Bass is like Zombie_x said nothing for Bassheads. Though i think its very clean. You kind of get used to the bass level after some time.
  To sum it up the Dt 880 sounded clearer in pretty much every way possible.
   
  As for Dolby Headphone. Like i said i disorts the Sound makes it inferior. Now if you play FPS you might want to give it a try though. I only play in Stereo.
  Soundstage wise:  I am still confused of tthe Term Soundstage.  I found the Dt 880s to be very small but you could still hear in which direction the Sound was coming.
  As for the Q701 which i use right now, they are supposed to have a huuuge Soundstage even more than the T1. However i can not confirm this. I find it it to be a little further away than the dt 880 but thats it.
   
   
  ps: did you take a look in Zombie_x  Beyerdynamic Headphone comparison?
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more
   
  got any Questions? Than ask again^^
   
  ps. sorry if it is kind of written confusing.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> OK, I can get Annies and get the same sound if just EQ lows, I dont need to change the pads if I want less bass? Is Annies sound definitely superior compering to Q701(I know it is the same thing just with slightly better lows), what I want to say is that the advantage all in all? I never heard any AKG, so I guess if I buy Annies it should give me the best AKG experience
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The anniversaries are NOT Q701s but with slightly more bass.  They _entire signature_ is warmer.  Bass, mids, treble.  The whole spectrum is darker and heavier, so you can't just EQ on to sound like the other.  The pads affect the sound in a way that you can't get with EQ.
   
  If you haven't already, you can read my lengthier comparison here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/655082/akg-q701-vs-akg-k702-65th-anniversary-comparison-review
  Maybe that will give you a better idea of how they sound, and which YOU would prefer.  I don't really think one is necessarily superior than the other and I like them both, and I do change the pads depending on what I'm listening to (genre) or what I am in the mood for sound signature wise. 
   
  My advice is still: if you think you like both sounds, get both pads. 
   
   
  FYI AKG has announced the K712 pro, which appears to be identical to the Anniversaries but with different color scheme.  They probably won't be about for several months though and will be more expensive when they come out until the price drops some.
   
  I've used both the M-stage and E9 and haven't caused any damage to headphones.  Just be smart and don't blast anything at max volume.  I only use the lower gain settings on them, as anything else puts the volume knob at only 10 o'clock which is a little low.
   
   
  Quote: 





panamahat said:


> Which headphone would be more enjoyable for music listening, the hd600 or dt990? Currently looking at both just not sure which to go with.* I like the idea of a relaxed sound with sweet mids*, but also want thumping bass for an engaging sound. Soundstage depth and imaging is also very important to me


 
   
  Based on the bolded text, I would probably stay away from the DT990 (it's the opposite of relaxed with sweet mids).


----------



## BigEarsMan

Need some advice. I've been really interested in this guide and its convinced me to upgrade my set up. I do most of my gaming on console, its usually single player or co-op games with the occasional online fps. So I am looking for more or less a "Fun" headphones that can still do well for an fps. My current set up is my PS3 and AX720 headset. I am planning on keeping the old AX720   decoder and buying an amp like the magni to pair with it. When it comes to music and sound in general I am definitely no basshead. But for those epic single player games and movies I want that ambience like being in a theatre. So after reading through this guide I am stuck deciding between the DT880 and DT990 (leaning more toward the DT880). I have no way of demoing these in my country and I keep reading bright - harsh treble which is worrying. So my question is, how strong is that treble really and how much improvement can I expect over my current AX720 with either of these headphones?  Those k702 anv also seem ideal but they are a too far out of my price range. Maybe wait for for the K712? 
   
   
Any other recommendations are welcome. 
   
If it means anything I do enjoy music on my lowly HD448 but I never use that for gaming.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





vader2k said:


> Help!
> 
> Now that I have the Marantz with DH, I'm trying to reconfigure things and see about doing away with the Mixamp.  I've extended the Annies cable length so I can comfortably reach the receiver from my couch.  But I'm having some problems getting my LVA 7330 mic working directly with the wireless xbox controller.
> 
> I had grabbed this 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter from monoprice, but when I hook the mic into the controller and try to record voice, nothing comes across.  If I'm not trying to get voice sound out of the controller to a headphone, but rather only trying to get voice into the controller from the mic, shouldn't this work?


 
   
  I'm unfamiliar with the LVA-7330 mic but is the plug on it a stereo plug (2 lines/3poles) or a mono plug(1 line/2poles)? If it's a stereo plug then you need to add in a mono-to-stereo adapter to your cable chain in order for the xbox controller to be able to pick up your mic. Or you can try and find a mono 2.5mm to 3.5mm extension cable which would do the same thing. Standalone mics will only function on the xbox controller if the plug is mono.


----------



## Ljanmi

@chicolom
   
I read everything you wrote about Q701/Annies before posting. I understand what you want to say about pads way of altering sound, just trying to figure out what is the best choice for me going from MMX 300 without listening test since it is impossible for me in Serbia to listen before I buy(I have to order it and pay and then I can listen to them 



 ).
   
   
Anyway, I found second hand Fiio E9 but power supply seems like it's a model for US market 110W and there's a power converter on it to 220W at least it looks that way. Is there a model for Europe? Anybody have any ideas to confirm this?


----------



## Don Tonberry

I got my DSS and Steelseries mixer in the mail and they do both work together.  However, when using both the audio quality degrades a bit compared to when I plug directly into the DSS.  It seems to lose highs and mids.  Is there anyway I can hook this up so that I don't lose as much quality? Or find an alternative way to get voice chat mixing with my DSS?


----------



## zx6guy

[size=medium]Have you guys seen this HD595/PC360/Mixamp/DSS comparison?  [/size]
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIuX7hKfSsg
   
  [size=medium]It’s not the most scientific but the results especially those on the DSS are interesting.  [/size]


----------



## Impulse

Only got about two thirds of the way thru before I got tired of hearing the guy drone on while pulling stuff out of his... Seriously, guessing where in the frequency spectrum he's pointing at couldn't be any more ambiguous. Without some more detail about his methodology I don't think you can draw any conclusion whatsoever from those four random graphs. There's a different level of disparity between his 595 w/DSS plot vs 595 w/MA and his 360 w/DSS vs 360 w/MA plot... 

Doesn't look like his results are very consistent, which could be due to any number of things (ambient noise, mic placement and isolation, etc.), the 595 w/DSS looked the cleanest and it probably has more to do with his methodology than with the headphone or mixer. About the only thing I could mayyybe guess from all that is that the DSS may be exaggerating the highs (or it has weak bass response), but it was an overall trend thru his tests so again (just slightly more evident on the DSS)...

The 360 should sound pretty close to the 595, they used the same driver... And the 595's discontinued anyway. In a very very general sense his tests show that, but he's over analyzing a test that isn't very precise. The 598 are better and usually cheaper (than the 360) even if you get a separate mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That vid made my head hurt.


----------



## Change is Good

People need to try the virtual haircut video on youtube if they haven't, yet. They have a link on the Q701 thread...
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/2835


----------



## HopeSilent

change is good said:


> People need to try the virtual haircut video on youtube if they haven't, yet. They have a link on the Q701 thread...
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/2835




The Cetera algorithm is awesome! I show that video to all of my family and friends. Anyone have any recommendations for my previously mentioned problem?

Thank you for any help,
Ryan


----------



## roguegeek

zx6guy said:


> Have you guys seen this HD595/PC360/Mixamp/DSS comparison?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIuX7hKfSsg
> 
> It’s not the most scientific but the results especially those on the DSS are interesting.




I'm not even kidding, I nodded off and hit my head on my iPad.


----------



## BizareLogics

I recently took my Astro a50's back to the shops.
   
  I've got a 2013 Mixamp Pro coming (Astro) and i'm looking for a good headset to combine with it.
   
  I've been running Turtle Beach X41's for 3 years now. Not happy with Astro's. . I'm hoping the Mixamp Pro 2013 will be alright to use, or do you recommend something else.
   
  My games of choice are FPS, MMO's, On PC and also Xbox 360. My soundcard is a Creative *PCI Express X-Fi Titanium.*
   
  These are the headsets I have been looking at. I know the price range is up and down on most but please elaborate if the extra $ is worth it. Preferred price tag for me is 300-400.
   
   
 [size=medium] Sennheiser PC 360 Headset[/size]
   
Beyer Dynamic DT 990 Premium 600 OHM Headphones
   
   
 [size=medium] AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition[/size]
   
   
 [size=medium] Sennheiser HD 598 Headphones[/size]
   
   
 [size=medium] AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Signature Reference-Class Premium Headphones[/size]
   
   
 [size=medium] AKG K 701 Headphones[/size]
   
   
 [size=1.7em] Audio Technica ATH-AD700 Open-air Dynamic Audiophile Headphones[/size]
   
HiFiMAN HE-400 Planar Driver High Efficiency Headphones


----------



## Currawong

Awesome review collection. I was about to post a thread about the Xbox 360 and whether I should bother to upgrade from my Halo Edition. I may have to if I want to use optical out at the same time as HDMI if I was to consider a Dolby adaptor. Better audio imaging is on my list of things I want.


----------



## lunemi

I've bought the ad700, but I don't know which sound card to pair it with. I play mostly fps games so I want to be able to soundwhore(hear footsteps) with great positional accuracy. (I have Windows 8, if it matters )


----------



## roguegeek

lunemi said:


> I've bought the ad700, but I don't know which sound card to pair it with. I play mostly fps games so I want to be able to soundwhore(hear footsteps) with great positional accuracy. (I have Windows 8, if it matters )




My short recommendation is the X-Fi Titanum HD as there is no better sound card for gaming with headphones, but you should be checking out Nameless' fantastic guide to pc gaming audio. That thread focuses way more on the topic of your question. Your question is also extremely common, so make sure you've read that thread because it answers this quite specifically.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound


----------



## lunemi

Just one last question!  Is it worth spending the extra money to buy the X-Fi Titanium HD instead of sound blaster z? Is there that much of a difference?


----------



## roguegeek

lunemi said:


> Just one last question!  Is it worth spending the extra money to buy the X-Fi Titanium HD instead of sound blaster z? Is there that much of a difference?




The very short answer is yes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

currawong said:


> Awesome review collection. I was about to post a thread about the Xbox 360 and whether I should bother to upgrade from my Halo Edition. I may have to if I want to use optical out at the same time as HDMI if I was to consider a Dolby adaptor. Better audio imaging is on my list of things I want.




Currawong really IS watching! Lol. 

Curra, really a Dolby Headphone adapter is easily the most important thing in the chain for me.

If I had to make a choice between playing a game with the HD800 with the best stereo amp/dac in the world, or a simple KSC75 with a Dolby Headphone device, I'd choose the KCS75 everytime. That's how important virtual surround is to me. No joke. Once you get used to the fact that it's not about pure fidelity but immersion and virtual surround positioning, and adjust to the SQ change, you'll find that playing in stereo is like putting on blinders. Of course HD800 with Dolby Headphone would probably destroy the world with it's overwhelming awesomeness. 


I dunno about you, but I'd look into older receivers that have Dolby Headphone. Like triple digit Harmin Kardon or Marantz receivers. They have very little to mo audible noise floors. If you want compact, a 2nd gen Mixamp is pretty quiet. Otherwise, the other devices are fine but do have audible hiss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just noticed I became a Contributor. Currawong had a hand I bet, lol. 

Btw guys, expect two new reviews soon-ish, one being a headset, the other one a considerably more expensive uhh...combo. Also expecting an up to date Mad Dog, which may or may not cause me to edit/update the review.




bizarelogics said:


> I recently took my Astro a50's back to the shops.
> 
> I've got a 2013 Mixamp Pro coming (Astro) and i'm looking for a good headset to combine with it.
> 
> ...




For a nice blend of balance and fun, the K702 65th Anniversary is my top recommendation, above all else.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Curra, really a Dolby Headphone adapter is easily the most important thing in the chain for me.
> 
> If I had to make a choice between playing a game with the HD800 with the best stereo amp in the world, or a simple KSC75 with a Dolby Headphone device, I'd choose the KCS75 everytime. That's how important virtual surround is to me. No joke. Once you get used to the fact that it's not about pure fidelity but immersion and virtual surround positioning, and adjust to the SQ change, you'll find that playing in stereo is like putting on blinders.


 
  I can only  second that. Dolby Headphone is so important for gaming and movies! You can hear your enemies before they knife you! And you can watch a movie like Lord of the Rings or Matrix on a 17 inch HD laptop sceen with out ever noticing the monitors small size. This kind of sound enlarges the whole experience so much.... It happened to me last year in a hotel room. The web was dead, so no online FPS possible. Put the blue ray of Matrix into my Asus gaming Laptop to just try out the experience. Found myself breathless and a little cold in front of the screen two hours later.... I grant you only using Stereo sound cannot create this. BTW the headphone was the HD 650. And DH came from using the XONAR USB.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





currawong said:


> Awesome review collection. I was about to post a thread about the Xbox 360 and whether I should bother to upgrade from my Halo Edition. I may have to if I want to use optical out at the same time as HDMI if I was to consider a Dolby adaptor. Better audio imaging is on my list of things I want.


 
   
  Shouldn't need to upgrade your Xbox 360 just to get optical out. If the Halo edition is like my current Xbox, you can use one of the many adapters like these to get HDMI to one source and optical to the DSP. This one is third party, but I have the official microsoft one myself.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Optical-Audio-Adapter-Xbox-360-Cable/dp/B0042UQLM0


----------



## kellte2

Get the adapter from Monoprice. Many other, non-official adapters will reset the system when you change inputs. Neither the official nor the Monoprice adapters will do the resetting behavior as described above.


----------



## kellte2

Double post. Thanks mobile head fi.


----------



## kittyinabottle

I've been doing a ton of research and I've finally narrowed it down to two pairs of headphones. The AKG Q701 and the Beyerdynamic  DT990 Pro. Before, I thought I was going to buy the AD700, but my brother talked me in to raising my price range to about $200, so these are what I've found. The main use for the headphones will be gaming, but I will occasionally do some audio editing in Adobe Audition as well. Your opinions would help a lot. Thanks.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Of course HD800 with Dolby Headphone would probably destroy the world with it's overwhelming awesomeness.


 
   
  That made me giggle.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kittyinabottle said:


> I've been doing a ton of research and I've finally narrowed it down to two pairs of headphones. The AKG Q701 and the Beyerdynamic  DT990 Pro. Before, I thought I was going to buy the AD700, but my brother talked me in to raising my price range to about $200, so these are what I've found. The main use for the headphones will be gaming, but I will occasionally do some audio editing in Adobe Audition as well. Your opinions would help a lot. Thanks.


 
   
  Q701 for you and your general purpose, but the AD700 is about the best you can grab if you're talking competitive gaming only. Even better than the Q701 or DT990, so tell your brother to piss off! Ok, don't do that.


----------



## Change is Good

Yo Mad,
   
  I inquired about changing the headband with AKG, and it seems that if they do the switch for you it will not void the warranty (it will if owner does so themselves). You order the headband from Frank in parts, then send it along with your cans to Richard in repairs. You end up paying for the headband and labor.
   
  It makes more sense to just buy the Annies, like you mention. But I thought I'd throw this in for the people who already own the x70xs with the bumps... and are looking for a more elegant headband mod if they can't do it, themselves, and don't want to void the warranty (if still valid).
   
  I don't know if this is worthy to add as an update on your thread, but I wanted x70x owners to be aware of their options. I personally am going with this option once the new K612 headband becomes available


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Did you specify about chanhing the STANDARD K702 to Flat headband? That doesn't sound like what they'd do. I'm almost sure they're referring to swapping out the headband to the same headband if for some reason it's defective.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Did you specify about chanhing the STANDARD K702 to Flat headband? That doesn't sound like what they'd do. I'm almost sure they're referring to swapping out the headband to the same headband if for some reason it's defective.


 
  Yes I specified changing to a completely different headband... k612 to be exact.


----------



## Change is Good

If it was defective... they would switch it to the original under warranty. But as a mod, you pay for labor and warranty is till valid.
   
  Edit: I explained it better in the Q701 thread... sorry


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Youd have to ship it to them. Its legit for Q701 owners for sure. But if buying new, may as well get the Annie.


----------



## kittyinabottle

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Q701 for you and your general purpose, but the AD700 is about the best you can grab if you're talking competitive gaming only. Even better than the Q701 or DT990, so tell your brother to piss off! Ok, don't do that.


 
  Haha. Well, the only turn off with the AD700 was that I heard its bass is lacking and I want to be immersed into my noncompetitive games, though I do play a lot of competitive shooters.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Youd have to ship it to them. Its legit for Q701 owners for sure. But if buying new, may as well get the Annie.


 
   
  Trust me I would have purchased the Annies from the get go... but I already own the black Qs. I purchased the Annie pads when I first saw your update, along with a black K702 cord (needed an extra 3m cord). After I do the headband switch... it will all add up to the going Annie price (around $400).
   
  But to me... mine will look unique, IMHO, so I will be happy in the end


----------



## BassMan X

How are the Annies compared to the HD 650 in terms of Bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Comparable FWIR. In fact, I think the Annie has more sub bass, but the HD650 has slightly more mid bass. In the end I think the Annis has a fuller sound in the bass.


----------



## BassMan X

Sweet!  I think I am sold on the Annies.  Good soundstage, positioning, and balanced sound with good bass.  Sound like a winner to me.
   
  BTW, thanks for making this great guide. I find it very helpful.  Your time and effort is much appreciated. 
   
  Also, I am going to using the Annies with a Creative ZxR soundcard.  Do you feel this will be sufficient or should I invest in something like the Magni?


----------



## Evshrug

Congrats on the contributor tag, Mad! Seems like, now that it's happened, you could've just as easily earned the label 5 headphones ago, but your continued reviewing and exploration of course solidifies the tag. Hey, how are things coming with the YouTube channel?

BassMan X,
The Creative ZxR is a great DAC, and I think it has an amp (about the power of a FiiO E9 desktop amp) capable of giving the AKG a good run. At least to start with... you may in the future collect more gear, but the ZxR has an upgraded amp compared to older models.


----------



## roguegeek

bassman x said:


> Sweet!  I think I am sold on the Annies.  Good soundstage, positioning, and balanced sound with good bass.  Sound like a winner to me.
> 
> BTW, thanks for making this great guide. I find it very helpful.  Your time and effort is much appreciated.
> 
> Also, I am going to using the Annies with a Creative ZxR soundcard.  Do you feel this will be sufficient or should I invest in something like the Magni?




You will need an amp to make those Annies come alive.


----------



## BassMan X

Yeah, there is concern over the actual power output of Headphone amp on the ZxR.  It is rated for 80mW @ 600 ohms and it has been tested to only be putting out 48mW.  So, I dunno what the power rating is at the 62 ohms of the Annies.  I know that the Annies have a max power of 200mW.  I just ordered the Annies for $375 at RazorDog.  I will test them out with the ZxR amp, and I will buy a Magni if I am not satisfied.
   
  I was looking at the DT 880/990, K 702 Annies, and the the HD 650.  I ultimately picked the Annies because they seem to be the best for gaming and have bass comparable to the HD 650, which I like.


----------



## kittyinabottle

I'm really leaning towards the DT990 pro. From what I've read it seems to have everything I'm looking for and it's right at my price range, but I've heard that it needs an amp to reach its full potential. I'm not really interested in purchasing one because they seem a little expensive. Do you think, without an amp, I could still enjoy my pc gaming? Thanks.


----------



## kenshinhimura

kittyinabottle said:


> I'm really leaning towards the DT990 pro. From what I've read it seems to have everything I'm looking for and it's right at my price range, but I've heard that it needs an amp to reach its full potential. I'm not really interested in purchasing one because they seem a little expensive. Do you think, without an amp, I could still enjoy my pc gaming? Thanks.




what about the Magni amp for $100?


----------



## kittyinabottle

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> what about the Magni amp for $100?


 
  I really don't want to pay any more than $200 for headphones + amp and the DT990s are already $200. Are these headphones something I could use without an amp or is it needed?


----------



## kenshinhimura

most likely won't be too loud and not at full potential


----------



## kittyinabottle

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> most likely won't be too loud and not at full potential


 
  Hmmmm. You know what, I think I'll just go ahead and purchase the DT990s and eventually upgrade to an amp when I feel like I have the money to spend on one. Does this sound like a pretty reasonable idea or will I be disappointed?


----------



## jonathan1107

I just received my Astro a50 system.
   
  There is an issue with my mic causing a buzzing sound in my right earcup... I read ALL over the forums. Tried all the troubleshooting suggested, nothing works.

 Funny things is: EVERYONE that owns this headset has this buzzing problem. I tried upgrading the firmware, but it was already up to date... tried re-syncing, tried lowering mic volume in skype... tried other Chat programs, tried different connections, ports, moving the AMP everywhere around the office... nothing seems to fix it...
   
  Would like you guys to give me some wisdom here. Here's the thing, I can return this headset system and buy another one if I like. Is there a Headset with mic system out there that performs well multi-platform without any NOISE in the ear-cups? (cause my mic or crappy hardware)
   
  Cause I'm not into buying a headset with a seperate mic, that would defeat the sense of simplicity I'm lookin for in a Headphone+mic headset system...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jonathan1107 said:


> I just received my Astro a50 system.
> 
> There is an issue with my mic causing a buzzing sound in my right earcup... I read ALL over the forums. Tried all the troubleshooting suggested, nothing works.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I would ditch the A50s as they've overpriced with too much junk crammed in their earcups for good sound quality to co-exist.  Also I hate the idea of paying $ for a Dolby processor but then having it built into a mediocre headset with no way to separate them.
   
  I would pick up some like new PC360s off Amazon and a mixamp instead.  The PC360s soundstage is excellent - a big improvement of the A50s soundstage.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would pick up some like new PC360s off Amazon and a mixamp instead.  The PC360s soundstage is excellent - a big improvement of the A50s soundstage.


 
   
  +1


----------



## roguegeek

kittyinabottle said:


> I really don't want to pay any more than $200 for headphones + amp and the DT990s are already $200. Are these headphones something I could use without an amp or is it needed?




If your budget is $200 for everything, then the DT990 is out of your price range. There is absolutely no point in buying a headphone if you can't give it the proper power it deserves.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kittyinabottle said:


> Hmmmm. You know what, I think I'll just go ahead and purchase the DT990s and eventually upgrade to an amp when I feel like I have the money to spend on one. Does this sound like a pretty reasonable idea or will I be disappointed?


 
   
  You will be disappointed because you will not experience the full potential of those cans


----------



## Evshrug

kittyinabottle said:


> Hmmmm. You know what, I think I'll just go ahead and purchase the DT990s and eventually upgrade to an amp when I feel like I have the money to spend on one. Does this sound like a pretty reasonable idea or will I be disappointed?



I got by with my Q701 without a dedicated headphone amp for a few months... But upgrading to a good amp was definitely worth it. I bet you could get by for a while, but you may not be happy with the headphone (think "I paid +$200 for THIS?!"). One thing you will notice is harsh highs, like that nails on a chalkboard feeling. Probably some clipping and definitely some distortion. A looseness to the bass. Adding an amp will address these issues, and also increase separation and a feeling of depth to the soundstage.

Short answer: you will get sound and music from your headphones, but an amp is definitely worth it.


----------



## kittyinabottle

Alright then. How much would I have to end up spending on an amp that will do the job?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do people even read the first post? Serious question. I almost feel like people come to this thread and just ask away, as if there is no guide. Like they automatically only read the last page or last few pages. I can certainly understand that on other forums that don't allow you to edit, or if the original topic creator isn't active, but I specifically mention when my last update was, and you all should know that I'm active (way too much free time).

Those amps are the cheapest that will get the job done.


Oh another note, I haven't touched my LCD2 in like almost a week. I dunno. Sigh. I'm missing my Annies. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love and feel the LCD2 is my preference in sound out of almost everything, but I just don't like putting them on my head. The leather + weight + huge size just doesn't make them the most comfortable things to wear. Can't have it all it seems. I have literally been wearing the KSC35 almost all week for my tv shows, and anime.

I'm ALMOST tempted on selling them... but I know that the LCD2's sound is something I want to keep, and nothing can compare so far that is lighter, more comfy, and not overly expensive.

Ah well...

You really can't put a price on comfort.


----------



## HopeSilent

I think what I'm looking for in a headphone is a very immersive experience. Something that works well with Dolby Headphone and can be driven by the astro rx. It's not just for video games but also movies and minimal music. Good directionality would be nice but I'm not sure it's really all possible considering immersion is normally a function of bass but we'll see. Right now I'm considering picking up a pair of Koss KSC-75's as recommended by the guide. I'm curious to see if I will be satisfied with them and they're cheap and highly regarded. They shouldn't crush my ears so that's kind've my main concern right now. I wanted closed headphones to isolate from loud neighbors and be courteous to them as well but the only ones that really met my requirements in the guide were the Pro 900's, so I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place now.


----------



## BizareLogics

Hey guys what is your opinion on the 
   
  PC 350SE Sennheiser
  PC 363D Sennheiser
   
  What headset is better? 
   
  Also do these compare to the PC360 or are there any other headsets that are better around the same price?
   
  Thanks


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> Hey guys what is your opinion on the
> 
> PC 350SE Sennheiser
> PC 363D Sennheiser
> ...


 
   
   
  They are "Special Editions" of the PC350 and PC360.  They look about the same except for the outer grills have been changed.  They should all share the same drivers. The PC350/350SE are closed back and the PC360/363D are open back.  The open back version usually gets superior reviews as it has a superior soundstage. 
   
  All of them are plain stereo headsets except for the 363D which uses a USB audio interface with Dolby processing.


----------



## BizareLogics

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> They are "Special Editions" of the PC350 and PC360.  They look about the same except for the outer grills have been changed.  They should all share the same drivers. The PC350/350SE are closed back and the PC360/363D are open back.  The open back version usually gets superior reviews as it has a superior soundstage.
> 
> All of them are plain stereo headsets except for the 363D which uses a USB audio interface with Dolby processing.


 
  So with the PC363D edition, It's like the PC360? They have a few more cosmetic features?. . As far as the USB audio interface does that mean I cannot use my mixamp or soundcard?
   
  Are there any headsets that are better or close to the PC363D


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> So with the PC363D edition, It's like the PC360?
> 
> *Yes.  It even says so on the Sennheiser website.*
> 
> ...


----------



## BizareLogics

Okay. . So i've come down to the MMX 300 or the PC360's. . Massive price difference tho?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> Okay. . So i've come down to the MMX 300 or the PC360's. . Massive price difference tho?


 
   
  The MMX 300 is nice but is considered overpriced since it is essentially a DT770 with a mic.
   
  I'm not sure which wins sound-wise between the MMX 300 and PC360, but the PC360 wins value-wise.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The MMX 300 is nice but is considered overpriced since it is essentially a DT770 with a mic.
> 
> I'm not sure which wins sound-wise between the MMX 300 and PC360, but the PC360 wins value-wise.


 
   
  Factory refurbished from authorized resellers for $140 or less right now. That's quite a steal for the PC360.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The MMX 300 is nice but is considered overpriced since it is essentially a DT770 with a mic.


 
   
  ...Funny that my Avatar is wearing MMX 300s at the moment.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> ...Funny that my Avatar is wearing MMX 300s at the moment.


 
   
  It just means your avatar is interesting and doesn't follow conventional thinking. The user, on the other hand...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I enjoyed losing that much.

Btw guys, the Philips Fidelio X1 is in stock on Amazon!

Unless you have a big head, I'm almost 100% positive this is a headphone you will want if you want an open bassy headphone that isn't the 990.

If I could afford it right now, I'd order myself some, but my Amazon card is maxed out, and I don't wanna get something I'm almost positive I have to return for being too small for my head.


----------



## Naingolann

chicolom said:


> ...Funny that my Avatar is wearing MMX 300s at the moment.
> 
> :rolleyes:




Chicolom with no AKG Q701 avatar?!

Impossibru.jpg


----------



## jonathan1107

Thank you for the quick response. I'm new to the whole headset system, why does one use a "mixamp"... is it to crank up the volume ? or just to have something processing the stereo sound into a virtual surround sound?
   
  I guess my question is, what's the difference between the PC360s and the A50s ?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I wish I enjoyed losing that much.
> 
> Btw guys, the Philips Fidelio X1 is in stock on Amazon!
> 
> ...


Everybody's gotta have some limits, apparently credit is yours 
Are you sure your head is too big? I haven't been following the X1 threads; I didn't know it favored smaller heads.

Can I just say that I kinda expected you to miss the Annies vs the LCD2s sooner or later? I mean, it's cool to experience the best out there, but purely for relaxing with a game or movie the LCD2 seems like it would be a pain to live with. The AKG flagships are also pretty big and want for a little special amping, but they're not THAT bulky, and using them without an amp when you're just being casual works OK (toughing out brief harsh moments, tho in my case I have an E12 so I don't ever really have to make that compromise). I would even say they're sexy enough that I wouldn't feel odd taking them to a computer lab, office, or friend's house and be seen with them (the AD700 were unique and distinctive; I liked them but I knew others would think them bizarre and inelegant). I would even use them at the library, if I didn't think they leaked just a bit much more than polite. I got back into using the AD700 last year, but I hardly used them in 2011 because they were just too big.

Do you think you'll sell/return the LCD2s, buy back an Annie (or the new k712 or whatever it's called) and put the price difference towards, I dunno, solar panels to reduce your electricity bills? How are things going with your laptop & HDMI? I bricked my computer over the weekend, trying to install another OS and overwriting my backup USB drive, but with the help of my girlfriend and her Mac laptop I think I can save it.


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> Thank you for the quick response. I'm new to the whole headset system, why does one use a "mixamp"... is it to crank up the volume ? or just to have something processing the stereo sound into a virtual surround sound?
> 
> I guess my question is, what's the difference between the PC360s and the A50s ?



If you look at my article linked in my signature, I have a summary that addresses your question fully. IMO, yes the Mixamp is just for the processing (and chat mixing), and headsets with multiple "surround drivers" like the A50 lose compared to the quality (& value) you can get with good headphones on your two ears. I also don't understand the headSET fetish versus having a headphone and separate mic... Yeah a headset has it in one piece/unit, but you need a separate plug for a mic anyway (except on a smartphone/tablet) and I find it tidy enough if I clip on the mic to the headphone cable and coil the wire around the headphone cable. Having a headset would make my setup for my Xbox even MORE complicated, as chat and game audio come out of different places anyway. A $2-$3 clip-on mic costs next to nothing compared to the premium you pay for a headset version over a regular headphone.

I forget what it was called, but there was a DT770 clone floating around that was getting attention and good reviews. KRK something?


----------



## Evshrug

On another note... I think the DSS was holding it's own when I was playing with the Q701 plugged directly into it. The built-in amp is not bad for something USB powered... I'm not ready to fully review the DSS tho.
Chico, don't freak out that I got a DSS or DH device, or that I'm slowly copying your past setups h34r:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I sell my LCD2, id probably get the Sennheiser Momentum for portable use (getting a laptop I can actually leave my house with, ill want a good set of eash to drive headphones that perform at least a little better than my clip ons) 

As for home use, it really would be quite hard to give up the LCD2. That's gonna be quite a decision. The replacement would absolutely have to be lightweight, velour padded, and comfortable. The Annie/K712 would be frontrunner, but I'm always hurting to try new things.

For now, I still don't see anything that I'd give up the LCD2 for.

I returned my laptop and I'm still waiting for the replacement to be shipped to me. They're taking forever.

The cheap Beyer wannabe was the Takstar something or other.

Tomorrow I should be getting something in the mail, just not certain which one it is.


----------



## BizareLogics

Does the PC360 give good surround sound? As in immersive quality. I really enjoy the little special effects in a MMO, also FPS for the footsteps etc.

Will I notice a difference in quality from a Turtle Beach x41 headset compared to the $250-400 headsets listed. I guess I'm after the best all rounder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The best all rounder won't be in the PC360's price range. The PC360 is a very good all rounder, but headphones like the Q701 and even better, the K702 ANniversary will trump it in immersion. Surround emulation and soundstage is very, very strong on the PC360.

The X41, A50, are closed headsets. Closed headsets will NEVER be as good as open ones like the PC360 is terms of soundstage and openness (duh).

*THAT BEING SAID, THE X41 IS CURRENTLY $70 ON AMAZON FOR A MANUFACTURER REFURB. IF THE DECODER BOX ALLOWS OTHER HEADPHONES, THIS IS A STEAL.*

That = Dolby Headphone amp + free wireless headset, if you wanna look at it that way. I'm tempted myself. This essentially makes it a viable alternative to the DSS with a headset.

I'd jump on it IF voice chat isn't a necessity.

Best starter setup based on this:

X41 refurb (for the dolby headphone decoder, and headset use whenever I want to chat

+

Q701 (or even better, K702 Anniversary off Razordog Audio or *ProAudioStar* via the make a deal request link for $350).

I should probably get the X41 at some point, for the sake of the review, and perhaps as an additional entry to the amp section.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would ditch the A50s as they've overpriced with too much junk crammed in their earcups for good sound quality to co-exist.  Also I hate the idea of paying $ for a Dolby processor but then having it built into a mediocre headset with no way to separate them.
> 
> I would pick up some like new PC360s off Amazon and a mixamp instead.  The PC360s soundstage is excellent - a big improvement of the A50s soundstage.


 
  Ok question:
   
  The PC360 headset... Isn't that a STEREO headset? When using the a50, I just use the optical cable to link sound card to the TX amp (my soundcard is the XONAR dx) and I don't even need to press the dolby button on the TX amp to get surround sound... the cues seem to come from the right places... What about xbox 360 gaming? To get surround sound, does one need a MIX amp? Does one need to press the dolby button on the mix amp when using the xbox 360? I think there is some optical out port on the xbox 360 right? which would mean no need for "virutal surround sound" but rather directly sent surround sound to the headset...
   
  I guess my quesiton is: If I get the PC360s, without a MIX amp, will I hear surround sound (rear vs front side... etc...) by just pluggin them in? (PC, consoles...) or must I purchase a Mix amp to make full use of the optical connections on both the PC and the Consoles ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You WANT stereo headphones.

The Mixamp = the equivalent of an external Xonar DX

Don't overthink it.

The Dolby Button ensures you're getting Dolby Headphone. Not sure if you're using the Xonar properly. Go back to the first page, and listen to the video I linked. Pay attention to the times I have noted. MAKE SURE you're listening to the video with your soundcard's dolby processing turned off as the video is gonna have the processing built in.


----------



## BizareLogics

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The best all rounder won't be in the PC360's price range. The PC360 is a very good all rounder, but headphones like the Q701 and even better, the K702 ANniversary will trump it in immersion. Surround emulation and soundstage is very, very strong on the PC360.
> 
> The X41, A50, are closed headsets. Closed headsets will NEVER be as good as open ones like the PC360 is terms of soundstage and openness (duh).
> 
> ...


 
  Is it worth me spending the extra $$ for something like the K702 or the Q701 or the K701.
   
  I have a turtle beach x41 transmitter and also a 2013 mix amp pro on the way. Which would be better to pair with. The x41 transmitter (tower) does have wireless aswell as a 3.5mm input.
   
  I plugged some old TDK MP100's into the X41 tower and 5.1 sounded fantastic. X41's are discontinued now but you can find a used / refurb maybe.


----------



## jonathan1107

That's great but it doesn't answer my question. My Xonar DX soundcard supports surround sound. But the PC360 features 3.5mm plugs (two of them, 1 for mic, and 1 for sound). How do I get the surround sound processed by my soundcard (xonar dx) to the PC360? Do I just plug them 3.5mm jacks? or must I use the MIX amp (which is what I feel you are tryin to say... )
   
  (about the famous dolby button on the mix amps, what does it do exactly?) Now I know you guys have written TONS of info on these forums with probably the answers to most of my questions, but there's just too much information to run through. If you don't feel like "re-typing" everything for me, could you copy and paste? or point me to the section of the thread you are thinking about. I really want to invest my 300$ wisely, I was fool enough to trust the a50s would be top of the line, I don't feel like doing another mistake ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

...uhh those questions are common sense... you plug them to the headphone jack. DOLBY HEADPHONE takes a digital surround signal and converts it into virtual surround for standard stereo headphones.

Google... its your best friend... that and Youtube. O_o

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but these things are easily answer with maybe just a few quick google searches.


----------



## jonathan1107

Yes I know what Virtual surround sound is... my question is this:
   
  With my astro a50, I simply plugged in the optical cable (spdif) I had from my xonar's DX souncard to the TX amp Optical input. When gaming, I noticed right off the bat I was getting surround sound (was that virtual surround sound or true surround sound, just sent over from the DX card?)
   
  Because, in this very case, I didnt have the dolby button on... I just had the optical cable plugged in, and on my xonar dx panel I set up the sound output to be "SPDIF out" with Dolby Digital Live technology on... And I got surround sound in my ears...
   
  Now what I heard, was that processed a second time by the TX amp? or was it just sound sent over straight to the headphones? And I even tried to output the sound using the USB connection only, I made the Astro a50 the default sound output on my PC (instead of the Xonar DX) and I was still getting the same Surround Sound in my ears when playing games. Again, do you think that was virtual surround sound?
   
  I guess, what I'm NOT understanding is: What is required for good surround sound to be playned in a headset system? The PC soundcard? The Mix amp? the headset drivers? I must sound like a terrible noob, but I am really trying to understand, and I've spent the last 2 hours reading through tons of info on this forum... but I guess some of it is too hard for me to understand. Can you try and put it in simple words so I can understand how the process is done.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Optical out will normally send out a real dolby digital 5.1 signal, but the DX might be sending Dolby Headphone with the DX panel on, so there is no need to do it with the A50.

A headphone can't 'take' a real surround signal. It's going to be converted to stereo at some point, or at least to Dolby Headphone.

Turn OFF the Dolby Technology setting on the Xonar panel. If you no longer get virtual surround, then that means the DX is actually converting into dolby headphone for other devices when you have it ON.

What you'd do in this situation to test if it's legit is to test the A50 with the DX panel to Dolby off and press the Dolby button on the A50. If it sounds the same as when the DX pnel is on with the A50 Dolby is off, then that means the DX is doing the same processing as the A50's internal decoder, so there is no need to have both on. In this instance, it's up to you as both have the same processing, though the DX's might be higher quality.

I don't have a dolby device on my PC so not sure what settings to use, but the Mixamp/A50/etc is pretty barren of settings. It either works or doesn't. If it detects a Dolby Digital signal and the Dolby button is on, it will do it's work. The DX will have panels, etc, with more options, though might be more confusing to use properly.


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> That's great but it doesn't answer my question. My Xonar DX soundcard supports surround sound. But the PC360 features 3.5mm plugs (two of them, 1 for mic, and 1 for sound). How do I get the surround sound processed by my soundcard (xonar dx) to the PC360? Do I just plug them 3.5mm jacks? or must I use the MIX amp (which is what I feel you are tryin to say... )
> 
> (about the famous dolby button on the mix amps, what does it do exactly?) Now I know you guys have written TONS of info on these forums with probably the answers to most of my questions, but there's just too much information to run through. If you don't feel like "re-typing" everything for me, could you copy and paste? or point me to the section of the thread you are thinking about. I really want to invest my 300$ wisely, I was fool enough to trust the a50s would be top of the line, I don't feel like doing another mistake ...



...
Link you're asking for is in my signature. No seriously, the info you want is in just one post, carefully explained and organized. You could've understood by now instead of repeating your question.

Btw when you're using the optical out connected to your A50 (which has it's own processing) on your Xonar card, you're basically not even using the Xonar's processing. The Xonar takes the surround info from a game, and (just pipes it out to your A50 via Optical Out, or) processes that surround into a mix that will virtually sound like surround, but be mixed for stereo headphones. So any old stereo headphone could plug into the 3.5mm jack of your sound card, and hear virtual surround. Headphones with good separation and soundstage (like most of the headphones Mad has bothered to review) will produce that effect very well.

To repeat in your language: yes, you "just plug them 3.5mm jacks" of the Xonar DX


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ...
> Link you're asking for is in my signature. No seriously, the info you want is in just one post, carefully explained and organized. You could've understood by now instead of repeating your question.
> 
> Btw when you're using the optical out connected to your A50 (which has it's own processing) on your Xonar card, you're basically not even using the Xonar's processing. The Xonar takes the surround info from a game, and (just pipes it out to your A50 via Optical Out, or) processes that surround into a mix that will virtually sound like surround, but be mixed for stereo headphones. So any old stereo headphone could plug into the 3.5mm jack of your sound card, and hear virtual surround. Headphones with good separation and soundstage (like most of the headphones Mad has bothered to review) will produce that effect very well.
> ...


 

 With all due respect, when you go to the garage, do you take the pamphlet and read all about the car parts and how they work together and what to buy, and which is better or do you just want it "straight" ?
   
  If you are dealing with something you don'T know much about. You want it straight and simple, you want o "ask away"... I know you guys know way more about headsets than I do, which is why I read through what I could, half of which I didnt understand because this ain't my domain of expertise... Now if you feel I annoy you because I don't have the patience to re-read everything 5 times until I finally get it, maybe you ought to just ignore me, how about that?


----------



## lunemi

I just found out that there is a brand new sequel to the "ath ad700" and the "ath ad900", the "ath ad700x" and "ath ad900x". I was just wondering if you guys have any information about these two headphones and if they are better then there predecessers. Thanks in advance!


----------



## jonathan1107

Curious to know which AMP would be a good match for the PC360 Headset. (for Multi platform gaming)
  Also would like to know how would one go about using a Headset and a Seperate Mic when gaming on consoles?...


----------



## zx6guy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The best all rounder won't be in the PC360's price range. The PC360 is a very good all rounder, but headphones like the Q701 and even better, the K702 ANniversary will trump it in immersion. Surround emulation and soundstage is very, very strong on the PC360.
> 
> The X41, A50, are closed headsets. Closed headsets will NEVER be as good as open ones like the PC360 is terms of soundstage and openness (duh).
> 
> ...


 
   
  This got me interested but after a quick look through the X41's manual I have my doubts this is possible.  It's not like a Mixamp 5.8 at all.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





jonathan1107 said:


> With all due respect, when you go to the garage, do you take the pamphlet and read all about the car parts and how they work together and what to buy, and which is better or do you just want it "straight" ?
> 
> If you are dealing with something you don'T know much about. You want it straight and simple, you want o "ask away"... I know you guys know way more about headsets than I do, which is why I read through what I could, half of which I didnt understand because this ain't my domain of expertise... Now if you feel I annoy you because I don't have the patience to re-read everything 5 times until I finally get it, maybe you ought to just ignore me, how about that?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





lunemi said:


> I just found out that there is a brand new sequel to the "ath ad700" and the "ath ad900", the "ath ad700x" and "ath ad900x". I was just wondering if you guys have any information about these two headphones and if they are better then there predecessers. Thanks in advance!


 
  There isn't much out there on the AD700X, but there's a ton out there on the AD900X. Check out this thread. Also see Lachlan's video review. I am just a huge fanboy of the AD lineup and I will probably be importing an AD1000X from Amazon Japan soon.


----------



## lunemi

I'm half swedish and half japanese btw! So I have no problems getting things from Japan although I live in Sweden  So you think I should go with the ath ad900x? Is it better for fps games than the ad700 and ad700x?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





lunemi said:


> I'm half swedish and half japanese btw! So I have no problems getting things from Japan although I live in Sweden  So you think I should go with the ath ad900x? Is it better for fps games than the ad700 and ad700x?


 
   
  I have not tested any of the newer X models and, therefore, can't recommend anything. Sorry.


----------



## lunemi

Thx for the reply! I think I'll go with the ath ad900x. I'm really curious how they sound and I can get them for 140 dollar so why not?  I'm pretty sure they are going to sound amazing with the X-Fi titanium HD


----------



## jonathan1107

What would be a good MIX amp for the PC360 Headset?
  I read in Mad Lust Envy's reviews that the Astro MixAmp (2013 edition) has some "hissing" sound, which I definitly don't wanna have in my ears... He recommends the Astro MixAmp 2011 edition or even the 2009 edition...
   
  Thing is I've looked around, and can't find 2011 or 2009 editions of the MixAmp for sale anywhere... U guys know where I could find a really good Mixamp for the PC360? (one that won't have lots of hissing) ???


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> With all due respect, when you go to the garage, do you take the pamphlet and read all about the car parts and how they work together and what to buy, and which is better or do you just want it "straight" ?
> 
> If you are dealing with something you don'T know much about. You want it straight and simple, you want o "ask away"... I know you guys know way more about headsets than I do, which is why I read through what I could, half of which I didnt understand because this ain't my domain of expertise... Now if you feel I annoy you because I don't have the patience to re-read everything 5 times until I finally get it, maybe you ought to just ignore me, how about that?







jonathan1107 said:


> Curious to know which AMP would be a good match for the PC360 Headset. (for Multi platform gaming)
> Also would like to know how would one go about using a Headset and a Seperate Mic when gaming on consoles?...







jonathan1107 said:


> What would be a good MIX amp for the PC360 Headset?
> I read in Mad Lust Envy's reviews that the Astro MixAmp (2013 edition) has some "hissing" sound, which I definitly don't wanna have in my ears... He recommends the Astro MixAmp 2011 edition or even the 2009 edition...
> 
> Thing is I've looked around, and can't find 2011 or 2009 editions of the MixAmp for sale anywhere... U guys know where I could find a really good Mixamp for the PC360? (one that won't have lots of hissing) ???




When you say "with all due respect," I get the feeling that you misunderstand me. I do reply because I do want to help, I made my explanation guide in that spirit, and I'm not sure how to say it more "straight" than I said in my last post (your Xonar soundcard is already serving the purpose of a Mixamp for your PC, and headsets are a poor value), nor how to explain things more clearly and completely than in the post linked in my signature.

I heartily recommend a clip-on lapel mic (amazon search, i bought mine there), and the Q701 or if you need a cheaper headphone something like an Audio Technica AD700, Sennheiser HD558, or Takstar headphone. Those cheaper options don't even need an extra amp.

If you want a surround processor for consoles, you can choose between a home theater receiver with headphone surround, an Astro Mixamp, Creative Recon3D USB, Turtle Beach DSS2 or DSS, or some unit bundled with a gaming headset. Those are listed in descending order of price (and pretty much quality as well). If you want an older Mixamp, you gotta hunt eBay like everybody else, though personally I think a Mixamp is only worth it if you want a piece of hardware to balance chat/game volume on the fly, and only for console gaming. The Mixamp and Recon3D USB come with cables that make adding chat to your console setup easy, but for my Xbox 360 I just bought a little adapter on Amazon (little white thing with "X360" printed in green) for $3, and I just set chat audio to play through "speakers."

There you go... Those are the recommendations. I tried not to say why I recommend those to spare your patience, but we do have that info if you change your mind. Also, please keep in mind we're all just hobbyists like you, sharing our experiences just because we feel generous.

By the way, I absolutely do try to become informed before going to an auto garage and seeing how much they can run up the bill. If you arm yourself with just basic knowledge, you'd be surprised how much you can do to maintain your car for just like $25. You dont have to know EVERYTHING, just how to learn efficiently. If you went into a Best Buy, asked a *salesman* "Hey, tell me straight, what's the best headset for gaming?" Of course the salesman would just point you at the most expensive Astro (A50) or Turtle Beach headset. I like to make my own choices with my money, instead of letting others choose for me.


----------



## Evshrug

lunemi said:


> Thx for the reply! I think I'll go with the ath ad900x. I'm really curious how they sound and I can get them for 140 dollar so why not?  I'm pretty sure they are going to sound amazing with the X-Fi titanium HD



I'm curious about the new models too! I enjoyed my AD700 very much, although that headphone recently found a new home (I think). They're probably very close in performance to the headphones they're replacing, but the little things (such as black instead of purple grills) may make all the difference to some. If you do get the AD900x, I (& probably most of us in this thread) would love to hear your impressions


----------



## Change is Good

I have a question for K702 Annie owners. Do they have the extra foam piece under the earpads like the Q701s? Am I better off removing them or keeping them in with the Annie pads?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Leave it stock.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





lunemi said:


> I just found out that there is a brand new sequel to the "ath ad700" and the "ath ad900", the "ath ad700x" and "ath ad900x". I was just wondering if you guys have any information about these two headphones and if they are better then there predecessers. Thanks in advance!
> 
> So you think I should go with the ath ad900x? Is it better for fps games than the ad700 and ad700x?
> 
> I think I'll go with the ath ad900x. I'm really curious how they sound and I can get them for 140 dollar so why not?


 
   
  Here is the thead for them:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998/audio-technica-updates-their-open-headphones-ad-series-ad2000x-ad1000x-ad900x-ad700x-and-ad500x
   
  I've read that the AD900x has more bass than the AD900, but the AD700x is still pretty bass light - so I would probably go with the AD900x if you get any of them.
  For $140 dollars, I'd say go for it.  If you don't like them you can resell them to me at cost 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




    
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> If you do get the AD900x, I (& probably most of us in this thread) would love to hear your impressions


 
   
  Yes, if you do get them let us know what you think.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> When you say "with all due respect," I get the feeling that you misunderstand me. I do reply because I do want to help, I made my explanation guide in that spirit, and I'm not sure how to say it more "straight" than I said in my last post (your Xonar soundcard is already serving the purpose of a Mixamp for your PC, and headsets are a poor value), nor how to explain things more clearly and completely than in the post linked in my signature.
> 
> I heartily recommend a clip-on lapel mic (amazon search, i bought mine there), and the Q701 or if you need a cheaper headphone something like an Audio Technica AD700, Sennheiser HD558, or Takstar headphone. Those cheaper options don't even need an extra amp.
> 
> ...





>





> Thanks for the info. But if I were to do what you suggest: Buy a Q701 for instance and clip-on mic, would I be able to use these 2 when gaming on a console?
> As of now, I'm leaning towards returning my A50s and buying the PC360 and eventually the MIXamp I guess. Know that I do appreciate your wanting to help


----------



## lubczyk

@Mad Lust Envy
   
  I would just like to ask for some clarification. Did you perhaps run the AKG K702 Anniversary successfully off of the Marantz SR5002 alone?


----------



## HalidePisces

lunemi said:


> I just found out that there is a brand new sequel to the "ath ad700" and the "ath ad900", the "ath ad700x" and "ath ad900x". I was just wondering if you guys have any information about these two headphones and if they are better then there predecessers. Thanks in advance!




http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998

Massive thread about the recent ATH-AD### refresh. The first few pages are pre-release hype/anticipation, so you might want to skip that. The most notable difference I think is that the new headphone series has angled drivers.


By the way, anyone here tried the Sony MDR-MA900 for gaming? Would be interesting to see where it stands.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





don tonberry said:


> I got my DSS and Steelseries mixer in the mail and they do both work together.  However, when using both the audio quality degrades a bit compared to when I plug directly into the DSS.  It seems to lose highs and mids.  Is there anyway I can hook this up so that I don't lose as much quality? Or find an alternative way to get voice chat mixing with my DSS?


 
  Does anybody have this kind of setup or can assist me?


----------



## Evshrug

*Johnathan1107* (Master Chief reference?),
I recommend the Q701 as my favorite headphone I've experienced, and because it generally is well reviewed by others too. I use mine with my Xbox 360 all the time.

Clip-on lapel mic (seems to regularly go in and out of stock, better than Microsoft Chat mic):
http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=zg_bs_11974771_14

Adapter to connect clip-on lapel mic to Xbox 360 controller (I have 2 of these, though the Mixamp and Recon3D USB have their own included adapters):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005543MAG/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 I haven't heard the Sennheiser PC360... FWIR it's very balanced and good, sometimes not very engaging. Take away the built-in mic and the PC360 = Sennheiser HD555. The HD55*8* is a slight uptick in quality, and still cheaper than the PC360. IMO The PC360 still isn't super convenient because you still need some additional adapters if you want to use it with a console (like those included with a Mixamp or Recon3D). The price difference is about $20 new... Not a huge deal but after mic + adapter you still have enough savings for a Steam game or pizza and dessert 
Of course... I just noticed there are two refurbs for sale on amazon for just over $100... That is a pretty great deal.
-----


*Don Tonberry,*
I have a DSS now, and i just plug my mic straight into my controller (with an adapter, see above). Usually, I can mix game vs chat audio balance by turning up the volume on my DSS (all sounds louder), and turning down the game volume in the game's settings menu. I use this method all the time in the CoD games and several of my single-player games, though strangely the Halo games don't offer a volume adjustment in their settings menus. I'm not a huge fan of the Xbox's live "ducking" feature that lowers game volume temporarily if someone starts chatting, because I have a buddy who does not shut up when he's drunk and I end up not hearing tactical cues  Plus, some people just have really bad, quiet microphones, and I need to turn up the volume very loud to hear them at all, and I don't want the game to be nearly that loud.

The steelseries mixer is a passive device (no amping), so it just adds impedance to the circuit and thus degrades sound quality the further you get from 100% volume. My chat adapter has a mic-in port AND a chat-out port... I only use the mic port now (and have all chat/voice audio play through "speakers"), but possibru I could hook up a little amp (like my FiiO E5) to the chat-out port and then use a headphone y-splitter cable in the reverse direction to merge game and chat audio back into my one headphone... I could try it, I have all the pieces, but I probably won't bother, haha.


----------



## lunemi

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I'm curious about the new models too! I enjoyed my AD700 very much, although that headphone recently found a new home (I think). They're probably very close in performance to the headphones they're replacing, but the little things (such as black instead of purple grills) may make all the difference to some. If you do get the AD900x, I (& probably most of us in this thread) would love to hear your impressions


 
   
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Here is the thead for them:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998/audio-technica-updates-their-open-headphones-ad-series-ad2000x-ad1000x-ad900x-ad700x-and-ad500x
> 
> I've read that the AD900x has more bass than the AD900, but the AD700x is still pretty bass light - so I would probably go with the AD900x if you get any of them.
> ...


 
  Sure I can tell you guys my impression on the ath ad900x(will probablly get them 2 may) But I really don't know anything about audio  But I'll give it a go


----------



## calpis

I can't comment on the Steelseries Universal mixer but I had their first version of it that was xbox only.I originally picked it up to use with my Yamaha receiver to get chat mixing with Silent Cinema. Every controller I plugged it into added an incredible amount of hiss as soon as I plugged it into the USB for power. It was practically unusable and I returned it the next day and went back to just plugging my mic directly into my controller. I never bothered with their Universal Mixer because I've been doubting their quality standard ever since trying their original Mixer.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> On another note... I think the DSS was holding it's own when I was playing with the Q701 plugged directly into it. The built-in amp is not bad for something USB powered... I'm not ready to fully review the DSS tho.
> Chico, don't freak out that I got a DSS or DH device, or that I'm slowly copying your past setups


 
   
  Ahh...so you got a DSS to replace the Recon?  I assume you picked up the first version?   It's a steal at $30 used, which is what it sells for regularly on eBay.


----------



## Evshrug

*lunemi*,
It's ok that you are new to learning about audio, I always encourage people to stretch their "wings" and try to record impressions and feelings. Don't worry or get too caught up by it, but putting your impressions into words will help you define your perception of the headphone, and in the future you'll be able to look back at what you wrote and get a glimmer of what you were thinking at the time. Plus, I'm genuinely curious about the new headphones  I read the first 5 pages or so of that linked thread, but I'm still interested in your thoughts. I'm an easy audience, lol.


*Calpis*,
Did you ever compare the DH and SC side-by-side? When I first used the DSS, I immediately thought "this sounds a lot like SC," and when I hooked up and used my Yamaha receiver at my girlfriends two days later for some more CoD4, it seemed to mostly confirm that feeling (though depth may have been slightly better with the DSS... further testing, and side-by-side testing, will be required before I form a conclusion).


*Chicolom*,
Yeah, it was cheap, so I basically picked it up for review purposes. So far I think it does a good job portraying front/back separation, but near the 6 O'clock position the reverbs become almost matched and separation between front/back becomes unnatural, basically I can tell if it's behind if there is the right kind of reverb. I do intend to test it more though, nothing's set in stone and I haven't formed any conclusions. I kinda do wish I still had the Recon3D USB for testing alongside, but at the end of the day I have these devices to play games after work, not to test and review.


I just read Mad's most recent reviews and the bits written by Rukuu in the guide. I'm reminded of the good stuff in there (and again, I want to test out the DT880, I think they're simply clear enough and so precise that you can hear the same rear depth-collapse in space I kinda heard in my first test of the DSS... and of course, the DT880 are just very prestigious headphones), but also that my main "contributions" to this thread are mostly just from having a contrary opinion... like that the Recon3D USB should be tested as a viable alternative to the Mixamp, or just being the contrary voice saying "I don't want more bass!" or "Why spend more money?" I've been here a year, but don't really do anything of lasting usefulness  maybe I'm just reflecting on my career again, the nice manager that hired me is leaving the company, and my hours have been drastically cut for no reason other than the returned GM doesn't know that I need full-time, I guess.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lubczyk said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> I would just like to ask for some clarification. Did you perhaps run the AKG K702 Anniversary successfully off of the Marantz SR5002 alone?




K702 Annie, Q701, HD650, LCD2, HE400 all sounded great off the Marantz. I dunno how high quality the internal power supply is, but looking through the grills on top it looks more impressive than my SA-31 and NFB5, though how much of what i saw was headphone circuitry is questionable. I have no doubt the DAC portion is at least audiophile grade, and the headphone amp is considerably 'louder' than both the SA31 and Compass 2 (tested by driving the 3DS which is eeally, really weak). Not sure about it's technical specs though. They tend to have highish output impedances, though coincidetally, the AKG 70x dont really get affected by that, nor do planars, and the HD650 is high impedance, so it's in the clear.

I do think the Compass 2 sounds slightly better for my headphones...like very, very slightly.


----------



## BizareLogics

Sorry to post so much useless stuff...
   
  But I've got a budget of $450 for a new headset.
   
  I'm looking @ the following to pair with my X41 Decoder / Astro Mixamp Pro 5.8.
   
  PC360
   
  AKG Q701
   
  AKG K701
   
  AKG K702 65th Anniverasary ( Is there a difference between the Annies and the normal K702's? )
   
  What other headsets / headphones are a good choice.
   
  I know there is a whole list on page one but I need other peoples opinions and experiences.. And It's alot of money to invest =] haha
   
  Thank you heaps


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> *Johnathan1107* (Master Chief reference?),
> I recommend the Q701 as my favorite headphone I've experienced, and because it generally is well reviewed by others too. I use mine with my Xbox 360 all the time.
> 
> Clip-on lapel mic (seems to regularly go in and out of stock, better than Microsoft Chat mic):
> ...


 

 Ok thanks. I checked the links. I didn't know such adapters existed for the Xbox 360. My next question was going to be: Using that adaptor of yours, it wouldn't be surround sound coming into the headset right? One would need a MIX amp hooked up with an optical cable coming out of the xbox 360 to get that right ?
   
  Also, yeah from all your recommendations, clearly you guys think its better to use a stand alone quality headphone with a clip-on mic or something of the like, and it makes sense. But yeah, someone recommended the PC360 to me earlier in this thread, and after thinking about it, I went ahead and ordered it. I know I could have gotten a cheaper deal through the HD558, but yeah, I do like the idea of a 2 in 1 (mic + headset).
   
  And from what I've read, the surround sound is good, cues are good, soundstage is good, and bass is not boomy like it is in my horrible A50s.
  To all who might read this: DO NOT buy the A50s, they just hiss and buzz all the time... and everyone at Astro doesn'T give a flipping **** and their customer support after delivering a broken product into my hands is just terrible. Kind of dissapointing when you think about all the hype they produced with their a40 series...
   
  Thanks to all for the tips, really appreciate it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't like the A50. Disappointing.

I'm getting a package today. Very excite. Can't put up the review until next month though.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





> *Don Tonberry,*
> I have a DSS now, and i just plug my mic straight into my controller (with an adapter, see above). Usually, I can mix game vs chat audio balance by turning up the volume on my DSS (all sounds louder), and turning down the game volume in the game's settings menu. I use this method all the time in the CoD games and several of my single-player games, though strangely the Halo games don't offer a volume adjustment in their settings menus. I'm not a huge fan of the Xbox's live "ducking" feature that lowers game volume temporarily if someone starts chatting, because I have a buddy who does not shut up when he's drunk and I end up not hearing tactical cues
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I was thinking about getting an adapter like that and a splitter for my headphones as well. So that I could get the voice and game audio together.  I play a lot of Halo so I think I'd have to go this route because of the lack of in game volume settings.  Do you think the voice audio would be loud enough without an amp?


----------



## Chubtoad

I'm still waiting for my Annies to arrive, and waiting for the modmic and asgard 2 to come back into stock so they can ship!
   
   
  If I was looking at a portable DAC/Amp setup would the E17 be one of the better/more popular options? it sounds like a kind of all in one portable solution


----------



## AaronBroad

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> Sorry to post so much useless stuff...
> 
> But I've got a budget of $450 for a new headset.
> 
> ...


 
  I have the K702s and love them. I have owned the K701 and PC 360. The K701 is very similar sounding to K702 - both provide I think the best detail and positioning / soundstage for gaming. The PC 360 is nice, but I returned them after comparing to my K702. If you get a headphone instead of a headset, I recommend looking into modmic. The K701/2 are very comfortable to me, but some have complained that the bumps on the headband hurt. So make sure you have an option to return them if this is the case for you. (The Annies don't have the bumps so that's another option) 
  Another option you might look into is Beyerdynamic's MMX 300 headset. I used the MMX 300 for some time and would still be using it but for the closed design (I needed to be able to hear my kids if they woke up after going to bed etc.)


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> Ok thanks. I checked the links. I didn't know such adapters existed for the Xbox 360. My next question was going to be: Using that adaptor of yours, it wouldn't be surround sound coming into the headset right? One would need a MIX amp hooked up with an optical cable coming out of the xbox 360 to get that right ?
> 
> Also, yeah from all your recommendations, clearly you guys think its better to use a stand alone quality headphone with a clip-on mic or something of the like, and it makes sense. But yeah, someone recommended the PC360 to me earlier in this thread, and after thinking about it, I went ahead and ordered it. I know I could have gotten a cheaper deal through the HD558, but yeah, I do like the idea of a 2 in 1 (mic + headset).
> 
> ...




The adapter above is only for chat audio... Only chat audio goes through an Xbox controller. Like you said, you still need something hooked up to the back of your Xbox to get game audio. I don't know if you live with your family, but a home receiver (especially one with headphone surround, like a Yamaha, Sony, or an older receiver with Dolby Headphone like Harman Kardon, Marantz, or Denon receiver) is the most convenient option because you can hook all your consoles and speakers up to it, but if space is tight or you need something portable, then yeah, you need one of the gaming surround processors I've listed before. Have you gotten your surround working from your Xonar soundcard yet?

I can understand about just sticking to your guns about a form factor. I was going to buy a car about a week ago, but even though the dealer had some great deals on the table for me, I walked away because I wanted a hatchback with a turbo charger. So, I'm trying to hold back till I save up for what I really want 



don tonberry said:


> I was thinking about getting an adapter like that and a splitter for my headphones as well. So that I could get the voice and game audio together.  I play a lot of Halo so I think I'd have to go this route because of the lack of in game volume settings.  Do you think the voice audio would be loud enough without an amp?




Usually voice audio IS loud enough, including with random other people online. I just have two buddies on my friend's list that have whisper-quiet mics, and I'm not the world's greatest at hearing what people say either (wait, now just one, the other went to the dark side and bought a Turtle Beach, but at least his mic is loud... VERY loud now). So, I suggest seeing if you can live with the basic setup before you bother amping voice audio. I tried amping my mic-in once, but the mic plug didn't match up with the amp's jack, so the controller wasn't picking up any input sound at all. The voice *output* should work, but I haven't tried it.



chubtoad said:


> I'm still waiting for my Annies to arrive, and waiting for the modmic and asgard 2 to come back into stock so they can ship!
> 
> If I was looking at a portable DAC/Amp setup would the E17 be one of the better/more popular options? it sounds like a kind of all in one portable solution



The E17 is good to use with your computer, but be aware that it doesn't process headphone surround. Mad Lust Envy had an E17 for a while, but while gaming he had the Mixamp plugged into his console and just plugged the E17 into the Mixamp as an amp (the DAC portion couldn't be used in this setup). You could use the E17 to game in stereo, which I did for most of my years, but honestly surround is more fun


----------



## Chubtoad

Well I suppose I don't actually need it because I'll have the astro mixamp for surround while at home, just figured it would be something I could take with me in a non home setup
   
  I was thinking of psvita for non home use, but I suppose the mixamp plugs into the vita as well with the 3.5mm adapater so probably wouldn't need it either way haha


----------



## Evshrug

True, it would plug into the PS vita, but how would you power the Mixamp? It's powered by USB, you know (unless the older models with batteries could function this way?)
If you need an amp for the Vita, I'd recommend a FiiO E11 instead. No DAC component (but your Vita is the DAC in that case anyway), but the amp is a smidgen more powerful than the E17 and costs much less.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Vita doesn't take advantage of Dolby Headphone in any way shape or form, and the Mixamp isn't much of an amp to begin with.


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'm unfamiliar with the LVA-7330 mic but is the plug on it a stereo plug (2 lines/3poles) or a mono plug(1 line/2poles)? If it's a stereo plug then you need to add in a mono-to-stereo adapter to your cable chain in order for the xbox controller to be able to pick up your mic. Or you can try and find a mono 2.5mm to 3.5mm extension cable which would do the same thing. Standalone mics will only function on the xbox controller if the plug is mono.


 
   
  Yeah, it's a stereo TRS plug.  I realize the standard xbox headsets are mono all around, but the plug is still a TRS so I thought I could just have mic audio running on both contacts and be ok.  Monoprice does have a 2.5mm mono plug to 3.5mm stereo jack adapter here, http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042909&p_id=7122&seq=1&format=2.  That would do the trick then?  My concern when I Iooked at that before was that with the plug being only TS and not matching the TRS of the Xbox headset, I thought the proper contacts wouldn't be made inside the controller's jack.
   
  At the moment, it's kinda a moot point as I ended up buying one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111051473464 on ebay, but if it ends up not working I'll give the 2.5mm mono adapter a shot.
   
  Thanks!


----------



## burritoboy9984

>


 
   
  I got the PLYR 2's while Skullcandy had the 50% off sale a while back, best $65 I've ever spent imo. They are very similar to the SLYR's IMO. Not great for gaming, but are perfect for watching TV and movies while the wife is sleeping. MLE, will you compare the built in processor to the one from the receiver plz? Just for curiosity sake.
   
  On a side note, my buddy just received his X1's and I think after messing around with them briefly, I'm going to have to jump on the bandwagon and snag a pair. They give a feeling like the LCD lineup has of being slightly closed for an open headphone. I'll just have to get used to how loud I'm talking I guess, lol.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't divulge anything yet. Just wanted to give you guys a head's up of what's around the corner.


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> True, it would plug into the PS vita, but how would you power the Mixamp? It's powered by USB, you know (unless the older models with batteries could function this way?)
> If you need an amp for the Vita, I'd recommend a FiiO E11 instead. No DAC component (but your Vita is the DAC in that case anyway), but the amp is a smidgen more powerful than the E17 and costs much less.


 
  Thanks, looks like I could pick up an E11 for $62.00, not to bad


----------



## Currawong

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's a thought actually. I could then use one with speakers in my living room. So far I might go for one of the gaming units though.
   
  Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for that. I don't know why I didn't think to look for third party adaptors.


----------



## kiab42

After much searching around I've come to the conclusion that the Beyerdynamic DT990 + FiiO E10 DAC will be a good combination for my PC gaming needs. Does this sound like a reasonable purchase or do any of you feel that I could spend my money on something better? I've also looked at the FiiO E9K as suggested by this guide, but I was refered to the E10 by someone else and was drawn to the price. I know it's only a $35 dollar difference, but if there isn't too big of a difference then why not? I'm new to the audiophile world by the way, so any suggestions are very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're gaming in stereo... AND you're underpowering the 990... double whammy, IMHO. Not sure which impedance 990 you got, but the 32ohm is current hungry, and needs more power than the 250ohm. The 250ohm is too high an impedance for the E10 to fully drive to a great level...

You might be happy with how it will sound, but you're basically bottlenecking the 990.

Oh well..

Definitely would've went with something else.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kiab42 said:


> After much searching around I've come to the conclusion that the Beyerdynamic DT990 + FiiO E10 DAC will be a good combination for my PC gaming needs. Does this sound like a reasonable purchase or do any of you feel that I could spend my money on something better? I've also looked at the FiiO E9K as suggested by this guide, but I was refered to the E10 by someone else and was drawn to the price. I know it's only a $35 dollar difference, but if there isn't too big of a difference then why not? I'm new to the audiophile world by the way, so any suggestions are very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 
   
  The E10 is a stereo DAC/amp.  For PC gaming I would go with a device with virtual surround, which would be an Asus U3 for laptops, or on of the Asus or Creative desktop card for a desktop PC.
   
  The E10 is fine for music, but for gaming I would choose a device with virtual surround over it every time when gaming.  The E10 can only be used as the first device in the audio chain, as it only has a digital input.
   
  Also, there is a big difference between the E10 and E9.  One is a powerful desktop amp while the other is a small and cute usb powered DAC/amp.  The amp in the E10 is decent, but it's NOT on the same level as the E9.


----------



## kiab42

Thanks for the responses. So, it looks like the 990s will do the job for my gaming, but the amp I chose will hold me back. I'm guessing this mean the E9K will be the better choice over the E10 or should I do what Chicolom suggested and upgrade my sound card?


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





kiab42 said:


> Thanks for the responses. So, it looks like the 990s will do the job for my gaming, but the amp I chose will hold me back. I'm guessing this mean the E9K will be the better choice over the E10 or should I do what Chicolom suggested and upgrade my sound card?


 
   
  Upgrade your soundcard to something that provides headphone surround. THEN get an amp later if you are not satisfied.
   
  -Erik


----------



## kiab42

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> Upgrade your soundcard to something that provides headphone surround. THEN get an amp later if you are not satisfied.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Sounds like a plan. Is it possible do get a sound card that will do the job for pretty cheap. Also, from your experience or anybody else's, would the 990s provide decent audio with a good sound card or would it also benefit from an amp?


----------



## kupco

I currently have DT990's with a Creative Soundblaster Z hooked up through the amped headphone out on the soundcard and it drives the Beyers decently. I fell like there is room for more though (mainly when listening to music) so I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Magni to drive them properly.


----------



## kiab42

Quote: 





kupco said:


> I currently have DT990's with a Creative Soundblaster Z hooked up through the amped headphone out on the soundcard and it drives the Beyers decently. I fell like there is room for more though (mainly when listening to music) so I'm thinking of getting a Schiit Magni to drive them properly.


 
  So, currently you don't have a stand alone amp? For someone like me who is not very familiar with higher quality audio would the 990s and a good sound card impress me? Also, now that I think of it, in about a year I will be switching from desktop to exclusively using a laptop. Could I get by with purchasing an amp now instead of a sound card, so that I can easily make the transition from desktop to laptop? Thanks.


----------



## roguegeek

kiab42 said:


> So, currently you don't have a stand alone amp? For someone like me who is not very familiar with higher quality audio would the 990s and a good sound card impress me? Also, now that I think of it, in about a year I will be switching from desktop to exclusively using a laptop. Could I get by with purchasing an amp now instead of a sound card, so that I can easily make the transition from desktop to laptop? Thanks.




You are trying to force an answer that you want to hear, but wouldn't be right. If you want the DT990, it needs to be properly powered, period. Budget for a good desktop amp. If you aren't going to do that, you shouldn't be buying them.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





kiab42 said:


> After much searching around I've come to the conclusion that the Beyerdynamic DT990 + FiiO E10 DAC will be a good combination for my PC gaming needs. Does this sound like a reasonable purchase or do any of you feel that I could spend my money on something better? I've also looked at the FiiO E9K as suggested by this guide, but I was refered to the E10 by someone else and was drawn to the price. I know it's only a $35 dollar difference, but if there isn't too big of a difference then why not? I'm new to the audiophile world by the way, so any suggestions are very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


 
  Skip the Beyer and get the X1...Awesome for gaming....and relatively easy to power.


----------



## Evshrug

currawong said:


> That's a thought actually. I could then use one with speakers in my living room. So far I might go for one of the gaming units though.
> 
> Thanks for that. I don't know why I didn't think to look for third party adaptors.




Hi Currawong.
This is the audio dongle I've been using with my Xbox 360 Elite since 2010:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001S5CCF2/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you have one of the newer "Slim" models (with the different harddrive and Wi-Fi built-in), you shouldn't even need an audio dongle because the Slim has an optical-out port on the back already. I second the suggestion for a receiver for convenience though... Plug everything into it via HDMI (or your other audio gear via RCA or whatever), easily switch inputs, and of course switch between powering speakers and headphone surround easily. I'm trying to test now how Dolby Headphone compares to Silent Cinema for Headphone Surround as a viable alternative, but I suppose I should warn you that I'm the oddball that preferred the Recon3D (with it's THX TruStudio Pro surround processing) over either of those two. 

DH and SC both have an echo-effect that doesn't seem like a natural way to position audio, THX did not and I was truly impressed while gaming and watching movies (read my review linked in my signature, recommended tweaks are also linked from that review to help owners). The way the Recon3D handled back/front panning was particularly evident in the first campaign cutscene of Halo: Reach, where a warthog and two helicopters woosh from behind to front of your perspective... Very cool. I haven't tested this same scene yet with my DSS (just got it), but I was immediately annoyed that the echos were back... I'm giving it time to grow on me though, and it DOES sound "surround."

I doubt you need an explanation at this point, but I also tried to break down headphone surround and provide examples in my "If I knew then..." thread linked in my signature. I intend to expand that help thread, but I've been kinda... inactive? Lazy? Uninspired? since starting my job at Bruegger's bagels. I ought to keep "blogging" there though.
-----





kiab42 said:


> So, currently you don't have a stand alone amp? For someone like me who is not very familiar with higher quality audio would the 990s and a good sound card impress me? Also, now that I think of it, in about a year I will be switching from desktop to exclusively using a laptop. Could I get by with purchasing an amp now instead of a sound card, so that I can easily make the transition from desktop to laptop? Thanks.



Hmm... Well, if you got the Xonar DX, that has DH and a decent built-in amp, not too expensive either, but that's an internal soundcard that won't be usable with most laptops. The USB DAC + surround processor units I know of are: Asus Xonar U3, Creative X-Fi Go! Pro (or the older but apparently better Go! Live model), and Creative Recon3D USB. They are decent but a step-down in power and quality compared to a soundcard, so you would need an external amp to add to your chain. The Creative Recon3D USB has the distinction of also being designed to work with consoles via Optical, and IMO had pretty good quality and was hiss-free, but it's biggest weakness was a built-in amp of average power. Quality and soundstage was MUCH improved when I plugged the headphone out jack into a Tube amp, although my much-easier-to-power/drive AD700 didn't need an extra amp to sound pretty great straight out from the Recon3D. 

I wonder if the new AD900x (which should also be easy to drive) wouldn't also be a great match... Keep in mind Asians typically have wider heads than those of European descent, for me I bent the headband to make it narrower and strung a rubber-band between the "wings" to increase comfort. My AD700 were much lighter than the Q701, and of course the headband was more gentle, so in some ways the AD700 was more comfortable long-term. The new pads look different (more plush), maybe they'll help the earcup sit flush more easily against the head without bending the headband "bars" much. Of course, an amp will still improve these a little, but not as obviously as the top three in the DT series.


----------



## calpis

@Ev
  I've never directly compared SC and DH but when I made the switch, DH felt less artificial and more natural to me than SC. I've said this before but I never found a setting in SC that felt "right". My yamaha was a little bit older than the ones I've seen talked about here though and had less SC presets.
   
  @Vader2k
  A TS plug doesn't have to be directly connected into the xbox controller for it to work, as long as a mono adapter is somewhere along the chain of cables you'll have no problem with the xbox getting audio from your mic. I've had a mic connected to a mono-stereo adapter then to a stereo 2.5mm-3.5mm adapter (for cell phones) and it worked fine. I dunno, it's weird, but I used that setup and other cable/adapter variations for about 2 years before I ended up just buying a mixamp and I had not issues whatsoever during that time.


----------



## Evshrug

Calpis,
As I haven't compared them side-by-side, the jury's still out. Mostly I'm just annoyed at the return of the echo. I did notice that I can plug my DSS into my computer's optical-out though! I get sound, but I don't have anything configured yet, cuz inbetween my posts tonight I've been putting a fresh install of Win 8 Pro onto my computer... I still have to learn how to use windows since Win 2000. I'm also inserting a nVidia GTX 660 and installing Dishonored, Skyrim, and Mass Effect 3 tonight, dunno in what order but WHOOO MAN I'm having some fun tonight! After my computer is done installing like 38 important updates...


----------



## tmaxx123

How has everyone been?
   
  I haven't checked in recently, but I have REALLY fallen in love with the mmx 300's with the gel ear pad add on. To me, the gel pads are almost a "necessary" upgrade, now that I know how big of a difference they make. Like MLE was said a few pages back in the thread, "a price can't be put on comfort." The velour is soft to the touch, but the clamp force still is a little much after awhile. Gel FTW.
   
  I'm a huge bass head, and the new pads seal off the headset VERY well. Frequency response is extended on both ends of the sound spectrum. Low bass notes sound and "feel" lower. If this is what the mmx/dt770 has to offer, it makes me curious how good the dt990 sounds.
   
  With the velour pads on the mmx's, my sennheiser ie8's still sounded a little better to me. But, now my mmx's are getting alot more attention


----------



## Evshrug

Hey man, I've been alright 
Doesn't the DT770/MMX 300 have "more" bass than the DT990? I've recently read that wrapping the outer edge of the AD700's pads seals in the bass and makes them MUCH MORE BASSY, but unfortunately I can't test this cuz I just recently sold them and my Recon3D USB to a fellow Head-Fi'er who has unfortunately stopped communication... I kinda miss both units. Still, I'm enjoying my Q701's, testing out a DSS, and my plan when putting the stuff up for sale was to eventually get an internal sound card for my PC.
Edit: he did pay me, I just haven't heard from him since the USPS tracking number indicated that it was delivered. Either he's buried in med-school or in some kind of audio-nirvana stupor, lol.

I'm about to enjoy some of my first windows gaming in about 15 years... Kinda excited. But I'm being a good boy and installing system updates and the drivers first. Aaaaaaaargh so many updates after the DVD install!


----------



## jonathan1107

What about the TRITTON WARHEAD headset?
   
  I haven't seen it in the Headset reviewed... Know anything about them?


----------



## Evshrug

Sort version, no.

Search results in this thread on the Warhead vvv


evshrug said:


> I saw two reviews that the warhead and detonator headsets were disappointing, and decided they weren't worth looking into more. Also, figure in the fact that out of your ~$70, a good portion of that budget on a wireless headset goes to a battery, wireless receiver, cheap internal DAC and amp, and that there is more transmission loss and signal compression for any wireless connection... and consider how much further your money could go.
> 
> When I game with my Xbox and either the Q701 or AD700, there is one wire (the headphone wire) going from me to the Recon3D processor next to my screen (a computer monitor for now), and then I have a lapel mic plugged into my wireless Xbox controller. Easy peasy. It's even Better when I have my Recon3D outputting into my Receiver, because I can use the remote to adjust volume control instead of getting up.







evshrug said:


> Well, such products exist because there is a demand. I imagine it sounds _pretty_ decent, and for some "truly wireless" headphones they're fine to trade a little sound quality. But for $279!!! You can hear some sweet sound for 280 bones! And I'm pretty certain, hear good headphones at that level, one wire between the TV and you will seem like you've paid such a bargain for such magic... I mean really, what is the benefit of an integrated mic (where you're screwed if it happens not to work well)?







mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I checked AVS once all this was talked about. The Warheads look like a flop, sound quality-wise. Too bad.







chicolom said:


> Meh.
> 
> At least their Warheads are finally coming out.  Engadget doesn't seem that impressed though:
> 
> ...


----------



## Xanatos

Can you review the AD700X?


----------



## Evshrug

Xanatos,
I don't think Mad is interested in trying because the head "wings" didn't fit him well, but I think someone else will review one of the new Audio Technica headphones and post here. Heck, if I had the money, *I'D* buy one to review, though I might go for a higher-end model this time. I had an AD700 before, it was a value giant-killer in it's day for gaming. I found one person's experiments with wrapping Saran Wrap around the outer part of the earpads to increase bass interesting, but that post was shared with me after I'd sold my AD700. I'd say either version is worth comparing against comparably priced models.


----------



## Ljanmi

Quote: 





aaronbroad said:


> I have the K702s and love them. I have owned the K701 and PC 360. The K701 is very similar sounding to K702 - both provide I think the best detail and positioning / soundstage for gaming. The PC 360 is nice, but I returned them after comparing to my K702. If you get a headphone instead of a headset, I recommend looking into modmic. The K701/2 are very comfortable to me, but some have complained that the bumps on the headband hurt. So make sure you have an option to return them if this is the case for you. (The Annies don't have the bumps so that's another option)
> Another option you might look into is Beyerdynamic's MMX 300 headset. I used the MMX 300 for some time and would still be using it but for the closed design (I needed to be able to hear my kids if they woke up after going to bed etc.)


 
   
  I have some plans to jump from MMX 300 to Q701 or Annies(I know that you dont have exact model but K701/2 is at least similar). Since it is impossible for me to try before buying I need an friendly advice from people who owned both models. How would you compare Beyer MMX 300 to AKG K70x? Mostly interested in gaming, detail, positioning, music takes a back seat as well as movies. 
   



bombaman said:


> As for the Q701 which i use right now, they are supposed to have a huuuge Soundstage even more than the T1. However i can not confirm this. I find it it to be a little further away than the dt 880 but thats it.
> 
> 
> ps: did you take a look in Zombie_x  Beyerdynamic Headphone comparison?
> ...


 

   
  Bombaman, you said that I can ask again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . I read tons of pages here and still reading, thanks for the link and replying. I see you are now listening to Q701 which is now my TOP choice beside Annies. To whom your voice is going MMX 300 or Q701? I would really appreciate if you could compare those to. After this, no more questions


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I was sent the AD700x, I'd review it. I won't, however, purchase it myself.

There's only a couple of headphones I'd be willing to buy to review, namely the X1, HE-500, K712 Pro (though I have no doubt it's the same as the K702 Anniversary)

But my funds are basically zilch, and if I get free funds for a headphone, I want to get the Sennheiser Momentum as my very easy to drive, portable use (don't expect it to be any good for gaming). I probably won't even review the Momentum. Some headphones are clearly not made for gaming. That's why I didn't review the ES7, ESW9, PX200-II, HAS700, and some othe

In other news:

I've updated the KSC35 entrywith info about the Sportapro.


----------



## Ljanmi

These 2 reviews convinced me that this is the right choice for me but then again I didn't know for www.head-fi.org .
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EktYonDY9s&list=UUA7zAvZWbqUfrVJhmvhz_sA&index=87
   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eb_yqGGaf5Y
   
   
This guy Joe Pollicino akaTRENT is not a member of www.head-fi.org ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Joe is a member here and AVS forum. But he rarely ever posts, especially now that he works for Engadget.

I have no doubt the MMX300 is stellar. It's based off the DT770 which has arguably one of the best positional cues out of any headphone I've heard.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I might have to give the MMX300 an audition one day...but I definitely have my concerns.
   
  -If it's based on the DT770, then the bass might be boomy if it's like MLE's impressions...but akaTRENT's impressions were anything but. All I know is that I want something more midrange-centric, and perhaps for a closed headset, decent isolation if I'm going to a public area.
  -$350? That's used Stax territory, easily. Especially if they expect some dedicated amplification.
   
  *glances at MLE's usual avatar change* *A MOOGLE!* *sneezes a rainbow* Urgh, gotta keep that in check. Can't be like Terra, who just runs up and hugs any Moogles she comes across (if Dissidia was any indication).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the DT770 has two flavors, bass heavy and bass light. Never know which you're gonna get, unless you get the 80ohm which is always bass heavy.

I really wanted the bass light 600ohm... but got a sloppy bass version.


----------



## slyr

what about the Philips SBCHP460, better than SHP2500?
   
SBCHP460 
   
  •Frequency response: 15 - 28 000 Hz
  •Acoustic system: closed, open
  •Magnet type: Neodymium
  •Voice coil: CCAW
  •Impedance: 32 ohm
  •Maximum power input: 500 mW
  •Sensitivity: 106 dB
  •Speaker diameter: 40 mm
  •Diaphragm: Mylar dome
   
  SHP2500
   
   •Diaphragm: Mylar dome
  •Acoustic system: closed
  •Magnet type: Ferrite
  •Voice coil: copper
  •Frequency response: 15 - 22 000 Hz
  •Impedance: 32 ohm
  •Maximum power input: 500 mW
  •Sensitivity: 106 dB
  •Speaker diameter: 40 mm


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, I wouldnt buy anything I have no need for, but I'm down to review things sent to me.

Better specs don't mean they'd be good for gaming though. There's more to sound than specs.


----------



## NamelessPFG

That, and a lot of specs get fudged already. Just look at displays with inflated dynamic contrast ratios (whereas STATIC contrast ratios are what you really need to be worried about), among other things.
   
  For instance, frequency responses. They'll give you some idea of the overall sound presentation, but far from a complete picture without knowing the soundstage, timbre, attack/decay/transient response, and other little things that contribute to what you hear in the end.
   
  And of course, there's the matter of YOUR ears and their frequency responses...it took a while before I realized that my own ears are imbalanced a bit across certain frequency ranges, no matter the headphone.


----------



## lunemi

How do I get surroundsound in games in my headphones with the X-Fi Titanium HD? (Note: that I'm a total audio noob)  (the headphones I'm using are the ath m50).


----------



## Vader2k

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> That, and a lot of specs get fudged already. Just look at displays with inflated dynamic contrast ratios (whereas STATIC contrast ratios are what you really need to be worried about), among other things.
> 
> For instance, frequency responses. They'll give you some idea of the overall sound presentation, but far from a complete picture without knowing the soundstage, timbre, attack/decay/transient response, and other little things that contribute to what you hear in the end.
> 
> And of course, there's the matter of YOUR ears and their frequency responses...*it took a while before I realized that my own ears are imbalanced a bit across certain frequency ranges, no matter the headphone.*


 
   
  ^^ This!
   
  I wasn't as aware of it before upgrading to the Annies and the Magni, but as it became more apparent and showed up in multiple configurations (different headphones, mixamp alone, laptop's headphone jack, ipod alone, even the marantz!, etc.), I came to realize that my ears were the weak link.  Thinking back on my usage of the HPXs before the right ear cup started failing made me realize I've had it for a while.
   
  I plan to get a hearing test eventually to find out just how much disparity I have between my ears, but I feel better knowing my audio equipment is at least fine.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> If I was sent the AD700x, I'd review it. I won't, however, purchase it myself.
> 
> There's only a couple of headphones I'd be willing to buy to review, namely the X1, HE-500, K712 Pro (though I have no doubt it's the same as the K702 Anniversary)
> 
> ...



Mad,
Once your job repays your credit card and eventually pays you Head-Fi money, would you consider comparing the Momentum and V-MODA M-100 side-by-side for portable music use? Or are the V-MODA just too popular and aggressive looking? Also, heard anything from Skullcandy in a while? -----





namelesspfg said:


> I might have to give the MMX300 an audition one day...but I definitely have my concerns.
> 
> -If it's based on the DT770, then the bass might be boomy if it's like MLE's impressions...but akaTRENT's impressions were anything but. All I know is that I want something more midrange-centric, and perhaps for a closed headset, decent isolation if I'm going to a public area.
> -$350? That's used Stax territory, easily. Especially if they expect some dedicated amplification.
> ...



*MOOG-*gh...
*cough* ahem. I still have yet for my DT testing to come to fruition, the guy I was going to trade gear impressions with got busy and disappeared. Another headphone worth considering for mids is AKG's midrange closed model... I think the K272 HD? I was reading a comparison thread and a few others, one thing that kept getting highlighted was the mids.
$350 is only (close) to used Stax territory if you already have the amp (which you do, and others don't), and if they find a deal as remarkable as you did (which is quite rare, right? They don't show up every week). I believe in the entire year I've known you, you only once mentioned seeing a deal almost as good as the one that you bought. I only say this because if I had enough disposable income not allocated already, I'd have a pair of Stax, but since I need a newer car and I can't quite afford one, I think I'm going to buy a moped to save on gas (work's just 2 miles away) and have backup transportation to keep my current car from wearing out too soon.



vader2k said:


> ^^ This!
> 
> I wasn't as aware of it before upgrading to the Annies and the Magni, but as it became more apparent and showed up in multiple configurations (different headphones, mixamp alone, laptop's headphone jack, ipod alone, even the marantz!, etc.), I came to realize that my ears were the weak link.  Thinking back on my usage of the HPXs before the right ear cup started failing made me realize I've had it for a while.
> 
> I plan to get a hearing test eventually to find out just how much disparity I have between my ears, but I feel better knowing my audio equipment is at least fine.




I can't handle too much bass. Freaks out my brain, I have to keep an alarmed expression from coming to my face. Then one day, like an idiot, I saw a Sony XB500 just lying around, and I had to test it.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad,
> Once your job repays your credit card and eventually pays you Head-Fi money, would you consider comparing the Momentum and V-MODA M-100 side-by-side for portable music use? Or are the V-MODA just too popular and aggressive looking? Also, heard anything from Skullcandy in a while?


 
   
  Having used both (but not for gaming because of what became obvious reasons to me), I would say these are definitely fun, but the detail and soundstage was what you would expect from closed, bass-emphasized cans. There was just no depth, in particular with the M100 which I would definitely classify as a basshead can.
   
  MLE, on a somewhat related note, I'd be willing to send you my SRH940 to be added to your review. Yes, I know you aren't a fan of closed cans, but these are kinda known for their directional cues and detail. If you're interested, let me know.


----------



## Evshrug

Rogue geek,
I'm aware, I was suggesting on the basis of a portable music headphone


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Rogue geek,
> I'm aware, I was suggesting on the basis of a portable music headphone


 
   
  Right on, right on. That's my bad.


----------



## BigEarsMan

Help? 
   
  Are the DT880s a considerable upgrade from the AX720? Im not hardcore fps gamer and not exactly a basshead, but still trying to get that nice immersive sound without overdoing it with bass. DT880 seems like the best choice but are there any better alternatives?


----------



## Evshrug

Bigearsman,
Yes, the DT880 will be a substantial upgrade in immersion, frequency reproduction, SQ fidelity, soundstage, and wearing comfort from the AX720. There are indeed many other options worth looking at, like the AKG Q701 I have, Sennheiser's top models, the HiFiman HE-400, and more, but the DT880 is a top performer and not a bad choice at all  You will also need to buy an amp, even if you use the AX720's base station to continue processing Dolby headphone surround.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Roguegeek, sounds good. Maybe later as I'm about to be saturated with headphones, lol.

Evs, got the Plyr 1 a few days ago, but I can't comment on it until Skullcandy gives me the go ahead. Even uploaded an unboxing, lol. Private for now.

As for the M100, I'm not interested in Vmodas. Their looks are a bit gaudy for my taste. I like the classy styling of the Momentums. Not that I wouldn't try the M100 if they were sent to me. I'm sure they sound good.




bigearsman said:


> Help?
> 
> Are the DT880s a considerable upgrade from the AX720? Im not hardcore fps gamer and not exactly a basshead, but still trying to get that nice immersive sound without overdoing it with bass. DT880 seems like the best choice but are there any better alternatives?




Absolutely. The 880s are a stellar all rounder. Not much in the $250 range as good as the 880s.


----------



## BizareLogics

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Audio Technica AD700's and the AD700x or the X Versions in general?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is an X at the end...


----------



## BizareLogics

So basically they are exactly the same just re-named? No quality difference? I'm interested in the ATH AD700's but I just wanted to know if the is its worth the extra to go for the AD700X's. .
   
  Could you also tell me if there is much difference between the 700's and PC360's.
   
  PC360s are $100 more. . but is the $100 more going to mean better audio quality? Or is it cosmetic (mic, volume control etc.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because apparently google doesn't exist for some people.



> The general AD700X sound signature is pretty much the same as the AD700 with some variation in the treble response.
> Bass is about the same, soundstage is about the same.




Difference between the PC360 and AD700 is as I have expressed on the guide. The PC360 is better balanced, a general all rounder, while the AD700 is for pure sound-whoring. I prefer the PC360, even at $100 more. The AD700 is a one trick pony. The PC360 is more enjoyable, though I don't actually like either for use outside of competitive gaming. They're both solid for hardcore gaming. For fun gaming, I'd get something else.

I honestly would rather own the SLYR than either of those. It may not be nearly as good for competitive use, but it's much more fun, and is still decent for competitive use. If competitive gaming is an absolute must, then get the PC360 if you plan on using a mic and don't want clutter.

I'm just not much of a headset guy, or a fan of headphones that only really one thing well.


----------



## BizareLogics

What do you mean by the term "fun" with headsets or headphones, is it easy on the ears, better sound stage? Link me to a topic with audio terms lol. That's why I ask these questions because I can't understand your reviews. Sorry

Why SLYR, visually they look discomforting and cheap. Don't Astro own Skullcandy?

Also what do you think about this! 
http://www.psykoaudio.com/gopsyko/


----------



## HalidePisces

bizarelogics said:


> What do you mean by the term "fun" with headsets or headphones, is it easy on the ears, better sound stage? Link me to a topic with audio terms lol. That's why I ask these questions because I can't understand your reviews. Sorry
> 
> Why SLYR, visually they look discomforting and cheap. Don't Astro own Skullcandy?
> 
> ...




http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary

http://www.head-fi.org/a/glossary-of-terms

Also, it's the other way around. Skullcandy bought out Astro a few years ago.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between the Audio Technica AD700's and the AD700x or the X Versions in general?


 
   
  You will have better luck looking here >http://www.head-fi.org/t/631998/audio-technica-updates-their-open-headphones-ad-series-ad2000x-ad1000x-ad900x-ad700x-and-ad500x/975
  Not many have heard the AD700*x* in this thread.
   
  Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> What do you mean by the term "fun" with headsets or headphones, is it easy on the ears, better sound stage? Link me to a topic with audio terms lol. That's why I ask these questions because I can't understand your reviews. Sorry


 
   
  In general:  Fun = more immersive. 
   
  Usually will also have better bass and weight so you can feel the gunshots/explosions more.  More home-theater type sound.
   
   
  Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> Also what do you think about this!
> http://www.psykoaudio.com/gopsyko/


 
   
   
  No.


----------



## lunemi

I have the X-Fi Titanium HD and I wonder what is the best settings on the equalizer, for competitive gaming(sound whoring/hearing footsteps)? Can someone send me a picture of their equalizer with the right settings?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I caved and bought the black Sennheiser Momentum off Razordog Audio for $300 (used the $50 off discount).

Couldn't resist such an elegant looking headphone, also being very easy to drive, real leather with breathable mesh inside the pads...



Also small enough to lay down with. Should hopefully be my go to when using my laptop on the go.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I caved and bought the black Sennheiser Momentum off Razordog Audio for $300 (used the $50 off discount).
> 
> Couldn't resist such an elegant looking headphone, also being very easy to drive, real leather with breathable mesh inside the pads...


 
   
  I reserve my $300 for the big, open, velour headphones. 
   
  I can't justify spending that much on something that will be used sparingly and in an environment where I can't appreciate the audio as much (portable) and where my source is bottlenecking the sound anyways.
   
   
  It's like those $500 high end portable amps people strap to their DAPs.  I would never buy those.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





lunemi said:


> I have the X-Fi Titanium HD and I wonder what is the best settings on the equalizer, for competitive gaming(sound whoring/hearing footsteps)? Can someone send me a picture of their equalizer with the right settings?


 
   
  When you use an EQ, the proper way to do it is to EQ based on your specific headphone system-and your ears. Otherwise, you'll quickly find yourself repulsed by the sound.
   
  Generally speaking, for competitive play, you'll want to lower the bass frequencies, and for cinematic play, you might want to raise them to get more of that "movie theater" feeling.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just got my Stax 407 loaner from Headamp.

Holy cow. Electrostatic headphones are the real deal.

I don't have any time to hear them today short of about 15 minutes, but...color me incredibly impressed. I can only imagine what the higher end Stax sound like.
I don't hear a LICK of sibilance, even on sibilant recordings. And it's very, very clean sounding. People said the bass was weak, but I'm not hearing. I'm hearing neutral bass. LOVELY. If I could afford one, I'd buy a Stax TODAY.

They're ugly as all hell, and the square cups don't make it like as manageable as typical circular or oval cans, but these are minor gripes. My main gripe is with the crackle I get when adjusting the cups and the pads squich a bit. It's not a nice sensation. Like I'm afraid of getting shocked, lol.


----------



## rpgman1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just got my Stax 407 loaner from Headamp.
> 
> Holy cow. Electrostatic headphones are the real deal.
> 
> ...


 
  What headphone amp did you test the Stax 407 on? Considering the price tags on Stax headphones, they must really sound great.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> So I caved and bought the black Sennheiser Momentum off Razordog Audio for $300 (used the $50 off discount).
> 
> Couldn't resist such an elegant looking headphone, also being very easy to drive, real leather with breathable mesh inside the pads...
> 
> ...




Good luck with those. As much as I enjoyed the sound, there were just too many other things wrong with them for my tastes, most notably the comfort. Is there a reason you didn't look at the MDR-1R instead? The InnerFidelity review that just came out is stellar and draws a lot of comparisons to the Momentum.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SRM-252M (came with the package, as well as a Pico DAC (though I'm using my Compass 2's dac).

Man... I mean... DAMN.

It's $1000 for the Stax + amp, so it's way out of my league... and this is basically entry level. O_O

But man, it sounds wonderful. I wouldn't get these square shaped Stax though. Not uncomfortable, but the pad crackle with slight adjustment is annoying.


----------



## ScarsHD

Hey, been looking at the guide for a few months now, made my own thread and now i'm just down to deciding between these two (see below), or if anyone has anything else to offer, shoot.
   
I'm looking for closed cans. Need them for competitive gaming(PC). If it matters, I play Counter Strike 1.6/Global offensive and Arma 2/3.
Please don't ask if I have a preference between mids/highs/other. I don't know. I know little to nothing about audio, and pretty much anything will sound better than my current headphones I am using now... Beats. (Solo HD if you're wondering but I doubt it matters)
   
*CAL! or Skullcandy Slyr?*
   
You may suggest other closed gaming cans but please don't go past the price of CAL. (~$115 CAD: Prices on Amazon.ca are higher than .com)
   
I might be using stereo instead of dolby, but probably dolby. Right now I am just using stereo but I plan on getting a USB sound card, something like Asus Xonar U3 (suggest any better ones? I would prefer to spend little money on this. Will not be getting a sound card as I might be going to LANs in the future and I can't just go there a pop open the case to change the sound card.)


----------



## Shingyboy

Hello I was wondering if you could help me out. So I do want to try out some higher quality headphones after reading a little bit about the differences between them and headsets and have read this guide a bit too. At the moment I was thinking about getting an Asus Xonar Essence STX, could you give me some recommended headphones that could be paired up with this soundcard?
   
  I play games a lot, listen to music, watch anime and movies I do it all really depending on my mood.
   
  I was originally thinking either the AKG Q701, Beyerdynamic DT880 or the Sennheiser HD650 pretty much basing it off this guide but on further research it looks like the Asus Xonar Essence STX can not drive any of these headphones anyway and that I would need a external amp? is that correct? I would like to avoid getting a amp right now to avoid bumping up costs so if I can't use any of those headphones what could you recommend me to get that would give me some good performance?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX is a powerful soundcard. Whomever said it can't drive those headphones is a liar. It's the equivalent of an E9 in power which is plenty of power.


----------



## ScarsHD

errr... Could you please reply to my post? :S


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why do you need closed? I ask because neither the CAL nor SLYR will block out external noise well. I can't answer this well since I don't have much experience with closed headphones, and especially ones that are entry level priced. Sound-wise, the CAL is a more refined headphone, but if you absolutely need a microphone attached, get the SLYR. I find the SLYR more comfy due to have cloth pads, not pleather. However, the CAL is very comfy to me.

If you're gonna play in stereo, they all sound relatively the same to me in terms of positional/competitive use, so I'm not the guy to ask. This is why I specifically stated, that I only play in Dolby Headphone/virtual surround, so my recommendations are based purely off that.


----------



## ScarsHD

Closed due to possibly going to LANs. Sounds like you're saying neither of these two would be good?
   
  If so, what should I get? :L


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm.... yeah, neither of these will isolate well... sorry to say. If you can spring for a little more, I would look into maybe a pair of DT770 Pro 80. It's on the bassy side, but oit isolates relatively well, and will sound good with minimal amping. It does require at least SOME amping, so maybe look into the Custom Pro One which is based off the 770, and has adjustments on the side that alter bass. Youi can theoretically make them sound quite balanced with the least amount of bass, or just a teeny bit of bass. I haven't heard it myself though, but it's worth looking into. They are very easy to drive (I've heard they even sound worse with some amps).

I know you're on a tight budget, but that's the cheapest I can think of.

Of course,. for stereo gaming, the M50 is pretty solid and isolates well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW guys, even the entry level Stax setup (headphone plus electrostatic amp = $1000), is END GAME level awesome. I haven't heard transparency like this until today. As clean as it sounds, it's not fatiguing or harsh in the slightest. Very neutral-ish, well balanced, and SOOOOO refined. I think the Momentum is my LAST dynamic headphone. It's so good, I might even consider giving up the LCD2 if I can spring for a legit pair of Stax that can pair up the speaker taps on my receiver. 

I still do prefer the LCD2, don't get me wrong, but the Stax is a different kind of amazing. I prefer the coloration and warmth of the LCD2 subjectively, but objectively, the Stax 407 is just glorious, while still being musical to my ears. I expected the bass to be lean. I don't get that. It sounds straight natural. Not LCD2 level awesome in bass, but super textured, and clean as hell.

That treble... how the hell can it be so clean and present, and yet not fatiguing or sibilant? I confus

For gaming, I expect it to be quite stellar competitive-wise. The LCD2 definitely has better depth and a 3d like sound in comparison (the 407 is a little more linear), but the 407 is so precise and 'correct' I expect Dolby Headphone to do well with it. We'll see soon enough.


----------



## ScarsHD

I have looked into them but yeah I guess i'll try and push my budget...They are about $100 more. Thanks for your input though!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys, even the entry level Stax setup (headphone plus electrostatic amp = $1000), is END GAME level awesome.


 
   
  Well, $1000 _should be _end game for a lot of people 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  The most transparent headphone I've heard so far was probably the HE-6 hooked up a mega amp/dac combo.  As great as it was though, it was more intimate than I'd prefer.
   
  I hear dynamics still do soundstaging better than other driver types.  I think I'd prefer a dynamic with a better soundstage over a more transparent electrostat/planar with a smaller/flatter soundstage.  Than again, I haven't heard a legit electrostat doing it's thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if I still prefered a good dynamic headphone with a big soundstage.
   
   
  There were some entry level stax there (SR-303),but I only tried them on my head to test the fit.  I think the fit might be a deal breaker.  They're more like supra-aural than circumaural, and the pads are pretty pathetic and don't do much as your ears push into the driver foam.  Not sure how long I could use them.
   
  Are their any Stax with deeper earcups (preferably round and VELOUR) apart from the ridiculous SR-007/009?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont have trouble with the fit, though it clearly isnt the best. It does feel a little awkward to wear, but its at least a 7 in comfort. Good enough.

And yeah, the soundstage at least with the 407 is medium sized and not as dimensional as the better dynamic cans I've heard, nor planars. Still, the sound quality is to die for, and perhaos Dolby Headphone will aid it, just like it does with the HE400.

I've heard the 507 is brighter, so I would honestly love the 407, which costs $500 less either way. If I sold the LCD2, I could actually somewhat afford the 407 with some entry level electrostatic amp.

Still, that's not a logical trade, as the LCD2 is more musical, and not amp sensitive at all.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I hear dynamics still do soundstaging better than other driver types.  I think I'd prefer a dynamic with a better soundstage over a more transparent electrostat/planar with a smaller/flatter soundstage.  Than again, I haven't heard a legit electrostat doing it's thing, but I wouldn't be surprised if I still prefered a good dynamic headphone with a big soundstage.
> 
> There were some entry level stax there (SR-303),but I only tried them on my head to test the fit.  I think the fit might be a deal breaker.  They're more like supra-aural than circumaural, and the pads are pretty pathetic and don't do much as your ears push into the driver foam.  Not sure how long I could use them.
> 
> Are their any Stax with deeper earcups (preferably round and VELOUR) apart from the ridiculous SR-007/009?


 
   
  It still seemed to me that my SR-Lambda spanked the _AD700_ in soundstage, of all things...but again, I've never heard the HD800, the supposed end-all be-all of headphone soundstage. I'm guessing that's your end-game model right there?
   
  As for Lambda-series fit, it seems to vary a bit. My SR-Lambda has deep enough earcups that my ears (pinnae) don't actually touch anything...but there isn't any foam in the earcups anymore, either. Or cloth, like the newer models. The SR-202 and SR-303, by contrast, had some foam in there that my ears DID touch, and it could get annoying sometimes. The higher clamping force on the newer models didn't help with that, either. And on top of this, people in the big Stax thread have discussed how the pads tend to vary in thickness between Lambda models.
   
  However, if you think Lambdas are uncomfortable, DON'T try a Gamma/Alpha. The earcups are painfully shallow to the point where they might as well be supra-aural. Then there's the SR-X line, which I haven't tried, but IS supra-aural by design. That just leaves the SR-3, SR-5, and Omega variants for round-cupped Stax that I haven't had the opportunity to judge.
   
  Finally...as much as I'd love velour pads myself, there are NO electrostatic sets in existence that come with velour pads, Stax or otherwise. Apparently, lint and dust-sensitive drivers are a bad mix. Still, there's nothing stopping you from attaching some velour or other soft material to the pads yourself, and that's exactly what the guy who sold that SR-Lambda to me did. Very comfortable stuff, even if the green cloth really stands out from the black headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've been reading about the 323s amp driving the 007 and 009 Stax and sounds good off them. I guess for around $800, this would be my best cost effective Electrostatic amp...

If I sold the LCD2 and cancelled the Momentum, I could afford the 323s and start with like a 407, and then eventually go higher end...

The possibilities...


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I'm sure Nameless could point you to where he usually spots deals... Though that might just be "the bay" or the FS forum. Still, he might have advice on what to look for and avoid. Maybe ones that could hook up straight to your Marantz speaker taps? Then you'd just need a way to send a DH signal to your receiver...
Sounds like a project. I think you like the LCD2, but I think it's on it's way out the door to make budget for a Stax setup  That said... you do strike me as valuing "fun" over "neutral rightness," in the long run a slightly colored headphone will probably be your preference. I'd probably prefer the Stax, haha, but the idea of looking like I strapped two 1990's computer speakers to my head is more than a little off-puttingly awkward.
I was actually considering a purchase close to $1k, but I was thinking more about a moped to save gas and have a transportation backup in case my car died. Also just to ride and putter around, heh.


----------



## rpgman1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've been reading about the 323s amp driving the 007 and 009 Stax and sounds good off them. I guess for around $800, this would be my best cost effective Electrostatic amp...
> 
> If I sold the LCD2 and cancelled the Momentum, I could afford the 323s and start with like a 407, and then eventually go higher end...
> 
> The possibilities...


 
  You seem to enjoy the Stax headphone and electrostatic amp. Wish I got money to get them, but I need a steady job with good pay for that since my job is on and off at irregular frequencies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trust me, I wouldnt be able to afford the Stat setup without unloading the LCD2, cancelling the Momentum, as well as other things.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol, sounds like you're already making a plan. The Momentum might be more than a looker, but I doubt it's what you really want... Unless you can take the laptop to your security job and watch movies or game in the dull night hours? Or maybe the people at the store loaning you these "grand" headphones see's something in your writing (or influence), and maybe you could become a writer or salesman for them? You do have the ability to talk and make other people excited about things


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol, sounds like you're already making a plan. The Momentum might be more than a looker, but I doubt it's what you really want... Unless you can take the laptop to your security job and watch movies or game in the dull night hours? Or maybe the people at the *store loaning you these "grand" headphones see's something in your writing (or influence)*, and maybe you could become a writer or salesman for them? You do have the ability to talk and make other people excited about things


 
  Or his wallet. Stax really has a wow factor if you come from dynamic and have never heard electrostat speaker/headphone before.
   
  True story: on one of my local mini meet, a dealer bring Stax (just the Lambda - 307) and lump them together with various mid-fi dynamic cans (beyer 880, senn 6xx and stuff); after the meet, 3 out of 5 people buy Stax 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Later on only one of them stayed with stat though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I dont mean to be so enthused, but I've been wanting to try Electrostats since I first heard about the 007. The 407 literally just blew my mind. It sounds like a stat Q701, with less of a midbass hump (more linear) and infinitely more refined upper range. Not certain on soundstage yet though.

Im possibly getting a Koss ESP950 to demo soon, and that is the cheapest point of entry in terms of buying new, though I think that getting the 323S amp will be better for me in the long run, as it's mostly universal for Stax, including working well for the Stax Omegas.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I dont mean to be so enthused, but I've been wanting to try Electrostats since I first heard about the 007. The 407 literally just blew my mind. It sounds like a stat Q701, with less of a midbass hump (more linear) and infinitely more refined upper range. Not certain on soundstage yet though.
> 
> Im possibly getting a Koss ESP950 to demo soon, and that is the cheapest point of entry in terms of buying new, though I think that getting the 323S amp will be better for me in the long run, as it's mostly universal for Stax, including working well for the Stax Omegas.


 
  Soundstage depends a lot on your source. On my lowly backup dac, the 507 stage collapse, and practically sounds like a LCD2 in term of size (no offense =p). Thing pretty much changes 180 degrees when I plug them in my megabuck dac though. Still I mostly play BF3 on my He-6 rig lol.
   
  Still they (the lambdas 307, 407, 507) have kind of a special way of soundstaging. It's not vastly wide like the 800 or the 701; nor high/deep like again the 800 and to some lesser extend the lcd3. Despite that, the lambdas do layering/positioning really well. 
   
  If you like the LCD2, chances are you will like the 950. The lambdas sound sig is similar to the 880/800/701; while the 950 is closer to the hd600/650/lcd2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I manage to sell the LCD2 and Compass 2 (could deal with just getting an ODAC/Modi as a source for now), that will give me around $1200. That is enough for a 323S, and whatever 'Stat I decide to go for. Not to mention the $300 I'll get back for the Momentum.


----------



## rpgman1

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If I manage to sell the LCD2 and Compass 2 (could deal with just getting an ODAC/Modi as a source for now), that will give me around $1200. That is enough for a 323S, and whatever 'Stat I decide to go for. Not to mention the $300 I'll get back for the Momentum.


 
  So are you going to use the Stax for gaming and music listening? That's a decent amount of money for a electrostatic headphone & electrostatic amp combo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Im looking at end game rig for now. I mean as in shifting to a purely electrostatic home setup, and hopefully moving to like an Omega 007 Mk1 as pure endgame (assuming I can find/afford it).


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes. Im looking at end game rig for now. I mean as in shifting to a purely electrostatic home setup, and hopefully moving to like an Omega 007 Mk1 as pure endgame (assuming I can find/afford it).


 
  The hard part with the Omega is actually finding a KGHVSS or a KGSS; or someone to build it for you; or building it yourself. Or just move to speakers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It still seemed to me that my SR-Lambda spanked the _AD700_ in soundstage, of all things...but again, I've never heard the HD800, the supposed end-all be-all of headphone soundstage. I'm guessing that's your end-game model right there?


 
   
  HD800 could very well be could end-game for me.  It won't happen anytime soon though.
   
   
  It's a shame about the Stax fit.  We all know it doesn't matter how good a headphone sounds if the fit is bad.
  Luckily I got to try placing several flagship dynamics on my head, and the fit for most of them was extremely comfy, HD800 included.
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I think you like the LCD2, but I think it's on it's way out the door to make budget for a Stax setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, I'd think he'd be saving over for some TH900 or something.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Lol, sounds like you're already making a plan.
> 
> The Momentum might be more than a looker, but I doubt it's what you really want... Unless you can take the laptop to your security job and watch movies or game in the dull night hours?


 
   
  MLE has simple technique for deciding whether or not to buy a headphone.  He just asks himself "_Can I_ buy it??" and if the answer is yes, then he buys.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  But seriously, there's nothing wrong with selling a headphone to try out another one.  I think it's a little quick to sell everything and go after a Stax setup though.
  I wouldn't picture that as MLE's end-game setup.  I think he would value the thicker, punchier, and fun_nier_





 sound of dynamics over the flatter clearer drivers.  I think I would.
   
   
  I stopped trying to make logical sense out of MLE's headphone purchasing path a while ago though, so I'll just let him do his thing.
    
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Personally, I would still cancel the Momentum though for the reasons I listed earlier.  I'd just rather put that $300 towards the headphone I will actually use most of the time, and not one I would use occassionally on the side.  I'd just use CALs or something for that type of use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Khaine, I wouldnt be able to afford those amps. Ive read, and it seeks like the 323S is fine even for the Omegas. Sure, its not the Blue Hawaii, but it will do for me. I'll remain blissfully ignorant, and less broke, lol. That, and I only go for pure SS amping. No tubes, ever.

I want the Omega 007 Mk. I for its bassy signature. This is probably the best 'stat for me. Its basically the closest thing to a basshead 'stat.


----------



## Evshrug

khaine1711 said:


> Or his wallet.



True story. 
The first hit's always free... Oh, hey, I got something new here that'll change your life, and a bargain at only $2,500. Of course, if you were saving your first born child for something special...




mad lust envy said:


> Yes. Im looking at end game rig for now. I mean as in shifting to a purely electrostatic home setup, and hopefully moving to like an Omega 007 Mk1 as pure endgame (assuming I can find/afford it).



Mad, you've found your next endgame headphone the entire time I've known you  Luv ya tho, man  I just think it would be awesome (and synergistic) if you could make a career out of your love for gear. Gear --> career, hahaha! It's not about the destination, it's about the journey, right? Good Luck, seriously!

Oh, and I just can't wait to see Nameless' reaction to your enthusiasm for his babies 


chicolom said:


>



Heheheh, Chico you cheeky b@574rd ;P


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Mad, you've found your next endgame headphone the entire time I've known you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  x2
   
  If I had a dollar for every time MLE has said "this will be end-game," I'd own all the flagships by now.


----------



## khaine1711

I won't be able to hear the MK1 until this Christmas at least. The Mk1 I think, is linear neutral; it's actually the mk2/mk2.5 that got a mid bass hump. And the 950 is the basshead Stax can. The koss doesn't extend as deep as the lambda (which also isn't that deep); but it has more bass impact than the Stax equivalent.
   
  According to the friend, the 007 is sort of meh without the KGSS/KGHVSS - like it literally transform once his KGSS was completed. I think now he's commissioning someone to build a KGHVSS for both the 007mk1 and his 009. A KGSS is around 2k - much cheaper than the bhse or ll; I think once you got bit by the 007 - soon you'll find a way to acquire the kgss 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  Myself, I will probably get a 009+bhse; but that must be after I have finished my speaker system. Right now I'm content, the weighty sound of dynamic (he6) and the ethereal sound of stax. As good as Stax is; I think if you got the space, go for speakers instead. Planar and electrostat speaker sound mighty fine too and really cheap to boost. Mini maggies are around 1.5k per pair used I think?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> x2
> 
> If I had a dollar for every time MLE has said "this will be end-game," I'd own all the flagships by now.




True, but I'm actually approaching legit endgame headphones! Whats next after the Omega Stax? Orpheus? Lol, not in my lifetime.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

khaine1711 said:


> I won't be able to hear the MK1 until this Christmas at least. The Mk1 I think, is linear neutral; it's actually the mk2/mk2.5 that got a mid bass hump. And the 950 is the basshead Stax can. The koss doesn't extend as deep as the lambda (which also isn't that deep); but it has more bass impact than the Stax equivalent.
> 
> According to the friend, the 007 is sort of meh without the KGSS/KGHVSS - like it literally transform once his KGSS was completed. I think now he's commissioning someone to build a KGHVSS for both the 007mk1 and his 009. A KGSS is around 2k - much cheaper than the bhse or ll; I think once you got bit by the 007 - soon you'll find a way to acquire the kgss
> 
> ...




Definitely not speaker worthy... apartments, and loudness restrictions. These walls are paper thin. 

Ive read about the 323s and 007s pairings, and people are pleased.

As for the bassy Stax, on Innerfidelity as well as here, its the 007 Mk 1 that is the bassy one... just from what im reading.


----------



## Evshrug

Much as I like mountains, summit-Fi is overkill for gaming. Honestly, I think we're talking about something else besides headphones for gaming once the headphone alone costs over $350. What is the purpose fulfilled by the headphones and speakers we're talking about now?

Btw, that huge flagship review opined that the Orpheus wasn't as breathtaking as the cheaper, modern successor, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, its not just for gaming. I could've ended at the 990s if it was just for gaming. Or better, the Annies.


----------



## Evshrug

Alright man, I'm not saying anything, I'm just sayin'


----------



## chicolom

I'm still not sure if I'd rather own _one _flagship pair or a _several _"mid-fi" pairs, like the Anniversaries/Q701s, X1s, plus something else like MA900 or AD900x or whatever.
   
  It would depend on whether one of the flagships did _everything _better than my AKGs or not.  Based on my last (very brief) listening session, I'm not sure...I would need more critical listening time before I made a decision like that.
   
  People say the HD800s need a good source/amp, and I don't really like the idea of having to upgrade my chain in an expensive way in order to take advantage of them.
   
   
  Seems like mid-fi is the best value and price/peformace ratio though.  I'm not a fan of diminishing returns.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That much is true. $250-400 is where it's at. At this point, I'm tossing money for incremental improvements. But upgraditis is a disease.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





scarshd said:


> Closed due to possibly going to LANs. Sounds like you're saying neither of these two would be good?
> 
> If so, what should I get? :L


 

 You might want to try the Ultrasone PRO 550, very comfortable closed can with good compatibility to Dolby Headphone for long LAN sessions. I know that from my own experiences. Has all features of the Higher end PRO headphones, like speed switch earpads and a very sturdy case but comes with non metallic drivers.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> You might want to try the Ultrasone PRO 550, very comfortable closed can with good compatibility to Dolby Headphone for long LAN sessions. I know that from my own experiences. Has all features of the Higher end PRO headphones, like speed switch earpads and a very sturdy case but comes with non metallic drivers.


 
  I beg to differ. They ARE very comfortable... but sound wise, the soundstage is terrible. It's only my opinion, though...


----------



## Shingyboy

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The STX is a powerful soundcard. Whomever said it can't drive those headphones is a liar. It's the equivalent of an E9 in power which is plenty of power.


 

 Oh I see, that was what I originally thought too it just seems that when I was trying to do some Google searches every now and again I would come across a post sort of being negative on only using the soundcard to power any of those headphones because it would not be "recommended" or drive it to its full potential and it sort of scared me off.
  In which case I just want to know, is there a better sound card out there than the STX?
   
  Based off my mostly gaming needs with some music and movies,what headphones would you pair up with the STX? Just out of interest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the STX? The K702 Anniversary, for sure. Though not sure that's in your budget.


----------



## roguegeek

shingyboy said:


> In which case I just want to know, is there a better sound card out there than the STX?




There absolutely are plenty, but what I think you're asking is: Is there a better sound card out there for headphone gaming?

My opinion is yes and it's the X-Fi Titanium HD. Better support for games and I prefer CMSS-3D over Dolby Headphone as I find it to be more accurate. You will need an out-board amp with them, though.


----------



## Shingyboy

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> There absolutely are plenty, but what I think you're asking is: Is there a better sound card out there for headphone gaming?
> 
> My opinion is yes and it's the X-Fi Titanium HD. Better support for games and I prefer CMSS-3D over Dolby Headphone as I find it to be more accurate. You will need an out-board amp with them, though.


 
   
  Hmm yeah for now at least I would just like to get the sound card and be able to use some headphones with it and perhaps get the whole proper setup with an amp later on when I have saved up some money. I can't wait to hear what it sounds like in comparison to what I have now which is a cheap headset with on board sound.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For the STX? The K702 Anniversary, for sure. Though not sure that's in your budget.


 

 You know what I was having major difficulty finding a retailer that sold that in the UK, then I actually managed to find one and looked at the price and thought yeah.... Probably a bit much.
   
  I would prefer to keep it in the £150-£300 range if possible, what would you say then? then again I am not sure how the translates to usd.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So using the Stax 407 for gaming.

Hooked up the Stax amp to my Marantz's headphone out. Very clean sound, and the 407 works very well with DH. Safe to say, 7.5 fun / 8.5 competitive (preliminary scoring). God tier clarity, nicely balanced sound with good energy for fun, and great positioning. Not the best for hardcore gaming, but great. 

Safe to say, based on sound alone, the 407 is a winner as an all-purpose can.


----------



## 3X0

Looks like somebody's got a case of the Stax honeymoon period. Short of the 009 (haven't heard it), it wears off.


chicolom said:


> I'm still not sure if I'd rather own _one_ flagship pair or a _several_ "mid-fi" pairs, like the Anniversaries/Q701s, X1s, plus something else like MA900 or AD900x or whatever.
> 
> It would depend on whether one of the flagships did _everything_ better than my AKGs or not.  Based on my last (very brief) listening session, I'm not sure...I would need more critical listening time before I made a decision like that.
> 
> ...



One flagship as the be-all-end-all gets boring. I've had the JH13s for 3.5 years and I'm so used to them they don't surprise me anymore unless I use something lesser for considerable periods of time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honeymoon never ended with the D7000, Annies, HE-4, HD650, HE-400, LCD2. I might always wanna go for new things, but I would've been quitehappy with any of those.


----------



## TMRaven

You do seem to permanent honeymoon with lots of things, I've learned to take most of your initial impressions as a small bit of hyperbole.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  I personally never honeymoon'd with LCD2 or HD650.
   
   
  I really think I'd like a Stax SR-007 too.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honeymoon never ended with the D7000, Annies, HE-4, HD650, HE-400, LCD2. I might always wanna go for new things, but I would've been quitehappy with any of those.


 
  One day the first post of this thread will be updated with Stax 009 + BHSE + Smyth Realiser A8 for gaming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I could never afford any of those alone, lol.

Hyperbole, when nothing outside of the Denon and AD700 has had a perfect score in a rating? All the ones I mentioned have avaraged to like an 8 or 8.5. 

A great headphone is a great headphone. I'm not a typical head-fier, fickle in what they like, then don't like. As soon as they they a new headphone, the last one is suddenly not worthwhile. That's the sort of mentality you SHOULD avoid. So because I like new headphones, and still see how amazing the older ones are, it's hyperbole? Please.

It's not like all the sudden the last headphone lost it's quality. 

I may get excited about a new product, yet I don't dismiss what I've felt was great to begin with. The AD700 was my first main headphone, yet it remains the king of competitive gaming for me, so many years later. My ears have gained enough experience to hear and understand their faults (as with any headphone), but I wouldn't ever dismiss them (or any headphone I've felt was good).

If I can personally point out my main fault, it'd be that I'm a slave to my impulses in trying new headphones. Just so happens, that I've chosen/heard consistently better and better (with a few exceptions (like the Mad Dogs, which I like but don't find to be a giant killer like people wanna lead others to believe).

As with every headphone, I'm quick to point out their faults, as well as their strengths. The only headphone I've really truly gushed about lately has been the Annie, and that's because it's almost everything anyone can ask for in a balanced headphone, IMHO. If I only had like $600 and no current gear without being able to get anything after, I'd buy the Annie with a Modi/Magni. In a heartbeat. The Annie IS the best headphone I've heard in their price range that does everything I want.

The 407 has it's faults too, but it IS an electrostatic headphone worthy of note. It certainly stacks up next to any Dynamic I've heard. I can only imagine how good the higher end ones are. It's not hyperbole to believe they'd best basically anything I've reviewed as I keep going higher and higher in the 'stat chain.

I certainly think the LCD2 is overall better for me than the 407, but to say it's clearly better is a stretch. I say its better for my preference, but the 407 is technically masterful, and I don't hear any main issues with it in it's SQ. The mids aren't as forward as the LCD2, it doesn't have the body or the bass fullness, but the treble is certainly the best I've ever heard. A product of it's electrostatic design, I bet. It does sound a bit 2 dimensional and flat, and more headphone-like than the LCD2, so it's imaging isn't near the best.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I beg to differ. They ARE very comfortable... but sound wise, the soundstage is terrible. It's only my opinion, though...


 

 Nah, these are quite close to the PRO 900 / 2900 and in regards of soundstaging. Have them all
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Have at least 7.5 points for competetive. And remeber these are closed, so the staging must be kind of limited. And btw you need to get used to the S-logic driver placement. That needs to happen in your brain and can take some hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, as much as I'm amazed by the sound of the 407, I wouldn't buy them. I don't like the pads, the shape, the looks, the comfort. It's too awkward to wear, and I'm consistently annoyed with the crackling it puts out when adjusting the cups on my head. Also worth noting that I have them fully extended, no real headroom.

The only 'stats that would replace my LCD2 would have to be circular shaped (007/009) which I obviously can't afford.

Unless the Koss ESP 950 blows me away and fits better (it at least looks like a headphone), doesn't look like I'll be going 'stat anytime soon. At least the Koss is 'affordable if I find them to be worthwhile.

I did cancel the Momentum though. Thanks to Chicolom for basically pushing further into not wanting them anymore. I really wouldn't have used them much. I DO want them, but that is more impulse than any real benefit to me. I want lots of things that wouldn't benefit me, like the M80 (I guess it's small enough and cheap enough, though not sold on it's looks), X1 (this one I could live with if it fit me right), K712 Pro (just because I want to confirm that it's the Annie in a new color).


----------



## TMRaven

Now that's the tone I like hearing!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tone? What, focusing on the negative? Lol. I would've gotten to it eventually when I post the review. 

I mean, you can ask me about any headphone, and what I don't like, I'm sure I can find something with every headphone I've loved, aside from the Annie because while haters gonna hate, that headphone is a 10/10 for me.


----------



## TMRaven

I am a negative nancy.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh yeah, as much as I'm amazed by the sound of the 407, I wouldn't buy them. I don't like the pads, the shape, the looks, the comfort. It's too awkward to wear, and I'm consistently annoyed with the crackling it puts out when adjusting the cups on my head. Also worth noting that I have them fully extended, no real headroom.
> 
> The only 'stats that would replace my LCD2 would have to be circular shaped (007/009) which I obviously can't afford.
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry to let you know even the 009s have that crackling going on 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
  It depends mostly on your head/ear size. My ears are quite big and everytime I yawn/drink water, the crackling appear. Still, once you find a comfortable fit, it's annoying but bearable to get those rare crackling.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

At the end of the day, I can live with the crackling, but it is annoying. I can't live with that odd feeling of these plasticky head rectangles strapped to my ears though, lol. It doesn't feel right. It's not uncomfortable, but not good. The pads are terrible though. Too thin. Let me not get started on the plastic they used on the housing. It is strong, but feels like it'd crack under stress. I would be more confident throwing the Slyr around than the 407, and I'm not basing that on price.

Build quality is...meh. But the headband strap... OMG, AMAZING. No doubt.

These headphones are like what $600? $550 of that must have went on sound alone, because the rest needs work.

I won't lie, if it was a dynamic headphone with good comfort and build, I'd peg it as a $800-1000 headphone. It does sound amazing.


----------



## khaine1711

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> At the end of the day, I can live with the crackling, but it is annoying. I can't live with that odd feeling of these plasticky head rectangles strapped to my ears, lol. It doesn't feel right. It's not uncomfortable, but not good. The pads are terrible though. Too thin. Let me not get started on the plastic they used on the housing. It is strong, but feels like it'd crack under stress. I would be more confident throwing the Slyr around than the 407, and I'm not basing that on price.
> 
> Build quality is...meh. But the headband strap... OMG, AMAZING. No doubt.


 
  Yea the strap is so smoth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. I think one can glue another pad, or stuff the pad to be thicker to avoid the crackling - not sure how that would do to the sound though.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> I could never afford any of those alone, lol.
> 
> Hyperbole, when nothing outside of the Denon and AD700 has had a perfect score in a rating? All the ones I mentioned have avaraged to like an 8 or 8.5.
> 
> ...




I applaud you for avoiding the collector mentality. That's a real hard thing to do around here. My problem is I haven't found anything that is great over everything, so instead I use the mentality of "use the right tool for the job." In that sense, I don't think I'll own cans that overlap with each other in terms of situation.

I know you've talked to great lengths about this already, so I'm not looking to spur up old conversation, but I don't think I'll really understand why you got rid of the Annie considering how much you loved it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's simple. I couldn't afford both the Annie and LCD2. If I could afford two headphones that cater to mostly the same things, I would've kept them.

Like you, I don't like owning two headphones that I like for basically the same reasons.

As for full sized, I'm more likely to own one fun/bassy, one balanced, and one closed/portable. Basically 3 headphones in an ideal world where I have that much disposable income. For now, I choose to settle with one stellar all rounder, possibly with a secondary.

Like I said, if I didn't have ANYTHING right now, and only had $600, the Annie would be that headphone (with an entry desktop amp/dac). It is that headophone that I consioder jack of all trades, master of none.

Fun but not as much as the LCD2/D7000, detailed, but not as much as the Stax 407, open, but not as open as the Q701/AD700, comfy, but not as comfy as the KSC75 (or KSC35 with 75's clips), etc. It's not the best at any one thing, but it does so many things well, people shopuld look into it if they believe they are a one headphone type person.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I could never afford any of those alone, lol.
> 
> Hyperbole, when nothing outside of the Denon and AD700 has had a perfect score in a rating? All the ones I mentioned have averaged to like an 8 or 8.5.
> 
> ...


 
   
  It's rare here on Head-Fi that anyone makes the distinction between "subjectively better" and "technically better", and I applaud you for that. Too many people have this weird expectation of other people having the exact same preferences they do when giving out recommendations. Especially when it concerns bass; I think that's part of the reason people tend to think Stax sets are bass-lean, even though they still have noticeably more than the AD700 on the low end. It just tends to lack some of the tactility (is that the "body" and "fullness" people here speak of?) at the same level of volume.
   
  The SR-202 and HE-400 weren't exactly my cup of tea, after all, but I could understand why people liked them and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them myself. And while the AD700 soon found itself utterly trounced, it has the advantage of being significantly cheaper and much more sensitive (read: not picky about amplification), thus making it easier to recommend to people who are into competitive gaming.
   
  And I know that feeling in wanting to try out new headphones, all too well...but my wallet is just way too thin for that. It's already a major fluke that I bought an SR-Lambda and SRD-7/SB for a mere $250, less than most of the "mid-fi" dynamic and ortho sets mentioned here (which tend to shoot up to $300-400). That doesn't include the receiver I'm using to power the transformer box, but I had one lying around otherwise unused.
   
  Also speaking of cost, that's one big reason I favor just having the one "all-rounder" set with a few secondaries for portable use. $250 was already a lot for me to spend on a headphone system, even though it's peanuts to most Head-Fi folk, and the way I look at it is that if the headphone's more expensive for being technically superior, then I EXPECT it to excel at multiple things, otherwise it's just overpriced.


----------



## 3X0

Even if a headphone is categorically flawless and technically perfect, you will get bored of it eventually if it is the only thing you have. Perhaps not in a few weeks or months, but certainly in a few years. 

That's when you realize the application should supercede the equipment and you probably need to back away from the hobby for a while.

Hm, this makes me want to sell everything but my JH13s again..

You should probably get the K702-65, appreciate how they have no weaknesses or faults from your point of view, and just appreciate the sweet gaming and music.


----------



## TMRaven

I see the term 'technically better' thrown around on head-fi too many times, and it's usually people using it as a subjective means-- not that I'm saying this is one of those moments.
   
  Technicalities are based on facts, and only something like objective graphs can convey a technicality.  I keep hearing things like 'he-400 is technically better than the hd600, it has better instrument separation, clarity and bass texture.'  'hd600 is technically better than the he-400, it's more balanced and has a larger soundstage.'  I see it thrown around for akgs, audeze phones, sennheiser-- the whole deal.
   
  It drives me up the wall!


----------



## 3X0

tmraven said:


> I see the term 'technically better' thrown around on head-fi too many times, and it's usually people using it as a subjective means-- not that I'm saying this is one of those moments.
> 
> Technicalities are based on facts, and only something like objective graphs can convey a technicality.  I keep hearing things like 'he-400 is technically better than the hd600, it has better instrument separation, clarity and bass texture.'  'hd600 is technically better than the he-400, it's more balanced and has a larger soundstage.'  I see it thrown around for akgs, audeze phones, sennheiser-- the whole deal.
> 
> It drives me up the wall!



Correct. Assertions of technical advantage much absolutely be validated with measurements, otherwise such claims are probably less credible and useful than subjective impressions.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> Nah, these are quite close to the PRO 900 / 2900 and in regards of soundstaging. Have them all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't doubt the PRO900/2900 but I haven't tried them. My distaste for the PRO 550 drew me away. I may have overreacted by saying the soundstage was "terrible" but it was definitely disappointing, however. They also lacked highs, IMO, and were quite bass heavy.
   
  They were fun cans, no doubt, but didn't fit my taste. I would give the soundstage more of a 6 than a 7.5. But then again, at the time I was used to sound whoring cans like the AD700...and now currently own the Q701. I guess open cans are my preference, especially for gaming. Which is crazy because I like closed cans for when listening to music. I had purchased the PRO 550 solely for that purpose, and was still disappointed. Maybe it WAS the S-logic driver placement that threw me off... but who knows because they are long gone, now


----------



## ScarsHD

Thoughts on Sony MDR-V6? (For competitive PC gaming)
  Possibly stereo, but probably dolby.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I don't doubt the PRO900/2900 but I haven't tried them. My distaste for the PRO 550 drew me away. I may have overreacted by saying the soundstage was "terrible" but it was definitely disappointing, however. They also lacked highs, IMO, and were quite bass heavy.
> 
> They were fun cans, no doubt, but didn't fit my taste. I would give the soundstage more of a 6 than a 7.5. But then again, at the time I was used to sound whoring cans like the AD700...and now currently own the Q701. I guess open cans are my preference, especially for gaming. Which is crazy because I like closed cans for when listening to music. I had purchased the PRO 550 solely for that purpose, and was still disappointed. Maybe it WAS the S-logic driver placement that threw me off... but who knows because they are long gone, now


 

 Ok, did some comparison session with the AKG K 702 and the Ultrasone PRO 550. Black Ops 2 MP PC. Xonar USB @ Dolby Headphone Gaming setting. The 702 wins hands down that's for sure, but the PRO 550 is a good choice for an affordable closed gaming can.


----------



## Evshrug

ScarsHD,
The famous MDR-V6 would probably fare... average. You'll probably be able to pick out a few tactical noises like footsteps if you know what to concentrate on, but DH won't help you pick out directional cues very easily, possibly just sound weird rather than giving you the sensation of surround at all. Probably much better than TV speakers or a soundbar, but not enough to create realism.


----------



## miceblue

I doubt it, but does anyone here have a JDS Labs C5 portable headphone amplifier? I really enjoy gaming with the K 701 (8-bump headband) and the C5 with its bass boost on.


----------



## jonathan1107

I'm having a hard time figuring out how surround sound works with my setup. Right now, I'm using the Astro A50 (TX amp) with my soundcard (Xonar DX). I have a SPDIF cable going from my soundcard's optical out to the TX amp optical IN...
   
  Here are my questions:

 - *In "Playback devices" must I set SPEAKERS to default (Xonar DX audio device) or should I set it to "S/PDIF Passthrough Device (Xonar DX audio device) or should I set it to "Headset Earphone" (astro device) ???*

 - In the XONAR dx panel, apart from setting the SPDIF out to Dolby Digital Live, should I also check the 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter box ???

 - And from my tests, it seems like the best configuration is to set the Default Playback device to ASUS xonar Dx speakers and set the SPDIF out to Dolby Digital Live. Because when I do this, it feels like the directionnal cues are quite like when using the 5.1 speaker setup I have in my office... (I guess using this method the Sound Card does all the work and the audio quality should be better... however when I use this config, I sometimes get weird Trebles in my sound... if I use Skype, people's voices sound like they're on helium... there's a little of that in PC games as well... kind of annoying)

 I figured my other option is to use the SPDIF out (from the Xonar dx) as a PASSTRHOUGH, which would mean that the mix amp would receive stereo sound and then convert it to surround sound (if I press the dolby button) Correct ???

 But that would defeat the purpose of using my Xonar DX processing capabilities. So I guess I'm trying to figure out why is it that when I set my Xonar DX speakers as playback device's defaults, I do get surround sound (without even having to enable the 7.1 virtual shifter checkbox) but with a slight displeasing treble effect in the headset (it sounds like playing a cheap mp3 file at 54kbps...)


----------



## Evshrug

Uh... You do? Lol. I think you're it, most of the other long-time thread participants have desktop amps for their stay-home headphones. The C5 was designed especially for great performance with sensitive IEMs, while power output is usually the needed attribute for the full-sized headphones highlighted for gaming use. The AKG flagships are kinda weird... They have an intermediate amount of impedance and dampening factor, yet their lower sensitivity means they benefit more than usual from a larger supply of current.

I'm actually surprised the C5 is only rated at 14 hours battery life, since the E12 is more powerful yet is rated for 12 hours. Then again, the E12 has a bigger battery, and it may carry juice for less time than 12 hours. Both are fine with the AKGs, but the C5 may be a little underpowered for some of the more demanding headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> I'm having a hard time figuring out how surround sound works with my setup. Right now, I'm using the Astro A50 (TX amp) with my soundcard (Xonar DX). I have a SPDIF cable going from my soundcard's optical out to the TX amp optical IN...
> 
> Here are my questions:
> 
> ...




You wouldn't want to process Dolby Headphone in both the soundcard and your TX amp. DH causes a little distortion to create the directionality, that helium effect you describe may be from double-processing. You should be able to get the same 5.1 speakers feeling straight from the Xonar without using the TX amp to process a 5.1 Dolby Digital Live signal.

I don't have the card or screen in front of me now to figure out how it should be set up, but NamelessPFG (or PurpleAngel) is the right person to ask. Your setup is a little more tricky because you have that wireless dongle that does/can do it's own surround processing (not sure if it would leave a 2 channel signal alone, even if DH had already been applied once already). You will also be experiencing artifacts from the wireless compression, so take that into account.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Uh... You do? Lol. I think you're it, most of the other long-time thread participants have desktop amps for their stay-home headphones. The C5 was designed especially for great performance with sensitive IEMs, while power output is usually the needed attribute for the full-sized headphones highlighted for gaming use. The AKG flagships are kinda weird... They have an intermediate amount of impedance and dampening factor, yet their lower sensitivity means they benefit more than usual from a larger supply of current.
> 
> I'm actually surprised the C5 is only rated at 14 hours battery life, since the E12 is more powerful yet is rated for 12 hours. Then again, the E12 has a bigger battery, and it may carry juice for less time than 12 hours. Both are fine with the AKGs, but the C5 may be a little underpowered for some of the more demanding headphones.


 
  I'm the 3rd person to say the bass boost of the C5 pairs well with the newer K 701, so I'm not completely crazy. One person thought they were hearing the Anniversary K 702's with the bass boost on, and with the Anniversary K 702:
  Quote: 





> *Bass*: Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The Annie presents bass quite well. You can consider it slightly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. There were times where I found them to have more bass than even the HE-400. Overall, it certainly does not, but make no mistake, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.
> 
> What it improves over the Q701 is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the Annie WILL impress bass-wise. Make no mistake. I always found the Q701 and especially the old K701 to be slightly below neutral, bass-wise. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the Annie. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here.
> 
> ...


 
  I haven't heard the Anniversary K 702's yet, but the description of its sound compared to the Q 701 (newer K 701) sounds similar with the C5's bass boost. It doesn't have the same soundstage as with an O2, but other than that, sonically the C5 and O2 are pretty close. Given the headphone list in the first post, I don't think an insane amount of power is needed for the headphones. Again, does power = better? The E12 can output way more power than the C5 yet I much prefer the sound of the C5 to that of the E12. Likewise goes for Schiit Bifrost/Lyr or Asgard combos against an ODAC/O2 from what I heard at local meets with the K 701.
  Quote: 





> Now, if you’re a headphone guy, you’re thinking “Holy Schiit! 6 watts! That’ll make the magic smoke come out of my headphones! Why the hell do you need that kind of power?”


 
   
  C5's battery is just an iPod battery. It can be modded/swapped out, and it can still be used while charging.


----------



## Evshrug

Wow, seriously, I just imagined explaining everything you have going on in your setup by having a theater troup act it out with the help of a waffle. It was thrown through the air at some point and stepped on to crush flat (in which case you might as well have ordered an pancake), but I totally forgot instantly how that was at all going to explain anything. I had less than 2 hours sleep last night, it's suddenly hitting me and a lot of things don't make sense right now.

Seriously, a waffle? Would like to eat a nice crispy Belgian waffle right now.


----------



## Shingyboy

Hello again I would like to ask another question actually. AT the end of the Guide there is a section dedicated to mics that you can attach to the headphones so you can have a mic with a high quality set of headphones. However the ones listed at the end of this guide I can absolutely not find them anywhere to buy in the UK.
  In fact honestly it seems that it is quite difficult to buy anything in the UK when it comes to this guide apart from some brand names like Sennheiser etc.
   
  Can you give me some decent alternatives to something that might be available in my country?


----------



## Evshrug

miceblue said:


> I'm the 3rd person to say the bass boost of the C5 pairs well with the newer K 701, so I'm not completely crazy. One person thought they were hearing the Anniversary K 702's with the bass boost on, and with the Anniversary K 702:
> I haven't heard the Anniversary K 702's yet, but the description of its sound compared to the Q 701 (newer K 701) sounds similar with the C5's bass boost. It doesn't have the same soundstage as with an O2, but other than that, sonically the C5 and O2 are pretty close. Given the headphone list in the first post, I don't think an insane amount of power is needed for the headphones. Again, does power = better? The E12 can output way more power than the C5 yet I much prefer the sound of the C5 to that of the E12. Likewise goes for Schiit Bifrost/Lyr or Asgard combos against an ODAC/O2 from what I heard at local meets with the K 701.
> 
> [rule]C5's battery is just an iPod battery. It can be modded/swapped out, and it can still be used while charging.



What? Oh, the C5 with Annies. I didn't say it wouldn't work, I said there are a lot of headphones that have been auditioned here, and the C5 probably wouldn't be the first choice for, say, a Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser HD 650. I'm sure the C5 is fine with the AKGs. Didn't I say that?
I think the Annies are K701 65th anniversary model.
I prefer swappable batteries, if you're on the road it lets you keep going and also lets you replace a battery that doesn't hold a charge anymore. FiiO asked during development if they should have swappable batteries, or batteries that could be used during charging. Chalk that up to another design feature I lost the vote on. I don't think the E12 sounds all that great while it's charging. I don't know why it couldn't work both ways in the first place, but I guess FiiO had it's reasons (maybe lower target MSRP?).


----------



## Evshrug

shingyboy said:


> Hello again I would like to ask another question actually. AT the end of the Guide there is a section dedicated to mics that you can attach to the headphones so you can have a mic with a high quality set of headphones. However the ones listed at the end of this guide I can absolutely not find them anywhere to buy in the UK.
> In fact honestly it seems that it is quite difficult to buy anything in the UK when it comes to this guide apart from some brand names like Sennheiser etc.
> 
> Can you give me some decent alternatives to something that might be available in my country?



You don't actually attach the mics to the headphones. Well... You don't plug the mic's wiring into the headphones. Deal Extreme is a reseller that is based in Hong Kong and ships internationally, I don't see why they could ship here and not to the UK? For other choices, just search "lapel microphone" on Amazon or something, that's how I found mine. You can't find AKG online to ship to the UK? They're made in Austria (or china). Which models did you want?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It is the "AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition", but same difference. 
   
  I figured most people here would already have their gaming rig set-up, but I was just curious.
   
  Also, an exotic crispy waffle for you:


----------



## Evshrug

Mmmh... Waffles...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jonathan1107 said:


> I'm having a hard time figuring out how surround sound works with my setup. Right now, I'm using the Astro A50 (TX amp) with my soundcard (Xonar DX). I have a SPDIF cable going from my soundcard's optical out to the TX amp optical IN...


 
   
   
  Argh!
   
  Why are your still trying to up your A50s with your computer when you already have a Asus soundcard with Dolby Headphone?!
   
  It would be so much simpler if you ditched the A50s and just used the Xonar to get Dolby Headphone directly to a pair of headphones/headset.
   
   
  Right now your audio chain is: route sound to your Xonar card (normally this all you have to do - plug in headphones and you're DONE - but your, try to pass the signal through optical while _encoded in Dolby Digital 5.1_, send that signal to the Tx amp, decode the signal back to Dolby Headphone stereo, then finally send that signal out wirelessly to Rx inside the (mediocre and overpriced) A50s.
   
  There is only ONE correct way for the mixamp (the Tx in your case) to work, and that is feeding it Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical.  If your not doing that <  it's not working correctly.  Period.
   
   
  I thought you were selling the A50s?  I recommend just getting rid of them and buying some used/like new PC360s and then hook them up straight to the Xonar.  Simple, Done. 
  If you want to use them on consoles adding a regular mixamp will make them work.  That's still cheaper than the A50s and with better sound.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I did cancel the Momentum though. Thanks to Chicolom for basically pushing further into not wanting them anymore. I really wouldn't have used them much.


 
   





   

   
   
   Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> As for full sized, I'm more likely to own one fun/bassy, one balanced, and one closed/portable.


 
   
   
  Sounds like:  Fidelio X1, K712/Anniversary, and ???
   
  You know you want to try the X1s.  Go read Tyll's review again, then do what you gotta do...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do, but I don't wanna spend $400 on new headphones that won't fit my head. I think I'd need to demo them first. I'm pretty sure that I'd love their sound though.

BTW, adgtron (a Sennheiser refurb dealer) has some like new refurb Momentums for $208. I can swallow that price. My only gripe is that they're the brown Momentums. I want black.

I shouldn't be saying this. As far as wireless headphones go, there is something cheaper than the A50s that sound better, and also come with DH (no external headphone use though). I can't divulge anymore info until next month.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Argh!
> 
> Why are your still trying to up your A50s with your computer when you already have a Asus soundcard with Dolby Headphone?!
> 
> ...


 

 Yes I am returning the A50s, I was asking the questions I asked because I'm still using the a50s while I wait for the PC360s to arrive, and because I want to further my knowledge before they arrive... makes my life easier


----------



## Evshrug

Mad's peering inside his crystal ball... Also not saying anything, just... saying...
If there is another massive launch sale price, I'm going to have to pounce on it. I can't find my portable headphones (Sennheiser PX100) and I need a replacement... Might end up with Koss though. With one of those super-cheap headbands.

Just finished playing 3-4 hours of Halo: Reach (SWAT mode) with the TurtleBeach DSS. After several days testing/demoing, I feel pretty used to the DSS' sound signature now. I wanted to double amp with my E12 despite the fact that the power section of the DSS seems pretty robust, but I couldn't find my little interconnect cable. Next time though, I'm giving it the very best chance by hooking up my tube amp, which is particularly good at projecting a soundstage and distinct imaging.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> After several days testing/demoing, I feel pretty used to the DSS' sound signature now. I wanted to double amp with my E12 despite the fact that the power section of the DSS seems pretty robust, but I couldn't find my little interconnect cable. Next time though, I'm giving it the very best chance by hooking up my tube amp, which is particularly good at projecting a soundstage and distinct imaging.


 
   
  You mean...getting used to Dolby Heaphone?  The DSS doesn't have much of a signature.
   
  What tube amp do you have?


----------



## AxelCloris

Huzzah, Mixamp 5.8 came in yesterday. $80 off Amazon, perfect condition, still has all the plastic protective covering on it. Grabbed it the day the seller posted it. Only sad thing about it is that I'll be out of the country for the next week, and I'm not taking my consoles. Oh well, when I return, I will finally get to hear the sound through these.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> You mean...getting used to Dolby Heaphone?  The DSS doesn't have much of a signature.
> 
> What tube amp do you have?



Yeah, getting used to Dolby Headphone for surround.

You've seen pictures of my tube amp, it's the "Rock 'n Glass," Zigis' hand-built SET amp. I have a 6DJ8 Amperex Bugle Boy tube in it right now. Hint about how my acclimation to DH is coming along: I'm trying out the tube amp to help out with the surround effect, because I want it to work well so I could get a receiver with DH in the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Spending more time with the SR-407.

I don't think anyone would NOT be impressed by it. That sound... I mean, it simply blows everything away.

I just wish it wasn't so unwieldy and hideous. Sound-wise, they are just...sublime. Since people want to hear nitpicks,mine are: The sound is very, very clean, but it could use a hint of warmth. More a subjective opinion though. It is definitely NOT sterile or overly analytical. It's still musical, IMHO, just, I prefer more warmth as it's slightly dry. (ala HD650 compared to the HD600 or Annie vs Q701) 

 Also, soundstage doesn't have as much depth as the LCD2 and some of the better dynamic cans. Bass is very good for neutral, snappy and super tight, but subjectively, I'd prefer a little more. The SR-407 really sounds like a perfect Q701, with a smaller soundstage, but refinement everywhere, literally.

It's definitely better than anything I've heard so far. Hifiman HE-4, HE-400, D7000, Annie, It's that good. The LCD2 is close sound-wise, but I think the SR-407 is still a more refined headphone.


However, if I can be honest, the Annie and LCD2 are more musical, better for gaming, and more immersive. So they still haven't been dethroned for me. Still, there is no doubt, the SR-407 is SERIOUS business. The SR-407 shares the same driver and apparently the sound as the almost twice as expensive SR-507, but with cheaper materials. Not sure I'd spend an extra $500 just for better build. At least in the case of the Annie, the sound was subjectively improved and fixed whatever issues a lot of people had.

If the comfort was better, and the cups were circular like the Omegas, I think I'd go for these in a heartbeat.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Spending more time with the SR-407.
> 
> I don't think anyone would NOT be impressed by it. That sound... I mean, it simply blows everything away... If the comfort was better, and the cups were circular like the Omegas, I think I'd go for these in a heartbeat.




Ba-Dup.
Does the headphone really make some sort of refractive/reflective advantage out of the boxy shape, I wonder? Or if somebody used electrostatic tech and designed from scratch today, would the form-following-function look different?

I'm debating a test of Reach and DH again, now, with the soundstage enhancing effects of a properly powered headphone and tubes. On one hand, I have to be leaving for work 7 hours from right now. On the other hand, I took a nap from 5 to 9:20 tonight, and I'm impatient.


----------



## Evshrug

Impatience wins.


----------



## Evshrug

That's a relief. Much better imaging with the amp. What was happening was rear cues were ok, but frontal positioning was barely better than stereo. Amped (double amped), the depth was much better, and rear positioning was even more distinct. I feel like, for my ears, DH has better rear positioning cues than frontal, but the amp lent each sound more control and authority so I could get the best my DSS had to offer. I could distinctly tell when people were coming from behind and quite a few times I was saved or got the jump on someone because I was more aware than they were. I am relieved to report that the DSS will suffice to give me console surround.

If I could combine the frontal depth and imaging of THX with the rear cues of DH, possibly with better definition from a better DAC, and less echo particularly in menu screens, I think that would be the best for me. I haven't heard SC in a while to compare side-by-side.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had mentioned that most of these headphones needed extra power than the DH amps. The HE-400 is one example. Not exactly hard to drive, but it was decent at best without the aid of an external amp. Adding an amp really improved the sense of space and rear positional cues.

As for front positional cues, I don't find anything 'clearly' better than anything else. Stereo, DH, THX Tru Studio, they all sound nearly the same in projecting a front image. DH does front-left, and front-right with better distance than the others. The Recond 3D's angled front cues are actually a bit odd, as I mentioned on the guide (and Nameless had issues with as well). The 'travel' of a positional cue from the front ceneter to the front sides is too quick, and unnatural compared to DH and stereo. It's too quick to transition from say 12 o clock to 3 as an example.

Still, front cues aren't THAT important as you can see them on screen.


----------



## BizareLogics

Hey Mad Lust Envy, what would you recommend between these two?

PC360 or the DT 990 Pros.

Does the PC360's do enough to immerse? Better than normal gaming headets like a40s or trittons etc.

And will the DT 990s do enough for competitive. I'm playing games more like WoW and other MMOs, Call of duty and battlefield maybe once in awhile. Also do the DTs need much power would a sound card/Astro Mixamp pro 2013 be enough?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is balanced, if a little on the boring side. It's a decent all rounder, but if FPS gaming isn't a top priroty, I'd go for some DT880 Pros instead as the best of both worlds.

The 990 Pros are on the bassy side, and not the best in balance. It's clearly geared for bass and fun.

All the Beyers I've reviewed need some power behind them in addition to whatever gaming DH amp you use.

I think I'd honestly save up for a desktop amp to help power any headphone. Magni, E9K being the cheapest I'd go for. Magni is probably more ideal as it will drive the lower ohm cans without issues, whereas the E9K may alter the sound slightly.

However, the Essence STX has plenty of power (as much as the E9)


*
In other news:

To celebrate my 10,000+ posts, as well as things falling in place at the right time, the next coming weeks will have THREE reviews, two of them being electrostatics, and one headset.

I've basically finished the Stax-407 review, but I won't post it until it's out of my hands. I still have a whole day to further test it *


----------



## TMRaven

Hopefully you can compare the 407 and 950.  Might not even hurt to 'keep' the 407 for a day longer if it means you're able to compare them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, I went ahead and posted the review anyways. Lol.

I'm not sure when the ESP 950 will arrive, but if it's tomorrow, I may have a chance to A/B. Still, I've kept the SR-407 a day too long for the review (asked Justin).



*Stax SR-407*



Sells for $575 (Headamp)



Spoiler: Review



Before I begin, I want to thank Justin at Headamp for loaning these out to me. If it weren't for Justin and Headamp, I don't think I would have become as interested in electrostatics as I am now. To drive the SR-407, I was also sent the Stax SRM-252S electrostatic amp (NOT the amp pictured above), which is also sold on Headamp for $495. The SR-407 is the very first electrostatic headphone I've demoed. I honestly did not know what to expect. Perhaps my assumption of 'stats in general was that they were mostly on the bright side with lots of air and detail, perhaps too analytical, sterile, and dry. I didn't read much into 'stats as they were a niche product in my eyes, being too situational, too expensive, and too picky with what you can use them with. They need their own specialized amps, unlike dynamic and planar magnetic headphones which work with most traditional devices. Electrostats just seemed too restrictive for my taste. I didn't like their looks (aside from the Sennheiser Orpheus, Stax Omega 007, and 009). I can honestly say that while they are indeed a bit restrictive, electrostatics are more than worth looking into.


*Build Quality*: The Stax SR-407's build quality isn't anything special. It has an extremely retro design, made of almost all brown plastic from what I can see. The cups are rectangular and aesthetically hideous to my eyes, but there is a charm to it's non-standard looks. The adjustment sliders are decent, and hold their place very well. I'd prefer a little more freedom in it's extension, but it fits me fine at full extension. The headband strap is absolutely the best part of the 407's build, the underside covered in extremely soft and comfortable suede-like material.

The earpads are made of brown pleather (I believe). There isn't a lot of surface contact area, so it's not horribly sweat inducing as other pleather-padded headphones. It could definitely stand to be thicker, though that may alter the amazing sound quality.

The cable is flat/ribbon-like and a very decent length. Seems to be tangle proof. It's a bit wide and strap like. I'm definitely a fan of this type of cable.


*Comfort*: The Stax-407 is passable in comfort. It's pretty lightweight, but the rectangular cup design will feel awkward at first. The 407 is lightweight. The pads don't have much contact with the skin, but it's pleather, and ultimately will induce sweat. As mentioned previously, the pads are a bit thin, and with a little force, you can feel the plastic housing so close to the skin.

The headband strap is soft, and perfectly forms to one's head shape. Quite possibly the most comfortable headband 'strap' I've ever felt. Literally no force felt on the top of my head. The clamping force is moderate. The 407 feels secure on my head. Not loose, not too tight. 


*Accessories*: Bare essentials. Just the headphone. 


*Isolation/Leakage*: It's an extremely open headphone, so don't expect any privacy in or out.


*Sound*: The sound? THE SOUND. If there was one word to describe the SR-407 (and I assume any 'stat worth their grain in salt), that word would be: EFFORTLESS. What I mean is that the 407 sounds like producing sound is the easiest thing to do in the world. It's almost problematic, because you can pump up the volume to louder than bearable levels, and it will happily sing with no perceivable distortion anywhere to be found. I found myself jamming out to music and realizing that it's a bit louder than I tend to listen to with other headphones. That's how clear, grain free, smooth, and effortless the sound quality is. This is indeed the first time I have felt that there is ZERO fault in the headphone if you ever hear distortions.

The 407 is a neutral sounding headphone. Quite linear, with lots of speed, texture, quick decay, air, and instrument separation in spades. There is basically NO harhness to be found despite it not being rolled off. I've heard smoother/darker headphones that can be harsh. I don't know how the 407 does it, but there just isn't any harshness to my ears, despite a bell like clarity. My only gripe I have with the sound signature is that it's slightly dry (coming off the velvety smooth, liquid, and full bodied LCD2), and mids while blended in perfectly well with the treble and bass, doesn't sound 'forward' so it doesn't bring immediate attention to itself. It's not the fullest sounding headphone either. More neutral than natural/organic, which is the planar magnetic's strength over electrostatics, from what I've read. Still, the 407 is not sterile or too analytical, keeping a great amount of musicality and enjoyment to it's sound.

On to the different aspects of sound.


*Bass*: I expected the bass to be weak and understated. While the sub bass is noticeably lacking in comparison to the LCD2, mid bass is tight, punchy and clearly present. I can listen to EDM or Hip Hop and jam with the 407. Not 'bassy' by any means, but the bass is nicely presented. It has more body and impact than the Q701, but not as much as the K702 Anniversary. I'd say it's basically neutral. However, if the source is bassy, these will surely please anyone not a pure basshead. It can be quite fun.


*Mids*: The mids are presented very, VERY cleanly, though they aren't forward or recessed. They are blended in with the bass and treble, not bringing a lot of attention to itself. If anything, it's not romanticized in any way. It's there, it's clean, and well balanced. Again, neutral. Does this mean that it's safe? Yes. Boring? Not at all. It sounds faithful to the source. Unlike something like the Sennheiser PC360 headset which is also well balanced, but lacking in energy. Energy is definitely not one thing the 407 is lacking.


*Treble*: The treble to me is the biggest strength in the 407. It's extremely clean sounding, yet completely grain free to my ears and no harshness. Even on sibilant tracks, I didn't feel any fatigue.This may sound like hyperbole, but this is definitely the best treble I've heard on any headphone. Sparkle and smoothness bundled in one, which isn't typically found on traditional headphones. No ringing, no harshness, no fatigue. You basically have to hear it for yourself to understand what I'm talking about.


*Soundstage*: My first taste of electrostatic soundstage. It's quite open and with plenty of space between sound cues, but it's a bit two dimensional and linear in comparison to the better dynamics and planar magnetics. So it has a very good soundstage size, but not the best depth. However, it still translates very well into gaming. 


*Positioning*: The SR-407 performs very well for gaming in Dolby Headphone. The soundstage is a pretty decent size. Paired with the amazing clarity and slight dryness of the sound overall, sound cues come out very, very clearly. Soundstage depth isn't the best, but DH helps it out enough to make positional cues pretty strong.


*Clarity*: The 407 is easily one of the clearest headphones I have heard, if not the absolute clearest. Bass is quick, very textured, and tight. The mids are very well balanced and clean, though not forward in the same way the LCD2 and HD650's mids are. Treble, as mentioned earlier is the cleanest, most refined treble I've heard on any headphone to date. Smooth and sparkly at the same time, with zero grain, and no perceivable ringing to my ears. While other headphones like the K701 are emphasized for clarity, they can't compare to the overall refinement and effortlessness of the 407.


*Amping*: As stated, these demand an electrostatic amplifier. In terms of that, the SRM-252S is the cheapest 'desktop' 'stat amp in production, and to my ears drives the 407 just fine. I don't feel a lack of anything.


*Value*: Value is purely subjective, but I personally feel that for around $575 you get a headphone that stands toe to toe with the LCD2 (and exceeds it in certain areas like neutrality, and clarity). You do need to spend money on an electrostatic amp, the SRM-252S being nearly $500 itself. Considering the 407 is basically the same in sound as the more expensive SR-507 (with different pads and materials), which I've read as being on par with the HE-6 and HD800 (if not better) to certain people, this may be the best entry point into high-end audio for a price not in the realm of impossible.


*Final Impressions*: Call me an absolute believer of electrostatic headphones. So much refinement, clarity, and technical superiority over dynamics and arguably even planar magnetics. The Stax SR-407 makes a very compelling case for itself as the perfect starting point into electrostatic headphones (and possibly end). It's not perfect, with a slight dryness to the sound, wonky design, mediocre build quality, and okay comfort, but it's sound quality more than makes up for these shortcomings. For gaming, it's one of the better all-rounders on the guide, without question.

Final Scores...



Fun: 8 (Great. Though it's not as immersive as the K702 Anniversary or the more bass-oriented headphones on the guide, the 407 has it's own special sound that is fun in it's own way. Bass is very good for a neutral headphone, lagging a little behind the K702 Anniversary, but having more energy and presence than the Q701, and having a nice, fun amount of bass when it's called for.)

Competitive: 8.75 (Very Great. Though the soundstage depth isn't the best, the clarity and virtual space is so clean, it makes for a very solid and competitive gaming headphone.)

Comfort: 6.5 (Decent. It's not the most comfortable headphone, but not atrocious by any means. No pressure on top of the head is a large plus.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW guys:



http://www.amazon.com/Force-Wireless-Digital-Headphone-Surround/dp/B008L1Y7QS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1366651426&sr=8-2&keywords=x41

The X41's decoder box DOES allow for other headphone use. Getting the refurb is worth it for that ALONE.

So basically a DH amp with a free wireless headset for $70. No chat for PS3 though).

That's an awesome price.

Anyone care to be a guinea pig for this, and tell us if the DH amp is hissy or not with external headphones?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys:
> 
> 
> The X41's decoder box DOES allow for other headphone use. Getting the refurb is worth it for that ALONE.
> ...


 
   
   
  Does it even support chat for Xbox?  All I see is a single 3.5mm jack...
   
  It's a good price, but the DSS is only $30 off ebay...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a headset made for the 360, so I would believe so. I'm sure chat functions are on the headset itself, with 2.5mm cable going from the headset to the controller. That includes the voice/game balance, in the same way as the Plyr 1 and A50s.

edit: The voice/game balancing is on a cable that connects between the X41 and xbox controller. So not fully wireless if you use chat.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's a headset made for the 360, so I would believe so. I'm sure chat functions are on the headset itself, with 2.5mm cable going from the headset to the controller. That includes the voice/game balance, in the same way as the Plyr 1 and A50s.


 
   
  Oh, I meant for _third party_ headsets/headphones, like PC360 or heapdhones + mic.  I know the stock headset works with Xbox.
   
  It does looks like chat is done solely through the headset.  So if your wanting to use third party chat you still need to go with a mixamp.
   
  If you're buying strictly for the decoder box to use with _other _headphones (and won't be using the "free" Turtle Beach headset thrown in) the DSS is still a nicer deal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, lol. Definitely. I didn't expect it to be a cheaper Mixamp alternative. I expected it to be a less hissy DSS alternative, though not sure how hissy the X41's box is.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I expected it to be a less hissy DSS alternative, though not sure how hissy the X41's box is.


 
   
  Gotcha. 
   
  I would be surprised if the X41 box (wired connection) had less hiss than the DSS though.
   
  This _is_ Turtle Beach we're talking about.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Truuuue.

I'm assuming it's the same chip/amp circuit on the DSS as the X41's decoder.


----------



## catscratch

Good SR-407 review. It's always amusing to me to see people surprised at the bass that an electrostatic can do, and if the 407 is anything like the 404 I used to have, it's actually quite bass-light compared to most 'stats. The SR-007 can put out some _real_ bass. And yes, the effortlessness is one thing you will immediately notice, and over time, start to need. There is a certain grain to dynamic headphones that is generally the reason why I don't listen to dynamics anymore. The dryness and slight thinness generally seems to be a characteristic of the later Lambda-style phones, the SR-007, SR-001, and SR-X Mk3 Pro don't suffer from it.

Now that I'm gaming again and using the SR-007 I've gotten more accusations of wallhacking than I've had in all my years prior, so I guess electrostatics can do positioning right. So right, in fact, that positional mistakes in the game's sound engine sound unrealistic and still throw me off at times. The lack of harshness is also great for extended gaming sessions, where you experience no ear fatigue or ringing even after playing for 8 hours provided that you keep the volume down. And that, on 'stats, can be hard to do. Stax used to give people a leaflet with a warning label exactly for this reason.

I think you'll like the ESP950 too, just find - or make - an adapter for it to use with your Stax amp. The stock amp is hardly doing it any favors.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't have any. These were on loan, lol.

I'd kill for the 007... I want it, but I could only afford, say a 323S to power it. By then, I wouldn't be able to get the 007. XD


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'd kill for the 007...


Ironically, 007 has a license to kill...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## jonathan1107

Ok so I just got the PC360 headset, and right now I'm not very impressed... but I think I need some advice on setting it all up...
   
  The PC360s have 2x 3.5mm jacks (mic + headphone) and I plugged them both in the front panel analog inputs (mic + headphone). In my XONAR DX soundcard panel, I have tried these 2 setups:
   
  8 channel + Dolby Headphone Enabled (and the directionnal cues are perfect, but somehow the sound quality seems diminished... feels like being inside a can... the trebles are not as clean as when I'm only using 8 channels and Dolby Headphone is off)
   
  I aslo tried 8 channel only... Sound quatity is top of the line, but there isnt much difference between sounds cues that are coming from the front vs the back...
   
  I also tried 8 channels + Dolby Headphone + 7.1 shifter... Directionnal cues are even clearer than when I was just using 8 ch + dolby headphone... but the sound quality is even worst...
   
  When I was using the a50s with a optical cable running from the soundcard to the TX amp (with 8 ch + 5.1 speaker setup on the XONAR panel) everything sounded better than all of these setups...
   
  Have I missed something ? Should my headset be plugged straight to the back of the XONAR soundcard instead of the front panel? (because if I do Im not sure I'll be able to plug  in the mic right?)
  
  EDIT: I read a lot about how the Xonar DX doesn't have a built-in AMP... Is it important that I get an external AMP for the PC360 to get better sound quality or should the XONAR DX suffice? Since I'll probably be gaming on consoles at some point (with the PC 360) I guess buyin an astro mix amp would be a good idea right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it seems me and Alienware just aren't meant to be:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43qgQVGOauw[/VIDEO]

Excuse the mess, I was tossing things around just to show my problem.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So it seems me and Alienware just aren't meant to be:


 
   
  That sucks.
   
  I'm not surprised that just replacing the laptop didn't fix what the first one was doing.
   
  Googling says that other people have had the problem and you probably have to play with around with drivers/settings to fix it.
  Have you tried setting  "HDMI input" as the default recording device?  You might have to go into properties and say "listen to this device".


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't realize the HDMI input was even tied to the system. I couldn't find anything in the settings tied to it. I'll check now, and edit what I find.

I'm an idiot though, I remember having to change it to make it listen to the device on the last laptop, but nothing about the display though.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





jonathan1107 said:


> Ok so I just got the PC360 headset, and right now I'm not very impressed... but I think I need some advice on setting it all up...
> 
> 
> I aslo tried 8 channel only... Sound quatity is top of the line, but there isnt much difference between sounds cues that are coming from the front vs the back...
> ...


 
   
  I'm not an expert in PC soundcards, but I would think you should be plugging directly into the Xonar in the back.
   
  I don't know the correct settings for the Xonar and windows (as I don't game on PC), but I don't think you should be using 8 channels.
   
  I would try: _"Set Windows to 5.1 speakers (in Sound properties), set the Xonar DG control panel to Audio Channels - 6 channel, Analog Out - Headphone, and select Dolby Headphone at the bottom. If you select the Dolby Headphone entry you can change it to DH2 preset."_
   
  I assume the game itself will have to be set to Dolby 5.1 as well.
   
   
  The PC360s aren't very hard to drive and don't really need an external amp like some other headphones.  The mixamp will be what you want for consoles, but if you're not needing it anytime soon you can wait on it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm done with this nightmare. Just gonna get a blasted refund and buying a steaming pile of crap laptop that actually works.

I guess HDMI inputs on a laptop is just a dream that will never be a reality. I will never trust another Dell product.

This is really upsetting. I just wanted a laptop with an HDMI input and I'm stuck with the Alienwares as the only viable option. Ridiculous.

Trying to minimize my setup by having the laptop be my screen for my consoles, but of course, nothing is ever easy.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Trying to minimize my setup by having t*he laptop be my screen for my consoles*, but of course, nothing is ever easy.


 
   
  Do you really _like _console gaming on a _laptop screen_.  That sounds about as un-immersive as you can get. 
   
  What's the point of using high end headphones + suround sound to get an immersive audio experience if your going to cancel it out by having an un-immersive video experience by playing on a tiny 17" screen?
   
   
  I'm all about immersion in gaming.  I won't play through a single player campaign unless I can do it using good audio and a good display so I can appreciate what the developers put into the game.


----------



## DemonFox

jonathan1107 said:


> Ok so I just got the PC360 headset, and right now I'm not very impressed... but I think I need some advice on setting it all up...
> 
> The PC360s have 2x 3.5mm jacks (mic + headphone) and I plugged them both in the front panel analog inputs (mic + headphone). In my XONAR DX soundcard panel, I have tried these 2 setups:
> 
> ...




It's not you... I had both the PC350 and PC360 wasn't impressed with either one. Both were just soooooo boring. I got rid of them both in less than a week of ownership and bought the MMX300 from Beyer (at a reduced price of course) and haven't looked back. Very few actual gaming headphones are worth a damn when it comes to music but the MMX300's are basically DT770's but with better treble response. A weee bit overpriced but look online and you can score a pair for a better price. 


Thanks,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Do you really _like_ console gaming on a _laptop screen_.  That sounds about as un-immersive as you can get.
> 
> What's the point of using high end headphones + suround sound to get an immersive audio experience if your going to cancel it out by having an un-immersive video experience by playing on a tiny 17" screen?
> 
> ...




I dont always wanna be home or in my room with my 65" to play games. Portability is a must have for me, and being able to take say my PS3 to a friend's house, etc would be nice, while having my own screen.

Games sells those atrocious screen suitcases, but they are low res, too bulky, and cheap. Laptop screens are much better looking, and high res.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dont always wanna be home or in my room with my 65" to play games. Portability is a must have for me, and being able to take say my PS3 to a friend's house, etc would be nice, while having my own screen.


 
   
  Portability is a must for your _home gaming console_? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Consoles were never meant to be portable, and there isn't a whole lot that you can do to change that fact. 
   
  Unless you drive around with your PS3 in your car, you're going to have to intentionally pack everything up when you want to take your console somewhere, so you might as well intentionally bring a monitor while you're doing that.
   
  http://www.gechic.com/product_en.asp
  http://gaemspge.com/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're speaking to a dude who used to take his 23" Samsung HDTV and PS3 to WORK. 

Yes, I would much rather have a computer and screen solution.

It's not hard. PS3, power cable, HDMI and controller in a backpack (3 things) + laptop

That would take a minute to setup

That on lap monitor... interesting. If only the screens weren't crap. I'd pay some money for a 1080p one with a great screen.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





demonfox said:


> It's not you... I had both the PC350 and PC360 wasn't impressed with either one. Both were just soooooo boring. I got rid of them both in less than a week of ownership and bought the MMX300 from Beyer (at a reduced price of course) and haven't looked back. Very few actual gaming headphones are worth a damn when it comes to music but the MMX300's are basically DT770's but with better treble response. A weee bit overpriced but look online and you can score a pair for a better price.
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 

 Well to be honnest, I don't think the PC360's sound is bad. They're actually VERY precise... I'D say they're quite "neutral"... they reflect with much fidelity what the soundcard is out-putting... its just that they feel a bit more "empty" compared to the boomy a50s... But I fixed that with playing with the BASS frequency in the Xonar DX panel and adjusting the EQ... and now it sounds amazing... But I finally woke up and I now understand way more about surround sound...
   
  The fact that surround sound is ALWAYS emulated for analog stereo headsets involves a loss of quality of some sorts... because its being emulated ... not sent directly to actual 5.1 speaker setup... I know there are some true 5,1 headsets out there... but apparantly they dont sound good either...
   
  So the way I see it and I would LIKE to get you guys feedback on this statement:
  Enabling Dolby Headphone technology on Headsets (stereo headsets that is) ALWAYS involves a tiny bit of loss in sound quality right ?
  (because emulating surround sound tends to inject it with a bit of reverb... it feels as tho we're inside a tin can... the sound is not terrible but its not quite like a true 5.1 speaker setup)
   
   
  EDIT: Oh and VERY IMPORTANT: As expected the PC360 don't have any HISSING, Buzzing, High pitch sounds harassing my ears like the Astro A50s did. The Microphone usage doesn't cause static in the right ear... so that's a HUGE plus for me, which means the a50s are going back to Astro for a refund and the PC360s are staying 
  let me know what u think about that last


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're supposed to turn off the surround when not playing/watching ajything that supports it. Same reason why Mixamp users turn off DH in non-gaming needs.


----------



## AaronBroad

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> I have some plans to jump from MMX 300 to Q701 or Annies(I know that you dont have exact model but K701/2 is at least similar). Since it is impossible for me to try before buying I need an friendly advice from people who owned both models. How would you compare Beyer MMX 300 to AKG K70x? Mostly interested in gaming, detail, positioning, music takes a back seat as well as movies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Soundwise for detail and positioning, I'd give a slight edge to the K701/2 (and by extension the Q701) over the MMX 300.
   
  The MMX 300 are built like a tank, have a great mic and provide terrific sound. The MMX 300s are closed so you won't hear hardly anything outside, which for me became a problem as I wanted to be able to hear if my wife or kids needed me. If you want closed, I highly recommend the MMX 300s and I think the best gaming headset you can get. And the fact you can customize it on Beyers site is a bonus too.
   
  If you want open design like I wanted, the best in my opinion is the K702. I can wear them comfortably for hours, the sound is open, airy and full of detail. Spatial cues and details really light up with these, more so than other headphones I've used.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're supposed to turn off the surround when not playing/watching ajything that supports it. Same reason why Mixamp users turn off DH in non-gaming needs.


 

 Yes I know that. But its when I'm actually gaming that I notice the "tin can" effect... because its emulating surround sound to my pc360s...
  Are TRUE surround sound headsets that bad (the ones with multiple speakers inside the ear cups)


----------



## TMRaven

They're not 'true' surround sound headphones.  They still have multiple drivers directly over either your left and right ear.  Still stereo for the most part.


----------



## Atter

Plug directly into the sound card and use DH-1. DH-2 and 3 try to artificially boost the soundstage reducing sound quality. DH-1 sounds closest to stereo while still giving you proper surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I'm returning this laptop for yet ANOTHER M17X R4, but this time, directly from Amazon, and this time, with an Nvidia card, not AMD. I just have to wait for the refund to show up... probably next week.

I was *almost* tempted on getting those $2000 back, selling my Compass 2 and LCD2, and getting the Stax 007 and an electrostatic amp... while using my Marantz as a source until I could afford a dac. Lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, I'm returning this laptop for yet ANOTHER M17X R4, but this time, directly from Amazon, and this time, with an Nvidia card, not AMD. I just have to wait for the refund to show up... probably next week.


 
   
  I don't how see returning it for a _third _computer will fix anything.  I don't think it's a hardware issue, and I don't think you got two duds in a row.  The HDMI port is clearly accepting inputs, but just isn't displaying it properly.  It's probably a driver/graphics card setting issue. 
   
  Yes, maybe the Nvidia card will be different, but I would fiddle with the AMD to try and get it working - I wouldn't be surprised if the the Nvidia needs tweaking as well before it displays correctly.
   
   
  Personally I would ditch the Alienware and look for another solution.  Alienware = bad value and overpriced.
   
  You're throwing a lot of money at something that could (IMO) be solved cheaper.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqliE2yai2c
  http://www.destructoid.com/review-on-lap-2501m-portable-lcd-gaming-monitor-252187.phtml
   
  That thing has at least got actual OSD display controls, accepts more inputs, is a smaller profile (folds up), can run off internal battery (longer than a laptop), less heat, etc.  And it's certainly portable.
   
  But hey, its _you're_ money...


----------



## Change is Good

Yo Mad, want to add me on PSN?


----------



## chicolom

Some Fidelio X1s sold for ~$260 shipped on eBay the other day. 
   
  :\


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





atter said:


> Plug directly into the sound card and use DH-1. DH-2 and 3 try to artificially boost the soundstage reducing sound quality. DH-1 sounds closest to stereo while still giving you proper surround sound.


 

 Well, even with DH-1 setup with the PC360s and my Xonar DX, I still feel the decrease in sound quality... that feeling that all the sounds feel like the inside of a tin can... Very annoying... Somehow, when I was using the A50s outputting sound from the optical cable to the TX amp and selecting dolby digital live on the xonar DX, the surround sound was still being emulated, but didn't feel as bad... but I think that is because the A50s have lots of bass and not that much clarity...
   
  I'm guessing the PC360s are so good that I can hear all the shortcomings of the emulation quite fast. BUT: When I don't enable Dolby Headphone technology (which means I have stereo sound only with no surround sound at all, because its not being emulated) the sound is crystal clear, almost perfect... I could see why audiophiles are in love with the pc360 for all the stereo stuff... But in MAD'S review, he seems to have enjoyed the surround sound experience quite a lot with them PC360s, I have yet to find a way to make them sound "good" when using the Dolby Headphone technology...
   
  I might find a way to remove the Tin can Effect by fooling around with the EQ settings on the Xonar DX panel, or maybe by upgrading to a soundcard that does surround sound emulation better (if there is any) or maybe even use an external amp that does emulating better...
   
  I'm curious to know what Mad used for PC360s hooked up to a PC. I wonder whether he used a good soundcard, onboard audio or only used the PC360s on consoles...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, I dont play on PC, ever.


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





jonathan1107 said:


> Well, even with DH-1 setup with the PC360s and my Xonar DX, I still feel the decrease in sound quality... that feeling that all the sounds feel like the inside of a tin can... Very annoying... Somehow, when I was using the A50s outputting sound from the optical cable to the TX amp and selecting dolby digital live on the xonar DX, the surround sound was still being emulated, but didn't feel as bad... but I think that is because the A50s have lots of bass and not that much clarity...
> 
> I'm guessing the PC360s are so good that I can hear all the shortcomings of the emulation quite fast. BUT: When I don't enable Dolby Headphone technology (which means I have stereo sound only with no surround sound at all, because its not being emulated) the sound is crystal clear, almost perfect... I could see why audiophiles are in love with the pc360 for all the stereo stuff... But in MAD'S review, he seems to have enjoyed the surround sound experience quite a lot with them PC360s, I have yet to find a way to make them sound "good" when using the Dolby Headphone technology...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Umm, I dont play on PC, ever.


 

 So... what did u use with the PC360? an Astro Amp ?
   
  I'm not sure yet... but I have a feeling maybe my Xonar DX's Dolby Headphone techology is just "weak"... I'm thinking maybe I ought to get a better soundcard... and I might finally enjoy some decent virtual surround sound into my PC360s...
   
  I'm tryin to make a smart move: I might get myself a soundcard that is so good, I can use it to emulate surround sound for consoles as well... I've seen some soundcards that have so many inputs and outputs... maybe I can find a sorta "univseral" soundcard...
   
  Man this stuff is hardcore learning (definitly not something for your average joe)
   
  EDIT: I have yet to try the XONAR UNIFIED drivers and see if they make the sound quality better when using virtual surround sound on the pc360s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. The Mixamp 5.8.


----------



## BizareLogics

I have the X41 Transmitter Box. I've got a headset that is connected. There is a tiny bit of hiss, (That's with FULL volume, both 100% transmitter and Sound Properties) but I can't hear it that much. it might even be background noise somewhere not sure.
   
  I must say with these $20 headphones it sound great, apart from the fact that these can't handle much. It would be good if I had a decent pair of headphones to test with it.
   
  When I get my headphones ( Still deciding ), Im going to see what is better to use between the X41 transmitter or the Astro Mixamp Pro 5.8 2013.
   
  I'm probally just going to get the PC360's because of price difference. And maybe later when I want to upgrade then i'll go for something abit more better


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





bizarelogics said:


> I have the X41 Transmitter Box. I've got a headset that is connected. There is a tiny bit of hiss, (That's with FULL volume, both 100% transmitter and Sound Properties) but I can't hear it that much. it might even be background noise somewhere not sure.
> 
> I must say with these $20 headphones it sound great, apart from the fact that these can't handle much. It would be good if I had a decent pair of headphones to test with it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I tried my K702 Annies with the Turtle Beach PX5 transmitter (most likely the same as the X41 transmitter) and it wasn't that great. Everything sounded really dark and you are of course limited to using the volume control on the transmitter and can't use a mic unless you rig something up to your controller.
   
  Astro Mixamp 2013 blew away the transmitter when it comes to features and sound quality.


----------



## BizareLogics

With the X41 transmitter there is sound control. Just not voice/game. only with the 2.5mm talk chat cable. (With the TBX41's)
   
  I really want some K702's but where can I find a decent price, Also shipping to Australia


----------



## DCB305

Hey guys, been a while since I've been on here. Good to see the thread is growing and expanding and adding new gear MLE. Anyhow guys I'm looking to sell my PC360's and Turtle Beach DSS2 w/syba for chat on PS3 as a package for $250.00 if anyone is interested please feel free to let me know. BTW those Fidelio X1 look pretty nice, looking forward to your review on them MLE.


----------



## Evshrug

jonathan1107 said:


> I'm tryin to make a smart move: I might get myself a soundcard that is so good, I can use it to emulate surround sound for consoles as well... I've seen some soundcards that have so many inputs and outputs... maybe I can find a sorta "univseral" soundcard...



A universal soundcard would be nice... Most soundcards don't accept DDL or DTS encoded Optical Input (only PCM, so only stereo). It's some sort of licensing issue, I don't know a workaround but with a lot of research you might find one. That said... The only one I know of, works processing surround with PC (Mac or Windows via USB) and consoles (via Optical-In) is Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB. That's the *USB* external sound card. So far it was my favorite headphone surround, works and sound better to my ears than DH. You can save settings tweaks and such to the device, so that it uses those settings with a console too.

You could also do it the other way around, kinda like the way you do now. You could pipe DDL 5.1 surround out from your PC's Optical Out to pretty much any surround processor meant for consoles (I had my DSS hooked up to my frankenmac for a while), but of course any of those that use DH ought to have the same sound character as your soundcard.

Also, I don't think a different set of drivers will change how surround is processed... D H does the heavy lifting in your card


----------



## jonathan1107

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> A universal soundcard would be nice... Most soundcards don't accept DDL or DTS encoded Optical Input (only PCM, so only stereo). It's some sort of licensing issue, I don't know a workaround but with a lot of research you might find one. That said... The only one I know of, works processing surround with PC (Mac or Windows via USB) and consoles (via Optical-In) is Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB. That's the *USB* external sound card. So far it was my favorite headphone surround, works and sound better to my ears than DH. You can save settings tweaks and such to the device, so that it uses those settings with a console too.
> 
> You could also do it the other way around, kinda like the way you do now. You could pipe DDL 5.1 surround out from your PC's Optical Out to pretty much any surround processor meant for consoles (I had my DSS hooked up to my frankenmac for a while), but of course any of those that use DH ought to have the same sound character as your soundcard.
> 
> Also, I don't think a different set of drivers will change how surround is processed... D H does the heavy lifting in your card


 
  Well. I did find a few soundcards that are pretty universal... The new drivers did help a little in the end. The ones I'm using right now allow for much lower DPC latency which results in a slightly better emulation but the big difference for me came from toying with the Flexible Bass frequency setting in the driver's panel...
   
  Surprisingly, setting the bass to "full range" and setting it at about 160hz fixed it for me... Like I mentionned earlier, the Dolby Headphone technology seems to hinder sound mostly when there is too much treble and not enough bass. That is why I couldn't hear the loss in sound quality that much with the A50s, because they're quite boomy and have more bass than treble...
   
  With this realisation, I went ahead and added more base using the Flexible Bass frequency feature and whenever I activate DH-1 and compare it to DH-1 OFF, there isn't much difference anymore --- SUCCESS !!!
   
  Finally I have a decent sounding DH surround sound and although there is still a noticeable difference, it isn't as irritating as it was before.


----------



## Evshrug

Well great, sounds like a solution! Good job on troubleshooting!
I got the impression before that you were experiencing a hollow, obscured sound with bass but an obscured top end (like someone talking through a bullhorn or cupping their hands around their mouth), but I can see it this way now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tomorrow is the day I get to demo the Koss ESP 950. Im sooooooo excited. It's supposedly a warmer electrostatic, so I have a feeling its gonna come toe to toe with the LCD2 on many things... I can't wait!

Btw guys. If you plan on gtting the HE400, Headamp is donating 10% of all sales to charity for the next few days.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/660276/headamp-orders-10-donated-to-help-boston-marathon-victims-until-end-of-april


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just received jazzerdave's ESP 950. 


Man... these things feel like they're made out of styrofoam. Seriously. It weighs next to nothing and doesn't inspire any confidence in it's build quality. These definitely feel like they need to be babied. That's not too bothersome for me, as I take real good care of my cans overall. Clamp? What clamp? These are incredibly loose fitting, though not Audio Technica wing design loose. Not as much clamp as I'd like (I tend to like some sense of being secured on my head), but it's still better than the AT wings. The pads are made of the cheapest pleather like material usually found on budget headphones. At least it's thick enough to where it's not offensive in comfort, but it's definitely the kind of material I hate the most on pads. Overall, the ridiculously non-existent weight and little clamp make these are pretty decently comfortable headphone that may have been one of the MOST comfortable headphones if they used better pads.

The volume adjustment is a downright pain in the neck. Why? I have a LOT of OCD tendencies, and well, each side has it's own volume adjustment, so you'll have to match decibel level by ear. It's not too problematic, but as I tend to constantly adjust volume between songs, well, now I have to resort to making these a little louder than my listening level, and adjusting with my PC's volume control. I think just for the sake of this headphone, I'll set my Compass 2's dac to pre-amp out than line level out, just so I can use it's volume control. In the end, while I'm pretty good at setting volume properly, I would prefer a machine to match the levels and not by my own ears. Oh well. I guess that's another good reason to modify the extension cable to use with Stax amps, as FWIS, have just one master volume.

Okay, so how do they sound? To put it as simply as possible: They sound like open Mad Dogs. Seriously, that's is almost exactly what they remind me of. Doesn't have the weigh or body in the sound as the LCD2, but it is incredibly neutral sounding, with some warmth/darkness. If you like the Mad Dogs, the ESP 950 is the closest thing I've heard in terms of tonal balance. That is actually a very, very good thing. As the biggest shortcoming of the Mad Dogs is that they're closed, which means closed sounding. The move to an open design already has so many benefits over closed, which I won't discuss as you guys should know all this by now. No reason you WON'T love the ESP 950 if you like the MD.

The main worry sound-wise: How's the bass? Hmm... neutral, slightly bass light. It lacks a little presence and lacks impact. The Stax SR-407 definitely, definitely has more bass in both presence, impact, and weight. 

The mids? Sublime. You can absolutely tell the mids are are the main focus point of the ESP 950. They are beautifully present and natural sounding, without a doubt. They're not as romantic and intimate as the LCD2, but they are wonderful.

The treble: Smooth, completely non-fatiguing, and honestly probably MY personal point in preference out of anything I've heard. Not SR-407 level clear or pristine, but it's soft, and without veil. The LCD2 sounds harsher, if that can be believed. I don't think they lack treble or air, but I guess technically, they are slightly glazed over.

This is without a doubt the most neutral headphone I have ever heard, just lacking a teeny bit of body in the bass and could be slightly brighter (not an issue, as I personally prefer a warmth/dark coloration) to make it COMPLETELY neutral in my ears. It's a grand headphone from what I hear so far, but it's not a headphone that suits my specific tastes overall. This one is more of a technical headphone than a musical one, IMHO. If pure technicality and neutrality is what you want, the ESP-950 makes one hell of a case.

Is it boring? Absolutely not. It still has plenty of emotion, but it's a bit too flat sounding to me for the most part. I still do enjoy it immensely, but not as much the LCD2 or SR407 in comparison.

I know that's a bit long for a first impression, but there you have it. Oh yeah, either the Koss amp or the headphone itself retains some static noise with nothing playing, and it's a bit random. The headphone can STILL make some very slight noise right after even when unplugged. I guess I can now eat my words and say that there can definitely be an improvement over this amp, at least in terms of noise. Not something I've heard from anything else, but it could be my outlet/extension cord, etc. I'll play around and find out. 
It's absolutely not a dealbreaker, as you won't hear it when music plays.

I haven't tried them for gaming yet, but something tells me these are gonna rank quite highly for competitive use.


----------



## stevoo333

2 hours ago
stevoo333
Hi I'm wondering if you can help me? I came across a pair of vintage phones I have no clue about them or what they are worth or anything looking for any I for any information. They are Signet electret stereophones TK44 there is also a black box that I got with them it says its an adapter has a program light overload and a switch for stereophones or speakers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, the more and more I spend with the nESP 950, the more and more I'm falling in love.

First impressions DEFINITELY need to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm listening to my non-EDM, and I'm in HEAVEN.


----------



## NamelessPFG

"The vocals are.... HNNNNNNG"
   
  Way to make me wish I jumped on that $350 ESP/950 a year back, Mad Lust Envy. Now I REALLY want to audition one of those. (Damn my lack of having enough money at the right time...)
   
  If nothing else, maybe you could give my Stax setup an audition some day and give me an idea of how close or far I am from that ESP/950 experience.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In the end, I'm on an electrostatic kick, and I'm order the KingSound Emperor electrostatic.

New stat and amp for $800 total. And apparently the amp has a bass boost. Moon Audio just put them up for pre-order. Impressions at meets have been very, very positive. Couldn't resist.

Went for it as it's a brand new stat, and the cups are circular. Lol.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/648624/king-sound-emperor-new-electrostatic-headphones


----------



## 3X0

Ah, the electrostatic honeymoon phase. What I'd do to have that back...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In the end, I'm on an electrostatic kick, and I'm order the KingSound Emperor electrostatic.
> 
> New stat and amp for $800 total. And apparently the amp has a bass boost. Moon Audio just put them up for pre-order. Impressions at meets have been very, very positive. Couldn't resist.


 
   
  Hmm...
   
  "King Sound Emperor"?  Hopefully they are on the nicer end of Chinese headphones.
   
  The headband looks awful (looks like they just bent a tube and said "DONE"), but at least it has circular pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, sadly, that is the least appalling stat I've seen that isn't a flagship Stax or Orpheus. The ESP 950 and Stax Lambdas are hideous. The Emperor at least looks like a typical headphone, lol.

Stats sure do sound amazing, but they need some fashion sense.


----------



## Hellbishop

Quote: 





stevoo333 said:


> 2 hours ago
> stevoo333
> Hi I'm wondering if you can help me? I came across a pair of vintage phones I have no clue about them or what they are worth or anything looking for any I for any information. They are Signet electret stereophones TK44 there is also a black box that I got with them it says its an adapter has a program light overload and a switch for stereophones or speakers


 
   
  Your best bet is to Google for the info. I just did a search on the TK44 and ton of info popped up from different websites including some old posts from here. One bit of info i caught was that they first came out in 1983 and run differently when it comes to power requirements compared to other electrostats.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Stats sure do sound amazing, but they need some fashion sense.


 
   
  Seriously.  They are ugly.


----------



## TMRaven

I dont' really like the Emperor look, they look like an entry level toy.
   
  SR-007/009 are the only stax I like in appearance.


----------



## chicolom

At electrostat prices you should be getting something that looks like it's been through more than one design pass.
   
  Most of them look like headphones used by the military during Word War 1/2.
   
  At these prices, where's the attention to detail?  The premium materials? 
  It looks like they just slap together a rough working prototype then sell that as the _finished product._


----------



## fullmoon280

i was wondering if it was possbile to put a extension cable from monoprice to the mixamp y-adapter.if i can what type of cable would i need to carry both sound and voice chat?if it cant does anyone know of a extension cable that will work with the steel series siberia v2(the ones on ebay are to short)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> I dont' really like the Emperor look, they look like an entry level toy.
> 
> SR-007/009 are the only stax I like in appearance.




QFT. Sadly, I can't afford either of those, so I'm stuck with ugly stats that sound amazing as doable choices. Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> I dont' really like the Emperor look, they look like an entry level toy.
> 
> SR-007/009 are the only stax I like in appearance.




QFT. Sadly, I can't afford either of those, so I'm stuck with ugly stats that sound amazing as doable choices. Lol.


----------



## AaronBroad

I recently bought a set of Tritton Warhead (Halo 4 edition) as I wanted to give a fully wireless set up a try. My expectations were not high, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well I was able to hear directionally, especially front/back. I really didn't expect to say this, but _I think the Warhead has better directional and positioning sound than the Astro mixamp + AKG K702 headphone_ setup that I have been using for several years now.
   
  Huh? That's the response I have been having too. In trying to figure out why, the only reason I can come up with is that there must be something to the 7.1 processing of the Warhead. Before now, I have always dismissed the advantage of 7.1 since the Xbox only puts out a 5.1 signal. The best I can tell, the Warhead creates 7.1 simulated surround by first pre-processing the Dolby Digital 5.1 signal using Dolby Pro Logic IIx to come up with a 7.1 signal. This 7.1 signal is then processed using Dolby Headphone.
   
  In contrast, my Astro Mixamp (not the latest 2013 edition) utilizes Dolby Headphone on the DD 5.1 signal (without PLIIx pre-processing to create 7.1). I wonder if the Warhead's use of the PLIIx pre-processing adds some more emphasis to the rear channels. Whatever it is, it seems to work very well.
   
  The latest 2013 Astro Mixamp claims 7.1 - I wonder if it incorporates PLIIx processing as well. Has anyone upgraded from an older Mixamp and noticed an improvement in directional/positioning sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey ATB, to quote myself:

I've compared DH 5.1 and DH 7.1. They sound exactly the same to me. My receiver has DH 5.1. and I've compared the old Mixamp with the 5.8 which is marketed as 7.1. No difference.

I think the Warheads may have better depth than the AKGs. While the AKGs have fantastic soundstage, their depth isn't amazing. I've heard a few headphones with better depth, LCD2 to name one.

70x's strength is sheer size overall, but it's a lot of width more than depth.

Not that many headphones with amazing depth.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> At electrostat prices you should be getting something that looks like it's been through more than one design pass.
> 
> Most of them look like headphones used by the military during Word War 1/2.
> 
> ...


 
  lol just slap together hah! Your probably right i wonder how wide the sound stage and depth is on them for gaming?? Oh well let me go and find some impressions and more info on these 800.00 beuties..
   
   
   
  Koss ESP950 is a winner in my book so  much i'm about to offload my HE-500 soon along with my HD650 in which i thought i'd never even think of getting rid of.
   
  I do realise though that my search for the ultimate can is pretty much about done. A couple diy projects on the way and going  back to my 5.1 and 2.1 speaker set ups...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ESP 950 is basically a 9 for competitive use, and about a 7.5 for fun. It's incredibly linear with a little warmth, and the bass while not very impactful is full/soft sounding, so it's at least atmospheric/ambient.

That's how I feel at the moment.

I still like the SR-407's sound quality a bit more, but that's because the 407 was a bit more aggressive and lively. Other than that, the ESP 950 is an absolute monster of a headphone sound-wise.

The ESP 950's treble is non-fatiguing but clear, but not on the Stax level, which was out of this world.


----------



## TMRaven

I'd ask what you have given it for comfort but you gave AD700 a 4/10.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It doesnt shock my ears and it doesnt slide around like its the cool thing to do. I'll give it a 7.5, as it could stand to be more secure, and because it has the worst kind of pleather pads, that look like they'll flake for any reason.


----------



## TMRaven

I'll take that as a 9/10 then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sure, if you like the feeling of cheap pleather.


----------



## TMRaven

As long as it really doesn't develop sweat.


----------



## I95North

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It doesnt shock my ears and it doesnt slide around like its the cool thing to do. I'll give it a 7.5, as it could stand to be more secure, and because it has the worst kind of pleather pads, that look like they'll flake for any reason.





> You don't like the so so soft plastic earpad coverings?? I would not even call them pleather but to me they are very soft. I do have a problem with the headbands fit being loose on my nogging because i have a very slender shaped head.  A little bending of the top headband and problem solved.





> I wish i could try the stax009 but for 5 Grand  thats not ever gonna happen lol.. The volume controls on the esp950 i thought was stupid at first but after some thought i realise its made that way for a reason being that its an analog volume control for an electrostat headphone





> The overall design seems toyish but it has a liftime warranty and its sooo dammm light on your head that it made me think that wearing my HE-400/500 was more akin to going to the gym to work out with weights for my neck. lol


----------



## UnreelWorld

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You would then max out or nearly max out the 'Mixamp' on the master volume, and control the volume with the audiophile amp.
> 
> It is recommended that you get a DESKTOP amplifier, for the power they output over portable amps. It takes nearly 2x the power of an amp just to gain a few decibels in volume. This is why using a portable amp is not recommended.


 
   
 Hi, I am still somewhat confused how two amps would work together with their independent volume levels. Currently my Mixamp rx 5.8 is paired with a 32ohm AKG K550. They are mostly plenty loud but to achieve the loudness I desire, hissing does occur at the 75% volume mark with game volume at 100% (chat is not a issue or used) so if I may ask a few q's for clarification before buying a amp...
  
 1)As you stated, volume on the mixamp should be at 100%, would the hiss continue on to the amp? or would it be best to level the mixamp at just before hissing occurs?
  
 2)Would adding a portable Fiio E11 give me a noticeable quality/sound boost without hiss? I know you said portables don't quite cut it but I am not neccessarily in need of more volume (ok, maybe a lil lol) but I would like to have it loud and no hiss, can the portable E11 achieve this? I am into the rx8 portable-ness, its just fantastic! Can't believe there are other better options like this 
  
 3)I haven't bought the Fiio yet, is this the best, small, portable amp (without dac) under $150 considering I am pairing it with rx5.8 and AKG K550s?
  
 Thank you,
 riz


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The hiss is inherent in the sound regardless of volume. Whether you max out the Mixamp or have the Mixamp at low volume and raise the external amp volume, it will be the same exact hiss. Once you reach a certain volume level, it will hiss. Maxing out the Mixamp ensures you get all the bit resolution.


----------



## UnreelWorld

hmm, still confused. My mixamp rx5.8 at 75% volume exhibits zero hiss (I swear, zero  So does keeping the volume at 75% but then adding a amp create louder volume with no hiss (sorry, if i am being a idiot lol) and did you have a opinion of E11 being a worthy portable upgrade? thx!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Once you pass that specific decibel level, it will hiss, regardless of how good the external amp is. Like I said, the hiss is embedded in the Mixamp signal. So after a certain decibel level, it will start hissing.

The E11 is too weak of an amp to gain much volume past what the Mixamp gives. Remember this: FWIR, a 2db boost in volume requires double the power. So unless the amp is 2x (actually, a bit more) as power as the Mixamp maxed out, you won't gain any volume.


----------



## TMRaven

I can reference that even with something like an O2 maxed out, you won't gain much more volume over the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, people need to understand, that volume doesnt 'stack'. The attached amp HAS to be basically around multiple times the power just to gain a noticeable amount of volume boosting.

Basically, if you want 3 extra decibels, the amp has to be 3x as powerful as the Mixamp. Desktop amps like the E9 or Magni would be around 4x-5x as powerful, which is why you would gain some noticeable volume over the Mixamp.

Also, the gain on the amp is also important. My old SA-31 was stupid powerful, but the gain setting was too low for double-amping duty.


----------



## UnreelWorld

OK, cool, thx for the info... mixamp @ 32ohms is 70mwatts. I'll do some searching for high power portable amps and see what I come up with


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, people need to understand, that volume doesnt 'stack'. The attached amp HAS to be basically around multiple times the power just to gain a noticeable amount of volume boosting.

Basically, if you want 3 extra decibels, the amp has to be 3x as powerful as the Mixamp. Desktop amps like the E9 or Magni would be around 4x-5x as powerful, which is why you would gain some noticeable volume over the Mixamp.

Also, the gain on the amp is also important. My old SA-31 was stupid powerful, but the gain setting was too low for double-amping duty.

I honestly don't know what determines final volume output, but all you need to know is that a porgable amp is not gonna boost volume enough. Perhaps the E12 might.

70mw at 32ohm is quite low. To compare, the E9k has over 12x the power at that impedance.


----------



## UnreelWorld

Looks like the Fiio E12 should have enough juice:
   
  Mixamp 5.8 70mW@32Ω 
  -----------------------
  Fiio E09 900mW@32Ω 
  Fiio E12 880mW@32Ω
  Fiio E11 180 mW@32Ω 
   
  Does the integrate DAC screw things up for my Mixamp Dolby signal vs straight up amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E12 doesn't have a dac. It's an amp only. And dacs wouldnt interfere with analog inputs. o_o

If you're referring to the Mixamp's DAC, uhh, it's necessary as without it, you can't get Dolby Digital to then convert to DH.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double post


----------



## UnreelWorld

my bad on the dac on E12.. So specs wise you liked the mixamp combo with E09 desktop, the E12 seems very similar spec wise. i will go ahead and give it a go and report back the results! Thanks for help!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I said, it's not just about power. Gain is also a factor. I believe the high gain on the E9K was I THINK 12db. That really gave enough headroom for volume. Dunno what the gain on the E12 is, but it might not be as high, though I'm sure it's not low, knowing Fiio.


----------



## UnreelWorld

MadLust, here's what I found out regarding gain, your opinion please...
   
E09K Gain on=2.15V / Gain off=840mV
E12 <710 mV(Gain:high)
both state: gain 16db
   
That means less than zero to me so did that help? No reason for me to plunk down $130 for a stinker mixamp combo 
   
thx!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get the E9k or Magni. The E9K on low gain would run into problems adding extra volume to harder to drive cans, but not on high gain. The E12 has less than the E9K on low gain, so I'd skip that. The Magni has a pretty high gain at default, so thats your cheapest solution that works fine for 32ohm cans. The E9k may alter sound quality negatively as its best for 80ohm or higher.


----------



## NamelessPFG

The thing about feeding a signal into an amp is that the amp has to, more or less, filter and balance that signal to line level, and THEN amplify it, undoing anything the amp before it did, unless that amp brickwalled and clipped the signal, killing dynamic range in the process.
   
  It's not like a water-cooling loop, where you put two pumps in series and double the flow and/or pressure. Analog audio signals do not work that way.


----------



## Hente

If I have the right, the DT 880s would be the best bang for the buck bet for the best balance between immersion and competitive viability, yes?
I must ready myself for the incoming of the Oculus Rift while still being able to play competitive games on a normal monitor.


----------



## conceptionist

Hey, new on the forum. 
  I'm a gamer / hi-fi enthusiast / DJ / music producer and I'm looking good step up from my ****ty TB X31's. I'm looking for a great all around set up with a focus on gaming, but it should also work for movies, heavy music and some music production. So a good mix of analytical and fun sound with decent immersion and big soundstage. Would be super grateful for any input on this:
   
  After doing a lot of research of reading this thread and other forums and reviews, I've come to the conclusion that I want to go down the route of Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 (or maybe earlier versions are better if EQ is not needed?) + a great third party headphone + Dx mini clip-on mic.
   
  I've already got a NAD C320BEE amp (which I guess will be able to drive the headphones?) and a TC Electronic Twin Impact soundcard for music production, which I'm not sure if it's for any use in this case. It has microphone preamps and sounds great overall. Also, the NAD has EQ for low's and hi's which could render the latest 2013 mixamp EQ feature useless, if I've understood this correctly.
   
  So far, I've narrowed down the headphone choice to:
  - Beyerdynamic DT990 250 ohms - 125 USD 
  - Beyerdynamic DT880 600 ohms - 120 USD (Can my NAD really drive this beast? Would it work at all plugged into my Ipod?)
  - Sennheiser HD598 - 170 USD
  - Sennheiser HD555 modded to 595 - 90 USD
  - AKG K702 Annies - 350 USD (really sure not sure if I want to spend that much, though)
   
  I play fps, racing and role playing/adventure games (cod, bf3, forza, skyrim, mass effect). I don't professionally compete, but I'd like to be very competitive in the shooters, if that makes sense. Still, I don't want to sacrifice too much bass or immersion for soundwhoring. I'm also gonna use the headphones for movies and some bass heavy music listening / production (hiphop, techno, house, dubstep). 
   
  I'm leaning at either the DT990 or the HD598 atm. The 598's would be 50 bucks more though, but I've read Sennheisers in general pair well with the NAD C320BEE. 
   
  Thoughts?
   
  Thanks


----------



## chicolom

The sennheisers will probably underwhelm with bass heavy music.


----------



## conceptionist

I actually already got a pair of Sennheiser HD-25 II, and they're very aggressive with super heavy bass and sharp treble. Since they're closed they're excellent for DJing and listening to that kind of music. Also got a pair of Grado SR 80 for easy home listening.
   
  The one's I'm looking for now has to be more high end, refined, open and have a big soundstage with lots of detail, but without being too boring. Predominant use would be gaming, movies and some music listening, although I think that won't be very much.
   
  Maybe the sennheisers are better for that after all as they seem more natural and have bigger soundstage with more accurate positioning and detail? 
   
  Also, I have no idea how the Beyers would pair with my NAD. 
   
  Thanks
   
  Edit:
  I just read that my NAD has an headphone jack output of 220 ohm, and that this number should be as low as possible and generally lower than the ohm on the headphones. Would that make the Beyer dt990 / dt880 32 ohm version out of the question? Do you guys think the 250 ohm version could pair well? I don't want to get the 600 ohm's.
   
  The actual sound from the BAD C 320BEE headphone amp isn't fantastic by any means from what I've read, but it do pair well with Sennheisers. Sterile, a bit boring, but precise and accurate seems to be common description. I really don't want to fork out more cash for a desktop headphone amp.
   
  Threads about the NAD headphone amp:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/97118/nad-c320bee-headphone-output-question
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/54591/how-good-is-the-headphone-jack-in-nad-c320bee-stereo-integrated-amplifier


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





conceptionist said:


> I actually already got a pair of Sennheiser HD-25 II, and they're very aggressive with super heavy bass and sharp treble. Since they're closed they're excellent for DJing and listening to that kind of music. Also got a pair of Grado SR 80 for easy home listening.
> 
> The one's I'm looking for now has to be more high end, refined, open and have a big soundstage with lots of detail, but without being too boring. Predominant use would be gaming, movies and some music listening, although I think that won't be very much.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I would just use the HD-25 for your bass heavy music then, as that's pretty much what they're made for.  Headphones which are good for gaming (open, big soundstage) don't usually do well with bass heavy music.
   
  The Sennheisers have an excellent soundstage, but are a little mid-centric and boring IMO.
   
  DT990s would probably be similar to an open HD-25.  Bassy and "V" shaped.
   
  You can also look at the Q701.  More fun than the Sennheiser and very balanced.


----------



## Ljanmi

I dont know if anybody posted this news but it sure looks promising...
   
NEW - ASUS Xonar Essence STU External Sound Card and Headphones Amplifier


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> I dont know if anybody posted this news but it sure looks promising...
> 
> NEW - ASUS Xonar Essence STU External Sound Card and Headphones Amplifier


 
   
  Awesome.
   
  Just one question:  Does it decode DD 5.1 from the optical input and re-encode it out to Dolby Headphone (aka "can it work with consoles")?  Sadly, I think the answer is probably "NO," and that it's a PC only device.
   
  If it could do the above I would buy it in a heartbeat.  Anyone able to detail how the optical input typically works on the Xonars?
   
  I looked in the user manual of their flagship Asus Xonar Essence One to see how it's toslink input works, and it had this to say:
   
_     This unit only accepts two-channel LPCM digital audio (e.g. Dolby Digital 2.0).
      You cannot connect a Dolby Digital 5.1 or a DTS signal as they will not be recognized._
_     If you wish to connect a DVD or similar device, please ensure that the sound output of your player is set to two-channel PCM_.
   
  I'm guessing that the Essence STU will function the same way.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
   
 
   
   
   
  Also there is the Xonar U7 which looks like a beefier upgraded U3.  Still USB only.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna say something:

Gamers who Boost, hack, cheat online should just die. Stop ruining games for everyone else.

Nowadays anyone with special unlocks or super high scores aren't taken seriously and probably horrible in the game they do these things in.

I can't even play a decent game of MW2 because of so many damn hackers. When there aren't any in a lobby and I do extremely well, I get called a cheater/hacker. This wouldn't happen if this wasn't such a damn problem plaguing the servers.


The sad thing, is that in MW2, they don't even try to hide it. The Auto aim and radar always on hacks are blatantly obvious.

Sigh... I hate people.


----------



## Naingolann

I gave up on online shooters (actually any online game) because of that. The sad thing is that developers are now trying to place an online component in every friggin' single player game now. It's the new fad. See Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, God of War, the next Batman Arkham Origins and so on and on.
   
   
  Quote: 





ljanmi said:


> I dont know if anybody posted this news but it sure looks promising...
> 
> NEW - ASUS Xonar Essence STU External Sound Card and Headphones Amplifier


 
  Yummy. This might be a great alternative to my Fiio combo.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Also there is the Xonar U7 which looks like a beefier upgraded U3.  Still USB only.


 
   
  Alas, still not Mac compatible. I'll have to stick with my Recon3D since it works on both PC and Mac.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Like I said, it's not just about power. Gain is also a factor. I believe the high gain on the E9K was I THINK 12db. That really gave enough headroom for volume. Dunno what the gain on the E12 is, but it might not be as high, though I'm sure it's not low, knowing Fiio.



Just a data point from an E12 user, high gain is a 16 (or 17) dB boost, appreciably louder, but I use the 0 dB gain boost setting with my Q701, happily.





axelcloris said:


> Alas, still not Mac compatible. I'll have to stick with my Recon3D since it works on both PC and Mac.



Thanks for reminding me that I miss my Recon3D USB. I wish another fully-supported gaming device that worked with Mac (and consoles) would come out... I sold mine on the expectation that I could find something better for PC (mostly S:R, though I'm confident a very revealing headphone would be required to show the upgrade difference) and that I could live with SC or a cheap DSS for console play, but I don't have a new soundcard yet and I'm not entirely sure THX and SBX are the same... the ONE video comparison I found, a Tomb Raider benchmark, THX had more directional activity and depth than SBX or DH for me, though I think the author felt CMSS-3D was the winner.


Who saw the DT880 600 ohms for $120?!?!? Where was that?!


----------



## ScarsHD

Have you ever considered trying the new Zowie MASHU headset? I would like to see how it compares to CAL! and DT770s. It's pretty new, and the only place I know you can buy it right now is on http://market.esea.net/. I know headsets usually aren't that good, but, so far, zowie have been releasing good stuff and their products surely live up to their price.
   
  also, quick note, you said I should get the DT770s over CAL! for gaming, but on your review itself competitive seems to be better on CAL! than DT770s. I'd really like to know why because there's quite a difference in price.


----------



## pietcux

I went into a hacked Lobby in MW2 on PC having Level 32. After a short time I was stuck to the respawn Point. I could do all but move. Soon my whole Team was with me. Then the Lobby crashed. Good Thing was that I was Level 70 after that. But a lot of Players have reported to be resetted to Level 0 afterwards. MW2 is now nearly free of cheaters. They all moved on to newer episodes of this game.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

scarshd said:


> Have you ever considered trying the new Zowie MASHU headset? I would like to see how it compares to CAL! and DT770s. It's pretty new, and the only place I know you can buy it right now is on http://market.esea.net/
> . I know headsets usually aren't that good, but, so far, zowie have been releasing good stuff and their products surely live up to their price.
> 
> also, quick note, you said I should get the DT770s over CAL! for gaming, but on your review itself competitive seems to be better on CAL! than DT770s. I'd really like to know why because there's quite a difference in price.




As I mentioned scores shouldn't be compared unless I specifically state so with a comparison. One budget HEADPHONE can have a 7, and a higher end pair can have a 6.5, but it doesn't make the budget pair better. I take various things into account. Whether they are open or closed, price, whether they are a headset or a headphone, etc. scores are based on their OWN merits, and how I personally feel they perform based on what I just said, not how they stack up to other headphones. If it were like that, everything would score low next to something like a Q701 or Denon D7000. This is why I don't like to compare unless I feel it's justified.

The 770 is more expensive, because it has better drivers. The CAL might have a better tonal balance, but it's not as refined. The 770's soundstage also trumps the CAL's. If the bass wasn't so emphasized, the 770 would score higher. Either way, the 770 is a bigger, and better headphone overall, though it's more expensive, and for the price, it doesn't perform as well as headphone near it's price range, like the 990 Pros.

AGAIN, DO NOT COMPARE SCORES.


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





conceptionist said:


> I just read that my NAD has an headphone jack output of 220 ohm, and that this number should be as low as possible and generally lower than the ohm on the headphones. Would that make the Beyer dt990 / dt880 32 ohm version out of the question? Do you guys think the 250 ohm version could pair well? I don't want to get the 600 ohm's.
> 
> The actual sound from the BAD C 320BEE headphone amp isn't fantastic by any means from what I've read, but it do pair well with Sennheisers. Sterile, a bit boring, but precise and accurate seems to be common description. I really don't want to fork out more cash for a desktop headphone amp.
> 
> ...


 
  Sorry for bumping this, but I'd be very grateful if anyone here can chime in:
   
  I'm set on the getting the Mixamp Pro 2013, the DX mini clip on mic and I've narrowed down my choice of headphones to two options:
   
  1) *Sennheiser HD598*
  This choice would be the the most hassle-free, since I don't necessarily need an additional headphone amp to drive them. It seems like I can just hook this up straight with the Mixamp and get great results. The problem would be that they might not suit my needs for immersion, fun and bass. I've also read that they're quite bad for music production. 
   
  2) *Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 Ohm*
  This headphone seems to suit my needs (in terms of signature sound and production) better but I would need an amp to make them justice. I've already got a NAD C 320BEE integrated stereo amplifier with a headphone jack. It has a whopping 220 ohm headphone output, but reading into it, it seems to work well:
   
_"I also like the headphone jack of the C320BEE for high-impedance phones. Using Senn and Beyerdyanmic cans, the NAD beat several dedicated headphone amps I’ve tried. Then again, I seem to like the rich, warm sound of 220-ohm headphone jack impedances."_
   
*My question would then be whether this warm sound of the NAD is a good combination with the DT990 or the HD598 sound signatures?* *Would hooking up the integrated headphone jack on the NAD work the same as for a typical headphone amp? I want to be able to use a mic when gaming.*
   
  As a said earlier, I also got this great TC Electronic Impact Twin DAC soundcard I've used for music production. It comes with this dedicated software for routing so I have no idea if it would work in this stereo / gaming set up. It's fantastic either way with great mic pre-amps, 80 Ohms headphone output with a gain level range of -80 to +16 dB at 300 Ohm. Power at 40 Ohm load is 200mW and at 600 Ohm load 93mW.
  http://www.tcelectronic.com/impact-twin/tech-specs/
   
  Excuse my very limited knowledge about hifi and any misconceptions about terms and functions.
   
  Super thankful for any advice!


----------



## Chubtoad

Well my Annies finally arrived 
   
  of course, my mic hasn't, and the Asgard 2 hasn't even shipped yet (but from the looks of it it should be any day now)
   
  damnit lol
   
   
  anyways I have a question, and it could possibly be deemed newbish, but lets say that I have a monitor with input/output mic jacks on the back of it, would there be any disadvantage sound wise by plugging the Astro mixamp into the back of the monitor versus plugging directly into the console(s) itself?
   
  For theories sake lets say I have 2 consoles and a PC that I hook to a monitor and run my audio setup off the monitor so whatever input I happen to be on will be getting sound versus having to unplug and plug into each seperately.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The output impedance on that amp is 80ohm.... that is NOT good. That's gonna color the hell out of anything that isn't basically 600 ohms (ideall that high an impedance would fit headphones with a 640ohm impednace or higher, though 600ohm isn't bad), or planar magnetics. Basically it may make the bass real sloppy, or treble real sharp, etc. This isn't a definite, and it could be a minuite change, but it's possible. That 80ohm output is technically too high for almost any standard headphone to function the way they were meant to. High output is usually used because it's cheap, or because the coloration it adds is benign.

As for warm colorations... it depends on if the warmth is due to added bass or rolled off treble. The 990 Pros don't need more bass, but could benefit from smoother treble. The 598 has really forward mids, so added bass would fix their shoutiness a tad.


----------



## ScarsHD

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As I mentioned scores shouldn't be compared unless I specifically state so with a comparison. One budget HEADPHONE can have a 7, and a higher end pair can have a 6.5, but it doesn't make the budget pair better. I take various things into account. Whether they are open or closed, price, whether they are a headset or a headphone, etc. scores are based on their OWN merits, and how I personally feel they perform based on what I just said, not how they stack up to other headphones. If it were like that, everything would score low next to something like a Q701 or Denon D7000. This is why I don't like to compare unless I feel it's justified.
> 
> The 770 is more expensive, because it has better drivers. The CAL might have a better tonal balance, but it's not as refined. The 770's soundstage also trumps the CAL's. If the bass wasn't so emphasized, the 770 would score higher. Either way, the 770 is a bigger, and better headphone overall, though it's more expensive, and for the price, it doesn't perform as well as headphone near it's price range, like the 990 Pros.
> 
> AGAIN, DO NOT COMPARE SCORES.


 
   
   
  Alright. Thanks & sorry. Thoughts on the Zowie MASHU? Will you take a look at it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chubtoad said:


> Well my Annies finally arrived
> 
> of course, my mic hasn't, and the Asgard 2 hasn't even shipped yet (but from the looks of it it should be any day now)
> 
> ...




Yeah, the Mixamp needs a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to function properly and convert into Dolby Headphone.

Running the Mixamp off Monitors and TVs will most likely ensure you're getting a linear 2 channel PCM signal, Not Dolby Digital, so you won't get Dolby Headphone, but stereo with tons of artifical reverb. Display devices with digital outputs almost always tend to only do stereo. Their Dolby Digital capabilities are restricted to Over the air signals (like TV channels), or their internal apps like a TV with Netflix built into the software. External devices like consoles will not benefit.

Short answer: Don't do it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

scarshd said:


> Alright. Thanks & sorry. Thoughts on the Zowie MASHU? Will you take a look at it?



Lol, no need to apologize. Just generally telling everyone not to compare.

Sorry, I don't buy headphones/headsets I'm not personally invested in (I make very little money, despite my horrible impulses), though I don't mind if companies or users send me theirs to demo and review. Skullcandy being the only company who has sent me some headsets to review from both their Astro side and SC side.


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The output impedance on that amp is 80ohm.... that is NOT good. That's gonna color the hell out of anything that isn't basically 600 ohms (ideall that high an impedance would fit headphones with a 640ohm impednace or higher, though 600ohm isn't bad), or planar magnetics. Basically it may make the bass real sloppy, or treble real sharp, etc. This isn't a definite, and it could be a minuite change, but it's possible. That 80ohm output is technically too high for almost any standard headphone to function the way they were meant to. High output is usually used because it's cheap, or because the coloration it adds is benign.
> 
> As for warm colorations... it depends on if the warmth is due to added bass or rolled off treble. The 990 Pros don't need more bass, but could benefit from smoother treble. The 598 has really forward mids, so added bass would fix their shoutiness a tad.i


 
  Yeah, I think that's weird too. Why would they even make the impedance that high, especially since it's made for studio use where you want the sound to be as natural as possible? I noticed you had created a thread about it some time ago:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/592730/beyer-amps-with-100-ohm-output-impedance-lolwhut
   
  Anyway, I'll just buy either of the cans I can get cheapest. I'm hardly audiophile yet so I doubt I'll be dissappointed in any case. If I notice any strange stuff with the amping, I'll just buy a Fiio E9. 
   
  Btw, would the routing be the same for the NAD's integrated headphone amp as for a regular headphone amp? Would the mic work?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E9 also has a bit too high of an imepdance for the 598. I think the Magni is a better choice.

I;m not sure on te last question. My mic experience is very limited.


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The E9 also has a bit too high of an imepdance for the 598. I think the Magni is a better choice.
> 
> I;m not sure on te last question. My mic experience is very limited.


 
  I live in Sweden so a Magni might be hard to find unless I get one from the forum.
   
  Ok. but shouldn't it just be like the usual way with an amp:
  DX clip-on mic goes into the mic socket on the y adapter and the headphone connects to the NAD which in turn goes to the heaphone socket on the y adapter, which then in turn goes into the Mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that sounds right.

How about the Objective O2? That's another not so costly alternative amp. Epiphany Acoustics is the European distributor.

Also, the Fiio E12 would be definitely powerful enough for either of those two cans while also being low impedance, and having a bass boost which may aid the HD598.


----------



## conceptionist

Yup, also been looking at the Objective O2, but I think the Magni looks better (don't like cables so the front). I have been studying your guide more than for the financial exam I have tomorrow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Hmm... Filo 12. In what way does it differ from the F09K? Since the Magni, F09, F12 and even my NAD integrated amp can supply enough power, do you think the DT990 600 ohm version could be a decent choice or should I just go with the 250 one? I would still like to be able to use it with just an iPod.
   
  Thanks for all your help


----------



## kellte2

conceptionist said:


> Yup, also been looking at the Objective O2, but I think the Magni looks better (don't like cables so the front). I have been studying your guide more than for the financial exam I have tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm sure Mad can also weigh in, but I recently owned all three versions of the dt990 premium. My favorite, by far, was the 600ohm. I was able to drive it with the e09k, and the bass and treble were more refined than the 250. It felt less harsh at the high end and the bass was never sloppy, but it definitely was full.


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> I'm sure Mad can also weigh in, but I recently owned all three versions of the dt990 premium. My favorite, by far, was the 600ohm. I was able to drive it with the e09k, and the bass and treble were more refined than the 250. It felt less harsh at the high end and the bass was never sloppy, but it definitely was full.


 
  Sounds good.
  Now, if we are to believe the guideline of having significantly lower impedance on the amp's headphone out than the actual headphone, surely the 600 Ohm version would be the best DT990's for my current amps which have 80 and 220 Ohm's output respectively? If the cans wouldn't sound good on those I'd just buy another amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's very, very close. One of the 600ohms sounded a lot like the 250ohm, while another sounded a little less bassy, but more refined. Again, this is why I hate Beyer. They can't get the headphones to sound like one another in the same model.

The 600ohm would be fine with the E9K, though the E9K wouldn't struggle with the 250ohm. ERither way the differences aren't huge. I actually enjoyed the bass more out of the 250ohm, but the clarity was a hint better on the 600ohm. The 32ohm is inferior to both, but they are pretty close to the 600ohm's sound when driven by a desktop amp. Don't bother with them as they are harder to drive than the 250ohm despite getting louder easily.

The E12 has similar power to the E9K, and is portable. However, it's gain doesn't come close to the E9K, so certain headphones MIGHT struggle. I've had a few cans that the E9K can't provide enough volume for in low gain mode. Low gain FWIR is about as loud as the E12's HIGH gain. This is why I wouldn't go for the E12 for 600ohm cans or harder to drive planars.


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the Mixamp needs a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to function properly and convert into Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Running the Mixamp off Monitors and TVs will most likely ensure you're getting a linear 2 channel PCM signal, Not Dolby Digital, so you won't get Dolby Headphone, but stereo with tons of artifical reverb. Display devices with digital outputs almost always tend to only do stereo. Their Dolby Digital capabilities are restricted to Over the air signals (like TV channels), or their internal apps like a TV with Netflix built into the software. External devices like consoles will not benefit.
> 
> Short answer: Don't do it


 
  Thanks for clarifying!
   
  I suppose I'll have to not be lazy and just switch between whatever I'm using.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> Just wanna say something:
> 
> Gamers who Boost, hack, cheat online should just die. Stop ruining games for everyone else.
> 
> ...




Agree. What I will add to this is that I think it's the developer's responsibility to control and enforce this type of thing. Cheaters run around all over the place in CoD and the devs do nothing. It's a lot less prevalent in BF3 because DICE seems to take more active measures, but it still happens.

I hate people, but I hate developers who don't give a damn more because they want their coin.


----------



## Evshrug

scarshd said:


> Have you ever considered trying the new Zowie MASHU headset? I would like to see how it compares to CAL! and DT770s. It's pretty new, and the only place I know you can buy it right now is on http://market.esea.net/
> . I know headsets usually aren't that good, but, so far, zowie have been releasing good stuff and their products surely live up to their price.
> 
> also, quick note, you said I should get the DT770s over CAL! for gaming, but on your review itself competitive seems to be better on CAL! than DT770s. I'd really like to know why because there's quite a difference in price.




The ZOWEI mice are supposed to be very competitive, but I have no idea about the headphones. Audio reproduction and headphone design are a completely different ball game than the type of sensor and ergonomic design of mice that ZOWEI built their reputation on. Most likely, they defined a budget and features wishlist, and went shopping for an OEM headphone or driver manufacturer that they could buy from and put their logo on. I'm not saying the headphone will be bad, but I AM saying ZOWEI would be using someone else's sound design and you'd be paying the cost for the ZOWEI brand, their shopping costs, and the driver research done by the actual maker of the most critical headphone parts. I certainly would not expect Zowei's headphone to sound better or beat the price-value offered by Beyer, Audio Technica, Sennheiser, AKG, and other headphone-specialists that develop and manufacture their own headphones.



conceptionist said:


> Yup, also been looking at the Objective O2, but I think the Magni looks better (don't like cables so the front). I have been studying your guide more than for the financial exam I have tomorrow
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a FiiO Mont Blanc (E12). They both output over 880 mW @ 32 Ohm load, and scale pretty well from higher ohm loads (I'd be confident driving a 600 ohm Beyer, I kinda want a DT880 600 Ohm for myself, though I wish the mids were a bit more present). The biggest differences from the E09k are that it's a portable instead of a desktop amp and the E12 features an optional bass-boost. And about $20-$30 price difference. Oh, and the E12's output impedance is like 0.5 ohms, so well under the 1/8th rule of thumb suggested for most headphones. Mad mentioned low and high gain... All E12's offer a 0dB gain and a +16 dB high-gain mode, I don't know what the high-gain stats are on the E09k but not even halfway drives my 62 Ohm AKG Q701's loud on the 0 dB setting.

As far as headphone choice, I don't have anything further to add between the two you're looking at, beyond what has already been recommended to you.



chubtoad said:


> Thanks for clarifying!
> 
> I suppose I'll have to not be lazy and just switch between whatever I'm using.




I wouldn't call you lazy, just hoping to have a well-integrated setup. I'd say read the manual (RTFM!) of your monitor, and see if it supports 5.1 DDL audio output. Some TVs do (via optical), which is how they would return audio back to a speaker driver if the TV was hooked up to digital cable or something. 5.1 DDL audio ---> Astro Mixamp (or other surround processor) ---> headphone = good virtual surround.

I think you were specifically asking about microphone input and outputs though... If you actually have a computer monitor with multiple mic outputs, sure you should be able to use it as some sort of hub. Each console has it's own way of doing microphones though... I say, just buy a 3 pack of lapel mics for $4 (like I did), hook one up to each device and be done with it, lol.


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's very, very close. One of the 600ohms sounded a lot like the 250ohm, while another sounded a little less bassy, but more refined. Again, this is why I hate Beyer. They can't get the headphones to sound like one another in the same model.
> 
> The 600ohm would be fine with the E9K, though the E9K wouldn't struggle with the 250ohm. ERither way the differences aren't huge. I actually enjoyed the bass more out of the 250ohm, but the clarity was a hint better on the 600ohm. The 32ohm is inferior to both, but they are pretty close to the 600ohm's sound when driven by a desktop amp. Don't bother with them as they are harder to drive than the 250ohm despite getting louder easily.
> 
> The E12 has similar power to the E9K, and is portable. However, it's gain doesn't come close to the E9K, so certain headphones MIGHT struggle. I've had a few cans that the E9K can't provide enough volume for in low gain mode. Low gain FWIR is about as loud as the E12's HIGH gain. This is why I wouldn't go for the E12 for 600ohm cans or harder to drive planars.


 
  Ok. I think the the E9 would be better in that case since I could use it for future headphone upgrades which might require the power. Anyway, what do you mean by portable? Smaller, requires less cables? I don't think "portable" is a feature I need.
   
  Regarding Mixamp choice:
  Since I may be buying a headphone amp or will be using my integrated stereo amp for the headphones, would the older MixAmp versions be better? If I stack it with an amp, I should drive the mixamp volume to max and I've read that the 2013 have more hiss, which would then be more prominent. I don't think I'll need the 2013's EQ options and the older one's are cheaper. Also, do the newer and older one's use the same y adapter for third party headphones? Is the y adapter included when just buying the mixamp (no A40 headset) from Astro?


----------



## kellte2

The 2011 has less hiss, but it isn't a night and day difference. Astro provides the y-cable along with a USB cable, optical cable, line out cable and controller cable.


----------



## Evshrug

Roguegeek,
I remember a conversation with a guy who wanted to sell me some viruses he wrote. It was an awkward convo, I ended it with basically a "no thanks, but please don't find me and hack my computer." For some, it's an adventure and intellectual pursuit. Others, it's a competitive thing, especially within gaming but... could also be a shady corporate sabotage. And more and more prevalently, it's a greedy money-grab thing. Sometimes a mix of all three, like the people on Xbox Live that offered to sell me infections. However, hacking is becoming overall more prevalent and popular. Have any idea how easy it is to get someone's social security number? I actually got mad at our university and wrote their tech staff a long essay about how bad an idea it was to use partial SS codes for student's passwords, though they did nothing about it and continued to not allow us a password change during the remainder of my time there.

At the National Youth Leadership Forum on Technology, where I met that virus programmer, the two biggest guest seminars were from Microsoft, and Kevin Mitnick. Hacking is definitely here to stay, and grow, though it will become more and more of a financial thing than a couple of geeks messing around for fun.


Conceptionalist,
Portable means the E12 is about the size of my mom's Android smartphone (slightly smaller), unlike the O2 which is called "portable" but you wouldn't carry it in a pants pocket, maybe in a backpack though. Maybe in a fanny pack


----------



## conceptionist

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Portable means the E12 is about the size of my mom's Android smartphone (slightly smaller), unlike the O2 which is called "portable" but you wouldn't carry it in a pants pocket, maybe in a backpack though. Maybe in a fanny pack


 
  Haha!
  I'd rather have something bigger and a bit more stable than that. It's gotta look like a complicated and nerdy piece of machinery, otherwise I'm not interested.
   
  Also, it appears my TC electronic Impact Twin is a very nice high quality firewire ADC / DAC  (I really didn't know what it was), that also functions as a headphone amp and monitor controller (although with a very high 80 ohm headphone output). I've only used as an external soundcard when producing music on my computer, but there's some guys who use it as a preamp or DAC in their home stereo setup. 
  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/can-impact-twin-be-used-preamp-home-stereo-system-15605/
   
  This might be a dumb question, but would there be any use to include the DAC in the gaming setup?
  I'm thinking: Xbox -> MixAmp -> TC DAC -> NAD integrated stereo headphone amp -> headphones
  Alternatively, I'll just skip the NAD in the chain as the DAC already has headphone outputs. Or I'll just skip the DAC altogether, lol.
   
  Thoughts?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





conceptionist said:


> This might be a dumb question, but *would there be any use to include the DAC in the gaming setup?*
> I'm thinking: Xbox -> MixAmp -> TC DAC -> NAD integrated stereo headphone amp -> headphones
> Alternatively, I'll just skip the NAD in the chain as the DAC already has headphone outputs. Or I'll just skip the DAC altogether, lol.
> 
> Thoughts?


 
   
  No. 

 You can only have _one _DAC in the chain.  The DAC is right at the beginning of the audio chain to convert the digital signal to analog - where it will stay analog until it reaches the headphone.
   
  You can't chain DACs together.
   
  For gaming the Mixamp has to be the DAC otherwise you don't get Dolby Headphone.


----------



## conceptionist

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up.
  Slowly learning here...


----------



## Don Tonberry

I took an old Xbox headset and modded it so that there are two 3.5mm stereo jacks coming from it. One for the headset audio(I bridged the wire so that the mono signal comes through both left and right sides) and the other for the microphone.  I use my headphones with a Y cable to get my game audio from my DSS and then get the headset audio from my adapter.  It works but for some reason when i connect my headphones to the adapter in the controller both audio sources (game and voice chat) become mono.  It works better than using the Steelseries mixer with the DSS because the audio quality isn't degraded but I have no idea why everything becomes mono. 
   
  Does anybody have an idea why this may be?


----------



## rabinzero

Having been away from the forums for awhile I have to return after many months of gaming on consoles and PC with my Q701's hooked up to my Harman Kardon receiver.  For consoles I get automatic Dolby Digital Live converted into Dolby Headphone and it's not bad at all.  The receiver allows me to adjust levels to boost what I need to in order to push the Q701's properly.  Gaming bliss on the consoles.  Very good detail, but folks...let me tell you, PC gaming with headphones like the Q701's is pure greatness.  I have a sound card that allows for Dolby Digital Live and so many tweaks you can't help but fine tune these headphones to perfection.  Q701's tend to be a bit lacking for those that want a little more bass for their phones...not anymore with my tweaks on the PC.  It's so clean, so accurate that I couldn't believe they were the same headphones.  Mad Lust Envy and others that offer tips know EXACTLY what they are talking about.  Be prepared to tweak in order to make your headphones work beautifully.  I am a VERY happy camper and can now can understand why the love of good headphones exists.  I can honestly say I don't even miss my surround sound of my 5.1 speakers now.  I basically use that for music when no one is home.


----------



## zx6guy

[size=11pt][size=medium]For some reason I’m having a hard time visualizing this.  Are we talking the “chat” headset or a regular headset?  You cut the male connector and replaced it with two 3.5mm jacks (female)?  I think a schematic would help.  [/size][/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I went and rebought the first Black Ops. I forgot how fun the game was. No cheaters or millions of overpowered killstreaks (aside from Dogs, which not many people get anyways).


----------



## DCB305

Heads up just posted for sale my PC360's and Turtle Beach DSS2 (w/syba for chat). I didn't know Head-Fi had a classified I really only came hear to learn about gaming with headphone surround sound. Anyhow I have rarely used this setup, you will see why if you go to the post, so everything is in new condition. Looking to move as a package but I am considering separating. Thanks and MLE I am looking forward to the Fidelio X1 review.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/661824/sennheiser-pc360-tb-earforce-dss2


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I went and rebought the first Black Ops. I forgot how fun the game was. No cheaters or millions of overpowered killstreaks (aside from Dogs, which not many people get anyways).


 
  I think it's time you jumped on the field, MLE. Right now is the perfect time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> I think it's time you jumped on the field, MLE. Right now is the perfect time.




I haven't liked Battlefield since Modern Combat. The maps are too big, the pacing is too slow, and it's too team oriented. I'm a horrible team player. I play TDM but run off and do my own thing. 

Played BC, BC, and BF3. None of them were for me after BF2:MC (which was my first FPS ever).


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm a horrible team player.


 
   
  Ain't that the truth.


----------



## Change is Good

Nothing compares to the satisfaction of demolishing a building full of campers in BF:BC2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I can only hope BF4 has that kind of destruction....


----------



## chicolom

COD doesn't really encourage you to be team player.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Everyone just runs around and shoots s***.


----------



## Don Tonberry

Quote: 





zx6guy said:


> [size=11pt][size=medium]For some reason I’m having a hard time visualizing this.  Are we talking the “chat” headset or a regular headset?  You cut the male connector and replaced it with two 3.5mm jacks (female)?  I think a schematic would help.  [/size][/size]


 
   


 i used the headset that comes with the Xbox when you buy it.  I cut the end of the wire that attached to the actual headset portion of the entire thing and stripped the wire so that the ground for the mic portion and speaker portion as well as the live wires for each were separated.  I wired the ground and live wire of the microphone side to a 3.5mm jack so that any PC mic could connect to it and I also wired the ground and live wire of the speaker portion bridged into a stereo 3.5mm jack so I could plug any headphone into it.  It's pretty much like what they show here in this link except I cut the Microsoft headset cable to do it.
   
  http://www.instructables.com/id/Use-your-awesome-PC-Gaming-Headset-with-an-X-Box/


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> COD doesn't really encourage you to be team player.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  That's why I loved MGO.


----------



## conceptionist

Anyone have an idea if i could use a regular speaker stereo amp with a headphone jack instead of a dedicated headphone amp for a MixAmp setup for getting more power to thirsty headphones? I'm basically clueless about this stuff, but i'm thinking it might be a problem since a speaker amp may not be suited for a Dolby sorround device such as the MixAmp.

Also, do the MixAmp 2013 work perfectly now after the 1.3 firmware update? I've read tons of complaints on the 2013 version prior to that update in regards to using a mic and audio drops.


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> I think it's time you jumped on the field, MLE. Right now is the perfect time.



OOOH, Tomb Raider special edition is only $30!
I played BF3 on my Xbox a fair bit, even bought a copy of the game for a friend just to have someone to play with, but it was really frustrating to play against the high-level tanks with tons of unlocks, or the teammates who'd camp the jet spawns just to crash into the ground. That said, the Xbox gaming community might be different from the PC one, and my cousin was bugging me to join him (on PC). Have you played Planetside 2? I hear that's supposed to be good.
The reality, though, is I have 6 or 7 A list games in my library backlog, waiting for me to play them.



naingolann said:


> That's why I loved MGO.



What's MGO?


----------



## rpgman1

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> OOOH, Tomb Raider special edition is only $30!
> I played BF3 on my Xbox a fair bit, even bought a copy of the game for a friend just to have someone to play with, but it was really frustrating to play against the high-level tanks with tons of unlocks, or the teammates who'd camp the jet spawns just to crash into the ground. That said, the Xbox gaming community might be different from the PC one, and my cousin was bugging me to join him (on PC). Have you played Planetside 2? I hear that's supposed to be good.
> The reality, though, is I have 6 or 7 A list games in my library backlog, waiting for me to play them.
> What's MGO?


 
  MGO: Metal Gear Online.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> OOOH, Tomb Raider special edition is only $30!
> I played BF3 on my Xbox a fair bit, even bought a copy of the game for a friend just to have someone to play with, but it was really frustrating to play against the high-level tanks with tons of unlocks, or the teammates who'd camp the jet spawns just to crash into the ground. That said, the Xbox gaming community might be different from the PC one, and my cousin was bugging me to join him (on PC). Have you played Planetside 2? I hear that's supposed to be good.


 
  Planetside 2 is amazing! A bit repetitive, but the controls and game play are solid. A bit like BF, but bigger and persistent. What is absolutely horrible in the game is its sound engine. It sounds good, but directional audio is so entirely screwed in it. The good news is it isn't as critical in PS2 as it is in BF3, CS, or CoD due to the design of the game play. Definitely check out PS2 if you haven't.


----------



## Naingolann

evshrug said:


> What's MGO?




Metal Gear Online.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Planetside 2 is amazing! A bit repetitive, but the controls and game play are solid. A bit like BF, but bigger and persistent. What is absolutely horrible in the game is its sound engine. It sounds good, but directional audio is so entirely screwed in it. The good news is it isn't as critical in PS2 as it is in BF3, CS, or CoD due to the design of the game play. Definitely check out PS2 if you haven't.


 
   
  Funny that you say that, because while PlanetSide 2's audio mixing is par for the software-mixed course, I still find it far, FAR better than BF:BC2 and what little I remember of the BF3 beta.
   
  I'd rather have proper 3D audio back like with PlanetSide 1, though...but there's not much point in playing PS1 these days, especially with the required subscription fees.
   
  The one thing that frustrates me, though, is the performance. PS2 wants as much CPU as it can get for the big battles, and a 3 GHz Q6600 is proving to be insufficient. I'm itching for Haswell already!


----------



## Exitboon

Quote: 





conceptionist said:


> Hey, new on the forum.
> I'm a gamer / hi-fi enthusiast / DJ / music producer and I'm looking good step up from my ****ty TB X31's. I'm looking for a great all around set up with a focus on gaming, but it should also work for movies, heavy music and some music production. So a good mix of analytical and fun sound with decent immersion and big soundstage. Would be super grateful for any input on this:
> 
> After doing a lot of research of reading this thread and other forums and reviews, I've come to the conclusion that I want to go down the route of Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 (or maybe earlier versions are better if EQ is not needed?) + a great third party headphone + Dx mini clip-on mic.
> ...


 
  Hey where are you findind these awesome prices. 125$ for dt990s is ridiculously awesome


----------



## conceptionist

Classifieds on the forum and Ebay. I don't mind buying used stuff. Shipping is excluded in those prices.


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





conceptionist said:


> Anyone have an idea if i could use a regular speaker stereo amp with a headphone jack instead of a dedicated headphone amp for a MixAmp setup for getting more power to thirsty headphones? I'm basically clueless about this stuff, but i'm thinking it might be a problem since a speaker amp may not be suited for a Dolby sorround device such as the MixAmp.
> 
> Also, do the MixAmp 2013 work perfectly now after the 1.3 firmware update? I've read tons of complaints on the 2013 version prior to that update in regards to using a mic and audio drops.


 
   
  The 2013 Mixamp runs just fine after the latest firmware update.  However, there was also an issue with the USB power cord included in the box.  Apparently, the original cords were causing power drops when plugged into the xbox 360.  I'm not sure if they replaced those for new orders, but Astro sent me a new cable and it has worked fine ever since.  I'm very happy with the product now.  The latest firmware addressed all the problems people were having and made the EQ settings far more neutral as compared to when it shipped.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Funny that you say that, because while PlanetSide 2's audio mixing is par for the software-mixed course, I still find it far, FAR better than BF:BC2 and what little I remember of the BF3 beta.
> 
> I'd rather have proper 3D audio back like with PlanetSide 1, though...but there's not much point in playing PS1 these days, especially with the required subscription fees.
> 
> The one thing that frustrates me, though, is the performance. PS2 wants as much CPU as it can get for the big battles, and a 3 GHz Q6600 is proving to be insufficient. I'm itching for Haswell already!


 
   
  I don't recall my experience in BC2 and wasn't being very critical of audio when I was playing it, so I can't really comment on it at all and I know BF3 Beta was pretty rough, but there is no doubt in my mind that the current version of BF3's positional audio rendering is lightyears beyond PS2. It makes sense in my head because I'm assuming the Forgelight game engine is probably handling a bajillion more complexities than Frostbite is. It's not distracting, but the audio is inferior IMO. It doesn't take away from the PS2 experience, though. I mean PS2 is really impressive once you understand everything that's happening.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my LCD2 is sold. For now, I'm stuck with the PLYR1 and my clip ons.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So my LCD2 is sold. For now, I'm stuck with the PLYR1 and my clip ons.


 
   
  HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF?!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't. I'm impulsive! 

Depending on how good the Emperor is, I may sell the Compass 2 as well and re-buy the ODAC, as I won't need a amp+dac anymore.

Somebody beat me to the D7000 that was on sale. I was going to buy it. :rolleyes:


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't. I'm impulsive!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You're really that impress with the D7000, huh?


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Somebody beat me to the D7000 that was on sale. I was going to buy it.


 
  Try the W1000X instead. You'll be surprised (positively or negatively, no guarantees 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). If you hated the A900X you'll probably like the W1000X.
   
  I do prefer them over the Denons for gaming, though it's a close call for movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I absolutely despise the Audio-Technica wings. I would never, ever again buy another Audio-Technica headphone with that headband design. Ever.

I know what I'd be getting into with the D7000 (it would've been #3). Though this time, I'd have placed an order for some lawton leather pads, only for the improvement in comfort. The pleather is irritating.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Koss ESP-950 is LIVE!



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

Another Mad review! Good summary, informative and enjoyable. And also makes me want an electrostat (especially a STAX, though the Koss warranty & price are highly attractive).

Maybe part of the "cheap build quality" impression comes from how thin and light the drivers have to be? Dynamic (and Planar Magnetic?) drivers have to weigh significantly more, and the plastic "frame" of the electrostatics is probably the only thing of substance on the headphone. Molded plastic, smooth surface, and 80's styling. I guess the makers of these headphones cannot afford to hire a designer (just an engineer, function with little attention to aesthetic form), but I would also guess that the audiophile community expects the design of these headphones to be a little quirky or funky by now.

Glass reinforced or at least ABS plastic would go a long way to inspiring build-quality confidence, at least for people who aren't headphone engineers.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I absolutely despise the Audio-Technica wings. I would never, ever again buy another Audio-Technica headphone with that headband design. Ever.


 
   
  Ugh, don't say that. I hated the fit of my AD700, but I have my heart set on grabbing an AD1000X or AD2000X right now. It wasn't the wing system that bugged me. I actually really like that. It was just the fact that I didn't get a good enough seal because it was a fairly large can.


----------



## chicolom

AD700s were annoying because the cups only pivoted side to side. They didn't pivot up and down which meant they could press unevenly on either your lower jaw or your temple.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> AD700s were annoying because the cups only pivoted side to side. They didn't pivot up and down which meant they could press unevenly on either your lower jaw or your temple.


 
   
  Exactly my problem! Made and posted an annoying little image a while back explaining exactly that. You think they would have addressed that with the newer X models.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Really light clamping force on the ESP/950, huh? I might really like them for comfort, then.
   
  It's one of the bigger reasons I prefer vintage Stax Lambdas to their Nova/numerical descendants.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> You think they would have addressed that with the newer X models.


 
   
  Wait...they didn't?
   
  LOL. 
   
  I thought that was one of the main reasons they updated them.  I guess I must been thinking of the _*T*_ADxxx which has the vertical pivot.
   
  They definitely should have addressed it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, Alienware M17x R4 #3 ordered (from another seller). This time I specifically asked for them to check the HDMI input to make sure it worked before they shipped it out, and if not, to cancel my order.

If this one doesn't work, then I will just call the M17x a failure and move on to a much cheaper laptop with similar specs.


----------



## AxelDaemon

Wow the guide's format certainly have had leaps and bounds in changes heh.  Looks great!
  
 And definitely interested in the Schiit Magni for my mixamp + Q701 combo.
  
 My only concern is whether or not the Magni is 110-220v "universal" range?  I'm still in the Philippines, and while there's a couple few 110v outlets within the house, it'd be nice if it was universal, that way I don't have to be conscious of where I'm plugging it hah.
  
 Edit: I think I found my answer and it's not the good one


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Does the new Tritton AX 720 decoder box still work with a standard pair of headphones and 3.5 mm mic? Sorry if you've answered this question a zillion times but I'd rather not go through a 890 page thread to find out. Also the JVC HA-RX 700 is known for being a very good budget gaming headphone.


----------



## soCold

Hey, guys! I'm currently looking for a new headset or a pair of headphones since my old ones have broke a while back (Tritton AX720). I was previously looking at the Astro A40 headset, but I have been thinking that I can get more quality for my money. Honestly, the reason I was looking at them was because it has everything included for £200/$250. I am now looking at the AKG K701 since I play competitive and need to hear them little details like footsteps, and from what Mad Lust has posted in the original post, they're some of the best for that. Another cheaper option would be the AD700 for £100. So, basically I'm just looking for suggestions on some other headphones and what I should be using to power them and how to use them with the Xbox 360. I still have the amplifier that came with the Tritton's, they have one input for 3.5mm headphones, and a 3.5mm input for a microphone; not sure if it would be of any use for a new setup. I was originally only wanting to spend about £200 (hence by getting the Astro's), but I am willing to spend a tad more in order to compensate for any other equipment I'll need. Thanks in advanced.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Sounds like the AKG K 240 works well with DH from what I've read.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> Does the new Tritton AX 720 decoder box still work with a standard pair of headphones and 3.5 mm mic?  Also the JVC HA-RX 700 is known for being a very good budget gaming headphone.


 
   
  Yes.  You just plug into the 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks on the break-away cable.  Unless you already have it I'm not sure I'd pick it up over a mixamp though.  
   
  I've used the RX 900 (the open version of the rx700) and I thought the soundstage was a little wonky and positioning was too difficult IMO.  But some people seem to like it.
   
  Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> Sounds like the AKG K 240 works well with DH from what I've read.


 
   
  The K240s is OK with Dolby Heapdhone.  The bass can bleed into some the other sounds, muddying up the soundstage.  Also the soundstage is only medium sized so things will sound a bit more cramped than with some larger open headphones.  I've compared them with A40s and positioning was easier with the A40s.
   
  Quote: 





socold said:


> Hey, guys! I'm currently looking for a new headset or a pair of headphones since my old ones have broke a while back (Tritton AX720).  I am now looking at the AKG K701 since I play competitive and need to hear them little details like footsteps, and from what Mad Lust has posted in the original post, they're some of the best for that. Another cheaper option would be the AD700 for £100
> 
> I still have the amplifier that came with the Tritton's, they have one input for 3.5mm headphones, and a 3.5mm input for a microphone; not sure if it would be of any use for a new setup.


 
   
  You can just reuse the Tritton box.  You just plug into the 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks on the break-away cable.
   
  If you're looking for competitive sound-whoring the AD700 is all you really need.  The K701 won't do anything better than the AD700 for _purely competitive_.


----------



## soCold

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You can just reuse the Tritton box.  You just plug into the 3.5mm headphone and mic jacks on the break-away cable.
> 
> If you're looking for competitive sound-whoring the AD700 is all you really need.  The K701 won't do anything better than the AD700 for _purely competitive_.


 
   
  That's what I'm currently doing, plugging crappy earbuds (not enjoyable) into the 3.5mm headphone jack. For the time being I would just be using them for competitive, but will expand my usage once I finally build a new computer. Would the Tritton amp be enough to power the K701's for now (roughly a couple of months)? Then, I could purchase a dedicated soundcard when I build my computer. If the Tritton amp wouldn't be adequate enough, what you recommend to power them?
   
  Thanks for replying, greatly appreciate it.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Is there a headphone that sounds like the AD700, but with more bass in the same price range? BTW I do already have the Tritton AX 720 decoder box, so that saves me $130.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

I'm looking for a headphone that has a "fun" sound for single player, but also excellent positioning, soundstage, and clarity for competitive in the $80-150 price range


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You basically want everything. No such thing, and especially not for that price.

An AD700 with more appreciable bass isn't an AD700. There will always be tradeoffs.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





socold said:


> Would the Tritton amp be enough to power the K701's for now (roughly a couple of months)? Then, I could purchase a dedicated soundcard when I build my computer. If the Tritton amp wouldn't be adequate enough, what you recommend to power them?
> Thanks for replying, greatly appreciate it.


 
   
  It would probably give you enough volume.  If your trying to use the tritton with your computer, you need to be able to send out DD 5.1 over optical.
   
  Also, Q701 are cheaper than K701 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> Is there a headphone that sounds like the AD700, but with more bass in the same price range? BTW I do already have the Tritton AX 720 decoder box, so that saves me $130.


 
   
  AD900 (and AD900x) is _similar, _but not the same.  They have slightly more bass, but soundstage isn't quite as good.  No two headphones sound alike, so there is no "AD700 + bass."
   
  Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> I'm looking for a headphone that has a "fun" sound for single player, but also excellent positioning, soundstage, and clarity for competitive in the $80-150 price range


 
   
  You're asking A LOT from that price range.  If you could get all of that for $80-150 people wouldn't be going for the $200-300 headphones.
   
  For budget gaming headphones some people like the Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B.  Maybe the Takstar HI2050.
   
  You can get some of the Senn HD5xx for that price as well.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

I should probably keep using the AX720 and save up for a pair HD 598 then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 598 won't satisfy you with it's bass, and the AD700 still has a better soundstage and positional cues.

Tradeoffs. The next best thing is indeed the Q701, IMHO, but it's still not a 'bassy' headphone, though it's quite a bit better than the AD7000 in that regard.


----------



## soCold

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It would probably give you enough volume.  If your trying to use the tritton with your computer, you need to be able to send out DD 5.1 over optical.
> 
> Also, Q701 are cheaper than K701


 
   
  Thanks for the help, you have got my questions answered which I came here for, greatly appreciate it!
   
  Unfortunately, here (or at least on Amazon UK) the Q701 is about ~£70 more than the K701, which is a shame since you said that they're cheaper than the K701. If you have any suggestions on where to order them from, then please do as I'm all ears.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

I'm not going to be able to get any headphones in that price range until I start working. I'm thinking of the Beyerdynamic DT 440; from what I've read they are like the AD700 but with a slightly narrower soundstage and more bass. Not as good for competitive because of the bass but I play just as much single player as multiplayer so fun factor is important.


----------



## Change is Good

Has anyone here owned or tested the Shure SRH940? This is off topic but I would like some feedback from anyone in this forum with any familiarity with this can. I am in the market for a closed set of headphones (that I can use on the go) with a similar sound signature to that of my Q701 w/memory foam pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure itd be better to get the Mad Dogs. The 940s are known to be bright.


----------



## Change is Good

There's just something about those Mad Dogs that I'm just not digging. And after reading your review it drew me away even further. The fact that they have less bass than the Annies and the treble being "hampered" as you say made these a no go for me.
   
  I'll just have to keep researching, I guess. Have you found a set of portables yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I decided to give up on portables for now, as I know they wouldn't really get any headtime. Seems like a waste.

Im waiting on my Kingsound setup. Right now I'm just using the PLYR1 and my clipons.

Dan is probably sending me his latest Mad Dog which apparently have much better bass, and more neutrality, so I might revise my review of them.

As for something else, I really wanna try the X1, but I'm scared they won't fit me even after bending the headband, and I don't wanna return anything else to Amazon.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

The Mad Dogs are over my budget. No one has mentioned the DT 440s as being bright from what I've read.


----------



## Change is Good

Ok, I'll check that out once you do. If I end up buying the 940s... and like them... I would be curious to know what your thoughts on them would be. I'd be down to send them to you and have you review them if so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've never looked into the DT440, so I wouldn't know. I'm so used to the 770s and up, I can't see myself forking the cash for the lower end models, though as always, I'm always up to try whatever is sent to me. 

CIG, that sounds cool.

Just be warned, I've read a lot of dislike for the 940s...


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, I'm seeing some of that as we speak. I am reading that the 840s would be closer to what I'm looking for.
   
  Also, if I do buy the 940 and dislike them I will most certainly return them and not even waste our time. Gotta love Amazon


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with what I end up getting since I haven't had a decent gaming headphone. I had a taste of good soundstage when I put the G cush on a pair of SR60i (the SQ was terrible though) and it sounded incredibly realistic and immersive so I have been seeking a headphone with with a good soundstage to get that experience.


----------



## Unreal1

I have the PC360's atm, was thinking of moving to the Q701 or anniversary edition. Trying to get a single headphone or set that's more well-rounded, better with music, good or better cues, and more immersive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Annies all the way.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Annies all the way.


 
  +1


----------



## Change is Good

I wish I had the 'real' Annies 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Someone please reassure me that what I have is just as good


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





unreal1 said:


> I have the PC360's atm, was thinking of moving to the Q701 or anniversary edition. Trying to get a single headphone or set that's more well-rounded, better with music, good or better cues, and more immersive.


 
   
  Regular Q701 is still more immersive than PC360, for sure.  Better for music too IMO.  I wouldn't expect better cues though. 
   
  Anniversaries are an extra step in immersion over Q701 though.


----------



## Unreal1

thanks, will I need anything different with my setup? Right now I'm just running an Asus Xonar DXG. Also, is the fidelity just as good on the annie's compared to the 360? The biggest thing that blows me away with the Sennheiser's is how crystal clear everything sounds, even people with bad mics sound awesome through these  I don't want to lose that.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Has anyone here owned or tested the Shure SRH940? This is off topic but I would like some feedback from anyone in this forum with any familiarity with this can. I am in the market for a closed set of headphones (that I can use on the go) with a similar sound signature to that of my Q701 w/memory foam pads.


 
   
  I love my SRH940. It's an amazing closed can with a very specific purpose. Very bright. Very detailed. Very exciting. I think there are some people would say overly bright, but I really love it. It's extremely analytical and, therefore, poorly mastered or encoded media sound terrible on them. It is going to pick up every error and artifact there is. I'm assuming you posted here because you would want to be using them gaming. If I had to use a closed can for competitive gaming, the SRH940 would be the one I'd use due to its comparatively impressive soundstage and positional accuracy. It's a delight to use, but make no mistake about it. An open can such as the Annie or AD700 are still better for competitive gaming. For non-competitive gaming, it's a definite pass because it just lacks the boom you'd want in your low frequencies.
   
  Overall, the SRH940 a hard headphone to recommend because, again, it's a very specific can for a very specific use. You need to understand what you're getting in it because there are absolutely defined strengths and weaknesses with them. What it's meant for, it excels greatly at it. The SRH940 is a treble and detail monster and I absolutely love them for that.


----------



## Change is Good

Actually, my purpose for the 940 would be for portable use... not gaming. I love the sound signature of my Q701 with the Annie pads for both music and gaming... but they are obviously not portable. I posted the question here along with other forums so I can get feedback from different people who own them or have tested them.
   
  From what I have observed so far is that these are a little on the bright side to be considered neutral/balanced. I like my highs to be clear and detailed but not extreme. For example, I used to own the AD700 and found the highs on those cans to be a little fatiguing. The Q701 highs are just perfect for me... and with the Annie pads everything is perfectly balanced for my taste. I'm going to have to pass on the 940, I guess.
   
  What about the 840? Have you owned/tested it? Is that more on the neutral/balanced side? Like I said I am looking for a closed can with a similar sound to what I like for on the go. I know the soundstage on those might be lacking but as long as everything else is balanced I'm all in. Also, if I purchase the 940 pads for the 840 how would it affect the sound?


----------



## Stilg7

Hello everyone I've been debating on which new headset to get. I have it narrowed down between the Sennheiser PC 360 and the SkullCandy SLYR. I will be using them for gaming obviously and listening to music. I wouldn't call myself an "audiophile" but I do enjoy really good sound. I'm just curious if the Senn's are that much better or would i be better off saving some money.
   
  I know most of you will say to get a pair of headphones with a clip on mic. Do either of the two headsets i mentioned have good to great sound quality, if I'm ok with paying a little extra for the built in mic?  I would prefer to have a headset and just not deal with the clip on mic but if the sound quality just isn't there i might reconsider for what I would be paying. Also I would like to go wireless but I've been reading a lot, and people say wired is the way to go. If you guys could mention something wireless, comparable or better to the two I've listed, I would also consider that.
   
  To sum it up, I guess I'm really just interested to know if the Senn's blow the SC SLYRs out of the water or are they pretty close? Any added information or answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all help.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Isn't using high end headphones for gaming a waste of their potential because of the compressed audio in most games?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some games are better than others, and next gen consoles are coming out, which will undoubtedly improve audio fidelity.

In any case, it's not just about refinement, but balance, soundstage, positioning, etc. A higher end can will still be much more enjoyable than a lower end can.

As for the SLYR vs PC360, if you're using them for competitive use, the PC360 is hard to beat. The SLYR is more fun oriented AND closed. I'm not a fan of the PC360 for music or fun gaming. It's a well balanced can that treads on being safe rather than exciting. The SLYR is more enjoyable to me, though they wouldn't be a headphone I use for competitive gaming.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Actually, my purpose for the 940 would be for portable use... not gaming. I love the sound signature of my Q701 with the Annie pads for both music and gaming... but they are obviously not portable. I posted the question here along with other forums so I can get feedback from different people who own them or have tested them.
> 
> From what I have observed so far is that these are a little on the bright side to be considered neutral/balanced. I like my highs to be clear and detailed but not extreme. For example, I used to own the AD700 and found the highs on those cans to be a little fatiguing. The Q701 highs are just perfect for me... and with the Annie pads everything is perfectly balanced for my taste. I'm going to have to pass on the 940, I guess.
> 
> What about the 840? Have you owned/tested it? Is that more on the neutral/balanced side? Like I said I am looking for a closed can with a similar sound to what I like for on the go. I know the soundstage on those might be lacking but as long as everything else is balanced I'm all in. Also, if I purchase the 940 pads for the 840 how would it affect the sound?


 
   
  Well the SRH940 or 840 are definitely not portable cans. I think you may be asking your question in the wrong thread as this one is focused on headphones for gaming. Check out this thread for full sized recommendations and this thread for portable recommendations.


----------



## junrin

Good day everyone, i'm here with a piece of information, but i'm not sure if its been posted before, and i'd prefer not to scan through 89~ pages to find it. has anyone here heard the PSB M4U1 yet?
   
  i've heard reviews of people praising it so much i'm on the verge of calling them brand biased, but PSB is not _exactly_ a famous headphone maker and they have only expertise in speakers, and the only headphone they made before this is the M4U2 and the only thing i've heard about that is better than the M4U1's is that they have noise-cancelling.
   
  If anyone knows anything about it and it's performance in gaming, clarity, detail, soundstage, please answer.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> Isn't using high end headphones for gaming a waste of their potential because of the compressed audio in most games?


 
  Sometimes. In BF3 the sound samples are amazing (positional audio aside). With my JH13s the immersion factor is almost too much.


----------



## shankdude

hey i am new to this forum
 i read a lot of pages of this awesome guide
 I am from India and audio gear available here is quite pricey compared to US.
  I am a laptop user and i play competiitive CS 1.6 at my college.
 For Dolby audio i plan on buying Asus xonar U3.
  But i cannot decide on headphones
 My budget is restricted to headphones available around 50 $( more or less ) in US.

 i finalised HD 201 but i have more money to buy better ones if available.
 Please suggest me.
 Thank You.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





junrin said:


> Good day everyone, i'm here with a piece of information, but i'm not sure if its been posted before, and i'd prefer not to scan through 89~ pages to find it. has anyone here heard the PSB M4U1 yet?
> 
> If anyone knows anything about it and it's performance in gaming, clarity, detail, soundstage, please answer.


 
   
  No one in this thread has mentioned them, so no one has has probably tried them.
   
  Looking at the design, I wouldn't expect them to have too much soundstage though.
   
  Here's a thread that will probably have more info:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/605079/psb-m4u-2


----------



## robm321

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I love my SRH940. It's an amazing closed can with a very specific purpose. Very bright. Very detailed. Very exciting. I think there are some people would say overly bright, but I really love it. It's extremely analytical and, therefore, poorly mastered or encoded media sound terrible on them. It is going to pick up every error and artifact there is. I'm assuming you posted here because you would want to be using them gaming. If I had to use a closed can for competitive gaming, the SRH940 would be the one I'd use due to its comparatively impressive sound stage and positional accuracy. It's a delight to use, but make no mistake about it. An open can such as the Annie or AD700 are still better for competitive gaming. For non-competitive gaming, it's a definite pass because it just lacks the boom you'd want in your low frequencies.
> 
> Overall, the SRH940 a hard headphone to recommend because, again, it's a very specific can for a very specific use. You need to understand what you're getting in it because there are absolutely defined strengths and weaknesses with them. What it's meant for, it excels greatly at it. The SRH940 is a treble and detail monster and I absolutely love them for that.


 
   
  Couldn't agree more. These have detail that rivals the top phones regardless of price. Very neutral. Not sure how it would be for gaming, but it sounds good on movies and great with music. For the price, they are a serious deal. Build quality is the only issue. There have been some reports of cracking. And it can is a portable, but they are big on me and I'd be a bit embarrassed to be walking around with them YMMV


----------



## miceblue

robm321 said:


> roguegeek said:
> 
> 
> > I love my SRH940. It's an amazing closed can with a very specific purpose. Very bright. Very detailed. Very exciting. I think there are some people would say overly bright, but I really love it. It's extremely analytical and, therefore, poorly mastered or encoded media sound terrible on them. It is going to pick up every error and artifact there is. I'm assuming you posted here because you would want to be using them gaming. If I had to use a closed can for competitive gaming, the SRH940 would be the one I'd use due to its comparatively impressive sound stage and positional accuracy. It's a delight to use, but make no mistake about it. An open can such as the Annie or AD700 are still better for competitive gaming. For non-competitive gaming, it's a definite pass because it just lacks the boom you'd want in your low frequencies.
> ...




Dat headband fracturing.... >_<

But yes for gaming I found them to be awesome! Likewise for music enjoyment. They are still my favourite headphone for rock music.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





stilg7 said:


> Hello everyone I've been debating on which new headset to get. I have it narrowed down between the Sennheiser PC 360 and the SkullCandy SLYR. I will be using them for gaming obviously and listening to music. I wouldn't call myself an "audiophile" but I do enjoy really good sound. I'm just curious if the Senn's are that much better or would i be better off saving some money.
> 
> I know most of you will say to get a pair of headphones with a clip on mic. Do either of the two headsets i mentioned have good to great sound quality, if I'm ok with paying a little extra for the built in mic?  I would prefer to have a headset and just not deal with the clip on mic but if the sound quality just isn't there i might reconsider for what I would be paying. Also I would like to go wireless but I've been reading a lot, and people say wired is the way to go. If you guys could mention something wireless, comparable or better to the two I've listed, I would also consider that.
> 
> To sum it up, I guess I'm really just interested to know if the Senn's blow the SC SLYRs out of the water or are they pretty close? Any added information or answers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all help.


 
  I have some PC 360's and listened to a couple SkullCandy headsets. (also Astro A30's and A40's AD700's with modmic Ultrasone w/mic etc. etc. ) Overall the PC 360's are my favorite for gaming out of the headsets, but I would personally suggest the Fidelio X1 and the Vmoda cable with the built in mic. I have been using the single button mic cable that is geared towards cell phone use on Xbox Live and it does a good job for $15. Plus it eliminates having to use an extra cable and splitter with the mixamp.


----------



## SoAmusing777

Nice to see the Annie still kicking ass. What a great purchase I made. I've sinced moved on to the PC realm!  Still a newbie, but really enjoying it! Gotta sell my receivers and PS3 though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I received MrSpeaker's updated Mad Dogs, and I have to say, it's a noticeably better headphone than the last one I tested. The bass is beautiful and linear sounding like the LCD2 (not quite, but it's very good). The mids are very good, and treble has a slight sizzle but it's still a dark sounding, bordering neutral headphone. Spent a few hours gaming with them, and they immediately impressed me in terms of positional cues (rear cues were great). Soundstage is still a bit too closed for my personal taste, but it is a closed headphone. Just on first day impresion, the scores are definitely gonna have to change to like a 7.5/7 or so.


----------



## miceblue

Question: is the SR-407 similar to the Lambda Signature? Stax talks about the Lambda in the SR-407 description.

   
  My gawd these sound awesome...do want, nao.


----------



## Chubtoad

my Asgard 2 has finally shipped...it only took about a month from the original date i ordered them lol
   
  can't wait to actually be able to use everything hah


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mmmm Asgard 2. I'd love to own one, and put it outside on my computer desk (my Compass 2 is on a night stand next to my bed).

Not sure I'd get much use though seeing as my one and only main headphone is an electrostatic with its own amp, lol.

Once I get it and confirm it's the headphone for me, I'll most likely sell off my Compass 2, and get the ODAC again (with RCA out this time), as I won't need a standard headphone amp and just need a dac. Going electrostatic from now on, and if I get standard headphones, I'll run them off my Marantz receiver which I'm very happy with.

I really only wanna try out the X1...


----------



## sycomike01

New to the thread and have some questions. I have decided to get an astro mixamp pro and eventually a FiiO E09k and some good cans. I am leaning towards the ATH AD700s. Here is my question, I have my pc and xbox close to each other(like same desk), and am wondering what a GOOD spdif/optical switch would be. I would also like to use these for blurays from my pc. If some one could recommend these or something similar in price that would benefit both games and movies, that would be great. Sorry so long, thanx in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700 does not need an additional amp. In fact, you may make the SQ worse if you use the E9K with it.


----------



## BigEarsMan

Well I finally took the plunge and got myself a DT 880 600Ohm along with a Magni to use with my AX 720 mix amp. Overall I have to say I am a little disappointed with it. I did not notice too much of an improvement over the plain old AX720 headset with my games. Maybe I was expecting too much? Not sure I might keep these they do however do really well with music and movies more so than games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You need to spend some time with them. You've become to accustomed to the AX720's sound signature. Give the 880s at least a week ALONE (do not compare). Then go back and see if you still feel the same.

They're not even in the same stratosphere in terms of sound quality and refinement, IMHO.

If you still feel they're not worth it, then stick to the AX720 and be happy. No need to upgarde if you're happy.

I DID specifically mention the 880's aren't the best for positional cues in gaming, especially competitively. People think I'm kidding, it seems. They just do not have the best positional cues.


----------



## BigEarsMan

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You need to spend some time with them. You've become to accustomed to the AX720's sound signature. Give the 880s at least a week ALONE (do not compare). Then go back and see if you still feel the same.
> 
> They're not even in the same stratosphere in terms of sound quality and refinement, IMHO.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I will probably keep testing them out for a week or two. Im not lookin too much into positional cues, looking for more immersion but at the same time nothing too bassy. Thats why I chose the DT 880 especially after reading your review.


----------



## sycomike01

double post my bad


----------



## sycomike01

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The AD700 does not need an additional amp. In fact, you may make the SQ worse if you use the E9K with it.


 
  What about with the CALs?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sycomike01 said:


> What about with the CALs?


 
   
  Doesn't need an amp either.
   
  32 ohms and designed for portable use_ - "Lightweight and ergonomically designed, the Aurvana Live! is perfect for listening on the move"._
   
  AD700 and CAL! sound nothing alike though.


----------



## sycomike01

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Doesn't need an amp either.
> 
> 32 ohms and designed for portable use_ - "Lightweight and ergonomically designed, the Aurvana Live! is perfect for listening on the move"._
> 
> AD700 and CAL! sound nothing alike though.


 
  Cool. Just worried about the open can from the ad700 for waking the family.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ad700 is as open as it gets, though if you're in your own room, its not like it will bother others, even with the doors open, unless you like to listen so loud to the point of ear torture.


----------



## MiniMaster

I am looking into getting an amp and dac but I want to have the dolby headphone feature. Would it be best to just stick with my current Xonar Essence STX or are there other alternatives that are better without loosing the dolby headphone feature?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think youre good with the STX for now.


----------



## Pascual

Thanks for this guide it's been a great help. Thinking about ditching my aging hd555 for the Audio-Technica M50.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's quite a different presentation of sound, and for competetive gaming, the 555 will trump the M50s.


----------



## xxicrimsonixx

minimaster said:


> I am looking into getting an amp and dac but I want to have the dolby headphone feature. Would it be best to just stick with my current Xonar Essence STX or are there other alternatives that are better without loosing the dolby headphone feature?




Swap the op amps.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread


----------



## Naingolann

pascual said:


> Thanks for this guide it's been a great help. Thinking about ditching my aging hd555 for the Audio-Technica M50.



I don't know how you came up with that idea, but as MLE said, you're not upgrading to the M50...quite the opposite.

If you feel the need to upgrade from your HD555, then you've gotta look up to the Beyerdinamic/AKG headphones or even at much more expensive ones.


----------



## Pascual

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's quite a different presentation of sound, and for competetive gaming, the 555 will trump the M50s.


 
  The thing is, I'm not really into competitive gaming like I once was. I still play some first person shooters and stuff but just for fun rather than competition.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even so, I don't think the M50 is a solid choice for gaming. I like it a lot for music for it's price, but for gaming, I would definitely look elsewhere.


----------



## Pascual

Hmm ok. Do you have an opinion on the Sennheiser PC 350 Special Edition?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, haven't heard it, but I'm not a fan of closed headphones overall for gaming.


----------



## Pascual

Right now I'm mainly looking the either the Sennheiser PC 350 Special Edition or the Sennheiser PC 360. I quite like the idea of getting a closed set as I've had recording issues with the HD555. The condenser mic I use is very sensitive and tends to pick up the game sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno if you can afford it, but the CURRENT iteration of the Mad Dogs is a fantastic closed headphone. Easily the best I've heard that isolates this well, and better than the one I reviewed earlier. I'll be re-doing my review later, but if you can afford them, I think they are worth it.


----------



## Pascual

The Mad Dogs look nice but a little outside of what I'm willing to pay. The cost of shipping to the UK doesn't help either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. Im sorry I dont really have much experience with closed headphones.


----------



## Pascual

No worries! This guide has been incredibly helpful, keep up the good work


----------



## pietcux

For the PC 350 there exists a bass mod on Headfi. I had it years ago. It is very comfy, but the mids are a bit to pronounced for music. The friend of mine who bought it still uses it for gaming.


----------



## Makiah S

Mad Lust any tips on how to get a mike working with use of oDac.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Would I need additional amplification if I used the Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 Ohm with the Tritton decoder box?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Mad Lust any tips on how to get a mike working with use of oDac.


 
   
  The ODAC doesn't have any inputs, so you'll have to plug a mic into a second soundcard with mic inputs and configure your computer to use both at the same time (one for input one for output).
   
  I wouldn't use the ODAC for gaming though, I would use a soundcard with surround sound.  Any of those would have a mic input already.


----------



## chicolom

Some D7000s in the FS forum...
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/663141/fs-denon-d7000-headphones
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/663118/denon-d7000-for-sale-like-new-condition-price-reduced


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Couldn't afford them even if I wanted to.


----------



## kenshinhimura

they always come back on sale at the worst times for you MLE


----------



## Itzryan

Could you review the Plantronic GameCom 780's. Think their 35$ used on Amazon
[size=1.7em]  [/size]


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





itzryan said:


> Could you review the Plantronic GameCom 780's. Think their 35$ used on Amazon


 
   
  I'm sure he'd be happy to review them if he's _sent a pair to review._
   
  Otherwise he has no reason to buy them for himself.


----------



## Evshrug

Been away for a while; Steam (and windows troubleshooting) have kept me busy.




shankdude said:


> hey i am new to this forum
> i read a lot of pages of this awesome guide
> 
> I am from India and audio gear available here is quite pricey compared to US.
> ...




Shankdude,
I don't know if you'll read this, but I would advise NOT to buy the HD201. I gifted a pair to my mom, but they were not comfortable for both of us, and the sound wasn't very special. They are available for like $15 in the USA... if that's your budget, you really have few options. The HD202 is worth the extra money, based on comfort alone. It was actually a fun headphone to listen to — though treble suffered from some distortion (and sound is overall not very refined), this is actually a very good sounding headphone among low-price options. I personally used a Sennheiser PX100 for about 6 years, and I was pretty happy with those. I still have them and they work well, but I need to replace the foam ear cushions, they have basically worn through.

Koss is another brand besides Sennheiser you should look into. Even their cheap earclip (Koss KSC75) and sporta-pro or porta-pro models sound good for the price, though the porta-pro may be out of your budget ($45 in the USA: http://www.amazon.com/Koss-PortaPro-Headphones-with-Case/dp/B00001P4ZH).

JVC is worth researching too. I liked the HA-RX900 (modded with a little pinch of cotton in the earcup to smooth the treble, and the earcup surface dampened with Dynamat to reduce resonance and make the bass more clean), which may also be out of your budget, but I've read good reviews about their on-ear portable headphones and their JVC Marshmallow in-ear buds.


----------



## Makiah S

Sheesh what a pain, I dont game witht he oDac I listen to music while I game with the Odac, but yea it seems a sound card might be needed anyways... I think I have one slot open for it on my mobo. BUT that will have to wait till me next build


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Sheesh what a pain, I dont game witht he oDac I listen to music while I game with the Odac, but yea it seems a sound card might be needed anyways... I think I have one slot open for it on my mobo. BUT that will have to wait till me next build


 
  Your best bet to continue using the ODAC is to get either a bluetooth or usb mic, otherwise you would have to get a soundcard/DAC that has a mic/line-in since you can't have two devices running at once.


----------



## Chubtoad

Is there somewhere I can pick up a PC Headset Y Adapter? When I ordered my Mixamp I didn't realize that it doesn't come with any cables except a USB power cable from the looks of it. I'm not about to order the Y adapter off the Astro website because its 36 dollars shipping to where I live lol.
   
  Maybe I'm not looking for the right product but I don't see any kind of adapter on Amazon? Also, need a recommendation on a decent brand for an optical cable/3.5mm to RCA cable


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> Also, need a recommendation on a decent brand for an optical cable/3.5mm to RCA cable


 
   
  Does monoprice ship to where you live?
   
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021817&p_id=9767&seq=1&format=2
  http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022901&p_id=1419&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Evshrug

Monoprice is great.


----------



## Chubtoad

Yes they ship to Canada, thanks


----------



## Evshrug

Goin to bed early, going to relax, going to lose myself in some Q701 + music library on shuffle goodness ^_^


----------



## chicolom

FYI there is another Head-Fi Meet in Ohio *tomorrow *if anyone is interested (see the link in my sig).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So laptop #3 came in, and finally the HDMI input works. 

Of course, nothing is ever easy, and no windows updates will install, nor will switching to dedicated graphics work on the laptop screen. It works if I use the HDMI output to my TV.

I did what any sane person would do and tried reformatting the drive, but it wont let me, saying there are files missing. Of course, I dont have a Windows installation CD, and I have to wait for my boy to bring it tomorrow. HOPEFULLY installing Windows 7 will bring less problems than 8. Even then, it doesn't guarantee that the laptop screen will accept the dedicated graphics card. Sigh...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





modulor said:


> Your best bet to continue using the ODAC is to get either a bluetooth or usb mic, otherwise you would have to get a soundcard/DAC that has a mic/line-in since you can't have two devices running at once.


 
  that's what I was thinking. Any tips on a good USB mic


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> Sheesh what a pain, I dont game witht he oDac I listen to music while I game with the Odac, but yea it seems a sound card might be needed anyways... I think I have one slot open for it on my mobo. BUT that will have to wait till me next build


 
   
  Quote: 





modulor said:


> Your best bet to continue using the ODAC is to get either a bluetooth or usb mic, otherwise you would have to get a soundcard/DAC that has a mic/line-in since you can't have two devices running at once.


 
   
  Ive read to not use the ODAC for gaming and instead use a dedicated soundcard, is that true?
  Ive read the ODAC is actualy better the Xonar STX for music but I guess for gaming not so good?
   
  So on my PC I can not use ODAC and have a working mic?
  My motherboard has mic, also I have connected mic cable from my sound card Xonar DX to front of PC case.
  so basicaly I can connect mic to either motherboard or soundcard, but this would not work if ODAC is my Amp/Dac?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





grandpatzer said:


> Ive read to not use the ODAC for gaming and instead use a dedicated soundcard, is that true?
> Ive read the ODAC is actualy better the Xonar STX for music but I guess for gaming not so good?
> 
> So on my PC I can not use ODAC and have a working mic?
> ...


 
  well I've found I can't use a mic, and as far as gaming goes, I don't need surround sound... I play rpgs and racers so all I need is GOOD BGM, and a mic. So for me I'm having to get a usb or blue tooth mic to use. Not a big deal as I don't even use in game voice chat all that much tbh. That and most of my online time is spent on monster hunter, where as my PC does emulating and some non intensive rpgs.


----------



## daleb

I'm going to get the Q701s in a little while, thank you so much for this thread!


----------



## Makiah S

daleb said:


> I'm going to get the Q701s in a little while, thank you so much for this thread!



 
 no problem! Mad suggested the dt 880s to me many months ago and I still love em! [Love my w1000x just as much though ;3] But what started me dwn the path or REAL quality audio was a suggestion I got from mad on thie forum ^^


----------



## 3X0

Honestly, I was a bit underwhelmed by the Q701 for competitive gaming purposes. While the sound was very diffuse, I didn't find the cues themselves to be exceedingly precise or accurate. While it'd give me a good idea of what quadrant noises would be coming from, I wasn't always sure of their precise location. I'd even go as far as to call it misdirection.
   
  I think the W3000ANVs are better in this regard, and perhaps even the W1000Xs. The W1000X felt more accurate to me than the Q701s, and had a benefit of subjectively better immersion thanks to its frequency response.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Honestly, I was a bit underwhelmed by the Q701 for competitive gaming purposes. While the sound was very diffuse, I didn't find the cues themselves to be exceedingly precise or accurate. While it'd give me a good idea of what quadrant noises would be coming from, I wasn't always sure of their precise location. I'd even go as far as to call it misdirection.
> 
> I think the W3000ANVs are better in this regard, and perhaps even the W1000Xs. The W1000X felt more accurate to me than the Q701s, and had a benefit of subjectively better immersion thanks to its frequency response.


 
  Well, actually, video games are the third thing on my list of importance. I need headphones that are very neutral and good with composition, since I'm a music producer.  Then I, listen to music way more often then I game, so that's really important. I still want headphones for gaming though, and the Q701s fit every need I have.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Well, actually, video games are the third thing on my list of importance. I need headphones that are very neutral and good with composition, since I'm a music producer.  Then I, listen to music way more often then I game, so that's really important. I still want headphones for gaming though, and the Q701s fit every need I have.


 
  Oh, I was just making a general comment. The imaging of the Q701 did seem more precise than my A900X (which was also capacious but was prone to more misdirection), but I was expecting greater. I do not think they live up to their reputation as far as "soundwhoring" is concerned.
   
  I think the theory that open headphones are generally better for gaming is quite silly and needs further substantiation. A more diffuse soundfield does not necessarily lend itself to more precise placement within that space, and in my opinion there are many closed headphones that beat similarly-priced open headphones in the latter regard. I'd rather have a decent soundstage and great imaging (e.g. W1000X) than a great soundstage and decent imaging (e.g. Q701).


----------



## daleb

Of course, you could just jump straight the HD800s and get both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't know about you, but we all hear differently. From my days on Avsforum, the K70x and Q701 have been a consistent fave for soundwhoring and competitive gaming. There just isn't much better out there, IMHO.

Perhaps closed headphone may make sounds easier for you to pick out, but their lack of soundstage, especially depth, don't do anything for me for the most part.

There are exceptions, but overall, open, large soundstage headphones are the most ideal to me.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So laptop #3 came in, and finally the HDMI input works.
> 
> Of course, nothing is ever easy, and no windows updates will install, nor will switching to dedicated graphics work on the laptop screen. It works if I use the HDMI output to my TV.
> 
> I did what any sane person would do and tried reformatting the drive, but it wont let me, saying there are files missing. Of course, I dont have a Windows installation CD, and I have to wait for my boy to bring it tomorrow. HOPEFULLY installing Windows 7 will bring less problems than 8. Even then, it doesn't guarantee that the laptop screen will accept the dedicated graphics card. Sigh...


 
   
  Huh...in any case, you got a Windows 8 COA with license key printed somewhere on that laptop, right? In that case, there are legal ways to obtain Windows 8 installation DVD images, and you'll just have to supply that serial yourself.
   
  Still, I'd already go with Windows 7 if at all possible, unless some proprietary aspect of that laptop only works right with Win8. (Laptops are finicky as hell due to all the proprietary bits...)
   
  I'm still stumped as to why the HDMI input now works, but several other things don't...it shouldn't be this hard for them to make a decent gaming laptop that just happens to have an HDMI input. What the hell, Dell/Alienware?


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Oh, I was just making a general comment. The imaging of the Q701 did seem more precise than my A900X (which was also capacious but was prone to more misdirection), but I was expecting greater. I do not think they live up to their reputation as far as "soundwhoring" is concerned.
> 
> I think the theory that open headphones are generally better for gaming is quite silly and needs further substantiation. A more diffuse soundfield does not necessarily lend itself to more precise placement within that space, and in my opinion there are many closed headphones that beat similarly-priced open headphones in the latter regard. I'd rather have a decent soundstage and great imaging (e.g. W1000X) than a great soundstage and decent imaging (e.g. Q701).


 
  Does "imaging" mean to know exact location of enemy (foot step, noise)?
  While "soundstage" means that W1000X sounds like a small room and Q701 sound like a bigger room?
   
  I can't find W1000X for sale, wonder if the A1000X is similar headphone?
   
  Many ppl are happy with the PC360 it's also almost half the price of Q701, maybe I order both and compare...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're half the price because sound isn't only about positioning and soundstage. The Q701 is a much better headphone overall. If your main purpose is competitive gaming, then just get the AD700/HD555/PC360 and save money.

Just because those are aimed strictly for competitive doesn't mean they'll be anywhere near as enjoyable as something like the Q701.

You can buy a cheap brand LCD HDTV which shows the same image as a high end Panasonic V series plasma HDTV. Doesn't mean it shows it at the same level of quality.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





grandpatzer said:


> Does "imaging" mean to know exact location of enemy (foot step, noise)?
> While "soundstage" means that W1000X sounds like a small room and Q701 sound like a bigger room?


 
  Pretty much. The W1000X soundstage is noticeably somewhat larger than that of other closed headphones (e.g. A900X, DT 770 LE), though.
   
  For example, the Q701 gives me an approximation of a sound that is good for a 40-50 degree radius/arc. The W1000X is closer to 30 degrees. The W3000ANV is something like 15. The HD 800s are 0-3. JH13s are 0-5. These are all very rough estimates.
   
  Pinpointing the sound is nice, but what was really bothering me about the Q701 is that the fuzzy diffuse radius/arc between where a sound is projected and its actual source in the 3D world is big enough that it might cause occasional misdirection (e.g. the sound is actually in a different quadrant than I would expect). Its clarity and separation help counterbalance this, but it's still the fuzziness of its imaging that made it a bit of a letdown in this regard for me.
   
  It could be my Dolby Headphone settings, but I somehow doubt that would allow the Q701 to pull ahead from the woodies instead of just improving all of them.
   
  In its defense, the airiness and separation of the Q701 make it easy to pull apart sounds although it's less immersive as well. And it's awesome for music -- highly underrated in this regard.


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Pretty much. The W1000X soundstage is noticeably somewhat larger than that of other closed headphones (e.g. A900X, DT 770 LE), though.
> 
> For example, the Q701 gives me an approximation of a sound that is good for a 40-50 degree radius/arc. The W1000X is closer to 30 degrees. The W3000ANV is something like 15. The HD 800s are 0-3. JH13s are 0-5. These are all very rough estimates.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for really good post!
   
  So basicaly the HD 800s are best for competitive gaming then?
  Atleast when it comes to pinpoint enemy positions.


----------



## tmaxx123

I agree with 3XO on the open vs closed headphone thing. Open headsets just didn't do it for me. So i stuck with the mmx300 and have fallen in love. Sold my astro a40 the other day, in fact.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You do realize the A40s are closed, right? Removing the speaker tags doesn't magically give them open properties. It slightly ruins the seal, thats it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> It's happened again, people. Razordogaudio.com has the K702 65th Anniversary Edition on sale for $349 through the end of May with coupon code RAZORDOG65TH. Go get.




You heard the man!


----------



## autoteleology

Mad Lust, I see you got the new Kingsound stats? How have you been enjoying those?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, they're on pre-order. 

I'm currently without a full sized headphone, though I current have the latest Mad Dogs on loan (amazing closed cans), and the Skullcandy PLYR1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=j5rCiCWIT-k[/video]


----------



## daleb

Very nicely done unboxing!


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm currently without a full sized headphone, though I current have the latest Mad Dogs on loan (amazing closed cans), and the Skullcandy PLYR1.


 
  Where is the Fidelio X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3x0 said:


> Where is the Fidelio X1?




Lol, I'm not getting that. I'd love it, but I'm mostly a one headphone guy. One open, one closed, at the most.

Thanks daleb! I was rushing, honestly. So green about all that. I need to learn editing and the like.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I'm not getting that. I'd love it, but I'm mostly a one headphone guy. One open, one closed, at the most.


 

 You got rid of your Annies?!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> You got rid of your Annies?!




I sold them to fund for the LCD2, and I've sold the LCD2 to fund for the Kingsound electrostatic headphone. 

I'm a fickle person. Don't judge me.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad, I enjoyed the video, you covered the relevant points and it felt like a friend was showing his stuff to me. Gonna make more videos?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably. Testing the waters.

I'll try again with the Kingsound KS-H1 and it's M-10 amp. Probably prop my phone up between two books, so I can use both hands. XD


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Honestly, I was a bit underwhelmed by the Q701 for competitive gaming purposes. While the sound was very diffuse, I didn't find the cues themselves to be exceedingly precise or accurate. While it'd give me a good idea of what quadrant noises would be coming from, I wasn't always sure of their precise location. I'd even go as far as to call it misdirection.
> 
> I think the W3000ANVs are better in this regard, and perhaps even the W1000Xs. The W1000X felt more accurate to me than the Q701s, and had a benefit of subjectively better immersion thanks to its frequency response.


 
  REALLY, wow I own the w1000x, and you feel it's BETTER... hehe lucky me.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, they're on pre-order.


 
   
  Perhaps your preorder was premature!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol. I'm gonna email Drew and see if he's expecting a shipment soon. I'm getting antsy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol. I'm gonna email Drew and see if he's expecting a shipment soon. I'm getting antsy.


----------



## Change is Good

Ok, so I went ahead and purchased the SRH840 instead of the SRH840 as my closed can. I tested it for gaming and it performed quite decent except for the soundstage. It's a pretty 'fun' can, actually. It reminds me of the M50, somewhat. For music, however, these babies shine for the price range.
   
  It's like when I used to have the AD700 and M50. The AD700 was for gaming/movies and the M50 was for music. It is slowly becoming the same with my Q701 and SRH840, now. I don't know if that's a good thing... or bad thing... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: I meant to say "purchased the SRH840 instead of the SRH940"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Ok, so I went ahead and purchased the SRH840 instead of the SRH840 as my closed can.




Lol.


----------



## BigEarsMan

So uhh some thoughts on my new DT 880. I think I will be returning them. I am no good at describing sound but I will try. From playing games like Uncharted 3 I found the sound of gun fire to be fairly harsh. Its very clear but they seem to have less uhhh.... "weight" to them compared to my AX 720 headset. Sound of gun fire sounds more "full" on the AX720 than on the DT 880. Had this problem with other sounds to but gun fire stood out the most. Really hope this makes sense to someone. So I will be getting them exchanged.
   
  Any suggestions of what to go for, considering how I found the DT 880 to sound. I do like its sound stage and bass though. Looking for immersion but not overpowering bass. Budget of $250


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uncharted isn't good for demoing headphones. Bad positional audio. But yeah, the 880s are bright. You might want something smoother. Maybe the 650?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dp...again


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol.


 
  Lmao!!! I meant "purchased the SRH840 instead of the SRH940." Sorry guys...
   





   
  Edit: Ok that's enough mistakes for one day. Time to get off this computer...


----------



## BigEarsMan

HD 650 are quite a ways beyond my budget....... 
   
  Im guessing the DT 990 pro would be the same as the 880 with the gun fire sounds
   
  anything @ $250  comes to mind?


----------



## Change is Good

So, to get me of this computer I decided I'm going to watch Zero Dark Thirty with my Q701s (haven't seen it yet). Memory foam pads or stock pads?
   
  Decisions... decisions...


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Uncharted 3 has pretty good positional audio; Uncharted 2 isn't that great. The gunfire in Uncharted 3 is also much more bright than most shooters so it isn't the best in that regard.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Probably. Testing the waters.
> 
> I'll try again with the Kingsound KS-H1 and it's M-10 amp. Probably prop my phone up between two books, so I can use both hands. XD



At one point I almost expected you to brace the box with your feet so you could get the dang stuff out, haha! Propping the phone between books is a good idea, smoother video too, but maybe you could affix the phone to your forehead so it sees what you see? Kinda like some tech-doctor? Probably should just stick to the feet idea 



mad lust envy said:


> Lol. I'm gonna email Drew and see if he's expecting a shipment soon. I'm getting antsy.






mad lust envy said:


> Lol. I'm gonna email Drew and see if he's expecting a shipment soon. I'm getting antsy.




I... See...



mad lust envy said:


> Dp...again



Lol

So, how did you hear about Kingsound, and why do you trust them? That's the same designer as your amp too, right? I'm not saying they shouldn't be trusted, I just don't know anything about the brand except that you plunked down like $500 for their amp.

PS I have too many games to play right now. I'm almost done with Assassin's Creed and ES: Oblivion, but I still have my long term mainstays CoD4, Reach, and Starcraft II, I'm dabbling in Star Wars: the Force Unleashed and Halo 4's Forge mode, and I own but have yet to get into SW:TOR, KOTOR, KOTOR II, Skyrim, Mass Effect 3, Batman: Arkham City, and probably one more I forget right now. I buy games to relieve stress from work, but I work too much to play games as regularly as I used to. The DSS is still treating me well, though I still get the strongest sense of imaging when I use the tube amp with the DSS.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> PS I have too many games to play right now. I'm almost done with Assassin's Creed and ES: Oblivion, but I still have my long term mainstays CoD4, Reach, and Starcraft II, I'm dabbling in Star Wars: the Force Unleashed and Halo 4's Forge mode, and I own but have yet to get into SW:TOR, KOTOR, KOTOR II, Skyrim, Mass Effect 3, Batman: Arkham City, and probably one more I forget right now. I buy games to relieve stress from work, but I work too much to play games as regularly as I used to. The DSS is still treating me well, though I still get the strongest sense of imaging when I use the tube amp with the DSS.


 
   
  My backlog is as follows: FO3, FO:NV, GOW Saga, GOW: Ascension, Hitman HD Trilogy, Max Payne 3, Metal Gear Rising, Tomb Raider, Tomb Raider HD Trilogy. I am close to finishing Dead Space 3 and Hitman: Absolution... and just started Dead Island: Riptide.
   
  I play games to relieve stress, as well, but school has had my time tied up these past 9 months. It still hasn't stopped me from buying more games, though... smh


----------



## chicolom

I have a pretty huge backlog of games I want to play through over the summer.  Luckily most of the games are getting pretty cheap now. 
   
  I recently finished Singularity (surprisingly good and similar to Bioshock and Metro 2033 styles) and I just picked up FF XIII-2, Max Payne 3 and Mass Effect 3.
   
  Still need to play RE6, Dead Space 3, Halo 4, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Tomb Raider, and many more...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





bigearsman said:


> HD 650 are quite a ways beyond my budget.......
> 
> Im guessing the DT 990 pro would be the same as the 880 with the gun fire sounds
> 
> anything @ $250  comes to mind?


 
  The 990 has more bass and more treble... so it might be worse. Still I'd give the 880 a chance to break in [break into ur brain that is] but seriously once you adjust to the 880 sound you might like it, but the dt series is bright... although apprently the w1000x is brighter than an 880... which it is. I own both. Still... I don't mind bright cans... I don't find them harsh [even on solid state] it's bass and mids that get me angry with any can... bright is nice so long as it's airy and smooth


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Smoother, comparative cans are the 650 and K702 Anniversary. Mad Dogs as well but those are closed.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Smoother, comparative cans are the 650 and K702 Anniversary. Mad Dogs as well but those are closed.


 
  Mad Dog isolation was great for MY gaming needs, but it was WAY to dark for music imo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Did you get 3.2? It's a complete turnaround for me, compared to what I originally reviewed. After I review the PLYR1, the Mad Dogs are getting updated. This time, it's considerably more favorable. I absolutely love the new MD.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Are the Sennheiser HD 518 good for gaming?


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Emperor ES HP has one of the worst builds I've ever seen. It really looks and feels very cheap. Sound didn't impress me either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not trying to dismiss your claim, but everyone else with impressions on it's sound have been positive. Every single one. I of course, will wait until I hear it myself.

As long as the build isn't like the ESP950, I'm good. They have yet to finalize headband design as well FWIH, so either way, I'll see for myself. If it's as horrible as you say, I still have a 2 week return period.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

So MLE are you going to continue your reign of supremacy when the next gen consoles come out? Or are you going to be like me and say: "BAH! Console game is too expensive nowadays without all the benefits of PC gaming." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Just wondering.
   
  Hi all btw. Been some months since I popped in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though I might dive into PC gaming (single player gaming, anyway) on PC, I will always have at least a Playstation console. Definitely hyped for the PS4. I'd get the New Xbox, but I honestly don't need both, and I prefer the exclusives on Sony's system over Halo and Gears which are the only Xbox exclusives I'd play. I'm not even a fan of Halo. I do wish I was able to play Gears though.


----------



## NinjaSushi2

I'm just alarmed at the estimated pricing. Isn't supposed to be 700+ USD!? That's a decent little gaming PC with a 660ti or a 7850.


----------



## grandpatzer

What would be the best way to compare two headphones against each other?
I was considering running a Benchmark of some game and compare the "feel" of both headphones.
   
I think swapping between two headphones ingame would be a hazzle, maybe play game for a day then next day try the other headphones for a day?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's best you get acquainted with one for at least a week, then use the other. Hot swapping isn't really helpful unless the headphones are similar in tonal balance, and you've been well acquainted with both.

Swapping from say a Mad Dog to a Pro 900, or HD650 vs DT990 wouldn't be good whatsoever. When frequency response is quite different, you will find one to be awful if you were used to the other. I.e. If using a dark headphone for a long period and switching to a bright headphone, the bright headphone will sound like pure treble death. If vice-versa, the dark one will sound awfully slow and muddy.

The best you can get in such extreme circumstances is soundstage and positional cues, IMHO.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mshenay said:


> REALLY, wow I own the w1000x, and you feel it's BETTER... hehe lucky me.


 
  To clarify, it's W3000ANV > W1000X > Q701 for gaming. The W1000X with J$ Beyerdynamic pads gets surprisingly close to the Q701's width and depth, while having better imaging. Haven't tried the W3000ANV with the Beyer pads yet.
   
  That said, the Q701 is a must-buy at the sub-$200 used price point.
   


mad lust envy said:


> Not trying to dismiss your claim, but everyone else with impressions on it's sound have been positive. Every single one. I of course, will wait until I hear it myself.
> 
> As long as the build isn't like the ESP950, I'm good. They have yet to finalize headband design as well FWIH, so either way, I'll see for myself. If it's as horrible as you say, I still have a 2 week return period.


 

  Hopefully we see you with the Fidelio X1 somewhere within those two weeks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Sorry man, I really want to see you with the X1, and if that means the KS ESP sucks, well...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Not trying to dismiss your claim, but everyone else with impressions on it's sound have been positive. Every single one. I of course, will wait until I hear it myself.
> 
> As long as the build isn't like the ESP950, I'm good. They have yet to finalize headband design as well FWIH, so either way, I'll see for myself. If it's as horrible as you say, I still have a 2 week return period.


 
   
  It's hard to get impressed when you have heard almost everything. That itself is not a problem as it doesn't affect my enjoyment of music.
  If I had to find reasons to buy one it would be very hard to do. That explains my "not impressed".
   
  It might not fall apart like the ESP but damn does it look cheap and amateurish.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I promise that if the KS-H1 is as bad as he says, the X1 will be my next headphone.

I've come to not expect great build quality out of stats that aren't flagship level like the Omegas.

I hear nothing but great things about comfort and sound, so I'm still excited.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I find STAX to be disappointing for their price level and a lot people mentioned that during the High End 2013. In that regard Kingsound isn't that bad of course. They'll improve.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thing is, I can listen to the LCD2, and go all the way down to an M50, and still think they sound great. I'm not overly critical unless a headphone just sounds plain bad. I take price to performance into consideration, but I don't belittle headphones on a lower level, just because I'm used to the higher end stuff. A good headphone is a good headphone, regardless of price.

There's a lot of people that as soon as they get the next best thing, everything before it is now obsolete. I'm not one of these people.

I'm currently A/B-ing between the Mad Dogs and Plyr 1 for music, and I'm enjoying both immensely.


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's best you get acquainted with one for at least a week, then use the other. Hot swapping isn't really helpful unless the headphones are similar in tonal balance, and you've been well acquainted with both.
> 
> Swapping from say a Mad Dog to a Pro 900, or HD650 vs DT990 wouldn't be good whatsoever. When frequency response is quite different, you will find one to be awful if you were used to the other. I.e. If using a dark headphone for a long period and switching to a bright headphone, the bright headphone will sound like pure treble death. If vice-versa, the dark one will sound awfully slow and muddy.
> 
> The best you can get in such extreme circumstances is soundstage and positional cues, IMHO.


 
   
  Thanks, yeah it makes sense to have for one week the new headphones.
  Is this how you do with all the headphones that you have tested in youre guide?
   
  I will be getting K601 to have as reference for future headphones (if needed).
My current(and only ever had) headphones are Sennheiser HD212pro, I have had them very long maybe 7-10years. 
They are closed and are considered to be bass & "fun" friendly according these reviews 
  Ive read they have good positional direction for gaming considered they are closed, my guess is that the K601 propably is better.
   
  The K601 are supposed to be on the low side when it comes to bass, they are open headphones, analytical(?), Ive read one member write they have similar sound to Q701, some say it is quality wise slightly below or equal to K701.
   
  Price wise here in Sweden it is much lower compared to K701/Q701 so it logicaly should be not as good but regardless I'm hoping to be satisfied with them 
   
  Basicaly the K701 is 50% more expensive then K601, then the Q701 is 100% more expensive then K601, and lastly K702annie is 100% more expensive then Q701 so the Annie is 4 times as expensive as K601


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Thing is, I can listen to the LCD2, and go all the way down to an M50, and still think they sound great. I'm not overly critical unless a headphone just sounds plain bad. I take price to performance into consideration, but I don't belittle headphones on a lower level, just because I'm used to the higher end stuff. A good headphone is a good headphone, regardless of price.
> 
> There's a lot of people that as soon as they get the next best thing, everything before it is now obsolete. I'm not one of these people.




On that note folks, I would like to point out that the Little Koss that Could, the KSC75 clip-ons (and the KTXPRO1 I know next to nothing about) are the gold box deals on Amazon today, only $9.99. I may snag a pair for portable use


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Playing music with Dolby. Obviously doing it wrong.
> 
> And you can sacrifice your positioning, while I continue to get the upper hand because of so called dolbything.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  you want impressions OK no prob .
   
  I played a lot of multiplayer FPS and i still do (less but some times i play quite a bite) .
   
  I passed YEARS with CMSS 3D (setting it at 1/3 or 1/2 on the cursor) from creative (with varioius X-Fi based cards) and some months with Dolby Headphone (somes asus) (tryed the 3 presets) , with cheapo headphone at first and K272HD for a long time . Then i switched to DACs => no more CMSS 3D or Dolby headphone , (well at time i just bought a Auzentech X-Fi forte for S/PDIF out (wich came still use CMSS 3D via S/PDIF) .
   
  BUT the thing is even without this little "tricks" i still manage to play somewhat  well , i would say as good as it was with dolbything and cmss 3d . And with K702 i finaly found that dolby things / cmss 3d had to much impact on sound , well peraphs there is beter positioning , but sorry i loose to much on fidelity , and as i said it's not a problem for me , i don't have problem to find my ennemies and shoot them .
   
  Some days i play well , some not all , but it's just for the fun . For me i don't need anymore dolbyheadphone or CMSS 3D , don't feel the need at all .
   
  Many love dolbyheadphone or cmss 3d , i can understand this , but if you can't understand that we can play very well without it ...
   
  Some exemples  2  on Day OF Defeat source , and one BF3
   

   

   

   
  Na sorry it's sure for me i can live without Dolby headphone or CMSS 3d without any regrets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  edit : tués on DoD => kills
   
   
  and peraphs you are more skilled than average ...


----------



## Evshrug

Mad probably is more skillet than others. Personally, headphone surround was kinda fun but didn't improve my game at first (I was already like a 1.5 K average across any day), but gradually I became more sensitive to positional audio and started picking up a few more kills, and about three months ago (before I started my job) I had my first experience playing CoD4 where I heard someone shooting at 5 O'clock - I flicked around and shot at a blank wall, but got the kill through it. 

I have a DSS now (with dolby headphone, tho Dolbything is fun to say), and I started with a receiver featuring Silent Cinema, but when I upgraded to a Recon3D (with THX Tru Studio... Lol all these effects names!) and played Halo: Reach in SWAT on Zealot for the first time, I was already used to listening for positional audio but the audio quality was much improved, I got 4-5 assassinations and caught SO many people off guard. I don't have a final score screenshot, but I did have a game so good that even to me felt ridiculously easy. 

Now, I get on average somewhere between 2.0 and 2.5 K in my competitive MP. I probably would have a better K if I changed my playstyle from being a crazy rusher, but I just play for fun and wild moments. I can't claim that surround improved my Starcraft game... oh well I'll work my way out from Silver one day. If only more games included surround verticality, so I could literally get the drop on people.
-----



*PS: Mad,*
Should I snag a KSC 75 for myself? I'm not really a fan of clip-ons, I don't find them comfortable or secure, though I do need a casual portable headphone AND I'm wearing contacts instead of glasses again. Heard anything about the KTXPRO1?


----------



## Naingolann

^
+1.

DH won't make you a FPS monster and probably won't impact your K/D ratio all that much either, but it sure as hell gives you the time to react better in every situation thanks to a much more accurate positional sound, because you can approximately tell where a threat is coming from and how far is from you.

Your skills, your knowledge of the maps and other player's weaknesses (and TEAM(WORK) >_>). That's what really makes the difference...Being able to pinpoint the enemy's location thanks to a more accurate sound, is just the icing on the cake.

It worked for me, on MGO, although that's not your typical FPS game...it's more tactical and slow paced. For example, with my old "all in one" headset I couldn't precisely pinpoint which floor other players were hiding. It was a muddy mess...but switching to the HD555 (plus the DSS obviously), I could finally do that and as a result my performace improved as well. With the DT990 it was even better, because I find it even more accurate than the Sennheiser.

R.I.P. MGO, btw.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





grandpatzer said:


> Thanks, yeah it makes sense to have for one week the new headphones.
> Is this how you do with all the headphones that you have tested in youre guide?
> 
> I will be getting K601 to have as reference for future headphones (if needed).
> ...


 
   
  This decision makes no sense. It sounds like you're expecting to get close to Q701 performance for a fraction of the price. You are going to be disappointed. For the money you're spending, there are better choices out there.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> This decision makes no sense. It sounds like you're expecting to get close to Q701 performance for a fraction of the price. You are going to be disappointed. For the money you're spending, there are better choices out there.


 
  But he lives in a place where prices run way differently then most others. The K601s are more expensive then the Q701s in the USA, so price really doesn't judge value in either countries.


----------



## Evshrug

Naingolann,
Well... My K DID rise, slowly, over time, as I got used to making use of surround rather than just sound "Alert! someone is shooting!" It took a while to retrain, but it raised a skill cap a little bit for me. I know that I could be even better if I was selective with my aggression (still you don't win by camping all the time), in fact I do have my "try-hard" moments where I am as strategic as I am tactical, but making use of surround is near-instinctual and takes little concentration.

It's too bad MGO was gone by the time I heard of it. I guess that's because I was only focused on what would be available on the system I had. Still, I wish I had been able to play some Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory in Surround before THAT game's mp shut down. The new SC game's emphasis on action seems to further the direction SC: Conviction was going... I'm going to miss the old voice actor.


----------



## Evshrug

daleb said:


> But he lives in a place where prices run way differently then most others. The K601s are more expensive then the Q701s in the USA, so price really doesn't judge value in either countries.



Maybe the price after conversion rate to US $ is more, but the Q701 is priced higher still, so the value is still somewhat to scale. Wasn't the K601 a former flagship model from AKG? But many (perhaps most) agree that the K701 was an improvement, and the Q701 a minor improvement over that (though retroactive to the still-produced K701 & 2). So, the K601 should still be _good,_ but maybe bright and not a representation of what the Q701 sounds like.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> But he lives in a place where prices run way differently then most others. The K601s are more expensive then the Q701s in the USA, so price really doesn't judge value in either countries.


 
   
  That makes sense, but there's always the AD700.


----------



## roguegeek

Just picked up a pair of PortaPros and, holy poop, is that sound really coming out of a $40 headphone?! Can't wait to try these things on some BF3 tonight. Are these the same drivers that are in the KSC35 and SportaPros?


----------



## Evshrug

Same as the drivers in the KSC75, which I just bought. Similar, though.


----------



## chicolom

Portapro, Sportapro, KSC35  =  Same drivers
   
  KSC75  =  _Titanium coated _drivers


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd get the New Xbox, but I honestly don't need both, and I prefer the exclusives on Sony's system over Halo and Gears which are the only Xbox exclusives I'd play.
> 
> I'm not even a fan of Halo.  I do wish I was able to play Gears though.


 
   
   
  Gears is my favorite xbox exclusive.  I LOVE the multiplayer in it. 
  Halo has pretty epic campaigns (most fun when played in Co-op) but I don't like the multiplayer  :\
   
   
  Not sure which console I'll go with for next gen.  I might switch over to Playsation....


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Gears is my favorite xbox exclusive.  I LOVE the multiplayer in it.
> Halo has pretty epic campaigns (most fun when played in Co-op) but I don't like the multiplayer  :\
> 
> 
> Not sure which console I'll go with for next gen.  I might switch over to Playsation....


 
  If I had to grab just one, it's probably going to be Xbox, but chances are I'll pick up both. Nothing is exciting me about PS4, though. I bought my PS3 first day and I only used it for the Blu-Ray and GT5, which was awful. It's just collected dust for years now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can only speak for myself. But DH is a huge reason why I do so well. I can have near zero death games on the regular because DH gives me a good field of sojnd, that anything out of place that I notice, I can pick out near instantly, keeping me from getting killed. If I didnt have it, I WOULD die quite a bit more. Dh is an extension of myself in certain games like COD.

Yes, personal skill is involved, but DH boosts your awareness by a LOT.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> If I had to grab just one, it's probably going to be Xbox, but chances are I'll pick up both. Nothing is exciting me about PS4, though. I bought my PS3 first day and I only used it for the Blu-Ray and GT5, which was awful. It's just collected dust for years now.


 
  I didn't even know the xbox 360 had exclusives besides GoW and Halo...
   
  On the other hand, the PS3 has a good amount of single player games that can be enjoyed. Maybe Its just I don't like multiplayer games that makes the PS3 way better in my eyes...


----------



## BigEarsMan

sooo no less bright alternative to the DT 880 at around $250?
   
  Saw the Fidelio L1, looked interesting, anyone tried those with  dolby headphone?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I didn't even know the xbox 360 had exclusives besides GoW and Halo...
> 
> On the other hand, the PS3 has a good amount of single player games that can be enjoyed. Maybe Its just I don't like multiplayer games that makes the PS3 way better in my eyes...


 
   
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_exclusives_%28seventh_generation%29
   
  A couple other nice xbox exclusivses were Alan Wake, Forza, and Left 4 Dead (valve hated PS3 for a while there).
   
  PS3 has some cool ones that I'd like to play, like Heavy Rain, Killzone, Uncharted, etc.
   
   
  I think the Next Xbox gets revealed next week, so I'll have to see the direction they're taking it...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> PS3 has some cool ones that I'd like to play, like Heavy Rain, Killzone, Uncharted, etc.


 
   
  The Last of Us looks very promising


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So laptop #3 still has the black screen issue when switching to dedicated gfx, even after reformatting to windows 7.

At this point, I don't even know What to do. My patience has run out.


----------



## adrelion

So I'm torn between getting the MMX 300 headset or the AKG 702 Annies.
   
  Anyone that's had both know which would be better for someone who games often for MMOs, MOBAs, and the occasional FPS, but also are great for movies and music.
   
  Also any recommendations for a sound card to pair with one of these? I was looking at the Asus Xonar STX. Would that be good?
   
  Thanks in advance for any help you all can provide.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Did you get 3.2? It's a complete turnaround for me, compared to what I originally reviewed. After I review the PLYR1, the Mad Dogs are getting updated. This time, it's considerably more favorable. I absolutely love the new MD.


 
   
  You're gonna make me send mine back for the 3.2 upgrade if you keep talking like that.


----------



## adrelion

@Mad Lust - Sounds to me like you may want to see if the company can replace your dedicated gfx card. Sounds faulty to me if you are swapping and getting a black screen issue even after formatting. I'm assuming you updated drivers and what not as well for it.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





adrelion said:


> So I'm torn between getting the MMX 300 headset or the AKG 702 Annies.
> 
> Anyone that's had both know which would be better for someone who games often for MMOs, MOBAs, and the occasional FPS, but also are great for movies and music.
> 
> ...


 
  Both overpriced, but the K702 are based on a better headphone IMO.
   
  To clarify, the MMX 300 is a glorified DT 770 with a nice mic, and the K702 is the Q701 with a better headband and memory foam pads.


----------



## adrelion

Ya not saying they are not overpriced but I also am looking for some comfortable headphones/headset. I wear glasses and the current headset I have the Logitech G930s are kind of on the heavier/annoying side for comfort with glasses after a few hours of gaming. So just looking at alternatives if possible. Pretty sure too that sound quality isn't great either. So just looking for something of a step up you know what I mean?
   
  Sounds to me though that the K702 may be the best bet. With open headphones though do sounds from the outside and whatever you are listening to leak out if it's loud in the Annies or are they fairly good for sound blocking? May mean I should go with the closed MMX 300s if they are. Just gotta see if I can find a good deal for one or the other pending what I go with.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Both overpriced, but the K702 are based on a better headphone IMO.
> 
> To clarify, the MMX 300 is a glorified DT 770 with a nice mic, and the K702 is the Q701 with a better headband and memory foam pads.


 
   
  The memory foam pads really change the sound signature, though, so that is something to take into consideration.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annie is better than the 770, so I'd say it's better than the MMX300. Also, the Annie is on sale at Razor Dog Audio for $350. That's a damn good price for it. Haters be damned.

Super comfort, great all rounder.


----------



## Evshrug

adrelion said:


> @Mad Lust - Sounds to me like you may want to see if the company can replace your dedicated gfx card. Sounds faulty to me if you are swapping and getting a black screen issue even after formatting. I'm assuming you updated drivers and what not as well for it.




Yeah, but it's his third laptop from Alienware/Dell. I personally made up my mind that a desktop + tablet covers all my bases, and obviously it is easier to troubleshoot, repair (and manufacture) desktop components, but I can see how some people still feel they need a laptop.

I'm just pissed at the subscription method Adobe is taking with the industry standard tools for Graphic Designers, now I may never be able to afford keeping up with the latest requirements and breaking into the field.



adrelion said:


> Ya not saying they are not overpriced but I also am looking for some comfortable headphones/headset. I wear glasses and the current headset I have the Logitech G930s are kind of on the heavier/annoying side for comfort with glasses after a few hours of gaming. So just looking at alternatives if possible. Pretty sure too that sound quality isn't great either. So just looking for something of a step up you know what I mean?
> 
> Sounds to me though that the K702 may be the best bet. With open headphones though do sounds from the outside and whatever you are listening to leak out if it's loud in the Annies or are they fairly good for sound blocking? May mean I should go with the closed MMX 300s if they are. Just gotta see if I can find a good deal for one or the other pending what I go with.




The K701 Annies, K701, K702, and Q701 are open headphones. You'll still hear environmental noise and conversations around you in real life, and others will know you're listening to music (and maybe sing along). I've never found closed headphones (like the DT770) to isolate enough noise when I really want to shut out the world (for that I use IEMs), but they do a fair job of keeping your music/gaming private. Having only open headphones (besides my IEMs) has never been a problem for me, they are as a rule clearer and more refined than closed headphones I've heard.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I've never found closed headphones (like the DT770) to isolate enough noise when I really want to shut out the world (for that I use IEMs), but they do a fair job of keeping your music/gaming private.


 
  The HD280s do amazingly well at isolation


----------



## Evshrug

$50 says they don't cut as many decibels isolation as the Etymotic IEMs I have. My dad literally was shouting at me in a crowded expo while I was testing the Ety's out, and I asked him if he was just mouthing at me as a joke without making any noise.


----------



## Evshrug

Double posties.

The HD280 are the famous but also infamously tight clampy studio headphones, right? They would indeed be better than average, but Ety's are like very good earplugs.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> $50 says they don't cut as many decibels isolation as the Etymotic IEMs I have. My dad literally was shouting at me in a crowded expo while I was testing the Ety's out, and I asked him if he was just mouthing at me as a joke without making any noise.


 
  Well of course they don't isolate as well as Etys, but they do isolate better then the IEMs I've had the chance to own.


----------



## chicolom

Currently revisiting the AKG K240. 
   
  I'll have some impressions up in a bit....
   
  Also, I went to another Head-Fi meet over the weekend and will post some impressions on the HD650, Stax SR-303, Denon D2000/5000, HE300, and a couple others...


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Did you get 3.2? It's a complete turnaround for me, compared to what I originally reviewed. After I review the PLYR1, the Mad Dogs are getting updated. This time, it's considerably more favorable. I absolutely love the new MD.


 
  I did not, an since when did you become an contributor Mad, grats to ya
   
  Non the less, I did not get the revision. I got 3.0 I hear that 3.2 is a little tighter and brighter, but overall it is still a dark can. Which isn't a bad thing! I still intended to buy them when I get on my feet!
   
  Non the less, sadly my xb 700s are doing pretty well on the Ebay. I'm pretty confident they'll sell for what I wanted... it's a shame I couldn't get them to sell here <.< non the less I should b back into purchasing cans soon! Hoping to start doing some reviews for companies to!  would be a neat way to exapand mah knowledge!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> The HD280s do amazingly well at isolation


 

 They also clamp your head to the point that you bleed out of every orifice on your body (especially the nether regions) within 15 seconds of wearing them and the sonics (if you can call them that) are like a speaker muffled from under several pillows. You know the fairy tale The Princess and the Pea? The HD 280 is the pea and MLE is the princess who felt it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> They also clamp your head to the point that you bleed out of every orifice on your body (especially the nether regions) within 15 seconds of wearing them...


 
   
  LOL


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> They also clamp your head to the point that you bleed out of every orifice on your body (especially the nether regions) within 15 seconds of wearing them and the sonics (if you can call them that) are like a speaker muffled from under several pillows. You know the fairy tale The Princess and the Pea? The HD 280 is the pea and MLE is the princess who felt it.




The 280 Pro... *shivers*

I think I still feel phantom pains from wearing that for a few days.

Looks like I'll have to deal with Dell directly to get my problem fixed, as the 3rd party won't give me a refund. Should've known. It works 100% fine, just the gfx switch won't work on my laptop screen, but on external devices it works fine. Also, the computer switches to the amd card when high performance, but it's case by case basis. As soon as I'm in not in the program, windows defaults to the integrated card. Kind of hard to optimize. A problem that would be circumvented if my stupid dedicated card would just work properly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why didn't anyone get their X1 gifted from Europe? Taxiation that bad?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyways, looks like I'm keeping the comp. It does play games quite well. Sleeping Dogs on all max except Anti-Aliasing on normal was running smooth as butter.

Any single player games with controller support I should look into?

Considering Bioshock infinite, Tomb Raider, DmC.

Also, I really need to do some way to map the mouse and keyboard into my controller... I really wanna play Mass Effect 2 and 3 on the PC...


----------



## adrelion

@evshrug thank you for the info. I'll probably check out the iems you spoke of as well. I mean I don't really mind the idea of open just was wondering how much noise really leaks out or in in comparison.

Any recommendations for sound cards though to pair with one of these headphones? Would the Asus Xonar STX be fine? 

@madlust Ewww to dell/alienware laptops. Had too many issues with my Dell laptop in the past so I really don't support them at all now. Don't even trust alienware since dell bought them out. I'd rather try a laptop from some other company like Asus or Samsung instead for a gaming laptop at this point due to all the problems I've had in the past. Or even some other third party vendor like maingear, origin, Ibuypower, or voodoo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has an HDMI input, which is the only reason I bought it over other laptops. You can't find laptops with HDMI inputs.

Anyone using the Recond 3D... how the hell do I set up the virtual surround for pc use? Sigh, this is one good reason why I don't bother with PC gaming.


----------



## HaVoC-28

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It has an HDMI input, which is the only reason I bought it over other laptops. You can't find laptops with HDMI inputs.
> 
> Anyone using the Recond 3D... how the hell do I set up the virtual surround for pc use? Sigh, this is one good reason why I don't bother with PC gaming.


 
  Recon 3d a realtek like cheap by creative  
   

  The surround cursor should be the "thing" to play with .
   
  And on speackers/headphones choose headphone ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tried all that, still sounds like stereo. I know THX tru Studio is capable of sounding a lot like the Dolby Headphone...


----------



## daleb

roguegeek said:


> They also clamp your head to the point that you bleed out of every orifice on your body (especially the nether regions) within 15 seconds of wearing them and the sonics (if you can call them that) are like a speaker muffled from under several pillows. You know the fairy tale The Princess and the Pea? The HD 280 is the pea and MLE is the princess who felt it.



Bah, you guys have weak skulls, i cant even feel it


----------



## NinjaSushi2

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> To clarify, it's W3000ANV > W1000X > Q701 for gaming. The W1000X with J$ Beyerdynamic pads gets surprisingly close to the Q701's width and depth, while having better imaging. Haven't tried the W3000ANV with the Beyer pads yet.
> 
> That said, the Q701 is a must-buy at the sub-$200 used price point.
> 
> ...


 
  I agree. My Q701 are my favorite headphones as of yet. I've had a few others and yet I ALWAYS wear my Q701 for no matter what I do. Console gaming, PC gaming, music, watching movies, youtube. They are just DAMN nice headphones and unbelievably comfortable. If there is a way to make them more comfortable I must know it!!


----------



## 3X0

I might borrow a pair of DT 880s in the coming weeks and compare them with the other mid-fi headphones. So far, my personal ranking for gaming performance in the mid-fi arena is:
   
  W1000X > Q701 > DT 770 LE > A900X > HD 650 > HF-2
   
  That's only for imaging and competitive advantage with DH, though. For music listening it's more like W1000X > HF-2/HD 650 > Q701 > A900X > DT 770 LE
   
  I'm curious to see where the DT 880 will fit in, since MLE's mention of the rear imaging deficiency concerns me.


----------



## adrelion

Ah that makes sense the hdmi is pretty rare on laptops. Never really looked for that feature so can't recommend any other brands. But hope things work out with it and it needs your needs otherwise. Hopefully the black screen issue can be fixed eventually.


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> Non the less, sadly my xb 700s are doing pretty well on the Ebay. I'm pretty confident they'll sell for what I wanted... it's a shame I couldn't get them to sell here <.< non the less I should b back into purchasing cans soon! Hoping to start doing some reviews for companies to!  would be a neat way to exapand mah knowledge!



No offense Mshenay, I love ya but if you want companies to pay you for reviews, your writing will have to change from 4chan to professional and become more clear and correct in grammar and spelling.





adrelion said:


> @evshrug thank you for the info. I'll probably check out the iems you spoke of as well. I mean I don't really mind the idea of open just was wondering how much noise really leaks out or in in comparison.
> 
> Any recommendations for sound cards though to pair with one of these headphones? Would the Asus Xonar STX be fine?



The Q701, to the bystander, sounds like a small speaker at low volume. Little bit louder than a whisper, at what I consider normal listening volume. The person wearing the Q701 will have about as much noise muffled as pulling an autumn-time shirt over your head, like cornholio.

The Etymotic canalphones I mentioned were the first HiFi headphones I personally owned, they don't make my particular model anymore but Etymotic is a great brand, the first to make IEMs as an extension from hearing aids to become monitors for musicians, and then sold for public consumption. They really do go in your ears like earplugs, which can take some getting used to, but they are detail monsters and can have VERY flat & neutral frequency response since it doesn't interact with your outer ear, but the highest treble tends to roll off sharply, at least my (older) model. Soundstage, as can be expected, is very small and "inside your head," but the imaging – the sense of a sound coming from right *here* in relation to you – is very good because they are so detailed and balanced, so they still work well with surround, binaural, and holographic recordings. Canalphones aren't very casual headphones like earbuds are (but earbuds hurt my ears), canal*buds* are kind of like hybrids that insert a little bit and make a compromise — comfort is VERY subjective among these three types of headphone. Head-Fi member ClieOS has a review round-up of a TON of IEMs if you want more info and choices, but personally I compared price equivalent models from Shure and Etymotic side-by-side, and the SQ and isolation (and comfort, the Shure's olive eartips never worked well or stayed in for me) had a clear winner: the ER•6i for me, and I recommend whatever is their ~$100 descendant.

The Asus ST or STX model indeed ought to be fine, the best choice for a soundcard with Dolby Headphone, though I heard drivers and support can be a pain in the rear. Another option growing in popularity is Creative's Z-series gaming cards, instead of DH they use their own new version of surround processing called SBX, and from the reviews it seems like people are happier about the drivers and game support. Whether DH or SBX or another surround DSP sounds better is up to your ears and tastes.





daleb said:


> Bah, you guys have weak skulls, i cant even feel it




There is a word from the 90's, I think it is an applicable retort here: you numbskull


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> There is a word from the 90's, I think it is an applicable retort here: you numbskull


 
  Meh, my skull is about twice as thick as the average skull, anyways. I often have things fall on the top of my head and don't notice until I see it. I like one of the explanations given by a user on this website: the less vitamin D you have, the more sensitive your Parietal bone (part of the skull) is.


----------



## shankdude

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Been away for a while; Steam (and windows troubleshooting) have kept me busy.
> Shankdude,
> I don't know if you'll read this, but I would advise NOT to buy the HD201. I gifted a pair to my mom, but they were not comfortable for both of us, and the sound wasn't very special. They are available for like $15 in the USA... if that's your budget, you really have few options. The HD202 is worth the extra money, based on comfort alone. It was actually a fun headphone to listen to — though treble suffered from some distortion (and sound is overall not very refined), this is actually a very good sounding headphone among low-price options. I personally used a Sennheiser PX100 for about 6 years, and I was pretty happy with those. I still have them and they work well, but I need to replace the foam ear cushions, they have basically worn through.
> 
> ...


 

 Hey thanks for the reply 
 even though i was expecting more no of replies but it seems that only you replied 
  I can get HD 202 too but do they provide same surround and do good job at competitive gameplay like HD 201's? 
 because i didnt hear much of then in gaming forums ,all i heard about were 201's
  and BTW thanks for suggestions 
 but koss , jvc etc have warranty issues in my country as they are generally imported from USA
 so can u please suggest me headphones from brands like Sennheiser, Sony, Creative, Phillips, Panasonic 
 in the range of about 50 $
 also i will be getting Xonar U3 usb sound card for gaming on my lappy 
 willl that do the job ?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





adrelion said:


> Ah that makes sense the hdmi is pretty rare on laptops. Never really looked for that feature so can't recommend any other brands. But hope things work out with it and it needs your needs otherwise. Hopefully the black screen issue can be fixed eventually.


 
  I'd suggest Acer, they are easily my favorite laptop company, and mine does have an HDMI port.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It has an HDMI input, which is the only reason I bought it over other laptops. You can't find laptops with HDMI inputs.
> 
> Anyone using the Recond 3D... how the hell do I set up the virtual surround for pc use? Sigh, this is one good reason why I don't bother with PC gaming.


 
   
  I followed Evshrug's information to configure my Recon3D, I like the way it sounds after following his suggestions from this thread. I primarily run mine on OS X, but the system software is the same when I boot into windows.
   
  The rest lies in the in-game audio settings.


----------



## Evshrug

shankdude said:


> Hey thanks for the reply
> even though i was expecting more no of replies but it seems that only you replied
> *We get a LOT of info requests in this thread, however the point of post #1 was to be a review guide of suggested headphones for gaming, so generally the way the thread regulars think is "read the first post, that's what we would recommend anyway." It's not like we're paid to help strangers, but sometimes we like to do it anyway. I don't mind giving you a few suggestions, particularly because you appreciate them. I hope they help, but are you familiar with the saying "scraping at the bottom of the barrel?" There are VERY few suggestions among headphones at the HD201's pricepoint, and that's why some of my suggestions may be stretching your budget. Sorry about your wallet *
> 
> ...



*The Xonar U3 USB soundcard ought to do the job fine, it is an appropriate choice for the headphones you're looking at.

Overall, I hope I helped, and that you are happy with what you can get *





axelcloris said:


> I followed Evshrug's information to configure my Recon3D, I like the way it sounds after following his suggestions from this thread. I primarily run mine on OS X, but the system software is the same when I boot into windows.
> 
> The rest lies in the in-game audio settings.




Thanks for reading my suggestions! Do you think I should revive my suggestions and discussion thread? I actually posted most of the settings in this thread here, and linked to that from my thread, LOL! I liked the way the Recon3D USB sounded too... I honestly miss the thing: If I install an internal soundcard, dual booting between Win & Mac will be a... pain.

And yes, the in-game settings are also significant. In Starcraft II for example, be sure to pick the Recon3D from the devices list, set audio to "Surround," quality to "High," and slide up the number of channels/simultaneous sounds that can play. In every game I imagine you have to point the sound towards the Recon3D and set your surround settings.

I think it's ironic that, right now, Mad has a Recon3D device, and I have a Dolby Headphone device.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

chicolom said:


> Currently revisiting the AKG K240.
> 
> I'll have some impressions up in a bit....
> 
> Also, I went to another Head-Fi meet over the weekend and will post some impressions on the HD650, Stax SR-303, Denon D2000/5000, HE300, and a couple others...




Sounds like you didn't break them in enough on your fist evaluation, looking forward to the results.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> No offense Mshenay, I love ya but if you want companies to pay you for reviews, your writing will have to change from 4chan to professional and become more clear and correct in grammar and spelling.


 
  YUP. I have a nice big BS button I can hit when I need to. But yea... my spelling and grammar are terrible... something I need to work on as I'm about to start working as a Pc Tech... or I can do video reviews since I'm 10x better at public speaking than I am at writing down words...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> I'd suggest Acer, they are easily my favorite laptop company, and mine does have an HDMI port.




HDMI OUTPUT, NOT INPUT

I dunno how people still don't get that.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> HDMI OUTPUT, NOT INPUT
> 
> I dunno how people still don't get that.


 

 Whats that even mean? I haven't read this conversation, I jumped in just with that post 
   
  edit: Wait, a laptop screen can even do that?! Since when did this evolution occur in laptops?


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I want to send you these 840s once I burn them in real decent. I swear they remind me a lot of the M50 but I would like your take on this. I know you are pretty much in the higher tier, nowadays, so I would like to contribute a borderline tier B to the thread (giving people with lower budgets another option on the list).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> Whats that even mean? I haven't read this conversation, I jumped in just with that post
> 
> edit: Wait, a laptop screen can even do that?! Since when did this evolution occur in laptops?




Exactly. A laptop screen that doubles as a monitor for external devices? Yes please. My biggest gripe with the M17x is that the screen isn't as good as my ex's DV8T screen which was amazing, but still, it's decent. That, and the fact the computer has to be on for the HDMI input to work, so even if I don't need the laptop to be on, it has to be on if I wanna play my PS3, etc.


----------



## Naked Snake

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> It's too bad MGO was gone by the time I heard of it. I guess that's because I was only focused on what would be available on the system I had. Still, I wish I had been able to play some Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory in Surround before THAT game's mp shut down. The new SC game's emphasis on action seems to further the direction SC: Conviction was going... I'm going to miss the old voice actor.


 
  Didn't know there were MGO players here, well, the one person that posted 
   
  Evshrug, you can get some idea of what MGO was like with MGS Peace Walker Online. It's very similar, headshot focused and 3rd person shooter, it has a few faults tho, lag being one but if you play with friends and people that have good internet, it's not an issue, also it's only 3vs3 but considering it's just a handheld game ported over to console, it's pretty good and it's about the closest thing to MGO there is right now.
   
  Fair bit of warning here if you do decide to get it, you can only use weapons you unlock in the campaign in the online mode, and I would advise you to unlock some good Rank 5 ARs, namely ADM65 or M16A1 if you want to play the online mode, otherwise you'd be at a pretty big disadvantage. If you or anyone here wants to try it, pm me your PSNs, I'll be happy to guide you through it.
   
  And yes RIP MGO, best shooter ever made.


----------



## chicolom

Here's my *AKG K240 *review*:*
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/664045/akg-k240-studio-comparison-review
   
   


Spoiler: AKG%20K240%20Review



      AKG K240 Studio | Comparison & Review 
 So, I've tested the AKG K240s again.  I say "again" because these were actually my first decent headphone, before the AD700s even.  This was many years ago, back when I barely knew anything about headphones and wasn't aware that sites like Head-Fi existed.  I now have A LOT more experience with different headphones and I can gauge their sound more easily.  
   
    Comfort    

 I'll just get this out of the way and say that unfortunately the comfort is absolutely a deal breaker for me, all because of the shallow pleather pads.  I would never use them for very long in real-life as my ears get hot, itchy, and ache after just a few minutes of wearing them.  I should know since I used to own a pair.  Those same pads pushed me to trade them for another headphone - the CALs.  CALs are definitely comfier with roomier ear cups and better pleather.  You _can _get velours for the K240 (which will no doubt change the sound as well) but I personally never bothered with it as I'm not that invested in them.
      
 Sound   
  The K240s are warm and dark with a thick full sound that's pleasing and non-fatiguing thanks to smoothened highs.  It has a medium sized soundstage with decent imaging.  The signature sounds similar-ish to a slightly warmer-tilted and muffled version of the K702 Anniversary.  There are definitely some technicality deficiencies on the K240s when you compare them to the flagship AKGs (some muddiness, slow speed, smaller soundstage, less separation, worse extension with rolled off highs and sub-bass).  The K240 are 55 ohms and take about 2 less "o'clocks" then the Anniversary on the volume dial.
   
  When compared against the CALs, I find the CALs to be more V-Shaped with sharper treble and stronger bass quantity.  The K240 is more balanced IMO, and I generally prefer their sound.  The CALs are more "fun" though, which makes them more suited for certain genres whereas the K240 are more general "all-rounders."
   
   
 Bass   

 They K240 have a satisfying low-end with decent thump to the bass.  While I wouldn't exactly call them bass-heavy (like I would the CAL!) they might give that impression because of their dark sounding frequency tilt without much high end to balance out the lows.  In reality they're similar to the anniversary and HD650 in terms of bass amount - a little tasteful emphasis but not really a "bass-heavy" emphasis.  The Anniversaries do have just a bit more bass quantity, but it's also lot faster, tighter, and of a higher quality.  The K240's bass is a bit slow and doesn't have great texture or variety to its sound (not that I'm expecting it to at its price!). The K240 definitely has more bass then the Q701.  The CAL has stronger bass then either AKG (the CAL is officially "bass-heavy" IMO).  I personally think the CAL has a little too much bass for most gaming (to the point where it can be obtrusive.)
  
 Mids   

 The mids are pretty thick, full, and warm/dark sounding.  I think they stand out a little bit more because there isn't as much treble to balance them out.
   
   
 Treble   

 The treble is a little rolled of and recessed.  The Anniversaries are noticeably airier, and that's kind of saying something as the anniversaries are already on the warmer side of the spectrum for me.  I _personally _need more air than the K240 have to offer, especially for things like Classical music.  This rolled off high end makes them sound a bit muffled at times, but it does give them a smooth non fatiguing signature.  You'll be bothered by something else (_pads_!) before the treble bothers you.
  
 Soundstage   
   

 The soundstage is medium sized and imaging is pretty decent.  Sounds transition fairly smoothly through the space.  The imaging tries to behave in a similar style to how the x70x images, but it simply doesn't have the same soundstage space or separation to work with, so it comes of sounding a little unremarkable in the end.   I think it does a pretty good job of imaging with what it's given to work with though.
   

 The K240 soundstage is larger than the CAL, and I find the imaging is better too (I find the CAL a bit un-smooth and jumpy when panning around).  I would recommend the K240 over the CAL for gaming (although K240 is _semi-open_, and CAL is _closed_ - so they're not exactly in the same category).
   

 I'm 99% sure the HD5xx beats the K240 for soundstage size and accuracy (seeing as the PC360 had an excellent soundstage that held it's own against the Q701).  So I wouldn't really recommend the K240 for competitive gaming.  For single player though, the K240 is full and thick which will give them a more fun and immersive sound at the expense of a less impressive soundstage.
  
   
   
  So to sum up: They're pretty warm with a thick full sound, a bit of fun bass emphasis, and smooth treble.  They have a medium sized soundstage with decent imaging, but nothing spectacular.
  I do like the signature and sound coming from them, but I personally want more air, more soundstage size & separation, and better technicalities (faster articulation, speed, bass quality and texture, greater detail and refinement, etc.) which, guess what...is EXACTLY what the Anniversary gives me.
   
  ...Also, did I mention I hate the pads?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyways, looks like I'm keeping the comp. It does play games quite well. Sleeping Dogs on all max except Anti-Aliasing on normal was running smooth as butter.
> 
> Any single player games with controller support I should look into?
> 
> ...


 
   
  XInput-native (specially tailored to X360 pads only), or are DirectInput games that you have to set up the controls in-game (to ensure they match up with your gamepad) fine too?
   
  Note that for DirectInput-based games, the stock Xbox 360 controller drivers usually suck for those because you're not given the choice to make the triggers act as split axes or buttons, nor can you adjust the analog stick deadzone at the driver level. You can use XBCD instead, but then you have to finagle with X360CE to get XInput support back. (My solution is simply to use different gamepads, because I've got tons of the things lying around! Probably need to sell some...anyone want a Logitech Dual Action or F710?)
   
  Generally speaking, on the Steam store pages, they do give a good indication of whether or not the game is controller-enabled, and how well. If not, you could give JoyToKey, Xpadder, or even GlovePIE a shot.
   
  Now, as for game recommendations...Dark Souls goes without saying (assuming you don't own the PS3 version already), Binary Domain might be your cup of tea and has painfully gamepad-oriented menus (you don't even have a mouse cursor when playing with KB+M!), Serious Sam's a blast if you like classic "kill everything else that moves" shooters, and some of the recent PC releases in the Ys series are also sold on Steam these days if you're looking for action-JRPGs.
   
  While the Mass Effect PC releases strangely don't seem to have a gamepad control option, I definitely recall a fan patch for ME1 restoring the old gamepad controls. Might want to look into that.
   
  Of course, it would help somewhat if our tastes meshed together a bit better and you weren't so anti-KB+M...that, and a lot of the other games I could suggest were made for flight sticks (paired with throttles and rudder pedals, ideally), not gamepads.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It has an HDMI input, which is the only reason I bought it over other laptops. You can't find laptops with HDMI inputs.
> 
> Anyone using the Recon3D... how the hell do I set up the virtual surround for pc use? Sigh, this is one good reason why I don't bother with PC gaming.


 
   
  You actually have a Recon3D USB? Didn't think you ran out and bought one after that review...hell, I would have offered mine again! (Dropping to $60 shipped, if by some chance anyone out there is still interested.)
   
  First things first (assuming you installed the drivers already): right-click your volume control icon in the lower-right system tray/notification area, click "Playback devices", click on the item in the list that corresponds to the Recon3D USB, click the "Configure" button, and set it to 5.1/7.1 Surround there, otherwise all it's getting is stereo.
   
  Then you open up the Recon3D's control panel, and make sure that the Surround option is on. It defaults at around 67%, but you might find it better-sounding if you jacked it all the way up to 100%, for all I know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no. My soundcard is the Recon 3Di or whatever. It has the same thing as the USB one.


----------



## shankdude

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> *The Xonar U3 USB soundcard ought to do the job fine, it is an appropriate choice for the headphones you're looking at.
> 
> Overall, I hope I helped, and that you are happy with what you can get
> 
> ...


 
  Thank you Evshrug 
  i will go with the sennheisers
 problem with importing things from US is that i dont get any warranty on them here in my country
 so even if i extend my budget to lets say 60 to 70 $
  can i have a few more sennheisers to choose from (please list all headphones that can be considered above HD 202s) ?
 and also since i am tight on budget 
 What would be better buying cheap headphones along with usb soundcard (Xonar U3)
  or buying a good set of headphones which arent that cheap and neglecting the soundcard (i might buy it some day later) ?
 considering i have to play competitive CS 1.6 on my laptop
 or may be an unknown PC during lan parties.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





shankdude said:


> Thank you Evshrug
> i will go with the sennheisers
> problem with importing things from US is that i dont get any warranty on them here in my country
> so even if i extend my budget to lets say 60 to 70 $
> ...


 
   
  I personally would recommend getting well performing budget headphones with the U3. The U3 will allow for Dolby Headphone processing which you won't get direct from most laptops. I've seen a few with Dolby Home Theater on them, which includes DH, but they're pretty uncommon. And quality surround processing is definitely something I don't want to miss out on if able. There are some pretty decent hitters out there for under $30 that would work with the U3 to keep your total purchase under $60, assuming you can get prices for the same as here in America while maintaining the warranty.


----------



## Evshrug

Well AxelCloris, I think he's specifically asking for the names of those heavy hitters you're mentioning. I mentioned the few I have had personal positive experience with, but I'm sure others would be interested in other "heavy hitters" at those price ranges.


----------



## Nurse13

I have a question that i dont feel needs a new thread. Its quite stupid really, but i m curious.
   
  I desire a new sound card, preferably creative sound blaster x-fi HD (one with CMSS-3D) to go along with my AKG Q701. I know that card cant power these cans  so i looked at head and seen people suggest Fiio E9 for those on a budget (in nursing school trying to make thing meet). My question is, how do these two actually connect? Like i've looked a pictures but i dont get it. I dont want to buy not compatible parts is what im getting at.
   
  Why? Uhm i want to sell my Xonar essence STX, i do not like it and i have never, yes never been happy with it. If anyone wants it I will sell  it(pm me). I'm on break for a week, went to a friends house and heard how amazing video games sound. I mean, wow, i know i have been busy and all and video games look/sound different after an extended absence, but bf3 never sounded so good on this computer, he runs a similar card that i listed. I am totally jealous to the point i must have one for later this summer after i finish my 8wks of hell.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm currently writing in my PLYR 1 review while at work. Need just a bit more time with them to finalize the review, but it's looking good so far.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> No, no. My soundcard is the Recon 3Di or whatever. It has the same thing as the USB one.


 
   
  Oh, right...probably Creative's successor to the X-Fi MB2 software suite, if I had to guess.
   
  You'll have to look through the control panel and see if you can set it to Headphones somehow while the Windows speaker setting remains at 5.1 or 7.1. That's generally the key, even before you start fiddling around with the Surround slider.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It literally looks exactly like the Recon 3D USB in terms of functions. the only diff being there is no 'virtual surround button) to manually touch.

I set my the device to 5.1 surround on the playback devices, and on the THX Tru Studio software, I set it to headphones. I'm still not sure it's gonna function right.

It does sound processed when I switch to 5.1, so it looks like I'll have to manually switch back to 2 channel when listening to music.

ugh, i don't get it.


----------



## shankdude

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I personally would recommend getting well performing budget headphones with the U3. The U3 will allow for Dolby Headphone processing which you won't get direct from most laptops. I've seen a few with Dolby Home Theater on them, which includes DH, but they're pretty uncommon. And quality surround processing is definitely something I don't want to miss out on if able. There are some pretty decent hitters out there for under $30 that would work with the U3 to keep your total purchase under $60, assuming you can get prices for the same as here in America while maintaining the warranty.


 
  okay 
 so can you please list them 
 please list those budget performers you are talking off and also the headphones upto budget of around 60 $ 
 again sennheisers are the most preferable brand here in my country 
 so i would prefer them over any other brands . 
 Thank You


----------



## Christo4

Can anyone recommend some good headphones for gaming with good soundstage that are closed? From what I've read good ones are SRH 940 and AKG k550, DT770 not an option bc if it's sibilance (had DT880, didn't like it). Anything else that is worth considering or any advice on which would be better?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





christo4 said:


> Can anyone recommend some good headphones for gaming with good soundstage that are closed? From what I've read good ones are SRH 940 and AKG k550, DT770 not an option bc if it's sibilance (had DT880, didn't like it). Anything else that is worth considering or any advice on which would be better?


 
   
  Some people like A900X and the other higher up closed Audio Techinicas (W1000X).  Denon 7000.


----------



## Christo4

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Some people like A900X and the other higher up closed Audio Techinicas (W1000X).  Denon 7000.


 
  Hmm forgot about the A900x, that is pretty good, but the others are too much for me.
   
  Any other recommendations?


----------



## Evshrug

christo4 said:


> Hmm forgot about the A900x, that is pretty good, but the others are too much for me.
> 
> Any other recommendations?



Creative Aurvana Live!, they're a Denon rebrand


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Creative Aurvana Live!, they're a Denon rebrand


 
  Technically Fostex is the OEM but pretty much...and they use bio-cellulose technology in their driver.  They've got a very fun sound, I picked up a pair for my brother for music and gaming (non-competitive) and he's been enjoying them quite a bit.  MLE's review of them is fairly accurate I'd say.


----------



## Christo4

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Creative Aurvana Live!, they're a Denon rebrand


 
   
  Yeah I've heard of it, but i was hoping for something better that's why i said something like AKG k550 or Shure Srh 940.
  I was looking a bit to see how easy it is to get A900x in Europe, it's just through imports so it will take too much to arrive, i want to purchase something next week. Didn't like DT 880 so i don't think that i will like DT 770.
  I'd pick something from K550 or SRH940, but from reading on the forums opinions are so different, some say one is better some say the other one is better. SO frustrating...
  Thank you for the suggestions so far guys, is there anything else i should consider, or any advice on these headphones?


----------



## Zaruk

I am an utter and complete novice when it comes to audiophilia (is that right?). My current set (http://goo.gl/Mk0AS Turtle Beach X12) is working fine, but I want something a little higher end, so I thought, If you want something done right, go to the pros. My budget is $80-$85 max, no higher than $90 once the mic is factored in. And yes, I do require a mic and good gaming quality. My options are: $50-$60 headphones + Antlion Modmic, $70-$80 Headphones + Zalman (or other clip-on), or $80-$90 Headset. Also, I want it to be semi-open or closed, as bleeding or leaking could be an issue, but some is alright. Suggestions? Which should I go for (I listen to the games, as well watch YouTube & listen to music a lot, too, but a decent mic is still wanted), or should I stick with the X12's?
While I have been getting some help elsewhere, this thread is a fair bit more active than most any others, so... Help. The two I am leaning towards are the Sony MDR V6 + Antlion Modmic, or the Skullcandy SLYR. So, which is better for gaming or are there any other better ones for the price?
I know the CALs are highly recommended, but they seem flimsy. Am I a fool in thinking this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So i spoke with the company that I bought the laptop from, and they're switching it out for a new one with the Nvidia 680m. No more AMD driver BS. That's the last AMD anything I buy.

I just have to ship it back, and they'll immediately send a new one. Guess I gotta wait another week, lol.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So i spoke with the company that I bought the laptop from, and they're switching it out for a new one with the Nvidia 680m. No more AMD driver BS. That's the last AMD anything I buy.
> 
> I just have to ship it back, and they'll immediately send a new one. Guess I gotta wait another week, lol.


 

 Wait, it was AMD messing up? That's really strange, I never have any problems with AMD...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> I am an utter and complete novice when it comes to audiophilia (is that right?). My current set (http://goo.gl/Mk0AS Turtle Beach X12) is working fine, but I want something a little higher end, so I thought, If you want something done right, go to the pros. My budget is $80-$85 max, no higher than $90 once the mic is factored in. And yes, I do require a mic and good gaming quality. My options are: $50-$60 headphones + Antlion Modmic, $70-$80 Headphones + Zalman (or other clip-on), or $80-$90 Headset. Also, I want it to be semi-open or closed, as bleeding or leaking could be an issue, but some is alright. Suggestions? Which should I go for (I listen to the games, as well watch YouTube & listen to music a lot, too, but a decent mic is still wanted), or should I stick with the X12's?
> While I have been getting some help elsewhere, this thread is a fair bit more active than most any others, so... Help. The two I am leaning towards are the Sony MDR V6 + Antlion Modmic, or the Skullcandy SLYR. So, which is better for gaming or are there any other better ones for the price?
> I know the CALs are highly recommended, but they seem flimsy. Am I a fool in thinking this?


 

 So I went digging around for stuff on the CAL, and found this thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/433318/shootout-107-portable-headphones-reviewed-astrotec-as-100hd-as-200hd-added-12-02-12
   
  In it (if you control + f for B3) you'll find a review of the CAL.

*Build Quality (7/10):* The Creative Aurvana Live! is a well-built headphone but doesn’t exude the same air of solidity as the K81dj and HA-M750. The plastics feel sturdy and well-made. The glossy black cups and chrome trim are fingerprint magnets but the grime isn’t too visible on them (unlike, for example, the ATH-ES7). The stainless steel headband is padded and the cabling is nice and thick, rubberized to prevent tangling and short enough for portable use. An extension cable is included. On the downside, the CAL! are neither collapsible nor flat-folding, so calling them portables is contingent entirely on their having a shorter cable and being easily driven.
   
  How often are headbands made of stainless steel? I don't think I've ever even heard of that before!
   
  Edit: Oh, I didn't even notice I had posted once before, sorry about that.


----------



## Zaruk

Oh, wow. They seem a lot more durable than they look.


----------



## Zaruk

Now, what do you guys think I should get for my actual set?


----------



## fidler

Hey,
  
 I'am looking to get some cheap price, may be even secondhand headphones to watch movies.
 
 With Movies I guess the midrange is vital, so is the low end.
 Mainly going to be used for movies, no musical requirements here.
  
 I have tried the Sennheisser wireless ones, and they sound rubbish.
 I know corded headphones are the way to go even with TV viewing.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Hey all,
   
  After studying this thread for some time, I have been a happy "Annie" owner for 5 months now but, I was curious if anyone owning/owned the HE-400 have installed the velour pads along w/ Jerg's grill mod described here:http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-he400-he500-re-grilling-mod-56k-dial-up-users-beware.  It apparently increases soundstage, so I am very curious if this gets them closer to the Annie's competitive score is this regard and if anyone has tested this w/ Dolby HP.
   
  I have been playing more and more single player games since Treyarch raped BLOPS2 of hardcore FFA on top of their crappy sound design so I may be interested in getting more "fun" w/ out sacrificing soundstage and positioning for when I have the urge to compete in multiplayer games.
   
  I appreciate any first hand experience anyone can offer.


----------



## fidler

Bump


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

zaruk said:


> I am an utter and complete novice when it comes to audiophilia (is that right?). My current set (http://goo.gl/Mk0AS Turtle Beach X12) is working fine, but I want something a little higher end, so I thought, If you want something done right, go to the pros. My budget is $80-$85 max, no higher than $90 once the mic is factored in. And yes, I do require a mic and good gaming quality. My options are: $50-$60 headphones + Antlion Modmic, $70-$80 Headphones + Zalman (or other clip-on), or $80-$90 Headset. Also, I want it to be semi-open or closed, as bleeding or leaking could be an issue, but some is alright. Suggestions? Which should I go for (I listen to the games, as well watch YouTube & listen to music a lot, too, but a decent mic is still wanted), or should I stick with the X12's?
> While I have been getting some help elsewhere, this thread is a fair bit more active than most any others, so... Help. The two I am leaning towards are the Sony MDR V6 + Antlion Modmic, or the Skullcandy SLYR. So, which is better for gaming or are there any other better ones for the price?
> I know the CALs are highly recommended, but they seem flimsy. Am I a fool in thinking this?




The Samson SR850 and CAL are the best choices in that price range, they are both well built for the price. You might not want the Samson if isolation/leakage is a concern.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

fidler said:


> Hey,
> 
> I'am looking to get some cheap price, may be even secondhand headphones to watch movies.
> 
> ...




The Beyerdynamic DT440 is ~$120 new ($80 used) on Amazon and has comparable SQ to the HD 598 and it has better bass, and is easier to drive which is a big plus.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dekimashiita! PROBABLY finished, though I may make some edits.



> *Skullcandy PLYR 1 (*wireless headset*)*
> http://www.skullcandy.com/shop/shop-all
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## benbenkr

Just one question before I pull the trigger on a FiiO E09k.
   
  Currently on a HD558, connected to the PS3 through a TB DSS (the original with DH). Will the E09k be a good choice in complimenting my setup?
   
  I do not have the luxury of gettting a Schiit Magni or an O2 though due to where I live (Malaysia, postage fees + tax will cost a bomb), so yeah both of them are out of the questioni. The E09k is the next best thing I have here without burning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

If you're using the amp with the DSS the improvement will be very minute.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Th 558 is fairly efficient with the exception of having impedance spikes that raise the impedance by a large amount. The E9K will help with that.


----------



## Zaruk

hifigamer1995 said:


> The Samson SR850 and CAL are the best choices in that price range, they are both well built for the price. You might not want the Samson if isolation/leakage is a concern.



Okay. Between the two, which is better for immersion? I presume it's the Samson. And is there anyone here who has also used the SLYR? Taking the guide into account, it seems to be quite exemplary, but I don't know.


----------



## Zaruk

Sorry about the copy post. My phone hates me.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I might borrow a pair of DT 880s in the coming weeks and compare them with the other mid-fi headphones. So far, my personal ranking for gaming performance in the mid-fi arena is:
> 
> W1000X > Q701 > DT 770 LE > A900X > HD 650 > HF-2
> 
> ...


 
  Update: I think the DT 880 Premium/250 is the equal of the W1000X in music and gaming, just with wildly different presentations.
   
  I once read the complaint of a gentleman who said the AKG 70X series had a "pinched-out" soundstage: as if you took the left and right ends of the sound field, pinched them and stretched them out (like an obnoxiously affectionate older relative might do with your cheeks). At the time, I didn't understand what this meant. Listening to the DT 880 makes this rather obvious. The imaging of the 70X series, IMHO, is too biased towards the left and right extremities. The DT 880 offers a slightly less wide image that appears to have superior specificity as well. I've had no cases of misdirection with the 880's that I had when I use the Q701s.
   
  The sound signature of the DT 880 is remarkably similar to that of the JH13s. Balanced, balanced, balanced. In my opinion, the 880's bass is the best out of the 650/701/880 trio in both quantity and quality, and they are the best of the three when it comes to gaming and all-rounded usage. If the 880 Pro offers the same sound for the ~$200, they are also the best buy of the three IMHO.
   
  I wasn't expected this from Beyer after being overwhelmingly disappointed with the DT 770 Pro/32.
   
  MLE, I'm stunned you preferred the DT 990. I couldn't tolerated that headphone's sucked-out midrange, and I don't hear the deficiency in depth and rear imaging with Dolby Headphone that you speak of for the 880s.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

zaruk said:


> Okay. Between the two, which is better for immersion? I presume it's the Samson. And is there anyone here who has also used the SLYR? Taking the guide into account, it seems to be quite exemplary, but I don't know.




The Samson would be better for immersion because of bigger soundstage and better imaging. It would also be better with competitive because it has better SQ overall with neutral instead of the slightly accentuated bass of the CAL. 

 The SLYR has a small soundstage so you're better off with the Samson or CAL.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> If you're using the amp with the DSS the improvement will be very minute.


 
   
  Except the HD558's impedence fluctuates quite commonly in too many situations... the DSS alone felt a little dull with it.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Th 558 is fairly efficient with the exception of having impedance spikes that raise the impedance by a large amount. The E9K will help with that.


 
   
  Alright, thank you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet, SC is letting me keep the PLYR 1, and I intend to keep them. I like them a helluva lot for music, it's wireless capabilities and longer than wide cup shape which makes them so much easier to lay down with.

This will probably be my main anime and relaxing headphone. 

They're also the only headset I have, so no more dealing with external mics.


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> Sweet, SC is letting me keep the PLYR 1, and I intend to keep them. I like them a helluva lot for music, it's wireless capabilities and longer than wide cup shape which makes them so much easier to lay down with.
> 
> This will probably be my main anime and relaxing headphone.
> 
> They're also the only headset I have, so no more dealing with external mics.




I use my PLYRs for watching movies while the wife is sleeping. IMO, they are perfect for that.

-Erik


----------



## Zaruk

Unless anyone can object to my decision with a superior alternative, it is decided: I shall buy the Samson SR850- Oh, what is this?
  Ummm.... How does the Superlux 668b compare?
  EDIT: It might seem like I'm beating a dead horse here, but how many of you have used both the above cans, in addition to the SLYR? Consider the horse beaten.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

The 668b is the same headphone, just with an Audio Technica wing headband design.


----------



## Zaruk

Hmmm... Which would you say is more comfortable?


----------



## ztreb185

Im planning to hook up my hd 598s or gr07 mk2s with my ps3.  I dont need a mic so im guessing the dss2 is better than the mixamp but what about audio quality?  Really worth the dolby processing and whatever the dss2 uses or should i just get something like an e17 or e9?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





ztreb185 said:


> Im planning to hook up my hd 598s or gr07 mk2s with my ps3.  I dont need a mic so im guessing the dss2 is better than the mixamp but what about audio quality?  Really worth the dolby processing and whatever the dss2 uses or should i just get something like an e17 or e9?


 
  You're better off getting the original DSS because it has 7.1 surround sound. They changed the DSS2 to virtual surround.
   
  Yes, the dolby processing is critical for surround sound gaming. I tried some stereo gaming the other day and I can now say that I have been spoiled by the Dolby Headphone feature on my mixamp.
   
  Edit: If you search through this thread... this has been mentioned numerous times by MLE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll take the worst Dolby Headphone amp over the best stereo amp if I had to choose one for movies and gaming.


----------



## daleb

I just ordered the JVC HA-S500s. I wonder how well they will work with gaming. Not that I got them for gaming, that's what my Q701s will be for, alongside its many other uses.


----------



## Evshrug

daleb said:


> Wait, it was AMD messing up? That's really strange, I never have any problems with AMD...




They have good hardware, but generally NVIDIA drivers allow for less "Hiccups." SLI scales more smoothly than Crossfire too, but you didn't ask about that.
The video input issues on Mad's laptop were clearly a driver/software problem, though hard to say if that was due to the input drivers (on separate hardware from the video card, I should think) or the drivers translating said input to the graphics card to pass through to the laptop display. *shrug* If the next laptop works, it works, good done yay-whoo right?
I've been very happy with my NVIDIA cards I've used in the past year, though I've only had one problem with the AMD GPUs used in my older Mac laptops. Wait — those were still ATI components. I guess I have little experience owning an AMD product. Meh. I'm hoping to try out some PhysX soon, the Tesselation feature added in DX11 was already a very cool upgrade from what I had going before.



change is good said:


> You're better off getting the original DSS because it has 7.1 surround sound. They changed the DSS2 to virtual surround.
> 
> Yes, the dolby processing is critical for surround sound gaming. I tried some stereo gaming the other day and I can now say that I have been spoiled by the Dolby Headphone feature on my mixamp.
> 
> Edit: If you search through this thread... this has been mentioned numerous times by MLE.




Actually, Dolby Headphone IS a type of virtual surround. The DSS2 uses a different DSP to produce virtual surround, and it'll probably vary from user to user what sounds "better." Both convert from a console's 5.1 surround output via Optical, and I think they both have the same potential, dunno which DSP is more advanced. I own the DSS with Dolby, it does a good job.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I just wanted to separately give you kudos for your PLYR 1 review. You're in your stride about how to cover a headphone, and you still manage to report the technical while also managing to make me kinda want to own whatever headphone you praise, if I were to indulge myself. SkullCandy is lucky to have found you 

I was just in BestBuy and saw Astro A40 + Mixamp bundle selling for ~$250, so the PLYR 1 is apparently one of the better wireless headsets, for less money, same Dolby Headphone processing, and "Winner!" Tonal balance... sounds like a good option if you must have wireless. Could someone optionally wire in a headphone into the base station?


----------



## Zaruk

So, get that the semi-open cans are better in terms of sound quality (over the SLYRs) but by what degree/significance? And which is comfier: the Samson SASR850's or the Superlux 668b's?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> So, get that the semi-open cans are better in terms of sound quality (over the SLYRs) but by what degree/significance? And which is comfier: the Samson SASR850's or the Superlux 668b's?


 

 The SR850s... or at least, by looks, they win in the comfort department. I've heard the wing design is very stiff making it uncomfortable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Mad,
> I just wanted to separately give you kudos for your PLYR 1 review. You're in your stride about how to cover a headphone, and you still manage to report the technical while also managing to make me kinda want to own whatever headphone you praise, if I were to indulge myself. SkullCandy is lucky to have found you
> 
> I was just in BestBuy and saw Astro A40 + Mixamp bundle selling for ~$250, so the PLYR 1 is apparently one of the better wireless headsets, for less money, same Dolby Headphone processing, and "Winner!" Tonal balance... sounds like a good option if you must have wireless. Could someone optionally wire in a headphone into the base station?




Thanks, Evs.

That's the only real drawback, you can't hook up another headphone.

As for my latest computer problem, it's more than likely a bad graphics card, as I had the same problem when I downhraded to windows 7 on a fresh install. I just don't like AMDs method of driver updates and the like. The Enduro was real problematic. I was running some demos, and running on Enduro was cutting my framera5e by half over just using the dedicated gfx (which only displayed on external monitors, not the laptop screen.)


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Most people think the SR850's headband is more comfortable because it distributes the weight of the headphone more evenly across the top of the users head. You can also get the AKG K271 velour pads if you don't like the stock vinyl pads, they make the cans much more comfortable and improve the sound a bit too from what I've heard. The difference in SQ won't be gigantic, but it will be significant.


----------



## Zaruk

Hmmm.... And how bad is the sound leakage? How far away would a person have to be to be able to hear what I hear? I say this because, if I do get the SR850's, I will also be getting a Modmic, and I don't want to echo the game...


----------



## Naingolann

daleb said:


> I just ordered the JVC HA-S500s. I wonder how well they will work with gaming. Not that I got them for gaming, that's what my Q701s will be for, alongside its many other uses.




I also received my JVC two-three months ago and I find them incredibly good for watching movies, anime and my favorite FOX series. Still haven't tried them with gaming on either console or PC, but I honestly think that you'll love them (I wrote my first impression in their fan thread if you want to give it a read).

Great review on the PLYR Mad. Very enjoyable read!


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

It shouldn't echo the game unless it's at very loud volumes.


----------



## Zaruk

Then I have decided. I shall be getting the Samson SASR850C headphones and the Antlion Modmic. Thank you guys so much for the help.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

An amp with Dolby Headphone also help a lot.


----------



## Zaruk

Any recommendations?


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

The Astro Mixamp is the best on the market for consoles (assuming you're on Xbox 360 because you have the X12), but it's $130. It's something you should buy down the road.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> Any recommendations?


 

 If you are using a computer for gaming, then you can get a usb sound card like the Xonar U3. You may already have a sound card with virtual surround sound, though.
   
  edit: or maybe the "Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Go! Pro"?


----------



## Zaruk

I typically game on the PC nowadays, and the X12 works on PC as well, but it will become my Xbox 360 set once the  SR850 and Modmic arrive. What meant was if you guys new of any decent sound cards/DACs/Amps that work well for a PC...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> I typically game on the PC nowadays, and the X12 works on PC as well, but it will become my Xbox 360 set once the  SR850 and Modmic arrive. What meant was if you guys new of any decent sound cards/DACs/Amps that work well for a PC...


 

 How about the Xonar DG? Its really cheap for a sound card.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

The Asus Xonar range is one of the best soundcard/amp/DAC ranges out there for PC gaming.


----------



## Zaruk

Yeah... The thing is, my PC doesn't have any -- ----- -- shaped slots in it. What's a good budget USB Amp or something like that... (all my PC has is a ----- -- and a ----- -- -- shaped one. I know this is a weird way of showing off ports, but... Yeah....)


----------



## daleb

I...What? I didn't get that at all! the Xonar U3 is a usb sound card with virtual surround sound.


----------



## Zaruk

Oh, sorry. I was looking at the DG...


----------



## Zaruk

Literal facepalm...


----------



## daleb

I just didnt get what you meant by the "shapes" thing...
  Maybe a PCI-E would fit?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132052
  
  Edit: You don't NEED virtual surround at the beginning, you can get one of these later if need be.


----------



## Zaruk

No, it's some weird port.... The motherboard is old as anything and I should be getting a new PC soon...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> No, it's some weird port.... The motherboard is old as anything and I should be getting a new PC soon...


 

 Oh, its probably an AGP connector then. I had one of those way back when.
   
  Edit: Could it also possibly be a PCI-X?


----------



## Evshrug

zaruk said:


> Any recommendations?



The Turtle Beach DSS is really cheap on eBay, and if your computer can output Dolby Digital Live from an optical output, you can get surround on PC too (it's mainly intended to use with game consoles). The PC-only cheap option is a Xonar U3 by Asus. It's easier to have a do-all Surround Processor for everything if you get a Creative Recon3D USB, I used to have one and liked it a lot, hooked up to my Mac via USB (included native drivers and settings control software) and hooked up to my Xbox 360 via the optical. Head-Fi member NamelessPFG is selling his for ~$60.

Any of the above will pair fine with the Samson's, but if later on you get a hard to drive headphone upgrade, you'll probably also need to double-amp with a separate amp. IMO, cross *that* bridge when/if you get there, though I've found the Recon3D USB and the DSS to be relatively suitable for double-amping.


----------



## Zaruk

No, that's not it...
After further research, the two ones not being used by my graphics card are a PCI and an unknown one...


----------



## Zaruk

evshrug said:


> if your computer can output Dolby Digital Live from an optical output, you can get surround on PC too



How do I find out if it can?


----------



## Evshrug

On another note, my Koss KCS75 Pulse Clips arrived today.

I am seriously impressed for the $9.99 sale price.

Not as rich as the Q701, and the separation between instruments and notes isn't as distinct, but the little Koss is an amazing deal with basically no unpleasant qualities. I didn't compare them side-by-side A/B, but I don't feel dissatisfied after being brain-attuned to the Q701 for a fairly long time. First thing I noticed was it has pretty great impact, listening to Wilco's "Whole Love" you really get a sense of strings being hit and the acoustic guitar pushing sound at you, you feel how hard the musician is playing. Good cans to rock to. I also plugged them into the relatively crappy (re: noisy) aux out of my computer speakers while playing Starcraft II today (I reached #1 in my division today, first time ever Whooray!); the background noise didn't bother me, and what I DID hear was much "fuller" and... more... intense and involving, making my old $80 Sony computer speakers sound laid-back and thin by comparison. Bass presence was much better. Overall if the mid-bass is boosted then the mids are "neutral" ish and the low-trebles slightly lifted. Maybe a little bright, and the sub-bass extension is pretty weak, but songs don't usually try to produce those atmospheric low low notes at the extremes of our hearing range.

The only thing I would say against it, is perhaps the Koss' somewhat forward sound isn't as relaxing and may be tiring to listen to music with for a longer duration (probably done after an album's worth). That said, I played music and games with them for 3.5 hours today, maybe I got used to it but the Koss never seemed harsh or painful. Physically, the clips didn't bother me even though I was also wearing glasses, the way they rotated behind my ear didn't interact much with my glasses stems, and they didn't hurt (though taking them off was kind of like the relief I feel after taking off socks from my feet).

The biggest come-away is how _worthy_ these sound, even fun. Their price begs the question: if you're enjoying yourself and having fun, why pay more? There are reasons, but still I think EVERYONE ought to own one, even if it's just to reference if an upgrade is worth the money.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> No, that's not it...
> After further research, the two ones not being used by my graphics card are a PCI and an unknown one...


 
  Then the Xonar DG will work, as it is PCI, and is the cheapest option!


----------



## kellte2

evshrug said:


> On another note, my Koss KCS75 Pulse Clips arrived today.
> 
> I am seriously impressed for the $9.99 sale price.
> 
> ...




I had very similar initial impressions. For 9.99, they were an absolute steal. The clips are a little loose for my tastes and bending the arms didn't seem to help too much so I might consider the parts express mod - or whatever the other headband that allows you to snap the drivers on.


----------



## Evshrug

zaruk said:


> How do I find out if it can?




Well, if your motherboard has an optical port built-in like my Gigabyte MoBo, then you can get stereo just by plugging in and selecting it from the list of devices. As far as sending DDL encoded 5.1 audio out through there, I haven't figured it out myself. You can select 5.1 speakers in Windows preferences I think, then in your game select 5.1 output (and the optical line-out again, if necessary). That may work, but I'm not the expert since I used the Creative software on my Mac connected to the Recon3D through USB. It may NOT work, because they want you to pay for the license to encode in DDL, which may not have been included in the stuff you've bought. I believe a plug-in for Foobar can allow Dolby headphone for movies and music, but not games.

If you have a desktop with a spare PCI slot, the Xonar DG would also be my recommendation instead of the U3 USB thumbstick.



Kellte,
The clips did feel weird at first, the left one doesn't seem to fit as snugly as the right, but I just got back from a walk while wearing them (and adjusted my impressions), and they don't bother me for their looseness. I also tugged my earlobe through/between the part where the clip and earpad almost meet near the bottom, and they feel more secure now.

Update 1: I noticed the sub bass extension isn't very special... You probably wouldn't notice if you didn't know better, but the lowest notes are decidedly weak and sharply rolled-off after the midbass hump. There's a part of Muse's "Undisclosed Desires," for example, near the end (3:36) where there's like a cello BVreeew and an answering sub-bass atmospheric Thooooom; with the Koss, you might not even notice the Thooooom as not just being part of the background rather than a note in response. One of those things that, when you get really high-end, "you hear things you've never heard before."

Update 2: Kanye West's "Gold Digger" is sonically hard to listen to...


----------



## Zaruk

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Then the Xonar DG will work, as it is PCI, and is the cheapest option!


 
  Hmmm... Good, then. Is the sound quality significantly better compared to a PC's standard audio built-in sound card? I do have a spare PCI.
  EDIT: My PC doesn't even have any optical ports; I just realized that. My older PC did, but this one apparently doesn't. Oh well, I guess I'll get the Xonar DG or something along its lines, and then upgrade from there.
  I apologize for any weird formatting the forum does, as about half of my posts (a specific post: the one about what open slots I have) are made on my phone. Sorry.


----------



## Evshrug

Significant difference in Headphone Surround being an option, cleaner/sweeter DAC with a better S:N (signal to noise ratio), and a more powerful "amp."


----------



## Zaruk

So I guess it is significantly better. For a budget of around $30-$40, is the DG the best?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> So I guess it is significantly better. For a budget of around $30-$40, is the DG the best?


 

 I've never seen anyone suggest otherwise.


----------



## Zaruk

Thanks again for all your help. The Xonar DG it is, then.


----------



## Evshrug

zaruk said:


> Hmmm... Good, then. Is the sound quality significantly better compared to a PC's standard audio built-in sound card? I do have a spare PCI.
> EDIT: My PC doesn't even have any optical ports; I just realized that. My older PC did, but this one apparently doesn't. Oh well, I guess I'll get the Xonar DG or something along its lines, and then upgrade from there.
> I apologize for any weird formatting the forum does, as about half of my posts (a specific post: the one about what open slots I have) are made on my phone. Sorry.



No problem, not really your fault. The system reads a bunch of dashes as a shortcut to draw a dividing line, which can be nice separating topics.

Hope you like your sound card.


----------



## Zaruk

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> No problem, not really your fault. The system reads a bunch of dashes as a shortcut to draw a dividing line, which can be nice separating topics.
> 
> Hope you like your sound card.


 
  I can see where it would be useful.
  As do I!


----------



## Change is Good

It looks like I'm going to be ordering the Annie headband, soon. I can't stand these bumps any longer... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: I can't wait to see how it will look on my black Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kellte2 said:


> I had very similar initial impressions. For 9.99, they were an absolute steal. The clips are a little loose for my tastes and bending the arms didn't seem to help too much so I might consider the parts express mod - or whatever the other headband that allows you to snap the drivers on.




If you remove the drivers then bend, there should be no way they would stay loose. Unless you have baby ears. The metal clips can bend as much as you want.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> It looks like I'm going to be ordering the Annie headband, soon. I can't stand these bumps any longer... :mad:
> 
> Edit: I can't wait to see how it will look on my black Q701.




Good luck removing the headband without breaking something. :blink:

Also, it would've been much cheaper getting the K601 headband which is also flat.


----------



## daleb

Note to self: Don't wear the 280s while you have a headache beforehand. Very, very bad idea...
  (I'm not taking them off though.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, I'd stretch the 280s over a stack of books for like a week... that clamp... nightmares...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Man, I'd stretch the 280s over a stack of books for like a week... that clamp... nightmares...


 

 I've DONE that! the clamp fixes itself after whatever time you left it unclamped. 1 day on book stack? 1 day unclamped. 1 week on books? 1 week unclamped. Then again, they don't have that amazing isolation without the clamp, so I'm completely okay with it. But when I have a headache and I don't even need isolation because its night time... ugh... I shall go on though, because I need me my music!


----------



## Zaruk

daleb said:


> But when I have a headache and I don't even need isolation because its night time... ugh... I shall go on though, because I need me my music!



The things you guys do for sound...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> The things you guys do for sound...


 
   


 What else would we do with our lives? Hang out with friends? Don't be silly.
   
  Also, if this is how it feels to wear 280s by everyone else, I can see why they are hated so much. Ow.
   
  I have some new headphones coming in the mail, though, but sadly they don't really isolate too much, and they definitely do not work for mixing/mastering(which the 280s aren't exceptional at, either, but better).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the Mad Dogs (new ones). They seal amazingly well, are extremely comfy, and sound amazing. I'll be uodating my review of them to account for the differences.

Basically looking at an 8.75 fun, 7.25 competitive.

Looks like the last MD just didnt fit me right. That and it wasn't nearly as engaging as this one.


----------



## Zaruk

daleb said:


> Also, if this is how it feels to wear the 280s by everyone else,, I can see why they are hated so much. Ow.



Can they really be that bad?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. They are literal skullcrushers.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Get the Mad Dogs (new ones). They seal amazingly well, are extremely comfy, and sound amazing. I'll be uodating my review of them to account for the differences.
> 
> Basically looking at an 8.75 fun, 7.25 competitive.
> 
> Looks like the last MD just didnt fit me right. That and it wasn't nearly as engaging as this one.


 

 They have always been at the top of my priority list, but seeing as I need a monitor type pair of headphones, not one for strictly enjoyment, I would rather spend the $300 I have on something that goes well with that. Going into college is making me have to watch my money more then I'd like...


----------



## Zaruk

mad lust envy said:


> Yes. They are literal skullcrushers.



Worse than even the cheap on-ear ones schools have that feel like a vice (and sound like a toaster)?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





zaruk said:


> Worse than even the cheap on-ear ones schools have that feel like a vice (and sound like a toaster)?


 
  Most likely, yes. Many say these have what they call a "vice grip of death." I never even noticed it until I decided to wear them today while I had(have) a migraine. I believe before my often done stretching, they would apply somewhere between 5 to 10 pounds of force. With the constant stretching every so often, I can get them down to a little less then 5, maybe even down to 3 if I use books over night.
   
  Edit: I just tried to see how much force I had to use with my hands to replicate the 280s. I'd say its close to half my full force.
  Edit2: okay nevermind, they are nowhere near half force. They just felt that bad while my migraine was even worse.


----------



## chococya96

Hello, thanks for the wonderful guide.
   
  I have some questions in regarding to certain products:
  I currently have *AKG-K701* with FiiO E10 DAC for my desktop set up. However, I would like a virtual surround device for my PS3 and upcoming PS4. I'm having hard time choosing one between these two devices: *Mixamp pro and DSS2*. Which one should I pick? or is there any other different device I should get?
  Also, please note that I don't really need mic support as I just want a decent device with no issues/problems.
   
  Thank you.


----------



## daleb

How about the Q701s?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Good luck removing the headband without breaking something. :blink:
> 
> Also, it would've been much cheaper getting the K601 headband which is also flat.




Noooo... I wouldn't dare. I'm paying AKG to do it.

I'm getting the Annie headband for $20 more because it will give my Q701 that all black look after I dye the stitching. In the end (pads, black cable, headband, labor) it will all add up to the same price as the Annie. I know... that sounds like alot. Yes, I'm loonie when it comes to my cans. I'll call it my very own Q712 Pro


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Good luck removing the headband without breaking something. :blink:
> 
> Also, it would've been much cheaper getting the K601 headband which is also flat.




Noooo... I wouldn't dare. I'm paying AKG to do it.

I'm getting the Annie headband for $20 more because it will give my Q701 that all black look after I dye the stitching. In the end (pads, black cable, headband, labor) it will all add up to the same price as the Annie. I know... that sounds like alot. Yes, I'm loonie when it comes to my cans. I'll call it my very own Q712 Pro 

Edit: DP


----------



## Change is Good

Quote:  





> making my old $80 Sony computer speakers sound laid-back and thin by comparison.


 
   
  I have the Creative T40s and they're pretty decent for computer speakers.
   
  Edit: They're no bookshelf monitors but do perform well for what they are.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I've DONE that! the clamp fixes itself after whatever time you left it unclamped. 1 day on book stack? 1 day unclamped. 1 week on books? 1 week unclamped. Then again, they don't have that amazing isolation without the clamp, so I'm completely okay with it. But when I have a headache and I don't even need isolation because its night time... ugh... I shall go on though, because I need me my music!


 
   
  All that work to fix what is the most uncomfortable headphone ever and for what? And even if it does become slightly less uncomfortable, what fix do people have up their sleeve to address the worst _sounding_ headphone ever that is absolutely no good for anything? Cut your losses and move onto something that deserves play time.


----------



## daleb

I still completely disagree on that. There are times when I listen to these that music can come pretty close to making me cry out of sheer joy from the beauty of the sound. If these headphones are somehow truly _*bad*_, then what would a good pair even do to me? I don't think that would be good for my health.
   
  Edit:What is so bad about them? I don't get it...
   
  Edit 2: Now that I don't have a headache, these are really comfortable again! I bought some dark blue spray paint to make these things look good enough to take outside.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok guys, let's not put people on the defensive...
I don't honestly know _that_ much about the HD280, other that it's intended for studio use, because it is almost never recommended by virtue (or should I say, _vice_) of it's unusually strong clamping force. I honestly think the people that can wear it have a narrower head, and/or their ear area goes numb from the pressure. I don't usually see people complain about their sound, but I HAVE read reviews where Grados and even Bose are regarded as having superior sound.

The main benefits of the HD280 is strong passive isolation, and durability. Those are "pros" for Pros in the industry. Cons are comfort and compromised soundstage, and the SQ is still below the highly reviewed "best value" headphones even after you take out the "tuned for studio mastering" facet. I wouldn't say they are a BAD headphone, rather I would say they fulfill a very specific need and may be too purpose-biased for the general consumer. IMO, I'd rather have Etymotics for isolation and portability in noisy situations, they're comparatively more comfortable for me than closed supra-aural headphones and scientifically proven to offer much more isolation (like +60 dB I believe), and then have a super-comfy, open, reference headphone to relax to at home.

I think what RogueGeek's main point was one I experienced when I first got into higher end audio: I heard it, and I was immediately like "why did I wait so long?" Same thing with past computer purchases. Learn vicariously from us.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Ok guys, let's not put people on the defensive...
> I don't honestly know _that_ much about the HD280, other that it's intended for studio use, because it is almost never recommended by virtue (or should I say, _vice_) of it's unusually strong clamping force. I honestly think the people that can wear it have a narrower head, and/or their ear area goes numb from the pressure. I don't usually see people complain about their sound, but I HAVE read reviews where Grados and even Bose are regarded as having superior sound.
> 
> The main benefits of the HD280 is strong passive isolation, and durability. Those are "pros" for Pros in the industry. Cons are comfort and compromised soundstage, and the SQ is still below the highly reviewed "best value" headphones even after you take out the "tuned for studio mastering" facet. I wouldn't say they are a BAD headphone, rather I would say they fulfill a very specific need and may be too purpose-biased for the general consumer. IMO, I'd rather have Etymotics for isolation and portability in noisy situations, they're comparatively more comfortable for me than closed supra-aural headphones and scientifically proven to offer much more isolation (like +60 dB I believe), and then have a super-comfy, open, reference headphone to relax to at home.
> ...


 
  Actually, it strongest ability isn't studio use, its DJ use, and it truly is one of the best headphones in the price range for that. It has almost a 5 db boost on the sub bass that kind of cuts through the rest of the sound. When DJing, this allows you to hear exactly when the beat happens, and of course allows you to get into the rhythm of the song for that purpose. For what it was designed for, the 280s do their job perfectly.  Of course it also does great on isolation for a full sized can (I don't know if anyone could pull off DJing with an IEM, really). I'm so used to the sound, though, that it works wonders for me, even if everyone else hates it.
   
  My HA-S500s will be in next week, so we will see if these are really so bad at the price point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Then I'll be getting the Q701s a month from now, so I'll get to finally hear some high end audio!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the 280 Pro is a pretty decent sounding headphone, signature-wise. Well balanced, with no real strengths or weaknesses. It's what I've come to expect of Sennheiser. Workhorse headphones with inoffensive sound quality, and strong clamp, lol.

It just isn't good for virtual surround gaming with it's extremely closed soundstage.

I apologize for the lack of 'proper' review of them. I wrote it when I was starting out this guide, and had obviously not hit my stride in terms of review quantity and quality. All I basically said was that they were uncomfortable and they didn't do well for gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I'm getting the Annie headband for $20 more because it will give my Q701 that all black look after I dye the stitching.
> 
> I'll call it my very own Q712 Pro


 
   
  Post some pics of your Q712s when you get them done!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Post some pics of your Q712s when you get them done!


 
   
  It won't look all that nice because my only camera is my phone... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  But I will still do my best to share a good view of those babies when they're done. I will be ordering the headband this week and send them out to get switched as soon as it gets here. I have to send in the headphone and headband together to avoid confusion. I'm thinking maybe 30 days without my babies...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





change is good said:


> It won't look all that nice because my only camera is my phone...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I think I'd have a heart attack from that.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I'm thinking maybe 30 days without my babies...


 
   
  I know EXACTLY how that feels.


----------



## daleb

Hello. Ive been looking around some more, and now i cant decide whether to get the Q701s still or to get the DT880 pros now... I dont actually play competitive games, just for fun, but i also write music so i need something neutral, i also listen to electronic and orchestral... Choices like this are so hard...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Hello. Ive been looking around some more, and now i cant decide whether to get the Q701s still or to get the DT880 pros now... I dont actually play competitive games, just for fun, but i also write music so i need something neutral, i also listen to electronic and orchestral... Choices like this are so hard...


 
  Seems like you've been looking for a while. Just make a decision and go with it. You've picked out two very high quality mid-fi cans. You wont be upset with either purchase. My opinion is the Q701 is the better can overall and is such an extreme bargain for the sound they produce.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Seems like you've been looking for a while. Just make a decision and go with it. You've picked out two very high quality mid-fi cans. You wont be upset with either purchase. My opinion is the Q701 is the better can overall and is such an extreme bargain for the sound they produce.


 

 Not sure about that.. I know a fair number of people that would be unhappy with the sound either the Q701 or DT 880 produce. Some will call the former unnatural and/or hollow, and some will call the latter strident and/or cold.
   
  And as a counterpoint, I feel the DT 880 is the more capable headphone. I think it would be hard to argue against the DT 880's versatility (if you're comfortable with the sound signature) due to the Q701's relative bass deficiency. They are both priced about the same AFAIK, though the Q701s are cheaper second-hand.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Seems like you've been looking for a while. Just make a decision and go with it. You've picked out two very high quality mid-fi cans. You wont be upset with either purchase. My opinion is the Q701 is the better can overall and is such an extreme bargain for the sound they produce.


 
  I still have 3 weeks until I get whatever I'm going to get, so I have time to still annoy everyone with my constant questioning.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Not sure about that.. I know a fair number of people that would be unhappy with the sound either the Q701 or DT 880 produce. Some will call the former unnatural and/or hollow, and some will call the latter strident and/or cold.
> 
> And as a counterpoint, I feel the DT 880 is the more capable headphone. I think it would be hard to argue against the DT 880's versatility (if you're comfortable with the sound signature) due to the Q701's relative bass deficiency. They are both priced about the same AFAIK, though the Q701s are cheaper second-hand.


 
  My point is someone who hasn't stepped into that $300 open-can range needs to start somewhere and either of those aren't a bad place for that. Need to start identifying your preferences somewhere. As for the DT 880 vs Q701, I'm overtly more of a treble kinda guy, so of course, I lean towards the Q701. That's just my preference.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Not sure about that.. I know a fair number of people that would be unhappy with the sound either the Q701 or DT 880 produce. Some will call the former unnatural and/or hollow, and some will call the latter strident and/or cold.


 
  I have a hard time figuring out what it means to be cold... Some say the 280s are some of the most cold headphones out there, but I still hear tons of emotion in them...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I have a hard time figuring out what it means to be cold... Some say the 280s are some of the most cold headphones out there, but I still hear tons of emotion in them...


 
  http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> My point is someone who hasn't stepped into that $300 open-can range* needs to start somewhere* and either of those aren't a bad place for that. Need to *start identifying your preferences* *somewhere*.


 
   
  x2
   
  It's good to research and research some more to narrow down which headphone you think will be the best fit for you, but eventually you've got to just try them yourself though. 
   
  There's no substitute for actually wearing a headphone and using it for a while.  That's why the FS forum here is always bustling and full of headphones for sale.  People just have to try them out, and if they don't like them they just sell them to move on to another headphone.  That's how Head-fi works, and it's completely normal.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


 
  Its missing a lot of words I'd expect to be in there...
  What I really don't get is how a highly detailed sound is not musical.... People saying that a headphone being analytical makes it bad... I don't get that. And I really don't understand how the DT880s are supposed to sound other then neutral. They don't have anywhere near as many reviews as I'd expect, and its hard to get a picture of its sound signature in my mind compared to the Q701s. Of course expectations will be off from what it is, but I don't want to go into these on a blind purchase...


----------



## Evshrug

daleb said:


> Its missing a lot of words I'd expect to be in there...
> What I really don't get is how a highly detailed sound is not musical.... People saying that a headphone being analytical makes it bad... I don't get that. And I really don't understand how the DT880s are supposed to sound other then neutral. They don't have anywhere near as many reviews as I'd expect, and its hard to get a picture of its sound signature in my mind compared to the Q701s. Of course expectations will be off from what it is, but I don't want to go into these on a blind purchase...



Well, I haven't heard the DT880 myself, FWIH it's not MORE bassy, just it has less low-bass roll off (almost none). I want to try them too, and a month or so back a local head-fi'er contacted me and wanted to share auditions, but he ended up being busy on the set day, and then he ended up not free the next week, then... he discovered anti-gravity and fell off the face of the earth? I'd still like to hear (and feel the comfort of) them some day.

Regarding why analytical USUALLY is anti-musical, the thinking is a lot like when people caution against gear obsession and lose sight of music and audio. If you're picking apart all the technical details and separating all the instruments, then most would lose sight of the effect of the whole ensemble, how they compliment eachother; and frankly sometimes when it's too tight and controlled, then it feels like something is being held back from ROCKING OUT!, and it's just not as exciting. My AD700 had it's moments where it had me really involved and could make some things sound startlingly realistic and present for a moment, BUT some music sounded flat-out boring, like the Arcade Fire's "Suburbs" album which mostly sounds AWESOME and gets my feet twitching when I listen with the Q701, and the HD202 I first heard it on. True story: I first heard the album on borrowed HD202s (cheap Sennheiser) while washing dishes at Panera, I listened straight through with the album on repeat well past the point the headphones started hurting my ears (they went numb eventually), but when I got home and listened with the fairly analytical AD700 (from the same iPod source), I got bored. That album never sounded very exciting on those AD700.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> like the Arcade Fire's "Suburbs" album which mostly sounds AWESOME and gets my feet twitching when I listen with the Q701.


 
  I love that album. My Annies make it that much better.


----------



## Evshrug

murder mike said:


> I love that album. My Annies make it that much better.




Woot!
Have you heard Wilco "Whole Love" or "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" albums? So good


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Regarding why analytical USUALLY is anti-musical, the thinking is a lot like when people caution against gear obsession and lose sight of music and audio. If you're picking apart all the technical details and separating all the instruments, then most would lose sight of the effect of the whole ensemble, how they compliment eachother; and frankly sometimes when it's too tight and controlled, then it feels like something is being held back from ROCKING OUT!, and it's just not as exciting.


 
   
  Then I've never listened to a song, and frankly, I wouldn't want to. When I listen to music, I hear every note as I would see it on sheet music, I hear all the EQs the producer used, I hear the entire process, all of the sweat and blood that went into the song. Its so exciting to me. I'm getting some more "musical" headphones soon, so I'll see if I wasted my money there.
   
  When songs are played in the background of things, I get really distracted because I can't stop focusing on it. I can't just listen to music and sit still.
   
  Edit: I just realized the reason I boost my treble by 6 db is not because I like treble, but because it gives off a false sense of detail. My 280s aren't detailed enough for me.


----------



## minion1990

Hello guys - i need your help please.
   
  I'm planning to buy some headphones for gaming with good positioning and music (80's, 90's, Rock, synthie pop, classic and jazz).
  Which of these should i take?
  (btw. its ridicuosly that these headphones would be cheaper for me to ship from USA then buying in Vienna or in an austrian web shop)

 AKG K701 (260 $ in Austria)
 AKG Q701 (335 $ in AUT
 AKG K702 Annie (740 $ in AUT)
   
  or should i wait upon the AKG K612 or K712 Pro (do they have memory foam pads?)
   
  any suggestions? - is the positioning of the K601/612 worse than of the K7xx?
   
  thx


----------



## Change is Good

Has anyone here tried the SoundMAGIC HP100 for gaming? I ended up returning the 840 and getting these instead, and I must say... WOW! For a closed can it has a very good soundstage and is extremely fun.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like a bass heavy closed can... which is pretty standard fare nowadays.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> Hello guys - i need your help please.
> 
> I'm planning to buy some headphones for gaming with good positioning and music (80's, 90's, Rock, synthie pop, classic and jazz).
> Which of these should i take?
> ...


 

 Depends on whether you would find the bumps on the headband uncomfortable. If not, get the Q701s, then if the bass isn't enough for you, buy the Annie pads.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like a bass heavy closed can... which is pretty standard fare nowadays.


 
   
  I don't know, man. All the other closed cans I've tried don't have this kind of soundstage. Well, at least in my price range...
   
  Also, I wouldn't call it bass heavy... it's slightly above neutral.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> AKG K701 (260 $ in Austria)
> AKG Q701 (335 $ in AUT
> AKG K702 Annie (740 $ in AUT)
> 
> ...


 

 The anniversaries are not worth 2.5x the price of the regular x70x.  If you can't get the anniversaries for ~$100 usd more than the Q701, just get the Q701 and then get the memory foam pads separate.  The new K701s may also sound like the Q701s.

   
  K712 should be the anniversary in a different color scheme.  The K612 (K601) doesn't have memory foam and sounds different than the K70x.  I'm not to familiar with how they sound though.


----------



## chicolom

BTW, just a heads up that FiiO has a new device that's designed for quickly comparing headphones, amps, DACs, etc.
   
  It's called the FiiO HS2. 
  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=515686658488872&set=a.407021432688729.95967.261372647253609&type=1
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/659603/introduction-about-hs2-headphone-signal-switcher
   
  It can be had for $20 shipped, is about the size of the E10, and comes with 4 mini-to-mini interconnects.  FYI there is nothing on the market like this for this price.  That's why FiiO made it - they needed one for themselves but there's couldn't find any on the market so they just made their own.
   
  This is something that _a lot_ of Head-fiers could use, myself included (I just ordered one) so I thought I'd share it here.
   
  Thanks again AxelCloris for posting about it


----------



## chicolom

There is also a similar device called the "TCC TC-716 6-Way Stereo Source Selector":
   
  It's $29, and is more versatile than the FiiO HS2.  It has 6 IN/OUT ports (4x Dual RCAs, and 2x 3.5mm jacks), and all the of ports function as either an input or output depending on what is connected.  They each have individual ON/OFF switches, so you can have any combination of the ports switched on.  That means you can have any combination between 1 input to 5 outputs...and 5 inputs to 1 output simultaneously.  You can also just use it as a simple switcher by just activating two ports at a time.
   
  I own one of these as well.
   
  I've got my DSS, Mixamp 5.8, ODAC, etc. all hooked up with the M-Stage hooked up as an output. 
  So I can easily switch the sources ON and OFF and mix in music from my PC/Sansa Clip+ while gaming.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

How does the AD700's bass campare to the SR60i?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> How does the AD700's bass campare to the SR60i?


 
   
  AD700 has less.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Yeah, I compared them on HeadRoom, bass roll off is way too steep for me.


----------



## minion1990

what do you think of the K612 Pro - they are much cheaper than the others.
  -are they any good for gaming compared to the 701?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> what do you think of the K612 Pro - they are much cheaper than the others.
> -are they any good for gaming compared to the 701?


 
   
  First, welcome! Second, you're not going to get much feedback on that particular can for a while since they are just about to be released, but if we assume they are simply a K601 with a new name, then the answer will be that they aren't as good for competitive gaming as the K701 or any of its iterations (K702, Q701, K702 Annie). The good news is the Q701 continues to drop in price and is an absolute steal. You can't really go wrong with it for gaming. Obviously, refer to MLE's guide for more info.


----------



## minion1990

The joke is - the Q701 are more expensive in austria than the K702 Annie imported from the USA  - and all from an austrian company....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is ridiculous.


----------



## Naingolann

Playing Metro LL on PC with my HA-S500. Granted that I'm not using DH, they're still sooo good! I actually prefer wearing them instead of the DT990...it's crazy, I know. 

For those with the ksc75, the JVC HA-S500/400 is definitely a step up.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Woot!
> Have you heard Wilco "Whole Love" or "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" albums? So good


 
  I have not, but I will certainly look into them. Thanks.


----------



## MadMag

Hey
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   First... i never EVER! have experience with good headphones, just enter this new world when i sat to play on my pc and thought..."i need a upgrade"
   
  That what i did... new Rig and whatvercrap headset when i realize sound is better (rly i never give a fck to audio) music, movie, video and games...again thought"i need to buy a boat headset" first time they showed me a40 the dream headset will be if isn't the price in my country...
  I don't give up search a little more and see.. is all overprice so *** that...
   
  In a random day in a random forum a valkiria come to me and say 
  "GAMER Headset is overpriced just find a good headphone they are cheaper and have better quality" take her hand and she guide me to Head-fi.org...Aleluia
  Problem is infomation on internet is like drink from a hydrant..
  I don't much yet but i get this kit:
  X-fi titaniun HD>amp?(fiio eo9k maybe)> DT990 Pro is a good start no hehe?
  sunday i see the hd 598 im my hand and hell... they are so good and sexy i still not have the chance to use the dt990 they are so different?
  looks like 598 is more durable its true?
  Mad says you lose in the immersion and internet don't help...
   
  i see posts of people destroying their dt990's saying:
   
  "worst buy..."
  "is to dark (What dark?)"
  "best start is the hd598" 
  ...and blablablabla 
   
  same for hd 598...
   
  "dt990 is better cheaper is just eq adjust and is the same"
  "with a good amp dt990 is the best hd598 don't"
   
  in my country good amp and headphones is hard to find and have astronomic prices... and exportation no way some people overprice the products to export and the charge is 60% just to pass more the shipment and need to double because of the coin (R$2.05 =1.00U$) and i have some bad experiences with exportations like ******** charge me just to take what i buy and appeal to justice is rly a pain in the ass 
  i can buy one of this two with a good price. dt990 is little cheaper
   
  i find a used lcd2 for sale worth the price? 
   
  some one have some experience with this two on PC?
   
  sry if a miss some words and bad inglish


----------



## Evshrug

murder mike said:


> I have not, but I will certainly look into them. Thanks.



Absolutely some of my favourite music, if you like the pacing and ability of Arcade Fire to have a theme in their album... Well, "Funeral" blew me away, and so did the two Wilco albums I mentioned. I have a hard time picking an all time-favourite album between the feelings (and memories) I get while listening to "Funeral," "Whole Love," and an old fav from Van Morrison "No Guru, No Method, No Teacher," the latter I used to hear all the time at my day's downtown bachelor apartment, and I sorta read as poetry at my father's wedding with my Step-Mother, so... I'm serious, those are some amazing albums.



daleb said:


> Then I've never listened to a song, and frankly, I wouldn't want to. When I listen to music, I hear every note as I would see it on sheet music, I hear all the EQs the producer used, I hear the entire process, all of the sweat and blood that went into the song. Its so exciting to me. I'm getting some more "musical" headphones soon, so I'll see if I wasted my money there.




Look, I love digging out every nuance from music too, but I'm starting to wonder if you're just determined to be special, act anathemic about what we're saying, even if "musical" is not defined by fuzzing over details. 

Look, I don't think of analytical as "having more detail," for example I have never heard any speaker outdo the Q701 purely in detail, BUT musical offers more... Think of analytical as being a word to describe hearing the notes & EQ, but not hearing the dynamic of how hard the guitar strings were hit, not hearing the difference in the atmosphere of big theater vs a small sound-proofed studio, all the notes there but sounding thin without substance or weight. Like... A 92kbps MP3 may be quite detailed and have all the notes, but if you listen to the same song played off a CD at full Redbook AIFF quality, you'll realize there's more fullness and interaction and... music, rather than just a facsimile containing the same "notes." Some use "analytical" purely to refer to an inability to play lower bass notes as you would hear from a live instrument, but it can also refer to a general feeling of compression and damping across the whole spectrum.

So you see, noBody is saying detail is bad... But headphones that are analytical lose a lot of what's going on in the music, just to concentrate on mids and treble (in many cases also lacking in upper treble extension. Compression of what you're paying attention to, a kind of focus that is as limiting as being purely a basshead at the other end of the spectrum). To be diplomatic, I wouldn't say favoring analytical or being a basshead isn't BAD (ppl like what they like), *but they are both limiting the experience.*


----------



## daleb

I like being special 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  No, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for my post to come off that way. I'm just confused is all, about how others listen to music then me. I should really research that, might help me write better songs. Sorry if I came off as rude.


----------



## Evshrug

*MadMag,*
Welcome to Head-Fi, and sorry about your wallet!

What I have to say about your post... Audio will always be a source of debate. The Beyerdynamic DT990 was designed to be a class above the HD598, but I can't guess which your ears would prefer. The first step into high-fidelity audio is always trusting in a leap of faith... from which you learn about yourself and your likes & do not likes.

I heard the Sennheiser HD558 in a Best Buy a few days ago, and it was a pleasant and quality experience. It also fit my ears and head nice, but I still prefer my Q701. What I recommend/suggest/would do if I was you, buy the cheaper HD558. Why? Because it's a very good first high-quality headphone from a good company with good reputation, and get used to how that sounds. Enjoy it for a few months! The other good part about an HD558 or HD598, you won't "need" an amp between the X-Fi Titanium HD and the headphone. Then, if you feel it's lacking in some way, research a headphone that has more _____ than the HD558. For example, get the DT990 if you want more bass and treble, or the AKG Q701 if you want more note separation, or an Audio Technica if you want more soundstage, or an HD650 if you want to focus on mids. But first, you need your first good headphone, so you can learn what you're getting into and if you need anything "more."

Then, you will say "Alleluia!" about what you are hearing, rather than just drowning in too much Internet information.


----------



## Evshrug

daleb said:


> I like being special
> No, I'm sorry, I didn't mean for my post to come off that way. I'm just confused is all, about how others listen to music then me. I should really research that, might help me write better songs. Sorry if I came off as rude.



Well, there's different ways to be special...

But I'm not trying to tear you down. I honestly think you'll see what I mean, though you may already have an inkling from what you learned going from anybuds to the HD280 for the first time. I'm just saying, keep your mind open to the potential of things you don't know yet.

There, that sounds more positive like I wanted in the first place. Maybe even profound? Meh, never stop trying


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> The Beyerdynamic DT440 is ~$120 new ($80 used) on Amazon and has comparable SQ to the HD 598 and it has better bass, and is easier to drive which is a big plus.


 
   
  What about the Creative Aurvana live?


----------



## Evshrug

hifigamer1995 said:


> How does the AD700's bass campare to the SR60i?



I had AD700 and I bought my dad some SR60, the AD700 has thinner bass, but both roll-off before the lowest notes. The SR60i is also IMO a great place to start in headphone Hi-Fi (anyone notice the Grado in the podcast about Daft Punk's new album?), but the AD700 may be a little better suited for competitive FPS and virtual surround. The Grado SR60i is an example of a more musical headphone than the more analytical AD700.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





fidler said:


> What about the Creative Aurvana live?


 
  Bump


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL is closed and presents music quite differently from the Sennheiser 558 and 598. CaL is bassy, quite warm and musical. The Seens are much more balanced and airy, but dont have the bass of the CAL by a longshot. For gaming, the Sennheisers will be a better choice, though not in bass.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The CAL is closed and presents music quite differently from the Sennheiser 558 and 598. CaL is bassy, quite warm and musical. The Seens are much more balanced and airy, but dont have the bass of the CAL by a longshot. For gaming, the Sennheisers will be a better choice, though not in bass.


 
  I need them purely for Watching Movies, currently use DT 880's and they seems to be a little Bass Shy.
  Any other cheaper recommendations


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the DT880 is bass shy, dont bother with the Senns, which have even less.

How much money can you afford to pay?

If the 880 is bass shy to you, perhaps the 990 Pro will fit your needs.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If the DT880 is bass shy, dont bother with the Senns, which have even less.
> 
> How much money can you afford to pay?
> 
> If the 880 is bass shy to you, perhaps the 990 Pro will fit your needs.


 
  I would ideally like to keep it below $100.00 don't mind buying used.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fidler said:


> I need them purely for Watching Movies, currently use DT 880's and they seems to be a little Bass Shy.


 
   
 Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If the 880 is bass shy to you, perhaps the 990 Pro will fit your needs.


 
   
  Sounds like a job for the X1s.
   





   
Yes, I know they're out of his price range.


----------



## daleb

How strong do the DT880 Pros clamp? I'd rather not have another 280s...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing clamps like the 280s, but the Beyer Pro models do clamp quite a bit. Better off getti g the Premiums which don't clamp much.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

fidler said:


> I need them purely for Watching Movies, currently use DT 880's and they seems to be a little Bass Shy.
> Any other cheaper recommendations


 The CAL doesn't have much more bass, but is a significant downgrade in soundstage and overall SQ. You're best bet is the 990.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That I don't completely agree with. The CAL has quite a bit more bass than the 880. That and the fact that they are closed makes the bass bounce off the cuos and resonate, giving them a fuller, more enveloping level of bass, whereas open headphones like the 880 have bass that tends to decay a bit quicker and not be as present.

I do agree that tbe SQ is a bit of a downgrade compared to the 880s though. I would jjst use a bass boost on the 880 over the CAL, unless you absolutely have no way of boosting bass.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995




----------



## HiFiGamer1995

He should buy the Turtle Beach DSS1 off of eBay if he wants a cheap solution IMO, the bass sounds warm and deep with the bass cranked up, very fun sound.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

evshrug said:


> I had AD700 and I bought my dad some SR60, the AD700 has thinner bass, but both roll-off before the lowest notes. The SR60i is also IMO a great place to start in headphone Hi-Fi (anyone notice the Grado in the podcast about Daft Punk's new album?), but the AD700 may be a little better suited for competitive FPS and virtual surround. The Grado SR60i is an example of a more musical headphone than the more analytical AD700.


 I already have the SR60i, I just wanted to compare the AD700 to something I'm very familiar with. I'm probably going to get the HD 555 because they have more bass and look more comfortable, plus I can foam mod it to sound like the 595. For $80 it sounds like a bargain.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hifigamer1995 said:


>




Frequency graphs dont paint the whole story. If you look at the D7000s, they look like they have balanced to linear bass. Not true at all. The sub bass is monstrous.

The 880 has more bass presence than the 598. The 598 has overly forward mids for my taste.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you look at the D7000s, they look like they have balanced to linear bass. Not true at all. The sub bass is monstrous.


 
  Isn't much of that (due to) distortion though? Don't get me wrong --- whatever it is, I do like it...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably resonance, not necessarily distortion. What's weird is that the TH-900 frequency graphs look like how the D7000 actually sounds like. But hey, whatever.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

mad lust envy said:


> Frequency graphs dont paint the whole story. If you look at the D7000s, they look like they have balanced to linear bass. Not true at all. The sub bass is monstrous.
> 
> The 880 has more bass presence than the 598. The 598 has overly forward mids for my taste.


 

FR graphs don't paint the whole picture, they're just a point of reference.


----------



## MadMag

thanks avshrug 
   
"and sorry about your wallet!"
   
  Nah! wallet is not really the problem is the overprices.. jesus :X
   
  Example random hd 598 on e-bay, 250 U$ if i buy go up to 400 U$ (60%) add more exportation 50 or 225U$ more 60% on the price, in the best scenario is 480U$ without safe and if the seller export... in a fast look a seller who export, he sell for 310U$ and shippment 120U$ + 60%= 688U$ i find one shipment for 17.50 but i need to wait 1 or 2 months some shops sell here for 437-938U$
   
  the dt990 Pro the value here is 378,53U$
   
  the cheaper i find hd 558 346,50U$
   
"What I have to say about your post... Audio will always be a source of debate."
   
Everything is a source of debate XD
   
   
  the sennheiser looks more popular,but, probably i will choose dt990 then the sennheiser.
   
  the dt990 find just one place who selling they.He is now on sale in almost """original"""(great quotes) price, i will catch that chance
   
  hd598 and 558 is easy to find but the prices oscillate 2 to 5x more "original"(counting tax, export sales and profit) price range ... ridiculous.
   
  in 1 day dt990 cut down the price close to hd558 and hd598 had a small increase in price
   
  well thanks Avshrug again


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That I don't completely agree with. The CAL has quite a bit more bass than the 880. That and the fact that they are closed makes the bass bounce off the cuos and resonate, giving them a fuller, more enveloping level of bass, whereas open headphones like the 880 have bass that tends to decay a bit quicker and not be as present.
> 
> I do agree that tbe SQ is a bit of a downgrade compared to the 880s though. I would jjst use a bass boost on the 880 over the CAL, unless you absolutely have no way of boosting bass.


 
  I have tried Bass boost, but it distorts when the amplitude increases.
  Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> He should buy the Turtle Beach DSS1 off of eBay if he wants a cheap solution IMO, the bass sounds warm and deep with the bass cranked up, very fun sound.


 
  I will take a look.Its not about Fun sound, its Movie Sound that I'am after.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone interested in the PLYR 1 for $120 total shipped to the US? I'd give them away, but I kind of really wanna get the Mad Dogs (realluy wanna keep the one Dan sent me but don't have the cash) and don't have a direct need for a headset. Let me know via PM. They cost $180 new. These ARE basically new.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Anyone interested in the PLYR 1 for $120 total shipped to the US? I'd give them away, but I kind of really wanna get the Mad Dogs (realluy wanna keep the one Dan sent me but don't have the cash) and don't have a direct need for a headset. Let me know via PM. They cost $180 new. These ARE basically new.


 

 What about the Fidelio X1?


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

fidler said:


> I have tried Bass boost, but it distorts when the amplitude increases.
> I will take a look.Its not about Fun sound, its Movie Sound that I'am after.


 You can adjust the amount of bass from very light to monstrous.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3x0 said:


> What about the Fidelio X1?




Only if the Kingsound doesn't suit my taste. I might be able to acquire the MD for a good price, which is why I'm hoping to sell the Plyr 1 to help shave off a good portion of the MD's price.

The MD would be a better alternative to the Kingsound as it's open vs. closed. The X1 and Kingsound are both open.


----------



## chicolom

hifigamer1995 said:


> You can adjust the amount of bass from very light to monstrous.


 What's interesting about the DSS bass boost is that of you roll it all the way back to the minimum setting it actually has less bass than the Mixamp 5.8 at its default settings. 

So I think the DSS actually has both a bass boost and a bass reducer built in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I more or less finished the Mad Dog re-review, but the damn spoiler tag is messed up for some stupid reason. What


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I more or less finished the Mad Dog re-review, but the damn spoiler tag is messed up for some stupid reason. What


 
  You're making me want these... Why do you do this to me?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not my fault! Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here it is, guys. Got the spoiler tags to work somehow. :rolleyes:



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


*
*


----------



## daleb

I heard that the mad dogs were semi-open, though. How do these isolate and not leak?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The stock T50RP is. MrSpeakers Mad Dogs are fully closed.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Only if the Kingsound doesn't suit my taste. I might be able to acquire the MD for a good price, which is why I'm hoping to sell the Plyr 1 to help shave off a good portion of the MD's price.
> 
> The MD would be a better alternative to the Kingsound as it's open vs. closed. The X1 and Kingsound are both open.


 
  YGPM


----------



## chicolom

Does Skullcandy know you are pawning off their gift?


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> You can adjust the amount of bass from very light to monstrous.


 
  The point is even though I put my amp on high Bass Boost, the Bass is still not what I would have experienced at the movies, and then the distortion when things gets exciting.
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What's interesting about the DSS bass boost is that of you roll it all the way back to the minimum setting it actually has less bass than the Mixamp 5.8 at its default settings.
> 
> So I think the DSS actually has both a bass boost and a bass reducer built in.


 
  Do you feel these mixers are a cheaper option then getting a new pair of headphones ?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fidler said:


> Do you feel these mixers are a cheaper option then getting a new pair of headphones ?


 
   
  Are you asking if bass boost is a cheaper option than buying new headphones? 
   
  I guess it depends on how much more bass you need.


----------



## kenshinhimura

@mle

how strong of an amp do you need for the Mad Dog to use portable? I have an E07K that I'm not using very much, but I see a mini3 amp on for sale forum if that's needed. I have a d2000 that I use at home and am looking at these for walking around. also is the bass similar/better than he-400? thanks


----------



## Evshrug

madmag said:


> thanks evshrug




No problem! 
Hope you enjoy! It's hard to guess what prices will be like in another country, or know what your purchase options are. The DT990 are also very good.


fidler said:


> The point is even though I put my amp on high Bass Boost, the Bass is still not what I would have experienced at the movies, and then the distortion when things gets exciting.
> Do you feel these mixers are a cheaper option then getting a new pair of headphones ?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> I have an E07K that I'm not using very much, but I see a mini3 amp on for sale forum if that's needed.


 
   
  The mini3 is tiny and doesn't look like it'd be a worthwhile improvement over the amp in the E07K.


----------



## kenshinhimura

now that I think about it I think the mini barely has more power. I was looking at the high performance version of the mini. gonna take a look at the e07k specs

edit: well after looking at the specs, i was wrong. the mini3 is actually twice as strong as my e07k.


----------



## chicolom

Headfonia finally reviewed the T90, and they seem to like it:
  http://www.headfonia.com/beyerdynamic-t90-open-tesla-candy-2/


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Are you asking if bass boost is a cheaper option than buying new headphones?
> 
> I guess it depends on how much more bass you need.


 
   
  Need a proper cinema experinece, like at the movies, not too much bass but adequate.
  You know what I mean ?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> edit: well after looking at the specs, i was wrong. the mini3 is actually twice as strong as my e07k.


 
   
  E07K: 220 mW@32 Ω
 Mini3: 300 mW@33 Ω
  E12:   *880 *mW@32 Ω
   
  If you want portable power, I'd get the E12.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

fidler said:


> The point is even though I put my amp on high Bass Boost, the Bass is still not what I would have experienced at the movies, and then the distortion when things gets exciting.
> Do you feel these mixers are a cheaper option then getting a new pair of headphones ?


 You're not going to get the same bass as a theatre with headphones, you need subwoofers for that. The bass boost on the DSS doesn't cause distortion from my experience.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> You're not going to get the same bass as a theatre with headphones, you need subwoofers for that. The bass boost on the DSS doesn't cause distortion from my experience.


 
  Any difference between the DSS1 or 2, the DSS1 is cheap, worth getting?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> The bass boost on the DSS doesn't cause distortion from my experience.


 
   
  I agree, the DSS bass boost is pretty clean.  Your headphone drivers will probably rattle before the DSS distorts (rattling is the headphones fault, not the DSS).
   
  Quote: 





fidler said:


> Any difference between the DSS1 or 2, the DSS1 is cheap, worth getting?


 
   
  Yes, they use different surround sound processing.  The DSS 1 uses Dolby Headphone, while the DSS 2 uses something called "Cirrus Logic headphone surround". 
  Not much is known about the latter.  Turtle Beach may have used it instead of Dolby Headphone to save money on licensing fees.  Turtle Beach's flagship headsets use Dolby Headphone.
   
  The DSS 2 does a couple other things, like shifting around the virtual speakers and has with a few digital EQs built-in.
   
  I believe the DSS 1 has a nicer bass boost.


----------



## daleb

So I just got the S500s in. They sound amazing with techno, but jeez these or so uncomfortable. The clamp isn't as bad as the 280s, but at least the 280 pads were soft. These feel like bricks against my ears...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fidler said:


> Need a proper cinema experinece, like at the movies, not too much bass but adequate.
> You know what I mean ?


 
   
  The closest thing to getting movie theater subwoofer bass is probably a headphone like the D7000, which is way out of your price bracket.
   
  The bass tends to roll off with open headphones as it gets closer to sub bass.  You can bass boost them to try and correct that dB drop off, or you could just hook up a sub and use it along with the headphones... 0_0


----------



## daleb

How often do movie theaters have subwoofers? The only time I notice it is when they decide to make the entire movie play at 100 db... Its so annoying...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D7000 is the most cinematic headphone I've used. It produces bass like no other headohone I have heard, while maintaining clarity. If it's movie theater type bass without destroying the quality everywhere else, hunt for some D7000s.


----------



## 3X0

What about your LCD-2 rendezvous?





mad lust envy said:


> The D7000 is the most cinematic headphone I've used. It produces bass like no other headohone I have heard, while maintaining clarity. If it's movie theater type bass without destroying the quality everywhere else, hunt for some D7000s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The LCD2 has very balanced and deep bass, but it doesn't mimic a movie theater's rumble the way the D7000 does.

As for the Plyr 1. I still wanna keep it. Either way, Skullcandy told me they let reviewers keep them as thanks for the review. I can do whatever I want after that.

I'm more leaning on getting the MDs if the Kingsound doesn't work out for me.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> What about your LCD-2 rendezvous?


 
  out of budgetttt...


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The D7000 is the most cinematic headphone I've used. It produces bass like no other headohone I have heard, while maintaining clarity. If it's movie theater type bass without destroying the quality everywhere else, hunt for some D7000s.


 
  I know, but need something within $100.00


----------



## daleb

The HA-S500s are the bassiest headphones I have heard in my life. These are so uncomfortable without the HM5 mod (easiest mod in the world, all you do is replace the earpads), which should cost you less then then $90 after all is said and done. Don't know if It'll feel like a subwoofer, with movie audio, though. Dubstep sounds like it has a really really loud subwoofer attached, though.
   
  Edit: Note, when I say these are uncomfortable without the mod, I mean I find the HD 280s comfortable, and MLE gave those a 1 for comfort. MLE, you need to get these just so I can find out what score you'd give them.


----------



## moppelh

where did that part where Mad Lust talks about the virtual surround devices go??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Craaaaaaap! Its.... gone. D:

And so are my Ultrasone reviews!


Must...stay...calm...


----------



## daleb

Huh, it's gone for me, too...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Whew, its still there, under the Senn's spoiler tag.


----------



## moppelh

oh, what a relief


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fixed.


----------



## chicolom

If it ever gets screwed up, just roll back via google's cache and grab the post again (select the entire post, click "view selection source", copy and paste back in).


----------



## mbyrnes

Well today I should receive my new Annies and Schiit Magni! Cables came today so ready to get them all setup. So very excited.


----------



## mbyrnes

Echo


----------



## mbyrnes

Echo


----------



## kenshinhimura

guess this got glossed over so posting one more time
   
  @mle

 is the bass similar/better than he-400? thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

You'll get cinematic bass with the Signature DJ as well. I dived into the experience from the very beginning. Never heard such a great subwoofer bass in headphones that doesn't destory the rest of the spectrum and hits very hard. I finished Infamous in 2 days which is beyond my regular habits.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kenshinhimura said:


> guess this got glossed over so posting one more time
> 
> @mle
> 
> ...




Similar. Dont have them to A/B, but they have a similar level of presence and impact, fwir.


----------



## fidler

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> You'll get cinematic bass with the Signature DJ as well. I dived into the experience from the very beginning. Never heard such a great subwoofer bass in headphones that doesn't destory the rest of the spectrum and hits very hard. I finished Infamous in 2 days which is beyond my regular habits.


 
  $1000.00, no thanks!


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

High end Denons are probably the only headphones that give you that sub-woofer like ear rattling sub-bass. They ought to since there one of the leading high end home theatre manufacturers.


----------



## kenshinhimura

@mle
   
  how is the weight of the mad dog compared to the he-400 if you remember?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lighter and more comfortable, for sure.


----------



## Naingolann

daleb said:


> The HA-S500s are the bassiest headphones I have heard in my life. These are so uncomfortable without the HM5 mod (easiest mod in the world, all you do is replace the earpads), which should cost you less then then $90 after all is said and done. Don't know if It'll feel like a subwoofer, with movie audio, though. Dubstep sounds like it has a really really loud subwoofer attached, though.
> 
> Edit: Note, when I say these are uncomfortable without the mod, I mean I find the HD 280s comfortable, and MLE gave those a 1 for comfort. MLE, you need to get these just so I can find out what score you'd give them.




+1
Default pads are a bit uncomfortable at first and they really did hurt my ears, especially the left one for some reason. Believe me though, when I say that the more you use them, the less they'll hurt because they'll slowly take the right shape! At the moment, I can wear them for about 2-3 hours with no problem whatsoever.

The bass is of a very high quality and doesn't get in the way at all! The mids are very clear and treble is a tinsy bit recessed. I'm in love with these cans honestly.


----------



## mtmortar

has anyone tried out the he-300 rev.2 ? very curious as to how these might perform with dolby headphone


----------



## Laths

Hi, I recently bought Oculus Rift virtual reality headset and I want to bring that surround experience into my ears. So I was looking for surround sound headsets.
  I'm also using a MSI GE60 notebook as my gaming machine. So I don't know about its onboard sound quality which has THX TruStudio Pro drivers on it (I don't know if it tells something).
   
  The place where I'm at several different prices for the headsets I'm considering. People often suggest Astro A40/A50's but it's not available in my area. Also Turtle Beach isn't available too. So my options are as follows:
   
  Corsair Vengeance 1500 (165$)
  Plantronics Gamescom 780 (102$)
  SteelSeries Siberia V2  USB (170$)
   
  These are my first options, there are also:
   
  Sennheiser PC 360 (255$)
  Sennheiser PC 363d (325$)
   
  So PC 360 is one of the favorites, but a bit pricey. So between the first three, which one you choose? Or should I really get PC 360.
   
  My main concern is the surround sound quality, I want a realistic sound production from the phones.


----------



## foreign

I have the pc360 and that would be my vote they have a nice soundstage, nice detail and bass is neutral. Good sense of space and airiness. While gaming I can get a few extra kills just based on sound whoring with Dolby enabled. There are better headphones available for the price with standalone mic, but as a headset they are great. The pc363d is pretty much the same headset except cosmetics altered and a dac included. I personally don't think the extra $ is worth it unless you are skimping on $ and don't already have a dac substitute.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

You should get the HD598 with a ModMic if you have a device with Dolby Headphone, it's an upgrade on the HD595/PC360.


----------



## foreign

hifigamer1995 said:


> You should get the HD598 with a ModMic if you have a device with Dolby Headphone, it's an upgrade on the HD595/PC360.



+1 agreed unless you want a headset and don't mind paying a premium price for all in one the hd598 senn would be a better option in $ and sound.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The D7000 is the most cinematic headphone I've used. It produces bass like no other headohone I have heard, while maintaining clarity. If it's movie theater type bass without destroying the quality everywhere else, hunt for some D7000s.




Wow, I'd love to hear the theaters you guys go to! Sometimes a Michael Bay movie or the like will reach down into the bass, but I wouldn't say he theaters have great bass. They can go lower than most speakers, but when I'm there and hearing it these days I'm often thinking about how much distortion there is, stress in the speaker's efforts even after they upgraded to the DLP projectors and refurbished the theaters and stuff.

My memory is a bit fainter on the $15.50 per ticket theater down at the Waterfront, but in general I've cut down on going to the theater a lot because it was relatively inexpensive to own better than average AV equipment and have a more satisfying movie experience at home. Better popcorn too. I had an almost godly experience watching Star Trek and Terminator 2 with my AKG's, and my Polk Audio 2.1 setup is pretty great even though it is smoother and so-far not a surround setup.


----------



## daleb

Yeah, it's really strange. I've never really heard of a movie theater with good audio...


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Most standard movie theaters excessively echo the sound and have crap mids and highs, but IMAX is better.


----------



## daleb

Oh, yeah, Imax had a strong bass... but I don't remember it being excessively good quality. That was a long time ago, though.


----------



## mbyrnes

Well I have been listening to the AKG K702 Annies and the Schiit Magni for the past four to five hours. I have to say I am really impressed! These are a very well rounded sound, good bass and midrange and slightly recessed highs to my ears. With gaming they are very fun and still give you the details you need to sound whore. I am also very impressed with how they perform with music. I have to say they dig pretty deep and do it well. I don't know what you guys are going for with bass, but these sound right to me. I really wouldn't want more bass for anything, because they are putting it out close to how the recordings should sound. 
   
  I really like these much more than the PC360s for gaming. I don't feel I am giving up much in details for the fuller sound I really wanted. I need an adapter to use the 360s with the Magni, and I do expect they will sound better amped. I will have to report back later with that. I will say that the Annies really need an amp. The difference with and without an amp is extremely noticeable. Doing the best I could to equalize the power from the mixamp and mixamp + Magni combined, the Annies really came alive with more power. 
   
  Thank you so much to MLE. I started out with gaming headphones thanks to your thread on AVS. I was able to trust your opinion of the Annies based on your description of the Tritton 720s, then PC360s. It really wasn't hard to decipher that I would love the Annies after seeing how you talked about their sound. I got exactly what I wanted in a headphone. You are the man! Thanks to everyone else who helped me on my journey to this point.


----------



## Laths

Ok, I haven't got an answer to my question 
   
  Which one of this trio?
   
 Corsair Vengeance 1500 (165$)
 Plantronics Gamescom 780 (102$)
 SteelSeries Siberia V2  USB (170$)


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





laths said:


> Ok, I haven't got an answer to my question
> 
> Which one of this trio?
> 
> ...


 

 None of the above?
  Those all all mic'd sets. Mic'd headphones don't often have good sound.
   
  There are many headphones you can buy less then that price that will have better quality sound, and then you can buy a mic mod to go with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hifigamer1995 said:


> You should get the HD598 with a ModMic if you have a device with Dolby Headphone, it's an upgrade on the HD595/PC360.




I find the PC360 more balanced and less shouty than the 598s.

The 598 has more emphasis on mids, so it comes across more detailed, but they're very comparable in terms of gaming performance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mbyrnes said:


> Well I have been listening to the AKG K702 Annies and the Schiit Magni for the past four to five hours. I have to say I am really impressed! These are a very well rounded sound, good bass and midrange and slightly recessed highs to my ears. With gaming they are very fun and still give you the details you need to sound whore. I am also very impressed with how they perform with music. I have to say they dig pretty deep and do it well. I don't know what you guys are going for with bass, but these sound right to me. I really wouldn't want more bass for anything, because they are putting it out close to how the recordings should sound.
> 
> I really like these much more than the PC360s for gaming. I don't feel I am giving up much in details for the fuller sound I really wanted. I need an adapter to use the 360s with the Magni, and I do expect they will sound better amped. I will have to report back later with that. I will say that the Annies really need an amp. The difference with and without an amp is extremely noticeable. Doing the best I could to equalize the power from the mixamp and mixamp + Magni combined, the Annies really came alive with more power.
> 
> Thank you so much to MLE. I started out with gaming headphones thanks to your thread on AVS. I was able to trust your opinion of the Annies based on your description of the Tritton 720s, then PC360s. It really wasn't hard to decipher that I would love the Annies after seeing how you talked about their sound. I got exactly what I wanted in a headphone. You are the man! Thanks to everyone else who helped me on my journey to this point.




I'm glad fo hear they're working out for you.

I agree on your description. The treble is slightly smoothened out for less treble fatigue, which makes them easy to listen to for many hours at a time.

I said it before, but they are like a more open and spacious HD650, which faster speed, and cleaner treble. I also feel it has better sub bass, though the 650 has stronger mid bass and the mids are a little more forward due to the more closed/intimate soundstage.


----------



## Change is Good

Guess what happened to me while I was watching the game with my beloved Q701? I heard a slight rattle during a commercial. I immediately tested it with a bass heavy track. Then low and behold, a rattling noise...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Better call AKG.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Guess what happened to me while I was watching the game with my beloved Q701? I heard a slight rattle during a commercial. I immediately tested it with a bass heavy track. Then low and behold, a rattling noise...


 
   
   
  Is it on just ONE driver or both?  If it's both, it could be a problem with the source distorting.
   
  Here's what I used to diagnose mine:
  http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
   
  Go to the "Quality" test, aka the the "Bass Shaker" and play it at normal listening level and listen for obvious _rattle _in one side or the other.
   


> _Poorly built or extensively worn headphones may start to rattle whenever loud or deep bass content is played. The next file scans bass frequencies and will literally shake your drivers when turning the level up. Adjust the volume in your headphone so that the test is made at a high level: the sweeping tone should remain pure and clear at all frequencies, without any parasitic buzz or rattle appearing in one earpiece or the other._


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Better call AKG.


 
   
  I was going to but my gut told me contact Amazon, first. They are sending me a replacement right away (even 4 months after the return window).
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Is it on just ONE driver or both?  If it's both, it could be a problem with the source distorting.
> 
> Here's what I used to diagnose mine:
> http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for the link. Definitely both earcups... with the left being overwhelming. It happened in the beginning and end every time.  I'm using an HRT MSII and E12 on my laptop. I tested all me other 'phones and they were fine (thank goodness)... so it wasn't my sources (again thank goodness).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Thanks for the link. Definitely both earcups... with the left being overwhelming. It happened in the beginning and end every time.  I'm using an HRT MSII and E12 on my laptop. I tested all me other 'phones and they were fine (thank goodness)... so it wasn't my sources (again thank goodness).


 
   
  One my pair it happened and kept going all the way up to the mid-bass and back down again - only on the right side.
   
  Hmm...I don't suppose there are any other Q701s nearby you can compare too?
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> I was going to but my gut told me contact Amazon, first. They are *sending me a replacement right away* (*even 4 months after the return window*).


 
   
  That's impressive....
  Who'd you buy it from (seller)?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> That's impressive....
> Who'd you buy it from (seller)?


 
   
  I bought it straight through Amazon, brand new (no seller).
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> One my pair it happened and kept going all the way up to the mid-bass and back down again - only on the right side.
> 
> Hmm...I don't suppose there are any other Q701s nearby you can compare too?


 
   
  I will be comparing it to the new one when it gets here on Wednesday.
   
  Edit: As you can see I have been up all night looking for alternatives (should this happen again). Can I get some comparisons between the HE4 and Q701(w/ memory pads)? I know there is a difference in soundstage, but how much? A bass comparison will be appreciated. Any other suggestions (w/ a detachable cable) will be appreciated, also. I'm finally going to bed... thanks...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE4... dont bother unless you have at least a Lyr. Seriously, don't. That is the most amp reliant headphone I have ever heard, and it needs more than 2 watts at it's impedance to sven sound halfway proper.

The HE4 is on the brighter, and more dry than the Memory foam'd Q701. Its thicker sounding than the Q701 with stock pads though. The Annie padded Q701 will have more bass presence

Its seriously like a refined DT880. Very slight mid recession, and emphasized treble (but not harsh).

Soundstage and positional cues don't touch the AKGs.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The HE4... dont bother unless you have at least a Lyr. Seriously, don't.
> 
> The HE4 is on the brighter, and more dry than the Memory foam'd Q701. Its thicker sounding than the Q701 with stock pads though. The Annie padded Q701 will have more bass presence
> 
> ...


 
   
  M-Stage powerful enough?
   
  I'm guessing you're suggesting to just stick with what I have and hope for the best? I mean I do love my babies...


----------



## benbenkr

Hey guys, in comparison between the Beyerdynamics DT 770/880/990 Pros and Sennheiser's HD558/598/600/650, which of them actually have higher clamping pressure?
   
  I know that all Sennheiser headphones comes with their-now signature clamp pressure, but what about Beyers? Their Premium series don't clamp too much, but is it true that their Pro series really do put way too much pressure for many people?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pros do clamp a bit more, but not as much as Sennheiser.


----------



## DemonFox

benbenkr said:


> Hey guys, in comparison between the Beyerdynamics DT 770/880/990 Pros and Sennheiser's HD558/598/600/650, which of them actually have higher clamping pressure?
> 
> I know that all Sennheiser headphones comes with their-now signature clamp pressure, but what about Beyers? Their Premium series don't clamp too much, but is it true that their Pro series really do put way too much pressure for many people?




Hey,

The initial clamp on the HD650's was pretty tight but within an hour or two it loosened up quickly and has easily become tied with the DT990/250 Pro as the most comfortable headphones I've ever owned. Out if your list tho I'd say the DT770's have the tightest clamp. Not to say they are uncomfortable by any means but from that list they are the tightest and the only closed can of your group so honestly this should be expected  


Thanks,


D


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





change is good said:


> M-Stage powerful enough?
> 
> I'm guessing you're suggesting to just stick with what I have and hope for the best? I mean I do love my babies...


 
   
  the m-stage doesnt even do 1 watt of power, so i doubt it has the power. speaker amp would be better for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kenshinhimura said:


> the m-stage doesnt even do 1 watt of power, so i doubt it has the power. speaker amp would be better for it.




This. Like I said, don't bother with the HE-4 unless you have at LEAST the Lyr. Even then, it wants more. You have to look at the HE-4 like the HE-6. They are not for most domestic amps.

Even then EF-5 (which Hifiman sold with as a combo) doesn't do it justice. It's just not a headphone people should look into without proper knowledge.

It gets loud, but it is really starved for power unlike anything I've heard.


----------



## Change is Good

Ok. Is it the same with the HE400?


----------



## Navinabob

Hi guys,  
   
  I hope you don't mind a noob here.  I mostly game and watch movies on the computer, more so now than last year so I decided to get myself a treat and got a MMX 300 [size=small]Beyerdynamic. I hooked it in right to my PC (no special soundcard to speak of, just the one included in a higher-end gaming rig motherboard).  I enjoyed it once I figured out how to keep it from crushing my head. All went well up until Christmas when we discovered our house got burglarized and one of the things missing was the headset.  [/size]
   
  [size=small]Without insurance, I had no choice but to replace it with my bonus check.  My new pair died on me about 3 weeks ago.  Left speaker just has no sound at all.  I can still use it, but any directional sound effects are lost on me. I figured I'm cursed and decided to drop the brand.  After a bit of hunting I found you guys.[/size]
   
  [size=small]I'm thinking about the [/size][size=small]AKG K702 (Annies) but am sorta lost on what to do next.  The mic isn't an issue, that I frigured out on my own.  But the amp & soundcard sorta confuse me.  [/size]
   
  [size=small]What sort of setup should I use?  Any appropriate[/size][size=small] amp/cards needed to maximized sound?  [/size]
   
  [size=small]Thanks![/size]


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I ended up canceling the replacement order of my Q701 before I went to sleep. I did not want one out of the same batch that Amazon had in stock. They are issuing a refund and I will be purchasing the Annies, instead. This was possibly a blessing in disguise because it happened before I decided to send it in for a headband exchange. I would have been screwed... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
   
  Anyways, all is well thanks to Amazon. I'm glad I called them, first. They really saved me from going through the whole prolonged warranty process with AKG. I know there are often better deals elsewhere... but this is why I mostly shop with Amazon. I am a Prime member though so that may be why they "have your back," as I was told by the rep this morning.
   
  Edit: I will be selling the brand new pair of pads that come with the Annies because I already have a pair that I had on my Q701... as some of you already know. Anyone interested in purchasing the new memory pads for their K701/K702/Q701 feel free to PM me.


----------



## Navinabob

I didn't even think of padding options.  But I guess I'll tackle that once I have them on my head to judge.  My Logitech G930s were very uncomfortable...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





navinabob said:


> I didn't even think of padding options.  But I guess I'll tackle that once I have them on my head to judge.  My Logitech G930s were very uncomfortable...


 
   
  If you end up purchasing the Q701 and adding the pads you will save a good amount of cash. The only difference between the Annie and the Q701 would then be the headband. Some people have issues with the bumps and others don't. Just read MLE's review of the Q701. It explains everything.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Well, I ended up canceling the replacement order of my Q701 before I went to sleep. I did not want one out of the same batch that Amazon had in stock. They are issuing a refund and I will be purchasing the Annies, instead. This was possibly a blessing in disguise because it happened before I decided to send it in for a headband exchange. I would have been screwed...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I guess it's good that you heard rattling _before _you had a new headband snapped into it and not _after_.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  I didn't know Amazon would refund/replace things _4 months_ out after you buy them!  Are super-extended return windows a prime membership exclusive perk?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I guess it's good that you heard rattling _before _you had a new headband snapped into it and not _after_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Dude, I have no idea. I just know that this is the second time this has been done for me. They did say, however, "as a one time exception" both times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 !!! I do think they treat all their customers the same, though.
   
  Even so, I'm just grateful it worked out. Are you going to welcome me to the Annie club???


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400 and HE-4 have entirely different amping requirements.

The single digit Hifimans are extremely hard to drive (HE-4, HE-5, HE-5LE, HE-6), while the triple digit ones, are sensitive enough to be used by typical amps (HE-300, HE-400, HE-500).


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Even so, I'm just grateful it worked out. Are you going to welcome me to the Annie club???


 
   
  I see you continue to follow in my gear-footsteps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Don't forget:  _Next step is to buy Q701 pads!_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, in the end, I'm gonna send the MD back, as I don't wanna hold on to them without knowinf the my Kingsound cans are coming in.

I'll keep the Plyr. The base is pretty small and thin, so I can basically take it with me , lol. A dolby headphone wireless can on the go. Woot.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So, in the end, I'm gonna send the MD back, as I don't wanna hold on to them without knowinf the my Kingsound cans are coming in.
> 
> I'll keep the Plyr. The base is pretty small and thin, so I can basically take it with me , lol. A dolby headphone wireless can on the go. Woot.


 
   
  That's wassup. I'm still surprised you haven't purchased the X1. Do you really think the headband sizing is going to be that bad of an issue for you? I hope not because I am anticipating a review of yours in due time.
   
  I was real close, after my unfortunate situation last night, but went with the Annie because it was a sound I was familiar and in love with. After I fall in love it's hard for me to move on....


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I see you continue to follow in my gear-footsteps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I am a copycat now that you mention it... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I thought about the Q701 pads... but I haven't used them since purchasing the memory pads. I'm going to just keep using the memeory pads I ordered and sell the brand new Annie pads to anyone willing to upgrade their Q701. If no one buys them than I'll just have an extra pair.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> I was real close, after my unfortunate situation last night, but went with the Annie because it was a sound I was familiar and in love with. After I fall in love it's hard for me to move on...


 
   
  You aren't following your name very well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the only way I review the X1 is if someone sends it to me as a loaner. I can't commit to it right now, and I think if the KS-H1 ends up not being what I want, I think I should stop beating around the bush and try for the D7000 again, or at least the Fostex TH-600 which is apparently in between the D7000 and LCD2 is tonal balance. Those are my two fave cans, so it sounds appealing. 

At least I know the Fostex will fit me properly.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





daleb said:


> You aren't following your name very well.


 
   
  Well, I did _change_ from the Q701 to the Annie... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  You should buy the memory pads from me whenever you get the Q701... they will be brand new and for a fair price compared to what AKG will charge you. That way you can _change_ pads whenever you want. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: Don't be scared of commitment lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think the only way I review the X1 is if someone sends it to me as a loaner. I can't commit to it right now, and I think if the KS-H1 ends up not being what I want, I think I should stop beating around the bush and try for the D7000 again, or at least the Fostex TH-600 which is apparently in between the D7000 and LCD2 is tonal balance. Those are my two fave cans, so it sounds appealing.
> 
> At least I know the Fostex will fit me properly.


 
   
  I say go for your favorite. How can you not? I did...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Problem is the timing. Kingsound is really irking me right now by not letting anyone know when they're expecting release 

This long wait better be because they're trying to fix the headband assembly or keep the arm extensions from easily sliding down.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> You should buy the memory pads from me whenever you get the Q701... they will be brand new and for a fair price compared to what AKG will charge you. That way you can _change_ pads whenever you want.


 
   
  Pads from AKG are around $40 or so, right? Just about done paying off the wedding, so I'll be able to order mine after that.


----------



## minion1990

Also just ordered the Annies from Pitbullaudio from ebay 
  Paid around 370$ for them.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Pads from AKG are around $40 or so, right? Just about done paying off the wedding, so I'll be able to order mine after that.


 

 the annie pads are closer to $70 last i saw


----------



## DeathDealer623

MLE,
   
  Referring to your guide @ the Denon D7000, did you review them with stock pads or Lawton Angle pads (or J$)? 
   
  I actually just won auction of D7000 w/ Lawton Angle pads but, was curious how much closer the Lawton pads would get them in comparison to the Annie's for competitive play which I currently own.
   
  Also, is there any way to verify manufactured date via serial # as I didn't get a response from seller in time to confirm 2012 model.
   
  Thanx in advance.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> the annie pads are closer to $70 last i saw


 
   
  That is correct.
   
  Mine will be brand new out of the Annie box and will be selling for $50 plus shipping (CONUS only). I won't get my Annies until Friday so PM me if anyone is interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

D7000 stock. I don't ever wanna mess with the D7000s sound. Don't fix what ain't broken.

The only reason I'd ever get lawton pads is because it's real leather, and will be because it's less sweaty than the pleather. If it attempts to fix anything, I'd hate the pads.

If I wanted less bass, I'd get the millions of other headphones that copy one another. The D7000 is one of the only high end headphones that thrives on it's bass.


----------



## 3X0

What about the smelly mids and the lack of isolation?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What about them? The D7000 is a bass and treble oriented headphone. If I wanted more mids, I'd get a headphone that specializes in mids. As for isolation, I personally couldn't care less about that. I'd be just as happy if the D7000 was open with the same sound.


----------



## 3X0

mad lust envy said:


> What about them? The D7000 is a bass and treble oriented headphone. If I wanted more mids, I'd get a headphone that specializes in mids. As for isolation, I personally couldn't care less about that. I'd be just as happy if the D7000 was open with the same sound.




Rev 1 or Rev 2?

If you're talking about Rev 2, you'll *love* Rev 1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I owned both, I loved both. The changes arent as significant as people think. They're both quite sub bass heavy, with sparkly treble, and mids that are slightly recessed, but unhampered by mid bass.

If the lawton pads attempt to reduce bass, it's an absolute failure to me. Why the hell would anyone try to take away what makes Denons...Denons? Get an LCD2 if you want better mids while retaining some (SOME) good bass.

Nothing can touch the D7000 to me. The fact everyone says the two new Fostex have less bass, means they aren't as memorable to me.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I owned both, I loved both. The changes arent as significant as people think. They're both quite sub bass heavy, with sparkly treble, and mids that are slightly recessed, but unhampered by mid bass.
> 
> If the lawton pads attempt to reduce bass, it's an absolute failure to me. Why the hell would anyone try to take away what makes Denons...Denons? Get an LCD2 if you want better mids while retaining some (SOME) good bass.
> 
> Nothing can touch the D7000 to me. The fact everyone says the two new Fostex have less bass, means they aren't as memorable to me.


 
   
  Sounds to me like your ears are subconsciously thriving for the D7000's bass! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I wish I was lucky enough to try them... let alone afford them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've always wanted them again. But I've been pushing this want aside in favor of trying new things.

Im half temoted on cancelling my pre order of the Kingsound stats.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've always wanted them again. But I've been pushing this want aside in favor of trying new things.
> 
> Im half temoted on cancelling my pre order of the Kingsound stats.


 
   
  I agree on trying new things, especially in your position. Still, you should own your _favorite _can. I mean... it is your _favorite_, right? With all the help you guys have given me, I have personally assigned myself as the person that will try to add that final convincing for you to go back to your precious babies.


----------



## 3X0

I must confess the D7000 is rather special for gaming and movies. I'd say for this category it's subjectively more enjoyable than any headphone I've tried so far when weighting immersion in with spatial representation. This includes the 650/701/880 trio and AT's closed back portfolio. The response and presentation is just eerily similar to a nice speaker arrangement.

Nonetheless, using them for music makes me realized how accustomed I am to intoxicating mids. I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not to keep them.

I hope you try the Fidelio X1.


----------



## lltfdaniel

Try and review the akg k550 because the sound stage and directional sound ques from it are amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I demoed the K550 a few times and thought they sounded like crap. If I review them, its gonna come from a loaner, and I don't expect to like it all that much.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I demoed the K550 a few times and thought they sounded like crap. If I review them, its gonna come from a loaner, and I don't expect to like it all that much.


 
   
  They had an odd seal when I demoed them. Once I got them to seal properly I thought it was ok. But it didn't have any major presence in any area and no overall strong points from what I heard. Plus, to get that seal I had to press the pads against my face. It was a really loose fit, which is odd considering that "one size fits all" hats are too small for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just found them a bit lifeless, dry and artificial sounding in the treble.

Might work well for competitive gaming, but I want enjoyment too.


----------



## 3X0

The K550s just don't have enough bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701 is a lot more enjoyable to me. And they aren't particularly bassy.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 is a lot more enjoyable to me. And they aren't particularly bassy.


 
   
  I whole heartedly agree. If someone wants a great closed set, the Mad Dogs deliver. I'm running the 3.1 and I absolutely love them as my closed set. Now I just need to find a complimentary IEM to my HF3, pick up Annie pads, and I should be set for a while.


----------



## MadMag

hmmm
   
  i have a chance to buy:
   
  lcd-2 or a denon 5000 
   
  and i need a amp so any advice '-'
   
  *edit*
   
  is for gaming and music '-'


----------



## chococya96

Recently, I've purchased a Astro gaming mixamp latest edition (2013) for my PS3 and paired with K701, the sound was spectacular.
   
  However, there is one minor problem. Whenever, I turn my volume knob towards MAX and as I reach between the middle and MAX I can hear non-stop hissing and buzzing noise. Both when I'm playing a game or doing nothing (quiet), the noise is very noticeable.
  I've tried to pair with other cans/earphones and tried hooking it up to PC, and the noise was still there.
   
  I've contacted Astro support about this and so far I haven't got any replies so far.
   
  Is this normal?


----------



## DemonFox

madmag said:


> hmmm
> 
> i have a chance to buy:
> 
> ...




I own both and each are amazing in their own way but overall the LCD 2's are superior overall. The D5k's are super fun with addictive bass and great clarity but so are the LCD's but with better sound separation and a significantly better mid range. 

How much do you have to spend on an amp? So many to choose from!


Thanks,


D


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





chococya96 said:


> Recently, I've purchased a Astro gaming mixamp latest edition (2013) for my PS3 and paired with K701, the sound was spectacular.
> 
> However, there is one minor problem. Whenever, I turn my volume knob towards MAX and as I reach between the middle and MAX I can hear non-stop hissing and buzzing noise. Both when I'm playing a game or doing nothing (quiet), the noise is very noticeable.
> I've tried to pair with other cans/earphones and tried hooking it up to PC, and the noise was still there.
> ...


 
   
   
  Yes.  The mixamp starts hissing after about 2/3s travel on the volume pot.


----------



## MadMag

well in my case is hard to say i am from another country 
  maybe 0-400$?
   
  probably i will take the lcd-2 denon was sold


----------



## MadMag

betwen dt990 and lcd-2 with one?


----------



## RandomSound

Hello,
  i will soon buy dt770 pro 250 for my laptop and ps3, so i will buy fiiio e0k for the laptop and astro for ps3, but because of my  limited budget i have to buy only one now and then save for the other so what to buy first, will the astro work fine with the laptop and music because the laptop is the most important now


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not if your laptop doesn't have an optical out. The Mixamp needs an optical out. And the Mixamp is terrible as a music amp.


----------



## RandomSound

no it doesn't have optical on my laptop, so should i will buy the fiio and then save for the astro or i can buy used dss insted of the astro what do you think


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





randomsound said:


> Hello,
> i will soon buy dt770 pro 250 for my laptop and ps3, so i will buy fiiio e0k for the laptop and astro for ps3, but because of my  limited budget i have to buy only one now and then save for the other so what to buy first, will the astro work fine with the laptop and music because the laptop is the most important now


 
  Quote: 





randomsound said:


> no it doesn't have optical on my laptop, so should i will buy the fiio and then save for the astro or i can buy used dss insted of the astro what do you think


 
   
  Assuming you don't have a decent DAC, getting a DAC/amp combo will yield better sound for music then just chaining an E09K on to your laptop's headphone OUT jack (which will just amplify a crappy signal). 
   
  The DSS is fine as a Dolby Headphone amp, IF YOU DON'T NEED CHAT.
  If you want surround on your laptop for gaming, look at the Asus Xonar U3 or U7 or Xonar Essence STU.  These also have decent DACs built-in, and the last one has an amp similar to the E09K.


----------



## RandomSound

I'm sorry for the typing but i meant e07k ,and i looked up the Asus Xonar U3 and i liked it , but can i use with the ps3 , if not can i use it instead of the fiio on the laptop and will it sound good with music .


----------



## RandomSound

After some search i found that the u3 will do every  thing i need, but will it be enough to drive the dt770 250 ohm.


----------



## chicolom

Pretty sure the U3 won't work with PS3.  You need to do everything through optical with the consoles.
   
  I can't say whether the U3 will be enough  amp for the Dt770s.  It is not too powerful.  The U7 and Essence STU will be more powerful, but aren't available to buy yet.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The DSS is fine as a Dolby Headphone amp, IF YOU DON'T NEED CHAT.
> If you want surround on your laptop for gaming, look at the Asus Xonar U3 or U7 or Xonar Essence STU.  These also have decent DACs built-in, and the last one has an amp similar to the E09K.


 
   
  If people prefer the DSS and want to use chat, still... here is an option:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Digital-Optical-Output-SD-AUD20101/product-reviews/B006SF68P2/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
   
  All you have to do is plug it into the PS3 USB and set the sound to go through the DSS and the chat to go through this.


----------



## RandomSound

I will buy the fiio for my laptop will it be good for movies or not, and the u7 will be available,and thanks for all the help.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





randomsound said:


> I will buy the fiio for my laptop will it be good for movies or not, and the u7 will be available,and thanks for all the help.


 
   
  The FiiO (E07K?) won't have any surround sound, but apart from that it is nice DAC/amp.
   
  To summarize:
*Asus U3, U7, Essence STU *would be for surround sound on laptops.  The U7 and Essence STU will have decent amp/dacs.
*FiiO E07K *would be for an stereo DAC/amp for PC.
*DSS/Mixamp* would be for a surround sound on consoles.


----------



## RandomSound

Thank you very much, it was really helpful.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Pretty sure the U3 won't work with PS3.  You need to do everything through optical with the consoles.
> 
> I can't say whether the U3 will be enough  amp for the Dt770s.  It is not too powerful.  The U7 and Essence STU will be more powerful, but aren't available to buy yet.


 
   
  I had to pair my U3 with the E7 when using my Q701s before selling them both off for a different setup. It was a great starter, and if you go with the U3 you'll definitely need an amp for the 770s.


----------



## Nec3

Just lettin you know, if any of you love listening to Hatsune Miku or playing battlefield 3, I would try and maybe avoid the a900x.
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/5a/5a3ca466_25tgjro.jpg

 Battlefield 3's audio is incredible, but when those bullet casings start dropping on the floor, the little tinkles the casings make on the ground can be a bit piercing sometimes.
 Hatsune Miku is a vocaloid, so her S's are digitally emphasized. It could be a bit painful sometimes, especially in her song Nekomimi Switch.
 Otherwise I'd recommend these headphones for everything else.


----------



## lltfdaniel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I demoed the K550 a few times and thought they sounded like crap. If I review them, its gonna come from a loaner, and I don't expect to like it all that much.


 

 Well that's bad then, but for me i prefer these alot over alot of other headphones for gaming and music and movies.
   
  It is more easier to find positioning ques due to how they sound and some people and myself includeing think that it has a 3d soundstage.
   
  I find the airy soundstage of the q701 distracting, i like razor sharp sounds to stick out for positioning ques and the only can i know that does that is the k550.


----------



## widdyjudas

Last week, I listened to Audio technica ad 900x and 1000x, and absolutely loving the 1000x. The 900x sounds very good, but not enough bass qty. 1000x got enough bass for my taste and the sound is very fluid and clean, but the soundstage is a little bit smaller than 900x.
  I dont have any problem with the 3d wings system. Both models sit on my head perfectly, and no driver touching my ears. Although a bit clampy, but overall more comfortable than my HE400 due to weight issue.
  Is it worth it to change my HE400 to AD1000x? The pricing is the same, but I love the comfort and sound for the AT. Not that I complain with HE400, it satisfy me enough, but I can't wear it for long period because of the weight.
  I cant find any review for the 1000x here, anybody got opinion? For gaming and music listening, is the 1000x worth it?


----------



## alrgeez

i'm looking into buying headphones for gaming. i was initially looking at samson sr850 / superlux 668b but recently learned of the somic efi-82 mt. i have a budget of under $100. any other recommendations of headphones with good positioning?


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





widdyjudas said:


> Last week, I listened to Audio technica ad 900x and 1000x, and absolutely loving the 1000x. The 900x sounds very good, but not enough bass qty. 1000x got enough bass for my taste and the sound is very fluid and clean, but the soundstage is a little bit smaller than 900x.
> I dont have any problem with the 3d wings system. Both models sit on my head perfectly, and no driver touching my ears. Although a bit clampy, but overall more comfortable than my HE400 due to weight issue.
> Is it worth it to change my HE400 to AD1000x? The pricing is the same, but I love the comfort and sound for the AT. Not that I complain with HE400, it satisfy me enough, but I can't wear it for long period because of the weight.
> I cant find any review for the 1000x here, anybody got opinion? For gaming and music listening, is the 1000x worth it?


 
  I've not heard the AD1000x, but trust your ears here - if you enjoy the sound and comfort of them more, then I say go for it!  If you currently have both to compare, then give the AD1000x a go for a week straight (to let your ears fully adjust to their signature), then go back to the HE-400 and see what the differences are.


----------



## Navinabob

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The FiiO (E07K?) won't have any surround sound, but apart from that it is nice DAC/amp.
> 
> To summarize:
> *Asus U3, U7, Essence STU *would be for surround sound on laptops.  The U7 and Essence STU will have decent amp/dacs.
> ...


 
   
  This is very helpful, thanks!
   
  I just need some points clarified.  
   
  So, my best set up for gaming & movies is:
   

 My AKG 65th headphones on my head connects via RCA to the FiiO amp.
 FiiO amp connects to the USB sound card via ???
 Creative Soundblaster XFi Surround Pro 5.1 *or* Recon3D *or* ??? (I don't have room for a integrated sound card thanks to crossfired cards... not sure what to get here) connects to the PC via USB cable.  
   
  So, my two road-bumps are my soundcard (I only have an integrated motherboard one) and what connects the amp to the USB soundcard.  
   
  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## ztreb185

I just got the original DSS 7.1, however it seems to me that the right channel seems louder than the left and it feels like its slightly off center.  I know it's not my headphones since they work flawlessly with my fiio amp.  Anyone have this problem or maybe it needs burn in?


----------



## Naingolann

I think you got a dud.


----------



## Change is Good

It's been two hours since I shipped out my Q701 and I'm already having withdrawals. Friday can't get here fast enough... I really want my Annies...


----------



## kellte2

Anyone with Annies notice any creaking or plastic on plastic rubbing coming from the hinges? I have been working then around between uses and the noises seem to be slightly diminishing, but it is still annoying. 

Other than that, they certainly deserve the billing they've received on this thread. The Dolby headphone performance is amazing.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> It's been two hours since I shipped out my Q701 and I'm already having withdrawals. Friday can't get here fast enough... I really want my Annies...


 
   
  Try going a _month _without them!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





navinabob said:


> This is very helpful, thanks!
> 
> I just need some points clarified.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Which FiiO amp are you talking about?  I assume the E09K since you mention RCAs.  The E09K would connect to the soundcards via a 3.5mm cable to dual RCA.
   
  Another option is the Asus Essence STU.  This will have both a powerful amp (similar to the E09K) and a good soundcard/DAC (with Dolby Headphone..._I think_) in one simple external box that connects via USB.  You can also look at the Asus Xonar U7.  Both the STU and U7 have true RCA line outs making it easy to connect external amps.  Some of the smaller devices (Recon3D, Xonar U3) you will need to double-amp from their HP jacks.  It looks like the Creative Soundblaster XFi has RCA out as well, making it easier to amp it.
   
  The only thing I'm not clear on is _what _dolby technology is inside the devices.  The Xonar U7 says "Dolby® Home Theater v4" and I'm not enough of an expert on PC audio to know if that means it has true Dolby Headphone inside.  Does anybody else know what that means?  Not sure 100% sure what's in the STU either...somebody find out!
   
  I don't know much about the Creative Soundblaster XFi Surround Pro 5.1 or Recon3D though, so I can't advise on them :\  The Soundblaster XFi looks beefier though.  I personally prefer Dolby Headphone to Creative's surround though (sounds too dry and stereo-like IMO)


----------



## Happy Bullets

To any head-fi gamers in the lower 48 ...I have a new unopened pair of Philips X1's for $315 shipped. I'm trying to tempt you MLE. Hopefully someone here picks them up to see how awesome they are with DH. ***Sold!****


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> To any head-fi gamers in the lower 48 ...I have a new unopened pair of Philips X1's for $315 shipped. I'm trying to tempt you MLE. Hopefully someone here picks them up to see how awesome they are with DH.


 
   
  Hnnnngggg!!
   
  That's tempting...I really want to hear them.


----------



## widdyjudas

Quote: 





modulor said:


> I've not heard the AD1000x, but trust your ears here - if you enjoy the sound and comfort of them more, then I say go for it!  If you currently have both to compare, then give the AD1000x a go for a week straight (to let your ears fully adjust to their signature), then go back to the HE-400 and see what the differences are.


 

 I want to give it 1 more test again before deciding. 400usd is expensive for me... and my He400 is not even a year old yet. Wishing that there are more reviews for the AD1000X, to hear others opinion for it.
  Was tempted with Anni too, however the USD 600+ price tag are beyond my budge. Not to mention the new amp/dac to pair with it assuming my FIIO E17 can't drive it properly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

From what I remember, Dolby Home Theater V4 isn't Dolby Headphone nor does it compare. Just what I remember from the last time someone wrote about it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

chicolom said:


> Hnnnngggg!!
> 
> That's tempting...I really want to hear them.




They sound REALLY good with Dolby Headphone.

-Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> They sound REALLY good with Dolby Headphone.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Hows the soundstage?  Feel free to reference the PC360 or AD700 if you want, as I'm familiar with them both...


----------



## Evshrug

navinabob said:


> This is very helpful, thanks!
> 
> I just need some points clarified.
> 
> ...




Just connect the soundcard/surround processor to the amp using a standard male to male 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable. You could plug your headphones directly into the "soundcard" without any adapters, except you're just adding an amp in-between for more power. You could also make use of the RCA input on your FiiO amp using a 3.5mm-male to RCA-male cable, but it doesn't really make a difference in sound quality. These are REALLY common cables, you can find them at RadioShack, Best Buy, Walmart, Target... heck, the FiiO amp probably comes with one, cuz they know you'll need it.


----------



## Evshrug

happy bullets said:


> To any head-fi gamers in the lower 48 ...I have a new unopened pair of Philips X1's for $315 shipped. I'm trying to tempt you MLE. Hopefully someone here picks them up to see how awesome they are with DH.




Hnnnnnnggggggh!
C'mon new job, please be worth the years of wait, 5 applications, and 4th round of interview I'll have tomorrow!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> From what I remember, Dolby Home Theater V4 isn't Dolby Headphone nor does it compare. Just what I remember from the last time someone wrote about it.




Nameless seems to know, IIRC he's writ several times that that is a step down for positional quality from DH... May have less distortion tho.


----------



## kellte2

evshrug said:


> Hnnnnnnggggggh!
> C'mon new job, please be worth the years of wait, 5 applications, and 4th round of interview I'll have tomorrow!




Good luck.


----------



## SoupWizard

Hello comrades!
  I'm looking for suggestion, what headphones should I use in my helmet?


----------



## chicolom

I decided to bite on those Fidelio X1s 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've been wanting to hear them for many months, and this was as good an opportunity as any.  I've read too many good things about them which has made me too damn curious.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Expect a full review, with the X1s being compared against the Anniversaries and Q701s in detail. 
   
   
  Should I decide to let them go, they'll be right back up for the same price I got them for. 
  If I do sell them though, I will first be sending them to "OP" so he can audition them himself.
_It was super-nice of you to loan me your HE400s MLE, so I will of course repay the kindness.  _



_  _
  Even if I decide to keep them, you can _still _expect a "care package"


----------



## chicolom

I decided to sell my CALs.
   
  They just don't ever get used next to my AKGs, and I don't like to see them sitting in a box.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Shipped for $45.  > http://www.head-fi.org/t/665824/creative-aurvana-live


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL for $45 is an absolute steal. 

And thats awesome of you. Im very surprised you decided on the X1s, considering they're on the bassy and trebly side, fwir and from Tyll's graphs. I guess that'd make a good contrast to the Annies.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The CAL for $45 is an absolute steal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Ya. 
   
  Bassy and trebly, but it sounds like they do it better than the other bassy and trebly can's - meaning they do it tastefully and don't butcher the mids.  I'm hoping they'll be a fun can for gaming and movies, like the anniversaries on steroids with extra bass and airier treble.  I can't get a straight answer on their treble quantity.  I've read everything from them being darker than the Anniversaries to being brighter than the HE400s.  Classic Head-fi.  
   
  Worst case scenario is I just sell them for the same price, and I'm only out the cost of shipping to audition them.
   
  We'll see...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the HE400 confuses people. On one hand, its a pretty warm/dark headphone. On the other, the treble goes against the dark nature of the cans and is very prominent.

I think the X1 will be brighter than the HE400, though not with the same prominence of treble. Plenty of headphones brighter than the HE400, yet less glaring. HE-4, DT880, SR407 to name a few.


----------



## Mesima

Thank you for this list! I went with Audio-Technica ATH-50 MS, along with a FiiO E9 AMP and FiiO E17 DAC.


----------



## chicolom

That's true.  The HE400 isn't the brightest headphone, and the treble is actually very clean and transparent sounding.  It just sounds off when heard next to the rest of the signature, which can make it come across as overly sparkly.
   
  It's nowhere near the DT990 or anything.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mesima said:


> Thank you for this list! I went with Audio-Technica ATH-50 MS, along with a FiiO E9 AMP and FiiO E17 DAC.


 
   
  Hmmm....Interesting choices....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mesima said:


> Thank you for this list! I went with Audio-Technica ATH-50 MS, along with a FiiO E9 AMP and FiiO E17 DAC.




Umm, you don't need the E9 for the M50, nor do they technically pair up well with them. 

M50 and E17 (dac and amp) are all you need. Of course, a virtual surround amp for gaming should be a priority if you're getting these for gaming.


----------



## burritoboy9984

chicolom said:


> Hows the soundstage?  Feel free to reference the PC360 or AD700 if you want, as I'm familiar with them both...




I would say the difference in soundstage size is the comparable from the ad700 to the pc360 as the pc360 to the x1's. But, you can still pinpoint every little thing, and the bass on these makes it one of the most fun headphones to put on your head. I've recently had loaner pairs of HD700's and HD800's, and since I've sent them back now, I've been using my X1's again, and they are just so much more immersive. I can honestly say I enjoy them for movies and games better than the Senn's. 

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like a soundstage comparable to the DT990. Thats pretty good.


----------



## 3X0

Quote:


burritoboy9984 said:


> I can honestly say I enjoy them for movies and games better than the Senn's.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Bass response is disproportionately important for immersion in games and especially movies. My D7000s exclusively see use for such occasions, yet I almost never pick them up for music.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I decided to bite on those Fidelio X1s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  You've been spot on with your comparisons which has influenced me to follow in your gear footsteps. I will be paying very close attention... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: I will be curious to see if you end up keeping the Annies _and _the X1... or one or the other.


----------



## NamelessPFG

3x0 said:


> Quote:
> Bass response is disproportionately important for immersion in games and especially movies. My D7000s exclusively see use for such occasions, yet I almost never pick them up for music.



Is that simply because games and movies tend to be mixed with boomy, bassy subwoofers, speakers and headphones in mind?

The D7000 probably has a very refined bass presentation if all that hype is anything to go by, but if exaggerated bass is the key, what sets it apart from a more balanced headphone with bass boost of some sort applied?


----------



## Change is Good

So I get home, after work, and my babies are waiting at my door for me...  two days sooner than I expected! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I just played a quick session of BF3 and I must say these are _really_ my favorite headphones for gaming/movies. I mean, my HP100 is a really fun can and has a decent soundstage for a closed headphone... but man that AKG x70x soundstage... _really_ is godlike. Ever since the AD700... a huge soundstage is a must for me when gaming, now.
  And man, that headband... _reeeeeeeeally _comfy!


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Is that simply because games and movies tend to be mixed with boomy, bassy subwoofers, speakers and headphones in mind?
> 
> The D7000 probably has a very refined bass presentation if all that hype is anything to go by, but if exaggerated bass is the key, what sets it apart from a more balanced headphone with bass boost of some sort applied?


 
   
  I think the issue is most console gamers don't have a device in the chain to EQ audio.
   
  -Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> You've been spot on with your comparisons which has influenced me to follow in your gear footsteps. I will be paying very close attention...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm curious about that too.
   
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> So I get home, after work, and my babies are waiting at my door for me...  two days sooner than I expected!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Very nice, I hope you enjoy their sexiness.  Did you check them for rattle yet? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  BTW, there is an open version of the HP100, the HP200.  Maybe you should swap your HP100 for them


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Is that simply because games and movies tend to be mixed with boomy, bassy subwoofers, speakers and headphones in mind?
> 
> The D7000 probably has a very refined bass presentation if all that hype is anything to go by, but if exaggerated bass is the key, what sets it apart from a more balanced headphone with bass boost of some sort applied?


 
  There is a great deal of activity going on below 50Hz in many movies and games that very few headphones can convey effectively. Even the D7000 doesn't do quite as well as my stereo + sub when it comes to subterranean bass, though Dolby Headphone makes up for that.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *chicolom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> BTW, there is an open version of the HP100, the HP200.  Maybe you should swap your HP100 for them
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, I was very intrigued by the HP200 when I read up on it. My HP100, however, is there for the sole purpose of being my closed can (for when isolation is needed)... so switching wouldn't serve me any purpose. I actually thought about the HP200, X1, and HE400 to be my open can after my mishap with the Q701... but I just couldn't sacrifice that lovely soundstage and signature. Therefore, now I have the Annies.
   
*I'm pretty happy with what I have*:
Home: Annie (open), HP100 (closed)
On the go: GR07 MK2 (IEM), Amperior (on-ear)
   
  I only want to stick with one of each and they all compliment each other very well. I don't have enough ears for too many cans... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: Too scared to do the sound test. I will let you know once I muster up the courage...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Very nice, I hope you enjoy their sexiness.


 
   
   
  And yes, these are very sexy... and they know it, too. I do miss that black finish on the Q701, though...


----------



## ztreb185

Gotta return this defective used Dss 7.1 I got.  Has this weird channel imbalance, like it's actually 6.1 with one the speakers missing on the left side.  It's impossible to find a brand new one these days.  Think I may have to buy the DPX21 which actually comes bundled with the original DSS at <$110.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

May as well just get a Mixamp...


----------



## ztreb185

Have you tried the dss2? and how does it compare?


----------



## Mrstick89

I have finally decided it time to upgrade my headphones. I'm currently using Tritton 5.1 gaming headset they are uncomfortable and just are a little lacking. I mainly play FPS so I'm really after good sound positioning. But I also listen to music(all genre, but mainly electronic) and have a pretty large blu-ray collection on my PC, the headphones will be my only source of sound. I can run open back(bachelor pad, no kids etc) so please consider that as well.
   
  Would stepping up to Q701 K702 or HD598 rather then a700x or 900x ~$150 range to~$250 be worth it for me running off just the creative Z amp? I'm not interested in purchasing more gear just some cans.. I'm no audiophile so distinctions in music may be hard for me to notice. I'm mainly after a better soundstage for gaming, I also do enjoy a little bass for immersion but not overwhelming. Money isn't really the problem I just don't like unnecessary spending I'm currently leaning towards the Q701 simply because it is said the sound positioning is amazing! would the a900x be similiar in this aspect? So many decisions, it would probably be easier if I could try them on..


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ztreb185 said:


> Think I may have to buy the DPX21 which actually comes bundled with the original DSS at <$110.


 
   
  Or get another one off eBay for $30.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> There is a great deal of activity going on below 50Hz in many movies and games that very few headphones can convey effectively. Even the D7000 doesn't do quite as well as my stereo + sub when it comes to subterranean bass, though Dolby Headphone makes up for that.


 
   
  It certainly explains why you never cared for Stax much...
   
  The only real solution I see to that is to run headphones in tandem with a subwoofer that can punch down to 20 Hz cleanly, but then I'd seriously annoy everyone else in the house-and probably the neighbors too-just by having that subwoofer running.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> It certainly explains why you never cared for Stax much...
> 
> The only real solution I see to that is to run headphones in tandem with a subwoofer that can punch down to 20 Hz cleanly, but then I'd seriously annoy everyone else in the house-and probably the neighbors too-just by having that subwoofer running.


 
  Yup. It's very hard to deal with coherency issues in such a setup -- I believe some enthusiasts did headphones+sub with the AKG K1000 which was okay since it was being driven by the speaker amp to begin with.
   
  My Nova integrated disables the speaker-outs when headphones are connected, but not the preamp-out which is connected to my subwoofer. This provides some supplemental activity down to ~20Hz with high-sensitivity or isolating headphones, but the solution is completely unmanageable with open or low-sensitivity headphones (since the subwoofer is being driven to a higher volume via the pre-out relative to the headphones). I'd have to have done some serious fiddling to get it to work acceptably with my HD 650s and not destroy integration with my speakers, if even possible. I'd only consider it a worthwhile investment of time, money and effort with something like a SR-009, and then you're still talking about quite a pretty penny just for enhanced movie and game enjoyment..


----------



## mtmortar

Recommendations? 
   
  Looking for a headphone with a big soundstage and good bass for immersion while gaming. 
  Budget $250 and no more. 
   
  Asked around here before but did not really get any clear recommendations. 70% regular gaming 30% competitive multiplayer. Was looking at the DT 990 pro but I got a chance to demo the DT880 from a friend and found those a little to bright for my tastes so I think the DT990 is out of the question.
   
  I want to get a really nice cinematic sound when gaming but still have decent soundstage for multiplayer.
  The DT990's seemed to be it but that treble is scary me away. I was looking at the senns HD 598 but I don't think those have the nice immersive bass. Also looked at the HE-300 but I cant find enough info about those with respect to soundstage and positioning for gaming. 
   
  I will be using these with my ps3, mixamp, magni. 
   
  Decisions, decisions, my head hurts 
  I think my budget might be hurting my options but I just can't go over it right now.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mtmortar said:


> Recommendations?
> 
> Looking for a headphone with a big soundstage and good bass for immersion while gaming.
> Budget $250 and no more.
> ...


 
   
  We spoke of these earlier but there isn't much info on them for gaming. Try researching the SoundMAGIC HP200 and see what you think. I own the HP100 (as my fun can) and have been told the other one sounds better and has a good soundstage (open back headphone).


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

mtmortar said:


> Recommendations?
> 
> Looking for a headphone with a big soundstage and good bass for immersion while gaming.
> Budget $250 and no more.
> ...


 Get the HD 598 with the Turtle Beach DSS and use the bass boost to turn up the bass.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, those pads sold quickly!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm really glad I was able to get a few bucks back. The amount I spent on the Annie sounds more reasonable for me, now.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Yup. It's very hard to deal with coherency issues in such a setup -- I believe some enthusiasts did headphones+sub with the AKG K1000 which was okay since it was being driven by the speaker amp to begin with.
> 
> My Nova integrated disables the speaker-outs when headphones are connected, but not the preamp-out which is connected to my subwoofer. This provides some supplemental activity down to ~20Hz with high-sensitivity or isolating headphones, but the solution is completely unmanageable with open or low-sensitivity headphones (since the subwoofer is being driven to a higher volume via the pre-out relative to the headphones). I'd have to have done some serious fiddling to get it to work acceptably with my HD 650s and not destroy integration with my speakers, if even possible. I'd only consider it a worthwhile investment of time, money and effort with something like a SR-009, and then you're still talking about quite a pretty penny just for enhanced movie and game enjoyment..


 
   
  Fortunately for me, the situation's a lot simpler; I don't use loudspeakers at all. The computer room isn't suited to it at all, and besides, the typical Quad/Acoustat/Beveridge/etc. ESL set is well out of my budget.
   
  I only got an SRD-7/SB with my SR-Lambda, which also means that I have this old integrated receiver sitting on my desk solely to drive headphones (more specifically, the power-hungry transformer box that then drives the headphones) instead of having a dedicated Stax amp. Since there are two sets of output channels on this particular Onkyo receiver, I could, in theory, have a subwoofer running in tandem with little trouble.
   
  Even if I was using a more conventional dynamic/ortho headphone, it's a strange case of a receiver that does NOT mute the speaker output if something's plugged into the front headphone jack...


----------



## chicolom

Fidelio X1s get here tommorow.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Fidelio X1s get here tommorow.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Fidelio X1s get here tommorow.


 
  I am anxiously awaiting how you compare them to the Q701 and Anniversary. Just watched a movie with them and it was awesome.


----------



## mtmortar

Ok so this might be a really stupid question: When using a amp like the magni connected to a tritton mixamp do you set the mix amp volume to its maximum?
  I always have mine set to like half way and use more volume on the magni.


----------



## mtmortar

Quote: 





change is good said:


> We spoke of these earlier but there isn't much info on them for gaming. Try researching the SoundMAGIC HP200 and see what you think. I own the HP100 (as my fun can) and have been told the other one sounds better and has a good soundstage (open back headphone).


 
  Thanks for the help. Cant find those HP200 on ebay or amazon. Couldnt find much info on them. Dont think i'll be going for these.
    
  Quote:


hifigamer1995 said:


> Get the HD 598 with the Turtle Beach DSS and use the bass boost to turn up the bass.


 
   
  I just might get HD 598 because it seems what I am looking for (good soundstage, immersive bass, not harsh treble) just doesn't come in headphones at my prince rang ($250 max). 
   
  Won't bother with the DSS already have a tritton mix amp


----------



## chicolom

mtmortar said:


> I just might get HD 598 because it seems what I am looking for (good soundstage, *immersive bass,* not harsh treble) just doesn't come in headphones at my prince rang ($250 max).
> 
> Won't bother with the DSS already have a tritton mix amp




The HD598 doesn't really have that, especially not without EQ.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Fidelio X1s get here tommorow.


 
   
  Impromptu meet at Chico's house tomorrow.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mtmortar said:


> Ok so this might be a really stupid question: When using a amp like the magni connected to a tritton mixamp do you set the mix amp volume to its maximum?
> I always have mine set to like half way and use more volume on the magni.


 
   
  You set the tritton to be pretty loud.  I set my dolby amp's volume to be close to what a DAC's line out signal would be.  For my DSS that's pretty much max volume.  For my mixamp it's about 70% volume.
   
  You want the magni to be in its normal heavy lifting range on the volume pot.  For my m-stage that's around ~55% on the volume pot.


----------



## mtmortar

Quote: 





mtmortar said:


> I just might get HD 598 because it seems *what I am looking for (good soundstage, immersive bass, not harsh treble) just doesn't come in headphones at my prince rang ($250 max). *


 
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The HD598 doesn't really have that, especially not without EQ


 
    
  I know, that is what I was saying, cant seem to find anything in my price range with all those attributes. The beyers just have too much treble for me.
   
   
  Quote:


chicolom said:


> You set the tritton to be pretty loud.  I set my dolby amp's volume to be close to what a DAC's line out signal would be.  For my DSS that's pretty much max volume.  For my mixamp it's about 70% volume.
> 
> You want the magni to be in its normal heavy lifting range on the volume pot.  For my m-stage that's around ~55% on the volume pot.


 
  Thanks for the info about the mixamp volume when using it with an amp, that was really bothering me for a while.


----------



## chicolom

The X1s are in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Some quick impressions.
   
_(My camera isn't handy, so I'll save the picture taking for my full review later._)
   
*The Packaging:  *The packaging is pretty nice, and looks fairly classy and clean looking (except for the obnoxious white "Philips" badge).  The box is made of a nice sturdy and thick cardboard that pulls apart like a sleeve with the top part being the lid.  It's a lot more heavy duty then the somewhat flimsy boxes AKG use (more like Astro Gaming's boxes, which are nice).  The headphones and cable are fitted into a velvety-covered molded piece.  Once you lift that piece out you reveal the rest of the cable as well as a nice little paperback booklet detailing the headphone (Philips is clearly proud of this can).
   
*The Build:*  It should come as no surprise that the headphones themselves are freaking _gorgeous_.  We all knew they were sexy as hell.  I_ _have to say though, I am a little surprised how small the headband extension is though.  I have pretty small head and I use up about half of the available room.  I can see it being a problem for larger heads.  For me it's pretty much a perfect fit.  The way the outer bars are bent they seem to have some wasted space on either side.  In other words, if you bend the outer bar you probably can free up more room to use.  The headphone itself is incredibly comfy on the head.  The ear pads are soft and quite deep, definitely deeper than the Anniversaries (although slightly smaller diameter _I think_).  Not _quite _as deep as the _back _part of the Q701 pad, but almost - and it's the same depth around the entire pad.  So very good.  The pads aren't angled but the drivers are.  The velour is a different type than AKGs use.  It's sort of shiny looking, but it's seems soft and feels fine.  No itchiness_ *cough - Audio Techinica_*  I think this will be right up there with the most comfortable cans I've used.  I hear bad things about the stock cable, which is a shame because it's quite handsome.  It's of the nylon/braided variety.  The microphonics on the cable are surprisingly loud though.  I don't really care, as I would _never _walk around outside with an X1 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  People say you should replace the stock cable though (due to resistance issues or something), and it's easy to do as they simple connect via a 3.5mm jack on the left earcup.  Although I'm not a cable freak I will still probably mess around with cable a little later.
   
  Anyways, on to *The Sound*.  
   
  There were three potential deal-breakers I was concerned with before getting them.  They were:_ how hot would the treble would be?...how recessed would the mids would be?...and would the bass overpower the rest of the sound?_   So far, I'm pleased that NONE of those seem to be an issue 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  The bass has a healthy dose of fun and impact, but I don't think it intrudes into "basshead" can territory.  It's hard to tell just how much they have without comparing to my reference AKGs.  It sounded thumpy and impressive with a quick check using some electronic music, but I have a feeling they will also be able to pull of Classical too.  The treble level seems perfectly reasonable.  I was afraid they would be brighter than this, but the treble level seems very tasteful and with some nice air.   The mids sound fine to me as well, not as thick as the AKGs but still nice - pushed back just some in comparison to free up some more room in the soundstage for the bass and air.  Overall a very tasteful balance and presentation.  They remind me a little of Beyer T1s but with more warmth.  The soundstage seems pretty good too.  I did a very quick Dolby Headphone youtube test and the space and imaging sounded good.   Keep in mind this was all quick test done courtesy of my laptop's HP jack - which is pretty horrible.  It's quite a grainy, stuffy, and congested little thing.  The sound will change (for the better) once they're hooked up to my _real rig_.
   
   
  So far I'm VERY pleased with the sound on these.  I have a feeling these will have a wonderful signature for gaming.  I can't wait to get home later and plug them into my real rig to see what they can do.


----------



## AfterShock

AD900X, A900X, DT 770, or...?
   
   
  Do the A900X have good sound stage and positional cues?
  What about build quality? I've read that good build quality isn't a forte of open headphones such as the AD700/AD900/X
   
   
  I want both immersive and competitive game play.
   
   
   
  I mainly listen to older/modern rock/metal, so I want some bass. I'm not a basshead, so nothing overpowering.
   
  I don't want a harsh treble.
   
  I also like vocals, so I guess good mids would be nice.


----------



## Change is Good

Originally Posted by *chicolom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif

  


> The X1s are in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Really impressive so far. I'm waiting to see how you end up liking the soundstage (compared to the Annie).


----------



## 3X0

I hope that a certain gentleman is enamored enough with your X1s on loan that he buys them from you outright, rates them a 9+ on all fronts and cancels his order for some no-name electrostats.
   
  My only "problem" with the X1s is that for once, Europeans have something cheaper than us. I was reading people getting them for ~130-150 Euros (yes, X1s) and that really put me off from buying them.


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I hope that a certain gentleman is enamored enough with your X1s on loan that he buys them from you outright, rates them a 9+ on all fronts and cancels his order for some no-name electrostats.


 
   
  LOL


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, I need you to bend the hell out of the headband into a longer shape so it can fit my head. I'm not gonna mod your cans.


----------



## Change is Good

Can anyone give me some receiver suggestions with Dolby Headphone? I don't need anything too fancy or expensive. I just want a receiver with the DH feature because I am getting some bookshelf speakers for my TV soon... then I can move my M-stage to my desktop.


----------



## ztreb185

Just got a brand new Dss 7.1 and glad that its working properly.  Just something interesting that I observed while doing sound tests with my gr07 mk2.  While using http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Toslink-Cable-Optical-Digital/dp/B004LSNF04/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370058293&sr=8-1&keywords=media+bridge+optical which is gold plated on the ends, sound was warmer and a bit muffled in the top end while the flimsy all plastic optical cable that came with the dss actually sounded a bit better to me and clearer up there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Marantz SR5002. I got it for less than $200 on ebay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Marantz SR5002. I got it for less than $200 on ebay.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Marantz SR5002. I got it for less than $200 on ebay.


 
   
  Thanks, MLE. You got any more to throw out there?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Harman Kardon 254?


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> Thanks, MLE. You got any more to throw out there?




I would suggest sticking to the Marantz's, especially if you want to keep hdmi. I think they switched away from using DH in the x005 or x006 series though so look out. Stay clear from the HK x45 and x54 as they have hdmi boards that are known for taking a dump.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe the SR4002 also has DH.

The problem with mine is that none of my line outs work, so i can't use my receiver as a dac only, though the pre-outs do work, so I can use it as a dac with volume control, wh8ch is sort of double amping. Optical outs does thankfully.. Hdmi doesn't, at least not with the PS3. Freezes my ps3, ever time.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Harman Kardon 254?


 
   
  Sweet. Do most Harmon Kardons come with DH?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. They use their own virtual surround now. Only older ones do, same with Denon and Marantz receivers.


----------



## Change is Good

So if I was to get a newer model receiver I would need to keep my mixamp for DH, right?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I need you to bend the hell out of the headband into a longer shape so it can fit my head. I'm not gonna mod your cans.


 
   
  Haha
   
  Dude.
   
  These X1s are flipping GOOD. 
   
  Seriously. 
   
  I'm comparing them to the Anniversaries and they're definitely on par and are even beating them in areas.  These are no joke.
   
  You need to stop screwing around, order a pair, and find a way to make the headband fit  - because I'm confident you will LOVE the signature coming from these.  I'll keep trickling out some details on the sound so you know what I mean.
   
  These are pretty much what I hoped they would be, and I seriously think these are also what _you_ have been looking for.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Haha
> 
> Dude.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think I know where this is going...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The sound signature was never my concern. I know from impressions that the X1 would be probably end game worthy for me. The problem is the fit and headband extension that will always be my problem. Bend the shizz out of the headband and send them my way!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





change is good said:


> So if I was to get a newer model receiver I would need to keep my mixamp for DH, right?


 
   
  Bump.
   
  Also, with a receiver would I be better off with passive or active speakers?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

New model receivers do not have Dolby Headphone. Do your homework on whatever receiver you're looking into. You would basically be using them as a basic dac/amp at that point.

I don't know speakers, so I can't answer that. I assume passive = no volume control, which I'd say is the better choice, as receivers have their own.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> New model receivers do not have Dolby Headphone. Do your homework on whatever receiver you're looking into. You would basically be using them as a basic dac/amp at that point.
> 
> I don't know speakers, so I can't answer that. I assume passive = no volume control, which I'd say is the better choice, as receivers have their own.


 
   
  Yes, I understood that the new ones don't have DH. That's why I asked if I should keep the mixamp to use with the receiver if I took the newer route. So I'm assuming yes? Use the mixamp with the recever as if it was a dac/amp like you said?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I'm comparing them to the Anniversaries and they're definitely on par and are even beating them in areas.  These are no joke.


 
   
  Please tell me if the soundstage is on par. That answer is what will ultimately decide if I return the Annies and purchase the X1. I'm having doubts about the bass, though. I definitely don't want too much bass when gaming (my preference) and also don't want it to overpower my HP100s bass. The HP100 has bass that is just above neutral and is pretty much where I like it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Bend the shizz out of the headband and send them my way!


 
   
  Never!!! 
  I can tell you right now that I'm keeping this pair.  And I don't want to bend these babies as they fit me perfectly at stock. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  So you're going to have to jump in and bend a pair eventually, but not mine!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Please tell me if the soundstage is on par.
> 
> That answer is what will ultimately decide if I return the Annies and purchase the X1. I'm having doubts about the bass, though. I definitely don't want too much bass when gaming (my preference) and also don't want it to overpower my HP100s bass. The HP100 has bass that is just above neutral and is pretty much where I like it.


 
   
  Yes.  Better then on par actually.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Stay tuned!!
   
  I'm still working on the bass.  There is definitely more than the Anniversaries, but it seems to be behaving itself.
   
  Also, keep in mind that if you use a DSS you can actually _reduce _bass by dialing it back.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Never!!!
> I can tell you right now that I'm keeping this pair.  And I don't want to bend these babies as they fit me perfectly at stock.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I'm glad you like them as much as Burritoboy and I do. I have been trying to yell at everyone to buy these things for DH !  It is almost like they take the immersion and fun that some closed cans offer and perfectly mix that into an open can. 
   
  X1 just went down to $349.99 on Amazon.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> I'm glad you like them as much as Burritoboy and I do. I have been trying to yell at everyone to buy these things for DH !
> 
> * It is almost like they take the immersion and fun that some closed cans offer and perfectly mix that into an open can. *


 
   
  Yes, you were right about them.  They are seriously good with Dolby Headphone.  And that bolded text is spot on.
   
  These are probably the best headphones for gaming I've personally heard (although I've heard the T1 and HD800, I haven't heard them for _gaming_).  I say this because they have the highest combination of "competitive" and "fun" I've heard in one headphone.  I haven't heard the D7000s, but I bet they have a lot of both categories as well.  The X1s have have a fun home-theatery sounding signature with a mild "U" shape, with more emphasis on the left side of the "U" then the right side.  I was expecting them to have a signature like this, but I _wasn't_ expecting them to pull of this kind of soundstage while doing it.
   
  Their soundstage and imaging are both excellent. The soundstage comes across as being even larger and more roomy and open sounding then the Anniversaries.  It's on par with the Q701 in that regard, but the Q701 is thinner sounding and sounds primarily mid-rangey in a direct comparison (a la HD598).  The X1s keeps the same size soundstage as the Q701 but are punchier with impressively visceral bass topping everything off. 
   
  The X1's secret to pulling all this off is in by having smaller sounding instruments with plenty of room around each other.  The T1 does this also.  The Anniversaries instruments sound larger, and as a result become more crowded and intimate sounding inside the soundstage.  As the size of the instruments increases, it becomes more of a struggle for the headphone to keep an impression of soundstage size and space.  These large intimate sounding instruments can be cool, and are nice for some music, but for gaming the X1s really benefit from having the type of presentation they do.
   
   
  For music these are also excellent, but not necessarily a replacement for the Anniversary.  This is because they have different signatures so personal preferences will come into play.  The AKGs focus more attention on the mids, while the X1s spread the signature around a bit more with the bass receiving some TLC.  I'll go more into the sound sigs later, but I will say that I really enjoy the X1s signature and it's a nice compliment to the AKGs.
   
   
  My new goal is to get MLE to buy a pair of these ASAP, as I think they are the perfect headphone for him.  MLE, I will take pictures of the headband for you (next to the AKGs as well) so you can see what you will have to work with as far as bending them.  I know you can make them fit your fat head if you try!!





   
  http://www.seaboom.com/scripts/product.asp?PRDCODE=1093-X1/28&REFID=PG


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not gonna happen... as much as I want to, im tapped out after my Alienware and Kingsound purchases. Seriously.


----------



## chicolom

Get rid of that alienware hot mess already. Such a waste.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No YOU'RE A MESS, POOPY HEAD. 

I love it... when it works. #4 should be here on Tuesday. I promise... if it doesn't work properly, I won't be getting anymore.


----------



## chicolom

I think the fifth one will work...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The first two were messed up in the HDMI. The 3rd one had a bad AMD gfx card, but working hdmi. My 4th one is an Nvidia card, and was tested thoroughly for all the problems I had with the last 3. They told me they'd make sure the hdmi inout and gfx card were all working proerly before sending it out. There should be no reason why it wouldnt work this time.


----------



## mbyrnes

I am going to have to see what I can get the X1s for. I have a relative who works for Philips and they get stuff for cost I believe. May be worth a shot.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mbyrnes said:


> I am going to have to see what I can get the X1s for. I have a relative who works for Philips and they get stuff for cost I believe. May be worth a shot.


 
  You can pick them up from a website like Chico linked....but it is a waiting game. Had to wait 5 or 6 weeks to get mine.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> You can pick them up from a website like Chico linked....but it is a waiting game. Had to wait 5 or 6 weeks to get mine.


 
   
  That's a damn shame. 
   
  I don't understand why Philips doesn't stock these with US retailers.  They would sell like hotcakes at the prices they're going for in the EU.
   
  That website says _"This item will be shipped directly to you from the nearest available shipping facility which include those in CA, FL, GA, IL, NJ, TN, and TX."_
  Is that false?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Told you guys back in November how good the Fidelio X1 are for gaming and how they became my best bang for the buck.


----------



## 3X0

fegefeuer said:


> Told you guys back in November how good the Fidelio X1 are for gaming and how they became my best bang for the buck.



I believe they will outclass everything MLE has heard for his tastes.

My only wish, as usual, is that they would be available in the states for closer to their EU price point.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Don't you guys have any fellow EU friends/headfiers gifting them?


----------



## AfterShock

Bring
  Up
  My
  Post
  Quote: 





aftershock said:


> AD900X, A900X, DT 770, or...?
> 
> 
> Do the A900X have good sound stage and positional cues?
> ...


----------



## burritoboy9984

3x0 said:


> I believe they will outclass everything MLE has heard for his tastes.
> 
> My only wish, as usual, is that they would be available in the states for closer to their EU price point.




The cheapest I have seen is amazon.it for ~$240, I got mine from pcsuperstore for $268. Not that big of a difference.

-Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





aftershock said:


> AD900X, A900X, DT 770, or...?
> 
> 
> Do the A900X have good sound stage and positional cues?
> ...


 
   
  I think the AD900X will be too light in signature for adequate immersive gaming.  I've also heard that the imaging is a little diffuse.  They're nice for female vocals though.
   
  The DT770 build is much more solid and heavy-duty feeling than Audio Techinicas, which use a lot of light plastic.  The wing design suspension can be controversial for some, but I don't mind it.
   
  The DT770 aren't mid rich, and the treble may potentially be sparkly for your taste.  The bass depends on which version you get.
   
  Do you NEED closed?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Told you guys back in November how good the Fidelio X1 are for gaming and how they became my best bang for the buck.


 
  Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I believe they will outclass everything MLE has heard for his tastes.
> My only wish, as usual, is that they would be available in the states for closer to their EU price point.


 
   
   
  The problem has always been their lack of availability in the states.  Philips has made the X1s difficult to get a hold of in the US.  As a result there has been a lack of impressions and comparisons against other headphones floating around.  I searched a lot for comparisons on the X1 vs the Anniversary and Q701, but didn't find much substantial info.  I'm going to change that though.
   
  I do think these are a nearly perfect fit for MLE's preferences in a headphone.  MLE, you know I don't BS and I've never steered you wrong before have I? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I usually shy away from the "fun" sound, but the X1s do it right - and it made my decision to keep them effortless.
   
  For _gaming_, I think these will be one of the highest overall scoring headphones he's ever reviewed.  Fun, competitive, and comfort are all _simultaneously _among the best I've heard.


----------



## AfterShock

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I think the AD900X will be too light in signature for adequate immersive gaming.  I've also heard that the imaging is a little diffuse.  They're nice for female vocals though.
> 
> The DT770 build is much more solid and heavy-duty feeling than Audio Techinicas, which use a lot of light plastic.  The wing design suspension can be controversial for some, but I don't mind it.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Closed aren't a necessity, but my spending limit is $250.


----------



## burritoboy9984

aftershock said:


> Closed aren't a necessity, but my spending limit is $250.




For a small amount more you can get the X1's.

-Erik


----------



## 3X0

I don't understand why people looking into this specific topic even consider headphones that are not the Philips Fidelio X1s.*
   
*N.B.: I have not heard the Fidelio X1s.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





aftershock said:


> Closed aren't a necessity, but my spending limit is $250.


 
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634186/review-soundmagic-hp200-an-excellent-open-back-headphone
   
  Price $250
   
  Edit: Here's a more detailed review
http://noblehifi.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/soundmagic-hp200-review.html
   
  Edit 2: These velour pads fit for extra comfort
http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-EDT770VB-Headphone-Pads-Black/dp/B007VCKA64/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1370127532&sr=8-3&keywords=dt770+pads


----------



## Change is Good

^Though I have not heard these, I am a firm believer that these can be just as incredible as the X1... for $100-$150 cheaper. I own the HP100 and it is extremely impressive for a $200 closed can. And everything I keep reading says the HP200 is much better with a wide open soundstage. Again, I have not heard the HP200 nor X1 so these are just assumptions.
   
  Edit: They are currently out of stock at SoundMAGIC headquarters, however.


----------



## chicolom

I looked into the HP200, but the pads were a turnoff for me. Even if they were velour the problem is they don't look deep enough for me (Beyer DTxxx is too shallow as well). 

I've heard good things about the sound though.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

chicolom said:


> I looked into the HP200, but the pads were a turnoff for me. Even if they were velour the problem is they don't look deep enough for me (Beyer DTxxx is too shallow as well).
> 
> I've heard good things about the sound though.


You must have the ears of a giant if the DT770 pads are too shallow for you.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I looked into the HP200, but the pads were a turnoff for me. Even if they were velour the problem is they don't look deep enough for me (Beyer DTxxx is too shallow as well).
> 
> I've heard good things about the sound though.


 
   
  I might take a stab at it once it's available on Amazon.


----------



## chicolom

hifigamer1995 said:


> You must have the ears of a giant if the DT770 pads are too shallow for you.


I haven't worn the Dt770, but I've owned the 990 and 880 and they were a tad too shallow. I do have big ears though.


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634186/review-soundmagic-hp200-an-excellent-open-back-headphone
> 
> Price $250
> 
> ...




The X1's can be had for under $300, by the time you add the pads, they are about the same price.

-Erik


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> The X1's can be had for under $300, by the time you add the pads, they are about the same price.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  I haven't seen any under $350 in the US. And they just went on sale, today, on Amazon as part of "June Audio Month."


----------



## AfterShock

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> For a small amount more you can get the X1's.
> 
> -Erik


 
   
  Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I don't understand why people looking into this specific topic even consider headphones that are not the Philips Fidelio X1s.*
> 
> *N.B.: I have not heard the Fidelio X1s.


 
   
  These?:
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-X1-28-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00B3QD94O?tag=amazoniediscount01-20
   
   
  $350 seems to be over my spending limit.
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/634186/review-soundmagic-hp200-an-excellent-open-back-headphone
> 
> Price $250
> 
> ...


 
  Those look nice, I'll try looking for some other reviews.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I haven't seen any under $350 in the US. And they just went on sale, today, on Amazon as part of "June Audio Month."


 
   
  Someone linked a site that had them a couple of pages back for $297, I got mine from pcsuperstore.com over a month ago for $268 shipped. Search "philips x1/28" on google to find more sites.
   
  -Erik


----------



## AxelCloris

Chico, I'm really hoping that there's a meet sometime soon where I can get some head time with those X1's. You make me wish I had the funds to try them out right now. Can't wait to see the full fledged comparisons.


----------



## pervysage

All this talk about the X1's has me intrigued lol.
   
  I'm still headphone-less after returning the Anniversary's due to rattling. A new headphone that is a great all-rounder for music, games and movies and some bass (which I don't mind considering the type of music I listen to)... sounds freaking awesome, heh.
   
  Might just have to order them from Amazon for the $350 deal going on right now... or does anyone know any cheaper sites? I'm going to search around like someone above suggested.
   
  Also, the setup that I have is the Astro Mixamp and E9K/E17 combo. I heard someone say that the X1's don't really need amping. How will they go along with my existing setup?


----------



## AfterShock

Quote: 





aftershock said:


> AD900X, A900X, DT 770, or...?
> 
> 
> Do the A900X have good sound stage and positional cues?
> ...


 
   
   
  What if I changed it to only closed headphones?
   
  What would be recommended then?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing in the foreseeable future is gonna beat the D7000s for me. I'm pretty certain of that. However, I'm sure I'd be very impressed with the X1. Still, not gonna spend money on something that I'd have to void the warranty on, just to fit my head.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Still, not gonna spend money on something that I'd have to void the warranty on, just to fit my head.


 
   
  Bending the headband voids the warranty?


----------



## Evshrug

ztreb185 said:


> Just got a brand new Dss 7.1 and glad that its working properly.  Just something interesting that I observed while doing sound tests with my gr07 mk2.  While using http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Toslink-Cable-Optical-Digital/dp/B004LSNF04/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370058293&sr=8-1&keywords=media+bridge+optical
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude. What is up with you and perceived differences to digital connections?
First of all, an optical cable will sound exactly the same whether the tip is gold plated, platinum plated, or just bare plastic, so long as that little red light from the fiber optic isn't blocked from shining out the tip. I didn't even know they *made* gold plated optical cables. There is no analogue electrical signal being sent through conductive materials here that could have capacitance or electric contamination resulting in "warmth" or rolled-off top end, the signal is the red light transmitting in a binary on/off blinking way. I could see problems from a poor fit into the plug resulting in a misalignment, or a broken fiber optic, but still: either it works or it doesn't.

Your other issue about only getting 6 out of the 7 surround directions with your previous DSS, with one of the left positions missing, doesn't make sense either. Some games like Call of Duty MW3 don't use the center channel for positional audio (only use it for dialogue), but that doesn't explain why part of one of the side channels wouldn't work properly. All the directional channels are sent as one stream of info over that digital optical connection, then the DSS (or any other surround processor for gaming) decodes that single stream into separate channels using the Dolby Digital Live (DDL) processing algorithm, then Dolby Headphone processes all those channels at once to create a stereo (2 channel) mix that sounds like surround through headphones. Nowhere in there is there a place to lose just one channel of audio... It's another digital "works or doesn't work at all" scenario.

Something is messing with your perception... Either some kind of expectation bias (quite common, especially around the misconception that gold-plated plugs on cables = better) is making you think you hear things, OR the first DSS you got had (stereo) channel imbalance issues in the analogue stage, where one whole side was receiving weak current making that side of your headphone sound congested and grainy. Though I am skeptical about any real differences in optical cables, the issue with the DSS sounds more likely with a channel imbalance, since the components used are relatively cheap compared to a nicer headphone amp. The new processor that comes bundled with Turtle Beach's "Seven" headset may have a better analogue stage, but I wouldn't want the Seven headset... Having the DSS' volume turned almost all the way up and plugged into a nice headphone amp to control volume seems to do a good job of avoiding channel imbalances at normal listening volumes when using harder-to-drive headphones.



change is good said:


> Thanks, MLE. You got any more to throw out there?



I'm not a surround processing expert, but hearing DH and four other forms of headphone surround processing I'd say that Silent Cinema is pretty close-sounding to DH in the way it processes surround. I'd take an educated guess that most of the in-house variants of Headphone Surround from respectable AV receiver manufacturers based their processing off the same research as DH, and shouldn't necessarily be overlooked as a possible option. Creative is one of the few companies that has seemed to have researched headphone surround further (there are a few others for PC use), I personally found their CMSS-3D effort too piercing for comfort but THX TruStudio Pro fixed that for me, and I hope their new SBX processing is as sophisticated while being backed by superior hardware. I really wish Creative would revisit/improve on their Recon3D USB hardware, or/and license their headphone processing to manufacturers of consoles or AV receivers.

Dolby is kind of like the Microsoft of the audio world: they're pretty good and their licensed product is ubiquitous, but a few less-supported options exist that can outperform, and Dolby Headphone specifically seems like something that is losing momentum in the mainstream. DTS apparently has a headphone surround algorithm, but I've never heard it.



mad lust envy said:


> New model receivers do not have Dolby Headphone. Do your homework on whatever receiver you're looking into. You would basically be using them as a basic dac/amp at that point.
> 
> I don't know speakers, so I can't answer that. I assume passive = no volume control, which I'd say is the better choice, as receivers have their own.


 Active speakers have their own power supply/amping, like computer speakers. Passive speakers rely on an external amp like a Receiver or integrated amp. I know it's possible to improve on Dolby Headphone, so I wouldn't discount other processing options off the bat. Yay return policies for assurance?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Bending the headband voids the warranty?




I dunno, but I dou t bending it would give me enough clearance. I was referring to snapping off the plastic bands that hold the headband tightly. Someone did that and know definitely has enough clearance, but I'm sure it voided the warranty.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, but I dou t bending it would give me enough clearance. I was referring to snapping off the plastic bands that hold the headband tightly. Someone did that and know definitely has enough clearance, but I'm sure it voided the warranty.




Sounds pretty extreme and irreversible.
PS thanks for making me feel like watching Cowboy Bebop again. I have the first and last DVDs of the show, and the movie, haven't listened to them on the Q701s yet. Actually, I've been using the KSC 75s for a while lately, but just now slipped back into the AKGs and I'm feelin pretty good.


----------



## chicolom

Here is a pic of the X1 next to the Anniversary for comparison:


----------



## chicolom

You can see in the above pic that the X1's headband is in sort of a wide rectangular-ish shape that wastes some available space. 
   
  Here is Tyll's modified headband to increase the size:


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I don't understand why people looking into this specific topic even consider headphones that are not the Philips Fidelio X1s.*
> 
> *N.B.: I have not heard the Fidelio X1s.


 
   
  Because people have different preferences in sound presentation and comfort? That's a big one right there.
   
  I haven't auditioned the Fidelio X1 myself, but I'll be thoroughly damned if that turns out to be a set that makes me set the SR-Lambda aside. I've tried a few other higher-end headphones, even some of the modern "numerical" Lambdas, and I always go back to that one in the end. That light clamping force...those lovely vocals...that pinpoint positioning...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fidelity is also a factor, and while I know the X1 is probably amazing, I'm sure it isnt a D7000, LCD2, SR407, ESP950, etc. in terms of refinement. I have had a good taste of higher end cans, and I can tell if something is lacking. I'll treat the X1 as it should be treated, a mid-fi can with a sound signature that ticks many boxes.

The Kingsound will apparently have both the electrostatic refinement as well as a sound signature suited to my tastes.


----------



## Evshrug

Seems you've been waiting for that Kingsound for a VERY long time since purchase (I think you bought one, right?). That's coming from me, someone who hasn't been checking Head-Fi as frequently (Woah Chico, surprised to see you with the X1's! I guess the HE-400 got you thinking about new headphones again, huh?).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Been waiting about just over a month, I believe.


----------



## chicolom

Everyone's preferences are different, and ONE headphone can't universally meet all those different preferences. 
   
  For example, The X1's timbre isn't as natural sounding as the Anniversaries and the mids aren't as full.  But if the X1's mids _were _fuller it would then lose it's fun open home-theatery sound that makes it so exceptional for gaming and movies.  So you can't fault it for having a weakness that is simultaneously a strength. 
   
  If you realistically judge it as ~$300-350 headphone, and not some kind of flagship, it performs every bit as good as a headphone in it's price bracket should.


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe it'll be like food, taste better because it's seasoned by hunger 
I do hope you love it. Btw thanks again for the Q's, and loaner HE-400. I'm enjoying that new Daft Punk album on the Q's right now.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

mad lust envy said:


> Fidelity is also a factor, and while I know the X1 is probably amazing, I'm sure it isnt a D7000, LCD2, SR407, ESP950, etc. in terms of refinement. I have had a good taste of higher end cans, and I can tell if something is lacking. I'll treat the X1 as it should be treated, a mid-fi can with a sound signature that ticks many boxes.
> 
> The Kingsound will apparently have both the electrostatic refinement as well as a sound signature suited to my tastes.


And the HD800 is even better than those cans for competitive play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lean heavily on the fun side. I'd never pay so much for headphones that I'd deem mostly good for competitive gaming. Fun has to be better than competitive, I.e. D7000, LCD2, DT990, HE400, etc.

If I could own only one headphone, it absolutely has to be oriented towards fun. I would never, ever own the HD800s. I'm sure it's stellar, but I don't put that much stock in analytical, competitive oriented cans. Especially not for that price.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Woah Chico, surprised to see you with the X1's! I guess the HE-400 got you thinking about new headphones again, huh?


 
   
  The X1 was one of the big ones on my list of headphones I wanted to try, and I'm glad I did. 
   
   
  Quote:


axelcloris said:


> Chico, I'm really hoping that there's a meet sometime soon where I can get some head time with those X1's. You make me wish I had the funds to try them out right now. Can't wait to see the full fledged comparisons.


 
   
  Yeah.  I expect there should be another one sometime.  There's a nice list of head-fiers in our area so I'm sure we will make another one happen soon.  I will of course bring the X1s.
   
  In the meantime though I will work on detailed comparisons to the AKGs.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Yeah, that's why I'm keeping the DSS so I can have a competitive oriented sound, but turn the bass up for a fun sound in single player. Because it seems like warm bass and soundstage counteract with each other most of the time.


----------



## AfterShock

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Everyone's preferences are different, and ONE headphone can't universally meet all those different preferences.
> 
> For example, The X1's timbre isn't as natural sounding as the Anniversaries and the mids aren't as full.  But if the X1's mids _were _fuller it would then lose it's fun open home-theatery sound that makes it so exceptional for gaming and movies.  So you can't fault it for having a weakness that is simultaneously a strength.
> 
> If you realistically judge it as ~$300-350 headphone, and not some kind of flagship, it performs every bit as good as a headphone in it's price bracket should.


 
   
  How true.
   
  I've been searching for my first pair of headphones for over a month and can't make up my mind.
   
  I set my mind on some, then as I keep reading  reviews, I always find something that turns me off.
  It's always either price tag, poor build quality, too much bass, or too much treble.
   
  At this point I'm getting discouraged at even buying any.
   
  What I want to do is maybe order some from amazon and return them if I don't like them, but I've never done anything similar, so I wouldn't know if returns without any reason are possible.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





aftershock said:


> How true.
> 
> I've been searching for my first pair of headphones for over a month and can't make up my mind.
> 
> What I want to do is maybe *order some from amazon and return them if I don't like them*, but I've never done anything similar, so I wouldn't know if returns without any reason are possible.


 
   
  Uhh...Mad Lust Envy has done that more times than I can count. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  I'm almost positive you can return without any reason, but I will defer to the "expert"....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like returning new items, so I buy them like new or in good condition off Amazon or at least fulfilled by Amazon. As long as its not a huge amount of returns, you should be okay. Just buy them used on there.

In all honesty, the Fidelio X1 should be what people look into that want a mix of fun, competitive, comfort, easy to drive. Nothing negative from what I gather other than the pads not being user replaceable, and the headband not fitting big heads. Also, the cable not being the best, so you should find an alternative. I have a few mediabridge 3.5mm cables I'd test out with it, and they're cheap.

If someone considers my PLYR 1 for $110 total, I'd put it in for the X1s.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As long as its not a huge amount of returns, you should be okay.


 
   
  I can confirm that they send you an email concerning the amount of high returns. They just tell you to try to avoid unnecessary returns. I don't know what the next step is but I'm definitely cutting back to avoid any issues with them.


----------



## AfterShock

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't like returning new items, so I buy them like new or in good condition off Amazon or at least fulfilled by Amazon. As long as its not a huge amount of returns, you should be okay. Just buy them used on there.
> 
> In all honesty, the Fidelio X1 should be what people look into that want a mix of fun, competitive, comfort, easy to drive. Nothing negative from what I gather other than the pads not being user replaceable, and the headband not fitting big heads. Also, the cable not being the best, so you should find an alternative. I have a few mediabridge 3.5mm cables I'd test out with it, and they're cheap.
> 
> If someone considers my PLYR 1 for $110 total, I'd put it in for the X1s.


 
  The biggest turn off about the X1's for me was that in some reviews it mentioned the jack breaking easily.
   
  Also, the price tag of $350, It's $100 over what I'd like to spend.
   
  Since I need to get a new music player since the jack on my Fuze won't work properly.
  And depending on the headphones, I might also need some money for an amp.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





aftershock said:


> The biggest turn off about the X1's for me was that in some reviews it mentioned the jack breaking easily.


 
   
  I always baby my gear, and the X1s especially so.  I also have a 3.5mm "replug" breakaway adapter to protect the jack, as an extra layer of protection.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Because people have different preferences in sound presentation and comfort? That's a big one right there.
> 
> I haven't auditioned the Fidelio X1 myself, but I'll be thoroughly damned if that turns out to be a set that makes me set the SR-Lambda aside. I've tried a few other higher-end headphones, even some of the modern "numerical" Lambdas, and I always go back to that one in the end. That light clamping force...those lovely vocals...that pinpoint positioning...


 
  As far as gaming and movies are concerned specifically, I believe some headphones exist that simply leave little room for negotiation (i.e. transcending the "taste is king" adage). I am inclined to believe that the X1 is one of these suspects.


----------



## pervysage

So do you guys really think the X1's are on par or even beat out the Anniversaries when it comes to competitive play/positioning? Paired with an Astro Mixamp using the first preset (which turns down bass effects and boosts footsteps), I'm sure it would work out fine?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> As far as gaming and movies are concerned specifically, I believe some headphones exist that simply leave little room for negotiation (i.e. transcending the "taste is king" adage). I am inclined to believe that the X1 is one of these suspects.


 
   
  Part of it could also be that I'm also factoring in music performance (particularly vocal performance) when looking at headphones. I'm expecting a good all-rounder that does everything well, instead of being cripplingly overspecialized.
   
  It's just like a high-end computer: I expect it to excel at everything it does, especially for the price tag.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> As far as gaming and movies are concerned specifically, I believe some headphones exist that simply leave little room for negotiation (i.e. transcending the "taste is king" adage). I am inclined to believe that the X1 is one of these suspects.


 
   
  Yes, the X1s are almost specialized for gaming and movies. 
   
  Quote: 





pervysage said:


> So do you guys really think the X1's are on par or even beat out the Anniversaries when it comes to competitive play/positioning? Paired with an Astro Mixamp using the first preset (which turns down bass effects and boosts footsteps), I'm sure it would work out fine?


 
   
  If the X1s lose any competitive points, it's not because of their soundstage or imaging.  The imaging is actually a notch better than the Anniversaries.  But they have a fun signature, no doubt, and the bass is substantial.   The Anniversaries are flatter and more balanced sounding, and have more obviously forward mids, which is an area where a lot of the competitive details lie.


----------



## Naingolann

Chico how does the X1 fare against the DT990? Also, I have to stretch the earpads at around the fifth/sixth notch...Would the X1 be too small for my head?


----------



## Change is Good

Hey chico,
   
  So I stopped procrastinating and did the bass test with the Annies. Let's just say I am very bummed...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. It is the left earcup this time. I really can't believe my luck...
   
  It is obvious that I have to send these back (already adding to my high returns). This is really wrecking my nerves.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hey chico,
> 
> So I stopped procrastinating and did the bass test with the Annies. Let's just say I am very bummed...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Wow, another one. I returned mine for the same reason. But my rattling occurred in the everyday music that I listen to as well, not only just bass tests.
   
  I remember saying a while back that this seemed to be a prevalent problem with some of the AKG's and someone made a comment saying I should go learn what prevalent means or something as there weren't many people claiming this problem. But I've seen lots of people bring up this issue now.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Wow, another one. I returned mine for the same reason. But my rattling occurred in the everyday music that I listen to as well, not only just bass tests.
> 
> I remember saying a while back that this seemed to be a prevalent problem with some of the AKG's and someone made a comment saying I should go learn what prevalent means or something as there weren't many people claiming this problem. But I've seen lots of people bring up this issue now.


 
   
  This is my second time. First time was with the Q701.
   
  Edit: Now I need to find an alternative which is not what I wanted.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





change is good said:


> This is my second time. First time was with the Q701.
> 
> Edit: Now I need to find an alternative which is not what I wanted.


 

 I just put in my order for the X1's. Hope they are everything the reviews have been saying they are.
   
  Also ordered a V-Moda cable to go along with it for the so-called stock cable issue.


----------



## Change is Good

The X1s and He-400 are on my radar, for now...
   
  Still bummed...


----------



## kellte2

change is good said:


> The X1s and He-400 are on my radar, for now...
> 
> Still bummed...




Why not contact AKG support? They made it right for me when i experienced a defect out of the box with the Annie.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> Why not contact AKG support? They made it right for me when i experienced a defect out of the box with the Annie.


 
   
  I am on the fence with that, too. I know AKG can make it right but the wait is what is deferring me from that route. Being that I ordered these from Amazon I'd rather just return it and not go through this hassle, anymore. Twice is enough for me...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Chico how does the X1 fare against the DT990? Also, I have to stretch the earpads at around the fifth/sixth notch...Would the X1 be too small for my head?


 
   
  The DT990s have significantly hotter treble, have thinner recessed mids, and are thinner and colder in general.  The X1's are in the same warm camp as the HD650s and the Anniversaries but with a different tuning, and the treble is surprisingly close to the levels on the Anniversaries. I believe the X1 may have more bass than the DT990, but I'm not 100% positive going off memory. 
   
  Unfortunately I don't know about the size comparison to the DT990s.  I didn't keep them around long enough to become familiar with the headband notch sizes :\
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hey chico,
> 
> So I stopped procrastinating and did the bass test with the Annies. Let's just say I am very bummed...
> 
> ...


 
   
  What a bummer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.  Sorry to hear that.
   
  You got them from Amazon right?  Well, technically they are defective so I don't see the problem with pestering them for more returns/exchanges.  I would try for another.  They're expensive headphones after all damnit!  If it makes you feel better, keep in mind MLE is on his _4th_ laptop return.
   
  Going through Amazon is undoubtedly faster than trying to go through AKG, which took a month turnaround for me (mainly because AKG just took the first pair I sent, decided to re-solder a perfectly good wire, then sent them back to me with the rattle issue completely ignored!)  IMO, dealing with AKG is something you do only after you're out of the convenient Amazon return window.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What a bummer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I don't know, man. I'm really unpleased and doubt I want to keep going through this. I am really thinking about the X1 but the non replaceable pads, jack issue, and possibly too much bass and recessed mids compared to the Annie are throwing me off.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Part of it could also be that I'm also factoring in music performance (particularly vocal performance) when looking at headphones. I'm expecting a good all-rounder that does everything well, instead of being cripplingly overspecialized.
> 
> It's just like a high-end computer: I expect it to excel at everything it does, especially for the price tag.


 
  A fair point, but given how disproportionately music and movies are tailored for sub-bass performance and how little I care for sub-bass in music, I prefer two separate sets to cater to music and media.
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> Edit: Now I need to find an alternative which is not what I wanted.


 
  I can't think of a better time to jump on the Fidelio X1 ship (short of hopeful further price reductions). Why settle for less than the best?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I am really thinking about the X1 but the non replaceable pads, jack issue, and possibly too much bass and recessed mids compared to the Annie are throwing me off.


 
   
  ^^^ Because of this. But feel free to try and convince me! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I can't think of a better time to jump on the Fidelio X1 ship (short of hopeful further price reductions). Why settle for less than the best?


----------



## Nekrono

Hey Head-Fi audiophiles.
  
 I'm about to step into the audiophile world, probably at an entry level but still. The main use that I will give the Headphones will be *gaming* and especially *virtual surround gaming* which if I understand correctly the best choice would be going with Dolby Headphone technology.
  
 Now, the Headphone that I've set my eyes on right now is the Sennheiser HD598 followed closely by the Audio Technica ATH AD9000, the reasons behind these models is *audio positioning*, I want to be able to tell where the enemies are in my surrounding with just audio and these two paired up with Dolby Headphone seem to be fantastic at it without giving up much of the Bass, Mids, etc, which is good because I will also use them for music and movie playback. Any recommendation/advice regarding these Headphones or this setup is well appreciated.
  
 Now this is were I start getting lost and could really use some help 
  
 I hear all this talk about DAC's, AMP's, Sound Cards, etc, and I'm not sure what I need exactly for what I primarly want to do which is *audio positioning and great surround sound during games mainly, not just shooters or competitive but single player experiences as well*.
  
 I've read a bit and this is what I've found so far, please correct me if I'm wrong:
  
 *1) -DAC's:* Mainly used to "clean up" the original signal, especially useful when there is noise, etc, during playback.
  
 From the sound of it seems like I don't really need this to accomplish my goal, I have this motherboard and most modern motherboards already have a pretty decent DAC and with the optical output that has I shouldn't have any problems getting a "clean" signal output. Correct, yes, no?
  
 *2) -AMP's:* Used to "amplify" the signal, also provides more voltage to be delivered to the Headphone for those that have high impediance (80 ohms+ ?). That's the main use from what I read but I'm confused as to If I need one or not, I see a lot of comments saying that most people won't even benefit at all, or that it doesn't change the sound but then I read others say that It really changes the sound of the headphone for the better especially the HD 598, again, really confused here and I don't know If I should get one or not.
  
 *3) -Sound Cards:* I guess this is my main question since it seems to be the defining factor to my ultimate goal... virtual surround. From what I understand most DAC's or AMP's are useless for this since they do not have a DPS, which is the "processor" that handles the signal and has the ability to modify or change it's properties like transforming it into Dolby Headphone (assuming the sound card is certified). Now I've read that some AMP's do offer this "feature" like the Astro Mixamp or the JVC SU-DH1 (which doesn't seem to be in stock anywhere now), the great thing from these AMP's is that they are compatible with consoles which even though I'm a PC gamer would be a great benefit to have I must admit.
  
 I'm not sure if I should get one of these (maybe you guys can recommend a better AMP with these features) or if I should get a soundcard. I saw a lot of people recommending the ASUS Xonar Essence STX which at $179.99 is over my budget for a soundcard/amp. I did notice that ASUS has other sound cards like the Xonar D1 or the Xonar DG which come at a lower price.
  
 My question is... would I be sacrificing a lot by going with these lower tier cards or will it not make a difference since my only interest is getting a device that's Dobly Headphone compatible and these cards all have it? Will I have the same virtual surround experience regarding the device as long as it's Dolby Headphone certified?
  
 I know it's a long read but I tried to make it as clear as possible, again I'm new at this and this is what I've come up with before asking for help.
  
 Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## daleb

The HD 598 doesn't really need an amp from what I know. People use it with their phones and ipods all the time.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

The HD598 is a much better all-rounder, the AD900 is a half headphone because of it's weaker bass and brighter treble. If you're gaming only on PC then a cheap Asus Xonar sound card should be good enough for the 598. If you're going to be console gaming at all then the Mixamp is the best option.


----------



## Change is Good

So... they gave me an advanced refund and I have 30 days to return the Annies. Screw it... I pulled the plug on the X1 cause I'm so damn impatient!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Oh well, I guess I will find out for myself what all this hype is about...


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

To be specific , you should get the Xonar DX, it's not exactly cheap though.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> I just put in my order for the X1's. Hope they are everything the reviews have been saying they are.


 
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> Now I need to find an alternative which is not what I wanted.
> 
> The X1s and He-400 are on my radar, for now...


 
   
  For people who own the Anniversaries, keep in mind that they've already been well established as one of best overall gaming headphone options out there.  While they now have some serious competition in the X1, it's not like the X1 is "one another level".  It's better to think of them as alternative or compliment.  Like I said earlier _"these are excellent, but not necessarily a replacement for the Anniversary.  This is because they have different signatures so personal preferences will come into play."_  Regardless of your preferences though, the X1s are undeniably an impressive can.  The X1s deliver fun in a way that is less polarizing then a can like the DT990s.  The fact that a well known Q701/Anniversary fanboy like me enjoys them is a testament to that.  Of course I can't promise that others here will feel the same way though!
   
  It's always easy to overhype a headphone, but honestly the X1s deserve some hype at this point seeing as they've been out since last fall and it still seems like so few people have heard them (of course the whole US availability issue has been been keeping them down).  The Anniversary didn't come out until a bit after 2013 and, thanks to the "MLE bump", they're already common place now.  So the X1s deserve to get some attention at this point IMO.
   
   
  Lastly, I know X1 interest levels are high right now and people here are quite curious about them - especially people who own the Anniversary or Q701s and are wondering how the X1s compare to them.  For people with an itchy "buy it now" finger who are still waiting on more sound details before they make any decisions, please give me some more time as I've only had the X1s for 2.5 days now and I'm still working on their review (I know, I'm slow  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - but to be fair I think my reviews are pretty detailed  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  In the meantime though, I stand by everything I've said about them up to this point, including my very first initial impressions, so go back and my read previous posts again in the meantime!


----------



## pervysage

Can't wait till Tuesday when I get these babies in


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm considering my next youtube vid be a quick KSC75, KSC35, Sportapro, (Yuin G1A clips) comparison and how to swap them out, pros and cons, etc. Wish I had the Yuin G1A clips though.

Yay or nay?


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm considering my next youtube vid be a quick KSC75, KSC35, Sportapro, (Yuin G1A clips) comparison and how to swap them out, pros and cons, etc. Wish I had the Yuin G1A clips though.
> 
> Yay or nay?


 
  I think your next youtube video should be a "How to mutilate Chicos Fidelio X1 headband to fit big headed people review."


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> I think your next youtube video should be a "How to mutilate Chicos Fidelio X1 headband to fit big headed people review."


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





nekrono said:


> Hey Head-Fi audiophiles.
> 
> I'm about to step into the audiophile world, probably at an entry level but still. The main use that I will give the Headphones will be *gaming* and especially *virtual surround gaming* which if I understand correctly the best choice would be going with Dolby Headphone technology.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think you're actually better off with a HD558 instead then. Which has most of the HD598s soundstage but do have at least a deeper bass extension. They're still both pretty much bass shy headphones though.
   
  A Xonar DG/DGX would be your best option regardless of whether you decide with a HD558/598 or a AD9000. Neither of them requires too much amping other than the fact that the HD558/598 fluctuates quite a bit and can reach beyond 150ohms. An amp will benefit, but not crucial.
   
  While a Xonar DX seems like a good choice, its output impedence on the line-out is stupidly high at 33ohms. You'd be better off paying extra $20 for a Soundblaster Z at that point.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm considering my next youtube vid be a quick KSC75, KSC35, Sportapro, (Yuin G1A clips) comparison and how to swap them out, pros and cons, etc. Wish I had the Yuin G1A clips though.
> 
> Yay or nay?


 
   
  Really liking this idea. You really can't give them enough attention.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





nekrono said:


> Hey Head-Fi audiophiles.
> 
> I'm about to step into the audiophile world, probably at an entry level but still. The main use that I will give the Headphones will be *gaming* and especially *virtual surround gaming* which if I understand correctly the best choice would be going with Dolby Headphone technology.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Just get an AD700 and X-Fi Titanium HD. You wont need an amp because the cans are extremely efficient. This is truly "end game" territory when talking about competitive gaming where positional audio is extremely important. Want something that's a better all arounder? Q701s can be found for less than $200 now and can be paired with something as cheap as the E09K.


----------



## AxelCloris

The Fiio HS2 has arrived! Time to play around with this little baby.
   


Spoiler: This%20thing%20is%20surprisingly%20tiny


----------



## Change is Good

*Bad news*: I decided to say goodbye to my Annies, today, for good. I didn't even want to hold on to them for 30 days knowing the rattle was there. I felt it was just best to move on with my life. It was still a very sad moment watching it depart in the UPS truck... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
   
*Good news*: My X1s will get here on Wednesday. I know I'm diving into a different sound signature, so I know what I'm getting into. I just hope I end up absolutely loving them. It will make it easier to cope with the loss of my favorite headphone... so far...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> *Bad news*: I decided to say goodbye to my Annies, today, for good. I didn't even want to hold on to them for 30 days knowing the rattle was there. I felt it was just best to move on with my life. It was still a very sad moment watching it depart in the UPS truck...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I would have held onto them until the X1s got there, did a comparison, _then_ shipped them back.  Might as well use the 30 days  :\


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> The Fiio HS2 has arrived! Time to play around with this little baby.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: This%20thing%20is%20surprisingly%20tiny


 
   
   
  No way - mine just arrived today too!
   
  So tiny and cute, yet so useful.
   
   


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

roguegeek said:


> Just get an AD700 and X-Fi Titanium HD. You wont need an amp because the cans are extremely efficient. This is truly "end game" territory when talking about competitive gaming where positional audio is extremely important. Want something that's a better all arounder? Q701s can be found for less than $200 now and can be paired with something as cheap as the E09K.


The AD700 is one of the best cans for competitive, but it has virtually no sub-bass.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I would have held onto them until the X1s got there, did a comparison, _then_ shipped them back.  Might as well use the 30 days  :\


 
   
  I avoided comparing them so I wouldn't want both headphones... and end up ordering another Annie!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I avoided comparing them so I wouldn't want both headphones... and end up ordering another Annie!


 
   
   
  I see.   Protecting the wallet.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I see.   Protecting the wallet.


 
   
  You know, I never bothered to ask you how the X1 pairs with the M-Stage. I know the X1 has an impedance of 30 ohms and am reading the M-Stage doesn't work well with low impedence cans (due to its 5 ohm output).
   
  Edit: I really hope it does pair well with the X1... because if not... there goes my wallet...


----------



## Goride

I already have a pair of Sennheiser HD595 when I am in the mood for competitive gaming.
   
  I want to get a second pair as a complementry (and an upgrade as well) for when I want a more fun and immersive experiance.  They will be primarily used for computer games, though they will see some music and movie use.  (I do have a nice 5.1 speaker setup in the living room for when I am watching movies, listening to music, and console gaming.  But I am on the computer a lot and primarily use headphones back there.)
   
  I was considering the HiFiMan HE-400 and maybe even the HE-500 for this purpose. 
   
  Do you think the HE-400/500 would be a good complementry set for a more immersive and fun experiance, while I have the HD595 for when I want to be more competitive?  Or would you suggest a different pair for this purpose?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> You know, I never bothered to ask you how the X1 pairs with the M-Stage. I know the X1 has an impedance of 30 ohms and am reading the M-Stage doesn't work well with low impedence cans (due to its 5 ohm output).
> 
> Edit: I really hope it does pair well with the X1... because if not... there goes my wallet...


 
   
   
  Don't worry about it, the whole output impedance things is way overblown _(people over exaggerating something miniscule...on Head-fi?!  Impossible!!!)_. 
   
  People use the E9s 10ohm output with all kinds of cans without problems.  All of the x70x are 62 ohm and it's recommened to have a damping factor of 8 (so E9s 10ohm output x 8 = 80, > 62ohm AKGs).  People even use >_*100 *ohm_ outputs, like receivers and that Beyer Headzone without problems.
   
  I've listened to the X1 off the M-stage and my iCan (which has less than 0.5ohm output impedance) and I can't detect any audible difference from the output impedance.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Don't worry about it, the whole output impedance things is way overblown _(people over exaggerating something miniscule...on Head-fi?!  Impossible!!!)_.
> 
> People use the E9s 10ohm output with all kinds of cans without problems.  All of the x70x are 62 ohm and it's recommened to have a damping factor of 8 (so E9s 10ohm output x 8 = 80, > 62ohm AKGs).  People even use >_*100 *ohm_ outputs, like receivers and that Beyer Headzone without problems.
> 
> I've listened to the X1 off the M-stage and my iCan (which has less than 0.5ohm output impedance) and I can't detect any audible difference from the output impedance.


 
   
  Whew, thanks! These will be arriving tomorrow and I was a little worried as you can see. Now I can sleep well tonight...


----------



## MadMag

http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i
   
  this work with the dt990 pro 250?
  is just a amp?no dac?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





madmag said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/products/little-dot-i
> 
> this work with the dt990 pro 250?
> is just a amp?no dac?


 
   
  It's just an amp.  A _tube_ amp.


----------



## saintrock

I have a question, I want to be able to hear positional accuracy but have bass at the same but not break the bank. I currently can get a pair of Sennheiser HD595's for 100$ or a pair of AD700's for 99.95, what's the better headphone. I'll be playing on PC/Consoles with games such as CoD and battlefield, but I also listen to dubstep/rock/country/rap/metal. I listen to music a lot.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I have a question, I want to be able to hear positional accuracy but have bass at the same but not break the bank. I currently can get a pair of Sennheiser HD595's for 100$ or a pair of AD700's for 99.95, what's the better headphone. I'll be playing on PC/Consoles with games such as CoD and battlefield, but I also listen to dubstep/rock/country/rap/metal. *I listen to music a lot.*


 
   
   
  HD595 has more bass than AD700.  Both are good for competitive gamning.  However, neither of those will have enough bass for dubstep/rap/etc.  You can try raping them with EQ, but otherwise you may want to look at a different headphone, or break the bank.
   
  If you listen to music a lot, it's worth owning a >$100 headphone.


----------



## saintrock

I'm on a tight budget, that's why I'm asking is the HD 595 for 100$ a good deal?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I'm on a tight budget, that's why I'm asking is the HD 595 for 100$ a good deal?


 
   
  I would look for cheaper HD555s instead then mod them into the HD595s.
   
  You might look at the HD518 too:
  http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-518-Headphones-Black/dp/B0042A68R8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1370424843&sr=8-3&keywords=hd558
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/575369/sennheiser-hd-598-558-518-which-one-do-you-recommend-me#post_7814022
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/572652/sennheiser-hd-518-vs-hd-558#post_7907376


----------



## saintrock

I've thought about saving up for the DT990 PRO's 250 OHM version, would these be worth extra the 60 or so dollar's?


----------



## chicolom

If you like their sound. They have strong bass and treble. They're not going to give an improvement for competitive play.


----------



## saintrock

Are the DT990's still good for gaming?


----------



## kellte2

saintrock said:


> Are the DT990's still good for gaming?




Very much so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As if time passing would make a headphone have less performance. Lol.

The 990s are stellar gaming cans. It can do both competitive and fun gaming. It's problem is the treble being very...very prominent by default. When using Dolby Headphone, the treble is mitigated quite a bit, making it be not so problematic. The 990s midbass is quick to decay compared to typical basshead cans, and so it's not very obtrusive.

There's a reason I have had like 6 different 990s at some point. 

If you can find a way to reduce treble dor non gaming applications, I think the 990 is one of the best in the $250 range.

FYI, a large reason why I wanted the X1, was because I was hoping it'd sound a lot like the 990 without that extra treble, and with some extra warmth.


----------



## Forty0z

Hi, new guy here I have a question I'm sure that will get answered here. I game on the Xbox 360 COD mostly but I do play other games. 
  My current setup is Turtle Beach HPA2 and an Extigy. HPA2's are getting harder to come by this is my second pair.
  I was wondering if there are any other headphones that I can use with the extigy or should I just sell my extigy and use the money on a new setup. I was thinking mix amp and PC360.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> As if time passing would make a headphone have less performance. Lol.


 
   
  Only if the headphone was highly neglected or even abused during its existence...but seriously, it does seem like people act that a given headphone is so much worse if a newer model shows up. Happens all the time with the flagship models that keep increasing in price.
   
  I mean, out of everything I've tried thus far, my current favorite headphone just happens to be a *1979* design-one that people will still pay $$$ to get their hands on, if eBay is any indication. (Incidentally, this means that my headphones of choice are much older than I am...)


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> As if time passing would make a headphone have less performance. Lol.


 
  Well, you could also interpret the question as "Are there better choices now in that price range?" Then it makes perfect sense.


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Quote: 





forty0z said:


> Hi, new guy here I have a question I'm sure that will get answered here. I game on the Xbox 360 COD mostly but I do play other games.
> My current setup is Turtle Beach HPA2 and an Extigy. HPA2's are getting harder to come by this is my second pair.
> I was wondering if there are any other headphones that I can use with the extigy or should I just sell my extigy and use the money on a new setup. I was thinking mix amp and PC360.


 
  If you'd like to try something with Dolby Headphones (simulated surround sound) try the Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS (fairly cheap) or another console that is Dolby Headphone capable.
   
  As far as headphones go, it depends what you are looking for. For competitive play I like the HD598 or Q701s because they both have an amazing soundstage and excellent imaging for pinpoint locationing. For fun, I would try the Pro 750 or more expensive Pro 900 because the bass is absolutely excellent with good soundstage and imaging for closed headphones. Read the individual reviews for each headphone at the beginning of this thread if you want more suggestions that are better/worse/cheaper/more expensive. MLE has compiled a great list!


----------



## chicolom

Interesting article on Inner Fidelity about a new surround sound virtualization box. the "DSPeaker HeaDSPeaker."
   
  It's around $500, comes with head-tracking, doubles as a USB soundcard, has 45 different HRTF profiles...
   
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/dspeaker-headspeaker-headphone-virtual-surround-system
  http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/headspeaker.shtml
   
  Here are the manuals:
  http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/datasheets/dspeaker/HeaDSPeaker-QuickStart.pdf
  http://www.dspeaker.com/fileadmin/datasheets/dspeaker/HeaDSPeakerHome_en101.pdf


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my 4th alienware setup. Works beautifully, and the nvidia card is much more stable than the amd one. Downloaded tomb raider, and it runs sooooo smooth.. around 60fps at near max. Also downloaded arkham city for 7 bucks, and fear 3 for 5. Just waiting on Sleeping Dogs, Bioshock Infonite, and Mirrors Edge to go down...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I got my 4th alienware setup. Works beautifully, and the nvidia card is much more stable than the amd one. Downloaded tomb raider, and it runs sooooo smooth.. around 60fps at near max. Also downloaded arkham city for 7 bucks, and fear 3 for 5. Just waiting on Sleeping Dogs, Bioshock Infonite, and Mirrors Edge to go down...


 
   
  Great to hear!!!


----------



## saintrock

So what's the best balanced headphone for gaming/music, at a low price. I tried the creative aurvana live's and they were just ok!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> So what's the best balanced headphone for gaming/music, at a low price. I tried the creative aurvana live's and they were just ok!


 
  What do you consider to be a low price?


----------



## saintrock

I would like to spend no more then 150$


----------



## Change is Good

I am going to leave the details of the X1 to the experts. As for myself? I just played a session of BF3 with them and had soooo much fun! Man, those explosions!!! The positioning and soundstage was awesome, as well. I have found myself a keeper... after that hiccup I had with the Q701 and Annie... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  No love lost...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I would like to spend no more then 150$


 
  What did you not like about the CAL?


----------



## saintrock

The soundstage presence just didn't seem like it was there.


----------



## daleb

Ad700
  
  You aren't really going to get a soundstage out of a closed back headphone...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Ad700
> 
> You aren't really going to get a soundstage out of a closed back headphone...


 
   
  He might want to keep some fun factor in his choice. Then, the AD700 is out of the question. If he bumps up his price range just a little, then he might have more options.


----------



## saintrock

I can get the HD595's for 100$ with 6.85$ shipping, would these be sufficent for my needs?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I have a question, I want to be able to hear positional accuracy but have bass at the same but not break the bank. I currently can get a pair of Sennheiser HD595's for 100$ or a pair of AD700's for 99.95, what's the better headphone. I'll be playing on PC/Consoles with games such as CoD and battlefield, but I also listen to dubstep/rock/country/rap/metal. I listen to music a lot.


 
   
  I just wanted to bump this up for you, saintrock, so people who didn't see it can give you better suggestions.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I can get the HD595's for 100$ with 6.85$ shipping, would these be sufficent for my needs?


 
   
  Yeah, if you are willing to sacrifice that 'fun' factor. As chico said earlier, they will be great for competitive gaming but will not fit your needs for your music preferences.


----------



## daleb

Oh, I didn't see the fun factor part... Man, are there any cheaper headphones that have bass and a soundstage?


----------



## saintrock

So, I should probably just get the DT990 pro's for 169$ shouldn't I?


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I got my 4th alienware setup. Works beautifully, and the nvidia card is much more stable than the amd one. Downloaded tomb raider, and it runs sooooo smooth.. around 60fps at near max. Also downloaded arkham city for 7 bucks, and fear 3 for 5. Just waiting on Sleeping Dogs, Bioshock Infonite, and Mirrors Edge to go down...


 
  DEM games! I guess we won't be seeing you any soon on the forums! xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

saintrock said:


> So, I should probably just get the DT990 pro's for 169$ shouldn't I?




Thats the best fun and soundstagey headphone for the price, IMHO. So yes.

As for me, I post mostly while I'm at work, so I'll always be around.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I am going to leave the details of the X1 to the experts. As for myself? I just played a session of BF3 with them and had soooo much fun! Man, those explosions!!! The positioning and soundstage was awesome, as well. I have found myself a keeper... after that hiccup I had with the Q701 and Annie...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  The X1 definitely picks up footsteps and other details nicely... running around in Search and Destroy in Black Ops 2, you can hear enemies footsteps, creaking floorboards etc fairly easily.
   
  Music-wise, I've tried A-B'ing between having the X1's connected directly to the headphone port on my desktop computer, and having them connected to my Fiio E9K/E17 combo and I kind of feel like it sounds better directly connected to my computer. Vocals, bass and all that just seems tighter and cleaner sounding than through the amp? Any reason this might be?
   
  Also, I'm still waiting on the V-Moda cable to come in so I can try it over the stock cable.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> The X1 definitely picks up footsteps and other details nicely... running around in Search and Destroy in Black Ops 2, you can hear enemies footsteps, creaking floorboards etc fairly easily.
> 
> Music-wise, I've tried A-B'ing between having the X1's connected directly to the headphone port on my desktop computer, and having them connected to my Fiio E9K/E17 combo and I kind of feel like it sounds better directly connected to my computer. Vocals, bass and all that just seems tighter and cleaner sounding than through the amp? Any reason this might be?
> 
> Also, I'm still waiting on the V-Moda cable to come in so I can try it over the stock cable.


 
   
  I actually picked up one of those 10ft Pipeline audio cables they sell at Radio Shack... to avoid the wait. I did an A/B with the stock cable and can definitely notice an improvement.
   
  As for the sound being cleaner through your desktop than your E9K/E17 combo... maybe this is because of the 10ohm output? It was a concern of mine that I mentioned earlier because my M-Stage has a 5ohm output. Thankfully, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary when comparing with my E12. So I think I'm good.


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


change is good said:


> I am going to leave the details of the X1 to the experts. As for myself? I just played a session of BF3 with them and had soooo much fun! Man, those explosions!!! The positioning and soundstage was awesome, as well. I have found myself a keeper...
> after that hiccup I had with the Q701 and Annie...
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm glad you're enjoying them.  I would hate to recommend something and then have someone dislike it.  I feel that the X1s signature and soundstage are so well suited for gaming and movies that it's a pretty safe recommendation though.
   
  So, would you say..._"Change is Good"_?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I'm currently using them with one of monoprice's "mobile" 3.5mm audio cables.  I haven't compared it against the stock cable yet.  What improvement do you notice?
   
   
   

   
  Quote: 





pervysage said:


> The X1 definitely picks up footsteps and other details nicely... running around in Search and Destroy in Black Ops 2, you can hear enemies footsteps, creaking floorboards etc fairly easily.


 

 Pervysage, did you get a chance to compare the X1 to the Anniversaries?  Or did you get rid of them?


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> Pervysage, did you get a chance to compare the X1 to the Anniversaries?  Or did you get rid of them?


 
   
  I managed to return them to Amazon within the 30 day period and got a full refund (because of the rattling). I really did love them and was about to re-buy them when they went on sale at Razordog but thought I would use the opportunity to try something different.
   
  I agree with your point earlier where you said the X1's aren't necessarily a replacement for the Annies... they both have their own strengths and weaknesses.
   
  Just from my memory, I thought the Annies were really intimate when it comes to vocals, on the X1's not as much. They are two very different sounding signatures. I agree with all the reviews about the bass on the X1's... definitely suited towards people who are looking for a fun headphone for a little more thump and impact in their music. I listen to a lot of Techno, Trance and Hip Hop and the X1's are great for those genres.
   
  I still really miss the sound of the Annies and would still probably buy them again. I really liked the instrument separation and clarity of the Annies and think they are a bit better in that regard.
   
  Starting to think I should just have multiple headphones for listening to different types of music instead of searching for just ONE headphone that can do everything (is there a headphone out there like that? I don't know, heh).


----------



## Echo Six

Hey guys been trawling this thread for a couple of hours, great resource and cheers to MLE. After reading through the DT990s seem really popular (which is good because they're basically the only recommended headphone that's readily available for a reasonable price down in my corner of the world). Only thing I'm not sure of is the issues with the treble alot of people have mentioned. I want to use these just for general gaming, movies and a wide range of music (mostly rock, electronic, orchestral). Is the treble really that big of deal to someone who isn't a seasoned audiophile (I know that's a bit hard to answer as its obviously a personal preference)? Or can you mix it out a bit using the sound card? The only real alternative for me is the Soundmagic HP100s which are slightly cheaper. The HP200s might an option if the NZ dealer manages to get some in.
  Secondly, I'll be getting the 250 ohm version so I need something to drive it (using the onboard sound on my P8P67 mobo right now). The kicker is that I want to be able to switch between audio input from my PC and input from my 360 or maybe a PS4 later. So I figure I either need a sound card with an onboard amp and RCA or optical input, or a desktop amp/dac with usb and RCA or optical input selection? Or maybe there's a better solution I don't know about. Anyway I really appreciate your guys input, I've been going round in circles on this for days now and its doing my head in!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Quote:
> 
> I'm glad you're enjoying them.  I would hate to recommend something and then have someone dislike it.  I feel that the X1s signature and soundstage are so well suited for gaming and movies that it's a pretty safe recommendation though.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yes, *Change *definitely *is Good*!!!
   
  I do agree, however, with pervysage.  I might have to rebuy the Annie somewhere down the line, too.
   
  As for the cable: I was in Radio Shack at the mall, today, and saw this... http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13125207. I had a $10 coupon so I went ahead and purchased it along with a 1/4 inch adaptor for it. I also bought the little 3 year replacement plan for $2 in case anything goes wrong with it.
   
  The improvement in sound isn't day and night... but you do notice some clarity and sparkle.


----------



## chicolom

Yes, although they share similarities they are two different beasts.  If I had to sell one, it would be very tough to pick which one to let go. 
   
  I think they are nice compliments to each other.  The Anniversary is flatter and pretty evenly balanced with large intimate sounding instruments and a nice full sounding musical midrange.  The X1 is more fun, with just a bit of extra sparkle and some extra bass emphasis, and a clear and open soundstage due to it's smaller less intimate sounding instruments and less prominent midrange.
   
   
  I took a bunch of pics today for the X1 review, such a sexy headphone...


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

I have a Fostex TH900 on the way. Not bought for games in mind, but I'm interested in seeing how it pairs with my wireless astro mixamp. Since the Denon got a positive review  and the TH900 is not entirely dissimilar I'm hoping for good synergy.


----------



## cixmania

I'm looking for a new set of cans myself, coming from ATH-M50's and I'd like to upgrade.  On my list, the X1's and the DT 900 Pro 600ohm version.  I really dig the looks of the X1 and I've only heard of positive reviews coming from everybody  I think I'll wait a little longer til I can find more reviews on the X1 before pulling the trigger.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Interesting article on Inner Fidelity about a new surround sound virtualization box. the "DSPeaker HeaDSPeaker."
> 
> It's around $500, comes with head-tracking, doubles as a USB soundcard, has 45 different HRTF profiles...
> 
> ...


 
   
  It has promise, but the lack of HDMI input is a serious drawback to me, as that's one of the things that could have helped it justify the $500 price tag. As it stands, an A/V receiver with Dolby Headphone is much more affordable, albeit bulkier and devoid of head-tracking.
   
  The ultrasonic head-tracker probably isn't cheap, though ideally, I'd have it integrate with Freetrack or something so I don't have to run my TrackIR in tandem.


----------



## Change is Good

After another long session of BF3 with the X1... I think I might have to re-purchase the Annies... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The Annie really holds an advantage from a competitive standpoint.
   
  I see why chico says...
   
  Quote: 





> Yes, although they share similarities they are two different beasts. If I had to sell one, it would be very tough to pick which one to let go


 
   
  I really have to agree there, my friend. If I owned both... I would use the X1 for movies and the Annie for games. I might just have to do so when I get some extra mullah...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> After another long session of BF3 with the X1... I think I might have to re-purchase the Annies...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  The anniversary has some competitive advantage simply because its signature is flatter and the mids are more forward and detailed.  The mids really aren't a focus on the X1, plus the bass can get distracting.  Overall I think the advantage isn't huge though.  The X1's soundstage is more open and spacious and the imaging is a little sharper, so it regains some lost points there.  I don't blame the X1 for not being 10/10 competitive though, because I think they do a damn good job of pulling off the best competitive they can while still managing the fun signature that they do.  
   
   
  For me, it's the X1s for single player gaming and movies/TV.  I'm using the Q701 right now for multiplayer gaming, partly because of it's lighter clearer signature, and partly because that type of gaming is more intense and I'm afraid of wearing out the X1 pads by using it for that.  The Q701 pads are the  easiest to clean/replace of the three types.  I also usually pair the Q701 with my iCan and set the bass boost switch to _rape_ which adds back a lot of fun to the Q701.
   
  For music it's sort of a three way split, but usually it's either the Anniversaries or X1s getting the head time, with the Q701 getting less.  It depends on what genre I'm listening too though.
   
  I really like them both though, and it would break my heart to sell one of them


----------



## 333425 (Jan 9, 2021)

.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The anniversary has some competitive advantage simply because its signature is flatter and the mids are more forward and detailed.  The mids really aren't a focus on the X1, plus the bass can get distracting.  Overall I think the advantage isn't huge though.  The X1's soundstage is more open and spacious and the imaging is a little sharper, so it regains some lost points there.  I don't blame the X1 for not being 10/10 competitive though, because I think they do a damn good job of pulling off the best competitive they can while still managing the fun signature that they do.
> 
> 
> For me, it's the X1s for single player gaming and movies/TV.  I'm using the Q701 right now for multiplayer gaming, partly because of it's lighter clearer signature, and partly because that type of gaming is more intense and I'm afraid of wearing out the X1 pads by using it for that.  The Q701 pads are the  easiest to clean/replace of the three types.  I also usually pair the Q701 with my iCan and set the bass boost switch to _rape_ which adds back a lot of fun to the Q701.
> ...


 
   
  I've been enjoying the X1's more and more. V-moda cable came in today along with a 6.35 -> 3.5 adapter so I could hook it up to my E9K.
   
  I don't know if it's just me getting used to the headphones but the first day the bass was a little too overpowering when gaming. I was shooting a silenced weapon and my head was thumping lol. But now the bass feels nice and tight and I can play competitively while still having a fun sound signature. I may go as far as saying that I can pinpoint directions of enemies better on the X1's than the Annies. Music has been sounding great as well... I feel like the X1's have the perfect amount of bass... not too little, and not too much.
   
  Replacing the stock cable didn't make a huge difference, but it does feel like it improved the sound.


----------



## minion1990

so, today i got my annies and i've got a question.
  everybody wrote they are extremely hard to drive, and so out of curiosity i plugged them into my  Galaxy sII and they are pretty loud. (I'm going to buy a essence stx or an xonar phoebus for my pc).
   
  Is this normal or did i get a fake?


----------



## kenshinhimura

minion1990 said:


> so, today i got my annies and i've got a question.
> everybody wrote they are extremely hard to drive, and so out of curiosity i plugged them into my  Galaxy sII and they are pretty loud. (I'm going to buy a essence stx or an xonar phoebus for my pc).
> 
> Is this normal or did i get a fake?




I don't think you're going to find too many fake Annies.  It's harder to get full sound without an amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

loudness =/= driven

The Q701 and Annies share the same drivers, yet the Annies get louder considerably easier than the Q701. That's due to the pads sealing better.


----------



## minion1990

so the amping improves just the quality of the sound, not the loudness?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That should be a well known conclusion by this point.

As I edited in on the last post:

The Q701 and Annies share the same drivers, yet the Annies get louder considerably easier than the Q701. That's due to the pads sealing better.


----------



## minion1990

ok, thanks - sr for the stupid question


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like an ass. Just saying, yes, amping improves more than just volume. Didn't realize you were so new to this hobby. My fault entirely.

I'm starting to get really upset with my soundcard. I can't get virtual surround to work for my games at all. Hell, even hooked up my PLYR1 to the laptop's optical out, and it still is clearly not dolby headphone, even after setting the sound settings to dolby digital...

What.

The soundcard is the Recond 3Di which has THX Tru Studio, just like the recond 3D usb I reviewed on the first page.


----------



## roguegeek

I have a 75% discount on Skullcandy items today. Was thinking about getting the PLYR1 since it's only $45. I know you generally liked it, MLE. I'm hesitant since it's closed and wireless, but what do you guys think? Worth it to just try? Beyond gaming, does Skullcandy make anything worth trying with this discount?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like it's sound signature for music, it's wireless... for $45... it's a no brainer to me. Not sure it'd get much use with what you already own being around.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I like it's sound signature for music, it's wireless... for $45... it's a no brainer to me. *Not sure it'd get much use with what you already own being around.*


 
  That's what I'm worried about too, but I don't have anything for console gaming. That's also because there's no need yet, but I'm sure in 3 months when the girlfriend and I are living together entirely, it's going to be a necessity... unfortunately. I think I'll grab them and put them away for the time being. The risk is low enough, I suppose. If it doesn't work out, some will get a great deal on them.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> The risk is low enough, I suppose. If it doesn't work out, some will get a great deal on them.


 
  Worst case scenario, you make a few bucks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I guess I got THx Tru Studio working. I guess I'm just too used to Dolby headphone, because THx TS just isn't the same. Ah well.

What sucks is that even though my laptop has an optical out, I can't get it to do anything but 2 channels, even if it supports Dolby Digital. Makes no sense. Was hoping to at least get the PLYR 1 to work properly on it.


----------



## minion1990

yes sorry, i'm a complete newbie to hifi.
  But i wanted to skip the entry level headphones and bought the Annies straight away (they weren't so expensive at 370 $ with exchange rate to €, in Austria they cost about 750$) so i wouldn't have to upgrade soon (or ever).


----------



## burritoboy9984

roguegeek said:


> I have a 75% discount on Skullcandy items today. Was thinking about getting the PLYR1 since it's only $45. I know you generally liked it, MLE. I'm hesitant since it's closed and wireless, but what do you guys think? Worth it to just try? Beyond gaming, does Skullcandy make anything worth trying with this discount?




What is the code? Or is it a one time use only? I have a pair of PLYR 2's I got for half off long ago and they are awesome for late night TV watching. I would def. pick up another pair if they are on sale again.

Erik


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I guess I got THx Tru Studio working. I guess I'm just too used to Dolby headphone, because THx TS just isn't the same. Ah well.
> 
> What sucks is that *even though my laptop has an optical out, I can't get it to do anything but 2 channels*, even if it supports Dolby Digital. Makes no sense. Was hoping to at least get the PLYR 1 to work properly on it.


 
   
  That makes absolutely no sense. The entire point of optical is to carry more than two channels. There has to be a way to address that. Driver issues is the first thing I'm thinking.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> What is the code? Or is it a one time use only? I have a pair of PLYR 2's I got for half off long ago and they are awesome for late night TV watching. I would def. pick up another pair if they are on sale again.
> 
> Erik


 
  It's a company thing not available to the public. Otherwise, I would have been posting it all over the deals thread.


----------



## Evshrug

minion1990 said:


> so, today i got my annies and i've got a question.
> everybody wrote they are extremely hard to drive, and so out of curiosity i plugged them into my  Galaxy sII and they are pretty loud. (I'm going to buy a essence stx or an xonar phoebus for my pc).
> 
> Is this normal or did i get a fake?




Hey Minion,
For a good while I used only a lowly FiiO E5 to amp my Q701 ($20 amp, basically just volume control on the line-out from my iPod). And it was still great, gave me more chills than I'd had in a long time. Thing was, the perception of depth, or distance, seemed to be better fleshed out, the acuteness improved with quick note decay, and more dynamic when I played Xbox hooked up to my AV receiver and Q701s. When I went back to the E5, it seemed flat by contrast. Sometimes I still may plug my Q's straight into my iPod Video for the sake of simplicity and slipping it into my pocket while doing house chores, but I'll go out of my way to use a nice amp, and I always use an amp these days while gaming in headphone surround. So you can get by without a headphone amp, but it's a step up to use a nice amp with nice headphones.

The Koss KSC75, on the other hand, I just plug that straight into my DSS.





roguegeek said:


> That makes absolutely no sense. The entire point of optical is to carry more than two channels. There has to be a way to address that. Driver issues is the first thing I'm thinking.



Actually the entire point is to carry a digital signal really fast... and even so, the cable doesn't have enough bandwidth to send 6 channels (5.1) of audio at once unless you compress it using DDL or the DTS equivalent.

I saw a code to get V-MODA's at a great discount through my new employer, but I don't have an employee email yet. Think I could also get Momentums that we carry in the store, or other Sennheisers. I'm saving for a car first though, been wanting one for a few years (like every time I have to drop a few thousand on repairs).


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I saw a code to get V-MODA's at a great discount through my new employer, but I don't have an employee email yet. Think I could also get Momentums that we carry in the store, or other Sennheisers. I'm saving for a car first though, been wanting one for a few years (like every time I have to drop a few thousand on repairs).


 
   
  Man how I wish my employer got that discount. Alas, telecommunications is not retail, so we certainly don't qualify.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So stoked. Sleeping Dogs deal on Dealzon for less than $6. PC gaming can be ridiculously cheap.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

mad lust envy said:


> So stoked. Sleeping Dogs deal on Dealzon for less than $6. PC gaming can be ridiculously cheap.


That's why I'll be gaming mostly, possibly exclusively on PC because of DRM, used game fees, etc. because games are so much cheaper, plus you get better performance to boot.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

minion1990 said:


> so the amping improves just the quality of the sound, not the loudness?


Basically, amping gives headphones more power to run to their full potential, unless you're using something that already has much more power than on-board audio and mobile devices.


----------



## minion1990

Ok, thank you all for the infos.
  A question - has anyone tried the asus xonar u7?
  I'm still not sure which soundcard i should get for my Annies - Xonar Phoebus, Essence Stx or the U7?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The U7 uses Dolby Home Theater V4, which I hear is inferior to Dolby headphone. I'd personally go with whatever has Dolby Headphone. Since I can't get my soundcard to output Dolby Digital 5.1 to it's optical out (so my receiver or PLYR 1's base can decode into Dolby Headphone), I think I'm gonna buy the Xonar U3. It has Dolby Headphone. It's fairly inexpensive, and I'll just run a cable from it's headphone jack to my amplifier. THX Tru Studio is decent, but I miss my Dolby headphone.

That being said, setting up virtual surround seems to be an outright pain in the ass. For instance, on my Recon 3Di,* EVERY SINGLE TIME* I plug in my headphones, the sound settings default back to 2 channel. In order to get virtual surround, it HAS to be seti to 5.1 surround. So yeah... constantly having to go into the sound options to fix that is soooo stupid.


----------



## Change is Good

I am _really _debating on re-buying the Annie one last time. I might purchase it from Razordog this time not only because of the deal they have but because I haven't heard about any bass rattle issues in Annies that came from them. If I do end up coming across another issue, still, I'll just have to swallow that pill and have AKG take care of it. The Annie has become a headphone that is a _must have _for me.
   
  So, that means I will have to return my HP100 to fund it. I really like that headphone, but having the X1 has limited its use. If it wasn't so hot in Florida I'd be using the HP100 on the go... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I guess a closed can is not a necessity for me, now, because it's use was to provide that _fun_ factor that the X1 now presents, with all the perks of an open headphone to go with.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, since I'm already pleased as punch with my home headphones, I'm more interested in an on-the-go closed headphone. I think I'll need to be able to shut out the world soon. My Ety's may be too good at that, I could still use them but they're less than ideal if you have to take them out often, plus... Well... It's hard to not want new things.

Despite what I just said about new things, I'm tempted to ask Nameless if I could buy his Recon3D USB. I thought I'd use windows more, but so far most of the games I've bought work on both types of PC, and I'm still mostly using Mac. I don't know of another option that I wouldn't have to unscrew and remove a soundcard from my computer's innards just to boot into Mac, and for me I just liked THX TSP more, seemed to do a better job projecting depth with the Q701s. The DSS is fine, and I can hook it up to my MoBo's optical to get stereo, but I miss watching movies in surround on my headphones. (My Xbox360 stopped allowing DVDs to play on my monitor after one of the XBOX system updates)


----------



## minion1990

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I am _really _debating on re-buying the Annie one last time. I might purchase it from Razordog this time not only because of the deal they have but because I haven't heard about any bass rattle issues in Annies that came from them. If I do end up coming across another issue, still, I'll just have to swallow that pill and have AKG take care of it. The Annie has become a headphone that is a _must have _for me.
> 
> So, that means I will have to return my HP100 to fund it. I really like that headphone, but having the X1 has limited its use. If it wasn't so hot in Florida I'd be using the HP100 on the go...
> 
> ...


 
  How easy do they break^^?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> How easy do they break^^?


 
   
   I doubt it's about how easy they break. It's more of a manufacturing issue... I think...
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, since I'm already pleased as punch with my home headphones, I'm more interested in an on-the-go closed headphone.


 
   
  I strongly recommend the HP100 for its price and performance. Like I said, I would use it on the go but it's too hot around here during most of the season. My GR07 and Amperiors are all I need for portable use... and even the Amperiors make my ears sweat a little when outside.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





change is good said:


> So, that means I will have to return my HP100 to fund it. I really like that headphone, but having the X1 has limited its use. If it wasn't so hot in Florida I'd be using the HP100 on the go...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Then again, after a listening session with the HP100 I'm having second thoughts...
   
  Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!


----------



## minion1990

haaa
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 - my ears are touching the drivers of the Annies - that drives me crazy... - is there any solution for that problem?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> haaa
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I kinda have the same problem under extended use. Use the standard K701, K702, or Q701 pads instead. They are fairly angled and help a lot with this. I also _prefer_ the brighter signature from them.


----------



## Nekrono

Which cans would you guys recommend for someone that will mainly use the headphones for gaming? 

 I need primarly great audio positioning for competitive games (BF3, etc), but also a bit of bass since I don't only play competitive games, I play a lot of single player games and games that aren't even shooters so I don't want a completely flat sounding headphone.

 Secondly they need to be comfortable, I need to be able to wear them for long periods of time (4 hours for example) without them hurting my head/ears.

 And third is build quality, they need to last and also have a detachable cable. I don't want to buy new ones because of a broken cable/jack.

 So far these are my options:
AKG Q701
Sennheiser HD 598
Sennheiser HD 558
Audio Technica ATH-AD900
Audio Technica ATH-AD700

 I can't decide, maybe you guys can recommend me others or offer better advice/experience.

 I will be using them with Dolby Headphone Virtual Surround by the way.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





nekrono said:


> Which cans would you guys recommend for someone that will mainly use the headphones for gaming?
> 
> I need primarly great audio positioning for competitive games (BF3, etc), but also a bit of bass since I don't only play competitive games, I play a lot of single player games and games that aren't even shooters so I don't want a completely flat sounding headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  I would recommend the AD700 as it's been my favorite sounding can for competitive gaming (BF3 player here as well), but I had certain issues with comfort. If they work for you, do them. If they don't, Q701.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





nekrono said:


> Which cans would you guys recommend for someone that will mainly use the headphones for gaming?
> 
> I need primarly great audio positioning for competitive games (BF3, etc), but also a bit of bass since I don't only play competitive games, I play a lot of single player games and games that aren't even shooters so I don't want a completely flat sounding headphone.
> 
> ...


 
   
  I think your best choice out of the bunch is the Q701. I play BF3 and it has been the best one I've used so far, IMHO. You can also buy the memory foam pads, down the line, for a warmer sound signature. Though, the bumps on the headband may be a toss up for you (comfort wise).


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

nekrono said:


> Which cans would you guys recommend for someone that will mainly use the headphones for gaming?
> 
> 
> I need primarly great audio positioning for competitive games (BF3, etc), but also a bit of bass since I don't only play competitive games, I play a lot of single player games and games that aren't even shooters so I don't want a completely flat sounding headphone.
> ...


Q701 hands down.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I would recommend the AD700 as it's been my favorite sounding can for competitive gaming (BF3 player here as well), but I had certain issues with comfort. If they work for you, do them. If they don't, Q701.


 
   
  Oh, man... we may have made this confusing for the lad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So stoked. Sleeping Dogs deal on Dealzon for less than $6. PC gaming can be ridiculously cheap.


 
   
  Bioshock Infinite $27.99 at Gamefly. I remember reading that on your list of games to play. The link is to The Verge, there's a coupon code to get it for that price.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Oh, man... we may have made this confusing for the lad
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ehh, just a different view. The Q701 is a better overall can. Can't go wrong with it. For competitive gaming, I _very slightly_ prefer the AD700.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

roguegeek said:


> Ehh, just a different view. The Q701 is a better overall can. Can't go wrong with it. For competitive gaming, I _very slightly_ prefer the AD700.


The AD700 has virtually no sub-bass though, so it's a no-brainer.


----------



## Nekrono

Thanks guys, these cans were recommendations from my post a few pages back but it's good to see everyone recommending the Q701, I guess it's really good!
   
  What about the HD 598 though? Is the Q701 overall better? As in the 598 would be the best choice after?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Ehh, just a different view. The Q701 is a better overall can. Can't go wrong with it. For competitive gaming, I _very slightly_ prefer the AD700.


 
   
  I can understand why, sir. I remember having _Rambo like _matches due to its massive soundstage and positional cues...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





hifigamer1995 said:


> The AD700 has virtually no sub-bass though, so it's a no-brainer.


 
  No, it's not. He's asking for a can for competitive gaming. The AD700 is a better can for competitive gaming than the Q701. It's extremely slight, but it is better.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





nekrono said:


> Thanks guys, these cans were recommendations from my post a few pages back but it's good to see everyone recommending the Q701, I guess it's really good!
> 
> What about the HD 598 though? Is the Q701 overall better? As in the 598 would be the best choice after?


 
  I really like the HD 598, but the Q701 is a better can overall as well, IMO.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> No, it's not. He's asking for a can for competitive gaming. The AD700 is a better can for competitive gaming than the Q701. It's extremely slight, but it is better.


 
   
  It is better for competitive gaming, but in BF3 I think he would benefit more with the Q701 to feel a better impact during explosions. The AD700 is more for COD whoring, if you ask me.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





change is good said:


> It is better for competitive gaming, but in BF3 I think he would benefit more with the Q701 to feel a better impact during explosions. The AD700 is more for COD whoring, if you ask me.


 
  The AD700 is for soundstage whoring of any type. It's absolutely insanely great on BF3. But again, I don't think this is really a point of contention because either cans are a win. I mean I do use a standard K702 as my main gaming can, so there ya go.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Then again, after a listening session with the HP100 I'm having second thoughts...


 
   
  Yup, HP100 isn't going _any_where... Annies are going to have to wait...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The guy asked for a can with a bit of bass BECAUSE he mostly plays single player gaming, not competitive gaming. Why is the AD700 being recommended?

Out of all the ones he mentioned, the Q701 fits the best. the Sennheisers sound a bit thin, and don't have much immersion.

I'd honestly just go straight for the K702 Anniversary or K712 Pro depending on which is cheaper. Should be the same headphone.


----------



## roguegeek

It's being recommended because he needs "primarily great audio positioning for competitive games." He never set a budget, either, and all of the cans he's looked into don't go into the budget that the 65th AE is in.
   
  OP, if you truly need what I think is the best positional audio, you go AD700. If you want something that is virtually just as good in that aspect but will give you a little more low end, you go Q701. As for stepping up to the K702 65th AE, maybe it's worth it. It's highly subjective. My opinion is it isn't worth it. If you haven't looked at the guide at the beginning of this thread yet, definitely check it out. Lots of good info there.


----------



## Echo Six

To those of you with the Fidelio X1s, when they say the X1's earpads aren't user-replaceable, does that just mean you can't swap them out with other earpads or that they're literally not removable? Not being able to give my earpads a proper clean every now and then would drive me nuts.
 EDIT: Never mind, looks like they're glued on. Seems like a weird choice for a high end set of headphones


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I think your best choice out of the bunch is the Q701. I play BF3 and it has been the best one I've used so far, IMHO. You can also buy the memory foam pads, down the line, for a warmer sound signature. Though, the bumps on the headband may be a toss up for you (comfort wise).


 
   
  I, too, only recommended the Q701 because of the price rang of the list he gave. Give us a break, MLE. Aren't we supposed to help with suggestions 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





? You are only one person, after all... right? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Quote: 





nekrono said:


> I need primarly great audio positioning for competitive games (BF3, etc), but also a bit of bass since I don't only play competitive games, I play a lot of single player games and games that aren't even shooters so I don't want a completely flat sounding headphone.


----------



## KERBY

Hey guys,im new. I have onboard sound on my PC. Whats the cheapest way i can get surround sound on my pc? Do you think the logitech g430 are any good. Btw my onboard is a Realtek ALC892.


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> It's being recommended because he needs "primarily great audio positioning for competitive games." He never set a budget, either, and all of the cans he's looked into don't go into the budget that the 65th AE is in.
> 
> OP, if you truly need what I think is the best positional audio, you go AD700. If you want something that is virtually just as good in that aspect but will give you a little more low end, you go Q701. As for stepping up to the K702 65th AE, maybe it's worth it. It's highly subjective. My opinion is it isn't worth it. If you haven't looked at the guide at the beginning of this thread yet, definitely check it out. Lots of good info there.




You make well-reasoned points. I assume you didn't me turn that the AD700 costs half as much because budget wasn't mentioned?

Anyway, if e Q701 is within budget, I'd also recommend that. I loved my AD700 and there were certain times where I got into a groove of using them exclusively for days even though I also had the Q701 (like, during my entire playthrough of Metro: 2033), but basically the Q701 is a lot like an AD700 plus a bit more bass and a little something that is a smaller change, so small it's hard to quantify and point out specifically why, but that small difference makes a big difference in making the audio more exciting. Now, I haven't heard the Anniversaries (Annies! <3), but by all accounts they go further to adding bass emphasis but lose more "air" and grandiose scale, SO the Q701 is a good choice that sits in the middle with no glaring weakness besides headband comfort (wasn't bad at first, and the earpads are amazing, but these days I always have the headband wrapped in a plush baby-seatbelt-wrapper).

You can't really go wrong, all the ones you mentioned are very, very good, but the AD700 and Q701 have special stand-out strengths, and the Q701 is a great all-around headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ... but basically the Q701 is a lot like an AD700 plus a bit more bass and a little something that is a smaller change, so small it's hard to quantify and point out specifically why, but that small difference makes a big difference in making the audio more exciting.


 
   
  I think part of that difference is that the Q701 is a little less sibilant (making it less fatiguing).


----------



## Evshrug

kerby said:


> Hey guys,im new. I have onboard sound on my PC. Whats the cheapest way i can get surround sound on my pc? Do you think the logitech g430 are any good. Btw my onboard is a Realtek ALC892.





Probably the cheapest is the USB dongles from Asus and Creative (the Xonar U3 and X-Fi Go! Pro, respectively), they're around $30, sometimes on sale from that. The Logitech aren't great, not really even good, just average and bested by cheaper headphones. Realtek onboard is serviceable, but sometimes you get a little distortion and lacks some of the "magic" that a good soundcard, DAC/amp, or even those USB dongles can produce.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only issue I had with the recommendations is that he specifically stated he wanted bass, but the AD700 was being recommended.

The 990 Pro would also fall under the price range, and is a lot more immersive than the others, IMHO. Considering he's a dolby headphone gamer, he shouldn't have much of an issue with the treble, as DH mitigates that quite a bit.

In the end, the Q701 is the best bet, out of all I've heard.


----------



## chicolom

Out of the ADx00, HD5x8, and Q701, the Q701 is the warmest, bassiest, and most immersive from a sound signature point of view.  The HD5x8 focus primarily on the mids.  The AD700 is thin, cold, and bright.  They all have excellent soundstages, but the AD700s has the best. 
   
  I would either get the Q701 or AD700, but I would _only _get the AD700 if you have read and understood all the disclaimers and warning about its lack of bass, and really just want it for pure soundwhoring.
  I would skip the HD5x8, as they don't do competitve as well as the AD700 and don't do as immersive as well as the Q701.  I would also skip the AD900, as it's soundstage isn't quite as good as the AD700 and it sounds nearly the same but with slightly more mids and bass (still too light though).
   
  So, I would get the Q701.
   
  Quote: 





echo six said:


> To those of you with the Fidelio X1s, when they say the X1's earpads aren't user-replaceable, does that just mean you can't swap them out with other earpads or that they're literally not removable? Not being able to give my earpads a proper clean every now and then would drive me nuts.
> EDIT: Never mind, looks like they're glued on. Seems like a weird choice for a high end set of headphones


 
   
  Yes, glued on I believe.  It's a shame.  Not sure what the long-term maintenance for them will be...
   
  I'm not sure how to even clean memory foam, as I don't think it's supposed to get wet as it soaks into the cells or something. 
   
  I guess worse case scenario is you sell them after a while and rebuy the X1 to get a fresh set!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm getting more accustomed to THX Tru Studio. It works very well with Sleeping Dogs...

Not as good as Dolby Headphone, but it sounds less processed by quite a stretch. I think its a great starter for those who have gamed in stereo for years and don't wanna dive into something that has quite a significant tonal change from stereo, like DH.

I can see why some people would prefer it, though purely from a surround positional cue perspective, DH is clearly superior to me.

I do like it, and it made me not wanna spend money on the U3 just to get DH for my pc gaming. I'll stick with the Recon3di as it's already in my laptop. Saves me some cash. Now, unless I can get a working U3 for like $20, then maybe I'll switch.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> You make well-reasoned points. I assume you didn't me turn that the AD700 costs half as much because budget wasn't mentioned?
> 
> Anyway, if e Q701 is within budget, I'd also recommend that. I loved my AD700 and there were certain times where I got into a groove of using them exclusively for days even though I also had the Q701 (like, during my entire playthrough of Metro: 2033), but basically the Q701 is a lot like an AD700 plus a bit more bass and a little something that is a smaller change, so small it's hard to quantify and point out specifically why, but that small difference makes a big difference in making the audio more exciting. Now, I haven't heard the Anniversaries (Annies! <3), but by all accounts they go further to adding bass emphasis but lose more "air" and grandiose scale, SO the Q701 is a good choice that sits in the middle with no glaring weakness besides headband comfort (wasn't bad at first, and the earpads are amazing, but these days I always have the headband wrapped in a plush baby-seatbelt-wrapper).
> 
> You can't really go wrong, all the ones you mentioned are very, very good, but the AD700 and Q701 have special stand-out strengths, and the Q701 is a great all-around headphone.


 
  It's a game of millimeter in this hobby. This all makes sense to me and my opinions generally align with yours and really everyone else's here in terms of this.
   
  *Cue shameless plug* Nekrono, there's always a K702, a Q701's practically identical brother, you can pick up for an incredible and flexible price.


----------



## KERBY

Turns out a Xonar DGX is cheaper than a U3 over here. Should i go with a creative or a xonar?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer DH, so I'd go with a Xonar. I could only get the U3, since I have a laptop. Can't replace the soundcard, so a usb soundcard is my only other option.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kerby said:


> Turns out a Xonar DGX is cheaper than a U3 over here. Should i go with a creative or a xonar?


 
  They're both completely fine. It's a matter of whether you like CMSS-3D and better older game support or Dolby Headphone and a chance you may not get full support on older games. I prefer CMSS-3D, so I went with a Creative card (X-Fi Titanium HD).


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

roguegeek said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But he wants some bass slam for single player, an aspect where the Q701 smashes the AD700.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hifigamer1995 said:


> But he wants some bass slam for single player, an aspect where *almost every headphone* smashes the AD700.


----------



## roguegeek

Look, everyone needs to understand that virtually everything is subjective in these parts. I get that I have a strong personality here sometimes, but I try to go about it with some understanding and respect. You have someone who came in and asked a question. I'm not afraid to throw my feedback into the ring and see how's it's taken. I understand this thread exists because of the very comprehensive guide you've successfully put together (and no one links back to it more than me when trying to point people in what I think is the right direction), but that doesn't automatically mean your thoughts supercede others which is the perception I get when things are said like, "why is 'such and such' being recommended?" Well, the answer is because there are other opinions and they don't necessarily align with yours.
   
  Anyways, not trying to offend anyone. I'm as guilty of this as anyone else is. Probably more so. It's something I try to work at adjusting.
   
  Back onto topic... buy the damn AD700 or the Q701 or anything else listed in the guide with positive feedback that fits your budget. You wont make a bad decision.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> Look, everyone needs to understand that virtually everything is subjective in these parts. I get that I have a strong personality here sometimes, but I try to go about it with some understanding and respect. You have someone who came in and asked a question. I'm not afraid to throw my feedback into the ring and see how's it's taken. I understand this thread exists because of the very comprehensive guide you've successfully put together (and no one links back to it more than me when trying to point people in what I think is the right direction), but that doesn't automatically mean your thoughts supercede others which is the perception I get when things are said like, "why is 'such and such' being recommended?" Well, the answer is because there are other opinions and they don't necessarily align with yours.
> 
> Anyways, not trying to offend anyone. I'm as guilty of this as anyone else is. Probably more so. It's something I try to work at adjusting.
> 
> Back onto topic... buy the damn AD700 or the Q701 or anything else listed in the guide with positive feedback that fits your budget. You wont make a bad decision.




Why so serious? I wasn't telling anyone not to recommend headphones. I appreciate all the help everyone gives here. There are a tons of questions I can't be arsed to answer all the time, and it's all been quite helpful to this thread.

It was a simple 'Why is the Ad700 being recommended, when the person asked for something with bass?"

That's like recommending open headphones for someone who needs isolation, or recommending the XB700 for someone who wants to analyze music. IT MAKES NO SENSE.

It's not me being mean or thinking my thoughts supercede anyone elses. It's just common sense. The AD700 isn't going to please ANYONE looking for bass. There is no headphone I have personally ever heard that has less bass than the AD700. So by recommending the AD700 when he wants some bass... it's illogical. If you wanna keep recommending the AD700 for that person's needs, please go ahead, but when that person comes back saying he's disappointed at the lack of bass, I'll refrain from saying 'i told you so'. I think it can't be disputed that the weakest aspect of the AD700's sound is the lack of bass in comparison to everything else. That, paired with the very dry, and sterile presentation, makes the AD700 one of the least immersive headphones out. The soundstage has it's own brand of immersion, but if single player gaming is of importance, the AD700.... just isn't gonna cut it, *[COLOR=FF00AA]IMHO.[/COLOR]*

I can't sit here and just let someone be swayed into buying a bass deficient headphone they obviously want at least some manner of bass presence. You put your two cents, I've put mine. That's it.


----------



## pngwn

As an owner and previous 3year user of the AD700 for single player gaming/music/movies... I wouldn't recommend it for solo immersive gaming, either. When I had them, I didn't really mind the lack of bass because I didn't have better headphones to reference them to, but now that I've gotten my hands on some higher models, like the AD900x and WS99, going back to the AD700 is completely unappealing except maybe if I'm in the mood for listening to some symphonic orchestral pieces.


----------



## Evshrug

I understand where both sides are coming from. You know I had a problem with you saying once before that the AD700 has "no bass," which is literally not true, BUT it does indeed have steep sub-bass roll off whereby it would play better than traditional iBuds yet still be I'll-fitted for Dubstep because bass drops have very little impact. It's that lack of impact that makes them great for competitive play, because you can focus and not get shell-shocked by explosions.

The AD700 emphasizes upper-mids and treble and thus sounds very airy and takes extremely well to headphone surround, the Sennheisers are apparently mid-focused, and the Q701 is pretty solid and balanced while somehow having great soundstage and excites me enough to regularly give me chills.

The OP who asked did come back, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If we're talking about competitive and analytical gaming, I fully recommend the AD700. It's just that when you mix in single player, immersion, and bass, or any combination of the three in terms of wants/needs, the AD700 is not one to recommend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG, yes. I was moving stuff around, and finally hooked up the laptop to my Marantz through HDMI. Dolby Headphone works! 

I'm gonna have to order another HDMI cable as all of the ones I have are being used, but I at least know my Marantz HDMI works, but it just didn't play nice with my PS3.

I SHOULD be able to play my PC games with my Marantz receiver doing the DH processing.

The only thing I can't get to work at the moment is audio going from my receiver to my TV, so I don't get audio through my TV speakers. Ah well... no biggie. I need some external speakers to hook up to my Marantz.

edit: ok, now I can't get sound out of my Marantz. Double U Tee Eff.


----------



## pietcux

mad lust envy said:


> The U7 uses Dolby Home Theater V4, which I hear is inferior to Dolby headphone. I'd personally go with whatever has Dolby Headphone. Since I can't get my soundcard to output Dolby Digital 5.1 to it's optical out (so my receiver or PLYR 1's base can decode into Dolby Headphone), I think I'm gonna buy the Xonar U3. It has Dolby Headphone. It's fairly inexpensive, and I'll just run a cable from it's headphone jack to my amplifier. THX Tru Studio is decent, but I miss my Dolby headphone.
> 
> That being said, setting up virtual surround seems to be an outright pain in the ass. For instance, on my Recon 3Di,* EVERY SINGLE TIME* I plug in my headphones, the sound settings default back to 2 channel. In order to get virtual surround, it HAS to be seti to 5.1 surround. So yeah... constantly having to go into the sound options to fix that is soooo stupid.




You might want to take the Xonar U1 lite instead. It serves me since 5 years on different PCs. It has a bit more hardware inside than the Xonar U3 and also serves as a very nice volume knob.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, did you reply, or just quote my post?


*AND OMG, MY MARANTZ JUST DIED**. * Just tested my TV's and PS3's optical signals going through the Marantz and onto my PLYR1. The PLYR1 is connected to the Marantz's optical line out, and is functioning perfectly. The headphone jack on the receviver is dead. I tested my laptop, and when I put the volume on full blast on the Marantz, very little of it goes to my KSC75. I tested my KSC75 with another source and they're perfect, so I know it's the headphone jack on my Marantz.

Sigh...there goes $200 and change down the drain.

I guess I'm gonna have to spend even more money acquiring a DSS in the meantime. That or just stick to the PLYR1 doing just PS3 duty for now.

I'm...upset.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *AND OMG, MY MARANTZ JUST DIED.*


 
  Get a screwdriver, open that sucker up and start poking.
   
   
Don't actually do this; it's highly dangerous.


----------



## Akin

Hello Folks,
   
  I need some help. I've trapped online looking for a headphone that I can use for gaming and listening to jazz (stuff like Diana Krall), rock (Maroon 5 etc), acoustic (Johnny Cash) and blues music (Eric Clapton). I've been looking at the He400 for a while, but I'm also interested in the 65th anniversray k702. The deep, punchy bass of the he400 sounds like it would be blast in blues and jazz songs, I wonder if the k702 is lacking in that aspect. Also, which amps do you recommend with these? I though something like astro mixamp + e09k would be fit for them. 
   
  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​Damn, I bent one of my hdmi cable plugs... now THAT doesn't work. Today is bad luck day.

Akin, 

Diana Krall would probably give you headaches with the HE400. Sibilance is a little problem with the HE400, and DK tends to have a lot of sibilance prone recordongs, FWIH.

Before you even mentioned them, I thought the K702 Annies would be the perfect fit. They do those genres really well, IMHO.

They havs very good bass. Not basshead level, but good bass.

Also, you shouldn't be using the Mixamp as a dac for music. It's terrible for that, and should only use it for gaming and movies. The E9k should be fine as the amp.


----------



## Akin

Hey MLE,
   
  I looked up a little more on sound cards, and based on my current experience, I'm happy with stereo gaming. So maybe I should just invest in a good dac/amp combo, as it would benefit me more on the whole gaming_ + music _scale. I watch shows like Game of Thrones, will the Annies be adequate for the more "fun" end of the spectrum? I know it doesn't have ton of bass, but will it be fun enough for explosions and gunfights? Even without digital surround prosessing and instead, a good dac?


----------



## pietcux

I had to finish my post on my pc, as inserting a picture did not work from my Galxy Note somehow.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

akin said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> I looked up a little more on sound cards, and based on my current experience, I'm happy with stereo gaming. So maybe I should just invest in a good dac/amp combo, as it would benefit me more on the whole gaming _+ music _scale. I watch shows like Game of Thrones, will the Annies be adequate for the more "fun" end of the spectrum? I know it doesn't have ton of bass, but will it be fun enough for explosions and gunfights? Even without digital surround prosessing and instead, a good dac?




While I think you're making a huge mistake not looking into virtual surround, I understand. yes, I think the Annies are a good choice.

Just remember, my reviews are based on gaming with virtual surround, NOT stereo. All headphones basically sound the same competitively to me when they're in stereo (meaning a low scoring M50 will be as good in stereo as the AD700 to me). It's all left and right directional cues mostly. So 2 dimensional. But hey, that's on you.


----------



## Akin

Hey, thanks for the answer.
   
  As you said, a gaming dac will not perform good with music. I feel like it will be too much of a hassle:
   
  1) If I buy a gaming dac, having to spend money on another dac for music,
  2) Having to keep on changing dacs from music to gaming.
   
  Is there a solution?
   
  Edit:
   
  PS, I would also prefer surround sound, but only if there is a possibility of also having good music quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your answer would be (despite my very, very recent troubles), a used receiver that has virtual surround. The Marantz SR5002, Karman Kardon 254, etc, have Dolby headphone. If you go this route, you have a good dac, virtual surround, AND decent amplifier.

Switching between the Mixamp and a music dac is not really a hassle. For example, if you bought the E9K as the amp, and the E7K or E17 as the dac, the USB input on the E9K would be in effect, leaving the analog line in for the Mixamp. All that you'd have to do is hit the switch in the front of the e9K to switch from the USB to the aux in (for the Mixamp).

I'd go with the E7K over the E17, as you don't need the beefier amp in the E17 (as you'll be using the E9K's amp. You save almost half the cost of the E17).


----------



## Akin

That sounds like a solution. If I bought the e9k and the astro mixamp, I actually do have an external sound card, but it is and audio recording interface with a 24/96 dac inside. I wonder if that will suffice with the Annies, which probably require a fine dac.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I personally find dacs to be overrated. A good dac is a good dac, and I found the E17's dac to be nearly as good as my Compass 2, the marantz, NFB5, and ODAC.

So yeah, E7K, E9K, Mixamp would do you wonders, isn't much of a hassle, and won't break the bank.

Another solution is getting a Matrix Mstage USB. It comes with a built in dac, a better amp than the E9K, and analog input for the Mixamp. Not sure how good the DAC inside is though. The regular Mstage has two inputs, so you can hook up both a dac and the Mixamp. It's like twice the cost of the fiio setup and you don't have a dac there though.


----------



## saintrock

I'm thinking about getting the DT990 pros, they do seem amazing for the price. Will the headphone amp on the asus xonar DG be enough for them?


----------



## Akin

So how does the setup work? Source--->mixamp--->fiio e9 + e7 and then I switch between e7 and mixamp? Does the audio go through the bypassed mixamp and then to the e9+e7? Or do you just plug the mixamp via usb to your computer, then to the e09k via analog, and also connect the fiio e09k via usb to your computer, and then dock the e7k?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Source -> USB -> E7K (NOT E7) / E9K - Headphones

Source -> optical -> Mixamp-> Mixamp headphone out -> 3.5mm to RCA male cable -> E9K's aux in -> headphones

This is assuming you're using the Mixamp for NON-PC gaming. If ypu're a pc gamer, you're better off with something like a Xonar U3


----------



## Akin

I actually am a PC gamer. I'll look into it. Thanks for all the help. Cheers!


----------



## saintrock

I grabbed the DT990 pro's 250 ohm, and the asus xonar dg. I think I should be happy!


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Fidelio X1s


 
  I got to try these out today at a head-fi meet, and it turns out I really enjoy them. They have way more clarity then I was expecting, and it just over all sounds really nice.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, you know that the Mad Dogs 3.2 are selling at $400? What 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





?!?
   
https://www.mrspeakers.com/mrspeakers-balanced-mad-dog-headphones
   
  Edit: I'm guessing that it's $350 without the cable...


----------



## Kamakahah

change is good said:


> Mad, you know that the Mad Dogs 3.2 are selling at $400? What  ?!?
> 
> https://www.mrspeakers.com/mrspeakers-balanced-mad-dog-headphones
> 
> Edit: I'm guessing that it's $350 without the cable...




That's the balanced version. You can pick up the normal one for 300.


----------



## Change is Good

I know this. I have no interest in the normal version...


----------



## Kamakahah

change is good said:


> I know this. I have no interest in the normal version...




Oh, okay. Well, Dan's original pricing was preorder. He previously stated that the price would go to 400 after orders begin to ship, which they have. Sorry you weren't able to pick one up before then.


----------



## Change is Good

I will keep my eyes on them. I'm getting feedback that it sounds better than my HP100 so I am very curious about them. I have no interest in the fancy XLR cable... all I need is a 10ft 3.5mm to 3.5mm with a 1/4in adapter and maybe a 4ft cable as well.


----------



## Akin

On a final note, as I want to buy the Annies, is the e9k too bright? I really don't want the Annies to be bright.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It will be fine, as the Annie is warm and smooth. An amplifier isn't going to drastically change it's tonality. Suince you're a PC gamer, you COULD just buy an Asus Essence STX soundcard which has an amp as strong as the E9K, a great DAC AND Dolby Headphone.

In other news, I won a 2011 Mixamp for $56. Can't complain. No cables or anything, but I have all that.


----------



## Akin

I wish! I have a laptop. I've just found out that the Annies are Q701's with different pads. I wonder if there is an alternative way of getting pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can order them from AKG, they cost like $70 though. If you take the Q701 price, plus the pad price, you're basically buying an Annie anyway, and without the comfortable headband.


----------



## Akin

I guess so. Sneaky AKG


----------



## KERBY

Can you review the HMC660 from superlux?? its like a DT770 but strap with an ant lion mod mic.. well kinda but its bigger


----------



## saintrock

I couldn't justify spending 170$ on a pair of headphones, I cancelled the order. I ordered 2 pairs of headphones, the Panasonic HTF600's and the Superlux HD681's. The HD681's are suppose to really bright with the highs, have low sub-bass and have a particually good soundstage for the mear price of 31$.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I couldn't justify spending 170$ on a pair of headphones


----------



## pervysage

Hmm.... the K702 65th Anniversaries are down to $379 on Amazon.
   
  Tempting, tempting.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Hmm.... the K702 65th Anniversaries are down to $379 on Amazon.
> 
> Tempting, tempting.


 
   
  Price should go down even more with the anticipation of the K712.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, it'll will eventually settle down to the same price range, just like the Q701/K701/K702 are in the same range, being the same headphone internally.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, having heard the newest Mad Dogs and doing plenty research on the X1 (I'm sure), do you think they would compliment each other nicely?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Md 3.2 is the best closed headphone I've heard, and it'd be a great compliment to anything, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Md 3.2 is the best closed headphone I've heard, and it'd be a great compliment to anything, lol.


 
   
  That's what I keep hearing. I guess I'm going to have to find out...
   
  Love the HP100, but for $100 more I can't go wrong with the MDs.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Md 3.2 is the best closed headphone I've heard, and it'd be a great compliment to anything, lol.


 
  MLE,

 Better than Denon D7000? I find that hard to believe since I just got the D7000(+Lawton Pads), X1, He-400 and have had the Annie for 6months.  Comparing them all to each other in single player games and movies exclusively, I go to the D7000 first every time no question.  I may need to re-evaluate the purchase if it has been bested though.  I plan to keep D7000 for SP games and movies...and either Annie or X1 for competitive play.
   
  PS. Appreciate all the info from everyone here and I have not been disappointed w/ any recommendations.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Denon D7000 isn't really 'closed' though. It allows external noise in almost as badly as an open headphone.

My bad, *I still do love the D7000 more than ANY headphone I've used.*

I meant the MD being the best TRULY closed headphone I've heard.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Hmm.... the K702 65th Anniversaries are down to $379 on Amazon.
> 
> Tempting, tempting.


 
   
  Last time I checked RazorDog had them for $350.  You could email him and ask him what is current best price on them is.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Denon D7000 isn't really 'closed' though. It allows external noise in almost as badly as an open headphone.
> 
> My bad, *I still do love the D7000 more than ANY headphone I've used.*
> 
> I meant the MD being the best TRULY closed headphone I've heard.


 
  Wait til you buy the TH-900.
   
   
  (Note how I phrased that)


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> ...the TH-900.


----------



## LNCPapa

Quote:


3x0 said:


>


 

   
  Don't worry - he's only been a member for 5 days.  Once we've had our hands on him for a little longer he'll be spending that on re-cabling easily.


----------



## Kamakahah

lncpapa said:


> Don't worry - he's only been a member for 5 days.  Once we've had our hands on him for a little longer he'll be spending that on re-cabling easily.




Very true. People don't understand initially because before Beats entered the picture, most consumer headphones that people bought were under $50.

So to many, the idea of $200+ headphones is ludicrous. Until they actually hear what that money can give them and their brain explodes.


----------



## daleb

Unless you don't believe in cable upgrades, then that won't happen


----------



## Change is Good

Sony just killed it at E3!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. I was waiting... but it's clear.... Microsoft screwed themselves, and Sony went in for the jugular. It was a massacre.


----------



## Change is Good

Did you see that "How to share your PS4 game" video? Hilarious!!!
   
  Edit: Microsoft went all multimedia and forgot it's supposed to be a console...


----------



## chicolom

Yeah. 
   
  Microsoft dug themselves into a big hole and then Sony came along and hit them over the head with the shovel.
   
_And I own an Xbox :\_


----------



## Change is Good

So how many games have you guys yet to finish before the new consoles come out? I'm at like 20+... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: I see waaaaaay more launch titles than last generation, BTW


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably because developing for these systems is a lot easier, and because a lot of the games are ported from current gen... with improvements.


----------



## daleb

Holy.
  Freaking.
Crap.
   
  Sony won. Sony has won forever. Everything I want in a game console, its there. And the perfection of the games coming to it....
   
  Final Fantasy XV, I want you _so_ bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Finally, no more calling it Versus. 

That trailer was, OMG.... and I thought that game couldn't have looked any better. S-E just brought back ALL the people that gave up on that game.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

There will probably me more stuff at GamesCom/Tokyo Game Show. A couple internal studios that must be working on things. More Vita stuff and Last Guardian(lol) hopefully.


----------



## Naingolann

Well, time to pre-order a PS4...


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Well, time to pre-order a PS4...


 
   
  This ^^


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

Microsoft execs cried themselves to sleep last night.


----------



## RandomSound

Does the new ps4/xboxone have better surround sound or is it all about graphics


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In other news...

Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.

Gonna have to eat my words...

With the Recon 3Di... the surround cues were ABSOLUTELY AMAZING in their campaigns. SO MANY positional cues... from helicopters, to birds, etc.... I haven't heard this kind of immersion in their console versions...

EVS, I'm gonna have to eat my words here. THX Tru Studio is LEGIT. 

I don't have the chance to compare with DH though, but at this point, I'm incredibly happy with my soundcard.


----------



## minion1990

@MLE: good for you - i enjoy shooters much more with mouse and keyboard 
   
  another question - will you test the X1?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> another question - will you test the X1?


 
   
  As long as he promises not to "bend the shiz" out of them.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> As long as he promises not to "bend the shiz" out of them.


 
  Lol. My X1's have left my PC 360's lonely. 130 shipped in the box with splitter if anyone here wants them! Chico did you ever get around to your X1 review????


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> In other news...
> 
> Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.
> 
> ...




Mad,
It's alright, I wouldn't rub it in your face. I've always said the difference must be down to differences in ears... maybe now your ears are like mine? Mirror's Edge is pretty ridiculously fantastic, neh? Did you try enabling some PhysX, since you have the NVIDIA card? There are times that DH/the DSS works really well for me too, but lately I've had no tactical help from it in CoD4 or Reach. Would you like to borrow mine, so you can hear side by side? I'm coming back to the idea of just buying the Recon3D USB from Nameless so that I can use one thing with PC and console (Mac, Windows, and Xbox)


----------



## Reso88

Great thread, really appreciated. Going with the HD598s and an astro mixamp!
   
  I've heard there's problems with the 2013 version of the mixamp though. Can anyone who has used both give some insight? Should I be buying the older version of the mixamp or is the 2013 version grand?
   
  Cheers!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> Lol. My X1's have left my PC 360's lonely. 130 shipped in the box with splitter if anyone here wants them!
> Chico did you ever get around to your X1 review????


 
   
  Awesome price on the PC360s...
   
  The X1 review is pretty much written, I just need to edit some more X1 pics first before I post it.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I've always said the difference must be down to differences in ears...


 
   
  Are there any good youtube demos of whatever THX the Recon uses vs Dolby Headphone?
   
  And is THX less dry than CMSS?  I prefer DH to CMSS as the latter sounds too dry and stereo-like.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It's pretty much written, I just need to edit some more X1 pics first before I post it.


 
   
  I can only imagine how the ending will be. "If I had to choose between the X1 and the Annie...."
   
  I know what you've mentioned before but you know people are going to want to know,


----------



## daleb

And now that the Sony love is calming down has been around for a while, a ton of anti-Sony, pro Microsoft comments are flooding in. I'm so confused by that... I own 2 xbox 360s, yet I can't find a single reason the only reason I can think of to support xbox one over PS4 is that it has halo 5... And the xbox one has so many preorders already


----------



## chicolom

I'm glad the Anniversary continues to drop price drop on Amazon...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The good thing about at LEAST the Recond 3Di's version is that it doesn't sound processed. Even when playing a stereo source, it sounds like two speakers in front of you, no echoey reverb like DH. It's not as full sounding, but with certain games, it sounds more natural and realistic.

Not always though. I still think DH has better positional cues on console, at least. The usb Recon didn't sound this good. I'm wondering if it's because of some specific difference...

Still irks me that I have to manually go into sound devuces and change it to 5.1, every single time I turn the computer on, or plug in a headphone. Also, if I switch from headphones to speakers and vice versa, I have to go into the Recon software and manually turn THAT surround button on and off, as the laptop speakers get affected by the surround processing and makes things worse.

It's a hassle.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Are there any good youtube demos of whatever THX the Recon uses vs Dolby Headphone?
> 
> And is THX less dry than CMSS?  I prefer DH to CMSS as the latter sounds too dry and stereo-like.



There were a couple YouTube demos from a Tomb Raider benchmark run I saw recently, I'll add them to this post if I find them before I fall asleep. IMO THX sounded best of those. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by dry... But just to say, I found CMSS-3D too bright 70% (when high-pitched sounds play), but I didn't have that problem with THX TSP once I found my preference. I will also add that someone (with heavy-handed bias) did a series of BF3 videos, and The clear winner of those was CMSS-3D... never heard that processing sound as good.



mad lust envy said:


> The good thing about at LEAST the Recond 3Di's version is that it doesn't sound processed. Even when playing a stereo source, it sounds like two speakers in front of you, no echoey reverb like DH. It's not as full sounding, but with certain games, it sounds more natural and realistic.
> 
> Not always though. I still think DH has better positional cues on console, at least. The usb Recon didn't sound this good. I'm wondering if it's because of some specific difference...
> 
> ...




The hassle does suck and seem unreasonable...
The lack of echo and "processed sound" are my favourite aspects of the THX TSP option.
My fear is that, somehow, the unit Nameless got doesn't sound as good as mine did by some manufacturer defect or something (unlikely, but...). Even though that could explain a few things, I still think it highly unlikely that the units vary.
I think I want to roll in a different tube into my amp though, I'm honestly not as in love with the bargain Bugle Boys as I was with my Sylvania JAN spec tube I used before, and I still have four Russian Vokshods to try out.


----------



## saintrock

The Superlux HD681's are amazing headphones for 31$, the highs are very bright and too harsh sometimes but an EQ works, and the soundstage is very open and spacious! I'm happy with my purchase!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *AND OMG, MY MARANTZ JUST DIED*. Just tested my TV's and PS3's optical signals going through the Marantz and onto my PLYR1. The PLYR1 is connected to the Marantz's optical line out, and is functioning perfectly. The headphone jack on the receviver is dead. I tested my laptop, and when I put the volume on full blast on the Marantz, very little of it goes to my KSC75. I tested my KSC75 with another source and they're perfect, so I know it's the headphone jack on my Marantz.
> 
> Sigh...there goes $200 and change down the drain.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Damn, that sucks!
   
  It also means my plans to later offer you my SR-Lambda + SRD-7/SB setup for a review just went down the drain if the speaker amp portion is also dead...do you have any means of testing the speaker taps?
   
  Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> Very true. People don't understand initially because before Beats entered the picture, most consumer headphones that people bought were under $50.
> 
> So to many, the idea of $200+ headphones is ludicrous. Until they actually hear what that money can give them and their brain explodes.


 
   
  Even I thought the notion of $200+, no, $100+ headphones was ludicrous at one point in my life.
   
  Now I'm here and dreaming of $5,000 headphones driven by $5,000 amps that I'll probably never get an ears-on audition with or even see in person, all because of a $250 headphone purchase on this forum, and suddenly a $300-500 amp to drive the headphones of my choice doesn't seem so bad.
   
  "Sorry about your wallet" indeed...
   
  Quote: 





randomsound said:


> Does the new ps4/xboxone have better surround sound or is it all about graphics


 
   
  I frankly doubt they gave much consideration to sound beyond having an HDMI port...
   
  ONLY having an HDMI port, at that, so those of us without A/V receivers with good headphone surround implementations built-in (like the discontinued Dolby Headphone receivers from Harmon/Kardon and Marantz) or a Smyth Realiser A8 are screwed.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news...
> 
> Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well, I'll be...Mirror's Edge having excellent positional audio is understandable (it uses an early UnrealEngine3 version which still had OpenAL by default), but praising Battlefield 3 takes me by surprise because it's based on the Frostbite engine, which had TERRIBLE positioning in BF: Bad Company 2 regardless of what settings I used. (And given that BF:BC2 put me off because of that and the overemphasis on unlocks that started back with BF2142...)
   
  Chances are BF3's going to sell on Origin for just $5 tomorrow if the vote went like I think it did, in which case I may just buy it solely to evaluate its positional audio quality. (I'm firmly expecting to not bother with playing it when I still have BF1942 and BF2.)
   
  Still, this gives me more reason to look into all that hype for those Z-series cards, in case PCIe Sound Core3D hardware actually does fare a lot better than the Recon3D USB. (Or find out if there's a Recon3Di software suite lingering around...)
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> There were a couple YouTube demos from a Tomb Raider benchmark run I saw recently, I'll add them to this post if I find them before I fall asleep. IMO THX sounded best of those. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by dry... But just to say, I found CMSS-3D too bright 70% (when high-pitched sounds play), but I didn't have that problem with THX TSP once I found my preference. I will also add that someone (with heavy-handed bias) did a series of BF3 videos, and The clear winner of those was CMSS-3D... never heard that processing sound as good.
> The hassle does suck and seem unreasonable...
> The lack of echo and "processed sound" are my favourite aspects of the THX TSP option.
> My fear is that, somehow, the unit Nameless got doesn't sound as good as mine did by some manufacturer defect or something (unlikely, but...). Even though that could explain a few things, I still think it highly unlikely that the units vary.
> I think I want to roll in a different tube into my amp though, I'm honestly not as in love with the bargain Bugle Boys as I was with my Sylvania JAN spec tube I used before, and I still have four Russian Vokshods to try out.


 
   
  I can't say I've ever found CMSS-3D Headphone too bright...even with a history of headphones generally regarded as "bright" in their overall signature. At the very least, high-pitched sounds never felt like they were stabbing my eardrums. (Some say this is one of Stax's general strengths across their entire lineup, so that could have something to do with it.)
   
  As for a manufacturing defect, I doubt it. It's probably Creative's drivers that are to blame; all the processing's done in software for their USB devices, after all. And even then, it's not like I haven't tested THX TSP Surround on my X-Fi Titanium HD in Entertainment Mode, only to come to the exact same conclusion: CMSS-3D Headphone just positions far better, even if it does have a side effect of sucking out the bass without EQ compensation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It may be that the single player portion does positional cues better than the Multiplayer. the opposite of the earlier current gen CoDs. Great multiplayer positional cues, horrible in single player.

I'll see about jumping into the BF3 online for testing soonish.

Just beat Tomb Raider. That game is *AMAZING*. Probably playing Mirror's Edge or FEAR 3 next.

And nope, no speaker tap potential.


----------



## Evshrug

I need to own Tomb Raider myself, just got an epic game backlog right now. Partially cuz I'm still replaying competitive games... I did finish first in my silver league division of StarCraft II, season 3 that just ended!

This isn't the video I meant, but I figured I may as well show THX in Mirror's Edge:
[Video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM[/Video]


Edit: Update
Ok, not exactly what i was looking for but you guys may be able to find the THX test, here's the new Creative SBX in Tomb Raider:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pti1l20UGPc&sns=em[/video]


Edit2: Still can't find what I was talking about, but I have to get ready to leave for work now. Here's one more sample, SBX again, the author makes a very good point about quality loss during transcoding into YouTube video (this one is supposed to be better, and now I'm curious what it would be like to turn the surround strength slider off):
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu4MPJ08w1k&sns=em[/video]


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> In other news...
> 
> Got myself Mirror's Edge and Battlefield 3 on my PC.
> 
> ...


 
  That would be DICE's incredible sound engine technology at work my friend, so pretty much any surround virtualization technology is going to work really well - I also have THX Tru Studio on my soundcard.  I know you're a huge fan of positional cues so this is probably making you drool haha!  If you truly want your mind=blown (if you ever start playing online with people you know that is) check this out: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Positional-Audio & http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Games This just solidifies the whole experience!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.

The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.

Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.


----------



## Evshrug

ok, saw a nice overview review of the different processing techniques, here post #8
   
  I really liked the SBX summary:
   
*"**SBX Surround*
  It's been quite on the upward spiral lately, what THX Surround did wrong... Creative took it and modified whatever they needed to and the result is something I would call: the marriage between Dolby Headphones and CMSS-3D.
 SBX does not have better positional accuracy than CMSS-3D, but it IS better than Dolby Headphones (even with a good open headphone combo). It doesn't present that "tin can" effect or have too much reverb.

 Best of all, I feel that SBX Surround just works with any type of headphones. Be it open, semi-open or closed. SBX fits well within the range and although it doesn't get to be as accurate or as immersive with CMSS-3D and DH, I think SBX is the best all rounder for someone who just wants to game and watch movies.


 I hope that helps. Remember, virtual surround sound DOES work. People who say it doesn't, well... too bad, it doesn't for them.
 IMO, they work and they're fun to use."


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.
> 
> The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.
> 
> Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.


 
  Maybe I just haven't heard really good positional cues yet then, but isn't DICE is responsible for development in all of them?  They used to go by Digital Illusions (CE).  Anyway, do you have a recommendation for a game that's a good example as far as positional sound quality goes?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To be fair, Battlefield games have horrible positional cues, since DICE. At least I thought so until i tried the single player of BF3....which was surprisingly good at positional cues.
> 
> The games have great audio quality, bad positional cues. I prefer good positional cues even if quality isn't the best.
> 
> Oh, I really don't have the time to tweak settings just to get games to sound good. That's part of the reason I prefer console gaming. I can't stand overly complicated settings and tweaking. Screw that noise.


 
  Wow. That's the first time I've read that. BF3, in particular, has some of the best positional audio I've heard. It's not CS perfection, but it's also 1000x more complex.
   
  I'll be looking for you out in the field.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> And now that the Sony love is calming down has been around for a while, a ton of anti-Sony, pro Microsoft comments are flooding in. I'm so confused by that... I own 2 xbox 360s, yet I can't find a single reason the only reason I can think of to support xbox one over PS4 is that it has halo 5... And the xbox one has so many preorders already


 
  There's a lot of fanboys out there and the 14-19 year old boys can have a pretty loud voice on the interwebs. The same thing happens after every E3 and especially after ones involved console launches. I'd like to think I don't have brand loyalty anywhere and pick what I think is going to be best. With consoles, I look at IP exclusives, network robustness, ease of use, user base, and history. IP exclusives looks to be just a matter of tastes. Network robustness goes to Microsoft and I have had terrible experiences on PSN. Ease of use is Xbox again. It's just a more intuitive interface for me and a whole lot more snappier. The user base goes to XBL too as there are just more paying users (oh, fyi, PSN will now have to pay for multiplayer). My experience, the model helps weed out some immaturity. History also goes to Xbox considering how much they have built since within these last two console's lifespans and considering they did it when Sony was just killing it. Basically, I'm saying I ordered my Xbox One yesterday. They've earned my trust they will do what's right. I know I'll end up getting a PS4 a little down the line as well as soon as they show me something to be excited for.
   
  Am I bothered about all of the policies and DRM? Of course, but I don't see them as something that will take away from my experience. I also know MS is listening and wouldn't be surprised if some of those policies changed. Anyway, let's check back a year from now at E3 2014 and see where things stand.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> They've earned my trust they will do what's right.


 
   
  I personally think they threw everyone's trust out the door at E3. There's reasons why people game on consoles... simplicity and affordabability. That's the reason why there are so many 14-19 year old fanboys ranting at each other on the web. If that wasn't the case then everyone would just game on PC. I'm 30 years old and prefer simplicty, myself. You see Mad, for example, already having minor gripes with the complication of PC gaming.
   
  In my opinion, I believe MS went all multimedia with the Xbox One on their customers and are trying to attract PC gamers.
   
  I'm not bashing the Xbox. I'm A PS3 player and am quick to admit that games run alot smoother on the Xbox 360. All I'm saying is that Sony seems to have stuck with console tradition while MS completely flipped the script. The whole used game restriction and forcing people to log in every 24hrs to play a game is insane.


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> Wow. That's the first time I've read that. BF3, in particular, has some of the best positional audio I've heard. It's not CS perfection, but it's also 1000x more complex.
> 
> I'll be looking for you out in the field.



Really? I've heard Mad and Nameless say something along the lines of "Sound effects are of high quality and fidelity, but positioning is poorly processed" pretty much every time BF3 was mentioned since it's release. You do talk about BF3 all the time, I'm surprised you missed those comments? Btw I do think its a good game, though I haven't buy it again for PC since I built a pc capable of playing it.

Generally, on the Xbox 360 I recommend from my games so far CoD4 (best COD audio, among other things it does better), Halo Reach & 4 (SWAT on Reach is particularly fun, especially on more dynamic maps unlike hot zone maps like Sword Base and it's yellow lift), Elder Scrolls (I have a good experience playing Oblivion but I haven't started Skyrim yet), DMC was pretty cool and sound helped you find "hidden" things, Metro 2033 was AMAZING and atmospheric, and I don't play any other BIOSHOCK INFINITE WAS AWESOME!!!!


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Really? I've heard Mad and Nameless say something along the lines of "Sound effects are of high quality and fidelity, but positioning is poorly processed" pretty much every time BF3 was mentioned since it's release. You do talk about BF3 all the time, I'm surprised you missed those comments? Btw I do think its a good game, though I haven't buy it again for PC since I built a pc capable of playing it.
> 
> Generally, on the Xbox 360 I recommend from my games so far CoD4 (best COD audio, among other things it does better), Halo Reach & 4 (SWAT on Reach is particularly fun, especially on more dynamic maps unlike hot zone maps like Sword Base and it's yellow lift), Elder Scrolls (I have a good experience playing Oblivion but I haven't started Skyrim yet), DMC was pretty cool and sound helped you find "hidden" things, Metro 2033 was AMAZING and atmospheric, and I don't play any other BIOSHOCK INFINITE WAS AWESOME!!!!


 
  Just not my experience, I guess. Previous iterations, yes. The beta, yes. Those had problems. Not BF3. I've been a pretty competitive FPS gamer for quite a while and what Frostbite pulls off is just really impressive to me. You want horrible positional audio in a competitive FPS? Check out Planetside 2. I love that game, but its audio is so incredible inaccurate.
   
  BTW, Planetside 2 as an exclusive to PS4... that's a reason to be excited about that system. Doesn't matter to me as I'd rather run it on a PC, but if you're trying to be excited about PS4, it's definitely a great reason to be.


----------



## Akin

Hey MLE,
   
  You talked about how awesome the Recon 3DI is. Looking it up online led me nowhere. What is the full model name?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





change is good said:


> In my opinion, I believe MS went all multimedia with the Xbox One on their customers and are trying to attract PC gamers.


 
  They didn't do a very good job. There's a resounding consensus on the PC forums I visit that if they were going to buy anything, it would be a PS4. 
   
  I primarily PC game but I do get use out of my PS3/Wii/3DS for select RPGs and platformers. I know for a fact right now that I won't ever buy a XBone. I'm fairly positive that I will pick up a Wii-U and PS4 somewhere down the line after a couple of hardware redesigns/price drops.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





murder mike said:


> They didn't do a very good job. There's a resounding consensus on the PC forums I visit that if they were going to buy anything, it would be a PS4.


 
   
  Well, I did say _try_... I didn't necessarily mean they would succeed...


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





murder mike said:


> They didn't do a very good job. There's a *resounding consensus on the PC forums* I visit that if they were going to buy anything, it would be a PS4.
> 
> I primarily PC game but I do get use out of my PS3/Wii/3DS for select RPGs and platformers. I know for a fact right now that I won't ever buy a XBone. I'm fairly positive that I will pick up a Wii-U and PS4 somewhere down the line after a couple of hardware redesigns/price drops.


 
  Means nothing. Whole thing sound fanboyish.


----------



## roguegeek

I'm an idiot. I drove this whole thing off-topic again. So...
   
  I'll be having to look at a headphone setup for consoles in the very near future. Recently picked up the Grado RS325is and I've been extremely impressed. (did I mention I'm a treble whore?) Anyone throw these into a competitive gaming situation to see how they perform?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Means nothing. Whole thing sound fanboyish.


 
   
  You're calling him _fanboyish_ but he clearly games on PC, PS3, Wii, 3DS. So, he's _fanboyish _because Xbox is not on the list...
   
  Pot calling the kettle black?


----------



## Evshrug

roguegeek said:


> Just not my experience, I guess. Previous iterations, yes. The beta, yes. Those had problems. Not BF3. I've been a pretty competitive FPS gamer for quite a while and what Frostbite pulls off is just really impressive to me. You want horrible positional audio in a competitive FPS? Check out Planetside 2. I love that game, but its audio is so incredible inaccurate.
> 
> BTW, Planetside 2 as an exclusive to PS4... that's a reason to be excited about that system. Doesn't matter to me as I'd rather run it on a PC, but if you're trying to be excited about PS4, it's definitely a great reason to be.



On the 360, positional audio didn't seem bad to me, but usually there was too much going on to really notice small positional hints to look out for among explosions, and in aerial maneuvers I had a hard time predicting enemy position by audio. Flybys and explosions sounded awesome though.





akin said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> You talked about how awesome the Recon 3DI is. Looking it up online led me nowhere. What is the full model name?



It was something bundled/integrated with his Alienware laptop. You can get basically the same tech in a Recon3D USB, or better yet get a sound card like the new Z-series soundblasters if you're using a desktop.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I'm an idiot.


 
   
  +1


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> You're calling him _fanboyish_ but he clearly games on PC, PS3, Wii, 3DS. So, he's _fanboyish _because Xbox is not on the list...
> 
> Pot calling the kettle black?


 
  Umm, I think you misused that statement. It would make sense if I didn't use all of those systems, plus others, but I do. Let's calm down on the personal attacks today.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Let's calm down on the personal attacks today.


 
   
  I agree... 100%
   
  But you did attack the man by calling him fanboyish. I realize you get a little defensive when people critisize your likings.
   
  In other news, my Mad Dogs arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Naingolann

Guys, calm down. We all know who the real winner is...*coughs*
   

   
  Yes, I had a lot of time to waste on this today, lol.


----------



## Kamakahah

change is good said:


> I agree... 100%
> 
> But you did attack the man by calling him fanboyish. I realize you get a little defensive when people critisize your likings.
> 
> In other news, my Mad Dogs arrive tomorrow.




Enjoy! Smell those delicious pads until you pass out, it will fade soon enough.


----------



## daleb

Maybe its just that I have yet to find the appeal in online multiplayer, then. I'm mostly a single player only gamer, and when I do play multiplayer, I like it to be LAN based with friends. I also don't care about FPS games nearly as much as the average gamer, opting for RPGs instead. I also absolutely hate DRM whether it affects my schedule or not. I will go out of my way to protest against things like that. So seeing as the Xbox One does all the the game types more effectively then the PS4 that I don't actually care about, and it has DRM that, granted, wouldn't affect me but still angers me, I don't really have a reason to get it.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> Enjoy! Smell those delicious pads until you pass out, it will fade soon enough.


 
   
  I _really_ hope they compliment my X1.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> Enjoy! Smell those delicious pads until you pass out, it will fade soon enough.


 
   
  +1. The smell of the fresh lamb leather is heavenly. My wife still teases me because for about 2 weeks I would just randomly smell them when sitting at the desk. And yes, sadly that smell is gone, but I've had them for a fair amount of time too.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I _really_ hope they compliment my X1.


 
   
  MLE said a couple pages back that they're a great compliment to anything open. I have to agree based on my experience. My MDs and Q701s are an incredible combination, but I have yet to hear the prestigious X1.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> MLE said a couple pages back that they're a great compliment to anything open. I have to agree based on my experience. My MDs and Q701s are an incredible combination, but I have yet to hear the prestigious X1.


 
   
  I relly hope so. The only reason I have my doubts is because the mids on the X1 aren't as lush as the AKGs.
   
  SN: Glad I pre ordered my PS4 last night. Amazon is currently delaying shipping on "standard editions."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didn't even know there were different editions. I ordered it as soon as it was available...

So, I ended up cancelling the Kingsound stats, since my headpjone gaming habits aren't like before and I rather not spend so much on one setup. I already have a dac and amp, so spending 800 extra dollars was just... reaching. Using the funds for the PS4.

Just checked my Amazon, and it says I ordered the Standard edition. Booooo...

Though it also says they are identical. Probably just means launch edition gets it at launch and standard isn't guaranteed on launch day.


----------



## voidler

I'm really jumping between the Beyer DT770 80 ohm and the DT990 Pros here. I'm usually in single player games, but want something that won't throw me out when I dabble competitively. More of a casual music listener so I don't mind a good bit of bass, but don't want a muddled sound
   
  Help push me into a decision!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dt990 pro, all the way.


----------



## voidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dt990 pro, all the way.


 
  Do I need any amping to go with it? Or is that something I can pick up down the line?
   
  edit: Had ordered the DT770, called up and changed the order to a DT990 for the same price. Lucky I asked


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Does anyone actually read the guide on the first page? I answered that there. Just saying.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





modulor said:


> That would be DICE's incredible sound engine technology at work my friend, so pretty much any surround virtualization technology is going to work really well - I also have THX Tru Studio on my soundcard.  I know you're a huge fan of positional cues so this is probably making you drool haha!  If you truly want your mind=blown (if you ever start playing online with people you know that is) check this out: http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Positional-Audio & http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Games This just solidifies the whole experience!


 
   
  Then why do I find BF:BC2's positioning to be so terrible and inaccurate no matter what combination of audio settings I use between the game itself, Windows, and the X-Fi drivers? The sound samples themselves are good, but it's extremely difficult to figure out where they're coming from, and close analysis of the grenade explosion sound effect revealed a canned stereo pan regardless of what direction the explosion is coming from.
   
  It was a big step back from the Refractor engine titles (BF1942, BF:Vietnam, BF2, BF2142), but those just used DS3D or OpenAL like everything else at the time.
   
  Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Just not my experience, I guess. Previous iterations, yes. The beta, yes. Those had problems. Not BF3. I've been a pretty competitive FPS gamer for quite a while and what Frostbite pulls off is just really impressive to me. You want horrible positional audio in a competitive FPS? Check out Planetside 2. I love that game, but its audio is so incredible inaccurate.
> 
> BTW, Planetside 2 as an exclusive to PS4... that's a reason to be excited about that system. Doesn't matter to me as I'd rather run it on a PC, but if you're trying to be excited about PS4, it's definitely a great reason to be.


 
   
  Again, I just don't get it, because PlanetSide 2 at least has par for the course software audio mixing. I can tell where sounds are coming from with relative ease. That never happens with BF:BC2.
   
  BF3 may be different, but I'm not holding my breath that they suddenly fixed the audio mixer for Frostbite 2.0. I'll find out soon enough...it's already June 13 here, but the Origin store hasn't updated yet.
   
  Oh, and if PlanetSide 2's going to run on the PS4, then they'd better make sure the framerate doesn't dip below 20 FPS every time you take part in the middle of a really big fight, like at The Crown. The current PC client wants your CPU cycles, all of them, and a 3.0 GHz Q6600 isn't enough. If the forums are any indication, even the latest Ivy Bridge and Haswell i5/i7s at over 4 GHz struggle just as hard. It's arguably more demanding than Crysis.


----------



## voidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Does anyone actually read the guide on the first page? I answered that there. Just saying.


 
  I did, your amazing guide is what I'm following! So thanks for that. But I'm new at this and direct clarification is always good too. Plus at 950 pages strong I figured the thread is still pretty active


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Everyone wants direct clarification, which is why I was bombarded with private messages asking the same questions over and over. If it's on the guide, I wont answer. It's pretty clear on there. Trust me, answering the same questions daily that are answered there gets pretty tiresome.

Someone recently asked me in pm if I still loved the D7000. 

I was like... "..."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> The 250ohm is harder to drive than the 32ohm in terms of VOLUME, and only on certain sources will a portable amp be enough. To be safe, you'll want a desktop amp for the 250ohm.




This is directly on the guide.

I ask people to please read the listing of the headphone you're interested in before asking questions. Please.

I'm really not teying to be mean or anything. Just... it's not hard.


----------



## voidler

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Everyone wants direct clarification, which is why I was bombarded with private messages asking the same questions over and over. If it's on the guide, I wont answer. It's pretty clear on there. Trust me, answering the same questions daily that are answered there gets pretty tiresome.
> 
> Someone recently asked me in pm if I still loved the D7000.
> 
> I was like... "..."


 
  I'm sure you do get pestered alot, that's why I didn't PM you, but posted in the thread. It even says in your sig no PMs.
   
  I'm sure this forum has lots of knowledgeable people helping out, the question wasn't necessarily directed at you.
   
  Anyway, thanks for the guide. Probably one of the most helpful things I found looking for answers about headphones


----------



## daleb

"Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity and its called Xbox 360."
   
  ...
   
  I...

 Did he just...
   
  ...


----------



## Akin

Can someone tell me the full name of Recon 3Di?


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

Haha. Out of touch, fat and complacent MS is worse than out of touch, fat and complacement Sony ever was. Amazing.


----------



## 3X0

PS4 won't be until November. Does this mean you'll get to try the X1, some more Stax and maybe even a Sennheiser electrostatic in between? 





mad lust envy said:


> Didn't even know there were different editions. I ordered it as soon as it was available...
> 
> So, I ended up cancelling the Kingsound stats, since my headpjone gaming habits aren't like before and I rather not spend so much on one setup. I already have a dac and amp, so spending 800 extra dollars was just... reaching. Using the funds for the PS4.
> 
> ...


----------



## voidler

With Mixamp Pro you mention this
   
  "Despite the added hiss compared to the old Mixamp Pro, the 2013 edition is worthwhile unless you absolutely want the least amount of hiss, which then you'll wanna seek out the older 2011 or the even older 2010 edition."
   
  Are the older versions preferable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In terms of the least noise, yes. The first gen Mixamp, and Mixamp Pro (late 2010-2012) have the least noise. The Mixamp 5.8 and 2013 Mixamp (which has the EQ button on the face), have hiss which gets noticeably louder as you turn up the volume. The older ones have low hiss to almost none until you max it out, and it's a complete non-issue.

I recently bought a 2011 Mixamp (no cables or anything) for $56. Should be here soon, to replace my broken receiver...

I already have the cables needed (optixcal, usb, and 3.5 to RCA cables, the last one is not necessary but it helps as you'll need one to hook up to a desktop amp), so I'm good.


----------



## Evshrug

akin said:


> Can someone tell me the full name of Recon 3Di?







evshrug said:


> It was something bundled/integrated with his Alienware laptop. You can get basically the same tech in a Recon3D USB, or better yet get a sound card like the new Z-series soundblasters if you're using a desktop.




To be even more explicit than that, I say bundled because you can't buy specifically what MAD has (Recon3Di, the "i" standing for "integrated") separately from his computer.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Everyone wants direct clarification, which is why I was bombarded with private messages asking the same questions over and over. If it's on the guide, I wont answer. It's pretty clear on there. *Trust me, answering the same questions daily that are answered there gets pretty tiresome.*
> 
> Someone recently asked me in pm if I still loved the D7000.
> 
> I was like... "..."


 
   
  Believe me, I know that feeling all too well...I guess it just comes with the territory of writing a prominent guide on a popular forum.
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> "Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity and its called Xbox 360."
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


 
   
  The especially hilarious thing about that statement is that the Xbox 360 was designed around online connectivity from *day one*, because they really wanted people to pay up for Xbox Live Gold this time.
   
  The thing is, Microsoft also wasn't stupid enough to mandate an online connection as console-level DRM back then, and thus I can see people in the university game room lugging their X360s to one of the HDTVs in said game room and playing some split/shared-screen multiplayer together without a hitch, even though the game room doesn't provide any Ethernet jacks for Internet connectivity and the Wi-Fi in the area is secured with WPA2-Enterprise level encryption, complete with the requirement of these certificate things that you can only really set up a PC to connect to.


----------



## AxelCloris

MLE, this seems like something you could be interested in backing. It's a DIY Xbox 360/One laptop kit. I know you have the Alienware now, but hey, maybe this could still be a useful link. Main downside I see to it is it's a bit pricey when you back the complete package.
   
Kickstarter


----------



## Evshrug

daleb said:


> "Fortunately, we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity and its called Xbox 360."
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Just watched that, and yeah, WOW. *Sigh* I guess he just justified people to not buy the new console, and EA is probably glad to be out from the spotlight, but damn... The current direction of gaming is becoming very user-unfriendly, perfect opportunity for an "iTunes Music Store" type solution. Which I guess is Steam, can't wait to hear about a Steambox (which can accept a surround soundcard).


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Then why do I find BF:BC2's positioning to be so terrible and inaccurate no matter what combination of audio settings I use between the game itself, Windows, and the X-Fi drivers? The sound samples themselves are good, but it's extremely difficult to figure out where they're coming from, and close analysis of the grenade explosion sound effect revealed a canned stereo pan regardless of what direction the explosion is coming from.
> 
> It was a big step back from the Refractor engine titles (BF1942, BF:Vietnam, BF2, BF2142), but those just used DS3D or OpenAL like everything else at the time.
> 
> ...


 
   
  There are stark differences in positional audio between BC2 and BF3. Sounds like you just need to try it for yourself and decide. You may find no difference. I don't know.
   
  You're right on PS2 being on PS4. I would like to think that since they are porting the game to a _predictable_ environment (not better, but at least predictable), they can take care of some of the framerate issues that plague your major siege points like The Crown.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> There are stark differences in positional audio between BC2 and BF3. Sounds like you just need to try it for yourself and decide. You may find no difference. I don't know.
> 
> You're right on PS2 being on PS4. I would like to think that since they are porting the game to a _predictable_ environment (not better, but at least predictable), they can take care of some of the framerate issues that plague your major siege points like The Crown.


 
   
  I'm about to find out soon, all right. Origin's $5 BF3 sale today...well, even if I am pretty jaded, that's just too good of a deal to pass up, especially for such a popular game that warrants thorough positional audio analysis.
   
  No Premium with that, though; that's another $15...
   
  As for my CPU performance dilemma, things should hopefully be a bit better now. I just got a CPU waterblock today, set up my loop, and IntelBurnTest load for my 3.0 GHz Q6600 dropped from 65-68 degrees Celsius to 49. Needless to say, I am extremely pleased at the thought of possibly being able to hit 3.6 GHz for once while I save up for a new Ivy Bridge or Haswell build (which is what the water-cooling loop's really intended for down the line, but I might as well put it to use on my current setup).


----------



## Xanatos

can you review the sennheiser hd419 and hd439?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I'll be having to look at a headphone setup for consoles in the very near future. Recently picked up the Grado RS325is and I've been extremely impressed. (did I mention I'm a treble whore?) Anyone throw these into a competitive gaming situation to see how they perform?


 
  I haven't had a chance to try these on my gaming rig yet. Haven't read many thoughts on Grados around here for gaming purposes yet, either. Any thoughts?


----------



## kenshinhimura

probably because of their small soundstage


----------



## kenshinhimura

@ mle

you definitely need to try the X1. got my pair yesterday and I'm loving them for music. returned my black ops 2 so will try on modern warfare 2 for gaming


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





kenshinhimura said:


> probably because of their small soundstage


 
  Really? They're pretty airy to me. I'll try them over the weekend.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Really? They're pretty airy to me. I'll try them over the weekend.


 
   
  got rid of my sr225 (pads killed my ears) before trying them gaming. let me know how it is for you.


----------



## daleb

In celebration of the next generation, I bought a ton of Wii games... Somehow, the Wii managed to be my favorite console that I own from this generation (Dang it, I want a PS3).


----------



## pervysage

Tempted to order the Annies again lol.
   
  But I don't think I can justify having both the X1's and Annies... so I'm thinking of A-B'ing for a couple days and keeping the one I think is better suited to my tastes overall.
   
  Also just curious, what is the Sennheiser equivalent in this range, as I have never tried one of those.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> To be even more explicit than that, I say bundled because you can't buy specifically what MAD has (Recon3Di, the "i" standing for "integrated") separately from his computer.


 
   
  I was curious about this "Recon3D" thing and came upon the device that you can purchase separately. Apparently it works exactly like the Astro Mixamp and even connects to consoles like the PS3 and 360.
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
   
  Are there any comparisons out there between the Recon3D and the Astro Mixamp? 65 bucks doesn't sound too shabby.
   
  EDIT: Nevermind, just realized MLE has already done a review on this device in this thread


----------



## daleb

Price-wise it would be the HD 600s. The HD 600s sound amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pervysage said:


> Tempted to order the Annies again lol.
> 
> But I don't think I can justify having both the X1's and Annies... so I'm thinking of A-B'ing for a couple days and keeping the one I think is better suited to my tastes overall.
> 
> Also just curious, what is the Sennheiser equivalent in this range, as I have never tried one of those.




HD650 (warmer, slightly more bassy) or the more neutrally toned HD600.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> HD650 (warmer, slightly more bassy) or the more neutrally toned HD600.


 
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> Price-wise it would be the HD 600s. The HD 600s sound amazing.


 
   
  Doesn't seem to be a review on the HD600's but for the HD650's I noticed you said there are better options for an all-arounder headphone  and for gaming purposes.
   
  How are the HD600's for gaming? Would the Annies still be a better choice?


----------



## daleb

Sadly I don't think MLE has had the chance to listen to the beauty that is the HD600s. It should be much more of an all-arounder because its closer to neutral. It has amazing bass, making it incredibly fun, but it also is known for having great imaging. While it probably doesn't have the depth of the Annies to most, it will be pretty much the same as the HD650s. So probably not as good as the Annies for that purpose. That's all unknown to me though as I've never used surround sound... I think...


----------



## roguegeek

kenshinhimura said:


> got rid of my sr225 (pads killed my ears) before trying them gaming. let me know how it is for you.



Now that is something completely understandable. They would kill me from the moment I put them on. Two things to fix that. Lather them up with laundry soap and fabric softener and then rinse completely. Surprisingly, it works pretty well. The second thing is to use the G-Cush pads which actually change the signature somewhat dramatically (and positively for me).


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Now that is something completely understandable. They would kill me from the moment I put them on. Two things to fix that. Lather them up with laundry soap and fabric softener and then rinse completely. Surprisingly, it works pretty well. The second thing is to use the G-Cush pads which actually change the signature somewhat dramatically (and positively for me).


 
   
  How would you compare the HD600 and the Annies? (saw them in your sig lol).


----------



## kenshinhimura

roguegeek said:


> Now that is something completely understandable. They would kill me from the moment I put them on. Two things to fix that. Lather them up with laundry soap and fabric softener and then rinse completely. Surprisingly, it works pretty well. The second thing is to use the G-Cush pads which actually change the signature somewhat dramatically (and positively for me).




I might try the sr325 in the future. if I do I'll try softening them with that method.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, the Mixamp I got off Ebay is NEW. I mean, it's out of the box, but it still had the plastic cover on the face, and zero scratches anywhere. Even smells new. $56 for a 2 year old, new Mixamp. 

Works perfectly, and as inaudible a hiss as I remember. I'm happy. 

The one I had before it cost me twice as much, had a severe channel imbalance at low volume, and distorted when adjusting the volume knob. O_O


----------



## Evshrug

pervysage said:


> I was curious about this "Recon3D" thing and came upon the device that you can purchase separately. Apparently it works exactly like the Astro Mixamp and even connects to consoles like the PS3 and 360.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Recon3D-External-Enhancer/dp/B005FKT70O/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
> 
> ...




So, you gleaned a few words from my post, without actually reading it?
I was being very distinct. MLE has the integrated solution "Recon3Di" bundled with his Alienware laptop, I had used (and done the most extensive review I've seen on e web, see my signature for a link) on the "Recon3D USB," which is the device you linked to on amazon. I may not have mentioned since you started posting here that it's a great value proposition at new versus the Mixamp, but I've definitely said it works for PC and consoles (Windows, Mac, PS3, Xbox 360, anything with an optical out sending a DDL encoded signal, and it can also upmix analogue stereo from a 3.5 input shared in the same port as the Optical In port).

Though I haven't used a Mixamp, the Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone, and so does the Turtle Beach DSS I'm using now, and I preferred the Recon3D that I had when double-amped. Seems MLE is having a better experience now with his Recon3Di than with the Recon3D USB he borrowed from someone else before when he wrote the review.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, the Mixamp I got off Ebay is NEW. I mean, it's out of the box, but it still had the plastic cover on the face, and zero scratches anywhere. Even smells new. $56 for a 2 year old, new Mixamp.
> 
> Works perfectly, and as inaudible a hiss as I remember. I'm happy.
> 
> The one I had before it cost me twice as much, had a severe channel imbalance at low volume, and distorted when adjusting the volume knob. O_O




That's pretty awesome man! Happy for you! I also picked up Battlefield 3 and Tomb Raider from yesterday's sale (dunno if it's still on sale today), hopefully I'll get to play them sometime if my grandparents ever leave me alone for PC help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I missed Dolby headphone. While I appreciate THX TS more now than before, I still do prefer DH by a stretch. Still, if DH sounds too processed for some of you, THX Tru Studio (Creative Recon) is a perfect alternative.

Now to figure out What I have to do to get my optical out on the laptop to output Dolby Digital 5.1... apparently it's an IDt audio driver issue... not like I can find it. I guess I could just buy the Xonar U3 if I needed DH that badly for PC games, but I don't, with THX TS around...

BTW guys:

http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Soundblaster-Surround-System-SB1095/dp/B0044DEDCA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371215592&sr=8-3&keywords=xonar+u3

This USB device has THX Tru Studio, for those wanted to know what virtual surround I have on my PC, AS WELL as an optical out, so if you happen to have a Mixamp or whatever, you can compare.

It's PC use only, obviously, but it's nice to now it has an optical out to pass on Dolby Digital.

Not sure the Recon 3D USB has an optical out(?).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lookie what we have here. 

I got my refund for the Kingsound stats (which I'm no longer getting, unfortunately), and immediately ordered these with one day shipping off Amazon.

I'll be the first person on youtube to unbox them (though it was obviously rushed). 

I'll put the link up later.

First impressions:

This is it. No... seriously. This is what I WISH the DT990 would've sounded like.

Since I'm broke, and VERY happy... consider this my end game. 

As for the fit... after bending the headband... it fits about as good as the 990s fit for me.

Sound impressions: Crisp, clear, and the bass is quite full and fun without it being basshead level obnoxious.

The sound SIGNATURE is what I wanted. I couldn't be happier with these...

BTW, the Mediabridge cable:

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B004LU1U2M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1371234896&sr=8-2&keywords=mediabridge+3.5

Fits great, and I may have to do more testing, but I swear it sounds cleaner than the stock cable.

I'll have more impressions later...


----------



## Happy Bullets

Im not a big cable advocate but I could notice a difference when upgrading the Fidelio cable. Finally.........


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Spoiler: Hidden%20text
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Saw that coming. I'm sure many people will be looking forward to your full review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest, I KNEW i would love the sound before even hearing them just based off all the impressions. The ONLY thing that held me back for so long was the fit. If the headband were plastic, I wouldn't have been able to bend them to fit my head. 

Thankfully, they are JUST at the point where it's big enough for my head without out it being horribly tight and overextended. My fears have been proven false.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To be honest, I KNEW i would love the sound before even hearing them just based off all the impressions.


 
  Haha, I got to try these last week. They really are awesome, aren't they?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_-tOJG6OKY&feature=youtu.be

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_-tOJG6OKY[/VIDEO]

It's still updating for the HD quality, but here's the unboxing.

Sorry for the few errors in the vid. The cable isn't braided. I meant to say it was covered in fancy cloth material. Also, I apologize for not attaching the cable to the headphones, though it's pretty obvious... easy plug and play. No locking mechanism, and most 3.5mm cables should work just fine as long as it's not too bulky.


----------



## TMRaven

I have a strange feeling it won't be your end game.
   
  Btw what happened to the kingsound stat?


----------



## 3X0

I dunno. People have been saying the X1 would be endgame for quite a while, and I just don't see the need to buy anything else unless you're just curious.


----------



## TMRaven

He is curiouslustenvy.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> I dunno. People have been saying the X1 would be endgame for quite a while, and I just don't see the need to buy anything else unless you're just curious.


 
  I tried it at a local store the other day for about an hour. Definitely not enough time to come to any conclusions, but it was long enough for me to know there's no room or want in my journey for a pretty colored basshead can. I'm sure it's going to be something people consider to be "end game" material who want a bass heavy signature and could be the last in their line before hitting the diminishing returns factor. I'm just not the target for that signature.


----------



## minion1990

do you like them better than the Annies?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> do you like them better than the Annies?


 
  You would get a much more educated answer from Chico than you would ever get from me since he has experience with both. Maybe he'll chime in here, but my initial feeling is, absolutely not.


----------



## Change is Good

I know the picture quality is crappy... but I wanted to share that these are a match made in heaven...


----------



## daleb

Chico said something along the lines of that they are completely different flavors and complement each other very well. He wouldn't be able to choose between the two.


----------



## roguegeek

I feel like I want all of my headphones to _look_ like the X1. It's damn sexy.


----------



## Naingolann

Stop tempting me! I need to save money for my PS4. :,(


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> Chico said something along the lines of that they are completely different flavors and complement each other very well. He wouldn't be able to choose between the two.




That's how I feel as well. Two different kinds of awesome. The Annie is more balanced, the X1 is more fun. Both have their place, and both are special to me.

For most of my main music genres (which tend to rely on bass), the X1 is more ideal.

It's really apples vs oranges.

If you love the DT990 and want a natural evolution of those (meaning more refinement, more realistic, and considerably less treble fatigue aka way less bright), the X1 is what you want.

Also, the X1 goes lower/deeper, while the 990 is more mid bassy. I prefer lower/deeper bass (more rumble, less bass headaches).


----------



## Kamakahah

Man, making it harder to decide each day. Looking for a great open compliment to the MD's. I wanted the open one to also double for gaming. Was set on the Annie, just waiting until after the Los Angeles meet. But now the X1 might be a contender... Le sigh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a hard choice, and they are in the same price range.

While the X1 is leaning towards fun, it is actually (and IMHO undoubtedly) tonally neutral. It may be bottom heavy, but it is quite linear, with a slight tip up in the treble.

The Annie is tonally warm, and more balanced, with stellar mids, and smooth, non fatiguing treble.

I think those who have the Mad Dogs should decide if they want something open with the similar types of strengths (Annie), or something different and complimentary (X1).

Also, those wjo like the HE400 would also like the X1. It again wins in the treble region which is a weakness on the HE400 (overly emphasized). Lower mids are better on the HE400 (among the best in male vocals), and upper mids are a win for the X1 (too recessed on the HE400). Bass is all HE400 in that it is evenly full from sub bass to mid bass, but it's not as fun injected as the X1 which is emphasized/colored, so bassheads may prefer the X1 more.


----------



## Evshrug

I gave up on deciding if something sounded neutral XD
Balanced is easy enough to get a feel for, but sometimes you don't care if something is out of balance.
I want Creative to make Mac drivers for their internal sound cards :,( Me wants a Soundblaster Z, but I don't want to have to open my computer and remove the card every time I want to boot into Mac instead of Windows.

P.S. did I mention, I jumped on the BF3 sale too, and grabbed Tomb Raider while I was at it? Wanna give my GTX 660 something to impress me with now that I've beaten some old Star Wars games 

P.P.S, and way off topic... Does anyone have experience driving stick-shift cars?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Seems MLE is having a better experience now with his Recon3Di than with the Recon3D USB he borrowed from someone else before when he wrote the review.


 
   
  That "someone else" is right here, you know...and I can personally attest to the Recon3D USB in question not being broken or anything. (Well, there was a lead weight slab rattling around in there because the screw stud keeping it in place snapped, but it was 100% functional, no PCB damage or anything.) It might just need a driver/firmware update for all I know, but the February 2013 drivers didn't change much, if anything.
   
  Anyway, time to put BF3's audio to the test...very first impressions are that while the positioning still sounds strangely "off" at times, it's still far, FAR better than Bad Company 2's positioning ever was, so DICE actually did get their act together. And there's one more trick they did that I'm not sure HOW they pulled it off given the way XAudio2 works, but...the helicopters in the first real singleplayer mission after you exit the APC...they legitimately sounded ABOVE my head.
   
  My prior statements on BF3 were based on extrapolations from BF:BC2's audio performance (they're both Frostbite engine-based, after all), which may very well be incorrect in retrospect. This is why I need more hands-on experience with things, but I just wasn't willing to spend more than $5 on BF3 after having lost faith in DICE's ability to make a good Battlefield game.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, I mean neutral in tonality. I find the Q701 to be pretty close to neutral in tonality too. The Annie is definitely warm.

So I compared Sleeping Dogs on PS3 via DH vs on PC via THX Tru Studio. I am definitely still for DH in terms of the surround effect, and rear cues.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Stop tempting me! I need to save money for my PS4. :,(


 
  BTW, I just preordered my PS4 on top of my Xbox One. My wallet hates me.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Damn it, something's up with the Titanium HD drivers causing some nasty audio distortion out of the blue, I think.
   
  *uninstalls Creative drivers and runs Titanium HD in driverless Windows HD audio device mode, distortion goes away*
   
  Normally, this card works just fine...that was unexpected, to say the least. Too bad I'm stuck in old-fashioned one-dimensional stereo mode like this...but this would be a good time to evaluate a few games.
   
  *fires up Battlefield: Bad Company 2, still finds the audio positioning as terrible as remembered, can't find an "enhanced stereo mode" option*
   
  Yeah, I still don't get how anyone can get any semblance of directionality with that game's audio.
   
  *fires up Battlefield 3, turns on enhanced stereo mode*
   
  ...Well, I'll be damned. A game with its own binaural mixing mode, no need for a sound card to mix it for you, and it actually doesn't suck! This whole time, I was thinking that BF3 was going to sound just as terrible as BF:BC2 (positionally speaking), and yet DICE did get their act together after all. Maybe there's hope yet for the Frostbite engine...regardless, I'll have to eat all my words on that one assumption.
   
  I still wish they weren't trying to shove this Battlelog crap down our throats, though...
   
  *goes back to reinstalling the Titanium HD's drivers*


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's how I feel as well. Two different kinds of awesome. The Annie is more balanced, the X1 is more fun. Both have their place, and both are special to me.
> 
> For most of my main music genres (which tend to rely on bass), the X1 is more ideal.
> 
> ...


 
  So are you saying the X1 and DT 990 are relatively close in signature with the X1 being a refinement of that signature? I haven't heard the DT 990 in quite some time and just don't remember it at all. Also, could you talk a little more of your impressions with the X1's treble? Would you consider them V-shaped?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Damn it, something's up with the Titanium HD drivers causing some nasty audio distortion out of the blue, I think.
> 
> *uninstalls Creative drivers and runs Titanium HD in driverless Windows HD audio device mode, distortion goes away*
> 
> ...


 
  Oh good! I'm glad you had a good experience with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> So are you saying the X1 and DT 990 are relatively close in signature with the X1 being a refinement of that signature? I haven't heard the DT 990 in quite some time and just don't remember it at all. Also, could you talk a little more of your impressions with the X1's treble? Would you consider them V-shaped?




Not exacty. I mostly mean that people who love the 990s and wish for some better mids and less treble should look into the X1. They are both open, bassy, energetic cans, with good soundstage. That's a rarity, which is why the comparison is valid, IMHO.

Despite its tilt towards bass, the X1 is pretty linear after the bass... . So I wouldn't necessary call it V-shaped. Maybe a hint more treble than mids, but not to the point of it being V shaped. Also, the treble rolls off quite quickly after the 10khz peak, meaning, it's not very fatiguing, and a lot of it is quite smooth. I noticed on some songs, some S sounds aren't as sparkly as others.


----------



## NamelessPFG

*reinstalls Titanium HD drivers, notices that there's an updated driver on Creative's site, installs that instead of the old beta driver update, distortion's gone*
   
  That's a relief.
   
  *makes a bit more progress in BF3*
   
  Yeah, I'm still getting the impression that Enhanced Stereo Mode is legit, to the point where I don't even feel the need to turn on CMSS-3D Headphone...at least in singleplayer.
   
  I don't want to venture out into multiplayer just yet. Not without a coordinated group of friends to back me up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pc version of BF3.... tell me WHY DAFUQ do I have to be online just to play? Jesus. And it I have to start the game through the browser?

SOOOO stupid.

Of course, the seriously wiitarded Battlelog is updating...


----------



## pervysage

Hey, MLE, did you get your X1's at $299?
   
  I noticed the price drop just now and they refuse to refund the $50 (I got them at 350 last week) and say I should return them for a full refund and re-order them at the new price. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  They said the policy is they will only refund if it is within 7 days of the delivery date and it has been 11 since I received mine. BS in my opinion... they are just hoping people will not want to go through the hassle of returning a perfectly good pair and getting a new one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess I have to call Amazon. It's been a day since delivery. $50 is $50. Lol.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I guess I have to call Amazon. It's been a day since delivery. $50 is $50. Lol.


 
   
  Lol... lucky you. I gotta return the damn things just to get my $50


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Did it through their chat. $50 credited to my account. 

Thanks for the heads up. Didn't expect them to drop the price that quickly.

$300 for the X1 is EXACTLY what I feel it should cost to compete with the mid-fi cans like the 880/990, HD600/650, Q701/K70x, etc.

Not gonna lie though, I'd have paid $400 for them. :rolleyes:


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Did it through their chat. $50 credited to my account.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  No problem, lol. I'm just pissed I have to return them to get the difference refund.
   
  This has me considering just getting the Annies back again... but I'm just loving the bass on the X1's for the genres I listen to


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm considering getting the K712 Pro just to prove they are the same as the Annie... though honestly I can't afford it. I'm actually over my Amazon Store Card's limit, and will have to get under the limit by next pay period.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW, Amazon is bringing jobs here, and next year, they're going to start charging state tax.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, Amazon is bringing jobs here, and next year, they're going to start charging state tax.


 
   
  I thought it only depended on their warehouse locations?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that's what I mean. It was on a newspaper. They're coming here.


----------



## Sony Slave

Hey head-fi!
  Can you guys help me out with this? A poster recommended that I bring up my question here.
   
  Basically I want to know how if this setup up will work.
       
   
   
   
  Can anyone guide me through on how I can hook up amazing headphones to an amazing sound card, into a gaming system and make it work? Am I missing anything in these pictures?
   
  Pics would help me asses the situation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jesus man... the X1 has a whopping amount of bass. O_O

I just don't know how open headphones can pull off bass this strong. It's tickling my ears.


----------



## 3X0

I think the real question on everyone's ears is: how _low_ can it go?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> BTW, Amazon is bringing jobs here, and next year, they're going to start charging state tax.


 
  They started doing that to us this year in CA. Hate. This was the reason they were my goto. Now with Best Buy and Target doing price match with Amazon full time instead of just the holidays, it just makes more sense to grab it from one of those retailers _*if*_ it's in stock.


----------



## kenshinhimura

3x0 said:


> I think the real question on everyone's ears is: how _low_ can it go?




Someone post the Ludacris video =p


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lookie what we have here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I'm SO glad you decided to pick these up. 
   
  Hopefully you understand while I've been so pushy to get you to try them:
   
_ -   __"I do think these are a nearly perfect fit for MLE's preferences in a headphone._"
   -   _"My new goal is to get MLE to buy a pair of these ASAP, as I think they are the perfect headphone for him._"
   -    _"You need to stop screwing around, order a pair, and find a way to make the headband fit  - because I'm confident you will LOVE the signature coming from these. These are pretty much what I hoped they would be, and I seriously think these are also what _you _have been looking for._"
   
  I know your sound preferences well enough to know that the X1s should be a natural fit for you. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I won't try and stop you from selling them in two weeks though...





   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I myself am going to hang on to them because they check SO MANY boxes, and like I said earlier.... "_These are probably the best headphones for gaming I've personally heard.  I say this because they have the highest combination of "competitive" and "fun" I've heard in one headphone."_
   
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Thankfully, they are JUST at the point where it's big enough for my head without out it being horribly tight and overextended. My fears have been proven false.


 
   
  ...and I'm glad they fit OK.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can you post a picture of how you bent them to fit?
   
   
   
   
  Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> do you like them better than the Annies?


 
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> Chico said something along the lines of that they are *different flavors and complement each other very well*. He wouldn't be able to choose between the two.


 
   
   
   Yes, and...
   
   

 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> That's how I feel as well. Two different kinds of awesome.
> 
> The *Annie is more balanced, the X1 is more fun. Both have their place*, and both are special to me.
> 
> It's really *apples vs oranges.*


 
   
  This ^  x1000
   
  You can't fault the Anniversaries for being more balanced, and neither can you fault the X1s for being more fun.  ONE single headphone can't _simultaneously _be both flat and balanced AND bassy and fun. 
   
_That's_ WHY they compliment each other....and that's why I've kept both of them.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Evs, I mean neutral in tonality. I find the Q701 to be pretty close to neutral in tonality too. The Annie is definitely warm.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> While the X1 is leaning towards fun, it is actually (and IMHO undoubtedly) tonally neutral. It may be bottom heavy, but it is quite linear, with a slight tip up in the treble.
> 
> The Annie is tonally warm, and more balanced, with stellar mids, and smooth, non fatiguing treble.


 
   
   
  If you consider the Q701 as neutral, then the X1 is definitely warm.  The Q701 sounds colder, lighter, and thinner than either the X1 or Anniversary.
   
  The X1 is similar in warmth to the Anniversaries, it just gets there a different way.  The Anniversaries have slightly warmer treble than the X1s and sound a little smoother and flatter but still warm.  The X1s bigger bass and low end gives it warmth, with the slight treble sparkle counteracting it just a bit.  The mids themselves sound fairly neutral though.
   
  Both sound warm and smooth next to the Q701 though.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sony slave said:


> Hey head-fi!
> Can you guys help me out with this? A poster recommended that I bring up my question here.
> 
> Basically I want to know how if this setup up will work.
> ...


 
   
  There's a critical problem with trying to use a computer with a sound card as a fancy Mixamp: the S/PDIF inputs CANNOT decode Dolby Digital and DTS signals. You just get nothing, unless it's in stereo PCM.
   
  Apparently, it's because Dolby and DTS don't take too kindly to sound card manufacturers having that capability, and won't offer a license if they attempt it...


----------



## Sony Slave

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> There's a critical problem with trying to use a computer with a sound card as a fancy Mixamp: the S/PDIF inputs CANNOT decode Dolby Digital and DTS signals. You just get nothing, unless it's in stereo PCM.
> 
> Apparently, it's because Dolby and DTS don't take too kindly to sound card manufacturers having that capability, and won't offer a license if they attempt it...


 
  That sucks!
  So if I just replace the ZXR sound card with a USB Dolby Surround Sound Processor, I will get surround sound (it worked for the 360 and PS3) .Like this picture below.
   
   

   
   
  But would the potential audio of the ZXR Sound Card (if it worked), exceed the DSS2? Or would it be negligible?
   
  And thanks for clearing things up.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sony slave said:


> Hey head-fi!
> Can you guys help me out with this? A poster recommended that I bring up my question here.
> 
> Basically I want to know how if this setup up will work.
> ...


 
   
   
  As Nameless said, that setup won't work as PC soundcards won't accept DD 5.1.
   
  You will need a mixamp/DSS/Recon3D/etc. device instead, the setup will look like this:


----------



## Sony Slave

Works for me, thank you!


----------



## Echo Six

That's roughly similar to what I'm doing. Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still have that setup without the mixamp right? My xbox is in a cupboard at the moment but I recall you can adjust the microphone and game volume in the xbox's voice settings. So you could set up the relative voice/game levels on the xbox and then change the actual headphone volume using your amp correct? The microphone would plug straight into the controller using a 2.5/3.5mm adapter. Obviously it's more convenient to have the mixamp especially if you play alot of multiplayer, but for someone who has already spent far too much already (lol) the above setup is workable yeah?


----------



## Sony Slave

Quote: 





echo six said:


> That's roughly similar to what I'm doing. Correct me if I'm wrong but you can still have that setup without the mixamp right? My xbox is in a cupboard at the moment but I recall you can adjust the microphone and game volume in the xbox's voice settings. So you could set up the relative voice/game levels on the xbox and then change the actual headphone volume using your amp correct? The microphone would plug straight into the controller using a 2.5/3.5mm adapter. Obviously it's more convenient to have the mixamp especially if you play alot of multiplayer, but for someone who has already spent far too much already (lol) the above setup is workable yeah?


 
  It would work. You'll just have to plug your headphones into the back of your TV's headphone jack.
  I did it with my T.V. for BFBC2. It was amazing!
   
  My setup could actually be useless, since the PS4 controller has a freaking headphone jack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbvbcemxAlM
   
  I'll guess we'll see after I get the money to pre order the thing.


----------



## chicolom

Umm...the whole point is to get _surround sound_ to the headphones, which isn't possible unless a DD 5.1 decoding device is used.
   
  I _believe _the Xbox's method of adjusting game/voice volume is to just drop the game volume while chat is happening, then raise it back up once it has stopped.  
   
  I'm pretty sure the PS4s controller/headphone jack will just be a weak stereo output...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I found that my Mixamp is the ONLY Mixamp I've owned that distorts the sound if I max the volume and adjust with my Compass 2. I have to lower the master volume to around 70% so it doesn't distort.

While the X1 is easy to drive (quite easy), it sounds cleaner off my Compass 2 than just the Mixamp alone. Ah well.

Chico, by tonally neutral, I mean like voices and instruments. It mostly sounds neither warm or cold to me. But yes, in terms of bass and what it does to the sound, it does warm it up. The Annie just sounds smoother and warmer overall, though with less bass.

Bassy headphones can be cold/bright. For example: Pro 900, DT990.


----------



## Kamakahah

So I've been waiting to ask, how does the X1 do with position cues in game? In comparison to the Annie.


----------



## Echo Six

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Umm...the whole point is to get _surround sound_ to the headphones, which isn't possible unless a DD 5.1 decoding device is used.
> 
> I _believe _the Xbox's method of adjusting game/voice volume is to just drop the game volume while chat is happening, then raise it back up once it has stopped.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the PS4s controller/headphone jack will just be a weak stereo output...


 
  I see, I didn't realise you needed a decoding device to read the digital output of the xbox, I figured I could just plug the optical out straight into my dac/amp. Bummer.  Anyway I'll have to drag out my xbox and check how the game and voice sliders work I think. It's frustrating that you need so much gear just to get headphones to work properly with consoles, and as you say next gen doesn't look much better in that department.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, by tonally neutral, I mean like voices and instruments. It mostly sounds neither warm or cold to me. But yes, in terms of bass and what it does to the sound, it does warm it up. The Annie just sounds smoother and warmer overall, though with less bass.
> 
> Bassy headphones can be cold/bright. For example: Pro 900, DT990.


 
   
   
  I see what your saying, and when you listen to them by themselves they do sound pretty neutral, which is one of the reasons I like them.  The X1 do sound darker and smoother than the Q701 though, which sounds faster, drier, and arier.  The X1s aren't quite as smooth as the Anniversary though.
   
  So I still think the X1 is tilted a bit towards warm, regardless of the bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I rented the Last Of Us. Played with the X1 and the Mixamp, and these sure do through out a pretty large soundstage. I was quite impressed.

I dunno if it's the game, my Mixamp, or the X1, but some rear positional cues sounded really distant and recessed... almost like if it was DH room 3. Naughty Dog doesn't have the best sound mixing anyways (the Uncharted games don't do virtual surround well). I didn't have this issue with BLOPS or Sleeping Dogs, so I'll blame the game.

I'm not to happy with the gameplay. I was bored, TBH. The story and characters make that game, and I don't wanna go through the gameplay just to see the story. Oh well.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I rented the Last Of Us.


 
   
  Did you fiddle with the in game audio options?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Naughty Dog titles and virtual surround don't pair up that well.

How are you liking the MD? Thoughts and impressions...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yes. Naughty Dog titles and virtual surround don't pair up that well.
> 
> How are you liking the MD? Thoughts and impressions...


 
   
  I agree. I was asking because I thought I was the only one that noticed it. Do you set the center speaker on large or small?
   
  MDs are quite different. Definitely impressed by the sound these babies produce. It could still use a bit more sub bass and some sparkle in the treble. Other than that these are keepers. Hopefully, Dan takes those two things into consideration for his 3.3 update (if there will be one).
   
  Then again, I think I'm becoming somewhat of a basshead...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I leave it on small, since I believe setting it to large will lower voices, which isn't necessary. Not sure though.

I dont think Dan would go that route since 3.2 already reduced the mids for more bass. Any more and the MD will become v-shaped, which Dan isn't trying to do.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I leave it on small, since I believe setting it to large will lower voices, which isn't necessary. Not sure though.
> 
> I dont think Dan would go that route since 3.2 already reduced the mids for more bass. Any more and the MD will become v-shaped, which Dan isn't trying to do.


 
   
  True.
   
  Don't get me wrong, it's a sweet sound. I'm just still getting used to it because my ears have been accustomed to some bright cans in the past. I will definitely trade off what's been lost in treble for the bass impact I'm getting out of the X1 and MD, though. I'm pretty much using the X1 for movies/gaming and the MD for music. They compliment each other very well, IMHO... and I really couldn't be any happier. All I need, now, is a portable supra-aural and I'll be set.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wanna go to Best Buy and see if they have the Momentum up for demoing. That'd be my first choice as far as closed portables go. I'm not a fan of Vmoda's designs (too teenager-centric for me). I prefer elegant design like the X1 and Momentum. If the Philips M1 sounded great, those would be a good choice as far as looks go too. Then there is the Audio Technica ES700, ESw10, and ESw11JPN, etc... but are not comfy...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wanna go to Best Buy and see if they have the Momentum up for demoing. That'd be my first choice as far as closed portables go. I'm not a fan of Vmoda's designs (too teenager-centric for me). I prefer elegant design like the X1 and Momentum. If the Philips M1 sounded great, those would be a good choice as far as looks go too. Then there is the Audio Technica ES700, ESw10, and ESw11JPN, etc... but are not comfy...


 
   
  I'd be interested in what the Momentum sounds like, too. It's not a big closed headphone and actually can be considered as a supra-aural to me (I have big ears lol). The Amperiors were sweet, but too U-shaped to me. I would try some of the ATs, but none have detachable cables. And as for the Vmodas, I know what you mean. That is why I have yet to pull the trigger on em... that and the fact they don't isolate well because of the design.
   
  Edit: I'm a bit curious about the Sony MDR-1R but haven't done much research on it, yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 1R looks pretty sweet, but a bit too big for me. I'm real picky when it comes to portables. They have to be small... like maybe B&W P5 small. Those are soooo comfy, even supraaural, but I dont like the rectangular cup shape. 

Momentum is as big as I'd want. I really like how the M1 looks, but I hear the treble is non-existent. Would've been nice to have matching headphones...

The ESW9 surprised me at Best Buy. I didnt like them when I owned them, but was quite happy at the store. I think my tastes have changed enough for me to appreciate warmer/smoother headphones than before. Its too bad that they just aren't comfortable headphones. That and I dont think the wood finish looked that nice on them. Maybe some lacquer would've helped those out.

The The ES7 will forever be my fave portable headphone, look-wise. But man, they were torture on the ears.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 1R looks pretty sweet, but a bit too big for me. I'm real picky when it comes to portables. They have to be small... like maybe B&W P5 small. Those are soooo comfy, even supraaural, but I dont like the rectangular cup shape.
> 
> Momentum is as big as I'd want. I really like how the M1 looks, but I hear the treble is non-existent. Would've been nice to have matching headphones...
> 
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, size is definitely an issue with the 1R. It was a toss up between that and the MD (for my closed home can), and I went with the MD. You living in Florida should be able to relate that it's too hot to have a big closed can on the go. The Momentum seems like it might be perfect, now that you mention it.
   
  So this means no MD for your closed can? I know you mentioned that you prefer your closed headphone to be your portable, also, but it really is a great compliment to the X1.
   
  Edit: You just made me put the Momentum on my wish list, now... thanks lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have much if any use for a closed can. Portable cans tend to have pleather.... which is NOT ideal for the Florida sun (you know this). My portable can would mostly be transportable anyway (along with my laptop). The KSC35/75 are what I use for these things since they are tiny, comfy, and don't induce sweat. I would definitely like something better for laptop use...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> So I've been waiting to ask, how does the X1 do with position cues in game? In comparison to the Annie.


 
   
  The X1's work very well with Dolby Headphone, and their imaging is slightly better than the Anniversaries.
   
  The Anniversary has larger sounding instruments (which can also be more intimate sounding) while the X1 has smaller sounding instruments (and sometimes more distant sounding). So sounds tend have a little extra room and free space around each other in the soundstage.  So the X1's imaging ends up being a little sharper with more separation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Basically the same reason why the Q701 is slightly better at imaging than the Annies. The Annie has a fuller sound. Fuller sounding headphones don't image as well as thinner sounding cans. However, positional cues are the same. Just less space to move around in with the Annies.


----------



## chicolom

Ya.
   
  But the X1s are a lot more fun then the Q701s while doing it.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Portable cans tend to have pleather.... which is NOT ideal for the Florida sun (you know this).


 
   
  Yeah, that is why I chose the Amperior when I had it. It's velourish pads were definitely a plus but still not fit for outside use. If I were to purchase the Momentum, I would mostly use it on the bus and at school (as I did with the Amperior).
   
  I'm glad I have my IEMs for when I have to sit in the sun at the bus stop


----------



## daleb

I have $400 I don't know what to do with. Hmm...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know this is premature, but the X1 WILL by my future recommendation for those with $300 or so that want a great all rounder with great bass, soundstage, clarity, comfort, easy-ish to drive... 

The Annie is my other recommendation, for those who want a bit better blanace, vocal clarity, warmth, and smoothness. Still they aren't as easy to drive as the X1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I went to BB and demoed the Momentum. Unless you are a 5 year old or midget, I don't see how those can be over the ear for ANY adult, lol.

They are definitely on ear for me. They sounded nice, and looked great in person too. Not good enough for me to spend $350 for them though. The on ear fit would probably make them uncomfortable after a period of time. The pads are amazingly soft though.

The 558 still impresses me for the price. The K550 still disappoints, as does the A900x. Yuck.

Got to try the Denon D600... I liked it, though it's definitely boomy and sibilant.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> So I went to BB and demoed the Momentum. Unless you are a 5 year old or midget, I don't see how those can be over the ear for ANY adult, lol.
> 
> They are definitely on ear for me. They sounded nice, and looked great in person too. Not good enough for me to spend $350 for them though. The on ear fit would probably make them uncomfortable after a period of time. The pads are amazingly soft though.
> 
> ...



I have normal sized ears and that's THE reason I didn't get the Momentum. It's just crazy they are calling them full cups. They sound great, but if I can't wear them for more than 10 minutes AND they're a fair amount more costly then their competitors, they get marked off the list for me. You really should try the 1R. I know you're thinking they're too big. They aren't. They don't sound as good as the Momentum does, but the overall package is seriously perfect for a portable can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Momentum was bordering on being too big. The 1R is bigger. It also has similar dimensions as the MDR-7506/V6 which I did try. Still bigger than I'd want.

If the ES7/ES700 was comfy, that'd be endgame portable for me. But they just aren't.


----------



## roguegeek

Can't get any smaller than a good pair of IEMs. Is that something to look at?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hate IEMs. They hurt my ears. The only tips that don't are Marshmallow tips or Comply foams, and those go stale in a hurry, not to mention muddies up the sound.


My goodness, I am IN LOVE with the X1. I'm kicking myself in the ass for not caving in on the impulse to get them ages ago. Could've saved quite a bit of money. They are literally what I have always wanted. The only thing that will make me upgrade from them is for another open headphone with the same signature with more refinement. Good luck finding one.

They aren't perfect (after spending so much time with the LCD2 and HE400, I can hear that the bass isn't as well textured and refined on the X1, nor are the mids anywhere near as special as the 650 and Annies), but they do what I want, and do it well. For $300, you'd have to be crazy to pass it up if you're looking for an open, bassy can.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My goodness, I am IN LOVE with the X1. I'm kicking myself in the ass for not caving in on the impulse to get them ages ago. Could've saved quite a bit of money. They are literally what I have always wanted. The only thing that will make me upgrade from them is for another open headphone with the same signature with more refinement. Good luck finding one.


 
  I believe fellows on this thread have repeatedly affirmed that they would be the definitive headphone for you.
   
  My question is whether the X1 satiates your nostalgia for the D7000.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I went to BB and demoed the Momentum. Unless you are a 5 year old or midget, I don't see how those can be over the ear for ANY adult, lol.
> 
> They are definitely on ear for me. They sounded nice, and looked great in person too. Not good enough for me to spend $350 for them though. The on ear fit would probably make them uncomfortable after a period of time. The pads are amazingly soft though.


 
   
  How would you compare its sound to the MD? Would you say they are completely different or a good portable alternate?


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> That "someone else" is right here, you know...and I can personally attest to the Recon3D USB in question not being broken or anything. (Well, there was a lead weight slab rattling around in there because the screw stud keeping it in place snapped, but it was 100% functional, no PCB damage or anything.) It might just need a driver/firmware update for all I know, but the February 2013 drivers didn't change much, if anything.
> 
> Anyway, time to put BF3's audio to the test...very first impressions are that while the positioning still sounds strangely "off" at times, it's still far, FAR better than Bad Company 2's positioning ever was, so DICE actually did get their act together. And there's one more trick they did that I'm not sure HOW they pulled it off given the way XAudio2 works, but...the helicopters in the first real singleplayer mission after you exit the APC...they legitimately sounded ABOVE my head.
> 
> My prior statements on BF3 were based on extrapolations from BF:BC2's audio performance (they're both Frostbite engine-based, after all), which may very well be incorrect in retrospect. This is why I need more hands-on experience with things, but I just wasn't willing to spend more than $5 on BF3 after having lost faith in DICE's ability to make a good Battlefield game.



Hey Nameless,
I wasn't bagging on you, I was trying to leave you anonymous. Neither was I suggesting you had done anything, mostly that your and Mad's experience was markedly different from mine, and maybe there was a manufacturing defect (or maybe they accidentally made mine better than average?).

But anyway, BF3 used Frostbite 2. Probably about as much change between BF:BC2 and BF2 as between BF3 and BC2. I thought before that you said positioning was bad in BF3 because there was too much going on (and explosions created an in-game effect of ringing ears, muting the rest of game audio). But hey, it would be cool if we squad'ed up sometime.

I probably won't get BF4, just because it's like "Too Soon!" but I probably will pick up Star Wars Battlefront 3 (cuz I'm a sucker for SW). I'm about to play Tomb Raider just now tho, this is the first time I'm really taxing my GPU and I was AMAZED (compared to Xbox) when I found 5 mins to play this morning.



mad lust envy said:


> I wanna go to Best Buy and see if they have the Momentum up for demoing. That'd be my first choice as far as closed portables go. I'm not a fan of Vmoda's designs (too teenager-centric for me). I prefer elegant design like the X1 and Momentum. If the Philips M1 sounded great, those would be a good choice as far as looks go too. Then there is the Audio Technica ES700, ESw10, and ESw11JPN, etc... but are not comfy...



Mad, I was gonna reply and speak about my recent-ish experience listening to the Momentums at Best Buy, but then you said...



mad lust envy said:


> So I went to BB and demoed the Momentum. Unless you are a 5 year old or midget, I don't see how those can be over the ear for ANY adult, lol.
> 
> They are definitely on ear for me. They sounded nice, and looked great in person too. Not good enough for me to spend $350 for them though. The on ear fit would probably make them uncomfortable after a period of time. The pads are amazingly soft though.
> 
> ...




And basically, I agree. My store didn't have the last two out for demoing though. When I came back from that, THAT was when I recommended the HD 558 to those guys from India as a first Hi-Fi headphone, because it is quite capable and cost-efficient. I liked the Momentums too, for sure, but I think I'd rather have the V-MODA's based on sound-alone. Really wish I could find those, and the LP's earpads were big enough that they could be "half" circumaural, but still I couldn't wear them longer than 45-minutes before some pain crept in, before I had the earpads broken in. The Momentums really do look great.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, and obviously the fit of IEMs is picky, I actually had quite a hard time with Shure's and olive-shaped earpads, but the "Christmas trees" of the Etymotic products feel great when you have the right size. What were the Monster Turbines like for comfort?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> How would you compare its sound to the MD? Would you say they are completely different or a good portable alternate?




The Mad Dog walks all over the Momentum. This is a large reason why i can't justify the Momentum's price tag. The Mad Dog is a better headphone in basically every regard, and cheaper. if the Momentum were $200, then I'd say it's a good alternative. i feel part of it's price is due to the very high build quality and aesthetics. It's a great headphone, make no mistake, but not $350 good. That's more than the X1 and Mad dogs, and near the Annie's price. Portable or not, it doesn't compare.




3x0 said:


> I believe fellows on this thread have repeatedly affirmed that they would be the definitive headphone for you.
> 
> My question is whether the X1 satiates your nostalgia for the D7000.




It satiates my desire to get anything else for now, except something like the X1 with better refinement. (the X1 distorts a bit in the bass compared to the planars). I could envision an improved HE-400 with more comfort, reduced treble, and even more sub bass being what'd get me to upgrade.

The D7000 is still my fave headphone sound-wise, but it doesn't hit as many boxes as the X1 (comfort, velour, open, being three of them).

Either way, I no longer have any desire to spend the amount of money it'd take to get a D7000, unless it's for an improved X1. I'd love the D7000, but not pleather...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> My question is whether the X1 satiates your nostalgia for the D7000.


 
   
   
  The X1's bass is impressive for an open headphone, but the D7000's bass is unlike _anything _I've heard from a headphone.
   
  From what I've read about the TH900 though, I would probably prefer it to the D7000 as it's said to be more balanced and refined while still having amazing bass. 
   
  *sigh* Someday....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> The X1's bass is impressive for an open headphone, but the D7000's bass is unlike _anything_ I've heard from a headphone.
> 
> From what I've read about the TH900 though, I would probably prefer it to the D7000 as it's said to be more balanced and refined while still having amazing bass.
> 
> *sigh* Someday.... :rolleyes:




Hear, hear. The D7000's bass is legendary to me. Nothing.... NOTHING touches it for me. Not the LCD2, not the HE400, not the Pro 900.... nothing.

BTW, I must say, i found the Denon D600 to be INCREDIBLY comfortable. Not sure how long the pads would stay cool, but man... it felt damn good on my head.

edit: I'm hating my laptop's shift key. If i don't capitalize... blame that, not me.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It satiates my desire to get anything else for now, except something like the X1 with better refinement. (the X1 distorts a bit in the bass compared to the planars). I could envision an improved HE-400 with more comfort, reduced treble, and even more sub bass being what'd get me to upgrade.


 
  How about a Stax Omega 2 or something?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3x0 said:


> How about a Stax Omega 2 or something?




Lol, not with my income.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Oh, and obviously the fit of IEMs is picky, I actually had quite a hard time with Shure's and olive-shaped earpads, but the "Christmas trees" of the Etymotic products feel great when you have the right size. What were the Monster Turbines like for comfort?




Comfort? What comfort?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Hey Nameless,
> I wasn't bagging on you, I was trying to leave you anonymous. Neither was I suggesting you had done anything, mostly that your and Mad's experience was markedly different from mine, and maybe there was a manufacturing defect (or maybe they accidentally made mine better than average?).
> 
> But anyway, BF3 used Frostbite 2. Probably about as much change between BF:BC2 and BF2 as between BF3 and BC2. I thought before that you said positioning was bad in BF3 because there was too much going on (and explosions created an in-game effect of ringing ears, muting the rest of game audio). But hey, it would be cool if we squad'ed up sometime.
> ...


 
   
  Yeah, if there's one thing that stands out in the world of audio, it's personal preferences and clashing tastes. Ultimately, this means that after a point, nobody's really right or wrong because we all hear differently...to the point where I'd even argue that once your gear's high-end enough, the real bottleneck in the audio chain is going to be the listener's own two ears.
   
  I'd disagree on the change from BF:BC2 to BF3 being like the change from BF2 to BF:BC2; if anything, it's more like the change from BF1942/BF:Vietnam to BF2/BF2142, all four of which used the same Refractor engine since Codename: Eagle (the series' spiritual predecessor), but got some major upgrades with BF2 (ragdoll physics, pixel shader effects, and replacing Miles Sound System-based DS3D with OpenAL come to mind).
   
  Going from BF2/BF2142 to BF:BC2 meant an entire engine transition from Refractor to Frostbite, which made for quite a drastic change. Going from BF:BC2's Frostbite to BF3's Frostbite 2.0 seems like more of an incremental upgrade by comparison, arguably even less than the BF: Vietnam to BF2 transition.
   
  Speaking of squadding up, though...maybe we can get some sort of BF3 Origin Head-Fi squad going, for all we know?


----------



## 3X0

My Origin is Holotype but I'm pretty rusty as I haven't fired up a game in many weeks. Glad to squad along if other people are on though.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of squadding up, though...maybe we can get some sort of BF3 Origin Head-Fi squad going, for all we know?


 
   
  That would be totally unfair to those squads without tactical headphones...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't shoot for **** on BF3. It just feels weird. I miss my arcadey CoD shooting.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't shoot for **** on BF3. It just feels weird. I miss my arcadey CoD shooting.


 
   
  That's because there's actually _real_ recoil on BF3 lol. It takes much practice to get used to it. Hell, I've been playing it for 18 months and still can't shoot for sh**, sometimes...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't shoot for **** on BF3. It just feels weird. I miss my arcadey CoD shooting.


 
   
  Just wait 'til you try Counter-Strike...I have the worst luck with actually hitting anything in that game, 1.6 and Source alike. (Haven't really tried Global Offensive.)
   
  At least Battlefield series crosshairs actually give you a decent idea of weapon accuracy, and while it's too early for me to speak on BF3, BF1942 and BF2 are pretty straightforward.
   
  (By the way, BF1942's free on Origin, except it's under the "demos" section for some stupid reason. If you don't mind the decade-old look, why not give it a shot?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I played it on the 360. Not a fan. The last Bf I liked was the first Bad Company. Other than that, I'm a CoD guy. I prefer BF2: Modern Combat as far as BF goes. I miss that crazy game. So sad when the servers died.... i played that game almost as much as CoD4. I was a beast on it. My very first FPS ever. Then came CoD4, and I was hooked.


----------



## DemonFox

change is good said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > I can't shoot for **** on BF3. It just feels weird. I miss my arcadey CoD shooting.
> ...




Ain't that the truth! I'm a level 77 (Demfox20 on 360) and I still get owned when im not on my favorite maps. BF3 is the real deal plus doesn't hurt that it has the greatest sound ever in any game. My Mixamp lets me use any headphone I own and that game wil test the limits of your cans and your sanity lol. MMX300's are still the best gaming cans I've owned or tried and the bf3 they're practically God like. For regular headphones the a900x are probably some of the best I've personally tried with my Mixamp, way underrated IMO. 


Thanks,


D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A900X...





Just teasing, though ....I... do not like those...for music at least.


----------



## Change is Good

I finally checked out the newest gameplay trailer to Phantom Pain.
   
  OMG!


----------



## pervysage

I wish they would re-release SOCOM 2: U.S. NAVY SEALS from the Playstation 2. Now that was a REAL game... most addicted to an online shooter I've ever been, heh. The original SOCOM game on PS2 was my first experience with online gaming and it was amazing.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of squadding up, though...maybe we can get some sort of BF3 Origin Head-Fi squad going, for all we know?



I'd like to do it at least once! Maybe there'd be enough people to just make a Head-Fi clan, though I'm not paying for a server, lol. I do have BF1949 on my computer, too.



3x0 said:


> My Origin is Holotype but I'm pretty rusty as I haven't fired up a game in many weeks. Glad to squad along if other people are on though.



I have gamed a bit in the past week, but I haven't played BF3 in a couple months, so I'm rusty too. I have it for XBox 360 too, but the PC version is the full experience that I wanted to try, and the sale tempted me back in. How do you find your Origin ID? I usually try to go by Igni Ferro or Evshrug in my online communities.



change is good said:


> That would be totally unfair to those squads without tactical headphones... :tongue_smile:



Heh heh heh 



mad lust envy said:


> I can't shoot for **** on BF3. It just feels weird. I miss my arcadey CoD shooting.



It's satisfying sometimes though, and suppressive fire and careful discipline actually both have their uses. Sometimes I love using laser beams, but I'm more proud of the ridiculous long-range headshot I got with an AK-47 in BF3.


Where's RogueGeek? Lol I'd think he'd be excited.


----------



## roguegeek

I didn't get to play BF3 at all this weekend (too bad because I believe double XP is going on and I just started a new soldier on the PC a couple weeks ago), but if anyone ever wants to squad up on PC or 360, we have a small platoon set up and run both public and private servers all the time. Seems like there's enough of us to start a Head-Fi group for whatever platform you guys want. Don't worry about sucking butt or not being able to shoot. You get better the more you play. I'm sure it doesn't help when the game has been out for a year and a half and everyone has started over several times, but I promise you get up to speed quickly when you're playing with experienced players.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I didn't get to play BF3 at all this weekend (too bad because I believe double XP is going on and I just started a new soldier on the PC a couple weeks ago), but if anyone ever wants to squad up on PC or 360, we have a small platoon set up and run both public and private servers all the time. Seems like there's enough of us to start a Head-Fi group for whatever platform you guys want. Don't worry about sucking butt or not being able to shoot. You get better the more you play. I'm sure it doesn't help when the game has been out for a year and a half and everyone has started over several times, but I promise you get up to speed quickly when you're playing with experienced players.


 
   
  I picked up a copy for PC. Sad that it's not available for Mac. But hey, that's what bootcamp is for. I run a handful of games on the Windows side, and all that I'm able in OS X. That's why I love my Recon 3D. It works perfectly on both sides, unlike my old Asus U3.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> I wish they would re-release SOCOM 2: U.S. NAVY SEALS from the Playstation 2. Now that was a REAL game... most addicted to an online shooter I've ever been, heh. The original SOCOM game on PS2 was my first experience with online gaming and it was amazing.


 
  I could not agree more. It was amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm wondering if my Mixamp is distorting at max volume because the optical is being fed through the PLYR1's base, and not directly from the PS3. I doubt it, but I guess I better check. Using it at 70% volume is so awkward to me, as I have always maxed out my Mixamps when feeding it to my headphone amps.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm wondering if my Mixamp is distorting at max volume because the optical is being fed through the PLYR1's base, and not directly from the PS3. I doubt it, but I guess I better check. Using it at 70% volume is so awkward to me, as I have always maxed out my Mixamps when feeding it to my headphone amps.


 
  Do you think it may be a knock off?? I have seen some for sale from China and was always curious if they are genuine.....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It'd be a pretty convincing knock off as DH works well, the sound is almost noise free, and similar to what I'm used to. The build quality is incredibly high too. My issue with it isn't under normal use, and lowering it to 70% makes it behave normally.


----------



## daleb

So did you guys hear that they're having trouble getting the Xbox One to not overheat, so for now, they have to under-clock it? That would explain why they used PCs during E3. Man...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yikes.... Microshaft is having a rought time with it...

edit: hey guys, I recently added some of my reviews (edited) to Amazon. If you wanna help me.. just like them or whatever. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A21EXYTX5JWPAU/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdp


----------



## roguegeek

daleb said:


> So did you guys hear that they're having trouble getting the Xbox One to not overheat, so for now, they have to under-clock it? That would explain why they used PCs during E3. Man...



*sigh* I also heard Mr. Rogers was a marine sniper, the moon landing was a hoax, and Richard Gere put gerbils in his butt.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So after really liking the Signature DJ in gaming, music over the past months, seeing how they took away a lot time from the HD 800 I decided to get a "definitive" version and ordered the TH-900. From everything I read by Sig PRO/DJ users that are also familiar with the D7000 it's the best blend of a D7000 and Sig Pro while battering both. Looking reeeaaaally forward to them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If only I could afford them.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

I also have a a pair of TH900s on the way. Will probably be the endgame for me. At least until I go electrostat crazy.


----------



## 3X0

Electrostats are something else, man. It's hard to listen to dynamic drivers when you truly get to learn an electrostat that strikes perfectly in line with your tastes.


----------



## Akin

3x0 said:


> Electrostats are something else, man. It's hard to listen to dynamic drivers when you truly get to learn an electrostat that strikes perfectly in line with your tastes.




Hushhh now... Don't tempt the crowd...


----------



## Change is Good

The X1 just went back up to $350 on Amazon


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





change is good said:


> The X1 just went back up to $350 on Amazon


 
  FYI to all X1 buyers....There might be some like myself that are curious about the Monoprice cable but, it actually has @1ohm resistance so although better than stock (@2ohm), it isn't the @0.5ohm? of the VModa cable.
   
  MLE or other familiar users,
   
  I thought I saw that you had the Mediabridge cable from Amazon.  Is that cable = to the Vmoda or would you say it's even worth it to switch?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> FYI to all X1 buyers....There might be some like myself that are curious about the Monoprice cable but, it actually has @1ohm resistance so although better than stock (@2ohm), it isn't the @0.5ohm? of the VModa cable.
> 
> MLE or other familiar users,
> 
> I thought I saw that you had the Mediabridge cable from Amazon.  Is that cable = to the Vmoda or would you say it's even worth it to switch?


 
   
  I have a Vmoda cable that came with my Mad Dogs that I use with the X1, and it is a noticeable improvement. I have a 10ft Pipeline audio cable I use with it, too... with the same result.
   
  Edit: Sorry, you wanted info on the Mediabridge cable (have not tried it yet)


----------



## HalidePisces

daleb said:


> So did you guys hear that they're having trouble getting the Xbox One to not overheat, so for now, they have to under-clock it? That would explain why they used PCs during E3. Man...



Is that Microsoft's spin on the PC "emulation" debacle? If they were trying to get people's attention away from the used game DRM, they might have succeeded with that and the 21-country initial launch region lock. But then again, since the PS4 has slightly better hardware and doesn't seem to have reports of heat issues, comparisons are probably still abound.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> FYI to all X1 buyers....There might be some like myself that are curious about the Monoprice cable but, it actually has @1ohm resistance so although better than stock (@2ohm), it isn't the @0.5ohm? of the VModa cable.


 
   
  I've read the V-moda has 1.3 ohms though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/1275#post_9436401
   
  How did you measure the monoprice cable?  I have a multimeter so I might try and measure it for kicks.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've read the V-moda has 1.3 ohms though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  This just made me do a test on the X1 between the Vmoda cable and the Pipleline cable. The Pipeline cable sounds better so it must have less resistance. I wanted to test it with another can but it won't fit in the MDs, though.


----------



## pervysage

Just realized that the Xbox One controller has a proprietary connector port on the bottom of it instead of the usual 2.5mm mic chat port.
   
  IGN also has a story talking about this: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets
   
  For us Astro Mixamp users, doesn't that basically make the Mixamp obsolete? (at least for voice chat purposes).
   
  Playstation 4-wise, Astro could possibly just release a new firmware for the Mixamp to make it compatible via USB (like it is on the Playstation 3).
   
  What do you guys think?


----------



## burritoboy9984

pervysage said:


> Just realized that the Xbox One controller has a proprietary connector port on the bottom of it instead of the usual 2.5mm mic chat port.
> 
> IGN also has a story talking about this: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets
> 
> ...




I'm sure there will be some kind of solution by either Microsoft or a 3rd party.

-Erik


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Just realized that the Xbox One controller has a proprietary connector port on the bottom of it instead of the usual 2.5mm mic chat port.
> 
> IGN also has a story talking about this: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-incompatible-with-current-gaming-headsets


 
   
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I'm sure there will be some kind of solution by either Microsoft or a 3rd party.


 
   
   
_"While it's possible that either Microsoft or third-party makers could develop an adapter to offer backwards compatibility, we're told that the new port is part of a larger strategy to gain control over the accessory market. Manufacturers will not only need to develop entirely new products for the new connection standard, but use licensing and authentication protocols from Microsoft, potentially driving up costs for consumers. The licensing program could also limit the variety and competitive nature of the accessory market since all manufacturers would be required to adhere to Microsoft's terms."_
   
  Doesn't sound good.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Electrostats are something else, man. It's hard to listen to dynamic drivers when you truly get to learn an electrostat that strikes perfectly in line with your tastes.


 
   
  Never thought I'd hear that coming from you, given your earlier statements in this very thread.
   
  Though I do have to admit, I didn't truly appreciate my SR-Lambda 'til I started to audition other headphones...even more modern Stax sets like the SR-202. And I keep going back to that vintage set every single time, because its midrange and vocal reproduction in particular is so sublime. (Low clamping force helps, too; I'd probably love the ESP/950 because of that.)


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I've read the V-moda has 1.3 ohms though...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Tyll @ InnerFidelity stated the VModa cable had 0.5 ohm in his X1 review.  My multimeter has alligator clip leads so its a little easier to measure.  He claimed 0.5-0.8 is normal so the Monoprice (1ohm) may be negligible.  I run mine thru A/V receiver (via phones surround which I actually prefer over my MixAmp) so I would like every bit of improvement considering supposed common high impedance of headphone jack.
   
  On a side note, can't wait to read MLE and your X1 comparisons/review.  I am having a hard time deciding between X1, Annie and D7000...ok not so much w/D7000  but, the He-400 has been dropped out of contention.


----------



## Kamakahah

I'm measuring 0.5 ohms on my Vmoda cable.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> _"While it's possible that either Microsoft or third-party makers could develop an adapter to offer backwards compatibility, we're told that the new port is part of a larger strategy to gain control over the accessory market. Manufacturers will not only need to develop entirely new products for the new connection standard, but use licensing and authentication protocols from Microsoft, potentially driving up costs for consumers. The licensing program could also limit the variety and competitive nature of the accessory market since all manufacturers would be required to adhere to Microsoft's terms."_
> 
> Doesn't sound good.


 
  Dangit, Bill Gates, why'd you have to go and retire? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Edit: Strangely, I did not like the HE90. I wonder if its possible to dislike electrostats o.O


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> _"While it's possible that either Microsoft or third-party makers could develop an adapter to offer backwards compatibility, we're told that the new port is part of a larger strategy to gain control over the accessory market. Manufacturers will not only need to develop entirely new products for the new connection standard, but use licensing and authentication protocols from Microsoft, potentially driving up costs for consumers. The licensing program could also limit the variety and competitive nature of the accessory market since all manufacturers would be required to adhere to Microsoft's terms."_
> 
> Doesn't sound good.


 
   
  So no using your own headphones for gaming on the Xbox One?
   
  Booooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Get off the stage!!!  *throwing tomatoes*


----------



## daleb

No, its specifically that you'll have to buy headsets designed for the xbox one... Plus, that means no Dolby Digital... Unless Microsoft made a decoder for it.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





daleb said:


> No, its specifically that you'll have to buy headsets designed for the xbox one... Plus, that means no Dolby Digital... Unless Microsoft made a decoder for it.


 
   
  I'm sure third parties will get licensed and be able to make new products for the Xbox One controller port, but it still sucks that everyone has to go out and buy all new devices just for voice chat.
   
  Maybe Astro will eventually release a new Mixamp in 2014.


----------



## Kamakahah

Looks like they are using Apple's proprietary playbook bull$h*t. I've never been an Xbox man, but I also never had anything against it. The more they release about One, the more I can't help but feel happy/justified in buying a PS4 to compliment my custom PC. 

Hopefully their sales are poor and they are forced to change policies and future plans. 
***I know pipedream, not going to happen.


----------



## daleb

But then that license will make the amp cost more. Ugh.
   
  Quote: 





> Hopefully their sales are poor and they are forced to change policies and future plans.


 
   
  I'm guessing they will end the upcoming generation with 30 million sales, at most 40 million. I can't see more then that happening.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> Hopefully their sales are poor and they are forced to change policies and future plans.
> ***I know pipedream, not going to happen.


 
   
  Not if people continue to be in denial by trying to justify their Xbox One purchase. No, I'm not bashing... I don't judge anyone on how they spend _their_ money. But I do shake my head while wondering how people can support this chokehold they are putting on their loyal customers.


----------



## Akin

change is good said:


> Not if people continue to be in denial by trying to justify their Xbox One purchase. No, I'm not bashing... I don't judge anyone on how they spend _their_ money. But I do shake my head while wondering how people can support this chokehold they are putting on their loyal customers.


Though people like us mostly on this forum are aware why the XB One isn't good, most others jump on the hate bandwagon, but buy it eventually anyway. Microsoft is aware of this...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not for or against any video game console makers. I'm about the games. Yeah, what Microsoft is doing just....doesn't make much sense, but if I had the money, I'd probably still buy it for the exclusives. I'd hate all the restricting nonsense they're pulling, but as long as I can play games, I'd live with it.

However, it's just logical to prefer the PS4 with all that has been shown. Less headaches, cheaper (not forcing the Eyetoy thing down our throats), more powerful memory w/similar specs otherwise, and better incentives on PS Plus vs XBL Gold (which is also cheaper). It just makes SENSE to get the PS4 first. Let the early adopters deal with Microsoft's BS until they buck under the pressure and change things around to make it worthwhile.


----------



## Happy Bullets

I just do not want to have to buy a Mixamp One.


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm not for or against any video game console makers. *I'm about the games*. Yeah, what Microsoft is doing just....doesn't make much sense, but if I had the money, I'd probably still buy it for the exclusives. I'd hate all the restricting nonsense they're pulling, but as long as I can play games, *I'd live with it.*
> 
> However, it's just logical to prefer the PS4 with all that has been shown. Less headaches, cheaper (not forcing the Eyetoy thing down our throats), more powerful memory w/similar specs otherwise, and better incentives on PS Plus vs XBL Gold (which is also cheaper). It just makes SENSE to get the PS4 first. Let the early adopters deal with Microsoft's BS until they buck under the pressure and change things around to make it worthwhile.


 
   
  A strong distaste towards these type of actions from companies/governments and it has left a sinking feeling in my stomach. 
   
  I'm with you about the games, and many fall in line with the "I'd live with it" aspect. 
  This isn't pointed at you, but a general observation of why I feel that "living with it" shouldn't be an option that we accept.
   
  We as Americans have come to adopt the attitude of just "living with it" or "It doesn't affect me directly". 
  Slowly we slip into complacency. We end up letter governments have survalence over our phones, our internet, etc. 
  We find out about it, and many of us don't care, or don't think of the future consequences of inaction. 
  Companies have their own methods of taking advantage of our complacency, and we are seeing more and more of it. 
   
  I'm not saying that we all need to start picketing, but we need to be wise in what we choose to support or do nothing about.
  As consumers,* WE* have the greatest power over what a company does, it's our buying power. If we don't buy it, they don't do it. 
  We are sitting in the proverbial pot of water on a stove, and it's starting to heat up. At some point we are going to get cooked if we just sit there -- So jump out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thing is, some of it's online stuff is necessary for the games they are running. Cloud computing. It WILL enhance the games played, and so I'll WANT to be online at all times. Sure, it's bad that they're forcing it (PS4 isn't), but it will make it a better experience. So there are pros to go with those cons.

As for the Kinect being mandatory.... I dunno What they were thinking. I'm glad the PS4 isn't forcing the eyetoy, as I NEVER use those things.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

I've never been an early adopter of game consoles, I think it's unwise. This time I am and have plonked down for a PS4(I got lucky with the price changes). Not because I'm so ******* excited I can't wait, but I want to put my money where my mouth is. I think the restrictions of the Xbone are bad for the hobby. The "cloud" buzzword they're so fond of has so far only amounted to what is basically the dedicated servers and "ghost" states we've had for years. It's basically the same as what Sim City promised and that didn't end well. Not drinking the Kool-Aid yet. The offloading of computing to "the cloud" is potentially exciting, but with todays internet tubes it's fairly limited in scope. The xbox division has a messaging problem and I suspect it's partly because they just don't have a answer for how this benefits the consumer in any way. I'm all for making sacrifices in the name of progress, but so far the only progress is the fattening of the publishers' wallets. What are the pros for everyone else?
   
  I'm not even touching the whole Kinect thing.


----------



## Akin

mad lust envy said:


> Thing is, some of it's online stuff is necessary for the games they are running. Cloud computing. It WILL enhance the games played, and so I'll WANT to be online at all times. Sure, it's bad that they're forcing it (PS4 isn't), but it will make it a better experience. So there are pros to go with those cons.
> 
> As for the Kinect being mandatory.... I dunno What they were thinking. I'm glad the PS4 isn't forcing the eyetoy, as I NEVER use those things.


I can't comprehend the internet obligation. If I take the Xbox to a beach house w/ no internet just to play coop split screen with my friends, why shouldn't I be able to?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Presumably, because the game's AI and internal framework will involve the cloud in a heavy way....


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

Presumably is the keyword. This is nothing new. Similar promises have been made before and it has turned ugly. There's also nothing that points to this being a XO-only capability either.
   
  I would have begrudgingly accepted the new restrictions if it improved things in any way. I have a constant internet connection and I don't trade in my games. The problem is that it gives the consumer less for their investment without remedying it in any way. I don't want to get behind that.
   
  So far all we have gotten out of MS is fancy buzzwords and pie-in-the-sky promises.


----------



## Akin

mad lust envy said:


> Presumably, because the game's AI and internal framework will involve the cloud in a heavy way....


What about the old games though like Black Ops in which there is no internet obligation for the campaign or zombies. Accessing challenges maybe?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. I think they're doing it to MAKE companies take advantage of it in the future.

Just like making Kinect mandatory. With the Eyetoy, it's optional, therefore companies can opt out of having to use it. With the Kinect, it's like they're forcing devs to try and integrate into everything.


----------



## Akin

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno. I think they're doing it to MAKE companies take advantage of it in the future.
> 
> Just like making Kinect mandatory. With the Eyetoy, it's optional, therefore companies can opt out of having to use it. With the Kinect, it's like they're forcing devs to try and integrate into everything.


If companies are going to take advantage of it, why isn't it mandatory for the whole day instead connecting to the internet once every day?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote:


northernavenger said:


> The "cloud" buzzword they're so fond of has so far only amounted to what is basically the dedicated servers and "ghost" states we've had for years. It's basically the same as what Sim City promised and that didn't end well. Not drinking the Kool-Aid yet. The offloading of computing to "the cloud" is potentially exciting, but with todays internet tubes it's fairly limited in scope. The xbox division has a messaging problem and I suspect it's partly because they just don't have a answer for how this benefits the consumer in any way. I'm all for making sacrifices in the name of progress, but so far the only progress is the fattening of the publishers' wallets. What are the pros for everyone else?


 

   
  That summed it up nicely, most notably the point about SimCity. "Cloud" is just another buzzword to try to sell you something we're not ready to fully adopt and integrate. Sure, it sounds great on paper, but integration will be difficult. Developers have a hard enough time giving me a game with more than 8-10 hours of campaign and not destroying their budget (single player focus with tacked on multiplayer). How are they going to work in all these new and worthwhile features when they can't even handle their stuff now? 
   
  On top of all that, what happens when they take the cloud down? Can I not play my game anymore? Can I not get the full experience? Why should I, the consumer, be punished? I just wanted to play my game. Who is going to pay for the server upkeep of this cloud? The publisher? Microsoft? Me?
   
  There are too many unanswered questions at this point. I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So there are pros to go with those cons.


 
   
  Unfortunately, the cons outweigh the pros by far.
   
  I am a gamer because it is a hobbie that has stuck with me since I was a kid... back when I used to _borrow _more games than I owned. Microsoft is obviously aiming its marketing towards the wealthy consumer (which is not necessarily a bad thing).
   
  It's still a slap in the face to the rest of their community


----------



## daleb

How do you think the Xbox One will sell to the casual market? Since that is what they are aiming for... I wonder how well they aimed for them. Excluding price, it seems they did well. Including price, though, oh jeez. Would a casual player even spend that kind of money on a console?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





daleb said:


> How do you think the Xbox One will sell to the casual market? Since that is what they are aiming for... I wonder how well they aimed for them. Excluding price, it seems they did well. Including price, though, oh jeez. Would a casual player even spend that kind of money on a console?


 
   
  Go on Amazon to look at the launch editions of the Xbox One and PS4... and see which is still available for pre-order. That should give you the answer on how they're doing with the casual market.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





daleb said:


> How do you think the Xbox One will sell to the casual market? Since that is what they are aiming for... I wonder how well they aimed for them. Excluding price, it seems they did well. Including price, though, oh jeez. Would a casual player even spend that kind of money on a console?


 
  That was Nintendo's angle ever since the Wii came out, the casual/family oriented gaming market, so they have the stronghold there already.  The WiiU is more competitively priced in that arena, so I don't think it will do so well.  The XboxOne is targeting the entire entertainment system (sans TV and audio configuration of course) and integrating it all with your home network, plus a bunch of mandatory accessories, requirements and restrictions that users (and especially gamers) love!  I am exclusively a PC gamer, originally an old school console gamer so I still have most of those (all pre-seventh gen, but the GF has an XBOX360) and I can tell you if I were to pick a gen 8 console right now it would hands down be the PS4, not even considering exclusives.  Sony has the right strategy, and Nintendo is chugging along as usual.  Those funds are going towards a new vidjacard this Fall, though.


----------



## saintrock

I'm going to purchase the Takstar HI-FI 2050's, because of the sheer amount of people all over these boards reccommending them for budget. They also look a lot like beyerdynamic's.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I'm going to purchase the Takstar HI-FI 2050's, because of the sheer amount of people all over these boards reccommending them for budget. They also look a lot like beyerdynamic's.


 
   
  I almost bought those a while ago because I liked the design and I was curious how they sounded, but I figured I would probably never use them next to my other cans.
   
  They're also some clones of it with a mic, like the Qpad HQ-85.


----------



## pervysage

Looks like Turtle Beach already has a license to release headsets for Xbox One: http://www.xbox.com/en-ca/xbox-one/accessories
   
  Hopefully someone out there will release some kind of adapter... even if it's an unofficial one you have to get off Amazon or Ebay or something.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Go on Amazon to look at the launch editions of the Xbox One and PS4... and see which is still available for pre-order. That should give you the answer on how they're doing with the casual market.


 

 The casual market doesn't pre-order anything, though. The console has to prove itself to them once it gets out on the market. The only problem is I don't think it CAN with its price.
   
  Anyways, a few months back I realized I actually like playing on consoles more then on PCs. I still use my gaming rig a lot, but I've been slowly moving away from it back towards consoles. That is kind of backwards from how you are supposed to do it. I might have to get a mix amp of sorts, then. Hmm.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





saintrock said:


> I'm going to purchase the Takstar HI-FI 2050's, because of the sheer amount of people all over these boards recommending them for budget. They also look a lot like Beyerdynamic's.


 
  I bought the Hi2050 because it looked liked the Beyer DT880, the real DT880 does sound better, but the Hi2050 is still a good value.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Looks like Turtle Beach already has a license to release headsets for Xbox One: http://www.xbox.com/en-ca/xbox-one/accessories
> 
> Hopefully someone out there will release some kind of adapter... even if it's an unofficial one you have to get off Amazon or Ebay or something.


 
   
  At absolute worst case scenario, I would think it would be possible to cut up the official xbox one headset and use it to be able to connect to a mixamp. After all, it is using a single speaker and a single microphone as does the current gen.
   
  -Erik


----------



## daleb

> Quote from Forbes:
> 
> 
> > In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.
> ...


  So... PS4 40% more powerful... Wow...


----------



## Kamakahah

As it currently stands, buying the Xbox One should be a sign that the person is simply choosing to purchase an inferior product or simply lacking logical rational. 

Things could change in the future. 

TV TV TV TV, SPORTS, TV TV TV TV, CALL OF DUTY, TV TV TV. Couldn't help myself.


----------



## daleb

You forgot FISH!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kamakahah said:


> As it currently stands, buying the Xbox One should be a sign that the person is simply choosing to purchase an inferior product or simply lacking logical rational.
> 
> Things could change in the future.
> 
> TV TV TV TV, SPORTS, TV TV TV TV, CALL OF DUTY, TV TV TV. Couldn't help myself.




Not true. I know plenty of people that buy systems specifically for the exclusives, or because it's what all their other friends have. Believe it or not, games like Halo and Gears of War ARE system sellers, and have their large following. 

As for owning what most friends have, this generation might change to Sony, but some cicles may just get the XBone.


----------



## Kamakahah

mad lust envy said:


> Not true. I know plenty of people that buy systems specifically for the exclusives, or because it's what all their other friends have. Believe it or not, games like Halo and Gears of War ARE system sellers, and have their large following.
> 
> As for owning what most friends have, this generation might change to Sony, but some cicles may just get the XBone.




I agree. Many do buy to follow their friends.

 I don't feel like the exclusives on Xbox are good enough to justify the purchase, but some of my friends, including my best friend did for the 360.

Although, I am bias towards PC gaming over both simply for the love of mouse and keyboard. 

Been a longtime BF3 player on PS3 for the friends aspect, but never got around to purchasing it on PC. When I picked it up the other day for $5, I was reminded why I love a mouse and keyboard: it's just that much faster/accurate at destroying faces.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll never be a mouse and keyboard guy. Just not in me. If a PC gamr doesnt have at least legit controller support, I won't play it. BF3 has MINIMAL controller support, and it's an absolute hassle, as certain commands need the keyboard (like QTE which asks for left mouse click, etc).

I don't understand why Bioware didnt have the console UI for Mass Effect 2 and 3 as the alternative. They obviously designed it, but couldn't be arsed to incorporate it into the PC version? What utter nonsense. It's very hard playing those games with a controller emulating a mouse and keyboard.

 With the rise of PC gaming (especially those coming from consoles), companies need to be flexible enough to support controllers by default. At least the 360 controller, which some games support and even change the on screen buttons to 360 buttons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll never be a mouse and keyboard guy. Just not in me. If a PC gamr doesnt have at least legit controller support, I won't play it. BF3 has MINIMAL controller support, and it's an absolute hassle, as certain commands need the keyboard (like QTE which asks for left mouse click, etc).

I don't understand why Bioware didnt have the console UI for Mass Effect 2 and 3 as the alternative. They obviously designed it, but couldn't be arsed to incorporate it into the PC version? What utter nonsense. It's very hard playing those games with a controller emulating a mouse and keyboard.

 With the rise of PC gaming (especially those coming from consoles), companies need to be flexible enough to support controllers by default. At least the 360 controller, which some games support and even change the on screen buttons to 360 buttons.


----------



## chicolom

Exclusives aside, it sounds like the PS4 is going to be the best console system to play multi-platform games on, since it seems to have better hardware in the 8 gigs of GDDR5 vs xbox's DDR3 and more powerful GPU @ ~1.8 tflops vs the xbox's ~1.2.


----------



## daleb

Halo and Sunset Overdrive are the games that look worth it - Halo because of the story, and Sunset Overdrive jut because I don't know what it is and it has tons of really bright colors. The Story I can read about and watch on youtube. Sunset Overdrive - Well, a console isn't worth it for one game. Especially since all these games can run straight off windows 7 XD
   
  Edit: Just wanted to make a small correction, the PS4 uses GDDR5.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll never be a mouse and keyboard guy. Just not in me. If a PC gamr doesnt have at least legit controller support, I won't play it. BF3 has MINIMAL controller support, and it's an absolute hassle, as certain commands need the keyboard (like QTE which asks for left mouse click, etc).
> 
> I don't understand why Bioware didnt have the console UI for Mass Effect 2 and 3 as the alternative. They obviously designed it, but couldn't be arsed to incorporate it into the PC version? What utter nonsense. It's very hard playing those games with a controller emulating a mouse and keyboard.
> 
> With the rise of PC gaming (especially those coming from consoles), companies need to be flexible enough to support controllers by default. At least the 360 controller, which some games support and even change the on screen buttons to 360 buttons.


 
   
  If were talking FPS gaming, you are putting yourself at a serious disadvantage using a controller for PC gaming lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've heard otherwise. Maybe in tournament level gaming, but for normal use, I'm sure I'd be fine. It's more than twitch shooting. Getting the jump on people takes priority. My aiming is good enough. We'll see what the future holds, but I could care less about K&M and will never, ever go that route.


----------



## daleb

Why? What do you dislike about it? My problem with computer gaming is that you can't relax. I don't play anything competitive at all, so the K+M set up makes me feel like I'm trying to play it in that manner, instead of the sit back, play slowly, and think about what the game means. This shouldn't be your problem with it since you love FPS games, though, so I'd like to know what you dislike about it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> If were talking FPS gaming, you are putting yourself at a serious *comfort *disadvantage using a controller for PC gaming lol.


 
   




   
  I'm with MLE.  I don't enjoy gaming with a keyboard and mouse, and I'll take a gamepad over it any day.   I don't deny that keyboard and mouse has an advantage, but at least on consoles it's an even playing field.
   
  The gamepad is MUCH more comfortable for me and I can lean back and get immersed in the game.  Using a keyboard and mouse you have to sit forward more and always keep your hands in the same spot - like your hands are shackled to the desk.  There's more hardware involved, it's a less transparent experience, and it takes me out of the game._  IMO_.
   
  Plus after a little while I feel like this guy:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That, and I never learned to type properly. Im a 'pecker', albeit a very fast one. Because I never have my hands in the asdf hjkl default position and have to at least GLANCE at the keyboard (I know where everything is but have to see the keyboard so I don't peck wildly), I could never be a proper k&m gamer who can hit keys without glancing. My way of typing has been basically perfected, but it isn't normal, lol. Either way, having my left hand on the wasd for movement is Sooooo weird and awful. 

Also, the easy one being that I like to relax when gaming, and keyboards don't allow that.

Those are just a few reasons. Playing without a controller feels unnatural, which is why I'll never be for touch screen, waggle, or kinect type gaming.


----------



## daleb

Oh, so it is mostly the same reason.
   
  Hey, have you guys noticed that the xbox one is above the ps4 right now? How?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to remember, the XBone has had a much longer pre-order window...


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

The PS4 preorders are also split into multiple bundles. The poll Amazon put up(which they pulled before the end date, probably because it made a certain box look bad) had a 40k vs 2k vote in favour of the PS4.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Hey, have you guys noticed that the xbox one is above the ps4 right now? How?


 
   
  The Xbox one only has ONE SKU, so all the sales got to that single item, meanwhile the PS4 spreads pre-orders across SIX different SKUs.  That's why the lone xbox pre-order SKU shows up higher.  But if you added up all the pre-orders for ALL SIX of the PS4 SKUs....
   
   
  Edit: Also what he said ^


----------



## daleb

Sadly, we have no way of knowing the distance in sales... I just don't like the fact that it is anywhere in the top 5, much less higher then any of the PS4 SKUs...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That, and I never learned to type properly. Im a 'pecker', albeit a very fast one. Because I never have my hands in the asdf hjkl default position and have to at least GLANCE at the keyboard (I know where everything is but have to see the keyboard so I don't peck wildly), I could never be a proper k&m gamer who can hit keys without glancing. My way of typing has been basically perfected, but it isn't normal, lol. Either way, having my left hand on the wasd for movement is Sooooo weird and awful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I still remember those painful childhood days of hunt-and-pecking...then I learned to touch-type at 60-100 WPM. It's a lovely, liberating feeling for sure, to the point where I find trying to type forum posts on a touchscreen-only smartphone to be a total pain and just wait 'til I'm back on my desktop to hammer away on my IBM Model M. (Only that buckling-spring feel truly satisfies me...)
   
  I find KB+M relaxing enough to use, but it could just be that I'm used to PC gaming my whole life, back when you still had to worry about things like DOS memory management and setting up your sound card address/IRQ/DMA for every single game. (You have no idea how much simpler PC gaming is today...) For me, sitting at a computer desk in a comfortable chair IS relaxation...
   
  Still, I find that part of the appeal of PC gaming for me is that I can play with whatever input method I want. KB+M, gamepad, HOTAS + rudder pedals, head-tracking (TrackIR, Oculus Rift), handheld motion sensors like the Wiimote, PS Move, Razer Hydra, arcade sticks, racing wheels, Steel Battalion controllers, etc., all in any combination I desire. It sometimes takes a bit of work to set up just right, but it's a possibility.
   
  Meanwhile, consoles generally FORCE me to use a gamepad, even if I don't want to (read: FPSs and TPSs). Modern ones have USB ports, and yet game developers make less use of them than the Dreamcast did with its proprietary keyboard and mouse...I can probably count the number of PS3 shooters that support USB keyboards and mice on one hand. (UT3, DUST 514...that's all I can think of.)
   
  Speaking of "natural controls", I think part of it is that what feels natural is noticeably different for a lot of us. For me, I want the controls to impede my intended actions the least; in the case of shooters, that means forgoing clunky twiddlystick aim in favor of a good mouse. Yet I wouldn't dare play certain 2D shooters with a mouse for aiming, because the analog stick actually works BETTER; Cortex Command and Cargo Commander should give you a loose idea of what I mean. Nor would I want to take a crack at a hardcore flight sim with just a gamepad, or heavens forbid, only KB+M...not enough precision for flying on the edge of a stall/spin/other nasty aerodynamic state.


----------



## daleb

I'm not saying I won't continue to play games through PC, I still like the experience, its just I'm lowly transitioning back into the console realm (which I haven't touched in at least a year).
   
   
  Quote: 





> in the case of shooters, that means forgoing clunky twiddlystick aim in favor of a good mouse.


 
  Is it just me, or or mouses really hard to use? Because of their design, you end up putting tons of pressure down on them, giving you an insanely small movement area, and making it just inaccurate to use (mouse acceleration off or on). I can never figure out how people use mouses without crushing it against the table while holding it XD
   
   
  Speaking of the Oculus Rift, I'm having a hard time deciding between that and a PS4... Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Kamakahah

No matter how good I become at console FPS, no matter how dominant and comfortable I become with the controller, the moment I touch the mouse and keyboard, there is no comparison which is better. Mouse and keyboard.
   
  I'll give comfort to the controller, but only because many people don't buy proper computer chairs/keyboards/mouse/mouse pads, and foot stools to have the proper ergonomics. For those of us that do, there isn't much difference (if any at all) in comfort.
   
  As far as precision, speed, accuracy, and reflex go, the keyboard and mouse clearly dominate.
  If there was test between regular gamers, (not pro, but that's too easy), cross platform, I would bet my money on the keyboard/mouse gamers all day long. There simply isn't a comparison.
   
  Sure there is strategy involved, but that is an impossible variable to measure and everyone is different. 
  Assuming you have two people of equal skill, response time is all that will matter between them. 
  Even Xbox realizes that. So much so that they made it a point of the new controller to increase response time "by at least 20%". 
   
  On a side note, some console FPS gamers don't realize that they have auto-assist helping their aim. There are many aware gamers that know about it, and some that choose to turn it off. Forcing those console gamers to play without it would further increase the gap.
   
  I say stick to what you enjoy the most, but know that at least for now there really is a stark difference between their capabilities.


----------



## Kamakahah

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Speaking of the Oculus Rift, I'm having a hard time deciding between that and a PS4... Decisions, decisions...


 
   
  After you get the Oculus Rift, you might be tempted into one of these:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game
   
  There goes $800 between the two. I'm going to wait another 5 years until the tech is really up to par, but it's definitely exciting.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

Already plonked down for a Omni. I think I had a stroke and hit the pledge button or something. Just need to wait for the best version of the Rift now. Really want one now, but waiting for the consumer version would be more wise.


----------



## Fraguh

What was the exact order you hooked the HE-400s to the mixamp and the E17?
   
  Computer(Motherboard/Soundcard?) --> E17 --> DAC(?) --> Mixamp --> HE-400s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Assuming your computer has an optical out with the ability to output 5.1 dolby digital:

Computer -> Mixamp - headphone out -> E17's aux/line in -> E17 -> HE-400

Aka

Computer -> Mixamp - E17 - HE-400

You CANNOT use the E17 as the dac, as that will downmix everything after into 2 channel, rendering the Mixamp useless.

The Mixamp is better for console than for computers, where you can just get something like the Xonar U3, which is a USB device and will always have Dolby 5.1 support..


----------



## kenshinhimura

fraguh said:


> What was the exact order you hooked the HE-400s to the mixamp and the E17?
> 
> Computer(Motherboard/Soundcard?) --> E17 --> DAC(?) --> Mixamp --> HE-400s




read first page of guide. its shown there after the headphone reviews.


----------



## briansun1

What would you suggest for fun and gaming in the $0-100 price range?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative Aurvana Live. Listened to it recently, and I still love it's sound.

The SLYR is also a good choice. More comfortable, headset, and a more appreciable sound signature. The CAL is more refined, but it's quite warm sounding and more laid back.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *daleb* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Is it just me, or or mouses really hard to use? Because of their design, you end up putting tons of pressure down on them, giving you an insanely small movement area, and making it just inaccurate to use (mouse acceleration off or on). I can never figure out how people use mouses without crushing it against the table while holding it XD


 
   
  I think you're doing something wrong. There shouldn't be any pressure, you should be gliding across a mouse mat. You can also modify sensitivity and mouse pad size/mouse area to adjust your movement range. Calling it inaccurate is just silly. Even the most basic mouse is accurate enough for most casual shooters. 
   


> Spoiler: Originally%20Posted%20by%20Kamakahah%20
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Well said.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> After you get the Oculus Rift, you might be tempted into one of these:
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1944625487/omni-move-naturally-in-your-favorite-game
> 
> There goes $800 between the two. I'm going to wait another 5 years until the tech is really up to par, but it's definitely exciting.


 

 ...Why do you tempt me with such things! WHY DO YOU DO THESE THINGS TO ME!
   
  ...I might have to get in shape for this XD


----------



## SDub

@Mad Lust
   
  I have somewhat of an odd situation. I own the PC360's and an Audio Technica AT2020 USB condenser microphone. The AT2020 has much better audio quality than the mic on the PC360s. Should I trade out the PC360s for headphones with better spatial awareness or just flip the mic stand up and forget about it?


----------



## burritoboy9984

sdub said:


> @Mad Lust
> 
> I have somewhat of an odd situation. I own the PC360's and an Audio Technica AT2020 USB condenser microphone. The AT2020 has much better audio quality than the mic on the PC360s. Should I trade out the PC360s for headphones with better spatial awareness or just flip the mic stand up and forget about it?




FYI, I used the pc360's for a long while with the mixamp and people never had issues hearing me.

Also,the 360's are close to the top for positioning.

-Erik


----------



## SDub

Oh, the mic of course is great, my condenser is just better  If I were to grab one, it would be the K701, K702, or Q701 listed on here. I wonder if these specifications change at all for PC gaming. 
   
  Also: It seems that good spatial awareness is concurrent with open-backed headphones. Are there any closed back ones that are good? I think I would prefer closed back for the immersive effect.


----------



## Kamakahah

daleb said:


> ...Why do you tempt me with such things! WHY DO YOU DO THESE THINGS TO ME!
> 
> ...I might have to get in shape for this XD




That's one of the benefits, it will help you get in shape a little bit. More than sitting on the couch anyway.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> There's a lot of fanboys out there and the 14-19 year old boys can have a pretty loud voice on the interwebs. The same thing happens after every E3 and especially after ones involved console launches. I'd like to think I don't have brand loyalty anywhere and pick what I think is going to be best...
> 
> Am I bothered about all the (Xbox One) policies and DRM? Of course, but I don't see them as something that will take away from my experience. *I also know MS is listening and wouldn't be surprised if** some of those policies changed.* Anyway, let's check back a year from now at E3 2014 and see where things stand.


 
   
  http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies
   
  That was quicker than I anticipated, but still expected.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Is it just me, or or mouses really hard to use? Because of their design, you end up putting tons of pressure down on them, giving you an insanely small movement area, and making it just inaccurate to use (mouse acceleration off or on). I can never figure out how people use mouses without crushing it against the table while holding it XD


 
   
  You don't press DOWN on the mouse; I don't think anybody actually does that.
   
  You just rest your hand on the mouse and slide it around on the surface, no downward pressure necessary because the weight of the mouse is sufficient. If anything, my technique is generally resting my lower palm on the mousing surface and sort of moving the mouse around that with my fingertips and upper palm. (Note that there are a number of ways to grip a mouse, and some mice are designed with a particular grip style in mind; go look up "palm grip", "claw grip" and "fingertip grip".)
   
  It's sort of like lapping a CPU heatspreader...which you've probably never done if you're not into PC overclocking, but you also don't press the CPU down on the sandpaper while doing it. You just slide it around on top, letting the weight do its work.


----------



## Kamakahah

roguegeek said:


> http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/19/microsoft-reversing-xbox-one-internet-used-game-policies
> 
> That was quicker than I anticipated, but still expected.




the only thing that they listen to the sound of their sales tanking. 

I wouldn't fall into the trap. Once you buy it, they'll just as easily reverse policies under new names. 

Watching them backtrack proves exactly what I posted before: We as consumers decide with our wallets. 

Keep showing them that we won't put up with this trash with your choice to not purchase inferior products.


----------



## roguegeek

*sigh* So I checked out the SR325is on some gaming this weekend. Obviously, it was just horrendous for immersive gaming. For competitive, it was ok. Positions seemed ok, but the soundstage isn't as great as a K702 and, therefore, position depth seems to lack big time. Oh well. I still really like them for general music, though.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> the only thing that they listen to the sound of their sales tanking.
> 
> I wouldn't fall into the trap. Once you buy it, they'll just as easily reverse policies under new names.
> 
> ...


 
   
   

   
  But seriously, people complain about stuff no matter what. I'm happy Microsoft actually listened and changed their policies and this puts them back in contention with PS3 considering the huge fan base that Xbox Live alone has. People love and are used to the Xbox Live service, so they are most likely to return to the Xbox rather than jump ship now.
   
  Smart on Microsoft's part as there are tons of people out there who were tempted to hit the pre-order button but didn't want to because of the always online/DRM policies.


----------



## daleb

Well that's what I do, I just try to gently rest my hand down on the mouse in a palm grip format. My hand weighs too much I guess, because I have to put a ton of force in any direction to get it to move XD
  It severely restricts movement that way for me. I can only move maybe an inch or two in any direction. and its not precise because of that etc. etc.
   
  Trying to not put any pressure on the mouse makes you have to hold you hand up and you get tired really quickly.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Well that's what I do, I just try to gently rest my hand down on the mouse in a palm grip format. My hand weighs too much I guess, because I have to put a ton of force in any direction to get it to move XD
> It severely restricts movement that way for me. I can only move maybe an inch or two in any direction. and its not precise because of that etc. etc.
> 
> Trying to not put any pressure on the mouse makes you have to hold you hand up and you get tired really quickly.


 
  You shouldn't have to pull a lot of pressure to get that mouse to move, even with an ogre hand. It should literally glide with extremely little pressure. Look at the surface your mouse is on. There are a lot of surfaces that will help with this. I'm currently using a SteelSeries 9HD. Also, make sure your mouse contacts are clean.


----------



## daleb

$40 on a mouse pad? I don't even like to use mouse pads, they break really easily...
   
  Okay, fine, I can't resist rolling them up like tacos when I'm not using them, BUT THEY SHOULD WORK AFTER THAT!


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





murder mike said:


> I think you're doing something wrong. There shouldn't be any pressure, you should be gliding across a mouse mat. You can also modify sensitivity and mouse pad size/mouse area to adjust your movement range. Calling it inaccurate is just silly. Even the most basic mouse is accurate enough for most casual shooters.
> 
> 
> Well said.


 
   
  While "gaming keyboards" aren't very important or necessary to have, I believe all gamers on the PC need a decent mouse that is made for gaming purposes. After using my gaming mouse for months, I went back to my standard HP mouse just to see the difference, and the HP felt like absolute crap.
   
  Gaming keyboards might be a fad, but gaming mice certainly aren't.
   
  As for having to apply a lot of pressure, maybe you just have a super heavy mouse? What are you using?
   
  I suggest something like the G9X from Logitech. The thing basically allows to adjust the weight to your liking.


----------



## daleb

I don't like extra buttons on my mice. If there's a gaming mouse that's just a really high quality left click, right click, mouse wheel deal, that would be awesome.
   
  I normally just use whatever <$2 mouse I can find. I once got a $10 mouse, but there wasn't a difference there.
   
  Also, I find keyboards to be incredibly useful. Its not that you want a "gaming" keyboard, its that you want a mechanical keyboard that makes typing so much better. Maybe it wouldn't help in gaming, though.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





daleb said:


> $40 on a mouse pad? I don't even like to use mouse pads, they break really easily...
> 
> Okay, fine, I can't resist rolling them up like tacos when I'm not using them, BUT THEY SHOULD WORK AFTER THAT!


 
   
  Most "gaming" mouse pads only cost $20. It shouldn't be anywhere near $40 unless you're talking about the Icemat/Steelseries Experience I-2, which is made of *solid glass.*
   
  It's really easy to clean because of that, but I'd take care not to drop it; there's a reason it's shipped in form-fitting styrofoam.
   
  Then again, I don't realistically see most people spending $40 on a mouse pad of all things...


----------



## roguegeek

Oh jeez. I sure didn't spend that much. Just pointing out what I'm using.


----------



## Kamakahah

pervysage said:


> While "gaming keyboards" aren't very important or necessary to have, I believe all gamers on the PC need a decent mouse that is made for gaming purposes. After using my gaming mouse for months, I went back to my standard HP mouse just to see the difference, and the HP felt like absolute crap.
> 
> Gaming keyboards might be a fad, but gaming mice certainly aren't.
> 
> ...




Gaming keyboards are quite important. Ghosting can be an issue. The ability of a gaming keyboard to accept multiple key presses at the same time and transmit that data matters quite a bit. 

It's night and day when you A/B them. Also a good mechanical gaming keyboard allows you choose the keys resistance which drastically increases your response time and wpm. 

It's like to high end headphone, until you've had time to sit down with a proper setup, you can't really know what you're missing.


----------



## daleb

So then, would someone like to suggest a good sub $20 mouse pad and sub $20 mouse for precision without the extra buttons?


----------



## Kamakahah

daleb said:


> So then, would someone like to suggest a good sub $20 mouse pad and sub $20 mouse for precision without the extra buttons?




SteelSeries mouse pads. The Qck model is $12.21 on amazon.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> Gaming keyboards are quite important. Ghosting can be an issue. The ability of a gaming keyboard to accept multiple key presses at the same time and transmit that data matters quite a bit.
> 
> It's night and day when you A/B them. Also a good mechanical gaming keyboard allows you choose the keys resistance which drastically increases your response time and wpm.
> 
> It's like to high end headphone, until you've had time to sit down with a proper setup, you can't really know what you're missing.


 
   
  True, true. I actually do have a mechanical gaming keyboard myself, heh. Just don't think it's as much as an improvement as you can get with a decent gaming mouse over a standard one.
   
  Mechanical keys are still amazing though... I love typing on them.


----------



## AxelCloris

In regards to the entire Xbox announcement today, I have to say that while many people are out there cheering, I feel betrayed by the company. Sure, people can now sell their games back to a company that I choose not to support (not going into my big old rant). But in doing so, they've killed one of the best offers I've seen in ages in the gaming community. They've killed the family sharing feature. And by family, that meant "any 10 people you so choose," an Xbox family if you will. And before people try to counter with it, I'm aware of the two active game limit. Still an incredibly bold feature that is currently dead in the water.
   
  They've also ended up killing the requirement of not needing a disc in the tray to play games. Part of the idea of the Kinect being always-on was that you could come in, sit on the couch, talk to the Xbox, and be in your game or consuming your media without setting foot near the console itself. I don't want to have to get up, walk over, and pop in a new disc. I want to be able to jump between games at will as I can with PC. And, a minor annoyance, disc based DRM means the disc must be in the tray and spinning. Which produces unnecessary noise from the console itself. I want silence from my system.
   
  Then there's the whole aspect that this could have ended up being a big push for consumer rights when it comes to owning media. We've been moving forward over the past few years with systems like Ultraviolet video and the like, allowing users to rip their content to supported devices. In the past, that was 100% illegal to do with a copyrighted product no matter how you rationalized it. Now I can load videos to my phone, tablet or laptop without a worry. Steam does something similar; you own the game and can play it on any system by downloading it to that machine. I want to see that in the console market. No need to take a disc to a friend's place and yet we can still sit down and play a game I own together.
   
  I was really looking forward to seeing this develop more. I figured Microsoft would tweak the policy before launch. Let's be honest, they did a terrible job in how they announced everything. I hardly heard them mention the family feature at all during E3, and don't remember it at all during their keynote (though I could just be blanking on that portion). But I was hoping they would still find a way to keep these amazing features as part of the console. Instead, they decided to renege on what they've said and just do an about face on the whole subject. Of course all of this can, and probably will slightly, change again before launch.
   
  Anyways, that's my view on the whole announcement today. Sorry for smacking people in the face with my wall of text. I'm not normally one for this many words on an internet forum. I've slipped back into my old video game journalist habits.
   
  tl;dr - Brian is sad and wishes Microsoft had bigger testicles.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





kamakahah said:


> SteelSeries mouse pads. The Qck model is $12.21 on amazon.


 
  Yes, I actually found that, but its made of cloth... Doesn't the covering cloth on the top start falling off when you roll it up to put it away? A few screenshots I saw seemed to show it peeling.
   
  Also, what about a mouse? Do they even make mice that don't have extra buttons for gamers?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Yes, I actually found that, but its made of cloth... Doesn't the covering cloth on the top start falling off when you roll it up to put it away? A few screenshots I saw seemed to show it peeling.
> 
> Also, what about a mouse? Do they even make mice that don't have extra buttons for gamers?


 
   
  I use this mouse pad. I purchased it around $15 on sale at Microcenter. I like the curve of it, makes it really easy to roll side to side.


----------



## daleb

Whoa. That pad looks awesome.
  
  Edit: How about this for a mouse?


----------



## Kamakahah

daleb said:


> Yes, I actually found that, but its made of cloth... Doesn't the covering cloth on the top start falling off when you roll it up to put it away? A few screenshots I saw seemed to show it peeling.
> 
> Also, what about a mouse? Do they even make mice that don't have extra buttons for gamers?




I've had mine for a year of rough and constant abuse. No pealing here, just the black fading in color from me rubbing it. It's nice and soft on the wrist.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> While "gaming keyboards" aren't very important or necessary to have, I believe all gamers on the PC need a decent mouse that is made for gaming purposes. After using my gaming mouse for months, I went back to my standard HP mouse just to see the difference, and the HP felt like absolute crap.


 
   
  Well, they really just need a mouse with an accurate sensor, which happen to be labeled as "gaming" mice. Most of the newer mice with perfectly accurate sensors (no accel, no prediction, good LOD and tracking) are below.
   
  Logitech G400
 Logitech G400S
 Razer Deathadder 2013
 WMO (Wheel mouse optical)
 Zowie EC1
 Zowie EC2
 Zowie FK
 Zowie AM
 Roccat Savu
 Razer Abyssus
 CM Storm Spawn
   
  My point is, for basic casual gaming, your average Joe won't know, nor will he care. If he happens to use a better mouse and gets used to it, and then uses something inferior, he probably will.


----------



## daleb

So I can use any of these as high DPI mice that are accurate?


----------



## saintrock

I love my Razer Naga, 60$ and I get 17 extra programmable buttons, and they're to my thumb!


----------



## kenshinhimura

roguegeek said:


> *sigh* So I checked out the SR325is on some gaming this weekend. Obviously, it was just horrendous for immersive gaming. For competitive, it was ok. Positions seemed ok, but the soundstage isn't as great as a K702 and, therefore, position depth seems to lack big time. Oh well. I still really like them for general music, though.




that's what I figured would happen.


----------



## roguegeek

Ooo. Gaming keyboard talk. Forgive me for adding to the OT discussion, but...

Gaming keyboards are a lot like headphones in that you need to make sure you're using the right one for the right job. For FPS competitive gaming, you want...

 Fully mechanical keys using Cherry MX Red switches (not brown, blue, or even black) for the absolute fastest response
 Tenkeyless so your hands are closer together
 PS/2 support with full N-key Rollover functionality so you can actually engage all of the keys you want to hit

...and that's it. Illumination, game mode, and other bells and whistles are just worthless gimmicks.

The Leopold Tenkeyless Linear Touch Keyboard meets every one of those requirements and is, quite simply, the best keyboard for FPS competitive gaming. The stuff from Razer and Logitech and (insert any "gaming" company here), it's just inferior product when compared to solid keyboards from brands like Leopold and Filco who just do things right without the bling. If I want flair, I'll throw some buttons on my sash.


----------



## daleb

I don't know if I'd call that off topic. Its still about games and that's why we all post in this thread; we love them 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  So I looked through all of those and there were only 2 that I liked the Abyssus and Microsoft's WMO. Is it really worth getting a 3500 DPI mouse over a 1600 DPI one?
   
  Though really, ergonomics are more important than DPI, I think... And then I really don't know what I need in a mouse.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Backlit keyboards are awesome. Just saying.


----------



## Change is Good

_Really _loving the X1 and MD.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Looking forward to your review of the X1!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That review is gonna take some time, at least the competitive portion of it. Fun so far is a 9-9.25 for sure. Comfort is a 9.5. Haven't gamed on consoles lately, and so I can't vouch for it's competitive use just yet.


----------



## daleb

Wow! I never realized how horrible mouse acceleration is for accuracy. For some reason, you really need it to use the touch-pad mouse on the laptop, but it destroys the use of an actual mouse.
   
  Edit: Hmm... If I mess around with the speeds and other options I can make both ways very good outside of games.


----------



## AfterShock

How are the A900X?
   
  What's their sound signature?
  What types of music are they best for?
  How are their positional accuracy+soundstage?
  Do they need amping?
  How is the build quality?


----------



## roguegeek

daleb said:


> Wow! I never realized how horrible mouse acceleration is for accuracy. For some reason, you really need it to use the touch-pad mouse on the laptop, but it destroys the use of an actual mouse.
> 
> Edit: Hmm... If I mess around with the speeds and other options I can make both ways very good outside of games.



Oh absolutely. Mouse accelleration needs to be disabled completely if you want any type of accuracy to your aim. How else are you suppose to headshot a contact 300m out with your M98B with 8x scope while being engaged by targets from another direction who are suppressing you?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> Ooo. Gaming keyboard talk. Forgive me for adding to the OT discussion, but...
> 
> Gaming keyboards are a lot like headphones in that you need to make sure you're using the right one for the right job. For FPS competitive gaming, you want...
> Fully mechanical keys using Cherry MX Red switches (not brown, blue, or even black) for the absolute fastest response
> ...


 
   
  Personally, I don't believe in the "linear keys for gaming" rhetoric. Absolutely hate 'em, in fact. I'd rather game on IBM buckling springs or Cherry MX Clears since the tactile feedback makes it clear to me which state the key's in.
   
  It's sort of like preferring different sound signatures out of audio equipment.
   
  As for a tenkeyless board...well, just make sure you have a standalone numpad somewhere if you need it. Even for FPS gaming, there are titles like the Starsiege: Tribes series that use the numpad for quick loadout selection, among other things. (And don't even get me started on hardcore flight sims and their tendency to use the entire keyboard three or four times over...though in those cases, you'll probably have custom cockpit panels.)
   
  Oh, and I definitely wouldn't buy a modern motherboard without a PS/2 port for the keyboard, for the exact reason you stated. USB's generally limited to 6KRO + modifiers (like this DSI Modular Mac tenkeyless board I have lying around, awaiting more durable custom keycaps and an MX Clear switch swap one day), and the full NKRO boards are rather...quirky.


----------



## roguegeek

I think tactile feedback actually makes a lot of sense in certain situations. My issue is when you're gaming for several hours and hitting the keys as long and quick as you have been in that time, the feedback and the pressure does fatigue your fingers. Take away the feedback and loosen up the pressure as much as you can (Cherry MX Red) and you got yourself hands that stay sharper for longer. It's a strange feel to get use to, no doubt. But after you become acclimated to it, I think the advantages become quite apparent. At least, they do for me.

But you're right. It's subjective. Different fingers, different keys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MLE's Keyboard Gaming Thread (6/20/2013: Added Keyboard X)


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> I think tactile feedback actually makes a lot of sense in cetain situations. My issue is when you're gaming for several hours and hitting the keys as long and quick as you have been in that time, the feedback and the pressure does fatigue your fingers. Take away the feedback and loosen up the pressure as much as you can (MX Cherry Red) and you got yourself hands that stay sharper for longer. It's a strange feel to get use to, no doubt. But after you become aclimated to it, I think the advantages become quite apparent. At least, they do for me.
> 
> But you're right. It's subjective. Different fingers, different keys.


 
   
  I'll admit that after hammering down on my IBM Model M 1391401 for a while (which, like all the early IBM-built boards, has noticeably stiffer buckling springs than the current Unicomp-built ones), anything with Cherry MX Blues or Browns feels downright mushy, with the keys being bottomed-out almost instantly. Then I use one of those for a while, go back to the Model M, and remember how stiff it really is.
   
  Then again, I have a habit of striking keyboard keys pretty hard with my fingers no matter what I'm using. It's just the way I type.
   
  While I still wouldn't want 'em on my primary keyboard...it might be considered for a gaming mini-keyboard sort of device, like the various Belkin/Razer N52s, the Logitech G13, the Razer Orbweaver, etc. I've actually seen pics of N52s modded with MX Reds on Geekhack before. (But then such a device would have to fight for desk space, which is at a premium when it's dominated by a full-size keyboard, a decently-sized mousepad, and a CH Products Fighterstick and Pro Throttle already. I'd even throw the 3Dconnexion SpacePilot on top of that list if I actually used it regularly.)


----------



## kenshinhimura

I'm glad I just game on consoles.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've expanded to PC because of my new laptop, but once that gets to the point where I can't run games as good as the PS4 (the PS4 as 2 more gb of DDR5 memory than my lappy), I may go back to just console gaming. I'll have to see how my laptop runs next gen games. I'm sure it will keep up, but not COMPLETELY sure.


----------



## kenshinhimura

I didn't want to deal with the hassle and money of doing all those computer upgrades. Consoles are better for me.


----------



## daleb

The upgrades are the best part! Then again this is coming from someone who is unwilling to throw away old electronics because that would be so horribly mean to my preciouses


----------



## SDub

@NameLessPFG: I can only imagine how much you'd hate using a linear switch considering your keyboard history, haha. 
   
  I LOVE talking about peripherals. Hell, I even made a video about mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKyUNXwOnG0 (sorry for the plug)
   
  For a summary, however, I rock a Filco Majestouch Ninja 2 Tenkeyless Cherry MX Red, a Razer Death Adder (CONSIDER THIS MOUSE!!), a Qpad Heaton, and a Sennheiser PC360. I love large hard mouse pads because all of my sensitivities equate to 22" to perform a 360; I use a very low sensitivity so I need my pads to be large so I can at least 180.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> (the PS4 as 2 more gb of DDR5 memory than my lappy)


 
  In the grand scheme of things, that means absolutely nothing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You sure? That's GRAPHICS memory. I hear that can draw more objects in the screen...


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You sure? That's GRAPHICS memory. I hear that can draw more objects in the screen...


 
  You're limited to 1080P on both. Your processor on your laptop or on the PS4 will not be able to push enough objects through the GPU to put on the screen to take up all of that video memory at that resolution. Basically, you'll be limited by the CPU in both cases before you're limited by the GPU.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think resolution is a bottleneck there, but I'm not knowledgeable on such things. In any case, if I can run the same games on my PC at the same level of quality in 1080p, I'll be happy.


----------



## modulor

I do love my keyboards (brace yourself for some mechanical keyboard science):
   
  At home I primarily use a heavily modded CoolerMaster QFR.  Originally it was the Cherry MX Blue variety (got it on sale for about $50) but I've since swapped the stems with Cherry vintage MX Black from a NOS WYSE board with Krytox lubrication, basically the smoothest switch I've ever used.  I've tried the tactile switches, but I always seem prefer linear.  Rewired a few switches, added some LED indicators.  The case has been refinished and painted, and I've poured resin in the base to improve stability and increase weight to make it more solid, though this is not an issue normally because it is plate mounted and already pretty rigid.  After completing it, I sold my Filco Majestouch 2 off (thought about modding it too, but needed the funds and it wasn't getting any use with the QFR fully modded).  At this point, all it needs is a programmable controller, which is in the works apparently.
   
  I use a Leopold FC200 at work, but I much prefer the costar stabilizers of the QFR over the Leopold's (and other's I've used) Cherry style so I may get another QFR at some point.  Both have Cherry profile PBT keycaps which are an absolute joy to use.  For mices, I use a Death Adder at home and an IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 at work, cloth mousepads all the way.  I've also been following and working with the GH60 keyboard project and was part of prototype testing, just waiting for the final version to ship.  I've had many a keyboards before settling on my current setup such as the KBC Poker, KBT Pure LE, Filco Majestouch 2, a few IBM Model M, Cherry G80-11900, G80-3000, G80-2100 (the battleship), Ducky 9008g2, various WYSE keyboards, and lots of keyboard parts.
   
  Anyway, as a gamer it is ideal to have a TKL sized keyboard (unless you have a game that requires use of the numpad) and mechanical Cherry switches are the way to go, different flavors for everyone's preferences.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys do realize there is a keyboard thread in this section? Just saying, lol.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You guys do realize there is a keyboard thread in this section? Just saying, lol.


 
  Yeah, sorry for thread-crapping 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I'll take my insanity elsewhere lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The past two pages had zero to do with the thread, so I'm like....oooook. XD


----------



## Murder Mike

I'm not the best at explaining this stuff either. There's only a certain amount of textures and objects that you'll be able to push through to display on screen. The limiting factor in this case is not the GPU memory. It will be limited by the CPU and GPU power. 
   
  If you were playing at a higher resolution and you had a more powerful CPU/GPU, you would eventually run into video memory problems depending on the size of the textures. 
   
  I suppose this would be a way to look at it a little easier. Arrows indicate data flow direction. Left side is an abundance of video memory and not enough CPU/GPU power at lower resolutions. Right side is an abundance of CPU/GPU power and not enough video memory at higher resolutions.
   
   
                                        
  \       ^       /                    /   ^    \
   \      |      /                    /     |     \
    \     |     /                    /      |      \
     \    |    /                    /       |       \
   
   
  They might also do some fancy stuff to make use of all that video memory now that they have access to it. I'll admit, I'm not well versed in the architecture and full system specs of the PS4. From speculation alone, your laptop will be outdated before console standardization allows them to perform more efficiently (4-5 years). So by the time Call of Duty Poltergeists 12 comes out, you would probably be looking at upgrading or just sticking to consoles. Again, this is all just speculation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

murder mike said:


> From speculation alone, your laptop will be outdated before console standardization allows them to perform more efficiently (4-5 years). So by the time Call of Duty Poltergeists 12 comes out, you would probably be looking at upgrading or just sticking to consoles. Again, this is all just speculation.




I literally lol'd.

I'm sure the PS4 and Xbone will be optimized to the point where games 3 years (maybe sooner) down the line will look better than my laptop, though considering they are using an X86 architecture, that may mean that PC games will also be optimized in the same way. Of course better gfx cards and whatnot will further drive Pc gaming a league ahead of next gen consoles, but I didn't buy my laptop with Pc gaming as the priority. I'm just happy it can run games as well as it does now. That means I can go BACK the past few years and try some games I skipped on consoles.

I dunno what's in store on the headphone front, but as far as I'm concerened, the X1 is pretty much the culmination of things I wanted since I started this mad hobby, so unless something builds upon what the X1 does, looks like I'll be sticking to this headphone for a long time.


----------



## TMRaven

Pushing as much textures and anti aliasing at once through the resolution is bottlenecked by the memory bandwidth.  The cpus won't be bottlenecking the PS4 anytime soon.  Hell, cpus are becoming less and less utilized with each new game anyways.


----------



## TMRaven

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno what's in store on the headphone front, but as far as I'm concerened, the X1 is pretty much the culmination of things I wanted since I started this mad hobby, so unless something builds upon what the X1 does, looks like I'll be sticking to this headphone for a long time.


 
   
   
  I've heard that from you one too many times.  I'll keep track to see if you actually make it a year with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Perhaps, but this is the first headphone that has the sound signature I was always looking for. Comfortable, velour padded, bassy, open, and sparkly without being overly treble-y like the HE-400 and DT990. Bassy and open are two things headphones just can never get right, in terms of my personal preference. HE-400 came close, but it didn't have the bass emphasis I wanted, which is why I sold the first HE-400 and went back to the 990. Then I missed the HE-400 and bought it again, but then upgraded to the LCD2, which had a very different signature than my ultimate preference (though still one of my very faves). It's basically been since the DT990 that I haven't had that particular tonality that I love (though the 990's treble is too much from what I wanted). The X1 gives me that, with some warmth and less treble. I was sold from the moment I heard them.


----------



## TMRaven

I recall your saying things similar along those lines before for other headphones.  Either way I'll hold you to it!  Anyways.. June 15th, 2014.  I'll keep that date in mind!


----------



## Change is Good

Looks like Microsoft has cracked under pressure and is changing its policies for the Xbox One...
   
http://www.gamespot.com/news/microsoft-changing-xbox-one-policies-6410472?tag=Topslot%3bSlot2


----------



## daleb




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I lol'd. He probably just woke up.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Perhaps, but this is the first headphone that has the sound signature I was always looking for. Comfortable, velour padded, bassy, open, and sparkly without being overly treble-y like the HE-400 and DT990. Bassy and open are two things headphones just can never get right, in terms of my personal preference. HE-400 came close, but it didn't have the bass emphasis I wanted, which is why I sold the first HE-400 and went back to the 990. Then I missed the HE-400 and bought it again, but then upgraded to the LCD2, which had a very different signature than my ultimate preference (though still one of my very faves). It's basically been since the DT990 that I haven't had that particular tonality that I love (though the 990's treble is too much from what I wanted). The X1 gives me that, with some warmth and less treble. I was sold from the moment I heard them.


 
   
  Just picked up the HE-400 from another Head-Fier and it should be here sometime tomorrow. It wasn't something on my roadmap, but I haven't jumped into any orthos yet and figured it could be a bridge to the HE-500. Knowing what I know about your preferences and knowing I tend to light brighter signatures with light bass, I think I actually like what you are saying here about the HE-400. I don't know. We'll see. It's one of those cans I had relatively no interest in until a deal came by that made me sorta interested. I'll never know what I'll like out there if I don't try, right?
   
   
  I can, very objectively, say I can't stand the color blue, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a FANTASTIC headphone. So much, i bought it twice. The treble though... can be jarring.... it's REALLY up there, and doesn't make sense when the HE-400 is a dark sounding headphone. You'll see what I mean. It's a dark headphone, with treble that defines what people would consider a BRIGHT headphone. It's confusing.


----------



## roguegeek

Can't wait. I think it might be one of those quick turnarounds for me, but it's better to know than to not know.. Still really interested in the HE-500 and that will probably be the catalyst to sell them off somewhat quickly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a love/hate headphone. You either love it, or you won't. I did hear the 325is very bright, so you may be ok with the HE-400.


----------



## TMRaven

Sounds like the HE-400 was the last thing you wanted.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Him or me? I loved it. It's close to perfect. If Hifiman made a new headphone with the same tonality of the HE-400 with less treble, it'd be one hell of a winner. First though, they need to do away with their horrible connectors, and have a new design.


----------



## TMRaven

No, him.  He said he liked lighter sounding bass light stuff.  Hifiman's HE-500 is basically LCD2 with more treble and air from what I gather.  Although it's same design as HE-400 and 100g heavier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah true. He's been pro standard K702 over Annies, and the HE-400 is more Annie than K702... the HE-4 would've sounded more his style... though power requirements for that one....


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Him or me? I loved it. It's close to perfect. If Hifiman made a new headphone with the same tonality of the HE-400 with less treble, it'd be one hell of a winner. First though, they need to do away with their horrible connectors, and have a new design.


 
  You really should try the HE-500 some time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 or have you already?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't, but I heard it doesn't have quite the same level of HE-400's bass. I'm kind of done with headphones that aren't near perfection in comfort.


----------



## roguegeek

Yeah? Well I guess we'll find out. As long as the mids aren't recessed, I think I'll not kill myself.


----------



## HalidePisces

mad lust envy said:


> Perhaps, but this is the first headphone that has the sound signature I was always looking for. Comfortable, velour padded, bassy, open, and sparkly without being overly treble-y like the HE-400 and DT990. Bassy and open are two things headphones just can never get right, in terms of my personal preference. HE-400 came close, but it didn't have the bass emphasis I wanted, which is why I sold the first HE-400 and went back to the 990. Then I missed the HE-400 and bought it again, but then upgraded to the LCD2, which had a very different signature than my ultimate preference (though still one of my very faves). It's basically been since the DT990 that I haven't had that particular tonality that I love (though the 990's treble is too much from what I wanted). The X1 gives me that, with some warmth and less treble. I was sold from the moment I heard them.




Maybe give the MA900 a shot? It's got cloth padding... dunno how you feel about that.


----------



## roguegeek

Oh I know I'd like the MA900. I'm just looking to move up now into a bigger budget bracket. The HE-400 is not in that bracket, but it's a stepping stone and I haven't have an ortho yet. The ones I'm eyeballing right now are the HE-500 and HD 700.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'll admit that after hammering down on my IBM Model M 1391401 for a while (which, like all the early IBM-built boards, has noticeably stiffer buckling springs than the current Unicomp-built ones), anything with Cherry MX Blues or Browns feels downright mushy, with the keys being bottomed-out almost instantly. Then I use one of those for a while, go back to the Model M, and remember how stiff it really is.
> 
> Then again, I have a habit of striking keyboard keys pretty hard with my fingers no matter what I'm using. It's just the way I type.
> 
> While I still wouldn't want 'em on my primary keyboard...it might be considered for a gaming mini-keyboard sort of device, like the various Belkin/Razer N52s, the Logitech G13, the Razer Orbweaver, etc. I've actually seen pics of N52s modded with MX Reds on Geekhack before. (But then such a device would have to fight for desk space, which is at a premium when it's dominated by a full-size keyboard, a decently-sized mousepad, and a CH Products Fighterstick and Pro Throttle already. I'd even throw the 3Dconnexion SpacePilot on top of that list if I actually used it regularly.)


 
  I use a Ideazon Fang gaming keypad. This is out of production since Steelseries took over Ideazon years ago.





   
  There is a complete Steelseries keyboard from the Ideazon heritage that still incorporates the lovely WSAD keys like the FANG has, but it is huge:




   
  I actually have a backup unit bought used from Ebay. This combined with my 3 units of Logitech G9x will keep me warm for the next 10 years of FPS! Btw the G9x is perfect for mouse pad less gaming if you want. And if you do not like more buttons, just do not use them.


----------



## daleb

Its not that I won't use the buttons (which I won't), its that they get in the way. They mess up your grip. You constantly feel them and you have to press them because of that messing up the game.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Its not that I won't use the buttons (which I won't), its that they get in the way. They mess up your grip. You constantly feel them and you have to press them because of that messing up the game.


 
  Can you show us on the doll where the (computer) mouse touched you? Nothing you've said regarding mice happens to anyone else lol.


----------



## daleb

Really? You don't spam all the buttons all the time? YOU MUST PRESS ALL THE BUTTONS!
  Extra buttons would really mess me up XD


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> The cpus won't be bottlenecking the PS4 anytime soon.  Hell, cpus are becoming less and less utilized with each new game anyways.


 
   
  Ever played PlanetSide 2, which has incidentally been announced for the PS4?
   
  That game is ridiculously CPU-bottlenecked more than anything, if the in-game FPS counter is any indication. Even people with the latest CPUs, overclocked quite a bit, are having performance issues if the forums are any indication.
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> Its not that I won't use the buttons (which I won't), its that they get in the way. They mess up your grip. You constantly feel them and you have to press them because of that messing up the game.


 
   
  I certainly don't want a mouse with less buttons than my Logitech G500 (and even that's not enough a lot of the time), but I have shied away from those "numpad on side" mice like the Razer Naga for precisely that reason. Having a bunch of buttons is one thing, but they also need to be laid out sensibly to allow a good grip without accidental presses.
   
  I'd put the Cyborg M.M.O. 7 to the test, but I am not paying $100+ for a computer mouse. Not when my two G500s only cost me $35-42 each. (And while I'm not usually one to comment on aesthetics, those Cyborg mice are just...hideous. At least they feel nice to hold.)


----------



## daleb

How about this one?
  
  How do you tell if a mouse works well with the hand? All of these strangely shaped mice make me think they won't work as well with holding it.
   
  Edit: How do the buttons on the side even work? Do you assign them in game or are they premapped?


----------



## SDub

Quote: 





daleb said:


> How about this one?
> 
> How do you tell if a mouse works well with the hand? All of these strangely shaped mice make me think they won't work as well with holding it.


 
  Is your hand large and do you rest your palm on the mouse? If so, buy these: http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Precision-Infrared-Gaming/dp/B004MR3QY4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371757892&sr=8-3&keywords=Death+Adder+3500
   
  You will not regret it. You tell by testing it out. Basically you should try and find reviews for the type of style with which you grip the mouse.


----------



## daleb

Yes, that is the way I hold the mouse. The back half of my palm rests on the mouse. But... That's really expensive o.o
  
  Edit: My friend always recommended Razer to me, but I never bought anything from them! I'll have to think about money for a while.
   
  Edit2: Wait, they make a left handed edition?! Oh, but I switched over to right handed a long time ago..


----------



## Murder Mike

If you want a large mouse for palm gripping, Newegg has the Mionix Naos 3200 on sale for $30 still. It comes with a free basic mouse pad. 
   
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826580003


----------



## pietcux

Please send us a picture of *your* hand holding *your* mouse!!!!!


----------



## daleb

I don't have a camera, but I hold my mouse like this:

   
  I don't believe I have big hands, though, if that's what you want to know.


----------



## roguegeek

MLE, consider your thread... jacked!!! Mwahahaha... (ok, just kidding)


----------



## minion1990

When we are at mice -
  Logitech G400 (my cheap little baby)and
  Razer Deathadder (were a little bit to are the best one for FPS (optical > laser)
  Overclock.net and esreality.com have both huge threads about that


----------



## roguegeek

Alright, now I'm starting to get concerned about the HE-400. I'm someone who likes a pretty flat can that sits somewhere on the bright side. I'm hoping the bass on these things is more extended than emphasized.


----------



## TMRaven

It's definitely more extended than emphasized.  It's just that it's an overly warm headphone.  The upper midrange is recessed to the point of harmonics and 'in-your-face' energy of songs can become subdued, so it's really laid-back sounding.  A lot of people like it of that, some don't like it because they want a more in-your-face headphone.
   
  It's a deliberately colored headphone, if you wanted more neutral you should have gotten HE-500, which is still warm too.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





tmraven said:


> It's definitely more extended than emphasized.  It's just that it's an overly warm headphone.  The upper midrange is recessed to the point of harmonics and 'in-your-face' energy of songs can become subdued, so it's really laid-back sounding.  A lot of people like it of that, some don't like it because they want a more in-your-face headphone.
> 
> It's a deliberately colored headphone, if you wanted more neutral you should have gotten HE-500, which is still warm too.


 
  Ok, this actually jives with my perception of it, so we'll see.


----------



## daleb

I want to hear the D7000s combined with this.
  It fully supports 3D movies and it even gets the lighting of the cinema right. This looks amazing.
  Virtual Surround Sound should also work I believe?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never understood showing people the vids. Only people with the rift can see those vids properly...


----------



## daleb

It gives a very good idea of how it works...
   
  Plus, if you go cross eyed it goes 3D


----------



## DADDYDC650

Is the ATH-AD900X the best headphones available for gaming/first person shooters? I'm thinking about buying a pair.


----------



## roguegeek

Quote: 





daddydc650 said:


> Is the ATH-AD900X the best headphones available for gaming/first person shooters? I'm thinking about buying a pair.


 
  "Best" is subjective. How much are you wanting to spend and are you sure you want am emphasis on competitive FPS gaming?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote: 





roguegeek said:


> "Best" is subjective. How much are you wanting to spend and are you sure you want am emphasis on competitive FPS gaming?


 
  I'm trying to find headphones that have a big soundstage just like the AD700's as well as the best directional accuracy. I would also love for them to be able to produce deep and accurate bass. $700 is my budget.


----------



## chicolom

AD700 has sharper imaging then AD900, and probably the AD900x too.  You won't find deep bass an any Audio Techinica ''Air" headphones.

The X1s do a good job of deep bass + soundstage and imaging. You may also want to look at the T1 which has nice bass and a big soundstage.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> AD700 has sharper imaging then AD900, and probably the AD900x too.  You won't find deep bass an any Audio Techinica ''Air" headphones.
> 
> The X1s do a good job of deep bass + soundstage and imaging. You may also want to look at the T1 which has nice bass and a big soundstage.


 
  Thanks for the input. Would you say that the AD700x is even better for gaming than the AD700?


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> Thanks for the input. Would you say that the AD700x is even better for gaming than the AD700?


 I haven't heard the AD700x, and there aren't that many impressions floating around so l can't say. I would search in the dedicated thread about them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're looking looking at deep bass, the Audio Technica AD line is the last thing you should be looking into. No, seriously.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> If you're looking looking at deep bass, the Audio Technica AD line is the last thing you should be looking into. No, seriously.


What about the DT 990?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990 is bassy, but most of its bass is mid bass, not deep bass. As far as open cans with deep bass goes, the HE400 and LCD2 hit the deepest. The X1 is very good on deep bass, but bigger on mid bass. If I had to choose on bassiness, definitely the X1 has more of what I look for in terms of emphasis and presence.

You can't expect a lot of deep bass from open cans, and they are few and far between. Don't expect it for cheap, either.

My recommendation for you for gaming of all types is the Philips X1. For more balance, yet still very good bass, the K702 65th Anniversary.

*
In other news:

Dealzon has a lot of sales for PC games. I just got the last DMC (Devil may Cry) for $24. It's the lowest it's been ever, and I didn't wanna wait any longer for it to go down. I knew it'll probably go down like another $10 in a few months, but I can't wait that long. Been waiting to play that game for like ever.*


----------



## pervysage

Man... I think the X1's have spoiled me when it comes to the "fun" factor.
   
  I've been switching back and forth with the Annies, and it's hard to get used to the Annies sound signature again. For genres like hip hop, techno and trance and some rock, I'm finding the X1's to be much more enjoyable at the moment. And they are super easy to drive as well. TV shows and movies are a blast as well.
   
  The X1's also beat out the Annies when it comes to comfort in my opinion. The cushion that rests on top of your head on the X1's is nice and wide, and the clamping is nice and secure. I can instantly put them on and start listening.
   
  Not to say that the Annies don't sit securely on my head, but they feel looser and I find I always have to fiddle around with them to get them in the perfect position on my head. Not to mention that the sound of the Annies changes drastically as you move them around on your ears. And the part of the headband that sits on your head is really thin leather with no cushioning and I sometimes have to readjust it because I can feel it digging into my scalp.


----------



## chicolom

I've been out of town for the past week and half. 
   
  I can't wait to get home to my babies...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The 990 is bassy, but most of its bass is mid bass, not deep bass. As far as open cans with deep bass goes, the HE400 and LCD2 hit the deepest. The X1 is very good on deep bass, but bigger on mid bass. If I had to choose on bassiness, definitely the X1 has more of what I look for in terms of emphasis and presence.
> 
> You can't expect a lot of deep bass from open cans, and they are few and far between. Don't expect it for cheap, either.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your awesome input! Greatly appreciated! Now, to choose between the X1, HE-400, HE-500 or K702 anniversary. How do they perform in fps compared to the AD700? If I choose the X1 or the HE-400/500, would I be at any disadvantage vs the AD700 in fps? Should I bother buying the HE-500 over the HE-400? BTW, I'll be using a Creative ZXR to drive whichever headphone I choose.


----------



## daleb

The X1 is pretty easy to drive I hear. You might be at the slightest of disadvantages with the X1, but the immersion is amazing.
   
  Hey, does anyone know if there's a way to make VR Cinema 3D not go into the dual screen mode? I'd love to use it for normal 2d non-rift watching. Or maybe there's a program like it not meant for the rift, just for normal watching?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Daddy, you basically want everything. Have you read my guide? There are tradeoffs. I have wrote about what does fun and competetive well. Nothing compares to the AD700. The closest ones will be the K702 Anniversary if you want fun and competitive, and the X1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Daddy, you basically want everything. Have you read my guide? There are tradeoffs. I have wrote about what does fun and competetive well. Nothing compares to the AD700. The closest ones will be the K702 Anniversary if you want fun and competitive, and the X1.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





daddydc650 said:


> Thank you for your awesome input! Greatly appreciated! Now, to choose between the X1, HE-400, HE-500 or K702 anniversary. How do they perform in fps compared to the AD700? If I choose the X1 or the HE-400/500, *would I be at any disadvantage vs the AD700 in fps*? Should I bother buying the HE-500 over the HE-400? BTW, I'll be using a Creative ZXR to drive whichever headphone I choose.


 
   
  A little.
   
  You won't beat the AD700s in FPS soundwhoring by throwing more money at pricier headphones.  All of the headphones you mentioned are infinitely more fun and immersive than the AD700, but as you get into warmer bassier signatures the more likely the small details like footsteps/reloading/etc will be obscured.  The AD700s basically present you _only _those details, with almost non-existant bass -  so no distractions from those details.  Combine that with one of the largest and most accurate sounding soundstages (while using Dolby Headphone) and you can see why they're one of the best cans for soundwhoring - and why they are hard to beat for it. _ This has been explained many times in this thread, but I'm repeating it again here (not trying to sound mean or anything)._
   
  As good as they AD700 are, I will never use them again because I don't need that raw soundwhoring ability and I am willing to sacrifice it for MUCH better immersion in the game.  Out of the list you mentioned, the X1s are my top recommendation. 
   
  If you want THE BEST, that will probably be the HD800...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I have said MANY times on this thread, if my competetive score is at least an 8, youre not gonna get do much if any better because a headphone has a 9 or 10. 

The AD700 is heavily competitive oriented, but is nowhere near as enjoyable as pretty much any of my other faves that don't score as highly, which I could still dominate competitively with.


----------



## daleb

MLE, do you think you'll ever try out the HD800s (or have you already)? Those things are absolutely amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. I have no doubt they're fantastic, but won't have the sound signature suited to my preference. I could never spend so much on a headphone that doesn't match my preference, and would basically only be used on occasion. I would be more likely to try out something like the TH900 or LCD3 than the HD800 if I were ever to spend that much money.

Like how I think most of my recent headphones are technically superior to the X1, yet wouldn't ever replace it as the X1 has the balance of sound I prefer. Not to mention things like comfort, soundstage, and being relatively easy to drive. You can get by with an X1 with a portable amp, or for gaming, just the Mixamp alone.


----------



## chicolom

Of all the flagships I've tried, the HD800, T1, and TH900 are my favs.
   
  The HD800s are a little warmer sounding than the Q701s, but not as much as the Anniversaries.  The treble extends higher than Q701s - the Q701s sound sort of like they hit their head on the upper mid ceiling and stay there too long.  The bass is greater quantity than Q701s, but not as much as the Anniversaries.  The soundstage has some of the best width, depth, and height I've heard in a headphone, and they make the Q701s soundstage sound fairly modest and also a bit flat, blurry and diffuse.  They're also crazy comfortable.  I imagine they would be a lot of fun if you gave them some decent bass boost and maybe somehow smoothed the highs a tad...
   
  T1s are also really good, with an impressive soundstage with very good depth and and separation.  They also have surprisingly strong bass impact while being very tight.  The treble was a little peaky on them though, could be an issue...
   
  Both the TH900 and D7000 just have some of the most incredible bass you will ever hear from a headphone.  It will rumble your whole body when it reaches down low.  And they have huge soundstages for closed headphones, with plenty of separation.  Sounds like a nice combination for gaming 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  Hopefully there will be another local meet soon so I can hear them all again (as long as Prepoman shows up!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )
  Next time I get time with them I will try to run them each through some Dolby Headphone tests and take notes.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I imagine they would be a lot of fun if you gave them some decent bass boost and maybe somehow smoothed the highs a tad...


 
  This is exactly what the Anaxilus mod does.
   

   
  The yellow line being after mod.
   
  Okay, so I think I just had the most fun I've ever had watching a movie through the VR Cinema 3D, without the Oculus. Meaning I only saw the movie on 1/6th of my laptop screen. Maybe it has to do with my huge sub-bass boot on my already sub-bass heavy headphones, but man is this program amazing. Its better then an actual theater by miles! I really need to find a way to put this into non-2 screen mode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

At one point in the pasg, I was very close to getting the T1. I was moments from sending payment, but I backed out. 

I think its because it doesn't have as much bass as the 990, which I was too accustomed to.

I'm 100% positive I would love them, but as I said before, I couldn't justify spending so much on a headphone that didn't have my preference in balance between bass and treble. 

To be honest, if the X1 had more mids and slightly less treble, I'd be even more in love. But then again, that would collapse the soundstage a bit, and make them less appealing for gaming. Not saying it has a problematic treble (it surely doesn't), but I miss my LCD2 and Annie mids.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Maybe it has to do with my huge sub-bass boot on my already *sub-bass heavy headphones...*


 
   
   
  You have headphones that don't just stay linear through the sub-bass but are actually _sub-bass heavy?!_
   




   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> At one point in the pasg, I was very close to getting the T1. I was moments from sending payment, but I backed out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Like I said, the T1s have a surprising amount of bass impact.  More then the Anniversaries.  This bass is also sort of accentuated by their "U" response.  You would like them, but maybe not enough to hang on to them.  I think the treble might be too bright.
   
  I don't want less treble from the X1.  They're already smooth sounding, and they don't have that much more treble than the Anniversaries as it is.  They _could _handle having a tad more mids and probably not have too many side effects from it.  Their mids aren't bad or anything, they're just not great like on the Anniversaries.
   
  With that said, the X1s balance makes them special for gaming and movies, and if you screwed with that too much might they would lose that and just become similar to the Anniversaries and HD650s. 
  Like I said a while ago "_You can't fault the Anniversaries for being more balanced, and neither can you fault the X1s for being more fun.  ONE single headphone can't simultaneously be both flat and balanced AND bassy and fun."_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is smooth overall, but it does have a peak at 10khz, and it's pretty audible at times. That's where I'm sure the X1 sparkle comes from. It's crazy, like in some music, 'S' sounds sound great, but then it others, it sounds a bit too glossed over and muffled. I wish the X1 didn't have such a steep cliff after 10khz. I'm sure it's why the sibilance is in check, but there are tradeoffs. Considering most people can hear up to around 16khz, that's some information that is basically non-existent on the X1.

From Innerfidelity.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> You have headphones that don't just stay linear through the sub-bass but are actually _sub-bass heavy?!_


 
   

   
   
  Sometimes I wonder if these headphones (the HD 280s) were just straight up designed for movies. It turns out DJing and movies overlap in what you need for immersion. The sub-bass is amazing.  It lacks in mid-bass, though. It's why I often say open headphones are bass heavy. They have such a boost compared to what I'm used to there. No sub bass like these though. These will shake your head from the force of its sub bass. I'd love to hear the D7000s next to these. If you read reviews, though *cough*MLE*cough*... You'll find many people see them as the most uncomfortable headphones ever made. Sad seeing as how well they work for immersion purposes.
   
  Edit:
   

  ...Well... I heard I like sub-bass...
   
  Sadly, I don't get to experience it nearly as well as I should. I decided one day I wanted to see how loud the sub-bass can go before they start distorting(pro-tip, they don't ever start)... So I opened Up FL Studios, and started running a sine wave somewhere around 40hz. I got it up to almost the clipping point (0db), and I just couldn't get it to do anything but play that sine wave. You know what is a good idea when you do volume tests on your headphones? Not wearing them. So, yeah, now I hear sub-bass about 10 db quieter then everyone else. Its why I'm not especially a lover of the sub-bass, I can't hear the power of it until there's a 10 db boost above neutral (or I just turn up the volume really loud).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sub bass is something easily found on CLOSED headphones like the 280. Try finding it on open headphones that aren't planar magnetic.

Also graphs don't represent what we hear as a whole. The D7000 completely demolishes the 280 in sub bass, yet the graph doesn't show that.

The TH900 graph actually represents more of how the D7000 sounds like than the D7000 graph. It's crazy.



The D7000 is known to have MORE bass than the TH900, so yeah. The D7000 doesn't make sense to me. The main difference I'd say from that graph, is that the mid bass would drop sooner, as the D7000's mid bass isn't THAT potent. It's more in line with the mids.


----------



## chicolom

Well, midfi dynamics don't always have the cleanest treble, and I would probably rather the X1smooth it off rather than have annoying treble sibilance. But isn't that what they are already doing? Are you saying you want more >10khz response from them?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Are you saying you want more >10khz response from them?


 
   
  Just a little more treble _would_ be nice... for me at least


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also graphs don't represent what we hear as a whole. The D7000 completely demolishes the 280 in sub bass, yet the graph doesn't show that.


 
  Well maybe head-rooms graphing methodology doesn't work as well with closed back headphones- check innerfidelity on the 2:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/DenonAHD7000B2012.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD280Pro.pdf
   
  As you can see, its the reverse here. The D7000s have 5 db more sub bass then the 280s.
   
  remembering that 10db is interpreted as a doubling of volume to the human ear....
   
  HOLY CRAP WHAT KIND OF BASS IS THAT LOUD?!*
   
  *Edit: Without EQ. My EQ adds 7 db sub-bass when I watch movies... That should put it up there in quantity, but definitely not quality. At least, I assume. I can't actually hear that huge of a difference (as in its not night and day) when listening to all the really expensive headphones.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Just a little more treble _would_ be nice... for me at least


I wouldn't mind a little more treble, as long as they can cleanly pull it off. They might be taking the safer approach. Still, they have more treble than the anniversaries, which I appreciate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Well, midfi dynamics don't always have the cleanest treble, and I would probably rather the X1smooth it off rather than have annoying treble sibilance. But isn't that what they are already doing? Are you saying you want more >10khz response from them?




Yes, not more 10khz, but more >10khz, at least with a gentle drop off, not a staggering drop that it has. It's a non-issue, but it does mute some of the extension, and some 'S' sounds aren't even audible. Like when I'm watching a show or playing a game and they're talking, 'S' in speech isn't always properly reproduced. I mean, this is a very minor gripe in contrast to EVERYTHING the X1 does so well. It's more of perfecting this minor gripe. I honestly wouldn't even bother EQ-ing it in, as I'm perfectly fine with it's sound as is. Just, in the future, it could be done, though not sure the Fidelio line has much of a future with Funai taking over.

We're talking a 20db+ deficiency AFTER 10khz. That's a bit much. That kills off basically ALL treble extension.


----------



## chicolom

I see.
   
  While I agree, I also this this is something we wouldn't be discussing if we hadn't looked at graphs of the X1.  
  I myself haven't looked that closely at the graphs, so I just said_ "The X1s have a hint of treble sparkle but are still a smooth sounding."  _
   
  Adding too much more above 10 khz would probably make them annoying sounding, but a more gentle roll off would be OK.  This is all nitpicking of course, as the X1 already sounds great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, seriously, I haven't seen this graph for awhile. The first shortcoming I heard with the X1 was the lack of detail in the Ss when people spoke. That's when I checked the graph again. I was wondering why Ss sounded so muffled at times. You don't even need to look at the graph to hear it. It's an obvious thing. Some words are cut short because of it. Like they just stop speaking. It's glaring at first.


----------



## roguegeek

And just to give a different angle on this, I actually do enjoy the AD-series' _signature_ more with general purpose material than I do the K702-65. Not a popular opinion, for sure, so no one should ever put a lot of weight behind it. On my journey and with everything I've read, I'm anticipating all road will lead to the HD 800. It just sounds like heaven.


----------



## chicolom

The lack of sibilance is glaring...

 O_0


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> The lack of sibilance is glaring...
> 
> O_0




The lack of completed sentences that end with words like '_sentences_', is glaring. 

I keed. It's not THAT bad, but yeah, it can creep up sorta like that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my Inakustik Star cable...only to find that it IS an optical cable. The description was completely wrong. Do NOT order this, thinking it's the 3.5mm cable (mis-labeled). It wasn't even the right length. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Q9SRKQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Sigh, another return...

Guess I'll stick to the Mediabridge cable for now.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The 990 is bassy, but most of its bass is mid bass, not deep bass. As far as open cans with deep bass goes, the HE400 and LCD2 hit the deepest. The X1 is very good on deep bass, but bigger on mid bass. If I had to choose on bassiness, definitely the X1 has more of what I look for in terms of emphasis and presence.
> 
> You can't expect a lot of deep bass from open cans, and they are few and far between. Don't expect it for cheap, either.
> 
> ...


Thankyou! I'm leaning towards either the X1 or K702 65th Anniversary. The X1 = $384 after taxes and the K702 is $399. Which is the better deal? BTW, the HE-400 can be had for $375....


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Got my Inakustik Star cable...only to find that it IS an optical cable. The description was completely wrong. Do NOT order this, thinking it's the 3.5mm cable (mis-labeled). It wasn't even the right length.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Q9SRKQ/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 

 What's the resistance on the Mediabridge cable...if you have a multimeter to test with??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have a multimeter.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *I don't have a multimeter.*


----------



## Fegefeuer

The TH-900 is pure _euphōnia, Real joy, it sings, it laughs, it dances, it smiles, clad in wonderful colors and flowers it flirts with me in its pure beauty. _
   
I prefer to refrain from exaggerations, hype and overreactions but I am really wowed and joyful. I understood why people love the D7000 so much when I listened to it, why they pay so crazy amounts here in the EU for used ones after the last new one found its lucky owner.
   
Fostex perfected it.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't have a multimeter.


 

 No problem...I do have a question regarding competitive gaming w/ Annie, X1, and D7000. If anyone has experience w/ these in online play particularly w/ BF3, Black Ops (or any COD), etc., I was curious which one (X1 or Annie) does the majority prefer?  I am keeping the D7000 for movies/single player games w/out question but, have not tested online beyond Crysis3 ( I sold most online FPS games when I only owned Annie and was disgusted w/ Treyarch for removing Harcore FFA).  If anyone could help me w/ some more first experience before my return window expires, I would appreciate it.  I am leaning to the Annie as a complement (online play only) because I have D7000 for movie bliss and X1 is more similar to it than Annie.
   
  PS thanx to everyone here for making me a freakin' headphone addict...my wallet salutes you.lol


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The TH-900 is pure _euphōnia, Real joy, it sings, it laughs, it dances, it smiles, clad in wonderful colors and flowers it flirts with me in its pure beauty. _
> 
> I prefer to refrain from exaggerations, hype and overreactions but I am really wowed and joyful. I understood why people love the D7000 so much when I listened to it, why they pay so crazy amounts here in the EU for used ones after the last new one found its lucky owner.
> 
> Fostex perfected it.


 

 But is it worth nearly 3X that of the D7000??


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> But is it worth nearly 3X that of the D7000??


 
  In my experience with the TH-900 I would pay no more than $1200 US for one. I think I am one of the few that does not think it belongs in the same breath as the HD 800 or LCD-3.
   
   
  Then again, unlike other folks in this thread _I gotta have my mids_. I can't imagine someone who likes the D7000 to not like the TH-900.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> But is it worth nearly 3X that of the D7000??


 
  In Germany D7000 prices range from 750-850€ USED, some ebay auctions even go beyond that. Different situation here. So from what I have paid (I paid below official price as usual) it is a bit below double the amount of a used D7000. (1400€). Talking about "worth the price" in High End audio is very subjective. If I had to choose from both and not enough money for the TH-900 I'd rather save up for it knowing I would regret buying the "lesser" product (In Germany we say something along "the better stuff is the good stuff's enemy." ). In the long run the price difference is nothing. 
   
  It competes very well with the HD 800 (which I own as well) and is the better "desert island" headphone imo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you already own the D7000, the Annie would make a better alternative than the X1, as the X1 has a similar balance of bass mids and treble as the D7000. Not exactly, but the Annie is a better contrast.

Daddy, just get the X1. It's the easiest to drive, the most comfortable, and has an added excitement over the Annie and HE400. Done.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I need help deciding. Philips X1, HE-400 or the K702 65th Anniversary edition. All 3 are priced around the same. Which to choose.....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Daddy, just get the X1. It's the easiest to drive, the most comfortable, and has an added touch of excitement over the Annie and HE400. Done. Easiest choice. The Annie is for those who want a tad more balance and warmth, and the HE-400, while being technically the better of the three, has polarizing treble, that can bother some people, needs velours pads to sound better, and isn't the most comfy.


----------



## Tato23

Mad Lust Envy.  You sir have produced a god of a thread man, and i dunno how you have kept up with it for so long. 
   
  quick question.  Do you still recommend the AD700s as a really great choice for mostly gaming and decent music sound?  

 I am planning on getting a PS4 but i will still mostly game on my PC.   Do you recommend getting the Astro Mixamp so can have great sound on both the PC and ps4? Or should i go buy a soundcard for PC, and plug my AD700s into my 5.1 reciever for my surround sound theater system?  would that make dolby sound work on the headphones, or do I have to have the mixamp to make it work?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





tato23 said:


> Mad Lust Envy.  You sir have produced a god of a thread man, and i dunno how you have kept up with it for so long.
> 
> quick question.  Do you still recommend the AD700s as a really great choice for mostly gaming and decent music sound?
> 
> I am planning on getting a PS4 but i will still mostly game on my PC.   Do you recommend getting the Astro Mixamp so can have great sound on both the PC and ps4? Or should i go buy a soundcard for PC, and plug my AD700s into my 5.1 reciever for my surround sound theater system?  would that make Dolby sound work on the headphones, or do I have to have the mixamp to make it work?


 

  Running HDMI from the computer's graphics card to the Onkyo and the PS4's HMDI out to the Onkyo, will provide the best audio quality and surround sound for the analog 5.1 speaker output.
  Adding something like the Asus Xonar DG ($30) or DGX ($45) to the windows PC is a low cost way of getting headphone surround sound for PC games (plug ATH-AD700s into Xonar DG(X))
  I'm going to guess the Mix-amp will be a good choice for plugging into the optical output on the PS4 and using the ATH-AD700 plugged into the Mix-Amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tato23 said:


> Mad Lust Envy.  You sir have produced a god of a thread man, and i dunno how you have kept up with it for so long.
> 
> quick question.  Do you still recommend the AD700s as a really great choice for mostly gaming and decent music sound?
> 
> ...




Thanks. The Ad700 isn't that great for music, IMHO. It's very, very lean on bass, dry sounding, and the treble can be harsh and grainy. I'd use it only for competitive gaming. I don't know what your budget is, but you may wanna check what headphones I'd consider as all rounders (there is a list on the first page, saying what I like for competitive, fun, and all around. The X1 hasn't been reviewed yet, but if you can spend as much as the X1, that'd be my first recommendation. the K702 Annie would be second, at least in the price range. If you can spring that sort of cost, the lower priced all rounders like the Creative Auravana Live (under $100), the DT990 Pro (under $200, fairly bassy and open, with a lot of treble).

The next step up from the AD700 directly would be the Q701, which is a better headphone in almost every regard. Not my first choice for music, but it's pretty good. As for your receiver, I'm not sure it has a proper virtual surround. I wouldn't use the Mixamp for the PC. A cheap alternative would be the Xonar U3 which runs for less than $50. You can use that for PC, and maybe find a used Turtle Beach DSS for cheap on Ebay, which would help you out for consoles, unless you can afford Mixamp.


----------



## Tato23

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Running HDMI from the computer's graphics card to the Onkyo and the PS4's HMDI out to the Onkyo, will provide the best audio quality and surround sound for the analog 5.1 speaker output.
> Adding something like the Asus Xonar DG ($30) or DGX ($45) to the windows PC is a low cost way of getting headphone surround sound for PC games (plug ATH-AD700s into Xonar DG(X))
> I'm going to guess the Mix-amp will be a good choice for plugging into the optical output on the PS4 and using the ATH-AD700 plugged into the Mix-Amp.


 

 I am so sorry, I don't really know anything at all about audio.  What would running the HDMI from the computer's graphics card to the onkyo do exactly? You mean have my computer sounds come from the 5.1 receiver and plug my headphones into that?  That does sound like a good idea, but unfortunately where my receiver is gonna be a good 10-12 feet away from my computer monitor  That surround sound setup is gonna be used for my 32 inch TV with the ps4.  My computer is completely seperate, so i need a different solution. 

 Mad Lust,  Really music quality isn't all that important to me, as long as they sound better than my current logitech g35s.  Also cant the mixamp help boost the bass on the AD700s? 

 With the 5.1 receiver, for my surround sound theater.  Will that produce 5.1 on my headphones? with high quality?  If so then I guess the best solution would be to buy a sound card and just transfer the headphones from the port to the sound card, to the port on the receiver? Also i have a friend willing to sell me a Sound Blaster  X-fi Titanium Fatality pro gamer's choice, for 50 bucks,  Is that a good deal? Is this card still good today to use? 

 Also my budget depending on if i go for mixamp or not, isn't much for headphones.  Total package of headphones plus either amp or soundcard, needs to stay under 250 if i can.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Daddy, just get the X1. It's the easiest to drive, the most comfortable, and has an added touch of excitement over the Annie and HE400. Done. Easiest choice. The Annie is for those who want a tad more balance and warmth, and the HE-400, while being technically the better of the three, has polarizing treble, that can bother some people, needs velours pads to sound better, and isn't the most comfy.


So for the same price, you would get the X1 over the AKG 702 65TH Anniversary, HE-400 and the HD 650? I just found out razordogaudio carries the HD 650 for $399.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> So for the same price, you would get the X1 over the AKG 702 65TH Anniversary, HE-400 and the HD 650? I just found out razordogaudio carries the HD 650 for $399.




I already answered you. X1. The 650 doesnt do gaming as well. I mentioned that on the guide. Really beginning to think people don't read my reviews.




tato23 said:


> I am so sorry, I don't really know anything at all about audio.  What would running the HDMI from the computer's graphics card to the onkyo do exactly? You mean have my computer sounds come from the 5.1 receiver and plug my headphones into that?  That does sound like a good idea, but unfortunately where my receiver is gonna be a good 10-12 feet away from my computer monitor  That surround sound setup is gonna be used for my 32 inch TV with the ps4.  My computer is completely seperate, so i need a different solution.
> 
> 
> Mad Lust,  Really music quality isn't all that important to me, as long as they sound better than my current logitech g35s.  Also cant the mixamp help boost the bass on the AD700s?
> ...




The Onkyo doesn't have virtual surround. Soundcards won't pass virtual surround to external devices. IF your computer passes surround through it's optical out to the Mixamp, that can be a good device to use for both Pc and your external devices, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I have an expensive Alienware laptop with an optical out, and it doesn't pass 5.1 out, so it won't work with my mixamp.

Again, something like the Xonar U3 for your computer (or an internal card like the Asus essence ST), and a Mixamp/DSS for external devices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





tato23 said:


> I am so sorry, I don't really know anything at all about audio.  What would running the HDMI from the computer's graphics card to the onkyo do exactly? You mean have my computer sounds come from the 5.1 receiver and plug my headphones into that?  That does sound like a good idea, but unfortunately where my receiver is gonna be a good 10-12 feet away from my computer monitor  That surround sound setup is gonna be used for my 32 inch TV with the ps4.  My computer is completely seperate, so i need a different solution.
> 
> Mad Lust,  Really music quality isn't all that important to me, as long as they sound better than my current logitech g35s.  Also cant the mixamp help boost the bass on the AD700s?
> 
> ...


 
  Skip my idea of connecting the computer to the Onkyo.
  Just get the Asus Xonar DG sound card for the PC, using the Mix-amp with the PC would not offer any better features over the Xonar DG (for the PC).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





3x0 said:


> Then again, unlike other folks in this thread _I gotta have my mids_. I can't imagine someone who likes the D7000 to not like the TH-900.


 
   
  Likewise, I gotta have my midrange and my sweet vocals. That's what keeps me coming back to that old SR-Lambda (along with its ludicrous comfort). Not even the SR-202 compares, surprising as that may sound; it's almost like an electrostatic HE-400 in that it sounds a tad recessed there, enough for vocals to drop back behind everything else.
   
  The problem I have is that I'm not sure what else is out there that aligns with my tastes. The Koss ESP/950 seems like a safe bet, but it's not cheap...not since that $350 eBay auction a year or two ago...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet mids are K702 Anniversary, HD650, LCD2. Those are the main 3 as far as mids go for me. The ESP950 too, but that build quality is absolutely atrocious, and that loose fit was just.... not right.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Must Love Envy, I have your read reviews. I noticed that you don't have the X1 listed. What would you rate them out of 10 competitive wise?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't reviewed them, because I haven't had much time with them, and haven't put them through all forms of gaming yet. They're at LEAST an 8, which means they will more than likely be my top recommendation for all rounders. Like I said, stop dwelling so much on scores. The difference between an 8 and 10 is not gonna make or break a headphone.


----------



## Tato23

Thanks Mad lust for the replies. 
   
  Okay so its sounding like i need to go for a direct soundcard for my PC.   I know you recommended 2 items like the xonar x3.  Is that gonna be just as good as say a 100 dollar sound card?  Like i said i have a friend that will sell me his x-fi titanium for 50 bucks, is that a good card, or deal to go for, or is that card to old now? Or will the xonar x3 do just as good. Keep in mind i don't have room for sound cards to be placed in PCI near the video cards.  SO it has to fit the PC slot above the cards, the little one. 

 And is there any other alternatives to the DSS for my external devices? Seems like that item is discontinued maybe? And I really hate buying things off ebay, i just don't trust it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





tato23 said:


> Also i have a friend willing to sell me a Sound Blaster  X-fi Titanium Fatality pro gamer's choice, for 50 bucks,  Is that a good deal? Is this card still good today to use?


 
   
  I'd say that's about the right price for a Titanium (non-HD) of any kind. Go for it.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Soundcards won't pass virtual surround to external devices.


 
   
  My experience suggests otherwise with X-Fi cards. They pass through CMSS-3D Headphone over S/PDIF just fine; you just have to know how to set it up properly.
   
  Other sound cards may vary.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sweet mids are K702 Anniversary, HD650, LCD2. Those are the main 3 as far as mids go for me. The ESP950 too, but that build quality is absolutely atrocious, and that loose fit was just.... not right.


 
   
  But you see, it's BECAUSE the ESP/950 has a loose fit that I want it, along with the talk of its sound quality. (Just so long as the bloody thing doesn't start squealing on me...)
   
  My SR-Lambda also has a loose fit, enough that headbanging will shake it loose and have it fall off your head. It helps immensely with long-term comfort because it doesn't feel like there's a vice on my head. The Nova/numerical Lambdas like the SR-407 you tried have a significantly increased clamping force that really hurts comfort in the long run, and that's no good for gaming.
   
  It's something I've consistently noticed with headphones. The looser ones like AD700s and vintage Lambdas always end up being more comfortable for me.
   
  Of course, I've never had any ears-on time with your main 3, and my wallet's reluctant to find out the hard way whether they'd be suitable alternatives if something happens to the world's Normal bias SR-Lambda supply or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno about those soundcards, and you would definitely be the one to answer. All I know is that if he wanted to pass a 5.1 dolby digital signal FROM a sound card to the Mixamp, he'd have to make sure it was doable, as some cards don't (like mine). And you can't accept and external input and 'filter' it through the soundcard and back out.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





tato23 said:


> Thanks Mad lust for the replies.
> 
> Okay so its sounding like i need to go for a direct sound card for my PC.   I know you recommended 2 items like the xonar x3.  Is that gonna be just as good as say a 100 dollar sound card?  Like i said i have a friend that will sell me his X-fi Titanium for 50 bucks, is that a good card, or deal to go for, or is that card to old now? Or will the xonar x3 do just as good. Keep in mind i don't have room for sound cards to be placed in PCI near the video cards.  SO it has to fit the PC slot above the cards, the little one.
> 
> And is there any other alternatives to the DSS for my external devices? Seems like that item is discontinued maybe? And I really hate buying things off ebay, i just don't trust it.


 
  I'm assuming you mean Xonar U3, not Xonar X3.
   
  I'm guessing that little slot above the cards is a PCI-E 1X slot, good place for the Titanium sound card.
   
  The Titanium (non-HD) sound card should provide better audio quality (and features) then the external USB Xonar U3.
  $50 for the Titanium (non-HD) is a fair price, hopefully it comes with the original install disk
   
  Turn off "disable" the motherboard's on-board audio (in the bios) when you stall the Titanium.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only said the U3 in case he wanted a simple usb card with Dolby Headphone. Internal is the way to go if you have a desktop.


----------



## pietcux

I would go external, because all the PC's ultra high frequency signals can and will influence the analog signal on the soundcard when it is created from the DAC. I have the new external Xonar U7. It takes the digital audio signal from the USB port and does all the processing and the analog amplification outside of the internal noise storm of the PC. It is far better than a U3 and nearly as good as Xonar STX.


----------



## chicolom

Where did you get the U7? I looked and couldn't find anyone selling it.

Also, I thought it had "Dolby home theater v.4" but that it didn't actually include Dolby Headphone?


----------



## minion1990

pietcux said:


> I have the new external Xonar U7. [... ] It is far better than a U3 and nearly as good as Xonar STX.




I highly doubt that it can compete with the essence, phoebus or xense in terms of audio quality


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Where did you get the U7? I looked and couldn't find anyone selling it.
> 
> Also, I thought it had "Dolby home theater v.4" but that it didn't actually include Dolby Headphone?




Apparently asked a rep, and Home Theater V4 has Dolby headphone.... APPARENTLY. It's kind of like THX tru Studio, in that it's a software program for all types of audio, with the virtual surround included. Dolby may be doing away with limiting the name to just associate itself with 'Headphone'.


----------



## pietcux

Got it from the UK, but it is available all over Europe. And it is damn good.


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> Likewise, I gotta have my midrange and my sweet vocals. That's what keeps me coming back to that old SR-Lambda (along with its ludicrous comfort). Not even the SR-202 compares, surprising as that may sound; it's almost like an electrostatic HE-400 in that it sounds a tad recessed there, enough for vocals to drop back behind everything else.
> The problem I have is that I'm not sure what else is out there that aligns with my tastes. The Koss ESP/950 seems like a safe bet, but it's not cheap...not since that $350 eBay auction a year or two ago...


 
  I guess we're some of the few gamers that use ES headphones, though my transition has been a little more recent and sudden. The resolution is somewhat unreal, even when compared to the top dynamic headphones (e.g. HD 800), mostly due to how smooth they are in presentation.
   
  I've made peace with the lack of "body" in the bass relative to traditional dynamics since I've realized the latter's body is really just distortion, plus ever since my lasting fling with AT I just don't care about phat bass anymore.
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sweet mids are K702 Anniversary, HD650, LCD2. Those are the main 3 as far as mids go for me. The ESP950 too, but that build quality is absolutely atrocious, and that loose fit was just.... not right.


 
  My time with the latter two suggests that you prefer a sound with less upper-midrange/lower-treble emphasis (i.e. compared to something that is _strong_ there like an AT)...


----------



## minion1990

I've read, that Dolby home theater v4 has no real virtual surround effect - it has just a stereo widening effect.
   
   


> Hi guys !!
> 
> Seems like a lot of people who get used to dolby headphone on previous Xonar card questioning this. I`ve done some researched on the internet and also with my personal experience after using the phoebus for a month. Apparently, they replaced the dolby headphone features in phoebus with Xear Surround Headphone. Both has almost similar feature which is taking 7.1 signal from windows audio (it can be games, movies, etc) and virtualized it through stereo headphones so you`ll get directional surround sound from your stereo headphone.
> 
> ...


 
http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?29575-Dolby-headphone-in-Phoebus&p=246259&viewfull=1#post246259


----------



## DADDYDC650

Thanks for all of your input MLE. I ordered an X1. Should be at my place by Wednesday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I myself ordered a Xonar U3. Was missing Dolby headphone with all this PC gaming. THX Tru Studio is good, but not as immersive, and not as good at rear cues.That, and the constant resetting of my sound options was getting to me. Hopefully with the Xonar, I won't have to do that, but who knows? Sold the PLYR, and that offset the purchase of the Xonar and then some.


----------



## 3X0

Xonar U3? Yuck!
   
  Why can't they just make a USB "sound card" with DH, CMSS3D or THXTSP _and_ optical out...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> I myself ordered a Xonar U3. Was missing Dolby headphone with all this PC gaming. THX Tru Studio is good, but not as immersive, and not as good at rear cues.That, and the constant resetting of my sound options was getting to me. Hopefully with the Xonar, I won't have to do that, but who knows? Sold the PLYR, and that offset the purchase of the Xonar and then some.


I wonder how that Xonar U3 compares to my Creative ZXR. Looks like a nice little device.

BTW, is that your review on Amazon in regards to the X1? Christian?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3x0 said:


> Xonar U3? Yuck!
> 
> Why can't they just make a USB "sound card" with DH, CMSS3D or THXTSP _and_ optical out...




I'll be doing what I do with my consoles, attaching my headphone amp to the U3's headphone out, using the U3 as a Dolby headphone pre-amp. I'm ONLY using it for gaming and movie files with Dolby encoding. I don't need an expensive device for DH gaming. I'm used to the Mixamp. For $40, it will be fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> I wonder how that Xonar U3 compares to my Creative ZXR. Looks like a nice little device.
> 
> BTW, is that your review on Amazon in regards to the X1? Christian?




Yeah, that's me.


----------



## Tato23

Let me know how the u3 works!


----------



## gameid10086

Hi mad lust envy. Your guide is very helpful to me but I still have some questions regarding on which headphone I should get. I now have astro a50 but its mic problem is very annoying when talking quietly . I wonder if byerdynamic dt990 would250ohm pro (160) has better sound than a50? Fun wise. And u said it got strong clamp I also have a m50 and it hurts after 2hours of gaming I wonder if dt990 would hurt as bad? Thank you so much!


----------



## daleb

I can't even feel the clamp on the DT880 Pros, which should carry over to the 990s.


----------



## Yayze

Would like to see how the Beyerdynamic Custom Pro One fairs on here. I'm currently looking into these, would love to know how they hold-up for competitive use compared to the Audio Technica-M50 and the AKG K701/K702 which I am also looking into getting. Just can't decide and can't find any good comparison for the AKG to the Custom Pro One on all levels, including competitive.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> I've read, that Dolby home theater v4 has no real virtual surround effect - it has just a stereo widening effect.
> 
> 
> http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?29575-Dolby-headphone-in-Phoebus&p=246259&viewfull=1#post246259


 
  I sent Dolby a new email to ask them to clarify this issue for us. Let's hope that they can bring some light on this.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





gameid10086 said:


> Hi mad lust envy. Your guide is very helpful to me but I still have some questions regarding on which headphone I should get. I now have astro a50 but its mic problem is very annoying when talking quietly . I wonder if byerdynamic dt990 would250ohm pro (160) has better sound than a50? Fun wise. And u said it got strong clamp I also have a m50 and it hurts after 2hours of gaming I wonder if dt990 would hurt as bad? Thank you so much!


 
  I can wear the DT990s for long periods of time, with no problems, but you want to use them at least a half-way decent amp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> I would go external, because all the PC's ultra high frequency signals can and will influence the analog signal on the soundcard when it is created from the DAC. I have the new external Xonar U7. It takes the digital audio signal from the USB port and does all the processing and the analog amplification outside of the internal noise storm of the PC. It is far better than a U3 and nearly as good as Xonar STX.


 
   
  Frankly, I do feel that gets overblown at times. Didn't really notice any difference between a Titanium HD and JDS Labs-built ODAC once volume-matched.
   
  It COULD be a factor, but I'm not sure it's one that warrants $300+ external DACs with S/PDIF input. (I simply cannot do without internal sound cards, for gaming reasons. I already have far too many games designed with sound card DSPs in mind.)


----------



## DADDYDC650

Hey Must Love Envy, should I purchase the Mediabridge 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable for my X1's? Would it effect sound quality in a positive way? Also, should I be worried about the cable jack eventually failing? Last of all, do you think the ear pads will last a long time? I've read that they are not removable.


----------



## pervysage

Is there anything out there that supports DTS audio for the PC? Most of my movies have DTS sound and using something like the Mixamp results in no sound because there is no DTS support.


----------



## Change is Good

For some reason I catch myself using the X1 a lot more than the MDs... even for music. That's saying something about the X1 because I usually like my music to be in my face (rather than open).
   
  The MDs are still badass, though...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Is there anything out there that supports DTS audio for the PC? Most of my movies have DTS sound and using something like the Mixamp results in no sound because there is no DTS support.


 
  Asus Xonar DS and DSX sound cards come with DTS audio support.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> Is there anything out there that supports DTS audio for the PC? Most of my movies have DTS sound and using something like the Mixamp results in no sound because there is no DTS support.


 

 An A/V receiver such as Pioneer has excellent headphone surround that supports everything including DTS & Dolby TrueHD.  It can't decode DTS HDMA but, will use the core DTS instead.  I use XBMC for my Bluray .mkv's and it works perfectly with my entire 300+ collection.  I actually prefer the Pioneer virtual headphone surround sound compared to my Mixamp Pro (+ it acts as pretty strong amp as well).  Or the Victor SU-DH1 which I found to be near impossible to find.
   
  Edit: I should have mentioned I have a HTPC not a desktop setup, sorry.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





daddydc650 said:


> Hey Must Love Envy, should I purchase the Mediabridge 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable for my X1's? Would it effect sound quality in a positive way? Also, should I be worried about the cable jack eventually failing? Last of all, do you think the ear pads will last a long time? I've read that they are not removable.


 
  I got this. ...
   Yes. Yes. No, be gentle. Yes, be gentle.
   
  Read stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

happy bullets said:


> I got this. ...
> Yes. Yes. No, be gentle. Yes, be gentle.
> 
> 
> Read stuff.




Thank you.

All 3.5mm jacks should be handled with care. That includes on your devices like phones, etc.

The mediabridge cable sounds fine. Better than stock. Easier to handle than the Inakustik Premium cable. If you're worried about low resistance, just get the Monoprice cable:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021816&p_id=9765&seq=1&format=2
They also have a 10ft version.

They look identical to the mediabridge cable, and I have a feeling they're the same cable (probably same OEM). Chico confirmed the Monoprice cable to be 0.4ohms, so you should be set. I can't confrim the Mediabridge cable's resistance until about 8 hours from now. You can wait until I conform the resistance, but the Mediabridge cable is twice as expensive for probably the same exact cable.

As for the pads, as long as you're not wearing them while being all dirty or wet or something, the pads should last a long time. If anything happens, I'd just contact Philips for a pad replacement. Not sure how long they'll be in business, though they'll probably transfer all the warranties and repairs to Funai.

The worst kind of pads in terms of long use is cheap pleather, which start to flake.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





daddydc650 said:


> Hey *Must Love* Envy


 
   
  lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I caught that. lol. I honestly which I could change my name, or start a new account, but I'm too well known as MLE. 

Too much infatuation with the seven sins. :rolleyes:

That and Fullmetal Alchemist. 

Wow, Amazon for some stupid reason will NOT allow my K702 65 review to be posted. I edited the hell out of it and they still won't accept it. :rolleyes:


----------



## HalidePisces

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021816&p_id=9765&seq=1&format=2
> They also have a 10ft version.
> 
> They look identical to the mediabridge cable, and I have a feeling they're the same cable (probably same OEM). Chico confirmed the Monoprice cable to be 0.4ohms, so you should be set. I can't confrim the Mediabridge cable's resistance until about 8 hours from now. You can wait until I conform the resistance, but the Mediabridge cable is twice as expensive for probably the same exact cable.




http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021812&p_id=5575&seq=1&format=2
Anyone know if the thick Monoprice cables have the same resistance?


----------



## DemonFox

gameid10086 said:


> Hi mad lust envy. Your guide is very helpful to me but I still have some questions regarding on which headphone I should get. I now have astro a50 but its mic problem is very annoying when talking quietly . I wonder if byerdynamic dt990 would250ohm pro (160) has better sound than a50? Fun wise. And u said it got strong clamp I also have a m50 and it hurts after 2hours of gaming I wonder if dt990 would hurt as bad? Thank you so much!




DT990's are far and away the most comfy pair I've ever owned. I could wear them all day with no issues at all. They will sound worlds better than the M50's for all applications and be a lot more comfy.


Thanks,


D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A50 is nowhere near as good as the DT990 Pros. And the 990 Pros clamp less than the M50 (assuming you didn't bend the M50 for a looser fit.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





halidepisces said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021812&p_id=5575&seq=1&format=2
> Anyone know if the thick Monoprice cables have the same resistance?


 
   
  Not sure, but I would strongly recommend _*NOT*_ using the monoprice "premium" cables as a headphone cable.  They are super thick and super stiff and will likely destroy your jack.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That and Fullmetal Alchemist.


 
  I've already watched the original Fullmetal Alchemist.
  Is the Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood different enough to be worth it to watch,
  or is it mostly close to same as the original Fullmetal Alchemint?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like Chico said, avoid that cable like the plague. It's a incredibly bulky. Like having two thick cables paired into one. (THICK cables per each channel). But the one that looks like the Mediabridge cable. Same low resistance (0.4ohm). I confirmed it today. 



purpleangel said:


> I've already watched the original Fullmetal Alchemist.
> Is the Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood different enough to be worth it to watch,
> or is it mostly close to same as the original Fullmetal Alchemint?




Brotherhood is so good, it renders the original pointless. No, really. It's amazing. The story deviates from the original by quite a bit. New characters are introduced, and the way it ends, it may as well be a different story altogether.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Brotherhood is so good, it renders the original pointless. No, really. It's amazing. The story deviates from the original by quite a bit. New characters are introduced, and the way it ends, it may as well be a different story altogether.


 
  Cool, I can add it to my Netflix list.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey MLE,
   
  have you thought about the TH-600?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd like to try it, but I hear it's more neutral than the D7000. I don't want less of ANYTHING than the D7000. Call it controlled, I call it LESS. The D7000 was perfect as is, no modding, no nothing. I'm sure the TH600 is great but I would never spend that much on something with a sound signature not suited to my preference. I hear the TH900 isn't as neutral and more fun oriented. I'd save up for that if I were ever to spend that much on headphones. For now, I'm really happy with the X1, and I don't see anything changing that in the foreseeable future.


----------



## LoveKnight

Hi Mad Lust Envy. I am really in a tough situation to choose between a Mad Dog 3.2 and a Sennheiser HD650. I read your review and saw that they are nearly similar. The bass is better on the Mad Dog, but on the other hand the mid on the HD650 is better than Mad Dog. I am as a current owner of a HD598 I found out that the bass is weak, the mid is not impact and the treble is fatiguing. I love the bass and mid but more on the mid.
   
  Another tough choice is I do not have a good amplify.If I choose the Mad Dog I will have to choose to buy high power amplify for orthos such as The Pan Am as orthos are hungry for power and the total cost could be out of my budget. Otherwise if I choose HD650 of couse this headphone is more expensive than Mad Dog ($500 vs $300) but I read a lot and found out the Bottlehead Crack is a very nice amp for HD650 and the total cost for this combo is lower than the Mad Dog combo.
   
  To look for help. What is your suggestion? My music tastes such as Pop, Dance, Instruments, classical, Jazz, Movies-Games soundtrack. Thanks.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd like to try it, but I hear it's more neutral than the D7000. I don't want less of ANYTHING than the D7000. Call it controlled, I call it LESS. The D7000 was perfect as is, no modding, no nothing. I'm sure the TH600 is great but I would never spend that much on something with a sound signature not suited to my preference. I hear the TH900 isn't as neutral and more fun oriented. I'd save up for that if I were ever to spend that much on headphones. For now, I'm really happy with the X1, and I don't see anything changing that in the foreseeable future.


 
  It's one of the better 'closed' headphones I've personally heard (got to try it at the local meet with Justin from HeadAmp) but I definitely prefer open headphones any day unless I was in a situation that absolutely required a closed headphone (i.e. airplane) and then I would probably use IEMs.  It seemed fairly neutral, with a slight warm tilt, a satisfying amount of impact and the driver had decent speed and attack.  My sampling was short so I can't say much beyond that - it had the characteristics of a typical closed can, but more open sounding than most others.  The TH900 is said to sound even more open sounding, but take that for what you will - I don't think it can match most open headphones.  I've actually never heard any of the Dxxx series unfortunately so I can't make a comparison there.  When considering a closed can, the fact that this is technically semi-open (and a primary purpose of a closed can is isolation) and the high price tag, that would sway me towards something like the MD.  I think a used D7000 is likely the better value.
  Glad you are enjoying the X1 though, I am curious as to how they sound so hopefully I'll get to sample one sometime.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





loveknight said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy. I am really in a tough situation to choose between a Mad Dog 3.2 and a Sennheiser HD650. I read your review and saw that they are nearly similar. The bass is better on the Mad Dog, but on the other hand the mid on the HD650 is better than Mad Dog. I am as a current owner of a HD598 I found out that the bass is weak, the mid is not impact and the treble is fatiguing. I love the bass and mid but more on the mid.
> 
> Another tough choice is I do not have a good amplify.If I choose the Mad Dog I will have to choose to buy high power amplify for orthos such as The Pan Am as orthos are hungry for power and the total cost could be out of my budget. Otherwise if I choose HD650 of couse this headphone is more expensive than Mad Dog ($500 vs $300) but I read a lot and found out the Bottlehead Crack is a very nice amp for HD650 and the total cost for this combo is lower than the Mad Dog combo.
> 
> To look for help. What is your suggestion? My music tastes such as Pop, Dance, Instruments, classical, Jazz, Movies-Games soundtrack. Thanks.


 
  Because the HD600/HD650 perform their best on a well-paired amp, your best bet is likely the MD.  A good entry level amp like the Schiit Magni would provide plenty of power (and is probably the best cost-efficient pairing you'll find) for about $100.  So, you could technically work with the MD + Magni for about $425-$450 with shipping considered.  The Crack is known to pair well with the HD600/HD650, but that setup would be much more expensive in comparison and I believe you have to build the Crack, I think it only comes as a kit.  Just some things to consider


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

loveknight said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy. I am really in a tough situation to choose between a Mad Dog 3.2 and a Sennheiser HD650. I read your review and saw that they are nearly similar. The bass is better on the Mad Dog, but on the other hand the mid on the HD650 is better than Mad Dog. I am as a current owner of a HD598 I found out that the bass is weak, the mid is not impact and the treble is fatiguing. I love the bass and mid but more on the mid.
> 
> Another tough choice is I do not have a good amplify.If I choose the Mad Dog I will have to choose to buy high power amplify for orthos such as The Pan Am as orthos are hungry for power and the total cost could be out of my budget. Otherwise if I choose HD650 of couse this headphone is more expensive than Mad Dog ($500 vs $300) but I read a lot and found out the Bottlehead Crack is a very nice amp for HD650 and the total cost for this combo is lower than the Mad Dog combo.
> 
> To look for help. What is your suggestion? My music tastes such as Pop, Dance, Instruments, classical, Jazz, Movies-Games soundtrack. Thanks.




I think people are overstating the need for the HD650. I founded to sound GREAT off the $100 Fiio E9K. Certainly not a big loss compared to the Audio-GD SA-31 which has a TON more power, and costs 5 times the price, nor the Compass 2. I liked the HD650 off each of these. I really, really like them and would be my alternative for the K702 Anniversary.

The MD needs an amp, but it is NOT hard to drive. It can be enjoyable off lesser equipment. Probably less picky than the 650. Honestly, I find the MD's treble to be slightly fatiguing. Yes, it's a very smooth headphone, but there is a peak somewhere that bothered me at times. The HD650 is never fatiguing, and a lot easier to relax to. The HD650 has better mids, and punchy bass, while the MD has better bass than mids (3.2). I prefer the open presentation of the HD650 over the closed MD. 


http://www.razordogaudio.com/collections/sennheiser/products/sennheiser-hd-650-audiophile-headphones-hd650-new

HD650 is $400 after the $100 off coupon.

If you prefer bass, get the MD, if you prefer mids, get the HD650.

Either way, if I were you, I'd spend $365 on the K702 Anniversary which is like a more open HD650. Good bass, good mids, good treble, great comfort. Sounds great off a E9K, Magni (tested both), whatever desktop amp you throw at it, I'm sure.

http://www.amazon.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/dp/B00A8LZ5GU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372180310&sr=8-2&keywords=k702


----------



## OnePunchMan

Can someone reccommend me a flagship headphone+amp setup that would be prilimarily used for music and gaming? I'm looking for a overall balanced sound from the headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





onepunchman said:


> Can someone reccommend me a flagship headphone+amp setup that would be prilimarily used for music and gaming? I'm looking for a overall balanced sound from the headphones.


 
  Might help to state a budget.
  FPS gaming or other PC games?
  Open or closed headphones? does it matter?
  Does your PC computer have an add-on sound card, or your just currently using on-board audio?


----------



## benbenkr

Hey guys, Razer just released their own HRTF tech and is currently free - http://www.razerzone.com/surround
   
  Care to try them out guys?
  It's free for a limited time, so no harm done by trying it out.


----------



## chicolom

I listened to the audio demo, but I don't hear all that much directionality or soundstage.  The audio demo is also a bit misleading as the stereo track has been EQ-ed to sound pretty crappy with no bass or low range.
   
  Maybe it sounds better in actual use.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> I sent Dolby a new email to ask them to clarify this issue for us. Let's hope that they can bring some light on this.


 
  [size=11pt]Hi again,[/size]
  [size=11pt]here comes the next question. This is a big discussion on HeadFi.org.  When DHT v4 is activated for headphone use, does Windows or the running application send real 5.1 or 7.1 to the sound processor ? Or does it only provide stereo information that is kind of processed to sound like surround. [/size]
  [size=11pt]So is it real multi-channel information or only stereo the basis for what DHT v4 sends to the headphone? That is very important for a lot of FPS gamers out on HeadFi.org and elsewhere.  And the new interface tells us nothing about what’s going on behind the curtain…[/size]
  [size=11pt]Please clarify[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]Peter[/size]
  [size=11pt][size=11pt]Hi Peter-[/size][/size]
   
  [size=11pt][size=11pt]Thanks for the email.  In Dolby Home Theater v4 the headphone virtualizer algorithm receives and processes discrete multichannel audio.  Hope this helps.[/size][/size]
   
  [size=11pt][size=11pt]-The Dolby Game Team[/size][/size]
  [size=11pt] [/size]
  [size=11pt] [/size]


----------



## OnePunchMan

Ah, right it would definitely be for fps games on console. Budget is around 1000-1500 but would be willing to go higher if the reason is justifiable or if I know I'd get my moneys worth. I'd prefer open headphones but would also accept closed as well.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





onepunchman said:


> Ah, right it would definitely be for fps games on console. Budget is around 1000-1500 but would be willing to go higher if the reason is justifiable or if I know I'd get my moneys worth. I'd prefer open headphones but would also accept closed as well.


 
  Console gaming.
  Astro Mix-amp, $130
  Audio Technica ATH-AD900X open headphones, $220
  Any mic you would like, $20(?)
   
  Total, $370 (plus any tax or shipping).
   
  Not sure why anyone would need to spend more for headphone "console" gaming.


----------



## chicolom

The T90 looks BRIGHT on headroom's graphs.  Bass extension looks decent though, not that you'd care though when the treble is piercing your soul.
   


Spoiler: Graph


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> Not sure why anyone would need to spend more for headphone "console" gaming.


 
   
  Are you suggesting you should pay that much for PC gaming headphones over console gaming? Plus he said he will also be using these for music.
   
  I'd suggest the HD800s if you really want to go for a flagship. Some people find it bright, though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





daleb said:


> Are you suggesting you should pay that much for PC gaming headphones over console gaming? Plus he said he will also be using these for music.
> 
> I'd suggest the HD800s if you really want to go for a flagship. Some people find it bright, though.


 
  My brain's headphone and gaming knowledge is limited to what I read and the prices I willing to pay for headphones.
   
  My statement of "Not sure why would anyone want to spend more for headphone "console" gaming" could be seen as a question and not really a fact.
  Just showing I'm limited to what I've read and that what I personally willing to spend for a headphone (which is $312).


----------



## daleb

I'm personally willing to spend about $100, so I have a problem there XD
  I do keep up with a lot of the hifi headphones, though, and know how a good amount of them sound.


----------



## OnePunchMan

The reason I want a flagship is because I want a headphone that is very hgh quality that I can listen to music to for long intervals with a preferably balanced sound as well as game on console that would would have superior sound accuracy and positioning and im willing to shell out a considerable sum of money for a quality one that will last me a while. ill look into the HD 800s though


----------



## daleb

Many people do find the HD800s fatiguing, because it is_ very_ revealing of the sound quality and how good the music producer really is. That might be something to take into account, especially if you listen to music that's not of perfect quality.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> Hey guys, Razer just released their own HRTF tech and is currently free - http://www.razerzone.com/surround
> 
> Care to try them out guys?
> It's free for a limited time, so no harm done by trying it out.


 
   
  A short little review about the software. Doesn't sound bad for free. I may look into this. I would love to be able to get surround through software and then use my T1 as a DAC. Mmmm, tubes. However, there is such a thing as too much processing.


----------



## Naingolann

It sounds pretty good! I'll be giving it a try since I don't have any DH stuff on my pc. By the way, it's "free" for a whole year, correct?


----------



## OnePunchMan

Thanks daleb, ill be sure to keep that in mind.


----------



## roguegeek

daleb said:


> I'd suggest the HD800s if you really want to go for a flagship. Some people find it bright, though.



Real quick question. Have you heard the HD 800 for any extended amount of time?


----------



## daleb

For about 30 minutes. It was awesome.


----------



## pngwn

mad lust envy said:


> purpleangel said:
> 
> 
> > I've already watched the original Fullmetal Alchemist.
> ...




Well, Brotherhood *is* based almost exactly on the original source material  definitely leagues better than the first anime series, absolutely. Everything about it is top notch, I'd recommend it to anyone.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> have you thought about the TH-600?


 
  I just ordered a pair from Justin at Headamp after he brought them out to the Dallas meet. Plan on getting some good quality COD time when they show up.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> I just ordered a pair from Justin at Headamp after he brought them out to the Dallas meet. Plan on getting some good quality COD time when they show up.


 
   
  I'm interested in TH600 impressions.


----------



## minion1990

pietcux said:


> [SIZE=11pt][COLOR=1F497D]Hi again,[/COLOR][/SIZE]
> [SIZE=11pt][COLOR=1F497D]here comes the next question. This is a big discussion on HeadFi.org.  When DHT v4 is activated for headphone use, does Windows or the running application send real 5.1 or 7.1 to the sound processor ? Or does it only provide stereo information that is kind of processed to sound like surround.[/COLOR][/SIZE]
> [SIZE=11pt][COLOR=1F497D]So is it real multi-channel information or only stereo the basis for what DHT v4 sends to the headphone? That is very important for a lot of FPS gamers out on HeadFi.org and elsewhere.  And the new interface tells us nothing about what’s going on behind the curtain…[/COLOR][/SIZE]
> [SIZE=11pt][COLOR=1F497D]Please clarify[/COLOR][/SIZE]
> ...




Sooo-is it real virtual surround?
What does "*discrete* multichannel audio" mean...


----------



## benbenkr

Tried Razer surround and to be honest, being that it is free... it actually is pretty, decent.
  Not as immersive as DH though and the added bass boost doesn't sound natural, suggest to keep it off. But positional cues are actually pretty okay, didn't took too long for my ears to adjust to where sounds are coming from.
   
  Otherwise, on a whim where one doesn't have DH or SBX Surround, or any other HRTF tech then Razer's isn't really that bad.


----------



## Chubtoad

Would the M50s be a good fit for the PS vita? basically looking for something to take as a portable solution which doesnt require an amp, and the M50s get so much praise. I dont like ear piece style headphones so looking for an actual headphone. It would either be M50s or something like an AD700 since it doesnt require an amp either. Looking for suggestions on those 2 pairs or something similar.
   
   
   
  BTW I absolutely LOVE my Annies/Asgard 2 setup, It's just awesome playing games with them now, I can't believe how good they are lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The M50 is great for that. I still think it's awkwardly big for portable use, but if you don't mind big-ish headphones for portable use, shoot. It's a great headphone. I think the Creative Aurvana Live is also another alternative, and is a smaller headphone too. The cable isn't huge either. I'd go with that instead. Bigger soundstage and super soft pads. It's about $100 less too, and they're actually comparable in technical prowess. The M50 has a better build quality though.

Just wanna say my stepfather has both in my mother's house and I listen to them on occasion. They're both still wonderful to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SWEET! Just got my Xonar U3.

It has something that is VERY, VERY important, and I didn't even realize it had. The headphone jack also doubles as an SPDIF out! the signal carries Dolby Headphone, meaning I can use my Compass 2 as the DAC and amp!! Hell, I could set it to send Dolby Digital Live, and I could use my Mixamp if I wanted to! Not that I need it as The U3 IS basically a Mixamp, but I can at least test out the differences in DH between the two.

Reading a review, it seems to be an external version of the Xonar DG. Interedasting!

edit: hmm, it's skipping the audio through my Compass 2, so I'm not positive it will work like I intended it to. We'll see. I'm sure the settings are effed, atm.


----------



## SatrDrive

Hello,
  I'm new to headphones and I have a question:
   
  Currently I've got a *Creative X-Fi Soundblaster Titanium *(about 50€) which supports CMSS-3D Virtual Surround. 
  If I want to get a *Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (250**Ω)*, will it run fine if I get an Amp but no DAC? I read a lot about this but this topic really confuses me. I was thinking about an *Fiio **QOGIR E09K*. Will it be sufficient? I don't want to spend more money than 250€ for the Beyers(160€), Amp and all the other stuff together. Maybe you have other recommendations concerning Headphones and Amps for me. I'll probably need to get a microphone too. I'm from Europe, Austria.
Currently I've got a Turtle Beach X41 headset + station plugged in the optical of my soundcard and I'm using the bypass function to get a bit of surround sound. I use them mostly for competetive gaming (50%), the rest is music of all kinds, videos and immersive gaming experiences.
   
I hope someone can clarify this to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your soundcard IS a DAC. I dunno if that card bypasses the CMSS-3D processing through it's optical out, which would then benefit from a legit dac, but if it doesn't, you could use the soundcard as a pre-amp to the E9K, to power the DT990 pro. Either way, the headphones are solid, as is the E9K. Ask Nameless or the others on his guide, which they are a LOT more knowledgeable on the soundcard part of this.


----------



## SatrDrive

So this basically means, if CMSS-3D gets bypassed optical I need to get an DAC for virtual surround or a 3.5mm headphone that works without an amp, right?
  I saw some 3.5mm-input amps I could probably put between the soundcard and the dt990s, but will they be fitting?
  Also thanks for the fast reply, I really appreciate the headphone list you made 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, ideally you don't need anything but your soundcard, and just plug in the headphones. But since we here tend to use headphones that benefit from beefier amps, we tend to attach amps. I dunno how good your soundcard is at powering headphones. The 990 Pro needs at least an entry level desktop amp for power. The soundcard will do surround processing directly to the headphone, you just may not be dricving it properly.

Lots of soundcards don't bypass the surround audio through the optical out. Like I said, ask on the Nameless Pc guide (linked on the first page here). They can help you out better.


----------



## Chubtoad

Thanks, I'll check out the creative headphones and see what kind of pricing I can find


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ARGH, so it's not the U3 that is the problem, it's my Compass 2! I fed the SPDIF signal to the Mixamp to see if the audio skips... nope. It plays perfectly fine. So it looks like my Compass 2 just won't play nice with the U3's optical out capabilities. What. This sucks. I wanted to use my Compass 2 as my DAC and AMP while being fed from the U3's spdif out (to pass Dolby headphone on to the Compass 2). Ah well...

Tried Mirror's Edge, and DH doesn't seem as good as the Mixamp, so I'm gonna have to do some tweaking. I was afraid of that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> Hello,
> I'm new to headphones and I have a question:
> 
> Currently I've got a *Creative X-Fi Soundblaster Titanium *(about 50€) which supports CMSS-3D Virtual Surround.
> ...


 
  The Fiio E09K should work just fine plugged into the line-out/headphone output jack on the Titanium sound card.
  The Titanium does come with a fairly decent DAC chip (CS4385?)
   
  And the E09K should easily drive the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.
   
  GAME ON!
   
  In the future you can always swap out the Titanium (non-HD) for the Titanium HD, as the Titanium HD comes with a better DAC and op-amps.
  You would plug the E09K into the Titanium HD's RCA outputs (which can pass headphone surround sound).
  And make a few dollars selling off the Titanium (non-HD).


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





minion1990 said:


> Sooo-is it real virtual surround?
> What does "*discrete* multichannel audio" mean...


 
  It means that all available channels are processed autonomous, not mixed in a matrix stereo signal and then recalculated as the first Dolby implementations like Dolby Surround did 30 years ago before we got the processing power to go DIGITAL.


----------



## SatrDrive

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The Fiio E09K should work just fine plugged into the line-out/headphone output jack on the Titanium sound card.
> The Titanium does come with a fairly decent DAC chip (CS4385?)
> 
> And the E09K should easily drive the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.


 
  Do you think there is a cheaper amp than the E09K which will power the headphones about nearly as well? Because 105€ is quite on the budget limit.
   
   
  Great sound is essential for me, so *I really want to thank you, Envy and Nameless for all your help!*


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> Do you think there is a cheaper amp than the E09K which will power the headphones about nearly as well? Because 105€ is quite on the budget limit.
> Great sound is essential for me, so *I really want to thank you, Envy and Nameless for all your help!*


 
  The PAV2V (Personal amp. 2 version 2) headphone amplifier sells for $66.30 (51 Euros?), on eBay.
  It works off batteries or an AC adapter.


----------



## SatrDrive

What do you think of the Bravo Audio V2, which is a tube amp? Sells at about 55€ in Germany.
  I've heard some people prefer tube amps and I think I read about the DT990 to work especially well with tubes.
   
  Edit: Just read they aren't good quality.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> What do you think of the Bravo Audio V2, which is a tube amp? Sells at about 55€ in Germany.
> I've heard some people prefer tube amps and I think I read about the DT990 to work especially well with tubes.
> 
> Edit: Just read they aren't good quality.


 
  I've use a few of those type tube amps. for the price they are a good value.
  And they would work well with 250-Ohm headphones.
  Some of those types of tube amplifiers come with two small screws for balancing and fine tuning the voltage.
  Requires a Digital Multi-meter (DT830, $7).
   
  But the PAV2V would be easier to use, so maybe get the PAV2V for now (or Fiio E9 or E09K).
  Down the line buy a tube amplifier when you become a headphone hobbyest.


----------



## Evshrug

Oooooooh... So much catch-up reading.
The Razer Surround seems interesting, I'll try out the calibrated version and play some Tomb Raider. The generic demo sounded pretty good even with my Q701 just plugged into my (low battery) iPad, though I'm getting the "indistinct rear cues" that Mad gets with THX TSP. Also, it's been like... 2 weeks? 3? since I last used headphone surround, so it's almost startling.

I think I'm going to pick up a pair of V-MODA M-100. Purely cuz I've been offered a really deep discount, I could use a "fun" closed headphone i can take outside in my lineup, and I think it would be cool to make a clan logo and get it engraved on the shields, just in case I ever go to a tourney or LAN event. It could happen XD. I'll let you guys know if it's "fun, immersive" character is too much a detriment to surround and concentration for competitiveness.

New job has been great, I think I'll finally move into an apartment very soon. Can't wait to play my games on the big plasma TV again, hook up the home theater ^_^


----------



## Evshrug

satrdrive said:


> What do you think of the Bravo Audio V2, which is a tube amp? Sells at about 55€ in Germany.
> I've heard some people prefer tube amps and I think I read about the DT990 to work especially well with tubes.
> 
> Edit: Just read they aren't good quality.




The Bravo is what I'd like to think of as an "introduction to tubes" amp. The "Indeed" brand is essentially the same amp with slightly better parts, I'd recommend that one. I say "intro" amp because you'll probably be quite pleased at first, especially if you swap (roll) different tubes and play around that way, but eventually the crazy volume gain and cheapo build quality will annoy you, and the amp will probably fail within a year or two.

I personally skipped to a bit more expensive amp that was better built and including better parts, bought a few New Old Stock tubes. It is my favorite amp, really seems to help mids become magical while also increasing the perception of soundstage size and distinctness, which obviously is a benefit with Headphone Surround gaming. I've debated on lending it to Mad a few times, but I don't want to burden him with surprise responsibility, and he wasn't particularly happy with his last Tube amp experience.


----------



## Chubtoad

Ok, from a quick search I found these 2 prices. Note there CDN pricing so probably differ from USD and I haven't checked any US sites yet.
   
  M50 - $143.43 + shipping
  Creative Aurvana Live - $112.00 + free shipping
   
  So theres about a $30 difference between the two sets.


----------



## drm870

I just was watching the latest episode of Revision 3's "HD Nation", and I saw that this guide is mentioned near the end! Congrats, Mad Lust Envy.


----------



## kellte2

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=605116&page=100000

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Astro claims no Xbox one comparability for their current products; claims that they SHOULD be compatible for ps4 (based on current information).

I think the Xbox one controller directly outputs 5.1 sound, but would likely require some adapter to use a conventional headphone. That information has not yet been detailed by Microsoft.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> It sounds pretty good! I'll be giving it a try since I don't have any DH stuff on my pc. By the way, it's "free" for a whole year, correct?


 
   
  I believe the software is a free license if you get it now, and then starting Jan 1 anyone who wants a license at that point will have to shell out $20.


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=605116&page=100000
> 
> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Astro claims no Xbox one comparability for their current products; claims that they SHOULD be compatible for ps4 (based on current information).
> 
> I think the Xbox one controller directly outputs 5.1 sound, but would likely require some adapter to use a conventional headphone. That information has not yet been detailed by Microsoft.


 
  thats kind of crappy, i suppose they will have to come up with a new mixamp then?


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> thats kind of crappy, i suppose they will have to come up with a new mixamp then?


 
   
  If Microsoft allows Astro a license, then yeah, likely a new mixamp.

 Turtle Beach is already licensed to make new headsets for Xbox One.
   
  EDIT: Looks like PS4 will be using a 3.5mm connection on the controller for voice chat, according to these pictures:
   

   

   
  But I think Sony will also have support for voice chat through USB, like the PS3 does.... they aren't total ******* like Microsoft


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One more for simplicity.


----------



## Kamakahah

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10823&cs_id=1082302&p_id=10243&seq=1&format=2
   

  I've been eyeing these for about a month now. They are set to release on July 4th I think. I don't think they are going to be some grand revelation, but I can't help but be curious about them.
   
  The features are nice: Very portable when folded, comes with 3 detachable cables, looks big enough to be comfy, singe 50mm woofer and 3x 13mm tweaters in each ear. 
   
  At $60 shipped I might have to pioneer this one out of pure curiosity.


----------



## Nekrono

Guys I'm trying out the Razer Surround program, I've already calibrated it but I'm wondering what I should set my games sound setting to? Stereo or Surround?


----------



## pietcux

Surround if possible. Most of my games don't have such setting.


----------



## chicolom

Looks like the PS4 takes a universal 4-pole headset plug and also comes with a simple headset with an inline mic and a single ear-bud. 
  
  Sounds a lot better than Microsoft's proprietary jack BS.  I'm not going to use some crappy Microsoft licensed Turtle Beach headset when I've got perfectly good audiophile headphones and a modmic.  Maybe someone will release some kind of adapter, but regardless it's a greedy move for Microsoft to make.
   
  I thought we would be done with the need to plug any cables directly into the controller by this console generation?
   


Spoiler: Xbox%20One%20Controller


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> Surround if possible. Most of my games don't have such setting.


 
   
  Most Games read out the Windows speaker setting and set the middleware according to it.


----------



## pietcux

But how can I set windows 7 to use 7.1 while using a usb soundcard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

drm870 said:


> I just was watching the latest episode of Revision 3's "HD Nation", and I saw that this guide is mentioned near the end! Congrats, Mad Lust Envy.




It puts a smile to my face to see that the thread is getting more and more exposure. 

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Kamakahah

Gratz on the mention. Lots of good information to be had on this thread. 

Tried the Razor Surround software out. Everything installed smoothly. Easy setup. 
It works. Played some CS:GO with it and enjoyed the change. Takes some getting use to as I normally just play in stereo. 

I'll give it some more time tomorrow on Metro Last Light and see how it fairs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its okay. The rear positional cues sounds too much like the front positional cues. DH and THX Tru Studio make the distinction quite a bit better to me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

E17 or E12 for the Mixamp for the case I feel a headphone needs a bit more power?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

E12, if you already have a DAC for music purposes). The E12 is a lot more powerful. E17 if you don't have a DAC.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, it's just for the Mixamp and gaming alone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then E12, for sure. I dunno how much gain the E12 puts out though. The SA-31 is probably the most powerful amp I've seen, and yet the gain wasn't high. You might be better off with an actual desktop amp like the Magni. It's really small, and has plenty of gain.


----------



## kellte2

chicolom said:


> Looks like the PS4 takes a universal 4-pole headset plug and also comes with a simple headset with an inline mic and a single ear-bud.
> 
> 
> Sounds a lot better than Microsoft's proprietary jack BS.  I'm not going to use some crappy Microsoft licensed Turtle Beach headset when I've got perfectly good audiophile headphones and a modmic.  Maybe someone will release some kind of adapter, but regardless it's a greedy move for Microsoft to make.
> ...


The controller directly outputs 5.1 supposedly. That said, most of our headphones need an extra amp, so I can't imagine this being a viable solution for the audiophile crowd.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm really irritated that my Compass 2 doesn't wanna play nice with the U3's optical out, but something as cheap as the Mixamp has no such problem. Here I thought my days of double amping were over....

So running the SPDIF from the U3 to the Mixamp and switching to DH2 on the U3 and then the Mixamp's DH, they don't sound the same. Clearly.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Then E12, for sure. I dunno how much gain the E12 puts out though. The SA-31 is probably the most powerful amp I've seen, and yet the gain wasn't high. You might be better off with an actual desktop amp like the Magni. It's really small, and has plenty of gain.


 
   
  yeah but it means having to use and guide one more cable (power) and since I game on the couch far away from my desktop I prefer having everything portable (+the Mixamp is the wireless version) else I would use my V200. 
   
  Hopefully Astro manges to bring a PS4/Xbox One Mixamp that supports DTS and has a better SQ. Or we write a petition to KingWa or FiiO. ^_^


----------



## kellte2

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> yeah but it means having to use and guide one more cable (power) and since I game on the couch far away from my desktop I prefer having everything portable (+the Mixamp is the wireless version) else I would use my V200.
> 
> Hopefully Astro manges to bring a PS4/Xbox One Mixamp that supports DTS and has a better SQ. Or we write a petition to KingWa or FiiO. ^_^


 
   
  How much more do you want from the mixamp.  Videogames always will have more compression in their audio than audiophile level music (usually lossless encoding).  That's just the nature of the format.  Dolby Headphone has its limitations, but it works as good or better than the competitors.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Compare the SQ on a good soundcard like the STX/ZXR during gaming with a Mixamp. The difference is enormous on _every_ level. DTS is less compressed than AC3 and there's plenty of room for Astrogaming to improve on the SQ.
   
  Furthermore: Audio samples keep getting better. Compare Thief 3 (2004), Fear 1 (2005), Bioshock 1/2 (2007/8) on maximum with Battlefield 3 for instance. We're still talking about current gen. With the new consoles memory and storage limitations (Xbox 360 and DVD 




) reach a much higher level. Quite a few PS3 games already have plenty of good quality samples. As you can see, there's plenty to improve.
   
KIllzone Shadow Fall uses 553MB of RAM just for the sound btw (current build).


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Looks like the PS4 takes a universal 4-pole headset plug and also comes with a simple headset with an inline mic and a single ear-bud.
> 
> Sounds a lot better than Microsoft's proprietary jack BS.  I'm not going to use some crappy Microsoft licensed Turtle Beach headset when I've got perfectly good audiophile headphones and a modmic.  Maybe someone will release some kind of adapter, but regardless it's a greedy move for Microsoft to make.
> 
> ...



Well, if there was a Mixamp-esque DAC/amp that could get a direct digital surround audio feed (and mic in) from the controller, instead of the current system of tons of long wires and kind of a kludge-together system we could have a potentially streamlined, wireless (from console) surround sound setup. Kind of like what Astro was going for with their wireless 5.8 system. It's a new connection, true, but it may be a good thing.

This may spark a debate, but I think gamers need to re-evaluate DRM. We have this super negative impression of DRM from the early days of digital music, the super heavy-handed reaction of the music industry to the admittedly rampant free downloading. The usage limits and SONY rootkits embedded in their CDs were bad, but today I don't have hardly any trouble with iTunes music and Steam. On some level I can appreciate DRM, cuz I don't want people taking my work for free. Maybe I would be more adamant about what form the DRM takes if I wasn't a collector (hoarder?) and I wanted to sell off a game after beating it, but maybe there should be a rental option for those people?

I don't know much about the final specs of the Xbox One, but it seems like we don't have all the details yet and some parts are in flux anyway. It does seem poorly positioned though, kinda as if the Microsoft DNA is seeping into the gaming department.





mad lust envy said:


> Then E12, for sure. I dunno how much gain the E12 puts out though. The SA-31 is probably the most powerful amp I've seen, and yet the gain wasn't high. You might be better off with an actual desktop amp like the Magni. It's really small, and has plenty of gain.



The E12 has a 0dB low gain setting (that can be cranked up past line-level I believe), and a +16dB high gain setting. It can drive my headphones scary loud if you turn it up on high gain.


----------



## Kamakahah

Spoiler: Cable%20%26%20Plug






   
  Well MLE, its finally all here.
   
  How happy are you with your current cable btw?


----------



## AxelCloris

To those who are trying out different cables for the X1, should you need an inline mic MEElectronics posted this earlier today. Available for $10.
   

   
  I'm a bit sad that the 90 degree head is on the TRRS end and not on the TRS. Oh well. Won't work well with some headphones but may work wonders with the X1.
   
Link


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kamakahah said:


> Spoiler: Cable & Plug
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I think I'm gonna return the expensive cable for the X1, stick with the Mediabridge cable, and with that money, buy a Fiio D03K SPDIF dac to feed to my Compass 2, and see if the Xonar U3 will give it a good signal, since the Compass 2's dac won't play nice with the U3.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think I'm gonna return the expensive cable for the X1, stick with the Mediabridge cable...


 
   
  What is it that you didn't like about it? Is it that it wasn't much of a difference (sound wise) between the two?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> What is it that you didn't like about it? Is it that it wasn't much of a difference (sound wise) between the two?




Oh, it's a great cable. But after tax and insurance, it was nearly $40. The Mediabridge cable cost me like $8, same length, same resistance, and is easier to manage. That, and there isn't much 'bling' factor with the Pipeline as it's black anyways. I probably should look into that other cable you posted, though it's short. My computer desk should be here any day now, and so I won't need a really long cable.


Oh, I just saw, the Xonar U3 has a terribly high 23ohm output impedance, so you'd definitely do yourself a favor by attaching an amp or a dac to it to bypass driving the headphones directly with it. It made the X1 sound pretty bright, when compared to the Mixamp. (did A/B comparison, and the U3's headphone out was NOT good for the X1).

This sucks, as I plan on using it with the KSC35 at work... but now, I'm not so sure I wanna do that, at least unless I get a portable amp or something. I might just contact JR and return it and stick to my Recon 3Di. It's become a hassle at this point. PC external devices are so problematic... I rather not deal with a mess of stuff hooked up to my laptop just to get good sound.

it would be:

Laptop -> U3 -> Fiio D03K -> Compass 2 (3 external devices tethered)

Or at work:

Laptop: U3 -> Fiio E17 (the cheapest spdif dac/amp I know of) (2 devices tethered, and expensive).


I rather just deal with THX Tru Studio and the 10ohm output impedance of my laptop's jack at work, and attaching my Compass 2 at home.


----------



## Change is Good

I swear curiosity is going to be the end of my wallet. Anyone here have any impressions with the HE500 for gaming?
   
  I absolutely love the X1, but I have to be honest... it's a bit too much bass for my taste when gaming. It sometimes gets in the way of my chat sessions during chaotic moments on BF3. The researching task starts yet again... *sigh*
   
  Edit: If things don't pan out I might just have to go back to my beloved Annies....


----------



## mbyrnes

I am starting to wonder if Astro could release a mixamp that uses HDMI. That way we could get the best audio. DTS Headphone X uses the DTS-HD bitstream for its signal. I would imagine this is a huge improvement over Dolby Headphone we have now. I don't know if Dolby Headphone can utilize the HD signal. 
   
  Game audio can certainly get better. If my surround system has lossless audio, I would like that with my headphones as well. Give me the chance and I will pay a good bit for that luxury!


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> I swear curiosity is going to be the end of my wallet. Anyone here have any impressions with the HE500 for gaming?
> 
> I absolutely love the X1, but I have to be honest... it's a bit too much bass for my taste when gaming. It sometimes gets in the way of my chat sessions during chaotic moments on BF3. The researching task starts yet again... *sigh*
> 
> Edit: If things don't pan out I might just have to go back to my beloved Annies....


 
   
  Which headphones did you try out so far? What is your budget?
   
  I had the HE-500 for several hundred hours and still remember them very fondly for their musical joy but I never liked them for gaming. The same applies to other planars like LCD-2 and HE-400, even though from certain technical points (fast decay, bass reproduction etc.) they have everything. However they lack the necessary imaging capabilites and the rendering of the soundstage. Some people don't care about this for Singleplayer and just want the immersive tonality but I myself can't accept this.
   
  In that case for instance the T1, D7000 fare very well both as gaming headphones and for music. From what I gathered (didn't listen however so don't take this as experience) the TH-600 seems to vaguely be along the lines of the D7000. At pricejapan you can get them cheaper than regular.
   
  What do you not like about the Annies? What made you switch to the X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If he thought the X1 had too much bass, not sure he'd appreciate something like the D7000 with it's even more omnipotent bass (though more ambient than immediate).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hm, I still have the Sig DJ and its subwoofer bass hits very hard yet compared to the X1 it stays less long and drowns out less while also being less "one-noty". That's what I didn't like about the X1.
   
   think the D7000 while still being bassy does it better than the X1 but that's out of memory. Since you know the D7000 better maybe my recommendation doesn't really  help him either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, you're right. The bass hits hard on lower notes, and doesn't hamper the mids nearly as much. The X1 is more one-note-ish and less textured by a stretch.


----------



## Chubtoad

Hey MLE would you still choose the Creative Aurvana Lives over the M50 if the price difference was only $30?

Pretty much for Cdn pricing its 120 vs 150 price wise. Sucks because I see amazon USA selling the creative for 59.99 but they won't ship to my address even though it lets me set up an international account. I don't understand why they let you set up an account if you can't use it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love both. For gaming, I'd choose the CAL every time. The M50 is 2 dimensional next to the CAL. The M50 has a more aggressive sound, while the CAL has a softer, warmer sound, but still very fun. You can basically consider the CAL a baby fostex. A little sibling to the Denons of old.


----------



## Vader2k

Hey MLE, I know it happened a few weeks ago, but I'm really sorry to hear your Marantz died on you.  Mine has been having an ongoing problem with the right channel not receiving signal (over speakers and headphones), resulting in me not being able to use my Annies with it until its fixed.  Having mine partially out of commission has been hard enough; I can only imagine how frustrating it was to have the whole thing die.  Do you think you'll try to repair or replace it?
   
  Anyway, if I remember correctly, your receiver died before you got the X1s, so you didn't get a chance to use them with it, right?  I'm just curious how you think the X1s would do off the Marantz, being that they're lower impedance cans and all?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I gave it up. My stepfather tried to see what's wrong, but couldn't figure it out. I already purchased a Mixamp, so I don't have any intention on paying to fix it now.

From what I could remember, it didn't do much to negatively impact headphones I hooked up to it, though I wasn't too worried about that with the AKGs and Planars (which both didn't really get affected by output impedance in general). The X1 definitely does alter it's response with high output impedances judging what I could hear of it with the Xonar U3 (made the treble quite bright). Once I hooked the Compass 2 to the 3.5mm jack on the U3 (with analog cables, not spdif) and the X1 to the Compass 2, everything sounded normal.

I dunno what kind of output impedance the Marantz has though.

I decided on sticking with the U3. I'll just leave it attached to my USB hub at home to use for gaming, and just use my soundcard when I'm at work.


----------



## Vader2k

Bummer, sucks that it's life is over. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Yeah, I've never really found a solid answer on the Marantz's output impedance.  All Marantz tech support ever told me was a vague "it's powerful enough to drive any headphone" comment.  Like you said, it's not a prob with the Annies.  
   
  I'm becoming increasingly curious to try out the X1s, but if they'll be altered by the likely higher impedance of the receiver, then I'd rather not.  I still have the Mixamp, but I'm trying to move away from that and primarily use the receiver, especially due to the low-end freq clip on the Mixamp.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, the D7k might be too much for my taste... plus I'd rather have an open headphone for gaming. I think I'm just going to go with the Annies, again, and hope for the best.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If he thought the X1 had too much bass, not sure he'd appreciate something like the D7000 with it's even more omnipotent bass (though more ambient than immediate).


 
   
  The Annies were perfect for my gaming purposes, actually. I came across a bass rattle for the second time (first time with the Q701) so that is what made me switch to the X1.
   
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Which headphones did you try out so far? What is your budget?
> 
> I had the HE-500 for several hundred hours and still remember them very fondly for their musical joy but I never liked them for gaming. The same applies to other planars like LCD-2 and HE-400, even though from certain technical points (fast decay, bass reproduction etc.) they have everything. However they lack the necessary imaging capabilites and the rendering of the soundstage. Some people don't care about this for Singleplayer and just want the immersive tonality but I myself can't accept this.
> 
> ...


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> Hello,
> I'm new to headphones and I have a question:
> 
> Currently I've got a *Creative X-Fi Soundblaster Titanium *(about 50€) which supports CMSS-3D Virtual Surround.
> ...


 


 I run a Titanium with the "play stereo mix through digital out" option flipped on to mirror the virtual surround over the optical out when the audio device is set to the speaker (not the SPDIF!) out. I run the digital out to a FiiO amp (E17) and that goes to my Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros. Works great, just make sure your speaker config in Windows is set to 7.1, but you have the creative panel speakers setting set to headphones, and after that is changed you have the CMSS-3D box checked.

 I could always take a few pictures for you if you'd like.
   
  I know the E09K actually has higher output impedance than their portable amps, not sure if that would matter on your 250ohm 990s but I know it makes a big difference on my picky 80ohm 770 Pros. As for mics, I have an Antlion ModMic that works wonderfully. They may be out of stock at the moment, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It shouldnt as the 770/80s are 8x the the impedance of the Fiio E9k, which is the sweet spot. The 250ohm will be more than fine out of the E9K.


----------



## cbristol802

I'm hoping to pick up a pair of headphones for gaming and for listening to hip-hop, rap, beatstrumentals, etc. I like the Q701's but have not purchased them because of the comments that the bass and sub-bass are recessed. I'm not looking for Sony XB territory, just something that will pair well with those genres and be decent for gaming.  Any advice would be great.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





cbristol802 said:


> I'm hoping to pick up a pair of headphones for gaming and for listening to hip-hop, rap, beatstrumentals, etc. I like the Q701's but have not purchased them because of the comments that the bass and sub-bass are recessed. I'm not looking for Sony XB territory, just something that will pair well with those genres and be decent for gaming.  Any advice would be great.


 
  Perhaps consider the Philips Fidelio X1 or HiFiMan HE-400


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

cbristol802 said:


> I'm hoping to pick up a pair of headphones for gaming and for listening to hip-hop, rap, beatstrumentals, etc. I like the Q701's but have not purchased them because of the comments that the bass and sub-bass are recessed. I'm not looking for Sony XB territory, just something that will pair well with those genres and be decent for gaming.  Any advice would be great.




Fidelio X1 as it's relatively easy to drive. It's made for your genres of music. The mid-fi epitome of all rounder with a lean towards bass, but not overly so. The X1 has overtaken the HE-400 for me in everything but refinement. And basically renders the DT990 obsolete, unless you absolutely can't afford the price jump (and you all know how much I enjoy the 990s).

K702 Anniversary if you want more balance but still good bass. The mid-fi epitome of all rounder with a touch of warmth and smoothness.

Those will probably forever be my top two recommendations that don't break the bank (by Head-fi standards).

I'm sorry the X1 review isn't up (guys have to give me some time, as I'm still testing them). It should hopefully be up this coming week. Sneak preview on the scores (not final but should be close to what it will be)

Fun: 9, Competitive: 8, Comfort: 9.5


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm sorry the X1 review isn't up (guys have to give me some time, as I'm still testing them). It should hopefully be up this coming week. Sneak preview on the scores (not final but should be close to what it will be)
> 
> Fun: 9, Competitive: 8, Comfort: 9.5


 
   
  My review will be up today, I'm formatting the post right now.
   
  The only thing  I would change about those scores is raising the competitive score a bit, as when comparing back and forth with the Anniversary I feel they're pretty close.


----------



## Change is Good

I actually agree with Mad's competitive score for the X1. Yes, the soundstage is about on par with the Annies... but the bass gets in the way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not completely in love with the X1's positional cues. I dunno if it's the fact that I haven't been playing console games lately and I've been testing it with THX TS and the PC's Dolby Headphone, but I feel like it doesn't have the best rear cues, certainly not Annie level. More along the likes of 990 level.

Also, not that it's unexpected, but it doesn't have the same level of refinement as the Annie and HE400, and the bass isn't as clean as I would've liked and come across lacking in texture and control. Then there is the fact that the treble can be fatiguing at times. Was playing DMC and it did grate on me at times. Same when I watched some anime with it.

The X1 isn't completely inoffensive, nor perfect. Far more likes than gripes, but gripes I certainly have.


----------



## chicolom

The bass can get in the way, but IMO the soundstage and imaging is slightly _better _than the Anniversaries in-game, so it counteracts things a bit.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The bass can get in the way, but IMO the soundstage and imaging is slightly _better _than the Anniversaries in-game, so it counteracts things a bit.


 
   
  Oh, I don't disagree with you, I was amazed at how the X1 was able to pull such a thing off. However, try riding in a tank on BF3 with all that bass on the X1


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Oh, I don't disagree with you, I was amazed at how the X1 was able to pull such a thing off. However, try riding in a tank on BF3 with all that bass on the X1


 
   
  Ya, I do remember standing to next to some type of "generator" in a game and it was rumbling a bit too much.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Has anyone tried using a bass-reducing EQ with them?


----------



## SniperCzar

Sounds like a lot of the complaints about my beloved 770 Pros. Slap a bass reducing EQ on em and go nuts.


----------



## Change is Good

I ordered the Annies with Saturday shipping, yesterday, and they just arrived. I almost forgot how wonderful these babies sound... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Oh, how I missed them so much.
   
  I'm scared to do a bass frequency test, though...


----------



## cbristol802

Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards the X1's. I found them for $300 at Sonic Electronix, and if yoou buy them from your phone and use the code SEMOBILE10, you get 10% off. Is $270 as cheap as you've seen the X1s or should I wait for a better sale?


----------



## Kamakahah

cbristol802 said:


> Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards the X1's. I found them for $300 at Sonic Electronix, and if yoou buy them from your phone and use the code SEMOBILE10, you get 10% off. Is $270 as cheap as you've seen the X1s or should I wait for a better sale?




I've been looking for an excuse to buy and try the X1, so price monitoring is one thing I've been doing. $270 is the lowest I've seen outside of the sale forum (one sold for $250).

As long as shipping is free or low cost, then that's a deal. Sure they'll go down in the future, and probably be on sale come November, but if you don't want to wait months then "do it".


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I'm scared to do a bass frequency test, though...


 
   
  You could always just not do the test.  Outside of the isolated tests I don't think I would ever notice it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sniperczar said:


> Sounds like a lot of the complaints about my beloved 770 Pros. Slap a bass reducing EQ on em and go nuts.




The problem isn't how bassy it is. It's nowhere near as bassy as the 770/80s. It's that the bass sounds like it was tuned at the driver's limit with no headroom. Almost like if you try to boost it, it'd probably be a mess.

The end result is fine, and I'm sure many wouldn't even notice it, but it's simply not close to the best quality of bass I've heard.

I'm, not saying this to turn anyone off. Every headphone has things here or there that aren't perfect. The quantity of bass is lovely, but I wish it had a more control and refinement behind it. The Pro 900 has considerably stronger bass, and is in complete control of all of it.

Again, that's a small gripe. That does nothing to make me dislike the X1 in any shape or form. It's clearly my fave mid-tier headphone next to the Annies.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey MLE,
   
  is the TH-600 from Pricejapan in your budget? "Unfortunately" I don't live in the US, else I would have sent you some of my headphones from time to time to review but in this case I am curious about how a DH-7000 lover will feel about them.


----------



## chicolom

The* Philips Fidelio X1 Review* is live:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison
  Please enjoy.


----------



## daleb

Okay, I just watched Man of Steel, and I still can not see how you guys say theatres have good audio. I have yet to hear a theatre do it right. Gladly, the problem with this one was a lack of bass, meaning the problem wasn't painful, its just the sound wouldn't put you in awe.


----------



## modulor

If you've ever had the chance to watch a full release in an IMAX theatre, well...then you'll know.  Anyone who needs to be fully immersed in a movie visually and auditorily can and will justify the extra cost of seeing it in an IMAX theatre.  I've also been in single screen theatre that used fold out chairs (middle of nowhere in Pa.) so you can only imagine how bad that sounded.


----------



## foreign

Has anyone tried hd650 for gaming? I'm thinking about buying them. I've got the pc360 which is great for gaming. The 360s have nice balance good soundstage. I'm primarily buying the hd650 for music as the 360s bass is very neutral great for gaming and vocals but not for a lot of different music genres. I have a asus stx soundcard just worried that the stx won't drive the hd650s properly.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





modulor said:


> If you've ever had the chance to watch a full release in an IMAX theatre, well...then you'll know.  Anyone who needs to be fully immersed in a movie visually and auditorily can and will justify the extra cost of seeing it in an IMAX theatre.  I've also been in single screen theatre that used fold out chairs (middle of nowhere in Pa.) so you can only imagine how bad that sounded.


 
  I'd love to go to an Imax theatre, but the only one I've ever been to was when I was much younger, and we don't live anywhere near it anymore. Also, it was Superman Returns, so... the experience wasn't all that great....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Has anyone tried hd650 for gaming?


 
   
  Umm...the OP?


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I'd love to go to an Imax theatre, but the only one I've ever been to was when I was much younger, and we don't live anywhere near it anymore. Also, it was Superman Returns, so... the experience wasn't all that great....


 
  Yeah, I'd say the average theatre probably isn't all that great - there is an AMC near me and while a bit more expensive, it does sound the best of the major chains I've been to.  Most of the time I go to Regal or Rave Cinemas because they have $5 specials or other random smal theatres...there's alot of options where I am because it's a massive suburban wasteland 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I think the best thing I saw in IMAX was the first J.J Abrams Star Trek...that was pretty spectacular sounding.  Wish I could have done that with the latest one as I liked it better.


----------



## Change is Good

MLE, you were right about the MD and Annies being similar rather than complimentary. I'm going to miss the X1 and its fun signature but the MD is a pretty fun beast, itself. While I like bass, I have learned that I'm not too fond of the V-shaped/U-shaped sound signatures.
   
  I'm actually happier with the combo of the Annies/MD rather than X1/MD.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

When people say movie theatre sound, they're not talking about how refined or true to the source the sound is. They're talking about the immersion, the excitement, the power. As imperfect as theater sound is, it's still sought out at home because it sucks you into the action.

Headphones can be refined and incredibly immersive like the D7000. That's like a good movie theater experience strapped to your head.


----------



## daleb

I have yet to find a theatre do this. I'm assuming Imax does it correctly, but most normal theatres can't make it immersive what so ever. The theatre I went to today made me think of the descriptions of the AD700.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have some horrible theaters then.

Most theaters I go to are like giant XB700s. Lol.


----------



## daleb

The one theatre "nearby" with good bass is about an hour away. The closest theatre to me just turns up the volume to a level thats really painful, the other 2 closest to me have no bass.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Has anyone tried hd650 for gaming? I'm thinking about buying them. I've got the pc360 which is great for gaming. The 360s have nice balance good soundstage. I'm primarily buying the hd650 for music as the 360s bass is very neutral great for gaming and vocals but not for a lot of different music genres. I have a asus stx soundcard just worried that the stx won't drive the hd650s properly.


 
  I had them for about a year. They are good for gaming, I had no problem. Sold them for funding other cans. They are a faster as the AKG fellows like the 701, 702.....


----------



## Thlayli

I've got a question. Does anyone know if the DT 770 are know to have a very bright sound to them? I have a set of MMX 300 which is supposed to be based of the DT770s but it's very bright. Is this normal for a this type of headphone, or is it something to do with my game settings. I've only recently made aware of this when my friend brought to my attention how bright they sound. He said they don't sound like the headphones he has.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





foreign said:


> Has anyone tried hd650 for gaming? I'm thinking about buying them. I've got the pc360 which is great for gaming. The 360s have nice balance good soundstage. I'm primarily buying the hd650 for music as the 360s bass is very neutral great for gaming and vocals but not for a lot of different music genres. I have a asus stx soundcard just worried that the stx won't drive the hd650s properly.


 
  The Essence STX should have no problem driving 300-Ohm (HD650) headphones.
  Later on you can always get something like the Little Dot MKIII tube amp. and plug it into the STX's RCA output.


----------



## jorgevelez666

Hello i got a question, as anyone tried the new logitech g230 for gaming? and if so, how good/bad they are? thx
   
  PD: i need a low cost headset, only for gaming and i already bought the Asus xonar dgx 5.1 soundcard


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jorgevelez666 said:


> Hello i got a question, as anyone tried the new logitech g230 for gaming? and if so, how good/bad they are? thx
> 
> PD: i need a low cost headset, only for gaming and I already bought the Asus Xonar DGX 5.1 sound card


 
  "headset" with a built in mic?
  or would you be willing to buy a separate headphone and separate mic?


----------



## jorgevelez666

Well if the quality boost is significant i'll go with a headphone


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





jorgevelez666 said:


> Well if the quality boost is significant i'll go with a headphone


 
  For the $50 price range, the Samson SR850 (made by Superlux).


----------



## jorgevelez666

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> For the $50 price range, the Samson SR850 (made by Superlux).


 
  alright, i've already checked some reviews and 50mm drivers OMG! thx a lot *PurpleAngel *


----------



## Sinister596

How similar to the ATH-AD700's are the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition in terms of positional audio and cues? I'm planning on getting new headphones and I'm not sure in choosing between the Annie's and the X1's. They will be plugged into a Xonar STX.


----------



## Fiorini

could someone comment on how the COP's are for gaming (beyerdynamic Custom One Pro)? i really like them but can't find any on the gaming part


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'm sorry the X1 review isn't up (guys have to give me some time, as I'm still testing them). It should hopefully be up this coming week.



*Hurry hurry HURRY!!!* h34r:



daleb said:


> Okay, I just watched Man of Steel, and I still can not see how you guys say theatres have good audio. I have yet to hear a theatre do it right. Gladly, the problem with this one was a lack of bass, meaning the problem wasn't painful, its just the sound wouldn't put you in awe.



I just watched that movie too. The problem wasn't the speaker audio, the problem was the awful blunt screenwriting and shallow antagonists.

Ok, I do mean that seriously, but I understand what you mean about how the theater experience changes once you start paying attention and get used to great audio. Your theater might actually have lost the subwoofers, like listening to home theater towers without a dedicated sub. In my theater, there are a couple screens where it sounds like the bass was boosted just beyond what the driver can handle, and the smaller theater has problems with harsh treble. It hurts man. But when I saw Man of Steel, the soundtrack and cinematography were the best parts of the movie. I think you'll really enjoy the audio once it's available for you to play it from your headphones (if you're interested enough in seeing it again), but I'd advise rental over purchase.

For those who haven't seen Man of Steel... I won't ruin the plot for you. Someone else may even really enjoy it more than I did. It starts strong, addressing the question of "why do we care about a character who is so powerful he could basically do anything?" And yeah, the cinematography & Hanz Zimmer's soundtrack are great! Even the special effects provide scope to the story and some weight to what's happening. IMO, the dialogue was too blunt or clichéd (and when did the military learn about Krypton by name?), and the bad guys aren't interesting like Bane or the Joker from recent DC flicks. That said, ymmv, as you know local theater sound vs headphones, I also experience movie (and game) screenwriting vs literature. Maybe I'm overly critical. I saw Lincoln, and thought "If this guy playing Lincoln was in a debate or at a party, the room wouldn't suddenly stop talking to listen to him." Know the guy who played Obi-Wan in SW: A New Hope? He could speak quietly and still arrest your attention.


----------



## Evshrug

sinister596 said:


> How similar to the ATH-AD700's are the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition in terms of positional audio and cues? I'm planning on getting new headphones and I'm not sure in choosing between the Annie's and the X1's. They will be plugged into a Xonar STX.



Not exactly the same but similar in the grand scope of things, I went from a pair of ATH-AD700 to the AKG Q701 I use now. I was really pleased to pretty much not lose any of that sense of sounds-happening-in-your-room, while also gaining sub-bass extension and a harder-to-identify quality (speed or impact or something) that made music more exciting and beats more likely to get your toes tapping. I kept both headphones at the same time for about 3/4 a year, I found the AD700 a little easier to drive from an amp weaker than your STX and lighter to wear for more hours of play, and I was pretty impressed by their value next to the AKGs, but in the end the AKGs won because they were more fun outside of gaming and are just overall a better headphone. Does my experience answer your question?





fiorini said:


> could someone comment on how the COP's are for gaming (beyerdynamic Custom One Pro)? i really like them but can't find any on the gaming part



I'm not the best to answer, but IIRC those Beyer COP's are basically one of the beyers Mad tested in the guide (DT770?) with extra styling added.


----------



## daleb

I absolutely loved Man of Steel, but they did handle some things incorrectly... It didn't make Superman the ideal we all want to strive for. And the action didn't the correct pacing (It was way too fast, had no beats, no anticipation moments, etc. etc.)  Still, it was a very great movie. I couldn't find anything wrong with the villain. He wasn't outstanding, but he wasn't shallow, especially compared to the average villain out there.
   
  Then again, I'm the worst judge of a movie. I normally hate movies, and I consider a good movie's writing to pale in comparison to a good video game's writing.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, they introduced the idea in the beginning that he could grow up to be an ideal to strive for, and then COLLATERALBATTLEDAMAGEHUUUUR! And why were the bad guys so powerful, if their species become powerful based on becoming stronger by adapting to their environment, and Kal was so strong because he grew up adapting to Earth? I also think they would be more interesting if the audience had a reason to like them or sympathize with them in some way, but even the bad guy leader (Zal?) was a robot.

I just thought the movie could've been much more, and I spent like half an hour discussing how it could've been a better story with my girlfriend afterwards. Maybe Superman has unstoppable brawns, but what about more internal conflict, capitalizing on what it was like to have two dads, maybe have him sympathizing or being tricked by the Kryptonites, really flesh out the "Lead the People by example," why does he care about fitting in with or being accepted by humans if he can easily be "above" them, can Superman really be responsible for saving everyone, etc... There were many pretty great BEGINNINGS of ideas, but the screenwriter (or Zack Snyder) didn't pick one or two to really flesh out and make rich. Besides "You'll never find out how strong you are until you test your limits," basically the movie fell into the "superman trap" during the entire climax where basically Kal had little trouble overcoming any obstacle by flying faster, harder, and being physically stronger. I'd feel super confident having him on my football team, but I think that makes for a boring story.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> Kal had little trouble overcoming any obstacle by flying faster, harder, and being physically stronger


 
  Ah, but that's the entire point. If they are doing it right, Superman doesn't really have any obstacles_ other then hurting the ones around him_. Superman is commonly said by directors/producers to be on of the hardest stories to write for. He is just so hard to get right.
   
  I'd suggest watching the Justice League cartoons. They easily show who superman is meant to be. They constantly show how he truly cares about humanity.
   
  I love this scene, it truly tells you what superman has to deal with.
_"That man _[batman]_ won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break _someone_. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could _die_. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."_
   
  I'm assuming (or hoping) this will be something done in the second movie. I believe their assumption is that Clark isn't Superman, yet. Just someone trying to be a hero. If they fix this one problem for the second movie, it would easily be in my top 3 super hero movies of all time.
   
   
  Edit:
  Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_5UwS57X8
  Plus, they even get the action right. See that pause when he punches Darkseid? THAT IS HOW YOU DO IT.


----------



## calpis

I've been away for far too long...
   
  Read the Mad Dog V3.2 review, I still want a pair in my arsenal. And now an X1 review is coming? Can't wait to give that one a read


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> And now an X1 review is coming? Can't wait to give that one a read


 
   
   
  Here's one you can read in the meantime:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Here's one you can read in the meantime:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison


 
   
  I may have to pick these up with my next paycheck then. It'd be fun to compare these with my 2900's. The MD's will just have to wait.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

please mad-lust-envys i need your help on this, i wud wish you answer as soon as possible, i need your advice on wether getting sennheiser 598 or pc 360, i dont usually use mic, i have a big head, and i would like it for gaming so ( soundstage , clearity , abit bass needed for gaming ) please help !!! any one else plz help too


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

it would be really a dream come true if you can add me on face book am a huge fan and am kinda hopeless since am trying to get a headset i know for a guy like you probably would ignore this but please i wont take much of your time just 5 min max  type Saif.hosam.9@facebook.com on search and you will find me it's ok if u cant tho i understand


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> please mad-lust-envys i need your help on this, i wud wish you answer as soon as possible, i need your advice on wether getting sennheiser 598 or pc 360, i dont usually use mic, i have a big head, and i would like it for gaming so ( soundstage , clearity , abit bass needed for gaming ) please help !!! any one else plz help too




Neither have particularly much bass, but the Pc360 is more balanced, and the 598 is 'clearer'. They're similar sounding though, and if you absolutely need a built in mic, I'd just get the PC360. I'm not a fan of the 598's tonal balance.

Again, bass is not that great on either. I'd personally get the 558 over either of them, as that's a little more enjoyable to me.


----------



## Evshrug

Daleb,
Thanks for the link! And I agree, that is a more compelling superman! They just didn't achieve that balance in the movie IMO though. I was going to say I've seen better dialogue and plot in Saturday morning cartoons, but you proved it for me lol (I was thinking of Batman, the animated series).

SnakeEyes,
No need to be self-depreciating, and it's better to answer a 5 minute question HERE than friending you on Facebook so we can send you embarrassing photos 
Anyway, if you don't use a mic much, then the Pc360 is basically an HD558 without a mic. If you read Mad's guide (first post), you'll see that we'll generally recommend the HD558 FIRST before the HD598, not that the HD598 is bad but the sound signature of the HD558 is a bit more fun to play video games with. I've listened to the HD558 too, and I agree that it's a very great sounding headphone with good headphone surround response, without getting into the more expensive headphones. You can also buy an inexpensive lapel mic, they are just a few bucks but sound better than Microsoft's official headset mic. To complete your setup and really make use of the soundstage the HD558 can offer, I would highly recommend you also get a headphone surround sound processor, like (for consoles) an Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS or DSS2, for PC you should get an internal soundcard or an Asus Xonar U3, or a Creative Recon3D USB to work with any gaming platform.

There will be plenty of "Wow!" moments with that setup.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not for nothing EVS, but the Pc360 is like a 595 with a mic, not the 558, lol.

I find the 558 to be the most musical of the 5** series. I just haven't had an extensive time demoing them, and therefore I couldn't put up a review of it. If someone has a 558 to send me, I'd love to review it. I really like their sound for the price. I just dunno how it performs for gaming, though I expect it to be particularly proficient in positional cues. I know these can be modded like the 555, though I hear it doesn't exactly turn them into 598s. Not that I mind. I'd probably stick to their stock sound.

My Fiio D03K should be here at any moment, and once I have confirmed that the U3 DOES output Dolby Headphone through the spdif signal (I'm 99% sure right now)... there is no reason NOT to get one for PC, as you can feed the signal to a legit audiophile dac and amp... making it the cheapest method of getting Dolby headphone without sacrificing sound quality (allowing you to use your own equipment). If You DID have to use the U3's dac and amp, then yes, it could be better, but since you don't... it's looking pretty attractive atm.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I've seen better dialogue and plot in Saturday morning cartoons


 
  Good cartoons and anime in general do a better job with plot then Hollywood


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Not for nothing EVS, but the Pc360 is like a 595 with a mic, not the 558, lol.
> 
> My Fiio D03K should be here at any moment, ...



XD I stand corrected. Well, I recline corrected, lol.
The D03k is a DAC? Kinda like an E07k without an amp? Maybe I should look into one... Though I'm still thinking I'll eventually have to buy Nameless' Recon3D just so I don't have to plug & unplug a soundcard every time I switch between booting Mac OS X for work & art and Windows for a few hardcore games. Oddly, Steam is working better on the Mac side than in Windows, and downloads via Ethernet are in the Kbps in the afternoon on the windows side.
*shrug*




daleb said:


> Good cartoons and anime in general do a better job with plot then Hollywood



With all the exploration that has come before in cartoons, comics, and even movies, I just don't understand why this one struggles so much. The Hulk movie directed by the same guy who did "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" did a better job with his box office flop (which I actually enjoyed). Well...
*shrug*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> XD I stand corrected. Well, I recline corrected, lol.
> The D03k is a DAC? Kinda like an E07k without an amp? Maybe I should look into one... Though I'm still thinking I'll eventually have to buy Nameless' Recon3D just so I don't have to plug & unplug a soundcard every time I switch between booting Mac OS X for work & art and Windows for a few hardcore games. Oddly, Steam is working better on the Mac side than in Windows, and downloads via Ethernet are in the Kbps in the afternoon on the windows side.
> *shrug*
> With all the exploration that has come before in cartoons, comics, and even movies, I just don't understand why this one struggles so much. The Hulk movie directed by the same guy who did "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" did a better job with his box office flop (which I actually enjoyed). Well...
> *shrug*




Yeah, the Fiio D03K is a spdif dac only. USB is just for power. I had the D3 (first gen version) and it worked well until it crapped out on me. The D03K goes for less than $30.

Only bought it because ironically, my of a "beast" dac in my Compass 2 doesn't wanna play nice with the U3's spdif signal. I know it's not the U3 being problematic, because I hooked up the Mixamp via the spdif to the U3, and it worked fine.


----------



## Evshrug

It's a sad-face circumstance. Hope the workaround works for you!


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

i dont have the money to buy the astro or dds2 Evs /cry tho thanks alot for the advices mostly appreciated !!, Mad lust can you please share your results here soon i would be thankfull and deeply appreciated, just a fast question from an ignorant guy, would there be a difference between Fiio D03K with mica 6ft optical toslink cable and the one you linked, am really not an expert that's why am always saved  not always tho , atm i will search for a guide on how to use it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Fiio D03K is a standard stereo spdif dac. it doesn't do virtual surround or anything of the sort. I ONLY have it because my Compass 2 won't accept the U3's Spdif signal.

I dunno what you're asking.

Doing some quick comparing, and it doesn't sound much different from my Compass 2 dac, at least at first listen. This is why I say DACs are overrated and differences are blown out of proportion. Any decent dac will do just fine. This is a $30 dac compared to a multi-hundred dollar dac with a dac chip used in extremely high end dacs. the only dac I'd say was noticeably not up to par to the rest was the original Fiio E7.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My 'home' computer setups...

Music, non-gaming needs:

Alienware M17X R4 - Spdif out - Compass 2 - Headphones

Gaming:

Alienware M17x R4 - USB - Xonar U3 - Spdif out - Fiio D03k - Analog in - Compass 2 - Headphones

^This setup is a daunting, but the Xonar and Fiio are small and will be hidden away behind the desk. I just use a USB hub which everything connects to, and only the USB cable from the hub goes to my laptop. This way I get Dolby Headphone from the Xonar U3, but I bypass the internal dac AND amp and use the Fiio D03K's dac/Compass 2's amp. 

Away from home:

Alienware M17X R4 - Internal Creative Recon 3Di soundcard - headphones

^My easy solution, which I just play with THX Tru Studio and deal with the less than audiophile level internal amp/dac. I only use the Koss clip-ons, so I don't need to go all out.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

hmm so i dont need the fiio d03k for my hd 585 headphones on pc ?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> hmm so i dont need the fiio d03k for my hd 585 headphones on pc ?


 
   
  No, it's something MLE uses because his USB soundcard is finicky with his Compass 2 DAC/AMP.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I don't get the confusion here. I said that's MY personal issue. if my Compass 2's spdif wasn't so finicky, I wouldn't need the Fiio D03K.

Again, this is just for when using the Xonar U3 external Dolby headphone device. I honestly could've just ran an analog cable to my Compass 2 directly, using the U3 as a Dolby pre-amp, but the U3 has a bad internal amp, which is why I wanted to bypass it entirely.


----------



## chicolom

So the U3 mixes DD 5.1 into a _DIGITAL-_stereo-2-channel-Dolby-Headphone-signal and passes that digital signal through optical?  That seems unusual, as usually Dolby Headphone is only applied with the analog out/HP jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> So the U3 mixes DD 5.1 into a _DIGITAL-_stereo-2-channel-Dolby-Headphone-signal and passes that digital signal through optical?  That seems unusual, as usually Dolby Headphone is only applied with the analog out/HP jack.




Yuppers. So far, it's the only Dolby headphone device I've seen that does that, making it indispensable, IMHO.

People were hating on the U3, when it may actually be Head-fi's best device for Dolby headphone gaming, considering amp and dac duties can be sent to legit devices.

Now if we could only get a device that does that for consoles...


----------



## conquerator2

I an using this device. I wonder how it compares with the other processors you mentioned
   

  It has an optical in and out, RCA input and a 1/8 out.
   
  It emulates 5.1/7.1 virtual surround, as well as dolby pro logic IIx
  The device automatically select the supported format(s)
   
  It came with the Turtle Beach PX5
   
  So it goes PS3 - TB processor - external amp - HP
   
  The device itself has an amplifier as well, as well as 2 volume knobs (one for the 1/8 and one for the RCA, so there are probably 2 internal amplifiers)
   
  Works quite well IMO, no noise floor and the SQ seems decent, good spatial cues/ space rendering.
  No presets though.
   
  Supports bypass mode (sound passes through unaltered, without any sort of emulation)
  Powered through USB
   
  Tested with the Pro 900 and HE-6.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> no noise floor


 
  I don't believe that's how it works XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> I an using this device. I wonder how it compares with the other processors you mentioned
> 
> It has an optical in and out, RCA input and a 1/8 out.
> 
> ...




That's a Dolby headphone device. Like the Mixamp.

I assuming you're attaching your external amp to the headphone out on the device to get the virtual surround. You're basically doing what all of us Mixamp users do, using the device as a pre-amp for Dolby headphone.

What I mean is a NEED for an external device that retains the virtual surround through the optical out. Optical outs on devices like yours are passthroughs and only transmit either an untouched signal (usually Dolby Digital or down converted to 2 channel PCM aka stereo). I dunno how the U3 is doing it, but more devices need to do the same. I know some other PC devices and soundcards do virtual surround passthroughs, but that's like CMSS-3D, not Dolby Headphone...


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's a Dolby headphone device. Like the Mixamp.
> 
> I assuming you're attaching your external amp to the headphone out on the device to get the virtual surround. You're basically doing what all of us Mixamp users do, using the device as a pre-amp for Dolby headphone.
> 
> What I mean is a NEED for an external device that retains the virtual surround through the optical out. Optical outs on devices like yours are passthroughs and only transmit either an untouched signal (usually Dolby Digital or down converted to 2 channel PCM aka stereo). I dunno how the U3 is doing it, but more devices need to do the same. I know some other PC devices and soundcards do virtual surround passthroughs, but that's like CMSS-3D, not Dolby Headphone...


 
  Yep, that is exactly how it works.
  And I agree, and HDMI out would be nice as well.
   
  I tried connecting the TB and my other DAC to see what happens. The result was a loud distorted hissing sound.
   
   
  EDIT: I do wish there was an audiophile grade device to use. Audiophile Dolby Headphone for consoles. Having an HDMI out.
  Something like the Matrix S-Sabre for console gaming would be great...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sure you probably knew this, but that's because your 'legit' DAC doesn't accept Dolby Digital.  The only legit DAC (not bundled in a receiver, etc) I've seen that accepts Dolby and DTS (without any virtual functionality) is the Fiio D07. It's for those who absolutely need to decode Dolby/DTS for something like a soundbar that won't accept those encoders, or devices with no way to convert them to PCM. I know my soundbar didn't, and I got the distorted sound when trying to watch OTA channels. My TV also didn't have an option to convert signals to standard PCM, so I was out of luck. That could've been rectified with the D07 (wasn't available back then).


----------



## conquerator2

Or isnt a DSD audiophile device what we are looking for? Is PCM the way?
  As a matter of fact what kind of device do we exactly need to make the sounds as good as possible?
  I guess we need the consoles to support sound through USB, or is the optical out fine? Isnt it the same as using the optical outs of our PC soundcards? (to a less degree of deformation)
   
  I am still kinda lost as far as the gaming DH sound processing works.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't game at all on a computer, but let's say I want to stream movies on my laptop and listen in Dolby Headphone. Would the U3 be my best cheap solution?


----------



## Naingolann

It's out...
   
  http://ff6.ocremix.org/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, absolutely. Still, the headphone out isn't the best. 23 ohm output impedance. You'll want to at least bypass the internal whether by spdif, or just double amping with another amp.

Nain, I torrented it earlier today.  haven't heard it yet though.


----------



## Change is Good

Would I be able to bypass it to my DAC _then _my amp?


----------



## Happy Bullets

Phillips X1 + http://v-moda.com/vtf-accessories/ Should = Pimp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Would I be able to bypass it to my DAC _then_ my amp?




How else would you get audio to your headphones? Silly. 

You need an amp after the DAC. Short answer, yes. U3 -> DAC -> Dac's analog out -> Amp -> headphones

Your dac MUST have spdif capabilities. So like, the Modi would not work.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> How else would you get audio to your headphones? Silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Sorry... what I meant was bypass to my DAC, _first, _then my amp. But I wasn't even thinking straight because I'll have to get a another DAC to be compatible. If I do end up getting the U3, I'll just have to bypass it straight to my amp and deal with its internal DAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Without a dac, you're not bypassing anything, you're just dealing an analog signal to your amp aka double-amping. Still, that's better than dealing with the U3's amp alone, as the super high input impedances on line ins will fleshen out the signal for your headphones, I believe. It sounds fine that way, in any case, but you are double amping which is a last resort (like attaching an amp to the Mixamp).


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Without a dac, you're not bypassing anything, you're just dealing an analog signal to your amp aka double-amping. Still, that's better than dealing with the U3's amp alone, as the super high input impedances on line ins will fleshen out the signal for your headphones. It sounds fine that way, in any case, but you are double amping.


 
   
  Ahhh, so that is where the D03K DAC comes in? You can bypass the U3 to it via SPDIF? I'm just now reading a couple pages back...
   
  My bad, I'm such a ****** lol...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

....lol.

Yes. the U3 is ONLY now just there for the software and Dolby Headphone. Digital to analog conversion is done by the D03K, and amping is done by the Compass 2. That removes any 'bad' things the U3 had going against it.


----------



## Chubtoad

So I finally hooked up the Annies/Asgard 2 and tried out The Last of Us and WOW, the sound is freakin incredible.
   
  I set up the in game audio options for Dolby Digital 5.1, and Dyanmic Range to Maximum, center channel speaker left at small in case anybody was wondering.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> Phillips X1 + http://v-moda.com/vtf-accessories/ Should = Pimp


 
   
  So they finally posted that damned thing for sale. I've been eyeing it for a while. However, for the price I could get another modmic. But I may still have to give this a try for my all-in-one solution for a cable. My braided Q701/Modmic cable gets a bit bothersome at times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That definitely kills almost any need for a headset... should be quite a thing to have for headphones with detachable cables with 3.5mm inputs. So convenient for the X1.

I'd order one, but I really don't ever chat... and for the rare occasions that I do, I still have my DX clip on mic.


----------



## kenshinhimura

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> Phillips X1 + http://v-moda.com/vtf-accessories/ Should = Pimp


 

 looks good. what adaptor would you need to plug into xbox360 control if you dont have a mixamp?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> Phillips X1 + http://v-moda.com/vtf-accessories/ Should = Pimp


 
   
  AKG should take a page from this idea...


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





change is good said:


> AKG should take a page from this idea...


 
  yes, yes they should.


----------



## calpis

Hmm... I should pick up a D03k and see if my Xonar U1 will play nicely with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> Hmm... I should pick up a D03k and see if my Xonar U1 will play nicely with it.




It retains Dolby Headphone through it's SPDIF out? If so, why didn't you ever say so? 

You don't have a dac with an spdif?

I know nowadays lots of dacs are USB only, so it's understandable.

I probably should've held out and bought an E17 instead of the D03K, seeing as I could benefit from a portable amp/spdif dac, but I didn't wanna spend $100 more for a situational device.


----------



## chicolom

There's no U3 equivalent for consoles (device that converts DD 5.1 to Dolby headphone and passes that digital signal along optical out)?


----------



## Evshrug

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> i dont have the money to buy the astro or dds2 Evs /cry tho thanks alot for the advices mostly appreciated !!, Mad lust can you please share your results here soon i would be thankfull and deeply appreciated, just a fast question from an ignorant guy, would there be a difference between Fiio D03K with mica 6ft optical toslink cable and the one you linked, am really not an expert that's why am always saved  not always tho , atm i will search for a guide on how to use it



You can get a DSS for $30 easily on eBay (sometimes better). A headphone surround processor really makes a difference in gaming, once you get used to it you'd rather have a $30 DSS + $14 Koss "Pulse" KSC75 clip on headphones than $150 Sennheiser HD558 in flat stereo.
Food for thought?

And Chico, I have not found any such optical-in/optical-out headphone surround processor. Probably waaaaaay too specialized to ever exist except as a DIY project for someone really smart and bored.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It retains Dolby Headphone through it's SPDIF out? If so, why didn't you ever say so?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Hah, I never thought about using it that way before. I'm not even entirely sure it'll work. I guess I could try and hook it up to my receiver but that would require me to find that stupid little 3.5mm optical adapter thingy.


----------



## dakanao

Looking for open or closed gaming headphones for the xbox 360, will be pluggin them straight into my TV. I need good soundstage, very good positional cues, and good bass for those grenade explosions. And btw, why does your headphone sounds recessed on the mids and highs when connected to a TV?
  My budget is 160 euro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hooking up straight to the TV and good positional cues do not ever mix. TV's headphone outs will be stereo.


----------



## DemonFox

dakanao said:


> Looking for open or closed gaming headphones for the xbox 360, will be pluggin them straight into my TV. I need good soundstage, very good positional cues, and good bass for those grenade explosions. And btw, why does your headphone sounds recessed on the mids and highs when connected to a TV?




Because the TV isn't a very good source. You may want to invest in a Astro Mixamp. That way you can get surround sound out if any headphone you plug into it. 

His much are you wanting to spend on headphones? 


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hooking up straight to the TV and good positional cues do not ever mix. TV's headphone outs will be stereo.


 
  Alright, and what's the best mixamp + headphone of my needs with a total cost of 160 euros?
  Quote: 





demonfox said:


> Because the TV isn't a very good source. You may want to invest in a Astro Mixamp. That way you can get surround sound out if any headphone you plug into it.
> 
> His much are you wanting to spend on headphones?
> 
> ...


 
  I want to spend a maximum of 160 euros on both the headphones and the mixamp. What's the best mixamp and headphone of my needs for a total of 160 euros?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look for a cheap used Turtle Beach DSS (original, not DSS2), and a pair of DT990 pros.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Look for a cheap used Turtle Beach DSS (original, not DSS2), and a pair of DT990 pros.


 
  What Ohm DT990's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

250ohm DT990 pros only come in 250ohmm, but the 250ohm are the easiest to drive. The 32ohm plays louder, but less refined until you use a powerful amp. The 250ohm requires less power, but it won't be driven as loudly off lesser equipment. In the case of non-chat gaming, the DSS and Mixamp will at least play the 990 loudly.

Recessed mids are a product of v shaped headphones. Bass and treble emphasis like the 990.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> 250ohm DT990 pros only come in 250ohmm, but the 250ohm are the easiest to drive. The 32ohm plays louder, but less refined until you use a powerful amp. The 250ohm requires less power, but it won't be driven as loudly off lesser equipment. In the case of non-chat gaming, the DSS and Mixamp will at least play the 990 loudly.


 
  Yeah I don't need a mic. So the 250 ohm will play fine from the DSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd invest in an amp to attach to it later, but they'll be ok. They'll at least be better than anything easier to drive in your price range. Good bass, large soundstage, and positional cues aren't normally found together.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd invest in an amp to attach to it later, but they'll be ok. They'll at least be better than anything easier to drive in your price range. Good bass, large soundstage, and positional cues aren't normally found together.


 
  Will you be able to hear ninja pro users within a distance of like 20 meters in a map when your last man standing in a S&D game in MW2 with the DT990's and the DSS combined?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That just sounds ridiculous.

No headphone is gonna all the sudden make you hear something in game unless you're comparing it to really muddy, crappy headphones.

Ninja pro users aren't audible with any headphone unless you use whatever perk raises footstep noise in MW2, which then will make NP users have standard footsteps.

Anyone who claims otherwise are just spewing forth hyperbole. A good headphone will let you hear what is mixed in game well, not highlight footsteps decibel levels mixed so lowly in the game audio.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That just sounds ridiculous.
> 
> No headphone is gonna all the sudden make you hear something in game unless you're comparing it to really muddy, crappy headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm I see. But the 3D positional cues are really good right with the DT990's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look at the guide, if some scores an 8 or higher, you're pretty much set. Hell, 7.5 or higher. Then it's up to you to decide what kind of sound signature you would like.

There is no end be all headphone, especially not with your budget. You get something, you lose something else. If you want to analyze footsteps, get the AD700s. They have very, very little bass, so you can focus on smaller details. However, your example is too extreme, even for the AD700.

The 990s do positional audio very well.

I'm not gonna sell people BS, and claim you can hear a fly buzzing from the other side of a map with ANY headphone.

The most important thing is to have detailed headphones with large soundstages and great positional accuracy for the closest thing to god mode in terms of game audio. AD700, Q701 come to mind. Even so, it's a few percentages better than everything else that scores an 8 or so. Not night and day or even better enough to dismiss other, well balanced headphones that are more immersive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-X1-28-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372784085&sr=8-2&keywords=x1%2F28

The X1 is currently $275 on Amazon! :eek:

Go get it!


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Look at the guide, if some scores an 8 or higher, you're pretty much set. Hell, 7.5 or higher. Then it's up to you to decide what kind of sound signature you would like.
> 
> There is no end be all headphone, especially not with your budget. You get something, you lose something else. If you want to analyze footsteps, get the AD700s. They have very, very little bass, so you can focus on smaller details. However, your example is too extreme, even for the AD700.
> 
> ...


 
  Hmm I see. It turns out that the DT990's + DSS are too expensive for me. So I need to save up a little more.


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Philips-X1-28-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1372784085&sr=8-2&keywords=x1%2F28
> 
> The X1 is currently $275 on Amazon!
> 
> ...


 
  would these be a complimentary headphone to go with the annies for a different type of sound? or is there really any need?
   
  and what if I do want to hear a fly buzzing on the wall from across the map? LOL kidding


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're different, but unless you want more bass than the Annies, there really isn't a need for the X1, IMHO. They're both very competent all rounders with different flavors. The same if you happened to own the X1 and were curious about the Annie.

The only thing is that the Annie does competitive gaming better (better sense of rear positional cues), and the X1 is more immersive.

Because I happen to prefer a stronger bass emphasis, the X1 is more tuned to my preference.


----------



## Chubtoad

yeah it doesn't really sound like I would personally need the X1s then. I'm quite happy with the Annies, gaming with them is like


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't blame you. I'd want the Annies if only because I love it so much. But I don't have a logical necessity for it with the X1 around. Two all around headphones doesn't classify as a necessity.


----------



## Chubtoad

I did order the Creative Aurvana Lives for my vita so i'll be checking them out once they arrive.


----------



## pietcux

I went to my local Media Markt store on my lunch break today. They have about 200 headphones on display. They have the AKG 701 and also the Sennheiser HD 650 to start comparisons. Today I auditioned the Fidelio X1 and the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. In that environment you cannot test if you can hear a fly one the other side of a COD map behind you, but you can kind of tell if the sound signature is for you or not. When I tested the X1 first about two month ago, they where more or less meh to me, not good, not bad, just not interesting. But now they have hundreds of hour on their drivers and are fully broken in. They are really nice sounding, especially the bass. It is a night and day difference. to me they have a very big and warm bass, that is just about perfect. Very tempting.  And it is running from a demo setup that drives 200 cans parallel. Only that they are all running at the same level. Then cam the Beyer. This is also a reasonable can. The bass is even more powerfull when you put the switches to full bass. And they are comfortable. The have vinyl pads which might be an off for some. But you can probably replace them with any Beyer velour or leather pad that is currently available. The stage seemed quite big to me though, maybe MLE, you could give them a full test. I feel these are also very interesting for gamers.


----------



## dakanao

What's the difference between the Turtle Beach DSS and DSS2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DSS2 doesn't use Dolby headphone, it uses it's own virtual surround emulation. I haven't personally heard it, but I've heard it's not as good. But at least you can tweak where the virtual speakers are around you. Me, I'm used to DH, and I prefer spending my money on a tried and tested product. I'd still like to try it at some point.


----------



## HiCZoK

I am looking for something below or around 100$.
  Very comfortable, over ear and closed. Not for competitive but for immersive gaming and lil bit of music listening(all kind of soundtracks, some scene music, chiptune and all kind of music) and movie watching.
  Durability and detachable cable would be nice features but I dont expect magic in that price 
   
  I am also getting Sound Blaster Z to finally finish with ongoing realtek alc892 disgrace.
   
  btw. Right now I have Creative SB Tactic Sigma.
   
  thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> I am looking for something below or around 100$.
> Very comfortable, over ear and closed. Not for competitive but for immersive gaming and lil bit of music listening(all kind of soundtracks, some scene music, chiptune and all kind of music) and movie watching.
> Durability and detachable cable would be nice features but I dont expect magic in that price
> I am also getting Sound Blaster Z to finally finish with ongoing realtek alc892 disgrace.
> btw. Right now I have Creative SB Tactic Sigma.


 
  Takstar Pro 80 (Gemini HSR-1000) headphones, usually sells for around $85.


----------



## HiCZoK

Dang it. Those look EXACTLY like something I am searching for.... Not available in poland. Or at least I can't find it. I am always checking those 2 sites
  Ceneo.pl (stores info from plenty of shops around country)
  Allegro.pl (polish ebay like site)
   
  Searched both names and nothing.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> Dang it. Those look EXACTLY like something I am searching for.... Not available in Poland. Or at least I can't find it. I am always checking those 2 sites
> Ceneo.pl (stores info from plenty of shops around country)
> Allegro.pl (polish ebay like site)
> 
> Searched both names and nothing.


 
  They are sold on eBay, and in Asia from Seaben and Aliexpress.
   
  Closest distributars I can find.
*LITHUANIA
JSC "Milgreta"*
Tilžės 122, Šiauliai
 Lithuania, LT-77160
Tel.: +370 41 500230
 Fax.: +370 41 500231
 E-mail：aleksas@milgreta.lt
 Website：www.milgreta.lt
www.audiosystems.lt
   

  
[size=x-small]*UKRAINE*[/size]
[size=x-small]*CLUBTECH*[/size]
   
 Donetsk Region, Donetsk city. Street. Artema 160 Ukraine
TEL: (50) 5832619
Email: infoclubtech@gmail.com


----------



## HiCZoK

Found em on ebay too. 100$ with shipping.. but i would prefer to get em somewhere locally, so I could easily return em or use warranty without all the hassle.


----------



## Happy Bullets

The TH-600 came in today via Justin at Headamp. First off, if you don't know Justin he is a stand up guy. For anyone that does not know, he has a demo thread where he sends out quality headphones to those who sign up...  http://www.head-fi.org/t/645941/headamp-headphone-demos-audeze-fostex-hifiman-sennheiser-stax-sign-up-now
   
  My very initial impressions of the Fostex with DH were extremely disappointing....until I added an amp to the mixamp. Then everything changed. Positional cues especially rear cues are the best I have ever heard. Better than the HD-800 even. The sense of space and sound stage is enormous and spot on. I figured these were going to be beast when I initially heard them a month or so ago at a head-fi meet, but I never expected this. Truly phenomenal for gaming. Off to listen more......


----------



## spikes

Hello I'm new here and would first off really like to thank mad lust envy and of course everyone who also conributed for this great headphone guide. I had a DT990 Edition for a bit over a year and i'm thinking about getting the T90 and has anyone spend some time with the T90 and can tell me how they compare to the DT990 Edition? Will use them mainly for gaming (on a asus xonar essece stx) and music (same soundcard) and am still confused if i would profit from also getting a fiio E09k + E07K combo?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX is the basic equivalent of the Fiio E9K, and a very good DAC. You wouldn't need anything more for the T90, which is apparently easier to drive than the DT990s.


----------



## spikes

great thanks for the reply, did you have a chance to check out the T90?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> What's the difference between the Turtle Beach DSS and DSS2?


 
   
  Like MLE said, DSS1 has DH and DSS2 uses TB's own proprietary HRTF.
   
  The DSS2 actually do have better positional cues than the DSS, if I were to compare... the DSS2 is quite akin to Creative's old CMSS-3D, except almost without the "tin-can" effect. The ability to "switch" the virtual surround speakers will actually depend on what type of headphones you have. I find that cans with larger soundstage usually benefit more from this than ones with very forward sounding signatures. Otherwise you usually wouldn't hear much of a notable difference.
   
  I've got both of them and I honestly prefer the original DSS more, simply because the DSS2 loses out on immersion.
   
  I do not play MP games much anymore these days and when I do, DH is usually good enough. Hand-eye coordination + game sense + understanding of mechanics > sound, all the time IMO.


----------



## deanorthk

Greetings everyone.
  Soon, I'm going to receive a PS 1000, and a burson Soloist, so my good old HD 650 and burson HA 160 can be use for something else.
   
  that is: gaming rig!!! Both my PS3 and PC gaming are near, and I have an astrogaming mixamp (not 2013).
   
  I can't find the information, but can I output the signal from the Mixamp (pc sound coming from USB, PS3 coming from optical) to the burson HA 160 or do I need to connect the HD650 in the mixamp?...
  lost I am


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp does not do proper usb audio, other than chat and very lackluster stereo (not good quality stereo at that).

Unless you PC/soundcard has an optical out that passes on Dolby Digital 5.1, the Mixamp won't function correctly on your PC. This is why something like the Xonar U3 which not only transfers Dolby Digital, but Dolby Headphone to other, better Dacs and amps, is more ideal. For PC use only.

For the Mixamp on console, you would hook up your audiophile amp to the Mixamp's headphone jack (to pass on Dolby Headphone). It's the only way for console use (if you wanna use your good amps).


----------



## deanorthk

Thanks. My burson HA160 got only one input, so it's going to be tough. I guess I'll drop that, keep the astrogaming purely for the PS3 with my bose supra, and buy a card like the U3, the same setup as you... I could even go from the PS3 to my actual headphone rig (it's a bit overkill though), burson DA 160/burson soloist/grado PS 1000).
   
  hard to find the perfect solution for good surround gaming from PC, plus not too much hardware involved..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the U3 is a pretty simple solution, as you can just go from its spdif out to your DAC's spdif in (assuming it has one). I dunnk what internal soundcard has dolby headpjone and passes it to its spdif like the U3, though.


----------



## 3X0

mad lust envy said:


> Well, the U3 is a pretty simple solution, as you can just go from its spdif out to your DAC's spdif in (assuming it has one). I dunnk what internal soundcard has dolby headpjone and passes it to its spdif like the U3, though.


Sweet jesus, I had no idea the U3 had optical output. I'm surprised it hasn't flown off the shelves since AFAIK it's the only external DH hardware with this capability.

Do you know what kind of optical output port the U3 has (e.g. the usual TOSLink or coax)? I'll probably scoop one up as there's a $10 MIR going on them this month.


----------



## deanorthk

For me it's even better, the burson soloist got THREE input, so even if I grab a xonar U7, I can directly go analog to the amp, and then drive the headphones (ps 1000 or HD650). I guess even output from the mixamp from jack 3.5--> 2analog in the solist.
  the PS 1000 though is a bad gaming headphone, way too heavy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3x0 said:


> Sweet jesus, I had no idea the U3 had optical output. I'm surprised it hasn't flown off the shelves since AFAIK it's the only external DH hardware with this capability.
> 
> Do you know what kind of optical output port the U3 has (e.g. the usual TOSLink or coax)? I'll probably scoop one up as there's a $10 MIR going on them this month.




The 3.5mm output is a combo. Both spdif and analog. Like Macbooks. In the Xonar software, you can set the output to be analog or spdif, and change the spdif from standard passthrough (Dolby Digital, no conversion) to PCM (where it converts to Dolby Headphone, if you turn DH on, if not, it's a standard stereo PCM ). 

The U3 comes bundled with the little standard toslink to 3.5mm adapter.

Basically, you set the U3 to 7.1 Dolby Digital in the sound properties, and just change what sort of output you want it to have with the Xonar software, which is much easier to use than the Creative software, and remembers what settings you have (for each USB input, you can set them differently).


----------



## 3X0

I see, so no proprietary optical-to-3.5mm cable needed? With the adapter I can just use a standard TOSLink cable?

This is groundbreaking..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was VERY close to returning the U3, until I noticed that the spdif retained Dolby headphone with the right software settings. That immediately made them absolutely worthwhile,even if it cost double the price.

And yeah, you can use your regular cables. The adapter works perfectly.


----------



## 3X0

Sweet. Pulled the trigger on one for $30 AR for desktop usage. The U3 is certainly easily worth $60-80 given the optical output.

Dolby Headphone + desktop amp/DAC + Baby Orpheus =


----------



## deanorthk

I'm decided, Xonar U7, and the 3.5m jack to 2 RCA real cables cable to hook all that to the burson soloist, I'll cross my finger and hope it'll work as intended, so I can sell my HA 160 and minimise the amount of stuff on my desk


----------



## kenshinhimura

what adapter is needed to plug in xbox 360 control without mixamp? want to see if i can use this with my X1.
   
http://v-moda.com/vtf/


----------



## pietcux

deanorthk said:


> I'm decided, Xonar U7, and the 3.5m jack to 2 RCA real cables cable to hook all that to the burson soloist, I'll cross my finger and hope it'll work as intended, so I can sell my HA 160 and minimise the amount of stuff on my desk




Yes that does indead work.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> The TH-600 came in today via Justin at Headamp. First off, if you don't know Justin he is a stand up guy. For anyone that does not know, he has a demo thread where he sends out quality headphones to those who sign up...  http://www.head-fi.org/t/645941/headamp-headphone-demos-audeze-fostex-hifiman-sennheiser-stax-sign-up-now
> 
> My very initial impressions of the Fostex with DH were extremely disappointing....until I added an amp to the mixamp. Then everything changed. Positional cues especially rear cues are the best I have ever heard. Better than the HD-800 even. The sense of space and sound stage is enormous and spot on. I figured these were going to be beast when I initially heard them a month or so ago at a head-fi meet, but I never expected this. Truly phenomenal for gaming. Off to listen more......


 
   
  Did you pair it with the E12?
   
  I am thinking about a TH-600 sometime for console gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

deanorthk said:


> I'm decided, Xonar U7, and the 3.5m jack to 2 RCA real cables cable to hook all that to the burson soloist, I'll cross my finger and hope it'll work as intended, so I can sell my HA 160 and minimise the amount of stuff on my desk




I'm not sure the U7 is like the U3 in that the spdif out will retain Dolby headphone...

in either case, don't know why you'd spend the extra on the U7 when you'll be using an external dac/amp, and relegating the U7 JUST to Dolby duties. It's a waste of money. Unless you planned on using the U7's internal DAC which I doubt matches your legitimate audiophile DAC...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not sure the U7 is like the U3 in that the spdif out will retain Dolby headphone...
> 
> in either case, don't know why you'd spend the extra on the U7 when you'll be using an external dac/amp, and relegating the U7 JUST to Dolby duties. It's a waste of money. Unless you planned on using the U7's internal DAC which I doubt matches your legitimate audiophile DAC...



...
Didn't you just say the differences in DACs are exaggerated, as long as one of them isn't super crappy? I mean, if the U3 could send a line-out analogue signal to an amp, or if there's a volume setting that's basically just as good as LO to an external amp, then why bother adding another DAC? I'd be fine just double-amping, just plug it in and start enjoying some games


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The U7 cost what, like 3-4x the U3? If he's planning on using an external dac and amp, he's better off saving money and just using the U3. They're both gonna send a purely digital signal to his dac (assuming the U7 does this like the U3), so there is no benefit to using the U7 in that situation.

If he wants to double amp, and the U7 doesn't do what the U3 does, then he's spending extra for an unclean chain to Dolby Headphone. It makes no sense.

And I doubt it's a pure analog line out on the U3. For the piece of mind, and superior dac, this is exactly why I went with the spdif out option instead.


----------



## Chubtoad

Hey I just have a quick question regarding the gain setting on the Asgard 2, theres low and high, I'm not really sure which setting I should be using with the Annies.
   
  I've been mostly using it with low since the headphones are 62 ohms, but I've also tested high and it makes the volume and everything just much louder, basically on low gain i tend to leave the amp at 9-10 o clock but on high gain depending on the game i leave it lower or else it gets to loud lol.
   
  although high gain mode almost sounds like everything is much more detailed and clear sounding.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Low gain has less distortion, high gain tends to make things sound dynamic. Honestly, the difference between low and high gain is so subtle with almost every amp I've used, that I stick to high gain just in case I ever have an accident and accidentally toggle the gain switch (potential to ruin a headphone by blasting super loud audio on accident).

I'd personally just use whichever gives you what you consider a good placement for the volume knob. I usually like mine as close to 10-12 o clock as possible.


----------



## dakanao

How would the AKG K540 (semi open headphone) perform with the DSS?


----------



## deanorthk

Good point there Madlustenvy
  I forgot to say that my Burson DAC is broken, and only work with coaxial input, used by my M2tech from my imac, for music. I bought it second hand, and the seller..Well, it robbed me, you could say that. Either way, since I'm in Reunion island, and FAR from everything, returning the Burson to Poland (where Burson european after sale is), well it was a no go (cost plus waiting).
  So I'm forced to used the soloist second analogue input, thus, the U7 that got the analog out, but as you said, I'm NOT sure this will retain the whole dolby surround stuff.
  Thing is, the U3 + Fiio is so close, money wise, to the cost of U7, it made me hesitate (less items, but as you said, they are so little, it can be hiden.
  If the U3 is the only way to send the surround sound to the soloist, then, I'll go that way, but as I said, I hesitated because of the "one item" thingy..Hope you understand my point.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it a digital coaxial? You can just buy an optical to digital coaxial converter. I have one from monoprice, and it works just fine. Your Burson is still usable.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2

Something like that. So you'd put that between the U3 and your Burson.


----------



## 3X0

Xonar U7 lists that it has a coaxial digital output in the specs page. Might be worth a try?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He can save a lot more money buy just buying an optical to digital coax converter and still getting the U3. I used mine for years, and I notice zero degradation of SQ. Sure, it's yet another device to hide behind the desk...

PC - U3 - Optical to Digital coaxial converter - Burson DAC - Burson amp - headphones... lol

They key here is that you're still keeping everything digital until it gets to the Burson DAC.

In my situation, it's:

Laptop - U3 - Fiio D03K (dac) - Compass 2 (amp portion) - Headphones

Note the U3 and Fiio D03K are hidden away. I don't need to touch them at all.

IF my Compass 2's dac worked properly with the U3, it would've been:

Laptop - U3 - Compass 2 (it's both dac and amp being used) - Headphones

If you want plenty of distance between the U3 and PC, I'd get a USB extension cable. That ot a USB hub with a lengthy USB cable, that way you can plug the U3 to the hub. The extension cable that come with the U3 is really short.


----------



## chococya96

Alright, I just received my Mixamp pro 2013 as I sent it for repair due to hissing/buzzing noise when you turn the knob to 2/3 of the way (between middle to MAX). However, although they said it was fixed and tested before shipping back to me the hissing noise was still there.
   
  I've sent an email to them and they told I'll have to use different USB cable or different headset. Trying out different cables and headsets resulted in same problem.
   
  With that being said, I would like a clarification if this is normal or not. I've asked this question before but after reps from Astro gaming confirmed that it is "not" normal (hence, that's why I sent it back for repair) I'm not quite sure if it is or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's normal. Mixamp 2013 hisses when you go up past a volume level. I've mentioned this in the guide...

It's a waste to return it again, as they ALL do this.

If you want much less noise, find a 2011 Mixamp, or old school first gen Mixamp. Those barely hisss until you nearly max out the volume.


----------



## deanorthk

Point is, I'm STUCK, I only have 1 digital coaxial input in my burson DAC, and it's used my my M2tech from my imac, used for music...It's crazy, just one input frop the 4 I have on the fac are working, sigh.
   
  So I'll have no choice but to attack the burson amp directly not from the burson dac, for gaming pc and PS3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok... I prefer just dealing manually swapping out... been doing that for years, as all of my headphone amps have only one analog input, and I use it for both PS3 - Mixamp use, and PC/DAC use. Even now, if I play on my Mixamp and want the better amping of my Compass 2, I have to remove the cable that goes from my laptop gaming setup just to attach my PS3 setup.

You're gonna spend over $100 just because you don't wanna swap out cables.

What are your EXACT setups and inputs/devices?

PS3 setup.

PC setup.


----------



## HiCZoK

guys, how are xb600 for gaming?
  They say it have good isolation, comfort and fantastic bass


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sony XB and fantastic bass doesn't make sense. XB is usually really bloated, muddy and overly emphasized bass.

That being said, they may have changed with the new XB line, but I'm not holding my breath.

I liked the XB700 a lot, but definitely NOT for gaming. The XB500 was... just...*no* in every sense of the word.


----------



## HiCZoK

especially this review praise xb600.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC6zES1dFtg
   
  And a guy on other forum is praising them too


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> guys, how are xb600 for gaming?
> They say it have good isolation, comfort and fantastic bass


 
   
   
   
  I might have to listen to them again because that's not what I got from the demo I did with them at my local Best Buy. I owned the XB500's and wish I never sold them because of how fun and obnoxious they were. The XB600 were flat out awful. The build had some of the cheapest plastics I've ever felt and gave zero confidence of longevity and before I even hit play I was ready to take them off. I had been looking forward to trying and ultimately owning them based off of their older brother the XB500 but after hearing how the bass had been gutted and the mids even more recessed than the 500's was nuts! There is zero soundstage or instrument separation so gaming or movies wouldn't be an enjoyable experience and I would never recommend them for that purpose or any to be honest. Of course these are my own opinions so some may like them or maybe I just got a dud of a pair to listen to but overall impressions were not positive. 
   
  Now on that same note I also tried the Mdr-V55's they had next to the XB600 and I needed to clear my head of that horrible experience and was shocked and pleasantly surprised. They aren't the best made headphones but for the price you can get them for ($60 or less) they were pretty good. They looked kind of cool were super light and had an agreeable sound that anyone could pick up and enjoy. Not bass monsters or anything like that but had a clear V shaped sound signature vs muddy J signature from the XB600's. I was going to buy a pair before I ran into the JVC HA-S500's and fell in love with the bonkers sound they produced but still would recommend them to someone looking for a nice cheaper pair of headphones that are super portable and easy to listen too. Tons of cans for the money can be had that would be better suited for gaming or general listening than the XB600's. 
   
   
  Thanks,


----------



## HiCZoK

Thanks for answer. There seem to be some really crazy opposite opinions about xb600. i even emailed the dude on other forum and he says he likes em better than ath50m. What 
  So in fact - now I am looking for good isolating "fun" headphones for mainly gaming (immersively not competitevely) and some music, movies. (100 or sub 100$ please - I will use em with sbz or xonar dg. I am still reading on those 2 sound cards)
   
  I will try to give xb600 a try in the store, If I will see them around to confirm(or not) Your disqust with them


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> Thanks for answer. There seem to be some really crazy opposite opinions about xb600. i even emailed the dude on other forum and he says he likes em better than ath50m. What
> So in fact - now I am looking for good isolating "fun" headphones for mainly gaming (immersively not competitevely) and some music, movies. (100 or sub 100$ please - I will use em with sbz or xonar dg. I am still reading on those 2 sound cards)
> 
> I will try to give xb600 a try in the store, If I will see them around to confirm(or not) Your disqust with them


 
  What forum is this?  I can tell you headfiers are going to be really picky about sound quality haha!  Anyway, I made a recommendation on your other inquiry thread promoting the CAL, you can't go wrong there based on what you just described above for under $100!  I'm sure others would agree.


----------



## HiCZoK

yes yes, CAL!s are still on my list 
  xb600 and cal are the same price btw. heard that they are packing different drivers in cals nowadays
   
  It's just a gaming forum and some dude. Not audio forum like this


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Did you pair it with the E12?
> 
> I am thinking about a TH-600 sometime for console gaming.


 
  Yup. Used the E12 and mixamp together. If you buy them you will not regret it at all.


----------



## FlyingRock

Hey everyone! I love this forum, I lurk it all the time but I am a very poor college student who cant afford hifi gear.. (hopefully that will change down the line) which is why I never registered, or posted till now.. haha. Anyways long story short i'm looking for a pair of headphones that'll do me over till I can take the plunge and buy a set or two of "real" cans, I play with a very competitive lot on the console so I decided I should probably figure something out to help "keep up" with their $150+ gaming headsets, Obviously being a poor student I had to find the cheaper alternatives..
   
  After looking up prices and reviews I ended up stuck between the KSC75 + PX200 pads ($22) or the HD681's ($30)
  They'll be paired with a TB DSS and The location I live in is pretty quiet, we have a dog who barks some times and we're a pretty loud (talking wise) but its nothing too extreme..
   
  I have some questions about them both:
  KSC75's: Are they thin or tinny at all? I've heard that they are, but others say they arent so Im a little confused lol
  HD681's: Are the highs really That bad? I've read that they are horrifyingly bad by some but others say they're not That bad..
   
   
  I know there's the 661B and the 850's as well but i'm more curious about the 681's given their current discounted price.
   
  Anyways thank you for your help ahead of time! =)


----------



## DemonFox

hiczok said:


> Thanks for answer. There seem to be some really crazy opposite opinions about xb600. i even emailed the dude on other forum and he says he likes em better than ath50m. What
> So in fact - now I am looking for good isolating "fun" headphones for mainly gaming (immersively not competitevely) and some music, movies. (100 or sub 100$ please - I will use em with sbz or xonar dg. I am still reading on those 2 sound cards)
> 
> I will try to give xb600 a try in the store, If I will see them around to confirm(or not) Your disqust with them




No problem and trying them for yourself will definitely be the best choice for you. Sounds like you want over ear closed back correct? 

I only had the CAL's for a short period of time so I don't remember if they isolated well or not but ultimately I wasn't a fan. Not bad at all, just didn't like them. 

What about the new old school Sony's??
The MDR-7506? Great isolation and comfort crazy detail and under $100 ($85 new on Amazon) may want to check there. 

Just a thought 


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





flyingrock said:


> Hey everyone! I love this forum, I lurk it all the time but I am a very poor college student who cant afford hifi gear.. (hopefully that will change down the line) which is why I never registered, or posted till now.. haha. Anyways long story short i'm looking for a pair of headphones that'll do me over till I can take the plunge and buy a set or two of "real" cans, I play with a very competitive lot on the console so I decided I should probably figure something out to help "keep up" with their $150+ gaming headsets, Obviously being a poor student I had to find the cheaper alternatives..
> 
> After looking up prices and reviews I ended up stuck between the KSC75 + PX200 pads ($22) or the HD681's ($30)
> They'll be paired with a TB DSS and The location I live in is pretty quiet, we have a dog who barks some times and we're a pretty loud (talking wise) but its nothing too extreme..
> ...


 
  I think the KSC75 or SportaPro/PortaPro is a great place to start, I've had my PortaPros for many years now and they're still enjoyable.  The KSC75 is a bit brighter than the other two due to the driver design using titanium, some may consider them more harsh or fatiguing in comparison to the other two.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Ok... I prefer just dealing manually swapping out... been doing that for years, as all of my headphone amps have only one analog input, and I use it for both PS3 - Mixamp use, and PC/DAC use. Even now, if I play on my Mixamp and want the better amping of my Compass 2, I have to remove the cable that goes from my laptop gaming setup just to attach my PS3 setup.


 
   
  You need something like this:
  http://www.amazon.com/TC-716-Stereo-Selector-BLACK-VERSION/dp/B0001F347K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372894964&sr=8-1&keywords=stereo+source+selector
   
  Just plug all of your sources and all of your amps into it, then use the switches to do all your connecting.  I have my Mixamp, DSS, ODAC, M-stage, and my iCan ALL plugged into it, and I can use any combination of them simply by toggling their switch ON/OFF.  I don't have to touch any cables.  It's completely passive so it doesn't affect the sound and just functions like a box of interconnects with toggle switches.
   
  The FiiO HS2 is also useful, but it can only do 1 path at a time, so it's either one input to 4 selectable outputs or 4 selectable inputs to 1 output (your amp).


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> ... and my iCan ALL plugged into it...


 
  Speaking of the iCAN, I just received the one I ordered from Amazon. It is the newer version with the gain switches and I absolutely love it...
   
  I'm still following down your gear path... hehehe...


----------



## Sinister596

Mad, what do you think of the PC363d's?


----------



## Sinister596

Also, if anyone is using the Xonar STX what channel settings and DSP modes, Dolby Headphone, 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter, Dolby Pro LogicIIX do you guys have enabled?
   
  I use the ATH-AD700's atm and I play usually on 8 channels with Dolby Headphone on the DH-2 setting and I don't really notice any positional cues. And when I play on 2 channels with dolby headphone enabled on the same setting and I have prologic IIx enabled the sound seems to only come from my left headphone driver. :| I don't know which is the one I should be using for the best advantage possible, could anyone help me out here?
   
  How would the combination of AKG K701's + Xonar STX with the default op-amps swapped out for LME49720x2 be in terms of pure analytical detail and sound whoring? I really don't give a **** about bass. Just pure analytical sound cues for fps games.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Speaking of the iCAN, I just received the one I ordered from Amazon. It is the newer version with the gain switches and I absolutely love it...
> 
> I'm still following down your gear path... hehehe...


 
   
  Sweet!
   
  I love the iCan.  The switches are a lot of fun, and it can be hard to go back to a "plain" amp after using them.
   
  How did you order it from amazon?  I had to order it through one the hi-fi store distributors.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Sweet!
> 
> I love the iCan.  The switches are a lot of fun, and it can be hard to go back to a "plain" amp after using them.
> 
> How did you order it from amazon?  I had to order it through one the hi-fi store distributors.


 
   
  One of their distributors just recently opened a seller's account
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=&isAmazonFulfilled=1&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&orderID=&seller=ANRTP1S6IG2HW
   
  I did the honors of giving them their first review


----------



## deanorthk

re hi
  So my exact setup is
   
  audio setup
  BURSON DA 160 DAC (with only digital coaxial in working)
  Burson Soloist (3 analog input) / Burson HA 160 ((1 analog input) unused
  Senn HD650/ Grado PS 1000
  
  Imac -> M2tech coaxial -> DA 160
   
  PC -> U3/U7 -> analog -> Soloist input 2
   
  PS3 -> Mixamp -> analog -> Soloist input 3
   
  That's the point, since the U7 offer analog out, I can attack my solist directly.
  As it is now, anyway, if I need another DAC so my PS3 and PC can attack then after the soloist... as you said, it's hard to know if the U7 can passthrough the dolby headphone signal untouched.
  sorry if I can't explain things clrealy, but beeing french, my english can be sometimes..Erhm...froggy?
   
  I kinda think that maybe it could be LESS a problem if I buy another small DAC that let the sound from the PS3 and the PC goes to the HA 160 amp, with my HD 650 connected permanently, and so be it...


----------



## HiCZoK

demonfox said:


> No problem and trying them for yourself will definitely be the best choice for you. Sounds like you want over ear closed back correct?
> 
> I only had the CAL's for a short period of time so I don't remember if they isolated well or not but ultimately I wasn't a fan. Not bad at all, just didn't like them.
> 
> ...



Correct.
7506 seems nice and old school but they are twice the price of cal or xb600 here in Poland.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just made a 12 minute video about the Koss KSC75, 35, Sportapro, Parts express headphone, Yuin G1A, and how they're interchangeable headbands/clips, etc.

Gotta wait until I get home to upload it to the 'tubes though.

I fumbled my words a lot, and said 'like' and 'umm' quite a bit. 

It's all good.


----------



## HolyCheese

Hey MLE, 
   
  I have a question for you. I use my e10 for sp/dif but my laptop has Dolby Home Theater, i don't know if it has dolby headphone or anything. Is it possible to pass that signal trough the e10?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, the E10 is USB only. The SPDIF on the E10 is an OUT only. The E10 isn't capable of taking ANY inputs, and starts as the first part of the audio chain through it's USB, meaning you can't feed anything into it. The D03K, D07, E17 are the only Fiio devices that take in spdif signals).

Unless your laptop has an SPDIF out, you'll have to use the headphone jack on it and attach it to another amp (double amping just to keep Dolby Home Theater). That, and it's not even certain your SPDIF out on the laptop (if it has one) would keep Dolby Digital, let alone Dolby headphone.

I'm not sure if Home Theater has Dolby Headphone.


----------



## pietcux

Dolby Home Theater includes Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1q9t6PAl2E[/VIDEO]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1q9t6PAl2E

My Koss 75, 35, Sportapro vid.

Please like and sub.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just made a 12 minute video about the Koss KSC75, 35, Sportapro, Parts express headphone, Yuin G1A, and how they're interchangeable headbands/clips, etc.
> 
> Gotta wait until I get home to upload it to the 'tubes though.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Tiny bit of editing with some B-roll footage can clear those out in no time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno if I have the patience for that. I'll have to play with it later. Lol.


----------



## FlyingRock

Quote: 





modulor said:


> I think the KSC75 or SportaPro/PortaPro is a great place to start, I've had my PortaPros for many years now and they're still enjoyable.  The KSC75 is a bit brighter than the other two due to the driver design using titanium, some may consider them more harsh or fatiguing in comparison to the other two.


 
  Awesome, I'll most likely get those, they're cheap enough anyways haha.. I don't mind harsher highs, I've been forced to listen to alot of music on a very harsh set of speakers for a few years now so i've sort of "adjusted" My only issue is them sounding airy/hallow (for that price and size my brain cant fathom them sounding any other way lol)


----------



## HolyCheese

I meant that I could use the e10's spdif out to feed my dac. Thus feeding dolby digital to my e10 with usb. But I guess it won't be possible. I am using my x1 straight out of my laptop and it's definitely an increase for gaming. Quality is not that important anyway.
   
  This is what it looks like:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone is tied to your internal soundcard. USB dac = external soundcard. Meaning you can't send dac info into another dac in that way. You can only use one source at a time. You HAVE to use your soundcard as the main device for DH

From the looks of that software, you can clearly see the Headphone virtualizer on the bottom right. The only issue there is that you can't see where it goes from a Dolby headphone 2 equivalent to Dolby headphone 3 (a reverb-y mess). Or are the sliders for volume, and not surround effect?

this is how it looks on the Creative...



And on the Xonar (no slider, just a choice between the 3 DH modes.



Also, not sure if you knew this or not, but make sure your sound device is set to 5.1 or 7.1, because if not, you won't get proper DH, THX Tru Studio, etc.

.

Despite what the image shows, the Xonar U3 digital out isn't tweakable (but the top one is, which directly affects the digital out anyways)


----------



## Fegefeuer

Is there a device like the U3/U7 that outputs DHP via coaxial?


----------



## Evshrug

No.
But you can get a U3 and an Optical to Coax conversion cable, probably cheaper than a U7.


----------



## spikes

Have a quick question regarding the guide, is the review of the akg k702 65th annie and the great stuff written about it also true for the new K712 which seams to be the same thing with a differnet colour?


----------



## Sinister596

MLE, what are your opinions/thoughts on the PC363D?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





sinister596 said:


> MLE, what are your opinions/thoughts on the PC363D?


 
   
  The PC363D is a special edition of the *PC360 *(already reviewed on the front page, and discussed a ton throughout the thread).
   
  If you search this thread for "PC363D", you will see all this information has already been mentioned.


----------



## HolyCheese

Thanx MLE,  Unfortunately I can't set it to 7.1. I only have an option for stereo. And I guess I'll set the slider to half. Maybe that's better.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone is tied to your internal soundcard. USB dac = external soundcard. Meaning you can't send dac info into another dac in that way. You can only use one source at a time. You HAVE to use your soundcard as the main device for DH
> 
> From the looks of that software, you can clearly see the Headphone virtualizer on the bottom right. The only issue there is that you can't see where it goes from a Dolby headphone 2 equivalent to Dolby headphone 3 (a reverb-y mess). Or are the sliders for volume, and not surround effect?
> 
> ...


 
  In Dolby Home Theater the slider is for the room size like in Dolby Headphone. But here you have a step less operation between small and large room. With the U7 you can only get Dolby Headphone functionality when using the headphone out. The line out seems to be bound to Dolby virtual speaker.


----------



## HiCZoK

So ive already discussed headphones here. I will prolly get cal after listening to them.
Now about sound card.
External or internal? Or maybe separate dacamp?
Xonar dg or dx or sound blaster z?

And whats the deal with that dolby headphone?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> So ive already discussed headphones here. I will prolly get cal after listening to them.
> Now about sound card.
> External or internal? Or maybe separate dacamp?
> Xonar DG or DX or sound blaster z?
> ...


 
  The Asus Xonar DX (& D1) sound card is a good card, but does not have a headphone amplifier.
  So it's a good choice if you have a separate external headphone amplifier to plug into it.
   
  Better just to buy the Xonar DG, Amazon sometimes sells used ones for $20,
  comes with a basic headphone amp.


----------



## HiCZoK

What about external sound cards like u7 or xfi usb ?


----------



## Evshrug

They have pluses... and minuses. In a practical sense however, I was happy with my Recon3D USB. That said, if internal soundcards worked with Mac (or even if my Mac could boot with a soundcard and just ignore it, use onboard sound instead), I would choose a Creative Sound Blaster Z or ZxR for myself. Your mileage may vary. PurpleAngel's suggestion is viable if you like Dolby Headphone to process your headphone surround, for my ears DH works Okay but other processing sounds better to me.


----------



## deanorthk

I really wish I could get an internal soundcard, but no space left the the Z77 shuttle XPC, dual slot GFX card stuck...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hiczok said:


> So ive already discussed headphones here. I will prolly get cal after listening to them.
> Now about sound card.
> External or internal? Or maybe separate dacamp?
> Xonar dg or dx or sound blaster z?
> ...




Look at the first video on the first post, and listen at the time frames I mention. Just plug your headphones in and listen. If you like what you hear, then Dolby Headphone is for you. If you don't, you might be better off with Creative's virtual surround (THX Tru Studio), which sounds a little less processed, but not as spacious. CMSS-3D is another one, but I personally don't care for it. I prefer Dolby Headphone over THX Tru Studio, but the latter still works pretty well, and I like it a lot.

Seriously, its a quick demo.

I don't like the other youtube demos, as they don't represent DH properly to me.

The problem with virtual surround DSPs is that the effect varies on a game to game basis. Some games do it well, others...not so much. Like on the vid, DH sounds more reverb-y than what I'm used to. I'm wondering if he's doing DH3, not DH2. Or something in between.

Also, if you use Dolby Headphone 1, it well be the least processed, and sound on par with THX Tru Studio. Since I prefer DH, if I was anal about reverb, I would go with Dolby Headphone 1 over THX Tru Studio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The vid tag didn't work last time:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1q9t6PAl2E[/VIDEO]


----------



## HiCZoK

Thanks mle. I think I like it.
So dol y headphone is on xonars and thx or cmss is on creative?

U7 supports dolby headphone ?


----------



## Evshrug

Nice vid Mad!
Informative, good summary of things you've learned so far. I bought a pair of Koss KSC75's a couple months back cuz I needed a portable pair, sometimes the clips and treble get fatiguing after a while, but overall they sound better than they have any right to sound, and are my most versatile headphone.
One idea, write a general outline of topics for you to cover. You'll know when you've covered what you want to say, and you'll know what you're going to talk about next, in general it helps you speak more confidently and smoothly with very little effort. When I write reviews or even essays, I write an outline then go back and fill it in, the organization actually makes my total time spent less.

I have a new headphone incoming!
You might be proud, but then you might be disappointed when you find out *which* headphones they are. They should be pretty decent though, I'll share my impressions when I get them! With a DSS and all my amps!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> No.
> But you can get a U3 and an Optical to Coax conversion cable, probably cheaper than a U7.


 
   
  You mean converter. That's what I always want to avoid. It's an active device that also comes with a PSU. Too much clutter for a Notebook.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, unless you can hide it behind the desk, it is quite a bit of devices tethered to one another. But they're small, so they aren't that hard to hide. It is very much cheaper than the U7 alone. MUCH.

Evs... I have no clue. I'd say the X1, but I dunno if that's the kind of sound you like.

Playing some Batman: Arkham City with THX Tru Studio. Really good positional cues, though it's off in that even when the person talking is close to Batman, they sound like 7 feet away. I'll have to test it with DH to see if it's an in game thing, or THX being wonky.


----------



## Chubtoad

Does anybody else have an issue with a buzzing/humming noise coming through their headphones? It's really driving me nuts I can't get rid of it. Basically i can hear it when there is no noise happening and the amp volume is to high. Example: sitting at the xmb on the ps3 or the desktop on my pc. On low gain mode the volume has to be turned up more obviously than on high gain mode. On high gain mode the buzz/hum is amplified like 10x where I can barely turn the knob past 7 o clockish.

The thing is then, when I start a game up, the noise gets louder. For example ill use world of warcraft since I am playing that on pc ATM. I can be sitting at the desktop and its fairly quiet and when I start up the game to the login screen the buzz/hum gets quite loud. You can't really hear it when the game sound is on but when it gets quiet you can hear it in the background. 

Is this normal ? I realize all electronics can have noises but its just annoying as hell to hear it and be constantly fiddling with the volume knob. I've read about people having issues with a hum noise coming from the amp itself but this isn't coming from the amp I can put my ear right on it and its dead silent so it's just comig through the headphones.

I don't have any other amps or headphones to test out so I'm at a loss if this isn't normal. I've tried plugging the amp directly into the wall and also through my surge protector


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, Yuin G1A...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I want FiiO to bring their own "Mixamp". They would definitely do much better than all the other contenders, especially with signal quality.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, unless you can hide it behind the desk, it is quite a bit of devices tethered to one another. But they're small, so they aren't that hard to hide. It is very much cheaper than the U7 alone. MUCH.
> 
> Evs... I have no clue. I'd say the X1, but I dunno if that's the kind of sound you like.
> 
> Playing some Batman: Arkham City with THX Tru Studio. Really good positional cues, though it's off in that even when the person talking is close to Batman, they sound like 7 feet away. I'll have to test it with DH to see if it's an in game thing, or THX being wonky.


 
  I didnt have such an issue with Arkham City (PS3) if my memory serves me right. I would say it should improve with DH? Let us know


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's an in game thing. The sounds are positioning around Batman, and not the screen, which is why I thought it was so weird. if I'm pushed up next to someone talking, they sound slightly further away than they are.


----------



## Chubtoad

Arnt most games that way? Positioned around your character and not the screen?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, it seems to be related to the screen, not the character.


----------



## raif89

So I've been looking at some headphones on the list and looking at your ranking of them. I live in Israel and the prices are much different here than they are listed here. If I were to have the following options what would you suggest as far as best bang/buck
   
  AKG 701 - $438
  Sennheiser HD 598 - $402
  Sennheiser PC 350 - $191
   
  I'm using it for gaming sure, but nothing competitive. This is more for use in TS3 and such so that people don't hear background noise and for some good sound. Would either of those 400$ headphones be worth it? I mean they're almost twice the price you've mentioned. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





raif89 said:


> AKG 701 - $438
> Sennheiser HD 598 - $402
> Sennheiser PC 350 - $191
> 
> Would either of those 400$ headphones be worth it?


 
  We can both of these here for $250, so definitely not worth that much. Also, all 3 are competitive focused. They won't be too fun to listen to. Also, all 3 are open, so sound leaks in, and you'll be able to hear everything going on around you outside the game.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PC350 is NOT open.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> PC350 is NOT open.


 

 Wait, what?
   
  *turns out they're nothing like the PC360s*
   
  The power of Sennheiser naming!


----------



## raif89

Quote: 





daleb said:


> We can both of these here for $250, so definitely not worth that much. Also, all 3 are competitive focused. They won't be too fun to listen to. Also, all 3 are open, so sound leaks in, and you'll be able to hear everything going on around you outside the game.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> PC350 is NOT open.


 
  Well there is the DT990 PRO which is $328. That better? 
   
  I prefer open cause I'm not a huge fan of headphones and don't like the heating that ensues when wearing them.


----------



## HiCZoK

Sorry, I don't think I've catched the response first time. On what sound cards do I get dolby headphone and what soundcard do You guys recommend for gaming on CAL! (I decided on those)
  I like the look and volume know of external sound cards like x-fi usb or u7 but I do have space and money to get sound blaster z or just xonar dg. getting xonar d1 or dx is anything reasonable to get or if I went with xonar line, then jsut dg ?
   
  Is front jack on dg amplified ?
   
  or recon3d. It also works with xbox360 (edit - oh nevermind. it is for headphones only)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> Sorry, I don't think I've catched the response first time. On what sound cards do I get Dolby Headphone and what sound card do You guys recommend for gaming on CAL! (I decided on those)
> I like the look and volume know of external sound cards like x-fi usb or u7 but I do have space and money to get Sound Blaster Z or just Xonar DG. getting Xonar D1 or DX is anything reasonable to get or if I went with xonar line, then just DG ?
> Is front jack on dg amplified ?
> or recon3d. It also works with xbox360 (edit - oh nevermind. it is for headphones only)


 
  Most Xonar sound cards come with Dolby Headphone, the Xonar DS/DSX do not come with Dolby, but do come with DTS.
   
  The Xonar DX/D1 are good sound cards, but lack a headphone amplifier, so the DX/D1 would really only be a good choice if you were going to use them with an external headphone amplifier.
   
  The Xonar DG/DGX sound card come with a very basic headphone amplifier, which can work with the back panel and the front of case headphone jack.
   
  The SBZ (Sound Blaster Z) come with a better DAC chip (CS4398, which is also used on the Xonar DX/D1) then the Xonar DG/DGX/DS/DGX
  and the SBZ comes with a better head amp then the DG/DGX.
   
  I think it's better to spend $20 for a used Xonar DG and spend the rest of your budget for the headphones (CALs?).


----------



## HiCZoK

Thanks. I will think a bit more about it but If I can use praised Dolby headphone with dg/dgx (actually is connection pci/pcie the only difference here?) and have better sound than onboard, then it's ok. That is, if dx/d1 or sbz doesnt actually provide much better audio than dg.
  both dx and sbz are 2,5-3 times more expensive than new xonar dg. But I am leaning towards DG thanks to its price and headphone amplifier. And thanks to it being available for pci slot. I have more of these and more space in that part of the case.
   
  I will also add that I have a good fractal case with very good front jack on the top of the case. It is easily accessible and I want to continue to use it. Fractal case have good shielding and quality on their front ports.
   
  OORRRR
   
   
  I could go external - but I would go with external sound card ONLY if it also worked at least passively with my 360 and allow to have headphones and speaers plugged in the same time and a volume know.
  I dont have any receiver or anything and I am always looking for a way to connect my pc and console, speakers and headphoenes to one "box" on the desk and use that for all audio. 
  But the problem is that most external sound cards require pc drivers and would only operate if pc was turned on right ?
   
  edit: and yes. Whenever I will get dg or sbz or external thingy, my budget for headphones doesn't change I think. I WILL do some listening of headphones in store next week but I am pretty much set on CAL!. Everyone says those are one of best headphones ever and I would have to raise the budget on headphones quite above cal price, to get better cans


----------



## Zalbik

Can we have a quick chat about comfort?
   
  I can look at the numbers you have listed in the gaming guide for comfort on the different headphones and I can look at other guides on this site for the same but for someone, me, who has only tried on the headphones they have at Bestbuy the numbers listed for comfort have very little meaning for me but I consider it just as important as the sound. I typically game for 3-4 hours late night after the kids are in bed and would like to have the sound I have with my speakers so I need to get headphones. 
   
  Headphone that did not feel good to wear:
  Pain = Sony - X-Series
  Misery = Sennheiser HD 380
  Death = Sennheiser HD 280
  There is no way I could play for 10-minutes with any of the above headphones. Some felt too bulky while others felt like the clamp of doom. 
   
   
  Headphones that did feel good to wear:
  Heaven = Pioneer HDJ-2000-K
  Tolerable = Koss-ProDJ200
   
For both the headphones that did feel good to wear I really did not like the sound. Koss-ProDJ200 sounded muffled to me while the Pioneer HDJ-2000-K lost clarity when the volume went up so even though I like how they feel on my head I just cannot justify either of them for the prices listed.
   
If anyone could recommend headphones that feel like either of the 2 listed that I like to wear I would appreciate it. Then I could start to decide where to go from there.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> Thanks. I will think a bit more about it but If I can use praised Dolby headphone with dg/dgx (actually is connection pci/pcie the only difference here?) and have better sound than on-board, then it's OK. That is, if dx/d1 or sbz doesnt actually provide much better audio than dg.
> both dx and sbz are 2,5-3 times more expensive than new Xonar DG. But I am leaning towards DG thanks to its price and headphone amplifier. And thanks to it being available for PCI slot. I have more of these and more space in that part of the case.
> I will also add that I have a good fractal case with very good front jack on the top of the case. It is easily accessible and I want to continue to use it. Fractal case have good shielding and quality on their front ports.
> OORRRR
> ...


 
  Xonar DG/DGX are the same card, except for the PCI/PCI-E interface.
  Your looking at spending way more cash if you go external, over internal.
  The Fiio E10 external USB/DAC/Amp is $64, but it's 2-channel audio, but does not offer sound sound features.
  I prefer the Takstar Pro 80 (Gemini HSR-1000) headphones over CALS, the CALs have good sound, but the cups are too small for my ears.
   
  Get the Xonar DG for the PC and buy the Astro Mix-amp for use with the console.


----------



## HiCZoK

Heh... either astro mixamp and takstar headphones are not available in Poland. Nowhere. Not even auction sites. And those gemini indeed look good
I still have an amplifier which came with my older tactic360 sigms creative headphones so i could still use that for console.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zalbik said:


> Can we have a quick chat about comfort?
> 
> I can look at the numbers you have listed in the gaming guide for comfort on the different headphones and I can look at other guides on this site for the same but for someone, me, who has only tried on the headphones they have at Bestbuy the numbers listed for comfort have very little meaning for me but I consider it just as important as the sound. I typically game for 3-4 hours late night after the kids are in bed and would like to have the sound I have with my speakers so I need to get headphones.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  All the headphones you listed are what I would consider more _medium sized closed_ heapdhones.  They're  also using_ leather/pleather pads_.  In my experience, the_ full-size circumaural open _phones with _velour _pads are usually more comfortable.


----------



## liquiflux

Thanks for the great thread Mad Lust Envy. I'm looking for an amp to pair with mostly with SR-850s and FA-011s, and whatever other headphones  I end up getting down the line. I already have an X-Fi HD, which is great, but I think the FA-011s could benefit from some extra power. I'm considering the Magni or the O2, but I might be willing to spend a little more if the the performance justifies it. Mainly I want something that is very clear and of course has a good soundstage. What would you recommend as a step up from the Magni or O2?


----------



## Chubtoad

Hey MLE since you have heard both the DT 990 600 ohms and the X1, how would you compare there bass, as in deep bass levels?  If I wanted to eventually get a 2nd pair of headphones to go alongside my Annies I wouldn't mind something with some deep bass on them. I would assume the asgard 2 could sufficiently power a 600 ohm headphone without much problem?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, Yuin G1A...



Nope.




mad lust envy said:


> .
> Evs... I have no clue. I'd say the X1, but I dunno if that's the kind of sound you like.
> 
> Playing some Batman: Arkham City with THX Tru Studio. Really good positional cues, though it's off in that even when the person talking is close to Batman, they sound like 7 feet away. I'll have to test it with DH to see if it's an in game thing, or THX being wonky.



Nope, but you're right to guess in the direction of a signature I normally wouldn't choose. I think I've got good complimentary headphones on the way.
Batman AC is one of my games I bought but is sitting in my backlog. Enjoying yourself? Seems like you learned more about surround in that game, are you enjoying it more now? I would think that if distance would be a problem with THX TSP, it would still have that sort of issue with DH. But you're equipped to test for yourself. I wonder if you'll find one processing to be best with some games and the other with others?

I'm really tired, but I'm taking stuff out from my car. Tomorrow, I'm trading it in at the dealership for my first non-hand-me-down, purchased car! I'd be lying if I denied that the Golf's much nicer sound system contributed to the sense that I was getting a much nicer car than the Chevy Sonic, for just a little more money. I'm... So... Excited!
*snore....*


----------



## NamelessPFG

Not to derail the discussion too much, but...1001 pages.
   
  ONE THOUSAND AND ONE PAGES, with a current total of 15,002 posts.
   
  At this rate, we'll need a second thread, just like how they had to make a new Stax thread over in the High-end Audio section a long time ago.


----------



## HiCZoK

denon 1001 anyone ?
  Now I really have to get CAL!


----------



## raif89

Double post for some reason


----------



## raif89

Quote: 





raif89 said:


> Well there is the DT990 PRO which is $328. That better?
> 
> I prefer open cause I'm not a huge fan of headphones and don't like the heating that ensues when wearing them.


 
  Oh I'd be using these with an Asus Xonar STX. Is that enough to make use of those headphones? And that's pretty much the best price I can find for that headphone, is it actually worth it?


----------



## Dillweed

Hey, gaming people. So, I've been using a pair of DT880s for the past year and a half, but I've kind of gotten tired of their lack of front-rear depth, pushed back mids, and slightly bright highs. Does anybody know of a headphone with much better depth and imaging in general, better mids/more neutral sound, and maybe just a decent overall upgrade from the sound of the DT880? I've tried to read up on what I can, but it sounds like I'd only get what I'm after if I moved up to something like the HD800.
   
  I posted in Nameless's thread about this but didn't really get any responses so I figured I'd ask here. Just let me know if I should make a separate thread asking for recommendations instead.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hey, gaming people. So, I've been using a pair of DT880s for the past year and a half, but I've kind of gotten tired of their lack of front-rear depth, pushed back mids, and slightly bright highs. Does anybody know of a headphone with much better depth and imaging in general, better mids/more neutral sound, and maybe just a decent overall upgrade from the sound of the DT880? I've tried to read up on what I can, but it sounds like I'd only get what I'm after if I moved up to something like the HD800.
> 
> I posted in Nameless's thread about this but didn't really get any responses so I figured I'd ask here. Just let me know if I should make a separate thread asking for recommendations instead.


 
  Perhaps the AKG K702 65th Anniversaries?  What are you using to amp right now (if any)?  The HD800 is very picky apparently.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





raif89 said:


> Oh I'd be using these with an Asus Xonar STX. Is that enough to make use of those headphones? And that's pretty much the best price I can find for that headphone, is it actually worth it?


 
  The Xonar Essence STX can easily drive 250-Ohm Beyerdynamic headphones.


----------



## 3X0

dillweed said:


> Does anybody know of a headphone with much better depth and imaging in general, better mids/more neutral sound, and maybe just a decent overall upgrade from the sound of the DT880? I've tried to read up on what I can, but it sounds like I'd only get what I'm after if I moved up to something like the HD800.




Yup.


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





modulor said:


> Perhaps the AKG K702 65th Anniversaries?  What are you using to amp right now (if any)?  The HD800 is very picky apparently.


 
  I'm using a Lovely Cube (cheap Black Cube Linear clone) and several op amps for tweaking the sound. Supposedly the HD800 pairs well with the BCL, but I don't know if that would extend to the Lovely Cube.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hey, gaming people. So, I've been using a pair of DT880s for the past year and a half, but I've kind of gotten tired of their lack of front-rear depth, pushed back mids, and slightly bright highs. Does anybody know of a headphone with much better depth and imaging in general, better mids/more neutral sound, and maybe just a decent overall upgrade from the sound of the DT880? I've tried to read up on what I can, but it sounds like I'd only get what I'm after if I moved up to something like the HD800.
> 
> I posted in Nameless's thread about this but didn't really get any responses so I figured I'd ask here. Just let me know if I should make a separate thread asking for recommendations instead.


 
  Maybe(?) switching to a tube amp. might improve the audio quality of the DT880?
  (Are they DT880 250-Ohm or DT880 600-Ohm?)


----------



## Dillweed

They're 250 ohm, but I kind of doubt that a tube amp will really do much to the sound. I already have them running on an OPA627BP to smooth out the harsher highs, and I'm guessing my other issues with it are probably just fundamental problems with the DT880 sound.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> They're 250 ohm, but I kind of doubt that a tube amp will really do much to the sound. I already have them running on an OPA627BP to smooth out the harsher highs, and I'm guessing my other issues with it are probably just fundamental problems with the DT880 sound.


 
  I guess there is always upgrading to the DT880 Premium 600-Ohm?
   
  Anyway maybe try posting about the stuff your unhappy with about the DT880 on this thread, maybe they can figure out how to get better audio from the DT880s?
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/429371/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-appreciation-discussion-thread
   
  Hate to see you spend a lot of cash on headphones for something that a better amp might solve.
   
  What DAC are you using?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> They're 250 ohm, but I kind of doubt that a tube amp will really do much to the sound. I already have them running on an OPA627BP to smooth out the harsher highs, and I'm guessing my other issues with it are probably just fundamental problems with the DT880 sound.


 

 Tube amps are amazing, though!
   
  But mostly, your problems with it won't change. It'll sound better, sure, but it won't change their signature.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Not to derail the discussion too much, but...1001 pages.
> 
> ONE THOUSAND AND ONE PAGES, with a current total of 15,002 posts.
> 
> At this rate, we'll need a second thread, just like how they had to make a new Stax thread over in the High-end Audio section a long time ago.



WOW, This should be noticed! Hooray Mad, for finding a hot topic and always throwing more fuel on the fire with the latest greatest headphone!


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I guess there is always upgrading to the DT880 Premium 600-Ohm?


 
  Hahaha, no, I'm pretty sure I'm good with one pair of DT880s.
   


> Anyway maybe try posting about the stuff your unhappy with about the DT880 on this thread, maybe they can figure out how to get better audio from the DT880s?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/429371/the-beyerdynamic-dt880-appreciation-discussion-thread
> 
> Hate to see you spend a lot of cash on headphones for something that a better amp might solve.


 
  Yeah, I might as well ask there and see if anyone has an idea I haven't tried already. Thanks. I think it's likely that I'll need to consider an expensive upgrade, though.
   


> What DAC are you using?


 
  I'm actually using the Titanium HD in my PC. I've tried it on a couple of different setups to see how they change the sound, but besides doing things like just smoothing out the harshness, warming the sound and increasing the bass, or making it extremely sibilant, my other general problems with the depth and positioning seem to be present on everything. I have a feeling that it's simply the DT880 sound, and my ears don't conform to the driver placement or I simply don't enjoy them as much as other people do. Granted, being able to change its overall sound pretty radically from system to system is nice and obviously an advantage for people who enjoy that sound in the first place and want to switch out different components to shape the sound signature to work with different genres of music, and I'm fine with how they sound with most music. But for me, the majority of their use is all games and movies, and they just seem to lack any real depth or ability to emulate three-dimensional space and end up kind of disappointing for it. They can get fairly wide, but that seems to be most of it, for me at least.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hahaha, no, I'm pretty sure I'm good with one pair of DT880s.
> 
> Yeah, I might as well ask there and see if anyone has an idea I haven't tried already. Thanks. I think it's likely that I'll need to consider an expensive upgrade, though.
> 
> I'm actually using the Titanium HD in my PC. I've tried it on a couple of different setups to see how they change the sound, but besides doing things like just smoothing out the harshness, warming the sound and increasing the bass, or making it extremely sibilant, my other general problems with the depth and positioning seem to be present on everything. I have a feeling that it's simply the DT880 sound, and my ears don't conform to the driver placement or I simply don't enjoy them as much as other people do. Granted, being able to change its overall sound pretty radically from system to system is nice and obviously an advantage for people who enjoy that sound in the first place and want to switch out different components to shape the sound signature to work with different genres of music, and I'm fine with how they sound with most music. But for me, the majority of their use is all games and movies, and they just seem to lack any real depth or ability to emulate three-dimensional space and end up kind of disappointing for it. They can get fairly wide, but that seems to be most of it, for me at least.


 
  (My brain has hard time understanding your situation as I really like the sound of my DT880 Premium 600-Ohm plugged into my O2 amp or Yamaha receiver, but then again I've never used the DT880s for gaming)
   
  I'm assuming with the Titanium HD your plugging the headphone amplifier into the RCA outputs (not the headphone jack)?
   
  Wonder in the AKG Q701 would work better for the audio you want?


----------



## Dillweed

Yeah, the RCA-outs are going directly into the Lovely Cube, which the DT880s are plugged into. I had been kind of looking at the Q701s and K702 Annies at one point, but was told to look elsewhere by people who have run into various quality control issues with AKG in the past. That's basically what led me to read about the HD800, T1, HE-400/HE-500 types of headphones, and what basically brought me to the conclusion that the HD800 sound is probably what I'm looking for, albeit an expensive-as-hell option for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They talk about QC issues in AKG, but redirect you to Hifiman? Lol. Every single HE400 I owned failed, including the one I sold, which was a replacement for one that was having problems. The buyer contacted me a few months after, telling me the right driver failed. Good thing Hifiman heped him out.

Then there's Beyerdynamic which has to have the most inconsistency in terms of headphone to headphone variation. You don't know if you'll get a dud or a good one.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hey, gaming people. So, I've been using a pair of DT880s for the past year and a half, but I've kind of gotten tired of their lack of front-rear depth, pushed back mids, and slightly bright highs. Does anybody know of a headphone with much better depth and imaging in general, better mids/more neutral sound, and maybe just a decent overall upgrade from the sound of the DT880? I've tried to read up on what I can, but it sounds like I'd only get what I'm after if I moved up to something like the HD800.
> 
> I posted in Nameless's thread about this but didn't really get any responses so I figured I'd ask here. Just let me know if I should make a separate thread asking for recommendations instead.


 
  If you have a chance, give the Th-600 a listen. For gaming/movies I would take these over the HD800 all day. You can easily forget the Th-600 are closed because the sound stage is amazing. The HD800 are great for gaming, but the highs just really were too piercing for me. I watched my first movie last night with the Fostex and they blew me away.


----------



## Evshrug

I remember two... Three people talking about their problems with their AKG bass, suddenly somebody comes in and assumes that is representative of all of the AKG "flagships." I haven't heard any statistically significant figures to back up "AKG has QC issues" (I'm biased because mine work great), unlike the launch Xbox 360 RROD failure rate being like 1 out of three consoles went bad from heat issues within the first three years (which is very statistically significant), which caused Microsoft to modify their terms of warranty.

I think I already gave Dillweed my suggestions, right? I'm go sleep NAOW.


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They talk about QC issues in AKG, but redirect you to Hifiman? Lol. Every single HE400 I owned failed, including the one I sold, which was a replacement for one that was having problems.


 
   No no no, sorry, I was just listing off ones I'd been looking into myself. Nobody here pointed me in the direction of anything specific to Beyer or HiFiMAN or whatever, I'd just been reading over people's reviews and descriptions of the sound signatures and those happened to be in there.
   


> Then there's Beyerdynamic which has to have the most inconsistency in terms of headphone to headphone variation. You don't know if you'll get a dud or a good one.


 
  I've experienced this first hand and read about it after I originally got the DT880s, as my first pair had pretty bad channel imbalance.

   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I remember two... Three people talking about their problems with their AKG bass, suddenly somebody comes in and assumes that is representative of all of the AKG "flagships." I haven't heard any statistically significant figures to back up "AKG has QC issues"


 
  All I know is the various anecdotal reports I've read both on Head-Fi and various other boards. AKG, Beyerdynamic, HiFiMAN, Sony, various amp and cable manufacturers, and various limited run models, special equipment or models that are way, way, way beyond my means.
   


> I think I already gave Dillweed my suggestions, right? I'm go sleep NAOW.


 
  I... don't _see_ any suggestions. Have any? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> If you have a chance, give the Th-600 a listen. For gaming/movies I would take these over the HD800 all day. You can easily forget the Th-600 are closed because the sound stage is amazing. The HD800 are great for gaming, but the highs just really were too piercing for me. I watched my first movie last night with the Fostex and they blew me away.


 
   I'll definitely look into these, though I haven't owned any closed cans before so I have no idea what to expect, and I don't think Fostex headphones are regularly stocked in most Canadian places and definitely not near where I live (Winnipeg-ish area), so I'd probably be buying into them sight-unseen like the HD800s and other higher priced models. I've just generally heard that a closed headphone soundstage is usually compressed compared to open ones. Everything I've owned has been at least semi-open, or at most ear buds (my head tends to pressurize pretty quickly, but I don't know if that would make much difference). The pair I had before the DT880s were HD555s.

   
*edit:* Hmmm. Yeah, unless I changed amps too, then the HD800 might not be great for me either. My hearing's pretty sensitive to the higher frequencies, and I'm seeing people talk of sibilance with solid state amps. More research to do, I guess.


----------



## liquiflux

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> I'm actually using the Titanium HD in my PC. I've tried it on a couple of different setups to see how they change the sound, but besides doing things like just smoothing out the harshness, warming the sound and increasing the bass, or making it extremely sibilant, my other general problems with the depth and positioning seem to be present on everything. I have a feeling that it's simply the DT880 sound, and my ears don't conform to the driver placement or I simply don't enjoy them as much as other people do. Granted, being able to change its overall sound pretty radically from system to system is nice and obviously an advantage for people who enjoy that sound in the first place and want to switch out different components to shape the sound signature to work with different genres of music, and I'm fine with how they sound with most music. But for me, the majority of their use is all games and movies, and they just seem to lack any real depth or ability to emulate three-dimensional space and end up kind of disappointing for it. They can get fairly wide, but that seems to be most of it, for me at least.


 
   
  How do you like the Lovely Cube with the TiHD? Is it a big step up from just the TiHD on its own? I'm looking for a headphone amp now and wondering which amps would be a step up in clarity and soundstage. I also dislike harsh treble which is one of the complaints I've heard about the Magni and O2 amps so I'm curious what your experience has been.
   
   
  Quote: 





dillweed said:


> I'll definitely look into these, though I haven't owned any closed cans before so I have no idea what to expect, and I don't think Fostex headphones are regularly stocked in most Canadian places and definitely not near where I live (Winnipeg-ish area), so I'd probably be buying into them sight-unseen like the HD800s and other higher priced models. I've just generally heard that a closed headphone soundstage is usually compressed compared to open ones. Everything I've owned has been at least semi-open, or at most ear buds (my head tends to pressurize pretty quickly, but I don't know if that would make much difference). The pair I had before the DT880s were HD555s.
> 
> *edit:* Hmmm. Yeah, unless I changed amps too, then the HD800 might not be great for me either. My hearing's pretty sensitive to the higher frequencies, and I'm seeing people talk of sibilance with solid state amps. More research to do, I guess.


 
   
  The Fostex based headphones also seemed really appealing to me, but I haven't had the chance to try them yet.  Even if it is not the most accurate for competitive gaming the descriptions make it seem as though it might work with its neutrality. The problem is that most of the headphones that are considered detailed and accurate rely on accentuated highs.


----------



## Dillweed

I'm probably not the greatest person to ask about amps given my relative inexperience.
   
  As far as the ability to tailor the sound a bit more to my liking through different op amps and giving some extra volume headroom, the Lovely Cube does pretty well. But, depending on the op amps you use on the Titanium HD, you might get a _similar_ sound from it alone, although the Cube does help the sound fill out more compared to straight out of the Titanium HD. It has a few different gain settings that you can toggle depending on what your headphones need. I got the pre-assembled Premium and the construction is good, and the amp is also dead silent even if I crank the volume knob to the maximum (don't do this).
   
  The stock op amp sounds too muddy to me. Switching it out for something like the OPA627BP helps tame the occasional sibilance on the DT880 while still giving enough detail. I have a few op amps for the Lovely Cube that I'll swap out to help different things. One helps smooth the high tones a bit, one helps boost the mids a bit and adds a little bit of forward depth, one widens the soundstage a bit more, one makes the bass a bit louder in relation to the midrange and treble, one adds a little bass boom (and removes some detail)... They're all slight variations on the same base theme, though. If you're interested in it, you should check out the thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/501046/the-lovely-cube-headphone-amp-lehmann-black-cube-linear-clone) for more and better impressions, and see if it sounds like something you're interested in. There's also a review at http://www.stekkie.com/?p=156. The Matrix M-Stage is also another Black Cube Linear derivative. If you can find reviews for the Black Cube Linear (like http://www.headfonia.com/lehmann-black-cube-linear/), _most_ of what applies to it will probably apply to the clones.
   
  I think the general idea is that solid state amps are going to give you enough power to drive, will usually give a fast and precise sound but won't change the overall sound signature much, where tubes can add some warmth. But, that's just my uneducated generalization.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> They talk about QC issues in AKG, but redirect you to Hifiman? Lol. Every single HE400 I owned failed, including the one I sold, which was a replacement for one that was having problems. The buyer contacted me a few months after, telling me the right driver failed. Good thing Hifiman heped him out.
> 
> Then there's Beyerdynamic which has to have the most inconsistency in terms of headphone to headphone variation. You don't know if you'll get a dud or a good one.




To be fair, I think HiFiMAN QC improves with each new batch. Not that I have confidence the HP will last for more than a year but at least it works from the get go.


----------



## liquiflux

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> I'm probably not the greatest person to ask about amps given my relative inexperience.
> 
> As far as the ability to tailor the sound a bit more to my liking through different op amps and giving some extra volume headroom, the Lovely Cube does pretty well. But, depending on the op amps you use on the Titanium HD, you might get a _similar_ sound from it alone, although the Cube does help the sound fill out more compared to straight out of the Titanium HD. It has a few different gain settings that you can toggle depending on what your headphones need. I got the pre-assembled Premium and the construction is good, and the amp is also dead silent even if I crank the volume knob to the maximum (don't do this).
> 
> ...


 
   
  Thanks for your thoughts. I'm torn between getting something customizable like the Lovely Cube or just going with something known to be clear and detailed like the Asgard 2.
   
  As for your headphone search, have you tried the HD 598? MLE gave it great reviews for positioning and soundstage, and it is supposed to be fairly neutral. I'm thinking about picking up one to try. There is also supposed to be an open-back headphone from Shure coming out soon that might do the job.


----------



## Dillweed

Yeah, I added the HD598 to the research list since I saw a couple of people mention that they preferred it to the HD600. Those two, along with the Q701/K702 Anniversary/K712 Pro, the TH600 and possibly the T1/HD800 higher up the chain and pretty much at my "broke for the next four months" budgetary limit. I don't remember what the differences are between the 595 and 598, but when I was using the HD555s, I did that simple mod to basically make them into HD595s.


----------



## Evshrug

They're slightly more different this time, you can still mod the 558's but FWIR this time it doesn't sound like the 598. They're both great though, had fun demoing the almost-hidden HD558 in the quiet corner of my Best Buy.

As far as recommendations, I'm not so sure you'll like the T1 FWIR because you found the DT880 treble-bright, the HD800 is supposed to be a bit bright but very sweet about it (so are the Stax), and maybe a used Stax should be researched. Outside the head is difficult to achieve, and actually the surround DSP's do a fair job of helping with that, and so do crossfeed features.

Of course, the above are simply based on reading inferences, my experience is with a couple entry-level high value headphones (Grado SR60, JVC HA-RX900 with TopPop mod, Sennheiser PX100, Etymotic ER•6i (IEMs), and recently Koss KSC75 "pulse" clip-ons) and some of the most famous soundstage headphones, the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and the AKG Q701. I actually just saw a pair of AD700 on a radio show guest during Food Court Wars or whatever that show is called. I've basically settled on the Q701, it has some more mid energy and sweet but not as bright treble than the DT880, better bass extension and presence than the AD700 with almost as impressive soundstage. The AD700 has such an impressive soundstage for such an attractive price, with a nice evenly round expansion shape when using a surround DSP, nice control but bass extension only a little better than earbuds (most enthusiasts want more). The Q701 has maybe slightly wider soundstage, but under amped (and thus less precise) or if paired with a darker amp the soundstage seems kinda oval shaped, extending out in front of you but not as deeply as the soundstage width. Using my tube amp however, the Q701 simply provides the best soundstage with exciting (non-painful) character that I have heard in a headphone. It is distinctly awesome, something I'm reminded of every time I come back to listen to it if I haven't had the chance to listen to music/game for a while. The Annies may have a bit more bass and intimate soundstage, I haven't heard those, but I'm satisfied to enjoy my Q701's. I really want a internal gaming soundcard for my PC though, I think the combo of Q701 + tube amp + Sound Blaster ZxR would be killer!

That count for recommendations? You were looking for soundstage, right? AD700 (soundstage step up but maybe a step back overall for you), AKG flagships, HD800, and Stax setups should be your shortlist, IMO from my research.


----------



## HiCZoK

guys I am looking for sound card. I want to connect speakers to it but I will mainly game on Creative aurvana live with it.
   
  is dolby ehadphone the same on all xonar cards ? (because it is xonar exclusive feature right ?)
   
  Would DH be the same on xonar dg/dgx as on u3 ?
  And is there any difference between dg/dgx ? i know the second is for pcie but are drivers the same? does card crashes or something like that ?


----------



## conquerator2

hiczok said:


> guys I am looking for sound card. I want to connect speakers to it but I will mainly game on Creative aurvana live with it.
> 
> is dolby ehadphone the same on all xonar cards ? (because it is xonar exclusive feature right ?)
> 
> ...




It is definitely not a xonar exclusive feature...
Implementation should be the same but the overall performance and results will depend on the.soundcard quality as well


----------



## HiCZoK

oh ok. So what sound card to get for cal ? Rather on the budget side. I dont mind external cards but not something like u3. I need my speakers connected too


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> oh ok. So what sound card to get for cal ? Rather on the budget side. I dont mind external cards but not something like u3. I need my speakers connected too


 
  On a tight budget, go with the Asus Xonar DG: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132020  You can always upgrade down the line, but this is a good beginning point if you're not able to get a separate amp, as this card has a basic built in amp.  If you can spring for a separate amp, look at the higher up Xonar or X-Fi cards.


----------



## engivuk

Wow, Mad Lust Envy, pretty huge pile of reviews you brought us here! Respect! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  Just a shortie: I happened to get my hands on an Asus Xonar Essence One amp (unexpected present 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) and I want to push it. I have an old Sennheiser headphone - HD590 - back from 2001 and honestly, even if I love it for serving me well during all these years it's time to get a new one (not to mention the Xonar eats it for breakfast). I don't have a discrete sound card but an integrated Realtek chip on my mobo (ASUS P8Z77-V Premium) (I quote): 
   
Realtek® ALC898 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC 
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
*Audio Feature :*
- Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound
- Blu-ray audio layer Content Protection 
- DTS Ultra PC II
- DTS Connect
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
   
  So in short: I need an advice on a decent headphone that could match the Essence One (gaming and music in that order). I know you are a console gamer but still, am interested in your opinion.
   
  Thx and cheers,
  engivuk


----------



## PurpleAngel

Connect the Asus Essence Xonar One to the S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) connection on the motherboard.
  Make sue your computer has the default audio output set to S/PDIF
  Update your motherboard's built in audio to the latest drivers
  Plug any headphone you like into the Essence One.
   
  Audio Technica ATH-AD900X (open) headphones
  Digbuy is selling them for $200.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Noble Hifi TH-600 Review with AH-D7000 comparison. That dude never misses to emphasize his D7000 love. 
   
  http://noblehifi.blogspot.com/2013/06/fostex-th-600-review.html


----------



## chicolom

TH600 sounds like a nice still-in-production alternative to the D7000, but what's the street price on it?  I'm seeing a MSRP of $1,299 !!


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> TH600 sounds like a nice still-in-production alternative to the D7000, but what's the street price on it?  I'm seeing a MSRP of $1,299 !!


 
  Under $1k typically, and you can find them used for about $850 periodically, which is similar to what you'd probably pay for a D7000 used.


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> That count for recommendations? You were looking for soundstage, right? AD700 (soundstage step up but maybe a step back overall for you), AKG flagships, HD800, and Stax setups should be your shortlist, IMO from my research.


 
  Thanks. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I've been trying to find impressions on all of these, and I probably am looking for something _similar to_ the DT880s, but bringing the mids to the same level as the treble, bass either in line with the mids and treble or slightly louder and with decent impact, with slightly more discernible detail throughout the range, and better depth/imaging in general than the DT880 but not necessarily needing a lot of extra width. So, neutral or slightly darker than neutral for a little extra bass power, as detailed/transparent as possible, and better depth, all of which I think I pretty much nailed down originally.
   
  The HD800 and a couple of the Stax sets seem to fit in that mould; the HD598, HD600, Q701, and K702/K712 have a lot things but seem like kind of a side-grade or compromise on others; the T1 sounds like it might mainly be a refinement of the DT880's overall sound signature so I might want something a little different, hence my thinking the HD800 might be a better fit. And, after reading more on the TH600 (and their big, much more expensive brother TH900), I'm thinking maybe the type of bass they produce might not be quite what I'm looking for with movies and gaming, but might work better than the HD800 for some music like electronic and hip-hop. But the amount of bass I get from my DT880s is already pretty much spot-on for me. Most of this seems (to me, at least) to be pushing me towards the HD800.
   
  I'm still kind of curious if the T1 fixes the issues I have with the DT880s, but the more I read, the more similar it seems, again with lots of mentions of the treble being just slightly too harsh on the T1 in some cases, and the midtones either sounding slightly more distant or not having the same kind of detail or separation as you could get from the HD800, slightly smaller soundstage than the HD800, etc. But, you also have to make sure you have/get an amp that pairs well with either one. The Black Cube Linear/Lovely Cube seems like it's basically a middle-of-the-road choice for the HD800, where it's not bad but not necessarily the perfect pairing either.
   
  And, again, I'm unfortunately having to buy based on second-hand information because nobody carries high end headphones around here so I can't really try anything out. I think, unless someone comes in and smashes my perceptions, I'll probably eventually end up getting a pair of HD800s. This would probably be a lot simpler if my living arrangement didn't preclude me from getting speakers, because then I'd probably just find a decent 5.1 setup and be happy.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  My heart hurts reading this. Having gamed with both, the TH-600 offers an overall more "fun" experience while still retaining an amazing amount of clarity, detail, and transparency. If movie watching has any weight on your decision, there is no comparison between the two. The TH-600 offers a movie/ hi-fi  delicious sandwich. I too had my heart set on the HD800 after using it for movies/music/gaming and then heard the Fostex.  The HD800 is its own different kind of beast. While I found rear cues better on the Fostex, overall sound whoring would have to go to the Sennheiser. What I found was that while listening to the HD800 I was hooked on trying to hear every little detail and focus on the sound stage etc etc.. Listening to the Th-600 is more like relaxing and melting into the music, movies, games with immersion and fun, but it still has amazing positioning cues, sound stage, separation etc. The HD800's are like a science experiment. The TH-600's are like your super hot science teacher in a school girl outfit.


----------



## Dillweed

God damn, man. Why you gotta do me like that?
   
  Okay... I hadn't been able to find many reviews of the TH600, and could find nobody really comparing the TH600 and HD800 directly. So, a question for you: which one sounds more natural? That would probably be the deciding factor for me.
   
  edit: I just remembered that there's a thread dedicated to them. I'll read through that, too.


----------



## Evshrug

Glad to help. What state are you located in? I've always wanted to hear the DT880, maybe we could do a loan trade.
Pretty sure most people have a hard time auditioning.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Man, that is a really hard question to answer. I am now biased based on my own likings, but these are both great headphones. One bit of impression I took away from comparing them...the TH600 has more impactful bass while not impeding on any other part of the spectrum. The HD800 seems to have more emphasis on the higher levels of the spectrum giving it superb detail whoring. I would not say the HD is lacking in bass, just does not give you that engaging impact I enjoy, especially with movies /games.  I personally feel like the TH600 is balanced very well, while the HD highs can be fatiguing. When people say this Can has a bass emphasis, or mid emphasis, I would say the TH has an everything emphasis. For music, the HD vocals are a little more out in front, while the TH is a little more inside.( It is a closed can) Since buying the Fostex I have told Burrito three or four times how happy I am that I purchased these over the HD, and he agrees. Plus you can score them for much cheaper.  The HD is amazing at detail, sound stage, but ultimately fatiguing. The TH gets a lot of love for its lows but really shines up top. Because the TH has such an amazing top end, and the HD can be overbearing., I would have to say the TH would be the more natural sounding headphone. Either way you can't go too wrong, but knowing what I know now I have to recommend the TH. Instead of purchasing the HD to compliment the TH, I plan on auditioning the TH900 for my next purchase.


----------



## Evshrug

My next audio purchase is/are 8 speakers that come with a car attached.


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> One bit of impression I took away from comparing them...the TH600 has more impactful bass while not impeding on any other part of the spectrum. The HD800 seems to have more emphasis on the higher levels of the spectrum giving it superb detail whoring. I would not say the HD is lacking in bass, just does not give you that engaging impact I enjoy, especially with movies /games.  I personally feel like the TH600 is balanced very well, while the HD highs can be fatiguing.


 
  Hmmmmm... I do like at least some amount of impactful bass, especially considering when I do listen to music, it usually does end up straying towards the hip-hop, electronic, R&B and the like. I don't know if you can remember, but do you know how they compare as far as forward or outward depth is concerned? Like, how far out does the soundstage feel on the two? Does the TH600 seem like it's placing instruments/sounds in relatively natural spaces?
   
  Also, to a certain degree, I'm starting to think like "Look, the Fostex is around $600-800 cheaper. If you think you're still missing something in the sound, you have more left to try something else later!". Is... is this that Head-Fi addiction thing I keep hearing about?
   


evshrug said:


> Glad to help. What state are you located in? I've always wanted to hear the DT880, maybe we could do a loan trade.
> Pretty sure most people have a hard time auditioning.


 
  I'm actually up in Canada, Manitoba more specifically. Right smack-dab in the middle of the country.


----------



## calpis

Geez... Now I want the TH600. I don't think I'd ever be able to spring for the TH900.
   
  Time to sell everything I have :/


----------



## Dillweed

Yeah, at the least, Happy Bullets has so far made me rethink my decision to go with the HD800. After much more searching, it seems like it might have more in common with the DT880s than I originally thought, and possibly also a less involving sound. The Fostex cans sound like a more interesting proposition the more I read...


----------



## Fegefeuer

The difference to your Pro 2900 will be glorious (I once had a 2900 too)


----------



## Evshrug

dillweed said:


> Also, to a certain degree, I'm starting to think like "Look, the Fostex is around $600-800 cheaper. If you think you're still missing something in the sound, you have more left to try something else later!". Is... is this that Head-Fi addiction thing I keep hearing about?
> 
> I'm actually up in Canada, Manitoba more specifically. Right smack-dab in the middle of the country.




Well, no, I wouldn't quite say you have Head-Fi addiction yet. I would say you are infected with Head-Fi reasoning and perspective though, lol! If it makes you feel any better, I want to someday own a Leica M9, a $3,500 no-frills camera without things like live-view image preview, autofocus, or even auto exposure. Oh, and each lens is another $1000-$4000 on top of that, and usually they're prime lenses that don't zoom in or out. I want one so bad...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm currently on vacation (staycation really), and my boy is visiting from Denmark. Disney, Wet n Wild, Universal Studios, etc.

He went and bought two Plyr1s off my recommendation to take back for him and his friend.

Skullcandy, you owe me! 

If I'm not on much, its because, yeah. Living it up for a week.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> Hmmmmm... I do like at least some amount of impactful bass, especially considering when I do listen to music, it usually does end up straying towards the hip-hop, electronic, R&B and the like. I don't know if you can remember, but do you know how they compare as far as forward or outward depth is concerned? Like, how far out does the soundstage feel on the two? Does the TH600 seem like it's placing instruments/sounds in relatively natural spaces?
> 
> Also, to a certain degree, I'm starting to think like "Look, the Fostex is around $600-800 cheaper. If you think you're still missing something in the sound, you have more left to try something else later!". Is... is this that Head-Fi addiction thing I keep hearing about?
> 
> I'm actually up in Canada, Manitoba more specifically. Right smack-dab in the middle of the country.


 
  With Dolby Headphones the Fostex holds its own producing better placed rear cues IMO. For music, comparing the HD800 sound stage to any other headphone is almost pointless because it has the most out of head music experience I have ever heard. This is by far the best quality of the HD if you ask me, and in my experience is unmatched. The sound stage of the HD is what produces its own brand of fun . That being said, I personally prefer the Fostex in every other aspect, the only fault I have is with the non detachable cable, but that is only a small gripe that does not affect much. Based on your genres of music and the fact this is a gaming thread, when comparing the two, I have received much more enjoyment from the Fostex. If you do use headphones for movies I cannot stress how amazing these are. Every headphone I have had in my home takes the movie test, and the Fostex surpasses them all. Like you said, you can pick up the Fostex for almost 700$ less than the Sennheiser, so there is only one clear option here. Buy the refurb HD800 from Crutchfield for 1100$, snag a pair of Fostex for 800$ish and for 400$ more than the HD msrp you have a super sick combo.


----------



## Dillweed

That sounds like an expensive and enthralling idea, sir. Sign me up. Seriously, though, I'll probably end up doing that, even if the HD800 comes later on.
   
  I saw that you got yours from HeadAmp. Do you know how the warranty works for you if you ever happen to need service? I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth taking a chance on PriceJapan. They're around $200 cheaper than buying from a Canadian place, including the import taxes, but their website says that a one-year "valid in Japan" warranty is issued for the items they buy. Apparently you have to send them back any defective item with shipping there and back at your cost.
   
  Although, if the information on the Fostex website is right, that's kind of what I'd be doing locally anyway, it's just mailing it to a service place in Canada instead. Unless it mentions on the warranty card that you get to deal with Fostex directly.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> That sounds like an expensive and enthralling idea, sir. Sign me up. Seriously, though, I'll probably end up doing that, even if the HD800 comes later on.
> 
> I saw that you got yours from HeadAmp. Do you know how the warranty works for you if you ever happen to need service? I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth taking a chance on PriceJapan. They're around $200 cheaper than buying from a Canadian place, including the import taxes, but their website says that a one-year "valid in Japan" warranty is issued for the items they buy. Apparently you have to send them back any defective item with shipping there and back at your cost.


 
  Yup, I spent a little more to have that security. I'm a warranty kinda guy. Don't quote me here, but to my understanding, if anything goes wrong I will send them to Justin at Headamp and he sends them in for repair/replacement. That is my understanding. Ill go look at the warranty card and if it says anything else I will report back. 
   
  Edit: The only thing I could read on the card says don't drive or ride bicycles with the Fostex. Haha


----------



## Dillweed

Okay, thanks for pushing me towards reconsidering things, HB. And thanks, guys, for the other suggestions that basically made me read about things for hours on end trying to find every possible differing opinion and impression on a bunch of different headphones. Unfortunately, my circumstances have changed a bit in the past few hours so I'm going to have to hold off for now, but I'll most likely be grabbing the TH600 once things have gotten a little better financially. Thanks again, guys.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm currently on vacation (staycation really), and my boy is visiting from Denmark. Disney, Wet n Wild, Universal Studios, etc.
> 
> He went and bought two Plyr1s off my recommendation to take back for him and his friend.
> 
> ...


 
  You are contributor know? Gratz... 
   
  Also, why havn't you tried hd800 for gaming yet?!


----------



## Rehabveteran

Really appreciate the thread MadLust and I recommend constantly to others over on gaming forums to come here for help with choosing their next audio solution. However now I find I'm in need of some help myself.
   
  I've been trying to decide between the DT990's and HE-400.  90% of the time I will be using them for gaming and I'll be powering them with a Soundblaster ZxR sound card.  I do enjoy some good positional cues, however I'm mainly in it for the "fun" listening factor.  The  games I'm playing now are: Battlefield 3, Far Cry 3, Crysis, Team Fortress 2, CS:GO, Skyrim, etc. I do not wish to spend more then $450, but I am open to suggestions for other headphones.
   
  Any replies are very much appreciated, thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the things the HE400 and DT990 do well, I recommend the Philips Fidelio X1. Seriously. Take the best things of both those you mentioned and you put themtogether, you get the X1. It doesnt have the Planar sound of the HE400, but Iit doesnt have overly exaggerated treble. It's as fun as the 990 too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

davidsh said:


> You are contributor know? Gratz...
> 
> Also, why havn't you tried hd800 for gaming yet?!




My job screwed me, and now I'm basically making what feels like minimum wage.

Yeah, way outside of my means.


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For the things the HE400 and DT990 do well, I recommend the Philips Fidelio X1. Seriously. Take the best things of both those you mentioned and you put themtogether, you get the X1. It doesnt have the Planar sound of the HE400, but Iit doesnt have overly exaggerated treble. It's as fun as the 990 too.


 
  damn you MLE, you keep making me want to get these as a secondary pair, or a pair to leave hooked to my PC so i don't have to keep switching. Your description though of them doesn't really sound like its worth it in my case, I am kind of looking for a pair that is more of a complimentary pair to go along with the Annies rather than replace them. I see X1 praise in a lot of threads now and my curiosity is going to get the better of me one day hah.
   
  I was actually looking for some basshead styled headphones and I have been reading up on basically pro900 vs ath-pro700mk2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't see the X1 as a replacement to the Annie at all. They're quite different. The X1 is more aggressive, the Annie os more linear and less fatiguing.


----------



## dakanao

I just read a review about the TB DSS, and he said that they don't do surround sound very well, is this true?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It does it as well as any Dolby Headphone device. It's not the device that's the problem. It would be whatever headphone they have paired with it.

Because the DSS is typically paired up with Turtle Beach headsets, the surround won't come off that impressive. None of the Turtle beach headsets I demoed with the Dolby Headphone sounded even remotely decent. Those headsets are huge bottlenecks.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It does it as well as any Dolby Headphone device. It's not the device that's the problem. It would be whatever headphone they have paired with it.
> 
> Because the DSS is typically paired up with Turtle Beach headsets, the surround won't come off that impressive. None of the Turtle beach headsets I demoed with the Dolby Headphone sounded even remotely decent. Those headsets are huge bottlenecks.


 
  I'm hoping the DSS would work well with my AKG K540...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> I'm hoping the DSS would work well with my AKG K540...




I doubt it. That's a closed, small headphone. Those tend to have a closed in, small soundstage, which do not work well for virtual surround.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I doubt it. That's a closed, small headphone. Those tend to have a closed in, small soundstage, which do not work well for virtual surround.


 
   
  I find the HiFiMAN headphone to perform quite nicely in DH. (At least the HE-6 does, but it would seem that the rest does well too)
  The soundstage offers great positional and rear as well as front cues and decent soundstage depth and width.
  Nothing quite like hearing crystal clear voices and ambient. Or bullets darting around your head 
   
  Although they are open-backed by design, the soundstage is their shortcoming IMO. Their soundstage depth seems to be better in games  than with music though , more holographic precisely.


----------



## HiCZoK

Just got my CAL! as suggested and ordered xonar dg !.
   
  my first opinions on it.
   
  I find em very comfortable. at least as of yet. My ears fit just in. The earcups are very comfortable and soft but not too soft.
  I thought that the cal! will be much more plastic and fragile but actually it feels pretty solid and well built. Also the cable is not as this as everyone inclined. Most reviews are from 2008. Maybe they changed it since ?
   
   
  As for the sound. They sound COMPLETELY different from my sound blaster tactic360 sigma. completely. This is my first set of real not gaming headphones. I am not sure what to think of it. I am not an audiophile wannable and have no idea how to describe their sound. But it seems warm and very balanced at the same time. Spacing seems about right (yet to play games) and somehow it manages to sound fluorishly and detailed at the same time. 
   
  Wonder how it will be on xonar dg when it will come !
   
  edit: one thing. I think I can hear the "errors" in music. This headphones leaves my 320mp3 nothing to defend with :lol:


----------



## LNCPapa

Just got my X1's in - gonna spend a little time with them then either thank or slap MLE.  I bought these because of you whether you want that responsibility or not!   This was from the Sonic Electronix.com deal btw.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> edit: one thing. I think I can hear the "errors" in music. This headphones leaves my 320mp3 nothing to defend with :lol:


 
  The music recording quality is in general much more important than bitrate if you have 256 kbit/s and higher files
   
  Even 128 kbit can sound fairly good if it's not mp3 (aac and ogg is better)


----------



## HiCZoK

my music is mostly gaming soundtracks. There is plenty of stuff. I refuse to buy ost from games which i own so I extracted what I could in formats what was in games. And that varies from aac, mp3 to ogg and fmod and some other weird stuff.
  Other stuff I bought like recenty disasterpeace albums are all 320mp3.
  about 1400 carefully selected tracks. Will be hard to reaplace bad quality ones but.. with tim
   
  and You are right about 128. For example - my jack orlando soundtrack is in 128kbps and it sound great


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lncpapa said:


> Just got my X1's in - gonna spend a little time with them then either thank or slap MLE.  I bought these because of you whether you want that responsibility or not!   This was from the Sonic Electronix.com deal btw.




Lemme know what you think.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I am wondering if you are going to end up trying the K712 since there are some rumors that its different than the Q701 w/memory pads. If it really does have a bass boost over the Annie I would be interested in your impressions.


----------



## Evshrug

CiG,
I have a feeling people will find minuscule differences between the Annies and K712s, though I have no idea what that difference will be or which people will prefer. I'd prefer the less expensive one, LOL! But since I'm happy with my current AKGs, I got a pair of closed, custom headphones to compliment the AKGs and go where those will not. 

Logo plates!!


----------



## Chubtoad

vmoda m100s?


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> I'm hoping the DSS would work well with my AKG K540...



Probably fare better than TB's own headsets! I don't have much knowledge about the K540 to be honest, but you'd probably still get enjoyable audio that seems to come from specific directions, just without as-much sense that these sounds are taking place outside your head as the big open-backed flagships. I wager that you'll still be impressed and pleased.

The Turtle Beach DSS and Asus Xonar U3 are simply the cheapest price-for-entry devices to get virtual headphone surround, for consoles and PCs respectively. I wish Creative would make a Z-Series update of the Recon3D USB device that worked with basically any input, the existing device is very practical and good yet could be improved with Creative's latest processing and a little improvement of the device itself (refining and streamlining the physical hardware, mostly).


Chubtoad,
Stay tuned till tomorrow, when I'm not sleep-loopy!


----------



## Happy Bullets

For anyone interested in the Vmoda Boom Mic, I cannot recommend it enough compared to other options. If you are like me, and hate cable clutter, this is ideal compared to the Modmic and various clip on mics. My only complaint is that it has a volume box on the cable which I would have left off. X1+BoomPro = match made in heaven.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





happy bullets said:


> For anyone interested in the Vmoda Boom Mic, I cannot recommend it enough compared to other options. If you are like me, and hate cable clutter, this is ideal compared to the Modmic and various clip on mics. My only complaint is that it has a volume box on the cable which I would have left off. X1+BoomPro = match made in heaven.


 
  Looks like the perfect match!  Other companies with detachable cables definitely need to look into this...there really should be an AKG mini-XLR version.  I've already got a ModMic, but for anyone that has the X1 or cans with the TRS cup connector...great addition!


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





modulor said:


> Looks like the perfect match!  Other companies with detachable cables definitely need to look into this...there really should be an AKG mini-XLR version.  I've already got a ModMic, but for anyone that has the X1 or cans with the TRS cup connector...great addition!


 
   
  For the AKG Mini XLR cable on my Q701s I simply braided a modmic and the cable together. The result was a shorter cable for gaming with my computer with an "integrated" microphone. The results turned out fairly well. But I have been eyeing this mic as well, especially if I do end up ordering the X1 for home or M100 for traveling use.


----------



## modulor

Today, gamer friends...today is the day!


----------



## AxelCloris

My soul is willing and ready. But my wallet is hesitant and trying to hide.


----------



## HiCZoK

my wallet 
  I already replaced my broken screen in note2, bought xonar dg and CAL!
   
  Now steam sale. What :lol:


----------



## pervysage

Any suggestions on good buys?
   
  I was always more of a console gamer so I've missed out on pretty much everything 
   
  Just got Counter Strike: Complete.... tempted to get Skyrim Legendary Edition.


----------



## AxelCloris

pervysage said:


> Any suggestions on good buys?
> 
> I was always more of a console gamer so I've missed out on pretty much everything
> 
> Just got Counter Strike: Complete.... tempted to get Skyrim Legendary Edition.




Typically speaking, if a game shows up as a daily deal, that'll be the best sale price all sale long. However, I have twice in the past seen a game at 50% during a daily deal and then 66% as part of a flash sale in the past. But it's not all that common to see the flashes be cheaper than the dailies. Also, keep an eye on the flash and community choice sales. Sometimes some real gems can show up in those. That's how I track down good buys during the wallet shrinking Steam sales.

Based on what's on sale currently, I'd put my votes in for Bioshock Infinite, Hotline Miami, Scribblenauts and Don't Starve. All were quite fun for me. If nothing else, I recommend Hotline MIami. At $2.49 it's a heck of a deal.

And to keep this post headphone-esque, I quite enjoyed the sound track for Bioshock: Infinite. That said, last I saw it didn't support Dolby Digital Live or DTS. This may have changed since I last played it. Skyrim does support Dolby Digital.


----------



## Mackem

It's hard trying to find some headphones for music / gaming that have comfortable (preferably velour) earpads that are deep / big enough for my ears but won't rest on my jaw, causing discomfort (Like the M-Audio Q40s and DT770 Pros did). Sound is important for gaming and music (Listen to a lot of EDM) but comfort is absolutely paramount. Budget around £150 GBP. Anyone help?

More info here


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Quote: 





mackem said:


> It's hard trying to find some headphones for music / gaming that have comfortable (preferably velour) earpads that are deep / big enough for my ears but won't rest on my jaw, causing discomfort (Like the M-Audio Q40s and DT770 Pros did). Sound is important for gaming and music (Listen to a lot of EDM) but comfort is absolutely paramount. Budget around £150 GBP. Anyone help?
> 
> More info here


 
  HD598?


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mackem said:


> It's hard trying to find some headphones for music / gaming that have comfortable (preferably velour) earpads that are deep / big enough for my ears but won't rest on my jaw, causing discomfort (Like the M-Audio Q40s and DT770 Pros did). Sound is important for gaming and music (Listen to a lot of EDM) but comfort is absolutely paramount. Budget around £150 GBP. Anyone help?
> 
> More info here


 
   
  I thoroughly enjoy the Philips X1's for EDM and gaming.


----------



## conquerator2

pervysage said:


> I thoroughly enjoy the Philips X1's for EDM and gaming.




+1 for erosennin!


----------



## Mackem

They're quite expensive from what I've seen? I'm not sure about open headphones as I mainly game late on a night.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mackem said:


> They're quite expensive from what I've seen? I'm not sure about open headphones as I mainly game late on a night.


 
   
  You said you had a budget of 150ish?
   
  Converted the price of them on Amazon at the moment... about $260 = 170ish GBP.
   
  So they might be a tad over your budget.
   
  But yeah... they are open. Not too big of a deal unless there is someone literally sleeping next to you while you are gaming


----------



## Change is Good

I don't know where else to ask this so I figured I'd ask the dolby masters, here. I am trying to get a tablet so I can watch movies in HD and listen in DH (or any other virtual surround sound) on the go. I was looking at the kindle fire but how good is the built in surround sound processor it claims to have? If I was to get a different model and need a decoder... which would work? Are there tablets with a USB out for something like the U3?
   
  I am open to all suggestions. I appreciate...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never used a tablet, so I surely don't know what they're capable/not capable of doing, sound-wise.


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks, maybe others will know... hopefully


----------



## Change is Good

In the meantime, take a look at this and see if this sounds right to you. So the kindle automatically gives out surround sound without the need of a decoder?
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0083PWAPW


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But is the virtual surround for the speakers, or is it like the U3 in that it has virtual surround for both speakers and headphones?

Wish I had one on hand to test out.


----------



## Change is Good

Good question. Here's what I got from the ad...
   
_"Kindle Fire HD uses the power of Dolby Digital Plus to create a world class audio experience, with or without headphones. Dolby Digital Plus includes technology used to adjust volume, create virtual surround sound, and deliver easier-to-understand dialogue in movies and TV shows. Kindle Fire HD is designed to automatically optimize the audio profile based on what you're doing, such as watching a movie, listening to music, or talking on Skype. It even optimizes the audio differently when you have headphones plugged in, so you can just sit back and enjoy."_


----------



## miceblue

Random question, does the MixAmp allow voice to be recorded in stereo? Or is it just mono?


----------



## 3X0

mad lust envy said:


> SWEET! Just got my Xonar U3.
> 
> It has something that is VERY, VERY important, and I didn't even realize it had. The headphone jack also doubles as an SPDIF out! the signal carries Dolby Headphone, meaning I can use my Compass 2 as the DAC and amp!! Hell, I could set it to send Dolby Digital Live, and I could use my Mixamp if I wanted to! Not that I need it as The U3 IS basically a Mixamp, but I can at least test out the differences in DH between the two.
> 
> ...



Does the Compass 2 have a locking light? I got my Xonar U3 last night and noticed some skipping on my Nova as well through SPDIF. When it cut out the locking light was blinking (e. g. Nova was not "getting" the signal). Happened surprisingly frequently.

I know the U3 outputs 48KHz ONLY and the last time I used something like this (though CMSS3D over SPDIF), I was able to output 44.1KHz which I believe fixed the locking/skipping issue. My regular SPDIF output is also set to 44.1KHz so I bet this is the culprit.

Honestly the 44.1/48 KHz distinction is annoying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I honestly don't know enough about those things. All I know is that I don't have the issue when I hook up the U3's spdif to the Fiio D03k or even the lowly Mixamp.

It's annoying. If you can figure the proboem out, you'd be my savior.

I wonder if the problem was because I upgraded the TCXOs on the Compass...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Random question, does the MixAmp allow voice to be recorded in stereo? Or is it just mono?


 
  I believe (guess) the microphone channel is mono (1-channel).


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ah okay, thanks for the reply!


----------



## HiCZoK

Ok, My xonar DG is here. Inserted, installed PCI_DG_7_12_8_1794_W7 from asus site and it is working.
   
  Now. What do i enable and what disable ?
  I am using front panel header on my case. Is tehre any sound difference /using back out ? I've connected "hd audio" cable to xonar dg. There is also ac97 dangling in there  My case is fractal 3000. Headphones detection works with well too 
   
   
  I changed front panel amp to 32-60 (I have cal). how do I use dolby ? What is dsp hf and dsp gx ?


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I honestly don't know enough about those things. All I know is that I don't have the issue when I hook up the U3's spdif to the Fiio D03k or even the lowly Mixamp.
> 
> It's annoying. If you can figure the proboem out, you'd be my savior.
> 
> I wonder if the problem was because I upgraded the TCXOs on the Compass...


 

 I'm getting the same skipping, but I think I figured it out. It might have something to do with the U3's TOSLINK output being too variable and the TOSLINK input of the Compass 2 being too strict. My Nova has a second optical input that accepts "lower quality" optical signals. I'll test it with that when I get home.
   
  If it works with the more tolerant optical input, it would mean there's some clocking issues between the U3 and the optical input of the device being used. Not sure I can explain it more technically but I'm not surprised that the optical output on the U3 isn't top-notch given its size.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was my assumption. The Compass 2's upgrading clocking is not in sync with the U3, so it skips. Kind of wish I left it stock.


----------



## HiCZoK

Guys, teach me using xonar dg and dolby headphone. it is kinda confusing.
   
  I mean - how do I properly use it for music and for games.
   
   
  As much as I figured out by now
  - front headphone jack is good. amped just as the back. no quality drawback.
  -32-64 ohms for CAL!
  -for music, use 2ch and hifi on, gx off. This gives true music quality. No equalizers and enchancements 
  -for gaming 8ch, dolby headphone on, gx on and dh-1 + the game must support at least 5.1 or full 7.1 otherwise dh wont work properly. Just checked Prey. OpenAl enables thanks to "gx on" and eax hd works too. OpenAL in Prey means that game supports 7.1 as far as I know and with 8ch dh enabled prey is best I've checked yet. positioning is very good


----------



## 3X0

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That was my assumption. The Compass 2's upgrading clocking is not in sync with the U3, so it skips. Kind of wish I left it stock.


 
  Yup, that was it. The more-tolerant 2nd optical output accepts the signal just fine.


----------



## MasterOne

I'm currently on the market for some headphones around $100.
   
  For me...the biggest things that they need are:
   

 Detachable cable (because its always a faulty cable that ruins headphones)
 Comfortable (memory foam in headband is a plus)
 Positional Audio
 Deep Low's
   
  Importance is in order
   
  These headphones will be mainly used to listen to deathmetal and (PC - FPS) gaming. 
   
  I've come across these headphones:
   
  http://www.amazon.com/Crossfade-Over-Ear-Noise-Isolating-Headphone-Phantom/dp/B003BYRGLI/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373686089&sr=1-2&keywords=v+moda+lp2
   
  and I've read about the AD700's and Samson SR850's. I would go for these headsets if the build quality wasn't questionable and they had detachable cables. Is there some headset that fit my criteria? Or does it seem that the v-modas will be the best thing for me? If you haven't heard of these cans, they are for bass heads, the mids are not the best, and the highs seems to be better than the mids. I have no idea on their sound stage. 
   
  If the positional audio is bad, couldn't 7.1 virtual surround software remedy the issue since I'm on PC?


----------



## dakanao

I just recieved my DSS, but I'm having problems setting it up to my xbox 360 with HDMI and no optical in/out plug. So how do I set it up?


----------



## kellte2

dakanao said:


> I just recieved my DSS, but I'm having problems setting it up to my xbox 360 with HDMI and no optical in/out plug. So how do I set it up?




http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=114&cp_id=11403&cs_id=&p_id=7526&seq=1&format=4

Don't buy on amazon or other generic brands as there is a well known fault with those that cause the Xbox to reboot if you change inputs. This doesn't have that problem and worked for me until my Xbox crapped out and I bought a slim model with the optical out port.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





kellte2 said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=114&cp_id=11403&cs_id=&p_id=7526&seq=1&format=4
> 
> Don't buy on amazon or other generic brands as there is a well known fault with those that cause the Xbox to reboot if you change inputs. This doesn't have that problem and worked for me until my Xbox crapped out and I bought a slim model with the optical out port.


 
  Does the 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm jack work aswell if you plug it in the Analog in and to your TV?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That will not give you surround, but it will at least give you soud in the meantime. You need that adapter.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That will not give you surround, but it will at least give you soud in the meantime. You need that adapter.


 
  What do you mean it will give me sound in the meantime? What does it improve on vs just my headphones stock plugged in the TV?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DSS will more than likely have a stronger internal amp and lower output imepdance than the headphone jack on the TV. TV headphone jacks tend to use the cheapest parts.


----------



## Evshrug

So... I'm kinda annoyed with my DSS. Mostly just a preference thing. I got my new headphones and was testing them out (yes, my New V-MODA M-100), but it's been a little while since I used a detailed headphone with the DSS (the KSC are pretty detailed, but not on the same level as the Q701 or M-100), and the echos were really apparent last night. Not super impressed playing Splinter Cell: Conviction on surround cues either. Add to that, I think the M-100 are more sensitive since they are lower impedance than the Q701, so I have a fair/distracting during gameplay amount of background noise when I connect to my external amps. OI think I'm going to buy back a Recon3D USB... NAmeless, you still got yours for sale?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I think I'm going to buy back a Recon3D USB... Nameless, you still got yours for sale?


 
   
  I do. It's sitting right here, waiting for you.
   
  I could use the extra funds to recoup the costs of a major purchase...you'll all see soon.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I do. It's sitting right here, waiting for you.
> 
> I could use the extra funds to recoup the costs of a major purchase...you'll all see soon.


 
  Just... for moi?
  Hope you're enjoying your major purchase... soon! I'll let you know, paycheck Friday. Everybody's happy then, right?
  BTW I don't think the DSS is bad, it's just for my ears, I'm not satisfied. Still wish Creative would just make a Soundblaster Z USB.


----------



## Chubtoad

if your getting alot of background noise have you tried using an isolator of some kind? should clean it right up.


----------



## HiCZoK

Just got my xonar dg yesterday. Can someone share best dolby headphones settings for using with CAL! ?
  I already know how it works. just use 8 channel setting, 44.1khz (no more is needed), turn on dolby headphone. Do i want virtual speaker shifter ? What dh is best for games and what for music ?


----------



## Xanatos

dolby headphone comes off as a gimmick to me. closing my eyes while listening to sounds in-game, sounds still sounded either left or right with headphones (AD700 + Xonar DG).


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





xanatos said:


> dolby headphone comes off as a gimmick to me. closing my eyes while listening to sounds in-game, sounds still sounded either left or right with headphones (AD700 + Xonar DG).


 
  It might be your ears differing a lot from the average. It helps IMO.
   
  Anywayz, I need a recommendation. Here's some different options for me.
   

 I have a PCI slot free and I do also have a PCI-e slot for my wifi card (whatever it's called), but I could buy a PCI wifi card if necessary. So, I need a sound card with coax out and dolby or cmss-3d.
 Some external sound card or the like that preferably work with both my pc and ps3. I would like it to have coax out too. 
 Plain and simple usb to coax converter
   
  My situation is like this: I have a ps3 with optical out, my pc with optical out. My DAC has a coax and an optical input. I want both ps3 and pc connected to the DAC at the same time. I would like to have some virtual surround sound now that I need a device for getting coax out of either my pc or ps3 anyway. It shouldn't necessarily cost me much more I guess, so why  not?
   
  You can apply surround sound dsp's and stuff when you are going digital out of a soundcard, right?


----------



## conquerator2

davidsh said:


> It might be your ears differing a lot from the average. It helps IMO.
> 
> Anywayz, I need a recommendation. Here's some different options for me.
> 
> ...




That is something we would all like!
Not sure if such device exists honestly.... Other than the ones mentioned before


----------



## HiCZoK

Quote: 





xanatos said:


> dolby headphone comes off as a gimmick to me. closing my eyes while listening to sounds in-game, sounds still sounded either left or right with headphones (AD700 + Xonar DG).


 
  I am not sure on it too as of yet.
  I know that 2ch + hf in xonar control panel is purest mode. No eq, no surround etc. best for music.
   
  Tried playing couple of games like Saints Row The Third which support DTS but I have mixed results.
   
  6ch, 8ch - I see no difference. At least I think
  dolby headphone dh1/2/3 - 1 is to narrow, 2 seems about ok but it does lil reverb and 3 is bigger reverb room.
   
  7.1 speaker shift is a mystery to me tho. Even tho speakers are in default position, sound seems louder with it turned on together with 8ch dh. It removes the reverb effect or just makes the sounds louder. The music plays kinda cool with it
   
  one more thing. Use original asus drivers from their site (2011) or uni xonar ?


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





hiczok said:


> I am not sure on it too as of yet.
> I know that 2ch + hf in xonar control panel is purest mode. No eq, no surround etc. best for music.
> 
> Tried playing couple of games like Saints Row The Third which support DTS but I have mixed results.
> ...


 
  In general you should only enable DH as far as I know... The windows output to the sound card should be set to 5.1 or 7.1. Whether to use dolby 1/2/3 is up to u. 1 is recording room, 3 is concert hall or somehting like that.
   
  Whay is hf?
   
  Dunno what to chooes ingame, but I guess it should be 5.1 or 7.1  audio or something like that if the game supports it.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm gonna guess that hf stands for high fidelity.



chubtoad said:


> if your getting alot of background noise have you tried using an isolator of some kind? should clean it right up.



Not to sound dumb, but what is an isolator and how do I get one? The odd part is I don't hear these things with my Q701 or KSC75.


----------



## Chubtoad

evshrug said:


> I'm gonna guess that hf stands for high fidelity.
> Not to sound dumb, but what is an isolator and how do I get one? The odd part is I don't hear these things with my Q701 or KSC75.





http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10844&cs_id=1084402&p_id=6909&seq=1&format=2


Something like that. Generally hum/buzz/hiss/noises are caused by ground loops and devices such at that linked above can basically make it silent. 

There are different ones from the one I linked but basically something like that. There is debate however as to whether or not using an isolator degrades sound quality a little bit, but I don't personally think it does.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> So... I'm kinda annoyed with my DSS. Mostly just a preference thing. I got my new headphones and was testing them out (yes, my New V-MODA M-100), but it's been a little while since I used a detailed headphone with the DSS (the KSC are pretty detailed, but not on the same level as the Q701 or M-100), and the echos were really apparent last night. Not super impressed playing Splinter Cell: Conviction on surround cues either. Add to that, I think the M-100 are more sensitive since they are lower impedance than the Q701, so I have a fair/distracting during gameplay amount of background noise when I connect to my external amps. OI think I'm going to buy back a Recon3D USB... NAmeless, you still got yours for sale?


 
  Impedance doesn't necessarily correlate with sensitivity but yeah the M-100's are way more sensitive than the K 701. The observed background noise means your amp has a high noise floor.


----------



## Evshrug

miceblue said:


> Impedance doesn't necessarily correlate with sensitivity but yeah the M-100's are way more sensitive than the K 701. The observed background noise means your amp has a high noise floor.



True, but I thought the Koss KSC75 were relatively sensitive too. And I might expect a fairly noticeable noise floor from the cheap DSS and tube amp, but not between iPod with LO adapter (L11) + E12. Oh well. I think that another contributing factor is that I can't find my short FiiO interconnects, so I used my Shareplay cable (still bundled together in a neat loop) between iPod and FiiO amp, that probably created magnetic and possibly other electronic interference (you know how you make an electromagnet?), and right now I've got a mess of criss-crossing power and interconnect wires for my Xbox, DSS, Tube amp (each of those have power cables), and my M-100 headphones. I'm probably moving into an apartment next weekend, so I'll finally have a living space I care about than the very temporary feeling I have in my mom's house, and I'll be careful with cable management and setup.


----------



## miceblue

^ Ah okay. Yeah many cables crisscrossing could be an issue too.
   
  @ MLE
   
  How did the the SR-407's imaging compare to that of the Q 701 for gaming? I just ordered a new SRS-2170 (amp + earspeakers) from Japan for $590 USD and I'm eager to try it out for gaming in comparison to my 8-bump headband K 701.


----------



## Zalbik

At a local Guitar Center I was able to try on the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro headphone and they felt wonderful. The sound was great also but I am not sure which to buy to match with a MixAmp.
   
  I assume the DT990 32 ohm ($269) would work just fine with the MixAmp but my question is does the DT990 250 ohm work ok with a MixAmp as well or does the 250 ohm version need a stronger amp? I would like to save a ton of cash and buy the 250 ohm ($168) version but I do not want to make a mistake that I will regret later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 250ohm version is less stressful for the Mixamp, though it won't be as loud. Neither are Mixamp friendly if you don't attach an amp (when using voice chat). You can get by with the mixamp alone, but all the Beyerdynamics I have reviewed improve considerably with amping.

People need to understand 250ohm headphones were designed for home stereo systems, not mini little amps. Also, just because a headphone has a low impedance, does not make them easy to drive (HE-4 is the hardest headphone to drive on my list, and it's only 40ohm). The 32ohm Beyers are actually quite power dependent, even if they do get loud easy. Volume does not equal being driven properly. The 32ohm will sound worse than the 250ohm even unamped, though it will be louder. You need a good amp to make them sound on equal footing, and even then, the 250ohm is more refined. 32ohm Beyers are illogical in that they always sound worse than the 250 and 600ohm, and require more power than the 250ohm anyways. They are only useful if you absolutely need them because you have no amping, but expect worse sound quality.

In the case of the 990s... the 990 Pro will be better than the 990/32, though the 990 Pro will be a little more bassy. The 32ohm sounds like the 600ohm, but not as refined, and more congested. If you plan on an amp (even something like the Magni), the 600ohm is the best version. The 250ohm is if you want a little more bass.

Honestly though, if you can spring for the Fidelio X1, I completely recommend going for that instead. It's like a better behaved 990, with strong bass and really good mid to treble linearity. Gaming performance is on par as well. Best thing, they need very little power, so the Mixamp alone is fine. I know my review isn't up, but it's worth it.


----------



## DemonFox

mad lust envy said:


> The 250ohm version is less stressful for the Mixamp, though it won't be as loud. Neither are Mixamp friendly if you don't attach an amp (when using voice chat). You can get by with the mixamp alone, but all the Beyerdynamics I have reviewed improve considerably with amping.
> 
> People need to understand 250ohm headphones were designed for home stereo systems, not mini little amps. Also, just because a headphone has a low impedance, does not make them easy to drive (HE-4 is the hardest headphone to drive on my list, and it's only 40ohm). The 32ohm Beyers are actually quite power dependent, even if they do get loud easy. Volume does not equal being driven properly. The 32ohm will sound worse than the 250ohm even unamped, though it will be louder. You need a good amp to make them sound on equal footing, and even then, the 250ohm is more refined. 32ohm Beyers are illogical in that they always sound worse than the 250 and 600ohm, and require more power than the 250ohm anyways. They are only useful if you absolutely need them because you have no amping, but expect worse sound quality.
> 
> ...




Couldn't agree with you more on the Beyers. I've owned or tried all three DT990's and for me the 250 was the best. I thought the 32 would be easier to amp and better sounding and all it was was louder at lower volumes but sounded worse than the other two. For the money the DT990/250 Pro's are a steal at $160 and under. Always regretted getting rid of them. 


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





zalbik said:


> At a local Guitar Center I was able to try on the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro headphone and they felt wonderful. The sound was great also but I am not sure which to buy to match with a MixAmp.
> 
> I assume the DT990 32 ohm ($269) would work just fine with the MixAmp but my question is does the DT990 250 ohm work ok with a MixAmp as well or does the 250 ohm version need a stronger amp? I would like to save a ton of cash and buy the 250 ohm ($168) version but I do not want to make a mistake that I will regret later.


 
  I like and own 6 (higher impedance) Beyerdynamic headphones, 2 of them are 600-Ohm and 4 of them are 300-Ohm, they all sound better with a good headphone amplifier (better then the Mix-amps amplifier).
  I think these model Beyer's are using a diaphragm first designed back in the 70s.
   
  So why not look into getting low impedance (Ohm) headphone that will work fine plugged straight into the Mix-amp.
  Like Audio Technica ATH-AD900X open headphones (only 38-Ohms).
  Digbuy sells the ATH-AD900X for $199.99, with free shipping.
   
  How about a Sennheiser HD558 headphone (50-Ohm), used ones can sometimes sell for just over $100.


----------



## Zalbik

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly though, if you can spring for the Fidelio X1, I completely recommend going for that instead. It's like a better behaved 990, with strong bass and really good mid to treble linearity. Gaming performance is on par as well. Best thing, they need very little power, so the Mixamp alone is fine. I know my review isn't up, but it's worth it.


 
   
  Hmmmm....is $237 a good price for the X1? 
   
  They are $250 but they had a coupon code that brings it down to $237
   
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_70121_Philips-Fidelio-X1-X1-28-Premium-Open-Back-Hi-Fi-Over-Ear-Headphones.html
   
  They are back ordered but I called them up and they said they should have their next shipment on Monday  or Tuesday so the wait would not be long.


----------



## Evshrug

$250 is a greeeeat price for the X1; at $237, if you're even thinking about the X1, you'll probably regret not jumping on that price. If this is your first big headphone purchase, you will immediately be surprised at the difference a headphone of this caliber makes with music, gaming, and movies.

I watched a movie at my girlfriend's recently; her family has a really nice 52" Panasonic Plasma TV, the picture quality is great but I was frustrated at how indistinct the movie dialogue was. She was used to not really knowing what was said here and there, but since I am used to knowing what's going on because of my headphones (and decent ht speakers), I had to turn on subtitles. Watching a 5.1 surround movie with good headphones is a revelation, like going from VHS on an old 26" TV from the 90's straight up to a Blu-Ray on a big plasma HDTV!

Wait till you play some of your favourite games 


*miceblue,*
Yeah, if I wasn't having company over, I would be tidying up right now. Part of the problem is just a lot of long wires and devices crowded together in one space.


----------



## Chubtoad

probably one of the best prices you will see for them i think.


----------



## xEzio

Newbie question: Is the K702 on the same level as the Q701 (Or even the K701)? Is it better to go with the K702 or get the Q701?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## HiCZoK

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> In general you should only enable DH as far as I know... The windows output to the sound card should be set to 5.1 or 7.1. Whether to use dolby 1/2/3 is up to u. 1 is recording room, 3 is concert hall or somehting like that.
> 
> Whay is hf?
> 
> Dunno what to chooes ingame, but I guess it should be 5.1 or 7.1  audio or something like that if the game supports it.


 
  I get it no.
  HF is hifi and it means that it turns of all additional effects for music listening.
   
  So I am setting channels to 6 or 8 but would it benefit or "wont work" if I set the windows/channels to 8 and game was dts/5.1 only ?
  also. Using sample rate of 44.1 for everything is ok isnt it ? I dont need it to be 96 like it was et on by default right ?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





xezio said:


> Newbie question: Is the K702 on the same level as the Q701 (Or even the K701)? Is it better to go with the K702 or get the Q701?
> 
> Thanks!


 
  I've read that:
   
  K 701 (earlier 7-bump headband) = K 702
   
  Q 701 = K 701 (newer 8-bump headband)


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *HiCZoK* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> also. Using sample rate of 44.1 for everything is ok isnt it ? I dont need it to be 96 like it was et on by default right ?


 
  44.1 sample rate is not good if you listen to 48/96/192kHz sampled music AFAIK.


----------



## ethan7000

Mad Lust, THANK YOU FOR YOUR REVIEWS! They led me to buy the DT 990 Pro 250's and I'm loving them.  I have a couple of questions for you:
   
I run these out of my Behringer UB802 mixer, which reports has the following headphone output: 
   
 [size=13.3333px] Max. output level[/size]
 [size=13.3333px] +19 dBu / 150 Ω (+25 dBm)[/size]
 [size=13.3333px]  [/size]
I was wondering if this is adequate amplification and how it compared to say a Fiio portable or desktop amp.
   
Also, I was wondering if you had any idea how the new Denon D600's compare to the D7000's you own.  Any chance of a review on these? 
   
And finally, do you have any sense of how the Sony MRD-XB1000's might compare to the Ultrasone Pro 900's?  Again, any chance of a review on these someday?
   
Thanks again!


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





zalbik said:


> Hmmmm....is $237 a good price for the X1?
> 
> They are $250 but they had a coupon code that brings it down to $237
> 
> ...


 
   
  That's a pretty good deal for the X1. I am very tempted to get them for that price...
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly though, if you can spring for the Fidelio X1, I completely recommend going for that instead. It's like a better behaved 990, with strong bass and really good mid to treble linearity. Gaming performance is on par as well. Best thing, they need very little power, so the Mixamp alone is fine. I know my review isn't up, but it's worth it.


 
   
  When's the review coming bro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im on vacation the whole week with zero X1 headtime. Gonna take some time.


----------



## dakanao

I just tested out the DSS with the 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable in Pro Logic II and Dolby Bypass. It gives me a really weird sound in Pro Logic II, and didn't notice any changes in Dolby Bypass. So what light should be turned on on the DSS for true Dolby Headphone surround sound?


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> I just tested out the DSS with the 3.5 mm to 3.5 mm cable in Pro Logic II and Dolby Bypass. It gives me a really weird sound in Pro Logic II, and didn't notice any changes in Dolby Bypass. So what light should be turned on on the DSS for true Dolby Headphone surround sound?


 
  It should be the third light from the bottom, the one that says DD next to it.  If it is not coming on during gaming, your output may not support Dolby Digital Live.  What sound card / motherboard audio are you using?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, he's currently using the 3.5mm cable, which will never have that signal.


----------



## ethan7000

Lol didn't catch that...dakanao, you'll have to use an optical cable to test it out.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Well, he's currently using the 3.5mm cable, which will never have that signal.


 
   
  Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Lol didn't catch that...dakanao, you'll have to use an optical cable to test it out.


 
  What about the first light? Should that one turn blue aswell?


----------



## ethan7000

Yes


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Yes


 
  Well I just connected the optical cable to my TV and to the DSS, and while the last ''digital in'' light is on, the first ''DD'' light doesn't turn on. Does this mean I'm getting surround sound, or do both the first and last lights need to be turned on for surround sound? Also, when I connect the DSS, it formats my USB storage device. how can I prevent this from happening in the future?


----------



## lemm

Nameless was good enough to give me some info regarding game surround sound processing for headphones. I have used Dolby Headphone but was also told about CMSS-3D as an alternative that uses binaural rather than virtual.
   
  As I need a soundcard I expect one of these standards or something similar would be useful. I've been given a link to this to hopefully gain better clarification on the differences and hence which soundcard may be better.
   
  Is CMSS-3D the most comprehensive / most up to date method?
  What about SBX Pro Studio Surround in the recent Sound Blaster Z Series?
  Is THX TruStudio Pro a good option?
  And how do these compare to Dolby Headphone?
   
  As for different methods of headphone surround, aren't all games essentially generating real time discrete 6 or 8 channel audio? If all in-game audio have either native 5.1/7.1 positional sound which are then made into virtual 5.1/7.1 surround over 2 speakers for headphones, how then do the various headphone methods above differ in simulating the native 5.1/7.1 game audio for headphones?
   
  Thanks in advance.
   
  Regards,
  Islam


----------



## daleb

I'm playing through Skyrim on the PC now with the tropical mod, and it feels like an entirely new game. I especially love the ambient sound it adds, I just wish I had a surround sound setup for it.
   
  Also, this is probably the best graphics I've ever seen in a game. The mod gives it a more ENB like lighting.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Nameless was good enough to give me some info regarding game surround sound processing for headphones. I have used Dolby Headphone but was also told about CMSS-3D as an alternative that uses binaural rather than virtual.
> 
> As I need a soundcard I expect one of these standards or something similar would be useful. I've been given a link to this to hopefully gain better clarification on the differences and hence which soundcard may be better.
> 
> ...


 
  I'd suggest go hear for yourself if you can find any youtube videos with dolby, cmss-3d and the like applied. Look in the OP, I think he provides a link to some russian site with different videos with virtual surround applied.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> Well I just connected the optical cable to my TV and to the DSS, and while the last ''digital in'' light is on, the first ''DD'' light doesn't turn on. Does this mean I'm getting surround sound, or do both the first and last lights need to be turned on for surround sound? Also, when I connect the DSS, it formats my USB storage device. how can I prevent this from happening in the future?


 
  Hmmm, it sounds like you're trying to listen to output from your TV rather than from a game console, PC, cable box etc.  In that case, are you trying to listen to 5.1 surround from a TV program from over the air?  You're not getting surround unless the DD light is on.  Only some over-air programs will transmit in 5.1, like a prime time show broadcast in HD.  It often says it in the beginning of the show (broadcast in 5.1 surround etc.).


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Hmmm, it sounds like you're trying to listen to output from your TV rather than from a game console, PC, cable box etc.  In that case, are you trying to listen to 5.1 surround from a TV program from over the air?  You're not getting surround unless the DD light is on.  Only some over-air programs will transmit in 5.1, like a prime time show broadcast in HD.  It often says it in the beginning of the show (broadcast in 5.1 surround etc.).


 
  No I want to use it for my xbox 360, but I'm getting sound from my headphones though, it's just not surround sound. It goes like this: The DSS is connected to the xbox 360 through usb, my headphone is plugged in the DSS, and the DSS optical out is plugged in the TV. How can I get the DD light back on?


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Nameless was good enough to give me some info regarding game surround sound processing for headphones. I have used Dolby Headphone but was also told about CMSS-3D as an alternative that uses binaural rather than virtual.
> 
> As I need a soundcard I expect one of these standards or something similar would be useful. I've been given a link to this to hopefully gain better clarification on the differences and hence which soundcard may be better.
> 
> ...


 
  There's a lot of debate between CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone.  I haven't tried CMSS-3D, but I have tried Dolby Headphone.  I've also tried SBX Pro Studio, which is supposed to be an improved version of THX TruStudio Pro.  Here's what I can tell you:
   
  I've tested the Xonar DGX, DX, and Sound Blaster Z.  I also have the original Turtle Beach DSS with Dolby Headphone.  I like Dolby Headphone better for positioning over SBX surround. However, the Sound Blaster Z is a great sound card.  The pure sound coming from it is superior to the two Xonar cards I tried.  I also like the bass enhancement and crystalizer software that comes with it.  So I ended up using the Sound Blaster Z, with some bass enhancement, crystalizer, and EQ from the SBX software.  I turn Dolby Digital Live on and use the optical output into my DSS and use Dolby Headphone on that unit.  Then I output from there to my mixer, which has a headphone amp (or you could output to whatever amp you like).  For me, this is giving me a sound I'm really happy with for music and games.  For games, I really only play BF3, and there were a lot of windows/in-game settings I had to play with to get things sounding right for each setup.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> No I want to use it for my xbox 360, but I'm getting sound from my headphones though, it's just not surround sound. It goes like this: The DSS is connected to the xbox 360 through usb, my headphone is plugged in the DSS, and the DSS optical out is plugged in the TV. How can I get the DD light back on?


 
  I use a PC, so I don't know what the 360 has for outputs.  If it has an optical out, you should be using that into the DSS, not the TV.  The USB is just for power.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> No I want to use it for my xbox 360, but I'm getting sound from my headphones though, it's just not surround sound. It goes like this: The DSS is connected to the xbox 360 through usb, my headphone is plugged in the DSS, and the DSS optical out is plugged in the TV. How can I get the DD light back on?


 
  Dumb question time.
  Why do you not just plug the optical straight from the Xbox to the DDS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You do NOT connect the optical from the TV to the DSS. It MUST be from the 360's optical out. Almost all TVs downconvert Dolby Digital to stereo. You will never get proper surround for game systems this way.

Again, optical out of the 360 to the DSS. End of story. You're not getting proper Dolby Headphone any other way, unless certain devices do passthrough. Tvs dont.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> I'd suggest go hear for yourself if you can find any youtube videos with dolby, cmss-3d and the like applied. Look in the OP, I think he provides a link to some russian site with different videos with virtual surround applied.


 
   
  Thanks. I've tried some vids and will likely try some more. Nothing like hearing it for yourself.
   
  Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> There's a lot of debate between CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone.  I haven't tried CMSS-3D, but I have tried Dolby Headphone.  I've also tried SBX Pro Studio, which is supposed to be an improved version of THX TruStudio Pro.  Here's what I can tell you:
> 
> I've tested the Xonar DGX, DX, and Sound Blaster Z.  I also have the original Turtle Beach DSS with Dolby Headphone.  I like Dolby Headphone better for positioning over SBX surround. However, the Sound Blaster Z is a great sound card.  The pure sound coming from it is superior to the two Xonar cards I tried.  I also like the bass enhancement and crystalizer software that comes with it.  So I ended up using the Sound Blaster Z, with some bass enhancement, crystalizer, and EQ from the SBX software.  I turn Dolby Digital Live on and use the optical output into my DSS and use Dolby Headphone on that unit.  Then I output from there to my mixer, which has a headphone amp (or you could output to whatever amp you like).  For me, this is giving me a sound I'm really happy with for music and games.  For games, I really only play BF3, and there were a lot of windows/in-game settings I had to play with to get things sounding right for each setup.


 
   
  I've tried Dolby Headphone on movies and I like it but not on games so am considering my options for positional audio.
   
  So you're saying Dolby Headphone is better for positional audio than SBX. Accurate positional audio is mainly the the goal of all these options for headphone use, and rather than using SBX on the Sound Blaster Z you choose to leave SBX off and use Dolby Headphone through DDL instead, (with some added DSP you like). This helps put at least Dolby Headphone and SBX in some perspective. Thanks.
   
  Initially I was thinking I'd do exactly that (ie DDL) so was looking for a soundcard that has the best DDL and was leaning to either the Sound Blaster Z or the external Asus U7 or U3 to use between 2 computers, and then maybe even forgetting about a new soundcard and getting audio through HDMI instead.
   
  I was concerned about possible latency with DDL with the different soundcards. Obviously in movies I can adjust the av sync but in games the latency would be fixed to however long it takes to process the DDL. I think under 50ms would not be perceptible but I read some can go over 100ms. Are you experiencing any latency by going through DDL without the bass enhancement, crystalizer, and EQ you're applying from the SBX software? And with all that DSP over DDL does it not affect av sync in BF3? FPS games would be really good to pick up any latency so I assume you're not seeing any at all?
   
  Then I thought I could just as easily avoid that and implement either Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D or SBX processing through a new soundcard and pass that directly to the headphone. You've helped shed some light on Dolby Headphone vs SBX. Would you go as far to say SBX is inferior to straight Dolby Headphone (through DDL or directly in the Xonar DGX, DX, or Sound Blaster Z) without all the SBX software DSP from the Sound Blaster Z?
   
  Anyone else used CMSS-3D and know how it works and what I can expect from that?
   
  Thanks.


----------



## Naingolann

I think your best bet would be asking that in Nameless' thread or decide for yourself after listening to audio samples either on youtube or somewhere else online.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> No I want to use it for my xbox 360, but I'm getting sound from my headphones though, it's just not surround sound. It goes like this: The DSS is connected to the xbox 360 through usb, my headphone is plugged in the DSS, and the DSS optical out is plugged in the TV. How can I get the DD light back on?


 
   
  Xbox 360 -> Optical cable -> DSS.   It won't work going through the TV.
   
  If you do that ^ and the 360 is set to output Dolby Digital 5.1 (it should be by default) the DD light will turn ON with the DSS.  Anytime the DD light is NOT ON, you're not getting the correct dolby digital 5.1 source, and your not getting the proper effect.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> I think your best bet would be asking that in Nameless' thread or decide for yourself after listening to audio samples either on youtube or somewhere else online.


 

 Thanks. I'm also interested in technical implementations between them. I was told CMSS-3D somehow does more with the game audio than other options, but I'm not sure how this is achieved as all modern games are essentially realtime 5.1 / 7.1 so headphone positional audio should be limited to that?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Thanks. I'm also interested in technical implementations between them. I was told CMSS-3D somehow does more with the game audio than other options, but I'm not sure how this is achieved as all modern games are essentially realtime 5.1 / 7.1 so headphone positional audio should be limited to that?


 
  Maybe on this link they can tell you of any advantages that CMSS-3D has.
  http://forums.creative.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6


----------



## dakanao

Thanks I understand guys. Just ordered the xbox 360 audio adapter.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> Thanks I understand guys. Just ordered the xbox 360 audio adapter.


 
   
  I believe the older Xboxes did not have an Optical out and component/HDMI (at all) available at the same time, so you will probably have to use the component cable (which has an optical out build in) or an adapter of sorts.
  It was only from the Slim and onward that the Xbox supports HDMI/component and Optical at the same time.
  I remember having to use the component cable on an older unit to get the optical output... Yeah it was pretty ridiculous...
   

  This thing...


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Nameless was good enough to give me some info regarding game surround sound processing for headphones. I have used Dolby Headphone but was also told about CMSS-3D as an alternative that uses binaural rather than virtual.
> 
> As I need a soundcard I expect one of these standards or something similar would be useful. I've been given a link to this to hopefully gain better clarification on the differences and hence which soundcard may be better.
> 
> ...


 
  Islam,
  If you look at my signature, and then my "If I knew then what I know now..." journal, I have a "article" written explaining headphone surround, explaining the general idea about how it works, the various options to get it, and a few samples from Youtube for CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone. I also mention the difference between 5.1/7.1 surround and binaural, and how those relate to headphone surround. That would be a good place to start and learn.
   
  Release date of headphone surround processing techniques isn't necessarily going to be the best method for you. Each person's ears are different, and different ones work better on a per person basis. Mad Lust Envy's favorite is Dolby Headphone, NamelessPFG swears by CMSS-3D, and personally, of all the different one's I've heard from owning or demoing, I liked THX TruStudio Pro the best. For me, DH (which I'm using these days from my Turtle Beach DSS) sounds more processed and has a distinct echo effect sometimes but it does produce a decent impression of front/back/side distinction of direction, CMSS-3D makes the treble sound IMO brittle and harsh (without echo problems, and also has impressed me a few times with directionality when viewing longer demos to give context to sound cues), and THX TruStudio Pro has the tonality I like with less processed sound or echoes. I think headphone choice makes a difference too... I usually use AKG Q701 headphones, if I was using my M-100 I might not feel CMSS-3D was too bright but I might also feel THX has less distinct directionality.
   
  I haven't heard Creative's newest sound card in person, the Z-series Soundblaster cards (Z, Zx, ZxR), but from YouTube demos I've heard it does a fine job, and I want to hear it in person. THX still had a slight edge in the one recording of Tomb Raider's benchmark test with different surround options, but in the end having the card in my system and played "live" is the best test. I think I'm going to re-buy the Recon3D USB so I can connect it with my Mac, Windows, and Xbox systems and get surround, but if Creative made a USB Z-series card that worked with Mac, I would get that. YMMV.


----------



## davidsh

I find dolby headphones to be like listening to surround in a room from the videos I have seen with it applied. Not very immersive. CMSS-3D does not sound like you are in a room. I find that more immersive. I don't care if either of them has slightly better positional audio... cmss-3d all teh way!
   
  Also, I don't quite understand if and how you should be able to connect the u7 to a console? Anyone know how good the coax out (would really like to know!) and headphone amp is? You can apply dolby headphones when going digital out of the card, right? I don't want to be impaired by a mediocre DAC.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Maybe on this link they can tell you of any advantages that CMSS-3D has.
> http://forums.creative.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6


 

 Thanks. I took a look at some of the posts on that link. I think I understand that CMSS-3D uses the native 5.1 game audio (is that correct as some of the posts for CMSS-3D are dated almost 10 years old which would be before games used native 5.1) Nameless broke it down as binaural compared to virtual but I don't get how native 5.1 can be anything more than virtual 5.1


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> I find dolby headphones to be like listening to surround in a room from the videos I have seen with it applied. Not very immersive. CMSS-3D does not sound like you are in a room. I find that more immersive.


 
   
  That's more or less how I feel when I fire up a game using DS3D or OpenAL.
   
  Dolby Headphone and even THX TSP/SBX Pro Surround kinda sound like I'm in a room with a home theater speaker system, while CMSS-3D Headphone practically puts my head in the game environment.
   
  I should note that for me, positional accuracy and immersion are tightly linked. It has to sound like I'm there, and if the positioning's noticeably off...well, there goes suspension of disbelief.
   
  Oh, and for any of you wondering what that "significant purchase" I hinted at earlier was, it's finally here!
   

   
  Yeah, I know, not headphones or other audio equipment...but a very significant step toward gaming immersion nonetheless.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> I find dolby headphones to be like listening to surround in a room from the videos I have seen with it applied. Not very immersive. CMSS-3D does not sound like you are in a room. I find that more immersive. I don't care if either of them has slightly better positional audio... cmss-3d all teh way!
> 
> Also, I don't quite understand if and how you should be able to connect the u7 to a console? Anyone know how good the coax out (would really like to know!) and headphone amp is? You can apply dolby headphones when going digital out of the card, right? I don't want to be impaired by a mediocre DAC.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> That's more or less how I feel when I fire up a game using DS3D or OpenAL.
> 
> Dolby Headphone and even THX TSP/SBX Pro Surround kinda sound like I'm in a room with a home theater speaker system, while CMSS-3D Headphone practically puts my head in the game environment.
> 
> I should note that for me, positional accuracy and immersion are tightly linked. It has to sound like I'm there, and if the positioning's noticeably off...well, there goes suspension of disbelief.


 
   
  I thought the idea of each method was to best simulate a full room surround setup on the headphone. But I think I understand what you're both saying. Thanks
   
  No, I don't think the U7 can be used on a console at all. It's strictly a pc / mac soundcard. The coax has an optical adapter if you need that and the headphone amp is meant to be pretty good. Some pleased users here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/669127/asus-xonar-u7-dac-amp-appreciation-impressions-thread
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/660431/asus-xonar-u7
   
  I'm actually not sure if you can use dolby headphones when going digital out of the card. Maybe someone who has it knows.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Islam,
> If you look at my signature, and then my "If I knew then what I know now..." journal, I have a "article" written explaining headphone surround, explaining the general idea about how it works, the various options to get it, and a few samples from Youtube for CMSS-3D and Dolby Headphone. I also mention the difference between 5.1/7.1 surround and binaural, and how those relate to headphone surround. That would be a good place to start and learn.
> 
> Release date of headphone surround processing techniques isn't necessarily going to be the best method for you. Each person's ears are different, and different ones work better on a per person basis. Mad Lust Envy's favorite is Dolby Headphone, NamelessPFG swears by CMSS-3D, and personally, of all the different one's I've heard from owning or demoing, I liked THX TruStudio Pro the best. For me, DH (which I'm using these days from my Turtle Beach DSS) sounds more processed and has a distinct echo effect sometimes but it does produce a decent impression of front/back/side distinction of direction, CMSS-3D makes the treble sound IMO brittle and harsh (without echo problems, and also has impressed me a few times with directionality when viewing longer demos to give context to sound cues), and THX TruStudio Pro has the tonality I like with less processed sound or echoes. I think headphone choice makes a difference too... I usually use AKG Q701 headphones, if I was using my M-100 I might not feel CMSS-3D was too bright but I might also feel THX has less distinct directionality.
> ...


 
   
  That's great. I'll take a read of that soon.
   
  Going by a post date on the Creative forum, CMSS-3D seems like the oldest standard compared to Dolby Headphone, THX TruStudio Pro and SBX. Usually with tech the newest is best but I guess as they all try to do the same thing it's a matter of implementation.
   
  I've only heard Dolby Headphone, and would have been ok to stick with that, but since I would need a new soundcard anyway I thought I'd check the various options. If I could get them all to test "live" that would be best, but I'm largely going on opinions and explanations here. Your feedback and article will no doubt provide some much needed insight.
   
  Thanks.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Thanks. I've tried some vids and will likely try some more. Nothing like hearing it for yourself.
> 
> 
> I've tried Dolby Headphone on movies and I like it but not on games so am considering my options for positional audio.
> ...


 
  Yes I would say the SBX surround is inferior to Dolby Headphone for positioning.  No, I don't experience any latency with or without DSP using the Sound Blaster Z, and I play at 120fps.


----------



## davidsh

CMSS-3D do (for a few games) support binaural sound output. This means that said games output sound in coordinates (x,y,z) and cmss-3d simulates how a sound coming from said coordinate would sound. It is actually very neat, and I don't understand wth we are still stuck with inferior 5.1/7.1 simulations.
   
  Can you apply dolby and the like when going digital out of a sound card???


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Yes I would say the SBX surround is inferior to Dolby Headphone for positioning.  No, I don't experience any latency with or without DSP using the Sound Blaster Z, and I play at 120fps.


 
  Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to hear.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





lemm said:


> Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to hear.


 
  No problem, let me know if you have any other questions.  I spent weeks testing all of this stuff!


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> CMSS-3D do (for a few games) support binaural sound output. This means that said games output sound in coordinates (x,y,z) and cmss-3d simulates how a sound coming from said coordinate would sound. It is actually very neat, and I don't understand wth we are still stuck with inferior 5.1/7.1 simulations.
> 
> Can you apply dolby and the like when going digital out of a sound card???


 

 That does sound very neat. But given speaker systems are 5.1/7.1 doesn't that mean such x,y,z co-ordinates are only in-game audio that are generated in real time and then being output as discrete 5.1/7.1 and it's the 5.1/7.1 that is used in a virtual headphone implementation? Or is there something else I'm not getting?
   
  No, I can't apply any virtual headphone solution for games. My digital out has no processing on it hence my need for a new headphone surround option.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I believe the older Xboxes did not have an Optical out and component/HDMI (at all) available at the same time, so you will probably have to use the component cable (which has an optical out build in) or an adapter of sorts.
> It was only from the Slim and onward that the Xbox supports HDMI/component and Optical at the same time.
> I remember having to use the component cable on an older unit to get the optical output... Yeah it was pretty ridiculous...
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah that's true. My 360 is from 2008, it has an HDMI input, but no optical input.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *lemm* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> That does sound very neat. But given speaker systems are 5.1/7.1 doesn't that mean such x,y,z co-ordinates are only in-game audio that are generated in real time and then being output as discrete 5.1/7.1 and it's the 5.1/7.1 that is used in a virtual headphone implementation? Or is there something else I'm not getting?
> 
> No, I can't apply any virtual headphone solution for games. My digital out has no processing on it.


 
  The idea is, that you simulate the HRTF (what allows us to hear direction) of the average person, and then use those coordinates to put the sound into a virtual space, from which you can create the illusion of direction and distance. Kinda like binaural music.
   
  And you are using what card?


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> The idea is, that you simulate the HRTF (what allows us to hear direction) of the average person, and then use those coordinates to put the sound into a virtual space, from which you can create the illusion of direction and distance. Kinda like binaural music.
> 
> And you are using what card?


 
  Ok thanks. So rather than simulate a 5.1/7.1 suround speaker setup CMSS-3D simulates a virtual 3d space using audio perceived co-ordinates. That's very different to Dolby Headphone that tries to simulate the native 5.1/7.1
   
  Card is on my mb, either multichannel analog out or optical that has no further processing beyond standard 2 channel or DTS/DD pass thru.


----------



## Missfi

I have ran across this switch (http://www.kinivo.com/Kinivo-HS420-AD-Premium-Optical-Supports/dp/B0092RE8BY) which is an HDMI hub that also has optical OUT depending on which switch is currently being used. Would this be a good solution to use with something like the Fiio E17 (http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/) to hook up with XBOX's & PS3's etc?


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> That's more or less how I feel when I fire up a game using DS3D or OpenAL.
> 
> Dolby Headphone and even THX TSP/SBX Pro Surround kinda sound like I'm in a room with a home theater speaker system, while CMSS-3D Headphone practically puts my head in the game environment.
> 
> ...



Woah, duuuude!



lemm said:


> Ok thanks. So rather than simulate a 5.1/7.1 suround speaker setup CMSS-3D simulates a virtual 3d space using audio perceived co-ordinates. That's very different to Dolby Headphone that tries to simulate the native 5.1/7.1
> 
> Card is on my mb, either multichannel analog out or optical that has no further processing beyond standard 2 channel or DTS/DD pass thru.



Yeah, the most common surround is processed into channels (5 or 7 plus subwoofer) so that a home-theater speaker array can play them. When you have two speakers directly mated to your ears, the simulation of surround can actually be far more accurate; a sound can appear to come from somewhere inbetween where two loudspeakers sit. When music is recorded with microphones (two) inside a dummy head, it's called Binaural recording, designed to record what your ears would hear if actually at the performance.

Sad part is, positional headphone surround was at it's peak when PC gaming was pretty popular... Well, PC gaming (and headphones) may be starting to come back due to Steam and (gotta admit it) Beats headphones, but also true is that lately most games were designed-first for consoles, and the only surround they offer is designed for 5.1 loudspeaker, home-theater style surround. You can still get a good experience though, and luckily Creative's 3D positioning headphone surround tech still makes the most of whatever it's fed. I still prefer THX TruStudio Pro, though Creative has the research to make the best gaming surround, of only they could market it well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> The idea is, that you simulate the HRTF (what allows us to hear direction) of the average person, and then use those coordinates to put the sound into a virtual space, from which you can create the illusion of direction and distance. Kinda like binaural music.
> 
> And you are using what card?


 
   
  Which coordinates? Coordinates or let's say it in X-Fi terms: The capability of 128 max. voices placed, rendered, positioned in the HRTF is impossible without OpenAL or DirectSound3D. People should be aware of the fact that most CMSS-3d strengths are useless in a time where middleware audio mixes everything and leaves the stream for the "rest". This is very unfortunate and a failure thanks to MS and Creative's stubbornness. So given that CMSS-3D can't do more than any other card does, except on OpenAL and DS3D games - for middlewaer games it's worse due to heavy SQ influences. That's maybe more of a problem if you use high end headphones.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Which coordinates? Coordinates or let's say it in X-Fi terms: The capability of 128 max. voices placed, rendered, positioned in the HRTF is impossible without OpenAL or DirectSound3D. People should be aware of the fact that most CMSS-3d strengths are useless in a time where middleware audio mixes everything and leaves the stream for the "rest". This is very unfortunate and a failure thanks to MS and Creative's stubbornness. So given that CMSS-3D can't do more than any other card does, except on OpenAL and DS3D games - for middlewaer games it's *worse due to heavy SQ influences**. That's maybe more of a problem if you use high end headphones.


 
  True, thought I mentioned that?
   
  *I guess that is just an assumption?


----------



## Fegefeuer

it depends on the gear. With a X1 it should be more forgiving, with the HD 800 some games are almost unplayable. HD 800 + Bioshock Infinite had hurtful sibillance, but generally the "tin can" effect is very revealed. The X-Fi is the ultimate legacy gaming card but when you "only" have the lowest level (middleware) available SQ starts to become more important. Most solutions aren't too bad. If I had a technical ranking it would be CMSS-3D > SBX -> DHP -> THX Tru Studio Pro. On a Signal Quality Level it is SBX > THX >  CMSS-3D/Dolby Headphone
   
  PS4 and the Xbox One do have dedicated hardware audio acc. Who could build a new PC API for upcoming games? Will we see OpenAL again? I'm really curious.


----------



## benbenkr

Well since we're on VSS tech, I posted this over at Overclock3D a while ago... it's rather brief, but I don't know if it'll add to the discussion -
   
  Having tested and used all 4 main VSS technologies extensively, here's my summarized view on them:
   
  *note*
  Not all VSS technologies work well for all types of headphone, for example Dolby Headphones does not generally work too well with most closed headsets/headphones. This is due to the reverb DH has and having a closed headphones bounces the "echo" effect, leading to what many refer to as "like being in a tunnel".
   
*CMSS-3D*
  They still have the best positional cues over amongst the 3 VSS technologies, they are still the ones to go for if your primary needs is absolute positional accuracy.
  The downside of CMSS-3D is that it makes the audio sound overly thin, it's worst especially if you use it with bass-shy headphones and even more so if they're open ones. Though there are people who do feel that the "tin can" effect does help even more with positional accuracy as it accentuates the mid-high frequencies, leading to picking up audio cues around the player.
   
  I for one personally think that if you want CMSS-3D to behave like an all rounder, you'll want to use a closed headphone/headset and do at least have tight bass.
   
*Dolby Headphones*
  They're honestly the worst VSS tech in terms of positional accuracy IF you're using it on a closed headphone with relatively narrow soundstage. Many people do not understand that for DH to shine, open headphones with decent soundstage and some possess at least some tight bass is a must. I use DH with a HE-400 and K702, they're just SWEEET. Positional accuracy is indeed still not as good as CMSS-3D, but the immersion I get... I'm willing to look that off.
   
  Because of this, Dolby Headphones generally work nice with movies too. Much better than CMSS-3D at least.
   
*THX Surround*
  I don't know what went wrong with THX Surround honestly because what I feel is that it is very inconsistent. In most games, THX surround just doesn't project proper positional accuracy but instead over emphasize on immersion. I honestly only found THX Surround usable with Battlefield 3, I don't know why... but any other FPS or games, THX surround just sounds dull... lifeless.
   
  Some users do however feel that THX Surround provides the best immersion and is good for movies, I personally don't feel that way as I think Dolby Headphones fits that bill better... for me, at least.
   
*SBX Surround*
  It's been quite on the upward spiral lately, what THX Surround did wrong... Creative took it and modified whatever they needed to and the result is something I would call: the marriage between Dolby Headphones and CMSS-3D.
  SBX does not have better positional accuracy than CMSS-3D, but it IS better than Dolby Headphones (even with a good open headphone combo). It doesn't present that "tin can" effect or have too much reverb.
   
  Best of all, I feel that SBX Surround just works with any type of headphones. Be it open, semi-open or closed. SBX fits well within the range and although it doesn't get to be as accurate or as immersive with CMSS-3D and DH, I think SBX is the best all rounder for someone who just wants to game and watch movies.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Very nice roundup benbenkr. My impressions are basically the same with SBX being the best allrounder and especially not being the same as THX TSP.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Islam,
> If you look at my signature, and then my "If I knew then what I know now..." journal, I have a "article" written explaining headphone surround, explaining the general idea about how it works, the various options to get it, and a few samples from Youtube ...


 
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Yeah, the most common surround is processed into channels (5 or 7 plus subwoofer) so that a home-theater speaker array can play them. When you have two speakers directly mated to your ears, the simulation of surround can actually be far more accurate; a sound can appear to come from somewhere inbetween where two loudspeakers sit. When music is recorded with microphones (two) inside a dummy head, it's called Binaural recording, designed to record what your ears would hear if actually at the performance.
> 
> Sad part is, positional headphone surround was at it's peak when PC gaming was pretty popular... Well, PC gaming (and headphones) may be starting to come back due to Steam and (gotta admit it) Beats headphones, but also true is that lately most games were designed-first for consoles, and the only surround they offer is designed for 5.1 loudspeaker, home-theater style surround. You can still get a good experience though, and luckily Creative's 3D positioning headphone surround tech still makes the most of whatever it's fed. I still prefer THX TruStudio Pro, though Creative has the research to make the best gaming surround, of only they could market it well.


 
   
  That was very useful. I had seen a lot of that before such as the YouTube vids and some quotes you referenced, but the explanation of how 3D surround works was not so clearly provided elsewhere. Thanks.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> Having tested and used all 4 main VSS technologies extensively, here's my summarized view on them:...


 
   
  Again, a nice summary of how each one may sound. Thanks.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> No problem, let me know if you have any other questions.  I spent weeks testing all of this stuff!


 
  Actually, I do have another question on this. I'm assuming games that are encoded to use 3D surround on a headphone also include 5.1/7.1 for use with home cinema systems?


----------



## lemm

I can see opinions here are divided between all the available option and each persons experience along with the explanation of how things work should allow a more informed decision. But I'm left wondering one thing: how common are the different audio encoding options in games? Are most games now encoded to use 3D surround thereby making CMSS-3D/SBX/THX more useful? Or is discrete multi-channel like in movies still more common in which case Dolby Headphone would be most useful? (And if so is 7.1 more widespread than 5.1 in current games which would allow for better positional audio?)


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Honestly though, if you can spring for the Fidelio X1, I completely recommend going for that instead. It's like a better behaved 990, with strong bass and really good mid to treble linearity. Gaming performance is on par as well. Best thing, they need very little power, so the Mixamp alone is fine. I know my review isn't up, but it's worth it.


 
   
  How would you compare the quantity/quality of sub bass between the 990 (250ohm) and the X1?


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





lemm said:


> I can see opinions here are divided between all the available option and each persons experience along with the explanation of how things work should allow a more informed decision. But I'm left wondering one thing: how common are the different audio encoding options in games? Are most games now encoded to use 3D surround thereby making CMSS-3D/SBX/THX more useful? Or is discrete multi-channel like in movies still more common in which case Dolby Headphone would be most useful? (And if so is 7.1 more widespread than 5.1 in current games which would allow for better positional audio?)


 
   
   
  Quote: 





lemm said:


> Actually, I do have another question on this. I'm assuming games that are encoded to use 3D surround on a headphone also include 5.1/7.1 for use with home cinema systems?


 

 You're actually looking at several different options.  First of all, most games support at least 5.1 surround output, meant for home cinemas, but also used for Dolby Headphone.  Take a look at this list:  http://satsun.org/audio/
   
  Regarding SBX/THX, this is another option for simulating surround.  When using these, you want to have your game in headphone mode, with 2-channel output.  The SBX/THX software does the rest.
   
  Regarding games "encoded to use 3D surround on a headphone" this is something that certain games do attempt, but not many.  I'm only aware of a couple.  In BF3, you use their 3D simulation encoding by using headphone mode and checking "use enhanced stereo."  Dirt Showdown also has their own 3D simulation encoding called Rapture3D.
   
  I've tried all 3 of the above mentioned options and prefer 5.1 output with Dolby Headphone for positioning.  Oh, and BTW, trying to combine any of these doesn't work well.  It makes things sound really strange and positioning is pretty much lost.
   
  Edit:  I just read benbenkr's assessment and should add that I've only ever used Dolby Headphone with what he describes as optimal headphones: "open headphones with decent soundstage and some possess at least some tight bass."  So the kind of headphones you're using might be an influence as to which technology you go with.  Also, another thing to keep in mind is that the older the sound card, the more likely you will have issues with the driver.  The two Xonar cards I tried both caused driver crashes, only fixed by using the unified driver developed by a third-party.  If you read reviews of older cards on newer systems, you'll see lots of reports of issues.  The drivers are not continually updated.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lemm said:


> I can see opinions here are divided between all the available option and each persons experience along with the explanation of how things work should allow a more informed decision. But I'm left wondering one thing: how common are the different audio encoding options in games? Are most games now encoded to use 3D surround thereby making CMSS-3D/SBX/THX more useful? Or is discrete multi-channel like in movies still more common in which case Dolby Headphone would be most useful? (And if so is 7.1 more widespread than 5.1 in current games which would allow for better positional audio?)


 
  I believe console gaming is now leading and PC games follow their lead.
  So with a console it really does not make sense to have game audio more then basic 7.1 (8-channel) or even 5.1 surround sound. So I would think modern PC games would not really have a good incentive to offer anything better (would not really increase PC games sales).


----------



## daleb

5.1 is still the most common type of audio in gaming.


----------



## miceblue

Does anyone know of albums with 5.1? I know they exist but I don't now of any.


----------



## d3javu

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Picked up a multi-headphone stand at Bed Bath and Beyond that someone had mistakenly mis-labeled as "mug holder."


 
   
  Quick question, what did you do to your AKGs to make them look more comfortable on the head band?
  Thanks!  Mine give me a slight headache after a few hours and that looks like a good solution!


----------



## chicolom

I just attached some padding and hold it on with two velcro ties.  Seatbelt pads work well. 
   
  That's an old pic ^ - the padding I use know is a little piece of memory foam (again, cut from a seatbelt pad then stitched together).  I still hold it on with the velcro ties though.
   
  Looks like this:


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Does anyone know of albums with 5.1? I know they exist but I don't now of any.


 
  Try doing an Internet search for "5.1 Music", looks like some music disks use DTS 5.1 surround sound for audio tracks.


----------



## Evshrug

lemm said:


> That was very useful. I had seen a lot of that before such as the YouTube vids and some quotes you referenced, but the explanation of how 3D surround works was not so clearly provided elsewhere. Thanks.



This is the short version of what I typed in my "article" linked in my signature. I felt that there wasn't a good explanation for the layman, just "Here it is!" I spent a while reading to understand the benefit of a game that doesn't have positional audio funneled into 5 channels.





lemm said:


> I can see opinions here are divided between all the available option and each persons experience along with the explanation of how things work should allow a more informed decision. But I'm left wondering one thing: how common are the different audio encoding options in games? Are most games now encoded to use 3D surround thereby making CMSS-3D/SBX/THX more useful? Or is discrete multi-channel like in movies still more common in which case Dolby Headphone would be most useful? (And if so is 7.1 more widespread than 5.1 in current games which would allow for better positional audio?)



The two encoding options I know of in games that give positional data, instead of in-game mixing to 5.1, are OpenAL and DS3D. No console games use these, but some games that appear on console and PC (like Borderlands 2) do have a thing like OpenAL. By the way, borderlands 2 was the most recent game I'm aware of that has OpenAL, but it's a little buried and takes a little configuration outside of the game to get it to work. 5.1 surround is relatively common though, 7.1 a little less common.

Something like Call of Duty (my fav is 4, the first modern warfare) has pretty good positional info, where it lacks compared to OpenAL implementation is sometimes you can't tell if someone is around the corner or upstairs from you. Height is the main benefit of OpenAL. I could swear Halo:Reach had height perception mixed in-game though, so there may be exceptions where the game engine simulates that for you. Would be easier just to use the OpenAL standard.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I believe console gaming is now leading and PC games follow their lead.
> So with a console it really does not make sense to have game audio more then basic 7.1 (8-channel) or even 5.1 surround sound. So I would think modern PC games would not really have a good incentive to offer anything better (would not really increase PC games sales).


 
   
   
  Quote: 





daleb said:


> 5.1 is still the most common type of audio in gaming.


 
   

 In light of this I don't see why it would be worth worrying too much about 3D audio in games unless the specific games we like has a 3D headphone audio option. Thanks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There's no magic involved. Middleware has all the exact positional information, voices.

It could do the same as CMSS-3D (like elevation), it's just too CPU-bound so it's less precise and accurate and often only does the most basic stuff like doppler, panning, matrix etc...and relies more on prebaked audio (Dead Space is a heavy contender here). Some Xbox 360 games occupied a single core just for audio, it was inevitable for the Xbox One to get a dedicated audio chip. The current consoles kept that standard in all these years. Easier for multiplats, easier for porting to PC, less driver problems or hickups compared with DS3D etc...
A few titles like Killzone etc..went beyond that standard and did stuff like wave tracing. Killzone game audio is among the best you can get. Killzone Shadow Fall uses the whole Ram of a Xbox 360 just for audio (DF tech analysis).

With the new generation the bar will be raised and we get more CPU-intensive audio, which is not a problem for the platform PC. There's the technical potential and then there's the designer's talent. All the horsepower is useless if the designer is mediocre. See plenty of movies, blockbusters as well.

Middleware like fmod, miles etc...could start working with binaural algorithms, FIR filters, HRTF measurements to offer something for the headphone craze so ingame headphone modes behave like CMSS-3D and better. Then we don't need DHP, SBX etc.. anymore.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> You're actually looking at several different options.  First of all, most games support at least 5.1 surround output, meant for home cinemas, but also used for Dolby Headphone.  Take a look at this list:  http://satsun.org/audio/
> 
> Regarding SBX/THX, this is another option for simulating surround.  When using these, you want to have your game in headphone mode, with 2-channel output.  The SBX/THX software does the rest.
> 
> ...


 
  So SBX/THX simulate virtual surround from a standard stereo source and CMSS-3D decodes an enhanced stereo source? Thanks
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> This is the short version of what I typed in my "article" linked in my signature. I felt that there wasn't a good explanation for the layman, just "Here it is!" I spent a while reading to understand the benefit of a game that doesn't have positional audio funneled into 5 channels.
> The two encoding options I know of in games that give positional data, instead of in-game mixing to 5.1, are OpenAL and DS3D. No console games use these, but some games that appear on console and PC (like Borderlands 2) do have a thing like OpenAL. By the way, borderlands 2 was the most recent game I'm aware of that has OpenAL, but it's a little buried and takes a little configuration outside of the game to get it to work. 5.1 surround is relatively common though, 7.1 a little less common.
> 
> Something like Call of Duty (my fav is 4, the first modern warfare) has pretty good positional info, where it lacks compared to OpenAL implementation is sometimes you can't tell if someone is around the corner or upstairs from you. Height is the main benefit of OpenAL. I could swear Halo:Reach had height perception mixed in-game though, so there may be exceptions where the game engine simulates that for you. Would be easier just to use the OpenAL standard.


 
  As OpenAL and DS3D are still comparatively rare in games compared to 5.1 but still may be used in specific games a person likes it's a shame there isn't one soundcard that has all these standards.
   
  Thanks for the clear info.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What? For SBX you set your input to 5.1, not 2.0.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> What? For SBX you set your input to 5.1, not 2.0.


 

 I haven't seen instructions as to whether it should be 5.1 or 2.0.  When I fed a 5.1 signal with SBX surround, the positioning was worse than when I fed it a 2 channel signal, so I'm just basing it on my own testing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

With headphones? Can't confirm this.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lemm said:


> In light of this I don't see why it would be worth worrying too much about 3D audio in games unless the specific games we like has a 3D headphone audio option. Thanks.


 
  DTS now has "DTS X" 11 point (11-channel?) Headphone Surround Sound, so maybe Sony will add DTS X, as an update, to the Play Station?
   
  I believe the Man of Steel Blu-ray will be the first movie disk to support DTS X.
  Maybe future Play Station games will come with DTS X audio?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Hm okay. I have to wonder how it'll sound compared to a stereo binaural recording since don't have any immediate experience with 5.1.


----------



## Fegefeuer

purpleangel said:


> DTS now has "DTS X" 11 point (11-channel?) Headphone Surround Sound, so maybe Sony will add DTS X, as an update, to the Play Station?
> 
> I believe the Man of Steel Blu-ray will be the first movie disk to support DTS X.
> Maybe future Play Station games will come with DTS X audio?




From what I read DTS Headphone X relies on binaural information embedded in the DTS HD stream. In games we need engine support. The Audio renderer needs to add binaural information to the stream or create a direct binaural signal. I don't really believe Datasat to have a powerful middleware ready to do exactly that and you need to convince dev to use it. First you need to beat FMOD and Co.


----------



## dakanao

What is the best headphone for competitive and fun gaming, while still being good for music like rap/hiphop and dubstep?


----------



## LNCPapa

I've got this MLE the answer is Philips X1


----------



## daleb

So, I installed Razer surround sound to see how it works, and I have found out that it decides it wants to be my default audio device. Is there anyway to stop that? You can't use DAWs or anything audio related while its on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lncpapa said:


> I've got this MLE the answer is Philips X1




Yup.


----------



## xEzio

I can't decide between the DT990 Pro or the AKG K702.
   
  What do you guys think? Will be on a budget setup for now.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> There's no magic involved. Middleware has all the exact positional information, voices.
> 
> It could do the same as CMSS-3D (like elevation), it's just too CPU-bound so it's less precise and accurate and often only does the most basic stuff like doppler, panning, matrix etc...and relies more on prebaked audio (Dead Space is a heavy contender here). Some Xbox 360 games occupied a single core just for audio, it was inevitable for the Xbox One to get a dedicated audio chip. The current consoles kept that standard in all these years. Easier for multiplats, easier for porting to PC, less driver problems or hickups compared with DS3D etc...
> A few titles like Killzone etc..went beyond that standard and did stuff like wave tracing. Killzone game audio is among the best you can get. Killzone Shadow Fall uses the whole Ram of a Xbox 360 just for audio (DF tech analysis).
> ...


 
   
  Agreed.
   
  Now that both next-gen consoles — the PS4 and Xbox One has a dedicated audio processor in them, it should be the stop for developers saying "we're too CPU bound, we don't have enough memory, there's no extra resource" excuses put into the bin.
   
  I look forward to seeing better audio quality not only on positional accuracy and other sorts of HRTF/VSS tech involved, but as a whole because this department has remained stagnant for a very, very long time.
  Such a shame too when there are so many games that actually put so much effort into creating amazing audio scores, but gets unrecognized in the long run.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





xezio said:


> I can't decide between the DT990 Pro or the AKG K702.
> 
> What do you guys think? Will be on a budget setup for now.


 
  What source(s) will you be plugging the headphones into?


----------



## xEzio

I haven't found one yet. Mind recommending me some? @PurpleAngel


----------



## minion1990

hey MLE, when will you've finished your X1 review?


----------



## ethan7000

xezio said:


> I haven't found one yet. Mind recommending me some?


 How much do you want to spend total? Are you using a PC or console?


----------



## dakanao

Just got done gaming with Dolby Headphone with my K540's. I noticed that a lot of times there's a certain echo to the sound as a whole, like when I call in a UAV, or a sniper shoots his bullets. I also noticed slight improvement in positional cues, but nothing major. But I know that's because my K540's aren't well suited for gaming.


----------



## xEzio

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> How much do you want to spend total? Are you using a PC or console?


 
  Around $100ish for the set up (Does not include headphones). It will be for PC and maybe PS3/4.


----------



## lemm

After discussing all the various options for virtual headphone surround I think I missed the obvious. To recap, all the options such as DH, CMSS-3D, THX, SBX etc take the available native audio (usually 5.1) and try to recreate the multichannel sound convincingly over stereo headphones through their different processing methods. But how is this different from simply setting the audio to 2 channel? Obviously doing this doesn't only pass the discrete Front Left + Front Right audio from the multichannel source that is playing but will process all channels in real time and pass the sound appropriately to the 2 headphone speakers. Personal preference to better positional accuracy and sound quality aside, isn't that essentially the same thing?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lemm said:


> After discussing all the various options for virtual headphone surround I think I missed the obvious. To recap, all the options such as DH, CMSS-3D, THX, SBX etc take the available native audio (usually 5.1) and try to recreate the multichannel sound convincingly over stereo headphones through their different processing methods. But how is this different from simply setting the audio to 2 channel? Obviously doing this doesn't only pass the discrete Front Left + Front Right audio from the multichannel source that is playing but will process all channels in real time and pass the sound appropriately to the 2 headphone speakers. Personal preference to better positional accuracy and sound quality aside, isn't that essentially the same thing?


 
  I guess setting to 2-channel, 5.1 or 7.1 audio is just dumped into 2-channels?
   
  Or maybe the two "front" channels contain bigger audio tracks than the the other channels.
  So only the two front channels are sent to the headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





lemm said:


> After discussing all the various options for virtual headphone surround I think I missed the obvious. To recap, all the options such as DH, CMSS-3D, THX, SBX etc take the available native audio (usually 5.1) and try to recreate the multichannel sound convincingly over stereo headphones through their different processing methods. But how is this different from simply setting the audio to 2 channel? Obviously doing this doesn't only pass the discrete Front Left + Front Right audio from the multichannel source that is playing but will process all channels in real time and pass the sound appropriately to the 2 headphone speakers. Personal preference to better positional accuracy and sound quality aside, isn't that essentially the same thing?


 
  I guess setting to 2-channel, 5.1 or 7.1 audio is just dumped into 2-channels?
   
  Or maybe the two "front" channels contain bigger audio tracks than the the other channels.
  So only the two front channels are sent to the headphones?


----------



## Evshrug

lemm said:


> After discussing all the various options for virtual headphone surround I think I missed the obvious. To recap, all the options such as DH, CMSS-3D, THX, SBX etc take the available native audio (usually 5.1) and try to recreate the multichannel sound convincingly over stereo headphones through their different processing methods. But how is this different from simply setting the audio to 2 channel? Obviously doing this doesn't only pass the discrete Front Left + Front Right audio from the multichannel source that is playing but will process all channels in real time and pass the sound appropriately to the 2 headphone speakers. Personal preference to better positional accuracy and sound quality aside, isn't that essentially the same thing?




Here, I don't think this is necessarily equivalent to a "best case scenario," but here's a video sample so you'll just hear the difference:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em

Here's a sample with SBX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuck0NrXV0&sns=em


----------



## daleb

I ended up uninstalling Razer, it was messing up my audio device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Here, I don't think this is necessarily equivalent to a "best case scenario," but here's a video sample so you'll just hear the difference:
> [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em[/video]
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em
> ...




That Mirror's edge demo had some really stereo-like hard left/right pans for SBX surround (listen to the helicopter). Sounded like expanded stereo to me. Forget that.. didn't like SBX.... AT ALL. It's more fatiguing than CMSS-3D, and less capable of actual surround emulation, if this demo is any indication.

The BF3 demo did DH and CMSS-3D justice. I don't think it's a good representation of THX Tru Studio, which I feel does better than the video showed. 

CMSS-3D had some pretty damn good positional cues, but the rear positional cues were DEFINITELY not on par with DH to me. And it further solidified my belief that CMSS-3D is way too treble tilted and a bad match for headphones that have emphasized treble to begin with. If the rear positional cues get better with other games, CMSS-3D with dark headphones MIGHT be a very good setup. As it stands, it sounds like they cut off frequencies at a certain point, so the bass disappeared.

I'd wanna hear more demos with CMSS-3D anda warm headphone like the 650. All I know is that the X1 had very little *rear* cue accuracy in CMSS-3D, but did just fine in Dolby Headphone.

Dolby Headphone wins for me again, despite the less than ideal warmer tone for pure analyzing. It just does the surround effect the best, with the least fatigue to me. Easily the most immersive.

Hard left/right panning is just unnatural in every way. Your ears never go through that. That's why the free Razer/SBX surround is just not... good.


----------



## Naingolann

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I ended up uninstalling Razer, it was messing up my audio device.


 
   
  I also did unistall it because the sound kept on skipping and the volume on the left channel would turn up or down by itself while gaming. Oh wells...it was free for a reason after all.


----------



## lemm

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Here, I don't think this is necessarily equivalent to a "best case scenario," but here's a video sample so you'll just hear the difference:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em
> Here's a sample with SBX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuck0NrXV0&sns=em


 
   
  Thanks. They all sound ok in slightly different ways, even the standard stereo.
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> I guess setting to 2-channel, 5.1 or 7.1 audio is just dumped into 2-channels?
> 
> Or maybe the two "front" channels contain bigger audio tracks than the the other channels.
> So only the two front channels are sent to the headphones?


 
  After comparing my headphone out and the analog multichannel out and effectively muting specific channels to see what sound is present from each position, I can say it is the individual 5.1 that is being sent to the 2 headphone channels. Having spoken about the other methods it seems like even selecting standard stereo creates a comparable effect on a headphone. Everyone's mentioned their personal preference between the different virtual headphone surround options, but is anyone of the opinion that the standard mixed stereo is preferred? Thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> Here, I don't think this is necessarily equivalent to a "best case scenario," but here's a video sample so you'll just hear the difference:
> [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em[/video]
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em
> ...




Drawing conclusions from that video leads nowhere. Hardware OpenAL with CMSS-3D is unbeatable in theory, the only drawback is the sound degrading done by CMSS-3D. Anyway: Here you have Software OpenAL without Creative's HRTF library (for which they actually did a lot of work back then) compared against the whole stuff.

See my video comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM&hd=1 THX TruStudio Pro

vs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhwUT4BYMk&hd=1 CMSS-3D

Here you have the same panning problem so the conclusion of there stereo effect of SBX theoretically applies to THX Tru Studio as well. However the uploader did not have the right settings. I am creating a video right now which will show the difference to THX. 

Other than that we need to test more modern games so all solutions have an even basis.


----------



## dakanao

How does the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 Ohm compare to the Philips Fidelio X1?


----------



## chicolom

Inner Fidelity First Impressions of DTS Headphone:X
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-impressions-dts-headphonex


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mirror's Edge

THX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM&hd=1 

SBX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ixb4kk6HwM&hd=1 

CMSS-3D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhwUT4BYMk&hd=1

I recorded a SBX run with CMSS-3D like EQ settings (really interesting) but somehow the EQ is bypassed, The hell!?! :confused_face:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Mirror's Edge
> 
> THX http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM&hd=1
> 
> ...




Okay, I don't know what's going on with people's settings, but THX Tru Studio sounds too stereo like in that video, and it does NOT represent what I hear, which is legit virtual surround like Dolby Headphone. SBX still sounds horrible, and CMSS 3D sounds like I expected it to sound.


----------



## Evshrug

Fegefeuer,
Those are some very well-done demos, thank you for your work.
Maybe my ears aren't well trained, but I didn't hear a glaring example of a hard left-right pan, except when hitting the instant-reverse-direction button to control the character (which, to me, makes sense that it wouldn't smoothly pan around, function of the game not the DSP suite).

THX sounded like 3D surround for me, one example of a highlight was @ 0:38-0:40 with the bullets pinging off the air conditioning tower at the 11 o'clock position. It did sound better when played through 720p playback quality.

If my experience with THX compared to your THX YouTube demo is any indication, I would also be happy with SBX. Positioning of the helicopter was obvious though out essentially the entire video, the surround effect was very pronounced and I liked it. The police pistol bullets hitting the blue stairs was particularly a cool example of positioning (and EAX?), although at 1:42 caused some distortion where Faith got hit by a bullet (with my M-100 plugged straight into my iPad).

CMSS-3D sounded good as well, though not a big stand out from the other's. I laughed a little at the end of the video.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The helicopter sounds pretty much entirely all in one ear. You should have some decent crossfeed, which the vids lacked. Rear cue placement for THX was... not even close to good. 16 seconds into the THX vid, the rear cues were non-existent).

Anyways, the DTS-X demo/program/app was pretty convincing in the speaker placement test, except the high rears which were oddly not as 'behind' as the standard rear cues. I'm interested in seeing this take off as a new DSP.


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> Fegefeuer,
> Those are some very well-done demos, thank you for your work.
> Maybe my ears aren't well trained, but I didn't hear a glaring example of a hard left-right pan, except when hitting the instant-reverse-direction button to control the character (which, to me, makes sense that it wouldn't smoothly pan around, function of the game not the DSP suite).
> 
> ...




Hi,

the distortion didn't happen ingame, I was wondering as well when controlling the video how the hell this piece got into.
The bullet rendering is OpenAL work. If only OpenAL would have gotten widespread acceptance. Everyone benefits though obviously X-Fi cards most. 

Name me a few games and I'll do some recordings for you. I'm uploading a short Tomb Raider 2013 run right now. 

Unfortunately there's separation and detail lost when encoding videos, more so when Youtube does its own. I need to find out how to upload videos the best way possible, much more on the audio side of course. Windows Movie Maker only allows 192kbit/mp3 but it seems that highst youtube quality (except original) is 192kbit as well.

Edit: Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inmm65q_vFo&hd=1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've started on my X1 review. Writing in most things other than the sound quality stuff, which I will start writing in with more testing. It's been a long hiatus from the X1, so I need to reacquaint myself to it's sound before I start reviewing it.


----------



## Mackem

I would like to go down the headphone plus microphone route but I just hit a lot of bumps along the way. For example, I game / listen to music mostly on a night so I can't have open headphones but then the closed headphones I've tried clamp too much and make my glasses being pressed right up against my head, which is uncomfortable after a while but not as uncomfortable as when I end up with jaw fatigue from the headphones.

Can anyone give me a few headphones to look into that are closed circumaural and REALLY comfortable?


----------



## waatttt

Hi, I'm very new to this forum and I rarely post on forums in general but I like the way this community looks and it seems like there are many informed members so I wanted to ask a couple things. I'm in the market for a new gaming headset. I'm looking for a budget headset for PC maybe up to 120$ or so.
   
  My main concern is a little different from most of what's being discussed but I was wondering about build quality. I have been having so many issues with buying budget gaming headsets that fail after a few months of use. I don't have a large budget but I've been putting out 50~80$ for gaming headsets that fail very quickly. Does anyone else have problems with headsets having relatively cheap build quality? I never bought high-end 200$+ headsets so I have no idea about those but most of the headsets I use will break after regular use for a couple months to maybe a year at the most. I end up having a speaker fail because of wiring coming loose or a headband snapping because of cheap plastic or the mic failing.. etc. I'm not that rough on my headsets but I'm not going to say I'm extremely gentle with them.
   
  I was wondering if you guys have any issues with build quality? If so what brands and models gave you the most issues? What brands seem to have the best quality and last the longest? What head sets or head phones have you been using the longest without them failing?
   
  I would like to find a well rounded headset with a nice build quality but also nice sound quality that's strong in the fun and competitive catagories such as the Skullcandy Slyr that was reviewed or the Creative Aurvana Live. I just don't know about their build quality too much. I know that in this review so far it's more or less been said that the build quality is decent on the Skullcandy Slyr and the plastic material is acceptable but I'm not too sure yet. If anyone who owns them can put in some further input such as how the wiring is or such that would be great.
   
  From my reading so far on reviews and threads it looks like brands such as Sennheiser, Platronics and Steel Series have the best build quality. Specifically I'm looking at the Platronics GameCom 780 and the SteelSeries Siberia V2 atm. This is only based off build quality though, I don't know how their sound quality is yet, does anyone have any idea on this? I was most interested in the Creative Sound Blaster Tatic3D Sigma which appeared sturdy enough. So far I've had the best experiences with Creative headsets in general and was hearing that their new models have nice sound and mic quality but I've been reading that they're made pretty cheaply which is really disappointing if it's true. I'm pretty sure a Sennheiser seems like the safest option but that price margin would really hurt for me at the moment. I don't know much about Tritton headphones but their price seems to be a bit much for what you get. The only Turtle Beach set that caught my eye was the Turtle Beach Z6A. It apparently uses 8 speakers for surround sound instead of  software to emulate it but after reading about how easily it can break I'm way too paranoid about it. I don't think I'll go with Turtle Beach.
   
  So pretty much I'm considering the Skullcandy Slyr and Sound Blaster Tatic3D Sigma but am unsure of the build quality and the Platronics GameCom 780 and the SteelSeries Siberia V2 but am unsure of the sound quality.
   
  Also I see Mad Lust Envy is very active here, thank you for posting the guide. I've looked through the list many times and I hope you continue to add more headsets soon.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Hi,
> 
> the distortion didn't happen ingame, I was wondering as well when controlling the video how the hell this piece got into.
> The bullet rendering is OpenAL work. If only OpenAL would have gotten widespread acceptance. Everyone benefits though obviously X-Fi cards most.
> ...




Yeah, double-compression definitely hurts the effect. I had to turn off Crystalizer and almost all enhancements in the THX suite before I was happy. So, I understand that things improve when you're actually playing with the card, but still I hear the difference from Stereo in the YouTube vid, and I think that would be an eye-opener for many.

There are so many good games out right now, I can't keep up with them  I don't mean to make you work, but I would like to hear demos of Batman: Arkham City or Borderlands 2, if you are interested  perhaps, could you upload a "no effects stereo" vid of the same test area in Mirror's edge, for comparison sale?

Lastly, could I copy your links into my Headphone Surround article? I think they are the best as any youtube demos for reference, and I'd like to be able to easily refer people to them


----------



## dakanao

The Fidelio X1 is 60 euro's more than the DT990 Pro 250 in my country, would you say they're worth that much more than the DT990's?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> The Fidelio X1 is 60 euro's more than the DT990 Pro 250 in my country, would you say they're worth that much more than the DT990's?


 
   
  I would, as I really prefer the X1s sig and balance.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mackem said:


> I would like to go down the headphone plus microphone route but I just hit a lot of bumps along the way. For example,* I game / listen to music mostly on a night so I can't have open headphones...*


 
   
  Why can't you use open headphones at night?  Is someone sleeping right next to you when you play?
   
  Quote: 





waatttt said:


> Hi, I'm very new to this forum and I rarely post on forums in general but I like the way this community looks and it seems like there are many informed members so I wanted to ask a couple things. I'm in the market for a new gaming headset. I'm looking for a budget headset for PC maybe up to 120$ or so.
> 
> I would like to find a well rounded headset with a nice build quality but also nice sound quality that's strong in the fun and competitive catagories such as the Skullcandy Slyr that was reviewed or the Creative Aurvana Live.
> 
> Also I see Mad Lust Envy is very active here, thank you for posting the guide. I've looked through the list many times and I hope you continue to add more headsets soon.


 
   
  Your just not going to find _amazing _sound and build quality from a ~$100 gaming headset.  If you could, we would all be using them. 
   
_In general _"gaming headsets" will have inferior sound quality and build quality to "audiophile" headphones.  Most gaming headsets are closed back and most usually have a mediocre soundstage.  That's why you don't see that many "gaming headset" reviews on the front page.  If sound and build quality is a priority, you will want to use headphones + a mic (such as the antlion modmic).
   
   
  I predict that MLE won't really be _personally buying_ any more budget gaming headsets, as it would be redundant to own them since headphones like the Fidelio X1 will destroy them in sound quality.  If he's sent a pair he'll be happy to review them though.


----------



## Mackem

chicolom said:


> Why can't you use open headphones at night?  Is someone sleeping right next to you when you play?
> 
> 
> Your just not going to find _amazing_ sound and build quality from a ~$100 gaming headset.  If you could, we would all be using them.
> ...




I have a roommate, so yes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you're absolutely blasting your headphones, I don't see how even open headphones can be so problematic. The X1 even loudly is but a minor background noise. Not something truly problematic unless absolute silenece is a must. Hell, my fan is louder than most open headphones.

I'm nearly done with my X1 review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

*Philips Fidelio X1*



Sells for $250-$300



Spoiler: Review



The Philips Fidelio X1. The flagship headphone in the Fidelio line, and quite possibly the final headphone made by Philips. If it is indeed the final headphone before Funai takes over, Philips sure went out with a bang.



*Build Quality*: The X1 is a physical masterpiece in almost every way. Elegant and sleek design paired with a well machined construction puts headphones costing thrice as much to shame. The Fidelio X1 is easily the best looking full sized headphone I have ever laid eyes upon, with no tradeoffs in actual quality. Even the plastic used on the headphone doesn't feel like plastic, but something more akin to ceramic.

The cups are made of said plastic, with a wonderful feel of solidity, which connects to one another via two wires (like the AKG K70x line) encased in metal and strong leather. The open-backed design of the cups are protected via a beautiful mesh pattern/grill, possibly the prettiest of all headphones I've seen. It is tightly knit, which doesn't seem as open as something like the HD650's outer grill, yet it is still undoubtedly and utterly open. The left cup has a 3.5mm input for the audio cable, which makes it convenient, and easy to remove/replace/swap cables. As with all 3.5mm inputs, you'll want to be very careful when attaching/removing the cables.

The headband is a suspension type (again, like the AKG K70x line), which is very soft, and generously padded. It is quite large, covering a lot of head space wherever it rests. Ultimately, it is incredibly comfortable, though it is a bit problematic for larger heads, which I'll explain later.

Next, we have the ear pads. The pads are made of memory foam, covered in velour. This makes them incredibly soft and a bit more breatheable in comparison to leather/pleather pads. It isn't as dense as the K702 65th Anniversary pads, so it doesn't retain quite the same amount of memory foam properties. This makes them seal a little less through the pads, but doesn't trap as much heat as the AKG memory foam pads. They are quite thick, so those sensitive to ears being pressed against the driver enclosures shouldn't have an issue with the X1's pads.

On to the cable. The cable is quite possibly... scratch that, it IS the most beautiful stock cable I have ever seen on any headphone. It's long, cloth covered, thick, and soft/bendable without retaining cable memory. It terminates into a very nice 6.3mm (1/4") jack. As amazing as it looks... you will want to swap it for another cable, which I'll explain later.



*Comfort*: To put things as simple as possible, the Fidelio X1 is one of the most comfortable full-sized headphones you will ever wear. While it isn't the lightest headphone, it certainly isn't the heaviest, and whatever weight the X1 has is expertly spread around by the suspended headband, so it feels lighter than it really is.

The huge cups and pads allow the ears to fit inside comfortably, and the soft and airy velour padding keeps heat from building up compared to leather/pleather pads. No stickyness, and less heat is always a good thing in my book. The X1 could still stand to have more extension to allow bigger heads to fit with zero issues, as even with the post bending mod, the lack of extension will make the X1 press the headband down to your head. It's mostly harmless as the headband is so big and well padded, but it is worth noting.



*Design Issues*: One of the biggest issues on the X1 (and there are only two real issues), is that the ear pads aren't removable. This makes it quite problematic to clean or replace. It is held in by four screw-like protrusions, and a strong adhesive. This makes it a quite a commitment to remove and place back on. Considering the masterful design of the X1, the ear pad assembly comes off as archaic and incredibly cumbersome. You may have to contact Philips for a replacement (possibly for a price) once the pads start wearing out. Problem there being that Philips quite possiby won't be in the headphone business soon, so there may not be a legitimate method of replacing the pads. You will definitely want to baby the pads, and try to keep them as clean as possible at all times. Some tape to remove particles/dust/etc, and not using the X1 when you're dirty.

The second (though less problematic) issue, is that the stock cable (as amazing as it looks and feels) has a very high resistance (around 1.8ohm). That is unnaturally high for an audio cable, and it does cause a negative effect to the sound quality. Compared to audio cables with a typical resistance of around 0.5ohm, the stock cable makes the sound slightly congested, and slightly undetailed, which makes instruments sound a little hazy and blended into the background. Replacing the cable will immediately tighten up the bass, and better define instruments, and other sound effects clearly in comparison. The difference isn't vast, but it is there, and can be noticeable with the right material. Replacing the cable isn't costly, and you can replace it with something equally sturdy such as the Mediabridge audio cables sold on Amazon for $10 or less for an immediate improvement. The only positive aspect of the stock cable's sound is that it's warmer, and less fatiguing, due to the softer, less defined sound.

The third issue with the X1 is that the headband simply isn't made for larger heads. The space between the suspended headband padding and the leather covered top that connects the cups is quite small, and once you put the headphone on, the suspended headbasnd will crash into the top piece, not allowing clearance for larger heads. There is a simple solution to this, and that is to bend the top piece into more of a cone shape, to allow more clearance. There is a lot of wasted horizontal space by default so bending the headband allows this unused space to be occupied by the suspended headband if needed. The top band is all metal and leather, and won't break, so there shouldn't be any worry about damaging the headphone with this mod.



*Accessories*: The X1 comes with a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter (1/4" to 1/8"). As with all 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapters, I would advise on NOT using it, and instead getting a Grado adapter cable or something like it, as these typical adapters can put some strain on 3.5mm inputs. The X1 also come with the audio cable and a clip attached near the 6.3mm plug which can help control the length if need be.



*Isolation/Leakage*: As an open backed headphone, you can't expect much isolation/noise control. However, I don't find them to leak as badly as other open backed headphones, so with moderate volumes, you can get by without bothering too many others. Even so, don't plan on using these to great effect if you need to control leak or keep external noises from seeping in.



*Sound*: The Fidelio comes out swinging. My first thought when I heard the X1 was something like "This is exactly what I have always wanted out of an open backed, bassy headphone." The X1 has an open, spacious, lively, energetic, yet controlled sound. It is tonally on the warm side due to the bass, but verges on neutral. The treble gives the X1 a nice amount of energy despite most of the treble actuallyu being on the smooth side. The X1 to me is at odds with itself. Not in a bad way, mind you. By odds, I mean that it doesn't know if it wants to be a basshead headphone, or an audiophile headphone. Both? That sounds about right. A basshead/audiophile headphone. Let's get into the specifics...



*Bass*: The X1 is a rare breed of headphone, particularly in it's bass. There are very, very few headphones that can be this open, yet retain so much energy in it's bass which more closely resembles something coming out of a sealed design. It has a lot of growl and punch, but not overly so like most bass heavy, closed headphones. Open-backed headphones tend to roll off in the bass quite quickly, losing energy, impact, and are too quick to decay. The X1 is among the elite few dynamic headphones which does away with that stereotype. Other dynamics with potent bass would be the Sennheiser HD650 and Beyerdynamic DT990, and neither reach as low as the X1, nor fill up the virtual space in the same way. The X1 has a broader range in bass than the 650 or DT990, and fits somewhere between in decay and speed. The 650 is more neutral in it's bass, while the 990 is a bit stronger in the mid bass, but rolls off faster, not allowing it to reach the lower depths as well as the X1. Ultimately, the X1's bass is more fleshed out than the other two.

That being said, the bass can at times come off a bit undetailed and lacking in texture and layering. Perhaps even one-note-ish. To me, the X1's bass sounds like it was pre-boosted from a neutral headphone, and it sounds as if Philips pushed the X1's driver to it's limit in the bass, and adding any more would probably strain the drivers causing them to distort badly. This is just an assumption though, and overall, the presentation of bass on the X1 is among my favorites on any headphone. Just note that I feel that it can stand to be more textured, refined, and overall improved upon.



*Mids*: The mids on the X1 are pleasantly intact, despite the X1's bass heavy nature. The mids are actually quite linear and neutral in tone, with no crazy drops or rises all the way up to the treble. It's neither forward nor truly recessed, staying in place at all times, only slightly trailing behind the abundant level of bass. The mids are neither weak nor special. They are happy to be present in the mix at all times, only slightly getting masked by the bass at times. Such is the nature of virtually all bass heavy headphones, and the X1 is among the best ones at keeping the mids intact. Due to the open and spacious sound of the X1, the mids are never intimate, nor are they thick or organic like the HD650, LCD-2, and K702/65. In the end, you can say the mids are good in that they are detailed, but not special. They are definitely more upfront than the DT990, which was something I personally wanted out of a DT990 successor (which is how I see the X1). 



*Treble*: The treble on the X1 is generally smooth, with slight peak at 10khz, which adds a nice amount of sparkle and energy, keeping the X1 from sounding completely warm or smoothike the HD650, LCD-2, and K702/65. The treble is well in line with the mids other than the slight peak at 10khz, and massive drop off after 10khz. Said drop off keeps the X1 from being sibilant or fatiguing overall, but it does gloss over quite a bit of treble detail.

Overall, the drop off in treble after 10khz isn't problematic, as the X1 still exudes plenty of air and energy, but it is worth noting. Also, the rise at 10khz can rear it's head with certain material and can be a little tizzy at times, keeping the X1 from being completely fatigue free. Overall, it's a minor gripe, and I feel it to be a very small, necessary evil to allow the X1 to sound as open and lively as it is. Surely, nowhere near as problematic as the treble happy DT990 and HE-400.



*Soundstage*: The X1 has a large soundstage somewhat similar to the DT990. Plenty of space between instruments and positional cues, with great imaging. A soundstage this good just isn't normal with bassy headphones, making the X1 even more special. The instruments and positional cues don't take up as much space as something like the K702/65, giving a larger sense of virtual space, even if it doesn't reach as far out.



*Positioning*: Great positional cues tend to accompany open headphones with large soundstages, and the X1 surely does not disappoint. Among the best in positional cue clarity, with a pretty good sense of height (something I don't normally notice in headphones), front and side cues, and very good rear positional cues. For a bass oriented headphone, the X1 will be among the best all rounders, especially if positional accuracy is a must.



*Clarity*: Due to the very (VERY) linear frequency response after the bass, the Fidelio X1 is among the clearest sounding headphones, especially for gaming. The mids are so dead even with the treble overall, that nothing is truly lost. The only problem in clarity is that due to the potent bass, some details can be hidden behind each bass impact, though for an all rounder with bass heaviness, there just won't be much better than the X1 in clarity. It really is that good.



*Amping*: With popular headphones come the inevitable influx of people recommending they be amped by powerful amps to get the best out of them. I have heard this with basically EVERY SINGLE headphone that is worth their grain in salt. I'll be a little more realistic in saying that the X1 is quite easy to drive and doesn't scale up enough to warrant a potent/pricey amplifier for them. I believe a very good portable amp would be enough for them, and anything else is more for tweaking the flavor and sound signature, and not because the X1 needs a certain amount of power. So again, I say, the X1 can do very well with a good portable amp or decent desktop amp, and still sounds fantastic with very little to no amping. The X1 is quite sensitive, and I feel that for console gaming, the Mixamp alone is enough.



*Value*: The X1 is now consistently hovering between $250 and $275, and at that price, it is an ABSOLUTE must have. You get a lot of performance, and very few drawbacks. Those who want a linear headphone with bump in bass need look no further. You get one hell of a headphone for so little money.



*Comparisons*: X1 vs. K702/65. The most popular comparison asked for me to do is between the X1 and the K702/65 (Annies). The comparison is not exactly valid, as it is comparing apples to oranges. The Annie is more balanced, more organic, warmer, thicker, and more fluid. It is less fatiguing and more polite. The X1 is more lively, energetic, and more bassy, with thinner sounding instruments, but a bigger sense of space. I love them both almost equally, with an edge going to the X1 simply due to it having the sound signature I have always wanted out of a potential successor to the DT990 (which has been a long time fave of mine). If I were to honestly gauge the sound quality and refinement, I'd say the Annie is a superior headphone overall, with it's more realistic/natural tone, and more perceived audio fidelity, in my opinion. There is a place for both of them, as they cover basically all aspects of sound/genres very well between the two.

X1 Vs. DT990. If there was ever anything I wanted out of the DT990 to make them ideal for my personal taste, is that I wished they would have considerably less treble, more mids, and retain the same amount of bass and soundstage. The X1 is almost exactly what I have wanted for years when I asked for an improved DT990. They don't sound the same (obviously), but it's the closest thing to my vision of an improved and evolved DT990. Because of this, you can say the X1 has made the DT990 obsolete. The only people who should look into the DT990 over the X1 is those who can't afford the $250 or so dollars for the X1, and even then, the DT990 Pro is the only version that is noticeably cheaper. All of the 990s require quite a bit more amping than the X1, so in the end, you'd end up spending more for the 990 just to make them sound up to par with the X1, even when the X1 is unamped. That still doesn't get you past the edgy and polarizing treble.



*Final Impressions:* With the X1, you get a very beautiful, comfortable, affordable (by audiophile standards), open, velour padded, easy to drive, bassy, energetic, linear headphone. That is a hell of a lot of boxes ticked for a headphone in this price range, and trust me, it's all true.

There are a few caveats: essentially non-replaceable pads, mediocre stock cable, metal bending mod necessary for larger heads. Also, bass could stand to be more refined, mids aren't exactly highlighted, treble detail gets glossed over past a certain point, and slight (very slight) fatigue at times.

Despite those few caveats, the X1 is well worth their price and then some. For those who have been on the hunt for an open, bassy can, with comfy velour (like I have), your journey is over. Get the X1 as soon as possible. It isn't perfect, and depending on what you want out of a headphone, the X1 may not be suited for you (those looking for stellar mids need not apply), but considering their price and domestically appealing sound signature, the X1 is a clear winner in my book.

Final Scores...



Fun: 9 (Amazing)

Competitive: 8.25 (Great. If the bass were a little tighter and more refined, the X1 could've been a 9 in competitive, though it may have reduced the fun factor)

Comfort: 9 (Amazing)


----------



## kenshinhimura

the x1 brings the 1/4" to 1/8" adapter. great review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh snap, I completely forgot! XD

Thanks kenshin, I'll fix it right away. I have 8 billion of those things...


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## kenshinhimura

no problem. i just happened to be starting right at mine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fixed. I advise everyone to NOT use those adapters, as they can put a lot of strain to 3.5mm inputs.

Guys, let me know of any other problems with the review of if I need to expand on some things. I'm going on little sleep AND I have to go to work soon. Tonight won't end well. Lol.


----------



## ethan7000

Having just picked up the X1's to compare to the DT 990 Pro 250, I'll just add my two cents to MLE's excellent review.  I have to admit, I was skeptical of the X1's, having recently bought the 990's and being quite impressed by them.  But the X1's truly do surpass the 990's in every way.  They sound better, are more comfortable (by far in my opinion) and are the best looking headphones I have ever seen.  I thought that the 990's did bass well for open headphones, but my goodness do the X1's do it better.  It's amazing that you can raise the sub bass and actually feel something there - and I mean in the 30Hz range.  This is probably due in part to the 50mm drivers as compared to the 45mm drivers on the 990.  The treble is definitely not as harsh as the 990's, but still present and wonderful.  As far as gaming goes, explosions finally sound the way I've been wishing they would.  If you have the original DSS, turn Dolby Headphone on, add a hint of the bass enhancer, and you'll be in gaming heaven.  I paid $100 more for the X1's than I did for the 990's, and they are more than worth the premium.  I don't feel like I ever need to look for something else.  I think MLE gave the 990 Pro's a 9/8/8.  I've only listened to music and gamed with the X1's for about 6 hours so far, but in comparison to that, I would give the X1's a 9.5/8/9.5 - couldn't be happier.


----------



## chicolom

Great review MLE!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> I thought that the 990's did bass well for open headphones, but my goodness do the X1's do it better.
> This is probably due in part to the 50mm drivers as compared to the 45mm drivers on the 990.


 
   
  I doubt the actual driver diameter has too much to do with it.  AD700's have 53mm drivers and their bass is pathetic (no offense AD700).


----------



## ethan7000

Ya, could be a number of factors


----------



## modulor

Excellent review - very thorough and well articulated MLE!  One of these days I'll get to try the X1 out...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There are quite a few things I messed up in. I'll fix it tomorrow.

Thanks guys. Chico, totally stole your image. For the horde!


----------



## liquiflux

I just got some HD 598s and so far they are great for everything I want them to do. They are a neutral headphone but leave a lot of room to equalize to the sound you like. They're great for music, too.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Here, I don't think this is necessarily equivalent to a "best case scenario," but here's a video sample so you'll just hear the difference:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8&sns=em
> 
> Here's a sample with SBX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuck0NrXV0&sns=em


 
   In the Battlefield video and the Mirrors Edge videos CMSS3D by far sounded the best with the HD598s and SR850s. Even the Dolby just didn't seem to provide as much positional accuracy to me, but that might also have to do with the brighter treble on CMSS3D.


----------



## Evshrug

*MLE,*
Just gotta say, great review, and way to really sell the idea of ultimate headphone again. I don't know how you manage to make each new headphone sound revolutionary, but you do, even if they have a few flaws you point out. You know I love the Q701s... and I've been enjoying the easy connectivity of my M-100s... Your Fidellio X1 review makes the new headphones sound like the best of everything.

You could be the Billy Mays or Steve Jobs of Headphones, you sell their benefits pretty convincingly.
​


liquiflux said:


> I just got some HD 598s and so far they are great for everything I want them to do. They are a neutral headphone but leave a lot of room to equalize to the sound you like. They're great for music, too.
> 
> In the Battlefield video and the Mirrors Edge videos CMSS3D by far sounded the best with the HD598s and SR850s. Even the Dolby just didn't seem to provide as much positional accuracy to me, but that might also have to do with the brighter treble on CMSS3D.



I know what you mean, but the guy who posted that video seems to go out of his way to use pretty extreme settings on everything but CMSS-3D... Did you watch any of the videos posted by Fegefeuer after my post? Those are much nicer, though expect a real card to sound even better during gaming, than in a YouTube sample.

Don't get me wrong, CMSS-3D is great for positional accuracy when configured well, but don't knock the other DSPs yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's pretty easy to make every new review sound like the headphones are completely worthwhile, when they really are. Also helps that practically all of my recent reviews have been of some truly stellar headphones, like the SR407, LCD2, Annies, etc.

You best believe, if I dont like something, you'll know... *cough*A50*cough*...


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's pretty easy to make every new review sound like the headphones are completely worthwhile, when they really are. Also helps that practically all of my recent reviews have been of some truly stellar headphones, like the SR407, LCD2, Annies, etc.
> 
> You best believe, if I dont like something, you'll know... *cough*A50*cough*...


 
  How did the the SR-407's imaging compare to that of the Q 701 for gaming? I just ordered a new SRS-2170 (amp + earspeakers) from Japan for $590 USD and I'm eager to try it out for gaming in comparison to my 8-bump headband K 701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SR407 is like a Q701 on steroids, but the AKGs still have better soundstage and better positional cues. Still, the SR407 sounds so effortless, it still makes for an incredible gaming can.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The SR407 is like a Q701 on steroids, but the AKGs still have better soundstage and better positional cues. Still, the SR407 sounds so effortless, it still makes for an incredible gaming can.


 
  Ah okay. Good to know! I'm stoked to hear how it sounds for gaming.


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## Mad Lust Envy

The SR407 will be incredibly agile, and brighter than the Q701. The mids won't be as forward, but everything sounds incredibly clean.


----------



## liquiflux

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I know what you mean, but the guy who posted that video seems to go out of his way to use pretty extreme settings on everything but CMSS-3D... Did you watch any of the videos posted by Fegefeuer after my post? Those are much nicer, though expect a real card to sound even better during gaming, than in a YouTube sample.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, CMSS-3D is great for positional accuracy when configured well, but don't knock the other DSPs yet.


 
  I have a TiHD, so that may contribute to my bias, but I'll have to try some others. I do agree it can sound a bit unnatural at times. I'll have to experiment to see if there are more natural sounding options, especially for non-competitive games and movies.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> *Philips Fidelio X1*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Very nice review. The X1 is the type of headphone I could convince a non-audiophile to drop that kind of money on just based on how nice it looks.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The SR407 will be incredibly agile, and brighter than the Q701. The mids won't be as forward, but everything sounds incredibly clean.


 
  Ah okay. I'm getting the SR-207 instead of the 407. People in the STAX thread say the 407 is indeed a bit brighter than the 207.
   
  Bah stupid STAX and their naming...all the current Lambda earspeakers use the same driver, just the pads, headband, and cable are different.


----------



## Mackem

mad lust envy said:


> *Philips Fidelio X1*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




These look awesome but the hard to replace pads is a bit of a bummer and the fact that they're £269.20 here is an absolute joke (Equivalent to $410)


----------



## benbenkr

The sad thing is that the X1 is practically almost unknown in Asia... very hard to get it around where I live other than to suck it up, pay the customs tax and order from Amazon.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





liquiflux said:


> Very nice review. The X1 is the type of headphone I could convince a non-audiophile to drop that kind of money on just based on how nice it looks.


 
  Exactly that, plus they look (and I imagine are) very comfortable.  From the way it sounds in all the reviews I've seen, they seems to have one of the most well presented 'consumer friendly' type sound signatures available, very fun and engaging on top of the many other things they do right.  It's really a shame that the pads aren't easily swapped out...


----------



## dakanao

I don't think the X1 will be good for me for music, as I like a thick, lush, organic and intimate sound signature. But they'll be good for gaming however.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like you want an HD650 instead.


----------



## Mackem

I think the HD558s are ideal for gaming as many mentioned but not sure about the bass levels. I've come to appreciate IEMs and such with less bass but I listened to a pair of AD700s and there was just nothing. The 558s look amazing in terms of comfort which is what initially drew me to them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mackem said:


> I think the HD558s are ideal for gaming as many mentioned but not sure about the bass levels. I've come to appreciate IEMs and such with less bass but I listened to a pair of AD700s and there was just nothing. The 558s look amazing in terms of comfort which is what initially drew me to them.


 
  The HD558s do have more bass then the ATH-AD700s
  (but then again everything has more bass then the ATH-AD700)
  I would say the HD558s have "just enough" bass, to be able to say the HD558 has "decent ok bass".
  I could not say the HD558 has any outstanding features, but I think they make a good "Jack of all Traits".
  (I removed the Black Rubber Tape from inside the cups)
   
  Also that you can get used HD558s for just over $100 is a plus.
   
  The "Grado Mini Adapter cable" sells for around $15 and give the HD5XXX series a flexable 6 inch 1/4" to 1/8" adapter.


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like you want an HD650 instead.


 
  How is their treble and bass?
  Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> The HD558s do have more bass then the ATH-AD700s
> (but then again everything has more bass then the ATH-AD700)
> I would say the HD558s have "just enough" bass, to be able to say the HD558 has "decent ok bass".
> I could not say the HD558 has any outstanding features, but I think they make a good "Jack of all Traits".
> ...


 
  I've tried the HD558 unamped with my mp4 player, and my AKG K540 destroys them in every single category except soundstage and imaging.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> How is their treble and bass?


 
  They have laid-back treble, but a strong bass. The focus is on the very, _very_ smooth mids, though.


----------



## miceblue

Hm, this is an interesting read:
  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-impressions-dts-headphonex


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Hm, this is an interesting read:
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/first-impressions-dts-headphonex


 
  I don't know why, but I feel this link is familiar...


----------



## Newschool

Can anyone help me maybe decide between the He-400 and AKG K702 Annie? Also, is the He-500 much of an upgrade over the He-400?


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





newschool said:


> Can anyone help me maybe decide between the He-400 and AKG K702 Annie? Also, is the He-500 much of an upgrade over the He-400?


 
  I've not heard an Annie yet, only the Q701/K702 but I've owned the HiFiMans... I'll see if I can help a bit.  Your choice should depend on a few basic factors.  First being comfort - the Annie is going to be the lightest and most comfortable, while the HiFiMans will be noticeably heavier.  If weight is any concern, the Annie will win there.  Next, sound signature - the HE-400 is going to be the most 'fun' sounding and least neutral of the three...much more sparkle at the top and weightier bass, but you may miss a little in the midrange.  The Annie and HE-500 are going to be more neutral overall, but the HE-500 will still share that signature planar bass the HE-400 has, just a more neutral variety.  Then, consider amping needs - The HE-500 will be the most amp dependent, and require a good bit of power (absolute minimum 1W output power), whereas the Annie and HE-400 will be easier to drive, and could be usable right out of a good soundcard theoretically.  I'd still recommend at least a Fiio, Schiit Magni or O2 for those, or a receiver if you already have one.  As far as overall sound goes, they're all going to sound really good and each will have it's own strengths and weaknesses.  I feel they are all more of a 'side-grade' of each other, but I'd place the most value on the HE-500 personally.  Again, I've not heard the Annie and I'm going off my experience with the other AKGs I've heard plus what I've read of the Annie.


----------



## Newschool

Quote: 





modulor said:


> I've not heard an Annie yet, only the Q701/K702 but I've owned the HiFiMans... I'll see if I can help a bit.  Your choice should depend on a few basic factors.  First being comfort - the Annie is going to be the lightest and most comfortable, while the HiFiMans will be noticeably heavier.  If weight is any concern, the Annie will win there.  Next, sound signature - the HE-400 is going to be the most 'fun' sounding and least neutral of the three...much more sparkle at the top and weightier bass, but you may miss a little in the midrange.  The Annie and HE-500 are going to be more neutral overall, but the HE-500 will still share that signature planar bass the HE-400 has, just a more neutral variety.  Then, consider amping needs - The HE-500 will be the most amp dependent, and require a good bit of power (absolute minimum 1W output power), whereas the Annie and HE-400 will be easier to drive, and could be usable right out of a good soundcard theoretically.  I'd still recommend at least a Fiio, Schiit Magni or O2 for those, or a receiver if you already have one.  As far as overall sound goes, they're all going to sound really good and each will have it's own strengths and weaknesses.  I feel they are all more of a 'side-grade' of each other, but I'd place the most value on the HE-500 personally.  Again, I've not heard the Annie and I'm going off my experience with the other AKGs I've heard plus what I've read of the Annie.


 
  Thanks for the reply, I've mostly been looking at the He-400 (planar magnetic is very tempting) but was wondering if the He-500 would give an overall BETTER sound (clearer, more detailed, soundstage etc.) than the He-400. If so, would it be worth it to buy the He-500 and wait to save up some money for a dedicated amp like the Schiit Magni for it?


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





daleb said:


> They have laid-back treble, but a strong bass. The focus is on the very, _very_ smooth mids, though.


 
  How would they perform with rap/hiphop?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> How would they perform with rap/hiphop?


 

 Between the trio (K/Q701s, DT880s, and HD600s/650s), I believe the 650s would be the best at rap/hiphop. I wouldn't know exactly, though; I've only spent time with the HD600s, which are amazing. I don't listen to rap or hiphop, so I wouldn't know exactly. Bassy genres sound amazing on the HD600s.
  There are most likely better headphones out there for rap and hiphop at this price, so I'd look around. I've seen people recommending the HE-400s.


----------



## miceblue

I didn't like the HE-400 all that much due to the super tizzy treble.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





newschool said:


> Thanks for the reply, I've mostly been looking at the He-400 (planar magnetic is very tempting) but was wondering if the He-500 would give an overall BETTER sound (clearer, more detailed, soundstage etc.) than the He-400. If so, would it be worth it to buy the He-500 and wait to save up some money for a dedicated amp like the Schiit Magni for it?


 
  I think both are close in some regards, but the HE-500 is more refined overall and less fatiguing for long listening sessions.  The changes it brings to the table vs. the HE-400 are better overall for me, but the HE-400 is still an impressive and engaging listen for having a unique signature (sparkly highs, but very dark otherwise).  The soundstage seems a bit more spacious and airy on the HE-400 and may have a higher 'percieved' clarity because of the treble emphasis, but I feel because the HE-500 has a more neutral signature that you get more overall detail, and the soundstage is quite natural sounding.  Also, the treble of the HE-400 (and bass at times) can become quite fatiguing unless you're coming from something like a Grado, so I found the HE-500 to be perfect treble-wise.  I imagine this would also be the case for the Annie.  IMO, the HE-400 did most music and gaming very well (some FPS were a bit piercing at times), but the HE-500 is the better all-arounder.  The HE-400's signature could be adjusted some EQ (it takes to that quite well) but many also prefer it without.  Basically what I'm getting at is some will prefer over the other, so it's hard to say until you hear them - I was content with the HE-400 until I got to demo the HE-500.  Also, don't discount the Annies just yet, and also consider the Philips Fidelio X1 - MLE posted his review of them a few posts back with some comparisons.


----------



## Change is Good

What's up guys! Its been a little while since I last engaged in this thread. I have really been happy with the Annie/Mad Dog combo at home so I haven't needed many suggestions as of late. I finally finished my portable rig and am almost near end game, for me. I am still searching for a portable can, though, to have something easier to remove from my head than an IEM when someone is trying to get my attention. So, I might end up trying the MDR-1 for that purpose. I really wish the MD was more portable because then this would not be an issue at all.
   
  Evs, I see you just purchased the M100. I think it may be too bassy and recessed in the mids for my taste for me, though. Congrats as I hear that is a lovely piece to have, nonetheless.
   
  I was also thinking about repurchasing the X1 to compliment the Annie, but then I'll just be having too many headphones with not enough ears... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. If the price keeps going down I may not have a choice... because they are too good to pass up for a bargain. It really does have its own distinct sound that no other headphone has... and I kind of miss it lol.
   
  I will be trying out the MDR-1R, first, to see if it fits my need for portability and sound. The X1 will be more of a beneficial can to have around... when the time comes.
   
  Edit: And MLE, great review on the X1!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I listened to the Skullcandy Hesh 2 at the mall.... and I liked it! :eek:

For less than $40. Bass and treble oriented, and I thought the bass was *awesome*. Haterz gon hate!

Definitely better to me than the horrible, horrible, XB500.


----------



## Change is Good

I saw them in a Sprint store last week and thought about trying them... but was like "nahhhh" lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though I've migrated to higher end cans, I still very much appreciate budget headphones, especially if they are enjoyable. The Hesh 2 is definitely flawed, but I found it quite fun while listening to Trap off my phone.


----------



## Change is Good

I know this may be a dumb question... but can we post video games for sale in the classifieds? And if so, which section?


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I know this may be a dumb question... but can we post video games for sale in the classifieds? And if so, which section?


 
  I'd guess under Music/Videos...go check it out and see if anyone is doing the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont think so, but you might get away with selling consoles in the source section. I'm trying to sell my 3DS XL for $150. I never use it, other than when I played Fire Emblem...


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





mackem said:


> I think the HD558s are ideal for gaming as many mentioned but not sure about the bass levels. I've come to appreciate IEMs and such with less bass but I listened to a pair of AD700s and there was just nothing. The 558s look amazing in terms of comfort which is what initially drew me to them.


 
   
  I own a HD558 and it's one of my main headphones for gaming. Certainly, they're not anywhere close to even be called bassy but I feel that they're pretty alright.
   
  Coupled with the fact that I run it with a DSS on the PS3 and a soundcard on the PC, I always add a little bit to the bass and everything just seems to feel right. As a bonus, the HD558s also respond pretty well to EQing so if that's your thing, go with it!
  I think the best thing about the HD558s are its comfort although I know many people do not like the Sennheiser clamp. I have a small head, so it's fine for me however. I just wish the earpads are as plush as the HD598 though.
   
  Competitive wise (I don't play FPS anymore, they're silly), playing Dota 2 and SC2 on such a headphone that does everything right but not exceptional, is I think a plus mentally. At least I don't have to be blaming my cans for anything and just concentrate on playing the game. That's what I like about the HD558, does everything well but not exceptional and does nothing really that bad.
   
  It is a very well balanced headphone.
   
  On single-player only driven games though, I'd honestly take the HE-400 or X1 over the HD558 of course.


----------



## Mackem

I love the look of the X1s but they're expensive here and the non-replacement earpads are a deal breaker.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Evs, I see you just purchased the M100. I think it may be too bassy and recessed in the mids for my taste for me, though. Congrats as I hear that is a lovely piece to have, nonetheless.
> ...
> I will be trying out the MDR-1R, first, to see if it fits my need for portability and sound. The X1 will be more of a beneficial can to have around... when the time comes.



The M-100 doesn't have nearly the recessed mids of the HE-400... That alone made the HE-400 genre-specific for me, but I have yet to feel such a concern with the M-100. I don't know how well you know me and my listening history, but I'm a self-professed non-basshead, and I feel the M-100 is pleasantly warm without overdoing it. I know you didn't ask about the treble, but for the sake of completeness, the treble is NOT lifted much more than the mids, compared to my older headphones the M-100 is slightly dark, but the treble actually has good extension and somehow good instrument separation and decent soundstage. I have to be a little more careful when amping than with the better-damped Q701, but unamped the M-100 easily sounds more lively and dynamic than a Q701 plugged into my iPad or even E12. Finally, it is a pretty piece of industrial design, the matte-black earcups keep it design-quiet but upon close inspection it oozes quality. I don't think anyone with a pair of Beats would say I cheaped out, in fact I've had people in my mall ask what they are.

The M-100 satisfies for me perfectly the need you described for a portable easier to remove when someone wants to talk. The downside is, at least in my case, they pin back the edge of my ears, and after an hour it feels like the main part of my ear touches the driver enclosure unless I readjust positioning (or take a 2 minute break), so at home it's nice to have a marathon comfort headphone. That said, I may be getting used to it... I saw Transformers: DSotM two nights ago, initially I started with my Q701's but I switched to the M-100 for the sound signature, and though I felt the movie was 30 or 45 minutes too long, I was happy using my M-100 as long as I changed position every once in a while.

I don't know anything about the MDR-1, not even how they look, except that they're supposed to be very comfortable. I'm a little curious to know how they sound, but so far FWIR they don't have that "something special" the M-100 has.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I will be trying out the MDR-1R, first, to see if it fits my need for portability and sound. The X1 will be more of a beneficial can to have around... when the time comes.


 
  I had the MDR-1R for only a short period when it came out. The comfort and the look is awesome, but they sounded kinda meh or uninspired to me. No competition for the likes of HD 650 or my Ultrasone Signature DJ. You might be disappointed.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dont think so, but you might get away with selling consoles in the source section. I'm trying to sell my 3DS XL for $150. I never use it, other than when I played Fire Emblem...


 
   
  I figured you would have kept it to play Shin Megami Tensei IV, at the very least...
   
  I'd jump on the offer myself, but between the TM HOTAS Warthog and this bloody Steam sale, $150's too much for me right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just in case anyone is wondering, I put it up for sale at $160 to cover shipping.


----------



## NikolasKaefig

Hey everyone. I just read about this easy to do mod for the DT 990's: http://www.head-fi.org/t/663323/beyerdynamic-dt990-pro-mod-i-came-up-with Sounds like this could improve the competetive gaming angle of these cans. Is any DT 990 owner willing to try this and post results? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That can't possibly be good for the treble. Mods come and go, but when they first come, people are always quick to say it does nothing to affect the sound negatively. With dynamic cans, if you take away something, something elsewhere is added. Likewise, if you add something, something else gets taken away. No such thing as a free boost.


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> I'd jump on the offer myself, but between the TM HOTAS Warthog and this bloody Steam sale, $150's too much for me right now.


 

 I've heard good things about the HOTAS, even with Mechwarrior Online (which doesn't play with joysticks very well). Be sure to let us all know whether it was worth it. Sorry about your wallet!


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I've heard good things about the HOTAS, even with Mechwarrior Online (which doesn't play with joysticks very well). Be sure to let us all know whether it was worth it. Sorry about your wallet!


 
  This is how you know you're on head-fi.
  As a side note, I just watched 4 episodes of TriGun last night.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im on like episode 18 of Trigun. Never seen the series, but I'm slowly getting through it... 

What a coincidence.


----------



## autoteleology

I have a 2013 Astro Mixamp for sale, virtually like new, all cables and packaging included (minus the quick start sheet that is available online anyways).
   
  If anyone is interested in buying, shoot a PM my way and I'll hook you up. I don't want to sell it on eBay because I'll get ripped off ($20+) by fees.


----------



## kenshinhimura

trigun is awesome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a bit too old school for me (lack of detail and animation), but Vash is a memorable character and really pushes the series through. I can't wait to get to the movie. Considering the movie is only a few years old, I expect a huge boost in quality.


----------



## Change is Good

Question: So there is no way to get surround sound into my headphones from the PS Vita? If not, that kind of sucks....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the Vita doesn't output games in surround sound.

The PSP Corpse Party games are made with binaural audio, and so they are the only games I know of with virtual surround on the Vita.


----------



## Change is Good

I see, kind of lame isn't it? One would think it would have been on the top of their list when they started designing the thing.


----------



## autoteleology

Mad Lust Envy, have you heard of Razer Surround?
   
  I'm using it right now after having had the .exe for a while, and I dare say, I like this quite a lot better than the Mixamp. Being able to use my own amplifier and DAC, being able to customize the HTRF, and a built-in, switchable system-wide graphic equalizer also don't hurt.
   
http://www.razerzone.com/surround


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> Mad Lust Envy, have you heard of Razer Surround?
> 
> I'm using it right now after having had the .exe for a while, and I dare say, I like this quite a lot better than the Mixamp. Being able to use my own amplifier and DAC, being able to customize the HTRF, and a built-in, switchable system-wide graphic equalizer also don't hurt.
> 
> http://www.razerzone.com/surround




Yes, and I thought it was weak at best. After customizing, there is still no real sense of rear positional cues. All it has is good front cues. Without good rear positional cues, virtual surround is worthless to me.All rear cues were only as far back as the middle of my head.

It's free for a reason. Both DH and THX Tru Studio were significantly better for me.


----------



## daleb

I'm thinking about buying a U3. Don't know whether I should worry about it, though. Is there a way to get crossfade in games? That is my biggest problem with audio. Anything that is 100% panned in any direction is deadly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone NEVER has that problem. You're fine with the U3.

I'm looking forward to DTS headphone X. Turtle Beach is gonna be the first company using it, and I hope that means a DSS3 is on it's way, though it will probably be named something else, as the DSS = Dolby Surround System, IIRC. I'll be on it like white on rice.

I liked the demo, and it was very convincing, other than the high rear cues not sounding like it was behind, even though the regular rear cues were as good as anything I've heard.


----------



## miceblue

mad lust envy said:


> No, the Vita doesn't output games in surround sound.
> 
> The PSP Corpse Party games are made with binaural audio, and so they are the only games I know of with virtual surround on the Vita.




Binaural audio?? O_O
Must try nao...if only I had a PS Vita. No but seriously, binaural audio is cool stuff. I have a pair of binaural microphones myself.

Has anyone played Sanctum 2 on Steam? I bought it during the Steam sale and it's actually pretty dang fun. I usually don't like tower-defense games nor FPSs, but Sanctum 2 combines the two and I just find it plain awesome.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone NEVER has that problem. You're fine with the U3.


 
  I was trying to ask if there's a way to get crossfade through software before I go buy the U3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone crossfades by default. There is NEVER any hard panning when DH is on. That's like one of the things that sets DH apart. There is no sound effect that you won't hear on both ears. Like how your ears normally do.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone crossfades by default. There is NEVER any hard panning when DH is on. That's like one of the things that sets DH apart. There is no sound effect that you won't hear on both ears. Like how your ears normally do.


 

 No no no XD I'm trying to say using onboard audio, without buying anything. As in for free.


----------



## dakanao

I've been using Dolby Headphone for the past few days, and I must say, it definitely gives games a more spacious and enjoyable sound, and positional cues are better than regular stereo aswell, even though my K540's aren't well suited for gaming. Overall, I'm glad I bought the DSS, because I can feel it has a lot of potenial with other, more spacious sounding headphones. There are times in S&D games in MW2 were I was the last man standing, and I killed like 3 guys that were all around me because I sound whored them, and I know it would be harder doing that with regular stereo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, even though closed, small soundstage headphones aren't the best to demo DH with, it still can help immensely. i used DH with the RE0 iems for awhile, and I loved the combo. Despite the small soundstage, the positional cues were top notch, and I had zero trouble pinpointing enemies.


----------



## daleb

There isn't a point to me getting anything Dolby except for crossfade. I use the HD 280s, which don't have soundstage in their vocabulary. So is there a way to get crossfade without spending money? Or using razer which completely messes up your soundcard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, if it's only crossfade you want, aren't there like crossfade plug ins for software like Winamp? I'm sure. Dolby Headphone loses a bit of SQ if you don't want virtual surround.


----------



## autoteleology

I think he meant crossfeed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Same difference, lol.

Whatever means that you won't get hard panning, because you'll hear all manner of audio on both sides even if just a little. 

Hard left/right panning isn't good for anyone. 

This is one reason why I'll never be a stereo gamer. Ever. Other than when it's the only way to play.


----------



## Change is Good

Hey gamers, check this out...
   
http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-33935701-Gaming-Desk/dp/B0058O8EN8
   
  If I can find a way to rearrange things in my small place I am so jumpin on this. Too bad space is too cluttered where my small desk is, now, because this would be replacing it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like monitors to sit so high up because most monitors/screens have bad vertical viewing angles. They usually look better at or below eye level, not above. Can't wait for OLED monitors.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hey gamers, check this out...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-33935701-Gaming-Desk/dp/B0058O8EN8
> 
> If I can find a way to rearrange things in my small place I am so jumpin on this. Too bad space is too cluttered where my small desk is, now, because this would be replacing it.


 
   
  I've had that in my wish list for a while now. I use that to track things I want to buy eventually, not as a gift list for friends and family. But honestly, every time I go thorough my list and look at it I never end up buying it just because of how cheap it looks. I realize for about $100 I won't be getting amazing quality, but even the Ikea desks that aren't much more look better to me. Just my 2 cents.
   
  Granted, that desk does have a built in headphone rack, which could be nice for someone who only uses 1 set when they're on the computer. I'd need more than 1 since I use closed/open depending on ambient noise from the wife watching TV or something.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> I've been using Dolby Headphone for the past few days, and I must say, it definitely gives games a more spacious and enjoyable sound, and positional cues are better than regular stereo aswell, even though my K540's aren't well suited for gaming. Overall, I'm glad I bought the DSS, because I can feel it has a lot of potenial with other, more spacious sounding headphones. There are times in S&D games in MW2 were I was the last man standing, and I killed like 3 guys that were all around me because I sound whored them, and I know it would be harder doing that with regular stereo.


 
  Another happy convert! Welcome to the club


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I don't like monitors to sit so high up because most monitors/screens have bad vertical viewing angles. They usually look better at or below eye level, not above. Can't wait for OLED monitors.


 
   
  I recommend mounting monitors to help with viewing angles. We use the Dual LCD monitor mounting system in some of our offices, the desks where more than one monitor is needed. It helps out a lot getting the correct angles and height on a per person basis.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I no longer have a monitor since I'm using my laptop screen, but if i sell my ridiculously oversized plasma, I might get a 27" IPS or something, which isn't bad on viewing angles. Since my room is so dimly lit, glossy screens are what I like. Never been a fan of matte.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Oh, if it's only crossfade you want, aren't there like crossfade plug ins for software like Winamp? I'm sure. Dolby Headphone loses a bit of SQ if you don't want virtual surround.


 

 But I want it to run in games. Specifically Skyrim, right now. Of course I'd WANT virtual surround, but not unless its free.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can try that Razer surround program that is free, but I personally didn't care for it due to non-existent rear positional cues.


----------



## autoteleology

The Razer Surround program seems to work quite differently than the Mixamp when it comes to HTRF. I've found that I'm not actually sure whether or not I prefer it for gaming (it helps with positional cues but just sounds...off, in a way I can't describe) but for music, it works amazingly (unlike the Mixamp, which just sounds echo-y).
   
  I did notice that Razer Surround is lacking in rear positonal cues, but fortunately you can tune it to compensate a bit. Here's mine as of right now;
  

   
  Personally, I feel like Razer Surround works far better as a music DSP than an actual gaming assist tool as intended. It tends to make detail really pop because all of the different instruments that are panned differently are all placed very distinctly in the soundstage. It sounds very 3D, IMO, but YMMV. It also might help because I'm using Stax Lambdas, which have a very unique kind of soundstage.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You can try that Razer surround program that is free, but I personally didn't care for it due to non-existent rear positional cues.


 

 Ahahahaha
   
   
  Quote: 





> So is there a way to get crossfade without spending money? Or using razer which completely messes up your soundcard.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hey gamers, check this out...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-33935701-Gaming-Desk/dp/B0058O8EN8
> 
> If I can find a way to rearrange things in my small place I am so jumpin on this. Too bad space is too cluttered where my small desk is, now, because this would be replacing it.


 
   
  Don't. Seriously. Don't buy geeky furniture, buy classy, well built and well designed, something that makes your room worth living and not just (over)functional.


----------



## autoteleology

If it's so bad, surely you can contribute something better to the thread?


----------



## Fegefeuer

tus-chan said:


> If it's so bad, surely you can contribute something better to the thread?


 
   
  Playing thread police (and being bad at it) is the worst kind of contribution, my friend. 
   
  Without knowing budget, room layout, the rest of his furniture (which might need a replacemen as well?), (even a certain design preference) it's hard to give a recommendation. 
"Change is good" is intelligent enough, so please don't insult him by thinking he only relies on reduced, safe, generic "one day shipping" stuff that needs to recommended to him.


----------



## pietcux

This is the effect of the full moon guys. Calm down


----------



## Infekkted

Hi,
   
  I want to buy my first good headphone and after reading a lot I think the best headphone for me would be one that I could use for gaming, movies and music, like the DT 990. But I ended up with one doubt.
  My question is if the DT 990 PRO + Soud Blaster Z is enough for this headphone or I would also need to get an amp? If yes/optional, would Schiit Magni be a good choice?
  Or would be better to get the Z card and a cheaper headphone?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## davidsh

DT990 isn't a particularly balanced headphone?

Back to OT! Furniture-fi


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> If it's so bad, surely you can contribute something better to the thread?


 
  So I'm supposed to say that razer surround is good even though it messed up my soundcard? I don't think that's how it works.


----------



## ethan7000

infekkted said:


> Hi,
> 
> I want to buy my first good headphone and after reading a lot I think the best headphone for me would be one that I could use for gaming, movies and music, like the DT 990. But I ended up with one doubt.
> My question is if the DT 990 PRO + Soud Blaster Z is enough for this headphone or I would also need to get an amp? If yes/optional, would Schiit Magni be a good choice?
> ...



The Sound Blaster Z can power the 990 Pro 250 (I'm assuming you're looking at the 250 as it's the least expensive). It will sound awesome, but be aware that you'll be using SBX Surround for audio positioning in games, which some feel is inferior to other technologies for game positioning, e.g. Dolby Headphone.


----------



## autoteleology

Quote: 





daleb said:


> So I'm supposed to say that razer surround is good even though it messed up my soundcard? I don't think that's how it works.


 
   
  No, what you are supposed to do is not make strong claims that there are better pieces of software/hardware available and then not provide any information to back it up.

 "Thread policing" might be "the worst kind of contribution", but downplaying other people's suggestions without adding anything of your own is _negative contribution_. You make whoever suggested it feel like an idiot, and you contribute nothing to the actual mission at hand. Not to mention the fact that you even stated to have no idea about any of his needs or personal preferences, so what gives you the right to just knock down other people's contributions with no basis whatsoever? It's rude and unhelpful.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> No, what you are supposed to do is not make strong claims that there are better pieces of software/hardware available and then not provide any information to back it up.


 
  When did I ever do this?!


----------



## autoteleology

> When did I ever do this?!


 
   
  My point was to differentiate what you did from what he did. You didn't do that, but he did.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> My point was to differentiate what you did from what he did. You didn't do that, but he did.


 
  Maybe you start quoting so that we understand who is who.


----------



## Fegefeuer

tus-chan said:


> No, what you are supposed to do is not make strong claims that there are better pieces of software/hardware available and then not provide any information to back it up.
> 
> 
> "Thread policing" might be "the worst kind of contribution", but downplaying other people's suggestions without adding anything of your own is _negative contribution_. You make whoever suggested it feel like an idiot, and you contribute nothing to the actual mission at hand. Not to mention the fact that you even stated to have no idea about any of his needs or personal preferences, so what gives you the right to just knock down other people's contributions with no basis whatsoever? It's rude and unhelpful.




There's no downplay involved neither was there any offense towards "change is good". Why would I offend him? Where's the basis of my offense? There is none, it's just that you've taken his place (without asking his opinion or actual position) by your very own projection. That's a very insecure thing to do. You should let it go. 

You can be as geeky as much as you want (as we all are in this forum) but your interior should be mature.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> You can be as geeky as much as you want (as we all are in this forum) but your interior should be mature.


 
  Pfft. My dorm room is absolutely covered in geeky things. I even have a motherboard just up on the wall. Its awesome.
   
  I can understand the point of not getting something because it doesn't look well built or sturdy, but one persons "classy" is going to be another person's "boring."


----------



## autoteleology

> You've taken his place (without asking his opinion or actual position) by your very own projection. That's a very insecure thing to do. You should let it go.
> 
> You can be as geeky as much as you want (as we all are in this forum) but your interior should be mature.


 
   
  Ludicrous. My point is that you have no idea what someone else's tastes in furniture are, so why are you projecting your own values on someone else? Maybe other people like functional, geeky furniture. I know for a fact that I would love to have a wire-frame desk such as the one posted, at least for easier cable management.
   
  As for some suggestions to desks, I found some I liked on Amazon in a variety of styles (because I'm not going to claim that other people are only allowed to enjoy certain styles) in about three minutes:
   
http://www.amazon.com/Furinno-11181EX-BK-10015E-Computer/dp/B003VP5Y4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517606&sr=8-1&keywords=computer+desk
   
http://www.amazon.com/South-Shore-Axess-Collection-Black/dp/B003FGWY1O/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517606&sr=8-5&keywords=computer+desk
   
http://www.amazon.com/Z-Line-Belaire-Glass-L-Shaped-Computer/dp/B0019MAUTE/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517606&sr=8-15&keywords=computer+desk
   
http://www.amazon.com/Prepac-White-Floating-Desk-Storage/dp/B009I2AL8W/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517635&sr=8-23&keywords=computer+desk
   
http://www.amazon.com/Cabot-Corner-Desk-with-Hutch/dp/B007R40FSO/ref=sr_1_63?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517670&sr=8-63&keywords=computer+desk
   
http://www.amazon.com/On-Stage-WS7500-Wood-Workstation/dp/B001E33176/ref=sr_1_64?ie=UTF8&qid=1374517670&sr=8-64&keywords=computer+desk


----------



## davidsh

Let it go..


----------



## daleb

See, this is the problem, Tus-Chan. You sound like your attacking him, and that's why we all are having a problem with your posts.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd put up a picture of something completely irrelevant to stop the current line of posts, but I just woke up.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





infekkted said:


> I want to buy my first good headphone and after reading a lot I think the best headphone for me would be one that I could use for gaming, movies and music, like the DT 990. But I ended up with one doubt.
> My question is if the DT 990 PRO + Sound Blaster Z is enough for this headphone or I would also need to get an amp? If yes/optional, would Schiit Magni be a good choice?
> Or would be better to get the Z card and a cheaper headphone?


 
  Usually it's better to put cash towards the headphone, over anything else.
  For the price of what the DT990 + Sound Blaster Z cost, your not going to do any better.
  I'm sure Schiit Magni is a better headphone amplifier then what is built into the Z card.
  But chances are, with the Magni ($99), your going to want to buy something with a DAC chip in it (external DAC $60-$100 or a used ($55) sound card?)


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Usually it's better to put cash towards the headphone, over anything else.
> For the price of what the DT990 + Sound Blaster Z cost, your not going to do any better.
> I'm sure Schiit Magni is a better headphone amplifier then what is built into the Z card.
> But chances are, with the Magni ($99), your going to want to buy something with a DAC chip in it (external DAC $60-$100 or a used ($55) sound card?)


 
  But if you're listening from your computer, you'll get better sound from the Z than the onboard audio.  Plus the Z has some nice DSP and EQ. I'd do the Z rather than onboard plus the Magni.


----------



## Change is Good

Haha... while sleeping... I get called geeky and classless for picking a desk that fits my needs in this forsaken small apartment I'm in. Yeah, its a desk made of cheap material, that's all that needed to be said.
   
  Back to sleep I go... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Haha... while sleeping... I get called geeky and classless for picking a desk that fits my needs in this forsaken small apartment I'm in. Yeah, its a desk made of cheap material, that's all that needed to be said.
> 
> Back to sleep I go... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


 
  Don't remember anyone calling you geeky or classless for that matter?


----------



## Change is Good

Sorry, I guess he was referring to the furniture... not myself. I was half sleep when I was reading through the prior posts.
   
  Still sleepy... but cant sleep because I'm doing research for this freakin' history paper... hence why I've been up all night these past few days.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let's move on from all this back and forth, and go back o topic.

Used the X1 pretty much all day yesterday watching movies on my Ps3' through Amazon Instant Video. Lots of immersion and great audio cues. I'm very happy with the X1. The open soundstage paired with the immersive bass is such a fantastic combination.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'd put up a picture of something completely irrelevant to stop the current line of posts, but I just woke up.






change is good said:


> Sorry, I guess he was referring to the furniture... not myself. I was half sleep when I was reading through the prior posts.
> 
> Still sleepy... but cant sleep because I'm doing research for this freakin' history paper... hence why I've been up all night these past few days.




LoL, we've got a plague of fatigue!
I might recommend a sturdy, "classy" or at least mature and elegant, and ergonomic piece of furniture, and that recommendation would come from a perspective that you're throwing a decent amount of money into even a "cheap" piece of furniture. That investment serves you better if you want it to outlast the time you spend in a small apartment, and mature furniture makes the biggest impact on the impression that the residence is inhabited by someone with good taste and orderly mind. I'm about to move into an apartment, and I'd rather enjoy myself AND have guests have a clean, welcoming impression of my home. Hiding away a practical eyesore like that desk is even harder in a small apartment, and trust me, some of my guests are coming into my bedroom


----------



## Evshrug

Oh yes, I'm also excited that Creative may be releasing a new USB device soon, I may be able to test it but I'm concerned that since I work for a tech company it might be a conflict of interest if they just give it to me...


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> mature furniture makes the biggest impact on the impression that the residence is inhabited by someone with good taste and orderly mind..





> Hiding away a practical eyesore like that desk is even harder in a small apartment


 
  I'd consider that "mature" furniture to not give any impression to a visitor, other then letting them know they care about impressions. It doesn't tell them your hobbies, your passions. It doesn't do anything, really. Now, a desk covered in things anywhere from Pokemon cards to sports trophies, to anything else, that truly shows who that person is. If your visitors are made uncomfortable by that, and not by the lack of enthusiasm in your house, they shouldn't be over in the first place. they aren't your friends. What reason would you have them to be over here?
   
  Just my completely off topic 2 cents.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





daleb said:


> I'd consider that "mature" furniture to not give any impression to a visitor, other then letting them know they care about impressions. It doesn't tell them your hobbies, your passions. It doesn't do anything, really. Now, a desk covered in things anywhere from Pokemon cards to sports trophies, to anything else, that truly shows who that person is. If your visitors are made uncomfortable by that, and not by the lack of enthusiasm in your house, they shouldn't be over in the first place. they aren't your friends. What reason would you have them to be over here?
> 
> Just my completely off topic 2 cents.


 
  Well, I get that, I'm not saying your home should be devoid of your stamp of personality, haha, I'm just saying why buy a "dorm room furniture" piece when you only live in a dorm for a few years? And IF you are going to have a whole bunch of knickknacks you're proud of from your past such as trading cards and some school trophy, something nice for those things to sit on (and maybe put them on display) can make those things look better and show your pride. Why not have both personality and nice workmanship?
   
  Just, a chinzy cheap wireframe thing will always look "temporary." That's all I was saying. Wether or not you like to have good cable management and hide them is a whole 'nother kettle of fish!


----------



## ethan7000

mad lust envy said:


> Let's move on from all this back and forth, and go back o topic.
> 
> Used the X1 pretty much all day yesterday watching movies on my Ps3' through Amazon Instant Video. Lots of immersion and great audio cues. I'm very happy with the X1. The open soundstage paired with the immersive bass is such a fantastic combination.



Awesome. Just listened to a Steve Coleman album with them. Kept Dolby Headphone on, and used some of the Sound Blaster Z's Crystalizer and a bit of EQ. It was AMAZING! Loving these phones!


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Let's move on from all this back and forth, and go back o topic.
> 
> Used the X1 pretty much all day yesterday watching movies on my Ps3' through Amazon Instant Video. Lots of immersion and great audio cues. I'm very happy with the X1. The open soundstage paired with the immersive bass is such a fantastic combination.


 
   
  I have been using the X1 lots and lots for Black Ops 2 gaming on the Xbox 360. 
   
  These things absolutely destroy in Search and Destroy with Dead Silence (silence your footsteps) and Awareness (make enemy footsteps louder, and allow you to hear people who have Dead Silence) perks equipped.
   
  Rear cues are fantastic.... I can't count how many times I've killed a guy and immediately hear the footsteps of his teammate behind me who is trying to take advantage of the distraction... and then turn on him and kill him as well haha.
   
  And judging from my friends reactions, these far surpass the abilities of Turtle Beach and Astro headsets as they are always asking me how I heard a certain player when they could not hear him at all (friends have Awareness equipped as well).
   
  In comparison with the Annies, I just feel like it's a whole lot easier to pinpoint EXACTLY where someone is with the X1's. With the Annies, I remember being able to hear a person but often misreading where the person is actually coming from. I don't find that the bass on the X1's impedes on the ability to pick up footsteps and other cues.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Oh yes, I'm also excited that Creative may be releasing a new USB device soon, I may be able to test it but I'm concerned that since I work for a tech company it might be a conflict of interest if they just give it to me...


 
   
  Depending on what kind of tech company, it may or may not fall under a conflict of interests. I believe I remember you got the V-moda partner discount after getting the job, so your company must do resale of some kind. So if you're selling USB sound cards, that's normally viewed as fine. In most retail situations, many manufacturers will give you a discount on their products, sometimes even stuff for free, in order for you to familiarize yourself with it. The better you understand a product, the better and more likely you'll be to sell one. Now if your company makes a USB sound card and sells it, that could be viewed differently. If you made your own USB sound cards that you sold, it would definitely be a COI.
   
  If you're worried, a quick question to a superior can clear that up easily. Back in 2006 Panasonic gave me a $2300 discount on a 50" plasma. Did I sell a bunch of them after that? You bet I did. Because my time with it I learned all the neat hidden features. Now at that point, the only plasma that was better on the market was the Pioneer Elite at more than double the price. I got free Monster products as well. I still use their power conditioner to this day. Perks for working for Magnolia Home Theater, and that's just how the business works. But again, when in doubt, ask.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I think I may have found the portable headphone with the sound I've been looking for. It was suggested to me on another thread. Check this out...
   
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYBOUO0
   
  I don't know how you may feel about mid-size cans but I figured I'd share because you've been on a long portable hunt like myself... maybe longer...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I posted on that reveal thread about those headphones, lol. I was interested. But I'm kind of done spending so much on cans now. Still, they do seem very appealing. I DO want those, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





sniperczar said:


> I've heard good things about the HOTAS, even with Mechwarrior Online (which doesn't play with joysticks very well). Be sure to let us all know whether it was worth it. Sorry about your wallet!


 
   
  I had to go and re-grease it to reduce stiction on the stick (makes fine adjustments easier)...but I have to say it was worth every penny, and utterly eliminates the HOTAS Cougar withdrawal I was having. While the CH Products setup I had bought in the meantime had all the functionality, it just didn't have the *feel* that puts me into the virtual cockpit, so to speak.
   
  Simply put, the HOTAS Warthog has the feel. Very ergonomic, very smooth (even if the stick ball joint may have to be re-lubed for someone as picky and perfectionistic as I am), very precise, and just grabbing both of 'em makes me feel like I'm in the cockpit already, ready to rock. It also has a mind-boggling amount of buttons and switches to the point where I don't have to worry about running out of essential controls even with the most demanding sims!
   
  The only drawback I can think of is that TM/Guillemot doesn't produce TARGET-compatible USB rudder pedals, so it's more difficult to merge them all under a single DirectInput/WinMM ID (necessary for older games).
   
  Well, that, the slew control mini-stick is VERY small and thus difficult to make fine adjustments with (albeit also fairly precise and jitter-free), and the gap between the two throttle halves is significantly more than I was expecting, a bit jarring when coming from a Suncom SFS Throttle (which I planned to USB-mod at some point). Still, at least the slew control is much better than the mouse mini-stick on the Saitek X-52 (Pro) throttle, which suffers from equally small movement and much more limited precision.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> This is how you know you're on head-fi.
> As a side note, I just watched 4 episodes of TriGun last night.


 
   
  Yeah, I think flight simulation equipment is ultimately more damaging to my wallet than audio equipment. The Warthog itself is expensive enough, but if I were to throw in an FSSB R3 stick base for flying Falcon BMS the proper way (like I used to with the FCC-modded Cougar while I had it), or maybe get my hands on some Simped F-16 pedals...oh god, my wallet's screaming in agony. And the more recent sims like Rise of Flight and DCS World are pretty computer-intensive in and of themselves, also giving me more of a computer upgrade itch. Oh, and of course, if you want to build a full simpit, with working switches and gauges and everything...at that point, I'd probably get kicked out of the house.
   
  As for Trigun, I need to get on that. I've seen random episodes here and there years ago and liked what I saw, but like all anime series, it needs to be watched in-order, start to finish.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I posted on that reveal thread about those headphones, lol. I was interested. But I'm kind of done spending so much on cans now. Still, they do seem very appealing. I DO want those, lol.


 
   
  They're on my wish list but I won't be getting them until my classes start in the fall. My only class, atm, is an online class so I don't really need these right away. Still, these will be perfect for school... and my search for a portable headphone that isn't an IEM may finally be over lol.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Mad, I think I may have found the portable headphone with the sound I've been looking for. It was suggested to me on another thread. Check this out...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CYBOUO0
> 
> I don't know how you may feel about mid-size cans but I figured I'd share because you've been on a long portable hunt like myself... maybe longer...


 

 It doesn't even look like it has padding... Supposedly it has memory foam pads? Whats the sound on it like?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uhh, yeah it does. O_O

And headband padding isn't as importanrt when the weight is properly distributed. Loot at the Hifiman mans. very little padding, and I find the headband to be one of the best, at least with the HE-4's weight.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





daleb said:


> It doesn't even look like it has padding... Supposedly it has memory foam pads? Whats the sound on it like?


 
   
  Lol, I thought that at first. The stock pics don't do it any justice. Here's a quote from the review...
   


> _"The memory foam pads are a delight. The clamp is minimal."_


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, are there ever any meets close to our area?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not that i know of. I think there was one not too long ago, but it was like Tallahassee. Screw that drive. Lol.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Depending on what kind of tech company, it may or may not fall under a conflict of interests. I believe I remember you got the V-moda partner discount after getting the job, so your company must do resale of some kind. So if you're selling USB sound cards, that's normally viewed as fine. In most retail situations, many manufacturers will give you a discount on their products, sometimes even stuff for free, in order for you to familiarize yourself with it. The better you understand a product, the better and more likely you'll be to sell one. Now if your company makes a USB sound card and sells it, that could be viewed differently. If you made your own USB sound cards that you sold, it would definitely be a COI.
> 
> If you're worried, a quick question to a superior can clear that up easily. Back in 2006 Panasonic gave me a $2300 discount on a 50" plasma. Did I sell a bunch of them after that? You bet I did. Because my time with it I learned all the neat hidden features. Now at that point, the only plasma that was better on the market was the Pioneer Elite at more than double the price. I got free Monster products as well. I still use their power conditioner to this day. Perks for working for Magnolia Home Theater, and that's just how the business works. But again, when in doubt, ask.



Thanks for your reply.
It's kind of gray, possibly a COI because they were going to "let me test it" assumedly for free, but possibly not a COI because they don't know where I work and were just extending the offer to a user. I forwarded the email to my manager, and basically we decided it's too dark a gray to risk. We don't make competing products, but we do make some sources, and who knows what our future business would be?
So, much as I'd love free stuff, I'm just going to say I can't test it but I would be happy to buy and suggest the device be added to our company discount program. Seems the most honest and transparent way to be.


----------



## dakanao

What exactly does a lush, organic, full sounding headphone sounds like?


----------



## xEzio

Can the Q701 6.3mm jack be switch to 3.5mm?


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





xezio said:


> Can the Q701 6.3mm jack be switch to 3.5mm?


 
  Switched? Probably, if you make a custom cable.
   
  It comes with a 6.3 mm to 3.5 mm adaptor though. 
   
  Something like this:


----------



## xEzio

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Switched? Probably, if you make a custom cable.
> 
> It comes with a 6.3 mm to 3.5 mm adaptor though.
> 
> Something like this:


 
   
  Ahh excellent! Thank you! miceblue! Hopefully the guy I bought the Q701 from still have the adapter lol, I wanna use it on my PC.


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> What exactly does a lush, organic, full sounding headphone sounds like?


 
   
  Well, it's an attempt to describe something that is hard to quantify. I guess another way to word the description is there is a fair amount of bass and mids, a lush amount details are there but because of the "fullness and body" of the mids and bass the details don't stand starkly out by themselves but as part of the whole, and it's organic because different notes transition pleasantly into the next. So overall, not the most revealing headphone, but still good and pleasant to listen to for entertainment.
  Quote: 





xezio said:


> Can the Q701 6.3mm jack be switch to 3.5mm?


 
  The Q701 cables end in typical 3.5mm plugs, and the headphone comes with a 3.5mm-to-6.3mm plug adapter. So, the included cables have the smaller, more typical plug, and the adapter makes it like the bigger plug.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





xezio said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Oh yeah, *Evshrug* is correct. The Q 701 is terminated with a regular 3.5 jack, whereas the K 701 is terminated with the larger 6.5 mm one. They both come with an adaptor for the other size plug though. XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do NOT use that 6.3 to 3.5mm adapter, unless you wanna potentially ruin whatever jack you plug it into. Get the Sennheiser or Grado adapter, which has a small cable, relieving some of the stress/tension put on the headphone jack by thise bad adapters.


----------



## chicolom

If you have a Q701 don't get any adapter. You just unthread the end and it's then 3.5mm.


----------



## jtlindeman

Thanks for such a wonderful guide. It led me to initially purchase a DT 990 pro as I wanted a decent all rounder for competition and immersion. I enjoy them however I feel as though I want a little more out of the bottom end as I'm now playing much more single player and using them for music. 

So my question is whether or not it would be worth trading them in for an x1. Sounds like they have a similar signature with a bit more of that deep bass I'm looking for. After selling my 3ds xl and the 990s I can pretty much get them for nothing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990 pro is very low end heavy. If you want more, then you're just a basshead. The x1 has less bass than the 990 pro.

Might wanna look into the 770 Pro 80. Though you're gonna sacrifice sound quality for more bass.


----------



## ethan7000

jtlindeman said:


> Thanks for such a wonderful guide. It led me to initially purchase a DT 990 pro as I wanted a decent all rounder for competition and immersion. I enjoy them however I feel as though I want a little more out of the bottom end as I'm now playing much more single player and using them for music.
> 
> So my question is whether or not it would be worth trading them in for an x1. Sounds like they have a similar signature with a bit more of that deep bass I'm looking for. After selling my 3ds xl and the 990s I can pretty much get them for nothing.



I was able to get more sub bass (30hz thump) out of the X1's.


----------



## jtlindeman

mad lust envy said:


> The 990 pro is very low end heavy. If you want more, then you're just a basshead. The x1 has less bass than the 990 pro.
> 
> Might wanna look into the 770 Pro 80. Though you're gonna sacrifice sound quality for more bass.




I'm not sure if I have a bad pair or something, but mine just don't seem to have much punch at all. The only way I can get a decent quantity of bass is with the bass boost on my SB Z turned all the way up. I also have them hooked up to a magni. Without the boost it's very underwhelming, particularly with music. I was actually kind of surprised by the lack of bass after reading your review and the posts in the thread.


----------



## dakanao

Does the X1 has good enough sub bass for movies and games?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is oriented towards mid bass. If you want sub bass, open headphones are not the way to go. The bass the X1 has is plentiful for movies, but they are not Denons.


----------



## ethan7000

I want to try those Denons - why'd you end up selling yours?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pleather/leather pads = heat


----------



## Fegefeuer

I actually find the ethiopian sheepskin leather used in the Signature series quite cooler compared to the horrible pleather of all other headphones and in warmer days it's at least definitely "cleaner" or easier to clean than velour. I never use any velour in these warm evenings but honestly I am mostly playing over my speakers recently and avoid headphones during this heat (97 Fahrenheit).


----------



## pietcux

I find the AKG K702 quite ok @ these temps, they are not sweaty. I do not game with the Sones, prefer the AKG.


----------



## dakanao

Yesterday it was 30 degrees celcius, and I gamed like 2 hours straight with my K540's, and they didn't sweat or anything like that, just becamse a tiny bit hot, just a tiny bit. I must say however, if there are multiple enemies around me in MW2, and 2 of them are like upstairs and 2 of them to the sides, it's VERY hard to pinpoint were they're coming from. It only works when they're close to you. I'd give them a 4 for competitive gaming.


----------



## pietcux

This is not your cans fault. l have the same issue in Black Ops 2 too. Map Aftermath, when camping in a garage like building in the second floor, teammates that respawn on the first foor soun like they are right beside you. That is very annoying. I think it is a bug in the sound engine or in some map locations.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> Yesterday it was 30 degrees celcius, and I gamed like 2 hours straight with my K540's, and they didn't sweat or anything like that


 
  But 30 C isn't very hot at all...


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> This is not your cans fault. l have the same issue in Black Ops 2 too. Map Aftermath, when camping in a garage like building in the second floor, teammates that respawn on the first foor soun like they are right beside you. That is very annoying. I think it is a bug in the sound engine or in some map locations.


 
  I don't have BO 2, I'm talking about MW2.
   
  daleb that's 86 Fahrenheit.


----------



## pietcux

Both games share the same engine. Not much did change since MW1. Even the next sequel COD GHOSTS will have the same engine, just maxed out as much as possible. And btw, I have all COD games since MW1. And this issue can be found in all sequels,but not on every map.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> daleb that's 86 Fahrenheit.


 
  Yes? 86 isn't hot at all...
  Edit: I guess being accustomed to different temperatures would also change how the body reacts, not just how you feel? For me 86 is rather cold and pleasant.


----------



## pietcux

Come on, tell us what you got!


----------



## ethan7000

At 86 deg I'm sweating and the X1's make me feel a lot hotter. I need to stay around 78 to feel comfortable.


----------



## miceblue

Mmm...don't you love sweat-soaked velour pads? XD


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> Yesterday it was 30 degrees celcius, and I gamed like 2 hours straight with my K540's, and they didn't sweat or anything like that, just becamse a tiny bit hot, just a tiny bit. I must say however, if there are multiple enemies around me in MW2, and 2 of them are like upstairs and 2 of them to the sides, it's VERY hard to pinpoint were they're coming from. It only works when they're close to you. I'd give them a 4 for competitive gaming.



MW2 has only home-theater type surround, there's nothing in the audio engine to account for height cues to the sound. Something that has been lamented over and over... so, that's not your headphone's fault, that's the game engine's fault. 3D surround, which was really only ever practical with headphones, was a thing, a very good thing, but since consoles don't support it most game developers have let 3D surround fall by the wayside.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> At 86 deg I'm sweating and the X1's make me feel a lot hotter. I need to stay around 78 to feel comfortable.


 
  78 is also nice! Anywhere from 70-90 is a great temperature. Its not until 95 that I start complaining, and at about 105 I won't even walk out the door. Mmm, Texas weather!


----------



## LNCPapa

I keep my computer room at 69-70 F.  Once it gets up to around 74-75 I'm too uncomfortable to stay in there and that's where my headphone kit is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I need to be at less than 75 degrees farenheit to not wanna throw any headphones off my head. I can't stand heat l, and I get hot easy. My house is basically set to 71-72 at all times.

As far as vertical positional cues... they are non existent in console gaming, so don't try. Certain sound effects in certain games and movies will give the impression they are vertical, but it's all in your head, as you try and process what you see on screen. Games have a horizontal soundstage nowadays.

Things like Dolby Headphone are simulating speakers in a room. And speakers in a room will be to the front and behind you, not above or below.


----------



## BattlePope

How would a regular set of headphones without the 7.1 surround sound/Dolby Headphone perform in game? Is there a range of positional awareness on headphones without 7.1 surround? Or is positional awareness pretty universal across the board without 7.1? This is for computers too. I know this is a console guide but figured I'd ask anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I personally feel that good headphones in basic stereo are very similar in positional accuracy. Lots of left to right cues, and everything in between. No real depth forward or backwards. This is with all types of headphones I have used.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I personally feel that good headphones in basic stereo are very similar in positional accuracy. Lots of left to right cues, and everything in between. No real depth forward or backwards. This is with all types of headphones I have used.


 
   
  I agree and I always advise (despite the lack of better binaural from good old times) that cues should be evaluated blindly. Many people say stereo is sufficient for positioning but they forget the visual references that help their brain (pardon my English) approximate the distances or directions.


----------



## benbenkr

I only use stereo in MOBA or RTS games, because there's absolutely no advantage to using virtual surround in these type of games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There are definitely certain games (lots of indie games) that aren't even capable of virtual surround as well.

While I find virtual surround to be helpful for any and every kind of game out there due to the expansion of virtual space, it isn't always necessary.


----------



## autoteleology

It would probably be nice if Infinity Ward would stop milking the same outdated and obsolete engine over and over. It's already showing signs of age with MW3; I can hardly imagine why, with all the resources they have, they have chosen to reuse the engine again for Ghosts.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> I can hardly imagine why, with all the resources they have, they have chosen to reuse the engine again for Ghosts.


 
  Because they know people will buy it anyways. Why put more work into something when you're going to break sales records using old tech?


----------



## pietcux

COD GHOSTS will be availble for the new and the old consoles. So this will be a bridge game. I finf the videos they show do look very good, so why do they need a complete new engine. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. And as the software is modular, they can tweak it a lot. They could even give us a better sound engine. 
But when playing the multyplayer, I don't have time to concentrate too much on the verticalness or not of the sound. I might get killed doing so....
Btw GHOSTS is on preorder already......


----------



## DemonFox

murder mike said:


> tus-chan said:
> 
> 
> > I can hardly imagine why, with all the resources they have, they have chosen to reuse the engine again for Ghosts.
> ...




I feel like that attitude has finally caught up to them and ghost will be overshadowed by BF4, watchdogs, The Division (2014) and possibly Titan Fall. They're all bringing new things to the table and COD will basically be the same is every way except for the dog. I'll probably rent it or wait until the price drops. BF4 and Forza 5 will be where all my time will be spent.


Thanks,


:evil:


----------



## daleb

Personally, I'm still surprised people buy CoD at all! Then again, I don't enjoy FPSes, so I probably can't tell when there's a reason to get it over the other FPSes...


----------



## pietcux

It is not only a matter of taste for me. I simply have no time to play longer than lets say 1 hour straight. This fact alone sorts out lots of fascinating games. It is even to short for proper BF 3/4 online sessions. COD is different. You can even play 10 minutes and be happy every now and then. And then it does not hurt that the game does not change to much. We just move to a new set of maps every 12 month.....


----------



## autoteleology

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> It is not only a matter of taste for me. I simply have no time to play longer than lets say 1 hour straight. This fact alone sorts out lots of fascinating games. It is even to short for proper BF 3/4 online sessions. COD is different. You can even play 10 minutes and be happy every now and then. And then it does not hurt that the game does not change to much. We just move to a new set of maps every 12 month.....


 
   
  Yes, BF3 is a slower game at its fastest (Nose-Hair Canals 64 Player TDM) than Modern Warfare 3 is at its slowest. There's nothing wrong with that, and I play both frequently, but MW3 is a game you play when you have a couple of hours to blow, and BF3 is a game you spend a whole day playing.
   
  CoD is also much more intense and adrenaline-soaked than BF3. BF3 is much more of a strategic game than a tactical game.


----------



## ethan7000

I only play Battlefield on PC - how does positional audio compare between BF3 and the latest COD iterations?


----------



## autoteleology

Positional audio on BF3 is basically a joke compared to Call of Duty. Too much ambient noise, footsteps and other noises are too quiet, and for what's left of the positional audio, the directional accuracy isn't very good.

 Having good audio in a Call of Duty game is almost like having a wall hack.


----------



## ethan7000

That's too bad, the game is so great otherwise.  I agree that the positional audio could be much better in BF3, especially footsteps.  But with DH and good cans, it's still really fun sounding.  I'm always impressed when a rocket flies by my head haha


----------



## 3X0

I'm impressed with the positional audio of Borderlands 2 _without_ Dolby Headphone thrown in. More games should have stereo mixing like this by default.


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> I simply have no time to play longer than lets say 1 hour straight.


 
  You could always make time... Quitting your job won't be that big of a deal, right?


----------



## autoteleology

> You could always make time... Quitting your job won't be that big of a deal, right?


 
   
  Hey, you've got to make sacrifices if you want to get ahead in Call of Duty.


----------



## Evshrug

3x0 said:


> I'm impressed with the positional audio of Borderlands 2 _without_ Dolby Headphone thrown in. More games should have stereo mixing like this by default.



Borderlands 2 is actually a stellar game audio example. You actually CAN utilize OpenAL in that game (according to NamelessPFG), and thus 3D audio on a PC. Rakk swooping from above and midgets chucking axes at you from below.
As a side note, I think it takes less concentration and is instinctively easier to understand where things are and what's going on if audio is in 3D, rather than trying to add visual cues and memory of map layout to 2D sound to guess where you just got shot at from.


----------



## conquerator2

Speaking of outdated graphical and audio engines...
   
  HE-6 - Speaker amp - DSS (DTS 5.1) - PS3 - Last of Us 0_0 drool...
   
  Seriously bought it yesterday and it is just such an awesome game.
   
  Audio quality is awesome (I can get great explosions with nice, detailed bass. Something a COD game just cant do - makes a distorted mess with the HE-6)
   
  Developers keep bitching that quality audio taxes the processor and what not...
  Well the LoU is one of the best looking and sounding games. a perfect blend and feels just so refreshing to have a TPS tactical gape (wouldnt call it a shooter at all)
   
  I am just stunned. Like there have been a few games where the audio was very good (Borderlands, Uncharted, all the 1st party games and other non-FPS third parties) and where the audio just doesnt work with the HE-6 (Call of Duty X,Y,Z... just no, its unplayable the bass is just oomp, no texture there... distorted mess)
   
  It all bears down on the implementation of the sound (engine). Definitely possible to have a great sound in FPS, without overblown bloaty bass....
   
  Anyway, just a heads-up on a great game + a little rant of mine 
  The vocals/voices the overall sound blend is just so nice, great positional cues. accompanied by awesome visuals... Really liking it.
   
  Also, the game lets you choose between different audio and (surround) sound setup - there is stereo HP, stereo speaker, Pro Logic II, DTS 5.1 (by default, my favorite) Speaker sizes, speaker range,... I wish every game had this customization degree!
   
  Enjoying the HE-6 with the DSS (and a speaker amp) immensely. Was thinking the sound quality would be much worse, but it is kinda decent with most games, YMMV (minus COD and most FPS)


----------



## ethan7000

Last of Us? Haven't heard of it...is it multiplayer?


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Last of Us? Haven't heard of it...is it multiplayer?


 
  There is a multiplayer, but it's primarily a single-player, story based, third-person shooter. It's a Naughty Dog game, so if you like Uncharted, you'd probably like it. Obviously PS3 exclusive. Surprised you haven't heard of it yet.


----------



## ethan7000

Ah that's why, I'm on PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's like gonna be game of the year, and you haven't heard of it? Lol.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Speaking of outdated graphical and audio engines...
> 
> HE-6 - Speaker amp - DSS (DTS 5.1) - PS3 - Last of Us 0_0 drool...



Wait... What? Are you talking about the Turtle Beach DSS? The one that only processes DDL input? I guess your PS3 is translating DTS into DDL... which is cool.


----------



## dakanao

What's DDL?
   
  My xbox live gold should end in a few weeks. After that I'm gonna restart the GTA 4 campaign until GTA 5 comes out!


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Wait... What? Are you talking about the Turtle Beach DSS? The one that only processes DDL input? I guess your PS3 is translating DTS into DDL... which is cool.


 
  Nope
   
  This one
   

   

   
  Can do pro logic II and DTS 5.1/7.1 according to the manual.
  Came with the TB PX5 (what a POS that was)
  At least this unit is rather solid


----------



## pietcux

This is what I found regarding the sound in the upcoming COD GHOSTS.
   
http://www.examiner.com/article/call-of-duty-ghosts-ps4-and-xbox-one-upgraded-sound-system-details-posted
  Mark Rubin has provided some details in regards to the improved sound system in the upcoming multiplatform video game, “Call of Duty: Ghosts.” According to a report by MP1st on July 8, the executive producer at Infinity Ward revealed that the upgraded game engine can render sounds based on the player’s location. As a result, noise from smaller and bigger rooms in a building will be different. Moreover, bullets will produce different sounds based on the type material that was targeted.
   
  That sounds promising, doesn't it? but they do not talk about vertical sound location.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> This is what I found regarding the sound in the upcoming COD GHOSTS.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/article/call-of-duty-ghosts-ps4-and-xbox-one-upgraded-sound-system-details-posted
> Mark Rubin has provided some details in regards to the improved sound system in the upcoming multiplatform video game, “Call of Duty: Ghosts.” According to a report by MP1st on July 8, the executive producer at Infinity Ward revealed that the upgraded game engine can render sounds based on the player’s location. As a result, noise from smaller and bigger rooms in a building will be different. Moreover, bullets will produce different sounds based on the type material that was targeted.
> ...


 
   
  Well, technically, vertical is not possible to simulate in the current technology. The DDX might be able to do some sort of vertical simulation but we will see how this turns out.
  The material thing has been done before in this gen, there are games where this applies already and is not hard to do IMO.
  As far as bigger/smaller room this has been also done (in a scripted way mostly, yes) so I want to see just how much of an improvement there would be (like realistically calculated sound based on room size? That would be a bit taxing, no?)
   
  Does sound promising  as far as COD goes, but overall its a question just how much of an improvement it is from the "prerendered" sounds we get now...
   
  To name my current game of choice-The Last of Us, the bullet material thing is in it, the bigger/smaller room thing is as well (to a certain extent)
  And I dont really think they can do much about vertical cues in general, we just dont have that technology available yet (lets see how the Dolby X will do, but who knows when it will be supported?)
   
  So IMO Mr. Rubin is just trying to make it sound like its something new, when in theory (in other games...) it might be not, just a COD new thing 
   
  Still really wondering just how much better will the things sound in next-gen... By the looks of it, it will still be heavily compressed stuff but at least we have dedicated hardware for that... 
  Also fingers crossed for FLAC support 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Peace


----------



## Eric_C

What up guys, been a long time.
  I gotta sell my HE-400 off because I changed specs and they don't play nice with the weight+pressure of the 400.
   
  Any new (cheap) reco's? SLYR looked good, but it's not for sale in my country.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The slyr has amazingly soft pads. Probably my faves after the beyer velours. I just wish they were more over ear. I have to tuck my ears in, but comfort is still excellent.


----------



## Eric_C

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> SLYR looked good, but it's not for sale in my country.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The slyr has amazingly soft pads. Probably my faves after the beyer velours. I just wish they were more over ear. I have to tuck my ears in, but comfort is still excellent.


 
   
  T_T


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> This is what I found regarding the sound in the upcoming COD GHOSTS.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/article/call-of-duty-ghosts-ps4-and-xbox-one-upgraded-sound-system-details-posted
> Mark Rubin has provided some details in regards to the improved sound system in the upcoming multiplatform video game, “Call of Duty: Ghosts.” According to a report by MP1st on July 8, the executive producer at Infinity Ward revealed that the upgraded game engine can render sounds based on the player’s location. As a result, noise from smaller and bigger rooms in a building will be different. Moreover, bullets will produce different sounds based on the type material that was targeted.
> ...


 
   
  It doesn't because of how much BS they've been spewing since they revealed the game.

 First it was that Ghost uses an entirely new engine, turns out it's just an updated rehashed one.
  Then they say the engine allows them to simulate AI dynamically, when everything is actually pre-canned (remember the fishes in the underwater trailer?).
  Then it was that lighting is also in real-time, which then turns out it isn't.
   
  So much BS in just one day and I can't take the devs seriously anymore. So things like better virtual surround simulation is pretty much just telling everyone to take what they say with a grain of salt. I don't think we'd even remember any of this when the game releases.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





lncpapa said:


> I keep my computer room at 69-70 F.  Once it gets up to around 74-75 I'm too uncomfortable to stay in there and that's where my headphone kit is.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I need to be at less than 75 degrees farenheit to not wanna throw any headphones off my head. I can't stand heat l, and I get hot easy. My house is basically set to 71-72 at all times.
> 
> As far as vertical positional cues... they are non existent in console gaming, so don't try. Certain sound effects in certain games and movies will give the impression they are vertical, but it's all in your head, as you try and process what you see on screen. Games have a horizontal soundstage nowadays.
> 
> Things like Dolby Headphone are simulating speakers in a room. And speakers in a room will be to the front and behind you, not above or below.


 
   
  I'm reminded of how the computer room gets awfully warm in here after a while, just from leaving my desktop running. Having a Q6600 and a GTX 480 on water-cooling and overclocked a fair bit tends to do that, and that's before I turn on my CECHA PS3 and let it dump even more heat into the air. Sometimes I even wonder if the air conditioning's on...
   
  I still think the industry should be striving for proper binaural sound. It's not that consoles can't do it-they've got more than enough CPU power, and the PS3 in particular has had its Cell SPEs used for sound processing-but that the only developer who's even bothering to try it is DICE with BF3 and enhanced stereo mode, which may or may not work as well as you'd like. (Also, while I'm still wondering how they convincingly made those helicopter sound effects sound "above the head" even with a typical speaker mix and ESM off, I think I figured out part of it; they're cheating. It's a pre-recorded mix that pans in the same direction no matter how you turn around in-game.)
   
  Chances are it would be a commonplace option by now if developers cared, particularly if it were an integrated option for FMOD, Wwise, etc. I'm sure that PC game developers in the old days didn't choose to implement DirectSound3D or OpenAL specifically to permit binaural sound over headphones; it was more of a convenient side effect that arose from the way the APIs worked.


----------



## Fegefeuer

BF3 hugely lives off pre-baked audio and well done recordings. The latter takes a good chunk of critical focus away from people when they evaluate it. The first thing you hear or read people say is: wow, that sound! It actually got several awards for best audio of the year. 
   
  We don't have much choice. Unless FMOD and Miles do something and properly develop binaural plugins or features we can only hope for game-specific binaural stuff directly from the Devs. It's not an easy task though with all the R&D, filters, numbers (different heads, different hrtf etc...) involved. Damn you Creative for letting your research rot.
   
DTS Headphone X is no magical newcomer, Sure, from what I read, it could be quite spectacular for movies and bomb everyone else away, let alone "get" us devices that have input for DTS-HD (which will include binaural info for DTS Headphone X)/PCM streams but games are a different thing. They're interactive, they change perspective, pan at free will, they're not hardcoded.
   
It needs engine support, for proper binaural audio. Access to every single sound information in the space. I don't see that happening. Does DATASAT have a Middleware prepared? 
   
Maybe they only have tools that do something along BF3 with prebaking possibilites and something like 11.2 (don't know the exact stream numbers) output for the DTS Headphone X device. At least it (devices) gives us much better SQ than AC3 and if my speculation is true a more detailed space (> 7.1 to Headphones) than DHP and Co.


----------



## Murder Mike

Has anyone tried the X41 base with a PS3? It's a toss up between that and a DSS right now. I don't need chat, I just need something to get surround out of my CALs.


----------



## conquerator2

Quote: 





murder mike said:


> Has anyone tried the X41 base with a PS3? It's a toss up between that and a DSS right now. I don't need chat, I just need something to get surround out of my CALs.


 
   
  I am using the PX5 base (looks identical, just different color).
  Its quite decent actually, good position cues, immersion. I use it daily with my PS3 and the HE-6 and its quite accurate.
  Would definitely get the bass instead of the DSS if you can choose 
   
  See post nr. 15426


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





conquerator2 said:


> I am using the PX5 base (looks identical, just different color).
> Its quite decent actually, good position cues, immersion. I use it daily with my PS3 and the HE-6 and its quite accurate.
> Would definitely get the bass instead of the DSS if you can choose
> 
> See post nr. 15426


 
   
  Good to know. I can get a X41 base without power cord for $20. A power cord is $5 and an optical cable is $5. I can get a PX5 base for $30 with power cord, no optical. A DSS is $24 and comes with everything.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> BF3 hugely lives off pre-baked audio and well done recordings. The latter takes a good chunk of critical focus away from people when they evaluate it. The first thing you hear or read people say is: wow, that sound! It actually got several awards for best audio of the year.
> 
> We don't have much choice. Unless FMOD and Miles do something and properly develop binaural plugins or features we can only hope for game-specific binaural stuff directly from the Devs. It's not an easy task though with all the R&D, filters, numbers (different heads, different hrtf etc...) involved. Damn you Creative for letting your research rot.
> 
> ...


 
  Positional audio may be no better, but the sounds I've heard from the BF4 vids I've seen are pretty sweet.


----------



## ethan7000

If anyone's interested, here's the video of BF4 gameplay. Obviously this is just stereo output, but I think the sounds themselves are really good. The compression and impact of the vehicle and chopper guns and the new sound of the rpg are pretty sweet. I also like the lower frequency sound when the player is taking hits and explosions seem to have less of the annoying mid range crackle that they have in BF3. 
http://youtu.be/tqJfCPcu0As


----------



## miceblue

I tried the SRM-2170 with Counter Strike: Global Offensive and it wasn't bad. I prefer the K 701 over it for gaming but the soundstage of the SRM-2170 is definitely more 2D and positional cues aren't as apparent in comparison. Maybe it's due to the K 701's odd imaging and 1D soundstage.


----------



## conquerator2

"Meanwhile playing The.Last of Us"
-_- °-° 0_0 ^_^ :O 
Seriously I am having so much fun with this game. The story the characters the gameplay the graphics the sound... This must win the GOTY! I am so into this game ~ even though I know the ending already :/ (thanks internet!), there is just so much stuff... I am halfway through the game so far and enjoying every single second... An absolute recommendation! Well played again you Naughty Dog you, well played.


----------



## Naingolann

I'm still holding out before buying TLoU. The price is still a bit too steep and it's not like I have no backlog to attend to anyway... x_x


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> The price is still a bit too steep and it's not like I have no backlog to attend to anyway... x_x


 
   
  Lol, that didn't stop me from buying it...


----------



## jincuteguy

So the Philip X1 earpads are really not replaceable for real? I haven't got any confirmation from the company, ppl are just talking about how they can't replace them. That's the only one thing that stop me from buying this awesome X1 headphone for gaming. I guess I would have to go with the DT 990 250ohm pro. What do you guys think?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Lol, that didn't stop me from buying it...




Ditto. Totally worth it for the Joel-Ellie story factor alone


----------



## davidsh

I guess they are replaceable. You rip em off, and stick some new pads on Stax style?


----------



## jincuteguy

davidsh said:


> I guess they are replaceable. You rip em off, and stick some new pads on Stax style?




Are you serious? Rip them off?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're attached via adhesive and some screws. You'll have to carefully yank them off. Replacing the pads is probably just hard due to needing adhesive, but the problem isn't that. The problem is that Philips may not sell the pads...


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> They're attached via adhesive and some screws. You'll have to carefully yank them off. Replacing the pads is probably just hard due to needing adhesive, but the problem isn't that. The problem is that Philips may not sell the pads...




Yea so they're not replaceable in the end. Not worth buying this headphone then. Im just gonna go with the DT 990 Pro. I thnk in terms of the sound quality , the 990 Pro is almost as good as the X1 for gaming. Plus the 990 Looks way better on your head than the X1. And the silver velour earpads from the 990 won't get dirty as easy as the black ones on the X1. Basically I hate these black velour earpads, like why can't they just make them in a different color like silver, red, or soemthing. Because black velour are very easy to attract dirt and other stuff, even with just 1 day of usage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Silver velour pads actually stain easier. Black velour just shows the dust easier.

The 990 pro is one of the ugliest headphones I've ever owned. The X1 is beautiful.

Both are huge and look dorky worn.

The X1 is a significant leap in sound quality over the 990 Pro. Make no mistake about that. There is nothing the 990 Pro does better.

I dunno what's gonna happen in a few years, but I plan on taking care of my pads. I'll probably ask for a replacement before warranty is up.


----------



## jincuteguy

The X1 when u put it on your head, u look like an ugly mofo. Just take a mirror and look at urself. The 990 Pro on the other hand looks cleaner. The silver velour earpads do get stain easier, but they're still look cleaner, and u can buy a new one after a year or so. The only thing that the X1 does better than the 990 is the bass, and a bit less harsh on the treble. I just can't see myself wearing the X1 and look like an ugly mofo.


----------



## familyguy26

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Silver velour pads actually stain easier. Black velour just shows the dust easier.
> 
> The 990 pro is one of the ugliest headphones I've ever owned. The X1 is beautiful.
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  I purchased the X1 based on the overall positive responses from these boards, but I sent it back the same day and went back to my 990 Pro. It had nothing to do with sound quality.  As soon as I put the X1 on I felt a difference in the comfort. The earpads just were not as comfortable for me as my 990s and they made my ears feel warm after only a few minutes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990s spoil on comfort, I dont deny that. Those pads are heavenly. But you'll be stuck with them forever. If you find the X1 uncomfortable.


----------



## jincuteguy

familyguy26 said:


> I purchased the X1 based on the overall positive responses from these boards, but I sent it back the same day and went back to my 990 Pro. It had nothing to do with sound quality.  As soon as I put the X1 on I felt a difference in the comfort. The earpads just were not as comfortable for me as my 990s and they made my ears feel warm after only a few minutes.




But what about the sound compare to your 990 Pro? If it wasn't for the comfort, would u keep the X1?


----------



## familyguy26

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> But what about the sound compare to your 990 Pro? If it wasn't for the comfort, would u keep the X1?


 
  I didn't have them long and I'm not as much as an audiophile as everyone else here so it's a bit hard to comment, but yes, if I could replace the earpads on the X1 with the ones from the dt990 then I would have kept them.  I also want to clarify it was just the earpads that weren't that comfortable for me, but the other things like the overall size and comfort of the headband felt better than my 990 pro.


----------



## ethan7000

Having both, I find the sound and comfort better on the X1


----------



## noTREEon

Hey guys im looking for a cheap pair of gaming headphones for around $80 (less or more).  I have heard great things about the AD-700's but i have heard that the base is low and I want a pair that is good for fps ( BF3) and for normal use like music and YouTube.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





notreeon said:


> Hey guys I'm looking for a cheap pair of gaming headphones for around $80 (less or more).  I have heard great things about the AD-700's but i have heard that the base is low and I want a pair that is good for fps ( BF3) and for normal use like music and YouTube.


 
  If your music and movies do not need bass to sound good, get the AD700s.


----------



## noTREEon

I do many listen to techno half the time i'm not playing, any other recommendations?


----------



## jincuteguy

ethan7000 said:


> Having both, I find the sound and comfort better on the X1




Damn, it's nice that u have both  So which one do u use more for gaming? I would assume the X1? Also u have the Sound Blaster Z sound card too. That is exactly what I want to get. Just not sure whether I should get the DT 990 Pro or the X1.


----------



## ethan7000

jincuteguy said:


> Damn, it's nice that u have both  So which one do u use more for gaming? I would assume the X1? Also u have the Sound Blaster Z sound card too. That is exactly what I want to get. Just not sure whether I should get the DT 990 Pro or the X1.



I really don't use the 990's for anything since getting the X1. They are awesome for immersive gaming and music. Lately I've been listening to a lot of modern jazz (aggressive bass and drums) and dubstep, both of which sound great. For classical, I prefer my Sennheisers, for a more natural and neutral sound, so it can depend on what you like to listen to. The SB Z puts out a really nice clear sound and has some great processing available. Really, I don't think you can go wrong with the Z + X1.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





notreeon said:


> I do many listen to techno half the time i'm not playing, any other recommendations?


 
  Check out the CAL (Creative Aurvana Live!), it's by far the best bang for your buck out there for a gaming/musicality combo and they're right around your price range.  The AD700 is going to be a bit more sterile sounding and I'd only recommend them for serious competitive gaming and if you are using 3D virtualization software, but you can always use EQ if they seem bass-light I suppose - the CAL is pretty warm.  The AD700 will have the benefits of open headphones with a wider soundstage and more air.  The CAL is really great if you need -or- don't mind a closed headphone - I've personally not tried them with surround software, but I still feel they position well in some well-suited games alone.  I got my brother a pair and he loves them so far (slowly easing him to the dark side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) and I can say they are quite enjoyable in games like BF3.  MLE's review of them is accurate from my experience.


----------



## autoteleology

Seconded on the CAL! recommendation.


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





modulor said:


> Check out the *CAL (Creative Aurvana Live!),* it's by far the best bang for your buck out there for a gaming/musicality combo and they're right around your price range.  The AD700 is going to be a bit more sterile sounding and I'd only recommend them for serious competitive gaming and if you are using 3D virtualization software, but you can always use EQ if they seem bass-light I suppose - the CAL is pretty warm.  The AD700 will have the benefits of open headphones with a wider soundstage and more air.  The CAL is really great if you need -or- don't mind a closed headphone - I've personally not tried them with surround software, but I still feel they position well in some well-suited games alone.  I got my brother a pair and he loves them so far (slowly easing him to the dark side
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  I agree CAL is awesome. Strap some HM5 pads on there if you have bigger ears and you have one of the lightest most comfortable under 100 phones around. 
  I would add Koss KSC75, Portapros with clips, or Samson SR80/Superlux 668b to your list as well.


----------



## jincuteguy

hailin said:


> I agree CAL is awesome. Strap some HM5 pads on there if you have bigger ears and you have one of the lightest most comfortable under 100 phones around.
> I would add Koss KSC75, Portapros with clips, or Samson SR80/Superlux 668b to your list as well.




What are HM5 pads that u're talking about? Are they velour?


----------



## jincuteguy

ethan7000 said:


> I really don't use the 990's for anything since getting the X1. They are awesome for immersive gaming and music. Lately I've been listening to a lot of modern jazz (aggressive bass and drums) and dubstep, both of which sound great. For classical, I prefer my Sennheisers, for a more natural and neutral sound, so it can depend on what you like to listen to. The SB Z puts out a really nice clear sound and has some great processing available. Really, I don't think you can go wrong with the Z + X1.




Damn, so you been using the X1 over the 990 since u got the X1? The X1 is really that good over the 990 Pro?


----------



## daleb

The X1s are absolutely amazing!


----------



## Hailin

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> What are HM5 pads that u're talking about? Are they velour?


 
http://www.mp4nation.net/brainwavz-earphones/brainwavz-hm5-spare-earpad-1pc
   
  Nope not velour.


----------



## kman1211

I really think the Sony MDR-MA900 needs to be added to this review. They are phenomenal for gaming, their soundstage is incredible and very 3D sounding. I honestly think their soundstage is quite a bit better than the Q701s and HD 598s, both of which can sound a bit congested and 2D in comparison.


----------



## benbenkr

Actually the velour pads on the X1 (or almost every other headphones with velour) will last quite a while if you know how to take take care of them. For one, they're not gonna go unusable in just a year like most pleather pads would.
   
  1) Don't wear them if you're sweating or your hair is wet, this is pretty much duh.
  2) If you want to wipe the dust off the pads, use a lint roller.
  3) Don't try and peel a speck of dust off with your nail, USE a lint roller!
   
  Really, I've got a HD555 from nearly 5 years ago and the velour pads on them are still fine. No tearings, no holes.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> Damn, so you been using the X1 over the 990 since u got the X1? The X1 is really that good over the 990 Pro?


 
  I can't say it's a massive difference, but I would say it's worth the price premium for sure.  Looks better, more comfortable (to me at least), sounds better.  The 990 Pro has a stronger clamp too, which I don't enjoy.  What I really notice is that I can get more sub bass (30Hz) out of the X1's and the treble isn't biting like the 990's.  Put simply, there's not really a reason to put the 990's on since they're similar to the X1's, but inferior in some aspects. From what I've experienced, MLE's reviews are pretty much right on for both cans.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> Actually the velour pads on the X1 (or almost every other headphones with velour) will last quite a while if you know how to take take care of them. For one, they're not gonna go unusable in just a year like most pleather pads would.
> 
> 1) Don't wear them if you're sweating or your hair is wet, this is pretty much duh.
> 2) If you want to wipe the dust off the pads, use a lint roller.
> ...


 
  Good advice.  I actually just cleaned some old velour pads today with a rag with some texture and a little warm water - worked really well!


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





> they're not gonna go unusable in just a year like most pleather pads would.


 
  Wait, really? My 280s are more usable now then where 2 years ago.


----------



## NoodleBoy91

So hearing about the x1 how would they compare to the
 beyerdynamic t90? If anyone has heard both It would be good to get a comparison in sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kman1211 said:


> I really think the Sony MDR-MA900 needs to be added to this review. They are phenomenal for gaming, their soundstage is incredible and very 3D sounding. I honestly think their soundstage is quite a bit better than the Q701s and HD 598s, both of which can sound a bit congested and 2D in comparison.




Lend them to me and I will.


----------



## chicolom

I haven't seen that many T90 impressions/owners.

I still want to audition the MA900...


----------



## jincuteguy

kman1211 said:


> I really think the Sony MDR-MA900 needs to be added to this review. They are phenomenal for gaming, their soundstage is incredible and very 3D sounding. I honestly think their soundstage is quite a bit better than the Q701s and HD 598s, both of which can sound a bit congested and 2D in comparison.




But what about the bass on the Sony MDR-MA900? Can it compete with the X1 or the DT 990?


----------



## kman1211

I haven't seen much on the T90 either, would be nice to hear it sometime.

Depends on what you are looking for, in terms of impact and prominence, not really. It does have a nice rumble and prominence to its bass though, it is not bass shy by any means and it's bigger sounding in the bass just not as prominent and impactful as the DT 990 pros bass, i havent heard the X1s before. The MA900 has a very big sound and a bass unlike any I have heard on a headphone, which is probably due to the 70mm angled drivers. The bass reminds me more of bass from a speaker than a headphone. It has a very speaker like presentation, they may be the most speaker like headphone I have heard.


----------



## miceblue

I didn't like the T90. I just tried it at a local meet with the Woo Audio WA7. The treble is pretty elevated and somewhat tizzy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> I didn't like the T90. I just tried it at a local meet with the Woo Audio WA7. The treble is pretty elevated and somewhat tizzy.




Concurrent to what I've heard about the T90s and the Beyer Teslas in general, which is why I have no desire in hearing any of them.


----------



## jincuteguy

What about the Sony MDR - R1? anyone tried this? Im guessing for gaming, only the X1, 990 Pro, and maybe MA900 are the only oneswith good bass and good sound stage for surround sound?


----------



## cheuh

Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> I really think the Sony MDR-MA900 needs to be added to this review. They are phenomenal for gaming, their soundstage is incredible and very 3D sounding. I honestly think their soundstage is quite a bit *better than the Q701s and HD 598s, both of which can sound a bit congested and 2D in comparison.*


 
   
  Are they really better than the Q701's for competitive gaming? Did you A/B compare them or is that based off memory?


----------



## Zalbik

I scored the Philips Fidelio X1 headphones a week ago for $237 from Sonicelectronix (they had a coupon code up when I order that took off $12 from their normal price). This is my first set of killer headphones ever and I am shocked each time I use. The sound is simply incredible. Prior to this I had only used Turtle Beach headphones and all I can say is the ones I had from TB were crap compared to these. I have the X1 hooked up to a Mixamp and I cannot believe the sounds I have been missing on my PS3 and 360. They also feel great when I wear them with my glasses.
   
  I am a believer in the X1.


----------



## kman1211

That's a bit of a shame, I would love for Beyer to release an open-back that isn't overly elevated in the treble. I did like the T1 when I heard it but I agree it's a bit bright and tizzy, wouldnt be a headphone I would buy, I cant handle elevated treble for extended periods of time. The T1 was less bright than the HD 800 for me though, which I found rather unpleasant, it didn't sound harsh but it was quite bright and splashy sounding and some reason it gave me ear fatigue in a short amount of time. 

I may consider loaning my MA900s out but it will be a while if I do as I'm kind of moving around a good deal until school starts up again.


----------



## kman1211

I can't say for sure on the Q701 yet, I am going off memory on them sadly. I could be wrong though. I always had a little trouble truly grasping the Q701s soundstage and imaging properly while with the MA900 I never did. I will be able to compare them properly when i can borrow my friends Q701. I did hear the MA900 vs HD 598 though.


----------



## Black Leg

Got Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro few days back, please can you suggest some good amps for it.
  And how can I get surround sound experience with it, currently I am using Razer Surround for now.


----------



## pietcux

You might want to check this thread:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
   
  MLE's thread is mainly for console gamers.


----------



## Black Leg

thanks for suggestion pietcux


----------



## NoodleBoy91

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Concurrent to what I've heard about the T90s and the Beyer Teslas in general, which is why I have no desire in hearing any of them.


 

 Oh no.. i was almost convinced on buying the t90's  now after reading around a bit more maybe not.. the reviews seem mixed.. some people really love it while others hate it.. maybe i neet to hear it myself..


----------



## pietcux

jincuteguy said:


> What about the Sony MDR - R1? anyone tried this? Im guessing for gaming, only the X1, 990 Pro, and maybe MA900 are the only oneswith good bass and good sound stage for surround sound?



The MDR-R1 is ok, but nothing special. I had it for some moth last year and it got soon more or less unused. Sold it with a substantial loss and don't miss it. The build quality and the comfort are on the good side though. They sounded very mid centric to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, trebly headphones don't bother me, but I'm over that phase. So while I love Beyers, they're just not what I look for in sound anymore.


----------



## Kromatic

Hi Mad Lust,
   
  Thanks for all the great tips and info! Your thread is so useful. I'm a PC gamer and I play alot of competitive FPS games. I've decided to get a pair of Audio-Technica AD700X. Not alot of reviews out yet for this update on the AD700. I'm hoping I don't have any comfort issues. Just gonna have to try them out. I'm going to be feeding them from an ASUS Xonar DGX card and will definitely be using Dolby Headphone for some virtual surround positioning.
   
  Kromatic


----------



## Evshrug

Kromatic,
I used an AD700 for three years, definitely a special headphone with great value. The downside is poor bass extension, so it sounds fairly lean, but the pluses are accurate, out-of-your-head soundstaging that is one of the best with virtual surround, light weight and low fatigue, and easy clarity to pick up on tactical details while gaming. I actually think it responds well to EQ, I used the bass-boost function with my Recon3D and was really impressed playing Metro: 2033, the scene where the anomaly rumbles past actually seemed bassy and powerful.

I would recommend not being afraid to bend the headband (3 places, in at the center then out flatter at 1/3rds areas) so that the ear cups sit more flush with your head (too wide at stock for most European heads), and maybe trying a hair-tie or medium sized rubber band between the "wings" to increase clamping force. They don't require as much special expensive amping as other headphones.

I think you will be quite impressed.


----------



## Vader2k

So it only took me forever, but I finally put up my thread about Marantz receivers with Dolby Headphone processing.  I hope it's useful for anyone looking at going the AVR route for DH.
   
Brief Guide to Marantz AV Receivers with Dolby Headphone & HDMI


----------



## firefly89

With the dss/mix amp, do you have to feed it a Dolby digital (true surround signal) for it to process to Dolby headphone, or can it do it from a stereo source
Because surely optical can only output coded Dolby digital or 2 channel lpcm, so although consoles code output to Dolby digital it wouldn't work on pc unless you're running with Dolby digital live?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has to be from a true dolby digital signal. There is no way to get proper dolby headphone otherwise. You'll get either a prologic ii version of DH, or just stereo with a bunch of reverb and no advantage whatsoever.


----------



## firefly89

thanks MLE
   
  so- on console it outputs Dolby digital, so works fine with the DSS/Mix amp, but on PC you'd need dolby digital live over optical? Or something that had 3 sets of analogue inputs? 
   
  I play FPS mostly on ps3, PC and mac (use a mac for work stuff), and trying to get something to work over all 3 platforms. Got the xonar u3 working well on windows with dolby headphone, but doesn't work on console or mac- so might get the earforce dss to use with ps3 and also return the xonar u3 and use optical out on the computer to go to DSS (but would need a soundcard with DDL right, so would have to keep xonar? meaning the DSS would be useless for PC use), I think there's no hope for DH on mac as there's nothing than can output DDL (dolby digital live) in game, although I do get 6 channel discrete over HDMI to my AV receiver, so maybe if I use an av receiver with DH support (marrantz?) that would give dolby headphone on everything that was connected- so 6 channel LPCM over HDMI from macbook pro, optical coded with DDL from PC, and optical with DD from ps3. Neatest solution, but most expensive and i'm happy with my current amp
   
   
  also thinking of upgrading my headphones, they're pretty crappy- so not sure if it's worth upgrading headphones first (senn 558 modded) or getting DH first and upgrading later.
   
  I never use the mic, so I think it would be better to get good headphones with a seperate DH converter, rather than a headset- but if there was a good headset on the market with built in dolby headphone I could go for that, wireless would be real nice too, there are some newer sennheisers, and the turtle beach but I don't think they will work with mac? (FWIW I only really play CS:GO on mac so it's not a deal breaker but it would be nice, as long as I can actually get sound from them on the mac i'd be happy)
   
   
  just want the best bang for my buck, and don't want to waste money
  your guide is excellent btw, so helpful


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​The Xonar U3's software program has a setting to change the spdif/optical out to send out an untouched dolby digital signal to the DSS. Thats how it would work with the DSS. However, why, when the U3 does the same thing? Use the DSS for non PC use.

I think the 558 is a solid headphone. I really like it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> It has to be from a true dolby digital signal. There is no way to get proper dolby headphone otherwise. You'll get either a prologic ii version of DH, or just stereo with a bunch of reverb and no advantage whatsoever.




You sure about this? Dolby's site doesn't make it sound like that. Also, what about the JVC DH device with DTS? I've listened to a channel check encoded in 5.1 pcm and 5.1 DD, and I'll check again, but I thought they sounded identical with DH enabled.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats because dts was converted to dolby before processing and then to DH. The Marantz receivers did the same. Dolby headphone is just that, a dolby encoder for headphones. This is why devices like the Mixamp and DSS will never do proper surround unless its a DD signal. In the case of the PS3 bitstream mix option, I assume the PS3 internally changes DTS to Dolby Digital, or there is a hidden Dolby container in the audio file that you cant access other than through special situations. That is why blu-rays encoded in DTS can go to Dolby Headphone... ONLY in Bitstream mix, and not Bitstream direct, while the rare Dolby enabked blu-ray can do DH regardless of bitstream setting (I.e. G.I. Joe Retaliation). In the case if the JVC Su-Dh1, they sound identical probably because DTS was converted to Dolby format. That is why there is no sq difference.

It makes sense for Dolby to have some form of method to convert DTS into DD, because if DTS directly into Dolby Headphone was possible, there wouldn't be any reason why things like the Mixamp couldn't do it. 



Unless the encoder gets a DD signal, youre just gonna get upmixed stereo or nothing at all.

What needs to be done is that all devices should have whatever hardware is allowing it to convert DTS into a file that Dolby Headphone can read.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for 5.1 pcm vs 5.1dd, I'm betting 100% its because that 5.1pcm signal is getting converted to Dolby for the device to read, and varies by device (receivers may, other devices like the Mixamp won't).

If you try that on external devices like the Mixamp, and Recond 3d usb, the pcm signal won't go into proper DH. Quote me on that. Somewhere in their manuals, it states it must be set to DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 for them to get DH.


----------



## burritoboy9984

I was more just referring to your first post where it stated it had to come from a Dolby Digital signal. I understand that an optical cable (which the Mixamp and DSS use) can't support more than 2 channel PCM. Also, I found this link as well. Look at number 5, not saying it is true, but I would like to think they know what they are talking about with their marketing.
   
  Perhaps we should just email Dolby to find out for sure.
   
  -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, optical cables can take in 5 channels, IIRC.

And like I figured, DH can be done once a signal has gone back to PCM, but what's not said, is that a raw PCM file won't be proper DH. Unless the device supports it (converting PCM to DD, more than likely), PCM audio files are not gonna be real Dolby Headphone. You can try that with any source. Try that with the Mixamp, DSS, Recond 3D. PCM simply will not convert into DH. IT MUST BE DOLBY DIGITAL, unless the source converts internally.

What I believe is happening when PCM DOES work, is that the raw PCM file gets converted into Dolby Digital first, then into DH. But again, only some devices do that, like older Marantz receivers.

Like that link mentioned as well, some 2 channel audio will convert into a lower tier Dolby Headphone (Nintendo Wii plays in this ghetto DH because the Wii has a Pro Logic II option). Usually what happens when a Dolby Digital signal is sent through an RCA connection (thus making it send Pro Logic II instead, which is embedded in DD signals, FWIR). However, IT MUST be taken from DPLII. A basic stereo signal will not work, which is when you get the nonsense up sampled stereo.


----------



## Chubtoad

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/31/xbox-one-headset-adapter-confirmed-by-microsoft
   
  We should be happy that they will at least provide an adapter for us to use our current headphones, however I still think it should be included in the box!
   
   
  BTW is there anybody else getting both consoles at launch? I currently have both on pre-order


----------



## autoteleology

I have a PC. I have no need for (additional) machines.


----------



## pervysage

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/31/xbox-one-headset-adapter-confirmed-by-microsoft
> 
> We should be happy that they will at least provide an adapter for us to use our current headphones, however I still think it should be included in the box!
> 
> ...


 
   
  I was just about to post about this.
   
  Great news. Which means now it will simply just be Xbox One Controller > Adapter > Old Mic port on the good ole' Astro Mixamp... no need for a whole new Mixamp.
   
  As long as the adapter is reasonably priced, I don't mind it being sold separately.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





firefly89 said:


> With the dss/mix amp, do you have to feed it a Dolby digital (true surround signal) for it to process to Dolby headphone, or can it do it from a stereo source
> Because surely optical can only output coded Dolby digital or 2 channel lpcm, so although consoles code output to Dolby digital it wouldn't work on pc unless you're running with Dolby digital live?


 
  Correct - you need dolby digital live output on PC for DH to work on the dss


----------



## firefly89

good job I realised this before sending the  xonar back for the DSS
   
  will keep xonar, and get DSS for ps3 use


----------



## Chubtoad

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> I have a PC. I have no need for (additional) machines.


 
  I have a decent PC too. I5-3570k with a GTX 670, 8GB ram etc etc.
   
  But it doesn't play Sony/Nintendo exclusives, and doesn't play certain Microsoft/Console Exclusives.
   
   
  and yeah I'm glad that Astro won't have to make a new mixamp specifically for the Xbox 1, but they probably will make one anyways hah
   
  far as I can tell nothing should change between ps3/ps4. At least nothing that has been announced.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What I believe is happening when PCM DOES work, is that the raw PCM file gets converted into Dolby Digital first, then into DH. But again, only some devices do that, like older Marantz receivers.


 
  so in theory, with an 'older' marantz amp- I could output HDMI 6 channel PCM, or 6 channel analogue, and get dolby headphone working, on a mac. In movies with DD already, and if the amp has built in DDL coding, then multi channel games and multi channel movie files will also be converted into true DD, and then into true DH
   
  if so, that would be great


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





chubtoad said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Sure it can...via emulator!


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Sure it can...via emulator!


 

 Yeah, but there's at least a 10 year gap for every console Sony.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Umm, optical cables can take in 5 channels, IIRC.
> 
> And like I figured, DH can be done once a signal has gone back to PCM, but what's not said, is that a raw PCM file won't be proper DH. Unless the device supports it (converting PCM to DD, more than likely), PCM audio files are not gonna be real Dolby Headphone. You can try that with any source. Try that with the Mixamp, DSS, Recond 3D. PCM simply will not convert into DH. IT MUST BE DOLBY DIGITAL, unless the source converts internally.
> 
> ...


 
   
  The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth. Then, once the signal hits the decoder, each channel is decoded back into PCM, albeit not identical PCM due to said data loss. _It's at that point that Dolby Headphone is applied to the reconstructed PCM channels._
   
  HDMI obviously does not have this limitation, so I see absolutely no need for a Dolby Digital source conversion. Dolby Headphone would just apply the processing straight to the unchanged PCM channels. Any additional steps would be needlessly complicated and degrading on sound quality. And of course, it's not a bandwidth limitation for USB, PCI, and PCI-Express when talking about PC sound cards.
   
  It also wouldn't make much sense to decode a DTS signal into PCM, RE-encode it into AC-3/Dolby Digital, and then apply DH to that for the same reasons. Or, for that matter, neuter Dolby TrueHD and DTS-Master Audio tracks on Blu-ray movies into their cut-down versions before applying DH. It's just not logical, especially considering that if the C-Media chipset sound cards are any indication, DH does support full 7.1 if it can get a full 7.1 signal to work with.
   
  The important part you want to drive home isn't whether the signal is encoded in PCM or DD, *but whether or not the signal is stereo or surround.* As you mentioned with Dolby Pro Logic II, that's a case of matrixed surround that can be carried over two analog channels and decoded with the right processor, but could easily be mistaken for stereo otherwise, especially since a receiver or headphone surround processor can't detect PL2 encoding like it can DD or DTS. And as for PCM, it's only cut down to stereo with S/PDIF.


----------



## burritoboy9984

namelesspfg said:


> The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth. Then, once the signal hits the decoder, each channel is decoded back into PCM, albeit not identical PCM due to said data loss. _It's at that point that Dolby Headphone is applied to the reconstructed PCM channels._
> 
> HDMI obviously does not have this limitation, so I see absolutely no need for a Dolby Digital source conversion. Dolby Headphone would just apply the processing straight to the unchanged PCM channels. Any additional steps would be needlessly complicated and degrading on sound quality. And of course, it's not a bandwidth limitation for USB, PCI, and PCI-Express when talking about PC sound cards.
> 
> ...




Thanks Nameless, that is how I was gathering it worked as well.

-Erik


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone knows if the Sony MDR-1R worth the $200 p rice on amazon? And is it good for gaming compare to the Dt 990 Pro ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a closed headphone, while the 990 pro is open. If there is anything to be learned, is that closed headphones almost always don't compare to open headphones for gaming use or otherwise.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> The ONLY reason S/PDIF cables can handle more than two channels of audio is because the extra channels require lossy compression. That's how Dolby Digital/AC-3 and DTS work in the first place; they throw away data from the PCM channels in order to get them to fit into limited S/PDIF bandwidth.


 
   
2 channels (stereo) of 24-bit@96Khz (optical) is roughly 4,5mbit or let's say 4500kbps. AC3 should be around 448-640kbps, DTS 768-1536kbps. SPDIF isn't really limited, it just sucks (for the industry) for copy protection and general content encryption. That's why we'll never see any improvement in this regard.


----------



## pervysage

Apparently Astro A50's are garbage lol.
   
  Was playing BO2 with my friend and he's asking me how I'm hearing all these footsteps when he can't hear a thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Said it... it's not that great a headphone. A40 is considerably better, and the PLYR1 shows how wireless headsets should be. The PLYR1 should be a top priority for anyone who wants a wireless headset.

Not a fan of the A50.


----------



## jincuteguy

pervysage said:


> Apparently Astro A50's are garbage lol.
> 
> Was playing BO2 with my friend and he's asking me how I'm hearing all these footsteps when he can't hear a thing.




So your friend is using the Astro A50 headset, and you are using?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lookie what I got in the mail...

Nuforce HP-800. 

Before I say anything, two stock cables.

Braided: 0.9ohm. So nice looking, but resistance is higher than the ones I'm using.

Thin short cable: 0.6ohm

And here I thought I found a good cable for my X1. No luck.

Intial impressions: bassy, very warm, soft, mids are noticeably recessed. This is just off a few songs.

These are definitely for clubheads.


----------



## ethan7000

New review incoming!


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It's a closed headphone, while the 990 pro is open. If there is anything to be learned, is that closed headphones almost always don't compare to open headphones for gaming use or otherwise.


 
  Unless you use the TH-600 for gaming, which would fall under the "almost" category and render this statement "almost" false.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yet, you're talking about a $1000 headphone. And Fostex Denons and their successors are known for their large soundstage, despite their mostly closed back design. Everyone knows that they dont isolate that well and should be taken as somewhat open. They are a rare breed, and don't fall in line with how true closed back headphones really do for gaming.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yet, you're talking about a $1000 headphone. And Fostex Denons and their successors are known for their large soundstage, despite their mostly closed back design. Everyone knows that they dont isolate that well and should be taken as somewhat open. They are a rare breed, and don't fall in line with how true closed back headphones really do for gaming.


 
  I know, you need to snag a pair and see how they compare to the D7000.


----------



## daleb

Edit: nevermind XD


----------



## jincuteguy

So the Best gaming headphone in the $0 - $300 price range is the Philip X1 I guess?


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> So the Best gaming headphone in the $0 - $300 price range is the Philip X1 I guess?


 

 The X1s are amazing!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> So the Best gaming headphone in the $0 - $300 price range is the Philip X1 I guess?




It's a great choice. Probably the safest, as long as you like some emphasized bass. The bass can be from sweet, to a bit overpowering depending on the frequency.


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





jincuteguy said:


> So the Best gaming headphone in the $0 - $300 price range is the Philip X1 I guess?


 
  They are my hands down favorite from all I have tried in their price range.


----------



## Change is Good

I personally think a safer bet would be the new flat headband K702 and order some memory foam pads from AKG. It all depends, however, on what your sound preference is.
   
  For under $300 the X1 and K702/Q701 with memory pads are my top two recommendations for gaming...


----------



## mpawluk91

I need to find an external dac that does virtual 5.1 or 7.1

Kind of like how astro has the mix amp and turtle beach has the dss, but if I were to buy one of those I would have to double amp it because I play games with my arrow 4g

I'm gonna hook the sound processor up to my ps3 via optical cable and then run my arrow 4g from that to my ue 6000, (it'll be awesome for battlefield 3)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There are none, that anyone knows of. You're stuck with something like the Mixamp. You could score an older marantz receiver which is a good source and powerful-ish internal amp also with Dolby headphone.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about the HP-800. It's like dark. DARK. Like even darker than 650/Mad Dogs dark. The bass, while strong isn't overwhelming, but the mids are distant, and treble is pretty soft...

Gonna have to wait for my E12 to come in... running unamped right now, though these are stupid easy to drive. 30mw max input power. That's like NOTHING.


----------



## mpawluk91

mad lust envy said:


> There are none, that anyone knows of. You're stuck with something like the Mixamp. You could score an older marantz receiver which is a good source and powerful-ish internal amp also with Dolby headphone.
> 
> Hmm, not sure how I feel about the HP-800. It's like dark. DARK. Like even darker than 650/Mad Dogs dark. The bass, while strong isn't overwhelming, but the mids are distant, and treble is pretty soft...
> 
> Gonna have to wait for my E12 to come in... running unamped right now, though these are stupid easy to drive. 30mw max input power. That's like NOTHING.


What do you think about double amping the mix amp? No need probably


----------



## daleb

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> What do you think about double amping the mix amp? No need probably


 
  The mixamp isn't really much of an amp at all. The main use for it is Dolby. If you're getting a high end headphone, you usually need a secondary amp to use it at its full potential.


----------



## mpawluk91

Damn I can't believe it, either I'm a genius or sol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I've been saying to do for ages. Even on the first post of the guide...

I'm really thinking people don't read it.


----------



## autoteleology

I don't know why someone doesn't just make a small, portable Dolby Headphone effects box that doesn't interfere with the signal elsewhere. I really dislike the Mixamp's inline amp.


----------



## mpawluk91

My ue 6000 is 50 ohms and the cable has an inline mic 

If I plugged it into the headphone jack of the mixamp would I have microphone support?

also does the mixamp have enough juice to power 50 ohms?

Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mpawluk91 said:


> My ue 6000 is 50 ohms and the cable has an inline mic
> 
> If I plugged it into the headphone jack of the mixamp would I have microphone support?
> 
> ...




Ohm level is not a number to go by how hard a headphone is to drive. You have a 250ohm beyerdynamic that is nowhere near as hard to drive as the 38ohm HE-4 (which demands a specialized or super powerful amp to get going), or AKg K70x line with is around 60ohm and need a good chunk of power to get going as well. That being said, I'm sure the UE6000 is designed with ipods and iphones in mind, meaning it will be highly sensitive/easy to drive.

The Mixamp should be fine for chat. If not, you can buy an adapter that splits audio and chat, then use the y adapter that comes with the Mixamp to join them back into one port. I'm positive you won't need to though.


----------



## mpawluk91

Sounds like I'm getting a mixamp then, I do not like the astro headphones though


----------



## Change is Good

MLE, since you're getting the E12 soon will you be adding a review for it in the amp section for good measure?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, though I can't test how much more volume the E12 raises over the Mixamp for harder to drive cans (since I only have very easy to drive cans), I MIGHT.

On the Nuforce HP-800: I'm absolutely surprised by how good these are for gaming through Dolby Headphone. Very good soundstage for a closed headphone, and the fact that the mids up to the treble is relatively linear, make the HP800 a very good sound signature for gaming. Color me surprised.

They are quite dark, and it may initially put you off, but once you adjust, there really isn't anything missing. Not the most detailed headphone, and while the bass is big, it's actually pretty good bass, it doesn't force itself over the mids. So all in all, you get QUITE a competent closed headphone for all around use, assuming you get over their darkness.

I'm surprised at how incredibly well it keeps noise from leaking out. This would easily pass the 'girlfriend is sleeping next to me' test. It doesn't isolate that well (marginally better than the CAL at keeping external noise out), but in terms of not bothering anyone else, these are a huge win.

I have much, much more testing to do with them.

It's crazy. Not crazy about them for music, but for fun and competitive gaming, these are very good, in terms of closed headphones.

Upon today's testing, I'm feeling a 7.5fun, 7 competitive, 6.75 for comfort (this score for comfort is personal. I think those without an aversion for pleather or with smaller heads may find them quite comfy) as incredibly early scoring. Of course, this can change.


----------



## Sidiun

Having a lot of trouble with deciding what headphones to get at the moment. The highest I'm willing to pay for an amp/DAC is less than £60 ($100), so the Fiio E10 is the best I can probably get (would the E10 be able to drive all the headphones listed below?). I was trying to decide between the M50 and DT770s, but after viewing this thread you've made my dilemma much harder  - I'm coming from a pair of broken Sennheiser HD555s, which I found to be flimsy (I've had two pairs, and they've both broken the same way, with a crack near the ears holding them together) so I'd like something sturdier than them, and possibly somewhat less boring, good for various games and music/movies etc.
   
  Here are the prices of various headphones I've narrowed it down to in my local currency:
   
   Fidelio X1 - £270 ($412)
  Q701 - £230 ($351)
  K702 - £215 ($328)
  K701 - £200 ($305)
  DT770 - £130 ($198)
  DT990 - £120 ($183)
  ATH-M50 - £90 ($137)
  Creative Aurana Live - £53 ($81)
  Sony MDR-V6 - £49 ($76)

   
*The Fidelio X1 sounds really great from your review, but do you really think it's worth more than twice the price of the DT990*? You obviously have a lot more disposable income than me, so keep that in mind.
   
  Another question: you only review the K702 'annie' from what I can see, which is too expensive for my liking ($600!). *How much worse do you think the regular K702 is*? I know you specify the improvements it makes over it, but, like, the annie is 5th on your 'all-arounder' rankings - how much lower do you think the K702 would be on that list, if it was on there at all?
   
  Thanks.
   
  edit: As for importing, well, I'd have to pay import taxes, shipping and a 20% Value Added Tax (living in Europe is fun!) so it'd only be marginally cheaper or the same price, I'd imagine.


----------



## Skipshrike

The Fidelio X1 has been a purchase I am very pleased with. After lurking on this thread until the X1's review, and then reading various other reviews/user-experiences, I pulled the trigger.
   
  Setup-
  PC - Creative Sound Blaster Z
  Consoles - Astro Mixamp 2011
   
  This headphone delivers a soundstage that causes me to actually look away from the screen to see if the sound sourceis next to me! The bass is tasteful enough to provide a fun listening experience while not obscuring everything else.  I was very pleased that I did not have to purchase additional amps/DAC's for this headphone. Granted both the sources I use (soundcard and mixamp) are amps.
   
  BF3 is a bit overwhelming to me now because the sound immersion level is much higher than my previous SteelSeries Siberia V2's. The V2's did an excellent job, but were light on the bass without providing the directional clarity I prefer. In L4D2 I can now shoot through trees/walls to nail those pesky boomers with ease.  I highly recommend the X1's because they require minimal extra stuff while producing a great experience for games/music/movies.
   
  Two questions:
  1) I'm using the KOSS vc20 volume control because the sound coming out of my computer is extremely loud without the ability to lower the volume (I have the in system volume around 30). Does the use of a volume control lessen the quality of sound? I've tried listening to music with/without and have heard to significant difference.
   
  2) Has anyone used the V-MODA Boom Mic with a higher-end headset? I was considering that to replace the mic I lost when I put the V2's away.
   
  This thread has a LOT of knowledge in it. Great work to MLE and everyone.


----------



## ethan7000

sidiun said:


> Having a lot of trouble with deciding what headphones to get at the moment. The highest I'm willing to pay for an amp/DAC is less than £60 ($100), so the Fiio E10 is the best I can probably get (would the E10 be able to drive all the headphones listed below?). I was trying to decide between the M50 and DT770s, but after viewing this thread you've made my dilemma much harder  - I'm coming from a pair of broken Sennheiser HD555s, which I found to be flimsy (I've had two pairs, and they've both broken the same way, with a crack near the ears holding them together) so I'd like something sturdier than them, and possibly somewhat less boring, good for various games and music/movies etc.
> 
> Here are the prices of various headphones I've narrowed it down to in my local currency:
> 
> ...



The X1 is only $250 on Amazon in the States, anyway you can get it that way? It's well worth that price even with another $30 or so with International shipping.


----------



## ethan7000

skipshrike said:


> The Fidelio X1 has been a purchase I am very pleased with. After lurking on this thread until the X1's review, and then reading various other reviews/user-experiences, I pulled the trigger.
> 
> Setup-
> PC - Creative Sound Blaster Z
> ...



Most likely the Koss is lowering the quality of your audio, but is probably fine for gaming. For music, you'll have better results coming directly out of the Z. No idea on the mic, but have you tried the one that comes with the Z?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





skipshrike said:


> 1) I'm using the KOSS vc20 volume control because the sound coming out of my computer is extremely loud without the ability to lower the volume (I have the in system volume around 30)*. Does the use of a volume control lessen the quality of sound?* I've tried listening to music with/without and have heard to significant difference.


 
   
   
  A little bit.  I tried one with my AD700 and I discovered that it was collapsing the soundstage and rolling off the highs.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Skipshrike said:
			
		

> 2) Has anyone used the V-MODA Boom Mic with a higher-end headset? I was considering that to replace the mic I lost when I put the V2's away.




Boom Mic + X1 + Mixamp = MMOOONNNEEEYYY

-Erik


----------



## Skipshrike

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Most likely the Koss is lowering the quality of your audio, but is probably fine for gaming. For music, you'll have better results coming directly out of the Z. No idea on the mic, but have you tried the one that comes with the Z?


 
  I had forgotten about the mic that came with the Z. I'll give that a try and see if the sound is acceptable to others as I play.
   
  For the Z itself, I just slapped on the profile for 'First Person Shooter' and then tweaked the sliders around. For BF3 I placed the sound option to Hi-Fi and turned on the stereo enhancement. It's too bad I can't use the Dolby Digital Live as that only goes through the SPDIF-Out.


----------



## Skipshrike

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> A little bit.  I tried one with my AD700 and I discovered that it was collapsing the soundstage and rolling off the highs.


 
  Might the V-MODA be made out of superior bits and not dampen the soundstage as much? Without the inline volume control something makes my computer volume crazy loud, even at a system setting of 6.


----------



## davidsh

In europe you can get the x1 below 200€ easily. Don't see why one would have to pay 270£


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, though I can't test how much more volume the E12 raises over the Mixamp for harder to drive cans (since I only have very easy to drive cans), I MIGHT.


 
   
  If you need to, I can lend you one of my cans to test it's power. Just let me know...


----------



## timnswede

Has anyone used the Sennheiser 350se and 360? I'm kind of leaning towards the 350se since they're closed, but I also don't want to give up audio quality "/. Is the 350se's audio quality comparable to the 360?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Going from closed to open is a revelation in it of itself. Even if they had the same specs, the open headphone will trump the closed one. Just off my experiences. You can't compare closed to open. Ever. Open wins in everything but bass presence and isolation.


----------



## timnswede

Thanks for the quick reply, having a hard time trying to decide whether isolation is worth it  I have Siberia V2s right now, so either option would be a pretty big upgrade. I guess I will have to sleep on it.


----------



## Sidiun

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> In europe you can get the x1 below 200€ easily. Don't see why one would have to pay 270£


 
  You say that, of course, without providing any links. Where would I buy it for below 200 euros? I'd really appreciate you finding the cheapest place to get them.
   
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-Fidelio-X1-00-Headphones/dp/B008ZW2T7M
  That is the norm, or perhaps even cheaper than the norm. Can't find it cheaper anywhere else, even on eBay etc. 
   
  @Mad Lust Envy - any advice in regards to my last post?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Advice ? On what to get? My vote is for the X1. It's the best all rounder for my needs.


----------



## Sidiun

Seems that way, mainly just the boldened questions that are confounding me at the moment:
   
   
  Quote:


> Fidelio X1 - £270 ($412)
> Q701 - £230 ($351)
> K702 - £215 ($328)
> K701 - £200 ($305)
> ...


 
   
  Also, do you think that the E10 is the best amp/DAC below $100? Not sure if it would do a good job powering all the stuff I listed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Price to performance is subjective.

It does everything that the 990 pro does, but better. So yes, to me, it's worth the jump from the 990 Pro's price to the X1. 

The standard K702 is a great headphone. I like the Annie because it has a warmer, fuller, more bassy sound. It's not that one is worse than the other. It's a different tonality based on the same sound. So you choose what you want more: A warm, rich, fuller sound, or a more analytical, and more spacious sound.

I have no heard the E10, but for music use, it should be fine for the X1, not the AKGs. The K70x demands and deserves a lot more power.


----------



## davidsh

Have seen the x1 for 170€ on amazon.de


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I really wanna try the new Momentum on-ear. Alcantara (velour-ish) pads, sleek design, and apparently bassy/v-shaped. For a portable, just what I'd like.


----------



## Sidiun

Alright, thanks guys. I've decided to get the Fidelio X-1. 
   
  My only question is, what would be the best amp/DAC/whatever to get for all-around gaming (so I guess the e10 is out? Stereo would be bad?) as well as general music/movies etc for less than $100 or so?
   
  Would a sound card like the Xonar DG be my best bet? I'd rather not have to fiddle about installing it, so if there are better external options I'd prefer those, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea v-shaped is what im reading about the momentum on ear too. Apparently it is similar but inferior to the amperior and hd 25, though. I've had the Amperior before (bought refurbished) and was impressed with it... but as time passed i learned v-shaped wasnt my thing.


----------



## chicolom

sidiun said:


> Alright, thanks guys. I've decided to get the Fidelio X-1.
> 
> My only question is, what would be the best amp/DAC/whatever to get for all-around gaming (so I guess the e10 is out? Stereo would be bad?) as well as general music/movies etc for less than $100 or so?
> 
> Would a sound card like the Xonar DG be my best bet? I'd rather not have to fiddle about installing it, so if there are better external options I'd prefer those, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to.


 Asus had two new external cards, the Xonar STU and U7 that might work.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Get the Mad Dogs (new ones). They seal amazingly well, are extremely comfy, and sound amazing. I'll be uodating my review of them to account for the differences.
> 
> Basically looking at an 8.75 fun, 7.25 competitive.
> 
> Looks like the last MD just didnt fit me right. That and it wasn't nearly as engaging as this one.


 
  Good to hear the new one is better, is it still very dark?
   
  Also Mad Lust... it is common knowledge that Open Back Cans are more neutral and accurate than closed ones correct? Some one tried to tell me that, a shure 940 has better treble extension that a Byer Dt 880 because the Shure was a closed back... I'm pretty sure that theory is uhh well wrong [proably a Shure 940  fan boi, don't know why I'm even asking u this xD] 
   
  Still, good to hear the new Md's are better than the old. Mad how would you compare the K550 to the Mad Dog in terms of Neutrality


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont have much experience with the K550, but I'm not one to be asked about it, because from what I've personally, I think it's a crappy headphone, no offense to anyone. 

As for open vs closed in neutrality... it has nothing to do with their enclosures. A driver can be tuned to be neutral regardless of what it's in.

As for the Mad Dogs in neutrality... hmm... they're very good, just tonally warm. Bass and mids are pretty linear.


----------



## Makiah S

I still want something like the Dt 880 but closed, and not the dt 770 variants... the HP Sound Magic has come up, and the Mad Dogs are always an option... but out of my previously Hifiman they where too warm... any suggestion Mad? [I love my w1000x but it's not portable] something around the $300 mark


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's tough. I'm really not a fan of closed headphones in general, which is why I'm so limited in my reviews of them, outside of headsets, for the most part. The Pro 900 is more like a closed DT990, not an 880. And yes, the Mad Dogs is quite warmer than the 880... have you tried looking into the Fischer FA-003 or Brainwavz HM5? Those two should be the same in all but name, and are known to be quite neutral...

Sorry I'm really not well versed in closed headphones.


----------



## Baby Face Tony

I found your review on the Koss KSC75 clip-ons and the Skullcandy's Slyr/Plyr pretty interesting, earlier in the review you mentioned they were on-ear headphones and then said they were over the ear with some adjusting; now what kind of adjusting was that?  Was it something that was initially designed in the headphones or some mod you did yourself?
   
  I'm comparing whether to get myself the KSC75, Slyr or Plyr 1/2 (depending which of the headsets is superior) on a PC for gaming, movies, music, etc.  I only have tried a handful of headphones ranging from ultimate ears, sony, jvc, turtlebeach and cheap walgreens stuff and so far been impressed with the JVC HA-NC250 the most because their built-in active noise canceller and amplifier.  My JVC are almost a decade old now and they don't sound anywhere as good as they were and I'm looking to replace them.  This time around I need a mic too, I can get the AntLion modmic or TekNMotion's Headsetter but I need some good combination for universal use (not necessarily hardcore gaming pin-point accuracy positioning headphones) but I really want to feel the music as much as I can without breaking the bank.
   
  I looked at those 3 headphones and think I'll prolly give them a shot to replace my JVC's; if you've used the JVC HA-NC250 do any of them have what it takes to replace it?  I'm currently using the integrated sound on my GA-P67A-UD3P-B3 mobo and I plan to get a sound card like the Xonar I keep hearing about in the future but my priorities first a headset (or headphone with modmic), then replace my faulty video card and then get sound card. Can any of those 3 headphones sound good enough without a soundcard and amplifier or are there better headsets out there under $100 that can outperform those 3 headphones even without an amplifier and a soundcard?


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> That's tough. I'm really not a fan of closed headphones in general, which is why I'm so limited in my reviews of them, outside of headsets, for the most part. The Pro 900 is more like a closed DT990, not an 880. And yes, the Mad Dogs is quite warmer than the 880... have you tried looking into the Fischer FA-003 or Brainwavz HM5? Those two should be the same in all but name, and are known to be quite neutral...
> 
> Sorry I'm really not well versed in closed headphones.


 
  Bah shame on you xD, still I heard you didn't like the K550 y not?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It sounded lifeless, cold, thin, and harsh. Nothing good about them, unless I pressed them to my head where warmth and bass kicked in. No one listens that way, so I consider them a lost cause. I heard they're very seal dependent, and I dunno what kind of fit they want, but it didn't sound great to me. I wasn't impressed with the A900x either. Both were somewhat similar to me. 



baby face tony said:


> I found your review on the Koss KSC75 clip-ons and the Skullcandy's Slyr/Plyr pretty interesting, earlier in the review you mentioned they were on-ear headphones and then said they were over the ear with some adjusting; now what kind of adjusting was that?  Was it something that was initially designed in the headphones or some mod you did yourself?




I basically put my fingers where my ears would go and stretch the walls outward, to allow more space. That and tucking your ears inside/sliding them under the pads instead of giving in and letting the pads rest on the ear.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It sounded lifeless, cold, thin, and harsh. Nothing good about them, unless I pressed them to my head where warmth and bass kicked in. No one listens that way, so I consider them a lost cause. I heard they're very seal dependent, and I dunno what kind of fit they want, but it didn't sound great to me. I wasn't impressed with the A900x either. Both were somewhat similar to me.
> I basically put my fingers where my ears would go and stretch the walls outward, to allow more space. That and tucking your ears inside/sliding them under the pads instead of giving in and letting the pads rest on the ear.


 
  You know what, that sounds a lot like the Ath w1000x, it sounded very dead and lifeless when I first got it. So the k550 must be super seal dependent like the w1000x 
   
  I might the K550 and see if I can't master that seal, btw on you Byers, Mad How many clicks on the head band do you need? Ppl complain about the seal of those cans, it seems they favor biggers heads... wondering if mine is big enough xD. 
   
  Hopefully it is, as I returned the Porta Pros because I was afraid of breaking them <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I basically wear the mid-fi Beyers fully extended, though I could get by a tight fit with a notch left.


----------



## zeroxevo

Hi Mad Lust Envy, 
   
  I am trying to set up my PC for better headphone experience (my time spent using the headphone is mainly for MMO gaming and movies/mp3. 
   
  I am currently running Soundblaster Z and Tactic3D Sigma (wired) and going towards a wireless setup. 
   
  I have Astro Mixamp 5.8 coming my way in about 10days and I am wondering which headphones would you recommend me to use?
   
  1) Beyerdynamics DT990 Pro 250ohm
  2) Philips Fidelio X1
   
  I can get a pair of DT990 for about US$150 there about pretty good price. I just do not know if the mixamp rx unit is able to power it, I do have a mini pocket amp Fiio E5 if it is of any help at all for my setup. The next most logical upgrade will be a portable amp like Fiio E17 or portable tube amps. 
   
  My question is if I would need to get the E17, would it be more sensible to get the X1 over the DT990 Pro? I end up paying about the same for getting E17 and the DT990. Of coz getting E17 would means more flexibility for my future applications like getting E9 dock for E17 and high quality headphones. 
   
  Hope you can comment. Cheers!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you get the X1, you won't need anything else to power it other than the Mixamp 5.8. That should be enough for gaming and movie use. The E5 will not help. Good rule of thumb is that just a few decibels of volume require more than double the power of whatever your current device has. So let's say for example, you're running max volume off your device, and want to gain a few more decibels... you will need a bit more than double the maximum power of your current device to gain an appreciable amount of volume. This is why the E5 is not good as a volume booster over whatever you may have.

Honestly, if you can spring for the X1, don't bother looking at the 990 Pro. The X1 is worthwhile over the 990 Pro, and I'd only look at the 990 Pro if absolutely can't afford the X1.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





sidiun said:


> Alright, thanks guys. I've decided to get the Fidelio X-1.
> My only question is, what would be the best amp/DAC/whatever to get for all-around gaming (so I guess the e10 is out? Stereo would be bad?) as well as general music/movies etc for less than $100 or so?
> Would a sound card like the Xonar DG be my best bet? I'd rather not have to fiddle about installing it, so if there are better external options I'd prefer those, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I had to.


 
  The Asus Xonar DG is $30 and there is a $10 mail in rebate this month.
  The DG comes with Headphone Surround Sound, the Fiio E10 does not.


----------



## zeroxevo

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you get the X1, you won't need anything else to power it other than the Mixamp 5.8. That should be enough for gaming and movie use. The E5 will not help. Good rule of thumb is that just a few decibels of volume require more than double the power of whatever your current device has. So let's say for example, you're running max volume off your device, and want to gain a few more decibels... you will need a bit more than double the maximum power of your current device to gain an appreciable amount of volume. This is why the E5 is not good as a volume booster over whatever you may have.
> 
> Honestly, if you can spring for the X1, don't bother looking at the 990 Pro. The X1 is worthwhile over the 990 Pro, and I'd only look at the 990 Pro if absolutely can't afford the X1.


 
  Thanks for pointing this out. I may just go for the X1. I have some nagging concerns for X1 as the earpad are not replaceable. Another thing about my setup - There are absolutely no other ways of doing wireless mic apart from using Astro USB chat cable on the mixamp TX unit?
   
  Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Crap, I forgot to send in the rebate for the U3. 

Ah well.

For $100-ish

Xonar DG - set the software as spdif out pcm (set to Dolby Headphone 2):
Fiio D03K - from the DG's optical out to the D03K's optical input, then analog out to:
Fiio E11


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> It does everything that the 990 pro does, but better. So yes, to me, it's worth the jump from the 990 Pro's price to the X1.


 
  What about DT990 Premium 600-Ohm verses Philips Fidelio X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> What about DT990 Premium 600-Ohm verses Philips Fidelio X1?




Again, X1 takes it. The X1 has better behaved treble by a looooong stretch, better mids, and similar-ish bass. Also, easier to drive (by a LOT), more comfortable.

The 990 is cleaner sounding, and more refined, but too v-shaped


----------



## mpawluk91

skipshrike said:


> I had forgotten about the mic that came with the Z. I'll give that a try and see if the sound is acceptable to others as I play.
> 
> For the Z itself, I just slapped on the profile for 'First Person Shooter' and then tweaked the sliders around. For BF3 I placed the sound option to Hi-Fi and turned on the stereo enhancement. It's too bad I can't use the Dolby Digital Live as that only goes through the SPDIF-Out.


Which sound option on bf3 is the best? I know war tapes is the loudest


----------



## ethan7000

mpawluk91 said:


> Which sound option on bf3 is the best? I know war tapes is the loudest



If you're using 5.1 with something like Dolby Headphone, use HiFi or Home Cinema. Otherwise, use headphone with enhanced stereo on.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> For $100-ish
> Xonar DG - set the software as spdif out pcm (set to Dolby Headphone 2):
> Fiio D03K - from the DG's optical out to the D03K's optical input, then analog out to:
> Fiio E11


 
  Does the Fiio E11 really sound better with the D03K, over plugging the Fiio E11 straight into the DG?
  Months ago I was using an E11 plugged straight into an DG and I though is sounded fairly good.


----------



## Zack117

Just ordered myself an Astro Mixamp Pro 2011 version as well as a 3.5mm/male to RCA/male cable, to hook it up with my E09k/E17 combo, driving my DT 880's.
  Since I'm playing a lot of PSP online atm while skyping on the PC I'd like to know how to make the best use of my equipment, or better said: How/what to connect and which additional cables I need, to get this working... if even possible, so I can get started straight away as soon as that piece arrives.
   
  What I want to do: Mixing PSP sound (3.5mm stereo out) with skype sound of PC (USB I assume) and feed it to my E09k. I already know how to use it with stationary consoles thanks to this awesome thread.
  Does anyone here know how to realize this?
   
  Some PSP (also PS3) Games offer Dolby Pro Logic II Processing in the audio options. Is it recommended to use it in combination with DH?
  I know Dolby Headphone needs multichannel sources to offer the virtual surround sound experience but I wasn't able to find anything about how it performs with stereo sources.
   
  Oh, since there are 2 mic inputs on the mixamp, besides the "controller" input - one direct input and another one to use with headphones via a Y-cable. Which input would you recommend? This Mixamp has so many inputs... it's not easy for me to deal with all of them, since I'm not able to try it out by myself yet.


----------



## davidsh

I have bought an old Creative Sound Blaster Live! sound card. Can't get cmss-3d out of that damn thing, drivers are soooo outdated. Really need some help. Nameless where are you?!? LOL


----------



## mpawluk91

ethan7000 said:


> If you're using 5.1 with something like Dolby Headphone, use HiFi or Home Cinema. Otherwise, use headphone with enhanced stereo on.


I'm using playstation av cables running into my arrow 4g and then into my ue 6000 

What's the real difference between war tapes, headphone, hifi, or cinema?


----------



## Change is Good

Out of all the closed cans I've seen you mention, here and on other threads, I think your best choices would be either the MDs or HP100s, depending on what sound you prefer. I personally believe the 3.2 MDs are superior to all the closed cans I've tried, and are a steal for $300. My second favorite closed can was the HP100 (also a steal for its $200 price tag), a very engaging can on the low end but quite U-shaped when compared to the more neutral MDs.
   
  Quote: 





mshenay said:


> I still want something like the Dt 880 but closed, and not the dt 770 variants... the HP Sound Magic has come up, and the Mad Dogs are always an option... but out of my previously Hifiman they where too warm... any suggestion Mad? [I love my w1000x but it's not portable] something around the $300 mark


 
   
  Maybe I can help, here, since I currently have the MDs and went through a few closed cans to find the ones I liked the most.
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sorry I'm really not well versed in closed headphones.


----------



## ethan7000

mpawluk91 said:


> I'm using playstation av cables running into my arrow 4g and then into my ue 6000
> 
> What's the real difference between war tapes, headphone, hifi, or cinema?



Headphone is meant for headphones (surprise) and is a stereo output. The rest work for 5.1 output or virtualized 5.1 like Dolby headphone. In headphones with DH I only notice a small difference between HiFi and home cinema, either works fine. I like the more up close sound of my weapon in HiFi and keep it set there. War tapes is meant to give you an action movie feel to the sound with guns and explosions being more visceral, but at the cost of positional accuracy (definitely not for playing in any competitive sense). I personally don't like war tapes at all, but try them and see what you like.


----------



## Baby Face Tony

How did the Slyr compare to the Plyr  1/2 when you got them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> Does the Fiio E11 really sound better with the D03K, over plugging the Fiio E11 straight into the DG?
> Months ago I was using an E11 plugged straight into an DG and I though is sounded fairly good.




I'm assuming the DG is like the U3. The U3 doesn't have a true analog line out, which is why there is no legitimate methid to connect an amp directly to the U3, since the only audio out is the combination headphone/spdif jack. You'd be going through the crappy internal amplifier if you go analog. With the U3, I keep the signal (including Dolby Headphone) in the digital realm, transferring it to the Fiio D03k, and letting that convert it to analog for the amp.

If the DG has an RCA out that retains Dolby Headphone, then by all means, try it that way


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

baby face tony said:


> How did the Slyr compare to the Plyr  1/2 when you got them?




They are essentially the same, sonically. Though I wasn't able to compare them directly, I did believe they sounded very similar, and was confirmed by Skullcandy via email that they were tuned to be similar.

I did find the Slyr to be more comfortable, with better pads in shape and feel.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Out of all the closed cans I've seen you mention, here and on other threads, I think your best choices would be either the MDs or HP100s, depending on what sound you prefer. I personally believe the 3.2 MDs are superior to all the closed cans I've tried, and are a steal for $300. My second favorite closed can was the HP100 (also a steal for its $200 price tag), a very engaging can on the low end but quite U-shaped when compared to the more neutral MDs.
> 
> 
> Maybe I can help, here, since I currently have the MDs and went through a few closed cans to find the ones I liked the most.


 
  Well I tried the 3.1 Mad Dog it with Lighter music it was just too heavy in the mids for me. But ofc I was using an already warm HM 601, cheap amps and hybrid tubes. Now I've got a Light Bright oDac and a Matrix M Stage solid state, which should do them justice at home... the issue now rests with my DAP. I LOVE the Hm 601. Mostly for it's SD card Support [Mirco Cards r expensive and to easy to lose] so I like luggin them bigger cards around tbh. Not to mention the sound was really lush!
   
  But again, with a can as dark and warm as the Mad Dog... I'll need a poartable equivilant to my home set up... 
   
  So again the question I'm on [assuming that I'm going with the Mad dogs] is I need an amp and a can that will brighten the mad dogs, as well as increase thier sound stage. The cans got better with the amp and source. My BRIGHTEST tube was nice for the MDs, but it was still a tube... 
   
  So any mega clean north of nuetral DAPS on the market? Something a little thin wouldn't be a bad thing. Dan mentioned the AK120 but well that's a $1200 dap... which is not happening in my budget.I hear Cowon makes a thin DAP, but the wrong kind of thin,.. plus I'm not a fan of DSP [man I really do like my Millet Hybrid Tube amp]


----------



## Evshrug

firefly89 said:


> thanks MLE
> 
> so- on console it outputs Dolby digital, so works fine with the DSS/Mix amp, but on PC you'd need dolby digital live over optical? Or something that had 3 sets of analogue inputs?
> 
> ...



Firefly,
Dunno if you're gonna read this, but I have a similar setup as yours. I actually have been gaining more Mac games alongside PC (if available, I'm almost always picking the Mac version because so far I've found them less buggy, though I still have a bunch of PC games waiting for me to get to them), so I understand that you'd like surround gaming as well as a competent external device. Well, I've said time and time again, if you have a Mac, Windows, and console platforms, the best I've found so far has been Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB processor. It has USB (and native drivers) for both PC platforms, and an optical input for consoles (I have a 360). And, it actually has pretty low noise, so it works well for double amping.

I have heard rumors that a few months from now, Creative is releasing a new version of this product to fit with their Z-series lineup. That's the one I want, but the wait is really under-living at the moment, if you know what I mean.

Alternatively, if your Mac has a Thunderbolt or HDMI port, you can connect to a home-theater receiver for surround. That's kind of a bulky solution, but it works, and it has it's advantages. I personally think Yamaha's Silent Cinema is comparable to Dolby Headphone, not much between them, although receivers usually have more tweaking options than standalone DH devices.



chubtoad said:


> http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/31/xbox-one-headset-adapter-confirmed-by-microsoft
> We should be happy that they will at least provide an adapter for us to use our current headphones, however I still think it should be included in the box!
> 
> BTW is there anybody else getting both consoles at launch? I currently have both on pre-order



That's good news!
Though honestly, after never owning a Sony console yet (IMO the PS1 was graphically messy, then... Halo, so I picked an Xbox over a PS2, stuck with it for online gaming into the current gen), I think I'd get a PS4 this time around. Or maybe just a PS3 and catch up on goodies I missed. I'd be tempted to buy an Xbox One and Halo 5, just to finish the story that could've (should've?) completed in Halo 3 because I'm a completionist, and return it after beating the campaign. I'm really wishing to just move over to PC now, and I'm sick of paying for multiplayer when it doesn't seem like most games take advantage of LIVE in any way better than on PC (plenty of hackers everywhere these days, too).



mad lust envy said:


> There are none, that anyone knows of. You're stuck with something like the Mixamp. You could score an older marantz receiver which is a good source and powerful-ish internal amp also with Dolby headphone.
> 
> Gonna have to wait for my E12 to come in... running unamped right now, though these are stupid easy to drive. 30mw max input power. That's like NOTHING.



If you wanted to try an E12, why didn't you just ask to borrow mine? It's been neglected lately, as I'm playing with tubes and considering a DAC/amp all-in-one for my iPods.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you wanted to try an E12, why didn't you just ask to borrow mine? It's been neglected lately, as I'm playing with tubes and considering a DAC/amp all-in-one for my iPods.


 
  Oh mi Gawd I WANNA try it . No Seriously I do want to try it. Want to see how it sounds with my Mid centric w1000x. hopefully it will be a good refrance point for how it will sound with another warm can! Plus  
   
  And for a dac amp all in one, I'm sure your aware of the Fiio E07k and E17 :3


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> Oh mi Gawd I WANNA try it . No Seriously I do want to try it. Want to see how it sounds with my Mid centric w1000x. hopefully it will be a good refrance point for how it will sound with another warm can! Plus
> 
> And for a dac amp all in one, I'm sure your aware of the Fiio E07k and E17 :3



Well, you wanna buy it? I'd loan it to Mad cuz he's loaned stuff to me.
And yep, I know the FiiO stuff, I was looking at the NuForce ICON iDo because my complete music library is on my iPod Video (the computer library is locked away in a dead laptop at the moment) and I don't tend to listen to the music while on the computer (cuz I'm gaming instead, and I'm happy bringing my iPod to work while graphic designing stuff). The iDo is one of those iPod-compatible DACs, though I could get all DIY and hook up a FiiO E17 to an iPad Camera Kit (and obviously my iPad). The iDo is more universal, though annoyingly it doesn't double-duty as a computer DAC too.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, you wanna buy it? I'd loan it to Mad cuz he's loaned stuff to me.
> And yep, I know the FiiO stuff, I was looking at the NuForce ICON iDo because my complete music library is on my iPod Video (the computer library is locked away in a dead laptop at the moment) and I don't tend to listen to the music while on the computer (cuz I'm gaming instead, and I'm happy bringing my iPod to work while graphic designing stuff). The iDo is one of those iPod-compatible DACs, though I could get all DIY and hook up a FiiO E17 to an iPad Camera Kit (and obviously my iPad). The iDo is more universal, though annoyingly it doesn't double-duty as a computer DAC too.


 
  Bah, you can loan me something <3 not like I've NEVER done buisness wid ya ;D. But I feel ya though
   
  Honestly though... I'd love to get my old Gen 3 iPod from me modda and rock box dat gal! She was only 4gbs but meh I could make that work. I just really want to hear it again. as it's been so long since I heard an apple product! But regardless of what i do, I'm NOT going to use iTunes...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I didn't want a loan, I wanted the E12 for myself. Lol.


----------



## mpawluk91

mshenay said:


> Bah, you can loan me something <3 not like I've NEVER done buisness wid ya ;D. But I feel ya though
> 
> Honestly though... I'd love to get my old Gen 3 iPod from me modda and rock box dat gal! She was only 4gbs but meh I could make that work. I just really want to hear it again. as it's been so long since I heard an apple product! But regardless of what i do, I'm NOT going to use iTunes...


iTunes used to be good


----------



## miceblue

iTunes is still good.....if you only use it for music.

   
  Otherwise it's really bloated now. Go to the iTunes Store and you'll have to wait a good 5 seconds for junk to load and what not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hence why I'll NEVER use software programs to manage my music. Enqueing in Winamp ftw.


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Just ordered myself an Astro Mixamp Pro 2011 version as well as a 3.5mm/male to RCA/male cable, to hook it up with my E09k/E17 combo, driving my DT 880's.
> Since I'm playing a lot of PSP online atm while skyping on the PC I'd like to know how to make the best use of my equipment, or better said: How/what to connect and which additional cables I need, to get this working... if even possible, so I can get started straight away as soon as that piece arrives.
> 
> What I want to do: Mixing PSP sound (3.5mm stereo out) with skype sound of PC (USB I assume) and feed it to my E09k. I already know how to use it with stationary consoles thanks to this awesome thread.
> ...


 
  Push : )


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anyone here been playing with a T1 and the Mixamp alone? 
   
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I have heard rumors that a few months from now, Creative is releasing a new version of this product to fit with their Z-series lineup. That's the one I want, but the wait is really under-living at the moment, if you know what I mean.


 
   
  You mean some external SBX device? Pair it up with DTS Input and I'm in. While the Mixamp still is the king among external devices there's a lot to be desired SQ-wise.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering the Teslas re more sensitive than the older Beyers, I'm sure the T1 and Mixamp are more than doable. Not ideal, but doable. The Mixamp can at least drive the 600ohm Beyers loudly, and so I feel the T1 would fare better off than those.

Of course, that's still far from ideal.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, that's true. I still haven't gotten a portable device yet. Reading in the portable amp subsection of these forums is like all the non-headphone gear sections. Full of magic. The minimum investment I want to make is a Fiio E12.


----------



## Makiah S

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hence why I'll NEVER use software programs to manage my music. Enqueing in Winamp ftw.


 
  Agree'd and I'm sure you all heard about that scare with iTunes downloading spy ware on your pc to make sure u weren't sharing files... well that wasn't a lie.
   
  Non the less that software was just so darn intrusive. It assoicated EVERYTHING with it self  and was such a pain to undo. When it updated like every other week I'd have to go  un associate everything again q.q


----------



## autoteleology

Mad Lust Envy, I noticed you reviewed your Stax setup with one of the basic amps (the SRM-252 in particular that was sent out with the HeadAmp demo). Frankly, these amps are pretty bad and give you only a small idea of what Stax can do because they just don't put out enough power very well. After my SRM-Xh (a very close ancestor to the SRM-252) fried after using a power source of a wrong polarity, I bought a second amplifier and the difference between the two was shocking. 
   
  Even though my current amp (an SRD-X Professional) isn't anything to brag about either, it is a substantial upgrade to one of the basic amps. However, I recently purchased an SRM-1/MK2 Professional amplifier, which is a massive upgrade over all three amps described above. Once I receive it, and have had time to enjoy and become accustomed to it, I would be willing to send my complete Stax setup to you (with some conditions) to review on the guide if you wish to do so.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm assuming the DG is like the U3. The U3 doesn't have a true analog line out, which is why there is no legitimate methid to connect an amp directly to the U3, since the only audio out is the combination headphone/spdif jack. You'd be going through the crappy internal amplifier if you go analog. With the U3, I keep the signal (including Dolby Headphone) in the digital realm, transferring it to the Fiio D03k, and letting that convert it to analog for the amp.
> 
> If the DG has an RCA out that retains Dolby Headphone, then by all means, try it that way


 
   
   
  in your honest opinion- is the u3 a piece of ****? should I return it while i'm still within my 30 days, or keep it? I guess it is useful, and in my testing it was better than onboard sound (but not by much)
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Firefly,
> Dunno if you're gonna read this, but I have a similar setup as yours. I actually have been gaining more Mac games alongside PC (if available, I'm almost always picking the Mac version because so far I've found them less buggy, though I still have a bunch of PC games waiting for me to get to them), so I understand that you'd like surround gaming as well as a competent external device. Well, I've said time and time again, if you have a Mac, Windows, and console platforms, the best I've found so far has been Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB processor. It has USB (and native drivers) for both PC platforms, and an optical input for consoles (I have a 360). And, it actually has pretty low noise, so it works well for double amping.
> 
> I have heard rumors that a few months from now, Creative is releasing a new version of this product to fit with their Z-series lineup. That's the one I want, but the wait is really under-living at the moment, if you know what I mean.
> ...


 
   
   
  thanks for the reply
  to be honest i've been spending a lot of time within windows recently and stereo sources sound awful with dolby headphone- so no netflix, no stereo movies or music, so i'm pretty happy to just stick with dolby headphone on games, and forget DH on mac- but good point about yamaha silent cinema, their receivers are good and pretty reasonable cost too- might be an option for the future- i'm already going HDMI into an onkyo receiver (home cinema in a box type thing but it sounds great)
   
  thanks for the tip about the recon, i'll check it out. So it works like the DSS? Converting surround sound into virtual surround sound, and it does that over usb? if so, cool!
   
  still undecided about headphones too
  people keep talking about the AKG 701, but what about the 601? It's not that much cheaper but it's a fair saving- I've heard it's warmer and less analytical than the 701, so maybe it's not good for gaming, the 701's get a lot of praise- i'm tempted to save the extra. I'm thinking the 558 or 598 is the best balance between gaming performance and music/movies ability- but I do like the look of the AKG's and the x1- and yes looks are important... so what to do, hard to find somewhere to try them out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't believe in amps transforming headphones like that. I've owned everything from a lowly E5 to the Lyr and SA-31 (which pumps about 10watts at 40ohm). The difference between amps are so subtle, that I'm incredibly wary of people talking about a vast improvement. The only time I felt that was with the HE-4, which required so much power than most typical amps.

I enjoyed the SR-407 off the 252s. If there's better, great, I'm sure there is, but I'd be happy with it as a main stax setup, if the pads and design were better. I don't plan on revisiting them with a better amp or not. These demos are making me spend money to ship back. Money that right now, I really need. I'm scraping by, and can't afford to just throw money on demos.

Thanks a lot for the offer though!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

firefly89 said:


> in your honest opinion- is the u3 a piece of ****? should I return it while i'm still within my 30 days, or keep it? I guess it is useful, and in my testing it was better than onboard sound (but not by much)




If you're using it as a dac/amp, then yes, there is much better. However, the way I'm using it, I have it so it sends Dolby Headphone digitally to a real dac and a real amp. This will make the U3 as good as you want it to be, because you're not using anything except the Dolby headphone encoder. You can't make 0's and 1's sound better or worse. As long as the signal is good, the DAC and AMP will be the ones doing the work, not the U3. So the U3 is priceless, because it's cheap as hell, and allows you to use your own good stuff. Getting a better dolby headphone device is moot, unless you plan on using the internal dac/amp.


----------



## miceblue

mad lust envy said:


> I don't believe in amps transforming headphones like that. I've owned everything from a lowly E5 to the Lyr and SA-31 (which pumps about 10watts at 40ohm). The difference between amps are so subtle, that I'm incredibly wary of people talking about a vast improvement. The only time I felt that was with the HE-4, which required so much power than most typical amps.
> 
> I enjoyed the SR-407 off the 252s. If there's better, great, I'm sure there is, but I'd be happy with it as a main stax setup, if the pads and design were better. I don't plan on revisiting them with a better amp or not. These demos are making me spend money to ship back. Money that right now, I really need. I'm scraping by, and can't afford to just throw money on demos.




Yup. That's exactly why I don't like travelling demo pairs.


----------



## zeroxevo

Took Mad Lust Envy's advice and took the plunge ordered from Amazon X1. I think i will only get them in like 10 days needing to forward them out from the US. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  My question is how would the sound quality compare using a DAC (ie E17 with out without E9) vs mixamp 5.8 using the X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're gaming, the Mixamp is a wiser choice. I would prefer playing and watching movies in Dolby Headphone off a horrible device than playing off the best stereo dac/amp in the world.

Also just in case you're ever considering it, don't get the E9 for the X1. The X1 has way too low of an impedance for the E9, and it may end up sounding worse, due to the E9's high output impedance. The E9 is more for headphones over 80ohms, though some exceptions (like the K70x aren't really affected by the high output).

Hmm, why did Fiio insist on putting the E12's analog input and headphone jack on the same side? Not to mention the USB on the side. All that stuff makes the front plate/side so cluttered with cables. I hate it when amps do this. Ah well.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





tus-chan said:


> Mad Lust Envy, I noticed you reviewed your Stax setup with one of the basic amps (the SRM-252 in particular that was sent out with the HeadAmp demo). Frankly, these amps are pretty bad and give you only a small idea of what Stax can do because they just don't put out enough power very well. After my SRM-Xh (a very close ancestor to the SRM-252) fried after using a power source of a wrong polarity, I bought a second amplifier and the difference between the two was shocking.
> 
> Even though my current amp (an SRD-X Professional) isn't anything to brag about either, it is a substantial upgrade to one of the basic amps. However, I recently purchased an SRM-1/MK2 Professional amplifier, which is a massive upgrade over all three amps described above. Once I receive it, and have had time to enjoy and become accustomed to it, I would be willing to send my complete Stax setup to you (with some conditions) to review on the guide if you wish to do so.


 
  Nice offer indeed!


----------



## SouDesu

Hello
thanks for this wonderful guide

I'm on a laptop and leaning towards buying the X1 right now, might buy a Q701 later 

as a fast check:
to get Dolby Headphone I should get Xonar U3.
the U3 has a high impedance so it will alter the X1 sound .
the U3 doesn't have a true analog line out so just plugging an amp (like FiiO E11) directly won't fix..
a fix is getting an AMP and a S/PDIF DAC .

so the setup will be something like:

Laptop > U3 > E17 > X1
or
Laptop > U3 > D3 > E11 > X1

these setups will give me the Dolby Headphones of the U3 without the high impedance problems and with the best of whatever AMP/DAC I connect .

am I right here and good to go? or did I miss something ?
also will the E6 be alright as a cheap alternative for the E11 in the second setup ?

Thanks,


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you're using it as a dac/amp, then yes, there is much better. However, the way I'm using it, I have it so it sends Dolby Headphone digitally to a real dac and a real amp. This will make the U3 as good as you want it to be, because you're not using anything except the Dolby headphone encoder. You can't make 0's and 1's sound better or worse. As long as the signal is good, the DAC and AMP will be the ones doing the work, not the U3. So the U3 is priceless, because it's cheap as hell, and allows you to use your own good stuff. Getting a better dolby headphone device is moot, unless you plan on using the internal dac/amp.


 
   
   
  I just bought the AKG 701, so might need to look into amping these in the future. For now the question is do I keep the u3 and use it as a headphone out for the 701 (with dolby headphone), and get an amp down the line and use with optical DAC (but won't work on mac as can't use u3's optical out, only analogue output or macbook pro's built in optical/analogue out), or upgrade to the u7 now and that might have a better inbuilt amp/dac? Doesn't have DH though, it has something else- dolby home theatre, apparantly it's not as good


----------



## Evshrug

Quote: 





firefly89 said:


> in your honest opinion- is the u3 a piece of ****? should I return it while i'm still within my 30 days, or keep it? I guess it is useful, and in my testing it was better than onboard sound (but not by much)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Firefly,
  Well, I haven't heard the k601 myself, but I've read people that prefer it, but generally people agree that it's not as refined as the current flagships. I would look at the AKG *Q*701, same "capsule" as a regular K701, little lime accents (unless you get the lime model, I have the white and I think it looks great, though a little big to wear on the bus of course), they usually sell for a bit cheaper if you look around. If you buy used, you can often find them around $200. The HD558 is no slouch, but IMO I think the 598 is close in cost enough to a Q701 that I'd just get the latter... unless you don't think you'll ever get an amp. The Q701 sounds good without an extra amp, but surround positioning, clarity, etc really come to life once you have a decent amp hooked up. Like Mad was saying about the Stax, you don't necessarily pick one amp over another because of the sound flavor, you pick any amp powerful enough for your headphone.
   
  Dolby Headphone is one option of several virtual surround processing options. Mad's favorite. Mine is the "THX TruStudio Pro" that the Recon3D USB works with. It does work through USB, and Creative did make driver software for the Mac so games AND movies gain surround, which is great! I have a review and some usage tips linked in my signature.


----------



## davidsh

The one that makes a good solution for both console, mac and pc will earn some pretty good cash.. Can it really be that hard?


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Firefly,
> Well, I haven't heard the k601 myself, but I've read people that prefer it, but generally people agree that it's not as refined as the current flagships. I would look at the AKG *Q*701, same "capsule" as a regular K701, little lime accents (unless you get the lime model, I have the white and I think it looks great, though a little big to wear on the bus of course), they usually sell for a bit cheaper if you look around. If you buy used, you can often find them around $200. The HD558 is no slouch, but IMO I think the 598 is close in cost enough to a Q701 that I'd just get the latter... unless you don't think you'll ever get an amp. The Q701 sounds good without an extra amp, but surround positioning, clarity, etc really come to life once you have a decent amp hooked up. Like Mad was saying about the Stax, you don't necessarily pick one amp over another because of the sound flavor, you pick any amp powerful enough for your headphone.
> 
> Dolby Headphone is one option of several virtual surround processing options. Mad's favorite. Mine is the "THX TruStudio Pro" that the Recon3D USB works with. It does work through USB, and Creative did make driver software for the Mac so games AND movies gain surround, which is great! I have a review and some usage tips linked in my signature.


 
  I just got the k701- at a too good to refuse price
   
  been looking at the recon, looks like a good unit- twice the price of the u3 though, and from the sounds of it not as powerful amp as the u3- might keep the u3 for now, forget about dolby headphone on mac- but now I know the recon works on mac- perfect
   
  need to spend more time to test out music and movies with dolby headphone to see if it's worth getting on mac, currently only use headphones for gaming, and occasionally music


----------



## Evshrug

Firefly,
I wouldn't be surprised if the amp section of the U3 is close to the power output of the Recon3D USB... basically, both would drive the Q701 loud enough, but from experience I'd say a headphone amp will make a big difference in the realism of the surround effect *for either USB processor.* I also found the distortion from the Recon3D USB to be very low, just testing by ear, and it responded well to double-amping (no problems).


----------



## Mackem

What closed circumaural cans are good for gaming / music? I found the DT770 Pro 80s felt a little uncomfortable on my jaw after a small while, but I loved the velour pads. Returned them because of aforementioned comfort / clamp issues and the fact that the mids sounded recessed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SouDesu, YES, that is correct. The E6... that's pretty weak for an amp, bu it's better than running anything out of the U3's amp.

The U3 has a thin, cold, weak sounding headphone amp. Get a dac/amp to attach to the U3 ASAP.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Firefly,
> I wouldn't be surprised if the amp section of the U3 is close to the power output of the Recon3D USB... basically, both would drive the Q701 loud enough, but from experience I'd say a headphone amp will make a big difference in the realism of the surround effect *for either USB processor.* I also found the distortion from the Recon3D USB to be very low, just testing by ear, and it responded well to double-amping (no problems).


 
   
  i'm probably going to be blown away by the 701 without an amp, i'm using k81's at the moment!
  or do you think I should get an amp right away
   
  so if I keep the u3, and use it like MLE does- as a Digital transport to pipe DDL signal to a DAC/amp, or use analogue output to go to a headphone amp (is that what you do? if so what amp are you running?)
   
  the only advantage of the recon then would be mac support, and console support (both good advantages), and would probably be a better solution than getting the DSS to use with consoles and mac (figured out that it probably won't work on mac without a dolby digital live output, which AFAIK isn't possible on mac), so the recon is the perfect solution then it seems!
  disadvantage is that it's twice the price, and therefore eats into my amp buying money
   
  if there was software that coded DH to use with my built in SPDIF that would mean I could just go from built in SPDIF to a DAC/amp 
   
   
  if I could get something to output


----------



## Evshrug

firefly89 said:


> i'm probably going to be blown away by the 701 without an amp, i'm using k81's at the moment!
> or do you think I should get an amp right away
> 
> so if I keep the u3, and use it like MLE does- as a Digital transport to pipe DDL signal to a DAC/amp, or use analogue output to go to a headphone amp (is that what you do? if so what amp are you running?)
> ...



I haven't used the U3 myself. Right now I'm using a DSS, analogue out to my tube amp, and I'm not particularly interested in seeking another DH product. I sold my Recon3D USB in a bundle with my AD700 headphones, a "complete gamer kit," but I miss the Recon, and I had it plugged into my computer via USB (dual-boots Mac and Windows, and it continues to provide power through USB even if turned off) and optical to my Xbox at the same time, then a headphone-to-RCA cable into my tube amp, then Q701. I don't currently own a proper external DAC, unless you count the DSS (works in stereo with the PC, but I don't use it that way), but that'll be the last thing I'll upgrade.

I'll actually make a weird recommendation. First, just plug your K701s into your device. It ought to still impress you with better refinement and detail, and be a clear upgrade. Then, save up for a good amp later, one you won't need to replace. It'll be like two surprises in just how great things can get, and you'll end up with a better amp.

I use a custom-made tube amp (a super simple 6DJ8 amp), a FiiO E12, and in my old apartment I used to use my Yamaha receiver for simplicity's sake (DAC, amp, surround processor, input switcher, and speaker amp all in one, with a remote control for bonus). Oh, I also used a FiiO E5 at first, that was ok and it did take a bit of the edge off of the treble, but better amps were better. Other good recommendations for amps are around, but I feel that tonally they're all pretty close if they're solid-state amps (which is partly why I'm playing with tubes), so pick one with a good match in high power and low output impedance.

I personally think THX TruStudio Pro was also an advantage of the Recon3D USB, but that's a taste thing.


----------



## zeroxevo

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If you're gaming, the Mixamp is a wiser choice. I would prefer playing and watching movies in Dolby Headphone off a horrible device than playing off the best stereo dac/amp in the world.
> 
> Also just in case you're ever considering it, don't get the E9 for the X1. The X1 has way too low of an impedance for the E9, and it may end up sounding worse, due to the E9's high output impedance. The E9 is more for headphones over 80ohms, though some exceptions (like the K70x aren't really affected by the high output).
> 
> Hmm, why did Fiio insist on putting the E12's analog input and headphone jack on the same side? Not to mention the USB on the side. All that stuff makes the front plate/side so cluttered with cables. I hate it when amps do this. Ah well.


 
   
  I am most likely using the setup for 2 purposes: 1) Gaming and Movie on my desktop PC (i am driving sound through my Creative Soundblaster ZX and do not know if it can drive the X1 well enough) and 2) on my media box in my bedroom using optical out for DD as well 
   
  So I am just wondering if i even need any more amp other that Astro Mixamp 5.8. And which portable amp will match X1 best. I have been reading conflicting review on each of Fiio Amps. I mean i am trying to stay away from desktop amps as i do not like clutter and unless it going to be decorative (ie nicely finished starving student tube amp )


----------



## ethan7000

ZX drives the X1 with no issues at all. I recommend listening out of the ZX first and then compare it to the mixamp to see what you think. The X1 is a low impedance high efficiency set, it can be driven well by iPods etc.


----------



## Sidiun

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> SouDesu, YES, that is correct. The E6... that's pretty weak for an amp, bu it's better than running anything out of the U3's amp.
> 
> The U3 has a thin, cold, weak sounding headphone amp. Get a dac/amp to attach to the U3 ASAP.


 
   
  Didn't you say that the difference in sound between different amps is minimal? The X1 seems to require very little amping, so surely the Xonar DG / U3 would be fine? If not, could you recommend any amp in particular under $100? Keep in mind I'm a PC gamer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because the U3 has a really high output impedance. That will affect sound negatively. When I say amp differences aren't that huge, it's when comparing some legitimate amps.

Anyways...

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1Z6JkxdVKw[/VIDEO]


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





firefly89 said:


> I just bought the AKG 701, so might need to look into amping these in the future. For now the question is do I keep the u3 and use it as a headphone out for the 701 (with dolby headphone), and get an amp down the line and use with optical DAC (but won't work on mac as can't use u3's optical out, only analogue output or macbook pro's built in optical/analogue out), or upgrade to the u7 now and that might have a better inbuilt amp/dac? Doesn't have DH though, it has something else- dolby home theatre, apparantly it's not as good


 
  I have both the Xonar U1 and the Xonar U7. The U1 has the same interface and the same options as the U3. But it has a better headphone amp section. It is good enough for Games and Movies. And you have the optical out that can feed the Dolby Headphone signal to your high quality DAC/AMP. The U7 on the other hand has a new Dolby implementation. It contains all Dolby Headphone algorithms and sounds for sure not worse than the U1/U3. But they gave up the manually selection of how many channels you want to run. Dolby says it is selected by the source automatically to grant you the best multichannel performance. And the user cannot select 2 channel when he has a 7.1 source. The U7 has a coax S/PDIF out and when using it you can still use the DH function of the Dolby software. But as I have no external DAC I cannot proof how good it sounds. The analog headphone out of the U7 outclasses the U1/U3. You can also enjoy your music with the K701 for sure, not only games and movies.


----------



## davidsh

Sure the u7 supports DH? It only says Dolby home cinema in the specs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe it's because they did away with calling it DH, as it's a software that works for speakers, headphones, etc. DH is embedded, FWIR.


----------



## davidsh

But still no console support...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No soundcard that I've seen has that...

Jesus, man, The e12 has an incredibly tight volume knob. It's freaking hard to adjust.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Keeps you safe from accidental ear blasting though


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That IS true, but DAMN if that isn't the toughest volume knob in existence, lol.

So I initially felt the E12 was bright. Then I thought it was the Fiio D03K. It seems to have been the music I had recently downloaded. So sibilant.

The X1 is almost unusable on high gain. The E12 has a crapton of gain... but damn, it sounds extremely tight/clean.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> Sure the u7 supports DH? It only says Dolby home cinema in the specs.


 
  [size=11pt][size=medium]This is what I asked Dolby support:[/size][/size]
  [size=11pt] [/size]
  [size=11pt][size=medium]As a long time user of Dolby Headphone technology from Asus Xonar soundcards, I am concerned that the new Dolby® Home Theater v4 headphone implementation found on the Xonar U7 might be inferior to the classical Dolby Headphone. Please clarify that for me. [/size][/size]
  [size=11pt][size=medium]Thanks Peter[/size][/size]
  [size=11pt] [/size]
  [size=11pt]Hi Peter-[/size]
  [size=11pt]I apologize for the delay in responding to your email, the team was attending E3 last week.  The algorithms between Dolby Headphone and Dolby Home Theater v4 for headphone virtualization are the same, so there shouldn’t be any difference.  You may be hearing a difference because DHT v4 features things like volume leveling, dialogue enhancement, etc.[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]I hope this helps.[/size]
   
  [size=11pt]Best-[/size]
  [size=11pt]The Dolby Game Team[/size]


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> But still no console support...


 
  The Dolby stuff is calculated by the PC. No console will ever give the software space to do so.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting. Thanks Piet.
   
  Anyway Peter, do you have any personal comparison between FiiO E11/E12 and your Meier?
   
  I want a portable amp to power any headphone for the Mixamp and deciding between FiiO and Meier. UHA6 MKII is an alternative.


----------



## pietcux

The E12 is very tempting, but I could hold back myself from buying both the E12 and the X3 DAP. I am totally happy with my Ultrasone Signature DJ, the Ipod Classic and the Stepdance @ 15 volt, I cannot stand more of better sound right now.
   





   
  But maybe I will preorder The E12 limited version that was announced here:
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/674808/fiio-e12diy-limited-edition-version
   
  Very tempting


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was about to rage if I had seen the input and usb ports moved to the back. I would've packaged the E12 right back up to return if that had been the case.


----------



## pietcux

What would Yoda tell you about this rage.......
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The complete back of the E12 is filled with its powerful battery though, no space for connectors.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I just scored an E17 off the forums for $75. I plan on leaving it stacked with the E12 (through the L7 lod which I've had since ancient times, lol), and using the E17 as my SPDIF dac for the Xonar U3, and the USB portion for my audiophile purposes. Makes the Fiio D03K moot, but oh well.

It was that or the ODAC later, and I chose versatility over tech superiority. I find DACs to sound samey anyways...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> That IS true, but DAMN if that isn't the toughest volume knob in existence, lol.
> 
> So I initially felt the E12 was bright. Then I thought it was the Fiio D03K. It seems to have been the music I had recently downloaded. So sibilant.
> 
> The X1 is almost unusable on high gain. The E12 has a crapton of gain... but damn, it sounds extremely tight/clean.




So, you're liking it? Yeah it IS impressively clean, that's the benefit of the low total harmonic distortion, low output impedance, and crazy (for a portable) power. It is maybe a bit much for 100% portable use, but it's impressive enough to suit more power-hungry headphones. It even supplies a fair amount of current for low-impedance headphones to sound their best, if I am not mistaken (the low output impedance helps).

Why use high gain with a low impedance 'phone? That's 16 dB of gain, you crazy Mad man!

Btw, I also thought the E12 was clean but on the edge of bright initially, but apparently resistor burn-in or at least settling is actually a thing. So yeah, sibilant music counts, but the slightly edged treble smooths out. FiiO's most neutral portable amp to date, IMO.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Objective O2 is actually not too bad for my Mixamp 5.8 living room solution even though it's not portable. They should all be the same except certain features or is there some standout among the O2 creations? JDS vs. Epiphany?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, they should be similar.

I never got into the O2 because of all the inputs being in the front. That is a horrible design. I mean, REALLY, a power adapter input on the front? That is such a turn off.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.
   
  The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.

I say this, because if you're using Millia, the very first area of the game when you're in control of her has some water running in the distance which offers very fantastic positional cues.

I'm sure the game has plenty of more, but just thought I'd mention this as I just now heard it, and I have to immediately go to sleep, lol.


----------



## Dillweed

Is there a good guide somewhere for how to find an appropriate amp for your headphones?
   
  I have those TH-600s coming to me now, but from the best information I can find, the output impedance on my Lovely Cube is 6 Ohms on the headphone out, which doesn't seem like a good fit if you use that 1/8th rule (6 Ohms output impedance → 48 Ohms minimum headphone impedance vs. the TH-600's 25 Ohms). Most of the technicalities are over my head. I'm not sure about the output impedance directly from the X-Fi Titanium HD itself, but an article at goldenears puts it around 35.59 Ohms (I'm guessing on the headphone out). I don't know how to figure out the line out impedance from the specs given, since all they really say is 2Vrms and 122dB output on the line out. Somebody on the Creative forums said that the line out impedance is "0.01 ohms @ 10K load," but again, I don't know/remember how to translate that to usable information when trying to pair a headphone and amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Line Out of the Titanium HD (don't worry about loss CMSS-3D, it's not bound to any output so you can still use it via line out) to an Objective O2 amp would be a very good combo.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.


 
   
  That's kind of exciting. I should really pick up a surround device for my PS3.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nah, they should be similar.
> 
> I never got into the O2 because of all the inputs being in the front. That is a horrible design. I mean, REALLY, a power adapter input on the front? That is such a turn off.


 
   
  It is easy enough to purchase one with inputs on the back, or build your own. I'll get pics uploaded of the one we just finished.
   
  -Erik
   
  Edit: We need to make the front LED dimmer


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, they should be similar.
> 
> I never got into the O2 because of all the inputs being in the front. That is a horrible design. I mean, REALLY, a power adapter input on the front? That is such a turn off.



I don't like the power on the front plate either, nor how the O2 is in purgatory between desktop and portable sized, and is kind of a miss for either application. In the case of the E12, I actually understand having input, output, and volume "at the top," all the cables and controls are at the top of your pocket. 

And yeah, that volume pot is hella tight, but it doesn't have that bracket thing over it like the E11. Eventually, you get used to the angle you need to torque to get it turning.



fegefeuer said:


> yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.
> 
> The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.



Is it really the best though?


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> I have both the Xonar U1 and the Xonar U7. The U1 has the same interface and the same options as the U3. But it has a better headphone amp section. It is good enough for Games and Movies. And you have the optical out that can feed the Dolby Headphone signal to your high quality DAC/AMP. The U7 on the other hand has a new Dolby implementation. It contains all Dolby Headphone algorithms and sounds for sure not worse than the U1/U3. But they gave up the manually selection of how many channels you want to run. Dolby says it is selected by the source automatically to grant you the best multichannel performance. And the user cannot select 2 channel when he has a 7.1 source. The U7 has a coax S/PDIF out and when using it you can still use the DH function of the Dolby software. But as I have no external DAC I cannot proof how good it sounds. The analog headphone out of the U7 outclasses the U1/U3. You can also enjoy your music with the K701 for sure, not only games and movies.


 
  interesting, thanks
   
  so my choices are:
   
  1) keep u3 and go SPDIF to external dac/amp (a fiiio?)- SPDIF won't work in OSX (massive problem, will probably get rid of the U3 because of that)
  2) get u7 and use it as a dac/amp (assuming the coax output works in OSX- can anyone test this? just plug it in, alt-click on the sound icon in top right and see what outputs there are from the card)
  3) recon 3d with dac/amp- mac drivers so SPDIF to external DAC
  4) is there a creative equivalent of the u7? the x-fi pro usb card maybe? but not sure if it has mac drivers, and support for THX tru surround 
   
  so basically it's get a cheap soundcard (recon) and go to a DAC/amp, or get a good sound card and be happy with that- maybe get a DAC/amp in the future
  the more I think about it the more I think I should get the recon, and an external DAC/amp- i've just heard that DH is better than the tru surround that creative use
   
  i'd be happy to spend £100, maybe £120
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I haven't used the U3 myself. Right now I'm using a DSS, analogue out to my tube amp, and I'm not particularly interested in seeking another DH product. I sold my Recon3D USB in a bundle with my AD700 headphones, a "complete gamer kit," but I miss the Recon, and I had it plugged into my computer via USB (dual-boots Mac and Windows, and it continues to provide power through USB even if turned off) and optical to my Xbox at the same time, then a headphone-to-RCA cable into my tube amp, then Q701. I don't currently own a proper external DAC, unless you count the DSS (works in stereo with the PC, but I don't use it that way), but that'll be the last thing I'll upgrade.
> 
> I'll actually make a weird recommendation. First, just plug your K701s into your device. It ought to still impress you with better refinement and detail, and be a clear upgrade. Then, save up for a good amp later, one you won't need to replace. It'll be like two surprises in just how great things can get, and you'll end up with a better amp.
> 
> ...


 
   
  how much would I be looking at for an 'amp I don't need to replace', i'd rather get that right away instead of a stop gap waste-of-money amp- don't really want to spend more than 200 max though, i'm not really an audiophile, and the law of diminishing returns doesn't interest me, I'm not a huge music listener and I mostly listen to quite low key electronic music- I only really got the 701's because they look awesome, and they were a pretty good price


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I haven't used the U3 myself. Right now I'm using a DSS, analogue out to my tube amp, and I'm not particularly interested in seeking another DH product. I sold my Recon3D USB in a bundle with my AD700 headphones, a "complete gamer kit," but I miss the Recon, and I had it plugged into my computer via USB (dual-boots Mac and Windows, and it continues to provide power through USB even if turned off) and optical to my Xbox at the same time, then a headphone-to-RCA cable into my tube amp, then Q701. I don't currently own a proper external DAC, unless you count the DSS (works in stereo with the PC, but I don't use it that way), but that'll be the last thing I'll upgrade.
> 
> I'll actually make a weird recommendation. First, just plug your K701s into your device. It ought to still impress you with better refinement and detail, and be a clear upgrade. Then, save up for a good amp later, one you won't need to replace. It'll be like two surprises in just how great things can get, and you'll end up with a better amp.
> 
> ...


 
  I might go for your option of just using the 701's with the recon/u3- but if you think an amp, or a DAC/amp would improve things (which would be better? i'm looking at the Fiio products, the e12 and the e17) I have the money right now so would like to go for it and not have to worry about upgrading again
   
  if I got the e17 I could use it as a USB dac with osx, and as a SPDIF dac to convert DH audio from u3- or should I just get the recon and feed the e17 SPDIF for osx and windows?


----------



## miceblue

fegefeuer said:


> yeah, that's true, it's not very pretty and nobody tried changing this. I guess they're loyal to the board design.
> 
> The great appeal is in it being the best and at the same time cheapest solution for tougher headphones both SQ-wise and in power.




Says who? A whole bunch of people have modified where the inputs/outputs are.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Says who? A whole bunch of people have modified where the inputs/outputs are.


 
   
  DIY people for sure. I don't see any EU reseller doing this though.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Well yeah...
   
  Quote: 





> Anyone is free to use the O2 design, as presented here, if they comply with the Creative Commons
> 
> *No Derivative Works* — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.


----------



## Evshrug

firefly89 said:


> interesting, thanks
> 
> so my choices are:
> 
> ...




About your choices... I don't think the U3 has full functionality with OS X, in fact I'm pretty sure it just would show up as a generic stereo device. So probably no DH from that. Second, I've been very specific to NOT ABBREVIATE Recon3D USB, because there are Recon3D internal soundcards (no native Mac drivers for these by Creative) and then there's the USB unit that does have Mac drivers and CAN address DDL input from consoles S/PDIF optical so that consoles can supply surround sound. Third, the Recon3D USB does not have a digital output to connect to another DAC... the Recon3D USB >is< the DAC, and you would want to double amp using the analogue headphone jack. Don't worry, this works pretty well because the noise floor of the Recon3D USB is pretty low, I've had good/great results with all my amps.

Creative makes an X-Fi Go! Pro (or something similarly named) that is the equivalent USB stick as the Asus Xonar U3, but it says on the product page that it doesn't support Mac either. OS X may still mount it as a generic stereo device, but that doesn't give you a benefit over the pretty good internal sound on Apple computers (most of their headphone jacks also double as optical outputs, too).

I've mentioned before, Creative is rumored to be making another Mac-compatible external sound device, but I don't know what that'll support and I bet it's at least a few months away.



firefly89 said:


> I might go for your option of just using the 701's with the recon/u3- but if you think an amp, or a DAC/amp would improve things (which would be better? i'm looking at the Fiio products, the e12 and the e17) I have the money right now so would like to go for it and not have to worry about upgrading again
> 
> if I got the e17 I could use it as a USB dac with osx, and as a SPDIF dac to convert DH audio from u3- or should I just get the recon and feed the e17 SPDIF for osx and windows?




Yeah, here's where I think you're saying that you think the Recon has a digital out... It doesn't. The E17 is a DAC/amp, and the Recon3D USB is a DAC/amp with only a headphone output, the E17's amp section is stronger than the Recon3D's but neither is really good amping for the K701 by themselves. A receiver with headphone surround (like the old Denon/Marantz receivers with DH, old and current Yamaha receivers with Silent Cinema, and other manufacturer's implimentations) would have a decent amp section to be an all-in-one solution for the K701, you can get one like mine for less than $200 US dollar. If you use the Recon3D USB + an amp, that amp could be a FiiO E09k or E12, Little Dot i+, or one of the amps Head-Fi user Chicolom has enjoyed with his Q701 (Matrix M-Stage, iFi iCAN). Some people like the Objective2, but I think it's the person child of a desktop and portable amp that borders on analytical sound and was designed to prove a point and make NuForce look bad; it's a good value SQ-wise but I probably won't buy one.

Does that help any? I'm falling as.eep, and typing/concentrating is getting hard when some of my blinks starts some REM activity. Goodnight my friends on Head-Fi!


----------



## calpis

Slowly read through like 50 pages of posts while listening and still loving my Pro2900 playing my new guilty pleasure, the new Tommy Feb6 album. I'm still trying to figure out how to pick up a TH600 :/
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> To anyone else who bought Tales of Xillia... the game runs in Dolby Digital, unlike Tales of Graces F.
> 
> I say this, because if you're using Millia, the very first area of the game when you're in control of her has some water running in the distance which offers very fantastic positional cues.
> 
> I'm sure the game has plenty of more, but just thought I'd mention this as I just now heard it, and I have to immediately go to sleep, lol.


 
   
  I should be getting my copy from Amazon tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to start it since I picked up Time and Eternity about 2 weeks ago. The game and audio is pretty bad and I had to switch playing it in stereo since the voice mixing is pretty horrid in DH. This is bad since the japanese voice cast has some of my favorites :/ Oh well, I'm only playing it for an hour or 2 every other day so...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard that game was... not good. I was looking forward to it just based on the character models looking like they came straight out of an anime, but reviews have slammed the game, and just from what I've seen, I probably would've been peeved to waste that much money on a dud. I want to help keep jrpgs alive, but companies need to start localizing the GOOD games, not these lackluster titles. There's so much of a backlog that they can localize and be popular now, but companies would never do that.

I'm so excited for Xillia. My last real, lengthy, console RPG played was tales Graces F, which was a year ago. That's how scarce JRPGs are now.


----------



## calpis

I haven't really played a JRPG that I wanted to finish to completion in over a decade now. I tried plenty but lost interest quickly. I have a few sealed JRPGs (Resonance of Fate, P4G, and a few more) that I will give a shot later but for now the Pre-order goodies in Xillia got the best of me lol. Still want to pick up Dragon's Crown and play a bit of it before Saints Row 4 comes out because I feel that game will consume me for a good month.


----------



## Vicx

Mad Lust, great, great thread. I was going to buy the Astro A40 + mixamp for PS3 gaming, but after reading this thread it seems like I should forget the A40 and just buy the mixamp alone as I already own the Denon D2000 which I use just for music on PC, should I go ahead with it? I mainly play BF3 and Black Ops 2 so I think the D2000's soundstage should be good for these games.
   
  Just trying to decide whether to buy the 2012 or 2013 mixamp. From what I've read the 2013 ed. is better but unreliable.
   
  I started a thread here but I think this thread has answered my question: http://www.head-fi.org/t/675626/d2000-on-ps3-pc-with-astro-mixamp
   
  I also read your DT990 review which seems even better than the D2000 for gaming, so I might consider that in the future.
   
   
  this quote was also helpful: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-7-18-2013-philips-fidelio-x1-added/4695#post_8222587
  Quote: 





maverickronin said:


> The Beyerdynamic DT990s will give you a bigger soundstage with more "3D" sounding spatial cues and some extra bass will add to the immersion too.  Any version of those will probably benefit from an amp though.
> 
> The D2000s aren't as "3D" as the Beyers but they have plenty of bass, go deeper than the DT990 or HD650 and should be fine from your mixamp.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though I haven't heard the D2000, if the soundstage is in the same realm as the D7000, i think you're in a very good place as far as a fun gaming headphone goes. Considering it sits between the Creative Aurvana Live and the D7000 as far as Fostex headphones go, I think I'd just get the Mixamp alone, if you're not in need of a headset.

I personally find the pre-2013 Mixamps to be better than the 2013, due to way less hiss on the older models, though while gaming, the hiss isn't problematic on the 2013. The 2013 Mixamp has the advantage of having EQ-presets, to tune your sound a little, though I personally don't like to tweak a headphone's sound unless it's a horrible headphone, or if there is something problematic like too much treble, etc.


----------



## Vicx

awesome, I'll go ahead and buy the Astro mixamp once I've decided which edition I'll get. I'll recoup the cost from selling my Sony Pulse 7.1 headset. Looks like I'll only need one headset for PC, PS3 and drumming (TD-12). You're providing a great service for humanity with this thread.
   
  Decided not to buy the DT990, I think I'd prefer the bass of the D2000 instead and it's more comfortable. The DT990 looks similar to the Pulse which aren't very comfortable after an hour or so, it's strange because the first Sony headset had much bigger cups and far more comfortable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990 is incredibly comfy, lol. More comfy than the D7000 ever was for me, but I just don't like leather/pleather pads in general, so I'm biased, and the 990 is known to have the best velour pads out of any headphone, basically.

Still, I believe the 990 would be too much like the D2000 in terms of bass and treble, so maybe you're better off with something else. If you could afford it, the X1 is better than the 990 by quite a bit, though that too may share similarities in tonal balance to the D2000. However, it's open, which the D2000 isn't. That is a benefit by it's own accord.


----------



## Change is Good

Finally finished Hitman Absolution. I must say the audio and positional cues in this game were amazing. Some of the best I've heard...

Story was meh...

Up next are Dead Space 3, Tomb Raider, MG Rising, and Max Payne 3. I have to start knocking some of these off before GTA V comes out...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tomb Raider was so damn amazing.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> About your choices... I don't think the U3 has full functionality with OS X, in fact I'm pretty sure it just would show up as a generic stereo device. So probably no DH from that. Second, I've been very specific to NOT ABBREVIATE Recon3D USB, because there are Recon3D internal soundcards (no native Mac drivers for these by Creative) and then there's the USB unit that does have Mac drivers and CAN address DDL input from consoles S/PDIF optical so that consoles can supply surround sound. Third, the Recon3D USB does not have a digital output to connect to another DAC... the Recon3D USB >is< the DAC, and you would want to double amp using the analogue headphone jack. Don't worry, this works pretty well because the noise floor of the Recon3D USB is pretty low, I've had good/great results with all my amps.
> 
> Creative makes an X-Fi Go! Pro (or something similarly named) that is the equivalent USB stick as the Asus Xonar U3, but it says on the product page that it doesn't support Mac either. OS X may still mount it as a generic stereo device, but that doesn't give you a benefit over the pretty good internal sound on Apple computers (most of their headphone jacks also double as optical outputs, too).
> 
> ...


 
   
  that's perfect, thanks
   
  interesting to hear the recon3d usb has no SPDIF output, good job i'm using HDMI on my laptop to send audio to my receiver (I was using optical, but the optical cable sticking out the side of my laptop is unsightly, the connecter is so big when combined with the 3.5mm adaptor, also I can't get multichannel PCM out of SPDIF so I use HDMI exclusively now)
  ok so i'm going to try the recon, A/B it against the u3, test it out on osx (the u3 works on osx, just can't really control anything other than volume as it's a generic plug  'n' play driver, the only real advantage to the recon3dUSB is the native driver, if it works with virtual surround and I actually like it for music/movies then great, otherwise the native drivers aren't that useful), will add an e12 amp down the line or just get one right away
   
  assuming my headphones actually eventually arrive, and the 'too good to be true' price doesn't come back to haunt me...


----------



## widdyjudas

I got a deal for the Fidelio X1 here in HK for 290 usd, brand new. Is it worth it to change from HE400? Music and gaming use.


----------



## Mackem

Quote: 





mackem said:


> What closed circumaural cans are good for gaming / music? I found the DT770 Pro 80s felt a little uncomfortable on my jaw after a small while, but I loved the velour pads. Returned them because of aforementioned comfort / clamp issues and the fact that the mids sounded recessed.


 
  Any ideas?


----------



## burritoboy9984

If anyone is interested in a good entry level headset, I've posted my AD700 and Modmic for sale in the classifieds section.

-Erik


----------



## Vicx

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The 990 is incredibly comfy, lol. More comfy than the D7000 ever was for me, but I just don't like leather/pleather pads in general, so I'm biased, and the 990 is known to have the best velour pads out of any headphone, basically.
> 
> Still, I believe the 990 would be too much like the D2000 in terms of bass and treble, so maybe you're better off with something else. If you could afford it, the X1 is better than the 990 by quite a bit, though that too may share similarities in tonal balance to the D2000. However, it's open, which the D2000 isn't. That is a benefit by it's own accord.


 
   
  Ok I checked out the X1 but I think I'll see how my D2000 goes first, I'm not much of an audiophile so I think it'll be good enough for me, I'm already amazed at how good it is alone on the PS3. Just bought the 2012 astro mixamp as I've heard too many bad things about the 2013 edition for almost no benefit other than the EQ settings.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Interesting. Thanks Piet.
> 
> Anyway Peter, do you have any personal comparison between FiiO E11/E12 and your Meier?


 
  I could not hold back, ordered the E12 tonight. Will post my comparison with the Meier Stepdance then.


----------



## firefly89

ok I got my k701's today, still waiting for the amp and the recon 3dusb to be delivered- had a quick test of them but got to work today. First impression is that the bass is great, I was expecting weedy bass due to all the neg comments, 100x more comfortable, but overall not hugely improved on my k81- it's not night and day, it's better of course, but not even twice as good, I think it might be the limit of my source music though (320kb's), will try them for gaming, and test them with the amp.
   
  The u3 sounds terrible even compared to onboard sound! it makes me think that the fiio e12 won't improve things when outputting from the u3, and the recon might not be much better. So I think i'm going to try the xonar u7 (has DH), see how it sounds with and without the fiio
  you said the u3 is thin and weak, you're right- so is it better to double amp it or get rid of it entirely. I would use it like you do as a digital out to go to a DAC but spdif doesn't work on osx. The recon3dUSB might be equally poor sounding, and although that has native mac drivers it has no spdif output, so I might end up getting a usb dac, and running it with the recon/u3 for DH in games (a bit of an effort to switch cables all the time)
   
   
  essentially is the recon 3d usb going to be a bottleneck in my sound chain? But if it's good enough for EVshrug it's probably good enough for me


----------



## pietcux

I have the K702 running from my Xonar U7. It is a very good combination. From the K702 I get the comfort for long gaming or movie sessions and the good positional queues, from the Xonar U7 I get the Dolby headphone implementation to make the sound immerse me. And both are also very good for music from the PC. And I only use ITunes 320 VBR.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> I have the K702 running from my Xonar U7. It is a very good combination. From the K702 I get the comfort for long gaming or movie sessions and the good positional queues, from the Xonar U7 I get the Dolby headphone implementation to make the sound immerse me. And both are also very good for music from the PC. And I only use ITunes 320 VBR.


 
   
   
  nice, so running without an amp?
  was it you that posted before saying you'd tried the u3 and found the u7 headphone output a lot better?
   
  I think what i'm going to do is buy everything, and test it out for a week or two, then return what I don't want to amazon
  so going to try:
   
  fiio e12
  xonar u3
  xonar u7
  recon 3dusb
   
  edit: add fiio e17 to that list too
   
   
  my ideal solutions:
  1) the u7 sounds just fine without the amp so I can return the e12 and the u3- cheapest and neatest (one box) solution, still doesn't solve my osx problem though
  2) the recon with the e12 sounds great and has native mac drivers (2 box solution)
  3) e17 used as dac and amp, no dolby headphone (one box solution)
   
  is there no way to use the xonar software to process the audio, but output it over another device? So connect the e17 and the u3, but just send the DH coded digital information into the e17 dac/amp?


----------



## pietcux

But you say you are on a MAC with OSX, right? Then the U7 will also not provide any Dolby function. DOLBY is running on Windows. And there are no Mac drivers yet.


----------



## firefly89

I am on a mac, but I only use Dolby for gaming, which I do on windows (bootcamp), music on osx is always stereo, and movies are usually played in surround sound rather than headphones- afaik creatives recon3d USB has thx virtual surround and works in mac, but really not sure how much I'd use it in mac- to be honest I'm happy to switch to windows when I want to watch a movie with headphones
I only considered the u7 for its higher quality components and nicer look


As long as it works with generic drivers on osx and sounds good that's fine


Got the e12 in the post- made an unbelievable amount of difference, and now the u3 sounds better than onboard- if the u7 sounds better still then that would be fine for me, but I will also try the creative and see if I like that (and try it out for console use)


----------



## pietcux

It has three output options selected by pressing the volume knob:

 Headphone
 Speakers
 Digital
  I have no clue which are selected by the generic Mac driver. I can only hope it works for you.


----------



## Evshrug

Firefly,
The U3 may "work" with OS X, but I'm assuming it doesn't add DH processing to multichannel audio, right? And that's the whole point of it, though it sounds like you have few Mac games... The Mac App Store and Steam catalogs are growing, FYI. I prefer Starcraft II in Mac, fewer bugs it seems (played HotS on PC, got weird shadows and looping audio), and some steam games if you buy one copy of the game, you can play it on either system (Like SW: the force unleashed. Weirdly it downloaded like 10x faster too).

Glad you're enjoying the E12! At some point people thought it's purpose was to be a bass machine, which is odd, but as I'm sure you're experiencing it's more about overall improvement and enlivening. I agree that the K701+amp is not a wholly 2x better experience than something like Koss KSC75 straight out of an iPod (listening to Calexico that way right now), BUT... don't you prefer it this way? Lol. Get used to it, and it'll be HARD to go back!

And yeah, the Recon3D USB + E12 + Q701 was good enoUgh for me, lol


----------



## Sarith

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Anyone here been playing with a T1 and the Mixamp alone?


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Considering the Teslas re more sensitive than the older Beyers, I'm sure the T1 and Mixamp are more than doable. Not ideal, but doable. The Mixamp can at least drive the 600ohm Beyers loudly, and so I feel the T1 would fare better off than those.
> 
> Of course, that's still far from ideal.


 
  While I did not do it very often I can confirm this. When I used the T1 with the Mixamp I had the volume at 12 o clock and the game/chat at 1:00 ish. The Mixamp was able to get the T1 more than loud enough but like MLE said it was less than ideal. I have the 5.1 Mixamp that was produced in 2009/2010.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Firefly,
> The U3 may "work" with OS X, but I'm assuming it doesn't add DH processing to multichannel audio, right? And that's the whole point of it, though it sounds like you have few Mac games... The Mac App Store and Steam catalogs are growing, FYI. I prefer Starcraft II in Mac, fewer bugs it seems (played HotS on PC, got weird shadows and looping audio), and some steam games if you buy one copy of the game, you can play it on either system (Like SW: the force unleashed. Weirdly it downloaded like 10x faster too).
> 
> Glad you're enjoying the E12! At some point people thought it's purpose was to be a bass machine, which is odd, but as I'm sure you're experiencing it's more about overall improvement and enlivening. I agree that the K701+amp is not a wholly 2x better experience than something like Koss KSC75 straight out of an iPod (listening to Calexico that way right now), BUT... don't you prefer it this way? Lol. Get used to it, and it'll be HARD to go back!
> ...


 
  I have a good friend that is a MAC user from the beginning of Apple. But he is also a gamer. He bought a PC two years age just because he wanted to have a real fast graphics card like the current Nvidia or AMD. He was sick and tired of either late and overpriced or never available cards. As Windows 7 came out he just went for it. Not to mention the sound possibilities he has now.......I think a serious gamer of current games should go PC or next gen consoles.


----------



## miceblue

Yo. I play games on my Mac, both on Mac and Windows.


----------



## Dillweed

So, the TH600s came in today. Since someone on the Denon/Fostex amp recommendation thread said that my Lovely Cube should be fine with the TH600s on the lowest gain setting, and I got basically the same response from the seller/builder of my Lovely Cube Premium, I'm trying them together to see how things sound.
   
  Initial impressions before any real breaking in (music only, short listening test): weird and kind of cool. I'm hearing things from instruments that I didn't pick up on the DT880s. Out of the box, some vocals also sound more natural, and some to the point where they're also slightly haunting/shiver-inducing (don't know how else to explain it). The bass is definitely more present and seemingly clearer than with the DT880. I'm still undecided on how I feel about that right now because of how little I've actually listened, but hopefully it's a sound I really enjoy. I think I still have a slightly bass-heavy op amp in the Lovely Cube so I probably need to put a more neutral one in to try to get a better idea of the TH600's completely natural tone. I might end up grabbing something like a Magni or O2 to see if my Lovely Cube is still colouring the sound too much, but I still have to let the headphones break in more before I'm willing to buy anything else right now. Still, the sound seems like it might actually just be cleaner in general compared to my DT880s (which you'd hope for at ~3 or 4 times the price).
   
  In any case, so far they seem good. A tentative "Thanks" to Happy Bullets for suggesting that I look into these things, because they do at least seem like a decent improvement over the DT880 so far. Hopefully I do really enjoy the sound for everything after they've had a better chance to break in and I give them more head time.


----------



## miceblue

Is there a way to have Windows remember the volume settings for certain devices? Mac seems to do that just fine.
e.g. Mac remembers max volume output for when the ODAC is connected, zero volume when disconnected, volume one for headphones.

Windows seems to just remember one volume setting...
e.g. Windows 7 remembers maximum volume output for ODAC and retains that maximum volume even when the ODAC is disconnected.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Is there a way to have Windows remember the volume settings for certain devices? Mac seems to do that just fine.
> e.g. Mac remembers max volume output for when the ODAC is connected, zero volume when disconnected, volume one for headphones.
> 
> Windows seems to just remember one volume setting...
> e.g. Windows 7 remembers maximum volume output for ODAC and retains that maximum volume even when the ODAC is disconnected.


 
   
  I have Windows on my laptop and it remembers the volume set for each device...
   
  I don't know what the issue may be...


----------



## Change is Good

Finished the last couple chapters that I had left on Dead Space 3. I must say it was a bit disappointing compared to the other two. And the story was awful... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Audio and positional cues were less than average, IMO.
   
  Now I'm on Metal Gear Rising. Audio and cues are ok, and the story seems interesting so far... very Kojimaish if I must say (even though he did not write this one). I'm still getting used to the hack n slash gameplay. It's never really been my style of liking.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm really interested in listening to the MA-900.

Ugh...


----------



## Hailin

mad lust envy said:


> I'm really interested in listening to the MA-900.
> 
> Ugh...




I would love to hear one.

For those of you in this thread that love your MadDogs, Dan has a brand new headphone coming out. Just wanted to let you guys know.


----------



## miceblue

You should at least post the link. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones


----------



## Hailin

Thanks Miceblue I am on my phone and lazy. I want a pair so bad though.


----------



## miceblue

I didn't like the speed of the Mad Dog, even version 3.2. But speeed with the Alpha Dog??? That's just plain awesome.


----------



## ethan7000

I wonder what materials can be used for a 3D printed headphone


----------



## Hailin

miceblue said:


> I didn't like the speed of the Mad Dog, even version 3.2. But speeed with the Alpha Dog??? That's just plain awesome.




I love my 3.1 they get way more head time then my DT990 600s and my CALs. To the point I am tempted to sell my Beyers to fund the upgrade. I will never part with my CALs, love them way to much.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Finished the last couple chapters that I had left on Dead Space 3. I must say it was a bit disappointing compared to the other two. And the story was awful...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I agree, it was dissapointing. I could only bear it with coop mode and the whole ice planet was pretty boring. Space chapters were definitely the best. Sound Design was worse than Dead Space 2 and 1 and both of them were already using a lot prebaked audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> You should at least post the link.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/676095/mrspeakers-alpha-dog-revealed-the-worlds-first-production-3d-printed-headphones



Hmm, seems very interesting. Not sure it will suit my specific tastes (I prefer warmer, medium speed, with bass emphasis), but it DOES seem to be a pure reference closed headphone. I really loved the MD 3.2, but it was definitely darker, warmer, and emotive, not exactly pure reference (which was perfectly fine for my tastes).

I'm happy for Dan. he's a real stand up guy. He deserves all the praise he gets. I'm a believer of the MD now, and I'm sure that those looking for a neutral, fast headphone won't be disappointed by the Alpha Dog.

The Mad Dog 3.2 is undoubtedly my favorite TRULY closed back headphone, and among my very faves period. I can only expect greatness from the Alpha Dogs, though in a different sense.


----------



## miceblue

I have to wonder how they compare to LFF's Paradox. His mod, according to people, makes the T50RP sound similar to the HE-500 in some ways, as opposed to the Mad Dog's LCD-2-esque sound. If that's the case, and the Alpha Dog had a different sound from the Mad Dog according to Jude, the Alpha Dog may be a stronger contender for a closed-back gaming headphone for me.


----------



## firefly89

pietcux said:


> It has three output options selected by pressing the volume knob:
> 
> Headphone
> Speakers
> ...




That's what im going to find out- I assume amazon returns policy is pretty painless (and there won't be a problem to return them after trying the for a few days? Do I get the full 30 days to return a used product, or jut the 7 day's 'distance selling regulations'?



evshrug said:


> Firefly,
> The U3 may "work" with OS X, but I'm assuming it doesn't add DH processing to multichannel audio, right? And that's the whole point of it, though it sounds like you have few Mac games... The Mac App Store and Steam catalogs are growing, FYI. I prefer Starcraft II in Mac, fewer bugs it seems (played HotS on PC, got weird shadows and looping audio), and some steam games if you buy one copy of the game, you can play it on either system (Like SW: the force unleashed. Weirdly it downloaded like 10x faster too).
> 
> Glad you're enjoying the E12! At some point people thought it's purpose was to be a bass machine, which is odd, but as I'm sure you're experiencing it's more about overall improvement and enlivening. I agree that the K701+amp is not a wholly 2x better experience than something like Koss KSC75 straight out of an iPod (listening to Calexico that way right now), BUT... don't you prefer it this way? Lol. Get used to it, and it'll be HARD to go back!
> ...




The e12 made such a difference, it was 3x better, and the bass was there- I love it! Was decided unimpressed without the amp but the e12 fixed everything
Just need to make sure I'm feeding it good material, will try the recon/u7 with the e12, see which sounds best, might try a proper USB dac too- if it's a lot lot better I'd be happy to run 2 soundcards and switch between dac for music/movies and recon for games
DH does horrible things to music, haven't tried a movie yet but tbh I think I'd likely keep the signal as pure as possible, DH adds too much distortion (but its good for games)

You're right, the u3 doesn't have drivers for osx, so it just sends out plain audio- th e only reason I use it is because it let's me connect that to a USB hub under the desk and plug my headphones into that, so they're not coming out my laptop- all I have connected to the laptop is: spare power lead and USB cable to go to us hub, which makes it easy to grab and go when I need to, my desk is pretty minimal...



pietcux said:


> I have a good friend that is a MAC user from the beginning of Apple. But he is also a gamer. He bought a PC two years age just because he wanted to have a real fast graphics card like the current Nvidia or AMD. He was sick and tired of either late and overpriced or never available cards. As Windows 7 came out he just went for it. Not to mention the sound possibilities he has now.......I think a serious gamer of current games should go PC or next gen consoles.




ATM I'm perfectly happy with the 650m in my laptop, the rest of the spec is 16gb, 2.7ghz quad core, 512gb ssd- best you could get, will get a thunderbolt gpu, or build a gaming pc if this ever gets out of date
I also have a ps3

I used to have an amazing gaming rig, but sold it 

The mac I use for work, but when I realised how powerful it was I started gaming on it in bootcamp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm warming up to the HP-800. It's definitely a headphone you have to spend like a week with. 

I don't know if it's because I've now paired it up with the E12, but it sounds so much better than I initially thought. I'm quite fond of it. It's still definitely bassy as all hell, and warmer than basically anything I've used of late, but it's quite enjoyable and fatigue free. I'm digging the sound.


----------



## Dillweed

So, I've figured out that either the Lovely Cube amp, or a combination of the amp and any non-Audio Creation mode on the Titanium HD, seems to be causing a weird blending/muffling of the lower frequencies on the TH600 (and likely also the DT 880 before it), making it sound kind of congested. I guess this is probably a case where a slightly more detail-oriented or analytical-sounding amp could potentially help where the Lovely Cube can't. From what little I've read, something like the O2 or Magni might fit that bill. Anybody have experience with either of those amps? This is probably just another case where I'd have to buy something to find out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I owned the Magni. It's a very neutral if just ever so slightly on the brighter side of neutral. Very crisp and clean. So it may be slightly leaning on detail retrieval than musicality. I stress slightly.

In other news,

The Nuforce HP-800 review is mostly written in, at least in terms of basic characteristics. I have a LOT of gaming to do with them, so don't expect the review too soon, but I do have a huge portion written in.

I'm hoping to score the M50LE, CAL, and SLYR to compare, though I make no promises.

I eventually want to re-write the CAL and M50 reviews to my more evolved review writing style.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





dillweed said:


> So, I've figured out that either the Lovely Cube amp, or a combination of the amp and any non-Audio Creation mode on the Titanium HD, seems to be causing a weird blending/muffling of the lower frequencies on the TH600 (and likely also the DT 880 before it), making it sound kind of congested. I guess this is probably a case where a slightly more detail-oriented or analytical-sounding amp could potentially help where the Lovely Cube can't. From what little I've read, something like the O2 or Magni might fit that bill. Anybody have experience with either of those amps? This is probably just another case where I'd have to buy something to find out.


 
  Are you connecting the Lovely cube to the Titanium HD's headphone jack or RCA's (hopefully the RCAs)?


----------



## xEzio

Thanks for this guide! Loving my Q701's so far. But I wanna try the DT990 now!


----------



## Dillweed

Quote: 





purpleangel said:


> Are you connecting the Lovely cube to the Titanium HD's headphone jack or RCA's (hopefully the RCAs)?


 
  Straight out of the RCA line outs. It's pretty much been that way since I got it.


----------



## mvrk10256

Did some GTA on my recently acquired Fidelio L1's. I would say they are 95% fo the X1 and soo well made. However they are a touch heavy, and a touch tight. 
   
  For all around gaming I still love my AD700s.


----------



## firefly89

for what its worth:
   
  what i've discovered so far
   
  1) k701 sound bad without an amp, so bad that onboard sound+amp sounds better than a fancy expensive soundcard without the amp
  2) the xonar u7 sounds way better than the u3, it's less harsh, it's less metallic sounding (vocals sound more natural and less hiss), the SNR is a lot less, but it's actually not as loud as the u3 (at least without driver support on osx) maybe the smoother sound isnt great for games though but it did bring out some smaller details in the mix so maybe it's actually better? xonar u7 seems to have a slight echo/reverb to the sound, sounds nice but i'm no expert
  3) spdif output on u3 never works on osx
  4) spdif output on u7 works perfectly on osx, and so does 7.1 channel analogue
  5) xonar u7 looks great, feels great, xonar u3 looks and feels like a cheap product
   
   
  still got to compare dolby home theatre, to dolby headphone- and I will try out the recon if it ever gets here (says not shipped yet from amazon)
   
  will test if xonar u7 can do dolby digital live, I suspect it can though (in windows)
   
  also ordered a few other dac's and amps, will test those and find one I like best


----------



## Dillweed

[snip] Never mind my rambling. I'm just going to figure out what needs to be done.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess if you play on OSX, the U7 makes more sense, but if you have your own dac and amp and game on windows, the U7 is completely unnecessary. All those specs are for the internal dac and amps in those devices, which are both bypassed with a proper U3 setup.

I've said more than a few times, unless you're gonna send the signal from the U3's spdif out to another dac an amp, don't bother. It's a horrible amp, most of all. YOU SHOULD NOT BE ATTACHING ANY HEADPHONE TO IT DIRECTLY.

Doesn't matter how cheap the U3 looks. It should be well hidden behind your main dac and amp anyways, not a show piece.


----------



## mpawluk91

Ok so which version of the mixamp should I get? I want crispy clean 7.1 with good bass 

I'm looking for the absolute best solution


----------



## Happy Bullets

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> Ok so which version of the mixamp should I get? I want crispy clean 7.1 with good bass
> 
> I'm looking for the absolute best solution


 
  From what I remember, and I may be lying to you, the 2013 version was a total piece when it came to hiss but has EQ settings. The version before that which I think was the 2011? seemed to be the best all around.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I went and bought something on sheer impulse. I'll let you guys speculate what it is, and I won't even hint at what it is until it's in my hands. I'll simply say that I got it off Ebay with my Bill Me Later account, so I have 6 months to pay it, which isn't gonna be hard as it's not that expensive. I couldn't wait anymore. These impulses will be the end of me.



happy bullets said:


> From what I remember, and I may be lying to you, the 2013 version was a total piece when it came to hiss but has EQ settings. The version before that which I think was the 2011? seemed to be the best all around.




This.

The Mixamp rolls off the bass under 35hz, meaning the bass under that is going to be basically absent. I actually found that not to be a major issue as 35hz and above is usually where most bass is on sources anyways...

I LITERALLY felt that 35hz was like the best frequency for bass to my ears. Sheer coincidence.

But yes, Get a non-2013 Mixamp for the cleanest signal. If you value voice chat from a USB source (i.e. PS3), don't get the original Mixamp, as the usb port is JUST for power.


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> But yes, Get a non-2013 Mixamp for the cleanest signal. If you value voice chat from a USB source (i.e. PS3), don't get the original Mixamp, as the usb port is JUST for power.


 
  What do you mean by "original Mixamp"? I recently ordered myself the 2011 version and I'm planning to use it partially also for PS3 chat, mainly skype on PC. As far as I know the Mixamps voice in-/output goes through USB but now you are saying that it is JUST for power?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

zack117 said:


> What do you mean by "original Mixamp"? I recently ordered myself the 2011 version and I'm planning to use it partially also for PS3 chat, mainly skype on PC. As far as I know the Mixamps voice in-/output goes through USB but now you are saying that it is JUST for power?










This is the OG mixamp with no USB chat.

If your Mixamp looks like this:



You're fine.


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> You're fine.


 
  Puh, thanks for enlightenment. I was scared of spending almost 100€ on a wrong device...
   
  EDIT:
  btw. this one here may be useful for the guide, as people who want to build an audiophile gaming setup most likely intend to prepare themselves also for the next gens:
   
   
  Quote: 





> *We Asked Astro About Next-Gen Gaming Headsets And The Xbox One*
> 
> In this month's issue, we revealed that the Xbox One won't come with a headset packed in. This news caught a second burst of attention this week, so we decided to catch up with one of gaming's premiere headset manufacturers to see how they are approaching next generation consoles.
> 
> ...


 
  source: neogaf.com
   
  Of course this is all not 100% confirmed yet, still it should be taken in consideration imho.


----------



## burritoboy9984

zack117 said:


> Puh, thanks for enlightenment. I was scared of spending almost 100€ on a wrong device...
> 
> EDIT:
> btw. this one here may be useful for the guide, as people who want to build an audiophile gaming setup most likely intend to prepare themselves also for the next gens:
> ...




I believe most of this has changed regarding the Xbox One since this was posted.

-Erik


----------



## dakanao

Why do people get the mixamp over the DSS?


----------



## Change is Good

For chat purposes with a headphone without a built in mic.



dakanao said:


> Why do people get the mixamp over the DSS?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





dakanao said:


> Why do people get the mixamp over the DSS?


 
   
  Voice chat.
   
  The mixamp supports and MIXES voice chat from headsets, the DSS doesn't support them (only some turtle beach headsets with USB).


----------



## dakanao

Hmm I see. I don't need a mic for my gaming sessions.


----------



## mpawluk91

Well my mic I'll be using is the inline mic that's on the cable for the ue 6000

I want to be able to plug my headphones into the mixamp and have mic support all with the same cable,

Can the 2011 mixamp do this for me?


----------



## Evshrug

Mpawluk91,
Your name is a little hard to remember...
The Mixamp from 2011 will do that for you, if it comes with or you buy a TRRS Y-split cable to separate the mic input and sound output into two plugs, and your console isn't a PS3 that requires USB chat input (the very first Mixamp didn't support this, Mad just posted a pic a page or two back).

I personally don't bother, the only game I can't adjust down the game volume where I really think it needs it, is Halo 4. So, I just have a lapel mic plugged directly into the controller.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> Why do people get the mixamp over the DSS?




Also the pre-2013 wired Mixamps have considerably less hiss than the DSS.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So I went and bought something on sheer impulse. I'll let you guys speculate what it is, and I won't even hint at what it is until it's in my hands. I'll simply say that I got it off Ebay with my Bill Me Later account, so I have 6 months to pay it, which isn't gonna be hard as it's not that expensive. I couldn't wait anymore. These impulses will be the end of me.
> This.


 
   
  If its headphones, I say the Momentum on ear. If it's gear... I have no clue...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. I got to hear the Momentum, and while I liked their sound sig, I wasn't a fan of the pads. Both because they aren't velour, and because despite what people say, those are only over ear for a fraction of the world's population. They sit completely on ear for me.

There would be a bigger chance for me to get the Momentum on ear instead because I heard it's v-shaped and more bassy (which I prefer at least for portable music use), and because the pads aren't leather/pleather. Since both Momentums sit on ear, my OCD tendencies would lead me to rather get one designed to be on ear in the first place.

That being said...


----------



## Change is Good

Yea that's what I said... the on ear momentum. So am I right? lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I missed you saying that.

If I told you, then that would be telling.


----------



## mpawluk91

evshrug said:


> Mpawluk91,
> Your name is a little hard to remember...
> The Mixamp from 2011 will do that for you, if it comes with or you buy a TRRS Y-split cable to separate the mic input and sound output into two plugs, and your console isn't a PS3 that requires USB chat input (the very first Mixamp didn't support this, Mad just posted a pic a page or two back).
> 
> I personally don't bother, the only game I can't adjust down the game volume where I really think it needs it, is Halo 4. So, I just have a lapel mic plugged directly into the controller.


I do play ps3


----------



## mpawluk91

If the mixamp had a line out for external amp that would be awesome


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That'll be the day...


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Also the pre-2013 wired Mixamps have considerably less hiss than the DSS.


 
  The hiss isn't a problem for me with the DSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didn't say it was a problem, just that the wired pre-2013 Mixamps have considerably less of it. For those who want the cleanest signal, the Mixamp is a better choice.


----------



## benbenkr

Uhm... since we're on topic for voice chat on the PS3, I just want to let you guys know that there is a work around for it if you are using the original Mixamp or the TB DSS.
   
*Get a bluetooth mic*. Any will be fine, but a clip-on like this will be ideal.
   
  Then go to Settings > Acessory Settings > Audio Device Settings
  Your input device should be your bluetooth mic, BUT set your output device to System Default Device (this will go to your DSS, thus to your headphone).
   
  Also, set Stereo Heaset Audio Extension to > On so all audio goes to your headphones. If this is set to off, only the chat audio will go to your headphones while in-game audio will go to your speakers.
   
  After that, well you're done.
  You basically get a wireless mic where you don't have to dangle 2 wires off your desk resulting in even messier cables around the place.
  Most bluetooth mics now a days have a control where you can set the incoming volume from your friends, so another problem fixed for needing any voice chat volume control.
  Otherwise, most games with MP has volume controls for chat volume as well.
   
  I'm personally doing this and has been doing it for a very long time. It's a good work around for those who cannot get a Mixamp pre-2013 (because it is increasingly hard to get and it's being sold for a stupidly high price right now).
   
  Hope this helps.


----------



## Naingolann

Brilliant. Now, to find the european equivalent of that thing...


----------



## mpawluk91

I would just cut the earbud off of it and clip it on my shirt


----------



## mpawluk91

So has anyone here double amped the mix amp? I would just plug my arrow 4g or my c&c bh into the headphone jack and run my cans off the amp, 

But the real question is do I need the extra boost? No doubt the external amp will add quality and real eq switches but I don't know how clean the mix amp's headphone out is.

I've never heard a mixamp or a dss2, the only true 5.1 headset I ever owned was the tritton pro + and it was crap, it had no freakin bass man I was pissed


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Everyone here double amps the Mixamp. Its the only way to power some harder to drive cans properly.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





naingolann said:


> Brilliant. Now, to find the european equivalent of that thing...


 
  It doesn't nessasarily needs to be an i-tech bluetooth, anything as long as it is bluetooth 2.0 compatible then it will work with the PS3.
  If you want, you can even get the official PlayStation bluetooth mic and just hang it around your neck or something.
   
  Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> I would just cut the earbud off of it and clip it on my shirt


 
   
  Haha, no you shouldn't because there is a button on the earbud that acts as the on/off switch.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why is the Creative Aurvana Live so damn good? Gah, if ONLY it had velour pads. 

Borrowing it again to compare to the HP-800... and it just blows me away.


----------



## mpawluk91

mad lust envy said:


> Why is the Creative Aurvana Live so damn good? Gah, if ONLY it had velour pads.
> 
> Borrowing it again to compare to the HP-800... and it just blows me away.


I have some shure srh840 headphones and I bought the velour pads for it (the pads from the srh940) and honestly it ruined the sound. It took away almost all the bass and muddied up the sound all together. I think they don't seal as well, I really just think pleather is the way to go, and they're just as comfortable to me at least


----------



## benbenkr

Only thing I don't like about the CALs is that my ears touch the drivers, especially my antihelix as it protudes out more than my helix. So the CALs became completely unusable after 40+ minutes of my ears pressing against the drivers.


----------



## Hailin

I know the HM5 pads fit on the CALs, I also know there is now an angled pad for the HM5. http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_66627_NVX-XRE100A.html?creative=21997576328&device=m&network=s&matchtype=p&gclid=CIL02uT89bgCFed_Qgod5F8A0Q they might help with your driver issue. I don't know if they fit. Just saying they might.


----------



## Naingolann

I do double amp the DSS. It helps a lot with harder to drive HPs and makes those little ohm ones dead silent, no hiss, no anything. It just works.

MLE, I wish you'd try the JVC S500...or even its little brother, the S400. I would love to read your opinion on them.


----------



## ethan7000

I double amp the DSS as well without issue


----------



## Change is Good

FiiO has a new product coming out...
   
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000048596648&MenuID=105026003
   
  It has optical in and out... so I wonder how this can be used for our gaming rigs. Anyone care to chime in?


----------



## Kazon

I just bought the Phillips Fidelio X1 and after reading everything I can't seem to make up my mind on what to get for the dolby 7.1 amp. If I got the DSS would that alone be a good enough amp for the X1?
  Also I don't want the hiss the mixamp pro 2013 gives you so searching for the 2011 version and I think I found it on ebay for $96. is that a rip?
   
  Also I am not totally sure its the 7.1 mixamp cause the nobs in volume control look different in the picture. you can find it on ebay if you search for the following.
  "NEW MixAmp Pro Only For Astro A40 Gaming"
   
  anyways what do you guys think I am better off with? I am not super concerned about using a mic right now.
   
  Thanks


----------



## ethan7000

I don't go direct out of the DSS, but I've tried it and it's fine for the X1.  Considering you can get the DSS v1 for $25 on ebay, it's not much of a risk.


----------



## crazyg0od33

I was looking into the beyerdynamic custom one pro headphones. Any idea how those stack up? I'd be using the astro mixamp with them for my consoles, but not so much for the PC. I also want then for music so that was a big point for me.

On the mic side I'm looking at the beyerdynamic mic for the COP's but it's $80 
I don't know if v-moda's boompro mic would work with it but that one is only $30. 

What do you guys think?


----------



## Eric_C

crazygood33: why not get the AntLion modmic?


----------



## crazyg0od33

eric_c said:


> crazygood33: why not get the AntLion modmic?


I own the modmic actually and while I like it, I'm not a huge fan of the secondary extra long cable hanging off the side of the headphones, and I don't really want to stick something to the side of them (although with the removable plates that wouldn't be the biggest issue)


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





kazon said:


> I just bought the Phillips Fidelio X1 and after reading everything I can't seem to make up my mind on what to get for the dolby 7.1 amp. If I got the DSS would that alone be a good enough amp for the X1?
> Also I don't want the hiss the mixamp pro 2013 gives you so searching for the 2011 version and I think I found it on ebay for $96. is that a rip?
> 
> Also I am not totally sure its the 7.1 mixamp cause the nobs in volume control look different in the picture. you can find it on ebay if you search for the following.
> ...


 
   
  I think it's stupid to pay $96 (and this is excluding shipping?) for a mixamp, especially when it's primary use is only going to be its DSP; Dolby Headphones.
   
  I'd go with the DSS if I were you.


----------



## Zack117

Just received my Mixamp 2011. Using the Y-cable with amplified (E09k) headphones results in considerably, unbearable noises, hiss, whistle etc. Also at lower volume. Using the same setup without the Y-cable reduces that noise by far. In turn the Y-cable'd mixamp without external amp doesn't give a single noise - absolute silence. Could someone here tell me if he's also experiencing these issues? IF even issues, maybe that's normal.
  First I thought the Y-cable was broken, but the absolutely silence when not using an external amp means that it is working fine. This again would mean, the eventually issue goes deeper than my wallet can bear...
   
  Besides that, the headphone jack of the mixamp gives me a quite cheap impression. Slightly movements on the jack result in loud distortion noise. Maybe the seller just gave me a partially broken device...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, that sounds like the Fiio E9K is adding some bad noise. IT SHOULDN'T.

Try using the Fiio E9K alone to see if you still get bad noise. I mean like use it for music use or something. For example, plug it to the PS3 via the PS3's composite cables, or 360's red/white audio cables. Not sure what you're using.

It could be a few things. Could be whatever wall outlet/power strip you're connecting the E9K to. Could be a bad power adapter. etc. This isn't impossible, as I found my Audio-GD devices to have some noise off one of my power strips, and not the other.

Just make sure it's not the E9k alone.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, it has to be a ground loop issue. I get it with my M-Stage on certain wall outlets and not on others. I think there's a ground loop adapter you can buy or something. I, personally, haven't gotten around to it because I can only hear it on higher gains (which I never really use).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, don't be disheartened. The E9K itself should be dead silent for the most part.

Hmm, comparing the CAL to the HP-800... I THOUGHT they'd be at least somewhat similar due to both of them being warm and bassy, but even the CAL sounds bright next to the HP-800. The HP-800 is just a helluva warm/dark headphone.

I still don't understand why people have such a problem with the CAL's cups/pads. Yeah, it's shallow, but there is not much clamping pressure. I consider it a very comfortable on ear, even though my ears do basically fit inside. Yeah, it pushes against my ears, but it's still one of the most comfortable pleather padded headphones I've ever used. 

Tested the Sennheiser Momentum again, yesterday at best Buy. MAN, those are some remarkable sounding headphones. I DO think my ears do MOSTLY fit inside the cups, even if they partially rest on the pads, but I don't find them to be uncomfortable. DAT SOUND is sooooo good. I have no need for them, but I WOULD love to own them.

Definitely the best sounding closed headphone I've ever heard in tonality, balance, and refinement. the Mad Dogs 3.2 is more agreeable to my bassy tendencies, but I think overall, the Momentum has the better mix of bass, mids, and treble for general uses.

Also spent more time with the HD558. That headphone is just impressive. I'd love to review them here. I think they'd be a hit. I really do prefer it over the 598, and it's cheaper.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I wish I could send you gear to review even more headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, it's cool. 

So, I'm feeling a bit under the weather and lost my voice, and so I'm just here sitting down completing the HP-800 review for the most part, as well as CURRENTLY rewriting my CAL review. So that will at least be something new to read. I'll release the rewritten CAL review with the HP-800 review in a few days.

I'll probably rewrite the M50 review soon as well, though it will be of the M50LE variant, which some people swear sounds better than the OG M50. I don't think so, but I'll make a note of it in the review.

That one comes later.

I just want to fix a lot of my older reviews with headphones I still have access to, and update them to my newer review style. That means both the KSC75 and 35 will get the same treatment in the future.

*edit: E12, CAL, and HP800 (mostly) complete! I'll put up all three at once, just NOT YET.*


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, that sounds like the Fiio E9K is adding some bad noise. IT SHOULDN'T.
> 
> Try using the Fiio E9K alone to see if you still get bad noise. I mean like use it for music use or something. For example, plug it to the PS3 via the PS3's composite cables, or 360's red/white audio cables. Not sure what you're using.
> 
> ...


 
  Ok, I tried different connections now. The E09k is just how it should be - perfect. It sounds clean as always if not connected to mixamp, but my regular source. I assume the problem lies in the Y-cable or the Mixamp itself. I also just noticed an internal break on the Y-cable (headphone jack side), causing sound issues when groping the particular spot on cable. Hopefully it's just the cable, that'd be the cheapest solution for me. Anyway, I'll get a new one.
   
  Still, I'm very confused. Even without connecting the Y-cable, something's not right and it also seems, the distortion noise has nothing to do with the source, because it still occurs - even without any connected source. Of course except USB for powering and this is where it gets weird: If my Mixamp is connected via USB to PS3, lowest possible hiss/noise. If connected via USB to PC then considerably more noise (more noise added when I scroll with my mouse, lol). I also tried different USB-Ports - no use. I mean USB is THE cleanest connection method in audio section, just don't get it...
   
*What's weirder: If I use my E17 Alpen instead of E09k as an external amp (aux in) and WITH the broken Y-cable there's no noise at all. It works fine. Just like plugging the headphones directly to the Mixamp, like I mentioned above. My head hurts...*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My USB ports on my desktop PC were noisy as hell. I had to use a USB hub to bypass it when using my USB dacs. Thankfully, my laptop has quiet USB ports.

I'm sorry i can't be of more use. I don't normally have issues like that.

Though I did find my current Mixamp distorts at max volume when double amping, (which didn't happen with my older Mixamps), so I've lowered the master volume to around 70%.


----------



## Zack117

Thanks for your support! My main problem may be solved with a new Y-cable and if not, I'll hopefully figure something out.


----------



## timnswede

Has anyone heard anything more about the Audio Technica gaming headsets? http://thegamerspad.net/audio-technica-gaming-headsets-paxaus/
   
  Can't really find anything about them on google, I thought they would have gotten more attention since the AD700 are so popular for gaming.


----------



## Zack117

Just asking for curiosity, the "MP3" input of the Mixamp is basically the same as the RCA input, right? Feeding a source in one of them won't make any difference, as they are both encoded to Dolby Headphone. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe you're wrong. I may have to check when I'm home. Either way, NEITHER will be converted to Dolby Headphone. You need to use a digital source with Dolby Digital enabled. Analog sources like rca and the mp3 are basic stereo. Turning on the DH is just adding reverb to the RCA signal. The MP3 signal isn't affected by the DH button whatsoever.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Just received my Mixamp 2011. Using the Y-cable with amplified (E09k) headphones results in considerably, unbearable noises, hiss, whistle etc. Also at lower volume.


 
   
  Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Ok, I tried different connections now. The E09k is just how it should be - perfect. It sounds clean as always if not connected to mixamp, but my regular source.
> 
> Still, I'm very confused. Even without connecting the Y-cable, something's not right and it also seems, the distortion noise has nothing to do with the source, because it still occurs - even without any connected source.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> Yea, it has to be a ground loop issue. I get it with my M-Stage on certain wall outlets and not on others. I think there's a ground loop adapter you can buy or something. I, personally, haven't gotten around to it because I can only hear it on higher gains (which I never really use).


 
   
   
  Like Change is Good said, it sounds like it could be a ground loop issue.  I think that would explain why you don't get noises when using the battery powered E17, and why the noise goes away when you use either the mixamp or E09K separately. 
   
  Apart from that, you may also be using a "noisy" USB port for power (try testing it using batteries for power), and it sounds like some of your connectors like the mixamp's HP jack and the Y connectorare a little flakey.
   

 But the underlying noise issue sounds like it's a ground loop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my E17 came in.... here is the ridiculous frankenstein needed for an E17+12 setup...



I'll be running the E17 through the USB dac, and whenever I game on PC, I'll hook up the spdif from the U3 to to the E17's spdif in. That in effect makes the D03k.... obsolete, but oh well...


----------



## firefly89

mad lust envy said:


> So my E17 came in.... here is the ridiculous frankenstein needed for an E17+12 setup...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be running the E17 through the USB dac, and whenever I game on PC, I'll hook up the spdif from the U3 to to the E17's spdif in. That in effect makes the D03k.... obsolete, but oh well...




Ha I use the exact same set up, but I also have an audioengine d1 to compare as dac
So much detail with the k701 I got chopper gunner in every game


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What annoys me is that the Fiio right angle cables are TOO short, and get in the way of the E12's volume knob... I had to resort to one of my ancient Astro Mixamp cables...


----------



## miceblue

The E12 has quite possibly the worst user interface I've experienced in a portable headphone amplifier...

If the input and output ports were switched, the right-angle adaptor wouldn't be an issue. Instead, I use the straight LOD to access the volume knob but then the whole thing is way too long in my pocket an is just plain awkward to handle.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pocket use isn't an issue, as it's only for transportable/laptop use. I'm just pained by how bad the cable management is. They need to hurry up and make a dac that is more ideal with the E12... or at least an E12 w/dac.

The L7 LOD on the E17 drives me nuts as well...it feels awkward/flimsy.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> Ok, I tried different connections now. The E09k is just how it should be - perfect. It sounds clean as always if not connected to mixamp, but my regular source. I assume the problem lies in the Y-cable or the Mixamp itself. I also just noticed an internal break on the Y-cable (headphone jack side), causing sound issues when groping the particular spot on cable. Hopefully it's just the cable, that'd be the cheapest solution for me. Anyway, I'll get a new one.
> 
> Still, I'm very confused. Even without connecting the Y-cable, something's not right and it also seems, the distortion noise has nothing to do with the source, because it still occurs - even without any connected source. Of course except USB for powering and this is where it gets weird: If my Mixamp is connected via USB to PS3, lowest possible hiss/noise. If connected via USB to PC then considerably more noise (more noise added when I scroll with my mouse, lol). I also tried different USB-Ports - no use. I mean USB is THE cleanest connection method in audio section, just don't get it...
> 
> *What's weirder: If I use my E17 Alpen instead of E09k as an external amp (aux in) and WITH the broken Y-cable there's no noise at all. It works fine. Just like plugging the headphones directly to the Mixamp, like I mentioned above. My head hurts...*


 
   
  USB on a desktop is the dirtiest connection on a desktop, period.
  This is one the reason why USB headsets are stupid. Your USB's I/O is shared with a multitude of sources, not just a mouse and keyboard. It also routes itself from the ethernet port, also adding to the fact there's so many other components nearby (PCI-E slots for example). 
   
  A laptop is usually a non-issue because it really only shares its I/O with... well, a mouse if you have one connected.
   
  I'm fairly sure as the others have said, you have a grounding loop issue. Your power supply isn't grounded properly or your power extension strip is faulty.
  When I first got my E09k, I had an issue with slight distortion when the volume pot is over 12 o'clock. I just needed to change my power strip and problem was fixed after that.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> So my E17 came in.... here is the ridiculous frankenstein needed for an E17+12 setup...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be running the E17 through the USB dac, and whenever I game on PC, I'll hook up the spdif from the U3 to to the E17's spdif in. That in effect makes the D03k.... obsolete, but oh well...


 
  You might want to try the Xonar U7 instead. One device no cable hassle. And as I now can say it sounds more refined than than the Fiio E12. You can run any source @ 192/24. Sounds great.


----------



## crazyg0od33

I think I'm gonna go with the beyerdynamic custom one pro.  I like the looks, and if they sound good, I'm no audiophile so i think they should be good to go


----------



## Change is Good

Metal Gear Rising was surprisingly good... but extremely short. The audio and positional cues were superb, though.


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





crazyg0od33 said:


> I think I'm gonna go with the beyerdynamic custom one pro.  I like the looks, and if they sound good, I'm no audiophile so i think they should be good to go


 
  I could try them one time in a shop. They sound quite good and the bass switch works audible. Very interesting can. Only the earpads are not as deep as other Beyers I tried. So if you have large outer ears they might touch the driver baffle.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pietcux said:


> You might want to try the Xonar U7 instead. One device no cable hassle. And as I now can say it sounds more refined than than the Fiio E12. You can run any source @ 192/24. Sounds great.




The U7 doesn't even begin to come close to the E12's power. I'm sure it's a great source, but power leaves dsomething to be desired, and it doesn't have posted output impedances, etc. Again, since the U3 is a lot cheaper and I can bypass all of it's internal nonsense for an exterior dac/amp, there is no need for the U7 to me. All I'm taking from the U3 is the digital data. 0s and 1s.

All the main Xonar devices have at least 10ohm output impedances, including the higher end models compared to the U7. The E12 is near 0.


----------



## firefly89

mad lust envy said:


> The U7 doesn't even begin to come close to the E12's power. I'm sure it's a great source, but power leaves dsomething to be desired, and it doesn't have posted output impedances, etc. Again, since the U3 is a lot cheaper and I can bypass all of it's internal nonsense for an exterior dac/amp, there is no need for the U7 to me. All I'm taking from the U3 is the digital data. 0s and 1s.
> 
> All the main Xonar devices have at least 10ohm output impedances, including the higher end models compared to the U7. The E12 is near 0.




Agreed, tried the u7, no power, and also quite metallic sounding- as if it was trying to be audiophile but just couldn't manage it. Better dac/amp than the u3 but no where near as good as the fiio e17/audioengine d1- you pay for it though, in $$$ and in complexity in setup


----------



## pietcux

Did you set the swich to usb 2.0? It is on the underside of the device. When set to 2.0 and to high gain in the software, it can drive my AKG K702 quite well. And there is no metallic sound to be found.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The specs shown for the U7 are quite weak. It may drive something to loud volumes, but volume =/= driving force. The Mixamp alone can drive 600 ohm headphones to ear splitting levels. Its still a very weak amp.


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Like Change is Good said, it sounds like it could be a ground loop issue.  I think that would explain why you don't get noises when using the battery powered E17, and why the noise goes away when you use either the mixamp or E09K separately.
> 
> Apart from that, you may also be using a "noisy" USB port for power (try testing it using batteries for power), and it sounds like some of your connectors like the mixamp's HP jack and the Y connectorare a little flakey.
> 
> ...


 
  Yeah, that should be it. I also assume that the ground conductor or something of the Y-cable is broken, because by groping that cable the noise gets louder or quieter. New one should arrive in the next 6 days, I ordered one with iphone standard pinout, 4 pole. L,R,GND,MIC. Hopefully that's the assignment what the Mixamp jack is using.
  Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> USB on a desktop is the dirtiest connection on a desktop, period.
> This is one the reason why USB headsets are stupid. Your USB's I/O is shared with a multitude of sources, not just a mouse and keyboard. It also routes itself from the ethernet port, also adding to the fact there's so many other components nearby (PCI-E slots for example).
> 
> A laptop is usually a non-issue because it really only shares its I/O with... well, a mouse if you have one connected.
> ...


 
  I tried to use a completely different power socket with the E09k, just like you told me. Sadly no difference. What I noticed, as soon as the USB plug of the mixamp even touches the frame of a PC/PS3 - USB bus, the same noise gets slightly hearable - same the other way, with the USB bus of the mixamp. And with turning the Mixamp on, it reaches his usually, uncomfortable volume level.
   
  MLE said some posts ago, that he'd got a separate USB hub to solve that kind of problem. You folks think, this would solve my problem too? I tried a USB extention cable, without success. A USB splitter may work different...


----------



## Evshrug

timnswede said:


> Has anyone heard anything more about the Audio Technica gaming headsets? http://thegamerspad.net/audio-technica-gaming-headsets-paxaus/
> 
> Can't really find anything about them on google, I thought they would have gotten more attention since the AD700 are so popular for gaming.




This... Could be amazing.

By the wording in the article, it could be the usual 3D wing system, or it could be "redesigned from the ground up" and finally fit European/Caucasian narrower heads without bending the headband in a few places. The earpad design could also use a bit of refinement to be more circumaural, it's big enough to be entirely circumaural but I believe they made the pads broader and shallow-ish so that the drivers could be closer to your ear and the pads are a bit on-ear to keep the middle ridge in your ear from touching the driver casing. In any case, with my size ears and head, the AD700 was the most comfortable headphone to wear for long marathon sessions once I had bent the headband bars in 3 places and put tension between the wings via a rubber-band.

The treble could benefit from a touch of refinement (may not happen in a made-for-gaming headphone), but I think the main thing people wished for with the AD700 was at least a bit more bass extension, which apparently they could achieve just by making the earpads more dense or experimenting with different wraps around the outside facing ring of the pads to seal in some of the acoustics... Apparently some Head-Fi'ers have experimented with Saran Wrap and achieved a massive (perhaps even overdone) increase in bass, so these cans have the potential.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll call it first. ADG1 = AD700 w/mic, AG1 = A700 with w/mic


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, probably, but if they're going to change the internal plastic part to make it red (or the outside edge of the A700 yellow), then they could at least also localize the headband fit for Europe and NA by using a shorter bar.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anybody mentioned the new Creative Headsets yet? The ZxR for 299€. Jesus. 
   
http://de.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets


----------



## burritoboy9984

Does anyone remember the Mixamp alternative that came out about 6 months ago, and looked like it had a ton of options? I can't remember what it was called, and can't seem to find it.

Thanks
-Erik


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Anybody mentioned the new Creative Headsets yet? The ZxR for 299€. Jesus.
> 
> http://de.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets


 
  In case you're not German: http://www.soundblaster.com/products/Sound-Blaster-EVO-ZxR.aspx
   
  Looks interesting, I've been impressed by the new Z line of sound cards.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> I tried to use a completely different power socket with the E09k, just like you told me. Sadly no difference. *What I noticed, as soon as the USB plug of the mixamp even touches the frame of a PC/PS3* - USB bus, the same noise gets slightly hearable - same the other way, with the USB bus of the mixamp. And with turning the Mixamp on, it reaches his usually, uncomfortable volume level.
> 
> MLE said some posts ago, that he'd got a separate USB hub to solve that kind of problem. You folks think, this would solve my problem too? I tried a USB extention cable, without success. A USB splitter may work different...


 
   
  Wait, just the outer casing of your PC and there's already static and distortion?
   
  Perhaps you've tried this or perhaps not, but is your PC/PS3 properly grounded as well? Because it seems like anything that is electric conductive is causing the noise.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Quote: 





zack117 said:


> What I noticed, as soon as the USB plug of the mixamp even touches the frame of a PC/PS3 - USB bus, the same noise gets slightly hearable - same the other way, with the USB bus of the mixamp. And with turning the Mixamp on, it reaches his usually, uncomfortable volume level.


 
   
  I noticed the same exact issue, I started using my phone charger instead of the xbox to power it, and the hum went away. Oddly enough, one charger made the hum present and another one didn't. Guess that one had the same issue as the Xbox.
   
  -Erik


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





timnswede said:


> Has anyone heard anything more about the Audio Technica gaming headsets? http://thegamerspad.net/audio-technica-gaming-headsets-paxaus/
> 
> Can't really find anything about them on google, I thought they would have gotten more attention since the AD700 are so popular for gaming.


 
  I see Audio-Technica finally caught on to the AD700's gaming popularity...
   
  "Other features of the headsets include a *USB DAC (Digital Analogue Converter)* engineered for the new line"
   
  ...if the headset's hard-wired to said DAC, that's an instant deal-breaker for PC gamers with sound cards and console gamers alike.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'll call it first. ADG1 = AD700 w/mic, AG1 = A700 with w/mic


 
   
   
  Well...AD700*X*/A700*X* w/mic.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> By the wording in the article, it could be the usual 3D wing system, or it could be "redesigned from the ground up" and finally fit European/Caucasian narrower heads without bending the headband in a few places.


 
   
  It looks like it will fit similar to the AD700X, which means it won't pivot vertically - same as the AD700.
   
   
  Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> ...if the headset's hard-wired to said DAC, that's an instant deal-breaker for PC gamers with sound cards and console gamers alike.


 
   
  Hopefully Audio Technica wasn't stupid enough terminate it to a USB DAC instead of using universal headset plug....


----------



## Kamakahah

Hey MLE,
   
   


mrspeakers said:


> Mad Dog has been an idea for a year *but the spark that really put it in motion was Mad Lust's comments on soundstage.* I do listen to everyone's comments, and felt he had a point. Our research showed the enclosure had to be changed, working with 3d in that process was part of the discovery, as was getting it to truly work. It's very complex to get right.
> 
> I have no idea how many cups, at least a dozen along several design paths. The baffle was tough as well.


   
  MLE...changing the future of headphones one comment at-a-time.


----------



## Change is Good

Dan should give this man a job... lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE will be the Prophet, just living for our safe, secure and rich headphone future. One day there will just be the suit and his soul, no flesh, no bones, no tissue, all memory, experience and foresight. Being an expert in the field of heat dissipation, robustness, soundstage and military grade pinpoint accuracy most headphones will still fail his approval and be crushed instantly in his hands, without a single word.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kamakahah said:


> Hey MLE,




Holy cow, really? Where did he say this?

I have to be careful of my words! :eek:

I should contact Dan to see if he'd send me a loaner of the Alpha Dogs for review.

The only problem is that I no longer have a beastly amp to drive them...


----------



## Eric_C

MLE you should comment that headphones...should be cheaper.


----------



## calpis

I should get in line for them Alphas.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> MLE you should comment that headphones...should be cheaper.




Hahaha. That's funny.

For a guy now making $9/hr and going backwards... I SHOULD...


----------



## autoteleology

-


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE,
   
  what are your known differences between E12 and O2 in pure sound/technicalities, excluding portability? Still deciding on a Mixamp double-amping solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't say, as I haven't heard the O2. I find the E12 to be quite neutral itself, which I know is what the O2 is known for (probably more so than the E12). I don't pick up any extra warmth which is known to be a product of Fiio's house sound. Comparing the E17's amp with the E12's... I can hear some extra warmth off the E17.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Well...AD700*X*/A700*X* w/mic.
> 
> It looks like it will fit similar to the AD700X, which means it won't pivot vertically - same as the AD700.



It does seem that way, but in full context of the post you replied to, I was thinking that if the headband bars were shorter, the earcups would come together in less of a V-shape, and thus be localized to fit those of us with generally narrower heads than their original Japanese target. Of course I agree that simply adding a vertical pivot would also solve the issue. New pads could make a huge difference in sound and comfort, as well.


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't say, as I haven't heard the O2. I find the E12 to be quite neutral itself, which I know is what the O2 is known for (probably more so than the E12). I don't pick up any extra warmth which is known to be a product of Fiio's house sound. Comparing the E17's amp with the E12's... I can hear some extra warmth off the E17.


 
   
   
  interesting
   
  I also have the e12 and e17, I found the e17 as a DAC to be ok, not as good as the audio engine d1, but as an amp I couldn't like it, couldn't get the nice deep, I loved the e12 as an amp though and it gave better bass on my k701's (using d1 as DAC and E12 as amp- expensive solution...), I have to use the bass boost feature though, always
   
  although I love the k701's, for gaming, and musically they're great too, I miss the warmth, and spending £240 on amps to get that warmth maybe isn't the best deal- so I was either going to try tube amps (which also look really neat- was going to break open the bank for woo audio wa7's), or try out the ath m50 for music,
   
  but then thought that the fidellio x1's are probably a love child of the m50's and the k701's, and would be perfect (and they're only £180 at the moment? what do you think
   
  also considering sennheiser 650's and back to considering hd598


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hailin said:


> Damn would have jumped at this if I hadn't jumped at the Sony MDR-MA900 deal.




How much was the MA900?


----------



## Hailin

mad lust envy said:


> How much was the MA900?


http://item.mobileweb.ebay.ca/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=330986774496 144 Canadian so about 138 or so USD. I jumped on it because up here they are about 280+.


----------



## ethan7000

Nice price


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn... that's a hell of a price.


About the Nuforce HP-800:

So after getting the E17, I ran the bass down by 4db (running the E17 with a bypass LOD to the E12 to keep the bass EQ controls for the HP-800). A much more ideal headphone now, and still bassy. The HP-800 is simply too heavy on the bass by default for my taste, and I LIKE my bass on the heavy side. -4db is a good level of bass and brings out the clarity elsewhere.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can't say, as I haven't heard the O2. I find the E12 to be quite neutral itself, which I know is what the O2 is known for (probably more so than the E12). I don't pick up any extra warmth which is known to be a product of Fiio's house sound. Comparing the E17's amp with the E12's... I can hear some extra warmth off the E17.


 
  I own both the E12 and the O2. I made a comparison between the two in the E12 thread; lemme see if I can find it again.
   
  Quote: 





miceblue said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## modulor

For you PC gamers out there, the Humble 'Origin' Bundle was just recently announced - you basically get keys to unlock the included games via Origin. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Pay what you want, and select which charities your proceeds go this round!
   
https://www.humblebundle.com/


----------



## miceblue

^ Nice! I've always wanted to try Mirror's Edge. It looks like a really fun game.


----------



## benbenkr

EA does charity... /mindblown


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> EA does charity... /mindblown


 
  Hah! I know, right?


----------



## Zack117

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> Wait, just the outer casing of your PC and there's already static and distortion?
> 
> Perhaps you've tried this or perhaps not, but is your PC/PS3 properly grounded as well? Because it seems like anything that is electric conductive is causing the noise.


 
  You mean I should try to "ground" it? Excuse the eventually banalaty of this question, but how could I "ground" my PC/PS3? Actually I assume they are grounded properly. I mean my E17/E09k combo works great via USB on the PC. No distortion noise at all with FiiO's products. I'm using lossless/HQ sound sources all the time with it - works perfect. It must be the mixamp.
  Quote: 





burritoboy9984 said:


> I noticed the same exact issue, I started using my phone charger instead of the xbox to power it, and the hum went away. Oddly enough, one charger made the hum present and another one didn't. Guess that one had the same issue as the Xbox.
> 
> -Erik


 
  Cool, but I'm using the mixamp also on PC and PS3, so in my case powering goes hand in hand with data traffic (voice chat). It got to be connected to these components and not a pure power source. Still, thanks for input.
   
  Ok guys, let me get this straight. My conclusion so far is following: this issue with the noise via USB is not conventional. A broken device (partially broken at least) has been sold to me.
   
  Most likely I won't be able to get my money back (ebay private seller -_-). Well, I guess the seller could not be familiar with this issue. I hardly doubt he was double amping his mixamp with the E09k. So do you have any advice for me that could fix this problem?
   
*EDIT4benbenkr: Maybe I described it wrong. I was saying, as soon as the plug touches that silver frame of the actual USB-bus. Not the PC case itself. The same also reserved: USB cable plugged to PC, unplugged to mixamp >> mini usb plug touches the silver frame of the mixamps USB-bus = distortion noise.*


----------



## timnswede

This doesn't beat that group buy deal on the Fidelio x1, but it is still a pretty good deal in case you don't want to wait. Philips Fidelio x1 for $220. http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Philips-Fidelio-Hi-Fi-Stereo-Headphones/7831292/product.html?cid=202290&kid=9553000357392&track=pspla&ef_id=Uc2gXQAAAEPOJV@-:20130814210711:s


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha. That's funny.
> 
> For a guy now making $9/hr and going backwards... I SHOULD...


 
   
  I know that feeling all too well...just consider yourself fortunate that you're not stuck at $7.25 without even the 5-cent automated raises everyone else around you gets.
   
  Yeah, I'm kind of bitter about that, though it still beats zero income.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Came from AVS, I see. Welcome.


----------



## AxelCloris

Just a heads up for any people buying from a certain infamous group buy site. Their time between the end of the sale and delivery will be considerable. I've purchased multiple times from them and each time it has been a wait of at least 2-3 weeks, sometimes even longer. I think my Aune T1 shipped about 4 weeks after purchasing, and I got in early on that buy as well. Not to try and scare people off from a great price, but I want to let you all know what you'll be in for.


----------



## Kamakahah

axelcloris said:


> Just a heads up for any people buying from a certain infamous group buy site. Their time between the end of the sale and delivery will be considerable. I've purchased multiple times from them and each time it has been a wait of at least 2-3 weeks, sometimes even longer. I think my Aune T1 shipped about 4 weeks after purchasing, and I got in early on that buy as well. Not to try and scare people off from a great price, but I want to let you all know what you'll be in for.




Especially those after the first 48 because theywill be acomparing later order from a different supplier. 

It does take a while. Just forget you bought them and be pleasantly surprised when they finally arrive.


----------



## ethan7000

@Vicx - nice goat


----------



## firefly89

Quote: 





vicx said:


> It feels so good I could cry! maybe I will..


 
   
  honestly I cried the first time I listened to my k701's and fiio e12, it was so good
   
   
  and I cried again at the humble bundle, so many games, so little $$$ wow!


----------



## calpis

meh, missed out on the x1 :/


----------



## timnswede

Quote: 





calpis said:


> meh, missed out on the x1 :/


 

 They are $215 on the link I posted earlier, which is still a great deal. I decided to buy them . The link is the overstock one.


----------



## ethan7000

And you'll get them a lot faster


----------



## theiron

Quote: 





timnswede said:


> They are $215 on the link I posted earlier, which is still a great deal. I decided to buy them . The link is the overstock one.


 
   
  Thank you for that. I'm currently rocking the HD598 but after reading a few reviews, the X1's seem like a better set so I ordered them. At $292+ (Amazon) I would probably pass but at $215 I just couldn't. My HD598's cost me more then that and if these are better I'm all for it.


----------



## xero404

I have the chance to buy either a magni or an Asgard2 for the Fidelio X1s. Would the magni suffice since there is no gain switch on the amp or should i just go for the Asgard 2 since it has a switchable gain? My source would be my Titanium HD through the RCA out. Im worried the Asgard might be too overkill on teh X1s since the impedence is so low.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Asgard 2 is probably overkill, though it'd be more future proof. With the Magni, you'll more than likely have to lower the PC master volume a little to give the volume knob some play, due to how sensitive the X1 is.

If it's just for the X1, the Magni will suffice.


----------



## Evshrug

Just got back from playing various gametypes in Halo 4 with the DSS, my tube amp, and the Q701. Makes such a HUGE difference from stereo speakers, I had to switch back to the headphone setup after just one game. The headband bumps aren't bothering me today.

I would consider the X1, but if I'm honest with myself I feel very fulfilled in what I have. I also realize that I'm a big fan of the Q701's mild dampening factor (and the dampening factor of a clean, low output-impedance amp), the hiss is substantially louder straight out of a Turtle Beach DSS to a more "normal" 32 ohm headphone.


----------



## xero404

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Asgard 2 is probably overkill, though it'd be more future proof. With the Magni, you'll more than likely have to lower the PC master volume a little to give the volume knob some play, due to how sensitive the X1 is.
> 
> If it's just for the X1, the Magni will suffice.


 
  Thanks for the advice! I ended up spoiling myself and just sent payment for the asgard2 since i can use my IEMs on em and when i upgrade/purchase to an ortho (mad dogs or he-400) i'll be set.


----------



## Change is Good

MLE, have you read the news about GTA Online? I am amazed at how R* is going to accomplish this on current generation consoles. It really makes me believe they are already remastering it for the nex-gen version... without announcing it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never played through a GTA game in my life. Just never got into them. Saw all my friends playing and it just didn't interest me. I might try V, if only because Sleeping Dogs kind of got me interested I that type of game.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I never played through a GTA game in my life. Just never got into them. Saw all my friends playing and it just didn't interest me. I might try V, if only because Sleeping Dogs kind of got me interested I that type of game.


 
   
  Word? Never a GTA in your life? Blasphemy!!! lol
   
  If Sleeping Dogs got you somewhat into it, you should love the GTAs. The combat, however, is nothing it... really clunky, actually. It's what makes SD so unique, the way they were able to incorporate a batman-like combat system into an open world GTA type of game.


----------



## timnswede

Hey MLE, is there any way to use the Fidelio X1 with an xbox 360 without using a mixamp? I pretty much never play console games, but since GTA V still hasn't been announced for PC, I'll have to pick it up for xbox 360 and I'd really rather not spend ~$100 just for one game. I also really don't want to use my $50 turtle beaches lol.


----------



## Eric_C

Just for solo play? Shouldn't be hard: x1 into TV headphone jack, or 360 audio into an amp.


----------



## timnswede

Quote: 





eric_c said:


> Just for solo play? Shouldn't be hard: x1 into TV headphone jack, or 360 audio into an amp.


 
  Ah, well that's simpler than I thought it would be. Not really sure why I thought that wouldn't work, but thanks.


----------



## ethan7000

Or pick up a used DSS for $20 on eBay


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

timnswede said:


> Hey MLE, is there any way to use the Fidelio X1 with an xbox 360 without using a mixamp? I pretty much never play console games, but since GTA V still hasn't been announced for PC, I'll have to pick it up for xbox 360 and I'd really rather not spend ~$100 just for one game. I also really don't want to use my $50 turtle beaches lol.




Find a used Turtle Beach DSS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-EarForce-DSS-7-1-Surround-Sound-Processor-for-Stereo-Headset-used-/330958996870?pt=US_Video_Game_Headsets&hash=item4d0eb18586

Buy an optical cable to make sure.

There you go.


----------



## Eric_C

I'd sell you my mixamp, but I suspect it's not working properly anymore.

In other news:
just got my Plyr 1.


----------



## Kamakahah

I'm curious or just want new toy, but what would be a decent option for a surround unit for the PC? Just one of those used DSS or pick up a U3?

Not looking for the cream of the crop, just the best value to see if it even matters to me.


----------



## theiron

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Find a used Turtle Beach DSS
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-EarForce-DSS-7-1-Surround-Sound-Processor-for-Stereo-Headset-used-/330958996870?pt=US_Video_Game_Headsets&hash=item4d0eb18586
> 
> ...


 

 You guys running cables from your xbox by the TV to the couch or am I missing something here? That cable run for me is like 15 to 20 feet...


----------



## ethan7000

kamakahah said:


> I'm curious or just want new toy, but what would be a decent option for a surround unit for the PC? Just one of those used DSS or pick up a U3?
> 
> Not looking for the cream of the crop, just the best value to see if it even matters to me.


 Used DSS into an amp would be good


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

U3 into an spdif dac and then an amp would be even better. 

Of course, the used DSS will be a LOT cheaper once it's all said and done, unless you already have an spdif dac.

As fo the DSS, this is assuming your PC has an optical out that supports Dolby Digital. My gaming laptop's spdif out only does 2 channels, so the DSS alone wouldnb't work properly.

You can get the U3 for around $30 (after $10 rebate), and a Fiio D03k (spdif dac) for $30 as well. I assume you already have an amp.


----------



## ethan7000

Guys I bought the humble bundle and I'm not going to use these keys, so if you want the game, go ahead and redeem the key - it's free to you.  They only work once, so first to redeem gets it - if you use one, might want to post so others know.  Have fun 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Dead Space: Origin
  6WUL-3PQL-CKGG-E9BJ-79XD
   
  Burnout Paradise: Origin
  5PKK-D9SY-J3G9-NH88-QH8L
   
  Crysis 2: Origin
  GAXX-GXRF-HQLT-4A25-B7GD
   
  Mirror's Edge: Origin
  CWEE-Z7NW-RRZ3-JCRF-ZA28
   
  Dead Space: Steam
N2GEQ-8XRER-ZAJR8
   
  Crysis 2: Steam
  J34FW-83ZLG-X5LL5
   
  Mirror's Edge: Steam
GCK3W-4L4XC-IP4TY
   
  Medal of Honor: Steam
  M4TJC-NTQ5T-0NEGN


----------



## Kamakahah

Thanks. I wanted to try mirrors edge. I picked up the steam copy you posted.


----------



## Kamakahah

mad lust envy said:


> U3 into an spdif dac and then an amp would be even better.
> 
> Of course, the used DSS will be a LOT cheaper once it's all said and done, unless you already have an spdif dac.
> 
> ...




Where is the U3 with the rebate from? 
I'll probably give that a try. 

Though I try to avoid additional USB anything because possible DPC latency.


----------



## Eric_C

Kamakahah: what about a new sound card? Most of the Asus Xonars can do virtual surround--check Nameless's thread.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I would consider the X1, but if I'm honest with myself I feel very fulfilled in what I have.


 
   
  This is the main reason why I haven't bought it again since I went back to the AEs. It would be nice to have both but I am happy with what I have when including the Mad Dogs.
   
  Speaking of closed headphones... how's the M100 been working out for ya?


----------



## pietcux

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Guys I bought the humble bundle and I'm not going to use these keys, so if you want the game, go ahead and redeem the key - it's free to you.  They only work once, so first to redeem gets it - if you use one, might want to post so others know.  Have fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, I took Dead Space from Steam. Wanted to try it since long.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> Thanks, I took Dead Space from Steam. Wanted to try it since long.


 
   
  The first Dead Space almost made me sh* my pants the first time I played. It was the first time I sensed fear in a video game in a looong time...
   
  Actually, it hasn't happened since...


----------



## davidsh

DSS vs DSS2?


----------



## Naingolann

DDS v1, for sure. Although some don't mind the 2° version.


----------



## modulor

Quote: 





change is good said:


> The first Dead Space almost made me sh* my pants the first time I played. It was the first time I sensed fear in a video game in a looong time...
> 
> Actually, it hasn't happened since...


 
  I agree, the original is one of the best survival/horror (and best overall) games around.  I have to say though, since then the only other game I've played that was truly terrifying was Amnesia: The Dark Descent...alone, in the dark, with headphones...probably the most anxiety inducing thing ever, literally pure abject fear.  It's on a whole other level IMO.  From a few short synopses:
   
_"As the title suggested, the player's character Daniel had lost his memory and it was up to you to explore the dark castle setting and work out why you were there. It soon transpired that the citadel was full of roaming monsters who would give chase and attack if you were spotted, forcing you to run off and find a hiding place until they lost interest. Staying in shadows was the key... except being in the darkness too long also reduced Daniel's sanity, causing hallucinations that caught the monster's attention. Lighting candles helped restore sanity but this too attracted monsters, meaning nowhere was truly safe."_
   
_"But in Amnesia you’re not a typical game hero: when bad things happen, you don’t have the power to confront it, you don’t have a buff bar full of counters, and you don’t have a gun in your hand. You have a lamp. You have to run and hide and hope whatever it is goes away. Your character’s fear is palpable: the screen shakes and warps as the terror builds, and the monsters seem to wait for the perfect moment to strike at you, delivering the sort of scare that has you hyperventilating along with your character. Just keep telling yourself that it isn’t real."_
   
  The story is campy and meh at times, but when you're playing that is the last thing on your mind.  Ok, I won't spoil/hype it any more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 it's only available for PC/Mac/Linux, but it's worth your time if you enjoy the survival/horror genre.  There is a new game coming out next month called Outlast, which is apparently inspired by Amnesia, so keep an eye out for that.  It's supposed to be a console/PC release, coming to Steam next month and PS4 in early 2014...so that'll be my next challenge!


----------



## theOmni

I recently came across a deal for some Ultrasone Pro 750's for $110. I quickly jumped on it after seeing the reviews on and seeing that originally it sells for ~$250. My question is, how are these headphones for gaming? What would the Fun and Competitive ratings be?


----------



## dakanao

What does body and weight to the midrange actually mean?


----------



## Evshrug

ethan7000 said:


> Or pick up a used DSS for $20 on eBay



More typically though $25-$30. Might as well figure in the cost of an optical cable... I bought a $29 ($30) one in new condition with the optical cable, everything arrived at once with free shipping I think.



change is good said:


> This is the main reason why I haven't bought it again since I went back to the AEs. It would be nice to have both but I am happy with what I have when including the Mad Dogs.
> 
> Speaking of closed headphones... how's the M100 been working out for ya?



I use the V-MODA M-100 almost every day during lunch break at work, and I have used them a handful of times for gaming. I used them exclusively for like the first two or three weeks, and I was actually doing pretty well in CoD4 and Halo Reach with them. Surround works better for awareness through them than through my stereo desktop speakers, you might say "Well, DUH Everett," but I am able to locate people and action better with these than checking the radar in the corner of Halo and CoD UAV. Detail retrieval is surprisingly good, it's all there in comparison to the Q701... But in here also is where the Q701 is better. It is easier to pick out things with the Q701, and there is better sense of "air" between notes and instruments. The M-100 is a high-quality headphone, and obviously warmer and forward from the Q701, but the Q701 gives a better ability to listen to several things at once, if that makes sense. For example, in Halo4 last night, there's the bullets panning between two people fighting at 10 and 11 O'clock, and another three fighting at my back-right quarter, I can hear that in the M-100, but in the Q701 the fights seem to be happening in a room and for all the detail they seem less busy.

The M-100 gets a bit hot and uncomfortable after an hour. For all their padding, the headband still makes your head ache after a while, actually more than the bumps on my Q701's do now a days.


----------



## timnswede

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Find a used Turtle Beach DSS
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-EarForce-DSS-7-1-Surround-Sound-Processor-for-Stereo-Headset-used-/330958996870?pt=US_Video_Game_Headsets&hash=item4d0eb18586
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks, that's a good price. I'll make sure to get one before GTA V comes out.


----------



## davidsh

Us poor Europeans need to pay thrice the price for such a device..


----------



## Mackem

Is there any headphones that have the same sound qualities as the X1s but closed?


----------



## Evshrug

mackem said:


> Is there any headphones that have the same sound qualities as the X1s but closed?



FWIR the Mad Dogs by Mr Speakers come close, but just going from an open to closed headphone changes the presentation of sound. I haven't heard the MD's, but I'm pretty happy with my V-MODA M-100 for when I need a closed, portable headphone or I don't want to use extra amplification.


----------



## Evshrug

davidsh said:


> Us poor Europeans need to pay thrice the price for such a device..



Still, it's the cheapest device which we think would suffice, though I understand a cheaper device would be nice.

If it helps any, buying the DSS cost as much as the DSS2 costs now in stores, about $70 alone. I bought my Recon3D USB for $70 new, but that was on sale and I think now it costs almost as much as a Mixamp, $120-$130. Dig around your used markets, but it's entirely possible there isn't as much of the used/pawning culture in Europe for electronics as here in the USA.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm in love.



Comfort is a *PERFECT 10.* No lie. These are the most comfortable full sized headphone I have ever worn. They are also the most open in both sound and design. They are also the LIGHTEST full sized headphone I've worn in awhile. (195g)

Bought them for $178.

First impressions: Think middleground between Q701 and K702 Annie. Not as refined as either, but less fatiguing than the Q701 (no upper mid glare) with more bass, and not as full/warm as the Annie.

The bass is definitely not as rich as the X1's, but the mids are better. The MA900 is definitely more linear sounding than the X1. The X1 is more lively and energetic, as well as more refined.

The MA900 is a really well balanced, very open/spacious, and ultimate in comfort headphone.

I'm particularly surprised by how good the bass is despite having absolutely no seal whatsoever.

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/07/sony-mdr-ma900-in-depth-analysis.html

Apparently the MA900 and F1 both have impedance compensators:



> The MDR-F1 does not need special connections because they have impedance compensator which eliminate the variation of sound quality created by amplifier output impedance




So this is good news for those with higher output impedance amps like the E9.

Nowhere near the best at any one thing compared to all I have heard, but for the price, these are just no brainer, solid all-rounders. Comfort king, easy to drive, well balanced, and very spacious.


----------



## ethan7000

Nice. Probably a good soundstage too huh


----------



## Change is Good

I am drooling at the size of those cups! So is this your neutral balanced can you were searching for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest with you, they really sound like something Sennheiser would put out, not Sony. I'd say they're on par with say, the HD558/598, but even more open. They're just good headphones for the money. What sets them apart is that ridiculous comfort level, openness, and weight. I'm inclined to say these will be my pair when the X1 bass fatigue starts kicking in.

I've also been finding the X1 clamping a little bit. It's either that, or the fact that I'm sick and just a little clamp is bothering me.

These wouldn't replace the Annies for me (if I still owned them), but I do prefer them over everything else for comfort. There is literally zero issues with comfort. Absolutely no heat build up, no neck problems, nothing. Well, if there is ONE thing, the cloth pads may get itchy for some. Hasn't on me, but I did hear about it.

Due to this comfort, this makes a better alternative for the X1 than anything else.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'm in love.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Damn. DAMN. MAD!
Npoooooooooo 

XD
The appeal from your description is amazing. *Edit:* It seems like you like every "next" headphone better than the last one. Yeah, after kinda missing the lightweight of my AD700's, and after experiencing the rare bit of glare on the Q801 if not amped with my tube amp... Definitely elaborate on soundstage, please?


...
They aren't exactly _gorgeous_ to look at though, are they? Somewhere between plain, and exaggerated oversized (where the q701 look big but at least balanced aesthetically, these Sony's look downright dork, and not in a "proud of it" purple like another headphone I could mention.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I wouldn't say they're better than anything I've recently reviewed. But they're really solid all rounders for the price, and the comfort kills all else.

I'm still not comfortable explaining stereo soundstage. All I know is that it's incredibly open/spacious. I wonder how it will sound with virtual surround.

Yes, they're pretty plain and basic looking. But they're not gaudy or anything. I guess the plastic keeps the weight down...


----------



## kman1211

Ah so you got them, such great all-rounders. To me they sound like a mixture of the HD 600 and Q701, just a little less refined, a bit of a hybrid sound of AKG and Senn to me. They are built of plastic and metal, the arms, yokes, and grills are a magnesium alloy. They are great with virtual surround.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm in love.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  Sweet!  I had a feeling you had gotten a pair of these and were waiting for them to come in.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  While I think I have a pretty good idea of the signature, anything you can detail about the soundstage would be great.  I keep seeing mixed opinions on it, especially regarding the imaging.  Some people say it's too spread out and foggy, while others say it's sharp.  Also, how deep are the earcups on them, and how much do the pads compress? It's kind of hard to tell from pictures.
   
   
  By complete coincidence I just snagged a pair of them myself today from that cheap ebay listing that's up.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I've been curious about them for a long time about them, and that price was enough to finally convince me to bite on them.  I'll say up front that I'm pretty much getting them solely to audition the soundstage on them.  Since I'm such a soundstage whore, if it turns out to be _great _in that area, I may keep them.  If not though, I can't really see myself keeping them since I don't expect them to be able to compete with the Anniversaries or X1s.  I'll have to see if the sig is nice, of course.  Also, I have a feeling the comfort will not be a 10 for me because my ears will probably touch the drivers, and it might even turn out to be a deal breaker.  Anyways, they won't be hear until sometime next week though, so I won't steal any of your thunder.  Please proceed...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The pads are quite thin but soft and not problematic at all. My ears just BARELY touch the driver padding, and I don't see it ever being a problem. It's too soft, too light to be anything less than extremely comfy. Definitely no ear crushing here. the pads compress easily if you force them to, but the headphones have very little clamping force and are so light, so they won' truly compress all the way. The cups aren't deep at all in the front, but the back is QUITE deep, with the space left where the opening is as well. There is a space in there where you may be able to add cotton to the underside and raise the pads if you want. 

I've never been one to truly gauge soundstage off a stereo signal. I can only really comment on soundstage once I get to gaming. Like I said, based off what I've heard so far (not much), it is very spacious and open, so I'm sure you'll love the soundstage. Time will tell if it's positional cues are diffused sounding or focused... treble isn't exactly sharp so I'm leaning on probably just a hint diffused.

They don't compare to the Annies or X1, but as a super comfy alternative, with a non fatiguing signature, and super open sound, I think they're great. For you though, I don't see how they can fit with what you already own. You're pretty set with those two, IMHO. These would be very situational for you, I'd say.

As a fan of the Q701, I think the tonal balance will feel close to home here, with less upper mids, and smoother sound. Can't say if it's fuller sounding overall though. The bass is pretty well presented here.

OH YEAH, despite what pictures may say, the cups are actually NOT that big. The AKGs AND the X1 cups are both considerably bigger. Crazy, 70mm drivers with standard sized cups. It just looks huge because the headband and arms are so thin.


----------



## chicolom

It's pretty amazing that the MA900 and F1 manage the bass they do, considering they literally don't seal at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not a bassy headphone by any means. It does bass like the Q701. It rolls off early, truth be told, but it's well balanced and definitely present.

Good thing I have the E12. That bass boost really brings these to life.

Depending on how good they are for gaming, these will probably be my TV show/anime watching headphones due to their comfort and more upfront mids than the X1. Other than that, X1 will take priority for most things.

Anyone with Q701/Annies don't really need to test these out, I'd say. It's definitely not on the same level. Get it if you want something super light and comfy, easy to drive, open, and non-fatiguing.


----------



## nopeavi

I've been interested in purchasing Sennheiser PC 360's, from what I've searched has been getting consistent love (albeit heavily weighted by price) but it seems to fit my bill of having a great FPS soundstage, while maintaining build quality and pretty decent mic quality. Would I need an amp or something to drive this headset? I have a Astro Mixamp and don't know if that would be sufficient, or if I'm even better off doing on-board audio.
   
  Also, any feedback on the Sennheiser PC 350 SEs and PC 363D, I've heard they improved on the bass on atleast the 350SEs but don't know how reliable feedback has been on either of these doofy USB soundcard gimmicks aside.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 runs fine off the Mixamp alone.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> OH YEAH, despite what pictures may say, the cups are actually NOT that big. The AKGs AND the X1 cups are both considerably bigger. Crazy, 70mm drivers with standard sized cups. It just looks huge because the headband and arms are so thin.


 Are they big enough to be circumaural for you?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, width and height of the pad openings are huge. The pads are really thin. Like really.


----------



## Change is Good

How's the sound leakage compared to other open cans? Seeing how small it is I can see this being somewhat portable for you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I took it to work.

It has a LOT of sound leakage. Probably the most I've heard. Its open in every way.


----------



## Hailin

I am sitting waiting for my 900s to appear. Hearing they have a smaller pad size then the Akgs k7xx makes me the happy. If they are closer to a Beyer size that would be perfect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The pads thickness is... actually pretty pathetic. Its like not even half the X1's thickness. And it does compress easily. But man, is it wide wide as hell. No way these would be on ear for anyone that isn't and elf.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The latest update is up!

----------
----------





*Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")*



Sells for $100 (or less). 



Spoiler: Review



Creative and Fostex partnered up to give us the relatively inexpensive Creative Aurvana Live. It shares most of it's design with the discontinued Denon D1001, with the same bio cellulose drivers, and very few, superficial differences. From what I have personally read, the Creative Aurvana Live has been known to be the slightly superior of the two sonically, made even better at the fact that the CAL was the less expensive of the two, and is still sold today. The CAL can be considered as the baby sibling of the incredibly popular and discontinued Denon D2000, D5000, D7000 headphones, all which came with bio-cellulose Fostex drivers.

*Build Quality*: The CAL is known as a small circumaural. Not as small as typical on ear headphones, but not as large as most full sized headphones. The CAL is incredibly lightweight. It has a classy piano black, glossy finish on the plastic cups with chrome accents, the only thing on the cups being Creative branding. The headband has both metal and plastic pieces, relatively thin as well. The headband padding is covered in some smooth but quality, synthetic pleather.

The pads are also made up of synthetic leather/pleather, and are quite soft. The pads are on the small side for a circumaural headphone, with a lack of width and depth for bigger ears.

The CAL's cable is personally what I find to be it's worst aspect in terms of build quality. Each cup houses a thin, somewhat flimsy cable which meet just over a foot down the cable's length. The cable is quite short, terminating into a small 3.5mm plug. Good thing the CAL comes with an extension cable. The cables are rubbery and will 'grip' onto everything, which I personally find quite annoying.



*Comfort*:

The Creative Aurvana Live! is a rarity for me in terms of comfort. I tend to hate headphones with pleather pads, especially closed headphones. I personally find the CAL to be quite comfortable. It is odd, as not only is it pleather padded (very soft pads), but the pads aren't wide or deep, so my ears press up against the drivers and the inner walls of the pads. This is usually disastrous for a headphone's long-term wearing comfort, yet, I don't find the CAL to be problematic. Perhaps it's due to how light the CAL is, and how the CAL doesn't exactly exert a lot of clamping pressure. That being said, I do know that a lot of people have issues with these very things, so keep that in mind.


*Design Issues*:

As stated earlier, the pads are neither deep nor wide, so larger ears may find their ears pressing against the drivers. 



*Accessories*:

The CAL comes with a small, cloth carrying pouch, an extension cable, and a gold-plated 6.3mm adapter. The carrying pouch won't offer any real protection from anything other than scratches/scuffs.



*Isolation/Leakage*:

The CAL is exactly like the other Fostex/Denon 'marriage' headphones. They do not isolate that well for a closed headphone. They DO keep from leaking internal noise out to the world quite well, but aren't the best at keeping external noise from leaking in. Better than an open headphone, but far from the best at external noise control. Long story short, if you want a headphone that keeps noise OUT, the CAL is not it. However, if you want a late night headphone that won't bother other people around you (i.e. the sleeping girlfriend), the CAL is quite proficient in noise leak. 



*Sound*:

The Creative Aurvana Live is a wonderful sounding headphone. It's relatively warm, spacious, and detailed. It has a fantastic balance of bass, mids, and treble, not usually found in their price range. It's not a neutral headphone, but for a sub-$100 headphone, it's clearly one of the best headphones I've ever heard, if not THE best. Fostex knows their headphones. The CAL is warm, bassy (bot not overly so), with smooth mids, and detailed treble, without being overbearing. Mostly organic, and natural sounding, with few caveats.



*Bass*:

The CAL's bass is warm, full, rich, organic, and soft hitting. Not particularly quick, but well integrated with the mids, giving the CAL it's deliciously warm tonality. It's emphasized, but never truly overbearing. One of the best I've heard in terms of ambience, emphasis, and integration.



*Mids*: 

The CAL has organic, fluid mids. Not incredibly rich or forward, but very well behaved, balanced, and again, expertly integrated. It in all honesty, the CAL puts some of the more expensive headphones to shame. Bassy headphones tend to ruin mids in some form or another. Not so with the CAL. If you like a good amount of bass, and don't want to sacrifice vocals, the CAL makes a WONDERFUL headphone for those purposes. The only real negative aspect to the mids is that the upper mids/lower treble may at times come off just a little thin. Not recessed or lacking, but not as organic and natural.



*Treble*: 

The treble is probably the weakest aspect of the CAL's sound. Note: I said WEAKEST. Not that it was bad in general. The treble has nice amount of presence and energy. Not particularly aggressive or sharp. It has a good mix of smoothness and sparkle. The lower treble may have just a hint of glare, but it's rarely ever problematic. 



*Soundstage*:

In true Fostex fashion, the CAL has a truly impressive soundstage. It is a closed headphone, yet instrument separation and a virtual sense of space this big is just unheard of in most closed headphones, regardless of price range. Sure, it's not going to trump the well known open soundstages of headphones like the DT990, K70x, and X1, but even next to those, the CAL's soundstage will still impress. Not the deepest, or widest, but very good all around.



*Positioning*:

The CAL has very good positional cues. Positional cues are very well defined, with plenty of virtual space to maneuver. Among the best closed headphones in this regard.



*Clarity*:

The CAL's clarity if quite impressive, especially considering the price. Despite the CAL leaning on musicality and not neutrality, the warm, bassy nature of the CAL does not detract from it's well presented mids and good treble range. Nothing is ever truly lost, making the CAL a solid gaming headphone if you want clarity without sacrificing musicality and overall enjoyment for the sake of sound-whoring.



*Amping*:

The Creative Aurvana Live! is an efficient headphone, demanding minimal amping. It benefits more from a clean source, and not so much power. Mixamp owners will have no problem using the Mixamp alone to power the CAL.



*Value*: 

At under $100, the Creative Aurvana Live is what I consider to be the epitome of bang for buck headphones. I have compared it directly to other, considerably more expensive headphones, and personally found the CAL to either meet or exceed their performance. If you want an inexpensive, efficient, and fantastic sounding headphone, the CAL is practically begging for your money.



*Comparisons*: 

Audio Technica ATH-M50: The CAL/Denon D1001 were always stacked up and compared to the M50 due to a somewhat similar price range and similar strengths/weaknesses. I personally find the CAL and M50 to be on a very comparable performance/technical level, though they aren't exactly similar.

The M50s are more aggressive, while the CAL is more laidback with a better sense of depth and width. The M50 has a sharper, faster attack in the bass and more bite in the treble, making it a bit more dynamic than the CAL, and better suited for faster genres like metal. However, the M50 has a smaller, more congested soundstage, which pales in comparison to the excellent soundstage on the CAL.

Ultimately, this means the CAL is a softer, more relaxed (but never boring), more polite, less fatiguing alternative to the M50. It is also clearly superior to the M50 for gaming due to a bigger soundstage and better positional cues.

The M50 has a much more rugged, durable, build quality, and can stand a bit more abuse than the CAL.



*Final Impressions:*

The Creative Aurvana Live! is a not so hidden gem in the headphone community. The secret came out years ago, and with good reason. Fantastic warm tonality, good bass presence, fluid mids, with a truly spacious soundstage, all for an incredibly affordable price. Then one true drawback on the CAL may be that it's comfort level may be good for some, not for others. I believe it's truly worth checking out.



Final Scores...



Fun: 8/10 (Great. Full, warm, immersive, and entertaining)

Competitive: 7.25/10 (Good. Even for a warm and slightly reserved sound signature, the soundstage and positional cues are good for competitive play).

Comfort: 8 (Great. Even for a small circumaural, I find them to be very comfortable, with the only negatives being that the pads are shallow and small and may crush other's ears. I didn't have issues with it though.)





----------
----------





*Nuforce HP-800
Nuforce Website*



Sells for $129



Spoiler: Review



I'd like to thank Wolfgang, NuForce's social marketing specialist for contacting me, and giving me the opportunity to test and review the Nuforce HP-800. Very much appreciated.

Okay, so the Nuforce HP-800. Prior to Nuforce contacting me, I must admit, I knew absolutely nothing about the HP-800. All I have known about Nuforce has been what I've read about the quite popular UDAC, UDAC2, Icon, and HDP dac/amps. I certainly had no idea that Nuforce had jumped into the headphone game. The HP-800 is Nuforce's first entry into full-sized headphones.

So the question is: How was Nuforce's first foray into full-sized headphones?



*Build Quality*:

Before I get into the aspects of it's design, I'd like to address one thing: I believe the HP-800 may have been designed with portable use in mind, yet the HP-800 is not portable by any conventional means. It's large, and doesn't fold up in any shape or form. This betrays it's incredibly minimal power requirements. The design will easily place the HP-800 as a home or studio headphone, not a portable one. Quite some large head bling here. The HP-800 does fit well as a transportable headphone, like office or library use with a laptop.

The HP-800 is a fully closed-back headphone which is made up almost entirely of very sturdy and solid feeling plastic in a full black matte finish. That means fingerprint resistant, which is always a good thing. I grow tired of high gloss plastic that looks good as long as you have psychic powers and never physically touch the headphones. The design of the HP-800 is quite minimalistic, which would feel at home next to typical studio headphones you can purchase from the musical instrument section of any major electronics stores like Best Buy. It is almost entirely black, with the only contrasts being the driver covers being red/orange, and a golden metallic 'NU' logo on the center of each outer ear cup.

The headband is of the auto-adjusting, tension/suspension type, similar to the popular AKG K70x line, as well as the recent Philips Fidelio X1. The headband portion that rests on your head is made up of a very rubbery material that has quite a grip. This is the first time I have seen such a material being used, and I'm not sure it was the best choice. I find that this rubbery material is prone to picking up dust and dirt from the air, and is not exactly easy to wipe off.

The top portion that holds the wires that sends audio to the right driver is all plastic, and as such, I wouldn't recommend bending it if you feel like the HP-800 doesn't have enough extension, in fear of possibly snapping the plastic. This makes the HP-800 a possible problem for bigger heads, as you can't really bend the HP-800 in any way, unlike the Fidelio X1 which has a metal band that is easily bent for more extension.

The pads are synthetic leather/pleather. They're quite large, and very soft. Personally (as you may all know by now), I have a strong aversion for pleather pads, so I'm not exactly thrilled by the abundance of it on the HP-800. The pads, while big, don't have the largest openings, and they compress quite easily, so those with larger ears may find their ears pressing up against the driver covers, and inner walls of the pads.

The HP-800's left ear cup comes with a standard 3.5mm input, no locking mechanism, so cable replacement is a breeze. Speaking of the cables, the HP-800 comes with two cables: A cloth-covered long cable that terminates into a 3.5mm plug, with an attached 6.3mm adapter which screws on/off. One of the better stock cables I've ever come across. The shorter, thinner cable doesn't inspire much confidence in it's build quality, and unlike the lengthier cable, lacks proper strain reliefs. I'd stick with the longer cable, or buy a more durable short cable for portable use. 



*Comfort*: 

The comfort will be a hit or miss. The HP-800 may be problematic for larger heads, in that there may not be enough clearance, due to the lack of extension. My head fits, but the strong tension causes the cups to want to ride up my ears ever so slightly. This could've been mitigated with a longer extension.

The headband portion that rests on the top of the head is covered in very rubbery material which can and will grip onto your scalp or hair, so any small adjustments will yank a bit. This is only an issue if you're constantly shifting and readjusting.

The pads are quite soft and plentiful. Being synthetic leather (which I'm not a fan of on ANY headphone), they will heat up and get a little sticky. As mentioned before, the openings aren't the largest, so larger ears may have to struggle between pressing up to the driver covers and pinching up against the inner pad walls.

The HP-800 is quite lightweight, so they shouldn't pose much of an issue for those with neck problems. All in all, the HP-800 will cater to smaller heads and ears. Everyone else should try and demo these first.

The HP-800 doesn't exude much clamping force, and the little it does have will keep the HP-800 from sliding off the head. Needless to say, the HP-800 has an ideal amount of clamp to my ears without being too loose, or too clampy.

Overall, the HP-800 is among the better pleather-padded headphones I have reviewed on this guide, in terms of comfort. That means, that if you don't have a particular distaste for pleather, you may find the HP-800 to be relatively comfortable overall. Personally, I find them okay in comfort, and mostly inoffensive, my main issue being the pads. 



*Design Issues*:

- Not particularly suited for portable use due to a very large frame, despite it's minimal amping requirements.

- Rubbery headband padding may grip onto the scalp/hair, potentially causing discomfort with every minor adjustment. Also picks up dirt/dust easily (the top side of the rubbery headband).

- Pleather pads, while soft, build up heat in a hurry, and will stick to the skin. They also do not have the biggest openings, so those with large ears, take note.

- Lack of extension for larger heads will cause the cups to pull and rise up towards the headband.



*Accessories*:

The HP-800 comes with:

- One long, durable, cloth-braided cable w/3.5mm plug with an attached screwed on 6.3mm adapter.

- One short, thin cable w/3.5mm plug

- Carrying pouch



*Isolation/Leakage*:

The HP-800 as a fully closed-back headphone does incredibly well at keeping it's sound from escaping out into the world. This means that you can blast the HP-800 loudly, and very little will actually leak out, making it an ideal headphone for late night use when you're trying to keep your significant other in the same room from waking up. It's been quite some time since I've heard a headphone control noise leak as well as the HP-800, the last one being the Mad Dogs.

The HP-800 however isn't exactly great at keep external noise from leaking in, so it's not the best at passive noise-cancelling. It's not bad, but not the best.



*Sound*:

The HP-800 is unlike anything I've ever heard upon first listen. It's quite warm/dark most of the time, yet spacious, which I usually find to be quite a contradiction. Very much so. Coming off more neutral and brighter offerings, the HP-800 will sound stuffy and muted (it even makes the well known Creative Aurvana Live! sound bright in comparison). In fact, prior to hearing the Sennheiser HD650, my perception of it's sound just based on impressions I've read online (which didn't turn out to be true), I would've thought it'd sound something like how the HP-800 actually sounds like. Dark, creamy, and smooth, if a bit veiled. The only difference being that the HD650 is known for it's stellar and intimate mids, which the HP-800 just does not have.

Quite bassy, with fairly distant sounding mids, and mellow treble that sounds pretty up to par with the mids. For a closed, dark, mellow sounding headphone, I feel the soundstage to be quite spacious, more than likely due to how distant the mids sound. To be quite honest, I was thrown off by it's sound signature. However, given some time, I adapted to it's tonal characteristics, and found it to have a charm I'd say is all it's own.

It isn't the most detailed headphone by a stretch, but it is relatively enjoyable, pleasant, and fatigue free. I feel it's best suited for hip hop, and general club music with most importance in the pulse of the rhythm. For this reason, I find the HP-800 to be very genre specific.

All of that being said, the HP-800 is almost a completely different beast for virtual surround gaming use. Even though the headphone is dark and mellow, the linearity between the mids and treble makes it easy to maintain a good mix for gaming purposes. Because bass is situational in gaming and not overly dominant, you can raise volume levels to put the mids and treble into better focus (not overly so), making the HP-800 a competent, fun oriented, gaming headphone.



*Bass*:

Big, impressive, and dominating bass. It will be the first thing you immediately notice when listening to the HP-800. However, what sets itself apart, is that the bass is fairly linear (though quite emphasized from the mids and treble ranges). The sub bass is actually quite decent, and the mid bass is proficient in fullness, presence, and control. The bass is on the slower side, but doesn't creep into the mids. I expected this soft, yet full bass to swallow the mids, but the HP-800's control is pretty apparent. 



*Mids*:

The mids are a paradox on it's own. The HP-800's bass doesn't swallow up the mids, and the treble isn't by any means bright or emphasized over the mids, yet the mids are a bit recessed to my ears. Almost undoubtedly so. The mids are warm and full-bodied, yet...distant. I'm at odds with the HP-800 because of this. It takes time to get used to. 

I'm not entirely against recessed mids on a headphone (I do generally like a mild v-shaped sound signature), yet when a headphone is clearly NOT v-shaped, you'd expect mids to be either in tune with the rest of the sound, or up front and center. The HP-800's mids are a little off putting at first. Not a gaping void, but noticeably pushed back.


*Treble*:

The treble range is more or less in line with the mids in emphasis, meaning that they aren't in the spotlight, and are just a tad laid back, but not more so than the mids. They are in the comfortable range of being smooth, and sibilance free. Treble in instruments isn't exactly the sharpest, nor the clearest, ultimately making the HP-800 lack just a bit detail. 

A bit glossed over, but completely inoffensive to the ears. I find the treble to be a strength when you play the HP-800 at a moderately loud volume, as it never gets harsh. Comparing the treble to the Creative Aurvana Live, I found the HP-800 to sound less detailed, but smoother, and less fatiguing.



*Soundstage*:

The soundstage is a surprisingly good thing in the HP-800. It's wide for a closed headphone, and thought not excelling in depth, there is decent amount of virtual space. I'll touch more on this in the next section.



*Positioning*:

Positional cues are good. Not great but good. The HP-800 has a pretty good soundstage in width, but not necessarily the best in depth. Also, positional cues in certain angles sound a bit diffused. The HP-800's positional cues take up a bit more virtual space, and aren't as precise. In the end, the HP-800 gets the job done, but there are better, and cheaper in this regard.



*Clarity*:

Clarity isn't exactly a super strong suit in the HP-800. I do find it to be objectively clearer for gaming purposes in virtual surround gaming than it is for stereo/music use (or any non-virtual surround uses for that matter). Due to the fact that the HP-800 is pretty closely even in mids and treble, nothing is lost in between, so within a certain amount of volume, the HP-800 makes a pretty decent gaming headphone, and mitigates the overall darkness somewhat. 

You do have to somewhat tune out the abundant amount of bass that leads the mix, though because the bass doesn't smother other details, it isn't that arduous a task. All in all, not the clearest headphone, but relatively stable in the clarity it does have after the bass.



*Amping*:

While the HP-800 isn't the most sensitive full-sized headphone I've tested, it truly demands very little amping with a maximum input power of only 30MW. This means that practically any device you hook up the HP-800 up to will drive them loudly, and authoratively. As always, clean power is the best power, so while the effect may be subtle, a decent portable amp will benefit the HP-800 especially in controlling it's dominant, and somewhat slow bass. For gaming use, I found the Mixamp alone to be just fine for the HP-800. The HP-800 is already full bodied as is, even unamped.



*Value*: 

The MSRP of the HP-800 is $129. In it's price range, it fills it's own niche, and for that reason competes well with others in it's price range, if you're looking into a somewhat unique sound signature, even amongst other dark/warm headphones. Bassheads in particular should take note.



*Final Impressions:*

I feel the HP-800 is a solid (though polarizing) headphone for those who'd like a closed back, pleasant, fatigue-free, warm headphone, with big bass, and solid noise leak control. I feel the HP-800 is a fairly competent closed headphone for virtual surround gaming, fun-oriented gaming in particular. Just remember, the HP-800 is bass first, everything else second. So unless you value a substantial amount of bass presence above everything else in a headphone's sound, you may want to do your homework. 

Final Scores...



Fun: 7.5 (Very Good)

Competitive: 7 (Good)

Comfort: 6.75/10 (Quite decent)





----------
----------






*Fiio E12 'Mont Blanc'*



Sells for $130




Spoiler: Review



*Pros:*

+ Fully portable w/rechargeable battery (via micro usb port), sleek design, volume knob instead of digital button for volume control

+ Very clean, neutral sound, with optional bass boost (50hz range), and optional crossfeed (unheard of in the price range). Gain switch from 0-16db, capable of outputting illogically loud volume levels to practically every headphone short of electrostatics and harder to drive planar magnetics.

+ Very, very powerful portable amp, rivaling desktop amps like the Fiio E9K in power

+ Incredibly low output impedance for near universal compatibility with low/high impedance headphones

+ No need to hook up to a power outlet when using it to aid the Mixamp/other DH devices, meaning less clutter


*Cons:*

- Lack of versatility (one 3.5mm input, no outputs)

- Inputs/usb ports placed in illogical positions (headphone jack in the center, not to the side of the front plate, next to analog input, making it difficult to adjust the volume knob, with an awkward side usb port)
. 
- Difficult to stack with Fiio's own E07k and E17 dac/amps due to mismatched inputs (for non-gaming use)

- Slight noise/interference in the signal if used while charging (if problematic, unplug the E12 while in use, and charge when not in use)



*Personal notes:*

The Fiio E12 is more or less ideal as the perfect amp to pair with the Mixamp/other DH devices when you need extra power. It's small, sleek, portable, and rechargeable. As mentioned, it doesn't need to be attached to a wall outlet like the desktop amps, making it highly ideal if you game away from a desktop setup.

It's a very clean, fast, neutral sounding portable amp (the most neutral Fiio amp). It has a generous amount of gain, so harder to drive headphone used with microphones for chat purposes won't be an issue (unless of course you're attempting to use something like the harder to drive planar magnetics like the HE-4, HE-5LE, HE-6, and electrostatics. It's not a desktop amp killer, but a desktop amp alternative.

The bass boost is really high quality from what I'm personally hearing, basically targeted at around 50hz, and not being a broad range bass boost which tends to be more intrusive. It will add a nice layer of warmth and impact. Though I don't find much use for the Crossfeed, it's there if you happen to own older recordings with really bad left/right stereo pannings which cause ear fatigue. Take note that crossfeed being on will noticeably reduce soundstage and merge the left/right channels slightly.

If you're OCD about having the quitest noise floor, bear in mind that usb charging may/will add some slight noise/interference. Slight.

I'd personally would still go for a desktop amp for 600ohm headphones, but anything 300ohm or less (again, with the harder to drive planarmagnetic/electristatic exceptions) should be fair game to the E12. That being said, the E12 is more than capable of at least driving 600ohm headphone like the DT990/600 to ear splitting levels.


----------



## appsmarsterx

hi Mad Lust Envy, just saw you review on MA900.. glad you are really enjoying it  .. I'm really interested in your impressions on MA900 as a gaming can, since it has a massive open sound stage. hope you add MA900 to this thread soon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was more an impression than review, lol. I like them well enough. I need to spend quite a bit of time with them...


----------



## ethan7000

Thank you, great reviews. Appreciate the e12 review, been looking at them some.


----------



## crazyg0od33

Well, I'm on vacation right now but my beyer custom one pros were delivered today. Can't wait to get home and try them!


----------



## ethan7000

What would you all suggest for a portable circumaural set - some that can be driven easily, you can lay your head down with, and doesn't look too goofy when worn. Love the X1, but the size of the cups prevents laying down without putting your hands behind your head.


----------



## DemonFox

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'm in love.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
   
  For those that want to try these out, this is the cheapest I could find new. 
   
Sony MA900 New on eBay
   
  Thanks,


----------



## Makiah S

:O So MadLust my Akg K550 are in... and I do love them very much <3. Granted on my home righ, the w1000x and DT 990 do better with their Genres of choice, but as an EVERYTHING, I'm VERY happy with it's perfomance! It's only a touch "worse" than my other 2 cans, and it's much easier to put on than my w1000x. The Ath A900x will be here soon... I think it's destined for a quick resale here on Head Fi <3


----------



## Kamakahah

I agree about the comfort on those Sony phones. I tried them at a meet and they were almost forgot they were on. 

Nothing stood out to me in the sound department. No wow factor, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. 

I'd like to see how they fair for surround gaming. 

On a side note, Jude happened by just as I took them off. He commented how he really liked them. I'm guessing for similar reasons.


----------



## pyed

I'm getting the X1 + Astro MixAmp for gaming, would throwing an amplifier like the E12 between them make noticeable difference ? would the overall experience get boosted by 15%-25% ? more or less ?


----------



## ethan7000

Can't speak fro the MixAmp, but the DSS sounds better with an amp.  You wouldn't need the power of the e12 - could get an e11 at half the price, or the e17 and have a DAC plus treble / bass control.


----------



## pervysage

What would you guys suggest for closed bass head headphones? (for a fan of the K702 Annie and X1's)
   
  Any closed headphones that still do pretty well for games (positional cues, etc)? I know they wouldn't be as good as open headphones for that purpose, but any that still do it pretty well?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





pervysage said:


> What would you guys suggest for closed bass head headphones? (for a fan of the K702 Annie and X1's)
> 
> Any closed headphones that still do pretty well for games (positional cues, etc)? I know they wouldn't be as good as open headphones for that purpose, but any that still do it pretty well?


 
   
  The Mad Dogs are a great but I wouldn't consider them bass heavy. I say its bass is somewhere between the Annie and X1, and it plays very well with bass boost switches from my E12 or iCAN.
   
  Another closed headphone I may recommend would be the SoundMAGIC HP100. Great bassy can without hampering other frequencies, with a real nice soundstage for a closed headphone... larger than the MDs. The MDs are superior, technically, though. Similar to how the Annies are superior to the X1 in technicality. The HP100 is very efficient, too, so they may pair better with your X1 to avoid changing gains and volume adjusting when switching back and forth between the two.
   
  Edit: Or you can give the HP-800 that MLE just reviewed a try... though I have not heard them. Sounds like MLE was very impressed by the bass on those cans. Also, Evs may can give you some impressions on the M100 he just got recently.


----------



## DemonFox

pervysage said:


> What would you guys suggest for closed bass head headphones? (for a fan of the K702 Annie and X1's)
> 
> Any closed headphones that still do pretty well for games (positional cues, etc)? I know they wouldn't be as good as open headphones for that purpose, but any that still do it pretty well?




@Ero-Sennin  

Not to be the guy but the M-100's are pretty much it in the portable realm with out spending a lot on the edition 8's. Fun sounding but still very accurate. Soundstage is massive! Highs and mids are super smooth and you can use them straight out if a player and get great sound. Amp them and they scale up quite well. Very impressive all around. They took over my MMX-300's as my gaming pair so that was a huge surprise. 

Thanks,

:evil:

Edit:

Sorry not just for portable but for the money they are a steal. For under a grand closed bass heavy but perfect cans I would say TH600's Hands down. Only flaw is isolation isn't great but everything else is dang near flawless


----------



## Currawong

Just a note guys: Group buys and group-buy sites, including discussion of them is not permitted on Head-Fi. There have been major problems in the past with group buys in the past, hence the rule.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I thought I had escaped the Head-Fi/eBay trap at long last.
   
  Well, now I'm $405 deeper in the hole, but given that it's something that usually goes for $500+, I figured that I had to try and take a shot at it.
   
  If this works out...this could lead to a future MLE review, if he can cover the shipping costs that come with this sort of thing. You'll all know once it arrives...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interested in finding out what it is...

I assume it's the HE-500. Unless it's another 'stat. :eek:

I just sold my TV, so I'm not gonna be as in the red as before. I might return the E12 though, as I'm sort of happy with the X1 just off the E17. Not sure on what I'm gonna do with the MA-900 has I have yet to hear it for gaming. That too sounds swell off the E17 as well, but it's a situational headphone. I would prefer the HD650/Annie as my alternatives to the X1... though I wouldn't buy them again. I'd have to get another full sized amp again...

So i fixed a few errors on my CAL/HP800/E12 reviews on the front page.

If you guys haven't noticed, the CAL review is COMPLETELY new, despite having a CAL review up for ages.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Interested in finding out what it is...
> 
> I assume it's the HE-500.


 
   
  Sorry, not the HE-500 (as if I could get one of those at near-HE-400 prices)...or any headphone in this case, though it will come with a headphone. Maybe two. That depends on how this next potential deal goes.
   
  Regardless, the headphones would be as good as useless to you without it, especially since your Marantz SR5002's failure just eliminated the cheaper alternative. That should tell you what I'm talking about right there.
   
  And speaking of TVs...after a decade of service, the living room Hitachi 43FWX20B is totally crapping out convergence-wise. I have a very good idea as to why...but fixing it is going to entail replacing a couple of ICs (soldering necessary) and making sure they don't overheat and cook themselves.
   
  Too bad, since my family isn't in an overall position to buy a new living room HDTV, especially not in the 42-50" range. (And especially not with my demand for the lowest input lag and highest image quality possible.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ooooh, nice. Can't wait to see.


----------



## Change is Good

Everyone's coming up with all these surprises, I see. I might just have to come up with one, myself... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Edit: Who am I kidding... too broke right now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm half tempted to get the Pro 900 again, and running it off the E17 with a massive treble reduction.


----------



## Change is Good

I've got something up my sleeve that not many people know about. I just have to find it from somewhere for a more  reasonable price because all I'm finding atm is higher than retail.


----------



## Skipshrike

pyed said:


> I'm getting the X1 + Astro MixAmp for gaming, would throwing an amplifier like the E12 between them make noticeable difference ? would the overall experience get boosted by 15%-25% ? more or less ?



 
 I've been happy with the X1 and Astro Mixamp 2011. I do not have to crank up the volume to hear an excellent soundstage in Halo 4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I said on the X1 review. Again, people don't seem to ever look at the guide itself. 



> The X1 is quite sensitive, and I feel that for console gaming, the Mixamp alone is enough.




And boosting SQ percentages is impossible. No amp is going to magically boost SQ by a dramatic amount. It's more about providing clean, efficient power, for when going off weak sources is detrimental to sound quality. It's not about boosting anything. Don't believe that sort of hype. The only time that is true is when a headphone is very hard to drive. The X1 is very efficient. You can believe the hyperbole, but it simply is not a hard headphone to drive.


----------



## Change is Good

Come to think of it I'm actually really happy with what I have. I don't see myself getting rid of either the MDs or AEs anytime soon... even with the Alphas that were just announced.
   
  Anything else I end up buying will be out of pure curiosity rather than an upgrade.


----------



## keeper83

Hi guys, I'm here for a little help 
   
  I explain what I have and what I need:
   
  My current gear is this:
   
  - Mixamp 2011 version 5.1
  - Audio technica AD700 + boom mic mod
   
   
  I'm searching for a good Headphone for single player games and for non competitive multiplayer, which has good soundstage and basses.
   
  I had a year ago the beyerdynamic DT770 pro 80 ohm (which the wixamp could drive good), but they had a little too much basses for my taste. 
   
  My budget is 250 € and I wanted to buy the beyerdynamic DT990 
   
  Now, my question is this:
   
  Can the mixamp drive good the DT990 - 32ohm ?
   
  Or is it better for me to buy the DT990 pro edition 250 ohm and pair them with mixamp + fii e11
   
  Also:
  1) Can the fiio E11 drive them?
  2) Mixing it with the mixamp would get some noise or buzz?
   
  The prices here are these:
   
  DT990 - 32 ohm: 230 €
  DT990 pro - 250 ohm: 130 €
  Fiio E11 - 60 €
   
   
  I really don't know what to do. In theory I would like to buy the dt990 - 32ohm but ONLY if you can tell me that the mixamp and portable devices can drive them without problems.
   
   
  Thank you guys, I appreciate your help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the Fidelio X1 instead. That WILL be driven nicely by the Mixamp alone, or by portable amps when not gaming. Even sounds great just off my Galaxy Note II.

The 32ohm 990 is harder to drive properly than the 250ohm. The 32ohm is louder off normal devices, but sounds weak as hell until you put some power behind them. the 250ohm is lower in volume but sounds more refined. This is why the 32ohm is a waste.

The X1 has a nice soundstage and good bass. it also sounds better than all the 990s, IMHO.


----------



## keeper83

mad lust envy said:


> Get the Fidelio X1 instead. That WILL be driven nicely by the Mixamp alone, or by portable amps when not gaming. Even sounds great just off my Galaxy Note II.
> 
> The 32ohm 990 is harder to drive properly than the 250ohm. The 32ohm is louder off normal devices, but sounds weak as hell until you put some power behind them. the 250ohm is lower in volume but sounds more refined. This is why the 32ohm is a waste.
> 
> The X1 has a nice soundstage and good bass. it also sounds better than all the 990s, IMHO.



 
 Thanks! I checked and the Fidelio X1/00 (hope this is the model) costs me 199 € Should I get also a Fiio E11, (it is in my budget) or I don't need it? (I own a Fiio E5, if is enough) Thank you again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is good just off the Mixamp. For music use, I'd say the E11 is plenty of amp for it (judging by how good it sounds off my E17 which has similar power to the E11). I haven't owned an E5 in years, and I don't consider it much of an amp, though it's very clean sounding.


----------



## Dobbie

Hi guys,
   
  I'm here for a little help, as well. After reading Mad Lust Envy's awesome guide, I decided to purchase the DT 990 250ohm pros. They seemed like the best all-around choice for me. My question is, what amp would be best for these? Sadly, I'm pretty nooby in this area. I'd say I'm a 50/50 mix between music (all kinds) and gaming. I don't have a huge budget - less than $100. I'm using the on-board sound card for the Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 -- 4x PCI-E 2.0 x16. I'd prefer to not have one that has to charge everyday, but not totally against it. Any tips or help in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





dobbie said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm here for a little help, as well. After reading Mad Lust Envy's awesome guide, I decided to purchase the DT 990 250ohm pros. They seemed like the best all-around choice for me. My question is, what amp would be best for these? Sadly, I'm pretty nooby in this area. I'd say I'm a 50/50 mix between music (all kinds) and gaming. I don't have a huge budget - less than $100. I'm using the on-board sound card for the Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 -- 4x PCI-E 2.0 x16. I'd prefer to not have one that has to charge everyday, but not totally against it. Any tips or help in this area would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


 
   
  The Fiio E9k would be my suggestion for that budget...


----------



## Dobbie

Thanks for the reply. Will I need anything else to go with it? Is the E9k going to be sufficient or is just the only option really for my budget?


----------



## davidsh

I think nameless is getting a Stax amp along with an earspeaker or two.. Just couldn't help spoil it.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm sure there are other desktop options in that budget but I only have experience with the E9k. I think there's a Schiit and a few others in that budget but don't know how powerful they are.

As for anything else you might need? A mixamp or DSS if you want to game with surround sound... as both have Dolby Headphone which are the preferred choice for most people. The mixamp would be the ideal choice if you want to chat during online gaming.

Disregard the above as I didn't even pay attention to you mentioning you have an on board sound card... meaning you are on PC. That, I have no knowledge about... so maybe other amp options could be better choices. Wait on others to chime in... they'll help you much more than I can.


----------



## keeper83

Just to know:
   
  For virtual audio 5.1/7.1, do you still advice mixamp? Or there is something better for the same price?


----------



## benbenkr

The other universal option is Creative's Recond3D USB, uses THX TruStudio though of which... well, many don't like. But there are some who absolutely stand by it. My take, it's a preference thing when it comes to HRTF tech and THX TruStudio isn't as horrible as many others make it out to be.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like THX tru studio, but not as much as Dolby Headphone. The panning is inaccurate in comparison, and the rear cues arent as deep.


----------



## dakanao

Well guys, we'll have to wait 1 month until the great game...


----------



## pietcux

Which great game???


----------



## theOmni

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> Which great game???


 
  Strange...Battlefield 4 comes out in 2 months, and Total War: Rome II comes out in about 2 weeks...what game could he be talking about??


----------



## crazyg0od33

Wasn't he the same guy who posted a few pages back randomly saying 'gg guys' and nothing else...


----------



## Change is Good

Only game that comes out in a month that he may be talkin about is GTA V.


----------



## theOmni

Hey guys. I'm in the process of revamping my system in preparation of the new games coming out, namely Battlefield 4. I have an Ultrasone Pro 750 which I like a lot and is great for music and movies, however it doesn't offer too much in terms of gaming. I can hear the footsteps in BF3, and I sometimes I can tell its coming from the left/right, but nothing more specific than that. I'm thinking of buying a new set of headphones just for gaming. The headphones I'm looking at right now are the AD700x and the AD900x. I'm leaning a bit more towards the AD900x because they offer more bass than the 700 as well as similar soundstage. For gaming, what would you guys suggest? the AD900x or AD700x? What would its Fun, Competitive, and Comfort ratings be compared to the 700?
   
  EDIT: Btw, I have the Sound Blaster Z card:
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Beamforming-Microphone-SB1500/dp/B009ISU33E


----------



## dakanao

Quote: 





pietcux said:


> Which great game???


 
  Quote: 





theomni said:


> Strange...Battlefield 4 comes out in 2 months, and Total War: Rome II comes out in about 2 weeks...what game could he be talking about??


 
  GTA V ofcourse!
  Quote: 





crazyg0od33 said:


> Wasn't he the same guy who posted a few pages back randomly saying 'gg guys' and nothing else...


 
  Lol, this actually made me laugh. But no, it wasn't me.


----------



## Evshrug

*WARNING! Lotsa quoting!*



mad lust envy said:


> I just sold my TV, so I'm not gonna be as in the red as before. I might return the E12 though, as I'm sort of happy with the X1 just off the E17. Not sure on what I'm gonna do with the MA-900 has I have yet to hear it for gaming. That too sounds swell off the E17 as well, but it's a situational headphone. I would prefer the HD650/Annie as my alternatives to the X1... though I wouldn't buy them again. I'd have to get another full sized amp again...
> 
> If you guys haven't noticed, the CAL review is COMPLETELY new, despite having a CAL review up for ages.




Well, are you using the E17 DAC for your laptop? Sounded like you were happy enough with it for stereo stuff (music), since that costs about as much as the E12, you might consider which'll be more beneficial for you in the long run. I agree with you, once you have enough power and not a crappy SQ-reducing amp, then there isn't much sonic difference between this solid state amp and that one. With the curiosity you have towards headphones (and I believe that once your literal fortunes change, you'll happily continue exploring more headphones), you more need a versatile amp than an external DAC. Do you still have your D30k for your laptop surround chain? I mean, do what you want, but I suspect that the E17 will not suit your needs for as long as the E12 could.

Also, noted the CAL! update, I actually recommended those to a coworker who was curious about headphones for gaming lately, and used your article to explain "why."



change is good said:


> The Mad Dogs are a great but I wouldn't consider them bass heavy. I say its bass is somewhere between the Annie and X1, and it plays very well with bass boost switches from my E12 or iCAN.
> 
> Edit: Or you can give the HP-800 that MLE just reviewed a try... though I have not heard them. Sounds like MLE was very impressed by the bass on those cans. Also, Evs may can give you some impressions on the M100 he just got recently.



Oh, didn't know you picked up an E12 too.
Is there a demand for a formal gaming V-MODA M-100 review, you think? I kinda have time today...




demonfox said:


> @Ero-Sennin
> 
> Not to be the guy but the M-100's are pretty much it in the portable realm with out spending a lot on the edition 8's. Fun sounding but still very accurate. Soundstage is massive! Highs and mids are super smooth and you can use them straight out if a player and get great sound. Amp them and they scale up quite well. Very impressive all around. They took over my MMX-300's as my gaming pair so that was a huge surprise.



Apparently I wasn't the only one who was interested, but my thoughts echo these statements. I can't call the soundstage massive after the AD700 and Q701, *but* it satisfies me which IMO is impressive for a closed headphone (Chico recently said he was a soundstage freak, it is also one of my #1 facets/hallmarks of great headphones). Kind of like how people describe the Denon DH1001 and clone CAL!, it has better soundstage than a closed headphone has any right to, and imaging is actually quite good despite the bass firmness/body.

They don't need an extra amp, sensitive and only 32 Ohms, though without the dampening effect of higher-ohms I can definitely hear the noise floor on the DSS and to an extent on my tube amp too. Sound great out of my iDevices though, and I can get over the low hiss of the DSS during gameplay.

One of my favorite things about the M-100 is the fun-yet-non-fatiguing sound, no glare, though the earpads and even headband eventually become physically fatiguing. Overall the Q701 has more bite and realism, more comfort, overall I prefer to choose them if available but... I brought the Q's to work once, to let my coworker demo them, two other people laughed at the price and said it looked like a helmet, but I take the M-100 everywhere and have been using them more than any other since I got them.




change is good said:


> Everyone's coming up with all these surprises, I see. I might just have to come up with one, myself... h34r:
> 
> Edit: Who am I kidding... too broke right now... :frown:



I just got a new DAC/amp! Comes with a computer attached, too! 
But in all seriousness, I bought a Mac Mini because I needed a reliable computer and it's going to pay for itself with some graphic and photo work, but I wouldn't have bought it if I couldn't justify it. I applaud the wisdom it takes to realize that you enjoy and are happy with current kit, and it seems you understand just how great your stuff is. Every time I hear speakers at someone else's house, or even go to the theater, I realize that I've already surpassed need, and when I start lusting other headphones or gadgets it's usually coming from a perspective that I'm trying to keep up instead that I'm unhappy with what I have. The Q701 is GREAT, it's spoiled me, and now I've satisfied my spoiling by having the M-100 for out-of-the-house or closed usage... Don't have any holes in my audio lineup, just in (several) socks.
If you realize you are happy with what you have, kudos to you.



skipshrike said:


> I've been happy with the X1 and Astro Mixamp 2011. I do not have to crank up the volume to hear an excellent soundstage in Halo 4.



Halo4. What a high example of audio design, amazing surround and it works really well with headphone surround. Also, it's a poster example of when the Mixamp really proves it's worth: the game doesn't have an option to turn down the game volume, so you need something like a Mixamp to balance the chat and game audio in the analogue stage, because you only have one set of speakers with headphones.



mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is good just off the Mixamp. For music use, I'd say the E11 is plenty of amp for it (judging by how good it sounds off my E17 which has similar power to the E11). I haven't owned an E5 in years, and I don't consider it much of an amp, though it's very clean sounding.




Yeah, I wish I still had my e5 to see if it could reduce the impact of hiss from the DSS with lower-ohm headphones, but it may not make a difference. Signal issues versus impedance effects... It's relatively confusing, easier to just experiment and test in person.


----------



## Evshrug

"GG guys!" Sounds like something I would do, if manic and tired, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Well, that's another $320 in the hole thanks to eBay...
   
  ...but if this works out and none of what I bought turns out defective, then MLE better start preparing for a review of some nice vintage equipment! (And the rest of you might wanna prepare your wallets too, because I'm gonna have to sell off some spare stuff after this!)


----------



## pyed

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> What I said on the X1 review. Again, people don't seem to ever look at the guide itself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  I read your X1 review three times and i had to ask this question 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 things now a lot clearer for me, thx


----------



## theOmni

Can anyone comment on AD900x vs AD700x for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Well, that's another $320 in the hole thanks to eBay...
> 
> ...but if this works out and none of what I bought turns out defective, then MLE better start preparing for a review of some nice vintage equipment! (And the rest of you might wanna prepare your wallets too, because I'm gonna have to sell off some spare stuff after this!)




h34r:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Selling my E12 if anyone is interested.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/677682/f-s-fiio-e12-mont-blanc-portable-amp#post_9723364


----------



## davidsh

Sooo, nameless got a lambda pro in case anyone missed it. Dunno about the amp yet, except he got an srd-6 with the lambdas, but I suppose he'll be getting a dedicated amp for the lambdas.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> Sooo, nameless got a lambda pro in case anyone missed it. Dunno about the amp yet, except he got an srd-6 with the lambdas, but I suppose he'll be getting a dedicated amp for the lambdas.


 
   
  From my scrutiny, it's a Normal bias SR-Lambda. I wouldn't want MLE judging all the original Lambdas by a set that isn't even in a stock state, though I'll throw the one I'm currently using in alongside the new one.
   
  Otherwise, I wouldn't have bid on it. Especially not with the reputation of the Lambda Pro having a recessed midrange.
   
  I can tell you that I'll probably just sell off the SRD-6, seeing as I already have the SRD-7/SB, and it would be as good as useless to MLE with his Marantz SR-5002 dead and all. That's where that other auction comes in...the seller better pack that one up well!


----------



## Evshrug

So... I could hook this Normal bias SR-Lambda, which happens to be your all-time fav headphone, to my Yamaha receiver? Or are you saying you need a backup unit? Or, is this an different one from the non-numbered one you have, and an upgrade?


----------



## burritoboy9984

evshrug said:


> So... I could hook this Normal bias SR-Lambda, which happens to be your all-time fav headphone, to my Yamaha receiver? Or are you saying you need a backup unit? Or, is this an different one from the non-numbered one you have, and an upgrade?




There are 2 types of drive units for Stax headphones, amps and transformer adapter boxes. The amps simply work off of rca or balanced inputs and drive the "earspeakers" from there. The adapter boxes plug into a speaker amp, and the power gets amplified via transformers to drive the "earspeakers".

So the answer is no, you need something else to drive Stax, you can't just plug them into your receiver.

-Erik


----------



## Evshrug

I assumed the transformer box would be included, I was referring to hooking the earspeakers+transformer to the receiver's speaker taps.


----------



## theOmni

Has anyone tried the ATH-AD900X?


----------



## miceblue

All electrostatic headphones need a special electrostatic amplifier to properly charge up the diaphragm to the specified voltage bias. I am quite certain your receiver can't apply a 320 V bias for the normal bias electrostatic headphones. Not to mention your receiver not having the 6-pin balanced plug.

Or you can use an energiser, which allows you to use a power amp to get the proper volatage bias.


----------



## Evshrug

N R Gize!


----------



## Eric_C

Mad, about the PLYR 1 on Xbox: does the audio sometimes cut in and out on you? 
  Was just playing Crackdown (free! woohoo for XBL Gold!) and game audio occasionally stopped transmitting, only to continue a heartbeat later.


----------



## About7Narwhal

What surround device did you use to test the K702 Anniversary phones? I am leaning towards them for my gaming and movie setup but I am having a hard time deciding which mixer to go with for xbox and playstation. Taking suggestions on a surround device and an amp if it will be needed.
   
  Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





about7narwhal said:


> What surround device did you use to test the K702 Anniversary phones? I am leaning towards them for my gaming and movie setup but I am having a hard time deciding which mixer to go with for xbox and playstation. Taking suggestions on a surround device and an amp if it will be needed.
> 
> Thanks


 
   
  Surround device will depend if you absolutely need chat or not. The Astro mixamp will be the ideal choice if so, and if chat isn't necessary go with the much cheaper DSS v1.
   
  As for which amp, what is your budget?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eric_c said:


> Mad, about the PLYR 1 on Xbox: does the audio sometimes cut in and out on you?
> 
> Was just playing Crackdown (free! woohoo for XBL Gold!) and game audio occasionally stopped transmitting, only to continue a heartbeat later.




I didn't have the 360 when using the Plyr 1. It did cut out when starting some games. It always happened in Castlevania HD. The fix was to go to the base and toggle the DH button off and back on. That or turning the base off/on.

It seems to drop audio once in awhile when the signal changed or stopped on the PS3 (like the menu being PCM, and switching to Dolby Digital when a game launched).


----------



## Eric_C

Huh, weird. But ok, fix seems easy enough. Thanks!


----------



## About7Narwhal

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Surround device will depend if you absolutely need chat or not. The Astro mixamp will be the ideal choice if so, and if chat isn't necessary go with the much cheaper DSS v1.
> 
> As for which amp, what is your budget?


 
   
  I absolutely need the best surround solution, I can manage chat via another method if needed through skype, vent, or another method.As long as the sound is good, I will work around my other needs as they come up. Also, on the 360 (my main gaming unit) could I not just run a clip mic through the controller and have game audio that way?
   
  As for an amp, I am spending quite a bit on the phones, so I am willing to spend about as much on an amp IF it will make a difference in audio quality. So probably ~$500 would be my max, but I prefer less.
   
  I appreciate the input.


----------



## ShooK

Would you guys still recommend the astro a40 2013s for $150 if you already own the 2011 mixamp? I'm looking for something that does alright with music as well since my other headset/headphone broke a while back.. I mainly listen to rap but sometimes deviate into rock/electronic music(rare though). How are the astros for music in general?


----------



## theOmni

Alright guys!
   
  Sound Blaster Z -> Earforce DSS 7.1 -> AKG q701!!
   
  Hope this rocks!


----------



## xero404

Finally got my Asgard 2 in and it sounds pretty amazing with the modded 555's. can't wait to try the X1. Then when the time comes either get an HE-400 or the Mad Dogs.

 Though i noticed if go past the 12 o'clock position i'm starting to hear a hiss and faint beeping from the x-fi no matter if the PC volume is at 0%, 70% or 100%..... When i turn off my computer theres isn't any hiss or beeps.gonna try to find some shielded RCA cables from Blue Jeans Cable. Worst case i'll pick up a xonar essence stx since it has more EMI shielding.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





xero404 said:


> Finally got my Asgard 2 in and it sounds pretty amazing with the modded 555's. can't wait to try the X1. Then when the time comes either get an HE-400 or the Mad Dogs.
> 
> Though i noticed if go past the 12 o'clock position i'm starting to hear a hiss and faint beeping from the x-fi no matter if the PC volume is at 0%, 70% or 100%..... When i turn off my computer theres isn't any hiss or beeps.gonna try to find some shielded RCA cables from Blue Jeans Cable. Worst case i'll pick up a xonar essence stx since it has more EMI shielding.


 
  Do you mean you hear hiss in the headphones if the Asgard is at 12?  That would be normal with the 555's because the Asgard puts out 1w at 50ohm and the 555's are high sensitivity.


----------



## xero404

i have it on the low gain (1.5x) setting if that makes a difference. There isn't a hiss from the HD555s when i have my computer off and i use my ipod classic LOD to the Asgard 2.


----------



## ethan7000

Ah, I see


----------



## ethan7000

X1 coming out of the Starlight is beautiful - it just sings now


----------



## Evshrug

theomni said:


> Alright guys!
> 
> Sound Blaster Z -> Earforce DSS 7.1 -> AKG q701!!
> 
> Hope this rocks!




Waaaait... Why do you have two surround processors there?
If you're gaming on PC, you just need Creative Sound Blaster Z (or ZxR) and AKG Q701, the DSS wouldn't do anything for you. If you're gaming on console, you just need DSS and headphone. Are you actually talking about two setups here?


----------



## theOmni

evshrug said:


> Waaaait... Why do you have two surround processors there?
> If you're gaming on PC, you just need Creative Sound Blaster Z (or ZxR) and AKG Q701, the DSS wouldn't do anything for you. If you're gaming on console, you just need DSS and headphone. Are you actually talking about two setups here?




well, from what I've read, some people don't like the surround sound processing of the SB A's so they bypass it's surround sound processor (SBX) and add the Dolby surround processor. I haven't bought the DSS yet, but they're there as an option in case I don't like the surround from the card


----------



## Evshrug

theomni said:


> well, from what I've read, some people don't like the surround sound processing of the SB A's so they bypass it's surround sound processor (SBX) and add the Dolby surround processor. I haven't bought the DSS yet, but they're there as an option in case I don't like the surround from the card



The DSS won't work that way with a PC, unless you can output Dolby Digital Live from an Optical Output. If you want Dolby Headphone from your PC, you'll need an Asus product like the U3, U7, or one of Asus' internal Xonar cards instead of the Sound Blaster. The DSS is intended for consoles only. You could input stereo sound into the DSS and fake surround using DH processing, but stereo into DH sounds worse than stereo or DH fed a proper surround signal.


----------



## ethan7000

I think he has the Z which has DDL


----------



## theOmni

Yup, the card can output Dolby Digital Live, just not Dolby Headphone. Instead of DH, it uses SBX. I just want to see how SBX is, otherwise I will buy the DSS, connect it via optical out and adjust the appropriate settings on my sound card.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cant you demo SBX for free? Tried it, didnt like it at all...


----------



## theOmni

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Cant you demo SBX for free? Tried it, didnt like it at all...


 
  What did you feel it was lacking? I basically got this card for free from my credit card company after accumulating points. I would have gone the Asus route, but it wasn't available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The rear positional cues sounded almost identical to the front ones, in that it didn't even sound like it was behind you. That makes the surround useless to me.


----------



## chicolom

MA900s get here tommorow.  I hope they don't suck.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sure you'll really like them. Not AKG level refined, but well balanced, smooth, and classified all rounders for gaming if I ever heard any. I would consider them budget Annies, with more soundstage, less body and refinement. They make absolutely wonderful gaming cans.

The pads though... they suck. They have like no density whatsoever and compress immediately.


----------



## NamelessPFG

That SR-Lambda arrived today, and it's in remarkably good condition, certainly better than the set I've been using this whole time. I feel comfortable letting Mad Lust Envy use this as a reference.
   
  Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on that SRM-T1, and a potential review has no chance of happening until that gets delivered and proven to work.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'm sure you'll really like them. Not AKG level refined, but well balanced, smooth, and classified all rounders for gaming if I ever heard any. I would consider them budget Annies, with more soundstage, less body and refinement. They make absolutely wonderful gaming cans.
> 
> The pads though... they suck. They have like no density whatsoever and compress immediately.




So... Kinda like a smoother AD700.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> That SR-Lambda arrived today, and it's in remarkably good condition, certainly better than the set I've been using this whole time. I feel comfortable letting Mad Lust Envy use this as a reference.
> 
> Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on that SRM-T1, and a potential review has no chance of happening until that gets delivered and proven to work.



Well what are you doing with the "old" one, keeping it as a backup for this vintage headphone?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well what are you doing with the "old" one, keeping it as a backup for this vintage headphone?


 
   
  Normally, I would...but since finances are a bit tight for plainly obvious reasons, I'm going to sell it and both of the SRD boxes.
   
  The SRD-7/SB stays 'til that SRM-T1 arrives and is proven to work, though.


----------



## About7Narwhal

I'm back.
   
  I have done some reasearch and decided that the DSS v1 would provide the best surround for what I need and will manage the game chatter differently. Past that, I have seen good reviews of the M-Stage USB paired with the AKG K702 - 65's so I might go with that unless someone more experienced has a better suggestion. Lastly, would I need a DAC for console gaming? I notice Mad's chart did not include one, so I am unsure if it would provide any value.
   
  On a side note, if I stream video through my console(via PLEX DLNA), would you guys suggest the same setup or is video playback a whole different ballgame?
   
  Any advice is good advice. Thanks.


----------



## ilGaspa

Hello everyone 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I must admit I subscribed right now to ask for your help.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I received yesterday my brand new DT990 Pro after carefully reading Mad Lust Envy reviews (by the way, thank you for writing 'em)! I really like them (feel the trebles a little to harsh for my taste but everything else is soo great that I was going to ignore this point). 
   
  However, whilst listening to the beginning of Bastille's Laura Palmer I noticed that the left driver vibrates when driven to really low frequencies.. I'm sure it's not the track as I noticed it in other songs then. I'm driving the DT990 trough a Sound Blaster Z so the amping is at least adeguate.. no hairs in the left pad, flat EQ, no effects.. so I'm left with a probably defective DT990 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  This, the trebles and the fact that I can still return them tempts me to change to another model... don't think burn in will solve anything
   
  But wich one? I was looking at the X1 but I tend to sweat a lot (I'm bald.. fully) and i fear the pads won't survive enough to justify the price of the whole headphone.. expecially when in a year they'll be reduced to pieces by sweat.. and these pads aren't replaceable. Otherwise I'd have bought it in first place instead the DT990.
   
  So.. can someone suggest me what should I buy? I'd like something like the DT990 only not defective and a little less harsh treble.. A X1 with replaceable pads  In the same price range..
   
  Envy can you help me? Ideally I'm going to use primarly for movies and non competitive gaming.. so 3d positioning is important but not as much as fun. Everything but my damned sweat screams "X1, X1"... 
   
  Thank you everyone.. and by the way: nice thread


----------



## Evshrug

About7Narwal,
  The DSS would be your DAC. Digital to Analogue Converter.
  Chicolom used an M-Stage product for the longest time (now he has an iCan for amping) with his Q701 and he was very pleased with it, I don't know this USB product you mention but it comes from a respectable brand.
   
  ilGaspa,
  I've got a pretty pronounced widow's peak, heading in the same direction as you, was it a relief to shave it all? But back on-topic, I have also read great things about the DT990, if you think the treble is a touch too much (seems to agree with Mad's observation) then you can choose to either exchange them for another pair and see if you are OK with the treble's edge, or look into other alternatives. I don't know how their track record stands for durability, but the Planar Magnetic HiFiman HE-400 may be a contender for you (still strong but perhaps less so in the treble than the DT990, slightly better in the "Fun" department if you like V-shaped freq responses), also check out the AKG K712 or K701 Anniversaries. The X1 may be more bassy than the K701 anniversaries, BUT if you read the review or go back to Mad's posts when he was experiencing the Annies he was very excited and pleased with them. I personally have Q701, with a baby-seatbelt-wrapper on the headband to alleviate the headband fatigue (feels great now), and though I wouldn't say the bass stands out as louder or more prominent than the rest of the freq range, I WOULD say these are definitely fun headphones with a bit of magic.
  How are you liking the Sound Blaster Z? I'm thinking about picking one up, but I got a hint from Creative's social media team that they're working on an update to the Recon3D USB external sound card that I had before and liked.


----------



## ethan7000

ilGaspa, I sweat into some HD580's for 10 years and the pads were still fine. I think some people make too much of the non-replaceable pads, I still say you could go X1.

Evshrug, the Z uses the Cirrus Logic's flagship DAC, the CS4398 for headphone and line out. My Z is the revision with all gold caps. I'm using the line out, stereo direct for music and it sounds fantastic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> So... Kinda like a smoother AD700.




Hell no. The MA900 has a very good bass response. Not X1 bass, but more in line with the mids than the X1. Reminds me of the Annie's bass presence. Not as much sub bass though. Also the mids are nice and full, and the treble isnt harsh and grainy. The only thing remotely cllse to the AD700 is that they are light and have a big soundstage. Thats it. Even the tonality is the polar opposite.

They're a lot like a hybrid Q701/Annie, with about HD558/598 body and technicality. These will be very popular for those not wanting to invest in good amps for the AKGs. I'm very tempted on keeping them. I give them a solid 8. My main gripe is that the pads have no really density and compress way too easily. Also, the sound changes depending on how you put them on. You can give them a less bassy, faster sound if you place your ears closer to the back wall of the pads. That is also the deepest area, and your ears would be virtually untouched by the driver cover. Still, I prefer to put mine right at the center, where I feel is the optimal sound, though my ears do touch.

I'd say comfort is about a 9, with some caveats.


----------



## About7Narwhal

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> About7Narwal,
> The DSS would be your DAC. Digital to Analogue Converter.
> Chicolom used an M-Stage product for the longest time (now he has an iCan for amping) with his Q701 and he was very pleased with it, I don't know this USB product you mention but it comes from a respectable brand.


 
   
   
  Okay, with that in mind it looks like I will go XBOX360/PS3 --> DSSv1 --> M-Stage _HPA-1(USB)_ --> AKG K702 65th.
   
  Going to pull the trigger this week unless some provides an alternative. Thanks for the help with my questions and thanks to Mad for the write up, it made things easier to understand for me where before I was completely confused.


----------



## Change is Good

about7narwhal said:


> Okay, with that in mind it looks like I will go XBOX360/PS3 --> DSSv1 --> M-Stage _HPA-1(USB)_ --> AKG K702 65th.
> 
> Going to pull the trigger this week unless some provides an alternative. Thanks for the help with my questions and thanks to Mad for the write up, it made things easier to understand for me where before I was completely confused.




Great choices, though I would sub the M-Stage for the iCAN. Those EQ switches can be really fun at times. I have both, btw...


----------



## About7Narwhal

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Great choices, though I would sub the M-Stage for the iCAN. Those EQ switches can be really fun at times. I have both, btw...


 
  I will take a look at the iCAN then. I assume it will be a good pairing with the DSSv1? Sounds like the X-Bass and 3D Effect might add a better quality gaming experience, I will do more research tomorrow. Thanks


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Chicolom used an M-Stage product for the longest time (now he has an iCan for amping) with his Q701 and he was very pleased with it...


 
    
  I still have the M-stage, and it's a great amp, but I definitely use the iCan more.  It's a more fun and versatile amp.
   
   
  Quote:


change is good said:


> Great choices, though I would sub the M-Stage for the iCAN. Those EQ switches can be really fun at times. I have both, btw...


 
   
  I think I would too.  The M-stage is slightly better than the iCan as a pure amp, but the iCan is still pretty close to it.  And once you flip the switches on the iCan it passes the M-stage up, so to speak.   If I could only keep one, it would be the iCan.

   
  Quote: 





about7narwhal said:


> I will take a look at the iCAN then. I assume it will be a good pairing with the DSSv1? Sounds like the X-Bass and 3D Effect might add a better quality gaming experience, I will do more research tomorrow. Thanks


 
   
  The XBass is good for gaming.  The 3D switch is designed for stereo music and it can sound a little weird when you stack it on top of Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

ethan7000 said:


> ilGaspa, I sweat into some HD580's for 10 years and the pads were still fine. I think some people make too much of the non-replaceable pads, I still say you could go X1.
> 
> Evshrug, the Z uses the Cirrus Logic's flagship DAC, the CS4398 for headphone and line out. My Z is the revision with all gold caps. I'm using the line out, stereo direct for music and it sounds fantastic.



Was the gold-capacitor Z a short-lived run that is no longer available, or could I go to amazon now and get one like yours?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Sony MA-900 is impressing me more and more. The bass is good, the soundstage is great, the balance/warmth/body is great, the comfort is great. It makes a SERIOUSLY great alternative for the X1. Both are easy to drive (the MA-900 more so), both do exceedingly well for gaming and music, with the MA900 being a bit less fatiguing in the upper range, and better in the mids, while the X1 is a little more bass oriented and overall more refined.

To top it off, the MA900 is not picky about output impedance due to the impedance compensator.

For the price, I don't think I could recommend any other headphone more than the MA-900. It's REALLY good. 

My personal problem is that it caters to the same things that X1 does for me to warrant keeping both. I do feel like I can just toss my MA900 with more abandon due to it's simpler aesthetics and black plastic finish. I'd be more wary of abusing the X1 in fears of scratching it.

Time will tell.

For under $200, the MA-900 is going to be my top recommendation for all purpose uses. Music, gaming, movies. Jack of all trades.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Was the gold-capacitor Z a short-lived run that is no longer available, or could I go to amazon now and get one like yours?


 
   
  No gold capacitor in the world could make up for the quality differences between the Z and the ZxR. Get the ZxR before pondering about gold caps.


----------



## ilGaspa

@Evshrug:
   
 Ok, let's start with the OT part  Shaving it all was the best thing I've ever done, never looked back since: more confortable, better looking and better feeling. Only problem.. shaving means that there's nothing keeping your skin oil from getting transferred so be prepared to wash your hands every time you touch your head and clean the headphones continuously.. That's the price if you sweat a lot.
   
  Back on track  I'd rather go with something else instead of replacing the DT990: don't get me wrong, these are GREAT headphones, the bass is perfect for games even when positional audio is on. The Bioshock Infinite intro at the lighthouse with just SBX Surround on (no other crystalizer or enhanched bass effects) is simply great, you can phisically "feel" the lighthouse switch activating without the sound being overwhelming. However treble is excessive sometimes.. at moderate sound levels, listening to Celine's "I Surrender", her highs felt like a knife in my skull, whilst everything else felt low in comparison. Actually I had to lower the volume a little and enjoy less mids and bass to get to whitstand the trebles. Overall a great headphone but you have to love vivid sounds. In the end I think I'll go with the X1.. Here where I live the X1 costs 199 euros, wich is already 60 more than the DT990.. going to the other model you mentioned would cost me at least 270! it's too much for me, I can't afford it. Let's hope that in a 2-3 years someone sells replacement pads for the X1, even third party :| After all this model is having a pretty high approval factor, I hope some third party starts making replacement parts. 
   
  As for the Sound Blaster, it's a mixed bag: hardware wise is great, drivers are so so at least now. No problems at all but it misses a few core functionalities needed if you have a 5.1 setup. For example, a stereo signal can only be heard from the front speakers OR upmixed to a virtual 5.1 surround trough SBX surround. The simple and beloved "5 channel stereo without virtualization" is missing.. and there are a lot of peoples angry at creative for this. SBX surroung is, IMHO, inferior to the old CMSS3D too. If you can go for the Titanium HD: the sheer functionalities missing fron the Z drivers made me wonder if I should return that too..
   
  @ethan7000:
   
  Thank you. I hope you're right about the pads durability..
  I admit that I'm so worried about it because the pads an old pair of Philips I had literally literally "pulverized" themselves in a couple of years.. they melted away and become toner like dust.. -.- but I'm speaking about headphones I had when I was 13 and that costed 60 bucks... the pads were made of the same foam used for earbuds cushions... so nothing like the X1.
  As I said above: I hope that some third party start making X1 replacements parts


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ilGaspa: Sony MA900.


See how much that costs. I believe these will be THE headphone to get under $200. I'm running off the E17, and I prefer it over how they sounded off the E12. I dunno, the E12 was TOO clean. I prefer the slight warmth the E17 adds. Really brings out the MA900 for me.

My recommendations:

$0-$100: Creative Aurvana Live

$100-200: Sony MA-900, DT990 Pro

$200-$300: Philips Fidelio X1

$300-400: K702 65th Anniversary




It's preliminary, but I'm looking at:

MA-900:
Fun: 8
Competitive: 9
Comfort: 9


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> My recommendations:
> 
> $0-$100: Creative Aurvana Live
> ...


 
   
  And even though you haven't heard the K712 yet I think you can add it to the $300-$400 range as they sound really similar when using the stock pads on each (as chico confirmed)
   
   
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> It's preliminary, but I'm looking at:
> 
> MA-900:
> Fun: 8
> ...


 
   
  Those are some impressive scores for a sub $200 can.
   
  I really wish that cable was detachable, though


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, MLE, you have me intrigued now. I must know this comfort you speak of.
   
  Problem is, I just blew way too much money on headphones and an amp already, so even the relatively affordable MA900 is out of the question. Worse off, I don't know if it'll stay affordable for long since you've just given a big boost to its popularity with that endorsement.
   
  Care to set up a temporary headphone swap later? You know exactly what I have in mind by now, I'm sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just remember, it's scores based off it's own merits, and considering it's price, etc.

But yeah, it's pretty damn good. I might send it to you guys for testing soon if you want if I don't end up selling it at some point in the near future.

I really believe in this headphone, and I think more exposure would really help it out.

I just wish the pads had densitiy and didn't compress. The comfort would be a 10. Your ears will touch the driver cover... doesn't bother me, but it would further put them on top in comfort. Easily. They weigh nothing, don't clamp much, and almost disappear otherwise.

If I were to score it's clarity and refinement, I'd say it's like a 7.75 next to the X1's 8.25, next to the K70x's (all forms) 9. Just theoretical numbers. 7.75 = REEEEEALLY GOOD


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My personal problem is that it caters to the same things that X1 does for me to warrant keeping both.


 
   
  ...You and your "1 headphone only" policy.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Just remember, it's scores based off it's own merits, and considering it's price, etc.
> 
> But yeah, it's pretty damn good. I might send it to you guys for testing soon if you want if I don't end up selling it at some point in the near future.


 
   
  I don't know how much credibility I have but I would dig giving these a try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, didn't you get it yourself? Not yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I don't know how much credibility I have but I would dig giving these a try.




I'd definitely send it to you. You'd more than likely would be first, considering you're next door almost.

It'd be the typical guys:

Evs, Chico (though I'm sure he's getting his), Nameless, calpis (I see you bud), and probably tdock if he's interested.

No promises. If I put it up for sale after review, I'll give it like a week. If it sells, sowee.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, didn't you get it yourself? Not yet?


 
   
  I have to pick it up from the post office tomorrow.


----------



## ilGaspa

mad lust envy said:


> ilGaspa: Sony MA900.
> 
> My recommendations:
> 
> ...


 

   
  Thank you MLE 
  I looked at the MA900 too.. the strange thing is that here in Europe these cost MORE than the X1.. and a lot more.. 
   
  The X1 is 199 euros, 265 dollars
  The MA900 is 255 euros, 350 dollars
   
  Given this thing I should go for the X1, what do you think?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I have to pick it up from the post office tomorrow.




Schweet. I expect good news. It's not the AKGs, but I find that you'll be very happy for it's price.


I wish I had an HD558 to compare. Both have a similar tonality IIRC, though the MA900 is more open, and fuller sounding.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd definitely send it to you. You'd more than likely would be first, considering you're next door almost.


 
   
  Thanks, it makes me feel like I starting to be part of the fam... lol
   
  I have something up my sleeve, still, and will be keeping you guys posted. I just have to find these suckers at a better price. They're not expensive, at all, just rare to find because the manufacturer hasn't really distributed this model in the US.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





ilgaspa said:


> Thank you MLE
> I looked at the MA900 too.. the strange thing is that here in Europe these cost MORE than the X1.. and a lot more..
> 
> The X1 is 199 euros, 265 dollars
> ...


 
   
  Where do you live? It's 159.95€ from Amazon.de


----------



## Change is Good

Well, back to my gaming session I go; I was taking a snack break and checked in on you guys while doing so.
   
  I'm almost done with this game and I must say this:
   
  Ellie is officially one of my favorite characters this generation... she is one bad a** 14 year old.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I wish I had an HD558 to compare. Both have a similar tonality IIRC, though the MA900 is more open, and fuller sounding.


 
   
  Katun has a nice review of it with a comparison to the HD598.  Maybe you can extrapolate how the 558 would sound...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just don't have much love for the 598. I thought it was dry, thin, too mid rich. I'm beginning to wonder if I had a dud, because I greatly prefer the 558 to it. The 558 is wonderfully warm, well balanced, and just a workhorse all rounder. Not as refined as the MA900, but it is enjoyable regardless. The MA900 further improves on what I like about the 558. I mean ALL of it.

The MA900... I REALLY believe in this headphone. I think soundstage nuts will LOVE them, because it doesn't compromise musicality and richness for thinness to add air.

The more I talk about them, the more I'm starting to think they're not going anywhere (as in I won't sell them).


----------



## ilGaspa

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Where do you live? It's 159.95€ from Amazon.de


 
   
  I live in Italy: 255 euros from Amazon.it.. O.o the reason it costs so much less in the .de site is out of my comprehension :|
  Anyway it seems to be one of that articles that amazon won't sell everywhere: I can add it to my cart etc but when going to buy it the familiar "some articles can't be sent to your country" warning appears -.- So I can't order from the .de site :|
   
  Thanks anyway


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Try Ebay. Some places sell worldwide. The MA-900 is too new and too niche to really have fakes floating around.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think *soundstage nuts *will LOVE them, because it doesn't compromise musicality and richness for thinness to add air.


 
   
  We're not NUTS!!   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  Can't wait to hear them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is something special about it's imaging. I may be selling it short giving it a 9 for competitive. Might just be a 9.5. If it weren't so wonderfully balanced and they focuses on treble, it'd be a perfect 10 for competitive use. But I'm glad it's not. I prefer it's musicality over the dryness and detail whoring headphones like the old K701.


Chico, I specifically would like a comparison to the Q701. It's been awhile, but I think it's a valid comparison. I think the Annie might be too full bodied and warm to compare, though it's also worth mentioning.

Also, let's just say that I haven't missed the X1 since using the MA900.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How is the bass extension and detail?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, well, the sub bass rolls off a bit earlier than the X1. So the MA900 basically starts at the mid bass, but transitions into the mids well. The mid balance is one of the best I've heard. If the soundstage wasn't as big as it was, I'd say the MA900 would probably mimic the HD650 in mid bass to mids transitioning...

The bass isn't bloated or overly emphasized. It's really well balanced and in line with the mids, moreso than the X1.

The speed/decay I'd say is about medium. Not as fast and well textured as the Q701, but faster than the HD650.


----------



## ilGaspa

If I may ask one last question before deciding... o How's the bass on the MA900 compared to the DT990?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990 is very bass heavy. The MA900 is well balanced. I'd say it's more fair to compare the bass to the 880. What you lose in bass, you gain in much better mids, and way less treble fatigue.

The MA900 is still a very fun headphone. It also responds well to bass boosting. It sounded like magic with the E12's bass boost.

I MADE MYSELF TURN THE BASS BOOST OFF. I thought the MA900 with the E12's bass boost was better to me than X1's bass at default.

I frown at bass boosting because it spoils what i expect out of a headphone when using them from other amps that don't have bass boosts. So instead, I let myself adjust to a headphone's own sound signature without a bass boost. I'm quite happy with the MA900's bass. There are times I feel the X1 has just a bit too much bass for some music. The MA900 has the right amount of bass for basically all purposes. Never too little, never too much.

Of course, I wish it had better sub bass (also wish the same out of the 990, X1, and others), but sub bass isn't a thing open dynamics can truly achieve.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Stax are ultraexpensive in Germany, they are the most interesting headphones I would try for gaming. I'll pass on the T1, I don't think it'll be that much better than a T90. What's left? 
   
  Of course I have to evaluate the Fostex more now that we have much less heat (I avoided headphones for several weeks).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just remember that Goldenears graphs a bit different from Headroom and Innerfidelity. Even so, you can still see how linear the MA900 is in comparison to the also quite impressive X1. You can also see how the sub bass rolls off a bit faster on the MA900.


MA900


X1



990 Pro (a bit older graph)


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE's possible next project: http://www.thesubpac.com/


----------



## theOmni

****, lol I bought.the q701 two days ago. should I have gone the ma900??


also, I have the ultrasone pro 750 and I'm really curious to see where it fits on this list. would I be able to loan it to you, MLE, for a week some time in mid October? how does this usually work? I can pay for shippiing one way, but if you prefer I can do it both ways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can send it to me, and I'd send it back. Hit me up via pm whenever you want.

If you dont have a good amp for the Q701, the MA900 will be better suited. The MA900 isnt as clear or resolving as the Q701, but its more fun on the low end. Mids are equally good, and I prefer the less fatiguing upper mids on the MA900. Both have excellent treble balance.

Overall, I think the Q701 is a better technical headphone, able to scale better. The MA900 is just really solid for it's price.


----------



## theOmni

I just ordered the Fiio E11 yesterday. Do you think that will be sufficient? I can't spend too much money right now but I will have to make due with that for another year or so.
   
  Also, regarding send yout he 750 Pro, I'll have to ask you again sometime in mid october. There's too much moving around due to school/work so either I'm not in one place for too long or I don't get enough time in the day. Sometime after the first week of october it should calm down a bit more.


----------



## novadragon849

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nah, it's cool. The DT990 couldn't compare to the AD700 or K701, but it did gaming well enough for me to not NEED the extreme edge the AD700 and K701 gave me.
> 
> I case of the M50.... it just doesn't do it for me. I tried it again 2 days ago with CoD4 (which to me has the best audio for the CoD games in terms of clarity and accuracy), and I just didn't find anything good about them...for gaming at least.


 
  Hi Mad Lust Envy
   
  I want to get a Astro Mixamp 2013 paired up with the Denon AH-D600.
   
  I was wondering do you feel that the D600's are any good? I was going to go for the HD598's but people said the bass on the D600 will make gaming a lot more fun as the 598 isn't very bass orientated.
   
  What is your take on the D600 for gaming? Are they confortable and do they give good gaming experiences?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've briefly demoed them at Best Buy, and I felt it to be very v shaped. Lots of bass and treble, recessed mids. I didn't hate them, but they're not as good as the old Denons. They honestly sound like something Beats would make. Not sure they'll be well suited for gaming.


----------



## davidsh

Can only agree with envy on that one..


----------



## novadragon849

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've briefly demoed them at Best Buy, and I felt it to be very v shaped. Lots of bass and treble, recessed mids. I didn't hate them, but they're not as good as the old Denons. They honestly sound like something Beats would make. Not sure they'll be well suited for gaming.


 
   
  Thanks for this! I decided finally and I'm going for the Philips Fidelio (only because you make them sound so good!) and there is a deal locally for them right now.
   
  Just a quick question though, how come when I search online for the fidelio x1 they seem to have two models or something? One of them is the fidelio x1/00 and the other is fidelio x1/28 what is the difference and which one do I want?
   
  Also I'm kinda worried about one of the main issues you stated and that is replacing the ear pads. How long do they generally last if I use them with care? What are you guys going to do when it comes to replacing them as I looked around the forum and people said changing them causes irreversible damage which is quite worrying and slightly off putting..
   
  Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The MA900... I REALLY believe in this headphone. I think soundstage nuts will LOVE them, because it doesn't compromise musicality and richness for thinness to add air.



XD



mad lust envy said:


> The 990 is very bass heavy. The MA900 is well balanced. I'd say it's more fair to compare the bass to the 880. What you lose in bass, you gain in much better mids, and way less treble fatigue.
> 
> The MA900 is still a very fun headphone. It also responds well to bass boosting. It sounded like magic with the E12's bass boost.
> 
> ...




Well. The more you talk about this, the more you tickle my fancy. Guess I'll have to try it with my E12's sub-bass boost, and compare to my Q701 

Honestly, The Q701 is a gorgeous headphone. I love it and agree from experience that it scales well with upgrades to the rest of your setup, and I am quite satisfied in all areas between them, my M-100, and my IEMs. Now, but, however, graaaaugh! the highlighting points of this Sony tick pretty much all my boxes: yep, I worship at the altar of soundstage, lust for supreme marathon comfort, have feet that are motivated by midrange, pass rock & roll adolescence more every year so I want less and less fatiguing treble and bass (tho TBH always love near-neutral sound, my Ety's were my first hi-Fi headphones and remain closest to "monitor" flat rather than consumer-shaped), etc etc... And, I haven't said it outright before now, but I'm sure you've guessed: I have a certain "amour" for the value sweet spot, spending the least possible money for the most gain. The MA-900 doesn't cost much less than the price I paid for the Q701, but add to that difference how picky the Q701 can be (and trans-mutational it can be) about amping, especially to get closer to the apparent potential soundstage.

I picked up the Q701 because they have a reputation as the greatest soundstage (well, after the AD700 and K701, and HD800/Stax too I guess, but the Q has from all accounts more even frequency balance) and... well, they have a unique look, at the same time serious and retro-modern. A part of me wishes the Sony aesthetically looked a little more exotic than enlarged $30 headphones, visually say it broke the formula to be better. The same part of me that saw Art as a viable college alternative after Mechanical Engineering, and I ended up compromising and studying graphic design.

Anyway, left-brain/right-brain will continue to argue, but I can say I'm already in greater anticipation than I was about the HE-400 (for my tastes). I'll get the test playlist ready, and mentally prepare for a careful review. Again, flattered to be included.


----------



## ilGaspa

MLE, thank you for suggesting me the MA900  It seems the right choice for me: I'm now returning my DT990 and waiting refund to order the MA900 (if I'll be able to hold on so long ).
   
  I noticed one thing, just out of curiosity: these are open headphones and so sound leaking is expected but.. the MA900 isn't simply open, it has literally a HOLE O.O Am I wrong or these holes will make them leak pretty badly? I mean.. it's a canyon more than an hole.. for everyone else in the room this is going to act like a full fledge speaker O.o 
   
  Here's a screen of what I mean.. other headphones have a grill, or some kind of foam: this is fully open: how this affect the leakage? As I said I'm just curious 
   
http://katsumushi.c.blog.so-net.ne.jp/_images/blog/_08a/katsumushi/m_20120425-232718-0db7c.JPG?c=a1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It leaks a lot. But it's not like a speaker or anything. It will leak quite a bit more than the 990, but still in the same realm of loudness.

One example, you know how headphones obviously leak when you're just letting them play when not wearing them and holding the cups apart? Well, it sounds like that even if you are holding them close/sealed. That opening allows the sound to escape unimpeded. So if holding a headphone in the air is too loud for you, the MA900 will always play like that, even worn.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> No gold capacitor in the world could make up for the quality differences between the Z and the ZxR. Get the ZxR before pondering about gold caps.


 
  True, ZxR is better, but I didn't need the second recording card and it's more than twice what I paid.  They need to come out with a ZxR version without the daughter card in the $150 price range.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Was the gold-capacitor Z a short-lived run that is no longer available, or could I go to amazon now and get one like yours?


 
  They probably all ship with the gold caps now.  I bought the OEM version for $90 - has no casing, led's, or mic.


----------



## ethan7000

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I've briefly demoed them at Best Buy, and I felt it to be very v shaped. Lots of bass and treble, recessed mids. I didn't hate them, but they're not as good as the old Denons. They honestly sound like something Beats would make. Not sure they'll be well suited for gaming.


 
  Agreed, but I'll be more harsh - D600 is junk IMO


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think it's junk. It's a v-shaped headphone suited for those who like a really V-shaped sound. Bass and treble, lots of it. don't expect great vocals from the D600, ever. But for stuff you hear in the club, the D600 is fun. If you reduce the treble by a bit, it can be a pretty decent headphone.


----------



## ilGaspa

Mmm... Does the MA900 really behave like a 16ohm impedance volume gain wise?
  I just discovered that the Sound Blaster Z i use has a WRONG gain on the headphone circuit.. the top tier ZxR allows to choose between 32ohm and 600 ohm modes but the Z is fixed at 600.
  To put this clear: i need to keep the windows volume gain at 10% with my old apple earbuds... It's dangerous, should the volume revert to the default of 50% the earbuds would be fried.
  I prefer putting myself in a condition where even pushing the volume to max won't damage em.. the 250ohm DT990 were fine with a default 50% volume but a 16ohm Ma900 would die I fear :|


----------



## About7Narwhal

I took a hard look at the iFi iCan vs the M-Stage and decided I would give the iCan a shot. They both look like awesome products but the iCan seems like I can tweak it a tad bit more than the M-Stage. I will likely purchase the K702 65s tomorrow or the day after. Sadly, I won't get to try them until next month cause I am moving. I am very exited though. Thanks for the assistance.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll be getting the iCan as well for the mixamp chain.


----------



## ethan7000

Where are you two buying your iCan's?


----------



## About7Narwhal

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Where are you two buying your iCan's?


 
  It took me forever to find one but http://stereodesk.com/ has them for sale. Most of the other sites require you to call where Stereo Desk allows online purchasing. Seems like a start-up type company but they take PayPal which is good enough for me. Cost $259.01 ($259.00 for the device + $0.01 shipping). It does not appear that they give package tracking numbers though.They might once it has been shipped.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Where are you two buying your iCan's?


 
   
  I got mine here.
   
  http://www.essentialaudio.com/ifi.htm


----------



## About7Narwhal

If anyone is interested, I just got the AKG 702 65th Anniversary phones for $399.99 on RazorDog! Audio with the coupon code RAZORDOG100 (100 off purchases above 399).


----------



## funnyguy123

I was looking at the list, do the DT770s pros really have a bigger soundstage than open headphones like AD700, K701 and HD598? I was looking at some of the reviews of the DT770 pros and I didn't see anyone mention anything special about the soundstage.


----------



## Change is Good

Great to see the iCAN finally getting some love in here. Make sure you guys return with impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

funnyguy123 said:


> I was looking at the list, do the DT770s pros really have a bigger soundstage than open headphones like AD700, K701 and HD598? I was looking at some of the reviews of the DT770 pros and I didn't see anyone mention anything special about the soundstage.




Not at all. It has a large soundstage for a closed headphone. It still doesnt touch the soundstages of those you mentioned. However, it's imaging and positional cues are extraordinary, IIRC. Too bad there's too much bass bloat.


----------



## funnyguy123

What's the difference between soundstage and imaging and positional cues? I was thinking about getting the DT770s. I'm a casual player so I don't think the bass will annoy me too much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Soundstage is the virtual space all these cues inhabit. I say positional cues for gaming in virtual surround because it seems easier to understand in a gaming perspective (where enemies are located, etc), and imaging otherwise (I use the term imaging when talking about cues in a stereo feed, like when listening to music and picking out where instruments are located, etc). Sorry for the confusion. 

So for me:

Positional cues: sound cues in virtual surround, usually for gaming/movies 
Imaging - sound cues in stereo, usually in music
Soundstage: the space all sound inhabits in/around your head

That being said, the MA900 has some of the best stereo imaging I've ever heard. Some cues project pretty far out, which to me is rare, regardless of headphone. Stereo feeds tend to always sound in my head for the most part.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> Where are you two buying your iCan's?


 
  from the German partner listed on their website. WOD Audio


----------



## NamelessPFG

Other people around here seem to treat positional cues and imaging as the same thing. Guess we're left playing the semantics game again...
   
  Regardless, the point has been made that larger soundstages don't always equate to precise positional cues/imaging within that soundstage, for whatever strange reason that may be. Some people on these forums have been known to prefer headphone models with smaller soundstages than the usual open ones we discuss here because they find the imaging and positional cues to be superior.
   
  Since audio is mostly subjective, I don't think anyone's going to completely agree there. All we can do is say what works and doesn't work for us while figuring out what may suit a person whose tastes differ from our own.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, that's because imaging and positional cues ARE essentially the same thing. I'm mainly referring to how *I* use the terms. To me, it doesn't sound right calling instrument placement in music as positional cues. Positional cues sounds like something you expect out of video games or movies. Like "Hey, I totally heard that you were behind me because these headphones have a great ability to pinpoint positional cues". Imaging just doesn't fit for me. It's also a lot easier to understand for those who don't know the audio jargon. Positional audio cues is pretty self explanatory. Imaging isn't.

Imaging does fit for me when speaking of music and instrument placement.

Imaging also sounds more legitimate as you're listening to a headphone's cues at default in stereo, no extra processing. Positional cues will be altered by virtual surround, etc, so I can't consider a headphone's imaging to be gauged when using virtual surround. So for that, I make a clear distinction in that a headphone's positional cue accuracy is either good/bad when using virtual surround...

To make it easy for you guys, I NEVER say imaging unless I'm referring to music on this guide.


----------



## NamelessPFG

In that case, I'll adopt your practice just to minimize confusion around here.
   
  After all, a lot of people here test headphone imaging through music alone, talking about how much it resembles having the band on stage before them.
   
  I've always looked for positional cues in games first and foremost when evaluating that sort of thing. The question I always ask is something like "Can you shoot someone through a wall just by listening to his footsteps?", which most likely isn't what they're thinking at all.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Pricejapan has very interesting prices for STAX headphones but the amps do not mix well with EU voltages and when you consider an EU amp you're back with horrendous prices. 
   
  I forgot about the K701/K702/Annies/Q701 bass details, are they similar to the X1 as in one-noty?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the AKGs have very well textured, articulate, and faster bass.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I favored the T1 for my console setup but I remembered the AKGs well in soundstage and detail (just not in bass) and I don't want more high end phones. 
   
  I like the looks of the Annies very much but they are 750 Dollars here and the K712 is at 600.


----------



## benbenkr

I usually use this as a baseline benchmark to tell how well a headphone is in projecting positional audio accuracy and soundstage -
   





   
  If possible, I personally suggest downloading the mp3/wav files instead and play it through Foobar (or any player of your choice) with all DSPs disabled.
   
  Wav file: http://www18.zippyshare.com/v/42398242/file.html
  MP3 file: http://www18.zippyshare.com/v/13113568/file.html
   
  Now I know that games are always more dynamic and there's no real way to measure how good positional accuracy and soundstage is without actually going through a variety of games.
   
  Anwyays, enjoy and please close your eyes if you're trying it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So expensive. 

No more high end headphones? How about trading my X1 and MA900 for your TH-900?


----------



## chicolom

How about trading my X1 and Anniversaries for your HD800??


----------



## Fegefeuer

I meant additional. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The TH-900 is too beautiful, it sings to me. I can be astonished by the HD 800s imaging and technical capabilities but the TH-900 sings, has euphonics and it images excellent. The stage is smaller than the Sennheiser but I am very sure nobody would complain. If I had to choose one it would be the Fostex.
   
I'll be making a price suggestion for the K712 now. Trying to bring it down to 500. Daman, the Annies are 489 in your county. You always have the better prices.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

We can get it now for $400 through Razordog with a coupon.

The cheapest it was around $360 a few months ago and lasted for awhile, but they jumped back up.

The TH-900 is my dream headphone. No way I'd ever be able to afford it.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The TH-900 is too beautiful, it sings to me.   If I had to choose one it would be the Fostex.


 
   
  Have you compared the TH600 to the TH900?
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The TH-900 is my dream headphone. No way I'd ever be able to afford it.


 
   
  Never say never.  _Oh wait, you didn't..._


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's 1540 Dollars from Pricejapan
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Have you compared the TH600 to the TH900?
> 
> 
> Never say never.  _Oh wait, you didn't..._


 
   
  I actually wanted to get the TH-600 for my console setup but I also thought about getting something "different" and the only place I would have gotten them is pricejapan. German customs are zhe pain though, didn't want to risk.
   
  I think there are a few comparisons in the TH-600 thread. Also comparisons to the AH-D7000 which favor the TH-600.


----------



## SoFGR

I can personally vouch  for the CALs since  I recently  borrowed a very similar pair of headphones from a friend to try them out, the legendary denon DH-1001   
  Paired with an astro mixamp they provide very good surround for  movies,  I did the PS3 bitstream(mix) tweak that is mentionted on the first page and the end result is phenomenal ! 
   
  Watched "Perfume : the story of a murderer" recently and I reacted to positioning cues in a way that I haven't done so in years ! (regular freebie DVD with dolby 5.1 )
   
  I literally took them off  and thought of searching around the house, thinking that someone has just broke in  ! 
   
  Having used way more expensive closed pairs in the past like ultrasone pro 900, DT770/80 PRO and DT150 (250ohm), I find them to be excellent value for money,  they cost like  3 times less than the DT770s,  the rather flimsy build quality shows but that's about it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Have you compared the TH600 to the TH900?
> 
> 
> Never say never.  _Oh wait, you didn't..._:evil:




Christ, man. How's the MA900?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Got an offer for both the Annies and the K712. Same Price. Now time to choose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annies will be rarer and fetch a higher selling price. But then, you can basically turn any Q701 into an Annie. The K712 supposedly sounds a hint different.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Selling price is a very good argument actually. Q701 headband is horrible to me, like the K701. Chicolom's review is interesting. K712 as more intimate and smooth/warmer, Annies airier, less distant from the Q701.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Christ, man. How's the MA900?


 
   
  It's pretty cool.  Ridiculously light and the fit is very unique.  You'll never have your ears overheat with them. They're definitely good for the sub 200 price and have a nice balance with some emphasis on the mids. 
   
  I'm thinking I probably shouldn't keep them because there's too much overlap with the X1 and Anniversary, but we'll see.
   
  I wrote some notes on it and I"ll post them tomorrow.
   
   
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Chicolom's review is interesting. K712 as more intimate and smooth/warmer, Annies airier, less distant from the Q701.


 
   
  Correct, although the K712 is only more intimate when both headphones are using the same pads.  In stock form on both, the K712 is the same or slightly _less _intimate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> It's pretty cool.  Ridiculously light and the fit is very unique.  You'll never have your ears overheat with them. They're definitely good for the sub 200 price and have a nice balance with some emphasis on the mids.
> 
> I'm thinking I probably shouldn't keep them because there's too much overlap with the X1 and Anniversary, but we'll see.
> 
> I wrote some notes on it and I"ll post them tomorrow.




Told you. Sound/tone-wise, it's like a bridge between the Annies/K70x and X1. Really no place for it if you have those, but still, give them a week or so. Alone. I want you to truly come to understand how good they are.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> ...give them a week or so. Alone.


 
   
  Sounds kinda kinky.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But really. When I first got them, I was impressed, but not sold on them. A few days in... man, I really fell in love with them. 

Of course I domn't believe in that burn in, but I say it takes a few days for the ears to adjust to a headphone's signature. 

MA900 isn't going anywhere, unless I need the money. The X1 does warm up a bit and isn't as light, so even though they overlap, I see a place for both.

I'm gonna pick up the SLYR at my aunt's house and see if the pads fit the MA900. The SLYR's pads are HEAVENLY. We'll see.


----------



## chicolom

What made you fall in love with them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

At first, I didn't think they were that full sounding. I noticed... it wasn't the MA900. It was that the E12 was just too controlled, too fast. Once I paired it up with the E17, the sound filled out. There's plenty of body, bass, and richness now.

Tonally, it reminds me a lot of the Q701 without the upper mid glare, and even more body in the bass. It's so well balanced. It's quite organic sounding. I'm inclined to say this is really like a more open HD650, with more speed. I said the same about the Annie, but i dunno, the MA900 is even moreso.

To me, it's like a poor man's Annie/HD650/X1. Takes a bit from each. Annie's balance, HD650's warmth and mids, X1's bass...sorta.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's crazy. The MA900 might have a smaller range of bass than the X1, but I swear, the bass is almost as impressive and impactful as the X1 for most of the music I compare them with. TWO COMPLETELY OPEN HEADPHONES IN A ROW WITH BASS? Who'd have thunk it?


----------



## chicolom

Hmm..I thought the X1 had significantly more bass.


----------



## theOmni

Quote: 





benbenkr said:


> I usually use this as a baseline benchmark to tell how well a headphone is in projecting positional audio accuracy and soundstage -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  It would really help if there was some sort of a visual to tell where the speaker is relative to your position. I had a hard time telling if the guy was in front of me or behind me. Albeit that may be because of the headphones I was using.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It does have quite a bit more. I mean to say that with some music (like my bassy EDM, trap, dubstep), the MA900 is almost as impressive.

I mean, it's like I don't feel like I'm missing a lot of bass in music when I go from the x1 to the MA900. It doesn't sound bass light. It's well presented and impactful, even if it's not a bassy can in the way the X1 is.


[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mPtu09htRU[/VIDEO]

Like here. It sounds full and just perfectly integrated. I'm comparing the X1 to the MA900, and the bass on the MA900 is impressive even next to the X1. And the vocals are better (legit 320 mp3 audio, not youtube vid, though the bass is still prominent).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKC1U-6PPVo[/VIDEO]

The bass here is really good on the MA900 as well.

If a track is bassy, the MA900 won't disappoint.

Also, testing out some other tracks, the presentation is CLEARLY different, and IMHO completely to the MA900's favor. The openness is something the X1 can't touch. The MA900 just has some truly stellar soundstage/imaging capabilities.


----------



## kman1211

You got to love the MA900s bass, it really shows when the track calls for it. The MA900 has a nice bass and a fun sound, it's the first headphone that managed to pull me away from my beloved K240 MKII, I still listen to the K240 a good amount due to it's better dynamics and it's greater fun factor. I am getting a new amp here soon, I wonder how the MA900 will react to the warm tube sound, last time I owned a tube amp I noticed a drastic difference in the bass, mids, and the bigness of the sound on the headphones I owned.


----------



## ethan7000

How's the cup size on the MA900, like could you lie down comfortably in them?


----------



## NamelessPFG

IT HAS ARRIVED!
   

   
  There it is, the SRM-T1 in all its glory, next to my more recent Lambda set.
   
  Gotta admit, it's a lot lighter than I was expecting anything with vacuum tubes to be. The greater part of the shipping cost is likely the size of the box needed to fit everything with a decent amount of packing material for protection.
   
  It does work, as far as my first impressions can discern. There's nothing wrong with it that I can find, though some people would recommend a re-cap, changing out the tubes for certain other models, and re-biasing the whole thing.


----------



## Naingolann

I wonder if one can replace the pads on the MA900 with something else and how/if that would have any impact on the sound...


----------



## kman1211

I've tried the K240 pads on the MA900, it made them overly bassy and muddy sounding. But since the K240 pads are basically closed headphone pads, something like the DT 880/990 pads should yield better results.


----------



## dailysmoker




----------



## Dillweed

So, I got a Magni in to test with the TH600. Basically, it's very slightly clearer than the Lovely Cube I tried it with, but not a huge amount of difference. Comparing to the DT880, the DT880 sounds a little more processed/digital and hollow, but is a little more balanced. The TH600 does have a more spread out sound (more spacious, I guess), but outside of certain music genres, the bass currently seems a little too boomy and uncontrolled or imprecise. I don't know if that will change at all as the pads wear in a little more. It seems like, if I were to keep using the Titanium HD as my source, I'd basically be looking for something that's either in between these two headphones, or just an improvement of the DT880/neutral sound so that it's clearer/cleaner.
   
  I may need to look into changing the op amps on the sound card itself, or at least trying a different source, because for all I know the Titanium HD could be what I have an issue with and the headphones are fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I can get the Slyr pads to fit the MA900 and not alter the sound negatively....man, I could live with these alone. Not that I'd give up the X1 for them, but if they were my sole headphone, I'd be happy.


----------



## 3t3rnity

Hi, I need some advice here guys. With BF4 coming out soon I plan to get a new sound card and headphones.

 Sound card will probably be Creative Zxr. Can't decide on headphones though, right now I am looking at Sennheiser PC360,  AKG Q701 and Beyerdynamic DT990 (not sure about the treble though). They need to be open cans and doesn't matter if it's with a microphone or not. Any other suggestions perhaps?

 Headphones will be used mostly for gaming so I need them to be good at virtual surround positioning. Having said that, while details and clarity are important I would still prefer if the headphones were still fun and immersive rather than completely sterile. Hopefully I am not asking for too much 

 Any advice is welcome especially from someone with Zxr sound card.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sony MA900 or Fidelio X1. The MA900 is easier to drive, more balanced, and won't be affected by output impedance. The Fidelio X1 is more refined, and more bassy. Both are open, and both are great for all around gaming.

The MA900 isn't reviewed yet. But expect really good scores all around. And they're under $200.

With the MA900 around, you can forget about the PC360, HD558/598. The MA900 is superior to them.


----------



## 3t3rnity

Yes, Fidelio X1 seemed like a good choice until I learned you can't change the pads. Can you change the pads on MA900? I will wait for that review 
   
   
  Is anyone here using q701 for BF3 at the moment? Would you say they are too detailed to still be fun and immersive? Maybe fatiguing for longer sessions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the pads can be removed. Seriously, for gaming purposes I'd choose the MA900 over the Q701. Super light and comfy, well balanced and even more fun. Not picky like the Q701 to drive, and less fatiguing in the upper mids.


----------



## About7Narwhal

Before coming here and talking with you guys I have only had basic headphones (Turtle Beach X-Ray, Turtle Beach PX5, Razer Chimaera) that did not require an amp or a mixer because they came with the set. Now that I have (or will have, soon) my new gear, I have a question.
   
  This may be a stupid question, but I would rather sound stupid than blow a new pair of $400.00 phones: What is the proper order for connecting and disconnecting my phones from my amp? Do I need to power the amp off prior to adding or removing? Should I leave the phones plugged in or should I unplug them when not in use? Any general information would be great. Thanks.


----------



## davidsh

If you really want to be careful, you should just turn the volume to zero before inserting/powering off/removing/etc. Not everyone do it, but in some cases it can save the headphone for example with tube amps messing up etc.


----------



## theOmni

Alright, so my Q701 came in yesterday and I tried some BF3 and listend to some Massive Attack. Mind you, this is just on my laptop. My high end desktop with a soundcard is not in yet. I have an E11 amp on the way that was supposed to be delivered yesterday, but the stupid post office is derping around too much. Anyways, I tried it and HOLY CRAP!!! WHAT A FRIGGEN DIFFERENCE!! Even while its setup with my crappy laptop, the sound had so much clarity to it. I can tell what's left and right and even what's behind me. And listening to Teardrop by Massive Attack, the vocals are just so pronounced. Although I used to use my Ultrasone 750 Pros for the past few months, I have a feeling that the q701 will easily replace them. To be fair though, I haven't listened to the Ultrasones amped, and I hear that makes a big difference. I think I might just use the Ultrasones for rock music and movies, while the q701s can handle gaming, and orchestral music. 
   
  My only concern with these headphones is that in some songs, I can hear some crackling and popping in the left ear. I'm not sure if that's because of the source (it was from my phone) or because of the song file itself. 
   
  But thank you MLE and everyone on this thread!!


----------



## cbiscuit90

Mad Lust Envy,
   
  Was directed here from another head-fier... I'm new here. Great guide by the way, I went with the DT990s.
   
  I have a question, and it's probably really simple--If I use Dolby Headphone with a Xonar DX, would a Schiit Magni amplifier limit the sound to stereo (two channels)? To put it differently, the Schiit Magni won't alter the sound output from the DX except to increase the volume, correct?
   
  Thanks!


----------



## ethan7000

The latter, it would just increase volume


----------



## Evshrug

theomni said:


> Alright, so my Q701 came in yesterday and I tried some BF3 and listend to some Massive Attack.
> 
> My only concern with these headphones is that in some songs, I can hear some crackling and popping in the left ear. I'm not sure if that's because of the source (it was from my phone) or because of the song file itself.
> 
> But thank you MLE and everyone on this thread!!




Heliogoland, or something more classic like Mezzanine or Blue lines? I love Massive Attack, some say Mezzanine wasn't mastered well (blue lines was recently re-mastered, hoping Mezzanine will get the same treatment, I'd buy the album for the fourth time ) but it does have some nice bass rumble, and in Angel with the Q701 you really cut away all the one-notey bass into something more "live," it's been one of my test songs for years. And yes, they are amazing with gaming.

The crackling may be due to amping problems, but pay attention to what songs it happens with, and if it still happens after your E11 arrives it may be prudent to seek service. Check for hairs on the driver too.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Sony MA900 or Fidelio X1. The MA900 is easier to drive, more balanced, and won't be affected by output impedance. The Fidelio X1 is more refined, and more bassy. Both are open, and both are great for all around gaming.
> 
> With the MA900 around, you can forget about the PC360, HD558/598. The MA900 is superior to them.


 
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Seriously, for gaming purposes I'd choose the MA900 over the Q701. Super light and comfy, well balanced and even more fun. Not picky like the Q701 to drive, and less fatiguing in the upper mids.


 
   
   
  While I like the MA900 I'm not quite as enamored with it as you are yet.
   
  I think the MA900's soundstage does sound more out-of-head than most headphones, but at the same time the imaging isn't quite as sharp as either AKG or the X1.  I think the MA900 has a better signature than the HD5xx/PC360, but I think the latter still has better imaging.


----------



## Evshrug

I do agree that the Q701 doesn't work "well" powered just by an iPod or something, in fact some songs sound fatiguing if the AKG is underamped, but it scales up well with a $100-$200 amp. I think a good amp is appropriate for this class of headphone. When it IS amped properly and fed quality music, it sounds VERY clear but also fun in the sense that some notes (and especially openings or endings to songs) send shivers up my spine/head. I'll give the Sony's a good listen, but no rush sending them to me because I'm getting over the tail end of a cold.

Chico, I dunno if I'm next or whatever, but definitely take the week Mad suggested.


----------



## PurpleNinjaX2

So I am brand new to this whole PC headset thing, and I am in need of some help.  I am going to be doing gaming, skyping, and watching youtube videos.  I want to know if i should go with the ad700 and a zalman mic or save up an extra 50 dollars and get a pc360?  If anyone could help me out that would be great!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I do agree that the Q701 doesn't work "well" powered just by an iPod or something, in fact some songs sound fatiguing if the AKG is underamped, but it scales up well with a $100-$200 amp. I think a good amp is appropriate for this class of headphone. When it IS amped properly and fed quality music, it sounds VERY clear but also fun in the sense that some notes (and especially openings or endings to songs) send shivers up my spine/head. I'll give the Sony's a good listen, but no rush sending them to me because I'm getting over the tail end of a cold.
> 
> Chico, I dunno if I'm next or whatever, but definitely take the week Mad suggested.




Lol, I haven't sent them to anyone yet. Chico bought it himself.

Chico, that's because you're too used to your AKGs. Like I said, they're not better than the AKGs. They're a cheaper, less amp dependent, and more fun headphone (Q701, not Annie). If you have a Q70x or Annie, no real reason to go with the MA900. However, if you dont wanna rely on strong amping, and source matching, the MA900 is a safer choice and to me sounds nearly as good.

If you're referring to imaging/stereo, I can't agree. The MA900 to me is god tier for imaging in music. The AKGs have always been known to be mostly extreme left/right proficient, but a bit diffused in between. Now, I don't really pay that much attention to soundstage and imaging in music. A pair of closed headphones with a good balance is just fine for me. I only truly play attention to those things for virtual surround gaming. Not even the AKGs stuck oht for me in music for imaging or otherwise.

That being said, the MA900 is one of the first headphones to make me pay attention to such cues in music. It really stuck out.



Again, if you're gonna drive them properly, the Q70x and Annie are better than the MA900. If you're looking for cheaper, all purpose, not finicky, super light, less fatiguing in the upper mids and even more comfy, as well as cheap, the MA900 is the best recommendation I can make.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I haven't sent them to anyone yet. Chico bought it himself.



Ok, well... XD
But anyway, IF you are hoping to get some of our opinions, I need a bit of time before I put my best ear forward, so to say.

Would you give me your opinion on my M-100, if I leant it to you? I like it for a lot of the same reasons you stated about the MA900, tho the soundstage is limited by being a closed headphone, it IS very good for closed and has pretty great imaging, easy to drive tho it scales a bit, non-fatiguing sound with fun, etc. Since it's closed and pleather, it's really best kept to 1 hour sessions before giving your head a break, but what it gains is in portability and social acceptance. The Matte Black isn't aesthetically loud, but build materials and design oozes high quality, and as my coworkers (manager) recently said as they were teasing me about my Q701 [It looks like a helmet! Like a pilot's helmet!], "Why buy headphones that aren't portable?" We like audio enough to understand the high-value proposition of big headphones over big speakers, but still, portability IS a strong benefit.



mad lust envy said:


> Chico, that's because you're too used to your AKGs. Like I said, they're not better than the AKGs. They're a cheaper, less amp dependent, and more fun headphone (Q701, not Annie). If you have a Q70x or Annie, no real reason to go with the MA900. However, if you dont wanna rely on strong amping, and source matching, the MA900 is a safer choice and to me sounds nearly as good.
> 
> If you're referring to imaging/stereo, I can't agree. The MA900 to me is god tier for imaging in music. The AKGs have always been known to be mostly extreme left/right proficient, but a bit diffused in between. Now, I don't really pay that much attention to soundstage and imaging in music. A pair of closed headphones with a good balance is just fine for me. I only truly play attention to those things for virtual surround gaming. Not even the AKGs stuck oht for me in music for imaging or otherwise.
> 
> ...




My Etymotic IEMs are at the top of my god-tier for imaging. Not the biggest (exaggerated?) soundstage, but imaging is so good it often transcends the valley of disbelief. They feel weird till you find your right eartips, then they disappear, which can be unnerving because you can forget that the only sounds you can hear come from the canalphones and your sense of touch/jaw vibrations/air on the hairs of your body. And you'd better believe binaural sounds incredibly "live" and accurate. The only thing (besides ear wax cleaning) is that they are impractical if you DO want to hear the real world. There's an app for that, lol.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, that's because you're too used to your AKGs. Like I said, they're not better than the AKGs. They're a cheaper, less amp dependent, and more fun headphone (Q701, not Annie). If you have a Q70x or Annie, no real reason to go with the MA900.
> 
> If you're referring to imaging/stereo, I can't agree. The MA900 to me is god tier for imaging in music. The AKGs have always been known to be mostly extreme left/right proficient, but a bit diffused in between. Now, I don't really pay that much attention to soundstage and imaging in music. A pair of closed headphones with a good balance is just fine for me. I only truly play attention to those things for virtual surround gaming. Not even the AKGs stuck oht for me in music for imaging or otherwise.
> 
> ...


 
   

 Don't get me wrong -  I'm not saying the MA900 are bad or anything, I'm just saying they're not as good as the Anniversaries or X1.  I'm just saying people who were previously looking at getting the Anniversaries, K712, X1, etc. shouldn't instead opt grab the MA900 because they read FOTM things about it and begin to think it's a better headphone.

 The MA900 probably don't have too much competition in their sub 200 bracket though.  Going off memory the MA900 has a better sig than the Sennheisers HD5xx, but I remember the Sennheisers as having a little sharper imaging.  There's the AD700 but the signature is way too thin IMO.  What else am I forgetting in that price bracket?  DT990 Pro, but I've never heard it.

 The MA900s imaging is very good - I think it's better than the HE400, DT990, things like that.   For me though, it's still not quite as sharp as the AKGs and X1. There's some slight little inconsistency/disconnectedeness between the left and right channel that makes it a little bit harder to pinpoint sounds than with the others.  The imaging is just slightly more coherent and connected with the others for some reason. 
   
  As far as stereo music, I don't think I'm hearing whatever your hearing with the MA900's imaging :\

 Regardless, I still plan to sell them in a week or so because I know I won't ever reach for them when I've got the AKGs and X1 readily available.  I'll try and do a little mini-review before they go though.


----------



## chicolom

I keep forgetting that when double amping the mixamp or DSS that the M-stage somehow boosts the soundstage to be several feet larger than the iCan.  It's pretty cool and it's pretty easy to hear.  It's one of the main reasons I haven't sold the M-stage after getting the iCan.  It makes me wonder if a more expensive amp would further boost it....
   
  For some reason the soundstage between the two isn't as different when listening to music though.
   
  Too bad I can't combine the M-stage's amp section with the iCan's switches.  That would be one sweet amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Don't get me wrong -  I'm not saying the MA900 are bad or anything, I'm just saying they're not as good as the Anniversaries or X1.  I'm just saying people who were previously looking at getting the Anniversaries, K712, X1, etc. shouldn't instead opt grab the MA900




I agree with you. If you can afford the Annie, it's easily does what I like about the MA900 even better except comfort. But the Annie is more than 2x the price, more picky about amping, and heats up a lot more on the ears.

As for the X1, there are people who don't want that much bass, or dont wanna deal with the eventual issue of the pads needing to be replaced. For these people, the MA900 is as good as it gets in the price range. 


This is why I'm referring them to the MA900. If you cant afford those two, or dont wanna deal with the bass/pads, the MA900 is the best alternative I can think of. The MA900 is fantastic for it's price. I'm giving it more head time than the X1, and I'm not mad about it. It's simply a great headphone with very little issues to deal with. You cant ask for much more. Well balanced, cheap, ultra comfy and light (more comfy than the X1 and Annies), easy to drive (and not picky), big soundstage. 

Of course, there is zero sense on getting it if you can get the Annies or X1 without worrying about their caveats. Those two are better overall. Not denying that. But thats like complaining about me recommending the Q701 when you have the HD800. Of course it's not gonna match up. I have not once stated the MA900 is better than the X1 or Annie. But it does certain things better, like being less fatiguing than both.

This eclipses FOTM status. Just like the CAL, KSC35/75. It stands uncontested in it's price range, and are many benefits to it.


----------



## crazyg0od33

So my Beyerdynamic cops came in and I love them! They're very comfortable but I still need to get used to them. I tested them out with splinter cell blacklist and they were great (to me lol). I did however realize halfway through that I forget to change the speaker setup and that's why there was no center channel haha. I'll test more later


----------



## theOmni

Quote: 





crazyg0od33 said:


> So my Beyerdynamic cops came in and I love them! They're very comfortable but I still need to get used to them. I tested them out with splinter cell blacklist and they were great (to me lol). I did however realize halfway through that I forget to change the speaker setup and that's why there was no center channel haha. I'll test more later


 
   
  Is this on PC? what soundcard are you using?


----------



## AxelCloris

I picked up a pair of Pioneer SE-A1000 at Best Buy the other day for $35 + tax. So far I'm enjoying the sound these can put out. Does anyone have experience gaming with them? I'm reading on Head-Fi that they were a flagship a couple years ago that retailed for $200. Don't see them being worth $200 but so far they're excellent for sub $40. I have them at work right now, so no gaming on them yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The main thing that intrigues on those Pioneers is that their maximum input power is 1.5watts. Jesus, that is like planar magnetic power handling capabilities. So they can handle some really powerful amps and probably scale well.


----------



## AxelCloris

Unfortunately as far as amps go, I use a cheap cmoy amp at work and my T1 at home. But even off the cmoy they sound nice. Can't do any critical listening at work, but I'm impressed so far. And you're currently running off the E12, correct? I'd be interested to hear how these sound off one of the stronger amps out there. Heck, maybe I can ship them up to Chico for a bit and see how they sound off the 1.5W M-stage. At least, I think the Matrix does 1.5W; feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.


----------



## crazyg0od33

Quote: 





theomni said:


> Is this on PC? what soundcard are you using?


 
  yeah.  It's an x-fi fatality (dont hurt me  ) but I was having driver issues so I installed aftermarket drivers, and they remove headphone mode.  I just forgot to change the settings in splinter cell


----------



## Skipshrike

Is there any benefit to using an e17 in line with the astro mixamp with the x1?
   
  I was considering the e17 to help with the auido out of my iPad/iPhone or laptop. I know that don't really need to portable amp ability since I am using the x1 as my headphone set so I am still on the fence about purchasing the e17. I'm just not sure if the DAC in the e17 would help with listening to music out of my portable devices.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The SONY Pulse Elite Headset is getting very favorable user reviews. I wonder how they fare in their price range or vs. PC360.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Open vs closed. Pleather vs velour. Probably balanced vs bassy, large soundstage vs small soundstage.

I'm just not a fan of closed headsets, at least in terms of comparisons to open ones.

I'm sure I'd prefer the Pulse for music though.

I'd love to listen to them though. It has it's own form of virtual surround. I wonder how it fares vs DH and THX TS.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That Pulse tech supposedly gives tacticle bass feedback, some form of vibration/rumble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I saw uravgconsumer's review on them, and he says it's the best bass he's ever heard. Though he is a basshead...

Still, I've always been interested in hearing them, but I just don't buy pleather padded headphones.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> That Pulse tech supposedly gives* tacticle bass feedback, some form of vibration...*


 
   
  The X1s can do that too


----------



## bombadilio

Hey guys I have been reading this site for awhile. My problem is (good one) is I only wonder dre beats they kill my ears since I wear glasses during gaming. So I need better more comfortable headphones with better sound. I am open to buying a sound card like the creative Xr/zxr.

I know there are no good wireless or blue tooth my budget is under 500$. So far I read up on the
1. Berry mmx300 nice nice has a mic
2 What about the maddoggs by mr. Speakers?
http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?
main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=13
https://www.mrspeakers.com/
Reviews:
https://www.mrspeakers.com/Mrspeakers-Mad-Dog-
Headphone-in-Media

3.Sony Madrid 1RNC orthe Bose quiet comfort15.

4. Sennheiser 363 se or 350

5. Steelseries

6. astro a50
People were mentioning amps if I got that crearive card would that suffice?

Guess wireless or bluetooth does not work. Was really looking forward to sitting far away from the computer using them instead of speakers for movies.

On the other hand someone mentioned the ue9000 Logitech.

I am mainly using this for gaming and then movies sometimes music. I would like to buy something today, and prefer to not buy a lot of external hardware 

Thanks


----------



## timnswede

Just got my Philips Fidelio X1 and sound card hooked up and all I can say is... woah. Coming from owning cheap gaming headsets to this is just incredible. So glad I found this thread and decided to get the X1s.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





bombadilio said:


> Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  The skullcandy plyr?
   
  Else, fidelio x1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd prefer the Plyr over the A50, anyday of the week. The Slyr is better than both for me though.


----------



## bombadilio

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I'd prefer the Plyr over the A50, anyday of the week. The Slyr is better than both for me though.


 
  I already have a microphone, what would be the best set without a microphone then? I got the 3$ one.
   
  Ok I purchased the Creative Zxr. I won't use the daughterboard as it won't fit in my case but I like the idea of the larger gold plated 1/4" headphone / mic connectors. Now I just need a headset that can take advantage of it.


----------



## Evshrug

Bombadillio,
The Creative ZxR has a decent amp inside.
The beyer you mentioned is nice, there is/was a regular to this thread who has consistently been quite happy with his MMX 300. You don't necessarily need a mic built-in though, often you can hook up a separate mic and save money overall compared to an integrated headset.
I personally enjoy my AKG Q701, and as you can see there are other choices getting strong votes here.

Last thing to mention, my Q701 comes with two cables, the second is easily long enough to reach from tv to couch, and still have some slack bundled in a zip-tie. Wired doesnt have the same bandwidth and cheap-digital-conversion problems of wireless/Bluetooth headsets, I'd always pick wired first as long as a cable won't ruin your life.


----------



## bombadilio

Perfect,
   
  So I got the Creative ZxR for the 600ohm amp and 1/4" connectors for a high end headset. 
   
  I think I have broken it down to these choices if you guys could direct me as to what would connect best, also if I want to use the headphones when I am traveling and not on my computer (Kindle music, phone, laptop, can you direct me to a potential travel mini amp *only if I need it*?
   
*- K702 anniversary* (I loved the review of the K701 and saw he said get the Q701 as its better all around. However, the K702 Anniversary looks like the way to go no?
   
  -* K712 Pro * This is $499 is there a difference between thsi and the K702 anniversary?
   
- *Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm*
   
  - *Philips Fidelio X1*
   
  - *Mr Speakers Alpha Dog* $599 or Mad Dog $399.
   
  - SennHeiser Binaural or HD650
   
*UltraSone Pro 900 *Looking online it shows as $600+ http://www.amazon.com/Ultrasone-PRO-BALANCED-Foldable-Headphones/dp/B003XU3R0Y/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1377547454&sr=1-6
   
It's weird though since it seems the 
*X1 is only $300, *
*Beyer DT990 is $367,  *
*AKG 702 $429 and the *
*K712 Pro is $499*
   
  The Philips Fedlio X1 looks cheaper than all the versions, would I need a small amp when I am using them with an iphone or music on my kindle?
   
  Filio E17 USB DAC headphone amplifier http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_z


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





bombadilio said:


> Perfect,
> 
> So I got the Creative ZxR for the 600ohm amp and 1/4" connectors for a high end headset. Do you feel the Q701 is better than the higher end models? What about the Berry, Bose, or SennHeiser models?


 
  Bose = Overpriced
   
  If you don't need mic, you can do better than beyerdynamic and sennheiser, but if you need a mic both are viable options.


----------



## mpawluk91

chicolom said:


> The X1s can do that too


No not like the pulse elite, it has something inside the earcups that acts like a bass shaker. 

Very fun headphone


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mpawluk91 said:


> No not like the pulse elite, it has something inside the earcups that acts like a bass shaker.
> 
> Very fun headphone


 
   
  It was an inside joke.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   The X1 sometimes makes the cloth inside vibrate and tickle your ears.


----------



## ethan7000

chicolom, is that you in your avatar? Fun pic


----------



## Evshrug

bombadilio said:


> Perfect,
> 
> So I got the Creative ZxR for the 600ohm amp and 1/4" connectors for a high end headset.
> 
> ...




From the informal reports I've read (pretty lengthy testing by Chico, and I think others), the Annie's and Q701 are basically same-sounding if you use the same pads, tho of course the Annie's still look different and don't have headband bumps. If you're in America, you can get the Q's new at pretty close to $230-250, used it can be a great bargain. I got mine like-new for $200, tho I feel I got pretty lucky 

Hard to go wrong compared to what you have now though... unless you're expecting to wear these while walking down the street, they're all a bit big for that, and they are transportable but not particularly compact for packing. Just setting expectations.


----------



## bombadilio

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> From the informal reports I've read (pretty lengthy testing by Chico, and I think others), the Annie's and Q701 are basically same-sounding if you use the same pads, tho of course the Annie's still look different and don't have headband bumps. If you're in America, you can get the Q's new at pretty close to $230-250, used it can be a great bargain. I got mine like-new for $200, tho I feel I got pretty lucky
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks guys!!
   
  I took your advice and called the owner of Razordogaudio.com he has a $100 discount on orders over $250. He also was amazing and helped me make my ridiculously long decision
   
  On our talk my final debate discounting the Beyerdynamic D 990 600ohm were::
   
  AKG 712 PRO
  AKG 702 65th Anniversary edition
  Beyerdynamic T-90
   
  I decided to go with the AKG K702 Anniversary since he said it had a higher resale value, performs the same as the AKG K712 PRO. Plus, I like the color blue.
   
  I was going to spend the extra $150 for the T-90 but due to portability I do not want to be stuck without the ability to use these when I travel. I can still purchase another pair to compare. So let me know if you guys had any more input / ideas.
   
  I was tempted to get the Skullcandy SLYR or PYR, Beyerdynamic MMX300 or PC-360 but it was really hard to decide as from reading what everyone said, I was better off getting a non microphone headset like I chose. Anyone have any other input?


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





ethan7000 said:


> chicolom, is that you in your avatar? Fun pic


 
   
  Not quite.  It's photoshopped from a pic here: http://ofcblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/aural-style-headphones-looking-good.html


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





bombadilio said:


> I decided to go with the AKG K702 Anniversary since he said it had a higher resale value, performs the same as the AKG K712 PRO. Plus, I like the color blue.


 
   
   
  The K712 Pro and Anniversary are a little different, but either will work great for gaming.


----------



## bombadilio

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Not quite.  It's photoshopped from a pic here: http://ofcblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/aural-style-headphones-looking-good.html


 
  Thats a great photo, I went in for the annies.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I got the Annies as well for my Mixamp setup (last Friday), they haven't arrived yet. I totally forgot how long these damn AKG cables are. Need to think about getting something along 4-5 feet. I guess the connector is the same as the K702.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It is.


So I borrowed the Slyr I gave to my aunt. Yeah, those pads don't have a chance in hell of fitting the MA900. So sad. 

The MA900 is just too big... way too big for these pads.

At least I got to hear the Slyr again. Still love them.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Any idea for a cable? Want to avoid something custom that takes many weeks and costs 100+. Somebody recommended a spiral cable but to me they are the worst kind of cable you could get.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Any idea for a cable? Want to avoid something custom that takes many weeks and costs 100+. Somebody recommended a spiral cable but to me they are the worst kind of cable you could get.


 
   
  AKG sells a coiled cable through their parts dept.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Quote: 





change is good said:


> AKG sells a coiled cable through their parts dept.


 
   
  Yeah, that's what I meant with spiral.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, that's what I meant with spiral.


 
   
  Sorry, didn't pay full attention.
   
  Option2: I have two stock 10ft cables and had a female friend braid one of them to have a shorter one for my desk. You can just buy an extra cable and do the same if it works for you. I can post a pic later if you like.


----------



## bombadilio

Do I need a mixamp with the AKG Annie? the guy from the store said that I most likely would not need it due to my soundcard. I asked him about if I put it on with my kindle or other device and he said since its not a high ohm headphone I should be ok. Not sure how the miniamps work with headphones but I saw there was one for $125 or the astroamp about the same price.


----------



## chicolom

If your not playing on a CONSOLE, don't get a mixamp - get a soundcard.  You already have a soundcard though.
   
  The AKGs aren't particularly high ohm, but they're low sensitivity and aren't the easiest to drive.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> The SONY Pulse Elite Headset is getting very favorable user reviews. I wonder how they fare in their price range or vs. PC360.


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Open vs closed. Pleather vs velour. Probably balanced vs bassy, large soundstage vs small soundstage.
> 
> I'm just not a fan of closed headsets, at least in terms of comparisons to open ones.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





fegefeuer said:


> That Pulse tech supposedly gives tacticle bass feedback, some form of vibration/rumble.


 
   
   
  Sony sent me a review unit of the Pulse many months ago (late last year) before it was launched and to be quite honest,it's a mixed bag. Bad in wireless mode, but actually quite decent in wired mode and for $120... something like the CAL may be a better choice instead.
   
  The Pulse is rather similar to the CAL on all fronts including the soundstage and positional cues, except its bass doesn't extend quite as deep. I'll get to its gimmicky BassImpact in a bit, but with BI disabled the bass on the Pulse is a lot more shy that I'd expect from a closed can. It's not very bassy, in fact I needed to up the bass boost on my DSS through wired mode (another point I will get to later) to get it to sound warm enough.
   
  The reason for this is because of the offset Sony has done so that BassImpact doesn't distorts the Pulse when it is enabled. You can control how much BI you want on the headset itself, but here in lies the problem — the vibration motors gets so loud that you can actually HEAR it when it hits the low frequencies. Anything more than the 4th-5th notch on the BI control and it'll be so irritating that I see no reason for it.
   
  The idea of BI is that the motors will give a haptic feedback everytime a mid-bass frequency is hit, so just go imagine it rumbling like "grrrrr grrr groooo" when an explosion happens on screen. The vibrators are louder than the explosion itself. It's not the sort of subtle thumps you'll get from the X1 or any other bassy headphones.
   
  Then there's the battery, do a search on Google and see how many dead batteries has the Pulse faced over the last few months. It's ridiculous.
  My review unit got its battery dead within a month, it's non-user replaceable and the worse thing is? Sony couldn't even replace them because they had no stocks for it when I returned it to them. They had to send me a new unit instead.
   
  Then there's the issue with the Pulse in wireless mode, even at max volume everything sounded way too rolled off. Not enough volume basically, I don't know if Sony purposely limited the volume on the Pulse so that it can conserve as much battery as possible (of which lasts a miserable 4 1/2 hours in the first place) or what, but it's very undesireable to use in wireless mode.
   
  For the good news, the Pulse is at least a versatile headset. Because it can work in both wireless and wired mode, connecting the Pulse to an amp + DAC opens it up to a whole new level of sound quality that I wonder if I was still listening onto the same headset. With an amp, gone is the need to conserve battery (which I assume for the low volumes), blast the Pulse loud if you want and there's almost no distortion regardless of what you throw at it. Clean, smooth sound and with the bass boost on the DSS, it made the Pulse sounded like the CAL. Fun and warm, you can even set the BI to the 4th notch to get the subtle thumps and without actually hearing the motors rumbling.
   
  It's crazy how different the Pulse works both in wired and wireless mode to be honest. Even running the Pulse wired from its USB receiver without going through an amp or a DAC made it sound better than it was in wireless.
   
  The VSS on the Pulse is fairly "meh". There's no distinction in the rear cues, only a wide soundstage that envelopes the entire headset. Nothing spectacular. Dolby Headphones still does a better job IMO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The more I use the MA900, the more I'm seeing it as the best alternative to the K702 Annies if you can't afford them. Half the price too. The Annie has more balance and a broader range in the bass, but the MA900 has added mid bass, is faster, and the soundstage is larger than even the X1.

They're both warm and smooth (MA900/Annie), both fun and all purpose/all rounders, with both having stellars mids (seriously, the MA900 has fantastic mids), and both are very comfy. The MA900 is seriously the most comfortable full sized headphone I've owned aside the Steelseries Siberia V1, and makes even the X1 seem too hot on the ears and heavy.

Is it better than the Annie? No. But it holds up very well for half the price, and can be worn for longer periods, and isn't picky with amping.

For those who want the Annie but can't afford them, I couldn't recommend anything else more than the MA900. Not even the Q701 which while being a more refined/superior headphone, doesn't come close in comfort, is picky with amping, lacks some bass for true all purpose use, and has some fatiguing upper mids at times.

If you can afford the Annie, you know that's my favorite well balanced headphone. If you can't, try the MA900 if you feel the X1 might be too bassy or don't wanna deal with the non-replaceable pads issue.

It's to the point that I'm comparing the X1 and MA900 directly, and while I do prefer the X1 (I mean that is an ideal headphone sound-wise for my preference), I find myself reaching for the MA900 90% of the time due to it's lightweight, breathable comfort, great balance, and huge soundstage.

It's really hard for me to have more than one great home headphone, because I start ignoring the others.


Again, if you own the Annie/Q701, the MA900 is redundant. You do have your trade offs in the bass between the MA900 and Q701 (the MA900 is definitely more fun), and the Q701 is a more detailed headphone, while being a lot more demanding amp-wise. The Annie and MA900 probably cater to the same things, with the Annie being superior in basically all fronts except speed, though at double the cost.

If you own the X1, it does bass and clarity better, while the MA900 does mids better. Either way, it may also be redundant to own the MA900 as the X1 is more fun, and more detailed, though not as rich in the mids, and not as comfy.

So AGAIN, I'll say get the MA900 if you can't spring for the Annie or are just curious about a great under $200 headphone with no real downsides to it.


I think even if i owned the Annies, I'd still reach for the MA900 the vast majority of the time due to the added comfort. It's a damn good headphone to have.

I was going to sell it, but now... I can't see myself without it. if I were able to afford a D7000, i would prefer selling the X1. Seriously.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> They're both warm and smooth (MA900/Annie), both fun and all purpose/all rounders, with both having stellar mids (seriously, the MA900 has fantastic mids), and both are very comfy.


 
   
  Are you _trying_ to get me to spend even more money on headphones here? Seriously, it's you on one end with the MDR-MA900, and DefQon on the other end with the SR-Omega (which my wallet dearly hopes I never, ever encounter)...
   
  I still have no Q701 or K702 65th experience to draw from, but even pushing that aside, you make the MA900 sound like the perfect can to take with me to places I wouldn't dare risk my SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 combo (which is basically "anywhere outside of my house", but I may make special exceptions here and there).


----------



## chicolom

The MA900 has more mid bass than the Q701, but has less sub bass than the Q701.  The MA900s mid-bass is probably somewhere around the Anniversaries

 The MA900 has more pure mid quantity than Anniversary (and definitely the X1), but they're a less refined mids.  The Q701 is more refined and has better extension, but at the same time the mids are thinner and drier - so the MA900 is less fatiguing to listen to.  The MA900 has more body than the Q701 The MA900 sound slightly "n" shaped to me, as the bass and treble roll off some while the mids are pretty strong.  It usually sounds a bit too mid-range-y to me after listening to the Anniversaires with their fuller balance.  The MA900 sounds thinner and less grounded next to them. 

 Overall the X1 and Anniversary are still on another level as the MA900 just doesn't have the extension, the body, or the refinement that they have.  It doesn't sound like a $300+ headphone, but it's not meant to.  I wouldn't reach for it over the X1 or Anniversary, but I _would _reach for it over the Q701 for a lot of things.  And I would pick it over the DT990, and _probably _the HD5x8 (I'd have to hear the soundstage again to be sure).

 If I kept the MA900, it would function more like my KSC35s as a quick go-to headphone for normal listening.  I would still bust out the X1 or AKGs for serious music/gaming/movie listening.  So it's hard for me justify keeping them just for that type of use...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nameless, just hold out a bit, I'll send them to you soon enough.

They're definitely not gonna touch Stax, but for $180 and being an amp slut (as in it more than likely will sound good off any amp), I think the MA900 deserves some hype.

Chico, I dunno what you're plugging them into, but the MA900 has some very good mid bass here. Definitely not far off from the X1 to me, and you know I like my bass. The X1 does extend a bit lower and has a broder range (as well as the Annies), but for a lot of music, the focus on mid bass isn't lost on the MA-900 and is at LEAST on par with everything else in the sound spectrum (just as it's shown on the graphs). The mid bass is actually the most prominent part of the MA900's sound looking at this graph. I don't disagree, as it sounds plenty lively.

For reference again:





and the X1


That is not far off from how the X1's bass to mids are.

And that's how I'm hearing the mids to treble. Very linear, and non-fatiguing. Definitely less treble than the X1, but smooth and balanced to me.

But it also depends on your music. I listen to EDM, and the MA-900 has plenty of bass to me. Yes, the sub bass is definitely not a strength, but mid bass is great.

I'm consitantly comparing the two, and the bass is no slouch even next to the X1, when a track is bass heavy.

I'm not hearing an n shaped signature at all. I'm hearing relatively even response, with a lack of the lowest octaves. definitely, and undeniably one of the most well balanced headphones I have ever heard.


----------



## chicolom

I compared it to the Anniversaries and the bass is actually pretty similar, until you get to the sub bass.
   
  Last time I was comparing the MA900 to the X1, I always had to use the iCans bass boost to get it closer to the X1.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  I'm not gonna lie though, I'm not the best man at judging bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's really good bass, man. I mean I dunno what kind of music you listen to, but I listen to genres which rely on bass, and the MA900 does genres very well. You know I value my bass. I'm not saying the MA900 is a basshead can (the X1 is definitely more prominent), but like the Annie, the MA900's bass is well presented and full (other than sub bass). Sub bass isn't a strength on the X1 either (I believe the Annie has more IIRC, though the X1 has more mid bass than the Annie), so I don't find the MA900 to be that much different from the X1 in terms of bass, though the X1 definitely leads on emphasis.

The mids are MA900 all day, every day compared to the X1, and the X1 wins on sparkle vs both the MA900 and Annie, though it can also be more fatiguing than both. This is why I say the MA900 makes a great alternative to those who can't afford the Annie. It has similar strengths overall. The Annie is overall fuller sounding, while the MA900 is fuller and smoother than the X1 overall (other than the bass being fuller on the X1).


----------



## chicolom

Right on.

Sometimes i wish I could skip over the bass section a bit when I write a review because I'm usually not concerned with it enough to listen closely and extract the fine details.


----------



## chicolom

Man, my phone is weak at driving headphones. I can max out the volume and still not get the MA900 to where I normally listen.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's crazy. the MA900 is very easy to drive. It demands less than the X1, Slyr, and HP800.


----------



## bombadilio

Hey guys question.
  Really dumb question.... I purchased the Creative Soundblaster Zxr for my computer to power my new AKG K702 65th anniversary headphones. Do I need a portable amp? Something like the Fio E5 Portable Headphone amplifier? Is that something I need or something like the FiiO E12 Mont Blanc? OR do you think I should be ok?


----------



## Fegefeuer

You are very ok.


----------



## SatrDrive

Hey guys, I have a question too.
   
  Has anybody made experiences with the *Reloop RHM-10* microphone attachment?
  It looks like this:

  There is an 3.5mm audio input and a 3.5mm microphone output on the other side of the 3m cable.
   
  I haven't found anything about it in this forum and also nothing helpful on google.
   
  I'm concerned if the audio cable is of good enough quality for a 300$ headphone. The microphone doesn't matter too much as it is only supposed to be used in teamspeak/skype.
   
  I'm also open to alternatives but I don't want a table microphone.


----------



## Murder Mike

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> The microphone doesn't matter too much as it is only supposed to be used in teamspeak/skype.


 
   
  You might not think it's a big deal, but listening to someone with a bad mic is quite annoying. I got a Labtec LVA-7330 off eBay and I just put it around my neck and aim the boom at my face. Not the most glamorous thing in the world, but it gets the job done and sounds great.


----------



## SatrDrive

I know your concern and I meant that the quality should be enough for teamspeak, no need for studio quality. If possible it should filter the sound of my mouse and keyboard which are at a medium loudness in my opinion.
   
  Also I just saw the *Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear *which is about 2.5x as expensive but looks like a better quality to me. 
Personally I want to stay with the cheaper *Reloop*.
   
Sadly the Labtec isn't available in my continent (at least not for me) xD


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





satrdrive said:


> I'm also open to alternatives but I don't want a table microphone.


 
   
  What about this:
  http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/
  http://www.amazon.com/V-MODA-BoomPro-Gaming-Headset-Headphone/dp/B00BJ17WKK
   
  Looks higher quality than that Reloop mic.


----------



## crazyg0od33

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> What about this:
> http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/
> http://www.amazon.com/V-MODA-BoomPro-Gaming-Headset-Headphone/dp/B00BJ17WKK
> 
> Looks higher quality than that Reloop mic.


 
  I own the v-moda and can confirm that it's great.  I love it.  I did, stupidly haha, return my first one thinking it was defective.  In reality, the mic comes with the default setting of being muted, which I did not even consider, and I thought it just wasnt picking up my voice.  Once the new one came in I realized my mistake and its awesome!


----------



## Evshrug

bombadilio said:


> Hey guys question.
> Really dumb question.... I purchased the Creative Soundblaster Zxr for my computer to power my new AKG K702 65th anniversary headphones. Do I need a portable amp? Something like the Fio E5 Portable Headphone amplifier? Is that something I need or something like the FiiO E12 Mont Blanc? OR do you think I should be ok?




You will be ok. Best test is to just try it, lol. The FiiO E5 would be a downgrade in power and clarity, and if the ZxR is anything like Asus' STX soundcard with similar specs, then it has about equal power output to a FiiO E09k desktop amp. Ohm-rating is a very poor way to tell how much "power" an amp can handle, what you should care about is current and gain.


----------



## 3t3rnity

Quote: 





bombadilio said:


> Hey guys question.
> Really dumb question.... I purchased the Creative Soundblaster Zxr for my computer to power my new AKG K702 65th anniversary headphones. Do I need a portable amp? Something like the Fio E5 Portable Headphone amplifier? Is that something I need or something like the FiiO E12 Mont Blanc? OR do you think I should be ok?


 

 Let us know how the Zxr sounds and if it's good enough... will probably get one for myself, so I'm really interested in how more demanding headphones will do with it.


----------



## instantwin

Hey, I am looking for some closed headphones for general use (music, games, movies) and I am interested in the DT770 Pros. I noticed in the guide the version reviewed was the 80ohms version which is supposed to have more bass. Do you think the 250 version would be better for games?


----------



## chicolom

I'm going to go ahead and put my MA900s up for sale. 
   
  Too much overlap with what I already have, so they'll get neglected if I keep them.
   
  Somebody buy them! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  www.head-fi.org/t/679072/like-new-sony-mdr-ma900


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You didnt give them enough time! Stop using the others for a week!


----------



## chicolom

Don't tempt me!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I swear, you will appreciate them. Especially how comfy and unobtrusive they are, even compared to the X1 and Annie.


----------



## chicolom

They're definitely nice for hot weather! My KSC 35 can still handle that though.

Under normal temperatures the MA900 aren't necessarily more comfy for ME as Im a little conscious of the pads and tend to micro adjust them too often. They both less intrusive and more obtrusive so it sort of cancels itself out.


If I didn't already have the Anniversaries and X1s I could probably justify keeping them - but I DO have them.


----------



## ethan7000

chicolom said:


> They're definitely nice for hot weather! My KSC 35 can still handle that though.
> 
> Under normal temperatures the MA900 aren't necessarily more comfy for ME as Im a little conscious of the pads and tend to micro adjust them too often. They both less intrusive and more obtrusive so it sort of cancels itself out.
> 
> ...



What about the X1 - listening to softer music, I've been hearing little creaks as I move my head. It's becoming kind of annoying...


----------



## AxelCloris

V-moda M80s inbound later today. Going to try them with the V-moda BoomPro mic and see how they function as a gaming headset. Crossing my fingers that they're excellent for portable laptop gaming.


----------



## chicolom

I don't have any problems with it.

 Also, you should stay away from the full sized Audio Techinicas as they creak like crazy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Watching a movie (Pain n' Gain) off the PS3 via Mixamp... the MA900 impresses with the bass. Yes... it was still plenty bassy.


----------



## benbenkr

Tried the MA900 at a Sony store, surprised at how good it sounds. MLE's praise on it is legit.
   
  One issue personally, my ears presses against the drivers and I know it is going to hurt like crap after an hour's usage eventhough there isn't a lot of clamping pressure.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> V-moda M80s inbound later today. Going to try them with the V-moda BoomPro mic and see how they function as a gaming headset. Crossing my fingers that they're excellent for portable laptop gaming.




Please let me know how the sound sig compares to your MDs... assuming you have the 3.2 version.


----------



## pietcux

ethan7000 said:


> What about the X1 - listening to softer music, I've been hearing little creaks as I move my head. It's becoming kind of annoying...


l have this with nearly all cans I own. It, my glasses frame that creates the noise where the pads touch it. If I put the glasses of there is no noise anymore when I move my head. This happens with all kinds of pads: leather, pleather and velour.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Please let me know how the sound sig compares to your MDs... assuming you have the 3.2 version.


 
   
  I do not, mine are currently 3.1. But I can do a comparison of those side by side over the next couple days. I'd be running them both off my T1 as that's my home amp.


----------



## Naingolann

I'm also very interested in how V-MODA fare in competitive or general gaming. If they do both well, then I might get either the M80 or M100.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

benbenkr said:


> Tried the MA900 at a Sony store, surprised at how good it sounds. MLE's praise on it is legit.
> 
> One issue personally, my ears presses against the drivers and I know it is going to hurt like crap after an hour's usage eventhough there isn't a lot of clamping pressure.




I can tell you that while my ears touch as well, I can wear the MA900 all day. It doesn't pinch the same way say the Beyers do. The driver cover is soft and breathable. Still the most comfortable over ear I've ever worn outside the Siberia V1.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I do not, mine are currently 3.1. But I can do a comparison of those side by side over the next couple days. I'd be running them both off my T1 as that's my home amp.


 
   
  Hmm... I have no idea how different the 3.1 sounds but go right ahead if you don't mind. I would like to get another portable down the line because I recently sold my KEF M500...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can tell you that while my ears touch as well, I can wear the MA900 all day. It doesn't pinch the same way say the Beyers do. The driver cover is soft and breathable. Still the most comfortable over ear I've ever worn outside the Siberia V1.


 
   
  I really wish it had a detachable cable....


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I really wish it had a detachable cable....


 
   
  Yeah, the cable is on the thin side and doesn't look like it has much of a strain relief.   A good hard yank on it might do some damage.
   
  It's also a really long cable.


----------



## chicolom

UPS is bringing me something tomorrow.
   
  I wonder what it could be?....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your own K712?


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800


----------



## chicolom




----------



## chicolom

The MA900 just sold to some guy named "NamelessPFG"


----------



## davidsh

Who could that be..? Lucky person!
   
  On another note I know Nameless is getting a bunch of licorice pipes to sell illegally to EU citizens. He implied in the Stax thread.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> On another note I know Nameless is getting a bunch of *licorice pipes* to sell illegally to EU citizens. He implied in the Stax thread.


 
   
  LOL
   
  Is that a euphemism for something?...I've got your licorice pipe_ right here._


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





davidsh said:


> On another note I know Nameless is getting a bunch of licorice pipes to sell illegally to EU citizens. He implied in the Stax thread.


 
   
  I don't know what gave you that idea.


----------



## davidsh

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> LOL
> 
> Is that a euphemism for something?...I've got your licorice pipe_ right here._


 
  I'm being all serious, and it is to be understood literally.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm racist against blacks. Licorice that is. I only like mine in red.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I can tell you that while my ears touch as well, I can wear the MA900 all day. It doesn't pinch the same way say the Beyers do. The driver cover is soft and breathable. Still the most comfortable over ear I've ever worn outside the Siberia V1.


 
   
  Alright, I'll take your word for that. I had a brief time with it and my expectation of every headphone is that if it touches my ears, doesn't matter how good it'll sound it isn't going to be over my head at all. But I'll take your word for this one.
   
  One question to you though, I know you recently got an E17. Are you using it with your Mixamp when playing on consoles?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't feel it necessary for gaming. I use the MA900 with the Mixamp alone.

As for the comfort, like any and every other headphone, I have to readjust it every once in awhile on my head (X1 and Annie as well). I can feel the driver covers, but it's mostly a non-issue. Certainly not Beyer level.

I won't say the ears pressing up against the drivers won't bother you if you're that sensitive to it. Just throwing caution in the wind. I don't see it ever being an issue for most people though. If I had to rate the comfort right now, it's definitely a 9.50, Taking .50 away from the lack of density on the pads, and the headband not completely disappearing. Still, yes, it's that comfy.

If someone can swap in some legitimate Beyer 880/990 velours (Beyer, not aftermarket), I'd be interested in hearing what it does to the sound. That could push comfort to a 9.75 if the sound isn't negatively affected, and could keep the ears from touching the drivers.


----------



## davidsh

The licorice pipe is to be banned in EU if that makes more sense (due to bad influence on children, lol). I'll stop my OT ramblings now.


----------



## pietcux

We always crossed the Danish border to get these black sticks when I was younger anyways, so we know how to get us the best stuff.


----------



## NamelessPFG

For the record, I never could stand the taste of black licorice. It immediately made me want some tongue bleach.
   
  Red, vaguely strawberry-flavored licorice in the common form of Twizzlers, on the other hand? Decent stuff.
   
  As for the MA900 purchase, I guess curiosity got the better of me...again. I'm not expecting it to be Stax by a wide margin, but if it even comes close to Mad Lust Envy's claims about the sound quality and comfort, then it could easily become my default recommendation for an all-around headphone for when 'stats are just too expensive-something I don't feel comfortable recommending the AD700 for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Definitely not Stax level, especially in the treble (the treble is smooth, and calls zero attention to itself). But the mids are natural and well integrated, and the mid bass is pretty good. Sub bass is about as good as you expect from a Stax, which is to say, not really happening. But comfort and spaciousness, oh yeah. Just call it a comfortable all rounder that doesn't excel in any one thing but does basically everything well.

They are about the most inoffensive sounding headphone this side of the HD650/Annie/ESP950, beating the comfort and price of all three.


----------



## TheBizkit

I've been lurking around this forum here recently and noticed that you were talking about the ma900s. I have astro a40s and was wondering if it is worth it to replace them with the ma900s?
   
  The ma900s are right in my price range, and I'm looking for a decent set of headphones to game with.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I would like your input on this. I know you are judging off pure memory, but can you remember which HP has the more forward mids to you... MD or Annie? To my ears it seems like the MDs are slightly ahead... but I wanted a second opinion. I'm not sure if its because of the openness of the Annie making it sound like that... or if what I am assuming is actually correct.
   
  Edit: Never mind... I think I may be coming down with a slight cold so my hearing might be a bit impaired. The Annie definitely has the more forward mids... at least I think. I'll wait until I get over my sickness to get a better analysis. But if this is right, I may have to lunge to the K712 with its smoother mids... as I'm predicting chico did as well... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Or I may have to just get the thicker pads for the Annie down the line and deal with the slight differences it will have from the K712. I _really_ prefer the looks of the Annie.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annies have the more forward mids. Chico stated the K712 isnt as intimate, so the mids aren't going to be as forward sounding.


Bizkit, I do think the MA900 is a pretty step up from the A40s. I'd say go cop those bad boys.


----------



## chicolom

The Anniversary is slightly more intimate.  SInce the K712 is also slightly fuller overall (which usually makes things sound more intimate anyways) it's not a huge difference between them.  Overall the K712 sounds slightly more open though.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Annies have the more forward mids. Chico stated the K712 isnt as intimate, so the mids aren't going to be as forward sounding.


 
   
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The Anniversary is slightly more intimate.  SInce the K712 is also slightly fuller overall (which usually makes things sound more intimate anyways) it's not a huge difference between them.  Overall the K712 sounds slightly more open though.


 
   
  That's why I may just get the thicker pads instead of switching headphones completely. I know you say the pads don't make the Annie identical to the 712... but will it be close enough? I don't necessarily want the 712's sound... I just don't mind a little more air with slightly smoother mids. The pads do give that effect correct? Though not as full sounding as the stock K712? How much bass is pushed back when doing so? I know you told me it wasn't by much... just wanted to reconfirm because that was before you started preferring the K712's sound.


----------



## chicolom

The only thing the pads do is reduce the intimacy.  That's pretty much it.  Everything gets spaced back a little.  It doesn't change the signautre, so it won't smooth the mids or add more air (well, it might _sound _like it has more air because it's less intimate).  So it won't really sound like the K712.  I like Anniversary + K712 pads more than the stock Anniversary. 
   
  The Anniversary has more foward _upper_ mids.  The K712 has more forward _low _mids.  Middle mids...I'm not sure - I _think _the K712.  The mids have more body and fullness on the K712.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The only thing the pads do is reduce the intimacy.  That's pretty much it.  Everything gets spaced back a little.  It doesn't change the signautre, so it won't smooth the mids or add more air (well, it might _sound _like it has more air because it's less intimate).  So it won't really sound like the K712.  I like Anniversary + K712 pads more than the stock Anniversary.
> 
> The Anniversary has more foward _upper_ mids.  The K712 has more forward _low _mids.  Middle mids...I'm not sure - I _think _the K712.  The mids have more body and fullness on the K712.


 
   
  Preciate it. The more I see you giving me info the more I think Mad was right, you've switched out on the Anniversary and bought the K712 lol. I don't know if I'm ready to take that plunge just yet. My wallet is glad I wasn't the one testing them... for now lol.


----------



## chicolom

Spoiler: Look%20what%20I%20found...%20


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I knew it.


----------



## Change is Good

I sense a new hype train coming lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, if you want less intimacy, you definitely don't want the 650. It's pushed up even closer than the Annie.

Change, not from me. I like the intimacy the Annie brings and it's plenty spacious. I love it's female vocals. I'm sure the K712 is a slightly different interpretation of the same sound. Certainly not enough to make me jump from one to another, at least not at the K712's cost. Maybe when it comes down to the $360 range like the Annie, but only then. And I mean IF I wanted something else. I don't. I'm happy with the MA900 as my comfort/open can, and the X1 as my main (unless I can score a D7000 for a good price, which would make me sell the X1.)


----------



## chicolom

What gave it away!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  Was it all the _"I prefer the K712..."_ comments??


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Change, not from me. I like the intimacy the Annie brings and it's plenty spacious. I love it's female vocals. I'm sure the K712 is a slightly different interpretation of the same sound. Certainly not enough to make me jump from one to another, at least not at the K712's cost. Maybe when it comes down to the $360 range like the Annie, but only then. And I mean IF I wanted something else. I don't. I'm happy with the MA900 as my comfort/open can, and the X1 as my main (unless I can score a D7000 for a good price, which would make me sell the X1.)


 
   
  Damn, I made a major false prediction then lol. I may jump on the train because from what I am observing it sounds like they would be a better match to the MD than the Annie. I'm with you, though, I may have to wait until they drop to the same price range I bought the Annie for.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> chicolom said:
> ...


 
   
  Naaah...


----------



## Ketonic

I recently picked up some Beyer DT 770 80s to use mostly for music, but I tried them with my Astro mixamp and they're so much better than the a40s! The a40s just sounded artificial, although the explosions sounded a little bit better. Would I be well off using my Beyers for gaming and music, or getting something like the AD700 or 558 just for gaming? I want a good balance of immersion and positional accuracy for games. Thanks!


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Chico, if you want less intimacy, you definitely don't want the 650. It's pushed up even closer than the Annie.
> 
> Change, not from me. I like the intimacy the Annie brings and it's plenty spacious. I love it's female vocals. I'm sure the K712 is a slightly different interpretation of the same sound. Certainly not enough to make me jump from one to another, at least not at the K712's cost. Maybe when it comes down to the $360 range like the Annie, but only then. And I mean IF I wanted something else. I don't. I'm happy with the MA900 as my comfort/open can, and the X1 as my main (unless I can score a D7000 for a good price, which would make me sell the X1.)


 
   
  Hmm...When I listened to the HD650 that one time, it didn't sound _particularly _intimate.  I'll keep that in mind though.
   
  MLE, I myself would peg you for preferring the K712 in general. You get a bit more fullness and body while simultaneously being a tad more spacious, plus it's less fatiguing and dry sounding.  The main thing the Anniversary has going for it is the air being a little more forward.  If your just after female vocals and....intimacy (yuck!) I'm not sure I can advise - I'm no an expert in those areas.  The K712 is not _that _different in intimacy than the Anniversary.  Like I said on the last page, the added fullness and body can cancel out some of the deeper pads effect.
   
  D7000 would probably make X1 redundant sound wise.  I thought you were done with pleather/leather though?
  Someone showed me this Denon headphone on the soundstage thread that's supposed to be similar to the D7000 but in a DJ style like the M50s.  They also said it had the same drivers as the D7000, but I'm not sure about that - I didn't look around to confirm or deny it.
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/541654/denon-dn-hp700-review-and-comparison-to-the-ah-d7000
   
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> I may jump on the train because from what I am observing it sounds like they would be a better match to the MD than the Annie. I'm with you, though, I may have to wait until they drop to the same price range I bought the Annie for.


 
   
  Well, I would sell your Anniversary first and "turn it in" for the K712 Pro.  Not much sense in keeping them both, unless you want to compare them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm saying, if I happened to own the Annie, I wouldn't necessarily be in a rush to sell them at a massive lost for a small shift in signature. There was absolutely nothing I disliked about the Annie. So unless the K712 Pro improved over something quite significantly, I'd hold out until it was around $360.

Nothing will beat the MA900 in terms of it's comfort, weight, and just pleasing tonal signature. Hence why it's my favorite alternative to a main headphone. BECAUSE it's an alternative, and not a main, I wouldn't use the Annie or K712 as a main. So I'm perfectly happy woth the MA900 in that regard. My main has to be bassy and slightly energetic in the treble. The X1 is pretty much what I wanted, though the D7000 is still the king for me.

I AM done with pleather. The D7000 is the only exception (that or the TH900). And even then, I'd buy some Lawton leather pads to further help get away from the pleather.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Well, I would sell your Anniversary first and "turn it in" for the K712 Pro.  Not much sense in keeping them both, unless you want to compare them.


 
   
  Definitely selling them, first. I'm dead broke until mid September... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: I just grew a big enough sack to do the bass test since I'm now thinking about selling them. No issues whatsoever...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Edit: I just grew a big enough sack to do the bass test since I'm now thinking about selling them. No issues whatsoever...


 
   
  Haha.
   
  I tested the K712s right after I got them and they were fine.  Buttery smooth.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Nothing will beat the MA900 in terms of it's comfort, weight, and just pleasing tonal signature. Hence why it's my favorite alternative to a main headphone. BECAUSE it's an alternative, and not a main, I wouldn't use the Annie or K712 as a main. So I'm perfectly happy woth the MA900 in that regard.


 
   
   
  I'm confused.  Are you saying you don't consider the MA900 as a main headphone but an alternative-to-a-main headphone?  So you have a "1 Main headphone + 1 Alternative" policy now?  Didn't you say you're using the MA900 more than the X1...so isn't the MA900 your _main_ headphone??
   
   





....two mains......unforgivable......blasphemy.
   
  I reported you to Jude and Currawong for having two headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

My wallet is beginning to hate you chico!


----------



## chicolom

Haha. 
   
  It's just _now_ beginning too?
   
  I see someone posted a new classified...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Haha.
> 
> It's just _now_ beginning too?
> 
> I see someone posted a new classified...


 
   
  Yep! With extra goodies too...


----------



## chicolom

It's good you're selling those too, because the K712 _comes with_ a nice big velvety pouch and a coiled cable.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> It's good you're selling those too, because the K712 _comes with_ a nice big velvety pouch and a coiled cable.


 
   
  I already know; hence why they are included in my classified... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The bag I have is much more durable, though... so that will be a bummer


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I'm confused.  Are you saying you don't consider the MA900 as a main headphone but an alternative-to-a-main headphone?  So you have a "1 Main headphone + 1 Alternative" policy now?  Didn't you say you're using the MA900 more than the X1...so isn't the MA900 your _main_ headphone??
> 
> 
> :eek: ....two mains......unforgivable......blasphemy.
> ...




Well, I prefer just having just one headphone, but because I'm so happy with the MA900, I'll use it as my alternative. My X1 IS my main, just that as of late, I've been using the MA900 almost exclusively. Ideally, the X1 will get the most use, and the MA900 will be when I'm fatigued by the X1's stronger clamp or leaner mids.

All in all, the X1 will be my main music/movie headphone, and the MA900 will be my TV show/anime/gaming headphone. Still, the MA900 is actually more of an all rounder due to the better mids, still good bass, and non-fatiguing treble. Again, not saying it's technically better.


----------



## Change is Good

And just in case this info might be useful to other MD owners... my reason for having interest in the K712 PRO is because, like chico, I found the upper mids to be a bit piercing after switching back to the AE after using the MD for an extensive period of time (chico had the same effect when switching from the K712). So I am assuming that the K712 will be a better match for the MD... rather than the AE.
   
  Edit: Once I get my hands on the K712 I will make sure add my thoughts


----------



## calpis

I'm at a point in my life where a little bit of change might be good. I've been rocking my m-stage and Pro2900 for like 2 years now. Should I get an iCan and ma900 or just put all that money towards a TH600 or Maddog or Alpha dog?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 wouldn't need an iCan, and should rock out quite well on the Mstage. The higher output impedance on the M-stage won't affect the MA900 due to the impedance compensator built in.

While I LOVE the MA900, you might wanna jump into something more high end than what you own. TH600 sounds like something I'd go for if I had the funds, if only because someone compared it to a modded D7000. Not sure if that's enough bass for my taste (and I want bass out of such an expensive headphone), but it does sound appealing to me for a closed can. The Alpha Dogs are probably too technical and linear for my taste.

I loved the Mad Dog 3.2, but it was still mid-fi and closed to me. I prefer the MA900 overall, though the MD 3.2 did bass incredibly well.


The MA900 has such a low price of entry, so maybe if you wanna save money and want a warm, balanced, incredibly comfy headphone, you should look into it. The Annie (and probably K712 Pro even moreso) would be even better than the MA900 in technicality, refinement, and detail, and should be driven easly by the Mstage. I really only recommend the MA900 for those that want something affordable and competent with everything.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





calpis said:


> I'm at a point in my life where a little bit of change might be good. I've been rocking my m-stage and Pro2900 for like 2 years now. Should I get an iCan and ma900 or just put all that money towards a TH600 or Maddog or Alpha dog?


 
    

  I would go for TH600 personally.  The TH600 sounds very enticing.  I've read it does a good chunk of what the TH900 does, and is a better value.
   
  I've read the Alpha Dogs are really FAST sounding.  Not sure if that's good or bad for them yet.
   
   
  The iCan is great for tweaking the sound and soundstage lovers who like playing with the soundstage, but at default settings it doesn't quite replace the M-stage.  The M-stage is still _slightly _airy and with a _slightly _larger soundstage.  I usually prefer to listen to the iCan with a bit of sub-bass boost and the 3D soundstage over the M-stage though.
   
   
  Quote: 





> Quote:
> 
> 
> mad lust envy said:
> ...


 
   
   
  That's true, although the iCans sub-bass boost certainly helps out the MA900.   
   
  I think Calpis should go for TH600 though.


----------



## calpis

The low price of the MA900 really tickles my curiosity. I would like to see just how comfy they are.
   
  Have you looked into the velour pads off an akg 242? They should be right about the same size as the beyers.
   
  Edit: Pretty sure I can safely buy the TH600 with my next paycheck. I do have to take my car in for servicing which is preventing me from getting them now :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I was gonna spend so much, I'd just hold out for the TH900. XD

I'm really hoping the TH600 has sub bass like the D7000. That MIGHT make me sell off a limb for one. I should've told Justin at Headamp to send me the demo, but now it's too late. 

Cal, I was going to send the MA900 to you and a few others, so I'd at least hold off on getting them so you can at least demo them first. I've already started writing in my review, so you guys can expect the MA900 to be sent out within a week or two at the latest. It's gonna hurt sending them out. I've grown attached to it. I think the X1 has had about 2 hours head time in the past, what, 2 weeks?

As for the 242 pads, aren't they using a snap on mechanism like the K70x? That won't work with the MA900. It needs to be a slip on type of pad, and it needs to be big in diameter.

For the MA900 loaner. I'm looking at:

Change, Evs, Calpis, MattTCG, Nameless (he just bought Chico's), Chicolom (no need).


----------



## chicolom

K242 pads just slip on I think.  My K240 did.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... it's worth checking, though it looks more dense than the legit 990 pads. For the MA900, the less dense, the better the chance that the sound won't get screwed up.

None of you with 880s/990s? Man.


----------



## calpis

Reading over the past 15 pages made me forget that I really wanted to build a new computer XD
   
   


mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... it's worth checking, though it looks more dense than the legit 990 pads. For the MA900, the less dense, the better the chance that the sound won't get screwed up.
> 
> None of you with 880s/990s? Man.


   


  I'll get back to you tomorrow, I have some vintage beyers (need to find them) that might work. Not sure about the conditions of the pads though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for the loans, I do realize two of you have Annies/Q701, so I'm SAYING if you really want to demo the MA900 bear in mind that they're not on the same level as the AKGs. Think of these as the cheaper alternative to the 70x/Annie/HD6x0 with more comfort and less demand for amping.


----------



## ShooK

Which one would you choose? The Astro a40 2013 @ $150 (headset only) or the Creative Aurvana Live + Antlion Modmic @ $90... I'm looking for something good all around for music/competitive gaming. I listen to rap mainly, but I occasionally listen to other genres.I currently have the 2011 Astro mixamp as well.  Also, I was wondering, for those that own the modmic, how is the sound quality on xbl in comparison to the original $20 wired ms headset or the astros?


----------



## kman1211

I already tried the K240 MKII's pleather and velour pads, doesn't help the sound, makes the bass overkill and muddies up the sound, can't see the K242 pads being much different. Only pads I know of I see likely being good for the MA900 are the DT880/990 pads.


----------



## Ketonic

Can someone go into more depth about the 598, AD700, or 558 sound quality? I understand that they're good for positional accuracy, but I want something that immerses me as well.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote: 





ketonic said:


> Can someone go into more depth about the 598, AD700, or 558 sound quality? I understand that they're good for positional accuracy, but I want something that immerses me as well.


 
   
  Since the HD558 is still mostly my main headphone for music and games, what I can tell you in terms of immersiveness is that it isn't actually all that good in this department. Not horrible mind you, but because the HD558 doesn't really extend that deep in bass, there's really not much immersiveness factor here.
   
  So if you're to watch movies, the HD558's mids might be too forward (clean though!) and overpowering all the low-end details. The HD598 is even more bass shy than the HD558, but has a slightly more refined sound overall. The AD700? Well, it has zero bass so yeah...
   
  The HD558 is another one of those decent all-rounders that doesn't do anything exceptionally well, but doesn't fail in anything either. The bass is what I would say, adequate for gaming and movies... but certainly, not immersive enough.

 Reason I've stuck with it is because I love angled drivers and I've always liked the clamp on Sennheiser headphones, comfort basically.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Quote: 





calpis said:


> The low price of the MA900 really tickles my curiosity. I would like to see just how comfy they are.
> 
> Have you looked into the Velour pads off an AKG K242HD?  They should be right about the same size as the Beyers.


 
  AKG K240/K242HD headphones use an ear pad that is slightly larger then the ear pads on the Beyer DT770/DT880/DT990 headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've been playing with the V-Moda M-80 the past couple days. I picked up Bioshock Infinite since it's now available on Mac and I've given the M-80 several hours of head time. I've also played a little Borderlands 2, mainly to test out the V-Moda BoomPro mic cable in multiplayer.
   
  For staters, I really enjoy the M-80 as a portable headset. Get that out of the way right up front. They sound great both directly off the Macbook Pro as well as through my Recon 3D USB. The BoomPro cable, from what my teammates have said, is clear and crisp without any noticeable major delays in voice chat. Voice quality is on par with my Modmic v1, and it's easier to use since the Macbook has a TRRS connection so there's no need for an adapter like I use with the Modmic. Granted that advantage is missing as soon as another device comes into the mix, such as my Recon 3D or my Aune T1 amp. But at least V-Moda was kind enough to include a Y-adapter for just such a situation. It does an excellent job splitting the signals for my Recon 3D when using it as an amp/DSP. Another reason why I think they're excellent portables is the build quality and the included hard shell case for transportation. These things are built like the tanks of the headphone world. I foresee these going everywhere with me when I'm traveling as they don't require any additional hardware, when gaming in stereo of course.
   
  Now for home gaming use, they would not be my first pick. When I weighed them against both my Mad Dogs (3.1 rev) and my AKG Q701 they left me wanting in different areas. Next to both headphones, the M-80 lacked depth. Not surprising considering it's up against full sized around ear headphones. The soundstage was about the same for both the M-80 and the Mad Dogs. Next to the MDs, I find that I lose some of the immersion and overall feel of the game audio. But that's not necessarily a full negative, as the M-80 does an excellent job of bringing forward the voice work and sets it apart from the ambiance. Elizabeth's voice was more focused towards me than with the Mad Dogs. Both are considered relatively neutral headphones with a slight warmth to the body. Would I want to use the Mad Dogs directly off my Macbook or even the Recon 3D? No, not really. There's a serious lack of power there which causes them to miss a lot of the presentation. So I would want to have a nice desktop amp behind them powering the Mad Dogs properly. I feel like I can't compare my Q701s with the M-80s properly yet, as I've been focusing more on comparing 2 closed headphones so they'd be on a more even playing field. Adding an amp to the M-80s doesn't help much at all, from what I noticed. Sure you get minor improvements here and there but overall it's a very efficient headphone and was designed to be able to run directly off an MP3 or CD player. One last quick note for home, I also have not yet tried them with my Mixamp 5.8. I'm not a huge console gamer. I primarily play on my computer either in OS X or Win8.
   
  Music wise, I didn't give them a whole lot of time A/Bing with my other headphones. But they handled almost every genre I threw at them and reproduced wonderful sounds. I say almost, as my ska music wasn't as energetic as I'm use to hearing. But the M-80s seem to lack sparkle. And that makes sense, as they're a more mid and bass centric design. They don't focus on the upper range as much, so some of the brass comes off as flat when I listen. This could also be due in part to the recordings themselves. But again, not a whole lot of music time with them.
   
  These impressions are from 2 days of experience with the M-80s. Not a long time I know so these are relatively early impressions still. Hopefully my stream of consciousness writing didn't lose anyone too often along the way.


----------



## Naingolann

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the V-MODA M-80s. Although it seems like they're just decent gaming wise, I'd still be interested in hearing them myself...One day...


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I really hope Dan sends you a pair of Alpha Dogs to review. I may wait until after then to determine if I will buy the K712 or just upgrade my MDs to the Alphas with the money I get after selling the Anniversary. If the soundstage on the Alphas score around a 9 then that will be the route I take.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> These impressions are from 2 days of experience with the M-80s. Not a long time I know so these are relatively early impressions still. Hopefully my stream of consciousness writing didn't lose anyone too often along the way.


 
   
  Thanks for the impressions.  Makes perfect sense to me.
   
  Also, feel free to hop in here:
  http://www.head-fi.org/groups/show/22/ohio-head-fiers


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Mad, I really hope Dan sends you a pair of Alpha Dogs to review. I may wait until after then to determine if I will buy the K712 or just upgrade my MDs to the Alphas with the money I get after selling the Anniversary. If the soundstage on the Alphas score around a 9 then that will be the route I take.


 
   
  If that was aimed at me, I won't be. If it was aimed at MLE, he's on the list Dan (Mr. Speakers) created for the tour. I'm hoping MLE draws an early lot in the chain. You know, so I have less time to think about it.  I only post occasionally even though I'm reading the forums multiple times a day. One of Dan's requirements was 1000+ post count. I'm not anywhere near that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My problem is that I dont have a legitimate amp to power them well. Anyone wanna lend me a desktop amp for September? Lol.

I don't see myself buying any for now.


----------



## Change is Good

Since we're close I can contribute. You get to chose which you'd like to borrow, too. You have to add it to the guide though for me to do it


----------



## chicolom

Maybe if you send him the iCan he'll realize it's pretty sweet.


----------



## Change is Good

I can't currently cover any shipping unless I sell my Anniversary, though. Yea... I'm that broke


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, its a planar, so I'd want something with more power than the iCan.


----------



## Change is Good

The Alpha is 2-3db more efficient than the Mad Dogs. And the iCAN drives them just fine...

Maybe you shouldn't of gotten rid of your Compass 2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Needed the money. And the Fostex drivers are known to scale with a lot more power. I noticed it with the MD 3.2. So while they may be more efficient, those drivers still take in a lot.


----------



## calpis

The Marantz can't push them enough?


----------



## Change is Good

I feel ya on needing the money part.
   
  I was just offering because you said "legitimate amp"... as if what I have isn't. I know planars scale better with more power... but I guess we all have different definitions of the word _legitimate_.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> The Marantz can't push them enough?




Lol, my Marantz died ages ago.


----------



## calpis

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Lol, my Marantz died ages ago.


 
  FFFFFFUUUUUUUU
   
  I'm sorry for your loss


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, $200 down the drain. I had to find another Mixamp on Ebay. :/


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> My problem is that I dont have a legitimate amp to power them well. Anyone wanna lend me a desktop amp for September? Lol.
> 
> I don't see myself buying any for now.


 
   
  I bet you're really wishing that SR-5002 hadn't failed when it did right now...
   
  I could lend you a nice amp, but it's not going to power the Alpha Dog, let alone the vast majority of the headphones on the market, as you know.
   
  EDIT: MA900 GET! Quickly took it out of the box, put it on, and put some music on. First impressions are VERY promising already, and MLE wasn't kidding about the comfort...though I do have to shift it quite forward relative to my ears in order to keep my pinnae from touching the inside of the cups.


----------



## Evshrug

AxelCloris,
Thanks for the update, I'll have to get around to posting my M-100 impressions. Does have more high-end sparkle.



mad lust envy said:


> As for the loans, I do realize two of you have Annies/Q701, so I'm SAYING if you really want to demo the MA900 bear in mind that they're not on the same level as the AKGs. Think of these as the cheaper alternative to the 70x/Annie/HD6x0 with more comfort and less demand for amping.



Well if you remember how close I was to keeping the AD700 when EQ'd... I appreciate performance, but I also appreciate value. I can appreciate a headphone on it's own merits.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Thanks for the update, I'll have to get around to posting my M-100 impressions. Does have more high-end sparkle.


 
   
  From what I understand, the M-100 isn't designed to be a more neutral response like the M-80, but rather that it has a V-shape to the sound. Not an overly aggressive one like some headphones, but definitely not a neutral response. But that's just how I processed my reading about the set. I'm still looking to listen to them down the road. Over ear is much more comfortable with glasses than on ear.
   
  Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on them.


----------



## Change is Good

Looks like Onkyo has joined the headphone world...
   
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-ES-HF300-On-Ear-Headphones-Silver/dp/B0081R7XR2


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> From what I understand, the M-100 isn't designed to be a more neutral response like the M-80, but rather that it has a V-shape to the sound. Not an overly aggressive one like some headphones, but definitely not a neutral response. But that's just how I processed my reading about the set. I'm still looking to listen to them down the road. Over ear is much more comfortable with glasses than on ear.
> 
> Definitely looking forward to your thoughts on them.



Yeah, fair bit of v-shaped, but not too much. Doesn't suck out the presence of vocals like the HE400, the bass and treble have a bit of prominence relative to the mids but those mids sound about neutral. I honestly think Mad would enjoy them, kind of like upgraded CAL!s, but obviously still the pleather earpads. I did notice the pads had some holes in them which I assume are for a little venting and shaping the sound, and they aren't as firm as I remember the M-80 pads from my RadioShack demo (the actual drivers in those, sadly, had been trashed).

If I don't have graphic design work tomorrow (and I don't feel utterly lazy), I'll do a write-up on them. Been listening to them for a good while.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Looks like Onkyo has joined the headphone world...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-ES-HF300-On-Ear-Headphones-Silver/dp/B0081R7XR2




Looks good from reviews, though I'm skeptical about the hours of listening comfort. People may say the same about M-100, and while those are quite comfy for an hour, I start to feel sore from the headband and earpads after that, and the Q701 are clearly (objectively) more comfortable long-term. Just different design. I notice these Onkyo's have titanium drivers... The drivers themselves have a pretty remarkable resemblance to the also titanium plated Koss KSC 75.


----------



## Change is Good

I've read a couple impressions on a seperate thread and it is said that it's slightly v-shaped, itself.


----------



## Evshrug

Closed headphones usually are... Tho I think I saw a Beyerdynamic that was amazingly flat


----------



## NamelessPFG

Whew, just finished a few missions of PAYDAY 2 with a group of friends. Just like its predecessor, it'll leave you feeling exhausted and relieved after making it out of a heist alive, having survived a whole army's worth of enemies being sent at you as you hold the line.
   
  And of course, I was playing with the MA900 the whole time to assess its gaming prowess. Long story short, it passes with flying colors.
   
  As for everything else, it's pretty much most of what I ask for in a headphone. Comfortable. Lovely midrange for vocals. Decent sense of clarity. Huge soundstage. And it's only $150-155, no expensive amplifier needed!
   
  The treble does seem a bit diluted, but part of that's because I'm coming from a headphone whose entire series is known for its brightness. Besides, it's nothing a little EQ won't fix.
   
  If I needed to provide all of my computers with a headphone...well, it's safe to say that I'd probably just buy a bunch of MA900s in bulk. It's not everyday that a headphone has been THIS ideal for my tastes, and for such a low price, too!
   
  Do I like it better than my SR-Lambda? Probably not, if we're talking pure sound quality, but then I'd be comparing a $150-155 headphone that runs off anything nicely, even portables, to a $300-350 headphone that literally won't work without a specialized amp setup that can easily cost more than the headphones themselves.
   
  Yet I already like it better than the HE-400 and SR-202 due to superior midrange and comfort, both of which are significantly more expensive. Funny how that works...
   
  I suppose the most important thing for me is that I finally have a reasonably affordable all-rounder to recommend to people. I already knew from the outset that recommending Stax of all things for gaming was gross overkill, but I just didn't have much experience with anything else at the time and didn't want to spend the big bucks on the usual AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser models.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I'm happy that you're having such a pleasant experience (sure the technical prowess of your choice STAX setup outstrips it, but can you say you're actually having less fun/enjoyment?), but on the other hand I'm dismayed that more and more people I respect are enjoying something I haven't heard... But I'm patient. Part of me wonders how much I'll like it. I'm confident from all yinz testimonies that it is a very good headphone, but _how much will* I* like it?_


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Well, I'm happy that you're having such a pleasant experience (sure the technical prowess of your choice STAX setup outstrips it, but can you say you're actually having less fun/enjoyment?), but on the other hand I'm dismayed that more and more people I respect are enjoying something I haven't heard... But I'm patient. Part of me wonders how much I'll like it. I'm confident from all yinz testimonies that it is a very good headphone, but _how much will* I* like it?_


 
   
  That italicized part has always been my big concern with headphones in general, especially since not everyone's preferences line up with mine. Only a first-hand audition can tell me what I need to know.
   
  I wouldn't say I'm enjoying the MA900 significantly more than the Stax system in spite of technical inferiority so much as I'm just impressed that I'd be this satisfied overall with a mere $150 headphone. Remember, I jumped straight from the AD700 to the "beater" Lambda two years ago, then sampled other expensive stuff like the HE-400 and SR-202, only to find myself disappointed. The only one that really succeeded it was a real SR-Lambda still in stock condition-something that's discontinued and still requires the same sort of special amplification.
   
  Ultimately, the fun/enjoyment any set of headphones can bring lies in the music. Music I don't like won't suddenly become a favorite of mine if played through different headphones.
   
  By the way, as part of my MA900 evaluation, what I might do is lend out the whole SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 setup to anyone I trust enough with such valuable equipment as encouragement for me to stick with the MA900 for a length of time before putting the SR-Lambda back into frontline service.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm glad first response for the MA900 has been good. There just isn't much of anything to complain about. If you like aggressive headphones, then maybe it won't be amazing for metal, but for medium to slower genres will do just fine off the MA900.

As Nameless said, the treble is most likely going to be what jumps out the least, but its not muted in the sense of it becoming veiled or overly smooth. The MA900 is plenty clear, balanced, and tonally accurate. It is still wonderfully spacious sounding despite the treble not aiding in that last bit of air unlike something like the AD900 and DT990 which has better extension in the upper range with the added cost of ear fatigue.

I'm telling you all, it's to the point where I want to sell off my X1 and call it a day. The non-existent weight and nearly perfect comfort of the MA900, paired with how great they do for most things, just make me wanna keep them as my only headphone. At the end of the day, comfort wins over the extra SQ of something like the X1 or Annies for me.

I don't listen to music nearly THAT much, and I keep wanting to reach for my MA900 for gaming use, which is the vast majority of my headphone use.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Hey, what do you think i should buy for 60 % gaming 40 % music
Musics is rap hip hop and house so bassy
Games are fpses 
Not super fazed about footsteps and that just want an immersive experience 
Can get a sound card later


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fidelio X1 is a safe bet.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> Fidelio X1 is a safe bet.



Thankyou  
Any recommendation for sound card to pair them with?


----------



## Skipshrike

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> Thankyou
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Creative Sound Blaster Z or ZXR.


----------



## Mitchb2020

skipshrike said:


> Creative Sound Blaster Z or ZXR.



Why not asus dx?


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> Why not asus dx?



Because drivers, software, power cable. But if Dolby Headphone is a must, then DX can work.


----------



## Mitchb2020

ethan7000 said:


> Because drivers, software, power cable. But if Dolby Headphone is a must, then DX can work.




Well im new to this stuff
What are the main differences between the dx and blaster z

Which does what better
Which has better what
If someone could tell me that please


----------



## kellte2

Figured I'd drop in and give everyone a heads up that I'm selling my Mixamp Pro 2013.  Priced it to move and would love to send it to a Head-Fi'er - especially someone on the MLE thread.  Link attached below:
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/679579/mixamp-pro-2013


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I personally don't recommend those Sound Blaster cards due to that SBX surround which to me sounds utterly inferior to DH and THX Tru Studio. But hey, to each their own.


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> Well im new to this stuff
> What are the main differences between the dx and blaster z
> 
> Which does what better
> ...



We just did. Like MLE said, Dolby Headphone is the surround sound on the DX. Many prefer it to SBX surround on the Z. However, the Z is a newer card, has better software that's more stable, better DSP, e.g. EQ, dynamic range expansion etc., does not require an annoying cable to be attached to it, and has much lower output impedance. But if you are mainly gaming, the DX still might be preferred due to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

For those looking for a near perfect amp to pair with their AKG x7xx there is a sale in the month of October at Matrix USA. They will have the original M-Stage on sale for $234 and the USB version for $261. It is great to now have an office in the US so we in the states can avoid long turnarounds in case of any problems. I, personally, am kind of curious about the Matrix Mini Amp/DAC but it is too expensive for me. I'd rather wait on the E18 to release.
   
http://www.head-fi.org/t/475618/matrix-m-stage-amp-review-simple-cheap-and-excellent/4275#post_9761691
   
http://www.matrix-digi.com/en/Partners/find.html
   
  Anyway, I hope their business here thrives so they can justify keeping it open. Last time I called them the guy answered with a plain old "hello" rather than introducing the company. He mentioned that they rarely get any calls concerning Matrix. That was about six months ago when they first opened, though.


----------



## oledktvs

I think he mentioned that Black Ops has a terrible audio somewhere I can't remember. He plays on consoles too


----------



## Mitchb2020

or guys would i be better of saving more for the Stx ?
 what would you suggest as alternatives at that price point


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

oledktvs said:


> I think he mentioned that Black Ops has a terrible audio somewhere I can't remember. He plays on consoles too




That was like 3 years ago, lol. I play some games on pc. In fact, ive been mostly playing on pc lately. Currently on Bioshock Infinite.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Stx??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has a high output impedance, so it may affect sensitive headphones like the X1 slightly. I haven't heard it from an amp like that so I can't say. I personally prefer just using a cheap Xonar u3 with an optical dac and amp. U3 - optical out - E17. You get Dolby Headphone, and the better dac and amp of the E17.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> It has a high output impedance, so it may affect sensitive headphones like the X1 slightly. I haven't heard it from an amp like that so I can't say. I personally prefer just using a cheap Xonar u3 with an optical dac and amp. U3 - optical out - E17. You get Dolby Headphone, and the better dac and amp of the E17.




Ill just go with the dx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DX may just have the ability to do Dolby headphone through the optical out, so you can always use real dac and amp with it later on.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> The DX may just have the ability to do Dolby headphone through the optical out, so you can always use real dac and amp with it later on.



Thanks  
In the meantime how will the x1s handle realtek alc898


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, I don't ever use onboard with it, but the X1 is pretty easy to drive and I'm sure will sound great regardless.


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, MLE, the big question:
   
  Are you ready to review another electrostatic setup? Trust me on this, the Lambdas don't necessarily sound identical despite having the same frame, and it's hard for me to find impressions of the vintage Lambdas vs. the modern "numerical" ones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno man, that shipping cost. :/

I do want to though.

Hey Evs, when you get them... try to see if the AD700 pads will fit. The MA900 has a very large diameter, and the AD700 pads may slip over...


----------



## Mitchb2020

Hey if i have a pair of dt990s and e17 on ebay
I can't link them on here can i?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> Hey if i have a pair of dt990s and e17 on ebay
> I can't link them on here can i?


 
   
  Just post a classified on the for sale forum
   
http://www.head-fi.org/f/41/for-sale-trade-forums


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Hey Evs, when you get them... try to see if the AD700 pads will fit. The MA900 has a very large diameter, and the AD700 pads may slip over...


 
   
   
  Why are you wanting to pad roll the MA900s?  Are you trying to mess with the sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Why are you wanting to pad roll the MA900s?  Are you trying to mess with the sound?




No way. I love the sound as is. I wanna see what pads with more thickness can keep the sound relatively the same. If there is a pad that does that, it can put the MA900 at like a 9.9 in comfort. The stock pad just has no fluff. I think a thicker pad may keep those with super sentitive ears from touching the drivers.

The only problem I see with the AD700 pads is that they're angled, and because the MA900 housing is already angled... it may ruin the sound.


----------



## Change is Good

Didn't Evs sell his AD700?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Aww, snap. I forgot.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm still interested in hearing the MA900 but I think it'd be better to have me at the end of the line so I can have some funds to pay for shipping by then.
   
  Did I mention I was broke? C'mon... someone buy my Anniversaries! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I won't be making any moves until I get a paycheck, anyway, so I could use some money in my pocket until then for lunch at school n stuff...


----------



## chicolom

Hmm.  Some MA900s on the FS forum for $110.  I'm half-temped to buy them again at _that _price just to use on the side...
   
  Resist!!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Hmm.  Some MA900s on the FS forum for $110.  I'm half-temped to buy them again at _that _price just to use on the side...
> 
> Resist!!


 
   
  Buy them!!!!


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I'm still interested in hearing the MA900 but I think it'd be better to have me at the end of the line so I can have some funds to pay for shipping by then.
> 
> Did I mention I was broke? C'mon... someone buy my Anniversaries!
> 
> ...


 

 I wish I had the money to buy the Annies, I have been wanting to own a pair since I heard them, sadly I'm broke too. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 The little extra spending money I had went to a tube amp. Now I am thinking of selling my Magni.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno man, that shipping cost. :/
> 
> I do want to though.


 
   
  Surprisingly, my concern about the shipping cost actually has less to do with the total weight and more to do with the bulk of the amp AND the headphones themselves.
   
  I was honestly surprised by how light the SRM-T1 is for its size, especially since it's a tube amp and all.
   
  Still, I can understand perfectly; that cost will add up both ways, especially with insurance.
   
  Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Hmm.  Some MA900s on the FS forum for $110.  I'm half-temped to buy them again at _that _price just to use on the side...
> 
> Resist!!


 
   
  Oh crap, I should've held off on buying the MA900 after all! $110 is a steal for a headphone that's already worth it at $150!


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> I wish I had the money to buy the Annies, I have been wanting to own a pair since I heard them, sadly I'm broke too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  And I wish you had the money...


----------



## Mitchb2020

What if i can't post a classified


----------



## chicolom

I think you have to be a member for a month before you can post classifieds, to reduce scammers.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Ah thats a bummer


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mitchb2020 said:


> Ah thats a bummer




Wait, you have the E17? I'd keep that and use it WITH whatever soundcard you get. The E17 is both an spdif and amp, both which Xonar cards should work with.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> Wait, you have the E17? I'd keep that and use it WITH whatever soundcard you get. The E17 is both an spdif and amp, both which Xonar cards should work with.




But im using the the funds from selling the dts and e17 to buy the x1s
Mainly so i can have drive able headphones and get a soundcard and e17 later


----------



## Vague

Been thinking of getting the AKG K702's for gaming and music but would it be good with the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD or would i need a desktop amp?


----------



## ShooK

Just wondering, has anyone ordered from this guy on ebay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-MA900-Stereo-Headphones-Full-Open-Type-/331005616312?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4d1178e0b8 I'm considering these but I'm not sure on the seller. Also, how much do these leak? The only headset/headphone I've had was the Audio technica a700 (closed) and the turtlebeach hpx (semi open) both of which don't leak much sound out at all... If anyone has any apple earpods, can you compare them to the sony headphones.. I just want to get an idea of how much they leak, for example, the earpods @100% would probably be the max for me for sound leakage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 is the leakiest headphone I've ever heard. THERE IS A GAPING HOLE BETWEEN THE DRIVER AND THE PADS. LOL.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Decided on this once i get some x1s


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> But im using the the funds from selling the dts and e17 to buy the x1s
> Mainly so i can have drive able headphones and get a soundcard and e17 later


 
   
  PM me, I've been tossing around the idea of an E17 as my work amp. We can talk details.


----------



## ShooK

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The MA900 is the leakiest headphone I've ever heard. THERE IS A GAPING HOLE BETWEEN THE DRIVER AND THE PADS. LOL.


 
  So a safer bet would be something like the dt 990 pro 250 and sennheiser 558s? I'm looking for something in the < $160 price range that doesn't leak across a closed room that is decently sized.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Which model dt990s


----------



## Mitchb2020

Also if im using the stx as an amp and dac
Should i get the Fidelio x1s or hd600s


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> Also if im using the stx as an amp and dac
> Should i get the Fidelio x1s or hd600s



Are you looking for immersion in gaming? Sub bass is nonexistent on the 600.


----------



## Mitchb2020

ethan7000 said:


> Are you looking for immersion in gaming? Sub bass is nonexistent on the 600.




So the hd 600s are the ad 700 s on steroids?


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> So the hd 600s are the ad 700 s on steroids?



I haven't heard the ad700, but if you are mostly gaming, the 600 is probably not the set for you. They're wonderful for classical and rich vocal music, but I wouldn't spend so much on a gaming set. The ad700 has been proven to be great for competitive gaming while the X1 is much more immersive.


----------



## benbenkr

Headphones that you can't go wrong with as all-rounders IMO:
   
  - Fidelio X1
  - Sennheiser HD558
  - CAL
  - Sony MA900
  - Beyer DT990
  - AKG K702 Annies
   
  Just a handful of headphones that will play nice across any type of material you throw at them. They're not the best at what they do, but certainly they are very good for whatever you want to listen to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT990 won't do quite as well with vocals, as they are heavy on the bass and treble. The rest are pretty solid.
I'd throw in the Koss Sportapro with the KSC75 clips in there as well.


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The DT990 won't do quite as well with vocals, as they are heavy on the bass and treble. The rest are pretty solid.
> I'd throw in the Koss Sportapro with the KSC75 clips in there as well.


 
   
  That's why I sold my DT 990 after my first tube amp stopped working, I only liked them on a warm tube amp, on the Magni they were thin, harsh, and lifeless. Another all-rounder I think is worth trying is the K240 MKII, only if you have a good system though. Thick, yummy, luscious goodness on my amp without ruining the sense of clarity at all, actually I get a greater sense of clarity and transparency out of these than my MA900.


----------



## gardenoflight

Hello there. Great amount of information in this thread, thanks a ton for putting it together guys. It's been super useful for someone new to the game like me. 
   
  After a fairly extensive search, I think I'm between a pair of Beyer's. My main goal setting out was to find something that would be an upgrade for the 668B in terms of sound stage and more importantly comfort. I'm fairly happy with the sound of those, but I just can't get used to them in terms of comfort, which is obviously non-ideal for gaming purposes. 
   
  So it's come down to the DT 770 Pro and DT 990 Pro. Open vs closed, essentially. 
   
Ideally, I would go with the closed headphone as I do play games quite late into the night when my fiance is sleeping in the same room and would prefer not to bother her. I guess my question is this; is the DT 990's sound stage orders of magnitude better than the 770's? I'm really not into competitive FPS games(I spend some time with them, but I'm more inclined towards single player games and usually move on quickly), so I'm looking at it more from an immersion perspective than positional cues. I would certainly love SOME positional cues, but it takes a lower priority over pure immersion. Basically, some bass bloat would be fine with me if the soundstage was big enough. Any perspective here would be very much appreciated. 
   
I'm also sort of tossing around getting an FA-003 clone, but they might be a bit too bass light for me and I've heard some fairly mixed things about how well they work for gaming.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





shook said:


> Just wondering, has anyone ordered from this guy on ebay? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-MA900-Stereo-Headphones-Full-Open-Type-/331005616312?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4d1178e0b8 I'm considering these but I'm not sure on the seller.
> 
> Also, how much do these leak?


 
   
  Yeah, that's where I got mine.  It's a little shady that he has a bunch of MA900s laying around, but whatever.  They're sealed.  The box on mine was scuffed up some though.  Good price on them.
   
  MA900s leak a lot, but so do most other open headphones.  AD700, X1, AKG x70x, Sennheiser HD5x8:  they all leak good amount. 
   
  It's similar to running laptop speakers at a very low to low volume.
    
  Quote:


benbenkr said:


> Headphones that you can't go wrong with as all-rounders IMO:
> 
> - Fidelio X1
> - Sennheiser HD558
> ...


 
   
  I probably cross DT990 off as well since it's a little more polarizing and makes a  less-safe choice.  IMO people should do their research on that one first.
   
  K712 Pro is a great all-rounder as well since it's essentially a variation on the Anniversaries sound.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno man, that shipping cost. :/
> 
> I do want to though.
> 
> Hey Evs, when you get them... try to see if the AD700 pads will fit. The MA900 has a very large diameter, and the AD700 pads may slip over...



Uhhhhm... Yeah. I would try that, but you know you endorsed my ad and the gaming kit sold very quickly after that. I got paid and sent it off, although I never heard if the buyer liked them or if he even got them (disappeared from Head-Fi, I guess that means he's end-game happy?)



change is good said:


> Didn't Evs sell his AD700?



What CiG said. Gosh, that's a terrible nickname. Uh... Goodies' been stalking me? No no no... Anyway, it's good I can at least count on Change.

I am interested in the Annies, at least a little bit (relatively so close to the Q701's tho), also think those K712's look AWESOME with the black/orange, but I really ought to be putting my next purchase towards a DAC and a surround processor. I may even put my pre-production E12 up for sale; despite my defense for the true sub-bass boost, I really only use it when another amp choice is inconvenient (only on like... The 5th or 6th charge cycle, and I'll use it even less once I can hook my receiver up again).

As much as I'm curious about the new Soundblaster cards and the thing they mentioned they're working on, I probably should just go back to what I know I loved and buy Nameless' Recon3D USB. I'm used to Dolby Headphone now, but I'm just not satisfied with it like I was with THX TSP, and who knows if there will be another console + PC cross-compatible device in the future, especially because of all the licensing problems or whatever that keep the same functionality out of a regular soundcard.

I kinda want to go analyze my M-100 for the review, but... I kinda want to play some Starcraft HotS instead. I haven't been playing FPS' this week because I had a falling out with the guy I've been playing CoD4 with for like 5 years; instead I'm enjoying the variety of unplayed (or at least unbeaten) games in my backlog. I could probably get some great surround sound testing out of Dishonored or Portal 2, but of course I only have a DSS right now and I'm not about to muck around on my day off getting that to work with onboard sound.

Edit: also want one of these WiFi media servers for portable devices like iPhones (and camera photo importing and battery booster), and I want one of these.


----------



## Change is Good

CiG... I think I've seen someone else call me that unless thats your second time doing so lol. It's catchy... but.... hate those thing 

And about the Annies... holla atcha' boi if you get that itch...


----------



## Evshrug

Actually, I just realized I can use my AppleTV (got it last week) to connect my music to my receiver's (assumedly superior) DAC from my computers or iPad. My Yamaha doesn't directly allow digital input from an iPod without buying a $70 proprietary dock (obsolete anyway because of the improved Lightning connector on all new iDevices), but obviously the AppleTV provides an HDMI connection and WiFi provides more than enough bandwidth for an uncompressed audio signal (unlike Bluetooth). So, maybe no need for iDo.

Edit: just thought it through. If I have a computer in my bedroom (either my Frankenmac PC which now is just a normal PC, or my new Mac Mini), and then the AppleTV + receiver combo in the den/living room area, there really isn't a point for me to get an iDo. So, if I sold my E12, I could put those funds towards... whatever I want.

Change, I'm like the Hulk... I am always trying to resist and repress the itch, but the truth is I always have that itch.


----------



## Change is Good

Hulk, scratch and buy! Woops... I meant... SMASH!


----------



## Evshrug

LOL Okay Iron Man!
You saying I might just enjoy it if I went for it?
I dunno if I can keep up with Chico, as you know his is an expensive journey  My job is great and pays better than I expected, but I gotta keep my shirt on sometimes.


...
Besides, I don't own a pair of purple, rip-proof shorts, in case HULK GETS MAD (LUST ENVY)!


----------



## Evshrug

Is it narcissistic that I really enjoy my last post? Able to mix head-Fi and 4 Avengers/Hulk references, makes me happy. I'm having Pun, just go with it.
^_~

Nameless, how much again for your Recon3D? Or would you honestly recommend a Creative soundcard instead (you see the Thief 4 trailer?)?


----------



## Change is Good

I enjoyed the jump from the Q701 very much, myself... because of it's warmer signature.
   
  Some may argue that you'd be better off saving money by just ordering the memory pads, but I am enjoying the comfort much more with the flat headband. That gun metal grey is sick, too.
   
  By the way, those trading cards were in Coulson's locker.


----------



## Change is Good

That damn Fury! Always lying to us!!!


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, the look is indeed sick, but I'm already decently happy with the storm trooper looks and baby seatbelt wrap on the headband, and an extra $130 over what I paid for mine... I could just as easily match/unify with the matte-black & orange looks of my M-100 after waiting for the K712 price to come down. I'm not saying I'm not thinking about it, the Annies are very good and a collector's item besides (just like Coleson's Capt'n America cards), I'm just saying I gotta think about it.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> I mean, the look is indeed sick, but I'm already decently happy with the storm trooper looks and baby seatbelt wrap on the headband, and an extra $130 over what I paid for mine... I could just as easily match/unify with the matte-black & orange looks of my M-100 after waiting for the K712 price to come down. I'm not saying I'm not thinking about it, the Annies are very good and a collector's item besides (just like Coleson's Capt'n America cards), I'm just saying I gotta think about it.


 
   
  Hey, you know me... genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist trying to influence you to live on the edge a little...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Hey, you know me... genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist trying to influence you to live on the edge a little...


 
   
  Stop listening to my voicemail message!


----------



## Mitchb2020

How would the Fidelio x1s pair with the stx
As i understand the xonar cards have an output impedance of 10 ohms and the x1s have a high impedance cord


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Stop listening to my voicemail message!


 
   
  Haha!
   
  How you been enyoyin those M80s since you posted your first impressions?


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Haha!
> 
> How you been enyoyin those M80s since you posted your first impressions?


 
   
  Very much so. Currently running them directly off my iPad and watching Netflix. Nothing fancy, but they're certainly excellent portables. Going to give some more gaming time Tuesday evening when the new Borderlands 2 DLC is out, again with the BoomPro cable. But for today and tomorrow they're being used at work.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Nameless, how much again for your Recon3D? Or would you honestly recommend a Creative soundcard instead (you see the Thief 4 trailer?)?


 
   
  $70 shipped, as an initial offer.
   
  The internal sound cards don't even have Mac drivers, if you're taking the Mac Pro or Hackintosh route. I had almost forgotten that part being of particular use to you.
   
  As for Thief 4...everything I've heard about it has basically been bad news, to say the least.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *AxelCoris*
> 
> Very much so. Currently running them directly off my iPad and watching Netflix. Nothing fancy, but they're certainly excellent portables. Going to give some more gaming time Tuesday evening when the new Borderlands 2 DLC is out, again with the BoomPro cable. But for today and tomorrow they're being used at work.


 
   
  Nice!
   
  Is there a way to get that boompro mic to fit on the SE MDs with an angled adapter or something? And if so... any idea on where to get an adapter of sort?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> As for Thief 4...everything I've heard about it has basically been bad news, to say the least.


 
   
  I'm actually looking forward to The Evil Within by Bethesda. I'm really looking forward to what they will do for the horror genre this generation.


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Nice!
> 
> Is there a way to get that boompro mic to fit on the SE MDs with an angled adapter or something? And if so... any idea on where to get an adapter of sort?


 
   
  I'm currently looking for this exact kind of adapter. As soon as something reasonable shows up I'm going to buy it and give it a try. If I can find a good angled adapter then I feel this will replace my Modmic. I'll probably end up selling the Modmic included with my white Q701, assuming the buyer wants the pair braided together to create a shorter length.
   
  However, should I follow through with my plans to upgrade my Mad Dogs to Alpha Dogs...


----------



## AxelCloris

Quote: 





change is good said:


> I'm actually looking forward to The Evil Within by Bethesda. I'm really looking forward to what they will do for the horror genre this generation.


 
   
For horror gaming, I kickstarted U55 - End of the Line. One of the biggest reasons is the following quote:
   
"The game features binaural sound effects especially intended for stereo headsets. These are designed to support the disturbing, adrenaline-driven atmosphere and enhance your perception."
   
There are some interesting titles coming out for the horror genre, including Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs which is out on the 10th.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> $70 shipped, as an initial offer.
> 
> The internal sound cards don't even have Mac drivers, if you're taking the Mac Pro or Hackintosh route. I had almost forgotten that part being of particular use to you.
> 
> As for Thief 4...everything I've heard about it has basically been bad news, to say the least.




Yep, I love me some Mac, still prefer it and find it more reliable with less maintenance, I even found that for some reason when I had a dual-boot system that the stock Win8 install downloaded far slower than the Mac side (10x as fast, must be Ethernet driver issue or something with what came with Win8 Pro), but now that I have a legit Mac in a separate box... it's not as important. Part of me says "Stick with your plan you made 6 months ago! Get an internal soundcard for the PC and just use SC on the receiver with your console!" But I'm still living with the parents, trying to find a roommate who won't screw me over, and currently I have some space and setup limitations.

Anyway, just beat Heart of the Swarm (recommended, most fun I've had in an RTS!), so I'm going to eat something and pick an Xbox game to test the DSS + M-100 combo some more. Write notes. What do you guys think, some Halo 4/Reach, Batman Arkham City, Alan Wake?


AxelCloris,
The binaural audio looks promising, but to be honest, I'd turn off the binaural "beats" feature. I can tell the difference between game and life, but some things push too far, and I think I'd be too sensitive to that stuff based on my personal history with trying to use similar techniques, EEG feedback, and etc to have a positive mental effect... I don't like to be fully freaked out, it tends to stick with me longer than I'm comfortable with.
Also, seems like the audio is the main creative effort in that game, haven't seen much else besides general setting. Story, gameplay, graphics? They mention Occulus Rift, but that's about it.
May throw a few bucks at it anyway, just to support better audio in games.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> I'm currently looking for this exact kind of adapter. As soon as something reasonable shows up I'm going to buy it and give it a try. If I can find a good angled adapter then I feel this will replace my Modmic. I'll probably end up selling the Modmic included with my white Q701, assuming the buyer wants the pair braided together to create a shorter length.
> 
> However, should I follow through with my plans to upgrade my Mad Dogs to Alpha Dogs...


 
   
  I'd be interested in that modmic when the time comes for you to sell it.
   
  As for the Alphas... yea it's still a toss up for me. It all depends on how big of a soundstage Dan was able to create on them... because if it's better than good than I will only be having one pair of home cans then. Still, I may just keep the MDs and go with the K712 PRO down the line. I'll wait until Dan starts doing the upgrade process and make my decision by then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think after the revelation that is the MA900 for me, I won't be buying any other full sized headphone that doesn't match it's weight and comfort. So basically, unless Sony makes a higher end model with similar design (kind of like the F1, SA5000, Qualia) with an improved, but similar tonal balance, I don't have any real reason to upgrade from the MA900.

It is the everyday, well balanced, multi-purpose headphone for me.

Better sound is worthless if you're constantly missing the comfort of something cheaperthat still sounds great.

I put on my X1 for an hour, and then I just wanna go back to the MA900...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think after the revelation that is the MA900 for me, I won't be buying any other full sized headphone that doesn't match it's weight and comfort. So basically, unless Sony makes a higher end model with similar design (kind of like the F1, SA5000, Qualia) with an improved, but similar tonal balance, I don't have any real reason to upgrade from the MA900.
> 
> It is the everyday, well balanced, multi-purpose headphone for me.
> 
> ...


 
   
  Are you sayin the X1 will be up for sale soon?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do enjoy the sound of the X1 a bit more for my taste in music, but in the end, it's whether I'll keep the X1 for just music use and heavy action movies and games (which I still think the MA900 does well), or get some of my money back and apply it to something else like a desktop dac/amp (looking at the Nuforce Icon DAC which is new, amp/dac, and powerful, but no optical in).

Though I need a new TV/monitor, so I could go for that...


----------



## Change is Good

All those are plausible options for you, my friend. If you find yourself using only one headphone over 90% of the time than why keep both? I'm at 60-40 with my MDs and Anniversaries. Though the last couple days I've been using the MDs 100% of the time. Anniversaries are sitting in a box waiting for a new home.
   
  So how about now I'm venturing into looking at the HE500 to match my MDs (possibly Alphas in future). I'm thinking about saving the funds I get from the Anniversary and going that route in a few months. But then I will have to upgrade my equipment as well... sheesh! Doubt I'll do it... but it's a thought if the funds come around.
   
  You heard the HE500?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, the weight has always put me off. Now with my owning of the MA900, I'd probably be even more critical on headphone comfort. Comfort reigns supreme, and heavy headphones have no more place in my home. If it weren't an issue, I would've just been happy with the LCD2. I love that headphone's sound. But man, it's just not the most comfortable thing...


----------



## Change is Good

I'm guessing it's comfort would be exactly the same as the HE400 on your review, correct?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE400 is lighter in weight.

The HE-4 is even lighter and it's about as heavy as I'd like nowadays (it's actually incredibly comfortable).


I'd definitely go for the TV/monitor first, as the MA900 sounds great off the E17. The desktop amp/dac is more of a guilty pleasure that I have no real need for.

I'm trying to write in my review now. I just woke up, and I feel like finishing it up. Hopefully to send out the MA900 on Tuesday. I really don't want to now, lol, but I'll do it for you guys.


You might get spoiled by the MA900's comfort and decide to sell off everything else and be happy with just that. 

Seriously. Until Sony makes a higher end version of it, I do NOT see myself buying anything else that's heavier or even just a little less than godly in comfort. The X1 is quite comfy, and yet, next to the MA900, it may as well be mediocre.


----------



## Change is Good

Make sure I'm last on the list because like I've mentioned my hands are tied until mid month.
   
  As for the HE500... I think subconsciously the size _really is_ what's been putting me off, too. What would you do if you had the MDs and $300-$400. Would you keep them and get the K712 PRO or upgrade them to the Alphas. Pretend you don't have the Anniversary, ok? I think you're going to say you would just keep what you have if so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
  Edit: and pretend you don't have the MA900 or X1 too


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bah, the MA900 has spoiled me. I'm of the type to wanna sell off everything and get the MA900 if I were in your shoes. It's left that kind of impression on me.

But if you're going by an SQ standpoint, I'd go for the K712 Pro, sell off the MD, or just keep them for closed applications.

I don't really have a need for closed headphones, no matter how amazing they are. IF I was gonna get a closed headphone, you know it'd be the D7000, or something REALLY portable with cloth/velour pads. In fact, I kind of really wanna get the Momentum on ears.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea those momentum on ears are nice. You check those new Onkyos I linked? Slightly V-shaped sound, also.
   
  I sold my M500s a couple weeks back. Needed the funds...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Onkyos are on ear, closed and pleather. Insta-fail for me.


I think you're overthinking the improvement from the Annie to the K712. I have a feeling it's just not gonna be worth the money loss. But that's just me. 

I still have the HP-800. No one is biting, so I may just give it away to the aunt, and ask for the SLYR back (actually have the Slyr at home atm). I feel I'll get use out of the SLYR once the PS4 comes out.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> The Onkyos are on ear, closed and pleather. Insta-fail for me.
> 
> 
> I think you're overthinking the improvement from the Annie to the K712. I have a feeling it's just not gonna be worth the money loss. But that's just me.


 
   
  After an extensive session with the MDs I can see the peak in the upper mids chico is talking about... and has led me to prefer my MDs overall, now. If the K712 fixes that... then I can justify the loss. But that's just me... too 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  It all started when I asked you which had the more forward mids... and coexisted with chico's further impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That upper mid peak is still there. I dunno just how different that's gonna be. That's an AKG thing.

If I ever wanted the Annie again, I would've went for it. I would prefer the more intimate mids that it has over the more pushed back presentation. Hell, that's why I still prefer the HD650 over the Annies for it's mids. The HD650 is intimate and up close...


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I know it will still be there. What I'm saying is if the difference is subtle enough then I'm for the improvement. Even if its ever so slight.
   
  But you're right. To someone who has had neither and is deciding which to chose... the differences won't matter unless they are basing their preferences off another headphone they have (which is in my case).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only thing I preferred on the MD over the Annie was the bass. That's it. There's just nothing I ever found wrong on the Annie. Ever. The only thing that interests me about the K712 Pro is that the pads are deeper. That is one thing I missed about the Q701 pads vs the Annie pads. Those deep pads are probably my favorite out of all the headphones I ever worn. If the Slyr's pads had a larger diameter, they'd probably be right there too.

Of course, if you don't own either, and it comes down to Annie prices, then and only then would I feel the K712 is worth it over the Annies.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> If I ever wanted the Annie again, I would've went for it.


 
   
  It's all good, man. I'm sure they will sell soon enough.
   
  I'm actually curious as to how big the soundstage on the Alpha Dogs is. If it's wide enough with a sense of air and pin point accuracy then there is no need for the K712 PRO. The bass adjustment on it will also allow me to sell my equipment and get a much stronger amp that is better suited for planars.
   
  The bass adjustment will also be a plus when gaming and watching movies. Turn in up while watching a Sci-Fi thriller and tone it down when I feel like jumping in the battlefield.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hear the bass adjustment isn't going to be something you want to constantly mess with. It's gonna be a bitch to adjust on a frequent basis due to it not being easily accessible and adjustable.

As far as soundstage... I dunno. I love the MD, but I just don't see the soundstage ever impressing me on the AD. For a closed headphone, sure, but I have my doubts that it'll touch open headphone soundstage.

That and I just love an open headphone's breathable nature.


----------



## Change is Good

Ahh... then I will just be keeping my MDs and going for the K712 then.
   
  As for what you said about the MD compared to the Annie... different preferences, my friend. I have no issue about the Annie except for the slight edginess in its mids. And that has only come up recently after extensively comparing the two. Overall the Annie's sound is better to me except for the slight peak as I mentioned. It was my favorite until then...
   
  I believe the K712 will fix that, IMO... along with the dense pads issue as you mentioned. While comparing I then noticed my huge ears touch the drivers (not a big issue unless you obsess over it).
   
  Edit: But like I've said these are issues that went unnoticed for two months. We both can agree that the Annie at my price is a better value then the K712 at its current price. I just have OCD and a different preference... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  As for the closed vs open denate; I prefer to have my music closed rather than so open. I guess it's me preferring to be in a studio rather than a concert. The only time I prefer an open sound is when gaming, watching movies, and listening to classical and jazz.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I hear the AD bass adjustment is more for setting and then forgetting. People who signed up for the demo were complaining that they didn't want the bass adjustment to be touched to hear the AD in it's neutral state. I was like "Hell, I know for damn sure I'm gonna be messing with it, because I wanna hear what the AD is capable of."


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I hear the AD bass adjustment is more for setting and then forgetting. People who signed up for the demo were complaining that they didn't want the bass adjustment to be touched to hear the AD in it's neutral state. I was like "Hell, I know for damn sure I'm gonna be messing with it, because I wanna hear what the AD is capable of."


 
   
  I wanted no bass screw adjustments for the touring Alpha Dog because people later in the tour might not hear what the stock, factory-tuned Alpha Dog will sound like. This unit is travelling internationally too, so it wouldn't be courteous for people outside of the USA to receive an altered unit when the point of the tour is for people to hear it as if it was from the factory. I bet people who have already heard the Alpha Dog at meets didn't adjust the bass screws for that exact reason.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I hear the AD bass adjustment is more for setting and then forgetting. People who signed up for the demo were complaining that they didn't want the bass adjustment to be touched to hear the AD in it's neutral state. I was like "Hell, I know for damn sure I'm gonna be messing with it, because I wanna hear what the AD is capable of."


 
   
  Well, that scratches the AD off my list, then. Not because of what it _can't_ do, but because the bass _can _be adjusted I know my OCDish behind will be ruining it every other month... resulting in more money in Dan's pocket for adjusting it back to stock. No no no... they won't be getting me like that!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> I wanted no bass screw adjustments for the touring Alpha Dog because people later in the tour might not hear what the stock, factory-tuned Alpha Dog will sound like. This unit is travelling internationally too, so it wouldn't be courteous for people outside of the USA to receive an altered unit when the point of the tour is for people to hear it as if it was from the factory. I bet people who have already heard the Alpha Dog at meets didn't adjust the bass screws for that exact reason.




It's as simple as Dan giving an image or something as a point of reference of where the AD is in it's default state.

If I'm gonna demo $600 headphones, I for damn sure want to test what it's capable of. If people are gonna be that OCD about demoing a headphone, they should just buy it. It's an adjustment, not a permanent one. I'm sure Dan will have guidelines on how to adjust it, where it's at it's most neutral, it's most bassy, etc.

Being courteous has nothing to do with it. I doubt Dan won't have some guideline.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn, as if on cue, it seems the mid bass on the X1 is giving me bass fatigue.

I mean, it was always borderline on being problematic (it has nothing to do with how much of it there is, but how the bass impact sounds), but now I'm noticing that it's giving me headaches. As if I needed a real reason to sell the X1.

Again, I even got the same bass fatigue even from the Q701 (the Annie didn't because the bass is broader and fuller) and DT990 Pro, and other headphones that don't even consitute as bassy. The Pro 900 and XB500 both have MUCH more mid bass, and neither give me bass fatigue. Meh...

I'm wondering if it's a specific region of mid bass that my ears just can't handle well....


----------



## Change is Good

See what happens when you get used to one sound over the other? I bet those mids on the X1 sound recessed, now?

This is why I try to keep my cans to have similar tones (with one having a bigger soundstage for gaming/movies/classical/jazz and the other being closed for better bass impact).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I'm used to wildly varying sound signatures (I've always preferred to have two headohones, one with a balanced tone, one with an aggressive one). Y

The X1 has always had some slight mid recession to me. But yeah, next to the MA900, the mids are lacking.

I have always had some mild bass fatigue from the X1, but it was borderline. But now, I'm really noticing it.

Guess I have to add it to my list of headphones that I personally can't use.

I'm REALLY headache-prone. It's hereditary. It's a shame. Because there are probably a million headphones that sound great but I couldn't personally handle. I'm gonna have to start looking at headphone with linear bass. That or target where exactly my problem lies.

Probably one reason I loved the D7000. The bass was strong in the lowest depths, but mid bass was relatively in line with the mids and not overwhelming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Since I have the Mixamp for 2 years now I thought I'd finally pair it with the HD 800 and throw in a round of Killzone 2. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At 1 o'clock it's already loud enough for gaming and sounds good actually with excellent imaging, positioning and the soundstage is amazing as always. I wish more console shooters would have rendered as well as the KZ series with real elevation.
   
  This is just a short info about how loud it gets, though of course this is by no means an indication how authority, control, balance and clarity "measure."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the Mixamp has never lacked in volume for me with anything other than the HE-4 for me (lol, the HE-4 ate up the Mixamp like nothing else). Only when you add in voice chat did the volume fall off a cliff.

Not ideal and there is much better, but the Mixamp gets the job done alone for most gaming use with any dynamic headphone, even the 600ohm Beyers, though it does clip at times with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys, selling my X1, if anyone is interested.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/679783/f-s-philips-fidelio-x1

Comes included with that expensive low resistance silver cable.

It pains me to sell these, as they are basically the ultimate headphone for my preference in sound, but I have an aversion for specific frequencies in the mid bass section which I can't handle, even off headphones with less bass, like the AKG Q701. The X1 hits me right where it induces headaches. This is a PERSONAL, so don't think it'd be a problem for the rest of you. I've used headphones with much stronger mid bass which don't bother me.

I've been battling with that bass fatigue since I've bought the X1, but it's won the battle.

Looks like for now, I'll be downgrading to just the MA900.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I think after the revelation that is the MA900 for me, I won't be buying any other full sized headphone that doesn't match it's weight and comfort.
> 
> Better sound is worthless if you're constantly missing the comfort of something cheaperthat still sounds great.


 
   
   
  Call me crazy, but I prefer the long-term comfort on the K712 over the MA900.  I know it's counter intuitive, but let me explain...
   
  The MA900 pads aren't exactly soft and fluffy like the velour on the other too.  They're not scratchy, but I _am_ conscious of them.  The material seems to "grip" my skin and hair a little more when I move, which makes me want to adjust them when that happens.  They also have that unique and unusual open design, but it comes with a smaller pad surface area.  YES, I know the MA900s barely have any clamp, but regardless I'm always more aware of there being that smaller "ring" around my ear - more so than the larger fatter pads which blend in more.  Lastly, my ears are touching the drivers more with the MA900.  The K712 is like the Q701 angled pads where it either doesn't touch or it's so slight that I don't really notice. 
   
  The bottom line is: the K712 disappears more on _my head_, I'm less conscious of it being there, and I don't feel OCD to keep adjusting it.  That's true despite the MA900s lighter weight, weaker clamp, and more open cups.  For every step forward the MA900 has for comfort, there was also a small step back for me.
   
   
  This is *just MY personal experience*.  I accept that I'm an outlier and for others the MA900 can/will be the most comfortable.  So take it with grains of salt. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Regardless, even if the MA900s _were _more comfortable, the sound quality improvement on the others would still be worth it for me, as their comfort is already amazing and more than enough.  I can (and already did - for science) use the K712s for 8 hours straight with no issues - isn't _that _good enough? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
   
  So for me, better sound _comfort _is worthless if you're constantly missing the comfort _sound_ of something that still sounds _feels _great.
   
    
  Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> You might get spoiled by the MA900's comfort and decide to sell off everything else and be happy with just that.





> I'm of the type to wanna sell off everything and get the MA900 if I were in your shoes. It's left that kind of impression on me.


 
   
   
  I sort of doubt that will happen for Change, since it didn't happen for me.  And If he did that, he would no longer be following in my gear-footsteps!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  The main sonic issue that kept coming up for me with the MA900 was that for_ acoustic music_ like classical and Jazz, the timbre and refinement just wasn't quite there.  With electronic genres and what not, the MA900s could sound very nearly as good as the others, and I could probably live with them.  When I switched to something like classical though, that's _hyper critical_ of a headphone's timbre and refinement, the MA900 just couldn't keep up.  The others were still on another level.  I couldn't justify keeping the MA900s when I knew they would never sound as good with those genres.  If you don't listen to a lot of acoustic stuff it probably won't be an issue though.
   
   
  Quote: 





change is good said:


> After an extensive session with the MDs I can see the peak in the upper mids chico is talking about...
> 
> If the K712 fixes that... then I can justify the loss. But that's just me... too
> 
> ...


 
   
  I'm the same. 
   
  It sounds like your on the right track_ (which I've conveniently laid out for you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)._
   
  The slightly peak and edgy mids on the Anniversary was one of the main things that pushed me towards the K712.   When comparing them, I could hear the K712s were a bit less dry and peaky in that area.  Once I'd heard that I couldn't _un-hear_ it.  I know the edgier mids can be nice with female vocals, but overall I prefer the K712's approach. 
   
  The were a couple other things on the K712 that won me over, like the the greater overall body to the sound, the slightly more natural timbre and less fatiguing overall sound, and the deeper pads with their extra comfort the slightly more open sound.  I I made a pros & cons list, and the last holdout for the Anniversary was the more forward air.  If I could have the K712s signature with greater air, it would be awesome, but I can't.  I got over it though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're crazy and WRONG. 

But really though, hey Chico, which has more treble, the K712 or MA900?

The X1 sounded veiled next to the MA900 at least when jumping directly from one to the other, lol.


And no way, the MA900 is <33333333333


----------



## chicolom

Glad to see your not letting subjectivity get in the way 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Hmmm...about the treble.   I heard the Anniversaries and X1 having more _extension _on either end -  the MA900's _upper _treble and _sub _bass were both less present to me.  I heard the others as being more fleshed out on both ends while the MA900s freq. range was bit more compressed.  (BTW, that lesser extension, along with the forward mids, was why I was saying they sounded _slightly _"n" shaped.)
   
  Greater extension doesn't mean _more treble _though.  I remember the MA900s occasionally sounding a little sharp, but I didn't dig to deep to find out what was causing it. 
   
  I don't think the X1s sounded veiled next to the MA900s though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your dirty, DIRTY ears were causing it. :veryevil:


----------



## chicolom

Some say I have GOLDEN EARS.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Dt990s 275 au free shippen to aus and usa
E17 85 au free shippen aus and usa 
All shippen shall be tracked 

Are the good prices?


----------



## Mitchb2020

Too be clear im not technically selling
But inquiring as to what i should price them


----------



## Mitchb2020




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What 990s do you have? The Premium models should go for around $250 used, and the Pros for around $140 (it's very cheap here). The E17 for around $85 sounds fair.

About 90% done with the MA900 review... I'll probably finish tomorrow.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> What 990s do you have? The Premium models should go for around $250 used, and the Pros for around $140 (it's very cheap here). The E17 for around $85 sounds fair.
> 
> About 90% done with the MA900 review... I'll probably finish tomorrow.




Well i can't make a classified so I'll put them on ebay premium 600 ohm
260aud + 15 shipping to usa
Fiio 75aud + 15 shipping to usa


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... that's probably too steep for American buyers, though it's the shipping that kills you.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... that's probably too steep for American buyers, though it's the shipping that kills you.



For the headphones its 256 usd including shipping 
Fiio is 80 usd including shipping


----------



## Mitchb2020

I just want them gone so i can get me a pair of x1s


----------



## Mitchb2020

I've seen a pair of dt990s on here for 250 but they were old looking and a little sweaty


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey Mitch, you know there is an edit button if you have more to say in your posts, so you don't make multiple posts in succession without others replying. 

It's the little pencil looking icon on the bottom left of your posts.





Ok, so I lied. The MA900 review is nearly done.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Yeah sorry about that 
Night guys


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good night, Mitch. 


It's done guys! Please let me know of any mistakes and corrections needed. There's bound to be a few. :rolleyes:

P.S. I FREAKING HATE AMAZON AND THEIR INABILITY TO LET ME POST A SEVERELY MODIFIED VERSION OF MY REVIEW. What.

edit: OMG, I think it flagged my review for 'BASSHEAD'. :rolleyes:




> *Sony MA900*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Glad to see your not letting subjectivity get in the way
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I notice that sharpness as well on the MA900. The MA900 seems to have some grain in the upper midrange and treble.


----------



## ethan7000

Great review.


----------



## ethan7000

Sorry double post. Phone acting up


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I think after the revelation that is the MA900 for me, I won't be buying any other full sized headphone that doesn't match it's weight and comfort. So basically, unless Sony makes a higher end model with similar design (kind of like the F1, SA5000, Qualia) with an improved, but similar tonal balance, I don't have any real reason to upgrade from the MA900.
> 
> It is the everyday, well balanced, multi-purpose headphone for me.
> 
> ...



First time I remember hearing you mention this flaw of the X1. Interesting though.
You may recall, I found what I felt was perfect clamp with my AD700 with a rubber band between the rings, slight bend to the headband bars, and breaking in of the earpads. So I understand what you say about comfort (and soundstage) being very significant for you, after I got the Q701 I liked them but I had a hard time letting the AD700 go just because of comfort (and ease of amping setup... Didn't need an extra one). In the end though, slight improvement in SQ won out for me, and that thing I'm still not sure where from it comes but that toe-tapping feeling of rhythm or just the... I dunno, soul of the song? More involving.



chicolom said:


> ...
> Regardless, even if the MA900s _were_ more comfortable, the sound quality improvement on the others would still be worth it for me, as their comfort is already amazing and more than enough.  I can (and already did - for science) use the K712s for 8 hours straight with no issues - isn't _that_ good enough?
> 
> ...
> ...




If you like 'em so much, do more testing. For Science.
You monster.

So I see comparisons to the Annies with the K712. How about the Q701? Peaky mids? Natural Timbre? How about "roundness" of the soundstage, does the depth of the soundstage extend out in front of you evenly with the sides, or is it still kinda oval like the Q701 (vs the AD700, and I guess the MA900)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, i mentioned the X1's bass being borderline uncomfortable to me before. I wasn't exactly vocal about it, but after having neglected it for a few weeks and jumping back into it, the the bass headaches just started coming in. I'm sure you've seen me mention the same about the Q701 and 990 Pro before. It just happens to me with varying headphones. The worst offender was the Koss UR40. Jesus man. I couldn't use it for more than a few minutes before I wanted to chuck them acorss the room. The DT770/600ohm I got was nearly as bad. It hurt my head almost immediately. I just have a real horrible sensitivity to certain bass frequencies.


To be fair, even the MA900 causes some of the same fatigue.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I had this with the Signature DJ. While being so much more better than the Pro 900 and a bassier Sig Pro the bass somehow overpowered me in the end in some regions across its spectrum. It was pretty good for games albeit the smaller soundstage than the Fostex but that bass annoyed me very soon. Sold it today.
   
  While TH-900 can slam very hard as well the bass is fast, very detailed and has a "shape". It's never annoying. 
  Same for the HD 800 except it slams less but has a very detailed bass section that extends very deep.


----------



## 3t3rnity

Thanks for this great review. I've been reading about the MA900 for a while now, and it seems they are just what I've been looking for.
   
  I only have one question... I was thinking of getting a Modmic or something else with these, will there be a problem with the mic picking up the sound leakeage?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> I notice that sharpness as well on the MA900. The MA900 seems to have some grain in the upper midrange and treble.


 
   
  That may explain the relative lack of transparency.
   
  But at least the grain isn't noticeably over the vocals, in my experience-something the HE-400 and SR-202 suffer from, as I've stated numerous times.


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





namelesspfg said:


> That may explain the relative lack of transparency.
> 
> But at least the grain isn't noticeably over the vocals, in my experience-something the HE-400 and SR-202 suffer from, as I've stated numerous times.


 

 Yea, I noticed a lack of transparency too and the upper registers are likely the cause, probably my biggest complaint about the sound, otherwise fantastic headphones and my go to headphone for games, movies, and long-term music listening due to comfort, laid-back sound, great soundstage, imaging, and linearity.
   
  I didn't like the HE-400 when I heard it, would rather get the K702 Annie/K712 or HD 600/650 for that price.


----------



## chicolom

Great review MLE!  
  I like the term _"__absolute comfort legend"_. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




   
   
  I personally thought the Anniversaries were more fun and immersive for gaming as they had greater body and were more grounded sounding.  The MA900s sounded a tad thin and floaty.  I do think MA900 is a more immersive than the Q701 in terms of signature, but not quite on par with the greater bodied Anniversary.   Another thing I noticed with them being so open is that they seem to lack some of the decay, reverb, and ambience of "sealed" headphones - which detracted from their immersion some.  Less ambience meant I felt a bit more detachment from the physical spaces and rooms in a game.  I agree that the mids are a highlight on the MA900, but I personally found them to almost be _too much of a focus_.  The X1s achieve a fun and immersive sound by pushing their mids back just a bit to open up room for other things and create some of that "U" shaped home theater sound.  The MA900s have more difficulty with that as the mids are always forward, always clear sounding, and can't be ignored.  I think too much midrange can hurt immersion in the same way that too much bass can hurt competitive gaming. 
   
  Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> I notice that sharpness as well on the MA900. The MA900 seems to have some grain in the upper midrange and treble.


 
   
  It could be some of the grain gets abrasive sounding, but I think there was actually a bit of glare somewhere too.  There was a specific spot that would jump out louder than on my other headphones and would sometimes limit how loud I could turn up the MA900.
   
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> If you like 'em so much, do more testing. For Science.
> You monster.
> 
> So I see comparisons to the Annies with the K712. How about the Q701? Peaky mids? Natural Timbre? How about "roundness" of the soundstage, does the depth of the soundstage extend out in front of you evenly with the sides, or is it still kinda oval like the Q701 (vs the AD700, and I guess the MA900)?


 
   
  The Q701 has drier peakier mids than the Anniversary, which in turn has drier peakier mids than the K712.  The main issue with the Q701s timbre is the mids being a bit too thin and dry.   The Anniversary fixes that some and gives them greater body and smoothness.  The K712 takes it slightly further, but not too much.  I personally prefer the timbre on both the Anniversary and K712 to the Q701.  Between the Anniversary and K712, a slight edge to the K712.
   
  The K712 doesn't change the soundstage too much.  I think it will still be oval shaped.  I can't remember the AD700s soundstage depth.  I thought the MA900 was oval shaped too.  Depth is tricky to pull of.  The T1s and HD800s had nice depth 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
   
  Quote: 





3t3rnity said:


> I only have one question... I was thinking of getting a Modmic or something else with these, will there be a problem with the mic picking up the sound leakeage?


 
   
  I doubt you will have any problems as the mic will be out_ in front_, not _behind _the headphones where leakage is the highest.


----------



## miceblue

This is probably a stupid question, but has anyone here used their headphone system with a Nintendo Wii? I've been using the Wii with the built-in speakers on my TV since forever and I'm actually pretty curious to see how it sounds with my headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.


 
   
  ^This
   
  I use the rca inputs with my cable box to watch sports sometimes. Not as good as the digital version but well enough to still enjoy surround sound to make you feel like your at the ballpark.


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> Great review MLE!
> I like the term _"__absolute comfort legend"_.
> 
> 
> ...


 

 True, they do seem to have some glare, so maybe it's the combination of glare and grain that gives them a bit of an edge at times.
   
  I really want to get the K712 sometime, I always loved the AKG sound and found they tend to have great timbre. I agree the Q701 is a bit too thin sounding, and it has an unfocused center soundstage. I would love something fairly similar to the thick luscious sound the K240 has but better, the K712 seems like best option in terms of an upgrade in the AKG camp. Going to wait until the price drops and I can actually afford it.
   
  I noticed depth is hard to pull off and it's something I noticed Sennheiser tends to do well. The T1 did have some nice depth, so did the HD 800, sadly every time I heard the HD 800, it gave me a headache and inner ear pain, so I have to cross it off my list for when I eventually get an uber.


----------



## miceblue

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
  Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I used to plug in the Wii to the Mixamp pro's rca input (pre-2013). You could get the Pro Logic II variant of Dolby Headphone that way. I liked it well enough. Not as much as the legit DD to DH conversion, but certainly doable.


 
  Hm mmk. I was just going to try plugging the RCA cables to the SRS-2170. XD
  My TV is dead at the moment, so I'll have to hook it up to something else.


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe the K712 price will drop, but I'd need it closer to $300 before I'll consider it. I'm curious, but I know I don't have the *need.* Still wish I could try the DT880, I wonder about the transparency and treble. And comfort.


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Maybe the K712 price will drop, but I'd need it closer to $300 before I'll consider it. I'm curious, but I know I don't have the *need.* Still wish I could try the DT880, I wonder about the transparency and treble. And comfort.


 
   
  The lowest I've seen the Anniversaries go for brand new was $350 at Razordog so I doubt the K712 goes lower. Maybe a couple years from now...
   
  If _used_ then I can see that price being available a few months from now. The lowest AE I've seen in the forums is $325. Going rate I guess. BTW, local buyer bought mine for that price today. YAY!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



   
  I _have_ seen a K712 for $375 in the classifieds, lately...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> I really want to get the K712 sometime, I always loved the AKG sound and found they tend to have great timbre. I agree the Q701 is a bit too thin sounding, and it has an unfocused center soundstage. I would love something fairly similar to the thick luscious sound the K240 has but better, the K712 seems like best option in terms of an upgrade in the AKG camp. Going to wait until the price drops and I can actually afford it.


 
   
  If you like the K240, I think the K712 will be a pretty natural upgrade.  I did a little review of the K240 in comparison to the Anniversary: http://www.head-fi.org/t/664045/akg-k240-studio-comparison-review
   
  The K712 moves slightly closer to the K240 in sound since it's a tad lusher and fuller than the Anniversary.
   
  Quote: 





evshrug said:


> Maybe the K712 price will drop, but I'd need it closer to $300 before I'll consider it.


 
   
  Razor dog has them for 399, and _may _eventually drop them to ~350 after several months have passed.  I think that's as low as the Anniversaries ever got.  They started going back up recently (I assume from the "limited edition" status and supply slowly running down).  Same story for Amazon's pricing: http://camelcamelcamel.com/AKG-K702-65th-Anniversary-Edition/product/B00A8LZ5GU
   
  I doubt the K712 will drop too much though, as AKG now has made-in-China K702s as well as Q701s.  I think part of their "Pro" branding is to signify that it's the line that's still made in Austria, and I assume they will try to keep it at a higher price to differentiate it more from the ~$250 K702 and Q701.  Razor Dog said the K712s currently cost him $50 more than the Anniversaries to obtain.  I think AKG means for the the K712 to compete more directly with the HD650 in price than with ~250-300 phones.


----------



## Change is Good

BTW, Mad, about those Momentum on ears; if its fit is anything like the amperior they will isolate extremely well while maintaining great comfort with those velour pads.


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> If you like the K240, I think the K712 will be a pretty natural upgrade.  I did a little review of the K240 in comparison to the Anniversary: http://www.head-fi.org/t/664045/akg-k240-studio-comparison-review
> 
> The K712 moves slightly closer to the K240 in sound since it's a tad lusher and fuller than the Anniversary.


 

 That's what I thought the K712 would be, an upgraded K240. I notice there was no mention of the big 10khz spike in the treble of the K240 and it's tendency to overemphasize sibilance because of it.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Sold my e17 )))) 
Now just the dt990s to go


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





kman1211 said:


> That's what I thought the K712 would be, an upgraded K240. I notice there was no mention of the big 10khz spike in the treble of the K240 and it's tendency to overemphasize sibilance because of it.


 
   
  I didn't really hear sibilance on the K240, so I didn't mention it.


----------



## kman1211

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> I didn't really hear sibilance on the K240, so I didn't mention it.


 

 Odd, they have as much sibilance as the DT 990 Pro to me, a little bit of EQ tames the spike.


----------



## DeathDealer623

Quote: 





chicolom said:


> The Q701 has drier peakier mids than the Anniversary, which in turn has drier peakier mids than the K712.  The main issue with the Q701s timbre is the mids being a bit too thin and dry.   The Anniversary fixes that some and gives them greater body and smoothness.  The K712 takes it slightly further, but not too much.  I personally prefer the timbre on both the Anniversary and K712 to the Q701.  Between the Anniversary and K712, a slight edge to the K712.
> 
> The K712 doesn't change the soundstage too much.  I think it will still be oval shaped.  I can't remember the AD700s soundstage depth.  I thought the MA900 was oval shaped too.  Depth is tricky to pull of.  The T1s and HD800s had nice depth


 
  Chico (or any new K712Pro owners),
   
  Great review/impressions of the K712 and very much appreciated.  Well, actually you guys are constantly making me look for the next best thing so not so appreciated....Damn Head-Fi! LOL.
  My question actually concerns the competitive gaming prowess of the K712.  I currently own the D7000 for single player and movies and the Annie for online multi-player so would the K712 or even the Sony Ma900 improve on the competitive performance of the Annie (since I recall you mention the improved soundstage, albeit w/ less air)?  It seems that they may not see much benefit from the Annie but, wanted some first hand knowledge before curiosity gets the better of me.


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





deathdealer623 said:


> Chico (or any new K712Pro owners),
> 
> Great review/impressions of the K712 and very much appreciated.  Well, actually you guys are constantly making me look for the next best thing so not so appreciated....Damn Head-Fi! LOL.
> My question actually concerns the competitive gaming prowess of the K712.  I currently own the D7000 for single player and movies and the Annie for online multi-player so would the K712 or even the Sony Ma900 improve on the competitive performance of the Annie (since I recall you mention the improved soundstage, albeit w/ less air)?  It seems that they may not see much benefit from the Annie but, wanted some first hand knowledge before curiosity gets the better of me.


 
   
  Going from the Anniversary to the K712 just for multiplayer gaming won't be worth it.  Any changes will be too subtle for that.  Same with the MA900s, except IMO they're a minor step down from the Anniversary, so I wouldn't go that route if you already have the Anniversary.
   
  You could stick angled pads on the Anniversaries which which will make it better for sound whoring.


----------



## Change is Good

Ok... _now_ I'm AKG-less, MrChicolom...


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





change is good said:


> Ok... _now_ I'm AKG-less, MrChicolom...


 
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/679443/k712-pro-briefely-auditioned-mint


----------



## Mitchb2020

Are the akg 712 s new 702s? 

Also my dt990s are 248 usd to america including shippimg


----------



## chicolom

Quote: 





mitchb2020 said:


> Are the akg 712 s new 702s?


 
   
  K712 sounds different from K702.


----------



## Mitchb2020

chicolom said:


> K712 sounds different from K702.



How so


----------



## chicolom

It's warmer.
   
  http://www.head-fi.org/t/659251/the-akg-k712-pro-support-and-appreciation-thread


----------



## Mitchb2020

have you guys seen the sony xbr xb1000s ?
  haha its rediculous


----------



## MadMag

Hey Mad
   
  have a guy wanting to sell Set STAX SR-507 and SRM-323S here in Brazil...I read sometime ago you were looking for Stax is that one?
   
  http://www.htforum.com/vb/showthread.php/214018-Conjunto-STAX-SR-507-e-SRM-323S
   
  selling for 4000 reais is + - $ 1,600


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the Stax, but I can't afford any. And if I were ever to get one, I want the SR-007. Of course, the SR-009 would be a dream come true.


----------



## bombadilio

So I got the K-702 Annies. THEY ARE AMAZING.... They blow away my ****ty dr dre beat Mixrs. I have only worn them for an hour, but you barely feel like they are on. Which is especially good since I wear glasses.
   
  The only purchase I am not sure of so far is the KEF M200 Hi-Fi Earphones
   
  http://www.razordogaudio.com/collections/aiaiai/products/kef-m200-hi-fi-earphones
   
  Has anyone used these? I am can't tell  the difference between this and the Iphone 5. These are harder to wear and keep on coming out of my ear. Should I push it into my canal deeply? Or am I just using them wrong? I connected them to my phone and kindle and they feel slightly under-powered. 
   
Was hoping these would be better for gym, walking the city, etc


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Glad the Annie is working out for you. I love them... a LOT.

As for the KEF... I can't ever justify spending so much on IEMs. That's what my Koss clip ons are for, and they're stellar, and cheap.

Was hoping the Yuin G1A would blow them away, but they were less musical than I wanted, though they were quite a bit more refined. The bass was rough though. It was grainy, and crackled.

I would totally buy another high end clip on....if someone actually made them.

I was close to buying the iGrado, but I thought they'd probably not fit my head, and I heard it's not comfy.


----------



## Aurora-Storm

Hello! I am seeking a headphone to compliment both my music and gaming, and after a few suggestions in my thread at Introductions I was directed here. Both gaming and musical experience are equally important to me. I feel like I might have to compromise the quality of one for the other... hopefully this is not the case!
  
 In terms of gaming, I am looking for an immersive environmental experience. With that in mind, I was leaning towards open cans. I am not a competitive gamer, but I enjoy being able to place what's going on around me and being able to sink into environmental ambience. Natural white noise like urban backgrounds, weather, water, footfall, etc, are important to me. For any of you familiar with Myst: Revelation... I literally spent hours tapping on every object (uniquely coded with it's own sound). I also love dialogue in games, and so I need headphones that treat both male and female vocals well.
 Overall, I am hoping for a fairly accurate, immersive, “surround sound” experience. To this end, it was suggested I possibly pair my eventual headphones with a Sound Blaster Z. I would be interested to hear if any of you have experience with that particular sound card.
 I also need something comfortable and light for long gaming sessions.
  
 Music is a little more complicated. The tracks I want to sound best are often a mix of airy or smooth vocals, heavily laced with electronic sound; sometimes more or less purely electronic. Female vocals feature prominently, though I love male vocals as well. Violin and cello are my favourite traditional instruments, so I'd like something that captures resonance instead of muddying it.
 I also listen to some very complicated, almost cluttered tracks (extreme example)... I miss being able to pick out the individual signature of each instrument, and I especially miss being able to distinguish between the _layers_ in each track. (I used to own an amazing noise-cancelling Sennheiser.). Some of my favourite tracks are immersive, complicated and dark. Inversely, many are bubbly or full of bright energy. _Most_ (not all) have electronic and instrumental elements.
  
 All that being said, I listen to a huge variety of music and play a large variety of games, and so something balanced (that doesn't overfavour one element only to ruin another) would probably be best. So: *immersive environmental experience, quality vocals for both males and females, clarity and accuracy that allows for immersion, and definitely NOT something that muddies the layers in a track*...
  
 I was suggested the Audio Technica ATH-AD900X initially, but I've been reading up on it / listening to reviews, and it was described that “layers bleed into each other” which would be pretty awful for me, even though it sounded pretty good otherwise. The Sennheiser HD598 was also suggested to me for it's good imaging quality for gaming.
  
 I was looking at a budget of approximately 300 for the phones. Please let me know if you have any suggestions!


----------



## Change is Good

I would totally recommend the K702 Anniversary if you can find it for cheap. Quite a few have sold for $320-$325 in the classifieds. I sold mine for a little less but it was to a local artist and he was a friend.


----------



## ethan7000

change is good said:


> I would totally recommend the K702 Anniversary if you can find it for cheap. Quite a few have sold for $320-$325 in the classifieds. I sold mine for a little less but it was to a local artist and he was a friend.


 
 Second that recommendation for Aurora-Storm


----------



## Mitchb2020

If i can get q701s for 280 aud
Fidelio x1s for 340 aud
Or the hd 600s for 310

Which is best overall in terms of gaming and music
I like hip hop music and dance
And an immersive gaming experience 
I will be getting the stx either way so I can drive all of them


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> If i can get q701s for 280 aud
> Fidelio x1s for 340 aud
> Or the hd 600s for 310
> 
> ...



Sounds like you like bass, so X1.


----------



## belisk

Seems they updated the CAL, known as CAL2, detachable cable is 2.5 to 3.5mm, so other cables like the vmoda boommic might not fit.


----------



## chicolom

belisk said:


> Seems they updated the CAL, known as CAL2, detachable cable is 2.5 to 3.5mm, so other cables like the vmoda boommic might not fit.


 
  
  
 Interesting. 
  
 They list the MSRP for the CAL at $79 and the CAL2 for $199 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
_- I like Head-Fi's new post UI/option_s.


----------



## chicolom

mitchb2020 said:


> If i can get q701s for 280 aud
> Fidelio x1s for 340 aud
> Or the hd 600s for 310
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Q701 and HD600 might be too neutral for hip-hop and dance.  X1 is better suited for those genres and is more immersive.


----------



## kenshinhimura

bombadilio said:


> So I got the K-702 Annies. THEY ARE AMAZING.... They blow away my ****ty dr dre beat Mixrs. I have only worn them for an hour, but you barely feel like they are on. Which is especially good since I wear glasses.
> 
> The only purchase I am not sure of so far is the KEF M200 Hi-Fi Earphones
> 
> ...


 
 how did you wear the Mixr with glasses? that clamp is crazy.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Interesting.
> 
> They list the MSRP for the CAL at $79 and the CAL2 for $199
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seems they made it more consumer friendly and raised the price...


----------



## widdyjudas

Just got the X1 for 296 usd in HK and sold my Hifiman.
 Oh the comfort and light weight compared to HE400...
 However, The bassqty now is a bit too much and not enough treble. I'm using the standard cable and Fiio E17. Will the bass and treble improve when I'm using after market cable?
 Got a DIY monster 100 standard cable for 10 bux, 1 meter. Is it good?


----------



## ethan7000

widdyjudas said:


> Just got the X1 for 296 usd in HK and sold my Hifiman.
> Oh the comfort and light weight compared to HE400...
> However, The bassqty now is a bit too much and not enough treble. I'm using the standard cable and Fiio E17. Will the bass and treble improve when I'm using after market cable?
> Got a DIY monster 100 standard cable for 10 bux, 1 meter. Is it good?



A lower impedance cable will provide less bass, tighter bass, and more treble.


----------



## chicolom

double post


----------



## chicolom

The difference in cables is extremely subtle IMO. 
  
 If there's too much bass and not enough treble, I'm skeptical that changing cables will fix anything.


----------



## TMRaven

http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/14550#post_9543272


----------



## chicolom

Now it's the MA900s turn to try and make it a year...
  


mad lust envy said:


> Well,* the MA900 WILL make it a yea*r, as they're gonna become a staple, like my koss clip ons which I have never gotted rid of. So even if I get something better, the MA900 is gonna stay due to the low cost, ultimate comfort, and gaming performance.


----------



## widdyjudas

Maybe its because i'm still used to the he400 sound.
However the comfort oh... so good. Good clamp and weight.
Its not that i hate the sound, just wishing it has a little less bass and more hi.
Bit regret i didn't take the at ad1000x for 360 usd, but it must wait another year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/14550#post_9543272




All those things I've said are true. The X1 IS the culmination of all the things I've wanted in a headphone. There is absolutely no other headphone that has suited me as well as the X1 has. I'm doubtful anything else will.

As I've already mentioned, I'm selling because:

1. After having spent a few weeks away from the X1, I've come back to it and the mid bass has started to give me some serious ear fatigue. Again, this has nothing to do with the X1 having too much bass. This has more to do with specific bass frequencies and my head/ears not matching up. As I have already mentioned as well, this is a common occurence for me, which has happened with the Q701, 990 Pro, UR40, DT770/600, and some other headphones. The X1 was always tip toeing that line, and being away from it those weeks really put it over the edge.

2. I've listened to music less and less, and played games more and more. The MA900 does what I want (especially comfort and weight), even if it's not completely on the same level as other headphones before it. So for NOW, I don't have any plans on buying another headphone and sticking to the MA900.



As for the MA900, there is no real justification in selling the MA900 when it's not expensive and won't fetch a lot of money, and I can easily use it as a transportable headphone even if I were to get something else in the future. Like I said, it will remain a staple in the same way the Koss KSC75/35 have.

I don't know or care if you're taking the piss at me selling the X1, as it's not like I got bored of it or found something better. The X1 is still very much the headphone I will always recommend for anyone who wants a bit more bass than a completely balanced approach like the Annies.

If I was listening to music as much as before, I could bear with some of the bass fatigue and keep the X1, but I'm not really one to have too many main headphones at once, and will more often than not reach for the headphone I find most comfortable.


----------



## widdyjudas

I thought you will buy the k712pro. Being waiting for the review... however, its still out of my budget range...
The annie in hk cost 600+usd now, i can imagine the 712 will cost 700usd atleast...
Btw thanks for the x1 review, finally got rid of neck pain from he400.
I agreed with you for comfort is more important than sound. 
Ma900 is too lightweight imo. I still need some weight to get the feel there is a headphone on my head, if you can understand this feeling.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

widdyjudas said:


> I thought you will buy the k712pro. Being waiting for the review... however, its still out of my budget range...
> The annie in hk cost 600+usd now, i can imagine the 712 will cost 700usd atleast...
> Btw thanks for the x1 review, finally got rid of neck pain from he400.
> I agreed with you for comfort is more important than sound.
> Ma900 is too lightweight imo. I still need some weight to get the feel there is a headphone on my head, if you can understand this feeling.




I dunno, for me headphones can never be too light. They can however be too loose. *cough*AD700*cough*

I'm interested in hearing the K712 Pro but I don't wanna spend money on something I know I won't use often. I've been spoiled by the MA900.

When I can sit here and say I'd reach for the MA900 9 out of 10 times over the LCD2, D7000, Annies, SR407, etc.... that's telling you something.

That's how happy I am with them even if they are inferior.

I was watching Oblivion on Blu-Ray today with the MA-900, and they blew me away with their immersion, bass, and fantastic soundstage. It was out of the head, and theater-like.


----------



## widdyjudas

Yes, I know the lightness of the ma900. When I tried it, its like I didn't wear anything on my head. too bad it leak too much, I can't hear clearly the sound signature. I only know it got bass punch and very open sound.
 Same reason I didn't take the ad1000x, I'm afraid it will be too loose on my head. Since there are no demo unit on any store, I only know the sound description from the at thread. It might got the sound signature I like, but I still want to test something before buying it.
 The only model I tried is the ad900x, got fair bass, good mids and hot audio technica treble. However, I felt that it didn't secure  enough on my head. Feels like it wants to slide down. Unlike the X1, it fits perfectly on my head with good clamp.
 Maybe the looseness is  just my feeling, but those are the reasons I'm hesitant to take the AT, although I'm regretting it a bit now.


----------



## benbenkr

chicolom said:


> Interesting.
> 
> They list the MSRP for the CAL at $79 and the CAL2 for $199
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, that's $199 AUD.
 The MSRP for the CAL2 is $129.95 USD.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Questions are, whether they use the same drivers as the original, whether Fostex is the OEM if these are new drivers, and if they are, do they improve on the original?

The only real complaint I had with the original is that the pads were too shallow, and the diameter needed to be a lot bigger to be truly circumaural. The CAL2 looks like those issues have been rectified.

Of course, there's also the fact that they use pleather pads... though the original CAL had the best pleather pads I've ever felt, seriously.

The name choice is terrible. Live!2? No spaces, really? :rolleyes:


----------



## chicolom

The pads say "_Padded with premium protein faux leather and memory-foam, the earcups provide you with unmatched comfort over extended periods of usage._"
  
 I'm glad more headphones are using memory foam, as it seems to work pretty well.
  
 I don't really see any headband padding though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Protein fake leather = premium pleather. It's still gonna induce sweat and stickiness. They should just use real leather, which is so much better on the skin. :rolleyes:


----------



## TMRaven

I can kinda relate to not wanting to sell off something so cheap and light, after all the AD700 is still in my possession after multiple years now. 
  
 However, I will be keeping this date in mind to see if you bend and buy another pair of headphones (that aren't temporary for your guide) within a year!


----------



## jani1805

Hello. You said very good things about the MA900s.
 I checked local shops and find that in one I can get them with like 50€ discout.
 But I am really concerned about sound isolation.
 Is it really that bad ? I would use them in my dorm with two roomates and at night when they sleep music/games is heard really loud ?
 Currently I use koss sb45 I hope it would be big step up in sound quality and comfort.
 But koss isolate in/out sound really well.
  
  
 sorry for my english.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If they're in the same room, they'll hear plenty. However, in a different room, dont worry... with any headphone.


----------



## jani1805

Too bad they are in the same room 

For my needs and budget(games,music,good noise cancellation in and out, comfort for hours max 120€) would be best CALs? 
Looks like they wont let sound out neither too much in. 
But my question is are they considerable upgrade to my koss sb45s? In terms of comfort absolutely (at least I think) but do they sound much better? 
Or what alternatives would you suggest. 
I wanted siberia v2 or razer kraken pro but reading around this site looks like headsets are bad and overpriced for perforáciou they deliver.


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> Questions are, whether they use the same drivers as the original, whether Fostex is the OEM if these are new drivers, and if they are, do they improve on the original?
> 
> The only real complaint I had with the original is that the pads were too shallow, and the diameter needed to be a lot bigger to be truly circumaural. The CAL2 looks like those issues have been rectified.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm... according to their press-release, Creative states that the CAL2 uses 40nm bio cellulose drivers. I believe these are the same Fostex drivers on the CAL?
 I know, what they say according to press and what actually ends up in the final product might be entirely different. But sounds to be the same thus far.


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> So for NOW, I don't have any plans on buying another headphone and sticking to the MA900.


 
 Anyone who follows this thread knows it won't be too long before this changes. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 As kind of a sidebar in regards to comfort, it is certainly an important thing, but everyone is going to have different experiences as far as that goes. The Annie disappears on my head. I don't even notice I'm wearing them half the time. I have a pair of CALs that never caused any problems. My FA-003 clones can get a bit hot at times, but only on the hottest days. I also have a FA-004 clone (can get uncomfortable after long sessions, 3+ hours), G930, and Sennheiser PC150 that haven't caused any problems and are generally very comfortable. 
  
 The most offensive headphone I have is the Monoprice 8323. That headband is just torture. The earpads are also uncomfortable after a short amount of time.


----------



## Evshrug

aurora-storm said:


> Hello! I am seeking a headphone to compliment both my music and gaming, and after a few suggestions in my thread at Introductions I was directed here. Both gaming and musical experience are equally important to me. I feel like I might have to compromise the quality of one for the other... hopefully this is not the case!
> 
> Myst...
> Surround sound... Sound Blaster Z card...
> ...


 
  
 Dude... are you like, my clone? I love ALL OF THAT above.
  
 Anyways, I started out with an AD700, the AudioTechnica you mentioned above actually would do a fair job avoiding the "wall of sound" issue with non-audiophile headphones where everything blends together, and also be comfortable because it is so light and non-clampy (I wore mine for 8 hour marathons a few times over the years, no headphones disappear completely BUT the Audio Technicas came closest after I bent the headband and balanced the clamp angle by stringing a rubber band between the "wings"). It would be a fair headphone, and you wouldn't have to spend more on a separate amp.
 Later (last year) I upgraded to Q701, they're quite awesome, a clear upgrade but sometimes strident if not amped correctly, so about $100 in amp on top of the $200 headphone to get a good (great) experience. If you read Mad's review, he was fond of those too, but ultimately he likes a little more Bass. Chico was mostly happy with the Q's, but he's happier with the slight bass balance tweaks in the newer K701 Anniversary and K712 Pro headphones. Any three of those would be great, it becomes very easy to delineate separate instruments (and hear ones that were previously lost completely in the mix, very subtle headphones). The newer headphones with greater bass may bring your attention to other parts of the song, but they're similar on detail retrieval FWIR.
 Mad, as I'm sure you've noticed, is excited about the bargain value of Sony's MA900. Not as refined as the AKG's, but a pleasant crowd pleaser, still very detailed and only a little separates them.
  
 It's important to note, though, that all the above headphones respond really well to virtual headphone surround processing... see my "journal" linked in my signature for details, but essentially it creates a cool holographic projection of sound within standard (but detailed) stereo headphones. Not only will you hear the distinct sound of what each object makes, but it will seem to come from distinct locations around you. Very cool effect, something with this processing will make a big difference in your enjoyment once you get used to it.
  
 I wish CyanWorlds would make another Myst. Absolutely loved exploring, but few games are of this type anymore (closest you can get IMO is Portal 2 and Skyrim-esq games, where exploration/puzzles and *discovery* is only an added feature to another genre). If you find new ones, let me know, please?


tmraven said:


> I can kinda relate to not wanting to sell off something so cheap and light, after all the AD700 is still in my possession after multiple years now.
> 
> However, I will be keeping this date in mind to see if you bend and buy another pair of headphones (that aren't temporary for your guide) within a year!


 
 I had mine for 3 years, almost kept them instead of the Q701, but ultimately the better bass extension (not big bass but reaching low) plus rhythmical involvement won me over.


----------



## AvroArrow

I just wanted to chime in and thank Mad Lust Envy for writing this wonderful headphone guide. It made choosing gaming headphones simultaneously that much easier and harder. =) I bought my first "audiophile" quality headphones, the ATH-AD700 just over 3 months ago due to this guide and more recently a pair of AKG K702.65 also due to this guide (serial number 57xx came with the newer deeper 712Pro pads shown in Chicolom's comparison). I'm lucky in that there is a nearby headphone shop that just happened to have a pair of K702.65, Q701, HD650 and a bunch of other nice headphones to demo. And boy am I glad I got chance to try them on in person.
  
 I have a fairly large head and wear glasses so it's quite difficult to find a comfortable pair of headphones that I can wear for hours and hours. The AD700s fit fairly well since I have a large head but the bottom of the pads pressed again the sensitive soft spot between the bottom of my ears and top of my jaw which causes discomfort after about 15-30 minutes. Fortunately I found a mod for the pads on this forum (insert U-shaped soft packing foam into the inside top of the pads) which fixed the comfort issue for me. As I used them more I found the lack of bass kind of... lacking. I knew they were weak on the bass end before buying them so that wasn't unexpected. I just grew to desire more bass while retaining the very nice mid and treble of the AD700. So back to the guide I go searching for a new pair of all-rounder headphones.
  
 I was initially looking at the Q701 since it was about $150 cheaper than the K702.65 but the bumpy headband and stiffer pads made me think twice. Fortunately there's a nearby headphone shop that had both the K702.65 and Q701 so I got a chance to try them both on. Am I ever glad I did. The Q701 felt like a torture device to me. The middle bumps pressed hard on the top of my head and the stiffer pads made it worse than my unmodded AD700 because it pressed even harder on that soft sensitive spot above my jaw. Then I tried on the K702.65 and WOW... these felt like soft marshmallows compared to the Q701. Hard to believe that by simply changing headband and ear pads that it felt sooo different. From that point on, everything else I tried on was "vs K702.65" for me. The HD650 felt like a vice clamp on my head so no higher end Sennheisers for me. The next most comfortable headphones I managed to try on were the Beyerdynamic DT880 Premium. While the DT880s were cheaper (about $20 more than the Q701) than the K702.65, I preferred the more neutral K702.65. I ordered my K702.65 online since the shop was out of stock except for the demo pair. I was kind of surprised when I received my K702.65 that it came with the newer, deeper pads of the 712Pro that Chicolom showed in his comparison vs the K702.65. The older demo K702.65 I tried at the store also had the rounder/donut/inner-tube looking memory foam pads since I was looking for that specifically due to Chicolom's comparison. The newer deeper pads felt just as comfortable as the rounder pads to me, maybe a bit better since my ears were a bit farther away from the drivers. I think that's it for headphones for me for now... but if I feel the need to upgrade again (and that next jump will be very pricey) I know where to look for recommendations. Thanks again MLE for writing this up for us audio newbies!


----------



## Change is Good

^ No mention of where you got your Anniversaries from? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 People are going to want to know...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So newer Annies have deeper pads?

Hahahaha. Oh boy. AKG be crazy.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> So newer Annies have deeper pads?
> 
> Hahahaha. Oh boy. AKG be crazy.


 
  
 Let's wait until he gives us some proof... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At least a link so someone will end up confirming.


----------



## chicolom

avroarrow said:


> I was kind of surprised when I received my K702.65 that it *came with the newer, deeper pads of the 712Pro* that Chicolom showed in his comparison vs the K702.65 _(serial number 57xx came with the newer deeper 712Pro pads shown in Chicolom's comparison)_.  The older demo K702.65 I tried at the store also had the rounder/donut/inner-tube looking memory foam pads since I was looking for that specifically due to Chicolom's comparison. The newer deeper pads felt just as comfortable as the rounder pads to me, maybe a bit better since my ears were a bit farther away from the drivers. I think that's it for headphones for me for now... but if I feel the need to upgrade again (and that next jump will be very pricey) I know where to look for recommendations.


 
  
 Interesting.  Thanks for the update.  I had a feeling there were some Anniversaries using those pads.  57xx is a fairly high serial number for the Anniversaries, so maybe sometime around then they switched them over to use the K712 pads.
  
 You should take some pictures of these pads and post them in the K712 thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/659251/the-akg-k712-pro-support-and-appreciation-thread


----------



## NamelessPFG

MLE, if you want a shot at reviewing the SR-Lambda, you'll have to decide quickly. Financial circumstances have deemed it necessary to start selling stuff off soon.
  
 I don't necessarily want to part with that gear, but the MA900 has proven itself good enough (NOT superior by any means, just good enough to live with), and not much else I have around here would garner me much money if sold.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Right now I just had to pay off a lot of things just to stay in my apartment, so I don't have disposable income. No worries, Nameless.


----------



## Evshrug

>_<

Reading this thread is torture. Of course I wanna try the MA900, but it was also a relief that Change's Annies sold (I mean, good for you selling them, but also... they would've sold soon regardless  ). And now, more posts about comfort. I don't NEED to keep up with the Jones' (Chicos?), I don't really HAVE any complaints, but... new stuff looks fun.
Am I a masochist for reading this thread (and being tight with my wallet)? Lol.

Edit: I say that, post, then get a weird feeling seeing the two posts made since I loaded this page and wrote my post.


----------



## OnePunchMan

I'm thinking of picking up the MA900s, but I'm curious, if I were to get the Annie's would I also need to get a second amp to properly power them along with a mixamp? And if so would something like a Schiit amp work prety well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you plan on attaching a mic, yes. If just for single player gaming, no, though those AKG drivers do scale with better amping. A Schiit Magni would do the Annies justice, as far as budget friendly amping goes.


Ah yeah, sorry guys, I should be sending out the MA900 soon, so....

Evs, Change (you still want to try the MA900?), Matt, calpis, I need your names/addresses.

I'll leave the X1 up for sale, but probably looks like I'll wanna keep them while the MA900 is away.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> If you plan on attaching a mic, yes. If just for single player gaming, no, though those AKG drivers do scale with better amping. A Schiit Magni would do the Annies justice, as far as budget friendly amping goes.
> 
> 
> Ah yeah, sorry guys, I should be sending out the MA900 soon, so....
> ...


 
  
 I'm down like four flat tires...


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > >_<
> ...


 
  
 Hahaha! Glad it worked out... though I see you biting the hook on something else very soon!


----------



## AvroArrow

I ordered my Annies from razordogaudio late August so I've only had them for 1 week so far.  I'm still a newbie at this so I may be wrong about the pads but they don't seem round like an inner tube shape like the Annie pictures Chicolom posted.  I'll try to post some photobucket links but I can't find what the max image size I can post here, the intro FAQ for this forum didn't specify, so I'll resize them down to 800x600 to be safe.  Actually, since I'm still new, I'm not sure the image links will work due to the anti-spam measures in place.  I'll try anyway.
  
 EDIT: yay, I can insert proper image links now.
  

  

  

  
 It's hard to get the lighting just right to show the shape.  The black velour/velvety texture makes it very hard to photograph.  The pads are about 24mm tall measuring from the outside plastic edge.  Chicolom's pictures show the original/older Annie pads to be noticeably shorter, although if that's from prolonged use/compression, I don't know for sure, and that's assuming mine are in fact different and are similar to the 712Pro pads.


----------



## Evshrug

AvroArrow,
They're good pics, I think this one gives me a good idea vs the Q701 pads I have:




Your pads have a bowl-shape to them, while my Q's have inner tube/ doughnut shaped pads.
[P.S., To get the image to display, I just copy/pasted the link in the "IMG" box in the "links" sidebar of your photobucket page, you can "quote" my reply to see how they coded that out]




change is good said:


> I'm down like four flat tires...
> *Jeez, sound positive about it, why don'tcha?*
> 
> Hahaha! Glad it worked out... though I see you biting the hook on something else very soon!



I'm thinking about the money down I dropped on my new car in July, and then August I ran up my credit card bill higher than ever before... yet somehow I'm in budget to pay said bill (I never spend money I don't already have), and somehow I still put a couple hundred in savings last month. I definitely needed the car and computer, got a great deal on both and already using them directly/indirectly to make money, now I want to slow down and keep building my savings, but in my mind I'm thinking "I can probably recoup most of my money I put into my Q701 and E12, which would only put me a few bucks away from a used K712 Pro... But I love my Q's! I'm happy with them! But I could buy the K712 Pros and still technically be slowing down..."

So yeah, circuituitous thinking. I'm actually happy with the comfort and bass on the Q's, the K712's would be fun but what I REALLY want is more soundstage depth and what that one guy who recently did the big "flagship headphone round-up" was hearing when he typed about "transparency." I don't even know if I believe in it, the practical difference from AD700 to Q701 was audible and added up to being musical *but* each difference felt incremental.

By the way, been listening to the M-100 more, in a lot of ways going from the Q701 to the M-100 feels a lot like how Mad described going from the Annies to the X1, though my tastes run more "neutral" or something so the M-100 is a fun dalliance (that I often reach for) that doesn't give up much to the Q, but the Q701 remains my "main" headphone in my mind. Like Mad needs bass-headache breaks from the X1, I need clamp breaks from the M-100, but I feel comfortable considering them my endgame easy portable/sealed headphone, that handles home use admirably too.


----------



## Change is Good

^ I'm actually pretty excited... just wanted to keep my cool...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those pads look better than the original Annie pads. Looks like comfort would be boosted too.

I'm sending the MA900 out tomorrow, Change gets it first as he lives like 40 minutes from me, but won't meet me halfway. 

I don't keep my private messages, so I do need the addresses again for the others.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm sending the MA900 out tomorrow, Change gets it first as he lives like 40 minutes from me, but won't meet me halfway.


 
  
 Hahaha lol if I didn't spend so much on audio I'd probably have my license back _and _a car by now... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Bravo to you, Evs, for putting your transportation priorities first... lol


----------



## chicolom

avroarrow said:


> I ordered my Annies from razordogaudio late August so I've only had them for 1 week so far.  I'm still a newbie at this so I may be wrong about the pads but they don't seem round like an inner tube shape like the Annie pictures Chicolom posted.  I'll try to post some photobucket links but I can't find what the max image size I can post here, the intro FAQ for this forum didn't specify, so I'll resize them down to 800x600 to be safe.  Actually, since I'm still new, I'm not sure the image links will work due to the anti-spam measures in place.  I'll try anyway.
> 
> It's hard to get the lighting just right to show the shape.  The black velour/velvety texture makes it very hard to photograph.  The pads are about 24mm tall measuring from the outside plastic edge.  Chicolom's pictures show the original/older Annie pads to be noticeably shorter, although if that's from prolonged use/compression, I don't know for sure, and that's assuming mine are in fact different and are similar to the 712Pro pads.


 
  
 You can post pretty big pictures in-thread.  I post a lot bigger than 800x600. 
  
 Anyways, those DO look like the K712 pads.
  
 Thanks for the confirmation pics.


----------



## chicolom

I think my iCan might be dying.  I can't get it to power on and it just flickers the power lights when I plug it in.
  
 It's well under warranty, so it won't be an issue getting it fixed/replaced, but it's still a bummer.
  










  
 iFi says the power supply is probably bad...
_I'm amazed the iFi support is actually responding to my emails about it this late/early at night/morning!_


----------



## MadMag

Ok Mad sry XD....
  
 he sold the kit in less than 2 days for a guy who bougth a hd800 1 week ago and T1 + A1 3 days ago ....dude...i am so **** poor T.T
  
 he says will make a review or something like that and resell what he don't want later


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 is ready to go. Guess I better unpack the X1, lol.


----------



## 0verlord

It looks like the PC 360s are $170 on Amazon. I would need a sound card to go with them. I currently do not own any high quality headphones or headsets, just a few cheap communications headsets. This would be a first for me. Is this worth jumping on or should I look for something in the $100 range?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> I think my iCan might be dying.  I can't get it to power on and it just flickers the power lights when I plug it in.
> 
> It's well under warranty, so it won't be an issue getting it fixed/replaced, but it's still a bummer.
> 
> ...




Sorry to hear this news 

Look at it this way... you now get the updated version with the gain switches in return


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

0verlord, if you're in need of a headset. The PC360 is the best I can recommend. If you dont need a mic, I would definitely recommend the Sony MA900 instead which sells for $10 more on Amazon most of the time, or even less on Ebay, compared to the pc360.

Change, the MA900 is on its way. USPS.


----------



## PurpleAngel

0verlord said:


> It looks like the PC 360s are $170 on Amazon. I would need a sound card to go with them. I currently do not own any high quality headphones or headsets, just a few cheap communications headsets. This would be a first for me. Is this worth jumping on or should I look for something in the $100 range?


 
 Sometimes a used HD558 sells for just over $100 on Amazon or eBay.
 You can get an add-on mic for $8-$15
  
 Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, $27.99


----------



## davidsh

The iCan gain switch is pretty good to have IMO, since I am personally always under 9 'oclock with my HE-500, mostly around 8.


----------



## 0verlord

The mic is definitely essential for me. I guess next question, sound card to go with it? Do I need to be looking at amps or other things like that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PC360 is easy to drive. Just the soundcard will do.


----------



## 0verlord

mad lust envy said:


> The PC360 is easy to drive. Just the soundcard will do.


 
 I will begin looking at sound cards. I imagine I will need something with Dolby Headphone. Any idea where I should start looking?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Xonar U3 as external, DG, Essence STX? I'm not well versed in soundcards. I myself just use the cheap U3, and feed the optical signal that carries Dolby Headphone to my real headphone dac/amp.


----------



## 0verlord

I'll see what I can dig up, shouldn't been too hard if I don't need a DAC/AMP thing.


----------



## AvroArrow

evshrug said:


> AvroArrow,
> They're good pics, I think this one gives me a good idea vs the Q701 pads I have:
> 
> Your pads have a bowl-shape to them, while my Q's have inner tube/ doughnut shaped pads.


 
  
 Interestingly, the Q701 that I tried at the store also had "bowl" shaped pads like 712 and my Annies, except they were much stiffer and uncomfortable for me.  I wonder if it's similar to the Annies in that the earlier production units have the doughnut shaped pads and later units have the more bowl shaped pads.
  
  


chicolom said:


> You can post pretty big pictures in-thread.  I post a lot bigger than 800x600.
> 
> Anyways, those DO look like the K712 pads.
> 
> Thanks for the confirmation pics.


 
  
 Good to know I can post larger pictures in the future.  And thanks for confirming my thoughts on the pads.  I didn't have them side-by-side to compare so I was a bit unsure.


----------



## Evshrug

avroarrow said:


> Interestingly, the Q701 that I tried at the store also had "bowl" shaped pads like 712 and my Annies, except they were much stiffer and uncomfortable for me.  I wonder if it's similar to the Annies in that the earlier production units have the doughnut shaped pads and later units have the more bowl shaped pads.
> 
> Good to know I can post larger pictures in the future.  And thanks for confirming my thoughts on the pads.  I didn't have them side-by-side to compare so I was a bit unsure.




I admit I haven't looked very closely at my Q701's pads. I'll post a picture tonight after work.


----------



## chicolom

Head-fi ate my post....


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, the MA900 is on its way. USPS.


 
  
 Sweet! Should be here tomorrow so I'll let you know as soon as its in my hands. Do you know yet who I'm sending it to, afterwards? I'll be shipping it back out on Monday... won't be able to do much listening during the week because of school
  


> Originally Posted by *chicolom* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Actually, my iCan was one of the first ones to have the the gain switches.
> ...


 
  
 I've just been unplugging it, too. I was sooo confused when I first got it... thought I was crazy because there was no off switch


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Sorry to hear this news
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually, my iCan was one of the first ones to have the the gain switches.
  
 I'm going to exchange it anyways though, just to be safe.
  
 How do you power yours ON and OFF?  I've been just unplugging the cord from the _back _of the iCan itself, but now I'm a little paranoid that that could have messed it up somehow.  
  
 I might get something like this to turn it ON/OFF instead.
  
  
  

  
  
 BTW, the reason the iCan doesn't have a power switch is, according to iFi: "
_Based upon EU regulations, from 2010, all electronics components when switched to Standby must consume <1W.  From 1st Jan 2013, when switched to Standby must consume <0.5W.  As you can see, this is quite draconian. _
_For iFi, the only way to comply is to have on/off so no Standby.  So you have to switch on/off at the wall (UK) or unplug at the outlet (US)._"


avroarrow said:


> Interestingly, the Q701 that I tried at the store also had "bowl" shaped pads like 712 and my Annies, except they were much stiffer and uncomfortable for me.  I wonder if it's similar to the Annies in that the earlier production units have the doughnut shaped pads and later units have the more bowl shaped pads.


 
  
 Q701 has been using the same pads since it came out, which are the K702 pads.  They're similar in shape to the K712 pads (they have that steeper bowl shape) but are angled to be thicker one on side and thinner on the other and use a stiffer spring foam.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Head-fi ate my post....


 
  
 Yea it ate mine too. I replied to you AND Mad... but it only shows my reply to Mad. Anyway, I just unplug it, too...
  
 Edit: And it's still not showing your whole post. Got mine to show up by editing and resubmitting. I noticed this on multiple threads also. There are _many more_ unfinished sentences than usual. I just PM'd Curra about this.


----------



## chicolom

It's still eating posts...


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> It's still eating posts...


 
  
  I PM'd Curra because it's all over the place


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Head-fi ate my post....


 
  
 Om nom nom.


----------



## Currawong

If you're having trouble with the new editor (it has broken things for me too) please post about it in the Feedback and Bug Reports forum. That would be most helpful.


----------



## Change is Good

K712 PRO is on sale from now until the 15th of September for $385 using the coupon RAZORDOGK712. I will definitely be jumping on these by the last day of its promotion as I should have the funds by then


----------



## Evshrug

^ Aw.......... Dag-nabbit!


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> ^ Aw.......... Dag-nabbit!


----------



## Evshrug

Thank goodness there isn't a smattering of gorgeous pictures populating the thread to seduce me. Well... Chico posted a few.


----------



## OnePunchMan

Are the k712's better than the annies?


----------



## Change is Good

> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > Thank goodness there isn't a smattering of gorgeous pictures populating the thread to seduce me. Well... Chico posted a few.


 
  
 I'll just let Mad review them for ya when I get mine...


----------



## chicolom

onepunchman said:


> Are the k712's better than the annies?


 They are a variation on them. Whether they're "better" will depend on the individual's preferences. Sort of like the HD600 and HD650.


----------



## miceblue

Ugh, why did AKG have to make so many rehashes of the same thing? T_T
  
 K 701
 K 702
 K 701 (8-bump)
 Q 701
 K 702 65th Anniversary Edition
 K 712
 What's next, the K 777 77th Anniversary Edition, 77 ohms with a new revolutionary 77 pm diaphragm for €777.77 and only 77 are made?


----------



## chicolom

$_$

They've at least been modifying/improving them a little over time. They could use a NEW headphone though.

K80x...


----------



## Evshrug

I think part of why we see rehashes is because they're already quite good, and as a brand they have a reputation to continue. If people are using them in the music industry for monitoring mixes (actually possible compared to some other "studio" headphones), then they actually have to be able to predict what sound they get and how to master the tracks.
I could go for a 250 ohm AKG.


----------



## NamelessPFG

change is good said:


> K712 PRO is on sale from now until the 15th of September for $385 using the coupon RAZORDOGK712. I will definitely be jumping on these by the last day of its promotion as I should have the funds by then



That's still quite expensive for a dynamic set, and one that demands powerful amplification to boot...

I can only hope it's worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd bite at that price, if I didn't own the MA900.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> $_$
> 
> They've at least been modifying/improving them a little over time. They could use a NEW headphone though.
> 
> K80x...



You mean like... A Sennheiser HD800 killer?
*scratches chin strap*
I mean, consider the quality jump from the HD650 to the 800 in the areas of soundstage and "unveiled," while not having fatiguingly bright treble (well, it is for some, but FWIR I surmise (guess) that it is less so than, say, the DT990. Imagine if AKG made a similar price-no-object headphone with similar gains in soundstage and transparency quality...

Which reminds me, what I SHOULD do instead of buying another headphone, find someone willing to trade or loan a DT880. I've wanted the exotic AKG for longer than I've been curious about the Beyerdynamics, but it's still on my audio shortlist as unheard. The one guy living nearby who offered to meet & share disappeared. Can't be more treble-fatiguing than the AD700, right? Anyone care to share impressions?


----------



## AvroArrow

0verlord said:


> It looks like the PC 360s are $170 on Amazon. I would need a sound card to go with them. I currently do not own any high quality headphones or headsets, just a few cheap communications headsets. This would be a first for me. Is this worth jumping on or should I look for something in the $100 range?


 
  
 Wow... those PC360s are $100 cheaper than what they are here in Canada.  Too bad Sennheisers clamp too hard on my big head.  I ended up hacking together my own gaming headset.
  
 Argh... still too new to properly insert images.  
  
 EDIT: yay, I can insert image links now.
  

  

  

  
 ATH-AD700 + 3.5mm female jack + 3.5mm male plug + soldering iron + V-Moda BoomPro Microphone = ~$150 convertible gaming headset (with inline mute & volume control) that can also be used to chat on my smartphone.    I was initially looking at the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Headset Gear for the mod but the $100 price tag really turned me off.  Then my local headphonebar got some V-Moda BoomPros in for $33 so I jumped on it and did the mod right away.  It's not the greatest boom mic because I find the boom a tad short and it's a tiny bit loose in the 3.5mm jack, but for $33+tax, I can't really complain, especially since it comes with that nifty adapter that allows you to use it on smartphone as well as a standard headphone+mic port on a computer.
  
  


chicolom said:


> Q701 has been using the same pads since it came out, which are the K702 pads.  They're similar in shape to the K712 pads (they have that steeper bowl shape) but are angled to be thicker one on side and thinner on the other and use a stiffer spring foam.


 
  
 Ah, I didn't really notice that they were angled because the stiffer spring foam really turned me off of them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really wish the MA900 had a removable cable...

MA900 + V-moda boompro = all the headset anyone would ever need.


Hmm... I'm interested in the HD239 and/or PX100-II for away use.


----------



## chicolom

I shipped my iCan off for replacement.  I already _really miss_ the 3D holographic switch.  Music just sounds flat without it.
  
 I picked up a simple little outlet ON/OF switch at the store to use with the next one, so I don't have to yank the cord out every time.  I'm paranoid that that could have messed it up somehow.


----------



## AxelCloris

Chico, stop making me want to spend money on an iCan and take my T1 into the office. So mean. Gosh.


----------



## Change is Good

I guess it wouldn't help if I mentioned that I miss my iCAN everytime I'm on the go...


----------



## chicolom

This guy did a pretty significant price drop on his K712s:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/679443/k712-pro-briefely-auditioned-mint

He's asking for shipping + paypal fees extra though...


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I really wish the MA900 had a removable cable...
> 
> MA900 + V-moda boompro = all the headset anyone would ever need.


 
  
 I predict a lot of MA900 headset mods, like they've done with the AD700.
  
 It's very likely that I'll be sticking some kind of mic on my MA900 in the future, at any rate.
  
 For that matter, Sony needs to wise up and start making gaming headsets based on the MA900/F1 design instead of the stuff they're pumping out now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess a good old Antlion modmic will easily attach side of the cups. Still, nothing beats the easy integration of the v-moda mic...


And that stock cable is a bit thinner than I'd like.


----------



## davidsh

I am one of the few that don't really like the 3d iCan switch apparently? Don't like its signature that much.


----------



## chicolom

davidsh said:


> I am one of the few that don't really like the 3d iCan switch apparently? Don't like its signature that much.


 
  
  
 What headphones did you use it with? 
  
 It works best with warm headphones IMO, because it adds a little treble energy and air when it's ON.


----------



## davidsh

HE-500 mostly. It is pretty nice with movies and games, etc. Also some music.


----------



## chicolom

Does the iCan drive the HE500s OK?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

David... by some chance, you know anyone named Semir Ugljanin? I have a few friends in Copenhagen.


----------



## davidsh

No, I don't.. Live pretty far away from Copenhagen anyway 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The iCan drives the 500's pretty decent, actually. Nice dynamics and lively sound, but lacks that control and bass impact of bigger amps. Think there'd be better amps for the 500's for the price, but the iCan is decent, and definitely better than the e17...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm missing the planar magnetic sound of the LCD2.

I wish Hifiman would release a less edgy upgrade to the HE400, with less weight than the HE500. Hopefully new design too.


----------



## davidsh

HE-4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-4 is on the bright side, and doesn't have the HE-400's bass. Also, the need for a nuclear power plant to drive them properly isn't exactly ideal.

Old design, with horrible pad mechanism.


----------



## Justlog

Mad Lust, any chance of seeing an Brainwavz HM5 review entering the thread?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unlikely, unless I was sent a pair for review.


----------



## modulor

mad lust envy said:


> I really wish the MA900 had a removable cable...
> 
> MA900 + V-moda boompro = all the headset anyone would ever need.
> 
> ...


 
 They have a single cable entry point and looking at the pictures, it should be possible to stick a female TRS plug in there.  That would be a pretty cool headset indeed...


----------



## Evshrug

*AvroArrow*,
See this?


You know, these?


Try those links for properly displaying them in-line. I think I mentioned this yesterday. Very nice mod by the way, good that you kept the stock AD700 cable I was a big fan of it, wondered how it would perform on other headphones. Strictly by tangle resistance and feel, it is nicer than the cables that come with the Q701.

Mad,
I'd offered a few times to send you the M-100, I'm curious how you'd analyze them, but you haven't given me indication that you would put them on your head


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, lol. Well, then how about sending it to me with the MA900? Might need a bigger box... I dunno. I guess that means youd get them last. Change, calpis, matt, you. Those are the 4 people.


----------



## Change is Good

MA900 is here safe and sound, Mad.
  
 I haven't opened it, yet, because I'm going back to sleep 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Will be back later tonight with first impressions...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, lol. Well, then how about sending it to me with the MA900? Might need a bigger box... I dunno. I guess that means youd get them last. Change, calpis, matt, you. Those are the 4 people.



Aw crap. Mah big mouth.
If I don't put the M-100 in their case though, they may fit (folded up) between the MA900 earcups and headband if the MA900 is extended. They fold up very small... 
With the Q701, the headband and pads don't even have to move to fit the M-100 in-between if I put it sideways, as here! Of course, I would never compromise the safety of your stuff. I was actually thinking of just sending them to you separately though.



change is good said:


> MA900 is here safe and sound, Mad.
> 
> I haven't opened it, yet, because I'm going back to sleep  . Will be back later tonight with first impressions...



Are you a midnight security guard too?? @_@


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, I didn't put the MA900 in the inner carton thing because.... well I don't even know how it goes, lol. But I placed other crap in there to protect it.... hopefully. Like I said on the review, just make sure to extend the length from the silicone rubber portion between the headband and the cups.



Hold from that thin section with one hand (two fingers, I guess), and pull down the cup. If you don't. That thin section can slip off from the headband section and expose the wire.

EVS, just trying to save you money. 

You can send it anytime.

As for the order... I just need calpis's address again, and then I'll see which way is fastest.


----------



## AvroArrow

namelesspfg said:


> I predict a lot of MA900 headset mods, like they've done with the AD700.
> 
> It's very likely that I'll be sticking some kind of mic on my MA900 in the future, at any rate.
> 
> For that matter, Sony needs to wise up and start making gaming headsets based on the MA900/F1 design instead of the stuff they're pumping out now...


 
  
 The detachable cable mod for the AD700 was relatively easy to do (assuming you're proficient with a soldering iron).  Probably even easier than the ATH-M50 detachable cable mod, which is where I got the idea.  When I opened up the AD700s, the inside plastic structure looked like it was made to house a TRS jack on the inside, so I didn't have to alter any of the plastic structure like the M50 mod.
  


mad lust envy said:


> I guess a good old Antlion modmic will easily attach side of the cups. Still, nothing beats the easy integration of the v-moda mic...
> 
> 
> And that stock cable is a bit thinner than I'd like.


 
  
 I thought about the Antlion modmic but it was more expensive, unavailable (due to production issues) and the current version at the time (v2) didn't have a mute button.  Had to wait for v3 for a mute button, so V-Moda it was.  Yeah, the stock V-Moda cable does seem a bit thin but the fabric/shoe lace-like sheath makes it feel fairly durable.  It's actually just like the cable on my Alienware TactX mouse (rebadged G9x mouse).
  


evshrug said:


> *AvroArrow*,
> See this?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Evshrug, I have tried all 4 link types like you mentioned before, but all I see when I "Preview" the message with those links are the raw and slightly mis-colored BB code lines like my current image links. When I click on the Insert Image button on the editor toolbar (which is the proper way to insert image links according to the FAQ) I get a "Your account does not have the required permissions to access this page" message pop up, likely due to the anti-spammer limiter in place for newbies like me.  I'll re-edit those links in my posts once those limiters are removed.
  
 Thanks for the compliments.  I really wanted the mod to look clean, like it came from the factory that way.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I also liked the stock Audio-Technica cable (the AD700 and my friend's M50 cable), it feels way nicer than the stock K702.65 cable.  Seriously, for a pair of headphones that MSRP for $500, you'd think AKG could have bundled it with a more "expensive looking" cable at least.  I also want to do a similar mic mod to my Annies, but I have not found a modular boom mic that terminates in a female miniXLR plug.  I don't want to try converting my Annies from miniXLR to TRS jack on the headphone side.  I only did it to the AD700 because I had just received my Annies, so even if I did screw up, I'd still have a nice working pair of headphones.  That and the AD700 only cost about 1/4 what the Annies cost.


----------



## ShooK

Hey could someone do a quality test with the V-MODA BoomPro Gaming Mic? I might get that if the quality is decent.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Avro, I meant the MA900 cable being a bit thin. I think the Vmoda's may be thinner, but the sleeving is pretty damn durable. Got to experience it when I was sent the Mad Dogs.


----------



## Mitchb2020

heys guys
 what do you think of this combo
Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D THX PCIE Fatal1ty Champion Sound Card SB1354
AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Signature Reference-Class Premium Headphones - Black


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mitchb2020 said:


> heys guys
> 
> what do you think of this combo




Hmmm, well THX Tru Studio is good, though I don't know how powerful that soundcard is, and the Q701 needs some good power. Says iut can handle 600ohm headphones, but no real tech specs on the amp. Still, it sounds good...


----------



## Mitchb2020

or should i go with
 http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Blaster-Beamforming-Microphone-SB1500/dp/B009ISU33E/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1378488547&sr=1-1&keywords=sound+card
  
 Ill try find better specs

 i think that combo will be goood


----------



## Mitchb2020

Maxim MAX97220 amp for the sound blaster z


----------



## AxelCloris

shook said:


> Hey could someone do a quality test with the V-MODA BoomPro Gaming Mic? I might get that if the quality is decent.


 
  
 I've gamed a couple evenings now with the cable and haven't had a single complaint about the audio quality. One of the guys I run with says it sounds as clear as my Modmic v1 does. And the cable is well built. It has a metal exoskeleton along the boom of the mic allowing for it to be flexible but remain where you move it, within reason of course. It doesn't have that cheap bouncy feeling that you can get with many adjustable booms.
  
 Keep in mind that the side that connects to your devices is a TRRS connector. It comes with an adapter to make it work with traditional headphone/mic 3.5mm jacks, but I can see potential for that to annoy some people. Personally I love it. Cable management ftw.


----------



## Evshrug

avroarrow said:


> The detachable cable mod for the AD700 was relatively easy to do (assuming you're proficient with a soldering iron).  Probably even easier than the ATH-M50 detachable cable mod, which is where I got the idea.  When I opened up the AD700s, the inside plastic structure looked like it was made to house a TRS jack on the inside, so I didn't have to alter any of the plastic structure like the M50 mod.
> 
> 
> I thought about the Antlion modmic but it was more expensive, unavailable (due to production issues) and the current version at the time (v2) didn't have a mute button.  Had to wait for v3 for a mute button, so V-Moda it was.  Yeah, the stock V-Moda cable does seem a bit thin but the fabric/shoe lace-like sheath makes it feel fairly durable.  It's actually just like the cable on my Alienware TactX mouse (rebadged G9x mouse).
> ...



Yay! You're welcome with the compliments, I kinda wanted to do the same but I'm too shy to try. I've got some blowtorch skills, but not exactly a surgeon's steady hands and no electronics soldering experience. So what is easy to you, impresses me, and I give extra kudos for going the extra mile to make the AD700 cable into an extra 3.5mm Male to Male cable.

Sorry I couldn't help with the image posting; I tried, but honestly I have more experience with Head-Fi posting via iPad (as you may have guessed from the screenshots).



mitchb2020 said:


> heys guys
> what do you think of this combo
> Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D THX PCIE Fatal1ty Champion Sound Card SB1354
> AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Signature Reference-Class Premium Headphones - Black



Honestly, I liked my Recon3D USB because it works with Mac, but I don't see a reason to choose the Recon3D internal cards over Creative's latest efforts. Yeah it may be cheaper, but the Soundblaster Z has better drivers and hardware FWIR. Also, I may be able to sell you my Q701 if the upgrade bug bites, but I do agree that they're a great headphone choice.


----------



## Mitchb2020

thanks for the reply

 so the sound blaster Z can drive the q701s?
 how big are the drivers on the q701s btw


----------



## Mitchb2020

also the cheapest i can find the q701s in AUS for are 350 - 400
 amazon will ship to me for 15 dollars to make a total of 250


----------



## Mitchb2020

Just a reminder that my dt990s are 250 us including shipping on ebay
 same username


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mitch, man, hit the edit button instead of posting multiple times. PLEASE.


^This one on the left.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, I didn't put the MA900 in the inner carton thing because.... well I don't even know how it goes, lol. But I placed other crap in there to protect it.... hopefully.


 
  
 Hahaha... it all fell out because I did not expect it to be inside the HP box, itself. It did keep them well protected, though. Great packaging I must say. And I'm digging the bag it came with...
  
 They are on my head, right, now. Man, these things are *COMFORTABLE! *Probably the most comfortable headphone I have ever worn on my head. It's like they are not even there...
  
 As for the sound, by listening to some tracks my first impressions are this... _how much do these cost again_? You are completely right about these being a budget Annie... similar sound sig with massive open space but not as technically refined. I wish I had them to compare. Still, this kind of sound and comfort for such a small open can is a bargain!
  
 Will do a_ lot_ of gaming later and over the weekend... and keep the rest of my impressions based on that. I like my music to sound somewhat closed in like a studio so I don't want to be too biased with my impressions. My Mad Dogs are put away for the weekend because of so.
  
 I agree with you on wishing these had a detachable cable. It _really_ is the only gripe I have with these...
  


evshrug said:


> Are you a midnight security guard too?? @_@


 
  
 Naw, just a person that just hit 30 and went back to school so I'm usually mentally exhausted by the end of the week. No classes or work on Fridays so I sleeps in as much as I can... _when_ I can...


----------



## Mitchb2020

Are the q701s comfy


----------



## Fegefeuer

A pity the ma900 lacks subbass, definitely made me curious.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, using the MA900 on the mixamp do you have the game volume on full? 75%? 50%? I was able to get rid of that static sound with the main knob by turning it back n forth for a minute or so... so I'm using it to adjust volume, now.


----------



## Evshrug

Change,
I know how you feel, work + school IS exhausting, and I just can't skip sleep like I used to. All the more kudos to you and pride you should feel in deciding to get the degree. Also, I now have more insight to why you have practically no money, LOL!

Mitch,
I'll tell you IF you promise to edit a post instead of making a stream of posts  The more posts you make, the more it buries the posts of others, so it's more polite to condense several questions into one post.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Change, I didn't put the MA900 in the inner carton thing because.... well I don't even know how it goes, lol.


 
  
 The bottom of the carton thing folds out and opens up, which gives you room to shove the headphones into the indented spot.  The you fold it back closed and it sort of hugs the headphones in place a little.


----------



## Moskrilla

Hi!
 I am looking for suggestions on if it's possible to upgrade my existing setup to something better for dual PC/Xbox gaming. 
  
 Existing setup:
 - Xbox > Mixamp > ATH-AD700's
 - PC soundcard > ATH-AD700's
  
 What I am thinking of going to:
 - Xbox > Mixamp > FiiO E12 > AKG K702's
 - PC > FiiO E12 > AKG K702's
  
 Currently I have to unplug my headset from the mixamp/pc when I want to switch, but I don't know if that's the only solution going forward or if there is a way to get a switch or hook the mixamp up to both the PC/Xbox and have it auto or play both outputs.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## NamelessPFG

moskrilla said:


> Hi!
> I am looking for suggestions on if it's possible to upgrade my existing setup to something better for dual PC/Xbox gaming.
> 
> Existing setup:
> ...


If that's a decent sound card, you'd be degrading the PC audio experience significantly by replacing it with the E12.

Are the PC and Xbox next to each other? What I do for my consoles is route my SU-DH1's output into my capture card or sound card audio inputs, then configure them to output that audio through my PC's audio output.

It works for me because they use the same monitor and I keep my PC on at all times, but you may not find it as suitable.

Alternatively, there are amps with multiple inputs you can switch between without messing with cables.


----------



## Moskrilla

namelesspfg said:


> Are the PC and Xbox next to each other? What I do for my consoles is route my SU-DH1's output into my capture card or sound card audio inputs, then configure them to output that audio through my PC's audio output.


 
  
 Interesting suggestion, thanks! Yes, the Xbox/PC are both at my desk and the PC is on 24/7.


----------



## Mitchb2020

I ain't never gon edit.


----------



## kenshinhimura

if you keep putting like 5 posts in a row, people will most likely get irritated and block you and then you wont get your future questions read.


----------



## ethan7000




----------



## Mitchb2020

No one saw the irony


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did. 

Two negatives.


----------



## Change is Good

Very impressed with how big of a sound such a small headphone can produce...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How do you feel about the bass? I dunno what genres you listen to, but I certainly don't find them lacking in body for my EDM.


----------



## Change is Good

To me they actually have more body than the Anniversaries. That's what I meant by _big sound_...
  
 I listen to rap/hip hop and there is plenty punch when present. I would say that the bass is between the AE and X1... but with a signature more similar to that of the AE. To those who say this thing lacks sub bass are insane... or extreme bassheads.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Very impressed with how big of a sound such a small headphone can produce...


 
  
 It _does _have 70mm drivers.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Not that driver size is always correlated to how "big" a headphone sounds, but still...
  
 It's basically all driver inside.  Looks like giant KSC75s...


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> It _does _have 70mm drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If these had a detachable cable and thicker pads I would so jump on these at the $150 range. I wonder if Brian at BTG can mod these to have a detachable cable. Also, I wonder if the beyer velours fit without altering its sound.


----------



## Mitchb2020

hey guys im having a tough time making up my mind on what headphone/soundcard to purchase

 im going to have around 300 - 330 AUD to spend so if anyone has the time i would appreciate it if you could recommend a setup 

 right now im thinking about the q701's paired with a Sound Blaster Z
  
 thanks


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> To me they actually have more body than the Anniversaries. That's what I meant by _big sound_...
> 
> I would say that the bass is between the AE and X1... but with a signature more similar to that of the AE. To those who say this thing lacks sub bass are insane... or extreme bassheads.


 
  
 Too bad you don't have your Anniversaries anymore to compare to...


----------



## chicolom

mitchb2020 said:


> hey guys im having a tough time making up my mind on what headphone/soundcard to purchase
> 
> im going to have around 300 - 330 AUD to spend so if anyone has the time i would appreciate it if you could recommend a setup
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought you were going with the X1?  I think that would work better with rap and hip-hop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> To me they actually have more body than the Anniversaries. That's what I meant by _big sound_...
> 
> I listen to rap/hip hop and there is plenty punch when present. I would say that the bass is between the AE and X1... but with a signature more similar to that of the AE. To those who say this thing lacks sub bass are insane... or extreme bassheads.




By sub bass, I'm referring to anything between the 20-35hz range. Compared to the X1, there is definitely much less volume at those frequencies compared to their mid bass. Once you jump to 50hz and up the MA900 fills out quite well, though the X1's broader range fills out the bass more.

But because most music tends to focus on mid bass anyways, the MA900 doesn't lack in bass. Not to mention the Mixamp cuts off at 35hz anyways, so for movies and whatnot, the MA900 is very full sounding, with plenty of bass.


----------



## Mitchb2020

thats not all i listen to though

 and if i went with those thats my whole budget and regardless of headphone onboard sound sucks


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> By sub bass, I'm referring to anything between the 20-35hz range. Compared to the X1, there is definitely much less volume at those frequencies compared to their mid bass. Once you jump to 50hz and up the MA900 fills out quite well, though the X1's broader range fills out the bass more.
> 
> But because most music tends to focus on mid bass anyways, the MA900 doesn't lack in bass. Not to mention the Mixamp cuts off at 35hz anyways, so for movies and whatnot, the MA900 is very full sounding, with plenty of bass.




Have you thought about getting some beyer pads for these? I know they may alter the sound but it may not be by much. And the added comfort will be very welcoming. I have big ears so after a long session they are soar from sitting on the drivers for too long.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course, I complain about double posts, yet here I am.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is a great all rounder regardless, especially if you gravitate towards bass heavy genres.



change is good said:


> Have you thought about getting some beyer pads for these? I know they may alter the sound but it may not be by much. And the added comfort will be very welcoming. I have big ears so after a long session they are soar from sitting on the drivers for too long.




Legit Beyer pads are too expensive, and I might hate the SQ being changed.

As for ears touching the driver cover... after having used the Koss clip ons so much (where your ears are ALWAYS pressed against the driver covers), the MA900 has less pressure than the clip ons, so it's a complete non-issue for me.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is a great all rounder regardless, especially if you gravitate towards bass heavy genres.
> Legit Beyer pads are too expensive, and I might hate the SQ being changed.
> 
> As for ears touching the driver cover... after having used the Koss clip ons so much (where your ears are ALWAYS pressed against the driver covers), the MA900 has less pressure than the clip ons, so it's a complete non-issue for me.




I don't know, man... it's a risk I'd probably take if it was me. Reward weighs more than the risk for my huge ears lol


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> I don't know, man... it's a risk I'd probably take if it was me. Reward weighs more than the risk for my huge ears lol


 
  
 Stop Whining!!
  
 The MA900's comfort is legendary and perfect for _everyone_!!


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Stop Whining!!
> 
> The MA900's comfort is legendary and perfect for _everyone_!!




:'(

If you check my first impression earlier today you'll see I'm not really complainin. I just have HUGE ears...

The Anniversaries even bothered me at times... well, the thinner pads at least...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Stop Whining!!
> 
> The MA900's comfort is legendary and perfect for _everyone_!!




Oh no you didn't. :mad:


----------



## AvroArrow

change is good said:


> If these had a detachable cable and thicker pads I would so jump on these at the $150 range. I wonder if Brian at BTG can mod these to have a detachable cable. Also, I wonder if the beyer velours fit without altering its sound.


 
  
 How much plastic is there above the cable?  From the pictures I've seen of the MA900 there doesn't seem to be much plastic available to shove a female TRS jack into there.  If course, the drivers are 70mm so the relative scale of the outer plastic ring may be deceptive.  The TRS jack I have is 18mm tall so assuming you run the wires 90 degrees perpendicular instead of straight/inline and if there is theoritically maybe 2mm of plastic on either side for the structure/wall, then that plastic ring section needs to be at least 22mm to have a hope of even considering a detachable cable mod.  This is assuming the inside space is empty and the walls are 2mm thick.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I sold the X1... I'd probably hold out for Hifiman to release a new planar... I dunno. I miss their dimensionality and depth.


----------



## chicolom

Whatever happened with that King Sound Stat headphone?  Did it turn out to be any good?
  
 The HE500 is pretty nice as it's less "fun" shaped than the HE400, and IMO more balanced.  Takes 1 watt of amp or whatever though. 
  
 I've never been blown away by a planar's soundstage.  They're usually pretty good, but they don't quite wow me.
  
 I was looking at the T90 recently because it's supposed to have a great soundstage and tons of air, but most people say it's bright as hell - so I think I'm scratching it off the list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, those Tesla Beyers have been mentioned to actually be more fatiguing than the older Premiums. That's why I lost interest.

As for the planar soundstage, I basically mean the depth of the sound, even in stereo. It sounds more rounded off and less linear. It's unlike any dynamic I've heard. It certainly doesn't reach out as much as some of the better dynamics though. I just love their presentation for music though.

As for the Kingsound... having a pretty heated discussion with some of the Stax 'Mafia', who have basically blasted the headphone since before it's release. Now that it's out, they're basically calling it crap. While I take their biased impressions with a grain of salt, I'm not really interested in spending so much for a specialty stat. I'd prefer something more universal to use. 

I honestly don't even want to ever spend that much for headphones ever again, anyways. Something between the HE400 and HE500 in price and signature, with better comfort than both, and planar would be ideal.

I think if they made a lighter HE500... I would jump at it. I'm just tired of Hifiman's design. They need a new design, with pads as good as the HE4's, and weight like the HE4, but not as hard to drive. Like an HE-450...


----------



## chococya96

Are Annie and K701 true 5.1/7.1 headphone?


----------



## FlukeNL

Whenever possible I'd love to see the Samson sr850 and/or Takstar hi 2050 (or equivalents) reviewed, as I see those mentioned on a regular basis for entry-level headphones for gaming. Comparing them to for example the Skullcandy could help me rate headphones vs gaming headsets.
  
 Having said that: I'm already impressed by the amount of work you've been putting into this. I can learn a lot here, so thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chococya96 said:


> Are Annie and K701 true 5.1/7.1 headphone?




Choco, have you read the first post? This is mainly a guide revolving around using stereo headphones with virtual surround devices like the Mixamp which use Dolby Headphone. Dolby headphone simulates surround sound on any standard pair of headphones. The ONLY true surround headphones I have reviewed are the Tritton Ax Pros.

True surround headphones use multiple crappy drivers instead of just 2 really good drivers. All in all, you get much better sound quality when using standard headphones with simulated surround, which sounds basically better than any true surround.

I don't even know why I have to say this, as I mentioned all this on the guide itself, but here you go.


----------



## PurpleAngel

chococya96 said:


> Are Annie and K701 true 5.1/7.1 headphone?


 
 Those "true" 5.1 (6-channel) or 7.1 (8-channel) headphones use lots of very very low cost diaphragms driven by low quality amps, if what even drives those "true 7.1" headphones could be called amps.
  
 Better to have a Headphone 5.1/7.1 Surround Sound device preprocess the surround sound audio and send it thru a quality headphone amplifier to quality 2-channel headphones (like the Annie and K701).
 Our heads only take in 2-channel audio, right ear and left ear, so a 2-channel headphone can easily fool the ears into thinking there are hearing surround sound.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did i read somewhere that the Alpha Dogs are designed with offering a better soundstage also because of MLEs contributions or was i dreaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just think my complaint about the MD's soundstage not being as big as the hyperbole Head-fi as a whole claimed was one of many, many factors that made Dan strive to improved the openness of the Mad Dogs. I'm positive I'm probably a very small factor, as I'm sure Dan has never stopped wanting to improve his headphones.

I'm still skeptical. After all, closed is closed, and no matter what trickery is used, I just don't ever see a closed headphone sounding open. "Large soundstage for a closed headphone" is about as much as I expect from ANY closed headphone. I think part if it is due to the ruined isolation caused by open headphones. Hearing just a little external influence may trick our brains into a bigger sense of openness in sound. If you're completely closed off from external noise (no matter how low or silent a room is), I just think our brains will perceive it as closed sounding.

Still, I'm interested in hearing what feats the Alpha Dogs are capable of.


----------



## Mitchb2020

MLE have you used Razer Surround before, its supposed to work like dolby headphone and simulate 7.1 surround ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I didn't like it at all. Rear audio cues are useless in comparison to DH and THS Tru Studio, imo.


----------



## Mitchb2020

i've settled on the q701s as it sounds like they give good overall sound, not sure if the bass will be good
 just to clarify i don't want boomy bass i just want to be able to hear it!
  
 now im not sure if you know a lot about sound cards (i presume you do)
 but which would you recommend for the q701s
  
 im trying to decide between these
  
 http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=211&products_id=13190
 http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=211&products_id=22196
 http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=211&products_id=21183
  
 im leaning towards the asus dx but i don't think i has a headphone amp


----------



## dakanao

Is there a headphone out there with good bass for rap/hiphop and dubstep, and forward midrange with smooth, but realistic treble?


----------



## Evshrug

Mitch,
I do believe the Asus DG is recommended in the DH in a soundcard camp, because it has a decent amp. Fact-check me though. Personally I would pick the SoundBlaster for the drivers.


----------



## Mitchb2020

evshrug said:


> Mitch,
> I do believe the Asus DG is recommended in the DH in a soundcard camp, because it has a decent amp. Fact-check me though. Personally I would pick the SoundBlaster for the drivers.



Dh ? 
Thanks


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> i've settled on the q701s as it sounds like they give good overall sound, not sure if the bass will be good
> just to clarify i don't want boomy bass i just want to be able to hear it!
> 
> now im not sure if you know a lot about sound cards (i presume you do)
> ...



DH = Dolby Headphone. I've owned all three cards. The Z is best for music. Go with the DX if you want DH for gaming. The sound of the DGX is poor, akin to today's onboard. If you go DX, be aware that you need a 4-pin power cable that can reach it and you may need to use the Unified Driver if you get crashes.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Can the dx drive the q701s?? 


ethan7000 said:


> DH = Dolby Headphone. I've owned all three cards. The Z is best for music. Go with the DX if you want DH for gaming. The sound of the DGX is poor, akin to today's onboard. If you go DX, be aware that you need a 4-pin power cable that can reach it and you may need to use the Unified Driver if you get crashes.


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> Can the dx drive the q701s??



That's a good question. The Z has a dedicated headphone amp (http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/7138) and lower output impedance, I'm not sure if the DX ouputs sound straight out of a single opamp or what not. Maybe someone here has paired the DX with the Q701 and can tell you their results.


----------



## Evshrug

Mitch,
 Dolby Headphone is what Mad likes to use for surround processing. I like Creative's last effort, THX TruStudio Pro because it had less echo and distortion, but they're pretty close. Creative's Soundblaster Z has the newer SBX for surround processing, amp, and also includes a beamforming microphone that does a decent job. I suggested the DG if you like DH because PurpleAngel has been recommending that as a budget sound card for a year.


----------



## Mitchb2020

I have around 100 to spend though 
The only asus card in that range is the dx 
So i may go with the SoundBlaster z


----------



## PurpleAngel

mitchb2020 said:


> I've settled on the q701s as it sounds like they give good overall sound, not sure if the bass will be good
> just to clarify i don't want boomy bass i just want to be able to hear it!
> now im not sure if you know a lot about sound cards (i presume you do)
> but which would you recommend for the q701s
> ...


 
 The SB-Z (Sound Blaster Z) comes with the same DAC chip (CS4398) as the Xonar DX, but the DX does not have a true headphone amplifier and also has a high impedance.
 Where as the SB-Z has a headphone amplifier and a lower output impedance.
 The DG has a lower quality DAC chip (but still decent) and a headphone amplifier.
 So I'm guess the SB-Z is the best pick.


----------



## ethan7000

purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z (Sound Blaster Z) comes with the same DAC chip (CS4398) as the Xonar DX, but the DX does not have a true headphone amplifier and also has a high impedance.
> Where as the SB-Z has a headphone amplifier and a lower output impedance.
> The DG has a lower quality DAC chip (but still decent) and a headphone amplifier.
> So I'm guess the SB-Z is the best pick.



SB-Z is what I kept out of the 3. DG/DGX really sounds lackluster.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Thankyou  


purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z (Sound Blaster Z) comes with the same DAC chip (CS4398) as the Xonar DX, but the DX does not have a true headphone amplifier and also has a high impedance.
> Where as the SB-Z has a headphone amplifier and a lower output impedance.
> The DG has a lower quality DAC chip (but still decent) and a headphone amplifier.
> So I'm guess the SB-Z is the best pick.







ethan7000 said:


> SB-Z is what I kept out of the 3. DG/DGX really sounds lackluster.


----------



## Skipshrike

The SB-Z provides a well rounded option for both gaming and music. The control panel is easy to use and provides ample opportunities for adjusting the output. I really like how easy it is to save preset profiles.


----------



## LB Felipe

Why has Fidelio X1 been removed from list labeled as "Competitive"?​


----------



## AxelCloris

Ignore me, nothing to see here. Replying to something that has already been answered.


----------



## Mitchb2020

What? Haha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lb felipe said:


> Why has Fidelio X1 been removed from list labeled as "Competitive"?​




I reduced the size of the list, and kept basically what I felt was the cream of the crop. The X1 is still on both tbe fun and all rounder list. For competitive,I put I what I felt was truly on the top. The X1 is great, not amazing for competitive gaming. Just because a headphone is not on one of those list does not make them less viable. It's just a quick reference for those looking for just straight out competitive use. The X1's bass is a bit too prominent and one note-ish, and a little distracting at times.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I must thank you for giving me a chance to hear these MA900s. After a full day and night of watching movies, playing some BF3, and listening to a couple tracks... I now see why you covet these so much. They do everything so well and at times feel like nothing is on your head.
  
 Personally, I think these are more to my liking than the X1 was. I like how its bass doesn't have a negative effect on competitive games... especially those such as BF3 in which you are constantly hearing explosions and chaos from all the vehicles involved. That was something the X1 was too overpowering on... making it impossible sometimes to key in on my immediate surroundings.


----------



## LB Felipe

Thanks, Mad. 

   
  

  What I'd like: great for gaming, low leak out, great for movies, good for music and amazing comfort. 

   
  

  So can I say AKG 712 PRO is the way to go for me? 

   
  

  I'm  among HE-400, MA900, X1 and K712 PRO (since K702 65th Annie is discontinued).

   
  

  For gaming, I want to hear pinpoints, to have good sound stage and positional audio (am a FPS lover), but I lay down a little of that for better comfort, leak out, movie performance and music listening.


----------



## davidsh

How's the new recon3d coming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love how people ask for EVERYTHING in a headphone. Lol.

You can't have it all. Always trade offs. Ask yourself what's most important.

Since you want low leak, you better stop looking into open headphones. Since you can't look at open headphones, this means you get the reduced performance of closed headphones, etc.

Unless you have someone in the same room, most open headphones don't leak out to the point of bothering someone in another room. But noise leak out is always gonna happen with open headphones.

As for what you want, that's why i made the all rounder list. Look into those, as far as my own recommendations. The Annie is still sold today. K712 is gonna be a slightly different take on the same sound, and then you have the MA900, X1 as other all rounders.


----------



## Change is Good

I'd like a muscle car with major horse power... that saves money on gas...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I'd like a muscle car with major horse power... that saves money on gas...




You'd be surprised at how many private messages I get asking about gaming headphones (even when I specifically state not to message me about it). They always ask the same things:

"What can you recommend for a gaming headphone that has good bass, good mids, good treble, big soundstage, good positioning, comfort, easy to drive, not so expensive"


Gee... so you want EVERYTHING?

Once in a while, I'll have someone ask me at least something feasible, like good balance, without overpowering bass, slightly smooth, etc.


----------



## LB Felipe

I know it.
  
 You told AKG K702 65th Annie has a good leak out for a open headphone.
  
 The priority is even positional gaming. So, by elimination, open headphone are the right choice.
  
 Excuse for I 'm not manifesting me so well, but I don't know speak English.
  
 I hope you had understood my asking. In other word, among those headphones I've listed, what's your recommendation for me?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Go for the K712 Pro, unless you need a LOT of noise leak control.


----------



## Mitchb2020

#beats


mad lust envy said:


> You'd be surprised at how many private messages I get asking about gaming headphones (even when I specifically state not to message me about it). They always ask the same things:
> 
> "What can you recommend for a gaming headphone that has good bass, good mids, good treble, big soundstage, good positioning, comfort, easy to drive, not so expensive"
> 
> ...


----------



## LB Felipe

Thank you very much, Mad.
  
 Actually, leak out is a my minor concern. I just need a pair of headphone that doesn't leak so much that it does the sound goes through the door of my room.
  
 That said, is your recommendation kept?


----------



## Skipshrike

change is good said:


> Mad, I must thank you for giving me a chance to hear these MA900s. After a full day and night of watching movies, playing some BF3, and listening to a couple tracks... I now see why you covet these so much. They do everything so well and at times feel like nothing is on your head.
> 
> Personally, I think these are more to my liking than the X1 was. I like how its bass doesn't have a negative effect on competitive games... especially those such as BF3 in which you are constantly hearing explosions and chaos from all the vehicles involved. That was something the X1 was too overpowering on... making it impossible sometimes to key in on my immediate surroundings.


 
  
 BF3 TDM is a bit overwhelming with the X1's. Definitely. It's a thought like this that is making look at getting a third headphone. But, I do love the feeling that I am actually there--or in a movie. Yippee ki yay!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No open headphone is gonna bother someone not in the same room with the door closed. Unless you have it loud enough to cause ear damage, most won't even bother if the door is open.

Open headphone leak is over exaggerated anyways. Depending on how loud you listen, you may not even bother someone in the same room. I've used all of my open headphones even with people around, and no one complains.

Yes. The K712/Annie would be my best recommendation as the true all rounders, if you can afford them and have a good form of amping. Otherwise, you can't go wrong with the MA900, though the MA900 leaks out more than any other headphone I've tried that isn't Planar magnetic/stat.


----------



## miceblue

Well if you listen to music at insanely loud volume levels like many people at local meets do, then the noise leakage is a huge problem especially when you can hear someone else's music over your own headphones over the background chatter.
  
 -_-
  
 I also hate it when people let you listen to their headphones and they control the volume knob. Say the volume knob is at the 3 o'clock position:
  
 Person: Is this too loud for you?
 Me: Uh...hellz yeah it is! Tune it down back to 9 o'clock please.


----------



## LB Felipe

I just am asking for a better choice.
  
 I never am asking for a recommendation of headphones that are great for all.
  
 It's because that I made a list where is those good choices what I guess.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> Well if you listen to music at insanely loud volume levels like many people at local meets do, then the noise leakage is a huge problem especially when you can hear someone else's music over your own headphones over the background chatter.
> 
> -_-




That happens in sub-optimal situation like meets. If you're in public, chances are, you're not gonna be using open headphones. For home use, it's doubtful you'd ever need that much volume.


----------



## Skipshrike

I rarely go above 8% on the windows volume slider. Anything above that just starts to hurt.


----------



## LB Felipe

Thank you once more, Mad, for your recommendations and patience.
  
 Quote:


miceblue said:


> Well if you listen to music at insanely loud volume levels like many people at local meets do, then the noise leakage is a huge problem especially when you can hear someone else's music over your own headphones over the background chatter.
> 
> -_-
> 
> ...


 
  
 I just want people out of my room don't hear the audio from videos at dawn. 
  
 My apologies. I just realized now that miceblu is a girl. Please, gorget that crap I said.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

skipshrike said:


> I rarely go above 8% on the windows volume slider. Anything above that just starts to hurt.




My bad, it seems PC master volume is upsampled as to not lose audio quality from the OS volume (Vista and newer). What you DON'T wanna do is lower software volume control.


----------



## LB Felipe

K712 PRO $500
 MA900 $300
  
 Oh dilemma


----------



## DemonFox

lb felipe said:


> K712 PRO $500
> MA900 $300
> 
> Oh dilemma




$500?? Razordogaudio.com has them for like $385 I think. 

Wait, am I helping or hurting lol


Thanks,

:evil:


----------



## LB Felipe

Thanks, guy.
  
 But I live in Brazil.
  
 I have taken those prices from BH Photo & Video.
  
 Hey there it is $500 as well.
  
 http://www.razordogaudio.com/collections/frontpage/products/akg-k712-pro-open-back-reference-studio-headphone


----------



## DemonFox

lb felipe said:


> Thanks, guy.
> 
> But I live in Brazil.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
Now through Sept. 15th, get $115 off the NEW K712 PRO with coupon code RAZORDOGK712
  
  
Thanks,


----------



## chicolom

miceblue said:


> Well if you listen to music at insanely loud volume levels like many people at local meets do, then the noise leakage is a huge problem especially when you can hear someone else's music over your own headphones over the background chatter.
> 
> -_-
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha
  
 Yes.  I've noticed that as well.  How can their ears take that much volume?
  
_*Person gives me a headphone then turns the volume several "o'clocks" past comfortable listening level*_
 Person:  So...how does this headphone sound to you?
 Me:  Hmm...._LOUD!!   _
  
  


lb felipe said:


> K712 PRO $500
> MA900 $300
> 
> Oh dilemma


 
  
  
 That's not too far off from the price difference here.
  
 MA900 ~$189
 K712    ~$385


----------



## Skipshrike

Hmm at that price headphone that will cover applications that the X1 doesn't....
  
 If the Sound Blaster Z can power them then my willpower will be tested.


----------



## 0verlord

While everyone is talking about sound cards, what sound card is recommended for gaming usage (Dolby Headphone, I guess?) for the Senn PC 360? I believe someone mentioned an Asus card, however, there seems to have been a few more brought up and I'm wondering what would best fit my usage scenario.


----------



## Evshrug

davidsh said:


> How's the new recon3d coming?



I am greatly anticipating the possibility, I asked Creative's social media team a question about using their products on a Mac and console, like an update to the Recon3D USB, and they hinted that there may be something to address that "trend that is clearly growing" and I might hear from them in the coming months. I don't think it's been long enough yet, not been quite a month yet since that email, but I am anticipating great things. In the meantime, I am re-acquiring a Recon3D USB and I intend to compare them someday. 



lb felipe said:


> I know it.
> You told AKG K702 65th Annie has a good leak out for a open headphone.
> The priority is even positional gaming. So, by elimination, open headphone are the right choice.
> 
> ...



The fact that you aren't a native English speaker, yet you used the word "manifesting," makes you awesome in my view. 
Among the headphones you listed, with your preferences, I would suggest either the Sony or AKG headphone. Everyone so far has been surprisingly pleased with the MA900, it gives you everything you need and is very easy to live with, but the AKG provides that extra 2% of wow that will spoil you from anything less.


----------



## xero404

^Check out nameless's guide here. Lotsa ideas and setups for each budget.

I'd also like to take a moment to thanks MLE for this thread for I would not have gotten the x1 without it. Should have my mad dogs 3.2 in by Monday for my closed set. Now just gotta find a portable for my work and commute set. Been getting less and less inclined to use IEMS nowadays. Maybe when the wallet recovers a bit i'll look into some Beyer 1350s . Gotta go put the beats on ebay and Prolly should sell my second set of X1s. 

Just finished Bioshock Infinite and i didn't even turn on my z5500 once since i got the X1s. Definitely also have been "rediscovering" music esp old EDM and oh what a difference a little bit of bass makes. So much more enjoyable than the HD280s. Since i've been playing A TON of Dota 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7H30B013I0


----------



## Evshrug

So, it seems having a little more income has proven to be much more expensive, lol.

Xero, I know what you mean. How'd you like Bioshock Infinite? I'm up for watching a little DotA 2, I haven't found a mentor or fellow noob to play with/learn from yet.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> So, it seems having a little more income has proven to be much more expensive, lol.
> 
> Xero, I know what you mean. How'd you like Bioshock Infinite? I'm up for watching a little DotA 2, I haven't found a mentor or fellow noob to play with/learn from yet.


 
  
 If I may interject with my own thoughts, I'm in the middle of Bioshock Infinite and I'm absolutely loving it. Picked it up the day it came out for Mac. The story is pulling me in so much it's almost nuts. I'm also loving the atmosphere of the game a lot more than I did the feel of the original Bioshock. Plus, it's absolutely wonderful zipping around Columbia on the rails and then launching down on top of someone. I began playing the game in stereo, and I can already hear the groans of the others in this thread. But I didn't have my Recon3D at the time to try surround with the game. And right off the bat, around the point where I was coming up to the lottery I found myself greatly missing the surround sound effect. Even though nothing critical was going on, just simply the music from the fairgrounds moving left to right felt so unnatural. But again, this is all due to me playing in stereo.


----------



## Evshrug

AxelCloris,
A welcome interjection.
I just noticed Newegg has a discount on an Infinity download code... $16. Of course, I just re bought a Recon3D USB myself (I can already hear the groans... Jk guys!) and a few other treats, and I must cool down the wallet exercise for a little while. Bioshock: Infinity, Metro: Last Light, Borderlands 2, and even Destiny are on my "definite buy" list, but I have a backlog of other awesome games I bought to play too (Skyrim, Mass Effect 3, Knights of the Old Republic (probably will play on Mac), KotOR 2 (must play on PC, with troubleshooting, sadly), Dishonored, the last few levels of Tomb Raider after windows needed to be re-installed mid-game, Batman Arkham City for the 360...).

Also, awesome new logo, loving the effort.


----------



## AxelCloris

If you do pick up BL2 and you're playing on PC/Mac I'd love to play with you sometime. I'm on steam under the same name. Easy to find. If you have Skyrim and ME3 ahead of you, you're in for some major treats. ME3 has one of the best stories in years. Notice how I didn't say endings.  And Skyrim is far and away my favorite open world RPG just after Fallout: New Vegas. Dishonored I have in my queue as well, but I haven't touched it yet. I was planning to before Bioshock: Infinite, but when they released the Mac client through Steam, I installed it and went on my merry way.
  
 I love the logo myself as well. Unfortunately I cannot take any credit for the design. I was talking with an industrial design buddy of mine, trying to get a little inspiration from him to create one. Between leaving work and coming home, he sends me a file, "something like this?" I absolutely love the work he put into it. It's almost creepy how there are several subtle layers to it that convey something about me but aren't necessarily obvious or direct. So what started out as an aside between friends turned into him getting an inspiration and creating this. Wish I could take credit for it; but credit where it's due, it was all him.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would love one of those for my youtube channel avatar. 

I seriously need an editor...


----------



## Evshrug

Axel,
I played the first few missions, feels like a refreshing change of pace, I find myself morally challenged to replay missions over and over not to kill anyone innocent, but even that gets challenged... and it has the same feel of smart, polished gameplay design like in Beyond Good and Evil. Once I get BL2, I'll take you up on your offer 

Mad,
Are you asking, or just talking?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I would love one of those for my youtube channel avatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 An program to edit the videos? A person to edit them? A person to edit your writing?
  
 I don't have a degree in Electronic Media specializing in Audio Engineering and Video Production for nothing.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> An program to edit the videos? A person to edit them? A person to edit your writing?
> 
> I don't have a degree in Electronic Media specializing in Audio Engineering and Video Production for nothing.



Oh, I thought you did it for fun?


----------



## Baby Face Tony

The Koss KSC75's and a AntLion modmic seem like the dreamteam pair for budget gaming, total of about $45 on Amazon. A bit more and maybe I could get the Skull Candy Slyr but I might miss out on the "directionality is accurate" of the KSC75's also their clip-on comfort, cool and lightweight.
  
 The lightweight and cool is key, I currently use Logitech's Ultimate Ear signature UE6000 which I love their looks, the noice cancelling, bundled splitter, case and in-line remote for smartphones. The UE6000 have been heaven for me except I cant wear them long before my ears ache, the driver presses onto my ears and disappointing because the heat.
  
 I'm planning on downgrading to get the light KSC75's because I need comfort even though I'm sacrificing a bunch by switching from my UE6000. Still questioning between that dreamteam KSC75+modmic  or Skullcandy SLYR whatcha guys think has better comfort?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you've never used a clip on, it might take a little while before the Koss clips become a non-issue. Like a few days to a week. After that, its like youre not wearing anything.

The Slyr is incredibly comfy, though you may have to tuck your ears in to get them inside the cups, instead of just letting the pads rest on the ears.

Overall, the Koss is more comfy (THE most comfortable of all headphones for me, while the MA900 and Siberia v1 are the most comfy fullsized for me ). I dunno how you plan on attaching the mod mic though. Not much area on the clip ons, lol.


----------



## modulor

You'll have better results attaching the ModMic to the PortaPro (or even SportaPro) but it may be difficult on the KSC75.  I use mine on the PortaPro as my travel headset and it works great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Sportapro headband assembly sucks though. Still, I would definitely recommend getting the Sportapro just to snap off the KSC35 drivers that it comes with, and using those with either the Parts express headband or Yuin G1A/KSC75 clips.

Speaking of, I need to reacquire some Yuin clips.

As always, if you get the KSC75, make sure to bend in the drivers closer to the clips, as in their default state, there is a lot of distance between the driver and your ear, and you'll lose a lot of bass, and make them very treble oriented. The closer the KSC75 is pressed to the ear, the better.


----------



## xero404

evshrug said:


> So, it seems having a little more income has proven to be much more expensive, lol.
> 
> Xero, I know what you mean. How'd you like Bioshock Infinite? I'm up for watching a little DotA 2, I haven't found a mentor or fellow noob to play with/learn from yet.


 
  
 Yeah i'm trying to convince myself the upgrade to a bifrost uber to match the asgard 2 but maybe i won't even hear the difference between that and the Titanium HD. Although an Fiio e17 would be nice for a work/commute setup but i hear they are buggy with android so i'm waiting out for the e18. 

 Bioshock Infinite was pretty great. Alot shorter than i expected def much better with the 3D sound since the AI LOVES to flank you (stupid crow soldiers). Sorta unexpected ending since i was a fan of the original Bioshock game (I was pretty giddy when the referenced it). Can't wait for the Burial at Sea DLC. 

 Been playing dota since the wc3 mod and i never really made it past just a casual gamer. My skills just never get past a certain point so i'm pretty noob friendly. add me up on steam and we can setup some bot matches (same as head-fi name). 

 Also i'm pretty tempted to get a mixamp for my ps3 since GTA5 will be out in the next couple weeks and It'll give me a reason to plug in the PS3 lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Finished Infinite myself (my first full playthrough of a Bioshock game, since I didn't like the other two).

Did NOT like the ending... but yeah, other than all that stuff in the end (started disliking it once they went to the Asylum), I enjoyed the game.


----------



## Bonezz

Im torn between the AKG K550 or the Sony MA900
 Do u have any experience with the K550 Mad lust envy ?
 Comfort wise and competitve wise?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Demoed it at the store. I don't like it. At all. Even took my own amp. Its so cold, lifeless. No thanks.


----------



## widdyjudas

Just changed my X1 cable to aftermarket one (monster cable 100 DIY I guess) for 7usd. I can hear some improvement, but not much. Bass more controlled (although still bit too much) and treble more pronounced.
 Question MLE, what is the difference with using silver cable? It cost 7 times the normal aftermarket cable, but what kind of improvement over the normal one?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know the difference in metals. I just know the difference in going from the high resistance stock cable to lower and lower resistance tightens the bass a smidge and makes the headphone slightly brighter. All very subtle.


----------



## widdyjudas

I mean the difference in sound from normal aftermarket and silver cable.
 I can definitely hear the sound improved. it becomes more bright and the bass becomes more controlled, although still bit too much.
 Problem is, this new cable is so thick and stiff. It put more weights and becomes less comfortable over the philips one. I'm also afraid it will put more strain with the X1 input jack
 Here the picture comparison.


----------



## kman1211

widdyjudas said:


> I mean the difference in sound from normal aftermarket and silver cable.
> I can definitely hear the sound improved. it becomes more bright and the bass becomes more controlled, although still bit too much.
> Problem is, this new cable is so thick and stiff. It put more weights and becomes less comfortable over the philips one. I'm also afraid it will put more strain with the X1 input jack
> Here the picture comparison.


 
 I don't have a lot of experience with cables, but I do have a couple silver-plated copper cables, one on my AKGs and one connecting the amp to my sound card. The main differences I noticed is better coherency, transparency, dynamics, extension, and a more controlled sound. I haven't noticed any increase of brightness over the old cables, the old cables were slightly harsher sounding actually.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Silver is the best conductor
But looks cheaper than gold


----------



## 0verlord

0verlord said:


> While everyone is talking about sound cards, what sound card is recommended for gaming usage (Dolby Headphone, I guess?) for the Senn PC 360? I believe someone mentioned an Asus card, however, there seems to have been a few more brought up and I'm wondering what would best fit my usage scenario.



 


Jumping off my last question, is a sound card required to get virtual surround (Dolby Headphone)?


----------



## ethan7000

0verlord said:


> 0verlord said:
> 
> 
> > While everyone is talking about sound cards, what sound card is recommended for gaming usage (Dolby Headphone, I guess?) for the Senn PC 360? I believe someone mentioned an Asus card, however, there seems to have been a few more brought up and I'm wondering what would best fit my usage scenario.
> ...



If your onboard sound outputs Dolby Digital Live (optical) you could use a little external unit like a DSS v.1 or a mixamp. Check eBay for good prices used.


----------



## widdyjudas

I'm just concerned the stiffness and heavy of the new cable will put strain on X1 input jack. I heard that it quite fragile. I don't know that this cable is so stiff and heavy, since I bought it online.
 Is it wise to continue using the cable? Or just buy lighter better cable.


----------



## Mitchb2020

If it concerns you take weight and pressure of the headphone by say resting the majority of the cable on your desk and give it some extra slack
A cheap light cable can be had for 5 bucks


widdyjudas said:


> I'm just concerned the stiffness and heavy of the new cable will put strain on X1 input jack. I heard that it quite fragile. I don't know that this cable is so stiff and heavy, since I bought it online.
> Is it wise to continue using the cable? Or just buy lighter better cable.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Don't think this qualifies as a double post

Should i get a
Q701s + sbz
Or
Fidelio x1s and the sbz later 

As the q701s cost 350 together 
And the Fidelio x1s cost 340


----------



## widdyjudas

mitchb2020 said:


> If it concerns you take weight and pressure of the headphone by say resting the majority of the cable on your desk and give it some extra slack
> A cheap light cable can be had for 5 bucks


 
 I bought this cable cheap, 7usd for 1 meter. I just don't know its very thick and stiff. I think it supposed to be speaker cable, not for headphone. However, it does improves X1 sound over the original cable
 Since its short and stiff, It can't be put on my desk. It will slide down my table.


----------



## Kamakahah

Some neutrik plugs, half stripped Canare or Mogami cable with some paracord sleeving and you have a great, light cable for cheap


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> Just changed my X1 cable to aftermarket one (monster cable 100 DIY I guess) for 7usd. I can hear some improvement, but not much. Bass more controlled (although still bit too much) and treble more pronounced.
> Question MLE, what is the difference with using silver cable? It cost 7 times the normal aftermarket cable, but what kind of improvement over the normal one?







mitchb2020 said:


> Silver is the best conductor
> But looks cheaper than gold



Yes, silver conducts electricity better than any metal/element on the periodic table. Copper has some advantages – cost, weight as you guys noted and I think flexibility – but both oxidize (rust & tarnish) which can make an exposed plug have a poor connection. Gold is very soft and doesn't oxidize, so it can be used to make a very solid/tight connection, but chrome also resists rust (Oxygen doesnt make it rust, and it forms an oxide layer on top of itself) and does a fair job of staying stable so long as it doesn't get scratched off.
The exact audio qualities of a silver cable are honestly still a mystery for me, but it seems logical that it might better preserve the signal since it's easier for the electricity to "flow." I have a custom-AKG silver cable saved in my eBay wishlist out of curiosity, though honestly I only found it because I was looking for a shorter cable that cost less than AKG's MSRP 





xero404 said:


> Yeah i'm trying to convince myself the upgrade to a bifrost uber to match the asgard 2 but maybe i won't even hear the difference between that and the Titanium HD. Although an Fiio e17 would be nice for a work/commute setup but i hear they are buggy with android so i'm waiting out for the e18.
> 
> Bioshock Infinite was pretty great. Alot shorter than i expected def much better with the 3D sound since the AI LOVES to flank you (stupid crow soldiers). Sorta unexpected ending since i was a fan of the original Bioshock game (I was pretty giddy when the referenced it). Can't wait for the Burial at Sea DLC.
> 
> ...




That's two people that want to be added to my so-far empty Steam friend's list. Ignorant question, uuuuh... How do you add a friend? I usually check Steam via the iOS app, lol, and I don't see the option. I'll look at my PC client tomorrow, gotta sleep now. And please, don't think less of me, ahahahaha!


Mitch,
2 posts in a row do count as double-posting, all you have to do is add your second thought to the first post by using the edit button. Press it press it press it!

 Aaaaaaaand... I'd say having a good system (headphone, amp, DAC, and virtual surround) is a bigger benefit than just plugging your headphones into your motherboard. I have a DSS as well, and it only sounds "ok" with good headphones plugged in. Honestly, the Q701 has stayed in my stable (and used to be in Chico's for about a year, Mad's for over I think a whole month, used to be his top all-rounder pick) because it is no slouch. Others may say it is lighter in bass than headphone X or Y *but for most instrument's audible range, it has above neutral/recording master bass levels.* Upper mids and the extremes of the audible frequency range wobble around the neutral line a bit, but on the whole it is very balanced, better extended, and technically proficient compared to the average headphone, and still a strong value at it's price point (and up). You might end up preferring the Q701 over the X1 anyway.

^the above paragraph makes me feel crazy for spending more money on another AKG, but at least I know I'm likely to like it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

ethan7000 said:


> If your onboard sound outputs Dolby Digital Live (optical) you could use a little external unit like a DSS v.1 or a mixamp. Check eBay for good prices used.


 
  
 It would work, but unless you plan on using those external units with a console as well, you'd get far more bang for the buck with a cheap sound card.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Haha harder to do on my phone than you think
Double quotes that is

Silver is the best conductor slightly 
Although copper is the second most conductive i think and is flexible! 
Even silver plated will be limited by the copper cabling 

I think you convinced me to get the q701s as they are all rounders


----------



## benbenkr

Okay guys... this may be a little bit off topic by the end but I think I need to speak on something here.
  
 So I've gotten Sony to lend me a MA900 and I've been playing Outlast over the weekend. Like MLE has explained over the past week or so, this is legitimately a budget Annie, so good till the point where I see no reason to ever get the Annie at its current price point (not including the fact you need some proper amping).
  
 Not going to repeat what has already been said countless times, but everything that has been regarded upon the MA900 so far speaks for itself. As was expected when I tested them earlier at a store briefly though, comfort is an issue for me personally however.
 It is extremely light, but the fact that the drivers do touch my ears mean that I needed to take the MA900 off every hour or so before the antihelix of my ear starts to hurt like hell.
 The headband could a little more padding too if I were to nitpick, but yeah... those with ears with their antihelix being more angled than most, do take note. As comfortable the MA900 is, it will hurt regardless.
  
 Now for the off-topic part, you guys need to play Outlast. It's jump-scare fest of a horror title, so it isn't a haunting experience like Amnesia. But holy crap... I think I shat my pants a couple of times playing the game, the soundstage on the MA900 seriously puts this game to justice.
 The MA900 forced me to pick up on the little unheard details that I otherwise wouldn't want to hear (some of which are really, really sick messages), it's an frighteningly entertaining experience. The screaming of the... whatever those damn things are, my gosh... it just makes me want to punch my screen LOL! It's a good sort of scare though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mitchb2020 said:


> Haha harder to do on my phone than you think
> Double quotes that is
> 
> Silver is the best conductor slightly
> ...




I feel the MA900 makes a better all rounder due to less amping requirement, more fun factor and bass. Not to mention, cheaper. The Q701 is more competitive oriented than an all rounder. It still may lack a little in bass. It wasn't until the Annie was released that I felt AKG finally got bass at least to a well balanced point from the 70x drivers.


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Like MLE has explained over the past week or so, this is legitimately a budget Annie, so good till the point where I see no reason to ever get the Annie at its current price point (not including the fact you need some proper amping).


 
  
  
 I guess it makes sense to call the MA900 a budget anniversary if your talking about it being a pretty balanced sounding headphone with a good soundstage that's good for gaming.  I'm not sure I'd call the MA900 a "budget Anniversary" from a sound-wise perspective though, just because the MA900 doesn't sound all that much like the Anniversary.  Sure they both have a pretty balanced signature, but they're still two different sounding headphones with different soundstages/presentations and different signatures.  They sound as different as any other two headphones I've tried from two different makers, maybe a little more so because of the MA900's unique design which tends to give it a pretty unique sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They definitely do sound different. I'd rather call it the cheaper alternative to the Annie. Not a cheaper Annie.  If anything, it's like a bridge between the HD650 and Q701 in terms of sound presentation. More so than the Annie.

Basically what I've said of the Mad Dogs vs the LCD2. A cheaper alternative.


----------



## chicolom

An alternative makes more sense.
  
 Calling a Denon D2000 a "budget D5000" makes sense, but I doubt most people would even call a HD5x8 a "budget HD6x0" as they're two different sounds.   Same thing with the MA900 and Anniversary.


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Now for the off-topic part, you guys need to play Outlast.


 
  
  
 That game looks sick (both in a good way and literally 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 At first I was bummed that it was for PCs, because my PC is weak and can't handle modern games, but I just read that it's _also_ coming to PS4.  Yet another reason to get one.


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> I guess it makes sense to call the MA900 a budget anniversary if your talking about it being a pretty balanced sounding headphone with a good soundstage that's good for gaming.  I'm not sure I'd call the MA900 a "budget Anniversary" from a sound-wise perspective though, just because the MA900 doesn't sound all that much like the Anniversary.  Sure they both have a pretty balanced signature, but they're still two different sounding headphones with different soundstages/presentations and different signatures.  They sound as different as any other two headphones I've tried from two different makers, maybe a little more so because of the MA900's unique design which tends to give it a pretty unique sound.


 
  
 I agree with the "unique" aspect and don't think that any headphone can be a budget version of a better one, neither is it fair to "reduce" them but it happens a lot because there's also the aspect of people believing in getting something of the other one for less money (a certain wishful thinking, no offence). For instance the grainy treble of the AKGs and their oval soundstage with lack of a good phantom center and general soundstage depth should never be called a "80% HD 800" or budget version of it just because they seem similar to some in tonality and in having a big soundstage. It happens a lot though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just bought Sine Mora for $2.49 for Steam. WOOT. I needed something to play. @_@


----------



## chicolom

My KSC75s sound like budget SR009s!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really wanna hear the SR009.

With the recent price drop of the Fostex TH-900... I feel I can sell a limb and finally acquire it for myself. I think it's the flagship for me, considering it's the ultimate D7000 successor.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How much is it over there? It's $2250 in Germany, I got it for $1800. That's a bargain over here.


----------



## Naingolann

Outlast is amazing and suggest everyone to give it a try. I almost gave up on playing it because I was too scared, but I really want to know how the story ends. And man, DAT music...gives me cold sweat. I'm still going to beat it...someday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> How much is it over there? It's $2250 in Germany, I got it for $1800. That's a bargain over here. :evil:




It's $1500 new now. Headamp and Moon-Audio both sell it here domestically, while everywhere else (i.e. Amazon) still imports.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Okay but how much better is the bass in the q701s compared to the ad700s


----------



## Fegefeuer

go get it NOW and forget about everything else.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> go get it NOW and forget about everything else. :evil:




Lol, if only I could.

I'd be happy with a 900 duo.

TH-900 + MA-900. 

Mitch, the Q701 is much better than the AD700 in terms of bass.


----------



## Mitchb2020

so lets say we have a bass scale
 the ad 700s are a 1
 the scale goes up to 100
 where the x1s and q701s fit


----------



## chicolom

naingolann said:


> Outlast is amazing and suggest everyone to give it a try. I almost gave up on playing it because I was too scared, but I really want to know how the story ends. And man, DAT music...gives me cold sweat. I'm still going to beat it...someday.


 
  
 Once the PS4 is out and has settled in, I will buckle down and play it. 
  
 It will be intense, but those types of games are some of the most exhilarating experiences you can have with headphones + virtual surround.
  


mad lust envy said:


> It's $1500 new now. Headamp and Moon-Audio both sell it here domestically, while everywhere else (i.e. Amazon) still imports.


 
  
 With their price drop, the ones on the FS forum have also dropped in price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I could score the TH-900 for $800, sure, that's as much as I could throw at it.

Mitch...

On a 1-10 scale for quantity and presence (7 what I consider neutral bass):

AD700: 3
old K701: 6
Q701: 6.5
MA900: 7.25
Annie: 7.75
X1: 8.5


----------



## Mitchb2020

HMMMMM the q701s for 250 $
 or the annies for 800 $
  
 tough one


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How much is the MA900?


----------



## benbenkr

chicolom said:


> I guess it makes sense to call the MA900 a budget anniversary if your talking about it being a pretty balanced sounding headphone with a good soundstage that's good for gaming.  I'm not sure I'd call the MA900 a "budget Anniversary" from a sound-wise perspective though, just because the MA900 doesn't sound all that much like the Anniversary.  Sure they both have a pretty balanced signature, but they're still two different sounding headphones with different soundstages/presentations and different signatures.  They sound as different as any other two headphones I've tried from two different makers, maybe a little more so because of the MA900's unique design which tends to give it a pretty unique sound.


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> They definitely do sound different. I'd rather call it the cheaper alternative to the Annie. Not a cheaper Annie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


chicolom said:


> An alternative makes more sense.
> 
> Calling a Denon D2000 a "budget D5000" makes sense, but I doubt most people would even call a HD5x8 a "budget HD6x0" as they're two different sounds.   Same thing with the MA900 and Anniversary.


 
  
 Alright, fair point there guys.
 A cheaper alternative definitely makes a lot more sense, sorry on my part.
  


chicolom said:


> That game looks sick (both in a good way and literally
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whatever you do, *PLAY* this game in the future or whenever you have the chance. I'm so sad that games aren't taking sound design seriously these days and when an indie dev actually does, I'm just floored. There's nothing groundbreaking visuals, story or gameplay wise. It's just how immersive it is, been a long time a horror title has been this good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Chico,
  
 you have a M-Stage, I read alot about its synergy with certain headphones. How many AKG revisions does it take before you finally order your HD 800? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 ----
  
 After I finish my Mixamp setup I'll start gaming again and will finish more than 3 games a year finally. I don't keep big backlogs, I just play less than I should and often I am too picky about immersion (free time, moment) so I just play a round of FIFA and be done with it. Last game I finished was Bioshock Infite, before that I played Max Payne 3 the second time. I love that game.


----------



## Mitchb2020

mad lust envy said:


> How much is the MA900?


 
 300 :/
  
  
 Just curious how does the bass on the hd 600 and 598 fit on the scale


----------



## dakanao

What do you think is the most important thing on sound for rap/hiphop depending on a lot of vocals and dubstep?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mitchb2020 said:


> 300 :/
> 
> 
> Just curious how does the bass on the hd 600 and 598 fit on the scale




598: 6.75, but too much mids for me.

558: 7

Never heard the 600


but the HD650: 7.75


----------



## Mitchb2020

dakanao said:


> What do you think is the most important thing on sound for rap/hiphop depending on a lot of vocals and dubstep?


 
 not sure what you mean in the last bit of your sentance
  
 the main reason i listen to the genre is for the instrumentals/beats which are amazing for example
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_iTsvBWhRY
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSXiNdTbTA4
  
 i think i will go with the x1s
 https://www.eglobaldigitalcameras.com.au/philips-x1-on-ear-hifi-headphones.html
  
 i guess for all music im more interested in the beat, hence my love for the hip hop and rap genre no matter how pretentious half of the artists are.
 i should listen to more house
 this realisation has made me decide on the x1s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some of us told you to get the X1 what feels like ages ago, lol. It's a headphone almost everyone will love unless they're specific about wanting bass that is more natural.


----------



## cheuh

mad lust envy said:


> If I could score the TH-900 for $800, sure, that's as much as I could throw at it.
> 
> Mitch...
> 
> ...


 
  
 What would your scale look like if it was based on bass quality? How would the orthodynamics's bass such as the LCD2 and HE-400 compare to the dynamics you listed above?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing compares to the planars in bass quality. The LCD2 has my favorite bass out of all headphones that aren't the D7000. HE-400 and MD 3.2 are very, very close. ACtually, I think those three are more or less equivalent in bass, but as a whole, the LCD2 wins due to everything else integrated with the bass.


----------



## cheuh

Ahh I see.. does it even beat out D7000 bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The D7000's bass is my favorite due to the way the sub bass hits. Quality-wise, the D7000 is definitely not as refined in the bass.


----------



## Fegefeuer

TH-900 bass is much more refined than the D7000 while also hitting hard and going very low. I like its "corpus" better than the LCD-2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just love the omnipotence the D7000's bass has. I heard the TH-900 offers a similar presentation. More refined or not, it doesn't matter to me. As long as it's similar, the TH-900 sounds like a winner.


----------



## Mitchb2020

yeah thing is i need to sell my dts first haha
 still waiting
  
 need to get a part time job to !
  
 exams week guys  !!!


----------



## dakanao

How high would you rate the X1's bass quality on a scale from 1 to 10?


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Chico,
> 
> you have a M-Stage, I read alot about its synergy with certain headphones. How many AKG revisions does it take before you finally order your HD 800?


 
  
  
 I love the HD800s soundstage, but I keep wondering if the signature would be too bright/lean as my sole headphone - because I would have to sell off every other headphone I have before I could consider affording that.  I wonder how good the HD800s genre bandwidth can be.  I see a lot of people saying they're mainly geared towards classical.
  
 So I'm not sure if it's better to go with multiple mid-fi cans or a single flagship can like the HD800.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> How high would you rate the X1's bass quality on a scale from 1 to 10?




Harder for me to judge quality, but I'd put it at around a 7. It sometimes can come off as one note-ish and bloomy. It really depends on the genre of music and frequency of the bass.

Quality-wise, I find the Pro 2900 to have the best mid bass articulation that I've heard.


----------



## davidsh

mad lust envy said:


> Nothing compares to the planars in bass quality. The LCD2 has my favorite bass out of all headphones that aren't the D7000. HE-400 and MD 3.2 are very, very close. ACtually, I think those three are more or less equivalent in bass, but as a whole, the LCD2 wins due to everything else integrated with the bass.


 
 Hmm, I see no 'stats there!


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Harder for me to judge quality, but I'd put it at around a 7. It sometimes can come off as one note-ish and bloomy. It really depends on the genre of music and frequency of the bass.
> 
> Quality-wise, I find the Pro 2900 to have the best mid bass articulation that I've heard.


 
  
 And mids and treble quantity and treble quality?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't like the Pro 2900's mids. They sounded very distant. The treble was sharp and artificial sounding.

david: Lol, well yeah, the stats main expertise as far as I've heard from the SR407 was that amazingly crisp yet non-fatiguinbg treble. SOOOOO good. Neither of the two stats I tried had very highlighted bass, so it wasn't an area I focused on. The ESP950 had amazing mids though. ABout as good as I've heard, but didn't have the same body as something like the LCD2, 650, Annie, MD 3.0.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> I didn't like the Pro 2900's mids. They sounded very distant. The treble was sharp and artificial sounding.
> 
> david: Lol, well yeah, the stats main expertise as far as I've heard from the SR407 was that amazingly crisp yet non-fatiguinbg treble. SOOOOO good. Neither of the two stats I tried had very highlighted bass, so it wasn't an area I focused on. The ESP950 had amazing mids though. ABout as good as I've heard, but didn't have the same body as something like the LCD2, 650, Annie, MD 3.0.


 
  
 No was talking about the X1's mids and treble quantity and treble quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh. You're asking too much for me to rate it's quality. I'm not comfortable numbering quality.

Quantity?

X1 bass/mids/treble

8.5/7/7.5

The mids are just ever so slightly recessed when compared to the bass. The treble is smooth overall, with a slight peak at 10khz which can rarely be zingy, but it's not really an issue, and it's well in line with the mids overall. If the X1 had less bass, I'd say it's be in the realm of being neutral sounding.

The X1 is a damn good headphone, with it's weakest aspect being that the bass can sometimes be overwhelming. SOMETIMES.


----------



## Mitchb2020

have you sold your old ones


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Oh. You're asking too much for me to rate it's quality. I'm not comfortable numbering quality.
> 
> Quantity?
> 
> ...


 
 I find it unfortanite that while the treble is smooth, the midrange isn't lush or full.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mitchb2020 said:


> have you sold your old ones




No, but I have a potential buyer here in the states.

Selling to Aus requires I make an initial trip to the post office to find out how much more shipping will be internationally. .. its such a hassle, and then its uninsured, so youre screwed if anything ever happens


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> I love the HD800s soundstage, but I keep wondering if the signature would be too bright/lean as my sole headphone - because I would have to sell off every other headphone I have before I could consider affording that.  I wonder how good the HD800s genre bandwidth can be.  I see a lot of people saying they're mainly geared towards classical.
> 
> So I'm not sure if it's better to go with multiple mid-fi cans or a single flagship can like the HD800.


 
  
 People are stating wrong things. Sure, there also those over at the summit-fi that exaggerate everything about the HD 800 but it's not as lean as people often make it out to be. It takes more time to warm up than a HE-500, because you need to adjust to the huge soundstage and its imaging, they way it lays out all the details of the music. It certainly requires more listening dedication. It's not a instant-fun headphone like the HE-500 but in the long run (session) it beats it to a pulp. I heard the LCD-3 as well and sure the bass is excellent but technically it holds no candle against the Sennheiser. The extreme detail makes bad recordings sound as they are and many genres suffer from bad recording habits, especially something like Metal. That's why people often mention classical music because habits are different there. From my experience it's all about the recordings, not the genre, though I still would recommend others for genres like EDM, metal and/or instant-fun.
  
 The HD 800 bass reaches very low and at the same time it offers great detail. It doesn't lack anything for gaming, though it sucks for games like Sleeping Dogs and its telephone quality recordings but other headphones won't be able to rescue the sound part of that game either. The reason I didn't mention it often was due to CMSS-3D's treble boost which made some games really troublesome to play (HE-400 didn't work out either though) and until a few weeks ago I only played with CMSS-3D and Signature DJs.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> People are stating wrong things. Sure, there also those over at the summit-fi that exaggerate everything about the HD 800 but it's not as lean as people often make it out to be. It takes more time to warm up than a HE-500, because you need to adjust to the huge soundstage and its imaging, they way it lays out all the details of the music. It certainly requires more listening dedication. It's not a instant-fun headphone like the HE-500 but in the long run (session) it beats it to a pulp. I heard the LCD-3 as well and sure the bass is excellent but technically it holds no candle against the Sennheiser. The extreme detail makes bad recordings sound as they are and many genres suffer from bad recording habits, especially something like Metal. That's why people often mention classical music because habits are different there. From my experience it's all about the recordings, not the genre, though I still would recommend others for genres like EDM, metal and/or instant-fun.
> The HD 800 bass reaches very low and at the same time it offers great detail. It doesn't lack anything for gaming, though it sucks for games like Sleeping Dogs and its telephone quality recordings but other headphones won't be able to rescue the sound part of that game either. The reason I didn't mention it often was due to CMSS-3D's treble boost which made some games really troublesome to play (HE-400 didn't work out either though) and until a few weeks ago I only played with CMSS-3D and Signature DJs.


 
  
  
 When I briefly tried the HD800s I thought they were warmer than the Q701s but not quite as warm as the Anniversaries.  They have tons of air and treble extension though. 
  
 You don't think the HD800s are_ too detailed _for console gaming?  The audio is usually compressed in games, so it seems like the HD800 wouldn't do that any favors.
  
 I also keep hearing that you need to invest a lot in an amp and DAC with the HD800s.  Not sure how much of that is legit and how much of it is classic Head-fi exaggeration.  I have an ODAC and an M-Stage/iCan, which is at most a $400 setup.


----------



## Mitchb2020

You could use the internet  


mad lust envy said:


> No, but I have a potential buyer here in the states.
> 
> Selling to Aus requires I make an initial trip to the post office to find out how much more shipping will be internationally. .. its such a hassle, and then its uninsured, so youre screwed if anything ever happens


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> When I briefly tried the HD800s I thought they were warmer than the Q701s but not quite as warm as the Anniversaries.  They have tons of air and treble extension though.
> 
> You don't think the HD800s_ _are_ too detailed _for console gaming?  The audio is usually compressed in games, so it seems like the HD800 wouldn't do that any favors.
> 
> I also keep hearing that you need to invest a lot in an amp and DAC with the HD800s.  Not sure how much of that is legit and how much of it is classic Head-fi exaggeration.  I have an ODAC and an M-Stage/iCan, which is at most a $400 setup.


 
  
 I actually only recently tested it with the Mixamp (mentioned it a couple of days ago) and it worked good for Killzone 2. There are plenty of games with less compressed audio files (mostly on PS3 though) but the problem with our setups is also Dolby Digital and the SQ of the mixamp. It's quite different to a good PC (where I game mostly) soundcard, and a lot to a good dac/amp combo. Anyway, if the source material fails then even a decent headphone will show it. For a console/mixamp only setup the HD 800 would be overkill yes, but you still reap some of its benefits and with the PS4 incoming gaming audio will take a boost as well and there's also DTS Headphone X and a Creative external SBX device coming along.
  
 Don't buy the extreme amping (2,5k power plants 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





) myth. There are people that love the HD 800 for what it is, acknowleding its strengths and "weaknesses", those who just don't and those who want to love the HD 800 so much (because it gets so much praise and they want to be part of that excitement) that in their pursuit they forget that all they do is looking for coloration. You could also say that some people delude themselves or are in denial about the nature or character of the HD 800 and try to color it right.
  
 The M-Stage combo is well regarded. You can upgrade sometime down the road (plenty of excellent stuff released both by Matrix and Yulong) but don't think too much about it.


----------



## ethan7000

Don't want to go too off-topic, but since classical was mentioned, what do people like as their favorite headphone specifically for classical?  I mostly listen to violin featured chamber music in that genre.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ethan7000 said:


> Don't want to go too off-topic, but since classical was mentioned, what do people like as their favorite headphone specifically for classical?  I mostly listen to violin featured chamber music in that genre.


 
 I've seen a few posts where the Sennheiser HD600/HD650 owners really seemed to like using the HD600/HD650 for classical music.
  
 But whatever headphone you pick might be decided by what type of headphone amplifier your using,


----------



## pietcux

You need to be careful that the treble are smooth and not over pronounced. Else the violins get annoying. And here is where a HD 650 is a very good selection, also the Ultrasone Signature Pro. Both have a treble roll off beginning around 1000 Hz.


----------



## davidsh

ethan7000 said:


> Don't want to go too off-topic, but since classical was mentioned, what do people like as their favorite headphone specifically for classical?  I mostly listen to violin featured chamber music in that genre.


 
  
 For that genres listed, I'd say the vintage lambda's are pretty darn good. Think lambda signature to be specific, they are pretty much made for medium/small sized venues/recordings like chamber music often is!


----------



## ShooK

I was thinking about getting the 558s and the vmoda boom mic which is around same price as the pc 360s.
  
 What is the difference between the pc 360 and the 558s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the PC360 to be more linear, but a bit too safe. It's not really musical. Boring at times even. It makes for an amazing headset because everything is presented well, but it lacks... magic. The 558 is also very well balanced, with a little more musicality. I haven't had extensive time listening to them, but they are rather enjoyable, though for the price, you can pretty much get an MA900 which is even better.


----------



## NamelessPFG

What does "musicality" even mean, anyway?

I'm guessing part of it has to do with the distinction of "neutral" versus "natural", the latter being more "musical", obviously.

Another thing that comes to mind is the Wikiphonia page on the SR-Lambda. "Later models improved on extension and overall detail retrieval, but few have the musicality of the original Lambda." Something tells me I'll need to sample more models than the SR-202 to truly grasp that statement.


----------



## Mackem

What super comfortable closed cans can I get for gaming and music (Mainly EDM and pop)


----------



## kman1211

namelesspfg said:


> What does "musicality" even mean, anyway?
> 
> I'm guessing part of it has to do with the distinction of "neutral" versus "natural", the latter being more "musical", obviously.
> 
> Another thing that comes to mind is the Wikiphonia page on the SR-Lambda. "Later models improved on extension and overall detail retrieval, but few have the musicality of the original Lambda." Something tells me I'll need to sample more models than the SR-202 to truly grasp that statement.


 
  
 It's hard to explain, to me it's just a certain connection you get with the music, gets you absorbed and involved with the music and is addicting, you just refuse to take the headphones off. Yes, part of it is natural vs neutral. It's part of the reason I like the K240 so much, it's just so musical and addicting, it has a certain 'magic' to it's sound that the higher end AKGs simply didn't have. It's easily the most musical headphone I have, it can bring tears to my eyes and give goosebumps much more easily than any other headphone I have owned. When it comes to musicality, the R10 is king.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Th 900s


mackem said:


> What super comfortable closed cans can I get for gaming and music (Mainly EDM and pop)




No but really a budget is useful


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Closed and comfortable is MrSpeakers Mad Dogs... they're as good as it gets for the price range.


----------



## xero404

mad lust envy said:


> Closed and comfortable is MrSpeakers Mad Dogs... they're as good as it gets for the price range.


 
  
 I just got my 3.2s in w/ a fancy Q-cable and i'm really digging them. Not sure how to describe it but the bass is definitely "sharper" but alot less "boom". Also the Mad Dogs really needed amping as they barely got sufficiently loud enough with the Samsung GS3 and on board audio at work ( If the Fiio e18 would come out sooner already......). Asgard 2 seems to do well in high gain mode so far.
  
 [size=x-small]These Mad Dogs First set of cans that really scaled with more power. The earpad are probably the most [/size]comfortable[size=x-small] ear pads I've tried, I can sense they will get sticky during a hot day though (I wonder if they'll make a velour pad). The clamp is also much stronger than the x1 and you can barely hear any leak since they are closed. Isolation is pretty good. [/size]

 Bagging up the X1 for a week for a fair comparison.  Gonna see if anyone wants to trade my spare NIB X1 for an he-400 + some cash or maybe dt-1350s.

 Now i got my 
 Open: X1
 Closed: Mad Dog

 Gotta do some research on some portables since it was a pain to transport the Mad Dog.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mad lust envy said:


> Closed and comfortable is MrSpeakers Mad Dogs... they're as good as it gets for the price range.


 
 Do the Fostex T50RP headphones (Mad Dog) work well with a receiver's high impedance headphone output?


----------



## Mackem

mitchb2020 said:


> Th 900s
> No but really a budget is useful


 
  
 I'm looking at about £150 GBP. I'd honestly love a pair of open cans but I share a room. Looking for something I can use for gaming and music (EDM and pop as mentioned earlier) and be comfortable enough to be worn for a long time with glasses.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> Do the Fostex T50RP headphones (Mad Dog) work well with a receiver's high impedance headphone output?



Yes. Planars aren't affected by output impedance like dynamics are.


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm, the Pound... I could look up the currency conversion rate to US$, but still I have no idea where you look to find deals over there (across the pond?).

Good news is Pop is pretty easy, usually nice (maybe lush) mids will suit you well, and the same goes for EDM except that sometimes a little treble sparkle goes a long way. I've read a bunch of people have a lot of fun with the AKG K240, which I believe is semi-closed so leaks a bit less, read some reviews on that. The Creative Aurvana Live! headphones should be in budget and sound good too, Audio Technica AD900x should have some of the sparkle you're looking for if your head's not narrow and/or you're willing to bend the headband a bit for a good fit, Sennheiser HD558 is pretty balanced but somehow still musical, and... generally you're gonna have to see what you can afford, read the reviews on those models, and pick one that has a sound signature you think suits your taste.

All we can do is provide some of the reviews, and recommend ones that keyed into our tastes. I suggested above that you look into a few that seem interesting to me, but as of now I'd be looking for the one most resembling my current favorite. I can honestly say I enjoyed all the headphones I've owned for different reasons (not so much the HD201's I bought for my mom, and the KSC75s are good but I tend to forget I have them), but right now, for me, my taste, my broad music variety, if I had all my gear past and present in front of me and I wanted to listen to some/any music, I would reach for my Q701 (and tube amp).


----------



## OP20

Any plans to review the Steelseries Siberia Elite headset when they come out Mad Lust? Very curious to see what your opinion would be


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

op20 said:


> Any plans to review the Steelseries Siberia Elite headset when they come out Mad Lust? Very curious to see what your opinion would be




Maybe if Steelseries were to send me a pair, I would.


----------



## pietcux

mackem said:


> I'm looking at about £150 GBP. I'd honestly love a pair of open cans but I share a room. Looking for something I can use for gaming and music (EDM and pop as mentioned earlier) and be comfortable enough to be worn for a long time with glasses.



Please check the Ultrasone PRO 550. Very good soundstage, good bass nice mids and treble. I find it comfy for endless LAN party business and I wear glasses too.
 But I recommend the new grey color as the blue ones are too old aged stock items.


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/headspeaker.shtml
  
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/dspeaker-headspeaker-headphone-virtual-surround-system
  
 Did you guys check this out or already talked about this HRTF device?


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/headspeaker.shtml
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/dspeaker-headspeaker-headphone-virtual-surround-system
> 
> Did you guys check this out or already talked about this HRTF device?


I posted a link to our earlier in the thread, but I don't think it was discussed much. It would be cool to try it though.


----------



## pietcux

I don't think that it applies to computer gaming, because I am very fixated to my screen. But for consoleros relaxing on the sofa it could apply.


----------



## FlukeNL

Depends... I use a Track IR for my simulation games. Ergo: I move about a lot .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering our eyes should always be on the screen, I find headtracking useless. I understand the idea, and it makes no sense for general on screen gaming use. Unless we are in a room full of screens or something like some virtual reality ( that Oculus Rift), this doesn't make sense for general gaming, movies, or otherwise.

Gee, let me play with my eyes pointed away from the screen, so that people sound like they're behind me.

Now, if you're listening to a concert or something and really care about where the stage is, then MAYBE.

I however, am interested in how the virtual surround DSP compares to DH, THX Tru Studio, and the Headzone's HTRF, which all do virtual surround quite well (despite the THX TS having some weird panning). The Headzone's virtual surround is definitely the best I've heard, but the internal amp was.... meh for waaaaaay too much money. So you're looking at something a bit better than the others, but not 10x better. Maybe 15% better at the most, in terms of virtual surround without the echo of DH, or weird panning of THX TS.


----------



## Evshrug

I remembered playing a Macintosh exclusive game in 1995, one of the most high-profile for the platform at the time, my mind blown when I read in the manual that the game supported virtual reality headsets.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> *Considering our eyes should always be on the screen, I find headtracking useless*. I understand the idea, and it makes no sense for general on screen gaming use. Unless we are in a room full of screens or something like some virtual reality ( that Oculus Rift), this doesn't make sense for general gaming, movies, or otherwise.
> 
> Gee, let me play with my eyes pointed away from the screen, so that people sound like they're behind me.
> 
> Now, if you're listening to a concert or something and really care about where the stage is, then MAYBE.


 
  
  
 I think you're thinking about it wrong.  I don't think anyone expects you to be whipping your head around in circles.  It's more about small adjustments with your head while you're still looking forward.
  
 Yes, your eyes should always be on the screen, but your head won't always be in the same position.  People normally make small adjustments with their head to help pinpoint sound.  It's the same thing a dog does when it tilts it's head to the side when it hears something.  Humans do that too.  An example is when you're looking for a hard to find sound (like a cricket in the house) and you sort of bob your head around to help you find it.
  
 Unless your head is locked in place, you will most likely be making some small movements with your head anyways as you game.  If you have a big enough screen, you might even move your head slightly when you look from one side to the other.  You might as well make those movements contribute and sharpen the positioning and increase the immersion.
  
 As Tyll says in the article:


> _"If you sit directly in front of the screen and never fidget, HeaDSPeaker works just fine. But here in the real world, people don't act like that, and the head tracking is a useful tool for enhancing the surround simulation. Not that I intentionally turn my head a lot while watching movies, but as I paid attention to it I noticed more subtle head shifts than I would have thought. So despite the extra cable involved, head tracking is indeed worth it."_


 
  
 I understand why you think it is useless (your in-game avatar will always be looking straight forward no matter what your head is doing), but still I think you need to_ try it first _before you rule it out as being useless.


----------



## Evshrug

Recon3D USB should be here tonight when I get home!
 AKG K712 Pro ought to arrive Friday (though knowing USPS, probably not till Monday).
 Exciting times.
  
  
 Really though, right now... I just want a nap.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Recon3D USB should be here tonight when I get home!
> AKG K712 Pro ought to arrive Friday (though knowing USPS, probably not till Monday).
> Exciting times.
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's a really good post here about configuring your Recon3D USB set. I'd really recommend checking it out and following his advice. It's spot on.
  
 You're welcome.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> There's a really good post here about configuring your Recon3D USB set. I'd really recommend checking it out and following his advice. It's spot on.
> 
> You're welcome.



Hmm, seems like just my taste. Thanks for the find!


----------



## burritoboy9984

evshrug said:


> Hmm, seems like just my taste. Thanks for the find!


 
  
 I'm confused, isn't that your old post? lol.
  
 -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah it was, funny thing is I don't think "I" had it in my bookmarks! 
I also think I post like a different person now... Probably because back then I had too much free time and I put a lot of energy into Head-Fi. I also wasn't sure what you were about, and I was kind of stand-offish with you sometimes... thanks for not hating me, lol! I don't say as much, or at least I don't write essays as often, but I still think of this as my "home thread" and always check for new posts here first.

Nameless' Recon3D USB arrived, packed in a vitamin supplements box of all things, and I want to play with it but I have to sleep. I think I'll just open the box and then pass out, lol.


----------



## NamelessPFG

flukenl said:


> Depends... I use a Track IR for my simulation games. Ergo: I move about a lot .


 
  
 As do I, which is why I don't give a whole lot of attention to virtual speaker surround devices that use head-tracking as part of their simulation. Any TrackIR enhanced mode game already does that for me, with the extra perk of a massive boost in situational awareness.
  
 And for those that aren't, a bit of in-game camera movement works in its place for more finely discerning the location of sounds.
  
 Now, if someone could make those ultrasonic head-trackers actually emulate a TrackIR, then I'd be really interested...


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Yeah it was, funny thing is I don't think "I" had it in my bookmarks!
> I also think I post like a different person now... Probably because back then I had too much free time and I put a lot of energy into Head-Fi. I also wasn't sure what you were about, and I was kind of stand-offish with you sometimes... thanks for not hating me, lol! I don't say as much, or at least I don't write essays as often, but I still think of this as my "home thread" and always check for new posts here first.
> 
> Nameless' Recon3D USB arrived, packed in a vitamin supplements box of all things, and I want to play with it but I have to sleep. I think I'll just open the box and then pass out, lol.


 
  
 Eh, you make it easy to get to it. I have a couple friends who have picked up a Recon3D USB as well, fellow Mac gamers, and I link them your suggested settings to get a starting point. I get to it easily through your signature; "detailed report" at the bottom and then a link in that write-up takes you to the post. I don't have it bookmarked either but I think it's a great starting point for people. So I send them that way. But secretly, I'm actually too lazy to write down my settings for them and make them do their own work.
  
 And forums aren't the best way to convey sarcasm/jokes/break dancing skills. It's pretty easy to get an impression of someone and have it be entirely incorrect. I mean, look at Chicolom. He might actually be a terrible person who punches puppies, though I highly doubt it. So if I may have come off a bit rude or provocative but it certainly wasn't intentional. Unless I was talking to Tus-chan. *shakes fist* (gotta rag on my fellow state-men)


----------



## FlukeNL

mad lust envy said:


> Considering our eyes should always be on the screen, I find headtracking useless.


 
 Now that's just showing you haven't tried it... ever. Using headtracking, your eyes will never leave the screen. That would indeed be plain stupid. Small movements of your head are translated into bigger movements in game. It's almost the same as checking out the edges of your screen. Normally you'd do that with eyemovements, but you get used to using your head a bit as well.
  
 For general gaming, RTS, MMORPG, or the run 'n gun shooters? Mwah, don't bother. But as soon as you enter the realm of simulation it offers huge benefits. Racing, flying or an FPS like ARMA  are areas where headtracking stands out (or: all games where you need some sort of extra situational awareness). So I guess it depends on the type of games you play. Too bad you don't live around here, I'd let you try it out. If you even slightly like the type of games I've mentioned, you would go the headtracking route. Maybe not TrackIR as those are crazy expensive, but still... .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All I'm trying to say is that spending hundreds for a feature that aids your subtle head movement away from being completely ceneter from the screen... well I dont find a real point to it. Even if my head was off center, my brain understands that what i hear on my headphones is directly related to my on screen character (say in an FPS). So if it sounds like its coming at 5 o clock, its happening in game, not my subtle head movement. I'll turn my character to face that 5 o clock position.

So again, head tracking is... ultimately useless to me.

The Smyth Realizer however is truly emulating whatever speaker setup you recorded. That is something else entirely, which I find amazing. Not needed for the purpose of gaming or anything otherwise, but being able to copy how a room sounds almost perfectly is pretty awesome.

And I do under the function of headtracking. I'm just saying that it's a very amazing gimmick that isn't going to truly benefit gaming, other than add immersion and the pseudo trickery of making you think you're not listening to headphones.

You'd need like a multiple monitor setup, or gaming where you're physically turning around, etc.


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> Now, if someone could make those ultrasonic head-trackers actually emulate a TrackIR, then I'd be really interested...


 
  
  
 What's the difference between them?  TrackIR affects the camera while the others affects the sound?


----------



## FlukeNL

that's basically it, yes. So if you can combine the two, it saves a tracking system. An alternative might be a headtracker with solid state gyroscopes (I know a guy who'se making those, but they are still prototypes and only work on 3 axis instead of the 6 axis movement tracking TrackIR delivers), because those are very very small.
  
 @ Mad Lust: I hear ya, and understand you're looking at headtracking from a sound-based point of view. Headtracking will never replace positional cues from sound. Lol, all i was trying to say is that headtracking has it's uses (funny how written text sometimes garbles our real intentions). In combat flightsims it's proven invaluable and in more tactical shooters it's nice to keep pointing your gun at a certain point while every once in a while checking out the surrounding area. But truth be told: if it wasn't for my flightsim hobby, I'd never have bought it. Build my own, yes... that's only $20 or so .


----------



## Phol

So i've spent about 3 days researching this stuff now. I've read through the guide, several threads in the head-fi forum, reviews and mixamps explanations and I'm still unsure on how all this work.

 Perhaps someone here could help me if I just describe what hardware I got and what I'm looking for.
  
*Budget**: *150-250$
*Main use:* 50% PC & PS3-gaming. 25% music, 25% movies.
*Gaming taste: *80% Immersion/atmosphere, 20% Competitive.
*Music taste*: Mostly Post-Core, Metal and Alt Rock but also Pop, Electronic and some Techno.
*Soundcard/Motherboard: *http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&tmp_geoLoc=true&docname=c03132942

 So i'm looking for something with good Bass while still having some nice Soundstage.
 From what I've been reading the DT770 seems to be pretty good in that regard. Only thing I'm not enjoying is their plain design, but audio quality and comfort is more important.

 I'm really confused about this whole Dolby Digital and amp stuff. I would really like to try it out as it sounds great but I'm not sure what I'll need. Is there anyway to get this for both PC and PS3 without having to buy a new soundcard?

 Any help or advice is appreciated. If you need any more information feel free to ask away!


----------



## Evshrug

Phol,
If you want something for the computer and console, the easiest solution right now is to get a Recon3D USB from Creative (which I just rebought yesterday). Sure, the Mixamp can kinda do a PC, and maybe with research and reconfiguration you might be able to use a Turtle Beach DSS with a PC, but the Creative external soundcard actually has custom drivers for Windows (and Mac) while also supporting the ability to decode surround sound sent from a console. I don't know of any in-production internal soundcards that actually can support 5.1 DDL audio decoding from a PS3, and besides having the external Recon3D means you don't have to have your PC running to have console surround.

You can adjust the balance between game and chat volume on PC (even increase the gain/sensitivity of your microphone), but unfortunately it can't offer that on consoles (though the PS3 may offer system settings for a workaround, I admit I'm not very familiar with the PS3 advanced settings). On my Xbox, there is a setting that can quiet the game audio while somebody is talking, but I prefer to turn up the volume on my amp till i can hear my friends clearly, then use a game's setting to lower game volume manually to a comfortable level – this way game audio won't change when I'm trying to listen for an enemy and a friend starts talking.

If you want the cheapest devices that will process surround audio, those would be the Turtle Beach DSS for consoles (Woot just posted an offer for a DSS v1 with a headset... All TB headsets can easily be outmatched in SQ, but the mic is good, allows console chat mixing, and is essentially free with a $30 DSS: http://tech.woot.com/offers/7-1-surround-sound-gaming-headset-4) and a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Go! Pro or Asus Xonar U3 for the PC. Dolby processing in the DSS and Xonar products is ok, but I prefer the headphone surround from THX and Creative.

What is post-core? Post hardcore? What's an example track?


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Eh, you make it easy to get to it. I have a couple friends who have picked up a Recon3D USB as well, fellow Mac gamers, and I link them your suggested settings to get a starting point. I get to it easily through your signature; "detailed report" at the bottom and then a link in that write-up takes you to the post. I don't have it bookmarked either but I think it's a great starting point for people. So I send them that way. But secretly, I'm actually too lazy to write down my settings for them and make them do their own work.
> 
> And forums aren't the best way to convey sarcasm/jokes/break dancing skills. It's pretty easy to get an impression of someone and have it be entirely incorrect. I mean, look at Chicolom. He might actually be a terrible person who punches puppies, though I highly doubt it. So if I may have come off a bit rude or provocative but it certainly wasn't intentional. Unless I was talking to Tus-chan. *shakes fist* (gotta rag on my fellow state-men)



Secretly, I did suspect you were linking my post soon as I saw a hyperlink (cuz you have that kind of humor, and AFAIK I am the only one to publish setup testing notes on the relatively unknown Recon3D USB), and also I did link them all to eachother and my signature because I know that, even more secretly, I am also too lazy and I have to take advantage of manic periods of activity.

I did not know that you have been sharing the links more than once, that makes me extremely happy to hear I made something that is still seeing use.


----------



## Phol

evshrug said:


> Phol,
> If you want something for the computer and console, the easiest solution right now is to get a Recon3D USB from Creative (which I just rebought yesterday). Sure, the Mixamp can kinda do a PC, and maybe with research and reconfiguration you might be able to use a Turtle Beach DSS with a PC, but the Creative external soundcard actually has custom drivers for Windows (and Mac) while also supporting the ability to decode surround sound sent from a console. I don't know of any in-production internal soundcards that actually can support 5.1 DDL audio decoding from a PS3, and besides having the external Recon3D means you don't have to have your PC running to have console surround.
> 
> You can adjust the balance between game and chat volume on PC (even increase the gain/sensitivity of your microphone), but unfortunately it can't offer that on consoles (though the PS3 may offer system settings for a workaround, I admit I'm not very familiar with the PS3 advanced settings). On my Xbox, there is a setting that can quiet the game audio while somebody is talking, but I prefer to turn up the volume on my amp till i can hear my friends clearly, then use a game's setting to lower game volume manually to a comfortable level – this way game audio won't change when I'm trying to listen for an enemy and a friend starts talking.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the reply!
  
 The Recon 3D, first time i hear of it. Seems like quite a nifty little device, and it's not too expensive here in Sweden either. Will have to look into it! 
 At first glance I like it better than the other suggestions mainly because it seems like an all-in-one kind of thing. I really want to cut back on the amount of devices and cables as much as possible. Out of curiousity what do you mean that the Mixamp can kind of work with a PC?

 Yeah post hardcore, I guess you could call it metalcore as well. Stuff like: We Came as Romans - Hope. Bands like The Devils Wears Prada and Of Mice and Men.
 But l listen to lots of other stuff as well, Within Temptation, Daft Punk, Opeth, Paramore to name a few. I also like to relax to the gaming soundtracks of Halo, Mass effect, Skryim etc when playing other games or just browsing.

 Any good suggestions on Headphones?


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, the all in one factor is what appealed to me, especially since it actually has Mac drivers, but I also have a console and gaming PC. I'm just now booting up my new Recon3D USB. By the way, I always type the USB part so people know which one I'm talking about. Doesn't hurt that it has gone on sale from time to time, too.

Apparently the Mixamp can plug into a PC and use USB for audio, but the quality is really bad (noisy) and doesn't have native drivers. You could also use a Mixamp with a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 (DDL) output from an optical port, but you'd have to figure out how to enable it, may require software, and... I don't know how to do it, you'd have to spend time researching if you want it.

What I HAVE learned about surround audio, I've written almost like a report in my "If I knew then..." journal linked in my signature. You said you don't understand Dolby Headphone and stuff, I wrote those "articles" to be a good starting place.

I'll have to check out some of those tracks, I'm always open to new stuff, but honestly I don't have much experience with the genre. I feel like bass that is slightly on the boomy side might actually be better suited for you, and FWIR the DT770 is impressive while still having good detail and surround imaging. The AKG K240 studios may also be fun for you, they actually have a pretty strong pronounced mid-bass hump (sound different than the flagships). Someone may recommend you the Sony XB500... Uh, no. I mean, you should hear it once, but the bass is ridiculously overblown and you can't hear anything else. The MA900 though, that's supposed to be nice, but I don't necessarily think it's the one best matched to what you're looking for, but I get the feeling you'll like the headphones Mad likes.


----------



## fjosh

This thread is huge and I don't feel like reading the entire thing, so my apologies because I'm certain this has been answered a number of times.
  
 I currently have an Xbox 360 and come November I will have an Xbox One.  I have a 7.1 Yamaha AVR as well as a vintage Yamaha receiver, either of which can power my headphones.  I recently (today) received my Fidelio X1 headphones from Amazon.
  
 My question is how can I get surround sound headphone effects while retaining the ability for one of my receivers to power my headphones or a headphone amp in the future and also not lose the ability to use my 5.1 surround sound setup without having to unhook and rehook things up constantly.
  
 I hope this makes sense, I'll answer any questions if not.


----------



## ANGLVD3TH

Hey there, I've been looking to get a pair of Razer headphones and was disappointed to find none in your guide. Was wondering if they're just more garbage aimed at a gamer demograph or if there's any reason none were included. I specifically had my eyes on the Blackshark but I admit it's mostly for the aesthetics, love that look. 
  
 If the Razers really are trash then I'm sure I'll be able to find something for me with your great guide, thanks a ton.
  
 PS Sorry if you've addressed this in the comments already, please forgive me for not sifting through over a thousand pages >_>


----------



## PurpleAngel

fjosh said:


> This thread is huge and I don't feel like reading the entire thing, so my apologies because I'm certain this has been answered a number of times.
> 
> I currently have an Xbox 360 and come November I will have an Xbox One.  I have a 7.1 Yamaha AVR as well as a vintage Yamaha receiver, either of which can power my headphones.  I recently (today) received my Fidelio X1 headphones from Amazon.
> 
> ...


 
 Why even use a vintage receiver with your modern hardware (xBox).
 Run HDMI from the gaming console (xBox) to the Yamaha A/V receiver, plug headphones into Yamaha receiver.
  
 Your Fidelio X1 headphones are only 30-Ohms, not a great match for plugging into any receiver's high impedance headphone jack.
  
 Getting an Astro Mix-Amp and plugging it into the gaming console (S/PDIF optical) and the Philips in to the Mix-amp might be a better choice, over the Yamaha.
  
 Or get some 250 or 300-Ohm headphones to plug into the Yamaha A/V receiver.
 (HDMI from xBox to Yamaha should offer better audio quality over mix-amp/optical connection)


----------



## fjosh

purpleangel said:


> Why even use a vintage receiver with your modern hardware (xBox).
> Run HDMI from the gaming console (xBox) to the Yamaha A/V receiver, plug headphones into Yamaha receiver.
> 
> Your Fidelio X1 headphones are only 30-Ohms, not a great match for plugging into any receiver's high impedance headphone jack.
> ...


 
  
 The vintage Yamaha is powering my main speakers via preouts of the 7.1 AVR for a few reasons.  First is they are 4 ohm speakers, in some frequencies dipping into the low 3 ohm range.  The vintage Yamaha is rated for a 4 ohm load.  Second is that it is a better sounding and better built receiver that has more power than my newer AVR.  So when I am listening to 2 channel music, it is much improved and when I'm watching a 5.1 movie, a lot of the load is taken off of the AVR allowing it to more properly power the rest of my setup.
  
 Because they are both in use, I can plug my headphones into either receiver at any time and when I A/B'd the headphone jacks on both receivers the vintage Yamaha sounded better and had more power for the X1's then the newer AVR by far and away.  Though it may not be ideal, it is better.


----------



## PurpleAngel

fjosh said:


> The vintage Yamaha is powering my main speakers via preouts of the 7.1 AVR for a few reasons.  First is they are 4 ohm speakers, in some frequencies dipping into the low 3 ohm range.  The vintage Yamaha is rated for a 4 ohm load.  Second is that it is a better sounding and better built receiver that has more power than my newer AVR.  So when I am listening to 2 channel music, it is much improved and when I'm watching a 5.1 movie, a lot of the load is taken off of the AVR allowing it to more properly power the rest of my setup.
> 
> Because they are both in use, I can plug my headphones into either receiver at any time and when I A/B'd the headphone jacks on both receivers the vintage Yamaha sounded better and had more power for the X1's then the newer AVR by far and away.  Though it may not be ideal, it is better.


 
 Which model Yamaha receivers are they?
 Plug the headphones into the vintage for music and plug the headphones into the newer AVR for gaming.


----------



## fjosh

purpleangel said:


> Which model Yamaha receivers are they?
> Plug the headphones into the vintage for music and plug the headphones into the newer AVR for gaming.


 
  
 New - RX-V667
 Vintage - CA-1010
  
 So, basically, I want something like this Mixamp.  Is there any product out there like Mixamp that also has a optical OUT port?  So I can run an optical cord from the console to the mixamp (where my headphones will reside) and also run another optical cord from the OUT port on the "Mixamp" like product to my receiver thus not breaking anything I have going on now?
  
 The reviews of the 2013 Mixamp are not favorable on their website.  Sounds like people are having issues with them.
  
 I'll probably have a lot of questions until my headphone setup is complete.  I'm familiar with HT and 2 channel music stereo equipment and setup but this is my first headphone endeavor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

anglvd3th said:


> Hey there, I've been looking to get a pair of Razer headphones and was disappointed to find none in your guide. Was wondering if they're just more garbage aimed at a gamer demograph or if there's any reason none were included. I specifically had my eyes on the Blackshark but I admit it's mostly for the aesthetics, love that look.
> 
> If the Razers really are trash then I'm sure I'll be able to find something for me with your great guide, thanks a ton.
> 
> PS Sorry if you've addressed this in the comments already, please forgive me for not sifting through over a thousand pages >_>




I don't generally review headsets, that's why. This guide is more audiophile oriented, and the reviews are for headphones the general audiophile might have or normally go for. The few headsets I have reviewed has mostly been due to companies sending them out to me (Skullcandy/Astrogaming). If Razer ever wants to send some for review, I'd be more than happy to put them on my guide.

Just to let you guys know, I don't get paid, nor do I make a lot of money with my real job $9/hr (yeah....not gonna make a living off that), which is why I don't just buy stuff for reviewing. If I buy something, it's because I'm generally interested in actually owning/using it. (X1, MA900 being the latest)


----------



## fjosh

This is what I'm going for.


----------



## chicolom

fjosh said:


> So, basically, I want something like this Mixamp.  Is there any product out there like Mixamp that also has a optical OUT port?  So I can run an optical cord from the console to the mixamp (where my headphones will reside) and also run another optical cord from the OUT port on the "Mixamp" like product to my receiver thus not breaking anything I have going on now?


 
  
 Why not use a powered optical splitter?
 http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Way-Audio-Splitter/dp/B00B1UWSR6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1379056619&sr=8-4&keywords=optical+splitter
  
 A DSS (version 1) will get you console surround sound for cheap:
 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?LH_BIN=1&clk_rvr_id=520259103126&_nkw=ear+force+dss&_sop=15
 http://tech.woot.com/offers/7-1-surround-sound-gaming-headset-4
  
  
 Quote:


fjosh said:


> This is what I'm going for.


 
  
  
 That's actually a binaural recording, not Dolby Headphone.


----------



## fjosh

chicolom said:


> That's actually a binaural recording, not Dolby Headphone.


 
  
 Aww, bummer.  Are these surround sound "effect" processors nothing like this?
  
 That splitter would work perfect.


----------



## Evshrug

Anglvd3th and fjosh,
Yeah, about 60-70% of this thread is made up of variations of your questions over the years, BUT the good news is that the guide in the first post is very helpful, and the thread kinda has gained a life of it's own where previous shoppers turn into people willing to share tips, like me.

*Anglvd3th,*
The general rule of thumb is that gaming-marketed headphones have problems with sibilance, refined and controlled presentation, and value for their price. Audio is not one of Razer's core competences, though they seem to be trying to learn and, even though their attempts such as their free surround audio processing sound inferior to efforts by Dolby and Creative, I give them kudos for trying to expand the market. Gaming headsets generally increase in quality with price paid, at least till you hit the wireless models which bump quality down to entry-level again plus problems with background hiss and less detailed DACs, but *at the end of the day,* audiophile favourites around the $80-$170 price range will stomp over "gaming" headsets in sound quality and comfort.

Amusingly, when I went to check out the blackshark just now, I noticed that Mad (Lust Envy) commented on the Engadget "review" (more of a first look) of this headphone.

Good news is that many of the audiophile headphones look unique and cool as well. Take for example the Beyerdynamic DT770 I just looked up for *Phol*. Those actually HAVE been used for aviation in their headset version, with nicer materials (AND COMFORT) than the Razer, the sound has a lot of energy, clarity, and bass, and then the price speaks for itself. For more airy surround realism, look at the Sony MA900 (reviewed in the guide), or the bass-lite but god-mode gaming and less expensive AudioTechnica AD700 (or the new AD700x, if you prefer black).

I think the AKG Q701 headphones sound AMAZING, my current favorites (new version K712 Pro is in the mail for me though), basically they get the max out of gaming audio and work well with virtual surround processing (see the journal linked in my signature) and make music a more engaging and enjoyable experience (known for their balance and broad soundstage), and look so cool to boot. I love my kinda stormtrooper white ones, but they come in a green and black you might find cool, or a black if you want a serious look. 
The slightly higher impedance helps dampen background hiss in an audio signal (silence between sounds improves clarity and is a hallmark of audio quality), but you'll also need a higher volume settings to get the normal level of loudness. Usually you get an acceptable volume at near max settings, but adding a discrete headphone amp makes things sound effortless while also providing the muscle to do things that you shouldn't tell your mom. LoL, but seriously, a good amp isn't about making sound too loud, they improve the impact, ability to "feel" the little detail nuances on your eardrums, and add control to the bass and highs to prevent distortion so you can hear audio as it was intended (which is very pleasurable, so much so that you shouldn't tell your mom, heh). This amping section applies to most headphones as well, to varying degrees.

*fjosh,*
PurpleAngel and I both use (or have owned and used) Yamaha receivers. I was in the middle of playing around with settings to perfect the surround audio, when I had to pack it up and box it in my basement until I move out T_T
So I don't EXACTLY know/remember the best settings, the manual said you had to have on a DSP and your headphones in the headphone jack to engage Silent Cinema (for virtual surround), what I was finding was that you could adjust the amount of the affects' effect, but perhaps you can even get surround with a surround audio source and the receiver set to "straight."

If you want the surround AND you want to use the vintage receiver as a power amp, you'd have to plug the vintage receiver's input into the newer AVR's headphone jack. Downside of that is you'll be very inefficient with your electricity bill, and, unless you're using a headphone with a very high impedance or a very linear impedance:frequency response, you may hear dB spikes at certain frequencies or distortion. But if you want to do it and it sounds good enough to you, you pretty much just have to use your AVR as a source and connect the vintage to the AVR's headphone jack to get virtual surround basically equivalent to Dolby Headphone.

*Phol,*
Check out this gaming headset review of the Beyerdynamic MMX300, basically the DT770 I linked above is the same headphone he's testing there without the built-in mic for $160 new. Mostly, that guy has only had experience with gaming headsets, and he was quite impressed, though his line about "this headphone is so great that the compressed audio in games are the only things that hold it back, and actually sound even better when listening to high bitrate music" (paraphrase) speaks volumes about these headphones. Check amazon's used section too, these are pretty tough headphones. While the Q701s are my favourite headphones (so far), I don't know if "balanced" and "reference" is the sound you're looking for  and the DT770 may be what you're looking for. Then, once you're used to it, you may want to pick up an E17 for amping and to EQ down bass and treble a smidge


----------



## chicolom

fjosh said:


> Aww, bummer.  Are these surround sound "effect" processors nothing like this?
> 
> That splitter would work perfect.


 
  
  
 They are very similar.  Your ability to position the sound in both is due to HRTF (Head Related Transfer Functions).  Basically, the way that sounds change as they bounce off different parts of your head and ear.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUrk2W_r5fc


----------



## Evshrug

fjosh said:


> I'll probably have a lot of questions until my headphone setup is complete.



Sounds like you actually are looking for a service from somebody paid to give said service 
There are such services, we may give a few tips if we can't sleep and are feeling masochistic (and of course there is a wealth of info on this thread if you judiciously use the search function), but you'll probably also need to do some experimenting.

I wish I was paid for the hour I spent typing my last post, all the time I've spent compiling reviews, and the money (not as much as Mad  ) I've spent on gear. It's valuable knowledge, but I know that till I stop giving it out for free nobody would pay me. *shrug*

Far as processors that can bake-in surround audio into a 2 channel optical output, the only options for that are from PC. Overall, it's a long rabbit hole, your current gear can't do EVERYTHING so hopefully it does it well enough for you and the compressed audio material in videogames (especially consoles).
Edit: splitting your optical feed and building a separate audio chain for headphones is also an option, didn't know if you were willing to go that route. Knowing ALL your options is good tho, so yeah, you could also split your optical with that box, buy a surround processor like the DSS, send the analogue audio out from that to your vintage receiver, and have surround. I personally find SC very close to DH (have both currently but not compared head-to-head yet), and you may find connecting to the AVR's headphone jack to be a cleaner analogue signal than the DSS' analogue signal.
Ya make me want to experiment! Someday, *raises fist* I will get that Yamaha AVR back out from it's box!


----------



## Phol

evshrug said:


> I mean, the all in one factor is what appealed to me, especially since it actually has Mac drivers, but I also have a console and gaming PC. I'm just now booting up my new Recon3D USB. By the way, I always type the USB part so people know which one I'm talking about. Doesn't hurt that it has gone on sale from time to time, too.
> 
> Apparently the Mixamp can plug into a PC and use USB for audio, but the quality is really bad (noisy) and doesn't have native drivers. You could also use a Mixamp with a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 (DDL) output from an optical port, but you'd have to figure out how to enable it, may require software, and... I don't know how to do it, you'd have to spend time researching if you want it.
> 
> ...


  

 Hm I see, well the Recon3D seems like the best choice for getting everyting in one package, haven't heard much about it outside of these forums though so I'm still a bit unsure.
 Oh that's great, I'll check out your journal when I got time!

  
 Quote:


evshrug said:


> *Phol,*
> Check out this gaming headset review of the Beyerdynamic MMX300, basically the DT770 I linked above is the same headphone he's testing there without the built-in mic for $160 new. Mostly, that guy has only had experience with gaming headsets, and he was quite impressed, though his line about "this headphone is so great that the compressed audio in games are the only things that hold it back, and actually sound even better when listening to high bitrate music" (paraphrase) speaks volumes about these headphones. Check amazon's used section too, these are pretty tough headphones. While the Q701s are my favourite headphones (so far), I don't know if "balanced" and "reference" is the sound you're looking for
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Not to sure about the gaming headset, it's pretty damn expensive and I rather just have a really good new headphone for that asking price .
 I'm actually looking at the DT990 atm. I know I stated that I didn't want an open headset at first, but this one seems to be really well suited for my needs (a bit scared about the treble being too much though). The thing is since it's the 250 Ohm Pro-version I will have to invest in an amp, and I could get a Fidelio X for about the same price as a DT990+amp. Thought the Fidelio has that cable problem x.x.


----------



## fjosh

evshrug said:


> compressed audio material in videogames (especially consoles).


 
 PC and PS3 aren't so bad but the 360, because it uses DVDs, is pretty bad.  The bluray drive in the XB1 should bring it on par with it's competition.
  
 I appreciate your help and advice.  Truly.
  
 If we had a section in the forum here for "regular" stereo equipment, I could return the favors.


----------



## Fegefeuer

PC games get their multiplat audio always from the Xbox Version unless specifically taken care of. Almost all extra work done for a PC version is mostly just graphics and lesser video compression - rarely the audio treat like the PS3 version (if it hasn't already been gimped by getting the X360 files as well).
  
 So no, "especially consoles" isn't really the truth.


----------



## Evshrug

Phol,
I know what you mean by not much exposure outside of Head-Fi, virtual surround in general is not well known (I myself didn't know about it till I found this thread like two years ago, but only started participating like a year and a couple months back), there are only a few reviews of it on Amazon Et Al, but I took a chance based on it's features (and a sale price) and really liked it (also new Mixamps at the time were back ordered for months and twice the cost). That's why I try to tell people about it... Creative themselves didn't work enough to give it traction. Now, it's possible that Creative may release a refreshed device similar to the Recon3D USB for their Z series line within a couple of months, I'd love to see that, but right now I just rebought a Recon3D USB and am glad to have it back.

I originally had a grand idea for the journal, aka it was going to be longer and grow a life of it's own, but not many people found it and then I got a job... We'll see. And the current stuff is still good info.

The DT770 headphone IS just a really good headphone, the MMX 300 is quite expensive but basically it's just a DT770 with a mic integrated. The X1 is a step up, and yeah it's open which is generally preferred, I'd say if you were looking at the dt990 just go with the X1 instead, else if that's too much stick with the other suggestions from Mad's guide.
-----




fjosh said:


> PC and PS3 aren't so bad but the 360, because it uses DVDs, is pretty bad.  The bluray drive in the XB1 should bring it on par with it's competition.
> 
> I appreciate your help and advice.  Truly.
> 
> If we had a section in the forum here for "regular" stereo equipment, I could return the favors.




I don't mean to whine, I just know that people buy magazines for their reviews, even if said reviews don't have as much juicy info and subjective evaluation (Stereophile is an exception that I greatly enjoyed reading). I also see Mad doing this because he would anyway out of passion, yet basically being impoverished, and not on a you or my fault level but I think his time ought to be rewarded somehow. Thus I was really happy for him when Skullcandy/Astro asked him to review a few models, hoped it would lead to more, coz more reviews from him were helping everybody.

I think there is a "regular stereo speaker" section, I just don't go there often coz right now, in my living situation and income level, headphones are just way more practical and high-value for the dollar. I do have a pair of Polk M40's for laid back relaxing, will hook hem up again once I move back into an apartment (trying to find a reliable roommate that isn't a stranger).
-----

Fegefeuer,
Thanks for adding to my want for a PS3, lol, though I may jump straight to a PS4. Bunch of PS3 titles I'm sad to miss, maybe I'll "get" a PS3 for "free" with a roommate, LOL! Hope he wouldn't mind if I shared my Panasonic plasma, speakers, headphones, furniture, rent... etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the PS4 may stream PS3 digital game through Gaikai so you just might be able to play whatever is available on PSN.


----------



## Evshrug

That would be awesome. Didn't EA buy GaiKai tho? I do think that, in general, games streamed live will become the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Gaikai was bought by Sony.


----------



## xero404

evshrug said:


> Phol,
> If you want something for the computer and console, the easiest solution right now is to get a Recon3D USB from Creative (which I just rebought yesterday). Sure, the Mixamp can kinda do a PC, and maybe with research and reconfiguration you might be able to use a Turtle Beach DSS with a PC, but the Creative external soundcard actually has custom drivers for Windows (and Mac) while also supporting the ability to decode surround sound sent from a console. I don't know of any in-production internal soundcards that actually can support 5.1 DDL audio decoding from a PS3, and besides having the external Recon3D means you don't have to have your PC running to have console surround.
> 
> You can adjust the balance between game and chat volume on PC (even increase the gain/sensitivity of your microphone), but unfortunately it can't offer that on consoles (though the PS3 may offer system settings for a workaround, I admit I'm not very familiar with the PS3 advanced settings). On my Xbox, there is a setting that can quiet the game audio while somebody is talking, but I prefer to turn up the volume on my amp till i can hear my friends clearly, then use a game's setting to lower game volume manually to a comfortable level – this way game audio won't change when I'm trying to listen for an enemy and a friend starts talking.
> ...


 
  
 ugh that woot deal is so tempting. I could just toss the headset to one of my brothers and keep the DSS for myself. I don't like justifying the dss just for GTA5 though. I literally haven't touched my PS3 in months but GTA games are the only reason why i buy consoles (took a week off work at my first job for GTA4 lol). If rockstar would only announce a PC port already.... I know I would buy it bc I got GTA4 for PC once it hit steam essentially buying the same game twice.

 Mad, in your review you said the noise scales on the DSS so i'm guessing the hiss will be pretty bad if if i hooked up the DSS --> Asgard 2 --->X1


----------



## Evshrug

Phol,
 If you want the woot deal, jump on it, those sell out fast (if not already). Probably the best thing I can say about turtle beach headsets is the mic is quite sensitive, and you can balance chat/game volume, but otherwise there are easily better headphones. If you can buy a whole console for one game series, then you can justify a DSS and a birthday present for $30  Think of it as a special limited edition of GTA enhanced for headphones, LOL! Then, buy a Soundblaster Z. Asgard 2 maaaaaay be overkill for the X1, but hey do what makes ya!
  
  
  
  
 I GOT A PACKAGE TODAY!!!!


----------



## DairyProduce

evshrug said:


> Phol,
> If you want the woot deal, jump on it, those sell out fast (if not already). Probably the best thing I can say about turtle beach headsets is the mic is quite sensitive, and you can balance chat/game volume, but otherwise there are easily better headphones. If you can buy a whole console for one game series, then you can justify a DSS and a birthday present for $30  Think of it as a special limited edition of GTA enhanced for headphones, LOL! Then, buy a Soundblaster Z. Asgard 2 maaaaaay be overkill for the X1, but hey do what makes ya!
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What is it?


----------



## chicolom

xero404 said:


> Mad, in your review you said the noise scales on the DSS so i'm guessing the hiss will be pretty bad if if i hooked up the DSS --> Asgard 2 --->X1


 
  
 I wouldn't worry about it. 
  
 I use DSS > M-Stage > X1 and it's fine.


----------



## xero404

welp the deal is dead.... shoulda acted sooner lol


----------



## chicolom

There are always cheap DSSes on eBay...


----------



## Evshrug

dairyproduce said:


> What is it?



well it Arrived just as I was leaving for worK, which didn't Give me time to open it, but it should be something expensive but also something to look forward to tonight ^_^


----------



## DairyProduce

evshrug said:


> well it Arrived just as I was leaving for worK, which didn't Give me time to open it, but it should be something expensive but also something to look forward to tonight ^_^


----------



## Evshrug

Yes, now just 5 more hours...


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Probably the best thing I can say about turtle beach headsets is the mic is quite sensitive, and you can balance chat/game volume, but otherwise there are easily better headphones.


 
  
 While I wasn't a fan of the sound quality on the TB headset I used before there was one feature that really stuck out to me, and I've been trying to replicate it since. The headset had a feature to live monitor the microphone. To me that feature was excellent for 2 reasons. For one I could monitor my speaking volume because it was a closed headset. But, more importantly, it also allowed me to get rid of that closed headset in-head sound; the same kind you can hear by sticking your fingers in your ears while you speak. I've never been fond of that effect to any degree. I really wish the Recon3D USB had passthrough or monitoring for the mic line-in. That'd just be perfect for me. So I mainly play games with an open headset whenever I need a mic. The exception being the M-80/BoomPro combo. There's a program simply called LineIn for Mac, but since it's software driven there's a delay as soon as you begin using it, and that delay increases to more than a second with any use over about 30 minutes.
  
 So as much as I may dismiss TB headsets for their sound quality, I quite liked their mic monitor feature.


----------



## Evshrug

AxelCloris,
 oooh, now I remember that feature. Yeah, it actually weirded me out, but I didn't spend enough time to get used to it. I think it's entirely reasonable to have mic monitoring as an option (you sure there isn't one inside the Creative drivers? at least when run on a PC?), though I also noticed that on my friend's older TB sometimes I could hear HIS game audio through chat (tho I assumed it was because the mic was too sensitive, his was waaaay louder than everyone else on my friend's list, except other TB players, I wish mine was louder but not as loud as his).
  
 Two more hours...


----------



## AxelCloris

I haven't come across one in the Creative Trustudio settings on OS X. There's the mic monitoring native to Windows as well that I've tried using, but there's still enough latency to annoy me, so I don't use it. I've contemplated somehow running audio through my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 but that just seems like an overly complicated idea. But that does live monitoring through hardware. It's wonderful when recording on a true studio mic.


----------



## Phol

Gonna buy a pair of barely used Fidelio X1s from another user here at Head-Fi. Only $215 compared to the retail price of $350. Can pick-them up tomorrow so I'm pretty excited! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Really glad I signed up for this place!

 Also ordered one of those DX clip-on mics.
 Now all I need is a soundcard and/or mixamp and I should be all set!

_Evshrug_,
 I looked through your journal, good reading, taught me quite alot!


----------



## Mitchb2020

My dt990s are 220 aud still won't sell


----------



## pervysage

Currently drooling over the Fostex TH-900's. Man those are a nice looking pair of headphones.
  
 They would probably be heavenly for the music I listen to and for some gaming as well.


----------



## Evshrug

phol said:


> Gonna buy a pair of barely used Fidelio X1s from another user here at Head-Fi. Only $215 compared to the retail price of $350. Can pick-them up tomorrow so I'm pretty excited!
> 
> Really glad I signed up for this place!



Woot woot!




phol said:


> Also ordered one of those DX clip-on mics.
> 
> Now all I need is a soundcard and/or mixamp and I should be all set!
> 
> ...




Wooooooooot ^____^


----------



## pietcux

Come on, what did you receive?????


----------



## Evshrug

Welllll, a package did arrive, but I didn't have time to open it before work, and then I was almost falling asleep in the car on my home from work, and I had to work early today so........ I haven't even opened the shipping package yet. BUT! Today! Around 7 PM! I shall reveal!

Uh, the package. I mean shipment. Not taking my clothes off or anything.


----------



## pietcux

I am in Europe; so take your time....


----------



## Change is Good

mitchb2020 said:


> My dt990s are 220 aud still won't sell


 
  
 Time for a price drop...


----------



## Evshrug

mitchb2020 said:


> My dt990s are 220 aud still won't sell


 
  
 What are others in your area selling the DT990 for? And also, there just may not have been someone looking for that headphone yet. If you have the listing up for two weeks without selling, close the listing for a while and then try again near the end of October. Make sure you keep it clean, and take nice looking photos that show off how well you took care of them.


----------



## StigtriX

Thank you for this awesome guide! Have you tested any of the new gaming headsets made by Logitech? The G230 and G430? They are supposedly good, with satisfying quality for music listening as well as gaming. I would really appreciate if you or anyone who has tested these could comment upon the performance  I am leaning towards the Slyr as my headset for my laptop, but how well does it perform without a dedicated soundcard or an amp? I want the experience to be as hassle free as possible when I game on my laptop, with as few wires as possible.


----------



## Evshrug

pietcux said:


> I am in Europe; so take your time....



Ok, I've got a couple threads interested, so I'm going to be updating a first-impressions post (yes, the package is headphones, the K712 Pro) over the next hour or so with notes live as I listen on my journal thread.

•AKG K712 Pro - Live First Impressions


----------



## enerflyer

i think so,The foam headband is even better. Softer, and no pressure on top of the head whatsoever.thanks


----------



## Evshrug

enerflyer said:


> i think so,The foam headband is even better. Softer, and no pressure on top of the head whatsoever.thanks



Who are you talking to?


----------



## Mitchb2020

evshrug said:


> What are others in your area selling the DT990 for? And also, there just may not have been someone looking for that headphone yet. If you have the listing up for two weeks without selling, close the listing for a while and then try again near the end of October. Make sure you keep it clean, and take nice looking photos that show off how well you took care of them.




Yeah it has 8 watchers and i had an offer but declined it by accident Hahaha 

There is only brand new ones for 450 aud


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Who are you talking to?


 
  
  
 He must have just watched the new Insidious... he's talkin to his "friends" I guess


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So Steam has a Blops II free weekend. Downloaded it, and commenced getting my arse kicked. I dunno if it's because I'm using a controller or I'm just bad at the game...

Also bought RAGE, and the game makes me rage at the fact that it crashes as soon as I start it. I want my $4 back.


----------



## Evshrug

So wait... BLOPS 2 is F2P this weekend? This weekend only or we can get it free this weekend to keep using into perpetuity?
Feel like teaming up?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

F2p tbis weekend only, so basically only today is left.

I'm at work now. I might play later on today.

I'm under my name here, I believe.


----------



## Evshrug

Ah. How many hours later from now, do you think? I'll debate sleep/practice the meantime, lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

Oh how I wish I were able to game tonight. Only reason I'm not asleep yet is I'm waiting on confirmation that my Q701s are sold so I can pack it up and ship it out tomorrow before work. Silly work, interrupting my game time.
  
 While I'm sitting around not doing much, and on topic of gaming, what do you guys think about the announcement of the Steam Family Sharing? If it works out like I want, then that could be an excellent way of getting friends to experience games with excellent audio. I know quite a few people on my friend's list who haven't played Skyrim that would absolutely love the immersion that game can offer.


----------



## Evshrug

I think it's a good idea. Funny to think though, Steam is well-loved, but in many ways is like how the Xbox One was marketed.
I have Skyrim on DVD, but haven't installed it yer.

You're selling your Q701?? But wait... Haven't you tried tdockweiler's mod yet? It's all the rave in the Q701 appreciation thread!


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> You're selling your Q701?? But wait... Haven't you tried tdockweiler's mod yet? It's all the rave in the Q701 appreciation thread!


 
  
 Yeah, I'm selling it off. It's been good to me, but I really have my eyes on the Alpha Dogs coming out around the end of this month. Lately I've been playing games where I don't need a mic on my Mad Dogs, and I haven't played a ton of games where I needed chat functionality. The Mad Dogs are more comfortable than the Q701 are. I like the heavier weight they have and their clamping force is just perfect for me. 
  
 Lately I've been looking into upgrading my MD to AD, maybe getting the X1 as my next open full size headphone, and then after those maybe save up for a new amp to replace my Aune T1. But for now the T1 is a heck of a little DAC/amp combo. A bit sad I only get the tube sound when going USB, but I like what the package offers. Can't complain at all considering I got it for about $115. And as far as selling goes I may be selling off a couple other things here and there, though they're not really anything special; Monoprice headphones with Beyer DT250 pads and things like that. Just trying to consolidate things into a smaller collection with a focus on end game. I figure the "fun" X1 would go nicely with the reference ADs, plus the X1 would be perfect to use with my BoomPro mic that I currently have on the M-80 when I play using them.
  
 I haven't seen anything about the mod. I'll look it up, but I have a potential buyer lined up already and I'm still planning on going through with the sale. That money is needed elsewhere right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Finally got Rage to work. seems all I had to do was disable the Steam Community. What a fail.

Axel, if you want... I'm planning on loaning my X1 out to the peeps once I get the MA900 back. I may let them go to one of you guys for a little less since I'm gonna ship it out either way. You'd have to wait until Matt, Evs( if you're still interested in demoing a dark/warm headphone now that you've heard the K712), and calpis have had their runs with the MA900.

Gotta pay my brother for buying his monitor, and selling the X1 would basically break me even mor or less.

Just placed an order for the PX100-II for work use. Kinda been wanting it for a while, and my KSC35 keeps snagging onto things here and there, so I want something I can keep around my neck with no issue.

I recently put the KSC35 clips back on to the KSC35, and man... it really does balance out the sound more than the KSC75 clips. The PX100-II better be comparable...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Axel, if you want... I'm planning on loaning my X1 out to the peeps once I get the MA900 back. I may let them go to one of you guys for a little less since I'm gonna ship it out either way. You'd have to wait until Matt, Evs( if you're still interested in demoing a dark/warm headphone now that you've heard the K712), and calpis have had their runs with the MA900.





> Just placed an order for the PX100-II for work use. Kinda been wanting it for a while, and my KSC35 keeps snagging onto things here and there, so I want something I can keep around my neck with no issue.
> 
> I recently put the KSC35 clips back on to the KSC35, and man... it really does balance out the sound more than the KSC75 clips. The PX100-II better be comparable...


 
  
  
 Axel lives about ~45 minutes from me, so he's also welcome to try my X1s.  I figured he would have heard them at a meet by now, but it hasn't happened yet.
  
 The PX100 II is a lot warmer, darker, and thicker with more bass impact than the Koss.  The soundstage is more intimate too.  The clamp on them is fairly strong, a bit too much for my ears for an extended listening session.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm.... you're scaring me about it's comfort. Though things clamping onto my head don't bother me, as long as it's not HD280 Pro clamp. I feel the Parts Express headband to be too loose, so maybe the Px100-II will be a better fit, though nothing beats the KSC75 clips... though the 35 clips are comfy enough and the 35 sounds better with it's own clips.


----------



## chicolom

Part of the clamping problem was that the ear pads didn't rotate enough to sit directly on my ears.  One side of the pad was always pushing harder than the other and the pressure was unequally distributed.  If it had sit level on my ears it wouldn't have been as bad.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Axel, if you want... I'm planning on loaning my X1 out to the peeps once I get the MA900 back. I may let them go to one of you guys for a little less since I'm gonna ship it out either way. You'd have to wait until Matt, Evs( if you're still interested in demoing a dark/warm headphone now that you've heard the K712), and calpis have had their runs with the MA900.


 
  
 This ought to be an interesting experience...will the X1 succeed where the HE-400 didn't?
  
 That, of course, being the midrange. I don't like it raspy. I can take it a bit recessed since EQ can fix that, but EQ can't get rid of rough texture that shouldn't be there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You wanna test them out Nameless? Of course you're one to get the demo...

This is all assuming I haven't sold it.

How's the MA900 treating you? I miss mine, dearly.


----------



## chicolom

BTW,  I just picked up some HD650s to audition out of curiosity. 
  
  

  
  
 After trying them out last night, they're pretty decent, but they've mainly just reaffirmed my love of the K712s.
  
  
 Some impressions:
  
  
 Comfort wise, I had kind of forgotten about dat' Sennheiser clamp.  Granted this pair isn't that broken in, but still - it can be an issue.  .  I actually like the way it looks, and I like the lines and curves on Sennheisers full size headphones.  I hear they chip paint off a lot though.  The AKGs feel much loser and more flexible - I can twist and bend them around all over the place.  On the HD650 the whole headphone feels very rigid and not very flexible at all, like a tight piece of plastic.  The pads could stand to be a bit deeper.  They're not as deep as on the PC360.  I'm not a huge fan of how the headband padding fits me either.  There's no padding at the very top of the head which feels a little weird.  Sort of feels like the Audio Techinica wing system.
  
 Sound wise, the HD650 signature is pretty good.   Pretty balanced and with a clear a focus on the mids.  That's the same thing I said for the MA900, and the HD650 signature is not too far from the MA900.  The differences are the HD650 has more detail, more refinement, and a slightly more natural timbre.
  
 Next to the X1, the HD650 sounds slightly more refined, more mid-rangey, and more intimate.  They're also more boring (sorry ).  The HD650s are like a more buttoned-up version of the X1.  The X1 is like a more open and fun-titled version of the HD650.
  
 Next to the K712, it has less bass and less overall body.  I hear some low bass roll off in the HD650, and the mid bass is weaker.  The treble doesn't sound all that different between them.  I don't notice a huge difference in air amounts.  The lighter more midrangey signature makes the HD650 sound a little more "clear" in an immediate comparison (same as with the Q701), but I don't think they're necessarily more detailed.  Mainly more forward and intimate with a mid-range focus.  People always say the HD650 is great because it's nice and full sounding, but the K712 does all that better IMO.  I still prefer the timbre on the K712.   The K712 and HD650 take almost the same volume level on the amp, despite their different impedance.
  
 As for the soundstage....it _is_ on the intimate side :\  To be fair, MLE _did_ warn me about it. The HD650's imaging is actually pretty good (especially given the room it has to work with).  The problem is the soundstage itself feels very tightly compacted (at least for a full size open headphone).  It sounds like someone is taking their hands and fighting to try and hold all the different sounds in tightly together.  With the K712 it sounds like they give up and relax their hands to let the sounds spill out.  When I switch to the K712 it almost sounds like someone flipped some 3-D soundstage effect ON.  The placement feels much more relaxed and open.  The Fidelio X1 also reaches out farther to the left and right than the HD650.  Again, the imaging on the HD650 is pretty good, and you could use it for gaming.  It just could use more room to work with, and I personally need more soundstage room in a full-size open-headphone like this in order to live with it.
  
  
  What I like about the HD650 is it has a nice balanced signature with lovely mids and good detail.  The intimacy makes the mids very easy to hear.  If you love mids and don't mind intimacy, the HD650 can be great.  Unfortunately that intimacy is a bit of a deal breaker for me.  I wouldn't reach for these when I can get the same performance from the K712 but with a more spacious and open sound.  I prefer several things on the K712: It has more body, better low bass, a more natural timbre (IMO), larger instruments AND a larger more open soundstage (yes, both at the same time), and is more comfortable. 
  
 MA900s give you a similar signature with a more open sound than the HD650 but with a bit less refinement, less detail, and a bit less natural timbre.  I've read how some people prefer the HD650 to the HD800, but I know that wouldn't be me.  The HD800 has a _delicious _soundstage, while the HD650 soundstage leaves a bit of a sour aftertaste in my mouth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Told you, the MA900 is like a less refined, more open HD650. That's about as close to a comparison as I could give. Similar mid bass and sub bass roll off, intimate mids, and non-descript treble.

And I agree, it is a bit rigid, and the headband padding on top seems a bit awkward (I'd probably buy the headband padding if I owned the D7000), but I found them to be quite comfy overall. The HD650 is one of those headphones (like the MA900) that you can listen to without much if any fatigue. To me, the 650 is a special headphone. Nowadays, I wouldn't find a use for it, when the MA900 is more comfy, cheaper with a similar tonality, and more space, but if pure SQ is a concern, then yeah, I guess the MA900 would be moot when owning an HD650.

I think if the tonality is similar in the K712... that could make them quite a worthy headphone to own, though I personally had zero issues with the Annie, and I'd probably prefer the more intimate mids over the K712.


----------



## benbenkr

Becareful of the headband on the HD650, the middle part where there is no padding especially. I've seen and heard a few HD650s getting a faint crack down the middle if not handled properly, it doesn't happen right away but it's collective damage that happens over time.


----------



## Makiah S

Mad how would u compare the x1 to the 990pro... i want something with a tad less but deeper bass n sone more mids

he 400 seen to maybe fit the bill also how is the x1 i want a slighty more balanced v shape.. but with 990 sound stage actually... i want a deeper sound stage a little less width for sone depth would b a fair trade imo


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I think if the tonality is similar in the K712... that could make them quite a worthy headphone to own, though I personally had zero issues with the Annie, and I'd probably prefer the more intimate mids over the K712.


 
  
  
 I wouldn't say the K712 and HD650 are that close.  It'd be easier to EQ the X1 to sound like the HD650 and vice a versa than the K712 and HD650.  Part of that is because the instruments are closer in size with the X1 and HD650 (both smaller than the K712) and the soundstage and imaging also behaves more similarly between those two (although with different size between them).
  
 The K712 is a special headphone and is one of my all-time favorites. 
  
  


benbenkr said:


> Becareful of the headband on the HD650, the middle part where there is no padding especially. I've seen and heard a few HD650s getting a faint crack down the middle if not handled properly, it doesn't happen right away but it's collective damage that happens over time.


 
  
 Yeah, I've read about that. 
  
 This particular pair is in great shape and it will be sold before there's any chances of cracking/paint chipping happening.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mshenay said:


> Mad how would u compare the x1 to the 990pro... i want something with a tad less but deeper bass n sone more mids
> 
> he 400 seen to maybe fit the bill also how is the x1 i want a slighty more balanced v shape.. but with 990 sound stage actually... i want a deeper sound stage a little less width for sone depth would b a fair trade imo




I don't think the X1 is gonna satisfy you more than the 990 Pro in terms of deep bass, but it certainly has more mids, and less treble. Soundstage is similar, though the 990 will be wider.


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> I don't think the X1 is gonna satisfy you more than the 990 Pro in terms of deep bass, but it certainly has more mids, and less treble. Soundstage is similar, though the 990 will be wider.




i figured it was mid bass humpy... i just need a tung sol tube for my 990 add a touch of mids... still ill see how the he 400 is... grainy treble worries my a little though but we will c


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400 isn't gonna have that mid bass thump that the 990s have, so be warned. the bass is well presented and incredibly linear, but it is NOT emphasized, so don't expect anything near basshead level performance. Just natural bass.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> You wanna test them out Nameless? Of course you're one to get the demo...
> 
> This is all assuming I haven't sold it.
> 
> How's the MA900 treating you? I miss mine, dearly.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to the X1 opportunity. Getting to audition more headphones never hurts!
  
 As for the MA900, it's still working alright, though since I still own all my Stax equipment, it's still a secondary headphone. Competent, but I do notice the relative lack of clarity, and that's what ultimately draws me back.
  
 If it's like an HD650 with less overall sound quality and more soundstage...hmmm, I wonder just how much I'd actually like the HD650, especially in comparison to the MA900 itself. Too small of a soundstage can be a big turn-off, even if the sound signature itself is in line with my tastes. (That's where the Uptown certainly suffers; they talked up the soundstage for a closed headphone, but the width was decent at best, and the depth just didn't exist. Does a great job of isolation and making music enjoyable to listen to, though.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sorry, double post


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, next to the MA900, the 650's soundstage is gonna leave you disappointed. The mids, organic tone, and body of the 650 are what makes it special to me. The LCD2 further improves on everything I love about the HD650, other than it also being somewhat walled in terms of soundstage.


Sorry guys, the X1 just sold, so no demo. 

At least now I can pay off my brother... 

Looks like I'll be full sized headphone-less for about a month. :tongue_smile:

Don't worry about me, guys. Enjoy the MA900s. We'll see if impulses don't kick in and I find myself buying something else in the meantime. :rolleyes:


----------



## widdyjudas

Chico, you have tried using stocking to mod the x1 pad, will it change the sound?
I also want to buy stocking to protect my x1 pad. My gf thought i become a creep, buying a stocking...


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Chico, you have tried using stocking to mod the x1 pad, will it change the sound?
> I also want to buy stocking to protect my x1 pad. My gf thought i become a creep, buying a stocking...


 
  
  
 I haven't tried stockings, but I highly doubt it would affect the sound. 
  
 I've tried these and they don't affect anything:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/2625#post_9790098


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> The HE-400 isn't gonna have that mid bass thump that the 990s have, so be warned. the bass is well presented and incredibly linear, but it is NOT emphasized, so don't expect anything near basshead level performance. Just natural bass.




 i know but i want a nice linear bass. it has moe bass than the 880 right


----------



## widdyjudas

I cant find headphone cover here, not even online...
Damn, stocking is so expensive here, like 10usd a pair.
I just use a short woman socks, or whatever this is. Hope this works.


Edit, result:

Not exactly good, but close enough. I dont think it effect the sound...


----------



## Makiah S

chicolom said:


> I haven't tried stockings, but I highly doubt it would affect the sound.
> 
> I've tried these and they don't affect anything:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/2625#post_9790098


 
  
 Hmm good idea


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Looks like I'll be full sized headphone-less for about a month. :tongue_smile:
> 
> Don't worry about me, guys. Enjoy the MA900s. We'll see if impulses don't kick in and I find myself buying something else in the meantime. :rolleyes:



Guess I'd better pack up my M-100 today and ship it off tomorrow, just to keep your ears busy and give you something new to hear.

I am still interested in the MA900 for giggles. I was trying to find things to be critical of the K712 last night, and honestly I didn't find anything damning, especially after I switched amps. That tube needs to be rolled... Guess today is as good as any to bias the other Bugle Boy and see if I prefer it, or try a Voskhod for something new, or give the K712 a chance with the Sylvania I really enjoyed (magical) with the Q701. Back to the K712, the comfort is more than fair, I love it. Without having seen a frequency chart yet, it feels like you take a neutral line, bump up the mid or higher bass (while also increasing impact), make a small bump down somewhere in the mids but mostly level, and then the usual treble with a spike in it but the spike is more rounded and less glaring than in the Q, and possibly not as extended (little smoother darker, though not what I'd call a dark headphone). I think it's interesting to read Chico's HD650 impressions, because last night I was thinking by the end of it "this seems to match what people say to describe the HD650." I'd probably find the HD650 interesting, but if the HD650 was any more restrained and also less soundstage, I wouldn't need to keep it. I'm still interested in the DT880, though what is it? Better bass & treble extension than the Q701, but less midrange and more treble?


----------



## Makiah S

evshrug said:


> Better bass & treble extension than the Q701, but less midrange and more treble?


 
 Honestly I like the mids, not to great for Vocals but with enough Volts and the right pairing it's a sexy combo


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Axel lives about ~45 minutes from me, so he's also welcome to try my X1s.  I figured he would have heard them at a meet by now, but it hasn't happened yet.


 
  
 Unfortunately the meets have fallen on days where I haven't been able to get the time off. Last night was especially bad since the Mayweather vs Alvarez fight was on. Mayweather and most UFC fights have a tendency to absolutely kill our call centers. Tonight there's a WWE fight but thankfully they're not as popular, so I don't expect my agents will be as slammed as last night. I will make it to one of the meets this year, even if I have to organize it myself. Hopefully by the next one my ADs will be in. I don't think I've been that anxious for a headphone since I first ordered my Fischer FA-011s and had to wait on shipping from Russia.
  


evshrug said:


> Guess I'd better pack up my M-100 today and ship it off tomorrow, just to keep your ears busy and give you something new to hear.


 
  
 Now there's a review I'd be interested in seeing.


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> Honestly I like the mids, not to great for Vocals but with enough Volts and the right pairing it's a sexy combo



I always thought the DT880 would be attractive for me, though I would probably make use of my tube amp to find something with synergy to bring out the mids. That helped the HE400. Which is why I'm confused that the tube amp WASN'T my fav pairing with the K712 last night, though I will disclose that the particular tube I used isn't my fav AND when I was setting up I realized the amp was already on, powering nothing since Thursday night. Ehhhhh...




axelcloris said:


> Unfortunately the meets have fallen on days where I haven't been able to get the time off. Last night was especially bad since the Mayweather vs Alvarez fight was on. Mayweather and most UFC fights have a tendency to absolutely kill our call centers. Tonight there's a WWE fight but thankfully they're not as popular, so I don't expect my agents will be as slammed as last night. I will make it to one of the meets this year, even if I have to organize it myself. Hopefully by the next one my ADs will be in. I don't think I've been that anxious for a headphone since I first ordered my Fischer FA-011s and had to wait on shipping from Russia.
> 
> Now there's a review I'd be interested in seeing.



OOOH, which Audio Technicas? And what kind of call center? O_o
And yeah, I'm also quite interested in Mad's take, but I don't think he'd try them if they aren't provided. FWIR I think they may surprise him, pleather pads closed and all. Like Super Cal!s, lol.


----------



## Makiah S

evshrug said:


> I always thought the DT880 would be attractive for me, though I would probably make use of my tube amp to find something with synergy to bring out the mids. That helped the HE400. Which is why I'm confused that the tube amp WASN'T my fav pairing with the K712 last night, though I will disclose that the particular tube I used isn't my fav AND when I was setting up I realized the amp was already on, powering nothing since Thursday night. Ehhhhh...


 
 Oh crud, Evshurg you always shut down your gear after you done with it >.>
  
 also nice to see you again :3 I decided to skip the Tube Purchase and stick with SS for now. Till I can afford a nice one... as I'm starting to balance my headphones >.> and I'm wanting to run an all balanced At home rig


----------



## Evshrug

Holy Crap Mshenay, you're going balanced on me? Your ability to conjure up money amazes me 
This is only like the second time I forgot to shut off the tube amp, I don't think it actually hurts anything except for wasting some of the hours of life a tube will have. I'm not worried about it, the part that bothers me most is a little more spent on the electric bill (not sure how much).


----------



## Makiah S

evshrug said:


> Holy Crap Mshenay, you're going balanced on me? Your ability to conjure up money amazes me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 ME an MONEY... I didn't buy like 3 Tube amps now did I xD yea  I think ur in a league above me. Now that said, I got ym Dt 880 Balanced for $235 which I paid for with many sales buys and re sales 
  
 any how going with an Audio GD 10es2 which I can pay with mah paychecks and money from the Sale of my Matrix an oDac


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> OOOH, which Audio Technicas? And what kind of call center? O_o
> And yeah, I'm also quite interested in Mad's take, but I don't think he'd try them if they aren't provided. FWIR I think they may surprise him, pleather pads closed and all. Like Super Cal!s, lol.


 
  
 Audio Technicas? I'm lost now.  Can't stand their wing design so I stay far away from them. As for the call center, I work for one of the big bad cable companies. Use to be a tier 3 support technician but recently I moved into the command center for the midwest. Basically I'm one of the people in charge of managing the call volume for every call center east of the Mississippi with a couple small areas as exceptions.


----------



## Evshrug

I only ever bought the one tube amp, just 3 sets of tubes for $15-$20 each, only the FiiO E5 and E12 solid-state amps, and I still haven't bought an audiophile DAC. Not really judging, just reflecting on me and how I hem and haw for a long time about any purchase. Anywho, that balanced DT880 sounds high-tier legit, please make impressions available?


----------



## Makiah S

evshrug said:


> I only ever bought the one tube amp, just 3 sets of tubes for $15-$20 each, only the FiiO E5 and E12 solid-state amps, and I still haven't bought an audiophile DAC. Not really judging, just reflecting on me and how I hem and haw for a long time about any purchase. Anywho, that balanced DT880 sounds high-tier legit, please make impressions available?


 
  
 Sadly Balanced DT 880 is still Mid Fi, balanceing only REALLY adds to the sound stage. Aside from that not too much more
  
 and do you not own a Lyr? I mean you told me you got my Indeed than you bought like 2 other tubes amps a month later


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Audio Technicas? I'm lost now.  Can't stand their wing design so I stay far away from them. As for the call center, I work for one of the big bad cable companies. Use to be a tier 3 support technician but recently I moved into the command center for the midwest. Basically I'm one of the people in charge of managing the call volume for every call center east of the Mississippi with a couple small areas as exceptions.



Sorry, you said AD, and I immediately thought AD700, AD1000, etc.
I don't think the cable companies are big bad. I grew up without cable, wanted what I couldn't have for a while (before I got hard), but once we got cable (after I moved away to college) I just haven't been compelled to spend the money on it, and now that I'm back at my mom's (aaaany day now I'll find a roomie) and I can watch cable, I'd rather be doing one of my other hobbies. Ain't got no trouble with Cable, but it's not dear to me either. Mostly watch BBC ^_^


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Sorry, you said AD, and I immediately thought AD700, AD1000, etc.
> I don't think the cable companies are big bad. I grew up without cable, wanted what I couldn't have for a while (before I got hard), but once we got cable (after I moved away to college) I just haven't been compelled to spend the money on it, and now that I'm back at my mom's (aaaany day now I'll find a roomie) and I can watch cable, I'd rather be doing one of my other hobbies. Ain't got no trouble with Cable, but it's not dear to me either. Mostly watch BBC ^_^


 
  
 I'm not a TV watcher myself either. If the TV is on while I'm home It's on BBC America, Discovery or Science. Mostly I have Netflix on. I prefer to game, read or listen to music while surfing various online locations. My wife is the cable watcher in our household. If she weren't, I doubt I'd have the service. I only call it the Big Bad Cable Company because most people have a beef with the big players. It doesn't bother me at all. I mean, they sign my paycheck and I get awesome internet for cheap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hold on to the M100 Evs, at least until you get the MA900. I don't wanna spend so much on shipping things out so often. I'm sure I heard the M100 at the Apple store, though it may have been an LP2. I dunno, they all look alike, lol. I'm not the biggest fan of VModas design, but I did like the M80's sound and size. Besides, I might be getting the PX100-II soon. MAYBE. I might just cancel the order.


----------



## Makiah S

evshrug said:


> Sorry, you said AD, and I immediately thought AD700, AD1000, etc.
> I don't think the cable companies are big bad. I grew up without cable, wanted what I couldn't have for a while (before I got hard), but once we got cable (after I moved away to college) I just haven't been compelled to spend the money on it, and now that I'm back at my mom's (aaaany day now I'll find a roomie) and I can watch cable, I'd rather be doing one of my other hobbies. Ain't got no trouble with Cable, but it's not dear to me either. Mostly watch BBC ^_^


 
  
 Also Net Flix ftw cable stinks :3


----------



## Evshrug

Yep, that's why I was asking if it was ok, I know the return shipping isn't free. That said, I'm not without alternative headphones  If you end up holding on to them for around a month, that would be ok, I've got enough things to work on — people are curious about more impressions of Q701 vs K712, and I still wanna test other tubes, and I've got a lotta games to play... Mainly I'm going to be giving head-time to the K712 for a while anyway. I'll probably want an audio break while on break at work, lol!
Don't think the M-100s were in the Apple Store, they certainly aren't at the one closest to me now. The LP2s and I think M-80 were for a while. As you may remember, I had LPs, I think the M-100 makes fewer compromises, the M-100 are still my "fun" can but better all-rounder's.

I have a pair of PX-100, they were my walk-around headphones while I had the AD700, I used them a ton, the foam disks eventually let your ears touch driver housing with longer sessions but I almost never used them that way, the little bit of headband padding went a long way and they were very comfortable to grab and put on between classes or on a commute. They've been very reliable for me for like... Gosh, 7 years or so, I need to replace the foam pads now (understandably) but the folding method kept them safe and intact (I put them back in the included hard case every time until my senior year of college, but the way the cables are angled when folded I didn't put undue strain on them either when I just wrapped the cable around the center of mass). I'd put them a little above the KSC75 in SQ, a little more refined and less/not harsh. If you have the two Koss and a reference can at home, though, I don't see a "reason" to own them. Maybe try them, but not permanently "own" them, unless your Koss break.

The M-100 easily beats the PX100 at anything though (it does retain heat more, but I've been wearing the M-100 longer than I'd wear a session with the PX-100), more involving.


----------



## xero404

mad lust envy said:


> Well, next to the MA900, the 650's soundstage is gonna leave you disappointed. The mids, organic tone, and body of the 650 are what makes it special to me. The LCD2 further improves on everything I love about the HD650, other than it also being somewhat walled in terms of soundstage.
> 
> 
> Sorry guys, the X1 just sold, so no demo.
> ...


 
  
 Wooo! glad they sold for you. Now i can put my extra ones up for sale/ trade!


----------



## Evshrug

Xero404, there are two people with your name in Steam... If I just sent you a FR, message me with the phrase "Rampant Audio!"
Lol. "The duck is loose!" would also be acceptable.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Xero404, there are two people with your name in Steam... If I just sent you a FR, message me with the phrase "Rampant Audio!"
> Lol. "The duck is loose!" would also be acceptable.


 
  
 And the seal goes "ow ow ow,"


----------



## Evshrug

Crap, having trouble getting the Recon3D control panel displaying correctly... stupid PC making everything difficult, wasting my day. Probably gonna have to install the drivers on Mac just to configure the Recon3D just the way I want it, I don't want to mess around with uninstalling and reinstalling crap then updating etc. If my device is plugged in, and switched to PC mode, it should just work :/

/end rant.

Edit: after installing the Recon3D software with the device plugged in, restart, update, restart, open and close program a few times, then unplug and re plug in the device, now Windows is passing along the recognition of the device to the THX control panel software.

Update:
Ok, played 2 rounds of BF3 (one of them changed maps and gametype halfway through), I had a moment with the Recon3D and K712 where I heard someone running, turned around and looked under a train, saw the enemy, and easily ambushed him when he came around the corner. Yay! I'd play more but I spent most of the day relaxing and reading the forums, now it's time to eat.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> And the seal goes "ow ow ow,"



Lol, thanks for the applause


----------



## Change is Good

Evs, check your inbox


----------



## Evshrug

Did.


----------



## xero404

added you on the dota friends list. however GTA5 is out tomorrow and i may be unavailable for a few days lol.


----------



## MattTCG

Although my comments are not applicable for gaming directly, I'll offer them here for those considering the Sony ma900.
  
 ust received the Sony today. Here are my unbiased impressions of the ma900 as I don't know jack didley about it tbh.
  
 Really like:
  
 *supreme comfort. This hp simply "rides" on your head with a sub zero level of clamp. At first I wanted more clamp from it as it felt as though it would slip off my head if I bent over to tie my shoes. After a few minutes it simply disappears on the head and feel like nothing is there. Comfort is a very close second to sound signature in my book and I'll give the comfort on the Sony a solid 9.
  
 *good balance across the spectrum. No part of the signature is much out of place. The bass doesn't bleed into the mids. There is a nice transition from mids to treble without any congestion which is a common for many hp at this juncture in the sound. Everything flows freely between the mids and treble and feels easy and relaxed in presentation without any sense of strain to reproduce the music.
  
 Don't like:
  
 *the cable stinks. It couldn't be more cheaply made or any longer. It could double as a repelling apparatus should I ever decide to take up repelling. The first thing that I'd do is chop that cable in half and replace the jack with something decent. 
  
 *build quality and design. Still getting my brain around this. Looks and feels like a cheapie, at first. The more I use it though, the better it seems to be put together and more solid than my initial impression was. Seriously angled and open pads adds to the sound stage for me. I wonder if the pads could be about twice as thick. They feel somewhat like memory foam but I'm not sure on that. The real issue that I have with the design is that the cups are largish. I'd want to use these as a home portable and the cup size holds them back from doing that somewhat. 
  
 Kinda like:
  
 *The bass does go somewhat deep but the weight and visceral impact are somewhat lacking. This is not a deal breaker for me at all, particularly at this price point. The mid bass is present and not bloated. The sub bass in tight and in balance with the rest of the sound. 
  
 *The mids lack some of the natural tonality that I have come to love and appreciate. There is a hint of graininess that is present especially in female vocals. Again, I'm being VERY picky here and this is not a deal breaker either. In fact there is some nice body to the mids that impressed me after I got past the slight grainny sound. 
  
 *The treble is pretty darn good. I like a darker treble but one that can still resolve and extend when the material calls for it. There is nothing harsh or fatiguing whatsoever about the treble here. Cymbals and violins came through with nice realism. 
  
 Overall:
  
 After about three hours going through my test material, the Sony's are really growing on me. I wasn't even sure what the price point was and just went to check amazon.  Looks like about $200 shipped. In my estimation, what they offer certainly justifies the asking price. Will I go out and grab a pair? Not sure. If I see them on the used forum here for less, I'd jump on it for sure. 
  
 I was a bit disappointed when I listened to these on the x3 by fiio. Fortunately with the A2/bf the sound scaled up quite nicely and I found myself really getting lost in the music. These are good hp's, very good. The offer NO isolation. They do offer a nice comfortable experience and don't do much wrong and do so many things right. 
  
 Anybody want to sell their pair?


----------



## pervysage

Welp, ordered my first ever "flagship" headphone. The Fostex TH900.
  
 Can't wait to see how they perform with my music and games.


----------



## AxelCloris

pervysage said:


> Welp, ordered my first ever "flagship" headphone. The Fostex TH900.
> 
> Can't wait to see how they perform with my music and games.


 
  
 It'd be awesome if we could get those into MLE's hands for a short while  Hell, I'd pay for shipping both ways just to read his thoughts. To be able to compare the TH900 directly to the Alpha Dogs? Win!


----------



## Makiah S

axelcloris said:


> It'd be awesome if we could get those into MLE's hands for a short while  Hell, I'd pay for shipping both ways just to read his thoughts. To be able to compare the TH900 directly to the Alpha Dogs? Win!


 
  
 HIS impressions -.- I agree but you could always try them your self, but sadly the reality is he could get them easier
 than any of us could


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## AxelCloris

mshenay said:


> HIS impressions -.- I agree but you could always try them your self, but sadly the reality is he could get them easier
> than any of us could


 
  
 If I could afford to try out the TH900, believe you me I certainly would. I'd love to hear a current flagship. I'm used to hearing former flagships.
  


change is good said:


>


 
  
 Mmm, Bentley Continental GT


----------



## pervysage

change is good said:


>


 
  
 Been playing it over the weekend. Amazing game. Graphics wise, pretty much the same as GTA 4 though.
  
 But gameplay itself has improved alot. Cops are so damn aggressive in this game lol, they use all sorts of maneuvers to slow you down.
  
 Also loving the game audio. Pretty nice selection of music on the radio, and the cars sound and handle great.


----------



## Makiah S

pervysage said:


> Been playing it over the weekend. Amazing game. Graphics wise, pretty much the same as GTA 4 though.
> 
> But gameplay itself has improved alot. Cops are so damn aggressive in this game lol, they use all sorts of maneuvers to slow you down.
> 
> Also loving the game audio. Pretty nice selection of music on the radio, and the cars sound and handle great.


 
  
 I really dig aggressive cops, Need For Speed Most wanted was great! The Cops at lvl 5 started to break the laws of physics they'd have SUV doing about 300 mph, they'd fly, drive through walls and I even had them flip 18 wheelers at me. it was epic funnest cop chase game ever


----------



## chicolom

_Warning...Massive Multi-Quoting (MMQ) ahead...._





  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MattTCG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Here are my unbiased impressions of the ma900 as I don't know jack didley about it tbh.


 
   
 Nice impressions!  I agree with them.
  
  
 Quote:


pervysage said:


> Welp, ordered my first ever "flagship" headphone. The Fostex TH900.
> 
> Can't wait to see how they perform with my music and games.


 
  
 Nice!!  That's end-game material.




  


axelcloris said:


> It'd be awesome if we could get those into MLE's hands for a short while  Hell, I'd pay for shipping both ways just to read his thoughts.


 
  
 It's sounds similar to the D7000, for obvious reasons, so MLE should already have an pretty good idea of how they'd sound. 
  
 But ya. 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> If I could afford to try out the TH900, believe you me I certainly would. I'd love to hear a current flagship. I'm used to hearing former flagships.


 
  
 Come to an Ohio meet and you can!  Darryl (aka Preproman) in Cincinnati has an absolutely _stunning_ gear collection including several flagships such as the TH900.  He brought them to a meet and that's where I got to hear them.
  
  


pervysage said:


> Amazing game. Graphics wise, pretty much the same as GTA 4 though.


 
  
 This is coming to PS4 right?  If so, I think I'll wait for the souped up version.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> This is coming to PS4 right?  If so, I think I'll wait for the souped up version.


 
  
 No word of it, and I doubt it because this game has been developed for so long. Some people would wait, but they knew what they were doing by closing out the current generation with a bang. I'd expect Red Dead to be next year's R* release.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Come to an Ohio meet and you can!  Darryl (aka Preproman) in Cincinnati has an absolutely _stunning_ gear collection including several flagships such as the TH900.  He brought them to a meet and that's where I got to hear them.


 
  
 Trust me, I haven't missed them all due to a lack of trying. There's word of one coming in the next couple months; I'll be swapping days with someone at work for that event, as long as some kind soul is willing.
  
 Unrelated, but here's the banner ad from the bottom of the page while replying. I found it funny.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## widdyjudas

I usually played with headphone in pc. I want to try playing with it on console.
 Must I buy the Astro mix amp? or are there any other thing that I can use beside Astro? since I hear the quality of it is not that good.


----------



## Skipshrike

Creative Recon3D USB
Turtle Beach DSS - I remember this having good positioning, but I could never unhear a slight hiss.

The 2011 Astro mix amp works well for me.

Search this thread for more info on those devices. There are some good overviews/guides in this thread.


----------



## widdyjudas

Wow, very confusing cable setup for the astro mixamp. What kind of connector is that on the 360 for the astro? Is it the old connector?
 The creative recon is more simple, just optical cable or wireless I think? But I didnt see any optical output on my 360 (old black elite version). So, how do i connect the recon with my 360? Wireless?
 But the creative is 150usd, 50 more than the mixamp in here.


----------



## Skipshrike

The older xboxes need an adapter to get optical out. Astro uses optical into the adapter and USB into the Xbox. My friend's elite came with an adapter I think.

The Astro site has a PDF manual if that helps.

Link to info on getting 360 connections http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/audio-video-setup-and-use/connect-sound-system


----------



## PurpleAngel

matttcg said:


> Although my comments are not applicable for gaming directly, I'll offer them here for those considering the Sony ma900.
> Just received the Sony today. Here are my unbiased impressions of the ma900 as I don't know jack didley about it tbh.
> 
> Anybody want to sell their pair?


 
 What sources did you plug the Sony MA900s into?


----------



## MattTCG

Fiio x3, clip zip and uber frost.


----------



## widdyjudas

skipshrike said:


> The older xboxes need an adapter to get optical out. Astro uses optical into the adapter and USB into the Xbox. My friend's elite came with an adapter I think.
> 
> The Astro site has a PDF manual if that helps.
> 
> Link to info on getting 360 connections http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/audio-video-setup-and-use/connect-sound-system


 
 thanks for the guide, very helpful.
 Mine didn't come with an adapter, so I must separate buy the adapter and optic cable. Plus the astro or creative, its a rather hi investment here. I will re-consider...
 Will the astro or creative works with PS4 later? If yes, then its a good investment for me.


----------



## Evshrug

xero404 said:


> added you on the dota friends list. however GTA5 is out tomorrow and i may be unavailable for a few days lol.



Which DotA game do you play? I haven't downloaded one on my gaming PC yet. League of Legends? DotA 2? I may be unavailable for a few days too, have fun with GTA 5. (Side note, I was really impressed with the graphics on GTA 4 when that came out; the design work, humor, variety, time of day/weather light shading, and the sheer scale of stuff all blew me away, even if there weren't a lot of particle effects or high-rez textures.)



widdyjudas said:


> Wow, very confusing cable setup for the astro mixamp. What kind of connector is that on the 360 for the astro? Is it the old connector?
> The creative recon is more simple, just optical cable or wireless I think? But I didnt see any optical output on my 360 (old black elite version). So, how do i connect the recon with my 360? Wireless?
> But the creative is 150usd, 50 more than the mixamp in here.



USD? Wow. If you're buying US, you gotta be able to find it cheaper online. If you can't though, you'd probably be better off with just two separate devices, one for console and one for PC, picking one or both with a cheap option.

Currently, unless you buy a whole receiver with HDMI and virtual surround built-in ($200 and up, better off not buying the cheapest entry-level ones either), all the surround processors for consoles only get fed a 5.1 DDL surround signal through Optical. I also have the 360 Elite, my HDMI cable is plugged into my computer monitor and a "Xbox 360 audio dongle" plugged into the wide proprietary slot above that. The dongle only cost almost $3, you can get 'em cheap on Amazon and they work perfectly fine. The Recon3D needs optical for the sound, and USB plugged in for power. Two cables going basically to the same place (if you plug the USB into the back like me), so not too much of a ray's nest. I think the setup with a Mixamp is basically the same? The wireless only works with Creative's Omega headphones, no idea if those sound any good. Of course the trickiest part for any designer is integrating chat with the Xbox, since the chat audio is tied (or at least the mic input) to a controller, Creative includes an adapter (ribbon cable from TV to your seating area, with an ending hub for you to plug in your headphones, mic, and controller audio) which works well but is kinda long of you're next to the Xbox anyway.

I think PS4 and XBO will both have the same optical audio out (and HDMI), so these devices should still be relevant. The PS4 I think is still using USB or Bluetooth for mic input, but (of course) Microsoft is going to be even more proprietary with their mic stuff. *shrug* Astro already announced they have to make a whole new device for the XBO, but they're "excited about the possibilities." Yeeeeeah, still leaning PS4 myself, if I don't get gobbled up by Steam 




axelcloris said:


> Mmm, Bentley Continental GT




That's the second thing I noticed, first I was wondering "why is she wearing headphones on her eyes... Oh, I'm just blinded by that Bentley." Still, enjoying your humor! UE UE UE UE UE UE UE UE...
------


Matt!
Tanks for the impressions! We head-Fi'ers live and breathe on the sustainable that is gear reviews, lol! Glad you liked 'em, and that they have a soul beyond just gaming


----------



## widdyjudas

Ev, thanks for the suggestion. 
I only can buy either in hk or China. Actually, i can ask my bro in usa to buy the recon, dont know when he will come here though...
I think i can get the 360 audio adapter for cheap, and optic cable. The recon is quite expensive at 150usd, but if i can use it on the ps4 with my philips x1, its a rather good investment imo. Also yes, xbn and ps4 will have optic out.
Stupid 360, why dont they come with optical out in the first place. Even the ps2 got it... I regretted, didnt get ps3. So many exclusive i want to play, mgs4, nino no kuni, killzone, uncharted. 
That is why i dont want to repeat the same mistake and choose ps4 next gen, and cheaper too. I'm sure most xbn games will come to pc eventually, and like 360, it will dry out of exclusive titles fast.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't know what it is with these K712's and amping with it... I've got it plugged straight into my iPod (5th gen video), and I heard a recorded sample that startled me into thinking my mom had come in and was doing something behind me. I also really enjoyed the timbre of the bells at the end of "Spies" by Coldplay (start playing right at 4:19, some of the little flourishes hidden in tracks amaze me that artists bother to add them knowing most people won't appreciate them). If a song calls for it, these also seem to have fun playing with physical puffs of air that I can feel touch my ears, and the smooth movement of something panning around is special.

Mad, you'll be glad to know that nothing has cut, irritated, or glared since that first time using the microphonic tube that has a bit of a ringing problem of it's own. Edit: Don't listen to "Just" on Radiohead's "the Bends" album, with probably any headphone that's not a Bose or something. I don't remember what bitrate I ripped the CD at, but no. Just no.


----------



## chicolom

Often when I'm listening to the K712s I'll think somebody has opened or closed a door behind me somewhere, but then I'll pause and rewind the track it and turns out to just be something in the recording.


----------



## Evshrug

Widdyjudas,
Were you just looking for a console solution? I'd suggest you just get a DSS shipped from American eBay (or somewhere); unless you think you'd prefer the Creative surround processing and intermediate tweakability, then the DSS is just as good and cheaper. I don't know if it's the amp I have after the DSS or the 62 Ohm impedance of the AKG headphones I have, but I don't actually hear hiss from the DSS. I heard a bit with my 32 Ohm V-MODA plugged directly into the DSS, but not so bad, I forgot about the low noise/hiss while playing, but I haven't tried the M-100 with the DSS and an amp in-between.

*Chico*,
that's exactly what I did when I heard that, rewound the track to check my sanity, still sounded eerily believable. These K712 sound like the same family, but a different headphone from the Q701. Still, the Q701 did that realism thing to me once with geese, imagine how that messed with me, haha! I'm enjoying them even out from my headphone jack of my iPod, volume's at like 45%.
Civil Twilight, you guys are a cool band


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Often when I'm listening to the K712s I'll think somebody has opened or closed a door behind me somewhere, but then I'll pause and rewind the track it and turns out to just be something in the recording.




Lol, I get that sensation at times with the KSC35 at work (since I wear it like 7 hours a day, and of course most fully open headphones do the same). The MA900 is exceptional at that mindtrick.


----------



## widdyjudas

Ev, yes this is for console solution. For PC, i just use my x1 via Fiio E17.
 Turtle beach DSS is almost the same price with the creative here... I just checked its 120usd, just 30 less than the recon.


----------



## chicolom

Anyway to import the DSS? It's $25 here


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> Anyway to import the DSS? It's $25 here


 
 Lol, just 25usd??? you can supply the internet store here if you can... Or i'll open a store and you guys supply, we can make a fortune here...


----------



## MattTCG

> Matt!
> Tanks for the impressions! We head-Fi'ers live and breathe on the sustainable that is gear reviews, lol! Glad you liked 'em, and that they have a soul beyond just gaming


 
  
 As I told MLE, these were nowhere on my radar and they completely caught me off guard. I had the longest listening session that I've had in many months with them. At the end of the night, I went over the ebay, found them for a great price and bought them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm even curious to check out how they sound for gaming and movies. Is anyone still playing UT2007? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Kidding..


----------



## Evshrug

matttcg said:


> Is anyone still playing UT2007? :blink:  Kidding..



I bet Nameless does.


----------



## NamelessPFG

To be honest, UT2007/UT3 might be played more IF it had any semblance of a following.
  
 The playerbase favors UT (the original 1999 release) and UT2004, though, so that's where I go.


----------



## Makiah S

:O so I uhh... just got an ATH AD900x for free it seems! Boy today is going to b fun! Should I burn it in and review or it just shoot straight out the box
  
 in addition I wonder how it would sound with the w1000x pads, the w1k stock pads added bass and slighty forward mids to my HP 100 and the ATH AD900x is a full size 53mm can so... I wonder how they'd sound :O time to review


----------



## Skipshrike

AKG K712 for gaming. Yup, absolutely love it. It shatters the X1 as a competitive headphone and I think it has just enough of a fun factor still. BF3 and L4D2 were fantastic with it.
  
 It could not replace the X1 for me because it's strengths, accuracy, timbre, realism and thin, analytical nature just do not work for me with certain songs or games (Heavy-handed action FPS' like Halo, Crysis, COD single player, games where you go around blasting things). I highly prefer the X1 out of my mixamp for console gaming, but I might need an amp there because the K712 loses some of the magic from my PC gaming.  With PC gaming the SB Z is more than enough.


----------



## unclerico

*iso--->IEM Recommendations*
  
 I currently use senn. pc360 w/astro mixamp and mainly play COD. However, when I'm not playing w/buddies I always use my cheap skull candy earbuds/mixamp. The earbuds definitely lack the large sound stage and enemy shot direction, and mic, but they're so darn comfy, and do the job fine when i'm just messing around.
  
 I'm curious if there are any iem's around $100 or so, that would be good for gaming?
 Do large sound stages even exist in the iem world?
 Do iem's with mics sound decent while gaming. Will my teammates complain at my voice quality?
  
 Thanks in advance for any help!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

skipshrike said:


> AKG K712 for gaming. Yup, absolutely love it. It shatters the X1 as a competitive headphone and I think it has just enough of a fun factor still. BF3 and L4D2 were fantastic with it.
> 
> It could not replace the X1 for me because it's strengths, accuracy, timbre, realism and thin, analytical nature just do not work for me with certain songs or games (Heavy-handed action FPS' like Halo, Crysis, COD single player, games where you go around blasting things). I highly prefer the X1 out of my mixamp for console gaming, but I might need an amp there because the K712 loses some of the magic from my PC gaming.  With PC gaming the SB Z is more than enough.


 
  
 No magic can change the SQ of the Mixamp to Soundblaster Z levels. We need better devices.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

So I'm getting a WiiU for Windwaker HD(sad?) and I've been reading about their cheapskate license fees are for suckers ass-backwards audio solution. Seems the only way to get surround sound from the Wii U to the Astro 5.8 is run it through a receiver with HDMI inputs and connect the Astro 5.8 it with the optical out on the receiver. I'm in the market for a receiver anyway and I'm kinda set on one with a optical output (Yamaha RX-A1030). This should work, right? (Buying a 1100 dollar receiver to get functionality out of a 300 dollar console lol)


----------



## burritoboy9984

northernavenger said:


> So I'm getting a WiiU for Windwaker HD(sad?) and I've been reading about their cheapskate license fees are for suckers ass-backwards audio solution. Seems the only way to get surround sound from the Wii U to the Astro 5.8 is run it through a receiver with HDMI inputs and connect the Astro 5.8 it with the optical out on the receiver. I'm in the market for a receiver anyway and I'm kinda set on one with a optical output (Yamaha RX-A1030). This should work, right? (Buying a 1100 dollar receiver to get functionality out of a 300 dollar console lol)




Didn't I read somewhere that the Wii U only supports surround sound via LPCM? If that is the case, you will never be able to get proper audio to your mixamp to be decoded as it needs a DD signal. You could get a receiver that supports Dolby Headphone so that you would have surround emulation though.

-Erik


----------



## PurpleAngel

northernavenger said:


> So I'm getting a WiiU for Windwaker HD(sad?) and I've been reading about their cheapskate license fees are for suckers ass-backwards audio solution. Seems the only way to get surround sound from the Wii U to the Astro 5.8 is run it through a receiver with HDMI inputs and connect the Astro 5.8 it with the optical out on the receiver. I'm in the market for a receiver anyway and I'm kinda set on one with a optical output (Yamaha RX-A1030). This should work, right? (Buying a 1100 dollar receiver to get functionality out of a 300 dollar console lol)


 
 All Yamaha A/V receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's version of Headphone Surround Sound.
 So no need for the Astro Mix-Amp.
 Run HDMI from gaming console (WiiU) to Yamaha receiver, and the run HDMI from Yamaha to Monitor/TV
 Plug headphones into Yamaha receiver.
 As your using HDMI, your getting the best possible audio transfer from the WiiU.
 What headphones do you have?


----------



## Evshrug

northernavenger said:


> So I'm getting a WiiU for Windwaker HD(sad?) and I've been reading about their cheapskate license fees are for suckers ass-backwards audio solution. Seems the only way to get surround sound from the Wii U to the Astro 5.8 is run it through a receiver with HDMI inputs and connect the Astro 5.8 it with the optical out on the receiver. I'm in the market for a receiver anyway and I'm kinda set on one with a optical output (Yamaha RX-A1030). This should work, right? (Buying a 1100 dollar receiver to get functionality out of a 300 dollar console lol)


 
  
 I 2nd PurpleAngel's solution; Yamaha's included Silent Cinema vs Dolby Headphone is too close to call, obviously the receiver would allow more sound signature adjustments (and multiple inputs and remote control), you can also connect to speakers, etc etc. A mixamp would be redundant, unless you want it just for the wireless. What do you get out of the 1100 dollar receiver you couldn't get out of a mid-range receiver, regarding headphone usage? Just curious what is driving you to the top range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my PX100-II. I really like them. Fuller sounding than the KSC35/Sportapro, and less grainy on the upper end. They're also very comfy and lightweight. For the purpose of work as something I can wear around the neck, these are solid. Comfort is about as good as the KSC35 with the Parts Express headband, with a more secure fit (I felt the PE headband was way too lose for me).

All in all, so good so far. It trades off some of the airiness in the 35s for more of a big headphone sound, so I find it a worthwhile compromise. 

Like it much more than my PX200-II which was so sensitive to seal, and the pleather pads didn't get anything remotely close to a proper seal for me, so it always sounded tinny and trebly. Foam pads ftw.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Check out the Philips headphone lab
  
http://www.headfonia.com/making-high-quality-headphones-philips-ilab-belgium/
  
 now you can find out whom to talk to about a possible X2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like the way Philips does things. I'm interested in hearing the L2. It sounds like a winner.

If the make an X2 with removable pads, a smidge less mid bass, and more sub bass.... well, that will be one hell of a winner in my book. The X1 is easily the most consumer friendly headphone I have ever owned. The got the sound signature almost perfect for the masses, the comfort is top notch, and the price makes them a steal.


----------



## miceblue

fegefeuer said:


> Check out the Philips headphone lab
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/making-high-quality-headphones-philips-ilab-belgium/
> 
> now you can find out whom to talk to about a possible X2.


 
 Nice article. It is interesting to see some of the test results that they did.
  
 I'm not sure if Jude enjoyed it though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree MLE. Soundwise to me the one-noty bass (and a bit lack of extension into the lows) and the mid-bass pronunciation are the only real deal breakers. If they get this right with a X2 I'd instantly get one. It would be the most complete open headphone up into even higher price ranges.


----------



## ethan7000

fegefeuer said:


> Check out the Philips headphone lab
> 
> http://www.headfonia.com/making-high-quality-headphones-philips-ilab-belgium/
> 
> now you can find out whom to talk to about a possible X2.



Great article. This confirms I'll be replacing my L1.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Got my PX100-II. I really like them. Fuller sounding than the KSC35/Sportapro, and less grainy on the upper end. They're also very comfy and lightweight. For the purpose of work as something I can wear around the neck, these are solid. Comfort is about as good as the KSC35 with the Parts Express headband, with a more secure fit (I felt the PE headband was way too lose for me).
> 
> All in all, so good so far. It trades off some of the airiness in the 35s for more of a big headphone sound, so I find it a worthwhile compromise.
> 
> Like it much more than my PX200-II which was so sensitive to seal, and the pleather pads didn't get anything remotely close to a proper seal for me, so it always sounded tinny and trebly. Foam pads ftw.


 
  
  
 Glad you like them.  I liked them too, they just hurt my ears a little.  They're a little dark and intimate, but they have really impressive body to the sound for that type of headphone.  I like the build quality too, and the way they fold up.  They feel well built and sturdy.
  
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> If the make an X2 with removable pads, a smidge less mid bass, and more sub bass.... well, that will be one hell of a winner in my book. The X1 is easily the most consumer friendly headphone I have ever owned. The got the sound signature almost perfect for the masses, the comfort is top notch, and the price makes them a steal.


 
  
  


fegefeuer said:


> If they get this right with a X2 I'd instantly get one. It would be the most complete open headphone up into even higher price ranges.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I think Philips surprised everyone with the X1.  It's one impressive combination of traits in a headphone, and it's so close to being "perfect" at what it does that it deserves some TLC and a little bit of sonic tweaking to get it there (and definitely some removable and replaceable pads).


----------



## widdyjudas

X2 with replaceable pads and bit more controlled bass will be sweet!
 Anyway, can I use my E17 like mixamp on console? Anyone tried it before?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course. You just won't get any virtual surround.


----------



## widdyjudas

Really? Not even the x1 soundstage or e17 setting helps?
Damn, i thought i can save some money...
Is the difference that significant with the mixamp or recon's surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I explain all this on the first page...


----------



## TSTY

Just found this, Tt eSPORTS BAHAMUT.
 From the looks of it, it can decode DTS.
 Wonder how it sounds compared to the Mixamp...


----------



## AxelCloris

tsty said:


> Just found this, Tt eSPORTS BAHAMUT.
> From the looks of it, it can decode DTS.
> Wonder how it sounds compared to the Mixamp...


 
  
 I might test this device simply for the fact that it does OS X. Another external OS X sound card would be welcomed in the market; give the Recon3D USB a run. And if it allows live mic monitoring... /drool.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj-Mp-lp6UE[/VIDEO]

As for that bahamut device... someone send it to me! 

USB only though. Meaning no console gaming.


----------



## chicolom

What DSP does it use?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like it's own virtual surround. Interested in hearing it.

So far so good with the PX100-II. Volume-wise, I actually demands more than the X1 and MA900 at least in terms of decibel level... O_O

Kinda wish it was a little bigger, as it digs into my neck when I wear them there, which is the main reason I bought them in the first place. Ah well...

I have a meaty neck. 

edit:

So first day impressions on the PX100-II

I'm quite amazed at how good they sound for the $48 I spent. They won't overthrow the Sony MA900 as far as my fave warm/smooth headphone at any value (I love them more than even the LCD2, HD650, K702 Annie, ESP950, and a few others, mostly because they represent an incredible value to performance ratio, as well as being absurdly light weight and unimaginably comfortable). But man, for this price, the PX100-II is a no brainer. The Koss KSC35/Sportapro sound grainy and thinner (albeit more airy), and those were my fave headphone south of $100. This is the portable headphone to own if you're on a budget. I'm sure I would prefer the sound on the Creative Aurvana Live over the PX100-II, but those are closed and pleather padded which is already two strikes, not to mention not exactly portable sized.

In short: The PX100-II is *awesome*.

Bass: Deep and rich and full bodied, without being bloated or overbearing. A bit heavy on emphasis in comparison to what I've recently owned (including the X1, but without the bass fatigue SO FAR), so I'd say the bass is the strongest aspect of the PX100-II's sound at least in terms of emphasis.

Mids: Rich and forward. Also rich and full bodied. I'm on a roll when it comes to mids lately. The mids will please ANY mid lover. For sure. 

Treble: Smooth, non-fatiguing, and neither too soft or too strong for my taste. Not exactly adding air, and the PX100-II is decidedly more intimate with a smaller soundstage compared to the KSC35, but it sounds more mature and controlled. If you're on the hunt for soundstage, the PX100-II will disappoint.

I find the Px100-II sounds like a baby HD650 in many ways. Sennheiser really knows how to keep their house signature sound in check. If you like the MA900, HD650, LCD2, K702 Annie/K712 Pro, KSC35, Creative Aurvana Live, ESW9, there is NO way you won't appreciate the sound off the PX100-II, especially at under $50.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

burritoboy9984 said:


> Didn't I read somewhere that the Wii U only supports surround sound via LPCM? If that is the case, you will never be able to get proper audio to your mixamp to be decoded as it needs a DD signal. You could get a receiver that supports Dolby Headphone so that you would have surround emulation though.
> 
> -Erik


 
 Aha. I'm new to this. I just figured as long as the receiver could accept LCPM it would "translate" it to the 5.8 mixamp through the optical output. You're saying this is not the case and I would either get silence or regular stereo and it's impossible to get WiiU surround through the wireless system?
  


purpleangel said:


> All Yamaha A/V receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's version of Headphone Surround Sound.
> So no need for the Astro Mix-Amp.
> Run HDMI from gaming console (WiiU) to Yamaha receiver, and the run HDMI from Yamaha to Monitor/TV
> Plug headphones into Yamaha receiver.
> ...


 
 Most def. I was only exploring this option for a wireless solution though. I currently have the Astro 5.8 Rx unit "strapped to my earring-modded Fostex TH900, connected with a really short removable cable for console gaming.(looks silly, but it works suprisingly well)
  


evshrug said:


> I 2nd PurpleAngel's solution; Yamaha's included Silent Cinema vs Dolby Headphone is too close to call, obviously the receiver would allow more sound signature adjustments (and multiple inputs and remote control), you can also connect to speakers, etc etc. A mixamp would be redundant, unless you want it just for the wireless. What do you get out of the 1100 dollar receiver you couldn't get out of a mid-range receiver, regarding headphone usage? Just curious what is driving you to the top range.


 
 Yeah it was partly for getting a wireless solution. The Yamaha was one of the few receivers I really liked that also had a optical toslink output(for the Astro) and multiple HDMI outs for my other monitors.
  
  
 Thanks for the pointers guys.


----------



## NamelessPFG

chicolom said:


> What DSP does it use?


 
  
 It says DTS Surround Sensation Headphone right on the device itself. Must be their answer to Dolby Headphone. As to why that exists along with DTS Headphone X, I'm not entirely sure yet, though DTS Headphone X may rely entirely on a pre-mixed signal for movies, thus being entirely useless for an interactive environment (read: gaming).
  
 This does NOT mean it can decode a DTS signal, because there simply aren't any S/PDIF inputs on the Bahamut. If you're looking for a console gaming device, look elsewhere.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, its usb only... a shame.


----------



## Fegefeuer

DTS Surround Sensation is something very basic, I have it on my mainboard, it's like SRS Surround for TVs, just something to play around a bit to not have stereo only. Forget about it. DTS Headphone X is something much more sophisticated, at least for movies where it will be pretty much untouchable unless Dolby does the same thing for TrueHD. You can't beat embedded binaural info with speaker virtualization.


----------



## benbenkr

Hey guys, I figured that this hasn't been said yet and I found it rather intriguing on a console game — GTA5 has an option to control speaker front and rear speaker placements, with 3 different presets.
  
 If that sounds similar to you on the TB's DSS2, it is.
  
 I know speaker placements has been done on PC games plenty of times before so it isn't really new, but I haven't actually seen a game that allows this functionality (at least till the point of controling the placement of your speakers) on a console yet.
 The intended use is for an actual 5.1 speaker setup, where the game allows the user to calibrate their speaker positions because not everyone has a perfectly ideal 5.1 setup properly in the room.
  
 Now what does this have to do with headphones through Dolby Headphones then?
 Virtual speaker placements with a significant difference depending if it's closed or open. Options available are Wide, Medium and Narrow (for both front and rear channels) — 75°, 45°, 25° respectively.
  
 So this allows for headphones with limited soundstage to actually have a slightly better representation of positional cues depending on the option selected. I was only playing the game on a HD558 and liked the way game sounds with Medium for both front and rear selected. I will try with a closed ATH-M50/DT770 today and play around to see the difference, as well as an X1 to see how all these settings fair when mixed around.
  
 The great thing is that you can set Narrow on the front (mids forward then) and wide on the rear so that positional accuracy isn't entirely lost, while giving a boost to dialogue/vocals.
  
 Quite interesting really and I wish that many more games in the future especially with the next-gen titles that do include this type of audio customization, since we are limited in a way where HRTF isn't being used anymore and we're stucked with pre-canned multi channel audio for the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one game I distinctly remembering having it is Star Ocean: The Last Hope (360/PS3)


----------



## widdyjudas

I just started playing that star ocean now... just finished crysis 3 and not interested with gta5. Am i the only one that dont like gta series...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't either. However, I may eventually try this one. After Sleeping Dogs, I got a taste for the genre.


----------



## NorthernAvengeR

Sleeping Dogs is so underrated. GTA V is really good so far as well. They make a lot of smart choices and the heist missions are fantastic. They're basically what I hoped Payday would be. I wouldn't say it's revolutionary as it's definitely a full on sequel, but I can see myself spending way too much time in Los Santos. Saints Row is silly fun, but Rockstar are better "world builders" imo.


----------



## reddyxm

I remember playing GTAIV when it first came out but didn't finish the game. 4 years later I try to play the game again and I just couldn't do it. I don't have a taste for these games anymore. I mean I have played GTA 3 and Vice City.
  
 I did play Sleeping Dogs though. It wasn't too bad.


----------



## Change is Good

I grew up playing all the Grand Theft Autos... so its in my nature to jack fools and murk da police... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Sleeping Dogs took it to another level with its combat...


----------



## widdyjudas

Is sleeping dog good? I forgot I have that game and just laying there...
 I want to start star ocean, but not really in mood to start a long rpg. Got Rayman origin and legends too, but also not in the mood.
 btw, can the astro be used with pc? How do I connect it?


----------



## benbenkr

Sleeping Dogs is good, if not a little rough around the edges. Not bad for a dev doing their first open world sandbox though, many other devs didn't even achieve what Sleeping Dogs did in their first try.


----------



## Change is Good

It was originally part of the True Crime series until Activision dropped it... hence Square Enix picking it up and changing the name...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have to second Chico in saying that the PX100-II can get a bit bothersome on the ears. Having spent a few hours the past few days with it... it IS now starting to physically hurt my ears. Neither the KSC75 nor the KSC35 do this, so I'll have to say that the comfort CAN be better. I dunno how I feel about this, since I REALLY like the PX100-II in general, but comfort for me IS top priority... so I don't think I'll be keeping these. I will at least get enough experience with them to put up a review, since I do think more than not, these are an absolute solid pair of headphones. They deserve some spot light.

That being said, I don't think the majority of people will have an issue with them, but I'm really picky with comfort. Like REALLY.


----------



## chicolom

Comfort was the main reason I sold them.  :\


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing breaks my heart here more than amazing sounding headphones that are ruined by lack of comfort. That's like puppies that cause cancer if you touch them...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Nothing breaks my heart here more than amazing sounding headphones that are ruined by lack of comfort. That's like puppies that cause cancer if you touch them...


 
  
 LOL  
 Or puppies that cause AIDS, depending on _where_ you touch them.   :x
  
  
 That's why I stay away from certain closed pleathery headphones.  Even if they sound good I don't want to know because it will be bittersweet when I never want them on my head.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah man. The LCD2, D7000, ESP950, SR407, etc, etc.... man do they sound amazing... but can't be worn for too long without just making me rage at their comfort.

Now with those pad covers you and that other person posted.... I would give the Denons another go...


----------



## widdyjudas

Me and my friend also agreed on the comfort issue. Its better to have a comfortable cans that i actually WANT to wear and for long period, than a superb sounding one but I hesitant to wear and only able to use for short time.
For the Denon D7000, i wished they have velour than pleather. 
Starting sleeping dog now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder how the D7000 would sound with the LCD2 vegan pads. i really loved those pads. They really helped the LCD2's comfort, but unfortunately, they were still too heavy.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> I have to second Chico in saying that the PX100-II can get a bit bothersome on the ears. Having spent a few hours the past few days with it... it IS now starting to physically hurt my ears. Neither the KSC75 nor the KSC35 do this, so I'll have to say that the comfort CAN be better. I dunno how I feel about this, since I REALLY like the PX100-II in general, but comfort for me IS top priority... so I don't think I'll be keeping these. I will at least get enough experience with them to put up a review, since I do think more than not, these are an absolute solid pair of headphones. They deserve some spot light.
> 
> That being said, I don't think the majority of people will have an issue with them, but I'm really picky with comfort. Like REALLY.


 
  
 I have the same exact issue with my PX-100 ii's, it's the main thing that prevents me from using them more than I do, my ears physically hurt from them after wearing more than like an hour. I have only owned three headphones that satisfied my comfort as I am very picky about comfort, the MA900(had issues with the headband digging in my skull at first but the issue went away after a week), K240(pleather pads suck the first few weeks but once they break in they are comfy), and the K514 MKII(piece of crap, don't buy, no bass and very harsh). All the rest had some sort of issues such as causing the area around my ears to hurt, actual ears hurting from too small pad openings, excessive clamp, uncomfortable headband, etc.


----------



## widdyjudas

My only problematic one is the at m50. Oh God the clamp, even with the stretching its still hurting my ear so much. Plus i'm wearing a glasses adds the level of discomfort, and the hot pleather pads. 
Hifiman he400 with velour pads is fairly comfy, just wished its a bit lighter then i might not sold it for the x1.


----------



## chicolom

The K240 are comfortable to you??
  
 You must have tiny ears because those ear cups are _shallow._


----------



## kman1211

chicolom said:


> The K240 are comfortable to you??
> 
> You must have tiny ears because those ear cups are _shallow._


 
  
 Yes, very, the first few weeks or month their comfort is meh, but after that they are very comfy, I can wear them all day with no issues, they only bother me when it's too warm inside. K240s with DT 880/990 pads is the most comfortable headphone I have ever worn, the pads ruin the sound though by making them a harsh and bassless mess. I find the Q701, K702 Annies, and K601 incredibly comfortable too, in fact I haven't worn an AKG that wasn't a 9 or 10 in comfort to me.
  
 Actually my ears are big.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I said to hell with it and stretched the PX100-II's headband out. I'll see how it fares in the next few days. I also swapped out the pads for the Koss pads. It's less abrasive (a little softer), though for right NOW I can't say how it's affected the SQ. It seems a bit warmer and more bassy (which I don't want)... so I dunno. I'll have to swap back to make certain I'm just not hearing things.

I really wanna keep the PX100-II so I figured I'd do whatever I can to make them more comfy. Time will tell. They deserve the chance. I do like their sound more than the KSC35, which I didn't think was gonna happen.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> They deserve the chance. I do like their sound more than the KSC35, which I didn't think was gonna happen.


 
  
  
 I like the soundstage better on the Koss, but I like the less grainy and fuller sound on the PX100.  So it's sort of a give and take for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree. I do like a few things on the KSC35 more. The balance and airiness is definitely better on the Koss. The PX100-II is a bit heavier on the bass than I ultimately prefer, and I do miss the airiness on the Koss, but I like the fullness and richness of the PX100-II more than enough to choose it over the Koss.

Hmm, if only I could transplant the PX100-II's drivers onto the KSC35 housing. That would be SO MUCH WIN.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So in a fit of absolute rage after over extending one of the arms, I broke the PX100, so looks like there won't be a review. Sorry to all those who were waiting on it. Now, it is NOT the PX100's problem or anything. I literally pressed my luck and lost, and then seriously destroyed the headphones in anger, so don't take it as a weakness in the PX100.

I knew I should've left it alone... 

I'll take it as a very expensive rental. 

I'm so mad at myself right now, I can't even believe it. I released all my pent up frustration on the poor PX100...


----------



## chicolom

Glad it wasn't a pair of TH900s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would never do something like that to an expensive pair of cans. Other than thise Z2 Turtle Beaches basically disintegrating as soon as I pulled them out of the box the very first time, I have never, ever broken a pair of headphones.


----------



## chicolom

...Like the X1s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you mean? The X1s were bent in a v shape as people mentioned to do for extra extension. I didn't over bend them. The pic I showed was a brief second. They didnt stay that way.


----------



## chicolom

Just teasing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I can't forget my first A40s... which for some strange reason after months of not using them, I pulled them out of their box to find them with the right cup separated from the headband. I'm beginning to wonder if one of my roommates at the time used them without me knowing and broke them. I hadn't touched them in like half a year, and they were in perfect condition when I put them away. I had quite a number of roommates back in those days since I lived in student housing, despite me not being a student..


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I can't forget my first A40s... which for some strange reason after months of not using them, I* pulled them out of their box to find them with the right cup separated from the headband*.


 
  
 I think I remember that happening to my A40s too, and it also happened to a friends pair.  I also had problems with the channels and mic cutting out on the cable.  Not a huge fan of the build quality on them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The newer A40s seemed fine enough though.

I would never bend or alter any headphones lent to me, just in case anyone is wondering. I took a risk because I'm the one who paid for it.

I'm so upset, I wanna relieve this stress buy blowing invisible cash on a pair of TH900s... which conveniently is now sold on Amazon (though in a 2-3 week wait time).


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah man. The LCD2, D7000, ESP950, SR407, etc, etc.... man do they sound amazing... but can't be worn for too long without just making me rage at their comfort.
> 
> Now with those pad covers you and that other person posted.... I would give the Denons another go...


 
  
 Pad covers, huh? Those might come in handy some day...
  
 As for comfort, if you can't stand Lambda-series Stax, never, ever try a Gamma/Alpha-series. The earpads are just too damn shallow to the point where my ears touch the inside plastic, and it gets very uncomfortable, VERY quickly, like a supra-aural set pretending to be circumaural with no comfort concessions for supra-aural wear.
  
 It sounds nice, yeah, but at least I can wear a Lambda for extended periods of time. (I guess I have a surprisingly high tolerance for pleather pads.)


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> Pad covers, huh? Those might come in handy some day...


 
  
  
 These things:
 http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1379719470&sr=8-3&keywords=headphone+cover
  
 I'm not sure if they will fit on the_ really big_ full sized headphones.  It's already somewhat of a tight fit on the X1.  You may be able to experiment and stretch them though, and since they come in a bag of 100 no problems if you ruin a bunch.
  
 I think they were probably designed for your cheaper more generic sized headphones.
  
  

 BTW, if anyone decides to get any of those pads or wants to go in on a bag, let me know because I wouldn't mind having some more to play around with.


----------



## mais14

Hey I need some advice. I've tried to switch over from a 5.1 gaming headset (Turtle Beach HPA's) to DH with quality headphones. I love the quality of sound but I am having problems with directional sound positioning where I just seem to be more than slightly off than ballpark with positioning ( I Don't expect exact) but people run out on me me alllllll the time and aren't even using DeadSilence (CODMW3). I watch killcams and I'm like wow I didn't hear him?  I go back to my 5.1 headset and i'm dropping MOABS. I've had a run with the ad700s, Sennheiser 595, and TurtleBeach X11's. Is DH not for me? I've played exclusively with it for more than a month now.
  
 What I have  Fiio E17, Sennheiser 595s, TurtleBeach X11's,TB DSS mixamp, HPA2, Tritton 5.1 Pro Decoder. I have more sense of positioning with X11's and can competitively compete more while playing with them than with my 595s or from what I remember with my ad700's which I sold after giving up on DH once before. I also can pinpoint people more accurately with my Tritton 5.1 Decoder receiving Stereo in Dolby Pro Logic mode with ANY HEADPHONES than a DSS + 595s.
  
 Any advice would be appreciated because somethings off and I rate (competitively) my 5.1 hpa2s a 10, X11's with DSS a 8.5, Dolby Prologic Stereo a 9, and 595/ad700 would be a 7. FOR ME competetitively. e17 has bass/treble/gain settings what would i set those to for best soundwhoring????
  
 I've also gamed with the e17 and just dss alone with same results. Has anyone heard of someone like me or have suggestions. I free4all a lot and I can decently soundwhore with all the options but let me join a TD match and Its just too much audio going off for me to hear footsteps 10 feet in front of me.


----------



## guily6669

Why do people say *creative recon 3D external* doesn't natively decode Dolby surround????
  
 On their site they say this:
  


> Dolby Digital decoder
> Transform any Dolby Digital 5.1 source into high fidelity immersive surround sound for Xbox 360, Playstation 3, PC, or Mac with the *built-in hardware decoder.*


 



> *Dolby Digital Live*: Decoding only


 
  
*So does it decode dolby digital or not???*
  
  
  
*Also my questions for Creative Recon 3D USB are:*
  
  
 1º- Can sound balance be adjusted for gaming consoles (Xbox360). I hear less from my right ear, so I wanted to decrease left ear volume (can I do that, and can it stay the way I want for ever, so that I don't have to change settings every time I play Xbox360).
  
 2º- New gaming consoles are coming out (PS4\\Xbox One). Do you think this card will still be up to date for the new gaming consoles sound cards (I ask this in case some new technology, or new type of surround technology comes in them that will make this card useless...).
  
 3º- I have Logitech Z5500. How would Creative Recon 3D surround and sound quality output be compared to the Z5500 (both on HEADPHONE ONLY)?
  
 4º- For a crappy headphone like Siberia V2 can the Recon3D go loud enough on very low output games like GTA V (it sends a lot lower volume than most games).
  
 5º- And about BASS, the Siberia V2 for me are very LOW BASS, can I increase a lot the bass with Recon3D for Xbox360 and will it be able to produce enough bass on max: "16-30 Ω" headphones.
  
  
  
 ps: I would be very grateful if anyone could help me out!!
*Keep Cool*


----------



## burritoboy9984

mais14 said:


> Hey I need some advice. I've tried to switch over from a 5.1 gaming headset (Turtle Beach HPA's) to DH with quality headphones. I love the quality of sound but I am having problems with directional sound positioning where I just seem to be more than slightly off than ballpark with positioning ( I Don't expect exact) but people run out on me me alllllll the time and aren't even using DeadSilence (CODMW3). I watch killcams and I'm like wow I didn't hear him?  I go back to my 5.1 headset and i'm dropping MOABS. I've had a run with the ad700s, Sennheiser 595, and TurtleBeach X11's. Is DH not for me? I've played exclusively with it for more than a month now.
> 
> What I have  Fiio E17, Sennheiser 595s, TurtleBeach X11's,TB DSS mixamp, HPA2, Tritton 5.1 Pro Decoder. I have more sense of positioning with X11's and can competitively compete more while playing with them than with my 595s or from what I remember with my ad700's which I sold after giving up on DH once before. *I also can pinpoint people more accurately with my Tritton 5.1 Decoder receiving Stereo in Dolby Pro Logic mode with ANY HEADPHONES than a DSS + 595s*.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The bold part certainly makes me think something isn't connected or setup correctly. Perhaps you have a defective DSS? IMO, the positioning IS slightly better with 4 speaker headphones, but you can't beat the comfort and SQ of combining a DH device with a decent pair of headphones.
  
 -Erik


----------



## Evshrug

Oil guilty, I got your PM.
I'll just add to my reply the few things you didn't mention in your PM to me.

You can boost the bass, it's one of the THX settings (that can be stored for console use), I thought it did a fine job of filling out the AD700 (I believe in one of my posts I talked about my playthrough of Metro 2033 using Recon3D USB and AD700), you can even set the "crossover point" to target the bass boost to be very sub-bass oriented (which I loved).

I don't know too much about the Siberia headsets, but in the realm of SQ they send up an orange flag for me...

Also, make sure the audio in GTA V isn't turned down in the in-game settings...

If the new consoles have optical audio outs (HIGHLY likely), then you can use current gen devices for surround game audio, but the Xbox One for one has already announced a new method for chat audio (I hated Kinect mics on the 360, maybe they'll have improved that for the Xbox One and make that a viable option). -----



Mad,
Hi.


----------



## NamelessPFG

guily6669 said:


> Why do people say *creative recon 3D external* doesn't natively decode Dolby surround????
> 
> On their site they say this:
> 
> ...


 
  
 All right, time to put an end to this:
  
 -*The Recon3D USB can decode Dolby Digital through its S/PDIF input, and apply THX TSP Surround accordingly.*
  
 What else...
  
 -It cannot decode DTS or Dolby Pro Logic II.
 -It cannot use S/PDIF as a recording input on a PC. Likewise, the analog aux-in is useless in X360 and PS3 mode.
 -There is no balance control outside of PC use.
 -Given Astro's statements on Mixamp compatibility with the upcoming consoles, I would not expect the Xbox One to be compatible, but the PS4 will likely work just fine in PS3 mode.
 -I can't comment on anything regarding the Logitech Z5500 or Steelseries Siberia V2.
 -There is a bass boost as part of the THX TSP software suite, but it only seems to be adjustable through a PC with the drivers installed.


----------



## guily6669

Humm, but I think Xbox360 only uses Dolby digital 5.1 and no DTS or anything else, so I think it will be ok. (Pro logic 2 I tried with Z5500 and it sucks, it's stereo digital out on the X360).
  
 I think that the xbox one also has Dolby digital Optic out (it say Dolby Digital 7.1, but it will probably still work like X360 Dolby digital 5.1, don't know for sure).
  
  
 I also heard we can install custom profiles on the sound card. Isn't there really a way to change R\L balance?? (like editing some .ini???).
  
 Or hacking it. Isn't there any way to hex edit it's internal saved settings? (if anyone know please report).
  
  
  
 The Astros and other's of it's kind probably have a lot better sound quality on the output, but I don't think any of them can offer what creative offers since they say we can use the pc settings on the gaming consoles, which is full customization on the surround and not just a few buttons that change "something" (I use crystalizer+EQ a lot on the PC).
  
 ps: I also don't need to record anything with it or digital out (I have a Auzentech X-fi Forte 7.1 PCIE if I would like any of that...).
*Keep Cool*


----------



## PurpleAngel

mais14 said:


> Hey I need some advice. I've tried to switch over from a 5.1 gaming headset (Turtle Beach HPA's) to DH with quality headphones. I love the quality of sound but I am having problems with directional sound positioning where I just seem to be more than slightly off than ballpark with positioning ( I Don't expect exact) but people run out on me me alllllll the time and aren't even using DeadSilence (CODMW3). I watch killcams and I'm like wow I didn't hear him?  I go back to my 5.1 headset and i'm dropping MOABS. I've had a run with the ad700s, Sennheiser 595, and TurtleBeach X11's. Is DH not for me? I've played exclusively with it for more than a month now.
> 
> What I have  Fiio E17, Sennheiser 595s, TurtleBeach X11's,TB DSS mixamp, HPA2, Tritton 5.1 Pro Decoder. I have more sense of positioning with X11's and can competitively compete more while playing with them than with my 595s or from what I remember with my ad700's which I sold after giving up on DH once before. I also can pinpoint people more accurately with my Tritton 5.1 Decoder receiving Stereo in Dolby Pro Logic mode with ANY HEADPHONES than a DSS + 595s.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm assuming you are gaming with a Win PC.
  
 Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, $27.
 Connect the DG to the E17 using optical.
 Plug HD595s into the E17.
 Leave all other audio stuff unplugged from PC.


----------



## mais14

xbox 360 .. positioning using cheap tb x11s with dss im happy with. but my 595s im just not getting the same positioning.. 595s are sounding good with music although I eish they had a little more bass


----------



## PurpleAngel

mais14 said:


> xbox 360 .. positioning using cheap TBS x11s with DSS I'm happy with. but my 595s I'm just not getting the same positioning.. 595s are sounding good with music although I eish they had a little more bass


 
 Guessing you will need to invest into an Astro mix-amp, use it's optical connection with xBox.
 Plug the HD595s straight into the Mix-amp.
  
 Use the Fiio E17 (optical) when your just looking to play music.


----------



## mais14

Thanks for the suggestions. I've been thinking about the Asus Xonar as my win7 pc is right next to my xbox360 but that would most likely interfere with it being an entertainment pc with netflix being watched constantly all day. Will the Xonar optical in and out while not being default sound option for the pc for it to be used xbox --> xonar --> e17 while onboard is set to default to hear computer audio??
  
 Yea SQ is amazing. Felt like Beyonce was in my living room. From what I remember when I had the astro mixamp a year back, I was using my Tritton AX pros Front speaker driver in spite of having a pair of ad700s because I could also get positioning hearing better with the Tritton AX pros than the ad700s. Yea thats right say it, he's a magnet for crapTy cans with DH. I'm starting to think its an open vs closed for me where I get better positioning closed. I'm guessing as the Tritton ax pros and TBx11's are inferior but closed and the 595s ad700s have better SQ but are open.


----------



## afonsoruivo

Hey guys, i dont know if the post is a little out of context, but do you guys think that as an all around use (Movies, games and music), the Sony´s MDRMA900 are better than the * *A40 - Astro ?
 i want to buy one of them but i am a little indecisive...


----------



## PurpleAngel

mais14 said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I've been thinking about the Asus Xonar as my Win7 PC is right next to my xbox360 but that would most likely interfere with it being an entertainment PC with Netflix being watched constantly all day. Will the Xonar optical in and out while not being default sound option for the PC for it to be used xBox --> Xonar --> E17 while on-board is set to default to hear computer audio??


 
 Did not know of any internal Xonar sound card with an optical input?
 Any sound card that has an optical input (Titanium non-HD) is usually only 2-channel.


----------



## Evshrug

Several sound cards have optical input, but due to licensing issues (recording copyright material) almost none decode Dolby Digital Live (5.1 surround audio) input. The Recon3D USB is the only exception I know about, and I think it's only possible because the PC side of the device cannot record Optical input.

Personally, I wouldn't want my PC and console consuming lots of power at the same time if I don't have to anyway, so I prefer the external Recon3D anyway, but I understand different people think differently.

*Afonsorulo*,
The answer should be obvious, if you read the guide or any posts dated around the time Mad last updated the guide.


----------



## AxelCloris

afonsoruivo said:


> Hey guys, i dont know if the post is a little out of context, but do you guys think that as an all around use (Movies, games and music), the Sony´s MDRMA900 are better than the * *A40 - Astro ?
> i want to buy one of them but i am a little indecisive...


 
  
 I wasn't a fan of what I heard with the A40 headphones. The mixamp portion is awesome, but the actual headset left a bit to be desired. MA900 can be considered end-game for many people. I'd check it out instead.


----------



## Evshrug

AxelC,
Limbo is awesome in a creepy death sorta way.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> AxelC,
> Limbo is awesome in a creepy death sorta way.


 
  
 I enjoyed it. I figured you'd get a some fun out of it. The tree spiders can get annoying, though.


----------



## mais14

just picked up a pair of koss ksc75s at kmart for 17 $  I think DH might finally be turning around for me.


----------



## chicolom

So, the HD650s have been gone a week now, but something else came in the mail the other day...
  

  
 Any guesses as to what it could be??
  
_(NO CHEATING by looking at my buyer feedback!)_


----------



## guily6669

evshrug said:


> Also, make sure the audio in GTA V isn't turned down in the in-game settings...
> 
> If the new consoles have optical audio outs (HIGHLY likely), then you can use current gen devices for surround game audio, but the Xbox One for one has already announced a new method for chat audio (I hated Kinect mics on the 360, maybe they'll have improved that for the Xbox One and make that a viable option).


 
  
 GTA V in-game options are at 100%, but the game is really very low output. I have a 2.1 speakers connected to the TV, and the speakers are always at 6\10 volume, and on games I usually play at 25\100 volume on the TV out for the speakers.
  
 On GTA V I probably have to go up to like 40\100 to match the 25\100 and probably the subwoofer even is still quiter than most other games
  
  
 About Xbox one, it brings a optic out (they say it's dolby digital 7.1). I don't care for the mic either, just want 3D surround sound on gaming.
  
  Quote:


evshrug said:


> Several sound cards have optical input, but due to licensing issues (recording copyright material) almost none decode Dolby Digital Live (5.1 surround audio) input...
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't want my PC and console consuming lots of power at the same time if I don't have to anyway, so I prefer the external Recon3D anyway, but I understand different people think differently...


 
 Hell yeah, I think my Auzentech X-fi Forte 7.1 PCIE also doesn't decode dolby live trough optical (have the sound card since 2011 or so and never used it... My crap GTX 570 3 slots huge pile of crap hides all the pcie and the one left will stop the air flow a lot, because it gets to close to the GPU fans).
  
  
 And there goes the times I left the PC 24\7 (almost every power fail = burned component). Now I use a laptop in full power saving conditions for 24\7 to upload, make servers...
  
  
 ps thanks for the answers regarding creative Recon 3D (even though I still have the other questions). I also sent a message to creative regarding the balance (let's see if they will even answer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
*Keep Cool*


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> So, the HD650s have been gone a week now, but something else came in the mail the other day...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Waiting for the k712pro review! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 It might be my next cans or the HD650.


----------



## Interlopr

Hi all, Long time lurker, First time poster!
  
 I'm struggling to find a pair of cans to completely immerse me in my games (Mainly BF3 and Soon BF4 On PC)
  
 I'm not one for competitive playing, I just like to play games and enjoy my self and want to feel like "I'm there"
  
 I fell for the whole hype of the ATH AD700's and while they're amazing cans, They're just not for me.
  
 Any insight on what I should be looking at? 
  
 Budget is around $350ish for some cans and an DAC/AMP if needed!


----------



## ethan7000

chicolom said:


> So, the HD650s have been gone a week now, but something else came in the mail the other day...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Something beautiful


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> So, the HD650s have been gone a week now, but something else came in the mail the other day...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I cheated lol


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Waiting for the k712pro review!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Did you see my mini comparison between the K712 and HD650?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/3030#post_9819324
  
 If you love soundstage, I would go for the K712.  The strength of the HD650 is intimate mids.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I know this is getting semantic, but Dolby Digital Live is very specifically a real-time encoder for the AC-3/Dolby Digital codec.
  
 It's not a separate codec format from basic Dolby Digital or Dolby TrueHD, and yeah, Dolby Labs doesn't seem to take kindly to the thought of sound card manufacturers being able to just decode and record the signal through their S/PDIF inputs.
  
 Meanwhile, my computer's GTX 480 crapped out, leaving me without a current-gen-worthy gaming computer for the time being. Needless to say, I am quite irritated, especially when I was hoping it would be enough of a stopgap upgrade to last until next year, when I could hopefully afford to go all-out on a new computer...


----------



## pietcux

interlopr said:


> I'm struggling to find a pair of cans to completely immerse me in my games (Mainly BF3 and Soon BF4 On PC)
> 
> I'm not one for competitive playing, I just like to play games and enjoy my self and want to feel like "I'm there"


 
 If you are more into single player experience, then you must try BF BC2 if you haven't already. I got BF3 recently with the Humble Bundle. It is good as a single player, but not great in any way. BF BC2 is so much better, because the characters are so well done, the BF3 characters are pale in comparison. I played BFBC2 at least 7 times through. You might even also look at  COD Modern Warfare 1/2/3 single players have awesome characters and story lines.
 For cans and DAC/AMP, you might just read the intro of this thread. It tells you the complete story. For long gaming sessions I can recommend the AKG K7XX line. Very comfy.


----------



## chicolom

ethan7000 said:


> Something beautiful


 


change is good said:


> I cheated lol


----------



## pietcux

Nice can. Had the T70p for some time, but sold it to fund something else. You will probably end up the same.


----------



## chicolom

pietcux said:


> Nice can. Had the T70p for some time, but sold it to fund something else. You will probably end up the same.


 
  
 Well, that _is_ how Head-fi works isn't it?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Well, that _is_ how Head-fi works isn't it?


 
  
  
 First impressions?
  
 Will you be comparing them, thoroughly, with the K712 and X1?


----------



## PurpleAngel

interlopr said:


> Hi all, Long time lurker, First time poster!
> I'm struggling to find a pair of cans to completely immerse me in my games (Mainly BF3 and Soon BF4 On PC)
> I'm not one for competitive playing, I just like to play games and enjoy my self and want to feel like "I'm there"
> I fell for the whole hype of the ATH AD700's and while they're amazing cans, They're just not for me.
> ...


 
 I'm assuming you are using a Win PC for gaming?
  
 Sennheiser HD558 headphones, $131.26
 Sound Blaster Z sound card (SB1500), $94.99
 So, $226, plus and sales tax.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> First impressions?
> Will you be comparing them, thoroughly, with the K712 and X1?


 
  
  
 I'll have a little more on them later, but Yes - these will be getting a full review and comparison.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> Did you see my mini comparison between the K712 and HD650?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/3030#post_9819324
> 
> If you love soundstage, I would go for the K712.  The strength of the HD650 is intimate mids.


 
 Yes, I have read that. Now, I'm leaning towards the k712, since I'm also a soundstage type. I don't like cramped sound.  hoping next year the pricing in HK will be acceptable. The annie now is still 600+ usd in my usual store 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm also planning to buy the Aune T1 to replace the e17 and preparing for my next cans.
 If it got more bass than 650, then the k712 is perfect. The 650's bass is good for me, but craving bit more.
 BTW, congrats for the T90. Waiting for full review and of the k712 and T90, and hoping for comparison with the X1


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> BTW, congrats for the T90.
> 
> Waiting for full review and of the k712 and T90, and hoping for comparison with the X1


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 BTW there are comparisons between the Anniversary and X1 in my X1 review, and that should be close enough to give you some idea of how the K712 would sound in comparison to the X1.  The K712 will be slightly smoother and slightly open sounding than the Anniversary.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> BTW, congrats for the T90. Waiting for full review and of the k712 and T90, and hoping for comparison with the X1


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 BTW there are comparisons between the Anniversary and X1 in my X1 review, and that should be close enough to give you some idea of how the K712 would sound in comparison to the X1.  The K712 will be slightly smoother and slightly more open sounding than the Anniversary.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> Thanks.
> 
> BTW there are comparisons between the Anniversary and X1 in my X1 review, and that should be close enough to give you some idea of how the K712 would sound in comparison to the X1.  The K712 will be slightly smoother and slightly open sounding than the Anniversary.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/670318/philips-fidelio-x1-review-comparison


 
 How is the bass for the 712 compared to the annie? Imo Annie's bass qty is ok for me, but wishing it got a little bit more, just like the hd650.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> How is the bass for the 712 compared to the annie? Imo Annie's bass qty is ok for me, but wishing it got a little bit more, just like the hd650.


 
  
 K712 has slightly more than the Anniversary.  I thought both had more than the HD650 though.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> K712 has slightly more than the Anniversary.  I thought both had more than the HD650 though.


 
 Good for me then... Its might be my next one, if Philips not releasing better X2


----------



## Interlopr

pietcux said:


> If you are more into single player experience, then you must try BF BC2 if you haven't already. I got BF3 recently with the Humble Bundle. It is good as a single player, but not great in any way. BF BC2 is so much better, because the characters are so well done, the BF3 characters are pale in comparison. I played BFBC2 at least 7 times through. You might even also look at  COD Modern Warfare 1/2/3 single players have awesome characters and story lines.
> For cans and DAC/AMP, you might just read the intro of this thread. It tells you the complete story. For long gaming sessions I can recommend the AKG K7XX line. Very comfy.


 
 Not really that much into single player these days anymore, I mainly play multiplayer, But I don't need some cans that are going to tell me there is something 3 meters to the right of me. I'm wanting something that will simply let me enjoy my game more, The ATH-AD700's didn't do that for me, Basically I'm trying to find something that sounds similar to the AD700's but with some "boom" to them. I've heard that these http://www.noisymotel.com/product.asp?ProductID=333 would provide that, Does anyone else have any insight on these?


purpleangel said:


> I'm assuming you are using a Win PC for gaming?
> 
> Sennheiser HD558 headphones, $131.26
> Sound Blaster Z sound card (SB1500), $94.99
> So, $226, plus and sales tax.


 
  
 That is correct, I currently already own the Asus XONAR Essence STX sound card, So am strictly after a pair of cans at this moment, The 558's in my country how ever are not that cheap, Ranging from $200 - $300
  
 The site I'd like to buy of would be http://www.noisymotel.com/default.asp
  
 Or anywhere else in Australia that I can find something decently priced.
  
 EDIT: Simply Put, I want a headphone that is Competitive for online FPS and at the same time being a very fun headphone to listen to (Booming Sound)


----------



## calpis

Bought the Windwaker Wii U bundle. Time to try out DH on that bish.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait, Wii U doesn't have Dolby Digital for games. How are you gonna get DH out of it? 

Oh... wait, I forget if receivers convert LPCM to DH...

Chico... that's a surprising choice, considering all the hate the T90 gets for it's peaky treble. I guess it will be quite the contrast to the K712. Lemme know how it goes. I may beg you to let me do a review for it. I don't mind treble jumps as much as others do, though I won't buy headphones with large treble peaks anymore.

Personally thought you'd hold out for the HD800, or went for an HE-500 or something.

The MA900 made me become interested in spacious soundstages again. I really wanna try the HD800.


----------



## PurpleAngel

interlopr said:


> Not really that much into single player these days anymore, I mainly play multiplayer, But I don't need some cans that are going to tell me there is something 3 meters to the right of me. I'm wanting something that will simply let me enjoy my game more, The ATH-AD700's didn't do that for me, Basically I'm trying to find something that sounds similar to the AD700's but with some "boom" to them. I've heard that these http://www.noisymotel.com/product.asp?ProductID=333 would provide that, Does anyone else have any insight on these?
> 
> That is correct, I currently already own the Asus XONAR Essence STX sound card, So am strictly after a pair of cans at this moment, The 558's in my country how ever are not that cheap, Ranging from $200 - $300
> 
> ...


 
 A lot of headphones on that site (Noisy Motel) that I know zero about.
 But two you might look into, the Sound Magic HP100 and the Fischer Audio FA-011.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The T90 sibilance put me off in the end. For gaming though they image better than all the AKGs and their clarity is very welcome. Beyer is hard to beat in terms of imaging. 
  
 I went for an ugly green Q701 loaner over the weekend because I didn't dare opening the Annies (got them for much cheaper than the regular price here) to be dissapointed, and being a year-long Ex-K701 owner I surely notice improvements, though the imaging is basically the same (tonality wise of course different as in a bit smaller, less air) with its very oval shape and not much depth. And then there's still the treble grain (not a problem with games imo) But then I am used to the HD 800 and a comparison is probably not fair. For the Mixamp it's more good enough, actually "too good" but imaging with T90 and T1 is definitely better to me, especially with the phantom center. Kinda sad though that a flagship starts to have the "right" tonality (to me) for a Beyer, with the exception of the DT770 LE AE.
  
 Of course I can't fully judge on the Annies imaging but I strongly doubt it's a huge improvement. On the other hand it looks nice...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Annie won't have the same detail retrieval due to the obvious glossing over and smoothing, for less fatigue and more warmth over the Q701. If you bought the ANnie for detail-whoring, you're making a mistake. The Annie is basically for those that found the other 70x too lean or lacking in bass. More an enjoyable experience, and more of an all rounder, rather than more specialized and situational .

Imaging is always gonna be better for detail oriented headphones. So the Q701 will be better than the Annie for imaging. But I still found the ANnie to be a beast for gaming on all fronts.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Chico... that's a surprising choice, considering all the hate the T90 gets for it's peaky treble. I guess it will be quite the contrast to the K712. Lemme know how it goes. I may beg you to let me do a review for it. I don't mind treble jumps as much as others do, though I won't buy headphones with large treble peaks anymore.
> 
> Personally thought you'd hold out for the HD800, or went for an HE-500 or something.


 
  
  
 HD800 is the eventual goal, and me getting one is pretty much inevitable.  But I can't afford one yet so I wanted to try something else in the mean time.  I thought about trying the HE500, but I'm pretty sure I need more soundstage than it can give me.  I'm also not a huge fan of Hifiman's comfort (mainly weight).
  
  
 The thing about the T90's treble is simply that it's forward.  It's not even a treble spike, it's just broadly elevated over the rest of the frequencies (aka, _forward_)._  _With that said, I don't hear any sibilance or "zinginiess" being produced by the T90.  The actual treble _quality _is some of the best I've heard in a headphone.  It's clean, detailed, and very resolving.  It makes the X1 and K712 sound blurry and grainy.
  
 IMO the potential issue is not the treble _quality_ but the _quantity.  _


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> But then I am used to the HD 800 and a comparison is probably not fair. For the Mixamp it's more good enough, actually "too good" but imaging with T90 and T1 is definitely better to me, especially with the phantom center.


 
  
  
 How would you describe the HD800 in comparison to the T90?


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> The Annie won't have the same detail retrieval due to the obvious glossing over and smoothing, for less fatigue and more warmth over the Q701. If you bought the ANnie for detail-whoring, you're making a mistake. The Annie is basically for those that found the other 70x too lean or lacking in bass. More an enjoyable experience, and more of an all rounder, rather than more specialized and situational .
> 
> Imaging is always gonna be better for detail oriented headphones. So the Q701 will be better than the Annie for imaging. But I still found the ANnie to be a beast for gaming on all fronts.


 
  
 No, I intended a balanced mixamp only setup that is easier to run than a HD 800 or T1, + cheaper. I expect a better imaging space than a Q701 or K701 as in less oval, more depth but I admit being too overzealous since the cups of the series seem to not have changed, only the pads did. Tonality wise the path is right, the imaging I fear is the same shape.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I think you can expect more of the same from the Annie, unfortunately.

Chico, stop buying in between what you have and the HD800 already! 

X1, K712, T90 = near HD800.


----------



## calpis

Seriously, we all just need to each get an "End Game" headphone and swap between us.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can someone swap my end game MA900 for their SR009?


----------



## superbart

Hello.
  
 I have a question about Tritton AX720 headset. I have possibility to buy this headset with decoder box for good price but I would like to use it with my CAL and separate microphone. And here is my question - is it possible to connect any headphone with 3.5 mm jack directly to inline mixer which is on the cord ?? Is it possible to connect separate microphone in the same way? I would like to use it with my PS3 to have dolby headphone. I'm using now Turtle Beach P11 headset and before reading this guide I was sure it works great  Now I know it is not  So I bought CAL but lack of microphone output in PS3 is pain in the ass. If I will get much more better sound in Astro Mixamp ( 5.8 or 2013 version ) I will try to wait, save money and buy it instead of this Tritton. Thanks in advance for answer.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Chico, stop buying in between what you have and the HD800 already!


 
  
  
 I know.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
  
 I think T90 will be my last stop though.  I read very mixed opinions on it, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt.  I'm glad I tried it too, because it's pretty darn impressive in some areas like resolution, airiness, soundstage, and separation.  It beats the K712 in those areas.  I want to give it a full review since I couldn't find all that much substantial info out there on it, other than some random impressions and a couple short vague-ish reviews.
  
  
 I'm gunning for the HD800 though.  The T90s have given me a taste of that higher level of detail, and it can sometimes be tough to go back to the blurrier grainier sound of X1 and K712, as much as I love them.  For better or worse, the only way from here is is forward.  The only sad thing is I will most likely have to sell some cans to reach the HD800.  So I may have a tough decision to make.  Of course, the HD800 might make most of them redundant, but I'm thinking it would be nice to have one "fun" (or at least warmer and bassier) can around to compliment the HD800s more neutral approach.  Not sure which one though...
  
 Ideally I could get them all in the same room together and compare them first, which would mean either an Ohio meet or maybe asking to get a loaner HD800 from someone in Ohio for a few days...


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> Can someone swap my end game MA900 for their SR009?


 
  
 That's the spirit!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, how is the "bases" on the T90? I was always wondering how the lows held up. Compare it to the Ex Juan, plz.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Can someone swap my end game MA900 for their SR009?


 
  
 Speaking of the SR009, whenever the next Ohio meet happens there will be at least one if not TWO SR009s there!
  
 I'm almost afraid to listen to it though, as I don't want to hear that level of headphone and then sadly remember the pricetag it comes with...
 ...BUT, I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to hear them either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As amazing as high end is (and it IS amazing), mid-fi is still what I consider the sweet spot. I loved the ESP950, D7000, LCD2, but I can enjoy the X1, Annies, HE4, HE400, HD650, etc almost just as much.

Hell, I went backwards, and I'm super happy with the MA900. Now, I can enjoy sound... and probably save up for something high end in the far future. Unless, of course, the _HE-450_ comes out.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Chico, how is the "bases" on the T90? I was always wondering how the lows held up. Compare it to the Ex Juan, plz.


 
  
  
 I still need to do some more testing on it, but I'd say it's somewhere in-between the Q701 and Anniversary in quantity.  Extensions pretty good, so it might be a case of the Anniversary having more mid bass but the T90 catching up a little near the sub-bass.  Quality however is better than both with the T90.  Better texture and variety (not one-notey) and quicker speed.  Not Planar levels, but good for a dynamic.


----------



## wmf

pervysage said:


> Welp, ordered my first ever "flagship" headphone. The Fostex TH900.
> 
> Can't wait to see how they perform with my music and games.


 
  
  
 TH900 with games ....  they would OWN..


----------



## wmf

mad lust envy said:


> As amazing as high end is (and it IS amazing), mid-fi is still what I consider the sweet spot. I loved the ESP950, D7000, LCD2, but I can enjoy the X1, Annies, HE4, HE400, HD650, etc almost just as much.
> 
> Hell, I went backwards, and I'm super happy with the MA900. Now, I can enjoy sound... and probably save up for something high end in the far future. Unless, of course, the _HE-450_ comes out.


 
  
  
 im waiting to try a HE-500 with games ....  with the right amplification/and source that would sure rock the foundations  ......
  
 must try ....


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> How would you describe the HD800 in comparison to the T90?


 
  
  
 T90 could run from a mobile player though (at least better), that's all. It's cheaper as well. Other than that there's no comparison. To make it short by just pointing out the big T90 weakness that are cold, slightly less natural mids, zingy treble. The HD 800 has none of it. Mids are outstanding. They don't measure well for no reason.
  
 I think many people are confused with the sennheiser highs and probably think about Ultrasone, Beyer highs or maybe even Grado. HD 800 highs are different by far and don't hit the "uhhh, this is so bright" nerve like any of the others that make you notice it on the first time you put them on your head (which supposedly goes away after burin but really never does). 
 Many recordings do have sibiliance already and I have plenty that don't and aren't any type of "studio master" either and I listen to them
 via the D2 which is very revealing and not smooth like the V200. 
  
 I don't have any problem with it. The only thing that'll create "problems" with the HD 800 are bad recordings like many metal genres, ultra compressed music like ****bull and anything with sibilance (where the T90, mid table Ultrasones would have already killed you). My Klein + Hummels monitors react the same so it's always the case for real detailed gear. 
  
 The Soundstage is also creating many myths and misunderstandings, mostly from people that never heard them. Just because it's huge and wide, it's not very thin and lifeless (+bright). Sure it has less pressure and impact than a Signature DJ (which is closed, bass pronounced) but the HD 800 has excellent texture down from the subbass to the highest levels still with ability for punch and pressure that adds to music and games, just not the same like a TH-900 but not far from it and definitely not like a K701 or Q701.
 It just doesn't add extra bass like the Fostex or move the same air than a planar. It bests them all in detail, imaging (where no other headphone matches in my experience, no SR-009 experience though) and effortless separation. There's no smear, no lost detail retrievement, no matter the complexity of the music. This is what makes them so amazing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

wmf said:


> im waiting to try a HE-500 with games ....  with the right amplification/and source that would sure rock the foundations  ......
> 
> must try ....


 
  
 I didn't like any planar at all with gaming mostly due to their imaging. When I compared T90 with HE-500 for gaming the latter had no chance. Tonality is good for gaming, yes, like the LCD-2s bass but imaging leaves a lot to be desired. Purely on the creation of a coherent space with width, depth, less on the sheer size as some more closed in headphones can still rock for gaming like the Ultrasone Signatures.


----------



## chicolom

Hnnnngg!!

Sounds perfect.

Okay I'll try and stay focused and keep on the path towards them.

Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


>



OOOH, pretty.



chicolom said:


> I know.
> 
> I think T90 will be my last stop though.  I read very mixed opinions on it, but I wanted to give it the benefit of the doubt.  I'm glad I tried it too, because it's pretty darn impressive in some areas like resolution, airiness, soundstage, and separation.  It beats the K712 in those areas.  I want to give it a full review since I couldn't find all that much substantial info out there on it, other than some random impressions and a couple short vague-ish reviews.
> 
> ...





chicolom said:


> Speaking of the SR009, whenever the next Ohio meet happens there will be at least one if not TWO SR009s there!
> 
> I'm almost afraid to listen to it though, as I don't want to hear that level of headphone and then sadly remember the pricetag it comes with...
> ...BUT, I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to hear them either.  :evil:



Well, your love for the TR90 seems to have been brief, lol! The HD800 has always seemed ultimate, so the sidestep to the Beyer segment strange at first, but then I can relate with my curiosity in the DT880, especially after the "Battle of the Flagships" extended review. Only thing, I love musical mids, and I have no idea about the "battle" author's tastes besides that one review. Maybe I'm just jealous cuz I don't have the money or circumstances he does to hear such rare headphones at such a young age, but I'm biased not to accept his opinions out of hand, though I do value the data he provided.

I'm also with Mad, so far my main clear increases in enjoyment of the K712 are not due to sound... Mid-Fi is where the value is at, I can appreciate the difference between the K712 and what's come before but I already was loving music with the Q701. The music seems retuned, but I still love the music, and now I can appreciate increased headband comfort and a really convenient cable. Even the tube amp is a little superfluous: it tamed some harshness and added a little magic, but if it didn't improve the realism of virtual surround I wouldn't even bother plugging it in. What if really good, revealing audio caused me NOT to enjoy something recorded on a budget, or mixed by someone less than a master? Here's the main crux of climbing the audio mountain, as I see it: I've definitely improved my audio, wouldn't go back and can perceive a few ways forward, but am I really loving music *more* than my girlfriend who listens to broadway musicals and country via iPhone and Koss KSC75 (which I bought her, but she'd as happily use her torn up iBuds and new EarPods when her last pair of Koss broke) at every commuting opportunity, and dances while walking? We both are happy remembering a tune and humming along, both feel the music, I've just spent $500 to get where?

That elephant in the room being said, I do repeat that I wouldn't go back. My joy and love for music may have peaked long ago (probably while playing "Yesterday" and "The Pink Panther" during orchestra waaay back in elementary school, new experience), but with my new gear I find myself playing longer, choosing to grab my headphones instead of sleeping in on my days off (day off today, I'm awake at my girlfriend's, but now that she left for work I feel my stuff calling me back to my place), and I'm just as happy listening to music at night as I am playing a game. I didn't care about music as much and mostly played games back when I had the AD700, my music and movie (and game) collections have increased significantly since I got my Q701, so I concede the possibility that I _could_ be more addicted to audio if I tried more headphones. I'm not set in my ways yet. I have enough vacation time accrued that I could possibly go on a short road trip to Ohio 

Still, full review of the T90 would be great. My next "audio gear" purchase will be (I think) my first smartphone.


----------



## guily6669

The WORLD SUCKS. At least "my world" does 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
*Why There isn't a specialized store everywhere on the planet that would let us test every single sound card\headphones\speakers\amps...* (DAMN IT).
  
  
 Because I bought the Siberia V2 and they ain't anything amazing and were so damn expensive already. Bought the Turtle Beach X12 and it's the worst pile of crap I have ever heard (definitely worse than the 5€ first Chinese headset I ever bought which sounded a little like Siberia V2 a lot of years back, just had a little more bass and a little less clarity and a worse microphone, but not impressive quality difference for the price difference "5€ to ~80€").
*Keep Cool*


----------



## benbenkr

So... I don't know why this hasn't been posted up yet but Creative has announced their SoundBlaster Omni, the successor to the Recon3D USB.
  

  
http://asia.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-omni-surround-5-1
  
 And sadly, it doesn't support DTS decoding and has is not usable with consoles.


----------



## AxelCloris

SteamOS. I have one request, native DH processing in the OS. Please Valve. Do this one thing for us.


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> So... I don't know why this hasn't been posted up yet but Creative has announced their SoundBlaster Omni, the successor to the Recon3D USB.
> 
> And sadly, it doesn't support DTS decoding and has is not usable with consoles.


 
  
 Needs and optical IN.
  
 Bummer.


----------



## BSeldenrijk

Hello,
  
 I am new to this forum, although I've read alot in the past here. I used to be a PC Gamer and always appreciated good sound. I currently owe a Sennheiser HD595 with a Creative Soundblaster ZX (including the 600ohm amp). Recently I've started using my PS3 (GTA V Hell Yeah!). I really started enjoying it, so I've decided to get a mixamp and a DX mic 
  
 Anyways while looking for headphones I stumbled upon this thread quite quickly and I want to thank Mad Lust Envy and all the other contributers for this pearl! 
  
 P.S. Have you guys read about the new Asus Orion which will support multi platform? I have no experience with Asus headphones/sets but I can imagine it could be a decent/cheap headset.
http://rog.asus.com/262392013/sound-cards-and-headsets/asus-republic-of-gamers-introduces-orion-for-consoles-gaming-headset/


----------



## benbenkr

chicolom said:


> Needs and optical IN.
> 
> Bummer.


 
  
 Exactly, why the heck an optical OUT?! This could have been a very good device because I do like SBX Surround.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I'm also with Mad, so far my main clear increases in enjoyment of the K712 are not due to sound... Mid-Fi is where the value is at, I can appreciate the difference between the K712 and what's come before but I already was loving music with the Q701. The music seems retuned, but I still love the music, and now I can appreciate increased headband comfort and a really convenient cable. Even the tube amp is a little superfluous: it tamed some harshness and added a little magic, but if it didn't improve the realism of virtual surround I wouldn't even bother plugging it in. What if really good, revealing audio caused me NOT to enjoy something recorded on a budget, or mixed by someone less than a master?


 
  
 Mid-fi is the best value obviously, but I do listen enough that I can justify owning one hi-fi can and I know it will get used and appreciated.  
  
 Testing the T90 I was surprised that even some older recordings and stuff that I never thought of being perfectly recorded can _still_ sound better on the T90.  Like some soundtracks from the 90's and some 50's/60's jazz.  The T90 still extracts more detail from them that I didn't even think was there.  That makes me feel better about the HD800, knowing my music library can still work with it.  Now, if the recording is a hissy sibilant compressed sounding mess, than something like the T90 or HD800 isn't going to fix anything or due it any favors.
  
 So are you planning on keeping the K712 and Q701 both or something?  I thought you would sell the Q701 and then get some angled pads for the K712.  I don't think it's worth owning both of them as they're too similar once you mess with the pads.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Okay guys finally sold the e17 and dt990s 
All up i made about 270 aud (255 usd) 

Is the Fidelio x1s and 36 months warranty 
For 350 aud (330 usd) a good price? 
Or is that too high


----------



## xero404

seems a little higher than average. sent you a pm....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its going for around $290 atm here, and I haven't seen it go back down to the 250 range in awhile. So 330 is just a little more than what we're paying. I bougbt it for $300 myself, and it was still worth it.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Thanks  36 months warranty about average to? 


mad lust envy said:


> Its going for around $290 atm here, and I haven't seen it go back down to the 250 range in awhile. So 330 is just a little more than what we're paying. I bougbt it for $300 myself, and it was still worth it.


----------



## reddyxm

After going through your extensive Headphone Gaming Guide MadLustEnvy, I decided to go with the MA-900 which looks like a great overall headphone for its price and high comfort rating. I think I made a decent choice since you're using them also. I currently have the Grado SR-80s and they are very uncomfortable since I wear glasses.


----------



## ethan7000

mitchb2020 said:


> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Philips USA offers 12 months so...


----------



## Mitchb2020

ethan7000 said:


> Philips USA offers 12 months so...



Retailer replaces them


----------



## guily6669

benbenkr said:


> So... I don't know why this hasn't been posted up yet but Creative has announced their SoundBlaster Omni, the successor to the Recon3D USB.
> "PICTURE..."
> http://asia.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-omni-surround-5-1
> And sadly, it doesn't support DTS decoding and has is not usable with consoles.


 
 Then it's not a Recon3D successor... it's the total opposite to it...
  
 It kinda looks more like a successor  for the X-fi HD? (can't tell because I don't know the specs of that thing, creative site is not loading and I'm too lazy to search for it  ).
  
  
  
 Oh and BTW about my questions regarding creative recon 3D, creative respond the following:
  


> ```
> Thank you for contacting Creative. We apologize for the delay in getting back to you. With reference to your email, I understand that you wish to know of you can adjust the balance between left and right channels when using the Sound Blaster Recon3D USB with an Xbox360. Please note that the options to mute and adjust the balance of stereo source is only available when connected to the computer using the Sound Blaster Recon3D control panel. When using your game console, you may want to check the audio settings of your game console for this option. Regarding the support for upcoming gaming consoles like PS4 and Xbox One, we regret that as these products are not yet officially released in the market, we are unable to confirm if the Recon3D USB will be fully compatible with these products. If you have further questions, comments or concerns please include them in your reply. Thank you. Best Regards,
> ```


 
*Kepp Cool*


----------



## widdyjudas

I got my x1 for 296usd in Hk, but only got 12 months waranty.
 36 months waranty is a good deal for 330usd, considering that x1 pads is not user replaceable and questionable connector quality. The long waranty also helps higher re-sale value.


----------



## Mitchb2020

Whats a good sound card for the x1s 
SoundBlaster z?


----------



## chicolom

mitchb2020 said:


> Whats a good sound card for the x1s
> SoundBlaster z?


 
  
 Haven't you already asked this question?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/16575#post_9782152


----------



## Interlopr

purpleangel said:


> A lot of headphones on that site (Noisy Motel) that I know zero about.
> But two you might look into, the Sound Magic HP100 and the Fischer Audio FA-011.


 
  
 Hmm okay..
  
 I'm really struggling to find what I want..
  
 I've read countless threads on the internet and what makes it worse is I cannot go anywhere to try before I buy, So I'm pretty much relying on other's responses to what I'm chasing..
  
 I'll say it one more time just in case others missed it ..
  
 I'm after a FUN headphone that will immerse me in my game play (BF3 & GTA5 atm) I want good directional positioning as well as a nice kick to the bass for when there's explosions etc.
  
 I'm located in Australia so prices here are a little bit more then the US..
  
 HALP MEH!


----------



## PurpleAngel

mitchb2020 said:


> Whats a good sound card for the x1s
> Sound Blaster Z?


 
 The Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $95, seem to be the best option, for around $100.


----------



## widdyjudas

interlopr said:


> Hmm okay..
> 
> I'm really struggling to find what I want..
> 
> ...




I'm pretty sure that aussie got many headphone stores, just google it. Headphone stores in China and hk are rare, but I can still find it and tested many headphones.
I wished i can to go aussie and order unique melody ciem. Its very troublesome to order it from here, despite the factory is in China.
Chico, how is matrix m-stage amp? I got an offer for 180usd here and considering it besides aune t1 for 100usd.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Chico, how is matrix m-stage amp? I got an offer for 180usd here and considering it besides aune t1 for 100usd.


 
  
  
 It's a good amp, better than other amps I've owned.  I don't know how it compares to the T1 though.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> It's a good amp, better than other amps I've owned.  I don't know how it compares to the T1 though.


 
 Aune T1 is a small tube. I never used one before, so its just my curiosity...

  
 The matrix m-stage is very popular in here, and since I got a discount price, very tempted.
 Some review said the Aune can drive the HD800 and sounds good too, assuming it can properly drive the akg k712 well too.
 The problem is space. I don't have enough space on my table anymore, need To buy bigger table and spending more unnecessary money...


----------



## chicolom

The M-stage is a fairly _long_ amp, so I guess take that into account.


----------



## LB Felipe

chicolom said:


> Haha
> 
> Yes.  I've noticed that as well.  How can their ears take that much volume?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where is there you are?
  


demonfox said:


> Now through Sept. 15th, get $115 off the NEW K712 PRO with coupon code RAZORDOGK712
> 
> 
> Thanks,


 
  
 Thanks.
  


evshrug said:


> I am greatly anticipating the possibility, I asked Creative's social media team a question about using their products on a Mac and console, like an update to the Recon3D USB, and they hinted that there may be something to address that "trend that is clearly growing" and I might hear from them in the coming months. I don't think it's been long enough yet, not been quite a month yet since that email, but I am anticipating great things. In the meantime, I am re-acquiring a Recon3D USB and I intend to compare them someday.
> The fact that you aren't a native English speaker, yet you used the word "manifesting," makes you awesome in my view.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Am I awesome? Sorry but I don't think so. I just made a lot of use of the Google Translator. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 This what I'm writing here right now is, in much of, supported by it. Even so, thanks. I'm still not understanding whether that word was suitable. Whatever. It may be because both Portuguese and English make much use of Latin words. e.g. In Portuguese, we have the verb "manifestar". I think this is a cognate. Two languages ​​and the same word. It's funny, is not it? Once again, thank you so much for your reply. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 One point that makes me look more likely to the Sony than the AKG is the fact that the former is much easier to drive. Furthermore, there is the price point. Do you think it's a good idea to use the same headset for PC and console? If so, the MA900 has advantage because I intend to use it with a Sound Blaster Z series. As its amplification is enough good for the Sony but is not for AKG, and as it is not a good idea to use an external amp with SB-Z...
  
 A more question: Do you or anyone know whether NFL Madden for PS3 will be avaiable for streaming for PS4?


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> It's a good amp, better than other amps I've owned.  I don't know how it compares to the T1 though.


 
  
 If you ever want to borrow my T1 I could drive it up one day. Grab a bite at that BBQ place in town. I plan to bring it to the next meet, since I'll be going out of my way to make that one. A quick note, the amp is SS, the tube is only for the DAC and can only be used through USB. But for a cheap little amp (I got mine for just over $100) it can put out 1W.


----------



## mais14

Hey Envy do you know anyone who might be interested in a pair of HD595s and/or fiio e17 in the orlando area?


----------



## Change is Good

> Originally Posted by *LB Felipe* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> A more question: Do you or anyone know whether NFL Madden for PS3 will be avaiable for streaming for PS4?


 
  
 If you bought the game from PSN then yes you will be able to stream it on PS4, but will remain the PS3 version of the game. If I'm not mistaken you should be able to buy the digital PS4 copy for $10 when it becomes available since you already bought the PS3 version from PSN. EA has a list of current gen games that you can upgrade to the next gen for $10... I believe Madden is one of those games.


----------



## chicolom

lb felipe said:


> Where is there you are?


 
  
 Ohio?
  


axelcloris said:


> If you ever want to borrow my T1 I could drive it up one day. Grab a bite at that BBQ place in town. I plan to bring it to the next meet, since I'll be going out of my way to make that one. A quick note, the amp is SS, the tube is only for the DAC and can only be used through USB. But for a cheap little amp (I got mine for just over $100) it can put out 1W.


 
  
  
 Cool.  The T1 looks pretty cheap for an Amp and DAC.
  
 I'm not nearly as picky about amps as your typical head-fier, and I won't describe any lavish differences between one amp and another.  But I'll check it out at the next meet.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Cool.  The T1 looks pretty cheap for an Amp and DAC.
> 
> I'm not nearly as picky about amps as your typical head-fier, and I won't describe any lavish differences between one amp and another.  But I'll check it out at the next meet.


 
  
 Hopefully someone at the next meet will have an iCan so I can hear the different switches in action. *wink wink*


----------



## WickedChicken

Has anyone tried out he Turtle Beach XPSeven yet? More specifically have they tried the audio control unit with other headphones. If they make the audio controller and console adapter available as separate products it could very well be the best solution on the market. With dolby headphone chips costing less than $5 I find it hard to believe that no one has made a better attempt at a stand alone gaming headphone mixer.


----------



## widdyjudas

axelcloris said:


> If you ever want to borrow my T1 I could drive it up one day. Grab a bite at that BBQ place in town. I plan to bring it to the next meet, since I'll be going out of my way to make that one. A quick note, the amp is SS, the tube is only for the DAC and can only be used through USB. But for a cheap little amp (I got mine for just over $100) it can put out 1W.


 
 Can you please describe me the t1? How is the quality? I want to buy it in China for 110usd.
 I'm currently using the E17, it it a considerably upgrade?


----------



## AxelCloris

widdyjudas said:


> Can you please describe me the t1? How is the quality? I want to buy it in China for 110usd.


 
  
 The amp is pretty clean sounding. Doesn't color the music, does a good job of increasing separation a bit. It drives all the headphones I've had/have very well. The DAC sounds however you want it to sound, the tube definitely colors the music. I picked up the upgraded tube, not the stock version. I've been considering picking up different NOS tubes, but that's down the road for me. The one I got in the upgraded box sounds excellent to me. Compared to the DAC that's built into my Macbook, it adds a bit of warmth but not a huge amount. For gaming I don't use the DAC at all as I've been running the Recon3D to the T1 when I needed the amp. But currently my headset is the M-80 and I only use the T1 for music right now.


----------



## widdyjudas

axelcloris said:


> The amp is pretty clean sounding. Doesn't color the music, does a good job of increasing separation a bit. It drives all the headphones I've had/have very well. The DAC sounds however you want it to sound, the tube definitely colors the music. I picked up the upgraded tube, not the stock version. I've been considering picking up different NOS tubes, but that's down the road for me. The one I got in the upgraded box sounds excellent to me. Compared to the DAC that's built into my Macbook, it adds a bit of warmth but not a huge amount. For gaming I don't use the DAC at all as I've been running the Recon3D to the T1 when I needed the amp. But currently my headset is the M-80 and I only use the T1 for music right now.


 
 Thanks for the description, I will getting it soon. Since i don't have enough space left on my desk, I think the T1 is the most suitable one for me. I'm using it with the X1, hoping it will not add more bass qty, but I do need more separation. Gaming I will wait for more info if those DH devices can support ps4.
 Tubes, I think on this thread they described few good ones.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq
 At first I want to buy the Aune X1, but there are barely reviews for it and it seems the shop in china only has T1 stock.


----------



## burritoboy9984

wickedchicken said:


> Has anyone tried out he Turtle Beach XPSeven yet? More specifically have they tried the audio control unit with other headphones. If they make the audio controller and console adapter available as separate products it could very well be the best solution on the market. With dolby headphone chips costing less than $5 I find it hard to believe that no one has made a better attempt at a stand alone gaming headphone mixer.


 
  
 So glad you brought that up, I posted a couple of weeks ago trying to remember what the name of that device was. I would suggest waiting for the new DTS Headphone X products coming down the pipe end of this year supposedly.
  
 -Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my KSC75 and PX100 are on their way to wje to modify. I hope he gets it to work...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> So my KSC75 and PX100 are on their way to wje to modify. I hope he gets it to work...


 
  
 Modify?


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Modify?


 
  
Gentlemen, we can rebuild them. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic headphones. The KSC75/PX100 will be those headphones. Better than they were before. Better, stronger, faster.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, placing the PX100 drivers into the KSC75 housing. Initially, I was gonna ask to put them into the 35's housing, but I use my 35 daily, and didn't wanna gut them when there was a perfectly good pair of KSC75s laying around as a spare incase something happened to my 35. So now, if/when wje gets it to work, I'll be able to compare between the 35 and the Kossheiser KSCPX175.


----------



## Onyxius

My apologies, i'm new here and posted then saw the automated private message that i'm supposed to post in the help section so i moved the thread myself.   thanks
  
 here is the thread for those that may have already read what I posted here.   Thank you guys.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683210/need-some-headphone-help-suggestions-please


----------



## benbenkr

So AMD just announced their new line of graphic cards and... there's this one technology that is quite intriguing: TrueAudio.
  
 Basically what it does is that it allows developers to program audio through the GPU. Extracting multi-channel cues and applying DSPs over it, HRTF is also a possibility without the need of OpenAL or something similar since it is all handled on the GPU's driver.
  
 This also does mean that we could return to HRTF for PC games as developers don't have to worry about consumers having the proper soundcard and relying on Creative/Asus to provide proper driver support. The market for consumers having AMD GPUs are much, much higher than that of the soundcard market anyways.
  
 It's a fancy moniker for AMD's take on virtual surround, but I'm all up for it if we can get some nice HRTF mixing going on in future games. The audio layer is AstoundSound, available as a plugin for wwise and fmod, so developers shouldn't face much issues in getting it to work.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Funny thing is, I've been thinking about GPU-processed audio ever since GPGPU designs started becoming a reality about six years ago. I mean, if they can trace rays of light, how about tracing waves of sound like Aureal did in the late 1990s?
  
 However, if it's exclusive to ATI/AMD, that's going to be a problem. Vendor-specific graphics card tech rarely sees much adoption, like ATI's old TRUFORM tessellation tech back in the Radeon 8500 days. NVIDIA's PhysX is a strange exception, possibly because it can still run on the CPU, albeit inefficiently and at reduced detail.


----------



## Evshrug

AxelCloris,
Thank you for your posts, ze humor makes my day ^_^

Mad,
*KSCPX175* 

Benben,
Shows promise, more options seem to be popping up, so companies are at least recognizing the demand even if nobody has produced a optimized product yet.







chicolom said:


> Mid-fi is the best value obviously, but I do listen enough that I can justify owning one hi-fi can and I know it will get used and appreciated.
> 
> Testing the T90 I was surprised that even some older recordings and stuff that I never thought of being perfectly recorded can _still_ sound better on the T90.  Like some soundtracks from the 90's and some 50's/60's jazz.  The T90 still extracts more detail from them that I didn't even think was there.  That makes me feel better about the HD800, knowing my music library can still work with it.  Now, if the recording is a hissy sibilant compressed sounding mess, than something like the T90 or HD800 isn't going to fix anything or due it any favors.
> 
> So are you planning on keeping the K712 and Q701 both or something?  I thought you would sell the Q701 and then get some angled pads for the K712.  I don't think it's worth owning both of them as they're too similar once you mess with the pads.




I'm still trying to suss them out and compare. Haven't even used the Q701 since getting the K712 though, trying to give myself adjustment time. Haven't had the chance to swap pads yet, or rebias my tube amp for my fav tube (been listening to my K712's straight out of my iPod and Recon3D USB, tbh). And theeeen, the MA900 just arrived yesterday, so I gotta give time to that. I probably will let one go, but I can afford to wait a bit (probably the sale will fund my first smartphone).

I'm glad you like the T90! But... kinda sad that you don't think you'll keep it, like it could be an end-game contender like you felt with the Q701. I mean it's good you enjoy it, but I get the sense you're just trying it on your way to summit-fi.



lb felipe said:


> Where is there you are?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> ...



I'm comparing the Sony and MA900 right now. Well, not this second, starting work. Stay tuned.
Manifest fit the context of your sentence well enough, I was just surprised because it is the kind of word that people rarely use in conversation.

SoundBlaster Z will have enough power to drive the AKGs, and it's fine to hook up an external amp to it. No reason NOT to use the MA900 with both computer and console, I think it'll do fine. From my first impression of the headphones, the AKGs simply are better if you can afford them, but the MA900 doesn't embarrass itself and is pretty good for the price.


----------



## miceblue

miceblue said:


> Ugh, why did AKG have to make so many rehashes of the same thing? T_T
> 
> K 701
> K 702
> ...


 
 Oh hey.

  
 Yay, another re-hashed product. 
 That would be absolutely hilarious if it was just another K 701 and people claim it sounds 1000 times better.


----------



## calpis

kinda looks like a K601.


----------



## chicolom

miceblue said:


> Oh hey.
> 
> Yay, another re-hashed product.
> That would be absolutely hilarious if it was just another K 701 and people claim it sounds 1000 times better.


 
  
  
 It's a K*8*12.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/682453/akg-k812-professional-headphones-coming-soon


----------



## Evshrug

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I'm glad you like the T90! But... kinda sad that you don't think you'll keep it, like it could be an end-game contender like you felt with the Q701. I mean it's good you enjoy it, but I get the sense *you're just trying it on your way to summit-fi.*


 
  
 That's basically the idea.  I definitely like the T90 more than I was expecting too though.  It's an upgrade over the K712 for some genres like classical and jazz.  But I've got my eyes set on the HD800, and there's no room (or budget) for the T90 to stay around too.  The plan was for the T90 to hold me over in the meantime though.
  


evshrug said:


> Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!


 
  
  
 I wouldn't be concerned.  That won't be out for a while and it's rumored to cost about as much as a flagship headphone.  It's a complete unknown at this point, unlike the K712 which is solid (and essentially replaces your Q701 once you decide to sell it and optionally get angled pads 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnhcsRTNME&hd=1
  
 Lovely demo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K812... its about time they made a legitimate flagship...


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> K812... its about time they made a legitimate flagship...



The K1000 isn't legitimate enough for you?


----------



## Change is Good

namelesspfg said:


> The K1000 isn't legitimate enough for you?


 
  
  
 After decades... it's about time they made a new flagship...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> The K1000 isn't legitimate enough for you?




My bad. NEW flagship to compete with what's been out in the recent years.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> My bad. NEW flagship to compete with what's been out in the recent years.


 
  
 Just as Sennheiser needed to bring out the HD800 after discontinuing the Orpheus systems, huh? And speaking of which:
  


spritzer said:


> The first few times I heard the HD800 it was all off some opamp garbage and they sounded terrible.  Give them a good amp and they truly shine...
> Prior to the HD800 there wasn't a whole lot of choice out there.  Never liked the R10 all that much (too bloody colored), the HP1000 is a one trick pony and the comfort is horrible, HD600 is astounding for the price but a bit dull and that was it really.  A SR-Lambda or LNS more than holds its own against all of those.


 
  
 This kind of surprised me, really. The don of the Stax Mafia himself, actually giving praise to a dynamic driver headphone? Now I really have to try the HD800...but what constitutes a good amp for it, anyway?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Orpheus was never meant to be sold like a typical headphone. It was apparently a task given to the engineers to build the best sounding headphone in the world, not one meant to be consistently sold, etc.

FWIR, the K1000 doesn't stack up to the competition these days. Not only that, but it's been discontinued for ages. It's about time for AKG to step back into the game.


I've heard nothing but great things about the HD800 (if articulation and detail retieval are your aim), but I do hear that it has a peak at 6khz that keeps them from being true god level. Ironically, the same problem the K701 has...

I think I'd like to give the K701 another chance, as I'm in the mood for some highly detailed, airy headphones. the MA900's soundstage really brought me back to the AD700 days.

K701, SRH-1840, HD800, Alpha Dogs, Stax 764327864798749803249


----------



## pietcux

And the hunt goes on!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

You know all the AKGs, the lower ATs and a few others. You're more than familiar with this level. I think it's rather time to go for the HD 800 and the K812, at least with a loaner program.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I want to listen to some, not buy. My next purchase is gonna have to be something that stays with me, like a TH-900...


But I'm speaking of what ifs. Right now, I can't afford a damn thing.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I think I'd like to give the K701 another chance, as* I'm in the mood for some highly detailed, airy headphones*. the MA900's soundstage really brought me back to the AD700 days.


 


mad lust envy said:


> Well, I want to listen to some, not buy.


 
  
 When it comes time for me to move on from the T90s (which will be when I can spring for the HD800s) I can send you them before I sell them.  They have a whole lot of air, detail, and soundstage.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, Beyer is at the very top in soundstage and imaging. I wish the T90 would have less zingy highs and better mids. It would be a standard recommendation among the K7xx.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds good Chico. Been a while since I've heard a brighter/detail oriented headphone.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, Beyer is at the very top in soundstage and imaging. I wish the T90 would have *less zingy highs and better mids.*


 
  
 Which would be...HD800?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, the T90 is really no comparison....no chance at all. I had a longer post directed at you about it, maybe it went unnoticed under other discussions.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Well, the T90 is really no comparison....no chance at all. I had a longer post directed at you about it, maybe it went unnoticed under other discussions.


 
  
 No, I saw it.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/16980#post_9827449


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ah ok, it's definitely time for the HD 800 then. Which of the three are you planning to keep?
  
 Will you upgrade your DAC? (I wouldn't in the beginning)


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Ah ok, it's definitely time for the HD 800 then. Which of the three are you planning to keep?
> 
> Will you upgrade your DAC? (I wouldn't in the beginning)


 
  
  
 I would guess either the X1 or K712 (If I don't have to sell them ALL to afford it).  I don't suppose you've heard either?
  
 I think the K712 would have more overlap with the HD800 while the X1 would sound less like the HD800, with its more emphasized bass.  But I really like the K712.  :\


----------



## Fegefeuer

I posted some X1 gaming impressions here, sometime at the beginning of the year when the amazon.it offer started the craze. For the price I found it really good but the one-noty bass put me off in the end (+non-removable pads) and the highs while thankfull non-fatiguing aren't very detailed. It was 200€ though and that's still unbeatable imo.
  
 The green Q701 I had a few days ago brought me back to the K701 memories (which I had for more than a year). While the AKG Soundstage is wide, it's pretty oval with not much depth and phantom center is lacking/diffuse. So in in terms of "huge", yes, they will overlap. Personally I would get something closed or special like the Fostex to complement rather than something "similar". Maybe Alpha Dogs turn out to be pretty good. 
  
 Imo multiple headphones should complement each or contrast more.


----------



## raul219

I really enjoyed all the reviews. This has to be one of the most detailed group of headphone reviews in every price range available. Congrats. Now I'm about to purchase a set of headphones and I'm torn between the MA900s and the Fidelio X1s. I really like the price/performance ratio of the MA900 but The X1s seem to be much better built and I do have the money for them. It's just that I don't want to spend almost $100 more for a very little increase in quality (soundwise). I'm going to use the headphones mainly for gaming (more non competitive), movies and music. My sources would be my gaming PC with a SBZ sound card and an HTC One as my portable music player. What would you recommend?? Thanks


----------



## MattTCG

As much as I love the ma900, if you have the money I'd suggest that you go for the x1. The materials and build quality seem well worth the extra money IMO. The jury is still out on just how well the ma900 will hold up over the long run. You'd definitely want to be gentle with them. my 2c...


----------



## raul219

That's exactly what I was thinking. Even if the audio difference between the two may be very little and who knows if I would even prefer the MA900s, build quality is very important for me regarding electronics and gadgets. This is the reason I got the HTC One instead of the S4.


----------



## MattTCG

HTC One FTW. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I love mine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 seems no more fragile than the Creative Aurvana Live. My stepfather's CAL is still going strong after two years. Unless you're abusive to the MA900, I don't see an issue there.

The X1 is definitely one of the best built cans I've ever owned.

As for sound, they're quite different. If you want a bassy headphone, get the X1. It's that simple.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of smartphones...if only the Galaxy Note III had the HTC One's solid feeling...then again, I'd probably put it in a case anyway, at which point a unibody metal housing like the HTC One would be considerably less appreciable.
  
 As for the MA900, it seems to hold together where it counts. I've had much bulkier headphones that felt significantly "cheaper" in quality before. *cough*GE H-22, worst headphone ever*cough*Panasonic HTF600, had a driver blow on me*cough*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm in MA900 withdrawal... I feel it's been away longer than I've owned it. But the KSC35 has been treating me well...


----------



## MattTCG

I'm about to send mine off for recable. It will be a long wait.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Already? SPEND A FEW MOMENTS WITH IT....


----------



## MattTCG

I hate cables running all over the place. Might as well bite the bullet. 
  
 Signature updated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I hear you. What I do is wrap it a few times and use a velcro cable tie thingy that came with this one HDMI cable I bought recently.



The cable cost me like $5, lol.


----------



## raul219

I actually got a case on my One. It still feels premium since the weight is very well distributed along the phone's unibody contruction, like the metal overpowers all the internal components. Not like the Galaxy S3/S4. But well, returning to headphones...still undecided!! How bassy are the X1s?? I like some good bass but nothing overpowering. As long as it's not loose and uncontrolled am fine with bass


----------



## LB Felipe

evshrug said:


> I'm comparing the Sony and MA900 right now. Well, not this second, starting work. Stay tuned.
> Manifest fit the context of your sentence well enough, I was just surprised because it is the kind of word that people rarely use in conversation.
> 
> SoundBlaster Z will have enough power to drive the AKGs, and it's fine to hook up an external amp to it. No reason NOT to use the MA900 with both computer and console, I think it'll do fine. From my first impression of the headphones, the AKGs simply are better if you can afford them, but the MA900 doesn't embarrass itself and is pretty good for the price.


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 Please let me know when it'll be done.
  
 I like K712 PRO better than other, despite its price. The problem is that ZxR has a high floor noise (about 10 Ohms), which is not good for AKGs but that works fine with Sony. HEnce you might say "use an external amp", but I think weird to use double amplification. If it is to be so, then would X-Fi TiHD not be better?
  
 One more question: So can we say a good pair of headphones for console must be so good as for PC?
  
 OFFTOPIC: I only heard that word from Breaking Bad S05E01 at 37'35".


----------



## famibica

Mad Lusty, if you or any other friend can help me...
  
 What headset/headphone should i use?
  
 I play on xbox/ps3/pc and im looking for the perfect setup.
  
 I thought about buying an dt990pro with a zalman mic and later buy the amp from the tritton720 or the one frmo the astros.
  
 If i buy the tritton720 first, can i buy later the dt990pro and connect the mic and the headphone to the tritton amp?(i didnt find the connectors)
  
 1.And the tritton720 with the amp will sound better than the dt990pro alone?
  
 2.Should i buy the dt990pro first? or the tritton then the dt990pro?
  
 3.Can i connect the dt990pro to the consoles without the amp from tritton/astro?
  
 I cant get both at the same time, but i can buy one now and then another later.
  
 But i can try find and buy the tritton control box(the axpro one will work with all the 3-pc-xbox-ps3?) + cables + dt990pro + zalman mic but i have no idea how to link the dt990pro+zalman mic on the tritton control box, which cable should i use?
  
 Thanks!!!


----------



## NamelessPFG

lb felipe said:


> I like K712 PRO better than other, despite its price. The problem is that ZxR has a high floor noise (about 10 Ohms), which is not good for AKGs but that works fine with Sony. HEnce you might say "use an external amp", but I think weird to use double amplification. If it is to be so, then would X-Fi TiHD not be better?
> 
> One more question: So can we say a good pair of headphones for console must be so good as for PC?



First thing about "double-amping": EVERY analog output is amplified, even the line-outs. You're inherently doing so when connecting an amp via analog to any source.

I'd probably take the Titanium HD over the ZxR, but that's more for its superior support of 3D audio in older PC games and my preference for CMSS-3D Headphone.

This is a guide for reviewing headphones' compatibility with virtual surround; it applies to PCs and consoles alike.


----------



## Evshrug

lb felipe said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Please let me know when it'll be done.
> 
> ...


 
 Only a quick reply because I'm on a short break at work:
  
 Sony has a lower damping factor than the AKGs, so actually the AKG would handle the noise floor of an amp/dac more easily than the Sony. Even so, the 10 Ohms doesn't directly relate to noise floor... it's more like will the bass sound right and will the treble not be glaring.
 A good headphone will be a good headphone, no matter console, PC, music player, etc, as long as it's properly driven.
  
 So far getting used to MA900, wasn't too impressed with soundstage last night then realized my surround settings were wrong (35%, was that you Nameless or was I playing around?), so I have to re-evaluate.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad,
  
 James just released the specs for the E18. It looks like it won't be anywhere near as powerful as the E12... but bit more powerful than the E17.
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/628254/fiio-e18/220#post_9842995


----------



## Evshrug

Change,
It's probably because of the BN, you know, that ok amp that gets 100 hours per charge because it doesn't output much power? A lot of headphones just don't need as much as the E12 can give, some of the big boys in the mid-fi arena can really make use of it, but to sell to the most consumers they probably need a device offering more time than power. Especially in a portable. Still, even though the E12 is a niche product, my pre-production sample even more so, I still love it. Maybe irrationally at this point, lol, but somehow it did respond better with the K712 than my tube amp, which surprised the heck outta me.


----------



## Change is Good

Ah, I see. I'm interested in it, still, if I can get it to work with my Nexus 7 2013. Its sq could really benefit from a nice self powered DAC


----------



## AxelCloris

Personally out of the new devices that are supposed to be released over the next few months I'm most interested in the E19. Unfortunately there haven't been any official specs released. Just talk in the E18 thread about it being Fiio's flagship portable DAC/amp with an original estimate of December. But I don't think that'll be happening since the E18 was projected for July.


----------



## Change is Good

I've heard the E19 mentioned here and there... but that's it.


----------



## Evshrug

Only time I saw people type E19 was when they meant to say E18, and also by others who got excited by the people typing it by mistake. Gotta love it when a company announces a product, especially funny with a new flagship, and immediately (before said product is even released and available) people ask when the next big thing is coming out.


----------



## AxelCloris

James from Fiio has mentioned it, but not in great detail. Just a couple things here and there. I guess we won't know more until the official announcement, whenever that may be.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not being impressed by the MA900's soundstage, would make you certifiably insane. Yeah, better re-evaluate, since the MA900 has the largest soundstage, this side of AD700.


----------



## famibica

famibica said:


> Mad Lusty, if you or any other friend can help me...
> 
> What headset/headphone should i use?
> 
> ...


 
  
 any help here guys? =/


----------



## PurpleAngel

famibica said:


> What headset/headphone should i use?
> I play on xbox/ps3/pc and im looking for the perfect setup.
> I thought about buying an dt990pro with a zalman mic and later buy the amp from the tritton720 or the one frmo the astros.
> If i buy the tritton720 first, can i buy later the dt990pro and connect the mic and the headphone to the tritton amp?(i didnt find the connectors)
> ...


 
 If your PC's motherboard comes with DDL (Dolby Digital Live)
 then Get an Astro Mix-amp, plug the Astro into whatever your currently gaming with (PC or console), I believe the Astro can drive the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones decently.


----------



## famibica

purpleangel said:


> If your PC's motherboard comes with DDL (Dolby Digital Live)
> then Get an Astro Mix-amp, plug the Astro into whatever your currently gaming with (PC or console), I believe the Astro can drive the DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones decently.


 
  
 mine just come with: 
 "
  
 Intel® High Definition Audio subsystem in the following configuration:
 10-channel (7.1+ 2 independent multi-streaming) audio subsystem using the Realtek ALC892* audio codec
 Five analog audio ports and one optical S/PDIF out port
 Internal S/PDIF header and front panel audio header
 "
 If i dont buy the astro mix-amp, the sound will still be better than the tritton 720?
 And when i buy it will be 7.1 as the tritton is? i dont understand too much about that... but im reading...
 Thanks for your answer!


----------



## PurpleAngel

famibica said:


> Intel® High Definition Audio subsystem in the following configuration:
> 10-channel (7.1+ 2 independent multi-streaming) audio subsystem using the Realtek ALC892* audio codec
> Five analog audio ports and one optical S/PDIF out port
> Internal S/PDIF header and front panel audio header
> ...


 
 Would help to know the make and model of the motherboard?
 (for around $60, you can add a Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card, comes with DDL)


----------



## famibica

purpleangel said:


> Would help to know the make and model of the motherboard?
> (for around $60, you can add a Asus Xonar DX or D1 sound card, comes with DDL)


 
 Its a Intel DH67BL. A poor one i guess...
  
 The idea, is not to use any aditional cards on pc because i want to use it on xbox360 and ps3 also(ill buy a mic if i buy a headphone).

 But here where i live the mixamp from astro is rare(it will cost me almost the double to someone at USA), the tritton ones i can found easily and cheaper(even at ebay). 
  
 I was reading all night, and i found plenty setups dt770pro + astro mixamp + zalman mic, if i buy the tritton ones to use on the consoles, where can i find the cable to use the control box from tritton on any headphone(i even dont know what headset output type comes from the tritton control box)? or it is just possible at the astro mixamp?
  
 Thanks friend!


----------



## xpok

Hello.
  
 I am using AD700 with Xonar D1 ( nothing special i know ). 
 Positional audio with those two is tragic. Dolby Headphone makes everything mixed. Cant really tell from which direction i am hearing noise. 
  
 After choosing only 8 chanel in Xonar drivers everything is much better. Still not very good but i can tell now which is right which is left. 
  
 Dont want to be grump but i think that DH is overrated. I am buying Titanium HD to try something different. Maybe in the future i try to get STX for comparison.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes every mixed? What dos that even mean? If it doesn't give you comparable sound cues to the video I posted on the first page, something is wrong with your settings.


----------



## xpok

Sorry. I poorly expressed myself. While testing ( not in game ) DH is very good ( same as 8 chanel ) but while in game simple 8 channels is much better, i can hear gunshots separately ( footsteps still are very hard to hear ) but with DH its like one big shot, really cant separate them ( footsteps like 8 channels setting ).
 Settings:
 I have 7.1 in windows
 48KHz
 8 channels, Headphone in Xonar settings ( or DH enabled - tried 7.1 and "simple" DH and various speaker shifts ), 
  
 I am noob  and maybe i set something wrong.


----------



## famibica

Ill end up buying a tritton control box or an astro mixamp + dt 770 pro... I really dont know if the sound will be good as an pure astro a40...


 


Here we cant test the headphones/headsets, they are impossible to find on normal stores...


 


Endless doubt. =/


----------



## I95North

famibica said:


> Ill end up buying a tritton control box and a mixamp + dt 770 pro... I really dont know if the sound will be good as an pure astro a40...
> 
> Here we cant test the headphones/headsets, they are impossible to find on normal stores...
> 
> Endless doubt. =/


 
  
 You should be fine with that setup it does better even with the added tons of low end bass.. It will no doubt  surpass the a40 headset for sound whoring If that is what your after


----------



## I95North

mad lust envy said:


> Not being impressed by the MA900's soundstage, would make you certifiably insane. Yeah, better re-evaluate, since the MA900 has the largest soundstage, this side of AD700.


 
  
 ha ha that's too funny... Maybe its because how he is wearing them on his head??  They should be worn all the way down on the tops of the earlobes and pulled towards the the back of your head..
  
 Another thought the left and right indicators on the headset should be pulled back towards the back of  his head if any of this makes any sense lol....


----------



## famibica

i95north said:


> You should be fine with that setup it does better even with the added tons of low end bass.. It will no doubt  surpass the a40 headset for sound whoring If that is what your after


 
  
 thanks, yes im after the best sound for the money i have =]
  
 Ill try dt 770 pro + mixamp but ill buy the mixamp later because of the lack of money xD
  
 Have a nice day friend!


----------



## sadboy

Hello. I found this site through Mad Lust Envy's thread. I'm pretty much clueless outside of what I've read from him.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AxelCloris

sadboy said:


> Hello. I found this site through Mad Lust Envy's thread. I'm pretty much clueless outside of what I've read from him.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Welcome to Head-Fi! I assume you're joining us from one of the other boards where MLE participates.


----------



## Murder Mike

sadboy said:


> Hello. I found this site through Mad Lust Envy's thread. I'm pretty much clueless outside of what I've read from him.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 Hi, did you have a specific question or were you just introducing yourself? Most of the basics are covered in the OP or in Nameless's thread.


----------



## ethan7000

Spent a nice afternoon today - Mad, you gotta hear these. I've never heard the Dx000 series so I can't compare, but man do I love these. 600 or 900 will be my next purchase. Maybe I'll be able to hear the 900 at CanJam.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im sure I'd love them, for sure.


----------



## aak57

How does the PLAYR hook up to video game systems?  RCA cables or something?


----------



## cheuh

ethan7000 said:


> Spent a nice afternoon today - Mad, you gotta hear these. I've never heard the Dx000 series so I can't compare, but man do I love these. 600 or 900 will be my next purchase. Maybe I'll be able to hear the 900 at CanJam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 How does the TH600 compare to your HE-400 and X1? Are they in another league and would they 'blow them out of the water'?


----------



## chicolom

I like to imagine that at some point I'll have an open airy headphone like the HD800 and a fun headphone like THx00 as my two complimentary cans.
  
 Maybe the THx00 is a logical upgrade to the X1s sound, with better bass, more soundstage (maybe?), and better detail and refinement.


----------



## sadboy

axelcloris said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi! I assume you're joining us from one of the other boards where MLE participates.


 
  
  


murder mike said:


> Hi, did you have a specific question or were you just introducing yourself? Most of the basics are covered in the OP or in Nameless's thread.


 
 Thanks for the welcome. I was mainly introducing myself/subscribing to the thread, as I find this is probably the thread I look at the most. Basically, I found this thread through word of mouth. Like in most of my hobbies (e.g., flashlights, gaming), I keep things as minimal as possible. It wasn't until a month ago that I learned it was possible to orient myself in competitive games like Call of Duty using sound. That completely piqued my interest.
  
 Basically, I'm here to see where else I can take things.


----------



## raul219

Envy, how would you compare the X1, Q701 and MA900 as all around headphones? I have to choose one of them and I'm down to these three. I'm going to use them mainly in my PC with a Xonar DX and a Fiio E11. The X1s are the most expensive so if there's not mush difference quality wise the I wouldn't mind getting the Q701/MA900. From what I've read I think I would be happy with the presentation on any of them.


----------



## ethan7000

cheuh said:


> How does the TH600 compare to your HE-400 and X1? Are they in another league and would they 'blow them out of the water'?



They are in another league. Geez, Chico kinda got it right (have you heard these?) when he said "Maybe the THx00 is a logical upgrade to the X1s sound, with better bass, more soundstage (maybe?), and better detail and refinement"

VS. the 400: Basically, the 600 can do EDM like a perfectly EQ'd 400 can - without any EQ at all. But then it also excels at genres where the 400 is limited. The 600 excels in classical and jazz as well. This is an all-rounder that actually excels in most genres. If I were to A/B them, I might be able to give the 400 an advantage in bass texture, but I didn't have the 400 with me.

VS. the X1: As I said, Chico basically got it right. Better bass extension and quality, better treble, better soundstage, detail, refinement. I would say the X1 is slightly warmer and I may give the edge to it in some vocal tracks. That might be the only area where the 600 is lacking a bit. From what I've read, the HE-500, with its lush mids, might be the perfect complement to the 600. Then you'd have just about every genre covered. But if I could have just one headphone, it'd be the 600 (or 900). And by the way, these do not sound closed to me AT ALL, besides having potent sub bass that stays just where it should.


----------



## chicolom

ethan7000 said:


> Geez, Chico kinda got it right (have you heard these?) when he said "Maybe the THx00 is a logical upgrade to the X1s sound, with better bass, more soundstage (maybe?), and better detail and refinement"


 
  
  
 I heard the TH900 _very_ briefly at a meet.


----------



## didactandnarpet

Just bought a pair of HE-400 per your review.  Very excited as to what I'll be hearing.  Hopefully it'll pair well with my essence stx.  It was a toss up between the 400 and an X1.  Really I just jumped on what popped up in the for sale thread first.  Currently using a set of dt 880 600 right now.  From what I gather it'll be a step up.  Anyway just want to give a big thank ou for what you're doing MLE.  You rock


----------



## ethan7000

sadboy said:


> Thanks for the welcome. I was mainly introducing myself/subscribing to the thread, as I find this is probably the thread I look at the most. Basically, I found this thread through word of mouth. Like in most of my hobbies (e.g., flashlights, gaming), I keep things as minimal as possible. It wasn't until a month ago that I learned it was possible to orient myself in competitive games like Call of Duty using sound. That completely piqued my interest.
> 
> Basically, I'm here to see where else I can take things.



Just curious, how can flashlights be a hobby? Is it anything like headphones where you can discuss strengths and weaknesses of different models? Is there a flashlight-fi type forum out there?


----------



## ethan7000

didactandnarpet said:


> Just bought a pair of HE-400 per your review.  Very excited as to what I'll be hearing.  Hopefully it'll pair well with my essence stx.  It was a toss up between the 400 and an X1.  Really I just jumped on what popped up in the for sale thread first.  Currently using a set of dt 880 600 right now.  From what I gather it'll be a step up.  Anyway just want to give a big thank ou for what you're doing MLE.  You rock



I tried to game with the 400 tonight and just couldn't get them to sound right. Spoiled by the X1 in that arena I guess :/ Let me know if you prefer them to the 880 for gaming.


----------



## didactandnarpet

ethan7000 said:


> I tried to game with the 400 tonight and just couldn't get them to sound right. Spoiled by the X1 in that arena I guess :/ Let me know if you prefer them to the 880 for gaming.


 
  
 Oh that statement is a little disheartening.  Perhaps I should have waited until a X1 popped up.  I'll definitely judge for myself though and let you know my thoughts.  At the very least I'm searching for the perfect gaming headphone so I'm sure a X1 (and fingers crossed a D7000) will come into my possession eventually.  I'm very happy with my current set of 880s.  However based on what I've read there are much better cans for gaming.  I know this hobby is very subjective though, so perhaps I'll love my 400's.  Right now I'm mainly hoping that my Essence stx has the juice to power them properly.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> ha ha that's too funny... Maybe its because how he is wearing them on his head??  They should be worn all the way down on the tops of the earlobes and pulled towards the the back of your head..
> 
> Another thought the left and right indicators on the headset should be pulled back towards the back of  his head if any of this makes any sense lol....



Curious, you talking about me here? If so my problem was that I thought I'd saved certain surround settings to my Recon3D, but when I looked at it a few days ago it wasn't what I expected/preferred. Gonna do a write up and send them along presently.



ethan7000 said:


> Just curious, how can flashlights be a hobby? Is it anything like headphones where you can discuss strengths and weaknesses of different models? Is there a flashlight-fi type forum out there?



I just read that bit and just thought to myself how awesome it would've been to have a convenient flashlight for coming upstairs and going to bed. Maybe a red one to let my eyes adjust to the dark, or at least one that can go from tight beam to wide. Tactical light, soft light, adjustable beam, size/weight, LED vs Incandescent bulbs (or other?), EDC carry, waterproofing, the more I think about it the more I realize there are many ways to customize or optimize for a task. We use those squat little LEDs with watch battery flashlights that go on a keychain all the time at work, and the several times I've forgotten to unhook mine from my pants have often resulted in the light coming in handy outside of work.

I doubt it would be called light-Fi because fidelity isn't so much a priority in a beam of illumination, but perhaps a lumaphile or luxaphile work? There may not be a community behind it, but I bet people consider merits and write reviews. Maybe the "community" is strongly tied to preppers as a whole?


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> I like to imagine that at some point I'll have an open airy headphone like the HD800 and a fun headphone like THx00 as my two complimentary cans.
> 
> Maybe the THx00 is a logical upgrade to the X1s sound, with better bass, more soundstage (maybe?), and better detail and refinement.


 
  
 Maybe a trinity. Very airy and balanced/linear + very euphonic tear jerking + closed, isolated well balanced.
  
 Not fair to compare the X1 to the TH-900. Bass alone is miles apart in body, detail, layering, texture and it's very fast. Soundstage of the TH-900 to me is excellent and bigger (especially spacious since many headphones don't get that part right) than it's design suggests but that is the same with the D7000 - not really closed. TH-900, T1, HD 800 for soundstage. T1 and HD 800 are more clinical so out of both you should take the technical superiority and that is the HD 800.


----------



## Murder Mike

aak57 said:


> How does the PLAYR hook up to video game systems?  RCA cables or something?


 
  
 The PLYR 1 looks like it hooks up through USB or optical with a pass-though and has a 3.5mm input. The PLYR 2 uses USB or 3.5mm input.


----------



## AvroArrow

ethan7000 said:


> Just curious, how can flashlights be a hobby? Is it anything like headphones where you can discuss strengths and weaknesses of different models? Is there a flashlight-fi type forum out there?


 
  
 Anything can be a hobby, like those tiny bits of paper you stick on envelopes to mail them.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It is actually much easier to compare different flashlights, headlamps, etc since it is much more objective.  Everything is measurable with scientific equipment so comparisons are quantifiable and repeatable.  There is still a subjective element to it regarding aesthetics for instance, and the person's color perception.  Like how everyone's hearing is a bit different, so is their eye sight and color perception.  There are a few flashlight forums out there, but the largest and oldest is www.candlepowerforums.com, which as been around since 2000.  


evshrug said:


> I just read that bit and just thought to myself how awesome it would've been to have a convenient flashlight for coming upstairs and going to bed. Maybe a red one to let my eyes adjust to the dark, or at least one that can go from tight beam to wide. Tactical light, soft light, adjustable beam, size/weight, LED vs Incandescent bulbs (or other?), EDC carry, waterproofing, the more I think about it the more I realize there are many ways to customize or optimize for a task. We use those squat little LEDs with watch battery flashlights that go on a keychain all the time at work, and the several times I've forgotten to unhook mine from my pants have often resulted in the light coming in handy outside of work.
> 
> I doubt it would be called light-Fi because fidelity isn't so much a priority in a beam of illumination, but perhaps a lumaphile or luxaphile work? There may not be a community behind it, but I bet people consider merits and write reviews. Maybe the "community" is strongly tied to preppers as a whole?


 
  
 Check out www.candlepowerforums.com if you're interested in that hobby.  You can read about anything from cheap $5 Chinese made lights to $1000+ custom 6AL4V Titanium alloy lights made in the U.S., and they're called Flashaholics.  It's a much cheaper hobby to get into versus headphones/amps/dacs/etc.  I just looked and the list of registered memebers is currently just under 24,000.  I've been on there since around 2003/2004.  It used to be a more fun hobby because there was much more DIY mods since the industry wasn't very large, but now it's almost completely commoditized so there is a lot less DIY and custom stuff nowadays.   
  
 BTW, red light doesn't actually work that well for night vision, a super dim white light (sub 0.5 lumens) works better for not destroying your night vision.  And no one yet has perfected a variable beam light because you will always compromise the efficiency of the optics.  e.g. a pure flood light requires very different optics than a tight beam light, and you can really only efficiently optimize for 1 beam type.  Anyway, I think that's enough OT typing from me.  Back to our regularly schedule programming...


----------



## Evshrug

avroarrow said:


> BTW, red light doesn't actually work that well for night vision, a super dim white light (sub 0.5 lumens) works better for not destroying your night vision.



I thought astronomers swore by them, because the wavelength carried the least energy or our eyes are less sensitive to it, or something like that.

Torchheads!

Watched Dredd last night with the MA900. So I've now heard a sampling of gaming, music, and movies with the headphone, gonna retest gaming and send them along to Calpis tomorrow if I wake up early enough or Thursday.


----------



## pervysage

Finally got a chance to do some Call of Duty last night with the TH900's and the positional accuracy is great. I would say it's on par with the X1's... maybe even a little bit clearer and easier to pinpoint exactly where someone is coming from.
  
 I was playing some Search & Destroy and I was the last one alive against 5 people, and I was able to kill all of them lmao. Every time I took one down, I could tell exactly where the next one was coming from when they came to avenge their teammate.
  
 The good imaging on the TH900's really helps. I haven't yet had a situation where I get confused on where a sound is coming from.


----------



## ethan7000

pervysage said:


> Finally got a chance to do some Call of Duty last night with the TH900's and the positional accuracy is great. I would say it's on par with the X1's... maybe even a little bit clearer and easier to pinpoint exactly where someone is coming from.
> 
> I was playing some Search & Destroy and I was the last one alive against 5 people, and I was able to kill all of them lmao. Every time I took one down, I could tell exactly where the next one was coming from when they came to avenge their teammate.
> 
> The good imaging on the TH900's really helps. I haven't yet had a situation where I get confused on where a sound is coming from.



I'd have guessed positioning would be superior to the X1.


----------



## sadboy

evshrug said:


> I thought astronomers swore by them, because the wavelength carried the least energy or our eyes are less sensitive to it, or something like that.
> 
> *Torchheads!*
> 
> Watched Dredd last night with the MA900. So I've now heard a sampling of gaming, music, and movies with the headphone, gonna retest gaming and send them along to Calpis tomorrow if I wake up early enough or Thursday.


 
 Light junkies!
  
 The cool thing about flashlights is there's something for everyone. I was reading about people scorpion hunting, while browsing Candle Power Forums in search for a UV light.
  


pervysage said:


> Finally got a chance to do some Call of Duty last night with the TH900's and the positional accuracy is great. I would say it's on par with the X1's... maybe even a little bit clearer and easier to pinpoint exactly where someone is coming from.
> 
> I was playing some Search & Destroy and I was the last one alive against 5 people, and I was able to kill all of them lmao. Every time I took one down, I could tell exactly where the next one was coming from when they came to avenge their teammate.
> 
> The good imaging on the TH900's really helps. I haven't yet had a situation where I get confused on where a sound is coming from.


 
 You guys should form a Head-Fi clan and out-soundwhore people with the craziest headphones. _Just kidding_.


----------



## Evshrug

sadboy said:


> Light junkies!
> 
> The cool thing about flashlights is there's something for everyone. I was reading about people scorpion hunting, while browsing Candle Power Forums in search for a UV light.
> 
> You guys should form a Head-Fi clan and out-soundwhore people with the craziest headphones. _Just kidding_.



We can't. Everyone would leave and we'd never finish a game.


----------



## Skipshrike

BF4 beta with AKG K712 <3

You can hear the elevator doors open while the rest of the game explodes. If you've played the beta, you know that's important to holding a roof!


----------



## sadboy

evshrug said:


> We can't. Everyone would leave and we'd never finish a game.


 
 The hardest thing for me has been to coordinate with teammates. My random teams usually consist of slayers who don't care about the objectives, campers and teammates who don't back up other players. I'm not good at FPS, but I think I would perform better if I played with regular teammates. At the same time, I have a solo setup (i.e., no mic).


----------



## Evshrug

sadboy said:


> The hardest thing for me has been to coordinate with teammates. My random teams usually consist of slayers who don't care about the objectives, campers and teammates who don't back up other players. I'm not good at FPS, but I think I would perform better if I played with regular teammates. At the same time, I have a solo setup (i.e., no mic).


 
 Ah yes, the teammate dilemma. I think actually Mad is kind of a lone wolf, tho the scores he posts are like team-carrying scores. I play with another guy regularly (we have been for like 5 years, as long as I've been with my girlfriend.... huh.), and we are pretty used to eachother's reactions and are pretty good at breaching as a pair, but often the best teammate is one who goes positive and doesn't get in the way. Enemy callouts are useful too, but BF3 (and maybe 4?) has a visual option for that which is clearer than shouting it.
  
 Basically, it's hard to coordinate more than half the time, cuz one of you may die and spawn somewhere else.
  
  
  


skipshrike said:


> BF4 beta with AKG K712 <3
> 
> You can hear the elevator doors open while the rest of the game explodes. If you've played the beta, you know that's important to holding a roof!


 
  
 I'm gonna have to get on that beta, got an invite this morning. May take all night to download tho.


----------



## Skipshrike

Although, now that I'm playing the support class more I prefer the X1 because of its bass. Why can't I have two heads?!


----------



## ethan7000

skipshrike said:


> BF4 beta with AKG K712 <3
> 
> You can hear the elevator doors open while the rest of the game explodes. If you've played the beta, you know that's important to holding a roof!


 
  
 Getting on the beta around 4:30 MST, PM me if you want to join


----------



## modulor

Oh boy... BF4 beta tonight...all nighttt!


----------



## xero404

pretty jealous. Upgraded my pc to SLI just for that game buuuuuuuut I haven't preordered so i gotta wait 2 more days. I'll be *not *having fun *trying *to play gta5 online on ps3 . Stupid gta servers.....


----------



## Change is Good

I was actually pretty disapponted in the BF4 beta as compared to BF3... but then again I'm on PS3. I'm sure the PC and next gen versions will be better.
  
 At least I hope so....


----------



## modulor

I'm fairly certain if you have BF3 Premium there is a chance you are already in the Beta.  Check your email


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I was actually pretty disapponted in the BF4 beta as compared to BF3... but then again I'm on PS3. I'm sure the PC and next gen versions will be better.
> 
> At least I hope so....


Well, I got premium for PC even though I'd kinda gotten bored with my pre-order edition bf3 on Xbox360, so I'll let you know what it's like on PC.


----------



## xero404

modulor said:


> I'm fairly certain if you have BF3 Premium there is a chance you are already in the Beta.  Check your email


 
  
 i'm not sure what the premium stands for? DLC pack probably? i bought bf3 at launch so probably not premium...


----------



## I95North

evshrug said:


> Curious, you talking about me here? If so my problem was that I thought I'd saved certain surround settings to my Recon3D, but when I looked at it a few days ago it wasn't what I expected/preferred. Gonna do a write up and send them along presently.


 
 cool no probs and no hard feelings.. I was just injecting my 2 cents into the mix on how the headset  should be worn for maximum imaging that's all..I did not mean any ill intentions.. Also I would love hear your impresions on the imaging of the MA900 compaired to your Q701    "How it stacks up"..   I look forward to the comparison...


----------



## modulor

xero404 said:


> i'm not sure what the premium stands for? DLC pack probably? i bought bf3 at launch so probably not premium...


 
  
 Yeah, I technically have the Limited Edition from launch but Premium was an additional thing you could get to unlock all the DLC episodes and other goodies.  I believe I read that on the 4th it goes public beta so you can likely check it out then.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Well, I got premium for PC even though I'd kinda gotten bored with my pre-order edition bf3 on Xbox360, so I'll let you know what it's like on PC.


 
  
 Yes, I got a bit bored after the final map pack myself on PS3. I put it down for about a month and then it felt like a new game again lol. I, unfortunately, don't have the option to play that 64v64 beast of a PC version.
  
 The BF4 beta on PS3 seems like it is nowhere near as polished as BF3. I know its only a beta but it kind of reminds me of Medal of Honor Warfighter which was a complete fail. The BF3 beta was more polished from what I remember. And don't get me started on how they changed the controls... grrrrrr...


----------



## modulor

change is good said:


> Yes, I got a bit bored after the final map pack myself on PS3. I put it down for about a month and then it felt like a new game again lol. I, unfortunately, don't have the option to play that 64v64 beast of a PC version.
> 
> The BF4 beta on PS3 seems like it is nowhere near as polished as BF3. I know its only a beta but it kind of reminds me of Medal of Honor Warfighter which was a complete fail. The BF3 beta was more polished from what I remember. And don't get me started on how they changed the controls... grrrrrr...


 
  
 It looks (and sounds) nice on the PC.  Definitely a few bugs and kinks to work out but it seems a little more robust overall than BF3 so far.  Hard to say which will play better at this point, but it runs pretty nicely on my rig.  Movements of just about everything feel more realistic. Oh, and there is some sweet explosion sub-bass... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I'm not one to judge accurate positional cues but it seems better than BF3.  I hope it doesn't end up going the way of Warfighter...that was kind of a disgrace.


----------



## Change is Good

modulor said:


> It looks (and sounds) nice on the PC.  Definitely a few bugs and kinks to work out but it seems a little more robust overall than BF3 so far.  Hard to say which will play better at this point, but it runs pretty nicely on my rig.  Movements of just about everything feel more realistic. Oh, and there is some sweet explosion sub-bass...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Remember I'm only talking about the PS3 version. The graphics just seem inferior compared to BF3 and looks like Warfighter to me. But I do have to agree that the audio has been refined, at least.
  
 The way you describe the PC version, though, does sound promising. That is why I am waiting on the PS4 version with my fingers crossed...


----------



## ethan7000

The actual sounds on the BF4 beta PC are absolutely fantastic, a big step up from BF3. The X1 seems perfect for it, having a great time.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yesterday I finally had my first real gaming session (and generally my first game in months, finally) with the Fostex TH-900 and the Shadow Warrior Remake. I was a huge Shadow warrior nerd back in the day and played it several times, liked it much more than Duke Nukem. Liked the guns, that rocket nuke, the slicing with the sword and the funny speech. The remake handles the swordplay in a very stylish fashion (original was quite simple in it though still fun, swords against shooting enemies is always stylish) and introduces magic and passive boostsl. Anyway, yesterday...
  
 You know, at the beginning of every stage/mission/chapter you can hear introductory drums and it's amazing with both HD 800 and TH 900 but I have to give the nod to the Fostex because the impact body can be "sensed" better. I know that the D7000 is similar to that but the Fostex is faster (and faster in general) in the lower departments so the sense of a body is much stronger. Heavy impact of bass and a fast attack/decay are two qualities that help create that sense. Headphones like the Signature DJ, X1 are not very fast down below so while the bass still contributes to the immersion it's rather a swimming pool of bass during many explosions and heavy guns or let's say the contures of the body are not really there, it's rather smeared, blurred and loose. In the above context I am not saying the HD 800 isn't fast, it just lacks the TH-900's impact.  
  
 As you can expect coming from a D7000 the soundstage is very big and let me tell you it doesn't leave me wanting more in no way or fashion. I had a lot headphones so far and also some closed ones and yes, the TH-900 isn't really closed but in either way it trumps so many other headphones in soundstage. And that is not only by pure size (which is always not enough to judge) but by the general feel of space in all directions. Some headphones are oval, some are downright flat, congested (planars especially) or too weak in the middle that left and right are more pronounced and the middle part is like a hole (AKGs) but in this case there's none of it. As I mentioned a few posts earlier TH-900, HD 800 and T1 do it right. I call it phantom center. 
  
 I had a long session last night and just woke up so I probably left out some more details about my experience but it feels good to have played a game for longer in all this time.
  
 The only sad part about all this is the price of the TH-900. I really wish more people could enjoy it but since we are in gaming and not talking about Deutsche Grammophon records or Stockfisch the TH-600 seems to be quite good as well and looking over at pricejapan I think the price should be quite tempting for many here.
  
 I will be playing more and more games over the next months and always compare the TH-900 with the HD 800, and possibly the Alpha Dogs. My English isn't good and fluent enough for a whole wall of text unfortunately so you have to bear with "snippets". 
  
 All my impressions are always from my DAC. I really love the Anedio, it's one of the very very few DACs that also do the HPA output right, with 0 noise on multi balanced armatures. They have measurements up on their side in every detail. I compared to a ton of other DACs like Benchmark, Matrix, Yulong, Violectric and the damn importing fee was still worth it. For you Americans who are living in dreamland anyway (regarding hifi and home cinema prices) that deal is more than awesome.


----------



## pietcux

Having the Signature DJ and the K 702, I prefer the K 702 for any type of gaming, because I need to hear where the enemies are. That is where too much bass can annoy me. The Sig DJ however is my favotite music can.


----------



## Evshrug

i95north said:


> cool no probs and no hard feelings.. I was just injecting my 2 cents into the mix on how the headset  should be worn for maximum imaging that's all..I did not mean any ill intentions.. Also I would love hear your impresions on the imaging of the MA900 compaired to your Q701    "How it stacks up"..   I look forward to the comparison...



Uh, I really only compared the MA900 to the K712, and now the MA900 is boxed up to ship to Calpis. Is that alright? I suppose I could pull the Q701 and do a quick A/B... may be a good service as so e people find their price close enough. From previous experience though, I'd recommend the Q701 over the MA900 if price is within reach.





change is good said:


> Yes, I got a bit bored after the final map pack myself on PS3. I put it down for about a month and then it felt like a new game again lol. I, unfortunately, don't have the option to play that 64v64 beast of a PC version.
> 
> The BF4 beta on PS3 seems like it is nowhere near as polished as BF3. I know its only a beta but it kind of reminds me of Medal of Honor Warfighter which was a complete fail. The BF3 beta was more polished from what I remember. And don't get me started on how they changed the controls... grrrrrr... :angry_face:



BF3 beta made me buy the game, before everyone got experienced with the game and started totally tank-owning everything (with repair and advanced unlocks). Some people complained tactical flashlights were OP in the beta tho. Looking forward to trying BF4, though the download will take a while.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, WELL, that was an interesting comparison.
Tell you guys all about it later though, gonna run to the post office. Literally.


----------



## briansun1

would you buy hd 439's?


----------



## gl0ry

After owning the AD900x for a couple months, they started to bother me after an hour or so.  Started to slide down my head and feel a bit clamped.  Ordered an the MA900 to give it a shot.  I don't doubt you or a_recording!


----------



## Change is Good

My K712 is here! Oh how I missed that openness...


Definitely a bit refined over the Anniversary but nothing major...


----------



## SouDesu

about the MA900,
 how much do they benefit  from amping ?
 and will the xonar u3 alone drive them well ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 sounds good off basically anything, including just off my Galaxy Note 2. The impedance compensator (the line of resistors inside of the MA900), will ensure that the frequency response won't stray far off from it's target response even with the incredibly high 23ohm U3.

The U3 is not much of an amp in any way, and I feel it's a bit on the thin side in sound, but that's not a problem for the MA900 which sounds like it always runs off a tube amp.

So yes, the U3 should be fine with the MA900, though I hope you plan on using something better at some point. The MA900 sounds great off the E17 (which in turn easily attaches to the U3's optical out, so you can use the U3 just as a Dolby processor for the E17). If the E07K had an optical input, I would've been happy with that too. Not too many spdif dacs at this price range, so it makes sense to recommend the E17, which is an all in one unit.


----------



## Change is Good

I was already on the fence of end game when I had the Anniversary... but I think I may now just be there. You were right, chico, about the slight (yet improving) differences between it and the K712. I am able notice the slightly more refined and less peaky mids because I'm using my MDs to compare with like I did with the Anniversary.
  
 I don't want to say it's end game just yet, though... and have to bite my words like someone I know...


----------



## AxelCloris

Aww, no more horsies.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> I was already on the fence of end game when I had the Anniversary... but I think I may now just be there. You were right, chico, about the slight (yet improving) differences between it and the K712. I am able notice the slightly more refined and less peaky mids because I'm using my MDs to compare with like I did with the Anniversary.
> 
> I don't want to say it's end game just yet, though... and have to bite my words like someone I know...


 
  
 Glad you like them!
  
 Yeah, they're mainly a slightly refined Anniversary with a few subtle changes that slightly improve upon it.
  
 For me that makes them pretty much as good as it gets for mid-fi though.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Glad you like them!
> 
> Yeah, they're mainly a slightly refined Anniversary with a few subtle changes that slightly improve upon it.
> 
> For me that makes them pretty much as good as it gets for mid-fi though.


 
  
  
 And mid-fi is a good as it gets for my wallet... so I guess I'm set!


----------



## OnePunchMan

What would be a good amp to pair with the old k701's and the mixamp?


----------



## daleb

So 2 things have happened:
 1) my audio-out jack on my laptop somehow broke, leaving it so unless I push down on the headphone jack I don't get sound in the left ear
 2) I just ordered an oculus rift, in which non-surround sound audio is very immersive breaking.
  
 I'm wondering which usb plugin to get. I was looking at the Xonar U3, but I'd like something that can't be broken while on the go. Is there any dolby usb that comes on a small cord instead? Or is the Xonar U3 strong enough to handle a little bit of pressure?


----------



## Sony Slave

Are there any pros and cons to using a DSS2 vs the Astro Mix Amp?
 Which one is better?
  
 I'll be running a PS4--->Bi-Frost (Uber Analog)--->Little Dot 1+--->Shure SRH 840s at the moment.


----------



## AxelCloris

sony slave said:


> Are there any pros and cons to using a DSS2 vs the Astro Mix Amp?
> Which one is better?
> 
> I'll be running a PS4--->Bi-Frost (Uber Analog)--->Little Dot 1+--->Shure SRH 840s at the moment.


 
  
 Mixamp handles voice, DSS doesn't. So if you don't need voice chat go with the DSS since it's cheaper. If you do, go with the Mixamp. And if you can track down the original DSS instead of a DSS2, I hear it has a lower noise floor.


----------



## henhowc

For anyone who owns the SkullCandy PLYR 1.
  
 I am experiencing a Netflix Ps3 app issue where starting a video with 5.1 audio selected resulted in no audio. No other games or apps on PS3 did this nor does my Xbox 360. Switching to stereo and back to 5.1 fixed this but still annoying to have to do.
  
 Ccan anyone else with a ps3 reproduce this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daleb said:


> So 2 things have happened:
> 1) my audio-out jack on my laptop somehow broke, leaving it so unless I push down on the headphone jack I don't get sound in the left ear
> 2) I just ordered an oculus rift, in which non-surround sound audio is very immersive breaking.
> 
> I'm wondering which usb plugin to get. I was looking at the Xonar U3, but I'd like something that can't be broken while on the go. Is there any dolby usb that comes on a small cord instead? Or is the Xonar U3 strong enough to handle a little bit of pressure?



Coincidentally, the U3 also comes with a small usb cable, so you dont have to attach it directly to the laptop, so you should be fine.


----------



## chicolom

sony slave said:


> Are there any pros and cons to using a DSS2 vs the Astro Mix Amp?
> Which one is better?
> 
> I'll be running a PS4--->Bi-Frost (Uber Analog)--->Little Dot 1+--->Shure SRH 840s at the moment.


 
  
 The Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone, as does the _original_ DSS.  The DSS *2* doesn't use Dolby Headphone, and has a different surround DSP.
  
 With either one, you won't be using your Bi-frost. The DSS or mixamp has to be the DAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

henhowc said:


> For anyone who owns the SkullCandy PLYR 1.
> 
> I am experiencing a Netflix Ps3 app issue where starting a video with 5.1 audio selected resulted in no audio. No other games or apps on PS3 did this nor does my Xbox 360. Switching to stereo and back to 5.1 fixed this but still annoying to have to do.
> 
> Ccan anyone else with a ps3 reproduce this?



Just toggle the Dolby button off and the on again. The Plyr has a problem when the audio signal switches from pcm stereo to dolby. Toggling the button on the base should fix it, though every time you switch the audio it might happen. I mentioned this on the review, though when it came to going from the XMB to a specific game.


----------



## bajsmalen

What amp do you think would be a good match with *DT990P/250*, Magni or O2? or something else?

 Regards


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All the ones I mentioned on the front page will work well with the 990 Pro.


----------



## Mackem

Wonder what the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 will be like. Trying to find some really comfortable circumaural phones for games and dance / pop music, but haven't got a clue what to get under £100ish. Comfort is really important for me, anything with deep/soft earcups and lighter weight would be great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm more curious about whether it will have Fostex bio cellulose drivers, or if Creative went elsewhere.


----------



## PurpleAngel

bajsmalen said:


> What amp do you think would be a good match with *DT990P/250*, Magni or O2? or something else?


 
 Both the Magni & O2 can easily drive 250-Ohm headphones (DT990), so go with whichever is cheaper (Magni).


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, have you ventured into finding a portable yet? Or are you saving cash for something mysterious... 

I know you're missing your ma900 very dearly...


----------



## Mackem

mad lust envy said:


> I'm more curious about whether it will have Fostex bio cellulose drivers, or if Creative went elsewhere.


 
  
 Yeah, should be interesting for sure. Still gutted that the DT770 Pro 80s put a bit too much pressure on my jaw for my liking. Not sure if it was because I didn't have them for long or what.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, have you ventured into finding a portable yet? Or are you saving cash for something mysterious...
> 
> I know you're missing your ma900 very dearly...




I can't afford anything, but I have been eyeing the black Senn Momentum On Ears every day now. They are what I want.



DEM PADZ


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I can't afford anything, but I have been eyeing the black Senn Momentum On Ears every day now. They are what I want.


 

  
 I thought you looked at those a while ago and decided you wouldn't really use them. 
  





  


mad lust envy said:


> I did cancel the Momentum though. Thanks to Chicolom for basically pushing further into not wanting them anymore. I really wouldn't have used them much. I DO want them, but that is more impulse than any real benefit to me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

head-fi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 killing minds and wallets since forever


----------



## widdyjudas

Chico, Have you used the x1 with the matrix m-stage? How does those 2 pairs?
 The M stage rate min output is 60ohm, will it harm the low 30ohm x1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I thought you looked at those a while ago and decided you wouldn't really use them.
> 
> :blink:




Precisely why I haven't given into my urge to get them.


----------



## Change is Good

Ah, I see. I spend most of my day on campus so my IEMs and M80 get plenty head time. Well, not the m80 as much but since I got it from the Radio Shack clearance for $40 I can't complain.

Still, those on-ear momentums look gangsta... and like you said... those pads, though... mmmmm. Wish I could find some velours for my m80.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Ah, I see. I spend most of my day on campus so my IEMs and M80 get plenty head time. Well, not the m80 as much but since I got it from the Radio Shack clearance for $40 I can't complain.
> 
> Still, those on-ear momentums look gangsta... and like you said... those pads, though... mmmmm. Wish I could find some velours for my m80.


 
  
 I've been contemplating asking a friend of mine if she can take apart the M-80 pads, use the memory foam and re-finish them in velour. I may order a second pair from V-Moda and see if she can work her magic on them.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I've been contemplating asking a friend of mine if she can take apart the M-80 pads, use the memory foam and re-finish them in velour. I may order a second pair from V-Moda and see if she can work her magic on them.


If it works out let me know so I can pay her to do mine


----------



## TwelveTrains

So do you not watch movies with virtual surround? As the Astro Mixamp cannot decode DTS?


----------



## Change is Good

twelvetrains said:


> So do you not watch movies with virtual surround? As the Astro Mixamp cannot decode DTS?


Check the front page.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp can't decode DTS, but...

DvDs are encoded in Dolby, and for DTS only Blu-rays, I use my ps3 which has an option that converts DTS into Dolby, which the Mixamp decodes.

The method to do that is on the first page...again.


----------



## Evshrug

So I saw you mention a RadioShack sale/clearance before, went into my local shop (like Friday or something) but they didn't have anything from the brand. Is the sale over, or was it a web-only thing?


----------



## Change is Good

It was an in-store clearance from what I know... and most stores are now sold out. I believe the m80 has been discontinued by vmoda which explains the clearance sale.

I thank Axel for bringing it to my attention... because I was not to eying the deals thread to notice


----------



## gl0ry

You gotta be kidding me...just got my ma900s!
  
 These are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn.  I will never view headphones the same way after buying these.  I prefer the sound signature over the ad900x.  They're less fatiguing and sound great for all genres.
  
 Anyways, just felt like chiming in and thanking you for the suggestion on this badass headphone.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Chico, Have you used the x1 with the matrix m-stage? How does those 2 pairs?
> The M stage rate min output is 60ohm, will it harm the low 30ohm x1?


 
  
  
 They pair fine.
  
 What is the 60 ohm spec your talking about? 
  
 For music I still prefer the iCan over the M-stage because of the switches on it.


----------



## henhowc

I noticed with the PLYR1 that when I navigate the PS3 XMB...the initial first UI "click" noise when navigating the menus is very soft almost inaudible (couldn't hear it until I bumped up the volume). I also occasionally hear a brief popping/clicking noise when going from silence to audio. I can consistently reproduce this in DVDs by jumping between the different pages for scene selection. Bringing it up because it doesn't seem to happen on the XP400s or maybe its just not as audible. 
  
 Is this like due to changing of source or audio format or something like what people complain about with some audio receivers? A normal occurrence on some headphones?


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> They pair fine.
> 
> What is the 60 ohm spec your talking about?
> 
> For music I still prefer the iCan over the M-stage because of the switches on it.


 
 It says on the spec sheet, the lowest impedance output for m-stage is 60ohm. X1 is rated 30ohm, so will the m-stage higher output do any damage on the low imp x1.
 Still don't understand about this impedance rate relation between amp and cans, need to learn more...


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> It says on the spec sheet, the lowest impedance output for m-stage is 60ohm. X1 is rated 30ohm, so will the m-stage higher output do any damage on the low imp x1.
> Still don't understand about this impedance rate relation between amp and cans, need to learn more...


 
  
  
_"Output Power: 200mW/300Ω, *400mW/60Ω*__"_
  
 That's just telling you how much power it's putting into 60ohms.  That's not the lowest it will go.  You can plug IEMs into it if you want.
 The M-stage's actual  HP jack output impedance is 5 ohms.
  
 The M-stage is probably a little overkill for the X1 though.  They're not that hard to drive.  A think a cheaper amp would work fine with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gl0ry said:


> You gotta be kidding me...just got my ma900s!
> 
> These are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. I will never view headphones the same way after buying these. I prefer the sound signature over the ad900x. They're less fatiguing and sound great for all genres.
> 
> Anyways, just felt like chiming in and thanking you for the suggestion on this badass headphone.





Yay, another convert! 



henhowc said:


> I noticed with the PLYR1 that when I navigate the PS3 XMB...the initial first UI "click" noise when navigating the menus is very soft almost inaudible (couldn't hear it until I bumped up the volume). I also occasionally hear a brief popping/clicking noise when going from silence to audio. I can consistently reproduce this in DVDs by jumping between the different pages for scene selection. Bringing it up because it doesn't seem to happen on the XP400s or maybe its just not as audible.
> 
> Is this like due to changing of source or audio format or something like what people complain about with some audio receivers? A normal occurrence on some headphones?




That's somewhat normal, as it's jumping from different audio types. DVD menus tend to default back to PCM, while the movie itself plays in Dolby Digital.

Many devices do this, not just the PLYR. My old soundbar did this, quite loudly.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> _"Output Power: 200mW/300Ω, *400mW/60Ω*__"_
> 
> That's just telling you how much power it's putting into 60ohms.  That's not the lowest it will go.  You can plug IEMs into it if you want.
> The M-stage's actual  HP jack output impedance is 5 ohms.
> ...


 

 Thanks for the explanations.
 I must consider to buy stronger amps for my next cans, probably k712 or hd650.
 If I buy cheaper less strong amps now for X1, then I must buy another amp later. More money to spend.
 Too bad I can't find magni/modi seller here. I must wait for my brother from USA to visit me here next year.


----------



## d1ce

Don't know if it's been mentioned or not yet, but Plantronics has just released their new RIG headset + mixamp combo.
  
 Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/Plantronics-Stereo-Gaming-Headset-Xbox-360/dp/B00EV00N02
 Video Review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgDzFuDczKY
  
 I absolutely love the removable/replaceable cable and mic! Otherwise, I'm not to fond of the mixamp as I don't need it and would love to see the headset sold by itself.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've owned Plantronics headsets and I wasn't impressed with the sound. With this headset, once you take their mixer out of the loop I wouldn't expect it to be much better than the ones I've heard. The mixer piece is the key selling point of that system, designed to mix in other devices like cell phones and mp3 players. It's not a Mixamp alternative. There are other headsets that have detachable mics and there are certainly better sounding headphones than the Plantronics sets I've heard before. Heck, my KSC 75 blew away my old Gamecom headset and was more comfortable as well.


----------



## calpis

The eagle has landed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Initial impressions, plox

Granted, they're gonna be a radical departure from your Ultrasones. 

OMG classic 60gb PS3? So much want.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> Initial impressions, plox
> 
> Granted, they're gonna be a radical departure from your Ultrasones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's actually an 80gb MGS4 PS3, the one with software backwards compat. I have an original 60gb boxed up with a bum bluray laser tho.
  
 Initial Impression? I didn't know about the box full of popcorn and it was dumped all over my bed lol. I'm still getting accustomed to the sound but so far I like it 
  
 Also, notice anything different?


----------



## AxelCloris

calpis said:


> It's actually an 80gb MGS4 PS3, the one with software backwards compat. I have an original 60gb boxed up with a bum bluray laser tho.
> 
> Initial Impression? I didn't know about the box full of popcorn and it was dumped all over my bed lol. I'm still getting accustomed to the sound but so far I like it
> 
> Also, notice anything different?


 
  
 You have a lot of juice.


----------



## calpis

axelcloris said:


> You have a lot of juice.


 
  
 Could use some more too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What pads are those, and do they sound anywhere near the stock pads? If so, LEND ME THEM, PRETTY PLEASE! 

Sorry about the popcorn. I didn't have the patience to figure out how to put the MA900s back in their 'carton', so I left it out.


----------



## calpis

They're from my donor pair of vintage Beyer DT901's with a bum driver. Slightly increased soundstage at the cost of some of the bass. Probably because of the extra thickness of the pads. They're twice as thick but have a smaller inner diameter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bah... not willing to make those sacrifices.


----------



## calpis

lol, yeah, I wouldn't either.
  
 I kinda wonder if I can just compensate by just turning up the volume a bit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Part of me just wants to stuff the pads with memory foam or something. The pads are fine overall, they just lack density. It's almost like they aren't even pads, but a cloth that rests between the headphone and your head. I dunno why Sony went with such a thin pad. To be fair, the Steelseries Siberia pads are also really thin, but they retain their shape a lot better. If only they had a large diameter...


----------



## Fegefeuer

That premium pricing fever of flagships also caught AKG. I am sure that's a dissapointment to many K7xx fans.


----------



## Mackem

Anyone had experience with the DT770 Pros? I wasn't sure if they were uncomfortable on my jaw because they were new or what. The ear cups were absolute heaven on my ears, but I returned them because of the fact that they clamped the arms of my glasses to my head and sat a little uncomfortably on my jaw. The mids also sounded recessed to me but I have a Xonar DG sound card now (Not sure if it'll make a difference but hey). I just want a _really_ comfortable pair of full size headphones, preferably with velour pads that I can use for EDM / Pop music and games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you can stretch it, try acquiring the Fidelio X1. That's as good as it gets for what you want.

That Xonar card isn't the best for direct amping but it would do for now, and would be good for gaming. You could use it until you get something like an E17 which you can feed the optical signal directly to the E17 for all your needs.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm away for two days, and look what happens! Glad they arrived Calpis. I suppose I'd better collect my notes and write my MA900 mini-review tonight so that it won't overlap with your final thoughts before you send it along after getting used to it.

They are pretty worthy, huh? 

What are all those bottles in your pic, anyway? Juice? Eye drops? Arctic Silver? Stimpacks?


----------



## AxelCloris

Juice for the vaporizer in the bottom left of the photo.


----------



## Mackem

Anyone know what the PC 350 SE's are like?


----------



## PurpleAngel

mackem said:


> Anyone had experience with the DT770 Pros? I wasn't sure if they were uncomfortable on my jaw because they were new or what. The ear cups were absolute heaven on my ears, but I returned them because of the fact that they clamped the arms of my glasses to my head and sat a little uncomfortably on my jaw. The mids also sounded recessed to me but I have a Xonar DG sound card now (Not sure if it'll make a difference but hey). I just want a _really_ comfortable pair of full size headphones, preferably with velour pads that I can use for EDM / Pop music and games.


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?
 The headphone amplifier on the Xonar DG is ok for headphones up to 150-Ohm.
 Does it matter if the headphones are open of closed?
 Did you have a budget for headphones?
 The Premium version of the DT770s have a slightly lighter grip then the Pro version.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mackem said:


> Anyone know what the PC 350 SE's are like?


 

 Might be better if you can get the Senn PC360s.


----------



## Mackem

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?
> The headphone amplifier on the Xonar DG is ok for headphones up to 150-Ohm.
> Does it matter if the headphones are open of closed?
> Did you have a budget for headphones?
> The Premium version of the DT770s have a slightly lighter grip then the Pro version.


 
 I did disable the onboard audio yes.
 I need closed headphones, budget is around £150 GBP and the headphones must be available in the UK
  


purpleangel said:


> Might be better if you can get the Senn PC360s.


 
 I can't get open headphones / headset unfortunately


----------



## Hailin

I know the dt990 pads also fit on the Sonys and don't sound that bad either. What it is lacking I can't remember should have written my thoughts down. There is a reason I didn't keep them on just wish I could remember.


----------



## AxelCloris

Did some light gaming tonight with my 1964-Q's running directly off my Recon3D USB. I was quite impressed with the setup. I wasn't expecting that kind of reproduction from an IEM. I didn't do any extensive testing (just playing some Borderlands 2) but they did a nice job recreating the full dynamic range of the gameplay. Before now, I've never noticed the noise floor on the Recon3D. But with the quads I most certainly did when there was no in-game audio. However, it's a non-issue once I got into playing. I should compare it to the noise floor on my wireless Mixamp for S&Gs while I still have it.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Juice for the vaporizer in the bottom left of the photo.



Ah. I saw that, thought it was some sort of mechanic's tool... Maybe some mechanics use them anyway? Honestly I dunno what a vaporizer is... I'd guess it's either something for asthmatics or... recreation... I've never been in either of those worlds. Let's just be amused at whichever of my guesses was wrong and move along 

I was faced with the prospect of tomato soup (which bores me) with beans (which make me produce my own sort of vapors) and something spicy-for-the-sake-of-being-hot as the option for dinner (I love how my mom lately always prefaces dinner by saying "You're probably not going to like it"), SO instead I fell asleep on the couch. This is relevant because said nap ate up the time I'd meant to use to write an MA900 review.

Basically, the MA900 provides maximum sonic benefit for a gamer, while also being cost-efficient, not picky about your system, and comfortable for marathons. Paying more is a personal choice... The headband didn't agree with my head (a lot of headbands don't, my hair is thinning and has a ridge which often causes headband fatigue), and I prefer a slightly different sound signature (a little harder and with a little more treble sparkle), but honestly I can't tell you I hear details in my AKG K712 + class-A SET tube amp setup that I can't make out in the MA900 simply plugged into my music player or surround processor. For most people, the MA900 has clear advantages and pros, for which I highly recommend it.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Did some light gaming tonight with my 1964-Q's running directly off my Recon3D USB. I was quite impressed with the setup. I wasn't expecting that kind of reproduction from an IEM. I didn't do any extensive testing (just playing some Borderlands 2) but they did a nice job recreating the full dynamic range of the gameplay. Before now, I've never noticed the noise floor on the Recon3D. But with the quads I most certainly did when there was no in-game audio. However, it's a non-issue once I got into playing. I should compare it to the noise floor on my wireless Mixamp for S&Gs while I still have it.



Yeah, I noticed the noise floor on mine (at 90% volume) with the MA900 and external amp, just a little bit. The AKG's with their lower sensitivities dampen that down, but part of me wonders if my first Recon3D USB unit actually had a limiter or something on it's max amp output, which would explain a few other things. Btw, I just got an email from Aspyr that the Borderlands 2: GOTY edition was just released for Mac


----------



## Antero

I just got Sennheiser HD598 + Xonar STX. I come from a Razer Megalodon 7.1.  I gotta say i'm in love with these 598s but i'm kind of dissapointed at the fact that i cannot get the surround sound work in the way i like it. With the megalodon  i was able to pinpoint with 100% accuracy every single direction and even floors above me or underneath me but with the surround sound from the Xonar STX i'm having a lot of trouble replicating the same results. If something is above me it just sounds like it's actually infront me, if something is too close behind me it also sounds like it's infront of me. Anything infront of my FOV is incredibly accurate but i'm still having those problems i just said. Has anyone ever used Megalodons ? is there any way to replicate the Megalodon's surround sound?. I've played around with all the settings in the Xonar drivers and i still have issues. Would really appreciate some help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not just the STX panel. You also have to go to the generic sound devices and make sure the STX is set to 7.1.


----------



## Mackem

What headphones are the PC350 SE similar to?


----------



## funkdoc

The last days I looked for hours and hours on different sites and communities for a new headphone. Finally I found your thread and was like "ok this guy is awesome, this one is the thread I should have needed three days ago before starting my long reading sessions." Big props for your work, it's the best wrap up I could find in the whole web.
  
 My final conclusion is: *Philips Fidelio X1* or *AKG Q 701*.
 I can get the Q 701 for about *225 $*, the X1 will cost me about *260 $* or maybe 250 $.
  
 Which one would you choose? I will use them for 50% gaming and 50% music. I'll listen to everything from rock, hiphop, house or jazz. Because I already have tinnitus, I don't need something that will explode my head because of the bass. The headphone should have a good positioning and be comfy too for the long gaming sessions.
  
 So, X1 or Q 701? Sorry if this is already answered but my sister is just on holiday in New York and I can't read 1000+ sites in such a short time 
  
 Edit: My soundcard will be a ASUS Xonar Essence STX.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Btw, I just got an email from Aspyr that the Borderlands 2: GOTY edition was just released for Mac


 
  
 If you pick it up I have a couple low level characters that can run with you. Or a level 72+ Siren if you just want things to die wherever you roam. But staying on topic, I really enjoy the sound design in the game. Positioning is decent and the recording quality is excellent.


----------



## conquerator2

funkdoc said:


> The last days I looked for hours and hours on different sites and communities for a new headphone. Finally I found your thread and was like "ok this guy is awesome, this one is the thread I should have needed three days ago before starting my long reading sessions." Big props for your work, it's the best wrap up I could find in the whole web.
> 
> My final conclusion is: *Philips Fidelio X1* or *AKG Q 701*.
> I can get the Q 701 for about *225 $*, the X1 will cost me about *260 $* or maybe 250 $.
> ...


 
  
 X1.


----------



## Antero

mad lust envy said:


> It's not just the STX panel. You also have to go to the generic sound devices and make sure the STX is set to 7.1.


 

 and how do i do that


----------



## funkdoc

> X1.


 
  
 Any more opinions, maybe Mad Lust Envy himself who's heard both headphones


----------



## Change is Good

^X1


----------



## ethan7000

change is good said:


> ^X1


----------



## Evshrug

funkdoc said:


> Any more opinions, maybe Mad Lust Envy himself who's heard both headphones



I think Mad gave his view in his review. I have the Q701, I have not heard the X1, but I can tell you that the Q701 is a good and energetic headphone. It responds better and sounds less fatiguing with good amping; thankfully the Asus sound card you mentioned has pretty good amping and should be enough. The downside is that you'll probably end up wrapping or modding the headband for greater comfort. I've been using this headphone for over a year, I always loved games but music can now hold my attention for hours at a time, too, since I got these Q701. When I game in stereo with speakers these days, I feel handicapped compared to using the headphones.

The X1, according to Mad's review, has more bass and better comfort. The downsides are that the Earpads aren't user-replaceable. It also doesn't need amping as much as the Q701, but since you have the sound card anyway it won't be a big deal.

You'd probably be more than fine with either one. If I was you, I would just pick whichever one had the signature that sounded most appealing to me based on Mad's review, with the amping from your soundcard, either one would be a great value for your price budget.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

antero said:


> and how do i do that






As you can see, you right click on the speaker icon on the bottom right of the task bar, then click on playback devices, and then right click on the STX, and choose configure speakers. Set that to 7.1. You may also wanna make sure you right click again on the STX, hit properties, advanced, and change your default format to the highest bit and frequency, as if you haven't ever changed this, you've been using your STX at the standard resolution of 16bit/44.1 or 48khz.



This would've been nice to know when I first got the E17 ages ago, and left it at 16/48, when it was capable of 24/96...


----------



## LNCPapa

I would say X1 and I still own both pair of headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. I prefer the X1's sound over basically everything I've owned with the exception of the Annies, D7000, and LCD2. It has a broader appeal in sound signature. The Q701 is more polarizing, lacks severely in comfort next to the X1 (due to the Q's horrible bumps), and needs a very good amp to make them as good as they are. The X1 sounds great off practically anything.

The good thing about the Q701 is that you can buy some memory foam pads later on, and make them basically Annies... but then you still have to contend with the bumps of doom. Unless you feel comfortable in swapping the headband out with one off the K601/612/Annie/K712 (as well as paying for it), this isn't exactly easy.


----------



## Antero

mad lust envy said:


> As you can see, you right click on the speaker icon on the bottom right of the task bar, then click on playback devices, and then right click on the STX, and choose configure speakers. Set that to 7.1. You may also wanna make sure you right click again on the STX, hit properties, advanced, and change your default format to the highest bit and frequency, as if you haven't ever changed this, you've been using your STX at the standard resolution of 16bit/44.1 or 48khz.
> 
> 
> 
> This would've been nice to know when I first got the E17 ages ago, and left it at 16/48, when it was capable of 24/96...


 

 Ok i already did that through there but but all that does is just change the settings to what i already change in the xonar drivers. http://puu.sh/4OPQM.png


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you certain? So if you change your Xonar settings, it will also change the sound device settings? I ask because settings like that aren't always tied together.

So, say changing your Xonar settings to 2 channels, will the playback devices change to 2 channel as well?

I can't test it myself right now, since my U3 is at home...


----------



## Antero

mad lust envy said:


> Are you certain? So if you change your Xonar settings, it will also change the sound device settings? I ask because settings like that aren't always tied together.
> 
> So, say changing your Xonar settings to 2 channels, will the playback devices change to 2 channel as well?
> 
> I can't test it myself right now, since my U3 is at home...


 

 yes, see it for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2qT_baLFNQ


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> This would've been nice to know when I first got the E17 ages ago, and left it at 16/48, when it was capable of 24/96...


 


 Although that's only a benefit if you have actual 24/96 files.  The vast majority of music is 16/44.1 (meaning it came from a CD). 
  
 It's a good idea to set the bit depth to 24, since it won't negatively affect anything.  I believe in general it's recommend to the sample rate to whatever the majority of your audio is going to be though.  If you set it to a higher value you will needlessly incur sample rate conversion on everything, which means you will lose "bit-perfect" playback. 
  
 An easier option is to use WASAPI exclusive mode where you get automatic sample rate switching so that the source file is sent to the DAC with no conversion (meaning you get bit-perfect playback for every file - even if they are of different sample rates).  I use MusicBee and it does this.  I tested it using my HRT streamer and I could see the sample rate lights on the DAC switching as a sent it different sample rate audio files via music bee in WASAPI mode.
  
  
 ...Nice wallpaper btw


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The benefit with 24bit is the oversampling, so if you for example lower the PC volume (and not the amp volume), you're not losing bit information until you pass a certain volume point. Some people like to control their volume with the PC control (sometimes it's just easier), so having some headroom without losing sound quality is a good thing indeed. Doing the same with 16bit audio, you're losing fidelity...


This is a definite plus of Schiit Magni owners with sensitive headphones, as the Magni has a bit too much gain, and leaving Pc volume at 100% (like typically wanted) gives almost no headroom to adjust volume with the Magni before it gets too loud. Lowering PC volume to say something like 75% gives the magni volume control some play, and you won't lose fidelity, due to the oversampling.

Of course, some dacs due oversampling better than others. I believe both Audio Gd and Fiio both state to leave it at the highest possible rate the dacs support, because that's how they designed them to work at their best.

Ironically, my Compass 2 had problems running in 32bit/192 9some skipping and glitching when audio files started), and I had to lower it to 24/96 before the problems went away.

I have to try that Wasapi auto switching sometime.


----------



## chicolom

Oversampling technically deals with the sample rate, not the bit depth. 
  
 Setting the bit depth to 24 is good because the padded zeros in between 16 and 24 bit give you headroom to lower the volume digitally without losing resolution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I was referring to. Wrong terms. Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just realized, thd thread has passed 1 million views!

I'm sure I'm 900,000 of them, lol.


----------



## widdyjudas

antero said:


> Ok i already did that through there but but all that does is just change the settings to what i already change in the xonar drivers. http://puu.sh/4OPQM.png



Thanks for mentioning this. I will never notice this setting if you dont put it out.
I think your thread is one of the most interesting cans comparison in headfi, so you deserve the million views...


----------



## funkdoc

evshrug said:


> You'd probably be more than fine with either one. If I was you, I would just pick whichever one had the signature that sounded most appealing to me based on Mad's review, with the amping from your soundcard, either one would be a great value for your price budget.


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Agreed. I prefer the X1's sound over basically everything I've owned with the exception of the Annies, D7000, and LCD2. It has a broader appeal in sound signature. The Q701 is more polarizing, lacks severely in comfort next to the X1 (due to the Q's horrible bumps), and needs a very good amp to make them as good as they are. The X1 sounds great off practically anything.
> 
> The good thing about the Q701 is that you can buy some memory foam pads later on, and make them basically Annies... but then you still have to contend with the bumps of doom. Unless you feel comfortable in swapping the headband out with one off the K601/612/Annie/K712 (as well as paying for it), this isn't exactly easy.


 
  
  
 I think I'll go for the X1. Your review matches my imaginings nearly perfect. Maybe I want to have a little more detailed sound like the Q 701. But new pads and a better head-band will cost me a lot of money in Germany and I have to mod the headphone. In such a price class I don't want to mod anything. I want a headphone that is as good as it gets in his price class, and the X1 will have this comfort out of the box.
  
 The only point I'm lacking is the positioning of the X1 in gaming and the overall detail in the sound. Is the X1 as good as the Q 701 in the positioning? Remember I don't want to use it only for gaming, my pro gaming time is over  But a good positioning should be nice....
 And overall, the Q 701 is definitely the winner when it comes to details right? Or will a cable swap on the X1 change this judging dramatically?
  
 Oh boy, I can't decide....


----------



## Evshrug

I wouldn't count on cable swaps to do anything dramatic unless your old cable was broken.

You don't HAVE to buy new pads, I like both kinds fine, and I just wrapped my headband. Cheap. Your STX has a decent amp (with like a 23 Ohm output impedance or something). Either one would be fine in your setup, if you want stronger mid bass get the X1.

The hardest thing to do, when reviewing or contrasting headphones, is to avoid hyperbole. You can rest assured, you'll enjoy either one, small differences between them that we tend to blow out of proportion simply because most hi-fi headphones are within a narrow range of performance. So long as you're not listening to a Bose...

Anyways, enjoy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 and Q701 sound nothing alike... just saying. The X1 is quits a bit more fun oriented, with mid bass coloration and bloom. The Q is considerably more balanced, and polite. 

The STX has a 10 ohm output impedance. The Xonar DG and U3 are the ones with 23.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 and Q701 sound nothing alike... just saying. The X1 is a lot more fun, the Q701 is a lot more serious.
> 
> Amd the STX has a 10 ohm output impedance. The Xonar DG and U3 are the ones with 23.


 
  
 If he can just save $100 more bucks (give or take) I'd advise him to just get the K712. Like the Annie, it is a great all rounder and actually _does have a little_ more bass impact...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that'd be my choice if I want an all rounder, and didn't mind less comfort, and a sonic improvement compared to the MA900.

If the X1 had considerably less mid bass... I'd consider it quite neutral sounding. Its that bass tilt that keeps it from being that.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, that'd be my choice if I want an all rounder, and didn't mind less comfort, and a sonic improvement compared to the MA900.


 
  
 There it is! How could we forget and why aren't we suggesting it??? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 He doesn't need to save any more money... just get the MA900 and pocket what's left over.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the MA900 won't stack up to the Q701 and X1 overall (though those two have their colorations that can be polarizing, while the MA900 is just well balanced overall with no real humps other than a slight mid bass hump). It's just an alternative for those with less funds, and/or want the most comfort/least weight possible.

You all already know how much I love the MA900, but if sound quality is top priority, both the Q and X are better. The X1 in particular is quite comfortable even compared to the MA900, though a little more stuffy and quite a bit heavier. The Q has dem bumpz.


----------



## Change is Good

True, but even though its not technically on par with those two it still is a great option for him... a_ better_ option, personally, if it was up to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree. I was gonna recommend the MA900 which I find more fun than the Q, and more balanced than the X1, and more comfortable than both. It'd also pair up well with the STX due to it not being affected by the output impedance. Just, if he's trying to squeeze as much SQ as he can for his money, the other two are technically better, given a few tradeoffs (loose bass on the X1, less fun+dat upper mid peak on the Q).

I'd just personally recommend saving up for the K712/Annies, as you get the best balance of everything, if you feel the MA900 might not be up to task.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'd just personally recommend saving up for the K712/Annies, as you get the best balance of everything, if you feel the MA900 might not be up to task.


 
  
 *Guilty as charged*
  
 That's what I did... lol


----------



## funkdoc

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is quits a bit more fun oriented, with mid bass coloration and bloom. The Q is considerably more balanced, and polite.


 
  
 Actually, I have the problem that I don't know what will sounds better for me 
  


evshrug said:


> The hardest thing to do, when reviewing or contrasting headphones, is to avoid hyperbole.


 
  
 ...yes you are right. But there are definitely differences between the X1 and the Q 701. So I'm just trying the to get the one which is the perfect cut for me.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Just, if he's trying to squeeze as much SQ as he can for his money, the other two are technically better, given a few tradeoffs (loose bass on the X1, less fun+dat upper mid peak on the Q).
> 
> I'd just personally recommend saving up for the K712/Annies, as you get the best balance of everything, if you feel the MA900 might not be up to task.


 
  
 Maybe I can get the foam pads from the Annie Version around christmas because a friend of mine is coming through Germany. I think it will cost me about 36$ for each pad? Here in Germany I'll pay twice the prize for that!
  
 So maybe I should get the Q 701 and update them later on with the foam pads from the Annies? Maybe a headband too...
  
 An other idea is to get the X1 and the Q 701 side by side? I can sell the Q's in Germany for at least the price my sister will pay in the USA. So I don't have to step on your nervs any more and can really get the best sounding headphone for me 
  
 Thank your very much for your help!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good luck, and I hope whatever you get suits you.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, that'd be my choice if I want an all rounder, and didn't mind less comfort, and a sonic improvement compared to the MA900.
> 
> If the X1 had considerably less mid bass... I'd consider it quite neutral sounding. Its that bass tilt that keeps it from being that.



What's more comfortable about the X1? Better heat ventilation or something? (Again, I haven't tried the X1 myself, funkdoc)

Btw, I think the MA900 has slightly better imaging for the sensation of surround while gaming. You know, just to make the choice easier 

And when I say the differences are small, I mean they are noticeable and would sway preferences, but the difference isn't like night and day (Beiber will still sound like a kid, etc)


----------



## funkdoc

I think one of the two headphones will suit my claims.
  
 If it'll be the Q and I want new pads, do they cost around 36$ per pad? Anyone got dealership where to find them?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> What's more comfortable about the X1? Better heat ventilation or something?


 
  
 The extra padding under the headband...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, the headband padding on the X1 is infinitely superior than the Q701's bumps of doom. The X1's headband is probably my favorite outside of the Stax SR407 and MadDog comfort strap headbands.

I do prefer the Q701's pads over the X1 though. It breathes easier. I actually prefer their firmness over even the Annie's memory foam, which, like the X1, gets a little hotter. Overall though, I'll take the X1/Annie's pads with better headband, than the Q's better pads, and horrible headband.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> The extra padding under the headband...







mad lust envy said:


> Lol, the headband padding on the X1 is infinitely superior than the Q701's bumps of doom. The X1's headband is probably my favorite outside of the Stax SR407 and MadDog comfort strap headbands.
> 
> I do prefer the Q701's pads over the X1 though. It breathes easier. I actually prefer their firmness over even the Annie's memory foam, which, like the X1, gets a little hotter. Overall though, I'll take the X1/Annie's pads with better headband, than the Q's better pads, and horrible headband.




Where I quoted you, you said the X1 was more comfortable than the K712... I was wondering if you knew something I didn't. With the newer K712 not having headband bumps, my only comfort gripe was solved.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Huh? Did I say that? I was referring the K712/Annie compare to the MA900, which I find more comfortable than everything else that isn't the KSC75.

And I do find the X1 more comfortable than the Annie (and I assume the K712), because the padding is better than than the padless headband on those AKGs. The pads are similar, however. Memory foam, that heat up just a little.


----------



## Skipshrike

X1 is very comfortable. However, I can see the velour pads causing some heat issues in the warming months if your room is hot. Another issue some people have is that the felt(?) speaker covering can vibrate against your ears.
  
 All that being said--I've been able to wear it for long periods of time with no discomfort.
  
 The K712 pro surprised me...I thought that unpadded leather strap would be uncomfortable. It's not.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Hi lately I've been thinkng of upgrading from my HD558's and I wanted to know whats a good step up from them.
For what kinda sound I'm looking for I'm thinking of ether a more bassy sound (Since I listen to alot of high energy songs like rock metal and techno) or maybe something like my 558s only better I hear the AKG Q701's fit the latter.

Velour is a MUST since useing the HD 558s I can never go back to anything else.
I'm willing to pay $200 to $250. thank in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like the X1. The HD558 is a really solid pair of cans. I really like them. You might have to wait until they either go back doen to around $250, or buy them used.


----------



## xero404

Hd598s are on sale for 150 at frys electronics if you have one local. It's on the newspaper ad. I'd grab a pair myself if I already didn't have the x1s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find the 598 less pleasing than the 558... I wouldn't consider it an upgrade, more of a sidegrade with more mids, but similar sound otherwise. The 558 is more balanced to me, though slightly less detailed. It's easier to listen to the 558.


----------



## miceblue

Ew Mikasa avatar. >:-[


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Not interested in the 598's since I hear there not that diffrent from the 558's.
And I do find the 558's awesome, they have served me well for music and gaming but I feel its time for something new. (Why do I have a feelling this is going to be a bad habit)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> Ew Mikasa avatar. >:-[




That's something I never expected to hear about Mikasa. Ever.


----------



## kenshinhimura

miceblue said:


> Ew Mikasa avatar. >:-[


 

 =p no love for attack on titan?


----------



## miceblue

Mikasa: Eren.
 Eren: Don't follow me.
 Mikasa: Eren.
  
 *Eren gets attacked*
 Mikasa: Eren!
  
 *Eren riding in cart*
 Mikasa: Eren!
  
 *Eren does something*
 Mikasa: Eren.
  
 In the last episode, of the some 20 words she probably said, at least half of them were "Eren." I mean seriously.....just...****. -_-
  
 The anime as a whole was fine. Just that most of the characters are just plain dumb.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

She's in love with him. It's understandable. And she's the most badass of characters...


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Reading your review on the K1 and while they sound (and look) awesome t'm pretty worried about the pads not being replaceable since I notice the pads on my 558's get really dirty after awhile.

EDIT: Is it bad that I never watched attack on titan?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not really. AOT has the problem of DRAGGING FOR FREAKING EVER.

I fully expect them to make a few movies condensing the show into just the important parts. It is dreadfully slow as is. The show was a bit of a let down.

It could'vbe honestly been like 12 episodes, and we wouldn't have missed a thing.


----------



## miceblue

Nuh, uh. Sexy Levi is the most badass.

  


Spoiler: Possible Attack on Titan spoiler






  
 That looks mighty fancy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Levi is badass number 2. The show would've been much more interesting if it were about him. I CANNOT STAND EREN. Though I just tend to dislike male leads. They're always so damn generic, with some secret potential...


----------



## miceblue

Aww yesss. Game of the year right here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a feeling that game is gonna be mediocre with a LOT of repetition. As much as an AOT game should be awesome... I don't see that being any good.


----------



## miceblue

Yeah I think it'll be a flop.
 Then there's this......
 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans

  
 Not Attack on Titan, not Project Phoenix. The Phoenix Project: City of Titans.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LOL, THAT SOUNDS SO CONFUSING.


----------



## kenshinhimura

looks interesting, but it sure could be repetitive. i would like to see how it looks on either the xbox or playstation. and mikasa does just say eren half the time, but she puts a whoopin in fight mode. =)


----------



## widdyjudas

After changing my laptop setting to 24/96 and allowing winamp to put out 24bit sound (just know this setting too), I didn't hear any different from before. Maybe its just my ear is not sensitive enough...


----------



## miceblue

I doubt most people can hear a difference. Just like lossless vs lossy, the benefits are probably too small for most people to distinguish.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mad lust envy said:


> I find the 598 less pleasing than the 558... I wouldn't consider it an upgrade, more of a sidegrade with more mids, but similar sound otherwise. The 558 is more balanced to me, though slightly less detailed. It's easier to listen to the 558.


 

 Did you remove the black rubber tape from inside the cups of the HD558?


----------



## Change is Good

Looks like my iCan just died on me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
  
 Edit: Got it to work after leaving it unplugged for a couple minutes. It's odd because I had _just_ plugged it in and was listening for about an hour... so it couldn't of overheated.
  
 Chico, what is it that happened to yours? When it went dead the light would come on for a slight second when plugging in the power cord but dead right after.


----------



## Evshrug

^well that's an unwelcome surprise! Glad it's working for you mow, tho.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Looks like my iCan just died on me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It sounds like yours could be having the same problem mine had. 
  
 Sometimes I would plug mine in and the lights on top would flicker or flash and then it wouldn't power on.  It did this very sparingly at first, and if I unplugged it and replugged it it would work after that.  After a while it would do it more and more often, until finally it would do it every time I tried to power on and was essentially dead.
  
 The iFi support said the problem was likely that power supply had died. They offered to send a replacement PSU, but instead I sent my whole unit back.  I wouldn't recommend doing that though, as it took two weeks for a replacement to come back, and the replacement unit was also defective 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  It had a different problem where it made a high pitched noise through the headphones.  I had to send the 2nd one back as well.  Another two weeks went by and I eventually got a 3rd replacement.  This one worked OK so I kept it, and that's the one I'm using now.  I'm also using a little outlet switch now so I can power it ON/OFF easier and also in case that's a better way than pulling the plug out so much.
  
  
 If yours starts to fail more and more often, it will probably die like mine did.  If that happens I would recommend contacting them and just having them send you a replacement power supply, as that should fix it and it's a lot easier and quicker than what I did.


----------



## Evshrug

^ hooray for experience and vicarious recommendations!


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> It sounds like yours could be having the same problem mine had.
> 
> Sometimes I would plug mine in and the lights on top would flicker or flash and then it wouldn't power on.  It did this very sparingly at first, and if I unplugged it and replugged it it would work after that.  After a while it would do it more and more often, until finally it would do it every time I tried to power on and was essentially dead.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think I may just send in the whole unit because the power entry on the back is slightly loose (it can be moved up and down _very_ slightly); I would think from plugging it in and out so often without care. Even if it takes two weeks I would rather be safe than sorry.
  
 I'll email them as soon as it happens, again... *hoping that it doesn't*


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> I think I may just send in the whole unit because the power entry on the back is slightly loose (it can be moved up and down _very_ slightly); I would think from plugging it in and out so often without care. Even if it takes two weeks I would rather be safe than sorry.
> 
> I'll email them as soon as it happens, again... *hoping that it doesn't*


 
  
 That's fine.  It might take a month though, like it did with me :\  Where did you buy yours from?
  
 You should pick up one of those switchable outlets if you want to save wear and tear on the jack.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> That's fine.  It might take a month though, like it did with me :\  Where did you buy yours from?
> 
> You should pick up one of those switchable outlets if you want to save wear and tear on the jack.


 
  
 Picked it up from Avatar Acoustics and fulfilled by Amazon about three months ago. Their now sold out but still have iDACs in stock, I see...
  
http://www.amazon.com/iDAC-Definition-Asynchronous-Digital-Converter/dp/B00AU06KSQ
  
 Got a link to one of those outlets?


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Picked it up from Avatar Acoustics and fulfilled by Amazon about three months ago. Their now sold out but still have iDACs in stock, I see...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/iDAC-Definition-Asynchronous-Digital-Converter/dp/B00AU06KSQ
> 
> Got a link to one of those outlets?


 
  
 Avatar Acoustics is where my replacement units came from so that should be fine.
  
 I picked up the switchable outlet from walmart, so you might check locally first.
 Otherwise, here's some:
 http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F7C016q-Conserve-Power-Switch/dp/B005MYN3OO/ref=pd_cp_pc_0
 http://www.amazon.com/52149-Handy-Switch-Grounded-White/dp/B002DNGAZ6/ref=pd_cp_pc_3
 http://www.amazon.com/Power-Management-QVS-Single-Port-Adapter-Switch/dp/B004ZT8UZ4/ref=sr_1_13?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1381725484&sr=1-13&keywords=switchable+outlet


----------



## ZenErik

Has there been any new info on the ADG1? Thinking about getting one.


----------



## chicolom

zenerik said:


> Has there been any new info on the ADG1? Thinking about getting one.


 
  
 I think they're going to be released in December.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I think I'm gonna pass on the X1, as awesome as they look the fact that you can't replace the earpads is a major turn off for me.
Any other headphones you guys would suggest?


----------



## widdyjudas

You can wait for the x1 mk2. They said philips will improve the hi and add replaceable pads.
Although you might wait till next year.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I guess I can wait untill then since a new pair of cans is not that high of a priority.(a new phone and desktop are at the moment)
For now I'll just buy a new set of earpads for my 558's.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> You can wait for the x1 mk2. They said *philips will improve the hi *and add replaceable pads.
> Although you might wait till next year.


 
  
  
 I think you're getting a little ahead of things.
  


ethan7000 said:


> Folks from *Philips say they're happy with the X1's sound*, but are _considering a revision_ with...replaceable pads!!


 


ethan7000 said:


> By the way it sounded there will not be an X2, just an X1 revision. Though they mentioned the treble being the only area they weren't fully satisfied with - but they said that improving it would price it out of where they want it, securely in mid-fi.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

As long as the revision has replaceable pads then I'm a happy camper.


----------



## widdyjudas

Chico, i swear i read it somewhere on the x1 thread that philips will improve the hi... 
You can search it or maybe i'm just wrong...
Btw how is the t90 and k712 so far? I'm surprised you already planning a new hifi cans already. Wished i got more income to afford it...


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Chico, i swear* i read it somewhere on the x1 thread that philips will improve the hi...*
> You can search it or maybe i'm just wrong...


 
  
 Look at the second quote above.  I'm pretty sure that's the only mention of it.
  
_"Though they mentioned the treble being the only area they weren't fully satisfied with - but they said that improving it would price it out of where they want it, securely in mid-fi."_


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> Look at the second quote above.  I'm pretty sure that's the only mention of it.
> 
> _"Though they mentioned the treble being the only area they weren't fully satisfied with - but they said that improving it would price it out of where they want it, securely in mid-fi."_


 
 Ah... OK then. Again... its my English understanding problem...
 Seeing how the X1 perform, I wished Philips can pursue more high end Mid-fi cans, maybe Z1... Just daydreaming.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Is the headband cushion on the 558 replaceable? It's a little loose in the middle and is starting to wear out.

On another note I'm suprized how long I used these, over a year now and they still work.(give them props for build quality)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe you can probably rip it off and stick on a new one... as I believe they're glued on... though, not fully certain.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

It looks like its glue. You know where i can buy a spare set?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You probably have to go to the Sennheiser website and order the part. Shouldn't be expensive.


----------



## davisman

This guide is truly wonderful. It first lead me to the sens hd598 and recently to the k702 annies. Both are fantastic. 
  
 I have a question, is it possible to remove the hiss from mixamps? I used to be only a pc gamer, but since I started console gaming with some friends, I picked up a mixamp. But I have been pretty let down with its performance compared to my pc setup. 
  
 What I was thinking, maybe using the mixamp as a preamp might remove the hiss? But before I spend the money I wanted to see if anybody has experience with that setup.


----------



## mbyrnes

Are you using an amp with the Annies? If not you are really missing out. I set my mixamp volume to 60%-70% and my Schiit Audio Magni I use for volume control. Putting the amp in the mix really changes the sound of the Annies.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So Chicolom,
  
 after you cleansed your inventory (which you already plan to start of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ): K812 or HD 800?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I also notice hiss when I use my 558's with the mixamp mostly when I turn the volume nob, also the sound switches from left to right when I do though maybe I have a bad module.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

davisman said:


> This guide is truly wonderful. It first lead me to the sens hd598 and recently to the k702 annies. Both are fantastic.
> 
> I have a question, is it possible to remove the hiss from mixamps? I used to be only a pc gamer, but since I started console gaming with some friends, I picked up a mixamp. But I have been pretty let down with its performance compared to my pc setup.
> 
> What I was thinking, maybe using the mixamp as a preamp might remove the hiss? But before I spend the money I wanted to see if anybody has experience with that setup.




No, adding another amp won't remove the hiss, because it's embedded into the signal, and it's not by volume. You can for example, set the Mixamp to 50%, then adjust to your desired volume level with the external amp, and you'll have the same hiss as if you had the Mixamp at 100%, and lowered the volume on the external amp. Tried this various times, with diferent amps, and different Mixamps. The hiss would still remain the same once I got to my desired volume level, regardless of which amp was doing the most work.

The only reason you may have to lower the Mixamp is if you get clipping at 100%. On my new Mixamp, I have to have it set at around 70%, because it sounds like a mess if I go higher. I didn't have that problem with my older wired Mixamps.

You could try and find a first gen Mixamp which had the least amount of hiss out of all the Mixamps, but not USB function (other than to power the device). That means no voice chat off the PS3. The second gen (Mixamp Pro aka 2011 model) has slightly more hiss, but is still pretty quiet. The 5.8 and 2013 Mixamps are the ones with the most hiss.


----------



## davisman

mbyrnes said:


> Are you using an amp with the Annies? If not you are really missing out. I set my mixamp volume to 60%-70% and my Schiit Audio Magni I use for volume control. Putting the amp in the mix really changes the sound of the Annies.


 
 No, I am using the annies for my pc setup(xonar essence stx). I am testing some denon d600s right now with the mixamp, I also still have the senn hd598s for it. 
  
 But with that setup you have, do you have hiss? I have traced the source of the hiss down to the power cable for the mixamp. I have tried multiple cables, and multiple power sources and some are better than others but the hiss is definitely still there.


----------



## davisman

I may have answered my own question, but I would still like to hear some input from others who use the mixamp as a preamp. 
  
 I just plugged up my ibasso d12 and I was able to get the hiss down to an almost inaudible level. I think if I had a better amp, I could get the volume loud enough without turning the mixamp past 50% volume to eliminate the hiss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And I'm trying to tell you, once you go back to the loudness you normally play as, the hiss will be as you remembered. 


I use my Mixamp as a pre-amp to many other amps throughout my entire time of using the Mixamp. Even now, I use it as a preamp to my E17. Before that, it was a pre-amp to my E12, Compass 2, SA-31, Fiio E9k, Magni... all still got to the same hiss level as the Mixamp alone once you set to the same exact decibel level.

I'm going off various testing, not expectations or anything. Unless you have a miracle Mixamp, even setting the Mixamp to 25%, and your external amp to a really high level, the hiss will remain the same...*once you get to the same decibel as when the Mixamp reaches hissy levels on it's own.* The hiss is not tied to the volume. It's embedded in the Mixamp signal.

This is my... 5th Mixamp. I have plenty of experience with it, and how the hiss works, even with another amp.


----------



## davisman

Sorry, for some reason your original post did not show for me. Thats disheartening, but I guess I will have to live with it. 
  
 Thanks for your responses.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only way to reduce the hiss, is to have a headphone with high impedance or low sensitivity, that mitigates hiss. Like the AKGs, Beyerdynamics, and even low efficiency planars like the HE-4.


If it's that much of a problem (I honestly don't see why, when you're gonna be too busy paying attention to other sounds to focus on hiss), you could get yourself a Creative Recon USB. It uses THX Tru Studio instead of Dolby Headphone, but it works just like the Mixamp, and has basically no audible hiss.


----------



## davisman

Well its not a huge deal, but its there ;P. 
  
 Do you think that the hiss is generated by the power cable? Because I think I was able to get better results with different power sources.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think so, as I've used many cables and all had plenty of hiss. I'm pretty certain it's tied to the less than stellar amp section.

I can guarantee you, you aren't gonna effectively reduce the hiss enough for it to be a non-issue if it's bothering you now. There is no magical fix to it. It's there, and it's in every Mixamp.


----------



## davisman

I guess my problem is that I was expecting the same level of performance I get from the xonar essence stx sound card. While its meant more for music, it still does a superb job of virtual surround. 
  
 I was watching The Lone Ranger digital copy last night with the annies and it was pretty amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX is one hell of a soundcard that is many times better than the Mixamp. Not comparable at all, lol. Hell, the STX has an amp section basically identical to the Fiio E9, which is exponentially more powerful than the crappy amp in the Mixamp. It also has an audiophile grade internal DAC. 

Yeah, I think if you want that level of performance from an external device, you'll have to hunt for older Harmin Kardon or Marantz receivers that have Dolby Headphone. I had a Marantz SR5002 myself, until it died on me. It was a beast.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> So Chicolom,
> 
> after you cleansed your inventory (which you already plan to start of course
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good question.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

  
 It's hard to gauge what the K812 will sound like as I've only seen about 2.5 impressions on it so far.
  
 I'm _speculating _that the HD800 will be a bit more detailed and will have a better soundstage, where the K812 will be a bit more "musical" in signature and still have an excellent soundstage (but not quite as good as the HD800).  It may be worth giving up the HD800's soundstage advantage if the K812 still has an excellent soundstage but comes with a more pleasing signature, but it's hard to say this early.  I'll have to wait on more HD800 vs K812 impressions to surface.
  
 Comfort looks to be fine on both.  I've already worn HD800 and it has the deepest cups I've ever seen.   I don't think I will mind the leather pads too much since the K812 cups are so deep and open. 
  
 Maybe the K812 won't require me to mess with my DAC and AMP like the HD800 would and will sound better "out of the box", which could be a good thing.


----------



## Evshrug

davisman said:


> This guide is truly wonderful. It first lead me to the sens hd598 and recently to the k702 annies. Both are fantastic.
> 
> I have a question, is it possible to remove the hiss from mixamps? I used to be only a pc gamer, but since I started console gaming with some friends, I picked up a mixamp. But I have been pretty let down with its performance compared to my pc setup.
> 
> What I was thinking, maybe using the mixamp as a preamp might remove the hiss? But before I spend the money I wanted to see if anybody has experience with that setup.



 Pre-amping is all I do, I don't have audible hiss with either of my AKGs and either my tube amp or E12. It doesn't add extra hiss, unless the amp is itself hissy. I think you'll hear an improvement to the sensation of surround too, once you power amp your headphone 

Feel confident 

Edit: then again, I use a Recon3D USB and/or a DSS. I haven't tried a mixamp. In general, using an external amp has been ideal for me.

Mad,
Woah. You know why  but while I have your attention, how's the Mixamp vs DSS hiss? Also, I started typing this post before the second page started loading, so I missed your responses till now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hence why I said...



> The only way to reduce the hiss, is to have a headphone with high impedance or low sensitivity, that mitigates hiss. Like the AKGs, Beyerdynamics, and even low efficiency planars like the HE-4.




Just saying. 

The AKGs in question being mainly the standard K702, K701, Q701, and the Beyers being the 250/600ohm Beyers.

Anything remotely sensitive is more than likely not going to mitigate the Mixamp's hiss.


----------



## chicolom

davisman said:


> I have a question, is it possible to remove the hiss from mixamps?
> 
> What I was thinking, maybe using the mixamp as a preamp might remove the hiss? But before I spend the money I wanted to see if anybody has experience with that setup.


 
  


davisman said:


> No, I am using the annies for my pc setup(xonar essence stx). I am testing some denon d600s right now with the mixamp, I also still have the senn hd598s for it.
> 
> But with that setup you have, do you have hiss? I have traced the source of the hiss down to the power cable for the mixamp. I have tried multiple cables, and multiple power sources and some are better than others but the hiss is definitely still there.


 
  
  
 Which mixamp are you using? 
  
 I believe the latest mixamp is somewhat hissy, not sure if it's more or less than the mixamp 5.8.   The 2011 mixamp is pretty quiet and has the best SnR of the bunch.  The Ear Force DSS actually has less hiss than than the mixamp 5.8 when you use it as a preamp.  I don't know why, but the mixamp 5.8 has more hiss when you turn them both up to the same loud level (even though at low volumes the DSS has more hiss).  So the DSS makes a cleaner _preamp _than the mixamp 5.8 (not sure about the 2013 mixamp).  I tested this several times and have owned multiple DSSes.  It seems that the amount of hiss at equivalent high volumes is different between them. 
  
  
 If you can, I would preamp the Anniversaries regardless.  With a decent desktop amp you will get a more expansive soundstage over running straight from the mixamp.  Both my iCan and M-stage expand the soundstage out farther.  The M-stage in particular does an especially good job at this, and the effect is definitely noticeable and appreciated.  Even my X1s benefit from it and get a soundstage boost from preamping to the M-stage.
  
  
 You shouldn't be getting much hiss with the Anniversaries anyways, as they're insensitive enough to do a pretty good job of burying it.   Are you saying when you switch out the USB cable the hiss changes?  If so, that' probably electrical hum or buzz, not hiss.  Try putting batteries in it and testing it that way (which will eliminate all possible buzz or hum from a noisy USB power source).


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Looks like it would be a good idea to invest in a sound card for PC gaming then huh?


----------



## Mitchb2020

Im in love with my x1s 
Everything i hoped for, and so comfy!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Looks like it would be a good idea to invest in a sound card for PC gaming then huh?




Yes... unless you have a good AVR, a soundcard makes more sense than an external device like the Mixamp.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

mad lust envy said:


> Yes... unless you have a good AVR, a soundcard makes more sense than an external device like the Mixamp.


AVR whats that?


----------



## davisman

Ok so I just tested what you mention earlier about higher impedance cans, and you are absolutely correct. I tested 3 different headphones akg 702 annies, senn hd 598s, and the denon d600s. In that order, they had the least amount of hiss.
  
 Since Im foolish, I probably will try to track down an audio reciever with a dolby headphone jack.


----------



## kenshinhimura

avr is most likely audio/video receiver, like a home theater receiver. think Denon, Yamaha, Marantz home theater receivers that do surround sound.


----------



## designbykai

I think MLE should try and review some Fostex TH600s for gaming 

I got them a couple weeks ago and they are amazing, and as most people say they're upgraded d7000s and 90% of th900 sound for half the price I think you'd dig em.

So comfy too, super light (lighter than th900) can wear em for hours and not even notice them being there. The soundstage is amazing, better than a lot of open cans I've heard, and great positioning for gaming. Been playing Gta5 and loving it; straight out of the Audio engine d1, even half pot is almost ear bleedingly loud.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried th600 with an Astro mixamp as I'm curious about this Dolby headphone business. I'd probably run it into an E17 if need be. Tbh I dont really see the need for Dolby hp tho it the D1 staging with these cans works so well for me as-is. Would positional accuracy really be that much better? 

I guess the mic mixing is a big bonus though, trying to work out what mic to get too for ps3/ps4 if any.. USB mic that I use on PC might do the job..

Anyway I need to try the th600 out with some PC fps now.. I wonder if BF4 will have better audio than BF3's horrible in game audio muddled positioning, might try the demo..


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> AVR whats that?




Alien Versus Redditor. 
So hard to find a good one.


----------



## widdyjudas

Btw on the front page, there will be a new planar magnetic cans from OPPO. Its also chinese like Hifiman.
 I wonder how will they sound and perform on gaming compared to Hifiman.
 However, Oppo in China is mainly making mobile phones. Audio compared to Hifiman, Oppo is less known. However they do have MP3 player.


----------



## Fegefeuer

A planar from Fostex is coming as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Supposedly the planar from Fostex is using the same drivers as the T50RP. Probably an effort to nab some sales from MrSpeakers...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Who's the source?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's been mentioned various times on the Alpha Dog thread, IIRC.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, let's wait for Fostex to give more details. Too much hype right now with the AD that gets into peoples heads, though I wish and want Dan to have the best success. 
  


designbykai said:


> I think MLE should try and review some Fostex TH600s for gaming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
 If the TH-600 is anywhere near the TH-900 then it gets my definite recommendation for gaming. I actually rate the TH-900 right now as the best headphone you can get for both worlds. While the HD 800 is technically a feat it's less exciting for music and can only best the Fostex in pure multiplayer, and that's nitpicking the Fostex at a very high level.
  
 I am in love with this headphone. Yesterday I finished MoH: WF. While mediocre the sound quality is better than most games and with the new gen the future can only be brighter. It was very entertaining and helped me enjoy the game despite it's many shortcomings.


----------



## ZenErik

Having a hard time finding comparisons. Anyone have an opinion on the A2000X? And can anyone compare it to some of my favorites? The AD2000X, W5000, and AD2000. Thanks!


----------



## sadboy

kenshinhimura said:


> =p no love for attack on titan?


 
 How gory is Attack on Titan?


----------



## Dankdafied

Incredible OP. Ty so much for this.

I'd been using a40's for years until my new cat chewed the cord. Mine are old enough that they don't make the replacement anymore. I ordered a used cord off ebay but in the meantime I've been using my sony mdr cd2000 headphones. They are old, slightly beat up and less comfortable for extended sessions but wow they sound so much nicer than the Astros. So now I'm thinking it's time to upgrade. 

I have narrowed down my headphone choices with great help from this thread. The only thing I could use a bit of advice on is the mic. I am a pc gamer so I have a few more options than console gamers. I would like to hear the op's thoughts on the BoomPro mic though. I like the idea of less cords and the boompro would combine the mic and headphones once again like my original a40 setup. If mle or anyone else has thoughts on beam forming mics or desktop cardioid mics like the Blue Yeti, I'd like to hear that too.

edit: edited sony headphone model


----------



## kenshinhimura

sadboy said:


> How gory is Attack on Titan?


 

 its not too bad in my opinion, they dont try to over-do it. that being said people are getting eaten so....


----------



## Change is Good

dankdafied said:


> Incredible OP. Ty so much for this.
> 
> I'd been using a40's for years until my new cat chewed the cord. Mine are old enough that they don't make the replacement anymore. I ordered a used cord off ebay but in the meantime I've been using my sony cdma2000 headphones. They are old, slightly beat up and less comfortable for extended sessions but wow they sound so much nicer than the Astros. So now I'm thinking it's time to upgrade.
> 
> I have narrowed down my headphone choices with great help from this thread. The only thing I could use a bit of advice on is the mic. I am a pc gamer so I have a few more options than console gamers. I would like to hear the op's thoughts on the BoomPro mic though. I like the idea of less cords and the boompro would combine the mic and headphones once again like my original a40 setup. If mle or anyone else has thoughts on beam forming mics or desktop cardioid mics like the Blue Yeti, I'd like to hear that too.


 
  
 I think Axel is the only one in the thread who has the BoomPro. I may be mistaken, though...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I think Axel is the only one in the thread who has the BoomPro. I may be mistaken, though...


 
  
 I may very well be. I've been using the BoomPro as my only gaming microphone for a bit now and I absolutely love it. Build quality is excellent, sound capturing is wonderful and it's easily managed. Using it with efficient headphones I can run it directly off my Macbook or my Recon3D USB. Or I can add in my amp to get more power for my Mad Dogs. The main beef is the in-line control as I feel it's mostly useless for me and a bit clunky on an otherwise elegant piece of tech.
  
 Using a Blue Yeti and the like for gaming is a bit tedious to setup, but can yield impressive results. I've used a Blue Yeti Pro for gaming. Why? Because I could. It was powered by a Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 then fed into my Macbook for gaming a few times. I used a desktop double armed mic stand with a shock mount to prevent any vibrations getting into the mic while I played. I used that setup for 4 gaming sessions. Sound quality was second to none for those with me in the games. Using a normal Yeti you'd still need the stand and shock mount for proper pickup, but you could go USB in to the computer. However in my opinion it's not worth the work or cost of setting up such a configuration with gaming as the intended use and I feel most would be better off with a more simple setup for gaming. I've never used a beam forming microphone in a gaming setup.


----------



## Dankdafied

axelcloris said:


> I may very well be. I've been using the BoomPro as my only gaming microphone for a bit now and I absolutely love it. Build quality is excellent, sound capturing is wonderful and it's easily managed. Using it with efficient headphones I can run it directly off my Macbook or my Recon3D USB. Or I can add in my amp to get more power for my Mad Dogs. The main beef is the in-line control as I feel it's mostly useless for me and a bit clunky on an otherwise elegant piece of tech.
> 
> Using a Blue Yeti and the like for gaming is a bit tedious to setup, but can yield impressive results. I've used a Blue Yeti Pro for gaming. Why? Because I could. It was powered by a Scarlett Focusrite 2i2 then fed into my Macbook for gaming a few times. I used a desktop double armed mic stand with a shock mount to prevent any vibrations getting into the mic while I played. I used that setup for 4 gaming sessions. Sound quality was second to none for those with me in the games. Using a normal Yeti you'd still need the stand and shock mount for proper pickup, but you could go USB in to the computer. However in my opinion it's not worth the work or cost of setting up such a configuration with gaming as the intended use and I feel most would be better off with a more simple setup for gaming. I've never used a beam forming microphone in a gaming setup.




This was some good feedback, ty.

I'm only considering the beam forming mic because one is included with the sound blaster z and the yeti because it would be a permanent fixture on my desk and not another wire to contend with. But, hearing how happy someone is with the boompro was really all I needed to hear, and at 1/3 the cost of a yeti or sb z, I think the decision is made.


----------



## AxelCloris

dankdafied said:


> This was some good feedback, ty.
> 
> I'm only considering the beam forming mic because one is included with the sound blaster z and the yeti because it would be a permanent fixture on my desk and not another wire to contend with. But, hearing how happy someone is with the boompro was really all I needed to hear, and at 1/3 the cost of a yeti or sb z, I think the decision is made.


 
  
 Happy to help.


----------



## burritoboy9984

axelcloris said:


> Happy to help.




+1 for the boompro. You could look at radioshack for their's too. It's MUCH cheaper.

-Erik


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> Btw on the front page, there will be a new planar magnetic cans from OPPO. Its also chinese like Hifiman.
> I wonder how will they sound and perform on gaming compared to Hifiman.
> However, Oppo in China is mainly making mobile phones. Audio compared to Hifiman, Oppo is less known. However they do have MP3 player.




Doesn't Oppo also make some of the best BluRay players? Maybe not the peak summit best, but shaking up that arena with extremely high performance but also at an extremely high value? If it is the same company, then I'd be very interested because of their product target philosophy alone.



burritoboy9984 said:


> +1 for the boompro. You could look at radioshack for their's too. It's MUCH cheaper.
> 
> -Erik




I gave away 2 of my mics, they're very good especially for the price, but sometimes I wish I had a more sensitive/louder mic. What are the ones at Radioshak called, and what are they like?
I don't do the kind of things to justify a Blue Yeti or anything so nice.


----------



## ethan7000

Same Oppo Evs.


----------



## Evshrug

WELL then, where's that interested popcorn-munching emoji when I want to type it from my phone?


Seems easy enough to remember...
You're on a roll Ethan7000!
But, can you make it to the Honor Roll?


----------



## ethan7000

Lol I know this one too. It's opcorn but Add another colon at the end


----------



## widdyjudas

Its supposed to be the same oppo brand. The logo is the same like the oppo I know in China.
 Oppo in China are mainly known for mobile phones. Their phones are ok compared to other chinese smart phones. Pricing is also competitive compared to any chinese smart phone. I prefer Xiaomi than oppo phone though, dont like oppo android UI.
 Funny thing, oppo audio and video is not very known here. I barely see any oppo devices on any electronic shop in HK and China, except smartphone. But I saw their mp3 player in cans store among hifiman. Meizu audio devices are more known than Oppo.
 I guess they will have a rough start with the audio devices and their first planar cans. Give them few years, and I think they will compete with Hifiman.


----------



## kallell

I have to ask, why hasn't the g930 been reviewed here? It seems to have such mixed reviews; it'd be nice to have MLE's opinion on it


----------



## Evshrug

kallell said:


> I have to ask, why hasn't the g930 been reviewed here? It seems to have such mixed reviews; it'd be nice to have MLE's opinion on it



Isn't that a Logitech model?
Sennheiser HD558 (especially with the simple foam ring mod) beats it handily in every way, except it doesn't come with an integrated mic (which isn't an issue because a separate mic is like $3-$4). I also loved the soundstage and competitive nature of the AD700... unfortunately gaming headsets are more marketing gimmick than substance.


----------



## Murder Mike

evshrug said:


> Isn't that a Logitech model?
> Sennheiser HD558 (especially with the simple foam ring mod) beats it handily in every way, except it doesn't come with an integrated mic (which isn't an issue because a separate mic is like $3-$4). I also loved the soundstage and competitive nature of the AD700... unfortunately gaming headsets are more marketing gimmick than substance.


 
  
 The G930 is also wireless. Sometimes convenience outweighs performance. I know I still wear mine from time to time, despite having options that are far, far, better. The sound quality isn't great, but it's far from awful.


----------



## Evshrug

murder mike said:


> The G930 is also wireless. Sometimes convenience outweighs performance. I know I still wear mine from time to time, despite having options that are far, far, better. The sound quality isn't great, but it's far from awful.



Consider the wireless system... Your $80 is split between (gaming marketing,) wireless transmitter, DAC, amplifier, battery, build quality, mic, and driver quality. And since all those components are built-in, you can't economically upgrade any of them. Too many compromises *for me.*

Unless your cable is too short to have enough slack to rest on the ground between you and a TV, I can't really see any practical gain for what makes wireless more convenient. It's more of an aesthetic thing for most people... and how much acoustic sacrifices someone is willing to make for aesthetic pleasure vary greatly, person to person. 

I'm not judging aesthetics as unimportant though... I recently delayed my car purchase for a week so I could get a blue one, and even more recently I waited like 3 weeks to get a silver iPhone (looks great in my cognac leather case)! I wish my K712 had another orange ring, a large one around the edge of the earcup grills.


----------



## DCB305

Hey guys, haven't been around in a while and this may have already been discussed (there are 1200 pgs now and I don't have the time to sift through them), but are there any new Dolby Headphone decoders (astro mixamp, etc) coming out since the new consoles are set to arrive soon? 
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## conquerator2

Any opinion on the Audio Technica ATH-A900X?
 I am planning to get these and would like any input if possible.
 From the reviews they seem really good. The only thing that might need slight EQ or pad swap is the bass, or rather certain portions of it. Mids, highs, soundstage and instrument separation is said to be top notch.
 I am talking more for listening to music but I'd be interested in movies/gaming as well, though I have the HE-6 for that right now.
 ATH-A900X is for portable use, yeah I am crazy :]


----------



## ethan7000

dcb305 said:


> Hey guys, haven't been around in a while and this may have already been discussed (there are 1200 pgs now and I don't have the time to sift through them), but are there any new Dolby Headphone decoders (astro mixamp, etc) coming out since the new consoles are set to arrive soon?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 
 Not necessarily coinciding with consoles, but Headphone X will be making it to some new units AFAIK
  
 http://www.dts.com/professionals/sound-technologies/headphonex.aspx


----------



## Fegefeuer

Everyone wants a bit of the new generation hypecake so they will all bring new toys. Astro, Turtle Beach, Tritto, Creative, EVERRRRYYOOOONE.


----------



## Evshrug

*LET THEM EAT HYPECAKE!1!!!!*


----------



## Evshrug

Conq,
I have not heard the A900x, but the A700 was alright. Have you seen the A900X in person? I'm not saying you can't wear them portable, but they ARE really big and obvious. I also haven't heard that they are anything special... You might be better of looking at the Creative Aurvana Live! (CAL), Samson, Takstar, or closed AKG models if closed is what you're looking for.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm debating on switching up some of my gear...
  
 I was thinking the Asgard 2 and ODAC for my MDs. I hear the ODAC sounds more open than my MSII... and that the AG2 will pair better with my MDs than the iCAN. I'd like some of your opinions, guys.


----------



## chicolom

Most Asgard 2 reviews/impressions I've read have just been lukewarm.

What are you expecting from an asgard that your m stage and iCan can't deliver. Is the m stage not powerful enough for mad dogs?

I prefer the ODAC a tad to the music steamer as it does sound a little more open and with better depth.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> What are you expecting from an asgard that your m stage and iCan can't deliver.


 
  
 More power for my MDs...
  
 When I was inquiring about the HE500 (a while back during my AKG rattle issues) I was told that my current gear would fair well... but being a planar magnetic it would scale better with more power. I also remember Mad mentioning that the MDs truly shined with his Compass 2.
  
 It's an itch that's been getting worse as time passes, so I'm about to scratch it...


----------



## conquerator2

DP..


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Conq,
> I have not heard the A900x, but the A700 was alright. Have you seen the A900X in person? I'm not saying you can't wear them portable, but they ARE really big and obvious. I also haven't heard that they are anything special... You might be better of looking at the Creative Aurvana Live! (CAL), Samson, Takstar, or closed AKG models if closed is what you're looking for.




Yeah, size doesn't really trouble me as long as they hold on my head. + they are efficient and don't really need amping...
Thing is, they seem to be really good... I am definitely not writing them off as I read only praise on them.
Well not much info around here but - they have an awesome treble, extended and rather airy for a closed HP, mids are very luscious and full, bass is tight and maybe a bit too strong according to some but I'd have to verify that. Soundstage is very wide and somewhat holographic, again said to be very impressive for music and likes for a closed set of HP, instrument separation is top notch... They definitely seem to hold their own against the competition it seems, they seem to have a charming signature too...
Also very different from the one you mentioned supposedly.

I mean, that's what I read but... So far so good!


----------



## Evshrug

You know, thinking back... People generally found the A900 (though different in sound signature) to be on the same level as the legendary open AD700, and the A700 as a step behind. Again, if I had to trust a company to have good soundstage on closed cans, I'd look to Audio technica, Denon, and AKG. Another pair to consider (was just reminded by reading other's posts) are the Mad Dogs.

The a900s, if you haven't gotten them yet, are big. Like, giant "the fly" eyeballs covering the side of your head big. You may not care, but you will definitely get noticed and potentially harassed in public. Just sayin. They're designed for home use. But if you want, I can't stop you.

Overall though, I prefer open headphones for comfort and techical quality. On the go I typically use Etymotic IEMs and/or V-MODA M-100 closed headphones


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> You know, thinking back... People generally found the A900 (though different in sound signature) to be on the same level as the legendary open AD700, and the A700 as a step behind. Again, if I had to trust a company to have good soundstage on closed cans, I'd look to Audio technica, Denon, and AKG. Another pair to consider (was just reminded by reading other's posts) are the Mad Dogs.
> 
> The a900s, if you haven't gotten them yet, are big. Like, giant "the fly" eyeballs covering the side of your head big. You may not care, but you will definitely get noticed and potentially harassed in public. Just sayin. They're designed for home use. But if you want, I can't stop you.
> 
> Overall though, I prefer open headphones for comfort and techical quality. On the go I typically use Etymotic IEMs and/or V-MODA M-100 closed headphones




Yeah though Mad Dogs require some serious amping to sound best. I have the HiFiMAN for home use so these would be the traveling companions. Which also rules out open cans.
I used the Pro 900 before for portabilities and these were huge too so... Yeah people can bitch all they want as long as they won't be disturbed by it 
Thanks though!
For now the ATH-A900X is still my pick, but there is still time to change that.
Funily enough a tiny Clip+ can drive them just fine, while AKGs or Mad Dogs... Eh, not so much xD
I wanted to try me some big technicas anyway


----------



## mckenziepiping

I know you're a console gamer but I don't know whether my question applies only to PC gamers.
  
 I don't understand why you use Dolby Surround + Mixamp + Headphones.
  
 It was my understanding that Dolby Surround takes care of the processing for virtual surround sound, which makes the Mixamp seem like a redundant step and makes me wonder why not just connect the headphones directly to the audio jack of your device, leaving out the Mixamp....?
  
 Like wouldn't the Mixamp try to redo the processing that Dolby Surround has already done and screw things up?


----------



## Murder Mike

change is good said:


> More power for my MDs...
> 
> When I was inquiring about the HE500 (a while back during my AKG rattle issues) I was told that my current gear would fair well... but being a planar magnetic it would scale better with more power. I also remember Mad mentioning that the MDs truly shined with his Compass 2.
> 
> It's an itch that's been getting worse as time passes, so I'm about to scratch it...


 
  
 You could check out this thread. Someone in the Deals thread mentioned they were using the Emotiva mini-X A-100 with the Mad Dogs. The amp is on sale right now for $169 at Emotiva's website.


----------



## ethan7000

mckenziepiping said:


> I know you're a console gamer but I don't know whether my question applies only to PC gamers.
> 
> I don't understand why you use Dolby Surround + Mixamp + Headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Who's using DS + Mixamp? I don't think that's the case.  Are you thinking of outputting Dolby Digital Live into a Mixamp? Because that's different.


----------



## conquerator2

mckenziepiping said:


> I know you're a console gamer but I don't know whether my question applies only to PC gamers.
> 
> I don't understand why you use Dolby Surround + Mixamp + Headphones.
> 
> ...




Because muxamp is the device that does the processing.
Also, consoles don't have an audio jack output... So you need something regardless.


----------



## Evshrug

mckenziepiping said:


> I know you're a console gamer but I don't know whether my question applies only to PC gamers.
> 
> I don't understand why you use Dolby Surround + Mixamp + Headphones.
> 
> ...



Let me 'splain and lay it out plain:
Consoles output 5.1 surround (Dolby Digital Live, DDL). The mixamp uses Dolby *Headphone* to recode that 5.1 signal into virtual surround for headphones. Then, hardware wise, the Mixamp has a headphone out jack, and it also allows console users to balance the volumes of Chat and Game audio on the fly, no matter what game (here's looking at you, Halo 4...).

Would NOT recommend Mixamp for PC use.


----------



## davisman

evshrug said:


> Would NOT recommend Mixamp for PC use.


 
 Amen. There are so many good sound cards that absolutely blow it out of the water.


----------



## Ordokon

Hello, I was looking for new headphones (for pc gaming) on many sites and forums last days and when I found your thread, I was so happy! It is awesome! I have never seen so much complex thread about headphones and simply about one thing before.
 After I read your reviews I am thinking about X1 and MA-900 cause they are all-rounders.
  
 But I want to ask about AD700 and K701 (702). I read that they are one of the best headphones in position accuracy, but are they also good to use them on games where i want to enjoy an atmosphere and in game music (like Skyrim, The Witcher, etc.), or simply in that situations, they are bad?
 I want some headphones primary on gaming and want a good position accuracy (on BF4), but also they should be fun to enjoy games where is strong plot, nice atmosphere (you know, be impressed by sound of game). I guess on that purpose X1 and MA-900 are best (max i want to spend is 300$). Just want to know if I am right and if these headphones are really so much amazing in games . Right now I use Sennheiser HD 25 II cause havent headphones primary on PC gaming.
 And also want to know, if these headphones (X1, MA-900 and maybe AD700, K701) are good to watching movies .
  
 Thank you for all advices.
 And sorry for my English and eventual mistakes.


----------



## Change is Good

Earth to MLE?


----------



## Change is Good

ordokon said:


> Hello, I was looking for new headphones (for pc gaming) on many sites and forums last days and when I found your thread, I was so happy! It is awesome! I have never seen so much complex thread about headphones and simply about one thing before.
> After I read your reviews I am thinking about X1 and MA-900 cause they are all-rounders.
> 
> But I want to ask about AD700 and K701 (702). I read that they are one of the best headphones in position accuracy, but are they also good to use them on games where i want to enjoy an atmosphere and in game music (like Skyrim, The Witcher, etc.), or simply in that situations, they are bad?
> ...


My advice would be to go for the Q701 if you can withstand the bumps on the headband, or try to find one of the newer K702s with the flat headband. Then, order the K712 pads from AKG and vualah...

K702/Q701 w/stock angled pads for competitive

K702/Q701 w/memory foam pads for movies and single player

... for around $300 give or take.


----------



## davisman

Has anybody had experience with the akg 712 pros vs the annies? They are about the same price these days new.


----------



## chicolom

ordokon said:


> But I want to ask about AD700 and K701 (702). I read that they are one of the best headphones in position accuracy, but are they also good to use them on games where i want to enjoy an atmosphere and in game music (like Skyrim, The Witcher, etc.), or simply in that situations, they are bad?
> I want some headphones primary on gaming and want a good position accuracy (on BF4), but also they should be fun to enjoy games where is strong plot, nice atmosphere (you know, be impressed by sound of game). I guess on that purpose X1 and MA-900 are best (max i want to spend is 300$). Just want to know if I am right and if these headphones are really so much amazing in games . Right now I use Sennheiser HD 25 II cause havent headphones primary on PC gaming.
> And also want to know, if these headphones (X1, MA-900 and maybe AD700, K701) are good to watching movies .


 
  
 AD700's signature isn't very good for atmosphere.  It's too thin.
  
 If you're getting an AKG, I'd get the Q701 over a K701 or K702 to be safe.
  
 The X1 is a solid choice, and it's the best headphone I've used for movies.  It also works great for single player gaming.  It might be slightly too bassy for competitive gaming.


----------



## Change is Good

Sometimes I wonder if people actually search for info rather than ask outright. This has been touched on numerous times by Chico and others (not me, though, because I'm lazy ).

The differences are too minor to notice unless you have them side by side or with another headphone to reference each off of.


Davisman, get whichever you find that costs less.


----------



## davisman

change is good said:


> Sometimes I wonder if people actually search for info rather than ask outright. This has been touched on numerous times by Chico and others (not me, though, because I'm lazy ).
> 
> The differences are too minor to notice unless you have them side by side or with another headphone to reference each off of.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have looked for about 2 hours today before I asked, and kept seeing differing opinions. Some claim they are similar, and one claimed the annies sounded muddy, which I know to be wrong.
  
 I asked because I already purchased the annies, a week ago. I was questioning that decision after I discovered the minimal price difference.


----------



## conquerator2

Unlike the ATH-A900X...
 Which is different, but people don't wanna talk about it or have no experience, around here I mean 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I kinda wonder why nobody recommends these? I read very good things about them, except for the "3D wings" suspension/"headband"


----------



## Change is Good

davisman said:


> I have looked for about 2 hours today before I asked, and kept seeing differing opinions. Some claim they are similar, and one claimed the annies sounded muddy, which I know to be wrong.
> 
> I asked because I already purchased the annies, a week ago. I was questioning that decision after I discovered the minimal price difference.


 Don't doubt your decision...

You bought a wonderful headphone


----------



## chicolom

K712s are slightly smoother and fuller, and slightly more open.  Anniversaries are slightly drier.
  
 They're similar though, so if your happy with the Anniversaries just stick with them.


----------



## Change is Good

don't forget slightly more bass...

This hobby is so evil, lol.

davisman, these differences are true... but I would add "very" in front of "slightly"


----------



## davisman

Thanks man, I dont know whats into me lately with my audio gear. I was fine for two years with my senn hd 598s, but in the last two weeks I have bought two new cans, and am thinking about a 3rd pair. I picked up the annies for my Pc setup to use for gaming/music/some movies. I also picked up some denon d600's for console gaming with a mixamp. I bought the d600s on a whim at best buy to use up some reward zone money. I wanted a good closed can, and denons previous line was well respected, but when I got home I realized I should have done more research. 
  
 I guess that is why I was also doubting the annies.


----------



## Change is Good

Those D600s aren't well suited for gaming from what I've read up on. They fit into the u-shaped category which is what most portable headphones (full and mid size) are leaning towards, these days.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah Denons took a turn for the worse... Something that'd be described in aviation is a nosedive... Though their older models D2K,5K and 7K are still very well rewarded...
I wish I could hear these at least once...
Alas, some players come and go and we have many new, promising players entering the field so... I guess all is good


----------



## davisman

Thanks for the response, Chico. That should be the first post in the k712 pro appreciation thread 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.


----------



## davisman

change is good said:


> Those D600s aren't well suited for gaming from what I've read up on. They fit into the u-shaped category which is what most portable headphones (full and mid size) are leaning towards, these days.


 
 I agree, but the only reason I have not returned them yet is the positional accuracy is pretty good. I tested it for about an hour with RightMark 3dsound positional accuracy test. Surprisingly enough they do a good job distinguishing sounds from front and behind, even when you change the z axis.


----------



## Ordokon

Thank you guys for really quick answer!
 So do you think that AKG Q701 is also amazing in single player games? I mean if I enjoy these games with these headphones. And what about MA-900, do you have some experience to compare it?
 Also have a question about soundcard, I have Asus Xonar DX, but read that it hasnt headphone amp, so want to know if I need some external one or if would be better to buy new soundcard (like Xonar STX).
  
 Thank you for anwers.


----------



## Change is Good

ordokon said:


> Thank you guys for really quick answer!
> So do you think that AKG Q701 is also amazing in single player games? I mean if I enjoy these games with these headphones. And what about MA-900, do you have some experience to compare it?
> Also have a question about soundcard, I have Asus Xonar DX, but read that it hasnt headphone amp, so want to know if I need some external one or if would be better to buy new soundcard (like Xonar STX).
> 
> Thank you for anwers.


 
  
 The MA900 has a slightly smaller soundstage with more bass, but not as refined (technically from top to bottom) as the Q701. Just get the Q701 and order the K712 pads from AKG, like I said for your price range. You will have two different signatures in one headphone (one for competitive and the other for movies/single player).


----------



## PurpleAngel

ordokon said:


> Thank you guys for really quick answer!
> So do you think that AKG Q701 is also amazing in single player games? I mean if I enjoy these games with these headphones. And what about MA-900, do you have some experience to compare it?
> Also have a question about sound card, I have Asus Xonar DX, but read that it hasn't headphone amp, so want to know if I need some external one or if would be better to buy new sound card (like Xonar STX).


 
 Check out the AKG K612 Pro (120-Ohm) headphones. cheaper then the AKG 7XX series.
  
 I'm an STX user.
 I would think it would be better just to get a Schiit Magni headphone amplifier, new $99.
 Here is a used one for sale, $80.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/686190/schiit-magni-like-new-includes-shipping
  
 Being external allows you to use the Magni with more then just your computer.
 The Magni's headphone output impedance is less then 1-Ohm    (the Essence STX is 10-Ohms)
 The Magni might be better to have if you ever buy a low impedance headphone.
 And you get a volume knob right at your finger tips.


----------



## guily6669

*PLEASE, can anyone tell me a device to control volume balance R\L for regular 3.5mm jack Headphones.*
  
 I hear a little less on my right ear so in the PC I just decrease a little left volume.
  
 I want to buy the Creative Recon 3D USB for the Xbox360, but contacted them and they just blahblahblah balance settings are a pc only feature and aren't saved on xbox360 mod (They are such bastards, since they could update it's firmware to actually save balance settings to, but whatever... BASTARDS
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
  
*It must have those aspects:*
  
*- Must be portable\light;*
*- Must be cheap;*
*- Must not interfere with headphone's max volume (*max volume has to be the same as without the balancer*);*
*- Must not interfere with the sound (*Most important thing, it must not change music quality in any kind: power\\frequency\\distortion*)*;
  
  
  
 I found this on ebay:

  
 But it's way too cheap 1.76€, so I bet it will decrease full volume power for the headphones and probably change quality (Or am I wrong????)
  
  
 My Siberia V2 Headphones already have a volume control, will it be bad adding one more to control balance????
  
  
*Keep Cool*


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Unlike the ATH-A900X...
> Which is different, but people don't wanna talk about it or have no experience, around here I mean
> I kinda wonder why nobody recommends these? I read very good things about them, except for the "3D wings" suspension/"headband"



The thread OP generally dislikes pleather pads (strike one), Audio Technica's wing system is uncomfortable for him (strike two), and at the same price range, or for max technical potential, open headphones simply outperform closed headphones in soundstage, detail, refinement, and wearing comfort (strike three), so they're not of interest to MLE and he doesn't recommend them as some of the very best gaming options.
Audio Technicas do pop up on the thread from time-to-time, but mostly the AD700 for its amazing soundstage and low-cost value, and usually if that's a person's budget and main desirable traits I chime in and suggest tips for fit comfort and EQ that beach, but if someone is asking for suggestions and has a higher budget then we recommend headphones that can outperform the AD700.

[rule]

Anyone else read the K612 comparison? Sounds like a legit value. A lot of good vibes from the sonic impression, but what I find most interesting is the 120 ohm impedance... It'll be quieter so it'll need more volume headroom, but that actually makes it less picky to match it up with the right amp for great performance.

*Ordokon*, 
As an owner (and lover) of the Q701 and K712, you should look more into this K612 alongside the other options. With any of these AKGs, especially the 62 ohm flagship ones, it's highly recommended you pair them up with an amp (such as the Magni, or FiiO E09k) to avoid a bit of ear - tiring glare to the treble and improve the response of the bass. I use my Q701 (and now K712) often with single player and movies, I find them very lively, exciting, and a satisfying experience. Those two get MY top recommendation if they are in your budget, if not the K612 seems attractive.

I hope Mad (or Chico, Change, or heck even myself) get the urge to try these K612s out, seems like they could be a great "flagship-lite" experience.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard the K601 (which the K612 takes after) isn't exactly expansive in soundstage and aren't like the 70x series. It's a different kind of beast.

Once I get my MA900, I'm gonna be slowing down a considerable amount when it comes headphones and head-fi in general, so don't expect much in the future.


----------



## Evshrug

Guily,
I was actually thinking about you earlier today. To get ALL your green highlights, you might have to design a product yourself  I did notice, for when you're listening to music, that on iPhones and iPod Touch you can go to Settings>General>Accessibility and find a L/R channel balance option ^_^
Also, if you haven't purchased an amp yet, consider picking one with balance controls... A good investment since you're probably going to have imba issues your whole life (why "hold yourself over" with something cheap, when you probably won't get better?). I think the FiiO E07k and E17 have this feature, have you looked into them? I know almost all high-end integrated amplifiers offer this control, keep looking and I expect you'll find a solution.

I'm willing to bet your eBay option is a wire with adjustable resistors... It probably would work, and yep it would probably make your headphones sound less refined. I think that's the real cost, so even though it's less money I think the cost's too great to be worth it unless you don't mind. Test the effect with your syberias: those are already a bit compromised, but you can preview the effect of the eBay attachment by turning down the "volume" with your headphone, then turning the volume back up using your audio source/amp.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I heard the K601 (which the K612 takes after) isn't exactly expansive in soundstage and aren't like the 70x series. It's a different kind of beast.




I used to hear this too, but I wonder how much less it is. Maybe it's just closer to the Annie's presentation, since it has flat pads. Obviously a step-down model will/ought to have a step-down in audio refinement, but with AKG I don't know... The "flagships" have different prices, but mostly the same technical quality and refinement with just a few tweaks to the FR signature.

The front page review for the K702 vs K612 suggests that they're pretty close, with the K612 still having above-average soundstage (even to the Hd600) and a rounder soundstage with the flat pads, like the Annie's flat pads.

Also, I just realized I'm now 27. Woot woot wheeooto!


----------



## PurpleAngel

mad lust envy said:


> I heard the K601 (which the K612 takes after) isn't exactly expansive in sound stage and aren't like the 70x series. It's a different kind of beast.


 
 Do you remember what sources you were using to listen to the K601s?


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I used to hear this too, but I wonder how much less it is. Maybe it's just closer to the Annie's presentation, since it has flat pads. Obviously a step-down model will/ought to have a step-down in audio refinement, but with AKG I don't know... The "flagships" have different prices, but mostly the same technical quality and refinement with just a few tweaks to the FR signature.
> 
> The front page review for the K702 vs K612 suggests that they're pretty close, with the K612 still having above-average soundstage (even to the Hd600) and a rounder soundstage with the flat pads, like the Annie's flat pads.
> 
> Also, I just realized I'm now 27. Woot woot wheeooto!




Congratz


----------



## Evshrug

My interpretation of Mad's post was that he read that soundstage wasn't as expansive... not that he'd tried them himself.

Thanks Conq!
There were a few points where I worried I wouldn't make it, seems all good now 
I just gotta stop reading HeadFi and fall back asleep, it's really late at night here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> Do you remember what sources you were using to listen to the K601s?




Heard as in, FWIR.

And despite the hyperbole of sources/amps, I don't find any source to drastically change what I hear from a headphone's innate sound, regardless of source I've used. So I'm not gonna argue about one source changing the soundstage by an appreciable or even noticeable amount.

I expect a headphone to sound 99% like itself regardless of source. And my expectations haven't failed me. If a headphone has a small soundstage, it's probably gonna remain that way even with another source. Power of an amp is more likely to change depth and size, from what I've experienced.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> *1]The thread OP generally dislikes pleather pads (strike one)*, 2]*Audio Technica's wing system is uncomfortable for him (strike two),* 3]*and at the same price range, or for max technical potential, open headphones simply outperform closed headphones in soundstage, detail, refinement, and wearing comfort (strike three), so they're not of interest to MLE and he doesn't recommend them as some of the very best gaming options.*
> Audio Technicas do pop up on the thread from time-to-time, but mostly the AD700 for its amazing soundstage and low-cost value, and usually if that's a person's budget and main desirable traits I chime in and suggest tips for fit comfort and EQ that beach, but if someone is asking for suggestions and has a higher budget then we recommend headphones that can outperform the AD700.
> Anyone else read the K612 comparison? Sounds like a legit value. A lot of good vibes from the sonic impression, but what I find most interesting is the 120 ohm impedance... It'll be quieter so it'll need more volume headroom, but that actually makes it less picky to match it up with the right amp for great performance.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1] Yes, I respect that.
 2] Sure but again, it's just him :] I hope it will fit me much better.
 3] Not necessarily true... I have tried a lot of headphones and there are instances where closed backs outperformed open airs significantly at a similar/equal price point so... It could be mostly true but definitely not always.
 We have many discovered gems around there, I hope the ATH-A900X will become just that for me.
 From what I've read, it might...
  
 I respect everyone's contribution as well as MLE's tastes, but I certainly don't support the open>closed opnion. It is just not always the case.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hated the A900x every time I demoed it. For around half that price, I'd take the HD558, every time.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I hated the A900x every time I demoed it. For around half that price, I'd take the HD558, every time.


 
 Why is that?
 Was it the sound or comfort?
 Plus, I need closed.
 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It sounds flat, lifeless, boring. Like it has no real character.

If you're gonna spend that much, get the Mad Dogs instead. A much, MUCH better closed headphone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If anyone from the EU wants to build an X1 headset you can pair the X1 with the Reloop RHM-10 easily since the connector fits.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> It sounds flat, lifeless, boring. Like it has no real character.
> 
> If you're gonna spend that much, get the Mad Dogs instead. A much, MUCH better closed headphone.


 
  
 That sounds nothing like the ATH-A900X I read about... You mist be confusing them for a different model... They have similar names.
 Mad Dogs require some hefty amping and I know these are the best of the best, but the'd run my twice as much to get here...
  
 Really I think you must be talking about different headphones - http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-A900X-Audiophile-Closed-Back-Headphones/dp/B006V386UG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382187710&sr=8-1&keywords=audio+technica+ath-a900x
  
 The reviews seem nothing like what you said...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, no. It's the only closed Audio Technica with a clear A900x label, demos at Best Buy. Been to various different Best Buys, and all of the A900x demos bored me to tears. I greatly prefer the Momentum that is basically next to the A900x. It's so inferior to the Momentum, I'd be pissed if I was AT and my headphones were next to the Momentum. At least the A900x was SLIIIIGHTLY less of a disappointment than the K550. Everything I read on those being dry, metallic and uninspired was true.

Even took the E17+E12 to the store to these them out.


----------



## SaLX

fegefeuer said:


> If anyone from the EU wants to build an X1 headset you can pair the X1 with the Reloop RHM-10 easily since the connector fits.


 
 Nice find, but hefty impedance on those Feg (2.2 Ohm: at least they quote it!). Have emailed Beyer about these: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/accessories/custom-headset-gear.html. Can't imagine they're any better impedance wise, but seeing as the stock cable on the X1 is 1.8 Ohm you never know. Also both cost a lot, _but at least both are ideal if you're lucky to use headphones with detachable cables _
  
_EDIT: got a reply from Beyer:_
  
The guys from our R&D department told me today that the impedance of the cable must be much below 1 Ohm. If you have further questions don’t hesitate to contact me.
  
Best Regards,
  
*Joscha Kretschmann, B.A.*
Product and Marketing Manager Headphones
  
 Also check out these - pretty decent reviews: http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Umm, no. It's the only closed Audio Technica with a clear A900x label, demos at Best Buy. Been to various different Best Buys, and all of the A900x demos bored me to tears. I greatly prefer the Momentum that is basically next to the A900x. It's so inferior to the Momentum, I'd be pissed if I was AT and my headphones were next to the Momentum. At least the A900x was SLIIIIGHTLY less of a disappointment than the K550. Everything I read on those being dry, metallic and uninspired was true.
> 
> Even took the E17+E12 to the store to these them out.


 
 Hmm, I find that kinda strange... They are being compared to the DT990 a lot while being slightly different and inferior.
 Anyway, I don't think my big ears can fit the Momentums and I don't want on-ears so...
 I hope I'll find them better than you did, after all we all hear differently...
  
 But your opinion seems to pretty much contradict everything I read lol... Beats me,


----------



## SaLX

Pleather pads > I had a pair of Audio Technicas and I have to weigh in on this: if you've got stubble, and don't shave twice a day then you might as well give your cat your headphones to play with. Pleather gets ripped to sh** in no time (unless you're female or under 15). Had the A500's way back and within 2 months the pads were shredded badly at the bottom. Seriously avoid. And please note that I am _not an ape_.
  
 Also too: avoid the A500's because they're anaemic, lifeless and dull (these are the closed backs - still costly). Might as well have tossed them to my cat on unboxing and saved me the effort.


----------



## Ordokon

After some research I find that AKG Q701 is too expensive for me (I am from Czech Republic and price here is 400$, and with earpads and amp it will be too much expensive). So I am thinking about Sony MDR MA900, these looks pretty nice and according to reviews they are good (and also price is nice). But do I still need a headphone amp with MA900 (which advised me Evshrug and PurpleAngel, FiiO E09k), or my Xonar DX is enough to MA900?
 And I got advice to look on the AKG K612 pro. Could someone tell me something about K612, if they are also good for gaming, cause I didnt find some information and experiences with gaming. I read some review here on head-fi, comparision between K612 and K702, but still want to know your opinion guys, which one you think is better.
 Thank you for all replies and advices.


----------



## conquerator2

ordokon said:


> After some research I find that AKG Q701 is too expensive for me (I am from Czech Republic and price here is 400$, and with earpads and amp it will be too much expensive). So I am thinking about Sony MDR MA900, these looks pretty nice and according to reviews they are good (and also price is nice). But do I still need a headphone amp with MA900 (which advised me Evshrug and PurpleAngel, FiiO E09k), or my Xonar DX is enough to MA900?
> And I got advice to look on the AKG K612 pro. Could someone tell me something about K612, if they are also good for gaming, cause I didnt find some information and experiences with gaming. I read some review here on head-fi, comparision between K612 and K702, but still want to know your opinion guys, which one you think is better.
> Thank you for all replies and advices.


 
  
 Unfortunately, I can't comment on any of the headphones you mentioned :/
  
 Just wanted to say hi to my fellow bohemian


----------



## Ordokon

conquerator2 said:


> Unfortunately, I can't comment on any of the headphones you mentioned :/
> 
> Just wanted to say hi to my fellow bohemian


 
 Hey bro


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The MA900 will probably sound fine off the DX.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ordokon said:


> After some research I find that AKG Q701 is too expensive for me (I am from Czech Republic and price here is 400$, and with earpads and amp it will be too much expensive). So I am thinking about Sony MDR MA900, these looks pretty nice and according to reviews they are good (and also price is nice). But do I still need a headphone amp with MA900 (which advised me Evshrug and PurpleAngel, FiiO E09k), or my Xonar DX is enough to MA900?
> And I got advice to look on the AKG K612 pro. Could someone tell me something about K612, if they are also good for gaming, cause I didnt find some information and experiences with gaming. I read some review here on head-fi, comparision between K612 and K702, but still want to know your opinion guys, which one you think is better.
> Thank you for all replies and advices.


 

 Try asking on these threads about the AKG K612 Pro
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/216596/akg-k601-k612-pro-owners-unite
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685483/akg-k702-the-classic-vs-k612-pro-the-upstart-review-and-comparison


----------



## Eclipse-

My sound card is the one that comes from maximus vi impact, Do I still need to buy a mix amp to have a better sound quality?Headphone choices are AKG K701 or AKG K702 or Senheiser HD598. I would be using this for games,music, and movies.
  
 on the side note I still haven't bought that yet, still researching if the on board sound card is good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

salx said:


> Nice find, but hefty impedance on those Feg (2.2 Ohm: at least they quote it!). Have emailed Beyer about these: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/accessories/custom-headset-gear.html. Can't imagine they're any better impedance wise, but seeing as the stock cable on the X1 is 1.8 Ohm you never know. Also both cost a lot, _but at least both are ideal if you're lucky to use headphones with detachable cables _
> 
> Also check out these - pretty decent reviews: http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/


 
  
 Yes, the Beyerdynamic is even better. I'll build a headset with the upcoming Custome One Tesla.


----------



## SaLX

Tesla's any good for gaming?
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/669824/upcoming-beyerdynamic-headphones-custom-one-tesla-custom-one-studio-t51p-and-amp-a20


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes. I liked the T90 very much for it's imaging and clarity and being quite fast, the T1 is better balanced though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

eclipse- said:


> My sound card is the one that comes from Maximus vi impact, Do I still need to buy a mix amp to have a better sound quality?Headphone choices are AKG K701 or AKG K702 or Senheiser HD598. I would be using this for games,music, and movies.
> 
> on the side note I still haven't bought that yet, still researching if the on board sound card is good.


 
 The Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, $26 ($10 mail in rebate this month, Amazon), would be a better value for use with a Win PC, over the Mix-amp.
  
 Sound card wise, the Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $100, should offer audio quality improvements, over the motherboard's on-board audio.

 What is the make and model of your motherboard?
  
 The Sennheiser HD558, $130, uses the same driver as the HD598, just different cup design.


----------



## Evshrug

ordokon said:


> After some research I find that AKG Q701 is too expensive for me (I am from Czech Republic and price here is 400$, and with earpads and amp it will be too much expensive). So I am thinking about Sony MDR MA900, these looks pretty nice and according to reviews they are good (and also price is nice). But do I still need a headphone amp with MA900 (which advised me Evshrug and PurpleAngel, FiiO E09k), or my Xonar DX is enough to MA900?
> And I got advice to look on the AKG K612 pro. Could someone tell me something about K612, if they are also good for gaming, cause I didnt find some information and experiences with gaming. I read some review here on head-fi, comparision between K612 and K702, but still want to know your opinion guys, which one you think is better.
> Thank you for all replies and advices.




The MA900 isn't actually hard to drive... It will likely sound good straight from the sound card. That was actually a strength and appeal of the Sony MA900... You probably don't need to add any special amping.

I haven't heard the K612, it just seems appealing to me from reviews as a less expensive headphone that hopefully shares similarities to the headphones I use (and love) now.



-----
Mad,
I definitely hear a change in soundstage with different amps, particularly with my tube amp and some tubes. I'm not the only person who hears less congestion when a headphone is powered well, and I don't know what it is about tubes but my two favorites just make the soundstage more real for me.


----------



## Change is Good

FWIW, my M-Stage has a larger soundstage than my E12 and iCAN (even with its 3D switch on high). That's about the only difference my ears can distinguish between them, though.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I hope Mad (or Chico, Change, or heck even myself) get the urge to try these K612s out, seems like they could be a great "flagship-lite" experience.


 
  
 I doubt I'll ever venture to try the K612. It seems I have reached the end of my journey (for now) as I am extremely happy with the K712 and MDs.
  
 I _am _curious, however, about them and wouldn't mind demoing a pair if ever given the chance...


----------



## miceblue

But the Profits say The Great Journey to salvation must go on!

That being said, I'm probably going to hold off on buying new gear too. I'll give the Alpha Dogs a listen and be done with buying audio gear for a while.


----------



## conquerator2

On a totally different sidenote, I am very much looking forward to the ATH-A900X :]
 I can feel I will really like it. + plus its gonna be an import straight from Japan, which is awesome 
 IF the 3D wing "headband" fits me and if I have a good pair, everything should work out fine.
 [There were a bunch of defective pairs with driver/frequency imbalance, bass issues, etc, but it seem sto relate to a single or two batches, hopefully :]]
  
 I am almost certain they will be better than what MLE said. I just know it 
  
 Anyway, will report back once I get them. Could be a week, or a month...
  
 My open reference will be the HE-6, close-backs will be Pro 900 and IEM will be RE-400, so I might contrast that.
  
 [For a very complete review, check my signature ]


----------



## kman1211

ordokon said:


> After some research I find that AKG Q701 is too expensive for me (I am from Czech Republic and price here is 400$, and with earpads and amp it will be too much expensive). So I am thinking about Sony MDR MA900, these looks pretty nice and according to reviews they are good (and also price is nice). But do I still need a headphone amp with MA900 (which advised me Evshrug and PurpleAngel, FiiO E09k), or my Xonar DX is enough to MA900?
> And I got advice to look on the AKG K612 pro. Could someone tell me something about K612, if they are also good for gaming, cause I didnt find some information and experiences with gaming. I read some review here on head-fi, comparision between K612 and K702, but still want to know your opinion guys, which one you think is better.
> Thank you for all replies and advices.


 

 I have a Xonar DX and the MA900, yes it is enough, I do like them more with an amp though. I don't have the K612 but it is my next headphone, not sure when I'm getting it though. Whenever I do get the K612, I will be comparing the MA900 and K612.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, sure Conq, nobody's saying they're BAD headphones, and if you've already got your mind set then I think you will enjoy them. If your head isn't quite wide, you can improve comfort by bending the "bars" slightly to make the pads rest flush against the side of your head. Some people like to wind a rubber band between the "wings" too.


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> I have a Xonar DX and the MA900, yes it is enough, I do like them more with an amp though. I don't have the K612 but it is my next headphone, not sure when I'm getting it though. Whenever I do get the K612, I will be comparing the MA900 and K612.




Sweet, man!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Yeah, sure Conq, nobody's saying they're BAD headphones, and if you've already got your mind set then I think you will enjoy them. If your head isn't quite wide, you can improve comfort by bending the "bars" slightly to make the pads rest flush against the side of your head. Some people like to wind a rubber band between the "wings" too.


 
 Yeah, read that.
 I hope they will fit from the get go. If not, then some tweaking will take place. Not gonna give up on them easily.
 It's just that MLE said they were rather terrible but the way he described them just don't fit anything I read. And there are positive reviews on these throughout... Well, as far as sound quality goes 
  
 I guess he just didn't like them for some reason. Well, we all hear differently :]
  
 Anyway, I'll report back to confirm if it's truth or fiction :]
 Soon...
  
 Cya then, and thanks :]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Impressions are almost always glowing on every headphone reviewed wherever you go. Headphone reviews almost never border on the negative side. Negative reviews tend to be from people who whine about the headphone breaking on them, and not about actual quality.

I haven't had an extensive time with the A900x, but all I know is that for the price... I'd easily go for cheaper headphones which definitely sound better to me.

We do all hear things differently, but I like to believe my impressions tend to fit the general impression of headphones, when it comes to sound signature and overall quality.

The A900x came off as rather boring and overpriced. It lacked energy, impact, and weight. It sounded rather flat and just.... there. There was nothing engaging about it's sound. Not the bass, not the mids, not the soundstage, nothing. If I wanted something bland, I'd have paid less than $100 for something else that isn't going to inspire me in any way.

I found the Audio technica's own ESW9 to be much more engaging and lively, with better impact, better interpretation of vocals, and a great tonality. Yes, it's on ear, but it trumps the A900x in everything but sheer size.

As for the K550, I won't even go there. It seems so ridiculously sensitive to seal and placement, I call it a fail in design. I literally had to press the cups to my ears to hear anything remotely worthwhile. If I let it sit there... it was... just not good.

I tell you what, I'll go to a few different stores and demo both again, and take my E17 again. I'll give them a longer demo. I don't expect my impressions to change, but I will at least attempt to hone in on the specific qualities of it (or lack therof). it's been awhile since I heard them. All I know, is that they did nothing for me every single time.

Nothing will ever be fully proven as it is a Magnolia section demo (the Magnolia sections near where I live are actually pretty quiet), but if the ESW9, Momentum, and HD558 can impress at the store, I see no reason why the A900x shouldn't.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Impressions are almost always glowing on every headphone reviewed wherever you go. Headphone reviews almost never border on the negative side. Negative reviews tend to be from people who whine about the headphone breaking on them, and not about actual quality.
> 
> I haven't had an extensive time with the A900x, but all I know is that for the price... I'd easily go for cheaper headphones which definitely sound better to me.
> 
> ...


 
 OK, MLE. That would actually be awesome.
  
 But I find that impression... I dunno, strange.
  
 Every review is subjective  of course but if you search for them here on head-fi, there are like 4 reviews and I went pretty much through countless google searches and read many review on them and the words "boring" or "bland" or "not lively"... They just don't fit there. They ain't there.
 Treble - extended, detailed, beautiful
 Midrange - full, luscious
 Lows - punchy, tight, sometimes a bit too pronounced, roll-off bellow 50hz, so not very extended I guess, EQ helps there if problematic
 Soundstage - awesome for a closed can, more wide than deep but very well defined
 Instrument separation - great, easily pin-pointable
  
 Great for music, gaming & movies...
  
 That's pretty much what pretty much every review said.
 Energetic, fun but still close to balanced, slightly south of neutral.
  
 It's just the polar opposite of what you said, that's what bothers me.
  
 SAID THAT, there have been quite a few defective pairs. Maybe the one you demoed were? I know two batches were defective, or at least a good bunch of these [namely 03 and 05-2012 I think].
 These might exhibit such flaws. Don't really know...
  
 I am not questioning your ears. Perhaps, you have different preferences? My reference headphone is the HE-6.
 But a guy here has a similar setup to me and found the A-900X very good for their price [in comparison to the HE-6 for instance] so... I just dunno.
  
 I guess. Yeah, if you could demo them once again, that'd be great :]


----------



## ethan7000

mad lust envy said:


> Impressions are almost always glowing on every headphone reviewed wherever you go. Headphone reviews almost never border on the negative side. Negative reviews tend to be from people who whine about the headphone breaking on them, and not about actual quality.



This is an important point. You can see why it happens though; whenever someone knocks a hp, they get a disproportionate amount if backlash for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is no advancement if all you ever hear is glowing reviews. I try my best to be honest when it comes to what sounds good and what doesn't.

Hell, Astro sent me the A50s, and I couldn't recommend that even if they gave me money.

I TRY to see the positive on a headphone even if I don't particularly like them overall (Nuforce HP-800).

There just wasn't anything that stuck out positively for me on both the K550 and A900x. Right next to both of those was the HD558. I didn't even LOVE the HD598 for anything other than competitive gaming, and nowadays, I'm doing my best to let people know if a headphone is a one trick pony or not (*cough*AD700*cough*). Yet the HD558 was well balanced, engaging, smooth, and airy. All this from a store demo... AND it's an open headphone. You'd think the impression would've been worse, not better.

The Momentum and ESW9 are also easily enjoyable, with no real need to focus and try to find some good traits. They shower you with good traits.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah but it's right here. Search head-fi.
 4 positive reviews, 1 negative due to fit but still comments positively on the sound.
 No negative reviews on Amazon, Ebay, Youtube,... nowhere.
  
 Even for some of the well acclaimed headphones I know, I'be always found a negative review somewhere around these sites.
  
 With these, none. Just none and if there is, it's only the fit.
  
 You are literary the first negative impression I read on them... They are regularly compared to some of your favorite HPs [K702s, Q701s, and DT-990 a lot]
  
 And they come close to them with some redeeming quality to them. 4s and 5 stars...
  
 I mean, go figure... I find that real strange... Praise, praise everywhere..
  
 Now look for the AD-700/900 - lots of negative reviews among the positive ones... Hmmm, I don't have a clue :O


----------



## Change is Good

Maybe those are his impressions due to a bad fit? You guys seem under the impression that Mad is PURPOSELY bashing them. As he mentioned, all his reviews (like everyone else) are subjective to HIS opinion while still looking to point out the GOOD in a headphone no matter how much he dislikes it.

If the A900X sounded bland to him then it more than likely did. Why it did is what should be in question (bad fit?)... not him.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Maybe those are his impressions due to a bad fit? You guys seem under the impression that Mad is PURPOSELY bashing them. As he mentioned, all his reviews (like everyone else) are subjective to HIS opinion while still looking to point out the GOOD in a headphone no matter how much he dislikes it.
> 
> If the A900X sounded bland to him then it more than likely did. Why it did is what should be in question (bad fit?)... not him.




Well that is exactly what I am trying to find out...
That is why I pointed out a defective pair, etc.
I'm certainly not trying to imply he's trying to bash them.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Was wondering what sound card I should get when I buy my PC.
 Right now my budget is around $50 but I want to know if its worth it now or wait to get more money for one?


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> There is no advancement if all you ever hear is glowing reviews. I try my best to be honest when it comes to what sounds good and what doesn't.
> 
> Hell, Astro sent me the A50s, and I couldn't recommend that even if they gave me money.
> 
> ...


 

 That is true. I noticed too many positive reviews on so many headphones that I don't see why they get a good review, maybe because they do a couple things right. There are a couple headphones I dislike that are popular here because I felt they were one one trick ponies or just straight up boring or unpleasant to me. I have gotten some beef for bringing them up.
  
 The HD 558 is basically a darker and warmer HD 598, right? I thought the HD 598 was nice but wasn't quite warm enough to be a true all-arounder. But it was a lot better than the HD 555, that is one boring and soulless headphone, I did not like it at all.
  
 I agree with the Momentum, sounded good overall, if I were to be picky about the sound, it had a spike somewhere in the treble or upper midrange, but it is so uncomfortable, clamped too much and pressed the edges of my ears to my head, could only handle them 10 minutes on my head, I have a fairly big head and big ears. I liked the Momentum On-ear a lot better than the regular Momentum, much much more comfortable and I liked it's sound a little more.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> That is true. I noticed too many positive reviews on so many headphones that I don't see why they get a good review, maybe because they do a couple things right. There are a couple headphones I dislike that are popular here because I felt they were one one trick ponies or just straight up boring or unpleasant to me. I have gotten some beef for bringing them up.
> 
> The HD 558 is basically a darker and warmer HD 598, right? I thought the HD 598 was nice but wasn't quite warm enough to be a true all-arounder. But it was a lot better than the HD 555, that is one boring and soulless headphone, I did not like it at all.
> 
> I agree with the Momentum, sounded good overall, if I were to be picky about the sound, it had a spike somewhere in the treble or upper midrange, but it is so uncomfortable, clamped too much and pressed the edges of my ears to my head, could only handle them 10 minutes on my head, I have a fairly big head and big ears. I liked the Momentum On-ear a lot better than the regular Momentum, much much more comfortable and I liked it's sound a little more.




Yes I just find it weird for the reasons I mentioned above.
If a headphone does something badly enough there is bound to be a review somewhere... Most likely here but definitely some at Amazon and Google...

ATH-900X? Like what, 2 negative comments about the bass a bit too boomy sometimes, treble maybe a bit too hot at one point?
If anything it was because the headphone was found too exciting one way or another.

But no boring, bland, lifeless... None of that regard...


----------



## chicolom

> Originally Posted by *conquerator2* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> But I find that impression... I dunno, strange.
> 
> ...


 


conquerator2 said:


> Yeah but it's right here. Search head-fi.
> 4 positive reviews, 1 negative due to fit but still comments positively on the sound.
> 
> You are literary the first negative impression I read on them...


 
  
  
 Conquerator, stop trying to convince MLE's that he should have enjoyed them and just* try them for yourself.* 
  
 Trying to change MLE's mind about them is just a waste of time.  Maybe they didn't fit him right, or maybe he actually DID find them a bit bland sounding.  Either way, who cares. As long you like them that's ALL that matters, and the ONLY way you'll find that out is by actually trying them for yourself.


----------



## Mackem

Does the PC350 SE sound decent? I'm looking for a closed headset since there's a lot of background noise since I have to share a room.


----------



## widdyjudas

Conq, if you want to buy a cans, try them yourself. Dont buy it based on other people review. Use the review as selection guide. 
I learned my lesson with the m50. Every review said it sound good and comfy. When I bought it, the sound is not as good as reviewed imo and very cramped. Its also very uncomfortable for me, clampy, leather cup is hot and sweaty, and earcup not big enough. Even with mle strecth mod, the m50 is still very uncomfortable for me.
Not saying that the m50 is a garbage, but its just not for me. I also find that the audio technica ad series is comfortable, while many people bashing its wing system.
Dont take someone else review as an absolute point to buy a cans.


----------



## Kamakahah

conquerator2 said:


> Yes I just find it weird for the reasons I mentioned above.
> If a headphone does something badly enough there is bound to be a review somewhere... Most likely here but definitely some at Amazon and Google...
> 
> ATH-900X? Like what, 2 negative comments about the bass a bit too boomy sometimes, treble maybe a bit too hot at one point?
> ...




You guys might be forgetting about perspective. 

At one point I thought the ATH-M50'S were all I needed. Not long after I tired some other cans. Going back to the M50s left me wondering What I was thinking. 

The more you get to try different signature and qualities of headphones, the more your perspective changes on what you perceive as "good". 

He'll, joker just did his 300th review. It was on the JH13 PRO FP and it changed his perspective on a number of aspects of SQ and what CIEMs are capable of doing. 

Point being, MLE's perspective and tastes, (as a result), are simply different. 

As mentioned above, use reviews to narrow down those headphones that seem to be what you want and then try them yourself. 
There are countless times that certain rigs did not match at all what I had expected based on
reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That being said, I still very much enjoy the M50s. While tastes will evolve, you can still go back to a pair of headphones and see why you liked them.

Though my tastes have evolved quite a bit too, as I no longer look for bass and treble centric headphones, and now favor a warmer, bass to mid focused headphone with softer treble. Still, I enjoy energetic cans now and then. I would still love the DT990.


----------



## Kamakahah

Agreed. I still love the M50s when I watch action movies or while playing certain games. 

But when I use them for music, I can't help but notice its shortcomings; Especially so after being acustom to a more refined sound without revisiting the M50s for an extended period of time.


----------



## widdyjudas

Joker's review making me even more to buy a ciem. Been eyeing the um miracle for long time, but the jh13 pro review changed my mind.
However, living in hk and china makes me difficult to purchase a ciem, and it becomes overpriced if I want a store to help me.
My music taste also evolved since i have the he400. Now I'm looking for more refined cans instead of a bassy one. Dont know how to describe it properly, but my taste seems to lean toward balanced with slight bass and airy more soundstage type.
My problem with m50 mainly with the comfort. Sound wise its just ok, but not as good as reviewed imo.


----------



## Kamakahah

I finally gave in and purchased a CIEM as well. The curiosity got the best of me and I just have to know if they will work for me. 

Should arrive in about a week, hopefully. 

It's a big decision/investment. Resale value is trashed if you don't like them. Dealing with refit issues overseas and those extended wait times could be a nightmare. 
But the it could be all worth it. 

Personally I chose a company very close by to mitigate a number of those negative aspects. 

Good luck choosing =).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like sticking anything inside my ear, so I personally would never spend a lot on any in ear models. I was eyeing the Philips S2 when I got desperate for a portable, for a while though.

I still have a craving for the Momentum On Ear.


----------



## ethan7000

kamakahah said:


> I finally gave in and purchased a CIEM as well. The curiosity got the best of me and I just have to know if they will work for me.
> 
> Should arrive in about a week, hopefully.
> 
> ...



I'd be interested to know how it compares to universals. Never tried a universal I liked and I've tried a few pricey ones.


----------



## conquerator2

widdyjudas said:


> Conq, if you want to buy a cans, try them yourself. Dont buy it based on other people review. Use the review as selection guide.
> I learned my lesson with the m50. Every review said it sound good and comfy. When I bought it, the sound is not as good as reviewed imo and very cramped. Its also very uncomfortable for me, clampy, leather cup is hot and sweaty, and earcup not big enough. Even with mle strecth mod, the m50 is still very uncomfortable for me.
> Not saying that the m50 is a garbage, but its just not for me. I also find that the audio technica ad series is comfortable, while many people bashing its wing system.
> Dont take someone else review as an absolute point to buy a cans.




They are said to be a noticeable step up from the M50s, with a somewhat different signature...
You're right, I will find out 
Wish me luck though ;D


----------



## widdyjudas

I'm using ie8 right now. With the correct eq, it almost got the sound I liked, balanced with bit bass and airy, out of your head soundstage.
I think pricey universal like akg k3003 is able to compete with hi end ciem, but i want balanced armature as my next iem, preferably ciem. 
My choice is between um miracle or jh13 pro. With um, i dont need to worry for refit, since the factory is in China, despide its aussie based. Still, the payment method is rather difficult for me, since i dont have a credit card...
Momentum on ear is tempting to... those pads looks very comfy. Too bad there are no test unit on the cans store and its rather expensive, at 300usd.


----------



## Eclipse-

purpleangel said:


> The Asus Xonar DG (PCI) sound card, $26 ($10 mail in rebate this month, Amazon), would be a better value for use with a Win PC, over the Mix-amp.
> 
> Sound card wise, the Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $100, should offer audio quality improvements, over the motherboard's on-board audio.
> 
> ...


 

 Motherboard http://www.asus.com/ROG_ROG/MAXIMUS_VI_IMPACT/ , I like the looks of 598 it looks so foamy or do they provide same comfort?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

598 is a bit clampy, and the pads are a little on the harder side. Still, I find them decent in comfort.


----------



## PurpleAngel

eclipse- said:


> Motherboard http://www.asus.com/ROG_ROG/MAXIMUS_VI_IMPACT/ , I like the looks of 598 it looks so foamy or do they provide same comfort?


 

 Looks like your motherboard comes with a fairly decent on-board audio, guess it will do a good job driving the HD598, on it's own.
 I'm very comfortable with having my HD558s on, never tried the HD598, I assumed they had the same comfort level


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it does. They're relatively comfy. There's better, but the light weight and velour pads makes them at least good all around.

I do find the HD650 to be more comfortable (after the clamp is lessened).


----------



## Eclipse-

mad lust envy said:


> 598 is a bit clampy, and the pads are a little on the harder side. Still, I find them decent in comfort.


 
  
  


purpleangel said:


> Looks like your motherboard comes with a fairly decent on-board audio, guess it will do a good job driving the HD598, on it's own.
> I'm very comfortable with having my HD558s on, never tried the HD598, I assumed they had the same comfort level


 

 thanks for the help, and this guide really really astonishing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you can afford it, i would highly recommend you get the Sony MA900 over both the 558/598. It's a better can overall, and more comfortable. It's also priced basically the same as the 598 (it may be a smidge more than the 598).

There are a few headphones I'm incredibly passionate about, and I will always recommend them, depending on price bracket:

1. K702 Anniversary / K712 Pro

2. Sony MA900

3. KSC35/Sportapro/KSC75

All of them have generally balanced sound signatures for all around use, and ought to make most people quite happy.

And for the inner basshead inside most of us:

1. Denon D7000 (good luck finding one)

2. Philips Fidelio X1


----------



## benbenkr

If you can't find at Denon D7000, get a Fostex TH-600.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want to try them. I regret backing out on the Headamp demo.


----------



## SaLX

How are the Sony's wearing in after months of abuse all you MA900 owners? They look flimsy, but can they indeed endure the test of time?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think it's less the abuse of time, and more the abuse of the owner. As long as you aren't hapzardly yanking the cable or extending the arms from the wrong place, I don't see them breaking at all.

That and the black matte finish and aluminum grills make it easier for me to toss around in a bag, than headphones with pretty finishes.

As for me, the MA900 has been away from my hands longer than I've had them at home. Anxious to get them back in a few days. It's like getting a new headphone all over again. Been basically 1 month since I've loaned them out to the guys. I had it for like two weeks in my hand. I sent them out basically soon after I reviewed it which was early September.


----------



## miceblue

Huh...I'm curious to try this game now.
 It's not every day you hear a reviewer say "throw on a good pair of headphones, hit the lights, and enjoy."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> Huh...I'm curious to try this game now.
> It's not every day you hear a reviewer say "throw on a good pair of headphones, hit the lights, and enjoy."




That game is a MASTERPIECE. When I can say I teared up at the end, and not because it was sad.... that says a lot. That game moved me emotionally, and there isn't even any voices..

GET IT. GET IT NOW. It's short, but OH SO WORTH IT.

Really, shut yourself away from the outside world, and focus on the game from beginning to end. Don't let anything distract you.


----------



## ethan7000

mad lust envy said:


> 1. Denon D7000 (good luck finding one)



Great price on one:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686654/fs-denon-d-7000-with-brand-new-lawton-pads-shipping-included


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is a very good price, considering he's including the Lawton Pads. Still, I wish his original pads were in good condition.

Not that it makes a diff. I can't afford it.

realistically speaking, it's around how much I would be willing to pay, as it's around what i paid for both the D7000s I bought + lawton pads (which I was gonna buy s well).

But the paypal feels + shipping puts them at a pretty rough price, close enough to TH600 prices.


----------



## ethan7000

mad lust envy said:


> That is a very good price, considering he's including the Lawton Pads. Still, I wish his original pads were in good condition.
> 
> Not that it makes a diff. I can't afford it.
> 
> ...



True, but I don't think as many people realize that. I see the 7000 go for $800-$950 on eBay without the Lawton pads. 

On another note, my L1 is not selling so if you want to review it for your guide while you're MA900-less, maybe we can figure out some economical shipping for it.


----------



## designbykai

benbenkr said:


> If you can't find at Denon D7000, get a Fostex TH-600.



+1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ethan7000 said:


> True, but I don't think as many people realize that. I see the 7000 go for $800-$950 on eBay without the Lawton pads.
> 
> On another note, my L1 is not selling so if you want to review it for your guide while you're MA900-less, maybe we can figure out some economical shipping for it.




That's very nice of you. 

sadly, I have offers for the K712, T90, Alpha Dogs, and some others I can't even begin to remember, and right now, I don't have much money nor a proper amp for most of these. The L1 is definitely more achievable, but I should be getting the MA900 by around Wednesday if my calculations are correct. I think I want to get the Alpha Dogs out of the way first and foremost, which won't be for awhile.


----------



## ethan7000

mad lust envy said:


> That's very nice of you.
> 
> sadly, I have offers for the K712, T90, Alpha Dogs, and some others I can't even begin to remember, and right now, I don't have much money nor a proper amp for most of these. The L1 is definitely more achievable, but I should be getting the MA900 by around Wednesday if my calculations are correct. I think I want to get the Alpha Dogs out of the way first and foremost, which won't be for awhile.



Gotcha. You're gonna love the AD, maybe not for gaming though.



designbykai said:


> +1



Could you give me your impressions on the E17 vs the D1?


----------



## widdyjudas

mad lust envy said:


> That game is a MASTERPIECE. When I can say I teared up at the end, and not because it was sad.... that says a lot. That game moved me emotionally, and there isn't even any voices..
> 
> GET IT. GET IT NOW. It's short, but OH SO WORTH IT.
> 
> Really, shut yourself away from the outside world, and focus on the game from beginning to end. Don't let anything distract you.



I cant see what game is that? The link is being banned by the great communism censorship...
Please review the k712 first  since it will be out here soon and wanting to hear early impression of it. Are the e12 or 17 not powerful enoug for the akg or md?


----------



## conquerator2

widdyjudas said:


> I cant see what game is that? The link is being banned by the great communism censorship...
> Please review the k712 first
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Can't you really tell it's Journey? Well, I guess :]


----------



## widdyjudas

Nop, the link is blocked here, youtube link i assumed?
Journey is ps3 right? Nevermind then.
So regretted i choose 360 over ps3 before. So many exclusives that i missed, and i'm too cheap to buy ps3 now when ps4 is almost out.


----------



## Eclipse-

mad lust envy said:


> If you can afford it, i would highly recommend you get the Sony MA900 over both the 558/598. It's a better can overall, and more comfortable. It's also priced basically the same as the 598 (it may be a smidge more than the 598).
> 
> There are a few headphones I'm incredibly passionate about, and I will always recommend them, depending on price bracket:
> 
> ...


 

 I might go with that, never would have thought Sony has great headphones too, I like Sony products. 
  
 Is it Durable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It looks flimsy, but as long as youre not abusive, I don't see them being problematic.


----------



## miceblue

mad lust envy said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > Huh...I'm curious to try this game now.
> ...


 
 Wow, that must be a pretty epic game then. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I actually don't have a PS3, but I might be able to play the game from my friend's PS3. I was going to go over to his place and play it, but it seems that I might have to take home the PS3 for a day to play it instead. 
  
 I was wondering who those characters were for the longest time. I went to a local anime convention earlier this year and a couple people were cosplaying as the hooded figures.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's an experience. The music, the characters, the JOURNEY...and in the end there is a massive payoff to beating the game...

If you can help it, try and wait for another person to join... it makes tbe journey soooo much more satisfying, because you feel like you struggled with someone else. I dunno. That game to me is a game I will never, ever forget.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I bought Journey during a sale a while back. At under $4 (with PS+), why not?
  
 I've actually bought a few games off PSN here and there, most recently Okami HD and D&D: Chronicles of Mystara.
  
 (Normally, I'd buy the latter on PC, and I probably will when the inevitable Steam sale hits, but a game like that just has to be played in the university game room, with people on couches next to you. I don't trust my little HP 2730p with its godawful Intel graphics to be capable of running any PC game these days.)


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> How are the Sony's wearing in after months of abuse all you MA900 owners? They look flimsy, but can they indeed endure the test of time?



They still looked pristine by the time I shipped them to Calpis. The person before me (MattTCG? Change?) did a really tidy job wrapping the cable too. They may not be suitable to chuck into a backpack, but really they only LOOK flimsy because of the size ratio between the headband and earcups.



widdyjudas said:


> I cant see what game is that? The link is being banned by the great communism censorship...
> Please review the k712 first  since it will be out here soon and wanting to hear early impression of it. Are the e12 or 17 not powerful enoug for the akg or md?



YouTube stuff gets blocked on my iPhone sometimes too. The game is Journey, I know it's on the PS3 but it may be on PC too? At any rate, I sure hope they make it available to download on PS4. I really enjoyed the demo of the game at our Walmart, even though as always I'm reminded how much I dislike Playstation controllers.


----------



## calpis

Journey won't ever be on any other competing platforms since it was basically all funded by Sony.


----------



## Eclipse-

mad lust envy said:


> It looks flimsy, but as long as youre not abusive, I don't see them being problematic.


 
 thanks, It really looks like it will break anytime, might go with K701 because of mio. I like anime stuffs will my soundcard
  
 be able to drive, does AKG offers international warranty like Sony?


----------



## widdyjudas

evshrug said:


> They still looked pristine by the time I shipped them to Calpis. The person before me (MattTCG? Change?) did a really tidy job wrapping the cable too. They may not be suitable to chuck into a backpack, but really they only LOOK flimsy because of the size ratio between the headband and earcups.
> YouTube stuff gets blocked on my iPhone sometimes too. The game is Journey, I know it's on the PS3 but it may be on PC too? At any rate, I sure hope they make it available to download on PS4. I really enjoyed the demo of the game at our Walmart, even though as always I'm reminded how much I dislike Playstation controllers.




Youtube is being blocked in China completely, along with facebook, twitter, blog and other download host sites.
I dont really care for those sites, but banning download sites... its getting difficult to download jav here 
Journey is ps3 exclusive. I hope it will be available on ps4 later, along with ni no kuni, uncarted, killzone and god of war series. 
Damn, i really regret buying a 360 now...


----------



## widdyjudas

Imo, this is the best looking planar cans yet... Much better compared to Audeze and hifiman bland design.
 hope is sound good too and doesn't weight a ton. i wonder how will it do on gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Too much hype. Oppo hasn't proved anything yet with headphones.


----------



## widdyjudas

fegefeuer said:


> Too much hype. Oppo hasn't proved anything yet with headphones.


 

 Agreed it got too many hype, I never know oppo made a cans before. Its only known for smartphones in China.
 Still, its really a good looking planar phones imo. Hoped it sound as good as it's looks and good for game too.
 Like I said before, My guess they will have rough road on start. Give them few years and I think they might able to compete with hifiman.


----------



## RageSaul

Hi, I'm going for a pair of headphones under $300 for gaming (I will also get a snowball mic), but I'm really stuck on what to buy. The Philips Fidelio X1/00 ones look really good, and you rated them well. Would these be the best possible headphones I can buy for Battlefield 4? And will I need a soundcard?


----------



## Skipshrike

ragesaul said:


> Hi, I'm going for a pair of headphones under $300 for gaming (I will also get a snowball mic), but I'm really stuck on what to buy. The Philips Fidelio X1/00 ones look really good, and you rated them well. Would these be the best possible headphones I can buy for Battlefield 4? And will I need a soundcard?


 
  
 The X1's would serve you well in BF4. Another choice would be Sony's MA-900.
  
 A sound card isn't always required since most mother boards have on-board audio now. However, Creative's new Z series gives you a very nice surround sound experience. That Recon USB is well though of as well.


----------



## RageSaul

skipshrike said:


> The X1's would serve you well in BF4. Another choice would be Sony's MA-900.
> 
> A sound card isn't always required since most mother boards have on-board audio now. However, Creative's new Z series gives you a very nice surround sound experience. That Recon USB is well though of as well.


 
 I really don't like how flimsy the Sony ones look, plus the x1s seem to be better. Should I go for the x1s over the Sennheiser 558s?
  
  
 Hm, I'm thinking of going for the Asus Xonar DGX because going for a top notch sound card would be over my budget, I have a gigabyte UD3H Z77X motherboard, will I see much of a difference?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They LOOK flimsy. Unless you are a barbarian, the MA900 will be just as sturdy as most of headphones out there. For the few weeks I had them, I tossed the MA900s into my backpack every day for work, and I didn't think twice about it getting damaged or anything. Like I mentioned on the review, unless you start yanking on it's cable on a normal basis, you shouldn't have any issues with it.

The X1 will definitely not be as good as the MA900s for competitive gaming, but the X1 is my best recommendation for the price if you want a bass heavy headphone that does everything else relatively well.


----------



## RageSaul

Oh, I see, thanks but in the UK the x1s cost more than the Sony MA900s by £17. So should I go with the Sony's as they're cheaper than the x1s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That doesn't seem to be a large price difference. I'd recommend whichever you feel you'd be more happy with sound-wise. Bassy and more energetic, better build (but pads aren't replaceable) or warmer, more balanced, and less fatiguing?

Both of them are well worth their price. Both of them are very comfortable overall, and both of them are easy to drive.


----------



## RageSaul

I'm not a diehard competitive gamer, but I spend long hours on games on the PC. I like bass-heavy headphones, and comfortable ones. I think I may go with the X1s.
  
 Anyway, anything's better than my current Turtlebeach x12s right? xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 sounds like a perfect fit then. I highly doubt you'll be disappointed.


----------



## RageSaul

Great, thanks for your help.
  
 Also, I read in the first page that the cable is bad? Is that still an issue and if so what do I need to fix it?


----------



## ethan7000

But he's coming from the TB x12, known to best even the SR-009 in every possible category!


(Kidding Saul, you'll love the X1)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not that it's bad per se. The X1 will still sound great with it, but bad in terms of resistance and it somewhat limits the potential of the X1 overall. You can easily just buy almost ANY 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, and it will more than likely be better than the stock cable. Something as cheap and sturdy as the Monoprice cables, or Mediabridge cables sold on Amazon will be an improvement, however subtle. they're like less than $10 overall. You can go to any store and buy an mp3 cable, and it will more than likely be better.


----------



## miceblue

fegefeuer said:


> Too much hype. Oppo hasn't proved anything yet with headphones.


 
 What product has Jude talked about that doesn't receive hype.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thing is, Audeze was the same way, as was the Abyss planar. Upstarts which got a lot of hype, and ended up proving their worth. Oppo is not a new company and knows their stuff. I, frankly would believe in them more than the others.


----------



## RageSaul

Haha ok ethan 
  
 And thanks MLE, I'll buy one of those. Thanks for all your help.
  
 How does this look? : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pure-Shielded-3-5mm-Stereo-Cable/dp/B003PTZKDA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1382375299&sr=8-3&keywords=3.5mm+to+3.5mm+cable


----------



## conquerator2

ragesaul said:


> Haha ok ethan
> 
> And thanks MLE, I'll buy one of those. Thanks for all your help.
> 
> How does this look? : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pure-Shielded-3-5mm-Stereo-Cable/dp/B003PTZKDA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1382375299&sr=8-3&keywords=3.5mm+to+3.5mm+cable


 
  
 Seems good.
 They don't mention the cable's impedance but... Should be fine, I guess...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, it looks a bit too fat to sit right on the X1's cable jack. Try and get one with a piece that sits between the barrel and where the actual piece that goes inside the jack...

http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B004LTEUDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382377430&sr=8-1&keywords=mediabridge+cable+3.5mm

See?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

When I get a desktop PC I was wondering when I should get a sound card, if I get one now my budget would be around $50 I think.
 I would use the HD 558's with it and I would play mostly single player games like RPG's and some multyplayer FPS games on the side.


----------



## davisman

Most onboard sound cards are pretty bad. One of the best decisions I made when I started getting into headphones, was buying an Asus xonar stx.
  
 You dont need to spend that much, but there are some really good options around $50.


----------



## RageSaul

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, it looks a bit too fat to sit right on the X1's cable jack. Try and get one with a piece that sits between the barrel and where the actual piece that goes inside the jack...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B004LTEUDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382377430&sr=8-1&keywords=mediabridge+cable+3.5mm
> 
> See?


 
 Yeah I see, it's just they're not available on the UK amazon. I can't find any others with the design you said they needed for my country :/


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

davisman said:


> Most onboard sound cards are pretty bad. One of the best decisions I made when I started getting into headphones, was buying an Asus xonar stx.
> 
> You dont need to spend that much, but there are some really good options around $50.


 
 Can you give me a few name's? I checked the Asus xonar stx and it's too steep for my blood sadly.


----------



## Murder Mike

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Can you give me a few name's? I checked the Asus xonar stx and it's too steep for my blood sadly.


 
 Xonar DG or DGX. You could also pick up a used X-fi Titanium.


----------



## ethan7000

murder mike said:


> Xonar DG or DGX. You could also pick up a used X-fi Titanium.



DX if possible, I found the DGX to sound very dull.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my babies back!

Oh, how much I missed them!

Yes, I use plural when I speak of headphones. SUE ME.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

murder mike said:


> Xonar DG or DGX. You could also pick up a used X-fi Titanium.


 
 This what you mean? 
 http://www.amazon.com/Refurbished-Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-Titanium/dp/B00D62UYRS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382386888&sr=8-2&keywords=x+fi+titanium


----------



## Murder Mike

mrkingdomhearts said:


> This what you mean?
> http://www.amazon.com/Refurbished-Sound-Blaster-X-Fi-Titanium/dp/B00D62UYRS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1382386888&sr=8-2&keywords=x+fi+titanium


 
 Yep.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I think I'll go for the Titanium since I hear alot of good things about it.
 Question is it a pain to install for a windows 7 machine?


----------



## jude

fegefeuer said:


> Too much hype. Oppo hasn't proved anything yet with headphones.


 
  
 Hype? Yeah, there'll be some. From what I can tell, though, people are mostly commenting on its styling, which is understandable. I mean..._look_ at it.
  
 Oppo's making a headphone. It was a surprise to many (certainly to me anyway). That's worthy of discussion here.
  
 Some people get all bent out of shape because we as a headphone audio community might want to talk about it a lot...discuss what we hope it'll be like, what we hope it'll sound like...on a _headphone audio_ forum. Should we pretend it's not happening?
  
 On car forums, people get excited--and, yes, sometimes hyped-up--about the announcement of a new car, before anyone's actually driven it. On camera forums, people get excited about the announcement of a new camera, before anyone's shot a photo with it. Have you ever been to a forum that covers mobile phone technology? And here, at what has to be one of the busiest of all places in the world for the discussion of headphone audio, we're going to get excited about new headphone and audio gear announcements.
  
 When we first opened up Head-Fi back in 2001--and for several years thereafter--we rarely had new stuff to discuss. Now we do.
  
 Hype? Yeah, that happens here, and, again, it also happens on just about every other forum about whatever topics and product types its focused on. And, as on those other forums, time proves the heroes after some of the initial excitement dies down. That excitement is called enthusiasm. And many of us...well, we're enthusiasts. It's fun.
  
 Here are some tips: don't spend money you haven't got. Don't only listen only to what I (or any other single person) has to say about something. Search the forums, do a little due diligence; reconcile what you're reading with your preferences, and hopefully increase your chance at successfully finding stuff that sounds great to you. You'll find people who review gear whose preferences are reliably more in line with yours, and that's helpful. You'll find people who review gear whose preferences are reliably the polar opposite of yours, and that's helpful, too.
  
 You ever go to a Head-Fi Meet, and see the looks on faces of the first-timers (and even many seasoned meet veterans, myself included) as they walk the floor, excitedly looking at gear they've been reading about and wanting to hear, with their chance to finally do that at hand? That'll always be the essence of this place, as far as I'm concerned. Shared enthusiasm.
  
 Anyway, sorry to go a bit off the "headphone gaming guide" topic.


----------



## Change is Good

jude said:


> Hype? Yeah, there'll be some. From what I can tell, though, people are mostly commenting on its styling, which is understandable. I mean..._look_ at it.
> 
> Oppo's making a headphone. It was a surprise to many (certainly to me anyway). That's worthy of discussion here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The paragraph in bold should be a disclaimer on the front page of this thread... very well said.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. ONLY LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

:veryevil:


----------



## RageSaul

Uh, MLE they don't sell those 3.5mm in that design in the UK... I can't find any  on amazon. The one you said I should buy is the USA one which don't deliver to the UK.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There has to be SOMETHING with that step on the plug. But it's not a necessity. Just try and find a cable that doesn't have a thick barrel. Too thick a barrel without that extra piece may keep the plug from inserting completely.


----------



## Change is Good

Local electronic store doesn't have anything?


----------



## Mackem

The Fidelio X1s look immense but they're open  One of the main problems I often find with headphones is that they press the arms of my glasses into the side of my head, making my glasses feel like they're squashed up against my head. I'd love a super comfortable pair of headphones for music and gaming but I tend to end up getting IEMs simply because they don't interfere with my glasses, don't cause me discomfort and nobody near me can hear what I am listening to. 
  
 Sigh.


----------



## RageSaul

Ah, yes. I've found this:
  
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stereo-AUX-IN-iPhone-smartphone-players/dp/B00CTWEHLU/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1382391066&sr=8-21&keywords=3.5mm+to+3.5mm
  
 Thanks, I think that's it


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

You think the KSC75 would be decent for handheld gaming and music on the go?
 I own the monoprice 8320 IEM's and while there are good they hurt my ears after awhile so i'm looking at clip ons since they look like an interesting option.


----------



## Change is Good

Hey chico,
  
 If you were to have to choose between the M-Stage and iCAN which would it be? I just ordered the Asgard 2 to pair with my MDs and will be looking to sell one of them. I am leaning towards keeping the M-Stage because it pairs so well with the K712.
  
 I'm going to miss those switches on the iCAN, though. The choice will not be easy... but one must go.
  
 Of course, I will be thoroughly testing the iCAN before selling (if I _do_ decide to sell it) beforehand to make sure there aren't any issues like the other day. So far everything has been working just fine. I think I might still send it in for replacement, though... just for peace of mind.


----------



## conquerator2

I am convinced. Gonna get the ATH-A900X [W1000X is too expensive :/ and it'd be a shame to use for portable use ]
 Many reliable head-fi sources tell me they are pretty good.
 Just don't tell MLE


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrkingdomhearts said:


> You think the KSC75
> would be decent for handheld gaming and music on the go?
> I own the monoprice 8320 IEM's and while there are good they hurt my ears after awhile so i'm looking at clip ons since they look like an interesting option.




Absolutely. Even better is if you get the Sportapro alongside the KSC75, and snap off the Sportapro drivers to use with the KSC75's clips. instant KSC35 (with comfier clips). Just bend the KSC75 clips inward, as when you get the out the package, the drivers are more separated from your ears than they should be for optimal sound quality.

conquer, like I said, I haven't had extensive sessions with the A900x. If you like it, that's great. For that price, I'd just save up for some Mad Dogs though.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

mad lust envy said:


> Absolutely. Even better is if you get the Sportapro alongside the KSC75, and snap off the Sportapro drivers to use with the KSC75's clips. instant KSC35 (with comfier clips). Just bend the KSC75 clips inward, as when you get the out the package, the drivers are more separated from your ears than they should be for optimal sound quality.
> 
> conquer, like I said, I haven't had extensive sessions with the A900x. If you like it, that's great. For that price, I'd just save up for some Mad Dogs though.


 
 Can you give me a link to the Sportapro I don't know if the one I'm looking at is the right one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Koss-155475-SportaPro-Stereo-Headphones/dp/B00001P505/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382393884&sr=8-1&keywords=sportapro

The drivers snap off, and can snap on to the KSC75's clips, no problems.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I think I'll just buy the KSC75 since I don't want to spend too much money right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's fair. the KSC75 is stellar. Just if you end up really liking it, get that Sportapro. Trust me.

Again, make sure you bend the clips inward so the drivers press towards your ears. If not, it will sound all bright and lack bass. Takes a few seconds, and you can bend them back out if it's too much.



make sure when you wear it, the ear lobe is between the driver and the clip, like how the KSC35 looks here. That is the correct way to wear the clip ons. If you don't have a hang ear lobe like I do, well, you may have to be creative. As long as the end of the clip is basically behind the ear lobe, you should be ok.

Yes, I know I had to shave that day.


----------



## pervysage

I just discovered Osu! (rhythm based game). Pretty bad ass and addicting. And you can enjoy music on your headphones at the same time, heh.
  
 So far I've just been finding beatmaps of my favorite anime songs. I'm still trying to get used to the game (failing a lot).... apparently it's easier if you are playing on a tablet. On the PC you are stuck using your mouse pretty much, but it's still really fun.
  
 Any other really good rhythm games out there? Only one I've really played before is Stepmania.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pervysage said:


> I just discovered Osu! (rhythm based game). Pretty bad ass and addicting. And you can enjoy music on your headphones at the same time, heh.
> 
> So far I've just been finding beatmaps of my favorite anime songs. I'm still trying to get used to the game (failing a lot).... apparently it's easier if you are playing on a tablet. On the PC you are stuck using your mouse pretty much, but it's still really fun.
> 
> Any other really good rhythm games out there? Only one I've really played before is Stepmania.




DJ Max Portable... though I guess you need a PSP/Vita for those. the PC had one IIRC, but I never played it. Rhythm Thief on the 3ds is pretty sweet too.


----------



## SaLX

mackem said:


> The Fidelio X1s look immense but they're open  One of the main problems I often find with headphones is that they press the arms of my glasses into the side of my head, making my glasses feel like they're squashed up against my head. I'd love a super comfortable pair of headphones for music and gaming but I tend to end up getting IEMs simply because they don't interfere with my glasses, don't cause me discomfort and nobody near me can hear what I am listening to.
> 
> Sigh.


 
 Why are there no headphones with glasses attached directly to _them_ instead?


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Absolutely. Even better is if you get the Sportapro alongside the KSC75, and snap off the Sportapro drivers to use with the KSC75's clips. instant KSC35 (with comfier clips). Just bend the KSC75 clips inward, as when you get the out the package, the drivers are more separated from your ears than they should be for optimal sound quality.
> 
> *conquer, like I said, I haven't had extensive sessions with the A900x. If you like it, that's great. For that price, I'd just save up for some Mad Dogs though.*


 
  
 Mad Dogs won't work for portability reasons. I mean I am planning to use them portable first hand and I am not gonna spending some money on portable gear any time soon.
  
 900X can be powered by my lowly Clip+. Mad Dogs, on the other hand... no way, right?
  
 They are just releasing the Alpha Dogs which are an improvement to them but are way above my budget.
  
 That said, I'd love to hear the Mad Dogs some day, but probably not now... Would be a waste IMO :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see the Alpha Dogs as a replacement but as a higher end alternative, since the tonal balance is gonna be different. Warm and intimate vs neutral and more spacious... though I haven't heard the AD yet so I can't say. I envision it as like the HD600 vs the HD650. They have their pros and cons.

But yeah, the MD probably won't sound amazing unamped.


----------



## pervysage

salx said:


> Why are there no headphones with glasses attached directly to _them_ instead?


 
  
 Heh, I've never really had any problems while wearing glasses with the Annies, X1's or TH900. In fact, my glasses are really loose fitting and always sliding down my nose, so the headphones actually help keep them in place 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I can see it being a problem with headphones that really clamp down on your head... but all of the above don't really do that.


----------



## kenshinhimura

conquerator2 said:


> Mad Dogs won't work for portability reasons. I mean I am planning to use them portable first hand and I am not gonna spending some money on portable gear any time soon.
> 
> 900X can be powered by my lowly Clip+. Mad Dogs, on the other hand... no way, right?
> 
> ...


 

 they actually sound ok out of the sansa clip zip but you have to have the volume at max.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Hey chico,
> 
> If you were to have to choose between the M-Stage and iCAN which would it be? I just ordered the Asgard 2 to pair with my MDs and will be looking to sell one of them. I am leaning towards keeping the M-Stage because it pairs so well with the K712.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a tough choice.  If I had to sell one I think it would be the M-stage, because I use the iCan a lot more often.   I just can't see myself selling it when I use the switches on it all the time for music and movies/shows.  I do like the M-stage better for gaming and when NOT using the switches (straight amping), but that's a smaller percentage of my usage/time.
  
  
 I think there's going to be more overlap between the M-stage and Asgard2 than with the iCan, so if it were me I'd sell one of those two "plain" desktop amps.
  
 If it were me I would *definitely wait and compare the M-stage and Asgard 2 directly* before I decided to sell anything.  The differences between _two decent solid state amps_ are way too subtle to really compare them from memory.  Without being able to compare the iCan and M-stage _directly, _I really couldn't tell you if there was any difference in their sound.  The same could likely be true for the M-stage and Asgard 2. 
  
 Most of the "M-stage Vs. Asgard" comparisons I've seen usually favor the M-stage.  And FWIR the Asgard 2 isn't that different sounding than the Asgard 1.  Yeah, maybe the extra power from the Asgard will make an audible improvement with Mad Dogs, but maybe not.  So I'd compare them first.


----------



## widdyjudas

mackem said:


> The Fidelio X1s look immense but they're open  One of the main problems I often find with headphones is that they press the arms of my glasses into the side of my head, making my glasses feel like they're squashed up against my head. I'd love a super comfortable pair of headphones for music and gaming but I tend to end up getting IEMs simply because they don't interfere with my glasses, don't cause me discomfort and nobody near me can hear what I am listening to.
> 
> Sigh.


 

 I'm also using glasses, and that is the reason why I'm very picky for full size cans.
 X1 clamp is not that hard, just right. It doesn't press my glasses hand and no discomfort at all for me. DT990 pro also comfortable for glasses user like us.
 Unlike the M50, even with the stretch mod, its still very painful because its pressing my glasses rather hard.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> That's a tough choice.  If I had to sell one I think it would be the M-stage, because I use the iCan a lot more often.   I just can't see myself selling it when I use the switches on it all the time for music and movies/shows.  I do like the M-stage better for gaming and when NOT using the switches (straight amping), but that's a smaller percentage of my usage/time.
> 
> 
> I think there's going to be more overlap between the M-stage and Asgard2 than with the iCan, so if it were me I'd sell one of those two "plain" desktop amps.
> ...


 
  
 Oh, I will definitely not be selling either the M-Stage or iCAN until I compare them to the AG2.
  
 If the AG2 _does not_ make an audible improvement to the MDs with its extra power than it will be returned. If it _does_, however, then that is when the decision will be difficult.
  
 You see, I also was thinking the M-Stage would be the one to go because of the iCAN's switches. But, like you, the M-Stage pairs better with the K712 than the iCAN to me when gaming. I, however, use the M-Stage much more for gaming than the iCAN with its switches on. The extra bass is nice when watching movies and such, but the 3D effect sounds almost artificial when using Dolby Headphone at the same time (so I barely use it when gaming). I get more satisfaction from the M-Stage and its natural openness in that regard, hence why the iCAN is on my desk for music rather than on my gaming rig. My desk is where the AG2 will be going as that is where my MDs are used the most... for my genre taste of music.
  
 This is when having two "plain" desktop amps won't be as overlapping for me, because each is specifically paired to match with a certain headphone and also for a specific purpose. Plus, both rigs are in different stations... not on the same desk.
  
 If things go as I expect it will still be hard to let the iCAN go, though...
  
 Decisions, decisions...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Got my babies back!
> 
> Oh, how much I missed them!
> 
> Yes, I use plural when I speak of headphones. SUE ME.




I'm so happy for you, Sue!



mad lust envy said:


> No. ONLY LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.
> 
> :veryevil:



Obey the overlord, obey, obey....



mackem said:


> One of the main problems I often find with headphones is that they press the arms of my glasses into the side of my head...



You ever consider... Different glasses frames? Kinda like those Gunnar gaming glasses, the frame is thin (and maybe close to your head) so they just slip right in under earpads.

Just thinking out of the box. 



mad lust envy said:


> Yes, I know I had to shave that day.




I thought you were going for the manly/ dangerous look.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> If the AG2 _does not_ make an audible improvement to the MDs with its extra power than it will be returned. If it _does_, however, then that is when the decision will be difficult.
> 
> This is when having two "plain" desktop amps won't be as overlapping for me, because each is specifically paired to match with a certain headphone and also for a specific purpose. Plus, both rigs are in different stations... not on the same desk.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I see. 
  
 I guess it will all come down to whether the Asgard gives any noticeable audible improvements to the Mad Dogs.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 For me the effect of the iCan's 3D soundstage switch is more significant, noticeable, and valuable than the effect of just jumping from one $250 solid state amp to another one.  In other words, in my experience jumping between two equally-priced "plain" solid state amps is too subtle a change for me to justify owing them both.  However, i CAN justify (<- get it? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) keeping both the M-stage and iCan as they offer more distinct differences in sound and thus how I use them.
  
 I haven't used Mad Dogs though, so I don't know how significant a difference they will show between two amps like the M-stage and Asgard 2. 
 I just know that I like the iCan enough that it would take a pretty special sounding amp to sound more special than it does for certain music/movies/shows.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> I haven't used Mad Dogs though, so I don't know how significant a difference they will show between two amps like the M-stage and Asgard 2.
> I just know that I like the iCan enough that it would take a pretty special sounding amp to sound more special than it does for certain music/movies/shows.


 
  
 Yeah, with the MD being a planar and power hungry that is why I scratched the itch and went with something a bit more powerful. Whether I went powerful _enough_ to justify any improvement or not is the question at hand.
  
 MLE, you have enough experience with planars and high powered amps right? What are your thoughts? Will the AG2 be a nice enough jump in output power to justify any improvements on the MD? I know you haven't used any of these amps being discussed, but your experience with the issue at hand could help me out.


----------



## Eclipse-

do headphone price drops fast?


----------



## Fegefeuer

jude said:


> Hype? Yeah, there'll be some. From what I can tell, though, people are mostly commenting on its styling, which is understandable. I mean..._look_ at it.
> 
> Oppo's making a headphone. It was a surprise to many (certainly to me anyway). That's worthy of discussion here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You could have asked me if I disdain hype in general or if I refrain from or dislike hyping products from manufacturers that haven't proven anything yet. 
 If Sennheiser announces their new Electrostat or new dynamic then I get all the hype. If Beyer announces the T2 or Stax something else I understand it as well. All of them proved themselves over decades both in popularity and technicalities. I have nothing against any newcomers. 0.
  
 I welcome any other engineer that enters the market with new, maybe bold, innovative products, because we as consumers profit from more and better choice in all price regions. Years ago we had the big three from AKG, Sennheiser and Beyer. Look where we are today but also look how much a of a trap all this hype can be with prices spiraling towards insanity and people falling for flavors of the month, for overhyped products with their special looks (ED10) for definitely overpriced gear. Sure we don't need to have or buy anything, of course nobody forces us to but it's also easily said that it's everybody's own fault. No, we need responsibility as well and one special thing: reason. 
  
 The kind of forums where any hint of reason is disdained is like an autistic circle where everybody just claps and hugs each other. It's good that head-fi is a different place where stuff like the ED10 deservedly gets smashed and criticized (though unfortunately over the top by now and too "bandwagonish" seeing how they improved with their Signature).


----------



## benbenkr

Just need to reconfirm something, can the FiiO E17 receive DH from a TB DSS/Astro Mixamp through aux in?
 Basically PS3/360 > DSS/Mixamp > E17 with DH?


----------



## conquerator2

benbenkr said:


> Just need to reconfirm something, can the FiiO E17 receive DH from a TB DSS/Astro Mixamp through aux in?
> Basically PS3/360 > DSS/Mixamp > E17 with DH?


 
  
 If you use it as an amplifier only, then yes.
 If you wanna use it as a DAC/amp, then no.
  
 Hope that answers your question :]


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Just need to reconfirm something, can the FiiO E17 receive DH from a TB DSS/Astro Mixamp through aux in?
> Basically PS3/360 > DSS/Mixamp > E17 with DH?


 
  
 Dolby Headphone is just a stereo analog signal, so yes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not that I think the E07k is powerful enough to add a noticeable amount of decibels to the Mixamp's signal if you're trying to add a good amount of volume. If so, you're better off with the E12 or a desktop amp.


----------



## benbenkr

conquerator2 said:


> If you use it as an amplifier only, then yes.
> If you wanna use it as a DAC/amp, then no.
> 
> Hope that answers your question :]


 
  


chicolom said:


> Dolby Headphone is just a stereo analog signal, so yes.


 
  
 Thanks conquerator and chico. I remember MLE saying that he's using a Xonar U3 > Optical out > Fiio E17 to get DH. That's on a PC/laptop use though, but just wanted to confirm if it works the same on a console but with the use of just a stereo analog.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Not that I think the E07k is powerful enough to add a noticeable amount of decibels to the Mixamp's signal if you're trying to add a good amount of volume. If so, you're better off with the E12 or a desktop amp.


 
  
 Oh it's because I found a pretty new E17 for sale at my place for $70 and since I still have an E09k, I thought... why not?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I misread, I thought you said E07k. Just woke up. 

In this case, wouldn't it still be better to use the E09k as an amp to help juice the Mixamp?


----------



## benbenkr

Pretty much what I've been doing so far actaully. Mixamp > E09k, not the issue about power. Just thinking if I could use the DAC on the E17 in conjunction with DH but through the aux in/stereo analog way.
  
 I'm also in a little dilemma currently to get an E17 or not for my laptop as well where previously I was looking to get an Audioengine D1 for it — until I saw the E17 for sale at $70. So this is like a double usage scenario, you know? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Good morning though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry, there's no way to use a dac with the Mixamp. At least not my conventional means. It's not worth buying an ADC (analog to digital converter), since the Mixamp's headphone jack would make a horrible source to convert digital just so you can use the E17's dac.

All i could recommend is attaching the Mixamp to the E09k's analog input, docking the E17 to the E09k, and using the USB on the E09k for your laptop. That allows you to use the E17 as the dac for the PC, and the E09k as an amp for both. You could also attach an optical cable to the E17 if you wanna use it as an SPDIF dac (you could for instance feed an optical signal from your computer's soundcard....if it has spdif out capablities, or get something like the Xonar U3 for it).

I should consider reacquiring an E09k, since I already own the E17, though I don't see me needing one in the near future.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> For me the effect of the iCan's 3D soundstage switch is more significant, noticeable, and valuable than the effect of just jumping from one $250 solid state amp to another one.



I don't know what the iCan's soundstage switch sounds like (I'd guess it'd make a "click" sound? Then made audio more soundstagey... By adding crossfeed, echo, or modifying certain frequencies?), *but* my tube amp is like an always-on soundstage switch.

It has enough power and resolution to help my AKGs sound their best (extension and everything), and I think it colors the midrange somehow which results in greater soundstage and a more fluid presentation.


----------



## Evshrug

Also, this new (to me) Recon3D USB isn't as good as my old one, I get weird distortion artifacts 2-3 times a night while playing my games. And generally, it sounds like a slightly different unit... Hard to actually quantify that and of course it's just based off memory, and the THX processing is the same, there just seem to be a few more quirks about it. Still using it though, nice to get it at a low price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like Mixamps. They all sound worse than my original Mixamp. Bad volume distortions when adjusting the volume, and they clip to hell when I max out the volume, which was never a problem before. I have to leave it at like 70% now. I kind of wish I never got rid of my 5.8. The first gen Mixamp was also something I should've kept.


----------



## Evshrug

^ even though I like thx processing more, my DSS has been less quirky. I think Nameless got unlucky. Plus, I just re-confirmed that the DSS hiss doesn't scale with volume... If I use my M100 plugged in directly, there's some soft white-noise (brown-noise? I think of white-noise as grainier) at listening volume, easy enough to ignore while playing, but if I turn up the DSS volume to max and plug in my E12, adjust to listening volume, the background is black.

It's nice having both, but I'm probably going to send my DSS to my CoD buddy (he raves about his X21, I tell him to move the mic further from his mouth  )


----------



## NamelessPFG

I wouldn't be surprised if I got unlucky with that unit.
  
 When I received it, I heard a loud rattling whenever I shook it, albeit one that didn't seem to impede its function.
  
 I took it apart and found one of those usual metal weight slabs screwed down to the casing...or it would be if the screw shaft didn't snap off, which happens all the time with these things. I removed it and put it back together after making sure the PCB was undamaged by the loose weight, which it thankfully wasn't. (If you noticed it being lighter than your old unit, now you know why.)
  
 It sucks to hear that I may have actually had a Recon3D USB with degraded audio quality, but as far as I knew, it was in working order.


----------



## Evshrug

I think it's fair to say it's sound is close enough to be impossible to definitively detect a difference unless compared side-by-side (which I can't), except sometimes it emits a squealtch sound, and it continually has problems being recognized by my computer when it first starts up. Minor quirks... Those are the only obvious things. So far, it also sounds like you and Mad described, which is funny because I didn't feel the same when I had my old unit, but that's just subjective and I can't take a definitive stance on it.

You remember when I first plugged it in to my computer, and I said "Wow, I think this one must be louder!" because I had to turn windows system volume down to 20%? Haven't been able to replicate that, and the last time I had my Same headphone plugged straight in + same game, I had to have the volume at like 60%.

Still glad to have it, just noting unit variances. You absolutely disclosed the rattling before I bought it and did a better job fixing it than I probably would have, I'm not reviewing *you* at all, unless I'm reviewing your luck


----------



## kman1211

Look at what just showed up today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Initial impressions are very good so far, these are not bass lean at all, they have more bass than the MA900 or K240 and the treble is smooth and relaxed.


----------



## Mackem

widdyjudas said:


> I'm also using glasses, and that is the reason why I'm very picky for full size cans.
> X1 clamp is not that hard, just right. It doesn't press my glasses hand and no discomfort at all for me. DT990 pro also comfortable for glasses user like us.
> Unlike the M50, even with the stretch mod, its still very painful because its pressing my glasses rather hard.


 
 A lot of the most comfortable headphones are open, which is unfortunate for me as I need closed ones.


----------



## widdyjudas

mackem said:


> A lot of the most comfortable headphones are open, which is unfortunate for me as I need closed ones.


 
 Too bad you need closed, I thought if you don't like with the x1, you will be satisfied with the MA900.
 The V-moda m100 is fairly comfy for me and its closed, Just wished it got bigger cup. the clamp is good and didn't press my glasses hard. Note that my glasses is those hipster glasses, so the hand is thick.
 The full size momentum is not comfy, rather clampy. However, I would like to try the on ear momentum with velour pad.
 If you don't have any luck with closed cans, than IEM is your only choice...
 Btw, any words for mixamp or DSS compability with next gen console?


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> Look at what just showed up today.  Initial impressions are very good so far, these are not bass lean at all, they have more bass than the MA900 or K240 and the treble is smooth and relaxed.



Awesome! More impressions would be awesomer! How's the soundstage, particularly using surround stuff?





widdyjudas said:


> Too bad you need closed, I thought if you don't like with the x1, you will be satisfied with the MA900.
> The V-moda m100 is fairly comfy for me and its closed, Just wished it got bigger cup. the clamp is good and didn't press my glasses hard. Note that my glasses is those hipster glasses, so the hand is thick.
> If you don't have any luck with closed cans, than IEM is your only choice...
> Btw, any words for mixamp or DSS compability with next gen console?



2x on the V-MODA M-100 having surprisingly nice imaging. Just tested it this morning for someone on the M-100 thread, it really does acquit itself well. Bass extends well, but it may take the focus away from footsteps, though those steps are still there if you listen for them since treble has decent extension.

Clamp indeed isn't too bad stock, but the headband is metal and can easily be relaxed as much as you desire. Wearing for longer than an hour takes some determination though, my ears don't fit entirely inside and they start to ache, though in a practical sense you ought to be taking breaks anyway.

I haven't tried the XL pads yet, apparently the extra distance affects the bass BUT is a nice boon for comfort. I haven't seen a consensus for HOW the bass changes, but I suspect it's not so different from the pad mod that's been quite popular for the past 9 months or so.

I got mine with shields customized with my gaming clan logo, in orange to match my cable; with the matte black and orange cable/shields it looks like I am obsessed with color-coordination next to the K712 pros.
-----

I dunno about the next-gen consoles yet, nor who does have the whole picture, except that I'm 99% certain there will be an HDMI out (thus receivers with surround processing or optical-outs should help headphone users) and there will probably be an optical-out on the console (or accessory) too, however it has also been confirmed that Xbox One [Three] will have a new proprietary connection for chat. So, you probably CAN use existing devices for game surround, but not chat audio. I bet new products will emerge to fill this role.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Awesome! More impressions would be awesomer! How's the soundstage, particularly using surround stuff?


 
 Well I haven't tried it with gaming or virtual surround and it's still in the process of burning in. From what I can tell from just heavy music listening it has more depth and accuracy to it's imaging and soundstage than the MA900, the MA900 is wider, bigger and airier sounding but because of that sounds a little thin compared to the K612. It's a round and natural sounding soundstage, while the MA900 seems more ovalish. It's a thick and warm sounding headphone but does have some air to it's sound due to it's large soundstage. It has a noticeable improvement in the subbass over the MA900 and K240s I own. It doesn't have any center imaging issues like the K701/K702/Q701 does.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I don't know what the iCan's soundstage switch sounds like (I'd guess it'd make a "click" sound? Then made audio more soundstagey... By adding crossfeed, echo, or modifying certain frequencies?), *but* my tube amp is like an always-on soundstage switch.


 
  
  
 It's hard to describe how the iCans 3D effect works.  It doesn't add any reverb or echo, it doesn't process the signal digitally, and it doesn't affect the resolution.  It's also not a crossfeed (although the "mode 1" setting behaves similar to a standard crossfeed.  "Mode 3" is the fancy one though which I'm talking about).  It's all analog circuitry according to iFi.  It does slightly increase the highs for some reason, but it's no big deal and it's sometimes nice as it increases the airiness.
  
 It's not just simply adding "more soundstage".  If I just want more-of-the-same soundstage, the M-stage does that.  The 3D effect is something different though, and it actually moves the sounds around inside the soundstage in a way that gives them more space and separation around each other.  For example, if you've got three singers/instruments sounding like they're all coming from in front of you and close together, it will split them up so that two are farther to the side and they all have more space around them.  It does it in a natural sounding way though.   It also usually wrap some of the sounds around your head some. 
  
 After listening to it for a while and then turning it OFF you will notice the sound will become bit flat (like sounds are all coming from the same plane of depth) and the stereo width will become more narrow and "inside your head".
  
  
 The overall effect is much more subtle then your probably thinking.  In fact on some recordings it's so subtle it doesn't make too much difference whether it's ON or OFF.  On other recordings the effect is quite impressive though.  So it depends a lot on the recording.  More modern compressed pop stuff usually won't benefit as much from it, but recordings with ambience such as a live jazz or classical performance usually works well with it.
  
 So it's something you need to spend some time with to appreciate what it's doing.  It probably won't "wow" you on a quick listen but after you've used it for a while then switch it off it's easier to hear and appreciate what it's doing. 
  
  
 I'll record a demo of it taking a signal from the iCan's HP out jack so you guys can hear the effect.


----------



## widdyjudas

evshrug said:


> Awesome! More impressions would be awesomer! How's the soundstage, particularly using surround stuff?
> 
> 
> 2x on the V-MODA M-100 having surprisingly nice imaging. Just tested it this morning for someone on the M-100 thread, it really does acquit itself well. Bass extends well, but it may take the focus away from footsteps, though those steps are still there if you listen for them since treble has decent extension.
> ...




I want to make sure that the dh devices can support next gen. I'm pretty sure ps4 will have optical out, just like ps2 and 3. Dont know for the xbn, but i had enough for xbox... time to be a sony loyalist again. 
I dont really care about chat. I rarely chat on mp games, just want to experience surround from console gaming.
Btw, why no impression of the k712pro yet, and for gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> I'll record a demo of it taking a signal from the iCan's HP out jack so you guys can hear the effect.


 
  
 That'd be amazing! I've been quite curious about this amp since you picked it up.


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> I don't really care about chat. I rarely chat on mp games, just want to experience surround from console gaming.
> 
> Btw, why no impression of the k712pro yet, and for gaming.




1. You don't care about chat? Optical is an audio equipment STANDARD, so as long as the console has that you'll be golden. You could even hook up a DSS to an original Xbox if you get the component cable (at least, mine has an optical out).

2. Well... What happens? Every time I go to write a review or analyze the sound for notes, I end up getting carried away and forgetting all about reviewing. Short version is they're an undeniably awesome choice for gaming. I haven't heard the Annie's but I bet they're on the same level as all-rounders of utmost quality. I'm not yet positive how much has changed from the Q701, and which I would consider the better value... The Q701 is an amazing value, about $100 cheaper than the two other traditional big flagships (Beyer and Sennheiser), the K712 is priced more in-line with the other brands and over the Q701 offers increased comfort, convenience (the coiled cable is a nice alternative for me instead of the super long 10 m cable that was the Q's spare), increased bass, and a few other things I want to make sure aren't just impressions before I hype them.

The K712 are definitely hype-worthy, and overall an evolutionary improvement, but the Q701 (with a few mods) may be the better valuerice.


----------



## chicolom

You can't go wrong with the K712s for gaming.


----------



## Orion1991

*This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround (I personally use Dolby Headphone). NOT stereo*​  
So all these headphones use Dolby technology ?​


----------



## widdyjudas

Nop, i rarely chatted when play mp games. Can't concentrate enough if i play while chatting. Except for mp games like starcraft2, chat feature is very important. 
Dont know what mp player i will play in console, maybe destiny on ps4. 
My main reason for dh device is just to feel the surround effect using cans. I assumed that the current mixamp will be compatible with ps4 then?
How about 712 for music use? Maybe compared to x1. Or i just keep the x1 as my music need


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

orion1991 said:


> *This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround (I personally use Dolby Headphone). NOT stereo*​
> So all these headphones use Dolby technology ?​




Have you even read the guide?

The virtual surround devices on that very first post (*they're even in their own list*). That's what gives me virtual surround, obviously.

I'm convinced people don't actually read the guide before asking questions easily answered if they just looked through it.

Sorry if I sound cranky. I'm on 1 hour of sleep, AT WORK and it's 5am, and I have a stupid headache.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Local hifi shop messaged me about K812. 3 Weeks delivery. 1099€. First time I see a 1:1 conversion actually.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Local hifi shop messaged me about K812. 3 Weeks delivery. 1099€. First time I see a 1:1 conversion actually.


 
  
  
 Are you getting them?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It needs to be at least on par with the HD 800 in details and imaging/separation. Soundstage doesn't need to have the same size but needs to be at least on TH-900, Fostex level. I like how it's easier to drive as I plan to stay away from any kind of extra amping in the future. The amp of the D2 is outstanding, just not strong enough for a HE-6 or similar so more sensitive headphones are always positive.
  
 At the moment I'll be shrinking everything to my DAC and TH-900. I like the Fostex most, it completes my needs the best. Excellent for gaming (soundstage, speed, epic subbass), lovely for music, suitable for every genre and just singing itself. Still wish it was cheaper for everyone else.
  
 Next year I'll check again between K812 and the "HD850" and maybe get one of them.


----------



## Orion1991

mad lust envy said:


> Have you even read the guide?
> 
> The virtual surround devices on that very first post (*they're even in their own list*). That's what gives me virtual surround, obviously.
> 
> ...


 
 I am sorry I am kinda new to the whole headphone thing, I just found out you need an amp to make the headphone produce 5.1 sound, because there are headsets like *Plantronics GameCom 780* or *Logitech G35* that have Dolby® Headset Technology built in them, so again apologies.
  
 After doing some research I found out that headsets are kinda crappy when compared to headphones+mic combo, for both music and gaming everyone says headphones are Superior, so I ended up here for some advice, but sadly you're guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround ​only, not for stereo gaming I am afraid.​  
​So my question is getting a quality headphone like ​*sennheiser hd 558* or getting a headset that uses Dolby Technology like the ones I mentioned above, I will be using the headphone/headset for Music, gaming and watching movies, and my budget is around 100$ only I am afraid. 
  
 Thank you for this amazing guide btw


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, my guide review is based on Dolby for gaming purposes, but when I talk about aspects of certain headphones like bass, mids, etc, that's all done in stereo first.

As long as you get something like the Mixamp or a soundcard with Dolby Headphone or something similar, its basically doing the same thing as the headsets with Dolby built in. 

If you're looking at those Sennheiser headphones, I recommend the Sony MA900 instead.


----------



## ethan7000

fegefeuer said:


> It needs to be at least on par with the HD 800 in details and imaging/separation. Soundstage doesn't need to have the same size but needs to be at least on TH-900, Fostex level. I like how it's easier to drive as I plan to stay away from any kind of extra amping in the future. The amp of the D2 is outstanding, just not strong enough for a HE-6 or similar so more sensitive headphones are always positive.
> 
> At the moment I'll be shrinking everything to my DAC and TH-900. I like the Fostex most, it completes my needs the best. Excellent for gaming (soundstage, speed, epic subbass), lovely for music, suitable for every genre and just singing itself. Still wish it was cheaper for everyone else.
> 
> Next year I'll check again between K812 and the "HD850" and maybe get one of them.


 
 Is there an "850" planned?


----------



## Change is Good

I concur with what Chico says about the ican's 3D switch when on high. It helps with instrument separation by placing some of them outside of the headphones, so to say. On the box there is a graphic design of the 3D effect that basically nails its description. It shows the main singer inside the phones while the back up musicians are placed outside the phones.

And when you use the high bass switch with it... OMG! The extra space and air from the 3D effect allows it to be engaging without bleeding into the other frequencies.

These benefits are what will make it hard for me to decide which amp to keep once the AG2 arrives on Saturday (depending if it improves the MDs with its extra juice). I love them both the same; M-Stage for its natural open sound and the iCAN for its versatility.


----------



## Ordokon

So I finally decided to Sony MDR MA900 and they are awesome! Never heard so much space, I am really happy, thank you guys for your help .
 And I have decided to buy a headphone amp cause still with these headphones I need to turn up volume higher than before. And in addition I want to buy some AKGs in the future. I read on MLE guide about Fiio E09k and Fiio E12 and want to know, which of these will be working better with MA900 and with potential AKG in the future. Or if you think that there will be better choice, tell me about it please.
 Thank you for any advices.


----------



## AvroArrow

widdyjudas said:


> I want to make sure that the dh devices can support next gen. I'm pretty sure ps4 will have optical out, just like ps2 and 3. Dont know for the xbn, but i had enough for xbox... time to be a sony loyalist again.
> I dont really care about chat. I rarely chat on mp games, just want to experience surround from console gaming.


 
  
 As mentioned before, as long as the new consoles have a SPDIF port, it will work with the current DH devices for audio output (speaker/headphone) ONLY, but no CHAT capability.  I remember reading that Microsoft has not shared specs of the new chat protocol with 3rd parties like Turtle Beach, Razer, etc, so upon release, there will be no 3rd party headsets because there won't be chat support.  It may not matter to you, but it matters to millions of Call of Duty and Battlefield players around the world, so you won't be seeing a 3rd party DH device for the XBone upon release.  I'm not sure about the PS4 except that even their own 1st party PS3 Bluetooth headset won't work with the PS4 upon release.  I believe the CEO said that it will eventually work with the PS4 after a software update that will be released sometime after console is out, so I wouldn't expect to see a full DH+chat 3rd party device for the PS4 either upon console release.
  


evshrug said:


> 2. Well... What happens? Every time I go to write a review or analyze the sound for notes, I end up getting carried away and forgetting all about reviewing. Short version is they're an undeniably awesome choice for gaming. I haven't heard the Annie's but I bet they're on the same level as all-rounders of utmost quality. I'm not yet positive how much has changed from the Q701, and which I would consider the better value... The Q701 is an amazing value, about $100 cheaper than the two other traditional big flagships (Beyer and Sennheiser), the K712 is priced more in-line with the other brands and over the Q701 offers increased comfort, convenience (the coiled cable is a nice alternative for me instead of the super long 10 m cable that was the Q's spare), increased bass, and a few other things I want to make sure aren't just impressions before I hype them.
> 
> The K712 are definitely hype-worthy, and overall an evolutionary improvement, but the Q701 (with a few mods) may be the better valuerice.


 
  
 I disagree that the Q701 is a better value than the K702.65 or K712pro if you can get the latter on sale.  After having tried the Q701 in person, I value comfort above sound.  The Q701 were super uncomfortable for me because I have a big head and wear glasses.  The bumps on the headband plus the hard foam earpads on the Q701 were unacceptable to me.  I have read that you can replace the headband with a flat headband from the K601 and replace the earpads with the memory foam earpads from the Annies/K712, but that ends up costing more than just buying the Annie/K712pro in the first place.  Q701 ($250) + headband ($60+shipping) + Annie earpads ($75+shipping) = $385+shipping USD.  If you're in the US then the Q701 are maybe a bit cheaper at $220 on amazon, but that's the best I can find in Canada.  The Annies cost me $350+shipping on sale a couple months ago.  The K712 were $50 more than the Annies when I bought mine.  I recently saw the K712 go on sale for $375+shipping.  I think I should have waited and got the K712 because I just spent $40 to get the EK500 coiled cable for my Annies because the stock straight cable was too long and felt really cheap for something that retails for $499 MSRP.  The K712pro includes both the straight and coiled cables unlike the Annies.  But I do prefer the black/blue color scheme of the Annies versus the black/orange of the K712pro.  I also just got a pair of AKG K550 because I needed a pair of closed headphones for music listening at the office and I love my Annies even more now.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> I concur with what Chico says about the ican's 3D switch when on high. It helps with instrument separation by placing some of them outside of the headphones, so to say.
> 
> On the box there is a graphic design of the 3D effect that basically nails its description. It shows the main singer inside the phones while the back up musicians are placed outside the phones.


 
  
 Here's the visual aid:
  

  


change is good said:


> And when you use the high bass switch with it... OMG! The extra space and air from the 3D effect allows it to be engaging without bleeding into the other frequencies.


 
  
  
 Yes. 
  
 One great thing about the the 3D effect is it gives the bass more space and room to operate.  It's almost like it improves the technicalities of the bass and makes it more open and less muddy.
  
 Using the bass boost in conjunction with the 3D is quite nice as once you give the bass some extra room it responds better to bass boost.  Using them both together also works well because the bass boost slightly counterbalances the bit of air added up top from the 3D setting with just a bit of warmth down low.


----------



## Orion1991

mad lust envy said:


> Well, my guide review is based on Dolby for gaming purposes, but when I talk about aspects of certain headphones like bass, mids, etc, that's all done in stereo first.
> 
> As long as you get something like the Mixamp or a soundcard with Dolby Headphone or something similar, its basically doing the same thing as the headsets with Dolby built in.
> 
> If you're looking at those Sennheiser headphones, I recommend the Sony MA900 instead.


 
 The MA900 looks amazing but I am afraid they are over my budget, that's why I am looking into Sennheiser headphones I heard good things.
  
 But correct me if I am wrong, isn't the headphone quality overall better than the headsets regardless of the dolby technology.
  
 I also have an Asus Xonar DS on the way, it has DTS Connect technology, dunno if thats gonna work with headphones.


----------



## chicolom

orion1991 said:


> But correct me if I am wrong, isn't the headphone quality overall better than the headsets regardless of the dolby technology.


 
  
 The only difference between headphones and headsets is that the latter has a microphone.  They're both dual driver stereo headphones essentially.  There are _multi-driver _"true surround" headsets, but multi-driver units have proven to sound inferior to regular dual driver headphoens in terms of sound quality. 
  
 Dolby headphone is a separate entity outside the physical headphone/headset itself.  It's simply a virtual surround processing DSP that plays with the signal before it ever gets to either the headphone/headset. 
  
  
 In general, YES - headphones (especially "audiophile" or "hi-fi" headphones) will have better sound quality than your typical gaming headsets.  This is due to a number of reasons, such as: a design more focused on maximizing sound quality instead of maximizing stylish "gaming" looks, an Open Vs. Closed design (most gaming headsets are closed), and simply having _more__ experience_ at designing headphones than gaming headset companies.


----------



## Orion1991

chicolom said:


> The only difference between headphones and headsets is that the latter has a microphone.  They're both dual driver stereo headphones essentially.  There are _multi-driver _"true surround" headsets, but multi-driver units have proven to sound inferior to regular dual driver headphoens in terms of sound quality.
> 
> Dolby headphone is a separate entity outside the physical headphone/headset itself.  It's simply a virtual surround processing DSP that plays with the signal before it ever gets to either the headphone/headset.
> 
> ...


 
 First I thank you for the explanation  I still have a couple of questions left if you'd like to help me or anyone else ofc.
  
 1)In general open headphones are better for gaming and music and I do believe they are more comfy, but how bad is the sound leakage exactly ? my brother in another room (around 3-5 meters away) with both doors closed can hear my iphone ear pods if I blast the volume, I really dont want that to happen with my new headphones so still confused about that closed/open matter.
  
 2)What do you Advice here, Headset or headphones, I mainly use it for Gaming-Music-movies.


----------



## Evshrug

ordokon said:


> ... And in addition I want to buy some AKGs in the future. I read on MLE guide about Fiio E09k and Fiio E12 and want to know, which of these will be working better with MA900 and with potential AKG in the future. Or if you think that there will be better choice, tell me about it please.
> Thank you for any advices.




Technically, the E12 has lower output impedance (doesn't matter with the MA900, not really with the open AKG's either) and lower Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) than the E09k, and the E12 has that subtle bass-boost switch, but really your choice ought to be based on "do I want a desktop amp or a battery-powered portable?"
-----

Orion,
In short, devices like the Mixamp translate a 5.1 surround signal to a stereo headphone mix, with a headphone jack for ANY headphone to plug into. 
The Xonar soundcard on the way to you can also process surround from your PC games into a Dolby headphone mix.

The Logitech headsets you mentioned earlier have poor audio quality for the price, and yes you often can have your budget benefit you more by buying a good stereo headphone and separately a cheap lapel mic (the kind that clip onto a shirt collar). Pretty much any headphone mentioned in Mad's guide would be a good choice; pick one that fits your budget.
-----


Avro Arrow,
I said "may" be a better value. The bumps don't bother everybody, and replacing the headband with AKG's flat one is hardly the only option. The pads themselves aren't much different for comfort, just some people might prefer the looser bass, so for someone on a budget new pads are optional. Also, sales come and go, you can't state the lowest sale price you've seen as the average street price, the Annie's are likely to go up.

So there are reasons to spring for the K712 (or Annie's), but for many people, being able to easily snag a pair of Q701 for $220-$250 + $5 seatbelt wrap (or just cutting off the bumps with a razor) is an entirely viable option that will give them great value.

When I actually write a K712 review, I'll be sure to mention what you gain over the Q701, and leave it up to the reader to decide if they value the differences enough to pay the price difference.


----------



## chicolom

orion1991 said:


> First I thank you for the explanation  I still have a couple of questions left if you'd like to help me or anyone else ofc.
> 
> 1)In general open headphones are better for gaming and music and I do believe they are more comfy, but how bad is the sound leakage exactly ? my brother in another room (around 3-5 meters away) with both doors closed can hear my iphone ear pods if I blast the volume, I really don't want that to happen with my new headphones so still confused about that closed/open matter.
> 
> 2)What do you Advice here, Headset or headphones, I mainly use it for Gaming-Music-movies.


 
  
  
 1)  Hey may or may not be able to hear it.  It's hard to say as I don't know how loud you listen, but if he can already hear your ibuds an full sized headphone will probably be louder.  You can try calling a best buy and see if they have a pair of HD558sor 598s in stock (both leak a lot) and see for yourself. 
  
 2)  I would go with _headphones_.  Better sound quality and comfort.  Headsets are mainly for the convenience of having a boom mic already attached.  You can still attach a mic to regular headphones though.


----------



## Orion1991

Again thanks this is a bit confusing for me, I'll stick to a closed headphone in that case, here is some headphones I looked up, if anyone has any other recommendations or any comments to help me decide that would be great. using them for gaming/music/movies and being comfy for long hours is a must for me, also my budget is around 100$, some options :
  
 -Sennhiser HD449  or *HD 439*
 -Creative Aurvana Live!
 -Philips SHL5905BK CitiScape Uptown


----------



## pervysage

avroarrow said:


> As mentioned before, as long as the new consoles have a SPDIF port, it will work with the current DH devices for audio output (speaker/headphone) ONLY, but no CHAT capability.  I remember reading that Microsoft has not shared specs of the new chat protocol with 3rd parties like Turtle Beach, Razer, etc, so upon release, there will be no 3rd party headsets because there won't be chat support.  It may not matter to you, but it matters to millions of Call of Duty and Battlefield players around the world, so you won't be seeing a 3rd party DH device for the XBone upon release.  I'm not sure about the PS4 except that even their own 1st party PS3 Bluetooth headset won't work with the PS4 upon release.  I believe the CEO said that it will eventually work with the PS4 after a software update that will be released sometime after console is out, so I wouldn't expect to see a full DH+chat 3rd party device for the PS4 either upon console release.


 
  
 Xbox has a deal with Turtle Beach to release headsets early 2014.
  
 Microsoft has also confirmed they will be releasing adapters so that you can use your regular 2.5mm mic with their new proprietary connector. However, this adapter won't be out until early 2014 as well.
  
 So you will probably have to run your headphones through SPDIF and have the included Xbox chat headset around your neck or something for voice chat until they release the adapter. Or you can use the included Kinect for voice chat as well... although most people don't really like that option as Kinect mics suck.


----------



## NamelessPFG

pervysage said:


> Microsoft has also confirmed they will be releasing adapters so that you can use your regular 2.5mm mic with their new proprietary connector. However, this adapter won't be out until early 2014 as well.


 
  
 Adapters are nice, but proprietary connectors of any kind SUCK. Why did Microsoft bother?
  
 Then again, they're the ones who favored a proprietary wireless protocol over Bluetooth, along with licensing chips inside all X360 controllers, proprietary hard drive enclosures on the old-model X360s, etc...


----------



## Change is Good

namelesspfg said:


> Adapters are nice, but proprietary connectors of any kind SUCK. Why did Microsoft bother?
> 
> Then again, they're the ones who favored a proprietary wireless protocol over Bluetooth, along with licensing chips inside all X360 controllers, proprietary hard drive enclosures on the old-model X360s, etc...


 
  
 They'll do anything to make sure all the money spent for Xbox accessories goes to them...


----------



## chicolom

orion1991 said:


> Again thanks this is a bit confusing for me, I'll stick to a closed headphone in that case, here is some headphones I looked up, if anyone has any other recommendations or any comments to help me decide that would be great. using them for gaming/music/movies and being comfy for long hours is a must for me, also my budget is around 100$, some options :
> 
> -Sennhiser HD449  or *HD 439*
> -Creative Aurvana Live!
> -Philips SHL5905BK CitiScape Uptown


 
  
  
 Closed and under $100 your options are fairly limited.  The only ones I've tried off that list are the CALs, which are solid.
  
 If it were me I would still go for a ~$150 open headphone like the HD558 or a used MA900.
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-MA900-Stereo-Headphones-Full-Open-Type-/231079740402?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item35cd6d03f2


----------



## davisman

I cant believe the lack of headphone support. That makes no sense at all. I wish some of my friends would convert to pc gamers.


----------



## SaLX

@Chicolom:
  
 Your iCANS are intriguing... what are they like for gaming however - do they go way overboard in the soundstage, or mess up positional cues using DH etc? Also.. can't seem find the headphone output impedance rating on them!
  
 Thanks


----------



## Sam21

Hi Mad lust envy and all
  
 How would you rate ATH-A700x competitive-wise ? AD700 gets a 10, I suppose A700 gets a 9.5 ? correct me if i am wrong....


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> @Chicolom:
> 
> Your iCANS are intriguing... what are they like for gaming however - do they go way overboard in the soundstage, or mess up positional cues using DH etc? Also.. can't seem find the headphone output impedance rating on them!
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The iCans 3D settings don't really do much for gaming. 
  
 While it is a small improvement over plain stereo, it's not the same thing as actual virtual surround coming from a 5.1 source.  It can improve sound separation and change the soundstage characteristics, but it doesn't create accurate positioning from a 2 channel source or anything. 
  
 As for stacking it _on top_ of Dolby Headphone, it sounds interesting at times and can make things sound even more out-of-head, but it also clashes with it a bit.  It can sometimes screw with the positional accuracy, so I would just leave it off for that.  When I get around to recording demos of the iCan I can try and include a Dolby Headphone vs Dolby Headphone + iCan 3D effect demo.
  
  
 If your talking about the iCan's headphone jacks output impedance, it's <0.5 Ω ohms - so extremely low (a good thing).


----------



## SaLX

TY for reply Chico - I wonder if any future Tech / DACs and Amps could do the same for gaming soundstaging in the future? Who knows! Fascinating design ethos with the iCAN - looks very engaging.


----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> Hi Mad lust envy and all
> 
> How would you rate ATH-A700x competitive-wise ? AD700 gets a 10, I suppose A700 gets a 9.5 ? correct me if i am wrong....




Well, I tested the A700 before I got into virtual surround gaming, but I would say it isn't in the same class of detail as the AD700 or ability to create an "outside the head" soundstage that is near critical to get good virtual surround with gaming. The A700 is nicer than the average street headphone, but it's nothing special. Like around a 6.5 or 7 IMO.

The AD700 is a 10 competitively because, although (and partially because) it has over-controlled weak bass, it does have special presentation of soundstage and imaging, and a fair treble "sparkle" coloration that some people really like in some genres. The sound signature and detail make it strip down the sound to important tactical cues and positional direction.


----------



## designbykai

Astro mixamp question...
 Am I better off getting a previous year's Mixamp pro due to lower noise?
 Something like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Free-shipping-NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/111067806226?pt=AU_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item19dc283a12&_uhb=1 "new" but without cables $100 inc post
  
 Or just get the 2013 version? For an extra $35 or more with post http://www.gamestate.co/au/astro-mixamp-usb
  
 I don't particularly care about the new EQ mode features etc ( read MLE's rundown on page1). Better SQ is more important. And I like that older models have proper TOSlink input so no need for adapter. And RCA etc.
  
 Also is it possible to input a 3.5mm cable from an mp3 player (thinking my Fiio X3) or laptop and mix music in with game/headphone audio too? Or is that only possible with Ear Force DSS? (but then no mic possible unless using TB headset...)
  
 Sorry if this has been covered earlier like 100pages ago but its a long thread


----------



## Evshrug

Basically, the closer you get to a 2011 Mixamp, the better from that line FWIR. 

I'm curious how the surround processor bundled with turtle beach's newer five seven headset (or whatever it's called) performs. The DSS has less hiss, which is actually independent of volume so if you turn it up really loud and plug into another amp with low THD (like FiiO's E12) and set THAT volume to listening levels, you don't hear hiss at all. And, Creative's Recon3D USB processor has even less hiss (though it uses THX processing instead of the Dolby of the other two, which is better processing is down to personal preference). I think there was also something available by Monoprice, but I know next to nothing about it (is BurritoBoy here?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

designbykai said:


> Astro mixamp question...
> Am I better off getting a previous year's Mixamp pro due to lower noise?
> Something like http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Free-shipping-NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/111067806226?pt=AU_Video_Game_Accessories&hash=item19dc283a12&_uhb=1 "new" but without cables $100 inc post
> 
> ...




That's a first gen mixamp linked. That one has the lowest noise of all, but it doesn't do USB chat support for PS3/PC.

And yes, all the Mixamps have mp3 cable support, so you can use your own music.


----------



## pervysage

mad lust envy said:


> That's a first gen mixamp linked. That one has the lowest noise of all, but it doesn't do USB chat support for PS3/PC.
> 
> And yes, all the Mixamps have mp3 cable support, so you can use your own music.


 
  
 I don't hear any noise until around 12 o'clock on the E9K. Since my maximum is around 10 o'clock (gets too loud after that point) I don't hear any noise for my usage but I suppose YMMV. I have the Mixamp volume maxed out.


----------



## designbykai

mad lust envy said:


> That's a first gen mixamp linked. That one has the lowest noise of all, but it doesn't do USB chat support for PS3/PC.
> 
> And yes, all the Mixamps have mp3 cable support, so you can use your own music.


 
 Cool.
 But it has a 3.5mm PC Mic input jack, so it can mix that in and send to PS3 right? Or are you saying it can't because it can't send the signal over usb? If so that's gimped, the mic input/voicechat mixing is a key reason for getting one..


----------



## chicolom

designbykai said:


> Cool.
> But it has a 3.5mm PC Mic input jack, so it can mix that in and send to PS3 right? Or are you saying it can't because* it can't send the signal over usb*? If so that's gimped, the mic input/voicechat mixing is a key reason for getting one..


 
  
 The first gen Mixamps' USB port is JUST for power.  No data being sent, so no USB to PS3 chat capability.  If you want that you'll need the 2011 version or later.
  
 The MP3 and PC mic jacks are two different things.  The MP3 is basically an analog input and it just goes straight out the other side to the headphones.  The PC mic is an analog output just for the voice signal, so you can route your voice to PC via a 3.5mm cable.


----------



## designbykai

chicolom said:


> The first gen Mixamps' USB port is JUST for power.  No data being sent, so no USB to PS3 chat capability.  If you want that you'll need the 2011 version or later.
> 
> The MP3 and PC mic jacks are two different things.  The MP3 is basically an analog input and it just goes straight out the other side to the headphones.  The PC mic is an analog output just for the voice signal, so you can route your voice to PC via a 3.5mm cable.


 
 Ah K, gotcha. Yeah thought that was the case with mp3 input but didn't think that PC mic would only work with PC.
 Thanks. Guess I need to look for 2011, or just go with latest one and hope the noise isn't much of an issue for me (if using an amp as well maybe it'll help)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

An amp won't help with noise. The noise is embedded in the Mixamp's output. For example, once you reach 85db of volume (just an example), you'll get the same amount of noise regardless if you attach an amp or not. The only things that will truly help is if you're using low sensitivity or high impedance headphone that keeps signal noise under control. The noise will vary by headphone.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Basically, the closer you get to a 2011 Mixamp, the better from that line FWIR.
> 
> I'm curious how the surround processor bundled with turtle beach's newer five seven headset (or whatever it's called) performs. The DSS has less hiss, which is actually independent of volume so if you turn it up really loud and plug into another amp with low THD (like FiiO's E12) and set THAT volume to listening levels, you don't hear hiss at all. And, Creative's Recon3D USB processor has even less hiss (though it uses THX processing instead of the Dolby of the other two, which is better processing is down to personal preference). I think there was also something available by Monoprice, but I know next to nothing about it (is BurritoBoy here?)


 
  
 I use the PX5 DSS [which is definitely newer than the original DSS] and I don't perceive any noise when using but I haven't really used any over-sensitive headphones [Pro 900 and HE-6]
 I will try the 900X with it and report back if there is anything.
 It was of much higher value for me than the PX5 that came with it...
  
 Here -


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's going for around$75 used on Amazon. If I didn't already have a Mixamp, I'd be tempted on testing the PX5 transmitter out.


----------



## chicolom

Asus needs to make a new "Xonar" device aimed at consoles, or at least one that takes Dobly Digital 5.1 over optical, converts to DH, then sends to the line out.  They're last couple devices like the Xonar STU were close, but they only accepted _2 channel PCM_ over the optical input!  LAME


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah, not nearly as bad as I was led to believe.
 I found it surprisingly quite decent  and the DH effect quite convincing. It claims it emulates 5.1 to 7.1 virtual surround sound but I dunno how perceivable it is.
 All I know is that it provides good spatial cues for all directions and separates them nicely.
 While there is less air than with my reference desktop DAC and perhaps a smidge less clarity, I still find it very decent.
 It also has a bypass feature to pass through unprocessed 2.0 stereo but it sounds worse than the processed DH to me anyway.


----------



## Evshrug

Well that's good news


----------



## Fegefeuer

How about messaging FiiO? I did a few months ago and they only said it was sent to the R&D team. They built a special E12 advertising in this forum so why not use that power? Anything FiiO will be better than all the toys we have right now.


----------



## Orion1991

chicolom said:


> Closed and under $100 your options are fairly limited.  The only ones I've tried off that list are the CALs, which are solid.
> 
> If it were me I would still go for a ~$150 open headphone like the HD558 or a used MA900.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MDR-MA900-Stereo-Headphones-Full-Open-Type-/231079740402?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item35cd6d03f2


 
 hmm why would you still recommend me to go for open ? and both are pretty close in price, what do you recommend out of the two, besides music I game and watch movies a lot.


----------



## Naingolann

Wouldn't something like CAL be better for him? Also, I've read great things about the Focal One Spirit...I don't know how it'd perform with DH though.


----------



## Orion1991

ya for their price I bet they have some great things haha


----------



## Change is Good

I've got my eyes on those new SRH1540's from Shure...
  
 Man, those pads... *drools*
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/687229/shure-announcing-new-srh1540-in-tokyo-today-head-fi-tv


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> How about messaging FiiO? I did a few months ago and they only said it was sent to the R&D team. They built a special E12 advertising in this forum so why not use that power? Anything FiiO will be better than all the toys we have right now.


 
  
 I actually started writing them an email a while ago but then stopped.  The message is still saved as a draft though.
  
 We should invite James from FiiO into a discussion about a gaming product and what features we'd want in the design.
  
  


orion1991 said:


> hmm why would you still recommend me to go for open ? and both are pretty close in price, what do you recommend out of the two, besides music I game and watch movies a lot.


 
  
 I just prefer a good open headphone to a closed one for gaming, so if it were me I would try and make that work first.  A good open headphone will be better than the closed headphones at the price point for gaming as they will have better soundstages. The only closed headphones that have soundstages on par with the better open headphones are ones that cost over $600. 
  
 The only con with open headphones is leakage/isolation, but it's usually not a big deal unless there's people trying to sleep in the same room or whatever.
  
 I'd say the MA900 would be a safer choice than the HD598.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE's move now as founder of this thread and contributor.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> I actually started writing them an email a while ago but then stopped.  The message is still saved as a draft though.
> 
> We should invite James from FiiO into a discussion about a gaming product and what features we'd want in the design.


 
  
 +1
  
 I would looove FiiO to manufacture something similar to this but with Dolby Headphone included...
  
http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000048596648&MenuID=105026003


----------



## Fegefeuer

+99999999999
  
 Mixamp is a toy, we need something better with DTS support, very low impedance output (even line out and/or optical) and (almost) zero noise/hiss. 
  
 MUST LUST ENVY!


----------



## chicolom

Considering we're basically choosing between whichever device _sucks the least_ from Astro/Turtle Beach/Tritton/etc., *FiiO *could come in with their audiophile chops and wipe the floor with them.  
 Asus is good in that regard too, but for some reason they're still strictly PC and are staying away from supporting devices like consoles. 
  
 It's not like you need to license anything to Xbox or Sony and brand it up.  I wouldn't care if the device was a hunk of black adonized metal or a plastic box.  You just need to license the DSP tech (and Dolby Digital, DTS) and what not.
  
  
 Quote:


change is good said:


> +1
> 
> I would looove FiiO to manufacture something similar to this but with Dolby Headphone included...
> 
> http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000048596648&MenuID=105026003


 

  
 What the heck is that thing?  "Brings limitless splendidness?"


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> What the heck is that thing?  "Brings limitless splendidness?"


 
  
 No idea...
  
 I say use the main component and turn it into a gaming processor for PCs and consoles...


----------



## chicolom

FiiO needs to hire a native english speaker to take 30 minutes of their time and go through some of the product pages fixing the engrish.


----------



## davisman

How much do you guys think Asus could charge for a xbox/ps3 compatible St or Stx mixamp? I personally would pay a premium, but I dont know that many others would. Especially considering the horrible sound most games come with.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> FiiO needs to hire a native english speaker to take 30 minutes of their time and go through some of the product pages fixing the engrish.


 
  
 I'd offer my services and expertise. Same rate as my current employer.


----------



## ethan7000

Sound recording for Battlefield 4

http://blogs.battlefield.com/2013/10/road-to-bf4-sounds-of-the-battlefield/


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> MUST LUST ENVY!



Lol somebody's calling for a hero!
He's charging up
He...
MUST...
Hrrrgh...
...

....

MAAAAAAAD LUST ENVY!!!!



chicolom said:


> FiiO needs to hire a native english speaker to take 30 minutes of their time and go through some of the product pages fixing the engrish.




I actually PM'ed James a while ago, even sent him (after he said he'd think about it) a rewrite of the top few sections of the E12 page (& some organizational/marketing tips) that he could use. Not long after I used to write for Macworld. He thought about it, but ended up basically saying "Our ladies are trying very hard, I feel it would be best to give them a chance to get better, no?"

I saw his point, but... I was mostly offering to proofread, help get the message they intended across through suggestion... I thought it could help his business AND his people get used to English. Oh well, maybe the descriptions will become part of the charm, or we'll all start talking Chinese.


----------



## NamelessPFG

davisman said:


> How much do you guys think Asus could charge for a xbox/ps3 compatible St or Stx mixamp? I personally would pay a premium, but I dont know that many others would. Especially considering the horrible sound most games come with.


 
  
 That depends on a number of factors.
  
 -What's the quality of the device? I don't expect something that amounts to an external Xonar DG to cost nearly as much as the existing Xonar Essence USB products.
 -Does it still work as a PC audio device with at least basic DS3D/OpenAL support, like the Recon3D USB?
 -Will it support next-gen and current-gen consoles alike, especially with Microsoft continuing their usual proprietary crap with Xbox One?
 -Will it have an HDMI passthrough for audio input? (Seriously, we need something with HDMI input that isn't a bulky AVR or the expensive Smyth Realiser, particularly for Wii U owners.)
  
 Then again, I'm thinking "should charge", not "could charge". Looking at existing gaming headsets, they may be able to get away with $200 or even $300 for a while, but if the quality isn't up-to-snuff, the negative reviews will shoot it down quick.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I actually PM'ed James a while ago, even sent him (after he said he'd think about it) a rewrite of the top few sections of the E12 page (& some organizational/marketing tips) that he could use. Not long after I used to write for Macworld. He thought about it, but ended up basically saying "Our ladies are trying very hard, I feel it would be best to give them a chance to get better, no?"
> 
> I saw his point, but... I was mostly offering to proofread, help get the message they intended across through suggestion... I thought it could help his business AND his people get used to English. Oh well, maybe the descriptions will become part of the charm, or we'll all start talking Chinese.


 
  
  
 No offense to FiiO's ladies, but their pages can still read like google translations sometimes.  It's the _little things_, which apparently their translators don't notice, that make the difference between it sounding like a google translation and sounding natural.  All it needs is a quick proof read with a few small tweaks by a more fluid english speaker. 
  
 While the almost-there engrish is sort of adorable, it's also a bit awkward and slow to read, requiring double takes on some passages to decode what their trying to say.  Some simple touch ups would both improve the readability _and _help to convey the product information better - something I'm sure FiiO would appreciate.  Having awkward text also sort of clashes with the otherwise pretty polished looking design of the product pages.  Regardless of the quality product shots and marketing graphics, the lowest common denominator is the text descriptions, and they sort of bring the rest down.
  
 A couple FiiO-isms:
  


> _- "the sound would be no longer the true and original one of the live scene."_
> _- "moreover, owning to the high current  AD8397 equipped with, its output sound quality goes closely to that of A-class amplifier"_
> _- "equipped with all-over aluminum design externally, it also embedded with generous cost fixing support internally, which makes Mont Blance "Inside equals outside."_


----------



## Orion1991

chicolom said:


> I actually started writing them an email a while ago but then stopped.  The message is still saved as a draft though.
> 
> We should invite James from FiiO into a discussion about a gaming product and what features we'd want in the design.
> 
> ...


 
 hmm I'll probably stick with the sennheisers and their  famous velour pads  But thanks for help help mate, I was pretty confused.
  
 Id love to take your opinion (and everyone else here) on the V-MODA Crossfade LP, its on 100$ on amazon and there is a huge amount of positive reviews on it.


----------



## Naingolann

IIRC those are closed and ultra-bassy.


----------



## benbenkr

davisman said:


> How much do you guys think Asus could charge for a xbox/ps3 compatible St or Stx mixamp? I personally would pay a premium, but I dont know that many others would. Especially considering the horrible sound most games come with.


 
  
 Looking at how much they are charging for a Essence STU (which is basically just an external ST/STX), not looking good if they make a console "mixamp".
  
 Expecting around $300 if they make one, which is why FiiO would be better at making a device like this instead. However, I don't know if FiiO is large enough to cater to the market if their "mixamp" picks off, since the company is still really small even by China's standards.
  
 DH and DTS Headphone X in one FiiO device would be a dream come true, something I'm sure most people here would pay $200 for as a sweet spot.


----------



## chococya96

For the DX mic, there seem to be two separate versions:
 - http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
 - http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-3-5mm-jack-180cm-cable-42965
  
 I see no difference between these two mics though the latter one costs a dollar more and got released three years after the first one. With that in mind, I presume the latter one is an "improved" version but I'm not quite sure.
  
 I also found this one (different version) which looks exactly like the DX mic except it has a braided cable.
  
 Which one am I suppose to get?


----------



## davisman

namelesspfg said:


> That depends on a number of factors.
> 
> -What's the quality of the device? I don't expect something that amounts to an external Xonar DG to cost nearly as much as the existing Xonar Essence USB products.
> -Does it still work as a PC audio device with at least basic DS3D/OpenAL support, like the Recon3D USB?
> ...


 
 This is pretty fair I think. Have they announced the price for the new STU? If you would take that unit and add dolby headphone/DTS with chat capabilities, and you would have a winner.


----------



## Evshrug

orion1991 said:


> hmm I'll probably stick with the sennheisers and their  famous velour pads  But thanks for help help mate, I was pretty confused.
> 
> Id love to take your opinion (and everyone else here) on the V-MODA Crossfade LP, its on 100$ on amazon and there is a huge amount of positive reviews on it.



I had an LP, not bad actually for a closed can, but the treble doesn't extend very well and it doesn't do virtual surround as well as the M-100 (which obviously cost more). It was kinda fun for a colored music headphone, but it's not a gaming headphone for competitive use. Look for my 2 part (3 part) review on YouTube, same username.


----------



## Orion1991

ya I thought so, they are definitely not for gaming, I guess i'll stick to HD558, bigger soundstage and higher quality over all, btw I have Asus Xonar DS 7.1, manily for my speakers, but will it help emit virtual surround for the headphones ?  its not really a big concern tho.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah I think it should. I was fairly impressed with the HD558 when I demo'd it at Best Buy, there aren't any faults to what it does. You may appreciate putting a cheap FiiO E5 amp between your headphones and the headphone jack, to prevent any sound quality issues from the soundcard's output impedance.

Did you see my video?


----------



## davisman

benbenkr said:


> Looking at how much they are charging for a Essence STU (which is basically just an external ST/STX), not looking good if they make a console "mixamp".
> 
> Expecting around $300 if they make one, which is why FiiO would be better at making a device like this instead. However, I don't know if FiiO is large enough to cater to the market if their "mixamp" picks off, since the company is still really small even by China's standards.
> 
> DH and DTS Headphone X in one FiiO device would be a dream come true, something I'm sure most people here would pay $200 for as a sweet spot.


 
 I would jerk their arm out of their sockets @ 200 bucks. 
  
 That is the fear I would guess, they are afraid of pricing themselves out of the market.


----------



## designbykai

ethan7000 said:


> Sound recording for Battlefield 4
> 
> http://blogs.battlefield.com/2013/10/road-to-bf4-sounds-of-the-battlefield/




Hmm, I wonder if in game audio will be any diff/better than bf3 tho... Really must try the demo. The positional cues were whack in bf3, terrible. Bc2 was better as a competitive game in that respect IMO..


----------



## pervysage

A DH/DTS headphone device would be amazing.
  
 I'm always wanting to watch movies with my headphones but they are all DTS sound and won't work with the Astro Mixamp.
  
 Are there any good DTS headphone devices on the market right now?


----------



## PurpleAngel

pervysage said:


> A DH/DTS headphone device would be amazing.
> I'm always wanting to watch movies with my headphones but they are all DTS sound and won't work with the Astro Mixamp.
> Are there any good DTS headphone devices on the market right now?


 
 Not sure about what is out right now, But I'm guessing there will be more DTS headphone surround sound devices in the future.


----------



## Evshrug

pervysage said:


> A DH/DTS headphone device would be amazing.
> 
> I'm always wanting to watch movies with my headphones but they are all DTS sound and won't work with the Astro Mixamp.
> 
> Are there any good DTS headphone devices on the market right now?



There was one... But it was pretty rare, and discontinued now. Mad figured out how to get a DTS signal changed to Dolby using a PS3, I think it's in his page 1 guide and may be worth your time looking for


----------



## Orion1991

evshrug said:


> Yeah I think it should. I was fairly impressed with the HD558 when I demo'd it at Best Buy, there aren't any faults to what it does. You may appreciate putting a cheap FiiO E5 amp between your headphones and the headphone jack, to prevent any sound quality issues from the soundcard's output impedance.
> 
> Did you see my video?


 
 yes sir, but it made things difficult for me to decide


----------



## NamelessPFG

designbykai said:


> Hmm, I wonder if in game audio will be any diff/better than bf3 tho... Really must try the demo. The positional cues were whack in bf3, terrible. Bc2 was better as a competitive game in that respect IMO..


 
  
 Yet my experience is the exact opposite...BF:BC2 had nonexistent positional cues, utterly terrible mixing. It was a complete insult given what you can get from BF1942 through BF2142.
  
 I thought BF3 was gonna suck as well, just by being based on Frostbite, 'til I got a $5 copy and found that the audio actually has a sense of directionality now, like it should have had all along. Enhanced Stereo Mode also works surprisingly well for those who don't already have a sound card with virtual surround tech of any sort.


----------



## ethan7000

namelesspfg said:


> Yet my experience is the exact opposite...BF:BC2 had nonexistent positional cues, utterly terrible mixing. It was a complete insult given what you can get from BF1942 through BF2142.
> 
> I thought BF3 was gonna suck as well, just by being based on Frostbite, 'til I got a $5 copy and found that the audio actually has a sense of directionality now, like it should have had all along. Enhanced Stereo Mode also works surprisingly well for those who don't already have a sound card with virtual surround tech of any sort.



The sound recording work on BF4 has resulted in incredibly realistic and immersive game sounds. They are absolutely superior to BF3. However, I feel like directionality/positioning is basically the same as BF3 (although footsteps are more pronounced in Bf4). I think it's very good in both games. I don't remember how good positioning was in BC2, it's been a while.


----------



## Evshrug

orion1991 said:


> yes sir, but it made things difficult for me to decide



Lol! Well, you know the head-fi saying: "Sorry about your wallet!" If it helps any, the LPs are definitely colored, and definitely on the "fun" side of the competitive—all-rounder—fun spectrum. The M-100 is closer to "all-rounder," and will still give you an advantage over speakers, but it costs more and with stock pads the comfort doesn't compare with the open headphones we like.


----------



## guily6669

ethan7000 said:


> The sound recording work on BF4 has resulted in incredibly realistic and immersive game sounds. They are absolutely superior to BF3. However, I feel like directionality/positioning is basically the same as BF3 (although footsteps are more pronounced in Bf4). I think it's very good in both games. I don't remember how good positioning was in BC2, it's been a while.


 

 BF3 sound is bugged for me... Some times footsteps on your back are completely CUT which suck.
  
 Bf3 sound effects are good, but I still don't like how it sounds. Way too artificial. Everything has some kind of reverbs everywhere (real life doesn't sound like that at all, it sounds a lot more clear).
  
 All those extra effects give you a headache 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Keep Cool


----------



## Orion1991

evshrug said:


> Lol! Well, you know the head-fi saying: "Sorry about your wallet!" If it helps any, the LPs are definitely colored, and definitely on the "fun" side of the competitive—all-rounder—fun spectrum. The M-100 is closer to "all-rounder," and will still give you an advantage over speakers, but it costs more and with stock pads the comfort doesn't compare with the open headphones we like.


 
 everyone seems to stick with open headphones ya, I guess I'll stick with the HD558+mic even tho the LPs are pretty tempting, but over all the HD558 wins in every aspect as I have been told, bigger sound stage for gaming, and as I have been informed the sound quality doesn't even compare.
  
 I have been meaning to ask you about the sound leak in open headphones, how bad is it ? if I crank up the volume is it really loud, I don't want to wake up my bro  hes in a different room tho.


----------



## conquerator2

orion1991 said:


> everyone seems to stick with open headphones ya, I guess I'll stick with the HD558+mic even tho the LPs are pretty tempting, but over all the HD558 wins in every aspect as I have been told, bigger sound stage for gaming, and as I have been informed the sound quality doesn't even compare.
> 
> I have been meaning to ask you about the sound leak in open headphones, how bad is it ? if I crank up the volume is it really loud, I don't want to wake up my bro  hes in a different room tho.


 
 No, it certainly won't wake up someone in a different room.
 Of course it depends on the isolation of the house/flat.
 If you have glassy doors or thin walls then he might hear it but it is certainly not loud.
  
 I personally don't understand the take on closed headphones around here.
 There are very good open headphones and very good closed headphones.
 It is just that MLE hates pleather and leather and most closed backs come with that, hence his preference for opens.
  
 I don't really find the difference nowhere near as big as people makes it around here, much like with anything.
 I think the difference between open X closed is smaller in comparison to the Sennheiser vs Audio Technica house sound/signature for example.
 I like both and I certainly can't say open ALWAYS sounds better than closed. I've heard some closed that outperformed opens but that is just my opinion.
  
 Anyway, buy what you will. Decide by signature rather than open/close [if you necessary don't need one or the other].
 I am going with closed this time around [ATH-A900X] due to portability, which requires it. MLE doesn't really like this particular can, but that is not a reason to discredit the overwhelmingly positive response these received,
  
 MLE [again, I am using him just as an example] is a very informed person and knows a lot but he, much like you a me has a preference for X headphone over Y headphone so everything one says is obviously totally subjective.
 I always try to get opinions form more head-fiers to help me decide, rather than relying on just one opinion.


----------



## miceblue

I actually like leather or pleather pads. XD

They're easy to clean/maintain, they don't absorb the smell of whoever wears them, and hair doesn't cling to it. It seriously disgusts me when I go to meets and the velour pads have all sorts of who-knows-what on them.


----------



## guily6669

That's my opinion too. I like leather.
  
 I don't like much all the other materials which get all dirty and at some point it's impossible to clean them to look like new.
  
 And I prefer closed headphones A LOT. Just by wearing them it feels different, and they get a lot more imersive since I can't hear my PC fans, Xbox360 loud fans I have, mouse clicks...
*Keep Cool*


----------



## modulor

I feel even from the BF4 demo, there was better positional audio and sound quality in general compared to BF3.  Not the best I've heard, but definitely an improvement.  Excited to see how the full release fares...got it pre-installed and ready to go!


----------



## Evshrug

orion1991 said:


> everyone seems to stick with open headphones ya, I guess I'll stick with the HD558+mic even tho the LPs are pretty tempting, but over all the HD558 wins in every aspect as I have been told, bigger sound stage for gaming, and as I have been informed the sound quality doesn't even compare.
> 
> I have been meaning to ask you about the sound leak in open headphones, how bad is it ? if I crank up the volume is it really loud, I don't want to wake up my bro  hes in a different room tho.



My opinion on sound leak?? Well, it's kinda hard to tell, my mom is a little hard of hearing, so she totally sleeps through me chatting with my buddies while playing CoD late at night (though heaven forbid I turn on my light and it shines through my cracked door around the hallway and through the crack under her door... SHE WAKES!!!), and I done have nearby friends who listen to music around me.

I think, in the end, it depends on how sensitive/bothered another person is with sound. In the silence of the night, I have to turn off my monitor (even though it's in sleep mode) because the LED makes a faint but high-pitched eeeeeeeeei that keeps me awake (I kinda have insomnia anyway) and my friend's phone vibrating in the nextdoor dormroom (when I was in college) would wake me up, but a lot of people sleep with the TV on. Does your house have insulation and double layer walls, or do you have those single layer drywalls? Most cases, in the same room as open headphones others could hear a whisper from your headphones, and the leakage doesn't have the energy to pass through walls. If you listen at deafening levels, however...

If I get a moment to myself (not now, gotta sleep), I'll post a new YouTube vid comparing my closed V-MODA (IMO the LP and M-100 isolate the same, judging from making my friends listen) vs my open K712. Maybe also my Apple EarPods for a baseline, and also my IEMs for quietest-case scenario.


----------



## Orion1991

evshrug said:


> My opinion on sound leak?? Well, it's kinda hard to tell, my mom is a little hard of hearing, so she totally sleeps through me chatting with my buddies while playing CoD late at night (though heaven forbid I turn on my light and it shines through my cracked door around the hallway and through the crack under her door... SHE WAKES!!!), and I done have nearby friends who listen to music around me.
> 
> I think, in the end, it depends on how sensitive/bothered another person is with sound. In the silence of the night, I have to turn off my monitor (even though it's in sleep mode) because the LED makes a faint but high-pitched eeeeeeeeei that keeps me awake (I kinda have insomnia anyway) and my friend's phone vibrating in the nextdoor dormroom (when I was in college) would wake me up, but a lot of people sleep with the TV on. Does your house have insulation and double layer walls, or do you have those single layer drywalls? Most cases, in the same room as open headphones others could hear a whisper from your headphones, and the leakage doesn't have the energy to pass through walls. If you listen at deafening levels, however...
> 
> If I get a moment to myself (not now, gotta sleep), I'll post a new YouTube vid comparing my closed V-MODA (IMO the LP and M-100 isolate the same, judging from making my friends listen) vs my open K712. Maybe also my Apple EarPods for a baseline, and also my IEMs for quietest-case scenario.


 
  
 That would be really helpful  Thanks a million for your help.
 Also the walls are pretty thick, concrete, but I do believe the sound leaks from the door, and did I mention that I am using the apple earpods that wake up my brother sometimes 
  


guily6669 said:


> That's my opinion too. I like leather.
> 
> I don't like much all the other materials which get all dirty and at some point it's impossible to clean them to look like new.
> 
> ...


 
 as conquerator2 said I guess its also a matter of opinion, but the with leather/pleather is that they cause my ears to heat up and sweat after a while, but that's just me I guess, but lemme ask with an open headphones you can hear the mouse clicks ? I thought the outside noise had to be pretty loud to hear it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer open vs closed, because open has a more dimensional, more natural sound, with less to no resonances. Closed headphones collapse the soundstage and makes things sound literally walled in, resonant, and artificial. There is a reason the vast majority of flagship headphones are open. Open headphones are superior is basically every way other than maintaining the deepest levels of bass, which is now a non-issue for planarmagnetics like the HE400 and LCD2...

Closed headphones only use for me are in that they control noise. That's it. Since I don't need noise control, they're entirely useless for me. Even at work, I don't need to control noise.

Owned the Pro 900 which had velours, so it's not like it's impossible to find closed headphones with velours.

Now with the Shure SRH1540, comes another viable higher end closed headphone that isn't limited to sticky as all hell pleather and leather. Interested in hearing it, as the tonal balance sounds like it'd suit my tastes perfectly, though I have zero real world use for it.


----------



## guily6669

orion1991 said:


> That would be really helpful  Thanks a million for your help.
> Also the walls are pretty thick, concrete, but I do believe the sound leaks from the door, and did I mention that I am using the apple earpods that wake up my brother sometimes
> 
> as conquerator2 said I guess its also a matter of opinion, but the with leather/pleather is that they cause my ears to heat up and sweat after a while, but that's just me I guess, but lemme ask with an open headphones you can hear the mouse clicks ? I thought the outside noise had to be pretty loud to hear it.


 

 Well, in all open headphones I have\had I can hear everything from the exterior while gaming and the game gets quite less imersive, ruins it (I don't ever listen at full volume).
  
 I can definitely hear dogs outside, people talking, fans, mouse clicks and keyboard key pressing... (specially the constant fan sound from my xbox360 annoys me a lot, and yeah, it's modded and makes a hell of a noise).
  
  
 I also sweat a lot, but open ones with fabric also make me sweat a lot, and after the cushions get dirty\smelly what can I do with them? (put in garbage?).
  
  
  
 And then, in my MP3 I have the sennheiser CX-300 precision II. The MP3 is very low quality and not loud enough for most people. However with those in-hear headphones I listen at only 1 measure of volume and it's pretty enough for me (and volume has 30 bars, and I only use 1 bar of the 30 full volume which is incredible).
  
 They are lot more efficient and cut exterior noises, so I don't need high volumes. 1 volume bar = ~6 volume bars of my brother's normal hear-phones from sennheiser too.
  
  
 ps: Headphones are different than in-hear headphones. But they also share the feature that you don't need high volumes to kill exterior side, and it's just you + your headphones in your "own world", I just love that, but sadly nowadays I don't own any closed ones, but in the 90's I had some crazy ones from sennheisr aviation if i'm not mistaken, with two plugs (separated amplification for each side).
*Keep Cool*


----------



## conquerator2

orion1991 said:


> That would be really helpful  Thanks a million for your help.
> Also the walls are pretty thick, concrete, but I do believe the sound leaks from the door, and did I mention that I am using the apple earpods that wake up my brother sometimes
> 
> as conquerator2 said I guess its also a matter of opinion, but the with leather/pleather is that they cause my ears to heat up and sweat after a while, but that's just me I guess, *but lemme ask with an open headphones you can hear the mouse clicks ? I thought the outside noise had to be pretty loud to hear it.*


 
  
 Open headphones offer the least isolation. I have a pair of open cans and I can literally hear everything when there is no music playing. When there is, you shouldn't be able to hear much, but you still can hear some noises, depending on their intensity.
 Bottom line is that you want to have silence around you mostly, when you listen through open headphones as the isolation really is little to none. Night and day compared with IEMs/Closed.
  
 Sound leakage depends on how loud you listen. When you crank it up noticeably, they can easily sound like little speakers turned down a bit. So, they can generate quite some noise. All I know is that it can be heard through twos sets of doors [one wooden, one glass/wood] when I crank them up but it depends on the hearing and one's sleep deepness.


----------



## guily6669

Yeah. The crap Turtle Beach X12 I have (use them only for xbox and makes me pissed with their poor quality, sound like sound comes from inside a metal can and has lot of static noise from it's amp and worse it makes huge distortions even on low volumes when there's too much frequencies).
  
 On full volume they are actually almost as loud as my brother's laptop in the other room (he can hear them well).
  
 It doesn't matter much if you are wearing them or not, because it's loud for the exterior on both cases (just a little bit louder if not wearing them).
  
  
 I used a lot my Creative headphones as a speaker 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. And it was so damn loud 2 meters away from it (off course, a lot loud for what they are, not really loud like a 1000w speaker killing your hear and punching your face 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
Keep Cool


----------



## Orion1991

*can act like speakers on low volume" well, this doesn't sound too promising :/ 
  


> they can generate quite some noise. All I know is that it can be heard through twos sets of doors


 
  
 well **** son, and I am only gonna use the headphones at night when everyone is asleep since I cant use my speakers obviously, I guess I am have to make a sacrifice here and go for closed cans.
  
 Also again thank you everyone for your lovely feedback  quite informative.


----------



## conquerator2

orion1991 said:


> *can act like speakers on low volume" well, this doesn't sound too promising :/
> 
> 
> well **** son, and I am only gonna use the headphones at night when everyone is asleep since I cant use my speakers obviously, I guess I am have to *make a sacrifice here and go for closed cans.*
> ...


 
 Sacrifice? Hmph, more like a detour!


----------



## guily6669

Well there are good and bad headphones no matter if they are closed or open.
  
 I'm not in any kind a professional to say which is best (and only had one real closed one, the rest i have are in-hear portable phones).
  
 But the closed one I had from sennheiser aviation was the best headphone I ever owned till nowaday, and they actually sounded powerful and natural to me. (I remember the good old days of Nirvana on the Amplifier). However they didn't last long back then on the huge amplifier at high volumes.
  
  
 But for example my Turtle beach aren't anything closed, and they sound like you have a can in your hears (very strange bass frequency, and a huge loud strange frequency like way too much 200-500hz, everything sound artificial).
Keep Cool


----------



## conquerator2

guily6669 said:


> Well there are good and bad headphones no matter if they are closed or open.
> 
> I'm not in any kind a professional to say which is best (and only had one real closed one, the rest i have are in-hear portable phones).
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, they sound lifeless kinda and have this tin can effect and there is practically no bass... I had the PX5 and boy do I regret buying that... At least the transmitter is decent.
 Though if we are talking about audiophile headphones by the likes of Sennheiser, Audio Technica, AKG, ... the sound quality is marginally improved.
 Sure, there are merits to each open and closed headphone, but in the end, it is what you like that matters :]


----------



## Evshrug

Hey if you need closed, you need closed. My first Hi-Fi headphones were Etymotic IEMs, the kind that are like earplugs with speakers, and yeah it made a difference to block out all outside sound and only need a little volume to clearly hear _EVERYTHING._ Closed headphones are kinda in the middle for me, their advantages aren't as strong as either open or IEM headphones, but the benefit of those are you can put them on and take off easily/quickly. I actually find the form-fitting IEMs to be more comfortable than closed headphones in the long run, because _I am sensitive to heat_ and need breaks more often, but still... I have all three types. Four, I guess, if you count the earpods as earbuds, typical earbuds make my ears hurt and start to get sore almost the moment I put them on.

I'll still make the video. Good content to refresh my "if I knew then..." Journal guide.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> ...typical earbuds make my ears hurt and start to get sore almost the moment I put them on.


 
  
 This. I can't stand any ear bud that I've ever tried. Maybe my openings are too small for them to be comfortable. Whenever I put them on my tragus and antitragus start screaming at my brain. Oh well, now that I have a pair of customs I don't think I'll ever go back to universal IEM/earbuds.


----------



## Orion1991

Hmm I cant order until 1 week or so, but I was set on the senn HD588, but now that I think about it I don't want a pair of small speakers, I tend to crank up the volume, but you see the advantage of open headphones come in gaming, they are so much better than closed, thats why I was insisting on open....anyway here is some closed options :
  
 -Sennhiser HD449
 -Sennhiser HD439
 -V-MODA Crossfade LP
 -Creative Aurvana Live (Recommended by a lot also good for gaming)
 -Shure SRH240A (someone recommended this for me I dont know much about the Shure)


----------



## conquerator2

To be honest, I don't think the difference in gaming [open X closed] is not nearly as drastic as people make it look.
 I easily managed with both, as long as they aren't crap...


----------



## guily6669

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, they sound lifeless kinda and have this tin can effect and there is practically no bass... I had the PX5 and boy do I regret buying that... At least the transmitter is decent.
> Though if we are talking about audiophile headphones by the likes of Sennheiser, Audio Technica, AKG, ... the sound quality is marginally improved.
> Sure, there are merits to each open and closed headphone, but in the end, it is what you like that matters :]


 

 The X12 I have nothing is decent. I hate is that most of the stupid people were saying they are good quality and blahblahblah. They are actually the worst headphones I ever heard and are far worse than the first headset I ever bought from Chinese people for 5€. (Unless you enjoy the most artificial sound and lot's of distortion).
  
 They make nearly no bass, and when using bass boost, they make LOTS of bass (but not in the right frequency, it even make the quality worse, a very strange bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). I don't even know if quality can go worse than what Turtle Beach does.


conquerator2 said:


> To be honest, I don't think the difference in gaming [open X closed] is not nearly as drastic as people make it look.
> I easily managed with both, as long as they aren't crap...


 

 Well that depends a lot on the ambient surrounding you and at what volume you play.
  
 If you play it at full volume, nothing is much important at all as exterior sounds will not be heard.
  
 Now here, It makes me pissed playing games with the fan noise of my modded xbox360 trough the headphones.
  
  
 And the other reason are that games are not supposed to be bumping high volume frequencies all the time, so at the lower volume parts you hear everything from the exterior.
  
  
 ps: If you live alone without noise around you, it doesn't make much difference, but I hear my brother playing music on the laptop all night, cats, dogs, fans and so on...
Keep Cool


----------



## tmaxx123

http://slickdeals.net/f/6366442-pyle-home-phe7ab-fiio-e7-usb-dac-portable-headphone-amplifier-49-99-fs-or-prime-amazon?src=pdw
  
 pretty nice deal here. Anyone have and experience with this or the fiio e7? Supposedly this is a rebadged e7...
 May look into something like this to hook up to my mixamp for gaming, and laptop for music.


----------



## AxelCloris

That dac/amp has been fluctuating around $60 and under for a bit now. I stand corrected, it's not an OEM of the E7 just a copy. Still, $50 isn't bad at all for it.


----------



## tmaxx123

axelcloris said:


> That dac/amp has been fluctuating around $60 and under for a bit now. It's an OEM of the E7, yes. Still, $50 isn't bad at all for it.


 
 yea, i am a little new to the headphone dac/amp arena, so i am not sure if I would benefit any by hooking this up to my mixamp and "reamp" that signal. Or if my laptop output would benefit from this. Some reviews say its a drastic change, others say no difference....... who is right? lol


----------



## AxelCloris

tmaxx123 said:


> yea, i am a little new to the headphone dac/amp arena, so i am not sure if I would benefit any by hooking this up to my mixamp and "reamp" that signal. Or if my laptop output would benefit from this. Some reviews say its a drastic change, others say no difference....... who is right? lol


 
  
 It depends. Most laptops have a cheap $5 or less DAC built in and can really benefit from something like this. Some computers come with decent built in audio and won't show a dramatic change with a device like this. What headphones are you running off the Mixamp currently? Sometimes more power is needed, sometimes not. If it's an efficient headphone, it won't be necessary. But if it is one that could benefit from the amping I'd say go for it.


----------



## Evshrug

tmaxx123 said:


> http://slickdeals.net/f/6366442-pyle-home-phe7ab-fiio-e7-usb-dac-portable-headphone-amplifier-49-99-fs-or-prime-amazon?src=pdw
> 
> pretty nice deal here. Anyone have and experience with this or the fiio e7? Supposedly this is a rebadged e7...
> May look into something like this to hook up to my mixamp for gaming, and laptop for music.



Little bit of info in case someone reading this doesn't know... The DAC could only be used with tmaxx's laptop, the amp part of the E7 is all anyone could use after a Mixamp. If tmaxx has better than a cheap $500 laptop, the DAC part of the E7 would make little improvement. The E7's amp section is basically equal to a FiiO E5, so if you REALLY want a bargain to add an amp to your mixamo, then just get the amp for like $25.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Little bit of info in case someone reading this doesn't know... The DAC could only be used with tmaxx's laptop, the amp part of the E7 is all anyone could use after a Mixamp. If tmaxx has better than a cheap $500 laptop, the DAC part of the E7 would make little improvement. The E7's amp section is basically equal to a FiiO E5, so if you REALLY want a bargain to add an amp to your mixamo, then just get the amp for like $25.


Did he ever mention what headphones he's using? I missed it if he did...


----------



## miceblue

Yeah the E7 was a great external soundcard for my old 2008 MacBook, but not-so-great for my 2013 MacBook.


----------



## Evshrug

^ didn't see which ones. I know Tmaxx has been in here before, but I forget if he made a choice. Some reason I'm thinking a DT?

Anyway, in this situation "is this a good DAC/amp combo?" Headphone choice doesn't really enter it. That is, even if he has a low impedance headphone, the amp has a really low* output* impedance. The amp might just be not powerful enough for a hard-to-drive can, but most of those headphones have their users looking at desktop amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E7 doesn't have an OEM. Fiio makes their own, and someone copied them. You're not getting the same exact device. Build could be worse, etc.


----------



## tmaxx123

evshrug said:


> ^ didn't see which ones. I know Tmaxx has been in here before, but I forget if he made a choice. Some reason I'm thinking a DT?
> 
> Anyway, in this situation "is this a good DAC/amp combo?" Headphone choice doesn't really enter it. That is, even if he has a low impedance headphone, the amp has a really low* output* impedance. The amp might just be not powerful enough for a hard-to-drive can, but most of those headphones have their users looking at desktop amps.




good memory  im using the 2013 mixamp pro and beyerdynamic mmx300 headset for gaming on the ps3 and soon to be, ps4. My laptop is the new Alienware 14. Problem is that my old alienware laptop either had a better dac, or better sound software, because i cant seem to get great sound out of my new laptop. Either way i wqs looking at the e12 and e17, but still need to decide if i need something that expensive. 

 Also i recently got a new mixamp and the sound i am getting is much different then my previous mixamp even though they are identical models. now i have a bigger sound stage and easier positioning with more crisp highs, but less low end. maybe these have a "break in" period? 

thanks again guys for any input!


----------



## conquerator2

tmaxx123 said:


> good memory
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gets an Alienware 14, says E12/E17 is somewhat expensive.
 What am I missing? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 OT - yes there could be break-in period for the Mixamp, yes your older laptop could have had better hardware/software.
 I think the Fiio amps are great value but you can find other for similar prices.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have an Alienware M17x R4... and I use my E17.

Do the new Alienwares still use the Recond 3Di, or are they using some new soundcard?

The 3Di was a bit weak in comparison to the E17's amp. The DAC however (IIRC) was 24/192. Since i can't text the Recon 3Di's dac without being attached to the internal amp, I can't say how good or bad it is. I like it well enough for gaming, as when I'm away from home U use the Recon 3Di through the headphone out to my E17's aux in, so I can keep THX tru Studio for gaming.


----------



## kstuart

Something which came up on another thread... it would be helpful to some people if your top post included a list of "recommended closed headphones for gaming".   It's not unusual for someone to have a situation where they share a room with another family member, so they can only use a headphone that has good isolation.


----------



## tmaxx123

conquerator2 said:


> Gets an Alienware 14, says E12/E17 is somewhat expensive.
> What am I missing?
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Haha you bring up a good point, but I sold my previous alienware to get the new one. And i hope there is a break in period, because I miss the tight bass that i was getting. When bass hits it almost seems like the mixamp is clipping/distorting the signal, and I have tried all the EQ settings. Sounds like bass notes are muffled in a sense and are rolling off, rather than hitting that punchy bass like it used to.
  


mad lust envy said:


> I have an Alienware M17x R4... and I use my E17.
> 
> Do the new Alienwares still use the Recond 3Di, or are they using some new soundcard?
> 
> The 3Di was a bit weak in comparison to the E17's amp. The DAC however (IIRC) was 24/192. Since i can't text the Recon 3Di's dac without being attached to the internal amp, I can't say how good or bad it is. I like it well enough for gaming, as when I'm away from home U use the Recon 3Di through the headphone out to my E17's aux in, so I can keep THX tru Studio for gaming.


 
 The Alienware 14 uses Realtek HD audio and Dolby Home Theater v4 software. I think it may be the software, because I think the previous models used the same reltek hd audio, but when i activated and configured my soundblaster software, it saved my sound.(on my old laptop) This  Dolby Home theater makes the laptop sound good, but when headphones are hooked up it sounds terrible. ie no bass and soundstage is gone. 
  
 MLE, i saw you had the e12 as well, would you think I need that much power for powering the mmx300 on music/gaming or could i get away with the e17, or something cheaper for that matter?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 should be decent enough with it.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Well my cable for the hd558 craped out on me and I need a new one.
Anyone know where I can find a shorter version of the cable without that damn adapter at the end.

Also the monoprice 8320's are not for me since they get extremely painful in my ears after after a few minutes, I'm thinking of going for the Koss KSC75 but since there open I don know if there great outside, so are there any decent IEM's for $50 just in case?


----------



## modulor

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Well my cable for the hd558 craped out on me and I need a new one.
> Anyone know where I can find a shorter version of the cable without that damn adapter at the end.
> 
> Also the monoprice 8320's are not for me since they get extremely painful in my ears after after a few minutes, I'm thinking of going for the Koss KSC75 but since there open I don know if there great outside, so are there any decent IEM's for $50 just in case?


 
 I can recommend the KSC75, SportaPro and PortaPro for sure.  Also, for good sub-$50 IEMs look into Vsonic VSD1, SteelSeries Flux, Sony MH1C, LG Quadbeat.  Also, the LG Quadbeat 2 looks promising and can be found on Ebay pretty easily:
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/686412/lg-quadbeat-2-appreciation-thread
  
 There are replacement cables for those Senns on Ebay as well:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Replacement-Audio-upgrade-Cable-For-Sennheiser-HD598-HD558-HD518-Headphone-/261255113290


----------



## d1ce

I'm very interested in the Skullcandy Slyrs now after reading your review. Honestly, I would have never considered them prior. I'd love to see them make an open version. Would be perfect! I plan on purchasing them here soon, I'll report back with my impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I was able to demo the Momentum On Ear...



I expected more in both comfort and especially sound. What a let down. Sounded boomy, hollowed out in the mids, and thin up top. Just... no.


----------



## widdyjudas

With such expensive price and boomy sound, I think its targeted toward mainstream basshead crowds (beats lover)...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It really did sound like something out of the Beats catalog, actually. I expected more from Sennheiser.


----------



## miceblue

That's disappointing to hear...it's such a beautifully-crafted headphone too.


----------



## widdyjudas

Actually the "full sized" momentum sounds ok. However the leather and hard clamp really turn me down, not to mention the pricing...
 Too bad the on ear sounds like that. Those pads looks comfy.


----------



## SaLX

Upcoming Audio-Technica ATH gaming headsets. Saw this over at Overclock.net
 (H/T Aussiejuggalo):


----------



## conquerator2

A decent gaming headset?!
 No way.


----------



## SaLX

I'm surprised they too so long to capitalise on the (relative) success of the AD700's. Lob a mic on and change the paint scheme.


----------



## designbykai

Looks like they're going to retail for AU $279 here.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2169100
 Not exactly cheap, considering the AD700X can be had for $100-150
 The closed back one looks nicest and most interesting to me of the two


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like they fixed the loose fit. Both the open and closed versions look like they use cloth pads, though at different densities (not sure on the closed, but it didn't look like pleather to me).

Nice of Audio Technica to FINALLY put a legit headset out, seeing how popular the AD700 is.

I sorta wish they got in touch with me so I could review them.


----------



## chicolom

I don't understand why AT continues to design the cups on their open headphones to NOT pivot vertically, but they DO pivot vertically on their closed headphones.  No vertical pivotting causes uneven pressure on the either the jaw or temple and is the reason why some people have to physically bend their AD700s to get a good fit.
  
  
 The design is so similar that why not give them BOTH vertical gimbles instead of only the closed one.  Makes no sense.


----------



## Evshrug

The Full-sized momentum sounded pretty good, but the HD558 was right next to it and it was clear to me which of the two I would buy...

Oh, new Audio Technicas?
I agree the continued omission of gimbals is weird, but I wonder if the width [between pads at the point they become parallel and thus sit flat on a head] is now appropriate for European descent sized heads... The fit looked pretty good as well as I could tell on that Australian's head.

Release is always at MSRP, hopefully street prices will be lower in a few months (or a year), but I bet the more widely accepted color scheme, mic, "gaming" marketing, and fit will keep the price closer to MSRP than the "unique" AD700.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> The Full-sized momentum sounded pretty good, but the HD558 was right next to it and it was clear to me which of the two I would buy...
> 
> Oh, new Audio Technicas?
> I agree the continued omission of gimbals is weird, but I wonder if the width [between pads at the point they become parallel and thus sit flat on a head] is now appropriate for European descent sized heads... The fit looked pretty good as well as I could tell on that Australian's head.
> ...


 
 A900X? ;D


----------



## AxelCloris

Still using that horrible AT wing design? Count me out for sure. I absolutely cannot stand that headband for more than 30 seconds, even with the rubber band mod.


----------



## davisman

I like how one cable will work with the mixamp without the need for the adapter.


----------



## Change is Good

So, the AG2 arrived today and I was about to do some comparing with the iCAN to see if my Mad Dogs do scale better with the extra power. Well, once I tried to turn on the iCAN... it died again... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




... and I wasn't able to do any comparing.
  
 I just emailed iFi Audio so I'm waiting on a response as we speak. Chico, you say they responded to you pretty quickly, correct?


----------



## tmaxx123

mad lust envy said:


> Looks like they fixed the loose fit. Both the open and closed versions look like they use cloth pads, though at different densities (not sure on the closed, but it didn't look like pleather to me).
> 
> Nice of Audio Technica to FINALLY put a legit headset out, seeing how popular the AD700 is.
> 
> I sorta wish they got in touch with me so I could review them.


 
 Man, they should have contacted you, noticing the following this thread has created. I am DEF interested in the closed back ones, I may get a pair and make a comparison against my Beyer MMX-300. For 279.99 tho, they better be good.....
  
 If they use the same drivers as the ad700, can we expect a big jump from he mmx?


----------



## Murder Mike

> If they use the same drivers as the ad700, can we expect a big jump from he mmx?


 
 They will likely sound worse unless you're just getting them for soundwhoring and don't care much about immersion. And if they're closed, they might not even do that well.


----------



## AxelCloris

Steam Halloween Sale. There's some awesome games on discount. I'm probably going to pick up 7th Guest and 11th Hour. Haven't played them in years.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> A900X? ;D



Actually I was thinking the AD700X. For home use.



axelcloris said:


> Still using that horrible AT wing design? Count me out for sure. I absolutely cannot stand that headband for more than 30 seconds, even with the rubber band mod.



I re shaped the headband 
bars, and I was already used to the Earpads (and they were broken in), so I actually found their lighter weight and grip more comfortable than the Q701 long-term. The wings actually put less stress on my skull than the MA900 (cuz my crown ain't perfectly round, has a slight point/ridge in the center), so *for me* the AD700 (adjusted) holds my current position of most comfortable headphone for marathon listening sessions.



tmaxx123 said:


> Man, they should have contacted you, noticing the following this thread has created. I am DEF interested in the closed back ones, I may get a pair and make a comparison against my Beyer MMX-300. For 279.99 tho, they better be good.....
> 
> If they use the same drivers as the ad700, can we expect a big jump from he mmx?



They said the open ones had the same drivers as the AD700X, no comment on if the closed headphone shares a driver with another headphone. They compared the looks to the A500.



axelcloris said:


> Steam Halloween Sale. There's some awesome games on discount. I'm probably going to pick up 7th Guest and 11th Hour. Haven't played them in years.



Borderlands 2?
I haven't heard of the two games you mentioned. I'll check out the Steam app.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Borderlands 2?
> I haven't heard of the two games you mentioned. I'll check out the Steam app.


 
  
 They're from '93 and '95. I fell in love with them when I was little. 7th Guest is pretty much the software that secured the future of CD-ROM. If you've never played them they're definitely worth the money and your time. That's why 20 years later I'm still tempted to play them again. Great puzzles, amazing atmosphere, and the live action story telling is still fun to experience. I hold it in as high regard as I do Alone in the Dark from the same period. Ah, the days before ESRB ratings. My parents would let me buy any game I wanted as a kid 
  
 Rumor keeps circulating that the developers are working on a third story in the series. I'd absolutely love to see that.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> 7th Guest is pretty much the software that secured the future of CD-ROM.



I thought Myst did this? In a pretty big way? But yeah I'll check it out.
I remember being SOOO excited for the cutscene treats/rewards in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight between levels.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I thought Myst did this? In a pretty big way? But yeah I'll check it out.
> I remember being SOOO excited for the cutscene treats/rewards in Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight between levels.


 
  
 Yeah, Myst was also part of the push. It and 7th Guest were the killer apps for CD-ROM at the time. 7th Guest came out first, a few months before Myst I believe, but they were both big sellers.


----------



## SaLX

Jedi Knight? Brilliant. Light sabres, blaster bolts whizzing past and _that music, _which carried you all the way through the game. Now that I've just written that - the sound was a pretty significant part of that game's greatness. I can't remember if the sound was technically great game wise, but it was memorable, even now and just _so iconic_.


----------



## conquerator2

Muppet Monster Adventure, my very first PS1 game that started it all :]
 A brilliant game and I simply just love the score.


----------



## Orion1991

evshrug said:


> If I get a moment to myself (not now, gotta sleep), I'll post a new YouTube vid comparing my closed V-MODA (IMO the LP and M-100 isolate the same, judging from making my friends listen) vs my open K712. Maybe also my Apple EarPods for a baseline, and also my IEMs for quietest-case scenario.


 
  
 I am still hoping you make this video and haven't forgot about me


----------



## Change is Good

Wow, iFi Audio really does reply rather quickly. They are sending me a new power supply unit, tomorrow, as they are sure that is the issue.

I hope they're right because I hate to have a longer turnaround should I have to send it in afterwards...


----------



## Orion1991

Also has anyone tried the new AURVANA LIVE!2 ? its the new CAL haha "Over-the-ear headset with detachable cable and inline microphone" and they say they have taken then comfort to a whole new level, I wonder if anyone tried them yet.


----------



## davisman

Have you guys had a chance to check out the Spider Surround pro? I am thinking about getting it as an alternative to tracking down an AV receiver with dolby headphone for watching movies.


----------



## mpawluk91

In the vast amount of gaming experience here in this thread can someone tell me which mix amp to buy ???

I do not want wireless 
I will be amping with my arrow 4g
I need the best quality possible

Or maybe someone can recommend a better alternitive to the mix amp within close to the same price

In the end I just need awesome 7.1 for my headphones

Headphone list : UE 6000, SRH840, YAMAHA PRO 400

Thank you much


----------



## Chubtoad

has there been any kind of confirmation as to what model of headphone those new ATH headsets are? they do look pretty nice but not so nice if they have no bass.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> So, the AG2 arrived today and I was about to do some comparing with the iCAN to see if my Mad Dogs do scale better with the extra power. Well, once I tried to turn on the iCAN... it died again...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
   
Bummer :\

  
 Have you compared the Asgard to the M-stage any?


----------



## Change is Good

Not any A/B-ing, yet, but off memory I can definitely tell the MDs _and_ the K712s both scale better with the extra power... expecially the MDs. It gives both headphones more body to their sound signatures and surprisingly has an openness to it as well. Not as large as the M-Stage, I think, but definitely larger than the iCAN on default.
  
 I will do some definite A/B-ing with the M-Stage on Thursday and over the weekend... so I'll be back with more impressions. I'm really liking what I'm hearing, so far.
  
 Ironically, the reason I got this amp was for the MDs... which I just sold to fund something else. It looks like I'll be keeping it, however, because I really like what it's doing to the K712 enough to justify it. I can only hope it has the same effect on what's coming next...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I sense a 1540 in Change's future.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I sense a 1540 in Change's future.


 
  




  
 I sense an HD800 in Chico's future...


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Not any A/B-ing, yet, but off memory I can definitely tell the MDs _and_ the K712s both scale better with the extra power... expecially the MDs. It gives both headphones more body to their sound signatures and surprisingly has an openness to it as well. Not as large as the M-Stage, I think, but definitely larger than the iCAN on default.
> 
> I will do some definite A/B-ing with the M-Stage on Thursday and over the weekend... so I'll be back with more impressions. I'm really liking what I'm hearing, so far.
> 
> Ironically, the reason I got this amp was for the MDs... which I just sold to fund something else. It looks like I'll be keeping it, however, because I really like what it's doing to the K712 enough to justify it. I can only hope it has the same effect on what's coming next...


 
  
  
 Interesting.
  
 I still think there's way too much overlap between an M-stage and an Asgard to own both, but I guess your reasoning is that you need an amp in two different spots and can't move it?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I still think there's way too much overlap between an M-stage and an Asgard to own both, but I guess your reasoning is that you need an amp in two different spots and can't move it?


 
  
 Yeah, gaming rig is on entertainment center and desktop rig is on, well, my _very_ small desk lol.
  
 I still haven't decided, yet... I'll have to compare all three for a few days before making a definite decision. iFi emailed me back and it looks like they'll be sending me a new power adaptor soon.


----------



## Change is Good

By the way, MLE, how are you enjoying your MA900s since you got them back? We haven't heard much from you on in the thread ever since...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Super happy with my MA900s. I'm kind of getting over headphones. IF the MA900 gets to the point where I wanna swap them out, I may go for the K712 Pro and call it quits. Not because I wanna replace the MA900, but because the pads just need to be better. I'm gonna order some high or low density foam to stick onto the headband and see if that makes the minor discomfort disappear. As for the ear pads... they bother me very little once in awhile, so I MIGHT have one day where I get frsutrated enough to wanna get the K712 Pro. But honestly, I don't use headphones much anymore, other than at work.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Super happy with my MA900s. I'm kind of getting over headphones. IF the MA900 gets to the point where I wanna swap them out, I may go for the K712 Pro and call it quits. Not because I wanna replace the MA900, but because the pads just need to be better. I'm gonna order some high or low density foam to stick onto the headband and see if that makes the minor discomfort disappear. As for the ear pads... they bother me very little once in awhile, so I MIGHT have one day where I get frsutrated enough to wanna get the K712 Pro. But honestly, I don't use headphones much anymore, other than at work.




Ow, I thought we used headphones all the time! ;/


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Super happy with my MA900s. I'm kind of getting over headphones. IF the MA900 gets to the point where I wanna swap them out, I may go for the K712 Pro and call it quits. Not because I wanna replace the MA900, but because the pads just need to be better. I'm gonna order some high or low density foam to stick onto the headband and see if that makes the minor discomfort disappear. As for the ear pads... they bother me very little once in awhile, so I MIGHT have one day where I get frsutrated enough to wanna get the K712 Pro. But honestly, I don't use headphones much anymore, other than at work.


 
  
 Whaaaat? You getting over headphones?!? Blasphemy! LOL
  
 I hope you still are enthused enough to keep reviewing headphones should the opportunity present itself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Ow, I thought we used headphones all the time! ;/




Used to. Lately, not much.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, you've spurned on the enthusiasm of many others. I actually started getting into headphones and Hi-Fi, and then I basically got over headphones and disappeared for a while, before you started the thread, but I found this and my second coming has me more enthusiastic and spending more time (and money) on headphones than before.

I hope to be there if/when your enthusiasm rekindles, it is infectious


----------



## tmaxx123

evshrug said:


> Well, you've spurned on the enthusiasm of many others. I actually started getting into headphones and Hi-Fi, and then I basically got over headphones and disappeared for a while, before you started the thread, but I found this and my second coming has me more enthusiastic and spending more time (and money) on headphones than before.
> 
> I hope to be there if/when your enthusiasm rekindles, it is infectious


 
 agreed. The amount of information I have retained from this thread is immeasurable. I guess once you have experienced all there is to experience, the interest tapers off.


----------



## chicolom

tmaxx123 said:


> I guess once you have experienced all there is to experience, the interest tapers off.


 
  
 Very few people have experienced all there is to experience.  The next tier of gear jumps up in price though.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 So the fullness of the wallet (or lack thereof) _may _play a part.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yesterday I had the MMX 300 2013 Edition on my head for 2 hours L4D2 and half an hour MoH: WF and it's the most balanced "DT770" I ever listened to (I actually listened to all of them) the smoothest highs and a non bloated or overblown bass. Actually no overpowering bass at ALL so quite ready for competitive play.
  
 Before the DT770 LE had the smoothest highs of all (to me) yet still with a hint of sibilance at times and the bass could sometimes be too much, still less than all other models. The MMX 300 is even better in that case as in only hitting hard when it needs to, generally more balanced along the spectrum. "Marina and the Diamonds - Shampain" is one of those tracks that exposes sibilance very very well and the MMX 300 actually passed it 100% to my surprise. The DT770 LE did not that well, the T90, Pro Ultrasones failed horribly. It has the biggest soundstage (more in width though) of all DT770s but also requires more power than the DT770 LE, TH-900.
  
 When I checked with Beyer they mentioned a few things they changed with the dampening and housing  especially as it shares a lot with their Aviation HS-400. The comfort is good but this one has the most weight of all Beyers I encountered. Don't remember the T1 too well but it's quite noticable. 
  
 Edit: I have the PC360 as well and it doesn't hold up well, as in less transparency and less fun in the bass, yet still good as an allrounder.


----------



## Evshrug

The only point a person has experienced "everything there is to experience" is when they die... No more will they gain experience. Meanwhile, the mind needs new stimulus, even I get bored of video games if I play too much. Mad's got pretty satisfactory headphones (headband felt the same way to me, Mad, overall not so bad), and it has sounded like his income waxes and wains with little warning, so maybe he needs to find a new hobby. Maybe he'll pick up Kendama, or cooking, a next-gen game console, or (le gasp) put his attention towards a lady 
And a couple of months or a year from now, we'll say "Hi!" and catch him up on all the new stuff. Pretty sure something will lure his interest/lust back


----------



## Fegefeuer

While all that experience is nice to have there comes a point where you realize that you should do other things more often or (if we talk about this hobby) stick to the stuff you have or want to have and live with its downsides. There's always a compromise, nothing's perfect. The lust for more in this hobby is like striving for perfection, it's just though that people put all blame and hope onto gear rather than their very own abilities to "just" enjoy and immerse. Many people suffer from short attention spans, can't put their mind into the immersion. It's a disconnection between them and the medium. The "listening to gear rather than to the music" is one of those disconnections. 
  


Spoiler: :)



MLE should get a TH-600!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Perhaps if you *gave* me one, It'd jumpstart my appetite for headphones again.


----------



## handfootya

I'd personally save up the extra cash for the Antlion modmic if you want a full-sized microphone, as it's not permanent, and easier to attach/detach.


----------



## SaLX

@Feg, nice write-up. I knew that MMX 300 was based on the DT770 LE and tuned for gaming - it's good to hear some praise of it's qualities. Beyer's PR guys really didn't get the message out that it was most certainly _not_ just a plain old 770 with a microphone; as that's all I heard from the forums etc when I was researching this headset.
  
 Did you get a chance to check out the microphone's quality, or the what was the owners thoughts on it? I think this new version was meant to be improved over the older model. Was it the 32 Ohm or 600 version?
  
 Shame MLE didn't get a chance to review it.


----------



## Orion1991

handfootya said:


> I'd personally save up the extra cash for the Antlion modmic if you want a full-sized microphone, as it's not permanent, and easier to attach/detach.


 
 where do you get one ? on their website it says sold out, and its unavailable on amazon and ebay, and i am pretty sure this is much better and more practical than the zulman clip on mic which is 30$ dollars now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

salx said:


> @Feg, nice write-up. I knew that MMX 300 was based on the DT770 LE and tuned for gaming - it's good to hear some praise of it's qualities. Beyer's PR guys really didn't get the message out that it was most certainly _not_ just a plain old 770 with a microphone; as that's all I heard from the forums etc when I was researching this headset.
> 
> Did you get a chance to check out the microphone's quality, or the what was the owners thoughts on it? I think this new version was meant to be improved over the older model. Was it the 32 Ohm or 600 version?
> 
> Shame MLE didn't get a chance to review it.




The problem with the MMX300 is that the older MMX300s were inconsistent and basically WERE basically premium 32ohm DT770s. Some were bass heavy, some were balanced. Judging by what you guys are saying, the MMX300 you've listened to was like the latter.

DT770s... you never know what you're gonna get. That's why I swore off the 770s.


----------



## dandiego

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, Myst was also part of the push. It and 7th Guest were the killer apps for CD-ROM at the time. 7th Guest came out first, a few months before Myst I believe, but they were both big sellers.


 
 Just started following this thread and still trying to absorb all the great info.  This is a bit off-topic, but for the fellow Myst fans out there, you may be interested in this:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction  Just an FYI, thanks.


----------



## Duckface

Hmm , still wondering HD 669B's or AD 700X ?


----------



## conquerator2

duckface said:


> Hmm , still wondering HD 669B's or AD 700X ?


 
 I'd go with 700X probably but that is just me


----------



## Evshrug

dandiego said:


> Just started following this thread and still trying to absorb all the great info.  This is a bit off-topic, but for the fellow Myst fans out there, you may be interested in this:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cyaninc/obduction  Just an FYI, thanks.



Oooh. OOOOH!



mad lust envy said:


> I sense a 1540 in Change's future.



What is this "1540" you speak of, anyway?



orion1991 said:


> I am still hoping you make this video and haven't forgot about me



Haven't forgotten about you... Guess I gotta apologize, I was torn between making this (and figuring out how to prop up my phone to use as camera/mic) and playing Batman... Batman kinda won out, good news is I got stuck on a Riddler challenge last night


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> What is this "1540" you speak of, anyway?


 
  
http://www.shure.com/americas/products/earphones-headphones/headphones/srh1540-premium-closed-back-headphones
  
 It shipped out today so I should receive it by Monday at the latest.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I understand that feeling on "burning out" on headphones, all right.
  
 Two years ago, Head-Fi was a new frontier, full of the unknown, with plenty to learn. Now, I know more or less what I want out of a headphone with my first-hand experience, and the MA900 gets me most of the way there with a little EQ to bring out the treble.
  
 As for Mad Lust Envy's willingness to review more headphones...well, I did make an offer earlier, but the cost of shipping such expensive equipment (mainly the amp) proved to be an issue, along with financial matters on my end necessitating an early sale of said equipment and the fact that it's vintage gear that's been discontinued for a decade or two. Now he'll have to ask a certain someone else to audition that stuff.
  
 About all I have to offer now would be an old Sansui SS-20, which isn't bad in sound quality but lacks soundstage and weighs A LOT (seriously, if you're complaining about the weight of the HE-400, that weighs NOTHING next to this thing) and the GE H-22, the unquestionably worst headphone ever whose only purpose is to give you new-found appreciation for everything else you've ever heard.
  
 Right now, my current pursuit is Haswell overclocking...too bad my particular i5-4670K sucks.


----------



## widdyjudas

namelesspfg said:


> I understand that feeling on "burning out" on headphones, all right.
> 
> Two years ago, Head-Fi was a new frontier, full of the unknown, with plenty to learn. Now, I know more or less what I want out of a headphone with my first-hand experience, and the MA900 gets me most of the way there with a little EQ to bring out the treble.
> 
> ...


 

 That cpu sux? I'm planning to build pc with that cpu...
 Can you advice me between i7 3770k or i5 4670k, mainly for gaming and work (email and office only)? I will use the gtx770 and mainly gaming on 1080p single monitor.


----------



## NamelessPFG

widdyjudas said:


> That cpu sux? I'm planning to build pc with that cpu... Can you advice me between i7 3770k or i5 4670k, mainly for gaming and work (email and office only)? I will use the gtx770 and mainly gaming on 1080p single monitor.


 
  
 When I say it sucked, I meant my particular sample, *specifically from an overclocking standpoint.* Most people can push these things to 4.6 GHz with less voltage than I need to hit 4.4 GHz, going by my initial experiments.
  
 It would walk all over my Q6600 at stock clocks for sure, and I'd definitely recommend it for new builds. It's just that overclocking results are a crapshoot; it's a chip lottery, as they say.
  
 That said, I still have to learn how to overclock this thing properly. Overclocking Haswell CPUs is more of a challenge not just because of the architecture and manufacturing variances, but because they integrated a voltage regulator into the CPU itself. That means more voltages to work with besides the usual Vcore. It's not helped by people calling the same damn voltage adjustments all sorts of different names.
  
 I'd still recommend Haswell over Ivy Bridge if you're not on an extremely tight budget, since it's a more modern platform with more features courtesy of the Z87 chipset and newer instruction sets that future programs will certainly utilize, and it also performs better at the same clock speed. The IPC improvments are modest enough compared to Ivy Bridge and even Sandy Bridge that most people who own those CPUs don't feel the need to upgrade, but we're talking about a brand new build here.


----------



## widdyjudas

This is my first ever pc build, and I need as much advice as possible. All hardware sites said for gaming purpose, i5 is more than enough since i7 cpu didn't give much more performance for its price.
 I might not even want to OC it... Later might be. My budget is around usd 1500, with 21 or 23 mon and 120gb ssd I hope.
 So I5 4670k is good enough? How about the 4570k? Also, any suggestion with soundcard?


----------



## NamelessPFG

The i7's main benefit is Hyper-Threading. The vast majority of games will not utilize the 8 threads you get, but most will make good use of four threads (all with a whole physical core with the i5, since it's quad-core).
  
 Games tend to benefit most from Intel's single-threaded performance advantage, which doesn't change much between i5 and i7, though the i7-4770K has 8 MB of L3 cache over the i5-4670K's 6 MB of L3 cache, which may make a SLIGHT difference in the i7's favor per clock. Of course, that performance advantage carries across every thread, so games that can make use of the i5's four threads really feel the boost. The i7's Hyper-Threading isn't a complete linear scaling since it's not an octo-core, but benchmarks have shown it to be a lot more than expected. The thing is, most of those benchmarks aren't for games, but video encoding apps and stuff like that.
  
 This may change in the future; people are citing Battlefield 4 performance as a possible sign of things to come, though I have yet to see any proper charts and graphs that a serious evaluation would show.
  
 US$1500 is a great budget to work with; you've got plenty of room there for good parts! However, the fact that you're wanting to include a new monitor in that budget will eat into your funds. The monitors I'd want are often north of $250, and the more you spend on your monitor, the less you have to spend on what you're connecting to it.
  
 For instance, the monitor I'd recommend for someone who prioritizes gaming above all else and needs something readily available (read: not a Sony GDM-FW900 that's been discontinued for a decade) is the Asus VG248QE due to its high refresh rate and astoundingly low input lag, but that's $280 on Newegg and Amazon already, not including the price of shipping or the DIY NVIDIA G-SYNC kits that they're about to sell for it.
  
 As for sound cards, I'm always going to favor the Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD (partly out of preference for CMSS-3D Headphone, still playing older games and making use of some of its more exotic features), but it cannot be denied that the Xonar Essence STX and Sound Blaster Zx have gained a lot of ground with PC gamers lately.
  
 Also, now's a fairly good time to buy since the sales are going and NVIDIA just slashed the price of the GTX 770 down to $320-330. That's right in the price-to-performance sweet spot at the time being. You should still have enough left over for an i5-4670K and a good Z87 board, especially if you live near a Micro Center store. (Their CPU/mobo combo deals beat out everyone else's by quite a bit, even factoring in local sales tax.)


----------



## muksuluuri

Go for the hyperthreaded cpu, be it Ivy or Hazzy. Many games take advantage of more than 4 threads already and the trend will only get more pronounced as we sail into 2014. 

I'm in the process of building a new rig as well. I opted for a SB-E 3930k as it's going for not much more than a 4770k, has 2 more physical cores and 4 more threads, doesn't sufffer from the "chewing gum under the HS"-itis and is known to overclock well, on average. It's been speculated on various forums that gaming on 6 cores with HT off could be the sweet spot for at least some titles; I'm interested in finding out about it myself.


----------



## widdyjudas

Kinda dilemma for me to go for i7 or i5 route... if I go i7, my budget will be more than 1500 usd. May I remind you that I'm living in HK/China, so newegg and tiger direct is out of option. Pc parts are more expensive here than in USA.
 its very stressful for itchy hand (want to go hi-end) like me
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I hope that my budget can still be 1500usd, stretching 100usd or eliminate ssd option 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Gpu I will go for gtx770 for sure with 8gb kingston hyperx, 16gb if possible...
 Mobo Z87 Asrock or asus?
 For Soundcard, I prefer for it to be less than 50usd, maybe even 30-40usd if possible, as long as it can do 7.1 and possibly with coax out?


----------



## tmaxx123

fegefeuer said:


> Yesterday I had the MMX 300 2013 Edition on my head for 2 hours L4D2 and half an hour MoH: WF and it's the most balanced "DT770" I ever listened to (I actually listened to all of them) the smoothest highs and a non bloated or overblown bass. Actually no overpowering bass at ALL so quite ready for competitive play.
> 
> Before the DT770 LE had the smoothest highs of all (to me) yet still with a hint of sibilance at times and the bass could sometimes be too much, still less than all other models. The MMX 300 is even better in that case as in only hitting hard when it needs to, generally more balanced along the spectrum. "Marina and the Diamonds - Shampain" is one of those tracks that exposes sibilance very very well and the MMX 300 actually passed it 100% to my surprise. The DT770 LE did not that well, the T90, Pro Ultrasones failed horribly. It has the biggest soundstage (more in width though) of all DT770s but also requires more power than the DT770 LE, TH-900.
> 
> ...


 
 Love my mmx's and you really hit it on the head with all of your points as to why it is such a great headset. My only gripe was the clamp force was a little to get used to, but that was cured once i got the gel ear pads. That's why I am skeptical to get the new Audio Technica headsets, because I am afraid they won't even compare to the Beyers....


----------



## tmaxx123

and as far as i know the 2012 mmx 300 was nothing more then a different color and different cable, so it is interesting to hear that the 2013 has some tweaks done to the housing and potentially the sound of the headset. I cant seem to find any info on it anywhere tho


----------



## muksuluuri

Quote: widdyjudas 





> Kinda dilemma for me to go for i7 or i5 route... if I go i7, my budget will be more than 1500 usd. May I remind you that I'm living in HK/China, so newegg and tiger direct is out of option. Pc parts are more expensive here than in USA.
> its very stressful for itchy hand (want to go hi-end) like me
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, components are well expensive here in Finland as well, China is still relatively better in this sense.
  
 Hey but how about this: Get a Haswell Xeon E3-1230v3; costwise it's similar to i5 when in fact it's the SAME cpu as as 4770 non-k, except with no igp and a touch lower stock-clocks. You still get 4 cores/8 threads AND you can save a ton by going with a cheaper motherboard (H81 and B85 boards can be had very cheaply in China). 4c/8t doesn't lose vs. overclocked 4670k on any games and beats it on those with support for more threads. Additional savings would come from not having to cough up for a heavy duty cpu-cooler, something like CoolerMaster Hyper Evo 212 is cheap in China and would be more than powerful enough and could be ran silently.
  
 For RAM, I wouldn't pick Kingston HyperX as they tend to require 1.65V to run at their specced speeds and that's not good for the cpu's memory-controller. Go for 1.5V rated RAM, 8GB for gaming but if you do photo-/video-editing then more is better, naturally.
  
 Edit: the aforementioned Xeon 1230v3 and the Ivy-generation 1230v2 are apparently very popular among Chinese gamers, "the power of i7 for the cost of i5" the slogan goes.


----------



## conquerator2

Just got the 900X guys.
 Out of the box, very, VERY impressive.
 It's all I hoped for actually, I just LOVE it.
OMG I am not sure I need the HE-6 now 0_0
 We'll see when the honeymoon is over, but... Awesome so far.
  
 EDIT: Rule no.1 - never say such things. It's the new toy syndrome. Gotta let it through its paces first :]


----------



## Fegefeuer

tmaxx123 said:


> and as far as i know the 2012 mmx 300 was nothing more then a different color and different cable, so it is interesting to hear that the 2013 has some tweaks done to the housing and potentially the sound of the headset. I cant seem to find any info on it anywhere tho


 
  
 I wrote with Beyerdynamic over Facebook about it. Anyway, I played a bit more of L4D2, it was nice to play for a good lengthy session again. I agree about the clamp, it's not as comfortable as the HD 800 or TH-900 unfortunately. Tonality-wise it's the perfect DT770 and I consider the DT770 LE already above all the other versions plus liking it more than DT880/DT990 as well as those are more sibilant. The DT770 line is very good already in terms of accuracy/imaging but the bass part often blew it together with sibilance. Not the case in the 2013 Edition. Changeable pads, 5 years of warranty. Verrry niiiiiice.


----------



## widdyjudas

muksuluuri said:


> Yeah, components are well expensive here in Finland as well, China is still relatively better in this sense.
> 
> Hey but how about this: Get a Haswell Xeon E3-1230v3; costwise it's similar to i5 when in fact it's the SAME cpu as as 4770 non-k, except with no igp and a touch lower stock-clocks. You still get 4 cores/8 threads AND you can save a ton by going with a cheaper motherboard (H81 and B85 boards can be had very cheaply in China). 4c/8t doesn't lose vs. overclocked 4670k on any games and beats it on those with support for more threads. Additional savings would come from not having to cough up for a heavy duty cpu-cooler, something like CoolerMaster Hyper Evo 212 is cheap in China and would be more than powerful enough and could be ran silently.
> 
> ...


 

 Xeon CPU, not thanks... I'll just go with I5, less trouble when I want to upgrade later. Yes, the evo 212 is the one I want to pair with the cpu. Any advice for a "good ram"?
 Your knowledge on Chinese is quite good, are you also an expat like me?
 I think Chinese people tends to use AMD cpu, since its cheaper...


----------



## muksuluuri

widdyjudas said:


> Xeon CPU, not thanks... I'll just go with I5, less trouble when I want to upgrade later. Yes, the evo 212 is the one I want to pair with the cpu. Any advice for a "good ram"?
> Your knowledge on Chinese is quite good, are you also an expat like me?
> I think Chinese people tends to use AMD cpu, since its cheaper...


 
  
 Which trouble are you referring to? That Xeon uses the same exact socket, same motherboards, same RAM... With double the threads compared to i5. Actually for Haswells, overclocking is of relatively little value since they intentionally used a very bad/cheap method of attaching the heatspreader, so unless you delid the the cpu the heat will get out of hand very quickly as you increase the vcore. I would choose 1230v3 over 4670k any day of the week for better "future-proofing" but it's your call. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For RAM, G.Skill RipJawsZ and RipJawsX as well as Corsair Vengeance -series have a variety of good, dependable RAM; don't pay over the odds for anything fancy, a solid 1.5V set at 1600MHz and CL9.0 is all you need; however if the price difference is minimal, going to 1866Mhz rated ones doesn't hurt (in case I manage to convince you to go for that Xeon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, choose 1600MHz with as tight timings as possible, as you will be running the RAM at 1600MHz anyway).


----------



## widdyjudas

muksuluuri said:


> Which trouble are you referring to? That Xeon uses the same exact socket, same motherboards, same RAM... With double the threads compared to i5. Actually for Haswells, overclocking is of relatively little value since they intentionally used a very bad/cheap method of attaching the heatspreader, so unless you delid the the cpu the heat will get out of hand very quickly as you increase the vcore. I would choose 1230v3 over 4670k any day of the week for better "future-proofing" but it's your call.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Xeon also use Z87 mobo? Sorry, don't really understand much for Xeon cpus... I dont even want to oc the cpu at first. I'll check the xeon later.
 Ram I choose kingston HyperX because its the cheapest option for 8gb. I think Gskill and corsair is more expensive, but not very much. I don't want any fancy ram, since the gain is very minimal according to benchmark. I don't really understand Ram timing, can you explain tight timing?
 Sorry MLE, hijacking your thread for pc consultation...
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I wonder if Chico agrees with the following K712 review and comparison:
http://www.head-fi.org/products/akg-k712-pro/reviews/9482


----------



## NamelessPFG

muksuluuri said:


> Actually for Haswells, overclocking is of relatively little value since they intentionally used a very bad/cheap method of attaching the heatspreader, so unless you delid the the cpu the heat will get out of hand very quickly as you increase the vcore. I would choose 1230v3 over 4670k any day of the week for better "future-proofing" but it's your call.


 
  
 Forget the high temps; when the chip lottery screws you over so hard that you need over 1.36Vcore and over 2.05VCCIN to maintain Prime95 stability at 4.4 GHz when many people can get away with significantly less for 4.6 GHz (maybe 1.3Vcore on the higher end), voltages above 1.4Vcore and 2.1VCCIN risk killing your chip, and you've got a custom water-cooling loop that can beat the heat, I'd say it's not the temps that are truly limiting a lot of Haswell overclocks as much as it is the required voltage!
  
 That said, do you think the extra threads with no physical cores to fully back them are going to pay off for future games? Right now, it's difficult to find games that make use of more than four threads, and they especially want fast single-threaded performance. They say Battlefield 4 is a sign of things to come, but I have yet to see any charts. I'm thinking that by the time games want more than four threads, they'll perform better on hex-cores or even octa-cores.
  
 I won't rule out exchanging my i5-4670K for an i7-4770K instead of another i5-4670K, though. This current sample's crap, not worth delidding. I need one that'll justify owning a custom water-cooling loop and mounting the block directly to the die, taking out the middleman, just like the Pentium III/Athlon days. Such a setup demands a chip that can hit 4.6-4.8 GHz on reasonable voltages.


----------



## kenshinhimura

can you continue the computer building in PM or separate thread? been going on too long now.


----------



## ethan7000

kenshinhimura said:


> can you continue the computer building in PM or separate thread? been going on too long now.



This could be a home for it:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/627598/pc-enthusiast-fi-pc-gaming-parts-overclocking


----------



## mpawluk91

Can somebody tell me if the earforce dss sounds the same as the dss2?

I read that the dss2 has worse surround sound. 

I like default settings so the added options of the dss2 wouldn't matter to me


----------



## muksuluuri

Is this 2013 model the first proper revision of MMX-300? I've been happy with my QH-1339, I'd say it verges on neutral whereas a vanilla DT770 I demoed sounded nothing alike, that one was so boomy I thought the set was defective; apparently, that's how it's supposed to sound. If the new MMX-300 improves from QH-1339 I doooo want to give it a whirl, although I don't really use the mic -excellent as it is- too often at all and having such an expensive headset, let alone 2, could be considered somewhat unnecessary. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 There will be a hifi expo here this coming weekend, sizeable discounts are forecast and I'm fully prepared to jump on a deal on HE-400 or HE-500.
  
 Nameless: Having more than 4 threads = better minimum FPS already in games like Crysis 3 and Battlefield 3 multiplayer, assuming you are not hugely bottlenecked by the GPU. I could post a graph but like the wise gentlemen so astutely put it, this is probably not the place. Apologies MLE!


----------



## Dukk

Why isn't the Siberia v2 in this thread?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Because MLE hasn't reviewed it yet, plain and simple.

If Crysis 3 already benefits from the extra threads, then Star Citizen will, and that's a very big reason for me to upgrade there.

Back to audio...now that I think about it, I could have bought a cheap gaming headset for under $40 just to send MLE for review. Deal's probably over now, though.


----------



## Duckface

MA 900 , AD700X , SR 850 . Still quite confused :/


----------



## Chubtoad

Annies


----------



## chicolom

mpawluk91 said:


> Can somebody tell me if the earforce dss sounds the same as the dss2?
> 
> I read that the dss2 has worse surround sound.
> 
> I like default settings so the added options of the dss2 wouldn't matter to me


 
  
 They use two different surround sound DSPs, so I'd say NO they don't sound the same.
  
 The original DSS uses Dolby Heapdhone, while the DSS2 uses a surround DSP by Cirrus logic.  There aren't many impressions on how the latter sounds.


----------



## benbenkr

The DSS2 sounds a lot less immersive than the DSS, but in some cases do actually provide better positional accuracy. Other than that, it also has slightly less hiss, has a little bit more power on the headphone out and some preset EQs instead of an adjustable bass boost like the original DSS.
  
 The virtual surround speaker placements are gimmicky and they don't really make a huge difference from one preset to another. It really does depend on how the game is mixed however.
  
 There are 6 different presets:
  

  
 Pre 1) The standard angle and the one that to me sounds closest to DH, but considerably less immersive and in many cases worse positional accuracy.
 Pre 2) Supposedly the most "balanced" preset, but I honestly hear very little difference between this and the standard preset 1. Slightly better rear positional accuracy maybe, but not by much and certainly would depend on the game instead.
 Pre 3) Rear audio sounds a little more lively, but despite how the diagram shows, using this preset robs the front audio too much for no reason what so ever.
  
 Pre 4) Sounds exactly the same as preset 2, don't know what is the point of having this preset here.
 Pre 5) Again sounding almost exactly like preset 2, difference is way too minute for games on consoles to tell a difference.
 Pre 6) Very similar to preset 3, but a wider soundstage with a little bit too much reverb. The front cues are still pretty dead though.
  
 I know many people has asked about how come there are only 4 speakers and not 5. There were a lot of confusion before too that the DSS2 is actually a 4.1 processor and isn't a 5.1. The center speaker is THERE, but rather hollow sounding. I did a few SFX test where the sound would sweep in 360 degree variation and I can definitely hear the center virtual speaker placement, it just isn't as intimate as how DH does it.
  
 No idea why TurtleBeach didn't include the center speaker in their diagrams, but I think it is down to because the center speaker doesn't change position regardless of the preset anyways so it is redundant to have it there.
  
 Finally, DSS or DSS2?
 IMO, definitely the DSS. It's already not in production but since there are still quite a few units on ebay going for $25, I don't see a better processor that provides DH at this price, of which would work with consoles and PCs. The DSS2 simply isn't worth the money.


----------



## AxelCloris

Holy cow, as and ye shall receive. Kickstarter for the 7th Guest 3. It's going to be a LONG wait for October 2015.


----------



## conquerator2

A900X with Hifiman Velour pads - comfort +++ , they don't slide at all, like with the small stocks.


----------



## mpawluk91

benbenkr said:


> The DSS2 sounds a lot less immersive than the DSS, but in some cases do actually provide better positional accuracy. Other than that, it also has slightly less hiss, has a little bit more power on the headphone out and some preset EQs instead of an adjustable bass boost like the original DSS.
> 
> The virtual surround speaker placements are gimmicky and they don't really make a huge difference from one preset to another. It really does depend on how the game is mixed however.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the informative reply. Greatly appreciated sir!

I went ahead and ordered a dss from amazon for 45$ new (I actually found a new one !) and I also ordered a pretty nice interconnect to go between the dss and my arrow 4g, it should sound pretty nice because I have a pure copper cryo headphone cable for my Logitech UE6000

Here is the interconnect I ordered 

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=261256551568


----------



## Orion1991

evshrug said:


> Haven't forgotten about you... Guess I gotta apologize, I was torn between making this (and figuring out how to prop up my phone to use as camera/mic) and playing Batman... Batman kinda won out, good news is I got stuck on a Riddler challenge last night


 
  
  
 haha fair enough  thanks a lot man, and take your time.


----------



## designbykai

Fidelio L2 are getting good reviews. Headfonia one I will take with a grain of salt though. Never too sure about their reviews. Let's hope the x2 is also an even more improved driver when they inevitably announce that, as that's what I'd be more interested in that a weird niche semi-open on-ear pair like the l2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like I have lost my KSC35 god knows where. This hurts my soul. (I use my KSC35 basically my entire shift at work...and when I'm on the phone at home, etc. It is completely indispensable...)

wje has my KSC75 which has been gutted for parts to use for my broken PX100-II, which he seems to have working with the KSC75's clips in the PX100-ii's own driver housing (bonding the KSC75's clips to the PX100-II housing itself), so eventually, I may have a frankenstein PX100-II with KSC75 clips. Hopefully this will be my work headphone.

Guess I'll be taking the MA900 to work in the meantime. I really miss my KSC35...


----------



## Evshrug

^at least it's cheap!
Thanks for popping back in.


----------



## SaLX

MLE: Check the comments on this Audio Technica vid. 


> ES: They look great! AudioTechnicaAus: Are you maybe going to send the pair to Mad Lust Envy over at Head-Fi for a try out? He loved the AD700's﻿ way back.​
> ATA: Get him to message us on Facebook


 
  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlO2NDYHKZk&lc=rYDXAzuHlxTZtPAXnWNl84xueXHutKwHj4f-m34MPGA&lch=email_reply&feature=em-comment_reply_received


----------



## chicolom

*Change*, I noticed you removed the iCan from your profile.  I take it you preferred the Asgard 2 over it with the Mad Dogs? 
  
 I already expected the Asgard to be a tad better than the iCan _without _the switches (since the M-stage is already a tad better that way), but I'd be curious on impressions as to how Asgard Vs. M-stage compared.  Those two are more similar amps and more of a direct competition with each other than the iCan.


----------



## Change is Good

I removed it from my profile but haven't made a definite decision, yet, because I want to A/B/C all of them before doing so.
  
 From memory, however, I do think the AG2 is better than the iCAN on default. It has a very nice soundstage, though not as big as the M-Stage, and plenty of body and impact. I would say the AG2 is like the M-Stage on steroids... I think? lol. It definitely has more kick... so I just use it on low gain most of the time. I only needed to use high gain when I was using it with the MDs... which I just sold.
  
 In summary I would say the AG2 is a tad bit warmer than the M-Stage.., while the M-Stage has a slightly wider soundstage.
  
 I have some detailed notes that I'll be posting towards the end of the week... after I take my algebra exam on Thursday. So far I'm impressed...


----------



## pervysage

Anyone have any solutions to getting rid of static noise on the Astro Mixamp 2013?
  
 As far as I know, the noise is always there but not noticeable until you have the volume pot around 11 o'clock position.
  
 The Fiio E9K did a better job of hiding this static. The Woo WA7 makes the static pretty obvious, especially when there is no sound playing.
  
 Also, I found that that when I move my computer mouse, there is a tiny squealing noise and as soon as I stop moving the mouse it goes away. Originally, I thought this was due to the fact that the Mixamp is being powered by my computer's USB port. But when I tried powering the Mixamp with my Xbox or even the USB port on my DVR cable box, I could still hear feedback from my computer mouse. Basically I can have no connections going from my PC to the Mixamp and it will still receive feedback from my computer mouse, lol.
  
 I was thinking of using just a random USB AC adapter for a phone or something to power the Mixamp but have my doubts if that would solve the problem. Don't have one lying around at the moment.
  
 Just some more information about the static: adjusting the volume on the mixamp does not change the static sound, it stays the same and is always there. I noticed that if I remove the optical cable from the Mixamp (which comes from my Xbox) the static will go away for a couple of seconds but then it will immediately return (even when the optical is kept out) which is really weird.


----------



## SoConfused

Hi. I have researched the thread to find answers to my questions, but just needed someone's confirmation--so i apologize for my ignorance.  Anyways.. I would like to purchase Annies and be able to hook them up to a PS4.  Will this be the correct setup?
  
 Connect PS4 with an Optical cord to my Mix Amp Pro
 Connect mix amp to controller
 Connect mix amp to a 3 pole y adapter
      Connect 3 pole y adapter to a mod mic
      Connect 3 pole y adapter to a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable
              Connect 3.5mm-to-RCA cable to a Magni Headphone Amplifier
              Connect Magni Headphone Amplifier to annies
  
 Am I missing anything?  Or doing a disservice to the Annies anywhere>
  
 Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

soconfused said:


> Hi. I have researched the thread to find answers to my questions, but just needed someone's confirmation--so i apologize for my ignorance.  Anyways.. I would like to purchase Annies and be able to hook them up to a PS4.  Will this be the correct setup?
> Connect PS4 with an Optical cord to my Mix Amp Pro
> Connect mix amp to controller
> Connect mix amp to a 3 pole y adapter
> ...


 
 I would assume you connect the PS4 to the Astro mix-amp using optical.
 Connect the Mix-amp's headphone output to the line-input on the Magni, using a 3.5mm male to male cable.
 Plug Annies into Magni's headphone port.


----------



## Chubtoad

pervysage said:


> Anyone have any solutions to getting rid of static noise on the Astro Mixamp 2013?
> 
> As far as I know, the noise is always there but not noticeable until you have the volume pot around 11 o'clock position.
> 
> ...


 
 I had the exact same issues as you with regards to mouse noise. It's from a mixture of CPU/GPU/general EMI/RF interference, I had it regardless of whether or not I had my headphones/amp plugged into my PC or not. (my consoles/PC share the same area.)
  
 Buy one of these - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10844&cs_id=1084402&p_id=6909&seq=1&format=2
  
 I have been using one of these for months now and it eliminates all forms of PC related noise, however the mixamp hiss is still there, I think that's just a fault of the mixamp itself and you can't really do anything about it.
  
 To give you an example, I have an Asgard 2 amp with the AKG K702 Anniversaries, while connected to my PC I can crank the volume to maximum on either low gain or high gain and hear absolutely nothing, complete silence.
  
 Depending on who you ask, some people might say a ground isolator can cause sound degradation but I noticed no difference in sound before or after using this. Before getting one of these the noises would drive me nuts that my mouse would make.
  
 *edit* NM


----------



## rage3324

I want to use my personal headphones (Audio-Technica) with my PS4, however I am not clear on how I would connect them and still be able to use a mic for voice chat.On the PS3, I hook up my headphones to my receiver and use a USB adapter (which plugs into the ps3) to plug my mic into. How would I achieve this on the PS4?
  
 My setup
  
 PS4->Receiver->TV


----------



## clawyer27

I apologize if this has been asked on here before, but what is the difference between AD-700 and AD-700x?  Is it better to step up to the 900x now?  
  
 I have used the AD-700's for about three years and love that you can hear everything and can very accurately pinpoint what direction it came from.  Are the new x version the same?
  
 Cheaper Skullcandy SLYR- how are they with positioning? soundstage? (I know they are closed so it will be a little different, but how much?)


----------



## chicolom

clawyer27 said:


> I apologize if this has been asked on here before, but what is the difference between AD-700 and AD-700x?  Is it better to step up to the 900x now?
> 
> I have used the AD-700's for about three years and love that you can hear everything and can very accurately pinpoint what direction it came from.  Are the new x version the same?
> 
> Cheaper Skullcandy SLYR- how are they with positioning? soundstage? (I know they are closed so it will be a little different, but how much?)


 
  
 The _X_ supposedly has a new driver.  I imagine it will sound pretty similar, though I've read the AD900X has more bass than the AD900, which is a good thing.
  
 Keep in mind that the AD900(x) doesn't have any better positioning than the AD700.


----------



## AxelCloris

This week's Humble Bundle is awesome. Arkham Asylum GOTY and Arkham City GOTY with Scribblenauts, F.E.A.R. 2, F.E.A.R. 3, and Lord of the Rings: War in the North. Donate at least $5 to unlock all of these titles. A portion of the proceeds, up to 100%, go to charity. Buy this bundle, PC gamers.
  
 I'm going to be buying a couple bundles myself and giving out Steam codes in various places around Head-Fi. The first will be this thread sometime later today.


----------



## Evshrug

^that is an awesome game bundle, if I didn't already own most of them.

I'm... Not sure where my M-100 are. I tried to do the video yesterday about how loud different headphones leak.


----------



## pervysage

chubtoad said:


> I had the exact same issues as you with regards to mouse noise. It's from a mixture of CPU/GPU/general EMI/RF interference, I had it regardless of whether or not I had my headphones/amp plugged into my PC or not. (my consoles/PC share the same area.)
> 
> Buy one of these - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10844&cs_id=1084402&p_id=6909&seq=1&format=2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm.. that Monoprice device looks interesting and might do the trick. So would that hook up between the Mixamp and headphone amp? So... Mixamp (3.5mm to RCA) -> Ground Isolator -> Headphone amp?


----------



## AxelCloris

Oh hey, lookie here. Is that Arkham City I spy? I think it might be. First to claim gets it. More to follow.
  
 https://www.humblebundle.com/gift?key=wSFvkb4ZBxSEz8Pb


----------



## chicolom

pervysage said:


> I was thinking of using just a random USB AC adapter for a phone or something to power the Mixamp but have my doubts if that would solve the problem. Don't have one lying around at the moment.


 
  
 I plug my DSS directly into a wall outlet for power.  That seems to have the lowest amount of interference/noise.  When I had it plugged into my computers USB hub I got a hummy ground loop when I double amped it.


----------



## benbenkr

rage3324 said:


> I want to use my personal headphones (Audio-Technica) with my PS4, however I am not clear on how I would connect them and still be able to use a mic for voice chat.On the PS3, I hook up my headphones to my receiver and use a USB adapter (which plugs into the ps3) to plug my mic into. How would I achieve this on the PS4?
> 
> My setup
> 
> PS4->Receiver->TV


 
  
 Unfortunately, no one knows how mic functions will work with the PS4 yet because it is different from the PS3. Eventhough Sony has said USB headsets will theoretically work, it isn't a 100% certainty.

 All PS4s will come with a mono earphone though which includes a mic, connects to the DS4. If there is a function to output all chat voices to the game voices (like you can now with the PS3), then the issue is solved. You could just continue using the PS4 > Receiver > TV, then just hang the mono earphone on your shirt or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I apparently left my KSC35 at work over my two days off. So glad I didn't lose it.


----------



## fetch

Here's my problem;
  
 I've literally been searching for the right headset for ages now (I refuse to buy something until I know for sure its the right call.) I could easily pick out a headset..but It needs to work for xbox as well, the chat is most important since I'm a very competitive player on xbox, less on pc. I only found out you can use most headsets on xbox very recently, but the amp and clip on mic and all this stuff is just terribly confusing me. I need to know exactly what I need to purchase, but I cant do that on my own, I need an experts help :> So that being said, here's my list!
  
 - Around 200~, preferably under, ofc I can stretch over! (this includes and amps or mics as well!)
 - Over ear!
 - Noise-cancelling microphone, but not needed at all.
 - Good quality, I don't know how to go into detail with this, just the build/sound quality needs to be the best for the price I'm paying. _Sound quality is most important, as in pinpointing footsteps in cod, or just kickin' back listening to music or watching a tv show._
  
 Think you could lend a fellow newbie a hand? I'd be ever so grateful!


----------



## SoConfused

So my annies arrive tomorrow, but my asgard 2 will not be in for a week. Can I still try the Annie's out on my mixamp?


----------



## xero404

axelcloris said:


> Oh hey, lookie here. Is that Arkham City I spy? I think it might be. First to claim gets it. More to follow.
> 
> https://www.humblebundle.com/gift?key=wSFvkb4ZBxSEz8Pb


 
 i took it. Finished arkham asylum and this would be a great game to do on the side of all the dota playing lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

soconfused said:


> So my annies arrive tomorrow, but my asgard 2 will not be in for a week. Can I still try the Annie's out on my mixamp?




Of course you can. The Annie is sensitive enough to at least play loudly off the Mixamp alone, albeit less refined. I used my Q701 off the Mixamp alone more often than not, and only attached an amp when I used voice chat.


----------



## Hot0m

Has anyone tried that Audio-Technica ATH-770COM Stereo Headset for gaming? I just did a search but nothing came up. It's up on Amazon for only $72.99 with FSSS.


----------



## rage3324

benbenkr said:


> Unfortunately, no one knows how mic functions will work with the PS4 yet because it is different from the PS3. Eventhough Sony has said USB headsets will theoretically work, it isn't a 100% certainty.
> 
> All PS4s will come with a mono earphone though which includes a mic, connects to the DS4. If there is a function to output all chat voices to the game voices (like you can now with the PS3), then the issue is solved. You could just continue using the PS4 > Receiver > TV, then just hang the mono earphone on your shirt or something.


 
 Thanks for the info!


----------



## FightCat

Hello,
  
 First of all, I have to thank for the comprehensive guide on the headset reviews. The reviews and scores are very easy to follow while being detailed enough.
  
 I have decided on getting *AKG 702 65th*, *Beyerdynamic DT990*, *Philips Fidelio X1* or a *Sony MDR-MA900* for starters.
  
 Easy questions here (I presume ^^)
  
 1- Which of the cans above can be drived without an amp ?
  
 2- I have found a second hand AKG 702 here in Turkey however it's not a 65th ann. edition. What should I expect to be lower/worse with that headset compared to 65th ann. edition?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Without an amp? The MA900 and the X1.

The standard K702 will be inefficient compared to the Annie, due to less density in the pads, allowing less sound to reach your ears.

The K702 (all of them), and the 990s need some good amps to bring the best out of them. The other two don't require much, and adding power is more for eeking out the last bit of performance and smoothening out the rough edges, not a pure requirement. A portable amp would work well with both X1 and MA900.

Your choice comes down to whether you want more bass, or more balance. I've mentioned how each sounds in the review, so I won't repeat myself.


----------



## Kain96z

What amp did you use/recommend for the Q701's and what mix amp did you use/recommend? I need to use voice chat often when I play.
  
 I play xbox 360/ps3 (soon to bee the new console) with a set of Q701s directly from my astro mixamp pro but I find the sound is lacking in power. In all my research I kinda missed the point that the Q701s needed an amp to get everything out of them. I now run them threw my yamaha receiver with their "silent cinema" headphone technology. Its great for movies but know i'm losing positional audio for gaming. Tried this with and without the mix amp and same thing. I get more power and sound quality from my Q701s but lose positional audio. Should I just give up and get some ad700/ad700x's or maybe the MA900's? I really do love my AKG's and want to make them work with my setup.


----------



## FightCat

mad lust envy said:


> Without an amp? The MA900 and the X1.
> 
> The standard K702 will be inefficient compared to the Annie, due to less density in the pads, allowing less sound to reach your ears.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, that completely changes plans.
  
 The non-amp-essential headsets are not available in Turkey -I have get them over e-bay etc.
  
 I love bass and I also would like to be able to distinguish surround details in games. While being incredibly light-weight, this, on the other hand, pops as an indurability issue for Sony MDR-MA900, I guess?
  
 By the way, from what I've seen, X1's do not allow their pads to be replaced, how about MA900's in that regard?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Change is Good

fightcat said:


> Wow, that completely changes plans.
> 
> The non-amp-essential headsets are not available in Turkey -I have get them over e-bay etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 M900 pads can be replaced; which has me thinking how the 1540 pads would alter their sound...


----------



## LoveKnight

@Change is Good
  
 Could you please do a comparison among Shure SRH 1540, Mad Dog 3.2 and the Sony MA900 please. I want to buy a new headphone to replace my HD598 and I am confused of choosing which can. I would like to add an Alpha Dog in consideration too but the long list 6 weeks and few more weeks of waiting to ship to my country really turn me down, additionally Alpha Dogs require poweful ampss but I only have a C421 and do not want to upgrade my amp yet, moreover I want to stay as portable as possible because I work, sleep, listen to music in every place in my house.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## jtsanabria

I'm currently building a PC (using some Black Friday deals and building a monster for ~$1500). I'm also in the process of grabbing a pair of AKG K712 Pros for myself as an end of the year gift to accompany the PC build. However, I'm looking for a solid amp/soundcard combo (other combos welcome) to give the 712s their full potential. I've heard a couple different ideas, but wanted to look for more. I'd like to keep whatever set up I get below $450, but I'm flexible depending on the quality/price within different options.


----------



## OreoChocolate

Hi I'm a new member

 I am not really an audiophile but I want to buy a good pair of headphones or speakers more of an all around purpose + playing games. Aesthetics is very important factor for me when buying. Current options that have really caught my attention respectively are the following beryedynamic dt 990, akg k712, and audioengine a5+. Beryedynamic dt 990 people around you can hear some sounds and you can also hear sounds coming from them base on the reviews that's quite bothering for me. Akg k712 I haven't seen a video review but is it similar to the beryedynamic?For amps how do you choose or know that it is suitable?


----------



## chicolom

kain96z said:


> What amp did you use/recommend for the Q701's and what mix amp did you use/recommend? I need to use voice chat often when I play.
> 
> I play xbox 360/ps3 (soon to bee the new console) with a set of Q701s directly from my astro mixamp pro but I find the sound is lacking in power. In all my research I kinda missed the point that the Q701s needed an amp to get everything out of them. I now run them threw my yamaha receiver with their "silent cinema" headphone technology. Its great for movies but know i'm losing positional audio for gaming. Tried this with and without the mix amp and same thing. I get more power and sound quality from my Q701s but lose positional audio. Should I just give up and get some ad700/ad700x's or maybe the MA900's? I really do love my AKG's and want to make them work with my setup.


 
  
 Surely you can run it like: mixamp > reciever (analog inputs) > Q701. 
  
 Just use your receiver to double amp the mixamp for the headphones.


----------



## chicolom

oreochocolate said:


> Beryedynamic dt 990 people around you can hear some sounds and you can also hear sounds coming from them base on the reviews that's quite bothering for me. Akg k712 I haven't seen a video review but is it similar to the beryedynamic?


 
  
 Yes, K712s do this too.
  
 All open headphones leak sound and have poor isolation.  That's why they're _open._


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So... the reason I'm dropping out of the headphone game is because I'm gonna be paying for something for the next 2 years..., something I use a LOT more than headphones...



(image taken off google)

One of the very last two TOTL Panasonic plasmas HDTVs (they're no longer making any more plasmas after next month). The 60VT60.

I have been TV-less for a few months now, and while I wasn't ready to buy a TV just yet, I had no choice, since LED TVs are utterly inferior to plasmas, and with Panasonic's departure... only Samsung and LG are left, which are rumored to cease plasma production next year. I had to buy the last great Plasma before it went the way of the CRT.

Bestbuy has 2 years no interest, so I can take my sweet time paying it off...

With my shift towards that, I will probably only support the TV with a set of speakers or a soundbar in the later future, since I haven't been using my headphones lately, instead just using the built in TV speakers.


----------



## OreoChocolate

​


chicolom said:


> Yes, K712s do this too.
> 
> All open headphones leak sound and have poor isolation.  That's why they're _open._



Alternatives for the astro mixamp, I will have a hard time looking for it locally?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> They're no longer making any more plasmas after next month


 
  
 Yeah, the slow death of plasma TVs is increasingly painful for me. I wish when I worked at Magnolia that I had the pay to afford the Pioneer Elite that we sold. I did get the top of the line Panasonic back then and it's still treating me well. Hopefully it'll last me into the coming of the affordable OLED displays. LCD still isn't up to snuff for me. We have one in the bedroom and it's nowhere near as natural in color as the plasma. And gaming on an LCD? Ha. No thanks.


----------



## Chubtoad

Just wondering if there is anywhere official to buy replacement pads for the annies? like is there an official AKG store or am I stuck finding second hand ones?


----------



## chicolom

That's a shame that plasmas are dieing off. 
  
 I've almost bought one last time I went through a TV upgrade, but I couldn't find any under 50" that were _also _1080p.  Now I see Panasonic finally came out with a 42" S60 with 1080p which would have worked, but it's too late as they're all gone now.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> With my shift towards that, I will probably only support the TV with a set of speakers or a soundbar in the later future, since* I haven't been using my headphones lately, instead just using the built in TV speakers.*


 
  
 Yuck.
  
 I won't play an immersive single player game on TV speakers as I'm losing half the experience.  It's like playing a game at SD resolution.  I'll wait until I can play it on surround + headphones.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> LCD still isn't up to snuff for me. We have one in the bedroom and it's nowhere near as natural in color as the plasma. And gaming on an LCD? Ha. No thanks.


 
  
 My LCD is pretty good.  I did research and got a fat one that doesn't use edge lighting so at least it has a more uniform black without flashlighting. 
  
 Stil, LCD tech has a host of problems with motion and uniformity & black levels (both issues thanks to the backlighting).
  
  
 Hopefully the next best tech (still OLED?) will start getting it's act together.
  


oreochocolate said:


> Alternatives for the astro mixamp, I will have a hard time looking for it locally?


 
  
  
 They're on the front page.
  


chubtoad said:


> Just wondering if there is anywhere official to buy replacement pads for the annies? like is there an official AKG store or am I stuck finding second hand ones?


 
  
 Yes, you order them from AKG spare parts department.
*Spare parts*
 Frank Rodriguez frodrigu@harman.com 
 Phone:  +1 818 920-3279


----------



## Chubtoad

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Stil, LCD tech has a host of problems with motion and uniformity & black levels (both issues thanks to the backlighting).




I had actually bought the Samsung F6300 LED set (I wanted a lighter, smaller set than the ST30 I sold), and brought it home. If you turn on the blur reduction to 10 (with judder at 0), you get motion that actually equals what plasmas do. The problem is, it introduces SO MUCH FRIGGIN input lag, that games are absolutely unplayable with those processings turned on. Once you turn on Game Mode, the input lag is VERY good, but then motion looks like absolute crap. the bland image quality was a turn off, so I ended up returning it two days later.

So I decided to look at the state of plasmas, and noticed that Panasonic was bowing out earlier than anticipated, so it pushed me to take the plunge before they were out of stock everywhere. I had nothing but a great experience with the ST30, I knew the Vt60 was the way to go. I would've bought the S60, but the lack of proper true 1080p/24 playback was a dealbreaker for me. Then I saw the ST60 which looked like the sweet spot for price and performance, but then I saw the atrocious input lag numbers, and it turned me off. The next one up was the VT60 which was comparable to their flagship in PQ, and had good input lag numbers (I don't notice the lag when in Game Mode).

With plasmas, you never have to worry about motion blur being atrocious. The VT60 is good without any extra processing, and perfect with just simple nudge of smoothing. The VT60 has a weak smoothing option, that enhances motion resolution to max, and doesn't add noticeable smoothing, until you set it to middle, or strong. Needless to say, I went to the Magnolia section, and ordered on the spot (helps that at the time of purchase, Best Buy had the best price, even compared to Amazon.)

I can't stand the glow of the blacks LEDs have, and their terrible off angle black level performance. Plasmas are so much better in this. The VT60 has amaaaaaazing blacks. Actually the Vt60 and ZT60 are the only two TVs to ever beat the Kuros TVs. I guess Panasonic's plasma division went out with a bang. The ONLY display to beat the VT60 and ZT60 in blacks is the Pioneer KRP-500m MONITOR. HDTV-wise, the VT60 and ZT60 are where it's at, with the ZT60 being a smidge better in bright rooms, and both being equal in light controlled rooms. Considering how well the VT60 does in bright rooms already, I don't see a reason to own the ZT60. It has inferior built in speakers, a lack of camera, and costs a hefty premium... you get less for more money.

The VT60 and ZT60 are probably gonna reign supreme until OLEDs start becoming affordable. Unless Samsung's last possible plasmas beat the VT and ZT60, nothing will stack up until OLED. LG has never been a true contender in plasmas (or any display type).


----------



## chicolom

I see there a still a few straggler 42" S60s at Sears for "local" pickup.  I see some "new-in-box" ones for ~$350, which I would totally jump on if they're as good as the reviews.  The S60 is supposed to have lower input lag than the S_T_60, and the main picture quality con is that it sucks for daylight viewing (no anti-glare), but I do all my serious viewing at night so I wouldn't care.
  
 Sucks that it's only local pick-up.  The closest one is 4 hours away. 
  
 Hmm...


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> LG has never been a true contender in plasmas *(or any display type).*


 
 A lot of the Korean 2560x1440 IPS displays use LG panels. LG panels are also used in some of the better Asus and Dell monitors.


----------



## AxelCloris

Arkham Asylum GOTY. Free for one to claim!
  
 https://www.humblebundle.com/gift?key=EfSd4hw5CwAkYdrk


----------



## conquerator2

I have a Sony HX-800 Edge LED, with a deep black panel.
Gotta say it compares quite well with my Panasonic plasma...
Not to mention plasmas start to hurt my eyes after some time x/


----------



## Change is Good

loveknight said:


> @Change is Good
> 
> Could you please do a comparison among Shure SRH 1540, Mad Dog 3.2 and the Sony MA900 please. I want to buy a new headphone to replace my HD598 and I am confused of choosing which can. I would like to add an Alpha Dog in consideration too but the long list 6 weeks and few more weeks of waiting to ship to my country really turn me down, additionally Alpha Dogs require poweful ampss but I only have a C421 and do not want to upgrade my amp yet, moreover I want to stay as portable as possible because I work, sleep, listen to music in every place in my house.
> 
> Thanks.


 
  
 I only had the MA900 for a couple days on loan, so a comparison would not be accurate at all.
  
 I will post thorough details between the 1540 and MD as soon as I get a chance. I just had a college algebra exam I had to prepare for and another biology exam on Monday. Also, I am behind on preparing my speech that is also due next week. Then there's finals coming up... so please be patient, my friend...
  
 It won't be an A/B comparison, however, because I sold the MDs to help fund the 1540. Which, I may add, was worth every penny to me... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 For now, I can say the 1540 extends much lower than the MD and has a slightly wider soundstage. It's midrange and treble, though not recessed, is more linear but isn't overshadowed by the bass. Man... that bass, though! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




! It's like a refined X1 kind of bass that can be played at high volumes... with no recession in the midrange at all (which was my only complaint of the X1).
  
 I agree with *gelocks' *perception in the 1540 thread that these are a technically superior SRH840 with a boosted low end.


----------



## ethan7000

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, the slow death of plasma TVs is increasingly painful for me. I wish when I worked at Magnolia that I had the pay to afford the Pioneer Elite that we sold. I did get the top of the line Panasonic back then and it's still treating me well. Hopefully it'll last me into the coming of the affordable OLED displays. LCD still isn't up to snuff for me. We have one in the bedroom and it's nowhere near as natural in color as the plasma. And gaming on an LCD? Ha. No thanks.



I'm still in love with my Pioneer plasma


----------



## AxelCloris

ethan7000 said:


> I'm still in love with my Pioneer plasma


 
  
 I'd probably be in love with yours as well.


----------



## davisman

I cant wait for the 1540 impressions, I am very interested in these. How easy are they to drive?


----------



## Evshrug

orion1991 said:


> I am still hoping you make this video and haven't forgot about me




Posted the video.
How much sound does a headphone leak, and a demo comparing between different styles (open/closed/etc) of headphones:

[Video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53t_8UrB9xg[/Video]


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> I'd probably be in love with yours as well.



Panasonic bought Pioneer's tech, and I can attest that the two Plasmas I've watched extensively (mine & the 50" one I convinced my girlfriend's family would be their best bang-for-buck choice) are very impressive and really "pop" more than LCD/LED TV's I've seen... with crisper motion as well. Seriously, I wish Plasma had caught on and someone had made a 27" 1080p Plasma gaming monitor with DisplayPort (to take advantage of the super high refresh rate), that would've kicked serious butt!

Some (expensive) LED tech is starting to close the gap, but I'd still recommend tracking down a Panasonic plasma before they become unavailable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LED will always have the problem of viewing angles washing out the blacks, especially the edge lit models. Edge lit led is a misrepresentation of led. Its still the same tech as lcd, just with led instead of fluorescent bulbs. Real leds are the backlit variety with local dimming zones, which at least preserve blacks a little better due to turning off the leds if there is a black signal being sent to it, though you have light bloom wherever leds are used next to zones that are off.

You can tell which ones of the expensive led models are backlight, because they're a bit chunkier than edge lit.

As for when I said LG never competes with Panny and Sammy, I meant in terms of plasmas. As far as LED/LCD, it's always been a competition between Sony and Samsung. Sharp uses their horrible subpixels that make their displays look pentile. Funnily enough, Samsung uses Sharp's subpixel displays for their 60 inch mid tier plasmas, but not their 51 and 64 inchers. The difference is obvious, as pentile looking displays look jagged, like a chunk of information on screen is missing.

I'm not much into monitors, but the one I had for a month or so was an HP 27xi, which had an incredible 10ms input lag, which is almost unheard of for an IPS display. I just didn't like it's incredibly limited picture tweaking options, and could never get the blacks to go down to a decent level without makijg everything super dim (my brightness was at 0).


----------



## chicolom

Last time I checked Samsung and Sony both sourced their S-PVA panels from the S-LCD company. 
  
 Samsung is also notorious for having a panel lottery.  My TV uses no less than 4 different types of panels in the same model.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. I had the same problem with my last LCD, the Samsung B750. There were I believe two different panels for that TV, one with horrible viewing angles, and one with stellar picture fidelity.

If you're going led/lcd, you basically have to go with their high end models to ensure you get something good. My F6300 that I just returned was probably a badpanel. Even dead on, it just looked washed out and blurry.

If ever something happens to my VT60 (god forbid), I guess I better hunt for a local dimming, backlit Sony display, unless OLEDs become feasible for the domestic market.


----------



## chicolom

Yeah, fortunately I was able to find out the code for determining the panel on mine so I was able to nab a 1st party S-PVA panel. 
 http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406151/the-official-2012-samsung-eh4000-eh5000-eh5300-owners-thread/240#post_22332784


----------



## SaLX

Er.. MLE,
  
 A ****-tonne of people have been referred to this thread in their search for a good set of gaming cans. Thank you loads mate. This is the No.1 place to go to for reviews of the current best gaming headsets and headphones. There is nothing else on the internet like it. Don't let this slide please.
  
 You're onto a good thing here; so right now _do not quit_. Hopefully some manufacturer's will send you their sample's for testing_. _And I bet you've punted a lot of custom their way over the last few years.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks. Unfortunately, asides from a few loaners and freebies, almost all headphones reviewed came out of my pocket. For someone who makes barely above minimum wage, there is no benefit towards my finances if I continued doing this all out of my pocket. This is why you will see very little in the way of reviews coming in the foreseeable future. I can't even afford to pay to ship things back after reviews, since I have a lot of things I need to pay off.

Had I not been in my position, I'd have bought the K712 and SRH1540 by now.


----------



## Kain96z

I can and I've tried. Its the silent cinema headphone technology thats messing with my sound mix. It amps the signal and changes the mix no matter how I hook it up. I can't turn it off. It automatically turns on when you plug in headphones. I guess I just prefer dolby headphone to game with my Q701s.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> LED will always have the problem of viewing angles washing out the blacks, especially the edge lit models. Edge lit led is a misrepresentation of led. Its still the same tech as lcd, just with led instead of fluorescent bulbs. *Real leds are the backlit variety with local dimming zones*, which at least preserve blacks a little better due to turning off the leds if there is a black signal being sent to it, though you have light bloom wherever leds are used next to zones that are off.
> 
> You can tell which ones of the expensive led models are backlight, because they're a bit chunkier than edge lit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I thought real LED displays were the ones with NO backlights because the pixels are MADE of LEDs instead of an LCD matrix. Natural local dimming!
  
 That, of course, limits things to OLED/QLED panels that don't have much presence in the market yet...maybe one day, we'll have awesome 120 Hz OLED panels with >=2560x1440 resolution and NVIDIA G-SYNC, among other things.
  
 In the meantime, though, I guess I gotta settle for a 1080p LCD like this if the FW900 bites the dust.
  
 Unfortunately, the HDTV market is full of crap that's undesirable for gaming (like post-processing with lots of added input lag and advertising 120 Hz displays that don't actually have 120 Hz video inputs, making the feature *useless*), and the ones that meet my standards are...well above my family's budget, to say the least. If you think Head-Fi makes your wallet feel inadequate, then just wait 'til you visit the AVS Forum...
  
 We could also use a new one, because our decade-old Hitachi 43FWX20B is having convergence problems. Yes, our primary living room HDTV is a rear-projection CRT set that doesn't even have HDMI ports. I have an idea on how to fix it, but it'll require a couple of ICs, some soldering work, and some improved cooling to make sure the replacements don't overheat.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, asides from a few loaners and freebies, almost all headphones reviewed came out of my pocket. For someone who makes barely above minimum wage, there is no benefit towards my finances if I continued doing this all out of my pocket. This is why you will see very little in the way of reviews coming in the foreseeable future. I can't even afford to pay to ship things back after reviews, since I have a lot of things I need to pay off.
> 
> Had I not been in my position, I'd have bought the K712 and SRH1540 by now.


 
  
 I'm sure you also would've taken up my SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 loaner offer if that weren't the case, but it's a bit late for that now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The two high end Sony LED tvs have a fantastic input lag measurement, and have similar tech as that monitor. Black frame insertion, etc. If I was gonna get a non-plasma, I'd have went for one of those. The input lag measurements are at around 17ms, which is fantastic for an HDTV. I'm used to


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys jealous? *wje Custom Kossheiser KSC-PX-175-ii* 

I'll be getting then hopefully Tuesday. I AM SO HYPED!


----------



## Change is Good

^Niiice


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I need a better name for it on my sig....

Probably something simple like:

Sennheiser PX100-II (wje modded w/KSC75 clips)


----------



## Change is Good

Well, if you look at the housing then you should call it the KOSS PX100-II


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then I can finally leave my KSC35 in my bag as I have been forgetting them in random places lately. I'm at work tonight with no headphones because I left my 35s on my dresser. ARGHghdjksjfjdfa;fka

the PX100-II can really bump.... so I'll be getting a lot of use for them when I listen to music. Probably more than my MA900. That and taking it to work everyday. The days I forget them, is when I'll whip out the trust old KSC35.


----------



## Change is Good

I really want you to try these 1540 pads on those MA900s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But they're oval. I don't wanna stretch out your pads just to see if it works.


----------



## Change is Good

True, but I have a feeling you'll want to buy them once you do...


----------



## OreoChocolate

Can a realtek audio 1150 and supreme fx drive a 250/32 ohm beyerdynamic dt 990?


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


>


 
  
  
 Hnnnggg!!
  
 I want some. 
  
 I would love to have a pair of those with the parts express headband attached.  That would be one sweet little headphone. 
  
  
 Check out this beast, Sennheiser PMX 100:
  

  
  
 The graph looks nice, similar to the PX 100 but with even more bass:
  
  

  
 There's also a PMX 200, but the graph looks _horrible:_
 http://www.headphone.com/headphones/sennheiser-pmx-200.php


----------



## chicolom

kain96z said:


> I can and I've tried. Its the silent cinema headphone technology thats messing with my sound mix. It amps the signal and changes the mix no matter how I hook it up. I can't turn it off. It automatically turns on when you plug in headphones. I guess I just prefer dolby headphone to game with my Q701s.


 
  
 I would think that surely there's got to be a way to disable silent cinema.  If the headphone jack has an undefeatable always-on DSP, that's pretty horrible design.


----------



## Kain96z

chicolom said:


> I would think that surely there's got to be a way to disable silent cinema.  If the headphone jack has an undefeatable always-on DSP, that's pretty horrible desI've


 
 I've dug through all the menu's, googled like crazy and spent hrs digging through forums and I can't find a way to turn it off!? I've tried all the presets and nothing sounds good for gaming. Maybe its just the fact that my receiver isn't properly amping my AKGs? Thats why I'm looking for the right solid state amp pairing just for gaming with Q701's. I just want to sound whore like its my job in bf4 lol.


----------



## Naingolann

mad lust envy said:


> You guys jealous? *wje Custom Kossheiser KSC-PX-175-ii*
> 
> I'll be getting then hopefully Tuesday. I AM SO HYPED!









I'd call 'em KOSS PX175-II.


----------



## Evshrug

^LOL @ GIF
Mad's PX100 makes me want to put fresh pads on mine... I loved them through college, most used audio speaker, though the pads are now threadbare


*Mad,*
YouTube is being... uncooperative with my iOS devices (it's almost like Google is competing against Apple! IKR, wouldn't that be a pain!), so I just wanted to say YES those Q701 are the ones I bought from you, and YES I've been babying them (aside from normal use... Well, normal use but a lot of time  ). Thanks for the comment. I wonder if Orion will ever see it? Lol I dragged my feet a little, but still it makes a worthy "IIKT Journal" entry for newbies.



kain96z said:


> I can and I've tried. Its the silent cinema headphone technology thats messing with my sound mix. It amps the signal and changes the mix no matter how I hook it up. I can't turn it off. It automatically turns on when you plug in headphones. I guess I just prefer dolby headphone to game with my Q701s.



I believe you just have to press the "Straight" button and select straight stereo... Works with my Yamaha and my Q701, don't see why it would be different for you.


----------



## Kain96z

evshrug said:


> ^LOL @ GIF
> Mad's PX100 makes me want to put fresh pads on mine... I loved them through college, most used audio speaker, though the pads are now threadbare
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry but thats not what I'm hearing when I use the "straight" audio feature.  That is the one I play with but I feel as if my positional audio goes to s**t with my yamaha now. Its louder but I'm trading loud for accuracy of directional audio imo. The first 100 to 150hrs were amazing with that exact set up(mixamp to yamaha on "straight" to Q701s) but the last 600+hrs have been a losing battle for me. The detail and directionality has faded over time.


----------



## martin vegas

.


----------



## AxelCloris

naingolann said:


>


 
  
 I love me some watamote.


----------



## Chubtoad

On the topic of displays, this will probably be my new monitor once its more widely available, seems like one of the best monitors to come out in a damn long time, love me the VA black levels, tftcentral tested a 4845:1 contrast which is crazy.
  
 tftcentral review - http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
 product page - http://gaming.eizo.com/products/foris_fg2421/
  
 On the topic of TVs, the Sony "W" series from 2013 is the current best tv from a gaming standpoint as far as I know, with a recorded input lag of 14.6ms/6ms or so, which is sub 1 frame and pretty damn amazing for a TV. Also, it has proper 4:4:4 chroma support
  
 here is one review of the 42 inch model - http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl42w653-201308113237.htm and a little preview from the results

Input lag (high-speed camera)6ms compared to lag-free CRT in [Game] modeLeo Bodnar input lag tester15ms in [Game] modeFull 4:4:4 reproduction (PC)Yes, in [Game] and [Graphics] modes

  
  
 I'll prob be picking up the 42 inch model at some point since my friend works at best buy and can get me one for 700 after taxes so not to bad imo.
  
 It uses a VA type panel as well, which is pretty much unrivaled for black levels in my opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I rented CoD:Ghosts for the PS3 (wanted to test it before I bought it on the PS4 next week).

I probably won't be buying the game after all. I just don't like the maps. They seem to be getting bigger, and more congested every year. Sometimes simplicity is best. Now it's trying to be a half assed Battlefield. Leave the big maps to Battlefield, geez. I like CoD for it's fast paced matches. Now everything has slowed down...again.

One good thing that came out of this game is that positional cues seem to be back to a good place. Even in the campaign (almost finished), I hear some distinct positional cues with the MA900. CoD's campaigns have been mostly terrible for audio cues, so this was a surprise.

I'm probably gonna pick up Killzone on the PS4 as my first next gen experience. I downloaded a high res, lightly compressed video of it running at 60fps, and I was amazed at how tight it looks and seems to play. Never been a KZ fan (I only played KZ2, and didn't care for it much), but with the multiplayer now running at 60fps, I might just start being one. I can't take online shooters seriously unless they run at 60fps.


----------



## miceblue

Kind of off-topic, but do you think there will be any good deals for the PS4 during Black Friday? I kind of doubt it considering it will be released 2 weeks before...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Definitely not.


----------



## Change is Good

All black friday deals will be for current gen I would believe


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that'd be my guess. I think at the most, you MIGHT find some games bundled with the purchase of the systems... assuming you can even get the systems without pre-orders. Not sure, as I tend to buy my all my stuff online with release date delivery (Amazon is my financial kryptonite).


----------



## miceblue

Yeah, good point. Ah well, I'll wait until more games are released.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was considering cancelling my pre-order for the PS4, but sooner or later, I will still have it. May as well have it now.


----------



## Change is Good

I canceled mine because I dont need any distractions during finals.

It hurt, but I'll get one eventually.


----------



## NamelessPFG

chubtoad said:


> On the topic of displays, this will probably be my new monitor once its more widely available, seems like one of the best monitors to come out in a damn long time, love me the VA black levels, tftcentral tested a 4845:1 contrast which is crazy.
> 
> tftcentral review - http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
> product page - http://gaming.eizo.com/products/foris_fg2421/
> ...


 
  
I linked the FlatpanelsHD review on the last page.
  
 A friend of mine told me about that monitor a few days ago, and the fact that it's a 120 Hz (effective input refresh rate, not counting the black frame insertion) LCD that's VA, or any non-TN panel type for that matter, is really promising. The only thing that still irritates me is the 1920x1080 resolution, but it's most likely one enforced by current display interfaces.
  
 As for that TV model, it appears to be a UK-specific model, and there is no way I'm getting reamed on the exchange rate and other importing-related costs just to get one delivered to the US. The closest I can find is the KDL-47W802A, which is already over $1,000 bought new. Way too rich for my blood, and there's no 42" model on offer here in the States.


----------



## benbenkr

namelesspfg said:


> As for that TV model, it appears to be a UK-specific model, and there is no way I'm getting reamed on the exchange rate and other importing-related costs just to get one delivered to the US. The closest I can find is the KDL-47W802A, which is already over $1,000 bought new. Way too rich for my blood, and there's no 42" model on offer here in the States.


 
  
 I thought the US should have a 42" model for the the W65x series? It's currently the very best bang-for-the-buck gamers HDTV one can get right now.
 Every other region and country has the 42" model, kind of odd the US doesn't?
  
 I'd stay away from the W802 though, poor blacks... though very much expected from an IPS panel.


----------



## vikaman

Hey guys,
  
 Been recently made aware of this thread. It's immense and I appreciate the effort everyone has put into this.
  
 I would like to clarify something. 
  
  
 I play games on a laptop and generally listen to music a lot more. I've been beginning to think about purchasing an ATH-AD700/AD700x. I see that Mad Lust uses the Mixamp, however that little box doesn't put out surround sound when connected through USB. My laptop doesn't have an optical out, only HDMI. Which the Astro doesn't support.
  
 Does this mean I am pretty much stuck with the Creative Sound Blaster Recon 3D?
  
 Thanks for any help!


----------



## chicolom

vikaman said:


> I play games on a laptop and generally listen to music a lot more. I've been beginning to think about purchasing an ATH-AD700/AD700x. I see that Mad Lust uses the Mixamp, however that little box doesn't put out surround sound when connected through USB. My laptop doesn't have an optical out, only HDMI. Which the Astro doesn't support.
> 
> Does this mean I am pretty much stuck with the Creative Sound Blaster Recon 3D?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


 
  
 Look into one of these:
 http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Audio_Cards_Mobile_and_Laptop_Products/


----------



## AxelCloris

vikaman said:


> Does this mean I am pretty much stuck with the Creative Sound Blaster Recon 3D?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


 
  
 Just like Chico mentioned there are alternatives. Granted, I don't feel that you'd be "stuck" with the Recon3D USB as I feel it's a quite capable device. The link he gave you has Asus's 3 models for surround processing. The U3 is excellent on a budget. And many places will offer it with a Mail In Rebate from time to time. When you factor in the MIR, I got the U3 myself a while back for $15. Hard to argue with that price. I haven't heard the U1, though I've always wanted to as I love the design. And I've only heard the U7 briefly so I don't have any strong opinions one way or another on it. But I liked what I did hear.


----------



## vikaman

chicolom said:


> Look into one of these:
> http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_Audio_Cards_Mobile_and_Laptop_Products/


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> Just like Chico mentioned there are alternatives. Granted, I don't feel that you'd be "stuck" with the Recon3D USB as I feel it's a quite capable device. The link he gave you has Asus's 3 models for surround processing. The U3 is excellent on a budget. And many places will offer it with a Mail In Rebate from time to time. When you factor in the MIR, I got the U3 myself a while back for $15. Hard to argue with that price. I haven't heard the U1, though I've always wanted to as I love the design. And I've only heard the U7 briefly so I don't have any strong opinions one way or another on it. But I liked what I did hear.


 
  
 Thanks for the advice! 
  
 The U7 is just out of my budget (if you consider the AD700). I am not sure if the U3 and U1 handle 5.1 surround. However, I am happy to see you endorse the 3D Recon, it's well within my budget and supports surround sound!


----------



## AxelCloris

On a budget, I think the U3 is excellent. So if you're looking to save a few bucks and you don't need console/Mac support then I'd say go U3. For me the Recon3D is perfect because it works in both OS X and Windows. The U3 does not.


----------



## vikaman

axelcloris said:


> On a budget, I think the U3 is excellent. So if you're looking to save a few bucks and you don't need console/Mac support then I'd say go U3. For me the Recon3D is perfect because it works in both OS X and Windows. The U3 does not.


 
 Thanks again! I didn't know the U3 offered surround sound! I am convinced to go for the U3.
  
 Is it a good match up with the AD700? I realise that gaming requires a large/wide soundstage, but I also want a normal pair of headphones for rock/classical music. Think the AD700 come the closest to satisfying all this.


----------



## AxelCloris

vikaman said:


> Thanks again! I didn't know the U3 offered surround sound! I am convinced to go for the U3.
> 
> Is it a good match up with the AD700? I realise that gaming requires a large/wide soundstage, but I also want a normal pair of headphones for rock/classical music. Think the AD700 come the closest to satisfying all this.


 
  
 I can't speak too much to the AD700 as I haven't heard it in several years. It didn't fit well either so I'm pretty sure I wasn't getting the most out of it. I have a larger head, but it's a little more oval shaped, and narrower from ear to ear, so the wing design on the ATs is absolutely horrible to me. Others swear by its comfort. It's an entirely personal headphone. Also, I remember there being a lack of low end that just sounded unnatural. But that's my sonic memory.


----------



## Chubtoad

Nameless, the model numbers are different for North America than they are for Europe.
  
 the model number for North America is KDL42W650A I believe.
  
  
 At least in Canada that is what it is. This is the Best Buy Canada link - http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/sony-sony-42-1080p-120hz-led-smart-tv-kdl42w650a-kdl42w650a/10269269.aspx
  
 I'm sure its the same in America. (I live in Canada)


----------



## Evshrug

vikaman said:


> Thanks again! I didn't know the U3 offered surround sound! I am convinced to go for the U3.
> 
> Is it a good match up with the AD700? I realise that gaming requires a large/wide soundstage, but I also want a normal pair of headphones for rock/classical music. Think the AD700 come the closest to satisfying all this.



The AD700 was my first awesome gaming headphone, and I personally think it hits the gaming sweet spot for a very affordable price. I heard that it fits wider heads better in stock form, I have a bit of a narrower head but by flexing the "arcs" and putting a rubber band between the wings, both with the goal to have the top and bottom of the earpads rest flush with my head, I achieved what was probably the most comfortable (for me) gaming marathon headphone. The wings were kinder to my head than any headband (or ear hook). For music though... the sound lacks body, the bass is very tight but kinda recessed, most of the headphone's frequency response is kinda "laid back." Which can sometimes be a good thing, but I alternated between headphones and speakers for music till I upgraded to an AKG, which has soundstage AND isn't as laid back and has more bass body. Still, I think the AD700 (and Koss KSC75) make for GREAT VALUE, they stand up well against average headphones and make a good reference point in the future to ask yourself "is this new headphone worth it over the AD700?"

The U3 _does_ offer surround, using Dolby Headphone processing, but you'll probably hear an improvement with the AD700 if you get a FiiO E5 or E6. Those are cheap amps, but the main reason you'd want them is because the U3 has pretty high output impedance while the AD700 has low dampening ability, putting a little FiiO amp between them will benefit you with less harshness and distortion, sound clearer and more detailed. The other benefit is the little FiiOs have a little bass boost option, if you want it sometimes.
My favourite pairing with the AD700 was my Recon3D. I plugged the phones straight in, and I thought it was awesome I could use the one processor for my Mac (movies and Starcraft II), Console (Xbox360, but PS3 is supported too), and Windows (hardcore games). Using the bass boost and setting the "crossover point" low sounded pretty awesome, the ambiance of Metro 2033 blew me away.


----------



## vikaman

evshrug said:


> The AD700 was my first awesome gaming headphone, and I personally think it hits the gaming sweet spot for a very affordable price. I heard that it fits wider heads better in stock form, I have a bit of a narrower head but by flexing the "arcs" and putting a rubber band between the wings, both with the goal to have the top and bottom of the earpads rest flush with my head, I achieved what was probably the most comfortable (for me) gaming marathon headphone. The wings were kinder to my head than any headband (or ear hook). For music though... the sound lacks body, the bass is very tight but kinda recessed, most of the headphone's frequency response is kinda "laid back." Which can sometimes be a good thing, but I alternated between headphones and speakers for music till I upgraded to an AKG, which has soundstage AND isn't as laid back and has more bass body. Still, I think the AD700 (and Koss KSC75) make for GREAT VALUE, they stand up well against average headphones and make a good reference point in the future to ask yourself "is this new headphone worth it over the AD700?"
> 
> The U3 _does_ offer surround, using Dolby Headphone processing, but you'll probably hear an improvement with the AD700 if you get a FiiO E5 or E6. Those are cheap amps, but the main reason you'd want them is because the U3 has pretty high output impedance while the AD700 has low dampening ability, putting a little FiiO amp between them will benefit you with less harshness and distortion, sound clearer and more detailed. The other benefit is the little FiiOs have a little bass boost option, if you want it sometimes.
> My favourite pairing with the AD700 was my Recon3D. I plugged the phones straight in, and I thought it was awesome I could use the one processor for my Mac (movies and Starcraft II), Console (Xbox360, but PS3 is supported too), and Windows (hardcore games). Using the bass boost and setting the "crossover point" low sounded pretty awesome, the ambiance of Metro 2033 blew me away.


 
 Thanks so  much for the help!
  
 Think I've decided to go with: Xonar U3 -> Fiio E5 -> AD700x. 
  
 I'd love to have the Recon 3D, but it's like £75 here, which is a lot of money. Infact, it costs £10 less than the AD700x I sourced on ebay. 
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Aphexbug

Thank you for this great list, i will buy *Skullcandy SLYR* since my budget is 100 USD, i'm so curious about the MixAmp thing, is my first time to read about this.


----------



## PurpleAngel

vikaman said:


> Think I've decided to go with: Xonar U3 -> Fiio E5 -> AD700x.
> I'd love to have the Recon 3D, but it's like £75 here, which is a lot of money. Infact, it costs £10 less than the AD700x I sourced on ebay.


 
 You might consider skipping on the E5 and AD700X and get the HD558 and plugging the HD558 directly into the U3.
 I believe the U3's headphone amplifier is ok for headphones up to 150-Ohms.
 The HD5XX series seems to do well with FPS gaming, comes with a decent amount more bass then my Audio Technica ATH-AD700s.
 And the HD558s are 50-Ohm and are not as negatively affected by high impedance, my HD558 sound fair good plugged into my Yamaha receivers high impedance headphone output.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, vikaman hasn't stated his sound preferences, I just mentioned the AD700 pros & cons to confirm what he/she has found from previous research. In a surround gaming audio thread, I make the assumption that surround and soundstage are important, and the AD700 (and Sony MA900) have the best soundstaging I've heard. And, I don't know how much a Sennheiser HD558 is in Europe, but £85 sounds like a high-enough price for the AD700*x* (my old-style purple AD700 were $80 US), I thought the HD558 cost a fair bit more. Still, the HD558 bass has better extension than the AD700x (I think) and may be more fun with music.

The FiiO E5/6 was just a suggestion to round-out the AD700, I personally enjoyed music more with the humble amp attached, but it is an optional purchase. No harm in trying a headphone without it first, and an amp could always be added later. Would be a good way to learn the difference made by output impedance. However, on that note, the AD700 didn't sound "bad" out from my Yamaha receiver either, and 32 ohms resistance isn't that different than 50 ohms, especially if you're trying to keep the 1/8 output to input impedance ratio suggestions.


----------



## widdyjudas

I want to ask regarding the U3. So the xonar U3 is like a mixamp solution for laptop with onboard soundcard right? It emulate surround like mixamp in laptop, just like mixamp with console?
 So if in my case is laptop usb -  u3 optic out - optic in aune x1 - fidelio x1.


----------



## PurpleAngel

widdyjudas said:


> I want to ask regarding the U3. So the xonar U3 is like a mix-amp solution for laptop with on-board sound card right? It emulate surround like mix-amp in laptop, just like mix-amp with console?
> So if in my case is laptop usb -  u3 optic out - optic in aune x1 - fidelio x1.


 
 The Xonar U3 and the Astro Mix-amp both provide Headphone Surround Sound
 They also both bypass the laptops on-board audio features and just use their own.
 If the laptop comes with a S/PDIF optical output, the Aune X1 could also be used plugged directly into the laptop, using the on-board audio features, for gaming and movies (or use the Xonar U3, if it works better).
 But for music or any other basic 2-channel audio, you can plug the Aune X1 into the laptop, using USB.


----------



## widdyjudas

purpleangel said:


> The Xonar U3 and the Astro Mix-amp both provide Headphone Surround Sound
> They also both bypass the laptops on-board audio features and just use their own.
> If the laptop comes with a S/PDIF optical output, the Aune X1 could also be used plugged directly into the laptop, using the on-board audio features, for gaming and movies (or use the Xonar U3, if it works better).
> But for music or any other basic 2-channel audio, you can plug the Aune X1 into the laptop, using USB.


 
 So its basically a mixamp, but for laptop or pc?
 Yes, I usually plugged my aune via usb, so it bypass the onboard soundcard. My laptop only got the crappy realtek soundcard, no optic output. The U3 come with optic dongle, so I can plug it to my aune via optic out from laptop usb.
 So the U3 is best with movie and gaming, not good for music?


----------



## benbenkr

I don't know how the U3 is actually good for movies though since most movies are encoded in DTS format these days. Unless I'm missing something here, DH doesn't work with DTS encoded movies.


----------



## PurpleAngel

widdyjudas said:


> So its basically a mixamp, but for laptop or pc?
> Yes, I usually plugged my aune via usb, so it bypass the on-board sound card. My laptop only got the crappy Realtek sound card, no optic output. The U3 come with optic dongle, so I can plug it to my Aune via optic out from laptop usb.
> So the U3 is best with movie and gaming, not good for music?


 
 So basically the U3 is "Mix-amp" that uses a USB connection (for a desktop or laptop)
  
 The U3 will really have no effect on the "audio quality", when it's connected optically to the Aune T1.
 For 2-channel audio, like music, all the U3 is doing is passing along the digital audio signal, to the Aune T1.
 Try using the program Foobar2000, it's good for sending a audio signal, from a computer's the USB port (or a computer optical or coaxial port)
  
 When using the U3 for surround sound for gaming and movies, the U3 will process the 6-channels (5.1) of digital audio
 down to 2-channels of Dolby headphone surround sound, which is passed to the Aune T1, where the Aune T1 handles "audio quality", using it's own DAC and amp.


----------



## widdyjudas

Well, I will use it mainly for gaming...
 Movie I will test it later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have mentioned countless times that I use the Xonar U3 myself.

It is basically a Mixamp for any computer.

Hook it up via USB, and boom, instant Dolby Headphone, even for the worst/cheapest netbook in existence.

As mentioned, you can set the U3 in the software to outout a digital signal with dolby headphone, so you can attach another dac/amp, so that way you can have a better quality dac and amp, instead of the crappy ones built in to the U3.

The U3 has a horribly large output impedance of 23ohms, so it will affect the frequency of almost every headphone you connect to it. You will want to use another dac/amp with it, for optimal quality. I attach the Fiio E17 to it, via the U3's optical out to the E17's optical in.

It doesn't matter how horrible the U3 is, because you will ONLY be using it to turn the audio signal to dolby headphone. That is ALL it will do, as you will be bypassing the dac and amp and using your own. However, if you use the U3 and attach JUST an amp, then you will be using the U3's dac. Or if using the U3 alone, then of course, you're limited to the U3's dac and amp. The amp is NOT good, so I'd advise on getting at least something like a Fiio D03k optical dac ($30 or so), and a Fiio E5 ($20) to bypass the U3's inferior dac/amp. Of course, if you want the simplest solution with no clutter, U3+E17 is the better choice, more powerful, cleaner...


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks for the explanation. I will use it with the aune x1.
So it will be laptop usb--u3 optic out--aune x1 dac/amp optic in--fidelio x1.


----------



## conquerator2

Hey guys,
Just a heads-up on the PX5 DSS transmitter.
Tested with the ATH-A900X and the noise floor is very, very low!
At high listening levels there is none. Only in the last 1/3 of the volume pot, there is very slight noise, but it's hardly hearable when no music is playing and it's way too load of a volume to use anyway.
In comparison to my PC soundcard output, it's might and day in terms of noise!
Very impressive in this regard as I believe the 900X are rather sensitive.


----------



## vikaman

evshrug said:


> Well, vikaman hasn't stated his sound preferences, I just mentioned the AD700 pros & cons to confirm what he/she has found from previous research. In a surround gaming audio thread, I make the assumption that surround and soundstage are important, and the AD700 (and Sony MA900) have the best soundstaging I've heard. And, I don't know how much a Sennheiser HD558 is in Europe, but £85 sounds like a high-enough price for the AD700*x* (my old-style purple AD700 were $80 US), I thought the HD558 cost a fair bit more. Still, the HD558 bass has better extension than the AD700x (I think) and may be more fun with music.
> 
> The FiiO E5/6 was just a suggestion to round-out the AD700, I personally enjoyed music more with the humble amp attached, but it is an optional purchase. No harm in trying a headphone without it first, and an amp could always be added later. Would be a good way to learn the difference made by output impedance. However, on that note, the AD700 didn't sound "bad" out from my Yamaha receiver either, and 32 ohms resistance isn't that different than 50 ohms, especially if you're trying to keep the 1/8 output to input impedance ratio suggestions.


 
 Ha. Sorry, I had started a thread earlier requesting information for a gaming + rock music set up with surround sound. PurpleAngel is aware of that thread.
  
 The incredible thing is that that the AD700x is £85 but with shipping and customs it becomes around £120. Local AD700x's cost around £180! It makes so sense.
 The HD558 is £115 outright. 
  
 But yes, I have a rock/classical preference with occasional gaming that relies on positional sound. 
  
 In my thread I started out with the Grado SR60i, slowly moving away from that notion.


----------



## Evshrug

*Conq,*
What do you think of the A900x's size? Cool to hear the PX5 processor is good 




widdyjudas said:


> I want to ask regarding the U3. So the xonar U3 is like a mixamp solution for laptop with onboard soundcard right? It emulate surround like mixamp in laptop, just like mixamp with console?
> So if in my case is laptop usb -  u3 optic out - optic in aune x1 - fidelio x1.



 Yisss...




vikaman said:


> Ha. Sorry, I had started a thread earlier requesting information for a gaming + rock music set up with surround sound. PurpleAngel is aware of that thread.
> 
> The incredible thing is that that the AD700x is £85 but with shipping and customs it becomes around £120. Local AD700x's cost around £180! It makes so sense.
> The HD558 is £115 outright.
> ...



I mean, I bought my dad a pair of Grado SR60 (before the i version), he loves them and I liked what I heard. They're large on-ear headphones though, so personal comfort preferences come into play.
The HD558 is no bad choice, if you listen to music more than gaming the HD558 may be better as a well-rounded choice. Sennheiser's top gaming headset is based on the HD558 with a mic added, iirc. I used the AD700 for 3 years, it was very good but eventually I realized I personally preferred a little more forward headphone. Once you get your headphone, you'll be able to make your own call (though tbh you'll probably be pleased whichever nice headphone you try first  ).


----------



## vikaman

purpleangel said:


> You might consider skipping on the E5 and AD700X and get the HD558 and plugging the HD558 directly into the U3.
> I believe the U3's headphone amplifier is ok for headphones up to 150-Ohms.
> The HD5XX series seems to do well with FPS gaming, comes with a decent amount more bass then my Audio Technica ATH-AD700s.
> And the HD558s are 50-Ohm and are not as negatively affected by high impedance, my HD558 sound fair good plugged into my Yamaha receivers high impedance headphone output.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> I mean, I bought my dad a pair of Grado SR60 (before the i version), he loves them and I liked what I heard. They're large on-ear headphones though, so personal comfort preferences come into play.
> The HD558 is no bad choice, if you listen to music more than gaming the HD558 may be better as a well-rounded choice. Sennheiser's top gaming headset is based on the HD558 with a mic added, iirc. I used the AD700 for 3 years, it was very good but eventually I realized I personally preferred a little more forward headphone. Once you get your headphone, you'll be able to make your own call (though tbh you'll probably be pleased whichever nice headphone you try first
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the help everyone!
  
 Think I'm settling for the AD700x. I've had a Senn HD555 before and the crack that formed on the headband freaked me out constantly, not too keen on reliving that on a HD558 (unless it doesn't occur on these headphones).
  
 Think my final setup will be: Xonar U3 -> Fiio E6 -> AD700x.
  
 AD700x: http://www.eglobaldigitalstore.co.uk/audio-technica-ath-ad700x-open-air-dynamic-headphones.html
 Xonar U3: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Xonaru3-Mobile-USB-Soundcard/dp/B004ZI5E1S
 Fiio E6: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FiiO-E6-Fujiyama-IPod-and-MP3-Headphone-Amplifier-FREE-UK-POSTAGE-/300894883753?pt=UK_CE_MP3Access_RL&hash=item460ebb8fa9
  
  
 Total comes up to around ~£160, which is well within my budget! Just praying the AD700x website is legit because that's apparently phenomenally cheap; the average price I've seen everwhere else is a £160-180.


----------



## PurpleAngel

vikaman said:


> Think I'm settling for the AD700x. I've had a Senn HD555 before and the crack that formed on the headband freaked me out constantly, not too keen on reliving that on a HD558 (unless it doesn't occur on these headphones).
> 
> Think my final setup will be: Xonar U3 -> Fiio E6 -> AD700x.


 
 I believe the Sennheiser cracking problem was resolved a few years ago.
 I've had my HD558s for a few years, no cracking problem.


----------



## chicolom

conquerator2 said:


> Hey guys,
> Just a heads-up on the PX5 DSS transmitter.
> Tested with the ATH-A900X and the noise floor is very, very low!


 
   
 

 Is that base even available on its own (apart from buying a PX5 headset and having it come with it)?


----------



## conquerator2

chicolom said:


> Is that base even available on its own (apart from buying a PX5 headset and having it come with it)?


 
 Some people claimed so.
 The head-fiers supposedly saw some over at Ebay/Amazon.


----------



## jtsanabria

So after a good amount of research and questioning what to purchase to power my AKG K712 Pros, I'm narrowed it down to the following list:

 Audio-GD NFB-15.32
 FiiO E17
 iBasso D42 Mamba
 JDS Labs Objective 2
 Matrix M-stage

 I understand these are of different price ranges for the most part, but what are your opinions on this list? If you had to choose ONE to purchase, which would it be? 

 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love A-Gd products, so I'd go for that, but you need to know that the 15.32 doesn't have an analog input, so you can't hook up a DAC or Mixamp to it. You'd have to get at least the Compass 2 to be able to use external devices. If you're a PC gamer, you can use something like the Xonar U3 to the 15.32 though.


----------



## jtsanabria

mad lust envy said:


> I love A-Gd products, so I'd go for that, but you need to know that the 15.32 doesn't have an analog input, so you can't hook up a DAC or Mixamp to it. You'd have to get at least the Compass 2 to be able to use external devices. If you're a PC gamer, you can use something like the Xonar U3 to the 15.32 though.


 

 Would you recommend just purchasing the Compass 2 over the 15.32 then?


----------



## SaLX

If you get the cheapest Xonar (internal or external), a SBZ Oem or a titanium (non-HD), you can then output to the 15.32/E17 via Spdif and retain the surround sound processing, eq etc from whatever's cards software. All depends on your favourite form of surround sound. This method means there will be no noise from the PC's innards transmitted to your digital signal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jtsanabria said:


> Would you recommend just purchasing the Compass 2 over the 15.32 then?




If you're a console gamer that want's to use their amp/dac with something like a Mixamp, yes, the Compass 2 is the way to do it. If you're a PC gamer only, then the 15.32 will be fine.


----------



## funnyguy123

So I'm using Razer Surround for my virtual surround sound. In the game what should my audio settings be? There are usually choices between headphone, 2 speaker, 5.1, and 7.1.


----------



## Eric_C

funnyguy123 said:


> So I'm using Razer Surround for my virtual surround sound. In the game what should my audio settings be? There are usually choices between headphone, 2 speaker, 5.1, and 7.1.


 
 I'm guessing you want 5.1 or 7.1. Seems like Razer Surround is about downmixing actual surround sound signals, and making them suitable for headphones. 
http://gizmodo.com/razers-surround-software-could-turn-regular-headphones-571816919


----------



## mpawluk91

jtsanabria said:


> So after a good amount of research and questioning what to purchase to power my AKG K712 Pros, I'm narrowed it down to the following list:
> 
> 
> Audio-GD NFB-15.32
> ...


Arrow 4g


----------



## Fegefeuer

Any news about a new exciting external device that is not priced like the Headzone?


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Any news about a new exciting external device that is not priced like the Headzone?


Unfortunately no. I don't think anyone has pestered FiiO about it though.


----------



## LoveKnight

Hey ya.
  
 Today I want to upgrade a DAC to convert Digital Dobly, DTS signal from my computer to an amp to make my HD598 become a surround headphone for games and movies. I search and read a lot and saw many people recommend Asus Xonar U3 usb for a low budget and a Fiio D03 but after search and saw the  sound system configuration on my laptop I saw this.
  

  
 So it could be that my Toshiba Satellite M300 supports SPDIF output and support DD and DTS too but I do not know which type of SPDIF output (which could be toslink, coxial or optical and I am really confused here) but they use the same 3.5mm analog output plug on my laptop too ah I mean my laptop only has one 3.5mm hole, weird?
  
 Addition, I saw Fiio D07s on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/D07-Advanced-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B00BB4AECI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384267221&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+D7 which support
  

Converts coaxial or optical digital audio input to analog stereo output over RCA and 3.5mm mini jack
Supports all popular sample rates including 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz and 96kHz, at up to 24-bit resolution
Decodes Dolby and DTS signals for excellent compatibility with modern HDTVs.
Switch selectable coaxial or optical input.
 

  
 So my question is if I am correct, I just need to buy a cable to connect from the 3.5mm plug on my laptop to Fiio D07 then use the line out to my amplifier then to my headphone but what type of cable do I have to buy? The toslink or optical cable? More, I can not see the red light inside my 3.5mm plug. Do not know what do do so that's why I ask you, guys for help.
  
 Thanks and see ya. Have a nice day.


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> Unfortunately no. I don't think anyone has pestered FiiO about it though.


 
  
 Well, I wrote them a mail months ago and they sent it to R&D but this is nothing compared to action we could take here. 
  
 We need Must Lust Envy aka Shinji Czech right here, right now to talk to the resident FiiOist!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

loveknight said:


> Hey ya.
> 
> Today I want to upgrade a DAC to convert Digital Dobly, DTS signal from my computer to an amp to make my HD598 become a surround headphone for games and movies. I search and read a lot and saw many people recommend Asus Xonar U3 usb for a low budget and a Fiio D03 but after search and saw the  sound system configuration on my laptop I saw this.
> 
> ...




You need to understand something: Decoding Dolby and DTS is just that, it decodes it and converts it to stereo. THIS IS NOT THE SAME as converting it to Dolby Headphone virtual surround.

This is only useful for something like connecting your headphones directly to a TV with an optical out that doesn't have a PCM option (PCM aka conerting it to 2 channel stereo). For example, my ST30 plasma that I sold recently had an optical out, but it didn't convert over the air feeds to PCM, instead leaving them in Dolby Digital. So when I connected it to my own optical DAC to it (Compass 2, E17, or D03k), all I got was garbled noise. Had the ST30 come with a PCM option in the menu, I would've been able to use my headphones with it (although in just stereo).

The D07k just makes it that any and every optical output on any device will be converted into a signal your headphones can understand.

Toslink cable = optical cable

Even the Fiio E17 has those Dolby and DTS boxes checked in. I dunno why, as it can't read those signals.

You absolutely need something like the *Mixamp, Xonar U3 to get DOLBY HEADPHONE. THAT IS WHAT GIVES YOU SURROUND.*


----------



## a_recording

I gave a shout out to this thread on my AD700X review. Keep it up :3 I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the AD700X compared with the AD700. I didn't find much difference myself.


----------



## PurpleAngel

loveknight said:


> Today I want to upgrade a DAC to convert Digital Dobly, DTS signal from my computer to an amp to make my HD598 become a surround headphone for games and movies. I search and read a lot and saw many people recommend Asus Xonar U3 usb for a low budget and a Fiio D03 but after search and saw the  sound system configuration on my laptop I saw this.
> So it could be that my Toshiba Satellite M300 supports SPDIF output and support DD and DTS too but I do not know which type of SPDIF output (which could be toslink, coxial or optical and I am really confused here) but they use the same 3.5mm analog output plug on my laptop too ah I mean my laptop only has one 3.5mm hole, weird?
> Addition, I saw Fiio D07s on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/D07-Advanced-Digital-Analog-Converter/dp/B00BB4AECI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384267221&sr=8-1&keywords=Fiio+D7 which support
> 
> ...


 
 It looks like your Toshiba laptops 3.5mm output jack is dual use, it functions as a line-out/headphone jack (analog audio signal) and a S/PDIF optical (digital audio signal).
 It does not seem like your laptop comes with Dolby or DTS software.
 At the website Codecguide, you can get their Media Player Classic, which I should work fine for DVD movies.
 Your laptop comes with a low cost built in sound card, not sure if it supports any kind of gaming surround sound?
  
 Check out the Creative Labs Omni 5.1 USB sound card.


----------



## SaLX

Great review of the AD900X vs. MA900. Interesting to see your further review of the 1000. Does Audio Technica still get a lot of love here on Head-Fi?


----------



## a_recording

salx said:


> Great review of the AD900X vs. MA900. Interesting to see your further review of the 1000. Does Audio Technica still get a lot of love here on Head-Fi?


 
  
 My review of the AD1000X is on the bottom of that post haha. I think AT gets a lot of love from certain parts of Head Fi, but it seems to depend on the country...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd give them a lot more love if they would just stop using the 3d wing design. It turns me off completely. Every single headphone with that design that I've worn is just awkward to wear and doesn't feel secure on my head at all. It's a constant balancing act.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

a_recording said:


> I gave a shout out to this thread on my AD700X review. Keep it up :3 I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the AD700X compared with the AD700. I didn't find much difference myself.




Thanks for the plug! I reaponded with my Shin CZ account.

Hmm, not sure I'll ever have a chance to try the AD700x, but it seems that if you already own the AD700, it's probably not worth upgrading to the AD700x if they're that similar. I've heard they were very similar from other people, so I'm guessing the AD700x is just a slight retuning, with better aesthetics, since the color scheme put off a lot of people.


----------



## conquerator2

Speaking of Audio Technicas,
 Can the U3 alone drive them sufficiently?
 Namely the A900X [42 ohms, 101db/mw] and the W1000X [40 ohms, 100db/mw]?
 Does the U3 work well with music [i.e. - is there something like a bypass function so it can play music in stereo]?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The U3 has a very high output impedance, which will mess with the frequency response of the Technicas. The Technicas border on being a bit too treble happy, so this could be a bad thing if it makes it harsher.

The U3's internal amp sucks in either case, though if you're not worriedd about the frequency response being altered, the U3 would drive those quite loudly.


----------



## widdyjudas

So far satisfied with the U3. The surround effect is very good for movies and most games. Few games like warthunder does not benefit much with the effect imo. However, FPS game like COD, CS go, L4D2 really shine with the U3. Even games like Sc2 and D3 are really good with the u3 surround effect.
 I tried to plug the x1 directly to the U3, the sound becomes much boomer. It need to be plugged to another Amp/Dac.
 Music is just horrible with the U3...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do hope you're turning off Dolby Headphone in the U3's software menu when you listen to music, though obviously unnecessary when you have your own amp/dac.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> The U3 has a very high output impedance, which will mess with the frequency response of the Technicas. The Technicas border on being a bit too treble happy, so this could be a bad thing if it makes it harsher.
> 
> The U3's internal amp sucks in either case, though if you're not worriedd about the frequency response being altered, the U3 would drive those quite loudly.




I think I'll give it a try.
Is there a different DH device you'd recommend?


----------



## widdyjudas

mad lust envy said:


> I do hope you're turning off Dolby Headphone in the U3's software menu when you listen to music, though obviously unnecessary when you have your own amp/dac.


 

 Yes, I do turn it off. However, the sound becomes bassy and somehow feels metallic. I dont know how to describe it...
 For music, I just plug my aune x1 with usb.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> I think I'll give it a try.
> Is there a different DH device you'd recommend?




For pc use? No, because the U3 is basically JUST sending dolby headphone signal to your legit headphone dac and amp. Getting a more expensive device is basically pointless, unless you don't have a legitimate headphone amp and dac (your dac must have an optical input). Of course, if you want an internal soundcard that does the same thing, I think that would be the Xonar DG.

Of course, the Xonar menu must be set so that the headphone jack on the U3 is sending an optical signal in PCM.


----------



## a_recording

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks for the plug! I reaponded with my Shin CZ account.
> 
> Hmm, not sure I'll ever have a chance to try the AD700x, but it seems that if you already own the AD700, it's probably not worth upgrading to the AD700x if they're that similar. I've heard they were very similar from other people, so I'm guessing the AD700x is just a slight retuning, with better aesthetics, since the color scheme put off a lot of people.


 
  
 Yeah I'm not sure they would be much of an upgrade for a happy AD700 owner, but on the other hand they didn't mess with the formula. Have to wonder what the upcoming AG and ADG will be like...
  


mad lust envy said:


> The U3 has a very high output impedance, which will mess with the frequency response of the Technicas. The Technicas border on being a bit too treble happy, so this could be a bad thing if it makes it harsher.


 
  
 As far as I understand it, a high output impedance only really messes a great deal with frequency response if the impedance of a headphone swings quite a bit in the first place (since a high output impedance will mean different currents at different frequencies). At least as far as the W1000X goes Tyll's impedance measurements seem pretty stable so I don't imagine high output impedance will interact too much with it. Damping factor on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm not sure how Audio Technicas respond to impedance mismatches, but I know some headphones like the K70x doesn't get affected much, nor do planar magnetics. Some others do vary quite a bit. In either case, the U3 has a 23ohm output impedance, which is waaay too high, and the internal amp sucks regardless.


----------



## widdyjudas

If I build a pc later early next year, are there any point for getting an internal soundcard if I already have the U3? Since for pc surround gaming, U3 is basically more than enough.
 Maybe for music benefit, with coaxial/optical output (24/192) from the soundcard, rather just from USB (24/96)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want less external equipment, then yes getting an internal soundcard is better. Otherwise, there's no benefit of getting something else, since all the grunt is being done by your own dac/amp.


----------



## Qupie

Hi Mad Lust Envy!
  
 First of all, thnx for the wonderfull read. 
  
 As an audiophile from birth ( inherited  ) I am glad you found your way to the music side of this great hobby next to your gaming purposes. 
 For myself the story is the other way around, been using my 5.1 system for gaming, and I am looking into buying a headset/mixamp for gaming purposes soon.
  
 I use an Igrado (pretty nice audio, used rarely for gaming, tried it but not convinced yet, probably need a mix amp) or my 5.1 set for gaming right now, but I am going to upgrade soon. (thinking about senheiser, audio technica or another grado). The Igrado is great for its price (if you have not tried it) but I feel they are uncomfortable and not compatible with my big head 
  
 I have one small Question. I own an receiver (marantz sr 5600), it has dolby headphones function. Is this a good function to use from a receiver, or is it only recommended for the actual headphone amps? And therefore, do you think a mixamp still ads allot of detail compared to my receiver? 
  
  
 Thnx in advance, and again, thnx for all the effort you put into this page!
  
 Qupie


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That receiver is all you need for now. I had an inferior model that sounded fantastic, though it was used and died on me.

The receiver does the same exact thing as the Mixamp, etc. As long as Dolby Headphone is on, and you're getting a Dolby Digital or DTS signal, you'll be hearing the same virtual surround we do.


----------



## Qupie

Awesome! Thnx for the quick reply! 
  
 I guess I will miss out on the equalizer part, so I will have to buy non-muddy /non-bass heavy headphones, but that was my plan anyway.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Repost from Nameless PC Gaming Thread
  
  

  
 PC True Audio, PS4 True Audio, Xbone's SHAPE similarly to use. Talk about REAL hardware accelerated audio explosion. The future can only be bright.
  
http://www.maximumpc.com/everything_you_wanted_know_about_amd%E2%80%99s_new_trueaudio_technology_2013
  
What is True Audio?
  


> In a nutshell, *TrueAudio is a return to the concept of hardware accelerated audio processing*, with AMD leveraging their position to put the necessary hardware on the GPU. *Hardware accelerated audio processing in the PC space essentially died with Windows Vista, which moved most of the Windows audio stack into software*. Previously the stack was significantly implemented through drivers and as such various elements could be offloaded onto the sound card itself, which in the case of 3D audio meant having the audio card process and transform DirectSound 3D calls as it saw fit. However with Vista hardware processing and hardware access to those APIs was stripped, and* combined with a general “good enough” mindset of software audio + Realtek audio codecs, the matter was essentially given up on.*
> 
> Now even with the loss of traditional hardware acceleration due to Vista, you can still do advanced 3D audio and other effects in software by having the game engine itself do the work. However this is generally not something that’s done, as game developers are hesitant to allocate valuable CPU time to audio and other effects that are difficult to demonstrate and sell. Further complicating this is of course the current generation consoles, which dedicate a relatively small portion of what are already pretty limited resources to audio processing. As a result the baseline for audio is at times an 8 year old console, or at best a conservative fraction of one CPU core.


  

  


> MPC: You guys are using GenAudio and McDSP. *GenAudio’s says AstoundSound modeling is based on how the brain reacts to sound rather than the older model of putting microphones into head dummies to create the algorithms*. GenAudio calls it HRBF. How is HRBF an improvement on Head Related Transfer Functions (HRTFs)?
> 
> AMD: [...] GenAudio’s BRTF is based on the way the brain actually interprets audio, as analyzed through EEG-fMRI and MEG data. Traditional HRTFs assume, as you implied, that your head is the same size and shape as the dummy head used to create the psychoacoustic model. But the critical failing of an HRTF is that nobody’s head is the same size or shape as the binaural dummy head, so you have to go deeper. Right into the brain. Learn how the brain itself receives and processes a 3D soundfield, and then you work back from there to create the algorithms that work on that level. *The GenAudio team has done that, and I’ve not met one person who hasn’t been blown away by the quality of their methods as demonstrated in Lichdom*.


----------



## widdyjudas

mad lust envy said:


> If you want less external equipment, then yes getting an internal soundcard is better. Otherwise, there's no benefit of getting something else, since all the grunt is being done by your own dac/amp.




Guess i'll just use the u3 then. I dont think i can hear much different from coax input 24/192 compared from usb 24/96.
I'm trying not to stretch my 1500usd budget, so any unnecessary items must go.


----------



## aserate

Hey Mad Lust!

 First, thanks for the in-depth guide of this topic.
 I'm very interested in buying a gaming headset (or w/ souncard) so my googling brought me here. Sad to say the choices of headphones/soundcard here are limited, not to mention my budget.
  
 Anyway, I'm currently eyeing on the Siberia V2 analog + budget sound card (xonar d* series maybe). Is that combination good? Or do you got something else on your mind. My budget would be about less than $130 for a headphone + soundcard combo. I'd be very much happy if you'll help me out on this one.


----------



## PurpleAngel

conquerator2 said:


> Speaking of Audio Technicas,
> Can the U3 alone drive them sufficiently?
> Namely the A900X [42 ohms, 101db/mw] and the W1000X [40 ohms, 100db/mw]?
> Does the U3 work well with music [i.e. - is there something like a bypass function so it can play music in stereo]?


 
 The Xonar U3 should be able to drive headphones up to 150-Ohm, so 40-Ohm and 42-Ohm should work, but the U3 is not something that will bring out a headphone's best.
 I would think at least using a Schiit Magni or O2 amplifier plugged into the U3 would, would help audio quality.
 Even better, a FiiO E17 or Audioengine D1 optical connected to the U3 would help audio quality.


----------



## PurpleAngel

widdyjudas said:


> If I build a pc later early next year, are there any point for getting an internal soundcard if I already have the U3? Since for pc surround gaming, U3 is basically more than enough.
> Maybe for music benefit, with coaxial/optical output (24/192) from the sound card, rather just from USB (24/96)


 

 Get a Xonar DX or D1 sound card (used, $60) and a Schiit Magni, $99 or O2, $119, headphone amplifier.
 As these head amps have an output impedance of less then 1-Ohm, they are a better option over internal sound card, as the lowest impedance possible (currently) for an sound card is 10-Ohms.


----------



## PurpleAngel

widdyjudas said:


> Guess I'll just use the u3 then. I don't think i can hear much different from coax input 24/192 compared from usb 24/96.
> I'm trying not to stretch my 1500usd budget, so any unnecessary items must go.


 
 The Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $100, comes with a way better DAC feature (CS4398) and a more powerful headphone amplifier, then the U3.


----------



## martin vegas

fegefeuer said:


> Repost from Nameless PC Gaming Thread
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think the next gen consoles have the cheaper wm8768 7.1 wolfson dacs http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8768/‎


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I think the next gen consoles have the cheaper wm8768 7.1 wolfson dacs http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8768/‎


 
  
 It's not bad though.
  
 Still could be considered an entry level audiophile DAC :]


----------



## martin vegas

Some of these boards come with the same type of chips, but I am not 100% sure the exact boards..they don't say what chips they use!


----------



## conquerator2

U3 it is...
 Anything partially dedicated >>> Realtek XXX :/
 That is unusable for HPs... Yuck...
 I'll get a cheapo Audio GD/Fiio/X Dac/amp unit down the line... again 
 The PX5 DSS is very good in that aspect for consoles :]


----------



## Evshrug

widdyjudas said:


> If I build a pc later early next year, are there any point for getting an internal soundcard if I already have the U3? Since for pc surround gaming, U3 is basically more than enough.
> Maybe for music benefit, with coaxial/optical output (24/192) from the soundcard, rather just from USB (24/96)



Or... you could consider an AMD graphics card with the TrueAudio processing hardware built-in. Older games you'd probably still want something like the U3 to add 5.1 processing, but once the PS4 hits the scene and (hopefully) TrueAudio takes off, you wouldn't need a discreet sound processor.

TrueAudio probably should/will get it's own thread.




purpleangel said:


> The Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $100, comes with a way better DAC feature (CS4398) and a more powerful headphone amplifier, then the U3.



Just bought a Sound Blaster Z, today on Amazon they're selling the retail model with red EMI shield for $65 shipped!


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks for all the reply.
 If I want to buy a soundcard, I just want to spend 50usd max. However, if its just benefit to gaming, then I just use the U3. If it also benefit to music, I will consider it.
 I already got my own Amp/Dac, Aune X1 mk2.
 No to Amd gpu, I got experience with amd notorious driver problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I will go with GTX 770


----------



## Evshrug

Then the little cheapie "U3" or "X-Fi Go! Pro" are really the only options in your budget.
The SoundBlaster Omni looks like a cool external PC option too, also with optical output, but lacks console optical input.


----------



## widdyjudas

evshrug said:


> Then the little cheapie "U3" or "X-Fi Go! Pro" are really the only options in your budget.
> The SoundBlaster Omni looks like a cool external PC option too, also with optical output, but lacks console optical input.


 

 If I want sound card, I prefer internal...
 Thanks for the recommendation.


----------



## theseeker

Many thanks for the reviews! This thread helped me out a great deal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

purpleangel said:


> The Creative Sound Blaster Z (SB1500), $100, comes with a way better DAC feature (CS4398) and a more powerful headphone amplifier, then the U3.




If you're gonna bypass the U3's dac and amp, it doesn't matter what is better, since all you're using the U3 for is to add Dolby Headphone to the digital signal. There is no DA conversion or amping in the mix. Pretty sure getting an external optical dac and amp will be much better than that Creative soundcard.


----------



## aserate

aserate said:


> Hey Mad Lust!
> 
> First, thanks for the in-depth guide of this topic.
> I'm very interested in buying a gaming headset (or w/ souncard) so my googling brought me here. Sad to say the choices of headphones/soundcard here are limited, not to mention my budget.
> ...


 
 bump...

 Can anyone help me w/ this? Much appreciated


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't had any experience with the V2 Siberia. It was fairly popular back in the day, so I'm sure it's at least a capable performer for it's price. All I know is that I liked the SLYR for it's price range, if you absolutely need a headset, not a headphone.

You can also just spend $20 or so on a Sportapro, snap off the drivers, and attach it to the cheap Parts Express headband, which equals a KSC35. That is a VERY capable headphone for cheap, and I prefer it over everything else under $100 that I have tried. Look at the KSC35 listing on the guide. There is a video I posted explaining what to do.

Your soundcard I belive has Dolby headphone so you're good there. i believe those Xonar soundcards all have a headphone jack that doubles as an optical out (don't quote me on this) once you set the proper options in the software. Then later on, you can buy a cheap dac with an optical input (Fiio D03k), and a decent amp which will be a better combo than using the soundcard alone, though it's more clutter. I'd personally just save up for a used Fiio E17 or something which is both a dac/amp which you can attach to the Xonar soundcard.


----------



## aserate

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't had any experience with the V2 Siberia. It was fairly popular back in the day, so I'm sure it's at least a capable performer for it's price. All I know is that I liked the SLYR for it's price range, if you absolutely need a headset, not a headphone.
> 
> You can also just spend $20 or so on a Sportapro, snap off the drivers, and attach it to the cheap Parts Express headband, which equals a KSC35. That is a VERY capable headphone for cheap, and I prefer it over everything else under $100 that I have tried. Look at the KSC35 listing on the guide. There is a video I posted explaining what to do.
> 
> Your soundcard I belive has Dolby headphone so you're good there. i believe those Xonar soundcards all have a headphone jack that doubles as an optical out (don't quote me on this) once you set the proper options in the software. Then later on, you can buy a cheap dac with an optical input (Fiio D03k), and a decent amp which will be a better combo than using the soundcard alone, though it's more clutter. I'd personally just save up for a used Fiio E17 or something which is both a dac/amp which you can attach to the Xonar soundcard.


 
 Would have been eyeing on SLYR if it's available here, but it's not  ... Even the Senn PC* series are not available.
 That would be great but I am not into headsets, I am more into *Circumaural headphones *(preferably w/ mic in-line to lessen the clutter)

 Anyway. Do you have suggestion on which xonar D* series is better to pick? (DG, DS, DX, DGX, etc.)
 I am really on to Siberia V2 now cos of the limited choices
 Unfortunatley I don't have the luxury to buy headset + soundcard + dac/amp. And that is quite cluttery i must say.

 My main purpose for buying this is for the positional audio for gaming (mainly bf3/4), if this will help.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't had any experience with the V2 Siberia. It was fairly popular back in the day, so I'm sure it's at least a capable performer for it's price. All I know is that I liked the SLYR for it's price range, if you absolutely need a headset, not a headphone.
> 
> You can also just spend $20 or so on a Sportapro, snap off the drivers, and attach it to the cheap Parts Express headband, which equals a KSC35. That is a VERY capable headphone for cheap, and I prefer it over everything else under $100 that I have tried. Look at the KSC35 listing on the guide. There is a video I posted explaining what to do.
> 
> Your soundcard I belive has Dolby headphone so you're good there. i believe those Xonar soundcards all have a headphone jack that doubles as an optical out (don't quote me on this) once you set the proper options in the software. Then later on, you can buy a cheap dac with an optical input (Fiio D03k), and a decent amp which will be a better combo than using the soundcard alone, though it's more clutter. I'd personally just save up for a used Fiio E17 or something which is both a dac/amp which you can attach to the Xonar soundcard.




Wait, so would any DAC work?
I mean I tried connecting the PX5 receiver to an external DAC via both the 1/8 jack, or toslink but it wouldn't work...
Is that different with a PC?
I am still a bit confused here


----------



## chicolom

conquerator2 said:


> Wait, so would any DAC work?
> I mean I tried connecting the PX5 receiver to an external DAC via both the 1/8 jack, or toslink but it wouldn't work...
> Is that different with a PC?
> I am still a bit confused here


 
  
  
 Since a DAC is a_ digital-to-analog converter_, there can only be *1 *DAC in the audio chain.  You only need to convert the signal to analog once.  The only reason you would use another DAC with something like the U3 is because the U3 isn't actually acting as a DAC if you simply use it to send out a DIGITAL signal.  The U3's only role in that setup is to decode the Dolby Digital 5.1 and then encode it into Dolby Headphone.  That signal still needs to be converted to analog though, so you use a DAC with toslink input afterwards to convert it.
  
 Your PX5's toslink OUT is digital, but it's _probably _just a simple passthrough (check the manual), so there's no benefit in trying to run a signal through it to another device/DAC.  Running a toslink through it is no different than skipping it altogether.  It's just there purely for convenience.
  
 The 1/8" jack on the PX5 is _analog _out.  So it's already gone through digital-to-analog (DAC) conversion. You can't run it to an external DAC, because it's already _analog _and DAC's only take _digital _inputs (otherwise they can't do their D to A job).


----------



## conquerator2

chicolom said:


> Since a DAC is a_ digital-to-analog converter_, there can only be *1 *DAC in the audio chain.  You only need to convert the signal to analog once.  The only reason you would use another DAC with something like the U3 is because the U3 isn't actually acting as a DAC if you simply use it to send out a DIGITAL signal.  The U3's only role in that setup is to decode the Dolby Digital 5.1 and then encode it into Dolby Headphone.  That signal still needs to be converted to analog though, so you use a DAC with toslink input afterwards to convert it.
> 
> Your PX5's toslink OUT is digital, but it's _probably _just a simple passthrough (check the manual), so there's no benefit in trying to run a signal through it to another device/DAC.  Running a toslink through it is no different than skipping it altogether.  It's just there purely for convenience.
> 
> *The 1/8" jack on the PX5 is analog out.  So it's already gone through digital-to-analog (DAC) conversion. You can't run it to an external DAC, because it's already analog and DAC's only take digital inputs (otherwise they can't do their D to A job).*


 
 This part I knew :]
 The rest is new information somewhat.
 Regardless, thanks a ton for the explanation, now I know it's 1 DAC only :]


----------



## Qupie

Hi Mad Lust Envy,
  
 I tried using my Marantz with dolby headphones yesterday and it did really well. Better than my 5.1 system! 
  
 One more question, do you know any way to use a separate microphone on my 360 next to my headset? (iGrado) 
 As I don't own a mixamp, I guess I need to buy a mic, cut off the (3.5 mm) jack plug, and solder a 2.5 mm jack on there? 
 Do you know which part of the mini-jack is used for the mic in the controller?
  
 Or is there an easier solution?


----------



## burritoboy9984

qupie said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I tried using my Marantz with dolby headphones yesterday and it did really well. Better than my 5.1 system!
> 
> ...




You can purchase adapters that take the 3.5 for a mic and mix them in with the 2.5 mic + voice jack for the 360. Sounds like you would be better served making one yourself and saving $ though.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002D41HKS/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1384439427&sr=8-2&pi=SL500


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my custom PX-100-II back from wje. After a few initial hiccups (took me ages to bend the clips to a position that works for me), I can say, it's working well. Even did a Sinegen sweep, and the drivers are matched well from about 8khz, all the way down to the lowest regions of bass that it reaches. As with every headphone, treble section sways left to right, but nothing too problematic. The right driver has slight bass distortion (a very slight rattle) under 35hz, though it's pretty much a non-issue. I'm quite happy overall, and I'll be using these a LOT. It takes me just a little longer to put on next to the 75 and 35s, but we're talking seconds.


----------



## PurpleAngel

aserate said:


> Would have been eyeing on SLYR if it's available here, but it's not  ... Even the Senn PC* series are not available.
> That would be great but I am not into headsets, I am more into *Circumaural headphones *(preferably w/ mic in-line to lessen the clutter)
> Anyway. Do you have suggestion on which Xonar D* series is better to pick? (DG, DS, DX, DGX, etc.)
> I am really on to Siberia V2 now cos of the limited choices
> ...


 
 Where is your location?
 For your budget I would think to get the Xonar DG or DGX sound card and the rest of your budget on headphones.
 Do you have access to the Takstar or Superlux (or Samson) brand of headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

qupie said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I tried using my Marantz with dolby headphones yesterday and it did really well. Better than my 5.1 system!
> 
> ...


 

 So you have an xBox 360?
 I would guess(?) you could plug a USB microphone into the xBox 360 (guessing).


----------



## AverageGamer

I am trying to narrow down a quality headphone (preferably headset) used solely for gaming with a Astro 5.8 "wireless" mixamp on console platforms. I am willing to do the mic-mod on a set as long as the headset is geared toward pin-point accurate directional cuing aka sound-whoring. Any recommendations? I see many FPS gamers lean toward the following and I am hoping to have a little guidance towards my purchase. These are the few I am leaning toward:
  
 - PC360 or PC 363D
 - Audio Technica ATH-AD700
 - AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Signature Reference-Class
 - Sennheiser HD 598
  
 I currently own the 2011 Astro BXR A40's and get told by friends that they here static/muffled voice when I chat. I feel I would be better at sound-whoring with a different headset/headphone with mic-mod then the A40s I currently own. Any suggestion, please?


----------



## aserate

purpleangel said:


> Where is your location?
> For your budget I would think to get the Xonar DG or DGX sound card and the rest of your budget on headphones.
> Do you have access to the Takstar or Superlux (or Samson) brand of headphones?


 
 Philippines good sir. You can check the availability of cans in this site... https://www.tipidpc.com
 If I can afford the DX, would it be worth it over the DG in terms of positional cues in gaming?
 The price of DX here is two times the price of DG.

 Only Takstar PRO80 is available.
 Samson, a few only.
 For the Superlux, there are quite plenty of choices, you can check it yourself... http://www.tipidpc.com/itemsearch.php?sec=s&namekeys=%22Superlux%22
 Which one would you recommend?


----------



## PurpleAngel

aserate said:


> Philippines good sir. You can check the availability of cans in this site... https://www.tipidpc.com
> If I can afford the DX, would it be worth it over the DG in terms of positional cues in gaming?
> The price of DX here is two times the price of DG.
> 
> ...


 

 The DG is Dolby Headphone 5.1 Surround Sound and the DX is Dolby headphone 7.1 Surround Sound.
 I really doubt there is much of a difference for gaming.
 The DX does have a better DAC chip then the DG, but I doubt you would even notice much during gaming.
 With music and movies the difference might be noticeable.
 Because of your over all budget, I would say to get the DG, leaves more cash for headphones.
 If you could get a Creative Labs SB-Z (Sound Blaster Z), like the lower costing bare OEM card, that might be worth it, The SB-Z has the same DAC chip (CS4398) as the Xonar DX, but the SB-Z is better at driving headphones.
  
 I have the Gemini HSR-1000 (which is just a renamed Takstar Pro 80) to me it's a really good (sound quality) low costing headphone, If Sony put their name on it, it would sell for $150.
 The Takestar Pro 80 (Gemini) is a closed headphone
  
 The Samson SR-850 has good feedback as a low costing gaming card, it's semi-open
 (Superlux makes the SR-850)
 The Superlux HD681 is considered a good low costing music headphone, I would assume(?) it would at least be decent at gaming.
  
 Did not see the Takstar Pro 80 or Samson SR-850 on that website, but maybe i did not know were to look.


----------



## aserate

purpleangel said:


> The DG is Dolby Headphone 5.1 Surround Sound and the DX is Dolby headphone 7.1 Surround Sound.
> I really doubt there is much of a difference for gaming.
> The DX does have a better DAC chip then the DG, but I doubt you would even notice much during gaming.
> With music and movies the difference might be noticeable.
> ...


 
 Creative Sound Blaster Z is quite expensive, 4.6 times the cost of DG
  
 Takstar PRO80 is available and is twice the cost of DG, I will take this into consideration.
 Samson SR-850, not available (and this is a headphone not a card right?)
 Superlux HD681 is also available and is very cheap compared to others I must say, costs as much as the DG.
 I'm also eyeing on the Creative Aurvana Live!.

 Now my choices are the: 
 Superlux HD681 - $33 (not sure if this is great for positional cues/gaming)
 Takstar PRO80 - $66 (not a fan of coiled wire but this is just a minor nitpick)
 Creative Aurvana Live! - $80 (is the most expensive of the three but this won't really matter if it's worth the money)
 Additional option:
 Siberia V2 analog - $66 (someone is selling this cheap. Idk this is better but I like it the fact it has already a built in mic)
  
 Question is, which is better of the following?
  
 And do you still have another suggestion of cans? An in-line mic would be* a very big plus* for me.
  
 Thanks for the fast reply


----------



## AverageGamer

averagegamer said:


> I am trying to narrow down a quality headphone (preferably headset) used solely for gaming with a Astro 5.8 "wireless" mixamp on console platforms. I am willing to do the mic-mod on a set as long as the headset is geared toward pin-point accurate directional cuing aka sound-whoring. Any recommendations? I see many FPS gamers lean toward the following and I am hoping to have a little guidance towards my purchase. These are the few I am leaning toward:
> 
> - PC360 or PC 363D
> - Audio Technica ATH-AD700
> ...


 
  
 Can anyone please give me some advice on what they suggest on these or another set of cans?


----------



## Change is Good

Well, looks like the iCAN, itself, is now a dud. The power cable that was sent did not fix the issue.

Avatar Acoustics sent me a new iCAN and I'll be receiving it on Mon/Tue. I just shipped out the defective one but it was nice of them to ship out my replacement before them receiving mine.

A1 customer service


----------



## PurpleAngel

aserate said:


> Creative Sound Blaster Z is quite expensive, 4.6 times the cost of DG
> Takstar PRO80 is available and is twice the cost of DG, I will take this into consideration.
> Samson SR-850, not available (and this is a headphone not a card right?)
> Superlux HD681 is also available and is very cheap compared to others I must say, costs as much as the DG.
> ...


 
 The Samson SR-850 is a headphone, not a sound card.
 I do prefer the Takstar Pro 80s over the CALs (Creative Aurvana Live).
 Not sure what else to recommend.


----------



## JohnClosed

what should you pick for gaming/music
  
 - Creative aurvana Live 1 (New)
 - Creative aurvana Live 2 (New) micro
 - Sennheiser pc 360 (used) micro
 - Sennheiser pc 350 (used) micro
 - Sennheiser HD 555 (used)
 - Sennheiser HD 595 (used)
 - Sennheiser 380 pro (new)


----------



## sobe

johnclosed said:


> what should you pick for gaming/music
> 
> - Creative aurvana Live 1 (New)
> - Creative aurvana Live 2 (New) micro
> ...


 
  
 Depends on your price range. If price is not a factor, do you prefer headset or headphones?


----------



## vsha

Can anyone advise me on which, K702-65th Anniversary or K712, would be better for me? I value a cinematic gaming experience higher than soundwhoring/competitive gaming but am put off by the descriptions of the X1's less detailed bass, and I've narrowed it down to these two.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Buy whichever is cheaper. If they cost the same, get the K712 Pro. From people I trust, they say the K712 is a slight improvement, but sound very similar. I loved the K702 Anniversary for all purposes, and I'm sure the K712 Pro would be similar in that regard.


----------



## vsha

Thanks for your advice, I will go for the K712. Kinda unrelated, but as for a non-gaming amp/DAC to use with them, would the Aune T1 be the best choice? Or is there a better amp/DAC combo I could get for under 200?


----------



## benbenkr

A tip for future PS4 owners who are planning to use headphones.
  
 You can continue to use your Mixamp or DSS without issues, but for chat all you need to do is buy the DX clip-on mic and connect it to the DS4. The PS4 allows chat audio to be mixed into game volume from its setting page.
 Reason I say DX clip-on mic is because the included mono-earpiece that comes with each PS4 sounds very hollow and muffled, so just incase you want a better quality mic without breaking the bank.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet. Can't wait until UPS drops mine off today. Lucklily, I still have my clip on mic, and I can just keep using the Mixamp for virtual surround.


----------



## chicolom

Not audio related, but PS4 related and I thought it was pretty awesome:


----------



## conquerator2

Oh, that vid is pretty cool.


----------



## benbenkr

One more thing, you CAN connect a headphone to the DS4 if you wish. This is for those who whatever reason don't want a Mixamp/DSS or just like plain old stereo.
  
 The DS4 does not have a headphone amp as it is jack is built for IEMs, but it will still drive most 32ohm dynamics pretty fine. The downside here is that you'll be sucking the battery life out of the DS4 even faster than its already barely passable 7 hours.
  
 Oh, you can also control chat volume through the DS4 by holding down the PS button. Don't need to go to the settings page all the time.


----------



## gg99

Excellent thread. I'm a newbie and have been spending the last couple of days (almost literally) reading. I'm looking for some new headphones and could use some advice. I'm primarily a PC FPS gamer. I've got some Turtle Beach X12s that I use with my Xbox 360 and occasionally connect to my PC. They're fine for my Xbox, but I'm looking for something better for my PC where I spend most of my gaming hours.
  
 These headphones will likely be used 80% gaming and 20% music/movies. I saw all of the love for the AD700 but am afraid they'd not sound as full as I'd like. So, I've just about settled on the Samson SR850 for $50 but am concerned that they won't be comfortable when gaming for multiple hours. I've heard of owners swapping out the ear pads with AKG K240 replacements, but at $30-40 that drives the total cost up around $80-90.
  
 So, is the general consensus that the SR850 will require the replacement pads to be comfortable? If so, am I better off spending a little more to get into something like the HD558 (other recommendations welcome)? Priority is 1) positional audio performance and soundstage without fully sacrificing bass and 2) comfort. I'll be driving these with my Creative SB Z card and its integrated headphone amp.
  
 Many thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

gg99 said:


> These headphones will likely be used 80% gaming and 20% music/movies. I saw all of the love for the AD700 but am afraid they'd not sound as full as I'd like. So, I've just about settled on the Samson SR850 for $50 but am concerned that they won't be comfortable when gaming for multiple hours. I've heard of owners swapping out the ear pads with AKG K240 replacements, but at $30-40 that drives the total cost up around $80-90.
> 
> So, is the general consensus that the SR850 will require the replacement pads to be comfortable? If so, am I better off spending a little more to get into something like the HD558 (other recommendations welcome)? Priority is 1) positional audio performance and sound stage without fully sacrificing bass and 2) comfort. I'll be driving these with my Creative SB Z card and its integrated headphone amp.


 
 Here are some ear pads that fit on the SR-850, $16
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251375506165?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


----------



## AverageGamer

bump


----------



## gg99

purpleangel said:


> Here are some ear pads that fit on the SR-850, $16
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251375506165?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


 
  
 Nice find, thanks. For that price it might be worth the risk of a cheap knockoff from China.
  
 I assume it sounds like I've otherwise found a good fit with the SR850 based on my needs? Thanks all.


----------



## AverageGamer

averagegamer said:


> I am trying to narrow down a quality headphone (preferably headset) used solely for gaming with a Astro 5.8 "wireless" mixamp on console platforms. I am willing to do the mic-mod on a set as long as the headset is geared toward pin-point accurate directional cuing aka sound-whoring. Any recommendations? I see many FPS gamers lean toward the following and I am hoping to have a little guidance towards my purchase. These are the few I am leaning toward:
> 
> - PC360 or PC 363D
> - Audio Technica ATH-AD700
> ...


 
 bump


----------



## chicolom

averagegamer said:


> I am trying to narrow down a quality headphone (preferably headset) used solely for gaming with a Astro 5.8 "wireless" mixamp on console platforms. I am willing to do the mic-mod on a set as long as the headset is geared toward pin-point accurate directional cuing aka sound-whoring. Any recommendations? I see many FPS gamers lean toward the following and I am hoping to have a little guidance towards my purchase. These are the few I am leaning toward:
> 
> - PC360 or PC 363D
> - Audio Technica ATH-AD700
> ...


 
  
 Hi,
  
 All these headphones have been discussed _a ton_ on this thread.  There's also reviews on all of them on the front page. 
  
 To reiterate:
 AD700 = Great for pure soundwhoring, but treble-centric and light on bass which means it's not as immersive for single player gaming.  The other headphones listed are all more weighty and immersive sounding, but they will not sound-whore any better than the AD700.
 PC360 = More balanced sounding than AD700, with a slightly smaller soundstage.  Has a mic.
 PC363 = Special Edition PC360.
 HD598 = Almost the same as the PC360, but a tad lighter and clearer sounding.
 Q701 = The most "audiophile" of the bunch, and also the most weighty sounding (more immersive).  Has the most bass (but still by no means bass-heavy).
  
 If you want more info, I'd suggest a search through the thread (using the search button) as they get discussed pretty much every week.  There's really nothing new to say about them.


----------



## kman1211

vsha said:


> Can anyone advise me on which, K702-65th Anniversary or K712, would be better for me? I value a cinematic gaming experience higher than soundwhoring/competitive gaming but am put off by the descriptions of the X1's less detailed bass, and I've narrowed it down to these two.


 

 The K712 is warmer, has more bass presence than the Annies, it's also not as dark sounding as the Annies, the K712 is the more enjoyable one to listen to, so of the two, I would say the K712 is more for your tastes. I haven't heard the Aune T1, so I can't say.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

GAWDAMMIT UPS, HURRY UP WITH MY PS4! I'm so hyped, I can't sleep, I have to work in 9 hours...and I don't even have a damn game yet (I'm gonna try going all digital from now on)...

ROAR


----------



## JohnClosed

Thanks for the reply , i was thinking about 100 euros max , means 120-130 dollars


----------



## chicolom

kman1211 said:


> *The K712 is warmer*, has more bass presence than the Annies, *it's also not as dark* sounding as the Annies, the K712 is the more enjoyable one to listen to, so of the two, I would say the K712 is more for your tastes. I haven't heard the Aune T1, so I can't say.


 
  





  
 I say the K712 is _both _slightly warmer _and _slightly darker than the Anniversary (including the treble itself). 
  
 Not sure how the K712 could be both warmer and bassier yet also less dark unless it was V-shaped....


----------



## kman1211

averagegamer said:


> I am trying to narrow down a quality headphone (preferably headset) used solely for gaming with a Astro 5.8 "wireless" mixamp on console platforms. I am willing to do the mic-mod on a set as long as the headset is geared toward pin-point accurate directional cuing aka sound-whoring. Any recommendations? I see many FPS gamers lean toward the following and I am hoping to have a little guidance towards my purchase. These are the few I am leaning toward:
> 
> - PC360 or PC 363D
> - Audio Technica ATH-AD700
> ...


 

 I would also consider the AKG K612 Pro, another great gaming headphone. It has very accurate imaging and has a very balanced sound. It's going to be a bit similar to how the Q701 sounds, but a bit more intimate and a thicker sound, and also more balanced and natural sounding. You are going to get a tad less detail and isn't quite as precise sounding, but I find it images more accurately than the Q701.


----------



## kman1211

chicolom said:


> I say the K712 is _both _slightly warmer _and _slightly darker than the Anniversary (including the treble itself).
> 
> Not sure how the K712 could be both warmer and bassier yet also less dark unless it was V-shaped....


 

 I found the Annies a tad darker when I heard them. Maybe I am mistaking something else for brightness or I hear treble a bit differently. The treble could be elevated more in a region I'm sensitive to, thus it coming off as a bit brighter. There are many explanations for that. I'm extremely sensitive to certain regions in the treble region. That's one reason you get such variations in how people hear certain headphones.


----------



## chicolom

No worries. 
  
 You're allowed to hear differently.


----------



## Chubtoad

I'm still thinking of picking up a pair of X1's to go with my Annies.


----------



## conquerator2

U3 - 900X - 0_0
 Pretty good, very similar to the Clip+, just a bit more punch.
 Either the amp is not as bad or the AT cans are not really demanding.
 Compared to the Realtek output it's night and day...


----------



## Change is Good

The hypes is real, MLE. I picked one up last night and am just now waking up.

It takes FOREVER to download these games completely. But it is nice you can play the campaign while it does. I got nbd 2k14 and BF4 and both games take up atleast 35gb of space.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> It takes FOREVER to download these games completely. But it is nice you can play the campaign while it does. I got nbd 2k14 and BF4 and both games take up atleast *35gb of space.*


 
  
  




  
 I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Blu-Rays hold ~50 gigs, but still.  Were any PS3 game downloads ever that big?  I'm guessing multiplatforms were all around ~7gb but did any PS3 exclusives ever get that big in size?
  
 I'm sure ISPs will love these game downloads.


----------



## conquerator2

chicolom said:


> I guess I shouldn't be surprised since Blu-Rays hold ~50 gigs, but still.  Were any PS3 game downloads ever that big?  I'm guessing multiplatforms were all around ~7gb but did any PS3 exclusives ever get that big in size?
> 
> I'm sure ISPs will love these game downloads.


 
 Not that big. But Killzone 3 had 30GBs I think and The Last of Us even had over 4TB at one point [!!!!, but all working data obviously]. God of War was also huge....
 Exclusive games had tens of GBs, third parties noticeably less, usually <10GB.
  
 But yeah, next gen, higher level textures, resolutions,... I can't even imagine how long that'd take me to download 0_0 I am happy for hard copies :]


----------



## chicolom

Well, I'm really excited for the boost in asset quality now that next-gen is finally arriving. 
  
 Hopefully devs will up the audio quality as well and take advantage of that AMD "TrueAudio" tech.


----------



## SaLX

MLE.. did Audio Technica respond re you testing samples of their new gaming headsets?


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> So you have an xBox 360?
> I would guess(?) you could plug a USB microphone into the xBox 360 (guessing).



The only mic inputs on an Xbox360 are the proprietary wireless used for Microsoft's earpieces (and that one poorly regarded Tritton), and the 2.5mm jack built-in to the controller. Almost everyone has had success using a cheap 2.5mm-to-3.5mm adapter into the controller to plug in an external mic. A cheap ($2-$3) lapel mic or ModMic have really proven themselves as being the most practical options with good quality.

USB is only for power, controllers, or storage drives 16GB or less. Unfortunately 



averagegamer said:


> bump






averagegamer said:


> bump




You are right where Mad Lust Envy was just before he started this thread. Read the intro. Then read some of the reviews. I'm pretty sure people have been mostly ignoring you because your questions are answered on the first page... That's why the guide was written. Mad's not paid to do this... Can you imagine personalizing and re-reviewing headphones for every stranger that wanders in here? It would feel like work! Unpaid! So, instead, Mad has clearly made his opinions known on that guide, so people, who are curious like he was, have the info to make their own choices. If you keep bumping a thread instead of reading and thinking, you're just going to annoy the community that is in here.

Read the guide [the first post], draw your own conclusions, stop posting unless you have something to contribute. Seems fair, no?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but that was the Aussie branch who couldn't do anything for me. I'll contact the usa branch...eventually. lol.



So got my PS4, and maaaaan is it crippled atm. Took an eternity just to set up some settings that needed an internet connection. Bought Killzone off the Amazon digital downloads, and the ps4 states I have 99 hours until it's completed. Even downloading Amazon Instant Video took an eternity. I hope by the time I come home tomorrow morning, it's running somewhat ok.

Some settings are either missing, or takes Indiana Jones to find. Hell, to turn off remote play on my Vita, I literally have to turn on the ps4 controller so that the Vita gets kicked off. It's not intuitive. Something as simple as changing the profile avatar is nowhere to be found.

I hope it's just because psn is so messed up on ps4 atm.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, but that was the Aussie branch who couldn't do anything for me. I'll contact the usa branch...eventually. lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Navigating through the menus just takes some getting used to, but I get what you mean.
  
 As far as download times... they're long but not 99 hours long; at least not for me. My internet has 30mbps download speed; just to give an idea of what I'm working with. NBA 2K14 downloaded while my friend and I played a quick match... so about 1 hour or so for 46gb. And I let BF4 download overnight... so no idea there.


----------



## Evshrug

^launch popularity?
If I wasn't trying to get through a game backlog, I'd be right there with ya. I'll probably get most of my games on disc... Crazy that a disc can store 50 GB h34r:
I'm pretty confident that after the initial activation frenzy, you'll have a better experience.

If I had a following like you do... I'd do a write-up for the guide. But lately, I haven't been producing much. Who knows, maybe I'll get something done on thanksgiving, but once Black Friday hits I'll probably disappear for a while, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> ^launch popularity?
> If I wasn't trying to get through a game backlog, I'd be right there with ya. I'll probably get most of my games on disc... Crazy that a disc can store 50 GB
> 
> 
> ...


 
  




  
 I'm disappearing after my last surprise comes in on Tuesday. I had to return an IEM that I bought on a impulse, and exchanged it for something I've been wanting to try for a while (also to avoid a restocking fee). It's still mid-fi, and won't be too surprising to some in here if they're familiar with what I already have... and like.
  
 As a result, I might have a couple goodies for sale, soon...


----------



## Evshrug

^KSC 35?

I hope to read some 1540 impressions from someone I'm familiar with, used to similar headphones. Still rockin your K712's? I want to play with mine, but I know if I start now I'll be exhausted in the morning 
I still can't get myself to sell my Q701 though, lol.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> I'm disappearing after my last surprise comes in on Tuesday. I had to return an IEM that I bought on a impulse, and exchanged it for something I've been wanting to try for a while (also to avoid a restocking fee). It's still mid-fi, and won't be too surprising to some in here if they're familiar with what I already have... and like.


 
  
 Hmm...
  




  
 Quote: 





evshrug said:


> ^launch popularity?
> If I wasn't trying to get through a game backlog, I'd be right there with ya. I'll probably get most of my games on disc... Crazy that a disc can store 50 GB


 
  
 Yeah, I still have a "current-gen" backlog of about 10+ games I need to get through.
  
 I think I'll get games on disc when possible too.  I like having a physical collection of cases and box art.  Plus transporting 40gb games around isn't really possible without that convenient blu-ray disc.  A 40gb download game seems highly unportable.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> ^KSC 35?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea I'm still rockin my K712s, very often, though what I have coming in may replace them... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 As for the 1540, here are some that I posted in the 1540 thread, for now...
  


> Midrange and treble seems linear but not recessed at all. The bass has great impact without overshadowing the rest of the frequency... making it a rather enjoyable fun headphone. Soundstage is pretty wide for it to be a closed headphone... and is actually one of the largest I've heard among that category falling slightly behind the HP100.


 
  


> Man, do these pack some punch compared to what I'm used to. I had already shipped out the MDs before the 1540 arrived; so I couldn't do any A/B-ing. The 1540 has a significant bass emphasis, compared to the MD 3.2, while still maintaining great detail and extension without hampering it's frequency. Nothing is recessed... so no need to think these are U-Shaped by any means.
> 
> The K712 PRO is very similar to the MD in sound signature (slight differences being large soundstage, slightly less bass and slightly more upper mids). So, in the end, I am appreciating the 1540 a little more because it has an extremely "fun" sound signature to compliment the reference sound of the K712. Not that the MD 3.2 wasn't fun or a great compliment, itself, it was just too similar and I always felt the need for a little more bass, sometimes.


 
  


> Well, I ordered a pair of Alpha pads and can say the 1540 responds very well to them while adding the extra isolation I needed. The changes in sound is nothing too dramatic, but it does tighten the bass up slightly.
> 
> Getting a good fit was a bishh, though, as the angle of the pads along with the angle of the drivers were not cooperating with each other. I finally just kept turning the pads until I found a decent fit by having the angles facing the top of the headphones. It's a tight fit, but still really comfy and with a better sound to it's low end, IMO.


----------



## Evshrug

^ Cool info, thanks. Not "my" kind of headphone, but sounds like something worth suggesting to others. Comparing it directly to the M-100 would be interesting... maybe I'm a hypocrite for saying it's not my kind of headphone when I own an M-100, LOL. Sometimes it's fun to have variety.

Also... Even looking through your post history I can't guess what headphone you're going for now with any certainty. HE-500? I've just not been on Head-Fi as much, too much work (and now Tiny Death Star, I only just managed to kick my Guardian Cross addiction and only two weeks later picked up a new iOS addiction!).

*Chico,*
I'm in line with everything you just said.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> ^ Cool info, thanks. Not "my" kind of headphone, but sounds like something worth suggesting to others. Comparing it directly to the M-100 would be interesting... maybe I'm a hypocrite for saying it's not my kind of headphone when I own an M-100, LOL. Sometimes it's fun to have variety.
> 
> *Also... Even looking through your post history I can't guess what headphone you're going for now with any certainty. HE-500?* I've just not been on Head-Fi as much, too much work (and now Tiny Death Star, I only just managed to kick my Guardian Cross addiction and only two weeks later picked up a new iOS addiction!).


 
  
 If the HE-500 was available where I had to do the exchange it would have definitely been my choice. I will say that I almost bit on an HE-500 when Razordog had given me an offer I almost could not refuse, but did...
  
 As for what I'm getting, you will soon see my friend lol...


----------



## Evshrug

*starts digging out the binoculars*
...
Eh.
*puts on K712 and Batman AC*
/me weak willed.
*eats extra-peanutbutter Nutty Bar"


----------



## Change is Good

*sends you a pm*
 ...
 *puts on the K712 and BF4 on PS4*
 ...
 *grabs a slimjim and a soda*


----------



## vsha

Is there any way I could reap the benefits of a Xonar DG's Dolby Headphone while using the desktop DAC/amp instead of the soundcard for processing like this?
  
 Xonar DG -> DAC/amp -> headphones


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have been saying how to do that in basically every single mention of Xonars here.

In the software, there is an option to change the audio out to spdif (optical out). Also to change the signal to PCM. Enable dolby headphone, and voila, digital out with dolby headphone, for your dac/amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my PS4 live streaming on twitch.

http://www.twitch.tv/madlustenvy

BTW, my name on screen is Sin_Crimson, not MLE.


----------



## henhowc

For the PS4 owners...

 My Skullcandy PLYR1s work but I'm not sure if I'm configuring them properly.
  
 I have my Audio Output Settings set to:
 Primary Output Port: Digital Out (Optical)
 Audio Format (Priority): LPCM
  
 When I try and play a movie in Netflix that supports 5.1, Netflix only allows me to select Stereo instead DD 5.1 Plus. Changing Primary Output Port to HDMI brings back the 5.1 audio option in Netflix. But this setting goes against the setup I had on the PS3. I also found instructions on the Astro forums also stating that you should be explicitly setting this to optical.
  
 I noticed that my receiver lights up with LPCM and PL II (Dolby Pro Logic II) when using optical setting versus just LPCM when using the HDMI one. I guess multi-audio output is just the default now versus a toggle on PS3?
  
 So yeah I'm confused...which settings should I be using for my headsets to get proper the proper virtual 5.1?


----------



## Evshrug

LPCM only carries stereo, select Dolby Digital Live (DDL) or something to get surround. PL II is fake surround up-sampled from stereo. Can't believe everything you read on the web, eh? Try changing that LPCM to DDL or see if you get more options once you select PCM (some compression needed to fit 5.1 channels through optical).




mad lust envy said:


> So I got my PS4 live streaming on twitch.
> 
> http://www.twitch.tv/madlustenvy
> 
> BTW, my name on screen is Sin_Crimson, not MLE.



Ps4 looks nice. Funny thing though, the graphics on my iPhone 5S look just as good! When I'm streaming


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PS4 settings:

Primary Output Port : DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
Audio format (Priority): Bitstream (Dolby)

LPCM = 2 channel stereo, never choose this for virtual surround devices.

That's how to get external devices like the Mixamp to work properly. Just tested Killzone (although horribly, lol), and the surround cues were excellent off the MA900/Mixamp.

Yeah Evs, the stream was pretty good quality, from what I could see. Better than when I briefly owned the Hauppauge DVR BS.

The PS Vita remote Play worked very well too. Not good for shooters, but Contrast and Resogun played very well. Very good streaming quality too.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> PS4 settings:
> 
> Primary Output Port : DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
> Audio format (Priority): Bitstream (Dolby)
> ...


 
 I am waiting to see which consoles the best..then getting the best one!


----------



## henhowc

mad lust envy said:


> PS4 settings:
> 
> Primary Output Port : DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
> Audio format (Priority): Bitstream (Dolby)
> ...


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> LPCM only carries stereo, select Dolby Digital Live (DDL) or something to get surround. PL II is fake surround up-sampled from stereo. Can't believe everything you read on the web, eh? Try changing that LPCM to DDL or see if you get more options once you select PCM (some compression needed to fit 5.1 channels through optical).
> Ps4 looks nice. Funny thing though, the graphics on my iPhone 5S look just as good! When I'm streaming


 
  
 I have it set on Optical and Bitstream (dolby) but what is throwing me off is that netflix is only giving me the stereo selection option and not the DD 5.1+. On the PS3 I could toggle between the two using these same settings. Should I just be ignoring this in netflix? Are any of you guys able to reproduce that on your sets? Hopefully I'm making some sense.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't use netflix, so I can't say. In either case, even on Amazon Instant Video app, I don't think I was getting Dolby Headphone. I think it was stereo. Don't quote me on that though.

Right now, nothing seems to be working quite right. The Amazon Instant Video app was taking an eternity to load a video, and when it did, it was horrible quality. I ended up just going back to my ps3 for my video stuff.

BLURAY playback will have Dolby Digital/Headphone. Like the ps3, gotta go to the options while watching a bluray, and change the audio to Bitstream Mix. Thatvwas a relief, though fkr some reason it sounds a bit distorted and boomy. I have to double check later.


----------



## Params7

Anybody having the issue with their PS4 where audio leaks/echoes out of HDMI even after Optical out is selected?
  
 Also, very noob question but I'm trying to figure out how to hook my external mic and voice chat working with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and PS4. My mixamp's USB is connected to my laptop, optical in from PS4. Where should I plug in the external mic and what options do I need to select from PS4 so the mixamp is able to differentiate between audio and chat streams?


----------



## PurpleAngel

params7 said:


> Anybody having the issue with their PS4 where audio leaks/echoes out of HDMI even after Optical out is selected?
> 
> Also, very noob question but I'm trying to figure out how to hook my external mic and voice chat working with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and PS4. My mixamp's USB is connected to my laptop, optical in from PS4. Where should I plug in the external mic and what options do I need to select from PS4 so the mixamp is able to differentiate between audio and chat streams?


 

 Dumb question.
 Why can't you plug the USB into the PS4?


----------



## Params7

I just never found a 6 feet long USB cable to connect it, lol. But will I need to connect it to PS4 to get the game/voice slider to work on the mixamp?
  
 As for the external mic, I'll need to purchase a Y adapter for the external mic input to the mixamp right?


----------



## henhowc

params7 said:


> I just never found a 6 feet long USB cable to connect it, lol. But will I need to connect it to PS4 to get the game/voice slider to work on the mixamp?
> 
> As for the external mic, I'll need to purchase a Y adapter for the external mic input to the mixamp right?


 
 I'm pretty sure your mixamp needs to be powered by the ps4 for voice chat to work. At least that's how it works on the A40s and my PLYR1. Also what do you mean by HDMI leaking?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

params7 said:


> Anybody having the issue with their PS4 where audio leaks/echoes out of HDMI even after Optical out is selected?
> 
> Also, very noob question but I'm trying to figure out how to hook my external mic and voice chat working with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and PS4. My mixamp's USB is connected to my laptop, optical in from PS4. Where should I plug in the external mic and what options do I need to select from PS4 so the mixamp is able to differentiate between audio and chat streams?





Like the PS3, even if optical is the priority, all other audio outputs will still have PCM 2 channel audio. Just mute your tv.

The external mic can go directly to the ps4 controller. I don't know exactly how the Mixamp's usb chat works with the ps4 yet, since I didn't go that route, since my MixampIis pretty far away, and my DX mic's cable doesn't reach.


----------



## spooky655

I currently have Klipsch S4 In-Ear Headphones. They don't seem to be all that great for gaming, but could someone rate the competitive capabilities of them out of 10? I am trying to decide if the Sony MA900s are enough better to be worth the purchase. An idea of the improvement for music would also be helpful.


----------



## Slog

A few questions for anyone who can assist me.
  
  
 1. Does anyone have any experience with the QPAD 1339s?

http://www.corporate.qpad.se/modules/news/article.php?storyid=221
  
 I've read that they are pretty much a 32 ohm DT770 with a boom mic.
  
 BUT, in the review of the DT770s on the first page, it was stated that they were too bass heavy.
  
 2. Could these be any different? As in "the best closed headphone for competitive use."
  
 3. And on top of all that, what sort of sound card setup would be ideal to power these things if I decide to purchase?
  
  
 I would greatly appreciate any help thrown my way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No in ear is gonna compare to over ears, especially open ones.

The 770 reviewed is the Pro 80 and 600ohm, not the 32ohm. The proplem with the 770s, is that they're inconsistent with either being bass light or bass heavy (the 80ohm is always bass heavy however).


----------



## miceblue

You can say that again. I tried my friend's modded Logitech UE900 the other day. I can not believe those retail for 400 USD.....good gawd. D:
When I was listening to them, I thought they weren't bad for $200, which is what I thought the price was. Words can't describe how disappointed I was when I heard of its price.

I'll stick with the SE215 despite its rolled-off treble and "soft" overall sound signature, or my surprisingly decent $25 Sennheiser CX-300 for earphones. >.>

Money towards full-sized headphones suddenly seem "worth it" to me after that experience.


----------



## PurpleAngel

slog said:


> 1. Does anyone have any experience with the QPAD 1339s?
> http://www.corporate.qpad.se/modules/news/article.php?storyid=221
> I've read that they are pretty much a 32 ohm DT770 with a boom mic.
> BUT, in the review of the DT770s on the first page, it was stated that they were too bass heavy.
> ...


 
 Currently the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z (SB1500, retail box), for $100, seems to be a good value for what your get.
 The SB1500 comes with a shielding over part of the card and also comes with a microphone.
  
 Does it matter if the headphones are open or closed?


----------



## martin vegas

spooky655 said:


> I currently have Klipsch S4 In-Ear Headphones. They don't seem to be all that great for gaming, but could someone rate the competitive capabilities of them out of 10? I am trying to decide if the Sony MA900s are enough better to be worth the purchase. An idea of the improvement for music would also be helpful.


 
Get a sennheiser headset like the u320!


----------



## Hailin

I am using MA900/modmic to 2011 mixamp on my PS4. Does anyone have issues with Voice Chat not being loud enough? I have to max out the mixamps volume introducing hiss in my listening and have the voice knob turned all the way to almost max to hear anyone. If I even bump towards game volume I get completely deafened. I am wondering is anyone else having this problem?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have the same setup, but using a DX mic instead of the modmic. I can't say, as I have my E17 attached to the Mixamp for more power to the MA900. I don't wanna tweak the volume on my Mixamp, since it distorts so much when I adjust it. I have left it at 70% with the game/voice knob entirely on game. Been that way for months. Sure, I can't hear chat through my MA900, but haven't had a need to yet. I may pick up Ghosts, since games are pretty slim pickings right now, and I don't think I'll be enjoying KZ for too long.


----------



## spooky655

How loud are open headphones? Loud enough to be picked up by modmic?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, unless you're shattering your ear drums. Never heard an open headphone loud enough to be picked up by any mic. My MA900 is vented and as open as it gets, and the mic doesn't pick it up. My mic does pick up the fan though...


----------



## conquerator2

A condenser mic might but again, it's unlikely


----------



## spooky655

Do these headphones tend to go on sale online on Black Friday?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I',m sure you'd find some. Headphones go on sale a lot throughout the year.


BTW guys, interesting... the Xonar U3 works on the PS4. No way to adjust it's settings, and functions basically the same as the PS4's controller audio jack, and any other standard USB adapter with the only options being available being the PS4's volume control. It'd be very interesting if I could get it to do DH off the USB feed, though it's doubtful.

This would've been useful on the PS3 (maybe it did work, but no one tested it?)






I basically just volunteered, didn't I?


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I',m sure you'd find some. Headphones go on sale a lot throughout the year.
> 
> 
> BTW guys, interesting... the Xonar U3 works on the PS4. No way to adjust it's settings, and functions basically the same as the PS4's controller audio jack, and any other standard USB adapter with the only options being available being the PS4's volume control. It'd be very interesting if I could get it to do DH off the USB feed, though it's doubtful.
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm, I thought I read somewhere that PS3 USB ports couldn't transfer audio... strange.
 Anyway, nice find with the PS4 :]
 Do try to experiment with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, doesn't seem to be any way to make the U3 convert to Dolby, though I'm sure USB audio is probably limited to stereo.

edit: So the U3 registers as usb mic adapter, so that's good to know.


----------



## spooky655

Any chance you've listen to Dark Side of the Moon on the MA900s? It is one of my listening pleasures, so I'm curious to know how it would sound.


----------



## Chubtoad

Does nobody else find it slightly disturbing to keep seeing Reggie's face on the top right corner of the screen every time they come to this thread?
  
 It's like he is haunting me now LOL


----------



## kenshinhimura

i thnk its hilarious, but thats me.


----------



## Evshrug

spooky655 said:


> How loud are open headphones? Loud enough to be picked up by modmic?



Nah. For a real-world demo about how much different headphones leak sound, watch my YouTube video. I posted it about 3 pages back, and it's also linked on the last page of my Journal thread in my signature.

Mic has never picked up my game audio with any of my headphones, even the KSC 75's.




mad lust envy said:


> I',m sure you'd find some. Headphones go on sale a lot throughout the year.
> 
> BTW guys, interesting... the Xonar U3 works on the PS4. No way to adjust it's settings, and functions basically the same as the PS4's controller audio jack, and any other standard USB adapter with the only options being available being the PS4's volume control. It'd be very interesting if I could get it to do DH off the USB feed, though it's doubtful.
> 
> ...




Yes, you did. Keep testing!
I missed your stream today. Can't watch it inside the Twitch.TV mobile app :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Meh, it was just more testing. I don't plan to stream anything but online play. I'm still on the KZ campaign though I think I'm pretty much done.


----------



## Evshrug

Eh... But it was fun to see you having fun and going "what the!?!??"


----------



## AxelCloris

When do you normally stream MLE? It always seems to be inactive whenever I check in.


----------



## Evshrug

Seemed like 9-10 am or so


----------



## AxelCloris

Ah, boo. So after his job, the same time I'm just waking up for mine


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll probably stream the most on Sun-Mon, my days off. As Evs said, probably between 8am-1pm EST every day.

Played some KZ online today, and boy... just not my type of game. I guess I really am mostly a CoD guy in terms of online.


----------



## pervysage

chubtoad said:


> I had the exact same issues as you with regards to mouse noise. It's from a mixture of CPU/GPU/general EMI/RF interference, I had it regardless of whether or not I had my headphones/amp plugged into my PC or not. (my consoles/PC share the same area.)
> 
> Buy one of these - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=108&cp_id=10844&cs_id=1084402&p_id=6909&seq=1&format=2
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome! I got that Monoprice ground noise isolator and it did the trick! No more buzzing noise or high pitched squealing from moving my mouse.... WELL worth the 7 bucks that it costs, hehe. Also turned out that connecting the Mixamp directly to a power outlet using a USB charger isn't the greatest idea. This created a unbearably loud buzzing sound. Connected the Mixamp back to my computer's USB for power and voila, silence! (except for the inherent hiss of the Mixamp which you can't really get rid of).
  
 However, the hiss doesn't bother me at all as it's only apparent when you jack the volume pot up really high. At normal listening levels for gaming, I don't hear the hiss of the Mixamp at all, so no biggie. Just glad to have gotten rid of that buzzing sound and feedback from my PC which I could hear all the time.
  
 Anyone with a similar problem should give this little device a try!


----------



## LiamIV

Hey Mad Lust, this question is for you. Love the thread, you should be paid to do these things!
  
 After going through it many times, I picked out these top headphones for my needs, and now I just need to pick one:
  
 BeyerDynamic DT770s
 BeyerDynamic DT990
 Ultrasone 900
 Ultrasone 2900
 Philips Fidelio X1
 Nuforce HP-800
 HiFiMan HE-400 and HE-4
  
 The things I am going for are:

Deep, powerful, rumbling bass when bass is needed (such as an explosion, building falling over in BF4, etc.) but won't overpower and be too present when you don't want it to be (such as when firing a gun)
A huge, deep soundstage with good positioning precision so you can pinpoint where those footsteps are and where a sniper is firing from in the distance
 Budget is up to $550
 Location: AUS
 I hope you can help me out!
  
 Regards,
 Liam


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can't expect a huge, deep soundstage with deep, powerful bass. There are always tradeoffs. A good middle ground is the Fidelio X1, but if you want deeper bass, get the HE-400 with velour pads (buy the velour pads off the Head-Direct website).

I do hope you have the right amping, Mixamp, etc. Seriously, I'd start with the Fidelio X1, as that may be all the headphone you will ever need, and better gaming performer than the HE-400.

Ok, so I just bought CoD ghosts digitally. Probably start streaming it tomorrow.


----------



## Chubtoad

pervysage said:


> Awesome! I got that Monoprice ground noise isolator and it did the trick! No more buzzing noise or high pitched squealing from moving my mouse.... WELL worth the 7 bucks that it costs, hehe. Also turned out that connecting the Mixamp directly to a power outlet using a USB charger isn't the greatest idea. This created a unbearably loud buzzing sound. Connected the Mixamp back to my computer's USB for power and voila, silence! (except for the inherent hiss of the Mixamp which you can't really get rid of).
> 
> However, the hiss doesn't bother me at all as it's only apparent when you jack the volume pot up really high. At normal listening levels for gaming, I don't hear the hiss of the Mixamp at all, so no biggie. Just glad to have gotten rid of that buzzing sound and feedback from my PC which I could hear all the time.
> 
> Anyone with a similar problem should give this little device a try!


 
 glad it worked for you.


----------



## chicolom

liamiv said:


> Hey Mad Lust, this question is for you. Love the thread, you should be paid to do these things!
> 
> After going through it many times, I picked out these top headphones for my needs, and now I just need to pick one:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I think all those headphones are already reviewed on the front page.
  
 Powerful bass and large soundstages aren't often found together in the same headphone, but I'd say the* Denon D7000/Fostex THx00* are one of the few that can pull it off.  That's a bit out of your price range, so a cheaper alternative would be the *Fidelio X1*, which has similar strengths of balancing out fun low bass and a large soundstage simultaneously. 
  
 Hifimans have pretty good  bass (linear), but with a slightly smaller soundstage (more medium-large than large).  Ultrasones are sort of the same, but I think with more of mid-bass focus.  DT990s are OK, but the X1 does what they do better (and the DT990s are too cold and V-shaped IMO).
  
 I'd get the X1s.


----------



## chicolom

Wouldn't online multiplayer match + simultaneous live streaming = epic lag fest?


----------



## spooky655

spooky655 said:


> Any chance you've listen to Dark Side of the Moon on the MA900s? It is one of my listening pleasures, so I'm curious to know how it would sound.


 
 Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## Evshrug

^download vs upload. He probably wouldn't get host, but it ought to be doable with FiOS or something. I thought that the PS4 could record then upload later? Still, it was fun commenting and have Mad reply live in the stream. Lol almost as soon as I started following the stream, he said "Heeeeey Evs!" and then "Surround seems pretty good in Dolby headphone with this game, probably would work well for THX too." (Tho honestly I was more interested in the PS4 and just seeing how he plays a game, he's a good shot and it's just kinda fun to watch someone you just talk to in action).


Mad, I'd be interested in your view on Ghosts. Amazon reviews are hating on the popular franchise, but everyone I've actually talked with in person actually likes it after a few games adjustment. CoD4 with stopping power Is where I've been playing for years... so reports of powerful guns killing in two or one shots sounds normal to me, and I like the idea that the maps have multiple routes and fewer choke points. Another thing that people have "hated" but sounds like a good highlight to me is the de-emphasis on air suppression kill streaks, I always thought that the relentless airborne death took away from the regular gunplay. A mode like Black Ops' sticks and stones would be really addictive for me...


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> ^download vs upload. He probably wouldn't get host, but it ought to be doable with FiOS or something. I thought that the PS4 could record then upload later?


 
  
  
 Hmm...my connection lags especially hard whenever someone is uploading on the network. 
  
 Regardless, the record-then-upload-later option sounds much better for everyone involved in the match (lag-wise).


----------



## Evshrug

spooky655 said:


> Can anyone comment on this?



Well I didn't demo that album on the MA900 while I borrowed it, but I love it on my Q701's (and thus also on my K712) because it reveals all the funny little details like the beginning of "Money" and yet really rocks out when the album picks up. I think that, from what I did hear on the MA900, it would be a little bit more laid back (but easier to listen to for a longer time) and do a great job letting you contemplate the vocals and separating out the different instruments. Another general strength of the MA900 is invoking a sense of space... but DSOTM already separates sounds a lot by panning them from ear-to-ear or putting a sound only in one ear, so it might be hard with that album to picture/imagine a room with an instrument here, there, and there. If you're currently listening with a pair of earbuds or average headphone, the MA900 has all the chops to blow you away.


----------



## spooky655

I usually listen to music with Klipsch S4 IEMs, but I do have a Harman Kardon AVR-146 receiver with a 5.1 speaker setup. I'm hoping to somewhat replicate that experience on my desktop computer.


----------



## Slog

purpleangel said:


> Currently the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z (SB1500, retail box), for $100, seems to be a good value for what your get.
> The SB1500 comes with a shielding over part of the card and also comes with a microphone.
> 
> Does it matter if the headphones are open or closed?


 
 Thanks for your response.
  
 It does matter to me that the headphones are closed, as I plan on attending several LAN events in the future with my setup.
  
 I can't have outside noise getting in the way.
  
 Would that Sound Blaster Z be ideal for such low ohm headphones?
  
  
 I'm basically looking for a setup similar to what *LiamIV *just described above.
  
 I need highly competitive directional sound, but I'd like a rich full sound for when I'm relaxing and playing RPGs and such.


----------



## vsha

Has anyone tried the Q701 with the bass port mod _and_ Annie pads at the same time? How did it sound?


----------



## LiamIV

mad lust envy said:


> You can't expect a huge, deep soundstage with deep, powerful bass. There are always tradeoffs. A good middle ground is the Fidelio X1, but if you want deeper bass, get the HE-400 with velour pads (buy the velour pads off the Head-Direct website).
> 
> I do hope you have the right amping, Mixamp, etc. Seriously, I'd start with the Fidelio X1, as that may be all the headphone you will ever need, and better gaming performer than the HE-400.
> 
> Ok, so I just bought CoD ghosts digitally. Probably start streaming it tomorrow.


 
 I ordered the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013, and in your review you said that the Fidelio should work fine just with the Mixamp. 
  
 Thanks so much for your help! Figured it's best to just go straight to an expert for this information. Ended up going with the Philips. 
  
 Thanks again, 
 Liam


----------



## Evshrug

slog said:


> Thanks for your response.
> 
> It does matter to me that the headphones are closed, as I plan on attending several LAN events in the future with my setup.
> 
> ...



If you want the best of both, you're gonna need two headphones... Sorry to break it to ya. 

The MA900 would be a great choice for relaxing with a full body, but for a closed can you'd probably be best served by something with a fair bit of treble sparkle (especially in a loud environ) and air, so a bit less bass (which closed headphones naturally/usually have more bass). I'm not quite sure which closed can to recommend, I haven't often been in that situation... from my experience though, if you really need to shut out the outside world and focus on the audio, nothing beats the abilities of an IEM. Joker has a huge thread of IEM reviews, so look there for one with good treble extension and pretty neutral bass (or see if you'd be allowed to EQ down the bass a bit). For a closed headphone, *I* have a V-MODA M-100, which has actually a good sense of positional imaging IMO, but the bass is a little "fun" for competitive use, and long-term you need to give your ears a break. From what I read, the XL Earpads decrease the bass while increasing soundstage and comfort, so one day I'll probably pick a pair of those up, but keep in mind the M-100 is a $300 closed headphone.

When you go to these LAN events, are you bringing a desktop (m-atx sized?) with an available internal PCI express card slot, or a laptop? If you need a small, external, easy to transport surround processor and DAC, the Sound Blaster Omni may be a better choice for you.

I don't know what the Omni's output impedance is, since it's one of Creative's most recent products, but if you're ever worried about output impedance mismatch, pick up an external amp with low output Ohms, like the cheap FiiO E5 or a more expensive amp to match your headphones. Side note: the Sony MA900 has an impedance compensator, so that one doesn't need special consideration in that way.


----------



## chicolom

vsha said:


> Has anyone tried the Q701 with the bass port mod _and_ Annie pads at the same time? How did it sound?


 
  
 I've tried it on the K712.
  
 Basically the mod is going to make the bass a tad rumblier.  The pads add overall warmth, and the mod adds a tad more bass rumble ontop of that.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> I've tried it on the K712.
> 
> Basically the mod is going to make the bass a tad rumblier.  The pads add overall warmth, and the mod adds a tad more bass rumble ontop of that.




I know I still ought to swap back to the Q701 pads, but are there any other mods to create the reverse effect of the bass port mod?


----------



## PurpleAngel

slog said:


> It does matter to me that the headphones are closed, as I plan on attending several LAN events in the future with my setup.
> I can't have outside noise getting in the way.
> Would that Sound Blaster Z be ideal for such low ohm headphones?
> I'm basically looking for a setup similar to what *LiamIV *just described above.
> I need highly competitive directional sound, but I'd like a rich full sound for when I'm relaxing and playing RPGs and such.


 
 The SB-Z & SB-Zx (Sound Blaster Z & Zx) headphone output impedance is 22-Ohms, so technically you would want to use a headphone with an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher, but I'm sure there are people in the world using headphones with less then 176-Ohms, with their SB-Z, like in the 32-Ohm to 65-Ohm range.
 Anyway, there is the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250-Ohm headphones.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I know I still ought to swap back to the Q701 pads, but are there any other mods to create the reverse effect of the bass port mod?


 

 I don't think so.
  
 And yes, you should.


----------



## grizzlybeast

Where is the Alpha dog at in this. didn't MAD lust review them along with matt?


----------



## conquerator2

I really must recommend the Audio Technica ATH-A900X, or ATH-W1000X, priced at $189 and $499 from AudioCubes [or $399 off Amazon/Ebay]
 I think the 900X, is very good for a closed headphone, runs well practically off anything, incl. the Asus U3, and is quite sturdy


----------



## MkUItra

@Mad Lust Envy, Any chance you'll review the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X/900X/1000X and/or Shure SRH1840 in the near future?


----------



## kenshinhimura

mkuitra said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> , Any chance you'll review the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X/900X/1000X and/or Shure SRH1840 in the near future?




He said he might be out of the headphone game for a bit so I doubt it


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> I really must recommend the Audio Technica ATH-A900X, or ATH-W1000X, priced at $189 and $499 from AudioCubes [or $399 off Amazon/Ebay]
> I think the 900X, is very good for a closed headphone, runs well practically off anything, incl. the Asus U3, and is quite sturdy




How well does it isolate you from ambient noise, people talking a few feet away from you?


----------



## Breaker

Deciding between two setups, input would be appreciated. Currently have dt770 pro-250s. Two options I'm considering are:

 SoundBlaster Z > Magni > dt770

                 or

 RazerSurround > Modi > Magni > dt770


 I've demo'd the razer software and it's is not too shabby for what it is. Is SBX much better if at all? This is for game immersion with headphones only, I don't like any type of software on while listening to music and I watch movies on an actual 5.1 setup. 

 I love DH for its superior positional cues but I just can't deal with all the reverb.


----------



## Evshrug

^ just plugged in my Z, let's see if it works. Creatives last gen THX TruStudio Pro was, IMO, on par or slightly better than DH positioning (your ears may vary), and it didn't have the reverb of DH which I didn't like either.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> How well does it isolate you from ambient noise, people talking a few feet away from you?


 
 The 900X isolates quite well.
 I use it while commuting a lot and at home it's a non-issue.
 There is TV playing, PC humming, people talking and I find it isolates quite fine.
 Not as well as the Pro 900 used to [I think, by memory] but decent isolation.
 It doesn't leak at all too.


----------



## martin vegas

spooky655 said:


> I usually listen to music with Klipsch S4 IEMs, but I do have a Harmon Kardon AVR-146 receiver with a 5.1 speaker setup. I'm hoping to somewhat replicate that experience on my desktop computer.


 
 Can someone answer his questions please, instead of just ignoring him?


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Can someone answer his questions please, instead of just ignoring him?




Excuse me?
I wrote a lengthy response to his question, what you just quoted contains no question AND what I said before applies to what you quoted.


----------



## martin vegas

What you said was that he needs two pairs of headphones, if I remember correctly..why doesn't he just get a stx and use dolby headphone with a good pair of beyers?


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> What you said was that he needs two pairs of headphones, if I remember correctly..why doesn't he just get a stx and use dolby headphone with a good pair of beyers?


 
 Because they are not an all-rounder headphone?


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> Because they are not an all-rounder headphone?


 
 Is the bass any better with the Audio Technica ATH A900x?


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> Is the bass any better with the Audio Technica ATH A900x?


 
 Depends, define better.


----------



## SaLX

@Breaker..
  
*SoundBlaster Z > Magni > dt770:* You'd have to use the headphone out in conjunction with the amp to get correct headphone surround. You wouldn't want to use the line outs, because as of now this new range of Sound Blasters would consider your headphones to be speakers. I've tried it and it sounds weird to me. The old X-Fi's did not do this (you could use the line-outs with headphones).
  
 You could get away without that amp but it'd most certainly help - and somebody in the Z thread used a Magni via the headphone out and reported that there was no distortion. Please bear in mind this isn't an ideal solution but it worked for that guy. I'd try it without the amp first.
  
*Razer Surround > Modi > Magni > dt770:* Not as good as SBZ Pro or DH, but as you say it's not too shabby. It has however been criticised for poor overall SQ. Checkout The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio thread or the Creative Sound Blaster new série Z thread for more info/endless arguments 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
*SoundBlaster ZxR > dt770*: ?? Same (ish) price as the above solutions. I'd go for this option myself.


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> Depends, define better.


 
 Is the bass deeper with more sub and mid bass?


----------



## Evshrug

That was a reply to slog, Spooky specifically asked about the MA900 and the dark side of the moon album. He didn't ask about beyers. The STX is a decent option but people complain about driver support, the hot gaming soundcards for PC right now (with good drivers) are Creative's new Z line of soundblasters.

Nobody was being ignored.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> Is the bass deeper with more sub and mid bass?


 
 No, I don't think so.
 Which Beyer model are we talking about?


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> No, I don't think so.
> Which Beyer model are we talking about?


 
 The dt770, the mmx 300 would be the better choice if he has the cash!


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> The dt770, the mmx 300 would be the better choice if he has the cash!


 
 I think the bass might be comparable to the DT770.
 Hard to say if there is more or less.


----------



## AxelCloris

OK, this live streaming feature of the PS4 is pretty sweet. I enjoy watching people play games. Probably my favorite next gen feature I've seen so far.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> OK, this live streaming feature of the PS4 is pretty sweet. I enjoy watching people play games. Probably my favorite next gen feature I've seen so far.




My bad. Doing three things at once, lol.


----------



## PurpleAngel

breaker said:


> Deciding between two setups, input would be appreciated. Currently have dt770 pro-250s. Two options I'm considering are:
> SoundBlaster Z > Magni > dt770
> or
> RazerSurround > Modi > Magni > dt770
> ...


 
 How about
 SoundBlaster Z > DT770


----------



## Breaker

purpleangel said:


> How about
> SoundBlaster Z > DT770


 
 Was concerned about the quality of the amp, sound cards aren't known for integrating the best of amps. I couldn't find the specs of the one on the SB-Z. 

 I'm a fan of the Schiit stack so I preferred to go that route if SBX Pro Studio and RazerSurround relatively on par with each other in games. I don't plan on using the virtual surround software in any other situation aside from gaming.


----------



## SaLX

Do a search on youtube for RazerSurround - a fair few comparisons between the technologies. Switch to stereo/no surround effects.


----------



## martin vegas

Is that download ok, or does it give you toolbars that you don't want and malware garbage?


----------



## AxelCloris

RazerSurround is a legitimate program. No malware or third party installs. Starting Jan 1st it won't be free. It's free right now to get word out about it. But since it's technically a paid program you won't run into toolbar or other third party garbage. It's not the best out there; but for free and if it's all you can get, it'll do.


----------



## Breaker

salx said:


> Do a search on youtube for RazerSurround - a fair few comparisons between the technologies. Switch to stereo/no surround effects.


 
  
 There aren't many but from what I've listened to, it's hard to decide without extensive personal testing.

 For instance I listened to one on battlefield 3, with this game there is so much going on that it's tough to compare. There was a short segment by a fountain where rear sounds with the razer software were rather muffled.

 I listened to another video with bioshock infinite where the razer surround actually seemed rather effective when voice panned around. Maybe it is certain frequencies where razer noticeably mucks up the sound?


----------



## PurpleAngel

breaker said:


> Was concerned about the quality of the amp, sound cards aren't known for integrating the best of amps. I couldn't find the specs of the one on the SB-Z.
> 
> I'm a fan of the Schiit stack so I preferred to go that route if SBX Pro Studio and RazerSurround relatively on par with each other in games. I don't plan on using the virtual surround software in any other situation aside from gaming.


 

 I've assumed the headphone amplifier built into the SB-Z & SB-Zx is not as good as the headphone amplifier chip (TI 6120A2) built into the SB-ZxR and Essence STX & ST.
 (I myself would rather use a Magni or O2 amplifier, over any amp built into a sound card)
 But for the cash you would spend for the Magni/Modi combo, you could get headphones better then the DT770 Pro 250-Ohm.
  
 I guess it comes down to finding out how good the Razer software is?


----------



## davisman

evshrug said:


> Mad, I'd be interested in your view on Ghosts. Amazon reviews are hating on the popular franchise, but everyone I've actually talked with in person actually likes it after a few games adjustment. CoD4 with stopping power Is where I've been playing for years... so reports of powerful guns killing in two or one shots sounds normal to me, and I like the idea that the maps have multiple routes and fewer choke points. Another thing that people have "hated" but sounds like a good highlight to me is the de-emphasis on air suppression kill streaks, I always thought that the relentless airborne death took away from the regular gunplay. A mode like Black Ops' sticks and stones would be really addictive for me...


 
 I could give you mine 
  
 Weapons are higher damage than Black Ops 2. There are a few two shot AR's in the game, the most used would be the MSBS. From Drift0r: It has 55dmg per shot, and is a 3 round burst rifle. Think of the Type 95 from MW3, or somewhat similar to the M16 in cod4, although it has a higher rate of fire. The MSBS currently has a time to kill of about 1/16th of a second or roughly 4 frames (out of 60 frames per second). 
  
 The game can play a little slow, because of how loud footsteps are, and how fast you die. This places a high priority on stealth, and some lobbies are really campy.
  
 IMO the best streak setup is support. There are no Lock on Launchers (Except for the one in the support streak loadout), but air streaks are pretty weak and are able to get shot down with regular guns pretty easily. The Loki (15 assault kill streak) is terrible, and the rival streak in the support loadout _Odin_ is a lot better. 
  
 The new game modes are pretty decent, I really enjoy Hunted, Blitz, and Cranked. Cranked is pretty full of tryhards, so it can be annoying. 
  
 I forgot to mention the maps. They are huge, and clearly meant for 9v9 game modes. The 3 lane map design that Blops2 had is gone. They are some good, and some really bad. Overall Blops2 maps were a lot better IMO.


----------



## vsha

I'm having a ridiculously hard time deciding between bassport-modded Q701 with Annie earpads and Fidelio X1. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Is the bass of the X1 very significantly more immersive and cinematic than the modded Q701's?
  
 I do more SP than MP (about 70-30 split) and I don't really play "MLG style" so immersive bass is important to me, but if it's not a substantial difference between the headphones, I'd rather spend 45 dollars less on the Q701 (if someone could show me somewhere I could get the X1 for less than 300 bucks + tax, that would also be appreciated).
  
 I'm going to be using a Xonar DG solely for Dolby Headphone and a very analytical Audio-GD NFB-11.32 as a DAC/amp in the interest of letting the headphones do the talking with no coloration from the DAC/amp. I've heard the Q701 plays nice with it, but know nothing about the X1's synergy with it.


----------



## benjaminbenjami

i have read what i can, but i am so ignorant of headphones i couldn't' follow most of the talk!  so sorry for the dumb questions
 1.  I am only using the headphones for gaming on ps4, nothing else.  I am not too particular about sound quality, but obviously don't want them to suck, almost all my gaming is online and i care more about hearing things like footsteps, then "perfect sound".
 2.  from what i have read i am about 90% sure i am going to go with the plyr1.
 3.  it has to be wireless and work with ps4
  
 so here are my questions
 1.  any reason not to go with plyr1?
 2.  any better price than amazon? (160 plus shipping)
 3.  anything else i am going to have to buy?
 4.  anything else i should be aware of..
  
  
 thanks in advance


----------



## Murder Mike

benjaminbenjami said:


> 2.  any better price than amazon? (160 plus shipping)


 
 Search the deals thread in the last few pages. There was a post about 25% off any Skullcandy products on their eBay page with code CSKULLC25.


----------



## davisman

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!






vsha said:


> I'm having a ridiculously hard time deciding between bassport-modded Q701 with Annie earpads and Fidelio X1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  


 If I were in your shoes, I would get the x1. That said, I have the akg annies, and with a slight bass boost from the Asus control panel, their immersion is outstanding.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those lame 3 lane maps are what make CoD fun, not this huge BF style map nonsense.


----------



## chicolom

vsha said:


> I'm having a ridiculously hard time deciding between bassport-modded Q701 with Annie earpads and Fidelio X1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The X1 will still have significantly more bass.  The bass mod won't be able to make up for differences between them.
  
 Keep in mind the bass isn't the only difference between them.  The Q701 is still lighter and drier and the X1 is warmer.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Those lame 3 lane maps are what make CoD fun, not this huge BF style map nonsense.


 
  
 How many players are in a match? Is it still 6vs6?
  
 If so, that is clearly where they failed. If there's going to be bigger maps then there clearly needs to be a higher number of players...


----------



## gg99

So I literally moments ago received my Samson SR850 headphones, and I was surprised to see that there were already soft cloth pads installed instead of pleather. Perhaps in all of my reading on various options before purchase I mixed something up, but I thought these were supposed to come with uncomfortable pleather pads. So is it the stock cloth pads that people find uncomfortable or perhaps some prior generation of pleather? I probably jumped the gun by purchasing replacement AKG K240 knock-offs from ebay that looked like well reviewed alternatives (but unfortunately likely won't arrive for a couple of weeks from China).
  
 Am I crazy? Did I just buy replacements that will be exactly like what's already on there? I'm beginning to think I may have over-researched this since I'm having trouble keeping it all straight!


----------



## davisman

mad lust envy said:


> Those lame 3 lane maps are what make CoD fun, not this huge BF style map nonsense.


 
 Oh I agree. 
  
 ETA: Some of the maps can be considered 3 lane, and they are by far the best. Maps like Warhawk, strikezone, and Prison break (more a 4 lane map, but essentially 3) have the best flow, and gameplay.


----------



## davisman

change is good said:


> How many players are in a match? Is it still 6vs6?
> 
> If so, that is clearly where they failed. If there's going to be bigger maps then there clearly needs to be a higher number of players...


 
 IIRC Current gen is 6v6, next gen is 9v9.


----------



## spooky655

Can you recommend a DAC, amp, or DAC/amp for gaming with the MA900s? I would like to keep the cost no more than $100.


----------



## vangogh

Someone help  I'm so overwhelmed with all these choices and I've been trying to wrap my head around what to upgrade to. Mad Lust, thanks so much for this guide but I'm getting in over my head here lol, but very well written and super helpful and narrowing down some hardware... just need a little outside opinion here. Will try and state everything clearly.
  
 I'm looking for an all around budget set up ($100-150), something that will be mix between fun/cinematic and slightly competitive but not as important. Mad Lust your awesome review had me almost clicking the checkout button on the CALs but then I realized that these reviews are all done using some sort of soundcard or outside hardware? This is where I get lost... amplifiers, ohms, dacs... Is there a go to option within my budget range that will work?
  
 I'm running windows 7 with basic sound drivers I guess :/ no installed soundcards, and a pair of crappy iems. Been looking to upgrade my sound for a long time and I really want to get it right the first time, finally have some funds to get going. 
  
 Also came across the reviews of Koss KSCxx and the Sony MA900. Leaning towards Koss for the price, but if I can get something substantially better with my budget then I'd go for that.
  
 Headphone type doesn't matter, and I don't really need to worry about sound leaking in or out.
  
 I don't mind extra hardware on my desk or plugged in to my PC.
  
 Would love any input from this super friendly forum!
  
 P.S. should I wait until black friday/ cyber monday o_o?
  
*TLDR*
  
 Budget $100-150
 Fun/cinematic > competitive
 Koss KSCxx / MA900 / CAL ?


----------



## sadboy

chubtoad said:


> Does nobody else find it slightly disturbing to keep seeing Reggie's face on the top right corner of the screen every time they come to this thread?
> 
> It's like he is haunting me now LOL


 
 Best meme ever.


----------



## PurpleAngel

spooky655 said:


> Can you recommend a DAC, amp, or DAC/amp for gaming with the MA900s? I would like to keep the cost no more than $100.


 

 Try asking MA900 owners if they have tried using using it with the Sound Blaster Z (maybe the combo works well enough).
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/663121/sony-mdr-ma900-appreciation-thread
  
 Or ask Sound blaster Z owners if any of them have tried the MA900 with it.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-s-rie-z


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Going through the full CoD Ghosts campaign with the MA900, I dunno how anyone could say it's lacking bass. Seriously. It was insanely immersive.


----------



## chicolom

vangogh said:


> I'm looking for an all around budget set up ($100-150), something that will be mix between fun/cinematic and slightly competitive but not as important. Mad Lust your awesome review had me almost clicking the checkout button on the CALs but then I realized that these reviews are all done using some sort of soundcard or outside hardware? This is where I get lost... amplifiers, ohms, dacs... Is there a go to option within my budget range that will work?
> Also came across the reviews of Koss KSCxx and the Sony MA900. Leaning towards Koss for the price, but if I can get something substantially better with my budget then I'd go for that.
> Would love any input from this super friendly forum!
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You can't go wrong with either the KSC75 or MA900.  Both are great bang-for-buck headphones. 
  
 At $10, the Koss in particular may be THE greatest bang-for-buck headphone in existence. I still remember the first time I heard them and being blown away at the sound for the price.  If you don't like the clips you can mod it with a headband: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/10830#post_9061076
  
 The MA900 is a great all rounder and comes with a more refined sound, a bigger sound, and a bigger soundstage than the Koss. 
  
 Both are pretty easy to drive so you won't need to invest too much in an amp. 
  
  
 The CALs are very good too, but they're a bit bass heavy and with a smaller soundstage so I'd personally go with the other two for gaming.
  
 I wouldn't really bother waiting for black friday/cyber monday.  These headphones aren't usually the ones that get those types of deals.


----------



## vangogh

> Both are pretty easy to drive so you won't need to invest too much in an amp.


 
 Thanks so much.  What sort of soundcard/amp would you recommend to go with the Koss?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Going through the full CoD Ghosts campaign with the MA900, I dunno how anyone could say it's lacking bass. Seriously. It was insanely immersive.


 
  
 But the bass didn't help with the sharks.


----------



## Chubtoad

Hold on, are you saying MA900 is only $100 in america?  why do they cost $300+ in canada? What!
  
 Also, MLE or anyone with the experience of both, from a bass/immersion standpoint..X1 or MA900?


----------



## AxelCloris

chubtoad said:


> Hold on, are you saying MA900 is only $100 in america?  why do they cost $300+ in canada? What!
> 
> Also, MLE or anyone with the experience of both, from a bass/immersion standpoint..X1 or MA900?


 
  
 I've not seen a MA900 for $100. If I had, I'd have snatched it up in a heartbeat. I've seen them around $200.
  
 For bass/immersion, get the X1.


----------



## vsha

chicolom said:


> The X1 will still have significantly more bass.  The bass mod won't be able to make up for differences between them.
> 
> Keep in mind the bass isn't the only difference between them.  The Q701 is still lighter and drier and the X1 is warmer.


 
 Chicolom and davisman, thanks for advising me. I think I want to buy the X1 now, but although MLE seems to have an overall positive impression of the X1, I can't get over this part of his X1 review.
  
 "the bass can at times come off a bit undetailed and lacking in texture and layering. Perhaps even one-note-ish. To me, the X1's bass sounds like it was pre-boosted from a neutral headphone, and it sounds as if Philips pushed the X1's driver to it's limit in the bass, and adding any more would probably strain the drivers causing them to distort badly."
  
 Maybe I'm misinterpreting here, but that statement sounds pretty damning to me, especially the adjective "one-note-ish". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I also read Chicolom's comparison and review and he shares the same sentiments, and yet he owns the headphone. Are the flaws in the X1's bass outweighed by its positives in that same region? And does the Annie contain significantly more bass "finesse" despite lacking quantity of bass compared to the X1?


----------



## davisman

Chico's review compares the annies directly to the X1's IIRC. I love the annies, but currently you can get the akg k712 pro for cheaper. Also keep in mind that you cannot service the X1's pads. So if they get damaged you are sol. 
  
 Have you considered the sony ma900? I have demo'd these and they are outstanding. For 200 bucks you cant go wrong here at all.


----------



## Change is Good

<-- now has a K712 PRO for sale


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> <-- now has a K712 PRO for sale


 
  
 ...wut?


----------



## vsha

Obviously the Denon AH-D7000 has the X1 beat in terms of fun and overall, but what about the AH-D2000 and 5000? How would they stack up to the X1?


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


vangogh said:


> Thanks so much.  What sort of soundcard/amp would you recommend to go with the Koss?


 
  
 It depends on what surround sound DSP you like.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400
  
 I'm not familiar with the latest cards, but Asus and Creative are the two main vendors.  This is presuming you have a desktop PC. 
  
 Another option is to use an external (optical) DAC/AMP and then a device like the Asus U3 to just process the signal.
  
  


axelcloris said:


> But the bass didn't help with the sharks.


 
  
 Are Sharks a new killstreak reward?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


vsha said:


> Maybe I'm misinterpreting here, but that statement sounds pretty damning to me, especially the adjective "one-note-ish".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I wouldn't worry about it too much. 
  
 The AKGs don't contain "significantly" better bass quality, but they are a bit better.  The bass on the X1 is more fun and immersive though.  So it's a tradeoff.  The X1 bass sounds somewhat similar to how the AKGs would sound if you bass boosted them.  You would trade a little quality for more quantity. 
  
 If you want a big fun bass that's suited for movies and single player games, the X1 is a good choice.  If you only want perfect bass technicalities, you'll need a more expensive and neutral headphone.
  


change is good said:


> <-- now has a K712 PRO for sale


 
  
 O RLY?
  
 What did you find that's better?  The Shures?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change is living up to his name.

I wonder what made that happen...

As fkr the X1, it's a great choice for fun and immersion. I was overly analyzing it's sound characteristics for the sake of the review. The bass is fine. It won't win awards in quality. But the overall package makes the X1 a must have for the price.

As for the sharks, Axel is referring to my livestream of the CoD campaign, where I harassed some sharks and got killed a few times, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

I received the 1840 yesterday as an exchange for something I returned to avoid a hefty restocking fee. I was happy with the K712, but the recent price drop and limited choice selection I decided to give them a try...
  
 First, I'll say they are some sexy beasts...especially next to their more manly counterpart (1540)
  
 The differences between the two are very minor. The 1840 has slightly less bass (in between the Q701 and K712) but is faster and more detailed. It's mids are slightly more forward and has less grainy treble than the K712 to my ears... making it a smoother experience. As for soundstage, the K712 wins in that department. Not that the 1840 lacks it, it's just that the size of the cups and natural openness of the AKGs make it hard for most to compete. I even went as far as doing a no music test with my TV on in the background; and while these differences were also minor I clearly noticed that the K712 was more open.
  
 Still, in the end, I found myself enjoying the 1840 more with its purposes because of it's better clarity; even with the slightly smaller soundstage. I wanted to spend more time with the two but I am in need of funds after these last few weeks.
  
 And man, those K712s sold quick!


----------



## AxelCloris

Glad they sold quickly for you. Now sell those Westones


----------



## Evshrug

davisman said:


> I could give you mine
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome dude, thanks! I my gang skipped BLOPS 2 because of reported lag issues (not that P2P connections can't be laggy, but BO2 was inconsistently laggy which is harder to compensate for, difference from other CODs may be down to packet size) and a general lack of enthusiasm, though there is some for this new Ghosts.



vangogh said:


> Thanks so much.  What sort of soundcard/amp would you recommend to go with the Koss?



Nice thing is the Koss KSC75 is so cheap, you can get a good surround processor which you would overall be happy with your system. I was just listening to the Koss KSC75 (the package says "Pulse" on them), and I could see how this could be all the sound quality someone could need. Of course you can do better, but if you don't mind open headphones the KSC 75 (or sporta-pros, I guess, FWIR people usually preferred the PortaPros) stand up really well against anything in the sub-$100 range, especially when you take in account their near-free price.

You want processing for a desktop computer? You could stay super cheap and get an Asus Xonar U3, but since you save so much headphone bucks you could get a Creative Soundblaster Z or Omni and be well-set. I just got a Z for $64 from Amazon at the end of last week, I bet you'll find deals soon on sound processors. I like the idea that the Omni (has native Mac drivers, and) is an external device that puts the plug-in jacks, volume control, and stereo mics in convenient reach, and wouldn't be too hard to transport to a friend's house or LAN. I bet there will be deals on these things soon... set an alert on PcPartsPicker.com to get notification if a piece of kit you're interested in goes on sale.



change is good said:


> <-- now has a K712 PRO for sale
> 
> h34r:



... wut?



chicolom said:


> It depends on what surround sound DSP you like.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400
> 
> 
> Are Sharks a new killstreak reward?



LoL sharks killstreak!?? Better than dogs! Man, I WISH I'd seen this stream! 

I'll add SBX ProStudio to the virtual surround list, add demo if possible.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> LoL sharks killstreak!?? Better than dogs! Man, I WISH I'd seen this stream!


 
  
 Twas an excellent stream indeed. Partially because MLE shooting sharks in the face is epic and partially because it kept me through several hours at work. A couple of co-workers started watching the stream as well and were quite enjoying the multiplayer content. Then MLE turned on the mic and all became even more entertaining. It made me desire a PS4. I probably won't buy one for quite a while as I'm about to buy a house, but I now want one none the less.
  
 New floor speakers (for my 7.2 setup), Panasonic VT60 TV, PS4... damn I have expensive wants right now


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I forgot to mention that when I put the alacantara pads on the 1840 it turns it into a completely different headphone.
  
 It gives it a_ rather __significant_ boost in bass; almost to a point where it's mind boggling how much more there is compared to stock. I would consider it a "fun" open headphone at this point; where only the X1 has more and only by a slight margin. This bass, however, is much more controlled and refined than the X1... making it a winner in that regard from all the open headphones I've tried.
  
 It's soundstage, however, decreases to the point to where it defeats the purpose of what I own an open headphone for. Therefore, I am sticking with stock and using them for gaming, classical, jazz, etc. It's stock bass isn't lacking, it's actually neutral to my ears... so it's perfect for it's purpose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wildly swinging opinions on the 1840.


----------



## Change is Good

You want to review them? I'll send a pair of both pads with them so you can see the differences for yourself...
  
 I'm not going to say they're "better" than the K712. It's just that since my ears have gotten used to the 1540 with Alpha pads it was hard adjusting to the K712's peak up top when switching. The 1540 still has a peak, but it's smoother to my ears. Others, however, will say it's "less detailed" and less "transparent."
  
 Also, the slightly less bass and slightly more forward mids than the K712 are making these 1840s better competitive cans for me... even with it's smaller soundstage. I'm able to hear footsteps better while still having good pinpoint accuracy... and chatting has benefited, too.
  
 Detailing and imaging wins hands down with the 1840.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HERE IS A SHOCKER: Xbox one only supports DTS and stereo through the optical out, with no mention of future Dolby support.

A MASSIVE **** YOU to all of use virtual surround gamers, unless you have a receiver, SU-DH1 or Headzone/Smyth Realizer.

What a nightmare.

I'm assuming this will spawn a new wave of virtual surround tech, so that's one good thing to come from this... either that or the Mixamp 2014 will take a page off the JVC-SU-DH1 and add in DTS decoding into DH encoding.


----------



## benbenkr

Sorry to break the discussion, but here's some bad news (sorta) for anyone looking to buy an Xbox One and continuing to use their Mixamp/DSS with it.
  
 So the bad news; *you can't*. Not directly at least.
  
 The Xbox One's optical out only encodes 5.1 in the form of DTS Digital Surround, no more in Dolby Digital 5.1/Live. So going from Xbox One to Mixamp/DSS via optical would pretty much mean that the console is just sending stereo PCM.
  
 The fix is to send DD 5.1 through HDMI to your TV, then your TV optical out to the Mixamp/DSS. Most entry level TVs in the last couple of years should output DDL through optical out, but if your TV doesn't then... you're SOL.
  
 Microsoft isn't looking to implement DDL through the Xbox One's optical out anytime in the near future though, so yeah.. even more bad news there.
  
 *EDIT*
 Damn it, MLE beat me to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I beat you to it, hahaha. 

My flagship level VT60 does not do Dolby through the optical out. Only does it for OTA feeds and tv apps.

Everything elss is stereo.

What a company needs to do is make a ssimple device that converts DTS into DOLBY. Sure, its yet another thing to the chain, but still something.


----------



## benbenkr

I know!!! Omg. 

So here's the chance for Astro (or anyone else) to bring in DTS Headphone X + DH in one package, no more excuses!

*EDIT*
@MLE
Wow seriously? I would have thought that DDL through optical out is a simple requirement for most TVs now a days. My very old Sharp LC32A37M even had DDL through optical.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​I dunno why optical outs on TVs are neglected. I haven't seen many with Dolby passthrough for external devices (ps3, etc). It only will do Dolby for over the air, and apps through the TVs on smart features.


----------



## benbenkr

The current Sony W6 TV I own does have Dolby passthrough on its optical out though, that's odd but at least that's a plus point for Sony. I do bitstream Dolby 5.1 through HDMI on my PC to the TV then into the DSS, it works.
  
 But wow oh wow, I wonder why Microsoft would ditch DDL on the XB1's optical out though. Surely they know there are a lot of Astro users (and to a lesser extent, other DH users out there) who plays on the 360 and wants to make the jump to the next-gen. How did they oversee this? It's not like there is a licensing issue either since the HDMI out do have DDL capability.
  
 *EDIT*
 And it seems like HDMI IN on the Xbox One is broken beyond disbelief. Audio downmixes to stereo no matter what you do and if you decide to connect another console into it, expect horrendous input lag (which Microsoft reps earlier said there wouldn't be any).


----------



## PurpleAngel

benbenkr said:


> So here's the chance for Astro (or anyone else) to bring in DTS Headphone X + DH in one package, no more excuses!
> 
> *EDIT* @MLE
> Wow seriously? I would have thought that DDL through optical out is a simple requirement for most TVs now a days. My very old Sharp LC32A37M even had DDL through optical.


 
 I  believe Turtle Beach systems is working on a DTS Headphone X headphone surround sound device.


----------



## benbenkr

purpleangel said:


> I  believe Turtle Beach systems is working on a DTS Headphone X headphone surround sound device.


 
  
 But it's just an announced wireless headset isn't it? I hope they actually make a DSS3 and sell it as its own device.


----------



## chicolom

Why do I get the funny feeling that the only reason Microsoft would remove Dolby Digital support is to break compatibility with devices people have already bought...


----------



## martin vegas

Headphone x!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I am looking to upgrade my TV since I want/need a bigger size and started gaming more compared to not doing much in the many last months. Going from a 42" Panasonic GT30 to something around 55". I was thinking about a VTW60 (VT65 in the US) but that think shrieks heat from the specs and consumption measurements. The Sony W900 didn't appeal to me in terms of PQ. 
  
 Plasmas have that extremely smooth motion reproduction that is clearly noticable in comparison to LCDs. I fear the heat of a 55" though.


----------



## martin vegas

This is the best one you can get..50 inch!


----------



## Fegefeuer

8 inch bigger, could still be decisive but I'll try to get a good price for a 55"


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Why do I get the funny feeling that the only reason Microsoft would remove Dolby Digital support is to break compatibility with devices people have already bought...



I mean, that SOUNDS like a Microsoft move... but do they offer a competing product? Little chat headsets, seems completely different from game sound to me.

See, when Apple does something like drop the floppy drive, serial mouse connectors, parallel ports, DVD burners, etc, they do it with a message: you're getting/using a superior alternative instead, like USB or the internet. Sony has created a few proprietary connectors and products, but even though many didn't catch on, the theme was Sony was trying to fill a niche (and make money), not create a void. Here, you could argue DTS is superior from a SQ standpoint, but it's simply only for premium luxury products that, IMO, aren't part of the largest target market's budget. Not many college kids are gonna get a receiver and 5.1 speakers in their dorm. Instead, it simply creates a product void, and (like a theme for the Xbox One) alienates their customer base. Microsoft... Why? 
...
Why?



martin vegas said:


> Headphone x!



Thanks for the demo, would love to hear it "live," but it sounded very good on my Q701. Oddly, the R/L fronts seemed a little higher than straight in front of me, but the height channels sounded higher. DTS X devices will be nice and an improvement on the occasional height cues confusion in FPS games... *will be* nice. Once they exist. Anyway, I'll add this video to the guide, thanks for finding.


----------



## burritoboy9984

The first DTS X device hit this month, but it is bluetooth only.


----------



## martin vegas

burritoboy9984 said:


> The first DTS X device hit this month, but it is bluetooth only. Not sure if xbox one is getting headphone x ..i know that sennheiser are doing new headsets with more drivers in them..could be a  headphone version of dolby atmos but not 100% sure!


----------



## Evshrug

Ew, more multiple-driver headphones? So far haven't worked out well at all, resonance and interference problems from having such a small space to work in (many overlapping sound waves causing beats and cancellation).


----------



## burritoboy9984

Can't wait to see Astro's response to this, after they said it was going to work.


----------



## vsha

how does the Denon AH-D*5000* compare to the Philips Fidelio X1? Would it be a better purchase overall, or only better for bass?


----------



## martin vegas

*$159.95*


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Breaker

I noticed the "Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3" software suite on creative's website. Does that mean their surround virtualization can be used without their sound cards via this software suite?


----------



## AxelCloris

Holy Youtube Batman!


----------



## Evshrug

Martin, and Axel,
If you think those vids and the DTS HX vid was cool... Look at the video I just posted in my Journal:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/60_20#post_9995187

(Linking thread so as to not derail this thread)
Thanks to Fegefeur for finding it first!


----------



## martin vegas

http://video.wired.com/watch/gadget-lab-playstation-4-mark-cerny-breaks-down-the-hardware


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Martin, and Axel,
> If you think those vids and the DTS HX vid was cool... Look at the video I just posted in my Journal:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/60_20#post_9995187
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was simply saying that there were a lot of youtube videos on the past 2 pages. I hadn't actually watched any of them.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> http://video.wired.com/watch/gadget-lab-playstation-4-mark-cerny-breaks-down-the-hardware


 
 Not very informative, but more Mark Cerny is always good ^_^


----------



## martin vegas

I agree, sorry I never watched it first..thought he was saying something about the sound..he's like the peter pan of video games!


----------



## davisman

Honestly though, why would they(xbox one) allow dolby through HDMI and not through optical? That makes no sense whatsoever.


----------



## conquerator2

davisman said:


> Honestly though, why would they allow dolby through HDMI and not through optical? That makes no sense whatsoever.


 
 You mean the Xbox?
 Cause PS4 does allow it.
 But yeah, I dunno.


----------



## davisman

Yea xbox one. Maybe they can fix this with a firmware update. 
  
 On the new Polk 4 shot "The 4 Shot Headset turns your games from boring 2-dimensional TV dramas into a roller coaster of thrilling, all-encompassing 3-dimensional effects. This is the kind of audio performance you expect from Polk, keeping you one step ahead of the competition. Quit reading and start playing!"


----------



## conquerator2

davisman said:


> Yea xbox one. Maybe they can fix this with a firmware update.
> 
> On the new Polk 4 shot "The 4 Shot Headset turns your games from boring 2-dimensional TV dramas into a roller coaster of thrilling, all-encompassing 3-dimensional effects. This is the kind of audio performance you expect from Polk, keeping you one step ahead of the competition. Quit reading and start playing!"


 
 Who knows maybe it's a different chip for the optical out that can't do that? Hard to say if it's something fixable by a simple firmware update.
  
 To that Polk text... That leaves me completely cold. It is something every DH-processed headphone does. The text says nothing about the headphone's quality. I really don't know Polk Audio at all and have never really used any of their product.
 This reminds me a bit about Beats' marketing but I pray to god I am wrong.


----------



## SaLX

davisman said:


> Honestly though, why would they(xbox one) allow dolby through HDMI and not through optical? That makes no sense whatsoever.


 
 Optical is pretty old hat now - the receiving DAC has no say about the data rate it's given (ok it does but it's a slight kludge). USB is better that way and HDMI I'm pretty sure is the same. Hardly critical with an Xbox though (*Edit -actually I take that back.. MS are trying to make it the XBox the hub of all that is multimedia in the living room).


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> I was simply saying that there were a lot of youtube videos on the past 2 pages. I hadn't actually watched any of them.



Well yeah there were a bunch, but I posted on my thread because this thread is mostly about headphones (that work well with a Mixamp while gaming), while my thread is a compilation of interesting/useful sound systems, with a big "article" about different surround sound techniques on the first page. I wrote that "article" as a companion to Mad's headphone reviews (and Nameless' configuration guide), in case someone was interested in the different forms of surround sound.

I think it's a community service to make info easy to find, and occasionally I work to contribute. That's why I got so excited when Chico linked it yesterday ^_^


----------



## Breaker

Evshrug what's your opinion on SBX versus the older CMSS-3D?


----------



## martin vegas

All i knew was that Polk audio did car speakers..never knew anything else about them, I think they are supposed to be good at speakers though!


----------



## Evshrug

breaker said:


> Evshrug what's your opinion on SBX versus the older CMSS-3D?



Well... I wrote it in my guide. Though I'm still formulating an opinion on SBX. I have gathered some of the best samples I could find of several of the different virtual surround techniques in my article, so you can see what you like best. If I learn how to make my own SBX sample, I will.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal

Martin and Conq,
I wouldn't say Polk makes the best stuff in the world, and they've only recently (from what I've seen) started making headphones at all, but I have a pair of Polk Monitor M40's, they're smooth and I think exemplify how the brand is a good value. My 3 driver bookshelf speakers sound much better than any soundbar or Home Theater in a Box (HTIB) I've yet heard, though Polk has started making their own soundbars. Their monitor speakers get high ratings on newegg and Amazon as well.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Well... I wrote it in my guide. Though I'm still formulating an opinion on SBX. I have gathered some of the best samples I could find of several of the different virtual surround techniques in my article, so you can see what you like best. If I learn how to make my own SBX sample, I will.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal
> 
> ...


 
 Are they powered speakers or do you use an amp with them? I agree with you an amp dac and speakers beats a sound bar!


----------



## Evshrug

Passive, I use a receiver to amp them. They're like a foot and a half long-wise, the mid drivers are 5 1/2" diameter I think.


CD included for scale. That's not my receiver... The speakers are temporarily hooked up to my mom's receiver.


----------



## davisman

conquerator2 said:


> Who knows maybe it's a different chip for the optical out that can't do that? Hard to say if it's something fixable by a simple firmware update.
> 
> To that Polk text... That leaves me completely cold. It is something every DH-processed headphone does. The text says nothing about the headphone's quality. I really don't know Polk Audio at all and have never really used any of their product.
> This reminds me a bit about Beats' marketing but I pray to god I am wrong.


 
 I agree, I hate when marketing information talks down to you. They do list tech specs: 


Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!



 
  

Max Sensitivity98 dBTotal Frequency Response20Hz-20kHz Nominal Impedance20 ohms




  
  
 They also have a 'Melee' headset that is apparently more robust in the virtual surround dept. "Tailor your audio experience with four Immersion Modes (Forza Racer, Halo FPS, Music and Cinema)."
  
 Why the silly EQ names I dont know, but from the specs I doubt these headphones will be much. But Im more interested in the virtual surround tech, and especially since it is all driven from a chat adapter that plugs into the controller. 
  
 ETA: I missed the bold type saying 'Melee Xbox 360 headset' so nvm.


----------



## pervysage

What the hell? No Dolby through Optical?
  
 Well there goes my plan to use the Mixamp with the Xbox One.
  
 Does the HDMI still output Dolby? And if so, could you use some kind of HDMI -> Optical adapter and still get surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

A bit expensive, but at least it should support Dolby through it's optical output. I haven't confirmed that, but it doesn't seem likely as it plainly states Dolby Digital support.


----------



## Evshrug

^HDMI still can, so SURE. That HDMI->Optical adapter would be called a receiver, ROFL! 

Astro may come out with a new Mixamp featuring HDMI input (or someone else), but by the time you get a new device you might as well get one supporting DTS HX with the support for overhead positional channels. I'm just as surprised as you, but I guess accessory backwards compatibility is the same story as previous-gen games.

In my mind, it's just one more solidifying thing against the Xbox 1. First, it was the anti-used game policy, I know a lot of publishers would've loved that and I know they reversed the decision, but it was the principle of it. Then, there was the online DRM checking, they also reversed that but it adds to the strikes on principle. This adds to the strike against M$ because they advertised better servers and no hacking for the years of Xbox Live I've paid for, but I've never seen any improvement in those areas, just saw a fee to unlock online multiplayer. I was starting to shrug off all that, thinking maybe I'm being too harsh and the XB1 really would deliver a new, premium experience, and the new controller and Halo were calling me... But BAM! We wanna shove new accessories and paid subscription entertainment like HBO and Netflix and Sports down your consumer gullet, We're Microsoft, the big money stash that never dies, you're welcome!

...

...

If I reeeeally wanted, it so happens that I could still get (IMO) the equivalent of DH by hooking the HDMI up to my Yamaha receiver for Silent Cinema mode.
*Shrug*


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2
> 
> A bit expensive, but at least it should support Dolby through it's optical output. I haven't confirmed that, but it doesn't seem likely as it plainly states Dolby Digital support.




This could be perfect for my mom, as she refuses to upgrade her ancient receiver (I think it has Coax instead of optical input for surround). Thanks for the find!


----------



## PurpleAngel

davisman said:


> Honestly though, why would they(xbox one) allow Dolby through HDMI and not through optical? That makes no sense whatsoever.


 

 Could be they are coming out with new external gaming headset that use HDMI.
 and want people to invest into new gaming hardware (more profit).
 Could be that Microsoft gets a royalty payment for every Xbox One compatible headset sold.
 Also Microsoft no longer has to make a royalty payment to Dolby for the use of DDL (Dolby Digital live).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> This could be perfect for my mom, as she refuses to upgrade her ancient receiver (I think it has Coax instead of optical input for surround). Thanks for the find!




Can't you just get a digital coax to optical converter (or vice versa)? It's cheaper than the switcher, in fact I need to buy another optical to digital coax converter, as right now, I'm constantly switching from the Ps3 to Ps4's optical cables on the Mixamp.

To be honest, I wish I hadn't sold my 5.8. I'm tired of all the cables going from my center to my bed...


----------



## Hailin

Just read this over at the astro forums. 
  
 "Hi everyone.

 Right then.

 I've had it confirmed that the Xbox One will indeed not support any Dolby technology at launch due to a decision made by Microsoft. However, this will not render your equipment unusable or reduce your audio quality. When you receive your Xbox One, you will need to set the optical output to stereo. Our equipment will then take that signal and upscale it to a 7.1 Enhanced Surround Sound signal using Dolby Pro Logic IIx and Dolby Headphone to make it feel more realistic and natural as you've been accustomed to on the Xbox 360 and PS3.

 So in the end, no matter which console you choose, you will still have a Dolby Digital experience.

 I understand it's a little disheartening hearing this a day before launch and can only apologise for this. I'll be back on the forums in a couple of hours after some rest to answer any questions you might have regarding this situation so feel free to post them now and I'll get you a response as quickly as possible.

 You can read our full "press release" here on our facebook at https://www.facebook.com/astrogaming

 - Mitchell"
  
 He also says.
  
 "You won't gain true surround sound as the rear channels and centre speaker will be missing. It'll be stereo so 2.1 at maximum although the audio quality should remain mostly the same and once Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Headphone have done their magic, the audio should sound even better and more natural just like on the Xbox 360.

 - Mitchell"
  
 These statements are a little misleading. At one point he says you won't have true surround. Then goes on to say it should sound better and more natural. The language he uses here is really confusing. should we have been using stereo all along? Got to love PR speak. A dts-x device can't come fast enough.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Dolby Pro Logic II won't help you if the stereo stream isn't encoded in PLII to begin with, like PS2, GCN and Wii games tend to do. Not sure what made the PR rep think that.
  
 While Microsoft's decision to support DTS and NOT Dolby is extremely baffling, frankly, I think that if developers make better use of the audio DSPs next-gen hardware has to offer combined with new software like AstoundSound, we won't NEED Mixamps or other such devices because the games themselves will provide proper 3D headphone surround instead of forcing us to make do with virtual 5.1/7.1 home theater speaker systems as the basis of our in-game headphone surround experience.
  
 That frankly should have happened a decade ago...better late than never, I suppose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow. Come on Astro. Dolby Pro logic II is NOT the same as Dolby digital encoded to Dolby headphone. There is a pretty noticeable difference, and DPLII adds even more reverb and sounds more artifical than proper Dolby headphone. The only good thing about DPLII is that the surround cues can be as good DD->DH.

Unless the XB1 is feeding the optical out a Dolby Digital signal that was converted to DPLII, the Mixamp won't do any damn thing to a basic stereo signal, other than add needless reverb with zero benefit in positional cues.


----------



## Hailin

I posted on their facebook wall, this is really silly to be honest. To say there is no difference is PR BS.
  
 I agree Nameless. Both are packing AMD chips so I don't see why they couldn't pull off AstoundSound. But I am not a programmer so I really have no idea. I do think it is time for dev studios to look at other surround options.


----------



## Hoffen00

Hello everyone I would like some help to pick a headphone out of the ones I have seen here in this guide.

 1. AKG K 702
 2. Audio Technica ATH-AD700
 3. Sennheiser HD598
 And then two that I have not seen in the guide but I have heard good stuff about
 4. QPAD QH-90 Pro
 5.  Turtle Beach Ear Force Z Seven
  
  
 I will use the headphones mostly for playing FPS  games ( PC ONLY) like CoD/BF, but also useing them for some music/movies. I dont have a sound card or a mixamp.
 Which one of these 5 would be the best ? Detail-whoring very important =)
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know much about those, as I'm used to my external virtual surround tech, but this is some pure misinformation on Astros part, and they should be ashamed.

If anything, they need to hurry up and release a Mixamp that decodes DTS into Dolby headphone like older marantz receivers and the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 do). Pay for the DTS licensing, keep the business going. This would probably be the *cheapest* route for them, instead of investing in some new surround tech. Not saying I don't want something new, but in a business standpoint, adding DTS decoding into Dolby Headphone is simple, I'm sure. My assumption on how receivers and the SU-DH1 do it, is by convertting DTS into Dolby Digital, which then converts to Dolby Headphone. Having tested the SU-DH1 (thanks Nameless), the DTS signal and the Dolby signal being converted to DH, sounded exactly the same, which is why I'm sure DTS was changed to DD before going through the DH conversion.

Either that or release an add on device with the sole purpose of allowing older Mixamps to decode DTS.

Consumers in general are stupid and uninformed, but for the dedicated headphone user who relies on Astros, they'll be able to tell the difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hoffen00 said:


> Hello everyone I would like some help to pick a headphone out of the ones I have seen here in this guide.
> 
> 
> 1. AKG K 702
> ...




I don't particularly like any of them for music/movies. If anything, I'd get the K702, buy some Anniversary pads to give them the added warmth/fun. Or just buy the K702 Anniversary or K712 Pro outright.

You definitely need to invest in a soundcard/surround device to get the most out of them. Not sure what you plan on doing there.

I can't comment on 4 and 5 as I haven't heard them. 1, 2, and 3 are all very good at sound-whoring.

Personally, I sound like a broken record, but the MA900 is both a sound-whoring headphone and still enjoyable for music/movies, IMHO. It's not expensive, and doesn't need a beefy amp. Something as simple as the Xonar DG/U3 would basically be fine.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> I don't particularly like any of them for music/movies. If anything, I'd get the K702, buy some Anniversary pads to give them the added warmth/fun. Or just buy the K702 Anniversary or K712 Pro outright.
> 
> You definitely need to invest in a soundcard/surround device to get the most out of them. Not sure what you plan on doing there.
> 
> ...


 

 Which soundcard(s) would you recommend for the K702 ? thats not too expensive


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I myself use the Xonar U3, which is an external device. The soundcard equivalent is the Xonar DG. That is DEFINITELY not enough fo the K702. You need something powerful. Powerful and not expensive, are opposites. the K702 is on of the worst headphones to underpower, so I'd advise on something else if you're not gona push them properly, because it's a waste of money.

I'm not knowledgable on soundcards at all. Ask on the Nameless guide.


----------



## conquerator2

For closed headphones I recommend the Audio Technica ATH-A900X.
It's both an enjoyable and a very good sound whoring headphone...
The 3D wing support system is a bit temperament though. Other than that, for $189 it is a phenomenal value, can't recommend it enough.
U3 drives it okay. Very good positional cues. Excellent all rounder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd take a Slyr over the A900x any day of the week. Just saying.


----------



## benbenkr

Well, it looks like Microsoft has made another 180 and giving another excuse; but at least Dolby is coming back post launch.
  


> * **Dolby Digital is coming post launch. This was a SW scheduling issue pure and simple, and I know people are disappointed, but we will have it.*
> 
> Anyone with an HDMI receiver should be fine, as we pass the uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 through HDMI as well as DTS. Even if you have a Dolby only HDMI receiver (which I'm not sure exists), you will still get 5.1 or 7.1 sound since those receivers should accept uncompressed surround.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Heh.
 Question is, when?
  
 Oh and that statement by Astro is one of the dumbest things I've heard all week. PLII = DH? Seriously?
 It's comments like this that I can never take gaming headset companies seriously, yet they want to be compared to companies who actually makes audio equipments for a living.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure whomever made that statement by Astro was just a PR guy. The techs know better that to make up some BS like that.

Has there been any news on the Wii U side of gaming headset audio, considering that it only does PCM?


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I'd take a Slyr over the A900x any day of the week. Just saying.


 
 I know you would.
 I have no idea how you've come to your statements about 900X though.
 I still think to this day that something must have been amiss.
 But that's preferences i guess...


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> I know you would.
> I have no idea how you've come to your statements about 900X though.
> I still think to this day that something must have been amiss.
> But that's preferences i guess...



I use a sennheiser u320 headset with a cheap cyp aud3-192 dac..it's so I can use optical on my xbox360 with my headset..it sounds decent enough!


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> conquerator2 said:
> 
> 
> > I know you would.
> ...


 
 I use the U3 on its own or a Clip+ [which has a bit better SQ]
 But for games the U3 [slightly worse, PC] or TB DSS2 [slightly better PS3] is good enough :]


----------



## Hailin

If I was a Xbone prepurchaser and a mixamp owner I would be so horribly annoyed right now with Microsoft and their constant back tracking and PR spinning.


----------



## conquerator2

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-21-xbox-one-dolby-digital-headset-support-coming-post-launch

Some good news for.Xbox owners after a while.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> I myself use the Xonar U3, which is an external device. The soundcard equivalent is the Xonar DG. That is DEFINITELY not enough fo the K702. You need something powerful. Powerful and not expensive, are opposites. the K702 is on of the worst headphones to underpower, so I'd advise on something else if you're not gona push them properly, because it's a waste of money.
> 
> I'm not knowledgable on soundcards at all. Ask on the Nameless guide.


 
 So the Xonar U3 you have is not enough for the K702 ?  Xonar U3 is not expensive in my eyes, but if I dont get a soundcard which one of the other headsets I suggested would be best then if we include the MA900 aswell? or maybe something like Asus Xonar DX is enough for k702 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only Xonar good enough for the K702 is the Essence STX. and even then that is not gonna bring the K702 to near its best ability.

I suggest the MA900 for sheerly practical reasons.


----------



## papouse84

Hi Mad Lust Envy, first of all just want to say a massive thanks for this great guide. I'm on the search for my first set of gaming headphones and didn't really know anything about what's good or not so this was mighty helpful!
  
 The set I was leaning towards were the Astro 40's - I really liked the integrated mic and as far as I understand it the mixamp is a good product. However, I've been unsure due to compatability issues with the next gen consoles and I'm worried that it's going to be outdated very soon... Also keep reading from so many people that they're 'a crap gaming headset'. I was then pretty sure I was going to buy the Sennheiser 598's, but buying a separate clip-on mic is not something I'm that keen on.
  
 So the ones I'm looking at now are the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1 - they were released here in Australia yesterday I believe. I only just found out about these the other day, and they seem like a good fit for me.
  
 What do you reckon? Should I take a gamble on them or wait for some more reviews to come out?
  
 Here's the link to the product page http://audio-technica.com.au/products/gamers/ath-adg1/


----------



## conquerator2

papouse84 said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy, first of all just want to say a massive thanks for this great guide. I'm on the search for my first set of gaming headphones and didn't really know anything about what's good or not so this was mighty helpful!
> 
> The set I was leaning towards were the Astro 40's - I really liked the integrated mic and as far as I understand it the mixamp is a good product. However, I've been unsure due to compatability issues with the next gen consoles and I'm worried that it's going to be outdated very soon... Also keep reading from so many people that they're 'a crap gaming headset'. I was then pretty sure I was going to buy the Sennheiser 598's, but buying a separate clip-on mic is not something I'm that keen on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd go for it, but that's just me.
 Or its closed counterpart :]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ADG1 should be a very competent gaming headset, though it will lack bass, sound harsh, and sound a bit dry. The A40s are good headset with all the bells and whistles. As usual, you can't expect headsets to compare favorably to headphones. The ADG1 is basically an AD700x with an attached mic, which Audio Technca confirmed in a youtube video. I dunno the price difference.

As for the Mixamp, it works perfectly fine with the PS4, and will work with the XB1 in the future, once Microsoft adds Dolby Digital. As for the Wii U.... no luck, as they don't use Dolby or DTS.


----------



## martin vegas

I wouldn't even hesitate..snap them up for Christmas!


----------



## papouse84

Thanks for the quick response!
  
 The ADG1's are $279 and the A40+Mixamp is $329 here in oz. What's the better deal?
  
 Would it still be wise to get the mixamp if I get the ADG1's?


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> The only Xonar good enough for the K702 is the Essence STX. and even then that is not gonna bring the K702 to near its best ability.
> 
> I suggest the MA900 for sheerly practical reasons.


 

 So if we skip the part about which headset would fit for music/movies/video ( I dont really care that much about how the sound is for music/movies) and only go for FPS games would you still pick Sony MDR-MA900 over Sennheiser HD598 and  Audio Technica ATH-AD700? combined with a Xonar U3 or a Asus Xonar DS. I guess ill have to skip k702 since i would need a Essence STX to get as much juice out of it.


----------



## kenshinhimura

if you want to be able to change the headphones in the future, i would take the mixamp+a40


----------



## papouse84

conquerator2 said:


> I'd go for it, but that's just me.
> Or its closed counterpart :]


 
 Hehe, thanks conquerator2 - that's the kind of encouragement I need when I'm doing late night online shopping!
  
 The closed ones do look nicer, but from what I've read the open ones are better for FPS games?


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## conquerator2

papouse84 said:


> Hehe, thanks conquerator2 - that's the kind of encouragement I need when I'm doing late night online shopping!
> 
> The closed ones do look nicer, but from what I've read the open ones are better for FPS games?




Open ones should be the safer bet


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hoffen00 said:


> So if we skip the part about which headset would fit for music/movies/video ( I dont really care that much about how the sound is for music/movies) and only go for FPS games would you still pick Sony MDR-MA900 over Sennheiser HD598 and  Audio Technica ATH-AD700? combined with a Xonar U3 or a Asus Xonar DS. I guess ill have to skip k702 since i would need a Essence STX to get as much juice out of it.




If its for FPS mainly, the ADG1 or AD700X are pretty much a guaranteed success.


----------



## martin vegas

I know this isn't anything to do with headphones..they are bringing gulf of oman metro and Caspian border back in bf4!


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> If its for FPS mainly, the ADG1 or AD700X are pretty much a guaranteed success.


 
 The AD700X are the same as ATH-AD700 but better i guess ? And ADG1 and AD700x are basically equal ? Guess ill go with the AD700x then


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hoffen00 said:


> The AD700X are the same as ATH-AD700 but better i guess ? And ADG1 and AD700x are basically equal ? Guess ill go with the AD700x then



The AD700x doesn't have a mic.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> The AD700x doesn't have a mic.


 
 One last thing, you said the only Xonar thats good enough for K702 is the STX. Is there any soundcards like creative or any other brand that has better soundcards then the STX for the k702 ?


----------



## davisman

hoffen00 said:


> One last thing, you said the only Xonar thats good enough for K702 is the STX. Is there any soundcards like creative or any other brand that has better soundcards then the STX for the k702 ?


 
 Your best bet is to get a ~$40 sound card that will handle surround sound tech and have a digital out, then get a better external amp/dac. If you are set on going the K702 route, thats what you will be forced to do. 
  
 I had the k702 annie paired with the STX for a while before I decided to upgrade to a Schiit stack. It makes a noticeable difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. Something as cheap as the DG, then buy an optical dac and amp, like a Compass 2, or for cheapest, a Fiio D03K and some powerful amp.


----------



## Chubtoad

god damn resogun is addicting!
  
 (yes, that has nothing to do with headphones)


----------



## NamelessPFG

hoffen00 said:


> One last thing, you said the only Xonar thats good enough for K702 is the STX. Is there any soundcards like creative or any other brand that has better soundcards then the STX for the k702 ?


 
  
 I'm pretty sure the entire Sound Blaster Z-series lineup has the same headphone amp chip used in the Xonar Essence ST(X)...and the FiiO E9, for that matter.
  
 Still, as others have said, I'd recommend getting an external amp if that's what your headphones want. You don't want to replace your sound card every time you need to upgrade amps now, do you?


----------



## AxelCloris

So I bought two stupid things. Thing 1 and Thing 2. The first will be here Saturday, the second sometime in the next 2 weeks. I expect them to both be terrible. But if they're not, sweet! They're both "3D stereo" and driverless, I don't expect anything amazing from them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> One last thing, you said the only Xonar that's good enough for K702 is the STX. Is there any sound cards like creative or any other brand that has better sound cards then the STX for the k702 ?


 
 The Essence STX (& ST) and the Creative SB-ZxR all use the TI 6120A2 headphone amplifier, which would seem to be the best you could do, for a sound card (internal or external),
 There are external head amps (and DACs) that are better then the STX, ST, ZxR and they of course cost more money.
  
 Personally, I think getting a Xonar DX or D1 sound card and an external headphone amplifier, like the Magni or O2, is a little better option, over the Essence STX
  
 The DX, D1, STX & ST all use the same CMI8788 audio processer, but the STX & ST does have a better DAC chip.
  
 The Magni & O2 have an output impedance of less then 1-ohm  which should be better for low impedance headphones (around 50-Ohms or less), over the STX, ST & ZxR's 10-Ohm impedance.
 And you can use the external head amp with more then just your win PC.


----------



## PurpleAngel

namelesspfg said:


> I'm pretty sure the entire Sound Blaster Z-series lineup has the same headphone amp chip used in the Xonar Essence ST(X)...and the FiiO E9, for that matter.
> 
> Still, as others have said, I'd recommend getting an external amp if that's what your headphones want. You don't want to replace your sound card every time you need to upgrade amps now, do you?


 

 The SB-Z and SB-Zx, use a different headphone amplifier (cheaper?), then the ST(X) and ZxR and E9/E09K


----------



## Change is Good

So, I just opened the replacement iCAN that arrived yesterday and all is not well with this unit, either. Everything works as it should, except for the damn volume knob. It is somewhat loose and the base scrapes against its surface every time I turn it. This causes a static noise whenever I try to adjust the volume; and the physical scraping when I do so just makes me cringe.
  
 I contacted Avatar Acoustics and they're looking to see if I can get a different product as this is my second time having an issue with the iCAN. I made sure to complain about having to come out of my pocket to ship back, yet, another defective unit when they are supposed to be pretty much "bulletproof" according to the person I spoke to.
  
 Glad I decided to check it out before posting a classified. I was going to sell it unopened... YIKES!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So, I just opened the replacement iCAN that arrived yesterday and all is not well with this unit, either. Everything works as it should, except for the damn volume knob. It is somewhat loose and the base scrapes against its surface every time I turn it. This causes a static noise whenever I try to adjust the volume; and the physical scraping when I do so just makes me cringe.
> 
> I contacted Avatar Acoustics and they're looking to see if I can get a different product as this is my second time having an issue with the iCAN. I made sure to complain about having to come out of my pocket to ship back, yet, another defective unit when they are supposed to be pretty much "bulletproof" according to the person I spoke to.
> 
> Glad I decided to check it out before posting a classified. I was going to sell it unopened... YIKES!


 
  
 Wow, that's horrible. I'm glad you checked it out too. That's really sucky, man.


----------



## Change is Good

Hopefully they can make an exception and give me something different, then I can forgive them


----------



## chicolom

My replacement iCan had a looser volume knob than my original one, but I fixed it it by putting a rubber gasket type thing underneath it that adds friction when you turn it.  Now it feels fine.  The scraping knob sounds kind of annoying though :\


----------



## NamelessPFG

purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z and SB-Zx, use a different headphone amplifier (cheaper?), then the ST(X) and ZxR and E9/E09K


 
  
 Oh, so it's just the ZxR. I hate ambiguous manufacturer spec sheets that just say "up to 600-ohm".
  
 Still, it feels like the TI TPA6120 is practically everywhere these days...


----------



## Evshrug

hoffen00 said:


> One last thing, you said the only Xonar thats good enough for K702 is the STX. Is there any soundcards like creative or any other brand that has better soundcards then the STX for the k702 ?



Let's just get one thing straight: the K702 (and Q701, and other variants) is a very good headphone, and you'll probably be impressed with whatever you plug it into. When I first got my Q701 and compared it to the AD700 I had already, I could tell the Q701 was immediately a bit more refined, with better bass prominence, and a good bit more engaging sound – even when they were just plugged into an old iPod Video (older version of an iPod Classic). That said, it's performance scales up with better parts in the rest of your system, too.

So, straight into my iPod, the Q701 was already better than the AD700 in almost all technical respects, but to hear a good listening volume I had to have the iPod volume turned up much higher. And even without having heard a better amp (and already sounding better than the AD700), it felt like there was something holding the Q701 back. After adding a better amp, the benefit was more control against loud sounds clipping or distorting, more solid bass impact, less "glare" or harshness to the treble, and better instrument separation and soundstage. I've bought better amps and now even a better DAC, and I continue to hear improvement with the same headphone.

If I knew then what I know now, spending less money on a surround processor and more on a separate DAC or at least a separate Amp provides the best value. I have been happy using Creative's Sound Blaster "Recon3D USB External" and "Z PCI-E Internal" sound cards with a tube hybrid amp connected to the headphone-out jack to sweeten the sound, but I could also send the surround-processed signal out from the Z to an external DAC if I wanted. I use Creative's products because I prefer their surround processing, but plenty of people prefer Dolby Headphone (like Mad Lust Envy). If you want DH, then the Asus Xonar U3 (for PC) is the cheapest way to get DH surround processing *and* you can use the optical out port to connect different DACs that are even better than the decent ones used in the STX and ZxR (or you could just plug an amp straight into the U3's headphone port, but the U3's built-in DAC is nothing special). The good part about separate pieces is you can upgrade one part and keep using the rest.





namelesspfg said:


> Oh, so it's just the ZxR. I hate ambiguous manufacturer spec sheets that just say "up to 600-ohm".
> 
> Still, it feels like the TI TPA6120 is practically everywhere these days...



Yeah, the Z uses an opamp from Maxim.


----------



## Evshrug

papouse84 said:


> Hehe, thanks conquerator2 - that's the kind of encouragement I need when I'm doing late night online shopping!
> 
> The closed ones do look nicer, but from what I've read the open ones are better for FPS games?



I had closed A700 and open AD700 headphones back to back, and what you gain which is particularly useful for competitive surround gaming is greater ease telling sounds apart even amidst chaos (separation), a wider and more round "out of head" sound experience (soundstage), and less emphasis on bass more emphasis on details.

Unless you just think built-in mics are cooler, headsets are overpriced compared to just buying headphones and a ModMic or a cheap lapel mic like Mad's DX or my cheap Neweer lapel mic I found in a 3 pack on amazon for $4. I also think a separate lapel mic is more straightforward to adapt to console use, and it's easy to keep it neat by coiling it around the headphone cable.

If you just want a gaming headphone, IMO an AD700 or the paint-job AD700x are all you need, especially with something like a Creative Recon3D USB to process surround and tweak bass. The Recon3D USB works with computers and consoles that use Dolby on their optical outputs, and come with all the cables and adapters you need. The Turtle Beach DSS is a nice barebones option for consoles (game sound only) and the Asus U3 is the PC barebones option, and the Astro Mixamp is a console option if you can't use game-audio settings to balance game and chat volume (halo4, don't NEED this feature with CoD games because you can turn down game volume in options).

If you like music too, keep in mind my response to Hoffen.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Let's just get one thing straight: the K702 (and Q701, and other variants) is a very good headphone, and you'll probably be impressed with whatever you plug it into. When I first got my Q701 and compared it to the AD700 I had already, I could tell the Q701 was immediately a bit more refined, with better bass prominence, and a good bit more engaging sound – even when they were just plugged into an old iPod Video (older version of an iPod Classic). That said, it's performance scales up with better parts in the rest of your system, too.
> 
> So, straight into my iPod, the Q701 was already better than the AD700 in almost all technical respects, but to hear a good listening volume I had to have the iPod volume turned up much higher. And even without having heard a better amp (and already sounding better than the AD700), it felt like there was something holding the Q701 back. After adding a better amp, the benefit was more control against loud sounds clipping or distorting, more solid bass impact, less "glare" or harshness to the treble, and better instrument separation and soundstage. I've bought better amps and now even a better DAC, and I continue to hear improvement with the same headphone.


 

 I had a similar impression going from the MA900 to the K612, I like it better than the MA900 straight out of the ipod. The K612 was just more refined and the better the system I plugged it in, the better it gets.


----------



## Evshrug

Kman1211,
Thanks for backing me up. The MA900 is a solid headphone and good all-rounder, but I found my AKGs more involving. I'd like to try a K612 (and K240 studio), even though I don't really have to. I feel like there's good value to be had there.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Kman1211,
> Thanks for backing me up. The MA900 is a solid headphone and good all-rounder, but I found my AKGs more involving. I'd like to try a K612 (and K240 studio), even though I don't really have to. I feel like there's good value to be had there.


 

 True, it's a solid headphone, but not quite at the K612s or K7xx series level of sound. I found AKGs more involving too, I always found there is a certain euphony to their sound I could never truly describe and I've heard it to varying degrees on every single AKG I have heard. I liked the K612 better than the Q701 personally, found them more neutral and natural sounding, the two headphones are actually on par sonically just a bit different and which you like better comes to preference. The K240 studio is a tier or so below sonically compared to the Q701 and K612, it's heavily emphasized in the mid and upper bass and has a treble spike, it's what I consider a more fun headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

Chat's workin through the mixamp now with the 1.51 update on the PS4

Sony > MS


----------



## Evshrug

Sha-weeet!


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I'd like to try a K612 (and K240 studio), even though I don't really have to. I feel like there's good value to be had there.


 
  
 The K240 is a decent headphone, but the K712 really does _everything _better.  Similar warmish signature but better extension on either ends, better technicalities, and much better soundstage.  Also, the K240s shallow pleather pads are no match for the K712s roomy velour pads on comfort.
  
 To be fair the K712 costs _slightly _more


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I blew both my KSC35's drivers... I didn't realize they were plugged into my laptop, and my laptop doesn't lower the volume when things are plugged into the headphone jack. I tend to run my laptop at max volume when using the built in speakers. Long story short... yeah...

Better send them in to Koss... again. Gonna try and see if I can send both my KSC35s in one package. Thank god for the Koss lifetime warranty. Hopefully get two headphones fixed for the price of just one shipment.

Of course, I NEVER plug my real headphones to my laptop this way, as I use my E17 at home. Only my Koss clip ons at work.

I wanna cry. But at least my Kossheiser PX-175 Frankenstein is working well.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I blew both my KSC35's drivers... I didn't realize they were plugged into my laptop, and my laptop doesn't lower the volume when things are plugged into the headphone jack. I tend to run my laptop at max volume when using the built in speakers. Long story short... yeah...


 
  
 Holy crap!   How powerful is your laptop?!
  
 My laptop can only dream of blowing drivers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The drivers on the 35s are super loud at like 25 volume on my laptop. The laptop was at 100%... So it was a HELL of a lot of sudden power pushed to the Koss drivers, which you know aren't the strongest drivers out there. They are prone to rattle for any reason, and with this incident... well... yeah.

I take special care of all my headphones, though I'm a bit abusive to my Koss clip ons, but not THIS abusive.

They are my basically 8 hour a day workhorse headphones, so it hurts me a LOT that they're damaged, and I have to wait. My original KSC35 has been messed up basically all year (left driver doesn't work, and exposed wire on the same side), but I was waiting for either the KSC75 or my Sportapro to mess up. Now's the time to get them fixed... though obviously, the 75 was gutted for parts for my PX175.

I sent Koss an email to see if I just have to pay to ship once for both cans, or if I have to pay for both. Still, $18 for two KSC35s (one being sent as a Sportapro) is nothing.


----------



## Hoffen00

So if i got K702 together with the STX soundcard and EHP-O2 amp would that work nice or do i still need something else ? Also would i need the STX or could i get a slightly cheaper soundcard like the Asus Xonar DX ? And how big is the difference between k712 pro and the k702 ? In swedish stores the k712 pro costs like 200$ more then the k702 would the 200$ be worth it ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hoffen00 said:


> So if i got K702 together with the STX soundcard and EHP-O2 amp would that work nice or do i still need something else ? Also would i need the STX or could i get a slightly cheaper soundcard like the Asus Xonar DX ? And how big is the difference between k712 pro and the k702 ? In swedish stores the k712 pro costs like 200$ more then the k702 would the 200$ be worth it ?




Buying the STX and the O2 is moot, as the STX already has a powerful amp, and the O2 isn't exactly a good match for the K702 FWIH. If anything, you don't need the STX. Since you're using an external amp, buy something like the DG instead. Also, it'd be best if you bought an external dac with an optical input, that way you don't have to double amp from the soundcard to your amplifier.

Something like the DG -> optical out -> dac with optical input -> amp


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> Buying the STX and the O2 is moot, as the STX already has a powerful amp, and the O2 isn't exactly a good match for the K702 FWIH. If anything, you don't need the STX. Since you're using an external amp, buy something like the DG instead. Also, it'd be best if you bought an external dac with an optical input, that way you don't have to double amp from the soundcard to your amplifier.
> 
> Something like the DG -> optical out -> dac with optical input -> amp


 
 My motherboard does not have a PCI slot so i would need to go for something with PCIE 1x like Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar DGX which should be fine aswell instead of the Dg ? Which amp should i get then if not the O2 ? And I dont really know which dac i should take so can you give some examples. When you say optical out thats just a cable between the soundcard and the dac and then another cable between dac to amp and then headphones ?


----------



## aaaronlucas

After surfing the internet for what feels like years, I've decided on a pair of Sony MA-900s mostly for gaming (all genres) but also for movies/music too. I'll be playing on the PC for the majority but will also be doing some console gaming.
  
 I've got a few questions that I'm hoping somebody can clarify for me.
  
 I've got the Asus Xonar DGX in my PC and have read that the Soundblaster Z is great for gaming, currently on offer at £60. Is it worth the upgrade? I play a lot of CS and thoroughly enjoy hearing positional cues when gaming.
  
 Secondly, when I purchase my MA900's would I need any kind of Virtual Surround Sound devices to use with my console? Would the same thing work well with my PC and therefore skip the soundcard?
  
 I'm buying the MA900's later today, so excited to jump in!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno about the Creative soundcards. I'd be happy with that Xonar card you already have.

Yes, you will need a virtual surround device for consoles. Cheapest being a used Turtle Beach DSS on Ebay, for around $25. No voice chat for anything that isn't a Turtle Beach headset.


----------



## aaaronlucas

Thanks for the speedy reply, I may just hold off on the sound card option then. It was that I've been lead to believe that the Soundblaster Z is a top notch card for placement when compared to the Xonar.
  
 Just to check, "no voice chat for anything that isn't Turtle Beach", is that when using a Turtle Beach DSS? So that means that if I go a bit more upmarket I can use voice chat?


----------



## conquerator2

aaaronlucas said:


> Thanks for the speedy reply, I may just hold off on the sound card option then. It was that I've been lead to believe that the Soundblaster Z is a top notch card for placement when compared to the Xonar.
> 
> Just to check, "no voice chat for anything that isn't Turtle Beach", is that when using a Turtle Beach DSS? So that means that if I go a bit more upmarket I can use voice chat?




You can always use USB mics or PS Eye


----------



## ethan7000

aaaronlucas said:


> After surfing the internet for what feels like years, I've decided on a pair of Sony MA-900s mostly for gaming (all genres) but also for movies/music too. I'll be playing on the PC for the majority but will also be doing some console gaming.
> 
> I've got a few questions that I'm hoping somebody can clarify for me.
> 
> ...



Do you use Dolby Headphone on your DGX? If you like it, the DX would be a better upgrade. The DX and Z both sound better than the DGX, but only the Xonar cards have Dolby Headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> So if i got K702 together with the STX sound card and EHP-O2 amp would that work nice or do i still need something else ? Also would i need the STX or could i get a slightly cheaper sound card like the Asus Xonar DX ? And how big is the difference between k712 pro and the k702 ? In swedish stores the k712 pro costs like 200$ more then the k702 would the 200$ be worth it ?


 
 Maybe get the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 external DAC/amp ($255+shipping).
 You can connect it to just about any low cost sound card, or even directly to your computer's motherboard.
 As it has USB and S/PDIF (optical and coaxial) inputs, can be used with more then just your Win PC.
 Dual WM8741 DAC chips and a headphone amplifier that easily drives my 600-Ohm headphones.
 http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm


----------



## Hoffen00

purpleangel said:


> Maybe get the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 external DAC/amp ($255+shipping).
> You can connect it to just about any low cost sound card, or even directly to your computer's motherboard.
> As it has USB and S/PDIF (optical and coaxial) inputs, can be used with more then just your Win PC.
> Dual WM8741 DAC chips and a headphone amplifier that easily drives my 600-Ohm headphones.
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB15.32EN.htm


 
 So geting this Audio-GD NFB-15.32 + lets say soundcard: PCI-E 1x Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar DGX and then K702 would work great ? Nothing else would be needed yes ?


----------



## Evshrug

hoffen00 said:


> My motherboard does not have a PCI slot so i would need to go for something with PCIE 1x like Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar DGX which should be fine aswell instead of the Dg ? Which amp should i get then if not the O2 ? And I dont really know which dac i should take so can you give some examples. When you say optical out thats just a cable between the soundcard and the dac and then another cable between dac to amp and then headphones ?



You got the wiring setup correct. Optical is the port and cable that uses fibre optics and red light to send a digital signal out (light blinks on/off, binary like all digital signals), so you'd need a DAC with an optical input too. I'm not aware of what choices there are in the market for good/inexpensive DAC with optical input... you'll want to ask in the DAC forums.

Personally, I'd budget for a good Soundcard (with analogue and optical outs) and Amp now, and pick up a separate DAC later. The O2 is a technically very good amp, it's just that it's quite neutral and some people prefer using an amp with the K702 that adds some warmth. I thought the FiiO E12 sounds nice with nice options for my Q701 (the FiiO E09k, which I haven't tried, looks good on paper), and my tube amp is my favorite to use. If you want more options that synergize well with the K702, you can ask in the amp forum or the K702 appreciation thread.

Anyway, it's cool you've made a headphone choice, I really love my AKGs for gaming AND everything else, I think you will too!



aaaronlucas said:


> After surfing the internet for what feels like years, I've decided on a pair of Sony MA-900s mostly for gaming (all genres) but also for movies/music too. I'll be playing on the PC for the majority but will also be doing some console gaming.
> 
> I've got a few questions that I'm hoping somebody can clarify for me.
> 
> ...





The choice between Creative and Asus essentially boils down to THX/SBX headphone surround or Dolby headphone surround. It's harder to find good samples of Creative's surround processing, but I've collected samples of YouTube videos in my journal thread (linked in my signature) so you can choose your preference. Personally, I chose a Creative Recon3D USB because it works with Windows, Mac, and consoles (except the new XB One), and overall I prefer it's processing over DH, but processing really is down to personal preference. I just got a Sound Blaster Z for my computer, it's too early to report anything except that it's good. The DAC is technically better than the Recon3D USB (and several of the lower end Xonar products), but as I've only had the time to use it once I haven't really been able to pick out how it makes an improvement. I doubt the upgrade from DGX to Z would be significant, unless (like me) you prefer Creative's processing and driver software.

What console do you play?


----------



## Murder Mike

hoffen00 said:


> So geting this Audio-GD NFB-15.32 + lets say soundcard: PCI-E 1x Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar DGX and then K702 would work great ? Nothing else would be needed yes ?


 

  
 The brother of the NFB-15.32 is the NFB-11.32, which sounds great with the K702 Annies. It has a single Sabre ES9018 DAC and has no problem driving anything I've plugged into it. From what few users have posted, the 11.32 has a bit more detail and neutrality over the warmer 15.32. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Audio-GD product if I was in the market for one. 
  
 Either unit + the sound card would be all you need.


----------



## Hoffen00

I also forgot to ask which ones would be better for (PC) FPS gaming K702, K712 or Q701 ? Right now my choise is between one of those headsets and then PCI-E 1x Asus Xonar DX or Asus Xonar DGX  and NFB-15.32 or NFB-11.32.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



[/http://youtu.be/hEwVKf5acBUSPOILER]


----------



## AxelCloris

New HD650 for less than the current Amazon price for a new X1? I hope this turns out to be a wise impulse buy.


----------



## Hoffen00

martin vegas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [/http://youtu.be/hEwVKf5acBUSPOILER]


 
 Nice save, guess ill go with DGX then.


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## spooky655

The DX mic works fine for me in Skype, but is very very quiet in COD Black Ops 2 and Ghosts even when I hold it up to my mouth. Any idea why it is not working?


----------



## Hoffen00

I have also been looking at Fiio E12 Mont Blanc or Fiio E17, would they work nice with the K702 + maybe the STX soundcard ? Instead of geting the NFB-15.32 or NFB-11.32


----------



## Murder Mike

hoffen00 said:


> I have also been looking at Fiio E12 Mont Blanc or Fiio E17, would they work nice with the K702 + maybe the STX soundcard ? Instead of geting the NFB-15.32 or NFB-11.32


 
 They're ok, but not going to drive it to it's potential. Also the STX + E17/E12 would be a waste. The STX is just as powerful on it's own IIRC. Personally, I would grab a Xonar DG or DGX and one of the Audio-GD products.


----------



## Hoffen00

murder mike said:


> They're ok, but not going to drive it to it's potential. Also the STX + E17/E12 would be a waste. The STX is just as powerful on it's own IIRC. Personally, I would grab a Xonar DG or DGX and one of the Audio-GD products.


 

 Ok thanks, which one would you pick for mostly (PC) gaming and some music/movies. AKG K702 or Q701 or K712 or K702 annies?


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> I have also been looking at Fiio E12 Mont Blanc or Fiio E17, would they work nice with the K702 + maybe the STX soundcard ? Instead of getting the NFB-15.32 or NFB-11.32


 
 If you got the Fiio E12, then you would not really need to buy an STX, the cheaper Xonar DX or D1 would do the job.
 If you got the FiiO E17, then the you could get the cheaper Xonar DG or DGX.
  
 Or a Creative Labs Sound blaster Z (SB1500, retail box) sound card, $100, on it's own, should, I would assume, drive the K702 decently.


----------



## Murder Mike

hoffen00 said:


> Ok thanks, which one would you pick for mostly (PC) gaming and some music/movies. AKG K702 or Q701 or K712 or K702 annies?


 
 I have the Annies and they're wonderful. Judging from responses in this thread, the K712 is very similar. The Q701 is also similar, but it has the headband bumps and regular foam earpads. You can search around to see how much of a difference there is between them.


----------



## Hoffen00

murder mike said:


> I have the Annies and they're wonderful. Judging from responses in this thread, the K712 is very similar. The Q701 is also similar, but it has the headband bumps and regular foam earpads. You can search around to see how much of a difference there is between them.


 
 hmm think I need to be abit cheap and skip k712/ annies and go for Q701 or k702. Even after looking around im still not sure which one of the two to take :I


----------



## Murder Mike

hoffen00 said:


> hmm think I need to be abit cheap and skip k712/ annies and go for Q701 or k702. Even after looking around im still not sure which one of the two to take :I


 
  
 Another option for amping is soundcard --> optical --> FiiO D3 --> RCA --> Schiit Magni/Objective 2 amp.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Mad Lust Envy, have you read this?
  
 One of us needs to get him an AKG K612 Pro now.


----------



## p0wah

If the M50s had better soundstage i would buy them in a heartbeat but unfortunately thats not the case. Im not looking for a massive soundstage, just one where its relatively easy to pinpoint where footsteps are coming from in Counter-Strike for example. The M50s seem almost perfect apart from the soundstage, they have exactly what i want judging by this guide. The bass, comfort, closed isolation and very sturdy build quality! Budget would be about $150.
  
 So what would you recommend?


----------



## Hoffen00

Think my final choise will be the K702 because you can swap out the cable if needed right ? And then a Asus Xonar DGX and lastly im not sure if i should take the Audio-GD NFB-11.32 or the Audio-GD NFB-15.32


----------



## martin vegas

If it was me I would get the stx on it's own with the headset and be happy with that..but that's just me..it's your choice my friend..either way it's going to sound good..the stx has got good sound,it uses a burr brown dac..you won't get any interference with the stx, it's not poorly shielded and the audio technica headset is spot on!


----------



## Hoffen00

Then would it work to get the STX together with the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 / 11.32  or is it not worth it ?


----------



## Murder Mike

hoffen00 said:


> Then would it work to get the STX together with the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 / 11.32  or is it not worth it ?


 
 No, the STX is a soundcard that has surround features (Dolby Headphone) and has a decent DAC and amping. If you're going to use the superior DAC/AMP, just get a cheap soundcard to provide the headphone surround.


----------



## SaLX

Get the cheapest of cheap Xonar or OEM Sound Blaster Z or X-Fi then use optical out to your external Dac/Amp. All the digital processing is handled externally.
  
 *Edit* Not quite quick enuff for an inb4 MM.
  
 Kind of makes me wonder why we can't just buy the software to handle propriety Creative/Xonar stuff... or even a soundcard/standalone-like daughter board shorn of any analogue outs, just solely handling optical.


----------



## Zack117

Has anyone here already tried to connect his Astro Mixamp (2011) via USB to the PS4? Any confirmation for the consoles software support yet?
 I'm in EU so I have to wait for my unit until 29.


----------



## kenshinhimura

i believe MLE said it works with voice chat after update


----------



## AxelCloris

kenshinhimura said:


> i believe MLE said it works with voice chat after update


 
  
 Speaking of. Hey MLE, were you using the DX mic when you were playing the other day? Sounded nice and clear on the stream. I might pick one up.


----------



## Change is Good

zack117 said:


> Has anyone here already tried to connect his Astro Mixamp (2011) via USB to the PS4? Any confirmation for the consoles software support yet?
> I'm in EU so I have to wait for my unit until 29.




When you turn on your ps4 make sure you activate your dualshock 4 with your profile first. Then plug in the mixamp, turn it on, then activate it after your ps4 detects it.

Make sure you activate your dualshock 4 before the mixamp or else chat won't work. Also, make sure the mixamp is on before activating it on your profile or chat will not work either.

Your profile has to read the controller first and then the mixamp. I do not know why, but it works this way without any issues.


----------



## davisman

For everybody asking about akg K7x series headphones with an Asus STX, IMO they dont pair well together. I have the akg k702 annies, and I was driving them from the STX, and they sounded really harsh. It was fatiguing to listen too, and required a significant bass boost from 55hz to 156hz, and even them it was very sibilant. I wasn't able to listen to the headphones at any volume over 28 on lowest amp setting, and around 10 on middle setting. Obviously these need juice to run, but they were just plain harsh at most volumes. 
  
 I was about to return my annies, until I listened to them from my ibasso d12, and the difference was pretty big. It was smoother and I could detect the warmness everybody talks about. 
  
 Now I run the annies exactly how my sig states. Do I think you need to get an STX? No, not a chance and it would be a waste of money. If I did not already own the STX I would have went with a dg or dx. 
  
 ETA: the stx and the sennheiser hd598s pair really well, and I used this setup for roughly two years.


----------



## pervysage

Welp, got the Xbox One in today and so far it's a really nice system. Tons of features (that I originally thought were pretty lame and unnecessary) but I think MS has really got something good on their hands entertainment wise.
  
 Hooked up the Mixamp to the optical port (with Stereo output in the Xbox settings, DTS of course is not compatible and selecting it just gives you a bunch of crackling in your headphones). 
  
 What's all this I hear about Astro saying even without the Dolby Output (which Microsoft will be fixing in a future update, post launch) the Astro still takes the Stereo signal and uses Prologic II or something and still gives you Dolby Headphone? Anyone know what this is all about?
  
 I played some Ghosts and can still pick out footsteps and directional cues are still decent but I don't think they are at their best compared to how it was on the 360.
  
 Mic chat of course is a problem at this time with the Mixamp. I planned on just using my TH900's with Mixamp for game audio and just having the stock headset that comes with the Xbone around my neck so I can voice chat. But the Xbox One doesn't even have the option of having voice chat played through Speakers like the 360 does. Once you plug in the stock headset, all voice chat gets routed to that and I obviously can't have a headset and headphones on my head at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I guess I could use the Kinect, but I haven't been able to use it in Ghosts for voice chat for some reason.


----------



## Evshrug

Pervysage,
Hope you get chat working, keep us updated!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> Speaking of. Hey MLE, were you using the DX mic when you were playing the other day? Sounded nice and clear on the stream. I might pick one up.




Yeah, the cheap little DX mic. Works wonders. 

As for the K612, I'm sure it's great, but it won't beat the MA900s comfort, so I'm not interested. It will have a similar comfort as the Annies.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> Then would it work to get the STX together with the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 / 11.32  or is it not worth it ?


 
 If you get the 15.32 or 11.32, you will have not a use for a sound card's headphone amplifier or DAC.
 Chances are you will use a USB connection for music and the S/PDIF for gaming and movies.
 So get a low cost sound card for the surround sound features, like the Sound Blaster Z OEM, or a used Xonar DX.
 I'm planning of selling of my STX and using my old Xonar DX card, with my 15.32.


----------



## designbykai

Are you serious that THIS sounds good MLE/others who've heard it?? This is the one youre talking about?
http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
Wow..I'd expect it to do the job but sound like you're talking through a tin can at that price

I was thinking if trying my m100 inline mic on the stock cable for ps3 gaming but for PC I use a USB Blue eyeball. Not great but decent. Actually I also have this which I've used for videos its not bad, only downside is it needs small camera batteries.http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/664437-REG/Audio_Technica_ATR3350_ATR3350_Omnidirectional_Condenser_Lavalier.html

The modmic looks like a decent solution too but no way I'm sticking that thing on my th600s!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard myself through twitch. The DX mic sounded crisp and clear. That's all I need.


Now that I have unlocked Dead Silence and Amplify, I'm pwning sum nubz on Ghosts. coD is FINALLY back to having a clear advantage for headphone users (w/Dead Silence and Amplify). Make sure to buy those perks first.

Soundwhoring for the win. I did all this with the Kossheiser PX175.


----------



## Hoffen00

Quick question, the music i like to listen to is stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnSPJap_6fc and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHjpOzsQ9YI
 Which fits best for this kind of music the K702 or Q701 ?


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> I heard myself through twitch. The DX mic sounded crisp and clear. That's all I need.
> 
> 
> Now that I have unlocked Dead Silence and Amplify, I'm pwning sum nubz on Ghosts. coD is FINALLY back to having a clear advantage for headphone users (w/Dead Silence and Amplify). Make sure to buy those perks first.
> ...


 

 hope your useing stalker with those perks because that stuff is too good not to have. 8)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stalker on some, quick draw on others. I always need Scavenger and Sleight of Hand. That VEPR SMG with grip and rapid fire = the bawls. Also loving the MR28 for most TDM and long range maps. Most of the ARs are really good. The LMGs have two really good ones, and the SMGs are a bit nerfed but pretty amazing on tight corner maps.

Waiting to unlock the USR = ACOG. Reminds me of the bolt action Sniper in CoD4. Stable, one hit kill more often than not. Used it on private match as a test, and I fell in love.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> Stalker on some, quick draw on others. I always need Scavenger and Sleight of Hand. That VEPR SMG with grip and rapid fire = the bawls. Also loving the MR28 for most TDM and long range maps. Most of the ARs are really good. The LMGs have two really good ones, and the SMGs are a bit nerfed but pretty amazing on tight corner maps.
> 
> Waiting to unlock the USR = ACOG. Reminds me of the bolt action Sniper in CoD4. Stable, one hit kill more often than not. Used it on private match as a test, and I fell in love.


 

 I mostly use AK-12 / remington/ SA with foregrip + muzzle brake its really good and then stalker + focus + sleight of hand + some other perks. I only use a main gun so i can get more perks, its kind of a waste to get scavenger when you can just pick up other peoples weapons. Stalker is proly the strongest perk because nothing can really beat moving fast while aiming in.


----------



## SoFGR

hey what  happened to the first page ? WHERE'S THE GAMING GUIDE ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's there, but for some reason, it's not showing up. I hit edit, everything is there.

edit: removing my Koss clip-on videos (and just adding a link to the in the Koss clip on reviews), fixed the problem.

The links were correct, but Huddler crapped out for some reason. Anyways, at least it didn't disappear. I didn't have a back up guide. Thought someone hacked my account and deleted the guide. That'd have been a disaster.


----------



## Hoffen00

If I buy the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 should I tell them to add a TCXO for 20$ extra, is it worth it ?


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hoffen00 said:


> If I buy the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 should I tell them to add a TCXO for 20$ extra, is it worth it ?




I did just for the sake of having the best setup I can afford on the A-Gd products. I did all the extras on my Compass 2.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> I did just for the sake of having the best setup I can afford on the A-Gd products. I did all the extras on my Compass 2.


 
*Replace the RCA coaxial by BNC socket: *Cost is USD10/per  without shipping delay  

 Should I do that upgrade aswell then ? I dont really know what changing any of it will do.
  
 And thanks to someones great advice im considering another option which is audio technica ath-ad700x and xonar essence STX setup
 instead of the xonar DGX, Audio-GD NFB-15.32 and AKG K702 setup.

 Which of the two would be the better option ? So hard to choose because both of the setups seem really good. But I really like the K702 because you can change out the cable if it takes any damage. How would those two setups compare in games/music/movies  ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's for FPS mainly, the K702 isn't gonna give you an advantage over what the AD700x does for cheaper. they'll be comparable, with the K702 setup being better sounding overall for all purposes.

I didn't do the BNC upgrade, because RCA has it's real world use, and BNC seems to be a proprietary input. I have nothing that uses BNC, so it didn't make sense to buy it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> If I buy the Audio-GD NFB-15.32 should I tell them to add a TCXO for 20$ extra, is it worth it ?


 

 It's $20 for something that you will use for years, so might as well get it.
 Some people end up adding the TCXO after they buy the 15.32, so might as well buy it installed.
 This way they can test it before it's shipped out.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> If it's for FPS mainly, the K702 isn't gonna give you an advantage over what the AD700x does for cheaper. they'll be comparable, with the K702 setup being better sounding overall for all purposes.
> 
> I didn't do the BNC upgrade, because RCA has it's real world use, and BNC seems to be a proprietary input. I have nothing that uses BNC, so it didn't make sense to buy it.


 
 Funny thing is in sweden K702 and AD700x has the same price :I which is like 300$ if i convert the currency to USD. Ok then i wont get the BNC either thanks for the answer.


----------



## AxelCloris

designbykai said:


> Are you serious that THIS sounds good MLE/others who've heard it?? This is the one youre talking about?
> http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080
> Wow..I'd expect it to do the job but sound like you're talking through a tin can at that price


 
  
 I can also agree that he came through loud and clear. It didn't sound like he was standing in front of me of course, but it sounded better than many headset microphones I've heard people using over the years. So much so in fact, now that I've confirmed that's the mic he was using I've ordered one for myself. I seem to be buying headphones with dual entry now and the BoomPro isn't going to be useful at all on the HD650 or the Alpha Dogs. The MA900 is single entry, but not detachable without modding. And my wife has claimed my Modmic for work so I can no longer use it


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> *Replace the RCA coaxial by BNC socket: *Cost is USD10/per  without shipping delay
> 
> Should I do that upgrade as well then ? I don't really know what changing any of it will do.
> 
> ...


 
 I would say to pass on the BNC, As you do not really have a reason for swapping to the BNCs.
 The 15.32 do not provide any surround sound features, where as the Essence STX does.
 But I think the DGX/15.32/K702 is worth the extra cash and the DGX has Dolby Headphone 5.1 surround sound and in the future when you feel you have a need to upgrade to a newer sound card, you only need to buy the cheapest model.
 Plus there is the chance any headphones you use with the 15.32 might sound a little better then if you used the Essence STX.


----------



## davisman

@MLE the MR28 is a melt machine. Also try out the AK 12 with suppressor and grip. The vepr is a lot of fun, and it reminds me of the AK 74u of black ops. However it is weak, and has a slow time to kill. The Remington R5 is beastly, but I prefer the SA805 with red dot and muzzle brake. 
  
 Try the gambler perk out, its pretty cool.


----------



## vsha

Is the lawton stage 1 modded d7000 going to be as good as the stock d7000 for gaming performance, especially fun? Reports that the mod basically makes the headphones more reference-y make me kinda leery. Is the mod reversible by any chance?


----------



## Magdumper

I have not read through this thread except for first page and last two pages, but has there been any talk of HE-500s or CIEMs? I am wondering because compared to HE-500s, my Westone ES5s that have a more rolled of trebble are much much better at picking up on both positional audio and things like footsteps and gunshots.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

davisman said:


> @MLE the MR28 is a melt machine. Also try out the AK 12 with suppressor and grip. The vepr is a lot of fun, and it reminds me of the AK 74u of black ops. However it is weak, and has a slow time to kill. The Remington R5 is beastly, but I prefer the SA805 with red dot and muzzle brake.
> 
> Try the gambler perk out, its pretty cool.




The VEPr with rapid fire is not slow to kill. It sprays bullets so quickly (and mostly in a straight line), people just drop left and right. I have been absolutely dominating with the VEPR.

I like the AK12, but not with a suppressor. A suppressor in CoD tends to cause guns to take one extra bullet to kill people. There are not many instances where I feel the need to hide myself (as i don't ever stick to one place). I like the AK12 with muzzle break and grip. Not sure if I prefer it over the Remington with the same attachments.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I heard myself through twitch. The DX mic sounded crisp and clear. That's all I need.
> 
> Now that I have unlocked Dead Silence and Amplify, I'm pwning sum nubz on Ghosts. coD is FINALLY back to having a clear advantage for headphone users (w/Dead Silence and Amplify). Make sure to buy those perks first.
> 
> Soundwhoring for the win. I did all this with the Kossheiser PX175.




The Kossheiser strikes again!

So how do you like Ghosts? Lots of Amazon haterz.
I loved CoD4, still do, but MW2 felt like a killstreak fest (at least I didn't know how to counter them, seemed to shift focus away from gunplay), BO was OK (loved Sticks and Stones), MW3 had some good moments but too many maps that encouraged team control over certain focus points of the map instead of flowing around the map (Some of my favourite CoD4 maps encouraged evolving "hot zones," Vacant, Backlot, Countdown, Strike, Crash, Showdown, Overgrown... MW3 had a bunch of maps that revolved around camping one defensible area), and I haven't played BO2.
Overall I found almost all Halo maps to be great for the same qualities I liked about the majority of CoD4 maps (and I play a lot of SWAT, addicting) although I HATE Sword Base in SWAT on Reach. Hate it. Every single match revolves around camping or trying to take a small area upstairs around the top of Yellow Lift, there are a handful of tactics to try (over and over) and even if I win I feel frustrated/bored.
So ghosts has some satisfying gunplay, that's very good, but how do the maps play?


----------



## davisman

mad lust envy said:


> The VEPr with rapid fire is not slow to kill. It sprays bullets so quickly (and mostly in a straight line), people just drop left and right. I have been absolutely dominating with the VEPR.


 
 What I mean is, the time to kill on the rapid fire vepr is : .12 - .231 seconds based on range. It has a short range and is at its lowest damage (5 shots to kill) at ~15 yards, which is a short to medium range engagement. Where it gets interesting is when you compare it to say the MSBS which in stock form has a time to kill of .06-.268. But its range doesn't drop off until ~20 yards and is still a 2 shot kill out to ~28 yards. 
  
 So a 3 round burst assault rifle actually kills faster than the 1038 rpm vepr smg.


----------



## pervysage

evshrug said:


> The Kossheiser strikes again!
> 
> So how do you like Ghosts? Lots of Amazon haterz.
> I loved CoD4, still do, but MW2 felt like a killstreak fest (at least I didn't know how to counter them, seemed to shift focus away from gunplay), BO was OK (loved Sticks and Stones), MW3 had some good moments but too many maps that encouraged team control over certain focus points of the map instead of flowing around the map (Some of my favourite CoD4 maps encouraged evolving "hot zones," Vacant, Backlot, Countdown, Strike, Crash, Showdown, Overgrown... MW3 had a bunch of maps that revolved around camping one defensible area), and I haven't played BO2.
> ...


 
  
 The maps aren't that great. Hell... I can't even name any maps that I really like. They are all just huge random mazes with people spawning all around you. Ghosts to me just proved that IW has fallen off. Treyarch clearly makes the better games (and more competitive too). Loved the competitive aspect of BO2... it kept the game fresh. I can think back and name all the fun, memorable maps from the Black Ops games and MW2.... but Ghosts? hah. I never enjoyed MW3 all that much either.
  
 Ghosts is just a huge campfest with broken spawns. Try and play something like TDM or Search and Destroy, and EVERYONE is freaking camping in a corner, so whoever has the most patience wins. Then you say: "Okay, I'll avoid the campy modes and try something fast paced like Kill Confirmed.... boom, you immediately experience the broken ass spawn system. Absolutely atrocious spawn system in this game... people will literally be spawning behind you, next to you and in front of you, ALL THE TIME. I was playing yesterday and got killed from the side. I watch the killcam and the guy had just spawned there beside me and immediately began shooting at me after spawning!
  
 Until they release a patch of some sorts, I simply can't recommend Ghosts. The only time it is bearable is when you are playing with a group of friends and just having a good time stomping lobbies or screwing around. With the other COD games I could enjoy some solo gaming, on Ghosts I get fed up within half an hour. And all this is coming from a good player... I'm not frustrated because I suck or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hate Ghost's maps, Evs. Way too big, way too cluttered, and too many open spots. You're basically not safe anywhere.

Davis, when you go up against a spray weapon like a Vepr, the MSBS is not gonna win that battle. You have to wait for buest fire, and the VEPR sprays bullets so fast with rapid fire, you dont have to aim in close quarters. I have been absolutely on a rampage with it. Of course, its about what levels you use it in. If youre in a longer distanxe, the VEPR is at a disadvantage, obviously. Thats why I cover areas of maps with tight corners and the like.

For longer range maps, I use the Remington or MR28. It'd be stupid to use the VEPR there. Unless someone with an AR has the drop on me, I basically win every close range encounter with the VEPR.


----------



## pervysage

Do you guys use the Focus perk? I just saw a suggestion on a different forum to use it.
  
 Decided to try it out for a bit and I got that COD feeling back lol. I knew something was throwing me off a little bit. It's that weapon sway that they've added. In previous games your gun pretty much sat dead still (red dot didn't sway)... but in this game you need the Focus perk to make it stay still. Also, the no flinching when shot part of Focus helps too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One of my MR28 gameplay vids...

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjVCkuxmmgQ[/VIDEO]

Hmm, my problem is that I like that perk, but I have 3 indispensible perks:

1. *Dead Silence*: Every headphone gamer should be using this. Allows your footsteps to NOT be loud and drown out other noises. they still aren't completely silent though, other than to enemies without Amplify. Ghosts has amazing positional cues, so being silent, and allowing you to hear everyone else is a must.
2. *Amplify*: Really makes it ridiculously easy to hear enemy footsteps, unless they use Dead Silence, which will then make enemy footsteps sound like normal footsteps, which is still good enough for us headphone gamers.
3. *Sleight of Hand*: Fast reload is always a must, especially since most of us probably don't use a pistol, to unlock more perk space. Reloading fast is always better than switching to a secondary gun that isn't a pistol. 

4. Scavenger: I use this, because I like sticking to the gun I have equipped. If you're fine picking up other weapons, you don't need this. It's one of my staples, but I it isn't necessary overall.
5. Quick Draw: Aiming faster is very helpful. In place of this you can use...
6. Stalker: Allows you to basically aim and move as fast as your normal non-aiming walk. This is a must for those who like to pre-aim before passing a corner. My problem is that I walk so fast, it throws off my aim, so I prefer using Quick Draw in it's place. I hip fire the first few shots as I'm aiming in, and Quick Draw does the rest. For others, Stalker is probably more effective than Quick Draw. not for me though.

7. Focus: Allows your aimed weapon not to sway as much. If you're someone who tends to hard aim for a prolonged period of time, this can be helpful. However, I tend to aim quickly and shoot, so i don't see much use personally. the second effect is to not flinch when you're shot at, but more often than not, if you're already getting shot, you're probably already dead.


Because we're using Dead Silence, i really don't find much of a reason to use the perks that make you invisible to radar, etc. Chances are, we'll be moving away from where we were pinged, and if someone sees you, the vast majority of the time, you'll hear them coming thanks to DS and Amplify. My kryptonite in this game is those with the tracker finder sight. That sight is pretty overpowered for long range weapons, but I don't personally use it since it seems to recoil a bit more than an RDS, and I don't like that it blurs offeverything but the main sight view when aiming. I couldn't use it well. I'll always be an RDS or irons guy, depending on gun. For Ghosts, I tend to use irons, since I've been saving my attachment space for Grip, Rapid Fire, and Muzzle Break. 

That's how I've been playing and being incredibly brutal. Once I unlocked Dead Silence and Amplify, I went from a 1.63 to a 3.35 k/d or so. My overall right know is 2.32 or so. I have been cleaning house with these perks.

I have also been noticing that the other people that dominate the field with me have also been using DS and Amp. Goes to show what a distinct advantage soundwhoring is in this game.


----------



## pervysage

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, my problem is that I like that perk, but I have 3 indispensible perks:
> 
> 1. *Dead Silence*: Every headphone gamer should be using this. Allows your footsteps to NOT be loud and drown out other noises. they still aren't completely silent though, other than to enemies without Amplify. Ghosts has amazing positional cues, so being silent, and allowing you to hear everyone else is a must.
> 2. *Amplify*: Really makes it ridiculously easy to hear enemy footsteps, unless they use Dead Silence, which will then make enemy footsteps sound like normal footsteps, which is still good enough for us headphone gamers.
> ...


 
  
 Soundwhoring definitely helps too. But I noticed a huge difference after throwing Focus on (I sacrificed my Quickdraw and Ready Up perks).
  
 One perk I simply can't play without is Stalker. If you were an Adjustable Stock user from Black Ops 2, you'll know what I mean. Strafing is just way too slow when aiming down sights without Stalker on.... it feels like you are sitting still for the enemy to shoot you up. With Stalker you can move side to side and do all kinds of maneuvers to throw the enemy's shot off... helping you survive and go on long killstreaks.
  
 Right now I am running Stalker, Dead Silence, Amplify, Focus and also Sitrep (I absolutely hate dying to those stupid IED's that people plant every where so this one is a necessity to me, especially if you're playing Search where people use it like crazy). Also helps you see all other sorts of equipment which in turn usually help you guess where the enemy is camped out. 
  
 Focus and Sitrep... 2 big ones I recommend. 
  
 Maybe I was having a bad day or something yesterday... but people are dropping like flies today (just playing Core TDM). Can't say for sure if it's the dedicated servers of the Xbox One helping out a little, but the connection is pretty damn solid right now. I'm also digging the graphical improvements of Ghosts on the Xbox One.


----------



## Hoffen00

Got these stats in one of my best games in ghost so far on the map prison brake which i think is one of the better ghost maps http://i.imgur.com/lVmk1s5.png and that was with AK-12 forgrip+muzzle brake, perks - ready up, stalker, sleight of hand, takedown, focus, tac resist  with IMS, sentry and hind kill streaks. And all that was done with my current broken headset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Think my avg k/d in ghost is only about 3.5 now since i die so many times to getting shot in the back from stupid spawns and almost no chance to turn from dieing so fast in ghost.
 My black ops 2 k/d is about 4.5 and going up after every game. Right now i really want a good soundwhoring headset to see how much it would improve my k/d.
  
 But problem with ghost are so many, worst respawn points ever in any CoD game (respawn behind someone/infront?) , alot of bad maps, fps drops/freezes  even with a beast system running 680gtx sli etc IW really ****ed up ghost.
  
 If we compare it to like black ops 2 which has I would say almost perfect respawns alot of good maps and you dont die so fast as you do in ghost which i dont really like either since its alot more difficult to turn a fire fight if you get shot from the side/behind.


----------



## Hoffen00

Dont you think its better to use blast shield instead of sitrep ? That way you can survive other explosions aswell like grenades etc


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People don't tend to use tactical equipment nowadays in favor of more perk slots. FWIS.

let's move the CoD discussion here...

http://www.head-fi.org/t/691807/the-call-of-duty-thread-everything-cod#post_10004985


----------



## martin vegas

I know this has nothing to do with gaming headphones, in my local hifi store the audio technica ATH-ES7 and the philips fidelio M1 headphones are at a good price, I am getting myself a dac magic xs for Christmas, just for listening to music while I am on these threads..which headphones do you think would be good together with the dac magic xs?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I liked the ES7's sound, but it was a torture device on the ears.


----------



## martin vegas

I know, that's what's putting me off them(can't see them being as bad as igrados)..also a pair of sennheiser HD25 SP 2 at a good price.. I know I can get better headphones and a better dac but it's only what i use for browsing the web,i will be giving my niece them when I am finished.. I have a MacBook pro I use for making music with with a adl esprit and the lcd 3's!


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Has anyone had any experience with the Beyerdynamic MMX 300s? I've been thinking about getting a pair for the PS4 in case the mic included turns out to be absolute crap. My only problem with the MMX 300 is I'd like to use my speaker setup for gaming and if I decide to use headphones I'd rather use my HD598s. With the MMX 300 I can't do that. Does anyone have a recommendation for a high quality mic/headset (maybe one that sits in a single ear rather than both). Thanks!


----------



## martin vegas

jmanofisrael said:


> Has anyone had any experience with the Beyerdynamic MMX 300s? I've been thinking about getting a pair for the PS4 in case the mic included turns out to be absolute crap. My only problem with the MMX 300 is I'd like to use my speaker setup for gaming and if I decide to use headphones I'd rather use my HD598s. With the MMX 300 I can't do that. Does anyone have a recommendation for a high quality mic/headset (maybe one that sits in a single ear rather than both). Thanks!


 
This is the newest headset on the market, I wouldn't get a single ear one!


----------



## JmanOfIsrael

Have the ADG1s come to the US yet?


----------



## DCB305

Any word on how the AKG k712 do for gaming. MLE...any possibility of a review on these? I understand some generous member would have to send you a pair to demo...is this possibly in the works. 
  
 I just stumbled upon them and they seem interesting and I am looking at getting a new set of cans.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm pretty sure they'll be similar to the K702 Annies in score, etc.


----------



## Chubtoad

And the Annies are beast, so I'm sure the K712 would be as well.


----------



## DCB305

I've seen them for $399.00, I also saw that there is a k812 coming out, but they look like they have leather/pleather ear pads which I am not too fond of. MLE (or anybody) what's your preference on a all a rounder maybe slightly geared toward gaming can. The Fidelio or the Annies?


----------



## Xerosss

Hi, I want to buy a new set of sound peripherals and a sound card. I don’t want to spend more than 150€.
  
 Are the Creative Aurvana Live! a good option or there is a better headphone or headset close in price?
  
 A good sound card to give surround better than my onboard on the asus formula v Realtek ALC889?
  
 And for last a good microphone?
  
 Thanks for your time and excuse my bad English.


----------



## jTizMLG

I'm having trouble deciding between the Razer Kraken and SteelSeries Siberia V2.
  
 I'm going to be using it with the Astro Mixamp and will be going to competitive LAN competitions.
  
 Which one is better?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Kraken-Over-Music-Headset/dp/B009SJR2BE/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385329505&sr=1-4
 http://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-Siberia-Full-Size-Gaming-Headset/dp/B002Q8IHDQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1385329172&sr=8-2&keywords=steelseries+siberia+v2


----------



## conquerator2

jtizmlg said:


> I'm having trouble deciding between the Razer Kraken and SteelSeries Siberia V2.
> 
> I'm going to be using it with the Astro Mixamp and will be going to competitive LAN competitions.
> 
> ...




Have not heard the Krakens.
However I did hear the Siberia V2s and thought they were pretty good for the price.


----------



## Change is Good

You might have to make that decision based on Amazon's reviews. I doubt anyone here has tried either...


----------



## chicolom

dcb305 said:


> Any word on how the AKG k712 do for gaming.


 


mad lust envy said:


> I'm pretty sure they'll be similar to the K702 Annies in score, etc.


 
  
 Yeah, the score will pretty much be the same between them.  
  
 Overall, I prefer the K712 slightly over the Anniversary.
  
  


dcb305 said:


> I've seen them for $399.00, I also saw that there is a k812 coming out, but they look like they have leather/pleather ear pads which I am not too fond of. MLE (or anybody) what's your preference on a all a rounder maybe slightly geared toward gaming can. The Fidelio or the Annies?


 
  
  
 The K712 and X1 are both great all-rounders, but I'd say the K712 is little _more _of an all-rounder since the X1 can be considered a tad bass heavy at times.  I don't think you can go wrong with either one though.
  
 The K812s are going to be way more expensive, competing with flagship headphones - not mid-fi cans.


----------



## Change is Good

Are you missing them at all, chico?


----------



## Chubtoad

chicolom said:


> The K712 and X1 are both great all-rounders, but I'd say the K712 is little _more _of an all-rounder since the X1 can be considered a tad bass heavy at times.


 
  
 From everything I have read the X1's are suppose to be really good with bass, enough to even satisfy bassheads (or some at least) which is one of the reasons I was looking at them for my 2nd pair of headphones, for that more immersive single player experience or when I listen to music (which happens to be all bass heavy music)


----------



## jTizMLG

Oh and another question, can you use the Tritton AX720/720+ decoder box with a different headset?


----------



## DCB305

jtizmlg said:


> Oh and another question, can you use the Tritton AX720/720+ decoder box with a different headset?


 
 Yes, you need to disconnect the headset at the puck (the controller midline) which reveals the 3.5mm connectors (mic and headphone).


----------



## DCB305

chicolom said:


> Yeah, the score will pretty much be the same between them.
> 
> Overall, I prefer the K712 slightly over the Anniversary.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Chico, do you use an amp on them (the 712's)? Can you elaborate on your preference of the 712's over the Annie's...what about them makes you prefer them? Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Are you missing them at all, chico?



Wait, am I the last one who still has a pair instead of moving to a new price point?



dcb305 said:


> Thanks Chico, do you use an amp them (the 712's)? Can you elaborate on your preference of the 712's over the Annie's please.



I'm not Chico nor do I have experience with the Annies, but I DO have the K712 and I DO prefer them over the Q701... A little bit less grainy and a little bit more comfortable. They're very, very good headphones. I do generally use them with an amp I bought to use with my Q701s, but it does a decent job plugged straight into my iPod (video, old 5th gen model) and my Creative Sound Blaster Z. An amp heightens the experience a bit, better soundstage and separation.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Are you missing them at all, chico?


 
  
 Sure.  The K712s are pretty much the best all-around mid-fi cans I've heard. 
  
 I haven't replaced them with anything yet, I've just scaled down to just the X1 for now.  Still need to decide between the TH600, HD800, or K812.
   
 



dcb305 said:


> Thanks Chico, do you use an amp on them (the 712's)? Can you elaborate on your preference of the 712's over the Annie's...what about them makes you prefer them? Thanks.


 
  
 Yes, the amps in my sig.
  
 I prefer the K712 because it's slightly less dry sounding and the upper mids are a tad more laid back and smooth.  Overall the K712 is slightly smoother and thicker/fuller sounding.  The K712 also has slightly deeper pads which make the soundstage slightly less intimate sounding.


----------



## creepyMatt

Anyone knows if pairing Sony MDR-MA900 with a Soundblaster Z is a good idea?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Sure.  The K712s are pretty much the best all-around mid-fi cans I've heard.
> 
> I haven't replaced them with anything yet, I've just scaled down to just the X1 for now.  Still need to decide between the TH600, HD800, or K812.




Stop messing around and get the HD800.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Stop messing around and get the HD800.


 
  
 Oh man. Listen to him, Chico. I heard the HD800 this evening at an Ohio meet. We were running it off a DNA Sonett side-by-side with a SR-009 powered by a KGSSHV. We used the same source; the Audio-GD Master 7. Short version, the group was split between them. They were wonderful.


----------



## PurpleAngel

creepymatt said:


> Anyone knows if pairing Sony MDR-MA900 with a Sound Blaster Z is a good idea?


 
 I would "guess" they would make a good pairing.
 (Can't see a reason why not)
 Do you already own the MA900 or Sound Blaster Z?
 You might try asking about the MA900/SB-Z combo on these threads.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/663121/sony-mdr-ma900-appreciation-thread
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-s-rie-z


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Axel, the DX mic won't work through the ps4 controller without the Mixamp's y adapter, or something like it.

Also, I get inconsistent hiss when using the mic, though I seem to get it more when I use the mic through the Mixamp than when I use it with the PS4 controller's audio out.

I think it's my Mixamp though, which distorts here and there. I was getting bad feedback the other day just using the MA900. It was the Mixamp's audio jack which seems tk be going bad.

I'm positive if I use my E17 instead of the Mixamp, the audio won't be distorted. Guess I better test it.


----------



## Evshrug

Good news is, if you barely ever listen to chat with your game, there's a cheaper option with less hiss... and my DSS hasn't exhibited any faults.

Why were you playing with your kossheisers if you could play with your MA900?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well. It's not a problem with Mixamps themselves. Just my headphone jack has crapped out a bit. It works perfectly fine, aside from picking up mic feedback, where the ps4 controller doesn't. Its sensitive to certain feedback, like using a different usb port than the ps4s...

But if it does end up going to crap, I probably will acquire a cheap DSS. At least the ps4 has it's own chat input, so a Mixamp isn't necessary anymore for voice chat.


----------



## Evshrug

My point is, how often do you have the chat/game audio volume balance on your Mixamp completely turned over to game audio?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I never do, lol. But the Mixamp has basically no hiss when I play normally. Just when I start messing about that I staft getting feedback, etc. Once I basically set it, I leave it alone, and its perfect. But if I start messing around with voice chat, and plugging the usb to some other input, I start having issues. 

I'm sure I won't have any more issues, since I won't be using the Mixamp's voice chat function, and just going through the dual shock's audio out.


----------



## henhowc

Using some Skullcandy PLYR1s
  
 So I noticed that when switching my audio output settings from HDMI to optical or LPCM to Bitstream that my headset makes a popping noise. Not normally big deal right?
  
 But for all of my PS4 recorded videos using the share button there is always the same popping noise at the beginning of the clip. Is audio in the DMB using a different audio mode then from gameplay/videos? I guess its similar to the PS3? 
  
 Ugh its annoying that this gets captured in the share and I have to export to Youtube to edit it out. Nothing I can do about this I suppose outside of doing my share uploads while not using my headset?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Certain devices pop whwn changing from one signal type to another. Same thing happens with the Mixamp off the PS4. It's normal.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

hey mad lust got any info about the new G4me one from sennheiser ? am thinking of getting one but i really think that it's the same as pc 363d they also look the same ? what do you think
 and i really need your help on this but my budget is arround 200$ for a headset and i need a good headset like the ath700d or hd 558 moded i know that they are the best performance/price headsets out there but i can only get them from the UK and they are so damn expensive like 120 pound for the hd 558 and 140 pound for the hd 598 but i can get the new G4me one for 190 pound if i only add 50-70 pounds more what do you think i shud get ? based on your experience also is there another deal that i should think of ?
 edited: to tell the truth i don't think am getting the G4me one as i really think that they are a pc 363d just with out a 7.1 surround sound which makes the pc 363d to me a better buy am just very confused here on what i should get  sux to be in the uk


----------



## Chubtoad

I'm a little confused with the mic situation. Is it not as simple as it was with the ps3? Currently I have my mix amp hooked up through the PS4 optical with the y adapter hooked to the mix amp and my head phones plugged into the adapter. I haven't tried to use either the dx clip on mic or modmic yet but shouldn't it work just like the ps3? It would be pretty good if it worked just by plugging into the PS4 controller itself.

*edit* EV have you tried the m100s with the boom mic? Does it work properly?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chubtoad said:


> I'm a little confused with the mic situation. Is it not as simple as it was with the ps3? Currently I have my mix amp hooked up through the PS4 optical with the y adapter hooked to the mix amp and my head phones plugged into the adapter. I haven't tried to use either the dx clip on mic or modmic yet but shouldn't it work just like the ps3? It would be pretty good if it worked just by plugging into the PS4 controller itself.
> 
> *edit* EV have you tried the m100s with the boom mic? Does it work properly?




You're fine. I'm referring to my own Mixamp, which has bad feedback when I talk through the mic.

Bad for ME:

PS4 - USB/optical - Mixamp - y adapter - headphones/mic = bad mic feedback

Good for ME:

PS4 - USB (for charging only)/optical - Mixamp - headphones
PS4 Dualshock 4 - Y adapter - mic = fine


----------



## martin vegas

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> hey mad lust got any info about the new G4me one from sennheiser ? am thinking of getting one but i really think that it's the same as pc 363d they also look the same ? what do you think
> and i really need your help on this but my budget is arround 200$ for a headset and i need a good headset like the ath700d or hd 558 moded i know that they are the best performance/price headsets out there but i can only get them from the UK and they are so damn expensive like 120 pound for the hd 558 and 140 pound for the hd 598 but i can get the new G4me one for 190 pound if i only add 50-70 pounds more what do you think i shud get ? based on your experience also is there another deal that i should think of ?
> edited: to tell the truth i don't think am getting the G4me one as i really think that they are a pc 363d just with out a 7.1 surround sound which makes the pc 363d to me a better buy am just very confused here on what i should get  sux to be in the uk



I have the sennheiser u320's..they have got good sound..with battlefield 3 I could here people around me and vehicles..battlefield 4 is a different story..i have been ran over by a tank in bf4, because I couldn't hear it coming..i would get something with a better surround sound..i am thinkin of getting something to give them better surround sound like a mixamp or dss2?


----------



## Evshrug

Chubtoad,
I use a different brand of lapel mic from amazon (faster shipping), so I never bought the boom pro accessory. I think the one time I got a call while using the M-100 and the cable with mic it sounded ok for the other person, and the boompro is supposed to be better. If you don't already have one I think you would need a y adapter to split the mic and audio channels to different plugs.

SnakeEyes,
Since budget is a priority, I would recommend you go for a sure thing instead of those new Sennheiser things. The PC360 was an HD555 plus a mic and marketing, and I bet the newer PC363 is an HD558 (plus mic and marketing). You didn't say how much the PC363 cost?
What gaming platform are you on?
Regardless, I would recommend you get the HD558 and mod them. Separate mics are cheap and can be very good quality. You would want a good surround processor for your game platform too, keep in mind the new XboxOne doesn't yet have any surround processors available in current production and available separate (unless you have a home theater receiver with headphone surround).


----------



## Hoffen00

Well I just ordered my AKG K702, xonar DGX and audio GD NFB-15.32(TCXO*1 upgrade) today and now im excited to get them by next week sometime =D 
Maybe not the right time to ask but I have no clue how to adjust settings etc for either the DGX and the NFB 15.32 anyone that can give me some tips  and help in advance about settings etc for both gaming and music and then ill ask again when i get them if needed ^^


----------



## Orion1991

Quick question guys, so if I have an asus xonar DS for my 5.1 creative speakers, If I connect my headphones to the speakers instead of the sound card will it effect the sound somehow ? sorry I am very noobish in these matters, I still cant even decide on a headphone lol.


----------



## conquerator2

orion1991 said:


> Quick question guys, so if I have an asus xonar DS for my 5.1 creative speakers, If I connect my headphones to the speakers instead of the sound card will it effect the sound somehow ? sorry I am very noobish in these matters, I still cant even decide on a headphone lol.


 
 It might... There is extra circuitry which is always good to avoid...
 Usually the less stuff in your chain, the better.
 I'd just plug it directly into the DS to be safe.


----------



## JeremyR

orion1991 said:


> Quick question guys, so if I have an asus xonar DS for my 5.1 creative speakers, If I connect my headphones to the speakers instead of the sound card will it effect the sound somehow ? sorry I am very noobish in these matters, I still cant even decide on a headphone lol.


 
  
 What speakers do you have?


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> It might... There is extra circuitry which is always good to avoid...
> Usually the less stuff in your chain, the better.
> I'd just plug it directly into the DS to be safe.


 
 Actually, it depends.
  
 If you are using digital out to the speakers, then the DAC is happening in the speaker system, and not the PC. That might produce a better sound, deepening on how good the DAC is compared to the Sound card, how much SNR he has to deal with, and how much power is going to the headphones.


----------



## raif89

Hey just wanted to thank you for the reviews! I'm deciding between buying the Phillips X-1 and the DT-990. I'll be pairing it with a Xonar STX and use it mostly for gaming/music and movies. Nothing competitive, but want the fun.
  
 Just looking for a good place to order them from (in the states that is) that is reflective of the price. Any help in choosing either of those and maybe a good place to get em?
  
 I'll be pairing em with a set of the Antlion ModMic for games and such.


----------



## caracara08

Been playing CSGO more lately and switching between the HD650 and DT880/600 and I felt that the DT880 was much better (competitive) than my beloved Senn.  Maybe it was just me.  In any case, question, I have an Aune T1 as my DAC (its also an amp) and I have my bottlehead crack, would you plug straight from the Aune or go through the crack? which do you think would be better/accurate and why? Thank you if you have time to answer!


----------



## henhowc

mad lust envy said:


> Certain devices pop whwn changing from one signal type to another. Same thing happens with the Mixamp off the PS4. It's normal.


 
 Thanks. Just gotta remember to do my shares with the headphones off I guess.


----------



## conquerator2

jeremyr said:


> Actually, it depends.
> 
> If you are using digital out to the speakers, then the DAC is happening in the speaker system, and not the PC. That might produce a better sound, deepening on how good the DAC is compared to the Sound card, how much SNR he has to deal with, and how much power is going to the headphones.


 
 Yeah, I assumed they were analogue, most of PC speakers are, home theaters are a different story, obviously.


----------



## JeremyR

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, I assumed they were analogue, most of PC speakers are, home theaters are a different story, obviously.


 
 Yea, he said Creative 5.1. I was thinking Logitech. I don't think Creative has a speaker system with an external DAC, so you're right. Better to just plug it into the sound card.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> Well I just ordered my AKG K702, Xonar DGX and audio GD NFB-15.32 (TCXO*1 upgrade) today and now I'm excited to get them by next week sometime =D
> Maybe not the right time to ask but I have no clue how to adjust settings etc for either the DGX and the NFB 15.32 anyone that can give me some tips  and help in advance about settings etc for both gaming and music and then ill ask again when i get them if needed ^^


 
 Welcome to Club Audio-GD.
 With the 11.32, maybe just leave to switches on the left to 4/3 (default?)
 There are two gain settings (L & H) use whichever sounds best to your ears.
 Use the USB connection for music or any basic 2-channel audio and the S/PDIF optical for gaming and movies (I guess music is ok too)
 When installing the Xonar DGX, remember to disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS.
 Instead of the Asus software, get the "Unified Xonar Drivers".


----------



## Hoffen00

purpleangel said:


> Welcome to Club Audio-GD.
> With the 11.32, maybe just leave to switches on the left to 4/3 (default?)
> There are two gain settings (L & H) use whichever sounds best to your ears.
> Use the USB connection for music or any basic 2-channel audio and the S/PDIF optical for gaming and movies (I guess music is ok too)
> ...


 
 Thanks =) these drivers here ? http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ should i get the latest one or the "stable" one ? and if i look at this pic http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB12.11.JPG  it should be "HP", "L" or "H", "USB" for music and "OPT" for games/movies, volume just change to what i prefer and then on the other two ? OS and Filter ?
 Also any special settings i should have when i have installed the DGX / xonar drivers ?


----------



## conquerator2

Awesome closed back headphones.
 Great for sound whoring, but also fun and exciting, very wide soundstage and open expansive sound. great instrument separation.
 Excellent positional cues, really good for imersive and competitive gaming.
 Recommended 
  

  

  
 The stock pads are trash though, I'd recommend the 900X instead or such. You should be bale to fit many different pads on it :]


----------



## JohnClosed

What sound card (pc) do u guys recommend for the dt 990 pro 250ohm


----------



## Bakuryu

Hello, I'm new to the forums which I found while researching headsets. I read the guide and didn't seem to find a good gaming rating to price ratio for me.
  
 I'm looking for a good headset that has cloth or soft ear pads. My old headset was a Turtle Beach DPX21 which had an optical cord go through a USB sound card; Does that decrease the quality of the sound at all should I have just gone straight to USB or to 3.5 millimeter?
  
 I play a lot of FPS so sound quality is important, I've seen some debate on this, but surround sound would be a plus if it actually helps. My last two both had the arch break on me after a year or so one being a Gamecom 777 and my last one the Turtle beach DPX21.
  
 Also while reading up I heard some people recommend a headphone and mic combo instead and was wondering if anyone could weigh in on that as well.
  
 Here are some things I have looked at so far:
  
Razer Carcharias Over Ear PC Gaming Headset  - $60

SteelSeries 7H Fnatic - $98

Thermaltake Shock - $80

 For a headphone + mic combo I'm looking at these for headphones

Sony MDR-V6 Monitor Series Headphones $88

SR850 - Professional Studio Reference Headphones - $50

 And for the mic

Zalman Zm-Mic1 High Sensitivity Headphone Microphone - $10


----------



## martin vegas

bakuryu said:


> Hello, I'm new to the forums which I found while researching headsets. I read the guide and didn't seem to find a good gaming rating to price ratio for me.
> 
> I'm looking for a good headset that has cloth or soft ear pads. My old headset was a Turtle Beach DPX21 which had an optical cord go through a USB sound card; Does that decrease the quality of the sound at all should I have just gone straight to USB or to 3.5 millimeter?
> 
> ...



You need surround sound for bf4 mate.. I wouldn't choose a stereo headset nowadays..make sure it's got dolby headphone or some sort of surround sound!


----------



## kenshinhimura

conquerator2 said:


> Awesome closed back headphones.
> Great for sound whoring, but also fun and exciting, very wide soundstage and open expansive sound. great instrument separation.
> Excellent positional cues, really good for imersive and competitive gaming.
> Recommended
> ...


 
  
 which headphones are those?


----------



## Sony Slave

martin vegas said:


> You need surround sound for bf4 mate.. I wouldn't choose a stereo headset mate..make sure it's got dolby headphone or some sort of surround sound!


 
 I'm pretty sure that the Dolby Surround Sound (For Headphones) is a marketing gimmick.
 Any set of good headphones will give you that surround sound feel if you have a good enough sound card or audio processor.


----------



## kenshinhimura

sony slave said:


> I'm pretty sure that the Dolby Surround Sound (For Headphones) is a marketing gimmick.
> Any set of good headphones will give you that surround sound feel if you have a good enough sound card or audio processor.


 

 +1


----------



## jTizMLG

@Mad Lust Envy
  
 Should I get the Razer Kraken or SteelSeries Siberia V2?
  
  
  
  
  
 @Bakuryu
  
 I suggest the Tritton 720+


----------



## kman1211

kenshinhimura said:


> which headphones are those?


 
 Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> Thanks =) these drivers here ? http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ should i get the latest one or the "stable" one ? and if i look at this pic http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1532/NFB12.11.JPG  it should be "HP", "L" or "H", "USB" for music and "OPT" for games/movies, volume just change to what i prefer and then on the other two ? OS and Filter ?
> Also any special settings i should have when i have installed the DGX / xonar drivers ?


 
 I would say to get Unified Xonar Driver version 1.70.
 I just use the optical connection for everything, to me the music is good enough.
 With my Xonar, I leave the sample rate at 96Khz.


----------



## JohnClosed

johnclosed said:


> What sound card (pc) do u guys recommend for the dt 990 pro 250ohm


 
 For about 50-100$


----------



## Bakuryu

martin vegas said:


> bakuryu said:
> 
> 
> > Hello, I'm new to the forums which I found while researching headsets. I read the guide and didn't seem to find a good gaming rating to price ratio for me.
> ...


 
  
 It will be a while before I buy BF3's map pack so not to worry there. Lately I've been playing CS 1.6 and maybe some GO. To be honest most FPS today are disappointing. Anyway point is regardless of stereo or surround I need recommendations.
  


sony slave said:


> I'm pretty sure that the Dolby Surround Sound (For Headphones) is a marketing gimmick.
> Any set of good headphones will give you that surround sound feel if you have a good enough sound card or audio processor.


 
  
 Well I have an onboard one, not sure how great it is I have an ASRock H61M-VS motherboard that has it. I have the USB soundcard, but Idk how good it is its an Encore Electronics one.
  


jtizmlg said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> Should I get the Razer Kraken or SteelSeries Siberia V2?
> 
> ...


 
  
 They look nice, but dos pleather ear cushions drive me nuts. I guess you might be able to replace them, most manufacturers charge and arm and leg for them though either up front or in shipping.


----------



## kenshinhimura

kman1211 said:


> Audio-Technica ATH-W1000X


 

 thought so. thanks.


----------



## FlyKoBo

I was wondering if the 8323 is any good? I mainly play Counter Strike: GO and I just need a cheap upgrade from my crappy speakers. I don't really want to spend that much because I'm don't play often. Would the HD201's be better than the 8323?


----------



## AxelCloris

flykobo said:


> I was wondering if the 8323 is any good? I mainly play Counter Strike: GO and I just need a cheap upgrade from my crappy speakers. I don't really want to spend that much because I'm don't play often. Would the HD201's be better than the 8323?


 
  
 For gaming I'd recommend something open if you can. Koss KSC75 and PortaPros come to mind in your price range. The 75s are only $10 on Amazon currently. For something like GO, I'd want more detail in my sound to make it more exciting. If you need closed, the 8323 aren't bad. I prefer them with velour pads. My 75s get much more head time than my 8323, which currently gets none. I always reach for one of the two Koss.


----------



## FlyKoBo

How about HD201? 8323>HD201? I game in a pretty loud environment and I want something a little more closed off.


----------



## AxelCloris

flykobo said:


> How about HD201? 8323>HD201? I game in a pretty loud environment and I want something a little more closed off.


 
  
 What is your budget for the headphones? Of the two listed I've not heard the 201, but I may know of some in your range that are decent and closed other than the Monoprice.


----------



## kman1211

flykobo said:


> How about HD201? 8323>HD201? I game in a pretty loud environment and I want something a little more closed off.


 

 I found the HD 201 sibilant and uncomfortable when I heard it personally.


----------



## FlyKoBo

Quote:


axelcloris said:


> What is your budget for the headphones? Of the two listed I've not heard the 201, but I may know of some in your range that are decent and closed other than the Monoprice.



 i'm looking at max 35ish range. I don't want to spend so much because gaming is just a casual thing I do and I just want to be able to locate my opponents by his/her footsteps.


----------



## FlyKoBo

kman1211 said:


> I found the HD 201 sibilant and uncomfortable when I heard it personally.


 


 hmm. Well I guess the HD201's are out of the picture. I'm leaning towards the KSC75's but outside noise might be a problem.


----------



## AxelCloris

flykobo said:


> hmm. Well I guess the HD201's are out of the picture. I'm leaning towards the KSC75's but outside noise might be a problem.


 
  
 MLE reviewed the SHP2500 on the first post. Might be able to find that in your price range. Could a semi open headphone work for you? The Superlux HD681 and HD681 EVO can both be had for that price.


----------



## FlyKoBo

axelcloris said:


> MLE reviewed the SHP2500 on the first post. Might be able to find that in your price range. Could a semi open headphone work for you? The Superlux HD681 and HD681 EVO can both be had for that price.


 
  
 The Superlux HD681 looks interesting. I could do with a semi-open. Would you choose hd681 > the ksc75?


----------



## AxelCloris

flykobo said:


> The Superlux HD681 looks interesting. I could do with a semi-open. Would you choose hd681 > the ksc75?


 
  
 If you need the added isolation to help block some outside noise, absolutely. The KSC75 doesn't block anything at all. They are the definition of open headphones.


----------



## FlyKoBo

axelcloris said:


> If you need the added isolation to help block some outside noise, absolutely. The KSC75 doesn't block anything at all. They are the definition of open headphones.


 
 I really can't control the noise around me but for the most part it is quiet/light talking. If directional audio is top priority over anything what should I choose?


----------



## jTizMLG

bakuryu said:


> They look nice, but dos pleather ear cushions drive me nuts. I guess you might be able to replace them, most manufacturers charge and arm and leg for them though either up front or in shipping.


 
  
 Surround sound is sort of a necessity for competitive gaming and the AX720+ is the cheapest that has that.
  
 Also you can use it not only with the PC but with almost any console.
  
 PS4
 Xbox one
 PS3
 Xbox 360
  
 Another thing is that it lets you balance game/chat volume so you can get the perfect balance between the two, the other headsets you mentioned doesn't have that and I'm 100% sure your not going to like that for online gaming.....nobody does.


----------



## PurpleAngel

johnclosed said:


> What sound card (pc) do u guys recommend for the dt 990 pro 250ohm


 

 Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card (SB1500), $100, sometimes goes on sale for as low as $65.


----------



## Bakuryu

jtizmlg said:


> Surround sound is sort of a necessity for competitive gaming and the AX720+ is the cheapest that has that.
> 
> Also you can use it not only with the PC but with almost any console.
> 
> ...


 

 Two things, although it is nice that it works on a bunch of systems, it really isn't necessary. The Turtle Beaches I had turned into my PC headset when my other ones broke and now I have neither and probably wont go back and forth connecting to to both the consoles and PC. I just need PC mainly. The other problem is it's $30 over budget for me, which might not sound a lot, but as it is I'm not to happy paying $100 as it is.


----------



## JohnClosed

purpleangel said:


> Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card (SB1500), $100, sometimes goes on sale for as low as $65.


 
 Thanks mate, 
  
 I was checking the blaster z earlier and i heard alot of bad opinions about the drivers , i think i will buy the essence STX in second hand for 90 euros (110 $) , i think its the best option , right?


----------



## PurpleAngel

johnclosed said:


> Thanks mate,
> 
> I was checking the blaster z earlier and i heard alot of bad opinions about the drivers, I think I will buy the Essence STX in second hand for 90 euros (110 $) , i think its the best option , right?


 

 Essence STX for $110 is a great value, better DAC and head amp then the Sound Blaster Z (& Zx).
 and the STX's headphone output impedance is 10-Ohm, better then the Z or Zx's 22-Ohm impedance.


----------



## JeremyR

purpleangel said:


> Essence STX for $110 is a great value, better DAC and head amp then the Sound Blaster Z (& Zx).
> and the STX's headphone output impedance is 10-Ohm, better then the Z or Zx's 22-Ohm impedance.


 
  
 I have the STX, great card. Bought it a few weeks ago for $165, so $110 is a good deal.


----------



## jTizMLG

bakuryu said:


> Two things, although it is nice that it works on a bunch of systems, it really isn't necessary. The Turtle Beaches I had turned into my PC headset when my other ones broke and now I have neither and probably wont go back and forth connecting to to both the consoles and PC. I just need PC mainly. The other problem is it's $30 over budget for me, which might not sound a lot, but as it is I'm not to happy paying $100 as it is.


 
  
 Well then I suggest you get a used 720+ or AX720
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B008KH7NZA/sr=8-1/qid=1385446456/ref=olp_tab_used?ie=UTF8&colid=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=1385446456&seller=&sr=8-1
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002ZS6Y64/sr=8-1/qid=1385446469/ref=olp_tab_used?ie=UTF8&colid=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=1385446469&seller=&sr=8-1
  
 Then you can buy these velour earpads so you don't have wear someone else's, also because you said you don't like leather earpads.
  
 http://store.gameshark.com/viewItem.asp?idProduct=4835&idCategory=322
  
 As I said before, it is VERY important that you have surround sound and the ability to balance game/chat audio. You really don't want to get anything lower then this.


----------



## Bakuryu

jtizmlg said:


> Well then I suggest you get a used 720+ or AX720
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B008KH7NZA/sr=8-1/qid=1385446456/ref=olp_tab_used?ie=UTF8&colid=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=1385446456&seller=&sr=8-1
> 
> ...


 

 Ok, that sounds like a pretty good plan actually lol. One thing I'm worried about is like my last two is having the arch break when I got to put the them on. I can safetly say I was not rough with them, although not OCD unplug the cord rap it nicely in a container kinda thing I didn't purposefully stretch it or drop it. Also the last thing that happened on my last headset was the right speaker went out. This seems to be a common problem on a lot of headsets as well and makes me wonder why? One thing that annoyed me while also possibly being the cause of the speak malfunction was the inline volume control that was so bulky it weighed my headset down. Once I had my settings right I never really need to touch them yet a simple bump and my volume went from easy listening to rock concert in 3.5 seconds. I kinda wish those things were only an option. I read a review on the 720+ that said someone had the right speaker go in 6 months. I want my headset to last more then 3 years for once is this even possible?
  
 Lastly my setup is weird and I always wonder if I am getting good sound quality this way. I have the Turtle Beach PX21 going to the DPX module via USB and 3.5mm; from the module to a USB audio box via optical and to my computer via USB; and from the USB audio box to the computer via USB.
  
 Does this make sense to do/continue to do in any shape or form?


----------



## vsha

Does anyone know how the Beyer T90 would be as a gaming headphone? Does it lack too much bass compared to the DT990 to be competitive? I know chicolom has heard these cans 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but I haven't seen any opinions given at length about the T90's gaming prowess (or lack thereof).
  
 EDIT: Also, any opinions on the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for gaming?


----------



## jTizMLG

bakuryu said:


> Ok, that sounds like a pretty good plan actually lol. One thing I'm worried about is like my last two is having the arch break when I got to put the them on. I can safetly say I was not rough with them, although not OCD unplug the cord rap it nicely in a container kinda thing I didn't purposefully stretch it or drop it. Also the last thing that happened on my last headset was the right speaker went out. This seems to be a common problem on a lot of headsets as well and makes me wonder why? One thing that annoyed me while also possibly being the cause of the speak malfunction was the inline volume control that was so bulky it weighed my headset down. Once I had my settings right I never really need to touch them yet a simple bump and my volume went from easy listening to rock concert in 3.5 seconds. I kinda wish those things were only an option. I read a review on the 720+ that said someone had the right speaker go in 6 months. I want my headset to last more then 3 years for once is this even possible?
> 
> Lastly my setup is weird and I always wonder if I am getting good sound quality this way. I have the Turtle Beach PX21 going to the DPX module via USB and 3.5mm; from the module to a USB audio box via optical and to my computer via USB; and from the USB audio box to the computer via USB.
> 
> Does this make sense to do/continue to do in any shape or form?


 
  
 I'm not 100% sure what your trying to say but if your worried about setup the 720+ and AX720 both have there own decoder box which is like a sound card and you simply plug a USB from decoder to PC.
  
 Or you can use toslink from decoder to PC.


----------



## NoOneLt

Hello everyone, i have a thread here, need an advice between PC 350 SE vs. ATH-A500X for PC FPS online gaming, and wrote details there, any help would be appreciated!


----------



## jTizMLG

*@Bakuryu*
  
 Sorry but I forgot to mention.
  
 Another option is to get this sound card that would be similar to the Tritton's decoder box, you can get it used for about $43.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0017DJXG6/sr=/qid=/ref=olp_tab_used?ie=UTF8&colid=&coliid=&condition=used&me=&qid=&seller=&sr=
  
 Then get a different headset, my highest recommended headsets would be:
  
Razer Carcharias
Steelseries Siberia V2
Razer Kraken Pro
  
 The reason I didn't recommend this before was because I somehow got it in my head that you were playing on a laptop....I could have sworn you said something like that...


----------



## chicolom

vsha said:


> Does anyone know how the Beyer T90 would be as a gaming headphone? Does it lack too much bass compared to the DT990 to be competitive? I know chicolom has heard these cans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The T90s are _excellent _in terms of soundstage and positioning, right up there with best I've heard.  Their bass is fairly neutral, neither too light nor too heavy in quantity.  I had no issues with the T90's bass.
  
 The only real caveat with the T90s is that their treble is very forward.


----------



## raif89

No one wants to answer my questions? <Sadface>
  
 Maybe I just didn't phrase it well  
  
 What would be the main difference between the X1 and the DT990? I'm debating between both. This is my first ever headphone (literally, never even had crappy ones) for anything from gaming to movies/music. This will be paired with a Xonar STX and a ModMic. Also will be used with a laptop soundcard (for when I'm traveling, but that's about 20% of the time).
  
 Any main differences or a why I should go for one or the other? I can afford both, so price isn't an issue. Just don't want to pay too much for nothing if you get my drift. Comfort and fun is a main factor for me as well as good positioning (doesn't have to be perfect).


----------



## chicolom

raif89 said:


> What would be the main difference between the X1 and the DT990? I'm debating between both. This is my first ever headphone (literally, never even had crappy ones) for anything from gaming to movies/music. This will be paired with a Xonar STX and a ModMic. Also will be used with a laptop soundcard (for when I'm traveling, but that's about 20% of the time).
> Any main differences or a why I should go for one or the other? I can afford both, so price isn't an issue. Just don't want to pay too much for nothing if you get my drift. Comfort and fun is a main factor for me as well as good positioning (doesn't have to be perfect).


 
  
 The X1 is warmer, has better mids, and is more balanced IMO.  The X1 is easier to drive.  The DT990 is pretty cold with recessed mids, hot treble, and a "V" shaped sound.
  
 I'd go with the X1.


----------



## Orion1991

jeremyr said:


> What speakers do you have?


 
  
 Inspire T6100, so after reading the comments I guess its better to plug the headphones to the sound card it self instead of the speakers...kinda messy to keep connecting this and that.


----------



## Hailin

What Chico said. As a DT990pro and 600ohm owner/fan go with the X1. You don't want to have to be lugging around an amp everywhere with your laptop. Beyers need juice your laptop most likely doesn't have that juice.


----------



## raif89

chicolom said:


> The X1 is warmer, has better mids, and is more balanced IMO.  The X1 is easier to drive.  The DT990 is pretty cold with recessed mids, hot treble, and a "V" shaped sound.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






 


Thanks for the reply! Made the decision to get the X1! Before I order though, I hear it's a good idea to replace the cable, any recommendations?

Also, is pad replacement that much of an issue?


----------



## JeremyR

orion1991 said:


> Inspire T6100, so after reading the comments I guess its better to plug the headphones to the sound card it self instead of the speakers...kinda messy to keep connecting this and that.


 
 You can just leave everything plugged in, and use something like this:
  
http://blog.contriving.net/2009/05/04/a-hotkey-to-switch-between-headphones-and-speakers-soundswitch/


----------



## martin vegas

Will the creative Sound Blaster Recon3D work with a console and sennheiser u320 headset?


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Will the creative Sound Blaster Recon3D work with a console and sennheiser u320 headset?



 

The Recon3D USB works with consoles. I believe that you would need an adapter for that headset. Pretty sure it's designed with USB, a 2.5mm connection, and dual RCAs, not the 3.5mm you'd need for a Recon3D USB.


----------



## Evshrug

sony slave said:


> I'm pretty sure that the Dolby Surround Sound (For Headphones) is a marketing gimmick.
> Any set of good headphones will give you that surround sound feel if you have a good enough sound card or audio processor.



Unless your ears are too far from the anticipated shape, Dolby Headphone and other virtual surround processing algorithms allow you to hear WHERE a sound direction is coming from, though footsteps are still up to the game and headphone clarity. Look at my "journal" thread listed in my signature to view samples from YouTube, and make up your own mind if it works or not, and if it's for you or not.


----------



## Orion1991

jeremyr said:


> You can just leave everything plugged in, and use something like this:
> 
> http://blog.contriving.net/2009/05/04/a-hotkey-to-switch-between-headphones-and-speakers-soundswitch/


 
  
 Well that's pretty useful but I think it only works with USB headsets\headphones.
  
 What if I used a DAC, will the source be my soundcard ?


----------



## JeremyR

orion1991 said:


> Well that's pretty useful but I think it only works with USB headsets\headphones.
> 
> What if I used a DAC, will the source be my soundcard ?


 
  
 Right click on the speaker in your tray, and select playback devices. If you can switch the source manually from there, it will work. If not, it won't.


----------



## Orion1991

jeremyr said:


> Right click on the speaker in your tray, and select playback devices. If you can switch the source manually from there, it will work. If not, it won't.


 
 Okay I am not sure exactly what you mean here...my question initially was if I connect my headphones to my speakers will the source be my sound card or the speakers,  and will the sound differ ? the answer was yes, and those are old speakers so I am guessing its gonna make the sound worse.
  
 Now is there an easier way instead of connecting this and that constantly and have both my speaker and headphone source from the sound card ?


----------



## JeremyR

orion1991 said:


> Now is there an easier way instead of connecting this and that constantly and have both my speaker and headphone source from the sound card ?


 
  
 Not sure what you mean by "constantly". Are you looking for a way to have everything stay connected, and switch what audio device the sound comes out of easily, or are you looking for a way to hook everything up, so you can hook and unhook your headphones often without to much hassle?
  
 to be honest, step one is to hook your headphones up to your speakers, and then your sound card directly, and see if you can tell a difference. If you can't, then just do what is the most convenient for you. If you don't have an amp in your sound card dedicated to headphones, I suspect they will sound the same.
  
 Technically yes, the sound card directly is a better solution, but in practice, you most likely won't be able to tell a difference.


----------



## Evshrug

jtizmlg said:


> Surround sound is sort of a necessity for competitive gaming and the AX720+ is the cheapest that has that.
> 
> Also you can use it not only with the PC but with almost any console.
> 
> ...



You CANNOT use the AX720+ with an Xbox One, it does not currently output the needed DDL 5.1 signal out through optical to feed surround to the AX720+ box. To get surround out of an Xbox One, you either need something that accepts an HDMI connection or DTS Connect over optical, and right now the only available devices that can do either of those things are receivers.

The AX720+ is also not the cheapest solution, consoles have the good Turtle Beach DSS available new for about $25-30 on eBay, and there are several surround processing USB sticks for PC.

All the gaming-marketing headphones are a poor value compared to the quality you can get with respected Normal headphones with a separate mic. Some of the Gaming marketed headphones sound decent (like Corsair or Razer), but they're just more expensive than same or better quality options from Sennheiser or Koss.



vsha said:


> EDIT: Also, any opinions on the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for gaming?



I haven't heard the closed Beyer DT770, but the V-MODA M-100 does a great job for a closed headphone, a little bit of a warmer can but imaging and detail is good and it works well with surround processing.


----------



## DCB305

> To get surround out of an Xbox One, you either need something that accepts an HDMI connection or DTS Connect over optical, and right now the only available devices that can do either of those things are receivers.


 
 The 2013 Astro Mixamp Pro reports that it is compatible although it won't work for chat until they develop an adapter for the cable connection: see below (from their mouth)
 


> XBOX ONE COMPATIBILITY Our headsets will all deliver Dolby® Digital GAME AUDIO on the Xbox One, just like they do for the Xbox 360. However, the chat connector on the controller is now a proprietary connector, meaning that our current products will require an adapter to connect to the controller for Xbox Live voice chat. Fortunately, until this chat adapter is available, the built-in Kinect microphone will provide full voice communication access to Xbox Live while using ASTRO headsets on the Xbox One.


----------



## DCB305

Chico...do you feel the K712's are worth the extra $100 over the X1's. The only other problem I have with the X1's is the ear pads being pretty much irreplaceable. SMH


----------



## raif89

Huh, I'm a little confused now on the cable bit. I'm looking at cables to replace the stock X1 cable, but I don't know what kind of cable i'm supposed to buy. I thought I would get something like this:
  
http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Stereo-Auxiliary-smartphone-players/dp/B005K1C91W/ref=sr_1_67?s=audio-video-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1385495302&sr=1-67&keywords=braided
  
 or
  
http://www.amazon.com/BLUE-FLAME-BF2030-Aux-Connector/dp/B009RUYNLG/ref=sr_1_2?s=audio-video-accessories&ie=UTF8&qid=1385498718&sr=1-2&keywords=blueflame#productDetails
  
 or  
  
http://www.amazon.com/Monster-AI-800-MINI-7-iCable/dp/B002E9HHZQ/ref=pd_sim_pc_9
  
  
 But do I need something like this instead? 
  
http://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=34
  
 I'm looking at the headphones and the input for the headphones on my Xonar ST and I can't see any connector that looks like the second one. Anyone mind throwing me a suggestion for a relatively cheap braided cable that I would need for the X1? Totally lost as to which kind of cable I need... I thought it was supposed to be a 3.5MM male Stereo to 3.5MM stereo male...


----------



## chicolom

raif89 said:


> Thanks for the reply! Made the decision to get the X1! Before I order though, I hear it's a good idea to replace the cable, any recommendations?
> 
> Also, is pad replacement that much of an issue?


 
  
 For replacing the X1's cable, any *3.5mm male-to-male* cable will work.
  
 The monoprice "mobile" and mediabridge 3.5mm cables both work fine.
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021816&p_id=9765&seq=1&format=2
 http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B004LTEUDO/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1385507494&sr=1-2&keywords=mediabridge
  
 For any other cable questions, there's a whole thread for the X1 you can ask in:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1
  
  
 As for the pads, I think the issue is a tad overblown as pads should last years and years if you take good care of the headphone (and don't use it when your all dirty/sweaty). 
  
  


evshrug said:


> You CANNOT use the AX720+ with an Xbox One,* it does not currently output the needed DDL 5.1* signal out through optical to feed surround to the AX720+ box.


 


dcb305 said:


> The 2013 Astro Mixamp Pro reports that it is compatible although it won't work for chat until they develop an adapter for the cable connection: see below (from their mouth)


 
  
 What Evs said above is right. 
  
 The Xbox One is* CURRENTLY missing the Dolby Digital 5.1* output option, which is _crucial _for dolby headphone surround to function correctly. 
 http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/21/xbox-one-dolby-digital-5-1-support-for-headsets-coming-post-laun/
  
 Microsoft says that DD 5.1 ouput will be added back later in a system patch.  Once that's back, _THEN _the mixamp will work properly.  At the moment it's still "compatible" in that you will get sound from it, but it will only be the upscaled Dolby Pro logic, which is not the same as true Dolby headphone surround. 
  
 You will still need whatever chat adapter microsoft comes up with regardless.
  
  


dcb305 said:


> Chico...do you feel the K712's are worth the extra $100 over the X1's. The only other problem I have with the X1's is the ear pads being pretty much irreplaceable. SMH


 
  
 I suppose so.
  
 I think the X1 is a better value, especially when you get it at the ~220-240 price.  At that price (two thirds the cost of the K712) your getting more sound for the money IMO.  The K712s are great though, and they bring a bit smoother, richer, more refined, and more balanced sound.  The X1 is a little more fun with some boomier bass emphasis and slightly more treble sparkle (although still warm).
  
 It's a shame too see Philips repeatedly lose potential X1 sales due to lack of replaceable pads.  I've seen it too many times here - enough that it's time for Philips to release a revised X1 (or X2) with removable replaceable pads.  The X1 deserves that, as it's too good a headphone to be held back by such a small issue.


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

hello. 2 years ago, with the help of this thread, i purchased the astro mixamp 5.8 tx alongside sennheiser pc360, so that i can soundwhore like a god in call of duty, in xbox 360.
 well i am very satisfied. i can pinpoint where everyone is, very very accurately.
 the reason i made this post, is that i cannot understand where someone is, if he is above or below me. i can understand all other directions, apart from above and below.
 is this a limitation of the headset? a limitation of the mixamp? or both?
 and if one of these has a limitation, can someone tell me some alternate to them?
 when i purchased the mixamp, it was the best in the market... from what i read today, it still is. or am i wrong? thank youso much
  
 ps1. from what i have searched there isnt afirmware upgrade for my mixamp right?
 thank you


----------



## Evshrug

Sony Slave and jTizMLG,
*RE: Xbox One surround for headphones*
Yeah, the Astro can make "fake it" surround from a stereo signal, but it's a lotta reverb and no actual positional accuracy. It needs a Dolby Digital live 5.1 surround signal, which is unavailable on Xbox One until a (yet undisclosed) later date. Hopefully soon right?


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx


----------



## Bakuryu

jtizmlg said:


> I'm not 100% sure what your trying to say but if your worried about setup the 720+ and AX720 both have there own decoder box which is like a sound card and you simply plug a USB from decoder to PC.
> 
> Or you can use toslink from decoder to PC.


 
  
 Maybe a picture would be more helpful? The question I am asking is. Is my convoluted setup even getting me good sound quality?
  
  
 Headset -> connected -> Turtle Beach DPX decoder box - > connected -> USB Audio Box -> connected -> Computer.
  
 The reason the Audio Box exist is solely because my on board sound card does not have optical in.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> Yeah, the Astro can make "fake it" surround from a stereo signal, but it's a lotta reverb and no actual positional accuracy. It needs a Dolby Digital live 5.1 surround signal, which until a (yet undisclosed) later date. Hopefully soon right?


 


burnin ambition said:


> my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx


 
  
 Burning Ambition, Evshrug's "fake" comment was referring to the prior discussion about *Dolby Pro Logic.  *He wasn't talking about *Dolby Headphone, *which is what YOU are talking about.
  
 As for height cues, I don't _think _there's anything you can do about it at the moment as the current surround sound DSPs available for Consoles don't really account for any height cues (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).


----------



## pervysage

burnin ambition said:


> my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx


 
  
  


chicolom said:


> Burning Ambition, Evshrug's "fake" comment was referring to the prior discussion about *Dolby Pro Logic.  *He wasn't talking about *Dolby Headphone, *which is what YOU are talking about.
> 
> As for height cues, I don't _think _there's anything you can do about it at the moment as the current surround sound DSPs available for Consoles don't really account for any height cues (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Yeah, the Astro can make "fake it" surround from a stereo signal, but it's a lotta reverb and no actual positional accuracy. It needs a Dolby Digital live 5.1 surround signal, which until a (yet undisclosed) later date. Hopefully soon right?


 
  
 I agree with Ambition in that Dolby Pro Logic does a perfectly acceptable job of creating virtual surround sound for gaming. I have been playing COD: Ghosts on the Xbox One and can pinpoint footsteps with ease, even without the "true" Dolby Headphone. While the real thing probably does a bit of a better job, and I'm still looking forward to that patch releasing, I am pretty content in the meantime with the "fake" sound. As for the height cues, I honestly think that is a problem with the sound itself in COD: Ghosts (if that's the game you were referring to). I had the same exact issues on the Xbox 360 version of Ghosts where I could hear really loud footsteps close to me and I would be looking all over the place for them and it turned out the guy was actually on the floor on top of me. I never experienced height issues this bad in other COD games so I'm thinking it's just Ghosts.
  
 Also have some news on the Xbox One chat adapter front. There have been tons of people creating there own adapters by taking apart their stock Xbox One headset adapter (that goes into the controller) and soldering a 2.5mm cable onto it. There is also a more simple method where you just cut the cable of the stock Xbox One headset, strip the wire and twist it together with a 2.5mm cable from your 360 headset (I'm sure we all have tons of old headsets with 2.5mm cables we could use).
  
 Here are some detailed instructions I found on the mod: http://www.instructables.com/id/Xbob-360-to-Xbox-One-Headset-DIY-Conversion-Turtle/
  
 It's simply a matter of twisting the right color coded wires together. Will be trying this when I have time as I don't really care about the stock Xbox One headset and want to use my Astro Mixamp's chat.
  
 Or of course you can wait for MS to release their adapter (which I'm sure is going to be very overpriced). Anyone looking to use their Astros, Trittons etc in the meantime should look into just modding your Xbox One headset's adapter. If you're super lazy, there are even sellers on Ebay taking advantage of this and offering services to mod your adapters and send them back to you.


----------



## chicolom

pervysage said:


> I agree with Ambition in that Dolby Pro Logic does a perfectly acceptable job of creating virtual surround sound for gaming. I have been playing COD: Ghosts on the Xbox One and can pinpoint footsteps with ease, even without the "true" Dolby Headphone.


 
  
 I think Ambition was talking about Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360.
  
 I haven't had to use Pro logic in a long time, but last time I did it sounded pretty diffuse and unfocused compared to Dolby Headphone.  That's not surprising considering that Dolby Headphone has over twice the channel information to work with (2 channel Vs. 5.1 channel).


----------



## pervysage

chicolom said:


> I think Ambition was talking about Dolby Headphone on Xbox 360.
> 
> I haven't had to use Pro logic in a long time, but last time I did it sounded pretty diffuse and unfocused compared to Dolby Headphone.  That's not surprising considering that Dolby Headphone has over twice the channel information to work with (2 channel Vs. 5.1 channel).




Yeah but I'm currently running the Xbox One which is sending a stereo signal to the Astro Mixamp through the optical port. From here I'm assuming the Mixamp is upscaling it to PrologicII (according to the folks at Astro anyway). Still sounds pretty good to me even though it may not be up to par compared to getting an actual DD 5.1 signal from the Xbox One's optical port.


----------



## NamelessPFG

What particularly irritates me about Dolby Pro Logic (II) is that even Dolby Labs doesn't do a great job of clarifying its purpose.
  
 As I understand it, DPL(II) is a means of matrixing surround channel information into a two-channel signal by putting the extra channels out-of-phase, among other things. This means the audio signal needs to be mixed into the matrixed Dolby Pro Logic format to begin with, and *a plain stereo signal provides zero benefit.* A Pro Logic (II) decoder can't decode what isn't there to begin with, after all.
  
 Only games on the N64, PS2 and Wii (maybe Dreamcast too) did this, and mostly out of necessity due to lack of S/PDIF output that could support a discrete 5.1 signal like Dolby Digital or DTS, or extra analog output channels like PCs tended to offer. (In the PS2's case, it was because it lacked the performance to encode Dolby Digital on-the-fly like the Xbox could, and thus you'd only get it in cutscenes.) It's difficult for me to pick out one particular standout game to show off Pro Logic II(x), but Metroid Prime would be a good start. (Especially if you can get the Trilogy release.)
  
 I don't understand how Microsoft could screw that up with the Xbox One; at least they're trying to make amends, but I wouldn't expect relations with Dolby Labs to be that strained for this to be an issue to begin with. Then again, they already screwed up so much with the Xbox One it's almost beyond comprehension.
  
 Still, another thing I need to clarify with this view of DPL's purpose is that *Dolby Pro Logic II's real comparison, technology-wise, is Dolby Digital, NOT Dolby Headphone.*
  
 DH's purpose is to simply mix whatever decoded 5.1/7.1 channel information it gets into a simulated speaker system ideal for headphone listening using binaural/HRTF techniques or something similar. It doesn't matter whether that 5.1/7.1 data stream was originally PCM, Dolby Digital, DTS, or even Dolby Pro Logic II; if it can be broken down into individual channels, Dolby Headphone can work with it.


----------



## Evshrug

burnin ambition said:


> my friend why do you say it makes  fake surround? i can accurately pinpoint where everyone is shooting from on the map, or where everuone is. i can distinquish between front , bacl, left, right, easily. and i mean EASILY. only thing i dont understand is if someone is above or below me. so why do you say astro mixamp doesnt have positional accuracy. and which mixamp would you suggest that combined with pc360, might solve my little problem? thanx



Excuse me, little error of replying to another poster but mine showing up right after yours. I edited my other post for clarification. Xbox One, not the 360, doesn't have the right output like you're getting with your 360+Astro. What you describe is what the Astro Mixamp was designed for, and hopefully soon will be as good (or better?) for the Xbox One.

I hope you forgive my delay, as I'm typing on my phone (and watching TV).

About your issue hearing people around you well, but things getting mixed up when they are above or below you. That's how all surround processors for consoles (currently) work. What's happening is the surround is being mixed from a 5.1 channel surround designed for a home theater. If you think of a home theater, there's 5 speakers (and a subwoofer), so only 5 directions. And no speakers above or below you. So, consoles can only put out 2 dimensional directions, because they are limited in scope by being designed around 5.1 processing.

I'm sure you agree, this is lame, because few people can afford or have the space for a 5.1 speaker setup, yet everyone can get headphones. With two channels right on top of your two ears, it IS possible (and more practical) to calculate what something above you would sound like by the time it reaches your ears. Several PC games have taken advantage of this thinking, but as consoles dominated the market these past few years less game developers have bothered making 3D surround games that can take advantage of PC processing and headphones.

The good news is, apparently, the PS4 has adopted AMD's new processing called TrueAudio. I posted a demo of it on my "journal" thread linked in my signature. TrueAudio is an easy to implement feature for game developers, and it is available on a few of AMD's newest graphics cards AND the PS4 console. With a hopefully popular console (sold out real bad in my area) equipped with the capability, hopefully many more games take advantage of this treat and distinguishing feature. It sounds REALLY GOOD in the Lichdom demo posted in my journal thread, and is just what you were looking for.


----------



## Evshrug

pervysage,
That was very clever of you. No, soldering is not that hard, but most people would be too intimidated to try. Somebody showed me a great video about soldering wires together, but I think I lost the link. Thanks for inspiring others!


----------



## pervysage

evshrug said:


> pervysage,
> That was very clever of you. No, soldering is not that hard, but most people would be too intimidated to try. Somebody showed me a great video about soldering wires together, but I think I lost the link. Thanks for inspiring others!


 
  
 Here's another link I found that describes the mod:
  
http://kotaku.com/modder-solders-his-own-xbox-one-headset-adapter-1470785121


----------



## BURNIN AMBITION

thank you all for your answers and clarifications. cheers guys


----------



## conquerator2

burnin ambition said:


> hello. 2 years ago, with the help of this thread, i purchased the astro mixamp 5.8 tx alongside sennheiser pc360, so that i can soundwhore like a god in call of duty, in xbox 360.
> well i am very satisfied. i can pinpoint where everyone is, very very accurately.
> the reason i made this post, is that i cannot understand where someone is, if he is above or below me. i can understand all other directions, apart from above and below.
> is this a limitation of the headset? a limitation of the mixamp? or both?
> ...


 
 No, it is a limitation of the current technology. It cannot simulate sounds coming from above or bellow yet.
 There is Dolby Headphone X which seems promising and should eliminate these issues, hopefully :]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats because Dolby Headphone and other virtual surround techs are simulating a speaker setup in a room. Are horizontal speaker positions. As good as DH is for me, it's definitely missing that layer of positional accuracy. Like in Ghosts, I can clearly hear enemies around me, but because the game is so vertical (maps like Flooded and Chasm which have mutiple levels), I can't tell if they're on the same floor as me. I find myself constantly turning to a direction, only to see that they're not there. Kind of frustrating. With the older CoDs, levels were mostly on a single plane...


----------



## Orion1991

Guys do you think the headphone prices would drop on black friday, I am not american so I have no clue tbh.


----------



## martin vegas

Dolby atmos is coming to headphones soon!


----------



## Hailin

I am really excited about the future of surround sound headphone technology. I realize positioning can be better on a speaker system but it doesnt seem to immerse me in the world.
 Turtle Beach has a DTS-X headphone out now but it is mac only which seems like a strange step to take. Put the word out and gamers would be emptying their wallets for it.  
  
 Those of you playing BF4 what audio setting are you playing in. I have it on hifi, found wartapes to sound really tinny, but I don't know if it is just conquest mode, it seems most times that there is so much going on that I get really confused in which direction a sound is coming from. Single player is a lot less audio frantic i can do a better job of picking sounds but still seems off.


----------



## muksuluuri

mad lust envy said:


> Like in Ghosts, I can clearly hear enemies around me, but because the game is so vertical (maps like Flooded and Chasm which have mutiple levels), I can't tell if they're on the same floor as me. I find myself constantly turning to a direction, only to see that they're not there. Kind of frustrating. With the older CoDs, levels were mostly on a single plane...




Yeah this is massively frustrating and even leads to twitchy teamkills (or actually suicides; I only play hardcore where ricochet friendly-fire is the only mode available).  Moreover I can't seem to find good settings in my SBZ's SBX Pro Studio, the bass is always very unnatural and there's a definite lack of sense of space in the sound. i might go back to X-fi Titanium... Unless someone has good suggestions as to how to set the SBXPS. Using MMX-300 as the headset.


----------



## mikemav

Thanks for the link showing Xbox One DIY chat adapter, I may have to do that for my son this weekend. BTW regarding getting "true" 5.1 Dolby Headphone surround until they update when the Dolby licensing is worked out, I went through an excersise with his setup to get this working. What I did since the MixAmps we have don't support DTS is go back to my old Pioneer wireless Dolby Headphone system (transmitter with IR to wireless headphones.) The Pioneer, like the original JVC HD mixer, accepts both DTS or DD signals. So DTS out optical to the Pioneer transmitter, then I plugged in the wired headset (Beyer MMX300) to the wired headphone jack on the Pioneer transmitter. The wired output has its own volume knob too, and also carries the Dolby Headphone processing... 
  
 I also have a few adapter boxes (monoprice, etc..) that supposedly take HDMI signal and split it out to HDMI pass-thru video and optical audio. I know they support several formats on the optical but not sure if DTS is one of them, I will have to check. I think that's a less preferred method since it may introduce some lag having the video pass thru another device too, but we'll see and I'll report back. Of course an older Marantz receiver with Dolby Headphone would also work great. I use a SR5005 in my main room; BTW the "-05" series is the last Marantz that used Dolby Headphone, it seems to work from all sources (7.1 LPCM from a PS3, for example, or DTS...), and this model also is HDMI 1.4a and 3D capable. 
  
 One question- my son plays a lot of Ghosts and BF4 on the Xbox One. Not sure if there are in-game audio settings in Ghosts? If so, what is preferred? I know there are in-game choices in BF4, so same question: do you guys like War Tapes, Hi-Fi, Home Theater, etc..for BF4 with Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Hoffen00

I just got my AKG K702 today but i am abit surprised and confused with the headset because
  
 1: It does not have a label on the side of the headphones saying made in austria
 2:It had no bumps on the headband
 3: it has a sticker on the headband saying made in china P.R.C

 is this still the AKG k702 headset that i should have and not the one with made in austria on the side ? Is it the same sound quality etc as the other one or should i send it back and try to find one saying made in austria or is that not possible anymore?


----------



## Change is Good

Thought I'd share this in here since there are some of you who play both COD and BF.
  
 I was playing TDM on a certain map (forgot the name) in BF4 where there are nothing but two story houses scattered through the map. At first, I was frustrated at the fact that everyone on the other team was camping inside all the houses on one side of the map.
  
 One enemy, in particular, was going straight COD style by sitting in a corner on the second floor of a house killing everyone that came up the stairs. It only took once for me to know what to do in retaliation.
  
 When I returned after spawning, I though I'd teach em an old "Only in Battlefield" lesson and blew the bulding to pieces with my M320. This fool was still laying down and camped in the same spot... until I blew the whole wall off... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 After that I just blew up all the houses with my M320 everytime I respawned... resulting in no more campers half way through the match...


----------



## rav101

Hi,
  
 Just wanted to say thanks to Mad Lust Envy as I was looking at my different gaming headset options when I came across this thread. I have taken the plunge and ordered the AKG K702 65th edition and DX mic along with the Fiio E12 and the Mixamp Pro 2013. The Mixamp has arrived but I'm waiting for the rest to come along.
  
 I have just tried out the Mixamp with my Westone 4s on my Playstation 3 and have to say I'm already impressed! I have a Playstation 4 on order (will receive before Christmas) and can't wait to get it all up and running.
  
  
 Regards,
  
 Ravi


----------



## DCB305

what's the word on the schiit magi? What would match up better with the AKG k712 the FIo e12 or the schit? Open to any input, but I don't want to spend too much more than $130 on the amp if I don't need to. Also this will pretty much be stationary. Thanks


----------



## Hailin

I was surfing along looking at wireless setups and this caught my eye. I know we don't really praise wireless around here, it wasn't the headphones that peaked my interest it was Dolby receiver that caught my eye. If only it came with a headphone port.
  
http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-h-wireless
  
 I think it is one of the most stunning gaming mixamps available. After seeing what Steelseries is doing, Astro and Turtle Beach really need to step up their game.


----------



## miceblue

Probably the Magni because of its clear sound. That is, if you don't mind its size compared to the relatively small E12.


----------



## DCB305

miceblue said:


> Probably the Magni because of its clear sound. That is, if you don't mind its size compared to the relatively small E12.


 
 Thanks, don't mind the size as it will be pretty much stationary. Thanks again.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> I just got my AKG K702 today but i am abit surprised and confused with the headset because
> 
> 1: It does not have a label on the side of the headphones saying made in Austria
> 2:It had no bumps on the headband
> ...


 

 I'm guessing AKG switched over to manufacturing the K702 in China, several months ago.
 I believe the AKG K812, K712 & K612 are make in Austria, but would assume all other models are made in China.
  
 I would also guess AKG does not go out of their way to advertise what models are not made in Austria anymore.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> No, it is a limitation of the current technology. It cannot simulate sounds coming from above or bellow yet.
> There is Dolby Headphone X which seems promising and should eliminate these issues, hopefully :]



Well, improve but not completely eliminate. You gain one level of height cues, which should make a difference, _but_ the audio is still being funneled into discreet speaker direction channels, and there are no directly above direction nor any below directions.

If you think DTS Headphone X is cool, listen to what true 3D audio not designed for a handful of speakers can do, and add your comments to my Virtual Surround journal article:
[Video]http://youtu.be/_6uUtf-lMQQ[/Video]




hailin said:


> I am really excited about the future of surround sound headphone technology. I realize positioning can be better on a speaker system but it doesnt seem to immerse me in the world.
> Turtle Beach has a DTS-X headphone out now but it is mac only which seems like a strange step to take. Put the word out and gamers would be emptying their wallets for it.



Lol just saw that! Would be great for movies, though the Mac App Store also just had steam-summer-sale-like discounts on the biggest games for Mac.



mikemav said:


> I also have a few adapter boxes (monoprice, etc..) that supposedly take HDMI signal and split it out to HDMI pass-thru video and optical audio. I know they support several formats on the optical but not sure if DTS is one of them, I will have to check. I think that's a less preferred method since it may introduce some lag having the video pass thru another device too, but we'll see and I'll report back. Of course an older Marantz receiver with Dolby Headphone would also work great. I use a SR5005 in my main room; BTW the "-05" series is the last Marantz that used Dolby Headphone, it seems to work from all sources (7.1 LPCM from a PS3, for example, or DTS...), and this model also is HDMI 1.4a and 3D capable.
> 
> One question- my son plays a lot of Ghosts and BF4 on the Xbox One. Not sure if there are in-game audio settings in Ghosts? If so, what is preferred? I know there are in-game choices in BF4, so same question: do you guys like War Tapes, Hi-Fi, Home Theater, etc..for BF4 with Dolby Headphone?



The HDMI split-out box sounds like a good adapter system. For some reason, Dolby Digital Live (the Dolby signal that Mixamps and DSS's and Recon3D USB surround processors use) CAN already be output by an Xbox One through HDMI, so pulling the audio from that should work. Just annoying that we would need an extra adapter, but that sounds like the least expensive solution for right now.

I'm experimenting with BF3 settings now, which have the same options, and I think Home Theater is what you need for surround channels. You'd think hi-Fi mode would be best, but I think that only gives you stereo.


----------



## Hoffen00

purpleangel said:


> I would say to get Unified Xonar Driver version 1.70.
> I just use the optical connection for everything, to me the music is good enough.
> With my Xonar, I leave the sample rate at 96Khz.


 
 What other settings do you have in the xonar  audio center ? soundchannel= ?? , sample rate 96k, output device = headphones ?advanced settings "pro gaming mode" or VOIP mode ?
 SPDIF enabled with  dolby headphones enabled ? together with DH-1, DH-2 or DH-3 ? Any other settings or options i should change / use ?


----------



## Hoffen00

purpleangel said:


> I'm guessing AKG switched over to manufacturing the K702 in China, several months ago.
> I believe the AKG K812, K712 & K612 are make in Austria, but would assume all other models are made in China.
> 
> I would also guess AKG does not go out of their way to advertise what models are not made in Austria anymore.


 
 So sound quality should not really be any difference from the china made ones and the Austira ones from before ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> So sound quality should not really be any difference from the China made ones and the Austria ones from before ?


 
 I would assume they would be very close to the same audio quality, maybe the same audio quality.
 Just not a question where I would have enough facts to know.


----------



## Evshrug

dcb305 said:


> what's the word on the schiit magi? What would match up better with the AKG k712 the FIo e12 or the schit? Open to any input, but I don't want to spend too much more than $130 on the amp if I don't need to. Also this will pretty much be stationary. Thanks



I haven't tried the Schiit, but I do use my E12 with my K712 (more often than I did my Q701, actually). I have read a lot of reviews and impressions on both however, and this is how I'd sum it up.

They both are very good amps, and drive the AKG K712 pro well. They both have a fair bit of power, and output impedance so low on them, so those two things mean really sensitive headphones or those needing more power are both covered and the amps could be used with almost any headphone.

The E12 is smooth and drives the K712 very well with great refinement and no distortion. It has a couple fun switches to turn on a bass boost and/or a crossfeed to blend the L/R channels a bit for more relaxed listening (and less brain reaction, sometimes songs pan hard left or right and it can be jarring, this lessens that). Also, yeah you will be using it mostly stationary, but the E12 is portable so you have the option to use it in different rooms (bedroom, TV in the living room, take it to work) easily without having a hassle to unhook and set it up.

The Schiit Magni is an attractive silver desktop amp. Good price. Since it's a wall-plug-in desktop amp, you don't have to worry about charging your battery (though you can only set it up where you have a nearby free power outlet, and you have to be careful of noise from the grid mains). Sound-wise, reviews mention a clear revealing sound, which may balance the K712's slightly more warm signature. It's also simply an amp... sometimes it's attractive to have a simple device that does one thing. There's only one control - an analogue volume knob, and people like turning a nice volume knob on a desktop amp (the E12 also has a volume knob, but it also serves as a power switch and it's pretty stiff to turn unless you turn it just-so).

Which would I choose? I don't really know. I honestly AM someone who likes the simplicity of a desktop amp, but I feel that if I had a Magni I'd also want a portable amp because they're just very convenient. As it happens, I DO have a desktop amp, and I use my E12 whenever I need it's convenience. I'd probably be ok pairing down to an E11 plus my tube amp, but the E12 is basically no compromise in sound quality.


----------



## miceblue

I find that the E12 has a pretty narrow soundstage. It was pretty evident to me with the Alpha Dog when switching between the Objective 2 (people say the O2 and the Magni sound nearly identical). That and I always found it to be a bit bright for my liking. Bright as in the 4 kHz - 8 kHz range.


----------



## dandiego

hailin said:


> I was surfing along looking at wireless setups and this caught my eye. I know we don't really praise wireless around here, it wasn't the headphones that peaked my interest it was Dolby receiver that caught my eye. If only it came with a headphone port.
> 
> http://steelseries.com/products/audio/steelseries-h-wireless
> 
> I think it is one of the most stunning gaming mixamps available. After seeing what Steelseries is doing, Astro and Turtle Beach really need to step up their game.


 
 I'm curious to to see what the reviews say regarding the Steelseries wireless' sound quality, but I agree -- that is some damn good-looking hardware!


----------



## spooky655

The DX mic only works if it is in front of my mouth. Anyone know any easy way to attach it to headphones?


----------



## mikemav

evshrug said:


> Well, improve but not completely eliminate. You gain one level of height cues, which should make a difference, _but_ the audio is still being funneled into discreet speaker direction channels, and there are no directly above direction nor any below directions.
> 
> If you think DTS Headphone X is cool, listen to what true 3D audio not designed for a handful of speakers can do, and add your comments to my Virtual Surround journal article:Lol just saw that! Would be great for movies, though the Mac App Store also just had steam-summer-sale-like discounts on the biggest games for Mac.
> The HDMI split-out box sounds like a good adapter system. For some reason, Dolby Digital Live (the Dolby signal that Mixamps and DSS's and Recon3D USB surround processors use) CAN already be output by an Xbox One through HDMI, so pulling the audio from that should work. Just annoying that we would need an extra adapter, but that sounds like the least expensive solution for right now.
> ...


 
 On the HDMI split-out thought, I'm going to try this Kanex Pro model. http://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Pro-HAECOAX-De-Embedder-Support/product-reviews/B009KAU0WO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
 Says it supports DD and DTS 5.1 outputs on toslink or coax from 5.1 HDMI sources. Also one Amazon reviewer stated he was using w/ a DAC and discovered if you set output switch to 5.1 even if using stereo, then you get 24/192 resolution instead of 24/48 when set to "stereo". Seems like a bargain in comparison at under $60 if you own a MixAmp or other DH processor looking for a DD 5.1 signal, especially if your source does not output that natively like the XBone (yet.) Especially cheap compared to an AV receiver used as a headphone DAC.... So when this arrives Monday I will try it out with the XBone and my HTPC sources to see how well it works and report back. Note if the One does not output game audio signals in Dolby Digital 5.1 via HDMI yet, this will still not work to the fullest with a MixAmp. I know they have a "beta" (enable checkbox in menu) to now allow DD passthru from the HDMI input, but am not sure if any game audio can be output over HDMI in surround encoded in anything other than DTS? You mentioned it does now use DD 5.1 via HDMI, I had not heard that yet, but if true, we'd be golden with this box if it works as advertised.


----------



## miceblue

evshrug said:


> conquerator2 said:
> 
> 
> > No, it is a limitation of the current technology. It cannot simulate sounds coming from above or bellow yet.
> ...



What kind of technology is that? It sounds like a DSP was added but I'm thinking it's more than just that.

I'm still not into true surround sound systems so this stereo sound-based stuff is pretty neat. Binaural recordings are cool and all, but it's hard to implement that technology in games.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Whatever GenAudio's doing with AstoundSound, it's working. I heard some honest-to-goodness elevation cues in there.
  
 I just hope that the full AstoundSound quality doesn't require the presence of a TrueAudio DSP, even if it does mean greater CPU load. I don't necessarily want to give up certain NVIDIA-exclusive features just yet, and besides, the TrueAudio-enabled cards would force me to buy a video DAC for my GDM-FW900.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I remove the part of my sig stating not to ask me gaming headphone questions via pm, and I get an instant flood of messages. Guess I need to leave that on my sig. I'm not going to answer the same questions over and over. Make up your own conclusions as to what works best for you based on what you want, and what I have written. I don't understand why people feel the need to ask questions answered on the guide.

If I'm ranting, I apologize, but every joe schmo thinks they're the only ones who ask me questions, when I get the same exact ones on a daily basis.

What'd the best competitive gaming headphone for under $10?

Can I use the HE-4 with a Fiio E5 for now?

Is the treble on the DT990 too sparkly?

Does the XB700 have bass that is too much for competitive gaming?

Is the Ad700 the best gaming headphone for FPS games for a cheap price?

What headphone has punchy bass, forward mids, large soundstage, great for gaming competitive and fun, good treble, comfortable, doesn't leak out, easy to drive, and is less than $200? (you'd be surprised how many people want it ALL for a cheap price like there is a secret, perfect headphone only I know about)
*
LOOK AT THE GUIDE PLEASE*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone wanna trade their Mixamp 5.8 for a Mixamp 2011 and some cash? My Mixamp 2011 works fine, just a bit sensitive on the headphone jack (though I suspect it may just be the mediabridge cable not being a tight fit).

To be completely honest, I kind of want to go less and less cable clutter. Interested in what new wireless headsets come out. Like the PLYR1, but the comfort isn't ideal to me.


----------



## Bakuryu

I only got really one response and since cyber Monday is coming up I should reword my question as well.
  
 I'm currently using a USB sound card, are they not as good as internal ones?
  
 I'm looking for a headset/headphone+mic replacement. My last one cost me about $130 if I remember they were Turtle Beach DPX21's for the PS3 that I started using for me PC. I'm not an audiophile, but I do play a lot of FPS games semi competitively (I'm competitive, not sure about the rest of the people in the pubs lol).
  
 I'm looking for something $100 or less, but like I said now that cyber Monday is coming up maybe some suggestions on sets to keep an eye on that might drop to or below $100 would be a good idea to.
  
 I really need a headset/headphone+mic set up soon as I am sick of using my old headset just for the mic and having to wear ear buds or go through my speakers.


----------



## conquerator2

bakuryu said:


> I only got really one response and since cyber Monday is coming up I should reword my question as well.
> 
> I'm currently using a USB sound card, are they not as good as internal ones?
> 
> ...


 
 Internal sound cards are usually worse than external due to the internal's noise. So I'd say external > internal.
 As for headphones, the Creative Aurvana Live! is a good headphone and you can use the cheap clip-on [is it?] mic MLE is using.
 Or the Audio Technica headphones, which are also generally good.
 I feel MLE is more informed in this regard though so I am sure he'll be able to provide a more informative answer :]
  
 Meanwhile, I am thoroughly enjoying my W1000X with HiFiMAN pleather pads :]


----------



## martin vegas

bakuryu said:


> I only got really one response and since cyber Monday is coming up I should reword my question as well.
> 
> I'm currently using a USB sound card, are they not as good as internal ones?
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

mikemav said:


> On the HDMI split-out thought, I'm going to try this Kanex Pro model. http://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Pro-HAECOAX-De-Embedder-Support/product-reviews/B009KAU0WO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
> .Note if the One does not output game audio signals in Dolby Digital 5.1 via HDMI yet, this will still not work to the fullest with a MixAmp. I know they have a "beta" (enable checkbox in menu) to now allow DD passthru from the HDMI input, but am not sure if any game audio can be output over HDMI in surround encoded in anything other than DTS? You mentioned it does now use DD 5.1 via HDMI, I had not heard that yet, but if true, we'd be golden with this box if it works as advertised.



Hopefully we are golden, but I just thought of another possible caveat... The game/movie has to support Dolby too. I think most games do... I dunno what it's like, I just know that on my 360 I have to go to the dashboard and make sure my audio settings have Dolby Digital 5.1 selected. Good luck to all

Anyone else kinda see XBone and think X-Boned? Might just be me, I've been thinking Micro$uck since the 90's before they bailed out Apple (anti-trust issues) and created the XBOX division.



namelesspfg said:


> Whatever GenAudio's doing with AstoundSound, it's working. I heard some honest-to-goodness elevation cues in there.
> 
> I just hope that the full AstoundSound quality doesn't require the presence of a TrueAudio DSP, even if it does mean greater CPU load. I don't necessarily want to give up certain NVIDIA-exclusive features just yet, and besides, the TrueAudio-enabled cards would force me to buy a video DAC for my GDM-FW900.



Is that the first time you saw the demo? It was posted on your thread by Feg and then again (and it's possible industry effect) discussed on my thread. I'm not exactly sure what AstoundSound is... I thought it was GenAudio and AMD created a piece of audio-processing hardware called TrueAudio to be placed on Radeon graphics cards (and the Radeon-equipped PS4). I did read that it interacts with games before FMOD or Wwise processing, and apparently consideration was taken to make it easy to implement. I'd rather invite talk about it on my thread than derail the headphone guide, but in short this sounds like the second coming of OpenAL.


----------



## Hailin

I am surprised this hasn't been brought up yet and for a crazy price right now on amazon almost the same price as an astro mixamp.
  
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Tournament-Mixer-Not-Machine-Specific/dp/B0099R6GU8
  
 I don't know how it sounds but if it works as advertised you wouldn't need another mixamp for ages. 
  
 Sometimes I wish I lived in the states I would buy this just to test it out.


----------



## AxelCloris

hailin said:


> I am surprised this hasn't been brought up yet and for a crazy price right now on amazon almost the same price as an astro mixamp.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Force-Tournament-Mixer-Not-Machine-Specific/dp/B0099R6GU8
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually I think you would still require a Mixamp. That's listed as a mixer and not a DSP; basically just mixing like a sound board does. I don't see any mention of surround processing on the page. Also, you can do the same thing with Mixamps. So instead of buying Mixamps plus this I'd just wiring 6 together as they were designed. Maybe there's a very short delay with this system, but I'd just end up using in game chat or a locally hosted vent/teamspeak.


----------



## Hailin

axelcloris said:


> Actually I think you would still require a Mixamp. That's listed as a mixer and not a DSP; basically just mixing like a sound board does. I don't see any mention of surround processing on the page. Also, you can do the same thing with Mixamps. So instead of buying Mixamps plus this I'd just wiring 6 together as they were designed. Maybe there's a very short delay with this system, but I'd just end up using in game chat or a locally hosted vent/teamspeak.


 
 Nice catch Axel. Then what is the point of the optical input then?


----------



## AxelCloris

hailin said:


> Nice catch Axel. Then what is the point of the optical input then?


 
  
 There are times where you'll only have access to optical out. This will take a signal over Toslink and bring it into the mixer. You might be able to output DH from a computer's sound card and then run into the device via optical and get surround to all players that way. But they'd need individual sound cards in order to do so.


----------



## Hailin

axelcloris said:


> There are times where you'll only have access to optical out. This will take a signal over Toslink and bring it into the mixer. You might be able to output DH from a computer's sound card and then run into the device via optical and get surround to all players that way. But they'd need individual sound cards in order to do so.


 
 Yup reading more about it on another website. It is strictly a lan broadcasting tool and pass through. Another great loss for the Dolby Headphone community. It is sort of starting to piss me off we are so tied to Astro. None of these companies are willing to take a chance, and Astro after abandoning the 5.8 is working backwards now.
 They aren't even willing to support our 2011 versions and want us all to upgrade to an inferior sounding product. No offense to 2013 owners out there not like you had much of a choice.
  
 Even Steelseries new wireless headset as amazing as it looks screwed the pooch by not including a headphone out. A part that cost way less then a dollar to include!
  
 I am really thinking of saying f-it and just buy a A50, Plyr1, XP510 or H9 Wireless and calling it quits and just using my headphones to listen to music, which in hindsight will save my wallet a grand a year.  After I get a CAL!2 of course. Sorry I am so bitter about all this.


----------



## Bakuryu

conquerator2 said:


> Internal sound cards are usually worse than external due to the internal's noise. So I'd say external > internal.
> As for headphones, the Creative Aurvana Live! is a good headphone and you can use the cheap clip-on [is it?] mic MLE is using.
> Or the Audio Technica headphones, which are also generally good.
> I feel MLE is more informed in this regard though so I am sure he'll be able to provide a more informative answer :]
> ...


 
  
 Hmm the creatives definitely seem nice, although unlike you I had pleather pads, much more of a valor person really. I can't seem to find valor replacements on their website either  not a bad price though. For the Audio Technica headphones is there ones you can recommend in my price range or may possibly go into my price range if on sale that would have valor replacements
  


martin vegas said:


> bakuryu said:
> 
> 
> > I only got really one response and since cyber Monday is coming up I should reword my question as well.
> ...


 
  
 These look pretty nice and in my price range, although it would be nice if it was less, but it only has 19 reviews which is strange, most are good, but are they new (just came out)?
  
 Edit: Also why is it not good for BF4?


----------



## Evshrug

Hailin,
I bet the optical in is just for stereo PCM input.

Bakuryu,
All the AD series of Audio Technica open headphones use velour earpads. I personally liked the competitive AD700 which was also a great price value, but if you listen to music or like more bass, then a more balanced headphone would be recommended.

And it's not that the Corsair is bad for BF4... It's just that BF4 is so chaotic, hectic, and busy that surround sound won't give you much tactical benefit (but I guess it could help immersion). The V1 corsair Vengeance series PC headsets were actually highly rated _for PC gaming headsets_, but good music headphones always beat gaming headsets for price and all-around sound quality. Just get a good headphone and add whatever mic you want; lapel mics are great for consoles and all-around use, but Creative sound card products also come with good stereo microphones.


----------



## JohnClosed

Those corsair are really bad, i had ones and trust me one of the the worst headsets i ever had.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Is that the first time you saw the demo? It was posted on your thread by Feg and then again (and it's possible industry effect) discussed on my thread. I'm not exactly sure what AstoundSound is... I thought it was GenAudio and AMD created a piece of audio-processing hardware called TrueAudio to be placed on Radeon graphics cards (and the Radeon-equipped PS4). I did read that it interacts with games before FMOD or Wwise processing, and apparently consideration was taken to make it easy to implement. I'd rather invite talk about it on my thread than derail the headphone guide, but in short this sounds like the second coming of OpenAL.


 
  
 I haven't really followed Head-Fi too closely as of late. Too many damn final projects and exams coming up...
  
 From what I can tell, GenAudio's AstoundSound is a software plugin for FMOD Ex and Wwise that provides the neat 3D audio mix featured in that video, and while it can run on the CPU, they support the AMD TrueAudio DSP to keep the workload from eating up precious CPU cycles.
  
 The TrueAudio DSP itself is utilized before it ever hits the Windows audio stack, so it's mixed and ready to output through any audio device, be it the graphics card's HDMI audio path, a sound card, a USB DAC, or anything else Windows recognizes as an audio playback device.
  
 I wouldn't expect too much difference from AstoundSound's CPU-mixed codepath in that regard.
  
 Also consider that TrueAudio is just a DSP, free for developers to use in any way they best see fit. It's a bit of a contrast to Aureal and Creative's approach of putting DSPs on their sound cards primarily to support their own 3D audio technologies and then sell their own 3D audio tech to game developers.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Hailin,
> I bet the optical in is just for stereo PCM input.
> 
> Bakuryu,
> ...



You could look at the steel series headsets,they are supposed to be good Bakuryu!


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not going to answer the same questions over and over.
> I don't understand why people feel the need to ask questions answered on the guide.
> 
> If I'm ranting, I apologize, but every joe schmo thinks they're the only ones who ask me questions, when* I get the same exact ones on a daily basis.*
> ...


 
  
  
 Maybe the guide could use a *"F.A.Q" *section, and you could just say "check the FAQ" everytime someone asks one of the same questions that gets asked every day.
  
 Some of us could help you write some of the answers.  I know I've answered the same questions many times, and it'd be nice to say "check the FAQ" instead.


----------



## DCB305

chicolom said:


> Maybe the guide could use a *"F.A.Q" *section, and you could just say "check the FAQ" everytime someone asks one of the same questions that gets asked every day.
> 
> Some of us could help you write some of the answers.  I know I've answered the same questions many times, and it'd be nice to say "check the FAQ" instead.


 
 Great suggestion, I know I have asked my fair share of questions on the forum (never pm'd anyone though) and have been given very helpful answers, suggestions and advice. We got to remember though, as a community, this thread is now 1200+ pages. A lot of our questions have been answered somewhere before, but it will take a long time finding them so I don't blame anyone for not sifting through all the comments. 
  
 Happy Thanksgiving everyone! God bless you and your families.


----------



## Bakuryu

evshrug said:


> Bakuryu,
> All the AD series of Audio Technica open headphones use velour earpads. I personally liked the competitive AD700 which was also a great price value, but if you listen to music or like more bass, then a more balanced headphone would be recommended.





> And it's not that the Corsair is bad for BF4... It's just that BF4 is so chaotic, hectic, and busy that surround sound won't give you much tactical benefit (but I guess it could help immersion). The V1 corsair Vengeance series PC headsets were actually highly rated _for PC gaming headsets_, but good music headphones always beat gaming headsets for price and all-around sound quality. Just get a good headphone and add whatever mic you want; lapel mics are great for consoles and all-around use, but Creative sound card products also come with good stereo microphones.


 
  
 So the Audio Technica  are good for both gaming and music/other things? I mean I don't listen to music a lot, but when I do I'd like it to sound good. Can you link me to this competitive AD700? I only see regular AD700. Also most of them so far I've seen are far over budget, although ones I can look for if they get discounted on cyber Monday. The Corsair looks nice and its the second version which is why I guess it doesn't have as many reviews. Although someone right below you just said they were bad so now idk.I was looking at a Zal mic it was pretty cheap and highly rated would that work? Would I need a creative sound card? Like I said I have a USB 7.1 audio box (guess this is considered an external soundcard?) is that not good enough?
  


johnclosed said:


> Those corsair are really bad, i had ones and trust me one of the the worst headsets i ever had.


 
  
 Really? Did you have the first version or the new one? What was wrong with them?
  


martin vegas said:


> > Bakuryu,
> > All the AD series of Audio Technica open headphones use velour earpads. I personally liked the competitive AD700 which was also a great price value, but if you listen to music or like more bass, then a more balanced headphone would be recommended.
> >
> > And it's not that the Corsair is bad for BF4... It's just that BF4 is so chaotic, hectic, and busy that surround sound won't give you much tactical benefit (but I guess it could help immersion). The V1 corsair Vengeance series PC headsets were actually highly rated _for PC gaming headsets_, but good music headphones always beat gaming headsets for price and all-around sound quality. Just get a good headphone and add whatever mic you want; lapel mics are great for consoles and all-around use, but Creative sound card products also come with good stereo microphones.
> ...


 
  
 Most until the end looked kinda meh. The steel series looks nice only because it seems the main band has metal to it although the side of it is plastic which is where both of mine have broken so far. Those pleather ear covers though need replacements if they have them. The steel series hits my max budget which I'm not happy with, but if they are worth it and will last I don't mind. The top 10's number ones look pretty nice and aren't a bad price either. Anyone got any experience with these?
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006ZS5ATM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B006ZS5ATM&linkCode=as2&tag=euroclubhits-20


----------



## JohnClosed

btw guys i didnt get the Essence STX for my dt 990 250ohm, unlucky it was sold 2 hours before :S 
 what do you think about this one Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus Solo (http://www.asus.com/ROG_ROG/ROG_Xonar_Phoebus_Solo/#specifications)


----------



## PurpleAngel

johnclosed said:


> btw guys i didnt get the Essence STX for my dt 990 250ohm, unlucky it was sold 2 hours before :S
> what do you think about this one Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus Solo (http://www.asus.com/ROG_ROG/ROG_Xonar_Phoebus_Solo/#specifications)


 

 Check here about the latest info on the drivers for the Phoebus.
 http://rog.asus.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?136-Xonar-Phoebus-Series-Sound-Cards


----------



## JohnClosed

purpleangel said:


> Check here about the latest info on the drivers for the Phoebus.
> http://rog.asus.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?136-Xonar-Phoebus-Series-Sound-Cards


 
  Damn alot of driver bugs :S i think i will save some euros to get the ST/STX its the best choice for the money , right?


----------



## PurpleAngel

johnclosed said:


> Damn a lot of driver bugs :S i think I will save some euros to get the ST/STX its the best choice for the money , right?


 
 I think the STX is a good choice.
  
 A Xonar DX or D1 sound card, combined with a O2 (Objective 2) headphone amplifier, makes a good setup.
 As long as you have no plans for also using speakers (otherwise you spend time swapping the jacks).


----------



## SaLX

Review of the new Audio Technica ATH-AG1 (closed back) gaming headset:
  
 http://www.onlysp.com/audio-technica-ath-ag1-hardware-review/


----------



## HPuser9083

Could swapping the stock UR40 drivers out for KSC75s or KSC35s help their sound a bit?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I doubt it, since the UR40 seems to use the same drivers as the KSC75 to begin with, with a different enclosure. As everyone should know by now, the Koss drivers are very reliant on how close they are to your ears, and seal. The stronger they press on the ears, the warmer and bassier they get. Because the UR40 pressed against the ears AND use a circumaural fit that seals between the driver and the ears, you get a ton of warmth and bass. Too much, I say. With the standard foams on the KSC75, you don't get the same type of strong seal, and both the 75 and 35 drivers are more balanced because of it.

It's like when people told me to try the PX200 pads on the Koss headphones. Biggest mistake ever. It was overly dark, and overly bassy. Dunno What kind of improvements people were referring to, but they sounded like crap. I guess if you want an overstated amount of bass, sure...

In the case of the UR40, it's not the drivers that are limited, but the headphone assembly/housing itself. I would just get a KSC75 with a parts express headband, if you want an instant improvement over the UR40. Or better, buy the Sportapro and PE headband. That's the closest to the UR40 in terms of being warm and bassy, but still, much better.

What people don't understand about the KSC75, is that they don't bend the clips inward to make the drivers press against the ear. This is an absolute must, since the KSC75 fresh out of the box are too separated from the clips, and you lose a lot of their warmth and fullness. They think the Parts express headband offers an improvement over the clips, because the headband allows the drivers to press towards the ears. The truth is, so can the clips.


----------



## HPuser9083

Or just pick up some Portapros or SR60s. And I tried the earpad swap with the earpads off a cheap pair of Sentry wireless headphones on my Portas, they sounded terrible, while they sound epic with the stock foamies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd rather save money and pick up the Sportapro + parts express headband. The Portapro and Sportapro = same drivers, different headband assembly. Both headband assemblies suck compared to the Parts Express headband, IMHO. Personally, I'd ditch all the headbands, and use the KSC75's clips (not the drivers....save them for a rainy day), which to me are the most comfortable out of all configurations with these drivers.

BTW guys, Amazon has upgraded the K702's image page. Looks like all their standard K702s are bumpless now. The Q701 is still considerably cheaper, but still have the bumps. If they manage to get the K702 to around the Q701's price, I'd consider getting them, and ordering some Annie pads...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys, Amazon has upgraded the K702's image page. Looks like all their standard K702s are bumpless now. The Q701 is still considerably cheaper, but still have the bumps. If they manage to get the K702 to around the Q701's price, I'd consider getting them, and ordering some Annie pads...


 
  
 I'd confirm with the third part seller, still, just to make sure before pulling the trigger (when the time comes). Yes, Amazon has updated the photo but since it's only sold by third party sellers one cannot be sure if they no longer have the bumpy K702s at their warehouse.
  
 Always safe to double check...


----------



## Skipshrike

Sennheiser has their relatively new PC363D's which, I think, are slightly different looking PC360's with a 7.1 USB sound card. The headset has a built in mic, which flips up for mute, and an integrated volume control on one of the ear cups.

FYI, those needing a complete solution for gaming in PC. Bonus: you can unplug the headset from the USB sound card and then use the two 3.5mm jacks for consoles (provided you have a mixamp or similar device).

However, I a reviewer mentioned that you can't change much besides 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1 output options. No EQ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I'd confirm with the third part seller, still, just to make sure before pulling the trigger (when the time comes). Yes, Amazon has updated the photo but since it's only sold by third party sellers one cannot be sure if they no longer have the bumpy K702s at their warehouse.
> 
> Always safe to double check...




OOOOOH yeah. I completely forgot to check that. I assume if/when Amazon gets the K702 in stock directly from AKG, it's safe to say they'll have the newest stock which will be bumpless.

As much as I absolutely love my MA900, after a certain amount of hours, my ears get a little sore resting on the driver padding. The AKGs never have that issue due to the depth of the pads. Seems like there is no perfection in comfort. The MA900 comes very close, but needs a looooot more depth to the pads, and the headband padding is pretty much non-existent. One thing i can say about the standard K70x/Q701, is that they had the best pads in terms of comfort for me. They weren't overly soft to the point of losing depth, and breathed more than the Annie pads. I just wish they sounded like the Annies, but still with the standard K70x pads.

Well it's either the K70x or the HE-4's velours. They were glorious in comfort.


----------



## Change is Good

I took this picture yesterday and wanted to share. I thought it was so funny how the flash made her wink lol...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very nice. Change, so how's the 1840 with the 1540 pads? Worth it?


----------



## Change is Good

It depends on what one is expecting... it definitely has its trade-offs.
  
 The 1540 pads increase the low end on the 1840 by a SIGNIFICANT amount in exchange for a much smaller soundstage and smoother treble...
  
 To me, since I only own the 1840 (or any other open headphone at that) for the purpose of gaming and listening to jazz and classical music... the stock pads are what I prefer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

True. I'd probably prefer the 1840 in stock form. My brain doesn't register trade offs from stock as a good thing the vast majority of the time.


----------



## Change is Good

I've asked you this before but I'm not _SHURE_ if you've seen it or not. When you are up to it let me know and I will send them in for review... with both sets of pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah man, I have. Lol. Just a bit limited on funds right now (I basically sold all my rare Ps1 games to fund for Ghosts and Ys: Memories of Celceta).

I have a very bad roommate situation, and because I don't know if he's gonna pay his share, I need to save up the little money I get for the evenetual emergency.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh ok, I see... I completely understand.
  
 Let me see how December looks once I get all my bills out of the way and I may be able to just paypal you the return shipping cost... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I've posted enough in this thread to finally contribute a headphone for review. And I'm _SHURE _a lot of us are eager for a new review, anyway... so up to you.
  
 I'll shoot you a PM when I get a clear picture of what my funds will look like. Just don't mistake it for all the other messages you're flooded with lol


----------



## Change is Good

If anyone wants to add me on PSN... send me a request
  
*INFAMOUS-CARTEL*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm down for it, if you are.

So I had to pay $18 to send my KSC35 and Sportapro back to Koss for repair. I'll basically have two KSC35s. May just leave one in my backpack, and one at home, though I guess, one will have to be hooked up to the PE headband (as much as I would rather have clips, I only have one set). was thinking of buying another pair of KSC75s, just for the clips, but even those $10 are something i don't wanna spend. The modded PX100 sounds great, but it isn't as comfortable as I'd like.

And lol, I look at all my messages. I just don't reply to all the generic ones.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I'll be down as long as I have the extra funds...
  
 What games do you have for PS4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Killzone: Shadow Fall, Call of Duty: Ghosts, and whatever came free like Resogun.

Was considering Need For Speed Rivals, since I still have some gift card money from all my PS1 game trade ins. But with Ys, and some steam backlog, I won't be playing too much PS4. Still, send me a request. I'll definitely add you. I check my PS4 daily, so I still would put in some CoD rounds. I don't play KZ. I beat the campaign, and tried multiplayer, but I'm a CoD guy at heart. KZ is too slow and awkward for me.


----------



## Change is Good

I own BF4, Rivals, NBA 2K14, and Injustice.
  
 I'd love to try either Shadowfall or Ghosts so I'll send you one of my games to borrow whenever I send the 1840... if you don't mind letting me borrow one of those in return.
  
 And what's your ID? Sorry, haven't had a chance to check your PS4 live stream to see...


----------



## AxelCloris

Since you guys are talking PSN, 12 months for $30. Might be beneficial.


----------



## Change is Good

Lol I was pissed when I saw that...
  
 I bought my 1yr sub when I bought the PS4 smh


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I own BF4, Rivals, NBA 2K14, and Injustice.
> 
> I'd love to try either Shadowfall or Ghosts so I'll send you one of my games to borrow whenever I send the 1840... if you don't mind letting me borrow one of those in return.
> 
> And what's your ID? Sorry, haven't had a chance to check your PS4 live stream to see...




Aww dude, I bought those games digitally, lol. Since all games have to be installed, I don't see a need to own a physical copy, unless I feel I'm gonna trade it in (which thinking about it... i would...lol, maybe I should've bought the discs).


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Aww dude, I bought those games digitally, lol. Since all games have to be installed, I don't see a need to own a physical copy, unless I feel I'm gonna trade it in *(which thinking about it... i would...lol, maybe I should've bought the discs).*


 
  
 LMAO!
  
 That's exactly why I bought the discs lol
  
 I'll still send one anyway because I never have time to play em all. It's mainly been BF and NBA, as it has always been...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> Since you guys are talking PSN, 12 months for $30. Might be beneficial.




HNNNNG. I dunno when mine is expiring, but I probably shouldn't pass this up.

Change, I sent it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> Since you guys are talking PSN, 12 months for $30. Might be beneficial.


 
  
 Of course it's sold out by the time I actually see this. Argh...and my subscription expires at the end of this year, with most of my PS3 library being PS+ Instant Game Collection stuff...
  
 In other news, my family's decade-old Hitachi 43FWX20B is finally getting retired. They just did some 1am-3am Black Friday shopping and surprised me with a Vizio E420i-A0, which probably isn't the best TV for gaming by a long shot (28-32ms input lag! Most fighting game, rhythm game and shmup fans would sneer at that!), but it shall have to suffice for the living room consoles.
  
 Everything else about it surprises me: full 1920x1080, 120 Hz (albeit likely to be the BS kind where it can't actually accept 120 Hz video signals from PCs), and it's even one of those "smart" sets that directly connects to all the usual Internet video streaming services.
  
 We're currently thinking about where we'll mount it in the living room, which was clearly never designed to be a home theater with the irregular wall layout and windows everywhere. Now would also be a great time to learn how to calibrate HDTVs with the help of HFCR and my colorimeter...


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> We're currently thinking about where we'll mount it in the living room, which was clearly never designed to be a home theater with the irregular wall layout and windows everywhere. Now would also be a great time to learn how to calibrate HDTVs with the help of HFCR and my colorimeter...


 
  
 For a basic calibration any THX mastered DVD or BluRay has a calibration feature to help. If you have the $4 glasses for it it's even better. I've never used HFCR myself. Do you have a Spyder meter or a different brand? I've been looking into picking up a system to calibrate and color match my 3 monitor setup at work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, my TV has a 43ms input lag and it plays fine. I come off a 10ms monitor, and the difference is minute to non-problematic. It becomes a problem at around 60ms. Trust me, I'm picky with input lag. 28-32ms is considered very good on HDTVs, with only some Sony HDTVs pulling under 20ms..

I certainly don't feel the mouse trailing behind my actions when I'm navigating the webz off my TV. I did with a 60ms TV I tested.


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> For a basic calibration any THX mastered DVD or BluRay has a calibration feature to help. If you have the $4 glasses for it it's even better. I've never used HFCR myself. Do you have a Spyder meter or a different brand? I've been looking into picking up a system to calibrate and color match my 3 monitor setup at work.


 
  
 I have an X-Rite i1Display Pro, generally considered the best colorimeter in its price range. Especially when that price was $150 after rebate; Newegg just gave me a 20% off X-Rite products code at the time, and I couldn't resist, especially with the $50 rebate on top!
  


mad lust envy said:


> Umm, my TV has a 43ms input lag and it plays fine. I come off a 10ms monitor, and the difference is minute to non-problematic. It becomes a problem at around 60ms. Trust me, I'm picky with input lag. 28-32ms is considered very good on HDTVs, with only some Sony HDTVs pulling under 20ms..
> 
> I certainly don't feel the mouse trailing behind my actions when I'm navigating the webz off my TV. I did with a 60ms TV I tested.


 
  
 I just don't want it to be like those HDTVs at the university game room with VERY noticeable input lag. I can't believe people play fighting games on those things, since the delay is practically painful.
  
 I'm also still accustomed to the practically-nonexistent input lag of CRT monitors. Of course, my PS3 and other consoles get about 16ms or so of input lag anyway when it has to go through my PC's capture card and through the video viewing/capture app, which I don't find to be much of a setback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It won't be. I'm betting it's because those tvs have their frame interpolation and nonsense picture options turned on, which add a LOT of input lag. Hell, even my TV can jump to over 100ms lag if I turn certain options on. If you know what options to turn off (they shouldn't be on in the first place), or if you turn on Game Mode, your lag will quite noticeably decrease. 28ms-32ms is pretty instant.


----------



## DCB305

Hey guys just saw this on sale on Amazon for $63.59: Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D THX USB External Sound Enhancer for PC, PS3, XBOX 360 and Mac - SB1300


----------



## avens

Mad Lust, would you say the K701 are the very best headphones for competitive gaming on the market? What would be #2 and #3?
  
 I'm looking for an upgrade of my soundstage modded senn 555, but something more significant than a 598. Plus the AKGs do look quite nice compared to them and certainly have better build quality, both which are reasons why I'm also considering the K702 Anniversary edition.
  
 If all factors are considered (music, movies, etc.), I also have a senn 600 dedicated to music listening so it'd be nice to have different brands and signatures, and then again I'm looking for the very best for gaming not the fifth place that the 598 might be.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> Of course it's sold out by the time I actually see this. Argh...and my subscription expires at the end of this year, with most of my PS3 library being PS+ Instant Game Collection stuff...


 
  
 Here you go Nameless. $30 @ Amazon.


----------



## Bakuryu

Ok I need peoples final opinions as I've gathered some suggestions. So now I need a general consensus.

 Here are headsets I've been recommended and am looking at.
  
  
Razer Carcharias Over Ear PC Gaming Headset  - $60

SteelSeries 7H Fnatic - $98

Thermaltake Shock - $80
  
TRITTON 720+ 7.1 Surround Headset for Xbox 360, PS3 and PS4  - $90 (found velour replacements, couldn't find a place to buy though)
  
SteelSeries Siberia V2 - $60 (No velour replacements, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
  
Razer Kraken PRO Over Ear PC and Music Headset - $65 (No velour replacements, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
Plantronics GameCom 780 Surround Sound Stereo PC Gaming Headset - $71
  
Skullcandy SLYR Gaming Headset - $65 (First post guide recommended is a plus, not sure what kind of ear pads they are and I'm worried about the plastic headband as they tend to snap.)
  
Corsair Vengeance 1500 USB Dolby 7.1 Gaming Headset (1500 v2) - $70 (One person recommended, only to have a person right after say there were bad so idk)

 For a headphone + mic combo I'm looking at these for headphones

Sony MDR-V6 Monitor Series Headphones $88

SR850 - Professional Studio Reference Headphones - $50
  
Creative Aurvana Live! Headphones - $82 (First post guide recommended, but I can't find velour replacements, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)

 And for the mic

Zalman Zm-Mic1 High Sensitivity Headphone Microphone - $10
  
  
 Side note: The AD700 look and sound like they would be perfect along with a mic, but there a bit out of my price range (even though the guide says less then a $100 XD)


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> Here you go Nameless. $30 @ Amazon.


 
  
 Awesome! I got a code for $30!
  
 ...and not so awesome is the fact that PSN just keeps giving me "An error has occured." messages every time I try to enter the damn thing.


----------



## JohnClosed

purpleangel said:


> I think the STX is a good choice.
> 
> A Xonar DX or D1 sound card, combined with a O2 (Objective 2) headphone amplifier, makes a good setup.
> As long as you have no plans for also using speakers (otherwise you spend time swapping the jacks).


 
  
  
 I agree with you, but there is a litle problem , the price ! I was ondering if the Asus cards can perfomance as a creative in terms of gaming, since the Creative has CMSS-3D wich is a great feature for games.  I could afford the creative titanium HD as well for my 598's , i hope it wont break because the amp of this card is too strong, or am i wrong?


----------



## chicolom

avens said:


> Mad Lust, would you say the K701 are the very best headphones for competitive gaming on the market? What would be #2 and #3?
> 
> I'm looking for an upgrade of my soundstage modded senn 555, but something more significant than a 598. Plus the AKGs do look quite nice compared to them and certainly have better build quality, both which are reasons why I'm also considering the K702 Anniversary edition.
> 
> ...


 
  
 K701s are not the very best for competitve gaming. 
  
 HD800s or SR009 are probably the very best, but* nothing is going to be that much of an improvement for competitive gaming over the AD700s.*
  
 Your NOT going to keep getting competitive improvements as you go up in price.  The main improvements your going to get are a more _immersive_ sound (fuller weighter sound, better bass).  Sometimes a more immersive sound counteracts a competitive focused sound though.  Part of the reason the AD700 works so well for soundwhoring is because it sounds bright and bass light (counteracts immersion though).
  
 So if your looking for the* very best headphone for competitve gaming*, just get an AD700.  Or get an HD800.  Everything in between the two will offer improvements to _immersion_, but not really improvements for simple competitive sound whoring.
  
 If your willing to trade a little competitive ability for a more immersive and enjoyable sound (and a more audiophile headphone that will be better with music), _then_ you should look at things like the Q701, K712, X1, etc. 
   
  
 Quote:


bakuryu said:


> Ok I need peoples final opinions as I've gathered some suggestions. So now I need a general consensus.
> 
> Here are headsets I've been recommended and am looking at.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Way too many options. 
  
 You pretty much listed every gaming headset out there.  You need to do some more research to narrow it down yourself some. 
  
 I'd cross off a bunch of those unproven gaming headsets though.  I've read the Carcharias _might _be decent.  The Slyrs are decent.  If you can get Trittons 720s for $90, that's a decent deal (assuming you also need a surround sound box for consoles- if not, they don't really make sense).
  
 SR850s are supposedly good some people prefer them to AD700s as they're more immersive.  I'm very picky about comfort though and I know they would fail there for me.  AD700(x), AD900(x), HD558, MA900 are all solid proven choices.
  
 I would not get the Zalman mic.  I own one, and it isn't a great mic from my experience.  It's not sensitive enough for a clip on mic.  This had been stated many times on this forum (and by the OP as well) so I'm not sure why people still keep mentioning it.  I suspect it still gets recommened on some PC forums and people come here form those forums thinking it's the best option. 
  
  
  
  
 Yeah.  We need to write a FAQ...


----------



## Bakuryu

chicolom said:


> K701s are not the very best for competitve gaming.
> 
> HD800s or SR009 are probably the very best, but* nothing is going to be that much of an improvement for competitive gaming over the AD700s.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well that's the problem. I've been given a dozen recommendations and I've researched a lot of them, but I don't know what to look for. I simply want a good (for) gaming headphone/set (+mic) for $100 with velour earpads that won't break easily. The guide I've looked over multiple times and looked many other places and none seem to fit my budget and the ones that do have pleather ear pads, are gaming headsets (people seem to not like those), have few reviews and or recent bad review even though they are overall highly rated.
  
 Edit: A suggestion from MDL would be reassuring, is my budget the problem?


----------



## avens

Thanks for the answer. Would you say the AD700s are a sizable upgrade coming from soundstage modded 555s? Way better than the 598?
  
 Same questions go about the K701 (and relateD) compared with the 555 and 598s, knowing the K701s won't be as good soundstage-wise as the AD700s. Right now I'm more interested in the AKGs than in the 700s because they are overall better, but I must know before hand if the soundstage and overall gaming aspects of the AKGs are better than the 555s and 598s, and also if the difference between the AD700s and AKGs for gaming is substantial enough for me to forget about the nicer AKGs.
  
 To be honest the reason why I didn't buy the 598 today is not only that I want a 10/10 headphone for gaming instead of a 9.5/10, but it also has hideous looks (one of the worst looking I've ever seen) and I know low tier sennheisers don't have great build quality. That's why I'm now thinking about the AD700 in particular (infinite soundstage) and the AKGs (way better headphones overall). The HD800s are discarded since that's overkill for what I want.


----------



## SaLX

Go for these - Stereo, built very well, has a mic, velour cups and gets good reviews: http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/headphones/1299214/qpad-qh-85.


----------



## davisman

I have been testing out my new Vali for the past few hours, and I have some impressions. With the rubber feet, and on a solid surface the micro-phonics really are not that bad, but I expect for a lot of people to make a huge deal of it. Just when you first turn it on, or plug in a headphone, and its gone within a minute. I have noticed that the lower the impedance the worse it is. 
  
 It sounds great with all of my headphones (hd598s, akg 702 annies, Grado sr80i music only), except my denon d600s. For the money you really cant go wrong. 
  
 This amp is really good for gaming with my hd598s, it adds a touch of immersion. I cant wait to try out my He400s with this amp, black friday always leaves me broke. 
  
 ETA: This amp pairs with the mixamp really well. I have the 2013 mixamp and I am able to set the mixamp's volume to ~98% and you are able to hide the hiss pretty well. With the asgard & ibasso, the hiss was a lot more noticeable at lower volumes (amp and mixamp).


----------



## davisman

avens said:


> Thanks for the answer. Would you say the AD700s are a sizable upgrade coming from soundstage modded 555s? Way better than the 598?
> 
> Same questions go about the K701 (and relateD) compared with the 555 and 598s, knowing the K701s won't be as good soundstage-wise as the AD700s. Right now I'm more interested in the AKGs than in the 700s because they are overall better, but I must know before hand if the soundstage and overall gaming aspects of the AKGs are better than the 555s and 598s, and also if the difference between the AD700s and AKGs for gaming is substantial enough for me to forget about the nicer AKGs.
> 
> To be honest the reason why I didn't buy the 598 today is not only that I want a 10/10 headphone for gaming instead of a 9.5/10, but it also has hideous looks (one of the worst looking I've ever seen) and I know low tier sennheisers don't have great build quality. That's why I'm now thinking about the AD700 in particular (infinite soundstage) and the AKGs (way better headphones overall). The HD800s are discarded since that's overkill for what I want.


 
 My hd598s have held up well, and I would consider the build quality excellent. I upgraded to the akg 702 annies, and they are a better headphone in every way IMO, but they cost 2x more.


----------



## HPuser9083

How would Grados or MDR-V6s work for gaming? A little curious there.


----------



## AvroArrow

davisman said:


> I have been testing out my new Vali for the past few hours, and I have some impressions. With the rubber feet, and on a solid surface the micro-phonics really are not that bad, but I expect for a lot of people to make a huge deal of it. Just when you first turn it on, or plug in a headphone, and its gone within a minute. I have noticed that the lower the impedance the worse it is.
> 
> It sounds great with all of my headphones (hd598s, akg 702 annies, Grado sr80i music only), except my denon d600s. For the money you really cant go wrong.
> 
> This amp is really good for gaming with my hd598s, it adds a touch of immersion.


 
  
 That's good to hear, literally.  I've been holding off getting a $100-150 dedicated amp because I was waiting for the Vali's release.  I also have the HD598 (from an awesome $140 BF deal last week) and K702 Annies currently driven by Audioengine D1 and sometimes Fiio E17.  I really wanted to try the tube sound, but all the sub-$100 tube amps available (before the Vali) were not very appealing.
  


davisman said:


> My hd598s have held up well, and I would consider the build quality excellent. I upgraded to the akg 702 annies, and they are a better headphone in every way IMO, but they cost 2x more.


 
  
 What are you driving your headphones with?  I just got the HD598 a couple days ago and to me they actually sound more... fun and musical than my Annies driven by the D1.  I find the bass more enjoyable with the HD598 vs Annies when I listen to music (mostly female vocals, pop, rock).  Mids, treble, and detail is better with the Annies.  I haven't really done any critical listening nor gaming with them yet, but for pure fun music enjoyment, I actually prefer the HD598 right now.  Maybe I'm not driving my Annies properly with only the D1 or E17?  Considering my Annies cost 2.6x more, I think the HD598 are pretty good bang for buck.  Build wise, I think the Annies and AD700 feel more solid than the HD598.


----------



## Evshrug

Grado's & Sony V6 are good and would work... I do love my dad's Grado SR60 (which I bought for him) with some awesome 70's Rock, they really make me wanna headbang, but neither of those headphones have that magic soundstage juice that makes the ambient world in a videogame come to life. But they're still good headphones.

I got my AD700 four years ago for about $80 from a 3rd party seller on Amazon. And I had a bad customer service experience, it took a month to actually get the headphone I ordered because apparently their inventory system thought the A700 was the same headphone. Now I'd rather spend a bit more and get the right product directly from Amazon. If competitive gaming surround/tactical is your absolute priority, then the AD700 or AD700x is your answer.

For me, my first AKG was an upgrade (Q701) in warmth and immersion (music sounded more lively and got me more involved!) with almost no drawbacks, it took me a few months to realize that the frontal soundstage imaging depth was a bit shorter than with the AD700 until I bought a nice tube amp. I kept both headphones for quite a few months, trying to decide between the quality difference and value, but in the end the Q701 won out because it was the headphone I wanted to listen to.

The Sony MDR-MA900 was the first headphone I'd heard that joined in the AD700 and Q701's (and K712's) rarified echelon of having very good and noticeable soundstage. It was very good at creating a space, but ultimately I felt it wasn't enough of a bargain (for me, bought my Q701 used HEY-OOh!) and it was the same comparison again where the K712 sounded more lively and begged to be used. I probably would've sold my K712 by now, except that with the Q701, K712, and MA900 all available at once, the Q seemed to have a touch less mids than I was looking for... but by itself I would never have noticed. Recent reviews of the K612 have me very interested from a value and balanced-yet-lively point of view, but knowing myself, I would probably end up owning 3 different yet very similar AKG models h34r:


----------



## Evshrug

AvroArrow,
If the Vali is anything like my tube amp, you may find the Annie's taking the lead in musicality. Then again, the Sennheiser sound may be just more your preference, and that's totally fine too.

...

If you get the Vali, you'll probably like the effect with the HD598, but despite the cost you may find it hard to resist the Annies on the same setup with the amp. AKGs really seem to reveal differences in amps, the sennheisers I've heard tend to gloss over the differences and impart their sound signature.


----------



## chicolom

avens said:


> Thanks for the answer. Would you say the AD700s are a sizable upgrade coming from soundstage modded 555s? Way better than the 598?
> 
> Same questions go about the K701 (and relateD) compared with the 555 and 598s, knowing the K701s won't be as good soundstage-wise as the AD700s. Right now I'm more interested in the AKGs than in the 700s because they are overall better, but I must know before hand if the soundstage and overall gaming aspects of the AKGs are better than the 555s and 598s, and also if the difference between the AD700s and AKGs for gaming is substantial enough for me to forget about the nicer AKGs.
> 
> To be honest the reason why I didn't buy the 598 today is not only that I want a 10/10 headphone for gaming instead of a 9.5/10, but it also has hideous looks (one of the worst looking I've ever seen) and I know low tier sennheisers don't have great build quality. That's why I'm now thinking about the AD700 in particular (infinite soundstage) and the AKGs (way better headphones overall). The HD800s are discarded since that's overkill for what I want.


 
  
  
 The AD700 is a slight upgrade in soundstage from the HD5xx, but is also a step back in terms of immersion. 
  
 HD55x and the AKGs are almost on par with each other in terms of competitive soundwhoring.  The main benefit from the AKGs is in immersion and music listening (fuller sound, better extension, more detailed and refined).
  
 If you only want 10/10 soundwhoring (and not the 9.5/10 from the Senns and AKGs), then the AD700 is a logical choice.
  
 Only caring about maximum soundwhoring ability in a headphone is sort of equivalent to only caring about maximum frames per second with your graphics.  You may get a slight advantage by sacrificing certain settings to squeeze out those extra FPS, but the graphics will be more bland and less exciting.    I would rather trade of a few of those extra FPS for that richer and more immersive experience. 
  
  



salx said:


> Go for these - Stereo, built very well, has a mic, velour cups and gets good reviews: http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/headphones/1299214/qpad-qh-85.


 
  
  
 I believe those are a headset version/rebrand of the Takstar hi2050 headphone (which itself goes by a bunch of other names). 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/585356/the-takstar-technical-pro-gemini-greathon-thread
  
 They get decent reviews and are also quite cheap, so they are probably one of the better options in the sub 100 bracket.
  
  
  
 Quote:


davisman said:


> I have been testing out my new Vali for the past few hours, and I have some impressions. With the rubber feet, and on a solid surface the micro-phonics really are not that bad, but I expect for a lot of people to make a huge deal of it.


 
  
 Microphonics...on a desktop _amp?  _
  
 I don't understand.
  


hpuser9083 said:


> How would Grados or MDR-V6s work for gaming? A little curious there.


 
  
  
 Can't speak on the MDRV6, but the lower end Grados are just OK.  They don't really have anything special about the soundstage IMO.  They sounded intimate next to my Q701s.


----------



## AvroArrow

chicolom said:


> Microphonics...on a desktop _amp?  _
> 
> I don't understand.


 
  
 It's documented in the Vali thread.  If you tap the casing or just plug in the headphones, the vibrations shake the tubes and if you listen to it right away, you'll hear an EEEEeeeeee or ringing sound that decreases and goes away in about a minute.  Schiit says it's one of the several trade-offs of the design to hit that price point.  It's on their product FAQ page.  I still want to try it out as I've never heard a tube amp before and it looks to be more powerful than both of my DAC/Amp combos.


----------



## AvroArrow

evshrug said:


> AvroArrow,
> If the Vali is anything like my tube amp, you may find the Annie's taking the lead in musicality. Then again, the Sennheiser sound may be just more your preference, and that's totally fine too.
> 
> ...
> ...


 
  
 I've never heard proper mid-fi Sennheisers before (I had the RS116 wireless headphones before, which I passed along to my sister and they definitely did not sound anything like the HD598) and I'm liking them so far, especially for the price I paid.  Apparently they're supposed to sound even better after burn in... and I've only listened to them for less than 10 hours since I got them.  I'm hoping the Vali will make my Annies even more musical and enjoyable because while the HD598 are quite comfortable for my big head, the Annies are still better comfort wise.  Might be a while before I get the Vali though... I went a little bit crazy with BF shopping and the Vali while for sale, isn't on sale.


----------



## davisman

avroarrow said:


> That's good to hear, literally.  I've been holding off getting a $100-150 dedicated amp because I was waiting for the Vali's release.  I also have the HD598 (from an awesome $140 BF deal last week) and K702 Annies currently driven by Audioengine D1 and sometimes Fiio E17.  I really wanted to try the tube sound, but all the sub-$100 tube amps available (before the Vali) were not very appealing.
> 
> 
> What are you driving your headphones with?  I just got the HD598 a couple days ago and to me they actually sound more... fun and musical than my Annies driven by the D1.  I find the bass more enjoyable with the HD598 vs Annies when I listen to music (mostly female vocals, pop, rock).  Mids, treble, and detail is better with the Annies.  I haven't really done any critical listening nor gaming with them yet, but for pure fun music enjoyment, I actually prefer the HD598 right now.  Maybe I'm not driving my Annies properly with only the D1 or E17?  Considering my Annies cost 2.6x more, I think the HD598 are pretty good bang for buck.  Build wise, I think the Annies and AD700 feel more solid than the HD598.


 
 I guess everybody hears things different, but I feel like the annie does everything the hd598s do but better. Especially with the bass, and the larger soundstage, and detail. Its not that the HD598s are bad, they are a screaming deal at $140. 
  
 I use a Schiit bifrost/asgard 2. 
  
  


evshrug said:


> If you get the Vali, you'll probably like the effect with the HD598, but despite the cost you may find it hard to resist the Annies on the same setup with the amp. AKGs really seem to reveal differences in amps, the sennheisers I've heard tend to gloss over the differences and impart their sound signature.


 
 Truth. Probably the reason I have been going amp crazy lately, its nice to hear the differences. 
  
 I am really intrigued by tube amps now, the Vali is a pretty cool piece of kit.


----------



## Evshrug

Read the Vali thread (seems these days I rarely venture out from my favourite threads >_<). In short:

Hnnnnnggggg!

The positive traits described of the included Raytheon tube match my description of what I liked/loved about my Sylvania JAN 6DJ8. Seriously, I recommend people read the first two or three pages of that thread. You can't change the tube, which is kind of a bummer, but the Sylvania was (is?) my favourite even though I do like my Voskhod.

My only caution would be the microphonics... I eventually swapped away from my Bugle Boy tube just because it was pretty easy to get that metallic "ting," which I found annoying and eventually (after months of usage) seemed like sometimes the ring never settled. This is a different tube and circumstance though, and a little more R&D went into this Vali I think. Mention of dampening rubber grommets made me take notice, might be a worthwhile mod.

Anyway, I guess now I'm woken up a bit (crashed after work, I'm in retail so I'm sure you guys understand), I may as well pop in my new disc and play the first level of CoD: Ghosts.


----------



## AxelCloris

Chico, if you ever want to hear the Vali mine will be in tomorrow. So once the wife and I get our new place you'd be welcome to come listen to it for a bit.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Maybe the guide could use a *"F.A.Q"* section, and you could just say "check the FAQ" everytime someone asks one of the same questions that gets asked every day.
> 
> Some of us could help you write some of the answers.  I know I've answered the same questions many times, and it'd be nice to say "check the FAQ" instead.







dcb305 said:


> Great suggestion, I know I have asked my fair share of questions on the forum (never pm'd anyone though) and have been given very helpful answers, suggestions and advice. We got to remember though, as a community, this thread is now 1200+ pages. A lot of our questions have been answered somewhere before, but it will take a long time finding them so I don't blame anyone for not sifting through all the comments.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving everyone! God bless you and your families.



Believe you me, in the mere near 2 years I've been following this thread (which has been going on longer), I know the post count climbs. Honestly sometimes, I think that if the regular contributors just STOPPED posting today, people asking the repeat questions would look back 2-3 pages to see a response to basically the same question. And maybe, if the regulars kept posting while ignoring help requests, the requesters may read the guide and apply critical thinking to gauge if a review fits the kind of sound they're looking for. I mean seriously, if a headphone is not in the guide, it is either an inferior choice for gaming OR simply fails to have an attractive sound to get Mad (or one one else experienced) to review it. That said, ALL THAT SAID, even though I feel like I could almost cut/paste (and have a few times), I still reply from time to time because it feels good to help people.



bakuryu said:


> So the Audio Technica  are good for both gaming and music/other things? I mean I don't listen to music a lot, but when I do I'd like it to sound good. Can you link me to this competitive AD700? I only see regular AD700. Also most of them so far I've seen are far over budget, although ones I can look for if they get discounted on cyber Monday. The Corsair looks nice and its the second version which is why I guess it doesn't have as many reviews. Although someone right below you just said they were bad so now idk.I was looking at a Zal mic it was pretty cheap and highly rated would that work? Would I need a creative sound card? Like I said I have a USB 7.1 audio box (guess this is considered an external soundcard?) is that not good enough?
> 
> *Evshrug: the regular AD700 is competitive advantage for gamers. It's okay for music, especially if you are ok with using EQ to tailor sound to a genre, but the native, natural sound of an AD700 is not neutral and better suited for games. It has tight but subdued bass that rolls off early, mostly neutral mids, colored/elevated treble, and a lot of airflow to the big drivers which helps them provide a very broad soundstage which often makes sound seem to come from the room around you. This is all beneficial to competitive gaming, because the soundstage works very very well with surround DSPs, and the frequency response focuses you on the tactical sounds you need to hear and makes distractions, like bass rumble, less likely to overshadow and distract you from your focus. However, the treble "sparkle" and sometimes the spacious soundstage are the only above-average parts for music, and for several genres of music the AD700 will seem too laid-back and light-sounding. Like I said, the AD700 responds well to EQ, but changing EQ more eventually degrades sound*
> 
> ...


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> AvroArrow,
> If the Vali is anything like my tube amp, you may find the Annie's taking the lead in musicality. Then again, the Sennheiser sound may be just more your preference, and that's totally fine too.
> 
> ...
> ...




I have noticed AKGs to be very revealing of a system, give them a good system they like and they really sing, I personally think they sound best on tubes despite what many people say, but then again everything sounds better on tubes to me, I have yet to hear a headphone I like better on a SS amp. I do find AKGs a bit more revealing than Senns but I do like the Senn sound just not las much as the AKG sound. I've personally always found tube amps to be a lot more immersive and musical than SS amps, SS amps sound dull and flat in comparison to me and I don't hear more detail, or anything out of the SS amps I've heard compared to equally priced tube amps.


----------



## davisman

Man this vali is really growing on me. At first I thought the asgard2 was the clear winner, and it still is on multiple levels, but man the vali sounds good. The vali does have that tube sound, although its not thick or muddy like some tube amps can be. I think its the bass that I like the most. It doesn't seem the color the music at all, and the bass is probably the same, but I notice it more. 
  
 It was pretty fun last night playing ghosts with my friends. the Hd598s are pretty godlike for sound-whoring, but they are not a 'fun' can for me. The Vali helps a tad with the bass.


----------



## Bakuryu

evshrug said:


> *The regular AD700 is competitive advantage for gamers. It's okay for music, especially if you are ok with using EQ to tailor sound to a genre, but the native, natural sound of an AD700 is not neutral and better suited for games. It has tight but subdued bass that rolls off early, mostly neutral mids, colored/elevated treble, and a lot of airflow to the big drivers which helps them provide a very broad soundstage which often makes sound seem to come from the room around you. This is all beneficial to competitive gaming, because the soundstage works very very well with surround DSPs, and the frequency response focuses you on the tactical sounds you need to hear and makes distractions, like bass rumble, less likely to overshadow and distract you from your focus. However, the treble "sparkle" and sometimes the spacious soundstage are the only above-average parts for music, and for several genres of music the AD700 will seem too laid-back and light-sounding. Like I said, the AD700 responds well to EQ, but changing EQ more eventually degrades sound*


 
  
 Although the AD700 sound (heh no pun intended) like what I am looking for the price is not, is there nothing a step below the AD700 that are in my price range? I'm looking at the Sennheiser HD 558 Headphones used right now, based on some reading with a little modding they can be great. The only thing I am also no worried about is do I need an amp for these headphones as well? Because that hasn't really been fit into my budget -_-.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

bakuryu said:


> Although the AD700 sound (heh no pun intended) like what I am looking for the price is not, is there nothing a step below the AD700 that are in my price range? I'm looking at the Sennheiser HD 558 Headphones used right now, based on some reading with a little modding they can be great. The only thing I am also no worried about is do I need an amp for these headphones as well? Because that hasn't really been fit into my budget -_-.


 The Samson SR850 (Superlux HD668B) have the same sound signature of the AD700, but with a smaller soundstage and more bass, with way better extension. They also sell for $50 retail.


----------



## Bakuryu

hifigamer1995 said:


> The Samson SR850 (Superlux HD668B) have the same sound signature of the AD700, but with a smaller soundstage and more bass, with way better extension. They also sell for $50 retail.


 
  
 Can anyone else confirm this, because this would be amazing.


----------



## Gun21

I'm about to get hold of the Philips X1 (for free - lucky person) and will hopefully buy an AKG 702 Anniversary/K712 pro in the new year. I did a search and saw that MLE would spring for the Audio-GD 11.32 in a heartbeat; thing is I'm wondering if the slightly warmer, more musical Audio-GD 15.32 would fit the bill given the choice of headphones above. I've read that the 11.32 is a bit cold sounding even though it's great for detail. I'll be gaming in DH (via a cheapo Xonar - HT Purpleangel) and listening to uncompressed music too.
  
 I'd seriously love any advice on this as it'd be a very long term investment:


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

bakuryu said:


> Can anyone else confirm this, because this would be amazing.


 Here's a graph comparing their frequently responses:http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3301&graphID%5B1%5D=2661&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

bakuryu said:


> Can anyone else confirm this, because this would be amazing.


I wouldn't get the AD700 unless you plan to use them only for competitive gaming because they are pretty bass-light. I would also get the AntLion ModMic instead of the Zalman clip-on mic because it's right next to your mouth and will pick up your voice much easier. You can get velour ear pads from this vendor on eBay if you don't like the stock pleather ones: http://m.ebay.com/itm/251375506165?nav=SEARCH&sbk=1


----------



## Kursah

So I want something bassier than my HARX700's, my D2000's are down and out for the time being....and I have less than $200 to play with. I was thinking the nuforce 800's... I am a basshead. I can EQ bass down when needed for gaming, not worried about that. Any suggestions for my limited budget? Something with some comfort that's decent for gaming, closed, bassy, and works for rock, hard rock, metal and classical?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hifigamer1995 said:


> Here's a graph comparing their frequently responses:http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php?graphID%5B0%5D=3301&graphID%5B1%5D=2661&graphID%5B2%5D=&graphID%5B3%5D=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph




The bass hump on the Superlux is MASSIVE compared to the AD700, which would alter our perception of it's sound signature quite heavily. The upper mid and lower treble regions have between a 5db to 10db difference, which is also night and day and give a completely different upper range presentation.

I highly doubt they sound anything alike. The Superlux looks v-shaped, while the AD700 is mid and treble oriented.

I haven't heard the Superlux. Just going off those graphs, I have a good idea as to what to expect from it especially when comparing it to something I do have good experience with.

http://www.headphone.com/buildAGraph.php?graphID[0]=3301&graphID[1]=413&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

In fact, the superlux as almost an identical graph as the Portapro/sportapro all the way up to the upper mid hump. Both of those are pretty bassy. The complete opposite of the AD700s. You can't analyze sounds as well with headphones with that much bass emphasis.


----------



## HiFiGamer1995

mad lust envy said:


> The bass hump on the Superlux is MASSIVE compared to the AD700, which would alter our perception of it's sound signature quite heavily. The upper mid and lower treble regions have between a 5db to 10db difference, which is also night and day and give a completely different upper range presentation.
> 
> I highly doubt they sound anything alike. The Superlux looks v-shaped, while the AD700 is mid and treble oriented.
> 
> ...


Their sound signatures are definitely not the same, but both are good headphones for gaming. From what I've heard from reviews the bass isn't as nearly in your face on the SR850 compared to the poratpro/sportapro, but I don't own either Koss headphones so I can't be certain. The SR850 aren't as good for competitive as the AD700 because they have quite a bit more bass, but in my opinion the only thing the AD700 is any good for is competitive gaming and I want a headphone that I can use for single player, music, and movies too.


----------



## calpis

@MLE 
 I need to send you my Ultrasone HS-15G headset one of these days. I wouldn't mind seeing it up on the barren list of viable headsets.


----------



## derbigpr

So....I've bought a Logitech G430 headset. Don't ask me why, impulse purchase.  I payed like 100 dollars for it, and its the weirdest, most failed, but at the same time amazing product I've ever bought. Let me explain,  in the package you get the Headset, with a typical 3,5 mm headphone jack, and you get a small USB soundcard with a 3,5 mm output in it. The soundcard works with Logitech's own drivers that gives you ability to EQ sound, set up the 7.1 surround sound in detail...you can adjust each of the speakers, their loudness, etc. 
  
 Anyway, the headset and the USB sound card don't work properly together.  The headset is just to hard to power. Its 50 ohms and has 90 db/v sensitivity. It's almost as hard to get it loud as my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Ridiculous.  Plugged into a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP amp, I have to turn it up almost as far as with the T1's to get same loudness.  When plugged into the USB soundcard, its just not loud, at all. On the loudest setting, it barely on a decent usable volume level. And then when you play something dynamic or bass heavy, or you hear and explosion in a game or a movie, the headphone distorts, because it's not getting enough  power.  Pretty much, the package is useless. BUT, get this. When you plug the Logitech headphones in a headphone amp, man does it sound good. Seriously, for 100 dollars (60 or less in the US) these are actually seriously good headphones. They're quite balanced and very natural sounding. They naturally have a big soundstage, very good imaging and central image. They're not mid-bass heavy, but  are slightly sub-bass heavy. They have a thumping, deep bass, subwoofer like bass, not overly lifted though, still very tight and controlled.  
 So headphones on their own are worth the buy, but don't get the G430, get the G230 instead, they're identical. 
  
 Now to the star of the show.  The USB soundcard.  I have no clue what it does, how it does it, but this thing walks all over my Asus Xonar Essence ST soundcard. This thing can be worth 15-20 dollars most, but the surround sound, the feeling of space, the imaging, the depth of space around you, and the fact it does not significantly change the tonality of the sound when surround sound is enabled, is just amazing.  Quite simply put,  this is the best surround sound I've ever heard on headphones.  The good thing is, you can plug any headphone into it, since its 3,5 mm.  Even when I use my cheapest headphone, Sennheiser HD202, it turns them into a gaming and movie watching beasts. Soundstage and feeling of space, the experience and dynamics, the REALITY of the sound, the detail, everything about this USB stick is amazing. HD202 + Logitech USB sound card sound better in games than T1's or K701's plugged into the Asus ST with dolby headphone enabled. I don't know how, it just does.  Another thing, when you enable the dolby on Asus, it changes the sound. It changes tonality, for the worse. The Logitech drivers do it for better. Human voices actually sound MORE realistic with the surround enabled. It actually feels like a person is standing in front of you.  The behind surround channel are amazing.  You know the dolby headphone video on youtube with the match stick box shaking around you? You know that feeling of the sound coming directly behind you and then it goes down and back up? This is what this Logitech sound card does to EVERYTHING. It just makes it sound real, not different, doesn't change tonality too much, don't add loads of echo or boom like most surround sound effects do, it just takes the flat, boring sounds, and arranges them in a very precise virtual space around you. AND, it actually works with music, because it improves it. I was listening to some DSP jazz albums on the HD202's, and it sounds amazing. The resolution of the sound goes up, detail goes up, imaging is over the top, feeling of space insane, you can almost touch the instruments. I feel like my main headphone setup that consists of T1's M1HPAP and M1DAC was destroyed in anything surround sound related.
 Honestly, I would pay 100$ for the Logitech USB soundcard alone, because it beats any other soundcard or surround sound in headphones I've ever tried before. Sure it doesn't have a lot of power, but add a headphone amp between the headphones and the USB stick, and you have a winner.  So, what to take out of this....when you buy the Logitech G430 package, you get a great headphones and an AMAZING sound card, but they don't work properly together without the addition of the headphone amp.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> The bass hump on the Superlux is MASSIVE compared to the AD700, which would alter our perception of it's sound signature quite heavily. The upper mid and lower treble regions have between a 5db to 10db difference, which is also night and day and give a completely different upper range presentation.
> 
> I highly doubt they sound anything alike. The Superlux looks v-shaped, while the AD700 is mid and treble oriented.
> 
> ...




So if you used the Koss as a base of judgement what would you give it's competitive score out of 10.

Also is the Samson SR850 the same thing with velour pads or what? 

 Anyone else recommend the AntLion Modoc?


----------



## Evshrug

bakuryu said:


> Can anyone else confirm this, because this would be amazing.



On a scale of competitive —well rounded —"Fun", which you can look at as detailed and bass lean — well-rounded — colored sound with exaggerated bass and perhaps a V-shaped freq response, the AD700 is definitely in the competitive side of the scale, and FWIR the Samson/Superlux (though the headband is similar) is on the opposite side of "Fun" headphone. They both have fans, they're just different headphones, and tend to make different things stand out more. Both fare better than average walmart crap.



bakuryu said:


> So if you used the Koss as a base of judgement what would you give it's competitive score out of 10.
> 
> Also is the Samson SR850 the same thing with velour pads or what?
> 
> Anyone else recommend the AntLion Modoc?



Eh, I think the Koss KSC75 I have is a little colored, a bit of extra bass but also sharp treble, so while you don't get a natural sense of soundstage, you do get good positional image and "which way?" directionality. 8 or 8.5 for me, competitive score. Dunno what I'd give the other headphone.

Keep in mind pads have a big effect on sound, with velours you may get decreased bass but also more diffuse imaging. Personally, I really like velours too.

The ModMic is a practical way to give any headphone that headset "feel," plus it's removable. The only downside is it costs more than the already good DX mic Mad uses and the clone I found on Amazon. I would avoid the Zalman.

The last thing I'd say is in regard to the Amp question. If you're just starting the headphone hobby, start with just the nicest headphone *you like* that you can afford. That way you have a better, longer term investment. Later, improve and rediscover your headphone by adding a decent amp. The exception to that strategy is something like the Koss KSC75, buying a good value for the short term for a specific reason like using as a walk-about headphone that you can beat up without feeling bad.


----------



## davisman

gun21 said:


> I'm about to get hold of the Philips X1 (for free - lucky person) and will hopefully buy an AKG 702 Anniversary/K712 pro in the new year. I did a search and saw that MLE would spring for the Audio-GD 11.32 in a heartbeat; thing is I'm wondering if the slightly warmer, more musical Audio-GD 15.32 would fit the bill given the choice of headphones above. I've read that the 11.32 is a bit cold sounding even though it's great for detail. I'll be gaming in DH (via a cheapo Xonar - HT Purpleangel) and listening to uncompressed music too.
> 
> I'd seriously love any advice on this as it'd be a very long term investment:


 
 If you are serious about getting an akg 7 series I would get the warmer amp. Which btw get the k712 over the annies, cheaper these days and they are an upgrade.


----------



## Change is Good

You know? I still have a 30 day trial code for PS plus that came with my ps4. First member with atleast 500+ posts that quotes me can have it via PM.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> You know? I still have a 30 day trial code for PS plus that came with my ps4. First member with at least 500+ posts that quotes me can have it.


 
  
 I don't want it. I just want you to have to give it to the second person. I fixed your spacing too.


----------



## Change is Good

^LOL


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I don't want it. I just want you to have to give it to the second person. I fixed your spacing too.


 
  


change is good said:


> You know? I still have a 30 day trial code for PS plus that came with my ps4. First member with atleast 500+ posts that quotes me can have it via PM.


 
  
 Axel, what happens if I quote myself?!?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Axel, what happens if I quote myself?!?


 
  
 Oh god... the forums are going to evolve! They're becoming self aware! Grab your headphones and RUN!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Oh god... the forums are going to evolve! They're becoming self aware! Grab your headphones and RUN!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Axel, what happens if I quote myself?!? :blink:



What happens if I am the fourth person quoting you and I want ze code, but I quote the wrong post and I don't have a ps4 yet (availability)?

Axel,
You and Change will probably just evolve into a Kakuna and a Metapod, a lotta hardening going on around here.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *What happens if I am the fourth person quoting you and I want ze code, but I quote the wrong post and I don't have a ps4 yet (availability)?*
> 
> Axel,
> You and Change will probably just evolve into a Kakuna and a Metapod, a lotta hardening going on around here.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> What happens if I am the fourth person quoting you and I want ze code, but I quote the wrong post and I don't have a ps4 yet (availability)?
> 
> Axel,
> You and Change will probably just evolve into a Kakuna and a Metapod, a lotta hardening going on around here.


 
  
 PS4 will be available online tomorrow at Sears. Not sure what time it goes live. It'll sell out quickly. Cyber Monday FTW.


----------



## chicolom

derbigpr said:


> So....I've bought a Logitech G430 headset.
> 
> Now to the star of the show.  The USB soundcard.  I have no clue what it does, how it does it, but* this thing walks all over my Asus Xonar Essence ST* soundcard. This thing can be worth 15-20 dollars most, but the surround sound, the feeling of space, the imaging, the depth of space around you, and the fact it does not significantly change the tonality of the sound when surround sound is enabled, is just amazing.  Quite simply put, * this is the best surround sound I've ever heard on headphones.*


 
  
 Ummm....The G430 uses Dolby Headphone...sooo...
  
  

  
  
  


derbigpr said:


> Another thing, when you enable the dolby on Asus, it changes the sound. It changes tonality, for the worse. The Logitech drivers do it for better. *Human voices actually sound MORE realistic with the surround enabled*. It actually feels like a person is standing in front of you.  The behind surround channel are amazing.  You know the dolby headphone video on youtube with the match stick box shaking around you? You know that feeling of the sound coming directly behind you and then it goes down and back up? This is what this Logitech sound card does to EVERYTHING. It just makes it sound real, not different, doesn't change tonality too much, don't add loads of echo or boom like most surround sound effects do, it just takes the flat, boring sounds, and arranges them in a very precise virtual space around you. AND, it actually works with music, because it improves it. I was listening to some DSP jazz albums on the HD202's, and it sounds amazing.* The resolution of the sound goes up, detail goes up,* imaging is over the top, feeling of space insane, you can almost touch the instruments.
> 
> Honestly, I would pay 100$ for the Logitech USB soundcard alone, because it beats any other soundcard or surround sound in headphones I've ever tried before.


 
  
  
 A DSP that increases resolution, detail, and makes things sound more natural and real + better imaging and soundstage?  No offense, but it sounds a little hard to believe.  Especially if it's using Dolby Headphone - _like it says it is._
  
 That matchbox video is a binaural recording BTW, not dolby heapdhone or any other DSP.


----------



## Bakuryu

evshrug said:


> On a scale of competitive —well rounded —"Fun", which you can look at as detailed and bass lean — well-rounded — colored sound with exaggerated bass and perhaps a V-shaped freq response, the AD700 is definitely in the competitive side of the scale, and FWIR the Samson/Superlux (though the headband is similar) is on the opposite side of "Fun" headphone. They both have fans, they're just different headphones, and tend to make different things stand out more. Both fare better than average walmart crap.
> Eh, I think the Koss KSC75 I have is a little colored, a bit of extra bass but also sharp treble, so while you don't get a natural sense of soundstage, you do get good positional image and "which way?" directionality. 8 or 8.5 for me, competitive score. Dunno what I'd give the other headphone.
> 
> Keep in mind pads have a big effect on sound, with velours you may get decreased bass but also more diffuse imaging. Personally, I really like velours too.
> ...


 
  
 I really do want to get the AD700, I may have found them closer to my budget at $110, but going over budget also messes up the fact that I need a mic. That's why the The Samson/Superlux would have been great since it fits by budget even better. So are these two headphones the same thing?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-HD668B-Dynamic-Semi-Open-Headphones/dp/B003JOETX8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1385953994&sr=8-4&keywords=Superlux
  
 http://www.amazon.com/SR850-Professional-Studio-Reference-Headphones/dp/B002LBSEQS
  
 I still haven't gotten a straight answer as to whether my "sound box" is a good enough piece of hardware to even take advantage of any of these headphone.
  
 This is what I am using
http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=29-180-006&Tpk=encore%20electronics%207.1%20audio%20box
  
 So if not the AD700 or those other ones then maybe the sennheiser 558 modded would be good?
  
 Lastly what DX mic are you referring to?


----------



## chicolom

bakuryu said:


> I really do want to get the AD700, I may have found them closer to my budget at $110, but going over budget also messes up the fact that I need a mic. That's why the The Samson/Superlux would have been great since it fits by budget even better. So are these two headphones the same thing?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-HD668B-Dynamic-Semi-Open-Headphones/dp/B003JOETX8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1385953994&sr=8-4&keywords=Superlux
> 
> ...


 
  
 The reason the AD700 have gone up in price is because they're discontinued.  They used to be always available for ~$95, but now that they're discontinued they've shot up in price making them not so great a deal anymore.  They have been replaced by the AD700*x.*
  
 HD558's are good.  If that's all over your budget, you can try the Samson SR850 (yes, they're the same as the superlux 668), or the Takstar Hi2050.  The Takstar has to ship from China though.
  
 I have no idea what that "sound box" is.  It says it can pass Dolby Digital out through the optical in the back, so - _in theory_ - you might be able plus a Ear Force DSS 1 into it and get surround.  Or just buy a Asus U3 + an amp.
  
 The deal extreme mic (DX) is on the first post under "external microphones".
 http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080


----------



## Bakuryu

chicolom said:


> The reason the AD700 have gone up in price is because they're discontinued.  They used to be always available for ~$95, but now that they're discontinued they've shot up in price making them not so great a deal anymore.  They have been replaced by the AD700*x.*


 
   
 Which I would have assume (The AD700x) would be the same thing or better, but according to people on here they are not. I really wish they weren't discontinued or had a true same priced successor.
  
 Quote:


chicolom said:


> HD558's are good.  If that's all over your budget, you can try the Samson SR850 (yes, they're the same as the superlux 668), or the Takstar Hi2050.  The Takstar has to ship from China though.


 
  
 the HD558's can max my budget by buying it use for about $104ish and with the mic option you show later I wont mind that so long as I don't need anything else which comes into question in the next part of this post. Which of these options require an amp (AD700, HD558, Samson SR850/Superlux/Takstar)?
  


chicolom said:


> I have no idea what that "sound box" is.  It says it can pass Dolby Digital out through the optical in the back, so - _in theory_ - you might be able plus a Ear Force DSS 1 into it and get surround.  Or just buy a Asus U3 + an amp.


 
   
 I have an an Ear Force DSS 1 ( I believe its a 1 it came with my Turtle Beach PX21's) and was actually my setup, which I mentioned on one of my first few posts. I had an optical cord going from the Ear Force DSS 1 to the optical port on the "sound box" that connected to my computer. How do I test if that was a good setup or not? Kinda hard now without a good set of headphones.
  

  


chicolom said:


> The deal extreme mic (DX) is on the first post under "external microphones".
> http://dx.com/p/mini-clip-on-microphone-7080


 
   
 Ah I must have missed that my b. So yea that definite fits a budget lol.


----------



## chicolom

> Originally Posted by *Bakuryu* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> Which I would have assume (The AD700x) would be the same thing or better, but according to people on here they are not. I really wish they weren't discontinued or had a true same priced successor.
> ...


----------



## SoberPanda

I've been using my ATH-AD700X for gaming the last few months, but the cable appears to be broken in one area. I'd really rather prefer to just buy a new headphone rather than to pay someone to repair it (I don't trust myself), and I've been looking at either another pair of the AD700X's or the HD598s. I want some opinions on which headphone to get, for gaming. I'll listen to music every now and then but gaming is the main priority.


----------



## PurpleAngel

soberpanda said:


> I've been using my ATH-AD700X for gaming the last few months, but the cable appears to be broken in one area. I'd really rather prefer to just buy a new headphone rather than to pay someone to repair it (I don't trust myself), and I've been looking at either another pair of the AD700X's or the HD598s. I want some opinions on which headphone to get, for gaming. I'll listen to music every now and then but gaming is the main priority.


 
 I think the HD558 is a better value ($128.50).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Shouldn't the AD700(X) be closer to $60-85?
  
 At $100 or more, it's already overpriced and facing too much competition in that price range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700s were always hovering around $100 for me. The AD700x is $129.


----------



## pervysage

Finally got around to doing the DIY Xbox One headset adapter mod.
  
 Got it working without any soldering. Just cut the wire off an old 360 headset and cut the wire from the Xbone headset. Both wires are identical (if you use the offical 360 headset that came with your old xbox) so it's easy to match up the colors and connect them together.
  
 The official adapter might give better quality sound, but this will do just fine until the adapter finally comes out next year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For those who need a chat cable for the Mixamp 5.8. Axel?

http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=/ID=15447/SID=94998073/productdetails.html

edit: Just noticed... it's a foreign site...

In any case, PS4 chat functions are seriously stupid. And counter intuitive.


----------



## conquerator2

Yay, ordered the Sony MDR-MA900. They were discounted for 150 USD, incl. TAX and shipping... that was something I simply couldn't turn down :]
  
 Now that I've sold my open rig [the HE-6 and associated equipment] I am trying to keep a minimalist approach :]
 The W1000X are pretty good but I feel like the MA-900 will make a good complement as the W1000X are slightly bass heavy and I wanna have a neutral can too, where the MA900 seems to fit the bill.
  
 I was contemplating the X1 too, but I am not sure I want a completely bass heavy headphone as I really like the mids and am kinda into sound-whoring and V-shaped cans tend to turn me off...
  
 Still I'll consider the Phillips but there was no such deal on these, though 320USD incl. TAX is still pretty good but... they ain't going anywhere 
  
 Looking forward to the MA-900. Hope they'll be as good as I think :]
 I just hope the vocals and highs are not recessed 
 I really hope the soundstage is big. I really miss the openness the HE-6 gave :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The vocals are forward, the highs are subdued, so they may disappoint you, as they're pretty smooth up top.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> The vocals are forward, the highs are subdued, so they may disappoint you, as they're pretty smooth up top.


 
 Thanks, yeah. I'll see today but 150 USD is a steal :]
 How'd they compare to the X1? There is no comparison up there I've found.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because they're opposites in presentation. The X1 is bass oriented with a slight tilt in treble at 10khz. The MA900 is midbass/mids oriented, with rolled off sub bass and downward sloped treble.

I don't like comparing two headphones with very different presentations. Apples to oranges.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> That's because they're opposites in presentation. The X1 is bass oriented with a slight tilt in treble at 10khz. The MA900 is midbass/mids oriented, with rolled off sub bass and downward sloped treble.
> 
> I don't like comparing two headphones with very different presentations. Apples to oranges.


 
 I know but it's hard to decide 
 I might consider the X1 too...
 I really dunno right now... I'll get the MA900 first and will see... But the X1 does seem tempting :]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For gaming, I feel the MA900 has plenty, plenty of bass. As I said in my review, the MA900 can actually be considered a bassy headphone, since it's midbass IS the most prominent aspect of it's sound, which is basically on the level with the mids, if just a hair tipped upwards in midbass. 

Sub bass is amazing and I'd love for more headphones to have it, but as you all may know, games/and devs in general, don't tend to put much information down in the sub bass levels. This is why I personally don't feel the MA900 is lacking in bass in general. Explosions and all sound incredible on the MA900. Because the MA900 is soooooo linear between the mid bass up to treble, where is slopes down... you get a lot of detail where most details are found....the mids. All you miss is the last hint of treble sparkle and more or less the stuff that grates your ears is reigned back. This is why I also don't see the MA900 as lacking in treble. It's a pleasant sound signature with plenty of detail for it's price, with a general, all around tone that won't aggravate the vast majority of consumers.

As always, ear placement is incredibly vital for the MA900. That means you better put it with the ear dead center, or you'll be altering it's sound signature by quite a bit. The further back you put the headphones, the less bass you will get.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> For gaming, I feel the MA900 has plenty, plenty of bass. As I said in my review, the MA900 can actually be considered a bassy headphone, since it's midbass IS the most prominent aspect of it's sound, which is basically on the level with the mids, if just a hair tipped upwards in midbass.
> 
> Sub bass is amazing and I'd love for more headphones to have it, but as you all may know, games/and devs in general, don't tend to put much information down in the sub bass levels. This is why I personally don't feel the MA900 is lacking in bass in general. Explosions and all sound incredible on the MA900. Because the MA900 is soooooo linear between the mid bass up to treble, where is slopes down... you get a lot of detail where most details are found....the mids. All you miss is the last hint of treble sparkle and more or less the stuff that grates your ears is reigned back. This is why I also don't see the MA900 as lacking in treble. It's a pleasant sound signature with plenty of detail for it's price, with a general, all around tone that won't aggravate the vast majority of consumers.
> 
> As always, ear placement is incredibly vital for the MA900. That means you better put it with the ear dead center, or you'll be altering it's sound signature by quite a bit. The further back you put the headphones, the less bass you will get.


 
 OK, thanks MLE.
 Appreciate it!
  
 How are they with music btw?


----------



## Bakuryu

chicolom said:


> What have you read saying they're different?  FWIR they sound pretty similar.
> 
> *A post here seems to shy away from the A700xs, but they refer the to closed set vs the open. It seems the open ones are farther from my budget then the closed.*
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> The AD700s were always hovering around $100 for me. The AD700x is $129.


 
  
 Where do you see them for $100?
  
 Edit: NM I just found them for very close to that. I'm just worried now that I might be selling myself short if I am not all about playing competitively. When I do play CS I am very competitive, but I play other games to. I want something that has some immersion to it to. I need a little bit of column a and a little bit of column b for under/around $100


----------



## SpartanG087

Hey everyone. New member here. Great thread and so far really helpful. Can't stress that enough. I have more of a specific question that was asked before, but couldn't find an answer for it. I currently use Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium sound card on my PC and recently purchased the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition. Should I get a desktop amp? and if so any strong recommendations? Thanks guys.


----------



## chicolom

bakuryu said:


> A post here seems to shy away from the *A700xs*, but they refer the to closed set vs the open. It seems the open ones are farther from my budget then the closed.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/684067/is-the-ath-a700x-as-good-as-ath-ad700-for-gaming


 
  
 Yeah, that's the A700x.  I never mentioned that headphone. I was talking about the A*D*700x.  With audio technicas "D" usually = open.
  
*A700* = closed.  Discontinued and replaced by *A700x*.
*AD700* = open.  Discontinued and replaced by *AD700x*.
  
  


bakuryu said:


> I'm just worried now that I might be selling myself short if I am not all about playing competitively. When I do play CS I am very competitive, but I play other games to. I want something that has some immersion to it to. I need a little bit of column a and a little bit of column b for under/around $100


 
  
  
 AD700(x) would NOT be my first choice for immersive single player gaming. Something like the HD558 would offer a better balance between the two, while the AD700 is tilted _all _to the competitve side.


----------



## PurpleAngel

spartang087 said:


> Hey everyone. New member here. Great thread and so far really helpful. Can't stress that enough. I have more of a specific question that was asked before, but couldn't find an answer for it. I currently use Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium sound card on my PC and recently purchased the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition. Should I get a desktop amp? and if so any strong recommendations? Thanks guys.


 
 Titanium (non-HD) or Titanium-HD?
 Did you disable your motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS
  
 I would guess the Bravo Ocean ($120) tube headphone amplifier would be a good choice (guessing).
http://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Audio-Ocean-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00A2QKSVI
  
 Read this thread, see what others are using to drive their AKG K702.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition


----------



## SpartanG087

purpleangel said:


> Titanium (non-HD) or Titanium-HD?
> Did you disable your motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS
> 
> I would guess the Bravo Ocean ($120) tube headphone amplifier would be a good choice (guessing).
> ...


 
 HD and yes the mobo on-board audio is disabled. Thanks for the links!
  
 I guess my only really question is if i really need it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> OK, thanks MLE.
> Appreciate it!
> 
> How are they with music btw?




I love them. As far as an all rounder for all purposes and genres, I like the MA900 the most up until the MD and Annie price range.

The imaging and soundstage are a thing to hear for yourself. The vocal presence is natural and organic sounding, though admittedly not on the level of the 650 and Annies, though that's to be expected considering they cost half or less.


----------



## SaLX

@Spartan - yes, an amp is definitely required for AKG's; especially so as your card doesn't have a proper headphone amplifier. Connect it to the lineouts/(or rca outs?) and you're good to go. Get a Magni or O2.


----------



## SpartanG087

salx said:


> @Spartan - yes, an amp is definitely required for AKG's; especially so as your card doesn't have a proper headphone amplifier.


 
 Thanks for being direct. Any suggestions?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> For those who need a chat cable for the Mixamp 5.8. Axel?
> 
> http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=/ID=15447/SID=94998073/productdetails.html
> 
> ...


 
  
 I sold off my 5.8 not too long ago. I don't currently do any kind of console gaming. I sold my PS3 and Xbox 360 keeping a PS2 and 3DS. I'm pretty much only gaming on PC now. Maybe down the road I'll pick up a PS4, but we'll see when that time comes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought it was you who needed one. My baaad. ;p


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I thought it was you who needed one. My baaad. ;p


 
  
 It's all good. I'm getting my "console fix" by being a creepy stalker and watching while you play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. Sorry about not really broadcasting lately.

I just bought an ethernet cable, to see if my connection on the PS4 will get better. Right now, it's downright horrible, when I get around 20-25mbps on my laptop, while my PS4 gets 9 or less, sometimes like 2-3mbps.
*
BTW GUYS Razordog has the HE-400 with free velours for $299. One heck of a deal.*


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I love them. As far as an all rounder for all purposes and genres, I like the MA900 the most up until the MD and Annie price range.
> 
> The imaging and soundstage are a thing to hear for yourself. The vocal presence is natural and organic sounding, though admittedly not on the level of the 650 and Annies, though that's to be expected considering they cost half or less.


 
 And you are right... They are really good. I am once again reminded why open headphones sound better than the closed headphones... Because they are open!
 Anyway I am really liking the sound so far. Very balanced, no severe highs roll-off perceived. Great open sound for a reasonable price.
 That said, the W1000X are still great in terms of what closed headphones can do but... yeah, the MA900 at 150 USD sound about the same as the W1000X at 500 USD to my ears, which is kinda sad :/
 Now I just need to order the Fidelio X1.. I just have to 
  
 Meanwhile I'll be thoroughly enjoying the MA900 at home and W1000X on the go....
 The one thing I need to get used to is my ears touching the drivers on the MA900s. It is a bit uncomfortable right now but I'll get used to it.
  
 I ordered this cable for the X1 to replace the stock one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/310126281263?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
  
 Seems OK, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It looks a bit chunky, but I honestly can't say. I think you'll be fine though.

Glad to hear you're liking them. The word needs to spread on the MA900.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha. Sorry about not really broadcasting lately.
> 
> I just bought an ethernet cable, to see if my connection on the PS4 will get better. Right now, it's downright horrible, when I get around 20-25mbps on my laptop, while my PS4 gets 9 or less, sometimes like 2-3mbps.
> 
> *BTW GUYS Razordog has the HE-400 with free velours for $299. One heck of a deal.*


 
  
 It's manageable from a playback standpoint. Not crystal clear but it works. I wonder how the streaming impacts your gameplay. It's taking a chunk of the upload bandwidth, so I'd expect it to impact the game at least slightly. When it comes to console gaming I personally feel you're doing it wrong if you're playing over wifi. I had everything hardwired. My laptop only plays games over wifi because I have a 900 mb/s router, and the lowest I'd recommend is 300 mb/s if you have to use wireless (and the console can support it). While you obviously won't be using all 300, the capacity helps greatly with latency and response; especially if you have anything else running on the network too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My router has gigabit ports, and i think my wifi is one of those 700 mb/s, though it's been awhile...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> *My router has gigabit ports*, and i think my wifi is one of those 700 mb/s, though it's been awhile...


 
  
 This. Every bit this.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My wifi is 300 mb/s.  

Looks like I definitely need to run that 20ft cord when I play online...

But ironically, I was almost always host on the PS3 when I played BLOPS...

It has been laggy as of late. And I think my router is crapping out... either that or my phone's wifi antenna... since it is losing connection everywhere I go. Actually, I think that is my phone for sure.


----------



## davisman

Hardwired is the way to go. Im spoiled in that I have 2 internet connections at my apt. We get a pretty good internet connection as part of our rent. When I moved in they setup everything, but then two days later another guy shows up and gives me a 2nd modem. I played it smart and didnt say anything, so now I have 2 connections. Both are 20mb down and 2 up, I use one for gaming only, and the other for the rest of everything.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> My wifi is 300 mb/s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Ow :/ Yeah, internet is usually crap when you need it least.
 But hey, at least the MA-900 is still great and the X1 is ordered ^_^
  
 Good luck with the @net, my net sucks balls... You be happy with your speed, I am stuck at 8D/3U...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My up has never been over 2. Usually 1.5. But my down tends to be between 10-26. 15 today.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> My up has never been over 2. Usually 1.5. But my down tends to be between 10-26. 15 today.


 
 I am really thankful for this guide MLE. I'd be missing out on some hidden gems without it,,, I would never get the MA900 [or hipefully I'll be able to say the same about the X1 ] as I wouldn't even know it existed....
 It'd be a shame though... I really am enjoying the MA900 immensely right now.
 W1000X is the portable can only for now... Though it has quite a good soundstage width for a closed headphone I'd give it that [it rivals the MA900 in width] the balance is off, however


----------



## Bakuryu

chicolom said:


> Yeah, that's the A700x.  I never mentioned that headphone. I was talking about the A*D*700x.  With audio technicas "D" usually = open.
> 
> *A700* = closed.  Discontinued and replaced by *A700x*.
> *AD700* = open.  Discontinued and replaced by *AD700x*.
> ...


 
  
 I might have to go with the Sennheiser HD 558 then. A little worried about buying them used though. Also what should I do about getting surround sound since the current setup doesn't light up the DB light? Do I need a different USB device sound card thing (sorry that sounds really stupid, but I'm really ignorant to this side of computers).

 Edit: according to Turtle Beachs website a lot of games don't use DD
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/support/entry/830516976/
  
 Edit 2: I just tested the headset setup again this time going into the settings and testing the Dolby Digit output it had and the DSS switch to DD for that time. What does this mean?


----------



## martin vegas

bakuryu said:


> I might have to go with the Sennheiser HD 558 then. A little worried about buying them used though. Also what should I do about getting surround sound since the current setup doesn't light up the DB light? Do I need a different USB device sound card thing (sorry that sounds really stupid, but I'm really ignorant to this side of computers).



You can get these for less, if you don't want to buy a used 558! Sennheiser HD 439 Headphones on Amazon for $74.99


----------



## daleb

So, I just ordered the Xonar U3 sound card! Surround sound, here I come!
  
 ...Though, my headphones broke, so I don't know what I'm going to do about that.


----------



## conquerator2

MA-900 is stupidly good... I really, really like it. Sigh, if only my ears weren't so big. The comfort is OK but sqozen against the drivers all the time, they ain't all that happy.
Still under 300 USD it's a no brainer. Even If these were double their price, I'd still say they deliver.
Great balance, bass can punch in all direction If the song wants it. Midrange is awesome, highs are smooth but extended enough for me. Soundstage & separation is great.
Really impressed with these, honestly!


----------



## AxelCloris

daleb said:


> ...Though, my headphones broke, so I don't know what I'm going to do about that.


 
  
 Welp, your hands are tied. It's time for an upgrade. I mean if you have to buy new ones may as well invest and make them quality ones, right?


----------



## benjaminbenjami

got the plyr 1 in, couple of questions

 hooked up the optical and usb and then changed audio on PS4 to optical and dolby 5.1, but audio is still coming through TV? also the "mic" plug doesn't fit the DS4?? thanks in advance


----------



## daleb

axelcloris said:


> Welp, your hands are tied. It's time for an upgrade. I mean if you have to buy new ones may as well invest and make them quality ones, right?


 

 Aha, sadly, I don't think college students are allowed to spend money on things, especially considering I just bought the Oculus Rift 2 months ago. Hopefully I can convince Sennheiser to repair them even though they didn't get them in the mail until after the last day of my warranty.
  
 Whenever I do buy a high end headphone, though, I'm getting me some HD 600s. Those things are the greatest.


----------



## SoberPanda

Has anyone tried both the HD558 and the HD598 for gaming? If so, could you comment on their differences and if they're minor or large? Is the difference worth ~$60 more?


----------



## PurpleAngel

soberpanda said:


> Has anyone tried both the HD558 and the HD598 for gaming? If so, could you comment on their differences and if they're minor or large? Is the difference worth ~$60 more?


 

 The HD558 and HD598 use the same drivers, I'm guessing just the cup designs are slightly different.
 Inside the HD558 cups, there is some black rubber tape that covers about 40% of the holes, removing the tape makes the HD558 more open.


----------



## Wetworks

soberpanda said:


> Has anyone tried both the HD558 and the HD598 for gaming? If so, could you comment on their differences and if they're minor or large? Is the difference worth ~$60 more?


 
  
 I have a similar question.
  
 I want a good gaming headset for competitive  / single player with  a little music on the side.  I have a Sound Blaster Z.
  
 Some headphones I'm considering,
  
 Sen HD 558 $128
 Sen HD 598 $184
*Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro-250* $150 (I'm concerned that my sound blaster Z won't be able to drive these to loud enough volume)
 Sony MA900 $200
  
 I'd prefer not to spend $200 but would consider if it would really be worth it in the end.


----------



## PurpleAngel

wetworks said:


> I have a similar question.
> I want a good gaming headset for competitive  / single player with  a little music on the side.  I have a Sound Blaster Z.
> Some headphones I'm considering,
> Sen HD 558 $128
> ...


 
 Everything I read about the MA900s seems to make them worth the extra few dollars.


----------



## kman1211

wetworks said:


> I have a similar question.
> 
> I want a good gaming headset for competitive  / single player with  a little music on the side.  I have a Sound Blaster Z.
> 
> ...


 

 The DT 990 isn't that hard to drive in terms of loudness, but they benefit greatly from an amp, especially tubes, the midrange is sucked out and they sound a bit boring without a tube amp. The other three are good options as they are quite easy to drive.


----------



## SoberPanda

Would an Astro Mixamp 5.8 do a decent job of driving either the HD598 or HD558s? Also, my budget is around $200 or so, so if anyone has any more suggestions for headphones in that price range, please list them!


----------



## chicolom

soberpanda said:


> Would an Astro Mixamp 5.8 do a decent job of driving either the HD598 or HD558s? Also, my budget is around $200 or so, so if anyone has any more suggestions for headphones in that price range, please list them!


 
  
 Yes.  The HD5x8 aren't that hard to drive so the mixamp will be OK for them.
  
 Other headphones in that price range to consider are the Sony MA900, K612 Pro, Audio Technica AD900x, or a used Q701 (amazon's got some for ~170 atm).


----------



## kman1211

soberpanda said:


> Would an Astro Mixamp 5.8 do a decent job of driving either the HD598 or HD558s? Also, my budget is around $200 or so, so if anyone has any more suggestions for headphones in that price range, please list them!


 

 They are quite easy to drive. The AKG K612 Pro and Sony MDR-MA900 are a couple more to consider in the $200 range.


----------



## hicks12

Hi mad lust, have just read through your OP and must say I appreciate the detail and effort you put in, however may I ask for some advice?

Currently have been using my AD700s for a few years and want a change as I feel they're too analytical and really not "fun" think the bass side is partly the reason for it so I have been looking for a replacement, games I tend to play are RPGs with FPS like battlefield 4 so yes I would still like similar competitiveness but I am happy to sacrafice a bit for a more enjoyable sound. 

The Sony MA900s can't really see them at legitimate sellers for a good price so realistically the price is £200, the other headphone is the Phillips X1 which I can get anywhere for £230, price between them is nothing to me and I expect to use it for a very long time, so excluding price for this what one would you side towards? I can't really decide between them haha.

Appreciate any help on this! Thanks


----------



## SaLX

Ma900's @ 130 fat one's: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-MDRMA900-AE-Home-Headphones/dp/B007I1QXX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386061502&sr=8-1&keywords=ma900 A steal - do it.
  
 The Philips X1's have ramped up in price globally it would appear adding an extra £45 on the price. Damn.. was hoping to buy them soon.. perhaps after the New Year. The increasingly strong price of the GBP versus the Dollar means you can pick up a few bargains if your canny from abroad (see below).
  
 If you want to spend a bit more, then the overwhelming thumbs up on this thread would be for the AKG K712 Pro (new, cheaper and possibly better than the K702/65's MLE has banged on about) from razordogaudio in the USA. http://stores.ebay.co.uk/RazorDogAudio?_trksid=p2047675.l2563. Fingers crossed the greasy dutywhore won't catch the package and slap tax on it; I've got a few choice things slip through from the States that way. The HiFiMAN HE-500's from the same store were much cheaper last week alas, but they've perhaps not got the greatest for soundstage for gaming as you'll have read here on this thread.
  
 Oh.. and use this (maybe use Tor with scripts off if you want?) http://www.dutycalculator.com/


----------



## Totoori

Hi there,
  
 I'm looking for extremely comfortable gaming headphones for $150-$300. Preferably something on for a good deal currently or that's regularly on sale that I can look out for. I would rather have closed but they all seem to be 'terrible' compared to the open counterparts for what I would want them for, so I have decided to deal with open.
  
 In terms of what I want: Comfort > Gaming > Music. 
  
 I've read the thread and am still not sure what I should be buying. Sonya MA900 seem to fit what I want the most. The lowest I can find them (I'm in Canada, but US prices seem infinitely better) is $205 from Amazon. I don't really like the look of these, though, as the thin part that goes around your head looks flimsy to me.
  
 What should I be picking up? Are there any that I should be looking for that might be on sale?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I caved in and with the last of my gift card money for selling some games on Amazon, I bought a new Mixamp 5.8 *(I can't believe these are still around)*, Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable (through Turtle Beach, and works with the 5.8 coincidentally), and an RX battery pack on Ebay (through Bill me Later).
Sick of running wires all over the place...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

totoori said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I'm looking for extremely comfortable gaming headphones for $150-$300. Preferably something on for a good deal currently or that's regularly on sale that I can look out for. I would rather have closed but they all seem to be 'terrible' compared to the open counterparts for what I would want them for, so I have decided to deal with open.
> 
> ...




MA900, X1 are in your price range. The MA900's comfort is hit or miss as your ears will sit on the drivers, which may be an issue, though I say it just takes getting used to, then it becomes one of the most comfortable headphones ever. The X1 is super comfy, but the pads can be itchy for some people, and generate quite a bit of heat. You can also spring for some updated K702s on Amazon which no longer have bumps for around $278, but those require some good power behind them and raises price accordingly. They're pretty stellar for comfort too.


----------



## Totoori

mad lust envy said:


> MA900, X1 are in your price range. The MA900's comfort is hit or miss as your ears will sit on the drivers, which may be an issue. The X1 is super comfy, but the pads can be itchy for some people. You can also spring for some updated K702s on Amazon which no longer have bumps for around $278, but those require some good power behind them and raises price accordingly. They're pretty stellar for comfort too.


 
 Thanks.
  
 I like the look of the X1's and would like to grab those, unfortunately I haven't seen them on sale yet. What are some good prices for those three I should keep an eye out for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The new K702, I haven't seen lower than that price yet. Also be wary of buying from 3rd party (Emusic seems to be blacklisted, so don't buy it from their Amazon listing).

X1 has gone down to around $250, but it's been a long while. The MA900 has generally been around $190-200.


----------



## Totoori

Thanks! I think out of all of these I'm going to grab the MA900s since they're the cheapest. I'd rather have the X1's but they seem to be $100 more. For the 702 review, do I just look at the 701 from you? 

 What about if I was to go down to a $150~ price, which would you choose?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, look at the Q701. The K701 I reviewed was the older model, which seems to have sounded a little different than the more recent K70x models. The Q701 sells for like 60 dollars cheaper, but the headband bumps make them a bit uncomfortable.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> MA900, X1 are in your price range. The MA900's comfort is hit or miss as your ears will sit on the drivers, which may be an issue, though I say it just takes getting used to, then it becomes one of the most comfortable headphones ever. The X1 is super comfy, but the pads can be itchy for some people, and generate quite a bit of heat. You can also spring for some updated K702s on Amazon which no longer have bumps for around $278, but those require some good power behind them and raises price accordingly. They're pretty stellar for comfort too.


 
 Yes, this ^
 Comfort is always hit or miss 
 All AKGs require some sort of external amping to sound good so keep that in mind :]
 While, in my experience, the MA900s [and X1s] sound good practically off anything.
 So, choose accordingly + use the MLE's reviews :]


----------



## Totoori

Thanks!
  
 I just had an eye-opening thought. I have the extra funds and I use these things up to 20 hours a day. If I was to raise my budget to $400 as an average user would I notice a difference in sound quality and comfort?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm so mad at myself.

I sold my Mixamp 5.8 to fund for a Mixamp Pro, and now I went ahead and went back to the Mixamp 5.8 anyway. Lost money just to reacquire everything. :rolleyes:

I'll probably put my Mixamp pro for sale for like $75 total.


----------



## chicolom

totoori said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I like the look of the X1's and would like to grab those, unfortunately I haven't seen them on sale yet. What are some good prices for those three I should keep an eye out for?


 
  
  
MA900:
 With the MA900s *$190 new* is the usual going rate.
 The MA900s have gone for about $*155 used*_._.
  
X1:
 The X1 had some very low prices a while back for ~$250 and lower.  It has since gone back up to *~$300 new*, but it's still worth it at that price, as it beats many competiting mid-fi phones._   _
 You can get it used for less though - about* $250 used and below*.  For a long time the X1 was only available in the US for $400 + imported shipping.
  
K702:
 The K702s just got a minor refresh with the new headband and AKG seems to have taken the SKU change as a chance to raise the price again.  Traditionally the went for about 250 though. 
  
 If you don't mind the headband bumps (or are willing to mod them with a pad) the Q701s are a better deal going *new for ~$230* and *used for ~$180!  *Also, I don't know what the latest K702 sounds like, but I easily preferred the Q701 to the K702 when I compared them.
  
  
 Also, camelcamelcamel.com is your friend.


----------



## chicolom

totoori said:


> I just had an eye-opening thought. I have the extra funds and* I use these things up to 20 hours a day*. If I was to raise my budget to $400 as an average user would I notice a difference in sound quality and comfort?


 
  
 What??  You sleep for 4 hours then wear headphones 20 hours straight?  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			







  
  



mad lust envy said:


> I'm so mad at myself.
> 
> I sold my Mixamp 5.8 to fund for a Mixamp Pro, and now I went ahead and went back to the Mixamp 5.8 anyway. Lost money just to reacquire everything.


 
  
 I think the mixamp 5.8 is a nice piece of gear to hang onto just because of the damn convience of having wireless when you need it.  I don't really plan on selling mine because there are a few times when I need that feature.


----------



## Totoori

Up to 20 hours =) I spend most of my time on my PC. And yes, I don't sleep much!
  
 My point is, I shouldn't be limiting myself to $200~ when I have extra funds and use them so much =)


----------



## conquerator2

totoori said:


>


 
  
 There aren't as many choices in that price range as you think 
 Most of those require amplification too, except for the Denons, but the new line is kinda meh...


----------



## threei

Can the mixamp pro 2013 drive the dt990 pro 250 if I don't use chat?


----------



## conquerator2

threei said:


> Can the mixamp pro 2013 drive the dt990 pro 250 if I don't use chat?


 
 It can drive them but not to their full potential IMO. Just so-so...


----------



## Bakuryu

bakuryu said:


> I might have to go with the Sennheiser HD 558 then. A little worried about buying them used though. Also what should I do about getting surround sound since the current setup doesn't light up the DB light? Do I need a different USB device sound card thing (sorry that sounds really stupid, but I'm really ignorant to this side of computers).
> 
> 
> Edit: according to Turtle Beachs website a lot of games don't use DD
> ...




I feel like I'm very close to finally making a purchase so I could really use these last pieces of advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

threei said:


> Can the mixamp pro 2013 drive the dt990 pro 250 if I don't use chat?




Think about it. 250ohm and higher headphones were made for full size receivers. Look at the Mixamp. It's barely an amp as is.

So if you wanna utilize them to their properly performance level, you need something with power behind it. There are various small amps that have been made to break the mold, but the Mixamp is not one of them.

Can the Mixamp drive it loudly without voice chat? Yes. Is it straining to supply them with enough power? Yes. You're basically running the Mixamp at full capacity just to squeeze them to drive the 990s loudly, and it's not even proper power.

People want to spend $200 on headphones that they won't even utilize properly. For that, you may as well spend the extra $100 for the Fidelio X1 which sounds better AND can be driven well off the Mixamp. At least you're getting more of your money's worth. A fully driven 990 (meaning spending at least an extra $100 to power them properly) doesn't even sound as good as a Fidelio X1 ran off a weak source.

I'm not aiming this at you. I'm generalizing. People throw their money away on a good headphone, that they hook up to weak power. It's a waste.


----------



## threei

Thanks for the feedback, and the fantastic guide you've put together Mad Lust.
  
  The dt990 pro are $150 which is at the top of my budget, so I can't really afford an amp to go with them. Looking for good bass, a decent sound stage, and velour pads, there aren't that many options. I could give up the velour and go with the CALs which are under my budget or save up some and get the X1's.


----------



## Chubtoad

OK, this will probably sound fairly newb, but how exactly does the 5.8 mixamp work? I wouldn't mind a more wireless solution but I assume there will still have to be some wires no?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chub:

Console - optical out - Mixamp 5.8's transmitter unit.

receiver unit is next to you, you plug in your headphones to that.

For voice chat, a cable goes from the receiver unit to the controller of the ps4/360 (not sure on XB1).

As for ps3, you need special cable that Astro no longer sells. It goes from the PS3's usb port, to a special 3.5mm input on the transmitter. I believe you can contact Astro support and ask for them to sell you one.

The receiver unit (RX unit) is pretty small and you keep next to you, or close enough to plug your headphones to.

Both the Tx unit and Rx unit have usb for charging, and you can buy a battery pack for the RX unit, or use batteries. Only the battery pack will charge with the usb plugged in. Not sure if the one I got on ebay will function like the official battery pack Astro doesn't sell anymore.


----------



## Wetworks

I need to get a Christmas gift for a good buddy of mine, I'm thinking of a good gaming headset preferably for under $100?
  
 Some options I'm mulling over,
  
 Creative Aurvana Live! $75
 Skullcandy SLYR          $80
 Siberia V2                   $65
  
 What would you get someone for under $100 for pc gaming and movies?


----------



## Totoori

A mic is required for me but I'd like to get a clipon as the headset options seem bad.
  
 Will all the headphones (specifically the ones I inquired about recently: X1, K702, MA900) work with a clip-on mic or something similar? Is it going to hurt my comfort or be awkward?


----------



## mikemav

How do nice AV receivers do at driving headphones? For instance I have AKG Annies which I love, connected to my Marantz SR5005 receiver with Dolby Headphone. Anyone have a feel (given the AKGs are known as hard to drive "to potential"), if I'd benefit much from double-amping the receiver headphone output with a headphone amp in the $100-200 range? Just don't know how much power a receiver like that puts out in comparison to dedicated headphone amps?
  
 Also to complicate things, how much does it impact things to use a Y-splitter to send the headphone output to two locations? Reason I ask is, given the AKG has easily detachable cable, and I have two (coiled and straight), and was thinking of splitting the headphone signal coming out of the receiver (and amp, if I get one) to drive signals to a remote room as well and plug in the headphones there for occasional use. I know if the signal is extended (especially longer distances, such as with custom longer cable, or some kind of 1/8" stereo balun or transmitter/receiver to run long distances over Cat-5, for example) that must degrade the strength of the signal and therefore the sound. Would amping the output with something like a Magni, Vali (or O2) help especially if I have a Y-splitter on the output jack? Or does a good AV receiver like the Marantz already have similar power output on the headphone jack?


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Think about it. 250ohm and higher headphones were made for full size receivers. Look at the Mixamp. It's barely an amp as is.
> 
> So if you wanna utilize them to their properly performance level, you need something with power behind it. There are various small amps that have been made to break the mold, but the Mixamp is not one of them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I remember reading a Head-Fi guide somewhere that made a point of *budgeting for the entire system, not just the headphone.*
  
 I always kept that in mind, and that's what made higher-end headphone systems well beyond my means...albeit not too far beyond that I couldn't acquaint myself with Stax for a while.
  
 Having to keep this in mind is what makes recommending headphones to people difficult for me. They keep asking for sub-$100 headphones, and the ones I'd frequently recommend tend to run more in the $150-200 range (MA900)...if not the $750-850 range (vintage Stax Lambda + SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or SRM-T1). There's this big price jump that happens when you really need to start budgeting for an amp that'll work well.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, so, um...
I'm playing ghosts, switching between K712 and Q701. And, ah, I can't tell a difference.


----------



## Wetworks

I went ahead and ordered my friend a Creative Aurvana, he uses a laptop with no sound card so this should be plenty for his gaming needs.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Ok, so, um...
> I'm playing ghosts, switching between K712 and Q701. And, ah, I can't tell a difference.


 
 I am getting myself a dragonfly dac and akg550's for Christmas..K550's supposed to sound a bit like the Q701 what I have read..should be good match with the dragonfly!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I am getting myself a dragonfly dac and akg550's for Christmas..K550's supposed to sound a bit like the Q701 what I have read..should be good match with the dragonfly!


 
  
 I was severely let down by the K550 when I heard them. Hopefully they're what you're looking for, but they certainly aren't for me. They sounded completely dead and lifeless. And I loved my Q701. I personally wouldn't say they sound anything alike. The Q701 has personality. The K550 has the charisma of a stump.


----------



## SaLX

namelesspfg said:


> I remember reading a Head-Fi guide somewhere that made a point of *budgeting for the entire system, not just the headphone.*


 
 What's the general rule of thumb/price ratio if you were to buy a complete system: say if you had $500 would you get $300 HP's and the rest on your DAC/AMP? That would _seem_ to be about right, but I've never really pinned it down whilst I've been on these forums.


----------



## conquerator2

I wonder how the Shure SRH1540 fares? I know it's new and all and I've never owned a Shure before but I am really curios if it is good or not


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> I wonder how the Shure SRH1540 fares? I know it's new and all and I've never owned a Shure before but I am really curios if it is good or not


 
   
 Change has said a few things in this thread about the 1540. Here's one excerpt.
  
 Quote:


change is good said:


> For now, I can say the 1540 extends much lower than the [MrSpeakers Mad Dogs] and has a slightly wider soundstage. It's midrange and treble, though not recessed, is more linear but isn't overshadowed by the bass. Man... that bass, though!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> I was severely let down by the K550 when I heard them. Hopefully they're what you're looking for, but they certainly aren't for me. They sounded completely dead and lifeless. And I loved my Q701. I personally wouldn't say they sound anything alike. The Q701 has personality. The K550 has the charisma of a stump.


 
 Supposed to sound good with the dragonfly mate!


----------



## AxelCloris

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Console/dp/B00CMQTVUA/
  
 Xbox One in stock at Amazon.


----------



## daleb

axelcloris said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Console/dp/B00CMQTVUA/
> 
> Xbox One in stock at Amazon.


 

 You are mentioning a console that you can't plug headphones into in the headphone gaming guide. Why do you torture us in this way? ;_;


----------



## AxelCloris

daleb said:


> You are mentioning a console that you can't plug headphones into in the headphone gaming guide. Why do you torture us in this way? ;_;


 
  
 There's a mod to get them to work. So you totally could get it and use those new fancy cans you're gonna buy to replace the broken ones. 
  
 I went to college. I still afforded the toys I wanted somehow.


----------



## hicks12

Hi again.
Would just like to say thanks mad lust for the amazing reviews I finally made my decision, gone for the Sony MNA as some kind soul pointed out the 130 quid Amazon seller which seems legit . Maybe when I fancy a change in years to come I'll look at getting the x1 or its successors (if their devision still running). Does look like an amazing headphone but struggled to agree on setting another 100 quid down lol.

Again appreciate the reviews as it makes it so much easier for newbs like me that appreciate audio quality but don't know where to really start .

Will let you know my findings when they arrive! If their sound doesn't suit Mr though I will certainly grab the x1 next haha


----------



## conquerator2

hicks12 said:


> Hi again.
> Would just like to say thanks mad lust for the amazing reviews I finally made my decision, gone for the Sony MNA as some kind soul pointed out the 130 quid Amazon seller which seems legit . Maybe when I fancy a change in years to come I'll look at getting the x1 or its successors (if their devision still running). Does look like an amazing headphone but struggled to agree on setting another 100 quid down lol.
> 
> Again appreciate the reviews as it makes it so much easier for newbs like me that appreciate audio quality but don't know where to really start .
> ...




MA900 is an amazing, awesome and excellent headphone I am sure you'll love it ^_^
It sure caught me off guard!
I should have the X1 arriving in a week or so... So I'll give my impression there too x)


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> What's the general rule of thumb/price ratio if you were to buy a complete system: say if you had $500 would you get $300 HP's and the rest on your DAC/AMP? That would _seem_ to be about right, but I've never really pinned it down whilst I've been on these forums.


 
  
 No ratio was given. I think it varies depending on the components in question.
  
 For dynamic/ortho amps, you're probably going to spend less on them than the headphones themselves, which is the sensible thing to do. The headphones themselves are what determine most of the sound signature you get, and the amp itself should ideally be a "wire with gain", only amplifying the signal and not inherently changing its signature, letting the headphone drivers sound as intended.
  
 For electrostatics...this is where it gets weird, because if you're willing to buy a speaker amp (vintage integrated receivers work nicely for this purpose) for use with the cheap transformer boxes, that will get you started, albeit ruling out non-Normal bias (230V) sets with most of those transformer boxes. Given how cheap old receivers tend to be, relatively speaking, you might spend less than the headphones themselves.
  
 But if you're going for a dedicated amp, a typical SRM-1/Mk2 Pro or SRM-T1 is going to be MORE expensive than a typical vintage SR-Lambda/Lambda Pro on the used market (we're talking about $350-650 for amp vs. $200-350 for headphones), and it's not unheard of for people to drive the SR-007 with the Blue Hawaii SE, an amp that was over TWICE as expensive during its production run ($1,600-2,500 for SR-007 + $5,000+ for BHSE).


----------



## AxelCloris

Anyone able to speak to the positional audio queues in Assassin's Creed 4? I picked it up today with Amazon's special and I'll be playing it at some point over the next couple days. Wondering how it does considering it's third person and all that.


----------



## Bakuryu

So I think I'm going to go with the Sennheiser HD 558 Headphones. The only thing I need to figure out now is how to hook them up. I have a Ear Force DSS (1) and a USB sound "box" that can accept optical. The problem is I can't get it to light the DD light on the Ear Force unless I go into the settings -> supported formats -> select Dolby digital and hit test. Then the light goes on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats because Dolby Digital is what you're supposed to be using. And the 558 will suit you well. Certainly would be my choice if I couldn't afford the MA900.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> Thats because Dolby Digital is what you're supposed to be using. And the 558 will suit you well. Certainly would be my choice if I couldn't afford the MA900.


 
  
 The question is will the light go on when I plug the 558s in. The light never lit with my Turtle Beach PX21's which I would have though would do it. The Turtle Beach website states
  


> If you're trying to play surround sound from your PC to your headset and you're only getting Pro Logic II (not Dolby Digital) make sure that you are not trying to get Dolby Digital transmission from PC games. Most PC games use "multichannel LPCM" encoding for their soundtracks (*L*inear *P*ulse *C*ode *M*odulation), not Dolby Digital encode/decode. Older (pre-2009) PC games do not include Dolby Digital Live processing to convert their LPCM audio to Dolby Digital inside the game, so only PCM (stereo) audio data will be sent through the PC sound card's S/PDIF Out (optical digital output).


 
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/support/entry/830516976/
  
 So how whats the deal?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

baku, what are you plugging your DSS to? If the DSS is getting a Dolby Digital signal, there is no way it isn't doing proper Dolby headphone (the light should be on).

If you're gaming on PC... your PC has to have an optical out that is capable of sending a olby Digital signal. For example, my Alienware laptop has an optical out, but it ONLY does 2 channel pcm, no Dolby. In order for me to get Dolby from my PC, I have to use my Xonar U3 external soundcard. It does Dolby Headphone OR it can send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal if you really wanna use the DSS.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> I am getting myself a dragonfly dac and akg550's for Christmas..K550's supposed to sound a bit like the Q701 what I have read..should be good match with the dragonfly!



It's amazing, you replied to my post, and yet it seems like "Q701" was the only part you read. Meh. I did hear that the Dragonfly was superb, and I have heard that the K550 don't sound much like the Q701, different soundstage and less natural tone. I like having one closed headphone and one great open headphone, less overlap, though to be honest I always reach for the open headphone if I can.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Anyone able to speak to the positional audio queues in Assassin's Creed 4? I picked it up today with Amazon's special and I'll be playing it at some point over the next couple days. Wondering how it does considering it's third person and all that.



I recently went back to play the first Assassin's Creed. Its really easy to pick up with headphones when you're near a particular type of engagement such as rescue a civilian (Altaiir may have eagle vision, but I have bat ears), and positional audio may give you more immersive environment and a better sense of which side of a building to drop down from, but overall it's not a huge deal to have surround.

Also, I've just received a comment (from russia?) on my FiiO E12 youtube video... Apparently, my left finger is amazing. I guess all I can say to that is thank you? Nothing too special about my fingers, I thought, lol!


----------



## catspaw

Hmm,
 Question: If I use an external DAC (Like bifrost or similar), do i lose dolby headphone capabilities?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If on consoles, yes, you will lose virtual surround. Your Mixamp or equivalent device IS a dac and amp. If you try putting an audiophile dac first, they'll convert everything to standard stereo.

If on PC, yes, UNLESS your soundcard has an option to send your dac an already converted Dolby headphone signal through the optical out. The Xonar U3 does it (cheapest), and I assume the Xonar DG (which is what internal equivalent to the U3) does this. Since I don't have, nor am I knowledgeable about soundcards in general, I can't say which do/don't have that option. I assume all the Xonars with Dolby Headphone will.

Not sure on Creative's soundcards or other offerings.

Also, as far as the U3, this signal is capped at 16bit/48khz, IIRC. Might be 24/48, I'll have to check. So I'd still use your audiophile dac with a better source signal when listening to music, if you care about 24/96 or higher.


----------



## Naingolann

I'm in the market for a new hp that is going to complement my DT990, and it'll be either the Sony MA900 or the AKG 612 Pro. I've heard that the latter is supposedly even better than Sony, but I couldn't find much on the internet. D:

Is there anyone here who had the chance to hear both?


----------



## conquerator2

naingolann said:


> I'm in the market for a new hp that is going to complement my DT990, and it'll be either the Sony MA900 or the AKG 612 Pro. I've heard that the latter is supposedly even better than Sony, but I couldn't find much on the internet. D:
> 
> Is there anyone here who had the chance to hear both?


 
 Did not hear the K612, can recommend the MA-900 as a great balanced can.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> It's amazing, you replied to my post, and yet it seems like "Q701" was the only part you read. Meh. I did hear that the Dragonfly was superb, and I have heard that the K550 don't sound much like the Q701, different soundstage and less natural tone. I like having one closed headphone and one great open headphone, less overlap, though to be honest I always reach for the open headphone if I can.


 
 Both on offer in my local hifi store.they are just for browsing the web listening to stuff like this..http://soundcloud.com/guidosloungecafe/guidos-lounge-cafe-broadcast-089I thought I would get myself a bargain for Christmas for under $400!


----------



## SoberPanda

I've narrowed my choices down to the MA900 and the HD598. Which do you guys recommend?


----------



## kman1211

naingolann said:


> I'm in the market for a new hp that is going to complement my DT990, and it'll be either the Sony MA900 or the AKG 612 Pro. I've heard that the latter is supposedly even better than Sony, but I couldn't find much on the internet. D:
> 
> Is there anyone here who had the chance to hear both?


 

 I own both. Overall I find the K612 the better sounding of the two. Both are good headphones and the sound signature is different , but overall I find the K612 the more balanced and refined sounding of the two. But like most AKGs it can be a bit difficult to find the right synergy for them as they are quite picky.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> baku, what are you plugging your DSS to? If the DSS is getting a Dolby Digital signal, there is no way it isn't doing proper Dolby headphone (the light should be on).
> 
> If you're gaming on PC... your PC has to have an optical out that is capable of sending a olby Digital signal. For example, my Alienware laptop has an optical out, but it ONLY does 2 channel pcm, no Dolby. In order for me to get Dolby from my PC, I have to use my Xonar U3 external soundcard. It does Dolby Headphone OR it can send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal if you really wanna use the DSS.




I'm using this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3KX16D4582

I have an optical cord going from that to the DSS annd from the DSS a 3.5mm to the headset.

is that external sound card my weak link?


----------



## Hoffen00

Got my NFB-15.32 today and it sounds awesome with USB and music and with optical input. But does the soundcard do anything ? Because when I jump between 2 channel and 8 channel nothing changes aswell when i enable or disable dolby headphone option theres no change compared to before I used the NFB-15.32, am i doing anything wrong  or is it supposed to be like this ?
 I have SPDIF out box checked and  PCM
  
 And thanks to everyone that helped me pick out a headphone + amp/dac before =)


----------



## Totoori

Hi there,
  
 Sorry to post again, but I am still a little lost!
  
 These will primarily be used for gaming but also music and other needs. They wont leave my PC desk so they don't have to be mobile. My needs are: comfort > gaming > music. Someone asked what type of music I listened to as a reference, here it is.
  
 My decision seems to be Philips X1 vs Sony MA900 vs AKG 701/702.
  
 MA900 is currently winning as it's $100~ less than the X1s. I don't like what they look like, though. The X1's seem to never go on sale which is hurting them for me. The AKG's have multiple versions right now: 702s, 702 anniversary and 701 QJ. I don`t think I'd notice that much of a difference getting into higher end pairs like the anniversary edition though, so those are probably out too. A big problem with the AKGs is that Amazon doesn't seem to let me order them from Canada. I can order the rest, but none of the AKGs ship to Canada. Are there other places that ship to Canada I should be looking out for? I don't mind waiting until Christmas for a pair, so I'm fine waiting for a sale on any of these.
  
 Either way I'm sure I'll be more than happy with all of these for my needs, so I guess the best action is to just wait for one to go on sale and make the purchase?
  
 Finally, what else will I be wanting/needing to pick up with these headphones? Will I need a soundcard (My MoBo is ASUS Maximus VI Hero which apparently has pretty decent sound)? Will I need an amp? If so, any recommendations? Is this a long-lasting purchase that I will be able to use for years?
  
 Thanks and apologies for posting so many questions. This is a big purchase and I've never had more than $29 plantronics from Future Shop. Also, I don't really have a strict budget, so if something like the Anniversary AKGs are really worth it for what I need I'll gladly shell it out.


----------



## kman1211

totoori said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Sorry to post again, but I am still a little lost!
> 
> ...


 

 Well the AKG K701/2 needs an amp to sound their best, I wouldn't suggest them unless your willing to buy an amp. The MA900 doesn't need an amp but like most headphones would benefit from one. I don't think the X1 needs an amp either. The Anniversary's aren't really worth it imo, they are not really necessarily better than the Q701 and the K712 is cheaper and a bit better(found it slightly more refined) than the Anniversaries. If you want a sound somewhat similar to the Annies without sacrificing much if any refinement, the K612 is a much cheaper option.


----------



## SaLX

hoffen00 said:


> Got my NFB-15.32 today and it sounds awesome with USB and music and with optical input. But does the soundcard do anything ? Because when I jump between 2 channel and 8 channel nothing changes aswell when i enable or disable dolby headphone option theres no change compared to before I used the NFB-15.32, am i doing anything wrong  or is it supposed to be like this ?
> I have SPDIF out box checked and  PCM
> 
> And thanks to everyone that helped me pick out a headphone + amp/dac before =)


 
 If I'm reading this right you're using a Xonar. In your windows sound control panel you should have your soundcard selected (speakers by default) not SPDIF. I think this is a common mistake and hopefully this works. What headphones are you using with the Audio-GD Hoff?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also make sure the sound devices option for the Xonar/configure speakers is set to 7.1.


----------



## Hoffen00

salx said:


> If I'm reading this right you're using a Xonar. In your windows sound control panel you should have your soundcard selected (speakers by default) not SPDIF. I think this is a common mistake and hopefully this works. What headphones are you using with the Audio-GD Hoff?


 
 Yea that seems to have been the problem thanks man. I got a AKG K702 headphones and a Xonar DGX soundcard.


----------



## Hoffen00

mad lust envy said:


> Also make sure the sound devices option for the Xonar/configure speakers is set to 7.1.


 
 Is that meant for me?  The only option with 7.1 i have in the xonar audio center is "7.1 virtual speaker shifter" is that it or something else ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

soberpanda said:


> I've narrowed my choices down to the MA900 and the HD598. Which do you guys recommend?


 

 I own the HD558.
 I would say to get the Sony MA900, reviewers really seem to like it's bass and every else about it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> Got my NFB-15.32 today and it sounds awesome with USB and music and with optical input. But does the sound card do anything ? Because when I jump between 2 channel and 8 channel nothing changes aswell when I enable or disable Dolby Headphone option there's no change compared to before I used the NFB-15.32, am i doing anything wrong  or is it supposed to be like this ?
> I have SPDIF out box checked and  PCM
> 
> And thanks to everyone that helped me pick out a headphone + amp/dac before =)


 
 Are you feed it a 2-channel music sound or 5.1 movie audio or gaming or other ?
 What sound card are you using?


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> Is that meant for me?  The only option with 7.1 i have in the Xonar audio center is "7.1 virtual speaker shifter" is that it or something else ?


 
 Is the Audio Channel set to 8-channel (7.1)?


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> Anyone able to speak to the positional audio queues in Assassin's Creed 4? I picked it up today with Amazon's special and I'll be playing it at some point over the next couple days. Wondering how it does considering it's third person and all that.


 
  
 The PC version sounds alright in that regard, at least.
  
 Got it as part of the NVIDIA holiday game bundle, wouldn't have bought it otherwise seeing as I have no experience with the rest of the series. Ubisoft needs to offer some kind of massive series bundle at a deep discount.
  


totoori said:


> Finally, what else will I be wanting/needing to pick up with these headphones? Will I need a soundcard (My MoBo is ASUS Maximus VI Hero which apparently has pretty decent sound)? Will I need an amp? If so, any recommendations? Is this a long-lasting purchase that I will be able to use for years?


 
  
 The Maximus VI Hero's Realtek drivers don't have any headphone surround tech at all, neither from Dolby nor Creative. You'd have to opt for Razer Surround, which isn't the greatest for positional audio in my experience.
  
 In other words, get a sound card. Any decent one should last you for a few years; and a cheap one like an X-Fi Titanium or Xonar DGX is all you need to get started.
  
 As for amplification, that depends on what headphones you choose in the end. I can safely say that the MA900 doesn't demand a dedicated amp like some cans will, and that's part of the appeal to me right there.


----------



## SaLX

@Hoffen - yeah sweet that you got it working. If it's working then you WILL have set your soundcard to 7.1 in the windows sound CP as MLE suggested. Note: the new SBZ range automatically sets this up for new users - which can also be a pain in the **** too.
  
 Any chance of any feedback on how the NFB sounds with your K702's - a lot of people keep asking this... and I'm soon about to 'pull the trigger' (sound's like a cry for help)  on the Sabre 11.32 or the 2x Wolfson 15.32 with the K712's. Consensus is to go for the Wolfsons. *Edit* I know the vanilla 702's will sound more neutral, but tonally both must be the same.. almost.


----------



## grizzlybeast

If @Mad Lust Envy can get his hands on a JVC DX1000/700 that would make a great gaming headphone to add to the list. 
  
 dx700=Nice impactful bass, nonfatiguing listen, great details, AMAZING IMAGING and instrument separation, AWESOME soundstage for a closed headphone and bests the x1 *easily.* The treble is still detailed though over all its a dark sounding headphone.
  
 It is everything I wanted the x1 to be. If I buy the one I am borrowing I wouldn't mind loaning it out.


----------



## Hoffen00

purpleangel said:


> Are you feed it a 2-channel music sound or 5.1 movie audio or gaming or other ?
> What sound card are you using?


 
 right now in the xonar DGX audio center i use 8 channels, PCM 96 khz, headphones analog out with gaming mode, SPDIF out -PCM enabled  dolby headphones enabled with option DH-2 and GX enabled.  I use the optical input on the NFB with H gain and 4/3 on the other options. But i have a box in the xonar DGX audio center saying "7.1 virtual speaker shifter" should i enabled that for gaming ?


----------



## Hoffen00

salx said:


> @Hoffen - yeah sweet that you got it working. If it's working then you WILL have set your soundcard to 7.1 in the windows sound CP as MLE suggested. Note: the new SBZ range automatically sets this up for new users - which can also be a pain in the **** too.
> 
> Any chance of any feedback on how the NFB sounds with your K702's - a lot of people keep asking this... and I'm soon about to 'pull the trigger' (sound's like a cry for help)  on the Sabre 11.32 or the 2x Wolfson 15.32 with the K712's. Consensus is to go for the Wolfsons. *Edit* I know the vanilla 702's will sound more neutral, but tonally both must be the same.. almost.


 
 Yea it works now thanks again. How do i enabled the 7.1 ? Configure speakers option and then choose 7.1  surround and then have everything enabled ? or should i enable it aswell in the xonar audio center "7.1 virtual speaker shifter" ?
 And im new to the part with useing headphones instead of headsets and useing a amp/dac, so this is the first time so i have nothing to compare it to. Only thing i can say is that it sounds really good, but i would proly have said the same about other headphones and amp/dacs


----------



## Naingolann

kman1211 said:


> I own both. Overall I find the K612 the better sounding of the two. Both are good headphones and the sound signature is different , but overall I find the K612 the more balanced and refined sounding of the two. But like most AKGs it can be a bit difficult to find the right synergy for them as they are quite picky.


 
  
 Thanks. I have a FiiO E9 and love it's versatility, because I can use it with either my PC or my PS3 with no problem whatsoever and it does a great job at driving the DT990 600ohm. It should be good enough, but what else would you suggest?
  
 Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> The PC version sounds alright in that regard, at least.
> 
> Got it as part of the NVIDIA holiday game bundle, wouldn't have bought it otherwise seeing as I have no experience with the rest of the series. Ubisoft needs to offer some kind of massive series bundle at a deep discount.


 
   
PS3 here and it works flawlessly. I can distinctly hear where a sound comes from and it's exceptionally useful during naval fights!


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> If @Mad Lust Envy can get his hands on a JVC DX1000/700 that would make a great gaming headphone to add to the list.
> 
> dx700=Nice impactful bass, nonfatiguing listen, great details, AMAZING IMAGING and instrument separation, AWESOME soundstage for a closed headphone and bests the x1 *easily.* The treble is still detailed though over all its a dark sounding headphone.
> 
> It is everything I wanted the x1 to be. If I buy the one I am borrowing I wouldn't mind loaning it out.


 
 Somehow I don't believe that... If it's anything like the DX1000, then the midrange will be recessed and the signature U shaped....
 Even if it was better, it's $650 and the DX1000 is $1099... that's notwhere near the X1 price, is it?


----------



## PurpleAngel

hoffen00 said:


> right now in the xonar DGX audio center i use 8 channels, PCM 96 khz, headphones analog out with gaming mode, SPDIF out -PCM enabled  dolby headphones enabled with option DH-2 and GX enabled.  I use the optical input on the NFB with H gain and 4/3 on the other options. But i have a box in the xonar DGX audio center saying "7.1 virtual speaker shifter" should i enabled that for gaming ?


 

 I leave in disabled, never use it.


----------



## kman1211

naingolann said:


> Thanks. I have a FiiO E9 and love it's versatility, because I can use it with either my PC or my PS3 with no problem whatsoever and it does a great job at driving the DT990 600ohm. It should be good enough, but what else would you suggest?
> 
> Quote:
> 
> PS3 here and it works flawlessly. I can distinctly hear where a sound comes from and it's exceptionally useful during naval fights!


 

 I don't think driving the K612 will be a problem. I haven't heard the E9 before so I don't know how the headphone reacts to the amp. It's just a matter of trying them and seeing if they suit your tastes or not.


----------



## AvroArrow

totoori said:


> Hi there,
> 
> Sorry to post again, but I am still a little lost!
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would not get the Philips X1 because of the non-removable/replaceable earpads.  I read another thread on head-fi where a guy with some Philips L1 (also fixed earpads) pleather ripped after 1 year (so no more warranty).  He called up Philips and even offered to pay them to fix it but they said too bad, so sad, we can't fix it and you are out of warranty, kthxbb.  Yeah... I would not buy a $300USD pair of headphones with that kind of support.  This is doubly more so since you're in Canada, and chances are, you'd probably have to send them to the US for warranty if something came up... and possibly be taxed again when they crossed the border again if they don't mark the CN22 form properly and depending on if you get screwed by an inattentive CBSA agent.  
  
 Too bad you missed the amazon.ca $140-150 CAD BF deals on the Sennheiser HD598s.  I feel those would be a possible contender at that sale price.  You also mentioned comfort as a requirement.  Do you have a big head and/or wear glasses?  I have both so it's hard to find comfortable headphones that don't clamp like a vice grip (e.g. Senneiser HD650s hurt a lot).  I can confirm the AKG K702.65 Annies, K550, Sennheiser HD598s, Audio Technica ATH-AD700s are very, very comfortable for me.  I can easily wear the Annies and HD598s for 2-6 hours with no discomfort.  On the flip side, I HATED the Q701s for comfort.  The bumpy headband plus the hard foam earpads made them very uncomfortable.  The Annies (& K712Pro) have a flat headband and much softer memory foam earpads that feel very nice.  The problem with the AKG K/Q70x is that they REQUIRE an Amp to sound decent.  Realtek onboard sound is totally insufficient for driving the AKGs.  You will get sound if you crank it up... that's about it. I currently run mine off an Audioengine D1 and sometimes a Fiio E17.  They may not be the best amp for the AKGs, but they were within my budget (sub-$150).  
  
 Razordogaudio will ship to Canada via USPS (so you don't get raped by UPS/FedEx brokerage fees).  I got my Annies from them for $350+$29.50 USD shipping to Vancouver during a sale back in August.  They had the K712Pro for $375+shipping for their BF sale.  Maybe they'll have another sale closer to Xmas, but the K712Pro+amp may be out of your budget.


----------



## Totoori

Thanks Avro! I will not grab the X1's then. While I like the KCG's, requiring an amp and being another $150~ on top of that is rather expensive and might be better once I know more about what I want in headphones.
  
 Yes, I have glasses and a somewhat big head, not too big though.
  
 I think my best bet is to just suck up the appearance and pick up MA900s eh? Best deal I can find on them is US Amazon @200.


----------



## Murder Mike

salx said:


> Any chance of any feedback on how the NFB sounds with your K702's - a lot of people keep asking this... and I'm soon about to 'pull the trigger' (sound's like a cry for help)  on the Sabre 11.32 or the 2x Wolfson 15.32 with the K712's. Consensus is to go for the Wolfsons. *Edit* I know the vanilla 702's will sound more neutral, but tonally both must be the same.. almost.


 
  
 I really like the analytical sound of the 11.32 with the K702 65ths. I love the detail that comes through.


----------



## SaLX

Ty MM: The 11.32 isn't too dry overall, bright in the highs and restrains the bass too much (if I may ask)?


----------



## grizzlybeast

conquerator2 said:


> Somehow I don't believe that... If it's anything like the DX1000, then the midrange will be recessed and the signature U shaped....
> Even if it was better, it's $650 and the DX1000 is $1099... that's notwhere near the X1 price, is it?


 
 dx700 is 530 at amazon. But the dx700 midrange isn't recessed. With the x1 comparatively speaking the x1 midrange is more distant as well as everything else besides the bass.. The dx700 does everything...besides air and the x1 having a slightly more transparent sound... better. Better details, better and stronger textured bass, better soundstage width, better soundstage height and depth, better instrument separation, stronger midrange, similar treble, more natural instruments, better timbre, way more cohesive and musical... yeah thats almost everything. I have had both and really liked the x1 but it's no match for the dx700.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> baku, what are you plugging your DSS to? If the DSS is getting a Dolby Digital signal, there is no way it isn't doing proper Dolby headphone (the light should be on).
> 
> If you're gaming on PC... your PC has to have an optical out that is capable of sending a olby Digital signal. For example, my Alienware laptop has an optical out, but it ONLY does 2 channel pcm, no Dolby. In order for me to get Dolby from my PC, I have to use my Xonar U3 external soundcard. It does Dolby Headphone OR it can send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal if you really wanna use the DSS.


 
  
 Rereplying because mine got lost in the last few posts.

 I'm using this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3KX16D4582

 I have an optical cord going from that to the DSS annd from the DSS a 3.5mm to the headset.

 is that external sound card my weak link?
  
 Do I need to buy a new usb sound card? What is the DSS considered? Is it an amp? Do I need it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno about that thing, but if you're plugging your DSS into that, I'm willing to bet all my money that the optical out on that thing is limited to 2 channel PCM, which is why you'll never get Dolby from it.


Hoffen: Do people not know how to configure their sound devices?



You can either go to your control panel, and hit sound, or go to that icon on the taskbar.

The little speaker icon on the bottom right of your taskbar. RIGHT CLICK IT, PLAYBACK DEVICES, RIGHT CLICK ON THE DEVICE IN QUESTION, CONFIGURE SPEAKERS, SET TO 7.1, NEXT, NEXT, NEXT, FINISH.

Also, instead of hitting configure speakers, hit properties, advanced, change default format to a higher bitrate/frequency. For the Xonars, you can only go up to 24/48. Any higher is for stereo, it won't work when using 7 channels, higher frequencies.

I'm willing to bet, people never do this with their audiophile dacs, and they're stuck in 16bit/44khz. All this time thinking they're getting 24bit/96khz, when they didn't bother to change the settings.

DON'T TOUCH THE 7.1 VIRTUAL SPEAKER.


----------



## Bakuryu

Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> I dunno about that thing, but if you're plugging your DSS into that, I'm willing to bet all my money that the optical out on that thing is limited to 2 channel PCM, which is why you'll never get Dolby from it.


 
  
 That is the thing I can get Dolby out of it. Like I said if I do this:
  

  
 And press Test the light goes on, but then switches back when the test ends.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the light is obviously not gonna stay on after the test, as you're not playing anything that uses Dolby UNTIL you start a game/movie, etc. If the light is not turning on during games, then you just don't have the right settings in the Windows Control Panel or the game just doesn't support it.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> Well, the light is obviously not gonna stay on after the test, as you're not playing anything that uses Dolby UNTIL you start a game/movie, etc. If the light is not turning on during games, then you just don't have the right settings in the Windows Control Panel or the game just doesn't support it.


 

 So its not suppose to be on all the time? This whole process confuses me really. I'm reading some people say the process of decoding PCM into DD is a decrease in quality. I just want to know how to get the best sound to my soon to be headphones. And if anything I have right now is of use or if I still need to buy more hardware.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some people are probably the same kind of people that would never use virtual surround because it's not uncompressed pcm. PCM = STEREO. You wanna play in stereo? Enjoy your better quality, but lack of surround.

You're also sadly mistaken if you think everything can be set to output in Dolby Digital.

It's not. Things have to be ENCODED in Dolby. Things can't be just slapped on with Dolby with a touch of a button. Like I said, Dolby is encoded into sources like movies, games, etc. It's not something that can be slapped onto to everything you listen to. That is why you don't get the Dolby light.

Even DVDs don't have Dolby on at ALL times. The movie will, but menus or previews may just be in standard PCM/stereo.

Think of it like a TV channel in HD. Some content is HD, some things like commercials may not be.

You can be playing a DVD on your Pc which has Dolby, but your mediaplayer may not have the right settings that allow Dolby Digital to play.

PC has a billion on confusing settings, and if even one is wrong, It can block Dolby Digital from being sent to your Dolby headphone device.

Hardware settings, software settings, software device, etc. All these things have to be right.

This is why PC gaming is a pain in the ass. Even just getting the internal soundcard to do virtual surround, I have to manually adjust settings EVERY SINGLE time I plug in a headphone.

Like I have mentioned time and time before, PC gaming related advice/issues, should be asked in the Nameless guide, which is linked on the first page.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> Some people are probably the same kind of people that would never use virtual surround because it's not uncompressed pcm.
> 
> You're sadly mistaken if you think everything is in Dolby.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So if a PC game isn't encoded for Dolby Digital it wont do it, based on what I am reading most games aren't encoded for DD. So whats the point Ear Force that is supposedly decoding Dolby Digital? Headphones are stereo right? So even if a game has the potential for surround sound it will only ever put out 2.1 sound, unless you do virtual surround sound? Does that sound have to be pushed through optical?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh... yes, headphones are stereo. Dolby headphone takes the DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 signal and converts it into Dolby headphone virtual surround. it's a virtual surround that is TWO CHANNEL. How else do you think a standard STEREO headphone can possibly get virtual surround?

You're really misinformed, misunderstanding, and overthinking it. 

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS MAKE SURE THE DSS IS BEING SENT A DOLBY DIGITAL SIGNAL when you play your games. If you're playing a game, and the light turns on, you're good. If not, then you're out of luck. That device you're using may be downconverting the signal to basic stereo beforeit sends it to the DSS. I don't know, as I don't have it, and I don't know what type of setup and settings you have. Again, ask on the Nameless guide.

Most retail games have Dolby Digital. I haven't played a single one that my Xonar hasn't put proper Dolby headphone to. Some indie games, maybe, but that also happens on consoles.

I've said all I can say to you. I'm just repeating myself now.


----------



## Bakuryu

mad lust envy said:


> Sigh... yes, headphones are stereo. Dolby headphone takes the DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 signal and converts it into Dolby headphone virtual surround. it's a virtual surround that is TWO CHANNEL. However, it is not basic stereo. You're really misinformed, misunderstanding, and overthinking it.
> 
> ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS MAKE SURE THE DSS IS BEING SENT A DOLBY DIGITAL SIGNAL when you play your games. If you're playing a game, and the light turns on, you're good. If not, then you're out of luck. That device you're using may be downconverting the signal to basic stereo beforeit sends it to the DSS. I don't know, as I don't have it, and I don't know what type of setup and settings you have. Again, ask on the Nameless guide.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry for being ignorant. My multiple searches on google have lead me to the same results as far as PC games and DD and I have no one to live chat with so my only source of information is these forums and whatever I find on google. Its easier to find something when you know what your looking for. I think a guide on why head phones are better for different tasks would be more beneficial then just a list of good ones. If someone knew what to look for in headphones they wouldn't ask "is this one good" all the time. Until I learned more about building PCs I had no idea what to look for, but once I did it made finding parts much easier.
  
 I know it sounds petty, but I don't have a lot of money to spend, I'm losing my job soon. I might not even be able to afford to get these yet, but when I do I want to make sure I have the right stuff and how to use it. I always ask questions because I hate assuming, which leads to more trouble then its worth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you're buying some multiple driver headphones, all headphones are essentially the same. You have:

stereo headphones (the overwhelming majority of headphones, which includes in ears, on ears, wireless, noise cancelling, open, closed, etc)
headsets (headphones with microphones)
surround headphones (headphones with multiple speakers in each ear cup, which are much, much worse than a standard pair of headphones)

Assigning eadphones for different tasks is unnecessary. A good headphone will do good in basically any and every task. Your main choice comes down to what benefits you want. 

And I'm not just posting a guide on what headphones are good. I state why they're good, what their strengths are, and what their weaknesses are. Some may have more bass, some may have more treble, etc. I don't know what you're looking for, but you're clearly overthinking it.


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> dx700 is 530 at amazon. But the dx700 midrange isn't recessed. With the x1 comparatively speaking the x1 midrange is more distant as well as everything else besides the bass.. The dx700 does everything...besides air and the x1 having a slightly more transparent sound... better. Better details, better and stronger textured bass, better soundstage width, better soundstage height and depth, better instrument separation, stronger midrange, similar treble, more natural instruments, better timbre, way more cohesive and musical... yeah thats almost everything. I have had both and really liked the x1 but it's no match for the dx700.


 
 Still, my point stands - the DX700 is almost 2x more expensive and it is closed.
 However, it seems to be a really good headphone, I give you that.
 But they would probably need some sort of amplification to sound great, right?


----------



## catspaw

mad lust envy said:


> If on consoles, yes, you will lose virtual surround. Your Mixamp or equivalent device IS a dac and amp. If you try putting an audiophile dac first, they'll convert everything to standard stereo.
> 
> If on PC, yes, UNLESS your soundcard has an option to send your dac an already converted Dolby headphone signal through the optical out. The Xonar U3 does it (cheapest), and I assume the Xonar DG (which is what internal equivalent to the U3) does this. Since I don't have, nor am I knowledgeable about soundcards in general, I can't say which do/don't have that option. I assume all the Xonars with Dolby Headphone will.
> 
> ...


 
 Well, ill drop a few buck on a sound card if I can get dolby headphone to a good DAC . Just need to find the right one. Currently i have creative X-fi Titanium (non-HD version).


----------



## Gdubz

Hey MLE,
  
 Been reading up here a bit and decided to join up on the forums because I had a question (here's my intro thread). I think you said you're rocking the playstation so you don't have to deal with the Xbox One lack of surround via optical, but Microsoft stated that you can still receive a surround signal from their HDMI out. 
  
 I was wondering if you know anything about this 4x1 HDMI switcher and if I could receive surround sound from that optical audio out port, since it will technically receive surround signal from the HDMI cable I connect to it. It states:
  


> * The S/PDIF Optical (Toslink) and Digital Coax audio output formats are based on the HDMI audio output. If any of the sync devices (e.g., HDTV, Projector, etc.) connected to the output can only support stereo audio, then the S/PDIF Optical (Toslink) and Digital Coaxial outputs will be limited to PCM stereo audio.


 
  
 I think that's a "yes" to my question, but I'm still really new to all this madness and it's a lot to take in all at once.
  
 Thanks for any help you, or anyone else in this thread, might be able to give!


----------



## threei

gdubz said:


> but Microsoft stated that you can still receive a surround signal from their HDMI out.


 
 As far as I know the surround output through HDMI is pcm.  Here's a quote from the MS guy:
  
 Penello posted in the thread to cool matters. He said, “Dolby Digital is coming post launch. This was a SW scheduling issue pure and simple, and I know people are disappointed, but we will have it. Anyone with an HDMI receiver should be fine, as we pass the uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 through HDMI as well as DTS.


----------



## texasnightowl

Hey everyone...looking for input. I did post in the help/intro thread initially but my price range is changing and since I'm looking for headphones primarily for gaming I thought I'd pop in over here.
  
 Basically I need headphones for use in my study/gameroom with my PS3 (PS4 sometime next year). I do have the PS3 (and other stuff) running into a Yamaha AVR (RX-V1800) which has Silent Cinema (aka Dolby Headphone).  I'm looking for headphones, not a head set...don't need a mic. For music, I listen to mostly classic rock and country but can be a little bit of everything....Adele, Billy Joes, Bon Jovi, Mat Kearney, Idina Menzel, Tim McGraw, Carrie Underwood, John Mellencamp, The Eagles.
  
 I'm leaning towards open, circumaural. The only caveat to choosing open is that my office is right around a corner from the living room and the TV in that room can be pretty loud (family member with hearing loss). So it's more a question of how much sound will come into my ears as opposed to sound leakage from the headphones.
  
 Budget...under $150 USD...closer to $100 would be even better.
  
 The Yamaha manual has this to say about the headphones jack:


> Headphone Jack Rated Output/Impedance
> CD, etc. (1 kHz, 40 mV, 8 O) ................................ 150 mV/100 O


 
  
 I did also email Yamaha and their response is:


> The headphone output is designed to work with consumer grade headphones, which typically have impedance ratings ranging between 15 and 60 ohms.
> 
> The output will still work with higher and lower impedance ratings, you would just need to adjust the volume control to compensate for the increased or decreased draw.


 
  
 With all that out of the way, some of the cans on my list (all open/semi-open) include:
  
 (low end) AKG K99 or Pioneer SE-A1000
 Yamaha HPH-200
 AKG K240 MKII
 Senn HD 558
 and at the upper end of the range, ATH-AD700x or Beyer DT990 Pro 250.
  
 Any comments on any of these? The sweet spot in my budget would be $100-125 so the AT's and Beyer are above that but I could possibly stretch.
  
 Any others to strongly consider? Or should I be considering closed instead of open? Thanks.


----------



## Gdubz

threei said:


> As far as I know the surround output through HDMI is pcm.  Here's a quote from the MS guy:
> 
> Penello posted in the thread to cool matters. He said, “Dolby Digital is coming post launch. This was a SW scheduling issue pure and simple, and I know people are disappointed, but we will have it. Anyone with an HDMI receiver should be fine, as we pass the uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 through HDMI as well as DTS.


 
 I was under the impression that Microsoft included a workaround to output digital surround via HDMI with some super hidden BETA option... Source


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, Silent Cinema is NOT aka Dolby Headphone. They are two COMPLETELY different virtual surround dsps...

Where and how did someone manage to make up something like this?


----------



## threei

gdubz said:


> I was under the impression that Microsoft included a workaround to output digital surround via HDMI with some super hidden BETA option... Source


 
Support for digital surround sound from your cable or satellite box is currently available as a beta. By default, only stereo sound will be received.
  
  
 That is only for HDMI input. It will take a Dolby Digital signal from your cable/sat box, but it will convert it to pcm and output that through the HDMI.


----------



## Hailin

texasnightowl said:


> Hey everyone...looking for input. I did post in the help/intro thread initially but my price range is changing and since I'm looking for headphones primarily for gaming I thought I'd pop in over here.
> 
> Basically I need headphones for use in my study/gameroom with my PS3 (PS4 sometime next year). I do have the PS3 (and other stuff) running into a Yamaha AVR (RX-V1800) which has Silent Cinema (aka Dolby Headphone).  I'm looking for headphones, not a head set...don't need a mic. For music, I listen to mostly classic rock and country but can be a little bit of everything....Adele, Billy Joes, Bon Jovi, Mat Kearney, Idina Menzel, Tim McGraw, Carrie Underwood, John Mellencamp, The Eagles.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think the DT990pros or AD700 are what you are looking for. Ad700 is bass shy which would mean bass guitars are going to sound boring, lifeless and possibly nonexistent. The DT990pros are lacking midrange because the bass is so thick on it. The DT990/600 would be a better Beyer open option but out of your price range.
  
 You might find a MA900 used. It can be used with any source because of it's built in impedance resistor. But are sooooo open it might be distracting with the other house noise. The Senn 558 are a great option too, you would have to do some research on how they work with rock and country, but if they are almost like a 598 with more bass I would say they would be great. I don't know anything about the other cans listed so I would rather not comment on them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

gdubz said:


> Been reading up here a bit and decided to join up on the forums because I had a question (here's my intro thread). I think you said you're rocking the playstation so you don't have to deal with the Xbox One lack of surround via optical, but Microsoft stated that you can still receive a surround signal from their HDMI out.
> I was wondering if you know anything about this 4x1 HDMI switcher and if I could receive surround sound from that optical audio out port, since it will technically receive surround signal from the HDMI cable I connect to it. It states:
> I think that's a "yes" to my question, but I'm still really new to all this madness and it's a lot to take in all at once.
> Thanks for any help you, or anyone else in this thread, might be able to give!


 
 The only way I know to get Headphone Surround Sound from a gaming console, using HDMI, it to hook the HDMI cable to an A/V receiver, that has headphone surround sound sound and plug the headphones into the A/V receiver, Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha own Headphone surround sound technology. And with receiver you really want to use a headphone with high impedance, like 120-Ohms or higher.


----------



## Gdubz

threei said:


> Support for digital surround sound from your cable or satellite box is currently available as a beta. By default, only stereo sound will be received.
> 
> 
> That is only for HDMI input. It will take a Dolby Digital signal from your cable/sat box, but it will convert it to pcm and output that through the HDMI.


 
 Oh wow, I guess I didn't process that when reading it, or maybe I just wanted it to be true for HDMI Out... FML.
  
 Sorry for the misunderstanding.
  
 I really hope they do something soon. I've never really been spoiled with a good sound stage and positional audio, but I would very much like to be right now.  I guess if I kept gaming on my Xbox 360 until Xbox One released their surround support, I could accomplish this? I believe the Xbox 360's Optical audio delivers digital surround?


----------



## Gdubz

purpleangel said:


> The only way I know to get Headphone Surround Sound from a gaming console, using HDMI, it to hook the HDMI cable to an A/V receiver, that has headphone surround sound sound and plug the headphones into the A/V receiver, Yamaha receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha own Headphone surround sound technology. And with receiver you really want to use a headphone with high impedance, like 120-Ohms or higher.


 
 So not the Sennheiser HD558's that I was looking at purchasing, right? I'm still new to all of this, but I believe the specs on Amazon listed them as only having 50ohms impedance.
  
 Also, is Yamaha's Silent Cinema as good as the Dobly Headphone or should I look for something else with that as an option?


----------



## texasnightowl

mad lust envy said:


> Umm, Silent Cinema is NOT aka Dolby Headphone. They are two COMPLETELY different virtual surround dsps...
> 
> Where and how did someone manage to make up something like this?


 
  
 Maybe a case of .... they're not the same, they're similar?  I was trying to search on Yamaha Silent Cinema when I first started to look for info on headphones to use and I guess my understanding could be wrong but it seemed like Yamaha (along with others) developed their own take on Dolby so they didn't have to pay Dolby fees for it?
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/583075/silent-cinema-yamaha-headphone-thread


----------



## texasnightowl

hailin said:


> I don't think the DT990pros or AD700 are what you are looking for. Ad700 is bass shy which would mean bass guitars are going to sound boring, lifeless and possibly nonexistent. The DT990pros are lacking midrange because the bass is so thick on it. The DT990/600 would be a better Beyer open option but out of your price range.
> 
> You might find a MA900 used. It can be used with any source because of it's built in impedance resistor. But are sooooo open it might be distracting with the other house noise. The Senn 558 are a great option too, you would have to do some research on how they work with rock and country, but if they are almost like a 598 with more bass I would say they would be great. I don't know anything about the other cans listed so I would rather not comment on them.


 
  
  
 Thanks for eval on the DT990's and AD700...I don't want overwhelming bass, but nonexistent isn't any better!  The Senn 558's seem a great option...I found them for $128 last night so right in my target, but....
  


gdubz said:


> So not the Sennheiser HD558's that I was looking at purchasing, right? I'm still new to all of this, but I believe the specs on Amazon listed them as only having 50ohms impedance.
> 
> Also, is Yamaha's Silent Cinema as good as the Dobly Headphone or should I look for something else with that as an option?


 
  
 This wasn't part of my thread but I'm in the same boat...since I'm using a receiver is the 50ohm rating on the Senn's OK? The email I got from Yamaha re: my receiver would indicate it's fine, but @PurpleAngel recommended cans with 120 ohms for receiver use?


----------



## martin vegas

I ended up buying the dacmagic xs with the sennheiser hd 25 2's today..on first listen, it's not bad for the price..haven't listened to it on the 24/192 setting yet..the instructions are a bit basic..i will go on Cambridge audios website and find out more!


----------



## threei

gdubz said:


> Oh wow, I guess I didn't process that when reading it, or maybe I just wanted it to be true for HDMI Out... FML.
> 
> Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> 
> I really hope they do something soon. I've never really been spoiled with a good sound stage and positional audio, but I would very much like to be right now.  I guess if I kept gaming on my Xbox 360 until Xbox One released their surround support, I could accomplish this? I believe the Xbox 360's Optical audio delivers digital surround?


 
 Yes, the 360 outputs dolby digital through optical. You can still get dolby pro logic from the xbox one if you're using a dss or mixamp. I've never used pro logic and I can't imagine its all that good, but probably better than stereo.


----------



## Gdubz

threei said:


> Yes, the 360 outputs dolby digital through optical. You can still get dolby pro logic from the xbox one if you're using a dss or mixamp. I've never used pro logic and I can't imagine its all that good, but probably better than stereo.


 
 Good to know, maybe I'll go ahead and purchase some headphones now then and use them with the 360 until the xbox one supports dolby digital.
  
 Would you still not recommend the Sennheiser HD 558's because of their low (50ohms) impedence? I've got an old Astro mixamp (I think the Mixamp Pro from this guide) but I don't know what it's output is and if it fits within that 1/8th rule.
  
 Would I need to pickup a DAC and Amp? or could I use the Astro Mixamp Pro with the Xbox360 and <insert some headphones here> and get good positional audio and surround sound?


----------



## Murder Mike

salx said:


> Ty MM: The 11.32 isn't too dry overall, bright in the highs and restrains the bass too much (if I may ask)?


 
  
 I don't find it dry at all really. I'd maybe get a few more impressions though. The bass is tight and lively and I don't get any fatigue from the highs.


----------



## NamelessPFG

catspaw said:


> Well, ill drop a few buck on a sound card if I can get dolby headphone to a good DAC . Just need to find the right one. Currently i have creative X-fi Titanium (non-HD version).


 
  
 You have an X-Fi Titanium already?
  
 You can just output a CMSS-3D Headphone-mixed signal to an external DAC with S/PDIF input. Headphone surround accomplished!


----------



## SaLX

murder mike said:


> I don't find it dry at all really. I'd maybe get a few more impressions though. The bass is tight and lively and I don't get any fatigue from the highs.


 
 MM - thanks for replying. They're having a debate over on the K712 pro thread atm re warm or neutral amps http://www.head-fi.org/t/659251/the-akg-k712-pro-support-and-appreciation-thread/2355#post_10038700


----------



## PurpleAngel

gdubz said:


> So not the Sennheiser HD558's that I was looking at purchasing, right? I'm still new to all of this, but I believe the specs on Amazon listed them as only having 50-Ohms impedance.
> 
> Also, is Yamaha's Silent Cinema as good as the Dolby Headphone or should I look for something else with that as an option?


 
 Surprisingly my 50-Ohm HD558 sounds fairly good plugged into my Yamaha RX-V671 A/V receiver.
 So I would assume the Senn HD558 is more accomidating, for use with a receiver's high impedance headphone output.
 I would assume Yamaha's Silent Cinema is a fairly basic headphone surround sound. 
 Silent Cinema works fine for me, watching Blu-rays disks from my Panasonic Blu-ray player which is running HDMI cable to my RX-V671.


----------



## Gdubz

purpleangel said:


> Surprisingly my 50-Ohm HD558 sounds fairly good plugged into my Yamaha RX-V671 A/V receiver.
> So I would assume the Senn HD558 is more acomidating, for use with a receiver's high impedance headphone output.
> I would assume Yamaha's Silent Cinema is a fairly basic headphone surround sound.
> Silent Cinema works fine for me, watching Blu-rays disks from my Panasonic Blu-ray player which is running HDMI cable to my RX-V671.


 
 I think at this point I'll just snag a pair of HD558's and use the Astro Mixamp Pro I currently have with Dolby Headphones turned on and keep gaming Call of Duty on my xbox360 until my Xbox One has digital surround support.
  
 Maybe by then I'll crave some higher end headphones and an amp.


----------



## grizzlybeast

conquerator2 said:


> Still, my point stands - the DX700 is almost 2x more expensive and it is closed.
> However, it seems to be a really good headphone, I give you that.
> But they would probably need some sort of amplification to sound great, right?


 
 Nope not really, These are impressions from a modest focusrite forte. They terminate 1/4 inch but are almost as efficient as the x1. I need to try them with other amps as I expect they will further improve.


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> Nope not really, These are impressions from a modest focusrite forte. They terminate 1/4 inch but are almost as efficient as the x1. I need to try them with other amps as I expect they will further improve.


 
 Any chance to try them on a regular DAP? Something like the Clip +? It drives the MA-900 very well for instance :]
 Thanks.


----------



## grizzlybeast

conquerator2 said:


> Any chance to try them on a regular DAP? Something like the Clip +? It drives the MA-900 very well for instance :]
> Thanks.


 
 I would try but I need a 1/4 inch female to 1/8 inch male adapter. I can tell you that they are very listenable when my focusrite uses the usb power which basically provides no amplification. 
  
 Like the x1 they are genre specific, but a lot less picky with songs than the x1. The bass is a bit much on some songs.


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> I would try but I need a 1/4 inch female to 1/8 inch male adapter. I can tell you that they are very listenable when my focusrite uses the usb power which basically provides no amplification.
> 
> Like the x1 they are genre specific, but a lot less picky with songs than the x1. The bass is a bit much on some songs.


 
 Nah, the opinion kinda varies :] I'll wait to judge for myself tomorrow 
 Meanwhile, if you could test the DX700 on something portable, that'd be appreciated :]


----------



## PurpleAngel

catspaw said:


> Well, ill drop a few buck on a sound card if I can get Dolby headphone to a good DAC . Just need to find the right one. Currently I have Creative X-fi Titanium (non-HD version).


 
 Why not just get a Schiit Magni (or O2) headphone amplifier and plug it into the Titanium?


----------



## grizzlybeast

conquerator2 said:


> *Nah, the opinion kinda varies :]* I'll wait to judge for myself tomorrow
> Meanwhile, if you could test the DX700 on something portable, that'd be appreciated :]


 
 I have to rephrase that genre specific statement. The x1 is more song specific, and the dx700 is more genre specific. But yeah you be the judge of that tomorrow. I will warn you that they still sound closed but have a great soundstage and aren't really clear sounding, yet still very detailed. 
  
 Again I *cant *test them as I said I don't have a 1/4" female to 1/8 inch male adapter and don't plan on buying one because they cost a lot more than the other way around. They def aren't what I would call portable but very efficient for home use.


----------



## PurpleAngel

gdubz said:


> I think at this point I'll just snag a pair of HD558's and use the Astro Mixamp Pro I currently have with Dolby Headphones turned on and keep gaming Call of Duty on my xbox360 until my Xbox One has digital surround support.
> 
> Maybe by then I'll crave some higher end headphones and an amp.


 
 As I've heard that the Xbox One comes with DTS-HD Master audio, I'm guessing your going to see new optical input gaming devices that support DTS headphone surround sound.
 Or made even DTS gaming devices (headsets?) with HDMI input (or pass thru?).


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> I have to rephrase that genre specific statement. The x1 is more song specific, and the dx700 is more genre specific. But yeah you be the judge of that tomorrow. I will warn you that they still sound closed but have a great soundstage and aren't really clear sounding, yet still very detailed.
> 
> Again I *cant *test them as I said I don't have a 1/4" female to 1/8 inch male adapter and don't plan on buying one because they cost a lot more than the other way around. They def aren't what I would call portable but very efficient for home use.


 
 I meant the open X1s :] I won't jump on the DX700 yet as I have bought a week ago the W1000X which are decent.
 I'll be waiting for Xmas with other HPs.
 I am quite satisfied with the MA900/X1 for home and W1000X for outside/portable.
 DX700 is under consideration and so is the SRH1540


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my Mixamp 5.8 and turtle beach ps4 chat cable (works perfectly for the Mixamp 5.8's controller input which goes to the ps4 controller for voice chat). They both work like a charm. My 5.8 was brand new for $125. Chat works better than using the Mixamp pro for some reason. The 5.8's hiss is very minute with the MA900, thank goodness. Not as quiet as the Mixamp 2011, but doesn't even register in my ears as my fan is louder, and even with the fan off, the hiss isn't loud. Actually less than the 2013 Mixamp fwir. 

So happy I have it again. I'll leave the Pro connected to the ps3, and the 5.8 to the ps4.

Now I'm just waiting for the rechargeable battery pack coming from ebay, which arrives next week.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Got my Mixamp 5.8 and turtle beach ps4 chat cable (works perfectly for the Mixamp 5.8's controller input which goes to the ps4 controller for voice chat). They both work like a charm. My 5.8 was brand new for $125. Chat works better than using the Mixamp pro for some reason. The 5.8's hiss is very minute with the MA900, thank goodness. Not as quiet as the Mixamp 2011, but doesn't even register in my ears as my fan is louder, and even with the fan off, the hiss isn't loud. Actually less than the 2013 Mixamp fwir.
> 
> So happy I have it again. I'll leave the Pro connected to the ps3, and the 5.8 to the ps4.
> 
> Now I'm just waiting for the rechargeable battery pack coming from ebay, which arrives next week.


 
 Hmm the DSS II [Turtle Beach PX5's receiver anyway] has no hiss with the MA-900, not at the volume you'd listen at. Very quiet hiss kicks in way past any listening levels.
 I am inclined to believe it is quite decent then, OK amp section and DAC I guess...
 So that it's out there in case it was available :]


----------



## Evshrug

naingolann said:


> I'm in the market for a new hp that is going to complement my DT990, and it'll be either the Sony MA900 or the AKG 612 Pro. I've heard that the latter is supposedly even better than Sony, but I couldn't find much on the internet. D:
> 
> Is there anyone here who had the chance to hear both?



There was one guy who wrote a nice comprehensive review comparing them... kman1191 I think, he already replied to you and I suggest you look up his review. Personally, I heard and liked the MA900 quite a bit, agree with Mad's review it's a great all-rounder with top-tier soundstage imaging, but it had a sort of veil that (without decreasing detail) seemed to make the listener take a few steps back from the action... Just not as involving for me as my AKGs. What I read about the K612 had me interested in a possible bargain blend of the Q701 and K712, though I haven't heard it I'm keen.




bakuryu said:


> Its easier to find something when you know what your looking for.
> *Very true.*
> I think a guide on why headphones are better for different tasks would be more beneficial then just a list of good ones. If someone knew what to look for in headphones they wouldn't ask "is this one good" all the time.
> *Think about what you just said... The guide is a list of good headphones. People ask "Is this one good" all the time. How do those not match purposes?
> ...



Basically, almost all the headphones listed in the guide are winners. You could pick any one in your budget that seems like it would be good, and it will be. No wrong answer, good resale value too. I know very well what it's like not to have much money, in fact so does MLE, so that's why we're pointing out that these are good ones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Conquer, I'm justvtalking about hiss, because the Mixamp 5.8 is the only wireless mixamp out, and it's never been a quiet amp. Just saying even with the super sensitive MA900, the hiss is pretty quiet. Hell, the 5.8 was a bit hissy with the D7000 which is as sensitive as it gets.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Conquer, I'm justvtalking about hiss, because the Mixamp 5.8 is the only wireless mixamp out, and it's never been a quiet amp. Just saying even with the super sensitive MA900, the hiss is pretty quiet. Hell, the 5.8 was a bit hissy with the D7000 which is as sensitive as it gets.


 
 Wireless, is it?
 How's that?


----------



## HiVLTAGE

Hey MLE, have you checked out the new Creative Aurvana Live! 2? I saw that you liked the original CAL! and I'm interested to hear your thoughts about the CAL! 2's.


----------



## catspaw

purpleangel said:


> Why not just get a Schiit Magni (or O2) headphone amplifier and plug it into the Titanium?


 
 I have an asgard already and i could perfectly well plug it int the titanium, but the problem with the Titanium (as with any sound card i assume) is that it is very far from neutral to my ears.
 While i do enjoy its sounds with the Z-5500 for gaming, its far from "good quality".
 Also I am planing to get a HD800 and i hear the ground loop from the titanium .


namelesspfg said:


> You have an X-Fi Titanium already?
> 
> You can just output a CMSS-3D Headphone-mixed signal to an external DAC with S/PDIF input. Headphone surround accomplished!


 
 Yeah, bouth it long ago. Not sure how Optical works really thats why im asking. I will check it out once i get the DAC (probably still 3-4 months from now) so np there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Wireless, is it?
> How's that?




It's on the first page. People just don't look at my guide, I see.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> It's on the first page. People just don't look at my guide, I see.


 
 That's not true, I read it all multiple times!
 I just forgot the golden rule for once - think first, post later


----------



## derbigpr

chicolom said:


> Ummm....The G430 uses Dolby Headphone...sooo...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I know it uses Dolby Headphone, but it uses something else as well, it uses more processing because this sounds way better than just regular dolby headphone. I know that because the sound changes when I start some video material with several channels. For example, If I'm listening to music in foobar2000, and then I start a blu-ray in some other program, the sound of music in foobar drastically changes, on top of already being changed by having the surround enabled. I'm telling you, I know what dolby is, I've owned 10,000 dollars worth of headphones in the last 3 years and ALL of them went trough the process of gaming and watching movies using my Asus ST as a sound card with dolby headphone enabled, so I know exactly how dolby headphone changes the sound, and this Logitech's processing is superior. 

As for increasing the detail, resolution, and makes things sound more real, yes, that is exactly what it does. I don't know why you find that difficult to accept, because the very point of these headphone related DSP's is to make the headphones sound...more REAL, and it actually makes the sounds sound more real. Its the most realistic feeling I've gotten so far with any sort of surround sound processing. Turning the surround mode on and off while listening to music clearly increases the soundstage DRASTICALLY, at least double the amount of the dolby headphone on the asus sound card, it moves the soundstage forward, places the instruments where they're suppose to be, and vocals have a very strong central position, they feel like they're in front of you, its actually closest to feeling like I'm listening to speakers. The thing is, unlike the dolby on asus sound card, which changes tonality of the sound pretty drastically, this one doesn't. I don't know what else it does, I assume on top of the dolby headphone it uses several more dsp's, but it just adds space, clarity and precision to the sound. Also, I know that the matches video is binaural, I never said its not. I just said the logitech processing has a very similar effect, in that its more realistic than any other dolby or surround mode I've tried, and I've tried all of them. I've played around with **** tons of plug ins and DSP's in the jriver and foobar as well, tb isone, etc.


----------



## SaLX

This is a quote from a thread here re: the Corsair Vengeance. It's _no_ great performer by any means (I had one on loan for a bit), however this is interesting:
  


> I am very familiar with the Vengeance 1500s, since I work at Corsair (but not on the headsets). For music, you almost certainly want to either use one of the preset music EQs or tune one yourself to match your preferences. The Vengeance headsets were tuned to match a response curve that's designed for HRTF performance. This means the low-frequency response is lighter, in order to preserve the dynamic range in the low-mids where the majority of the positional cues are found.
> 
> As far as advice for/against Dolby Headphone through a USB headset or a soundcard with Dolby (or other positional simulator), HRTFs are extremely complex to do correctly, *and generally work best when exactly matched to the response curve of the headset and even the axis of the driver relative to the ear cup*. This means that *most* people get positional audio cues better from a USB headset because the audio engineers can design the entire system to produce the closest representation of the HRTF. Of course, your mileage my vary, etc.


 
 These days, do we find it so hard to believe that a USB soundcard can sound good? And given the above statement regarding the _specific_ tuning of the soundcard to the headset.. well.. who knows? I'm out of here.........


----------



## Naingolann

evshrug said:


> There was one guy who wrote a nice comprehensive review comparing them... kman1191 I think, he already replied to you and I suggest you look up his review. Personally, I heard and liked the MA900 quite a bit, agree with Mad's review it's a great all-rounder with top-tier soundstage imaging, but it had a sort of veil that (without decreasing detail) seemed to make the listener take a few steps back from the action... Just not as involving for me as my AKGs. What I read about the K612 had me interested in a possible bargain blend of the Q701 and K712, though I haven't heard it I'm keen.




Thanks for chiming in. Yes, I've read his review, which basically is the only thing that I could find on the internet, and that's what really made me interested in those headphone. I've also heard people saying that it has the same drivers used in the K601, while others swear it's actually an upgraded driver and that it sounds better. This is so confusing, lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess I'll have to reacquire my Slyr from my aunt, and let her use something else. I need a headset... and the Slyr will do.


----------



## conquerator2

The babies have arrived!
  

  
 Not gonna comment on the sound yet.
 As far as comfort goes though, other than the velours being slightly itchy [it seems to be going away with time though] it is supreme.
 First impressions are positive - it is bassy but not as bassy as I'd thought [good!], sound is a bit soft with the stock cable [expected, but it's subtle, compared with a cable I had lying around, still waiting for the one I've ordered though], a bit less airy than the MA900 [IMO] but very relaxing sound yet still involving [IMO].
 So far very good with music, will test with games later tonight,
 I gotta say, the MA900 and X1 are rather different, still both very, VERY good.
 Keeping both!
 [Itchiness is gone :]]
 Also, beautiful headphones, they are!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the itchiness takes getting used to. Same as the MA900's partial on ear feel. Both become incredibly comfortable once you adjust to their feel.

And yeah, they're quite different from one another. The X1 is a bit more refined, but also a bit less balanced.


----------



## Qupie

Hello Mad Lust Envy and everybody else. 
  
 So my marantz receiver did great with my iGrado's. The problem is that the head clamping lets me only game for like an hour, before going back to my 5.1 system because of the clamping. So I am looking at another set of heatphones/headset. I have done some research with your guide as a basis. And I picked these three headphones:

 Sennheiser PC 360 (160 euro)
 Sennheiser HD 598 (180 euro)
 Audio technica AD700x (240 euro)
 AKG k/q 701 is at least 300 euro's over here in Europe.... so I am afraid it is not really an option for me.
  
 My first question is, as I was thinking about getting the PC 360 at first, is how much better the HD598 and AD700 are in sound quality compared to the PC 360? 
  
 As adding a separate mic is not a big deal for me, it seems the HD-598 are the better option (just because no money is 'wasted' on the mic, but that is just reasoning, I have no experience with any of these, so I would like to hear your opinion). 
 On the other hand, if the sound quality and comfort between the two are as comparable as your grading seems to indicate, the PC is cheaper and has a free mic.... (I know you point out the grading is not comparable, but still they overlap quite a bit... so again, I would like your opinion)
 Also, which of the two has the most clamping in your opinion? 
  
 Next to that, is the AD700 worth 60 euro's over the HD 598 in your opinion (when looking at being comparative for gaming)? 
 Also, how is the clamping of the AD700 compared to the Senneheisers? I heard the AD700 are very comfortable (you-tube, not really reliable), while you say they are mediocre in comfort.
 The lack in bass for the 'fun' part is a drawback for me as well. So my question would be, is it really noticeably better for 'soundwhoring' compared to the sennheisers, to overcome the higher cost and less fun when listening to music?
  
 I understand some of these questions are opinion based, but your opinion seems to be respected in allot of places, which at least beats the opinion of some random you-tube kids. I am also planning on testing every headphone in a store before I order one, but I am not too sure if every one of those is testable in my near vicinity (the Netherlands).

 Thnx in advance for your reply! 

 Qupie
  
  
 EDIT: after reading this post, the 558 seem to be a nice contender aswell... and quite a bit cheaper. Do you agree?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/605834/sennheiser-hd-558-vs-pc-360-vs-hd-598/15


----------



## Gdubz

mad lust envy said:


> It's on the first page. People just don't look at my guide, I see.


 
 I definitely read through your whole guide including why you started it and many of the $150-300 price point reviews. Was super helpful. Thank you so much for putting it together. 
  
 How are you liking the PS4 so far? I've got the Xbox One and am so far kinda disappointed, but some of the games have made it worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

qupie said:


> Hello Mad Lust Envy and everybody else.
> 
> So my marantz receiver did great with my iGrado's. The problem is that the head clamping lets me only game for like an hour, before going back to my 5.1 system because of the clamping. So I am looking at another set of heatphones/headset. I have done some research with your guide as a basis. And I picked these three headphones:
> 
> ...




The Sennheisers clamp a bit (Senns are known for clamp), and the AD700 doesn't clamp enough (a super loose fit).

Can you afford the Sony MA900? That would be an ideal solution.

Gdubz, I like it. Not worth really getting either console at the moment, but if there is something you really wanna play, I guess I'd say it's worth it. For me, there isn't enough, and the settings are lacking. I know it will get getter in the future, so I'm hopeful.


----------



## PurpleAngel

qupie said:


> Hello Mad Lust Envy and everybody else.
> 
> So my marantz receiver did great with my iGrado's. The problem is that the head clamping lets me only game for like an hour, before going back to my 5.1 system because of the clamping. So I am looking at another set of heatphones/headset. I have done some research with your guide as a basis. And I picked these three headphones:
> 
> ...


 
 Check out the AKG K612 Pro (120-Ohm), 144 Euros.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_612_pro.htm?sid=7ed9d5c689af0cf4f7ab7120a54a5be5
  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/685483/akg-k702-the-classic-vs-k612-pro-the-upstart-review-and-comparison


----------



## Gdubz

mad lust envy said:


> The Sennheisers clamp a bit (Senns are known for clamp), and the AD700 doesn't clamp enough (a super loose fit).
> 
> Can you afford the Sony MA900? That would be an ideal solution.
> 
> Gdubz, I like it. Not worth really getting either console at the moment, but if there is something you really wanna play, I guess I'd say it's worth it. For me, there isn't enough, and the settings are lacking. I know it will get getter in the future, so I'm hopeful.


 
 Haven't done a whole lot of reading up on the PS4 but I'll be getting one soon for my girlfriend. Aside from some units just not turning on, are there any other problems/issues? For example, lack of digital surround sound output via optical port like with the Xbox One that I've got?


----------



## martin vegas

Took the dacmagic xs back and got the dragonfly..i think they are both average..they sound like headphone amps that are around the same price(without a dac) better off spending more money and getting what you pay for..i can't even be bothered taking the dragonfly back!


----------



## Qupie

purpleangel said:


> Check out the AKG K612 Pro (120-Ohm), 144 Euros.
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_612_pro.htm?sid=7ed9d5c689af0cf4f7ab7120a54a5be5
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/685483/akg-k702-the-classic-vs-k612-pro-the-upstart-review-and-comparison


 
  
 Thnx for the suggestion! Nice comparison and review. But as gaming will be my #1 use for these, and the sound stage is smaller compared to the k701, I think it will be inferior compared to the other ones I pointed out. I am not sure about this, but as the review is not written with as primary objective gaming, I feel it is to risky to buy it for gaming.... (please, prove me wrong if so)


mad lust envy said:


> The Sennheisers clamp a bit (Senns are known for clamp), and the AD700 doesn't clamp enough (a super loose fit).
> 
> Can you afford the Sony MA900? That would be an ideal solution.
> 
> Gdubz, I like it. Not worth really getting either console at the moment, but if there is something you really wanna play, I guess I'd say it's worth it. For me, there isn't enough, and the settings are lacking. I know it will get getter in the future, so I'm hopeful.


 

 Thnx for the suggestion, I totally overlooked the Sony. Probably because I am not a big fan of Sony as a brand. I owned a diskman (yeah, I know, that is a while ago  ) and had it send back 6 times in its 2 year warranty time. And everytime it returned to me, something else was broken.... 
 I am also curious how they hold up compared to the audio dynamics / sennheisers in terms of soundwhoring. As that will be my primary use for them. (prefer normal speakers when listening to music) You said they are superior to the 5xxx series of Sennheiser in your review, is this in general, or also for pure sound-whoring? I am not really looking forward to buying something of Sony again. But a little bit of convincing might get me over the line.

 Also, do you have any experience with the AKG 612? Do you like it for gaming?


----------



## Murder Mike

martin vegas said:


> Took the dacmagic xs back and got the dragonfly..i think they are both average..they sound like headphone amps that are around the same price(without a dac) better off spending more money and getting what you pay for..i can't even be bothered taking the dragonfly back!


 
 When you buy way into the hype this will sometimes happen. There's always the possibility they just didn't click with you or you didn't give your ears enough time to warm up to them.


----------



## martin vegas

murder mike said:


> When you buy way into the hype this will sometimes happen. There's always the possibility they just didn't click with you or you didn't give your ears enough time to warm up to them.


 
 Not my ears..just average gear..i bet the music streamer isn't that much better..can't get good sound in the low hundreds..don't believe what you read!


----------



## HiVLTAGE

Gonna be buying a pair of Sennheiser 558's, could I do better for gaming/music headphones in the price range? Max is just $130.
  
 I listen to rap/hip hop, some electronic and then jazz/r&b, along with gaming. Is this the best choice?


----------



## PurpleAngel

qupie said:


> Thnx for the suggestion! Nice comparison and review. But as gaming will be my #1 use for these, and the sound stage is smaller compared to the K701, I think it will be inferior compared to the other ones I pointed out. I am not sure about this, but as the review is not written with as primary objective gaming, I feel it is to risky to buy it for gaming.... (please, prove me wrong if so)


 
 So far I (personally) have not found any negative feedback about gaming with the K612 Pros.
 And it does have a lower price then the other headphones talked about.


----------



## grizzlybeast

conquerator2 said:


> The babies have arrived!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 x1's are great hp's... I think the three I am after is the dx700, akg k712, and the x1


----------



## lttlfld

Can you directly compare the 598s vs 990 pros? They are both sitting at $150 right now. Links:
http://www.frys.com/product/7821729
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0011UB9CQ


----------



## conquerator2

grizzlybeast said:


> x1's are great hp's... I think the three I am after is the dx700, akg k712, and the x1




Oh, I'd love to try those two too. But they'd be better off with some ampage which I don't have yet, the AKG mostly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apples to oranges. 558 is a lot more balanced and doesn't emphasize any major part of the audio spectrum. The 990 Pros are bass and treble heavy, with recessed mids, so some details will be drowned out in favor of more excitement in the bass, and sparkliness. It's more exciting than the 558, but not as competitive, and some details/sounds will sound distant or harder to hear. The 990 Pros also benefit from amping, while the 558s don't need much of anything to sound good.


----------



## lttlfld

mad lust envy said:


> Apples to oranges. 558 is a lot more balanced and doesn't emphasize any major part of the audio spectrum. The 990 Pros are bass and treble heavy, with recessed mids, so some details will be drowned out in favor of more excitement in the bass, and sparkliness. It's more exciting than the 558, but not as competitive, and some details/sounds will sound distant or harder to hear. The 990 Pros also benefit from amping, while the 558s don't need much of anything to sound good.



Thanks for the reply! The best place to be caught is between two great deals


----------



## lttlfld

Also, while I've got your attention, have you gotten to try the Momentums for gaming Mad Lust Envy?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, if I don't have a headphone on the guide, I either haven't tried it, or haven't had enough time with it for gaming. That simple.


----------



## lttlfld

mad lust envy said:


> Guys, if I don't have a headphone on the guide, I either haven't tried it, or haven't had enough time with it for gaming. That simple.



That's on me. Thanks again for your work!


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Look guys, if I don't have a headphone on the guide, I either haven't tried it, or don't have enough experience with it.


 
  
 How does the STAX SR-009 compare to a bowl of Captain Crunch?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Stax was a bit colder when driven by the T.G.Lee.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> The Stax was a bit colder when driven by the T.G.Lee.


 
  
 Thanks! Now I can import my Häagen-DAC with confidence.


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> This is a quote from a thread here re: the Corsair Vengeance. It's _no_ great performer by any means (I had one on loan for a bit), however this is interesting:
> 
> These days, do we find it so hard to believe that a USB soundcard can sound good? And given the above statement regarding the _specific_ tuning of the soundcard to the headset.. well.. who knows? I'm out of here.........


 
  
 It sounds plausible, but in practice, it usually just winds up being marketing hype...and there's no way in hell I'm giving up A3D/EAX support for the classics, not until someone can effectively emulate the DSP and pipe the output through any audio device.
  
 Even with those aside, I'm extremely skeptical they'd have anything on an MA900 + CMSS-3D Headphone for positional audio, let alone my old Stax SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 setup.
  


axelcloris said:


> How does the STAX SR-009 compare to a bowl of Captain Crunch?


 
  
 Not bad, but I found a bowl of Crunchy Bunches to make a better match.
  
 (Leave it to one of my friends to introduce me to webcomics parodying cereal mascots...)


----------



## chicolom

derbigpr said:


> I know it uses Dolby Headphone, but it uses something else as well, it uses more processing because this sounds way better than just regular dolby headphone. I know that because the sound changes when I start some video material with several channels. For example, If I'm listening to music in foobar2000, and then I start a blu-ray in some other program, the sound of music in foobar drastically changes, on top of already being changed by having the surround enabled. I'm telling you, I know what dolby is, I've owned 10,000 dollars worth of headphones in the last 3 years and ALL of them went trough the process of gaming and watching movies using my Asus ST as a sound card with dolby headphone enabled, so I know exactly how dolby headphone changes the sound, and this Logitech's processing is superior.
> 
> As for* increasing the detail, resolution, and makes things sound more real, yes, that is exactly what it does. I don't know why you find that difficult to accept, because the very point of these headphone related DSP's is to make the headphones sound...more REAL*, and it actually makes the sounds sound more real. Its the most realistic feeling I've gotten so far with any sort of surround sound processing.


 
  
  
 The point of a DSP is to process a signal, and every time you digitally process and alter the signal your _are _losing _some _information from the original.  The nature of altering a signal can only be a destructive process in regards to the original information (in terms of bits). 
  
 Now, if the processing is done well enough, it's possible to_ minimize _some of those negative effects to the resolution and still deliver whatever the benefits of the DSP are (surround sound in this case).  A bad DSP however can be sort of equivalent to taking a photo and then slapping a bunch of dirty instagram filters on it. So, to be able to process a signal, add in surround sound, AND _simultaneously _improve upon the detail/resolution/etc from the original signal all simultaneously seems a bit farfetched.  That's why it's hard to believe.  Of course I want to believe you (we all want better sound), but you'll understand why it sounds too good to be true. 
  
  
 Maybe you could try uninstalling the Logitech software that came with it and see if it still sounds the same?  This would at least determine whether the processing was done in the USB hardware or from the logitech software.
  
  
 Maybe you could also send it to MLE so he can review it??  It'd be good to add another decent budget headset option to the list (since there aren't that many on there), and also get a second opinion on your findings regarding this sound card(from someone who's impressions I trust).  It's not that I DON'T trust your or anything (although I do remember you saying the Q701's soundstage/imaging was garbage at one point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).  Regardless, for something like a surround sound DSP a second opinion would be appreciated since different DSPs can vary a lot in favorability from person to person with HRTFs and what not.
  
 If it's as good as you say it is it, it would be worth it buying the G430 just to get the magical DSP of this USB card.  
  
  
  


derbigpr said:


> Also, I know that the matches video is binaural, I never said its not.


 
  


Spoiler: O RLY?     0_o



Quote:


derbigpr said:


> You know the* dolby headphone* video on youtube with the* match stick box* shaking around you?


----------



## conquerator2

I am very happy to say that the X1 is the first headphone that does not cause me any discomfort after prolonged use.
Spend a few hours playing Most Wanted and what an immersive and comfy experience!
The sound signature really sings with games.
The big memory velour Earpads and comfy headband truly makes them disappear!
The first few minutes can be a bit itchy but it then goes away and once you are lost in a game, they disappear completely.
Sure I have to readjust them after a time, but it's like a whole hour before I gotta!
The bass is more pronounced in games than with music it seems (which is true in general with DH I guess?) which is also good as I thought it'd be quite a.bit more bassy.
Great separation and everything you need for games!
Once the stock cable is replaced, it should tighten up and crystallize even more.
If the pads were replaceable, that'd be awesome... I'd buy a bunch of these pads!
Headphone is beautiful and feels solid.
I probably prefer it slightly for games than music so it's good to have the MA900 too.
The comfort is impeccable though, it's a first for me.
If this is Philips last headphone entry, then hats off to them.
Overall, I'd say build is a solid 9/10, sound is an 8.5 (9 - games, 8 - music, may be subject to change). Comfort is a 9 and so is value IMO.
A solid 9+/10 in my book.
Really happy with these as an all-round multi purpose headphone.
MA-900 gets a 9 too (sound 9, comfort 8, build 8 , value 9)
W1000X gets a 7 - 8 here. It's beautiful and sounds good, but kinda pales in comparison to these IMO... For shame!
MA900 and X1 is similar in that they are very good, high quality headphones from a brand that'd be a bit surprising for me. I like Sony and Philips they make great TVs and other electronics but headphones?!
Oh well, I'd recommend owning both just because they are a tremendous value and exception in those Brands kinda.
You can also get them both for around $500 even in EU, which is not common with most HPs
Ok out. Cya tomorrow. Night night.


----------



## SoberPanda

Hey MLE, would you suggest the HD598 or MA900 *sound*-wise?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Right IN THE review, I stated it makes the HD598 obsolete, and is superior in almost every way.

People just don't check.


----------



## SaLX

> *derbigpr* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


 
 Do you use an external amp out of your ST btw? If you do, do you use the RCA outs or the headphone out? Just wondering thanks.


----------



## MattTCG

Are you getting grumpy


----------



## chicolom

Hi Mud Last Envy.   I'm looking for a good gaming headphone that is under $15, is portable, has clips and is preferably silver in color.
  
 Do you know of anything like that???
  
 PLEAZZ HELP!!!


----------



## chicolom

chicolom said:


> Hi Mud Last Envy.   I'm looking for a good gaming headphone that is under $15, is portable, has clips and is preferably silver in color.
> 
> Do you know of anything like that???
> 
> PLEAZZ HELP!!!


 
  
_I see my post was ignored _
  
 BUMP!!!


----------



## Change is Good

Do I need an amp for the Q701/K702 or am I ok with just the mixamp?


----------



## Change is Good

Can you compare the X1 and MA900? Also, do need an amp for those?

Sorry if I sound like a noob


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Do I need an amp for the Q701/K702 or am I ok with just the mixamp?


 
  
 The mixamp is way overkill for that headphone. 
  
 I recommend the FiiO E5.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, and one last question...

How do I hook up my mixamp to an amp if I was to need one?


----------



## rikstaker

Hi I am new here  lurked for a while. I wish I had found this place earlier..I would never have bought those horrible tritton ax pros 5.1. Sound like cheap headphones you would pickup in a 7/11, surround is just terrible and they broke in 4 months. My gaming needs a sound upgrade. I need something that would give me good positional audio in cod and battlefield in the range of $100-120. I also watch movies, and play non multiplayer games like last of us etc so I dont wanna sacrifice too much on bass. I have a ps3 and earforce dss.
  
 I am on the fence with the ath-a700x for a balance of good positional audio and decent bass(from amazon reviews) I am not to sure about ad700s, people say bass is lacking and I really dont have cash to spare for a dual setup ad700 for multiplayer and some other bass heavy hadphones for movies and casual gaming. How is the a700x soundstage compared to ad700 and bass? and are they fit for my role overall? thanks


----------



## Change is Good

rikstaker said:


> Hi I am new here  lurked for a while. I wish I had found this place earlier..I would never have bought those horrible tritton ax pros 5.1. Sound like cheap headphones you would pickup in a 7/11, surround is just terrible and they broke in 4 months. My gaming needs a sound upgrade. I need something that would give me good positional audio in cod and battlefield in the range of $100-120. I also watch movies, and play non multiplayer games like last of us etc so I dont wanna sacrifice too much on bass. I have a ps3 and earforce dss.
> 
> I am on the fence with the ath-a700x for a balance of good positional audio and decent bass(from amazon reviews) I am not to sure about ad700s, people say bass is lacking and I really dont have cash to spare for a dual setup ad700 for multiplayer and some other bass heavy hadphones for movies and casual gaming. How is the a700x soundstage compared to ad700 and bass? and are they fit for my role overall? thanks


 
  
 May I suggest going with the MA900? That's if you can extend you're budget a little bit. IMO, it's the best bang for the buck at under $200.
  
 The AD700 is extremely bass lacking if you want balance, and the A700x would not be ideal for competitive gaming when compared to an open headphone (that's if you _are_ referring to the closed A700x and not the open A_D_700x).


----------



## chicolom

I would say HD558 would be a good option too.
  
 Pretty much in his price range and certainly more balanced than the AD700.  Excellent soundstage capabilities and if he wants more bass for single player he can rape it with the DSS bass boost. 
  
 Ad700 is too dry and bright for anything but pure soundwhoring.  A700 is closed and compromised.


----------



## Gun21

MLE.. I have a budget of roughly $5000 - can you recommend me a headphone as long as it's not Bose or Beats pls. I want an intimate headphone with an open and spacious soundstage with veiled highs yet a sparkliy treble. I want a beige one thanks btw ty. Do you deliver?


----------



## Change is Good

gun21 said:


> MLE.. I have a budget of roughly $5000 - can you recommend me a headphone as long as it's not Bose or Beats pls. I want an intimate headphone with an open and spacious soundstage with veiled highs yet a sparkliy treble. I want a beige one thanks btw ty. Do you deliver?


 
  
 Send me the $5000 and _I'll_ send you a TH900 _and _a HD800...
  
 Delivery, in person, within the US is included


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tell u wat


----------



## Change is Good

^ How do they sound, Hank?!?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Needs more Propane, not enough burn in ,I tell u wat


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Needs more Propane, not enough burn in ,I tell u wat


 
  
 You called in a fake propane emergency? That's a $50 fine after I report it, I tell u wat


----------



## Change is Good

MLE, if only you'd get paid for how many hits this thread gets.
  
 1 million and counting........................


----------



## Gun21

Just want something that's good in games (Dolby headphone preferably.....maybe THX dunno) yet looks ultra cool out on the street. I don't want to get bullied though.


----------



## chicolom

gun21 said:


> MLE.. *I have a budget of roughly $5000* - can you recommend me a headphone as long as it's not Bose or Beats pls. I want an intimate headphone with an open and spacious soundstage with veiled highs yet a sparkliy treble. I want a beige one thanks btw ty. Do you deliver?


 
  
  
  
 I'm afraid there just aren't a lot of options in that price range.  You should save up a little more and expand your budget to $100,000.


----------



## appsmarsterx

gun21 said:


> Just want something that's good in games (Dolby headphone preferably.....maybe THX dunno) yet looks ultra cool out on the street. I don't want to get bullied though.


 

 it depends on how you define the term "ultra cool" ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Full-sized heaphones that aren't the consumer grade brands like Beats aren't ginna be 'cool'.

I prefer something discrete above bling, and the KSC35 fits the mold.

To me, the only headphones that don't look ridiculous when worn are ones that have very little depth, and stick close to the head. Something along the lines of V-modas. I don't like V-modas styling, but they don't look awkward when worn.

Audio-Technica's ear suit line, like the ES7 also. only probably is they hurt like hell.


----------



## rikstaker

change is good said:


> May I suggest going with the MA900? That's if you can extend you're budget a little bit. IMO, it's the best bang for the buck at under $200.
> 
> The AD700 is extremely bass lacking if you want balance, and the A700x would not be ideal for competitive gaming when compared to an open headphone (that's if you _are_ referring to the closed A700x and not the open A_D_700x).




Hey thanks for the reply. I also note that dt990 pro 250 on amazon for 145. How do these compare?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico, I need ur halp plz. I need a link to those pad covers you have, or whatever else the X1 owners use. Desperately.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I need ur halp plz. I need a link to those pad covers you have, or whatever else the X1 owners use. Desperately.


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1386405017&sr=1-2&keywords=headphone+covers
  
 You can also cut a circle in a pair of $1 socks from the dollar store (which is actually what's installed on my X1 right now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
  
 What are you going to use them for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, so expensive..

How do you cut the sock?

As for what I'm using them for, I'll be testing it with stuff like the M50 and CAL. That way, if I ever get any pleather padded headphones in the future, I'll feel that I can wear them without feeling tortured by the pads.


----------



## Change is Good

Or you can get these lovely alcantara pads and stretch them if you have too.. 

They are shamelessly not being used as I prefer the sound I get from the alpha pads on my 1540 than the comfort from the alcantaras.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, so expensive..
> 
> How do you cut the sock?
> 
> As for what I'm using them for, I'll be testing it with stuff like the M50 and CAL. That way, if I ever get any pleather padded headphones in the future, I'll feel that I can wear them without feeling tortured by the pads.


 
  
  
 Well, they do come in a bag of 100, but yeah.  If you _do_ buy them, let me know and I'll will buy some of them off of you as I could use a couple.
  
  
 For the socks, I just cut a circular hole with some scissors.  It's crude but effective.  I'm sure there's a better method though.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, so expensive..
> 
> How do you cut the sock?
> 
> As for what I'm using them for, I'll be testing it with stuff like the M50 and CAL. That way, if I ever get any pleather padded headphones in the future, I'll feel that I can wear them without feeling tortured by the pads.


 
  


chicolom said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Large-Stretchable-Headphone-Covers-Earmuff-style/dp/B009CDXPCG/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1386405017&sr=1-2&keywords=headphone+covers
> 
> You can also cut a circle in a pair of $1 socks from the dollar store (which is actually what's installed on my X1 right now
> 
> ...


 
  
 And wait, isn't that a bag of 100? Shouldn't you have some to spare for MLE, chico?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
*Edit: Ah, just saw your recent post. I was under the assumption you owned a pack...*


----------



## Change is Good

rikstaker said:


> Hey thanks for the reply. I also note that dt990 pro 250 on amazon for 145. How do these compare?


 
  
 Never heard em... but have you thought about reading MLE's reviews and compare the impressions, yourself?


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> And wait, isn't that a bag of 100? Shouldn't you have some to spare for MLE, chico?!?


 
  
  
 I never bought a bag myself, I just grabbed about 3 pairs last time I went to a meet and they were handing some out.  I only have 1 pair left though.
  
 BTW, those little covers are alright for comfort, but they're not quite as nice as actual velour.  They're a tad more itchy at times.  I think the sock method may be slightly more comfortable (still slightly worse than actual velour).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, how'd you get a second pair of Alcantara for the 1840? I thought it used velour?

Chico, I mean which section of the cheap socks did you cut? I'm really bad without a step by step for such things. 

I sound like the very newbies that ask me the same things on the daily, lol.

edit: jesus, my english writing has been taking a dump lately.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, how's you get a second pair of Alcantara for the 1840? I thought it used velour?
> 
> Chico, I mean which section of the cheap socks did you cut? I'm really bad without a step by step for such things.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The _1540_ came with two pairs of alcantaras. I slapped the pair that are used on the 1840 for the picture. The new ones still have that "out of the box" smell to em.
  
 At least one of these pairs needs a home where they'll be used and appreciated. The pair that I do use is not very often, so I may sell those as well.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Chico, I mean which section of the cheap socks did you cut? I'm really bad without a step by step for such things.


 
  
  
 I snipped off just the tube part of the sock and just used that.  I pulled that part completely over the cups.  Then I trimmed the other open end down with scissors until it looked like that circular hole.
  
 The only annoying part is that edges around the open hole like to curl outwards and fray sometimes.  I used cheapo elasticy socks though.
  


Spoiler: Pics


----------



## Change is Good

Hey, now we know how to put our holey socks to use...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think I have some really thin socks. I'll try that.


----------



## chicolom

Panty hoes may work as well.  Possibly even better because of how thin they are.
  
 I've never tried them on though.  _On the_ _headphones, _that is. 
  
 Ahem.


----------



## zyrex

mad lust envy said:


>


 
  
 Hi,
  
 I want to buy a headphone around 100$ for gaming and movies.(I don't care about music.) So, I am between these:
  
 1)Sharkoon X-Tatic S7
  
 2)Plantronics Gamecom 780
  
 3)Creative SB Tactic3D Rage
  
 Movies are important for me too not just gaming. So would you suggest one of them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As stated earlier, today, if it's not on the guide, I have:

a. Haven't tried it

b. Don't have enough experience with it

c. Tried it and thought it wasn't worth putting on the guide


I know it may seem like I'm able to try as many gaming cans as I can, but I'm sure I make much less than most of you, and I don't get paid to do this. Most of the headphones I've reviewed/owned have all been out of pocket/very impulsive purchases. I haven't had a review in 3 months, because times are hard, and I can't afford buying things/borrowing them and paying to ship them back, etc. My recent purchases (PS4), were either already paid for ages ago, or I sold stuff to fund it.

I'd love to sit here and review many new headphones/headsets, but reality isn't that simple.

I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser G4ME One, Audio Technica ATH-ADG1

as far as headsets go...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'm particularly interested in the Sennheiser G4ME One...


 
  
  
 Surely the G4ME one is a PC360 rebadge.  Look at the product pages.  They didn't even bother to differentiate them.
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/g4me-one-open-acoustic-pc-gaming-headset
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gamer-headset-hifi-sound-noise-cancelling-microphone-pc-360


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Surely the G4ME one is a PC360 rebadge.  Look at the product pages.  They didn't even bother to differentiate them.
> http://en-de.sennheiser.com/g4me-one-open-acoustic-pc-gaming-headset
> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gamer-headset-hifi-sound-noise-cancelling-microphone-pc-360




You're probably right. It may actually be inferior to the PC360, since the vents seem less open...

My guess is they're phasing out the PC labelling and giving them an obvious name for easier recognition.

Though the PC360 was also called the G4ME.

We have our G4MEs, our SLYRs, our KRAKENS.... what's going on with the gaming headset industry and their l337 sp33k? Though judging by the abundant amount of gamers with names like xXXQU1CKSCOP3ZxxX I guess it's understandable that they're targeting a larger audience.


Just waiting for the eventual Beats PRO ELITE GAMING headset, backed up by the best of the best tournament players. Frankly, I'm *SHOCKED* that they haven't released a Beats gaming headset. From a business standpoint, they would probably be the most popular gaming headset in the world. Love 'em or hate 'em, Beats is a monster of a company (no pun intended), and they care surely profit from gamers as well.


----------



## SaLX

Man .. MLE... you really ought to be professionally reviewing gaming headphones/headsets. There's a resurgence in the HP market; and along with it a huge market in gaming headsets too. A lot of gaming/tech sites are refocusing on audio, and to a man they practically don't know squat.
  
 Can't think of anybody else I'd want to review **** like this. There's some 'respected' dude who reviews headphones, who also reviews sneakers .. I mean come on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah, you're talking about Joe, akaTRENT? He's one of my main motivations into starting this guide. His reviews were great.

He stopped reviewing headsets on his youtube account because he got hired by Engadget. He uses his akaTRENT account for shoe reviews now.

I'd call his story a success. He got into the business. And deservedly so.

He also posted here, lol. I haven't seen his reviews lately, so I hope he's still with Engadget.


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> A lot of gaming/tech sites are refocusing on audio, and to a man they practically don't know squat.


 
  
 This is true.  I remember reading a review of the A50s where after devoting several pages to the looks and presentation they spent all of three sentences describing the actual sound.  *facepalm*


----------



## Change is Good

Have you ever thought about venturing into creating your own review website?


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Beats is a _monster _of a company..


 
  
  
 That pun was _Dre_adful.  I can't bel_ieb _you said it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, that would require a lot of web knowledge, editors, capital, etc. Lol. Things I don't have.


----------



## conquerator2

Erm, why do we put socks on our X1s? I really dunno can somebody brief me in, please?


----------



## chicolom

You could probably setup a decent wordpress site that could do it.
  


conquerator2 said:


> Erm, why do we put socks on our X1s? I really dunno can somebody brief me in, please?


 
  
 Only to keep the pads extra clean.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Or to not get the feeling of pleather hitting the skin. Yes, I hate it _that_ much.


----------



## SaLX

akaTrent -that's the guy. Yes he was very good and it was unfair of me to mention sneakers in light of his albeit few but excellent headphone reviews. But seeing as we're asking about sock-mods......


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be fair, he could've mentioned on his youtube page that he was gonna start doing sneaker reviews, lol.


----------



## lttlfld

MLE has the most consistent review scheme for headphones that I've seen. That's why so many people read it and why we're all begging for more. If someone's getting paid money to do this, you ought to be as well. Screw capitalizatioN and punct!ation. Nobody gives a damn


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> To be fair, he could've mentioned on his youtube page that he was gonna start doing sneaker reviews, lol.


 
  
 How the F do you review _sneakers_??
  
 LOL, crazy sneaker-philes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OOH, THE SOLES ON THESE ARE SO COMFY. LOOK AT THE CURVES ON TONGUE. THE STITCH PATTERN MATCHES WELL WITH THE NIKE LOGO. YUP, THIS IS HIGH END.



Jk. I dunno. There are sneaker enthusiasts, for sure. I just like something that looks good, and is of a reputable brand.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I just like something that looks good, and is of a reputable brand.


That sounds like the head fi equivalent of someone coming in and only wanting beats (although I don't think beats look good and I don't find them reputable : |)


----------



## jorgevelez666

Someone has already tried the Corsair Vengeance 1400 headset? currently i have a Asus DGX 5.1 dedicated soundcard on my pc and of course i don't care about music and stuff just gaming. I was already sold on the Samson SR850, but having a mic is kind of important for me. So... what do you think guys, the 1400 is it worth it?
  
 BTW i only use headset for Battlefield 3/4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> That sounds like the head fi equivalent of someone coming in and only wanting beats (although I don't think beats look good and I don't find them reputable : |)




Well, thats because people who dont have any real enthusiasm about a hobby, really just buys whatever looks good and is of a good brand. I guess thats just a typical consumer who doesnt really do their homework on a product.

If I wasnt into audio, I'd probably would be real happy with some Beats. Since its a general opinion that they are the most popular and well known headphone makers, thats what I'd go for if I wanted to feel I got the best, without caring. Advertising is everything. Hell, I'm sure we probably have some sneakers of a reputable brand, and not because we did our homework as to which has the most bang for buck.


----------



## SaLX

jorgevelez666 said:


> Someone has already tried the Corsair Vengeance 1400 headset? currently i have a Asus DGX 5.1 dedicated soundcard on my pc and of course i don't care about music and stuff just gaming. I was already sold on the Samson SR850, but having a mic is kind of important for me. So... what do you think guys, the 1400 is it worth it?
> 
> BTW i only use headset for Battlefield 3/4


 
 Had the 1500's on loan (USB). Just dull for games, dull for movies and dull for music. No bass, but the lack of it doesn't help the mids or highs one bit for FPS's. Maybe using your Asus might invigorate the experience over the USB soundcard; but I doubt it. Good mic. Very uncomfortable - maybe these new ones have changed that, but they look the same. _They got good reviews from gaming websites_. Sheesh.
  
 I'm willing to bet if you asked MLE or others here to review the Corsair Vengeance (USB or analog) they'd give them:
  
 Fun: 5/10 (Mediocre).
 Competitive: 5/10 (Mediocre).
 Comfort: 3/10 (God Awful).


----------



## zyrex

Is there anyone who has used Sharkoon X-Tatic Digital or S7? These headphones look really good but I have to see some users opinion. BTW I don't care about music quality. Gaming and movies are important.


----------



## jorgevelez666

salx said:


> Had the 1500's on loan (USB). Just dull for games, dull for movies and dull for music. No bass, but the lack of it doesn't help the mids or highs one bit for FPS's. Maybe using your Asus might invigorate the experience over the USB soundcard; but I doubt it. Good mic. Very uncomfortable - maybe these new ones have changed that, but they look the same. _They got good reviews from gaming websites_. Sheesh.
> 
> I'm willing to bet if you asked MLE or others here to review the Corsair Vengeance (USB or analog) they'd give them:
> 
> ...


 
 Well thx a lot *SaLX* even though i cannot catch a break, i guess the quality of headsets is not even close to the one on headphones. I still want some 50mm Headphones/set and my budget is around 80-90usd any other suggestions or should i go straight to the SR850's


----------



## Totoori

Hi,

  

 I've read and posted multiple times but I just can't decide.

  

 My priority is *comfort > gaming > music*. I am not a huge fan of bass and would rather have more and cleared details. They will not be leaving my desk and I don't really have a strict budget.

  

*MA900s* seem to be exactly what I want but I really dislike the way they look. I feel like spending $200 on something when I don't like how they look is a bad idea.

  

*AKG k/q 701/702/etc* seem to be my second choice. I like how they look and everything. The problem here is that I cannot get Amazon to ship them to me. They are ridiculously priced in Canada as well.

  

*AKG 702 Annies* seem perfect but pricey. I can't really find them for less than $439 and that is from someone who wont even ship to me. The HE-400's are in this price range as well, but the annies are better for what I want to use them for.

  

*Philips X1* - Seem like an okay option but they're pricey and have heard bad things about them.

  

 So anyway, some questions:


 Any recommendations on what to go for and where to get them from?

 What all will I need for these setups? I do not have a soundcard or any other device. Which should I grab? Are amps useless for something that doesn't need it or is it a good purchase anyway? EG: I have been told MA900s don't need one, but will it make the sound better?

 As someone inexperienced with headphones (Using $30 Plantronics should I stay away from more expensive models like HE-400 and annies? I don't know what I want or what I like yet. I am nowhere near anywhere to be able to test anything out. I'd probably have to drive four hours on ice to be able to get to a place I could.


----------



## SaLX

totoori said:


> *MA900s* seem to be exactly what I want but I really dislike the way they look. I feel like spending $200 on something when I don't like how they look is a bad idea.


 
  
 1. _Kind of_ know what you're on about, however look again at their engineering and design with new eyes. They are designed to be as light as a feather hence their headband is thin and made of magnesium for strength (unless I'm mistaken). Look at the huge circumference of the cups - they have huge drivers that impart that wonderful soundstage, hence their size. Form follows function. It's a great headphone by all accounts and that's how the design evolved from the initial brief. Try and re-appraise your feelings for them based on that; as most importantly, the MA900 is the headphone for you by your own admission.
  
 I think they look very elegant myself.
  
 2. I have never looked at myself in a mirror wearing headphones. Nor should you.


----------



## Totoori

salx said:


> 1. _Kind of_ know what you're on about, however look again at their engineering and design with new eyes. They are designed to be as light as a feather hence their headband is thin and made of magnesium for strength (unless I'm mistaken). Look at the huge circumference of the cups - they have huge drivers that impart that wonderful soundstage, hence their size. Form follows function. It's a great headphone by all accounts and that's how the design evolved from the initial brief. Try and re-appraise your feelings for them based on that; as most importantly, the MA900 is the headphone for you by your own admission.
> 
> I think they look very elegant myself.
> 
> 2. I have never looked at myself in a mirror wearing headphones. Nor should you.


 
 Fair enough! They just seem so flimsy though. While watching a YouTube review of them it just seems like the ears seem to roll around. My big question with these is will I notice a big enough difference if I go with q701s? I also don't need anything else with mA900s right? No sound card or amp? I can get a Maximus VI Hero MoBo which has exceptional onboard sound.


----------



## Kursah

I wish there was a closed version of the X1 or MA900. I need some sub $200 HP's to replace my Denon D2000's (r.i.p. at least for now...). I miss that D2000 sound with the bass impact and presence. If I didn't have the kids and wife close by constantly some open headphones would be on the way to try out. I am so-so thinking DT770-80's. I do game a fair bit, but listen to  a lot of music...mostly rock, metal, a little rap. I like solid bass, low extension and lower impact, and loud volumes when I am in the mood to damage my ear drums with pure negligence!
  
 Any suggestions?


----------



## Change is Good

kursah said:


> I wish there was a closed version of the X1 or MA900. I need some sub $200 HP's to replace my Denon D2000's (r.i.p. at least for now...). I miss that D2000 sound with the bass impact and presence. If I didn't have the kids and wife close by constantly some open headphones would be on the way to try out. I am so-so thinking DT770-80's. I do game a fair bit, but listen to  a lot of music...mostly rock, metal, a little rap. I like solid bass, low extension and lower impact, and loud volumes when I am in the mood to damage my ear drums with pure negligence!
> 
> Any suggestions?


 
  
 It won't be Dx000 bass, but the Soundmagic HP100 can definitely hold its own at the $200 price range...


----------



## daleb

Has anyone tried the HD600s for gaming?


----------



## Kursah

I'll look into the Soundmagics...I had glanced at them once or twice. Seems like the HP out on my Denon AVR might drive them nicely too.... that output is making my JVC HADX3's sound quite nice atm. But it's not designed for the bass I seek....though it's 2/3 of the way there with the Denon powering them. That gives me big hope on those soundmagics. I may have to sell a couple of my hp's to make this happen.
  
 Any other pair to look at? The Soundmagics seem like something right up my alley...I'm hoping they're not too bass-light. Wish I had a local place to test them out.


----------



## FightCat

HD650 for gaming ?
  
 Please discuss.


----------



## AxelCloris

fightcat said:


> HD650 for gaming ?
> 
> Please discuss.


 
  
 See first post.
  
 /discussion


----------



## FightCat

axelcloris said:


> See first post.
> 
> /discussion


 
 Oh I'm sorry, I never knew it was there.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## NamelessPFG

totoori said:


> My priority is *comfort > gaming > music*. I am not a huge fan of bass and would rather have more and cleared details. They will not be leaving my desk and I don't really have a strict budget.


 
  
 Everything about that statement screams "Stax Lambda", except for two things:
  

We're now talking about $400-800+ headphone systems, particularly depending on whether you're going for the speaker amp + transformer box route or a dedicated 'stat amp.
If you thought the MA900 was ugly, a typical Lambda will utterly offend your eyes with its boxy design. They don't look pretty...but the sound and comfort are top-notch. Unfortunately, the sleek looking Stax sets are all Omega-series (SR-Omega, SR-007, SR-009) and firmly priced out of the reach of all but the most devoted audiophiles.
  
 As for the MA900, it's proven itself pretty well, but keep in mind that the treble is kinda recessed and subdued. You'll need some EQ to bring it out.
  


fightcat said:


> HD650 for gaming ?
> 
> Please discuss.


 
  
 The HD650 has a review in the guide already, if you want Mad Lust Envy's opinion.
  
 If you want a summary, this line should do it:
  


> I loved them for music, movies, TV, and anime, and liked but wasn't thrilled by them for gaming.


 
  
 As for the HD600, no reviews there. Quite a shame, since a lot of what I've been reading suggests that the HD600 is actually better than the HD650 overall, despite what the prices suggest.


----------



## FightCat

namelesspfg said:


> Everything about that statement screams "Stax Lambda", except for two things:
> 
> 
> We're now talking about $400-800+ headphone systems, particularly depending on whether you're going for the speaker amp + transformer box route or a dedicated 'stat amp.
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I've read it now, I reserved a a couple of months old second hand one for about 350$ (in Turkey a brand new goes for 650$). Should I be disappointed with my decision? Should I go and get myself a DT990 Pro instead for which I've heard fatiguing trebles?
  
 Would you be able to compare DT990 250ohm to HD650 in terms of being without amp? I've been made sure that the latter has no problems with portable media players but I couldn't make sure of the Beyer one.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Totoori

Yeah I think those are too expensive for me. I need to figure out what I want first before I go that high, I think.
  
 I don't even fully understand what you mean by the treble being recessed and subdued. I really wish I lived somewhere I could test something out.


----------



## Change is Good

Stay classy, Ron!


----------



## Hailin

fightcat said:


> Yeah, I've read it now, I reserved a a couple of months old second hand one for about 350$ (in Turkey a brand new goes for 650$). Should I be disappointed with my decision? Should I go and get myself a DT990 Pro instead for which I've heard fatiguing trebles?
> 
> Would you be able to compare DT990 250ohm to HD650 in terms of being without amp? I've been made sure that the latter has no problems with portable media players but I couldn't make sure of the Beyer one.
> 
> Thanks.



You need an amp for both of those headphones. I have never heard the Senns but with all the reading I have done the HD650 is one behind the hd800 as one of the most picky hard to drive dynamic headphones on the market. When MLE reviewed them I believe he was using an AudioGD Amp to drive them. AGD amps are known for gobs of power for a fair price. 
The Beyer will be loud but the bass will be a sloppy gross mess. If you want to hear what a Beyer DT990pro sounds like with no need For an amp get a Superlux 668b or Samson 850. Only big differences will be the DT will have better bass and better clarity both things u won't notice without an amp or without owning both. 
I am going to hit the MA900 hype train as well. They are fantastic out of everything.
I appreciate so many new people to the hobby. Three things you have to remember. We can't tell you how you are going to hear. (I think the HD598 is the biggest soundstage I have heard, many would disagree and say it is the Sony MA900 or AKG K701. Soundstage isn't everything.) You should always buy from a trusted website with a good return policy, sometimes the extra you pay will be worth it. You may have to listen to multiple headphones before you even understand what you truly want. Having multiple pairs is never a bad thing.


----------



## Evshrug

^ this
A lot of good advice and a good way to frame perspective in Hailin's post there. Just to add to reading comprehension, "The Beyer will [get] loud enough [without a separate amp like a FiiO E09k,] but the the bass will be a sloppy gross mess."
I really like when you wrote "We can't tell you how you will hear" and "get from a trusted site with a good return policy," these go hand in hand and will go a long way in making each person happy and in the long run, save money!

One thing that I've noticed... Of the higher fidelity headphones, the way output impedance affects Sennheisers' headphones seems actually *a*typical; most of the headphones I own or have tried, even the V-MODA M-100, have very linear (not-changing) response to higher output impedances on amps. I looked at the Beyer DT880 too, and that didn't change much either by impedance. This isn't to say Sennheiser makes bad headphones, but it does lend credence to your statement that they're picky about amp synergy.

What, if you don't mind asking, was the PortaPro safety mod?


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> ^ this
> A lot of good advice and a good way to frame perspective in Hailin's post there. Just to add to reading comprehension, "The Beyer will [get] loud enough [without a separate amp like a FiiO E09k,] but the the bass will be a sloppy gross mess."
> I really like when you wrote "We can't tell you how you will hear" and "get from a trusted site with a good return policy," these go hand in hand and will go a long way in making each person happy and in the long run, save money!
> 
> ...


 

 I have noticed Senns are a bit picky with output impedances as well. I found Beyers to sound drastically different on tube amps compared to SS amps some reason, honestly I won't touch a Beyer unless it's on a tube amp. AKGs have just been picky in my experience, they don't need that much power, they just need enough power, but finding that synergy is key.


----------



## jincuteguy

What about the T90? is it good for gaming? I dont care about the price.


----------



## miceblue

Dayum. I'm stoked for this.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za1t4vtf7-M[/video]


For people who still play Super Smash Brothers. XD


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Stay classy, Ron!


 
  
  
 I was confused why you posted this, but I just now noticed the Q701s.


----------



## chicolom

jincuteguy said:


> What about the T90? is it good for gaming? I dont care about the price.


 
  
 Yes, it is.


----------



## NamelessPFG

fightcat said:


> Yeah, I've read it now, I reserved a a couple of months old second hand one for about 350$ (in Turkey a brand new goes for 650$). Should I be disappointed with my decision? Should I go and get myself a DT990 Pro instead for which I've heard fatiguing trebles?
> Would you be able to compare DT990 250ohm to HD650 in terms of being without amp? I've been made sure that the latter has no problems with portable media players but I couldn't make sure of the Beyer one.


 
  
 Seems like a decent price for an HD650, given where you live.
  
 I can't compare two headphones I've never heard at all. Seriously, I've never heard an AKG, Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser set, let alone the ones that everyone keeps talking about.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hailin, the Ad700 has the largest soundstage I have ever heard, bar none. Followed by old K701, Q701, MA900, HD598.

The electrostats had a large soundstage as well, but more natural that huge.

*BTW GUYS, MAX PAYNE 3 IS $3.19 ON STEAM. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET THAT GAME. That game is fantastic.*


----------



## catspaw

I loved the first one, but from there the others lost almost all its appeal 8(.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only played Max Payne 3, and it was stellar. I don't have nostalgia holding me back.


----------



## Hailin

mad lust envy said:


> Hailin, the Ad700 has the largest soundstage I have ever heard, bar none. Followed by old K701, Q701, MA900, HD598.
> 
> The electrostats had a large soundstage as well, but more natural that huge.
> 
> *BTW GUYS, MAX PAYNE 3 IS $3.19 ON STEAM. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET THAT GAME. That game is fantastic.*


 
 Sorry about that I totally forgot about the AD700 and electrostats.( I have never owned a pair.) I think I got my point across though.


evshrug said:


> ^ this
> A lot of good advice and a good way to frame perspective in Hailin's post there. Just to add to reading comprehension, "The Beyer will [get] loud enough [without a separate amp like a FiiO E09k,] but the the bass will be a sloppy gross mess."
> I really like when you wrote "We can't tell you how you will hear" and "get from a trusted site with a good return policy," these go hand in hand and will go a long way in making each person happy and in the long run, save money!
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the edits. Typing before thinking again. lol


----------



## catspaw

mad lust envy said:


> I only played Max Payne 3, and it was stellar. I don't have nostalgia holding me back.


 
 Its not really about nostalgia (im sure part of it is but not the real reason), its more that max payne 3 felt a bit like CoD or similar, no connection to the main character.
 Few games nowdays grab me by the balls with an amzing story but from time to time its there (Deux ex Human revolution for example).
  
 A shooter needs to have at least something that impress me enought to keep playing it (Like the brutality of Warhammer space marine, the world of mass effect, the atmosphere of fallout 3/bioshock, the realism of crysis 1 and crysis warhead, etc), if not after 2-3 hours it gets a bit tedious .
  
 I mean... Its like playing baldurs gate and then moving to neverwinternights... it was better in some aspects but really terrible in others. Now Baldurs gate to Dragon age Origins... Now we are talking .
  
 The one thing that is great about nowdays games is sound quality. In most cases its nothing short of amazing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Peggle 2 just released on Xbox One. OH HOW MUCH I HATE THIS TIMED EXCLUSIVE CRAP. I NEED MY PEGGLE FIX, DAMMIT. LUCKY BASTARDS.


----------



## martin vegas

Just bought the arcam R dac to go with my sennheiser headset..i will tell you how it sounds in a while!


----------



## MJ INC

Hey guys, just joined the site (mainly for this thread) and wanted to thank everyone for all the helpful contributions.  I'm an avid gamer on both current gen consoles and am getting my ps4 on Friday.  I currently have a tritton AX Pro which I can't say I'm too happy with and also my out of the box amp/speaker system.  I'm looking to upgrade for my multiplayer fps action(mainly bf4 but I also see myself getting an Xbox 1 for titanfall, the next gen Halo and destiny on either console).  At the moment I'm in a bit of a quandary.  I live in South Africa so getting the top end equipment that is mentioned here tends to be a bit of a mission though Amazon, Ebay and a few other places do ship stuff here.  I'm trying to decide whether to get the Skullcandy Plyr 1(which Amazon will send) and will be really easy to sort out or go down the more complicated route of getting an astro mix amp pro off ebay and then getting a good set of headphones like the Philips X1 or the sony MA900 with a V-Moda BoomPro gaming mic.  I like the idea of the mixamp as it gives me the freedom to upgrade by getting a nice amp for headphones or upgrading my headphones further down the line. Will the difference in sound quality be worth extra work and expense?


----------



## AxelCloris

mj inc said:


> Hey guys, just joined the site (mainly for this thread) and wanted to thank everyone for all the helpful contributions.  I'm an avid gamer on both current gen consoles and am getting my ps4 on Friday.  I currently have a tritton AX Pro which I can't say I'm too happy with and also my out of the box amp/speaker system.  I'm looking to upgrade for my multiplayer fps action(mainly bf4 but I also see myself getting an Xbox 1 for titanfall, the next gen Halo and destiny on either console).  At the moment I'm in a bit of a quandary.  I live in South Africa so getting the top end equipment that is mentioned here tends to be a bit of a mission though Amazon, Ebay and a few other places do ship stuff here.  I'm trying to decide whether to get the Skullcandy Plyr 1(which Amazon will send) and will be really easy to sort out or go down the more complicated route of getting an astro mix amp pro off ebay and then getting a good set of headphones like the Philips X1 or the sony MA900 with a V-Moda BoomPro gaming mic.  I like the idea of the mixamp as it gives me the freedom to upgrade by getting a nice amp for headphones or upgrading my headphones further down the line. Will the difference in sound quality be worth extra work and expense?


 
  
 You'll have an issue trying to use the MA900 with the V-Moda cable. Unfortunately the cable is non-removable on the MA900; no matter how much I wish otherwise. It'll work well with the X1 as I've seen a few people post about the combo working for them. I've never heard the Plyr but as I understand it's closed, so you should find better detail and positional queues with an open headphone. That said, closed headphones offer isolation and the Plyr does seem like a decent all-in-one setup. Going the Mixamp route lets you upgrade your system easily as you've said. I've owned both a wired and wireless Mixamp and both were great, allowing me to change headphones/amps whenever I wanted. If you're looking for a "future proof" system, I feel the time and financial investment into the Mixamp is a better path. Ultimately that decision is up to you.
  
 Also, welcome officially to Head-Fi. Sorry about your wallet and all that jazz.


----------



## Evshrug

hailin said:


> Thanks for the edits. Typing before thinking again. lol



I totally didn't even realize I did any editing, I just typed from memory. Much of the time, my spelling and grammar is nothing to write home about. I just genuinely thought you made a good summary of points.



mad lust envy said:


> Hailin, the Ad700 has the largest soundstage I have ever heard, bar none. Followed by old K701, Q701, MA900, HD598.
> 
> The electrostats had a large soundstage as well, but more natural that huge.
> 
> *BTW GUYS, MAX PAYNE 3 IS $3.19 ON STEAM. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET THAT GAME. That game is fantastic.*



Hnnnnnnngh!


----------



## chicolom

Hmm.  Max Payne 3 shows $19.99 for me. 
  
 I did already buy Max Payne 1, 2, & 3 _last week_ for $6.99 though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Hmm.  Max Payne 3 shows $19.99 for me.
> 
> I did already buy Max Payne 1, 2, & 3 _last week_ for $6.99 though.




http://www.dealzon.com/deals/max-payne-3

Always check Dealzon. They list steam, origin, gamefly, green man gaming, and all the sales you can find....


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm considering tossing Skyrim back on my computer and installing that multiplayer mod. I'm curious how much it would change the feel of the game.


----------



## martin vegas

Ending up getting the arcam r dac wireless version..it works with my iphone with free app and with the free wireless dongle works from my pc over wifi..i have it plugged into my xbox in the bedroom(pc's downstairs) with my sennheiser headset and it goes through my Cambridge audio amp and wharfedale speakers for watching youtube catch up tv..it's much better than the other two dongles(dacmagic xs and dragonfly) by a long margin..not harsh sounding and the sound stage is much bigger with separation of instruments and you can hear things that you couldn't here before..peoples voices when they are talking on youtube are much more natural sounding..it's just a much better sound altogether..glad I got it now..this one definitely won't be going back!


----------



## davidsh

How's this thread holding up? Thought I'd share that I finally got a xonar u3, using digital out to my DAD DAC05 which I use with my Stax T1 amp. Using my newly aqcuired Sigmas (normal bias). That headphone must be a gamers dream! Skyrim sounds amazing so far, magnificent.


----------



## Beatwolf

Just got a Xonar Essence ST. Sound is really great with my also new 990 pro´s. Except the treble is a bit much sometimes but I´m getting used to it I guess. 
 Not sure about Dolby Headphone. Voices sound a bit as if they are coming from behind or around me. But so far I´ve only tried AC3. Anything else I should do apart form enabling DH in the Sonar control panel?
  
 Also I´m looking to get an extension cord, would a phono 6,3mm male to female plug be the way to go right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You need to make sure that the Xonar U3 in the control panel (not the soft ware panel) is set to 7.1.


----------



## PurpleAngel

beatwolf said:


> Just got a Xonar Essence ST. Sound is really great with my also new 990 pro´s. Except the treble is a bit much sometimes but I´m getting used to it I guess.
> Not sure about Dolby Headphone. Voices sound a bit as if they are coming from behind or around me. But so far I´ve only tried AC3. Anything else I should do apart form enabling DH in the Sonar control panel?
> 
> Also I´m looking to get an extension cord, would a phono 6,3mm male to female plug be the way to go right?


 

 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS
 Are you using the 64-300 gain setting?


----------



## mckenziepiping

I see the Beyerdynamic DT990 made it into your top list. Have you heard/seen the new T70p by Beyer or have any idea as to how they compare?


----------



## PurpleAngel

mckenziepiping said:


> I see the Beyerdynamic DT990 made it into your top list. Have you heard/seen the new T70p by Beyer or have any idea as to how they compare?


 
 The DT990 Pro 250-Ohm are not really at the "top of the list", It's just the easiest way to list the headphones.
 (The DT770s are good all around headphones, but my ATH-A900X are better for music)
 The Beyerdynamic T70 (250-Ohm) do sound really nice, great sound quality, not a headphone for a basshead.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> *BTW GUYS, MAX PAYNE 3 IS $3.19 ON STEAM. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, GET THAT GAME. That game is fantastic.*


 
  
 And to think I know a friend who absolutely *HATES* that game, particularly by contrast to how much he loves Max Payne 1 and 2.
  
 By comparison, he can at least get some fun out of DmC, even if he recognizes it for the travesty it is for another one of his beloved franchises.
  
 Yeah, tastes in video games are a funny thing...


----------



## catspaw

namelesspfg said:


> And to think I know a friend who absolutely *HATES* that game, particularly by contrast to how much he loves Max Payne 1 and 2.
> 
> By comparison, he can at least get some fun out of DmC, even if he recognizes it for the travesty it is for another one of his beloved franchises.
> 
> Yeah, tastes in video games are a funny thing...


 
 I doubt he "hates" it. Probably just dosent like it like me .


----------



## davidsh

mad lust envy said:


> You need to make sure that the Xonar U3 in the control panel (not the soft ware panel) is set to 7.1.



Me? Guess I just launch the control panel in the task bar and everything seems to work very well.


----------



## miceblue

STAX x Wii
Sure, why not? XD


----------



## Beatwolf

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS
> Are you using the 64-300 gain setting?


 
 Yep disabled in the BIOS. I hade the highest options selected, as recommended in the OP. But I should selecct the 64-300 I guess, since the 990´s are 250 ohm? It does actually sound ok, but for music I prefer having DH switched off. Looking forward to doing some more gaming with it! Now I just need to figure out how to connect my Creative Gigaworks II loudspeakers to the card (yes yes I know, Creative product on a hifi fourm and all that
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Setting the gain on it that high has nothing to do with impedance. It's a stupid setting that should always be set to the highest level, since all it's doing is limiting the volume of the device. There is no such thing has changing an amp's output impedance by software. It's just throttling the volume.

Unless you have a headphone so sensitive that even one touch of the volume varies the decibels greatly, it's not worth using.


----------



## Beatwolf

Ok thx for that info will keep it on the highest settings then. Any idea on how to connect the Creative Gigaoworks 2 Speakers to the card? They use a minijack to minijack cable only it seems. Could I use a mini jack to phono splitter ?


----------



## davidsh

How I wish the EQ on the u3 was better... Actually it is rubish.


----------



## SaLX

@miceblue - you can afford a Stax but have a crappy old TV?? Lol


----------



## davidsh

salx said:


> @miceblue - you can afford a Stax but have a crappy old TV?? Lol


 
 Is all about priorities. It just shows his dedication.


----------



## martin vegas

miceblue said:


> STAX x Wii
> Sure, why not? XD


 
 Wire city!


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> @miceblue - you can afford a Stax but have a crappy old TV?? Lol



It may not be 1080p HD, but CRT televisions are sought after by fighting game junkies because they have almost zero input lag. Since Miceblue is playing a fighting game (with a resurrection mod to give an old game new tricks), it stands to reason that's what he's going for.


----------



## SaLX

@Evs - good point, but selling off your children for medical experiments (note the lone teddy bear) to fund your Stax addiction is maybe pushing the envelope a little


----------



## AxelCloris

salx said:


> @Evs - good point, but selling off your children for medical experiments (note the lone teddy bear) to fund your Stax addiction is maybe pushing the envelope a little


 
  
 The teddy is Miceblue's fighting coach. Note the blank, emotionless, almost dead smile on its face. That's a sure sign of a disappointed instructor if I ever saw one.


----------



## miceblue

A 480p game also doesn't look so hot on larger displays. XD

But yeah, it's quite the wire mess over there with cables running in every direction.


----------



## SaLX

axelcloris said:


> The teddy is Miceblue's fighting coach. Note the blank, emotionless, almost dead smile on its face. That's a sure sign of a disappointed instructor if I ever saw one.


 
 It's the missing ear that breaks my heart..... are Stax's really that worth it?


----------



## Beatwolf

mad lust envy said:


> You need to make sure that the Xonar U3 in the control panel (not the soft ware panel) is set to 7.1.


 
  
 Can´t seem to find this one. It´s not the '7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter' in Xonar Audio Center right?


----------



## SaLX

Beat -- that's the Windows Sound CP - click on the speaker icon / playback on the taskbar.


----------



## NamelessPFG

catspaw said:


> I doubt he "hates" it. Probably just dosent like it like me .


 
  
 Oh, trust me, I'm using his term of choice when I say "hates".
  


miceblue said:


> STAX x Wii
> Sure, why not? XD


 
  
 Hey, now you've got the right headphones to do SSBB's epic soundtrack justice!
  
 (And about the CRT, I actually do know a guy here at the uni game room who lugs a small CRT TV into the room because the LG HDTVs here have terrible input lag and are frequently occupied.
  
 Still, nobody should talk smack about CRTs, especially for gaming. My Sony GDM-FW900 curbstomps just about any flat-panel ever made, and it's a decade old!...but that's a professional monitor, not an SDTV.)
  


salx said:


> are Stax's really that worth it?


 
  
 If you can afford it? *YES.* Welcome to mind-blowing clarity.
  
 However, the main barrier to entry is the amp side of things. If you've got a good speaker amp handy, like an old integrated receiver, you can get a vintage Stax setup with an SRD-6 or SRD-7 for $300 or less on eBay quite frequently.


----------



## davidsh

namelesspfg said:


> salx said:
> 
> 
> > are Stax's really that worth it?
> ...


 
 Does that kind of input lagg actually matter? Anyway, Stax are well, well worth it if you like the type of sound of 'stats.


----------



## Murder Mike

davidsh said:


> Does that kind of input lagg actually matter?


 
 If you're looking to do frame perfect moves, yes, it does.


----------



## martin vegas

The arcam R dac sounds good for gaming with my sennheiser headset over rca..the sound stage is nice and wide..when the ship beaches on bf4's Paracel *Storm the horn sounds good..i got the r dac at a good price because the irdac has just been released..now all I am doing is waiting for sennheiser to bring out a new headset with dolby atmos!*


----------



## Beatwolf

salx said:


> Beat -- that's the Windows Sound CP - click on the speaker icon / playback on the taskbar.


 
 Ah of course under 'Configure'   Only annoying thing so far, by upgrading to a proper sound card is that I can´t split the output and change seamlessly to my speakers, now I also have to change to software settings. But I guess I will be using them less anyway now.


----------



## Change is Good

2 more days and the semester is over!

PS4 binge all winter break


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> 2 more days and the semester is over!
> 
> PS4 binge all winter break


 
  
 Stream it! Give me stuff to watch at work.


----------



## vsha

I've been trying to get the AH-D7000 for the past few weeks but they've been pretty hard to come by. Does anyone know if the AH-D7100 is more or less as good as the AH-D7000? While I'm not a fan of the new aesthetics, if there are no major sonic differences I would love to buy them and be done with it.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, my wallet is DEAD! I did manage, however to sell those pads.
  
 Time to sell a few more things...


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Stream it! Give me stuff to watch at work.


----------



## kellte2

Anyone with a ps4 notice an especially noisy USB port for audio with the mixamp?  If I turn up my m-stage, I can definitely hear an extra electrical hiss that is not present when using the Xbox 360 S or my airport router.  
  
 Only noticeable during silence while using my relatively powerful amp, but it is definitely there...


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> 2 more days and the semester is over!
> 
> PS4 binge all winter break


 
  
  


Spoiler: Spoiler!


----------



## miceblue

chicolom said:


> change is good said:
> 
> 
> > 2 more days and the semester is over!
> ...



Hahaha, nice .gif!


----------



## RookieSound

Does anyone know if the viio e18 can use Dolby headphone from a console,or another product that can? or do I have to use something like the astro mix-amp?


----------



## AxelCloris

rookiesound said:


> Does anyone know if the viio e18 can use Dolby headphone from a console,or another product that can? or do I have to use something like the astro mix-amp?


 
  
 Two completely different types of devices. The Fiio E18 is a USB DAC/amp designed for android phones. It doesn't process Dolby Headphone. The Astro Mixamp is a Dolby Headphone surround sound processor. If you're looking for an alternative to the Mixamp, there are a couple out there. You could get a Turtle Beach DSS. The v1 uses DH. You could also look into similar items like the Recon3D USB which doesn't use DH but has THX TrueStudio Pro.


----------



## chicolom

rookiesound said:


> Does anyone know if the viio e18 can use Dolby headphone from a console,or another product that can? or do I have to use something like the astro mix-amp?


 
  
 It can amp a signal from another device, but you can't use the E18's DAC and get Dolby Headphone _from a console_ (you can from PC though).
  
 The reason it's not possible on consoles is because all of the third party devices (Mixamp, DSS, etc.) that process Dolby Headphone for consoles only have_ analog outputs_.  So that means _they_ have to function as the DAC.  Which means your E18 doesn't get to function as a DAC.  You can still use it as an amp if you want.


----------



## miceblue

I know nothing about Dolby stuff, like at all really.

When a game is labeled to have "Dolby Pro Logic II," what does that mean?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-pro-logic-ii-details.html
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/home-theater/dolby-pro-logic-II.html

Does that mean a DSP technology is involved?


----------



## RookieSound

chicolom said:


> It can amp a signal from another device, but you can't use the E18's DAC and get Dolby Headphone _from a console_ (you can from PC though).
> 
> The reason it's not possible on consoles is because all of the third party devices (Mixamp, DSS, etc.) that process Dolby Headphone for consoles only have_ analog outputs_.  So that means _they_ have to function as the DAC.  Which means your E18 doesn't get to function as a DAC.  You can still use it as an amp if you want.


 
  


axelcloris said:


> Two completely different types of devices. The Fiio E18 is a USB DAC/amp designed for android phones. It doesn't process Dolby Headphone. The Astro Mixamp is a Dolby Headphone surround sound processor. If you're looking for an alternative to the Mixamp, there are a couple out there. You could get a Turtle Beach DSS. The v1 uses DH. You could also look into similar items like the Recon3D USB which doesn't use DH but has THX TrueStudio Pro.


 

 Thanks for the reply's. Damn I wish there was something that small that could do every thing 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
 How are you guys set up? if you use consoles.


----------



## Change is Good

PS4 > mixamp > m-stage > srh1840


----------



## AxelCloris

rookiesound said:


> Thanks for the reply's. Damn I wish there was something that small that could do every thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 When I had my consoles, I went console > mixamp > amp > headphones.
  
 Now it's computer > Recon3D > amp > headphones


----------



## RookieSound

axelcloris said:


> When I had my consoles, I went console > mixamp > amp > headphones.
> 
> Now it's computer > Recon3D > amp > headphones


 
  


change is good said:


> PS4 > mixamp > m-stage > srh1840


 

 Thanks guys, it seems I have to get a mixamp then. I just returned a pheobus soundcard, is there a way to use a pc soundcard to decode the surround signal? from a console I mean.


----------



## nopeavi

Hey guys, been looking for some headphones / headsets for gaming purposes.
  
 Honestly I prefer a headset for convenience because I have an astro mixamp,  but I don't mind experimenting.
  
 Pricing for me probably caps out at ~$160
 Features in order of Importance to me:
  
 Soundstage: 9-10
 Comfort:7-9
 Mic Quality: 6-9
 Musicality: 6-7
  
 I don't have a soundcard, so I probably can't Power most things past this price threshold.
 I play / focus on playing a bunch of Shooters with positional ques.
 I program / do alot of computer work (includes voicework), so i may be on computers for multiple hours which is why comfort/mic qual is intended.
 Of course music enjoyment would be good but probably not the focus.
  
 Currently thinking on the Sennheiser PC 360 for these uses.
 Would like recommendations, have no experience on Mic quality of Mod mics/other options which could free up different headphones.


----------



## davidsh

miceblue said:


> I know nothing about Dolby stuff, like at all really.
> 
> When a game is labeled to have "Dolby Pro Logic II," what does that mean?
> 
> ...


 
 Dolby pro logic is jsut upmixing of 2 channels to 7.1 channels. Not good for anything


----------



## miceblue

davidsh said:


> miceblue said:
> 
> 
> > I know nothing about Dolby stuff, like at all really.
> ...



Huh, okay. Interesting to note. The specs say 5.1, but it's still up-mixing. Maybe I'll see what it sounds like with headphones. I've been using my TV's on-board speakers pretty much my whole console gaming career. XD


----------



## miceblue

- deleted -


----------



## miceblue

- deleted -


----------



## miceblue

- deleted -


----------



## davidsh

Lulz, quadriple post


----------



## AxelCloris

Who wants a copy of Serious Sam 3: BFE on Steam?


----------



## miceblue

davidsh said:


> Lulz, quadriple post



Holy, What just happened? I might need to file a bug report. Firefox keeps deleting my text whenever I hit the reply button and asks me if I'm sure I want to leave the page.
Like so:


----------



## Evshrug

^ that is odd. Not sure why you get that. Have you cleared your cookies and cache?

At the least, you could delete the contents of your extra 3 posts, so it's easier to read the thread.


----------



## NamelessPFG

miceblue said:


> I know nothing about Dolby stuff, like at all really.
> 
> When a game is labeled to have "Dolby Pro Logic II," what does that mean?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dolby Pro Logic (II) is a means of encoding/matrixing extra surround channels into a two-channel signal, generally used for devices that can't bitstream Dolby Digital over S/PDIF and only have the two analog channels, mainly 5th-gen consoles, the GCN, the Wii, and even the PS2 (which, unlike the Xbox, only outputs Dolby Digital in pre-rendered cutscenes and doesn't seem to have the performance to encode Dolby Digital in real-time). They use some phase-shifting and other trickery to accomplish this; Wikipedia has the details, if you trust it.
  
 The main difference between Dolby Surround/Pro Logic and Dolby Pro Logic II seems to be how the rear channels are handled. Old Pro Logic only has one combined rear channel, but Pro Logic II has separate rear channels and the center channel (derived from information present in both front left and front right channels).
  
 Because they're not discrete channels like Dolby Digital or DTS, they are prone to crosstalk, degrading the quality a little, and a Dolby Pro Logic (II) decoder cannot detect such a signal automatically; it has to be manually set, which also means that you have to know whether or not the source is set for Pro Logic (II) output. (Simply put, if a game offers you "Mono", "Stereo" and "Surround" options, the "Surround" option is most likely a Pro Logic-encoded signal.)
  
 In other words, yes, there is a DSP involved to some extent due to the way the surround channels are encoded and decoded. You still won't get any extra positional cues without Dolby Headphone mixing the surround channels extracted from the Dolby Pro Logic II signal accordingly, though.
  
 My usual Pro Logic test thus far is Metroid Prime. It doesn't take long to get to an area where you can test out the positional cues, and they're surprisingly good.
  


davidsh said:


> Dolby pro logic is jsut upmixing of 2 channels to 7.1 channels. Not good for anything


 
  
 It's not a simple "speaker fill" for stereo signals like you're claiming it to be, particularly given my explanation above.


----------



## chicolom

davidsh said:


> Dolby pro logic is jsut upmixing of 2 channels to 7.1 channels.
> 
> *Not good for anything*


 
  
 I wouldn't say that. 
  
 It _is _good for older consoles and devices that are limited to 2 channel output (such as the Wii).  In those cases, where the device is limited to 2 channel output, Pro Logic II is the next best alternative to having true multi channel audio.  
  
 Basically, there's two kinds of Pro Logic:  One is where you take a plain 2 channel signal and expand it to 5.1.  This is what will happen if you try and use Pro Logic with any modern console, as they only have plain stereo tracks and aren't encoded for Pro Logic II (because they don't need to be, as they have actual 5.1 tracks and output).
  
 The _other _kind of Pro logic is where you actually encode your stereo track for Pro Logic II beforehand, then later decode it/expand it to multi-channel surround.  From Dolby: _"Stereo soundtracks, while maintaining compatibility with standard stereo playback, can also be encoded to deliver specific surround and localization effects when played through a Dolby Pro Logic II decoder."  _This is what devices like the Wii do.  When you encode a stereo track for Pro Logic, it adds certain spacial cues to the stereo signal that, when expanded later, do a more convincing job of emulating 5.1 surround than if you had just used a regular stereo signal as the source for that expansion.  
  
 Basically consoles like the Wii are aware of their limitation of only being able to output 2 channels, so as a partial workaround they choose to encode their stereo tracks with the Pro Logic II spatial cues.  It's obviously not as good as having true 5.1 channels, but it at least lets them upscale their 2 channel content to a 5.1 channel ouput (via any Pro Logic II decoding device such as a Home Theater AVR - or a _mixamp_) in a _more convincing_ matter than if they had just used a plain stereo signal. 
  
 So when you plug a 2 channel console like the Wii into a Mixamp, what happens is the Wii outputs its Pro Logic II encoded stereo signal to the mixamp, the Mixamp decodes that signal via its Pro Logic II decoder and simultaneously expands the signal to 5.1 (making use of those Pro Logic spatial cues in the process).  Finally the Mixamp takes that freshly upscaled 5.1 channel signal and encodes that into Dolby Headphone (a 2 channel stereo signal for use with your headphones).  On a modern console with Dolby Digital 5.1 output, none of those Pro Logic II steps are needed.  The console simply outputs DD 5.1 directly to the Mixamp, the Mixamp takes those 5 channels and converts them into Dolby Headphone, and you're good to go.
  
  
 Here is a description from Dolby about Pro Logic II as it pertains to gaming.
 http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/gaming/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html
  
  
  
 For modern gaming, Pro Logic II is not needed, as games and consoles are no longer limited to 2 channel output (like they were with the Wii, PS2, Gamecube, etc).  The game audio in modern consoles already support multi channel 5.1 surround, and the consoles are capable of multi-channel output already (Dolby Digital 5.1, etc).  So there is _no need_ to use Pro Logic, either to embed spatial cues into stereo tracks or even expand those stereo trackis in the first place.  Using Pro Logic would be unnecessary and inferior to using the_ already-there_ 5.1 surround sound.
  
 So if your using Pro logic with a modern console, your doing it wrong.


----------



## Sanctuary

Sometime next year I'm going to be buying an additional pair of "all rounder" headphones to be used for gaming, music as well as movies.  I've only owned the Ultrasone 900s as well as the Beyerdynamic 880DT Premium (600hz) in terms of audiophile level headphones are concerned.  Out of every set I've ever been able to listen to, so far I've found the 880DTs to be some of the most balanced, while I absolutely cannot stand the Ultrasones for anything.  The treble is just too much on those.  I think the 880DTs are also some of the most comfortable (modded them with the lambskin pads too) and do an admiral job for most situations, although sometimes when using Dolby Headphone, the positional cues just seem "off".  Although that might just be the sound source, because most everything with a DTS track played through my Xonar just sounds great, especially when using the modified 7.1 virtualization drivers.

 Anyway, could the *K702 65th Anniversary Edition* be considered an evolutionary step up from the Beyers, or would the jump to them sound somewhat alien?  From the review in this thread, they kind of seem to have everything that I like about the Beyers...just more of it, with everything just done better overall.  I prefer the soundstage to be as close to neutral as possible without an overemphasis on either bass or treble, but not terribly lacking in either as well.  It's also kind of hard for me to really tell the difference between a "Fun" sounding headphone and a "Competitive" one, because to me it's the same thing.  I want them to sound great while also having really good accuracy, not one at the sake of the other.
  


> So I gotta say, the Pro 900 is lethal with Dolby Headphone. They are stupid awesome for gaming.


 
  
 This is probably one of the opinions that I couldn't possibly agree less with.  Not only are they not good sounding with Dolby Headphone (used them with various DH setups/amps) to me, but the almost recessed to the point of not existing mids are just awful on these thanks to the bass and glass shattering highs drowning them out.  They are simply painful for me to listen to after about thirty minutes, especially if it's any kind of audio with gunfire.  I know everyone hears things slightly different, but these headphones have been nothing but an awful experience for me and probably the biggest waste of money I've ever spent on a luxury item.  I bought them due to all of the mega praise they received in their dedicated thread and all of the claims that "after 60000 hours of burn in they sound fantastic" and with X mod and recabling etc/whatever that the mids are no longer recessed.  I guess if you never listen to vocals and only dubstep or dance, you wouldn't really notice.

 To me, the best thing about them are explosions.  When it comes to that, these are just great.  But then you have to deal with the obnoxious to the point of being painful high end, so they aren't worth it.


----------



## chicolom

I'm not sure any AKG can be considered an evolutionary step up from a Beyer.  They're sort of have two different house sounds.
  
 I haven't heard the DT880s in forever, but I imagine the Anniversary will be warmer sounding, with darker treble and thicker mids.
  
  
 Ultrasones tend to be very polarizing (not too suprising given their radical driver design/placement).


----------



## davisman

Since I got my black Friday he400s, I have been using the akg702 Annie's on my console setup. And it is Amazing for FPS's. I was using a pair of senn hd598s, and they are no slouches, but the Annie's just pinpoint everything with ease. They also have enough bass to be fun, when immersion is the goal.


----------



## miceblue

namelesspfg said:


> Spoiler: Good explanation of Dolby technology
> 
> 
> 
> ...






chicolom said:


> Spoiler: Good explanation of Dolby technology
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, thanks for the great explanation guys! That was really helpful.
I'm looking at the Wii games I have and a lot of them have the Pro Logic II technology, even Wii Sports. I've really been missing out on this stuff haven't I? :-o


----------



## Sanctuary

chicolom said:


> I'm not sure any AKG can be considered an evolutionary step up from a Beyer.  They're sort of have two different house sounds.
> 
> I haven't heard the DT880s in forever, but I imagine the Anniversary will be warmer sounding, with darker treble and thicker mids.
> 
> ...


 

 It's a shame that I don't live in an area where I have access to all of the various headphones that I want to try out before buying.  I prefer a neutral sound (it's what I've adjusted to over the past three years with headphones as well as IEMs), but it's not like I really need to permanently replace the 880s or anything.  I initially came from a (heavily EQd, while I use no EQ on anything now) generic set of Sennheisers that were on the warm side and pretty fantastic for vocals, so I'm not completely adverse to it.  What do you mean by darker treble though, slightly muted or muffled sounding?  If so, as long as it's not so dark that it affects clarity too much, I'm not sure that would particularly be too much of an issue for me either.  I'd rather the highs be neutral or even slightly muted as opposed to being overly bright.

 Also, is there any drastic differences between the K702 and the K712 sound wise?


----------



## kman1211

sanctuary said:


> It's a shame that I don't live in an area where I have access to all of the various headphones that I want to try out before buying.  I prefer a neutral sound (it's what I've adjusted to over the past three years with headphones as well as IEMs), but it's not like I really need to permanently replace the 880s or anything.  I initially came from a (heavily EQd, while I use no EQ on anything now) generic set of Sennheisers that were on the warm side and pretty fantastic for vocals, so I'm not completely adverse to it.  What do you mean by darker treble though, slightly muted or muffled sounding?  If so, as long as it's not so dark that it affects clarity too much, I'm not sure that would particularly be too much of an issue for me either.  I'd rather the highs be neutral or even slightly muted as opposed to being overly bright.


 
  

 The DT 880s are what I consider somewhat bright due to the 8-10khz spike they have as well as most other Beyers have. I wouldn't call them muted of muffled. I found AKGs to have a great sense of clarity even on the darker or more neutral pairs such as the K702 Annies, K712, or K612.
  
 The K712 is a bit warmer than the Annies, I found the K712 a tad brighter in the upper treble. I also found the K712 slightly more refined. It's not a drastic difference, I would just go for the cheaper of the two.


----------



## chicolom

kman1211 said:


> I wouldn't call them muted of muffled. I found AKGs to have a great sense of clarity even on the darker or more neutral pairs such as the K702 Annies, K712, or K612.
> 
> It's not a drastic difference, I would just go for the cheaper of the two.


 
  
 Pretty much what kman said.
  
 I prefer the K712 slightly over the Anniversaries, but they're fairly similar.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

I've owned a Logitech G35 for a few years now, and it's good, but it's a bit worn and the bass distorts playing videos on flash based videos sometimes (like youtube), so I kind of want to upgrade to something newer. I've been eyeing the Corsair Vengeance 1500v2 and the Logitech G430, I'm leaning towards the corsair but I trust you guys more than I for audio, so any input on the two of those?


----------



## Sanctuary

kman1211 said:


> The DT 880s are what I consider somewhat bright due to the 8-10khz spike they have as well as most other Beyers have. I wouldn't call them muted of muffled. I found AKGs to have a great sense of clarity even on the darker or more neutral pairs such as the K702 Annies, K712, or K612.
> 
> The K712 is a bit warmer than the Annies, I found the K712 a tad brighter in the upper treble. I also found the K712 slightly more refined. It's not a drastic difference, I would just go for the cheaper of the two.


 

 The padding seems to make quite a bit of difference in brightness though.  With the original 880 pads, I would agree that they are somewhat bright, but not overly so to me.  I'm using the much thicker lambskin pads though, and it does have quite an effect overall on their tone.  So how is the bass on the K702/K12 compared to the 880s?  I've never listened to any AKG phones before, but it looks like the biggest complaint with them until the K702 was that they were almost univerally lacking bass.  I don't want bass heavy headphones, but I want something that outputs at least what the 880 is already capable of.  Which isn't really too much (yet), but they don't sound anemic either.


----------



## kman1211

sanctuary said:


> The padding seems to make quite a bit of difference in brightness though.  With the original 880 pads, I would agree that they are somewhat bright, but not overly so to me.  I'm using the much thicker lamb skin pads though, and it does have quite an effect overall on their tone.  So how is the bass on the K702/K12 compared to the 880s?  I've never listened to any AKG phones before, but it looks like the biggest complaint with them until the K702 was that they were almost univerally lacking bass.  I don't want bass heavy headphones, but I want something that outputs at least what the 880 is already capable of.  Which isn't really too much (yet), but they don't sound anemic either.


 
  
 That is true, the stock pads do make it somewhat bright. I haven't heard the DT 880 in a while so I can't compare them, so I'll just describe the AKGs bass. Well I found the bass present and with a thickish and solid texture they also extend deep, they are present and you can feel the bass but it isn't overpowering, it's not anemic at all, although it isn't what I call a punchy bass. The bass presentation is probably quite different than what you are used to. Of course the bass levels is also a bit system dependent as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Red Faction: Armageddon has some AMAAAAAAAAZING positional cues. Probably the best game I've heard for virtual surround testing.

Many things in the environment is destructible, and with this nano forge thing, you can rebuild it all back. Thing is, when you rebuild it, it leaves sound cues as it's building.

Truly remarkable immersion in that game. Everything has sound cues. The buildings collapsing, the explosions, etc. Tried it with both DH and THX TruStudio.

I'll probably use this game as my benchmark for positional cue testing of headphones.. 

Got it on steam for around $4. I'm sure the consoles have a demo for the game too.


----------



## SaLX

Great game - I loved the detail whereby the sound changed if you're running low on bullets - if I remember right, the gun felt and sounded lighter. Does anybody know what sound engine this is based on - or is it just extra TLC on behalf of the devs?
  
 Nameless - we really ought to poll all the best games out there for sound - both for positioning and immersion. Also name the worst!! I'd vote BF4 for the 'Wall of Sound" Theatrical award which would cover both, probably at heavy cost of the former. Also soundtracks too... they're being released in their own right.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

mad lust envy said:


> Red Faction: Armageddon has some AMAAAAAAAAZING positional cues. Probably the best game I've heard for virtual surround testing.
> 
> Many things in the environment is destructible, and with this nano forge thing, you can rebuild it all back. Thing is, when you rebuild it, it leaves sound cues as it's building.
> 
> ...


 

 Nice, that game always intrigued me, I'll grab it cheap on steam on day I guess! Also, mind testing the Vengeance 1500v2? If you don't have it it's cool, seems like a good surround headset kinda would like some opinions on it so I can grab it for 70$ next time it goes that low


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the sound in the game is pretty remarkable.

The game is pretty standard third person shootin', but it's worth playing for the sound and destructible environments alone.

As for the Vengeance, unless someone sends it to me, doubt I'd ever test it.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Red Faction: Armageddon has some AMAAAAAAAAZING positional cues. Probably the best game I've heard for virtual surround testing.
> 
> Many things in the environment is destructible, and with this nano forge thing, you can rebuild it all back. Thing is, when you rebuild it, it leaves sound cues as it's building.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've had it in my library as one I plan to get around to eventually. Unfortunately I have a lot of those. 229 steam games currently in my library and I've touched probably 50 of them. But if they're that impressive then I'll be installing it tomorrow and giving it a play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The good thing about it is that you're basically in control of the sound cues. Wanna test explosions? destroy it. Reconstruct whatever you blew up, then do it again. So headphone testing should be a snap with that game.


----------



## chicolom

Dead Rising games are pretty good for testing positioning.  You can spin around slowly and listen for the position of all the different zombies and other sound effects in the game.


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> Nameless - we really ought to poll all the best games out there for sound - both for positioning and immersion. Also name the worst!! I'd vote BF4 for the 'Wall of Sound" Theatrical award which would cover both, probably at heavy cost of the former. Also soundtracks too... they're being released in their own right.


 
  
 Best games for sound? That's easy: the original Thief trilogy (The Dark Project/Gold, The Metal Age, Deadly Shadows)!
  
 It's a combination of excellent sound design and pinpoint positioning, which you're going to need if you want to sneak your way past things. No Soliton Radar System for you here!
  
 Other PC games from that era of DirectSound3D/OpenAL had the positioning down just fine, but Thief stands out because of its sound design adding to its sense of atmosphere, not just being a competitive gameplay advantage, but being critical to the game's immersion.
  
 Worst games for sound? Battlefield: Bad Company 2 is easily among them, and a grave insult to the series at that.
  
 Positioning? What positioning? All I heard was canned panning and no decisive sense of direction! I actually thought for a long time that the Frostbite engine just had terrible audio positioning until I tried Battlefield 3 during the $5 Origin sale and found that wasn't necessarily the case. Can't comment on Battlefield 4 yet.
  
 The actual effects and overall sound design are pretty good, it's just that they're all mixed so terribly. No setting I've adjusted can fix it.


----------



## martin vegas

What I would say about battlefield 4 is that you can't hear when things are coming up from behind you ..even a tank..waiting for a new headset from dolby to solve this problem!


----------



## Murder Mike

drunkentiger said:


> I've owned a Logitech G35 for a few years now, and it's good, but it's a bit worn and the bass distorts playing videos on flash based videos sometimes (like youtube), so I kind of want to upgrade to something newer. I've been eyeing the Corsair Vengeance 1500v2 and the Logitech G430, I'm leaning towards the corsair but I trust you guys more than I for audio, so any input on the two of those?


 
 From what I've heard, stay away from the Corsair. The v2 may have fixed the problems it had, so I don't know. There was a fairly favorable review for the G430  with an amp added to the chain posted a while back. From his experience they perform fairly poorly with just the USB soundcard alone. 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Posted by derbigpr
  
 So....I've bought a Logitech G430 headset. Don't ask me why, impulse purchase.  I payed like 100 dollars for it, and its the weirdest, most failed, but at the same time amazing product I've ever bought. Let me explain,  in the package you get the Headset, with a typical 3,5 mm headphone jack, and you get a small USB soundcard with a 3,5 mm output in it. The soundcard works with Logitech's own drivers that gives you ability to EQ sound, set up the 7.1 surround sound in detail...you can adjust each of the speakers, their loudness, etc. 
  
 Anyway, the headset and the USB sound card don't work properly together.  The headset is just to hard to power. Its 50 ohms and has 90 db/v sensitivity. It's almost as hard to get it loud as my Beyerdynamic T1's.  Ridiculous.  Plugged into a Musical Fidelity M1HPAP amp, I have to turn it up almost as far as with the T1's to get same loudness.  When plugged into the USB soundcard, its just not loud, at all. On the loudest setting, it barely on a decent usable volume level. And then when you play something dynamic or bass heavy, or you hear and explosion in a game or a movie, the headphone distorts, because it's not getting enough  power.  Pretty much, the package is useless. BUT, get this. When you plug the Logitech headphones in a headphone amp, man does it sound good. Seriously, for 100 dollars (60 or less in the US) these are actually seriously good headphones. They're quite balanced and very natural sounding. They naturally have a big soundstage, very good imaging and central image. They're not mid-bass heavy, but  are slightly sub-bass heavy. They have a thumping, deep bass, subwoofer like bass, not overly lifted though, still very tight and controlled.  
 So headphones on their own are worth the buy, but don't get the G430, get the G230 instead, they're identical. 
  
 Now to the star of the show.  The USB soundcard.  I have no clue what it does, how it does it, but this thing walks all over my Asus Xonar Essence ST soundcard. This thing can be worth 15-20 dollars most, but the surround sound, the feeling of space, the imaging, the depth of space around you, and the fact it does not significantly change the tonality of the sound when surround sound is enabled, is just amazing.  Quite simply put,  this is the best surround sound I've ever heard on headphones.  The good thing is, you can plug any headphone into it, since its 3,5 mm.  Even when I use my cheapest headphone, Sennheiser HD202, it turns them into a gaming and movie watching beasts. Soundstage and feeling of space, the experience and dynamics, the REALITY of the sound, the detail, everything about this USB stick is amazing. HD202 + Logitech USB sound card sound better in games than T1's or K701's plugged into the Asus ST with dolby headphone enabled. I don't know how, it just does.  Another thing, when you enable the dolby on Asus, it changes the sound. It changes tonality, for the worse. The Logitech drivers do it for better. Human voices actually sound MORE realistic with the surround enabled. It actually feels like a person is standing in front of you.  The behind surround channel are amazing.  You know the dolby headphone video on youtube with the match stick box shaking around you? You know that feeling of the sound coming directly behind you and then it goes down and back up? This is what this Logitech sound card does to EVERYTHING. It just makes it sound real, not different, doesn't change tonality too much, don't add loads of echo or boom like most surround sound effects do, it just takes the flat, boring sounds, and arranges them in a very precise virtual space around you. AND, it actually works with music, because it improves it. I was listening to some DSP jazz albums on the HD202's, and it sounds amazing. The resolution of the sound goes up, detail goes up, imaging is over the top, feeling of space insane, you can almost touch the instruments. I feel like my main headphone setup that consists of T1's M1HPAP and M1DAC was destroyed in anything surround sound related.
 Honestly, I would pay 100$ for the Logitech USB soundcard alone, because it beats any other soundcard or surround sound in headphones I've ever tried before. Sure it doesn't have a lot of power, but add a headphone amp between the headphones and the USB stick, and you have a winner.  So, what to take out of this....when you buy the Logitech G430 package, you get a great headphones and an AMAZING sound card, but they don't work properly together without the addition of the headphone amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Plenty users in German speaking forums already listen to their K812s. Read a few that like it over their HD 800 in terms of bass reproduction, even soundstage. We'll see.


----------



## zyrex

Hi guys,
  
 I want to buy Steelseries Siberia V2 but I need help.
  
 For gaming>=movies(really important)>>>>>>>music (actually don't care music performance) priority,
  
 1)If you compare it to Sharkoon X-Tatic S7 which one would you choose?
  
 2)For 100$ is there a better option?
  
 I would be glad if you help...


----------



## mikemav

If anyone is considering getting the Beyerdynamic MMX300 headset, send me a PM if you'd like a bargain (and know how to solder.) I have a set of these, which sounded really great for closed cans (and especially for a headset with nice integrated noise-canceling mic), but they don't get much use since my dog stepped on the cable and broke the 1/8" connector. I tried to put on a Rat Shack replacement but my skills soldering the tiny gauge wire these use are suspect at best, and one channel goes in and out sometimes when you handle the connector. Anyway my son is using them w/ a MixAmp now but it's overkill for what he needs. I'd like to get the Logitech G430 just for the USB sound card, and maybe let him use that headset w/ a Fiio amp I have if the MixAmp isn't enough to power them, and I'll try the USB card on my rig instead. So anyway, willing to get rid of these for a bargain if you have the skills to rewire the plug properly and could get more use out of an excellent closed headset then we do. This is just a feeler; not sure exactly how much I'd want or what's fair, but PM me if you might be interested in discussing more. Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone care to lend me an Asgard 2 or something soon? I have a headphone loan coming in soonish and I am in need of some powah.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone care to lend me an Asgard 2 or something soon? I have a headphone loan coming in soonish and I am in need of some powah.


 
  
 It's [Peanut Butter Jelly] time!


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> *Anyone care to lend me an Asgard 2 or something soon*? I have a headphone loan coming in soonish and I am in need of some powah.


 
  
 I wouldn't mind doing so... along with the 1840.
  
 I have to sell one of my items in classifieds, first, because I am DEAD broke... so can't ship anything at the moment.
  
 Or... if someone is willing to donate shipping costs for the good of this thread.................


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## Change is Good

When should it arrive? I'll try to come up with something and ship out the AG2 by then...
  
 And as for the 1840, would you rather wait until your done with the current review or send it with the AG2?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I wouldn't mind doing so... along with the 1840.
> 
> I have to sell one of my items in classifieds, first, because I am DEAD broke... so can't ship anything at the moment.
> 
> Or... if someone is willing to donate shipping costs for the good of this thread.................


 
  
 Hit me up in the PM. I'd be willing to fund shipping to MLE.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Hit me up in the PM. I'd be willing to fund shipping to MLE.


 
  
 Very classy of you, Axel!


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Plenty users in German speaking forums already listen to their K812s. Read a few that like it over their HD 800 in terms of bass reproduction, *even soundstage*. We'll see.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

I know MLE hasn't, but has anyone tried the full size Momentums enough to know how they do with positional sound in games? 
  
 I'm trying to upgrade from a Logitech G35 to an actual headphone, but from what I've read an open set will spit out too much sound for our living room. My wife won't want to hear the explosions, and I won't want to hear Nashville/Revenge/etc.
  
 It seems like Momentums are highly regarded closed cans, I just don't know how they do with games.


----------



## Change is Good

Chico, I know you are probably saving for a big boy... but the HD700 for $549 from RAZORDOG sounds pretty tempting, right?


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Chico, I know you are probably saving for a big boy... but the HD700 for $549 from RAZORDOG sounds pretty tempting, right?


 
  

 I've read a lot of mixed opinions on the HD700, so I'm not sure what to think about them. 
  
 :\


----------



## Kursah

Well I'm not sure if the D600 will be for me or not...but in that same price-range I can get into Orthos via modded F50RP's.
  
 I'm torn between the Mad Dog's for $299 w/alpha pads: https://www.mrspeakers.com/MrSpeakers-Mad-Dog-Alpha-Pad-Fostex-T50RP-headphone
  
 Lot's of love and reviews here...I have been told not to expect D2000 bass then some say it's so much better. I am a bass head but I appreciate good, fluid, bass. It doesn't need to rattle my brains but when I want lots of it I want it on demand. I have read more than a few times that these are claimed to be the best closed headphone for under $300-500.
  
 Next, I found mayflour electornics V3... which they told me if I wanted skull shaking bass was my best choice, in their lineup. https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/store/p12/Fostex_T50RP_-_Version_3.html
  
 Without them gluing the SRH-840 pads on, and ordering some Alpha Pads (fwir this is worth it), they'll be the same price as the mad dogs.
  
 Anyone have experience with both? Either? vs. D2000? There's a great review of the Mad Dogs and gaming, especially with Borderlands 2. I love that game! And BF series, right now I'm playing X3 and Evochron Mercenary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mad Dog 3.2 has probably my fave bass quality out of any headphone I've tried outside of the LCD2/HE400. It's mildy emphasized over the mids, by a smidge, but it's full, without missing any detail. It's absolutely fantastic. If you're a basshead, it may not be as pronounced as you'd like. Basically, if you feel the HE-400/LCD2 don't have enough bass, the Mad Dog won't either. Better off finding something notably bassy. I'm sorry but being a basshead and being into refined bass doesn't exactly meet halfway. The closest thing to that would be the X1, but then it's an open headphone. That or the D7000, which is rare and expensive.

Better bass =/= more bass

Which may be why you're conflicted. there is difference between quality and quantity, and finding the middle ground is the issue. The D600 has way too much bass, and way too much treble. I prefer the CAL over the D600, which had some metallic treble, and notably recessed mids.



> I am a bass head but I appreciate good, fluid, bass. It doesn't need to rattle my brains but when I want lots of it I want it on demand.




You can't have good, fluid, bass as well as LOTS of it. That is a contradiction. You have to make a choice. That simple.

I'd still say to go for the Mad Dog, and if you don't like it, you have that gracious return period. If the bass doesn't satisfy you, then just get a basshead headphone, end of story.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

Decided to bite the bullet on AKG Q701s as my first nice pair of headphones. Per the guide they're great for gaming and I hear they're kinda semi-closed, which is good for keeping my wife sane.
  
 To drive these and get virtual surround, along with voice, I am thinking of getting:
  
 1) Astro Mixamp Pro: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826306006
  
 2) FiiO e17:  http://www.amazon.com/Fiio-E17-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0070UFMOW/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1386945430&sr=1-1&keywords=FiiO+e17
  
 3) AntLion Modmic
  
 Is this all I'll need to work these headphones on a PC?
  
 My motherboard is the ASRock Extreme7 Gen3: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z68%20Extreme7%20Gen3/?cat=Specifications. It has S/PDIF and supports onboard 7.1 with the Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec (would this mean I don't need the Mixamp?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. No. No. The Q701 is open. This talk of semi-open, semi-closed is absolute nonsense. The Q701 leaks. If she's in the same room, she will hear it.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> No. No. No. The Q701 is open. This talk of semi-open, semi-closed is absolute nonsense. The Q701 leaks. If she's in the same room, she will hear it.


 
  
 I admit I was confused by the application of "semi-open" to the Q701s, but I read it a few different places. 
  
 Ok, so they're open. Wife and I have a little overlap in the time we're in the same room while I'm gaming, but not much. I'm going to give them a shot and see how it goes.
  
 Problem is I have very little basis for understanding how much sound escapes from an open headphone. People on the headphones subreddit told me to just leave my G35 playing on my desk and that would be a good comparison. Others have said it's just like having desktop speakers playing. Given that these people are audiophiles, I'm surprised at how wildly different those comparisons are.
  
 If the Q701s don't work out, I'll find a closed set. You like the Mad Dogs, but man are they ugly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To get a general idea as to what a fully open headphone sounds like, hold a full sized headphone in the air with the cups spread apart. Hold it out in front of you. Does the sound playing bother you? That's as much as an open headphone leaks at it's worst. Granted, the Q701 won't leak out THA badly, but it gives you a general idea as to what to expect.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> To get a general idea as to what a fully open headphone sounds like, hold a full sized headphone in the air with the cups spread apart. Hold it out in front of you. Does the sound playing bother you? That's as much as an open headphone leaks at it's worst. Granted, the Q701 won't leak out THA badly, but it gives you a general idea as to what to expect.


 
 Got it. *I* don't care about leakage for *me*, and if your example is an extreme, it'll work.
  
 Thanks for the guide. I tried to go through it thoroughly before asking questions. Since you haven't commented on the Mixamp Pro/E17 combo, I'm guessing it will be fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The Q701 needs, deserves a bit more power than the E17. Nothing short of the E9k, IMHO. It's also one of the headphones to benefit noticeably from better/more powerful amps. I've stated on the guide that amping isn't necessary if using it without a microphone for gaming, but it does improve considerably. Don't bother attaching a mic without some powerful amp to drive it.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> No. The Q701 needs, deserves a lot more power than the E17. Nothing short of the E9k, IMHO. It's also one of the headphones to benefit noticeably from better/more powerful amps.


 
  
 I looked at the E9k with that reasoning in mind, but found that it wasn't also a DAC. I wanted to avoid an E9k and E17 combo to save a little cash. I guess not.
  
 Would the Sony MA900s leak just as much as the Q701s or any other open set?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you think?


If you want less leak, just don't look for any open headphone. here is where I'd recommend the Mad Dogs.


----------



## Lukalop

What mixamp is better than the mixamp pro for console gaming, I cannot find anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp Pro is the best, IMHO. You'll have to hunt for the previous version if you want the least amount of hiss. Ebay has them for sale once in awhile. I'm also selling mine if you're interested, and in the US. Works perfectly with the PS4, assuming you use both the headphone and mic directly with the Mixamp (and not the PS4 controller's audio out).


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> What do you think?


 
  
 Point made.
  
 So Mad Dogs + Mixamp Pro + E17 + Modmic as a starter kit?
  
 Then again, could the Mad Dogs live on just the Mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, the Mad Dog also scales very well with stronger amps (i mentioned this on the guide). Again, nothing short of an E9K. A Magni at the least would be even more ideal.


----------



## AxelCloris

I have an E12 arriving today. We'll see how that bad boy does with my Mad Dogs. I've heard many good things about the pairing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HGoing from my deceased Marantz to the Compass 2 made a noticeable boost in SQ, which is something I'm pretty skeptical about for the most part. the MD and AKG 70x line scaled the most for me. Comparing the 650 through the E9K and uber powerful SA-31 showed me that the E9k drove it excellently.


----------



## Murder Mike

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Point made.
> 
> So Mad Dogs + Mixamp Pro + E17 + Modmic as a starter kit?
> 
> Then again, could the Mad Dogs live on just the Mixamp?


 
  
 Is this for PC gaming? If so, you want a sound card and a separate amp instead of the Mixamp. Something simple like a Xonar DG/DGX or Sound Blaster Z OEM + a Magni or E09K would be a great starting point.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

murder mike said:


> Is this for PC gaming? If so, you want a sound card and a separate amp instead of the Mixamp. Something simple like a Xonar DG/DGX or Sound Blaster Z OEM + a Magni or E09K would be a great starting point.


 
  
 Yeah it is for PC gaming.
  
 I'd heard that external solutions like the Mixamp Pro are better than internal sound cards, but I haven't really started that part of my audio education yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

meh, I'm not gonna keep answering that


----------



## Murder Mike

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Yeah it is for PC gaming.
> 
> I'd heard that external solutions like the Mixamp Pro are better than internal sound cards, but I haven't really started that part of my audio education yet.


 
  
 Really, the only reason to use a Mixamp for PC gaming is if you already have one. Even the most basic sound card with Dolby Headphone will be better.


----------



## SaLX

It's been discussed many time here Cube -search is your friend. +1 on what Mike said.
  
 The general consensus round here is that if you own a PC, then get a soundcard over a Mixamp everytime, as they'll usually be cheaper, have at least as good SQ and have far more control (EQ, effects/DSP, microphone control etc). Also new ones these days come with an internal headphone amplifier = a good thing, so you wouldn't really need an external amp, even for your leaky Q701. Go for a Xonar DGX or a Soundblaster Z.
  
 Nothing wrong with Mixamps as they are great for consoles.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> meh, I'm not gonna keep answering that


 
  
 If this is directed at me, I specifically didn't ask you because I assumed it was covered in the thread and didn't have time to go through it yet. I realize you're tired of answering the same questions for hundreds of pages. No need for snark when you weren't asked.
  


murder mike said:


> Really, the only reason to use a Mixamp for PC gaming is if you already have one. Even the most basic sound card with Dolby Headphone will be better.


 
  
 Noted. Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, it wasn't. I was talking basically to myself for answering those repeated questions. I fall into it, everytime.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, it wasn't. I was talking basically to myself for answering those repeated questions. I fall into it, everytime.


 
  
 You mean...Frequently Asked Questions?
  





  
 I've been jotting down a few things that you could use for a FAQ on the front page.  I think it will be nice to just say "read the FAQ" everytime someone asks one of those questions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm planning on overhauling a few things on the Guide. Removing the value sub section in reviews and adding personal recommendation (yes or no), followed with reasons why yes/no. Amongst other things. I need to go back and see what's still being sold, etc, changing prices, etc.

Even with nameless's guide, people still default to asking me about soundcards, and the like, so for the simple questions, I'll see about a general FAQ answer for things like that. I appreciate all the help, gyez. Going through a tough period atm, so my mind is all over the place. That and general laziness, hahaha.

This new view history edit thing is bound to get me in trouble, lol.

For all you guys's's's's sanity, I'd skip viewing my history which will probably be like 50 edits per post. XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... anyone know how to loop back a sound off a PC back to a PC? Like for instance, playing a PC in Dolby Headphone, and have the analog audio go back into the PC? I know Audacity has a 'listen to the computer' or whatever... if is it as simple as putting a 3.5mm cable from the Mixamp back into the mic input? LOLLOLOLOL.

PERHAPS I SHOULD ASK NAMELESS. WHAT A NUB I AM

Of course, I can record gameplay with Fraps at least. Wanna try and do it with Red faction for some virtual surround tests for you guys.


----------



## FightCat

Hello,
  
 Anybody with a rig combination of HD650 + Asus Xonar U7?
  
 I'll have it complete by the sound card's arrival tomorrow. Should I worry or rejoice ?


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

mad lust envy said:


> Of course, I can record gameplay with Fraps at least. Wanna try and do it with Red faction for some virtual surround tests for you guys.


 
  
 Try Dxtory instead of fraps. When my friends and I were recording PS2, Dxtory gave you more options and caused fewer FPS problems.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I know how you feel all too well, because people keep asking me about headphones I've never, ever heard, which happens to be the majority of them.
  
 There's a REASON I redirect them to your guide for headphone recommendations; you've sampled all the usual AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser sets, while I've mostly centered on Stax systems whose pricetags are downright intimidating because of the amp requirements, and most people don't keep speaker amps around to use with the transformer boxes, either.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Hmm... anyone know how to loop back a sound off a PC back to a PC? Like for instance, playing a PC in Dolby Headphone, and have the analog audio go back into the PC? I know Audacity has a 'listen to the computer' or whatever... if is it as simple as putting a 3.5mm cable from the Mixamp back into the mic input? LOLLOLOLOL.
> 
> PERHAPS I SHOULD ASK NAMELESS. WHAT A NUB I AM
> 
> Of course, I can record gameplay with Fraps at least. Wanna try and do it with Red faction for some virtual surround tests for you guys.


 
  
 There's a MUCH simpler way to do this that doesn't require any cables; it's usually called "Stereo Mix", or "What U Hear" on certain Creative devices. Just record from that.
  
 By the way, instead of FRAPS, it looks like people are faving DXTory, or if you've got a Kepler-architecture NVIDIA GPU, ShadowPlay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Intel 3630QM Sandy Bridge I believe, and a GTX680m GPU... What would I use in his case?

I use fraps just to monitor my framerate when I play games. I did use it to record that one CoD Ghosts gameplay to upload to Youtube.


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> Intel 3630QM Sandy Bridge I believe, and a GTX680m GPU... What would I use in his case?
> 
> I use fraps just to monitor my framerate when I play games. I did use it to record that one CoD Ghosts gameplay to upload to Youtube.


 
 Give Shadowplay a try if your GPU supports it. I've heard a lot of good things.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'm planning on overhauling a few things on the Guide. Removing the value sub section in reviews and adding personal recommendation (yes or no), followed with reasons why yes/no. Amongst other things. I need to go back and see what's still being sold, etc, changing prices, etc.
> 
> Even with nameless's guide, people still default to asking me about soundcards, and the like, so for the simple questions, I'll see about a general FAQ answer for things like that. I appreciate all the help, gyez. Going through a tough period atm, so my mind is all over the place. That and general laziness, hahaha.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds good.
  
 I'll copy and paste some ideas/entries for the a FAQ section you can put in.
  
 Also, I think you should may rip something off Joker's massive portable headphone review page, which is the list of all the headphones by tier's upfront, along with a unique "code" for each one so you can search and instantly jump to the review.
  
  
 You've already got the tiers setup D-A, so you just need to add a number code (see bolded) to them and then put that same code at the heading for their review entry so you can quick jump to it. 

D: $0-$50

*(D1) *Koss KSC35 / Sportapro
*(D2) *Koss KSC75
*(D3)* Koss UR40
*(D4)* Philips SHP2500
  
 ........(later in the review).....
  
*(D1) * Koss KSC35 / Sportapro
  
 Sometimes you mention the same headphone in multiple reviews, so just doing a ctrl+F search for that headphone jumps around a while before it gets the actual review.
  
  
 Also, maybe condense some of the paragraph breaks/spacing some.  There's some empty space you have to scroll through, and if that was trimmed up/condensed tighter, you could probably un-spoiler some of the stuff at the top - such as your tier list and favorite's list (which I think might be good un-spoiler and show all the time anyways so maybe people will ask less redundant questions like "Waht's ur favorite Competitve/Fun headphones?!?")


----------



## chicolom

BTW, what's with this "view history" nonsense?
  
 Seems like it could be messy to use.


----------



## Beatwolf

So what do you guys do when when switching between gaming and listening to music etc. on your pc? Do you manually switch from 7.1 to stereo in the windows control panel playback devices and also deactivate dolby headphone in xonar audio center? Is there some way to set up some quicker way of doing this?. 
  
 Btw been gaming some different titles for a bit longer now, and I must say headphone gaming with DH, and some proper headphones+soundcard is very nice. Won´t ever go back


----------



## PurpleAngel

beatwolf said:


> So what do you guys do when when switching between gaming and listening to music etc. on your pc? Do you manually switch from 7.1 to stereo in the windows control panel playback devices and also deactivate Dolby Headphone in Xonar audio center? Is there some way to set up some quicker way of doing this?.
> 
> Btw been gaming some different titles for a bit longer now, and I must say headphone gaming with DH, and some proper headphones+soundcard is very nice. Won´t ever go back


 
 All you should need to change is the Audio Channel setting in the Xonar control panel.
 6 or 8-channel for surround sound (movies and gaming) and 2-channel for music audio (or basic internet videos)


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Intel 3630QM Sandy Bridge I believe, and a GTX680m GPU... What would I use in his case?
> 
> I use fraps just to monitor my framerate when I play games. I did use it to record that one CoD Ghosts gameplay to upload to Youtube.


 
  
 That's an Ivy Bridge CPU (one generation newer than Sandy Bridge, but also a generation behind now that Haswell's out), and the GTX 680M is indeed a Kepler architecture GPU.
  
 If GeForce Experience is up to date, you should have ShadowPlay support.


----------



## Change is Good

I wanted go chime in and give a suggestion on the topic of a FAQ and other adjustments to the guide. Why not start at voting poll for "What's your favorite headphone for gaming?" that consists of your top ten, MLE? That would kill some of the noob questions as well.

Happy Gaming, fellas!


----------



## Kursah

mad lust envy said:


> Mad Dog 3.2 has probably my fave bass quality out of any headphone I've tried outside of the LCD2/HE400. It's mildy emphasized over the mids, by a smidge, but it's full, without missing any detail. It's absolutely fantastic. If you're a basshead, it may not be as pronounced as you'd like. Basically, if you feel the HE-400/LCD2 don't have enough bass, the Mad Dog won't either. Better off finding something notably bassy. I'm sorry but being a basshead and being into refined bass doesn't exactly meet halfway. The closest thing to that would be the X1, but then it's an open headphone. That or the D7000, which is rare and expensive.
> 
> Better bass =/= more bass
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you very much for your input...honestly that's the best response I've received from any forum or inquiry I've made yet. I suppose you have a point between quality and quantity. I am still seriously considering the Mad Dogs too. I've been talking with Dan and asking questions...they seem to fit where my ears may want me to go or step into...but $300's about all I can spare...if I can.
  
 You have any other suggestions for $300 or less?
  
 Sometimes I like too much bass...but have learned to appreciate my HADX 3's that seem to have more control...it goes deep but it's different from the muddier D2000 (going from memory)...maybe it's the overpowering presence the D2000 has...I know i miss it at times...but that headphone you want to feel the bass you hear. The DX3 has grown on me quite a bit. It's mids are much better to my ears than the D2000...the hi's are a little more dry but seem to have an extra layer of detail if that makes any sense? Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about...but I've grown to like it a lot. The more I read about the Mad Dogs the more interest I have...my next worry is after I go for broke possibly and get em'.... I'll have to hope my Auzen Forte HP amp (last restort), FiiO E9 (second to last resort) or Denon AVR-1613 receiver HP jack will power them...it powers everything else I have very well...well better than than! Hell it's been amazing!
  
 I have had a few people not to waste my money on modded T50RP's...to go he400 or go home...I can't do open phones in my situation, and can't afford that. I'm kind of down to D600 for mad bass...or Mad Dog for neutral with a slight nod towards bassy and a different sound and technology.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

So I've decided on upping my budget to replace my G35, and I saw the new Steelseries Siberia Elite, seems really great, but at 200$ I'm wondering if there are better options, the issue is that I do like Dolby Pro Logic IIx, and the Siberia having it is a plus. Open to suggestions, I did think about maybe getting a nice stereo 200~$ headset now and getting a soundcard for surround later too, but I would like the convenience of an end to end system.


----------



## NamelessPFG

change is good said:


> I wanted go chime in and give a suggestion on the topic of a FAQ and other adjustments to the guide. Why not start at voting poll for "What's your favorite headphone for gaming?" that consists of your top ten, MLE? That would kill some of the noob questions as well.


 
  
 How fast can you say "poll bias"?
  
 It's for that reason I don't necessarily agree with that approach...although it is kind of weird to realize that I no longer own my favorite headphone for gaming and everything else ever due to cost reasons.
  
 Oh well, I'll scour eBay for another one.
  


drunkentiger said:


> So I've decided on upping my budget to replace my G35, and I saw the new Steelseries Siberia Elite, seems really great, but at 200$ I'm wondering if there are better options, the issue is that I do like Dolby Pro Logic IIx, and the Siberia having it is a plus. Open to suggestions, I did think about maybe getting a nice stereo 200~$ headset now and getting a soundcard for surround later too, but I would like the convenience of an end to end system.


 
  
 G35? That's a PC-centric headset...and PC games have no need for Dolby Pro Logic IIx to begin with.
  
 That's something you generally need for PS2, GCN and Wii games, possibly certain N64 games too. Remember, it's a means of encoding surround channels over two-channel analog output, more akin to Dolby Digital and DTS sans the "digital" part.
  
 I suggest you set aside at least $50 for a sound card now. Gaming without any form of virtual surround is seriously limiting.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

namelesspfg said:


> How fast can you say "poll bias"?
> 
> It's for that reason I don't necessarily agree with that approach...although it is kind of weird to realize that I no longer own my favorite headphone for gaming and everything else ever due to cost reasons.
> 
> ...


 
 Wait what?! This is news to me! Are you sure... I mean I know you can do mixed 7.1 many different ways on PC, but Pro Logic IIx is on a lot of PC centric headsets, including the G35 that came out 4 years ago...


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> I suggest you set aside at least $50 for a sound card now.


 
  
 That reminds me, I popped in to Micro Center today. 
  
  
 You guys would love it in there.  They have most of the Asus Xonar cards right there on the shelves.  The U3, DG, DGX, Essence STX, DX, DXS, etc.
  
 Also AFAIK they have all the soundblaster cards.
  
  
 The prices aren't necessarily spectacular, but it's mind boggling to walk around inside the equivalent of a real-life-Newegg and see all this stuff in-stock and in physical boxes on the shelves.
  
  
  
  
 Look at all dem soundcards!
  

  
  
  
  
  
  
 Some racks of SoundBlasters.
  
  


  
  
  
  
  
  
 And a bunch of probably-awful "gaming headsets".


----------



## NamelessPFG

drunkentiger said:


> Wait what?! This is news to me! Are you sure... I mean I know you can do mixed 7.1 many different ways on PC, but Pro Logic IIx is on a lot of PC centric headsets, including the G35 that came out 4 years ago...


 
  
 Like I said, it's a way of squeezing extra speaker channels into a two-channel signal, but it does NOT do so via HRTF techniques. Without the proper decoder, it's practically a plain stereo signal.
  
 It was meant to enable surround sound on devices that could only output two analog channels, usually RCA connections fed to a receiver with a built-in Dolby Surround/Pro Logic decoder.
  
 That was no longer seen as necessary once S/PDIF became more widespread and the Dolby Digital and DTS codecs alongside it...which actually serve a similar purpose in that S/PDIF only has enough bandwidth for two uncompressed PCM channels, but both of them throw out some data so they can cram a full six channels into the same bandwidth, thankfully discrete and free of the crosstalk issues that can plague a matrixed encoding method like Pro Logic, along with being automatically detectable. (Pro Logic decoding needs to be manually set.)
  
 This is why Dolby Headphone surround processors like the Mixamp, Ear Force DSS and SU-DH1 feature Dolby Pro Logic II(x); it's to DECODE the signal much like it would Dolby Digital (and DTS in the SU-DH1's case) and extract all the individual speaker channels, and then apply Dolby Headphone to the now-separated speaker channels for the final surround effect.
  
 The only time you need to ENcode Dolby Pro Logic II(x) on a computer is if you're piping it to an old A/V receiver that lacks S/PDIF input entirely, and chances are if you have the means to do that, your audio device can output straight-up Dolby Headphone anyway, making it pointless for this particular usage case.
  


chicolom said:


> That reminds me, I popped in to Micro Center today.
> You guys would love it in there.  They have most of the Asus Xonar cards right there on the shelves.  The U3, DG, DGX, Essence STX, DX, DXS, etc.
> 
> Also AFAIK they have all the soundblaster cards.
> ...


 
  
 Huh, I haven't seen any shelf quite like that in the Marietta Micro Center, but the fact that they still have some leftover X-Fi Titanium HD stock in that shot pleases me.
  
 I should note, Micro Center is hands-down THE best place to buy CPUs and motherboards. Even with sales tax, their CPU prices are far better than Newegg and anyone else, their motherboards are aggressively-priced and frequently get a $30-50 combo discount with CPU purchases, and the $200 i7-4770K sale they had preceding Black Friday by a week can only be beaten if you qualify for Intel Retail Edge. (I bought my 4770K before then, but they refunded me thanks to price protection!)
  
 If I move over to the northwestern US, I am definitely going to miss having a Micro Center store in the area. Apparently, Fry's Electronics has a major presence there, but again, their prices are nothing on Micro Center's.


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> I should note, *Micro Center is hands-down THE best place to buy CPUs and motherboards*.
> 
> Even with sales tax, their CPU prices are far better than Newegg and anyone else, their motherboards are aggressively-priced and frequently get a $30-50 combo discount with CPU purchases, and the $200 i7-4770K sale they had preceding Black Friday by a week can only be beaten if you qualify for Intel Retail Edge. (I bought my 4770K before then, but they refunded me thanks to price protection!)


 
  
 QFT
  
 Microcenter's off-season CPU + Motherboard prices still probably beat online retailers prices during Black Friday.
  
 I think they price them so nice just to get you down there in the store, so you'll be tempted to buy other things too.  The only reason I went there today was to return my AMD CPU + board, but I ended up looking around at stuff for an hour.  Once you get inside it's hard to break free and leave. 
  
  
  
 Does Micro Center do price protection on CPUs?  If so, how did you go about getting that handled? 
  
 I'm going back next week to grab an intel CPU (4670K ) + motherboard. The price protection might come in handy should they have some kind of after-Christmas/New Years sale a bit later.


----------



## raif89

First off, I wanted to thank anyone who helped me pick out my headphones (especially MLE for making this thread) I just got my X1's and I must say as  Headphone virgin... holy crap. Why did I not buy something before hand?
  
 As I'm playing with my settings with my Xonar STX settings, anyone have recommendations on how to set up the STX to work well with the headphones for music/movies/gaming? I've got all these features that I don't know how to use (or if I should use em). I can't find anything labeled gain or something but have stuff like Dolby Headphone which I'm assuming is more for gaming to get that surround sound, but I've got some like 5 buttons with different settings like Hi-Fi or Music/Gaming/Movies and then there is the Effect with the range of kilohertz that I've left on default. I also put the sample rate to 192KHz and the channels at 8 channels. As you can see, I'm a little lost. 
  
  Any help would be cool and highly appreciated. As these headphones are awesome I want to do em justice for each area of use (Music/gaming/movies)
  
 thanks!


----------



## SaLX

> Originally Posted by *raif89*
> 
> As I'm playing with my settings with my Xonar STX settings, anyone have recommendations on how to set up the STX to work well with the headphones for music/movies/gaming? I've got all these features that I don't know how to use (or if I should use em). I can't find anything labeled gain or something but have stuff like Dolby Headphone which I'm assuming is more for gaming to get that surround sound, but I've got some like 5 buttons with different settings like Hi-Fi or Music/Gaming/Movies and then there is the Effect with the range of kilohertz that I've left on default. I also put the sample rate to 192KHz and the channels at 8 channels. As you can see, I'm a little lost.


 
 Google = friend: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18298469
 There's also a big thread on the STX here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H2VOELQ?tag=cheapassgam08-20
  
 BF2142 for 4,99 Dollars. I'll give it a try just for some OpenAL fun. 
  
 Edit: You need to link Origin accounts with Amazon. Damn.


----------



## Beatwolf

purpleangel said:


> All you should need to change is the Audio Channel setting in the Xonar control panel.
> 6 or 8-channel for surround sound (movies and gaming) and 2-channel for music audio (or basic internet videos)


 
 OK, it´s just that MLE mentioned to be sure to configure it to 7.1 in the control panel as well. But maybe that can be set to 7.1 permanently and then just change in the xonar panel afterwards?


----------



## AxelCloris

Dishonored is $7.50 at Amazon using Steam for the DRM. A very well made game if you ask me.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GXHIL28/
  
 Game of the Year edition for $13.59
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GXHIM2M/
  
 Elder Scrolls 4 and 5 in there as well on sale. Can't complain about great games at a discount.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've had an issue with my left analog stick on my PS4 controller since I've first received it, and now it just flat out disregards L3 half the time. So now I have to RMA it, and wait 7-10 days AFTER they receive the damn thing. So I'm basically without my PS4 for 2 weeks.

Gotta love life at the moment. Everything just likes to dump on me all at once.


----------



## NamelessPFG

chicolom said:


> QFT
> 
> Microcenter's off-season CPU + Motherboard prices still probably beat online retailers prices during Black Friday.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The first time a neighbor took me there for computer parts, I felt like a kid in a candy shop...it's not every day that you find a retail store with the part selection Newegg offers, let alone competitive prices and even extra enthusiast things like compression fittings for custom water-cooling loops.
  
 It's even better if you're shopping for computer cases specifically, as you get to see them in person and understand exactly what you're going to be working with if you buy one for a new build.
  
 I'm not entirely sure on the details of their price protection program, but my i7-4770K was still within the return period (15 days) during that sale, meaning that I could have made them go through a complicated full refund + repurchase process if they didn't have such a system in place.
  


mad lust envy said:


> I've had an issue with my left analog stick on my PS4 controller since I've first received it, and now it just flat out disregards L3 half the time. So now I have to RMA it, and wait 7-10 days AFTER they receive the damn thing. So I'm basically without my PS4 for 2 weeks.
> 
> Gotta love life at the moment. Everything just likes to dump on me all at once.


 
  
 Reliability problems? That sucks...especially when the DualShock 4 is otherwise such an awesome gamepad.
  
 Seriously, a DualShock 4 with the DualShock 2/3's analog buttons and native PS3 support would practically be gamepad perfection.


----------



## SaLX

So you can't use the older PS3 controllers as backup? Anybody heard of reliability issues with these new PS4 gamepads, or have you just pulled an unlucky dud MLE?


----------



## GuacalaQueRico

Hi! I just bought Skullcandy SLYR Headset, but I can hear static sound when is quiet, for example in the Xbox Dashboard or the PS3 XMB. I tried with other headphones in the GMX Mixer and the sound is there no matter what, I don't hear it when I play, but if someone talks I can hear static. I don´t know if this is normal. Help please, I'm from Mexico and I don't want to return them, it's very difficult to send things to USA


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> The first time a neighbor took me there for computer parts, I felt like a kid in a candy shop...it's not every day that you find a retail store with the part selection Newegg offers, let alone competitive prices and even extra enthusiast things like compression fittings for custom water-cooling loops.
> 
> It's even better if you're shopping for computer cases specifically, as you get to see them in person and understand exactly what you're going to be working with if you buy one for a new build.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know what you mean.  It's a little overwhelming going in there and seeing the in-stock selection.
  
 It's nice to be able to physically see the computer cases in person, and not have to rely on online pics or one of those "360 3D" spin views.
  

  
  
  
  
  
 I was blown away by the size of some of the full tower ATX cases.  For reference, in the below pic that _small _looking case on the left is actually what most people would consider your normal sized desktop (mid ATX).  The case on the right is really just _that big _in comparison!
  
  

  
  
  
  
 That 15 day price matching makes since, as you could make them do it anyways through a full return/new buy, but it saves them a lot of work to just give you a little refund.


----------



## NamelessPFG

That case...it looks like Cooler Master's answer to the Corsair 900D in its massive full-towerness.

I remember a few years back, when the Corsair 800D had just released to rave reviews everywhere, and I wanted it. I saw it in Micro Center and wanted it even more. Now I own it, and I like it...except this thing REALLY needs some casters, it's so heavy when fully-loaded! (And the power button assembly is some seriously cheap crap for a $300 MSRP case. Good thing I only paid about half that.)

Now, as for more headphone-related news...Head-Fi is ruining my finances again. I still have no experience with anything AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser...but I'm about to scratch the second one off that list. Good thing I know how to solder.

Mad Lust Envy, you might want to prepare for a review within the next month, especially seeing as you have DT770 experience...


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

raif89 said:


> First off, I wanted to thank anyone who helped me pick out my headphones (especially MLE for making this thread) I just got my X1's and I must say as  Headphone virgin... holy crap. Why did I not buy something before hand?
> 
> As I'm playing with my settings with my Xonar STX settings, anyone have recommendations on how to set up the STX to work well with the headphones for music/movies/gaming? I've got all these features that I don't know how to use (or if I should use em). I can't find anything labeled gain or something but have stuff like Dolby Headphone which I'm assuming is more for gaming to get that surround sound, but I've got some like 5 buttons with different settings like Hi-Fi or Music/Gaming/Movies and then there is the Effect with the range of kilohertz that I've left on default. I also put the sample rate to 192KHz and the channels at 8 channels. As you can see, I'm a little lost.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Out of curiosity, why did you go with the STX over one of the cheaper Xonar cards like the DGX?


----------



## AxelCloris

Huzzah! My DX microphone has finally made it over on the slow boat from China. Now I can try gaming with my HD650!


----------



## Evshrug

cubemonkeynyc said:


> I admit I was confused by the application of "semi-open" to the Q701s, but I read it a few different places.
> 
> Ok, so they're open. Wife and I have a little overlap in the time we're in the same room while I'm gaming, but not much. I'm going to give them a shot and see how it goes.
> 
> ...



I made a practical (low-science) video demo comparing the sound leaking from different types of headphones. I'm evshrug there as well as here, just search my name.

Several headphones leak a fair bit less while you're wearing them.



cubemonkeynyc said:


> Point made.
> 
> So Mad Dogs + Mixamp Pro + E17 + Modmic as a starter kit?
> 
> Then again, could the Mad Dogs live on just the Mixamp?



One thing to consider: the Mixamp and the E17 are both DACs. The Mixamp or other surround processor must get a digital signal directly from the computer, so you could only use an E17 as a power amp for the Mixamp.

The Mixamp is really only intended for current-gen Consoles, you could figure out a work-around but it's simpler (and cheaper) to just get something made for a PC. The SoundBlaster I just got for my PC works really well, sounds very clean.



cubemonkeynyc said:


> Try Dxtory instead of fraps. When my friends and I were recording PS2, Dxtory gave you more options and caused fewer FPS problems.



Thanks for that suggestion, I've asked how to create YouTube vids with baked-in surround a few times so I could make examples for others, but I hadn't heard of DXTory before, thanks for that. Now, I can finally make the samples I "need" to complete my guide on virtual surround.



namelesspfg said:


> I know how you feel all too well, because people keep asking me about headphones I've never, ever heard, which happens to be the majority of them.
> 
> There's a REASON I redirect them to your guide for headphone recommendations; you've sampled all the usual AKG, Beyerdynamic and Sennheiser sets, while I've mostly centered on Stax systems whose pricetags are downright intimidating because of the amp requirements, and most people don't keep speaker amps around to use with the transformer boxes, either.
> 
> ...



Haven't heard of ShadowPlay before and I just updated NVIDIA Experience last night, I'll have to check it out. Just activate shadowplay, and then What U Hear with the soundcard's surround turned on, right?



axelcloris said:


> Huzzah! My DX microphone has finally made it over on the slow boat from China. Now I can try gaming with my HD650!



Huzzah! Wanna test it out tonight? I could get on borderlands 2 again


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

evshrug said:


> I made a practical (low-science) video demo comparing the sound leaking from different types of headphones. I'm evshrug there as well as here, just search my name.


 
  
 I'd already seen it and it was very helpful. Thanks.
  
 After changing my mind ten times I've gone with DT 990 250 ohm, a Xonar DGX, a Magni, and a modmic. I think that will do to start.


----------



## GuacalaQueRico

Hi! I just bought Skullcandy SLYR Headset, but I can hear static sound when is quiet, for example in the Xbox Dashboard or the PS3 XMB. I tried with other headphones in the GMX Mixer and the sound is there no matter what, I don't hear it when I play, but if someone talks I can hear static. I don´t know if this is normal. Help please, I'm from Mexico and I don't want to return them, it's very difficult to send things to USA


----------



## Evshrug

Cubemonkey,
 Should be good kit! hope you enjoy/love it and have many moments that just take you away and feel so good 

I keep thinking to make more vids and "guide" articles in my thread, I know a lot of other people have done it but I think that next I'll make a guide with general tips to plan out choosing a music system (headphone-amp-DAC-processing-source). While I don't want to ruin the fun of "picking the right component for me," I do think a lot of people would benefit from understanding the vocabulary and how to scale their audio chain for their budget.

Rnght now though I'm just going to sleep, because my iPad keeps crashing Safari every 3 minutes. It's really starting to irk me.


----------



## Evshrug

guacalaquerico said:


> Hi! I just bought Skullcandy SLYR Headset, but I can hear static sound when is quiet, for example in the Xbox Dashboard or the PS3 XMB. I tried with other headphones in the GMX Mixer and the sound is there no matter what, I don't hear it when I play, but if someone talks I can hear static. I don´t know if this is normal. Help please, I'm from Mexico and I don't want to return them, it's very difficult to send things to USA




Yes, I saw your post earlier but I'm not sure how to help.
I believe Mad said the mixer just has background hiss normally in his SLYR review... ditch the Mixer for something better like a Turtle Beach DSS on eBay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

guacalaquerico said:


> Hi! I just bought Skullcandy SLYR Headset, but I can hear static sound when is quiet, for example in the Xbox Dashboard or the PS3 XMB. I tried with other headphones in the GMX Mixer and the sound is there no matter what, I don't hear it when I play, but if someone talks I can hear static. I don´t know if this is normal. Help please, I'm from Mexico and I don't want to return them, it's very difficult to send things to USA




Tu nombre es una contradiction, hahaha. I like it a lot.

The Slyr's mixer is a little hissy. It is not a problem with the headphone itself. If you dont plan on using the mic on the mixer, you can try and find a used DSS as evs stated. It will give you better audio and dolby headphone.

Sadly, most of these amps that are bundled with certain headsets tend to be hissy.


I should be getting the Slyr back tomorrow, so I'll give it a test and see how the Mixer acts. It's been awhile since I've used the Slyr, let alone the Mixer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just remembered I could still play ps4 without a controller...my Vita. Remoteplay still plays with the ps4 displaying on the tv...

Ah well. Not a good idea for COD, since the Vita's analog sticks are terribad.


----------



## raif89

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Out of curiosity, why did you go with the STX over one of the cheaper Xonar cards like the DGX?


 
 The built in amp. I couldn't afford an external amp at the time that I bought it (2 years ago) and was planning on getting an HD650 or an AKG 702.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So... it's December 15th.

I turned 31. So in order to celebrate, I'll be putting up 31 new reviews in the near future....





Okay, maybe it's more like 3.1 reviews.


----------



## rudyae86

quick question...

does the creative sound blaster recond3d work with the ps4? couldnt find anything on it on the net...or havent searched properly

thank you


----------



## GuacalaQueRico

mad lust envy said:


> Tu nombre es una contradiction, hahaha. I like it a lot.
> 
> The Slyr's mixer is a little hissy. It is not a problem with the headphone itself. If you dont plan on using the mic on the mixer, you can try and find a used DSS as evs stated. It will give you better audio and dolby headphone.
> 
> ...




Muchos me dicen de mi nombre  Well, thank you very much. I can handle the noise, isn't that loud. I maybe get the DSS 2 for christmas but I don't know if the mic will work. If I buy the Astro Mixamp I can use the mic? Or the DSS 2 can work with my mic?

Thank you again and happy birthday!


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> So... it's December 15th.
> 
> I turned 31.


 
  
 Time to celebrate!


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> So... it's December 15th.
> 
> I turned 31. So in order to celebrate, I'll be putting up 31 new reviews in the near future....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Congratz for being another year older 
 OT-That's cheating! 31 it is


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Huzzah! Wanna test it out tonight? I could get on borderlands 2 again


 
  
 I'm all for some more BL2. I'm free tonight around 11ish. Break the seal on multiplayer gaming with the HD650s and try out the DX mic. I was very impressed with MLE's sound for the price, so let's see if I too drew the lucky straw on quality.


----------



## Sanctuary

namelesspfg said:


> Best games for sound? That's easy: the original Thief trilogy (The Dark Project/Gold, The Metal Age, Deadly Shadows)!
> 
> It's a combination of excellent sound design and pinpoint positioning, which you're going to need if you want to sneak your way past things. No Soliton Radar System for you here!
> 
> ...


 

  Dead Space had been mentioned a few times back in August, but I thought I'd just remind people about how the first two games (especially the first), had some of the best audio in any game that I can remember.  While I'm not quite sure about the positional qualities yet (I haven't played it since I started using DH), it had by far the best atmospheric audio.
  
 Also, was reading over the reviews on the first post again, and just wanted to mention that the "holes" in specific positions aren't necessarily because of the headphones themselves, even if the headphone might pronounce an issue more than another.  The "5 to 7 hole" that the DT880s supposedly possess have more to do with your decoder/drivers than anything else.  The cues were "okay" with the Essence STX and these headphones initially, but after grabbing the custom, unified drivers and then the custom 7.1 profile, I was able to clearly hear things coming directly behind at 6 instead of sounding like it was between 4 and 5 and 7 and 8.  The simulated center speaker actually sounded like a center for a change too instead of it sounding either like a center that was elevated to the top of my forehead, or was simply coming from the left and rights that were closer together than they should be.
  
 I just finally played through Half Life 2 and both episodes with the FFCM mod (after owning HL2 since 2004 and almost finishing it multiple times...), and I'd often just walk around when NPCs were talking just to make sure I wasn't imagining things.  The detail was excellent and it didn't sound like the "fake" frontal and rear cues from just making a huge frontal and rear cone like it did prior to the newer drivers and profile.


----------



## SammyJr

Hi everyone. I am new here, and want to thank mad lust envy for the amazing guide. because of it, and me being an impulsive buyer, I ended up buying the X1's and Annie's. Now I'm starting to think I only needed one pair, especially since I am primarily interested in immersive/fun gaming.
  
 I don't think I'm allowed to sell the Annie's on this website am I (on the classified section)? If there is anyone that wants a pair, I can sell them to you for a much cheaper price than what they are going for now (on amazon they're $430)


----------



## AxelCloris

sammyjr said:


> Hi everyone. I am new here, and want to thank mad lust envy for the amazing guide. because of it, and me being an impulsive buyer, I ended up buying the X1's and Annie's. Now I'm starting to think I only needed one pair, especially since I am primarily interested in immersive/fun gaming.
> 
> I don't think I'm allowed to sell the Annie's on this website am I (on the classified section)? If there is anyone that wants a pair, I can sell them to you for a much cheaper price than what they are going for now (on amazon they're $430)


 
  
 There's a for sale section of the forums that is very lively. You can sell the Annies there. Pop up a listing and you'll get responses pretty quick. My last few listings had bites within hours of posting.
  
 That said, there are minimum requirements to sell in the forums. I don't know what the new requirements are. When I joined a couple years ago it was a minimum 50 posts. I believe it has since changed.


----------



## chicolom

Dead Space is one of my favorite auditory experiences in gaming.  Incredible atmosphere and sound design.  The audio is literally award winning. 
  
 Bioshock also has excellent audio.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> That said, there are minimum requirements to sell in the forums. I don't know what the new requirements are. When I joined a couple years ago it was a minimum 50 posts. I believe it has since changed.


 
  
_"The "Buy, Sell, Trade" portion of this site is a private forum for members who have been registered for 30 days AND have made at least 15 posts on the forums."_
 http://www.head-fi.org/a/buy-sell-trade-rules
  
 He just joined today, so he'll have to wait a month before he can post a classified.
  
 He can always try eBay or Amazon though.


----------



## SaLX

chicolom said:


> _"The "Buy, Sell, Trade" portion of this site is a private forum for members who have been registered for 30 days AND have made at least 15 posts on the forums."_
> 
> He can always try eBay or Amazon though.


 
 Can you post your ad on the Buy Sell and Trade forum, but only link the item you want to sell on eBay (being a helluva lot safer)?
  
 btw:   ****Happy Birthday MLE*****


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Just remembered I could still play ps4 without a controller...my Vita. Remoteplay still plays with the ps4 displaying on the tv...
> 
> Ah well. Not a good idea for COD, since the Vita's analog sticks are terribad.


 
  
 I'm clearly not alone in thinking that. Would've preferred to either have more leverage on those little sticks (at the expense of making the Vita thicker than it already is), or 3DS-style Circle Pads with some actual range of movement to them.
  
 Also, happy birthday! Too bad I don't have any ice cream cake to give you...


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> I'm clearly not alone in thinking that. Would've preferred to either have *more leverage on those little sticks* (at the expense of making the Vita thicker than it already is), or 3DS-style Circle Pads with some actual range of movement to them.
> 
> Also, happy birthday! Too bad I don't have any ice cream cake to give you...


 
  
  
 Speaking of stick leverage 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, I highly recommend any gamepad gamers check out the Kontrol Freek stick things.  They seem gimmicky, but they work.  I've been using them since 2009, and I wouldn't game without them now. 
  
 http://www.kontrolfreek.com/classic/fps-freek-ultra.html
  
  
 And Happy B-Day MLE!


----------



## Totoori

What should I be pairing with q701's  that will be used on my PC and absolutely nothing else? I have nothing but onboard sound currently.


----------



## Naingolann

Happy birthday MLE.


----------



## Change is Good

Has there been any word of Astro making a new mixamp? It would be nice to have one with multiple digital inputs... so I can plug in both the PS3 and PS4 and not have to keep switching back and forth... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Is there already a device with multiple digital inputs and DH?
  
 And oh....


----------



## Sanctuary

change is good said:


> Has there been any word of Astro making a new mixamp? It would be nice to have one with multiple digital inputs... so I can plug in both the PS3 and PS4 and not have to keep switching back and forth...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You can already have 2-8 systems connected to a toslink switcher and then have it going to whatever you're using as your decoder and simply switch the dial, or if you bought a slightly more expensive one, press a button on a box or remote.


----------



## AxelCloris

sanctuary said:


> You can already have 2-8 systems connected to a toslink switcher and then have it going to whatever you're using as your decoder and simply switch the dial, or if you bought a slightly more expensive one, press a button on a box or remote.


 
  
 There are now toslink switchers that switch automatically as well.


----------



## Beatwolf

beatwolf said:


> OK, it´s just that MLE mentioned to be sure to configure it to 7.1 in the control panel as well. But maybe that can be set to 7.1 permanently and then just change in the xonar panel afterwards?


 
 Sorry for repeating a probably somewhat noobish question but is the above just what I should do onward? btw. Agree with Dead Space, have been playing the 3rd and although it goes the wrong direction gameplay wise for me, sound is definetly one of its strong points.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> There are now toslink switchers that switch *automatically* as well.


 
  
 link please!!! lol


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> link please!!! lol


 
  
 If you're only using 2 sources, this will work perfectly and for about $8. If you're using 3 or more, it's more budget friendly to use a remote based system. But automatic switchers can be found for $250 and up. The issue with automatic toslink switchers is the fact that optical doesn't carry current like other cables. That makes the switcher much more expensive because it needs optical sensors and circuitry rather than a simple current detector like automatic HDMI switches.


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks Axel,

I may have to go the remote route then as I see the one in the link has too many negative reviews. Will look into it more when I get paid.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Thanks Axel,
> 
> I may have to go the remote route then as I see the one in the link has too many negative reviews. Will look into it more when I get paid.


 
  
 You don't need that specific one, it was just the first of it's kind I came across. A splitter that can work as a combiner in reverse is the simplest setup for 2 sources as long as one is completely off when the other is on.


----------



## jumpman23j

This question is for Mad Lust Envy or anyone else with some insight, I want to buy some nice headphones for gaming on my PS4.  I will be playing at night so I cannot have something loud as to where it will wake the baby either.  The room I will be playing in is about 12 feet or so away from where the baby will be.  I have been thinking of getting the beyerdynamic dt 990 with the fiio e17 but I don't know if that's really ideal given they are open and the sound leakage and if I will potentially wake others up in the house.  I appreciate your help, thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

jumpman23j said:


> This question is for Mad Lust Envy or anyone else with some insight, I want to buy some nice headphones for gaming on my PS4.  I will be playing at night so I cannot have something loud as to where it will wake the baby either.  The room I will be playing in is about 12 feet or so away from where the baby will be.  I have been thinking of getting the Beyerdynamic DT 990 with the Fiio E17 but I don't know if that's really ideal given they are open and the sound leakage and if I will potentially wake others up in the house.  I appreciate your help, thanks!


 
 Only 12 feet from baby.
 Might be better in vest in some "thin skinned" closed headphones.


----------



## jumpman23j

purpleangel said:


> Only 12 feet from baby.
> Might be better in vest in some "thin skinned" closed headphones.


 
  
 Well the hallway is around 12 feet separating the two rooms.  I take it I should get some closed headphones though right?  What are some good closed headphones for gaming?  I hear that the M Audio Q40 are pretty good, any thoughts on these?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> So... it's December 15th.
> 
> I turned 31. So in order to celebrate, I'll be putting up 31 new reviews in the near future....
> 
> ...



Woo WHOOO! Congrats on surviving and being only 4 years apart from my age. Hope you solve all those tech dilemmas and enjoy the incoming headphones!





axelcloris said:


> I'm all for some more BL2. I'm free tonight around 11ish. Break the seal on multiplayer gaming with the HD650s and try out the DX mic. I was very impressed with MLE's sound for the price, so let's see if I too drew the lucky straw on quality.



The mic you used sounded great. I have no idea how I sounded to you, sitting back in my chair with the mic on top of my monitor. It is a convenient/relaxed way to play though.
I think I'll be a goof and get another AKG model to try out. I really must sell something though.

Do you believe the Geek Pulse is the Real Deal? quite expensive, haven't heard much improvement after good $100 things, and speaking of that price point apparently the Dragonfly has had it's price lowered to just $99, people were very impressed with that DAC. The Pulse seems like overkill... but still, I'm tempted. I like the Crossfade option on my E12 when I just wanna relax with my music, I bet the Geek's cheesily-named "awesomifyer" is just a hardware crossfeed with a little EQ to "relax" the presentation to a darker, more laid-back FR.




jumpman23j said:


> This question is for Mad Lust Envy or anyone else with some insight, I want to buy some nice headphones for gaming on my PS4.  I will be playing at night so I cannot have something loud as to where it will wake the baby either.  The room I will be playing in is about 12 feet or so away from where the baby will be.  I have been thinking of getting the beyerdynamic dt 990 with the fiio e17 but I don't know if that's really ideal given they are open and the sound leakage and if I will potentially wake others up in the house.  I appreciate your help, thanks!



Here, let me give you an idea of what an "open" headphone sounds like in comparison to some small speakers:

[Video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53t_8UrB9xg[/Video]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> If you're only using 2 sources, this will work perfectly and for about $8. If you're using 3 or more, it's more budget friendly to use a remote based system. But automatic switchers can be found for $250 and up. The issue with automatic toslink switchers is the fact that optical doesn't carry current like other cables. That makes the switcher much more expensive because it needs optical sensors and circuitry rather than a simple current detector like automatic HDMI switches.




I owned two of those, and both of them didn;t work properly. This is why optical switchers are something I'm completely against. I also owned two of the manual knob switchers, and both oif them also didn't work properly.

0 for 4 is enough for me to not ever waste more cash to get a working unit. I'll stick to just swapping the cables out on the Mixamp. 

Thanks guys. 

I spent the day.... sleeping and testing out dxtory for fps limiting, lol.


----------



## tmaxx123

happy birthday bud! ive been enjoying bf4 on the ps4 with the mmx-300's. sound whoring at its finest! sorry to hear about your conroller.... i am still hoping to try out the ath-ad1 and see how it compares. any chance they will send you a pair to review?


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, I still have the MMX-300 as well. Still wondering why they don't get a non-headset release seeing how boomy the other DT770s get in the bass or sibillant in the highs. This is clearly their best DT770. I love the bass extension. Check out the Head-fi test wavs and see for yourself. The Mixamp unfortunately has a low frequency cutoff. On my DAC there's only the headphones own limit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the MMX300 is one of the 32ohm DT770s. beyerdynamic is inconsistent with their sound signatures, as there have been 32ohm 770s with balanced signatures, and ones with a lot of bass. Not to mention my overly bassy 600ohm...


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> I owned two of those, and both of them didn;t work properly. This is why optical switchers are something I'm completely against. I also owned two of the manual knob switchers, and both oif them also didn't work properly.
> 
> 0 for 4 is enough for me to not ever waste more cash to get a working unit. I'll stick to just swapping the cables out on the Mixamp.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm using http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-102946-Optical-TosLink-Bi-Directional/dp/B0097IWZRC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1387195908&sr=8-3&keywords=toslink+switch
  
 and have had zero issues with it.  Only downside is that it's annoying to switch due to the release/locking mechanism.  Don't really have to use it as much anymore though due to gaming mostly on the PC, but you don't need anything expensive to have functionality.  What you probably want to stay away from though are the type that look like they are just plug and forget.  You need one with some kind of selector.  I also only paid around $5 when I bought mine.

 Dunno though, if you have your Mixamp in an area where you would have had a switcher anyway, all this would do is save you a little cable management.  I'm using an infrared Pioneer box for my gaming consoles, and the switch actually works as a toslink extender too, or else I'd need to buy three 8 foot cables.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I owned one of those, as well as a black one. Both didn't work right.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure the MMX300 is one of the 32ohm DT770s. beyerdynamic is inconsistent with their sound signatures, as there have been 32ohm 770s with balanced signatures, and ones with a lot of bass. Not to mention my overly bassy 600ohm...


 
  
 I had 2 32 Ohm Editions, one of them them LE and two MMX 300 2013. They are not the same to me. LE and regular 32 Ohm are noticably boomier in bass Both MMX 300 need 45 at my volume dial contrary to the 32 Ohms that need far less (25-30)


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

totoori said:


> What should I be pairing with q701's  that will be used on my PC and absolutely nothing else? I have nothing but onboard sound currently.


 
  
 I asked this recently.
  
 Get a Xonar soundcard. Anything from the DGX to STX, depending on how much you want to spend. Then hook that up to a Schiit Magni amp. You can get both from Amazon/Newegg.
  
 EDIT - Actually, if you are getting a Schiit Magni, make sure you are either getting a soundcard with an RCA output or know that you may also need to get a 3.5MM to RCA adapter if the soundcard does not have RCA out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> I had 2 32 Ohm Editions, one of them them LE and two MMX 300 2013. They are not the same to me. LE and regular 32 Ohm are noticably boomier in bass Both MMX 300 need 45 at my volume dial contrary to the 32 Ohms that need far less (25-30)




Like I said, inconsistent drivers. You just didn't get a premium DT770 that sounded like the MMX300. They are out there. Again, the MMX300 doesn't just have one sound either.

There have been both bass heavy MMX300 and bass light/balanced.


----------



## AxelCloris

Spent a bit of time last night playing Borderlands 2 with Evshrug. I have to say that I really enjoy my new combo: Mac>Recon3D>E12>HD650 w/ DX mic. The grouping of those together was excellent. Really fun headphone with a very impressive portable amp. I actually prefer this combo to gaming than when I had the Schiit Vali. Partially because it's portable and partially because I'm coming to realize I prefer SS signatures to tube. That's probably why I like my T1. Sure it has a tube DAC, but the amp is SS.
  
 Ev, not once did I have an issue hearing what you were saying with the mic on the monitor. You sounded pretty metallic and hollow. Your voice had more body the first time we played. That said, it didn't sound any worse than some cheap gaming headset mics out there.


----------



## Evshrug

Didn't mean to keep us up so late, but much fun was being had!

It's pretty cool the mic was at least clear, since I didn't do any prep we basically had a worst-case scenario for the mic... though they advertise it being a little better.

Also, three words:

Mac Pro.

HNNNNNNNNNGH!


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

Is using a 3.5MM to RCA adapter to go from a soundcard to a Magni a bad idea?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Didn't mean to keep us up so late, but much fun was being had!
> 
> It's pretty cool the mic was at least clear, since I didn't do any prep we basically had a worst-case scenario for the mic... though they advertise it being a little better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, that Mac Pro is a thing of beauty. But since I don't do much video editing any more and my MBP is still excellent with my interface/mic for voice over work I don't see myself getting one any time soon. That said, I can't wait till we get the house and I can once again have a permanent desk location. I want to try my recording setup for gaming again. It was fun to be that over-the-top.


----------



## AxelCloris

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Is using a 3.5MM to RCA adapter to go from a soundcard to a Magni a bad idea?


 
  
 If the sound card can do line out, not at all.


----------



## itchie

If anyone is looking to buy the Plyr 1, looks like Best Buy has them on sale now for $129...
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/plyr1-gaming-wireless-headset-for-xbox-360-and-playstation-3/8828355.p


----------



## AxelCloris

Hmm, might be a good time to try those puppies out.


----------



## lttlfld

Question about the sony MA900... When you are wearing them, if you shake your head back and forth side to side or tilt your chin all the way down, do they move?  I found a pair of them open box in the sony store for $150, but now that I have them at home, I am noticing that they are not staying on my head very well.  Thoughts anyone?  When i look down the back of the pads slide all the way to the back of my ears where they finally stop.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Like I said, inconsistent drivers. You just didn't get a premium DT770 that sounded like the MMX300. They are out there. Again, the MMX300 doesn't just have one sound either.
> 
> There have been both bass heavy MMX300 and bass light/balanced.


 
  
 How can you tell them apart without having to audition them first?
  


evshrug said:


> Also, three words:
> 
> Mac Pro.
> 
> HNNNNNNNNNGH!


 
  
 I'm gonna be honest, I don't like the new Mac Pro's design for a few reasons:
  
 -Those graphics cards sure look proprietary to me...as does everything else in the Mac Pro, actually. Goodbye, upgradability! Hello, planned obsolescence!
 -The thermal core idea is interesting, but they cheaped out and used aluminum instead of copper, presumably to keep the weight down. I'd rather have better cooling performance.
  
 Then again, as a custom-building PC enthusiast, Apple's direction pretty much goes against everything I stand for, best represented in this huge Corsair 800D tower next to me, crammed with a custom water-cooling loop and carefully picked PC parts. I'd probably rather Hackintosh or try and find an old Mac Pro on the cheap (yeah, right).
  
 Speaking of Hackintoshing, that's probably something I could do with my old Q6600 box right now...


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> How can you tell them apart without having to audition them first?
> 
> 
> I'm gonna be honest, I don't like the new Mac Pro's design for a few reasons:
> ...


 
  
 I've entertained the idea of making a hackintosh myself, but right now I find my mind drifting towards the notion that building a Steam Machine could be a better use of time.


----------



## theiron

Anyone have a solution for the Astro Mixamp 5.8 chat cable? I have the mixamp but would like to be able to chat with people on my PC/PS3. I can't seem to find this cable anywhere.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/New-ASTRO-Gaming-USB-Chat-Cable/dp/B005ETV4LQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

axelcloris said:


> I've entertained the idea of making a hackintosh myself, but right now I find my mind drifting towards the notion that building a Steam Machine could be a better use of time.


 
 Keep in mind that SteamOS isn't meant to replace a desktop OS. It's meant for the living room.


----------



## AxelCloris

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Keep in mind that SteamOS isn't meant to replace a desktop OS. It's meant for the living room.


 
  
 Exactly. I already have a MBP and it's my main computer. A hackintosh might not get as much dedicated use. But the ability to stream from the MBP to a Steam Machine could be just what I'd need.
  
 Granted, buying one is simpler. And that iBuyPower model seems interesting. Can't wait to see more specs.


----------



## ABK792

itchie said:


> If anyone is looking to buy the Plyr 1, looks like Best Buy has them on sale now for $129...
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/plyr1-gaming-wireless-headset-for-xbox-360-and-playstation-3/8828355.p


 
 I have a stupid question. Since I only have an SPDIF out on my PC would these not work for me?


----------



## Sanctuary

cubemonkeynyc said:


> I asked this recently.
> 
> Get a Xonar soundcard. Anything from the DGX to STX, depending on how much you want to spend. Then hook that up to a Schiit Magni amp. You can get both from Amazon/Newegg.
> 
> EDIT - Actually, if you are getting a Schiit Magni, make sure you are either getting a soundcard with an RCA output or know that you may also need to get a 3.5MM to RCA adapter if the soundcard does not have RCA out.


 

 Does the STX even really benefit from an amp though?  It's plenty strong as it is.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

abk792 said:


> I have a stupid question. Since I only have an SPDIF out on my PC would these not work for me?


 
  
 Your motherboard/soundcard doesn't have a front port connector for USB or 3.5mm? If not, then yeah you would need something to convert it to whatever connector the headset has.
  


sanctuary said:


> Does the STX even really benefit from an amp though?  It's plenty strong as it is.


 
  
 Depends. I was harangued by Mad Lust Envy for not reading 1,270 pages of thread to determine this, but some headphones need a more powerful amp to be fully powered.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The STX should powerful most headphones very well. Some headphones may benefit from more, like the AKG 70x, Mad Dogs, HD650, and definitely the single digit Hifiman planars like the HE-4.

The first three mentioned do sound well with the STX's internal amp though so it's not a necessity to get a stronger amp.


----------



## chroniX

MLE how would you compare the E17+E9 combo to the Modi+Magni combo with the Q701s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17+E9k combo is warmer, and I feel has more synergy with the Q701. The Modi+Magni is highly neutral/analytical, and it may exacerbate the the Q701's shortcomings (lean-ish bass, upper mid spike).

The Q701 loves warm-ish SS amps, IMHO.

However, don't let that keep you from the Modi+Magni. That combo is worth it, it just may not be the most ideal for the Q701. Overall, the M+M is a better combo than the E17+E9K SQ-wise. The E17+E9 has more versatility though, with multiple inputs, including optical.

As for SS amp differences, they are subtle. Don't expect a highly noticeable change. If I could make up numbers, I'd say something along the lines of it being the last 2% difference in a headphone's innate sound. As long as a headphone has enough power to funcytion at it's optimal level, differences won't be big, and sometimes unnoticeable.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

.


----------



## chroniX

mad lust envy said:


> The E17+E9k combo is warmer, and I feel has more synergy with the Q701. The Modi+Magni is highly neutral/analytical, and it may exacerbate the the Q701's shortcomings (lean-ish bass, upper mid spike).
> 
> The Q701 loves warm-ish SS amps, IMHO.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks I already have the E17 + E9 combo so I was just wondering if it would be worth upgrading to the Schitt combo, but it sounds like from what you're saying that it wouldn't really be a noticeable upgrade and in some aspects can be considered a downgrade.
  
 Do you know the cheapest upgrade path from the Fiio combo? You see I'm very happy with the E9 but not completely sold on the E17 -- I love it's functionality and versatility, but I'm mostly going to be listening on the desktop so I'm willing to give that up if it means I can get better sound quality. I see that the Audioengine D1 is on sale, and I've seen at least one review on Amazon in which it states that the D1 provides a much larger soundstage than the E17. 
  
 But I also know how audiophiles can tend to speak in hyperbole and seeing how you have had experience with much higher end dacs I would welcome any suggestions you have.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I really like the ODAC. To me it was the best sounding dac I've owned. Even better than the Sabre es9018 dac equipped Compass 2, which cost me 600 dollars plus. However, once you hit a decent dac level, they're harder to distinguish than amps themselves. I like the E17s dac because its just slightly warm, which I sounds more enjoyable than a supremely neutral dac. However, the odac is neutral, yet smooth and more dimensional sounding than any of the dacs I owned. Just slightly.

For a pure upgrade to the Fiio combo, probably something like an odac+Mstage or Asgard 2. For me though, I love the Audio-GD amp/dac all in ones. The Compass 2 if you need an optical input, or just an nfb11.32 or cheaper, 15.32.

I wish they still sold the NFB5. Loved it.


----------



## ABK792

I have one more question. Does the Skullcandy Plyr 1 have mic monitoring (mic monitoring plays back the audio your mic is picking up to let you know how loud you're talking.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't remember. I don't think I've heard anything that monitors my voice at least to where I can adjust how loud I can hear myself. Most I've heard is perhaps some of my voice coming through game audio, but not separeate chat monitoring.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

abk792 said:


> I have one more question. Does the Skullcandy Plyr 1 have mic monitoring (mic monitoring plays back the audio your mic is picking up to let you know how loud you're talking.)


 
  
 Windows has this. You just use the windows mixer and up your mic volume. Not sure why you'd want it.


----------



## AxelCloris

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Windows has this. You just use the windows mixer and up your mic volume. Not sure why you'd want it.


 
  
 Two main reasons. First is to monitor for an open mic when using PTT. Second is to cancel out the in-head reverb caused by closed headphones. There are other reasons on an individual level but these are the two most common.
  
 As for windows, it introduces a very noticeable delay between spoken and heard. Headsets with live monitoring are much better than the monitoring built into windows.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

axelcloris said:


> Two main reasons. First is to monitor for an open mic when using PTT. Second is to cancel out the in-head reverb caused by closed headphones. There are other reasons on an individual level but these are the two most common.


 
  
 Monitor for an open mic when using PTT? What chat software are you using where that could be a problem? We use Teamspeak. Either the PTT key is pressed or it isn't.
  
 Not familiar with the reverb issue.


----------



## AxelCloris

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Monitor for an open mic when using PTT? What chat software are you using where that could be a problem? We use Teamspeak. Either the PTT key is pressed or it isn't.
> 
> Not familiar with the reverb issue.


 
  
 Over the years I've used versions of Teamspeak, Ventrilo and various voice chat systems built into games. I've run into open mics with PTT more times than I can remember.
  
 The reverb is the same effect as sticking fingers in your ears and talking, or when talking with IEMs in.


----------



## CubemonkeyNYC

axelcloris said:


> Over the years I've used versions of Teamspeak, Ventrilo and various voice chat systems built into games. I've run into open mics with PTT more times than I can remember.
> 
> The reverb is the same effect as sticking fingers in your ears and talking, or when talking with IEMs in.


 
  
 Weird. The only time I've seen an open mic on a PTT user is when they CTRL-ALT-DELETE. 
  
 I didn't think that reverb could be a problem. Must be an audiophile thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Reverb is a definite problem of closed headphones in general. Not sure on how it applies to chat, as I don't hear myself when I speak...except now with the PS4. I haven't used it enough to weigh in on how badly it affects me though.


----------



## ABK792

cubemonkeynyc said:


> Windows has this. You just use the windows mixer and up your mic volume. Not sure why you'd want it.


 
 Because If I can't hear myself well enough I talk way too loudly.


----------



## Murder Mike

Koss PortaPro $24.99 Amazon
  
 I posted this over in the Deals thread too, but cross posting here just in case someone wanted to try these and wasn't subbed to that thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, well, lookie what we have here...








Thanks to Change Is Good for the opportunity to try/review the 1840, as well as lending me the Asgard 2 for an upcoming review of another headphone or two. 

So, as you can see, both the Shure 1540 and 1840 pads fit the MA900.

Both of the pads have a felt cover, which don't match well with the MA900 which already has it's own cover. The 1540 pads = bassy as hell MA900, weird/recessed mids. The 1840 pads are closer to the stock MA900 pads, but not completely and could still be better. *THAT BEING SAID*, the 1840 comes closer to the MA900's stock pad sound, and I believe may be worth looking into acquiring and attempt removing the felt pad cover... I may do just that, as the 1840 pads are around $25. This may be what puts the MA900 as a 9.9 in comfort. .1 for the headband still needing something.

BTW, the MA900 with the Shure pads = THE MOST COMFORTABLE HEADPHONE IN EXISTENCE. Bar none, game over, don't look elsewhere. There is no comparison.

The Shure pads keep your ears from bottoming out on the MA900's driver cover, so no more partial on ear feels here.

As for the 1840? Comfort = legendary, if a little below the MA900s. 

Sound on the 1840? w/1540 pads, bass bloat, dark mids, mid recession = not worth it, IMHO. Stock 1840? Clean sounding, airy as anything I've heard outside of the Ad700, slightly bright, and the bass is tight and balanced to my ears, though definitely doesn't go too deep. reminds me of the MA900's bass drop off, though the MA900 has stronger midbass.

So far, so good on the 1840. haven't had much time, TBH, so give me awhile before I have any real feels on it's sound.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks to Change Is Good for the opportunity to try/review the 1840, as well as lending me the Asgard 2 for an upcoming review of another headphone or two.


 
  
 Can't forget to thank Axel for making it happen... because our broke behinds would have had to wait... lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, AxelCloris is my other Head-fi savior. <3


----------



## miceblue

And here comes the anti-SRH1840 brigade whipping out the ~8% THD+N measurements in the 20-300 Hz bass range. -_-


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I have to take back what I said about the 1840 having just a little less bass than the MA900. The MA900 sounds quite bassy next to the 1840. Like... the 1840 is an AD700 next to the MA900. I dunno HOW anyone complains about the MA900's bass. That baffles me actually.

As for SnR on the 1840... I can't really tell, because the bass just isn't present enough for my ears to notice quite yet. I have to do a lot more testing to hone in on it.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, I have to take back what I said about the 1840 having just a little less bass than the MA900. The MA900 sounds quite bassy next to the 1840.* Like... the 1840 is an AD700 next to the MA900*. I dunno HOW anyone complains about the MA900's bass. That baffles me actually.
> 
> As for SnR on the 1840... I can't really tell, because the bass just isn't present enough for my ears to notice quite yet. I have to do a lot more testing to hone in on it.


 
  
 I wouldn't go as far as saying it's AD700 bass (or lack there of 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)...  but more like Q701 bass. You're ears are just to used to the mid bass hump of the MA900... which is actually higher than the K712/Annie.
  
 When I first got the 1840 and briefly compared it to the K712... it felt like I had my hands on a technically refined Q701 but with a smaller soundstage. My opinion, of course...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are positively bass light., and something up top sounds....artificial? Like some upper mid glare.

There is a nice sense of air and lots of clarity, but it doesn't sound 'natural'.

I'm positive these will SLAY competitive gaming, but I think they'll be one of those I can't personally recommend for music. I mean, it's kind of like an old school K701. BETTER, but similar.

It can definitely benefit from more bass, if only to counteract the off sounding mid/upper range. I can't put my finger on it yet, but something ain't right up top.

And lol, I know it's not bass light like the Ad700. Just saying, next to the MA900, it comes off quite light. And yeah, the MA900 definitely has some midbass emphasis. Which is why I'm baffled when people saying it's lacking in bass. Sub bass, sure, but overall bass is pretty present.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> They are positively bass light., and something up top sounds....artificial? Like some upper mid glare.
> 
> There is a nice sense of air and lots of clarity, but it doesn't sound 'natural'.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I've read others go as far as saying that it sounds similar to the HD600 also. I paid $400 for it, brend new, so I'm not in that boat of disappointment like the others who paid top dollar when it first released.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I put on some bassy music.... the 1840 does NOT like bassy music. Not because it's bass light. I mean, it reminds me of the Yuin G1A. it doesn't handle bass that well. It distorts.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I put on some bassy music.... the 1840 does NOT like bassy music. Not because it's bass light. I mean, it reminds me of the Yuin G1A. it doesn't handle bass that well. It sounds stressed.


 
  
 Yup, that's why I only use it for gaming, movies,  jazz, and classical music. Put on the alcantara pads for bassy music, however, and it changes the whole spectrum.


----------



## miceblue

~8% THD+N in da bass.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Well, well, lookie what we have here...


 
  
  
 Mmmm.
  
 Dem pads, and dat comfort.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't usually pay attention to those numbers... but I mean, it's not rocket science here, it's easy to hear.

I mean, not like the 1840 was meant for that type of thing, but I guess some data does correspond with what I'm hearing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To add, it's not like the 1840's bass is a mess. For most music, I can't hear the distortion. Just on some of the heavier music, it's definitely there. But to be honest, if you're listening to heavy bass genres with the 1840, you're doing it wrong to begin with, lol. Everyone and their grandmother knows the 1840 is tilted for detail, not bass.

i find the 1840 enjoyable. Not my kind of flavor, but I like it.

The treble is quite an improvement over the MA900.


----------



## pervysage

Anyone ever use a desktop mounted mic for the Astro Mixamp? I figure they might have the potential to produce higher quality chat?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> To add, it's not like the 1840's bass is a mess. *For most music, I can't hear the distortion. Just on some of the heavier music, it's definitely there. But to be honest, if you're listening to heavy bass genres with the 1840, you're doing it wrong to begin with, lol. *Everyone and their grandmother knows the 1840 is tilted for detail, not bass.
> 
> i find the 1840 enjoyable. Not my kind of flavor, but I like it.
> 
> The treble is quite an improvement over the MA900.


 
  
 Which is exactly what the 1540 is for. Like I mentioned earlier... I use the 1840 for gaming, movies, jazz, and classical music. Everything else I do with headphones involves bass so that's when the 1540 gets its time to shine. Each are perfect compliments to each other, IMHO.
  
 The 1840 isn't really as bad as people write, to my ears, because as you can see... I chose to keep it over the K712. For it's use the 1840 was just a better fit to me. The K712 was more geared towards being a good all rounder with its slight mid bass hump. I, however, needed something a little more balanced and neutral... hence the 1840.
  
 IMHO, the 1840 is the most neutral headphone I've tried. We all have our different opinions, of course.


----------



## jumpman23j

Mad Lust Envy, which heaphone would you recommend for someone who doesn't want to wake up others in the middle of the night?  I really want the dt 990 pro but I guess they really aren't ideal, since they have sound leakage.  I was looking at the Creative Aurvana Live, are these better than the M50's?  The Creative's are on sale for $60 on Amazon while the M50's are $40 more as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For gaming, yes, the CAL is better. otherwise, they're pretty on par with one another. Can't go wrong with the CAL.


----------



## chicolom

pervysage said:


> Anyone ever use a desktop mounted mic for the Astro Mixamp? I figure they might have the potential to produce higher quality chat?


 
  
 A desktop mic may have higher sound quality (depending on the mic) since it has probably larger higher quality capsule, but I'm doubtful a desktop mic would sound as good as a boom mic_ for gaming_ for a couple of reasons.
  
 A benefit of a boom mic is that it's close to your mouth so it always has a strong signal. This means it can have a lower gain, which means less hiss and a cleaner signal.  Lower gain also means less room background noise picked up when your not talking.  So a boom mic basically gives as a better signal to noise ratio, with the "signal" being your voice and the "noise" being either hiss from the mic gain or actual room background noise. 
  
 Unless your talking right up on the desktop mic like a radio announcer (not likely when gaming) a desktop mic is going to be farther away from your mouth than a boom mic, so it will need higher gain.  So it will likely have more background hiss, _and_ it will also probably pick up more background noise in the room when your not talking.  Kind of like using a Kinect for a mic vs a headset.
  
 Boom mics are usually directional, and because of the way they're angled/pointed they can take advantage of that to try and cancel out noise coming from behind them (your headphones).  A desktop mic may be directional too, but it's pointed at you_ and your headphones_, so it's more likely to pick up the sounds coming out of an open headset (the higher gain/higher sensitivity won't help here either).


----------



## jumpman23j

mad lust envy said:


> For gaming, yes, the CAL is better. otherwise, they're pretty on par with one another. Can't go wrong with the CAL.


 
  
 Ok cool, would there be a benefit in pairing it with an amp like a fiio e17 or something similar?  Also, how is the sound leakage with the Beyerdynamic dt 990?  Can someone in the next room hear the sound coming from the dt 990?  Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.


----------



## davisman

jumpman23j said:


> Ok cool, would there be a benefit in pairing it with an amp like a fiio e17 or something similar?  Also, how is the sound leakage with the Beyerdynamic dt 990?  Can someone in the next room hear the sound coming from the dt 990?  Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it.


 
 My fiancee is extremely sensitive to noise when she is sleeping. My office is right next door to the bedroom, and I am able to use my akg annies, and he 400s and not wake her.
  
 Are you able to shut the door?


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, I have to take back what I said about the 1840 having just a little less bass than the MA900. The MA900 sounds quite bassy next to the 1840. Like... the 1840 is an AD700 next to the MA900. I dunno HOW anyone complains about the MA900's bass. That baffles me actually.


 
  
 Simple: they're bassheads who want extension down to 20 Hz.
  
 I don't think any headphone, or at least any open-back headphone, can pull that off.
  
 I've noticed a similar thing across impressions of other headphones. People speak of Lambda-series Stax like they have no bass, but if the drivers aren't defective in any way, that's far from the case. "No bass" would be the AD700.
  
 Anyway, looks like I'm in for a bassiness lottery tomorrow...or later today, technically speaking (12:33am EST). If only manufacturers would keep things consistent; it makes reviews less of a pain.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What made you go for the MMX300?

Jumpman, unless you have volume set to explode your ear drums, I don't see how anyone could complain about any open headphone aside from electrostatics, really. The DT990 definitely doesn't leak loudly enough to make any sort of unappreciable loudness from another room. I think I made that word up, lololol.

Oh, perhaps a planar like the HE400, and the rare, extremely open dynamic like the MA900...and that's only with something like 1840 pads, which lowers the volume level considerably, so you need to push out more to reach the same volume to the ears as the stock pads which basically put the drivers right next to your ears. Because the MA900's needs to be louder with the 1840 pads, all that extra volume is clearly noticeable for everyone else in the room and then some.


----------



## jumpman23j

mad lust envy said:


> What made you go for the MMX300?
> 
> Jumpman, unless you have volume set to explode your ear drums, I don't see how anyone could complain about any open headphone aside from electrostatics, really. The DT990 definitely doesn't leak loudly enough to make any sort of unappreciable loudness from another room. I think I made that word up, lololol.
> 
> Oh, perhaps a planar like the HE400, and the rare, extremely open dynamic like the MA900...and that's only with something like 1840 pads, which lowers the volume level considerably, so you need to push out more to reach the same volume to the ears as the stock pads which basically put the drivers right next to your ears. Because the MA900's needs to be louder with the 1840 pads, all that extra volume is clearly noticeable for everyone else in the room and then some.


 
  
 Aw man, now you got me in a bind because the DT990 seem really nice but I don't want to chance waking up the baby or I might get killed lol.  I was getting ready to get the Creative Aurvana Live's since they are $60 on Amazon right now.  Would the CAL's sound better paired with a Fiio E17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a swell combo. The E17 plays to the CAL's strengths, it's warmth.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> What made you go for the MMX300?


 
  
 It was cheap (less than half the current Amazon going price of $300) and I'm confident in being able to solder the replacement connector properly so it won't cut out.
  
 Plus, I wanted to know if a closed set with decent isolation would work at all for gaming with virtual surround.
  
 Most of all, I want YOU to review it, because it's really the only headset out there that isn't the PC360 with any pretense of catering to audiophiles, and you've already reviewed the PC360. Only seems fair to give the MMX300 a shot, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fair enough.


----------



## jumpman23j

mad lust envy said:


> That's a swell combo. The E17 plays to the CAL's strengths, it's warmth.


 
  
 Cool, thanks.  Ok now for a question regarding the PS4, if I happened to get the E17 and CAL's how could I get chat to work?  Would a mod mic work?  And how would this be hooked up correctly?  Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

Okay, now I'm having withdrawals...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Dear 1840...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Okay, now I'm having withdrawals...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> I'm gonna be honest, I don't like the new Mac Pro's design for a few reasons:
> 
> -Those graphics cards sure look proprietary to me...as does everything else in the Mac Pro, actually. Goodbye, upgradability! Hello, planned obsolescence!
> -The thermal core idea is interesting, but they cheaped out and used aluminum instead of copper, presumably to keep the weight down. I'd rather have better cooling performance.
> ...


 
 They're AMD FirePro cards.
  
 And no, you can't perform internal upgrades, but the computer is ridiculously powerful, and thunderbolt 2 ports on the outside allow for new external upgrade options... already they got external PCIe graphics cards working with the first version of Thunderbolt, albeit slowly, I think each thunderbolt 2 port gets like PCIe 8x bandwidth. It's possible that the Xeon processors inside may not be overclockable, so... the aluminum core (very big heatsink!!) probably was tested to be over-adequate to manage temperatures, and the point of that huge heatsink and huge fan is low rpms high efficiency cooling, so it'll probably stay cool enough while staying quieter (with lower maintenance?) than a liquid cooler pump and system.
  
 Pretty sure you don't have an interest in actually using OS X anyway... Kind of like I don't want to use Windows, it's just that for some games I HAVE to (hopefully Steambox removes that requirement?), most of the productivity and creativity apps I want to use I own for OS X. You'd probably only use OS X out of curiosity (which is fine, but I don't think you have a need for what Mac offers).
  
 All that said, the power of it is waaaaaay overkill for my needs... it would just be the second kind of cool for me to own 
 I probably should just get a 27" iMac instead, dual boot it with Steam or Windows.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> They're AMD FirePro cards.
> 
> And no, you can't perform internal upgrades, but the computer is ridiculously powerful, and thunderbolt 2 ports on the outside allow for new external upgrade options... already they got external PCIe graphics cards working with the first version of Thunderbolt, albeit slowly, I think each thunderbolt 2 port gets like PCIe 8x bandwidth. It's possible that the Xeon processors inside may not be overclockable, so... the aluminum core (very big heatsink!!) probably was tested to be over-adequate to manage temperatures, and the point of that huge heatsink and huge fan is low rpms high efficiency cooling, so it'll probably stay cool enough while staying quieter (with lower maintenance?) than a liquid cooler pump and system.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know what GPUs are being used on those cards, but honestly, do those look like cards that would fit in a typical PC case? They're not exactly off-the-shelf hardware, especially given the cooling system used. At least with the old Mac Pro and the Power Macs that preceded them, you could use whatever PCI/AGP/PCI-Express cards you wanted. And while there are external Thunderbolt PCI-Express bays, I'd be left feeling like the internal FirePro GPUs are just dead weight if I needed the external PCIe bays for graphics upgrade.
  
 Keep in mind that today's "powerful" is tomorrow's "hopelessly obsolete", hence my being in favor of upgradability. The Apple answer to that question seems to be "buy a new computer"...though they're honestly not targeting my sort anyway, the sort of people who would change graphics cards like underwear if budget permitted it.
  
 As for liquid cooling being noisy, it all depends on what parts you get. A Laing D5 (which most people know as the Swiftech MCP655 and all other sorts of rebrands) mounted properly is almost silent, and you can get radiators with low fin density, tuned to work best with slower, quieter fans that don't make much noise. It's still noisier than a completely passive-cooled setup devoid of fans, but at least in my experience, pump noise is generally drowned out by fan noise.
  
 Thus, I don't believe Apple's "heatsink core" approach is necessarily cooler and quieter...but it IS inherently lower-maintenance in that you don't have to top off a loop with distilled water every now and then.
  
 Indeed, OS X is nothing more than a curiosity for me. For that matter, the Mac I want most is a Mirrored Drive Door Power Mac G4 set up to tri-boot OS 9.2.2, OS X 10.4 Tiger and OS X 10.5 Leopard, since that covers most of the Mac software base I care about: games that haven't found their way to Windows for some reason. Unfortunately, said Macs still command a bit of a premium, like $300 or so last time I checked.
  
 Of course, when I grew up on IBM-compatibles all my life, it's only natural that I don't feel as tied to Apple. Your case is different; you've already got a lot of Mac software. (Ideally, software should be "buy one copy, get ALL the versions", but it very rarely works out that way...)
  
 In other news, UPS delayed that MMX300 delivery by a day. First impressions will have to wait.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did you get the 2013 Edition?
  
 I've been offered the K812 for a moderately good price but the measurements are somewhat dissapointing. Don't wanna spend that much. If I get an open headphone again it would have to fair better for that price. We'll see about Sennheiser.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Did you get the 2013 Edition?
> 
> I've been offered the K812 for a moderately good price but the measurements are somewhat dissapointing. Don't wanna spend that much. If I get an open headphone again it would have to fair better for that price. We'll see about Sennheiser.




Where's the measurements for it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Did you get the 2013 Edition?
> 
> I've been offered the K812 for a moderately good price but the measurements are somewhat dissapointing. Don't wanna spend that much. If I get an open headphone again it would have to fair better for that price. We'll see about Sennheiser.




Never mind, I'm an idiot. Measurements look good aside from the treble being a jagged mess, though it may only look bad, not sound bad. Everything all the way up to the patented 2khz AKG bump looks splendid..


----------



## threei

I'm thinking of getting the dt990 pro to use with my tb dss. Does anyone have experience using an amp like the fiio e11 with the DSS? Would it sound ok?


----------



## theOmni

Hey erveryone. I have a titanium HD sound card, and the akg q701. Can you please recommend a good amp for this setup?


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Did you get the 2013 Edition? [mx300]




It's an MX300 that someone was recently talking about on the forums, his cat broke the cable and the owner was willing to sell it at an insanely good price rather than get it repaired himself. I... THINK it was a 2013? Maybe end of 2012, the guy said it was pretty new but we don't know the serial number.


----------



## Evshrug

theomni said:


> Hey erveryone. I have a titanium HD sound card, and the akg q701. Can you please recommend a good amp for this setup?



Try it first straight into the sound card, later get a FiiO E09k or Shiit Vali, read reviews and pick the one matching your taste.


----------



## PurpleAngel

theomni said:


> Hey everyone. I have a Titanium-HD sound card, and the AKG Q701. Can you please recommend a good amp for this setup?


 
 Schiit Magni or Bravo Ocean would be these cheapest you would want to spend.
  
 Might trying reading up and asking questions on this thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread


----------



## jumpman23j

Mad Lust Envy, I just bought the CAL's and plan to buy a mod mic for chat.  What do I need to get it all to work on the PS4?  I plan to get a Fiio E17 as well.  Thanks!


----------



## davisman

theomni said:


> Hey erveryone. I have a titanium HD sound card, and the akg q701. Can you please recommend a good amp for this setup?


 
 If you are willing to put up with the Schiit Vali, its your best option. If not, Id get the Schiit magni.


----------



## NamelessPFG

fegefeuer said:


> Did you get the 2013 Edition?


 
  


evshrug said:


> It's an MX300 that someone was recently talking about on the forums, his cat broke the cable and the owner was willing to sell it at an insanely good price rather than get it repaired himself. I... THINK it was a 2013? Maybe end of 2012, the guy said it was pretty new but we don't know the serial number.


 
  
 I wish I could find a serial number or some other identifying mark on this thing, because I can't.
  
 What I can say is that I definitely didn't get that hard case with padded foam interior like in this review. Would've been nice to have, but the carrying bag alone should suffice.
  
 In other news:
  
 -They weren't kidding when they said the MMX300 feels like a solid, durable piece of kit. If this is an example of typical Beyerdynamic construction, it definitely feels trustworthy.
  
 -The cable quality, on the other hand...let's just say it's that cheap, thin-gauge wire I expect to see on budget headsets. I notice that part, of course, because of the spliced replacement connector I got with it that needed some work...and speaking of which, THAT tripped me up for a moment because the outer ring that you'd solder the tip/left channel connection to...wasn't actually connected to the jack's tip conductor, isolated from any actual conductive bits! Fortunately, I found a part that was conductive, made a solder bridge, and that sorted it out.
  
 This is why you keep a multimeter handy if you're gonna do any soldering work. Check those connections!
  
 In any case, now I've got a secure, solid connection so the channels aren't cutting out and making static noises of any sort. Mission accomplished!
  
 -I just noticed some thin black plastic bits in the headband breaking off and coming loose when I extended the earcups from the main headband. I'm guessing they help hold the tension so the earcups don't slide too easily. Still, that's another point off from Beyerdynamic's construction score...
  
 -This thing's a lot more comfortable than I was expecting. The velour pads are nice and cushy, the cups are deep enough that nothing's really pressing against my ears and the parts that touch rest on soft foam, and big enough to be truly circumaural, and it doesn't feel like I've got a vice on my head.
  
 -Sound isolation is moderate, for a closed set. You wouldn't wear these as earmuffs...then again, earmuffs of the sort I've been given while test-taking are insanely uncomfortable, something I'd never want in a headphone, especially a gaming headset that's going to be worn for extended periods.
  
 -I'm not finding anything immediately offensive about the sound presentation. Vocals don't sound extremely recessed, there's some sparkle, and the bass has punch. I still don't know if this is a "bass-light" or "bass-heavy" set, given that nobody says that with a clear reference point, but these are certainly bassier than the AD700.
  
 -The soundstage is surprisingly large for a closed set, at least enough for headphone virtual surround to do its thing. CMSS-3D Headphone frontal cues sound a bit weird and not as prominent compared to my usual open sets, though maybe I just need some time to get used to it. Mental burn-in, if you will. Rear cues are fine, and pretty exact to boot.
  
 EDIT: I found some distinguishing features, comparing to this eBay auction listing.
  
 -The box looks noticeably different. Less colorful, and the MMX300 is pictured at a different angle.
 -The connectors are different! They don't look so cheap this time, whereas my MMX300's mic jack (still the original, unlike the headphone jack) looks like the same kind you'd find on a cheap Logitech headset.
 -The earcups have black rims on that one. My set has silver rims.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Is that your version? Then it's the old one.


----------



## NamelessPFG

fegefeuer said:


> Is that your version? Then it's the old one.


 
  
 That's my version, all right.
  
 What did Beyerdynamic change this time?


----------



## theOmni

davisman said:


> If you are willing to put up with the Schiit Vali, its your best option. If not, Id get the Schiit magni.




I can consider either as they're both $20 Within each other. What makes the vali better?


----------



## davisman

theomni said:


> I can consider either as they're both $20 Within each other. What makes the vali better?


 
 IMO the warmer Vail pairs well with akg 7 series. You cant go wrong with either, but the vali has a warm signature that adds a bit of immersion. 
  
 I wouldn't say the vali is better, but I think it pairs with the akgs better. Some would actually consider the magi a better all around amp. The vali has some limitations with more sensitive cans, and absolutely wont work with IEMS. However it is a hybrid tube design that adds some warmth to the akgs. 
  
 I use the mixamp>vali>akg k702.65ae's for console gaming, and they rock.


----------



## Evshrug

theomni said:


> I can consider either as they're both $20 Within each other. What makes the vali better?



They're different styles of amp... it's kinda hard to quantify (though some have, through even harmonic distortion numbers), but IMO tubes have an exciting, liquid mids presentation (seems to make AKG soundstage better and believable) while taking off some of the digital bite of pure SS amps. The Vali is a hybrid, so it also has the bass control of a solid-state amp.

The downsides if the Vali: like many tube amps, if you use a cellular phone nearby, you'll hear interference in the form of clicks and pops. Also, this time unlike other tube amps, you cannot swap the tubes yourself to change to a different sound character or to replace burnt-out tubes, so on average you'll need to send it to Schiit after 6-10 years of use to have the tube replaced for you (at a small cost).


----------



## NamelessPFG

One of my friends started to stream, and decided to have a Skype group call along with it.
  
 He and some of my other friends immediately noticed the leap in quality from that old desk mic I was using to the MMX 300 mic. Seems like I'm louder and clearer, they don't hear my breathing even with the boom mic's proximity to my nose and mouth (I still keep it a few centimeters away from the foam cover's edge), and even accidentally bumping the mic boom doesn't result in annoying noise on their end.
  
 I'll take that as a sign that the MMX 300's mic doesn't suck and Beyerdynamic didn't just cram any old mic onto a DT770. This is a good thing, since that mic's the only reason anyone would buy an MMX 300 over a DT770 and a ModMic.
  
 Meanwhile, I've been listening to music with it directly driven from my X-Fi Titanium HD-equipped desktop and the integrated Realtek ALC269 on my Fujitsu T901 (yeah, I bought myself a new-to-me Tablet PC to replace my aging HP 2730p recently); it's still a pleasing listen, even without a dedicated amp in the chain.
  
 Clamping force is moderate, enough to secure it on your head better than the MA900, but that also inherently means it's less comfortable over the long run. But as I said before, it doesn't feel like a painful vice on your head.
  
 Sound leakage is practically nonexistent; I can take them off with them playing at listenable volumes for my tastes, not too quiet, not too loud, and NOT hear anything whatsoever even without the headset being put on anything to close off the earcups. If you don't want to disturb the person next to you with your noise, this is your set!
  
 On the flip side, that person can still disturb YOU with his noise, if it's loud enough. As stated before, the isolation's only moderate. You've probably got better options for shutting out the outside world...but you'll likely lose out in comfort, sound quality, and relations with anyone who needs your attention.
  
 Now, as for a niche thing that only concerns PC simulation gamers...I've found that the TrackClip Pro for my TrackIR doesn't really fit on the MMX 300 headband well, especially since I have the cups only extended a notch each for my ideal fit. Seems like the best place to fit it is on the black part just before the headband padding, and even then, it BARELY fits.


----------



## Evshrug

Glad to hear that it uses a good quality mic. The variety of your gear and gadgets will never cease to amaze me ^_^


----------



## jumpman23j

What is the best way to hook up my Creative Aurvana Live's to my PS4 with a mod mic?  I was thinking of getting the fiio e17.  Would I need a mixamp as well?


----------



## NamelessPFG

jumpman23j said:


> What is the best way to hook up my Creative Aurvana Live's to my PS4 with a mod mic?  I was thinking of getting the fiio e17.  Would I need a mixamp as well?


 
  
 You should be prioritizing the Mixamp if you're getting it for PS4 use.
  
 As for connecting the ModMic...what I understand is that the Mixamp uses a 2.5mm TRS jack for the mic for some dumb reason, not the more common 3.5mm TRS that everything else uses, so you'll need an adapter. I don't know if the Mixamp includes such an adapter cable.
  
 The other thing I'm not quite sure about with the PS4 has to do with how it handles game audio output; according to Mad Lust Envy a few pages back, the PS4, if it detects a USB audio device, forcibly outputs game audio through it, not the S/PDIF output you want for Mixamp use. I'm not sure why Sony would do that; here's hoping he found an option to disable it or one was added in a firmware update or something.
  
 (I have no plans on buying a PS4 any time soon, for the record. Just the DualShock 4, maybe...)


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Hey I kind of want to set my desktop audio on the right path, basically have a desktop, X58 mobo integrated probably bad sound, a random creative soundcard lying around. If I were to drop 200$~ on a pair of headphones (kinda want a mic, but oh well) what would be good ones, and do I need an external amp or what? Not looking to sink tons of money into this, but a simple solution would be cool. I just got Siberia Elite, but not impressed so might return it to Amazon... :/
 Was thinking the Sony MDR1 seems legit, and has a inline mic, gonna test it out at a friends house soon.


----------



## Evshrug

jumpman23j said:


> What is the best way to hook up my Creative Aurvana Live's to my PS4 with a mod mic?  I was thinking of getting the fiio e17.  Would I need a mixamp as well?



The Mixamp is one option for virtual surround. I'm not yet firsthand familiar with Playstation settings, but another virtual surround option is the Recon3D USB. It accepts Optical input, but also has a PS3 mode that might be compatible with the PS4 and be a simpler solution. Works with PCs too, basically any device.


----------



## PurpleAngel

drunkentiger said:


> Hey I kind of want to set my desktop audio on the right path, basically have a desktop, X58 mobo integrated probably bad sound, a random creative sound card lying around. If I were to drop 200$~ on a pair of headphones (kinda want a mic, but oh well) what would be good ones, and do I need an external amp or what? Not looking to sink tons of money into this, but a simple solution would be cool. I just got Siberia Elite, but not impressed so might return it to Amazon... :/
> Was thinking the Sony MDR1 seems legit, and has a inline mic, gonna test it out at a friends house soon.


 
 You might try adding an Asus Xonar DG sound card ($27) to your PC, it's a low cost way for trying to improve audio quality.


----------



## Evshrug

drunkentiger said:


> Hey I kind of want to set my desktop audio on the right path, basically have a desktop, X58 mobo integrated probably bad sound, a random creative soundcard lying around. If I were to drop 200$~ on a pair of headphones (kinda want a mic, but oh well) what would be good ones, and do I need an external amp or what? Not looking to sink tons of money into this, but a simple solution would be cool. I just got Siberia Elite, but not impressed so might return it to Amazon... :/
> Was thinking the Sony MDR1 seems legit, and has a inline mic, gonna test it out at a friends house soon.



I have an X68 motherboard by Gigabyte, onboard audio is ok (used to use it for desktop speakers) but Creative products are a noticeable step up. I've heard rumblings that the Sony MDR-1 is a competitively well-performing headphone in it's segment, but I haven't read a review on it yet (share your thoughts?).

Mad mentions several good sub-$200 options in his guide here (1st page), and ones that sound best with good amping are noted as such in the reviews. One of the most recent good headphones has been mentioned by Mad on pretty much every page of this thread since he got it several months ago: Sony MDR-MA900. Read up on it in the guide, and read the whole guide while you're at it, it's a great resource to make your own conclusions from to answer your questions.



Edit: PurpleAngel beat me to responding


purpleangel said:


> You might try adding an Asus Xonar DG sound card ($27) to your PC, it's a low cost way for trying to improve audio quality.



He mentioned already having a random soundcard... Chances are it's about as good as the Xonar. If the Creative soundcard is broken though, the Xonar DG is a good starting place, also the Creative online store (fulfillment by Amazon) is having a 30% off sale till the 22nd using coupon code 30GIFT13


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I gotta say despite the few issues I have (mainly the distortion in the bass, noticeable on sinegen), laid back in bass, and sometimes unnatural tone up top...I REALLY like the Shure 1840. It's not perfect, but I'll be damned if anyone says it's not a clear, open, and overall a highly neutral sounding headphone. I think it would compete well in the under $400 range, but as it stands, it's a bit overpriced. It's like a perfected, old school K701. Not as analytical, but more enjoyable, and less fatiguing. The soundstage is smaller, but more natural and still relatively large. I haven't decided if I like it's sound more than the Q701, though it's less grating in the upper mids, though not as mid bassy.

Still, expect incredibly high marks for competitive gaming and comfort (at least a 9 on both). For fun... 6.75 at best. It's enjoyable for what it is, but the bass is just south of the mids and treble.

Change is Good, thanks a lot for the loan. I'll be putting it through it's paces soon, particularly on my days off, especially if the Alpha Dog still hasn't managed to make it to my hands. I missed the delivery, and USPS is being a piece of absolute crap right now in updating the info, and whether or not they're redelivering.


----------



## Change is Good

Have you watched any movies with it yet? Watch, and you will be like "where is that bass coming from?" Lol

Maybe its the distortion... but while watching movies it is surprisingly present sometimes. I would give it a 7 but that's jus me... and may also be owner's bias.

As for the price range, yea... the just under $400 range would be ideal. I paid $395 brand new for mine... so I'm happy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If neutral bass was a 7, I'd give the 1840 a 6.5. Mids being a 7, and treble being a 7.5.


Those numbers are like quantity, not quality.

If I were to RATE these things on my scale on how good they are:

Bass: 6.75 (A little south of neutral, though controlled and well textured. That distortion is a problem though. On the sinegen sweep, it was pretty damn noticeable)
Mids: 8 (lacks the body, warmth I prefer, but clean and nearly perfectly integrated)
Treble: 9 (clean, well extended, and well behaved)

I can't say what makes the 1840 sound a little unnatural at times though.


----------



## SaLX

Nice one Change for lending your Shure's to MLE.


> Still, expect incredibly high marks for competitive gaming


 
 Looking forward to hearing about this - as you describe Change... the 1840's work well in their predefined niche - and it would appear (tentatively) that they deliver in spades on the competitive gaming front.


----------



## Change is Good

If you could give a percentage, how often do you notice the distortion during regular use?

Also, have you tried the sinegen with the other pads? What are the results then?


----------



## DrunkenTiger

evshrug said:


> I have an X68 motherboard by Gigabyte, onboard audio is ok (used to use it for desktop speakers) but Creative products are a noticeable step up. I've heard rumblings that the Sony MDR-1 is a competitively well-performing headphone in it's segment, but I haven't read a review on it yet (share your thoughts?).
> 
> Mad mentions several good sub-$200 options in his guide here (1st page), and ones that sound best with good amping are noted as such in the reviews. One of the most recent good headphones has been mentioned by Mad on pretty much every page of this thread since he got it several months ago: Sony MDR-MA900. Read up on it in the guide, and read the whole guide while you're at it, it's a great resource to make your own conclusions from to answer your questions.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah I mean I haven't read many in depth reviews of the MDR1s, I might add I would really want a closed rather than open headphone, otherwise I would probably own the MA900 already because it seems amazing  I just really don't want sound leakage. Also I've heard people say that a soundcard really isn't necessary or sometimes harmful to audio, I have no clue what basis that's on, same people said best thing is just to plug your headphones into a simple external dac/amp and call it a day. That being said I really like Creative's new technologies, so I wouldn't be strictly opposed to buying one of their soundcards (SoundBlaster Z? It's just the ZxR without all the fluff I don't want) and plugging in a good headphone/headset into, the issue with that is that it takes up a PCIe slot, and that would mean on a future computer build I would kind of have to not go Mini-ITX  as to have at least 1 extra slot besides my graphics card to support the card....
 Really appreciate the help guys, audio is a very ambiguous domain so I'm just being open minded as much as I can lol
 Summary: Is the best thing to plug an AMP into the onboard sound or USB and run headphones through that?
 EDIT: Ok so the soundcard lying around my closet is a Xi-Fi Titanium from 2007. I'll see if it still works but since it came with my alienware desktop I can probably get a replacement for it under warranty since I got that extended warranty like 4 years ago haha


----------



## PurpleAngel

evshrug said:


> Edit: PurpleAngel beat me to responding
> He mentioned already having a random sound card... Chances are it's about as good as the Xonar. If the Creative sound card is broken though, the Xonar DG is a good starting place, also the Creative online store (fulfillment by Amazon) is having a 30% off sale till the 22nd using coupon code 30GIFT13


 
 Tried the coupon code (twice), did would not work (for me).
 Where did the code come from?
  
 Found the listing for the code, say "select" items, guess the SB-Z (SB1500) is not one of those items.
  
 But the code (30GIFT13) might work for the Creative Labs Omni 5.1 external sound card.


----------



## avens

After all that discussion some time ago, I still haven't bought the new headphones . Was inclined towards the 598, but those things are really, really ugly.
  
 What would you say are the very best (though not sennheiser 800 price) headphones for competitive gaming .... that aren't discontinued like the AD700? The AKG K701?
  
 The jump is from soundstage modded senn 555, regarded as pretty good.


----------



## Change is Good

avens said:


> After all that discussion some time ago, I still haven't bought the new headphones . Was inclined towards the 598, but those things are really, really ugly.
> 
> What would you say are the very best (though not sennheiser 800 price) headphones for competitive gaming .... that aren't discontinued like the AD700? The AKG K701?
> 
> The jump is from soundstage modded senn 555, regarded as pretty good.




If the 598 is "really, really ugly" than what is the AD700? 

Try finding you one of the new model K702s with the flat headband and call it a day, my friend...


----------



## avens

Ugly and uncomfortable.
  
 Yeah, I'll go for AKG. Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

PS4 in stock at Amazon!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> PS4 in stock at Amazon!


 
  
 Have it shipped as quickly as Monday!
  
 Unfortunately a cop decided that I needed less of my money last night.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Have it shipped as quickly as Monday!
> 
> Unfortunately a cop decided that I needed less of my money last night.


----------



## SaLX

Why do N. American cops always have moustaches? Try that look in Scotland and there would be total anarchy =  a complete breakdown in social order - basically as we'd be absolutely pissing ourselves laughing.
  
*Edit* At least he wasn't pulling his knob out as he was walking in that photo.....  Silly thing to say.


----------



## chicolom

*Change*, you're selling your iDac _and_ your HRT MS II?
  
Doesn't that mean you'll be DAC-less, or do you have another one I'm not aware of?
  
 Oh, nevermind.  I saw that you wrote you'll keep whichever one doesn't sell.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> *Change*, you're selling your iDac _and_ your HRT MS II?
> 
> Doesn't that mean you'll be DAC-less, or do you have another one I'm not aware of?


 
  
 I'm keeping whichever does not sell...


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Does anyone here know anything or have experience with the SoundBlaster Omni usb soundcard/amp? It's on sale for 60% on Amazon and seems to be almost feature equivalent to the SoundBlaster Z, which is good, and it USB based so it's fairly convenient.
  
 I want to pair a new pair of headphones with one of the soundblaster cards, just not sure which one. In terms of headphones, the JVC HA S680 seems promising and cost effective. I just don't like the cables layout on it.


----------



## jumpman23j

evshrug said:


> The Mixamp is one option for virtual surround. I'm not yet firsthand familiar with Playstation settings, but another virtual surround option is the Recon3D USB. It accepts Optical input, but also has a PS3 mode that might be compatible with the PS4 and be a simpler solution. Works with PCs too, basically any device.


 
  
 I might have to look into this because I have no idea if the mixamp or Recon3d is better quality wise.


----------



## jumpman23j

Mad Lust Envy can you tell me how you are hooking up your headphones and mic to your PS4 at the moment?  Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

jumpman23j said:


> I might have to look into this because I have no idea if the mixamp or Recon3d is better quality wise.


 
  
 It's all subjective, but I think most in here prefer Dolby Headphone over virtual surround. I've had both, and slightly preferred the mixamp because of DH...


----------



## jumpman23j

change is good said:


> It's all subjective, but I think most in here prefer Dolby Headphone over virtual surround. I've had both, and slightly preferred the mixamp because of DH...


 
  
 I see, well I guess I'll have to get the mixamp than.  Question is, how do I get a mod mic setup properly to be used with the PS4?


----------



## Change is Good

Others have mentioned jus plugging it straight into the PS4 controller with a Y-cable. I, however, just plug it into the mixamp...
  
 The PS4 is _extremely_ picky with reading the mixamp, properly, for the chat function to work. You must first turn on your controller, pick the user for the controller, plug in the mixamp, turn it on, and then pick the user for the headset. You must make sure you do it in that order for it to work.


----------



## Klawsome

I'm getting the *AudioTecnica ATH-A900X Headphones *with the *Creative Sound Blaster Z soundcard*.
 I was recommended this soundcard since I honestly don't know much about them. I'v posted enormous essay sized threads about my very specific needs for a gaming headset and finally decided on the A900X's and to just get a seperate mic. Now they are just basic stereo as far as I know but I need very precise surround sound for gaming. I'm specifically looking for 7.1 surround sound for gaming but i'v heard the Creative Sound Blaster Z soundcard only outputs in 5.1. Now are there really any good soundcards out there that can put out real sounding 7.1 surround sound for my A900X's? Is it possible  or should I just get a Sound Blaster Z? My price range is $100 and below for a soundcard. I could go higher if needed though.


----------



## jumpman23j

change is good said:


> Others have mentioned jus plugging it straight into the PS4 controller with a Y-cable. I, however, just plug it into the mixamp...
> 
> The PS4 is _extremely_ picky with reading the mixamp, properly, for the chat function to work. You must first turn on your controller, pick the user for the controller, plug in the mixamp, turn it on, and then pick the user for the headset. You must make sure you do it in that order for it to work.


 
  
 Are you using a mod mic as well?  Or do you have a gaming headset?


----------



## Change is Good

I have a mic


----------



## jumpman23j

change is good said:


> I have a mic


 
  
 Is it the AntLion one?  How is it and is it worth $34?


----------



## Change is Good

No... it is not... sorry...


----------



## AxelCloris

jumpman23j said:


> Is it the AntLion one?  How is it and is it worth $34?




The modmic is worth it if you want a boom. I used to own one. That said I've been playing with the cheap DX clip on mic with my 650s lately and Evshrug hasn't had any issues hearing me. I'm impressed with it for a cheap mic.

For my boom mic now I use the V-Moda BoomPro on my headphones with a removable cable. I like the all in one design more for roughly the same price.


----------



## davisman

IMO the older version of the modmic was excellent. The new version is too long, and makes for akward placing. It is still better than a clip on IMO.


----------



## TwelveTrains

I have tested sound levels of gaming microphones using Window's "listen to this device" feature of inputs. I found that a cheap desktop mic wasn't very good and picked up a lot of background noise. The Zalman was louder but picked up my clothes and keyboard noise quite a bit. Then I got the Modmic and personally found it wonderful. Loud and clear with the best signal to noise ratio. 

If you find the Modmic too long you can always make a loop in the boom to shorten it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

change is good said:


> It's all subjective, but I think most in here prefer Dolby Headphone over virtual surround. I've had both, and slightly preferred the mixamp because of DH...



Dolby Headphone IS virtual surround, at least one particular implementation of it.

Anything that provides surround sound over stereo headphones using HRTF or similar techniques is virtual surround. It doesn't specifically mean DH or SBX or CMSS-3D or anything else that's a particular implementation of the technique.


----------



## Change is Good

namelesspfg said:


> Dolby Headphone IS virtual surround, at least one particular implementation of it.
> 
> Anything that provides surround sound over stereo headphones using HRTF or similar techniques is virtual surround. It doesn't specifically mean DH or SBX or CMSS-3D or anything else that's a particular implementation of the technique.




Sorry, forgot to type "other" after "over." Thanks for clarifying...


----------



## Change is Good

Random Thought: You know what headphone would probably benefit the most from the alcantara pads? The 940...........


----------



## NamelessPFG

I'm not quite sure what that Alcantara stuff is, but Fanatec made a selling point of it on their Porsche-branded racing wheels. That stuff must feel particularly nice.
  
 As for the general preference for Dolby Headphone in this thread compared to other tech, I can think of a few reasons:
  
 -This is mostly console gaming-centric, which already means CMSS-3D, SBX and Razer Surround, among others, are automatically not an option due to being PC-only.
  
 -Of the remaining ones for which there are devices designed for console use or at least general home theater use, Dolby Headphone is indeed among the better ones. Any significant upgrades require a vast price jump into the $1,000+ range, namely the Beyerdynamic Headzone and Smyth Realiser systems, and those still won't handle voice chat mixing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really wanna test SBX extensively. I really liked the short demos of it, and I feel is the next upgrade from Dolby Headphone. Creative needs to hurry up with an external spdif version.

Whenever work is dead, I play, and I use THX tru studio. Much too lazy to detach my Xonar U3 from my usb hub at home. THX TS works fine the vast majoroty of the time. There are a few games that don't mesh with it, but they probably don't do well with DH either.

Change, as for how often the bass distorts on the 1840, I haven't tested at length (been gaming mostly), though since I've been very cautious of the AD being delivered, I listened to music on the 1840 at low volumes. It's a very enjoyable low volume headphone due to it's clarity and neutral sound.

Nameless, the alcantara is... the best thing. Seriously, better than pure velour. I feel the 1540 pads are amazing, over the 1840 pads. But it recesses the mids a bit for me, on the 1840 and MA900.

If it hadnt, id have asked Change for the 1540 pads for the MA900 instead, lol.


----------



## SaLX

klawsome said:


> I'm getting the *AudioTecnica ATH-A900X Headphones *with the *Creative Sound Blaster Z soundcard*.
> I was recommended this soundcard since I honestly don't know much about them. I'v posted enormous essay sized threads about my very specific needs for a gaming headset and finally decided on the A900X's and to just get a seperate mic. Now they are just basic stereo as far as I know but I need very precise surround sound for gaming. I'm specifically looking for 7.1 surround sound for gaming but i'v heard the Creative Sound Blaster Z soundcard only outputs in 5.1. Now are there really any good soundcards out there that can put out real sounding 7.1 surround sound for my A900X's? Is it possible  or should I just get a Sound Blaster Z? My price range is $100 and below for a soundcard. I could go higher if needed though.


 
 You are labouring under some false assumptions straight off the bat. 7.1, 5.1 and 2.1 are by definition physical speaker setups, and as such are misleading in terms of gaming headphones. Preferably you would use the term _virtual surround_. With a good headphone or headset, (preferably open) the surround DSP from your soundcard will give you the sensation of being in a 3D space: 7.1 etc means they are trying to emulate a given number of physical speakers. If I said "19.1 setup" that would be as equally unhelpful. Nameless has a great thread on here where this is discussed at length - anyways.... check out the image below: we know it's a fake, we know it's not tiny, yet our brains say _it is what it is. _(Sorry if this is a crap example folks).
  

 Dolby Headphone, Creative's CMSS 3D and new SB Pro Studio all work _extremely_ well in stereo - depending on the game and other factors including the quality of the headphones, soundcard etc.  Any goon that tries to tell you that a true 7.1 headphone with a load of ittie bittie speakers stuffed into it are having you on. Yes they mimic spatiality very well in some cases, _but all else suffers. _Maybe one day they will give quality headphones a challenge though.  
  
 So yes... I would say you've made an extremely good choice in the AD700 and the Sound Blaster Z - they would complement eachother very well. I assume you've pored over MLE's front page? Myself, I'd probably tilt to the Senn PC360 for the pure utility of having a mic, plus they're not purple. Also they're too expensive for you oops sorry. Maybe wait for the new ATH gaming headset (based on the AD700) if you get the cash for Xmas??? (somebody please send MLE a set).
  
 Further required reading is this post by Benbekr (somebody, somewhere stickie this _for the love of gawd_): http://www.overclock.net/t/1392877/a-couple-questions-about-cmss-3d-dolby-headphone-and-similar-technologies


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone know of an open/velour padded headphone with a detachable 3.5mm cable? Perhaps one in the future for me with the vmoda mic cable thing.

X1 is one of them, but I get mid bass fatigue from it...

I forget if the 558 meets the requirement.


----------



## Change is Good

I really want you to try the 1540 after you are caught up with all your reviews and tak a break... so you can be well rested and energized. I'm amazed at how well it's been handling my competitive gaming PS4 binge 

Sinc many people come in asking for closed headphone suggestions, it would be nice to add it with the MD and AD (assumption) as top suggestions. And if you ever get a chance to try the HP100 it would be a great suggestion for closed headphones in mid tier.

I know closed headphones aren't ideal for gaming, but some people need them. Glad to see that the AD is being added soon.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of an open/velour padded headphone with a detachable 3.5mm cable? Perhaps one in the future for me with the vmoda mic cable thing.
> 
> X1 is one of them, but I get mid bass fatigue from it...
> 
> I forget if the 558 meets the requirement.


 Soundmagic HP200


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a closed headphone to recommend for most things... lets just call it something like a closed X1, but better bass control, and from a company you'd never expect. That's all I can say.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone know of an open/velour padded headphone with a detachable 3.5mm cable? Perhaps one in the future for me with the vmoda mic cable thing.


 
  
 What about MA900 + modmic?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I have a closed headphone to recommend for most things... lets just call it *something like a closed X1, but better bass control*, and from a company you'd never expect. That's all I can say.


 
  





  
 I swear that just described the 1540! lol


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I have a closed headphone to recommend for most things... lets just call it something like a closed X1, but better bass control, and from a company you'd never expect. That's all I can say.


 
  
 Beats??


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> What about MA900 + modmic?


 
  
 I think his intentions are to have just one cable...


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Beats??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I think his intentions are to have just one cable...




That would be correct.

As for Beats...not quite, but getting close. Thats all I will say.

All I will say is that its so good, I would ship it to you guys to break the stigma.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> That would be correct.
> 
> As for Beats...not quite, but getting close. Thats all I will say.
> 
> All I will say is that its so good, I would ship it to you guys to break the stigma.


 
  
 I forgot the HP200 doesn't come with velours... but have heard good things about the beyer 770 pads on them. It's the closest thing that I can think of, though I'm not positive the Vmoda mic will fit due to the deep insert where you connect the cable on the HPs.
  
 And aw man... I think I know what it is. I won't let the cat out of the bad like Axel, however, with the ADs lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Edited


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> That would be correct.
> 
> As for Beats...not quite, but getting close. Thats all I will say.
> 
> All I will say is that its so good, I would ship it to you guys to break the stigma.


 
  
 Ultrasone? Soul? Fanny Wang? Bose?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote: 





axelcloris said:


> Ultrasone? Soul? Fanny Wang? Bose?


----------



## Change is Good

Evs, Axel.... order a PS4 and BF4! I need squad mates...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Evs, Axel.... order a PS4 and BF4! I need squad mates...


 
  
 But Mr Cop said I shouldn't have those 150 dollars. He made me sad. And honestly I don't see myself buying a PS4 until the first price drop. There's no exclusives that I care about right now. Everything on the PS4 I'd want to play I can play on PC/Mac.
  
 For those who DO have money, there's a sale going on over at Square Enix. Check it out.
 http://store.na.square-enix.com/store/sqenixus/en_US/list/categoryID.63256100/


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> But Mr Cop said I shouldn't have those 150 dollars. He made me sad. And honestly I don't see myself buying a PS4 until the first price drop. There's no exclusives that I care about right now. Everything on the PS4 I'd want to play I can play on PC/Mac.
> 
> For those who DO have money, there's a sale going on over at Square Enix. Check it out.
> http://store.na.square-enix.com/store/sqenixus/en_US/list/categoryID.63256100/


 
  
 Damnit I need a PC/Mac...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I own a ps4 and I concur. Not worth it right now. This time next year, I'm sure it will be much more attractive.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I'm guessing you don't do Battlefield?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I own a ps4 and I concur. Not worth it right now. This time next year, I'm sure it will be much more attractive.


 
  
 This time next year would be a great time to buy. January would be an even better time as we should see Greatest Hits games filtering in around Christmas if Sony sticks to the old model of 1 calendar year before going GH. If this console generation is anything like last we should see a price drop around 18 months into the cycle. That's probably when I'd get on board. A PS3 for $300 would be an instant buy for me at that point when I can get several excellent $20-30 games with it.


----------



## chicolom

Speaking of sales, just a reminder that there are a lot of holiday PC game sales going on right now (Steam, Amazon, etc).
  
 Prepare your wallets...


----------



## Change is Good

Damnit I need a PC/Mac!!!

*in case no one heard me the first time*


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Damnit I need a PC/Mac!!!
> 
> *in case no one heard me the first time*


 
  
 They're cheap. Mine was only $2300 with my student discount at the time.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> They're cheap. Mine was* only $2300* with my student discount at the time.


 
  
 What a steal!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, I'm guessing you don't do Battlefield?




Nah. Too slow paced and too big for me. I'm a run n gunner, lone wolf. Battlefield is death for players like me.


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> Tried the coupon code (twice), did would not work (for me).
> Where did the code come from?
> 
> Found the listing for the code, say "select" items, guess the SB-Z (SB1500) is not one of those items.
> ...



I got it in an email from creative, but it's also listed in the special offers section of the Sound Blaster Omni page. It's annoyingly not very clear which things are included in the sale.




change is good said:


> Evs, Axel.... order a PS4 and BF4! I need squad mates...





axelcloris said:


> Have it shipped as quickly as Monday!
> 
> Unfortunately a cop decided that I needed less of my money last night.



I do want the PS4. However, I'm not particularly drawn to BF4 from the ads, I actually enjoyed BF3 at first but found it hard to make headway on my 360. I actually have BF3 for both 360 and Windows, I had fun on the PC version but I'm not craving the game as much as Borderlands 2, StarCraft2, and Skyrim. I actually had the whole day off today, and didn't spend a minute playing games! @.@

I bet the PS4 is sold out again by now, anyway. I'll probably get one in January, but the game I'm really looking forward to, THE GAME, is Destiny... which just had a release date of September announced. Hopefully with that polish time they see fit to implement TrueAudio. I have highly enjoyed playing with Head-Fi friends.



jumpman23j said:


> I might have to look into this because I have no idea if the mixamp or Recon3d is better quality wise.



I haven't heard the Mixamp to be honest, but it seems there is audible background hiss (by reports, low enough to get used to) and quality control issues with the chat knob. I DO have a Turtle Beach DSS, which also uses Dolby Headphone exactly like the Mixamp. It doesn't handle chat (I just plug a mic straight into my controller, good to go after adjusting a few settings), but I only hear background hiss with sensitive headphones, and the bass boost dial makes for nice sub-bass ambiance-boosting.

I personally prefer the solutions I've heard from Creative... they're more advanced, with DH I hear a little reverb (a little of the "cave-like" sound) while not so much with THX TSP from the Recon3D or SBX PS from the Soundblaster Z. I imagine the Omni will sound very similar to the Z once it arrives.

In the end though, it's all personal preference. There are several fans of each type of virtual surround processing in this thread alone, and more in the wild. Check my guide thread on different Virtual Surround DSPs (such as DH and CMSS-3D) linked in my signature for more info and some samples.



change is good said:


> It's all subjective, but I think most in here prefer Dolby Headphone over virtual surround. I've had both, and slightly preferred the mixamp because of DH...



D'oh, I kinda rolled my response to this in with the last section. DH (*Which is also a kind of virtual surround, you goof!* You've been around long enough to know better, "... Headphone other Virtual..." doesn't work grammatically  ) is good, but I notice the reverb and prefer THX and SBX. If you imagine a 5.1 or 7.1 surround speaker setup, there is no speaker directly behind you, just two satellites at like the clock positions of 7:30 and 4:30... DH's reverb fills in that space between those two speaker positions and makes it sound more distant than where it would be at halfway along a straight line between those speakers, but THX (and SBX) at 100% surround adds a tiny bit of distance to do the same as Dolby Headphone mode 2 while having less reverb and IMO better balance less distortion. YMMV, this is just why I slightly prefer solutions from Creative for "home theater speaker" designed surround, though of course 3D surround like OpenAL and TrueAudio that was designed from the ground up for headphones and *not* limited to a number of speaker channels is always superior if available (which DH does not work with).

I'm gonna come out and start a discussion, lol. I'd *never* recommend the Mixamp myself as "the best option". I've read too many quality control issues, and they all have some degree of background hiss independent of volume (verified by MLE numerous times). The *only* feature it has over a cheaper (~$100 less) DSS is chat mixing, and even that doesn't work well because it vampire's power from game audio (and I believe Mad says his current one causes distortion unless the mix is turned fully to Game audio) AND with most games you can get the same effect using XBox's dynamic ducking feature or just going to a games settings options and turning down game audio till you have a nice balance with chat volume. So, here's my challenge: *Why would you spend an extra $100 on the Mixamp instead of a DSS, if you must have DH?*


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah. Too slow paced and too big for me. I'm a run n gunner, lone wolf. Battlefield is death for players like me.


They made an emphasis on making the TDM maps smaller for players like yourself. Its all I've been playing actually so I could rank up fast. TDM and Domination are VERY fast paced. I'm sure you missed Domination on BF3 as it was part of an expansion pack. If you know someone with it... try it... you'll love those two modes. And Rush is fast paced, too!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I also dont like how the guns feel and fire. CoD is arcadey fun. Bf is more realistic with distance drops, etc. Thats cool and all, but I like the fast paced simplicity that CoD offers. Mindless fun, lol.

The only BF I liked was BF2: Modern Combat on the 360. Was my first FPS ever. I got BC1, and rented BC2. Own BF3 on pc. Just not liking the frostbite BFs.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> They're cheap. Mine was only $2300 with my student discount at the time.



A 27" iMac with strong midrange (most/all current games at max settings, playing with resolution and AntiAliasing will let you enable all the goodies with future games requiring enough to tax a GTX 770 or 780, better graphics potential than the new consoles) will cost less than that. I'll probably pick up a $1,800 model (with a discount) next year, though I wish they had Thunderbolt 2 (like the Mac Pro, which could potentially run triple SLI or Crossfire with cards externally, in addition to the already awesome dual GPUs built-in). The Mac game library is growing, though creating a Windows bootcamp partition is always an option.

Still, I understand you were making a joke


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I really wanna test SBX extensively. I really liked the short demos of it, and I feel is the next upgrade from Dolby Headphone. Creative needs to hurry up with an external spdif version.
> 
> Whenever work is dead, I play, and I use THX tru studio. Much too lazy to detach my Xonar U3 from my usb hub at home. THX TS works fine the vast majoroty of the time. There are a few games that don't mesh with it, but they probably don't do well with DH either.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quite a shame the SB Omni doesn't have an S/PDIF INput with Dolby Digital (and DTS) DEcoding...
  
 You're really trying to sell me on this Alcantara stuff, aren't you? Well, you almost had me...up until the recessed mids part. I can't have that!
  
 I was especially hoping for the possibility of Beyerdynamic-compatible Alcantara pads that might be more comfortable than their nice velour pads, and possibly even bring out the mids a little more, to level out this MMX 300 a bit...speaking of which, you wanna review that any time soon? I know the whole "spliced headphone connector" thing might have you concerned, but I'm confident in my handiwork fixing that up.
  


change is good said:


> Mad, I'm guessing you don't do Battlefield?


 


mad lust envy said:


> Nah. Too slow paced and too big for me. I'm a run n gunner, lone wolf. Battlefield is death for players like me.


 
  
 Aw, damn, was hoping for some classic Battlefield together now that you're warming up to PC gaming. If nothing else, BF1942's Berlin map is actually kinda small and infantry-focused more than anything.
  
 Still, I'm also wondering why you aren't into Unreal Tournament or Quake III Arena/Quake Live yet. Now THAT'S running-'n-gunning...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those games are TOO fast paced, lol.

nameless, as for the MMX300... I'll need some time for that and the 1540. Pretty soon, I think times are gonna get even rougher for me, so we'll see.

I just got the Alpha Dogs as I was in deeeeeep sleep (no headtime yet), so that takes priority over the 1840, if only because I'm on a stricter timeframe with them.

Considering they're both aimed at neutrality, it will be interesting comparing the two.

I think neutral headphones really make the best low level listening. Warm headphones tend to sound a little muffled at low levels.


----------



## miceblue

chicolom said:


> Speaking of sales, just a reminder that there are a lot of holiday PC game sales going on right now (Steam, Amazon, etc).
> 
> Prepare your wallets...



I'm considering buying the Bioshock bundle. I've read a ton of positive things about the series, but the story just seems too dark for my liking.

Maybe Mirror's Edge will be more to my liking? I can't wait to see how that game turns out for the Oculus Rift if it ever happens.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> That would be correct.
> 
> As for Beats...not quite, but getting close. Thats all I will say.
> 
> All I will say is that its so good, I would ship it to you guys to break the stigma.




I know you're waiting for a big reveal... but for the record, I would guess a skullcandy/Astro product? If so, you've already started to break that stigma with the SLYR and PLYR.
It's always 4:20 somewhere...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, nope.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh man... yes, you might just have to send me the MA900 as you intended lol. These long sessions with the 1540 w/Alphas tend to make my ears hot. And you have my only pair of alcantaras as I sold the others about a week ago


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I could always ship the Alcantara pads alone, for dirt cheap. I'd rather ship everything all at once.

My budget right now is killer.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea you can do that. Guess you're not really going to be using them so that makes sense


----------



## Change is Good

Never mind, just remembered about the extra velours that came with the 1840... so just going to use those...
  
 Save your mullah... and take your time...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I forgot to ask, how does the 1540 sound with the 1840 velours? I'm sure bass will be reduced by quite a bit, but is it offensive?

I think the 1540 pads are the best pads I've ever felt in comfort out of all pads, ever. They'd make the MA900 even better than the 1840 pads, but it just doesn't suit them at all. Perhaps the only one to rival it would be the original K701 pads, which were firm but airy and always comfy. They felt a little different from the K70x pads of today.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Irresistible K812 Pro Hype in various German forums. Must resist. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


Spoiler: :>



although you have to admit that it's definitely a headphone one should listen to sometime.


----------



## Change is Good

Velours on the 1540 sounds _somewhat_ like the 1840... but not as open?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I wouldn't be surprised if these are the same drivers... just slightly tuned with a different design...
  
 Way to take a page from AKG's book, Shure...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Alpha Dogs... very short session, but Dan has definitely delivered on the promise of an open sounding closed headphone. Also, I thought it'd sound too sterile. Not so. As I hear it right now... the Alpha Dog is absolutely the real deal.

I wish I had the MD 3.2 to compare, but as I remember it, the AD is definitely on a higher level, though the tonality on the MD 3.2 may be a little more enjoyable for me. Not to say the AD isn't. It's fantastic so far.

Definitely needs amping. The Asgard 2 is on the right side on high gain. Yikes.


----------



## martin vegas

Anyone know what in ear monitors are good for gaming?


----------



## HollowNoise

Hey Mad Lust, I've been following your thread for quite a while now, and I have come to a conclusion that I'll get the MA900 for X-Mas. First, it was the Sennheiser HD 598 or the Q701, and then I saw the MA900. And it seems that it has exactly what I'm looking for in a headphones. These are going to be my first audiophile headphones, and I'm mainly using them for Gaming, Movies and Music. I'll use them with my SBZ Sound Card. Although I'll wait for a price drop because they're going for about $230 on both Amazon and Ebay right now. Meanwhile the DT 990 Pro is going for about $150, which looks a bit tempting, but I'll probably pass on them since they are described as being "too bright", and I'm not very good with sibilance. And then I came across this comparison between the MA900 and the AKG 612 Pro.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/691053/review-and-comparison-of-the-200-open-back-underdogs-the-akg-k612-pro-and-the-sony-mdr-ma900
  
 Although I know the MA900 is not the most refined headphone, the AKG 612 Pro can't surely beat it at almost everything. It doesn't have many reviews. Do you think this guy is on his honey moon period with the AKG 612 since he got it recently?
 Wish you could try it out and give a comparison with the MA900 and the Q701, the AKG 612 is currently going for $160 on Amazon and $200 on Ebay, which is very tempting. What's your take on this?
  
 (Sorry if I posted too much, this is coming from my collective headphone research)


----------



## HollowNoise

Also, how would you compare the MA900 with the AD700, in terms of soundstage and imaging?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FWIH of the K612, it looks incredibly well balanced and a safe choice. As for what it does better, I can't say. It DOES look appealing by it's graphs.

I doubt it'd be a let down, but I can easily suggest the MA900 because I own it, love it, and don't find much, if anything wrong with it. But yeah, don't look at it for the price it's going for now.

The K612 Pro is a headphone I'd love to try at some point. Just not sure it can touch the imaging and soundstage on the MA900. Highly doubtful, really.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Anyone know what in ear monitors are good for gaming?


 
  
 Gaming with my 1964-Q is quite enjoyable. If you're looking at IEMs, try and find the largest soundstage you can. They're naturally small by design so you need to try and get the most out of it. Check out the Soundstage Head Club for some suggestions on IEMs and ear buds with decent soundstages. I also enjoyed playing games with my Etymotic HF3 when I had them, but they are in no means good for positional queues. That said, they delivered some amazing detail in my games. You can get the Etymotic MC2 on sale right now for $20 shipped. Might be worth looking into if you want a clear headphone for some light gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

martin vegas said:


> Anyone know what in ear monitors are good for gaming?


 
  
 The best soundstage I've encountered combined with good balance/tonality is the Stage Diver 3. That Inear is amazing.
  
 If I didn't have the UE 900 I'd already have one. Mobile audio for me is more casual though as I'm only safe in the train so I don't spend much there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqF9QuJ0Gws[/VIDEO]


So much HNNNNG


----------



## DoctaCosmos

i have recently played with a pair of denon ah-d600 and have been won over.
 There's two reasons that stick out and they are mostly directly related.
 The imaging.  I was first won over by these headphones for their music imaging capabilities.
 They force the music into your head like no other headphone.  Even the D2000 didn't do this for me.
 I don't have to focus on the music.  It has attached itself and all it's full body to your brain and yet doesn't
 interrupt your train of thought.
 Secondly the isolation.  I believe the isolation plays a big roll in this imaging but focus is where
 this comes into play with gaming.  I hear everything on this headphone detail wise.  Not the most smoothly detailed headphone
 but because it's not the most dynamic headphone when there is a distinct detail to be heard like footsteps, it cracks your attention sensories
 in the face.  All of my other headphones i almost get over loaded with things i'm hearing but not with these.  I felt like a call of duty ninja.
 granted they aren't as smooth of resolving as a planar or probably not as much as your akg's but they don't sound wrong either.
 These phones definitely opened up more with burn-in.
 /I wanted to hold off on reporting my findings on here because if it becomes a popular headphone the price might go up and i don't want it to
 because i still haven't bought a pair.  I need to sell my he-400's


----------



## martin vegas

Thanks for your replys.. I was thinking of getting the JH-3A DSP Amp with JH16 Pro Custom In-Ear Monitors to use with an alienware 18 gaming laptop!


----------



## Evshrug

Ahh, so I guess nobody disagrees with this?
No responses yesterday 




evshrug said:


> ...
> DH is good, but I notice the reverb and prefer THX and SBX. If you imagine a 5.1 or 7.1 surround speaker setup, there is no speaker directly behind you, just two satellites at like the clock positions of 7:30 and 4:30... DH's reverb fills in that space between those two speaker positions and makes it sound more distant than where it would be at halfway along a straight line between those speakers, but THX (and SBX) at 100% surround adds a tiny bit of distance to do the same as Dolby Headphone mode 2 while having less reverb and IMO better balance less distortion. YMMV, this is just why I slightly prefer solutions from Creative for "home theater speaker" designed surround, though of course 3D surround like OpenAL and TrueAudio that was designed from the ground up for headphones and not limited to a number of speaker channels is always superior if available (which DH does not work with).
> 
> I'm gonna come out and start a discussion, lol. I'd never recommend the Mixamp myself as "the best option". I've read too many quality control issues, and they all have some degree of background hiss independent of volume (verified by MLE numerous times). The only feature it has over a cheaper (~$100 less) DSS is chat mixing, and even that doesn't work well because it vampire's power from game audio (and I believe Mad says his current one causes distortion unless the mix is turned fully to Game audio) AND with most games you can get the same effect using XBox's dynamic ducking feature or just going to a games settings options and turning down game audio till you have a nice balance with chat volume. So, here's my challenge: Why would you spend an extra $100 on the Mixamp instead of a DSS, if you must have DH?


----------



## Totoori

Picked up some HD650s. I'm looking for some recommendations on what to pair them with. I have nothing but onboard sound and they will not leave my PC desk. I game a lot, but mostly non-FPS style games that immersion is more important than complete positional accuracy, if that helps!


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I'm gonna come out and start a discussion, lol. I'd *never* recommend the Mixamp myself as "the best option". I've read too many quality control issues, and they all have some degree of background hiss independent of volume (verified by MLE numerous times). The *only* feature it has over a cheaper (~$100 less) DSS is chat mixing, and even that doesn't work well because it vampire's power from game audio (and I believe Mad says his current one causes distortion unless the mix is turned fully to Game audio) AND with most games you can get the same effect using XBox's dynamic ducking feature or just going to a games settings options and turning down game audio till you have a nice balance with chat volume. So, here's my challenge: *Why would you spend an extra $100 on the Mixamp instead of a DSS, if you must have DH?*


 
  
 I haven't had any problems with chat mixing screwing up the sound.  And twisting a knob is a lot faster and more convenient than going into game or system menus and lowering volumes there.  When you lower the game/chat volume in the system, it's not the same effect because it dynamically drops the game audio down when chat is going on, which can be annoying to listen to.
  
 If you want to chat with the DSS your on your own with hooking the mic up to the controller, which means it will be a messier hookup with some 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapters hanging off the controller (on xbox 360 at least).
  
 So the reason to get the mixamp is for chat _convenience_. 
  
  


doctacosmos said:


> They force the music* into your head *like no other headphone.
> 
> It has attached itself and all it's full body to your brain and yet doesn't interrupt your train of thought.


 
  
 Sounds like I would hate them then, as I want the soundstage _out of my head_, not forced into it.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

come on now.  what headphone do you know of that doesn't put sound in your head? That's what imaging is.  psychoacoustics.  They all have soundstage and this one does too and a surprisingly large one.  It just has a much greater focus than most headphones. But to each his own i guess


----------



## NamelessPFG

doctacosmos said:


> come on now.  what headphone do you know of that doesn't put sound in your head? That's what imaging is.  psychoacoustics.  They all have soundstage and this one does too and a surprisingly large one.  It just has a much greater focus than most headphones. But to each his own i guess


 
  
 If that's the case, then your initial choice of words suggested exactly the opposite, that music's playing entirely in your head and not beyond, pretty much the hallmark of a small soundstage.
  
 What you might be trying to say, going by this latest post, is that the music sounds vast and all-encompassing enough beyond your head, yet is focused front and center despite that vastness, if I had to guess...


----------



## AxelCloris

totoori said:


> Picked up some HD650s. I'm looking for some recommendations on what to pair them with. I have nothing but onboard sound and they will not leave my PC desk. I game a lot, but mostly non-FPS style games that immersion is more important than complete positional accuracy, if that helps!


 
  
 It's not a desktop amp, but I've been using the E12 with the HD650s lately. It's an awesome combo. I have the iCan on loan from Chico and while I want to get it back to him quickly I also want to try it out with gaming so I'll try to get some game time in while I have it. I'd hate to keep it from him for too long. I will say that I am digging that 3D switch for music and so far it's done an excellent job pushing the 650s.
  
 Do you have a budget in mind? Maybe we can come up with an amp and soundcard in your range.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Irresistible K812 Pro Hype in various German forums. Must resist.


 
  
 Resistance is futile.


----------



## Change is Good

I've been using the E12 for gaming since I moved the M-stage to my desk... while the AG2 is with MLE. I was very impressed at how it performed when doubled up with the mixamp.

If he can push his budget, however, I'd highly recommend the iCAN.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> I have the iCan on loan from Chico and while I want to get it back to him quickly I also want to try it out with gaming so I'll try to get some game time in while I have it. I'd hate to keep it from him for too long. I will say that I am digging that 3D switch for music and so far it's done an excellent job pushing the 650s.


 
  
 No rush on getting it back.  Really. 
  
 I won't be doing any heavy headphone listening for a while, plus I've got my M-stage anyways.  So keep it as long as you like.
  
 Make sure to play around with the 3D switch and sub-bass boost.  They should work well on the HD650s.


----------



## Fegefeuer

fegefeuer said:


> Must resist.


 
  
 doh


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> So keep it as long as you like.


----------



## chicolom

chicolom said:


> So keep it as long as you like...
> 
> ...as long as you like.
> ...as long as you like.
> ...as long as you like.


----------



## kenshinhimura

^  haha


----------



## pietcux

martin vegas said:


> Anyone know what in ear monitors are good for gaming?


 

 I was on a business trip last week. Did some COD Ghosts on my Laptop with the Sony XBA-H3. The surround effect was very good and the bass is prominent, but not over powering. They also have a very good retrieval of the smallest sound details.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> If that's the case, then your initial choice of words suggested exactly the opposite, that music's playing entirely in your head and not beyond, pretty much the hallmark of a small soundstage.
> 
> What you might be trying to say, going by this latest post, is that the music sounds vast and all-encompassing enough beyond your head, yet is focused front and center despite that vastness, if I had to guess...



Haha, funny.
But seriously, in context of his first post where he said it was really forced into your head, if I put that context into my own words it would be like he's trying to say "this headphone really engages your attention." The Q701 is certainly not a small soundstage headphone, yet I find it more engaging than my AD700 did (and K712 vs MA900).



chicolom said:


> So the reason to get the mixamp is for chat _convenience_.



Fair enough.
However, my adapter is just a little half-moon-shaped solid thing that doesn't get in the way at all, I actually feel like I have more freedom of movement flexibility with my controller because it's not tied to a mixamp box, and really you just balance the game and chat audio once using the in-game settings and you don't have to mess with it again. I don't buy chat-promoting games often enough (maybe once or twice a year) that the convenience is worth $100... to me. That's like a week's food, with dinner out!


----------



## DoctaCosmos

in my first post i never mentioned anything about soundstage.  while that is a part of imaging it is only part of it.  i was talking about the engaging focus of the sound. which i made more clear in my second post.  I then mentioned soundstage because you brought it up.  Maybe because i said the music is forced in your head instead of brain.  Maybe.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

@Evshrug what is that on your controller
 link please?


----------



## Fegefeuer

....double post


----------



## Fegefeuer

What can I say after the first two hours if it had to be short? It's a (contrary to my fears, albeit exaggerated) fantastic headphone that comes closest in fullfilling the role of an allrounder (balance between fun/neutral, soundstage) of all headphones I heard.  The aspired neutrality with a better low end reproduction and a more engaging/emotional sound. That's the AKG K812 Pro, not the HD 800. The AKG to me is definitely more euphonic but I can only say this due to my familiarity of my tracks that I use all over the years for evaluation and not in a direct comparison so take this with a grain of salt.
  
 Bass body is very nice, very well-textured with deep extension and better slam. Better than the Sennheiser in fullness and impact. Listening to John Digweed - Live in Argentina is a joy, though the TH-900 is stealing the show a bit but it's a u shaped headphone after all that is also technically gifted - something that works very well with EDM.  
  
 Soundstage is a bit smaller than the HD 800 but bigger than the TH-900, somehow inbetween (towards the HD 800) but with an open character. The first thing I hoped to not be there was the infamous weak phantom center channel that plagues the lower tiers. This problem is totally absent. Center imaging is spot on with no imbalance. Damn, the imaging really is at least on par with the TH-900 in terms of separation, layering (listening  to the head-fi test-cd) but going beyond that due to its open nature. The Fostex itself is already among the very best.
  
 What struck me from the beginning and where I focussed at first was the technical abilities, for instance in giving everything a corpus when building the image. In German we'd say "plastizität", something along 3D vs 2D as in not being flat or giving instruments no body. It instantly reminded me of the HD 800 but weightier with more presence.
  
 Anyway, I have a wide range of tracks that I know very well over the years and Gianna Nannini's IO is one of those tracks that need the right balance to work for me as in delivering her emotion. 
  
 The HE-500 still is my reference headphone (for this track) so far thanks to its beautiful balance (healthy amount of sparkle, beautiful mids, tactile bass albeit a bit undetailed but having its own charme nonetheless) but is not alone anymore now as the new contender delivers beautiful mids as well while only lacking in the upper department with its more pronounced highs. It's no HE-400 level though (the one I had certainly killed my joy very fast) and of course not something along the lines of a DT990 or Ultrasone Pro but it's definitely there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

On the Mixamp, it isnt the chat knob that screws up, its the master volume. And even then it just distirts when adjusting volume, not when you have it set. My current Mixamp Pro cant be maxed out. I leave it at around 70%. 

Why would I choose the Mixamp over the DSS? First, game/chat. Second, almost no hiss on the 2011. 3rd, extra spdif input (just buy a converter and you have an extra inut for optical).

As for the D600... I don't like it. Sounds like some Beats. Too much bottom, too much sizzle, not enough mids. It sounds hollow and resonant. I prefer the CAL over it, by a mile. Headphones with recessed mids have a sort of pseudo soundstage, because the vocals sound further away. I dont consider that to be a good thing.

I miss the Fostex Denons.

Btw guys, Tyll at Innerfidelity states the CAL2 isn't as good as the first CAL. Doesn't surprise me.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> It's a (contrary to my fears, albeit exaggerated) fantastic headphone that comes closest in fullfilling the role of an allrounder (balance between fun/neutral, soundstage) of all headphones I heard.  The aspired neutrality with a better low end reproduction and a more engaging/emotional sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds like the Alpha Dog to me.


----------



## Evshrug

doctacosmos said:


> @Evshrug what is that on your controller
> link please?



Tis my 2.5 mm to 3.5mm converter. I had two but misplaced one...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005543MAG/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1387677592&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70



*Fegefeuer,*
I was almost as blown away by your description as you must've felt hearing the headphone! I could feel your enthusiasm the entire time, as I read more my surprise mounted. I really hope it's worth the price, because here's the thing... save up enough, be dedicated enough, it's not that impossible to save up for.
One question I have: how's the wearing comfort? Many people applaud the HD800 comfort...


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> *Fegefeuer,*
> I was almost as blown away by your description as you must've felt hearing the headphone! I could feel your enthusiasm the entire time, as I read more my surprise mounted. I really hope it's worth the price, because here's the thing... save up enough, be dedicated enough, it's not that impossible to save up for.
> One question I have: how's the wearing comfort? Many people applaud the HD800 comfort...


 
  
 I can confirm that the HD800 is excellent in comfort, it feels wonderful. So if the K812 is just as comfortable that's saying a lot.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Spending more time with this MMX 300, listening to music...geez, this thing hammers bass notes into my ears in a way I'm just not quite used to, if the source calls for it. I would NEVER call this "bass-light" by any means.
  
 This is going to require some adjustment if I'm to use this as my main headphone for a while...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like a bass heavy MMX300...

The complete opposite of what the more recent impressions on the MMX300 have been. Again, inconsistency on Beyer's part.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I agree for the most part mle. it does have a beats type sound with a lofty bottom end but it's much tighter and being that it's a dynamic driver that goes down to 5 it does have some rumble that might feel like resonance but i never experienced it getting in the way of anything.   didn't get to hear enough music to hear any hollowness but it did feel a bit compressed.  will have to borrow again. I don't think the midrange is recessed though.  I agree there is some trickery going on with the imaging because vocals are clearly separated from the rest of the range but i don't think they are recessed.  they where never covered up and the headphone almost seamed focused on the midrange with the highs and lows having their own domains.So i think i see what you're saying with the pseudo soundstage but i quite like it.  It is not your typical flat, open sound but i have never been more engaged with the sound.  To me, it's easier to comprehend the sound from lesser dynamic audio.   Have you heard the Th-900?  they have a fairly similar frequency response and i'm hoping they have a more reference like resolution that is more resolving headphone of more dynamic audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, but I've owned thee D7000, which is what the TH900 sounds most like based on what those who have owned both have said. The D7000 is in a whole other stratosphere from the D600. Like... night and day.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like a bass heavy MMX300...
> 
> The complete opposite of what the more recent impressions on the MMX300 have been. *Again, inconsistency on Beyer's part*.


 
  
 This is why I haven't owned a Beyer, to this day. It's actually the only well known brand I have yet to try...
  
 Pitty... because what people describe, sometimes, make them sound intriguing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I bought the 600ohm DT770 because of all the reviews stating it was very well balanced and a little bass light, which I actually wanted. What I got was possibly the most bass I've ever heard on any headphone, with the exception of the XB500 (which wasn't even as fatiguing). Like, it added bass to everything. It was a mess.

They only headphones they're consistent with is their 880s/990s from my experience. However driver variation made two different 600ohm DT990s sound a little different when I compared side by side.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

The Seinheiser G4ME ZERO seems to be getting good reviews, it's pricey at 280$, but it has a great mic and looks comfortable and has a good build. Should pair well with a SoundBlaster Omni, I think that's what I might do. Anyone have any opinions on the headset?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure they're rebadged PC350/360s... Like Chicolom pointed out, the Game One's page was identical to the PC360's page. Nothing was changed... at all, except the images.

Slap a new fresh coat of paint, call it new. Taken right out of AKG's playbook.

Of course, Sennheiser can always prove me wrong and send these to me for testing/reviewing.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Yeah I suspected that, the 350 SE is a good 90$ cheaper on Amazon...Hmm...
 The earpads do look more comfortable on the ZERO compared to the 350 SE. Probably not worth the extra price, I will think this over a bit, I did just nab the SoundBlaster Omni off Amazon for 55$ grand total after tax. So at least that investment is done, seemed like a great deal.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure they're rebadged PC350/360s... Like Chicolom pointed out, the Game One's page was identical to the PC360's page. Nothing was changed... at all, except the images.
> 
> Slap a new fresh coat of paint, call it new. Taken right out of AKG's playbook.
> 
> *Of course, Sennheiser can always prove me wrong and send these to me for testing/reviewing.*


 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## chicolom

Yeah.  "G4ME ZERO" and it's open variant "G4ME ONE" are both very likely rebadges and thus overpriced.
  
 If you want the closed headset go for the PC350 for ~$100 less: http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Special-Edition-Performance-Headset/dp/B008O510Y8
  
 Personally I think Sennheisers pleather pads look _horrible_, so I'd go with the PC360 (same as the G4ME ONE) http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-360-Headset-Pro-Gaming/dp/B003DA4D2U
  
 Plus the open one should have a better sound quality soundstage.  Sennheiser doesn't really seem to do closed headphones all that well.
  
 Or just get an HD558 + your own mic (modmic) http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-504631-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think once my warranty ends, I'll have someone recable my MA900... or at least have it where it has a standard 3.5mm headphone jack, and use a Vmoda boompro mic cable.

http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Yeah I agree, it all comes back to me now wanting sound leakage, but knowing open has better sound argh...
 Also when it says the PC 360 are HiFi, what exactly does that mean, like even in BF4 between headphone and HiFi what is the difference?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Marketing jargon. Don't pay attention to terms like hifi and hd sound, etc.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I think once my warranty ends, I'll have someone recable my MA900... *or at least have it where it has a standard 3.5mm headphone jack*, and use a Vmoda boompro mic cable.
> 
> http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/


 
  
 I think that would be a problem with the MA900 as the driver sits too close to the housing...


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Thought as much lol I did get the SoundBlaster Omni for 55$ off amazon, so just gotta find a headphone/headset to go with it. How much do the PC360s leak?


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like a bass heavy MMX300...
> 
> The complete opposite of what the more recent impressions on the MMX300 have been. Again, inconsistency on Beyer's part.


 
  
 Beyerdynamic's always been inconsistent about what a given model name refers to...just look at the DT880 throughout its history.
  
 However, I do want to know if the current MMX300s with the black rings and pads, along with the different cable, are guaranteed bass-light while my older variant with silver rings and pads is guaranteed bass-heavy. That would at least simplify things a little when shopping for these things.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one Joe reviewed on youtube looked just like yours, and was bass light.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Don't pay attention to terms like hifi and hd sound, etc.


 
  
 My Fidelio X1 has High Definition drivers though.
  
 Enjoy your_ standard def_ MA900s.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

So the Omni doesn't have ASIO, what is that and concretely what does it affect. Also, what is WASAPI?! lol


----------



## chicolom

drunkentiger said:


> So the Omni doesn't have ASIO, what is that and concretely what does it affect. Also, what is WASAPI?! lol


 
  
 http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/ASIO.htm
 http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WASAPI.htm
  
 ASIO is a low latency driver.  It's popular for applications that require low-latency, like music recording.
 WASAPI is similar to ASIO, but it's integrated into windows where as ASIO is dependent on the soundcard supporting it (unless you use something like ASIO4ALL drivers).
  
 If you don't really know what they are used for, odds are you don't need to worry about them.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Thank you so much! (you guys are boss) So it's irrelevant for my uses, good. I tried out my friend's Sony MDR1s, super comfy, beautiful, good build.
 In terms of sound they were good for music, bass seemed too prevalent and bled into too much of the songs, vocals weren't well defined as I feel they are on my G35s. Treble was good.
 I'm curious how much a soundcard would change their sound, was just playing them off my phone and his razer blade for BF4, didn't sound good for gaming in my short time :/


----------



## martin vegas

Does anyone know what the sound quality is like on the alienware 18 gaming laptop? not much info on the sound quality!


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> Tis my 2.5 mm to 3.5mm converter. I had two but misplaced one...
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005543MAG/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?qid=1387677592&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Comfort is at the same level. I don't notice any shortcomings. Neither is there a strong clamp or any pressure points on the top of the skull nor are my ears or jaw feeling uncomfortable. Infact it's less encompassing parts of your head which annoys some HD 800 users in the jaw parts. The pleather is like Fostex as in staying cool and not sweaty/hot like Hifiman pleather or any other known pleather types. The ideal headphone pad would be filled with gel but those are extremely expensive to make and maybe something for the future. Anyway, the advantage of eggshell protein on the Fostex or the pleahter of the AKG is hygiene. Just a tissue and oil of your skin etc. is removed while velour soaks everything up no matter how less you sweat. Sure, you can wash them so it's no big problem at all.
  
 Haven't continued further. Will continue hearing later this evening. What I can say from last night is that cohorence is something a K7xx soundstage would never have to me. I disdained the diffuse middle part in the imaging, the ovalish form that is more extreme to the sides. The K812 "corrects" all that and has sublime depth.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Does anyone know what the sound quality is like on the alienware 18 gaming laptop? not much info on the sound quality!


 
  
 I didn't hear much very long, just for about 20 minutes out of a friend's Alienware. Honestly I wasn't impressed. And that's common. Unfortunately most laptop makers save money on sound and focus on graphics, processor, memory, storage, etc. The best laptop sound I've heard yet is out of my MBP, and even then there's still some left to be desired.


----------



## pietcux

No matter which Laptop you chose, you can always have agreat gaming sond with this one:
I have the Black version since 5 years alredy and use it now with my laptop. It has all Dolby Headphone features, that also come with the Xonar Essence STX, but the headphone amp  is more simple, but still good enough for gaming and far better that all onboard solution I came across so far and those are countless.


----------



## davisman

if only asus would make the U3 work with consoles. INSTANT HIT. Has anybody had trouble with the stock Asus drivers Lately? Mine broke last Thursday after a windows update. Was a good time to move to Unified drivers anyway, just wondered if anybody else has had trouble. 
  
 I am soo interested in the K812pro. ****ty thing is I just blew all my money on a set of LCD2s. Now I really am broke, and will be selling plasma next week to buy groceries . Ok maybe not that bad, but zomg THE SOUND. IF anybody is interested I am going to be selling my HE400s I just bought. I have velour and pleather pads. Would be a good chance to check these out for a good deal, I bought them when they went on sale.


----------



## davisman

twelvetrains said:


> If you find the Modmic too long you can always make a loop in the boom to shorten it.


 
 This is horrible advice. I just tried to put a loop in the mic boom, and the damn thing snapped. Absolutely do not do this with the newer model Mod Mics.


----------



## AxelCloris

davisman said:


> This is horrible advice. I just tried to put a loop in the mic boom, and the damn thing snapped. Absolutely do not do this with the newer model Mod Mics.


 
  
 I would never recommend a loop for a Modmic. I used an S curve at the base of mine in order to shorten the boom and to control the cord.
  
 It's a bit difficult to see but this is the only photo I currently have of the Modmic.


----------



## martin vegas

This is the alienware 18's soundcard Creative Sound Blaster Recon3Di High-Definition 5.1 Audio with THX TruStudio Pro Software (Standard) or 2.1 Speaker configuration with Subwoofer Audio Powered by Klipsch; 7.1 Digital Audio out using HDMI out connection or S/PDIF Optical port


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> This is the alienware 18's soundcard Creative Sound Blaster Recon3Di High-Definition 5.1 Audio with THX TruStudio Pro Software (Standard) or 2.1 Speaker configuration with Subwoofer Audio Powered by Klipsch; 7.1 Digital Audio out using HDMI out connection or S/PDIF Optical port


 
  
 The Recon3Di is a software package overlaid on top of the motherboard's integrated sound. So you're just using a cheap sound card with a decent software suite.


----------



## ABK792

Hey, I was just wondering if you guys could help me pinpoint a pair of headphones to buy if it's not too much trouble.
  
 - Preferably $100-$200 price range
 - These would mostly be for SP games/movies so I don't need some super sterile sounding headphones for competitive gaming. I'd like at least a decent amount of bass.
 - And if possible a pair that would be comfortable to wear most of the day if need be.
  
 Thanks in advanced for any help.


----------



## PurpleAngel

abk792 said:


> Hey, I was just wondering if you guys could help me pinpoint a pair of headphones to buy if it's not too much trouble.
> 
> - Preferably $100-$200 price range
> - These would mostly be for SP games/movies so I don't need some super sterile sounding headphones for competitive gaming. I'd like at least a decent amount of bass.
> - And if possible a pair that would be comfortable to wear most of the day if need be.


 
 What sources would the headphones be plugged into? Win PC computer?


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> The Recon3Di is a software package overlaid on top of the motherboard's integrated sound. So you're just using a cheap sound card with a decent software suite.


 

 I am thinking about getting a good portable optical dac/headphone amp to go with this..it carries 7.1 sound over optical.be using this with jh audio roxannes as my (in ear) headphones!


----------



## davisman

axelcloris said:


> I would never recommend a loop for a Modmic. I used an S curve at the base of mine in order to shorten the boom and to control the cord.
> 
> It's a bit difficult to see but this is the only photo I currently have of the Modmic.


 
 That is the older version, and is the one I consider the best. The newer is made of a different material and about 2 inches longer. The older boom was perfect IMO.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I am thinking about getting a good portable optical dac/headphone amp to go with this..it carries 7.1 sound over optical.be using this with jh audio roxannes as my (in ear) headphones!


 
  
 The best thing about having the Recon3Di on a computer is that it'll process the THX TrueStudio before leaving the computer at all. So you can use both analog out to an amp or (as I understand it) toslink to another DAC and still maintain the surround processing.
  
 Then again, I may be overlooking something and that second part not work at all. But I'd love for it to work. Recon>Bifrost>amp>headphones would probably sound awesome.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> The best thing about having the Recon3Di on a computer is that it'll process the THX TrueStudio before leaving the computer at all. So you can use both analog out to an amp or (as I understand it) toslink to another DAC and still maintain the surround processing.
> 
> Then again, I may be overlooking something and that second part not work at all. But I'd love for it to work. Recon>Bifrost>amp>headphones would probably sound awesome.


 
 I agree,that's why all I need is a optical dac/headphone amp..i am thinking about getting the naim DAC-V1 with the jh audio roxannes and putting it in the loft..should be one $h!t h@t combo!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I agree,that's why all I need is a optical dac/headphone amp..i am thinking about getting the naim DAC-V1 with the jh audio roxannes..should be one $h!t h@t combo!


 
  
 Oh man how I'd love to hear the Roxannes. But honestly I absolutely love my 1964-Q and have no need to upgrade from them. They sound sublime to me with everything I throw at them and at 1/3 the price of the Roxannes. Maybe someone more familiar could answer if it'll work. I have a Geek Pulse X with all the internal upgrades coming next year and I'd absolutely love to be able to use it in my gaming chain. So much want for that device, and it's going to be so long before it gets through production.
  
 So getting back to the original question, if you can use an external DAC with the laptop's Recon3Di software then I think you'll have incredible sound out of the Alienware M18.


----------



## ABK792

purpleangel said:


> What sources would the headphones be plugged into? Win PC computer?


 
 I'd be using it on my PC and on my TV using an adapter since most of these headphones use a 3.5 jack do they not?


----------



## PurpleAngel

abk792 said:


> I'd be using it on my PC and on my TV using an adapter since most of these headphones use a 3.5 jack do they not?


 
 Audio Technica ATH-A900X, sell used on eBay for $150
 Hifiman Velour ear pads, $10+shipping.
 Most headphones come with the 3.5mm 1/8" stereo mini-jack.
  
 Adding an Asus Xonar DG sound card, $27, might improve audio quality with the PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​


axelcloris said:


> The best thing about having the Recon3Di on a computer is that it'll process the THX TrueStudio before leaving the computer at all. So you can use both analog out to an amp or (as I understand it) toslink to another DAC and still maintain the surround processing.
> 
> Then again, I may be overlooking something and that second part not work at all. But I'd love for it to work. Recon>Bifrost>amp>headphones would probably sound awesome.




That won't work. The spdif only sends basic 2 channel. I have the same integrated Creative 3Di on my M17xR4. It's a PITA to use, since at least mine will default back to 2 channel stereo when I unplug my headphones. So in order for the sohnd devices tk go to 5.1 for the THX Tru Studio to work properly, you have to manually configure the speakers to 5.1 every single time you plug in hour headphones.

I only deal with that hassle at work, and when I'm hone I just use my Xonar U3 attached to my E17 through the optical.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry, headfi being weird.... and I just woke up.


Oh yes, on Bioshock Infinite for PC, THX Tru Studio works noticeably better than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## martin vegas

This is what it says on the tin.. Creative Sound Blaster Recon3Di High-Definition 5.1 Audio with THX TruStudio Pro Software (Standard) or 2.1 Speaker configuration with Subwoofer Audio Powered by Klipsch; 7.1 Digital Audio out using HDMI out connection or S/PDIF Optical port


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

7.1 digital audio out, sounds like a strict line out, not a pre-mixed out. So it's unlikely he'll get THX Tru Studio out of the Spdif out. Still, it seems better than mine which only does a 2 channel line out through Spdif. I can confirm Dolby and DTS on the optical out properties, but still only 2 channel, so I call BS here on my Alienware.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> 7.1 digital audio out, sounds like a strict line out, not a pre-minxed out. So it's unlikely he'll get THX tru Studio out of the Spdif out. Still, it seems better than mine which only does a 2 channel line out through Spdif.


 

 I think you have the choice of the two..either 5.1 or 7.1 over optical as an extra, but not 100% sure!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no choice. Mine is 2 channel, period. I have everything set to 5.1 on the Recon's properties (Dolby D, DTS as well), but when I hit the spdif out, it's 2 channels.

I'll see if I can confirm it with my Mixamp attached to it.

It's like when my Xonar U3 goes up to 16bit/192khz. That high a khz rating implies multiple speakers. The Recon only goes up to 24bit/48khz.


----------



## AxelCloris

So I'm curious about your setup MLE. Computer>U3>toslink>E17>headphones. I'm assuming that you use the E17 primarily for the amp portion, right? Or are you also using it for the DAC to improve on the U3?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Axel, if you're sending the signal via toslink, that implies it hasn't been converted from digital to analog yet. However, the U3 HAS converted the Dolby Digital signal into Dolby headphone digitally. So yes, the E17's DAC is being used in this instance, though the U3 is the one converting DD into DH.

This is why I really like the U3. It's cheap, and you're still using your own DAC/AMP. No need to spend more than the U3 since all you're using it for is as a means to get DD into DH.

Just have to make sure you have a DAC with an spdif input., and that the U3's software is toggled to send an optical/pcm signal.





Also, pretty sure the Xonar DG is the internal equivalent. Same specs.

The pic, I usually have the controller thing switched on, though it doesn't make a difference. It just puts DH into DH2 mode automatically, which I set manually anyway, so it's the same thing.


----------



## AxelCloris

That's exactly what I was looking to find out. So you can use a better DAC and still get the DH out of the U3. That's excellent. I never tried that combination when I had the U3 before. Obviously you're running digital over toslink. My ears can't decode light, though I'd love if they could. It won't replace my Recon3D but I may get a U3 to use as for DH and run it off my MBP's dock. Of course I could only use it in Windows but it's not a pricey piece of kit.
  
 That means that I can go computer>U3>Geek Pulse>headphones. Awesome. Now I'm wondering if my Recon3D can do mini-toslink out to get THX to the Pulse. I don't think it can. Oh well.


----------



## ABK792

purpleangel said:


> Audio Technica ATH-A900X, sell used on eBay for $150
> Hifiman Velour ear pads, $10+shipping.
> Most headphones come with the 3.5mm 1/8" stereo mini-jack.
> 
> Adding an Asus Xonar DG sound card, $27, might improve audio quality with the PC.


 
 Thanks for the reply. Is there any difference between the sound card you mentioned and this one? http://www.amazon.com/Xonar-DGX-PCI-E-GX2-5-Engine/dp/B007TMZ1BK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387763475&sr=8-2&keywords=Asus+Xonar+DG+sound+card Because I only have a free PCI-E slot. Also after reading some reviews on the ASUS sound cards it seems they have issues with Windows 8-8.1 which is what I am using. Have you heard anything about that?
  
 I'd also like to thank you for your headphone suggestion but after doing some more research I think I've narrowed it down to the Sennheiser HD 558 and the Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro. Do you have any knowledge or opinions on either of them? Thanks again.


----------



## widdyjudas

Mle, I see that your u3 console interface is different from mine.

 This will not affect DH performance I guess?


----------



## Railius

Guys I am looking for the best Gaming sound quality but also for good looking headphone/set at first (2 weeks ago) I was about to buy the G4ME ZERO  because they are the latest thing out there.. i still want.. because they look awesome and they are sennheiser.. but asking, searching, watching reviews.. it is so damm hard to make a choice.. i also look for the A40 but my sound card to not support DDL.. after 2 weeks I am between this set up 
  
*-HD558 ( PROS = Apparently sounds well, and will have the surround experience im looking for in FPS games, i'll be able to use them outside since it has no mic CONS = they dont match my pc. and i dont know if they are the best in terms of sound quality for fps, mmorpg gaming )*
  
*-Asus XONAR D1 or STX or Titanium HD( which is apparently the best for gaming)*
  
*-Magni headphone Amp*
  
 That set up unless i find that is worth paying for the *G4ME ZERO*, they are expensive i know, but they must be better than the hd558 and the PC360 (judging by the price) i mean they do not come with USB 7.1 they look the same as the 360 and they are 120$ more expensive? there must be somethng better "amazing" 
  
 i can spend 400$ on a very good sound system, i could also spend on the ZERO (if they are good) and later on buy an amp or soundcard, w.e is needed, because i only have the p8z77vpro onboard sound card.. 
  
 What do you think guys help me out.. 
  
 Edit: I also checked that the AD7000 are the best but they are ugly as hell, and the 598 are apparently better than an unmodded 558 but they are ugly as hell too..


----------



## chicolom

railius said:


> Guys I am looking for the best Gaming sound quality but also for good looking headphone/set at first (2 weeks ago) I was about to buy the G4ME ZERO  because they are the latest thing out there.. i still want.. because they look awesome and they are sennheiser.. but asking, searching, watching reviews.. it is so damm hard to make a choice.. i also look for the A40 but my sound card to not support DDL.. after 2 weeks I am between this set up
> 
> *-HD558 ( PROS = Apparently sounds well, and will have the surround experience im looking for in FPS games, i'll be able to use them outside since it has no mic CONS = they dont match my pc. and i dont know if they are the best in terms of sound quality for fps, mmorpg gaming )*
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 As was mentioned a few page ago, the G4ME ZERO is overpriced as it is a re-release of an existing headset.
  
 The HD558 is essentially the same headphone (but open) and is a good choice for home use.  I would not use it in public as there will be sound leakage.
  
 Figure out which surround sound DSP you prefer (Dolby Headphone, CMSS, SBX Pro, etc.) and then get whichever card offers that.  I would not recommened getting both a Magni and a card like the STX, because you will be paying twice for two amplifiers when you only need one. 
  
 If it were me I would either get the HD558 + a Xonar DGX or Sound Blaster Z.  If you want more amp you can add a Magni, but the HD558s are not that hard to drive.


----------



## PurpleAngel

chicolom said:


> If it were me I would either get the HD558 + a Xonar DGX or Sound Blaster Z.  If you want more amp you can add a Magni, but the HD558s are not that hard to drive.


 
 Do you know of people who have used the 50-Ohm HD558 with the Sound Blaster Z built in headphone amplifier.
 The combo seems like a great bargain, but wonder how the 50-Ohm HD558 deal the with SB-Z's headphone output impedance of 22-Ohms?


----------



## chicolom

purpleangel said:


> Do you know of people who have used the 50-Ohm HD558 with the Sound Blaster Z built in headphone amplifier.
> The combo seems like a great bargain, but wonder how the 50-Ohm HD558 deal the with SB-Z's headphone output impedance of 22-Ohms?


 

 In that case, perhaps he should just add an external amp to bypass the SBZ's ouput impedance. 

 He could also bypass the the SBZ's DAC if he wanted by picking up a FiiO D3K, although I'm not sure how much if any improvement that would offer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

widdyjudas said:


> Mle, I see that your u3 console interface is different from mine.
> 
> 
> This will not affect DH performance I guess?




It's the sme. If you switch off Dolby Headphone, then turn it back on, you'll see it's the same. The U3 software defaults to showing you the virtual speaker shifter screen. That's normal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Freaking upset. So I bought Bulletstorm off Gamefly, and the kew/download was for the censored version. All the language is there, but there is no blood, no impalement, no gore, etc. A LOT of what makes the game what it is is the voilence and how you can rack up crazy kills. Well, my copy is as generic as it comes. I tried to dispute this to get my money back or at least give me the proper download file, but they pretty much told me to go **** myself.

This is aggravating, as this game is pretty awesome, and I got shafted with a half assed censored version. It's almost funny how bad it is with its lack of ANYTHING. Even the in game descriptions tell you that an enemy got dismembered, head blown off, yet the body is perfectly intact.

So, so mad.


----------



## chicolom

That's really lame. 
  
 Sounds like playing Gears of War with the gore OFF, where you chainsaw someone and sparks shoot out and everyone just ragdolls around instead of gibbing to bits.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> That's really lame.
> 
> Sounds like playing Gears of War with the gore OFF, where you chainsaw someone and sparks shoot out and everyone just ragdolls around instead of gibbing to bits.




I don't even get sparks...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Well, that sucks. I wonder if I've got a spare Bulletstorm code in one of my many indie bundles...doesn't seem like it, though.
  
 By the way, Battlefield 2 just won the Steam Community's Choice poll; you've all got a bit under 8 hours to get one of the best entries in the series for $5!


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> By the way, Battlefield 2 just won the Steam Community's Choice poll; you've all got a bit under 8 hours to get one of the best entries in the series for $5!


 
  
 I voted for it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - even though I don't really play Battlefield.  Seemed like a nice bundle for the price
  
 Also, don't tempt me....


----------



## Railius

chicolom said:


> As was mentioned a few page ago, the G4ME ZERO is overpriced as it is a re-release of an existing headset.
> 
> The HD558 is essentially the same headphone (but open) and is a good choice for home use.  I would not use it in public as there will be sound leakage.
> 
> ...


 
 What do you think about the PC 360 and how could i get any better than those, because if you dont recommend using the 558 outside, il just get a proper headset with a sound card the only headphone that i like based on how it looks are the AKG Q701, but at the end, all the sennheiser's headphones and headset are the same apparenly, im not a proffesional gamer, but i do love a surround experience in games like dead space, diablo, battlefield etc etc.. i just want to invest in something very good in sound quality and something that looks good with the theme of PC, to be honest i do care about that, because i've been trying to match everything, 558 are meh, they do not match but are okay, neutral color, AKG q701 looks good, g4me zero looks beast and so are the A40, you guys are not giving me the confidence that ill get an awesome sound experience with that HD 558, also what if i plug any of those headphones into a laptop and not my pc? will they sucks. then is not worth it.. 
  
 About the DSP, i havent tried any of those to be honest, i just have my mobo p8z77 v-pro which soundcard apparently sucks and do not support any of ddl or dolby headphone, im just reading and watching reviews trying to look for something Very good, that'll blow my mind, like i said before, i've never had good headphone/set.


----------



## martin vegas

railius said:


> What do you think about the PC 360 and how could i get any better than those, because if you dont recommend using the 558 outside, il just get a proper headset with a sound card the only headphone that i like based on how it looks are the AKG Q701, but at the end, all the sennheiser's headphones and headset are the same apparenly, im not a proffesional gamer, but i do love a surround experience in games like dead space, diablo, battlefield etc etc.. i just want to invest in something very good in sound quality and something that looks good with the theme of PC, to be honest i do care about that, because i've been trying to match everything, 558 are meh, they do not match but are okay, neutral color, AKG q701 looks good, g4me zero looks beast and so are the A40, you guys are not giving me the confidence that ill get an awesome sound experience with that HD 558, also what if i plug any of those headphones into a laptop and not my pc? will they sucks. then is not worth it..
> 
> About the DSP, i havent tried any of those to be honest, i just have my mobo p8z77 v-pro which soundcard apparently sucks and do not support any of ddl or dolby headphone, im just reading and watching reviews trying to look for something Very good, that'll blow my mind, like i said before, i've never had good headphone/set.


 

 I use the sennheiser u320 headset with a arcam r dac..they sound good together!


----------



## LoveKnight

Hi, Mad Lust Envy. I believe you are keeping a sample Alpha Dog from the tour to review so I beg you please do some comparing to HD650 because I am in a situation to consider which can should I buy. My main point is to buy a headphone which can delivery better mids/vocals between the HD650 the Alpha Dog, and I think you are the one (could be the one with few other people) who can describe the sound better to my ears. Thanks very much.


----------



## AxelCloris

I loved BF2 back when and played the hell out of it. For $5 I picked it up a second time. Damn me! But I'll have some fun playing an amazing game again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD650 has better mids for me, as they sound more organic and intimate. The Alpha Dog is more a jack of all trades. a very fantastic one, but the neutral voicing doesn't beat the HD650's more warm, natural mids. Still, very, very good mids on the AD.


----------



## SaLX

Loving my new Philips X1 out of my SBZ - great set of phones - but the bass is a bit sloppy on _some tracks _I'm afraid. New cable coming soon. Still though.. could happily listen to them all day. One thing.. was lazily watching DayZ: SA twitch earlier, and in stereo - it's _really good _- even the cues at 5 and 7 O'clock. Sweet as.
  
 One thing though.. I've got a bit of hearing damage (peskie crewing for bands in my youth), therefore I really ought to have got myself a bright set of phones (if indeed they would help at all). Basically my ears naturally roll off the treble - not hugely - but enough to notice, and the X1's are a slightly muffled to me up there. A Sabre Compass 2 is winging it's way toward me atm, but I never thought they'd really help too much with the X1's (it's a purchase for the future). Maybe I ought to grab a pair of DT 990's or equivelent.. I'd be willing to pay more if it does the trick - any ideas???.. do AKG's have better treble - I mean distinctly better??  Has to be good at games ofc


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So in the end, I ended up fully playing through Bulletstorm... though the censoring left a really bad taste... and it's such a pretty cool FPS too. Positional cues were really good as well.

Now, on to Castlevania: LOS on PC. Loved the PS3 version, now I wanna see it in all it's intended glory.

This is all a good test for the Alpha Dog which is doing things amazingly well. I'm feeling a full suite of 8-8.5s across the board.


----------



## Railius

Mad Lust Envy, i'll trust your opinion because you like gaming! I've read all the threads and god im tired..
 I want a good headset or headphone for my games such as battefield, dead space 3, diablo etc etc.. i want something to blow my mind! I;ve never had any good headphone other than the samsung or ipod in ear headphones lol.. 
  
 But i also want a good looking headphone/set SO AD7000, HD598, and those beyerdynamics are out of the way, the theme of my pc is Black/White i would love to have headphones in those colors it doest matter to me 
  
 i have 360 - 400$ to invest on.. At first i wanted Astro a40 +mix amp But the need of a sound card changed my mind ( they are perfect for my pc though) and since " i could get something better than those headset i started to look further..)
  
 then i saw G4ME ZERO they look also perfect! but they are hella expensive, they look exactly the same as the 360 but cost 120$ more, unless i find something that proves that they are worth it i wont buy them ( but im in love with them )
  
 There's a guy who have helped me a lot in the forums called Purple Angel, he told me to buy 
 HD558 + Asus D1 (since i only have the soundcard of my mobo P8Z77 V-PRO) + magni headphone amp) i dont like so much the 558 and they arent the best thing out there apparently
  
 Then i saw the AKG Q701 i love the white version and they are apparently good, but ill have to buy some amps to play with my pc and my phone.
  
 Help me decide please... i dont have a dedicated sound card, never had an amp, and 360 - 400$ budget.. maybe i could get g4me zero + titanium HD / STX, or Q701 with those E07 amps and a cheap sound card.. or maybe the ASTRO with a asus d1 which support DDL, but mobo do not support DDL, that's why im fcked, but the major flaw on the Astro is the fact that i has so many bad reviews about the mic and bad products
  
 I appreciate your time. 
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## chicolom

*Rialius*, I would try and forget the G4ME ZERO, as it's overpriced.  Same thing with the A40.
  
 PC360 = G4ME ZERO.  HD558 might be _slightly _better than both.
  
 The Q701 is better than those Sennheisers IMO.


----------



## Railius

chicolom said:


> *Rialius*, I would try and forget the G4ME ZERO, as it's overpriced.  Same thing with the A40.
> 
> PC360 = G4ME ZERO.  HD558 might be _slightly _better than both.
> 
> The Q701 is better than those Sennheisers IMO.


 
  
 Q701 better game wise?, if i go for the q701, should i stay with my onboard sound card? do i need an amp? if im going headphone ill use them for outside too.., which is better to buy a soundcard or amp? the q701 costs 211$, which left me with 150$-189$


----------



## Change is Good

Q701 is Amazing, game wise... and with what you have left over you can get a FiiO E12 for now. It is both portable and powerful enough to drive them efficiently. Some may say get the E9K if you prefer a desktop amp, but I personally didn't like that pairing.


----------



## chicolom

railius said:


> Q701 better game wise?, if i go for the q701, should i stay with my onboard sound card? do i need an amp? if im going headphone ill use them for outside too.., which is better to buy a soundcard or amp? the q701 costs 211$, which left me with 150$-189$


 
  
 Yes.
  
 I would get an inexpensive _desktop _amp like the Magni to go with the Q701. 
  
 Your going to need a soundcard regardless if you want virtual surround sound (which I recommend).  So I would get an inexpensive soundcard for the surround sound processing and then let the Magni do the amping.
  
 I would get Q701 + Magni + FiiO D3K + Sound Blaster Z (OEM version) OR Xonar DGX.  You hook them up in that order too.  The total for all that gear will be ~400.  Get the Xonar DGX if you like Dolby Headphone and the Sound Blaster Z OEM if you like SBX Pro. 
  
  
 Any and all of these open headphones are going to leak, so I wouldn't recommend using them outside/around other people.  I would just get a separate pair of cheaper headphones with  better isolation for that.


----------



## Railius

chicolom said:


> Yes.
> 
> I would get an inexpensive _desktop _amp like the Magni to go with the Q701.
> 
> ...


 
 I definitely want surround sound, that's the main reason of why im buying headphone/set thing is that i dont want to buy something to improve later on, i want to buy good gear and then later on buy what's needed.. will i get a better sound with a very good card like STX - Titanium HD or Asus Phoebus with a Headphone/set with no amp?
  
 I didnt want a headphone at first, i wanted headset because the main purpose is for gaming, but IF im buying a headphone (nomic) then it would be better to be one that i can use outside.. If it wont be good to play outside then ill just save the money and buy a headset..
  
 Card + headphone/set 
 or it'll be better the 3 of them..
  
 I want something portable, because i wont be always on a PC sometimes i play on a laptop.. What do you think of those Sennheiser USB 7.1 DOlby.. ?


----------



## Change is Good

If you absolutely need something closed... and can be portable... I recommend the Soundmagic HP100 in your price range. Pair that with the E12 and your soundcard of choice... can't go wrong there.


----------



## Railius

change is good said:


> If you absolutely need something closed... and can be portable... I recommend the Soundmagic HP100 in your price range. Pair that with the E12 and your soundcard of choice... can't go wrong there.


 
 But the i assume they are better gaming wise, than the Q701 because they are 200$ and would still need an amp and sound card.


----------



## ABK792

Question: I currently have a pair of cheap Turtle Beach headsets plugged into my tv through a 3.5 jack to RCA adapter into the audio out on my tv. As stated previously in this thread I plan on buying a more expensive pair of headphones. What would I need to get better audio through my tv or should I just plug them into the  RCA audio out like I'm currently doing?


----------



## AxelCloris

railius said:


> But the i assume they are better gaming wise, than the Q701 because they are 200$ and would still need an amp and sound card.


 
  
 I'm gonna speak for Change here, and possibly be wrong, but the HP100 are not better for gaming than the Q701. He was recommending them if closed was a requirement. Open is always better than closed for gaming. You'll need a sound card regardless and many headphones you'll find tossed around this thread sound better with an amp.


----------



## chicolom

railius said:


> I definitely want surround sound, that's the main reason of why im buying headphone/set thing is that i dont want to buy something to improve later on, i want to buy good gear and then later on buy what's needed.. will i get a better sound with a very good card like STX - Titanium HD or Asus Phoebus with a Headphone/set with no amp?
> 
> I didnt want a headphone at first, i wanted headset because the main purpose is for gaming, but IF im buying a headphone (nomic) then it would be better to be one that i can use outside.. If it wont be good to play outside then ill just save the money and buy a headset..
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 You won't get better sound with a higher end soundcard as the Magni amp is already at least equal too if not better than the amps in the Titanium HD or Phoebus. 
  
 However, if you do get a higher end soundcard do NOT also buy a Magni because you will be wasting your money paying twice for two amps when you only need one.  So get one or the other.  If it were me I would go with the Magni amp + cheaper soundcard personally.  A good desktop amp will last you longer than soundcard as the latter can become outdated if and when new DSPs come out.  A solid desktop amp won't go out of date. It's also more versatile as you can move it around and use it with any source, something which is more difficult to do with an internal soundcard.
  
 The reason a headphone is recommened over a headset is because your getting more sound for your money.  It's the same reason people recommend building your own computer Vs. buying a prebuilt one.  You get more performance and a lower price simultaneously.  This is exactly the case for the G4ME ZERO.  The Q701 is simply a better headphone, AND it's cheaper.  If you want to spend _more _money on a G4ME ZERO and it get something that doesn't sound as good as a Q701, that's up to you.  IMO the only two higher end headsets worth looking at are the PC360 the MMX300.
  
 The only difference between a headset and headphones is one comes with a pre-attached mic.  You can easily stick a mic on a pair of headphones if you need too (antlion modmic).  The reason headphones can leak more than headsets is because the good ones are often OPEN.  Most headsets are CLOSED, which is why they have a smaller more claustrophbobic soundstage and don't do as well for gaming.  The PC360s (and G4ME ONE) _are_ open, and they leak_ just as much_ as the Q701s, so you won't be able to use them in public either. 
  
  
 Your asking for too much in ONE headphone, trying to get something that's amazing for gaming, is easily portable, can be used in public (no leakage), _and _matches your PC color scheme. 
  
 You can go for a closed headphone like Change suggested, but don't expect to find a closed headphone that sounds on-par with the Q701_ for gaming_ in this price range.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Some of you guys are mixing up the G4ME ZERO and the G4ME ONE, the latter is the rebranded (supposedly) PC360 and is an open design with velour pads.
 The ZERO is a closed design with pleather earcups and are sound isolating, so if anything it's a refreshed PC 350 SE.
 I went ahead and splurged on the ZERO, it's out of stock on Amazon now, I just wanted this during the holidays and frankly as long as they sound good for a closed design paired with a SoundBlaster Omni then I am happy.


----------



## martin vegas

abk792 said:


> Question: I currently have a pair of cheap Turtle Beach headsets plugged into my tv through a 3.5 jack to RCA adapter into the audio out on my tv. As stated previously in this thread I plan on buying a more expensive pair of headphones. What would I need to get better audio through my tv or should I just plug them into the  RCA audio out like I'm currently doing?


 

 Get some sort of dac that works through optical to rca.. I use a console over optical to my r dac then rca out on the r dac to my sennheiser u320's(the headset has a usb headphone amp)..but you can get a cheaper dac like a fiio and it will still sound good!


----------



## chicolom

drunkentiger said:


> Some of you guys are mixing up the G4ME ZERO and the G4ME ONE, the latter is the rebranded (supposedly) PC360 and is an open design with velour pads.
> The ZERO is a closed design with pleather earcups and are sound isolating, so if anything it's a refreshed PC 350 SE.


 
  
 You're right.  My mistake.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 G4ME ZERO = PC350.
 G4ME ONE = PC360.
  
 I stand by everything else I said though.


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> Loving my new Philips X1 out of my SBZ - great set of phones - but the bass is a bit sloppy on _some tracks _I'm afraid. New cable coming soon. Still though.. could happily listen to them all day. One thing.. was lazily watching DayZ: SA twitch earlier, and in stereo - it's _really good _- even the cues at 5 and 7 O'clock. Sweet as.
> 
> One thing though.. I've got a bit of hearing damage (peskie crewing for bands in my youth), therefore I really ought to have got myself a bright set of phones (if indeed they would help at all). Basically my ears naturally roll off the treble - not hugely - but enough to notice, and the X1's are a slightly muffled to me up there. A Sabre Compass 2 is winging it's way toward me atm, but I never thought they'd really help too much with the X1's (it's a purchase for the future). Maybe I ought to grab a pair of DT 990's or equivelent.. I'd be willing to pay more if it does the trick - any ideas???.. do AKG's have better treble - I mean distinctly better??  Has to be good at games ofc


 
  
 Glad to hear you enjoying the X1.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The X1 does slightly roll parts of the treble.  Not a huge deal or anything.  If your looking to try something with more treble, you might want to pass on the AKGs though.  While they have slightly less rolled of treble and a bit better extension, they still have some warmth to their treble and they won't sound _that_ different from the X1 - so I wouldn't say they are _distinctly _better.  They get also lot of their brightness from their forward upper mids.  It might be better to go up a notch to something brighter. 
  
 DT990 was_ too bright_ for me personally, and I thought they had a funky timbre.  HE400 had a much more reasonable balance while still keeping bright-ish treble.  I just didn't love their mids and thought they were a tad recessed there.  HE500 may fix that mid issue though.  I though HE400 was OK for gaming, but it didn't really wow me. It wasn't quite as nice as X1 or AKGs IMO. 
  
 The T90 is bright sounding and has a really great soundstage for gaming.  The T90 has TONS of air.  It may be the airiest headphone I've heard.   It actually has a bit _too much_ _air _though (and I _love_ air).  The treble isn't spikey, it's just broadly pushed forward above everything which makes a lot of stuff sound too dry.  It's a shame, because apart from the forward treble it's actually a lovely headphone.  It has an exceptionally good soundstage, is very comfy, and if you EQ the treble down some the bass and mids are actually quite nice and with impressive technicalities.  It's also the most detailed and resolving headphone I've personally owned.  In the end though, the treble was too forward and I was always wanting to EQ it down, so I had to let it go.
  
 It sounds like Change's Shure 1840s are also pretty nice and with some clear treble.  I think their signature would be slightly leaner and more neutral than I'd personally prefer, and also their soundstage is probably a tad more intimate than what I look for.  But otherwise they seem solid.
  
 The TH600 will have more treble than the X1s while keeping a similar "fun" signature.  Should have less sloppy bass, but I'm not sure how the quantities will differ (I imagine the TH600 will have more).  The TH600 is still on my list of headphones I want to try.


----------



## Railius

chicolom said:


> You won't get better sound with a higher end soundcard as the Magni amp is already at least equal too if not better than the amps in the Titanium HD or Phoebus.
> 
> However, if you do get a higher end soundcard do NOT also buy a Magni because you will be wasting your money paying twice for two amps when you only need one.  So get one or the other.  If it were me I would go with the Magni amp + cheaper soundcard personally.  A good desktop amp will last you longer than soundcard as the latter can become outdated if and when new DSPs come out.  A solid desktop amp won't go out of date. It's also more versatile as you can move it around and use it with any source, something which is more difficult to do with an internal soundcard.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Very good answer  you really help me out there and yea.. im asking a lot i know, in case i go with the Q701 wich "cheap" card would you recommend? maybe the ASUS D1?
  
 I would go Magni + Q701 + the sound card you recommend OR
 PC360 + Soundcard with amp or
 Maybe PC360 with amp and cheap card (with the idea to use them on laptops.)


----------



## ABK792

martin vegas said:


> Get some sort of dac that works through optical to rca.. I use a console over optical to my r dac then rca out on the r dac to my sennheiser u320's(the headset has a usb headphone amp)..but you can get a cheaper dac like a fiio and it will still sound good!


 
 Would this do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Orei-DA21X-Premium-Converter-Headphone/dp/B00F4ORTZ6/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t


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## AxelCloris

abk792 said:


> Would this do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Orei-DA21X-Premium-Converter-Headphone/dp/B00F4ORTZ6/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t


 
  
 I'd go with a Fiio D3 over that DAC. Right around the same price.


----------



## Nhilzen

chicolom said:


> You're right.  My mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The PC363d is a PC360 with a usb soundcard? the mic and drivers are the same? 
  
 (Sorry if this was already asked)


----------



## chicolom

railius said:


> Very good answer  you really help me out there and yea.. im asking a lot i know, in case i go with the Q701 wich "cheap" card would you recommend? maybe the ASUS D1?
> 
> I would go Magni + Q701 + the sound card you recommend OR
> PC360 + Soundcard with amp or
> Maybe PC360 with amp and cheap card (with the idea to use them on laptops.)


 
  
 For internal cards, I would say the Xonar DGX is the cheapest route.  I'm not sure why PurpleAngel is recommending the Xonar D1.  He's more familiar with Asus cards, so maybe he knows something I don't, but AFAIK both cards feature the SAME Dolby Headphone DSP and both have optical outputs.  The DS1 costs twice as much as the DGX though.  If your going with the Magni, it makes sense to go with the cheapest soundcard option as you don't want to waste money on it's internal amp.  You'll only be using the soundcard to do the processing, not the amping - if you already have a Magni.
  
 If you go the Magni route, don't forget about the FiiO D3K.  This is an external optical DAC that you would put between whichever soundcard you get and the Magni.  It lets you take a straight digital signal out of the soundcard to feed the amp.   You can skip it if you want, but it may improve the sound a tad over taking an analog signal straight from the soundcard.
  
  
  

If you get the Q701, I would get what I said before, which is  Q701 + Magni + FiiO D3K + Sound Blaster Z (OEM version) OR Xonar DGX.  You hook them up in that order.
  
If you get the PC360, I'm not sure I would get a Magni as a soundcard may be good enough to amp them by itself. 
  
If you want to get a soundcard that you can use also use on laptops, then you should look at the Xonar U3 (Dolby Headphone) or the Sound Blaster Omni (SBX Pro).  These are little USB soundcards that offer the same virtual surround sound.  They have wimpy amps though, so you'll probably want a FiiO D3k + Magni to go with them.
   
 

 Keep in mind I'm not going to tell you which surround sound DSP to go with, because that's highly subjective and up to your personal preference.  I would listen to some Dolby Headphone or SBX pro demos to see which you prefer.


----------



## chicolom

nhilzen said:


> The PC363d is a PC360 with a usb soundcard? the mic and drivers are the same?
> 
> (Sorry if this was already asked)


 
  
 Correct.
  
 I remember when it first came out it literally said it was a "special edition of the P360" on the product page.  Sennheiser has since changed the pages to make them more ambiguous.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-9-2-2013-sony-ma900-added/12975#post_9355872


----------



## Railius

chicolom said:


> For internal cards, I would say the Xonar DGX is the cheapest route.  I'm not sure why PurpleAngel is recommending the Xonar D1.  He's more familiar with Asus cards, so maybe he knows something I don't, but AFAIK both cards feature the SAME Dolby Headphone DSP and both have optical outputs.  The DS1 costs twice as much as the DGX though.  If your going with the Magni, it makes sense to go with the cheapest soundcard option as you don't want to waste money on it's internal amp.  You'll only be using the soundcard to do the processing, not the amping - if you already have a Magni.
> 
> If you go the Magni route, don't forget about the FiiO D3K.  This is an external optical DAC that you would put between whichever soundcard you get and the Magni.  It lets you take a straight digital signal out of the soundcard to feed the amp.   You can skip it if you want, but it may improve the sound a tad over taking an analog signal straight from the soundcard.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll go for Dolby Headphone because it's apparently better for fps games, in this case i'd rather go Xonar DGX or Xonar U3 (because of the price), checking on those sound card, dont i need a 7.1 card? Maybe that's why he picked the D1 
  
 If i go with a D1 card i wont be able to buy the FiiO D3k (no money), unless i go DGX or U3, but can you clarify the difference in soundwise between a 5.1 card and a 7.1 card.. remember my goal here
  
 Edit: Btw does my card suck so much? This is the onboard one.. I can make an effort to get some more bucks to buy everything that you're advising me, but can i get anything good from this board or nope?
  
Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC 
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-retasking
*Audio Feature :*
- Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound
- DTS Ultra PC II
- DTS Connect
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
  
 Thanks for all the help man!


----------



## martin vegas

abk792 said:


> Would this do the job? http://www.amazon.com/Orei-DA21X-Premium-Converter-Headphone/dp/B00F4ORTZ6/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t


 
*This one would be the better choice because it's 5.1 over RCA* Orei DA34X Premium Digital to Analog Audio Decoder SPDIF/Coaxial 5.1-Channel Input to RCA L/R/3.5mm Headphone Output.. All this means is you will still get sound from your console while playing dvds or blue rays and not have to set your console on stereo rather than 5.1 because the Orei DA34X decodes dolby!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is no such thing as 5.1 over RCA. At the most, all you can get is Dolby Pro Logic II.

*Edit:* Ah, you mean it converts Dolby/DTS to PCM/Stereo?

The Fiio D07 does that, but the D03k doesn't. If I were Fiio, I'd just discontinue the D03 and just sell the D07, so as people don't get confused and start complaining that the product doesn't work because all they heard is garbled noise.

That Orei DAC seems to be quite a bang for buck, though who knows how good the dac chip is. Fiio uses some good Wolfson dac chips on theirs.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> There is no such thing as 5.1 over RCA. At the most, all you can get is Dolby Pro Logic II.
> 
> *Edit:* Ah, you mean it converts Dolby/DTS to PCM/Stereo?
> 
> ...


 

 It decodes the sound to stereo yes..if it never, he wouldn't get any sound with his consoles blue ray or dvd player because the console would have to be set on stereo..that's why a lot of people in England buy dacmagics because they decode the signal..most don't!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Agreed. Though, why would you do that, when something as cheap as a first gen DSS on Ebay costs less and has Dolby headphone?


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Agreed. Though, why would you do that, when something as cheap as a first gen DSS on Ebay costs less and has Dolby headphone?


 

 You can still download movies to your console and watch Netflix and youtube play games and get sound if the dac is just stereo with the console set to stereo..but you can't watch dvds or blue ray because the console needs to be set on 5.1 for this, and on that setting there is no sound!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, why would you get that DAC when the DSS is a Dolby headphone DAC/AMP? Watching Blu-Ray, you set the Bitstream to Mix, and you'll get Dolby Headphone out of that. You don' have to change any settings. Leave it on optical/Bitstream Mix, and you're good to go for all purposes with the DSS/Mixamp/etc


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Again, why would you get that DAC when the DSS is a Dolby headphone DAC/AMP?


 

 I agree,It's just finding one new..he could get the dss2 that has been made for turtle beach headphones anyway..the only reason I never got the dss2 is because they are supposed sound bad with sennheiser headsets, i don't use EBAY, I don't trust computers for putting account info on because I have had a trojan horse before..i am happy with my arcam r dac over rca to my sennheisers..the r dacs a better dac than the dac magic and dac magic +.. I had a similar cheap dac to the Orei DA34X and they are good value with decent sound for money!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A used DSS on ebay for $20 or so. Its a no brainer. Cheapest way to get Dolby Headphone on consoles...

The DSS2 doesnt have Dolby Headphone and uses its own generic virtual surround. I haven't tested it.

The last 2 Mixamp pros I bought were from ebay.


----------



## kenshinhimura

mad lust envy said:


> Again, why would you get that DAC when the DSS is a Dolby headphone DAC/AMP? Watching Blu-Ray, you set the Bitstream to Mix, and you'll get Dolby Headphone out of that. You don' have to change any settings. Leave it on optical/Bitstream Mix, and you're good to go for all purposes with the DSS/Mixamp/etc


 

 that probably works with most but not all blurays. i know for sure it didnt work with my bluray of The Crow with dts-hd. =(


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It works for EVERY Blu-ray, as both DTS and Dolby Hd get converted ti Dolby Headphone. All signals will work once you set the PS3/4 to Bitstream Mix. Keep in mind that certain previews and trailers, etc aren't even encoded in either, and are basic PCM/Stereo at least until the movie actually starts.


----------



## ABK792

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm thinking about something else now. So there's a few things I need: the headphones, some sort of dac/amp, and a mic preferably with a mute button. The headphones I was planning on buying are the Sennheiser 588's which are about $130. Now I know you've reviewed the Astro a40's, Mad Lust Envy. How would you compare the A40's and the 598's (I know you reviewed the 598's which have to be similar although probably better than the 588's.) Now between buying a good mic and dac/amp + the headphones it will probably end up being about the same price as the A40 which I can get for like 220-230. So maybe I should just get those? Thanks for the help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want less cable clutter, get either a headset, or a headphone with a removable 3.5mm cable (like the Fidelio X1, though that's expensive).

Honestly, I don't know what you want. If cable clutter isn't a problem, just get a 558 + some external mic + Mixamp. You can always buy a used Mixamp. Hell, I'll even sell you my 2011 Mixamp for $80 total. Assuming you live in the states.

I have the 5.8 so i don't need the Mixamp pro anymore.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> If you want less cable clutter, get either a headset, or a headphone with a removable 3.5mm cable (like the Fidelio X1, though that's expensive).
> 
> Honestly, I don't know what you want. If cable clutter isn't a problem, just get a 558 + some external mic + Mixamp. You can always buy a used Mixamp. Hell, I'll even sell you my 2011 Mixamp for $80 total. Assuming you live in the states.
> 
> I have the 5.8 so i don't need the Mixamp pro anymore.


 

 Sounds like a bargain..just add the 558's and your ready to game..you can get Logitech mics for a good price!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387906093&sr=8-2&keywords=clip+on+mic

This mic seems to be like the Dealextreme clip-on mic, without having to wait 10 years for it to arrive at your house (as long as you buy it from one of the American listings). Not sure on the quality, but it's worth a shot. The DX clip on will take like a month (trust me). I bought two of them on two separate occasions, and it took forever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So many good games on PC for sale. HOW DO I EVEN...


----------



## Railius

to *Chicolom, Mad Lust Envy and PurpleAngel* so my cart is almost ready thanks to you guys!, I'm sure i want Dolby Headphone so im not sure if i should go for D1 or DX or DGX (5.1) or only IF this U3 is comparable in soundwise to the cards, i'd definitely pick the XONAR U3 because it's cheap and portable but ONLY if i'd get what im looking for, so.
  
AKG Q701 - Magni -  FiiO D3 - Xonar (D1/DX/DGX/U3) to PC  = ~370$
  
 Will i need some sort of cable to plug any of those properly? to use on my phone?
  
*Mad Lust Envy* I want to experience this 
  


> I then hooked them up to the Mixamp, and fired up Call of Duty 4... let's just say... my mind was BLOWN. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I was hearing EVERYTHING. Sounds were coming from all around me. I could hear exactly where people were around me. A pin drop was easily distinguishable for me. I did notice the distinct lack of bass, but for this game, I couldn't care less. I felt like I had an unfair advantage against those who DIDN'T wear a headset. Bass was the last thing on my mind. My speakers sounded like pure crap next to this ridiculous soundfield I was suddenly enveloped in. Dolby Headphone and Headphones in general showed me what a miraculous combo they could be, and I told myself I would never seriously game without either of them ever again. I had converted. This was just but the first step into this disease called upgraditis.


 
​ With that set up, if i should change something just tell me. 
  
 Thanks in advance guys! I've learned a lot, cant wait to have my headphones, so which card?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you plan on using the U3 for other laptops or desktops, the DG is the internal soundcard equivalent, FWIH.

That setup seems legit.

PC - Xonar (Xonar software SPDIF setting set to PCM - Dolby Headphone, configuration of speakers set to 7.1) - optical out - cable - dac - amp (Magni in your case) - Q701

You'd do some service to yourself by actually have an SPDIF capable DAC like the (Fiio D03) and not attaching the amp directly to the Xonar to not double amp. Up to you. Though if you're using a soundcard as your main dac, you'll probably attach the amp to the RCA out on the soundcard. You can't get DH this way, but it's the ideal way for MUSIC purposes, meaning you'll have to swap out. This won't be an issue if you have something like the Fiio D03. That way when you're not gaming, you can just uncheck Dolby Headphone on the Xonar panel.

The Xonar panel should have:

Sample rate 48khz
Analog out: Headphone. the little hammer icon next to this, click on it and change it to Exciter Mode. 
Spdif out: Checked box with PCM displayed
Dolby headphone checked. When you click DH, make sure it's in DH-2, as that's the best setting for it. Uncheck Dolby headphone when listening to music or other stereo signals.


----------



## Railius

mad lust envy said:


> Unless you plan on using the U3 for other laptops or desktops, the DG is the internal soundcard equivalent, FWIH.
> 
> That setup seems legit.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea im plugging the Magni to the FiiO D03 and the fiio to the Xonar U3
  
 About the U3 would i get any better if i buy a DX or D1? or there's no need?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No need, since you're ONLY taking the Dolby Headphone processing from it digitally. The actual sound is coming from the DAC (Fiio) and amp (Magni).


----------



## Railius

mad lust envy said:


> No need, since you're ONLY taking the Dolby Headphone processing from it digitally. The actual sound is coming from the DAC (Fiio) and amp (Magni).


 
 Thanks!!! I hope this blow my mind for the 1st time  I've never experienced a great sound quality other than the ear buds of my phone lol.
 Cant wait.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With the proper game, it should. Have you done the Dolby headphone test on the first page? Can you clearly hear the surround positioning on it? Some people may not.


----------



## Railius

mad lust envy said:


> With the proper game, it should. Have you done the Dolby headphone test on the first page? Can you clearly hear the surround positioning on it? Some people may not.


 
  
  
 Yes i definitely did hear the surround positioning with DH


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good. That isn't even near the best demo for it, so expect improvements with some games.


----------



## kenshinhimura

mad lust envy said:


> It works for EVERY Blu-ray, as both DTS and Dolby Hd get converted ti Dolby Headphone. All signals will work once you set the PS3/4 to Bitstream Mix. Keep in mind that certain previews and trailers, etc aren't even encoded in either, and are basic PCM/Stereo at least until the movie actually starts.


 

 after playing around with the settings more i was able to get it to work. had to do with the output device settings.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's a little harder to find on the PS4, but it's there.


----------



## ABK792

mad lust envy said:


> If you want less cable clutter, get either a headset, or a headphone with a removable 3.5mm cable (like the Fidelio X1, though that's expensive).
> 
> Honestly, I don't know what you want. If cable clutter isn't a problem, just get a 558 + some external mic + Mixamp. You can always buy a used Mixamp. Hell, I'll even sell you my 2011 Mixamp for $80 total. Assuming you live in the states.
> 
> I have the 5.8 so i don't need the Mixamp pro anymore.


 
  
 Alright, I think I'm just gonna buy the 588 and the Turtle beach DSS off of Ebay. And hopefully the version of the modmic with a mute will be available to purchase soon. As for my PC just getting a new sound card would be my best bet right? No need for anything else?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're golden. For cheap, the Xonar U3 or DG will fit the bill for PC use.


----------



## ABK792

mad lust envy said:


> You're golden. For cheap, the Xonar U3 or DG will fit the bill for PC use.


 
  The DG sadly won't work for me because I only have a free PCI-E slot but I'll look into getting the U3. Thanks a lot for the help!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the U3 is simply usb. Works like a champ.


----------



## Change is Good

Guys, keep your eyes open for Amazon warehouse deals.

Last in night before going to bed I saw some white Q701s for $100... but are sold out already. I've also been seeing other deeply discounted used headphones from their warehouse.

I guess we can expect drop offs in prices after tomorrow, so they can make storage room for 2014.


----------



## AxelCloris

This is a good point. They had HD800 on a fire sale last week as well. Warehouse deals, of course.


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.amazon.com/Activision-Singularity-Download/dp/B00ATF5YY8/?tag=viglink129408-20
  
 Singularity for 7.49. Looks like a UE Game, maybe activates OpenAL per Ini. Game always sounded decent to me and it's a Raven Game.


----------



## martin vegas

fegefeuer said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Activision-Singularity-Download/dp/B00ATF5YY8/?tag=viglink129408-20
> 
> Singularity for 7.49. Looks like a UE Game, maybe activates OpenAL per Ini. Game always sounded decent to me and it's a Raven Game.


 

 Be loads of bargains in the game stores with the January sales..be getting rid of old stock.. I want bioshock infinite the last batman and a few others..i just wish dark souls 2 was out now..got to wait until march I think!


----------



## Railius

Merry Christmas to the Head-fi Family


----------



## martin vegas

Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Mackem

Any advice on super comfortable closed headphones for gaming and music? I don't play many FPS games and I want something for my dance and kpop music while I'm playing SC2 or LoL. £150 GBP budget. I have a Xonar DG.


----------



## Change is Good

mackem said:


> Any advice on super comfortable closed headphones for gaming and music? I don't play many FPS games and I want something for my dance and kpop music while I'm playing SC2 or LoL. £150 GBP budget. I have a Xonar DG.




There aren't really many options, unfortunately, in that price range for closed headphones that fair well for both gaming AND bassy music.

I have tried quite a few, and really the only one that I liked to game with when I had it was the Soundmagic HP100. The SRH840 was OK but its soundstage was a bit clostraphobic for gaming... similar to the ATH-M50. I've read that the SRH*940* is fantastic for gaming, but I've also read its bass is a bit anemic and it may also be too bright for some... so that may not be a good choice for your music preference.

I think you're best bet would be the HP100... unless you can push your budget up a little more and get the MRSpeakers Mad Dog 3.2

You can also wait until MLE posts his review of the surprise closed headphone that was sent to him. He has mentioned that it's surpirsingly good... though, I'm not sure what the price point of it will be.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Nice to see someone else who likes kpop, can't wait to hook up SoundBlaster Omni and G4ME ZERO tomorrow, will try to burn in and put it through its paces. It better make my kpop sound damn good, and games.


----------



## xela3

I currently own the hd 598, and ath m50 and while i enjoy the hd 598 for gaming and watching anime on my pc i was looking for a more immersive set so after reading the reviews would the Beyerdynamic DT990 pro still be a great option? Or should I start looking for something else also I mostly listen to japanese anime music, rock , and electronic so I have no idea if the dt 990 pro is good for that music but thats not a buying factor


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anime music tends to dwell on the bright side. The DT990 is extremely bright, so music like that will be quite grating to the ears. I'd suggest the Fidelio X1, if you can score one for a good price. The 990 pro is a great headphone, but the treble is a definite problem.


----------



## Coppermonkey

Past few days have been a trip trying to figure out what audio solution I want for my gaming rig in January. The headphones/headset I choose are pretty much exclusively for gaming as I could care less about my music.
  
 Choices are pretty much get AKG Q701's and figure out what amp/dac or sound card to get (This part is throwing me for a loop, so many opinions on what sounds better, having an amp that can drive it properly, etc)
  
 Or

 Cut out all the hassle and get the Sennheiser PC 363D's and just put up with a headset.
  
 Who knew audio could be so complicated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's just for gaming, the Q701 is overkill, really. You need a pretty strong amp for them, and if it's just for gaming, it's just so unnecessary to get them. I'd get something like the HD558/598/PC360 instead. If you want more immersion, the Q701 isn't going to be much better than those either. Positional accuracy and soundstage between them is more or less same-y. You're looking at refinement with the Q701, not necessarily a better gaming performer. If you already own a strong amp for other uses, then the Q701 is golden, but if not, it's not logical to get it. the Q701 is one of those rare headphones that improve with more money you throw at them. So if you half ass it, you'll effectively just overspend for a product you're not taking full advantage of.

I'd suggest the MA900, but right now, they're going for quite a high price.


----------



## Coppermonkey

mad lust envy said:


> If it's just for gaming, the Q701 is overkill, really. You need a pretty strong amp for them, and if it's just for gaming, it's just so unnecessary to get them. I'd get something like the HD558/598/PC360 instead. If you want more immersion, the Q701 isn't going to be much better than those either. Positional accuracy and soundstage between them is more or less same-y. You're looking at refinement with the Q701, not necessarily a better gaming performer. If you already own a strong amp for other uses, then the Q701 is golden, but if not, it's not logical to get it.
> 
> I'd suggest the MA900, but right now, they're going for quite a high price.


 
  
 Ya this audio set up will be from scratch, I haven't owned a sound card since....2002. Was just overwhelmed with the fact that I would have to get the Q701's and an Amp/DAC just for gaming. Looks like I may settle on the headset options then!


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> Anime music tends to dwell on the bright side. The DT990 is extremely bright, so music like that will be quite grating to the ears. I'd suggest the Fidelio X1, if you can score one for a good price. The 990 pro is a great headphone, but the treble is a definite problem.




Thanks for the info but I'd be primarily using it for gaming and would it really be that bad since for now I've mostly been using the ath m50 for music and if not the dt 990 are $150 is there anything as good you know of around the same price 
Also I forgot to mention since I'm using the hd 598 for gaming right now is the dt 990 a lot better since I'm not into competitive gaming


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387906093&sr=8-2&keywords=clip+on+mic
> 
> This mic seems to be like the Dealextreme clip-on mic, without having to wait 10 years for it to arrive at your house (as long as you buy it from one of the American listings). Not sure on the quality, but it's worth a shot. The DX clip on will take like a month (trust me). I bought two of them on two separate occasions, and it took forever.




This is the lapel mic I bought a year ago, told you guys about it. Sounded better than my old platronics headset I had for my Xbox (which in turn sounded better than the official chat headset), so I bought a 3 pack and have been slowly giving them out.

Buy with confidence.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool, so no need for the DX clip on then, unless you like waiting, lol. It's cool that they sell these in packs.


----------



## NamelessPFG

coppermonkey said:


> Past few days have been a trip trying to figure out what audio solution I want for my gaming rig in January. The headphones/headset I choose are pretty much exclusively for gaming as I could care less about my music.
> 
> Choices are pretty much get AKG Q701's and figure out what amp/dac or sound card to get (This part is throwing me for a loop, so many opinions on what sounds better, having an amp that can drive it properly, etc)
> 
> ...


 
  
 First off, you've gotta budget for a sound card with virtual surround, at the very least. All of the recommendations here and elsewhere hinge on that.
  
 Second, if this is a gaming-only set, then you can probably get by with something $150 or less and be perfectly happy, since the main reason this guide exists is that we want a "do-it-all" headphone that works well with both games and music.
  


mad lust envy said:


> If it's just for gaming, the Q701 is overkill, really. You need a pretty strong amp for them, and if it's just for gaming, it's just so unnecessary to get them. I'd get something like the HD558/598/PC360 instead. If you want more immersion, the Q701 isn't going to be much better than those either. Positional accuracy and soundstage between them is more or less same-y. You're looking at refinement with the Q701, not necessarily a better gaming performer. If you already own a strong amp for other uses, then the Q701 is golden, but if not, it's not logical to get it. the Q701 is one of those rare headphones that improve with more money you throw at them. So if you half ass it, you'll effectively just overspend for a product you're not taking full advantage of.
> 
> I'd suggest the MA900, but right now, they're going for quite a high price.


 
  
 And to think I was envious of whoever bought them here for $110 shipped after getting mine for $150 shipped...then again, I tend to price Stax Lambdas in the $220-320 range with transformer box, and speaker amps to drive said transformer boxes are pretty common. Then there's that whole "MMX 300 for $142" score I just had...
  
 My notions of headphone value and pricing must be really, really skewed by this point.


----------



## Mackem

drunkentiger said:


> Nice to see someone else who likes kpop, can't wait to hook up SoundBlaster Omni and G4ME ZERO tomorrow, will try to burn in and put it through its paces. It better make my kpop sound damn good, and games.


 
 Let me know how that headset is man, I've been looking at getting a decent headset. Oh and Merry Christmas!


----------



## xela3

Mad lust is the dt990 still a lot better then the hd 598 for immersive gaming or something else around $150


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Just be prepared for quite a bit more treble, and less, thinner mids.


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> Yes. Just be prepared for quite a bit more treble, and less, thinner mids.



Alright thanks I'll get it I can deal with the treble I mean it can't be that bad if anything I'll eq it but also what's a cheap amp you recommend for it 
I forgot to ask if there's a huge difference between the premium and pro


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cheapest would be something like the E9k/E12. It can get loud off less power, but seriously, if you're gonna use the 990 Pro as a main headphone, don't skimp out on powering them properly.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

mackem said:


> Let me know how that headset is man, I've been looking at getting a decent headset. Oh and Merry Christmas!


 

 Merry Christmas Everyone!!!! Well for one the thing is insanely comfortable, more so than my G35 by a fair margin. Quality is solid, wish it was black but it's going to be on my head anyways 
 Downloading the SoundBlaster Omni software now.


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> Cheapest would be something like the E9k/E12. It can get loud off less power, but seriously, if you're gonna use the 990 Pro as a main headphone, don't skimp out on powering them properly.



What do you suggest then since up till now I've been using 2013 astro a40 for consoles, hd 598 for pc gaming and ath m50s for on the go so I don't have any amps cept the mixamp
Also is it worth getting the premiums over the pros for the extra money


----------



## Railius

drunkentiger said:


> Merry Christmas Everyone!!!! Well for one the thing is insanely comfortable, more so than my G35 by a fair margin. Quality is solid, wish it was black but it's going to be on my head anyways
> Downloading the SoundBlaster Omni software now.


 
 Do you have another headphone/set to compare the zero with? sound wise.


----------



## AxelCloris

Left 4 Dead 2 is currently free on Steam, assuming you can get their store to load under all the stress. It's only free today, so get it while you can!


----------



## DrunkenTiger

railius said:


> Do you have another headphone/set to compare the zero with? sound wise.


 

 No, this is the most expensive audio purchase I've made so far lol!
 Really happy with them so far, mic quality is superb too. I have SBX surround at 67% and Crystalizer at 40%, all the latter does is mess with the dynamic range I think, but it makes my music sound more energetic so why not! I've got to tinker some and see if I can't find a config that sounds even better I suppose. My SoundBlaster Omni didn't come with the remote somehow, guess it's not an American feature of it. Wonder if I can buy it separately for cheap, kinda seemed cool.


----------



## Railius

drunkentiger said:


> No, this is the most expensive audio purchase I've made so far lol!
> Really happy with them so far, mic quality is superb too. I have SBX surround at 67% and Crystalizer at 40%, all the latter does is mess with the dynamic range I think, but it makes my music sound more energetic so why not! I've got to tinker some and see if I can't find a config that sounds even better I suppose. My SoundBlaster Omni didn't come with the remote somehow, guess it's not an American feature of it. Wonder if I can buy it separately for cheap, kinda seemed cool.


 
 test them with a fps game, see how's the surround.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

railius said:


> test them with a fps game, see how's the surround.


 

 I have Borderlands 2 and Battlefield 4 installed. Gonna play some BL2 now.


----------



## xela3

what amp should i get for the dt 990 pro


----------



## DrunkenTiger

SBX surround definitely works well, I can't say it's mind-blowing coming from a G35, but it works and sound is good in game and for music.


----------



## xela3

drunkentiger said:


> SBX surround definitely works well, I can't say it's mind-blowing coming from a G35, but it works and sound is good in game and for music.


 
 ok Ill consider that I heard I'm supposed to look at a desktop amp though
 also I'm still new to headphones and I just realized the dt 990s have been out for a really long time so are these still viable for more years from now


----------



## martin vegas

I got bf4 premium for Christmas..but no new maps..already pre ordered my bf4 on release day and have china rising which is a pile of crap..merry Christmas!


----------



## Railius

drunkentiger said:


> SBX surround definitely works well, I can't say it's mind-blowing coming from a G35, but it works and sound is good in game and for music.


 
 I think you need an amp to drive them properly since they have an impedance of 150ohm, and if it's not mind blowing then is deff not worth it, they almost 300$


----------



## DrunkenTiger

railius said:


> I think you need an amp to drive them properly since they have an impedance of 150ohm, and if it's not mind blowing then is deff not worth it, they almost 300$


 

 The Omni has a good amp, it can drive up to 600ohm cans lol They sound really good, doesn't mean they have to be mindblowing...


----------



## cheuh

axelcloris said:


> Left 4 Dead 2 is currently free on Steam, assuming you can get their store to load under all the stress. It's only free today, so get it while you can!


 
  
 Highly recommended game. Excellent game to play with a group of friends. I have over 1k hours on this game and it's a ton of fun. It's also a great game to test out the soundstage and imaging/positional accuracy of your headphones. Get it while it's still free...


----------



## chicolom




----------



## AxelCloris

But, Santa, how can you hear the audio properly through your hat? There's more than one layer of fabric in the way.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> But, Santa, how can you hear the audio properly through your hat? There's more than one layer of fabric in the way.


 
  
 He's a saint... so he can hear through everything...


----------



## Javizbot

Would the AKG K702 paired up with Astro Mixamp Pro (2013 Edition) be good for gaming? If so would the Mixamp be all I need to get them working or would I have to get anything else?


----------



## AxelCloris

javizbot said:


> Would the AKG K702 paired up with Astro Mixamp Pro (2013 Edition) be good for gaming? If so would the Mixamp be all I need to get them working or would I have to get anything else?


 
  
 You'd need an amp for those headphones to run between them and the Mixamp. The x70x do so enjoy power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Worst case scenario, you can play with the K702 and Mixamp alone without voice chat, but if you're just gonna do that, don't bother with the K702, as you're effectively throwing your money away and barely tapping into the K702 potential. You'd do better with a 598+Mixamp alone if not getting an external amp.

The 2013 Mixamp also tends to be a little hissy.


----------



## Javizbot

Appreciate the fast replies!
  
 In that case would getting a Fiio E07K solve the issue? Also is the mixamp necessary to produce surround sound or would getting the razer surround program do the job?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely not. The E07k is much too weak. The K702 is a ***** to drive, and needs a proper DESKTOP amp to power.

One thing to understand, power doesn't stack. You need a substantial boost in power to drive a headphone past what the Mixamp does. Simply chaining two portable amps (Mixamp+E07k) does not equate to twice the power.

Don't bother with the K702 unless you have at LEAST the E9K (and that's not even what I consider a proper pairing). More powerful would be even better. Don't half ass it with the K702.

Any homework done on the K702 would easily let you know that it's one of the hardest headphones to drive.


----------



## AxelCloris

A Schiit Vali/Magni can power the K702. They're both capable amps. $120/100 respectively. They're some of the best entry level desktop amps you can get. I've had both.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't use the Magni with the K702 simply because the Magni is a lean/bright-ish amp which I feel suit warm headphones best, not dryish more analytical headphones like the K702. I don't know about the Vali however. The Vali will probably be my next amp... though judging from it's specs, is more suited for medium to higher impedances (I assume the 300ohm range is where it does it's best). The Magni has about 2x the power at lower impedance, and they're comparable at least in power at higher impedance. In that case, the hybrid-tube sound on the Vali will probably be more pleasing than the Magni's dry SS sound.

I'd personally go for the Vali over the Magni for the K702...


----------



## Javizbot

Ah okay do you guys think the Matrix M-Stage Headphone Amplifier or Maverick Audio Tubemagic A1 will be good with the K702?


----------



## xela3

Mad lust what Fiio desktop amp should I get for the dt 990 pro I ordered the cans and they arrive Friday


----------



## Evshrug

^ they only make one...

Merry Christmas everybody!


----------



## Change is Good

javizbot said:


> Ah okay do you guys think the Matrix M-Stage Headphone Amplifier or [COLOR=333333]Maverick Audio Tubemagic A1[/COLOR] will be good with the K702?




Didn't they just suggest the Magni or Vali? Sounds to me like you aren't even reading their whole replies, my friend.

What is your budget for an amp? To answer part of this question... yes, the M-Stage is a good choice at its price. Another option would be the Asgard 2.


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone plan on purchasing any EA games for their PS4 on Amazon? If so I have a coupon for an additional $5 off its already discounted price. It expires on Saturday at 11:59pm PST. Shoot me a PM if interested...


----------



## Javizbot

Ah I can see why you would think that. Mad Lust Envy mentioned the E9K however he also said that he doesn't consider those a good pairing. AxelCloris suggested 2 different amps and Mad Lust Envy shortly after posted that he didn't know if they would be a good match but said he would personally go for the Vali. I  looked around for something around the same price point and found those 2 amps that I mentioned.
 As for my price range I would like to stay under $250.


----------



## Change is Good

javizbot said:


> Ah I can see why you would think that. Mad Lust Envy mentioned the E9K however he also said that he doesn't consider those a good pairing. AxelCloris suggested 2 different amps and Mad Lust Envy shortly after posted that he didn't know if they would be a good match but said he would personally go for the Vali. I  looked around for something around the same price point and found those 2 amps that I mentioned.
> As for my price range I would like to stay under $250.


 
  
 I have paired the M-stage with all of AKGs open headphones from Q701 on up... and had exceptional results. So I would imagine the same would apply to the K702...


----------



## Javizbot

Ah thank you! Would you consider that set up to be good alongside oculus rift games?


----------



## Change is Good

Never tried...
  
 Anyway, now is a perfect time to grab an M-Stage as there is a limited quantity sold by Shenzen Audio and fulfilled by Amazon. Great prices, too, at $209 for the original and $259 for the USB model.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-m-stage-HPA-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0056ER22E
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW
  
 I can imagine these are now discounted due to the M-Stage HPA-2 that was just released.


----------



## Javizbot

Sounds good! Thanks again!


----------



## Change is Good

I paid retail value of $289 for the USB model about a year ago... and had it shipped from China. Great bargain, then, and even greater, now... plus you get it in a few days


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

javizbot said:


> Ah okay do you guys think the Matrix M-Stage Headphone Amplifier or [COLOR=333333]Maverick Audio Tubemagic A1[/COLOR] will be good with the K702?




The Matrix M-stage is one of the most recommended amps for the K702. 


As for the 990, either the E9K or E12 will suit it well.

Ooh, a new Mstage? What's changed? I have always wanted to try one. When the Asgard came out, my desire for the Mstage dwindled, but pretty much everyone I know has stated the MStage to be better than the Asgard. As for the Asgard 2, I dunno how it stacks up to the Mstage, but I think the fuller/warmer Mstage would probably be more ideal for my tastes than the very neutral Asgard 2.


----------



## mpawluk91

I'm gonna have to post my pics of my gaming rig

PS3 running optical to dss then custom handmade 3.5mm male to male to my arrow 4g then into another custom handmade headphone cable that it plug into my ue 6000

End result is relentlessly clean and beautiful


----------



## kman1211

javizbot said:


> Ah okay do you guys think the Matrix M-Stage Headphone Amplifier or Maverick Audio Tubemagic A1 will be good with the K702?


 

 What I found with the K702 is that it's not as power hungry as people say it is, although it does demand some power to sound right. Rather it's more amp and system finicky than anything, the headphone is simply picky. I have read a lot of good things about the K7xx series and the Matrix M-Stage pairing. The Tubemagic A1 will depend heavily on what tubes are used in the amp.


----------



## Change is Good

So, I ordered a chromecast from Amazon at the student discount of $25 and must say I'm pretty impressed at the streaming quality this little gadget provides. I can't wait until they integrate more apps with it... seeing that they just added about ten just recently. 

My reason for grabbing one was a) it was cheap and b) I wanted another device to stream Netflix and stuff to keep from excess wear on my PS4.

I was using my PS3 for Netfilx but recently had to sell that, too... yikes :/

I know Roku would have been a better option for slightly more money, but I wanted to give Google a shot since they impressed me with their recent Nexus 7 and now the Nexus 5... which, by the way, is working flawlessly with Chromecast. From the looks of it there are going to be tons of more apps integrated in the near future.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The Matrix M-stage is one of the most recommended amps for the K702.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, supposedly it's the same amp but with a new design and upgraded DAC.
  
 To be honest, I prefer the M-Stage over the AG2. For some reason it just pairs better with dynamic headphones... as opposed to how the AG2 paired better with MD.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So, I ordered a chromecast from Amazon at the student discount of $25 and must say I'm pretty impressed at the streaming quality this little gadget provides. I can't wait until they integrate more apps with it... seeing that they just added about ten just recently.
> 
> My reason for grabbing one was a) it was cheap and b) I wanted another device to stream Netflix and stuff to keep from excess wear on my PS4.
> 
> ...




The chromecast is a wonderful streamer if you have a device to control it easily. I stream from my computer to the chromecast and it's wonderful. Netflix and YouTube at your fingertips easily on the TV. Totally worth the money even at full price. Sure the Roku is a bit better. But it's also twice the price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm waiting for the day when we don't need an external device to streamcast things. Like before I replaced a Samsung LED I bought it with the Panasonic VT60, the Samsung TV I had mirrored whatever was on my Samsung Galaxy Note 2 perfectly. I miss that, seeing as now my TV is a Panasonic, and doesn't mirror my Samsung phone. 

Could've sworn I got it to work before, but I can't be arsed to figure it out.


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone here tried one of those smart TVs?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Anyone here tried one of those smart TVs?


 
  
 Honestly I've been underwhelmed by smart TVs. Sure they are convenient for having all the apps on the TV itself. But a dedicated playback device will always give you a better user experience. I use my Blu-ray player and it gives a better experience then my friend's 2 year old smart TV.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Ooh, a new Mstage? What's changed? I have always wanted to try one. When the Asgard came out, my desire for the Mstage dwindled, but pretty much everyone I know has stated the MStage to be better than the Asgard. As for the Asgard 2, I dunno how it stacks up to the Mstage, but I think the fuller/warmer Mstage would probably be more ideal for my tastes than the very neutral Asgard 2.


 
  
  
  
 1)  They added a muting relay during power ON and OFF.
 2)  Changed 0-10-18-20 dB gain switches to a fixed 15dB gain instead.
 3)  DAC version has a new DAC.  I'd still probably go with a stand-alone-DAC though.
 4)  Maybe switched the opamp...
 5)  Sexy new face plates! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I imagine it will sound nearly identical to the old model.
  
 Also, IMO the M-stage isn't _that _warm sounding.  It doesn't sound _that _different from other solid-state amps I've tried in that regard.  If anything my iCan sounds _slightly _warmer.  I can't compare to the E09K as I didn't have them both at the same time. 
  
 Compared to other amps I've owned though, the M-stage does have a bit better dynamics, wider soundstage, and _(it seems like_) more air...


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> 1)  They added a muting relay during power ON and OFF.
> 2)  Changed 0-10-18-20 dB gain switches to a fixed 15dB gain instead.
> 3)  DAC version has a new DAC.  I'd still probably go with a stand-alone-DAC though.
> 4)  Maybe switched the opamp...
> ...


 
  
 +1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the money, I still think I'd go with Audio-GD though. Brand bias and all, lol. The good thing with the MStage is that it has an aux input, something the A-GD stuff lacks up until you hit the Compass 2 and above price ranges. I'd consider getting another Compass 2, but with the warmer dual Wolfson DAC chips, not the super neutral Sabre ES9018 one on my last one, as well as the warmer DIR chip. Since SS amps tend to sound samey, I'd try going with the warmest setup A-GD if I were to get one. Not like it'd happen though. I just really like A-GD's power specs for the money. The last thing to worry about with them is power. At least 2 watts for every planar, and nearly double the mw for 600ohm cans compared to the popular amps.


----------



## Change is Good

I wish I could afford to try these with some beyer velours...
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/SoundMAGIC-HP200-Professional-Full-Size-Over-the-Ear-Headset-Hi-Fi-Heaphones-/271274800975
  
 Amazing price if you ask me... and only on sale for 5 more days...


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> For the money, I still think I'd go with Audio-GD though. Brand bias and all, lol. The good thing with the MStage is that it has an aux input, something the A-GD stuff lacks up until you hit the Compass 2 and above price ranges. I'd consider getting another Compass 2, but with the warmer dual Wolfson DAC chips, not the super neutral Sabre ES9018 one on my last one, as well as the warmer DIR chip. Since SS amps tend to sound samey, I'd try going with the warmest setup A-GD if I were to get one. Not like it'd happen though. I just really like A-GD's power specs for the money. The last thing to worry about with them is power. At least 2 watts for every planar, and nearly double the mw for 600ohm cans compared to the popular amps.


 
 I wonder just how the PCM5102 version does. Yes, it is the cheapest but I don't think that matters.
 Anyone tried that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I doubt many would go the PCM route. I trust the Sabre and Wolfson dacs. I don't know anything on the PCM ones. Probably not much if any noticeable difference for most people, either way.

Change, I don't trust Beyer velours to keep the sound signature well enough. Definitely not the 880/990 velours which would easily ruin the sound of any closed headphone.

Wow, the DT880 pro is going for under $200. Gotta be the best deal I've seen on them in awhile. Has to be the cheapest, most well rounded pair of open cans with some upper range sparkle, though for gaming... not so sure.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, I don't trust Beyer velours to keep the sound signature well enough. Definitely not the 880/990 velours which would easily ruin the sound of any closed headphone.


 
  
 I was told the 770 pads are the best at not altering the sound much...
  
 Plus, this is the open version... and since it has a mild bass emphasis, the pads may tame it down a bit while opening the soundstage more. That would make the HP200 ideal for gaming, IMO, and a great option at that price range.
  
 I really need to try these out...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 770 velours aren't actually all that comfy. Definitely a far cry from the 880/990 velours. I'd take the Alpha pads over the 770 velours, actually. Or better yet, dem 1540 pads.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The 770 velours aren't actually all that comfy. Definitely a far cry from the 880/990 velours. I'd take the Alpha pads over the 770 velours, actually. *Or better yet, dem 1540 pads*.


 
  
 On the closed HP100? definitely...
  
 On the open HP200? nah... it'll kill the soundstage and mids. Maybe the Shure velours?
  
 I don't get why they didn't just make velours for the open HP200... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 It's open, has a 3.5mm jack for the VModa boompro... hmmmm


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nearly done with the Alpha Dog review. If it sounds like I'm gushing, it's because I am, lol. Though it's 100% how I feel about them. Should be up PROBABLY tomorrow.


----------



## Change is Good

I wish Dan knew me well enough to let me try them for a day or two


----------



## theOmni

So I have the following: Titanium HD Sound card and q701 headphones. I'm about to order the Schiit Vali after doing some research. It's seems like it's the only amp in my price range that can slightly warm up the sound from a very analytical headphone. Does anyone see a problem with that or have any other suggestions? I will be placing the order sometime tomorrow.


----------



## AxelCloris

Humble Bundle time. I already have these games. Free to a good home. Requires Steam.
  
Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3
Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 4


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Humble Bundle time. I already have these games. Free to a good home. Requires Steam.
> 
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 4


 

 A bit dangerous putting email address in..look out for a trogan horse! heres some music from soundcloud https://soundcloud.com/guidosloungecafe/guidos-lounge-cafe-broadcast-094#t=1:46 https://soundcloud.com/guidosloungecafe/guidos-lounge-cafe-broadcast-093


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> A bit dangerous putting email address in..look out for a trogan horse!


 
  
 What you don't trust this face?
  

  
 The Humble Bundle is a very legitimate website and I whole heartedly support them. No need to worry about a Trojan with them.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> What you don't trust this face?
> 
> 
> 
> The Humble Bundle is a very legitimate website and I whole heartedly support them. No need to worry about a Trojan with them.


 
This is the game I want to get in a bundle or reduced..don't fancy paying full price for it!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> This is the game I want to get in a bundle or reduced..don't fancy paying full price for it!


 
  
 I got it on Xbox 360 for $6 about a year ago. It was worth every penny.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> I got it on Xbox 360 for $6 about a year ago. It was worth every penny.


 

 That's why I am not paying the full wammy for it!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> That's why I am not paying the full wammy for it!


 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Catherine-Playstation-3/dp/B004P7VGF2/
  
 Full Whammy is $60. 
  
 In Aruba that game would cost between $90-$120. When I was there in April COD 4 was $135.


----------



## AvroArrow

axelcloris said:


> Humble Bundle time. I already have these games. Free to a good home. Requires Steam.


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up, going to buy my own copy now.  I always wanted to try this series out, just not at full price.  
  
 You guys are killing me with all this talk about amps for the Q/K70x.  I was all set to get the Vali soon for my K702.65, but now you have me looking at the Matrix M-Stage and Asgard 2.  Good thing nobody has either amp on sale and amazon.com won't ship the M-Stage to Canada.


----------



## Output

Is the price listed ($180) in the guide for the ma900 correct? just wanted to check because I am interested in them and I cannot find them for that price. I made this account just to ask . thanks


----------



## Evshrug

Output,
The price of the Sony has (surprisingly) been changing wildly... Just look at their price history on camelcamelcamel.com !

I think they're a good headphone at $200 and a great headphone if you find it for less, but I wouldn't pay more than $200. If I wasn't preparing to get a 27" iMac, I'd have a hard time not picking up an MA900, just to have, at $160 or less.


----------



## Output

evshrug said:


> Output,
> The price of the Sony has (surprisingly) been changing wildly... Just look at their price history on camelcamelcamel.com !
> 
> I think they're a good headphone at $200 and a great headphone if you find it for less, but I wouldn't pay more than $200. If I wasn't preparing to get a 27" iMac, I'd have a hard time not picking up an MA900, just to have, at $160 or less.


 
 im having a really hard time deciding on headphones. This will be my first purchase of actual good headphones so I am a novice.  I could spend hours and hours researching something before I purchase it, trying to make the best possible choice. My funds in general are limited so I want to make the most out of my money. Idk even after reading this guide I feel like I'm lost and there are too many choices. Ocd can be annoying. At most I probably wouldn't want to spend more than $150. Just seeing if anyone has any input I guess.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, have you been able to get online with your PS4 today? It keeps telling me the network is down


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> Humble Bundle time. I already have these games. Free to a good home. Requires Steam.
> 
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 4




I got these for funding Cosmic Star heroine, along with Breath of Death VII and the Cthulu game. Lol.

Change, I've been busy writing the review/listening the Alpha Dog, and haven't turned on my PS4 in a few days.


----------



## AxelCloris

I have copies from that campaign as well myself. Just putting them out there for anyone to claim.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I got these for funding Cosmic Star heroine, along with Breath of Death VII and the Cthulu game. Lol.
> 
> Change, I've been busy writing the review/listening the Alpha Dog, and haven't turned on my PS4 in a few days.


 
  
 Ah, well... don't even bother as the network seems to be having issues. Everyone in my area is having issues playing online...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably the sudden influx of people who got a PS4 for Christmas are all now logging in.


----------



## miceblue

mad lust envy said:


> Probably the sudden influx of people who got a PS4 for Christmas are all now logging in.



The Wii U eShop is also having connection issues. I want mah Zelda The Wind Waker HD. >:|


----------



## Change is Good

First, Sony can't meet the demand of consloles... now, they can't meet the demand of online traffic after distributing its Xmas batch... smh

Tighten up, Sony...


----------



## LoveKnight

Even the Steam network was unable to handle the connections to L4D2 which is free in 24h hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm on Remember Me at the moment. Good game and premise. Combat as a bit too Arkham Asylum-y but generic. Still I think it's worth playing. $10 through Dealzon a few days ago.

I also got Lego Marvel. Anyone else have it? I could co-op...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'm on Remember Me at the moment. Good game and premise. Combat as a bit too Arkham Asylum-y but generic. Still I think it's worth playing.


 
  
  
 I heard that game has a nice OST.
  
 If the rest of the game makes up for the mediocre gameplay it's probably still worth playing for me at some point.


----------



## pyed

is there a way to hookup my external mic to my PS4 ? I'm using Astro Mixamp 2013, cuz ps4 mic is over-sensitive


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, shouldn't you be connecting the external mic to the Mixamp? Not sure if the Mixamp 2013 comes with a female y adapter (one for audio, other for the microphone).



that means the mic has to be connected directly to the Mixamp. This can be a hassle, as that means the Mixamp has to be quite close to you... one of the reasons why I'm glad to have the Mixamp 5.8 again.


----------



## Naingolann

chicolom said:


> I heard that game has a nice OST.
> 
> If the rest of the game makes up for the mediocre gameplay it's probably still worth playing for me at some point.




It is very good indeed. Composed by Olivier Deriviere, who also worked on the AC4 Black Flag DLC, Freedom Cry.

Remember me is one of the most underrated game ever. It's too bad, because artistically and graphically this is probably superior to some AAA games and the story is quite interesting. It's a very straightforward game and I honestly had a very fun time with it. Give it a try!


----------



## pyed

mad lust envy said:


> Well, shouldn't you be connecting the external mic to the Mixamp? Not sure if the Mixamp 2013 comes with a female y adapter (one for audio, other for the microphone).
> 
> 
> 
> that means the mic has to be connected directly to the Mixamp. This can be a hassle, as that means the Mixamp has to be quite close to you... one of the reasons why I'm glad to have the Mixamp 5.8 again.


 
 Yes it does, but I didn't expect it to work this way, it's working. thanks
  
 BTW, is there anyway to turn ON the mic in the controller without plugging anything in the controller ? so I'll be able to hear the chat audio through my headphones and speak using the built-in mic ?


----------



## avens

Mad Lust, can you update this guide now with the more 'classic' and new headphones? The MMX 300 for example.
  
 I noticed you post here everyday, but people come here for the OP.
  
  
 Also, I ended up buying the 598 instead of a AKG because I saw it on a store, had the money, gg.


----------



## avens

On a side note, do you know what in ears do 'progamers' use at big events?
  
 As you probably know, there they are forced to use those sennheiser aviators so they can't hear the casters, then use in ears inside them. The same happens in events where players can use whatever circumaural headphone they want, such as those with a booth, in which they wear some of the sponsor (usually razer) but inside them they use another in ear for sound instead of the bigger headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

i know it may look like I'm able to review whatever I want, but truth is, I scrape by on life, and make bad, impulsive decisions on a daily basis. One thing I do know, is that i absolutely can't afford to get headphones just for the sake of reviewing. I get loaners and demos, which do cost me to ship (yes, I have to consider those costs in my budget.) That being said, the classic MMX300 may be due for a review soon, as Nameless has mentioned sending those to me in the near future.

Moving on: 


IT'S HERE! I feel confident that this is probably 99.999999% done, barring corrections of my horrible sentence structuring and grammar, etc.



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> *Alpha Dog*
> ...






If it sounds like most of my recent headphones have been positive, it's because I've been BLESSED to review many worthwhile headphones. It seems the days of testing CRAP headphones like the Turtle Beach Z2 and Ax Pros are behind me. As always, I will always let you guys know what shortcomings every headphone has, no matter how minor. So even though a review is overwhelmingly positive (like the Alpha Dog), I do mention it's things that aren't absolutely perfect either.


----------



## Gxgear

axelcloris said:


> Humble Bundle time. I already have these games. Free to a good home. Requires Steam.
> 
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3
> Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 4


 
 Got the 2nd title, thanks!


----------



## SaLX

MLE - you spoke highly of the closed back Denon D7000's (discontinued) - how would the two compare?


----------



## martin vegas

I have the lcd3's with adl esprit dac/headphone amp..the impact on the lcd3's bass is what sold them to me!


----------



## Change is Good

Memo to Dan:

You should try to manufacture your own alcantara pads, if possible, as an alternate to the Alpha pads...

$$$

Yes, people can eventually just order Shure's own when available... but why let that happen if you can make your own.

$$$


----------



## RageSaul

Hey Mad Lust Envy, it's me again, the one who was asking about the Phillips Fidelio X1s  (Here)
  
 So, I bought them and they are really, really good. Much better bass and a great soundstage. Now I have a few more questions 
  
 1. The 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and adapter that comes with it seems to be ok, but you recommend buying a different one. Will a different increase sound performance due to no adapter?
  
 2. Also, I got the Xonar DGX Soundcard and eventually I got it to work but my driver can't detect it, when I open Asus Audio Center it says 'Can't find any device'. I want to tweak sound settings but without driver access I can't What do I do?
  
 Thanks for your help in the past too


----------



## TomatoTen

If I could get the X1 and the He-400 for the same price, which one should I get? I know that in the world of open headphones, these two cans are pretty bassy. From the reviews I've read, I'd guess that the x1 is more fun/bassy/punchy, and the he400 is more balanced and analytical.
  
 I primarily listen to most modern music--specifically rock, edm, rap, pop country, etc (hip hop, pop, etc). I don't listen to jazz, and I listen to classical from time to time (not that much though). I'd be considerably these headphones exclusively based on music...I'd ofc use these for games too, but I'm not really a competitive gamer/not of much importance ^^
  
 I have the sennheiser amperiors, which I enjoy. 
  
 I plan on pairing the x1/he400 with the sony mdr ma900...does that makes sense? I would have paired it with a hd600/650, but I don't think it makes sense to dump that much money on headphones that won't see much use (based on my genres)...


----------



## AvroArrow

mad lust envy said:


> Absolutely not. The E07k is much too weak. The K702 is a ***** to drive, and needs a proper DESKTOP amp to power.
> 
> Don't bother with the K702 unless you have at LEAST the E9K (and that's not even what I consider a proper pairing). More powerful would be even better. Don't half ass it with the K702.
> 
> Any homework done on the K702 would easily let you know that it's one of the hardest headphones to drive.


 
  
 ++++1
  
 I just picked up an E09K on sale at a local shop while waiting for them to re-stock the Asgard 2.  Wow... I didn't know my K702 Annies could sound like this.  I was driving them off an E17 or Audioengine D1 and thought they sounded pretty good.  Now with the E09K... it's like the bass and mids are filled in with more... bass and mids.  I've only had the amp a couple hours so I've only tried listening to my FLACs so far.  But yeah, if you get the Q/K701/2, don't skimp out on the amp.


----------



## DrunkenTiger

Just checking in regarding the G4ME ZERO and the SoundBlaster Omni, I am in love. I think it just needed some good ol' brain burn in, but I'm hearing a lot more details in my music, clarity is really nice, no distortion anywhere, enough bass for me, doesn't bleed into the mids or anything. Treble is good, and vocals come through clear. Surround works really well, getting used to it, it is more accurate than what I had before. Definitely does my music justice.


----------



## chicolom

ragesaul said:


> 1. The 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and adapter that comes with it seems to be ok, but you recommend buying a different one. Will a different increase sound performance due to no adapter?


 
  
 The adapter isn't really an issue, the issue is just that the stock cable has unusually high resistance.  Changing the cable will only slightly change the sound, but it should give a minor improvement, and it's so cheap to do so why not.
  
  


tomatoten said:


> If I could get the X1 and the He-400 for the same price, which one should I get? I know that in the world of open headphones, these two cans are pretty bassy. From the reviews I've read, I'd guess that the x1 is more fun/bassy/punchy, and the he400 is more balanced and analytical.
> 
> I primarily listen to most modern music--specifically rock, edm, rap, pop country, etc (hip hop, pop, etc). I don't listen to jazz, and I listen to classical from time to time (not that much though). I'd be considerably these headphones exclusively based on music...I'd ofc use these for games too, but I'm not really a competitive gamer/not of much importance ^^
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both are good headphones, and would work with those genres. 
  
 I'd say the X1 is a bit more well-rounded, balanced, and less polarizing though.  The HE400's treble and mids can be a tad polarzing (a bit too much of the former and not quite enough of the latter for many).  So the HE400 is a bit more "V" shaped than the X1.  The X1 gives a flatter graph through the mids and treble.
  
 For bass, the HE400 is going to have more linear bass with better technicalities and nice extension.  The X1 lacks some in speed and texture next to the HE400, but it gives a little hump (near where the mid and low bass meet), which makes the bass sound a bit "bigger" and potentially more fun for things like movies/games.
  
 I prefer the soundstage on the X1, and also the comfort.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ragesaul said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy, it's me again, the one who was asking about the Phillips Fidelio X1s  (Here)
> 
> So, I bought them and they are really, really good. Much better bass and a great soundstage. Now I have a few more questions
> 
> ...


 
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 Try installing the 'Unified Xonar Drivers".
http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## RageSaul

Yes, when I was installing the card I disabled the onboard audio. No drivers worked so I enabled it again and the card worked, but drivers still can't find the device.
  
 If I install that driver again (I already tried it yesterday) it won't screw anything up will it?


----------



## vincent215

@Mad Lust Envy great review about the Alpha Dog! Guys from Audio360 must invite you to their group!
 I really like your writng: clear, direct and feelings for the sound is there too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think you meant Alpha Dog, but many thanks! The most corrected version of the review is on the first page, and should have less crap errors in grammar and the like.


----------



## vincent215

Right, it's the Alpha Dog!
 I read yours over the Alpha Dog thread already.
 Keep up the good work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's the same, just edits. 

The Shure 1840 is up next.


----------



## TomatoTen

Is there any way to ensure that the pads never get dirty on the X1? I was thinking about covering the pads with some kind of cloth, but that would probably alter the SQ right?


----------



## AxelCloris

tomatoten said:


> Is there any way to ensure that the pads never get dirty on the X1? I was thinking about covering the pads with some kind of cloth, but that would probably alter the SQ right?


 
  
 I'm pretty sure Chico has done a sock mod on his X1. That's a great way to keep them clean and it's not supposed to alter the sound.


----------



## robobato

Hi Mad Lust Envy, great guide!
 I have a qustion, I'm pretty much an hardcore gamer, I recently bought a xonar stx and i'm gonna buy my first headphone.
 I noticed that the best headphones for gaming lack in bass, and I would like to use the stx for music and bluray too, with a pair of cans that gives it justice.
 My question is: if I buy something like the Fidelio, or the dt990 (that from your guide are fun but even competitive), and I set a profile for gaming, decreasing the bass and increasing mids and highs, can I obtain that detail whoring of something like ad700? Or I have to buy ad700 for gaming and something else for music and films?
 Do you have any suggestions? Gaming is my priority, so I can plan to buy a second pair of cans in future for everything else.
 Thanks to everyone who will help me =)


----------



## theOmni

avroarrow said:


> ++++1
> 
> I just picked up an E09K on sale at a local shop while waiting for them to re-stock the Asgard 2.  Wow... I didn't know my K702 Annies could sound like this.  I was driving them off an E17 or Audioengine D1 and thought they sounded pretty good.  Now with the E09K... it's like the bass and mids are filled in with more... bass and mids.  I've only had the amp a couple hours so I've only tried listening to my FLACs so far.  But yeah, if you get the Q/K701/2, don't skimp out on the amp.




Yup, lol. I had the e11, but realized it made no difference to the sound of the q701. I let it sit for the next month with only 5-6 hours of use on it. I recently bought the schiit vali, and hopefully it pushes the q701.



robobato said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy, great guide!
> I have a qustion, I'm pretty much an hardcore gamer, I recently bought a xonar stx and i'm gonna buy my first headphone.
> I noticed that the best headphones for gaming lack in bass, and I would like to use the stx for music and bluray too, with a pair of cans that gives it justice.
> My question is: if I buy something like the Fidelio, or the dt990 (that from your guide are fun but even competitive), and I set a profile for gaming, decreasing the bass and increasing mids and highs, can I obtain that detail whoring of something like ad700? Or I have to buy ad700 for gaming and something else for music and films?
> ...




Imo, thwres no such thing as an "all rounder" headphone that's good at movies, music, and gaming. Many recommend to buy different headphones for different purposes (ie one for gaming, one for music/movies). Really big enthusiasts have different headphones per music genres they have! 

Anyways, what I've done is that I own a q701 for gaming and a ultrasone pro 750 for music/movies. And sometimes I'll use the ultrasone for some games like braid or other single player games like Skyrim or starcraft for more immersion or to enjoy the soundtrack more. However, if you still want one all rounder headphone, you can look at the HD558. From my very limited experience, I feel like that headphone is not great for all 3 purposes, but it's certainly not bad, and will do what you want it to do.

Also, this is an aside, but for hardcore gaming, you should probably look into the titanium HD sound card. The Asus std I think is better for music/movies whereas the titanium HD is good for gaming/music and with some equalizing, you can probably also make it work for movies, but I'm just nit-picking.


----------



## RageSaul

MLE, please can you answer my questions?


----------



## AxelCloris

ragesaul said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy, it's me again, the one who was asking about the Phillips Fidelio X1s  (Here)
> 
> So, I bought them and they are really, really good. Much better bass and a great soundstage. Now I have a few more questions
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) If you're using an adapter you'll want something like this in order to not put strain on the jack into which you're plugging. MLE recommends a different cable in order to improve the sound slightly and also not require an adapter.
  
 2) Contact Asus support here.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> It's the same, just edits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yay! Finally. I was considering the SRH1540, but I wanna read up on these too. Thanks :]


----------



## robobato

theomni said:


> Yup, lol. I had the e11, but realized it made no difference to the sound of the q701. I let it sit for the next month with only 5-6 hours of use on it. I recently bought the schiit vali, and hopefully it pushes the q701.
> Imo, thwres no such thing as an "all rounder" headphone that's good at movies, music, and gaming. Many recommend to buy different headphones for different purposes (ie one for gaming, one for music/movies). Really big enthusiasts have different headphones per music genres they have!
> 
> Anyways, what I've done is that I own a q701 for gaming and a ultrasone pro 750 for music/movies. And sometimes I'll use the ultrasone for some games like braid or other single player games like Skyrim or starcraft for more immersion or to enjoy the soundtrack more. However, if you still want one all rounder headphone, you can look at the HD558. From my very limited experience, I feel like that headphone is not great for all 3 purposes, but it's certainly not bad, and will do what you want it to do.
> ...


 
 First of all thank you for the reply,
 I heard good things about the titanium, and maybe i'll try out that soundcard in the future, but also lots of players prefers dolby headphones for gaming and what I like about the stx is the internal amp so I can choose headphones without thinking too much about the impedence.
 I'm pretty sure you're right, probably there's not an all round headphones, but i'm asking cause this guide is based on console, and since i'm a pc players with a soundcard maybe there's a particular headphones that can be set for gaming and for music/movies with good results.
 Aside from that, I really like the q701, they look awesome. The reason I haven't bought them yet is they're sooo much pricey than ad700 and for gaming maybe ad700 are the better choice...dunno


----------



## RainbowPee

Interesting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To those saying there is no such thing as a headphone that does everything, from gaming, music, movies, etc... there are.

Alpha Dog
K702 Anniversary

Two good choices right there.


----------



## Evshrug

^ dude, if you lived within 50 miles, you would've [met me and] heard the K712 by now. And the Omni, though it's still in the shipping box from Amazon (been real busy). I think that the K712 is probably VERY similar to the Annie's, and I believe that they are currently cheaper as well?
Still, I respect you for not recommending headphones you haven't heard. So I'm just adding my data point: K712 also = good [open] all-rounder.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'd like to toss into the ring that the STAX SR-009 are excellent all-rounders as well.


----------



## chicolom

The K702 Anniversary and K712 are interchangeable_ as far as both of them being all-rounders._


----------



## Valuephile

mad lust envy said:


> To those saying there is no such thing as a headphone that does everything, from gaming, music, movies, etc... there are.
> 
> Alpha Dog
> K702 Anniversary
> ...



I own both and agree 100%. Both are relatively inexpensive IMO. At least compared to HD800, SR-009, LCD-XC, and TH-900 flagships which might be just marginally better than the Annie's and Alpha Dogs. If I had to own just one it'd be the Alpha Dogs because they're sealed yet sound very close to open. YMMV.


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> I'd like to toss into the ring that the STAX SR-009 are excellent all-rounders as well.


 
  
 I sure hope so, given the price...
  
 ...but for what it's worth, I also deem the Stax SR-Lambda (1979 Normal bias model) to also be an excellent all-rounder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Fidelio X1 can also be added to the mix, though with a little extra emphasis on bass.

The MA900 can too, though some may prefer more emphasis on treble, and a bass that extends lower than the 50hz that the MA900 basically starts out in (in terms of matching at least everything else.)


----------



## Change is Good

The thing with all rounders is that one will always have you feeling like you want something more. Whether it be more bass, more mids, larger soundstage, etc, ect... something will always be missing. Better to have two headphones that compliment each other towards your needs, if you ask me...

Oh, sorry about *our* wallets...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, the Alpha Dog is almost the perfect all rounder, IMO. What it may lack may be in a subjective preference of tonality. As far as bass, mids, treble, soundstage, positional cues? It has all of it. I haven't heard a headphone so dialed in to make every aspect of sound...sound so good. I swear, if it had pads like the 1540, that'd be pretty much the best headphone to own since it does everything so well.


----------



## Change is Good

The Alpha would have me craving more bass as it has less than the MD... because even when I had that I wanted more. Hence the 1540...

The K712, for its purpose, had me craving less of a mid bass hump... hence the 1840. At first, I was craving more bass when I was looking for an all rounder... but there were too many trade offs (especially when I was gaming and chatting). 

But even with the 1840... I'm left craving more soundstage. So, still looking for that near perfect open headphone. HD800? Yes, when I hit the lotto lol.

I'm happy with the 1540 w/Alpha pads as my closed and 'fun' headphones. That is, until someone let's me demo the TH900.

TH900 + HD800 = every head-fier's dream (or Chico's, at least )


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> The Alpha would have me craving more bass as it has less than the MD... because even when I had that I wanted more.


 
  
 Did you get to play around with the bass adjustment screw?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Did you get to play around with the bass adjustment screw?




From what I've read the screw adjustment has no positive effect, whatsoever, as the enhanced bass isn't well controlled... which would make it redundant to have such a feature, IMO. It's actually the main disappointment Ive read about... along with the actual weight of the headphone. The MD was a bit heavy on my head, sometimes, after extended periods. So I can only imagine the AD. My neck is used to light headphones on my head... like the open AKGs and now the recent Shures.

Again, this is only going from what I've researched... and the last two reviews have confirmed my concerns about the Alpha (for my preference in a closed headphone).


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> The thing with all rounders is that one will always have you feeling like you want something more. Whether it be more bass, more mids, larger soundstage, etc, ect... something will always be missing. Better to have two headphones that compliment each other towards your needs, if you ask me...
> 
> Oh, sorry about *our* wallets...


 

 I personally found it the opposite, a good all-rounder will satisfy and prevent me from listening to all my other headphones. I'm perfectly satisfied with my K612 on my hybrid tube amp, it does everything I want it to do very well. It sounds better on all genres and applications than my other headphones as it sounds the most realistic of any headphone I have owned by a long shot and it's an addicting bugger. I never felt the urge for more even though I know of and have heard better headphones and systems.


----------



## RainbowPee

Sorry to interrupt, but I have some leftover dollars in my pocket and I'm thinking of buying a noice set of headphones for gaming. I took a look at this thread and decided either the AD700X or the PC360 would suite my needs. Of course you can already tell what I'm going to ask next, but which is better? The AD700X has a great soundstage and all that snaz, but is uncomfortable for small headed people like me. While the PC360 has a wunderbar ID and a mic, which I don't have. I don't play FPS all day every day, as I mostly play strategy and RPG games (Skyrim only for the moment) and some Battlefield 4.


----------



## Evshrug

Rainbow,
Was your second post the same as your first?

From what you've said, I'd recommend the PC360 (or the cheaper but essentially the same HD558 with a cheap lapel mic), though I think if you read the guide post and weighed the pros and cons, you would come to the same conclusion (unless you have a higher budget). GL HF.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rainbowpee said:


> Sorry to interrupt, but I have some leftover dollars in my pocket and I'm thinking of buying a noice set of headphones for gaming. I took a look at this thread and decided either the AD700X or the PC360 would suite my needs. Of course you can already tell what I'm going to ask next, but which is better? The AD700X has a great soundstage and all that snaz, but is uncomfortable for small headed people like me. While the PC360 has a wunderbar ID and a mic, which I don't have. I don't play FPS all day every day, as I mostly play strategy and RPG games (Skyrim only for the moment) and some Battlefield 4.


 
 Get the Sennheiser HD558.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> The MD was a bit heavy on my head, sometimes, after extended periods. So I can only imagine the AD. My neck is used to light headphones on my head.


 
  

  
 Growing up I used a machine like this a couple times a week. Many people use it to train their neck for wrestling and such, I used it to train my neck for skiing. This machine is wonderful and it has improved my listening pleasure immensely, as I can wear pretty much any headphone on my head no matter how heavy and still find it comfortable. The Mad Dogs don't feel heavy in the slightest to me, in fact I can completely forget that they're on my head at times.
  
 This is something every headphone aficionado should have in their home.
  
 [disclaimer: this is partially a joke and partially truth]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

We don't take kindly to jokes 'round these parts, sir.


































:mad:


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


>


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I SEE NO EMOTI.


----------



## AxelCloris

I know, it doesn't exist. I had to fake it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So been doing incredibly well in Ghosts with the 1840s.


----------



## Change is Good

That's it...

*starts neck exercises*


----------



## martin vegas

purpleangel said:


> Get the Sennheiser HD558.


 

 Get the pc360..no messing about with clip on mics!


----------



## MQHIFI

Great guide Mad Lust. On Amazon the ad700x is considerably cheaper then the ad700 and I'm not sure which to buy. Anyone here try both of them and know what the difference in sound is. I don't have that much money since I'm in highschool so saving is important to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Essentially the same headphone. Get the AD700x. A trusted friend tested both side by side, and couldn't hear a lick of difference between them. They basically just changed the aesthetics, it seems. The reason the AD700 has jumped up on price is because it's discontinued.

Honestly though, I'd get the HD558 instead or PC360 if you plan on using a mic.


----------



## MQHIFI

Not really going to use mic since I don't like talking much and on PC it's all text anyways. So if I want the best possible sound I should go for the AD700x right? Also will I need a soundcard for my PC if I get these?


----------



## PurpleAngel

mqhifi said:


> Not really going to use mic since I don't like talking much and on PC it's all text anyways. So if I want the best possible sound I should go for the AD700X right? Also will I need a sound card for my PC if I get these?


 
 The AD700X will provide great sound, as long as the sound does not require a lot of bass to sound good.
 The AD700X works fine with out a sound card, but chances are a sound card would improve audio quality over the motherboard's on-board audio.


----------



## robobato

The all round looks good, but they're in a different price range than ad700, from where I live I can afford only the Fidelio ( I really like them, but i'm disappointed with the non removable pads, i've never used cans so I don't know how much this can be important) and the MA900 ( that don't look nice to me, but I need performance and from the guide they're great so I don't care).
 The fact is that gaming is much more important to me, I thought with ad700 I could have the best headphone for gaming and using a funnier headphone for everything else.
 But maybe with MA900 I can have the best of both worlds, how do they compare to ad700 in gaming?, I mean, the difference is noticeble?


----------



## daleb

So, Sennheiser actually DID repair my headphones for me. I also have the Asus Xonar U3! I can now do surround sound! I just need to find a game to test it with...


----------



## zebus

So I'm looking for a bassy, open, headphone that still has solid soundstage for gaming, reading through this has made it a toss up between the 990, x1, and he400. I don't mind buying an amp but I already have a xonar essence stx that is amped. I guess it would be plenty for the x1 and 990,but I'd need more juice for he400.

How would you directly compare them, trying to decide if he400 worth extra costs and equipment. 

Also I'll be wearing them for long periods of time, and I have an extremely large head, my pc360 extended all the way barely fits, so comfort and fit are important.


----------



## chicolom

zebus said:


> So I'm looking for a bassy, open, headphone that still has solid soundstage for gaming, reading through this has made it a toss up between the 990, x1, and he400. I don't mind buying an amp but I already have a xonar essence stx that is amped. I guess it would be plenty for the x1 and 990,but I'd need more juice for he400.
> 
> How would you directly compare them, trying to decide if he400 worth extra costs and equipment.
> 
> Also I'll be wearing them for long periods of time, and I have an extremely large head, my pc360 extended all the way barely fits, so comfort and fit are important.


 
  
 I'd say the X1, but if you have an "extremely large head" you might need to bend the headband to make it fit.


----------



## Change is Good

Okay... after extensive neck exercising (and some PEDs), I think I am now ready for the Alpha Dog...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Okay... after extensive neck exercising (and some PEDs), I think I am now ready for the Alpha Dog...


 
  
 Do you even lift?


----------



## Change is Good

Well... this wouldn't be an issue if I did, now, would it? LOL


----------



## Change is Good

Just out of curiosity, I inquired with Emusic Enterprise and their K702s in Amazon's warehouse are the 2013 models that are made in China (assuming those have the flat headband).
  
 Here is their reply from when I emailed them:
  


> Our K702s were assembled in 2013. I believe the picture was provided by manufacturer. We can upload picture of the item but may we ask if there is any difference? All K 702s are now made in China and K712s are made in Austria.


----------



## zebus

chicolom said:


> I'd say the X1, but if you have an "extremely large head" you might need to bend the headband to make it fit.


 
 Yea.. too bad I don't have a place around here to go try them on, kinda worried I'm going to get something that doesn't adjust far enough out, or puts a vice grip on my head lol


----------



## skyforger

zebus said:


> Yea.. too bad I don't have a place around here to go try them on, kinda worried I'm going to get something that doesn't adjust far enough out, or puts a vice grip on my head lol


 
  
 Then avoid the dt770 80ohms then, just after a week I feel like I have blisters on my jaw bones from the insane clamp of these. I am glad they are going back for an open set.


----------



## Santaclart

zebus said:


> Yea.. too bad I don't have a place around here to go try them on, kinda worried I'm going to get something that doesn't adjust far enough out, or puts a vice grip on my head lol


 
 I got the X1 today and have a large head, no issues so far. Had the Beyer mmx 300 and that was fine, 990 pro was a bit clampy but stretched them over a box over night, was fine then.


----------



## martin vegas

santaclart said:


> I got the X1 today and have a large head, no issues so far. Had the Beyer mmx 300 and that was fine, 990 pro was a bit clampy but stretched them over a box over night, was fine then.


 

 Why did you get rid of the beyer mmx 300?


----------



## Santaclart

martin vegas said:


> Why did you get rid of the beyer mmx 300?


 
 They were my first pair of closed cans I used alot (gaming) and it got out of hand not hearing my 6month old or the wife, so they had to go.


----------



## ezone2kil

Hi guys,
 I'm building myself a gaming rig and torn between these  options:
 K702 Annie, Q701, DT990, Fidelio L2 (Cant find the X1 here), or the D5000.
  
 The pc will have a Sound Blaster ZXR capable of 600 ohm amp.
  
 I mostly play Battlefield 4 and listen to old songs from Guns n Roses among others.
  
 Would really like to hear some thoughts from experts here as I'm really a noob audiophile with only a GR07 before this


----------



## 1llest

I currently use PC360 for gaming and was wondering how good are the X1's compared to the PC360? I know they have a different price point but was curious. 

My PC360 will be dedicated gaming and I intend to use the X1 more for music with a little bit of gaming.

and also, how is the X1 compare to K702 Annies? Thanks.


----------



## Santaclart

1llest said:


> I currently use PC360 for gaming and was wondering how good are the X1's compared to the PC360? I know they have a different price point but was curious.
> 
> My PC360 will be dedicated gaming and I intend to use the X1 more for music with a little bit of gaming.
> 
> and also, how is the X1 compare to K702 Annies? Thanks.


 
 I used HD598 for years and would say the X1 are 598 + 30% but nothing overwhelming. Honestly blown away by these. New favourite can. Seem to pair with Dolby HP really sweet too.


----------



## conquerator2

For anyone who is kinda struggling between the Sony MDR-MA900 and the Philips Fidelio X1, I've decided to compare them a bit.
Though as MLE stated, they are apples and oranges.(and I generally speaking I agree with what MLE said, so a lot of things will overlap)
The important thing is that they are both amazing headphones for the price with different tonalities that share some similarities. So, whichever you get, you'd most likely be happy with it.
Nonetheless, I'll try. I'd like to add my 0.02 anyways.
To put things into perspective, I hate V shaped signatures, or purely bass centric headphones. I do like bass, but I also need my mids and highs!
 
Ok, Let's get to it.
 
Bass:
 
MA900 - Tight bass with some warmness to it and enough punch. Not really wonky or bloated. It's the kind of bass I like as it "knows" when to hit hard and when not. Still it is not that fully controlled audiophile bass only and the headphone certainly can provide enough of it to fill in every genre. It is adequate with all kinds of music.
I give it a 9/10, as for me it is warm enough but still tight as well to not intrude into the mids or other frequencies. There is just enough for me.
 :]
 
X1- Now, I'd not call this headphone a bass-head can.per se. The bass is warmer than the MA's bass, but it is rather borderline bass-head than pure bass-head. I've heard a bunch of bass-heavy cans [Ultrasone Pro900, Audio Technica ATH-1000X. Sony XB series. Any Beats, etc.] but while these had a bad impact on the midrange, the X1 keeps it to a minimal. [Undeniably thanks to its spatial soundstage as well, but more about that later]. It can be tight and again adapts well to the genres you listen to, so no need to fear there. It always adds a bit more than the MA's obviously but I don't think I'd be enough to satisfy someone who wants just pure bass. Nevertheless, there is more bass and sub-bass, while still keeping it all linear to the mids as much as possible.
I give the bass a 9/10 as well, as even though it is not as tight and precise as it could be, it is still well within boundaries to not be considered loose and boomy.It is a smidge slower than the 900's bass but still fast enough. Very nice bass.
 
Midrange:
 
MA900 - This is where the headphone undeniably shines the most.Vocals & most instruments are presented clearly and vividly. There is a bit more midrange bloom as well, and due to their forwardness, the presentation is more airy than that of the X1's. Midrange & bass are thereby very nicely connected together. I feel the need to stress that thanks to more air, the soundstage might feel a bit bigger than that of the X1's, but I don't really think it is as I still feel that the X1 does have slightly superior imaging and slightly inferior instrument separation. More on that later.
The midrange gets a 9.5/10. I really like my midrange, probably the most of all the frequencies so a good bass to midrange transition is very important for me.
 
X1 - I've read comments saying the midrange is recessed. Now, I can't really agree with that. No, it is not as forward & exciting as the MA's nidrange but it is still very linear and surprisingly clear when one consider the relative increase in bass. There is less air in the mids [but more air in the bass & highs] but this seems like an intentional step to me rather than a negative side-effect of the low frequencies. Less air makes for a slightly better imaging. Still, I'd prefer a bit more air and the a pinch more forward mids [which is possible].
Still an 8.5/10. While they are not the star of the show [like the MA's] they do prove that a relatively bassy headphone can still have linear and clear midrange. Well done Philips! Other audiophile brands could definitely learn a lesson off you!
 
Highs
 
MA900 - Now, should the MA's manage here as well as it did in the bass & mids section, they'd be a perfect headphone, right? Unfortunately, they don't. There is a steep roll-off above 11khz [I think, don't quote me here], which does cause some instruments to lose their breath a bit too soon and feel a touch too smooth. Cymbals being the most affected. Still, the airy presentation detracts a bit from the fact. The good thing is that there is absolutely no sibilance at all and sibilants ["S" and "P"] can even feel a bit soft [!] sometimes. Still this is a plus in my book.
The score for high range is an 8/10. While the highs are smooth and unoffensive, they just roll-off way too losing or masking some details in the highs and causing some instruments to feel soft, taking away some transparency.
It is certainly not the most impressive reproduction I've heard [this spot being taken by the HE-6, while it might seem a bit too bright, after a month I got used to it and learnt to love the highs & vocal extension especially].
I still rank them high enough here and IMO the bass & mids more than make up for the treble.
 
X1 - We have the same situation here as we had with the mids, just reversed. The X1 does drop the highs off a bit too soon for my taste, but it is still late enough to not leave as many negative side effects as the MA's did. The cymbals have more bite and so do the electric guitars. The instruments in the highs have longer decay thereby, which is definitely a plus. I like long decays, just not in the bass. The sibilants gain a bit of weight, but it is the right amount for me. Not too smooth yet not too much to cause sibilance.
In direct comparison with the MA900, it is definitely the technically better high range. It still leaves a bit to be desired, but it is a point a point better.
A 9 from me then.
 
Imaging & soundstaging is neck and neck IMO.
The imaging goes to the X1s, while the instrument separation goes to the MAs. Soundstage width and depth is similar. Maybe the MAs is slightly wider, while the X1s is a bit more rounded. Both well above average and I really gotta say both are exceptional at these. 
 
Build quality goes to the X1. I think it is both a great made and gorgeously looking headphone. It feels very solid in the hands. The memory velour pads are very comfortable and the only shame is really just the fact that they are not removable, [owww :/]. Otherwise they are very soft and plush and are not the worst in terms of lint attracting [HiFiMAN is the king here...].
Removable cable is great too! [The stock cable is pretty, but is not ideal sonic wise. Any 1/8/3.5mm cable willl fit though!]
A 9.
 
The MA's, while comprised of  magnesium, they feel a bit wonky in the hand [though they are quite a bit lighter as well].
Anyway I feel like they are still very well build and am confident that if treated similarly [that means no table falls and throws] they can last as long as the X1s for a Thailand made product, they are fairly impressive.
The cloth earpads are non-removable too, but it is less of an issue here cause they are, well... cloth.
The headband pading and earpad padding could have been a bit more dense though.
My ears still fit both, which is an admirable effort [ They are not gargantuan, but I've had problems fitting many stock pads. Since these are not replaceable, I applaud Sony & Phillips for getting it right.]
Cable is not replaceable either, but even though it is a bit thin. It is very well  made & doesn't tangle, so good.
An 8+.
 
In terms of their respective price ranges, they are both a very good deal. The MA's at $200 slightly more perhaps, but the slightly more expensive [$300] X1 definitely makes up to it in build quality and some may definitely prefer their sound qualities.
I admire them both for what they are. They sound really, really well for their price and I'd really hate to choose only one.
 
Currently I use the X1 for gaming and movies and the MA for anything else [well, music]. But it's 1/2 and 1/2 in terms of usability and BOTH are great all-rounders IMO, I just find it more convenient [The X1s being a bit more comfy for me and has deeper bass, + mids are not as important in games/movies, though they are still good, MAs for those walks in the nature and listening to music at home due to their more balanced character, minus the bi too smooth [for my taste] highs.]
 
Conclusion - If you like balanced sound and smooth highs and are on a budget, get the Sonys, if you want a bit more bass, a smidge less midrange and can stretch there, get the Philllipses.
 

 
 

 
Ok, that should do. Should anyone have any further questions [or complaints ] ask me [or MLE, though I am just trying to help here to give him a bit of a break so that he doesn't have to write this later on ]
 
Hope this helps somewhat! :]
Cheers!


----------



## chicolom

Nice comparison/impressions ^.


----------



## chicolom

If anyone wants the latest *Splinter Cell: Blacklist* game for PC (download code), make me an offer for it.  It came with a GPU I bought.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FREE


----------



## chicolom

Tempting...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> FREE


 
  
 Free plus one, Bob.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

WHY YOU GOTTA OUTBID ME FOR


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> WHY YOU GOTTA OUTBID ME FOR


 
  
 I never said what "one" was. Free plus one free = free.


----------



## daleb

It is at this moment that I've realized that my closed back headphones won't cut it... *my wallet can't handle this*


----------



## SaLX

From a technical standpoint chicolom (and I've soaked up a lot of info on this): you've _never ever _said one outclasses the other - basically is the K712 pro/K702 Annie in a _completely_ different league from the X1, or are the AKG's just _slightly_ better in the mids.... and that's it? If I put one or the other on my grandmother ,which one would she tell you is the best.,.. then die happy?
  
 I may just have to spend considerably more for the "holy grail" of headphones, or something..........


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> From a technical standpoint chicolom (and I've soaked up a lot of info on this): you've _never ever _said one outclasses the other -* basically is the K712 pro/K702 Annie in a completely different league from the X1, or are the AKG's just slightly better in the mids.... and that's it?* If I put one or the other on my grandmother ,which one would she tell you is the best.,.. then die happy?
> 
> I may just have to spend considerably more for the "holy grail" of headphones, or something..........


 
  
  
_"As for the inevitable question of "which headphone is better" between the Anniversary and X1?  I really don't think you can generalize that one is "better" than the other, because they both go in two different directions (I feel that statement holds true for many other headphones as well)."_
  
 On a technical level, the K712 is a slightly better headphone, meaning it has little extra bit of detail and refinement.  It's not a huge difference though.  It is NOT in a "completely different league".  In terms of signatures it's going to be a draw based on personal preference since one is a little more balanced and the other is a little more fun.
  
 If you're looking for a _complete upgrade _from the X1 though, I don't really think the K712 is it.   The K712 is basically more of a sidegrade than an true upgrade, since they're both _very nearly_ on the same level in many respects.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> _"As for the inevitable question of "which headphone is better" between the Anniversary and X1?  I really don't think you can generalize that one is "better" than the other, because they both go in two different directions (I feel that statement holds true for many other headphones as well)."_
> 
> On a technical level, the K712 is a slightly better headphone, meaning it has little extra bit of detail and refinement.  It's not a huge difference though.  It is NOT in a "completely different league".  In terms of signatures it's going to be a draw based on personal preference since one is a little more balanced and the other is a little more fun.
> 
> If you're looking for a _complete upgrade _from the X1 though, I don't really think the K712 is it.   The K712 is basically more of a sidegrade than an true upgrade, since they're both _very nearly_ on the same level in many respects.


 
  
 The two are rather great compliments to each other if you ask me.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> The two are rather great compliments to each other if you ask me.


 
  
 Yep.
  
  
 From the "Conclusion" in my review:
  
_"I can't fault the Anniversaries for being more balanced and I can't fault the X1s for being more fun.  That's why they compliment each other....and that's why I've kept them both._"


----------



## chicolom

Alan Wake for PC is _heavily _discounted on Steam for anyone who hasn't played it. 
 http://store.steampowered.com/sub/15407/
  
 Great price for a great game.


----------



## Qupie

Hi Envy and entourage, 
  
 So I am one step further in my sound-whoring quest ^_^. Bought a K612 and it is an awesome headphone. Not really allot of experience with headphones in general, so I have no idea if it is actually better than x or y, but I am very pleased with it. Comfort is great, and sound-whoring works better than my Igrado's did. Music sounds allot better via my receiver compared to HTC phone / computer though, so it is not recommended for users without an amp.

 Now I have a question left, what Dolby headphones settings are you using? There is DH 1, 2 and 3.... I have been using 1 until now (just figured out there were more...). There is little information, especially regarding gaming (see (not really interesting) links below), and once again it seems to be a case of personal preference. After doing some reading I think 1 or 2 will be the best for me, but the differences sound marginal to me, what do you guys use? I am sitting roughly 3 meters from my TV if that really matters (6x4 room, i'm sitting right in the middle). 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/74301/which-one-is-better-dh1-or-dh2
http://www.head-fi.org/t/51032/dolby-headphone-dh1-dh2-dh3
http://www.overclock.net/t/214536/dolby-dh1-dh2-dh3-and-regular-cans

 Thanks again for the help


----------



## chicolom

Most people use DH2, and DH2 is the default on devices that don't let you choose.  DH2 usually gives the best soundstage size / to amount of reverb ratio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, DH2 is the common setting, and what most external devices use. Don't bother with DH3, and if you feel like DH2 sounds too processex, try DH1. Dh1 is the most technical, but also with the least soundstage and depth.


----------



## davisman

Portal 2, Alan wake, and LA Noire for $17. God I love holiday sales. I cant wait to try Alan Wake, everybody has said how great of a game it is.


----------



## jingles

by the way Envy can you comment on how the HD 598s are for your taste (dnb, liquid, chill, trap, trance) ? we listen to mostly the same genres and I was gonna pick those up. i heard theyre not very bass-y and i have the XB500's now and was wondering how severe the change will be


----------



## conquerator2

davisman said:


> Portal 2, Alan wake, and LA Noire for $17. God I love holiday sales. I cant wait to try Alan Wake, everybody has said how great of a game it is.


 
 Alan Wake is great. I think you are gonna like it. Felt very original the first time I played and the atmosphere is very eerie


----------



## conquerator2

I was wondering how does the MA900 compares to the AKGs? [Q701, K612, K712, K702 Annies - either of these or any other model.. not that there are ].
 How different is the signature? I was thinking to get the taste of an AKG sound...
 I'd appreciate any help, as I am currently thinking about getting a basic Audio GD DAC/amp [11.32, 15.32 or Compass] and an AKG to back it up, but I am not sure if there'd be appreciable difference in any direction.
 Thanks!


----------



## 1llest

Has anyone used the V Moda BoomPro Microphone? http://v-moda.com/boompro-microphone/
  
 I wonder if this is same quality as the Antlion Modmic


----------



## AxelCloris

Search is your friend. I've talked a out it here in the forum. It's a very nice mic. It is easier to use than the modmic if your headphones have a detachable cable.


----------



## 1llest

axelcloris said:


> Search is your friend. I've talked a out it here in the forum. It's a very nice mic. It is easier to use than the modmic if your headphones have a detachable cable.


 
  
 I think im gonna pick one up along with the Fidelio X1


----------



## Naingolann

Happy new year everyone!



So, his Highness Kojima, God to us all, twitted this picture. Does anyone know what headphone is that? Look like some Focal, but I'm most likely wrong.


----------



## martin vegas

Happy new year!


----------



## miceblue

Sony Z1000?



What Metal Gear Solid game is that? I still have yet to play one...but it's always fun to watch someone play it. I still want to play MGS4: Guns of the Patriots.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jingles said:


> by the way Envy can you comment on how the HD 598s are for your taste (dnb, liquid, chill, trap, trance) ? we listen to mostly the same genres and I was gonna pick those up. i heard theyre not very bass-y and i have the XB500's now and was wondering how severe the change will be




The HD598 is the polar opposite of the XB500. I don't think, hell, I know it won't satisfy you in the bass. The 598 is mid centric. I don't personally like it for music in any shape. 

Everything will be a huge difference from the XB500. You're gonna be giving up a looooot of bass for anything else. Not that the XB500 is a good headphone for me. I personally owned it and sold it immediately after. So don't expect any similarity on my guide. You might do best with a DT770 Pro 80 as far as what's in the HD598 price range.


----------



## jingles

hmm damn alright. i'm actually not a huge fan of the xb500s either despite putting at least 2000 hours of solely music listening into them so far because the bass seems to drown everything else out so much so that i can't focus on lyricism in hip hop as well anymore (i listen to hip hop primarily) but they are definitely fun. i was thinking the 558 foam modded/598 would be like an intermediate so i could still get some bass/feel it but properly listen to my library.
  
 the dt770 are a little out of my range and i dont have a Xonar anymore for virtual surround anyway so ill have to onboard stereo them but regardless i dont want the same competitive shortcomings the xb500 (almost no sense of position/staging etc) are giving me. i feel like the bloated bass would cause these same problems
 it also seems like id have to get to buying two completely different headphones instead of looking for the perfect compromise (which i thought the Senns would be lol)


----------



## SaLX

> On a technical level, the K712 is a slightly better headphone, meaning it has little extra bit of detail and refinement.  It's not a huge difference though.  It is NOT in a "completely different league".  In terms of signatures it's going to be a draw based on personal preference since one is a little more balanced and the other is a little more fun.
> 
> If you're looking for a _complete upgrade _from the X1 though, I don't really think the K712 is it.   The K712 is basically more of a sidegrade than an true upgrade, since they're both _very nearly_ on the same level in many respects.


 
  
 TY Chico.
  
 The X1 doesn't seem to do it for me - it doesn't offend in any way; it's a great fun experience and is great in games. It's annoyingly a complete toe tapper with music, but from my point of view it unforgivably just seems to fold the notes into eachother. In Head-Fi terms it's muddy. I really really do require something more detailed. Much more. You mention the T90.. expensive. Something I'll look into though.
  
 I'll be getting a Compass 2/Sabre soon (_uber great deal _- one that I could not ever ever pass up... like ever)... but that's not going to raise the X1's game too much. From now on I'm looking for treble sparkle (often seen as a drawback.. or even fatiguing).. .each to their own. 990's maybe
  
 $600 fat ones is the limit.. .................. The X1's stay though.. I love them. And Happy New Year to you all.


----------



## Naingolann

miceblue said:


> Sony Z1000?
> 
> 
> 
> What Metal Gear Solid game is that? I still have yet to play one...but it's always fun to watch someone play it. I still want to play MGS4: Guns of the Patriots.




!!!

I think that's the one! Thanks. 

And that's the next Metal Gear Solid game, Ground Zeroes. Or better, the prologue to the next MGS, which will be called The Phantom Pain. You've still got about three or four months before the next game comes out, so go play MGS4!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Happy new years guys. So I got my KSC35 and Sportapro back from Koss. Happy indeed.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Happy new years guys. So I got my KSC35 and Sportapro back from Koss. Happy indeed.


 
  
 Same to you!
  
 Nice to hear you got them nice and sound. What's the status of your DS4?


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, it seems I got a new DS4. I've had it for about a week.


----------



## martin vegas

jingles said:


> hmm damn alright. i'm actually not a huge fan of the xb500s either despite putting at least 2000 hours of solely music listening into them so far because the bass seems to drown everything else out so much so that i can't focus on lyricism in hip hop as well anymore (i listen to hip hop primarily) but they are definitely fun. i was thinking the 558 foam modded/598 would be like an intermediate so i could still get some bass/feel it but properly listen to my library.
> 
> the dt770 are a little out of my range and i dont have a Xonar anymore for virtual surround anyway so ill have to onboard stereo them but regardless i dont want the same competitive shortcomings the xb500 (almost no sense of position/staging etc) are giving me. i feel like the bloated bass would cause these same problems
> it also seems like id have to get to buying two completely different headphones instead of looking for the perfect compromise (which i thought the Senns would be lol)


 

 You can get other sennheiser headphones like the hd439 that have a bit of everything..good for all music and gaming!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Happy New Year Everywaaaaaaaaaan
  
 Finally everything's over and it's headphone time again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  


Spoiler: :Q



as in...yeah, haven't touched the K812 or any headphone since more than 10 days ago.


----------



## davisman

conquerator2 said:


> Alan Wake is great. I think you are gonna like it. Felt very original the first time I played and the atmosphere is very eerie


 
  
 It is a great game. Im starting episode 3 now, and it is fun. Good headphones really help in this game because you can hear Taken coming for you. I actually like it alot with the Audeze LCD2's because of how good they are with rear positional cues.


----------



## Output

from a purely value standpoint, what is the best in the akg x7xx line?


----------



## conquerator2

output said:


> from a purely value standpoint, what is the best in the akg x7xx line?




+1


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Great thread, just what i was looking for. MLE, can you tell me if there is any difference between the sony dir800c unit vs the 2013 mixamp? i got an xbox one to go upstairs and didnt want to move my setup with the xbox360, so i bought the mixamp to pair with the xbox one. Im currently using Sony F1's plugged in to either the dir800c or mixamp and came across your thread in search of a new gaming can that might out perform the F1's. my budget is $300. my use is gaming 90%. only other headphone ive ever tried was the ad700 amd hated the comfort. thinking sony ma900, but if theres a better one in my price range im all in. Suggestions? thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

output said:


> from a purely value standpoint, what is the best in the akg x7xx line?




IMO, if you can stand the bumps on the headband, the Q701 for $199 (brand new) is the best bang for buck of the x7xx line. If the bumps are an issue, you may want to wait until the newer K702s (no bumps) drop to a similar price.


----------



## raxx

Question about the He-4 vs He-400. I was wondering why you gave the He-400 a higher score in the "fun factor" category over the He-4. I am looking
 to buy new headphones and the He-4 is starting to look good right now. I was looking at the He-400 first, but I don't want to deal with the reported
 sibilance and the mods that people talk about. Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

From what I've read... I hope you have a power plant to drive the HE-4.

But seriously, the single digit HiFimans need serious amping if one were to go that route.


----------



## raxx

change is good said:


> From what I've read... I hope you have a power plant to drive the HE-4.
> 
> But seriously, the single digit HiFimans need serious amping if one were to go that route.


 
 Yea..I am just getting that impression reading the He-4 feedback on another thread. Crap! Do you have any experience with the He-400 or He-500? Thanks for the help.


----------



## Change is Good

raxx said:


> Yea..I am just getting that impression reading the He-4 feedback on another thread. Crap! *Do you have any experience with the He-400 or He-500?* Thanks for the help.


 
  
 No... sorry... but others, here, have...


----------



## raxx

change is good said:


> No... sorry... but others, here, have...


 
 I see in your sig that you like the Shure brand. How would you describe their sound?


----------



## Change is Good

MLE is currently reviewing my 1840 so stay tuned...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The reason the HE-400 has more score on fun is because they have a fuller sound, with a deeper sounding bass than the HE-4. The HE-4 is faster, and not as thick bodied. It's colder, and more dry sounding. I've mentioned this on the guide, so...yeah.

Anyways, don't bother with the HE-4 unless you have a power plant. Seriously, just don't bother if you're not using some truly powerful amplification. Nothing less than something like the Lyr. more would be better. That's how much they scale. The HE-400 sounds good off practically anything.


----------



## Change is Good

If he's going for Hifiman then I think the HE-500 would be his best bet. Someone really needs to loan them to you for review... one day.


----------



## raxx

mad lust envy said:


> The reason the HE-400 has more score on fun is because they have a fuller sound, with a deeper sounding bass than the HE-4. The HE-4 is faster, and not as thick bodied. It's colder, and more dry sounding. I've mentioned this on the guide, so...yeah.
> 
> Anyways, don't bother with the HE-4 unless you have a power plant. Seriously, just don't bother if you're not using some truly powerful amplification. Nothing less than something like the Lyr. more would be better. That's how much they scale. The HE-400 sounds good off practically anything.


 
 Ok thanks. I listen to rock and electronic, but some my favorite bands have female vocals. Someone told me the He-4 was best for rock, but I now see they need some serious horsepower to drive.


----------



## kenshinhimura

raxx said:


> Ok thanks. I listen to rock and electronic, but some my favorite bands have female vocals. Someone told me the He-4 was best for rock, but I now see they need some serious horsepower to drive.




you can check Craigslist for some vintage receivers in your area. look at the vintage receiver thread for some options. might find something for under $125 that can power them just fine.


----------



## dakanao

What's the best headphone for gaming and dubstep/vocal rap/hiphop, with great comfort aswell? €200,- budget
  
 I'm considering the X1, but I think the vocals might be a little too recessed for my taste.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With that budget, the X1 is your best bet, and the vocals aren't recessed. The bass is emphasized, but the vocals are more or less in line with everything else. The treble has a slight peak above it, but that's it.

Anyways, if those are your genres, your ideal headphones won't have amazing vocals anyways, unless you spend a lot more for some planar that does both bass and mids well (LCD2, Mad Dogs, HE400)


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> With that budget, the X1 is your best bet, and the vocals aren't recessed. The bass is emphasized, but the vocals are more or less in line with everything else. The treble has a slight peak above it, but that's it.
> 
> Anyways, if those are your genres, your ideal headphones won't have amazing vocals anyways, unless you spend a lot more for some planar that does both bass and mids well (LCD2, Mad Dogs, HE400)


 
 What's the best amp/DAC option for them?


----------



## avens

What do you think of the Superlux 668b?
  
 (the OP really needs more 'classic' reviews . The mmx300 is due)


----------



## chicolom

2011 Mixamp + A30 Headset, for *$109.99 shipped.*
  
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
  
 That's a pretty good deal.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I need a headset that will work on both the Xbox One and PS4. I really don't want headphones since I would have to use my DSS and a buy a separate mic. Can anyone recommend one a pair please? I'm looking into the new Polk Audio Xbox One headset that's coming out as well as the Turtle Beach XO Seven. I would prefer a wireless headset as well. Thank you guys!


----------



## conquerator2

Can anyone chime in on AKG K612 Pro vs new K701 (which is basically identical to the new K702 and Q701 SQ wise).
It will be my 1st AKG headphone,driven by the Fiio E09k and later adding the E17 as DAC (or would one rather jump for a cheap A-gd combo?)
Music and gaming.
My only worry is as I have 0 experience with the AKG that one of them could overlap with my X1/MA900.
Any help/advice kindly appreciated. 
Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

conquerator2 said:


> Can anyone chime in on AKG K612 Pro vs new K701 (which is basically identical to the new K702 and Q701 SQ wise).
> It will be my 1st AKG headphone,driven by the Fiio E09k and later adding the E17 as DAC (or would one rather jump for a cheap A-gd combo?)
> Music and gaming.
> My only worry is as I have 0 experience with the AKG that one of them could overlap with my X1/MA900.
> ...


 
 I would "guess" if you already have the Sony MDR-MA900 headphones, you really have no need to buy one of the other headphones listed in your post.


----------



## Change is Good

purpleangel said:


> I would "guess" if you already have the Sony MDR-MA900 headphones, you really have no need to buy one of the other headphones listed in your post.




If he were to want to upgrade rather than just have another headphone, the AKGs would be a great compliment to the X1... but will overlap with the MA900.

My suggestion would be to sell the MA900 (if willing to) and upgrade to the K712/K702 Ann while keeping the X1.


----------



## Robibennobi

Amazing post by the way, very informative and detailed. Helps people around the world, good work!
  
 Thanks Robi


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Can anyone chime in on AKG K612 Pro vs new K701 (which is basically identical to the new K702 and Q701 SQ wise).
> It will be my 1st AKG headphone,driven by the Fiio E09k and later adding the E17 as DAC (or would one rather jump for a cheap A-gd combo?)
> Music and gaming.
> My only worry is as I have 0 experience with the AKG that one of them could overlap with my X1/MA900.
> ...


 

 The K612 is more linear and organic sounding, has more and deeper bass, and is more relaxed in the highs than the new K701, it's not as wide in the soundstage and slightly less detailed, it's also harder to drive than the K701, but overall they sound quite similar. I've heard the E09K isn't the best match for the AKGs. Regarding the K612, I would personally go hybrid/tubes in terms of amps, both are also picky in terms of DACs as well.
  
 I found the K612 and MA900 quite different, both share some similar qualities but the sound signature is quite different.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> 2011 Mixamp + A30 Headset, for *$109.99 shipped.*
> 
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
> 
> That's a pretty good deal.




God... OH! the A30s may be something I need/want.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> If he were to want to upgrade rather than just have another headphone, the AKGs would be a great compliment to the X1... but will overlap with the MA900.
> 
> My suggestion would be to sell the MA900 (if willing to) and upgrade to the K712/K702 Ann while keeping the X1.


 
 For now, the MA900 is special enough to keep and so is the X1...
 Though to put things into perspective - in my situation, the Q701 can be had for just over 300 USD, the 612 Pros are 200 USD, the K701 is 250 USD, K702 goes for over 350 USD and last, but not least, the K712 pro is 600 USD...
 I'd like to not break the bank obviously, but the K712 are out as a first AKG purchase.
 The 612 Pro seem like a very good deal as it basically is the Amazon price, 8 bump K701 is close behind... and quite a bit cheaper than the Qs [especially if the newer one is identical... I also like the looks better and non-removable cables shouldn't be a problem.]
  
 So its a toss-up between the newer K701s and the 612s.
 Any amps and DACs better for them than the E09k around a similar price? [ideally, a DAC+amp around 300USD, or an amp around 200...]
  
 Any thoughts, Change is Good, others?
 Thanks, appreciate it.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> For now, the MA900 is special enough to keep and so is the X1...
> Though to put things into perspective - in my situation, the Q701 can be had for just over 300 USD, the 612 Pros are 200 USD, the K701 is 250 USD, K702 goes for over 350 USD and last, but not least, the K712 pro is 600 USD...
> I'd like to not break the bank obviously, but the K712 are out as a first AKG purchase.
> The 612 Pro seem like a very good deal as it basically is the Amazon price, 8 bump K701 is close behind... and quite a bit cheaper than the Qs [especially if the newer one is identical... I also like the looks better and non-removable cables shouldn't be a problem.]
> ...




Hmm, I see. Well, if you can withstand the bumps I'd say the Q701 would be your best bet... as it doesn't overlap as much with the MA900 as the K712 would. I have no experience with the 612 so can't comment, there.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Hmm, I see. Well, if you can withstand the bumps I'd say the Q701 would be your best bet. I have no experience with the 612 so can't comnent, there.


 
 I was thinking the K701 rather than the Q701... many sources indicate that the newer Ks [8 bumps 701 and 702] sound the same as the Qs.
 And 50 bucks cheaper is 50 bucks.
 There is an authorized dealer who offers both the Q701 and K702 for the same price [that is roughly 300] while the K701 is 250 and K612 is 200...
 But I am just repeating myself 
 Regardless, if K701=Q701, then =>K701>Q701 
  
 If not then I dunno... Its a again a toss-up...
  
 I wish someone could clarify the new vs old Ks once and for all :]


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> I was thinking the K701 rather than the Q701... many sources indicate that the newer Ks [8 bumps 701 and 702] sound the same as the Qs.
> And 50 bucks cheaper is 50 bucks.
> There is an authorized dealer who offers both the Q701 and K702 for the same price [that is roughly 300] while the K701 is 250 and K612 is 200...
> But I am just repeating myself
> ...


 
  
 Yea, I guess you're right. I only suggested the Q because of the detachable cable (my preference). I can't comment on the difference in sound as I never heard the original K701.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Yea, I guess you're right. I only suggested the Q because of the detachable cable (my preference). I can't comment on the difference in sound as I never heard the original K701.




Which AKGs have you heard?


----------



## NamelessPFG

chicolom said:


> 2011 Mixamp + A30 Headset, for *$109.99 shipped.*
> 
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
> 
> That's a pretty good deal.


 
  
 A brand new Mixamp with a cheap headset bundled with it, free of charge? I'll admit, that IS tempting.
  
 But I just don't have the money or any real need for it right now. If anything, I'd mainly want it for use with my MMX 300, particularly chat mixing, but it's by no means imperative.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Which AKGs have you heard?


 
  
 Q701, K702 AE, K712


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, if only that deal were around when I bought my 2011 Mixamp, I'd have went for it, in a heartbeat, well obvioucly, since i bought my 2011 Mixamp for near that price.


----------



## Change is Good

I definitely would get it for my nephew if I had the extra money, right now.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Q701, K702 AE, K712




How different are the Q701. and the K702AE? 
Have you tried interchanging their pads to see if the pads indeed make a lot of difference?
Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K702 AE and Q701 are 99.9% the same *IF YOU * use the same pads. The AE was a hint warmer (like a miniscule amount of a HINT), but without a side by side comparison (which I did), you wouldn't know which is which based on sound alone, IF THEY USE THE SAME PADS. The pad differences are what makes the AE and Q701 sound like two different headphones. So owning both pads effectively gives you both headphones.

If you have the Q701, buy some AE pads = basically instant Annie, but with headband bumps.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> K702 AE and Q701 are 99.9% the same *IF YOU * use the same pads. The AE was a hint warmer (like a miniscule amount of a HINT), but without a side by side comparison (which I did), you wouldn't know which is which based on sound alone, IF THEY USE THE SAME PADS. The pad differences are what makes the AE and Q701 sound like two different headphones. So owning both pads effectively gives you both headphones.
> 
> If you have the Q701, buy some AE pads = basically instant Annie, but with headband bumps.


 
 What's the difference between the AKG K612 and the Philips X1? I'm doubting between those 2 headphones.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> K702 AE and Q701 are 99.9% the same *IF YOU * use the same pads. The AE was a hint warmer (like a miniscule amount of a HINT), but without a side by side comparison (which I did), you wouldn't know which is which based on sound alone, IF THEY USE THE SAME PADS. The pad differences are what makes the AE and Q701 sound like two different headphones. So owning both pads effectively gives you both headphones.
> 
> If you have the Q701, buy some AE pads = basically instant Annie, but with headband bumps.




Following that logic the Q701 must then be the same as the K701/2 as the annie edition only has different pads and. Cosmetics...
Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## dakanao

What's the best amp/DAC option and best replacement cable in Europe for the Fidelio X1? Also, how does the X1 compare to the AKG K612.


----------



## Nokami

oh gosh deleted all...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Following that logic the Q701 must then be the same as the K701/2 as the annie edition only has different pads and. Cosmetics...
> Correct me if I am wrong.




I can only speak for the Q701 and Annies, since I owned a very old K701 that sounded a bit different from the Q701, and has gone through an extra bump, pad, and sonic changes, and I haven't heard a standard K702.



As for K612 and X1, i haven't heard the K612, but I'm betting it's a bit more polite, and less bassy than the X1. Going by graphs, both have a very clean/balanced mid to treble range, with the X1 having a peak at 10khz that isn't offensive at all to my ears, certainly no DT990 type peak. The X1 will be easy to drive, and i hear the K612 demands some decent amping. Willing to be the K612 is incredibly comfortable, if going by how the Annie with Q701 pads feels. The X1 is excellent in comfort.


Nokami, AD700x if you really need footstep whoring.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> I can only speak for the Q701 and Annies, since I owned a very old K701 that sounded a bit different from the Q701, and has gone through an extra bump, pad, and sonic changes, and I haven't heard a standard K702.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I want to get the best out of the X1 with my laptop, AND TB DSS. So what amp/DAC do you recommend for the X1 for cleaner bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

An amp isn't gonna magically change the X1's bass. A clean SS would make it as tight as it can be. The Fiio E12 actually reigns in bass just a tad, and I felt the X1 sounded the most balanced out of it. As for DAC, I doubt you can go wrong with the ODAC or Modi. Loved both, both sounded great. I liked the X1 just out of the e17 amp/dac well enough.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> An amp isn't gonna magically change the X1's bass. A clean SS would make it as tight as it can be. The Fiio E12 actually reigns in bass just a tad, and I felt the X1 sounded the most balanced out of it. As for DAC, I doubt you can go wrong with the ODAC or Modi. Loved both, both sounded great. I liked the X1 just out of the e17 amp/dac well enough.


 
 So for a guy like me who loves clean, thumping bass with great sound quality, the FiiO E17 is the best option for the X1 for me?


----------



## chicolom

E17 would probably be fine. 
  
 In my experience, portable amps seem to have trouble matching the soundstage and dynamics of desktop amps.  Even with easy to drive headphones like the X1 this has been the case.  Not to dissuade you or anything.  You can always use the E17 now and add a desktop amp later if you want.  The E17 is pretty versatile, and I like that it has an optical input. 
  
  
 FYI if you set the DSS bass boost wheel to the _minimum _setting it actually acts like a bass REDUCER, and you get less bass than with the stock signal.  So this might be good for the X1, if it ends up having a little too much bass in a game.


----------



## TooManyHobbies

I'd love to see/hear your take on the Samson SR850.   I've been using it for gaming and it's quite good at what it does especially for being a $50 headphone. (we'll see how it compares to the X1's i just ordered).  Nice soundstage, clean highs and good sub bass. 
  
  
 Also, this thread is freakin awesome. Thanks Mad Lust for all the info here. I've been using it as a reference for a while now.


----------



## Evshrug

If you're gaming with a TB DSS though, the dss IS the DAC. You can plug an amp into the DSS headphone jack though.

Chico,
I never realized that about the DSS bass boost, I'll have to play with that tonight!


----------



## MrBounce

Thank you for all the great info in this thread!
 Very useful on my quest to get something decent without breaking the bank for my console gameplay.


----------



## tivac

I've got a 30% discount on anything from SteelSeries, and just saw http://steelseries.com/us/products/audio/steelseries-h-wireless
  
 Hard to find any decent reviews online, anybody here have strong opinions? I have a weakness for wireless headsets!


----------



## AxelCloris

Put up a little review of the iCan amp. I wrote a bit about gaming with the amp, so if you're interested you can find it here.
  
 Thanks so much Chico for letting me borrow it for the holidays. I'll have her back to you post haste.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Put up a little review of the iCan amp. I wrote a bit about gaming with the amp, so if you're interested you can find it here.
> 
> Thanks so much Chico for letting me borrow it for the holidays. I'll have her back to you post haste.


 
  
 Nice review. Great piece of equipment, if you ask me, and I sometimes miss the one I had, dearly...


----------



## CGBSpencer

About the DSS the "Bass Boot" it does make a bit of difference in games and movies, I dont have that many headphones but the one that I had used, once u get all the bass dia up there is bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What do you guys think of this under a Thanks section on the guide? I feel like I'm missing a bit. Let me know.


*Gaming Guide Contributors/Regulars*

AxelCloris
chicolom
Change is Good - Shure SRH1840, Schiit Asgard 2 (for review of Alpha Dog and 1840)
Evshrug
NamelessPFG - Victor SU-DH1, Creative Recon 3D USB
PurpleAngel

*Contributors*

calpis - Ultrasone Pro 2900
HeadAmp - Audeze LCD2, Stax SR407
jazzerdave Koss ESP-950
MattTCG Mad Dog
mrspeakers - Mad Dog, Alpha Dog
ruuku - Guide help
tdockweiler - Q701 (for comparison to K702 Anniversary)

*Companies (headphones sent in for review)*

Astrogaming - A40, A50
Headamp - LCD2 - SR407
MrSpeakers - Mad Dog, Alpha Dog
Nuforce - HP800
Skullcandy - Slyr, PLYR1


----------



## Change is Good

Looks good to me. I like how you even included the companies, as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm undoubtedly missing some people, but I have a horrible memory, as soon as they post, I'll remember. XD

Ah, I'll have to add MrSpeaker on the company section as well. Headamp too.


----------



## Change is Good

You might want to check the replies section and see who's posted the most for you to remember anyone you might have forgotten.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

ateupwithgolf said:


> Great thread, just what i was looking for. MLE, can you tell me if there is any difference between the sony dir800c unit vs the 2013 mixamp? i got an xbox one to go upstairs and didnt want to move my setup with the xbox360, so i bought the mixamp to pair with the xbox one. Im currently using Sony F1's plugged in to either the dir800c or mixamp and came across your thread in search of a new gaming can that might out perform the F1's. my budget is $300. my use is gaming 90%. only other headphone ive ever tried was the ad700 amd hated the comfort. thinking sony ma900, but if theres a better one in my price range im all in. Suggestions? thanks!




Didn't get a reply so I'll ask another way.....currently use sony f1's for gaming, are akgq701's better for sound whoring?

Also, does the Sony DH decoder http://wireless-headphones-review.toptenreviews.com/pioneer-se-dir800c-review.html here do the exact same thing as the mixamp?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> What do you guys think of this under a Thanks section on the guide? I feel like I'm missing a bit. Let me know.
> 
> 
> *Gaming Guide Contributors/Regulars*
> ...




Wow, thank you! Yeah I'm down with that, though it motivates me to contribute something specific... I'll figure it out. Apparently, it must be the Omni 




ateupwithgolf said:


> Didn't get a reply so I'll ask another way.....currently use sony f1's for gaming, are akgq701's better for sound whoring?
> 
> Also, does the Sony DH decoder http://wireless-headphones-review.toptenreviews.com/pioneer-se-dir800c-review.html here do the exact same thing as the mixamp?



Maybe you didn't get a reply because you didn't link to the actual product, so anyone like me, on our day off work looking for fun, would have to do some digging to see what you're talking about, AND we don't immediately reply because we haven't heard them ourselves.

That said, I looked it up. The Pioneer that is actually on the page you linked seems really attractive, and it uses Dolby Headphone to create technically high-performance virtual surround. BUT... The Sony is one of those headphones that uses separate drivers clustered in each earpiece. You can't use it's decoder with other headphones (it's a special processor to tell the Sony 5.1 headphone to play _this_ sound on _that_ driver...). Also, multi-driver headphones compromise sound quality and refinement in order to cram those extra drivers (speakers) inside, _plus_ the compromise in amping and DAC hardware limited to what can fit into the wireless headphones themselves, it's easy to make an educated recommendation that the Q701's (which I do have LOTS of experience with) would outperform the Sony F1, especially when you pair it with a decent amp.

*EDIT:*
Honestly dude, kinda wishing now I hadn't wasted the time looking up the answer to your question... I don't mean to be rude in saying that, but it would've been more respectful of others on your end to link to the right stuff, because basically I had to to the same web research you could've done yourself. But, since I found it, here's the info:

The Sony MDR-F1:
Discontinued, few reviews. Looking at it, the headphone is a stereo unit that looks like the predecessor to the Sony MDR-MA900, not the wireless Sony mentioned in the review round-up in your link. Similar earcups, impedance ratings (and impedance compensator), driver size, and basic technical stats. If it's anything like the MA900, then it's a very good and competent headphone, but I don't know because there are very very few reviews and none by people whom I've got a grasp on their tastes and how they'd stack up to other headphones.

The *PIONEER se-dir800c*:
Looks like a decent unit, and now I understand why your link went to the wireless Pioneer headphones that come with this decoder. It uses the same Dolby Headphone surround processing as the Mixamp and DSS, discussed at length here, but I don't know how the built-in DAC and Amp compare to the built-in DAC/Amp of the Mixamp. Google search unearths this useful resource for you:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/193743/pioneer-se-dir800c-vs-sony-mdr-ds6000/0_30


----------



## Dougalls

For anybody attaching a boom mic to headphones, I can highly recommend using 3M dual lock instead of velcro, it provides a stronger attachment and the mic doesn't wobble. I bought a couple of small pieces from ebay cheaply. Big improvement over the velcro I was using.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

evshrug said:


> Wow, thank you! Yeah I'm down with that, though it motivates me to contribute something specific... I'll figure it out. Apparently, it must be the Omni
> Maybe you didn't get a reply because you didn't link to the actual product, so anyone like me, on our day off work looking for fun, would have to do some digging to see what you're talking about, AND we don't immediately reply because we haven't heard them ourselves.
> 
> That said, I looked it up. The Pioneer that is actually on the page you linked seems really attractive, and it uses Dolby Headphone to create technically high-performance virtual surround. BUT... The Sony is one of those headphones that uses separate drivers clustered in each earpiece. You can't use it's decoder with other headphones (it's a special processor to tell the Sony 5.1 headphone to play _this_ sound on _that_ driver...). Also, multi-driver headphones compromise sound quality and refinement in order to cram those extra drivers (speakers) inside, _plus_ the compromise in amping and DAC hardware limited to what can fit into the wireless headphones themselves, it's easy to make an educated recommendation that the Q701's (which I do have LOTS of experience with) would outperform the Sony F1, especially when you pair it with a decent amp.
> ...




Wow, it must be really cold in Pittsburgh for that reply. To clarify, I use the DH decoder in the Sony and plug in the Sony MDR-F1's into the base unit instead of using the wireless headphones that come with it. I also have a mixamp 2013 version. I am wondering if anyone knows if the mixamp and the decoder in the sony do the same thing. If they do indeed, would a akgq701 be a superior headphone for gaming than the Sony F1's? 
EDIT: apologize for not linking the first time


----------



## DADDYDC650

I really need advice on which headphone/mic or headset to buy that will work on my PS4 and Xbox One. My budget is $250. Can anyone please help?


----------



## kenshinhimura

daddydc650 said:


> I really need advice on which headphone/mic or headset to buy that will work on my PS4 and Xbox One. My budget is $250. Can anyone please help?


 

 any headphone will work, it comes down to the product suppling the DH to the headset (like a mixamp) working with ps4/xbox one and how good the headphone itself is.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I really need advice on which headphone/mic or headset to buy that will work on my PS4 and Xbox One. My budget is $250. Can anyone please help?


 
  
 If you already have the device to go between the console and headphones (mixamp/DSS/Recon3D USB/etc) then you have a decent selection available at the $250 price point. What kind of games do you intend to play? Knowing the game type may help us narrow down which could be best. Do you plan to use the headphones for anything other than gaming? Do you want to use an amp or are you looking specifically for headphones that don't require one? Do you like cheeseburgers?


----------



## DADDYDC650

kenshinhimura said:


> any headphone will work, it comes down to the product suppling the DH to the headset (like a mixamp) working with ps4/xbox one and how good the headphone itself is.


What about the mic? I'm also interested in the Polk Audio 4Shot headset that's coming out. Sound quality should be similar to the Polk Audio Melee from what I've read.


----------



## AxelCloris

Pretty sure I remember reading that the 4 Shot is exclusive to the Xbox One. Am I mistaken?


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> If you already have the device to go between the console and headphones (mixamp/DSS/Recon3D USB/etc) then you have a decent selection available at the $250 price point. What kind of games do you intend to play? Knowing the game type may help us narrow down which could be best. Do you plan to use the headphones for anything other than gaming? Do you want to use an amp or are you looking specifically for headphones that don't require one? Do you like cheeseburgers?


I love cheeseburgers and I need a mic to go along with the headphones. I don't want to wrap a mic around my neck though. I have a DSS and I really don't want to add an amp. A wireless headset would be perfect but the only one that looks interesting to me is the Polk Audio 4Shot. I'm mostly into fps, racing, sports and adventure games.

Forgot to mention that I own the original DSS.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

Get the mod mic for your chat, works great.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I love cheeseburgers and I need a mic to go along with the headphones. I don't want to wrap a mic around my neck though. I have a DSS and I really don't want to add an amp. A wireless headset would be perfect but the only one that looks interesting to me is the Polk Audio 4Shot. I'm mostly into fps, racing, sports and adventure games.
> 
> Forgot to mention that I own the original DSS.


 
  
 If you're looking wireless, I think your best choice is to get a wireless Mixamp and pair it with a pair of headphones or headset. You can find a Mixamp 5.8 for around $80-$150 depending on condition. That could leave you $100-$170 for a headphone and mic combo or headset. If you're thinking you want a wireless headset. This will let you pick out the best headphones for your game genre and get the most out of what you like sound-wise. If you're wanting an all in one system check out the Skullcandy PLYR 1. MLE did a review on the first post and I've seen them as low as $100 before. It does Dolby Headphone and will work with both consoles. Either way you'll be setting aside the DSS unless you're ok using it as your processor; in which case you can get better headphones/mic.
  
 No matter what option you choose you may need an adapter of some sort to get the mic to work with the new generation, but it's still possible. Microsoft has changed their controller connection for mic input. I'm unsure if Sony has done the same with their mic input.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> If you're looking wireless, I think your best choice is to get a wireless Mixamp and pair it with a pair of headphones or headset. You can find a Mixamp 5.8 for around $80-$150 depending on condition. That could leave you $100-$170 for a headphone and mic combo or headset. If you're thinking you want a wireless headset. This will let you pick out the best headphones for your game genre and get the most out of what you like sound-wise. If you're wanting an all in one system check out the Skullcandy PLYR 1. MLE did a review on the first post and I've seen them as low as $100 before. It does Dolby Headphone and will work with both consoles. Either way you'll be setting aside the DSS unless you're ok using it as your processor; in which case you can get better headphones/mic.
> 
> No matter what option you choose you may need an adapter of some sort to get the mic to work with the new generation, but it's still possible. Microsoft has changed their controller connection for mic input. I'm unsure if Sony has done the same with their mic input.


Seems as if I'd be in wire hell if I were to go the headphones + separate mic route. 

In regards to the PLYR1, wouldn't the PLYR2 be better?


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> Seems as if I'd be in wire hell if I were to go the headphones + separate mic route.
> 
> In regards to the PLYR1, wouldn't the PLYR2 be better?


 
  
 You can easily manage cables to have them controlled with a wired setup. And the PLYR1 is the top version. The PLYR2 is $50 less retail. The PLYR1 brings to the table 7.1 processing, optical pass-through, and a charging base/receiver that doubles as a stand.
  
 [edit] Forgot to mention that PLYR2 is stereo.


----------



## chicolom

ateupwithgolf said:


> Didn't get a reply so I'll ask another way.....currently use sony f1's for gaming, are akgq701's better for sound whoring?


 
  
  
 The MDR F1 definitely shares some similarities to the MA900 in sound, but the latter is a bit of an improvement overall.  The F1 is a tad more rolled off in the highs and a tad less detailed overall.  I found the soundstage on the F1 to be a bit overly diffuse and holographic when used with Dolby Headphone.
  
 The Q701 is a more detailed headphone and has sharper and more discrete imaging/positioning when used in Dolby Headphone.  So yes, the Q701s are better for sound whoring.
  
  
 If all you care about is sound whoring though, the Q701 is overkill, because it won't sound whore any better than an AD700(x) or HD5x8.  It will mainly be more immersive.


----------



## ateupwithgolf

chicolom said:


> The MDR F1 definitely shares some similarities to the MA900 in sound, but the latter is a bit of an improvement overall.  The F1 is a tad more rolled off in the highs and a tad less detailed overall.  I found the soundstage on the F1 to be a bit overly diffuse and holographic when used with Dolby Headphone.
> 
> The Q701 is a more detailed headphone and has sharper and more discrete imaging/positioning when used in Dolby Headphone.  So yes, the Q701s are better for sound whoring.
> 
> ...





ateupwithgolf said:


> Get the mod mic for your chat, works great.




Thank you for the info! I like my F1's, great comfort, but wanted to try something different as well. Had a pair of AD 700's already, but comfort/fit was issue for me. I'm gonna try out some Akg q701's and see how it goes.


----------



## SaLX

MLE - why haven't you added entries in the amp section for the proper desktop amps that you have owned?


----------



## avens

chicolom said:


> If all you care about is sound whoring though, the Q701 is overkill, because it won't sound whore any better than an AD700(x) or HD5x8.  It will mainly be more immersive.


 
  
  
 I have owned the AD700, the 555 (modded too) and the 598, and the former is considerably better than all those for competitive gaming. That's the only one that made an unfair advantage, sound whoring.
  
 Of course this is talking about a particular use, because the 598 are way better headphones as a whole than the other two and people say the top of the line AKGs just destroy them, which should be true considering they were a part of 'the headphone trio' and the other two are proper hi-fi, where it starts.
  
 On a side note, the 555 soundstage mod is overrated. Doing it has big tradeoffs, ruining the headphones for music (not that they were good to begin with) and I'd say doesn't make them any better for gaming as well.


----------



## Chubtoad

The Fidelio X1's are $249.99 on Amazon.com at the moment....and they ship to Canada...so tempted to get these, but I plan to buy the Vmoda M100s so I dont think I should bite on this.


----------



## AxelCloris

chubtoad said:


> The Fidelio X1's are $249.99 on Amazon.com at the moment....and they ship to Canada...so tempted to get these, but I plan to buy the Vmoda M100s so I dont think I should bite on this.


 
  
 I think you should buy both to have both open and closed. Then again I'm evil.


----------



## Chubtoad

Yeah I dont think I can pass it up. I do already have a pair of Annies though, but I want the X1's as a compliment to them.
  
  
 To anyone interested, the sale lasts until January 31st


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

salx said:


> MLE - why haven't you added entries in the amp section for the proper desktop amps that you have owned?




Because it's unconventional and illogical. Most people looking for gaming headphones tend to have small budgets. For gaming purposes, recommending a $600 amp/dac on the guide just doesn't make sense. If they happen to own such a solution, then chances are they already know to use it. For thise looking for simple, accessible methods on powering headphones for gaming, will more than likely go for something in the $100 range.

I know I have expensive headphones up, but those are more likely to be bought, than an expensive amp/dac.


----------



## BlackThought

Think im gonna pull trigger on Sennheiser PC 360 or AKG K 701.....argh.
  
 I hate making decisions.
  
 Still have my Sound Blaster Zx sitting in my drawer, the Titanium HD i won sounds better IMO.


----------



## Evshrug

ateupwithgolf said:


> Wow, it must be really cold in Pittsburgh for that reply. To clarify, I use the DH decoder in the Sony and plug in the Sony MDR-F1's into the base unit instead of using the wireless headphones that come with it. I also have a mixamp 2013 version. I am wondering if anyone knows if the mixamp and the decoder in the sony do the same thing. If they do indeed, would a akgq701 be a superior headphone for gaming than the Sony F1's?
> EDIT: apologize for not linking the first time




Somewhere between 5-11 degrees Fahrenheit at that time  Also quite dark, and after X-mas shoppers can be quite mean/demanding  I'm not against helping, but please forgive letting exasperation get to me?


What Sony decoder are you using?
If the decoder is using Dolby Headphone, then it is using the exact same processing as the Mixamp and (original) DSS to create virtual surround... any other difference would come from the quality in DAC and Amp built into the decoder.
The Q701 is a top-tier headphone by one of the oldest and proficient headphone makers, I haven't heard the Sony F1 but I CAN tell you that the Q701 delivers competitive detail AND immersiveness in spades. The trade-off of having very detailed headphones, however, is they might reveal flaws in other gear.




blackthought said:


> Think im gonna pull trigger on Sennheiser PC 360 or AKG K 701.....argh.
> 
> I hate making decisions.



It is hard to spend money on headphones when you don't actually know what your experience will be like, and you want your dollar to go the furthest, huh? I totally get that. Been there.

Mad's review of the PC360 is spot on, I heard a definitely good and capable headphone in it. I chose to buy and own a Q701, because it's a step-up and a very great value in headphone-world. It's really easy to add a mic to use with any headphone, in fact it gives me more slack to use a separate headphone if I want to use the mic input of my Xbox controller, and I just coil it around my headphone cable if I use it with my PC. Mad linked a really inexpensive mic – that clips to your shirt – on the first post of this thread, I bought a 3-pack and they all work well.


----------



## TooManyHobbies

axelcloris said:


> Pretty sure I remember reading that the 4 Shot is exclusive to the Xbox One. Am I mistaken?




It is. I also heard that the 4 shot transmitter was stereo only. I can't find a definitive answer though.


----------



## chicolom

ateupwithgolf said:


> Thank you for the info! I like my F1's, great comfort, but wanted to try something different as well. Had a pair of AD 700's already, but comfort/fit was issue for me. I'm gonna try out some Akg q701's and see how it goes.


 
  
 You can't go wrong with NEW Q701s for $199...
  


chubtoad said:


> The Fidelio X1's are $249.99 on Amazon.com at the moment....


 
  
 ...or NEW X1s for $249.
  
  
 Both great headphones, and great values at those prices.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Because it's unconventional and illogical. Most people looking for gaming headphones tend to have small budgets. For gaming purposes, recommending a $600 amp/dac on the guide just doesn't make sense. If they happen to own such a solution, then chances are they already know to use it. For thise looking for simple, accessible methods on powering headphones for gaming, will more than likely go for something in the $100 range.
> 
> I know I have expensive headphones up, but those are more likely to be bought, than an expensive amp/dac.


 
  
 The other reason it doesn't make sense is that most of the perceived sound quality at the end is a function of the headphone.
  
 Buyers should pick out whatever headphone fits their tastes and then buy the amp that brings the most out of it. Going the other way around is unnecessarily limiting...especially if you're like me and develop a taste for electrostatics at that price range, which rules out the vast majority of the amp market.
  
 Also, I don't really like combo DAC/amps. Want to replace just one? Too bad, you gotta replace both. Besides, if I had that much money to blow on just amplification, I'd grab another Stax SRM-T1, maybe an SRM-313 with a Normal bias jack, depending on what's available on the used market. Those sort of amps never get DACs integrated into them anyway.


----------



## rudyae86

Hey, i was wondering if someone has tried using the Beyerdynamic COPs for gaming? How are they compared to the dt770/880/990 in terms of soundstage and detailing sounds?

Hopefully these can be reviewed by MLE since theres quite a few people buying then for gaming but have mix reviews.
Would appreciate it


----------



## chicolom

rudyae86 said:


> Hey, i was wondering if someone has tried using the Beyerdynamic COPs for gaming? How are they compared to the dt770/880/990 in terms of soundstage and detailing sounds?
> 
> Hopefully these can be reviewed by MLE since theres quite a few people buying then for gaming but have mix reviews.
> Would appreciate it


 
  
  
 FWIR the COPs don't have a particularly impressive soundstage.  I wouldn't expect them to be on par with the 770/MMX300, let alone the 880/990.


----------



## davisman

avens said:


> On a side note, the 555 soundstage mod is overrated. Doing it has big tradeoffs, ruining the headphones for music (not that they were good to begin with) and I'd say doesn't make them any better for gaming as well.


 
  
 I find this to be true of most mods.


----------



## Simarilli

I wonder if anyone could give some input into my situation. I am an only-PC gamer but this seems to be the more active place for headphone advice.
  
 Currently I'm using Goldring NS1000s and a Xonar DG, and I'm looking to upgrade since these are beginning to have issues and my birthday is approaching. Isolation isn't an issue, and most of my time is spent playing competitive FPS. When I do listen to music, it's generally classical or stuff like Elbow/Adele/Coldplay/occasionally-guilty-musicals.
  
 I don't have a huge budget, and I would like to avoid having to get external DACs/Amps. Q701s look ideal (if on the very high end of the budget - £150 imported from US) for me, but from what I've read the Xonar DG would struggle to drive them properly. I could alternatively get DT770/990 Pro 80Ohms for £118, which I hear also benefit greatly from amping but holy **** they look comfortable. The headphones I'm leaning towards right now are the AD700s, which I can get for £92.
  
 Would appreciate any thoughts on the best solution.
  
 On another note, to get Dolby Headphone I should just have 5.1 selected in game and DH enabled in Xonar menu right?
  
  
 Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

simarilli said:


> I wonder if anyone could give some input into my situation. I am an only-PC gamer but this seems to be the more active place for headphone advice.
> Currently I'm using Goldring NS1000s and a Xonar DG, and I'm looking to upgrade since these are beginning to have issues and my birthday is approaching. Isolation isn't an issue, and most of my time is spent playing competitive FPS. When I do listen to music, it's generally classical or stuff like Elbow/Adele/Coldplay/occasionally-guilty-musicals.
> I don't have a huge budget, and I would like to avoid having to get external DACs/Amps. Q701s look ideal (if on the very high end of the budget - £150 imported from US) for me, but from what I've read the Xonar DG would struggle to drive them properly. I could alternatively get DT770/990 Pro 80Ohms for £118, which I hear also benefit greatly from amping but holy **** they look comfortable. The headphones I'm leaning towards right now are the AD700s, which I can get for £92.
> Would appreciate any thoughts on the best solution.
> On another note, to get Dolby Headphone I should just have 5.1 selected in game and DH enabled in Xonar menu right?


 
 Check out the AKG K612 Pro (120-Ohm) headphones, 120 GBP.
  
 Setting the game to 5.1 (6-channel) sounds right.
 Also assuming you have set the Xonar DG's Audio Channel to "6-channel"
 and enabled "Dolby Headphone" in the DG's Audio Output
  
 Hopefully you have disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS
 Have you tried the Unified Xonar drivers? with the Xonar DG.


----------



## martin vegas

simarilli said:


> I wonder if anyone could give some input into my situation. I am an only-PC gamer but this seems to be the more active place for headphone advice.
> 
> Currently I'm using Goldring NS1000s and a Xonar DG, and I'm looking to upgrade since these are beginning to have issues and my birthday is approaching. Isolation isn't an issue, and most of my time is spent playing competitive FPS. When I do listen to music, it's generally classical or stuff like Elbow/Adele/Coldplay/occasionally-guilty-musicals.
> 
> ...


 

 The ATH AD700X are more comfortable!


----------



## Simarilli

purpleangel said:


> Check out the AKG K612 Pro (120-Ohm) headphones, 120 GBP.
> 
> Setting the game to 5.1 (6-channel) sounds right.
> Also assuming you have set the Xonar DG's Audio Channel to "6-channel"
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestion, looks like a definite possibility.
 Fairly sure I've done all that, although I seem to remember it being irritatingly difficult/non-intuitive to disable onboard. Definitely running the unified drivers.
  


martin vegas said:


> The ATH AD700X are more comfortable!


 
  
 They are? Excellent, might go for them instead. I can actually get them slightly cheaper, although whether they would arrive in time for birthday is up in the air.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> The ATH AD700X are more comfortable!


 
  
 A matter of opinion. I cannot stand AT designs in terms of comfort. I'd take the AKG or Beyer cans as they fit my head. The AT wing design is terrible if you have a somewhat narrow head, as I do.


----------



## Chubtoad

I am just wondering what those of you with handheld consoles (Vita & 3DS) are using for headphones?


----------



## Change is Good

The Koss clip ons have been well known around here for those who game on the go. I have none, myself, but have read great things about them... especially at their price...


----------



## AxelCloris

HD800. Joking aside I use the KSC75 or PortaPros with my 3DS, so a plus one for the Koss clip-on.


----------



## TomatoTen

chicolom said:


> You can't go wrong with NEW Q701s for $199...
> 
> 
> ...or NEW X1s for $249.
> ...


 
 What do you mean by NEW X1s?


----------



## Change is Good

He means "NEW" as in brand new...


----------



## AxelCloris

tomatoten said:


> What do you mean by NEW X1s?


 
  
 He's just emphasizing that it is not a used price.
  
 Wow I am late to the party. Change beat me to it buy quite a while.


----------



## chicolom

Yeah.  I was emphasizing that you're getting a brand new pair for 250. 
  
 Normally new ones are 300 and used ones go for ~250, so it's a good price for a new pair.


----------



## jerrylundergard

Is the beyerdynamic dt 990 250 ohm can the one I need? I have a mixamp and creative sound blaster z and sennheiser hd 598. Basically listen to dubstep (skrillex, deadmau), or Metalica type stuff. Either game on 360 or PC. Not really looking for the greatest soundwhoring can as I already have the 598s I just want something alot of fun that can also do double duty for gaming. Im thinking x1, sony ma 900, but just feel gravitated to the dt 990, especialy for ~150$. Anyone got any better ideas or opinions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

+1 for the Koss clip ons.

As always, I recommend buying both the Sportapro ($20), and KSC75 ($10-15). You snap off the Sportapro drivers, and use them with the KSC75 clips. Instant KSC35 (with comfier clips), all for no more than $35. Or just get the KSC75 first and see how that works out for you. If you want more warmth, the Sportapro will have that.

Just remember, you MUST bend the KSC75 clips inward, as out of the box, they are way too separated from the drivers, making you lose a lot of the bass and making the drivers overly bright. the more the drivers press towards your ear, the better.




change is good said:


> The Koss clip ons have been well known around here for those who game on the go. I have none, myself, but have read great things about them... especially at their price...




I'll send you my leftover Sportapro/ksc35 drivers with the PE headband for you to try out. I can't give up my KSC35 clips though.  

I think I may have ruined my PE headband which may fit too loosely, so I'll have to check.

I'll even throw in the Px100-II modded with KSC75 clips, though they are less comfy.


I guarantee it's gonna take you an eternity to get them to go on right. At first, it's a monumental task to put on the clips right, lol. I may have to do a video on just putting them on right, lol.

You can send them back at your leisure, and in super small packaging. 


I'm gonna start writing my 1840 review today (as in an hour).


----------



## retiredat21

Hi guys.. im going to buy the fidelio and connect it with a xonar u3 but i read that this setup alone will mess up the sq due to impedance.. so i decided to connect a dac/amp combo in between.. i was just wondering which is better to connect with this setup.. the e7 or the e10? E17 is kinda out of the budget.. i hope someone can help me.. thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, since neither are have optical dacs, you don't need to buy a dac/amp. The cheapest dac/amp with an optical input is the E17, FWIS. For now, you can just get an E11, which is actually a little more powerful than the E17, but has no dac.

Bear in mind, you will be double amping from the U3. All you're doing is amping the amped signal with a better output impedance, which will stabilize the X1's frequency response.

Honestly, I'd just get the U3 and x1 for now (though it may sound a little thin at first), then buying a used E17 later. We're talking like a $20 difference from something like the E11 anyways.

The E10 only works as a usb dac FIRST, so you can't connect the U3 to it.

The E7K IMHO just isn't worth it, when the E17 is just a little more and has all the features plus more power.


----------



## retiredat21

Thank you for the response! How much performance gain our se talking about here if i decided to stretch my budget to buy the e17?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're getting the optical input which is the most important aspect, as you can st the U3 to output an optical signal, so you won't be using the U3 for anything other than Dolby headphone processing, and using the E17's internal dac and amp. The E17's amp is considerably stronger than the E7s, and the X1, while efficient can still benefit from more and more power. Performance gain is subjective. You can't put a number on it. I haven't tested the E7K, but the power specs don't convince me it'd be anything truly proper for the X1.

I honestly don't understand why the E7K was made after the E17, as it's only a bit cheaper and lacks the spdif input and is weaker. They should've focused on something else.


----------



## Chubtoad

I'll take a look at those koss, but what about the CAL!? I know you liked them when you had them a long time ago. I see they are on sale now for $73.99 and the CAL! 2 is 129.99 although I don't know anything about them.

How come the Koss KSC35 is discontinued if it was better than the KSC75? Was it just to get people to buy sportapro and the KSC75 and have to make their own? Lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Koss KSC35 isn't discontinued. Koss sells it directly from their website.

No idea why they stopped selling it outside of their site though.

The CAL is great. Tyll at Innerfidelity stated that the CAL2 is inferior to the original CAL, which I expected, as it no longer uses Fostex's bio-cellulose drivers.

The CAL is and will always be an impressive headphone to my ears, but I prefer the low profile, openness, and comfort of the Koss clip ons. In fact, i feel I may have scored the KSC35's comfort too low.


----------



## Nokami

Heyja,
  
 will the AD700 or Sony MDRMA900 be an Upgrade vs my HD598? Or it is not worth?
  
 *for Gaming
  
 Thanks


----------



## conquerator2

Heads-up for the K612 Pros, amazing, amazing headphones [even when driven off a DAP, unamped IMO, though they will surely improve further when my amp arrive].
 For the same price as the MA900, IMO they beat it in everything but air quantity and sheer soundstage size [though the imaging is superior], bass is subjective [K612 a bit tighter, MA900 a bit boomier, but still very tight].
 Overall, very impressed, they are different to the MA900 somewhat [though still similar in essence].
 I'll post more when the amp is here [M-Stage] but as said, even now, they are essentially what I hoped for [and you still have the opportunity to get the K701/2 pads for them to gain a bit more air/soundstage at the expense of a bit of bass, I am planning to get them later]


----------



## retiredat21

Looks like im gonna be going with the e17 then. More questions.. do i need to buy anything else aside from the u3 and the e17 to have it working with the laptop? This is actually my first time doing this and my first time buying a dac and amp so i really have no idea.. thank you!


----------



## exSpire

Hey
  
 Not sure if this is the right place for my question.

 Would there be a difference in games (FPS) with this situation?
 from Soundcard > Headphones; moving to USB DAC > Amp > Headphones
  
 I read here and there suggestions to go with SPDIF from soundcard into DAC but in another place I read that there won't be any difference.
 I mean there would obviously be the difference in quality from a crappy onboard soundcard to a decent DAC. What I mean is, in terms of sound cues about players positions, would there be any difference?
  
 Thanks a lot in advance!


----------



## Chubtoad

mad lust envy said:


> The Koss KSC35 isn't discontinued. Koss sells it directly from their website.
> 
> No idea why they stopped selling it outside of their site though.
> 
> ...





It's actually cheaper for me to buy the ksc35 directly vs buying the other 2 individually. They look like a solid solution for on the go. Truth be told though, I use my handhelds at home more than I take them with me so I don't really mind larger headphones. It's also why I most likely will just bite on the fidelio x1 and complete my home setup. 

From the sounds of it they could just plug in directly and sound just fine without any amping. Or if needed just pick up something cheap like the e11 or e12 although e12 probably not necessary. The only thing that holds me back is that I already have the Annie so I just don't know how much of a difference there would really be, like is the bass that much more for that fun and immersion factor? That's really the big thing for me is the bass factor. If it's enough of a difference then that's probably what I would end up doing and grabbing a pair of koss for the times I need them.

I just recently had to renew my phone contract so I upgraded to a Samsung galaxy note 3 (pretty beastly phone) so I assume the Koss would work well with that as well.

*edit* obviously I'd be able to use the X1's on my console/pc and not just entirely for my handhelds so theres always that too.


----------



## 1llest

Has anybody used an Amp with the Astro mixamp? my setup is Astro mixamp > M-Stage and with PC360 and X1

The problem is, I lose pinpoint accuracy when using an amp after the mixamp. Surround is still there but I cant tell where the sound is coming from. 

Anybody have the same experience? It sucks that I can't use my amp with the mixamp.


----------



## AxelCloris

1llest said:


> Has anybody used an Amp with the Astro mixamp? my setup is Astro mixamp > M-Stage and with PC360 and X1
> 
> The problem is, I lose pinpoint accuracy when using an amp after the mixamp. Surround is still there but I cant tell where the sound is coming from.
> 
> Anybody have the same experience? It sucks that I can't use my amp with the mixamp.


 
  
 I've used an amp after the mixamp, and I know many others here have as well. I can't say I've come across this issue as the amps that I used never altered the positional queues. That said, I've never used the M-Stage with the mixamp. Chicolom has used that combination and may be able to weigh in more.
  
 As for your setup, do you have a second amp you can use, even a portable one, to see if you can recreate the issue using a different configuration? Troubleshooting works best changing one link in the chain at a time.


----------



## 1llest

axelcloris said:


> I've used an amp after the mixamp, and I know many others here have as well. I can't say I've come across this issue as the amps that I used never altered the positional queues. That said, I've never used the M-Stage with the mixamp. Chicolom has used that combination and may be able to weigh in more.
> 
> As for your setup, do you have a second amp you can use, even a portable one, to see if you can recreate the issue using a different configuration? Troubleshooting works best changing one link in the chain at a time.




What amp have you used with the Mixamp? 

Im trying to get my hands on a Fiio E17 at the moment and will test it with the mixamp. It just sucks that my M-Stage alters the positional queue. It makes the sound appear closer than they should be which throws me off and hard to tell where the sound is coming from anything that is nearby. Very weird.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 is not powerful enough to gain any significant volume over the Mixamp. Power requirements for extra volume scales up exponentially as more decibels are needed. For that, you need no less than something like an E12. More would be better.


----------



## 1llest

mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is not powerful enough to gain any significant volume over the Mixamp. Power requirements for extra volume scales up exponentially as more decibels are needed. For that, you need no less than something like an E12. More would be better.




Thanks MLE. What would be a step up after the E12? Just looking at options


----------



## AxelCloris

1llest said:


> What amp have you used with the Mixamp?
> 
> Im trying to get my hands on a Fiio E17 at the moment and will test it with the mixamp. It just sucks that my M-Stage alters the positional queue. It makes the sound appear closer than they should be which throws me off and hard to tell where the sound is coming from anything that is nearby. Very weird.


 
  
 With the Mixamp I've used the amp in my Aune T1 and Schiit Magni. I've since passed along the Mixamp but I've used the E12 and iCan with my Recon3D USB.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno how much you're willing to spend. The E12 is priced somewhat similarly to the E9K, Magni, and Vali, all which are small desktop amps which have more power than the E12. If you don't need portability, I'd get one of those instead.


----------



## retiredat21

Looks like im gonna be going with the e17 then. More questions.. do i need to buy anything else aside from the u3 and the e17 to have it working with the laptop? This is actually my first time doing this and my first time buying a dac and amp so i really have no idea.. thank you!


----------



## 1llest

mad lust envy said:


> Dunno how much you're willing to spend. The E12 is priced somewhat similarly to the E9K, Magni, and Vali, all which are small desktop amps which have more power than the E12. If you don't need portability, I'd get one of those instead.




Ive been wanting to try the Vali to compliment my X1 maybe I will get that next, need to read up on it more about pairing it with the X1.

Now my question is, is there any rca switch i can buy so i dont have to keep switching rca cables from the m-stage and vali? Maybe an RCA splitter, but I am not sure if that would degrade the sound. I am planning to use my m-stage as preamp for my studio monitors and the vali for the mixamp and X1.


----------



## AxelCloris

1llest said:


> Ive been wanting to try the Vali to compliment my X1 maybe I will get that next, need to read up on it more about pairing it with the X1.
> 
> Now my question is, is there any rca switch i can buy so i dont have to keep switching rca cables from the m-stage and vali? Maybe an RCA splitter, but I am not sure if that would degrade the sound. I am planning to use my m-stage as preamp for my studio monitors and the vali for the mixamp and X1.


 
  
 It pairs better with harder to drive headphones. I had it for a short while, and when I paired it with my easy headphones I didn't care for it at all. The humming never went away on my IEMs. But it's a nice amp. Sounded very nice with my HD650. The X1 is a good deal more sensitive, so it may not pair well, but I can't say.


----------



## chicolom

exspire said:


> Would there be a difference in games (FPS) with this situation?
> from Soundcard > Headphones; *moving to USB DAC > Amp > Headphones*
> 
> I read here and there suggestions to go with SPDIF from soundcard into DAC but in another place I read that there won't be any difference.
> ...


 
  
 Does your soundcard have surround sound DSPs?  Because if so, the difference will be that you'll LOSE that surround sound when using a USB DAC.
  
 If your soundcard does NOT have surround sound, then you may get a marginal improvement in soundstage and positioning with a USB DAC and amp.  It won't be as much of an improvement as adding in virtual surround sound though.
  
  


1llest said:


> Has anybody used an Amp with the Astro mixamp? my setup is* Astro mixamp > M-Stage* and with PC360 and X1
> 
> The problem is, I lose pinpoint accuracy when using an amp after the mixamp. Surround is still there but I cant tell where the sound is coming from.
> 
> Anybody have the same experience? It sucks that I can't use my amp with the mixamp.


 
  
 I use the same setup with my M-stage.  So does Change is Good. 
  
 The M-stage is one of the BEST amps I've used for double amping, and it's able to increase the soundstaeg size the most out of all the amps I've double amped with.
  
 So something sounds off with your setup.
  
  
  
  


1llest said:


> Im trying to get my hands on a Fiio E17 at the moment and will test it with the mixamp. It just sucks that my* M-Stage alters the positional queue. It makes the sound appear closer* than they should be which throws me off and hard to tell where the sound is coming from anything that is nearby. Very weird.


 
  
  
 My M-stages does the exact opposite.  It expands the soundstage size by several feet in all directions compared to plugging in directly into the mixamp.
  
 So again, something seems off. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


1llest said:


> Now my question is, is there any rca switch i can buy so i dont have to keep switching rca cables from the m-stage and vali? Maybe an RCA splitter, but I am not sure if that would degrade the sound. I am planning to use my m-stage as preamp for my studio monitors and the vali for the mixamp and X1.


 
  
  
 Check out the TCC TC-716 6-Way Stereo Source Selector:
 http://www.amazon.com/TC-716-Stereo-Selector-BLACK-VERSION/dp/B0001F347K
  
 I have this and I love it. 
  
 Just plug all your sources _and _all your amps into it, then mix and route them as you please.  It's a completely passive device (no electronics inside) so it doesn't affect/degrade the sound.  It's just like a box of switchable interconnects.


----------



## PurpleAngel

1llest said:


> Has anybody used an Amp with the Astro mixamp? my setup is Astro mixamp > M-Stage and with PC360 and X1
> 
> The problem is, I lose pinpoint accuracy when using an amp after the mixamp. Surround is still there but I cant tell where the sound is coming from.
> 
> Anybody have the same experience? It sucks that I can't use my amp with the mixamp.


 
 My two cents and best guess.
 You might need to turn up the source and Mix-amps volumes up to as high as possible (75% or higher) and use the M-Stages volume knob to control volume.
 So first turn down the volume on the M-Stage to zero, then turn up the source/mix-amp volume controls, then try turning up the M-stage's volume knob.


----------



## DADDYDC650

PS4/Xbox One headphone. PLYR1 vs CAL 2 or Philips X1? I'd like to use the X1 but adding an additional mic and possibly and amp would make that setup even more expensive.


----------



## 1llest

chicolom said:


> Does your soundcard have surround sound DSPs?  Because if so, the difference will be that you'll LOSE that surround sound when using a USB DAC.
> 
> If your soundcard does NOT have surround sound, then you may get a marginal improvement in soundstage and positioning with a USB DAC and amp.  It won't be as much of an improvement as adding in virtual surround sound though.
> 
> ...




Yeah it looks like something is off but I dont know what it is! Everything works fine when just using the mixamp but when I add the m-stage after the mixamp then everything changes. 

xbox 360 > astro mixamp 2013 edition.

Are you using the latest mixamp?

Thanks for the switch recommendation. Will definitely give that one a try.



purpleangel said:


> My two cents and best guess.
> You might need to turn up the source and Mix-amps volumes up to as high as possible (75% or higher) and use the M-Stages volume knob to control volume.
> So first turn down the volume on the M-Stage to zero, then turn up the source/mix-amp volume controls, then try turning up the M-stage's volume knob.




Will try to do more troubleshooting when I get back home from work. Thanks.


----------



## conquerator2

chicolom said:


> Does your soundcard have surround sound DSPs?  Because if so, the difference will be that you'll LOSE that surround sound when using a USB DAC.
> 
> If your soundcard does NOT have surround sound, then you may get a marginal improvement in soundstage and positioning with a USB DAC and amp.  It won't be as much of an improvement as adding in virtual surround sound though.
> 
> ...




Makes me happy to know 
I just ordered the 2014 M-Stage with the DAC module


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> PS4/Xbox One headphone. PLYR1 vs CAL 2 or Philips X1? I'd like to use the X1 but adding an additional mic and possibly and amp would make that setup even more expensive.


 
  
 Adding a mic to the X1 is very simple compared to other headphones. Pick up the V-Moda BoomPro or RadioShack Auvio and you have an inline boom mic. The radio shack one is less expensive, but I can't speak to its quality. The BoomPro is excellent; I absolutely love mine.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> Adding a mic to the X1 is very simple compared to other headphones. Pick up the V-Moda BoomPro or RadioShack Auvio and you have an inline boom mic. The radio shack one is less expensive, but I can't speak to its quality. The BoomPro is excellent; I absolutely love mine.


Can I replace the stock X1 cable with the BoomPro???


----------



## 1llest

daddydc650 said:


> Can I replace the stock X1 cable with the BoomPro???




I purchased a boom pro for my X1 and was just delivered today. Can't wait to try it when I get home. From what I read though, it works well with the X1.


----------



## martin vegas

Good dacs do make the soundstage bigger, it's not just headphones and amps/headphone amps speakers that make the soundstage bigger..it's just a shame that they don't carry through a surround sound signal!


----------



## chicolom

1llest said:


> Yeah it looks like something is off but I dont know what it is! Everything works fine when just using the mixamp but when I add the m-stage after the mixamp then everything changes.
> 
> xbox 360 > astro mixamp 2013 edition.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't have the 2013 mixamp.  I use my M-stage with the Mixamp 5.8 and the Ear Force DSS v1, and it works great with both of them.
  
 Try testing your M-stage on your computer by listening to some binaural audio/virtual surround sound videos with it and then compare it to your soundcard/motherboard audio HP jack or a USB DAC.  See if adding the M-stage still screws up the positioning with compared to the un-amped audio.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> Can I replace the stock X1 cable with the BoomPro???


 
  
 Absolutely. The stock cable is detachable on the X1, so you can use pretty much any cable you want.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> Absolutely. The stock cable is detachable on the X1, so you can use pretty much any cable you want.


Damn. Just when I was thinking about buying the cheaper CAL 2 or the PLYR1.......

Has MLE commented on the new CAL 2? I would also like a pair of closed headphones. CAL 2 and the DT770 might fit the bill.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes me wanna rebuy the X1 and Boompro. I grow tired of the cable clutter that is the the clip on mic + headphones. The DX clip on cable is VERY easy to tangle too. GAH. Why, oh why couldn't my ears do well with some mid bass, god?

After more use with the 1840 with gaming, I went back to my MA900 (since the 1840 isn't efficient enough when using voice chat, and I was playing with my friend), the MA900 truly showcases how bassy it can actually get. I called in several helicopters in CoD Ghosts's multiplayer, and boy... DAT RUMBLE.


Also, using the 1840 pads on the MA900 later on reinforced my belief that the MA900's drivers are just repurposed XB1000 drivers, with mitigated bass due to design differences everywhere else. Now that's just an assumption, but the MA900 even with fully breathable velour like the 1840's pads is super potent in bass, even with that cavity.


I read from Innerfidelity that the CAL2 is inferior to the CAL. Stated by Tyll himself. I trust his judgement.


----------



## Simarilli

Okay, new input desired: I've now read that it's possible to power the DT990 Pro 80s acceptably with a Xonar DG, leaving me the option to upgrade the amp later. The other options are the AD700[x] and AKG K612, which I haven't seen a great deal about in terms of competitive FPS use. Can anyone here comment on their quality for that as opposed to the Beyer/ATs?
  
 Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I assume you meant 770 pro 80s. The Pro 80s are efficient (as far as the 770/880/990 goes, it's the most efficient, even moreso than the 32ohm), but they STILL desire proper amping. The DG seems to be an internal soundcard version of the U3, which I can easily tell you is a VERY weak source. I don't recommend it on anything but the most sensitive of headphones. It has a crappy internal amp.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Original CAL better than the CAL 2? Sucks but I guess that's a good thing for me since the CAL is going for $79.99 right now @ Amazon.
  
 Seems like I'm down to either X1 or the original CAL then. I'm guessing the X1 has superior sound but the CAL still sounds good and are also closed cans which are a plus for me when I game at night. Hmmm....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is a noticeable step above the CAL, but for the price range, not much that compares to the CAL.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is a noticeable step above the CAL, but for the price range, not much that compares to the CAL.


 
 Would I need an amp for the CAL or X1? I have the ZXR sound card for my PC so I'm good there. I don't have another amp to use for my PS4/XB1 though. I only have the original DSS.
  
 Last question. would you recommend the PLYR1 over the CAL or X1 for console gaming at all? I like that they are wireless.
  
 Just noticed the original CAL just dropped to $75 on Amazon.


----------



## Simarilli

mad lust envy said:


> I assume you meant 770 pro 80s. The Pro 80s are efficient (as far as the 770/880/990 goes, it's the most efficient, even moreso than the 32ohm), but they STILL desire proper amping. The DG seems to be an internal soundcard version of the U3, which I can easily tell you is a VERY weak source. I don't recommend it on anything but the most sensitive of headphones. It has a crappy internal amp.


 
  
 Wow, this reply made me realise that this listing was wrong. I was wondering why I couldn't find any comparisons of the 80 ohm model with the others :v
  
 So, K612 or AD700[x] it is. Do you have any experience/know anyone I might pester for information about K612s for comp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Both the X1 and CAL are efficient headphones, the CAL even more so. I suggest at least a portable amp for both, though for gaming purposes, it's not completely necessary. I dunno about the ZXR's output impedance which may alter the balance of the headphones negatively. may not be an issue overall, but it's possible. If you're gonna spend that much for an X1, don't do it a disservice by attaching it to underwhelming sources. The CAL is a safe bet for minimal amping, output impedance mismatch aside.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Both the X1 and CAL are efficient headphones, the CAL even more so. I suggest at least a portable amp for both, though for gaming purposes, it's not completely necessary. I dunno about the ZXR's output impedance which may alter the balance of the headphones negatively. may not be an issue overall, but it's possible. If you're gonna spend that much for an X1, don't do it a disservice by attaching it to underwhelming sources. The CAL is a safe bet for minimal amping, output impedance mismatch aside.


 
 I just ordered the CAL. I'll look into buying the X1 at a later when when I can afford a proper amp.
  
 I don't think you saw my last question in regards to the PLYR1. Would you recommend that over the CAL for console gaming or should I stick with the cheaper CAL?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL is a better sounding headphone. The PLYR1 is good with the extra benefit of being wireless. The CAL is GREAT, sounds better, and is more comfortable.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The CAL is a better sounding headphone. The PLYR1 is good with the extra benefit of being wireless. The CAL is GREAT, sounds better, and is more comfortable.


Thanks a lot for your time MLE. Can't wait to have a listen to the CAL.


----------



## rudyae86

So i guess my question was answered about the Beyer COPs not being a headphone suitable for gaming..?

Im still not sure wther to buy them or not. Some say they are good, some say not good. I like them because they dont require amping, since i dont want to buy an amp yet and just want to get a mix amp pro. 

Plus i like that the COPs can detach the cable and i could buy the boom mic from v moda, which is 30 bucks cheaper than beyers gooseneck mic.

Plus i wont be using it for just gaming but for music as well. more of a versitile headset i guess


----------



## 1llest

Fidelio X1 with the V Moda Boom Pro Mic


----------



## rudyae86

Thats pretty good. X1 and boom mic...too bad thats over my budget ...


----------



## 1llest

chicolom said:


> I don't have the 2013 mixamp.  I use my M-stage with the Mixamp 5.8 and the Ear Force DSS v1, and it works great with both of them.
> 
> Try testing your M-stage on your computer by listening to some binaural audio/virtual surround sound videos with it and then compare it to your soundcard/motherboard audio HP jack or a USB DAC.  See if adding the M-stage still screws up the positioning with compared to the un-amped audio.


 
  
 I've tested it again and this time I had the M-Stage hooked up longer and noticed that the positinal queue is still there, just the fact that the soundstage is so big! and I wasn't used to that. I prefer the soundstage the mixamp provides.
 Can you recommend me an AMP that doesn't have as big as the soundstage like the M-Stage?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Awesome combo 1llest. Lucky guy.


----------



## 1llest

rudyae86 said:


> Thats pretty good. X1 and boom mic...too bad thats over my budget
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The boom pro is very good. Picks up the voice very well too! I don't have to talk as loud. Start saving! 
  


daddydc650 said:


> Awesome combo 1llest. Lucky guy.


 
  
 Thank you! I love them!


----------



## chicolom

1llest said:


> I've tested it again and this time I had the M-Stage hooked up longer and noticed that the positinal queue is still there, just the fact that *the soundstage is so big!* and I wasn't used to that.* I prefer the soundstage the mixamp provides.*
> 
> Can you recommend me an AMP that *doesn't have as big as the soundstage like the M-Stage? *


 
  
 You want a _smaller _soundstage?
  










  
 Well, pretty much any other amp under $250 will probably have a smaller soundstage than the M-stage.  E09K, Magni, O2, iCan, Asgard, etc.  Take your pick, as all are likely a bit smaller.
  
 I like the iCan for it useful sub-bass boost and 3D effect switches, both of which I use all the time.  It's a nice sounding amp, and it will be plenty powerful for the X1 (a Magni would probably be _too _powerful).  It also has 0.5 ohm output impedance, which is theoretically nice for controlling the 30 ohm X1s.


----------



## Change is Good

For smaller soundstage, the E12 and iCAN (on default) are my suggestions...


----------



## 1llest

chicolom said:


> You want a _smaller _soundstage?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not necessarily smaller, but something similar to the mixamp soundstage. I'll check out the iCan, Im curious how that 3D effect switches will sound with the mixamp. Thanks @chicolom 
  


change is good said:


> For smaller soundstage, the E12 and iCAN (on default) are my suggestions...


  
 Will give the iCan a try! 
  
  
  
  
  
 --
  
*Have any of you guys tried the X1 with the Vali?*


----------



## chicolom

If you go with the iCan, I recommend picking up some kind of outlet switch to go with it.  The iCan doesn't have a power switch, so you'll want an external switch to power it ON and OFF.  I wouldn't recommend simply yanking the cord out, because I have a theory that that kills the iCan's PSU after a while.


----------



## chicolom

1llest said:


>


 
  
  
 Wait, do you have TWO X1s??


----------



## rudyae86

^^ I actually meant as in getting the fidelio x1. The mic price is pretty good. Im still wondering if i should get the Beyer COPs althoigh i jave been told they wont be good for gaming. And getting the V moda boom mic as opposed to the beyer gooseneck, is actually cheaper and has in line controls as well..


----------



## 1llest

chicolom said:


> Wait, do you have TWO X1s??


 
  
 Yes I do lol, I thought it was broken at first so Amazon sent a replacement, might keep it because my lady loves it very much.
  
 Do you have any experience with the Schiit Vali? I wonder how it will pair with the X1.


----------



## Fegefeuer

After spending some time with the AKG I'm really surprised with it. First I was skeptical of them doing something years after the K701 and it's derivates, even suspected them being a former shadow of themselves (my father had the K340, K501) and just releasing their last best work forever and only being there for the name (for Harman's benefits). I appreciated the K701's technicalities and improvements with later models (I hated the headband) but after I left mid-fi towards HD 800 and Co. they weren't interesting anymore. While I still could hear that they stayed in the game very well it was no comparison. Sometimes I wanted to go back and build myself a sexy headset but the oval soundstage with a weak phantom center always stayed in every model. It just wasn't acceptable anymore to me.
  
 So now after years they bring out their K812 and ******* it's a superb headphone. I kinda understand the exotic "next-gen" remarks that were made in  the K812 thread as in easier-to-drive, much more efficient and to be honest I like it that way even when I am curious about the 2014 Violectrics that are coming up. As I mentioned there, future headphones are likely to follow that direction as in getting lighter and easier to drive. It's no threat for the amping world however, they can still continue as before, just with lesser gain in a few cases so all's fine.
  
 It looks like we have the big three again. Before it was K701, DT880 and HD 600/650. Today it's T1, HD 800 and K812 (although 5 years too late) only that the T1 loses out. Totally.
  
 It's a superb headphone and clearly Beyer's best but it got overshadowed by the HD 800 already for good reason, though not in worlds of course. Naturally we'd expect a headphone like the K812 to batter them all after 5 years of work but in reality it doesn't. This can be a dissapointment in an upgradist's eyes but the realist in me says it's all about nuances and incrementals in the high end but still you gotta reach there first (Hey Ultrasone and Grado!). What I can definitely say as a conclusion from my own experience that the K812 deserves to be on the same podest as the HD 800. Yep,  that's right. And there it is where they are battling it out to me.
  
 Bass: K812 bass is very detailed and doesn't lack the power or "physical presence" like the HD 800's (which is detailed as well but thinner, less exciting). In no way is the K812 a bassy headphone. In comparison with the Fostex it's pretty clear. No matter how much I love the Fostex though the bass detail really goes to the K812. Yep. It's pretty exciting for a open headphone with large soundstage to have such a delicate bass reproduction. 
  
 Beautiful Midrange: I always loved the HE-500 most for vocals and while the HD 800 did everything right in technical matters (as in authentic reproducing) it didn't have the same emotion but as it's a very neutral headphone it is uncolored and you may not like it. The K812 is similar as in uncolored but I prefered it for voices somehow. Actually I was amazed and expect something going on there. They are authentic as a neutral reference headphone should be (though admittely music is made for speakers) but still a hint more euphonic. Harmonics? I don't know. 
  
 High and Details: both are marvellous and at the same time unforgiving, both can annoy you with ancient black metal. Both are not sharp as a T90 or a Pro Ultrasone. In no case. That tizzyness is overstated to me (unless you really listen to a lot off mediocre recored stuff, that's where both will dissapoint you) and if you look at the data of my amp you can't have something more neutral than that. And some of you know that I can be sensitive to fatigueing highs as the HE-400, T90, Pro (2)900 and others gave me.
  
 Soundstage: Here is where the Sennheiser still has the biggest size of all while not losing any cohorence. The AKG's is smaller but in no way inferior, in fact it would be the king if the HD 800 just died out. It's that good. No phantom center weakness, superb depth and layering, also having that weird 3d space effect (which I only had with the HD 800) where you turn around and wonder where that came from. AKG practically erased everything that was weak in the soundstage of their old ones.
  
 I could write much more but my English is not good enough. I had some other impressions German forums, I could maybe write up something more fluid sometime.
  
 Anyway, I did some gaming on them and unsurprisingly they were outstanding. Yes, the Fostex rumbles more and hits harder but the K812 is more authentic. I played 20 hours of Borderlands 2 + OpenAL on them and thank god for that game to actually not have bad samples, especially in its music. 
 Yes, there's the general thought that such headphones are overkill for gaming and I agree on that for sole gaming purposes (that would be crazy) but their technical superiority still can be noticed if the game samples allow.
  
 When the track "ICE" (nice exciting battle music) for instance appeared ingame the MMX 300 couldn't reproduce the bass textures as well, it was more of a 1-2 layer bass getting lost into one note while the K812 showed all layers in perfect balance (naturally the Fostex exaggerated here). Neither could the HE-500 loaner.
  
 All in all I think the ultimate dream of a universal headphone both for music and gaming/movies is the K812 before the HD 800.


----------



## chicolom

1llest said:


> Do you have any experience with the Schiit Vali? I wonder how it will pair with the X1.


 
  
 I don't.
  
 Keep in mind the Vali comes with a few caveats like tube microphonics and a less than stellar SNR (you _might _hear a faint background hiss with the X1s).  Also, a 6.5 ohm ouput impedance.
  
 IMO the X1s are already on the warm side with inoffensive treble, so I don't think they need any kind of tube smoothening.  That's something more popular with the highly detailed, neutral, and analytical sounding headphones.
  
 I think the X1s would pair better with a tight sounding solid state amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I agree. I feel the X1 could do with as much tightness and sharpening as it can get, usually off a good SS amp. I'd say the Vali probably wouldn't be ideal in any shape or form.


----------



## Chubtoad

mad lust envy said:


> I agree. I feel the X1 could do with as much tightness and sharpening as it can get, usually off a good SS amp. I'd say the Vali probably wouldn't be ideal in any shape or form.


 
 such as the cheaper magni? I kind of need a 2nd amp and don't want to spend as much as I did for the A2. I'm looking at possible portable amps as well such as the E18 (android compatible) or just an E11/12


----------



## Milhouse74

So I guess I need some help/advice. Moved my 360 and decided I wanted to get headphones since it's in my living room with no surround sound. Tried the Turtle Beach xp510's. Wasn't impressed. The surround and position was good but the sound wasn't. Bought the Astro A40's mostly to try out the mixamp to use with my own headphones, Vmoda M100's. Tried it out last night with COD. Sound quality overall was great, the positional sound wasn't good in my opinion. Is it an issue with those headphones? I will take a look at my set up tonight, but I'm not sure that's the issue. I will try the A40 phones as well to see a comparison. Should I go with different headphones? I went with the mixamp because I figure I won't get good sound quality from most console headphones. I see people using amps too with the mixamp. I have a Fiio E11 too would that make a difference and if so, how do you guys have it hooked up?


----------



## retiredat21

MLE or anyone, im going for your recommendation to connect a DAC/AMP combo with the Xonar u3.. i was just wondering if its ok if the result will be favorable if I use the fiio e18 instead of the fiio e17 because i want the extra functionality of it as an android amp.. please help me anyone.. thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

You might want to ask that question in the E18 thread... no one here has any experience with it that I know of...


----------



## retiredat21

mad lust envy said:


> Well, since neither are have optical dacs, you don't need to buy a dac/amp. The cheapest dac/amp with an optical input is the E17, FWIS. For now, you can just get an E11, which is actually a little more powerful than the E17, but has no dac.
> 
> Bear in mind, you will be double amping from the U3. All you're doing is amping the amped signal with a better output impedance, which will stabilize the X1's frequency response.
> 
> ...


 
 Looks like im gonna be going with the e17 then. . i just checked and the e18 is also USB dac... maybe id just get an ipod in the future... More questions.. do i need to buy anything else aside from the u3 and the e17 like cables to have it working with the laptop? This is actually my first time doing this and my first time buying a dac and amp so i really have no idea.. thank you!


----------



## chicolom

chubtoad said:


> such as the cheaper magni? I kind of need a 2nd amp and don't want to spend as much as I did for the A2. I'm looking at possible portable amps as well such as the E18 (android compatible) or just an E11/12


 

 Yeah, sort of.
  
  
  
 The only issue with the Magni is that it may be too powerful and have too high of a gain to use comfortably with the X1.  In other words, you will have to be careful with the volume as you may only be able to turn it up to 9-10 o'clock before it gets too loud, which isn't ideal because most amps have some channel imbalance issues in the early stage of their volume pots.  The sweet spot is more in the middle of the volume range, around 12 o'clock, which will likely be way to loud with the X1s. 
  
 Two workarounds are: 1) Lower the volume digitally in Windows, and 2) Stick attenuators at the back of the amp to lower the input signal.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650213/schiit-magni-to-much-power-for-32-ohm-headphones
  
  
 An amp like the O2 would have a more comfortable range on the volume pot.
  
  


milhouse74 said:


> Bought the Astro A40's mostly to try out the mixamp to use with my own headphones, Vmoda M100's. Tried it out last night with COD. Sound quality overall was great, the positional sound wasn't good in my opinion. Is it an issue with those headphones? I will take a look at my set up tonight, but I'm not sure that's the issue. I will try the A40 phones as well to see a comparison. Should I go with different headphones? I went with the mixamp because I figure I won't get good sound quality from most console headphones. I see people using amps too with the mixamp. I have a Fiio E11 too would that make a difference and if so, how do you guys have it hooked up?


 
  
 The M100s are basically closed and don't have the biggest soundstage, so they might not pair the best with the mixamp.  Try testing with the A40s for comparison.  The A40s have a medium sized soundstage and decent positioning.  I would eventually sell/return the A40s and just use the mixamp with a different pair of headphones though.
  
 Adding a FiiO E11 won't change much.  It won't affect the surround sound, and it's not that powerful of an amp anyways so you won't get much extra volume compared to just the mixamp.  I would skip double amping with the E11 and save that duty for a desktop amp.  You don't need to double amp anyways with your current headphones - that's only if you get harder to drive headphones later and need more volume.
  


retiredat21 said:


> MLE or anyone, im going for your recommendation to connect a DAC/AMP combo with the Xonar u3.. i was just wondering if its ok if the result will be favorable if I use the fiio e18 instead of the fiio e17 because i want the extra functionality of it as an android amp.. please help me anyone.. thanks!


 
  
 AFAIK the E18 doesn't have optical inputs like the E17, so it won't work with the U3.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> After spending some time with the AKG I'm really surprised with it. First I was skeptical of them doing something years after the K701 and it's derivates, even suspected them being a former shadow of themselves (my father had the K340, K501) and just releasing their last best work forever and only being there for the name (for Harman's benefits). I appreciated the K701's technicalities and improvements with later models (I hated the headband) but after I left mid-fi towards HD 800 and Co. they weren't interesting anymore. While I still could hear that they stayed in the game very well it was no comparison. Sometimes I wanted to go back and build myself a sexy headset but the oval soundstage with a weak phantom center always stayed in every model. It just wasn't acceptable anymore to me.
> 
> So now after years they bring out their K812 and ******* it's a superb headphone. I kinda understand the exotic "next-gen" remarks that were made in  the K812 thread as in easier-to-drive, much more efficient and to be honest I like it that way even when I am curious about the 2014 Violectrics that are coming up. As I mentioned there, future headphones are likely to follow that direction as in getting lighter and easier to drive. It's no threat for the amping world however, they can still continue as before, just with lesser gain in a few cases so all's fine.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Thanks Fegefeuer!  This is good stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I'm going to re-read the post a few times to let all the info sink in.
  
 One question:  Were you able to compare the HD800 and K812 _directly_, or are you comparing _from memory_?
  
  
 I like this line _"All in all I think the ultimate dream of a universal headphone both for music and gaming/movies is the K812 before the HD 800._"  I think that's what a lot of people want from the K812.  Sharing some similarities with the HD800 (great soundstage and detail) but trading some of the more "reference"/analytical traits for a more euphonic sound that's easier to live with and can apply to a wider range of genres (including games/movies). 
  
  
 Also, your English is nearly perfect/flawless, and if I didn't know any better I would (and did) assume you're from the US.  Your impressions are very good, perfectly readable and well-written, and more useful than a lot of impressions I've seen from "native" speakers.


----------



## retiredat21

Will the astro gaming mixamp pro alone drive the Fidelio X1 properly?


----------



## motorwayne

1llest said:


> Fidelio X1 with the V Moda Boom Pro Mic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Chubtoad

chicolom said:


> Yeah, sort of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So if the magni is to powerful then what does that mean for the asgard 2? Would it be way way to powerful and be no good? I generally have the volume pot at 9 o clock with the low gain switch on and that's usually good enough with the Annies. If I go past 10 it starts becoming to loud. On high gain mode I have the dial even lower because even at 9 it starts becoming to loud. 

Do all amps have channel imbalance? I don't think I've noticed any or just don't know what to be listening for.


----------



## chicolom

chubtoad said:


> So if the magni is to powerful then what does that mean for the asgard 2? Would it be way way to powerful and be no good? I generally have the volume pot at 9 o clock with the* low gain switch* on and that's usually good enough with the Annies. If I go past 10 it starts becoming to loud. On high gain mode I have the dial even lower because even at 9 it starts becoming to loud.
> 
> Do all amps have channel imbalance? I don't think I've noticed any or just don't know what to be listening for.


 
  
  
 The Asgard 2 would fare better, because it has the low gain switch.  The Magni doesn't have any gain switches and it is permanently set to close-to-high gain.
  
 Here are the specs on the gain for them:
  
*Asgard 2*
 Gain*: *High = 6 (15.6db) or Low = 1.5 (3.5db), via rear switch
  
*Magni*
 Gain*: *5 (14db)
  
 For reference, the X1s need about 1 or 1.5 o'clocks less than the Anniversaries.
  
 All analog pots have some channel imbalance but it's usually only audible in the _very early_ stages (like only during the first o'clock or less).  So once your at listening level it's usually fine.  Amps with digital volume pots or stepped attenuators (the ones that click through the positions) don't have any issues.


----------



## Chubtoad

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think that kind of settles it for me then. I'll just switch between the headphones as needed and do some more research on portable amp/dacs. It seems with android I'm somewhat more limited as everything was geared towards apple products but there are some new devices out now that I've been reading about.

Fiio e18
JDS labs c5d
Cyphertheorem 720


----------



## NamelessPFG

fegefeuer said:


> After spending some time with the AKG I'm really surprised with it. First I was skeptical of them doing something years after the K701 and it's derivates, even suspected them being a former shadow of themselves (my father had the K340, K501) and just releasing their last best work forever and only being there for the name (for Harman's benefits). I appreciated the K701's technicalities and improvements with later models (I hated the headband) but after I left mid-fi towards HD 800 and Co. they weren't interesting anymore. While I still could hear that they stayed in the game very well it was no comparison. Sometimes I wanted to go back and build myself a sexy headset but the oval soundstage with a weak phantom center always stayed in every model. It just wasn't acceptable anymore to me.
> 
> So now after years they bring out their K812 and ******* it's a superb headphone. I kinda understand the exotic "next-gen" remarks that were made in  the K812 thread as in easier-to-drive, much more efficient and to be honest I like it that way even when I am curious about the 2014 Violectrics that are coming up. As I mentioned there, future headphones are likely to follow that direction as in getting lighter and easier to drive. It's no threat for the amping world however, they can still continue as before, just with lesser gain in a few cases so all's fine.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You just HAD to get my headphone curiosity fired up again...
  
 ...however, it's a US$1500 MSRP headphone, same as the HD800, and thus well out of my price range. Even my Stax setups didn't cross the $850 line, and that's mainly with an SRM-T1 in the overall figure taking up more than half the cost.
  
 Chances are that even with all the talk of the K812 being more efficient, I'd still want something like a Gilmore Lite (the one dynamic amp spritzer considered "entry-level", blowing away everything in its price range and below if he's to be believed) backing it, just to be sure, and that's at least another $500 if I can even find one on the used market.


----------



## 1llest

motorwayne said:


>





> How do these sound with the Titanium X-Fi HD? I want to replace my K240 MKII's for gaming.
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 It works fine and sounds good out of the Titanium HD.
  


retiredat21 said:


> Will the astro gaming mixamp pro alone drive the Fidelio X1 properly?


 
  
 Yes it will, I usually have the volume set to about 75% with the game/voice pot to 11 o clock and it sounds pretty loud already.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

I am absolutely torn between the Q701's and DT990 Pro 250's, I've been reading here for over a week and just can't make my decision.  Hoping you all can help me to make my decision, here are my constraints, facts, and plans:
  
 - The best headphones I have ever owned are $10 earbuds, seriously.  This is my first good pair and I'm really looking forward to them.
 - These will be used 99.9% of the time for gaming, primarily FPS games like Battlefield 4 (Titanfall, The Division, etc.) in the future.
 - The DT990 Pro 250's are $50 cheaper and I am on as tight of a budget as possible
 - My sound card will be the Sound Blaster Z
 - I will have to budget on my amp, I am thinking something like the O2 or Fiio E9
  
 Questions I am looking to finally answer:
  
 1) Which headphones should I go for, given the above? 
 2) Any other recommendations on sound card within the <$80 range?  Or is the Sound Blaster Z the way to go with this pricepoint?
 3) Any recommendations on a different amp within the < $125 range?  If not, does the O2 or E9 match up better to the headphones you chose?


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> Thanks Fegefeuer!  This is good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey Chico, thanks.
  
 Yes, I had one and a half day to compare. The HD 800 I received was just how I experienced it in 1k hours.
  
 Tradeoff sounds negative in a way (I know you don't mean it), don't interpret it that way. The K812 is still very neutral and extremely accurate/detailed. To me it wins with midrange and bass making it more universal for more genres (EDM for instance is much better than on the HD 800) but its speciality really shines with anything that is acoustic (or let's say real instruments) and needs accurate reproduction to sound "life-like" (I hate that term, you know what I mean). You'll love it. Drums are mighty impressive with the AKG. 
  
 btw: Hifiman HE-560 did get lighter and easier to amp just as Dr.Fang promised at the High End 2013 when I asked him personally so the "next gen" remarks of others are spot on.


----------



## conquerator2

inhartwetrust said:


> I am absolutely torn between the Q701's and DT990 Pro 250's, I've been reading here for over a week and just can't make my decision.  Hoping you all can help me to make my decision, here are my constraints, facts, and plans:
> 
> - The best headphones I have ever owned are $10 earbuds, seriously.  This is my first good pair and I'm really looking forward to them.
> - These will be used 99.9% of the time for gaming, primarily FPS games like Battlefield 4 (Titanfall, The Division, etc.) in the future.
> ...


 
 I'd recommend the DT990 as the safer choice for your first audiophile headphone, especially if used mostly for immersive FPS gaming. The Q701 will give you less bass and better positional accuracy but less immersion than the DT990. The DTs do have a bit of a treble spike though.
 The problem is they are both somewhat different, the DT990 being slightly U shaped [more bass & treble, less mids] and the Q701 being more of an N shaped headphone [less bass, more mids & treble].
 I'd still probably go for the DT990 solely for gaming though [Can't you get the Philips Fidelio X1 for a similar price? I think that'd be the best fit for you]
 O2 is probably the best amp, more neutral. The E9 is warmer but IT DOES NOT synergize well with the AKGs in general so the O2 is a  more versatile option. The Xonar DX/XD is a very good choice, cheaper too. Has a good DAC in it.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

conquerator2 said:


> I'd recommend the DT990 as the safer choice for your first audiophile headphone, especially if used mostly for immersive FPS gaming. The Q701 will give you less bass and better positional accuracy but less immersion than the DT990. The DTs do have a bit of a treble spike though.
> The problem is they are both somewhat different, the DT990 being slightly U shaped [more bass & treble, less mids] and the Q701 being more of an N shaped headphone [less bass, more mids & treble].
> I'd still probably go for the DT990 solely for gaming though [Can't you get the Philips Fidelio X1 for a similar price? I think that'd be the best fit for you]
> O2 is probably the best amp, more neutral. The E9 is warmer but IT DOES NOT synergize well with the AKGs in general so the O2 is a  more versatile option. The Xonar DX/XD is a very good choice, cheaper too. Has a good DAC in it.


 
  
 Thanks for the great response, dude.  I can get the DT990 Pro 250's for $150, the Q701's for $200, and I looked for the Philips Fidelio X1's and they are $250.  $250 is out of my  budget considering I still need to get the sound card and amp, too.


----------



## kman1211

inhartwetrust said:


> Thanks for the great response, dude.  I can get the DT990 Pro 250's for $150, the Q701's for $200, and I looked for the Philips Fidelio X1's and they are $250.  $250 is out of my  budget considering I still need to get the sound card and amp, too.


 

 With the DT 990 Pro, I personally wouldn't suggest it unless you have a tube or hybrid tube amp, they change drastically on tubes, far more musical and the midrange fills in and gains a lot of body while taking some edge off the highs. Something like the Schiit Vali will probably do well with the DT 990 Pro as well as the Q701. The O2 would probably be decent for the AKGs.


----------



## retiredat21

i have no idea how any of these options sound like. I have never used a headphone amp so please help me in choosing which combo i should buy.. im losing my mind.. help please... Its gonna be equally used for gaming and movies and maybe a little bit of music..

Xonar U3 + Fiio E6 + Fidelio X1 = cheapest, easy to use with an android device?

Xonar U3 +Fiio E17 + Fidelio X1= dac/amp combo

Xonar U3 + Fidelio E18 + Fidelio X1= functionality with android devices

Xonar U3 + Fiio E12 + Fidelio X1= just read from somewhere that the sound quality is good with this pairing

Xonar U3 + Fiio E11 + Fidelio X1= suggested by MLE


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, I don't remember recommending the E11 over the E17 if it was on the table.


----------



## retiredat21

You said if im just going amp e11 is a good choice. But dac/amp is ur ultimate recommendation so should i just get the e17 out of all the choices? And do i need to buy any additional cables to get it working with the u3?


----------



## InHartWeTrust

As a noob, this is an open ended question to all.  What all do I need to drive the DR990 250's *at minimum*? 
  
 Do I need a new sound card? 
 Do I then need a seperate amp? 
 Are there any sound cards that include a sufficient amp? 
 What is the necessity level of a DAC?
  
 I don't need perfection, I just want high performance audio (not the highest, just good) for my gaming.
  
 Suggestions for each would be welcome.
  
 Envy -  Do you have any thoughts on my question above re Q701's vs DT990's for gaming?
 Quote:


kman1211 said:


> With the DT 990 Pro, I personally wouldn't suggest it unless you have a tube or hybrid tube amp, they change drastically on tubes, far more musical and the midrange fills in and gains a lot of body while taking some edge off the highs. Something like the Schiit Vali will probably do well with the DT 990 Pro as well as the Q701. The O2 would probably be decent for the AKGs.


----------



## kman1211

inhartwetrust said:


>


 

 DACs make a pretty big difference in the sound, more so than the amp if the DAC isn't at least decent. So a new soundcard such as the Xonar DX or Soundblaster Z is what is suggested. A cheaper desktop amp such as the Vali, O2, Magni, E09K, etc is going to give either the DT 990 or Q701 the power they need, although synergy is another matter. The DT 990 can be driven off some computers to sufficient volumes, but it's going to suffer in terms of sound quality, the DT 990 tends to sound excessively hollow in mids when underamped or if it doesn't have the right synergy. The Q701 will be better for gaming overall of the two, but it wants a good dac and an amp more than the DT 990 Pro.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

kman1211 said:


> DACs make a pretty big difference in the sound, more so than the amp if the DAC isn't at least decent. So a new soundcard such as the Xonar DX or Soundblaster Z is what is suggested. A cheaper desktop amp such as the Vali, O2, Magni, E09K, etc is going to give either the DT 990 or Q701 the power they need, although synergy is another matter. The DT 990 can be driven off some computers to sufficient volumes, but it's going to suffer in terms of sound quality, the DT 990 tends to sound excessively hollow in mids when underamped or if it doesn't have the right synergy. The Q701 will be better for gaming overall of the two, but it wants a good dac and an amp more than the DT 990 Pro.


 

 Is the Fiio E17 an amp and DAC combo?  Or am I misunderstanding the product description?
  
 Would it sufficiently power both the Q701's and DT990's in combination with the Soundblaster Z?


----------



## kman1211

inhartwetrust said:


> Is the Fiio E17 an amp and DAC combo?  Or am I misunderstanding the product description?
> 
> Would it sufficiently power both the Q701's and DT990's in combination with the Soundblaster Z?


 

 I believe so, but I don't know the specifics of how it works.
  
 I wouldn't really suggest that with either the Q701 or the DT 990 if you want to get great performance for your money. I would get a desktop amp such as the Vali, Magni, 02, etc. with a soundcard instead if you want the most sound quality for your money. Neither headphone will sound as good on a portable amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E17 is not enough for either of those.


----------



## mikemav

Hey guys, I have the AKG K702 Annies and they are driven from a Marantz receiver (SR-5005) with Dolby Headphone. Does anyone know how the output power and sound quality of a receiver like this on the headphone jack compares to say the few suggestions most people make for lower budget desktop amps here to drive the notoriously power-hungry AKGs in the $100-250 range? Also I get some sources converted to DH directly via the receiver, as it will process all signals (like HDMI-embedded audio) into Dolby Headphone on the output. So it supports codecs the MixAmp and DSS do not, which is useful for console games (Xbox One DTS) and movies as well. Do I know double-amping isn't the best practice, but I don't believe there is another way to do this (no HDMI input, multi-codec surround-sound friendly headphone DACs out there, right?) Someone really needs to make a MixAmp with HDMI inputs and a digital DH output (for external DAC+amp) for the headphone community. I suspect it's the licensing fees to DTS and Dolby and the HDMI working group (along w/ limited market) that prevents my dream headphone processor so far. Anyway, if you could shed some light if I am not getting enough out of my Annies w/ the receiver, please let me know... 
  
 BTW MLE, I am the one who sold the MMX300's needing cable repair for cheap mentioned recently in this thread, so I hope you get a chance to review them (and sorry to you and the buyer that the pads looked a bit old and crusty!)


----------



## InHartWeTrust

mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is not enough for either of those.


 
 What would be the recommended amp for them then, with the $125 and under price bucket?  Desktop is 100% fine with me.  Is there a certain recommendation that tends to work best with the Q701 and one that works best with the DT990's?
  
 The more I read the more I get confused, so, I guess I'll just ask the experts here.


----------



## retiredat21

Oh my i just saw the schiit vali and modi combination and its quite within my budget..can i connect this with the xonar u3 to get dolby headphone and would you recommend this?


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> Oh my i just saw the schiit vali and modi combination and its quite within my budget..can i connect this with the xonar u3 to get dolby headphone and would you recommend this?


 
  
 Schiit Modi is USB only so if you wanted a better DAC than the one built into the U3 you'd have to get a different one from the Modi, one that accepts toslink. You could use the Vali with the U3 without issue. The Vali is a very capable amp for higher impedance headphones. I'd recommend the Magni with more sensitive ones. I have owned both, both are good at what they do.


----------



## InHartWeTrust

mad lust envy said:


> The E17 is not enough for either of those.


 
  
 I could just get the Phillip's X1's with no amp, would that be my simplest option?  That would be $250, the same as the DT990's + a $100 amp.
  
 That would hold me over longer and I could eventually add an amp down the road if I felt I needed to.  From Envy's review, it sounds like this would be my best set up if going ampless in the beginning.  I would pair with the Sound Blaster Z sound card.
  
 If this sound good to you Envy, I will be ordering tonight.


----------



## retiredat21

axelcloris said:


> Schiit Modi is USB only so if you wanted a better DAC than the one built into the U3 you'd have to get a different one from the Modi, one that accepts toslink. You could use the Vali with the U3 without issue. The Vali is a very capable amp for higher impedance headphones. I'd recommend the Magni with more sensitive ones. I have owned both, both are good at what they do.


 so do you think the vali and the u3 be enough to make the fidelio x1 sound good? Or is the dac/amp combo of the e17 + u3 be better?


----------



## retiredat21

Also can you answer this one question please any of you so i could just press checkout and be done with it... Do i need any other cables besides the ones included in the fiio e17 and the xonar u3 in order to use the spdif in and out? Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

I've never heard the E17 so I can't pass judgement on it. And while I've never heard the two together, there has been mention in the Vali thread that it pairs well with the X1 even though the X1 is only 30 ohm.
  
 With the E17/U3 combo you'd also need a toslink cable. The U3 and E17 both come with toslink adapters but not the cable itself.


----------



## TooManyHobbies

edit: whoops


----------



## TooManyHobbies

Sorry. Didn't realize I was quoting an old page disregard that response. Lol


----------



## retiredat21

axelcloris said:


> I've never heard the E17 so I can't pass judgement on it. And while I've never heard the two together, there has been mention in the Vali thread that it pairs well with the X1 even though the X1 is only 30 ohm.
> 
> With the E17/U3 combo you'd also need a toslink cable. The U3 and E17 both come with toslink adapters but not the cable itself.


 thanks for the response bro..ordered the mediabridge toslink i hope thats good enough.. im going to check how this setup will perform for gaming and movies.. maybe get the schiit combo next month..


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> thanks for the response bro..ordered the mediabridge toslink i hope thats good enough.. im going to check how this setup will perform for gaming and movies.. maybe get the schiit combo next month..


 
  
 Nope, not good enough. You need a $160 toslink cable. I kid, of course. The mediabridge should serve you well. Unless you have top of the line components throughout your system then you're fine using reasonably priced cables. I like the mini Schiit stacks and the Modi is a great upgrade to most sound cards. But you won't be using the Modi with the U3. You could always use the Modi for music, the U3/E17 dac for gaming, and a Schiit amp to run the headphones. A source selector will help greatly in that setup if you don't want to change wires often.


----------



## retiredat21

My god you got me nervous for a second there hahaha.. thanks for the suggestion about the schiit products (lol). probably going to be working my way up from there.Searching for the best sound is such a pain in the wallet and the mind x_x


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> My god you got me nervous for a second there hahaha.. thanks for the suggestion about the schiit products (lol). probably going to be working my way up from there.Searching for the best sound is such a pain in the wallet and the mind x_x


 
  
 Schiit is a great place to start. I love the company and what they do. And yes searching for your best sound may take a while and certainly a toll on your pocket. Just ask MattTCG, he's gone through a crazy amount of gear and we've both been here about the same amount of time. But hey, the baby Schiits may be all you ever need.


----------



## Milhouse74

milhouse74 said:


> So I guess I need some help/advice. Moved my 360 and decided I wanted to get headphones since it's in my living room with no surround sound. Tried the Turtle Beach xp510's. Wasn't impressed. The surround and position was good but the sound wasn't. Bought the Astro A40's mostly to try out the mixamp to use with my own headphones, Vmoda M100's. Tried it out last night with COD. Sound quality overall was great, the positional sound wasn't good in my opinion. Is it an issue with those headphones? I will take a look at my set up tonight, but I'm not sure that's the issue. I will try the A40 phones as well to see a comparison. Should I go with different headphones? I went with the mixamp because I figure I won't get good sound quality from most console headphones. I see people using amps too with the mixamp. I have a Fiio E11 too would that make a difference and if so, how do you guys have it hooked up?




So if the M100's aren't going to work for positional audio, what headphones would be recommended. X1's? I want good sound but really I want to hear that positional audio effect. Really just gaming on the 360 with the mixamp. If they're good enough, I might listen to music on my iPhone with the E11.....I do like my M100's for that. Fun headphones


----------



## retiredat21

axelcloris said:


> Schiit is a great place to start. I love the company and what they do. And yes searching for your best sound may take a while and certainly a toll on your pocket. Just ask MattTCG, he's gone through a crazy amount of gear and we've both been here about the same amount of time. But hey, the baby Schiits may be all you ever need.


 
 I really hope that the schiits would satisfy my needs (makes me smile whenever i type that lol) ... because if I get that audiophile disease, i wont be able to afford a house anytime soon..


----------



## InHartWeTrust

inhartwetrust said:


> I could just get the Phillip's X1's with no amp, would that be my simplest option?  That would be $250, the same as the DT990's + a $100 amp.
> 
> That would hold me over longer and I could eventually add an amp down the road if I felt I needed to.  From Envy's review, it sounds like this would be my best set up if going ampless in the beginning.  I would pair with the Sound Blaster Z sound card.
> 
> If this sound good to you Envy, I will be ordering tonight.


 
  
 Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## 1llest

inhartwetrust said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on this?


 
  
 I thought the X1 sounded good from just an iPhone, It also sounded good from my Titanium HD but obviously a good amp will be better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X1 off the E17 sounds swell. It does sound tighter and sharper with a desktop amp though. Going from the E17 to the Compass 2 tightened verything up, and made the bass more bearable for my mid bass sensitive ears.


----------



## Tyco3000

Hey there been looking at this guide for quite some time, so I am thinking to get another gaming headphone. Here are my choices Dt990, pc360, Q701,mmx 300 I am having a dilemma and can't decide I want something that's good gaming and music. How would you compare these headsets? Also what's a cheap amp to drive them? ( under 100)


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> I really hope that the schiits would satisfy my needs (makes me smile whenever i type that lol) ... because if I get that audiophile disease, i wont be able to afford a house anytime soon..


 
  
 Sure you can. I'm infected, stage 2, and I'm house hunting currently. It's completely possible. Just skip the 3 car garage for a 2 car.


----------



## mrots

hey i have a question  im looking for new headphones for my laptop im not competative i just wanna be immersed with sound! i was wondering do you think the dt 770 250ohm orrrr 990 250ohm or ma-900s?  also listen to alot of bassy music and love watching moooovies <3 any help is greatly appreciated considering this will be my biggest purchase for headphones ever


----------



## conquerator2

mrots said:


> hey i have a question  im looking for new headphones for my laptop im not competative i just wanna be immersed with sound! i was wondering do you think the dt 770 250ohm orrrr 990 250ohm or ma-900s?  also listen to alot of bassy music and love watching moooovies <3 any help is greatly appreciated considering this will be my biggest purchase for headphones ever




If you are using a laptop, the 250 ohms are a no go.
I'd recommend the MA900, as it's a great headphone anyway.


----------



## mrots

not even with a portable amp / dac the 770/250 no go?  i have a alienware 17


----------



## PurpleAngel

tyco3000 said:


> Hey there been looking at this guide for quite some time, so I am thinking to get another gaming headphone. Here are my choices Dt990, pc360, Q701,mmx 300 I am having a dilemma and can't decide I want something that's good gaming and music. How would you compare these headsets? Also what's a cheap amp to drive them? ( under 100)


 
 It might be helpful to know what sources your plugging the headphones into?
 AMP & DAC?


----------



## mrots

ummm not sure what sources do you think would be suitable for the 770 250ohm cause i really want these headphones XD best headphones i ever had was dr dre 1st gen beats pro but sold them didnt think they were all that amazing for 400 bucks


----------



## conquerator2

mrots said:


> ummm not sure what sources do you think would be suitable for the 770 250ohm cause i really want these headphones XD best headphones i ever had was dr dre 1st gen beats pro but sold them didnt think they were all that amazing for 400 bucks


 
 The Fiio E09k + the E07k as a DAC is the basic thing you can get I get. If anyone knows of a cheaper option, chime in.


----------



## Nokami

Ive got an AD700X and i enjoy it much, but the AD900X is only about ~30$ more..
  
 Should i upgrade to the 900X? I play CS:GO Competetive only, i dont care about Music.
 I use an Xonar DX, might "Downgrade" to an DGX for an low budget AMP


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stick with the AD700x. The 900s are known to perform worse for competitive gaming.


----------



## HELDERZINHO

I have a question for people that play FPS including COD Ghost on PS3, what's best Tritton Ax 720+ or Creative Aurvana Live + Mixamp, i play multiplayer mode and my budget isn't very high 150$/200$ +/- or have you any suggestion for that budget? Position and footsteps is the most important. 
 Sorry my bad english i'm portuguese.
  
 Thank You


----------



## chicolom

helderzinho said:


> I have a question for people that play FPS including COD Ghost on PS3, what's best Tritton Ax 720+ or Creative Aurvana Live + Mixamp, i play multiplayer mode and my budget isn't very high 150$/200$ +/- or have you any suggestion for that budget? Position and footsteps is the most important.
> Sorry my bad english i'm portuguese.
> 
> Thank You


 
  
  
 I'd get this:
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
  
 You get arguably the best iteration of the mixamp in terms of sound quality, plus a FREE Astro A30 headset (which is supposedly decent).  That gives everything you need to get started.
  
 Later on you can add a nice open headphone using the money you saved.
  
 .


----------



## mikemav

Sorry to bump, but really curious if anyone has any thoughts on the ability of a Marantz receiver's headphone out powering the AKG Annies vs. a desktop amp per my question earlier: 
 Hey guys, I have the AKG K702 Annies and they are driven from a Marantz receiver (SR-5005) with Dolby Headphone. Does anyone know how the output power and sound quality of a receiver like this on the headphone jack compares to say the few suggestions most people make for lower budget desktop amps here to drive the notoriously power-hungry AKGs in the $100-250 range?


----------



## chicolom

mikemav said:


> Sorry to bump, but really curious if anyone has any thoughts on the ability of a Marantz receiver's headphone out powering the AKG Annies vs. a desktop amp per my question earlier:
> Hey guys, I have the AKG K702 Annies and they are driven from a Marantz receiver (SR-5005) with Dolby Headphone. Does anyone know how the output power and sound quality of a receiver like this on the headphone jack compares to say the few suggestions most people make for lower budget desktop amps here to drive the notoriously power-hungry AKGs in the $100-250 range?


 
  
 I'd expect a budget desktop amp to be a side-grade or even down-grade compared to that receiver.


----------



## HELDERZINHO

chicolom said:


> I'd get this:
> http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
> 
> You get arguably the best iteration of the mixamp in terms of sound quality, plus a FREE Astro A30 headset (which is supposedly decent).  That gives everything you need to get started.
> ...


 

 I'm from Portugal I think that they only sell for USA, but it's a great price.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Hey Chico, thanks.
> 
> Yes, I had one and a half day to compare. The HD 800 I received was just how I experienced it in 1k hours.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm still a little on the fence regarding K812 vs HD800. 
  
 I see people preferring one over the other on both sides.  When Tyll dropped the "tizzy" bomb, people got quite riled up.  Jude still hasn't posted anything on them apart form his initial impressions, which were very positive (he also mentioned that he didn't notice any tizziness).
  
 There seems to be a consensus forming that the HD800 is still more detailed and resolving, and has the larger soundstage (areas where it beats _most_ headphones apart from perhaps things like the SR-009, etc.).  If the K812 makes up for it in other areas, I guess I'm OK with that.  The K812 doesn't seem to measure quite as well, but than again _most_ _headphones _don't measure as well as the HD800 (detail/resolution and measuring well are sort what the HD800 is known for), so I'm not _overly _concerned with that.
  
 It sounds like between bass/mids/treble you feel the K812 wins 2/3, with the HD800 still edging ahead with soundstage.  Do you notice any upper mid peakiness/resonance on the K812?  The graphs almost looked like it shared some of the infamous 2 khz bump found on the x70x drivers.
  
 I know you sort of already said this, but am I correct in assuming that if you could only live with one...you'd choose the K812?
  
  
 I won't be able to pick either of them up for a while, as I spent those funds on a much-needed PC upgrade.  So that gives me time to wait for more reviews/impressions to surface.


----------



## AxelCloris

Saw this on the web. It's the opening for a PS Vita cooking game called Deka Mori Senran Kagura. I'm so confused, and the opening is definitely out there. But boy does it make me want to pick up a Vita. 
  


Spoiler: Potentially NSFW


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> Saw this on the web. It's the opening for a PS Vita cooking game called Deka Mori Senran Kagura. I'm so confused, and the opening is definitely out there. But boy does it make me want to pick up a Vita.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Potentially NSFW




 I call anime cross hentai intro!


----------



## PurpleAngel

mikemav said:


> Sorry to bump, but really curious if anyone has any thoughts on the ability of a Marantz receiver's headphone out powering the AKG Annies vs. a desktop amp per my question earlier:
> Hey guys, I have the AKG K702 Annies and they are driven from a Marantz receiver (SR-5005) with Dolby Headphone. Does anyone know how the output power and sound quality of a receiver like this on the headphone jack compares to say the few suggestions most people make for lower budget desktop amps here to drive the notoriously power-hungry AKGs in the $100-250 range?


 
 My $500 Yamaha RX-V671 A/V receiver seems to do a fairly decent job of driving my headphones.
 I would assume you would spend a lot more then you would like, for a DAC/amp, to be able to make a noticeable improvement, over the Marantz SR-5005.


----------



## Naingolann

axelcloris said:


> Saw this on the web. It's the opening for a PS Vita cooking game called Deka Mori Senran Kagura. I'm so confused, and the opening is definitely out there. But boy does it make me want to pick up a Vita.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Potentially NSFW




  
 Delicious.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## SaLX

naingolann said:


> Delicious.


----------



## TMRaven

What a pervy game.  Makes me hate anybody who likes or creates that stuff.


----------



## miceblue

tmraven said:


> What a pervy game.  Makes me hate anybody who likes or creates that stuff.



Likewise...that's just disturbing. It's bad enough with the Oculus stuff I've seen around. :/

I want to try Mirror's Edge on the Oculus though.

Wait, I just watched that. What in the serious f did I just watch? D:
*puke*


----------



## chicolom

Extreme jiggle physics.


----------



## skyforger

I much prefer the stereo over the dolby in the examples you linked. Using the dt770 80ohms paired with a fiio e10. Maybe it's because they are closed and don't have enough soundstage to take advantage of the features.
  
 Ah well, will know soon as I am about to order an open pair. Can't decide between beyer 880s, beyer 990s, fidelio x1 or senn hd598's. I would love a pair that both fitted my music and gaming, though it seems to be difficult. Heavy melodic metal and gaming are far apart I guess.


----------



## mrots

i know how you feel i love metal and i love gaming XD i cant decided between the 770 and 990 both 250 ohms much less if i should get a e17 for the dac or just get the e12 not sure i game on my alienware 18 dunno if i need a dac or not


----------



## retiredat21

Has anybody here played with a creative sound blaster omni surround 5.1? looks good.. wonder if its better than the u3.. it also has optical out..


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> Has anybody here played with a creative sound blaster omni surround 5.1? looks good.. wonder if its better than the u3.. it also has optical out..


 
  
 I believe @Evshrug has the Omni currently, if I'm not mistaken. If you're going optical out to another DAC then all you care about is getting the Dolby Headphone from the U3, and if it does that portion just as well as the Omni then there's no reason to spend the extra. But if you're using the DAC in the Omni, it's better than the one in the U3, yes.


----------



## retiredat21

Plan is to use the U3 then connect a fiio e17 then a Fidelio X1.. but if this sound blaster usb is enough or decent enough to power the Headphones then i could save quite a bit..


----------



## Evshrug

mikemav said:


> Hey guys, I have the AKG K702 Annies and they are driven from a Marantz receiver (SR-5005) with Dolby Headphone.



Did we answer this before?
A few of us have used receivers with our headphones, mine was probably cheapest of all but it did a great job even compared next to my other dedicated headphone SS amps. Mad Lust had either that model you have now or a slightly lower-end model (Marantz just doesn't make really low-end stuff), I think it was even during the time he had the Annies, and he wrote comments such as "more refined," "effortless power," and I think "smooth." I think it would've been a fairly endgame component for him if his second-hand model hadn't crapped out and died on him. So yeah, it is a good pairing for the Annies. It also seems like you understand a lot of the benefits of the receiver over a stand-alone device... If I had more money I'd myself like to track down a model like yours in good shape.




axelcloris said:


> I believe @Evshrug
> has the Omni currently, if I'm not mistaken. If you're going optical out to another DAC then all you care about is getting the Dolby Headphone from the U3, and if it does that portion just as well as the Omni then there's no reason to spend the extra. But if you're using the DAC in the Omni, it's better than the one in the U3, yes.



I do, I'm just down in South Carolina visiting my dad and step-mom on a vacation/delayed holidays trip. The Omni has the same surround processing as all the internal soundcards, so if you use external components then there's no real advantage to a higher-end model, and in that scenario the only thing to pick between Asus Xonar U3 vs Creative Soundblaster Omni would be personal preference between Dolby Headphone vs SBX (and cost), but if you need to use the DAC or Amp of the unit then the Omni has superior quality that would be noticeable.

Jury's still out on a comparison to the SB Z, and if the volume knob detracts from audio quality like the ACM module does... I think the volume knob just changes the setting of Windows volume anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the SR5002 is what I had, and I was very happy with the Annie off that alone. I'm sad that mine crapped out. It was fantastic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...





I'm aware of all the spoilers, but the 1840 entry has double the scores due to the pad swap. Also experimenting with some layout changes...


----------



## Stanfoo

I can't decide between the Sennheiser PC360 or the K702 65th Anniversary Edition headphone.
  
 My main purpose is for PC gaming. The PC360 seems like the ideal headphone for me but it does not have surround sound. I'm not that knowledgeable about surround sound but it's important for gaming, is it not?


----------



## miceblue

Nice review Mad Lust.

Personally I didn't like the SRH1840 for just music (I dunno about gaming). The bass is textured, Shure, but I heard it as an unnatural texture and the tonality was really wonky to my ears.
The treble overall is pretty good but there's a peak at around 8-9 kHz that just got really annoying to me with snare drum hits just like the K 701 (8-bump headband). At least the 10 kHz range wasn't too bad unlike the HE-500, but the sizzle was definitely more than the K 701.


----------



## chicolom

stanfoo said:


> The PC360 seems like the ideal headphone for me but it does not have surround sound. I'm not that knowledgeable about surround sound but it's important for gaming, is it not?


 
  
 Surround sound is separate from the headphones.  It's done through processing on the PC.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

miceblue said:


> Nice review Mad Lust.
> 
> Personally I didn't like the SRH1840 for just music (I dunno about gaming). The bass is textured, Shure, but I heard it as an unnatural texture and the tonality was really wonky to my ears.
> The treble overall is pretty good but there's a peak at around 8-9 kHz that just got really annoying to me with snare drum hits just like the K 701 (8-bump headband). At least the 10 kHz range wasn't too bad unlike the HE-500, but the sizzle was definitely more than the K 701.




Yeah Mice, the bass has an audible distortion that if you listen closely enough is apparent. It sounds like low ringing that runs parallel with the bass at times. This is why i honestly can't score it higher. When I'm gaming, it isn't noticeable much and I ain't focused on that, but with music.... I can tell.

Like I mentioned, I think it works best at moderate to low volume, because it can sound quite artificial at higher volumes, expecially the treble, and the bass distortions.

My final review scores mostly reflect gaming prowess, which is why I still consider it very good (a headphone can sound unnatural as hell, but very detailed, so it'd still work). Otherwise... it's overpriced, and it needs some fixing, for sure.

Is that your pic?


----------



## Change is Good

Nice detailed review... though I may disagree on a couple things. You do seem to critique its slight flaws more often than not... and to me it came off as making these not really up to par. I mean, is the 1840 really that average? Or are my ears bad? I mean, I did prefer it (for its purpose) over the K712 side by side... and not just for gaming. These handled classical and jazz (to my ears) better than the AKGs. I also found the bass quantity to be between the Q701 and K712, not less than the Q. As for the distlortion, I can't really comment much on it because I never use them for bassy genres enough to notice. Oh well 

I do, however, agree that these don't fit the $500 price tag. But don't we also agree that neither do the Annies/K712 (their price on razordog before discount)? One can find the 1840 at the same discounted price as those two at around $375-$400... if one were to search well enough and not just rely on Amazon. I bought mine at that price, though it was around the holidays.

But either way this is some great writing and mostly spot on.

Can't wait till they get back home. Man, do I miss them lol. Lmk when you're ready for the 1540


----------



## Chubtoad

Alright, so I finally ordered the X1's, and I am a little worried because I have been digging through the X1 thread on these forums and I came across some posts about "bass light" versions of the X1? what the hell? I really hope its not some kind of bad quality control on philips part where not all the headphones are built in the same way, or was the guy posting just not making any sense? I remember something about the beyerdynamic's being kind of random in some models being kind of a gamble on what type of bass you get?
  
 I can't be sending headphones back and forth with the US amazon at $43.00 of import/duty fees.
  
  
 Also I read about swapping out the stock cable, would a monoprice cable be fine or should i be looking at something else? 
  
 normal - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021816&p_id=9765&seq=1&format=2
  
 premium - http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021812&p_id=5577&seq=1&format=2
  
 would the premium or normal be a better fit? 
  
 does anybody use a coiled cable from mediabridge such as this? http://www.amazon.ca/Mediabridge-COILED-Stereo-accomodates-smartphone/dp/B0088YE97A/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1389288054&sr=8-15&keywords=mediabridge+3.5mm


----------



## Evshrug

Chub,
Most of the time, bass loss comes from a poor seal, so make sure the pads are resting on your head without gaps and the driver is positioned right over the entrance to your inner ear. That said, duds aren't impossible... but you could try taking it up with Phillips under the manufacturer's warranty if something seems clearly amiss. I am not familiar with the best practices for products imported to Europe, but I just wanted to suggest an option. For all I've read about the X1 (not a ton, I admit), there aren't common mentions of performance variances like there is with different samples of DT770, so you ought to be fine.


----------



## AxelCloris

miceblue said:


> The bass is textured, Shure, but I heard...


 
  
 I giggled.


----------



## Chubtoad

evshrug said:


> Chub,
> Most of the time, bass loss comes from a poor seal, so make sure the pads are resting on your head without gaps and the driver is positioned right over the entrance to your inner ear. That said, duds aren't impossible... but you could try taking it up with Phillips under the manufacturer's warranty if something seems clearly amiss. I am not familiar with the best practices for products imported to Europe, but I just wanted to suggest an option. For all I've read about the X1 (not a ton, I admit), there aren't common mentions of performance variances like there is with different samples of DT770, so you ought to be fine.


 
 And what about the cables? are any of those 3 I linked fine? I don't know what the ohm resistance is, all I have read is that the stock one is to high at 1.8 or so.


----------



## motorwayne

These cables have a lot to answer for I tell you!


----------



## chicolom

chubtoad said:


> Alright, so I finally ordered the X1's, and I am a little worried because I have been digging through the X1 thread on these forums and I came across some posts about "bass light" versions of the X1? what the hell? I really hope its not some kind of bad quality control on philips part where not all the headphones are built in the same way, or was the guy posting just not making any sense? I remember something about the beyerdynamic's being kind of random in some models being kind of a gamble on what type of bass you get?
> 
> I can't be sending headphones back and forth with the US amazon at $43.00 of import/duty fees.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I would not worry about the "bass light" posts at all.  That was just one guy who was being weird and trying to start a rumour.
  
 As for cables, the best monoprice one is the "designed for mobile" one.  DO NOT get the premium cable.  That cable is huge and inflexible, and it will destroy your jack.    I like to call that cable "Jack the ripper" as it rips up headphone jacks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 I think that coiled cable will wind up being a lot shorter than you expect as it's only 18 inches when relaxed.  You will have to pull on the coils to lengthen it past that, and that's going to put tension on your jacks - which again, you don't want happening.


----------



## smooth

I appreciate the effort in this thread.
  
 I was all set to buy the skullcandy plyr 1 to replace my Tritton AX 720 7.1 headset based on the holiday gift guide. But then I saw your review of the Q701's and decided to grab those instead since they were only an extra $40 dollars. I went with the white ones instead of the 65tth annies. They look sharp to me and I have a lot of apple gear. hopefully I made a good choice opting for the Q701's instead of the PLYR 1's.
  
 I have an auzentech x-fi prelude sound card. here are the specs:
 http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/x-fi_prelude.php#specifications
  
 What should I get to help these shine for gaming on my PC?
 and what should I get to help them shine in the office for listening to music with my macbook pro or iPhone 5s as source? I enjoy all kinds of musical genres.
  
 If I need an amp at home I'd like to keep it around $100 bucks.
  
  
 I have UE super.fi 5 pro's for on the go so I may just keep using those until I get my budget back under control


----------



## Chubtoad

chicolom said:


> I would not worry about the "bass light" posts at all.  That was just one guy who was being weird and trying to start a rumour.
> 
> As for cables, the best monoprice one is the "designed for mobile" one.  DO NOT get the premium cable.  That cable is huge and inflexible, and it will destroy your jack.    I like to call that cable "Jack the ripper" as it rips up headphone jacks
> 
> ...


 
 LOL I'll avoid Jack the ripper. It shows that coiled cable stretches to 5 feet in the description.
  

Compact 19 inch coiled cable stretches to 5 feet (60 in.)


----------



## DADDYDC650

I just ordered a pair of Philips X1's along with the V-MODA BoomPro mic. Good times ahead.


----------



## chicolom

chubtoad said:


> LOL I'll avoid Jack the ripper. It shows that coiled cable stretches to 5 feet in the description.
> 
> 
> Compact 19 inch coiled cable stretches to 5 feet (60 in.)




Yeah, but once the cable is stretched to 5 feet it's going to be pulling on the jacks at both ends.

Better to play it safe and just get a "loose" cable IMO, so no pressure is being put on the X1's jack.


----------



## motorwayne

daddydc650 said:


> I just ordered a pair of Philips X1's along with the V-MODA BoomPro mic. Good times ahead.


 
 Same!


----------



## Chubtoad

chicolom said:


> Yeah, but once the cable is stretched to 5 feet it's going to be pulling on the jacks at both ends.
> 
> Better to play it safe and just get a "loose" cable IMO, so no pressure is being put on the X1's jack.


 
  
 yeah I suppose your right.


----------



## DADDYDC650

motorwayne said:


> Same!


 
 High five! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Mine will arrive on Monday. Just missed the delivery window for this Saturday.


----------



## davisman

X1's with a vmoda mic is an excellent choice for music and gaming.
  
 I emailed Schiit audio the other day with a routine question, and as a follow up I said 'I appreciate you guys, and your made in America products. I would gladly give you guys a fair amount of money for Dac that would handle dolby headphone I could use with my xbox, and for late night movies'. 
  
I received 'Thanks' lol. 
  
Did anything ever come of asking Fiio for a mixamp competitor?


----------



## chicolom

davisman said:


> Did anything ever come of asking Fiio for a mixamp competitor?


 
  
 I don't think anyone really asked them.  :\
  
 FiiO has it's own forum, maybe we could do a little petition thing there for one:
 http://www.head-fi.org/f/180/fiio
  
 FiiO Reps:
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/715/joe-bloggs
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/148324/JamesFiiO


----------



## skyforger

HD600's for £250 on amazon atm, they have been £360 for ages. Anyone can chime in quickly about there use in gaming? I was tempted to grab the 598's, but for an extra £100 I could get the 600's now.


----------



## chicolom

skyforger said:


> HD600's for £250 on amazon atm, they have been £360 for ages. Anyone can chime in quickly about there use in gaming? I was tempted to grab the 598's, but for an extra £100 I could get the 600's now.


 
  
 Should be very similar to the HD650s on the front page, but a tad more neutral/less warm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change. I'm not bashing the 1840s. I really think they're amazing for gaming, and with the 1540 pads, they're good enough for fun use.

My gripes are the high price which doesn't match it's level of refinement. The bass needs work most of all. Like I said, if these were around $350 new, I'd say they're a solid choice for those that want a detail oriented sound. For the $700 plus they asked for before, that was highway robbery. Even $500 is too much for a headphone that can stand to be better even at that price.

IF they were $250, I'd try to get one myself.


----------



## Tyco3000

purpleangel said:


> It might be helpful to know what sources your plugging the headphones into?
> AMP & DAC?




Thanks for the response it would probably be a asus stx or creative labs Zxr


----------



## Moskrilla

Hi,
 I am gonna pull the trigger on a new set of headphones this weekend and I have been going back and forth between two different ideas and I am not sure which is the better long term investment. I currently wear headphones for about 15 hours a day between work and gaming and my current setup is:
  
 PS4 > Mixamp Pro 2011 > ATH-AD700s
 or:
 PC > Creative SBZ > ATH-AD700s
  
 For the past two years I have really enjoyed the massive soundstage of the AD700's for FPS and sound whoring, however I can tell that I am losing out a lot on music listening and general atmosphere for everything else. So I started looking into some HD6XX's as they came highly recommended to balance that out.
  
 My question is given a budget of $400-$500 is it worth it to have 2 separate pairs of headphones and get something like HD6XX's and switching over to the ATH-AD700's when playing FPS's or should I just retire these and get another pair of large stage headphones like the AKG 702.52/712's and be happy with a single pair.
  
 I do plan on eventually (few weeks after getting the headphones) investing in a matching amp and my music tastes are pretty varied from 80s pop/electro/jazz and I play 100s of games a year not just FPS's.


----------



## AxelCloris

moskrilla said:


> My question is given a budget of $400-$500 is it worth it to have 2 separate pairs of headphones and get something like HD6XX's and switching over to the ATH-AD700's when playing FPS's or should I just retire these and get another pair of large stage headphones like the AKG 702.52/712's and be happy with a single pair.
> 
> I do plan on eventually (few weeks after getting the headphones) investing in a matching amp and my music tastes are pretty varied from 80s pop/electro/jazz and I play 100s of games a year not just FPS's.


 
  
 I went the multiple headphone route, and it works out for me. But what works for me may not work for others. Having two different sets can give you the best immersion on one and the best positional queues on another. Going a single set is great in saving money, but you often make minor to moderate trade-offs. Only you can answer what's best for you.


----------



## chicolom

moskrilla said:


> My question is given a budget of $400-$500 is it worth it to have 2 separate pairs of headphones and get something like HD6XX's and switching over to the ATH-AD700's when playing FPS's or should I just retire these and get another pair of large stage headphones like the AKG 702.52/712's and be happy with a single pair.


 
  
 I'd recommend just going with the K712s. 
  
 They're one of the most well-rounded mid-fi cans, and they handily beat the HD650 in soundstage size and spaciousness.  Regardless of soundstage, I prefer them to the HD650 anyways - as I find the HD650 a little sterile and boring sounding in comparison.


----------



## xanderwolfe

Hi guys, 

 I'm looking for a new gaming headset and I come across this forum.
 I was choosing between Siberia V2 and Razer Kraken 7.1, but then this thread somehow made me realized that it's better to buy audio headphones than dedicated "gaming headphones".
  
 Sadly, as a layman, the terminologies I encountered here are too technical for me.
 Sorry.
 Anyway, I quickly skimmed through the pages and "AKG Q701" often pops up. 
 If I were to buy this kind of headphone, is this just plug-and-play on my laptop? or do I need those AMPS/DAC that I often see on this thread?

 Also, when you guys say "setup", this is what I have in mind:

 [Headphone] --> [DAC/AMP] --> [Sound Card?!] --> [Laptop]

 is my understanding correct?

 If the AKG Q701 needs that kind of setup, then, I still need to buy a DAC/AMP and a SoundCard. (getting expensive 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)
 Can anyone point me to a good but cheap DAC/AMP and Sound card? should be compatible with laptop coz I travel every now and then. 

 Also, if I may ask, if I already have a hardware setup, (headphone+dac/amp+soundcard), do I still need to utilize the Surround softwares like Razer Surround, etc etc? or the hardware setup itself will take care of all the things?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I'd recommend just going with the K712s.
> 
> They're one of the most well-rounded mid-fi cans, and they handily beat the HD650 in soundstage size and spaciousness.  Regardless of soundstage, I prefer them to the HD650 anyways - as I find the HD650 a little sterile and boring sounding in comparison.




HD650, sterile? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR EARS MAN? 

It has the warmest, most euphonic mids I've heard outside of the LCD2. 

Though the HD650 does sound different depending on amp. It's character does tend to change. It can even sound very neutral...

I dunno, I really like the HD650. Not as much as the Annie, but on certain occasion, I prefer them.


----------



## Evshrug

xanderwolfe,
Yup, your "setup" is correct

[Headphone] --> [DAC/AMP] --> [Sound Card/Processor] --> [Laptop]

If you use a laptop, you can't put a soundcard inside... instead you need an external USB surround processor. Some options are the Asus Xonar U3 or U7 (if you like Dolby Headphone), Creative X-Fi Go! Pro (if you like CMSS-3D), Creative Recon3D USB (if you need something that works Windows, Mac, or console, and you like THX TruStudio Pro), or Creative Omni (Win+Mac, SBX ProStudio). I have a pretty extensive review of the Recon3D USB in my signature, and it's still my go-to device for the sake of flexibility (I prefer it over a Dolby Headphone device), but I bought an Omni for comparison and hopefully for a hardware upgrade. I hope to make a pretty comprehensive review of the Omni too.

Speaking of upgrades, the Omni and U3 have optical outputs if you want to later add an external DAC that has optical input. The U7 may also... but I haven't read as much about that model, sorry, but you can feel free to explore and share your findings. If you get the U3, you would more than likely want to upgrade the DAC right away, and if you get a DAC then you need an Amp either integrated in (FiiO E17) or a separate component. You _can_ attach the same extra add-ons to the Omni... but the Omni has a better DAC and amp integrated inside than the U3, so you may not need anything else between your headphones and the laptop (or just leave the special upgrades at home). I'll test out my Q701 with my Omni on Saturday night, if I don't spend the night with my girlfriend. I expect the Q701 to sound better with at least an external amp plugged in, but if the Q701 doesn't sound harsh straight out of the Omni I'll let you know.




chicolom said:


> ...
> As for cables, the best monoprice one is the "designed for mobile" one.  DO NOT get the premium cable.  That cable is huge and inflexible, and it will destroy your jack.    I like to call that cable "Jack the ripper" as it rips up headphone jacks  ...



2x what Chico said, mobile cable GOGOGO!




chicolom said:


> I don't think anyone really asked them.  :\
> 
> FiiO has it's own forum, maybe we could do a little petition thing there for one:
> http://www.head-fi.org/f/180/fiio
> ...



If it only took 7 people (on Head-Fi) to convince FiiO to change their E12 amp, it probably wouldn't be hard to convince them of a surround processor (DH or otherwise...) with a few loud voices and someone pointing to all the traffic to this thread WHICH IS DEDICATED TO headphones that work well with VIRTUAL SURROUND!
MORE GOGOGO!!!!!!!!!




moskrilla said:


> Hi,
> I am gonna pull the trigger on a new set of headphones this weekend and I have been going back and forth between two different ideas and I am not sure which is the better long term investment. I currently wear headphones for about 15 hours a day between work and gaming and my current setup is:
> 
> PS4 > Mixamp Pro 2011 > ATH-AD700s
> ...



OMGGG!!!
That's a TON of listening hours my friend! The longest single session I ever could stand was 9 hours with MY ATH-AD700, mostly because (after I bent the headband to a good shape) it was really lightweight and that weight was evenly spread around. I often had 5+ hour single sessions with it. Personal comfort varies, BUT you're gonna need a very light, low clamp, soft-padded, and heat dissipating headphone to not have irritation develop beyond tolerances if you want to wear headphones so long!

The HD650/600 will not meet the bill. Right away they are heavier, and have strong clamping force. Your taste/mileage may vary (YMMV), but from all reports the HD650/600 have a relaxed sound (look up how many people say they have a "laid-back" character) that may cause less listening fatigue... but also won't give you the sense of punch and urgency you probably find lacking in the AD700 you already have. Sonic tastes are opinion though...

The only headphone I can think of (that I've tried) that comes close to the marathon comfort of a well-adjusted and broken-in AD700 would be Sony's MA900. It's also light and dissipates heat well (better than the AD700), improves on the midbass, still has great soundstage and imaging, but the headband will dig into your cranium after an hour and would need extra padding IMO. It could be a good replacement for the AD700 if you want just one headphone.

Personally, an AKG was the next step that appealed to me, and I haven't been swayed away from that yet. My Q701 adds the excitement and euphoria I was looking for, fair bit better bass extension and treble refinement, and I just love listening to it (FPS and RPG games, Sci-Fi and Fantasy movies, pop/rock/electro/orchestral are my tastes). I would recommend you get one of those or one of the new AKGs without headband bumps, and I think you'll be very happy. HOWEVER, if you've already got the AD700 into a shape that sits the earpads evenly against your head and you have a rubberband between the wings to keep them at the right elasticity to keep the headphones from sliding down, I think you should keep it for when another headphone makes your ears/head tired. The AKGs are very comfortable, and the larger Circumaural earpads are a treat, but after 4 hours it would be nice to switch to the lighter weight and lesser-bass AD700's. I don't have the freedom to have marathon sessions like before, but for a while I kept the AD700 alongside my AKGs just because of their comfort and simple amping requirements.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560. Open Planarmagnetics for a realistic price are back, baby.

the 400i weighs almost 100g less than the 400, and has a new headband design and pads. I wonder what changes in sound it will have. Hopefully more upper mids, and way less treble.

I very much miss the planarmagnetic sound, and it'd be what I'd go back to if I was gonna spend so much again...


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> HD650, sterile? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR EARS MAN?


 
 Agreed. "Sterile" is completely the wrong word to describe the HD 650. "Boring" and "lazy" are much better words for it.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560. Open Planarmagnetics for a realistic price are back, baby.
> 
> the 400i weighs almost 100g less than the 400, and has a new headband design and pads. I wonder what changes in sound it will have. Hopefully more upper mids, and way less treble.
> 
> I very much miss the planarmagnetic sound, and it'd be what I'd go back to if I was gonna spend so much again...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

roguegeek said:


> Agreed. "Sterile" is completely the wrong word to describe the HD 650. "Boring" and "lazy" are much better words for it.






So I guess, the LCD2 and Mad Dogs are boring or lazy then? They're tuned to be a lot more polite than what you'd like, sure, but that's the beauty of having a variety of headphones. The 650 is intimate, sultry, and syrupy. Not something you'd use for metal or aggressive genres in general, but certainly capable with the right music.


----------



## Change is Good

I have wanted to try the HD650 since I first jumped into this hobby... just never did because I read they have a less than average soundstage (for open headphones). Maybe someone will one day be kind enough to let me try them... *hint* 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 *hint*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the soundstage is definitely not a strength on the 650, though it's still gonna outclass most closed headphones. Basically same problem the LCD2 has. It's that tonality that makes the soundstage more constricted.

The 650 is warm, bassy, and intimate. Not things that usually lend themselves well to soundstaging.

If the MA900 had a much smaller soundstage, I'd say it'd remind me a lot of the HD650, as they're both warm, organic mids, with an upper bass hump, and soft treble. I even bought a 2nd HD650 to use when my then LCD2 got tiring. they were too similar overall that I felt it moot to own both, especially when the LCD2 was simply a considerably more improved HD650 in planar form.

But the HD650 scales up exponentially with amping, FWIH, though I liked it as much on the E9K as I did on the SA-31. Fiio stated the E9 was built with the HD600 and HD650 in mind, so that may have played a role.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> If it only took 7 people (on Head-Fi) to convince FiiO to change their E12 amp, it probably wouldn't be hard to convince them of a surround processor (DH or otherwise...) with a few loud voices and someone pointing to all the traffic to this thread WHICH IS DEDICATED TO headphones that work well with VIRTUAL SURROUND!
> MORE GOGOGO!!!!!!!!!
> OMGGG!!!


 
  
@JamesFiiO, can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
  
 Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
  
_That should grab they're attention_


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> @JamesFiiO
> , can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
> 
> Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
> ...



+2
Using a FiiO E17 with a surround DSP added would easily blow the competition away, but HDMI passthrough (instead of coaxial?) would make it future-proof.

(Is this posted on a FiiO page? And if so, which one?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> @JamesFiiO
> , can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
> 
> Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
> ...




+1

10/10 would do again


----------



## Evshrug

So that's _three..._


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> +2
> Using a FiiO E17 with a surround DSP added would easily blow the competition away, but HDMI passthrough (instead of coaxial?) would make it future-proof.
> 
> (Is this posted on a FiiO page? And if so, which one?)




Not that I know of. Feel free to do so (if you're up to it) and give a link to my post. I want him directed straight to this thread, so he can see the kind of investment this would be... and at the same time he can check some of Mad's reviews on the competition.

Plus, this would be the perfect place for them to get suggestions on what we are looking for in this device.


----------



## Moskrilla

chicolom said:


> I'd recommend just going with the K712s.
> 
> They're one of the most well-rounded mid-fi cans, and they handily beat the HD650 in soundstage size and spaciousness.  Regardless of soundstage, I prefer them to the HD650 anyways - as I find the HD650 a little sterile and boring sounding in comparison.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Personally, an AKG was the next step that appealed to me, and I haven't been swayed away from that yet. My Q701 adds the excitement and euphoria I was looking for, fair bit better bass extension and treble refinement, and I just love listening to it (FPS and RPG games, Sci-Fi and Fantasy movies, pop/rock/electro/orchestral are my tastes). I would recommend you get one of those or one of the new AKGs without headband bumps, and I think you'll be very happy. HOWEVER, if you've already got the AD700 into a shape that sits the earpads evenly against your head and you have a rubberband between the wings to keep them at the right elasticity to keep the headphones from sliding down, I think you should keep it for when another headphone makes your ears/head tired. The AKGs are very comfortable, and the larger Circumaural earpads are a treat, but after 4 hours it would be nice to switch to the lighter weight and lesser-bass AD700's. I don't have the freedom to have marathon sessions like before, but for a while I kept the AD700 alongside my AKGs just because of their comfort and simple amping requirements.


 
  
 Appreciate the responses (and the great guide MLE) seems like a good next step is the AKG 712/702.65 and maybe I'll look into a pure music headset in the future. Thanks again!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K712/K702.65 would BE a fantastic music headphone as well. Really...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The K712/K702.65 would BE a fantastic music headphone as well. Really...


 
  
 Considering the music genres that Evs mentioned I'd have to agree... if he has the same taste.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JamesFiiO

Seriously, I have been a Fiio fan since picking up the E5 as my very first amp.

E5, E7, E9, E9K, E17, E12, D3, D03K

I have owned all of these, MULTIPLE times for some.

I would be first in line for an equivalent to the E17 with Dolby Headphone virtual surround capabilities. (DH2)

I have been waiting to recommend a Dolby headphone dac/amp that would also work for non-gaming applications when turning DH off.


----------



## Change is Good

+1 on the E17 similarity but without the rechargeable battery, please (strictly USB powered like the mixamp, Recon USB, DSS, etc). I think we all would prefer more internal room for better performance...


----------



## Moskrilla

mad lust envy said:


> The K712/K702.65 would BE a fantastic music headphone as well. Really...


 
  
 Of course, I just meant a headset where I could remove the requirement of also being used for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I still don't understand what you're implying. The K712/K702 65 aren't headsets, they are headPHONES aimed for music, that also work extremely well for gaming. So, regardless of whether if it was for gaming or music, they would fit incredibly well for either purpose. Don't understand what you mean by removing the requirement. hey don't come with a microphone, so it's not like you're limited by them in any shape or form. You'd have to find an external mic, sure, but that's it.

Or am I just reading your posts wrong?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I still don't understand what you're implying. The K712/K702 65 aren't headsets, they are headPHONES aimed for music, that also work extremely well for gaming. So, regardless of whether if it was for gaming or music, they would fit incredibly well for either purpose. Don't understand what you mean by removing the requirement. hey don't come with a microphone, so it's not like you're limited by them in any shape or form. You'd have to find an external mic, sure, but that's it.
> 
> Or am I just reading your posts wrong?


 
  
 I think he's just basically saying he wants two headPHONES lol (but mistakenly using the word headset). One for strictly gaming and one for music...
  
 The again I could be reading it wrong, too...


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Hifiman HE-400i and HE-560. Open Planarmagnetics for a realistic price are back, baby.
> 
> the 400i weighs almost 100g less than the 400, and has a new headband design and pads. I wonder what changes in sound it will have. Hopefully more upper mids, and way less treble.
> 
> I very much miss the planarmagnetic sound, and it'd be what I'd go back to if I was gonna spend so much again...




Woah! Looking for my avatar picture (to crop it), I came across a forgotten gem in my camera roll, here's a sneak-peak screenshot:


It's 18 minutes long, and I spend waaaay too much time playing with cupping my hands near the earcups, so it would need a fair amount of editing but maybe I can post a much-belated video reviewing the older HE400!



mad lust envy said:


> The K712/K702.65 would BE a fantastic music headphone as well. Really...



Much agreed, my Q701 was beyond good to where it gives me pleasant shivers down my spine when the music really just "gets" to me, no other headphone (except the K712, which is broadly similar but slightly improved) has made my feet bop or feel euphoric the way the Q701 does often. I was actually kinda bored with music just before I got the AD700 and switched to the Q701. A lot to love there.



change is good said:


> Not that I know of. Feel free to do so (if you're up to it) and give a link to my post. I want him directed straight to this thread, so he can see the kind of investment this would be... and at the same time he can check some of Mad's reviews on the competition.
> 
> Plus, this would be the perfect place for them to get suggestions on what we are looking for in this device.



True, this is a good place, but I bet James doesn't read this thread. I'd post it over, but I'm already being a dumb-dumb staying up this late with an 8 hour drive ahead of me tomorrow.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> +1 on the E17 similarity but without the rechargeable battery, please (strictly USB powered like the mixamp, Recon USB, DSS, etc). I think we all would prefer more internal room for better performance...



Maybe... However, battery power could be a performance upgrade vs USB power.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Maybe... However, battery power could be a performance upgrade vs USB power.


 
  
 I just don't want any noise interference (similar to the E12 and E18) when plugged in while listening... that's really my reason, actually...


----------



## chicolom

roguegeek said:


> Agreed. "Sterile" is completely the wrong word to describe the HD 650. "Boring" and "lazy" are much better words for it.


 
  


mad lust envy said:


>


 
  
 HD650 sounded overall leaner and less warm/bassy than the K712.  It sounded sort of like a more refined X1, but slightly warmer, a much more obvious midrange focus, a smaller soundstage, and lacking the "fun" bass boost and hint-of-treble-sparkle traits (so "n" shaped in comaparison).  So yeah, kinda of boring IMO.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I tend to find "n" shaped headphones a little boring (same with HD5xx).


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> @JamesFiiO, can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
> 
> Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
> 
> _That should grab they're attention_


 
  
*+ 1*
 BTW, I think James might be away right now because he had underwent an operation.  FWIR the operation was succesful (
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), but I think he might be away in recovery right now...
  
 Maybe do that ^ again but with the _other_ FiiO rep as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## Moskrilla

Yes, apologies, was poor choices in words, was just implying trying other sounding headphones in the future! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I still don't understand what you're implying. The K712/K702 65 aren't headsets, they are headPHONES aimed for music.
> Or am I just reading your posts wrong?


 
  
  


change is good said:


> I think he's just basically saying he wants two headPHONES lol (but mistakenly using the word headset). One for strictly gaming and one for music...


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> *+ 1*
> BTW, I think James might be away right now because he had underwent an operation.  FWIR the operation was succesful (
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Man, I didn't know. Glad to hear everything was successful.
  
@Joe Bloggs, can FiiO *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!! Everyone who agrees quote me with a +1 That should grab they're attention


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Man, I didn't know. Glad to hear everything was successful.
> 
> @Joe Bloggs, can FiiO *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!! Everyone who agrees quote me with a +1 That should grab they're attention


 
  
*+1*
  
  


> Originally Posted by *Mad *Lust Envy /img/forum/go_quote.gif


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> *+1*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

FiiO can do it. Something along the E17 in quality would be very fine. Wouldn't mind going higher. 
  
 We need Must Lust Envy's aka Mud Lust Envy aka Matte-Lust Envy's appreciation and ambassador work.
  
 If FiiO needs minimum orders to fund this project we might need various other forum's help, I am sure the interest is high.


----------



## ninjapirate9901

change is good said:


> @JamesFiiO, can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
> 
> Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
> 
> _That should grab they're attention_


 
  
 +1
  
 Would definitely be keen.


----------



## SaLX

+1.


----------



## Chubtoad

+1


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does he read here? Someone point him to this. AMBASSADOR, DO IT!


----------



## xanderwolfe

For my first all-around gaming/movies/music headphone?
_(for music, im slightly inclined to bass. very very slightly.)_

 which is which? 

 Q701, Annie, or K712 PRO?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X1.


----------



## HELDERZINHO

Hello,
  
 For playing games on PS3 like COD Ghost (FPS) games to be a "beast" on positioning and footsteps:
  
 Sennheiser PC350 + Mixamp or Astro A40 Mixamp? or another headphone with Mixamp up to 200,00 €?


----------



## Hailin

helderzinho said:


> Hello,
> 
> For playing games on PS3 like COD Ghost (FPS) games to be a "beast" on positioning and footsteps:
> 
> Sennheiser PC350 + Mixamp or Astro A40 Mixamp? or another headphone with Mixamp up to 200,00 €?


 
 Sony MA900. All the headphone you will ever need.
 Unless you want to get your skull crushed by bass in dubstep tracks, then you would need a second headphone.


----------



## HELDERZINHO

I referred the PC350 because i've the chance to buy a used for 80,00 eurs with the mixamp (120,00 eur) = 200,00 eur
 the MA900 that you say is more expensive unless i find one used too.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I have wanted to try the HD650 since I first jumped into this hobby... just never did because I read they have a less than average soundstage (for open headphones). Maybe someone will one day be kind enough to let me try them... *hint*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I may be willing to part with mine for a short while once the Alpha Dogs come in. I'm hoping to receive my upgrade email this week, but I may not have been quick enough to be one of the first 10 to sign up.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> HD650, sterile? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR EARS MAN?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 He's not the only one, I found the HD 650 a bit dull myself. It does have lush and savory mids but I wouldn't call it euphoric mids personally, the lack of euphony was my biggest problem with them. I found many headphones more euphoric to me. They should of been euphoric to me but they just weren't. Regardless of that, I did like the headphones quite a bit and would be a pair I will probably eventually get as it was my favorite dynamic Sennheiser.


----------



## NamelessPFG

And to think I've never auditioned the HD650...or any other Sennheiser set, for that matter.
  
 Some say the HD600's better, though, less "veiled"...but still pretty dark/warm overall.
  
 All I know is that if someone lends me the likes of the HD650, LCD-2, maybe even HE-500 and HE-4...I'm going to prepare myself again with another SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 setup, and the battle of "most glorious midrange" shall commence! (And then someone would show up with a Koss ESP/950 and a Stax Pro bias adapter to try and decisively sweep away everything else...)
  
 As for dullness, that term makes me think "treble with no sparkle", like the MA900 with no EQ to bring the treble in line. If that's the HD650, I wouldn't like it for sure. The MA900 has the advantage of being cheap ($150 for me, $110 for some other lucky git, $200 and under in most cases); the HD650 doesn't, especially after Sennheiser's recent price-fixing push.


----------



## kman1211

namelesspfg said:


> And to think I've never auditioned the HD650...or any other Sennheiser set, for that matter.
> 
> Some say the HD600's better, though, less "veiled"...but still pretty dark/warm overall.
> 
> ...


 

 I found the HD 800 even duller(soulless, boring, whatever you want to call it) than the HD 650 and it has excess treble and sparkle. The HD 600 & 650 were among the least dull Sennheisers I have listened to.
  
 The HD 650 does have less sparkle and air in the treble than the MA900 does though.


----------



## NamelessPFG

kman1211 said:


> I found the HD 800 even duller(soulless, boring, whatever you want to call it) than the HD 650 and it has excess treble and sparkle. The HD 600 & 650 were among the least dull Sennheisers I have listened to.
> The HD 650 does have less sparkle and air in the treble than the MA900 does though.


 
  
 As if audiophile language wasn't confusing enough already...for me, it's like saying something tastes like purple.
  
 One weird thing about the HD800? spritzer hated it initially, but actually wound up liking it when amplified properly. (I'm guessing that means something along the lines of the Gilmore Lite or better.) I never thought any dynamic headphone would win over the don of the Stax Mafia, of all people.
  
 In turn, this makes me wonder what amp you auditioned it with and how much that might change the signature...or just how much people's tastes differ when it comes to headphones.
  
 All I can say in the end is that even with my relatively limited headphone experience that doesn't include anything AKG or Sennheiser, there is one headphone that stands above all else when it comes to this sort of...naturalness, just lifting all the barriers between myself and the music, making vocals and strings and cymbals and all that really come alive. No recession, no artificial texture, no exaggerated piercingness to its sparkly treble or bloated boominess to its bass, just...music. All of this, something that one of its modern successors inexplicably lost despite being based on largely the same frame...


----------



## miceblue

I never understood the term "amplified properly."

Properly as in good synergy? I'm pretty sure most headphones are amped properly given today's technology...(balanced armature driver earphones being excluded of course because of their wacky phase and impedance curves; get yo freak on with freq phase!).


----------



## kraken2109

Anyone tried gaming in the AKG K612 pros?
 I'm hoping they're similar to the 702 in terms of competitiveness but slightly warmer (for a lot less money).


----------



## ecjcc

hi 1st of all excuse me because I am a complete layman here... I am doubting between senn pc 360, senn hd 598 and qpad qh-90. Use: ps4 through the ds4 on the gamepad. I come across some doubts:
  
 - because of the fact that the ps4 gamepad has battery and therefore is not a "strong" power source, will I "lose" sound quality? in what sense (volumen, sound depth, ...)
  
 - what if I connect the headphones to the tv set and then a micro (e.g. zalman clip-on) to the ps4 ds4 connector? That way would the sound be "as it should"?
  
 - between the 3 above (I know one is not a headset), what do you recommend? (or any alternatives welcome...)
  
 Thks in advance


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> So I guess, the LCD2 and Mad Dogs are boring or lazy then? They're tuned to be a lot more polite than what you'd like, sure, but that's the beauty of having a variety of headphones. The 650 is intimate, sultry, and syrupy. Not something you'd use for metal or aggressive genres in general, but certainly capable with the right music.


 
  
 Oh yes I did! The HD 600 is about the warmest headphone that I actually have enjoyed enough to keep. Haven't been able to get a long enough listening session with the LCD2 yet, but if they sound anything like the extremely dark and depressing HD 650, count me out. Boom!


----------



## theOmni

Quick question
  
 I'm using the Schiit Vali amp on my gaming desktop paired with a Q701 headphone. The sound is being processed by an X-FI Titanium HD sound card. The card has an RCA output  and a headphone output, whereas the amp only has an RCA input. Should I be using the RCA from the soundcard to output (RCA to RCA) or should I be using the headphone (3.5mm to RCA). I have both wires available. Which would provide me with the best surround? Thank you.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

hey Mad Lust and every one, i have a very important question to ask.
 i wonder if you guys have heared of the new Mad Catz Freq4d with the new technology that would shake gaming pc ?
 the vivitouch technology that is supposdly makes u feel the bass or feel the tank in BF4 instead of just hearing.
 i've done alot of research and decided to get the hd 558 since it's a great choice at 130$ maybe do the foam mod.
 but this new headset is giving me a hard time choosing since i know that Mad Catz aren't the best price/performance company
 and that they are not as good as sennheiser but is it worth to get their headset at 130$ with the new tech instead of the hd 558 ?
 i like soundstage and i dunno about theirs so :\


----------



## SaLX

theomni said:


> I'm using the Schiit Vali amp on my gaming desktop paired with a Q701 headphone. The sound is being processed by an X-FI Titanium HD sound card. The card has an RCA output  and a headphone output, whereas the amp only has an RCA input. Should I be using the RCA from the soundcard to output (RCA to RCA) or should I be using the headphone (3.5mm to RCA). I have both wires available. Which would provide me with the best surround? Thank you.


 
 RCA to RCA > you can select proper headphone surround using this option on the Titanium HD, unlike the new SBZ range where this option is only for speakers alas (although you _could_ use it to pretend 2 speakers are headphones, but the HRTF is a bit borked on the SBZ - basically avoid).


----------



## JBrown2272

Hey is the K702 Annie the same as the regular K702's that are being sold now?


----------



## SammyJr

^I don't think so. MLE reviewed both I believe, and gave different scores to each.


----------



## smooth

theomni said:


> Quick question
> 
> I'm using the Schiit Vali amp on my gaming desktop paired with a Q701 headphone. The sound is being processed by an X-FI Titanium HD sound card. The card has an RCA output  and a headphone output, whereas the amp only has an RCA input. Should I be using the RCA from the soundcard to output (RCA to RCA) or should I be using the headphone (3.5mm to RCA). I have both wires available. Which would provide me with the best surround? Thank you.


 
 I'm thinking of getting the Vali but I'm tempted to go ahead and get their tube hybrid. In that case I'd think I need to figure out how to bypass the DAC's and/or OPAMPS in my soundcard (auzentech x-fi prelude). I don't know that I can or how much it matters that a signal is processed through a different opamp before it goes into an amp with different opamps. maybe that's beyond the scope of this thread, though.


----------



## kman1211

namelesspfg said:


> As if audiophile language wasn't confusing enough already...for me, it's like saying something tastes like purple.
> 
> One weird thing about the HD800? spritzer hated it initially, but actually wound up liking it when amplified properly. (I'm guessing that means something along the lines of the Gilmore Lite or better.) I never thought any dynamic headphone would win over the don of the Stax Mafia, of all people.
> 
> ...


 
  
 True it is very confusing and it can be hard to get what you are saying across. And also preference, taste, and even hearing differences can change it a lot. Then the whole system synergy aspects adds even more confusion. I've been fortunate enough to listen to many headphones even rare and discontinued models so thankfully I have a very good idea what I like and don't like.
  
 Well it seems the HD 800 I listened to is also brighter than normal from what my friend told me which could be the problem with the HD 800 I have, I felt like I would get tinnitus or something if I listened to it too long. I want to try other HD 800s sometime to see if the one I heard is just a freakishly bright one or if they are bright in general. I also lean slightly towards darker and lusher sounding headphones as many brighter headphones are too harsh in the highs for me, although if a brighter headphone is done right I will really like it. I heard the HD 800 mainly on high-end tube amps. The HD 800 doesn't compare to the electrostat Senns released during the 90s. I wonder if the rumors of a possible new Senn electrostat are true or not.
  
 I felt that way when I heard the R10, it was simply real, there was absolutely nothing in the way between you and the music, it was the most transparent, natural, as well as euphoric headphone I have ever heard; even topping the best electrostatics in terms of transparency and naturalness to my ears. I found the two best headphones I have heard are both like 10-20 years old, seems there really hasn't been any improvement in headphones over the years.


kraken2109 said:


> Anyone tried gaming in the AKG K612 pros?
> I'm hoping they're similar to the 702 in terms of competitiveness but slightly warmer (for a lot less money).


 

 The K612 is fantastic for gaming. It may not be as wide in soundstage as the K702 but it does have more accurate imaging. They are similar in terms of competitiveness and they are a bit warmer and intimate.


----------



## DADDYDC650

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> hey Mad Lust and every one, i have a very important question to ask.
> i wonder if you guys have heared of the new Mad Catz Freq4d with the new technology that would shake gaming pc ?
> the vivitouch technology that is supposdly makes u feel the bass or feel the tank in BF4 instead of just hearing.
> i've done alot of research and decided to get the hd 558 since it's a great choice at 130$ maybe do the foam mod.
> ...


 
 Sounds just like the rumble feature in the Sony pulse headset. Great in games but sucks for music.


----------



## chicolom

ecjcc said:


> hi 1st of all excuse me because I am a complete layman here... I am doubting between senn pc 360, senn hd 598 and qpad qh-90. Use: ps4 through the ds4 on the gamepad. I come across some doubts:
> 
> - because of the fact that the ps4 gamepad has battery and therefore is not a "strong" power source, will I "lose" sound quality? in what sense (volumen, sound depth, ...)
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Plugging into the controller will just be a basic downmixed stereo signal (AFAIK), and the DS4 can't have much of a headphone amplifier in it.  So it will be bottlenecking the soundstage/dynamics/etc. of whatever headphones/headset you get with it.
  
 I would just cut to the chase, do what everyone else eventually winds up doing, and get a surround device like the mixamp.  If you use chat a lot the voice mixing knobs will come in handy.
  
 Good deal on the wired mixamp right now (comes with a FREE Astro A30 headset).
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
  
 Here's the wireless.  Not quite as good a deal, but it's getting hard to find wireless mixamp since they're discontinued.
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wireless-System/productID.253782000
  

 PC360, HD598, and HD558 are all solid choices for the ~$130-170 range.  If you stretch your budget there's the MA900, K601, and Q701 for 200, the X1 for 250, etc. etc.  For the Q-Pad, I'd look at the Qpad *QH-85 *instead, as that's the open version.  QH-90 is closed.  You can always attach mics to headphones if you want to use them like headsets.  I wouldn't get the Zalman, as it's not a great clip-on mic (not sensitive enough).
  
  
  


xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> hey Mad Lust and every one, i have a very important question to ask.
> i wonder if you guys have heared of the new Mad Catz Freq4d with the new technology that would shake gaming pc ?
> the vivitouch technology that is supposdly makes u feel the bass or feel the tank in BF4 instead of just hearing.
> i've done alot of research and decided to get the hd 558 since it's a great choice at 130$ maybe do the foam mod.
> ...


 
  
  
 I highly doubt anyone here has heard that headset.  I'd be very surprised if it's better than an HD558 though.
  
 No idea what the "Vivitouch technology" is, but if it's a vibrating bass effect that is NOT new technology as headsets have been doing that for a while now. 
  
  
 I think it might be something else though.  I read the description of their site, but it wasn't very helpful at all:
  


> _ViviTouch 4D Sound transforms your headphone listening experience into a whole new sensory dimension of audio that sounds as if it's alive. It changes how you hear, not what you hear, producing rich, full-bodied sound that you can actually feel — just like you were experiencing it live. Listening to recorded music catapults you straight to the front row, movies become full-on cinematic events, and gameplay engulfs you in an utterly lifelike world. Whenever you want to be there live, all you have to do is plug in.*_
> **USB mode only*


 
  
 The marketing runs so thick in that description that you'd need a chainsaw to cut through it.  Note that it says "USB mode only".  That gives you a clue that's it may be some kind of DSP that's tied to whatever USB soundcard the headset comes with.  Or it could still be a vibration effect which needs the USB dongle to work properly.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

aha so a head set that is wireless and with 7.1 surround sound + vivitouch technology is for 100$ and those damn mad catz are asking for a wired headset with no 7.1 surround sound but only vivitouch technology for 130$... fml am not gonna buy a headset till 7.1 + vivitouch  are in one headset for 100-130$


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

oh i see, i heared that sony pulse elite headset has it too and 7.1 surround sound for arround a 100$, can u suggest me a headset with viberating bass and 7.1 surround sound in 100-200$ price range


----------



## DADDYDC650

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> oh i see, i heared that sony pulse elite headset has it too and 7.1 surround sound for arround a 100$, can u suggest me a headset with viberating bass and 7.1 surround sound in 100-200$ price range


 
 PLYR1 by SkullCandy.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

daddydc650 said:


> PLYR1 by SkullCandy.


 
 thanks for the quick reply, i wanted to tell you that there is no need for wireless but only 7.1 and that ( vivitouch or viberating bass or bassimpact ) has so many names xD
 is there other options i can choose from ? if not it's okay i just thought if i tell u that wireless isn't needed you might be able to give me more options


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> PLYR1 by SkullCandy.


 
  
 I don't think the PLYR1 has the vibrating bass simulation effect.


----------



## DADDYDC650

chicolom said:


> I don't think the PLYR1 has the vibrating bass simulation effect.


 
 He can try the Pulse Elite Edition Wireless Stereo Headset. That's the only one that I know about that rumbles. I loved it for games.


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

daddydc650 said:


> He can try the Pulse Elite Edition Wireless Stereo Headset. That's the only one that I know about that rumbles. I loved it for games.


 
 i know but am not a ps3 player am a pc player am just looking for a headset that has those features the vibrating bass and 7.1 surround sound prefer not wireless


----------



## DADDYDC650

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> i know but am not a ps3 player am a pc player am just looking for a headset that has those features the vibrating bass and 7.1 surround sound prefer not wireless


 
 It actually works great for the PC. The microphone is very clear. Being wireless is only a plus.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get the SubPac for tactile bass 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.thesubpac.com/


----------



## xXSnAkEeYeSXx

daddydc650 said:


> It actually works great for the PC. The microphone is very clear. Being wireless is only a plus.


 
 i know but i've seen in this review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUaZYp7DgDU @ 2:45 he says that virtual surround doesn't work as good on the pc


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> Get the SubPac for tactile bass
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Also, this:
 http://www.thebuttkicker.com/


----------



## DADDYDC650

xxsnakeeyesxx said:


> i know but i've seen in this review http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUaZYp7DgDU @ 2:45 he says that virtual surround doesn't work as good on the pc


 
 I had no problems locating ememies while playing Call of Duty BO 2 and BF3 on PC. It's a great headset and the wireless feature works flawlessly.


----------



## roguegeek

daddydc650 said:


> He can try the Pulse Elite Edition Wireless Stereo Headset. That's the only one that I know about that rumbles. I loved it for games.


 
 Ugh. Sounds too gimmicky to take seriously. The money these companies must make from all of these "gaming" headsets just makes my butt cry.


----------



## SaLX

roguegeek said:


> Ugh. Sounds too gimmicky to take seriously. The money these companies must make from all of these "gaming" headsets just makes my butt cry.


 
 Well, I'm sure many of us have in the distant past, or not so distant past, actually purchased a gaming headset. I bought a Medusa 5.1 10 years ago (3 speakers in each cup job) - thought it was the dog's bollocks at the time. Now I know different. Maybe I should've posted this in Evshrugs "Things that I know now" thread...............


----------



## chicolom

I sent James (of FiiO) a PM. 
  
  


> Hi James,
> 
> I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there has been interest for quite some time among gamers-who-use-headphones for an "audiophile" company to come out with a device (Amp/DAC) that supports virtual surround sound, and based of FiiO's proven track record of making affordable high quality audiophile devices, they seem poised as an ideal company to make such a device.
> 
> ...


 
   
 Here's his reply:
  
  
 Quote:


> Hi, Chicolom,
> We will see whether we can do something for that but currently we are quite busy in the DAP line up and need to upgrade our e11/e17/e6 and such etc, anyway, it is a
> 
> good idea.
> ...


----------



## Change is Good

Nice!

I was wondering if we got his attention... because I noticed this morning he had posted in the E18 thread right around the time I tagged him.


----------



## AxelCloris

I would absolutely love to see a DSP from Fiio. They're a company that could really make a big push in the market. It would help get their name out to more than just the headphone community.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I may be willing to part with mine for a short while once the Alpha Dogs come in. I'm hoping to receive my upgrade email this week, but I may not have been quick enough to be one of the first 10 to sign up.




I'd definitely be down to babysit them for a bit... should you decide to do so


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I'd sure be down to babysit them for a bit... should you decide to do so


 
  
 It's possible that the AD may replace the HD650s in sound quality for me, potentially, we'll have to see. If that happens, I may get the newly announced HE-400i as my open cans. Crossing my fingers that I get to power them with a SuperDuper Geek from Light Harmonics CES competition. They used that little guy to power a pair of LCD2s at RMAF, and impressions were glowing. I'll know around 3am if I won or not.
  
 So if the AD do end up replacing my HD650 I'll probably do a short tour of the gaming thread for a few members to try them before I sell them off for the new HiFiMan cans.


----------



## chicolom

I'm going to start a new thread on the FiiO forum petitioning for a device, so we can keep this request alive this time.
  
 Once it's posted, everyone should go over and subscribe and express their support/interest for it (so that FiiO can see it), and ALSO help build a list the requirements the device would need to support (Optical input, Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding, line out, etc), AND any _additional _feature request hat you would like to see on the device (Digital Equalizer, DTS decoding, etc. -_ let's try and keep these realistic though and consider the cost certain features would add to the device_). 
  
  
  
Aaaaannndddd, here it is:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio
  
GOGOGOGO!!!


----------



## rikstaker

+1 for ma900. They are phenomenal for gaming. Just played Last of Us, and the positional ques are spot on the bass is just delicious for an open headphone. And ohh yeah thewe were made for battlefield 4. I also have no problems locating footsteps. overall the best allroudner for gaming,comfort and movies.


----------



## DADDYDC650

rikstaker said:


> +1 for ma900. They are phenomenal for gaming. Just played Last of Us, and the positional ques are spot on the bass is just delicious for an open headphone. And ohh yeah thewe were made for battlefield 4. I also have no problems locating footsteps. overall the best allroudner for gaming,comfort and movies.


 
 I liked the MA900's a lot but I needed bigger bass impact. Other than that, I thought they were amazing for the price.


----------



## ecjcc

chicolom said:


> Plugging into the controller will just be a basic downmixed stereo signal (AFAIK), and the DS4 can't have much of a headphone amplifier in it.  So it will be bottlenecking the soundstage/dynamics/etc. of whatever headphones/headset you get with it.
> 
> I would just cut to the chase, do what everyone else eventually winds up doing, and get a surround device like the mixamp.  If you use chat a lot the voice mixing knobs will come in handy.
> 
> ...


 

 Thks a lot Chicolom,
  
 I have the talking to the astro guys and they say the mixamp is designed for 32-Ohm headsets. Though both the PC 360 & HD 598 Sennheisers are 50-Ohm... would I lose power, bass or anything if I connect them to the mixamp?
  
 And can I get an external microphone to use it with the HD 598, and with a Y adapter, connect both to the mixamp? What micro would you recommend, if not the zalman one?
  
 If I just use a headphone (no micro), is there any device still valid but cheaper than the mixamp? I mean, I am not sure I am going to use the EQ presets and I am thinking over the micro as well... perhaps I just keep the headphone and that is all... with this config, I would then just need a sufficiently powered source to connect the HD 598 (just to amplify)...
  
 thks a lot


----------



## ecjcc

chicolom said:


> Plugging into the controller will just be a basic downmixed stereo signal (AFAIK), and the DS4 can't have much of a headphone amplifier in it.  So it will be bottlenecking the soundstage/dynamics/etc. of whatever headphones/headset you get with it.
> 
> I would just cut to the chase, do what everyone else eventually winds up doing, and get a surround device like the mixamp.  If you use chat a lot the voice mixing knobs will come in handy.
> 
> ...


 
 Thks a lot Chicolom,
  
 1.- I have talked to the Astro guys and the say the mixamp uses 32 Ohms. But Senn HD 598 &n PC 360 have 50 Ohms. Will I lose power/bass or other? Will I get the Sennheiser's quality out of the mixamp, or does it change in any way the Senn sound and not for good? (I mean if it just acts as an amplifier, sorry I am a layman...)
  
 2.- Can I use an external micro and connect both Senn headphone + external micro (using a Y adapter) to the mixamp? What micro (other than zalman) would you suggest?
  
 3.- Would you recommend between astro a40 & qh-85? But I guess it is preferable any of those 2 Senns above in terms of audio quality, right? Which of both would you recommend for PS4 gaming (esp.  Bf4)?
  
 Thks a lot again


----------



## Fegefeuer

Good petition, Chico, let's try to get more head-fiers involved.


----------



## chicolom

chicolom said:


> Aaaaannndddd, here it is:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio
> 
> GOGOGOGO!!!


 
  
  
 I've added an option to "*sign*" the petition at the top of that thread, so we can collect some of the interest via signatures.
  
  
Everyone interested in this (who wouldn't be) _please sign and pass it on._
  
  
 Maybe MLE could link to it for a while on the front page to help bump up the view/signature count (*hint hint)?


----------



## chicolom

ecjcc said:


> Thks a lot Chicolom,
> 
> I have the talking to the astro guys and they say the mixamp is designed for 32-Ohm headsets. Though both the PC 360 & HD 598 Sennheisers are 50-Ohm... would I lose power, bass or anything if I connect them to the mixamp?
> If I just use a headphone (no micro), is there any device still valid but cheaper than the mixamp? I mean, I am not sure I am going to use the EQ presets and I am thinking over the micro as well... perhaps I just keep the headphone and that is all... with this config, I would then just need a sufficiently powered source to connect the HD 598 (just to amplify)...
> ...


 
  
 The mixamp will be fine for _most _50 ohm headphones.  In your case, neither of those Sennheisers are particularly hard to drive.
  
 If you do NOT need chat support, I'd recommend going with the Turtle Beach DSS (version 1) instead.  It has no options for plugging in a microphone, but it has the exact same surround sound as the mixamp and it can be had for ~$25 from eBay in the US.
  


ecjcc said:


> 2.- Can I use an external micro and connect both Senn headphone + external micro (using a Y adapter) to the mixamp? What micro (other than zalman) would you suggest?
> 
> 3.- Would you recommend between astro a40 & qh-85? But I guess it is preferable any of those 2 Senns above in terms of audio quality, right? Which of both would you recommend for PS4 gaming (esp.  Bf4)?
> 
> Thks a lot again


 
  
 Two external mic options are the "Deal Extreme Mini Clip-On Microphone", the Antlion Modmic.  There are some more listed on the front page.
  
 I wouldn't recommend the A40 simply because it's overpriced.  It performs about on par with a ~80-100 headhpone, but at it's _actual_ price it is beaten by most $100+ headphones - including the Sennheiser PC360 and HD5x8.
  
 I haven't heard the QH-85, but it will probably be decent at the $100 mark but may not match the Sennheisers in quality.  FYI the QH-85 is a microphone version of the takstar HI 2050 headphone.


----------



## Zack117

Speaking about alternative solutions. Is there any headphone device on the market, beyond gaming industries like Tritton, Turtle Beach, Astro etc., which has a DAC and a chat functionality for consoles WITHOUT Dolby Headphone?
  
 btw. awesome petition. 'bout f**ing time!


----------



## chicolom

zack117 said:


> Speaking about alternative solutions. Is there any headphone device on the market, beyond gaming industries like Tritton, Turtle Beach, Astro etc., which has a DAC and a chat functionality for consoles WITHOUT Dolby Headphone?
> 
> btw. awesome petition. 'bout f**ing time!


 
  
 I'm not sure.
  
 You can turn OFF Dolby Headphone.


----------



## chicolom

MLE, I'm not seeing the sections about surround sound processors, amps, mics, etc (all the stuff after the headphone reviews) on the guide ATM.  Is it missing for you?


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## ecjcc

chicolom said:


> The mixamp will be fine for _most _50 ohm headphones.  In your case, neither of those Sennheisers are particularly hard to drive.
> 
> If you do NOT need chat support, I'd recommend going with the Turtle Beach DSS (version 1) instead.  It has no options for plugging in a microphone, but it has the exact same surround sound as the mixamp and it can be had for ~$25 from eBay in the US.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thks again,
  
 I have come accross a decent price for dss2, but the specs read as follows:
  
_· Game audio frequency response: 20Hz - 20kHz, >120dB SPL @ 1kHz
 · Headphone amplifier: Stereo 35mW/ch, THD <1%
 · Digital Audio Input: TOSLINK connector compatible with 48kHz Digital Audio Streams_
  
 Sorry, does it mean that the senn pc 360 which has 15 – 28000 Hz​ or the hd 598 with 12 - 38500 Hz will be forced to come down to 20-20k Hz? If so, I think (I am a layman) the human ear is unable to capture all that spectrum (I mean 12-38.5, though I do not know how much we can and how much we cannot),​but do you think that is a material loss when gaming? I fear that if I get a Senn and then force it to become something "standard"...
  
 Besides, does dss2 allow for a mic connection, either that integrated in pc 360 or a mini clip-on (btw, thks a lot for the mic advice)? I have read somewhere that it is possible, but I am unsure... perhaps in a dss2 connector called "auxiliary input"...
  
 Thks a lot, I highly appreciate your advice
  
 EDIT: Also, the DSS2 has a headphone output of 16 Ohms, is that an issue (Senn's impedance: 50 Ohms)?


----------



## kraken2109

Don't worry about the frequency response numbers.


----------



## Mackem

What's the consensus on the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition? Looking for a headset ideally as my desktop mic picks up absolutely everything so I can't really talk to people on Skype for it picking up my dog / vacuum cleaner etc. Dropped in price on Amazon.co.uk recently to £120.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> MLE, I'm not seeing the sections about surround sound processors, amps, mics, etc (all the stuff after the headphone reviews) on the guide ATM.  Is it missing for you?


 
  
 I don't see it either. It may have broken when he added in the 1840 review.


----------



## chicolom

ecjcc said:


> Thks again,
> 
> I have come accross a decent price for dss2, but the specs read as follows:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't worry about the frequency response specs.
  
 The "aux input" on the DSS is not for mics, it's for analog input signals (like an mp3 player).  AFAIK the only way to use a mic with the DSS is through the USB input, but I don't know how that works exactly as your headset has to be a USB headset similar to the Turtle Beach ones.
  
 The reason I specifically recommended the DSS *version 1*, is because the DSS 1 uses Dolby Headphone which is a proven surround sound DSP.  The DSS 2 dropped Dolby Headphone support and went with a less popular DSP called "Cirrus Logic" surround.  I haven't heard it, but from I reports I've read on it Dolby Headphone from the version1 is the better DSP.
  


mackem said:


> What's the consensus on the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition? Looking for a headset ideally as my desktop mic picks up absolutely everything so I can't really talk to people on Skype for it picking up my dog / vacuum cleaner etc. Dropped in price on Amazon.co.uk recently to £120.


 
  
 It's a PC350, which is a closed PC360, which is like a Sennheiser HD5x5.  The closed sennheisers (like PC350) have a smaller muddier soundstage than they're open counterparts. 
  
 I think by design most boom mics should pick up less up noise desktop mics.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-1-9-2014-shure-srh1840-added/19080#post_10075559


----------



## Mackem

chicolom said:


> Don't worry about the frequency response specs.
> 
> The "aux input" on the DSS is not for mics, it's for analog input signals (like an mp3 player).  AFAIK the only way to use a mic with the DSS is through the USB input, but I don't know how that works exactly as your headset has to be a USB headset similar to the Turtle Beach ones.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah I need a closed headset for gaming on a night since I share a room (Not by choice believe me..). I was going to get something like the M-Audio Q40s and change the earpads since the clamp is really strong out of the box and the ear pads aren't deep enough for my big ears. I can get the Q40s on sale in the UK for £49. I know they're closed and might not be optimal for gaming, but I figured I might as well get something that is good for music since I don't play a lot of games that require positional accuracy. Add something like a Modmic to them and I might be golden. 
  
 Not sure what to do though.


----------



## chicolom

mackem said:


> Yeah I need a closed headset for gaming on a night since I share a room (Not by choice believe me..). I was going to get something like the M-Audio Q40s and change the earpads since the clamp is really strong out of the box and the ear pads aren't deep enough for my big ears. I can get the Q40s on sale in the UK for £49. I know they're closed and might not be optimal for gaming, but I figured I might as well get something that is good for music since I don't play a lot of games that require positional accuracy. Add something like a Modmic to them and I might be golden.
> 
> Not sure what to do though.


 
  
 I see.
  
 You should check out the Sound Magic HP100.  They're closed have a surprisingly good soundstage for a closed headphone FWIR.


----------



## Mackem

chicolom said:


> I see.
> 
> You should check out the Sound Magic HP100.  They're closed have a surprisingly good soundstage for a closed headphone FWIR.


 
 I looked at those, but from the initial demo I had, the Q40s sounded like a less comfortable but better sounding DT770 Pro 80 in that they didn't sound distant / recessed. I think stretching out the Q40s and getting some deeper pads will be ideal, especially considering at the price I'm getting them it's a third of the price of the HP100 and almost a third of the price of the DT770 Pros.


----------



## mhknorth

I'm having a bit of trouble deciding on which set of headphones to go for. I've been using the HD555 for around 4 years now and they have served me well. I'm looking at either the X1's, Q701s, or K701's if they are worth the extra money. All I have right now is an on board soundcard PC and wonder, for cs:go (positional footsteps) and music (all over the place with a bit of bass), if I should grab a soundcard or if a desktop amp would be my go to thing?


----------



## Sam21

Hi, I just installed the driver software for Xonar U3, My understanding is that when the input is 2.0 or 5.1 , we can use Dolby pro logic IIx combined with Dolby Headphone, to create virtual 7.1. But I noticed in the driver software that Pro Logic IIx becomes available only when the input is set to 2.0 channels . when I set the input to 5.1(6) Pro Logic IIx disappears. why ?
  
  
  
 Another question: If we set the input channels to 7.1(8), turn on Dolby Headphone and 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter and then the games we play could output 2.0/5.1/7.1 , is it guaranteed that we get virtual 7.1 at all times ? no matter what the game outputs ? When the input is 7.1(8) Does the driver software detect how many channels are being outputted by the game(could be 2.0/5.1/7.1)( does the driver treat the signal as 7.1(8) or what is actually being outputted by the game[could be 2.0/5.1/7.1]) and does it automatically use pro logic IIx, if the game output is 2.0/5.1 ? or does it treat it as 7.1 input and pro logic IIx is bypassed ?


----------



## denois

Hello everyone, I'll be buying my first audiophile grade headphones and I need advice.
 I narrowed my options down to the X1 and the MA900. They are at a similar price range where I'm getting them from since I have to import them. I'll be getting either a Soundblaster Z or a Xonar DG(X) with them. I'll mostly be using it for gaming (%50), movies and music (%25 and %25 each). I listen to a very wide range of music and while I enjoy a good amount of bass, I wouldn't consider myself a basshead. I like to have good directional audio as I play FPS games quite often however I'm also into single player RPG games so immersion is a big factor as well.
 Additional notes: MA900's build quality is a bit of a put off for me but if they are as comfortable as everybody claims they are then that's a fair compromise. X1's look really sexy however the non-replaceable ear pads  concern me as I don't know how long they're going to last.
 So which headphone would be the best for me?


----------



## Jason Bourne

So I just got the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro's and Im wanting to use them for some late night blu-ray movie viewing (some gaming too) mainly with the PS3 and was wondering what would be the best route in providing them with virtual surround for blu-rays?! Was debating between the 2013 Mixamp Pro or the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB, any input appreciated especially with some running a similar setup.​


----------



## conquerator2

sam21 said:


> Hi, I just installed the driver software for Xonar U3, My understanding is that when the input is 2.0 or 5.1 , we can use Dolby pro logic IIx combined with Dolby Headphone, to create virtual 7.1. But I noticed in the driver software that Pro Logic IIx becomes available only when the input is set to 2.0 channels . when I set the input to 5.1(6) Pro Logic IIx disappears. why ?
> 
> 
> 
> Another question: If we set the input channels to 7.1(8), turn on Dolby Headphone and 7.1 Virtual Speaker Shifter and then the games we play could output 2.0/5.1/7.1 , is it guaranteed that we get virtual 7.1 at all times ? no matter what the game outputs ? When the input is 7.1(8) Does the driver software detect how many channels are being outputted by the game(could be 2.0/5.1/7.1)( does the driver treat the signal as 7.1(8) or what is actually being outputted by the game[could be 2.0/5.1/7.1]) and does it automatically use pro logic IIx, if the game output is 2.0/5.1 ? or does it treat it as 7.1 input and pro logic IIx is bypassed ?




Does the number of channels matter when you select DH?
I was under the impression it didn't (on PC, in the U3 software)


----------



## Sam21

conquerator2 said:


> Does the number of channels matter when you select DH?
> I was under the impression it didn't (on PC, in the U3 software)


 
 Not all games output 7.1, DH can turn 7.1 and 5.1 into virtual 7.1 and 5.1 respectively , My guess is that if you want to get virtual 7.1 regardless of what the game outputs, then you have to have the option to turn Pro Logic IIx on, which turns 5.1 into 7.1 and then feeds it into DH.'
  
 I have had a corsair vengeance 1500, and the driver software on it was as i described above, On U3 only when you set the input to 2.0 does the pro logic IIx appear as an option.
  
  
 I want someone who has proper knowledge of this to explain it to us...


----------



## rc10mike

Pro Logic IIx sole purpose in life is to take a 2ch source and turn it into virtual surround.
  
 Dolby Headphone on the other hand needs a minimum 5.1 Dolby Digital source to create surround.
  
 If you have a 2ch source, the best you can have for surround is PL IIx.
  
 Dolby Headphone > Pro Logic IIx


----------



## chicolom

rc10mike said:


> *Pro Logic IIx sole purpose in life is to take a 2ch source and turn it into virtual surround.*
> 
> Dolby Headphone on the other hand needs a minimum 5.1 Dolby Digital source to create surround.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually, that's not quite correct.
  
 Pro logic's sole purpose is to expand a 2 channel signal into a multi-channel signal.  Pro Logic by itself has nothing to do with _virtual _surround sound (since virtual surround is 2 channels).
  
 It's only when you combine Pro Logic's expanded multi-channel signal WITH Dolby Heapdhone that you get virtual surround.  Dolby Headphone needs a multi-channel source, so Pro Logic expands a 2 channel source into multi-channel so Dolby Headphone has something to work with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're not supposed to even bother with the 7.1 virtual speaker shift crap. 

If you have the U3:

Configure speakers to 7.1 in the sound device option (speaker icon on taskbar), in the u3 software, make sure you check dolby headphone and make sure its dh2. Thats all you need to do for DH. Setting to outout DH to another device however means messing with the digital output box.


----------



## ecjcc

chicolom said:


> Don't worry about the frequency response specs.
> 
> The "aux input" on the DSS is not for mics, it's for analog input signals (like an mp3 player).  AFAIK the only way to use a mic with the DSS is through the USB input, but I don't know how that works exactly as your headset has to be a USB headset similar to the Turtle Beach ones.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks,
  
 just for my layman knowledge, what would the difference in terms of surround, soundstage and pinpointing be between these 2 configs:
  
 1.- Just the Senn HD 598 from a powered source (for example, I guess a PC would do)
  
 2.- The Senn HD 598 + DSS1 from the PS4, assuming the DSS1 performs as an amplifier and as a DH 7.1 surround (did I well understand?)
  
 I mean, would the Senn by itself have a decent "surround"? If so, what does the 7.1 DSS1 add? Does it turn 2 channels into 7 virtual ones (+subwoofer), then improving surround in what what terms? Or what is the "gain" I will have thanks to the DSS1?
  
 And another doubt: do you think moving from a Senn RS 160 to a Senn HD 598(+DSS1) is quality worth it?
  
 Thks


----------



## rc10mike

chicolom said:


> Actually, that's not quite correct.
> 
> Pro logic's sole purpose is to expand a 2 channel signal into a multi-channel signal.  Pro Logic by itself has nothing to do with _virtual _surround sound (since virtual surround is 2 channels).
> 
> It's only when you combine Pro Logic's expanded multi-channel signal WITH Dolby Heapdhone that you get virtual surround.  Dolby Headphone needs a multi-channel source, so Pro Logic expands a 2 channel source into multi-channel so Dolby Headphone has something to work with.


 

 It is actually correct. Pro Logic takes two channels and makes surround. Since true surround is made from discrete channels, Pro Logic is essentially making virtual surround, or should I say "simulated surround".


----------



## rc10mike

ecjcc said:


> Thanks,
> 
> just for my layman knowledge, what would the difference in terms of surround, soundstage and pinpointing be between these 2 configs:
> 
> ...


 

 With the DDS1, you will have have simulated 5.1 surround (not 7.1) sound with your 598s. Without the DSS1, you will only have stereo sound. You will not have 7.1 because an optical connection is only capable of 5.1.


----------



## chicolom

rc10mike said:


> It is actually correct. Pro Logic takes two channels and makes surround. Since true surround is made from discrete channels, Pro Logic is essentially making virtual surround.


 
  
 But Pro Logic DOES produce discrete channels.  So it is real multi-channel surround sound.  It might not be accurate positional-wise, but it_ is_ multi-channel (discrete) surround.  There's nothing virtual about that.
  
 Actual virtual surround sound would be 2 channels + HTRFs (meaning it's simulating multi-channel surround from multiple speakers).


----------



## chicolom

ecjcc said:


> Thanks,
> 
> just for my layman knowledge, what would the difference in terms of surround, soundstage and pinpointing be between these 2 configs:
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 The HD598 doesn't have any "surround" by itself, it just has a good _soundstage_ - which will let it take advantage of virtual surround sound.
  
 It sounds like you're a little confused about what virtual surround sound is and how it works, so I'd recommend reading this:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400
  
 I don't know much about the RS 160 unfortunately.


----------



## rc10mike

chicolom said:


> But Pro Logic DOES produce discrete channels.  So it is real multi-channel surround sound.  It might not be accurate positional-wise, but it_ is_ multi-channel (discrete) surround.  There's nothing virtual about that.
> 
> Actual virtual surround sound would be 2 channels + HTRFs (meaning it's simulating multi-channel surround from multiple speakers).


 

 My point is Pro Logic processed surround made from a 2ch source will not be as good as a true 5.1 source being processed into Dolby Headphone. Think of it like trying to turn a 96kb MP3 into a 320kb MP3. You can do it, but the end result is still a 96kb MP3.


----------



## Sam21

Pro logic II turns 2 discreet channels into 5.1 channels.
 Pro logic II*x *turns 2.0 and 5.1 discreet channels into 7.1 channels.
  
  
 and then we have Pro Logic II*z*
  
 To Mad Lust Envy : 
  
 If we set the input to 7.1, and turn DH on, we always get virtual 7.1, no matter  what game we play ? [Games could output 7.1 or 5.1 channels]


----------



## rc10mike

sam21 said:


> Pro logic II turns 2 discreet channels into 5.1 channels.
> Pro logic II*x *turns 2.0 and 5.1 discreet channels into 7.1 channels.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Remember there is no free lunch. Pro Logic doesnt give you something that wasnt there in the source. If you want the best perfromance with Dolby Headphone, you need to have Dolby Digital 5.1 as the source, NOT pre-processed 2ch Pro Logic.


----------



## Sam21

rc10mike said:


> Remember there is no free lunch. Pro Logic doesnt give you something that wasnt there in the source. If you want the best perfromance with Dolby Headphone, you need to have Dolby Digital 5.1 as the source, NOT pre-processed 2ch Pro Logic.


 
  
 You mean a source that outputs 5.1 discreet channels?


----------



## chicolom

No one should be using Pro Logic for any modern PC or console game.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



*What's the difference between Pro Logic II and Dolby Headphone?/What is Pro Logic II?*

 
 Pro logic is mainly good for older consoles and devices that are limited to 2 channel output (such as the Wii).  In those cases, where the device is limited to 2 channel output, Pro Logic II is the next best alternative to having true multi channel audio.   
  
 Basically, there's two kinds of Pro Logic:  One is where you take a plain 2 channel signal and expand it to 5.1.  This is what will happen if you try and use Pro Logic with any modern console, as they only have plain stereo tracks and aren't encoded for Pro Logic II (because they don't need to be, as they have actual 5.1 tracks and output).
  
 The _other_ kind of Pro logic is where you actually encode your stereo track for Pro Logic II beforehand, then later decode it/expand it to multi-channel surround.  From Dolby: _"Stereo soundtracks, while maintaining compatibility with standard stereo playback, can also be encoded to deliver specific surround and localization effects when played through a Dolby Pro Logic II decoder." _ This is what devices like the Wii do.  When you encode a stereo track for Pro Logic, it adds certain spacial cues to the stereo signal that, when expanded later, do a more convincing job of emulating 5.1 surround than if you had just used a regular stereo signal as the source for that expansion.  
  
 Basically consoles like the Wii are aware of their limitation of only being able to output 2 channels, so as a partial workaround they choose to encode their stereo tracks with the Pro Logic II spatial cues.  It's obviously not as good as having true 5.1 channels, but it at least lets them upscale their 2 channel content to a 5.1 channel ouput (via any Pro Logic II decoding device such as a Home Theater AVR - or a _mixamp_) in a _more convincing_ matter than if they had just used a plain stereo signal. 
  So when you plug a 2 channel console like the Wii into a Mixamp, what happens is the Wii outputs its Pro Logic II encoded stereo signal to the mixamp, the Mixamp decodes that signal via its Pro Logic II decoder and simultaneously expands the signal to 5.1 (making use of those Pro Logic spatial cues in the process).  Finally the Mixamp takes that freshly upscaled 5.1 channel signal and encodes that into Dolby Headphone (a 2 channel stereo signal for use with your headphones).  On a modern console with Dolby Digital 5.1 output, none of those Pro Logic II steps are needed.  The console simply outputs DD 5.1 directly to the Mixamp, the Mixamp takes those 5 channels and converts them into Dolby Headphone, and you're good to go.
  
 Here is a description from Dolby about Pro Logic II as it pertains to gaming.
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/technology/gaming/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html 
  
 For modern gaming, Pro Logic II is not needed, as games and consoles are no longer limited to 2 channel output (like they were with the Wii, PS2, Gamecube, etc).  The game audio in modern PC and console games already support multi channel 5.1 surround, and the consoles are capable of multi-channel output already (Dolby Digital 5.1, etc).  So there is _no need_ to use Pro Logic, either to embed spatial cues into stereo tracks or even expand those stereo tracks in the first place.  Using Pro Logic would be unnecessary and inferior to using the _already-there_ 5.1 surround sound.  So really the only reason time you should be using Pro Logic II is if your gaming on a PS2, a GCN, or a Wii.  
  
 If your using Pro logic with a modern console or PC game, your doing it wrong.


----------



## benbenkr

Speaking of PLII, I was playing Xenogears on the PS3 the other day. Now, some may remember that Xenogears has an option of widening its stereo output like the way PLII does, a faux 5.1.
  
 For the heck of it, I did set the DSS into PLII mode and enabled the stereo wide option in the game and guess what... it sounded, surprisingly good. The midi soundtracks sounded more like an ochestra than midi, which is close in line to to the Xenogears Ochestra OST album. Obviously, it isn't suppose to sound like that and it isn't a correct way of listening to a game.
  
 But hey, Xenogears... 1998, an RPG... who cares right? 
  
 Those who have it on the PS3 (or even still a PS1), try it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sam21 said:


> Pro logic II turns 2 discreet channels into 5.1 channels.
> Pro logic II*x *turns 2.0 and 5.1 discreet channels into 7.1 channels.
> 
> 
> ...




No. The game must have discrete channels built into its sound. For example, lots of indie games only do stereo.

But for most standard titles, yes, you'll get surround.

If listening to music, just uncheck the DH button in the U3 software settings.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Do I have to explain Dolby Pro Logic II again?
  
 For our purposes, it's a DECODER. Enabling that decoder on a two-channel signal with no Pro Logic channel data matrixed into it (usually with out-of-phase trickery for the rear channels) is completely pointless, like trying to somehow enable a Dolby Digital or DTS decoder on a two-channel PCM stream.
  
 It's just that the Dolby Digital and DTS decoders can be automatically enabled and disabled as needed, since it's easy for a device to tell what kind of signal it's getting over S/PDIF and HDMI. Analog inputs? Not so much, hence why Pro Logic needs to be manually switched.
  
 There are Pro Logic II channel tests out there to tell you whether it's working right or not. SoulCalibur II had one built-in, for an example off the top of my head, and you could probably find some environmental sound in Metroid Prime to test with.
  
 Yes, discrete surround is better than matrixed surround; there's inherently less crosstalk when you can keep the signals separate. But even matrixed surround, decoded properly by a device that supports it, is better than just plain stereo.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

change is good said:


> @JamesFiiO
> , can you *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!!
> 
> Everyone who agrees quote me with a _+1_
> ...






Spoiler: Lots of plus-1s






evshrug said:


> +2
> Using a FiiO E17 with a surround DSP added would easily blow the competition away, but HDMI passthrough (instead of coaxial?) would make it future-proof.
> 
> (Is this posted on a FiiO page? And if so, which one?)







mad lust envy said:


> +1
> 
> 10/10 would do again







mad lust envy said:


> JamesFiiO
> 
> Seriously, I have been a Fiio fan since picking up the E5 as my very first amp.
> 
> ...







change is good said:


> +1 on the E17 similarity but without the rechargeable battery, please (strictly USB powered like the mixamp, Recon USB, DSS, etc). I think we all would prefer more internal room for better performance...






I don't know... I'm looking at these posts but I'm not familiar with this market. I know the principle--preset a device as a 7.1 sound card to the PC, funnel the 8 channels received into 2 channel headphone output via HRTF processing, add a mic input for those in-game group calls... so can somebody summarize the current offerings on the market? And what do you guys find lacking about them? Is it mainly a lack of amplifier fidelity? So you want us to do the same thing as they are doing, but with a better amp section, maybe a line out and digital out for connecting to even better DACs and amps? Or is there something you want us to do better about the digital processing section too?


----------



## AxelCloris

joe bloggs said:


> I don't know... I'm looking at these posts but I'm not familiar with this market. I know the principle--preset a device as a 7.1 sound card to the PC, funnel the 8 channels received into 2 channel headphone output via HRTF processing, add a mic input for those in-game group calls... so can somebody summarize the current offerings on the market? And what do you guys find lacking about them? Is it mainly a lack of amplifier fidelity? So you want us to do the same thing as they are doing, but with a better amp section, maybe a line out and digital out for connecting to even better DACs and amps? Or is there something you want us to do better about the digital processing section too?


 
  
 We want a better DAC, better amp, multiple inputs, and of course mic input for chat with console support. I'd love for it to have USB input as well for PC and console gaming. There's only one device that I know of that can natively handle console, PC and Mac gaming without additional hardware, and that's the Creative Recon3D USB. I'd love for a device from Fiio that directly competes with it and has multiple inputs with Fiio's better amps and DAC. Currently I have to amp off my Recon3D to get the best sound.
  
 Console
 Astro Mixamp
 Creative Recon3D USB
 Tritton 720+ 
 Turtle Beach DSS
  
 PC
 Asus Xonar U1/2/3/7
 Creative Recon3D USB
 Creative Sound Blaster Omni
 Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi
  
 Mac
 Creative Recon3D USB
 Creative Sound Blaster Omni
  
 There may be more than this out there but these are all the ones that are coming to mind. I can update the list if people have more that I'm overlooking or forgetting. This list is specifically devices that let you bring your own headphones. Devices that are exclusively paired with a single headset should not be considered.


----------



## Fegefeuer

All current devices that do HRTF processing are generally bad with the exception of the Beyerdynamic Headzone which is very expensive or let's say too expensive for the gamer market (plus it doesn't have voice support) so excluding that device we are left with generally bad devices with high impedance outputs, low frequency cutoff (35Hz), hiss, high noisefloor, bad amping in general. We have no better choice, it's downright sad. 
  
 The current best offer is the Astro Gaming Mixamp which uses Dolby Headphone like most of these devices actually (beyerdynamic is using their own formula). It suffers from hiss, high noise floor, doesn't extend below 35Hz and has an impedance out of ridiculous 32Ohms, yet it's better than all others. That's how bad the situation is.
  
 The features you mentioned are what we actually want:
  
_Console/PC with Dolby Digital and DTS (would be best if possible) output--> FiiO Device with Dolby Headphone (DH 2)/AstoundSound/DTS Headphone X, any current good HRTF DSP-> binaural stereo signal -> Headphone Out_
  
 Low impedance output, better amp section. The possibility to output the fully processed binaural stereo signal to digital out for other dac/amps would be superb actually.


----------



## 1llest

Can you adjust Chat volume with the Creative Recon3D usb? And is it better than the astro mixamp?


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> We want a better DAC, better amp, multiple inputs, and of course mic input for chat with console support. I'd love for it to have USB input as well for PC and console gaming. There's only one device that I know of that can natively handle console, PC and Mac gaming without additional hardware, and that's the Creative Recon3D USB. I'd love for a device from Fiio that directly competes with it and has multiple inputs with Fiio's better amps and DAC. Currently I have to amp off my Recon3D to get the best sound.
> 
> Console
> Astro Mixamp
> ...


 
 I guess a DAC/amp unit, like the E17, that supports DTS processing [Dolby Headphone mainly], has digital inputs [optical, usb, HDMI], possible some analogue inputs [RCA in, line in] a headphone out and possibly an HDMI output too. We need the outputs to output the DSP processed sound too.
 It would be cool if it could stand as a DSP processor only [like the U3 can] so we can connect our own DAC/amps to it as well.
 Works with both PC and consoles. I don't personally mind either if the unit runs off DC or usb power.
 An all-in-one gaming unit basically.


----------



## chicolom

joe bloggs said:


> I don't know... I'm looking at these posts but I'm not familiar with this market. I know the principle--preset a device as a 7.1 sound card to the PC, funnel the 8 channels received into 2 channel headphone output via HRTF processing, add a mic input for those in-game group calls... so can somebody summarize the current offerings on the market? And what do you guys find lacking about them? Is it mainly a lack of amplifier fidelity? So you want us to do the same thing as they are doing, *but with a better amp section, maybe a line out and digital out for connecting to even better DACs and amps? Or is there something you want us to do better about the digital processing section too?*


 
  
 You're on the right track...
  
 Also, we went ahead and made a dedicated thread for it here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio


----------



## AxelCloris

1llest said:


> Can you adjust Chat volume with the Creative Recon3D usb? And is it better than the astro mixamp?


 
  
 If you're asking can you increase the chat volume in my headset like the Mixamp, yes I can in the Recon's software settings. But it's not something you can do while on the console, you have to set it beforehand. If you're asking about boosting it for others to hear, no idea. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily better than the Mixamp. The Recon handles THX TrueSound and the Mixamp does Dolby Headphone. They're different and everyone has preferences. I personally like both. I chose the Recon as it has native Mac support and I game on Mac and PC.
  


conquerator2 said:


> I guess a DAC/amp unit, like the E17, that supports DTS processing [Dolby Headphone mainly], has digital inputs [optical, usb, HDMI],a headphone out and possibly an HDMI output too.
> It would be cool if it could stand as a DSP processor only [like the U3 can] so we can connect our own DAC/amps to it as well.


 
  
 The digital output could be useful to console gamers, I'll agree. I feel that with PC gaming most will just run an integrated card out to my DAC/amp and go from there. So if they can integrate a digital out it might help console gamers. I'd still prefer to see better integrated components than those in the Mixamp and Recon3D so another DAC/amp won't be needed.


----------



## retiredat21

Does anyone know the difference between the creative recon3d and the soundblaster omni surround? Features seem the same.. but im not really sure..


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> Does anyone know the difference between the creative recon3d and the soundblaster omni surround? Features seem the same.. but im not really sure..


 
  
 Recon3D can be used with consoles. The Omni is computer only. The optical on the Omni is an output.


----------



## retiredat21

axelcloris said:


> Recon3D can be used with consoles. The Omni is computer only. The optical on the Omni is an output.


thanks for the reply.. how about sound quality.. thx surround and sbx surround. Are they the same?


----------



## noswej

Hey all, I'm looking for something specific and thought this thread could be the right place to ask. Summary:
 - Headphones must be *closed* and *over ear*.
 - Purpose:  *PC* Gaming for fun, fps, rts, rpg etc. Movies and music (electro, chill, drum n bass, rock). Must isolate sound.
 - I am in Australia, land of the everything overpriced. Amazon does ship, but not all models etc.
 - Price range is about $200-300. <$200 is even better
 - Have no amp/soundcard

 Thanks for any help, it is greatly appreciated!


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> thanks for the reply.. how about sound quality.. thx surround and sbx surround. Are they the same?


 
  
 Unfortunately I've never heard the Omni. I'd like to at some point but since I haven't I can't comment on the sound quality or the SBX. THX sounds nice to my ears. The Recon3D is decent at powering headphones, but it's not great. I have run my HD650 directly off it in the past. But that was before I got my E12. And now the E12 is always topped up to be ready for gaming.
  
 Random note. I can't talk about specifics, but the soundtrack in Elder Scrolls Online is lovely. The sound design still has a bit to go, but it's getting better.
  
 Edit: Oh hey, 1000 posts. Whee.


----------



## AxelCloris

noswej said:


> Hey all, I'm looking for something specific and thought this thread could be the right place to ask. Summary:
> - Headphones must be *closed* and *over ear*.
> - Purpose:  *PC* Gaming for fun, fps, rts, rpg etc. Movies and music (electro, chill, drum n bass, rock). Must isolate sound.
> - I am in Australia, land of the everything overpriced. Amazon does ship, but not all models etc.
> ...


 
  
 So does the $300 max budget include buying a soundcard and amp?


----------



## noswej

The budget includes everything yes. I've never used a soundcard or amp before and thought it would be easier to just get headphones. Is that wrong?


----------



## martin vegas

Are these any good?


----------



## AxelCloris

noswej said:


> The budget includes everything yes. I've never used a soundcard or amp before and thought it would be easier to just get headphones. Is that wrong?


 
  
 Well I'd recommend at least having a soundcard that can output in a surround signal. Something that can handle Dolby Headphone, THX TruSurround, CMSS-3D, etc. You can do this easily and relatively cheaply, pair it with a decent starter amp and then get a quality pair of headphones.
  
 For example, you can do a nice soundcard that has a decent amp in it and a pair of Creative Aurvana Live for under $250. The CAL aren't power hungry so you don't need a super-amp to drive them.


----------



## noswej

Other headfi'ers have suggested mr speakers maddog with no amp/soundcard or the AKG K550 with no amp/soundcard (the no card was my idea, but these were given as good options). This would cost me $330-350 (mrspeaker) or $280 (AKG), would the option you suggested result in better quality all round?
  
  
 thanks for the help by the way


----------



## AxelCloris

noswej said:


> Other headfi'ers have suggested mr speakers maddog with no amp/soundcard or the AKG K550 with no amp/soundcard (the no card was my idea, but these were given as good options). This would cost me $330-350 (mrspeaker) or $280 (AKG), would the option you suggested result in better quality all round?
> 
> 
> thanks for the help by the way


 
  
 My Mad Dogs are super enjoyable for immersive games. No doubt about that. I'd still recommend a surround sound card. If you want to go that route at least get a card like the Asus U3 or a budget internal card to go with them. Surround sound makes a big difference, honestly. Skyrim is AMAZING when you have a good surround processor.
  
 I recommend against the K550. I love AKG, but I find the K550 lifeless and dull. And they have loose fit issues. I love both analytical and fun headphones, and the K550 is neither of those.
  
 I'd be lying if I said I never ran my Mad Dogs off a computer directly. They're very nice headphones, especially with the Alpha pads. They do benefit from power, but they sound decent without an amp. I don't know prices in Australia on cards, but something like the Asus Xonar DG or the Xonar U3 can be had for $30 in the US and will give you Dolby Headphone. I'm not the most knowledgeable with soundcards; usually Nameless or Purple are the ones to answer those questions.


----------



## noswej

Ok, well it looks like i can get an Asus Xonar DG or Xonar U3 for about $30. I have a msi 7673 mother board, is that compatible? Are soundcards easy to install?

 If i don't get a soundcard/amp, what would be a good recommendation for a closed, over ear headphone for up to $300?
  
 2 of the cheaper headphones on the list are the skullcandy slyr and the audio technica ath-m50, would either of those work without a soundcard/amp?


----------



## AxelCloris

noswej said:


> Ok, well it looks like i can get an Asus Xonar DG or Xonar U3 for about $30. I have a msi 7673 mother board, is that compatible? Are soundcards easy to install?
> 
> If i don't get a soundcard/amp, what would be a good recommendation for a closed, over ear headphone for up to $300?
> 
> 2 of the cheaper headphones on the list are the skullcandy slyr and the audio technica ath-m50, would either of those work without a soundcard/amp?


 
  
 It looks like the MS-7673 does support PCI cards, so the Xonar DG would work with it. The U3 is USB based. And soundcards are super simple to install. Very easy upgrades. Your motherboard has integrated audio, the Realtek® ALC892, so you'll get sound out of it without a dedicated soundcard. Keep in mind by doing this you'll be plugging up to $300 headphones into a $1.50 audio device that can only give you stereo sound at low resolutions. Some people game in stereo but this thread is specifically about gaming with surround sound. No matter what headphones you end up getting I'd recommend having something to give you surround sound.
  
 The SLYR and M50 don't require amps. No dynamic headphone requires an amp to produce sound. The amp just improves the quality and volume they produce. With the SLYR and a Xonar DG you'll have a very nice set to get you started. If you don't need the microphone of the SLYR I'd say go with the CAL instead.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

axelcloris said:


> We want a better DAC, better amp, multiple inputs, and of course mic input for chat with console support. I'd love for it to have USB input as well for PC and console gaming. There's only one device that I know of that can natively handle console, PC and Mac gaming without additional hardware, and that's the Creative Recon3D USB. I'd love for a device from Fiio that directly competes with it and has multiple inputs with Fiio's better amps and DAC. Currently I have to amp off my Recon3D to get the best sound.




You mention that the Recon3D USB works on console, PC and Mac. I can see it presenting itself to the latter two as a USB soundcard. On the other hand, it receives signals from consoles via optical? This would be a Dolby Digital or DTS signal right? Where does Dolby Headphone or GenAudio Astoundsound come into this? As far as I know these are handled by the computer / console and output a processed stereo output that would only need to be amplified or decoded in the case of a digital output (insofar as all digital output need to be decoded by a DAC like the E18)?


----------



## AxelCloris

joe bloggs said:


> You mention that the Recon3D USB works on console, PC and Mac. I can see it presenting itself to the latter two as a USB soundcard. On the other hand, it receives signals from consoles via optical? This would be a Dolby Digital or DTS signal right? Where does Dolby Headphone or GenAudio Astoundsound come into this? As far as I know these are handled by the computer / console and output a processed stereo output that would only need to be amplified or decoded in the case of a digital output (insofar as all digital output need to be decoded by a DAC like the E18)?


 
  
 The Recon3D USB has USB and toslink inputs. It does present itself as a soundcard to computers. For consoles it's simply an external DAC coming in over toslink. It handles THX TruSurround, a competitor of sorts to Dolby Headphone. The computer/comsole handles the Dolby Digital signal and is sent as such to the Recon3D. The same is true for the Astro Mixamp. They take the 5.1 Dolby Digital signal and then decode it. At that point it's processed through the THX TruSurround, Dolby Headphone, or any of the other surround DSPs. I believe this is all done within the DAC circuitry and software. Finally it's sent through the amp and out to the headphones.


----------



## Moskrilla

Just following up, the AKG 712 Pro's arrived today and sound absolutely incredible. Really appreciate all the replies and the extra info from @evshrug and everyone else!


----------



## Evshrug

joe bloggs said:


> You mention that the Recon3D USB works on console, PC and Mac. I can see it presenting itself to the latter two as a USB soundcard. On the other hand, it receives signals from consoles via optical? This would be a Dolby Digital or DTS signal right? Where does Dolby Headphone or GenAudio Astoundsound come into this? As far as I know these are handled by the computer / console and output a processed stereo output that would only need to be amplified or decoded in the case of a digital output (insofar as all digital output need to be decoded by a DAC like the E18)?




On computers, the Recon3D USB connects via USB like your FiiO DACs, but it has drivers to enable settings and identify it's available resources (surround decoding) to the computer and games. For consoles, it has an optical input that takes the Dolby Digital Live 5.1 signal that would be normally sent to a home theater speaker system. It would be nice to have two optical inputs for two consoles, but that's a secondary goal. Here's basically what we, as consumers, have figured out about these surround processors, with Creative's Sound Blaster Recon3D USB as an example:

- Computer or console sends a Dolby Digital Live (or in some cases a DTS Connect) signal out, digitally. These encoded signals have already split the sounds into positional channels corresponding to where 5.1 or 7.1 speakers would be placed in a typical home theater setup.
- The Recon3D receives that home theater mixed sound, and uses a licensed decoder to understand the DDL or DTS signal
- the Recon3D applies a Head Transfer Related Function (HRTF) encoder to create a stereo virtual surround mix for headphones, the Recon3D's HRTF is called THX TrueStudio Pro (perhaps available for licensing from THX?) but other processors use Dolby Headphone to do the same thing.
- At this point the audio is a common 2 channel stereo mix, so that is transferred to a DAC, and then an Amp.

So basically, the external device needs a processor and some licensed software to convert home theater surround into headphone virtual surround, after that is just basically the hardware which is FiiO's strength and where the current products are weak. OpenAL and TrueAudio are kinda special cases, may be beyond FiiO's scope to implement those (and games have to have been created with support built-in), so I'd suggest just looking at HRTF's that can convert the common home-theater surround. Microphone input with a computer is easy, unfortunately each console is different (I believe the PS3 uses USB? Can anyone confirm?). It might be best for FiiO to start out with a more simple device, like an improved Turtle Beach DSS. Some HRTFs that FiiO may be able to use could be:

- Dolby Headphone (mode 2, or DH2, is used by the Astro Mixamp, Asus Xonar products, Turtle Beach DSS (the first one), Tritton's AX720+ processor, and others)
- Cirrus Logic (headphone surround? Name of the processing isn't clear, Cirrus Logic is the company)
- AstoundSound (by GenAudio, I don't have enough info for you to say it can process any 5.1 or 7.1 mix)
- THX TrueStudio Pro (may be a Creative exclusive, but maybe THX could license it to you?)

FiiO probably could NOT use CMSS-3D or SBX ProStudio, I doubt Creative would license this to a competitor... But who knows? DH isn't my personal 1st place favourite, but I do like it and use it, pretty much everyone here would be happy with DH2 processing. A few of us here thought FiiO was already doing this when your company announced the D5 DAC, but it wasn't what we had hoped (5.1 to 2.0 headphone virtual surround processor and DAC).

Thanks for checking this idea out! Headphones + gaming still has untapped potential, we gamers realize this would be a bit of an expansion to your current target market, but it's awesome to get your attention and we'll try to help if you need it.






moskrilla said:


> [COLOR=222222]Just following up, the AKG 712 Pro's arrived today and sound absolutely incredible. Really appreciate all the replies and the extra info from @evshrug and everyone else![/COLOR]



Rock on man!


----------



## Jason Bourne

jason bourne said:


> So I just got the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro's and Im wanting to use them for some late night blu-ray movie viewing (some gaming too) mainly with the PS3 and was wondering what would be the best route in providing them with virtual surround for blu-rays?! Was debating between the 2013 Mixamp Pro or the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB, any input appreciated especially with some running a similar setup.​


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## Change is Good

jason bourne said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 It all depends on which kind of surround sound you prefer. The mixamp has Dolby Headphone while the Recon 3D has THX TruStudio Pro. Check the videos provided on the front of the guide and make your choice based on that. Don't let one of us make the decision for you...
  
 By the way, Mad, I see (as others have mentioned) that the surround sound processors section is missing/deleted... in case you didn't notice that when they mentioned it. And also, thanks for returning everything safe and sound


----------



## noswej

Ok so upon further consideration, I think i'm happy to get a reasonable pair of headphones <$150 and pair them with a soundcard or amp.

 So for a closed, over ear headphone which is good for gaming, is the CAL! the best?
 Is the CAL!2 any good? it has an in line mic i could use for chat i guess.
  
 With sound cards the Xonar Asus DG would be best? Is there value in external DAC vs sound card or rather what is the difference in quality?
  
 Any recommendations are welcome and help is appreciated!


----------



## kraken2109

noswej said:


> Ok so upon further consideration, I think i'm happy to get a reasonable pair of headphones <$150 and pair them with a soundcard or amp.
> 
> So for a closed, over ear headphone which is good for gaming, is the CAL! the best?
> Is the CAL!2 any good? it has an in line mic i could use for chat i guess.
> ...


 

 Bear in mind you'd need an adapter to use the mic with a PC if it's designed for phones.
 As for soundcards vs external, generally soundcards are a good cheap option (since money isn't spent on box, power supply etc) but in the high end I'd go with an external.


----------



## junrin

Hey, just wondering if anyone would review the upcoming audio technica ATH-ADG1 and AG1, the latter being the closed version.


----------



## denois

denois said:


> Hello everyone, I'll be buying my first audiophile grade headphones and I need advice.
> I narrowed my options down to the X1 and the MA900. They are at a similar price range where I'm getting them from since I have to import them. I'll be getting either a Soundblaster Z or a Xonar DG(X) with them. I'll mostly be using it for gaming (%50), movies and music (%25 and %25 each). I listen to a very wide range of music and while I enjoy a good amount of bass, I wouldn't consider myself a basshead. I like to have good directional audio as I play FPS games quite often however I'm also into single player RPG games so immersion is a big factor as well.
> Additional notes: MA900's build quality is a bit of a put off for me but if they are as comfortable as everybody claims they are then that's a fair compromise. X1's look really sexy however the non-replaceable ear pads  concern me as I don't know how long they're going to last.
> So which headphone would be the best for me?


 
 Guys, I realize this may have been asked before but I couldn't find a definitive answer. I know it's really subjective, but given my considerations and the similar prices, can anybody help out? (I bought the SBZ)


----------



## SaLX

> Hey, just wondering if anyone would review the upcoming audio technica ATH-ADG1 and AG1, the latter being the closed version.


 
 They've only been released in Australia so far I believe, and there are precious few reviews of them from down under. Wait till the global release.
   





> Guys, I realize this may have been asked before but I couldn't find a definitive answer. I know it's really subjective, but given my considerations and the similar prices, can anybody help out? (I bought the SBZ)


 
 I have the SBZ with the X1 and they pair really well. I've not heard the MA900, but as you'll have read here, you can't go wrong with them. Don't worry about the non-replaceable pads on the X1- keep it on a headstand and they'll last a long time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got a little too spoiler tag happy, and forgot to end the last one o the 1840 review, which is why everything is hidden in the last 1840 spoiler tag.

I'll fix it asap.

My phone keeps crashing before I edit, so... should be fixed soonish.

If any of you own the MA900 and want more bass... just get the 1840 pads. The MA900 rumbles like a closed headphone. Still sounds good for competitive gaming, though obviously not as good as the stock pads. Still, the comfort boost is amazing. I could see me using the pads for everything except music.


----------



## JBrown2272

Hey guys I just bought the beyerdynamic dt990 pro's and am looking to hook it up to my ps4.  I have a yamaha receiver with silent cinema but I am thinking that I will need more power to have them sound like I would like them to.  Is there an amp that allows me to get dolby 5.1(7.1) to my headphones from the ps4?  I know the Astro mixamp is popular but I don't think it's going to have enough power for them.  Any suggestions?


----------



## kraken2109

jbrown2272 said:


> Hey guys I just bought the beyerdynamic dt990 pro's and am looking to hook it up to my ps4.  I have a yamaha receiver with silent cinema but I am thinking that I will need more power to have them sound like I would like them to.  Is there an amp that allows me to get dolby 5.1(7.1) to my headphones from the ps4?  I know the Astro mixamp is popular but I don't think it's going to have enough power for them.  Any suggestions?


 

 I'd recommend trying them with your receiver first, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## martin vegas

Does anyone know if you can get sound out from a OUYA console through usb..my monitor has no speakers, I use dac amp and speakers and my headset. thinking of getting one!


----------



## JBrown2272

Thanks for the reply.   Yes that would be awesome if the receiver will work for them.  It will definitely save me some money.  I don't mind spending the money to make them sound good but if I don't have to then that's fine by me as well.


----------



## Jason Bourne

change is good said:


> It all depends on which kind of surround sound you prefer. The mixamp has Dolby Headphone while the Recon 3D has THX TruStudio Pro. Check the videos provided on the front of the guide and make your choice based on that. Don't let one of us make the decision for you...
> 
> By the way, Mad, I see (as others have mentioned) that the surround sound processors section is missing/deleted... in case you didn't notice that when they mentioned it. And also, thanks for returning everything safe and sound


 
  
 Thanks for the post! I think the Dolby Headphone sounds better, MixAmp it is then! Wondering which amp to throw into the mix now with the Beyerdynamic 990 Pro's + MixAmp, the Fiio E12 or the Schiit Magni. The E12's nice and portable but the Magni can be very easily paired up with the Modi to offer a nice AMP/DAC for non gaming use.... hmmm.... Although Ill probably have to setup an additional ac adapter at my desk so the Magni can easily travel between my PS3 and desktop area.


----------



## motorwayne

evshrug said:


> FiiO probably could NOT use CMSS-3D or SBX ProStudio, I doubt Creative would license this to a competitor... But who knows? DH isn't my personal 1st place favourite, but I do like it and use it, pretty much everyone here would be happy with DH2 processing. A few of us here thought FiiO was already doing this when your company announced the D5 DAC, but it wasn't what we had hoped (5.1 to 2.0 headphone virtual surround processor and DAC).


 


> I would have to say, (subjective) that if FiiO was to use DH as it's 3D model going forward, their product would soon be left behind as inferior. I have used all of the above plus others over the last 25 years extensively in the FPS gaming environment via headphones, and in my opinion HD would come last every time out of the current up to date offerings and as you say "isn't my personal favorite". It is not broken, it's just not anywhere near the best and people are wanting better. That being said, I understand there are competitive licensing issues that my stop them using something else, but who knows, times are a changing.





> A competitive sound environment is going to require more than DH.


----------



## noswej

About to buy creative aurvana live 1! or skullcandy slyr, mic dependent. Just before i do, can i ask why the *Creative aurvana live! 2* are not reviewed or recommended as much? They look more sturdy than the CAL 1.


----------



## Fegefeuer

motorwayne said:


> > I would have to say, (subjective) that if FiiO was to use DH as it's 3D model going forward, their product would soon be left behind as inferior. I have used all of the above plus others over the last 25 years extensively in the FPS gaming environment via headphones, and in my opinion HD would come last every time out of the current up to date offerings and as you say "isn't my personal favorite". It is not broken, it's just not anywhere near the best and people are wanting better. That being said, I understand there are competitive licensing issues that my stop them using something else, but who knows, times are a changing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What's your suggestion then?


----------



## chicolom

motorwayne said:


> > I would have to say, (subjective) that if FiiO was to use DH as it's 3D model going forward, their product would soon be left behind as inferior. I have used all of the above plus others over the last 25 years extensively in the FPS gaming environment via headphones, and in my opinion HD would come last every time out of the current up to date offerings and as you say "isn't my personal favorite". It is not broken, it's just not anywhere near the best and people are wanting better. That being said, I understand there are competitive licensing issues that my stop them using something else, but who knows, times are a changing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What would you suggest instead (keeping in mind potential license issues)?


----------



## AxelCloris

noswej said:


> About to buy creative aurvana live 1! or skullcandy slyr, mic dependent. Just before i do, can i ask why the *Creative aurvana live! 2* are not reviewed or recommended as much? They look more sturdy than the CAL 1.


 
  
 They're inferior in sound quality and cost more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have yet to hear any virtual surround give the sense of space that DH does. Yes, it's the one to sound LEAST like a headphone, and more like sounds are coming from everywhere, especially when it comes to rear positional cues. SBX would be my second choice.

The only one I personally felt to do it better was Beyerdynamic's Headzone, which sounded just as open, and less processed. That baby doesn't come cheap.

SBX, THX TS, etc all have very good surround emulation, but they sound like headphones being expanded. I'm still aware of what I'm wearing when I listen to those demos. DH's effect is quite different.


----------



## motorwayne

chicolom said:


> What would you suggest instead (keeping in mind potential license issues)?


 
 I really don't have an answer yet for this as it is a dilemma. The way forward may not be available yet?


----------



## martin vegas

Don't all answer at once!


----------



## DADDYDC650

I just finished installing my old Turtle Beach DSS and since my X1 with the BoomPro have yet to arrive, I decided to have a listen with my generic no name headphones. Damn! What a difference my DSS makes in BF4 on my PS4. Better clarity, hard hitting bass and a nice sound stage. I wonder what the X1 will sound like. ...


----------



## Guymelef

I want Dolby Headphone for consoles.
 My options:
 Ear Force DSS (first version) 65€
 Astro Mixamp 135€
 Ear Force DSS2 (50€)
 I use a external USB mic with PS4 so i don't need mic input in the decoder, is the first DSS quality as good as Astro Mixamp??? (it's half the price) 
 Do i need an amp or something with those devices and Sony MDR-MA900?
 Can the Ear Force be used in PC for DH?
 Thanks.


----------



## Woesty420

k612s vs. HD598s. 
  
_*If anyone has tested both of them, opinions would be greatly appreciated. *_
  
 I can get both at roughly the same price and I've heard good things about both and is make it extremely hard to pick. 
  
 I've read that the k612s are very natural sounding with forward mids which I know is beneficial for gunshots and footsteps. I've also read that they can lack bass and some music genres won't be as nice on these. Some people also complain about the headband getting sore or uncomfortable, but it doesn't look like much of an issue to me. 
  
 As for the HD598s, they are said to have a wide and open sound stage and to be excellent for gaming. Also, heard they lack bass too but can do more genres, not sure which is worse. They are said to be more fun sounding while the 612s I heard will maybe lose the fun factor. As for comfort I haven't heard any complaints. Removable cable is also a nice feature.
  
 I listen to all music genres, with raw acoustic and metal being my favorites. But can't forget the classics. For gaming, I basically stick to FPS so I obviously want a great sound stage.
  
 Leave any negatives or positives, as both will help me decide.


----------



## DADDYDC650

So, my Philips X1 and the BoomPro arrived today. I connected the audio jack to my Turtle Beach DSS and the mic to my PS4 controller's audio jack. via a Y cable. The sound is fantastic except I can't get the microphone to work at all. Can anyone provide some assistance?


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> So, my Philips X1 and the BoomPro arrived today. I connected the audio jack to my Turtle Beach DSS and the mic to my PS4 controller's audio jack. via a Y cable. The sound is fantastic except I can't get the microphone to work at all. Can anyone provide some assistance?




Third party mics don't work with the DSS (so I've been told).


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> Third party mics don't work with the DSS (so I've been told).


 
 That blows! I guess I'll return the V-MODA BoomPro since I already have a mic for my PC and it doesn't work on the PS4 the way I want it to work using the TB DSS. Hopefully Astro will release a proper headset that works with the PS4 AND Xbox One. The wait sucks!


----------



## Evshrug

motorwayne said:


> > I would have to say, (subjective) that if FiiO was to use DH as it's 3D model going forward, their product would soon be left behind as inferior. I have used all of the above plus others over the last 25 years extensively in the FPS gaming environment via headphones, and in my opinion HD would come last every time out of the current up to date offerings and as you say "isn't my personal favorite". It is not broken, it's just not anywhere near the best and people are wanting better. That being said, I understand there are competitive licensing issues that my stop them using something else, but who knows, times are a changing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should probably be posting this on FiiO's petition page.
I think of DH and other virtual surround processing based on reprocessing 7.1 "home theater" surround as being 2D; it's a flat plane with no height cues.

I understand why you want 3D surround sound... so do I! But at this point, 3D surround must be something that developers integrated into the game when they were making it. That is beyond FiiO's control. Creative tried promoting OpenAL for a while, but essentially the gaming industry forgot about it. AMD's new integrated TrueAudio is still going to need games writing support for it, and the sound processing will probably be done on AMD parts before it is ever sent to an output.
The fact of the matter is that DH and it's 2D virtual surround peers are more universal. The console is still processing where sounds are directed, and external devices can only re-process this "home theater" designed 2D surround. More may be possible with a PC and designing an external soundcard, but it's still up to developers to integrate a 3D library of sounds into their game. Unless GenAudio is approachable by others and don't have an exclusivity contract with AMD, it would be impractical for FiiO to pursue a 3D surround setup.

That said, 2D surround is still a big competitive step up from 1D stereo, and the majority of the gamer market hasn't yet even experienced surround at this level with headphones. This fact and the more universal compatibility of 2D headphone surround is why I argue that, until the landscape changes (or FiiO grows and has the R&D to change it themselves), a 2D surround encoder is the practical direction FiiO should/could aim for today.






change is good said:


> Third party mics don't work with the DSS (so I've been told).



The DSS itself is only "compatible" with Turtle Beach mics built into their headsets... what you do is connect the mic directly to the console's mic input. I think this is what DADDYDC650 was trying to do anyway, when he mentioned the Y-cable.



daddydc650 said:


> That blows! I guess I'll return the V-MODA BoomPro since I already have a mic for my PC and it doesn't work on the PS4 the way I want it to work using the TB DSS. Hopefully Astro will release a proper headset that works with the PS4 AND Xbox One. The wait sucks!



Before returning the boompro, I'd wait to hear from Mad how he has his "3rd party mic" connected to the PS4. The DSS doesn't have to be involved with the mic signal chain to get the mic working.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Before returning the boompro, I'd wait to hear from Mad how he has his "3rd party mic" connected to the PS4. The DSS doesn't have to be involved with the mic signal chain to get the mic working.


 
  
 I'm using a mic plugged into the mixamp with my PS4. As I've mentioned before, it works just fine (that way) as long as you register the controller before the mixamp when it prompts "which user is using this device"
  
 If he wants to use the boompro and get both chat and audio through it, using the DSS is out of the question (I would assume)... and the mixamp would be the ideal choice. If he gets a separate mic, however, then he can just plug that into the DS4 and the headphones to the DSS.


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> That blows! I guess I'll return the V-MODA BoomPro since I already have a mic for my PC and it doesn't work on the PS4 the way I want it to work using the TB DSS.* Hopefully Astro will release a proper headset* that works with the PS4 AND Xbox One. The wait sucks!


 

  
  
 Any headset that Astro releases is just going to be another A40/A50 derivative, which is going to pale in comparison next to the sound quality of the X1.
  
  


evshrug said:


> Before returning the boompro, I'd wait to hear from Mad how he has his "3rd party mic" connected to the PS4. The DSS doesn't have to be involved with the mic signal chain to get the mic working.


 
  
 x2
  
 There is nothing wrong with the boompro, just something is wrong with the way you have it connected/setup.  The DSS shouldn't be involved at all.


----------



## chicolom

guymelef said:


> I want Dolby Headphone for consoles.
> 
> My options:
> Ear Force DSS (first version) 65€
> ...


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> I'm using a mic plugged into the mixamp with my PS4. As I've mentioned before, it works just fine (that way) as long as you register the controller before the mixamp when it prompts "which user is using this device"
> 
> If he wants to use the boompro and get both chat and audio through it, using the DSS is out of the question (I would assume)... and the mixamp would be the ideal choice. If he gets a separate mic, however, then he can just plug that into the DS4 and the headphones to the DSS.


Seems like those are my two options. Thanks for the feedback folks.


----------



## chicolom

woesty420 said:


> k612s vs. HD598s.
> 
> _*If anyone has tested both of them, opinions would be greatly appreciated. *_
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if Katun is around this thread, but he has heard both.  You could try sending him a PM to ask him which one he prefers/recommends for gaming.
 http://www.head-fi.org/u/129046/katun


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I'm using a mic plugged into the mixamp with my PS4. As I've mentioned before, it works just fine (that way) as long as you register the controller before the mixamp when it prompts "which user is using this device"
> 
> If he wants to use the boompro and get both chat and audio through it, using the DSS is out of the question (I would assume)... and the mixamp would be the ideal choice. If he gets a separate mic, however, then he can just plug that into the DS4 and the headphones to the DSS.






daddydc650 said:


> Seems like those are my two options. Thanks for the feedback folks.



Or... If he has a DSS, BoomPro, and a y-split cable made for separating audio and mic channels, shouldn't he be able to plug the BoomPro into the Y-Split, Y-Split (perhaps with an extension cable) into the DualShock 4 mic input port?

3 options




chicolom said:


> x2
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the boompro, just something is wrong with the way you have it connected/setup.  The DSS shouldn't be involved at all.



Exactly, he should just have to route the mic audio path _around the DSS_ and straight to the controller's mic input.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Or... If he has a DSS, BoomPro, and a y-split cable made for separating audio and mic channels, shouldn't he be able to plug the BoomPro into the Y-Split, Y-Split (perhaps with an extension cable) into the DualShock 4 mic input port?
> 
> 3 options
> Exactly, he should just have to route the mic audio path _around the DSS_ and straight to the controller's mic input.




Ohhh,I see...

Boompro > female y-split with two male ends? One end going to the DSS and the other end going to the controller (with an extension)?

I'm such a slow turtle lol.

That should work....


----------



## DADDYDC650

I have the DSS connected to my PS4 via optical (Dolby/Bitsream) and the BoomPro is connected to my Philips X1. The BoomPro cable is connected to a female Y-split. From the y-split, one male end is connected to the DSS using an extension cable and the other to my Dual Shock 4. The audio works great but my PS4 reports that no mic is connected.


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> I have the DSS connected to my PS4 via optical (Dolby/Bitsream) and the BoomPro is connected to my Philips X1. The BoomPro cable is connected to a female Y-split. From the y-split, one male end is connected to the DSS using an extension cable and the other to my Dual Shock 4. The audio works great but my PS4 reports that no mic is connected.


 
  
 I'd wait on MLE and see what he says... as he is more familiar with getting the PS4 to separate the audio to go to the processor and chat functionality to go to the DS4.


----------



## motorwayne

evshrug said:


> The fact of the matter is that DH and it's 2D virtual surround peers are more universal. The console is still processing where sounds are directed, and external devices can only re-process this "home theater" designed 2D surround. More may be possible with a PC and designing an external soundcard, but it's still up to developers to integrate a 3D library of sounds into their game. Unless GenAudio is approachable by others and don't have an exclusivity contract with AMD, it would be impractical for FiiO to pursue a 3D surround setup.
> 
> That said, 2D surround is still a big competitive step up from 1D stereo, and the majority of the gamer market hasn't yet even experienced surround at this level with headphones. This fact and the more universal compatibility of 2D headphone surround is why I argue that, until the landscape changes (or FiiO grows and has the R&D to change it themselves), a 2D surround encoder is the practical direction FiiO should/could aim for today.


 
 Fair and goods points here...given the size of the console market, FiiO would be mad not to give an offering, you're right.


----------



## Evshrug

woesty420 said:


> k612s vs. HD598s.
> 
> _*If anyone has tested both of them, opinions would be greatly appreciated. *_
> 
> ...



Seems like your impressions of the K612 are made up of a bunch of different AKG headphone impressions. The K612 mids may be a bit more forward than average, but they still have the very common dip below line-level dB, and midbass rises above line-level and doesn't sharply drop off the dB as bass extends into the sub region – overall the K612 has the smooth shallow v-shape common in high-fi headphones. The older K*701, K702,* and *Q701* headphones had bumps in the headband that were pretty firm and caused some people discomfort (me too, in longer listening sessions), BUT the K612 has no bumps to it's headband, so it should shape to your head and feel more comfortable than most headphones.

From what I've read and my AKG experience, I'd recommend the K612 over the HD598. While they both have a decent Frequency Range balance, the K612 is more "fun" and energetic while the HD598 is more "laid-back," perhaps feeling oddly "removed" from the energy of Metal. The K612 wins in comfort unless you like more clamp, the HD598 headband is also more rigid and hard. Some people really love the Sennheiser experience, they do make great headphones, but I would recommend AKG.

I bet you're like me, you research things for a looong time before you settle on a choice, but once you make that choice you are very satisfied with it. I waited a few years to get my first AKG, and Let's not talk about how long I waited to get my first car that wasn't a hand me down... But take it from experience and do yourself a favor, wait a few weeks to make sure a desire isn't an impulse, but if you take too long and research turns into stalling tactics, you'll make your head spin. Eventually you have to be decisive, and you'll be glad you did


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> I'd wait on MLE and see what he says... as he is more familiar with getting the PS4 to separate the audio to go to the processor and chat functionality to go to the DS4.


I think the mic end of the y-split is defective. If I connect the BoomPro cable without the y-split into the Dual Shock controller, I can get audio and the mic works without issue. If I connect the BoomPro to the y-split and then the mic end into the controller, I get nothing. If I connect only the audio end of the y-split into the controller, I get audio but no mic.


----------



## Evshrug

motorwayne said:


> Fair and goods points here...given the size of the console market, FiiO would be mad not to give an offering, you're right.



Thanks motorwayne,
Maybe, once we get enough gamers into virtual surround, we can give them upgraditis 
Where there's a market demand, there's a way. It certainly wouldn't Hurt FiiO to get their foot in the door with TrueAudio in case it catches on and game devs make use of it, but right now 2D surround is the sure bet. Too bad the marketing efforts of other companies have confused consumers about what "3D" would actually sound like... but that's why I have my "If I Knew Then" thread with an article on virtual surround, I want to make it easy to educate people and encourage discussion. I would certainly never want to NOT mention 3D surround in the context of considering possibilities.


*DaddyDC,*
Seems like a reasonable deduction. The cable may be a dud, or the defect could be the mic and chat audio channels are located on the wrong places on the plug... Dunno for sure.


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> I think the mic end of the y-split is defective. If I connect the BoomPro cable without the y-split into the Dual Shock controller, I can get audio and the mic works without issue. If I connect the BoomPro to the y-split and then the mic end into the controller, I get nothing. If I connect only the audio end of the y-split into the controller, I get audio but no mic.


 
  
 I really doubt its the female y-split. The PS4 is just not reading the two separate connections. I think you may need a male y-split, also, but on the DS4 for it to work right...
  
 But then, you'll just have cables all over the place... killing the whole point of having a boompro... making it redundant, IMO. I'd get a mixamp and call it a day if you want to keep the boompro. Having a DSS with the boompro ruins the reason for buying it... simplicity


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> I really doubt its the female y-split. The PS4 is just not reading the two separate connections. I think you may need a male y-split on the DS4 for it to work right...
> 
> But then, you'll just have cables all over the place.


Why is it that the audio end of the y-split works without issue when I plug it into the controller but the mic end of the y-split does not work at all? That's only one connection and not two.


----------



## Change is Good

double post


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> Why is it that the audio end of the y-split works without issue when I plug it into the controller but the mic end of the y-split does not work at all? That's only one connection and not two.


 
  
 The DS4 controller has to separate chat and audio output... hence why you need a male y-split plugged into it.
  
 Here:
  
 Boompro > female y-split/male green end > DSS
  
 Boompro > female y-split/male red end > female red end/male y-split > DS4


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> The DS4 controller has to separate chat and audio output... hence why you need a male y-split plugged into it.
> 
> Here:
> 
> ...


That sounds like a mess. I just connected the stock PS4 mic into the controller. Now I have audio via my DSS + X1 and a working mic via stock PS4 mic. The BoomPro has been rendered useless since I already have 2 mics for my PC.


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> That sounds like a mess. I just connected the stock PS4 mic into the controller. Now I have audio via my DSS + X1 and a working mic via stock PS4 mic. The BoomPro has been rendered useless since I already have 2 mics for my PC.




I wouldn't necessarily say the boompro is rendered useless, you just don't have the right processor for its purpose. The DSS is just too complicating to use with it... because it kills the whole reason of having the boompro to begin with (hence why I suggested the mixamp, instead, if you went the boompro route).

They answered your question, correctly, saying the DSS would work with the boompro. Whether it's worth the hassle... well, I guess we can see that result lol


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Seems like your impressions of the K612 are made up of a bunch of different AKG headphone impressions. The K612 mids may be a bit more forward than average, but they still have the very common dip below line-level dB, and midbass rises above line-level and doesn't sharply drop off the dB as bass extends into the sub region – overall the K612 has the smooth shallow v-shape common in high-fi headphones. The older K*701, K702,* and *Q701* headphones had bumps in the headband that were pretty firm and caused some people discomfort (me too, in longer listening sessions), BUT the K612 has no bumps to it's headband, so it should shape to your head and feel more comfortable than most headphones.
> 
> From what I've read and my AKG experience, I'd recommend the K612 over the HD598. While they both have a decent Frequency Range balance, the K612 is more "fun" and energetic while the HD598 is more "laid-back," perhaps feeling oddly "removed" from the energy of Metal. The K612 wins in comfort unless you like more clamp, the HD598 headband is also more rigid and hard. Some people really love the Sennheiser experience, they do make great headphones, but I would recommend AKG.
> 
> I bet you're like me, you research things for a looong time before you settle on a choice, but once you make that choice you are very satisfied with it. I waited a few years to get my first AKG, and Let's not talk about how long I waited to get my first car that wasn't a hand me down... But take it from experience and do yourself a favor, wait a few weeks to make sure a desire isn't an impulse, but if you take too long and research turns into stalling tactics, you'll make your head spin. Eventually you have to be decisive, and you'll be glad you did




Yes, the K612 is a great headphone for the price if you have an amp to drive it


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> I wouldn't necessarily say the boompro is rendered useless, you just don't have the right processor for its purpose. The DSS is just too complicating to use with it... because it kills the whole reason of having the boompro to begin with (hence why I suggested the mixamp, instead, if you went the boompro route).
> 
> They answered your question, correctly, saying the DSS would work with the boompro. Whether it's worth the hassle... well, I guess we can see that result lol


I'm trying to go the simple route. A mixamp goes for about $130. I'd rather settle for a good headset for a fraction of the cost in that case. Sure the headset won't sound as good but it will sound good enough, get the job done easily and I'll have a lot more money on my pocket. Thanks for the input guys. Really appreciate it.


----------



## Change is Good

Not a good idea, because if you do, it would have a turtle beach... because only those headsets are compatible with the DSS's chat functionality.


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> Not a good idea, because if you do, it would have a turtle beach... because only those headsets are compatible with the DSS's chat functionality.


If I were to purchase a mixamp, would the BoomPro work with my X1 without adding additional cables or connections?


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> If I were to purchase a mixamp, would the BoomPro work with my X1 without adding additional cables or connections?




Yes


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> Yes


 
 So, 250 + tax for the X1, $30 + tax for the BoomPro and last of all, a mixamp for $130 + tax.  That's about $446 for some better clarity and sound stage. Not sure if it's worth it. X1's sound great but they aren't blowing me away for the money. I might have to go back to the drawing board.
  
 Sorry if I sound bitter. I know these toys aren't cheap. I guess I didn't do enough research and I was hoping to own noobs tonight without any issues.


----------



## Evshrug

^that's why we first recommend for consoles getting a separate mic and headphone. The BoomPro is more for smartphones, tablets, and PC. 

X1 ($250) + lapel mic ($3.50, [plus a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter for Xbox360, $2 or so]) + Turtle Beach DSS (~$25/$30 on eBay) = about $280 plus tax for a great PS4 setup. If the PS4's included mic is fine, maybe the best solution for you is to just return the BoomPro and use a normal audio cable with the X1.


----------



## Change is Good

Yes, but I think he's trying to avoid all the extra wires... hence why I said avoid the DSS period. He can't have the best of both worlds and not expect to pay for it... plain and simple.

If he couphed up the extra change it wouldnt be by much more. He can easily find a used mixamp for 60-75 bucks. Then, he'd have exactly what his heart really desires.


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> Yes, but I think he's trying to avoid all the extra wires... hence why I said avoid the DSS period. He can't have the best of both worlds and not expect to pay for it... plain and simple.
> 
> If he couphed up the extra change it wouldnt be by much more. He can easily find a used mixamp for 60-75 bucks. Then, he'd have exactly what his heart really desires.


 
 Yes, I'm trying to avoid having a bunch of wires. I'm thinking of purchasing a mixamp or maybe using my USB Logitech desktop mic with my PS4. Would that be possible?
  
 BTW, would my X1 + BoomPro + Mixamp work with my PS4 + Xbox One? I don't want extra cables and connections. I'm thinking I'll need 2 extension cables. One for audio and one for the mic?


----------



## souske sagara

I have been using the astro a40 and a30 for the past 2 yrs with the wireless mixamp. I just purchased the Sony MDR-MA900 and I was wondering should I get the newer mixamp pro or should I just stick with the wireless mixamp. Also I game on PS3 and PS4. Also watch a ton of Netflix and anime Blu-rays.


----------



## Guymelef

chicolom said:


>


 
 Thanks  
 Ear Froce DSS ordered.


----------



## driftaholic

Between the shure 1840's and the AKG K791 Anny's which had the most ear room?


----------



## conquerator2

driftaholic said:


> Between the shure 1840's and the AKG K791 Anny's which had the most ear room?


 
 Probably the AKGs.


----------



## driftaholic

Thanks for that!
  
 I also want to share my appreciation for this thread in general it opened my eyes to hi end headphones and getting great positional audio in games.
  
 So far I've owned:
 Some crappy turtle beaches
 AKG Q701
 DT-990 Pro 250
 Sony MA900
 AKG K712Pro
  
 I've settled on the 712 Pro it has surprisingly better rear positioning to me then the sony and much smoother bass. I heard a bit of distortion in the sony's.
  
 My dumbo ears touch the divers on all of these cans. It doesn't seem like I'll get any long term comfort without stepping up to a 2x the price set of headphones


----------



## conquerator2

driftaholic said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> I also want to share my appreciation for this thread in general it opened my eyes to hi end headphones and getting great positional audio in games.
> 
> ...


 
 I wanna chime in too.
 AKG K612 Pro [not in the guide, but for the price is my #1, if you have the amp for it]
 Sony MDR-MA900
 Philips Fidelio X1
 Audio Technica ATH-W1000X [likes amping too, though for the price, not recommended]
 [see sig..]
  
 I have big ears too!
 My ears touch the Sony MA900 [not terribad though], K612s [surprisingly comfortable although they touch my ears], and W1000X [stock pads]
 The Fidelio X1 and W1000X [HiFiMAN pleather pads] don't touch my ears.
 The X1 might be worth a shot, really. Mighty comfy!


----------



## Woesty420

evshrug said:


> Seems like your impressions of the K612 are made up of a bunch of different AKG headphone impressions. The K612 mids may be a bit more forward than average, but they still have the very common dip below line-level dB, and midbass rises above line-level and doesn't sharply drop off the dB as bass extends into the sub region – overall the K612 has the smooth shallow v-shape common in high-fi headphones. The older K*701, K702,* and *Q701* headphones had bumps in the headband that were pretty firm and caused some people discomfort (me too, in longer listening sessions), BUT the K612 has no bumps to it's headband, so it should shape to your head and feel more comfortable than most headphones.
> 
> From what I've read and my AKG experience, I'd recommend the K612 over the HD598. While they both have a decent Frequency Range balance, the K612 is more "fun" and energetic while the HD598 is more "laid-back," perhaps feeling oddly "removed" from the energy of Metal. The K612 wins in comfort unless you like more clamp, the HD598 headband is also more rigid and hard. Some people really love the Sennheiser experience, they do make great headphones, but I would recommend AKG.
> 
> I bet you're like me, you research things for a looong time before you settle on a choice, but once you make that choice you are very satisfied with it. I waited a few years to get my first AKG, and Let's not talk about how long I waited to get my first car that wasn't a hand me down... But take it from experience and do yourself a favor, wait a few weeks to make sure a desire isn't an impulse, but if you take too long and research turns into stalling tactics, you'll make your head spin. Eventually you have to be decisive, and you'll be glad you did




Sounds exactly like me! Get too many different thoughts/opinions in my head and it makes the decision extremely hard! 

DJ found me a place where I can get the k612s shipped for $224 or so. Can't really beat that price. The HD598s I found used for $180-220 used.

*Any negative to not being having a removable cable?* I know with the more costly headphones people like to change them out for better quality cables which I don't see me doing. *But is there ever any worry of cables failing*? 

*Lastly what would be a recommended amp/DAC combo to add to my SB Z to make the 612 sound best?* won't be right away so I will have to deal with SB z for a while.


----------



## conquerator2

woesty420 said:


> Sounds exactly like me! Get too many different thoughts/opinions in my head and it makes the decision extremely hard!
> 
> DJ found me a place where I can get the k612s shipped for $224 or so. Can't really beat that price. The HD598s I found used for $180-220 used.
> 
> ...


 
 No, the K612 cable feels pretty solid. Only pretty much what you said - can't replace it, though I believe you can send them for recabling somewhere, should you want.
 Audio GD DAC/amps are pretty good, Matrix M-Stage with the DAC module is pretty good too [my current setup for the K612s]
 Or EHP-O2/Xonar DX, being the cheapest good setup.


----------



## davisman

change is good said:


> Man, I didn't know. Glad to hear everything was successful.
> 
> @Joe Bloggs, can FiiO *please* manufacture a device (with a Dolby Headphone processor and chat capability) that will blow the other competition away?!? I know you can do it! I mean, you are FiiO!!! Everyone who agrees quote me with a +1 That should grab they're attention


 
 +1
  
 Edit: Im late to the party, also posted in the thread. Thanks a lot Chico for making it. Who knows, maybe 2015 will be the year FiiO breaks into the gaming market.


----------



## Naingolann

For the guys having trouble using the mic with their DSS. Remember that you can always try THIS.


----------



## Woesty420

conquerator2 said:


> No, the K612 cable feels pretty solid. Only pretty much what you said - can't replace it, though I believe you can send them for recabling somewhere, should you want.
> Audio GD DAC/amps are pretty good, Matrix M-Stage with the DAC module is pretty good too [my current setup for the K612s]
> Or EHP-O2/Xonar DX, being the cheapest good setup.


 
  
 Ok I think I will get the k612s then. 

 Audio GD NFB 15.32 is what I was looking at getting which is out of stock right now. But I won't be getting an amp for a little while anyways so they should be back in stock by than. Shipping and border costs is another PITA! Not looking to spend over $250-300
  
 Haven't checked out the Matrix yet so I will do that. 02 looks pretty good too, so many decisions. As for the Xonar, I'm going to be rocking the SB Z because from what I've reviewed their surround is much better which is why I chose it. Hopefully it's good enough to get my through till I pick up an amp though...


----------



## conquerator2

woesty420 said:


> Ok I think I will get the k612s then.
> 
> 
> Audio GD NFB 15.32 is what I was looking at getting which is out of stock right now. But I won't be getting an amp for a little while anyways so they should be back in stock by than. Shipping and border costs is another PITA! Not looking to spend over $250-300
> ...




I think it should.
If going for an amp only, you can get the older Mstage.
If going for an amp/DAC get the new one with the usb module.
Audio gd compares well too so it's really just a matter of what you want.
The SB should keep you occupied meanwhile.
The 612 does rather well off weaker sources too.


----------



## DADDYDC650

naingolann said:


> For the guys having trouble using the mic with their DSS. Remember that you can always try THIS.


 
 Does that actually work with the PS4 though? I don't want to waste time and money into another connection that doesn't work properly.
  
 BTW, this page is 1337! I also ordered a replacement y-split cable for my BoomPro. I want to test out another cable before I order the mixamp.


----------



## Woesty420

conquerator2 said:


> I think it should.
> If going for an amp only, you can get the older Mstage.
> If going for an amp/DAC get the new one with the usb module.
> Audio gd compares well too so it's really just a matter of what you want.
> ...


 
 As long as the SB Z will power it moderately for now I will definitely get the k612s, I just don't want them to sound bad right when I get them.
  
 As for amp vs. amp/DAC I'm still trying to decide which route to go. I want something that can connect optically into SB Z or just an amp to connect via headphone plug in. Just depends on peoples opinions on the DAC in the Z and if getting an external will make a huge difference or not.


----------



## Naingolann

daddydc650 said:


> Does that actually work with the PS4 though? I don't want to waste time and money into another connection that doesn't work properly.
> 
> BTW, this page is 1337! I also ordered a replacement y-split cable for my BoomPro. I want to test out another cable before I order the mixamp.


 
 I don't see why it shouldn't work, even on the PS4. And it's cheaper than buying a new Mixamp.


----------



## DADDYDC650

naingolann said:


> I don't see why it shouldn't work, even on the PS4. And it's cheaper than buying a new Mixamp.


 
 I went ahead and ordered it from newegg for 9 bucks with free 2 day shipping. Thanks for the heads up. Hope it works. If not, I can always send it back for a refund.
  
 So, I just played a couple of rounds of COD: Ghost on the PS4. Wow! Great clarity, explosions hit very well with no distortion and the sound stage is amazing! I just went 25-5 in TDM. I'm pretty sure that's the best score I've gotten by far. I feel bad for the folks that aren't playing with a setup similar to mine. They had no chance! If the X1's had the same weight of the Sony MA-900's, a little more height adjustment for those bigger heads out there and the ear pads were replaceable, the X1 would be the best headphones ever made for gaming. Another great addition would be a tuck away mic like the Polk Audio 4shot headset. Someone tell the folks in charge @ Philips to get on it! They would make a killing!


----------



## davisman

I wanted to share something I have been trying out over the past few weeks. As many of you know, there is a 'bass port' mod for the akg k7 series of headphones. Well, I modded my AKG k702 annies, and I am really loving it. The extra bass is a lot of fun. I'm sure I gave up something, but I only use these for console gaming atm. Which, is overkill because I am only able to use a stereo signal until my HDMI splitter gets here. 
  
 Also, I wanted to share how I overcame the chat functionality on Xbox One, and will have virtual surround again. As many of you know, the Mixamp has an Aux input. So I am currently calling my friends through skype on my computer, and sending the audio signal from the RCA output of my sound card to the Aux Input of the mixamp, and on down the chain. This works rather well, as you can adjust the volume digitally on your computer. 
  
 The reason I do this instead of just using the kinect mic is simple. When you are in chat on the Xbox one, it lowers your game volume to an almost inaudible level, this is the same for party chat or skype chat on xbox one. I have found no way to adjust the volume settings on the xbox.  
  
 Soon as it arrives I will be using a HDMI splitter to separates the digital audio signal from the Xbox one's Hdmi cable. This will allow me to get full surround sound again. I know many of you already know this, but I thought I would share it again.


----------



## Guymelef

Hello, i just receive the MA900, sound is sooo good, but maybe i'd like a little more bass, i'm waiting for the Turtle Beach DSS (1) do you think the "Bass boost" from DSS will solve my "problem" with any audio input (analog and digital)???


----------



## DADDYDC650

guymelef said:


> Hello, i just receive the MA900, sound is sooo good, but maybe i'd like a little more bass, i'm waiting for the Turtle Beach DSS (1) do you think the "Bass boost" from DSS will solve my "problem" with any audio input (analog and digital)???


 
 I think it will. Don't expect Beats bass or anything but you will notice a bump in bass performance.


----------



## Naingolann

Keep the bass boost in the mid-low setting. On the highest setting it'd distort the sound a bit for me.


----------



## davisman

Does anybody remember who it was that mods headphones and adds microphones to them? I think it was Tommy Boy or something like that. Anybody know if he is still taking on work?
  
 ETA: I found his google+ page where he posts.


----------



## ATLien3000

I absolutely can not decide what headphone to get! This will be my first ever good pair of headphones and I'm lost. I've done research for a couple weeks now and I still have no idea haha. I am looking to spend around $200 or less. I will be using them for PS4 gaming, some PC gaming and of course music. Does anyone have a suggestion for a new headphone user?


----------



## DADDYDC650

atlien3000 said:


> I absolutely can not decide what headphone to get! This will be my first ever good pair of headphones and I'm lost. I've done research for a couple weeks now and I still have no idea haha. I am looking to spend around $200 or less. I will be using them for PS4 gaming, some PC gaming and of course music. Does anyone have a suggestion for a new headphone user?


 
 Have you gone over the first page of this thread? MLE gives out a great summary and some of the best headphones for gaming. I recommend the Sony MA900 for $200 or the Philips X1 for $249 on Amazon if you want a little more bass.


----------



## kman1211

atlien3000 said:


> I absolutely can not decide what headphone to get! This will be my first ever good pair of headphones and I'm lost. I've done research for a couple weeks now and I still have no idea haha. I am looking to spend around $200 or less. I will be using them for PS4 gaming, some PC gaming and of course music. Does anyone have a suggestion for a new headphone user?


 
  
 Since this is your first headphone, I would probably look into something easy to drive and doesn't require amplification if you don't have amplifier. If an open headphone is fine, I would suggest the Sony MDR-MA900 or Sennheiser HD 558/598 in this price range. The Philips Fidelio X1 is another, but it may be a bit out of your price range at $250.


----------



## DADDYDC650

So, can anyone tell me if the mixamp being sold @ Microsofts site is exactly the same as the Astro Mixamp that sells for $129.99 by itself @ Amazon? Here is the link, http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> So, can anyone tell me if the mixamp being sold @ Microsofts site is exactly the same as the Astro Mixamp that sells for $129.99 by itself @ Amazon? Here is the link, http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900


 
  
 What?! 
  
 Now it's only $79??  It was $109 a week ago, and that was a good deal then.  Remember, you're getting a free A30 headset.
  
  
 Mixamp 5.8 + A30s for $109:
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wireless-System/productID.253782000
  
 Mixamp (2011) + A30s for $79:
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wired-Audio-System/productID.253781900
  
 Some of the best prices I've seen on them ^.
  
  
 If you're looking at this amazon listing, then NO it's not the same.  The Amazon listing is the newer edition with the EQ and what-not.  The newer version also has more hiss though.


----------



## DADDYDC650

chicolom said:


> What?!
> 
> Now it's only $79??  It was $109 a week ago, and that was a good deal then.  Remember, you're getting a free A30 headset.
> 
> ...


I bought the $79.99 version. Is the 2013 version better? Should I cancel my order? I don't want an inferior version to pair with my Philips X1 and BoomPro mic....


----------



## ATLien3000

Are the Astro a40s and mixamp good for $190 or should I buy a better headphone for the price? I don't need a mic.


----------



## chicolom

Quote:


daddydc650 said:


> I bought the $79.99 version. Is the 2013 version better? Should I cancel my order? I don't want an inferior version to pair with my Philips X1 and BoomPro mic....


 
  
 In terms of sound quality, FWIR the 2011 version is actually the best.  I'd stick with it, as that's a great price on it (they go for that much _used_, and _without _the A30 headset.)
  
  


atlien3000 said:


> Are the Astro a40s and mixamp good for $190 or should I buy a better headphone for the price? I don't need a mic.


 
  
 If you don't need a mic, don't get the mixamp - get the DSS (version one, not DSS2).  It sells for ~$25 on ebay and has the same surround as the mixamp, just without the mic support.
  
 Don't get the A40s regardless.  They're overpriced.  Get one of the other headphone recommendations on the front page.


----------



## DADDYDC650

chicolom said:


> In terms of sound quality, FWIR the 2011 version is actually the best.  I'd stick with it, as that's a great price on it (they go for that much used, and _without_ the A30 headset.)


Awesome! I might try to sell the headset to offset the price. It's almost as if Microsoft read my posts last night and wanted to help me out....


----------



## Woesty420

Amp vs. amp/DAC I'm still trying to decide which route to go for k612s.

I want a DAC/amp that can connect optically into SB Z or just an amp to connect via headphone plug in worth $100-250. Just depends on peoples opinions on the DAC in the Z and if getting an external will make a huge difference or not.


----------



## SaLX

Woesty.. make a decision - we've lobbed plenty of ideas at you here and in the other mega threads. Look back over them and you'll come to a decision mate  No doubt about it though, choosing any other bit of tech is a walk in the park compared to audio.
  
 As I indicated.. get the SBZ and the K612 and see how you get on... you can then add a DAC or an amp later if you so choose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> What?!
> 
> Now it's only $79??  It was $109 a week ago, and that was a good deal then.  Remember, you're getting a free A30 headset.
> 
> ...




Well, crap. I really wanna buy this...

And maaaan, I bought the 5.8 for over that not that long ago. Ugh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> Awesome! I might try to sell the headset to offset the price. It's almost as if Microsoft read my posts last night and wanted to help me out....




Sell it to me...


I could use a headset, and it'd give me another thing to review down the line.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Sell it to me...
> 
> 
> I could use a headset, and it'd give me another thing to review down the line.


What would you be willing to pay?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, you got it for hilariously cheap, so I expect something that makes sense.

Anybody want a 2011 Mixamp for $45 total?

I'm stuck in that i have the 5.8, and no headset. I don't exactly have much money so selling off the 2011 could help off pay for the A30 and some of what I owe Change for the 1840 pads.


----------



## kman1211

It seems the MA900 may of been discontinued. Amazon is saying it's discontinued by manufacturer and they say out of stock on Sony's website.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, you got it for hilariously cheap, so I expect something that makes sense.
> 
> Anybody want a 2011 Mixamp for $45 total?
> 
> I'm stuck in that i have the 5.8, and no headset. I don't exactly have much money so selling off the 2011 could help off pay for the A30 and some of what I owe Change for the 1840 pads.


Why are you keeping the 5.8 over the 2011 mixamp?


----------



## DrunkenTiger

kman1211 said:


> It seems the MA900 may of been discontinued. Amazon is saying it's discontinued by manufacturer and they say out of stock on Sony's website.


 
 So is a newer model coming along, given it's almost been 2 years since it's been out?


----------



## kman1211

drunkentiger said:


> So is a newer model coming along, given it's almost been 2 years since it's been out?


 

 Well probably sometime in the not so distant future, but who knows. Sony is bad about discontinuing their best models.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> Why are you keeping the 5.8 over the 2011 mixamp?




Less cable clutter. I like the wireless freedom. I kind of wanna buy the Fiio W1 to be untethered between my sources and whatever amp I may use next to me (E17 for now).

Lately, I haven't even been using my E17. I've been using the Mixamp 5.8 when using my laptop, since I hook my laptop to my TV and I sit on the bed.


Seriously, if there was a high end wireless headphone that wasn't hissy or had interference issues, I'd have bought it by now. The Senn RS220 looks nice, but I hear it has too many issues.

At least the W1 will essentially be like a cleaner sounding 5.8 without DH and chat. I could always use my regular Mixamp and send the signal to the W1's transmitter via 3.5mm.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Less cable clutter. I like the wireless freedom. I kind of wanna buy the Fiio W1 to be untethered between my sources and whatever amp I may use next to me (E17 for now).
> 
> Lately, I haven't even been using my E17. I've been using the Mixamp 5.8 when using my laptop, since I hook my laptop to my TV and I sit on the bed.
> 
> ...


I see. I'm wondering if I should have bought the wireless mixamp + a30 over the 2011 mixamp with the a30 headset. I'm guessing the 2011 mixamp has less hiss than the 5.8 wireless as well as more connections. Would I be able to connect both my Xbox One and PS4 to the 2011 mixamp at the same time?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wireless Mixamp is as hissy as the 2013 Mixamp, so if you value hiss control, the 2011 is the best one to get. The hiss isn't much of an issue to me for gaming anyways. hell, the AX720's decoder is considerably more hissy than either, and I was fine with that too.

The 2011 Mixamp has the most inputs, as you can simply buy an optical to digital coaxial converter, and run two systems digitally, as WELL as an RCA one, so 3 systems at once, RCA not allowing Dolby Digital however. I prefer this method over optical splitters/switchers which have all failed on me.

The 5.8 only has one digital connection. I believe the 2013 only has one digital connection as well.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The wireless Mixamp is as hissy as the 2013 Mixamp, so if you value hiss control, the 2011 is the best one to get. The hiss isn't much of an issue to me for gaming anyways. hell, the AX720's decoder is considerably more hissy than either, and I was fine with that too.
> 
> The 2011 Mixamp has the most inputs, as you can simply buy an optical to digital coaxial converter, and run two systems digitally, as WELL as an RCA one, so 3 systems at once, RCA not allowing Dolby Digital however. I prefer this method over optical splitters/switchers which have all failed on me.
> 
> The 5.8 only has one digital connection. I believe the 2013 only has one digital connection as well.


Can you please recommend me a nice optical to digital coaxial converter on Amazon that will alow me to connect both the PS4 + Xbone to my 2011 mixamp?


----------



## 1llest

chicolom said:


> What?!
> 
> Now it's only $79??  It was $109 a week ago, and that was a good deal then.  Remember, you're getting a free A30 headset.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow that is really cheap. I might get this for my GF. thanks for the link.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> Can you please recommend me a nice optical to digital coaxial converter on Amazon that will alow me to connect both the PS4 + Xbone to my 2011 mixamp?




http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Optical-Toslink-Coaxial-Converter/dp/B000I98ZQY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389765615&sr=1-1&keywords=optical+to+digital+coax

Works like a dream, and I can't tell a diff between the optical and digital coaxial input even with this device. I got mine on Monoprice directly, but it's the same one.

Keep in mind that if BOTH systems are on, the one connected to the optical input gets priority, so you'll have to turn it off to get the digital coax's audio. Same with RCA.

1. optical
2. digital coax
3. RCA

That's the priority on the Mixamp.


----------



## DADDYDC650

MLE, why did you sell your Philips X1 headphones again?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only owned them at one point in time. Sold it ages ago.


----------



## Fegefeuer

overpowering one-notyness of the bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, that's one of it's downsides, but that wasn't my issue. My issue was that I'm particularly sensitive to the specific region of bass that the X1 (and many other headphones) boost. It gives me a headache. Hell, even the Q701 fatigues me,
even with it's less than bassy sound.

It's not an X1 problem. Its an MLE problem.


----------



## a_recording

Thought you might be interested Mad Lust, I just got a review loaner of the AT AG-1!
  

  
 Absolutely gorgeous looking can. Will try to get a video up of this in the coming weeks, but first impressions as far as sound goes is that this thing sounds like how I remember the A900X sounds. Apparently the 3D wing mechanism on this version has been tightened up a little as well...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> I mean, that's one of it's downsides, but that wasn't my issue. My issue was that I'm particularly sensitive to the specific region of bass that the X1 (and many other headphones) boost. It gives me a headache. Hell, even the Q701 fatigues me,
> even with it's less than bassy sound.
> 
> It's not an X1 problem. Its an MLE problem.


That's too bad.

I wash my face every morning and night. Once I'm done I apply creams and or oil's to moisturize my face. My question is, won't the X1 pads go to hell quickly in my case? Should I be worried?


----------



## Chubtoad

Does anyone here have any experience with the JDS Labs Cmoybb V2.03?
  
 link - http://www.jdslabs.com/products/1/cmoybb-v2-03-headphone-amplifier/
  
  
 I was thinking about getting one of these for the X1's. I was talking with a customer service rep and they customize the amp for your specific headphones. So the gain/bass boost/whatever will be tailored for the X1's specs. The guy I talked with had personal experience with the X1 so he knew about them. From what he was saying, they base there customization's off of user feedback, but I also assume it would be off their own usage/testing as well. They apparently had their booth set up next to the Philips booth at Canjam in October.
  
 There is also a rechargeable battery version as well if you wanted it to be more portable.


----------



## ATLien3000

I mentioned earlier i don't have experience with a good pair of headphones. As a first time user would I be able to notice a large difference between CALs and the other headphones in the 150-300 range?


----------



## martin vegas

Just as China finally lifts its ban on foreign video game consoles, one of its biggest electronics OEMs has announced a new Ouya competitor. It’s called Tron, and Huawei hopes to sell it for less than $120. The console itself is about the size of a soda can, and its minimalist exterior hides some pretty impressive ARM internals. Huawei opted to one-up Ouya by dropping in an Nvidia Tegra 4 processor and 2GB of RAM. They may offer two different models, one with 16GB of storage and another with 32GB. On the back of the “can” you’ll find an Ethernet and USB 3.0 port as well as HDMI and headphone outputs. Tron’s storage is expandable, too. There’s a door on the bottom that conceals a micro SD slot. The Tron controller is a lot like the Ouya’s — the main difference being that the trackpad in the center is larger. It connects to the console via Bluetooth and can be recharged by hooking up a cable to the micro USB port. Like Ouya, Huawei has heavily customized Android for their console. The simplified dashboard offers up access to games, videos, apps — and, of course, Huawei’s store. Google Play access doesn’t appear to be part of the plan, but that might not matter a whole lot. There’s a good chance that the Huawei Tron might never be sold outside of China. Disappointing? Perhaps a little. Those who got to spend hands-on time with the console at CES found it zippy enough. Then again, it sounds as though Huawei failed to mitigate the annoying Bluetooth controller lag that plagues Android consoles. What’s more disappointing is that Huawei went with the name Tron and didn’t even bother to deck this thing out with some blue neon and angular geometric patterns.


----------



## martin vegas

The only way you can get a headset or dac/headphone amp to get sound from a OUYA if your monitor has no speakers is by getting a HDMI to VGA converter with R/L Audio Converter!


----------



## Fegefeuer

daddydc650 said:


> That's too bad.
> 
> I wash my face every morning and night. Once I'm done I apply creams and or oil's to moisturize my face. My question is, won't the X1 pads go to hell quickly in my case? Should I be worried?


 
  
 Naturally a stripe down from your sideburns (if we go straight down in a line) isn't sensitive for whatever thing you might have. acne etc...so you could spare that part out and not worry about letting your X1 pads soak everything up, because otherwise they will. Not sure what you are using though so something that makes you a shiny face might look odd there. 
  
 Why do you use a lot stuff on your face anyway?


----------



## DADDYDC650

fegefeuer said:


> Naturally a stripe down from your sideburns (if we go straight down in a line) isn't sensitive for whatever thing you might have. acne etc...so you could spare that part out and not worry about letting your X1 pads soak everything up, because otherwise they will. Not sure what you are using though so something that makes you a shiny face might look odd there.
> 
> Why do you use a lot stuff on your face anyway?


I don't use a lot of stuff on my face. I simply wash my face and then apply moisturizer and at night I wash it again and apply moisturizing oil. My skin is great because I do this every day. I don't walk around all day with a shiny face if that's what you are thinking, lol.


----------



## SaLX

Daddy.. hate to ask this, but are you a man or a woman? Only asking for a bit of context (my GF get's me to put on cream n stuff occasionally, but I'm 170% man etc, honest guv).
  
 Anyways.. think that sock mod might well do it for you (the one in the Fidelio mega thread)


----------



## DADDYDC650

salx said:


> Daddy.. hate to ask this, but are you a man or a woman? Only asking for a bit of context (my GF get's me to put on cream n stuff occasionally, but I'm 170% man etc, honest guv).
> 
> Anyways.. think that sock mod might well do it for you (the one in the Fidelio mega thread)


I'm a man. My lady is the one crazy about beauty so she got my in the habit. I'm thinking that maybe I can apply cream in the morning on face except the part around my ear. At night, I guess I can wait until right before bed to wash my face. I usually do it at night when I'm up and alert and not right before bed. I hate that feeling of being super sleepy and having to do something like wash my face when all I want to do is sleep.


----------



## SaLX

A well moisturised man generally tends to be a PS4 player (according to scientists).
  

Guys with flaky skin, paunches and a " tbh pal ... I couldn't give a flying ****" veer towards the Xbox.
  
 How's that for social commentary?


----------



## DADDYDC650

salx said:


> A well moisturised man generally tends to be a PS4 player (according to scientists).
> 
> 
> Guys with flaky skin, paunches and a " tbh pal ... I couldn't give a flying ****" veer towards the Xbox.
> ...


 
 I own both. Interesting.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I don't want to get rid of these bad boys. If I decide to keep them, I'll have to take real good care of the pads and maybe Philips will release a new revision so I can sell these and buy those. Hopefully they are smart enough to not mess with the sound. Make the pads replaceable and I guess they can strengthen the cable socket while they are at it. I haven't had issues myself but I hear that it can break easily?


----------



## ATLien3000

Ok guys sorry for all the questions. I'm very new to the headphone game and want to make sure i spend my money wisely. I'm looking for a "fun" headphone that I can use for PS4 and PC gaming, and music. I'm not too worried about being great competitively but obviously that's a plus. I'm looking to spend around $150-200 or a tad more.


----------



## DADDYDC650

atlien3000 said:


> Ok guys sorry for all the questions. I'm very new to the headphone game and want to make sure i spend my money wisely. I'm looking for a "fun" headphone that I can use for PS4 and PC gaming, and music. I'm not too worried about being great competitively but obviously that's a plus. I'm looking to spend around $150-200 or a tad more.


 
 Philips X1. Can't get any more fun for your price range.


----------



## saphire121

Hey there! I'm looking for some decent headphones and I came across these: Audio Technica ATH-T400 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004RO3V7O/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&colid=2SOV6UVIMPR7L&coliid=I3H1SFLKQHTLCW&me=&seller=, if anybody has them or wants to reccomend them I'd be happy to hear. Looking to use it for gaming and music.


----------



## 1llest

atlien3000 said:


> Ok guys sorry for all the questions. I'm very new to the headphone game and want to make sure i spend my money wisely. I'm looking for a "fun" headphone that I can use for PS4 and PC gaming, and music. I'm not too worried about being great competitively but obviously that's a plus. I'm looking to spend around $150-200 or a tad more.




So im assuming you already have a DSS or a mixamp? Stretch your budget a bit and add $50. You can get the Fidelio X1 for $250 from amazon. They will go back to $300 next month.


----------



## ATLien3000

Forgot to mention I have to get them from newegg ($100 gift card there) and the fidelios aren't on there unfortunately. I can stretch my budget to $300 though.


----------



## Nokami

Im looking for an Closed / Semi-Open Headphone for Gaming (mostly CoD) for my Friend. He does have an really loud PC so open Headphones are a no-go, atm he as has an PC350 and the closed design is just okay with the noise outside.
  
 I did some research and found this:
  
AKG K 240 MK II (130€) [size=12.222222328186035px]A700X (~200€?)[/size]
  
 [size=12.222222328186035px]Can anyone give another Option or just say if these are good for a bit competetive Gaming? Thanks[/size]
 [size=12.222222328186035px]He does have an Xonar DG[/size]


----------



## xela3

Audio Technica is making gaming headphones so those should be interesting


----------



## theiron

1llest said:


> So im assuming you already have a DSS or a mixamp? Stretch your budget a bit and add $50. You can get the Fidelio X1 for $250 from amazon. They will go back to $300 next month.


 
 I can vouch. Fidelio X1 headphones are awesome. I was using Sen HD598 and switched to the X1.


----------



## a_recording

nokami said:


> Im looking for an Closed / Semi-Open Headphone for Gaming (mostly CoD) for my Friend. He does have an really loud PC so open Headphones are a no-go, atm he as has an PC350 and the closed design is just okay with the noise outside.
> 
> I did some research and found this:
> 
> ...


 
  
 Audio Technica AG-1? That's the gaming headset version of the A700X / A900X...
  
 Sorry to sound like I'm shilling since I just got a review loaner, but just though I should point it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

a_recording said:


> Thought you might be interested Mad Lust, I just got a review loaner of the AT AG-1!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah, cool. Not a fan of the A900, but let me know how it fares.

Hope you get the ADG1 at some point, as that's be the one I'd be most interested in as a gaming headset with the AD700 sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, just put up my Mixamp 2011 up for $45 total/shipped. Check my sig.

Have no need for it since I have the 5.8.


----------



## jumper

I might be a little late to the party but is it confirmed that the MA900 is now discontinued?  It's labeled as such on Amazon.  If that's correct is there a replacement?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Hey MLE, how noticeable is the hissing when using your wireless 5.8 mixamp? BTW, great deal on that 2011 Mixamp.


----------



## Droccord

I was looking to upgrade my Astro A40 headsets to some audio-technica ad900x. I know that the ad700 are widely recommended by a ton of gamers but I haven't seen many people recommend the ad900x version. I have hear both side saying they are good and some say they are not good or that the ad700x are better to stick with. Will buying the ad900x be worth upgrading to or do the ad700x perform better?  I did see Mad Lust Envy say that he wasn't a fan of the a900 but is that just the close can version? If anyone could give me any opinions or help I would appreciate I ate ited


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's been mentioned many times that the AD900 performs worse than the AD700 for gaming.


----------



## Droccord

OK I started looking back further and seen you said to stick to the 700.  Thanks for the help,  very much appreciate it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want an upgrade from the AD700, the K702/Q701 will give you that. It won't be a subtle difference like going from the 700 to 900. The Q701/702 is everything the AD700 wishes it were.


----------



## chicolom

Both the AD700 and AD900 (haven't heard "X" versions) are too lean to excel at immersive fun gaming.  Which leaves their strengths at competitive soundwhoring.  The AD700 does a slightly better job at that though, because the soundstage is a tad more focused and with a little more separation.  So the AD900 is kind of in an akward place.  Don't get me wrong, the AD900 is still _very_ good for competitive, it's just not as good as the AD700 which is crazy good.
  
 Rather than get either the AD700 or AD900 I would jump up to something like Q701, which is much more full and immersive while still being great for competitive gaming.


----------



## ATLien3000

Hey guys. I said earlier I am looking to get new headphones and it has to be from newegg since I have a gift card there. I've narrowed it down to the astro a40s and mixamp for $180, CAL for $75, HD598s for $180 or the HD558s for $120. I'm trying to stay under $200 and a lot of the options recommended are way above that or not available on newegg. Which of these would give me the most fun, immersive gaming?


----------



## benbenkr

atlien3000 said:


> Hey guys. I said earlier I am looking to get new headphones and it has to be from newegg since I have a gift card there. I've narrowed it down to the astro a40s and mixamp for $180, CAL for $75, HD598s for $180 or the HD558s for $120. I'm trying to stay under $200 and a lot of the options recommended are way above that or not available on newegg. Which of these would give me the most fun, immersive gaming?


 
  
 CAL > HD558 > HD598
  
 This is interms of immersiveness. Obviously the HD598 trouces the other 2 when all you want is imaging.
 The HD558 is the most balanced of the bunch however and for $120, it's a damn good buy IMO.


----------



## ATLien3000

benbenkr said:


> CAL > HD558 > HD598
> 
> This is interms of immersiveness. Obviously the HD598 trouces the other 2 when all you want is imaging.
> The HD558 is the most balanced of the bunch however and for $120, it's a damn good buy IMO.



Awesome thanks! How would the astro a40s be compared to those? Or not worth it.


----------



## DADDYDC650

MLE, have you tried this optical switcher? Read that it works great with the Astro Mixamp. http://www.amazon.com/Control-Audio-Selector-Switcher-Splitter/dp/B003C15798/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## martin vegas

Audio-Technica entered the world of gaming with its first ever gaming headsets – the closed-back ATH-AG1 and open-back ATH-ADG1 models. The design and engineering of the two models are directly influenced by Audio-Technica's A700 and AD700 Series, with both featuring large 53mm drivers and bobbin-wound CCAW voice coils. Audio-Technica says the ATH-AG1 and ATH-ADG1 will be available in spring this year for £240 and £265 respectively.


----------



## Change is Good

atlien3000 said:


> Hey guys. I said earlier I am looking to get new headphones and it has to be from newegg since I have a gift card there. I've narrowed it down to the astro a40s and mixamp for $180, CAL for $75, HD598s for $180 or the HD558s for $120. I'm trying to stay under $200 and a lot of the options recommended are way above that or not available on newegg. Which of these would give me the most fun, immersive gaming?




Get the HD558 with your coupon, and buy MLE's mixamp 2011 for $45.

Total = $165


----------



## kraken2109

martin vegas said:


> Audio-Technica entered the world of gaming with its first ever gaming headsets – the closed-back ATH-AG1 and open-back ATH-ADG1 models. The design and engineering of the two models are directly influenced by Audio-Technica's A700 and AD700 Series, with both featuring large 53mm drivers and bobbin-wound CCAW voice coils. Audio-Technica says the ATH-AG1 and ATH-ADG1 will be available in spring this year for £240 and £265 respectively.


 
 They look pretty good but they're obviously overpriced if they are essentially AD700 with a mic stuck on.


----------



## martin vegas

kraken2109 said:


> They look pretty good but they're obviously overpriced if they are essentially AD700 with a mic stuck on.


 

 I think they come with a usb dac..that's why the price is so high!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I think they come with a usb dac..that's why the price is so high!


 
  
 There is indeed a detachable USB DAC. But I would think this is so they can market it also as a USB headset. I doubt the DAC is impressive in the least. The price is so high to make money.


----------



## ATLien3000

change is good said:


> Get the HD558 with your coupon, and buy MLE's mixamp 2011 for $45.
> 
> Total = $165



Sounds good! That's exactly what I'll do. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Chubtoad

So, noone has any experience with the jds labs cmoybb v2.03?


----------



## itzpea

Hey there! Just looking for some advice here on a replacement option for my current razer headset that I am using for PC gaming and communication.
  
 I've been looking through the options and think that I have it narrowed down to getting the Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro, Astro A40 w/Mixamp, or the Audio Technica ATH-M50. 
  
 If I end up getting the headphones I was thinking about getting something like a Blue Snowball microphone to set on my desk, do you guys feel that is a viable option? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## HiVLTAGE

itzpea said:


> Hey there! Just looking for some advice here on a replacement option for my current razer headset that I am using for PC gaming and communication.
> 
> I've been looking through the options and think that I have it narrowed down to getting the Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro, Astro A40 w/Mixamp, or the Audio Technica ATH-M50.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well do you want fun sounding cans? (As in, bass, more immersion etc.) Or do you want more soundwhoring/competitive cans?
  
 Need to know a budget too.


----------



## conquerator2

chubtoad said:


> So, noone has any experience with the jds labs cmoybb v2.03?


 
 The CmoyBB is a well regarded portable amp so I am sure it's not bad, I am not sure how it compares to others in its price range, but check this - http://www.head-fi.org/t/620775/the-sub-200-portable-amps-shootout-13-11-amps-compared
  
 Or this, maybe [though it's older] - http://www.head-fi.org/t/214588/review-portable-amp-roundup-56-portable-amps-reviewed-and-compared-final-update-12-20-10-added-rsa-sr-71b


----------



## itzpea

hivltage said:


> Well do you want fun sounding cans? (As in, bass, more immersion etc.) Or do you want more soundwhoring/competitive cans?
> 
> Need to know a budget too.


 
 I'm really new to headphones/audio, but I think that I want fun? I really only use them for PC games with some light music use and then voice communication. I do some streaming/casting in games as well, but that shouldn't really be a deciding factor in what headphones I get. 
  
 My ideal price is under $200 for the headphones and a microphone, but I can go over a little ($230 max). I also need to be able to purchase them through amazon since I have some gift cards there. Hopefully that doesn't limit my options too much.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Change is Good

itzpea said:


> I'm really new to headphones/audio, but I think that I want fun? I really only use them for PC games with some light music use and then voice communication. I do some streaming/casting in games as well, but that shouldn't really be a deciding factor in what headphones I get.
> 
> My ideal price is under $200 for the headphones and a microphone, but I can go over a little ($230 max). I also need to be able to purchase them through amazon since I have some gift cards there. Hopefully that doesn't limit my options too much.
> 
> Thank you!




Stretch it to 250 and get the Fidelio X1


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## Change is Good

Just sold my 1840s... my name is a curse...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lolwut...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Lolwut...


----------



## rudyae86

Can anyone tell me why the ma900 are discontinued? I didnt want to spend 200 but i guess ill might as well go ahead and purchase them...

but does that mean, something new is replacing them..does somebody know?


----------



## itzpea

change is good said:


> Stretch it to 250 and get the Fidelio X1




I'd really prefer to not spend $250 on the headphones, can you suggest something a bit cheaper?


----------



## PurpleAngel

itzpea said:


> I'd really prefer to not spend $250 on the headphones, can you suggest something a bit cheaper?


 
 Sennheiser HD558, new $128.50, used $110.
  
 Creative Labs Sound blaster Z sound card, $60-$80
 Or Asus Xonar DG sound card, $30 ($10 mail in rebate this month).


----------



## itzpea

purpleangel said:


> Sennheiser HD558, new $128.50, used $110.
> 
> Creative Labs Sound blaster Z sound card, $60-$80
> Or Asus Xonar DG sound card, $30 ($10 mail in rebate this month).




Have you used the HD 558? Also, can you give me any information on why I need the sound card/what benefit I will get from it. I'm still confused on those since some places I read people are really against them and claim they are a waste and others say I need a sound card plus amp. 

Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## PurpleAngel

itzpea said:


> Have you used the HD 558? Also, can you give me any information on why I need the sound card/what benefit I will get from it. I'm still confused on those since some places I read people are really against them and claim they are a waste and others say I need a sound card plus amp.


 
 I've had the HD558s for a few years, they are the oldest headphones I have that I still like to use.
 The on-board audio hardware built into a motherboard is dictated by it's low cost, not audio quality.
 but in the past few years, on-board audio has been making improvements, so the more the motherboard cost and the more newer it is, the better the on-board audio quality.
 So a brand new motherboard, designed late in 2013 and costs $200 (over $150?), is going to come with some fairly decent audio hardware.
 Most motherboards seem to use a "line-output" that also pretends to be a headphone amplifier.
 Where as the Sound Blaster Z comes with a dedicated headphone jack and a more powerful headphone amplifier (then 95% of the motherboards).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Can anyone tell me why the ma900 are discontinued? I didnt want to spend 200 but i guess ill might as well go ahead and purchase them...
> 
> but does that mean, something new is replacing them..does somebody know?




No clue. It took YEARS for the MA900 to come out after the Sony F1 was discontinued, so I wouldn't hold my breath for another headphone of their design so soon.

Headphones get discontinued, such is the fact of life.

If they come out with a newer model of the MA900, you can bet your arse I'll sell something to get one.

An MA900i with better build quality, softer headband, denser pads, removable 3.5mm cable, same general sound signature... I'd be all over it.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't know, man, I'm thinking I might just downgrade... rather than get something new.I don't game as much as I used to... nor listen to soft music often enough to justify having an alternate $400 headphone just for that purpose.

Still, those new HifiMans tho...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, i TOTALLY feel you. Why do you think I've stuck with the MA900, sold off all my higher end stuff, and went back to the more convenient 5.8 despite it's worse SQ than the regular Mixamp? I hardly ever listen to music, and even now, I use my 5.8 when I watch movies/Pc and stuff. I'm over high end, and elaborate desktop solutions.

Of course, I will always want stuff like the HE-400i, but it's so far from a priority now. I wanna simplify my electronics, not add to them.

If i could, I'd go wireless EVERYTHING. Still considering the Fiio W1 in the future.

I sold the Mixamp pro, bought the A30 bundle, and selling the Mixamp as soon as I get it. That way, I basically just sold my Mixamp and paid for the A30s. I'm tired of the DX mix and the hassles that come with attaching it, so having an Astro A30 as my headset that cost me nothing in the end, seems logical.


----------



## Change is Good

atlien3000 said:


> Sounds good! That's exactly what I'll do. Thanks a lot.


 
  


change is good said:


> Get the HD558 with your coupon, and buy MLE's mixamp 2011 for $45.
> 
> Total = $165


 
  


atlien3000 said:


> Hey guys. I said earlier I am looking to get new headphones and it has to be from newegg since I have a gift card there. I've narrowed it down to the astro a40s and mixamp for $180, CAL for $75, HD598s for $180 or the HD558s for $120. I'm trying to stay under $200 and a lot of the options recommended are way above that or not available on newegg. Which of these would give me the most fun, immersive gaming?


 
  
 Might it have been this gentleman that purchased your mixamp?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Dude, i TOTALLY feel you. Why do you think I've stuck with the MA900, sold off all my higher end stuff, and went back to the more convenient 5.8 despite it's worse SQ than the regular Mixamp? I hardly ever listen to music, and even now, I use my 5.8 when I watch movies/Pc and stuff. I'm over high end, and elaborate desktop solutions.


 
  
 Oh, I still listen to a lot of music... just with my 1540s at home and SM64 on the go 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Those two won't be going anywhere.
  
 I just don't game enough, now, nor listen to classical and jazz enough to own a $400 headphone... when I'll rarely be using it...
  
 I'm thinking maybe the new K702 with some K712 pads in the future. I just emailed razordog to see if he has the bumpless K702 in stock and for how much can he discount them for. If not, I may just take a chance on one of Amazon's used warehouse deals when they drop in price. They have two different listings for the K702... and hopefully one of its used listings will be bumpless.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RCD2DW
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00866APBO
  
 Has there been any reports of them being inferior in sound because of production now being in China for the K702/Q701?
 Then again... its a new year so it may be best to wait and see what other companies have up their sleeve for the near future...


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Oh, I still listen to a lot of music... just with my 1540s at home and SM64 on the go :wink_face: . Those two won't be going anywhere.
> 
> I just don't game enough, now, nor listen to classical and jazz enough to own a $400 headphone... when I'll rarely be using it...
> 
> ...




K612 Pros are great, just saying xP


----------



## souske sagara

Which mixamp offers the best sound quality. The 2013 mixamp pro, 5.8 mixamp, turtle beach DSS, Turtle Beach DSS2 or some othe device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 2011 Mixamp pro. Though in terms of the least processed sound, the Creative Recond 3D USB. THX Tru Studio is pretty good. I prefer Dolby Headphone, but THX TS is good.


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> I don't know, man, I'm thinking I might just downgrade... rather than get something new.I don't game as much as I used to... nor listen to soft music often enough to justify having an alternate $400 headphone just for that purpose.
> 
> Still, those new HifiMans tho...


That sounds like a nice plan if you don't want to spend a lot of cash or have no need to spend hundreds on audio equipment. I'm sticking with my Philips X1 for now which I'll be using for PC gaming, music and movies. I'll be switching between my X1 and Astro a30 for consoles until they release a kick @ss wireless headset that is compatible with both the PS4 and Xbox One.


----------



## 1llest

souske sagara said:


> Which mixamp offers the best sound quality. The 2013 mixamp pro, 5.8 mixamp, turtle beach DSS, Turtle Beach DSS2 or some othe device.




I have the Mixamp pro and 2011 Mixamp.
I tested them both on my Xbox360 and the Mixamp pro has a little more clarity than the 2011 Mixamp (atleast for me)


----------



## dakanao

What is the best amp/DAC I can possibly get for the fidelio X1?


----------



## SaLX

They are pretty easy to drive, but I'd go for the Audio_gd 11.32 if I were you (can't imagine spending any more would help). The Sabre DAC will help the X1 (a bit) and it won't cost an arm or leg. Even then, getting a DAC/Amp like that is very probably going overboard - straight out the back off my SBZ it sounds great.
  
 Read this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/689313/dac-amp-for-fidelio-x1-ratings-and-recommendations-compilation-thread
  
 Ask in the Philips thread... basically neutral is what you want.


----------



## avens

mad lust envy said:


> Dude, i TOTALLY feel you. Why do you think I've stuck with the MA900, sold off all my higher end stuff, and went back to the more convenient 5.8 despite it's worse SQ than the regular Mixamp? I hardly ever listen to music, and even now, I use my 5.8 when I watch movies/Pc and stuff. I'm over high end, and elaborate desktop solutions.
> 
> Of course, I will always want stuff like the HE-400i, but it's so far from a priority now. I wanna simplify my electronics, not add to them.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Might add your choices in the OP.
  
 Also it'd be fun to review something awful on purpose, like beats or a beats knock off or those razer 7.1 things that everyone purchases so are easy to come by.


----------



## DADDYDC650

avens said:


> Might add your choices in the OP.
> 
> Also it'd be fun to review something awful on purpose, like beats or a beats knock off or those razer 7.1 things that everyone purchases so are easy to come by.


 
 I would love for MLE to review the Sony Pulse Elite headset.


----------



## jumper

change is good said:


> Has there been any reports of them being inferior in sound because of production now being in China for the K702/Q701?
> Then again... its a new year so it may be best to wait and see what other companies have up their sleeve for the near future...


 
  
 I'd be interested in hearing feedback on this too, the Q701 for $199 on Amazon are on my list too - I thought that was a pretty good deal.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Wait, the MA900's discontinued already? What the hell? I haven't even had mine that long!

Still in near-mint condition, too (in large part because chicolom cares for his stuff). Guess I better make sure it stays that way if replacements aren't guaranteed.

What is it with my preferred headphones being discontinued models, anyway? I mean, my all-time favorite headphone is a *1979* design!


----------



## DADDYDC650

souske sagara said:


> Which mixamp offers the best sound quality. The 2013 mixamp pro, 5.8 mixamp, turtle beach DSS, Turtle Beach DSS2 or some othe device.


 
 I just compared my 2011 mixamp pro with my Turtle Beach DSS. Without raising the bass on my DSS, they both sound exactly the same. As soon as I raise the bass level on the DSS, the immersion factor raises. You can't control the bass level on the 2011 mixamp pro which is a bummer. I didn't find the extra bass distracting at all and I was able to pinpoint footsteps without issue. The DSS has more hissing at high volume levels than the 2011 mixamp. The 2011 mixamp pro has hissing as well but it's faint and only at high levels compared to the 2011 mixamp pro which is a plus. Unless you are very sensitive to hissing or want your ear drums to burst, you won't notice it during gameplay on the DSS and certainly not on the 2011 mixamp.
  
 Update: I was going to return the A30 headset + 2011 mixamp pro but after listening to it all night, I've decided to keep both the DSS and 2011 mixamp. The DSS is now connected to my Xbox One and the mixamp to my PS4.


----------



## rudyae86

Soooo I just bought my first $200 headphones...the Sony MDR MA900 . Should arrive next week. Since they are now discontinued, I wonder if they get messed up or anything, how will they fix them or replace them? im more concerned about the cable since alot of peeps say its thin but I have a pair of sony mdr xd200 and the cable on those are thin and had them for 3+ years and have been going strong since, cable is still great condition. So im assuming it may be the same for the MA900.

Either way cant wait for them to arrive. But I still need one more thing....Mix Amp Pro 2013 or Recond3D USB? Im a bit confused because some people say that optical cant output 7.1 signal...and since Mix Amp Pro 2013 is 7.1...is this true? Recon3D seems like a good choice for 70-75 bucks

I need some suggestions guys  thanks

oh and another thing. mix amp 2011 and mix amp 2013.... is the sound quality better on 2011 based more on personal preference or more physical?


----------



## Railius

Guys they are finally here!! 
  
 AKG Q701 + magni amp - (Red&White Monster cable ) -  fiio (Optical) - xonar u3 - (USB) - PC
  
 I got some questiong regarding the software, 
  
 Sample rate = 48khz
 Analog out: Headphone.
 Exciter Mode
 Spdif out = PCM 
 and Dolby Headphone only when gaming,
  
 I should set on Playback the Speakers instead of the SPDIF out right?
 should i tick 7.1 surround and dolby headphone?
 Should i play with those EQ like GAME, HIFI, etc etc. and what about the GX button.
  
 Just a quick tutorial if you dont mind! and thanks for all the help! @chicolom @PurpleAngel and @Mad lust Envy !!
  
 Edit: When playing COD BO2, they only work with SPDIF (Xonar u3) also i ticked 7.1 and DH with (DH 2), magni is almost always at max volume.. and Audio Channel are set at 8. What bout in game Sound settings?
  
 Edit: Okaaay.. had to put it on Speaker Default, ( i get it, spdif overrides the Xonar) HOOOOOOLY SHT my friend! this is amazing!!


----------



## Nhilzen

I was about to buy a PC360 but reading all the good things about the Q701 i dont know.. is a big improvement over the PC360?
 Worth the extra $34?


----------



## AxelCloris

nhilzen said:


> I was about to buy a PC360 but reading all the good things about the Q701 i dont know.. is a big improvement over the PC360?
> Worth the extra $34?




In a word, yes. The Q701 is a wonderful can. For me the only reason to get the PC360 over the Q701 is if you really want a headset.


----------



## roguegeek

nhilzen said:


> I was about to buy a PC360 but reading all the good things about the Q701 i dont know.. is a big improvement over the PC360?
> Worth the extra $34?




I don't know. I can go either way on this. I'm a huge fan of the Q701, but the PC360 is no slouch. If you're buying them mostly for gaming, don't forget about the extra coat of a microphone and the time needed for the mod.


----------



## Nokami

roguegeek said:


> I don't know. I can go either way on this. I'm a huge fan of the Q701, but the PC360 is no slouch. If you're buying them mostly for gaming, don't forget about the extra coat of a microphone and the time needed for the mod.


 
 And you will need a pretty good amp too 
  
 Only for Gaming i wouldnt buy a AKG701..


----------



## damstr

Ok so I've been lurking on here for a little while and this is my first post. Had Astro A50's and was looking to "up my game." I don't game on PC anymore. I use my Xbox One on a desk with my keyboard and mouse setup just pretty much exactly like PC gaming...but on my Xbone. haha
  
 Anyway I was crossed between getting the new SteelSeries H wireless, the PC360's with the built in mic or going with DT990's 250 ohm and finding myself an Antlion Mod Mic along with a Mixamp.
  
 So I went with the DT990's with the Fiio E17 and the 2013 Mixamp. First impressions were I wasn't impressed at all. The amount of hiss the 2013 Mixamp produced was insane. Completely unacceptable IMO. Turned me off to the whole custom setup at first plus I wasn't a fan of having a cluttered desk with wires going everywhere. So I immediately order the new SteelSeries H wireless. I found them in stock somewhere on eBay. Purchased those 2 days ago and I'll have them on Tuesday. I know the whole consensus is that if they have "gaming" on the box they are usually crap. These look really amazing though to me so I had to at least try them.  
  
 Moving on I had also just purchased the older style Mixamp before it was redesigned and got it yesterday. OMG the difference between the 2013 mixamp and this 2010-11 model was amazing. I could turn up the volume all the way and get zero noticable hiss. On the 2013 Mixamp if I went past 50% on the volume knob the hiss got intolerable. Needless to say I will be returning the 2013 Mixamp! 
  
 I'm really happy with the DT990/Fiio/Mixamp setup now. I ordered the 2.3 Antlion Mod Mic a week ago. Should get it end of the month. I',m debating whether to open the SteelSeries H wireless headset though. They look awesome although I doubt they will sound as good as my DT990's BUT they are wireless...which is a weak spot for me.  I doubt I'll be able to not open them when I get them on Tuesday just to see. haha


----------



## Nhilzen

nokami said:


> And you will need a pretty good amp too
> 
> Only for Gaming i wouldnt buy a AKG701..


 
 The amp will be like $200 more right? The problem is i live in Argentina so the shipping cost is like $140 for the can and amp. 
  
 The goal is music, movies and some gaming. I have a clip on mic maybe a headset is worthless?


----------



## DADDYDC650

damstr said:


> Ok so I've been lurking on here for a little while and this is my first post. Had Astro A50's and was looking to "up my game." I don't game on PC anymore. I use my Xbox One on a desk with my keyboard and mouse setup just pretty much exactly like PC gaming...but on my Xbone. haha
> 
> Anyway I was crossed between getting the new SteelSeries H wireless, the PC360's with the built in mic or going with DT990's 250 ohm and finding myself an Antlion Mod Mic along with a Mixamp.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you purchase the 2011 mixamp from the Microsoft Store? I can hear hissing on mine but it's faint and only at high volume levels which would cause my ear drums to burst anyway. Glad you are happy with your setup.


----------



## damstr

daddydc650 said:


> Did you purchase the 2011 mixamp from the Microsoft Store? I can hear hissing on mine but it's faint and only at high volume levels which would cause my ear drums to burst anyway. Glad you are happy with your setup. :atsmile:



No I got it used off eBay. It's the version that actually says A40 Mixamp on the bottom. It's not the one that looks like the new 2013 Mixamp if that helps.

Edit: This is what I'm talking about. I actually didn't know there were 2 different version of the pre- 2013 Mixamp. After I bought it I then noticed it wasn't the one I had in mind. I thought I screwed up but everything has been great since I got it. Like I said a night and day difference compared to the 2013 Mixamp in terms of hiss.


----------



## Change is Good

Guys,
  
 Razordog is selling the K612 for $165 using coupon "K612PRO"
  
 Also, this one is for chico. he has a discount for the flagship K812 using coupon "K812PRO" (only $200 off but thought I'd share, anyway)


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Guys,
> 
> Razordog is selling the K612 for $165 using coupon "K612PRO"
> 
> Also, this one is for chico. he has a discount for the flagship K812 using coupon "K812PRO" (only $200 off but thought I'd share, anyway)


 
  
 My wallet is trying to tear a whole in my back pocket. Unfortunately I have to pass on this for the moment. House > headphones.


----------



## DADDYDC650

damstr said:


> No I got it used off eBay. It's the version that actually says A40 Mixamp on the bottom. It's not the one that looks like the new 2013 Mixamp if that helps.
> 
> Edit: This is what I'm talking about. I actually didn't know there were 2 different version of the pre- 2013 Mixamp. After I bought it I then noticed it wasn't the one I had in mind. I thought I screwed up but everything has been great since I got it. Like I said a night and day difference compared to the 2013 Mixamp in terms of hiss.


Interesting. The mixamp that came with my a30 headset looks different. I wonder if there's any differences sonically.


----------



## damstr

daddydc650 said:


> Interesting. The mixamp that came with my a30 headset looks different. I wonder if there's any differences sonically.



Yeah that's the newer design version I was talking about. That's the one I meant to order the first time off eBay. 

Question what is the orange piece on the bottom? I unplugged it and it has 2 3.5mm plugs on it. Not sure what it's for.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> My wallet is trying to tear a whole in my back pocket. Unfortunately I have to pass on this for the moment. House > headphones.




I am a weak, weak man...


----------



## JayDogon

damstr said:


> No I got it used off eBay. It's the version that actually says A40 Mixamp on the bottom. It's not the one that looks like the new 2013 Mixamp if that helps.
> 
> Edit: This is what I'm talking about. I actually didn't know there were 2 different version of the pre- 2013 Mixamp. After I bought it I then noticed it wasn't the one I had in mind. I thought I screwed up but everything has been great since I got it. Like I said a night and day difference compared to the 2013 Mixamp in terms of hiss.


 
 The volume dials and markings look so much cooler on the older one


----------



## pervysage

damstr said:


> Yeah that's the newer design version I was talking about. That's the one I meant to order the first time off eBay.
> 
> Question what is the orange piece on the bottom? I unplugged it and it has 2 3.5mm plugs on it. Not sure what it's for.


 
  
 Pretty sure that's for hooking up multiple Mixamps together for LAN gaming or something.
  
 What kind of presets does the old Mixamp have... the same 4 presets as the 2013 edition?


----------



## damstr

pervysage said:


> Pretty sure that's for hooking up multiple Mixamps together for LAN gaming or something.
> 
> What kind of presets does the old Mixamp have... the same 4 presets as the 2013 edition?



Only the 2013 has presets as far as I know.


----------



## AxelCloris

pervysage said:


> Pretty sure that's for hooking up multiple Mixamps together for LAN gaming or something.


 
  
 Exactly. It's for zero latency networking between multiple Mixamps, mainly used in squad competition gaming.
  
 As for the presets, neither of the Mixamps I've ever owned have had those, so yeah it must be exclusive to the 2013.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Guys I have a pretty specific request and I know this guide is made to help you do just that, however comfort is a huge priority for me due to a TMJ problem with my jaw.  Basically if I don't have headphones that are extremely comfortable, I can't wear them for more than an hour or so and that makes them much less valuable to me.
  
 I am looking for ones with extremely comfortable ear cushions and overall fairly light, although with a good head support the weight can be offset if they use a good system.  I am looking for headphones that are an over the ear design and perform well across the board (gaming -> music -> movies).  Also these will probably be about 50/50 between home use and office, I highly doubt they will ever see traveling (I'd just use my Nuforce NE-700XNU buds).
  
 I'm looking to stay between $150-$225 and I'm not particular to any one brand, could anyone give me any good suggestions?  BTW the features are listed in importance from start to finish, so comfort is by far the most important.  Also if there is something that is barely over $225, I would be open to look at them, but I'd prefer to stay inside that budget if possible.
  
  
 BTW my Signal Chain (Headphone) is as follows:
  
 Creative ZXR (w/ MUSES01/2x AD8597/2x ADA4627-1BRZ) -> Headphones
  
 Also while in the office I'll be using my Cowon iAudio 9+
  
  
 In terms of headphones, I've kind of been eying the thinksound on1, although they are a little outside of my price range.  Also the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 caught my eye along with the Onkyo ES-CTI300.  Closed back is what I am looking at mainly (obviously).
  
  
 I am thinking about adding a tube amp such as Bravo Audio "Ocean" (Class A Tube Amp) unless someone has a better suggestion for a sub $150 tube based amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

damstr said:


> No I got it used off eBay. It's the version that actually says A40 Mixamp on the bottom. It's not the one that looks like the new 2013 Mixamp if that helps.
> 
> Edit: This is what I'm talking about. I actually didn't know there were 2 different version of the pre- 2013 Mixamp. After I bought it I then noticed it wasn't the one I had in mind. I thought I screwed up but everything has been great since I got it. Like I said a night and day difference compared to the 2013 Mixamp in terms of hiss.




That's a first gen Mixamp which also has almost zero hiss. It's the cleanest sounding Mixamp, but it also lacks usb dac capabilities, so it won't work with the ps3 voice chat.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

After reading through 2 guides on here I ended up going with the Sony MDR-1R.


----------



## Change is Good

ncsuzoso said:


> After reading through 2 guides on here I ended up going with the Sony MDR-1R.




:blink:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

After reading all about filing for bankruptcy, I placed an order for a yacht.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

What would you have recommended for under $200?  I got them for $195 + Free SH..
  
 Also how do I get 2 responses so quickly after I made a decision, but nothing after I asked for a recommendation?
  
 Quoting the HiFi Winter 2013 Guide:
  


> The real gem in the MDR-1R lineup is, to me, the least expensive one--the passive-only Sony MDR-1R. It's the best sounding of the three, edging out its Bluetooth sibling, the MDR-1RBT. It's also, to my ears, one of the best of the sub-$500 closed headphones currently available.
> 
> The Sony MDR-1R has a sound signature that is at once smooth and detailed. Mid-bass sounds a bit north of neutral, but very tastefully so, to my ears. It doesn't quite have the visceral low-end, gut-punching drive that the V-MODA M-100 has, but, for sit-down listening in a quiet environment, the MDR-1R has what I'd call a more reference presentation. Sony's engineers focused a great deal on carefully tuning the MDR-1R's bass performance, with one key aim being to improve the quickness of the driver's response, substantially reducing the driver's rise time in the 30 to 40 Hz area. To my ears, their efforts yielded excellent results.
> The MDR-1R's midrange is also wonderful, presenting most vocals slightly forward, and with beautiful rendering of subtle details that some of its peers miss. In terms of treble, the MDR-1R has very good extension, but is never sibilant, never harsh up top, to my ears. As far as sub-$500 closed headphones go today, I can't think of another I'd pick over the MDR-1R for long-term sit-down listening sessions, across a wide variance in recording quality, and a wide variety of musical genres. The MDR-1R is available in black and silver versions.


----------



## Change is Good

ncsuzoso said:


> What would you have recommended for under $200?  I got them for $195 + Free SH..
> 
> *Also how do I get 2 responses so quickly after I made a decision, but nothing after I asked for a recommendation?*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe, because, we're responding to what you actually posted in *this* thread? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Did you ask for a recommendation here?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

change is good said:


> Maybe because you didn't post here?!?


 
  
 What are you talking about?  Look up 3 posts from your reponse...


----------



## Change is Good

ncsuzoso said:


> What are you talking about?  Look up 3 posts from your reponse...


 
  
 That didn't come out right... kinda tired, sorry... 
  
 read my edit...


----------



## NCSUZoSo

One sentence in the detailed post I made asking for a recommendation:
  


> I'm looking to stay between $150-$225 and I'm not particular to any one brand, could anyone give me any good suggestions?


 
  
 The main thing I was looking for was comfort and again from the HiFi Winter 2013 Guide on the MDR-1Rs:
  


> For all three MDR-1 family models, Nao's team also spent considerable effort to make these headphones exceedingly comfortable. A lot more went into engineering comfort into this line than we have space here to discuss, but innovations in earpad design and inventive engineering around the swivel axis were among the areas of concentration for improving comfort. *The results are three of the most comfortable closed headphones I've ever worn (especially the lighter passive-only MDR-1R)*.
> After having spent time with the new MDR-1 family of headphones, it's easy to understand Nao's ear-to-ear grin, and his proud-papa sense of pride. This is a wonderful lineup from Sony.


----------



## Change is Good

ncsuzoso said:


> One sentence in the detailed post I made asking for a recommendation:


 
  
 Sorry, don't know how I missed that. What I've read about the MDR 1R is hit or miss. Either you love them or hate them...
  
 Doing a quick *search* through *this thread *would have helped...
  
 Also, judging from various impressions I've read is that they're not rather suitable for gaming. I would have recommended the SoundMagic HP100 at your price range. I've tried many closed headphones and recommend those the most... again, at the sub $200 price range.
  
 Edit: Ooooooooh, looky here... I've reached Supremus!


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Well I read a review on the SoundMagic HP100s and they do sound like a great pair of headphones, that may suit my needs better overall.  I'll see if I can get my order canceled.
  
 Next time I want a recommendation I'll just post I bought the worst pair of headphones for the most money I can find  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   
  
 Thanks for your help.  I just hope they are as comfortable as the Sony's are supposed to be.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rudyae86 said:


> Soooo I just bought my first $200 headphones...the Sony MDR MA900
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good score on the MA900! The cable may be thin, but I haven't had any problems with it so far...would prefer it to be detachable, though.
  
 You'll find there's a lot of marketing spiel out there, and that underlined bit is one of them. The thing is that both Dolby Digital and DTS only have six discrete channels for a 5.1 setup. Anything beyond that has to be matrixed into the existing channels, much as Dolby Pro Logic II has to cram those main six channels into a two-channel signal.
  
 It's not like having the extra side channels is that big of a deal, though. What matters is that you can distinguish front and rear like you can left and right.
  
 As for Mixamp vs. Recon3D (I don't know why people keep doing that, because _there is no extra "d" in "Recon3D"_), I suppose part of it depends on whether you need to use it with a PC as well, or just want it for console gaming. The need for Dolby Pro Logic II decoding for PS2, GCN and Wii games may also be a deal-breaker. But other than that, it largely depends on whether you prefer Dolby Headphone or THX TSP Surround in the end.


----------



## mosse33

Hi all
Im looking for a pair of headphones mainly for gaming
I have sennheiser pc360 and rog vulcan,
And a creative z soundcard
 the pc360 r great but I'm in a noisy room so get a lot of background noise
the vulcan r good for stopping the background noise but the pc360 r much better sound. 

I'm looking at the 
sennheiser pc350 se
DT770 pro 250 ohm

Just need some advice on these 2 headset or any others
play mainly battlefield 4
thanks


----------



## conquerator2

K612 for gaming is tops.
Tested them thoroughly and they beat the MA900 for me.
The imaging with the Ks is sublime and they provide a more focused experience imo.
I found the extra air the MA 900 provides to be slightly distracting and the imaging to be a bit indistinct sometimes... 
The X1 to me does surprisingly well here too.

The good is that the MA don't require extra amping, apart from the AKGs. 

Also, I was a big closed headphone supporter but for gaming it's a no contest... They sound way too canned and congested ;/


----------



## Nokami

-


----------



## mosse33

conquerator2 said:


> K612 for gaming is tops.
> Tested them thoroughly and they beat the MA900 for me.
> The imaging with the Ks is sublime and they provide a more focused experience imo.
> I found the extra air the MA 900 provides to be slightly distracting and the imaging to be a bit indistinct sometimes...
> ...



I need closed headphones as im in a room with other people and t.v and that is why I have problems with the pc360


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Edit: Ooooooooh, looky here... I've reached Supremus!


 
  
 Congratumilations! I still have a ways to go before I hit that status.


----------



## mosse33

Does anyone know what the k550 are like for gaming


----------



## ecjcc

ecjcc said:


> Thanks,
> 
> just for my layman knowledge, what would the difference in terms of surround, soundstage and pinpointing be between these 2 configs:
> 
> ...


 
 Thks,
  
 I finally got a dss version 1, but is it all the same in terms of audio quality the SoundBlaster Recon3D? Does the Recon3D handle both audio+chat? Would you recommend one over the other?
  
 Thks


----------



## AxelCloris

mosse33 said:


> Does anyone know what the k550 are like for gaming


 

 I personally found the K550 dull and lifeless on their own with music, so I wouldn't expect them to be any fun for gaming. That said there are others who absolutely love them. I am not among those people.
  


ecjcc said:


> Thks,
> 
> I finally got a dss version 1, but is it all the same in terms of audio quality the SoundBlaster Recon3D? Does the Recon3D handle both audio+chat? Would you recommend one over the other?
> 
> Thks


 
  
 I can't speak to the sonic differences, but the Recon3D can definitely handle chat.


----------



## mosse33

axelcloris said:


> I personally found the K550 dull and lifeless on their own with music, so I wouldn't expect them to be any fun for gaming. That said there are others who absolutely love them. I am not among those people.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the sonic differences, but the Recon3D can definitely handle chat.



Its looking like the pc350 se unless someone has any other suggestions
Been reading mixed reviews on dt770


----------



## chicolom

mosse33 said:


> Its looking like the pc350 se unless someone has any other suggestions
> Been reading mixed reviews on dt770


 
  
  
 Not sure how good their isolation is, but soundmagic HP100 are closed and have decent soundstage FWIR.


----------



## Nokami

mosse33 said:


> Its looking like the pc350 se unless someone has any other suggestions
> Been reading mixed reviews on dt770


 
 Before i got an AD700 i had an PC350 and the isolation is for a closed Headset really bad. You will hear most things out their, just at a bit lower Volume.


----------



## mosse33

nokami said:


> Before i got an AD700 i had an PC350 and the isolation is for a closed Headset really bad. You will hear most things out their, just at a bit lower Volume.



Was looking at the ad 700 but they are open headphones
R the sennheiser pc350 se that bad


----------



## mosse33

any thoughts on the
 a700
 akg 550


----------



## AxelCloris

The A700 and K550 have both been discussed at length throughout the thread. I'd recommend using the search option when you have a few minutes to read through everything that's been said about both of them.


----------



## Change is Good

mosse33 said:


> any thoughts on the
> a700
> akg 550




As Chico mentioned, try the HP100 from soundmagic.


----------



## widdyjudas

Just build a new pc and sold my asus U3. My mobo Asus z87pro got onboard realtek soundcard with 8 channel sound and optic out. Do I still need to buy internal soundcard (which asus xonar if I need it) for gaming and music?
 I'm using Aune X1 as DAC with optical in from the onboard/internal soundcard.


----------



## AxelCloris

The Realtek® ALC1150 does indeed put out 8 channel audio but looking over the spec sheet while it can output audio in DTS via DTS connect it can't do Dolby Headphone like your Asus U3 did before. Since you're using the Aune X1 and it's working perfectly for you now you'll simply need a basic card that can provide Dolby Headphone and then run out into the Aune. You won't be using the DAC or amp in the soundcard so it doesn't need to be expensive. The Xonar DG can get you DH easily and can be found online around $20 when on sale. Then run optical out to your Aune as you currently are and resume enjoying your gaming to the fullest.


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks for the reply axel. So no good then the onboard realtek, I still need a discrete soundcard for surround gaming right?
 I'm eyeing for xonar DX and DS. The DX is a bit expensive, but the DS can output 7.1 and cheaper. Any opinion?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006  XONAR DX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132013  XONAR DS


----------



## AxelCloris

Both sound cards can output sound over toslink to your Aune X1. It looks like the DS doesn't supply Dolby Headphone but DX does. So I'd scratch the DS off your list. When you compare what you're getting from the DX vs the DG in your setup there's little difference. You'll be using the Aune X1 as your DAC/amp, so you don't really care much about those components in the soundcard. The DX does output 7.1 but that'll be mixed down close to the same with the DH in the end. Your Aune will do the same output sample rate with both cards. The DX does come with a 3 year warranty, so that's a bonus with the more expensive unit.
  
 If you want a better card and don't plan to always use it with your Aune then go for the DX so you have the better components when using the internal DAC and amp. But if you'll always have it with the Aune the DG will get you there for less.


----------



## widdyjudas

How about the DG and DGX? any difference?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132020
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132052R
 24/96 sample rate got no effect compared to 24/192 if I'm using my dac right? My aune x1 can out 24/192 via optic and coax.
 5.1 and 7.1, any significant difference? or just minor? I'm using fidelio X1.
 Also, I know its off topic i'm sorry, but is it worth to get a gtx770 4gb over the 2gb one? The difference is 40usd and i usually do 1080p gaming. Gigabyte, MSI or asus?


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> How about the DG and DGX? any difference?
> 
> Also, I know its off topic i'm sorry, but is it worth to get a gtx770 4gb over the 2gb one? The difference is 40usd and i usually do 1080p gaming. Gigabyte, MSI or asus?


 
  
 The DG is PCI and the DGX is PCI-E. 
  
 I went with a 2GB GTX 770.  FWIR, spending extra for the 4GB on a 770 is a waste of money, especially if you only do 1080p gaming.  The 770 isn't really fast enough to utilize it properly. 
  
 The version (Gigabyte, MSI, Asus, PNY, etc) doesn't matter too much as long as your getting the aftermarket cooling versions (Twin FRZR, Windforce, Direct CU, etc.).  So I'd shop for whichever is cheapest.


----------



## widdyjudas

So, better to go dg or dgx? 5.1 good enough compared to 7.1? Since i'm only using cans for surround gaming.
No worth getting 4gb one then, i think i get the asus one then. Thanks chico.


----------



## SaLX

> The DG is PCI and the DGX is PCI-E


 
 Your next motherboard probably won't have a PCI slot.


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> Your next motherboard probably won't have a PCI slot.


 
  
 Actually, I don't even think his _current _motherboard has one.  AFAIK only the Z87-A and Z87-Plus have "legacy" PCI slots.  Anything above that, including the Z87-Pro, are all PCI-E only.


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks Chico, so its safer to buy the xonar DGX then.
 Any recommendation from creative?


----------



## roguegeek

chicolom said:


> The DG is PCI and the DGX is PCI-E.
> 
> I went with a 2GB GTX 770.  FWIR, spending extra for the 4GB on a 770 is a waste of money, especially if you only do 1080p gaming.  The 770 isn't really fast enough to utilize it properly.
> 
> The version (Gigabyte, MSI, Asus, PNY, etc) doesn't matter too much as long as your getting the aftermarket cooling versions (Twin FRZR, Windforce, Direct CU, etc.).  So I'd shop for whichever is cheapest.


 
 Good card. I'm at my 18 month point to cycle through a new card and it's been between the 770 or wait another couple of weeks for an R9 290 with a good non-reference cooler. Since the majority of my PC gaming is BF4, right now, I'm waiting for the 290 and Mantle.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Thanks Chico, so its safer to buy the xonar DGX then.
> Any recommendation from creative?


 
  
 Creative's Sound Blaster Z (OEM) would be their current equivalent to the Xonar DGX.


----------



## gamefreak054

So recently I have been considering getting into headphone gaming. However the headphones I will be using will be the Alpha Dogs (which I dont have yet as my mad dogs are being upgraded atm). As described in MLE's reviews the Alpha Dogs are quite revealing so I was wondering if something like this would be too noisy: Optical (PS4 or surround Processor)->Turtle Beach DSS-> Schiit Magni-> Alpha Dogs. I pretty much just want to dabble into headphone gaming at the moment so I really do not want to spend too much. The set up I game on speaker wise is pretty good, but I live with my parents until I am finished with school which inherently has its problems. I want to know if the chain will be good enough for the headphones I am using, and do the DH dacs limit the quality of the sound too much for gaming. I basically do not want something that makes my headphones sound like a bose sound bar. I kinda get what the headphone technology is doing, but I have never heard it applied to anything good. I have only heard the DH through the cheapo turtle beaches which sounded horrible imo and often had way too much bass. 
  
 Otherwise I listen to my Music through headphones on my DX100 as it has a better dac section than anything min my household and is easy to move from room to room. I watch movies on a different set up in our house.


----------



## widdyjudas

Thanks, I stick with asus DGX then. Unless they have an offer for the DX


----------



## conquerator2

gamefreak054 said:


> So recently I have been considering getting into headphone gaming. However the headphones I will be using will be the Alpha Dogs (which I dont have yet as my mad dogs are being upgraded atm). As described in MLE's reviews the Alpha Dogs are quite revealing so I was wondering if something like this would be too noisy: Optical (PS4 or surround Processor)->Turtle Beach DSS-> Schiit Magni-> Alpha Dogs. I pretty much just want to dabble into headphone gaming at the moment so I really do not want to spend too much. The set up I game on speaker wise is pretty good, but I live with my parents until I am finished with school which inherently has its problems. I want to know if the chain will be good enough for the headphones I am using, and do the DH dacs limit the quality of the sound too much for gaming. I basically do not want something that makes my headphones sound like a bose sound bar. I kinda get what the headphone technology is doing, but I have never heard it applied to anything good. I have only heard the DH through the cheapo turtle beaches which sounded horrible imo and often had way too much bass.
> 
> Otherwise I listen to my Music through headphones on my DX100 as it has a better dac section than anything min my household and is easy to move from room to room. I watch movies on a different set up in our house.


 
 The DSS is fine for gaming if that's what you're asking.
 It might not be the best DAC out there [though right now for console gamers like myself it kinda is...] but it is good enough to get its job done and appreciate different headphones and their strengths/weaknesses.
 Planarmagnetics are not sensitive to noise at all and even most dynamics don't really have a problem with it, only the most sensitive ones, certainly not the Alpha Dogs.
 I've tested quite a few different headphones with the DSS [well the TB PX5 DSS] and the DH is very good, though it varies from HP to HP, but no muddiness or anything.
 I'd recommend open headphones for gaming but the Alpha Dog is pretty great so, you should be good.
 Open headphones certainly help with the naturalness and all, but if you don't have a pair on hand to compare, you wouldn't know :]
 The DSS is definitely sufficient and you can tell good and bad headphones apart easily.


----------



## gamefreak054

conquerator2 said:


> The DSS is fine for gaming if that's what you're asking.
> It might not be the best DAC out there [though right now for console gamers like myself it kinda is...] but it is good enough to get its job done and appreciate different headphones and their strengths/weaknesses.
> Planarmagnetics are not sensitive to noise at all and even most dynamics don't really have a problem with it, only the most sensitive ones, certainly not the Alpha Dogs.
> I've tested quite a few different headphones with the DSS [well the TB PX5 DSS] and the DH is very good, though it varies from HP to HP, but no muddiness or anything.
> ...


 
 Thank you. This is pretty much the answer I was looking for. For some reason I was typing a really long explanation of what I wanted, however I wanted to make sure it was obvious what I was looking for.
  
  I am pretty much sticking to the Alpha Dogs as they are really the only headphone I can afford at the moment and have the sound signature that I love for music. Also it almost has to be closed back as the room I play in has 2 channels connected to a system in another room to play music in that general area (in which my mom does all the time and I hate pop music).


----------



## conquerator2

gamefreak054 said:


> Thank you. This is pretty much the answer I was looking for. For some reason I was typing a really long explanation of what I wanted, however I wanted to make sure it was obvious what I was looking for.
> 
> I am pretty much sticking to the Alpha Dogs as they are really the only headphone I can afford at the moment and have the sound signature that I love for music. Also it almost has to be closed back as the room I play in has 2 channels connected to a system in another room to play music in that general area (in which my mom does all the time and I hate pop music).




Ok, I think the Alpha Dog is a very good choice then.


----------



## Quietsy

Just wanted to thank you for this great guide which helped me choose Philips Fidelio X1 and I absolutely love them.


----------



## AxelCloris

roguegeek said:


> Good card. I'm at my 18 month point to cycle through a new card and it's been between the 770 or wait another couple of weeks for an R9 290 with a good non-reference cooler. Since the majority of my PC gaming is BF4, right now, I'm waiting for the 290 and Mantle.


 
  
 Oh man am I eyeing that R290, and I don't even have a desktop built currently. I'm really interested in seeing the how the AMD TrueAudio is going to be worked into games. This has the potential to be somewhat of a game changer in the PC gaming sector. Hell, it may even flood over into console gaming since it's in the PS4.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Oh man am I eyeing that R290, and I don't even have a desktop built currently. I'm really interested in seeing the how the AMD TrueAudio is going to be worked into games. This has the potential to be somewhat of a game changer in the PC gaming sector. Hell, it may even flood over into console gaming since it's in the PS4.


 

 I have two radeon AMD7990s..they have a coil wine..i had to get a case with soundproofing to get rid of the noise!


----------



## DADDYDC650

For anyone in the know, would raising the gain level on my Creative ZXR to high gain (600 ohm) damage my Philips X1's? That's the level I had it on when I used my no-name headphones simply because I was curious and didn't care if they were damaged. No damage was done after about 3 months of use. Thoughts?
  
 Another question, why is it that my TB DSS (noticeable amount and Astro Mixamp (slight hiss at max) have hissing but the amp in my ZXR has none even at max volume?


----------



## conquerator2

daddydc650 said:


> For anyone in the know, would raising the gain level on my Creative ZXR to high gain (600 ohm) damage my Philips X1's? That's the level I had it on when I used my no-name headphones simply because I was curious and didn't care if they were damaged. No damage was done after about 3 months of use. Thoughts?
> 
> Another question, why is it that my TB DSS (noticeable amount and Astro Mixamp (slight hiss at max) have hissing but the amp in my ZXR has none even at max volume?




No setting the gain to high won't damage your X1 as long as you have them on and don't max out the volume. Rule of thumb is to always adjust the volume with the headphones on 

As for the DSS hiss I believe it's due to the higher output impedance. The higher the headphones impedance the less hiss, except for orthodynamics. 
Though I rarely get any hiss with just a few HPs.


----------



## DADDYDC650

conquerator2 said:


> No setting the gain to high won't damage your X1 as long as you have them on and don't max out the volume. Rule of thumb is to always adjust the volume with the headphones on
> 
> As for the DSS hiss I believe it's due to the higher output impedance. The higher the headphones impedance the less hiss, except for orthodynamics.
> Though I rarely get any hiss with just a few HPs.


Makea sense. Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## conquerator2

daddydc650 said:


> Makea sense. Thanks for the quick reply.


 
 You're welcome :]


----------



## TheReal14O

Considering the recent spike in price of the MA900s would getting the X1 for about $30 more be worth it? I've been having trouble deciding which headphone to get and the MA900s being discontinued doesn't help! I'd be using the headphones for PS4 gaming and would probably pair it with the Turtle Beach DSS. I'd also use the headphones with my PC using my on board audio to listen music (electro, synthpop, indie, and much more!) and PC games. I wouldn't be getting an amp or sound card for quite some time. So I have a few choices, get the MA900s from djdeals for around $182 although many people have had troubles with the site, buy it off Amazon for $220, or spend a bit more and get the X1 off Amazon for $250. What do you all think?


----------



## chicolom

thereal14o said:


> Considering the recent spike in price of the MA900s would getting the X1 for about $30 more be worth it? I've been having trouble deciding which headphone to get and the MA900s being discontinued doesn't help! I'd be using the headphones for PS4 gaming and would probably pair it with the Turtle Beach DSS. I'd also use the headphones with my PC using my on board audio to listen music (electro, synthpop, indie, and much more!) and PC games. I wouldn't be getting an amp or sound card for quite some time. So I have a few choices, get the MA900s from djdeals for around $182 although many people have had troubles with the site, buy it off Amazon for $220, or spend a bit more and get the X1 off Amazon for $250. What do you all think?


 
  
 I would go with the X1s.  They are a very good buy at their current sale price of $249 this month.


----------



## Sam21

omg guys!! check this out:
  
 http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_U7_Echelon_Edition


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Well, Change Is Good, I got the Sony's refunded and I got the SoundMagic HP100 for $189.93 w/ Free Shipping, from the reviews I have read I am really excited to try these out.
  
 They may not look as cool as the Sony MDR-1Rs, but they are supposed to have absolutely amazing sound.
  
  
 Thanks again for your recommendation for a comfortable pair of over the ear closed headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

ncsuzoso said:


> Well, Change Is Good, I got the Sony's refunded and I got the SoundMagic HP100 for $189.93 w/ Free Shipping, from the reviews I have read I am really excited to try these out.
> 
> They may not look as cool as the Sony MDR-1Rs, but they are supposed to have absolutely amazing sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Make sure you report back and let us know how you like them!


----------



## CGBSpencer

Sorry for a noon uestion. But I had seeing the picture of how to connect the xbox through a mixamp to a headphone amp etc. Questions if the amp is connected by rca and they show only right and left channel can the sound on the headphones through the amp can be surround. Thanks


----------



## CGBSpencer

Noob question. I had seen the picture of how to connect a mixamp to a head phone amp, just curious do u still get surround sound in your headphones from the amp even you connect 2 rca cables meaning only 2 channels of audio.


----------



## 1llest

cgbspencer said:


> Sorry for a noon uestion. But I had seeing the picture of how to connect the xbox through a mixamp to a headphone amp etc. Questions if the amp is connected by rca and they show only right and left channel can the sound on the headphones through the amp can be surround. Thanks


 
  
 Mixamp > Y Splitter > 3.5mm to RCA > Headphone amp > Headphone
  
 You will still get surround as you just amplify the output of the mixamp


----------



## CGBSpencer

Sorry for the 2 post I'm on my phone.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Question for anyone that has owned both the Astro Mixamp 2011 and Astro wireless 5.8 mixamp. How much more does the 5.8 wireless hiss compared to the Mixamp 2011? Other than the bass boost in the 5.8 wireless, are there any other differences sonically? Thinking about purchasing the a30's + 5.8 wireless. I think it would be wise for me to purchase it since there are no other wireless mixamps that are compatible with any headphones and I'm sure once they are all gone, I'll be out of luck.


----------



## chicolom

sam21 said:


> omg guys!! check this out:
> 
> http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_U7_Echelon_Edition


 
  
 Meh. 
  
 I prefer my audio gear look sleek and elegant, not hardcore and uber leet.  I can see a controller looking alright with a camo skin, but not a headphone amplifier.
  


cgbspencer said:


> Noob question. I had seen the picture of how to connect a mixamp to a head phone amp, just curious do u still get surround sound in your headphones from the amp even you connect 2 rca cables meaning only 2 channels of audio.


 
  
 While the mixamp needs a 5.1 DD _source _to work correctly, it's Dolby Headphone _output _is only 2 channels (which is why it works with your _stereo _headphones).  The surround sound effect comes from the HRTF cues that are processed into the sound. 
  
 So RCA cables are perfectly fine.


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> Question for anyone that has owned both the Astro Mixamp 2011 and Astro wireless 5.8 mixamp. How much more does the 5.8 wireless hiss compared to the Mixamp 2011? Other than the bass boost in the 5.8 wireless, are there any other differences sonically? Thinking about purchasing the a30's + 5.8 wireless. I think it would be wise for me to purchase it since there are no other wireless mixamps that are compatible with any headphones and I'm sure once they are all gone, I'll be out of luck.


 
  
 I wouldn't worry too much about the hiss.  Unless you pause the game and listen for it it shouldn't really be an issue.  The 5.8 sounds the same apart from the bass boost toggle.


----------



## CGBSpencer

Thank u very much


----------



## Sam21

"I prefer my audio gear look sleek and elegant, not hardcore and uber leet.  I can see a controller looking alright with a camo skin, but not a headphone amplifier."
  
  
 The Sonic Radar caught my attention.


----------



## AxelCloris

Asus, stop decorating your already lovely cards in camouflage and and instead make OS X drivers. If you do I will once again become an Asus owner post haste.


----------



## DADDYDC650

chicolom said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the hiss.  Unless you pause the game and listen for it it shouldn't really be an issue.  The 5.8 sounds the same apart from the bass boost toggle.


 
 Well, certain games have quiet moments. I don't  want to be distracted by hiss. I wouldn't mind if the hissing is only prominent at ear bursting volume levels though.


----------



## TheReal14O

chicolom said:


> I would go with the X1s.  They are a very good buy at their current sale price of $249 this month.


 
  
 Still trying to decided and reading more reviews and opinions on the X1 isn't making this easy. I guess right now it would have to be which one is better for the type of music I listen to (electronic, synthpop, and indie to name a few) as I feel both would be good for gaming. Also between the MA900 and X1, does one perform better than the other when both are without a soundcard/amp? Thanks for the help.


----------



## DADDYDC650

thereal14o said:


> Still trying to decided and reading more reviews and opinions on the X1 isn't making this easy. I guess right now it would have to be which one is better for the type of music I listen to (electronic, synthpop, and indie to name a few) as I feel both would be good for gaming. Also between the MA900 and X1, does one perform better without a soundcard/amp? Thanks for the help.


 
 I owned both headphones. X1 FTW.


----------



## TheReal14O

daddydc650 said:


> I owned both headphones. X1 FTW.


 
 Very elaborate response! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I just checked and the X1 wants me to pay $20 for taxes with a total of about $272 so about $52 more than the MA900. So I ask you this, is the X1 $52 FTW better than the MA900? (You can elaborate on this question if you'd like hehe). Thanks!


----------



## DADDYDC650

thereal14o said:


> Very elaborate response!
> 
> I just checked and the X1 wants me to pay $20 for taxes with a total of about $272 so about $52 more than the MA900. So I ask you this, is the X1 $52 FTW better than the MA900? (You can elaborate on this question if you'd like hehe). Thanks!


Yes it's $52 better than THE MA900. The X1 is more fun. Basically a notch above THE MA900 sonically. There's plenty of posts on here to determine that yourself. If you would rather save $52 and settle for THE MA900, you would still be makinga nice choice. If you need extra bass and a more fun sounding headphone, go for the X1. You're welcome.


----------



## chicolom

thereal14o said:


> Still trying to decided and reading more reviews and opinions on the X1 isn't making this easy. I guess right now it would have to be which one is better for the type of music I listen to (electronic, synthpop, and indie to name a few) as I feel both would be good for gaming. Also between the MA900 and X1, does one perform better than the other when both are without a soundcard/amp? Thanks for the help.


 
  
 Both are fine for those genres, although the X1 has a healthier dose of bass which probably bring more fun for those genres.  Both are easy to drive and sound good off the more modest devices, so I wouldn't worry about either one there. 
  
 The MA900 is a very good choice in the under ~$200 bracket, and the X1 is very good choice in the under ~$350 bracket.  So the X1 is a tier up from the MA900.
  
 Keep in mind the X1 will go back up to its regular $299 price after January 31st.


----------



## TheReal14O

chicolom said:


> Both are fine for those genres, although the X1 has a healthier dose of bass which probably bring more fun for those genres.  Both are easy to drive and sound good off the more modest devices, so I wouldn't worry about either one there.
> 
> The MA900 is a very good choice in the under ~$200 bracket, and the X1 is very good choice in the under ~$350 bracket.  So the X1 is a tier up from the MA900.
> 
> Keep in mind the X1 will go back up to its regular $299 price after January 31st.


 
 Well I just ordered the X1. These will be the first real headphones that I've bought. Thanks for pushing me to spend more money!


----------



## Cruhx

Asus Xonar Essence STX -> V-Moda M-100 (w/ XL earpads + boompro mic)
  
 How would this set-up suffice for PC gaming? Would it give me positional audio for competitive games like Counterstrike, battlefield, etc.?  I chose this set-up because I want great PC sound, music sound, and I want a portable headset.  I am also really digging the aesthetics.  How would the headset work for gaming?


----------



## Change is Good

cruhx said:


> Asus Xonar Essence STX -> V-Moda M-100 (w/ XL earpads + boompro mic)
> 
> How would this set-up suffice for PC gaming? Would it give me positional audio for competitive games like Counterstrike, battlefield, etc.?  I chose this set-up because I want great PC sound, music sound, and I want a portable headset.  I am also really digging the aesthetics.  How would the headset work for gaming?


 
  
 No many of us, here, have tried the M100... but @Evshrug currently owns them and may help you in this matter.


----------



## chicolom

thereal14o said:


> Well I just ordered the X1. These will be the first real headphones that I've bought. Thanks for pushing me to spend more money!


 
  
 You're welcome.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Quote:


cruhx said:


> Asus Xonar Essence STX -> V-Moda M-100 (w/ XL earpads + boompro mic)
> 
> How would this set-up suffice for PC gaming? Would it give me positional audio for competitive games like Counterstrike, battlefield, etc.?  I chose this set-up because I want great PC sound, music sound, and I want a portable headset.  I am also really digging the aesthetics.  How would the headset work for gaming?


 
  
 Closed portable headphones wouldn't be my first choice for competitive gaming...


----------



## Cruhx

Mine either, but I want versatile headphones as I'm 17 and don't have a large enough income for multiple pairs of headphones. Again, I'll be using them for music (both On my PC and iPhone) as well as competitive gaming. With the XL earpads (to make the headphones semi-open), and the fact that the M-100s have an impedance of only 32 ohms, what would be the best possible sound card or DAC (or combination) for positional audio?

(if I could choose any 2 pairs of headphones it'd be the M-100s and either the Fidelio X1s or the AKG Q701s.)


----------



## Mops123

Hi , i am looking for a gaming headset (wireless if possible), or a solution for a good pair of headphones and a wireless microphone or something like that
 i read the reviews but the only ones y liked (skullcandy) i cant get them in argentina.
  
 i can spend arround 150dlls.
  
 brands that usually get to my country: audio technica, sennsheiser, phillips, techniks , shure, akg , panasonic, logitech, razer, Beyerdynamic, steelseries, etc.
  
 thanks, any advice will be considered.


----------



## AxelCloris

mops123 said:


> Hi , i am looking for a gaming headset (wireless if possible), or a solution for a good pair of headphones and a wireless microphone or something like that
> i read the reviews but the only ones y liked (skullcandy) i cant get them in argentina.
> 
> i can spend arround 150dlls.
> ...


 
  
 Does the $150 need to include the shipping to Argentina?


----------



## GorillaSceptre

Has anyone here used Razer Surround? I've been using it for a couple day's and i find it better than Dolby Headphone.
  
 It's free on razors site if you want to check it out.


----------



## Ultimatepancake

Just discovered this awesome thread and I have some questions:
 I'm considering buying a mixamp and I'll probably go with either the DSS(2) or Astro Mixamp Pro, what I'm wondering is how the sound quality compares between them. Which one has less hissing? Better sound processing?
 Also should I go DSS1 or 2? Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 or older version?


----------



## kenshinhimura

dss1 over dss2 for real dolby headphone surround sound. if your going to use chat get one of the mixamps, if not the dss1.


----------



## mosse33

ncsuzoso said:


> Well, Change Is Good, I got the Sony's refunded and I got the SoundMagic HP100 for $189.93 w/ Free Shipping, from the reviews I have read I am really excited to try these out.
> 
> They may not look as cool as the Sony MDR-1Rs, but they are supposed to have absolutely amazing sound.
> 
> ...



Let us know what you think of the hp100 as I am torn between hp100 or dt770
Thanks


----------



## martb

Hi fellas, Ive just switched from 360 to PS4 and need a mic could anyone recommend one to use with a y splitter connected to 5,8 mixamp. I use DT880s (32ohm) and Denon D2Ks for gaming but im thinking of selling the beyers and gettying the X1s would it be a worthwhile upgrade for gaming, Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I feel selling the 880s and getting the X1 is logical. you can buy the Vmoda boom mic, and you'll have an instant headset whenever you need it.


----------



## Nokami

idk what to do...   I have an AD700 atm but could just get an AKG701 for 180€ without an good AMP. Currently i have an Xonar DG which has an low budget amp thats simply not good enough.   Would the akg701 without an amp be better then my AD700? 
  
 I would buy an amp in ~2 month


----------



## Chubtoad

Ok, this is going to sound extremely nub, I received my X1's this morning and I am trying to use a different cable other than the stock one, but I cant connect either the monoprice 3.5mm mobile cable or the V-Moda Audio cable into my Asgard 2. The gold plated mini jack adapter is to big for either of those cables and won't fit on them properly, so what do I do? is there some kind of special adapter that will fit onto these? there just standard 3.5mm cables on either end. It looks like the AKG K702 stock cable is larger than a normal 3.5mm cable so maybe thats why it fits properly with the provided adapter.
  
 would any 3.5mm to 6.3 or 6.35mm adapter work?
  
 I have them currently plugged into my PC sound card directly and wow these have some awesome bass lol. I'll try them directly from the astro mixamp later but I would like to get an adapter that lets me use the amp as well.


----------



## AxelCloris

chubtoad said:


> Ok, this is going to sound extremely nub, I received my X1's this morning and I am trying to use a different cable other than the stock one, but I cant connect either the monoprice 3.5mm mobile cable or the V-Moda Audio cable into my Asgard 2. The gold plated mini jack adapter is to big for either of those cables and won't fit on them properly, so what do I do? is there some kind of special adapter that will fit onto these? there just standard 3.5mm cables on either end. It looks like the AKG K702 stock cable is larger than a normal 3.5mm cable so maybe thats why it fits properly with the provided adapter.
> 
> would any 3.5mm to 6.3 or 6.35mm adapter work?
> 
> I have them currently plugged into my PC sound card directly and wow these have some awesome bass lol. I'll try them directly from the astro mixamp later but I would like to get an adapter that lets me use the amp as well.


 
  
 You'll need an adapter. The Asgard 2 has 1/4" output and those two cables are 1/8". Any adapter should work, if you have one handy just use it. Some companies include adapters like that with their 1/4" equipment. But I've never owned the Schiit A2 so I can't say if that one did or not.


----------



## Chubtoad

something such as this? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042903&p_id=7139&seq=1&format=2


----------



## AxelCloris

That would work perfectly. You may also be able to pick one up locally for $1.50 and not mess with the shipping.


----------



## Chubtoad

the thing is the annies came with an adapter like this, its just to big to fit onto any other size cable it seems because the annie cable has a larger piece connection from the looks of it than a standard 3.5mm. I suppose I can order one of those and try it out.


----------



## Mops123

axelcloris said:


> Does the $150 need to include the shipping to Argentina?


 no.


----------



## AxelCloris

chubtoad said:


> the thing is the annies came with an adapter like this, its just to big to fit onto any other size cable it seems because the annie cable has a larger piece connection from the looks of it than a standard 3.5mm. I suppose I can order one of those and try it out.


 
  
 Is the one that came with the Annies the type that screws onto the cord? If so then I have a similar type at home that won't work with my V-Moda cable. I have to use on that's flat on the 1/8 end. Does your cable on the Annies look like this, from AKG's site? [Link] If it does then yours has the screw on style adapter and may not work well with other cables.


----------



## Chubtoad

axelcloris said:


> Is the one that came with the Annies the type that screws onto the cord? If so then I have a similar type at home that won't work with my V-Moda cable. I have to use on that's flat on the 1/8 end. Does your cable on the Annies look like this, from AKG's site? [Link] If it does then yours has the screw on style adapter and may not work well with other cables.


 
 yes, thats the exact looking cable. it has a screw on style.


----------



## Cruhx

V-Moda M-100s for gaming? I want versatile headphones as I'm 17 and don't have a large enough income for multiple pairs of headphones. I'll be using them for music (both On my PC and iPhone) as well as competitive gaming. With the XL earpads (to make the headphones semi-open), and the fact that the M-100s have an impedance of only 32 ohms, what would be the best possible sound card or DAC (or combination) for positional audio?


----------



## AxelCloris

chubtoad said:


> yes, thats the exact looking cable. it has a screw on style.


 
  
 You'll want one that looks like this then, where there is no "lip" on the outside edge. It will work with any 3.5mm cable.
  
 I don't know if it's any good, probably isn't bad, but here's one from RadioShack for $0.18.
  


mops123 said:


> no.


 
  
 I'm not all that familiar with their international shipping, but Amazon has the PLYR 1 listed as available for shipping outside the US, and Argentina is listed as one of the countries to which they will ship. It's on sale at $129 USD currently as well. Will they ship this to you?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Skullcandy-Surround-SMPYFY-003-Not-Machine-Specific/dp/B00C2B2Y9A/
  


cruhx said:


> V-Moda M-100s for gaming? I want versatile headphones as I'm 17 and don't have a large enough income for multiple pairs of headphones. I'll be using them for music (both On my PC and iPhone) as well as competitive gaming. With the XL earpads (to make the headphones semi-open), and the fact that the M-100s have an impedance of only 32 ohms, what would be the best possible sound card or DAC (or combination) for positional audio?


 
  
 Evshrug likes his M-100 for gaming.
  


evshrug said:


> I haven't heard the closed Beyer DT770, but the V-MODA M-100 does a great job for a closed headphone, a little bit of a warmer can but imaging and detail is good and it works well with surround processing.


----------



## AxelCloris

User error. Meant to edit my last post.


----------



## Chubtoad

axelcloris said:


> You'll want one that looks like this then, where there is no "lip" on the outside edge. It will work with any 3.5mm cable.
> 
> I don't know if it's any good, probably isn't bad, but here's one from RadioShack for $0.18.


 
  
 Yeah, looks like I'll need to order one then. Thanks.


----------



## Drastion

First I want to thank MLE, Chicolom, and others for all the work they put into this thread. You made what I never knew could be so complicated into something far mor simplified. Got my Q701 like a fear and half ago and still love them. Just ordered a pair x1s they were exactly what I wanted the dt 990 for but without the treble that I knew I wouldn't have been able to handel.

That astro sale got me back into looking at headphones. Specifically the HE 400 but with that out of favor now and the x1 price made for an easy decision. Maybe a little too easy as I bought it before really thinking it through. A lot of money for a snap decision but I trust tour guys judgment. 

MLE

Read through some of the old posts to see where you path to enlightenment took you. A while back you mentioned you were considering getting a fiio W1. I have been trying to go wireless for a long while. Although I can't find any reviews for it. Would you be interested in doing a review? I could order one through micca store or wherever you think is best. You could use it as long as you like or just send it back if its not worth the price paid.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I just ordered a 5.8 mixamp. Do I need the TB PS4 chat cable for the mic to work on my BoomPro + X1's? I'm trying to get the mic to work on my Playstation 4 with this setup.


----------



## DADDYDC650

So, after using the Astro a30 headset for almost a week, I can safely say that I love these lil b@stards! The headset came with the Astro Mixamp for $79.99 which can still be purchased @ the Microsoft store. They seem cheaply built but look nice and look to be very sturdy. They are very comfortable even for my big head and the sound is great although they don't match up wth my X1's but that's to be expected. Since the a30's are lightweight and comfortable, I often find myself using them over the X1's. They are very portable and the mic can be detached so you won't look like a dork when walking out and about. I'm not going to pretend that I'm an audiophile but I do know what good sounding headphones are and these fit in that category. They sound balanced and well rounded. When listening to music or gaming, I don't seem to hear anything missing compared to my X1's. The sound stage in games is great and I have no problem locating enemies at all. From what I remember, they sound as good if not better than the Astro a50's. For the price, these are an amazing set of cans.


Forgot to mention that they sound great connected to my Samsung Note 3. No distortion at max volume and plenty loud for my ears. I'm surprised by the amount of bass actually. They won't reach Beats levels but it gets the job done.


----------



## Mops123

axelcloris said:


> I'm not all that familiar with their international shipping, but Amazon has the PLYR 1 listed as available for shipping outside the US, and Argentina is listed as one of the countries to which they will ship. It's on sale at $129 USD currently as well. Will they ship this to you?


 
 yes but no, they will ship it but argentinian custom for import are "closed".
 so i will buy the headphones in "argentinian amazon" : www.mercadolibre.com.ar (maybe you can translate the page with google and give me a hand), my budget is 3000$ pesos.
 i am looking for a wireless headset (or detachable cable):
 my main options are:
 logitech g930
 corsair 2100
 turtlebeach xp300
 steelseries Spectrum 7xb
 thanks
 ps: none of the headphones i found interesting (at least 7/10 avg) are or really expensive here or dont get here.


----------



## Ultimatepancake

kenshinhimura said:


> dss1 over dss2 for real dolby headphone surround sound. if your going to use chat get one of the mixamps, if not the dss1.


 
 Thanks, I don't really need the chat mixer so I think I'll go DSS1. On amazon though the price is ridiculously cheap (15$). Almost seems to me like it's too good to be true; is it?
 Also the guide says there's background noise, how bad is it? Is it REALLY noticable?


----------



## DADDYDC650

ultimatepancake said:


> Thanks, I don't really need the chat mixer so I think I'll go DSS1. On amazon though the price is ridiculously cheap (15$). Almost seems to me like it's too good to be true; is it?
> Also the guide says there's background noise, how bad is it? Is it REALLY noticable?


If you pause the game you'll hear it but it's not loud and you won't hear it while you game. $15 is a great deal.


----------



## Ultimatepancake

daddydc650 said:


> If you pause the game you'll hear it but it's not loud and you won't hear it while you game. $15 is a great deal.


 
 Sweet! Definitely getting one then


----------



## jTizMLG

I'm having trouble deciding between the AD500x and AD700x.
  
 I mostly want a competitive edge against my opponent.
  
 Would the ad500x be "enough" if its just for competitive gaming?


----------



## rikstaker

I jave the dss 1 paired with ma900 and I can only makeout background noise at more than 80% volume on the dss1 and I dont losten at volumes that high.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Turtle Beach released the world's first DTS HP X Device (which costs 400€ here btw). They might as well have a new DSS incoming. 
  
*FIDELIO X1 150 Bucks from AMAZON COM!*
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=cm_sw_su_dp


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> Turtle Beach released the world's first DTS HP X Device (which costs 400€ here btw). They might as well have a new DSS incoming.
> 
> *FIDELIO X1 150 Bucks from AMAZON COM!*
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=cm_sw_su_dp


 
 What a deal that is!
 I already have them though :/
  
 Could we get a link for that headphone-X TB?


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> *FIDELIO X1 150 Bucks from AMAZON COM!*
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=cm_sw_su_dp


 
  
  
WTFBBQ!!
  
 That's an _Insane_ deal!


----------



## DADDYDC650

conquerator2 said:


> What a deal that is!
> I already have them though :/


 
 LuLz! Don't think this deal will last before the day ends. I'm returning my X1's that I just received and purchasing them at this INSANE price!!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Turtle Beach i60 DTS HEADPHONE X
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/iseries-headsets/ear-force-i60/391


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> LuLz! Don't think this deal will last before the day ends. I'm returning my X1's that I just received and purchasing them at this INSANE price!!!!


 
  
 You might be able to contact Amazon and get them to just price refund you the difference.  If not though, yeah I would rebuy them at $150 and then return your first pair.


----------



## DADDYDC650

chicolom said:


> You might be able to contact Amazon and get them to just price refund you the difference.  If not though, yeah I would rebuy them at $150 and then return your first pair.



Trying to do that now actually. So happy that I decided to stay up late tonight. I was watching Jimmy Fallen and surfing the net on my iPad when I came upon this deal. What luck.

Just got them to give me a refund. Great customer service. Weird but my X1's sound even better now. I call it reverse pocket burn-in.


----------



## martb

Wow, Thanks for posting this amazing deal on the X1, Ive just ordered the X1 and the V-Moda Mic for £147 including the import charges deposit, The headphones alone are currently £190 on amazon UK, Well Happy.


----------



## Wetworks

Saw this deal pop up in my inbox.  Had $50 in Amazon gift cards so I bought the X1 and am going to return the Creative Aurvana Live! headphones I ordered over Christmas.


----------



## rudyae86

Just ordered the fidelio x1 LMAO and I havent receieved my MA900s yet in the mail, should be here in 3 days...OMG i never though i spend over 200 bucks in headphones but the X1s at 150 were so hard to resist. So i guess when i get both, i will have to see which is better sounding and might sell one of them eventually


----------



## kraken2109

rudyae86 said:


> Just ordered the fidelio x1 LMAO and I havent receieved my MA900s yet in the mail, should be here in 3 days...OMG i never though i spend over 200 bucks in headphones but the X1s at 150 were so hard to resist. So i guess when i get both, i will have to see which is better sounding and might sell one of them eventually


 

 Why sell? Surely you can just send the pair you don't want back for a full refund?


----------



## conquerator2

rudyae86 said:


> Just ordered the fidelio x1 LMAO and I havent receieved my MA900s yet in the mail, should be here in 3 days...OMG i never though i spend over 200 bucks in headphones but the X1s at 150 were so hard to resist. So i guess when i get both, i will have to see which is better sounding and might sell one of them eventually




I also own both. So far they are keepers with the K612s
K612s.
Instead, the W1000X had to go xP


----------



## Mops123

mops123 said:


> yes but no, they will ship it but argentinian custom for import are "closed".
> so i will buy the headphones in "argentinian amazon" : www.mercadolibre.com.ar (maybe you can translate the page with google and give me a hand), my budget is 3000$ pesos.
> i am looking for a wireless headset (or detachable cable):
> my main options are:
> ...


 

 bump


----------



## Wetworks

Regarding the X1, is it common knowledge to buy a replacement cable for the stock cable?  Wondering if I should just buy the cable now or wait and test out the headphones first.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, the X1 for $150. That is mind blowing. If I had the funds, I'd totally get them. Half tempted on selling the MA900s, getting the X1 and a V moda boom mic. Though since the A30s will behere soon, I won't need to do that, so it's not necessary.


----------



## Wetworks

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, the X1 for $150. That is mind blowing. If I had the funds, I'd totally get them. Half tempted on selling the MA900s, getting the X1 and a V moda boom mic. Though since the A30s will behere soon, I won't need to do that, so it's not necessary.


 
  
 You like the X1's better than the MA900?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. They're different. I like them both about the same. But the X1 has the advantage of being able to become a headset with the vmoda mic cable. The MA900's cable isn't removable, so I'm stuck using my clip on mic, which loves to tangle. 

I'm looking for simplicity and versatility now. If I hadn't ordered the A30 bundle, I'd have bought the X1.


----------



## DADDYDC650

wetworks said:


> Regarding the X1, is it common knowledge to buy a replacement cable for the stock cable?  Wondering if I should just buy the cable now or wait and test out the headphones first.


I haven't found anything wrong with the stock cable compared to my V-MODA BoomPro cable. Sounds similar to each other.


----------



## sandrojpsantos

Hello everyone. Out of suggestion. Can anyone help me with a solution for this "problem"? > sound-card-to-play-both-pc-and-playstation-surround-audio-is-it-possible-astro-mixamp
  
 Thank you all in advance


----------



## Chubtoad

I sent them an email about a refund of the price difference and got a response almost instantly. Refund incoming in 2-3 days. Now that's customer service for you.


----------



## gamefreak054

chubtoad said:


> I sent them an email about a refund of the price difference and got a response almost instantly. Refund incoming in 2-3 days. Now that's customer service for you.


 
 Amazon? 
  
 Honestly I thought they have gone down hill a bit lately. You can hardly buy cheap cables, and connectors any more as you have to spend at least $25 if it is considered an "add on". Then on top of that their shipping has become ridiculously overpriced if you do not qualify for free shipping. I was playing around with an order of around $25, and the total price was $50 total once the shipping was included. They also raised the free shipping up to $35. Granted this could all be avoided by purchasing their prime membership, but I do not do enough amazon shopping to warrant that. Also you could avoid Amazon Items all together. I pretty much avoid Amazon now unless something big is on sale. I was purchasing cheap CDs, and what not for a little while.
  
 Their CS is top notch though.


----------



## conquerator2

gamefreak054 said:


> Amazon?
> 
> Honestly I thought they have gone down hill a bit lately. You can hardly buy cheap cables, and connectors any more as you have to spend at least $25 if it is considered an "add on". Then on top of that their shipping has become ridiculously overpriced if you do not qualify for free shipping. I was playing around with an order of around $25, and the total price was $50 total once the shipping was included. They also raised the free shipping up to $35. Granted this could all be avoided by purchasing their prime membership, but I do not do enough amazon shopping to warrant that. Also you could avoid Amazon Items all together. I pretty much avoid Amazon now unless something big is on sale. I was purchasing cheap CDs, and what not for a little while.
> 
> Their CS is top notch though.


 
 I generally prefer Ebay for international orders though Amazon has improved there considerably IMO.
 Amazon.uk is pretty good though [especially with frequent discounts]


----------



## avens

Have you read the news?
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2014-highlight-new-sennheiser-gaming-and-dj-headphones
  
 I hope you test them both (or at least the open ones) as soon as possible. Make it happen sennheiser, send him one.


----------



## SaLX

Alas those headphones are basically reskinned versions of their older models. Read MLE's review of the PC360 - it's a great competitive headset.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, the X1 for $150. That is mind blowing. If I had the funds, I'd totally get them. *Half tempted on selling the MA900s*, getting the X1 and a *V moda boom mic*. Though since the A30s will behere soon, I won't need to do that, so it's not necessary.


 
  
 Have you thought about getting the MA900 modded so it can have a hanging entry like this?
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 



  
 ... but with a 3.5mm entry, instead, for the boom mic? Just a thought...


----------



## ecjcc

axelcloris said:


> I personally found the K550 dull and lifeless on their own with music, so I wouldn't expect them to be any fun for gaming. That said there are others who absolutely love them. I am not among those people.
> 
> 
> I can't speak to the sonic differences, but the Recon3D can definitely handle chat.


 
 hi, has anyone tested dss1 vs recon3d? 
  
 thks


----------



## chicolom

ecjcc said:


> hi, has anyone tested dss1 vs recon3d?
> 
> thks


 
  
 Both devices have been discussed plenty throughout the thread.
  
 One uses Dolby Headphone (DSS) and the other THX Trustudio (Recon).


----------



## Drastion

I probably already know the answer. I already ordered my x1 and they still haven't shipped. They must have sold out now as I don't see the $150 price. Any chance of getting an adjustment or am I sol for working mornings and being asleep by the time the deal was posted.

Like wouls it have been documented somewhere that it was on sale?


----------



## 1llest

drastion said:


> I probably already know the answer. I already ordered my x1 and they still haven't shipped. They must have sold out now as I don't see the $150 price. Any chance of getting an adjustment or am I sol for working mornings and being asleep by the time the deal was posted.
> 
> Like wouls it have been documented somewhere that it was on sale?




If you havent received the item or its within 7 days of delivery then they should be able to refund you the difference. Give them a call!


----------



## Murder Mike

1llest said:


> If you havent received the item or its within 7 days of delivery then they should be able to refund you the difference. Give them a call!


 
  
 The sale price is gone, so I doubt they will. Never hurts to try though.


----------



## Drastion

Gave them a call but ther were sold out. So the price on there was $300 while I paid $250. Guy was a bit leary about helping me. He did match the lowest price of $222 for a used set so gave me $30 in store credit. Not $100 but a lot better than the sorry I can't help you I was expecting.

Would have been sweet to get my friend a pair of x1s to go along with the 5.8 mixamp I ordered him. Hope he will like the a30s that come with it.

$220 is still a great deal I assume the $150 was a price mistake.


----------



## retiredat21

Thanks for contacting us about the recent price change on Philips Fidelio X1/28 Over-Ear Headphones. I'll be happy to help you. 

I recognize you have a choice of retailers and appreciate that you prefer to order from us. 

Since the price of the item has changed within seven days of the delivery of the order, I've issued a refund for the price difference in the amount of $109.50. You should see the refund in the next 2-3 business days. 


Thats the email i received.. received my x1s 4days ago


----------



## Drastion

Guess it was a deal of the day not a mistake.

Ended up on SD and dead shortly after. Man do I have a love/ hate with that site. So many people buying them just to sell them for a profit.


----------



## conquerator2

AKG K612s getting so little love.
 Yet they nudge the MA900/X1 when amped :/


----------



## TheReal14O

I chatted with Amazon and they said that there were no listings for it for $150, so if any of you have some screenshots please share haha. Also was it from a third party?


----------



## retiredat21

drastion said:


> Guess it was a deal of the day not a mistake.
> 
> Ended up on SD and dead shortly after. Man do I have a love/ hate with that site. So many people buying them just to sell them for a profit.


it was actually a lightning deal


----------



## 1llest

conquerator2 said:


> AKG K612s getting so little love.
> Yet they nudge the MA900/X1 when amped :/




You like the AKG612 better than the X1 when amped? Ive always wanted to try that and the K712.


----------



## Drastion

thereal14o said:


> I chatted with Amazon and they said that there were no listings for it for $150, so if any of you have some screenshots please share haha. Also was it from a third party?




I asked about that over the phone. The guy said they had filters that would stop him from getting the image. Didn't push the issue to hard as I didn't realize at the time it was amazons own sale I was trying to match. Tried the email thing see if that helps. Was going to check this morning but had to rush to work only to get stuck behind a train and almost late for work forgetting all about it.


----------



## conquerator2

1llest said:


> You like the AKG612 better than the X1 when amped? Ive always wanted to try that and the K712.


 
 It obviously depends on what kind of signature you are looking for.
 The three are rather different.
 But in terms of tonal accuracy, balance and imaging [both music and gaming] the K612 beats them.
 The MA900 wins in the midrange bloom/air and the X1 in bass and sub-bass quantity but I feel like the K612, especially for 200 bucks everywhere, is the better rounded and more detailed headphone.
 It is brighter than both though [in a sense that there is more highs + extension].
  
 Needless to say, as my very first entry into AKG territory, I am certainly not disappointed.


----------



## conquerator2

drastion said:


> I asked about that over the phone. The guy said they had filters that would stop him from getting the image. Didn't push the issue to hard as I didn't realize at the time it was amazons own sale I was trying to match. Tried the email thing see if that helps. Was going to check this morning but had to rush to work only to get stuck behind a train and almost late for work forgetting all about it.


 
 Funny enough it says it is the X1 in my e-mail feed but when I click on the link it takes me to the CRASH headphones - http://www.amazon.com/gp/goldbox/ref=pe_36900_112015270_dotd_h_t


----------



## DADDYDC650

Here's a screenshot of this mornings deal for those needing proof for a price adjustment via Amazon chat. GL!


----------



## TheReal14O

drastion said:


> I asked about that over the phone. The guy said they had filters that would stop him from getting the image. Didn't push the issue to hard as I didn't realize at the time it was amazons own sale I was trying to match. Tried the email thing see if that helps. Was going to check this morning but had to rush to work only to get stuck behind a train and almost late for work forgetting all about it.


 
  
 Yeah I sent an email also, will let you know what happens. I purchased them 2 days ago and received them today (first impressions are pretty good!). Gonna suck if I can't get a refund considering how recently I purchased them lol.


----------



## TheReal14O

daddydc650 said:


> Here's a screenshot of this mornings deal for those needing proof for a price adjustment via Amazon chat. GL!


 
 Thanks, I'll use that if the email doesn't work!


----------



## AxelCloris

retiredat21 said:


> it was actually a lightning deal


 
  
 No, it was the deal of the day. But since it sold out by 10:30 they replaced it with another deal. I have the email from this morning showing it as the daily deal.


----------



## retiredat21

Yeah sorry for my mistake.. i just checked my email too.. gold box deal of the day..


----------



## rudyae86

LoL I actually ordered the X1s when i woke up this morning at 5am CST and i was like "mmm...lets see whats going on at amazon in my wishlist", since I had the X1s on my 3rd page wishlist I just randomly went to it.

To my surprise, the X1s were 150 dollars....I was like WHAT!?. I told myself maybe this is a glitch on amazon website or something. So I quickly came on here to check if anyone knew because i was going to post the news anyways....and then to my surprise again, someone posted hours before that the X1s in fact were on sale. I saw them yesterday for 250 and when I saw them for 150 today in the morning, I was like add to cart NOW lol.

Now I have an MA900 that i ordered last week which should be here tomorrow and on top of that, the X1s...I wasnt really looking to spend more than 200 but being on this website makes your wallet go crazy...and get hurt a bit.

But this is a true story lol.

I just cant wait to see which I like more and sell one off because well....this is a business world and we need to make money .

But then again I might just keep both lol


----------



## TheReal14O

After emailing them using the picture provided by DADDYDC650 and letting them know that a few of you received refunds and purchased the X1 for $150 they emailed me back with the same reply retiredat21 got:
Hello, 
I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused. I understand that you'd like to get the refund. 
I recognize you have a choice of retailers and appreciate that you prefer to order from us. 
I've issued a refund for the price difference in the amount of $109.00. You should see the refund in the next 2-3 business days. 
  
So thanks so much guys!


----------



## retiredat21

thereal14o said:


> After emailing them using the picture provided by DADDYDC650 and letting them know that a few of you received refunds and purchased the X1 for $150 they emailed me back with the same reply retiredat21 got:
> [COLOR=333333]Hello, [/COLOR]
> [COLOR=333333]I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused. I understand that you'd like to get the refund. [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]I recognize you have a choice of retailers and appreciate that you prefer to order from us. [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
> ...


happy for you bro!


----------



## jTizMLG

jtizmlg said:


> I'm having trouble deciding between the AD500x and AD700x.
> 
> I mostly want a competitive edge against my opponent.
> 
> Would the ad500x be "enough" if its just for competitive gaming?


 
 bump


----------



## Kosole88

Hello,
  
 I have gone through almost the whole OP and read the most interesting HPs´ reviews at least twice and came to the conclusion that the Sony MA 900 would be great for me.
  
 But although I read MLE´s review several times I am still confused by the low impedance of the HP ( 15 ohm ).
 I have an about ten years old Yamaha RX V 430 and in the manual is written something of
  
 phones output:  0.34V / 560 ohm.
  
 I was already almost buying them, but then I read this on amazon.uk:
  
  
  
_By _
_*M. Thompson "Jukemark"*_

  


_At times they sounded good, but mostly they sounded boring with no Bass. I am no Bass head, and I would never own Dre's but these are VERY Bass light. I used them with a Meridian Explorer DAC/AMP using lossless music on a MacBook Pro so they had a good chance to shine. But they didn't for me, sent them back._
  
  
  
  and there was one comment I absolutely don´t understand, perhaps due to my bad english...
  
  
  
_SC says:_  

_This happened because the Meridian Explorer has a 48 Ohm output impedance. One of the MA900's definining characteristics is their low impedance (15 Ohm) so your source must have at most 2 Ohm output impedance (the "1/8th rule"), otherwise there will be strange (and often unpredictable) results._

  
  
  
 Does that mean the Sony MA 900 is absolutely not the right choice for my Yamaha?
 Which impedance should an AV receiver have to handle the Sony right?
  
  
 If that kind of question has been asked several times, I want to apologize for myself, but I have searched in the internet and on this forum for over an hour and haven´t found an clearing answer.
 Having said that it would be very kind if anybody could help me.


----------



## Ultimatepancake

rikstaker said:


> I jave the dss 1 paired with ma900 and I can only makeout background noise at more than 80% volume on the dss1 and I dont losten at volumes that high.


 
 Sweet! even better


----------



## safwanc

i just ordered the philips x1 from the amazon deal. any idea how these compare to the ad900x's?


----------



## Change is Good

That was a superb deal on the X1s for whoever got them. Congratulations! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm almost certain, however, there will be an X2 coming _real_ soon...


----------



## DADDYDC650

change is good said:


> That was a superb deal on the X1s for whoever got them. Congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I hope the X2  will make an appearance in the coming months. I also hope the X1's will still sell for $200+ so I can sell them and put that cash towards the X2's. That is unless Philips screws things up.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> That was a superb deal on the X1s for whoever got them. Congratulations!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Indeed it was.  And my body is ready for an X2.
  
  
 ...So, K612 eh??


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> ...So, K612 eh??


 
  
 Yup... and they arrive, tomorrow...


----------



## rudyae86

So when something like this happens with a pair of headphones ie. X1s going on sale or MA900 discontinued (i ordered both by the way lol), does it usually mean another new headphone will come out? And in a matter of months?

I know this is a bit of topic but i would like to know. I have been told that when the Sony F1 was discontinued, it took a while before the MA900 was released...so maybe that will be a different pattern. But what about the X1? What is its routine or how will its routine be with a product that continues using its SQ or make it better?


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Yes, normally in any market if they discontinue a model a new one is on the way.


----------



## chicolom

I wouldn't hold my breath on a replacement model from Sony.  They can take a while to come out with headphones.  It took forever after the F1 was discontinued for the MA900 to show up. 
  
 I think a X2 is more likely, but I'm not sure what Philips's plan is.


----------



## kman1211

Yea, although hopefully Sony releases something open-back soon because without the MA series they don't really have any open headphones in their line-up anymore.


----------



## chicolom

Yeah, Sony needs more open headphones.


----------



## kman1211

Yeah, they do. I also wish they would go back to the bio-cellulose drivers and make a new a family of headphones using the drivers.


----------



## JayDogon

kman1211 said:


> Yeah, they do. I also wish they would go back to the bio-cellulose drivers and make a new a family of headphones using the drivers.


 
 I thought that process was long and expensive though


----------



## kman1211

jaydogon said:


> I thought that process was long and expensive though


 
 Well the Fostex TH600/900, the Creative Aurvana Live 1 & 2, and the older Fostex made Denons use bio-cellulose drivers, no reason Sony can't. I guess I'm wanting an R10 successor.


----------



## Drastion

thereal14o said:


> Thanks, I'll use that if the email doesn't work!




Huge thanks for posting that. Had to email a few times but once I put that pic in it went right on threw. Funny was in such a rush that morning I forgot to button more the top few buttons on my shirt. Sat down for the morning meeting and my shirt practically fell off. Good laugh for everyone so day was off to a light hearted start.


----------



## benbenkr

Wow... Just saw the Amazon deal. $150 for the X1, deal of the day or not... just for that few hours, the X1 just propelled to be the BEST.EVER.HEADPHONE for the price-performance bracket. I don't think there is in history in the last 10 years where a headphone would sound so good for $150. Those who got it at that price, congratulations.
  
 On a side note, I got another X1 back in December 2013 before Christsmas. Have till 31st of Jan to return it, think it would work if I ask for a refund?


----------



## DADDYDC650

benbenkr said:


> Wow... Just saw the Amazon deal. $150 for the X1, deal of the day or not... just for that few hours, the X1 just propelled to be the BEST.EVER.HEADPHONE for the price-performance bracket. I don't think there is in history in the last 10 years where a headphone would sound so good for $150. Those who got it at that price, congratulations.
> 
> On a side note, I got another X1 back in December 2013 before Christsmas. Have till 31st of Jan to return it, think it would work if I ask for a refund?


Doesn't hurt to try. E-mail support and include the picture of the sale's price that I posted a few pages back for proof.


----------



## Brick3

*Between ad700 and hd598 which has more forward mids and intimate sounding and better for multiplayer overall?*
 I've had fidelio x1 last week which is a fabulous headphone but due to its extra bass it lack a bit clarity for multi games so i decided to buy a second headphone for multiplayer purpose mainly and use the x1 for film, music and non-competetive games.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Brick3

benbenkr said:


> Wow... Just saw the Amazon deal. $150 for the X1, deal of the day or not... just for that few hours, the X1 just propelled to be the BEST.EVER.HEADPHONE for the price-performance bracket. I don't think there is in history in the last 10 years where a headphone would sound so good for $150. Those who got it at that price, congratulations.
> 
> On a side note, I got another X1 back in December 2013 before Christsmas. Have till 31st of Jan to return it, think it would work if I ask for a refund?


 
 Would be true if it was 150$ but it's actually 250-300$.Right this moment it's 295$.


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Wow... Just saw the Amazon deal. $150 for the X1, deal of the day or not...* just for that few hours,* the X1 just propelled to be the BEST.EVER.HEADPHONE for the price-performance bracket. I don't think there is in history in the last 10 years where a headphone would sound so good for $150. Those who got it at that price, congratulations.


 


brick3 said:


> Would be true if it was 150$ but it's actually 250-300$.Right this moment it's 295$.


 
  
 Everything Benbenkr said was true. 
  
 It _was_ $150, and presented an insane value in headphones at that price.  Deals like that never last very long though, and you're a day late and $100-150 dollars short. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
  


brick3 said:


> *Between ad700 and hd598 which has more forward mids and intimate sounding and better for multiplayer overall?*
> I've had fidelio x1 last week which is a fabulous headphone but due to its extra bass it lack a bit clarity for multi games so i decided to buy a second headphone for multiplayer purpose mainly and use the x1 for film, music and non-competetive games.
> Thanks in advance.


 
  
 HD598 has more forward mids and is more intimate.  AD700 is brighter, lighter sounding, and has a larger soundstage.
  
 They're both excellent for competitive (with AD700 being slightly more so).  The AD700 is a little harder to live with singature-wise, due to the lack of bass and dry bright sound - but if you're _only _using it for competitive it will be OK.
  
 Another option would be to try to reduce the bass on the X1 with some EQ.  The DSS can also do this a little bit.  This would improve their competitive ability, as their soundstage and detail are more than enough already and the only real problem is the bass can get intrusive.


----------



## Kosole88

kosole88 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have gone through almost the whole OP and read the most interesting HPs´ reviews at least twice and came to the conclusion that the Sony MA 900 would be great for me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Does anybody have any advice?
  
 Should I look for some headphones with higher impedance, like the Sennheiser 598?
  
 Or should I take something with much more impedance like the DT 990?


----------



## chicolom

I _believe _the MA900 has some kind of impedance compensator that makes its low impedance a non-issue in regards to matching with a low ohm source. 
  
 With that said, I can't guarantee what it will sound like off of your AV Receiver.  If your receiver truly does have a _560 ohm_ output impedance on the HP jack, that is crazy high and you might want to look into getting a dedicated headphone amp instead.  Maybe it's trying to say that it can _drive_ 560 ohm headphones...?
  
  
 Anyways, pick the headphone that best fits your tastes/preferences, NOT the headphone that best fits your other gear.


----------



## Brick3

chicolom said:


> Everything Benbenkr said was true.
> 
> It _was_ $150, and presented an insane value in headphones at that price.  Deals like that never last very long though, and you're a day late and $100-150 dollars short.


 
 ı know, he said it like if the actual price of the headphone is 150$ so..


> HD598 has more forward mids and is more intimate.  AD700 is brighter, lighter sounding, and has a larger soundstage.
> 
> They're both excellent for competitive (with AD700 being slightly more so).  The AD700 is a little harder to live with singature-wise, due to the lack of bass and dry bright sound - but if you're _only _using it for competitive it will be OK.
> 
> Another option would be to try to reduce the bass on the X1 with some EQ.  The DSS can also do this a little bit.  This would improve their competitive ability, as their soundstage and detail are more than enough already and the only real problem is the bass can get intrusive.


 
 Yes, i've tried that and the change turned it to a more bright sounding sig.which is great but i'm really avid when it comes to competetive gaming (cod mainly) hence decided to give a shot to either one of these headphones.If the difference isn't worth the price i'll return it anyway.
 Thanks for the answer.


----------



## chicolom

brick3 said:


> I know, he said it like if the actual price of the headphone is 150$ so..


 
  
 He clearly stated that the $150 price was for the daily deal, not the _regular _price that the headphone goes for.
  


benbenkr said:


> Wow... Just saw the *Amazon deal*. $150 for the X1,* deal of the day or not... just for that few hours*, the X1 just propelled to be the BEST.EVER.HEADPHONE for the price-performance bracket.


----------



## rudyae86

So im wondering, like the above post...Would the X1s be able to have a sound signiture near an MA900 for competitive gaming by using the EQ and reducing the Bass on the X1s?

Because if thats the case, then I wouldnt mind keeping the X1s and selling the MA900s if its possible


----------



## Brick3

chicolom said:


> He clearly stated that the $150 price was for the daily deal, not the _regular _price that the headphone gees for.


 
 Yeah but it still sounded like if that was the actual price.


----------



## chicolom




----------



## Change is Good

Sorry to _change_ the subject... but...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 

 

 
 

 


  
  Pads are much thinner and made of different material those of the K712. How does it sound? So far, let's just say... did these really only cost me $165?


----------



## kraken2109

change is good said:


> Sorry to _change_ the subject... but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Awesome, please write a review, headfi has like none!


----------



## chicolom

rudyae86 said:


> So im wondering, like the above post...Would the X1s be able to have a sound signiture near an MA900 for competitive gaming by using the EQ and reducing the Bass on the X1s?
> 
> Because if thats the case, then I wouldnt mind keeping the X1s and selling the MA900s if its possible


 
  
 Don't you already own or have both headphone on the way?  You can just compare them for yourself and see which you like better.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Sorry to _change_ the subject... but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 $165?  Is that from Razor Dog?
  
 How much ear room is there inside?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Sorry to _change_ the subject... but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Could you try the K712 pads and tell us how they compare?
I could use thicker pads...


----------



## Change is Good

double post


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> $165?  Is that from Razor Dog?
> 
> How much ear room is there inside?





  
 Yup! I posted it the day I ordered them. Coupon code *K612PRO*
  
 Similar to that of the Annie pads...
  
 He also has a coupon for $200 off the K812... *K812PRO *




  
 Quote:


conquerator2 said:


> Could you try the K712 pads and tell us how they compare?
> I could use thicker pads...


 
  
 Sorry, don't have it anymore...


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> He also has a coupon for $200 off the K812... *K812PRO *


 
  
 Yeah.  No head-funds right now, but I'll keep it in mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got the A30s in...

I guess they'll do for gaming when I need chat, but the initial impression with music is... meh.

Kinda makes me wish I jumped on the X1 deal, and bought the vmoda mic.

BtW Mixamp pro 2011 BRAND NEW with all the cables for $55 shipped. GET AT ME BROS.


----------



## AxelCloris

I wish I hadn't slept through the X1 deal. I woke up around 10:30 and it was all sold out at that point. The pains of working second shift.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Got the A30s in...
> 
> I guess they'll do for gaming when I need chat, but the initial impression with music is... meh.
> 
> ...


 
  


axelcloris said:


> I wish I hadn't slept through the X1 deal. I woke up around 10:30 and it was all sold out at that point. The pains of working second shift.


 
  
 I put it in my cart that morning, before school, but it was listed as it wouldn't ship until 1-2 months. I checked an hour later and it was no longer sold by seller selected... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I was going to order the mixamp 5.8 combo, but decided to pass on that. I had a feeling I might have to order some K712 pads, and it looks like I'm going to.


----------



## Kosole88

The ohm number of my receiver really confuses me, but it has been working really well for the time I own it, so I don´t want to replace it until it´s broken - and because the new consoles have eaten my money reserves.
  
 After moving into a student flat I used a cheap Sony MDRZX300B with 24 ohm on my receiver and it worked not that worse, but perhaps it was only because I don´t know how good something like the MA 900 could sound...
  
 My brother has a similar old, but nevertheless absolutely better Yamaha receiver with which he is running a DT 990 Pro 250ohm version.
 He likes it, but IMO it had too high treble what I found ear piercing and I can imagine I would get headache after hours of using it.
 Besides the treble I think the DT 990 Pro is an amazing sound experience.
  
  
 Nevertheless, I will test the MA 900 and hope it will fit my taste.
  
  
 Thanks for your response Chicolom.
  
  
 PS:
  
 A real pity I am not living in the US, otherwise I would have ordered the Fidelio X1 for the price of 150$...


----------



## Change is Good

Okay guys, based of quick impressions, I think the K612 is officially the _go to_ open headphone at sub $200. Pretty much even through the whole spectrum, with slightly forward mids, and extends pretty nicely for it to be open... definitely not bass light when called for. The soundstage is not as open as the Q701, and maybe not as open as the K712 (can't really tell off memory)... but more open than the 1840. 
  
 I'm in love! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 $165?!? Really?!? They're plenty worth the full price... but _thank you_, Razordog!


----------



## Murder Mike

change is good said:


> Okay guys, based if quick impressions, I think the K612 is officially the _go to_ open headphone at sub $200. Pretty much even from bottom to top with slightly forward mids, and extends pretty low for it to be open... definitely not bass light when called for. The soundstage is not as open as the Q701, and maybe not as open as the K712 (can't really tell off memory)... but more open than the 1840. I'm in love!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's all good to hear, but how does it sound without a beefy amp?


----------



## Change is Good

Sounds like any other AKG without an amp, my friend... no surprise there.
  
 I will say, however, that off my Nexus 5 it actually sounds decent at full volume.


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> Okay guys, based of quick impressions, I think the K612 is officially the _go to_ open headphone at sub $200. Pretty much even through the whole spectrum, with slightly forward mids, and extends pretty nicely for it to be open... definitely not bass light when called for. The soundstage is not as open as the Q701, and maybe not as open as the K712 (can't really tell off memory)... but more open than the 1840.
> 
> I'm in love!
> 
> ...


 

 They really are great, when I got mine and put it on, I immediately knew it was a league above my MA900.


----------



## AxelCloris

If I can re-terminate the connection in the cup I may try the K612 down the road. My funds are tied up right now elsewhere, some of those being the Alpha Dogs and all the Light Harmonic products I've backed.


----------



## NamelessPFG

All this Fidelio X1 hype makes me wish I could've tried one for just $150, just to find out if the hype is justified or not. That won't be happening again.

Then again, seeing that eBay $350 Buy-It-Now listing years ago doesn't make the ESP/950 a $350 headphone, seeing the $110 B/S/T classified doesn't make the MA900 a $110 headphone, and seeing it sold for $220-250 frequently doesn't mean a good condition SR-Lambda is only worth that much in terms of audio quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is probably not your cup of tea though, Nameless. I'd say it's a contrast compared to what you like. A bit muffled sounding in the general scheme of things compared to the more recent things I believe you have tried. The X1 isn't muffled overall, but the slight bass bloat makes it less clear than what I've compared lately.


----------



## rudyae86

Aww man MLE, I just bought the Recon3D yesterday and you just said about the brand new 2011 Mix Amp...for 55 bucks  ...oh well


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Got the A30s in...
> 
> I guess they'll do for gaming when I need chat, but the initial impression with music is... meh.
> 
> ...


How would you compare the a30 with the a40 and a50?


----------



## 1llest

change is good said:


> Sorry to _change_ the subject... but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 $165 from where?? Amazon has it for 198.
  
 Edit: Just read it! replied too quick


----------



## Change is Good

razordogaudio.com using coupon *K612PRO*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Call me when its 100.


----------



## Change is Good

Call me when the MA900 is...


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Call me when the MA900 is...




I imagine the X1, MA900 and K612 are generally the top 3 open headphones around $200 - $300... Or is there something else around that price to wet my appetite in while waiting for the new Hifimans?


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> I imagine the X1, MA900 and K612 are generally the top 3 open headphones around $200 - $300... Or is there something else around that price to wet my appetite in while waiting for the new Hifimans?




I've read great things about the SoundMagic HP200 for $250... but never came around to buying them. Its open, but the pads are pleather. Some Shure pads should fit, but I'm scared to a blind risk. Who knows if it would have a positive effect on the sound or not...

I've read its bass is slightly above neutral, so velours might even it some... and add soundstage depth.

I was tempted, but chose the K612 when I was emailed that coupon.


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> I've read great things about the SoundMagic HP200 for $250... but never came around to buying them. Its open, but the pads are pleather. Some Shure pads should fit, but I'm scared to a blind risk. Who knows if it would have a positive effect on the sound or not...
> 
> I've read its bass is slightly above neutral, so velours might even it some... and add soundstage depth.
> 
> I was tempted, but chose the K612 when I was emailed that coupon.


 

 I know it's probably a bit too early to ask, but how do you think they compare sonically to the K712?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> I've read great things about the SoundMagic HP200 for $250... but never came around to buying them. Its open, but the pads are pleather. Some Shure pads should fit, but I'm scared to a blind risk. Who knows if it would have a positive effect on the sound or not...
> 
> I've read its bass is slightly above neutral, so velours might even it some... and add soundstage depth.
> 
> I was tempted, but chose the K612 when I was emailed that coupon.




Thanks for the recommendation. 
I'll probably stick to the X1 for now then.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Just wanted to say that the Philips X1 + V-MODA BoomPro + 5.8 wireless mixamp = AMAZING! That is all.


----------



## retiredat21

daddydc650 said:


> Just wanted to say that the Philips X1 + V-MODA BoomPro + 5.8 wireless mixamp = AMAZING! That is all.


 
  
 you game on pc?


----------



## Brick3

mad lust envy said:


> BtW Mixamp pro 2011 BRAND NEW with all the cables for $55 shipped. GET AT ME BROS.


 
 Can you ship it to europe? I could buy it asap.


----------



## DADDYDC650

retiredat21 said:


>


 

 PC, PS4 and XB1.


----------



## retiredat21

daddydc650 said:


> PC, PS4 and XB1.


 
 so it sounds great on pc? that wireless mixamp  got me curious


----------



## DADDYDC650

retiredat21 said:


> so it sounds great on pc? that wireless mixamp  got me curious


 
 I haven't connected the mixamp to my PC. I have a Creative ZXR sound card so I use that for gaming.


----------



## DADDYDC650

New Sony wireless headset on the way for the PS4 and other devices. I think it looks cool.
 http://www.hardcoregamer.com/2014/01/23/various-retailers-list-mysterious-new-sony-headset/71199/


----------



## roguegeek

retiredat21 said:


> so it sounds great on pc? that wireless mixamp  got me curious


 
 There's almost no point in using the mixamps on a PC. Get yourself a good audio card like an X-Fi Titanium HD or Xonar, get CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone set up properly, and you're solid.


----------



## Thewreck13

After reading this guide and The Nameless PC Gaming Audio guide I have come to the conclusion that I do really want to invest in a good gaming headphone and I at least have a decent clue where to start.  I have about $300 dollars to spend (350 max) and don't really want to go over.  I also don't have a sound card and I don't have room for one either (PCI-E slot blocked by 2nd GPU).  I was at first leaning towards external sound cards like Asus Xonar U7 but I think that I can do better for cheaper with a decent DAC/AMP like FiiO E10 and virtual surround sound software (i.e. Razer Synapse 2.0). Im a huge gamer and split time better FPS and MMOs.  Ive been stalking this website for about 3 weeks and see that the members are extremely knowledgeable and helpful. 
  
 [Edit]: From what I can discern I am leaning towards the AKG Q701 ($200) with a FiiO E10 or a Sennheiser PC 360 ($166) with an additional DAC/AMP.  Again, as much as I would love a sound card at this point, I don't have any room in the case.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp Pro 2011, put up on head-fi for $55 total. Looking for US buyers first, so hit me up if interested. never been used, just opened the box to take the A30s (a disappointment anyways).


----------



## chicolom

thewreck13 said:


> After reading this guide and The Nameless PC Gaming Audio guide I have come to the conclusion that I do really want to invest in a good gaming headphone and I at least have a decent clue where to start.  I have about $300 dollars to spend (350 max) and don't really want to go over.  I also don't have a sound card and I don't have room for one either (PCI-E slot blocked by 2nd GPU).  I was at first leaning towards external sound cards like Asus Xonar U7 but I think that I can do better for cheaper with a decent DAC/AMP like FiiO E10 and virtual surround sound software (i.e. Razer Synapse 2.0). Im a huge gamer and split time better FPS and MMOs.  Ive been stalking this website for about 3 weeks and see that the members are extremely knowledgeable and helpful.
> 
> [Edit]: From what I can discern I am leaning towards the AKG Q701 ($200) with a FiiO E10 or a Sennheiser PC 360 ($166) with an additional DAC/AMP.  Again, as much as I would love a sound card at this point, I don't have any room in the case.


 
  
 You could get a Sound Blaster Omni or a Xonar U3.
  
 I wouldn't get the E10 _for gaming_, as it has to be the first device in the chain (no line-in).  I would rather spend that money on an amp with a line-in, in case you ever get an external surround sound device in the future.  I haven't used Razer's surround (Razer Synapse is something else BTW), so I can't comment on it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is probably not your cup of tea though, Nameless. I'd say it's a contrast compared to what you like. A bit muffled sounding in the general scheme of things compared to the more recent things I believe you have tried. The X1 isn't muffled overall, but the slight bass bloat makes it less clear than what I've compared lately.


 
  
 I'm starting to think that two things are frequently at play here:
  
 -Flavor Of The Month. (This does NOT necessarily mean a bad headphone, but FOTM sets tend to have overblown hype.)
  
 -My tastes are simply not in line with most people's tastes here. Seems like most people like a V-shaped signature while I prefer a slight arch in the mids. (On top of that, I saw someone call the MA900 "too bright" recently, while I just don't find it bright and sparkly enough...)
  
 Well, maybe three if I've been forever spoiled by vintage Stax. All in all, just trying to figure out where I stand relative to everyone else here, and that takes an audition. I mean, I STILL haven't heard a single AKG or Sennheiser set, and my Beyerdynamic experience is limited to that MMX 300. It's still kind of weird to realize that I have a tad more familiarity with Stax compared to anything else.


----------



## gamefreak054

namelesspfg said:


> I'm starting to think that two things are frequently at play here:
> 
> -Flavor Of The Month. (This does NOT necessarily mean a bad headphone, but FOTM sets tend to have overblown hype.)
> 
> ...


 
 I think the it depends on which price bracket your in. I generally like a flat sound signature, but my tastes actually change depending on the price bracket as I think the cheaper price brackets just can not do details well enough. I prefer the V Shaped signature at the cheaper brackets as they might as well be fun if they are not going to do details well.
  
 I also think it can rely heavily on your gear. I picked up the V Moda M80s for $45 and hated it on most of my daps. The bass was just too overpowering for nearly everything, but I hooked it up to my DX100 and it made it perform in the $150-$200 bracket easily imo. The bass was cleaned up, it had very minimal sibilance, and the details were decent.


----------



## Thewreck13

chicolom said:


> You could get a Sound Blaster Omni or a Xonar U3.
> 
> I wouldn't get the E10 _for gaming_, as it has to be the first device in the chain (no line-in).  I would rather spend that money on an amp with a line-in, in case you ever get an external surround sound device in the future.  I haven't used Razer's surround (Razer Synapse is something else BTW), so I can't comment on it.


 

 I guess I dont under stand the difference between a "gaming" external sound card and an DAC/AMP.  I thought a the external sound card was a DAC/AMP and software for surround sound.  I had looked into a Sound Blaster Omni before but was unsure of its quality to drive something like a AKG Q701.  Also, for reviews that I have seen before, my Desktop motherboard had better sound than the Xonar U3, which is meant for notebooks.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp Pro 2011, put up on head-fi for $55 total. Looking for US buyers first, so hit me up if interested. never been used, just opened the box to take the A30s (a disappointment anyways).


 
 I asked you about the a30's a few pages back. Finally got your thoughts on them. Surprised you don't like them at all. I think they are nice little headphones for the price. GL on selling that mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be fair, its really reliant on ear placement and clamp. It sounds too thin and the bass is resonant like woah. Just... its quite unrefined. Considering I basically got it for free after I sold my Mixamps, it will do. The Slyr is MUUUUCH better.


----------



## Drastion

Was hoping I could get an answer on this one.

If you remote play your ps4 on a vita. Can you still output the sound from the ps4. Like if I hook up a mixamp 5.8 to my ps4 and remote play. Will I still be able to get dolby headphone going.

Got some gift cards and am thinking about picking up a vita.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> To be fair, its really reliant on ear placement and clamp. It sounds too thin and the bass is resonant like woah. Just... its quite unrefined. Considering I basically got it for free after I sold my Mixamps, it will do. The Slyr is MUUUUCH better.


 

 Thanks for your expanded thoughts. I pretty much agree with you for the most part. I think they sound good at best considering the price I paid. They do the job when gaming and for the folks that aren't as critical as you are, they should be happy with them as long as they don't overpay.
  
 In regards to the X1, hopefully someone on here that aren't happy with them and purchased them at the discounted price can sell their X1's to you for around $150. I've seen 1 person in the X1 thread talk about possible returning his. It's criminal that you of all people missed out. I think you would be in heaven with the X1 + BoomPro + 5.8 mixamp.


----------



## DADDYDC650

drastion said:


> Was hoping I could get an answer on this one.
> 
> If you remote play your ps4 on a vita. Can you still output the sound from the ps4. Like if I hook up a mixamp 5.8 to my ps4 and remote play. Will I still be able to get dolby headphone going.
> 
> Got some gift cards and am thinking about picking up a vita.


 
 I believe so since the PS4 still outputs the video to your HDTV. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't output the audio as well.


----------



## chicolom

thewreck13 said:


> I guess I dont under stand the difference between a "gaming" external sound card and an DAC/AMP.  I thought a the external sound card was a DAC/AMP and software for surround sound.  I had looked into a Sound Blaster Omni before but was unsure of its quality to drive something like a AKG Q701.  Also, for reviews that I have seen before, my Desktop motherboard had better sound than the Xonar U3, which is meant for notebooks.


 
  
  
 The difference is a "gaming" soundcard comes with licensed surround sound DSPs, whereas your typical external DAC/AMP has no processing whatsoever and strictly converts the digital signal (in plain stereo) and amplifies it. 
  
 AFAIK there is only one free surround DSP software, which is the Razer one.  The rest are all tied to soundcard hardware (both internal and external like the SB Omni and U3).  FWIR Razer's free surround DSP isn't quite on par with the DSPs like SBX Pro, CMSS 3D, Dolby Headphone, etc.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400


----------



## GorillaSceptre

chicolom said:


> The difference is a "gaming" soundcard comes with licensed surround sound DSPs, whereas your typical external DAC/AMP has no processing whatsoever and strictly converts the digital signal (in plain stereo) and amplifies it.
> 
> AFAIK there is only one free surround DSP software, which is the Razer one.  The rest are all tied to soundcard hardware (both internal and external like the SB Omni and U3).  *FWIR Razer's free surround DSP isn't quite on par with the DSPs like SBX Pro, CMSS 3D, Dolby Headphone, etc*.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal#post_9067400


 
 I'd disagree with you there, I've used both quite a bit the last week and i can hear things with Razer that i cant with Dolby.
*But..* for movies i would still use Dolby as it doesn't sound as processed.
  
 Just my opinion


----------



## chicolom

gorillasceptre said:


> I'd disagree with you there, I've used both quite a bit the last week and i can hear things with Razer that i cant with Dolby.
> *But..* for movies i would still use Dolby as it doesn't sound as processed.
> 
> Just my opinion


 
  
 You'd disagree with _FWIR_?


----------



## GorillaSceptre

chicolom said:


> You'd disagree with _FWIR_?



lol


----------



## BoboBrazil

Is the mixamp powerful enough to power the K702 65th anniversary edition? I'm trying to get a headset to use with PS4. If there is a better amp that works with PS4 please let me know! Also, is there an option that does dts? I use a wdtv also and all of my movies have dts tracks.


----------



## benbenkr

drastion said:


> Was hoping I could get an answer on this one.
> 
> If you remote play your ps4 on a vita. Can you still output the sound from the ps4. Like if I hook up a mixamp 5.8 to my ps4 and remote play. Will I still be able to get dolby headphone going.
> 
> Got some gift cards and am thinking about picking up a vita.


 
  
 It works... except, it's useless.
  
 The issue is that there is a very discernible audio lag when the PS4 sends the Vita a  Dolby Digital (more specifically, DH). This is why the PS4 attemps to always just send a pure 2.0 PCM audio to the Vita.
 Then the other issue is that Remote Play isn't 1:1 between the Vita and PS4 like the Wii U (heh I know). Lots of instance where dropouts in audio occurs, which basically makes DH useless.


----------



## 20draws10

I've been in the market for a good, well perfect, audio setup for competitive (PC)  gaming for about a month now and I have yet to make a decision and was hoping I would be able to get a little advice here. I've basically decided that I'm going to be buying a pair of headphones specifically for competitive gaming and nothing else.
 I was initially looking at the Alpha Dog's because they were closed and the isolation would be nice as my roommate often listens to podcasts through his speakers. I don't really do much LAN gaming and when I go to competitions I would definitely be needing a closed set (Ill probably get the alpha dogs for pleasure/travel/comps). The more I read though the more I have been leaning towards an open set, for obvious reasons. Specifically the K702 Annies or the K701. I was also thinking of the ATH-AD700X, but the headband design has really turned me off them. I'm looking to buy in the next week, my current set, sony xb700 is just getting depressing to listen to and the left channel died in them the other day (thanks to my bird, oh darn!  ). So now I really have good motivation to take that plunge into the audiophile world! Thanks in advance for any advice you are able to offer!


----------



## DADDYDC650

I would like to thank MLE for the amazing headphone gaming guide he created. Without his guide, I'd be lost. Thanks to him I ended up with the X1 paired with the 5.8 mixamp. This setup completely r@pes any headset I would have purchased otherwise. Thanks MLE and keep up the amazing work!


----------



## NiteWalker

Amazing job on the article Envy.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I knew nothing about the mix amp pro before reading through it.
  
 Now on to my setup and questions! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I game mainly on the ps3 and ps4. My headphone setup is the V-Moda Crossfade LP2 (saving for the M100's) with the boompro mic.
  
 Now, for best sound quality, and still having mic capabilities, I assume I'd use one of the amps mentioned (likely the mix amp pro), hooked up to either in the way outlined in astro's instructions?
 Now, is there any possible way to connect the ps3 and ps4 both to the mix amp pro while retaining functionality? I'd rather not have to constantly swap cables, but I'd also rather not have to buy two mix amp pros...
  
 I currently have my whole setup hooked up through my receiver and home theater system, so when I'm not using the mix amp setup, I just change the sound output back to hdmi in the ps3/4 menus to output through the receiver, correct?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Drastion

benbenkr said:


> It works... except, it's useless.
> 
> The issue is that there is a very discernible audio lag when the PS4 sends the Vita a  Dolby Digital (more specifically, DH). This is why the PS4 attemps to always just send a pure 2.0 PCM audio to the Vita.
> Then the other issue is that Remote Play isn't 1:1 between the Vita and PS4 like the Wii U (heh I know). Lots of instance where dropouts in audio occurs, which basically makes DH useless.




Thanks for the info. I didn't even think about the separation of sound and video. Been wanting a vita since long before launch. Too bad it looks like I was rightback then about it being doa.



nitewalker said:


> Amazing job on the article Envy.
> I knew nothing about the mix amp pro before reading through it.
> 
> Now on to my setup and questions! :tongue_smile:
> ...




You would need to get a powered switcher. Far as I know all the toggle switchers he has tried failed.


I don't own this one but it is the one recommended to me.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003C15798/ref=aw_ls__1?colid=2A1RDJDXR4V3Z&coliid=I2X45UE2NK87UW


----------



## NiteWalker

drastion said:


> You would need to get a powered switcher. Far as I know all the toggle switchers he has tried failed.
> 
> I don't own this one but it is the one recommended to me.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003C15798/ref=aw_ls__1?colid=2A1RDJDXR4V3Z&coliid=I2X45UE2NK87UW


 
I figured out I'd need a powered switcher from doing a web search.
I came across that one, but this one seems to fit my needs perfectly. It's not too expensive, and as a bonus, it's actually listed in my harmony remote software, so I can set the remote to turn it to the correct input when starting up the play ps3/4 activities.
  
 Wait a minute...
 My TV has an optical out; so I can just connect the astro mixamp to that rather than use a switcher. Then everything comes through the astro along with the receiver, and I can just mute the receiver late at nite when playing or watching tv or movies.
This video confirms it (though he uses a mixamp 5.8 the same thing applies).
 So that takes care of the optical problem... I think...
  
 Now one more hurdle remains.
 If I understand correctly, chat goes through the usb cable. So I'd either need to switch the usb cable depending on which system I'm playing, or maybe a double ended usb cable would work to connect to both?


----------



## Drastion

Most tvs downgrade the input signal to stereo. So you would have to check to make sure it outputs 5.1 through the optical out.


----------



## NiteWalker

I just checked my tv's audio setup and the optical output can be either dolby digital or pcm, so I'm good there.
  
 Never mind; I think I'll be using the switcher. From what I read online, most tvs won't pass dolby digital over hdmi because of copyright rules. I'll have to test it out on mine. But realistically, I'll probably be better off going direct from the systems anyway.


----------



## Drastion

Went looking around for a switcher. There are not that many options with a reasonable price tag. Here is the only other one I have found so far. Comes with a remote also and a good price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270488


----------



## NiteWalker

Nice!
 With shipping factored in, it's about the same price as the other one I linked to and it has an extra port.
 That one's listed in my harmony software too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

God, these A30s are so garbage... I'm wondering if mine is faulty.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> God, these A30s are so garbage... I'm wondering if mine is faulty.


I think so. Unless your ears are incredibly sensitive. I noticed that if if plug my a30s all the way into my ZXR's control pod that the sound comes out distorted so I make sure to plug it in almost all the way. I haven't tried my new a30's that came with my 5.8 mixamp so I can't comment on that pair.


----------



## ClarinetsRock

What do you guys think of the new Sennheiser G4ME series? As in the G4ME One and the Zero.
  
 What are the differences between them?
  
 Also I have heard that the PC 360 is the same as the G4ME One.
  
 What do you think of the Steelseries Siberia Elite as well? In comparison to Sennheiser?
  
 I am trying to find a really nice headset which I can use for gaming as well as music listening and editing music. 
  
 I currently own a Sennheiser PC 141 and am looking at upgrading to a better headset. 
  
 Thank you for your help!


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, after all the level of clarity headphones you've reviewed as of late... I'm pretty positive nothing is defective on the a30. You are, more than likely, correct with your impression.


----------



## TheReal14O

With the Turtle Beach DSS what do I set the audio settings on the PS4 to? Linear PCM, Bitstream (Dolby) or Bitstream (DTS)? Thanks for the help.
  
 EDIT: According to MLE from some posts back
 Primary Output Port : DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
 Audio format (Priority): Bitstream (Dolby)


----------



## ClarinetsRock

What do you guys think of the new Sennheiser G4ME series? As in the G4ME One and the Zero.
  
 What are the differences between them?
  
 Also I have heard that the PC 360 is the same as the G4ME One.
  
 What do you think of the Steelseries Siberia Elite as well? In comparison to Sennheiser?
  
 I am trying to find a really nice headset which I can use for gaming as well as music listening and editing music. 
  
 I currently own a Sennheiser PC 141 and am looking at upgrading to a better headset. 
  
 Thank you for your help!


----------



## kraken2109

thereal14o said:


> With the Turtle Beach DSS what do I set the audio settings on the PS4 to? Linear PCM, Bitstream (Dolby) or Bitstream (DTS)? Thanks for the help.


 

 Linear PCM probably


----------



## conquerator2

> With the Turtle Beach DSS what do I set the audio settings on the PS4 to? Linear PCM, Bitstream (Dolby) or Bitstream (DTS)? Thanks for the help.


 
 Pretty sure it's bitstream DTS or Dolby :]
 That's basically what you use on the PS3.


----------



## kraken2109

conquerator2 said:


> Pretty sure it's bitstream DTS or Dolby :]
> That's basically what you use on the PS3.


 
 It's not going to make a difference. All that setting does is determine if the codec is uncompressed by the PS3 or the next device down the line.


----------



## Cruhx

Could I use the Schiit Magni and Modi with the Q701s and still get positional audio? I read somewhere that I couldn't. What does the Modi do exactly?


----------



## roguegeek

cruhx said:


> Could I use the Schiit Magni and Modi with the Q701s and still get positional audio? I read somewhere that I couldn't. What does the Modi do exactly?


 
 I'm guessing you're talking about this in terms of gaming and a PC. You need an amp for the Q701. The Magni is a decent pairing. If you use a DAC like the Modi, it will take the place of a proper sound card and you will be confined to its capabilities which don't include some sort of 3D processing.


----------



## Cruhx

Thank you for your answer. Yes i am using a PC and am referring to gaming. I have a few more questions that I need clearing up, sorry if they're kind of random.

Are there any DACs that provide 3D processing as well as a soundcard could?

If I were to use a lower impedance headphone, (32 ohms) what type of audio setup would be best in providing both positional audio for competitive gaming as well as good sound for music?


----------



## roguegeek

cruhx said:


> Thank you for your answer. Yes i am using a PC and am referring to gaming. I have a few more questions that I need clearing up, sorry if they're kind of random.
> 
> Are there any DACs that provide 3D processing as well as a soundcard could?
> 
> If I were to use a lower impedance headphone, (32 ohms) what type of audio setup would be best in providing both positional audio for competitive gaming as well as good sound for music?


 
  
 Check out the thread that is specific to your topic. You'll get better answers there.
  
*The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio*


----------



## benbenkr

clarinetsrock said:


> What do you guys think of the new Sennheiser G4ME series? As in the G4ME One and the Zero.
> 
> What are the differences between them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 G4ME Zero = A rebadged and repainted PC350 with better pleather earpads
 G4ME One = A repainted HD558 with a mic
  
 You can get the HD558 for $130, and spend the extra $120 you'd save on a better mic, a Xonar U3/Creative Omni and you'd still have some spare cash left.
  
 As for the Siberia Elite, never heard of it  and probably never will. I mean, $200? Keep dreaming SteelSeries. The Fidelio X1 was just $150 a few days ago. Drop the Elite to $100 and we can talk.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well here guys. My secret review. I need to re-tweak the layout just a smidge, but it's pretty much complete.

The review has been sitting in my laptop for a few months it seems, but I finally got the okay to post it by Jude. All in all, thoroughly impressed by the sound quality. 





*Monster DNA Pro*



*monsterproducts.com*

MSRP $299.95

*Where To Buy*: Best Buy Exclusive ($279.99)



Spoiler: Review



I'd like to thank Monster for giving me the opportunity to test and review the Monster DNA Pro. Unless you've been living under a rock, Monster should be one of the most recognizable names in the headphone industry, if not THE most well known. I won't bore you with their history, since they should be a common household name by now. Monster can take a humongous chunk of credit as to why there has been a huge interest in the headphone market the past few years. Over the past few years (now completely separated from the Beats name), Monster has garnered a lot of positive attention from audiophiles with their release of the Turbines and Miles Davis Trumpet IEMs. Having proven their worth amongst audiophiles for their IEMs, they then made a move towards the portable/full-size market with their release of the DNA On Ear headphones, and now the DNA Pro Over Ear. 

Having only previously owned the Monster Turbines IEM in their headphone line, I wasn't sure what to expect out of the DNA Pro. The Turbines, while definitely great sounding, were a bit too big for my ears, so I didn't keep them long enough due to personal issues with comfort (though to be quite honest, I find almost every IEM uncomfortable). How did the Monster DNA Pro fare with me? It surely had an uphill battle as a closed AND faux-leather padded headphone, but it wouldn't be the first time I've given a chance to headphones of that particular ilk. Personal bias towards open-backed/cloth padded headphones aside, I feel any and every headphone deserves a chance to prove themselves, regardless of make and model.

On to the DNA Pro...



*Build Quality*:

6.75/10

I received the matte-black DNA Pro, which I personally found aesthetically pleasing if a bit contemporary, urban/street styled. I generally prefer a classy approach, but for the general consumer, I feel they used the right amount of styling. Not so sure on the other colors, which are a bit too loud for my taste. I'm very thankful to have received the most 'normal' of all DNA color schemes. The DNA Pros are built mostly of plastic, save for some visible metal areas on the hinges. The plastic feels somewhat durable, though I feel that the exterior plastic piece with the 'DNA' label may be a weak point if some accidental stress is put on the size adjustment mechanism. It may potentially cause the that piece to separate from the inner piece with the L/R markings. Under normal use, I don't see this being an issue, but freak accidents aren't impossible. I have spotted some DNA Pros at my local Best Buy stores, and almost every single one (yes, all of them) had broken pieces on or near the DNA labelling. I have a feeling people are much too abusive with demo units, and I don't expect this to be a normal occurrence. Still, some careful handling should apply.

The headband isn't generously or even moderately padded, instead using what seems to be a sweat-resistant rubbery material. If anything can be said of the padding, is that it should be very easy to keep clean. The adjustment mechanism doesn't have any markings/notches, yet feels very secure, so there shouldn't be any worries with the DNA Pros losing your preferred size/extension (which I believe for many people is going to always be fully extended). They also collapse inwards to allow for a smaller footprint/easier storing/portability with it's included travel bag.

The outer cup sports a mirror-esque triangular shape with the DNA logo embossed in the middle. The reflective 'triangle' is the only area on the headphone prone to fingerprint smudges. Thankfully, the rest is matte black and resistant to fingerprints. Moving on to the portion housing the drivers, it swivels/rotates just enough to to cater to different head shapes, but doesn't have a large amount of freedom in any direction.

The ear pads are of synthetic leather. They are soft, and airy (to the point that you can hear the air move if you compress the pads). The pads are dense enough to retain just enough of it's shape without flattening out and crushing your ears against the drivers. The DNA Pro is marketed as over ear/circumaural, though on the smaller side, and may potentially cause the DNA Pro to fit as a supra-aural headphone. For my medium-sized ears, it fits just over my ears with some work. Not impossible to fit over ear unlike the Sennheiser Momentum (which I argue has a circumaural fit for people with freakishly small ears...or Hobbits). From what I can tell, they don't seem to be user replaceable.

Both cups house 3.5mm inputs for personal preference as to whichever side you'd like to use the audio cable on. The exposed side can be used to share the source signal (MusicShare™), whether it's with other headphones (which is great for A/B testing, assuming the headphone connected has a similar decibel level), or even something like speakers if you'd like. I'm generally used to headphone's cables being attached to the left ear cup (typical of single ended headphones), but you can be rebel against the norm and use the right side. Removable cables are always a plus, especially using the standard 3.5mm input, as it allows the user to use whichever standard audio cable they'd like.

That being said, I find the tangle-resistant coil cable supplied to be fantastic. It's around 6 feet, with the cable being straight up until the coiled end which can be stretched to add around 2 extra feet or so (by my guesstimation). The cable feels durable, with a nice amount of thickness, and without the horribly grippy texture found on other cables that love to snag on everything. Easily one of my favorite stock cables out of all the headphones I've reviewed/tested. It terminates into a standard 3.5mm plug with a thin barrel, which is appreciated as it should put less stress on 3.5mm jacks. I measured the cable's resistance at around 0.7ohm, so there really isn't any reason to replace it based on resistance alone.



*Accessories*:

9/10

The Monster DNA Pro comes with:

- 3.5mm to 3.5mm tangle-resistant coil cable

- ControlTalk® cable for Apple devices (one wasn't included in this review sample)

- Travel pouch (very high quality)

- Monster Clean Cloth

- 6.3mm snap-on adapter



*Comfort*:

6.75/10

This is one aspect of the DNA Pro I wish I could be happy with. My problem being that it simply doesn't extend far enough on my head. The DNA Pro has to be fully extended to reach my ears in the proper position, and at that point, the headband is pushing down against my skull, enough to leave a dent on my head after a brief session with it on. The headband has a lot of wasted horizontal space that I could use to allow the cups to reach lower (without needed as much extension), but due to their plastic design, I wouldn't be able to bend it in a more cone shape, as it wouldn't retain the shape. If Monster had allowed for around an inch more extension in the arms or had a more arch on the headband, a lot more people would be covered. As it stands... it fits me, though not ideal by any means. 

Lack of headband extension aside, the DNA Pro is a bit clampy, which I assume was a choice to allow for a strong seal and secure fit at all times. The DNA Pro is not a headphone that 'disappears' on your head. The ear pads are relatively comfortable, with a few caveats. While they are soft, they do cling to the skin and isolate a bit too well. It traps heat, and the addition of clamp doesn't exactly help matters. If the DNA Pro didn't clamp as tightly, I could see the pads being one of the most comfortable synthetic-leather pads I've ever tested. They aren't removable from what I've personally seen, so no easy way to clean the pads or replace.

The DNA Pro is relatively light weight, and the cup's dimensions allow it to be used comfortably while laying down. Assuming it doesn't clamp so tightly on your head, it'd make a good 'laying down' headphone.



*Design Issues*: 

The only real issues I have with the DNA Pro is:

- Could use more extension for bigger heads

- Ear pad diameter could stand to be wider/taller for those with bigger ears. They are also not easily removable.

- More arch on the headband as there is a lot of waste headband real estate



*Isolation/Leakage*:

9/10

This is one of the areas the DNA Pro absolutely excels in. It is among the very best passive noise cancelling headphones I have personally heard, if not THE best. Once the music plays, you'll be hard pressed to hear most external noises. It also keeps sound in even at high volume levels. I don't see how anyone would complain about isolation with the DNA Pro.



*Sound*:

8/10

The first thing I test with headphones is music, and from the moment I put on the DNA Pro, it was an instant success. People may be adversed to 'popular/mainstream' headphones, but I will say here and now, that selling the DNA Pro short, is a complete and utter mistake. It is a FANTASTIC sounding headphone, so much I'd say it's probably my favorite voicing of any headphone I've heard for my preference in music. Yes, it even outdoes my previous fave: the Philips Fidelio X1's tonal balance. I haven't had a chance to listen to the Philips Fidelio X1 in a while, but the DNA Pro reminded me a lot the X1 in a closed version it's sound They are both energetic and fun, yet in the realm of being well balanced. The one thing I do remember well is the X1's bass, being impressive for an open-backed design, yet being a bit too bloated at times. I'm personally a bit sensitive to mid bass bloat, and get fatigued by an abundance of it, even by headphones with moderate mid bass. The DNA Pro maintains a somewhat lively bass response, with excellent control that doesn't blanket the midrange, nor causes any discomfort.


*Bass*

8/10

As previously mentioned, The DNA Pro's bass is lively, as well as tactile, yet well controlled. It's not the the final word on speed and attack, instead choosing a happy medium between well-rounded fullness, and restraint. It's in the realm of balanced and moderately emphasized. The bass seems reliant on how well the DNA Pro seals on your ears. I have heard complaints that it rolls off a bit. I believe that is more of a fit issue, and not actual frequency response. To my ears, the DNA Pro's bass extends quite low, and I've never felt it lacking by any stretch of the word. It's surprising to me, as the DNA Pro doesn't exactly fit my head perfectly, yet I have zero issues with getting a good seal on the pads. As mentioned before, the pads aren't exactly the widest, and I could see an issue arising for those with larger ears, which may be breaking the seal enough to lose some bass.



*Mids*:

7.75/10

The DNA Pro's mids are well defined, tight, and lean. Lean as in it doesn't take up as much headspace as some other headphones with a thicker sound (i.e. MA900, HD650, LCD2). It isn't the most impressive in terms of vocal warmth and intimacy, instead choosing to define them cleanly rather than making them forward. The mids slightly give way to more clarity in the upper ranges and fullness down in the bass. The mids however, are not blanketed by either bass or treble. They're nicely integrated, just not the main focus. I feel female vocals are a bit more impressive than male vocals on the DNA Pro. Female vocals tend to be a problem area on a LOT of headphones, so this is surprising and welcome.



*Treble*:

8/10

It's been a while seems I've heard a headphone with some good sparkle and energy up top, and the DNA Pro has left me feeling quite impressed in this regard. Having been used to headphones that generally slope downwards and iron out the rough edges of an energetic upper range, I wasn't quite prepared to go back to a headphone with a tilt upwards in treble. I was expecting some ear fatigue caused by treble emphasis. The DNA Pro managed mostly quell my fears, with a clean treble presence that I have been missing of late. There is some grain up top, but I felt that it wasn't as prevalent as some other treble tilted headphones. The DNA Pro's treble is possibly one of the best examples I've heard to date. The few times I felt the DNA Pro to be harsh was few and far between, which is more than I can say for many headphones with treble this well extended.



*Soundstage*:

8.5/10 (Stereo)
7/10 (Virtual surround)

Here is where I was expecting the DNA Pro to suffer. Badly in fact. Headphones that seal this well, and clamp tightly don't tend to leave me impressed. Yet, again, the DNA Pro threw out a REALLY nice soundstage for a closed headphone. I mainly test soundstage in gaming, lately in both stereo and in virtual surround. As I played some games on my PSVita, I was incredibly impressed by how spacious the DNA Pro's sound appeared to be. Aided by the lean and tight spatial cues, there was a nice amount of air in between audio cues. The stereo separation can be summed up with one word: Stellar.

The soundstage was less impressive in Dolby Headphone virtual surround gaming, in part due to the added warmth Dolby headphone tends to impart on headphones. Closed headphones tend to suffer due to this warmth, and the DNA Pro is no exception. That being said, I was getting some inconsistency when it came to gauging the soundstage on the DNA pros. In some instances, the DNA Pro had open-like soundstage, yet in others, it sounded boxed in and unimpressive. Due to this, I'll say the DNA pro's soundstage is good overall, and even great at times, especially in stereo.



*Positioning*:

7.5/10

As usual, soundstage and positional cues tend to go hand in hand, and while I felt the soundstage can be inconsistent at times in virtual surround, the positional cues were not. They were always quite precise to my ears, and clearly defined. Better defined than even the Sony MA-900 in direct comparison, which sounded hazy in comparison. The inconsistent soundstage would at times, box in the positional cues, making rear cues to sound less convincing. 



*Clarity*:

7.75/10

It has been awhile since I've heard a closed headphone sound this clean and energetic. It was definitely a surprise to my ears. As mentioned before, the bass isn't the fastest or tightest, though it stills hold great control of itself. The mids are clean, lean, focused and sharp. The treble holds plenty of air without becoming too edgy or grating. This all adds up to a fun, yet clean sounding headphone.



*Amping*:

Not necessary.

I find the DNA Pro to be quite sensitive, and unless you like a particular flavor an amp adds, I don't see it really needing one. The DNA Pro sounds magnificent with minimal amping, everything else being icing on a pretty delicious cake.



*Personal Recommendation?*: 

Movies, Music, In General ? Yes
Gaming? Maybe

I find it to be the best alternative I've personally heard to the Mad Dog for those looking for another well isolating/closed headphone with a bit more fun/energy. At around $280, if you want a well isolating headphone that controls noise like a world champion, easy to drive, portable, and stylish, the DNA Pro is an attractive option. If you happen to own the X1 and want something similar in closed form, the DNA Pro is quite close, from what I personally hear. I'm a bit adamant to recommend it as a GAMING headphone, however due to inconsistent soundstage which may make the DNA pro lag behind the better competitive gaming headphones.



*Comparisons*:

Since I don't have any closed headphones with me to directly compare at the time of this review, I can only say that the DNA Pro's strengths remind me a lot of the Philips Fidelio X1's strengths, aside from the obvious closed/open differences. Both are lively on the bottom and top, with everything in between being well behaved. The X1 has a better lower midrange, while the DNA Pro has a better upper midrange. The DNA Pro has more definite control in the bass, where the X1 can come off a bit bloated at times. The X1 is obviously the more open sounding, with definite superiority in soundstage, though for a closed headphone, the DNA Pro can put out some convincingly spacious and clear audio cues. Pretty convinced that those with X1's looking for a closed headphone would enjoy the DNA Pros.

Comparing it directly with one of my absolute personal faves, the Sony MA-900, the DNA Pro bested the Sony in terms of clarity and definition overall. Whereas the MA-900 sounded a bit diffused and slightly hazy, the DNA Pro showcased some very impressive definition of audio cues. Sound effects were sharp and precise, at the expensive of some weight/body. The higher ranges sounded a bit soft and laid back on the MA900 (which I'm personally fine with), while the DNA Pro brought out a sparkle noticeably lacking on the MA-900. The extension on the bottom and top are superior on DNA Pro in every single way. The soundstage, imaging, midrange and warmth are the MA-900's forte, which wasn't quite up to par on the DNA Pro.



*Final Impressions:*

I'm heavily leaning towards really loving the DNA Pro. They sound absolutely fantastic, with one of my absolute favorite sound signatures, tonal balance, and audio fidelity. In terms of a closed-back headphone, there truly isn't much more I can ask for that the DNA Pro doesn't happily provide. It's got great sound quality, amazing noise isolation, and demands very little power to sound fantastic.

My gripes with it are almost entirely on it's build quality, mainly how it ties directly to comfort (or lack thereof), due to strong clamp, lack of headband extension for bigger heads, synthetic-leather pads (which are admittedly comfortable for faux-leather, but still lacking in comfort in comparison to cloth/velour pads). These are personal gripes, and your mileage may vary. I expect those with smaller heads may find no real issue with the DNA Pro's comfort.



Final Scores...



Fun: 8.5/10 (Great. If you're in the market for closed headphones and want a fun tonality without sacrificing quality, I, in all honesty can't recommend anything else more than the DNA Pro. Yes, it's that impressive.)

Competitive: 7/10 (Good. Great at times, but decent in others, I'll average the competitive aspect to be good. The clarity of sound cues is stellar, though with the soundstage being a bit closed in at times, I can't say it'd be a replacement to the more competitive open-backed headphones, even if some of them may not match the DNA Pro in definition.) 

Comfort: 6.5/10 (Decent. Personally, I find them to be passable at best due to the tight fit that forces the headband against my skull, strong clamp, and faux-leather pads which trap heat. Those with smaller heads may have better luck in finding them more comfortable.)

Overall: 8/10 (Great. To say that the DNA Pro was a surprise is an understatement. The DNA Pro is a testament to Monster's constant evolution and growth. Had it been a bit more comfortable and durable, it would've easily been placed among my personal favorite headphones, period. While it may not particularly excel at gaming, it has everything else completely under it's control. If they manage to build upon the winner they have in the DNA Pro, I believe the Monster name will not only stay popular in the general consumer market, but in the audiophile market as well.)


----------



## conquerator2

No matter how good, I'll probably never buy any of their products ever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it was more comfy, I'd easily recommend it. Comfort may be a personal issue. The sound quality however is easily top tier for closed headphones, and my favorite sound signature out of all headphones reviewed, even over the X1.


----------



## AxelCloris

So would you say without an amp this is the go-to closed headphone for gaming and the Mad Dogs are the go-to when you have an amp in the $300 bracket?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. People will undoubtedly be impressed with the DNA pro. You can quote me on that.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

I have listened to the DNAs and I was impressed, although at that time I thought spending $200 on Headphones was dumb 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I wanted to let the guys know who asked me about the *SoundMAGIC HP100s* that I bought.  So far I probably have 10 hours on them and I am highly impressed using them with my Creative ZXR which is running the following opamps (ADA4627-1BRZs (2 -> 1), AD8597 (2), MUSES01).  The sound separation is the best I have ever heard in a pair of headphones and the bass is extremely tight and responsive.  The treble is never tiresome on your ears, it's somewhere between smooth and bright (perfect spot).  The mid-range is excellent when listening to things like Led Zeppelin or Gov't Mule. I don't notice any scoop in the sound signature, yet they are definitely fun headphones to listen to, not reference cans.  They are extremely comfortable and very light, probably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn and I am extremely sensitive to cans due to my TMJ issue with my jaw.  I absolutely love the headphones and the only thing I would change is the included detachable cable which is coiled and I wish they had included a home normal straight cable.  That is really my only complaint about them and as everyone knows they aren't the "coolest" looking cans out there, the sound clearly cancels out that though.  I look forward to hearing them after 100 hours of usage and once I get my Aune T1 (tube based amp/DAC).


----------



## roguegeek

You need permission to post a review?


----------



## kenshinhimura

roguegeek said:


> You need permission to post a review?


 

 if you buy your own you can do it whenever. if its sent by the company itself for review they have rules sometimes (usually before the public can buy it), and you have to wait until they approve it.


----------



## jude

roguegeek said:


> You need permission to post a review?


 
  
 It was part of a focus group. Originally, the headphones were supposed to go to the focus group well before the public release of the headphones, but it got held up a bit. As it turned out, though, by the time the participants in the focus group got the headphones (which I think some did before its public release), and then had the chance to listen to and evaluate them, the DNA Pro was on the shelves. Because the original focus group schedule was supposed to be earlier than it turned out in actuality, the participants were asked not to discuss the headphones prior to its release. I didn't communicate clearly to the participants that the headphone was indeed actually out by the time they'd had a chance to spend some real time with them, only because I wasn't 100% clear on what the actual embargo date was.
  
 Only when pre-release embargoes are involved is there any need to clear a review's posting date/time. Sorry for the confusion, Mad Lust Envy.


----------



## Change is Good

*never mind*


----------



## roguegeek

jude said:


> It was part of a focus group. Originally, the headphones were supposed to go to the focus group well before the public release of the headphones, but it got held up a bit. As it turned out, though, by the time the participants in the focus group got the headphones (which I think some did before its public release), and then had the chance to listen to and evaluate them, the DNA Pro was on the shelves. Because the original focus group schedule was supposed to be earlier than it turned out in actuality, the participants were asked not to discuss the headphones prior to its release. I didn't communicate clearly to the participants that the headphone was indeed actually out by the time they'd had a chance to spend some real time with them, only because I wasn't 100% clear on what the actual embargo date was.
> 
> Only when pre-release embargoes are involved is there any need to clear a review's posting date/time. Sorry for the confusion, Mad Lust Envy.


 
 Ahh. Embargo dates. That makes complete sense.


----------



## AxelCloris

Looks like I'll finally get to hear the E7. Picked up a used one on Amazon for $22.88 shipped. If nothing else it will replace my ELE-D02 at the office. But I may also use it for gaming until my Geek Pulse comes later this year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jude said:


> It was part of a focus group. Originally, the headphones were supposed to go to the focus group well before the public release of the headphones, but it got held up a bit. As it turned out, though, by the time the participants in the focus group got the headphones (which I think some did before its public release), and then had the chance to listen to and evaluate them, the DNA Pro was on the shelves. Because the original focus group schedule was supposed to be earlier than it turned out in actuality, the participants were asked not to discuss the headphones prior to its release. I didn't communicate clearly to the participants that the headphone was indeed actually out by the time they'd had a chance to spend some real time with them, only because I wasn't 100% clear on what the actual embargo date was.
> 
> Only when pre-release embargoes are involved is there any need to clear a review's posting date/time. Sorry for the confusion, Mad Lust Envy.




No prob, Jude. Even with that delay I still didn't manage to get around to editing the last bit of changes, lol.


----------



## CaptainRusko

Hey a few questions for you guys.
  
 On the review of the dt770 pro, you say it would be very good for gaming but the bass lets it down. If you are gaming on PC and have the luxury of EQ'ing the base to be very low, would they be worthy of top competitive gaming headphones?
  
 With that in mind, what would you consider best for gaming/music out of these two? I already have creative sound card for EQ
  
 A) DT 770 PRO 80 + Fiio E18
 B) ATH-M50 + ATH700x + Fiio E5


----------



## gamefreak054

Just got my TB DSS 1 in the mail today. I gotta say for what I have heard so far I am pleasantly surprised. I really did not have much hope for this little thing but it does work decently well. So far my only complaint is that when using them with my brothers modded grados sr60is the volume control sucks. Its gets loud pretty fast on the dial with these headphones.  It probably wont be an issue when connecting it to my Project Ember amp, and alpha dogs. Also there was quite a bit of sibilance in the girls voice from Battlefield 4, however the grados are a harsh headphone so it may not have been the DSS's fault.


----------



## jumper

After researching and mulling my options over I've currently settled on the Q701 for $200 (instead of some AD700 I was originally leaning towards). I want headphones with a strong emphasis in competitive FPS gameplay but I like how the Q701 are just a touch more fun than something like the old AD700's. Since I'm about ready to purchase is there anything else I should consider? Is there anything coming out soon that's worth waiting for? I can go up to around $250.


----------



## PurpleAngel

captainrusko said:


> Hey a few questions for you guys.
> 
> On the review of the dt770 pro, you say it would be very good for gaming but the bass lets it down. If you are gaming on PC and have the luxury of EQ'ing the base to be very low, would they be worthy of top competitive gaming headphones?
> 
> ...


 
 I would think the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones would be an improvement on the ATH-M50 and do decently well for surround sound gaming.


----------



## roguegeek

jumper said:


> After researching and mulling my options over I've currently settled on the Q701 for $200 (instead of some AD700 I was originally leaning towards). I want headphones with a strong emphasis in competitive FPS gameplay but I like how the Q701 are just a touch more fun than something like the old AD700's. Since I'm about ready to purchase is there anything else I should consider? Is there anything coming out soon that's worth waiting for? I can go up to around $250.



The Q701 is amazing form competitive gaming. Go ahead and make the purchase with confidence. Just make sure you power them accordingly.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey guys, I'm back! There have been like 25 new pages since last time (and, I see, a new MLE review! Nice one Mad, tho FYI being "adamant" about something is to stick to your guns about something... I'm often adamant, despite my name, lol).

Anything I miss, or need to respond to? Btw, the SB Z must be mailed back soon, so I'll be forced to set up the Omni. Lol. Work has finally begun slowing down.


----------



## Change is Good

I think someone asked about the M100 for gaimg a couple times. I tagged you to respond, but I see you were gone for a while lol.

Welcome back...


----------



## Evshrug

Ooh snap!
Well, if I put the K712 as a 10 for fav gaming headphone, I would put the Q701 at 9.5 (needs tube amp to create depth of image), MA900 at 8.5 for gaming (great imaging and surround, but were more dull for me), the AD700 at about 8 (lean bass and some treble grain but otherwise have a fair helping of surround special sauce for their price), the M100 is at 7 or 6.5 (surprising imaging for closed can, more interesting than MA900 tho not as natural imaging, bass-weighted sound, long-term comfort and bass-fatigue issues for me, but totally a serviceable closed can) about tied with the Koss KSC75 sound (different character tho), stereo gaming with my decent Sony desktop speakers at about a 3 (good and comfortable, but without surround is like playing with one arm tied behind my back, not as good separation between sounds as with headphones), and finally the speakers built-in to my Panasonic TV at about .5 or something (not fun, not competitive because it's basically mono sound, audio is more like an alert rather than a radar or alternate-environment).

That's just a relative order based just on what I'd like to use for gaming, without extensively breaking it all down. The M-100 wins a place in my collection as a good closed headphone, that's it's biggest stand-out in this line-up but it's sound is fundamentally good. 

My take may differ from Mad's... I agree with his AD700 Amazon review, but I'd wager that he'd place the M-100 above the AD700 and a bit below the ma900 based on enjoying gaming with the M-100. I'll have to send them to him sometime, but I don't want to make shipping a hardship


----------



## jumper

Evshrug, at $400 do you think the K712 is worth twice the price of the $200 Q701?


----------



## Evshrug

Eh, neoooooooooooh... It's gonna come down to personal taste, sonically they're close, but you may value the K712's differences more than the quantity of difference. The K712 is "there" for me, but the q701 is "very nearly there." 

I don't think the price difference is worth it, but on the other hand I often feel happy enough with the K712 sound even without a special amp and careful tube rolling: I've lately been using the K712 plugged straight into my DSS and SoundBlaster Z without double-amping, which is worth considering (it still scales up with equipment). I only jumped on the K712 because I got it on sale, but if money was tight I'd sell it and keep the Q701 (or give the K612 a try, I really want to). If you find the K712 on sale, it may be worth it long-term.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> I only jumped on the K712 because I got it on sale, but if money was tight I'd sell it and keep the Q701 (or give the K612 a try, I really want to). If you find the K712 on sale, it may be worth it long-term.


 
  
 I still don't understand why you still have BOTH the Q701 and K712.  It doesn't make sense to me to keep both of them around, when you can swap pads and get very nearly the same effect as owning both - but for much, much cheaper.
  
 If it were me, I would keep the K712, sell the Q701, then buy Q701 pads.


----------



## Evshrug

Because I'm bad about selling things, once I own them. Also stuff like wanting to try to hear the difference of a pad swap before I sell one, but by the time I get home from work I don't feel like mucking around and just want to jump straight into playing a game.

How's your PC build coming? And the FiiO device petition?


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> Because I'm bad about selling things, once I own them. Also stuff like wanting to try to hear the difference of a pad swap before I sell one, but by the time I get home from work I don't feel like mucking around and just want to jump straight into playing a game.
> 
> How's your PC build coming? And the FiiO device petition?


 
  
 Hmm.  OK then.
  
 FiiO has taken notice of the petition (Yay!) and hopefully once the clear their plate from their current work (working on some DAPs and updating some DACs) they will take a more serious look at it. 
  
  


Spoiler: And my build is complete! 






  
  
 It went together nicely, and so far the few games I've tried have been buttery smooth at max settings.  Since I'm coming from consoles, I'm not used to seeing 1080p resolution or 60+ fps.  It's _quite nice_





 And I can't tell you how much nicer it is to do photoshop & video editing on it compared to my old laptop.  Soooooooooooooooooo much faster


----------



## roguegeek

You can't leave it like that. You need to post some specs! What games are ya playing?


----------



## DADDYDC650

Nice rig Chico. Welcome to the master race. I'm gaming on 2x 780 Classys on 3x 1440p screens.


----------



## chicolom

roguegeek said:


> You can't leave it like that. You need to post some specs! What games are ya playing?


 
  
 What these specs?
 http://pcpartpicker.com/user/Chicolom/saved/3hwE
  
 I have a huge backlog of games I need to play.  A bunch of triple A games like Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Metro LL, etc. 
  
 I stocked up during the Steam holiday sale though, so I've got plenty to choose from...
  
  


daddydc650 said:


> Nice rig Chico. Welcome to the master race. I'm gaming on 2x 780 Classys on 3x 1440p screens.


 
  
 Thanks!  Praise be to Gaben 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Damn, that's a lot GPU power!


----------



## DADDYDC650

What monitor Chico? Nice specs in that beauty. Which headphone do you plan on hooking up to your Creative Z?


----------



## roguegeek

Nice. The only thing I'm looking to do to my rig at this point is drop in an R9 290X with a non-reference cooler.


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> Hey guys, I'm back! There have been like 25 new pages since last time (and, I see, a new MLE review! Nice one Mad, tho FYI being "adamant" about something is to stick to your guns about something... I'm often adamant, despite my name, lol).
> 
> *Anything I miss, or need to respond to? Btw, the SB Z must be mailed back soon, so I'll be forced to set up the Omni. Lol. Work has finally begun slowing down.*


 
  
 I saw your reply on the Z/Zx/ZxR thread to me on the Omni. Still waiting for you to test it out before I sell off my SBZ and get the Omni as well. Take your time though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 On a side note, sucks that the TurtleBeach i60's transmitter only works with the headset itself. Otherwise I'd be willing to try DTS HeadphoneX as a guinea pig.


----------



## chicolom

daddydc650 said:


> What monitor Chico? Nice specs in that beauty. Which headphone do you plan on hooking up to your Creative Z?


 
  
 My monitor is a 40" Samsung HDTV. 
  


Spoiler: Pics



 


  
  
 If I want to get fancy, I can match the colors up between the PC case and the bias light behind the screen. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



A couple more pics here
  
  
  

  
  
  
 I'm rolling with the X1s right now.  _Eventually_ I'll pick up another higher-end pair...probably the K812.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't do it! HD800, HE560! :veryevil:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So far, I've edited the DNA Pro, Alpha Dog, SRH1840 reviews to reflect my more recent layout changes. Mainly, underlining sections, adding spoiler tags for the last sections (less main page clutter), as well as removing section scores and changing it to a one word description on how good/bad it is. I feel people pay way too much attention to the minute differences in score, so to keep people from obsessing over a .25 difference, I'll just say how good or bad an aspect of a headphone is. Scores will remain for the final scoring, that's it. I will TRY and update some of the older entries to reflect this, but don't expect a full guide overhaul.


----------



## Fegefeuer

New Sennheiser Closed Headphones.
  
 http://en-de.sennheiser.com/on-ear-headphones-stereo-hd8-dj


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those pleather pads look obnoxious. Oh I see swappable velours. Hmmmm.


----------



## gamefreak054

mad lust envy said:


> So far, I've edited the DNA Pro, Alpha Dog, SRH1840 reviews to reflect my more recent layout changes. Mainly, underlining sections, adding spoiler tags for the last sections (less main page clutter), as well as removing section scores and changing it to a one word description on how good/bad it is. I feel people pay way too much attention to the minute differences in score, so to keep people from obsessing over a .25 difference, I'll just say how good or bad an aspect of a headphone is. Scores will remain for the final scoring, that's it. I will TRY and update some of the older entries to reflect this, but don't expect a full guide overhaul.


 
 Great idea, however just looking at the guide you may want to make it clear on all your word descriptions. For example is Fantastic better than amazing or is fantastic a step below amazing? 
  
 Just a simple scale at the top would probably clear all this up for example:
 Horrible->Bad->Ok->Good->Very Good->Fantastic->Amazing
  
 The scale may be obvious to most, but generally my thought is always make it clear as possible. I do not know if you are trying to avoid this as it slightly mimics a regular scoring scheme. However I still think it gets the same points you are trying get across without people focusing on numbers as much.


----------



## NamelessPFG

chicolom said:


> Spoiler: And my build is complete!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Quite nice indeed...I gotta say, Fractal Design sure makes some sleek cases.
  
 Indeed, I've taken 1920x1080 60 FPS to be the norm to the point where it's actually a rude awakening when I see a console version of a game in action and notice it struggling to keep above 30 FPS on sub-720p resolutions. Left 4 Dead 2 on X360 springs to mind...
  


mad lust envy said:


> Don't do it! HD800, HE560!


 
  
 At that rate, why settle for anything less than the SR-009?
  
 Head-Fi definitely is not the place to be talked OUT OF buying things, at any rate! My wallet's hated me for it ever since...


----------



## martin vegas

>


 
 What card or cards did you use?


----------



## Brick3

I borrowed hd598 from a friend of mine. *For comparison purpose and final decision for which to keep, i'm going to get either ad700 or k702.*
 So i'm asking again, which sounds more intimate, has forward mids and better sounding overall. 
 And is the difference in price worth the money? I can get ad700 for 130$ and k702 for 200$.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## BoboBrazil

What's the better move to power a set of headphones for PS4 gaming and movie watching? Should I do a mixamp or buy a receiver and use that to power the headphones? Would that provide enough juice with a good receiver? Most of the movies I watch have DTS tracks, which I know the mixamp can't decode.


----------



## Evshrug

Bobo, 
only receivers can make a surround mix from DTS at this current production time. The other thing to consider, do you also need to power speakers in the near future? A receiver can be quite convenient, but models with headphone surround are getting more rare. If you don't need speakers, something like a Mixamp or DSS is a simple solution.

Brick,
I would go K702 or K612 if you can afford it. AD700 is good but the AKGs are more involving.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Bobo,
> only receivers can make a surround mix from DTS at this current production time. The other thing to consider, do you also need to power speakers in the near future? A receiver can be quite convenient, but models with headphone surround are getting more rare. If you don't need speakers, something like a Mixamp or DSS is a simple solution.
> 
> Brick,
> I would go K702 or K612 if you can afford it. AD700 is good but the AKGs are more involving.


 
  
 +1 for the K612, especially for the price of $165 from razordog...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Those pleather pads look obnoxious. Oh I see swappable velours. Hmmmm.


 
  
  
 Indeed.  As soon as I see that scrunchy wrinkly type of pleather, I cringe. 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Don't do it! HD800, HE560!


 
  
 Strange to see _you_ advocating for the HD800.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 At any rate, I won't be able to buy anything for quite some time, and the HE560 will be thoroughly reviewed by then.  I'd be very surprised if the HE560 suddenly develops enough soundstage to compete with the HD800 or K812 though.
  
  


namelesspfg said:


> Quite nice indeed...I gotta say, Fractal Design sure makes some sleek cases.


 

 Thanks!  I agree on the Fractal Cases.  Very sleek and elegant looking IMO.
  
 And thank you for that heads-up about Micro Center doing price-protection refunds.  I just checked today, 14 days after I purchased my CPU+motherboard combo, and BOTH of them have just dropped in price.  The 4770K by $30 (back down to the 250 price) and the motherboard by $20.
  
 So I'll get *$50* back in my pocket if I drive down there today, which I'm going to do.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  


martin vegas said:


> What card or cards did you use?


 
  
 A GTX 770.  Specifically this one by PNY.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Only because I know you're a soundstage freak. COME ON.


----------



## AxelCloris

> Thanks!  I agree on the Fractal Cases.  Very sleek and elegant looking IMO.
> 
> And thank you for that heads-up about Micro Center doing price-protection refunds.  I just checked today, 14 days after I purchased my CPU+motherboard combo, and BOTH of them have just dropped in price.  The 4770K by $30 (back down to the 250 price) and the motherboard by $20.
> So I'll get *$50* back in my pocket if I drive down there today, which I'm going to do.


 
  
 If ever needed I can always stop in there with a photocopy of the receipt and handle that for you. I live 5 minutes from the store and work another 5 away. Bit of a drive from your town to the store just for that. No can do today since I'm working now.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> If ever needed I can always stop in there with a photocopy of the receipt and handle that for you. I live 5 minutes from the store and work another 5 away. Bit of a drive from your town to the store just for that. No can do today since I'm working now.


 
  
 Thanks.  I called them and they said they need to swipe the actual card though, as the way they refund is by putting it back on the card.  So I'd have to go in myself regardless.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Thanks.  I called them and they said they need to swipe the actual card though, as the way they refund is by putting it back on the card.  So I'd have to go in myself regardless.


 
  
 Easy fix, just get me a copy of your card.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> Easy fix, just get me a copy of your card.


 
  
 Or....I could just post my credit card info and social security number right here on the forums, so all the kind people of the internet can help out!


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Or....I could just post my credit card info and social security number right here on the forums, so all the kind people of the internet can help out!


 
  
 No, they wouldn't be able to scan the card then. If you want to do that those blanket fliers that advertise car sales could include a plastic card and then everyone can really help!


----------



## BoboBrazil

evshrug said:


> Bobo,
> only receivers can make a surround mix from DTS at this current production time. The other thing to consider, do you also need to power speakers in the near future? A receiver can be quite convenient, but models with headphone surround are getting more rare. If you don't need speakers, something like a Mixamp or DSS is a simple solution.


 
  
 Well I'm not doing speakers at the current time. I don't want to piss off my neighbors as I'm in an apartment. The problem with something like the mixamp for me is it doesn't decode dts audio. So when I hook it up to something like my wdtv it can't play the dts tracks my movies are encoded in. Would there be an amp that would work with PS4 that can also do dts? Something that can do both is the perfect solution for me.


----------



## roguegeek

chicolom said:


> I have a huge backlog of games I need to play.  A bunch of triple A games like Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Metro LL, etc.
> 
> I stocked up during the Steam holiday sale though, so I've got plenty to choose from...


 
 I don't see BF4 in that arsenal. For shame. No worries. I'll make sure you're copied on the next Origins deal!


----------



## Quietsy

chicolom said:


> My monitor is a 40" Samsung HDTV.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You'll buy headphones that cost as much as your entire computer?


----------



## chicolom

quietsy said:


> You'll buy headphones that cost as much as your entire computer?


 
  
 Welcome to Head-fi...


----------



## Brick3

*Evsrhug
 Thank. Any more elaborative answers?


> *Ad700 & k712* which sounds more intimate, has forward mids and better sounding overall.
> And is the difference in price worth the money? I can get ad700 for 130$ and k702 for 200$.
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## AxelCloris

Benefits of Mac gaming, not many headphones are more expensive than my computer.


----------



## Fegefeuer

quietsy said:


> You'll buy headphones that cost as much as your entire computer?


 
  
 If kept they last longer than a computer that costs the same. Most likely people upgrade their computer as well, after 2 years even (graphics for instance) and then the comparison gets even worse.


----------



## Change is Good

Contacted Frank from AKG parts about the K712 pads, and was informed that it's the same part number for the Anniversary as well. Real skeptical about pulling the trigger... because would much I prefer the thicker pads, and there is no refund available after purchase. Grrrrr....


----------



## Hawkbear

I just ordered the AKG Q701 with Fiio E10 (might upgrade the amp later, it seems a lot of people here don't like FiiO) and the HiFiMan-400 on Amazon. There's no place I can find locally that would let me try these out, so I figure I'll return whichever one I like less.
  
 And just so people know, the HiFis are $100 off ($299) today. It's not available via Amazon directly, but there are still some 3rd party sellers with fulfillment via Amazon selling them. It's possible that it's the new price, and they'll be releasing new models soon.
  
 The nicest headphones I own right now are the ATH M50's, so I'm not sure what to expect really of $200-300 pair of headphones. Thanks for putting together this guide, Mad Lust!


----------



## MrBounce

deleted


----------



## saer

How do the AKG 65th's stack up against HD800 for gaming ?


----------



## roguegeek

hawkbear said:


> I just ordered the AKG Q701 with Fiio E10 (might upgrade the amp later, it seems a lot of people here don't like FiiO) and the HiFiMan-400 on Amazon. There's no place I can find locally that would let me try these out, so I figure I'll return whichever one I like less.
> 
> And just so people know, the HiFis are $100 off ($299) today. It's not available via Amazon directly, but there are still some 3rd party sellers with fulfillment via Amazon selling them. It's possible that it's the new price, and they'll be releasing new models soon.
> 
> The nicest headphones I own right now are the ATH M50's, so I'm not sure what to expect really of $200-300 pair of headphones. Thanks for putting together this guide, Mad Lust!


 
 The Q701 is a good upgrade over an M50. Don't worry about the FiiO products, either. No, they aren't the best, but they aren't expected to be at their price. There is a purpose out there that they serve and they do it pretty well. Consider them a gateway drug to bigger and better things.


----------



## AxelCloris

For those who are interested, you can get the K612 for lower than the $175 at Razor Dog Audio. Do some Googling and you can find them for $159 shipped to the US.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> For those who are interested, you can get the K612 for lower than the $175 at Razor Dog Audio. Do some Googling and you can find them for $159 shipped to the US.




I paid 165 (not 175)... so I aint mad... though six bucks coulda bought be a burger n fries 

I could have searched elsewhere, but roughly 160 is what I read was the lowest they've gone for brand new. Razordog's discount of 165 was close enough for me... shipped within the US.


----------



## GrayRaven

bobobrazil said:


> Well I'm not doing speakers at the current time. I don't want to piss off my neighbors as I'm in an apartment. The problem with something like the mixamp for me is it doesn't decode dts audio. So when I hook it up to something like my wdtv it can't play the dts tracks my movies are encoded in. Would there be an amp that would work with PS4 that can also do dts? Something that can do both is the perfect solution for me.


 
 Same boat but i got a laptop to add to the setup. More headache.
  
 I got a riddle for you guys,
  
 Some thing like (or near) the Beyerdynamic Headzone in functionality (minus the head tracking nonsense)
 but 700 bucks cheaper.
  
 Can you guide me to such thing?


----------



## Fegefeuer

grayraven said:


> Same boat but i got a laptop to add to the setup. More headache.
> 
> I got a riddle for you guys,
> 
> ...


 
  
 The best thing could be the thing out of the FiiO petition some day if FiiO really's interested. Until then it's the Astrogaming Mixamp.


----------



## GrayRaven

hmmm looks the options are really slim in this regard.


----------



## rudyae86

I Was wondering about something....my x1 and ma900 have arrived at home but im in mexico and wont try them out till this Sunday morning when I arrive in LA (just in time for super bowl)....

But ive been reading up on the AkG Annies and the k702....

If i bought the K702 and put on the earpads from the Annies onto the K702, will the sound signiture be almost equal to the Annies but for less money? Either way, i wouldnt mind spending the 400 bucks for the Annies because they dam look nice and im pretty sure they sound really good compared to the ma900 and X1s


----------



## Chubtoad

Is there any way to loosen up the clamping on the X1's? They are fairly uncomfortable compared to the Annies. In fact the comfort is fairly awful to me so far, but I suppose I have a large head and large ears to go with it.

They are heavier and clamp like a Mofo to me. They sound great and I love the bass they can produce but the comfort is like night and day for me. The earpads themselves are fine but the clamping force is crazy.

Speaking of bass I'm quite surprised at how well they can handle bass boosting through my sound card. The X1 was able to handle +12db with no distortion at all and the Annies can handle maybe +3db. Granted I don't use the bass boost for practical everyday use but it was fun to see just how much/deep they could go.

So yeah, Comfort wise the Annies blow the X1 away, I'm hoping there is a way to fix this. Perhaps they will loosen up over time with normal use. I have probably 15-20 or so hours with them so far over multiple sessions.


----------



## Nokami

Got an MMX300 for 240€ and i wonder they are not really bass heavy its just like the PC360 Bass (a bit more i think). But the Positioning is clearly better and the Soundstage is as big. I really think that i sell my 360s for this...
  
 might be an bass light version idk


----------



## chicolom

rudyae86 said:


> I Was wondering about something....my x1 and ma900 have arrived at home but im in mexico and wont try them out till this Sunday morning when I arrive in LA (just in time for super bowl)....
> 
> But ive been reading up on the AkG Annies and the k702....
> 
> If i bought the K702 and put on the earpads from the Annies onto the K702, will the sound signiture be almost equal to the Annies but for less money? Either way, i wouldnt mind spending the 400 bucks for the Annies because they dam look nice and im pretty sure they sound really good compared to the ma900 and X1s


 
  
 I would try the X1s and MA900s out first before you buy another $400 headphone.  Unless you really want to, then go ahead I guess.
  


chubtoad said:


> Is there any way to loosen up the clamping on the X1's? They are fairly uncomfortable compared to the Annies. In fact the comfort is fairly awful to me so far, but I suppose I have a large head and large ears to go with it.
> 
> They are heavier and clamp like a Mofo to me. They sound great and I love the bass they can produce but the comfort is like night and day for me. The earpads themselves are fine but the clamping force is crazy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can try leaving them stretched over a box or a ball.  You can also bend the metal bars at the top to reshape the headband.
  
 From my experience the X1s have a normal and reasonable amount of clamp.  They don't clamp nearly as bad as Sennheisers, which even for me have substantial clamp out of the box (and I have a small head).


----------



## Grandagony

Saw the Monster DNA Pro's setup at Best Buy the other day. They had four of them setup on display. All four of them were broken at the exact same spot on the headband. Now I know people are rough as crap on demos in a store but still.. worth a mention I feel.


----------



## Evshrug

hawkbear said:


> I just ordered the AKG Q701 with Fiio E10 (might upgrade the amp later, it seems a lot of people here don't like FiiO) and the HiFiMan-400 on Amazon. There's no place I can find locally that would let me try these out, so I figure I'll return whichever one I like less.




Hawkbear,
Many people here like FiiO, and started their setups with FiiO. My first amp was an E5, and I still own an E12. The thing is, FiiO is focused on making inexpensive starter products... after $120 they don't offer better amps or DACs to upgrade to.




brick3 said:


> elaborate, please?



Well...
I really liked my AD700, used them for 3 years before upgrading to AKG Q701 headphones. The AD700 were lightweight, comfortable (especially after carefully bending the headband so the earcups would rest flat against my head), and sounded really good and had good soundstage and separation even with just the inexpensive FiiO E5 amp. 

To that, the Q701 added better Earpad comfort, more detail resolution, more bass to balance out the frequency spectrum... But more difficult to describe, something that cannot be measured in dB, I found the Q701 grabbed my interest more. The AD700 (and to an extent, the MA900) would leave me a bit bored if I tried to listen to a whole CD, and games were held back a bit from sounding spectacular. With the Q701, I wasn't hearing many new notes that I had never heard before, but the experience was different, and in the 4 months I had both at the same time it became clear that the AD700 was good, but I enjoyed the AKG more.

I have not actually heard the K702 myself, but I read that they were revised to sound more like the Q701. The K712 is supposed to have a bigger difference, but for me the sound has the same benefits with just a tweak in tonality.



bobobrazil said:


> Well I'm not doing speakers at the current time. I don't want to piss off my neighbors as I'm in an apartment. The problem with something like the mixamp for me is it doesn't decode dts audio. So when I hook it up to something like my wdtv it can't play the dts tracks my movies are encoded in. Would there be an amp that would work with PS4 that can also do dts? Something that can do both is the perfect solution for me.




You and *GrayRaven* (and everybody else),
You should sign Chico's petition to FiiO, asking them to make a superior device, hopefully with DTS Connect decoding as well as Dolby Digital Live:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio

For your Playstations, I haven't owned one myself (intend to get a PS4), but I think you can use the bitstreaming options to convert the output to Dolby, which could be understood by the different surround processors we recommend here. But still, sign the petition!


----------



## AxelCloris

To my PC/Mac gaming brothers and sisters, GOG.com has a sale going on. Top games from the past 30 years on sale. Titles will be changing often, the current one will only be up for 20 minutes. Current title is the 1986 classic Might & Magic. 6-pack, limited edition version for $2.50.


----------



## Murder Mike

This is a much better set up than the last sale, but I also think that the games will be better overall so there shouldn't be many duds. Buying a game will add 3 seconds and you have an option to add a second to the timer or subtract a second from the timer by voting. So, if there's no interest in a game, it will expire faster than last time where you had to wait for all the copies to be sold.


----------



## AxelCloris

Agreed, and I have a few games in their classics list that I hope come up for sale, just not while I'm asleep.


----------



## Skipshrike

evshrug said:


> I have not actually heard the K702 myself, but I read that they were revised to sound more like the Q701. The K712 is supposed to have a bigger difference, but for me the sound has the same benefits with just a tweak in tonality.


 
  
 I haven't heard the Q701's, but The K712's work extremely well for me with the Magni and the 2011 mixamp when gaming on a console.  Fun fact: the orange cable is more visible and I've tripped over it less.
  
 I think the extra 3dB helped and I've looked, can't stop looking, at new headphones with renewed wallet-control now.


----------



## rc10mike

Besides the MixAmp and Turtle Beach DSS1, there is another way to get Dolby Headphone for you headphones. Some AVRs have Dolby Headphone built in to their headphone jack. You just need to do some research to find the ones that have it.
  
 For me, it kills two birds with one stone. I have an AVR for normal movies etc...but I can also plug my headphones in and get Dolby Headphone with any source, ie; gaming console.
  
 Yamaha has its own Dolby Headphone processing called "Silent Cinema", but Ive seen very little reviews on it.
  
 I was skeptical at first, but my Marantz SR6005 does everything, I no longer need a DSS or Mixamp.


----------



## psx2

Hey,
  
 I noticed on the AKG K701 description you said this -
  


> Trust me, the Mixamp is enough for the K701 if again, you don't add voice chat. If you do, you WILL need to attach an amp to the Mixamp's headphone out, just to juice the K70x and voice chat audio. Yes, they do scale with good amping, but for the purpose of gaming, I don't deem it necessary, asides from when you're in need of voice chat.


 
  
 Can you recommend me the absolute cheapest amp to just add the voice chat with the mixamp. I'm not looking to improve quality/sound only something to power the voice chat audio and K701. (Sorry if this does not make sense, I'm clueless when it comes to audio)


----------



## Fegefeuer

We really need more interest for the FiiO petition. Some of you guys are frequent posters in Overclock.net (or other forums) etc...maybe we can get a lot from there?


----------



## Brick3

*Between ma900 and hd598 which has more forward/intimate mids with more emphasized treble and better for competitive gaming?*
 Please response if you have owned both and not just based on the reviews cuz i've read a lot of reviews as well.
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Hawkbear

roguegeek said:


> The Q701 is a good upgrade over an M50. Don't worry about the FiiO products, either. No, they aren't the best, but they aren't expected to be at their price. There is a purpose out there that they serve and they do it pretty well. Consider them a gateway drug to bigger and better things.


 
  
  
 Hah, if my wife knew that those ATH M50s she got me were a gateway drug, I think she would have reconsidered!
  
 I'm wearing the HiFi-400 right now, been testing it today. At first I wasn't sure what to think, just because I'm used to the closed headphones and I couldn't seem to get the volume high enough. But, I had some weird sound settings on my PC, and after I fixed that they sound amazing. There are still some songs that are too quiet, for some reason, but I'll see how they do with an amp. I never understood what people meant when they say that a headphone is "precise" or "detailed" until I tried these. 
  
 Not that it matters for sound, but from an aesthetic standpoint, the Hifi cans look ridiculous. My wife walked into my office, froze, and laughed when she saw them. Then, I had her try them. She typically dismisses my new gadgets immediately, but she wore them for a few full songs.
  
 I knew the Q701s would be much better looking, but I was interested in the sound from the HiFi's planar tech. After having them for only a day, I'm actually growing to like the ridiculous look of it, probably just because they sound so good.
  
 I agree 100% so far with what MLE said about the HiFi-400, especially with the bass. I listened to a few songs that I remembered had more bass with my M50s, and I was slightly disappointed. But, I tried a handful of more bass-heavy songs, and the difference was huge. Just like MLE said, if there is bass, you're going to hear it.
  
 I've been listening to the M50s for almost 2 years, and while I still like them, especially for the price, it seems like when you're used to a particular sound that it takes some time for your ears to adjust. It probably took 10-20 minutes for me to adjust to the open headphone "atmosphere". 
  
 I get the Q701 today and the FiiO E10, I'll give a quick review once I've tried them both with the amp and I decide which headphone that I'll keep.


----------



## kraken2109

If you're considering the K701/702/Q701 or even Sennheiser HD600/650 I recommend looking at the AKG K612 pro. I just got a pair for £112 and so far I think they're amazing. I've used HD650s before, and ignoring a slight (not huge) difference in sound signature, I think they're just as good.
 I was considering the K702 and everyone says 'not enough bass' so I was a little worried about these, but I honestly think the bass is perfect. They can easily handle lots of bass and go really low but never enough to negatively impact music.
 I will try them with some games soon, but I have a feeling they're going to be great thanks to the nice wide soundstage.


----------



## Hawkbear

I got the Q701 right when I finished the other post. I didn't need to try them for very long, and my wife said they're both hideous, so I'll pick the one with the sound and comfort that I prefer: the HE-400.
  
 I was surprised at how much volume I got out of the Q701 without an amp on my PC. But I did try them with the FiiO E10, and it was better. I liked the soundstage on the Q701 a lot, and if I were just a gamer, I actually might pick them over the Hifis. But generally I'm working on my PC, and I listen to music probably more than I can game, and I prefer how music sounds from the Hifi. 
  
 The other thing that made the decision easy, even though I didn't think would bug me, was the bumps on the bottom of the Q701 headband. Even if I liked the sound better overall, I probably would have sent the Q701 back and gone for the Annies or even the K702, because those bumps were really uncomfortable. I have a completely shaved head, so perhaps if I had some "extra hair padding", it would have been fine. 
  
 I was amazed at how much lighter the Q701 was over the HE400, but the HE400 is still by far more comfortable. So I'm keeping the HE400, thanks for all the advice everyone.


----------



## roguegeek

hawkbear said:


> I got the Q701 right when I finished the other post. I didn't need to try them for very long, and my wife said they're both hideous, so I'll pick the one with the sound and comfort that I prefer: the HE-400.
> 
> I was surprised at how much volume I got out of the Q701 without an amp on my PC. But I did try them with the FiiO E10, and it was better. I liked the soundstage on the Q701 a lot, and if I were just a gamer, I actually might pick them over the Hifis. But generally I'm working on my PC, and I listen to music probably more than I can game, and I prefer how music sounds from the Hifi.
> 
> ...


 
 Good job, man. Now, granted, I totally disagree with you and this particularly biased thread with the HE-400, but who cares? You asked, you tried, and you came to your own conclusions. This whole community would be better off just going for it like you did because no forum is going to be able to answer all of your questions. It's all about the journey and the only god around here are your own ears.


----------



## Grandagony

rc10mike said:


> Besides the MixAmp and Turtle Beach DSS1, there is another way to get Dolby Headphone for you headphones. Some AVRs have Dolby Headphone built in to their headphone jack. You just need to do some research to find the ones that have it.
> 
> For me, it kills two birds with one stone. I have an AVR for normal movies etc...but I can also plug my headphones in and get Dolby Headphone with any source, ie; gaming console.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Silent Cinema does not impress me at all (I have a Yamaha receiver), almost no 3D positioning as far as I can tell.


----------



## Sugi

The Plyr1 is still on sale at BestBuy & Amazon for $130. It appears the product from Amazon comes with a stand while the one from BestBuy does not, at least it looks like that in the image. The stand should be require for 7.1 surround on the computer.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Skullcandy-Surround-SMPYFY-003-Not-Machine-Specific/dp/B00C2B2Y9A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391034105&sr=8-1&keywords=plyr1
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/*plyr1*-gaming-wireless-headset-for-xbox-360-and-playstation-3/8828355.p


----------



## Hawkbear

Thanks, roguegeek! I appreciate your comment, and your honesty.
  
 I looked at this forum for a few weeks, and it was definitely hard to choose. I spent several nights staying up until 3AM, scouring hundreds of reviews and comments. I was frustrated—too much information was making the choice harder. But, I finally bought two pairs and and decided that I would keep my favorite—otherwise I would just keep looking and guessing.
  
 I saw another post where some guy bought 5 pairs and was planning on sending them back. I feel bad enough for just returning one pair, haha. If there were a local place to buy or try headphones, it wouldn't be an issue, but the only shop that's within 3 hours of me has some high-end Sennheisers and not much else. 
  
 You've nailed the point that I reached after reading too much: people have different ears, different tastes, different requirements and there is no "holy grail" headphone that will satisfy everyone. You can't hear the perfect headphones in a forum, so I'm happy I stopped reading so much and just ordered a couple pairs to try.


----------



## Sugi

hawkbear said:


> ....so I'm happy I stopped reading so much and just ordered a couple pairs to try.


 
 I did the same thing. I was reading review after review, page after page, and thread after thread and I got nowhere. But I did learned a lot. Although I was no where near buying anything. However I finally decided to get a pair because it was $50 dollars off and I have been waiting for so long.


----------



## Ultimatepancake

Mad Lust Envy is there a chance you could review the Sennheiser HD 558?


----------



## AxelCloris

ultimatepancake said:


> Mad Lust Envy is there a chance you could review the Sennheiser HD 558?


 
  
 The 558 is one that's been mentioned a lot throughout the thread. Use the search function and you'll find a whole lot of info on it.


----------



## Brick3

*Have anyone tried k612? I'm really wondering the difference between q701? *


----------



## kraken2109

brick3 said:


> *Have anyone tried k612? I'm really wondering the difference between q701? *


 

 I got the 612 yesterday, I haven't used the Q701 but I can certainly recommend the K612s. Especially in the UK where they're essentially half the price.


----------



## martin vegas

This is going cheap on xbox360 and ps3 this week only!


----------



## gamefreak054

I hear so many good reviews about that game but have been hesitant to buy it as I do not enjoy puzzle games that much.


----------



## Sugi

martin vegas said:


> This is going cheap on xbox360 and ps3 this week only!




 Rented it and enjoyed it quite a bit. Where is it on sale at?
  
 Also, just purchased the Skullcandy Plyr1 from Sonic Electronix and price matched it at amazon for 130. Two day free shipping from Sonic Electronix, it's nice if you don't have the prime account from Amazon.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Seems as if the X1's are dropping in price. Down to $243 on Amazon.


----------



## Change is Good

They sold for $250 back in August when I bought mine. I wouldn't necessarily say its dropping in price at that range. I've even see in it at $225 around the holidays, I believe. 

Once it CONSISTENTLY reaches sub $200 (not just a one-time sale for $150), we can conclude its price is dropping... and possibly assume there will be a new model to be released. (X2?)


----------



## rudyae86

The X1s price seems to always fluctuate. Especially in these past 2 months, Iv seen them be at 299 then 275, 250...But the best price was 150 ....yeah, I bought them at that price about 2 weeks ago lol.

Even if they were to release an updated version or X2, i dont think there would be a big improvement. 

Nothing big as to ditch the X1s....

2 more days till i get back to LA from my trip in Mexico, and then I will finally try the X1s and MA900s that i ordered and see which ones i will keep..or probobly keep both...Errgghh i want to be back already lol even ordered a Recon3D for my gaming needs lol and some games


----------



## Change is Good

Its price has actually been fluctuating for the past _six_ months... it's just happening more often as of late.
  
 As for improvements over the X1? I can think of quite a few, actually... but it's all personal taste... so I'd rather not elaborate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only improvements necessary for me is easily swappable pads, lower resistance cable, and longer extension. As far as sound, I'm pretty happy with the X1, though it could stand to have tighter bass.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The only improvements necessary for me is easily swappable pads, lower resistance cable, and longer extension. As far as sound, I'm pretty happy with the X1, though *it could stand to have tighter bass*.


 
  
 Ding ding ding!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ooh, my Monster DNA Pro review got front page coverage. Woot. 

Not bad, for not having a single 'standard' Head-fi review. h34r:


----------



## TiTaN

Looking to upgrade from AD700 to something a little more comfortable. Definitely prefer competitive accuracy and sound-whoring, but want something that I can also listen to rock/metal music and has a fun side too.
  
 From reading the awesome reviews in this post I've found something like the X1 or MA900 might be good fits, and I once had a pair of the K701's but never used them for gaming before I got rid of them.
  
 What would be your best suggestion?


----------



## Murder Mike

titan said:


> What would be your best suggestion?


 
  
 Maybe look into the K612 (you might need a decent amp to drive them properly though). A couple of people here just got them, so they can comment more. 
  
 If not, the MA900 would probably be your best bet.


----------



## Change is Good

murder mike said:


> Maybe look into the K612 (you might need a decent amp to drive them properly though). A couple of people here just got them, so they can comment more.
> 
> If not, the MA900 would probably be your best bet.




If he liked the K702... the 612 (though somewhat different) might be a safe choice as its nuetral from bottom to top. But it really depends on what he is looking for (sound wise) with this upgrade...

The other two (MA900, X1) have more bass emphasis... especially the X1. The 612 does, however, extend lower than the MA900.


----------



## TiTaN

murder mike said:


> Maybe look into the K612 (you might need a decent amp to drive them properly though). A couple of people here just got them, so they can comment more.
> 
> If not, the MA900 would probably be your best bet.


 
  
 What would put the MA900 over the X1 or other options? I am not looking to spend a whole lot on an amp, but if needed what would be a good cheap option for now?
  


change is good said:


> K612 is a great option, but really depends on his taste. If he liked the K702... the 612 (though somewhat different) might be a safe choice as its nuetral from bottom to top.
> 
> The other two (MA900, X1) have more bass emphasis... especially the X1.


 
  
 I haven't heard the K702 and don't know how they differed from the K701. I'll definitely read into the K612 though since you both seemed to think they'd be a good option. How do they differ from the K701?


----------



## Change is Good

titan said:


> What would put the MA900 over the X1 or other options? I am not looking to spend a whole lot on an amp, but if needed what would be a good cheap option for now?
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the K702 and don't know how they differed from the K701. I'll definitely read into the K612 though since you both seemed to think they'd be a good option. How do they differ from the K701?




Sorry, thought you had the K702. I started my AKG journey with the Q701, so can't comment on the K701.

As for what puts one over the other... nothing does. Choosing between the MA900, X1, and K612 is all a matter of taste. If you're going to do a lot of competitive gaming, however, the X1 might not be a good choice.


----------



## TiTaN

change is good said:


> Sorry, thought you had the K702. I started my AKG journey with the Q701, so can't comment on the K701.
> 
> As for what puts one over the other... nothing does. Choosing between the MA900, X1, and K612 is all a matter of taste. If you're going to do a lot of competitive gaming, however, the X1 might not be a good choice.


 
 Damn, that makes me kind of sad, I was hoping to find a pair of those to try out for a good price after the recent sale I missed out on. In terms of "competitive gaming", I mostly use a headset on my Xbox 360 station with a buddy or two in CoD Ghosts or whatever FPS we're on at the time, so it's nothing extremely important, but like I said I do try to use sound cues as much as possible when playing in the more competitive gametypes.
  
 I enjoy the AD700's a lot and kept them over a pair of HD598's due to the price difference and the modmic I had on them, but sometimes feel like something a step or two towards the fun side of the spectrum would be nice, and especially more comfortable, as the AD700's slip without a rubber band and for some reason are itchy at times.


----------



## Change is Good

titan said:


> Damn, that makes me kind of sad, I was hoping to find a pair of those to try out for a good price after the recent sale I missed out on. In terms of "competitive gaming", I mostly use a headset on my Xbox 360 station with a buddy or two in CoD Ghosts or whatever FPS we're on at the time, so it's nothing extremely important, but like I said I do try to use sound cues as much as possible when playing in the more competitive gametypes.
> 
> I enjoy the AD700's a lot and kept them over a pair of HD598's due to the price difference and the modmic I had on them, but sometimes feel like something a step or two towards the fun side of the spectrum would be nice, and especially more comfortable, as the AD700's slip without a rubber band and for some reason are itchy at times.


 
  
 I see, I would like to re-word my phrase and say the X1 wouldn't be the _best_ choice if you do alot of competitive gaming, especially coming from the sound cue whore of the AD700.
  
 A "step or two towards the fun side" from the AD700 with better comfort would be something like the 2013 K702 (bumpless) and K612... and even the MA900. Though, I'd say the MA900 has more of a mid bass hump than those... but rolls off in the sub range.


----------



## TiTaN

change is good said:


> I see, I would like to re-word my phrase and say the X1 wouldn't be the _best_ choice if you do alot of competitive gaming, especially coming from the sound cue whore of the AD700.
> 
> A "step or two towards the fun side" from the AD700 with better comfort would be something like the 2013 K702 (bumpless) and K612... and even the MA900. Though, I'd say the MA900 has more of a mid bass hump than those... but rolls off in the sub range.


 
  
 Which of these would work best if I wanted to also listen to rock/metal and enjoyed my Grado RS-1/SR-225 and Senn HD598 for those?


----------



## Change is Good

titan said:


> Which of these would work best if I wanted to also listen to rock/metal and enjoyed my Grado RS-1/SR-225 and Senn HD598 for those?


 
  
 Never had any those, and don't listen to much rock/metal. Anyone care to chime in and help?


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> The only improvements necessary for me is easily swappable pads, lower resistance cable, and longer extension. As far as sound, I'm pretty happy with the X1, though it could stand to have tighter bass.


 
 Those are fairly significant request, IMO, especially the swappable pads. That just makes no sense to me why it wouldn't have those.


----------



## SaLX

The X1 is _excellent _for the price. Kind of a zero brainer really. Honestly just get one ....... with a PC you can EQ out the bass to make it more competitive if that's your thong.
  
 I was toying with getting a K712, but seeing as it appears to be a side grade, I'd far prefer to spend a bit more....... thing is: if I spend $600 fat one's on a gaming grade open headphone, basically there's not a lot to choose from. I don't want to go ape ... Open / $600 / good for games and musak: what's a guy to do?


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> The X1 is _excellent _for the price. Kind of a zero brainer really. Honestly just get one ....... with a PC you can EQ out the bass to make it more competitive if that's your thong.
> 
> I was toying with getting a K712, but seeing as it appears to be a side grade, I'd far prefer to spend a bit more....... thing is:  if I spend $600 fat one's on a gaming grade open headphone, basically there's not a lot to choose from. I don't want to go ape ... *Open / $600 / good for games and musak: what's a guy to do?*


 
  
Try to win these and hope you've got money left over for a Pro bias amp, perhaps? Or maybe this setup, if you've got a speaker amp on hand and shipping from Australia doesn't murder your budget. Or, just maybe, $600 will be just enough to get you an ESP/950 somewhere.
  
 If anything, the headphones are the easy part. The amps, on the other hand...


----------



## SaLX

Nameless:  know you're a huge fan.. wish I could be there for those Stax - they also sound so 70's!!! In all likelihood I'll never _ever ever _get to hear those *****ers. Just kind of want to "get there" without having to get LCD's which have a closed and intimate but non gaming friendly soundstage. Can't $600 buy you the ear-hookers of your dreams?
  
 Just been playing some DayZ: SA on my X1's (su- ****ingperb).... the sound engine's essentially pretty crap (baked in sounds with no direction), however the crucial positional moments when you _can_ hear those bandits lurking around the corner are absolutely heart stopping. They've got the crack of a bullet down pat too. Duck ASAP and **** yourself. Early alpha though.......
  
 BTW: it's an intense game, mainly because you actually have to work for your gear and losing it is too much for your average teen gamer. (no offence teen gamers). It's also far better in first person - just like in Battlefield, COD and every other 1st person shooter as you can't peek over walls and stuff..... I know 3rd person is good for WoW and other games, but try it in 1st...........your pulse will_ go through the roof. _*Do it.*


----------



## DADDYDC650

So, the only real headphones I currently own are the X1's. I'm looking into the Alpha Dogs since I need closed cans and I'm looking forward to the He-560. I'll be done for a couple of years after that, I hope....


----------



## Change is Good

You may want to ask MLE to differentiate the two for you. FWIR, you may find the Alpha Dog's bass to be underwhelming when compared to the X1.


----------



## SaLX

I'd really like to know what is a distinct upgrade (open of course) from the AKG 7 series, the Beyer 7,8 and 9's and the X1; all without breaking the bank. Do you really have to spend a **** tonne more to go up a grade.... and is it truly worth it? Nebulous stuff this headphones thing.


----------



## NCSUZoSo

Guys I have to say after getting about 20 hours on the SoundMAGIC HP100s I am really, really starting to enjoy them.  Not only are they extremely light (and extremely durable), but they sound awesome.  Definitely the best sounding headphones I have put on my head except for the $900 Denons my brother owns.  The funny thing is my brother has been using his Marantz 2500 to push them and when I brought over my Aune T1 and hooked it up to his 8+ year old Dell he was blown away by the sound difference and now he is of course looking at $500+ DAC/Amps.... 
  
 Big Brothers, always have to show you up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I would recommend the SoundMAGIC HP100s to anyone looking in the sub $200 category that want good over the ear closed headphones for everything from Movies to Music to Competitive Gaming.  I wouldn't say they are "Competitive Gaming" headphones in terms of other offerings specific to that category, but for the price it is hard to beat them if you also value Movies/Music.


----------



## kman1211

salx said:


> I'd really like to know what is a distinct upgrade (open of course) from the AKG 7 series, the Beyer 7,8 and 9's and the X1; all without breaking the bank. Do you really have to spend a **** tonne more to go up a grade.... and is it truly worth it? Nebulous stuff this headphones thing.


 
 Well the AKG 6xx/7xx, Beyer DT 7/8/9, Senn HD 6xx, etc. is where you hit the point of diminishing returns in headphones and is also the point where the system becomes very important, upgrades after that will cost a good chunk more unless you get lucky and find a good deal. Real upgrades are likely going to cost at least $700 in the form of lower-end electrostats and some of the better orthos, this is when it's generally not worth spending money on dynamics with a few exceptions. Sadly I find most of the totl dynamics mixed bags due to treble grain issues, some being worse than others. I've only heard one dynamic headphone that truly compares with the best of the electrostats and orthos but it's a relic of the past.


----------



## SaLX

Thanks for the reply Kman... diminishing returns indeed, Still though...............
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Highly tempted to get the K712's _at the very least_. I've now realised that I'm personally not that into gobs of bass after all (not that the X1 is bass heavy).
  
 An open gaming headset at the 6-700 bucks mark, with a wide soundstage...........................


----------



## conquerator2

salx said:


> Thanks for the reply Kman... diminishing returns indeed, Still though...............  Highly tempted to get the K712's _at the very least_. I've now realised that I'm personally not that into gobs of bass after all (not that the X1 is bass heavy).
> 
> An open gaming headset at the 6-700 bucks mark, with a wide soundstage...........................




You might wanna wait till March/Ap when HFM releases their new headphones.
I am definitely buying one of them


----------



## SaLX

_Absolutely_ superb writeup conquerator... http://www.head-fi.org/t/650912/hifiman-he-6-re-400-iem-and-ultrasone-pro-900-ultimate-reviews. Keep writing more stuff please.
  
 Particularly interested in your thoughts on the Audio_gd's. Fantastic mate .. really enjoyed reading that. Love the comprehensive ratings for all the games and music too.
  
 **Edit** C2.. so what are the new phones going to bring to the table?


----------



## conquerator2

salx said:


> Absolutely superb writeup conquerator... http://www.head-fi.org/t/650912/hifiman-he-6-re-400-iem-and-ultrasone-pro-900-ultimate-reviews. Keep writing more stuff please.
> 
> Particularly interested in your thoughts on the Audio_gd's.




Ow, thank you man 
I'll probably add the Pro900 in tomorrow and will start working on the K612, MA900 and X1.
I enjoy writing these, though it requires a good dead of concentration to write things that make sense xD 

I gave my impressions on the Audio-GDs, didn't I? I like the brand a lot, though I went for an Mstage this time around (will add that one up too )


----------



## SaLX

K612, MA900 and X1 comparison reviews I will look forward to. You will very probably get a very heated discussion when you go to press.
  
 The K612's look like a huge bargain from all the reports. Wish MLE could get his greasy mitts on them given his broad experience.


----------



## conquerator2

salx said:


> K612, MA900 and X1 comparison reviews I will look forward to. You will very probably get a very heated discussion when you go to press.
> 
> The K612's look like a huge bargain from all the reports. Wish MLE could get his greasy mitts on them given his broad experience.




So do I. I do like them a lot but I'd love to read his opinion and rankings on it


----------



## martb

daddydc650 said:


> Just wanted to say that the Philips X1 + V-MODA BoomPro + 5.8 wireless mixamp = AMAZING! That is all.




Are You using this setup on PS4 by any chance? I'm having real problems getting chat to work with the same set up on PS4. If you are could you give me details on how you do it, Thanks.


----------



## xela3

Would the AKG q701 still be considered one of the best with the astro 2013 mixamp for console competitive.


----------



## DADDYDC650

martb said:


> Are You using this setup on PS4 by any chance? I'm having real problems getting chat to work with the same set up on PS4. If you are could you give me details on how you do it, Thanks.


You need to purchase the Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable from Amazon. Connect that cable from the 5.8 mixamp to the PS4 controller. Chat will work perfectly once you do.


----------



## martb

daddydc650 said:


> You need to purchase the Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable from Amazon. Connect that cable from the 5.8 mixamp to the PS4 controller. Chat will work perfectly once you do.




Thanks for quick reply, It seems I bought the wrong cable I purchased the USB to 3.5mm from astro themselves. never mind ill get the one you suggest, Cheers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The USB to 3.5mm cable is BETTER. How did you get one? I need it. It basically makes the mixamp the soundcard, so no cable is needed from the controller to the RX unit. I need one. Less cables on your end is always better.

I'll see about getting one from Astro when I RMA the A30s which just sound off...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The USB to 3.5mm cable is BETTER. How did you get one? I need it. It basically makes the mixamp the soundcard, so no cable is needed from the controller to the RX unit. I need one. Less cables on your end is always better.
> 
> I'll see about getting one from Astro when I RMA the A30s which just sound off...


I've read that using the USB causes lower chat volume levels. Never tried it myself though so I can't confirm.

Question, does that cable come with the a30 + 5.8 mixamp bundle? I never checked for myself....


----------



## martb

mad lust envy said:


> The USB to 3.5mm cable is BETTER. How did you get one? I need it. It basically makes the mixamp the soundcard, so no cable is needed from the controller to the RX unit. I need one. Less cables on your end is always better.
> 
> I'll see about getting one from Astro when I RMA the A30s which just sound off...




Yes I read on another forum about that cable being the way to go so I ordered one direct from astro by raising a ticket ,unfortunately it just doesn't work I've tried everything today with no luck.


----------



## DADDYDC650

martb said:


> Yes I read on another forum about that cable being the way to go so I ordered one direct from astro by raising a ticket ,unfortunately it just doesn't work I've tried everything today with no luck.


Did you plug the cable directly in the front of your PS4? What settings did you choose under audio?

BTW, did you recently purchase the cable from Astro? I thought they were all out?


----------



## HEFE808

Aloha and thank you for this awesome guide/reviews Mad Lust Envy!

Hello everyone, I was hoping if I could please take a little bit of your time and help me choose which gaming headphone set-up I should buy for my Playstation 4


Option 1:

Sennheiser PC360 w/ Astro Mixamp Pro


Option 2:

Sennheiser PC363D



Anyone's suggestion or input is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance and God bless!


----------



## Brick3

*Does anybody know the ohm of Monster icable 800 and is it a good cable? I couldn't find mediabridge's in my country.*


----------



## Evshrug

Monster makes pretty decent cables, but usually they charge way more than what you get for your money. Mediabridge is just a generic cable, you would probably be fine with something from Monoprice or Amazon Basics if available in your country.


----------



## conquerator2

Or digital cables. Many options on Ebay there. Some are a bit chunky but worked well for me.
I'd also recommend the Nuforce jack-jack cable. A bit pricey but very light and flexible.


----------



## martb

daddydc650 said:


> Did you plug the cable directly in the front of your PS4? What settings did you choose under audio?
> 
> BTW, did you recently purchase the cable from Astro? I thought they were all out?





Yes Directly into the front usb and options chosen were audio priority optical, bitstream dolby 5.1 and chat only selected as per their instructions. No got it about a month ago but been waiting to get a decent mic to try it.

It's strange as the PS4 recognises that I have an headset when I plug it into USB but it doesn't let me chat or hear anyone.


----------



## DADDYDC650

martb said:


> Yes Directly into the front usb and options chosen were audio priority optical, bitstream dolby 5.1 and chat only selected as per their instructions. No got it about a month ago but been waiting to get a decent mic to try it.
> 
> It's strange as the PS4 recognises that I have an headset when I plug it into USB but it doesn't let me chat or hear anyone.


 
 Either that cable is defective which I have my doubts about or it doesn't play nice with the PS4. The Turble Beach PS4 chat cable works great but adds another cord that you have to carry around with you. I find that slightly annoying but I'm usually not walking around when I game and it doesn't get in my way. I was interested in purchasing the Astro PS3/PC chat cable but I doubt Astro still has them in stock and if it's not working for you I doubt it would work for me.


----------



## martb

Ive ordered the Tb chat cable for now so I will just use that and apparently theres an PS4 Firmware update to 1.6 on the 22nd Feb which will hopefully fix some audio problems so ill re-try the other cable after that, Cheers for your help.


----------



## martin vegas

I am choosing a ps4 over the xbox one..it's mainly going to be for battlefield 4 and it looks a bit better on the ps4!


----------



## DADDYDC650

martb said:


> Ive ordered the Tb chat cable for now so I will just use that and apparently theres an PS4 Firmware update to 1.6 on the 22nd Feb which will hopefully fix some audio problems so ill re-try the other cable after that, Cheers for your help.


Got home around 3am, hopped on my PC to game and rock out and just remembered to check the box my 5.8 mixamp amp and a30's came with. Good news is that it does indeed come with the PS3/PC chat cable! Bad news is that chat doesn't work! Tried every setting I could think of. I heard that the next firmware update for the PS4 will include better headset support so hopefully it helps us out. In the meanwhile, I'll be using my TB PS4 chat cable.

MLE, didn't you purchase the a30+ 5.8 mixamp bundle from the MS store? If so, you should have the cable as well.

Update: Tried getting the Astro a30's mic to work with the Astro PS3 chat cable. No go. Maybe I didn't force the Astro PS3 chat cable hard enough into the TX? I'll check it out later. Way too tired.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp 5.8 never came with the ps3 usb to 3.5mm cable. It has always been an accessory you have to pay extra for, and Astro doesnt have it for sale anymore.

So I submitted a ticket for my A30....

Anyone see this?

http://www.astrogaming.com/a38-bluetooth-headset/3AH38-HBW9W-100.html



Doesn't seem to be gaming oriented....

I figured out what's wrong with the A30s. The drivers are mismatched. The bass is leaning considerably towards one side. The sound is also quite diffused... and incoherent. I do hear some potential of satisfying SQ, but just not in this pair. I can HEAR how the A30 is considered to have quite an open sound despite it's closed back design. It's a double edged sword, because it's unfocused...



One thing I will say, the A30s are pretty damn comfy. Even as an on ear, it's easily one of the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn. I guess being so used to my clip ons, having something rest on my ear doesn't bother me unless it's pleather or overly clampy.

Also, in true man form, I didn't read the instructions, and was using the in-line mic instead of the boom mic, since I had the switch on 'B' instead of 'A'. :rolleyes:

The inline mic sounded horrible... boom mic should be MUCH better.


----------



## DADDYDC650

MLE, interesting that the cable never came with yours. Also interesting that some folks got chat working with that particular cable. 

I submitted a ticket to Astro but since I already had the cable without knowing it, their reply won't matter much.

Update: Astro wants $20 for the PS3/PC chat cable. Good thing I already own it...


----------



## martb

Well after reading your post above I tried pushing the 3.5mm jack into the socket harder and 'voila' . There is about a mm of play you have to really force it in but anyhows chat now works. Bit too late to cancel the Tb cable of ebay but at least I will have backup,Again thanks for your help.


----------



## DADDYDC650

martb said:


> Well after reading your post above I tried pushing the 3.5mm jack into the socket harder and 'voila' . There is about a mm of play you have to really force it in but anyhows chat now works. Bit too late to cancel the Tb cable of ebay but at least I will have backup,Again thanks for your help.


Glad to help. I thought something was up when I noticed it wasn't entirely flush against the TX unit but I was a little paranoid about pushing it in even harder at the time. Glad you got it working. Happy gaming!


----------



## Brick3

*Does onyone have owned both mixamp and dss?*
*I have mixamp but i'm wondering if the dss has a better sound quality and does it handle the headphones better like the k702?*
*The mixer and chat functions doesn't matter.*
*So would you recommend buying dss over mixamp?*
*thanks in advance.*


----------



## mebcitadel

Wow, incredible thread.  It's almost hard to sort through the massive amounts of information, which is why I'm posting in that hopes someone will help me out.  I'll try to go in detail...
  
 I purchased a pair of Turtle Beach X41 a few years ago and loved them but they are basically broken now.  Sound crappy, hiss, mic doesn't work, etc.  Since then I've also graduated college and gotten a real job so I have many more options to explore like getting a nicer set but I'd like the same convenience.  I loved that the X41's were wireless and when I played COD I got COUNTLESS kills just for hearing footsteps.  I'd like the same thing, but *better* I guess.  Better quality, better directionality (sound whoring) lol.  I'm sure that the TB X41 are garbage compared to much of what's in here, but there's so much it's a bit overwhelming.  As of right now I am considering the Astro A50, but I wish that the Sennheiser PC360 were wireless.
  
 Is there a better wireless headset than the Astro A50?  Maybe the PLYR 1?  Is there anything better than that?  I would say "money is not an option" but I'd like to spend less than $350-450.
  
 Edit:
  
 I'd also like to clarify that the only part I care about being wireless is the headset to the system/amp, not sure if that matters.  I will also be playing on Xbox One/PS4/Xbox 360


----------



## Evshrug

Where was that sale for the mixamp 5.8?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Where was that sale for the mixamp 5.8?


 
  
 The Microsoft store, but I believe it sold out nope, still in stock with the A30.
  
 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Astro-Gaming-A30-Wireless-System/productID.253782000


----------



## zebus

Mad Lust Envy, I desperately need your help as you are the only person who has had all these headphones on your head.
  
 I bought the Phillips X1 thinking it was the one for me, a good mix between bass and gaming quality. However, I ended up having to return them, I have a large head and there were far from a proper fit, with the outer band smashed against my head there were large gaps between the lower part of the ear cup and my head due to them being unable to wrap around my melon.
  
 To put things in perspective, my previous headset was a PC360 which fit fine extended all the way out, what bassy gaming headphone would work for me? If you have a normal sized head I guess I'm asking, what fit you with lots of room to spare?


----------



## AxelCloris

R7 260X graphics card is a few bucks off today, $119, at Amazon. This supports the new TrueAudio. I think I'll be ordering parts for a cheap PC today.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sapphire-Version-PCI-Express-Graphics-11222-06-20G/dp/B00HJOKCZI/


----------



## Mops123

hi , i need a pair of wireless headphones. i am between logitech g930 and sennshaiser rs160 (they are at the same price at argentina).


----------



## DADDYDC650

mops123 said:


> hi , i need a pair of wireless headphones. i am between logitech g930 and sennshaiser rs160 (they are at the same price at argentina).


The G930's are garbage. They are cheap and if you raise the bass level they distort easily. I haven't used the Sennheiser so I can't comment on those. Check out the reviews over at Amazon.


----------



## roguegeek

mops123 said:


> hi , i need a pair of wireless headphones. i am between logitech g930 and sennshaiser rs160 (they are at the same price at argentina).


 
 You're here, so I'm assuming this is primarily for gaming and positional accuracy?


----------



## Mops123

roguegeek said:


> You're here, so I'm assuming this is primarily for gaming and positional accuracy?


 

 yes


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp 5.8 never came with the ps3 usb to 3.5mm cable. It has always been an accessory you have to pay extra for, and Astro doesnt have it for sale anymore.
> 
> So I submitted a ticket for my A30....
> 
> ...



Talk me OUT of buying one Mad, lol. Kinda wanna try a 5.8, _just because_ I've basically tried everything else. Someday, it might be nice to be "wireless" between me and the screen. Can you plug the chat audio into the Astro from the PS4 controller like an Xbox, or do you have to scour the net for one of those pre-2013 USB cables?

Side note, I'm pretty sure this second Recon3D USB (the one you heard) sounds different than my first one... though I don't know why. Even with the same settings, it sounds more stereo-y than surround, and I prefer the DSS. But my old one (which I sold) was easily preferred over this same DSS. I've been testing it a lot (with CoD Ghosts, CoD4, and Reach mostly), trying to hear if it was just something about my ear health or which headphone I'm using, but I hear surround better with the DSS right now with either AKG headphone. It's just weird to me... but then, I think you felt that the built-in THX that came with your laptop had a better surround effect than you remembered when you borrowed this Recon3D USB.


----------



## conquerator2

Could anyone post their audio settings for the Xonar U3 interface?
 Been using an older version with an older UI and the settings didn't really allow much adjusting.
 Now with the software updated, it's the new one with different DH modes and multiple channels settings, etc,,,
 I remember people have been using the DH mode 2 with 8 channels toggled I think but if anyone can post it again for the last time here, that'd be awesome.
 Thanks!


----------



## DADDYDC650

evshrug said:


> Talk me OUT of buying one Mad, lol. Kinda wanna try a 5.8, _just because_ I've basically tried everything else. Someday, it might be nice to be "wireless" between me and the screen. Can you plug the chat audio into the Astro from the PS4 controller like an Xbox, or do you have to scour the net for one of those pre-2013 USB cables?
> 
> Side note, I'm pretty sure this second Recon3D USB (the one you heard) sounds different than my first one... though I don't know why. Even with the same settings, it sounds more stereo-y than surround, and I prefer the DSS. But my old one (which I sold) was easily preferred over this same DSS. I've been testing it a lot (with CoD Ghosts, CoD4, and Reach mostly), trying to hear if it was just something about my ear health or which headphone I'm using, but I hear surround better with the DSS right now with either AKG headphone. It's just weird to me... but then, I think you felt that the built-in THX that came with your laptop had a better surround effect than you remembered when you borrowed this Recon3D USB.


 
 I purchased the 5.8 mixamp + a30's from the Microsoft Store. It came with the PS3/PC chat cable. I don't know if I got lucky or not but I've read that Astro eventually did include them. The only cable I have connected is my V-MODA BoomPro that goes from my X1 headphones to the wireless RX. I clip the RX to my pants so it's never in the way. For $109.99, I think it's a steal. You won't be able to find them for that price for much longer and I haven't heard about any other wireless options that are compatible with any headphones or headsets.


----------



## Evshrug

Crap DDC, and I just got paid too...


----------



## DADDYDC650

evshrug said:


> Crap DDC, and I just got paid too...


 

 It's only paper....


----------



## Evshrug

HNNNNNGH!

boredom is dangerous... I spend more money on my days off. But I haven't pulled the trigger, cuz I Truely don't _need_ this.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> HNNNNNGH!
> 
> boredom is dangerous... I spend more money on my days off. But I haven't pulled the trigger, cuz I* Truely don't need this*.




Reason why I haven't pulled the trigger...


----------



## mebcitadel

What are the best wireless for gaming?

Astro A50 or Sennheiser 220????


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> HNNNNNGH!
> 
> boredom is dangerous... I spend more money on my days off. But I haven't pulled the trigger, cuz I Truely don't _need_ this.


 
  
 I can't tell you how many times that exact thinking has stopped me from making a purchase. Be it audio or other, when you step back and think about why you'd be buying it and the only reason is "I want it" then it's usually best to hold off. But sometimes you just REALLY want something. That's how I ended up with the HD650s and a few other items.


----------



## chicolom

mebcitadel said:


> What are the best wireless for gaming?
> 
> Astro A50 or Sennheiser 220????


 
  
 I"m sure the 220 is better.  Is the one wire going to the wireless mixamp really too much?


----------



## x7007

~~Hey, I wanted to ask you, if I have the DT990 600ohms headphones and I have the Xonar Phoebus, I want to use the Dolby headphones surround and it is Enabled on the DHTv4 menu.
  
  
 1. How can I use it for games, do I need to select 7.1 in-game menu Stereo or Headphones ?
  
 2. For example BF4 , Hi-Fi and Surround, is that the correct settings, or Hi-Fi Stereo ?
  
 3. In movies, how is it possible to get surround in PotPlayer , PowerDVD13 and arcsoft Therater .


----------



## Makiah S

so... any one ever try gaming the the HE 4? I know the Dt 990 was a decent gaming phone...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You mean besides me, riiiiight?


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> You mean besides me, riiiiight?


 
 I know you did so TELL me about it :3


----------



## AxelCloris

mshenay said:


> I know you did so TELL me about it :3


 
  
 He already did.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-updated-1-27-2014-monster-dna-pro-added-edits#post_7208658


----------



## Evshrug

daddydc650 said:


> I purchased the 5.8 mixamp + a30's from the Microsoft Store. It came with the PS3/PC chat cable. I don't know if I got lucky or not but I've read that Astro eventually did include them. The only cable I have connected is my V-MODA BoomPro that goes from my X1 headphones to the wireless RX. I clip the RX to my pants so it's never in the way. For $109.99, I think it's a steal. You won't be able to find them for that price for much longer and I haven't heard about any other wireless options that are compatible with any headphones or headsets.







mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp 5.8 never came with the ps3 usb to 3.5mm cable. It has always been an accessory you have to pay extra for, and Astro doesnt have it for sale anymore.




I caved 
Something that seems to be happening more often lately... Gonna have to sell off excess stuff. But now, I've got the A30 bundle on the way! I really care about the wireless Mixamp, but I'm mildly curious about the A30 comfort too. Didn't Mad prefer the A30 frequency curve over the A40 anyway?


----------



## mebcitadel

So correct me if I'm wrong, but the Sennheiser 220 are better for totally wireless gaming than Astro A50s? I need wireless as well. Could anyone explain how I'd set this up on 360/ps4/x1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I caved
> Something that seems to be happening more often lately... Gonna have to sell off excess stuff. But now, I've got the A30 bundle on the way! I really care about the wireless Mixamp, but I'm mildly curious about the A30 comfort too. Didn't Mad prefer the A30 frequency curve over the A40 anyway?




The A30s I got sound like utter garbage, so it wasnt me. I dont like it at all. I still have to send mine back since they sound like they're mismatched.


----------



## tsine

What do you suggest to pair my akg k701 for the best positional (accurate) audio in bf4 ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

tsine said:


> What do you suggest to pair my akg k701 for the best positional (accurate) audio in bf4 ?
> 
> Thanks




What do you mean by "pair?" 

Do you mean amp? Sound card? Is it for PC? Console?

Be specific, please. This is why many people's questions get overlooked... and they wonder why no one has responded...


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I caved
> Something that seems to be happening more often lately... Gonna have to sell off excess stuff. But now, I've got the A30 bundle on the way! I really care about the wireless Mixamp, but I'm mildly curious about the A30 comfort too. Didn't Mad prefer the A30 frequency curve over the A40 anyway?




Weak, weak man...

I'm still holding out as long as I can lol

I still have to get my 612 reterminated and maybe get some memory foam pads. The stock pads have softened up a bit... so my interest in the 712 pads is purely sonic based.

What are you thinking about selling? Hmmmmmmm?!?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> What are you thinking about selling? Hmmmmmmm?!?


 
  
 And the buzzards are circling.


----------



## roguegeek

x7007 said:


> ~~Hey, I wanted to ask you, if I have the DT990 600ohms headphones and I have the Xonar Phoebus, I want to use the Dolby headphones surround and it is Enabled on the DHTv4 menu.
> 
> 
> 1. How can I use it for games, do I need to select 7.1 in-game menu Stereo or Headphones ?
> ...


 
 2. BF4 needs to be set in HiFi with stereo mode. Done and done. Dolby Headphone will take care of the rest.


----------



## mebcitadel

Ok well maybe I should be very specific:

I need wireless. I think the Turtle Beach X41 sounded good until they broke. Are the Astro A50 better to justify the price for gaming purposes only?


----------



## tsine

I have a gaming pc and i am playing bf4 most of the time .So i would like to pair my akg k701 with a good sound card with build in headphone amp OR a sound card + external amp OR external sound card +external amp . One of these three if something is better that the other.
  
  
 I would like good music playback but first i would like to have the best positioning audio when playing bf4 .
  
 I dont like mess 3d sound with unspecific positions of tanks and helicopter and also loss of any footsteps .


----------



## Change is Good

tsine said:


> I have a gaming pc and i am playing bf4 most of the time .So i would like to pair my akg k701 with a good sound card with build in headphone amp OR a sound card + external amp OR external sound card +external amp . One of these three if something is better that the other.
> 
> 
> I would like good music playback but first i would like to have the best positioning audio when playing bf4 .
> ...


 
  
@roguegeek? This is your specialty, isn't it? I'm on PS4 so I can't really help, here...


----------



## tsine

"specialty" i like that


----------



## roguegeek

tsine said:


> I have a gaming pc and i am playing bf4 most of the time .So i would like to pair my akg k701 with a good sound card with build in headphone amp OR a sound card + external amp OR external sound card +external amp . One of these three if something is better that the other.
> 
> 
> I would like good music playback but first i would like to have the best positioning audio when playing bf4 .
> ...


 
 You have a couple different directions you can go. It's good you're talking about amping because the K701 does need some extra juice to get the most out of it. You'll also need a sound card with the codecs (CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone) needed to get proper positional audio into your headphones.
  
 My current gaming setup is a K702 AE amped by a FiiO E09K and then plugged into an X-Fi Titanium HD sound card. The E09K and X-Fi Titanium HD are a relatively cheap solution. You could also look the way of the Xonar STX as it has Dolby Headphone and a headphone amp built onto the card itself. It's a nice card, but not the best amp. Should still provide adequate power to the Q701.
  
 Those are specific solutions for about $180 each. You could go cheaper, but these are really nice solutions for the price. What's your budget?


----------



## Change is Good

I can comment on external amping. The Matrix M-Stage pairs extremely well with all open AKGs I've tried... and would be a much better choice than the E9k... if his budget allows.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> I can comment on external amping. The Matrix M-Stage pairs extremely well with all open AKGs I've tried... and would be a much better choice than the E9k... if his budget allows.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW


 
 Heard so many great things about that amp. May look into it myself. It's a nice low risk price.


----------



## tsine

Thanks for this solutions . My budget is not going to be as much high a Matrix M-stage + audio card goes . What about something like the new sound blaster ZXR with and amp output of 300ohm ?I dont have any clue how good the 3d sound of the new Z-series are but with the Z and the zx and the zxr have an 300ohm amp built in


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> Heard so many great things about that amp. May look into it myself. It's a nice low risk price.


 
  
 The price is an absolute steal, too! I paid $290 when I first got mine, a year ago...


----------



## roguegeek

tsine said:


> Thanks for this solutions . My budget is not going to be as much high a Matrix M-stage + audio card goes . What about something like the new sound blaster ZXR with and amp output of 300ohm ?I dont have any clue how good the 3d sound of the new Z-series are but with the Z and the zx and the zxr have an 300ohm amp built in


 
 That's another all-in-one solution that could potentially work. I'm not so certain about the amping capabilities and I'm not seeing a proper codec in the specs, but it might work. It needs verification beyond me. Generally, on-board solutions are not very good, but check out and ask in Nameless' thread for PC gaming.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/
  
 They're most likely going to refer you to the X-Fi and Xonar cards as well, but it doesn't hurt to get the questions in front of more eyes.


----------



## Murder Mike

tsine said:


> Thanks for this solutions . My budget is not going to be as much high a Matrix M-stage + audio card goes . What about something like the new sound blaster ZXR with and amp output of 300ohm ?I dont have any clue how good the 3d sound of the new Z-series are but with the Z and the zx and the zxr have an 300ohm amp built in


 
  
 I wouldn't bother with the ZXR alone. You could get a Sound Blaster Z OEM (SBX Pro Studio) and a separate amp for about the same price as a ZXR and have a better setup. You could even use a cheaper card like the Xonar DG/DGX (Dolby Headphone) or X-fi Titanium (CMSS-3D) and that would work too.


----------



## tsine

I currently using a DGX but dolby headphone is not even close to accurate positioning audio . I am using 64ohm amp with Razer 7.1 surround program and works mediocre . 
  
 Yes i tried many settings and with Dolby and with Razer and many EQ's so the best so far is DGX 64 ohm with razer 7.1 . Razer gives me a good positioning but the footsteps and the guns are a little borring and not so bright and its easy to loose their sound when you are playing in 64 players with a lot of background exlosions and stuff .I managed to fix it with EQ's but its still not so great 
  
 So i thought their will be something better than what dgx with razer 7.1 surround will do in bf4


----------



## SaLX

You're using Dolby Headphone AND Razer Surround?? Please rephrase your question tsine ) I didn't know you could do that.


----------



## tsine

I am not using them at the same time ofcourse ...I used dolby and surround sound was not great .....so i disabled it and now i am using razer 7.1 fod surround sound.Its a software that uses your aound card and gives you suround sound


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> And the buzzards are circling. :wink_face:



He wants my first-batch E12.



change is good said:


> Weak, weak man...
> 
> I'm still holding out as long as I can lol
> 
> ...



I'm not sure yet, I have a *demo headphone* on the way that may give me a direction, but... it's sticking with me how satisfied I was with just the Q701 plugged straight into the Omni.



mebcitadel said:


> Ok well maybe I should be very specific:
> 
> I need wireless. I think the Turtle Beach X41 sounded good until they broke. Are the Astro A50 better to justify the price for gaming purposes only?



Astro A50 is a bassy, boomy mess, the bass bleeds over details and sense of footsteps. The first page of the guide has a review on it. Honestly, just see if you could live with a mixamp 5.8 (wireless system, I just bought one from the Microsoft store, the black one in a combo with an Astro A30 is over 50% off), that's the best/most versatile option right now. Unfortunately, the XB1 is currently incompatible with optical-input headphone systems right now (at least for surround), but the mixamp 5.8 works with anything else. And the Mixamp 5.8 has a receiver that any headphone and mic can plug into. 
Another option I haven't heard but ought to be at least as good as an Astro or Turtle Beach, would be Creative's Recon3D wireless bundle... That works with PC, Mac, PS3 & 4, Xbox and Xbox 360, almost everything except the proprietary XB1




tsine said:


> Thanks for this solutions . My budget is not going to be as much high a Matrix M-stage + audio card goes . What about something like the new sound blaster ZXR with and amp output of 300ohm ?I dont have any clue how good the 3d sound of the new Z-series are but with the Z and the zx and the zxr have an 300ohm amp built in




The ZxR has the same opamp used in the FiiO E09k. It's implemented differently, but it ought to be a great stop unless/until you want to scale up with summit-fi gear. Honestly, I can't shake how good things were sounding last night with my Q701 plugged straight into the humble-but-capable Omni – so I would suggest an Omni and AKG K612 first, see how you like it, and you can always tack on an external DAC (with optical input) and Amp later. Spread out your investments while you get to learn and understand your tastes.


----------



## jumper

Can somebody please advise on proper gain settings to choose for the Objective 2 when double amping with the mixamp pro? This is to drive some Q701 or K712. I read the mixamp is 70mW at 32ohm and I also came across Astro stating it maxes out at 1.6 volts. Although I'd like to keep the mixamp at 50% volume or less to prevent excessive hiss.

Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

Just a little eye candy...


----------



## AxelCloris

Nah, eye candy would be you doing your best Vanna White for us with the headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Nah, eye candy would be you doing your best Vanna White for us with the headphones.



Lol! Change's post made me want to take a pic of my setup*s*, but yours made me want to draw a picture of candy that looks like eyes.

Feel like playing some Borderlands 2?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Lol! Change's post made me want to take a pic of my setup*s*, but yours made me want to draw a picture of candy that looks like eyes.
> 
> Feel like playing some Borderlands 2?


 
  
 Absolutely! I'm currently working on a news release for the website but once I get it done and submitted to my editor I'll give you a shout.


----------



## SaLX

@Jumper.. the O2 effectively has 4 gain settings I believe; and they are jumper selectable. Sort of 2x or 6x, or 1x and 3x (some variation on the theme). 1x is very probably your safest bet. Check it out.. at least you can test it and the unit will give you plenty leeway unlike a Magni. You can even order one in that config. Hopefully somebody can weigh in here who's used it.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The A30s I got sound like utter garbage, so it wasnt me. I dont like it at all. I still have to send mine back since they sound like they're mismatched.


 
 Hopefully you get your replacements soon because I want to read your review on them. I'm loving mine. They aren't as good as the X1's obviously but for the price I paid, they sound great.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Absolutely! I'm currently working on a news release for the website but once I get it done and submitted to my editor I'll give you a shout.



Ok, I'm just trying to shake off a sudden wave of sleepiness... Been falling asleep with my finger on my phone keyboard during my last few posts. Typed some odd stuff.



daddydc650 said:


> Hopefully you get your replacements soon because I want to read your review on them. I'm loving mine. They aren't as good as the X1's obviously but for the price I paid, they sound great.



I'm not Mad, and I expect something like the CAL to outperform them, but I'll write a mini-review once mine arrive


----------



## jumper

salx said:


> @Jumper.. the O2 effectively has 4 gain settings I believe; and they are jumper selectable. Sort of 2x or 6x, or 1x and 3x (some variation on the theme). 1x is very probably your safest bet. Check it out.. at least you can test it and the unit will give you plenty leeway unlike a Magni. You can even order one in that config. Hopefully somebody can weigh in here who's used it.




Thanks for the reply. If you don't mind my asking, how did you arrive at the 1x suggestion - just curious. Also, I'm not aware of dip switches for the O2 - just the external in/out button selecting hi/low gain. I know you can pick the two gain levels for that switch when ordering the O2.


----------



## Evshrug

^the 62 Ohm AKGs generally need only slightly more volume than a 32 ohm portable headphone, so you don't need extra gain really. Adding higher gain might make you be in a bad (real low) spot on the volume knob, and some other things to the sound character that I honestly forget at the moment.

However... I HAVE woken up enough to get on BL2!
You coming Axel?


----------



## SaLX

Research the O2.. those jumper settings are there all right, and I'd go for the O2 anytime over the Magni. 1x will allways the best setting to go for, but the gain might not be enough. Then go for 2.5x gain.


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Be specific, please. This is why many people's questions get overlooked... and they wonder why no one has responded...


 
  
 x2
  
 New members often post short vague questions and then expect to get lengthy detailed responses. 
  
 People, be detailed and specific with your questions if you want to get helpful replies.  We can't help you if your question is too vague!


----------



## kirayamato

hi guys out of all of these what is the best i can get that is avaiable can anyone give me a amazon link also heard about the senheiser hd 800 being really good are they for competitive gaming i have the senheiser pc 360 right now but is damaged so wanna get a new headset/headphone what are the best options i dont have any budget just wanna get the best possible


----------



## kman1211

kirayamato said:


> hi guys out of all of these what is the best i can get that is avaiable can anyone give me a amazon link also heard about the senheiser hd 800 being really good are they for competitive gaming i have the senheiser pc 360 right now but is damaged so wanna get a new headset/headphone what are the best options i dont have any budget just wanna get the best possible


 
 The Sennheiser HD 800 and AKG K812 are basically the two soundstage kings out right now, so either one of those will probably be the best possible headphones for gaming right now.


----------



## Change is Good

kirayamato said:


> hi guys out of all of these what is the best i can get that is avaiable can anyone give me a amazon link also heard about the senheiser hd 800 being really good are they for competitive gaming i have the senheiser pc 360 right now but is damaged so wanna get a new headset/headphone what are the best options i dont have any budget just wanna get the best possible




No budget? Best possible for competitive? 

HD800, K812...

Stax?


----------



## roguegeek

kirayamato said:


> hi guys out of all of these what is the best i can get that is avaiable can anyone give me a amazon link also heard about the senheiser hd 800 being really good are they for competitive gaming i have the senheiser pc 360 right now but is damaged so wanna get a new headset/headphone what are the best options i dont have any budget just wanna get the best possible


 
 The best you could get? Yeah, I'm sure the HD 800 is _way_ up there, but you're willing to spend that kind of money on a headphone for just competitive gaming? What's your budget?


----------



## jumper

Thanks again SaLX and Evshrug. A follow up question though... How about the O2's gain settings in relation to the Mixamp - meaning the O2's standard 2.5x gain is stated to be meant for 2v desktop sources and the 6.5x gain for .5v portable sources. The Mixamp is rated at 1.6v, but is that not at max volume? I don't know that running the Mixamp full out is the right way to set it - I think around halfway or a little less would be ideal to reduce hiss. So at 50% volume its voltage would be down to around .8v, which I believe would be suitable for the 6.5x gain setting on the O2 from what I've read. Then don't forget the power draw from using a mic, which I would like to do. I will order the O2 with the 1x/2.5x gain option since that is the recommendation I've gotten here but please let me know if my concerns above make any sense.


----------



## raxx

What are these AKG K812 people speak of? I don't see them on Amazon or the AKG site.


----------



## miceblue

raxx said:


> What are these AKG K812 people speak of? I don't see them on Amazon or the AKG site.



http://www.akg.com/k812-1308.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1014352-REG/akg_k812_3458z00010_k812_reference_headphones.html
?


----------



## Change is Good

raxx said:


> What are these AKG K812 people speak of? I don't see them on Amazon or the AKG site.


 
  
 http://www.razordogaudio.com/collections/akg-by-harman/products/akg-k812-pro-superior-reference-headphones
  
 Use coupon *K812PRO *for $200 off...


----------



## chicolom

raxx said:


> What are these AKG K812 people speak of? I don't see them on Amazon or the AKG site.


 
  
 Really? 
  
 First result when I google "AKG K812":
 http://www.akg.com/k812-1308.html


----------



## raxx

miceblue said:


> http://www.akg.com/k812-1308.html
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1014352-REG/akg_k812_3458z00010_k812_reference_headphones.html
> ?


 
 Ah ok I was looking at http://us.akg.com/akg-homepage-us.html by accident. They seem a bit pricey for me


----------



## raxx

chicolom said:


> Really?
> 
> First result when I google "AKG K812":
> http://www.akg.com/k812-1308.html


 
  
 Yea really. I ended up on the wrong akg webpage. Hope you aren't mad bro.


----------



## chicolom

Nah brah.


----------



## Change is Good

raxx said:


> Yea really. I ended up on the wrong akg webpage. Hope you aren't mad bro.


 
  


chicolom said:


> Nah brah.


 
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
  


Spoiler: Spoiler!


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Spoiler: Spoiler!


 
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## raxx




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No....
_
I'm_

Mad...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> No....
> 
> _I'm_
> 
> Mad...


 
  
 And so lustful!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> And so lustful!




I envy him...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> No....
> 
> _I'm_
> 
> Mad...


 
  
 Don't get _fancy_.


----------



## Evshrug

Cut that out or I'll kick all a ya in the shin!
Christ... O 'pher Pete's sake.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Don't get _fancy_.  :rolleyes:







I REALLY need to find the motivation to send the A30s to Astro...


----------



## tsine

evshrug said:


> The ZxR has the same opamp used in the FiiO E09k. It's implemented differently, but it ought to be a great stop unless/until you want to scale up with summit-fi gear. Honestly, I can't shake how good things were sounding last night with my Q701 plugged straight into the humble-but-capable Omni – so I would suggest an Omni and AKG K612 first, see how you like it, and you can always tack on an external DAC (with optical input) and Amp later. Spread out your investments while you get to learn and understand your tastes.


 
 So you are saying that its good option to go for the ZXR and not for sound card+external amp ?
  
 The omni sound card is any good ? For surround sound and amplification ? Positioning audio 3d surround  ?


----------



## chicolom

tsine said:


> So you are saying that its good option to go for the ZXR and not for sound card+external amp ?
> 
> The omni sound card is any good ? For surround sound and amplification ? Positioning audio 3d surround  ?


 
  
  
  
 A Sound Blaster Z OEM + an external amp will cost about the same as the ZxR, but will give you a nicer amp and more flexibility.
  
 The Omni uses the same surround DSP as all the other Z cards (SBX Pro).  It just comes in an external laptop-friendly package.


----------



## tsine

So the dac and all the electric components are the same ?


----------



## x7007

Can smeone help me with DHTv4 to use for movies ?
  
 How can I configure my Movie Players : PotPlayer, PowerDVD13, Arcsoft Theater , for hearing Headphones Surround with DHTv4 ?
  
 I have DT990 600Ohms.
  
 the movies I watch are DTS , DTS-HD MA 5.1/7.1
  
 Do I need different setting in the movie player for 5.1 and 7.1 sound ?


----------



## jumper

jumper said:


> Thanks again SaLX and Evshrug. A follow up question though... How about the O2's gain settings in relation to the Mixamp - meaning the O2's standard 2.5x gain is stated to be meant for 2v desktop sources and the 6.5x gain for .5v portable sources. The Mixamp is rated at 1.6v, but is that not at max volume? I don't know that running the Mixamp full out is the right way to set it - I think around halfway or a little less would be ideal to reduce hiss. So at 50% volume its voltage would be down to around .8v, which I believe would be suitable for the 6.5x gain setting on the O2 from what I've read. Then don't forget the power draw from using a mic, which I would like to do. I will order the O2 with the 1x/2.5x gain option since that is the recommendation I've gotten here but please let me know if my concerns above make any sense.


 
  
 I just wanted to reformulate my question for the sake of clarity... I'd like to source match the gain options of the O2 I'm ordering with the needs of the Mixamp.  I read the Mixamp is USB powered and maxes out at 1.6v (70mW @ 32ohm).  If the sweet spot on the Mixamp's volume dial is around 50% would the voltage not also be cut almost in half?  I would think gain needs to be higher than 2.5x to match up around .8v from the Mixamp.  I've read the 2.5x gain from the O2 is for desktop 2v sources and the high gain option is for lower level sources around .5v, which it looks like the Mixamp would be if used at around 50% volume.  My concern with selecting 1x/2.5x is not having enough gain when using the Mixamp at 50% plus powering a mic.  Is my thinking correct?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Murder Mike

jumper said:


> Is my thinking correct?
> 
> Thanks!


 
 You're thinking about this way too much in my opinion. Play around with it when you get it and go from there.


----------



## chicolom

tsine said:


> So the dac and all the electric components are the same ?


 
  
 Between...the Omni and the Z?  No, the specs are a little different with the Z having a higher SnR (116dB vs the 100dB on Omni) and the Z DAC goes to 192kHz (not that that matters).
  
 They have the same surround DSP though.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Philips X1 down to $219.99 and falling.... X2 coming soon perhaps?


----------



## Change is Good

daddydc650 said:


> Philips X1 down to $219.99 and falling.... X2 coming soon perhaps?




Eventually it will get down to that $150 promotion price. Until then, one can only speculate.


----------



## rudyae86

If it drops to 150...i might buy another lol. Gonna need a back up for years to come lol


----------



## Evshrug

tsine said:


> So the dac and all the electric components are the same ?




The DAC and electronic components are probably different, but going from the Z to the Omni they sounded pretty comparable. I'd say both are good options, choose based on price and internal vs external needs.

One downside, for ME, when I played borderlands last night, there was a regular popping noise whenever I had the mic enabled. Poor AxelCloris... he had to hear it too. I'm going to contact Creative about it.


*Mad,*
Just do it, easier than returning headphones. Why should you hold on to defective junk?


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> I REALLY need to find the motivation to send the A30s to Astro...


 

 How about ordering the a30 + 5.8 from the Microsoft Store, switching headsets and then returning it. They do free returns and the headphones have no serial number. Just a thought.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I'm considering purchasing the new Gold PlayStation 4 wireless bluetooth Headset for $99. If I do, I'll most likely return the Astro 5.8 mixamp + a30's since I would have no need for them. I'm guessing the combo of the X1's + 5.8 mixamp would sound better than the Gold PS4 headset but who knows by how much. The inferior sound (no hissing is a +) would be made up by the fact that the PS4 headset is completely wireless, easy to connect to my PS4 and the battery should last longer. The X1's would be strictly for PC gaming if I go this route. What to do...


----------



## Change is Good

I've read the PULSE was no slouch, itself. If you do get them, you should send em in to Mad for review.....


----------



## Evshrug

Interestingly I also just read about the Playstation Gold... Nice integration, Sony has a good audio pedigree, but construction looks cheap. A step down from what I'm used to.

Side note, you could also use the PS Gold for PC or mobile use, it has an optional 3.5mm plug and might even allow Bluetooth.


----------



## DADDYDC650

evshrug said:


> Interestingly I also just read about the Playstation Gold... Nice integration, Sony has a good audio pedigree, but construction looks cheap. A step down from what I'm used to.
> 
> Side note, you could also use the PS Gold for PC or mobile use, it has an optional 3.5mm plug and might even allow Bluetooth.


 
 It's supposed to have better build quality compared to older Sony headsets. I like the mixamp 5.8 and the ability to use any headset but it's not completely wireless, the batteries don't last long at all, there' s a good amount of hissing and when I use the PS3/PC chat cable, the chat isn't very loud unless I lower the game sound to the point of not being very immersive and vice versa.


----------



## Evshrug

Hopefully the hissing will be less of an issue with my AKGs, I notice a little more hiss in devices with my more sensitive headphones than with the AKG's.

Wow, it's been a long time since I've felt buyer's remorse... and I haven't even received the product yet!


----------



## DADDYDC650

evshrug said:


> Hopefully the hissing will be less of an issue with my AKGs, I notice a little more hiss in devices with my more sensitive headphones than with the AKG's.
> 
> Wow, it's been a long time since I've felt buyer's remorse... and I haven't even received the product yet!


 
 I might have sounded a little harsh towards the 5.8 mixamp. It actually sounds great for a wireless device and you probably aren't going to hear much hissing at all during gameplay. It's just that when I'm in a party chat or trying to hear other people talk, their voices are hard for me to hear unless I lower the game volume which then makes it hard for me to hear details like footsteps in fps like COD: Ghost. You can raise the overall volume but then you'll hear even more hissing. If you are just having fun then I don't think you will mind much but if you are trying to be competitive it might annoy you. If you want chat to be louder, you can bypass the PS3/PC chat cable and use the TB PS4 chat cable instead. Only problem is that you'll now have two cables going into the RX unit instead of one.
  
 I've yet to decide on if I'm going to stick with the 5.8 mixamp or not. My sister is going to purchase the Gold PS4 headset on day 1 so I think I'll try it out at her place before I make my decision.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm just a little bummed because now I'm remembering why I chose the Recon3D USB in the first place. I already have a pretty good setup for adjusting game and chat balance, except for one game: Halo 4. I can't adjust Reach's game volume either but the default volume is fine actually.

In the past, quiet hiss had bothered me even while playing, and I've talked repeatedly and long about how wireless systems are a compromise and usually use budget DACs, and now I'll probably HAVE to keep my E12 to have a tidy system to use with my K712's, and...

I hope I'm wrong. I'm pleased enough with Bluetooth streaming audio built-in to my Volkswagen, so hopefully the Mixamp 5.8 scales with damping. But basically I think that I'm going to end up dreaming about a FiiO device again. Everyone, sign the petition!!!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio/60_30#post_10214395


----------



## chicolom

I don't think the _w__ireless _component of the Mixamp 5.8 is what causes the hiss. 
  
 I think the hiss is caused by a less than perfect SnR, same as with devices like the DSS, and the 2013 mixamp.   The wireless part of it works great and sounds, to my ears, undetectable and identical to wired devices.  Perhaps when you turn the volume way up it becomes audible, but I'm not sure if that's because it's wireless or just because the amp is a bit noisy.


----------



## benbenkr

change is good said:


> I've read the PULSE was no slouch, itself. If you do get them, you should send em in to Mad for review.....


 
  
 Well, except the Sony Pulse has pretty poor built quality. Just do a google search and you'll see numerous, uncountable complaints about the side cracking (yes, it's 10x worse than the HD558 cracking fiasco a few years back), pleather tearing within 6 months, and dead battery within 2 months (my review unit actually died in less than 20 days, go figure). Also, Sony's own VSS is very similar to DPLIIx, upmixing a stereo source into a multi channel source — yeap, which means poor positional cues.
  
 The Pulse are no slouch, very comparable to the CALs and perhaps I'd say even having a slightly wider soundstage than what the CALs offer.... but it all comes with a huge BUT; *it only sounds good when wired to a proper source*.
  
 I expect pretty much the same thing from the Gold headset Sony just announced, since they'll be using the same drivers and the same unreliable pleather earpads. $100 may seem like a pretty good deal for a versatile headset, working both in wireless and wired mode and comes with a decent mic that doesn't have to jut right out to your face. But it's no use when it breaks within a year, that's a stupid investment.


----------



## DADDYDC650

To be fair, Sony could have improved on the sound by tweaking the drivers and the design could end up being better and more reliable than their last headset.


----------



## benbenkr

daddydc650 said:


> To be fair, Sony could have improved on the sound by tweaking the drivers and the design could end up being better and more reliable than their last headset.


 
  
 Well, on its own I think the Pulse sounds absolutely fine... when wired. If you wanted a CAL with a slightly wider soundstage but remaining most of what it has, the Pulse is the answer. 
  
 There doesn't seem to be enough amplification on wireless mode, leading to muddy details in the mids, dull bass (yeah, dull bass on a closed design advertised to be bassy, go figure) and lacking energy in the treble. It's like putting the volume at 5% through an amp, you hear almost nothing.
  
 Here's hoping the Gold will actually be more reliable (though I know the earpads are going disintegrate regardless after 6 months) of course.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I haven't followed this thread enough.
  
 Why is MLE running something like A30s? What happened?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Still using my MA900s. Only using the A30s when I need to use a headset. Was fed up with the cable clutter of attaching an external mic to the MA900. Of course, I'd prefer using something like the X1+vmoda boom mic cable, or a PC360 or something, but couldn't pass up the very good deal of having the A30+Mixamp for $80. Sold the Mixamp, so basically got the A30s for like $30.


----------



## Guymelef

Sony Gold Wireless are available now on videogamesplus.ca, waiting for reviews/comparatives.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> I haven't followed this thread enough.
> 
> Why is MLE running something like A30s? What happened?




The Microsoft store was (is?) running a sale on new @.@ A30 and Mixamp *5.8* bundles. Mad thought it would be nice to have a spare closed headset... but his A30 arrived with a huge channel imbalance and one ear much quieter/duller.

My bundle arrives Monday. The black A30+wireless Mixamp kit was $109 for me.


----------



## tsine

So after giving a try some new setting that http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound/2595#post_10242252
  
 I have to say i am still not empressed from surround sound . Maybe i am doing something wrong with my DGX settings or i expected too much from surround sound . I am still very confused of which is the best surround sound card maybe i have to give all them a try (buy and sell and buy again  ) so i can have a more detailed opinion on surround sound


----------



## Murder Mike

tsine said:


> I have to say i am still not empressed from surround sound . Maybe i am doing something wrong with my DGX settings or i expected too much from surround sound.


 
  
 Screenshot your sound card settings and windows audio settings, upload them to imgur and post here.


----------



## tsine

EQ at flat setting


----------



## TMRaven

The new sony gold headset seems pretty nifty for 100 dollars.  My friend decided that ultimately he wants the convenience of everything the gold offers over his previous headphones and mixamp.  For 100 dollars and all of those features though, there has to be some caveat.  The build in particular doesn't look too grand.  I guess we'll see once he gets his.


----------



## pack21

To play BF4 in PS4, and being think add a MixAmp + mic
  
  
 Which is best for me, MA900 or X1?
  

 I appreciate a very large, airy and three-dimensional soundstage, and i'm not a bass head.
  
  
 Thx.


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> The Microsoft store was (is?) running a sale on new @.@ A30 and Mixamp *5.8* bundles. Mad thought it would be nice to have a spare closed headset... but his A30 arrived with a huge channel imbalance and one ear much quieter/duller.
> 
> My bundle arrives Monday. The black A30+wireless Mixamp kit was $109 for me.


 
  
 Oh i see, superb deal.


----------



## DADDYDC650

X1. Sounds slightly better and you can replace the stock cable with the V-MODA BoomPro mic which is more convenient than attaching a mic to the MA900 cable.


----------



## Change is Good

pack21 said:


> To play BF4 in PS4, and being think add a MixAmp + mic
> 
> 
> Which is best for me, MA900 or X1?
> ...




I would suggest the K612 or MA900, rather than the X1. On Battlefield, the X1's bass will be too much at times... and will hamper positioning and audio cues... and will also hamper chatting.




daddydc650 said:


> X1. Sounds slightly better and you can replace the stock cable with the V-MODA BoomPro mic which is more convenient than attaching a mic to the MA900 cable.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I respectively disagree. In regards to the X1, I don't find the bass to hamper positioning and audio cues much and I don't think it's very convenient at all to have two cables attached to you while you game. I'm guessing MLE might agree with me there. Besides, I'd rather have a more immersive experience in a game that doesn't allow for the best audio positioning in the first place.
  
 Of course, if the user doesn't care about convenience at all and only cares about positioning, the MA900 or k612 might be a slightly better choice like you mentioned.


----------



## pack21

Thx. 
  
  
 Currently i cant find V-MODA BoomPro mic on EU amazon's. 
  

 Mic cable is no a problem for me, I'm more interested on sound qualities.


----------



## DADDYDC650

pack21 said:


> Thx.
> 
> 
> Currently i cant find V-MODA BoomPro mic on EU amazon's.
> ...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/V-Moda-BoomPro-Headset-Microphone-fr-Detachable-3-5mm-Port-Crossfade-Solo-Studio-/221342066947?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Headsets_Earpieces&hash=item338903e903


----------



## Change is Good

The X1 just didn't work for me on Battlefield, sorry to say. Its U-shaped sound signature made it impossible to chat AND enjoy that immersiveness.

If I can recall, you've mentioned yourself that you have to turn the chat knob, when chatting, to a point where it almost makes the X1 not so fun... correct?

Because of so, it would affect the positioning and audio (granted its already less than average on Battlefield) due to the reduction of the in game volume during chatting. (In my experience)

So yea, for people who play Battlefield (and chat) I will always suggest the MA900 or K612 before the X1.


----------



## DADDYDC650

When I mentioned having issues with chat volume and game sound, it's more of an issue with USB to PS4 connection with the Astro mixamps. It sounds just fine when I use the TB PS4 chat cable. A lot of Astro mixamp/USB headset users have reported the same issues and I doubt they are all using the X1. Hopefully the issue will be addressed in a future PS4 firmware update.
  
 Forgot to mention that I've been using the Astro a30's and chat actually sounded good in BF4 but total crap in COD: Ghost. Same thing with the X1.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> I would suggest the K612 or MA900, rather than the X1. On Battlefield, the X1's bass will be too much at times... and will hamper positioning and audio cues... and will also hamper chatting.


 
 This is actually a really good point. For that game specifically, some of the effects can be quite jarring. It's a big reason why I will use standard foam pads on my K702 AE vs the memory foam. A more neutral signature would, IMO, lend itself better to BF4 vs a warmer one.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> This is actually a really good point. For that game specifically, some of the effects can be quite jarring. It's a big reason why I will use *standard foam pads* on my K702 AE vs the memory foam. A more neutral signature would, IMO, lend itself better to BF4 vs a warmer one.


 
  
 This is why I'm going to order the the angled pads for my K612, rather than the memory foam ones. I was able to try them out, today, as I ordered a pair for a fellow head-fier in Canada (for his K702 AE, as well). The K612 is already a warm headphone, and the angled pads refined that with only marginal changes to its sound.. while also adding some air to its soundstage. It may have even added a _little_ more bass, but I believe its due to its cleaner impact rather than amount.
  
 The memory foam pads may make them TOO warm, I believe... for its purpose. Plus, the angled pads are much cheaper...


----------



## roguegeek

I need to go spend some time reading about the K612. Haven't heard a bad thing said about them yet.


----------



## kman1211

roguegeek said:


> I need to go spend some time reading about the K612. Haven't heard a bad thing said about them yet.


 

 There isn't that many full reviews on them yet. There is a couple comparisons reviews of them with other headphones and probably a couple stand-alone reviews here and there here on head-fi.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> This is why I'm going to order the the angled pads for my K612, rather than the memory foam ones. I was able to try them out, today, as I ordered a pair for a fellow head-fier in Canada (for his K702 AE, as well). The K612 is already a warm headphone, and the angled pads refined that with only marginal changes to its sound.. while also adding some air to its soundstage. It may have even added a _little_ more bass, but I believe its due to its cleaner impact rather than amount.
> 
> The memory foam pads may make them TOO warm, I believe... for its purpose. Plus, the angled pads are much cheaper...


 
 I respectfully disagree I own the K702 angled pads and they alter the sound quite a bit, too much to my liking.
 I'd love to use them, really as they are really comfy but.. they just get too warm IMO.
 The perceived increase in air was little to none and the decrease in imaging clearness was/detail retrieval was easily noticeable.
 IMO, to my ears.
 If the memory pads are even warmer then no way for me :/


----------



## roguegeek

conquerator2 said:


> I respectfully disagree I own the K702 angled pads and they alter the sound quite a bit, too much to my liking.
> I'd love to use them, really as they are really comfy but.. they just get too warm IMO.
> The perceived increase in air was little to none and the decrease in imaging clearness was/detail retrieval was easily noticeable.
> IMO, to my ears.
> If the memory pads are even warmer then no way for me :/


 
 When the K702 AE was released with the memory foam pads, a lot of comparisons between it and the Q701 (the last iteration at the time) and it was pretty clear what changes you got from them. Not discounting your perception at all. Just reiterating there was a large amount of the community who found differences in the signature from one pad to the other. I'm not debating which one is better (the angles pads, dammit!), but there was a clear difference.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> When the K702 AE was released with the memory foam pads, a lot of comparisons between it and the Q701 (the last iteration at the time) and it was pretty clear what changes you got from them. Not discounting your perception at all. Just reiterating there was a large amount of the community who found differences in the signature from one pad to the other. I'm not debating which one is better (the angles pads, dammit!), but there was a clear difference.


 
  
 His impressions are on the K612, so he's comparing the angled pads to the K612 pads (same material but thinner).
  


conquerator2 said:


> I respectfully disagree I own the K702 angled pads and they alter the sound quite a bit, too much to my liking.
> I'd love to use them, really as they are really comfy but.. they just get too warm IMO.
> The perceived increase in air was little to none and the decrease in imaging clearness was/detail retrieval was easily noticeable.
> IMO, to my ears.
> If the memory pads are even warmer then no way for me :/


 
  
 The time I spent with the angled pads wasn't long enough to critique, so you may be right. Either way, I liked the _change_ enough to order a pair of my own 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And you're right. If you found the angled pads to sound too warm on the K612, then the memory pads are a no no for you.


----------



## DADDYDC650

My Astro 5.8 RX unit dies out quickly using AAA batteries with a 7 year shelf-life from Costco. I'm talking around 3 hours of usage. Is this normal?


----------



## SoConfused

N/A


----------



## tsine

CMSS-3D seems the best so far of what i hear on youtube videos . I will buy an x-fi titanium HD maybe 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA


----------



## 1llest

daddydc650 said:


> My Astro 5.8 RX unit dies out quickly using AAA batteries with a 7 year shelf-life from Costco. I'm talking around 3 hours of usage. Is this normal?




I was getting about 4hrs from an Energizer batt. I just kept it plugged in using USB.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> My Astro 5.8 RX unit dies out quickly using AAA batteries with a 7 year shelf-life from Costco. I'm talking around 3 hours of usage. Is this normal?




Buy the rechargeable battery pack for the 5.8 on Ebay. problem solved. It charges through the micro usb, which is SUPER convenient.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-for-Astro-Gaming-wireless-MixAmp-5-8-RX-3ABAT-XXT9W-929-/251093901067?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3a765cdf0b

Got that same one, and have zero issues.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Buy the rechargeable battery pack for the 5.8 on Ebay. problem solved. It charges through the micro usb, which is SUPER convenient.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-for-Astro-Gaming-wireless-MixAmp-5-8-RX-3ABAT-XXT9W-929-/251093901067?pt=US_Rechargeable_Batteries&hash=item3a765cdf0b
> 
> Got that same one, and have zero issues.


I know about the battery pack butI just don't think it should be dying so quickly which leads me to believe that something is wrong. I might go ahead and order another one as a replacement. That's if I don't end up returning it and going with the new Gold Playstation 4 headset.


----------



## Makiah S

So the Monster DNA doesn't suck and you like it more than the X1 maybe :O...  not bad I'll never support that company :3 but I'm happy to hear they are at LEAST brining some decent souding quality to the masses


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

daddydc650 said:


> I know about the battery pack butI just don't think it should be dying so quickly which leads me to believe that something is wrong. I might go ahead and order another one as a replacement. That's if I don't end up returning it and going with the new Gold Playstation 4 headset.




Nothing is wrong with it. The Mixamp 5.8 literally eats through batteries, hence why you'll want to get the pack. I thought I could live with recharging my eneloops while not playing, but it became quite a hassle, as the 5.8 kept dying, and the recharge rate of the eneloops was way too long (double the hassle, as you had to remove them from the Mixamp to charge them). The battery pack lasts awhile, and you can recharge as you play too. More than worth it.

As for the DNA Pro, it's not a decent sounding headphone. It's a *fantastic* sounding one. If they can get the next version to be comfortable, and extend more for larger heads, it'd easily be among my top faves of all time. The sound quality is that good for the price.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Nothing is wrong with it. The Mixamp 5.8 literally eats through batteries, hence why you'll want to get the pack. I thought I could live with recharging my eneloops while not playing, but it became quite a hassle, as the 5.8 kept dying, and the recharge rate of the eneloops was way too long (double the hassle, as you had to remove them from the Mixamp to charge them). The battery pack lasts awhile, and you can recharge as you play too. More than worth it.


An Astro rep said that it's supposed to last 7 hours with batteries and 17 hours using the battery pack. I'm guessing that's BS...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm pretty sure they rate it in the most convenient situations, as in low volume, etc. No batteries have lasted that long for me with either the first or second 5.8. The battery pack lasts long enough for a days worth of gaming, and it charges quickly too. You're literally throwing money at the 5.8 if you use standard batteries. Buy the pack. Just do it.


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> Nothing is wrong with it. The Mixamp 5.8 literally eats through batteries, hence why you'll want to get the pack. I thought I could live with recharging my eneloops while not playing, but it became quite a hassle, as the 5.8 kept dying, and the recharge rate of the eneloops was way too long (double the hassle, as you had to remove them from the Mixamp to charge them). The battery pack lasts awhile, and you can recharge as you play too. More than worth it.
> 
> As for the DNA Pro, it's not a decent sounding headphone. It's a *fantastic* sounding one. If they can get the next version to be comfortable, and extend more for larger heads, it'd easily be among my top faves of all time. The sound quality is that good for the price.


 
 You know what's REALLY cool, Office Depot. They sell Beats headphones and the take returns on anything that is with box recipt and in working condition under a week old!
  
 I've gotten a few pairs of $100+ Koss headphones there before and Im fairly certain I may be able to buy and return a pair of Monster headphones as well, 
  
 I hate Monster, for the image it represents BUT... if monsters becomes to headphones what Apples is to computers, I'll still hate it... but I will also respect it. I hate Apple, all their products and their entire... just everything about the company aggrivates me. BUT I do respect them, they make a solid product that is reliable and easy to use. I respect the technology and hate teh buisness :3
  
 If monster can produce a good headphone, that's Fantastic for the money... I'll still hate the company... but it'll be with up most respect :3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Monster =/= Beats, just in case you didn't know. Beats is it's own thing now. Monster is a better company for it.


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> Monster =/= Beats, just in case you didn't know. Beats is it's own thing now. Monster is a better company for it.


 
 Agree'd but you know the company history, Monster wants Money, I respect them for making a better product for this goal and I respect them for severing ties to Beats, how ever... this is still Monster, maybe in 20-30 years they can establish some credibility as Koss and Sony has, but for now I'd rather avoid them, and support more passionate and smaller companies


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All companies want money. This is a business. If it wasn't for Monster, headphones wouldn't be as popular as they are now.


----------



## DADDYDC650

MLE, thoughts on Sony's new PS4 headset?


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> All companies want money. This is a business. If it wasn't for Monster, headphones wouldn't be as popular as they are now.


 
 That  is very true, although I don't credit Monster for the popularity of headphones, back when I was in elementary school, plenty of the High Schoolers I knew then where rockin Sony CD players and headphones
  
 I will say though, that Monster and Apple both... revelutionized portable Audio, I still feel how ever they charge far to much for the "cosmetic" value of the product they sell. Monster may be moving... in a direction within which it looks and sounds as good as other headphones in it's class but at the end of the day I'd still rather own a Audio Technica, or better yet maybe an Alpha Dog here soon
  
 Non the less, I'd like to hear them. Just for the sake being able to confidently recommend them to others, I'm not sure if I've mentioned how little I care for the DJ 100, it's a nice enough Koss closed back that I've owned twice and never liked, but I see the potential in it and can comfortably recommend it
  
 Although I do like Koss, non teh less lookin forward to hearing these some time this month. I'll have to stop buy and see who's got them, along with a generous return policy!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Daddy, I'm interested if only because I'm more into simplicity over elaborate setups. I was always interested in the Sony headsets.

Shenay,I'm not talking about the use of headphones in general. I'm talking about the sudden surge of interest in headphones by casuals. Before Monster, before beats, headphones were just a device people used to listen to music. Now, it's become integrated with pop culture. It's become a 'Monster', literally. The funny thing though, even though it has become a lot more mainstream, it DOES grab a lot of individuals that didn't know about headphones and audiophilia in general. These people, then look into more serious, less well known offerings, and find their way here. that's where they learn of other types of headphones. I myself came here after only jumping into headphones with the mainstream Astro A40 gaming headset.

So no, before Monster and Beats... headphones were nowhere near the juggernaut business that they are today.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Daddy, I'm interested if only because I'm more into simplicity over elaborate setups. I was always interested in the Sony headsets.
> 
> Shenay,I'm not talking about the use of headphones in general. I'm talking about the sudden surge of interest in headphones by casuals. Before Monster, before beats, headphones were just a device people used to listen to music. Now, it's become integrated with pop culture. It's become a 'Monster', literally. The funny thing though, even though it has become a lot more mainstream, it DOES grab a lot of individuals that didn't know about headphones and audiophilia in general. These people, then look into more serious, less well known offerings, and find their way here. that's where they learn of other types of headphones. I myself came here after only jumping into headphones with the mainstream Astro A40 gaming headset.
> 
> So no, before Monster and Beats... headphones were nowhere near the juggernaut business that they are today.




To be fair, this is true. I myself am one prime example of that. I got into headphones because I heard the Beats but wanted something better in the end... That's exactly how I got here and look at me now. I am a headphone guy xD 

I am with Mshenay on this one too I passionately hate Apple and Monster for ridiculously pricing their products, charging way too much for design. IMO of course. But I too respect them for what they accomplished, though I'll try to stáy away from anything Apple from as long as possible, although it might be inevitable one day ;/ luckily there is Sony for now 
As for Monster, it's great that they are finally making decent headphones after pricing their previous trashy cans in the 300-500$ range... I might give them a chance in a few years xP


----------



## Fegefeuer

The soon-to-be upgrading to the HD 800 man called Mad Lust Envy is right. 
  
 By lowering price sensivity (yeah kinda funny) Monster also raised new potential customers for mid-fi to even high end as people become more and more interested in headphones outside Beats.
  
 I am also very confident about binaural audio in that regard as many many developers like Harman are investing into DSP tech lately.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> I am also very confident about binaural audio in that regard as many many developers like Harman are investing into DSP tech lately.


 
  
 What tech is Harman investing in?


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> What tech is Harman investing in?


 
  
 No clear product on the horizon. Like the non-existence of a headphone that targets the Sean Olive Curve perfectly. I think stuff that stems from these researches and investments is many years away. At least it's going forward now that headphones are serious business and not just a gadget anymore.
  
 Until then you can buy the Realiser A8 my friend.


----------



## Evshrug

mshenay said:


> You know what's REALLY cool, Office Depot. They sell Beats headphones and the take returns on anything that is with box recipt and in working condition under a week old!
> 
> I've gotten a few pairs of $100+ Koss headphones there before and Im fairly certain I may be able to buy and return a pair of Monster headphones as well,
> 
> ...



I used to work at Office Depot, lol. I didn't feel like there was anything fun about that store at the time, except for some of the electronics (cameras).
And... I have to laugh at the Apple hate. What, is it the fact that they do a basic check on apps before allowing them to be installed on consumer devices, or is it because they created the first of many types of products and didn't lower the segment value by cheapening price and build quality?
A $50 monster HDMI cable is one thing, a custom $650 smartphone or $1200 MacBook Pro are something entirely different. I'm not saying you should buy Apple stuff or agree with their every move (surely they could offer more storage in iDevices by now?), but I am saying that their stuff isn't just pricey, it's NICE pricey stuff.




mad lust envy said:


> Daddy, I'm interested if only because I'm more into simplicity over elaborate setups. I was always interested in the Sony headsets.
> 
> Shenay, I'm not talking about the use of headphones in general. I'm talking about the sudden surge of interest in headphones by casuals. Before Monster, before beats, headphones were just a device people used to listen to music. Now, it's become integrated with pop culture. It's become a 'Monster', literally. The funny thing though, even though it has become a lot more mainstream, it DOES grab a lot of individuals that didn't know about headphones and audiophilia in general. These people, then look into more serious, less well known offerings, and find their way here. that's where they learn of other types of headphones. I myself came here after only jumping into headphones with the mainstream Astro A40 gaming headset.
> 
> So no, before Monster and Beats... headphones were nowhere near the juggernaut business that they are today.



I think my first headphones were a pair of Philips closed, noise-cancelling, behind-the-head 'phones, but I got those more for the NC and plane flights. And, they hurt. I've always liked audio, but the first pair of headphones I got for myself for their audio quality were Etymotics in 2005. Still have and like 'em, I just need NOT to have that level of noise isolation most of the time.



fegefeuer said:


> The soon-to-be upgrading to the HD 800 man called Mad Lust Envy is right.
> 
> By lowering price sensivity (yeah kinda funny) Monster also raised new potential customers for mid-fi to even high end as people become more and more interested in headphones outside Beats.
> 
> I am also very confident about binaural audio in that regard as many many developers like Harman are investing into DSP tech lately.



Great to hear that even Harman is looking into DSPs...

I just played a few hours of CoD: Ghosts with... my Koss KSC75 clip ons. I forgot how ridiculous they are! If I got into massive debt, the Koss would probably end up my keepers, just a huge value. I'm SURE Mad would love to hear and own a pair of HD800, but he listens to his Koss even more than me, and I think the ridiculous value of those will give him great pause before buying an HD800.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll never rid of my Koss clip ons, unless there is a better clip on that hits the same kind of notes. 

The Yuin G1A was nice, but not $150 nice, and the tonal balance wasn't suited for all around purpose like the KSC35...

But yeah... my KSC35 is used basically 99% of my headphone time. This is why I wish there was a truly high end clip on.


----------



## Evshrug

I feel like my $12 koss sound at least as technically proficient as my Polk monitor 40s. There were actually a few moments last night where I was like "Are my speakers on? Am I gonna wake up the house?"


----------



## Grymok

I have been using my DT 990 premium, with pleasure for a year now. For voice i have been using a Blue snowflake, which has good sound quality, but picks-up ALL background noise. Which is pretty annoying for the people i'm speaking with.
  
 I have been looking for some add-on/clip-on mic, which can either be placed on the cable, or top of my shirt, to record my voice.
 The Mod Mic v2, has been mentioned a lot, but it's from US, which will cost alot of TAX, import and shipping to Denmark.
 Cheapooo mics: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35DI-3-5-mm-10-PCS-Computer-Clip-on-Mini-Microphone-Audio-Amazing-Sound-Earphone-/330950953133?pt=UK_Computing_Microphones&hash=item4d0e36c8ad
 Speedlink mic: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speedlink-INT-SL-8691-SBK-01-Spes-Clip-On-Microphone/dp/B004YEWC22/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391791677&sr=8-2&keywords=mod+mic
 Zalman mic: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zalman-ZM-MIC1-ZMMIC1-Lapel-Microphone/dp/B00029MTMQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391791677&sr=8-1&keywords=mod+mic
  
 Which of the above will you choose for skyping, ts etc. I'm not recording for any live tv or anything, only voice speak.


----------



## Evshrug

Is a mic like this available in Denmark? I recently had a head-fi'er I was playing with on PC tell me that the mic was good, seemed tuned for radio (vocals).

Another nice but inexpensive option is the Deal Extreme lapel mic that Mad listed on the guide. Ships slow, but from China, so I assume it can be shipped anywhere.


----------



## Grymok

But ain't that mic the same as this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35DI-3-5-mm-10-PCS-Computer-Clip-on-Mini-Microphone-Audio-Amazing-Sound-Earphone-/330950953133?pt=UK_Computing_Microphones&hash=item4d0e36c8ad
 Just 10x of them for 6£?


----------



## Makiah S

mad lust envy said:


> Daddy, I'm interested if only because I'm more into simplicity over elaborate setups. I was always interested in the Sony headsets.
> 
> Shenay,I'm not talking about the use of headphones in general. I'm talking about the sudden surge of interest in headphones by casuals. Before Monster, before beats, headphones were just a device people used to listen to music. Now, it's become integrated with pop culture. It's become a 'Monster', literally. The funny thing though, even though it has become a lot more mainstream, it DOES grab a lot of individuals that didn't know about headphones and audiophilia in general. These people, then look into more serious, less well known offerings, and find their way here. that's where they learn of other types of headphones. I myself came here after only jumping into headphones with the mainstream Astro A40 gaming headset.
> 
> So no, before Monster and Beats... headphones were nowhere near the juggernaut business that they are today.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> I used to work at Office Depot, lol. I didn't feel like there was anything fun about that store at the time, except for some of the electronics (cameras).
> And... I have to laugh at the Apple hate. What, is it the fact that they do a basic check on apps before allowing them to be installed on consumer devices, or is it because they created the first of many types of products and didn't lower the segment value by cheapening price and build quality?
> A $50 monster HDMI cable is one thing, a custom $650 smartphone or $1200 MacBook Pro are something entirely different. I'm not saying you should buy Apple stuff or agree with their every move (surely they could offer more storage in iDevices by now?), but I am saying that their stuff isn't just pricey, it's NICE pricey stuff.
> I think my first headphones were a pair of Philips closed, noise-cancelling, behind-the-head 'phones, but I got those more for the NC and plane flights. And, they hurt. I've always liked audio, but the first pair of headphones I got for myself for their audio quality were Etymotics in 2005. Still have and like 'em, I just need NOT to have that level of noise isolation most of the time.
> ...


 
  
  
 All good points,
  
 I guess my perspective is different, I grew up with my Step Dad who was  Dj, so he was into Stero and headphones already, as where his and by extension my friends. So growing up I was always into better sounding headphones.  Headphones where good buisness back when I was 5-6 years old... then iPod came along and suddenly you stop seing Sony Walkmans, and DiscMans and Koss headphones, now every one has Apple Ear Buds and an iPod. Apple really killed the Audiophile scene where I am, and did so before I even got a chance to get into the good gear! 
  
 But that is a good point, Monster is a bit of a gate way for a lot of new consumers
  
 and why do I hate apple? Because the over charge for their products. I grew up with Windows, the cheaper "budget" operating system and I'm in the process of moving to Linux. Apple get's away with charging people a huge preium for most of the time Average Hard Ware, and a glorified Unix OS. They make a great product! They support it wonderfully, but they just charge to much for it. I can understand it's market, and why it's successesful. I just find it a shame that Apple within the US Market has never needed to price there computers competively. Well I take that back, Google Android [Linux] is starting to compete nicely again'st them. FINALLY, 
  
 Apple just is not a "smart" buy for me. It's a simple solution to Computing but I can do more with less money.


----------



## conquerator2

mshenay said:


> All good points,
> 
> I guess my perspective is different, I grew up with my Step Dad who was  Dj, so he was into Stero and headphones already, as where his and by extension my friends. So growing up I was always into better sounding headphones.  Headphones where good buisness back when I was 5-6 years old... then iPod came along and suddenly you stop seing Sony Walkmans, and DiscMans and Koss headphones, now every one has Apple Ear Buds and an iPod. Apple really killed the Audiophile scene where I am, and did so before I even got a chance to get into the good gear!
> 
> ...


 
 Can't agree more with you bro 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 They gave premium price an extra Premium meaning


----------



## roguegeek

It's feeling like 2004 all over again up in this mug right now.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Is a mic like this available in Denmark? I recently had a head-fi'er I was playing with on PC tell me that the mic was good, seemed tuned for radio (vocals).
> 
> Another nice but inexpensive option is the Deal Extreme lapel mic that Mad listed on the guide. Ships slow, but from China, so I assume it can be shipped anywhere.


 
  
 That looks exactly like my Deal Extreme clip on mic that I was using  And I stand by my words. When you changed from the first mic to the one you linked your voice became more focused and had more body in the lower register; almost the same way that most talk radio is EQ'd today.


----------



## Evshrug

grymok said:


> But ain't that mic the same as this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35DI-3-5-mm-10-PCS-Computer-Clip-on-Mini-Microphone-Audio-Amazing-Sound-Earphone-/330950953133?pt=UK_Computing_Microphones&hash=item4d0e36c8ad
> Just 10x of them for 6£?



Seems plausible... Stuff is rebranded so much these days. The "Deal Extreme" mic may well be the exact same internally as mine, and this eBay one as well.



axelcloris said:


> That looks exactly like my Deal Extreme clip on mic that I was using  And I stand by my words. When you changed from the first mic to the one you linked your voice became more focused and had more body in the lower register; almost the same way that most talk radio is EQ'd today.



Yeah I'll use that again next time.
I actually got my volume knob working! ... For a second. A moment after the Creative software sensed it, the knob stopped adjusting it. I wonder if that happens cuz I have volume keys on my keyboard?

I haven't contacted tech support about the static bursts yet.


----------



## Grymok

Oki . 
 Just bought the 10 pieces of mics for 6£. For that amount, it doesn't matter much ,if it's crap.
 But as i can see, they look pretty much EXACTLY the same. Just different pictures.
 I just hope it won't catch that much background noise


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you have a fan in your vicinity, the clip on mic will pick it up. Otherwise just keep it a little away from your mouth as to not pick up breathing.


----------



## Evshrug

I gave away my spares as gifts, because none broke


----------



## Change is Good

Axel, when do you get your Alphas? I jus saw Dan's post of the matte black Alpha... jizz

Mad, maybe you should steal a pic and update it on your review....


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Axel, when do you get your Alphas? I jus saw Dan's post of the matte black Alpha... jizz


 
  
 I haven't received my upgrade email yet. And now I'm torn between the black and red finishes. If I go black, I'll have to wait a bit longer to get them. But I love that all stealth look. That said, the red cups accent the black finish on everything else even more. Decisions decisions...


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I haven't received my upgrade email yet. And now I'm torn between the black and red finishes. If I go black, I'll have to wait a bit longer to get them. But I love that all stealth look. That said, the red cups accent the black finish on everything else even more. Decisions decisions...


 
  
 Go stealth! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Go stealth!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's tempting. I want to see Dan's final version before deciding. But I'm still leaning towards that lovely red. It's just so darned classy. And I'm a classy lady gent.


----------



## iamstumper

First, great thread!  Can't believe I read through hundreds of pages over the past month .... OK, actually I can.  My mind has become mush and over saturated with all the information! 

 Second, looking for input / recommendation on headphone(s), dac, and amp.
  
 I currently use a laptop for gaming (50%), music (40%), and movies (10%).
  
 The laptop is a Clevo P157SM based system with the following features:
 * SOUND BLASTER X-FI MB3
 * External 7.1CH audio output supported by headphone, microphone, Line-in, and S/PDIF jack
 * 1 x USB 2.0 port
 * 2 x USB 3.0 ports (1 x powered USB port, AC/DC)
 * 1 x eSATA / USB 3.0 combo port
 * 1 x Mini IEEE 1394a port
 * 1 x Display port 1.2
 * 1 x Mini Display port 1.2
 * 1 x HDMI output port (with HDCP)   
 * 1 x Headphone jack
 * 1 x Microphone jack
 * 1 x S/PDIF output jack
 
Gaming usage is primarily fps (60%), mmo (30%), and other (10%). I especially like positional cues (surround sound), details, and the fun of a good explosion or two within games 
 
Music I primarily listen to scottish fiddle & cello, rock, alternative rock, classical, indie pop, hip hop, folk rock, & r&b.  Female vocals are a personal favorite as well.  For local / home network music listening I use flac and mp3 @320.  And for streaming I use Spotify.
 
Movies is a combination of Netflix streaming and blu-ray / dvd based content.  Genres are usually sci-fi, action, thriller, horror, and all other.  As with gaming, I like positional cues (surround sound), details, and the fun of a good explosion or two.
 
While gaming (or even on it's own) I use communication applications such as Teamspeak, Ventrilo, game supported voice, and Skype.
 
I currently have a pair of Sennheiser HD 590 that have seen better days (headband pad is non-existent, ear pads are splitting, and the cat knocked a glass of water off my desk into one of the ear cups) and a pair of Sennheiser 280 pro that I merely find OK, but allow me to game / listen without disturbing the wife late at night.
 
After reading through the posts within this thread and others, I'm leaning towards the AKG K712 Pro for my open headphones and the Mr Speakers Alpha Dogs for my closed set.  However, I wanted to get input from those that have similar tastes as I listed above and have listened to the two and can weigh in.
 
Or, if someone has similar taste and has a strong recommendation other than these two.
 
And of course, what I need in between my laptop and the headphones?  Mixamp?  Xonar U7?  Yamaha receiver with Silent Cinema?  Amp?
 
And, Alpha Dog is the top of the budget for any single item.
 
Phew ... hope that gave enough info to get the ball rolling!


----------



## minion1990

Hello guys, i need a quick advise please.
 My Rabbit (that little *******  ) bit my AKG K702 AE cable...
 Which one is the right to buy? I've only found one cable at AKG : http://www.akg.com/EK300-1280.html?pid=56
 I'm going to repair the ruined one, but with such an expensive Headphone i want a flawless cable..
  
 Thx for your help


----------



## Evshrug

Iamstumper,
I actually have lots of similar interests, tho substitute Scottish strings for classical and folk strings and Van Morrison (on reflection, I probably WOULD like Scottish strings). I do much enjoy my k712, they really are something special for sound that seems to not be from headphones, but they're not the only choice.

I've been through a lot of those virtual surround DSPs, a good place to start is reading my post linked in my signature (if I knew then...") cuz I've collected a lot of samples, updating more along the way as I find.


----------



## tigim101

Can anyone do a quick comparison between the K612 and the Sony Ma900? In terms of sound and comfort? Ive been trying hard to decide between these. I have a CAL and wanted something open, just bought an HD 558 2 days ago, and I like it, but was thinking I could get something a little better. I can still return this easily and buy something else. The Sony's attract me because of their apparently insanely good comfort, which is vital because I spend a lot of time with my headphones on. The comfort of the 558 is pretty good, if a little clampy (it got more loose after a day), but I definitely prefer the velour to pleather. I havent heard a single bad thing about the K612, and have seen some people regard them as better in every way in terms of sound compared to the MA900. I will driving the headphones from a Fiio E10. 
  
 Ive heard that the position of your ears in the MA900 can change the sound a lot, is it annoying to get your ears in the right position? And do the headphones move around? Or is it easy to put them on and get them in the right spot. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## conquerator2

tigim101 said:


> Can anyone do a quick comparison between the K612 and the Sony Ma900? In terms of sound and comfort? Ive been trying hard to decide between these. I have a CAL and wanted something open, just bought an HD 558 2 days ago, and I like it, but was thinking I could get something a little better. I can still return this easily and buy something else. The Sony's attract me because of their apparently insanely good comfort, which is vital because I spent a lot of time with my headphones on. The comfort of the 558 is pretty good, if a little clampy (it got more loose after a day), but I definitely prefer the velour to pleather. I havent heard a single bad thing about the K612, and have seen some people regard them as better in every way in terms of sound compared to the MA900. I will driving the headphones from a Fiio E10.
> 
> Ive heard that the position of your ears in the MA900 can change the sound a lot, is it annoying to get your ears in the right position? And do the headphones move around? Or is it easy to put them on and get them in the right spot.
> 
> Thanks


 
 'tis not enough? - http://www.head-fi.org/t/691053/review-and-comparison-of-the-200-open-back-underdogs-the-akg-k612-pro-and-the-sony-mdr-ma900


----------



## tigim101

conquerator2 said:


> 'tis not enough? - http://www.head-fi.org/t/691053/review-and-comparison-of-the-200-open-back-underdogs-the-akg-k612-pro-and-the-sony-mdr-ma900


 
 Yes I have read that review, and everyone in the thread seems to think that the K612 is superior in all aspects expect soundstage. Not that many people commented on the comfort, and it seems to be pretty power hungry, and im not sure if the Fiio E10 drives it well. Was just looking for more opinions.


----------



## conquerator2

tigim101 said:


> Yes I have read that review, and everyone in the thread seems to think that the K612 is superior in all aspects expect soundstage. Not that many people commented on the comfort, and it seems to be pretty power hungry, and im not sure if the Fiio E10 drives it well. Was just looking for more opinions.


 
 I own both, so what in particular you need to know? 
 Fetch me a PM and I'll try to help :] [No need to post it here me thinks]


----------



## conquerator2

tigim101 said:


> Yes I have read that review, and everyone in the thread seems to think that the K612 is superior in all aspects expect soundstage. Not that many people commented on the comfort, and it seems to be pretty power hungry, and im not sure if the Fiio E10 drives it well. Was just looking for more opinions.


 
  
 The MA900 is the safer choice IMO.
 More musical, easier on the ears and also easier to drive.
 They are not inferior to one another, just different. The K612 being more neutral/analytic, MA-900 more fun/mid-centric.
 K612 wins in imaging, MA-900 wins in soundstage size.
  
 I like both and oyu can't really go wrong with either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've considered selling my MA900 for the K612, but in the end, I can't see myself giving it up. Its just been too good to me, like my Koss clip ons.


----------



## NamelessPFG

And since the MA900's discontinued and all, the price will only keep going up as it sells out. Makes it all the more unlikely you'll get a replacement.

I'm probably going to hang onto my MA900 for a while longer, but something desirable and expensive just showed up elsewhere, possibly necessitating the sale of my more valuable gear...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I've considered selling my MA900 for the K612, but in the end, I can't see myself giving it up. Its just been too good to me, like my Koss clip ons.




The Annie was good to you, too, and what happened to it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The need to try something new.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The need to try something new.




It gets me every time!!!


----------



## DADDYDC650

I got a chance to use the new _*Gold Playstation 4 headset*_ for about 5 hours. My sister went out and purchased them at Best Buy late last night so I decided to cancel my pre-order from Amazon and give these a whirl before I made my decision. 
  
 Comfort wise, they feel pretty good. Very light and comfy. They are made out of plastic but are sturdy and I doubt they will have the same durability issues the Pulse Elite had. They fit my size 8 head well. Not too tight and not too loose. I haven't had to adjust them much after hours of usage. The ear pads seem to be made out of the same material as Sony's PS3 headsets which is a plus since they feel nice and soft against my dome.
  
 For $99.99 I wasn't expecting the sound to blow me away and I was right. They sound good but not great. They have a kind of thin sound signature. There's a decent amount of bass but it's not deep and won't blow your ear drums. I like that they sound loud and don't really distort too much at max volume. On second thought, I'm not sure if it's slight distortion I hear with explosions or the nature of the thin sound signature. I had no issues locating enemies and other objects in games such as BF4 and COD: Ghost so that was a pleasant surprise.
  
 Last of all, I had no issues with voice chat in games. I could hear everyone without issue even with explosions all around me. Although I must mention that I was in a party chat and a couple of buddies commented that they could hear me well but compared to my Astro 5.8 mixamp and a30 headset, it sounded a little "tinny". 
  
 As a gaming headset, I'd recommend the Gold PS4 headset. It does well with voice chatting, sounds good for a headset, surprisingly does a nice job with positioning and last of all, it is amazingly easy to hook up with no wires in sight.


----------



## appsmarsterx

tigim101 said:


> Yes I have read that review, and everyone in the thread seems to think that the K612 is superior in all aspects expect soundstage. Not that many people commented on the comfort, and it seems to be pretty power hungry, and im not sure if the Fiio E10 drives it well. Was just looking for more opinions.


 
  
 here is my quick impressions with 612pro comparing with ma900. unfortunately 612pro is not the headphone for me with E17.
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/216596/akg-k601-k612-pro-owners-unite/1020#post_10248010
  
 P.S: not sure about E10 but certainly E17 is not paring well with 612pro.
  
  
  
 edit:
 updated impressions added :
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/216596/akg-k601-k612-pro-owners-unite/1035#post_10265596


----------



## Change is Good

appsmarsterx said:


> here is my quick impressions with 612pro comparing with ma900. unfortunately 612pro is not the headphone for me with E17.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/216596/akg-k601-k612-pro-owners-unite/1020#post_10248010


 
  
 As I mentioned to you in that post... you are doing the K612 wrong with the E17...
  
 So... yeah... without proper amping? Not the headphone for you...


----------



## b0000

anybody here know if there's a way to adjust L/R balance with dolby headphone? I even tried to connect the output of my turtle beach dss2 to my tv, hoping i could adjust it from my tv's settings, but that didn't work. It's pretty annoying since my right ear is can't hear as well as my left by just a bit. I'd even buy an external amp to achieve it.


----------



## appsmarsterx

change is good said:


> As I mentioned to you in that post... you are doing the K612 wrong with the E17...
> 
> So... yeah... without proper amping? Not the headphone for you...


 
  
 I already tried it with my Xonar Phoebus which has the same DAC as STX (PCM1796) and TPA6120A2 AMP. so I dont completely agree with the "proper amping" argument.  I'm sure 612pro is a great headphone for its current price tag, but the point is 612pro is very unpredictable with some sources.


----------



## Change is Good

appsmarsterx said:


> I already tried it with my Xonar Phoebus which has the same DAC as STX (PCM1796) and TPA6120A2 AMP. so I dont completely agree with the "proper amping" argument.  I'm sure 612pro is a great headphone for its current price tag, but the point is 612pro is very unpredictable with some sources.


 
  
 Does that sound card dish out the same kind of power you'd get from a proper desktop amp? I have multiple sources, here, and the K612 works quite well with all of them... and are all amplified by some moderatley beefy amps.
  
 I'm not doubting the source you are using... I'm just doubting the amplification you are providing...


----------



## TMRaven

I'm also willing to bet you're using mere milliwatts on your beefy amps as well.


----------



## kman1211

appsmarsterx said:


> I already tried it with my Xonar Phoebus which has the same DAC as STX (PCM1796) and TPA6120A2 AMP. so I dont completely agree with the "proper amping" argument.  I'm sure 612pro is a great headphone for its current price tag, but the point is 612pro is very unpredictable with some sources.


 

 It is a picky headphone, it's more revealing than most headphones in it's price range. Lets just say if I had only the Magni as an amp when I got the K612, I may of preferred the MA900 to the K612. The K612 actually isn't that demanding of power, it just needs enough(basically a desktop amp), what it really needs is synergy. Proper amping in the case of the K612 is all about synergy. With the right synergy, it's more musical, engaging, realistic, and natural sounding than the MA900. It sounds it's absolute best on aggressive and dynamic amps imho and it seems to prefer tube or hyrbid amps to ss amps.


----------



## Change is Good

tmraven said:


> I'm also willing to bet you're using mere milliwatts on your beefy amps as well.


 
  
 Well... I did say _moderately... _lol
  
 I'm just saying he should try using the K612 with a desktop amp before giving off these impressions... but, meh... if he doesn't like it and isn't willing to try... so be it. The K612 just isn't for him.... nor is any other headphone that requires _some_ juice to shine...


----------



## appsmarsterx

change is good said:


> Does that sound card dish out the same kind of power you'd get from a proper desktop amp? I have multiple sources, here, and the K612 works quite well with all of them... and are all amplified by some moderatley beefy amps.
> 
> I'm not doubting the source you are using... I'm just doubting the amplification you are providing...


 
  
 I'm sure Xonar Phoebus is far more capable power source than E12 or any of the similar desktop amps, which uses separate pci-e power connecter to power the soundcard which can drive 600ohm cans. it is a beast.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> It is a picky headphone, it's more revealing than most headphones in it's price range. Lets just say if I had only the Magni as an amp when I got the K612, I may of preferred the MA900 to the K612. *The K612 actually isn't that demanding of power, it just needs enough(basically a desktop amp), what it really needs is synergy. Proper amping in the case of the K612 is all about synergy*. With the right synergy, it's more musical, engaging, realistic, and natural sounding than the MA900. It sounds it's absolute best on aggressive and dynamic amps imho and it seems to prefer tube or hyrbid amps to ss amps.


 
  
 ^This


----------



## kman1211

appsmarsterx said:


> I'm sure Xonar Phoebus is far more capable power source than E12 or any of the similar desktop amps, which uses separate pci-e power connecter to power the soundcard which can drive 600ohm cans. it is a beast.


 
 Actually that's not true, it won't compare to a proper desktop amp, it's more about quality than power, desktop amps offer better quality sound. It may be a powerful soundcard, but I haven't heard a soundcard properly drive a demanding headphone such as the K612, K702, HD 600, DT 880, etc. In my experience soundcards are best used as dacs.


----------



## appsmarsterx

yes. that's what I was trying to say. it was not about power, its about synergy. 
  
 anyway I d rather get something far more capable of most of the sources (like ma900) than something like 612pro, which is extremely picky with the sources. ma900 is right out of the box fantastically balanced with either directly with your iphone (any portable device) or E17 or even onboard realtek, no hassle with the sources. anyway I don't hate 612pro, this is just my personal opinion.


----------



## jumper

Any opinion on which Mixamp I should go with between the 2011 and 2013 - I've read about the differences in this thread but I also came across low mic volume issues on the 2013 while reading online, not to mention the extra hiss. I also read the 2011 can't update firmware like the 2013 can. I'm playing on PS4 and will be using K712. How should I choose which Mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the hiss is bothering you that much, then go for 2011. If you can live with the hiss, the 2013 has all the bells and whistles. I personally prefer the least amount of hiss, so I choose the 2011. As for low mic volume... you will need an external amp to remedy this.


----------



## NiteWalker

daddydc650 said:


> I got a chance to use the new _*Gold Playstation 4 headset*_ for about 5 hours. My sister went out and purchased them at Best Buy late last night so I decided to cancel my pre-order from Amazon and give these a whirl before I made my decision.
> 
> Comfort wise, they feel pretty good. Very light and comfy. They are made out of plastic but are sturdy and I doubt they will have the same durability issues the Pulse Elite had. They fit my size 8 head well. Not too tight and not too loose. I haven't had to adjust them much after hours of usage. The ear pads seem to be made out of the same material as Sony's PS3 headsets which is a plus since they feel nice and soft against my dome.
> 
> ...


 

 I echo your comments.
 I grabbed the gold headset earlier today from best buy and feel it's $100 well spent.
 Good, but not great sound, but then again I paid good, but not great money for them. 
  
 For the convenience they offer they're well worth the $100.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Half tempted on contacting Sony to see if they'll send me the Gold and the Pulse for review... I should ask Mike who to contact. That, and to also ask them if they have a successor to the MA900 due out in the near future.


----------



## jumper

mad lust envy said:


> If the hiss is bothering you that much, then go for 2011. If you can live with the hiss, the 2013 has all the bells and whistles. I personally prefer the least amount of hiss, so I choose the 2011. As for low mic volume... you will need an external amp to remedy this.


 
  
 Thanks Mad.  Will the low efficiency of the K712 mitigate the hiss any appreciable amount?  This will be my first Mixamp so I can't say whether the hiss will be an issue.  Is the implementation of Dolby headphone the same between the 2011 and 2013?  That would be the most important to me, say for example if the 2013 had a new version of DH or that it would be updated via firmware.  On the other hand I saw I can still get the A30/2011 Mixamp combo for $80 at Microsoft (I would sell the A30).  I'm not sure if I care about the EQ presets on the 2013, Pro mode might be worth it.  I guess I'm on the fence looking for a reason to push me one way or another, I don't want to go through switching after picking one.


----------



## DADDYDC650

NiteWalker, how is the battery life? I only got to use the Gold PS4 headset for 5 hours or so but from what I can tell, they seem like they will last the full 8 hours as advertised. I'm thinking about purchasing a pair for myself but I already have the 5.8 mixamp and I'm sure Sony is going to release a Platinum PS4 headset. I just don't see them selling only one headset.
 
MLE, I hope Sony sends you a pair. I would like to know what you think of them since you have pretty much listened to who knows how many headphones and headsets and can give a better comparison than anyone I know. 

BTW, did you send your Astro a30's back in for repair yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone is the same (console devices all use Dolby Headphone 2), so there is no differences there.

The K712, I haven't heard it, but I don't find the hiss to be problematic at all with my Mixamp 5.8. The 5.8 has a comparable level of hiss as the 2013 Mixamp, so I wouldn't worry too much if you go that route, unless you have a super sensitive headphone.

Daddy, no. I'll probably send them in this week, since my visitors leave today.


----------



## NiteWalker

daddydc650 said:


> NiteWalker, how is the battery life? I only got to use the Gold PS4 headset for 5 hours or so but from what I can tell, they seem like they will last the full 8 hours as advertised. I'm thinking about purchasing a pair for myself but I already have the 5.8 mixamp and I'm sure Sony is going to release a Platinum PS4 headset. I just don't see them selling only one headset.


 
 Very good so far. I just finished using them for about 3 hours a little while ago and the battery indicator on screen still showed full bars.
  I think the battery life will be fine with the gold headset. The biggest battery killer on the elites was the bass impact, which isn't needed on the gold.
  
 They sound good, but not as good as wired. But in buying the gold headset, you're paying for the convenience of plug and play with good sound.
 Very comfy.
 Worth the $100 IMHO.
  
 I agree with sony releasing a platinum headset. I think it'll have a simple design than the elites and not have the cracking defect the elites have.
 It'll be interesting to see what sony comes up with.


----------



## Nokami

Hey,
  
 i need some advice for a mates Headset.
  
 he has an A40 and would know how much better the PC360 is only for footsteps (not on SQ).
 He could sell the 40s for the 360 but he dont know if it is a worth upgrade..
  
 Thanks


----------



## benbenkr

Just have to keep in mind that the Gold, Pulse and even the first-gen wireless headset from Sony all uses subpar pleather earpads. Of everyone I know that has own it (which is to say, many), their earpads tore after just 6 months. Sony doesn't sell those replacement earpads directly either.


----------



## DADDYDC650

benbenkr said:


> Just have to keep in mind that the Gold, Pulse and even the first-gen wireless headset from Sony all uses subpar pleather earpads. Of everyone I know that has own it (which is to say, many), their earpads tore after just 6 months. Sony doesn't sell those replacement earpads directly either.


 
 Did your buddies take care of the ear pads? I quick Google search landed me a picture of some ear pad replacements. Shure HPAEC940 ear pads from Amazon fit nicely it seems. I'm not sure if they will fit the Gold headset but if they have the same drivers I wouldn't see why they not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Swapping to velours is undoubtedly going to alter the sound quality...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Swapping to velours is undoubtedly going to alter the sound quality...


 
 For sure but in a good or bad way? Only one way to find out. Besides, it's better than having a pos ear pad rest against your ear and then having to toss the headset into the trash.


----------



## theragekage

So I bought the astro a30 + mixamp 5.8 right when it came out to replace my TB x41s that broke. The a30s were ok but hurt my ears after long playing sessions. I then bought the Turtle beach hpx, which I have used for the last couple of years.

 I have just recently started looking into an upgrade and stumbled across this forum. Originally I was looking at the AD700x ($139 at zzound) but just noticed the q701 is $199 on amazon. Obviously I would need to amp the q701s, which is an additional cost. My question is, is the 701 worth the extra $150 or so more than the 700x? These will be mainly used for gaming, where I play 90% competitive FPS (cod/halo).

Also, can anyone comment on the differences between the hpx and either of the headsets mentioned above? Mainly concerning soundstage and positioning, etc.


----------



## Evshrug

appsmarsterx said:


> I already tried it with my Xonar Phoebus which has the same DAC as STX (PCM1796) and TPA6120A2 AMP. so I dont completely agree with the "proper amping" argument.  I'm sure 612pro is a great headphone for its current price tag, but the point is 612pro is very unpredictable with some sources.



Amps.
I liked the MA900, particularly the mids, but the "n" shape of the frequency curve didn't have the sparkle and extension that I associate with hi-fi and I find more exciting (the MA900 sounded more... compressed). Meanwhile the AKG's I've owned have scaled remarkably well, making the difference between a headphone that sounded quite good (MA900) and a phone I craved to listen to.
I have a single-ended Class A Tube amp that I love with my 6DJ8-type tubes, but I think the K612 and higher would be well served with something as simple as a Schiit Vali or a Project Starlight.


----------



## AUserName501

So, what is the cheapest device that has Dolby Headphone 7.1? I have Dolby Headphone 5.1 already. Asus are terrible at explaining what soundcards have what on their specifications page.


----------



## AUserName501

Does anyone else find that the front left and front right virtual speakers for CMSS-3D and SBX Pro Studio sound as if they are positioned at past 45° rather than 30°?


----------



## tsine

After waiting a while ...I finally ended up getting the Creative Sound Blaster ZXR . It looks the best way to go right now


----------



## conquerator2

ausername501 said:


> So, what is the cheapest device that has Dolby Headphone 7.1? I have Dolby Headphone 5.1 already. Asus are terrible at explaining what soundcards have what on their specifications page.


 
 I guess the Xonar U3. That's what I got.


----------



## AUserName501

You should check this thread at Overclock I made.  It includes the same audio that has been processed by different virtual surround sound software. I'm in the process of copying it to this thread I have made at Head-Fi. Unfortunately, it keeps getting stuck in the spam filter but I want opinions on how each VSS compares to each other.


----------



## AUserName501

conquerator2 said:


> I guess the Xonar U3. That's what I got.


 
  
 Is that 5.1 or 7.1?
  
 Edit: It is 5.1 not 7.1. I need 7.1 because I already have 5.1 Dolby Headphone.


----------



## conquerator2

ausername501 said:


> Is that 5.1 or 7.1?
> 
> Edit: It is 5.1 not 7.1. I need 7.1 because I already have 5.1 Dolby Headphone.




I dunno, it's DH 1-3... Up to 8 channels.


----------



## Orodromeus

Salutations dear Mad Lust Envy!
  
 Just ordered a pair of Q701 and wanted to say thanks for all the time and effort you've put into the forums and your brilliant guide 
  
 Can't wait for them to arrive 
 I'm not ready for them yet though...haha...My Platronics Gamecom 780 broke and I've decided it's about time to upgrade my audio experience to a whole new level 
 (As a result of that all I have at the moment is my onboard sound card )
  
 Being new to the whole high sound quality scene I hope I'll manage to get the right gear combo to utilize them correctly 
 (Still rather confused atm  Sound card vs external DAC, amps and so on...haha..)
  
 Anyhow...Thanks again! Stellar job! You're truly a gentleman and a scholar ^^


----------



## Evshrug

Mixamp 5.8 arrived!!!
Will record quick unboxing/setup video in case it might be neat on Youtube, but I'm gonna shower first...


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Mixamp 5.8 arrived!!!
> Will record quick unboxing/setup video in case it might be neat on Youtube, but I'm gonna shower first...


 
  
 Gotta be clean to look pretty on camera.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Gotta be clean to look pretty on camera.



I just wanted to keep hair grease away from new stuff... D'you think I should shave or... le gasp... Put pants on before the video?!


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I just wanted to keep hair grease away from new stuff... D'you think I should shave or... le gasp... Put pants on before the video?!


 
  
 Well you did use 3 exclamation marks, so you sound super excited. Pants may help keep other fluids from getting onto the new gear. Can't be too cautious.


----------



## Evshrug

Good thing I went for pants, as I decided that putting the box on the floor and my camera on a chair for an overhead view would be good.

Unboxing First impressions:


 Tons of effort into cool box design and product reveal. Fun unboxing!
 Seems to be some fine sawdust in my package... Didn't think any of the package contents were responsible, but a non-issue.
 HOLY CABLES MOTHERLOAD, BATMAN!
 Aw crap, AAA batteries... I've got tons of rechargeable AA's, guess I'll get Astro's pack next paycheck. Interesting to note, the included AAA batteries have an expiration date of 08/2016... Might be able to guess how long this box has been in storage if I can see what the average expiration time is on new off-the-shelf batteries.
 I'm having trouble figuring out how to open the Rx to put batteries in...
 Seems like MY A30's might be defective too. Haven't listened to them yet, but if I shake them, the driver inside the right earcup rattles around. Not a good first impression, especially for an intitially + $220 product! I would be disappointed if I hadn't gotten mine on sale and hadn't intended to use other headphones anyway...
 Otherwise, the A30's are cool. Velour earpads, nice design, glossy and matte finishes, design "tags" are cool and attach securely, good headband padding, and I like how they fold the earcups. If I wasn't concerned about the loose driver, these would be outwardly "cool."
 Played a test song (John Legend's "Made To Love") from my iPhone 5S... First thought was "this feels closed in." Now, I'm pretty used to open headphones, so this can't compete on soundstage, but it's also a bit dark and a reminder about what "average" detail and separation sounds like. That said, it was only about half the song and a bit of turning up the volume before I got used to this chocolaty sound... It fails to impress, but it pleases. As long as I have my head tilted left...
 Bass drops off significantly in the right earcup if I keep my head straight, and destroys the imaging, because the driver tilts away. It's funny, because it doesn't always come loose... But by the same token, sometimes it gets stuck in the "wrong" position. I'm actually sad, because though they lack soundstage, they are fun and non-fatiguing to listen to.


So Mad, I'm going to contact Astro now about servicing the A30's, how about you?


----------



## DADDYDC650

I'm going to return my Astro a30's + 5.8 mixamp for a refund. It annoys me that the PS3/PC chat cable works but the voice chat volume is too low for my tastes. A workaround is to use the Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable which makes chat louder but then I have to walk around my place with the PS4 controller and 2 cables hanging from the 5.8 RX unit. I've gone ahead and pre-ordered the Gold PS4 headset from Amazon since I had $22 credit. The Astro 5.8 has better sound than the Gold PS4 headset but for me, I'd rather have a completely wireless and hassle free experience. I can also sell the Gold PS4 headset a lot easier than the Astro's once Sony releases their yet to be announced Platinum headset.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Good thing I went for pants, as I decided that putting the box on the floor and my camera on a chair for an overhead view would be good.
> 
> Unboxing First impressions:
> Seems like MY A30's might be defective too. Haven't listened to them yet, but if I shake them, the driver inside the right earcup rattles around. Not a good first impression, especially for an intitially + $220 product! I would be disappointed if I hadn't gotten mine on sale and hadn't intended to use other headphones anyway...


 
  
 I feel for you, man! I recently received an impulse buy on Saturday, myself... and had to ship it back, today, due to a left driver issue


----------



## Evshrug

Rumbly bass tho, better for music than gaming hahahah! Well, I'm a git foods


----------



## Sam21

I already have the Xonar U3, Xonar U7 and X-fi Go Pro! . I also have the Razer Surround Software.
  
 Besides these, which external sound card do you recommend for surround sound ?


----------



## Change is Good

So, I'm still looking for a portable over-ear/on-ear. This was my impulse buy...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 The sound from the left driver was noticeably low (when compared to the right)... and there was a bad crinkling from inside both drivers during adjustment. It really is a shame because after researching I knew these were it. I did, however, love what was coming from the working right driver... so I arranged for a replacement.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> So, I'm still looking for a portable over-ear/on-ear. This was my impulse buy...
> 
> The sound from the left driver was noticeably low (when compared to the right)... and there was a bad crinkling from inside both drivers during adjustment. It really is a shame because after researching I knew these were it. I did, however, love what was coming from the working right driver... so I arranged for a replacement.


 
 Interesting choice. I'm sure we'll all be interested in hearing your thoughts when you get yourself a good working pair.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So, I'm still looking for a portable over-ear/on-ear. This was my impulse buy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting. I dislike the K550 but I await your impressions when you have a working pair.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Interesting. I dislike the K550 but I await your impressions when you have a working pair.


 
  


roguegeek said:


> Interesting choice. I'm sure we'll all be interested in hearing your thoughts when you get yourself a good working pair.


 
  
 Definitely!


----------



## roguegeek

There were a handful of reasons I didn't like the K550, but sonics were definitely not one of them. Bad seal on my medium sized head was the biggest. Let's see how these do.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> So, I'm still looking for a portable over-ear/on-ear. This was my impulse buy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's such an attractive headphone, and certainly a capable one... But the community is divided about liking the signature or not. I've met people from both camps, but not heard it myself yet.

Getting on the Xbox again, this time with the 5.8 amped via FiiO E12 and my K712... Should be pretty ultimate! The noise has a pretty soft/rounded/even sound with little texture, so it's not offensive. Just reminds me of my noise-canceling headphone, but a little quieter.

Any volume setting suggestions for power-amping?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *It's such an attractive headphone, and certainly a capable one... But the community is divided about liking the signature or not. I've met people from both camps, but not heard it myself yet.*
> 
> Getting on the Xbox again, this time with the 5.8 amped via FiiO E12 and my K712... Should be pretty ultimate! The noise has a pretty soft/rounded/even sound with little texture, so it's not offensive. Just reminds me of my noise-canceling headphone, but a little quieter.
> 
> Any volume setting suggestions for power-amping?


 
  
 Divided over the K550? or the new K545?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What an odd choice, Change. I thought you were settling with a lot less? Why another headphone?

AND OMG, I LOST MY KSC35. My backup Sportapro was ran over by my mother when I visited her, and now I'm Kossless. :'(

I still have the custom PX100 with KSC75 clips, but tbey arent the most comfy.... looks like I'll have to buy some KSC75s... again.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> *What an odd choice, Change. I thought you were settling with a lot less? Why another headphone?*
> 
> AND OMG, I LOST MY KSC35. My backup Sportapro was ran over by my mother when I visited her, and now I'm Kossless. :'(
> 
> I still have the custom PX100 with KSC75 clips, but tbey arent the most comfy.... looks like I'll have to buy some KSC75s... again.


 
  
 New, sexy, portable, and seems like my kind of sound for my taste (warm, slightly bassy, well extended and accurate). You do know that is the new K545, right? Razordog gave me a special offer when I inquired about it (sorry, can't share the price).
  
 Its smaller than the K550... with a detachable cable. Plus, like I mentioned before, I'm still in search of my portable over-ear/on-ear. It gets annoying removing my IEMs all the time when someone is trying to get my attention at school/work.
  
 I can only hope I'm right with this one when my replacement arrives. I already shipped out the defective ones, today.
  
 And, damn, sorry to hear about you being Kossless. Luckily, it *was* your Kosses and not you're MA900s or DNA Pro!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OOOH, i thought it was the K550. My mistake. Hmm... warm? Nice.


As soon as I opened my door to leave for work, I practically tripped over this:



Keep in mind, I didn't know if they were sending these to me... and it's 11pm...

They could've easily been stolen right front my front door.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> New, sexy, portable, and seems like my kind of sound for my taste (warm, slightly bassy, well extended and accurate). You do know that is the new K545, right? Razordog gave me a special offer when I inquired about it (sorry, can't share the price).


 
  
 Ooooh, that's a different story. I thought they were the K550. And yeah, Brian is a class guy who takes care of people. It's always a real pleasure to work with him.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> OOOH, i thought it was the K550. My mistake. Hmm... warm? Nice.
> 
> 
> As soon as I opened my door to leave for work, I practically tripped over this:
> ...


 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG, yes. It has a detachable cable. IF these are worth anything, I'll be getting the Vmoda cable and using these as my headset.

The A30s will.. have to take a backseat. Time will tell.

Even as an onear, they feel more comfy than the DNA Pro, and have more extension, so they fit my head perfectly.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> OMG, yes. It has a detachable cable. IF these are worth anything, I'll be getting the Vmoda cable and using these as my headset.
> 
> The A30s will.. have to take a backseat. Time will tell.


 
  
 This is the on-ear version of the newer DNA Pro, right? Do tell...


----------



## miceblue

I actually liked the DNA from the times I tried it with my own gear at the Apple Store. They're not bad at all for the price.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> OMG, yes. It has a detachable cable. IF these are worth anything, I'll be getting the Vmoda cable and using these as my headset.
> 
> The A30s will.. have to take a backseat. Time will tell.
> 
> Even as an onear, they feel more comfy than the DNA Pro, and have more extension, so they fit my head perfectly.


 
  
 Boom Pro I hope. It is a lovely cable. I am biased.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, On ear.

First song... they already blow the hell out of the A30s. The A30s sound like AM radio for me. EVS stated his rumbles... mine sound as thin as any headphone I've used, outside of the AD700 and the like.

Yeah, the Boom pro.

It depends on how well these do for gaming. As long as they hit around a 7... I'll use them.

*edit: I spoke too soon. After about 30 minutes, my ears are raw... the pads are absolutely massacring my ears. Sigh...I guess I'm just not on ear material. The extent of on ear comfort is only with clip ons...

Reviewing this one is not gonna be easy on my ears...literally. A shame, as I do find the sound quality to be quite pleasing. *


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, I was playing my CoD: Ghosts, and explosions rumbled like those gamer chairs with built-in speakers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I submitted my 2nd email to Astro (they wanted some additional info). Get the ball rolling.


----------



## Fegefeuer

After the 3rd cable desaster of the UE 900 cable I got a full refund. They were practically endgame but that horrible cable problem that plagues this series should be a embarassment for UE. Unacceptable for a 400 bucks product. They are discontinued anyway. 
  
 I have a hard time liking those few onear headphones I recently tested (KEF M500, P7) and will opt for inears again.


----------



## rudyae86

Is astro going to make a new mix ampo pro? just wondering...also, whats this hissing you guys talk about that occurs with the mix amps, especially the 2012 and 2013 models>?
  
 because i used my ma900s with my friends 2013 mix amp and i dont hear any hissing. Is it when raising the volume high when there is like aloading screen or something?
  
 ?????
  
 Still wondering where is that hissing,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

P7 is over ear. 

I actually really love how the P5 feels. BW really knows on ear comfort. They just need better SQ. If it were cheaper and sounded better, I would easily buy the P3. That has to be one of the best pads and comfort out of any kind of headphone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> P7 is over ear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know, I just lumped them together for the single purpose I bought them: mobile, transportable, alternative to in-ears. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Will be sending them back and go with the SD3.


----------



## jumper

So I have the 2013 Mixamp on its way to me from Amazon, it will go with K712 and an O2 playing a PS4. Are there still chat issues connecting the Mixamp to the PS4? I was going to connect via USB but just read about sound quality issues with chat using this method?


----------



## TMRaven

If anybody is interested in a 2013 mixamp pro, I have one for sale on head-fi at 70% of its retail with free shipping.


----------



## Zeppelin-2k

I was thinking about picking up the DT990s (250 ohm) as my first set of hi-fi headphones, primarily for gaming. I was comparing it to the 558, but this has the more "fun" sound and deeper bass, which I'm a fan of. This is right on budget for me at $150, but being my first set I don't own or have budget for a nice amp. 

My question is, are the beyers *particularly* bad w/o amp (as you seemed to mention envy), enough to make the 558 sound significantly better? I am by no means an audiophile, and I'm not sure I would even hear a difference. For reference, I have the Realtek 898 on my board, with a supposed '600'ohm amp on it. Is it really worth it to go 60-70 over budget for a cheap amp? Thanks everyone.


----------



## TMRaven

I can't speak for the 250ohm beyers, but I had a 600ohm DT990 and it sounded perfectly fine running straight out of my iMac's soundcard.  The whole amping issue is severely overstated on head-fi as a general.  There are very few occasions where there's night and day differences or eye-opening experiences.  What a better amp and dac will do will give you a marginally better sound, and that has more to do with better refinement than raw output power.


----------



## DADDYDC650

tmraven said:


> If anybody is interested in a 2013 mixamp pro, I have one for sale on head-fi at 70% of its retail with free shipping.


 
 Why are you selling it if you don't mind me asking? Tired of the wires?


----------



## TMRaven

daddydc650 said:


> Why are you selling it if you don't mind me asking? Tired of the wires?


 
  
 It was a gift to a friend who used it alongside a DT990 and antlion modmic.  He loved the sound but over time he didn't use the setup as much.  He gave it back to me to sell off.  He ultimately decided he'd take a loss in sound quality and build quality to get a sony gold headset for the convenience.
  
 I can't speak for this 2013 mixamp hiss issue because I havn't tried it with games myself-- maybe I should do that.


----------



## DADDYDC650

So, I called the MS Store to get a return shipping label for my Astro 5.8 + a30 bundle and the rep told me that instead of returning them, I can keep them and get a refund of $60 to my Visa. I canceled my Gold PS4 headset order as soon as I hung up the phone. So I got the Astro 5.8 with the a30's for basically $60 after taxes. Deal! I guess I can live without being completely wireless for the price and the fact that I don't have to have inferior sound with the Gold PS4 headset and be able to use my Philips X1's. Awesome!


----------



## Nokami

I would really like to know if the PC360 is a sidegrade or a worth upgrade over the A40s? I mean it is worth to drop A40 for Pc360s for that price. Simply for competetive gaming...


----------



## JayL

Running a Mixamp 5.8 and PC360's with my PS4, I use the usb chat cable, everything works great. Can't believe how much longer the Astro rechargable battery lasts than AAA's.
  
 my question is this:
  
 the mixamp 5.8 and the pc360's both have a volume control.  Is there a best 'level' to set the PC360 volume control at and then only use the 5.8 volume ?


----------



## DADDYDC650

jayl said:


> Running a Mixamp 5.8 and PC360's with my PS4, I use the usb chat cable, everything works great. Can't believe how much longer the Astro rechargable battery lasts than AAA's.
> 
> my question is this:
> 
> the mixamp 5.8 and the pc360's both have a volume control.  Is there a best 'level' to set the PC360 volume control at and then only use the 5.8 volume ?


 
 Yup. Max it out on your PC360 then use the volume control on the 5.8 RX unit.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Microsoft is going to release a an adapter that plugs into the Xbox One controller for $25. Apparently any headset will be able to plug into this adapter and the controller has some kind of built in surround sound feature. I'll be buying this on the day it comes out and plugging in my Philips X1 + BoomPro. It will be a nice compliment to my Astro 5.8 I have connected to my PS4.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> Microsoft is going to release a an adapter that plugs into the Xbox One controller for $25. Apparently any headset will be able to plug into this adapter and the controller has some kind of built in surround sound feature. I'll be buying this on the day it comes out and plugging in my Philips X1 + BoomPro. It will be a nice compliment to my Astro 5.8 I have connected to my PS4.


 
  
 Eventually devices like the Astro may not be needed at all. Since the PS4 has AMD TrueAudio and can stream audio into the controller, then it too could eventually get wireless sound without the need of an external DSP unless you specifically want different processing.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> Eventually devices like the Astro may not be needed at all. Since the PS4 has AMD TrueAudio and can stream audio into the controller, then it too could eventually get wireless sound without the need of an external DSP unless you specifically want different processing.


 
 I can only hope PS4 releases a device that's similar. I'm thinking if Microsoft's adapter sells well, Sony will follow in their footsteps. I wonder if it will be as good if not better at surround sound/positioning than what Astro has put out.


----------



## Change is Good

Let's liven this place a little, ladies...
  
 I know most of you are PC beasts... but here is my console setup at the moment.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 K612 was shipped off for recabling... so it's the 1540 playing both roles for now...


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> Let's liven this place a little, ladies...
> 
> I know most of you are PC beasts... but here is my console setup at the moment.
> 
> ...


 

 Out of curisity how does the SRH-1540 sound compared to the K612. I know it's comparing closed verses open. I'm just curious about the Shure's sound signature with the K612 as a baseline.
  
 Are you getting a dual-entry recable?


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I can only hope PS4 releases a device that's similar. I'm thinking if Microsoft's adapter sells well, Sony will follow in their footsteps. I wonder if it will be as good if not better at surround sound/positioning than what Astro has put out.


 
  
 Is this the device you were talking about? It looks like that adapter is stereo only. If that's the case you'd still want something like the Mixamp to pair with the controller to get surround. The PS4 could potentially do this without any adapter since the controller accepts standard 3.5mm.


----------



## haxfar

What would be some good headsets/-phones if one want to limit possible extra parts?
 I'm looking into making a mITX build with either ASUS Maximus VI Impact, MSI Z87I Gaming AC or whatever next generation equivalent is, so a soundcard is not really an option (and hopefully not needed).
  
 So far the PLYR 1 seems most interesting, though I'm a bit concerned about some comments in regards to it's comfort.
 Next is the DT 990/770, but the prospect of possible having to get an amp turns me slightly off.
 I've considered the Sennheiser 350 SE or 360, but both seems to having comments of boring(?) bass.
 Lastly I also have considered the Turtle Beach Ear Force Z Seven and MMX 300.
  
 I currently have a G35 and have had an Icemat (current Steelseries) Siberia, so that is what I have experience with to compare.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> Out of curisity how does the SRH-1540 sound compared to the K612. I know it's comparing closed verses open. I'm just curious about the Shure's sound signature with the K612 as a baseline.
> 
> Are you getting a dual-entry recable?


 
  
*Grenades* to oranges, my friend, not even apples lol. One is a technically refined, borderline basshead of a beast... while the other is its budget neutral counterpart. I can't compare the two, specifically, because I never took the time to critique both (side by side)... so I'd rather steer from giving any false comparisons/distinctions.
  
 And no, the K612 will be more in line of something like this... 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 ... so it's not really recabling (my bad choice of words). More like re-terminating, so to say, so I could use my AKG cable I already have and not have to pay for a DIY.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> Is this the device you were talking about? It looks like that adapter is stereo only. If that's the case you'd still want something like the Mixamp to pair with the controller to get surround. The PS4 could potentially do this without any adapter since the controller accepts standard 3.5mm.


The controller itself is what makes the magic happen and not the adapter. The adapter only allows any headset to work with the Xbox One.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> The controller itself is what makes the magic happen and not the adapter. The adapter only allows any headset to work with the Xbox One.


 
  
 Ah, ok. I just re-read your original post and I interpreted it differently. I thought you had said that the adapter made the surround. Now it makes more sense.


----------



## Zeppelin-2k

Hi guys. I mentioned previously I might buy the DT990's as an intro to the hi-fi world. Before I make a decision though, I was wondering if I could get some suggestions on similar closed headphones, also in the $150-$200 range. I want it moslty for non-competitive gaming, and electronic (sometimes classic rock) music... something with nice, full bass that doesn't overdue it or skimp on other aspects. I was thinking about the AT A900x, but many have complained about comfort. Any suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I gamed a bit with the DNA On ear. Surprisingly competent. After fully extending the arms, they don't torture my ears as much, so I can see this being a decent headset with the Vmoda Boom Pro (which will arrive at my house on Thursday). Played some Ghosts with the DNA, and I could pick up positional cues relatively well. Certainly well enough for the few times I game with a mic. Soundstage is definitely on the smaller side, certainly, but it's not a complete loss.

I can hear a definite bass tilt on the DNA, but it's not sloppy and everything after seems in line with one another. I which the DNA could've had the same signature as the DNA Pro which is definitely superior in every aspect.

Dropping off the A30s at UPS tomorrow morning. Here's hoping the replacement is noticeably better than what I heard with these.

In other news... as i was trying to compare the DNA Pro with the On Ear, the right cup snapped off on the DNA Pro. Like... the plastic went FLYING.

Now... I'm not a brute. The only headphone I have ever personally butchered was my PX100-II (totally my fault). Also had a crappy Turtle Beach headset which snapped off a cup as soon as I took it out of its packaging for the first time.

So...yeah. I do wear the DNA Pro fully extended, and they are a very tight, clampy fit. Tight enough that the strain of it being on my head snapped off the plastic...

So...I don't know what else to say. It was quite jarring to have a piece of the headphone become a projectile.

I have since wrapped it up in tape... and on the bright side... the headphone isn't pressing in so hard, and still feels secure. Not pretty... but it's working. It's actually more comfortable now, and I may actually start using it more, since it's not wrecking my skull.

The DNA on ear seems to have a better design, as the pivoting point is at the cup, and not the headband, so there is no stress to the cups, where most pressure would normally be.

I seriously am at a loss for words. All I can say is that the build quality needs work on the DNA pro. Most of the ones I've seen at Best Buy stores have broken pieces.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> So I gamed a bit with the DNA On ear. Surprisingly competent. After fully extending the arms, they don't torture my ears as much, so I can see this being a decent headset with the Vmoda Boom Pro (which will arrive at my house on Thursday). Played some Ghosts with the DNA, and I could pick up positional cues relatively well. Certainly well enough for the few times I game with a mic. Soundstage is definitely on the smaller side, certainly, but it's not a complete loss.
> 
> I can hear a definite bass tilt on the DNA, but it's not sloppy and everything after seems in line with one another. I which the DNA could've had the same signature as the DNA Pro which is definitely superior in every aspect.
> 
> ...




Hmm, why am I not surprised :rolleyes:
The plastic always felt cheap and unreliable IMO, compared to other well built plastic cans.


----------



## chicolom

nokami said:


> I would really like to know if the PC360 is a sidegrade or a worth upgrade over the A40s? I mean it is worth to drop A40 for Pc360s for that price. Simply for competetive gaming...


 
  
 For competitive PC360 is an upgrade.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> So...yeah. I do wear the DNA Pro fully extended, and they are a very tight, clampy fit. Tight enough that* the strain of it being on my head snapped off the plastic...*


 
  
 What....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The area I pointed to... due to the headphone being fully extended, the exposed arm that goes INTO this area was pressing outwards. That piece of the plastic literally shot out when I heard the snap. Hit my wall with some speed...

Testing the other side that isn't broken, you can see the plastic flex a bit. It is a definite point of weakness, and it's no wonder I see so many broken DNA pros. Monster nailed the sound quality, but the next iteration needs some build quality improvements. I can see this happening to more than just me.


----------



## DADDYDC650

MLE, I hope you mention the crap build quality in your review. That's just horrible...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I read back the review... and god must be sadistic, as I specifically mention that being a potential weak point... only to have it happen to me a few weeks later.

I just think that the DNA Pro needs to be babied. I don't like babying anything. I expect some durability, especially at that price point. Not even the MA900s seem that frail. They look the part, but have been solid overall.

I'll have to be particularly careful with the DNA On Ear, as I don't want a repeat.

I'll update the review to reflect this. I don't think it's CRAPPY build quality overall. It's just an obvious point of weakness, especially if you have a bigger head and need to wear them fully extended. the plastoc flex at the weak point is a clear warning sign, that you need to be careful with it.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Let's liven this place a little, ladies...
> 
> K612 was shipped off for recabling... so it's the 1540 playing both roles for now...




I was looking at the 1540 as my closed option for home use. General thought on it? Also, how the soundstage, directional accuracy, and general thoughts on using it for competitive gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

daddydc650 said:


> Microsoft is going to release a an adapter that plugs into the Xbox One controller for $25. Apparently any headset will be able to plug into this adapter and the controller has some kind of built in surround sound feature. I'll be buying this on the day it comes out and plugging in my Philips X1 + BoomPro. It will be a nice compliment to my Astro 5.8 I have connected to my PS4.



I wonder if the current external devices were not supported (DDL through Optical) at the Xbox One's launch to encourage people not to buy more mixamp/DSS things, so that customers could be blown away by Microsoft's first-party system once released?



axelcloris said:


> Eventually devices like the Astro may not be needed at all. Since the PS4 has AMD TrueAudio and can stream audio into the controller, then it too could eventually get wireless sound without the need of an external DSP unless you specifically want different processing.



Yeah, but games have to be specifically coded to include TrueAudio support. I don't even know for sure if the PS4 version of Thief will have it (though the PC version will). Does anybody have details about XBox One's "sphere" audio processing? Are games going to have to be built to support "Sphere," or will it at least be able to convert home-theater 5.1/7.1 surround into headphone surround? The second option is not built-in to either console, at least not on the current firmware. IMO, external surround processors will still have their place if they can offer better DAC and Amps (and perhaps features, such as chat/game audio mixing) than what is built into a controller.







daddydc650 said:


> So, I called the MS Store to get a return shipping label for my Astro 5.8 + a30 bundle and the rep told me that instead of returning them, I can keep them and get a refund of $60 to my Visa. I canceled my Gold PS4 headset order as soon as I hung up the phone. So I got the Astro 5.8 with the a30's for basically $60 after taxes. Deal! I guess I can live without being completely wireless for the price and the fact that I don't have to have inferior sound with the Gold PS4 headset and be able to use my Philips X1's. Awesome!



First, let's cheer for Mad for finally going through Astro support 
That said, your post will be the elephant in the room. Was it just as easy as calling the MS Store? I fully intended to sell or gift my A30's, and I might even get more than $60 for them. But reselling a properly functional headset might not be worth the time. I was contacted back by an Astro rep, and it reads like an automated response almost on the level of "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" From the show IT Crowd. To paraphrase, they said 


> "Try plugging your Mixamp into a PC, and let us know if the issue persists. Also, check the firmware on your Mixamp. Directions are on your quick setup guide. PLEASE INCLUDE THE FIRMWARE VERSION INSTALLED IN YOUR MIXAMP IN YOUR EMAIL REPLY."



The setup guide shows the Mixamp connected to PC via Optical and the PC/PSN chat cable, I don't think either of these would communicate the firmware back to my PC. Astro doesn't even show Mixamp 5.8 support or firmware on their page anymore, so even if I bought a male-to-male USB cable I don't know if the A50's transmitter firmware is compatible.
So, as much as my current problem is isolated to the defective A30, I wonder/worry if chat will work with the PS4. I like chat, I think the chat integration is the best feature of Astro's products, the social aspect is what has kept me from getting bored with gaming. When I get automated tech support that doesn't have any association to my description of the problem, talked to in all caps, no legacy support pages online, and DOA defective products... I get all frown-y faced. I'm sure I'll figure something out, though.


----------



## dakanao

How do the Shure SRH-1540's sound with gaming?


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> I was looking at the 1540 as my closed option for home use. General thought on it? Also, how the soundstage, directional accuracy, and general thoughts on using it for competitive gaming?






dakanao said:


> How do the Shure SRH-1540's sound with gaming?




Your posts aren't being ignored fellas. Just a real busy day, today. I promise to be back with specific impressions for you guys. I'm not ideal at accurately describing what I hear, but I'll do my best. 

Who thinks Mad should review my pair of 1540s?!?


----------



## xela3

I'm currently using the AKG Q701 with a mixamp for the xbox one but now that the headset adapters are coming out soon my friends are getting that and wont be using skype anymore so does anyone here know a way to use a different mic on the xbox one so I won't have to go back to using a normal gaming headset.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Evshrug, I had returned a 5.8/a30 bundle before but this time, I told the MS Store rep that I just didn't want the second order. That's when she offered me the half off deal. 
  
 Onto another subject, I did a small test in regards to chat volume on the PS4. I noticed that if I disconnect the TB PS4 chat cable from the controller, the chat volume gets pretty damn loud but as soon as I connect the cable again, the chat goes back down to a normal level. Sony needs to fix this crap as soon as possible. This shouldn't be happening. It's almost as if the chat level is about a 50-70 percent volume level but when I disconnect the cable, it's at 100 percent.


----------



## MrBounce

daddydc650 said:


> Onto another subject, I did a small test in regards to chat volume on the PS4. I noticed that if I disconnect the TB PS4 chat cable from the controller, the chat volume gets pretty damn loud but as soon as I connect the cable again, the chat goes back down to a normal level. Sony needs to fix this crap as soon as possible. This shouldn't be happening. It's almost as if the chat level is about a 50-70 percent volume level but when I disconnect the cable, it's at 100 percent.


 
 Isn't that because when you disconnect an audio peripheral from the PS4, the audio volume slider under... devices? sound and screen? (I forget where it was) goes back down to 50% (ie. default)? It doesn't retain the setting when you unplug and plug back in your headphone / headset / mic. So you have to constantly go back and readjust it to 100% or whatever setting you want it to be when you plug things back in.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mrbounce said:


> Isn't that because when you disconnect an audio peripheral from the PS4, the audio volume slider under... devices? sound and screen? (I forget where it was) goes back down to 50% (ie. default)? It doesn't retain the setting when you unplug and plug back in your headphone / headset / mic. So you have to constantly go back and readjust it to 100% or whatever setting you want it to be when you plug things back in.


 
 No because at least on my end, it's always at 100 percent. I never see the slider go down to 50 percent. Perhaps that issue only occurs using the 2013 mixamp?


----------



## johnman1116

You probably have been asked this before but I just noticed that you havent reviewed a V moda, either m80 or m100, atleast on this thread. Is there a specific reason?
  
 Thanks,
 John


----------



## motorwayne

With all this console talk, I remembered a situation in Dayz recently, where a player inadvertently mentioned he was using a controller, well!, that changed the current friendly encounter into one of disastrously fatal consequences.
  
 Just sayin. 
  
  
 =subz= <--runs for cover!


----------



## pervysage

daddydc650 said:


> Microsoft is going to release a an adapter that plugs into the Xbox One controller for $25. Apparently any headset will be able to plug into this adapter and the controller has some kind of built in surround sound feature. I'll be buying this on the day it comes out and plugging in my Philips X1 + BoomPro. It will be a nice compliment to my Astro 5.8 I have connected to my PS4.


 
  
 Where are you getting your info?
  
 As far as I know, there are no "surround sound" features in the controller itself or the chat adapter. 
  
 Microsoft's $25 official stereo chat adapter and the $80 stereo headset (that comes with the chat adapter included) are both stereo products.
  
 The stereo chat adapter will pass through STEREO game audio to either the Microsoft Stereo Headset, or ANY other stereo headphone you want to hook up using the included 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable.
  
 In the case of Astro Mixamp users, you simply hook up using the 2.5mm port on the chat adapter and there is a button on the adapter that allows you to set it to "chat-only mode". In this mode, you still need to feed your Astro Mixamp from the Optical port of the Xbox One (keep in mind that Dolby Digital 5.1 still isn't supported yet for the Optical port).
  
 I believe Microsoft's Stereo Headset is the only device at the moment that can do mic chat and stereo game audio simultaneously using ONLY the controller... no need to hook up audio cables to the Xbox One. Not sure if a Philips X1 with boom pro will be able to do both simultaneously... depends on how it works.


----------



## damstr

Alright so I just got my Antlion 2.3 Modmic the other day and I really really like it but I'm having some problems and I'm not sure where its stemming from. The problem is I can barely hear other people talking. Only when the game is quite can I hear what people are saying. Turning my Mixamp all the way to voice just turns the game volume down but doesn't actually make the voices louder like it should. Yes I have the volume all the way up on chat adapter before anyone asks. 

First of all here is my setup. 

Xbox One
DT990 Pro 250ohm
Fiio E17 
2010-11 A40 Mixamp 
Antlion Mod Mic
Hacked Chat adapter

Like I said I can barely hear people. I'm not sure if its the Mixamp or what. I also have a 2013 Mixamp that I tried out last night and the voices were slightly louder but still quite. It gets to the point where I have to turn the game volume down so low that I can't hear whats going on. 

Someone said it was my hacked chat adapter but I used it before with a different mic (zalman clip on) and other peoples voices were really loud. I doubt it would be the Modmic making peoples voices quite would it?


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Your posts aren't being ignored fellas. Just a real busy day, today. I promise to be back with specific impressions for you guys. I'm not ideal at accurately describing what I hear, but I'll do my best.


 
 Have a couple other inquiries out in other threads, but I think I understand your preferences, so hearing your thought when you have time will be helpful for me.
  


> Who thinks Mad should review my pair of 1540s?!?


 
 Well absolutely, but there's lot of things I have stumbled across that should be in here when talking specifically about gaming, but aren't. We'll see.


----------



## DADDYDC650

pervysage said:


> Where are you getting your info?
> 
> As far as I know, there are no "surround sound" features in the controller itself or the chat adapter.
> 
> ...


 
 Go to the bottom of the page and it will be under "Notes on Audio Quality". https://infogr.am/xbox-one-headset-solutions?src=web
  
 The Polk Audio 4Shot headset as well as the Turtle Beach XO Seven have no receiver and no extra cables other than the Xbox One stereo adapter yet they state that it does surround sound. That surround sound has to come from somewhere.


----------



## pervysage

damstr said:


> Alright so I just got my Antlion 2.3 Modmic the other day and I really really like it but I'm having some problems and I'm not sure where its stemming from. The problem is I can barely hear other people talking. Only when the game is quite can I hear what people are saying. Turning my Mixamp all the way to voice just turns the game volume down but doesn't actually make the voices louder like it should. Yes I have the volume all the way up on chat adapter before anyone asks.
> 
> First of all here is my setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The fact that you said moving the Voice/Game Sound dial has no effect whatsoever on the chat volume makes me think you have chat coming through "speakers" and not through your controller. Did you uncheck the box under Kinect settings where it says "Use Kinect for Voice Chat"?


----------



## damstr

pervysage said:


> The fact that you said moving the Voice/Game Sound dial has no effect whatsoever on the chat volume makes me think you have chat coming through "speakers" and not through your controller. Did you uncheck the box under Kinect settings where it says "Use Kinect for Voice Chat"?



 


I did not uncheck that but I know its not using the Kinect for voice since I was in a game of Ghosts and unless you are in a party the kinect will not transmit your voice to the lobby and I was talking to people in the game.

Also on the adapter if I click the mute button the light comes on which means if I'm not mistaken that the Xbox knows that chat adapter is plugged in and not using the Kinect.

Just to be clear, if I'm able to talk to people via the mod mic then the chat isn't coming through the speakers but rather the controller correct?


----------



## pervysage

daddydc650 said:


> Go to the bottom of the page and it will be under "Notes on Audio Quality". https://infogr.am/xbox-one-headset-solutions?src=web
> 
> The Polk Audio 4Shot headset as well as the Turtle Beach XO Seven have no receiver and no extra cables other than the Xbox One stereo adapter yet they state that it does surround sound. That surround sound has to come from somewhere.


 
  
 As soon as I went to that link I had the impression that those guys don't know what they are talking about. Sure enough at the bottom of their page, "Disclaimer: ​This information is an interpretation of the official Microsoft Headset Adapter page and Major Nelson's blog, so all of the information may not be technically correct."
  
But I could always be wrong too. But since all indications point to the controller outputting stereo sound only, any headsets that depend on that controller connection will be stereo as well unless they have some sort of build in surround mixer. Or Turtle Beach will just include those wireless transmitters that do the surround mixing.
  
Anyways, I looked at the Turtle Beach website and found it odd that they don't advertise the XO Seven or XO Four being surround sound AT ALL... like there is no mention of it lol. All of their other headsets clearly state them being surround, but not the XO's.
  
As for the Polk 4Shot, they don't seem to be advertised as surround headphones at all. I don't think those are meant to be surround headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

johnman1116 said:


> You probably have been asked this before but I just noticed that you havent reviewed a V moda, either m80 or m100, atleast on this thread. Is there a specific reason?
> 
> Thanks,
> John


 
  
 Gaming on the M-80s isn't bad for non-competitive. The soundstage is small and positional queues aren't amazing. But it's a wonderful sounding headphone. It's been a while since I gamed with mine. Mine usually gets 40 hours a week head time at the office and rarely leaves my desk and its paired E7.


----------



## pervysage

damstr said:


> pervysage said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that you said moving the Voice/Game Sound dial has no effect whatsoever on the chat volume makes me think you have chat coming through "speakers" and not through your controller. Did you uncheck the box under Kinect settings where it says "Use Kinect for Voice Chat"?
> ...


 
  
 Hmm... I would uncheck the Kinect Voice Chat setting just to be safe.
  
 But the fact that you are able to chat in Ghosts lobbies with your Modmic... then the voice chat should be coming through your controller.
  
 So when you turn the knob towards VOICE on the Mixamp, everything goes silent? And when you turn the knob towards GAME, both voice and game chat are getting louder at the same time?
  
 Sure sounds like voice chat is coming through speakers and not the controller like it should be.
  
 Uncheck that box and give it a try.


----------



## MrBounce

daddydc650 said:


> No because at least on my end, it's always at 100 percent. I never see the slider go down to 50 percent. Perhaps that issue only occurs using the 2013 mixamp?


 
  
 Strange, it happens to me every single time regardless of whether I'm using Son'y mono-earphone + mic that came with the PS4 as well as when I'm using the Mixamp 2013 with the Slyr or the MA900. Whenever I disconnect the headset the volume automatically drops to the default 50%. It's pretty annoying.
  
   Quote:


daddydc650 said:


> Go to the bottom of the page and it will be under "Notes on Audio Quality". https://infogr.am/xbox-one-headset-solutions?src=web
> 
> The Polk Audio 4Shot headset as well as the Turtle Beach XO Seven have no receiver and no extra cables other than the Xbox One stereo adapter yet they state that it does surround sound. That surround sound has to come from somewhere.


 
  
 But it says in the blurb you pointed out that "The *Headset Adapter outputs stereo audio*, but it is unknown if that is simulated stereo from a 5.1/7.1 signal at this moment (a* Polk employee posted that the Xbox One simulates surround sound before sending the audio to the controller*, no other sources yet)."

 So it's the console that's doing the surround sound and sending it to the controller.
 (Whenever MS releases the surround sound patch to allow the console to do it, that is.)


----------



## DADDYDC650

pervysage said:


> As soon as I went to that link I had the impression that those guys don't know what they are talking about. Sure enough at the bottom of their page, "Disclaimer: ​This information is an interpretation of the official Microsoft Headset Adapter page and Major Nelson's blog, so all of the information may not be technically correct."
> 
> But I could always be wrong too. But since all indications point to the controller outputting stereo sound only, any headsets that depend on that controller connection will be stereo as well unless they have some sort of build in surround mixer. Or Turtle Beach will just include those wireless transmitters that do the surround mixing.
> 
> Anyways, I looked at the Turtle Beach website and found it odd that they don't advertise the XO Seven or XO Four being surround sound AT ALL... like there is no mention of it lol. All of their other headsets clearly state them being surround, but not the XO's.


 
 Seems like nobody knows for sure what the hell Microsoft's plans are. I do know for sure that my Philips X1 + BoomPro should work fine with the stereo adapter. Nobody knows for sure about their surround sound plans for headsets. 
  
 As for the Turtle Beach XO Seven, Amazon is advertising it as having surround sound. Polk and Turtle Beach both claim that their headsets do surround sound according to their reps.
  
 Apparently there's an audio chip inside the Xbox One (dubbed SHAPE) which does all the processing. The sound is processed by the Xbox One, transmitted by Wi-Fi direct to the controller, and then transmitted to the headphones by a cable.


----------



## damstr

pervysage said:


> Hmm... I would uncheck the Kinect Voice Chat setting just to be safe.
> 
> But the fact that you are able to chat in Ghosts lobbies with your Modmic... then the voice chat should be coming through your controller.
> 
> ...



 

I'll try it. I tried turning the game volume up and the game volume gets louder but I can't tell if the voice is getting louder as well. 

At the 50/50 I can pretty much not hear anyone at all. I can see they are talking but nothing is audible on my end. I have to turn the knob to voice so it ends up being like 40 game 60 voice. 

I'll try checking the kinect voice chat box when I get home. Appreciate the help. I'm stumped as to what it could be.


----------



## DADDYDC650

mrbounce said:


> Strange, it happens to me every single time regardless of whether I'm using Son'y mono-earphone + mic that came with the PS4 as well as when I'm using the Mixamp 2013 with the Slyr or the MA900. Whenever I disconnect the headset the volume automatically drops to the default 50%. It's pretty annoying.
> 
> 
> But it says in the blurb you pointed out that "The *Headset Adapter outputs stereo audio*, but it is unknown if that is simulated stereo from a 5.1/7.1 signal at this moment (a* Polk employee posted that the Xbox One simulates surround sound before sending the audio to the controller*, no other sources yet)."
> ...


 
 Yeah, I was misinformed in regards to how the surround sound works. Apparently, there's an audio chip in the Xbox One that will handle the work and then transmit the data to the wireless controller.


----------



## chicolom

damstr said:


> Just to be clear, if I'm able to talk to people via the mod mic then the chat isn't coming through the speakers but rather the controller correct?


 
  
  
 Not sure if the Xbox one has changed in this regards since the 360, but on 360 you can have a mic plugged into the controller and still have voice playback "through speakers" - in which case the mixamp will have no control over the volume as it gets routed along with the game's volume to the main audio output (optical in this case).  If you set it play "through headset" then it will route the voice audio through the controllers 2.5mm port and let the mixamp control it.


----------



## pervysage

chicolom said:


> Not sure if the Xbox one has changed in this regards since the 360, but on 360 you can have a mic plugged into the controller and still have voice playback "through speakers" - in which case the mixamp will have no control over the volume as it gets routed along with the game's volume to the main audio output (optical in this case).  If you set it play "through headset" then it will route the voice audio through the controllers 2.5mm port and let the mixamp control it.


 
  
 That's the problem with the Xbox One right now... 360 system updates came so far since the time it first came out. With the Xbox One it's like they took a HUGE step backwards and left out tons of features.... I just don't get it. They are just NOW releasing a system update sometime this week just so that we can have a damn battery indicator showing how much battery our controllers have left. Also being added is the ability to see and manage your storage on the hard drive. These are both features that should have shipped with the console.
  
 Anyways... on the Xbox One it doesn't give you the option to play voice through speakers or headsets or both.... which really sucks. The way it is right now, if you have a headset connected to the controller, it should route everything through there. If not, voice will be sent through speakers. There are no options to really customize the way voice chat is done.


----------



## DADDYDC650

pervysage said:


> That's the problem with the Xbox One right now... 360 system updates came so far since the time it first came out. With the Xbox One it's like they took a HUGE step backwards and left out tons of features.... I just don't get it. They are just NOW releasing a system update sometime this week just so that we can have a damn battery indicator showing how much battery our controllers have left. Also being added is the ability to see and manage your storage on the hard drive. These are both features that should have shipped with the console.
> 
> Anyways... on the Xbox One it doesn't give you the option to play voice through speakers or headsets or both.... which really sucks. The way it is right now, if you have a headset connected to the controller, it should route everything through there. If not, voice will be sent through speakers. There are no options to really customize the way voice chat is done.


 
 They rushed the Xbox One to compete with the PS4. That's why it's missing a bunch of features. Plain and simple.


----------



## pervysage

daddydc650 said:


> They rushed the Xbox One to compete with the PS4. That's why it's missing a bunch of features. Plain and simple.


 
  
 I suppose.
  
 That's the reason one of the MS employees gave for not having Dolby Digital 5.1 over Optical at launch. Not enough time.


----------



## Evshrug

johnman1116 said:


> You probably have been asked this before but I just noticed that you havent reviewed a V moda, either m80 or m100, atleast on this thread. Is there a specific reason?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John



John,
Most of Mad's reviews have been on headphones he's bought out of pocket. Also, he specifically doesn't like most closed headphones or pleather Earpads, so it just hasn't grabbed his interest enough to drop $300 on them. Speculation though, if V-MODA sent him a pair, he might check them out.



daddydc650 said:


> Go to the bottom of the page and it will be under "Notes on Audio Quality". https://infogr.am/xbox-one-headset-solutions?src=web
> 
> The Polk Audio 4Shot headset as well as the Turtle Beach XO Seven have no receiver and no extra cables other than the Xbox One stereo adapter yet they state that it does surround sound. That surround sound has to come from somewhere.



I'll have to read your link, but I could see both of you two being right. The adapter outputs stereo... but if that stereo was already processed by the "Sphere DSP" built into the XBO, then a standard stereo jack would be all that is needed for surround. Games would just have to be coded to take advantage of this, OR the console would need a firmware update to translate home-theater surround to headphone *in-console*.


----------



## damstr

pervysage said:


> Hmm... I would uncheck the Kinect Voice Chat setting just to be safe.
> 
> But the fact that you are able to chat in Ghosts lobbies with your Modmic... then the voice chat should be coming through your controller.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh yeah I just realized when I got home I don't even have the Kinect plugged in.
  
 But yes when I turn it all the way to voice all I can hear is people talking and its not loud at all.


----------



## pervysage

damstr said:


> Oh yeah I just realized when I got home I don't even have the Kinect plugged in.
> 
> But yes when I turn it all the way to voice all I can hear is people talking and its not loud at all.


 
  
 I'm guessing it might be an issue with your modded chat adapter? How did you do it, soldering or just cutting the wires and twisting them together?
  
 My best guess is that one of the wires (blue or black) aren't attached properly, causing you to only get half the sound you are supposed to get. Black and blue are the wires for the voice chat going to your headset.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MDR-HW700DS
  
 http://www.sony.jp/headphone/products/MDR-HW700DS/feature_1.html
  
 They should start building such units with flexibility in mind, letting people decide to use their own headphones with it.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> Have a couple other inquiries out in other threads, but I think I understand your preferences, so hearing your thought when you have time will be helpful for me.


 
  
 Okay, sorry for the delay...
  
 The 1540 falls more in line with the 440 and 840, rather than the much brighter 940, 1440, and 1840. i've only owned the 840 and 1840, but FWIR about the others I believe my assumptions to be somewhat accurate about the other Shures. I know you tend to prefer brighter headphones, so the 1540 may not be quite in line for you. That's not not a knock on the 1540's treble, it's still extremely detailed... it just doesn't have that spike up top like its predecessors.
  
 The mids are linear... pretty much dead even, though not recessed... but to those who are used to forward mids of AKGs, Mad Dogs, MA900 and the like might find the 1540's vocals to be a bit pushed back.
  
 And then there's the bass. Man, DAT BASS! It's not basshead material, but pretty borderline if you ask me. It's punchy, extends deep, and does not bleed into the mids at all (to my ears, at least). Now, remember, I'm used to forward mids and lean bass myself... so try to believe me when I make that statement.
  
 Oh, soundstage! Not the ideal choice for competitive gaming... but yes, the soundstage is above average for a closed headphone. I've tried quite a few, and it has one of the largest soundstages I've heard in a closed headphone. Definitely larger than the 840, and almost on par with the Soundmagic HP100. I would like to add, though, that the K545 might be THE BEST soundstage I heard in a closed headphone (judging from the one driver that worked).
  
*Disclaimer:* These brief impressions are solely based on the 1540 with alpha pads on. While the alcantaras are much more comfortable, the alpha pads refine the 1540's sound signature to the point where I much prefer that over comfort.


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Okay, sorry for the delay...
> 
> The 1540 falls more in line with the 440 and 840, rather than the much brighter 940, 1440, and 1840. i've only owned the 840 and 1840, but FWIR about the others I believe my assumptions to be somewhat accurate about the other Shures. I know you tend to prefer brighter headphones, so the 1540 may not be quite in line for you. That's not not a knock on the 1540's treble, it's still extremely detailed... it just doesn't have that spike up top like its predecessors.
> 
> ...


 
 How do vocals sound with the Alcatra pads on? Are they forward with the Alcatra pads?


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> How do vocals sound with the Alcatra pads on? Are they forward with the Alcatra pads?


 
  
 No, the spectrum is the same... just less refined.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Okay, sorry for the delay...
> 
> The 1540 falls more in line with the 440 and 840, rather than the much brighter 940, 1440, and 1840. i've only owned the 840 and 1840, but FWIR about the others I believe my assumptions to be somewhat accurate about the other Shures. I know you tend to prefer brighter headphones, so the 1540 may not be quite in line for you. That's not not a knock on the 1540's treble, it's still extremely detailed... it just doesn't have that spike up top like its predecessors.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Good impressions. Considering the initial praise everyone is giving these and who it's coming from, I think I'm going to try them out. I've also heard of people extending the treble by throwing on the SRH940 pads onto them, so I might try that later down the line.
  
 Personal note: I might be in a slight transition with preferences right now towards something warmer. Surprisingly enough, the HD 600 (a can I originally didn't like for being too warm) has been getting a workout lately. Nothing like my HD 700, but it's definitely not collecting dust how it was before. Those two really compliment each other well. We'll see how that works out. Still, I'm a soundstage and detail retrieval whore.
  
 That being the case and considering your comments, can't wait until you get a working K545.


----------



## retiredat21

short question..... is it justifiable to buy a q701 even if I already have a Fidelio X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Vmoda Boom Pro works like a dream. The DNA on ear is pretty competent, even if they are tilted towards bass. Nothing like the HP800 which was veiled and too bassy. Gotta say, these are reallh good, though not on the level of the DNA Pro.


----------



## SaLX

retiredat21 said:


> short question..... is it justifiable to buy a q701 even if I already have a Fidelio X1?


 
 Pondered that myself.... thing is though: with a PC you can EQ out the bass and tickle the mids to get a good gaming/fps profile on the Fidelio. Knucklehead console users, with their 2001: A Space Odyssey opening scene's Mixamp's don't get those options. PC's for the win!!!!!!!!!
  
 Cheekily runs away as fast as he can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.


----------



## EyeCentric

Just curious, where did you get 70% off isn't retail 129.99? I was considering purchasing yours but didn't get that...


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> The Vmoda Boom Pro works like a dream. The DNA on ear is pretty competent, even if they are tilted towards bass. Nothing like the HP800 which was veiled and too bassy. Gotta say, these are reallh good, though not on the level of the DNA Pro.


 
 Isn't it lovely? I really didn't think I'd be able to turn my Philips X1 into a headset. I figured I'd have to have two wires attached to me for game sound and voice chat. Loving this combo and I'm sure your combo is also awesome. It sure looks like it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgJ5zA2VYLU[/VIDEO]

I've been slacking on Youtube uploads, so here...


----------



## Quietsy

Thanks for the review Emily!
 Do you also experience static noise when the mic is connected to the PC?
 Can you use the mic without the Y adapter on a PC or will it only work on phones?


----------



## conquerator2

Damn the K612s imaging is sublime. It's so easy to pinpoint where things are, while keeping the immersion great too...
I am sure it'd get around 9 for competitive and around 8 for immersion.
The soundstage is circular too rather than wide which helps with front/rear cues. 
They get more comfy as the pads soften up. Around an 8 for me but possibly more for others.
I really hope MLE will get hold of them sometime. 
I'd send him a loaner myself but they are my go-to cans right now ;/
Perhaps later or someone else can?


----------



## Snatchmo

Hi guys
First of all I want to thank Mad Lust for this phenomenal thread that helps me a lot. 
I’m currently exchanging my “normal” Gaming Headset equipment (Sharkoon XTatic-SR) with something which is more “mature”. 
The equipment will be used with my Xbox One.
I already bought my Beyerdynamic DT990 Edition (250 OHM) and I’m pretty happy with the stereo sound when it’s connected to my AVR (Onkyo 818).
Next step is to buy the Mixamp 2013 + external mic in order to receive digital surround (DH) again and to be able to use voice chat with volume balancing. 
So far so good… 
But now comes the point where I’m getting nervy – the headphone amp:

I’m not sure whether to buy a stationary or portable amp. Current favorite is the FiiO e12. 
As I’m using it only at home I don’t know if it makes sense to choose a portable one also because of the battery charging. Otherwise I could imagine that it is annoying to stand up and walk to the TV rack for volume control. Then again you would have lots of cables messing up the room if you would position the MixAmp and the FiiO next to your seating. How do you guys fix this issue? What is your compromise? What is your cable management?

Thanks for your support!


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: Mad Lust Envy






mad lust envy said:


> I've been slacking on Youtube uploads, so here...


 
  


  
 Can you do a mic test video with the V-Moda BoomPro because there are none on the internet at the moment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get on my twitch feed. I'll play some CoD. So you can see how well it works. Its on my sig.


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: Mad Lust Envy






mad lust envy said:


> Get on my twitch feed. I'll play some CoD. So you can see how well it works. Its on my sig.


 
  


  

 Will do so.
  
  
 The question is whether I get this or the Antlion Modmic. I may just wait for the 4.0 version to be released and then buy that.


----------



## dakanao

What headphones should I get if I want very well controlled and texture, deep, hard hitting bass that is good with hiphop and dubstep, with very good mids, forward vocals with a lot air in them, and relaxing, but realistic treble?
  
 My price range is 400 euro's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You basically want everything. Not gonna happen. You basically asked for every single bullet point. Hard, controlled bass, forward mids, air do not mix.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> You basically want everything. Not gonna happen. You basically asked for every single bullet point. Hard, controlled bass, forward mids, air do not mix.


 
 Well, what headphone has hard, controlled bass, forward mids and relaxed treble but still manages to keep a lot of clarity at that price range?


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> You basically want everything. Not gonna happen. You basically asked for every single bullet point. Hard, controlled bass, forward mids, air do not mix.


 

 Actually it is possible. Given it's a good neutral headphone with the right system behind it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Neutral =/= hard bass, FORWARD mids, relaxed treble and air. You cant have all those things at once. Relaxed treble and air are almost always the opposites, for one. The Alpha Dog is a great headphone that comes close, but that dods not have relaxed treble. If you eq out the excess treble, you lose the air, and you essentially go to LCD2 territory.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> Neutral =/= hard bass, FORWARD mids, relaxed treble and air. You cant have all those things at once. Relaxed treble and air are almost always the opposites, for one. The Alpha Dog is a great headphone that comes close, but that dods not have relaxed treble. If you eq out the excess treble, you lose the air, and you essentially go to LCD2 territory.


 

 What you need is a neutral phone with good extension, a good soundstage, and strong dynamics. If you have strong dynamics the bass will hit hard even on a neutral phone. On relaxed treble, it depends on what you view as relaxed treble, I personally view it as treble with little to no grain and is neutral or darker.


----------



## AverageGamer

WOW this thread has grown!!!
  
 Anyways, I am sure this is asked more then the OP wanted but I am in the market for a new headphone/headset in the $300 range.
  
Here are the desires: my main use for the headset/headphone is mostly console gaming; occasional computer use as well. Besides having the ability to "hear enemy footsteps", I am also looking to get a great set of cans that will sound great when listening to music. I don't need that overwhelming, car-thumping bass effect but just looking for something that is well balanced. I was hoping for a closed set in order to immerse myself during gaming/music (I got younger children & a wife) so that I can "block" outside noise. Are closed sets available that offer what I am looking for; balanced music BUT great for gaming? 80% used for gaming but will use hear and there for music sessions. Thanks for any and all input.
  
 BTW, I currently own A40s utilized with the Astro 5.8 Mixamp. I had a pair of AD700's but returned them due to being phenomenal for gaming but not so great for music IMO.


----------



## tombomb21

what windows settings would be best for my xonar stx and phillips x1 setup in terms of positional audio. I am a keen counter-strike:go player and I and struggling with hearing footsteps at the moment.
  
 thanks


----------



## Change is Good

averagegamer said:


> WOW this thread has grown!!!
> 
> Anyways, I am sure this is asked more then the OP wanted but I am in the market for a new headphone/headset in the $300 range.
> 
> ...




I'd look into the Soundmagic HP100, Mad Dog, or even the new AKG K545 for closed options at your price range..


----------



## iamstumper

evshrug said:


> Iamstumper,
> I actually have lots of similar interests, tho substitute Scottish strings for classical and folk strings and Van Morrison (on reflection, I probably WOULD like Scottish strings). I do much enjoy my k712, they really are something special for sound that seems to not be from headphones, but they're not the only choice.
> 
> I've been through a lot of those virtual surround DSPs, a good place to start is reading my post linked in my signature (if I knew then...") cuz I've collected a lot of samples, updating more along the way as I find.


 
@Evshrug - thanks for the reply.  I read through your thread, parts of this one and the PC surround sound again, and bought the Asus Xonar U7.  Well, actually I had to buy it from Amazon UK and while waiting for it to arrive I bought the Asus Xonar U3 locally to try out.  I'm liking both immensely over my laptops on-board sound.  And as I like the software and physical device of the U7 better, I'll return the U3.  Also, if you want to try one of my favorites for Scottish fiddle & Cello try Alasdair Fraser & Natalie Haas - Fire & Grace album (can find them on Spotify).  I've seen them in person a handful of times and will continue to do so.  Brings grins and goose bumps to my arms each and every time!
  
 Next up is narrowing down the headphone, and depending on what choice(s) I go with, any additional hardware requirements.  With re-reading the various threads, I'm still leaning towards the AKG K712 pro, Alpha Dog, and newly added to my list Philips Fidelio X1.  I can't decide if I want just one headphone that will fit a majority of my needs and live with it.  Or get two.  Open vs closed.  Neutral vs lively.  Ugh, decisions!  I do know the X1's inability to replace the earpads removes it from the list if I'm going with a single set though.
  
 For those that have heard / own the K712 (or the K702 Annie) AND the Alpha Dog, would you own both?  Or they have too much overlap in sound and use?  For example, the K712 would be for gaming and music genres other than rock, hip hop, r&b; and the Alpha Dog would be movies and music genres that I don't use the K712 for?  Or substitute X1 for the Alpha Dog?
  
 Thanks all, keep up the posting!


----------



## Change is Good

Brian at Razordog confirmed the defects on my K545, and tested the replacement before shipping. Everything is good... and they should arrive tomorrow...


----------



## Change is Good

iamstumper said:


> @Evshrug
> - thanks for the reply.  I read through your thread, parts of this one and the PC surround sound again, and bought the Asus Xonar U7.  Well, actually I had to buy it from Amazon UK and while waiting for it to arrive I bought the Asus Xonar U3 locally to try out.  I'm liking both immensely over my laptops on-board sound.  And as I like the software and physical device of the U7 better, I'll return the U3.  Also, if you want to try one of my favorites for Scottish fiddle & Cello try Alasdair Fraser & Natalie Haas - Fire & Grace album (can find them on Spotify).  I've seen them in person a handful of times and will continue to do so.  Brings grins and goose bumps to my arms each and every time!
> 
> Next up is narrowing down the headphone, and depending on what choice(s) I go with, any additional hardware requirements.  With re-reading the various threads, I'm still leaning towards the AKG K712 pro, Alpha Dog, and newly added to my list Philips Fidelio X1.  I can't decide if I want just one headphone that will fit a majority of my needs and live with it.  Or get two.  Open vs closed.  Neutral vs lively.  Ugh, decisions!  I do know the X1's inability to replace the earpads removes it from the list if I'm going with a single set though.
> ...




I honestly believe the SRH1540 would be a better compliment to the K712. I had both at the same time, once, and they are perfect compliments to each other, IMO.


----------



## Stillhart

Hi all!  First of all, big thanks to MLE and the other regular posters for a spectacualrly useful thread!  I spent some time reading up and going back some 20 pages from the last post (sorry, won't read all 1300+ pages) and I like to think I'm relatively knowledgable now.  At lest enough to ask a question without it being the same question for the 100th time.
  
 So yeah, I'm looking for a wireless solution for my Xbone and after reading quite a bit I am wondering a few things:
  
 First, I read a bunch about the Xbone having a chip that will process the virtual surround and send it to the stereo port on the controller.  Has anyone been able to confirm that this is the case or do we have to wait for the update that was scheduled earlier this week?
  
 Second, assuming that *IS* the case, that would mean I can use a badass set of wired cans with a modmic and just plug it into my controller (with adaptor) to get the same virtual surround I'd get from an A50/PLYR1/etc?  Or would I not be able to use two plugs on the adaptor?  I'm a bit fuzzy on how it's supposed to work.
  
 Third, assuming it's *NOT* the case, I'd be back to square one with looking for a decent wireless solution.  After reading this thread, I was thinking that I could grab a Mixamp 5.8 and a wired headphones, then use the modmic and plug it into the controller.  Either that or pick up a A50 or PLYR 1.
  
 The 5.8 seems to be difficult to attain.  I guess I could get the A30 wireless kit from MS for $110 just for the 5.8 mixamp (price is comparable to a 2013 so not a terrible idea?).  Then get a $150 set of cans and a modmic and I'm back at approx. the $300 for the A50.
  
 How would that plan compare to just getting an A50?  Or should I just save a lot of money and get a PLYR 1?  That seemed to be rated better than the A50 at significantly cheaper.
  
 Thanks for reading through this long thing.  Appreciate any help you could provide!


----------



## DADDYDC650

stillhart said:


> Hi all!  First of all, big thanks to MLE and the other regular posters for a spectacualrly useful thread!  I spent some time reading up and going back some 20 pages from the last post (sorry, won't read all 1300+ pages) and I like to think I'm relatively knowledgable now.  At lest enough to ask a question without it being the same question for the 100th time.
> 
> So yeah, I'm looking for a wireless solution for my Xbone and after reading quite a bit I am wondering a few things:
> 
> ...


 
 The Astro a50's are way overpriced for the sound quality you are getting. Check out MLE's review on them which can be found on the front page of this thread.
  
 The PLYR 1's are a better choice and much cheaper although I'm guessing you might have to connect a cable from the headset to the Xbone controller to receive chat. That means you will have to purchase the Xbox One Stereo adapter due out later this month for $25. 
  
 Another option would be to purchase the Xbone stereo adapter and a pair of headphones with a 3.5mm detachable cable and replace the stock cable with a 3.5mm mic like the V-MODA BoomPro which can be found on Amazon for $30. In this case, you will have to make sure the headphones you purchase don't really need an amp. You will only get stereo sound until when and if Microsoft releases an audio update to ensure surround sound outputs from the console to the controller.
  
 You can also purchase the Astro 5.8/a30 bundle from Microsoft for $110 and then a seperate pair of headphones. You will have to connect the Astro 5.8 TX unit to the Xbone via optical and then the RX unit to the $25 stereo adapter which plugs into the controller for chat. Just keep in mind that the Xbone currently does not support 5.1 through optical so you will only receive a stereo signal until they release a firmware update.
  
 As for myself, I plan on connecting my Philips X1 with a V-MODA BoomPro mic into the Xbone stereo adapter and waiting for MS to release an update that will ensure the console outputs surround sound to the controller or at least provide support for 5.1 through optical.


----------



## Stillhart

daddydc650 said:


> The Astro a50's are way overpriced for the sound quality you are getting. Check out MLE's review on them which can be found on the front page of this thread.
> 
> The PLYR 1's are a better choice and much cheaper although I'm guessing you might have to connect a cable from the headset to the Xbone controller to receive chat. That means you will have to purchase the Xbox One Stereo adapter due out later this month for $25.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey thx for the thorough reply!
  
 Yeah, I read the review for the A50 and I believe it, it's just hard to wrap my head around; SO many "gamer" reviews love em.  The reviews are why I am considering the PLYR 1 instead.  That and the $25 adapter is the easy route.
  
 I'm thinking I might want to opt for the better performance route though.
  
 I really like your idea about the V-MODA BoomPro.  To be clear, that replaces the standard audio cable from headphones to controller with a new cable that includes the mic? And the connector on the controller side is the 3.5mm one with three... black stripes... so it can do audio and chat?  That seems like an amazing solution.
  
 I'll have to go back through the reviews and see which cans have the removable wire.  I think the most recent one I was considering was the Q701 and I am pretty sure that would work.  I think there are a few in the $150-200 range that are ranked much better than the PLYR1.
  
 So the only real remaining question is whether we'll get virtual surround out of the controller.  Do you think good stereo through killer cans will help with "competitive gaming" (positional audio, detail-whoring, etc) more than, say, the PLYR1 with virtual surround an just decent sound/imaging?


----------



## DADDYDC650

stillhart said:


> Hey thx for the thorough reply!
> 
> Yeah, I read the review for the A50 and I believe it, it's just hard to wrap my head around; SO many "gamer" reviews love em.  The reviews are why I am considering the PLYR 1 instead.  That and the $25 adapter is the easy route.
> 
> ...


 
 Yes, in regards to the BoomPro. It replaces the stock headphone cable and a mic is attached. It also has mute/volume control which is convenient. 
  
 I connected my Philips X1 + BoomPro to directly to my PS4 controller and booted up COD: Ghost. I really didn't have any issues with picking up enemy footsteps and such although certain headphones will perform even better with an amp.


----------



## Stillhart

daddydc650 said:


> Yes, in regards to the BoomPro. It replaces the stock headphone cable and a mic is attached. It also has mute/volume control which is convenient.
> 
> I connected my Philips X1 + BoomPro to directly to my PS4 controller and booted up COD: Ghost. I really didn't have any issues with picking up enemy footsteps and such.


 
 Does PS4 do virtual surround through the controller or just stereo?
  
 Again, thanks!  That was REALLY helpful and makes it much easier for me to make my decision.


----------



## DADDYDC650

stillhart said:


> Does PS4 do virtual surround through the controller or just stereo?
> 
> Again, thanks!  That was REALLY helpful and makes it much easier for me to make my decision.


 
 PS4 = only stereo when connected directly into the controller.


----------



## Stillhart

Okay, last question for now on the subject.  There was a lot of talk a couple days ago about the Xbone's "spere audio processor" but I can't find ANY info about the Xbone audio processing.  Does anyone have any source for this?  Is it realistic at all to expect virtual surround through the controller?  I'd think this is something they'd hype up if it were a possibility.


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart,
The XBO audio is very much a mystery... and very much crippled at this time. Astro has partnered with Monoprice to sell an HDMI pass through device WITH optical-out, and that's currently the only way to get positional surround for headphones out of an XBO (unless you have an A/V receiver).

The XBO "sphere" processor is currently only being used as a dedicated piece if hardware to process audio so that the resources aren't taken from the pool normally used for graphics and computing. Otherwise... it's as much a mystery to me as it is to you. All talk of in-console surround with the XBO is pure speculation.

I wouldn't be TOO enthused about controller audio as being a high-quality audio option.


----------



## Stillhart

I have my Xbone piping optical out to my AVR for 5.1 surround through my speakers.  Does that mean I can use one of my optical outs from the AVR to output Dolby to a Mixamp?
  
 Maybe it's time to reconsider the 5.8 option.  This would let me use the headphones with any device going through the AVR, not just the Xbone...


----------



## RazorRamen

Will you be reviewing the Sony Gold Wireless Headset?
  
 I'm debating whether to pick these up to use with my PS4 and PC, but I'm not sure if the Virtual Surround Sound works with PC or not. I've got a pair of AD700's right now, I've been thinking about picking up a mic and Astro Mixamp for the same purpose, but if the sony's are even remotely close in quality I would much prefer the cleaner wireless setup. Also, is it possible to have the Astro Mixamp hooked up to a PS4 and PC at the same time and get the virtual surround sound from both? Basically I don't want to have to switch wires back and forth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The virtual surround only works for the ps4. I'll review it if someone sends one to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright guys. I have a favor to ask...

Try to find as many headphones with detachable 3.5mm or even 2.5mm cables. Stuff like the Sennheiser Momentum on ear, which has a 2.5mm input (a cheap 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter will ensure the Vmoda BoomPro will work on it).

I just wanna have a list of headphones to use with the BoomPro.

For starters:

Philips Fidelio X1
MrSpeakers Mad Dog (not sure if the newer models use xlr)
Sennheiser Momentum (needs 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter)
Sennheiser Momentum On Ear (same as above)
VMODA M80, M100
Audio Technica M50x (!)
Monster DNA, DNA Pro
Nuforce HP800

I also believe the HD558 and 598 use 2.5mm inputs...


----------



## TMRaven

The focal spirit pro and classic.


----------



## iamstumper

Sennheiser hd590 has 2.5 connection. But would need an adapter that can fit the moulded channel. Or widen the channel.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Alright guys. I have a favor to ask...
> 
> Try to find as many headphones with detachable 3.5mm or even 2.5mm cables. Stuff like the Sennheiser Momentum on ear, which has a 2.5mm input (a cheap 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter will ensure the Vmoda BoomPro will work on it).
> 
> ...




Add the K545, my friend (2.5mm)


----------



## Allucid

I think you should add the FiiO e17 and V-MODA M100 combo on this thread.
I use both with an optical / aux output for sound and a HDMI output for video, and the sound from the cans is amazing. :basshead:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmraven said:


> The focal spirit pro and classic.




I like what I see of these at Innerfidelity.


Change, the SRH1540 has a graph that really does mimic the X1 in closed form. Looks appealing for mild bassheads.


----------



## Stillhart

The Q701 has a removable cord.  Not sure if it meets the spec requirements.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Q701 is mini XLR. There are no small mini XLR to 3.5mm adapters. 

Something this small so that the Vmoda boom pro will connect to the headphone that isn't 3.5mm.


----------



## tsine

I just spend some time with my new Creative Sound Blaster ZXR  with the K701 . The sound quality is pretty amazing compared to anything i have heard so far . 
  
 Now for surround sound .....is nothing bad i can say about it .....The positioning audio is pretty amazing with Scout Mode Enable ....The bf4 setting to Headphones/Surround ...
  
 Now the build in mic .....Nothing good i can say for it ....Very bass sounding while skyping and a little muddy and distort sound compared to logitech c120 webcam mic ....
  
 In general I am very pleased from the sound card ...its a very solid product in the market


----------



## Orodromeus

tsine said:


> I just spend some time with my new Creative Sound Blaster ZXR  with the K701 . The sound quality is pretty amazing compared to anything i have heard so far .
> 
> Now for surround sound .....is nothing bad i can say about it .....The positioning audio is pretty amazing with Scout Mode Enable ....The bf4 setting to Headphones/Surround ...
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for the info! I'm currently looking into getting a new sound card and don't know which direction to go with it 
 So many options...
 (Awesome webcam btw, right? )


----------



## bjammin71

Sony MDR-1RBT and Logitech UE6000 both have 3.5mm input jacks for detachable cords.  They should work with the BoomPro Mic. 
  
 MLE and others - thanks for all the time and work on this thread.  I love checking in here every day or two.
  
 Ben


----------



## benbenkr

razorramen said:


> Will you be reviewing the Sony Gold Wireless Headset?
> 
> I'm debating whether to pick these up to use with my PS4 and PC, but I'm not sure if the Virtual Surround Sound works with PC or not. I've got a pair of AD700's right now, I've been thinking about picking up a mic and Astro Mixamp for the same purpose, but if the sony's are even remotely close in quality I would much prefer the cleaner wireless setup. Also, is it possible to have the Astro Mixamp hooked up to a PS4 and PC at the same time and get the virtual surround sound from both? Basically I don't want to have to switch wires back and forth.


 
  
 I'm not MLE, but I currently do have the Gold for review.
  
 Only had them for 2 days but my early impressions are, they dissapoint in wireless mode — as expected. Then again, I know it's a $100 wireless headset that works both in wired and wireless modes, just that it doesn't so good when running off the PS4 or PS3.
  
 The issue is that in wireless mode, there is a lack of dynamics, as if the Gold is running with no energy. Everything is dull, too soft, muddled, and it's just; boring. This was the same reason why the Pulse Elite before was so underwhelming, even when cranked to the maximum volume.
  
 Connect the Gold (or Pulse previously) to an amp or even to the DS4, the entire headset wakes up. Unfortunately you lose funtionality when being wired of course... which brings me to the next issue; the Gold's VSS.
  
 Sony's VSS is very akin to that Dolby's PLIIx. Take a stereo source and upmix it to 7.1, you get soundstage but you get no imaging which means it's almost completely useless.
 So unless you are really, really, bothered by cables, I'd say just stick with your AD700 and get a Mixamp.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Alright guys. I have a favor to ask...
> 
> Try to find as many headphones with detachable 3.5mm or even 2.5mm cables. Stuff like the Sennheiser Momentum on ear, which has a 2.5mm input (a cheap 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter will ensure the Vmoda BoomPro will work on it).
> 
> ...


 
  
 They do, but there's one issue: the HD558 and 598 has a locking mechanism inside their 2.5mm jacks.
  
 Which means, you need to get someone who does the same exact grooves as Sennheiser has done on their stock cable right up at the 2.5mm connector. It's almost proprietary, no idea why Sennheiser thought it was a good idea.
  
 Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Audio-upgrade-Sennheiser-Headphone/dp/B00FYQ1JRI


----------



## TMRaven

mad lust envy said:


> I like what I see of these at Innerfidelity.


 
  
 I tried the professional, and it doesn't really sound like a closed headphone.  It isn't plagued by coloration in the lower midrange like most other closed-backs, and it's well articulated and has extended bass without being emphasized.  I'd think they score quite highly for you on competitive, decently highly on fun, but not too high on comfort.  The biggest problem is their earpads are too small to be considered truly circumaural.  Reminds me of a beats studio in the way their earpads fit-- only deeper earpads.
  
 I think NAD Viso HP50 has a detachable 3.5 cable as well.


----------



## Stillhart

Speaking of proprietary connectors, I read this on Amazon when looking up the M50x:  "The direct answer from Audio Technica when I asked about using a V-Moda Boom Mic Pro with the headset. "The detachable cable for the new ATH-M50xBL headphones (and all of the new M-Series) are a proprietary locking 2.5mm cable. This means that the V-Mode BoomPro will not work with the new headphones." Hope this helps. "


----------



## mindbomb

One thing I was wondering about is how a cheap planar magnetic like the fostex t50rp would hold up against some of the tried and true dynamic models. I think it would work with the mic as well.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, the SRH1540 has a graph that really does mimic the X1 in closed form. Looks appealing for mild bassheads.


 
  
 Yea, but much more technically refined (especially with the Alpha pads). It has slowly become my favorite headphone....
  
 ... ever...


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Yea, but much more technically refined (especially with the Alpha pads). It has slowly become my favorite headphone....
> 
> ... ever...


 
 Did you ever try the Sony MDR-7520? A lot of people say it sounds better than the 1540's


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> Did you ever try the Sony MDR-7520? A lot of people say it sounds better than the 1540's




Nope

Have you tried either?


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Have you tried either?


 
 No, I didn't. But all people in that 7520's topic that compared those 2 headphones, said that the 7520's are technically superior than the 1540's. I don't know if that's true though...


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> No, I didn't. But all people in that 7520's topic that compared those 2 headphones, said that the 7520's are technically superior than the 1540's. I don't know if that's true though...




Not interested... they can make that claim all they want


----------



## rudyae86

Hey guys,
  
 I need a suggestion for open closed headphones. I have the X1s and MA900s and they are great headphones for FPS, but I need a pair of closed headphones because when I play Gran Turismo 6, I dont get enought bass and the sound from cars sound a bit trebble-ish.
  
 When I play with my physical surround sound (of course it has a subwoofer), SQ with bass, sounds better. Now withe the 2 headphones that I currently own, They were meant to be used more for FPS with better imaging and positial audio. But with racing games, I dont think i need positional audio or a wider soundstage, i guess i need a heaphone with a smaller sounstage but just as good sound quality from the likes of x1s and ma900 but more bass.
  
 What do you guys think?
 Im currently using a Recon3D and I dont mind leaving it at 5.1 Virtual surround sound setting.
  
 I was looking at the CALs which are like 70 bucks right now, or maybe some Audio Technica M50x or A700X?
 I dont have an amp right now and dont think ill be buying one anytime soon (Blk Friday maybe which is a long way to go)
  
 So let me know guys
  
 Thanks


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: rudyae86






rudyae86 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I need a suggestion for open closed headphones. I have the X1s and MA900s and they are great headphones for FPS, but I need a pair of closed headphones because when I play Gran Turismo 6, I dont get enought bass and the sound from cars sound a bit trebble-ish.
> 
> ...


 
  


 
  
 Use your subwoofer with your headphones. Even headphones with sub-bass aren't going to give the chest compression you want with cars.


----------



## NamelessPFG

To those of you asking if virtual surround is possible on the new consoles? It's BEEN possible for over a decade; the game developers just don't feel like implementing it! DICE is the only one who even tried with BF3, and that was after the audio travesty that was BF:BC2.

I suspect the same trend will continue on the current generation with console manufacturers only providing stereo mixes for the headphone outputs on the gamepads, maybe offering virtual 7.1 at best like Sony does on their wireless USB headsets.

Why else would they require PS3/PS4 firmware updates to work, going by the listed requirements? I bet it's mixed right on the console CPU, in which case they could do so much better than virtual 7.1 if they'd just set the groundwork for native 3D audio! They probably don't enable it on other USB audio devices to make it a headset selling point, too.

I believe the new consoles have the audio processors only to take the DSP calculation load off of the CPU. The final mix for headphones will likely be subpar at best without the game developer going the extra mile to code a native headphone binaural mixing option.


----------



## damstr

damstr said:


> Alright so I just got my Antlion 2.3 Modmic the other day and I really really like it but I'm having some problems and I'm not sure where its stemming from. The problem is I can barely hear other people talking. Only when the game is quite can I hear what people are saying. Turning my Mixamp all the way to voice just turns the game volume down but doesn't actually make the voices louder like it should. Yes I have the volume all the way up on chat adapter before anyone asks.
> 
> First of all here is my setup.
> 
> ...


 
 To quote this so people know where I'm coming from. If I have NO chat adapter plugged into the controller voices in the game coming through my headset are very loud and clear.
  
 Does this mean the low chat volume is directly attributed to the chat adapter?


----------



## benbenkr

namelesspfg said:


> To those of you asking if virtual surround is possible on the new consoles? It's BEEN possible for over a decade; the game developers just don't feel like implementing it! DICE is the only one who even tried with BF3, and that was after the audio travesty that was BF:BC2.
> 
> I suspect the same trend will continue on the current generation with console manufacturers only providing stereo mixes for the headphone outputs on the gamepads, maybe offering virtual 7.1 at best like Sony does on their wireless USB headsets.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The other issue; there aren't enough pure headphone gamers in the console market. Over 70% of console gamers (this is a rough statistic, but it could certainly be less) still play with audio from their TV, so go figure why devs would bother with the time, effort and money to hire proper audio engineers to add a feature where only a minority uses. And also, many gamers don't care or know what HRTF is.
  
 Of course, the slightly good news is that headsets and headphones has been gaining sales and is on the rise over the last few years. Everyday, there are more gamers starting to switch to headsets/headphones instead of sticking with the TV only.
  
 It'll take a big push from someone like Sony, to tout that binaural is for real (ooh pun!) and market it to the masses who don't know what it is. Then and only then I would see devs start to take the innitiative to implement native HRTF like you said, right out from a game. Otherwise, it's only going to happen to a few niche games here and there over the next generation.


----------



## rudyae86

ausername501 said:


> Use your subwoofer with your headphones. Even headphones with sub-bass aren't going to give the chest compression you want with cars.


 
 How would I go about using the subwoofer and headphones at the same time?
  
 And even if I could, that kills the purpose of using headphones in the first place doesnt it  lol?
  
 I mean, I dont want to make noise in the house, that is why I use headphones and need a headphone specifically for Racing games with lots of bass but that are cheap and dont require amping.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Why else would they require PS3/PS4 firmware updates to work, going by the listed requirements? *I bet it's mixed right on the console CPU, in which case they could do so much better than virtual 7.1 if they'd just set the groundwork for native 3D audio!* They probably don't enable it on other USB audio devices to make it a headset selling point, too.
> 
> I believe the new consoles have the audio processors only to take the DSP calculation load off of the CPU. The final mix for headphones will likely be subpar at best without the game developer going the extra mile to code a native headphone binaural mixing option.




Who are you, and where has our computer-audio-master gone?

Jk, but seriously... To the part that is bolded, both the new consoles have dedicated audio processing hardware, and what has "us" excited is that several sites have stated that AMD's Trueaudio, which uses positional data from before the 7.1 channel mixing stage, has been incorporated into the PS4. The proof is in the pudding, and of course we're awaiting pudding, but AMD pushed TressFX into the PS4 version of Tomb Raider: Def Ed, and Thief for PC has already been confirmed as the first TrueAudio 3D surround game... Hopefully that feature will also be on consoles to encourage developer adoption of something they've already invested resources into hiring sound engineers and entering in to a contract with GenAudio.

At this point, AstoundSurround has (IMO) a good chance of breaking onto the scene via TruAudio and Sony's choice to use AMD parts, but apart from the DAC and Amp built into their Dual-Shock controllers (which will probably be cheap to keep costs down), it's entirely likely that we will have at least a marginal improvement in audio quality, and unlikely to see audio any worse than the last generation.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Who are you, and where has our computer-audio-master gone?
> 
> Jk, but seriously... To the part that is bolded, both the new consoles have dedicated audio processing hardware, and what has "us" excited is that several sites have stated that AMD's Trueaudio, which uses positional data from before the 7.1 channel mixing stage, has been incorporated into the PS4. The proof is in the pudding, and of course we're awaiting pudding, but AMD pushed TressFX into the PS4 version of Tomb Raider: Def Ed, and Thief for PC has already been confirmed as the first TrueAudio 3D surround game... Hopefully that feature will also be on consoles to encourage developer adoption of something they've already invested resources into hiring sound engineers and entering in to a contract with GenAudio.
> 
> At this point, AstoundSurround has (IMO) a good chance of breaking onto the scene via TruAudio and Sony's choice to use AMD parts, but apart from the DAC and Amp built into their Dual-Shock controllers (which will probably be cheap to keep costs down), it's entirely likely that we will have at least a marginal improvement in audio quality, and unlikely to see audio any worse than the last generation.


 
  
 That bolded part was referring specifically to Sony's virtual surround implementation for their PlayStation headsets, which if you read the requirements carefully, actually denotes a minimum firmware version. Those same headsets also work on PCs, but present themselves as stereo USB audio devices with no surround options.
  
 The conclusion's pretty clear to me: the headset and USB transceiver don't do any of the surround processing whatsoever. It's all on the PS3/PS4, which detects that particular USB transceiver as being for one of Sony's wireless gaming headsets and then permits the virtual surround mix they've implemented to be output to that USB audio device, if enabled on the headset.
  
 I wasn't talking about next-gen hardware as a whole with that bolded statement. I know about the TrueAudio and Sphere DSPs; those can take the load off the CPU for processing reverb, chorus, occlusions, wavetracing, etc. But it's still up to the developers to provide good positional cues in the final audio mix; a hardware DSP won't magically solve that if the developers still code their games to only output one-dimensional stereo audio to headphones and not a proper binaural mix.
  
 GenAudio may just be the ticket we're looking for, but they've got to get established to the point where no major game developer even thinks about using FMOD or Wwise without the AstoundSound plugin. On top of that, they need to ensure that PC versions of AstoundSound-enabled games can reap the benefits WITHOUT an AMD TrueAudio DSP present, even if it means greater CPU usage, because they can't afford to alienate the majority of the market, especially the portion that's loyal to NVIDIA.


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: NamelessPFG






namelesspfg said:


> That bolded part was referring specifically to Sony's virtual surround implementation for their PlayStation headsets, which if you read the requirements carefully, actually denotes a minimum firmware version. Those same headsets also work on PCs, but present themselves as stereo USB audio devices with no surround options.
> 
> The conclusion's pretty clear to me: the headset and USB transceiver don't do any of the surround processing whatsoever. It's all on the PS3/PS4, which detects that particular USB transceiver as being for one of Sony's wireless gaming headsets and then permits the virtual surround mix they've implemented to be output to that USB audio device, if enabled on the headset.
> 
> ...


 
  


 
  
 Do we know if a graphics card with AMD TrueAudio is required  or can the calculations be done on the CPU? I'm wondering whether it's another PhysX situation where you need to have Nvidia hardware for it to work.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The current information ist a bit confusing.
  
 AMD stated multiple times that rendering is done off the DSPs that come with selected AMD series and those DSPs are also on the PS4. Plus Middleware has to support it as well of course. What I am wondering though is if Genaudio on WWise can run on the CPU as well or will only work with Tensilica cores.
  
 I asked Nixxes about True Audio and binaural features on the PC, awaiting response. I suggest you guys ask as well, maybe a dev from AMD and WWISE. Better than speculating.


----------



## Adynos

So, I wasn't too cared about my audio quality before because from what I had known, onboard sound with a "surround sound" "gaming headset" was perfectly fine! When I got my headset one of my friends who knows much more than I do told me I should have just gotten some headphones instead with a separate mic and would have far superior quality. So, now that my headset is falling apart (cracked in several places and sound failing unless the cord is held in a certain position) I have decided to take him up on his advice. The headset I was using had a closed back and I found it great. But, I am living alone in a quiet neighborhood with the only ambient noise being the gentle purring of my desktop PC. I have read that open backed headphones have a more accurate sound to them and generally a better quality so I figured I would be adventurous and give them a shot!

I studied long and hard over many different options but narrowed it down to two. It was going to be either the Beyerdynamic 990s, or the Sennheiser 598s. Finally though I made my decision because I figured I would appreciate having a little more bass in the long run...

So, with that said, I ordered the Beyerdynamic 990 pro 250 ohms headphones along with the Fiio E09k amp and E17 DAC!

I am by no means an audiophile (obviously) but I am really excited about this purchase. How much of a difference do I have to look forward to Wednesday when it all arrives!?


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: Adynos



Quote: 





adynos said:


> So, I wasn't too cared about my audio quality before because from what I had known, onboard sound with a "surround sound" "gaming headset" was perfectly fine! When I got my headset one of my friends who knows much more than I do told me I should have just gotten some headphones instead with a separate mic and would have far superior quality. So, now that my headset is falling apart (cracked in several places and sound failing unless the cord is held in a certain position) I have decided to take him up on his advice. The headset I was using had a closed back and I found it great. But, I am living alone in a quiet neighborhood with the only ambient noise being the gentle purring of my desktop PC. I have read that open backed headphones have a more accurate sound to them and generally a better quality so I figured I would be adventurous and give them a shot!
> 
> I studied long and hard over many different options but narrowed it down to two. It was going to be either the Beyerdynamic 990s, or the Sennheiser 598s. Finally though I made my decision because I figured I would appreciate having a little more bass in the long run...
> 
> ...





 
 The E17 supports optical input so what many people do here is buy a sound card for the virtual surround sound software and then use optical out on the sound card to the E17 which does the digital to analogue conversion. Personally, I'm not a fan of the E09k if you can get the Objective2 or Schiit Magni at a similar price. Not that it is a bad amplifier but that the 10ohm output impedance is 10x higher than the Objective2 or Magni.
  
 I would suggest listening to my VSS audio tracks and then buy a cheap sound card that has whatever VSS you prefer. In the meantime you can use Razer Virtual Surround Sound which is free and doesn't require a sound card.


----------



## rc10mike

Does anyone what the PS4 USB audio output format is?
  
 Like when you select "All Audio" so game sounds go through USB instead of HDMI?


----------



## prankies

I originally posted this in its own thread, but decided it might just fit better in here.
  
 Since your original reviews, some prices have shifted around a lot.  I know you get these kinds of questions a lot, but here's the question from my original post:
  
 I'm a long time lurker with an incredibly generic first post.  I have thoroughly gone through MLE's gaming headphone thread, and I have a decent idea of what I'm interested in, but all the headphones I want are suddenly very hard to find, and not a god damn place in town has a station where I can listen to any of them.
  
 I am a 100% PC gamer who focuses primarily on the FPS genre.  I am "competitive", but now feel like I'm moving out of my detail whoring stage and would like something with more bass and "fun" than my AD700s (I realize I might have to give up a little bit of directional accuracy to do so).  From what I've read here, it sounds like this is a very common stage in most headphone enthusiast's evolution =p
  
 I guess to make this post slightly more specific than similar ones in the past, I will ask this: at current listed prices, which of these can be made into the best $300ish value?
  
 It looks like I've narrowed it down to:
  
*MA900s (approx. $240)*: I would have already picked these up if I could have found them from a reputable vendor at anywhere near retail price.  The comfort, sound stage, and minimal amping requirements sound perfect for my price range and they could likely be driven on my Xonar DG.  I just feel dirty paying $60+ above retail for them now that they are discontinued.  If I have to pay $240 for them, I worry I might get more value out of the X1's at the same price.
  
*Fidelio X1 (approx $240, amp questionable):* I also may have already bought these if it weren't for the fact that Amazon had them as a "Deal of the Day" for $150 a few weeks back.  Now I feel like a schmuck for buying them at $240.  They are still a great value from what I understand, and sound like the exact kind of sound signature I'm looking for.  I know they don't take much to drive, but with these I wonder how much I would benefit from upgrading to a soundcard in the $100 range to get more out of them.  At that point, I'd be inching beyond my goal of a $300 budget, but would I see significant gains?
  
*Q701 ($200 headphone, likely $100 minimum amp/soundcard): *The soundstage on these while amped is very enticing, though these are another set that would force me to spend $100+ on a soundcard or an amp.  Still, if there is a really solid $300 "total package" (headphone plus amp or soundcard) that can drive these to meet their potential for PC gaming, then I would probably just pull the trigger on that.  They probably don't quite have that super fun/bassy punch "wow" factor that I'm looking for, but I'm hoping I would still notice a big difference coming from the AD700s.
  
*AD900X (approx. $220): *I just wonder if these would be enough of a departure from my AD700s.  I like that they don't require amping, and I love the comfort/airiness of the AD700s, but I don't want to drop $200 for them to just end up sounding like my EQed AD700s.
  
  
 I am open to ANY advice/suggestions that deviate from this list.  Soundstage is probably still my most important feature, as I primarily play shooters like CS:GO and Planetside 2 where pinpointing direction is essential.  I know I can't get much more accurate positioning than my AD700s, but I am willing to give some of that up for something more immersive, dramatic, and universal for music genres outside of female vocals (though female vocals are also high on my list of priorities).
  
  
 It is possible for me to spend up to $400, but I would really prefer to stay around $300.
  
 I realize that this is a painfully generic first post and the same question has been asked several times, but really I'm just looking for an ideal pairing for my specific needs as well as any recommendations for vendors to buy the items from (also interested in used pairs for sale).
  
 Thank you for reading my noob wall of text, I look forward to any advice you might have.


----------



## Change is Good

You've pretty much done your own research, my friend. There's nothing else we can say that you have not covered already. 

We can't make the choice for you... you must do so, yourself. Each headphone you inquire of has been mentioned and compared enough throughout the thread... for the choice to be simpler than many people make it out to be.


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## Stillhart

Quick question:  The DT990 Premium 32 and 250 are on sale for $249 right now (http://slickdeals.net/f/6724080-beyerdynamic-dt-880-premium-headphones-32-ohm-or-250-ohm-219-beyerdynamic-dt-990-premium-headphones-32-ohm-or-250-ohm-249-fs-ac), which is way under their normal price.  At that price, is it a no-brainer to get them over the Fidelio X1 for the same price? 
  
 The X1, of course, has the advantage of a removable cable for the Vmoda Boommic and I don't believe it needs to be amped.  If I'm reading things correctly, the DT990 should have better sound but only with the extra cost of an amp.
  
 To be clear, I'm still not sure if I'm even going to bump my budget enough to get them, but saving $100-150 is pretty tempting.
  
 EDIT - /facepalm.  I just reread the X1 review and MLE says it obsoletes the DT990.  Guess that answers that question!


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> You've pretty much done your own research, my friend. There's nothing else we can say that you have not covered already.
> 
> We can't make the choice for you... you must do so, yourself. Each headphone you inquire of has been mentioned and compared enough throughout the thread... for the choice to be simpler than many people make it out to be.




Maybe the K612 is a great contender too?


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Maybe the K612 is a great contender too?


 
  
 Yes it would, but the fact that it's quite picky with the amount of juice/synergy required, it may not be the ideal choice for around $300. He can, however, pick up a K612 and FiiO E12 at that range. It scales better with my desktop amps, but the E12 is no slouch in driving these babies.


----------



## prankies

Thanks for the reply.  I guess I'm just curious if any of the value discussions have been updated now that prices have shifted.  The MA900s have risen in price, while the X1s have dropped.  The Q701s have had their retail price drop as well.  Now that all three of them are more or less the exact same price, I was wondering if they have moved up or down the price/performance list.  
  
 When reviewed, for example, the X1s were about $300 and the MA900 $180.  At that time the MA900 was a slightly better value in a close contest for overall performance.  Now that they are both essentially the same price, does that shift the value scale in favor of the X1?
  
 I know sooner or later I'm just going to have to pull the trigger on something, but I'm as obsessed with deals as I am with headphones and don't want to overlook anything now that the prices have shifted.


----------



## DADDYDC650

prankies said:


> Thanks for the reply.  I guess I'm just curious if any of the value discussions have been updated now that prices have shifted.  The MA900s have risen in price, while the X1s have dropped.  The Q701s have had their retail price drop as well.  Now that all three of them are more or less the exact same price, I was wondering if they have moved up or down the price/performance list.
> 
> When reviewed, for example, the X1s were about $300 and the MA900 $180.  At that time the MA900 was a slightly better value in a close contest for overall performance.  Now that they are both essentially the same price, does that shift the value scale in favor of the X1?
> 
> I know sooner or later I'm just going to have to pull the trigger on something, but I'm as obsessed with deals as I am with headphones and don't want to overlook anything now that the prices have shifted.


 
 For the price, the X1 is a no brainer over your the MA900. The Q701's are great for positional sound but aren't nearly as fun as the X1. I'd rather spend the extra $30 on the X1's any day of the week over the Q701.


----------



## prankies

daddydc650 said:


> For the price, the X1 is a no brainer over your the MA900. The Q701's are great for positional sound but aren't nearly as fun as the X1. I'd rather spend the extra $30 on the X1's any day of the week over the Q701.


 
 That is really what I have been leaning toward, but I wasn't sure if the Xonar DG would really be enough for them.  I've been looking at the Sound Blaster Z as an alternative ($85) which would still keep me in my $300ish range.  But then we're back at the point where I could afford a Q701 and nicer amplifier for the same price.  
  
 I will probably see how the X1s do with my DG and then upgrade from there.  Just gonna be bummed about missing them for so cheap in the Amazon sale.  Makes me wonder if a new model is around the corner.


----------



## prankies

I ended up ordering the Fidelio X1s for around $230 and an OEM Sound Blaster Z for $59.  I was able to find sellers without tax and that included free shipping, so that takes away some of the sting of missing the $150 sale.
  
 Hoping this will be a nice step up in immersion and bass from my Xonar DG/AD700s.  Need some oomph back in my ears after a year with the AD700s.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> The current information ist a bit confusing.
> 
> I asked Nixxes about True Audio and binaural features on the PC, awaiting response. I suggest you guys ask as well, maybe a dev from AMD and WWISE. Better than speculating.



Who is Nixxes? I would certainly love 1st-party official information.



prankies said:


> I could afford a Q701 and nicer amplifier for the same price.
> 
> I will probably see how the X1s do with my DG and then upgrade from there.  Just gonna be bummed about missing them for so cheap in the Amazon sale.  Makes me wonder if a new model is around the corner.



IMO, my Q701 sounds great even unamped. With good amping, you get refinement to reveal that soundstage which makes them special, and a little more controlled treble and bass.

And the X1 sale was I think a kind of holiday thing (near Xmas, "get what you really wanted" kind of thing that probably won't happen again for a long time), OR it could be signifying the end of production. I heard The headphone division of Phillips was in trouble or something.


----------



## rc10mike

If anyone is interested, Im selling my DT990 Permium 250ohm. They have been re-cabled with silver cable and ALSO have a removable cable mod. So you can easily attach the V-Moda mic if you want. Only trade I would consider is the X1. PM me if interested.


----------



## Stillhart

prankies said:


> I ended up ordering the Fidelio X1s for around $230 and an OEM Sound Blaster Z for $59.  I was able to find sellers without tax and that included free shipping, so that takes away some of the sting of missing the $150 sale.
> 
> Hoping this will be a nice step up in immersion and bass from my Xonar DG/AD700s.  Need some oomph back in my ears after a year with the AD700s.


 

 Let us know what you think.  I'm still tossing around the same questions.  Adorama has the MA900's for $199 (no tax, free shipping, reputable vendor) and the X1 is $30 more but supports the boom mic for later if I want.  The Q701 seems like a great option in the price range but the need to amp (questionable) kinda means it's more expensive than it looks.
  
 I know at the end of the day, I probably can't go wrong with any of those choices.  Hell, I'm sure even the PLYR 1 will be perfectly fine at the end of the day.  But I obsess over things like this and it's really hard to find trustworthy data.


----------



## prankies

stillhart said:


> Let us know what you think.  I'm still tossing around the same questions.  Adorama has the MA900's for $199 (no tax, free shipping, reputable vendor) and the X1 is $30 more but supports the boom mic for later if I want.  The Q701 seems like a great option in the price range but the need to amp (questionable) kinda means it's more expensive than it looks.
> 
> I know at the end of the day, I probably can't go wrong with any of those choices.  Hell, I'm sure even the PLYR 1 will be perfectly fine at the end of the day.  But I obsess over things like this and it's really hard to find trustworthy data.


 
 It's awesome that there are so many great gaming options right now, but once you realize you're practically spending as much money on a headphone setup as people spend on entire computers/consoles, you start to get paranoid about what you choose.  I probably would have pulled the trigger on that Adorama deal on the MA900s if they had them in stock.  They list the item as backordered by the manufacturer, and since the MA900s are now discontinued, I wasn't holding out hope that they would get more.  The comfort and sound stage of the MA900 sounded perfect for me, but now that I can't find them anywhere for cheaper than the X1s, I decided I might as well go for the slightly higher end headphone with a higher fun factor.
  
 Everything is arriving in stages, so I can give detailed info on each piece as it arrives.  X1s should arrive tomorrow, replacement cable the day after that, and the SBZ hopefully by the end of the week.  I've got my own cheap 3.5mm M to M to replace the X1's stock cable until the nice one arrives.  I'll start with a direct comparison of the X1 (before burn in) and AD700s on the Xonar DG tomorrow evening.  By early next week, I should be able to compare them on the SBZ, as well as compare the SBZ to the Xonar DG for gaming and music.
  
 In a related note, had a really strange experience with static electricity and my AD700s a while back and wonder if anyone has had something similar happen to them before.  I took off a down coat while wearing my AD700s, and MASSIVE amounts of static went through my ears and into the ear cups (through the drivers and to the metal grates on the other side), and then went down my headphone wire to the front panel on my tower.  No joke, it completely fried my front audio ports and I had to start plugging into the back of my PC.  I'm still paranoid about the kind of damage it might have done to the headphones/sound card, and occasionally hear popping or screeching in my VOIP programs (but not anywhere else, so that could just be something that was always there and I never paid attention).  This will finally let me eliminate that nagging suspicion once and for all, as well.


----------



## prankies

If I get the X1s and miss my sound stage too much, then I plan on taking advantage of Amazon's 30-day return policy (confirmed with a CS rep that it would be okay to do a "try before I buy" type of return on the headphones, they said it was no problem as long as order was fulfilled by Amazon) and I will switch over to the Q701s or MA900s.  A well-functioning sound stage is still my #1 priority as a gamer, I just want something a little more versatile than the AD700s.  I don't find myself enjoying music as much across genres (female vocals are still great), and "cranking it up!" in games just leads to fatiguing highs instead of the exciting massive battles and explosions I'm hoping for.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: prankies






prankies said:


> If I get the X1s and miss my sound stage too much, then I plan on taking advantage of Amazon's 30-day return policy (confirmed with a CS rep that it would be okay to do a "try before I buy" type of return on the headphones, they said it was no problem as long as order was fulfilled by Amazon) and I will switch over to the Q701s or MA900s.  A well-functioning sound stage is still my #1 priority as a gamer, I just want something a little more versatile than the AD700s.  I don't find myself enjoying music as much across genres (female vocals are still great), and "cranking it up!" in games just leads to fatiguing highs instead of the exciting massive battles and explosions I'm hoping for.  Fingers crossed.


 
  


 
 The AD700s are certainly geared towards competitive gaming but most people really don't want that because it's not fun to have no bass. Personally, I would use an equalizer like EqualizerAPO and massively reduce the bass through EQ rather than buy headphones without bass.


----------



## Evshrug

Dreyka,
The AD700 isn't about "no bass," it is very "cold" and has very little weight behind midbass and rolls off the sub bass, but what is HAS is a godlike sense of air and soundstage. I haven't heard the HD800 and would hope that would be better, but I would love to hear the MA900 and AD700 side-by-side. I have heard both, owned the AD700 for three years, but haven't compared them side-by-side... I think you would have to go summit-Fi to find better imaging and soundstage than these two.

For me, the Q701 was the natural upgrade on the AD700... With a well-implemented tube amp, the Q701 had basically as good soundstage, while also adding warmth, extension, and energy. I liked the MA900, but coming from the AD700 I feel like the Q701 was a bigger upgrade overall, the MA900 just had something special about the mids while gaming.


----------



## aBc.CaN

How do the Yamaha HPH-200 rank here?


----------



## Evshrug

^umm, I don't know anybody who has heard them


----------



## Stillhart

prankies said:


> ...  I probably would have pulled the trigger on that Adorama deal on the MA900s if they had them in stock.  They list the item as backordered by the manufacturer, and since the MA900s are now discontinued, I wasn't holding out hope that they would get more.  The comfort and sound stage of the MA900 sounded perfect for me, but now that I can't find them anywhere for cheaper than the X1s, I decided I might as well go for the slightly higher end headphone with a higher fun factor....


 
 Aw man, it doesn't actually show it as backordered unless you try to buy it.  Lame.  
  
 Oh well, guess there's another choice made easier.  I feel like the world is pushing me towards an X1 with a VModa Boom mic.  So expensive... but probably leaps and bounds better than the A50.
  
 The only real question left (for me) is whether Xbone is going to support virtual surround at some point or if I'll have to get a Mixamp 5.8.  Maybe I'll wait for the March patch (the one that will fix Dolby through optical) to see if they push Dolby Headphone through the controller.  If they don't, I'll have to decide on a non-upgradeable PLYR 1 or the X1, etc for like twice as much.  I'm sure reading baout how psyched you are for yours will make my decision that much harder/easier.  :-D


----------



## Mad Max

mad lust envy said:


> Well here guys. My secret review. I need to re-tweak the layout just a smidge, but it's pretty much complete.
> 
> The review has been sitting in my laptop for a few months it seems, but I finally got the okay to post it by Jude. All in all, thoroughly impressed by the sound quality.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No other DNA Pro impressions?  I heard it briefly at a Best Buy and was impressed.  No congestion like the smaller regular DNA, more refinement, and vocals so clean, quite possibly as clean as K70x or the pimped out T50RP that I used to have.  I was actually enjoying the overall sound.  Now on Amazon as well, by the way, not just Best Buy.


----------



## Evshrug

I heard the vanilla DNA at my Office Depot, where they rarely have customers and you can plug the headphones into your own gear. No broken headband, but when fully extended I could see how it would put leverage against a 1/3 centimeter plastic piece and break.

And I can see why you said congested, almost a flat soundstage, but the frequency curve and detail were pretty fun, and I could see someone buying them for their audio (as compared to the original beats, some of the Bose, and the Sony XB500 which perplexingly I have only seen in the wild, with a kid DJ).


----------



## Mad Max

The soundstage depth has nothing to do with it sounding congested.  If too many sounds played at once within the midrange, the headphone became congested.  My SR225 and SR325 both have a literally flat soundstage (absolute zero depth), yet they never become congested even with very complex passages.  I heard the on-ear DNA at Office Depot before as well, same result.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Figures that other things I want are popping up for sale...something's gotta give if I'm going to have a chance at buying them before anyone else. Damn my general interest in exotic, expensive hardware...
  
 I guess that means I'll have to part with the MA900, if anyone's still interested in it with everyone hyping the Fidelio X1 instead and all. They're a good set, but they honestly haven't seen much use ever since I got the MMX 300.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Max,
Oh I meant it had some congestion AND the soundstage seemed flat AND it had a fun freq response... So I back you up 

NamelessPFG,
What did you find? Another flight sim thingie, like a switch panel/dashboard to pair up with your joystick? Or... something STAXy? Probably not headphones tho... And I bet you feel authentic because weren't the MMX300 designed for aviation (control towers and pilots) anyway?



*Mad* and others with mixamps...
How do I hook up my own headphones and mic!?

I felt like trying the Mixamp's marquee distinguishing feature, but I realized it was designed for headsets featuring a mic channel integrated into the plug. Mine didn't come with a splitter... well it did, but in the other direction with male plugs for connecting to a PC. I thought "well OK, I can use the mobile cable that came with the A30s" (btw the A30s were mailed away for service), BUT the mic jack is 2.5 and I can't fit anything inside anyway with my fat AKG plug right next to it!

Do I really have to buy a TRRS smartphone splitter with female mic and audio jacks?


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> NamelessPFG,
> What did you find? Another flight sim thingie, like a switch panel/dashboard to pair up with your joystick? Or... something STAXy? Probably not headphones tho... And I bet you feel authentic because weren't the MMX300 designed for aviation (control towers and pilots) anyway?


 
  
 Beyerdynamic claims the MMX 300 is based on one of their aviation headsets, but authenticity isn't the reason I keep it.
  
 The reason is, of all things, the microphone. It's much, much better than my desk mic, and I doubt that many have the ability to effectively filter out the noise of my Model M. Meanwhile, the headphone section is good enough for positional audio that I don't feel like I have to reach for the MA900 every time I want to start gaming, and the comfort's good enough for long gaming sessions. It's not perfect, but it's good enough.
  
 The thing in question is a TM HOTAS Cougar...with a ton of mods included, most specifically the sought-after U2-NXT gimbal mod with a reputation for perfect smoothness. You could say it's like the STAX of the flight stick world.
  
 It's been one of my goals to evaluate it, but the U2-NXT itself is naturally quite expensive (moreso than the HOTAS Cougar itself is) and has limited production runs (made by one man in Australia as a hobby, CNC-milled out of solid aluminum), plus it's made for a now-discontinued HOTAS setup which has only gone up in price by several hundred dollars since discontinuation. If I miss this opportunity now, who knows when I'll get another chance?


----------



## miceblue

It's off-topic from the current conversation, but is anyone here planning to get Metal Gear Solid V? I find it a bit of an annoyance that you need to get Ground Zeroes to know the backstory for The Phantom Pain...

I ask because this was announced today:
http://kotaku.com/metal-gear-solid-v-ground-zeroes-is-getting-its-own-ps-1524247799


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought I was pretty thorough with the DNA Pro impressions.

I LOVE their sound (seriously, if they fit right and are more comfy, I could live with them as my only headphones).

As for the DNA On Ear, I'm using them as my gaming headset. Yes, it's not as detailed as the Pro, and yes it's tilting in bass, but because the mids and treble are generally even with one another, you only have to contend with the bloom in bass, which doesn't really swallow up the other frequencies when I'm playing games. I have been doing quite well with it, actually. The soundstage is small, but locating sounds isn't hard to do, and I like the small footprint.



evshrug said:


> *Mad* and others with mixamps...
> How do I hook up my own headphones and mic!?
> 
> I felt like trying the Mixamp's marquee distinguishing feature, but I realized it was designed for headsets featuring a mic channel integrated into the plug. Mine didn't come with a splitter... well it did, but in the other direction with male plugs for connecting to a PC. I thought "well OK, I can use the mobile cable that came with the A30s" (btw the A30s were mailed away for service), BUT the mic jack is 2.5 and I can't fit anything inside anyway with my fat AKG plug right next to it!
> ...




Yep, gotta buy the female splitter that converts to one output. Dunno why your Mixaamp doesn't come with one.


----------



## Evshrug

Saaaaad face... It came with the A30 mobile cable instead. And a splitter in reverse, to hook up a smartphone headset to a computer with separate mic and stereo jacks. At least I have a PSN chat cable.


----------



## Stillhart

Just saw that DNA on-ear is on sale for $99 at Office Depot (of all places) right now.  Seems like a pretty good price for those. 
  
 You say you're using them for your main gaming set right now, but you only rated them a 7.  Is it just because you wanted a change of pace?


----------



## Jason Bourne

EDIT : Answered my own question!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> Just saw that DNA on-ear is on sale for $99 at Office Depot (of all places) right now.  Seems like a pretty good price for those.
> 
> You say you're using them for your main gaming set right now, but you only rated them a 7.  Is it just because you wanted a change of pace?




How did I give the DNA On Ear a 7, when I haven't even reviewed it yet? I reviewed the DNA Pro. Two completely different headphones.

I'm using the DNA because I don't have a headset on hand, and the DNA works with the Vmoda BoomPro. My A30s are currently at Astro for fixing or replacing. Again, this is only when I voice chat on CoD with my buddies. I use my MA900 every other time.

And this is why I wish I never went with a scoring system. ONLY a 7? A 7 is GOOD. Good =/= bad. Anything I rate good is good enough to use. If not, I wouldn't have said they're good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's the same with game reviews. People are often even dissapointed with an 8. A 7 is downright bad even. Ridiculous.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like IGN. In big bold letters a 7 is GOOD.

People bitch and moan that a game got a GOOD score, by ONE person's opinion. It baffles me.

Nowadays, it's like most people only see 9-10 as good, and the rest is crap. I don't want to live on this planet anymore. 

I will tell you guys, my reviews are obviously my opinion. You may agree nor disagree, and you can use it as a starting point, but I'm not a professional, and what I like may not be what you like. That's how all reviews should be viewed.


One thing we can almost all agree on is that Lghtning Returns is pretty mediocre. What a waste of $60. Square-Enix, I have no faith in you anymore.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, metacritic focus of publishers and idiot gamers wanting/expecting a "9/10 or will buy for 5$" (I understand if money's a concern or plenty of games that want to be played before) often leads to undeserved bad sales. 
  
 I think you should get rid of scores and just do comparisons after the main review (like Project86 does in his amp reviews), based on the price range, like Q701 vs. X1, HE-500 vs. TH-600 etc.and even with headphones above so people might even go higher.
  
 Will also make people actually read your review and not stare on scores which is a bummer since your reviews are well written.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> How did I give the DNA On Ear a 7, when I haven't even reviewed it yet? I reviewed the DNA Pro. Two completely different headphones.
> 
> I'm using the DNA because I don't have a headset on hand, and the DNA works with the Vmoda BoomPro. My A30s are currently at Astro for fixing or replacing. Again, this is only when I voice chat on CoD with my buddies. I use my MA900 every other time.
> 
> And this is why I wish I never went with a scoring system. ONLY a 7? A 7 is GOOD. Good =/= bad. Anything I rate good is good enough to use. If not, I wouldn't have said they're good.


 

 Okay dude, please don't overreact.  I apologize for antagonizing you with my poorly-worded question; it was late when I posted it and I can see how you'd misinterpret it.
  
 What I meant to ask is why you'd use a headphone that, while good, isn't as good as many others you've reviewed.  I meant "only" only in comparison to your other cans.  You answered my question though.  It didn't occur to me that you don't actually have all of them sitting around on a shelf somewhere.  I was just confused as to why you'd be using them over something like the X1 which you seemed to think was better in pretty much every respect.
  
 And yeah, obviously writing "a 7" was stupid as well.  I meant with respect to competitive gaming and I was sort of taking your score from the DNA Pro and then reading your impressions of the DNA and guessing.  Obviously, not a smart thing to do in retrospect.  My apologies.
  
 With regard to your ranking system, I'm a practical guy.  This isn't like video games where I can get them all and I'm only limited by my time to play them.  There's really no reason to buy more than maybe 2 sets of cans, one each for music and gaming (maybe 3 if you split gaming into multiple groups).  I plan on getting one and I just want to make sure I'm getting the best bang for my buck.  While a 7 is good on an absolute scale, how good is it for the price?  A $100 headset that gets a 7 may be a smoking deal.  $200?  Maybe not so much.
  
 Anyways, sorry for upsetting you.  I do appreciate all the work you've put into these reviews and all the help you continue to provide.


----------



## TMRaven

I think somewhere as disclaimer in his first post he writes that his ratings aren't on a relative scale, and are on an absolute scale. He insists to specifically 'not compare one headphone's scores to another.'  In other words a 10 in competitive for the AD700 might be worse than a 10 or 9 in competitive for an AKG-K701.  I'm not a big fan of that type of system, but it is what it is.


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, metacritic focus of publishers and idiot gamers wanting/expecting a "9/10 or will buy for 5$" (I understand if money's a concern or plenty of games that want to be played before) often leads to undeserved bad sales.
> 
> I think you should get rid of scores and just do comparisons after the main review (like Project86 does in his amp reviews), based on the price range, like Q701 vs. X1, HE-500 vs. TH-600 etc.and even with headphones above so people might even go higher.
> 
> Will also make people actually read your review and not stare on scores which is a bummer since your reviews are well written.


 

 FWIW, I read the reviews and use the numbers more to help me understand the reviews in summary form.  But I still think it would be a great idea to do some comparisons in the price ranges.
  
 I don't know if you guys realize how intimidating a 1400-page thread is.  I normally like to read everything on long informative threads, but it'd take all my free time for a month to get through everything.  I've scanned back a few tens of pages and I've done some searches, but man it seems like there's not much way to get relevant recent information other than asking things you may have answered before. 
  
 I hope you guys cut newbies like me some slack going forward.  Nobody likes feeling like a ******* tool for asking the same question again, but there isn't a ton of choice.  You're a victim of your own success.


----------



## Change is Good

This is really annoying. Shipment was delayed for my K545, so they did not arrive until today.
  
 And guess what,,, the left driver is defective... AGAIN! No driver crinkling issues, this time, however... just significantly uneven volume compared to the right driver.
  
 This is extremely odd because Brian said he tested these out before shipping. It seems that these headphones may not respond well to cold weather environments during shipment. This is the only theory I can think of....


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> FWIW, I read the reviews and use the numbers more to help me understand the reviews in summary form.  But I still think it would be a great idea to do some comparisons in the price ranges.
> 
> I don't know if you guys realize how intimidating a 1400-page thread is.  I normally like to read everything on long informative threads, but it'd take all my free time for a month to get through everything.  I've scanned back a few tens of pages and I've done some searches, but man it seems like there's not much way to get relevant recent information other than asking things you may have answered before.
> 
> I hope you guys cut newbies like me some slack going forward.  Nobody likes feeling like a ******* tool for asking the same question again, but there isn't a ton of choice.  You're a victim of your own success.


 
  
 I didn't address you in my posting, it was just a general thought about ratings and scores, not meant towards you personally.


----------



## roguegeek

I've watched this thread since Dec 2012. There are things that I agree with and there are things I have a different opinion on. No doubt, do I appreciate the content here as it has helped me down my path to a very large extent. It's obvious that this kind of comparison is very much needed since it is one of the most popular and active threads here on Head-fi. Please understand that I have nothing but respect and admiration for everyone who contributes here.
  
 That being said, I've seen more than a handful of people confused on the scoring system and I honestly don't blame them for that misinterpretation. The subjectiveness is fine, of course, but it makes sense people are going to be looking at this as less of a guide and more of a comparison simply because scores are provided over different factors. The confusion is emphasized when you discover the numbers are not relative. Beyond this, not having a comprehensive description of the methodology used when "scoring" doesn't help the situation. It is also my opinion that retorts such as, "why don't people read?" to their questions about the scoring system don't help matters. I write a fair amount of technical documentation in my role and if I have a lot of people asking the same question about something specific, I look at that as a failure on my part to properly communicate what I am trying to document.
  
 In contrast, you have something like Battle Of The Flagships where a scoring system is employed, it's comparative, and there is a decent amount of time spent on describing the methodology. My constructive feedback would possibly then be to work this guide towards something more extensive and complete like the flagship comparison or possibly keep it in the spirit of a guide where things don't have hard scores and impressions are emphasized instead.
  
 So, MLE, I hope you or anyone else who has contributed doesn't takes offense to this. That was not my intent. I, in fact, will always be thankful of what you've created. I just see a good piece of documentation that, in my opinion, has room to grow and can possibly become great. This is my way of communicating constructive feedback and, as always, I'm open to hearing thoughts and feedback.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, I've been reading this thread long enough that I know I can read Mad's in-thread posted reviews, and get a good sense of how excited he is for a particular product. And, I pretty much ignore the scores, mostly just descriptions of imaging, soundstage, and realism catch my interest — because I've figured out my main preferences. 

Not everybody else has had those preference discoveries though, and to them I would just say "look at your budget, and any of the headphones in this guide are some of the best headphones out there. Pick one that fits your budget and the review catches your interest."

I suppose I would also recommend removing the numbered scores, just letting the enthusiasm for the product (for it's price bracket) speak for itself of how good "good" is.

I can understand Mad's frustration... This isn't my thread, but still it bugs me when somebody asks "Does the X1 have good bass?" or "I found a good deal on a top-shelf AKG [_they're ALL great deals _], if I want one should I upgrade from my turtle beaches/TV speakers?" or "Can I hear footsteps and get good surround imaging with Koss clip-ons [_Yes!_]" or other things that were clearly answered on the first post, or are the kind of thing where the person has all the info but wants someone to choose for him. To an extent, new posters are what give this thread it's life, it's just that some people expect silver platter service from other people who are simply hobbyists just like them.


----------



## Stillhart

To be fair though, I think a lot of the vets in this thread don't seem to recognize the difference between what's on the front page and what's "common knowledge" but never explicitly stated.  This can cause frustration for everyone.
  
 Back on topic, I just went to Fry's to grab something and by complete chance stumbled across a SB Recon 3D on super clearance for $5!  I bought both of them so I can have one for the PC and one for the console if I decide to go that route.  I figure if I don't like it, it's only $5 down the drain. 
  
 But from the comparison video in the first post, I thought the THX sounded much better than the Dolby Headphones.  The Dolby had some weird reverb going on that was annoying me; the THX sounded much more natural while also giving the best imaging for me.  Seemed like a no-brainer to grab these.
  
 On a related note, I also just discovered that my old AVR (an HK AVR 340) does Dolby Headphone 5.1!  Question for you vets:  will this negate my need for an amp on something like the DT990 or the Q701?  I understand that the mixamp doesn't really amp those quite enough so an external amp is required.  I am wondering if my AVR counts as more amplification than the mixamp.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> To be fair though, I think a lot of the vets in this thread don't seem to recognize the difference between what's on the front page and what's "common knowledge" but never explicitly stated.  This can cause frustration for everyone.
> 
> Back on topic, I just went to Fry's to grab something and by complete chance stumbled across a SB Recon 3D on super clearance for $5!  I bought both of them so I can have one for the PC and one for the console if I decide to go that route.  I figure if I don't like it, it's only $5 down the drain.
> 
> ...


 
  
 MLE did explicitly state that the scores should not be compared to one another. It's the third sentence on his initial post. "*I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.​*" Common knowledge may state that scores are a direct comparison but common reading comprehension should prevent misunderstandings.
  
 $5 for a Recon3D USB is a crazy deal. Too bad there are none nearby, I'd stop in and pick up a spare for travel purposes. THX vs DH is a topic where I bounce back and forth. I prefer THX for some games and DH for others. And your AVR340 could potentially drive headphones very well. MLE ran his headphones off a Marantz receiver for a while before it crapped out on him. Best way to tell if yours is suited for the task is to try it out and see.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> MLE did explicitly state that the scores should not be compared to one another. It's the third sentence on his initial post. "*I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.​*" Common knowledge may state that scores are a direct comparison but common reading comprehension should prevent misunderstandings.
> 
> $5 for a Recon3D USB is a crazy deal. Too bad there are none nearby, I'd stop in and pick up a spare for travel purposes. THX vs DH is a topic where I bounce back and forth. I prefer THX for some games and DH for others. And your AVR340 could potentially drive headphones very well. MLE ran his headphones off a Marantz receiver for a while before it crapped out on him. Best way to tell if yours is suited for the task is to try it out and see.


 
 Of course, that was made very clear.  I wasn't really referring to comparing scores, as I thought I made it pretty clear this morning that MLE misunderstood the intent of my question (because I worded it poorly).  I was talking more about other things.  Here's an example, and this may sound really dumb to you guys, but bear with me.  I actually am STILL not 100% sure if the Mixamp 5.8 is just a wireless transmitter or if it actually does the DH conversion as well.  It's never explicitly stated anywhere and since the product is discontinued, I couldn't even find the info on the Astro site.
  
 Thanks for the info on the AVR.  I had to grab a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor so I could test my (super crappy) headset with the AVR.  I'll know more tonight on how good it sounds on ****ty cans.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Of course, that was made very clear.  I wasn't really referring to comparing scores, as I thought I made it pretty clear this morning that MLE misunderstood the intent of my question (because I worded it poorly).  I was talking more about other things.  Here's an example, and this may sound really dumb to you guys, but bear with me.  I actually am STILL not 100% sure if the Mixamp 5.8 is just a wireless transmitter or if it actually does the DH conversion as well.  It's never explicitly stated anywhere and since the product is discontinued, I couldn't even find the info on the Astro site.
> 
> Thanks for the info on the AVR.  I had to grab a 1/4" to 1/8" adaptor so I could test my (super crappy) headset with the AVR.  I'll know more tonight on how good it sounds on ****ty cans.


 
  
 Yes, the Mixamp 5.8 handles both the transmission/reception of the wireless signal and the base unit itself does the processing for Dolby Headphone. Since your receiver can handle it, you wouldn't need a Mixamp. You could use another wireless transmitter to go wireless, but you don't need a device to process the sound.


----------



## roguegeek

axelcloris said:


> MLE did explicitly state that the scores should not be compared to one another. It's the third sentence on his initial post. "*I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.​*" Common knowledge may state that scores are a direct comparison but common reading comprehension should prevent misunderstandings.


 
 I agree, this should be specific enough if someone is reading _everything_. Yet, the confusion exists. I would imaging this has to do with there just being a lot of content in the guide and the people who are going to check it out are going to ingest only what they feel like is value-added for them. So maybe, as a help to readers since this is suppose to be a digestible guide, there is something that can be done to make that information louder. I had a couple suggestions above, but I don't know what's going to be right because I'm not the one telling the story. It should just be looked at as something that could use some improvement. I mean, do we not agree it could be better or is there really a stance of, "this is as good as it's going to get?" If that's the case, I'll gladly refrain from anymore feedback on this subject.


----------



## Sam21

*Question regarding THX TruStudio Pro on Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Go! Pro :*  
  
 There is an option in the driver software that lets you turn on the THX surround, But there is no option to select  5.1 or 7.1 input channels.
  
 Also, when I go to playback devices/choose Go!Pro/configure, I can only choose 2 channels there... Can someone explain to me what is happening here ?
  
 We can only feed the sound card with two channels ?


----------



## chicolom

I understand why a non-comparative scoring system is used.  It's really no different than how a headphone would get reviewed on a site like Amazon.  Take the KSC75 for example.  It's an amazing headphone and absolutely deserves 4-5 stars.  No consensus of people would agree to rate the KSC75 as being only a 2-3 star headphone, but with a relative scoring system it would need to be down there to make room for the better headphones.  The KSC75 is good, but it isn't on par with the best mid-fi phones.  Even the best mid-fi headphones would need to make room for things like flagships, so they would be closer to 3-4 stars only.  4-5 stars would be reserved for the absolute best (flagships).
  
  
 At the same time, I can understand the confusion of using the non-comparative scoring system, especially since people tend to skip over the bolded text emphasizing it.    
  


roguegeek said:


> In contrast, you have something like Battle Of The Flagships where a scoring system is employed, it's comparative, and there is a decent amount of time spent on describing the methodology. My constructive feedback would possibly then be to work this guide towards something more extensive and complete like the flagship comparison or possibly keep it in the spirit of a guide where things don't have hard scores and impressions are emphasized instead.


 
  
 Are you just suggesting that MLE should sort the headphones by "absolute performance" instead of the current "by price" sorting?
  
 The only actual scores given in David Mahler's thread are the "For the Price" letter grades he assigns headphones (ie, value), where something like the SR009 scores lower than an AKG K501.  I feel like sorting by absolute performance wouldn't necessarily be a solution, as people would then keep asking things like _"I see you put the Q701 higher than the HD558 on the list, but exactly how much better is the Q701 than the HD558???"  _
  
 No matter which route you go with, there's no way to quantify exactly how much better one headphone is than the other - which is a common question that new members repeatedly ask about headphones.  Ranking by absolute performance (like David Mahler's Thread) won't answer that either.  The only way to quantify them would be to assign an absolute performance score (not just an ordered ranking) to each headphone, but I don't think two similar headphones should try and be quantified in that way as personal preferences play such a huge role.  People would just look at the number and say _"Oh, the HE400 has higher overall score than the MA900.  I guess I should go with the HE400 then."_  Even though they might find the recessed mids on the HE400 to be a major problem (whereas the mids are a strength on the MA900) - something they could have gleamed if they had read the review instead of just comparing scores and going with the best scoring one. 
  
 Ultimately headphone reviews are not and should not be about numbers, as even if two headphones scored exactly the same they will still sound very different.  There's no quick way for someone to "cheat" and quickly assess a headphone's sound by just reading a numbered score.  You have to read the review in order to try understand what the headphone's own personal signature is and its soundstage performance in order to get an idea of how it sounds.  This is what makes researching and shopping for headphones tough (and of course the fact that the majority of them aren't available to demo at stores).  After trying different headphones for a while and developing some experience and your own personal tastes it then becomes easier to understand how a headphone will sound by reading a review - and more importantly whether or not YOU will like it.


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> ...People would just look at the number and say _"Oh, the HE400 has higher overall score than the MA900.  I guess I should go with the HE400 then."_  Even though they might find the recessed mids on the HE400 to be a major problem (whereas the mids are a strength on the MA900) - something they could have gleamed if they had read the review instead of just comparing scores and going with the best scoring one.
> Ultimately headphone reviews are not and should not be about numbers, as even if two headphones scored exactly the same they will still sound very different.  There's no quick way for someone to "cheat" and quickly assess a headphone's sound by just reading a numbered score.  You have to read the review in order to try understand what the headphone's own personal signature is and its soundstage performance in order to get an idea of how it sounds.  This is what makes researching and shopping for headphones tough (and of course the fact that the majority of them aren't available to demo at stores).  After trying different headphones for a while and developing some experience and your own personal tastes it then becomes easier to understand how a headphone will sound by reading a review - and more importantly whether or not YOU will like it.


 
 See you call out a major problem here, which is that (for the most part) there's not really any way for us to try these for ourselves without buying and returning.  And if we're relatively new to the head-fi thing, something like "recessed mids" is not really helpful.  "7/10" is a lot easier to understand for noobies, which is suspect was the intention originally.
  
 Honestly, and I really don't mean this as a dig at MLE, the only good reason to use relative ratings is because it's a *LOT* of work to go back and update the ratings when things change.  Not to mention MLE may not have the items anymore to re-test against new competition.  That's perfectly reasonable.
  
 But in return, I'd expect MLE and others to understand that the result of that is that people are going to be a little confused and a little adrift and they're going to cling to the only thing that makes sense... "7/10".
  
 Maybe it'd work to have absolute ratings within a given bracket?  Like a 7/10 in the $300+ range could be better than a 7/10 in the $150-300 range.  This would be a little more concrete and allow slightly more apples-to-apples comparisons for noobies, while still allowing the flexibility of the relative ratings system.


----------



## Sam21

I personally think that MLE's guide is misleading, and sometimes contradictory, He says for instance that the Q701 is 98% as good as the K701 in the competitive category, yet he gives it a 9.5 score. Also, There is no way in hell you can measure these things like soundstage and recession of mids. it is barely noticable, it isn't like a mathematical computation where things are exact and you can assign definite values to certain variables. Heck, even the Headphone makers themselves can't do that. Moreover, he doesn't say what the source/DAC/AMp he used to test each headphone.
  
  
 Just my Two cents


----------



## Eric_C

sam21 said:


> Moreover, he doesn't say what the source/DAC/AMp he used to test each headphone.


 
  
 Isn't it always the MixAmp, and an additional amp if necessary?


----------



## chicolom

sam21 said:


> I personally think that MLE's guide is misleading, and sometimes contradictory, He says for instance that the Q701 is 98% as good as the K701 in the competitive category, yet he gives it a 9.5 score. Also, There is no way in hell you can measure these things like soundstage and recession of mids. it is barely noticable, it isn't like a mathematical computation where things are exact and you can assign definite values to certain variables. Heck, even the Headphone makers themselves can't do that. Moreover, he doesn't say what the source/DAC/AMp he used to test each headphone.
> 
> 
> Just my Two cents


 
  
  
 How is it misleading?  Because he wrote 9.5 instead of 9.8, or because he even writes a numbered score at all when you can't really quantify a headphone's sound with numbers? 
  
 MLE is obviously aware of how hard-to-drive headphones are affected by underamping, so I could care less about him mentioning source/DAC/AMP used as that's not going to color the review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll just go ahead and pull all the numbers from my reviews, and people can just interpret my reviews the way they see fit. Should be fun.


----------



## Change is Good

*yawn*

Can we talk about something else guys?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> *yawn*
> 
> Can we talk about something else guys?


 
  
 Hooray, they did the thing at the place in the olympics.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Hooray, they did the thing at the place in the olympics.




I ate nachos while watching the thing they did at the place in the Olympics...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It should be common sense that putting 30+ headphones on a ultimate tier list is impossible, when I haven't heard some of these headphones in years.

It's illogical to compare a headphone I've heard recently to a headphone I last heard 3 years ago. Memory is not something I or anyone should trust, especially when it comes sound last heard months to years ago.

I DON'T own all these headphones. Doing ultimate comparisons based off memory is just not something I or anyone shouldn't feel confident about. This is why I tell people that A/B comparisons are incredibly important, like when swapping pads, getting your headphones modded, etc. So much expectation bias, etc. I never trust those who send their headphones in for modding, get them back, and gush about how much better they became. 

 Unless I had headphone A and B directly on hand, (and at the LEAST, if I no longer have a headphone, it'd be something I had very recently), I would feel like I'm giving false information about how well one headphone compares to another.

I feel, and it will always this way: I will review and score a headphone based off it's own merits. That is final. If you want to know the percentage headphone A is better than headphone B, buy them yourselves. I'd like to think that I give just enough information on a headphone's characteristics, it's pros and cons to see if you'll like them. My scores give you an idea how I feel they perform in the grand scheme of things. Are they good for gaming? Yes/no. Are they fun? yes/no. Are they comfortable? Yes/no. How good? Great, which is better than good. Amazing, which is better than great.

Other reviewers may have an ultimate tier list, but I'd like to believe that it's because they have those headphones on hand. I, do not. 

Take that as you will. Not going to change. The only thing that changes is the evolution of how I write reviews. I started this guide to have some personal database. It wasn't going to be a guide on full reviews. It became that down the line, but all I wanted to do in the beginning was add headphones, and a short summary if they're decent or not. You can see this in my older reviews (like the D7000, or AD700). The guide grew it's own legs, and evolved, but there's just some things that are impossible to do, and comparing headphones so in-depth is impossible.

Another thing that needs to be understood, is that some of the entries are incredibly old, and not updated. For example, I said the DT880 was the most balanced headphone I had ever owned. At that point in time, it was. I have since heard better, but again, it doesn't make the DT880 worse. Hence why I say, take the reviews on a per headphone basis, and understand some of the entries are a bit old and don't reflect things I have heard more recently. I do need to update these things eventually, which is my own fault in these regards. I'll have to refrain from saying things like that, since there will always be something better down the line.


I have also added a sort of tier list at the beginning of the guide, to show which headphones I favor for fun, competitive, all rounders. That should be a GOOD place to start, when it comes to what I find worthwhile on this guide.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I say bravo for all the work you've done. Fugg the haters...

And while on that note, let me know when you're ready to review the 1540 however the fugg you want to...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> MY TOP CHOICES (for quick reference)
> 
> Competitive:
> 
> ...




There, personal bias choices. Did you guys miss these? Start there, look at the entry, see if you like what you're reading, and go from there. Is it really worth you getting a micro-percentage boost in SQ for $300 more, because you want THE ULTIMATE BESTEDT HEADPHONZ EVR? I have said, a headphone might be slightly better, but when you hit a certain threshold in performance, choosing one over the other is more based on personal preference, and not because one headphone is gonna catch an audio cue the other won't. If you think this is true... I feel sorry for you. Save yourself the trouble, get an HD800, and play your games in ignorance. Surely, you'll do MUCH better than a guy with an AD700... after all, it's worth $1200 more, and has way better SQ...right?

Or is it that you guys absolutely need me to hand hold you and tell you which of these is right FOR YOU? I do my best to give a description on the sound signature (admittedly better now than years ago). I can only help you so much.

I get so many, so many PMs asking the same crap over and over. The same general apologies ("I'm sorry if I'm bothering you, is the AD700 better than the Q701? It scored higher, so i'm wondering if I should save my money if I want the bestest competitive gaming ever.")

I'm not gonna reply to these messages. I'm just not. I'll go 90% of the way to helping, you decide for yourself if it's worth it to you or not. I'm not you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, I say bravo for all the work you've done. Fugg the haters...
> 
> And while on that note, let me know when you're ready to review the 1540 however the fugg you want to...




We'll see, lol. I'm in a mess of things at the moment. Still gotta deal with the DNA review, which is going to be sloooooow to come.



I would LOVE to go back and re-do ALL the old reviews in the new style. I was actually contemplating on removing all the old, barren 'reviews' since they're not much a review, but rather just a general list with a short opinion on performance. Very hard to grasp a good idea how the older headphones compare to the newer ones, even if comparing them just by the review.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> How did I give the DNA On Ear a 7, when I haven't even reviewed it yet? I reviewed the DNA Pro. Two completely different headphones.
> 
> *I'm using the DNA because I don't have a headset on hand*, and the DNA works with the Vmoda BoomPro. My A30s are currently at Astro for fixing or replacing. Again, this is only when I voice chat on CoD with my buddies. I use my MA900 every other time.
> 
> And this is why I wish I never went with a scoring system. ONLY a 7? A 7 is GOOD. Good =/= bad. Anything I rate good is good enough to use. If not, I wouldn't have said they're good.


 
  
 *cough*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CALPIS, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? 

Now I'm VERY curious. 

To be honest with you guys, I'm at the point where I want to sell the MA900, and re-purchase the Yuin G1A (hopefully without a defective driver).

I find myself using headphones more when laying down, and nothing beats clip ons in that regard. The DNA is also a great laying down headphone, due to the small footprint. The MA900 is too big big to lay down with.

I'm kind of over headphones in general, and don't use my MA900s much either. I have actually been using my hacked PX100-II more than not, and only because it's the only clip on I have atm.

I'm liking the smaller designs now after having experienced the A30s and DNA. Actually interested in the M80s...if they were like 50% cheaper.

If only the B&W P3 sounded good. Man... I loved those, comfort-wise.


----------



## calpis

Lol, it's pretty hard not to figure out. Just fulfilling a promise because I found a good deal.
  
 *cough* thirstday *cough*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I see it's a headset. 

OMGZ, DENON D7000 HEADSET EDITION. I LOVE YOU


----------



## calpis

I know a guy in jampan named Hanzo. Custom to the gillz.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I EXPECT THESE THEN


----------



## calpis

Close but the cups are made of mokume gane.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Mad, I say bravo for all the work you've done. Fugg the haters...
> 
> And while on that note, let me know when you're ready to review the 1540 however the fugg you want to...


 
 I am most definitely interested in seeing where these land in this guide.
  
 Change, I was gone for a while late last year, but did you ever try out the 940? My impressions still hold true with that one.


----------



## Godflight

Are the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros good for gaming? I wouldn't mind the overwhelming bass- that's what I love when it comes to headphones. I really think the DT 770s are for me.


----------



## Mad Max

They are alright.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> There, personal bias choices. Did you guys miss these? Start there, look at the entry, see if you like what you're reading, and go from there. Is it really worth you getting a micro-percentage boost in SQ for $300 more, because you want THE ULTIMATE BESTEDT HEADPHONZ EVR? I have said, a headphone might be slightly better, but when you hit a certain threshold in performance, choosing one over the other is more based on personal preference, and not because one headphone is gonna catch an audio cue the other won't. If you think this is true... I feel sorry for you. Save yourself the trouble, get an HD800, and play your games in ignorance. Surely, you'll do MUCH better than a guy with an AD700... after all, it's worth $1200 more, and has way better SQ...right?
> 
> Or is it that you guys absolutely need me to hand hold you and tell you which of these is right FOR YOU? I do my best to give a description on the sound signature (admittedly better now than years ago). I can only help you so much.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I understand how you feel, all too well.
  
 Some people just want to be told everything, instead of finding out the answers themselves with a little guidance. Quite a shame, given how we all hear differently, fit things on our heads differently and have different preferences in general.
  
 This thread's meant to be a guideline, a sort of reference point where people can get started and work out from there. It's not an empirical "these headphones are the only headphones you should ever buy for gaming" list, particularly since you have limited time, limited money, and you usually have to pay up in full for these headphones up-front rather than just covering the cost of shipping.
  


godflight said:


> Are the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros good for gaming? I wouldn't mind the overwhelming bass- that's what I love when it comes to headphones. I really think the DT 770s are for me.


 
  
 If they're anything like my MMX 300 (a DT770 Premium 32-ohm with a good mic attached), they're good enough for gaming with virtual surround, rest assured.


----------



## Evshrug

Good to see multiple minds thinking around the need for easy readability and anticipating questions before they're asked.

Some of this has already been addressed, such as the X1 (it takes the DT990's strengths and improves them, making the DT990's at similar prices obsolete) and the MA900 (Recommended all-rounder for any low-budget search over the Koss KSC75), good job, some good suggestions have been made (a * rating like Amazon, or a wider number range, relative to price-class competitors), and some things might never change (people don't realize Mad can't afford to own more than one or two headphones at a time, and that Mad can't do request reviews unless someone sponsors it). It's just, you know, there's no sense in taking the fun out of writing reviews... And if I give a headphone recommendation, I often ask the person to follow up with their impressions about their choice.


----------



## Stillhart

Wow, what an unbelievable hostile environment.  I honestly have never felt this hated on for being a noobie in all my years online (hint, I still remember my old 300 baud modem). 
  
 MLE admits his guide isn't perfect, a lot of it is out of date.  Prices are wrong, conclusions referencing price are wrong when the prices are wrong, and the kicker is that a lot of these aren't even available anymore.  Look, I'm not trying to be a dick, why so hostile when people are asking for clarification?
  
 Thanks for what you've provided, it was certainly helpful and I mean that sincerely.  Now I'll go **** off so you can rage at the next guy instead of simply updating your guide with an FAQ to curb the most common questions.


----------



## chicolom

stillhart said:


> Wow, what an unbelievable hostile environment.  I honestly have never felt this hated on for being a noobie in all my years online (hint, I still remember my old 300 baud modem).
> 
> MLE admits his guide isn't perfect, a lot of it is out of date.  Prices are wrong, conclusions referencing price are wrong when the prices are wrong, and the kicker is that a lot of these aren't even available anymore.  Look, I'm not trying to be a dick, why so hostile when people are asking for clarification?
> 
> Thanks for what you've provided, it was certainly helpful and I mean that sincerely.  Now I'll go **** off so you can rage at the next guy instead of simply updating your guide with an FAQ to curb the most common questions.


 
  
 I think you're misinterpreting.  No one is being hostile @ _you_, it's just a little off-topic ranting going on.


----------



## Evshrug

As far as knowing what "recessed mids" mean... If you're gonna become a headphone enthusiast, you'll pick it up. The target audience probably already knows this, or can easily find it on the audio terms threads on Head-Fi and Headroom and Inner Fidelity, etc. That kind of thing is beyond the scope of this guide... Can't accurately describe something if a reader doesn't even know what bass or mids are.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Recessed mids = vocals and other manner of details found in the midrange frequencies to sound pushed back, lower in volume in comparison to the bass and treble. It can sound muted, hard to hear, etc.

For example, the xb700, makes it hard to hear conversations in Mass effect 2 when you're on the Normandy spaceship, because the hum of the spaceship is so loud (the hum is lower end/bass frequencies). With a headphone that ISN'T recessed in the mids, the conversations will be a lot easier to hear.

HOSTILITY AND ANGUISH SUSTAIN ME


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Wow, what an unbelievable hostile environment.
> 
> Thanks for what you've provided, it was certainly helpful and I mean that sincerely.  Now I'll go **** off so you can rage at the next guy instead of simply updating your guide with an FAQ to curb the most common questions.




Wait, did I miss something? Who said anything heated or like "go away?"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tend to state things bluntly lots of times, and people perceive it as hostile. I get that everywhere, lol. I'm argumentative, but it's mostly just passion of the debate. I don't mean to offend anyone, so I'll ask for those who get offended, grow a backbone, this is the internet. It's hard to gauge the inflection one uses when they type. 

I could just be sweet and nice and try not to walk on anyone's toes, but I don't have the energy to do that. I grew up with guys who rag on each other all the time, so I tend to deflect things in the way I do. Nothing personal, ever.

I like to debate things with the guys here, and I need you all to take it as that, just back and forth. Not trying to slam on anyone or anything. If someone calls me an a-hole, I'll just say 'thanks'. It's not that serious.

TEE HEE HEE AND ALL THAT JAZZ


----------



## iamstumper

Mad Lust Envy back on page 1396 you started polling people for Headphones with 2.5mm or 3.5mm connections. Will this be a new section on the first page - complimenting the headphone and microphone sections? The vmoda boom mic pro + supported(?) Headphone list would definitely give people another option for gaming /communication solutions.

I know after using my IEM's today for travel (on a train hooked to note3 for music and laptop gaming / music from hotel) has me re-evaluating adding m/v80 + mic. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking the same


----------



## chicolom

Speaking of FAQs and adding a FAQ, here are some sample FAQ questions I've jotted down.  Maybe they could be used in the guide. 
  
  


Spoiler: FAQ



[size=medium]
Why are Gaming Headsets often said to be inferior to regular headphones?

In general, headphones (especially "audiophile" or "hi-fi" headphones) tend to have better sound quality than your typical gaming headsets. This is due to a number of reasons, such as: a design more focused on maximizing sound quality instead of maximizing stylish "gaming" looks, an Open Vs. Closed design (most gaming headsets are closed), and simply having _more_ _experience_ at designing headphones than gaming headset companies.

[/size]  
 [size=medium]
What about multi-driver "true surround sound" headphones?  Aren't they better?
No.  Multi-driver headphones make use of tiny drivers with inferior performance to larger stereo (dual driver) headphones.  A better route is a good pair of stereo headphones with a good virtual surround DSP.

[/size]  
 [size=medium]
Do I need an amp?
That depends on your headphone.  All headphones will benefit from an amp, but some benefit more.  Those are usually higher ohm OR lower sensitivity headphones.

[/size]  
 [size=medium]
Will headphone _X_ be a huge improvemet for competitve gaming over the AD700?

 Probably not.  HD800s or SR009 are probably the very best headphones, but nothing is going to be that much of an improvement for competitive gaming over the AD700s. 
Your NOT going to keep getting competitive improvements as you go up in price.  The main improvements your going to get are a more _immersive_ sound (fuller weighter sound, better bass).  Sometimes a more immersive sound counteracts a competitive focused sound though.  Part of the reason the AD700 works so well for soundwhoring is because it sounds bright and bass light (counteracts immersion though). 
So if your looking for the very best headphone for competitve gaming, just get an AD700.  Or get an HD800.  Everything in between the two will offer improvements to _immersion_, but not really improvements for simple competitive sound whoring.  If your willing to trade a little competitive ability for a more immersive and enjoyable sound (and a more audiophile headphone that will be better with music), _then_ you should look at more immersive headphones.
  

[/size] [size=medium]
What traits make for a good competitive gaming headphone?
A non-bassy heavy signature, emphasis on mids and highs to bring out details like footsteps, and a large and accurate sounding soundstage...
  

What traits make for a good immersive gaming headphone?

Dat Bass...
  

[/size] [size=medium]
What' the difference between "Dolby Digital" and "Dolby Headphone"?
  

_Dolby Digital_ surround and _Dolby Headphone_ surround are NOT the same thing.

 Dolby Digital is a compressed and encoded 5.1 channel signal which can ONLY be passed through optical or HDMI. Dolby Digital is _actual_ surround sound (5.1 channel), NOT _virtual_ surround sound for headphones (2 channel).  You can't listen to Dolby Digital with headphones, unless your headphone has multiple drivers.  To get virtual surround for your headphones you need to process that 5.1 channel into a 2 channel (stereo) signal that your _stereo_ headphones can actually use.  That's where _Dolby Headphone_ comes in.  

 Dolby Headphone is a virtual surround sound DSP for headphones which takes a Dolby Digital 5.1 channel signal and downmixes and processes into a special 2 channel stereo signal that any headphone can use.  Since it's just a 2 channel stereo signal, any 3.5mm jack will output it and it will work with any regular stereo headphone (although some work better than others).  Even though it's only a stereo signal, it still sounds like surround sound when used with headphones because the Dolby Headphone DSP adds head related transfer function cues to the signal, which fool the brain into the hearing the same surround sound that was in the original 5.1 signal.
  

My PC has optical/toslink out.  Will I be able to plug in a device like the Astro Mixamp or Ear Force DSS?

Maybe.  It depends on whether your computer's sound card is capable of encoding games into Dolby Digital and outputting that signal through optical.
  

Can I have more than one DAC in the audio chain?  Can I "chain" DACs together?
NO.  You only convert the signal from digital to analog ONE time, so the first device in the chain that gives you an analog signal is your DAC and will be the _only_ DAC in the chain.
  

Should I get a mixamp if I'm gaming on PC?

No, probably not.  Devices like the Mixamp are mainly recommended for consoles.  For PC's a better solution is an internal soundcard.
  

What's the difference between Pro Logic II and Dolby Headphone?/What is Pro Logic II?
Pro Logic II is basically a 2 channel signal upconverted to interpolated mutli-channel surround, while Dolby Headphone is basically multi-channel surround down-converted to 2 channel stereo with virtual surround from added HRTF cues.

[/size]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chico...










I'll probably just steal that ENTIRE THING. Seriously. I think since I'm too damned lazy to do all this, you guys will be a tremendous help in adding to the guide with these things.

I still haven't added the Vmoda Boom pro.... What.

As for the Vmoda list, yes, that's my intention. It's also what I believe most people should go with, since you're bound to find a very good headphone with a removable cable that will house the vmoda boompro cable, giving you a hell of a headphone+mic with no extra clutter.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> I'm kind of over headphones in general, and don't use my MA900s much either.


 
  
 Why?
  
 As for myself, I'll be waiting to move to a place where I can setup large speakers more freely and improve a bit on my HT. That would be the moment where I tone down the headphone collection.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, I guess its the comfort of not wearing anything? Kinda wanna get another soundbar for the tv. Whwnever I need headphones... the monster cans are doing fine, as well as my clip ons


----------



## PippoXD

hello,
  
 I have a problem, i need closed (isolating) headphones with the best possible "competitive rating" to use at counter strike global offensive lan's. I understand its better to be open for surround, but for me this is pretty much impossible, or i'd keep using my pc363d. I know im talking PC here, but i need headphone advice and am having trouble finding it.
  
 I dont have a sound card, i intend to buy one as well so no restrictions there (advice on this issue would also be appreciated, but im here for headphones).
  
 From what i can gather, Mad Dogs are my best option, because the alpha dogs and the d7000 are much more expensive. However in the review it says that they are more fun than competitive. Are there other options available with better "competitive"?
  
 How would the mad dogs compare to something like the g4me zero, the akg 550 or the ath-a900x in competitive terms?


----------



## martin vegas

Can I still use my arcam r dac over optical with a ps4? my dac has no decoders and will only accept a stereo signal!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

About to move out unexpectedly (in the coming weeks, due to a-hole roommate moving out and not paying his share of bills), so I need so emergency funds.

Selling my MA900: $140 total. PM if interested.


----------



## AverageGamer

change is good said:


> I'd look into the Soundmagic HP100, Mad Dog, or even the new AKG K545 for closed options at your price range.


 
 Thank you for you reply.
  
 I have read (and reread about 50x) the OP guide. To be straight-forward, I get rather confused with the scoring. I understand each score pertains to each headphone BUT it would be nice if the cans were separated into Open/Closed categories. His recommendations for "All-a-rounders" is also confusing. Some are listed in the competitive section but not in the fun category and vice-verse.
  
*Simple question: *are there any CLOSED (great isolation from outside noise) cans that can be regard as the #1 go-to for both great sounding music and gaming? HP100's/HP200's? I find the Mad Dogs ugly but will definitely sacrifice the "look" for great cans. They are also rather expensive. Finally, I have read mixed reviews on the AKG K545's. If it helps, my main genre of music is hip-hop, RnB, some rock and electronica. My main gaming perspective is FPS (COD, BF) on consoles. Again, I own the A40's along with the 5.8 Mixamp. Thanks again for all replies.


----------



## calpis

Dude.... that blows. You know I'd buy those cans off you but like I just quit my job yesterday lol.
  
 In other news, Strider on steam in a couple hours!!!!!


----------



## calpis

averagegamer said:


> Thank you for you reply.
> 
> I have read (and reread about 50x) the OP guide. To be straight-forward, I get rather confused with the scoring. I understand each score pertains to each headphone BUT it would be nice if the cans were separated into Open/Closed categories. His recommendations for "All-a-rounders" is also confusing. Some are listed in the competitive section but not in the fun category and vice-verse.
> 
> *Simple question: *are there any CLOSED (great isolation from outside noise) cans that can be regard as the #1 go-to for both great sounding music and gaming? HP100's/HP200's? I find the Mad Dogs ugly but will definitely sacrifice the "look" for great cans. They are also rather expensive. Finally, I have read mixed reviews on the AKG K545's. If it helps, my main genre of music is hip-hop, RnB, some rock and electronica. My main gaming perspective is FPS (COD, BF) on consoles. Again, I own the A40's along with the 5.8 Mixamp. Thanks again for all replies.


 
  
 There's always the MMX 300's or their equivalent non-headset model.


----------



## AverageGamer

calpis said:


> There's always the MMX 300's or their equivalent non-headset model.


 
 I am not really in the market for a "headset". I want a set that is both music and gaming (positional) friendly but are closed to eliminate outside noise. Any other suggestions? I would go with the Q701 (K702 Annies are to expensive) but they are an open can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like he said, the headphone equivalent; DT770 32ohm.


----------



## AverageGamer

mad lust envy said:


> Like he said, the headphone equivalent; DT770 32ohm.


 
 Thanks for reply...
  
 But these would be your #1 go to headset for both gaming and music; "all-in-ones"? How about the HP100's? any experience with them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. the only closed headphones that isolate well that I've experienced are:

HD201
Pro 900
DT770 Pro 80
M50
SHP2500
DT770 600 ohm
HP800
Mad Dog
Alpha Dog
DNA Pro

Out of all of these, the ones I'd use for gaming and music are the last 3. Only the Alpha Dog truly impresses on all fronts. The Mad Dog and DNA pro are amazing for music, good for gaming, but not blow your socks off amazing in pure competitive gameplay.

I'm not really a fan of closed headphone gaming.


----------



## AverageGamer

mad lust envy said:


> No. the only closed headphones that isolate well that I've experienced are:
> 
> Pro 900
> DT770 Pro 80
> ...


 
 Thank you for making this a lot clearer. I have been searching your thread and various other sites for a straight forward answer. Hopefully, your post here will help others; if not save them time. Much appreciated!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've added a few more to the last post.

My favorite closed headphones in general (all forms of media):

Creative Aurvana Live
D7000
Alpha Dog
Mad Dog


----------



## PippoXD

what closed(good isolation) headphones would you prefer for competitive gaming?


----------



## roguegeek

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> No. the only closed headphones that isolate well that I've experienced are:
> 
> HD201
> Pro 900
> ...


 
  


pippoxd said:


> what closed(good isolation) headphones would you prefer for competitive gaming?


 
  
 He _literally_ just answered that question.


----------



## PippoXD

He _literally did not, he said that on that list as the headphones that are closed and isolate well. The last 3 are for gaming/music._
  
_Now in that list i suppose there are 3 categories_
 -good for music only
 -good for competitive gaming
 -good for music/gaming (balanced)
  
 Or did i miss something?


----------



## AverageGamer

pippoxd said:


> He _literally did not, he said that on that list as the headphones that are closed and isolate well. The last 3 are for gaming/music._
> 
> _Now in that list i suppose there are 3 categories_
> -good for music only
> ...




I believe the "go to" closed headset for competitive sound whoring would be alpha dogs, then mad dogs then, from what I have both read and got answered, a mix from dt770, hp100s and Aurvana. Please correct me if I'm incorrect. Myself, leaning towards dt770s but leaning more toward the hp100s.

To me, both dogs are physically ugly but sound phenomenal. The downside is they cost 2x more than my car payment/month.


----------



## roguegeek

pippoxd said:


> He _literally did not, he said that on that list as the headphones that are closed and isolate well. The last 3 are for gaming/music._
> 
> _Now in that list i suppose there are 3 categories_
> -good for music only
> ...


 
 You missed something. Re-read his comments and check out the ones he mentioned in the guide. The impressions make it pretty clear which ones are favored for what.


----------



## PippoXD

Yes, i get it now, thanks.
  
 So im thinking based on the reviews,
 -DNA pro
 -Pro 900
 -Mad Dog (not sure they ship to portugal, and if they do its probably way more expensive than for US[shipping+tax], no?)
  
 Also the Alpha dogs and the D7000, but the alpha are too expensive for me, same for D7000.
  
 I also came across the new Creative Aurvana Live 2 Platinum which have ANC, any opinions on these for competitive gaming?


----------



## chicolom

pippoxd said:


> I also came across the new Creative Aurvana Live 2 Platinum which have ANC, any opinions on these for competitive gaming?


 
  
  
 FWIR the CAL2! is ineferior to the original CAL! (which is also cheaper).


----------



## PippoXD

chicolom said:


> FWIR the CAL2! is ineferior to the original CAL! (which is also cheaper).


 
 oh, ok! i guess my only options are those 3 others then 
  
 EDIT: Did you read stuff about the Platinum edition or the others or both? The platinum have 50mm, while the others have 40mm


----------



## chicolom

pippoxd said:


> EDIT: Did you read stuff about the Platinum edition or the others or both? The platinum have 50mm, while the others have 40mm


 
  
 I don't know anything about the "platinum", but for $300 it had better be pretty damn good.  Given that it has a similar housing design as the CAL2, I'm going to assume that the "platinum" is not worth the price until proven otherwise.


----------



## martin vegas

Thoughts on the alienware steam machine?


----------



## Adynos

I just received the dt990 pro 250 ohms and FiiO e17+e09k combo that I ordered.  I seem to be having some issues though.  I have the e09k plugged into my computer via usb, e17 docked, headphones plugged in, and can power on the device.  I can hear audio but only for a short amount of time (anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes) and then the audio just stops all together.  If I turn the e09k off and then back on I again have audio for a short amount of time only for it to stop again.  What am I doing wrong/missing?


----------



## AvroArrow

adynos said:


> I just received the dt990 pro 250 ohms and FiiO e17+e09k combo that I ordered.  I seem to be having some issues though.  I have the e09k plugged into my computer via usb, e17 docked, headphones plugged in, and can power on the device.  I can hear audio but only for a short amount of time (anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes) and then the audio just stops all together.  If I turn the e09k off and then back on I again have audio for a short amount of time only for it to stop again.  What am I doing wrong/missing?


 
  
 Try undocking the E17 and plug that directly into the computer.  PC USB > E17 > Headphones.  See if it cuts out then.  If it keeps playing fine, then you've got a defective E09k.  I bought a E09k that was DOA just after xmas.  Swapped it at the store for another one, and the new one... the blue LED is dying, like sometimes it stays on, sometimes it'll flicker, then go out completely.  Audio still works though.  This thing is only 2 months old.  Gotta find time to bring it back to the store again.  Ugh.  I wish the store would hurry up and restock the Asgard 2 so I could buy that.


----------



## Adynos

avroarrow said:


> Try undocking the E17 and plug that directly into the computer.  PC USB > E17 > Headphones.  See if it cuts out then.  If it keeps playing fine, then you've got a defective E09k.  I bought a E09k that was DOA just after xmas.  Swapped it at the store for another one, and the new one... the blue LED is dying, like sometimes it stays on, sometimes it'll flicker, then go out completely.  Audio still works though.  This thing is only 2 months old.  Gotta find time to bring it back to the store again.  Ugh.  I wish the store would hurry up and restock the Asgard 2 so I could buy that.


 
 Okay.  I'll give this a try.  
  
 Progress Update:  I actually made it through a song with just the e17 and not the e09k!
  
 Edit:  So Since I have just gone directly out of the e17 I have had no issues.  I think we have found the problem.  A bad e09k.
  
 I guess I will be returning it for a refund unless there is just simply some option/setting I am missing somewhere?


----------



## Swordsman

Hi MadLustEnvy,
  
 im currently use Creative Aurana Live for gaming and movies.
  
 i find that the volume and bass is lacking ?
  
 any recommendation of amplifier to amplify the sound ?


----------



## AverageGamer

Astro mixamp


----------



## chicolom

swordsman said:


> Hi MadLustEnvy,
> 
> im currently use Creative Aurana Live for gaming and movies.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You need to give more info. 
  
 Gaming and movies...on PC or on a console?  What's your current setup/source?  The CALs aren't hard to drive, so you either have a weak source or something is off.
  
 The CALs are already bass-heavy, and an amp won't really increase the bass.


----------



## chicolom

martin vegas said:


> Thoughts on the alienware steam machine?


 
  
 It should be just like every other Alienware PC - overpriced for what you get.
  
 Alienware even said that it's non-upgradeable, which is kind of the whole point of a PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HOW DARE YOU, I LOVE MY OVERPRICED ALIENWARE M17X R4 THAT I BOUGHT BECAUSE IT HAS AN HDMI INPUT THAT I ALMOST NEVER USE!























I could've saved like $700 or more if I had just went with another companie's gaming laptop without the HDMI input.


----------



## mikaveli06

Considering demon ah-d600 or at ad900x. How do I use voice chat if headf one cable doesn't have a mic?


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> HOW DARE YOU, I LOVE MY OVERPRICED ALIENWARE M17X R4 THAT I BOUGHT BECAUSE IT HAS AN HDMI INPUT THAT I ALMOST NEVER USE!
> 
> I could've saved like $700 or more if I had just went with another companie's gaming laptop without the HDMI input.


 
  
  
 I will admit that an HDMI _INPUT_ is a cool feature which I wished a whole lot more laptops had.  I think if you payed for the laptop hardware you should be able to use the LCD screen with other sources.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> HOW DARE YOU, I LOVE MY OVERPRICED ALIENWARE M17X R4 THAT I BOUGHT BECAUSE IT HAS AN HDMI INPUT THAT I ALMOST NEVER USE!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Appropriate, I just wrote an article on MSI's newest laptops. But still no HDMI in.
  
 http://thegamefanatics.com/2014/02/19/msis-newest-laptops-will-help-destroy-enemies


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mika, can you repeat that? Not understanding what you're saying.

The D600 is dual entry, so something like the Vmoda boom pro (which works with single 3.5mm inputs on the headphone) won't work. You'll have to go the old route of using a standard external mic like the Antlion mod mic. Any headphone can become a headset, but you'll have to contend with another wire going from your headphone to your source.


----------



## Echoless

Hi there,
  
First of all, thank you Mad Lust for putting this thread together. So much information condensed into this thread, it really helps people like me who are just starting to explore different headphones, especially for console gaming. I just had a few questions I was hoping you or anyone else could answer. 
  
 Before reading through your reviews, I was interested in purchasing the Sennheiser HD 598, but now it seems like the MA900 may be the better option. I personally, haven't tried any of these headphones, so I cannot comment on sound quality etc, and previously the best gaming headset I've used was the TB Kilo (crap, I know). I've never really had a headset that I truly thought was worth the money. I always thought that the higher end TB/Astro/Tritton models were overpriced, and as such never looked into them.  I purchased the PS4 over the holidays and noticed that the DS4 allowed any 3.5mm headphone, so I started fiddling around with headphones (cheap ones, mind you) and decided to do some research. I realized that many PC gamers were using headphones and a mic, as opposed to a headset and after asking around, most people pointed me to Head-fi.
  
 Personally, I was looking for something that had a good all around performance, that didn't sacrifice too much when it came to competitive play. In an ideal world I would get a pair of cans for competitive play and another for entertainment, but that would break the bank . D7000 seemed appealing, but even two headphones would be cheaper, and being a student I have a budget sadly.
  
 From your review the MA900 seems like the best of both worlds. In addition to just the cans, is it worth the investment for a Mixamp or DSS2? If so, which would you recommend? I would personally also like to use the V-MODA BoomPro, I watched your unboxing and that seems more ideal than a modmic, and the audio test seems fine.
  
 I would appreciate any advice, thank you.
  
 Echo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A fine starter (possibly end) would be the Fidelio X1 + Vmoda BoomPro.

I highly doubt that combo will disappoint many, especially first timers.

The reasons why I suggest something like the Mixamp is on the first page. I wholeheartedly recommend getting either that or at LEAST a Creative Recon3D as an alternative.

This is assuming you game on consoles. If you game on PC, I'd say go for something cheap like a Xonar DG (internal), or Xonar U3 (external). Both can be found for like $30 or so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have updated the guide with the Vmoda Boom pro + it's compatibility list (please help me to update this list).

I've also overhauled the external microphone section with updated entries to all mics, including links, images, and with the DX mic, extra info on alternatives to it (neweer and HDE clip ons sold on Amazon)


----------



## benbenkr

adynos said:


> Okay.  I'll give this a try.
> 
> Progress Update:  I actually made it through a song with just the e17 and not the e09k!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi, I think I know your issue.

 The problem is that your E17 isn't making proper contact with the E09k. The E17 needs to sit straight up in order for it to make proper contact with the E09k's dock.
 This issue can be fixed by removing the bump on the wall of the E09k's dock, and sticking a thicker piece of rubber to hold up the E17.
  
 If you don't understand what I'm saying, watch this video - http://youtu.be/bZck_ZDT0FY?t=6m55s
 He has the same issue as you do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yeah, I had the same issue at one point when I had the combo. The E09k is finicky when it comes to the E17. The E9 had less of a problem with the E7, due to it being a little bulkier.


----------



## haplo84

Does V-Moda BoomPro compatible with Sennheiser HD598? Anyone tried?


----------



## chicolom

haplo84 said:


> Does V-Moda BoomPro compatible with Sennheiser HD598? Anyone tried?


 
  
 I don't _think_ it will work because the HD598 has a twist lock mechanism to it's plug/jack.
  
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm not sure standard 2.5mm connectors would simply fit in there... So the 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter may not work for the HD598 and BoomPro.




[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0eK9Uwlr9w#t=26.[/VIDEO]

Razer Kraken Forged? That's one hell of a nice looking headphone. I say headphone because it comes with a detachable 3.5mm cable. Again though, it twists and locks, so not sure the BoomPro would work in this case, though it comes with an inline mic cable.

390g seems a bit heavy, though considering the airplane-grade aluminum, i wouldn't expect it to be featherweight. It looks classy though a bit Beats Pro-ish.


----------



## Fegefeuer

chicolom said:


> I don't _think_ it will work because the HD598 has a twist lock mechanism to it's plug/jack.
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.


 
  
 Yes, it's a bayonet connection compatible to the Ultrasone Signature Series. It twists in.


----------



## mikaveli06

mad lust envy said:


> Mika, can you repeat that? Not understanding what you're saying.
> 
> The D600 is dual entry, so something like the Vmoda boom pro (which works with single 3.5mm inputs on the headphone) won't work. You'll have to go the old route of using a standard external mic like the Antlion mod mic. Any headphone can become a headset, but you'll have to contend with another wire going from your headphone to your source.


I was curious if anyone has used the d600s. I believe their chord has a built in mic. But if I got a pair of ma900/all etc, I wasn't sure if they had mic u can get seperately, I've never used headphones for games b4.


----------



## Adynos

benbenkr said:


> Hi, I think I know your issue.
> 
> 
> The problem is that your E17 isn't making proper contact with the E09k. The E17 needs to sit straight up in order for it to make proper contact with the E09k's dock.
> ...




I can try doing what he did first by sticking the little rubber cover behind it, but he isn't really having the same problem. My device never disconnected like his did in the video. My device would still be listed in windows like it was connected properly. I will give it a shot later though


----------



## PippoXD

So, i've been searching around,
  
 Pro900 - 302 euros
 Mad Dogs - 291 euros
  
 I saw other reviews of the Monster DNA pro and they look pretty uncomfortable with that tight grip and not being flexible, plus i dont like how they look. They look like headphones for rappers to show off.
  
 Which one should i get? Do the prices make some difference? Because the Pro900 are being sold for something like 550USD - 400 euros, but on german amazon its 302 euros. The Mad Dogs are the 300 USD ones, but they incur in 30 dollar transport and 23% tax. I'm from Portugal.
  
 Reminder: they are for PC use, i still dont have a soundcard (but planning to buy one that matches the headphones i pick) and its for competitive gaming. They need to be closed.
  
 Thank you


----------



## Echoless

mad lust envy said:


> A fine starter (possibly end) would be the Fidelio X1 + Vmoda BoomPro.
> 
> I highly doubt that combo will disappoint many, especially first timers.
> 
> ...


 

 So you would recommend the X1? Hmm, seems to be almost identical in price to both the HD598 and Ma900.
  
 I was actually reading through the forums here, and the Sennheiser Momentum On Ear Headphones seem like the sort of cans I'd love to use. How would these fare as gaming headphones? And I've seen a few people stating that their sound is a bit more 'fun' than the 598's. What exactly do they mean when they say that? Sorry, I probably sound like an absolute idiot, but beyond a few threads that I've read here, I have literally no knowledge on this topic.


----------



## ivoltage

Hey Mad Lust,

I've just ordered the MA900 on the basis of your recommendations. This thread is an amazing resource. I can't thank you (and all the contributors) enough.

One question, though, about mic options for the MA900. I currently have the Zalman clip-on which I don't like much. Just wondering how straightforward (and advisable) it would be to do a detachable cable mod? I like the idea of the BoomPro's simplified cable management. I know The ModMic is an option but it means more cables.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks again


----------



## Euphonik

echoless said:


> So you would recommend the X1? Hmm, seems to be almost identical in price to both the HD598 and Ma900.
> 
> I was actually reading through the forums here, and the Sennheiser Momentum On Ear Headphones seem like the sort of cans I'd love to use. How would these fare as gaming headphones? And I've seen a few people stating that their sound is a bit more 'fun' than the 598's. What exactly do they mean when they say that? Sorry, I probably sound like an absolute idiot, but beyond a few threads that I've read here, I have literally no knowledge on this topic.


 
  
 IMO "fun" usually describes a sound that is colored(emphasized) in some way, usually in the bass region. I own the X1s and passed on the HD598s as the consensus is they're a bit light in the bass- this can be a good thing for gaming if a competitive advantage is more important than the "fun" factor. I'm quite happy with the X1s as they have more bass than my other open headphones(which is generally the tradeoff you make vs. closed cans).


----------



## TiTaN

I have tested the MA900, Q701 and X1 over the past 2 weeks or so as an upgrade to my AD700 and though each had their positives and negatives, I'd have to say the X1 was the overall victor.
  
 The Q701 seemed to yearn for more amplification than I could provide and forget about mixing in voice with the Astro Mixamp. I never felt like I could get a balance that worked well and the sound definitely seemed anemic, though powered through the DG on my PC it seemed a bit better in BF3/4.
  
 The MA900 is absolutely fantastic except I had to adjust them constantly and at least on my head/ears I never felt like I could get them positioned appropriately unless I pushed them well forward on my head so the tops of my ears were basically in the lip of the pads, which yielded a nice effect for gaming in terms of soundstage and spacing. I will likely revisit these, but the $250 price tag was a bit too much.
  
 The X1 have a lot of bass for an open can, more than I think I've ever heard short of my DT770s, and if I could tone down the bass with my original mixamp I think I might a bit, but it doesn't take anything away from the other positional cues needed for competitive BF3/4/CoD and the convenience of the 3.5mm port with my vmoda boom mic is hard to beat. I can simply leave that cable in my mixamp and unplug the headphones and use another cable at my PC or when listening to music. They also are killer for EDM which I've been listening to very heavily recently.
  
 Overall, musically they were all enjoyable in their own ways and I would probably keep all 3 if I had the money and wanted to put money into a good amp for the Q701, but the X1 are the best of the 3 for my purposes.


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> Razer Kraken Forged? That's one hell of a nice looking headphone. I say headphone because it comes with a detachable 3.5mm cable. Again though, it twists and locks, so not sure the BoomPro would work in this case, though it comes with an inline mic cable.


 
  
 I will admit it looks pretty cool, but it's probably your typical overpriced Razer flash with underwhelming function.


----------



## Lukalop

Contrary to popular belief, in many reviews I have heard that high end IEMs such as the JH13 can have a soundstage and imaging that rivals the HD800.

I am thinking of getting an IEM for gaming as the BA drivers used have immaculate detail and pinpoint accuracy from what I have heard when listening to music. 
Part if the reason for getting an IEM is because they are easy to drive and the isolation they provide. Does anyone know if this means then that they would be suitable for gaming?
All opinions are welcome.


----------



## Adynos

benbenkr said:


> Hi, I think I know your issue.
> 
> The problem is that your E17 isn't making proper contact with the E09k. The E17 needs to sit straight up in order for it to make proper contact with the E09k's dock.
> This issue can be fixed by removing the bump on the wall of the E09k's dock, and sticking a thicker piece of rubber to hold up the E17.
> ...


 
 So I tried putting the rubber piece behind it and it did not work.  However after taking the rubber out it been playing properly since then.  I have docked and undocked it a few times to see if it was a fluke and so far it has continued to play properly.  I will continue to monitor and test it but so far the issue seems to have been resolved.


----------



## pack21

I bought today an MA900 + Zalman Mic. 
  
  
 Can't wait to play BF4 with this set....want to listen the so called huge soundstage.


----------



## Murder Mike

pack21 said:


> I bought today an MA900 + Zalman Mic.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to play BF4 with this set....want to listen the so called huge soundstage.


 
 I'd suggest you look into a different mic. Those Zalman mics have poor quality control IMO and they only sound ok at best. MLE recently updated the front page with some mic options, so check it out. Even those cheap Neewer packs are better than the Zalman. I have a Labtec LVA-7330 and I have no complaints.


----------



## pack21

murder mike said:


> I'd suggest you look into a different mic. Those Zalman mics have poor quality control IMO and they only sound ok at best. MLE recently updated the front page with some mic options, so check it out. Even those cheap Neewer packs are better than the Zalman. I have a Labtec LVA-7330 and I have no complaints.


 
 yes, i'm wanting and will buy later the modmic V4.0 with mute.


----------



## martin vegas

Trying to stop my xbox live gold membership from renewing and taking the money off the credit card so I can get myself a ps4..with no joy whatsoever?


----------



## Adynos

adynos said:


> So I tried putting the rubber piece behind it and it did not work.  However after taking the rubber out it been playing properly since then.  I have docked and undocked it a few times to see if it was a fluke and so far it has continued to play properly.  I will continue to monitor and test it but so far the issue seems to have been resolved.


 
 After initial success, the problem persists.  It is hit and miss with docking the e17 to the e09k and getting continual functionality.  Too inconsistent so will probably end up returning the e09k.  
  
 On a positive note, I love the 990s that I got.  Any suggestions on a good closed back pair?  The quality of a good pair of headphones really amazed me and going from my 990s at home to normal cheap earbuds (which before now I thought sounded fine) was very saddening and I don't want to keep doing it!  So I guess maybe a pair that sounds similar to the 990s if that is possible?


----------



## pervysage

According to the Antlion Modmic blog, all models are in stock at a moment, so if you wanted to order one and have it ship out without having to wait, now would be the time.


----------



## JGOD

What's up guys. New to the thread. I game on ps4. I'm looking to upgrade my k701 to either hd800 or k812. I currently use headzone h1. Will the h1 be enough to power the hd800 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Headzone has a very high output impedance and the power specs aren't that impressive. I suggest attaching a good desktop amp to it. I'm jealous that you own one. I owned it briefly and loved it's dsp.


----------



## SaLX

MLE - perhaps stick chico's FAQ at the top and near your introductions? It's a damned good guide, but I bet most visitors will miss it stuck way down there. Just a wee suggestion


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The guide has a structure:

Intro
Headphones
Amps
Mics
Misc/FAQ/Notes/Etc

It just makes sense to me this way, as we're getting what this guide is about first.

If they don't bother to read the lists, which tells them where the FAQ is... well, they need to learn to read, and stop skimming.

Nevermind, I overestimate the intelligence of the mass population.

The FAQ has been moved to be the first section after the intro and index.


----------



## chicolom

You could also steal some common answers to questions from this page:
 http://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/15wunp/guide_dacs_and_amps/


----------



## SaLX

Always assume that the masses don't read books. Forgive the suggestion - best to get the FAQ out of the way so as to prep minds. That's how Lenin did it.


----------



## benbenkr

Aria, from Feenix. A new $350 head...phone, or set (since it comes with a lapel mic). I'm liking the wood design - http://www.feenixcollection.com/aria.html


----------



## Swordsman

chicolom said:


> You need to give more info.
> 
> Gaming and movies...on PC or on a console?  What's your current setup/source?  The CALs aren't hard to drive, so you either have a weak source or something is off.
> 
> The CALs are already bass-heavy, and an amp won't really increase the bass.


 
  
 hi
  
 on a PC.
  
 im using onboard audio.
  
 im using this motheboard.
  
 http://www.msi.com/product/mb/P55AGD55.html
  
*



Audio*
 
 • Chipset integrated by Realtek® ALC889
 - Flexible 8-channel audio with jack sensing
 - Compliant with Azalia 1.0 Spec
 - Meet Microsoft Vista Premium spec

  
 vol is soft, bass is not heavy (at least to me)
  
 playing marvel heroes, diablo 3 watching blu ray rip movies (mkv file)


----------



## chicolom

swordsman said:


> hi
> 
> on a PC.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I think that onboard audio should be enough to give the CALs decent volume, so unless you listen insanely loud I'd be inclined to say that something might be off (windows volume/game volume/media player volume/etc.) 
  
 Is the audio from the CALs soft on other sources besides your PC, or is ONLY your PC soft?


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> I am most definitely interested in seeing where these land in this guide.
> 
> Change, I was gone for a while late last year, but did you ever try out the 940? My impressions still hold true with that one.




Sorry I've been gone.

Nah, I ended up with the 840 because the 940 didn't seem like what I was wanting in a closed headphone. I heard the 1540 pads turn the 940 into some beasts, tho.

Axel, how do you fair gaming wise with your 1964 Q? After reading someone's inquiry on IEMs, I tried my SM64 and was very impressed. I'll be using them for gaming, now, until I get my K612 back.


----------



## Lukalop

Are IEMs good for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not pro-IEM. Part of the reason you get a huge sense of soundstage with over ear, is because the sound is literally coming from outside of you ear canal. With iems, everything is crammed into the small space between your ear drum and the iem. Ive owned quite a few IEMs in my time, and they have all sounded very in your head.

Now, you may get good imaging from an iem, but soundstage? I'm skeptical.

HOWEVER, that does NOT mean IEMs cant be good or even great for gaming. You can still get some wonderful positional cues, despite a lack of soundstage. Stuff like Dolby Headphone also boosts soundstage by design.

I'd love to try an IEM know for a huge soundstage. Just saying, I call BS on any IEM rivaling something like the HD800. I don't see how, but hey, I could be wrong.

I personally enjoyed the sound off the RE0 with the Mixamp. It was spacious, but not over ear spacious, but clean as anything I've heard.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not pro-IEM. Part of the reason you get a huge sense of soundstage with over ear, is because the sound is literally coming from outside of you ear canal. With iems, everything is crammed into the small space between your ear drum and the iem. Ive owned quite a few IEMs in my time, and they have all sounded very in your head.
> 
> Now, you may get good imaging from an iem, but soundstage? I'm skeptical.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree with this 110% from my own experience and scientifcally or objectively without the influence of your pinnae you'll never get a decent soundstage and imaging in comparison. HD 800 is miles away from a soundstage monster like the Stage Diver 3.


----------



## Lukalop

I understand, however in particular the JH13s have been said to have brilliant imaging and soundstage because of its new Freqphase technology. The reason I want an IEM for gaming is that I get isolation + portability and they don't look hideous IMO like some open headphones do.


----------



## Evshrug

If you seriously need isolation, IEMs seem like the clear choice when I think it through. I really only have experience with Shure and Etymotic models. I don't wear the olive-shaped eartips of Shures well, meanwhile Etymotic included several sizes of silicon and foam eartips which go a long way towards finding a long-term comfortable pair. Of course you can get custom molds, which should be awesome 

On IEM soundstage, I agree that there isn't space to create natural occurring soundstage. That said, also From personal experience (FPE? FPEx?), they can create very focused and pinpoint accurate imaging and reference flat FreqResponse, and there are a Lot less shape variables for a surround HTRF to account for with drivers in-ear, so soundstage could be processed into the sound well, and surround could work well with a broader range of individuals (if it takes in-ear driver positioning into account).

I just don't need the isolation of my ER•6i much anymore.


----------



## martin vegas

What do I need to get a ps4 online and play bf4, apart from the game and premium?


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, your Vomda mic review got some front page love.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I wish K812 had 3,5mm connectors instead of that Lemo thing. Could have been an amazing headset with that VMODA Boompro


----------



## Murder Mike

fegefeuer said:


> I wish K812 had 3,5mm connectors instead of that Lemo thing. Could have been an amazing headset with that VMODA Boompro


 
  
 Just for the sake of argument, if I had a pair of K812s, I would likely not be console gaming which means I could easily set up a nice boom mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, I didn't think such a short entry would warrant front page coverage, but I ain't complaining. 

I better start really doing some homework on what headphones are compatible with it...


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> I wish K812 had 3,5mm connectors instead of that Lemo thing. Could have been an amazing headset with that VMODA Boompro :mad:




An amazing $1500 headset, huh? lol


----------



## TiTaN

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, I didn't think such a short entry would warrant front page coverage, but I ain't complaining.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed! I have the X1 paired with mine but would be interested in other options too. Or maybe using an adapter of sorts for those with non-3.5mm removable cables also.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those headphones without removable cables are better off with the Antlion Modmic, though managing the extra cable will be up to how good your skills are at wire management. I don't possess any skills to hide wires, so not possible for me.


----------



## AverageGamer

mad lust envy said:


> Those headphones without removable cables are better off with the Antlion Modmic, though managing the extra cable will be up to how good your skills are at wire management. I don't possess any skills to hide wires, so not possible for me.


 
 I too have no wire management skillz. BUT for a better can, I would sacrifice the wire mess.
  
 BTW, I have narrowed my desired "CLOSED" headphone for both gaming and then music to the following:
  - DT990 Pro 32Ohm (assuming since I will only be using the Astro mixamp)
  - SoundMagic HP100
  
 Does anyone know if either of these cans will work with the Vmoda BoomPro mic?
  - Of the open headphone, will the Q701 or Fidelio X1 provide ANY isolation from outside noise?


----------



## Change is Good

The HP100 has a 3.5 mm entry... but the jack entry, itself, is a bit weird. It may or may not fit...


----------



## GrayRaven

Regarding mad dog's compatibility with the Boompro.
  
 The phone socket comes from the side.

 Wouldn't the strait angled boopro look and feel strange coming from the side?, not to mention the constant cable strain.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DT990 Pro is fully open.

As for the Mad Dog... sure it will look a little weird coming out from the side, but the mic placement shouldn't be an issue, and it's flexible.


----------



## Change is Good

Think it will fit the HP100?
  

  
 Here is the stock cable... 
  

  
 It has a locking mechanism... but if the cable fits, it will click in like any other cable entry. The BoomPro may be able to fit inside the housing, from what I see...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I assume it's like the T50RP. I believe that has a locking mechanism, but you can still use most standard cables. Correct me if wrong.

The BoomPro's barrel is skinny up to the mic part...




It'd be nice to test all this out...which is why I can't confirm any twist lock entry headphones...

The Mad Dog comes with a Vmoda cable, which is why I know it will work.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> An amazing $1500 headset, huh? lol


 
  
 Only for the moment where I would need voice.


----------



## TiTaN

mad lust envy said:


> Those headphones without removable cables are better off with the Antlion Modmic, though managing the extra cable will be up to how good your skills are at wire management. I don't possess any skills to hide wires, so not possible for me.


 
 Yeah, I use the Modmic with my AD700s and with the MA900 and Q701 I tested out, I was meaning the few headphones that have a 2.5mm removable cable or some other type of plug rather than 3.5.


----------



## AxelCloris

Once my camera battery charges a little I'll get a photo of the BoomPro on the Mad Dogs. It's not a bad combo, and I've used them together on multiple occasions.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Once my camera battery charges a little I'll get a photo of the BoomPro on the Mad Dogs. It's not a bad combo, and I've used them together on multiple occasions.




Don't know if you saw my post from last night... but how are those 1964 Qs working for you? You ever use them for gaming?

I tried my SM64 last night, and (like others mentioned) while IEMs aren't the ideal choice due to lack of soundstage... I was very impressed due to its superb imaging and separation... and above average soundstage for an IEM. And the isolation is unmatched... for those who REALLY need isolation while gaming.

I did have to use westone silicon tips, however, because my complys made them too warm, bassy, and congested for gaming.

As I mentioned, I'll be using them for gaming until my K612 gets back. Not a knock on the 1540... these just have the slightly more forward mids and slightly leaner bass that are needed for my competitive binges (when using the silicon tips).


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Don't know if you saw my post from last night... but how are those 1964 Qs working for you? You ever use them for gaming?


 
  
 I guess I did miss this from last night, yeah. I've used the 1964Q for gaming on multiple occasions. They're the best IEMs that I've used in gaming experiments. That said, they'll set you back $550. The soundstage on them can't compare to more budget friendly full size or on-ear headphones. The CIEM that are known to have the largest soundstages are in the $900-1500 range.
  
 A good place to look for IEM that could game well is in Chico's Soundstage Head Club.
  

  
 Here's a quick and dirty photo for you guys. It's only slightly awkward and works quite well with the Mad Dogs.


----------



## avens

Considering the HD800 references on the OP and on this thread, it'd be quite nice of you that you review them.
  
 When doing so please bear in mind that they require a solid amp to work properly, considerably above the mixamp.


----------



## Hawkinsman07

I picked this mic up after I snatched up that ridiculous Philips X1 deal on amazon. Then I ruined my savings by getting a mix amp for my PS4. Either way, the mic is excellent and the headphone works great with it. I've used the headphone pair for Skype, projects, even talking on the phone. Sounds excellent for my BF4 nights.


----------



## Gobhal

A lot of great info here 
  
 I was actually just looking at the BoomPro a few days ago but could not find if it works with my Sennheiser HD 598's. Does anyone know if it will work? I mean as long as the connection fits then the locking mechanism wont matter I assume. Question is does the connector even fit?
  
 Thanks guys!


----------



## Murder Mike

avens said:


> Considering the HD800 references on the OP and on this thread, it'd be quite nice of you that you review them.
> 
> When doing so please bear in mind that they require a solid amp to work properly, considerably above the mixamp.


 
  
 I'm sure MLE will get right on it after you send him a pair with an appropriate amp.


----------



## JGOD

I use headzone as my Dolby decoder. What amp would you recommend with the h1?


----------



## JGOD

If I was to purchase hd800


----------



## JGOD

MLE..thanks for the reply. Your description of the headzone is dead on. What amp would you recommend if I did get the hd800?


----------



## Murder Mike

jgod said:


> MLE..thanks for the reply. Your description of the headzone is dead on. What amp would you recommend if I did get the hd800?


 
This thread has a lot of good information in the TC and you can always ask if you have any questions after that. I'm sure most of us here haven't owned, much less heard a HD800 for an extensive amount of time.


----------



## JGOD

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I could only dream of reviewing the HD800, lol. I hear the Vali actually sounded real good with it, for a budget choice.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> I could only dream of reviewing the HD800, lol. I hear the Vali actually sounded real good with it, for a budget choice.


 
 I just ordered mine. Give me a month or so with it and, if you're interested, I'll send it your way with an amp for review. It'd be interesting to see how they'll stack up in a gaming situation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Once I'm done with:

DNA On Ear, Astro A30, Ultrasone HS-15 (thanks Calpis!) I'll consider reviewing something else, lol. Let me first get through all this... :'(


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Once I'm done with:
> 
> DNA On Ear, Astro A30, Ultrasone HS-15 (thanks Calpis!) I'll consider reviewing something else, lol. Let me first get through all this... :'(


 
  
 Don't forget my HE-400i, price depending of course. Or I may splurge on myself and get the 560, still undecided. Longer wait for the 400i.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Isnt it like a $400 difference? Hard pill to swallow.


----------



## deciBel23

Can anyone confirm if the ATH-M50's work with the BoomPro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The original M50, no. Cable isn't detachable. M50x, the cabke is removable, but apparently someone asked Audio Technica directly, and they said the proprietary twist lock input wouldn't work. So I'll say, probably not.


----------



## rc10mike

How does the BoomPro compare to this?
  
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_71111_Beyerdynamic-Custom-One-Pro-Headset-Gear-Detachable-Gooseneck-Microphone.html


----------



## SaLX

It's fat at the jack. I doubt it would fit the X1 for instance (the cup/mounting would get in the way). I'd bet it's a quality mic though (maybe the same as on the Beyer 300), but be careful.
  
 I asked them about this and they say it's <1 ohm so no resistance worries.


----------



## calpis

rc10mike said:


> How does the BoomPro compare to this?
> 
> http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_71111_Beyerdynamic-Custom-One-Pro-Headset-Gear-Detachable-Gooseneck-Microphone.html


 
  
 The plastic/rubber enclosure around the input plug that goes into the headphone looks chunkier than the Boompro. That'll limit the amount of compatible headphones that'd be able to use it, especially ones with recessed input jacks or locking mechanisms.


----------



## chicolom

I've got this boom mic from Radioshack. 
  
 It seems to fit just fine into the X1 and the boom ends up in the right spot.  I haven't actually tested the mic portion of it yet though


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Twice as expensive, less likely to fit many headphones compared to the BoomPro... hmm, I'll take my chances with the BoomPro, though the Beyer one looks legit.

Nice find, Chico. If I didnt have the Boompro, I'd easily try that one, though I like that the Vmoda cable is practically indestructible.


----------



## prankies

chicolom said:


> I've got this boom mic from Radioshack.
> 
> It seems to fit just fine into the X1 and the boom ends up in the right spot.  I haven't actually tested the mic portion of it yet though


 
 Please let me know how it works out, that seems like an awesome cheap alternative to the BoomPro.  I always worry about the longevity of any cable with a volume slider (fraying seems inevitable), so I'm hesitant to drop $30, but I could easily stomach $8 if the quality is comparable to my cheap Zalman.


----------



## benbenkr

prankies said:


> Please let me know how it works out, that seems like an awesome cheap alternative to the BoomPro.  I always worry about the longevity of any cable with a volume slider (fraying seems inevitable), so I'm hesitant to drop $30, but I could easily stomach $8 if the quality is comparable to my cheap Zalman.


 
  
 It's better than the Zalman clip-on. But problem with the Auvio is the built quality... that in-line volume controller, ugh. But hey, $8 right?


----------



## Fegefeuer

jgod said:


> If I was to purchase hd800


 
  
 Matrix M-Stage. Best entry level amp I heard with the HD 800. Very popular in Germany.


----------



## deciBel23

mad lust envy said:


> The original M50, no. Cable isn't detachable. M50x, the cabke is removable, but apparently someone asked Audio Technica directly, and they said the proprietary twist lock input wouldn't work. So I'll say, probably not.



Okay, thanks. I was half asleep when I wrote that, so I was really talking about the M50's with the detachable cable, haha.


----------



## bjammin71

Hi all.  I currently have the AD700 and Antlion Modmic 1.0 setup, and game on the Xbox One.  The extra cable of the modmic and the length of the AD700's cable will be a nusaince with the upcoming Xbox One's headset  adapter.  I will have two 9' cables running from the headphones to the controller.  Herein lies my dilemna:
  
 Is is cost-effective to modify the AD700 so that the cable is detachable (allowing my to use the BoomMic Pro)?  If it is cost-effective, who does such mods?  I am in the US.
 Would I be better off to just buy the Fidelio X1 than to spend money modding the AD700?
  
 Perhaps off topic or better mentioned elsewhere, but I am concerned that the audio quality running through a wireless gaming controller will be poor.  However the Xbox One's digital out is "stereo only" and my Denon AVR can't extract audio from HDMI and convert to a digital output.  I don't know of any alternative to relying on the controller other than a purchase something to extract audio from an HDMI cable and output in digital form.  Any I missing something?


----------



## JGOD

fegefeuer said:


> Matrix M-Stage. Best entry level amp I heard with the HD 800. Very popular in Germany.


thanks fegefeuer


----------



## AvroArrow

decibel23 said:


> Okay, thanks. I was half asleep when I wrote that, so I was really talking about the M50's with the detachable cable, haha.


 
  
 Actually, if you bought one of the pre-detachable cable modded older M50's from soundprofessionals.com then the BoomPro would work with it.
  
  


bjammin71 said:


> Is is cost-effective to modify the AD700 so that the cable is detachable (allowing my to use the BoomMic Pro)?  If it is cost-effective, who does such mods?  I am in the US.
> Would I be better off to just buy the Fidelio X1 than to spend money modding the AD700?


 
  
 You mean like this?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-2-20-2014-boompro-list-chicoloms-faq-added/16470#post_9777946


----------



## bjammin71

avroarrow said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-2-20-2014-boompro-list-chicoloms-faq-added/16470#post_9777946


 
  
 Indeed, that is a picture of what I am considering.  I have watched videos of the modification process and don't trust my skills enough to do it myself.  Can someone recommend a person/shop to do the modification?


----------



## JGOD

mad lust envy said:


> I could only dream of reviewing the HD800, lol. I hear the Vali actually sounded real good with it, for a budget choice.


 

Thanks. When you used the headZone, what did you set roomsize and ambiance to?


----------



## JHex2

Hi all, 
  
 Thank you Mad Lust Envy for writing this guide. I had gone to Best Buy to get a gaming headset for Titanfall on Xbox One, and cringed when I checked out their "top of the line" turtle beach and astro sets sets. I knew there had to be a better way, and you provided it. 
  
 So here's what I was planning on doing. I got a Turtle Beach DSS (original version), and a Modmic. 
  
 Audio - Xbox One > Optical DSS > Headphones
 Voice Modmic > 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter > Xbox One Chat Adapter > Xbox One Controller
  
 The only unknown right now is headphones. I have a few choices, because I am ridiculous.
  
 Audio Technica EW9 clipons
 Beyerdynamic T50p
 Beyerdynamic T70
 Beyerdynamic T1
 Audio Technica ATH-W11r
  
 Which one should I use? I'm more interested in competitiveness, then fun, then comfort. I feel like the T1 and T70 would be hard to drive. 
  
 Any ideas on which headphones I should choose would be much appreciated. Thanks!
  
 Prepare for Titanfall!


----------



## roguegeek

jhex2 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thank you Mad Lust Envy for writing this guide. I had gone to Best Buy to get a gaming headset for Titanfall on Xbox One, and cringed when I checked out their "top of the line" turtle beach and astro sets sets. I knew there had to be a better way, and you provided it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You have some pretty high priced options on there. Is this strictly for gaming on an Xbox One or are their plans beyond that? If so, what are they?


----------



## JHex2

This is for gaming on my Xbox One. Those are my surplus headphones.
  
 My home setup is CAPS Media Server > Audio-Gd Master 7 > Audio-Gd Master 6 > LCD-2 R1s
 My work setup is RWAK100-S > Apex Glacier > Edition 8s
  
 I'm pretty much played out on those setups, and want to put my headphones that are just lying around to good use, before I buy anymore.


----------



## NamelessPFG

bjammin71 said:


> Perhaps off topic or better mentioned elsewhere, but I am concerned that the audio quality running through a wireless gaming controller will be poor.  However the Xbox One's digital out is "stereo only" and my Denon AVR can't extract audio from HDMI and convert to a digital output.  I don't know of any alternative to relying on the controller other than a purchase something to extract audio from an HDMI cable and output in digital form.  Any I missing something?


 
  
 Why would you want to take the HDMI audio path and cram that into S/PDIF to output to another DAC instead of just directly working with the HDMI audio signal?
  
 In other words, what you really want is a headphone surround processor that has HDMI. Unfortunately, your wallet isn't going to like the choices:
  

Replace your Denon AVR with a different AVR that has built-in Dolby Headphone mixing and HDMI inputs, like some older triple-digit Harmon/Kardon models and the Marantz SR5001/SR5002.
Pay up the big bucks for a Smyth Realiser A8, which accepts LPCM over HDMI.
  
 I'm still wishing that the console surround processor manufacturers would wise up and make their devices with HDMI inputs and passthroughs for the video. There's no other way to get a discrete-channel surround sound signal out of the Wii U, and I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and Xbox One are the last consoles of their lineups to bear S/PDIF outputs.


----------



## bjammin71

namelesspfg said:


> Why would you want to take the HDMI audio path and cram that into S/PDIF to output to another DAC instead of just directly working with the HDMI audio signal?
> 
> In other words, what you really want is a headphone surround processor that has HDMI. Unfortunately, *your wallet isn't going to like the choices:*
> 
> ...


 
  
 Somehow, I knew my wallet wouldn't be happy!  My Denon 1909 doesn't have Dolby Headphone, but has Denon's version.  (don't know what they call it, nor do I know how well it compares to actual Dolby Headphone.)  I currently run my AD700s through the headphone jack, but all chat functionality is lost.
  
 Sorry to stray from headphone discussion.  Trying to figure out a fully functional, acoustically acceptable, console gaming setup shouldn't be so tough!


----------



## motorwayne

Seriously...All this boom mic talk is just no good...I've gamed for donkeys years since 1978 when the first space invaders machines came out and I've tried and tried to get a great mic setup throught a soundcard with various sound cards ZXR XFi STX blar blar blar and pre that even.
  
 Guess what fixed it all?
  
 I silly Logitech webcam...out of the way, not plugged into a card..NOT BUZZING..not having my mates say "sounds like you're talking in the toilet".. I now have a Logitech HD C270 doing hte voice and it is CRYSTAL CLEAR from 3 feet away, it sits on my second screen out. of the way.
  
 Just sayin...do yourselves a favour..get one of these puppies..even if you don;t need the webcam (which I don't)
  
 Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure a lot us game from couches/beds from on our big screens. Unless the webcam can pick up JUST voice from 9 feet away... I doubt that would be a viable solution.

Not to mention being able abke to control volume and mute the mic at any given moment.

Also, fwih, the new Kinect is used a lot for the Xbox One for voice chat, and everyone is in agreement that it's a horrible solution and is a quick way to get muted.


----------



## rc10mike

bjammin71 said:


> Somehow, I knew my wallet wouldn't be happy!  My Denon 1909 doesn't have Dolby Headphone, but has Denon's version.  (don't know what they call it, nor do I know how well it compares to actual Dolby Headphone.)  I currently run my AD700s through the headphone jack, but all chat functionality is lost.
> 
> Sorry to stray from headphone discussion.  Trying to figure out a fully functional, acoustically acceptable, console gaming setup shouldn't be so tough!


 

 If is says "Dolby Headphone" then it will sound the same no matter what device its used on (technically). Its a Licensed technology from Dolby.
  
 That being said, theres a lot of AVRs that have Dolby Headphone built in to the headphone jack. Denon being one of them. Another is Marantz. Yamaha has their own version called "Silent Cinema"
  
 If you search around, you can find them. I have an older Marantz SR6005 that has Dolby Headphone and accepts 7.1 LPCM via HDMI. Picked it up pretty cheap since its discontinued.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Harman Kardon as well. But like Marantz, and Denon, it's only on the older models.

Can someone please upload some gameplay with Silent Cinema.


----------



## rc10mike

Recently I did some research on current home theater receivers that have Dolby Headphone. To my surprise I found them, but I cant remember the brand. They're still out there..somewhere.


----------



## haxfar

Have come to a point where I'll either go with a DT 770 pro 32ohm with Zalman mic or a MMX 300, but i'm curious how the Zalman mic performs in blocking out ambient noise, as the 770 + mic is the afaik the better performer for price. 
  
  
 Forgot to mention that the mmx 300 can be had for 220-255 €.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm... doesn't the Beyer Custom One Pro come with a detachable cable? That's another possibility for a decent closed headset.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, and it is also offered with beyerdynamic's very own detachable mic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OOOOOH... I forgot they had that one. What is wrong with me, that was posted yesterday. 

Still, I guess it's still more logical to use Vmodas, since it's cheaper and more likely to fit other headphones.


----------



## haxfar

Sadly can't find the V-moda mic in either the german or british amazon and any danish store.
  
 So far the custom pro looks really interesting with its mic, sadly can't find any reviews and the like that tells how fit they are for gaming plus the mention of lots of bass scares me slightly in regards to drowning out details (Not looking for AD700 detail level, just something better than  an Logitech G35).
  
 Price comparison if it might influence recommendation:
 COP+mic: 210€
 MMX 300: 255€ ("as new" for 221€)
 DT770Pro/32Ohm
  
 I'm planning to get the Xonar DGX with it, though I doubt that would change much.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How About
  
 http://www.kopfhoererliebe.de/v-moda-boompro-microphone-cable-inkl-y-adapter-black.html
  
 here you can see the shipping costs to destinations outside of Germany
  
 http://www.kopfhoererliebe.de/versand


----------



## haxfar

I think I'll decide against the COP based on livngston's comment: http://www.head-fi.org/t/604570/beyerdynamic-custom-ones-new-beyer-headphones/135#post_8699697
  


> To me, the DT770 when properly amplified had much more presence than the Custom One Pro. The mids sounded less recessed while still providing as much bass as the Custom One Pro even at the fourth slider setting. The DT770 Pro 80 is definitely bass heavy, but it did not seem to overpower the mids like the Custom One Pro.
> I also use the headphones for gaming and found the DT770 provided a wider soundstage (IMO) than the Custom One Pro, making it better suited for virtual surround using Dolby Headphone output.


----------



## Evshrug

avens said:


> Considering the HD800 references on the OP and on this thread, it'd be quite nice of you that you review them.
> 
> When doing so please bear in mind that they require a solid amp to work properly, considerably above the mixamp.



Please bear in some info that you probably didn't know... Mad recently put his last full-sized headphone (a pair of MA900) to help cover the cost of moving to a cheaper apartment, since one of his roommates had failed to cough up rent money.

I'm confident that, someday, he will hear them, and he'll want to tell us. Meanwhile there are many other Hd800 reviews out there that give a good idea about the sound... Fantastic, but probably overkill for the audio quality in games.




mad lust envy said:


> Harman Kardon as well. But like Marantz, and Denon, it's only on the older models.
> 
> Can someone please upload some gameplay with Silent Cinema.



I don't know how to capture accompanying video, and a trip through an ADC would degrade soundstage, but I'm telling you it's very similar to Dolby Headphone. I haven't heard it in a while, but rear positioning echo may be more noticeable... I fiddled but never figured out how to get rid of it entirely.

On a related note, I will be able to listen to it to my hearts content, and have all my gear set up and all my games on display BECAUSE!!!!! I finally got a new place! Will be making many little trips, it's hard to know what to move first.


----------



## damstr

I have a question about the Xbox One chat adapter. I have a hacked one with a 2.5mm cable coming out of it. I was planning on plugging it into my Mixamp but when I do the chat volume is extremely low and I can barely hear people. I have to turn the game volume down just to hear people.
  
 Now what I was wondering is if I could somehow plug my 2.3 Mod mic directly into the chat adapter sort of how like you can do with the official chat adapter coming out in a couple days?
  
 The only problem is that my mic male end is a 3.5mm and the one on the chat adapter is a 2.5mm adapter. I've been looking for a 2.5mm 3.5mm female to female adapter but they just don't seem to make them unless I'm missing something. Anyone know if that will work?
  
 I figure if I can take the Mixamp out of the chat setup I should be good but I just can't figure out how to connect the 2.5 male to the 3.5 male.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Hi guys, I hope I get some good advice here =). Let's say it, I need the "best headphones" (I know this word doesn't exist in therms of audio, but...) that I can get for competitive first person shooter gaming sessions that also MUST fit a rock lover requirements for a outstanding eargasm. As I'm a starter, my budget for the HP is something like $250 (the less, the better). The HP will be paired with a Creative Soundblaster Z as I need a good 3D view of my enemies/mates location and, IF needed, a Schiit Magni Amplifier can be also put in the cart (you can also make your point here). Maybe I use it on my guitar amp too. I'm gonna use it for something like 8h/day at the vacations, so it needs to be very comfortable and pleasant (my Porta Pro bends my hair almost permanently and this makes me very, very angry). I'm not going to say the music-to-gaming using time ratio because I really think I need something good at both, but if you want cut anything out, I prefer the music quality over the gaming (not too much). Said that statements and after read this Guide, I think these are my options: *AKG Q701 *vs *Beyerdynamic DT880 *vs *Beyerdynamic DT990 *vs *Philips Fidelio X1 *vs *Sony MA900 *vs *HiFiMAN HE-400*. What do you think? If I forgot anything that can make your recommendation easier just tell me and I will add it. A little help from the thread starter would be also very appreciated. Thanks in advance to all you and sorry for any English Grammar murdering,
  
 Lucas Bezerra.


----------



## JGOD

lucas bezerra said:


> Hi guys, I hope I get some good advice here =). Let's say it, I need the "best headphones" (I know this word doesn't exist in therms of audio, but...) that I can get for competitive first person shooter gaming sessions that also MUST fit a rock lover requirements for a outstanding eargasm. As I'm a starter, my budget for the HP is something like $250 (the less, the better). The HP will be paired with a Creative Soundblaster Z as I need a good 3D view of my enemies/mates location and, IF needed, a Schiit Magni Amplifier can be also put in the cart (you can also make your point here). Maybe I use it on my guitar amp too. I'm gonna use it for something like 8h/day at the vacations, so it needs to be very comfortable and pleasant (my Porta Pro bends my hair almost permanently and this makes me very, very angry). I'm not going to say the music-to-gaming using time ratio because I really think I need something good at both, but if you want cut anything out, I prefer the music quality over the gaming (not too much). Said that statements and after read this Guide, I think these are my options: *AKG Q701* vs *Beyerdynamic DT880* vs *Beyerdynamic DT990* vs *Philips Fidelio X1* vs *Sony MA900* vs *HiFiMAN HE-400*. What do you think? If I forgot anything that can make your recommendation easier just tell me and I will add it. A little help from the thread starter would be also very appreciated. Thanks in advance to all you and sorry for any English Grammar murdering,
> 
> Lucas Bezerra.



I like the 701. Great positional accuracy.


----------



## Naingolann

chicolom said:


> I've got this boom mic from Radioshack.
> 
> It seems to fit just fine into the X1 and the boom ends up in the right spot.  I haven't actually tested the mic portion of it yet though


 
 Chico, does it work with the DSS too?


----------



## Mackem

Anyone know if the V-Moda BoomPro will work with the M-Audio Q40 headphones? I currently use the V-Moda Audio Only cable with them and it fits like a glove and works fine if that's any help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the Vmoda cable works, so will the Boom Pro. I guess I can add them to the list if so.


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> I'm confident that, someday, he will hear them, and he'll want to tell us. Meanwhile there are many other Hd800 reviews out there that give a good idea about the sound... Fantastic, but probably overkill for the audio quality in games.


 
  
 To get one for gaming only is overkill indeed but it can't get better than HD 800, K812, several Stax, TH-900 and T1 for gaming or let's say everybody will notice their technical superiority when comparing to good recommendations like the X1, K712 Pro. The only question is if it's worth the upgrade price.
  
 Games like BF4 on PC sound and immerse very very good and are very much worth it (forget about CMSS-3D on HD800/K812/T1) , not so much for last gen over Mixamp or older PC titles that sound bad today (Bioshock, MTW2 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Samples get better by the day so in the end I'd choose one high end phone over a 2-3 mid tier collection any day.


----------



## Mackem

mad lust envy said:


> If the Vmoda cable works, so will the Boom Pro. I guess I can add them to the list if so.


 
 Alright. Yeah, I just tried; both ends of the Audio Only cable fit the Q40s (The straight end of the cable and the kind of angled jack as well).


----------



## JGOD

fegefeuer said:


> To get one for gaming only is overkill indeed but it can't get better than HD 800, K812, several Stax, TH-900 and T1 for gaming or let's say everybody will notice their technical superiority when comparing to good recommendations like the X1, K712 Pro. The only question is if it's worth the upgrade price.
> 
> Games like BF4 on PC sound and immerse very very good and are very much worth it (forget about CMSS-3D on HD800/K812/T1) , not so much for last gen over Mixamp or older PC titles that sound bad today (Bioshock, MTW2  ). Samples get better by the day so in the end I'd choose one high end phone over a 2-3 mid tier collection any day.



I agree. I'm waiting on my tax return and I'm getting the hd800 . Ill be set for years to come.


----------



## rc10mike

damstr said:


> I have a question about the Xbox One chat adapter. I have a hacked one with a 2.5mm cable coming out of it. I was planning on plugging it into my Mixamp but when I do the chat volume is extremely low and I can barely hear people. I have to turn the game volume down just to hear people.
> 
> Now what I was wondering is if I could somehow plug my 2.3 Mod mic directly into the chat adapter sort of how like you can do with the official chat adapter coming out in a couple days?
> 
> ...


 

 First one on this page Is what you're looking for:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=120&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042909
  
 EDIT: I just re-read what you're looking...dont know if that exists..
  
 Dont know if it will actually work though...something tells me you will be able to talk but not able to hear others.


----------



## damstr

rc10mike said:


> First one on this page Is what you're looking for:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Category?c_id=120&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042909
> 
> EDIT: I just re-read what you're looking...dont know if that exists..
> ...



Seeing how hard if is to find the female to female cable I'm looking for I'm going to say it probably won't work although I don't know why. 

Oh well I get the official adapter this week and I can plug my mic directly into the chat adapter. 

You think that will work talking and being able to hear people still through my headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure what you want, but female to female tends to be called 'coupler'.


----------



## 3X0

Man, the positional audio of BF4 is fantastic relative to the sloppy mess that was stock BF3. You no longer need DH or CMSS-3D or any DSP really to get plug-and-play imaging with your favorite setup.
  
 Might as well toss the Xonar U3 now.
  
 I'll eat every post I stated earlier in this thread dogging on stats -- I've been there and back and there really isn't anything better than electrostatics as far as gaming is concerned (or music, but that's an entirely different discussion).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So you're going to toss the U3 because BF4 is the only game you'll ever play? Ok.


----------



## 3X0

Nah, seems like modern games are moving to better sound positioning within the stereo mix in general.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure, there's gonna be plenty of games without it. (Not that I've heard BF4's in game mixing). If anyone is willing to record BF4 with it's inherent 'good surround', I'd love to hear it, to see how well it does against DH and THX TS.

If there's one thing I don't like, is hearing a headphone sound like a headphone with tiny positional cues without the virtual landscape of virtual dsps like DH. People seem to forget DH is mimicking a room, not a headphone trying to be surround.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure, there's gonna be plenty of games without it. (Not that I've heard BF4's in game mixing). If anyone is willing to record BF4 with it's inherent 'good surround', I'd love to hear it, to see how well it does against DH and THX TS.
> 
> If there's one thing I don't like, is hearing a headphone sound like a headphone with tiny positional cues without the virtual landscape of virtual dsps like DH. People seem to forget DH is mimicking a room, not a headphone trying to be surround.




The post he makes is absurd. Using plug and play, only, with BF4 is NOT surround (sounds like plain stereo to me)... and is peanuts when compared to the massive surround sound of DH or other processors. 

But hey, let em toss his U3. Nobody's stopping him.


----------



## dakanao

Hey guys, does this graph shows a recessed lower midrange? 
  

  
 Because I'm feeling that my current headphones have recessed male vocals.


----------



## chicolom

naingolann said:


> Chico, does it work with the DSS too?


 
  
 The mic won't work with the DSS for the same reason most mics won't work with it; The DSS only supports USB headset mics.  The Auvio mic terminates into two 3.5mm jacks (audio and mic).


----------



## chicolom

3x0 said:


> Man, the positional audio of BF4 is fantastic relative to the sloppy mess that was stock BF3. You no longer need DH or CMSS-3D or any DSP really to get plug-and-play imaging with your favorite setup.
> 
> *Might as well toss the Xonar U3 now.*


 
  
  
 Toss it towards me please


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> Hey guys, does this graph shows a recessed lower midrange?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's one hell of a dip at 1khz. Yes, the midrange is lower than the bass and treble. IIRC, upper bass turns to midrange after 300hz or so, which is when that graph starts dipping. At 1khz, it starts it's gradual climb towards treble, where it peaks. Everything between the upper bass and treble is dipping to the 1khz mark.


----------



## 3X0

change is good said:


> The post he makes is absurd. Using plug and play, only, with BF4 is NOT surround (sounds like plain stereo to me)... and is peanuts when compared to the massive surround sound of DH or other processors.
> 
> But hey, let em toss his U3. Nobody's stopping him.


 
 Never made the pretense of surround. It's a really good stereo mix compared against BF3.
  
 Not sure how it compares to BL2 but that's my other good reference point. You don't need DH or CMSS-3D to get superb imaging from that game, despite the stereo mix.
  
 If you compare the three games BF3 is the only one that sounds purely L/R with no center or spatial cues and needs a DSP to be half-decent. I wouldn't be surprised if BF3 was a step back compared to BFBC2, but I'm too lazy to fire that one up.
  
 Of course if you're using headphones with garbage imaging to begin with it won't help much.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

jgod said:


> I like the 701. Great positional accuracy.


 
 But how it does in music? I know I can't go wrong with it, but should anyone of the others I've said do a better job?


----------



## Change is Good

lucas bezerra said:


> But how it does in music? I know I can't go wrong with it, but should anyone of the others I've said do a better job?


 
  
 Depends on what music genres you listen to... and what your sound preferences are...


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

change is good said:


> Depends on what music genres you listen to... and what your sound preferences are...


 
 As I said here:


lucas bezerra said:


> Hi guys, I hope I get some good advice here =). Let's say it, I need the "best headphones" (I know this word doesn't exist in therms of audio, but...) that I can get for competitive first person shooter gaming sessions that also MUST fit a rock lover requirements for a outstanding eargasm. As I'm a starter, my budget for the HP is something like $250 (the less, the better). The HP will be paired with a Creative Soundblaster Z as I need a good 3D view of my enemies/mates location and, IF needed, a Schiit Magni Amplifier can be also put in the cart (you can also make your point here). Maybe I use it on my guitar amp too. I'm gonna use it for something like 8h/day at the vacations, so it needs to be very comfortable and pleasant (my Porta Pro bends my hair almost permanently and this makes me very, very angry). I'm not going to say the music-to-gaming using time ratio because I really think I need something good at both, but if you want cut anything out, I prefer the music quality over the gaming (not too much). Said that statements and after read this Guide, I think these are my options: *AKG Q701 *vs *Beyerdynamic DT880 *vs *Beyerdynamic DT990 *vs *Philips Fidelio X1 *vs *Sony MA900 *vs *HiFiMAN HE-400*. What do you think? If I forgot anything that can make your recommendation easier just tell me and I will add it. A little help from the thread starter would be also very appreciated. Thanks in advance to all you and sorry for any English Grammar murdering,
> 
> Lucas Bezerra.


 
 I want a good HP for competitive FPS games and music. I almost only like rock and, as I said above, and want the most outstanding experience possible with it (understand rock as The Black Keys, RHCP, The Offspring, Arctic Monkeys, Foo Fighters... these kinds). I'm in a really bad doubt here...


----------



## JHex2

Would a DSS original version be enough to drive my ATH-W11R if I were to use them together? Or would I need an amp? Impedance is only 48 ohms. Pretty excited about it.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> That's one hell of a dip at 1khz. Yes, the midrange is lower than the bass and treble. IIRC, upper bass turns to midrange after 300hz or so, which is when that graph starts dipping. At 1khz, it starts it's gradual climb towards treble, where it peaks. Everything between the upper bass and treble is dipping to the 1khz mark.


 
 I see. I think the K540's have insane clarity and timbre for their price, even more clarity and slightly better timbre than the Shure SRH-840's, which is way more expensive. The only thing that's really bothering me is that the vocals sound pushed back.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> The post he makes is absurd. Using plug and play, only, with BF4 is NOT surround (sounds like plain stereo to me)... and is peanuts when compared to the massive surround sound of DH or other processors.
> 
> But hey, let em toss his U3. Nobody's stopping him.


 
  
 I agree. Headphone "Surround" is decent but it's no way positionally (or simple panning) as good as SBX/DH/CMSS.


----------



## JGOD

lucas bezerra said:


> But how it does in music? I know I can't go wrong with it, but should anyone of the others I've said do a better job?



I originally used the k701 with the mixamp and it had no bass what so ever. Now I use with the headzone and h1 gives it surprisingly good bass. The sounds of explosions are night and day. So I think it would be good for music with the right amp.


----------



## roguegeek

3x0 said:


> Never made the pretense of surround. It's a really good stereo mix compared against BF3.
> 
> Not sure how it compares to BL2 but that's my other good reference point. You don't need DH or CMSS-3D to get superb imaging from that game, despite the stereo mix.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you sure you've played these games? BFBC2 was garbage with directional accuracy. BF3 was a _huge_ step up and BF4 is just as good.


----------



## 3X0

roguegeek said:


> Are you sure you've played these games? BFBC2 was garbage with directional accuracy. BF3 was a _huge_ step up and BF4 is just as good.


 
 Don't remember enough about BFBC2. I know that BF3 is terrible with directional sound (DSP is basically necessary), and BF4 is not.


----------



## Mackem

mad lust envy said:


> If the Vmoda cable works, so will the Boom Pro. I guess I can add them to the list if so.


 
 Do you happen to have any idea what the BoomPro would be like in regards to noise cancelling? I share a room and my current condenser mic picks up absolutely everything and was looking at the BoomPro hoping that it would cancel out my roommates voice as well as the various other noises in the house.


----------



## Evshrug

Makem,
It doesn't have noise-cancellation circuitry, however it is mostly directional so you can angle it to mostly pick up sound from your mouth.


----------



## FruityGayGuy

Hi guys, I don't know if this would be the right place to mention this, but I just tried a mod that I would recommend for people with the AD 700 headphones.
  
 As I would imagine, this headphone would cause some people discomfort after an hour due to the thin pads. This happened to me as well, so I tried to switch the pads out. The pads are thin and rather awkwardly shaped, so I had to look for pads that could fit without damage.
  
 I noticed that, using the pads from my Superlux HD 681 Evo (I would assume K240 pads would work as well). My initial impressions using the velour pads from the HD 681 was that the soundstage was even larger and the treble was more sparkly. Using the pleather pads, I felt that the bass was definitely a bit stronger, while directional cues seemed easier to detect. I didn't feel that the pads altered the sound very distinctly. These are all initial impressions, so take these observations with a bit of salt.
  
  
 If anyone can try this mod and tell me their impressions as well, I would appreciate it.


----------



## tan1415

> AKG K545 (2.5mm, need confirmation w/2.5mm adapter)
> Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
> Focal Spirit Pro, Classic
> Logitech UE6000
> ...


 
 Thanks for confirming this for me. Looking forward to buying one.
  
 I have the UE6000, MDR 1R and Q40 of the list. how do these headphones rate as gamer headphones?
 Nad HP50 and the COP is probably my next buys.


----------



## Fegefeuer

tan1415 said:


> Thanks for confirming this for me. Looking forward to buying one.
> 
> I have the UE6000, MDR 1R and Q40 of the list. how do these headphones rate as gamer headphones?
> Nad HP50 and the COP is probably my next buys.


 
  
 Are you going to keep them all (if you like them)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't reviewed those headphones. Since I haven't heard/reviewed them, no way will I say whether they're good or not. As closed, isolating headphones, I don't think I'd like them that much for gaming. Open is the way to go for me, save for a few exceptions like the Alpha Dog (which won't even work with the BoomPro). I have NOT confirmed the Ultrasones, and calpis has told me the jacks are recessed, so it may NOT work for those Ultrasones.

That list is just a list stating what the BoomPro WOULD connect to. It is not a recommendations list. I bolded the X1, because that IS a recommended headphone for gaming.

If I get someone else ask me the same thing about those headphones off that list, I will be removing the list (nothing against you, just I don't want the same question asked about headphones I haven't tested) and changing it to a list of headphones I recommend with the BoomPro. Since I have not owned/tested almost ANY good headphones with a detachable 3.5mm cable that would be good for gaming, the list would be quite miniscule.


----------



## Allucid

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't reviewed those headphones. Since I haven't heard/reviewed them, no way will I say whether they're good or not. As closed, isolating headphones, I don't think I'd like them that much for gaming. Open is the way to go for me, save for a few exceptions like the Alpha Dog (which won't even work with the BoomPro). I have NOT confirmed the Ultrasones, and calpis has told me the jacks are recessed, so it may NOT work for those Ultrasones.
> 
> That list is just a list stating what the BoomPro WOULD connect to. It is not a recommendations list. I bolded the X1, because that IS a recommended headphone for gaming.
> 
> If I get someone else ask me the same thing about those headphones off that list, I will be removing the list (nothing against you, just I don't want the same question asked about headphones I haven't tested) and changing it to a list of headphones I recommend with the BoomPro. Since I have not owned/tested almost ANY good headphones with a detachable 3.5mm cable that would be good for gaming, the list would be quite miniscule.



BoomPro does improve sound quality compared to a aux line with a mic / controller. I have one but barely use it, only good for stationary listening.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The point of the boompro wasn't to improve the sound quality. It's to have a boom mic on your headphones. I'm not a firm believer of cable-fi in general. As long as the cable isn't complete crap or have high resistance, anything will do.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Hi Mad Lust Envy, could you give me some of your time and try giving me a opinion here? As you tried them, I guess you are a good person to talk a little more about. Thanks in advance,

Lucas Bezerra.



lucas bezerra said:


> Hi guys, I hope I get some good advice here =). Let's say it, I need the "best headphones" (I know this word doesn't exist in therms of audio, but...) that I can get for competitive first person shooter gaming sessions that also MUST fit a rock lover requirements for a outstanding eargasm. As I'm a starter, my budget for the HP is something like $250 (the less, the better). The HP will be paired with a Creative Soundblaster Z as I need a good 3D view of my enemies/mates location and, IF needed, a Schiit Magni Amplifier can be also put in the cart (you can also make your point here). Maybe I use it on my guitar amp too. I'm gonna use it for something like 8h/day at the vacations, so it needs to be very comfortable and pleasant (my Porta Pro bends my hair almost permanently and this makes me very, very angry). I'm not going to say the music-to-gaming using time ratio because I really think I need something good at both, but if you want cut anything out, I prefer the music quality over the gaming (not too much). Said that statements and after read this Guide, I think these are my options: *AKG Q701* vs *Beyerdynamic DT880* vs *Beyerdynamic DT990* vs *Philips Fidelio X1* vs *Sony MA900* vs *HiFiMAN HE-400*. What do you think? If I forgot anything that can make your recommendation easier just tell me and I will add it. A little help from the thread starter would be also very appreciated. Thanks in advance to all you and sorry for any English Grammar murdering,
> 
> Lucas Bezerra.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can't go wrong with the X1.


----------



## tan1415

fegefeuer said:


> Are you going to keep them all (if you like them)?




I dont think I will. Matter of fact ue6000 is otw out. Just received replacement. The mdr1r is with my bro and q40 is incoming.

Madlust: don't remove the list.its really helpful. Just clarify that it's the headphones that would fit and not a recommendation list.


----------



## Jordy7

Hi mad lust envy
Would you call the following a good middle of the road setup as on a budget

Akg k451
beyerdynamic Custom ONE PRO mic
DSS2 Dolby Processor by Turtle Beach

1. Would you guess they work together
2. I can pick it up for 130£ off amazon.co.uk
3. Should I save for the astro mixamp pro 2013 or wait for 2014 model
4. It's for the ps4 and for listening to music on he go

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I havent reviewed any of these, and I just finished saying I won't recommend something I haven't tested.

As for either DSS, they do NOT work with a mic, unless you have a turtle beach headset or if you have a generic usb soundcard to use with the ps3/4 (dss2). I wouldn't recommend the DSS2 if because it uses a generic virtual surround, not dolby headphone.


----------



## Jordy7

Apologies, it's been a few days since I read it and I'm completely new to gaming with headphones. Il get the astro mixamp after some time, thanks for the reply, appriiciate it


----------



## widdyjudas

Just finished building my rig. I noticed that the xonar DGX performs worse than U3 on dolby headphone.
 The surround sound on u3 is better imo than DGX. Maybe its just my feeling, but I can't get the surround feeling from U3 with the DGX.
 Xonar DGX optic-->Aune X1 mk2 dac-->fidelio X1/swans D1010-IV


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You make sure everything was set up the same? Also, do a speaker test in the devices menu. Sometimes it likes to stick to a messed up 2 channel even when you chose multiple.


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

mad lust envy said:


> You can't go wrong with the X1.


 
 Thanks for the feedback. I made a more carefully and accurate reading at your reviews and now I'm "just" between the Fidelio X1, the MA900 and the Q701 (remember I can have all for almost the same price). But, by what you said at the reviews, I *really *loved the Fidelio X1. But, as I live at a pretty warm place, I'm pretty afraid their earpads can wear out quickly and, as they aren't replaceable, this could be a big issue for me (unless another HP's earpads can fit them well or Philips sell spares)... This is the *only *thing that is making me afraid from buying the Fidelio X1. Could you give me your point here (I'm not asking only for Mad Lust Envy, anyone that feels comfortable to speak about please do it)? Thank you very much,
  
 Lucas Bezerra.


----------



## Naingolann

chicolom said:


> The mic won't work with the DSS for the same reason most mics won't work with it; The DSS only supports USB headset mics.  The Auvio mic terminates into two 3.5mm jacks (audio and mic).


 

 What if I plug an USB Stereo Audio Adapter to the DSS?
  
 Like


Spoiler: this



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MSS6CS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0E9XH70J321D3SNEM8SM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846


 or


Spoiler: this



http://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B004ZQKYZG/ref=s9_simh_se_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A11IL2PNWYJU7H&pf_rd_s=auto-no-results-center-1&pf_rd_r=16Q69TQZXYQFPE6WQ2BJ&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=216079247&pf_rd_i=InLine%C2%AE


  
 Should work, right?
  
 I can't get the V-Moda, but the Auvio is relatively cheap here too.


----------



## Vindication

I picked up the BoomPro and own a pair of PSB M4U2 headphones. I'll be using this in conjunction with the Turtle Beach Seven Series Control unit. Hoping for the best.


----------



## JGOD

vindication said:


> I picked up the BoomPro and own a pair of PSB M4U2 headphones. I'll be using this in conjunction with the Turtle Beach Seven Series Control unit. Hoping for the best.



How is tb7 control unit. I can't find much info on it. Wonder how it compares to the mixamp?


----------



## Vindication

I don't have experience with the mix amp since the seven controller is the only one I have experience with. So far it's worked with the ps4/Xbox as far as audio is concern.....voice chat we will have to see. I think Microsoft will have the adapter at the beginning of March so I'll about it then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the PSB M4U 1 and 2 are compatible with the BoomPro?

Wow, they're expensive. The 1 seems more ideal, as it doesn't have the noise cancelling feature, which tends to make headphones sound worse than their non-NC versions.


----------



## Vindication

I won't know until tomorrow.......

I'll get the mic and see if it works.....post results here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I looked at some unboxings, it looks like standard 3.5mm cables, so I'll take it as a yes. Still, I'll be waiting for your post.

Anyone here getting Symphonia Chronicles? I have a question: Does the back cover state it supports Dolby Digital? They're relatively old games, and I'm guessing it's gonna be stereo.... with MAYBE Pro Logic II at the most.

Asking because, I bought the game digitally, so I can't tell.


----------



## widdyjudas

mad lust envy said:


> You make sure everything was set up the same? Also, do a speaker test in the devices menu. Sometimes it likes to stick to a messed up 2 channel even when you chose multiple.




Yes, every settings are the same like when I used the u3 Somehow the DH surround effect feels weak compared to the u3, especially the rear sound. 
Maybe its just my feeling, but i think better to stick with the u3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It doesn't make sense. If the settings are absolutely identical, the surround effect should be the same. Perhaps you have one stuck on DH-1, while the U3 is on DH-2...

That or the software is properly set up, but your default settings for speakers isn't on 5.1/7.1.


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> Anyone here getting Symphonia Chronicles? I have a question: Does the back cover state it supports Dolby Digital? They're relatively old games, and I'm guessing it's gonna be stereo.... with MAYBE Pro Logic II at the most.


 
  
 Thanks for reminding me to add that to my slickdeals alerts. I forgot all about it. The only thing I could find in relation to your question was a JP rear box shot that had Linear 2CH PCM on it. So probably stereo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeh, played a bit today, definitely stereo, so I'll be using my TV speakers for this.


----------



## SpiderNhan

Just wanted to let you know that the V-MODA BoomPro also works with the updated Skullcandy Aviator that has the removable cable (SKU # S6AVDM-XXX).


----------



## chicolom

naingolann said:


> What if I plug an USB Stereo Audio Adapter to the DSS?
> 
> Like
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you plug those into the PLAYSTATION, I think it will work.  The wiring will be a bit messy and controlling game/voice will have to be done manually.
  
  
 I don't think the DSS is able to see those little USB soundcards though, only USB headsets like from turtle beach.  So I'm pretty sure you can't plug them into the DSS.


----------



## Sam21

How is the soundstage on the CAL! 2 ?
  
 are there improvements compared with the CAL! 1 ?


----------



## Naingolann

chicolom said:


> If you plug those into the PLAYSTATION, I think it will work.  The wiring will be a bit messy and controlling game/voice will have to be done manually.
> 
> 
> I don't think the DSS is able to see those little USB soundcards though, only USB headsets like from turtle beach.  So I'm pretty sure you can't plug them into the DSS.


 
  
 My USB keyboard worked just fine with the USB port on the DSS, so there should be no issue with that. Thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## Vindication

The BoomPro does NOT work with my PSB M4U2 headphones. I guess now i have to wait for the ModMic 4.0. 
  
 What other options do I have at this point?


----------



## chicolom

Ahh.  The USB port may act as a passthrough then...


----------



## Naingolann

I think so. It even recharges the controllers just fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vindication said:


> The BoomPro does NOT work with my PSB M4U2 headphones. I guess now i have to wait for the ModMic 4.0.
> 
> What other options do I have at this point?




It should work with the M4U 1. The cable is a standard 3.5mm cable. Don't understand why you need active noise cancelling unless you're on a plane or loud train...

Regular sealed headphones should be enough for daily use if you just need to keep quiet, or keep moderate noise from bugging you. I'll update the first post.


----------



## Vindication

I'm at the gym everyday. They get a little stupid with their selection of music. If I didn't see a bunch of weights and machines i would think i just stepped into a concert. They play all their music SOOOOO loud. I'll just flip the noise cancelation and it drowns out whatever BS they have on. It's the thing I use the most so it wasn't a option NOT to have it. 
  
 I've gone option 2 which will be a ModMic into a Rockit Adapter into my series 7 amp. I just ordered a Quad Mogami from one of the forum members here. Can't wait to try that out.


----------



## Vindication

oh and as far as the NC making headphones sound worse......I tested personally 15 or so NC (including the QC15s which for being so trendy were actually really good) and read over 30 reviews of the M4U2 and you'd be surprised how many state the M4U2 headphones is ONE of the best NC headphones on the market. But as i mentioned they are for gym use (and i guess gaming set) for now. Eventually I want to get a high end headphone set up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why won't the 2 work with a detachable 3.5mm cable? I thought it was detachable.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I looked at some unboxings, it looks like standard 3.5mm cables, so I'll take it as a yes. Still, I'll be waiting for your post.
> 
> Anyone here getting Symphonia Chronicles? I have a question: Does the back cover state it supports Dolby Digital? They're relatively old games, and I'm guessing it's gonna be stereo.... with MAYBE Pro Logic II at the most.
> 
> Asking because, I bought the game digitally, so I can't tell.


 
  
 Someone brought a retail copy to the game room today; although the copyright text mentions Dolby Labs, there is otherwise no presence of a Dolby logo for anything on the case or the disc. (Nobody played it because they were too busy playing Tales of Graces f instead, though.)
  
 For what it's worth, the original GameCube release doesn't have Dolby Pro Logic II-encoded output, either. It's just stereo.
  
 And speaking of which...I know I'm supposed to be more tolerant of old graphics and all, but dear god, this game just looks far too pixellated with a Wii, component cables and an HDTV. It's borderline painful to look at without any form of anti-aliasing and makes me feel like I stepped into the early-1990s era of PC gaming. I really should've played it when I first bought it so that it wouldn't have felt quite as dated.
  
 Unfortunately, one of my friends tells me the PS3 version's been downgraded to 30 FPS, even though there should be no technical reason whatsoever for that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah... I was quite disappointed last night to find out that the game was running at 30fps. I distinctly remember the original running at 60fps. Hell, almost all Tales games run at 60fps when at LEAST in the battle screen.

What, Sony/Bamco... this is an ancient game. There is no reason to chop the framerate by half. The game looks ugly as sin too. It's ironic that the true PS3 Tales games run a 60fps for the battle screens, but this simple rehash doesn't.

I'm not playing it for the graphics though. I'm playing it because I missed it last time. Now I'm wishing I had played it on GC instead.

The good thing about the PS4 is that it seems most games are running with an unlocked framerate, which I prefer over capping it at 30fps. It may dip below 60, but anything above a consistent 30 works better for me.

If we get any remakes on PS4, you can bet they're probably gonna be smooth as butter.


----------



## Vindication

it is but for some reason i got no sound. Very odd.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What cable you using? From what I've seen, you should be able to share audio from the PSB to another headphone, meaning using their own 3.5mm cables. Make sure it's plugged in all the way. Now I'm gonna have to remove some headphones off the list, since it seems these headphones came with a 3 pole plug, meaning regular 2 pole plugs may only be inserted partially...


----------



## Vindication

everything was connected correctly. No go.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna take those off the list, then. It doesn't make sense to me, as they're stated to share audio with other headphones, but I'll take your word for it, for now.

Chico:

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRyPgQU-WMc[/VIDEO]

That sounds disappointing... ragged treble? No thanks.


----------



## Vindication

I'll do a video on my iPhone if you want and send it to you. lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I believe you. I think it's the same problem I had with the Slyr and using it with other cables. Some worked, some didn't. It's odd. Since it's inconsistent, I won't put it on the list, until someone tests it with the BoomPro itself.


----------



## Vindication

i've seen soooo many videos of this guy.....I WOULD LOVEEEEEEE to see a video where he gives nothing but praise to a headphone. He always complains. Mr Debbie downer if you ask me.


----------



## Vindication

What do you mean test it with the Boom Pro itself. I have the Boom Pro right here with me. They didn't work for the PSB.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. And umm, he doesn't always complain. He just has an ear for what sounds and measures well. The K812 did neither for him. You can even see the ragged treble and impulse response on the graphs. He called it like he saw it. Graphs are part of an equation, but they are a good indicator. The K812 has a fantastic balance...up to the treble, where it becomes... not so high end.

Tyll is well known and respected because he knows his stuff. I would rather believe someone that can nitpick a headphone's shortcomings, rather than brushing them off and giving nothing but positive impressions. Especially on a $1500 headphone which shouldn't be having these problems in the first place. In fact, I've been told that he's like me, we try and see the good side of every headphone. If it's bad, we'll say why. Like my review of the DNA Pro. There's nothing to hate about the sound (one of my fave sounds on ANY headphone), but plenty to hate about the build quality and comfort. It's a Monster product, and they sent me these headphones, but I'm not restricted in any shape or form on my opinions. I won't brush off statements that I feel are true. Tyll won't either. He may keep it to himself unless he gets asked, which is the case with the K812.

BTW, he loves the Fidelio X1 AND it measured well.

Also, you're not getting AUDIO at all? Or just mic audio?


----------



## Vindication

PM me  your email. I took video proof with my iPhone. Just would like to show you. I took a look at the FX1 and they look great too but again I'm in a gym with my headphones 80 percent of the time. Not until recently I'm going to use them as a gaming set as well. I don't think the open headphones are something i can use unless i was always going to be somewhere nice and quiet.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I wanted to give a quick update on my Astro wireless mixamp, X1 + BoomPro setup. I installed a rechargeable battery about 2 weeks ago and charged it to max capacity. I've been gaming on my PS4 at least an hour a day and the battery has yet to die. Amazing battery life compared to 3 AAA batteries which lasted almost 3 hours max! Wow! BTW, X1 + BoomPro + Astro wireless mixamp = amazing. If Sony releases a firmware update that raises the chat volume when using the USB PS3/PC chat cable, this setup will be perfect.


----------



## sbv20j

Hi all I have just started on headphone journey I have just purchased as set of astro a40's second hand (around 2 months old) to get the mixamp (2013 mix amp pro).
 I am trying to decide if I should I dive in a buy a set of ad700 straight up and sell the astro headset as they line up with my budget or wait and see how the astros sound? I mainly play FPS games.
 I will be using them on a xbox one via a hdmi audio extractor so I can get 5.1 until Microsoft sort themselves out.
 Any thoughts?


----------



## pack21

REceived today my new toys for gaming, Mixamp PRO 2013 + MA900 + zalman mic, can't wait to play BF4.

Listing music with then is quite impressive, very happy at moment.


----------



## Sam21

Is the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 compatible with the V-MODA Boompro ? How about HD598 ?  
  
  
 Also, How do CAL1 and CAL2 compare ?


----------



## Lucas Bezerra

Ple





pack21 said:


> REceived today my new toys for gaming, Mixamp PRO 2013 + MA900 + zalman mic, can't wait to play BF4.
> 
> Listing music with then is quite impressive, very happy at moment.


 
Please leave your feedback when you have your opinion done about it


----------



## DADDYDC650

sam21 said:


> Is the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 compatible with the V-MODA Boompro ? How about HD598 ?
> 
> 
> Also, How do CAL1 and CAL2 compare ?


 
 The Creative Arvana Live! 2 is a headset. Already has a mic.


----------



## Sam21

It has detachable cable, the mic is in the cable i think. so I am wondering if it is compatible with Boompro ? is CAL!2 significantly better than CAL!1 ?
  
  
 and how about HD598, is it compatible with boompro ?


----------



## Evshrug

The original CAL! (designed by Fostex) sounds better than the CAL2!, though I haven't seen any reviews on their new gold and platinum offerings.

The HD598 has a special connector, FWIR not compatible with a BoomPro


----------



## Change is Good

Just got my K612s back....
  
 Put some K702 pads on em that I ordered while they were gone... and man...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



DAT BASS!!!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Just got my K612s back....
> 
> Put some K702 pads on em that I ordered while they were gone... and man...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Forget the bass, give us photos!


----------



## Change is Good

Nothing too fancy, just a cheap retermination for a detachable cable. The hanging entry is longer than I anticipated, but its best so it won't always be rubbing against the cup....


----------



## Evshrug

Pretty...

On another note, I've hooked up my Yamaha again. First, the amp in this is pretty nice... Not detecting any treble fatigue in my k712's (with Q701 pads) and power delivery is smooth. Well, sometimes it seems like the bass is clipping a little... But that could just be the downloadable Guardians of Light. Halo: Reach is as good as I remembered this way, with my now-knowledge of Dolby Headphone it does indeed sound very similar, though the "standard" movie DSP has a bit more reverb and basically is what I'd imagine DH mode 3 to be like. You can adjust the strength of Silent Cinema's surround effect, so it's like a more granular adjustment between DH Mode 1, 2, and 3. Very much a "Dolby headphone" clone. Haven't fiddled with every single setting yet. For example, I wonder what happens if I apply Dolby Pro llz to a 5.1 DDL signal?

The most evident thing, however, was getting used to the TV here... It's a 55" LED 3D "Smart TV" by Panasonic, I turned on game mode and as many enhancements as I could to "off;" I can't actually "see" a delay, I just can't pull off the super-fast aim adjustments as frequently as I could using a VGA cable to my monitor. It's also hard to understate the effect of going from sitting in front of a 20" monitor to trying to find the optimal distance (sitting on a table, lol) to take in a 55" screen and not be overwhelmed by the sheer scale of what you're taking in. It definitely has intensely good picture quality though. Call me weird... but I may have to switch to my smaller 42" plasma, once I get that set up (somewhere).


----------



## motorwayne

change is good said:


> Just got my K612s back....
> 
> Put some K702 pads on em that I ordered while they were gone... and man...
> 
> ...


 
 Really? Does it screw with anything else? plus, what material are they?
  
  
 Gingo's, the 612 with more bass would be orgasmic.


----------



## Change is Good

motorwayne said:


> Really? Does it screw with anything else? plus, what material are they?
> 
> 
> Gingo's, the 612 with more bass would be orgasmic.


 
  
 The soundstage is significantly wider, which is a plus considering the enhanced bass. The K702 pads are made of the same material, just thicker and angled.
  
 I was going to go for the memory foam pads of the K712/Annie, but am glad I didn't. They may end up TOO bassy/warm with those... since they add more bass to the signature and reduce the soundstage when compared to the angled pads.
  
 Edit: And oh, by the way, to those MA900 owners who would like they're cable reterminated for a detachable 3.5mm option (for the BoomPro)... @Zombie_X said he'd be willing to do it for a reasonable price.


----------



## JGOD

evshrug said:


> Pretty...
> 
> On another note, I've hooked up my Yamaha again. First, the amp in this is pretty nice... Not detecting any treble fatigue in my k712's (with Q701 pads) and power delivery is smooth. Well, sometimes it seems like the bass is clipping a little... But that could just be the downloadable Guardians of Light. Halo: Reach is as good as I remembered this way, with my now-knowledge of Dolby Headphone it does indeed sound very similar, though the "standard" movie DSP has a bit more reverb and basically is what I'd imagine DH mode 3 to be like. You can adjust the strength of Silent Cinema's surround effect, so it's like a more granular adjustment between DH Mode 1, 2, and 3. Very much a "Dolby headphone" clone. Haven't fiddled with every single setting yet. For example, I wonder what happens if I apply Dolby Pro llz to a 5.1 DDL signal?
> 
> The most evident thing, however, was getting used to the TV here... It's a 55" LED 3D "Smart TV" by Panasonic, I turned on game mode and as many enhancements as I could to "off;" I can't actually "see" a delay, I just can't pull off the super-fast aim adjustments as frequently as I could using a VGA cable to my monitor. It's also hard to understate the effect of going from sitting in front of a 20" monitor to trying to find the optimal distance (sitting on a table, lol) to take in a 55" screen and not be overwhelmed by the sheer scale of what you're taking in. It definitely has intensely good picture quality though. Call me weird... but I may have to switch to my smaller 42" plasma, once I get that set up (somewhere).



I used to play on a 47'' tv. (Cod) I was like a 1.2 player. I bought a 24'' gaming monitor and I'm a 2 k/d player. When you stretch 1080p over 30'',it creates input lag. Your better off on a monitor. Something that's 5ms or lower.


----------



## pervysage

Good news for Xbox One users. Dolby Digital 5.1 over Optical is being added in the upcoming March system update. So us headset users with Mixamps can finally get the proper DD 5.1 signal.

Anyone get invited to preview the March update?


----------



## Evshrug

jgod said:


> I used to play on a 47'' tv. (Cod) I was like a 1.2 player. I bought a 24'' gaming monitor and I'm a 2 k/d player. When you stretch 1080p over 30'',it creates input lag. Your better off on a monitor. Something that's 5ms or lower.



I agree. Probably less critical if I wasn't playing halo SWAT, which is crazy-fast (most kills are 1-shot, unless both players are aware of each other and dodging already). Even just getting adjusted to a large set feels weird, I had to lower my sensitivity.

I don't necessarily think it's the larger panel creating more input lag, at least by itself, I think the input lag comes from the "image enhancing" extra features which are great for movies & TV (but not for interaction).




change is good said:


> The soundstage is significantly wider, which is a plus considering the enhanced bass. The K702 pads are made of the same material, just thicker and angled.
> 
> I was going to go for the memory foam pads of the K712/Annie, but am glad I didn't. They may end up TOO bassy/warm with those... since they add more bass to the signature and reduce the soundstage when compared to the angled pads.
> 
> ...




I almost always felt my Q701 had plenty of bass. Maybe it was because my pads had melded to my headshape, but the first time I compared Q701 then K712, I felty the Q701 had MORE bass (though the K712 was tighter and more refined). Just a smudge though. And with the Q701 pads on my K712, I can't tell you the change just based off of memory.

Good to know that it'll be relatively easy for people that have single-ended cable headphones will have an option to have a tidy setup. Does the mic reach a good position for you, since it starts lower? I also feel the ModMic and lapel mic solutions cause negligible wire tangles, but I guess that's an opinion.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I agree. Probably less critical if I wasn't playing halo SWAT, which is crazy-fast (most kills are 1-shot, unless both players are aware of each other and dodging already). Even just getting adjusted to a large set feels weird, I had to lower my sensitivity.
> 
> I don't necessarily think it's the larger panel creating more input lag, at least by itself, I think the input lag comes from the "image enhancing" extra features which are great for movies & TV (but not for interaction).
> I almost always felt my Q701 had plenty of bass. Maybe it was because my pads had melded to my headshape, but the first time I compared Q701 then K712, I felty the Q701 had MORE bass (though the K712 was tighter and more refined). Just a smudge though. And with the Q701 pads on my K712, I can't tell you the change just based off of memory.
> ...




Nah, I opted for a mini XLR input like the other AKGs. These have to be plugged into an amp so I passed on the 3.5mm option for the BoomPro.

I have my extra K702 cable tied together with my mic cable using bread ties... and the K612 cable was cut and reterminated to 5.5ft for use at my desk.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I agree. Probably less critical if I wasn't playing halo SWAT, which is crazy-fast (most kills are 1-shot, unless both players are aware of each other and dodging already). Even just getting adjusted to a large set feels weird, I had to lower my sensitivity.
> 
> I don't necessarily think it's the larger panel creating more input lag, at least by itself, I think the input lag comes from the "image enhancing" extra features which are great for movies & TV (but not for interaction).


 
 Sounds like you've probably already considered this, but make sure you run your HDMI direct to the TV rather than through the AVR.  Sometimes AVR's can add noticeable lag.
  
 Can you just confirm that you think the Yamaha Silent Cinema is pretty similar to Dolby Headphone?  I need to upgrade my AVR since I don't have HDMI switching in my old one, but I can't find any new ones with DH.  I can't find any solid info on how the HK Surround and Silent Cinema compare to DH since it's hard to capture those to Youtube.


----------



## DonSolo

So I was going to get the AKG Q701 but found out that it doesn't work with the *Vmoda BoomPro* so I was wondering what is the best headphones for gaming under $200. I only play on the PC and usually its CSGO or some other shooters. Looking for some that are compatible with *Vmoda BoomPro*. Thanks for your time and this great guide.


----------



## motorwayne

change is good said:


> The soundstage is significantly wider, which is a plus considering the enhanced bass. The K702 pads are made of the same material, just thicker and angled.
> 
> I was going to go for the memory foam pads of the K712/Annie, but am glad I didn't. They may end up TOO bassy/warm with those... since they add more bass to the signature and reduce the soundstage when compared to the angled pads.


 
 Ha! I've put an order in at the local AKG agent for a pair of the K702 pads, might take a while but what the heck, sounds legit.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Sounds like you've probably already considered this, but make sure you run your HDMI direct to the TV rather than through the AVR.  Sometimes AVR's can add noticeable lag.
> 
> Can you just confirm that you think the Yamaha Silent Cinema is pretty similar to Dolby Headphone?  I need to upgrade my AVR since I don't have HDMI switching in my old one, but I can't find any new ones with DH.  I can't find any solid info on how the HK Surround and Silent Cinema compare to DH since it's hard to capture those to Youtube.



Yeah, HDMI to TV and optical to AVR.

I have two Dolby Headphone devices (Turtle Beach DSS v1, Astro Mixamp 5.8), a THX TrueStudio Pro device (Recon3D USB), an SBX Pro Studio device (Sound Blaster Omni, used to have an internal Z card), and I can confirm that Silent Cinema is most like Dolby Headphone. You probably will notice reverb for rear sound cues, but it does a good job of creating imaging.

I don't claim to know everything... right now I can't get my Xbox 360 to play a DVD movie, could be a lot of factors. However, I try to share my experiences and opinions, see my "If I knew then..." link in my signature. Thanks for suggestions!



donsolo said:


> So I was going to get the AKG Q701 but found out that it doesn't work with the *Vmoda BoomPro* so I was wondering what is the best headphones for gaming under $200. I only play on the PC and usually its CSGO or some other shooters. Looking for some that are compatible with *Vmoda BoomPro*. Thanks for your time and this great guide.




The BoomPro is good, but hardly should be considered your only option. You can get three clip-on lapel mics, that do very well, for less than $5, and the cable could just be wound around the headphone cable for tidiness OR just run straight to the controller... The cable isn't so long that it creates a spaghetti mess.

If you want a headphone with great imaging and smoother treble so that the snap of your own guns in CS:GO don't make your ears tired quickly (I have a friend whose ears start waxing up if he plays CS:GO with cheap headphones), I highly recommend Sony's MA900 as a great choice. Also good with music, but the Q701 has the energy to IMO make a more interesting all-arounder.


----------



## Evshrug

@Stillhart,
PS, I am not rich, I've just been at this for two years and accumulated stuff. The TV belongs to my roommate, I just had to try it out


----------



## Change is Good

motorwayne said:


> Ha! I've put an order in at the local AKG agent for a pair of the K702 pads, might take a while but what the heck, sounds legit.


----------



## Evshrug

Thumbs up!


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> Just got my K612s back....
> 
> Put some K702 pads on em that I ordered while they were gone... and man...
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What did the pads do to the soundstage?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> What did the pads do to the soundstage?


 
  
 They significantly widen the soundstage, allowing the added bass/warmth ample room to excel. And... did I mention it improves the detail and clarity, as well?


----------



## chicolom

change is good said:


> They significantly widen the soundstage, allowing the added bass/warmth ample room to excel. And... did I mention it improves the detail and clarity, as well?


 
  
 So is K612 + K702 pads > Q701?


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> So is K612 + K702 pads > Q701?


 
  
 Soundstage depth? maybe... it's been quite a while since I heard the stock Q701... so I'm not really sure.
  
 Bass? I think it may be the most bass I've heard from an open AKG... and definitely has the deepest extension. No BS
  
 Better headphone, overall? Definitely... IMO


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Soundstage depth? maybe... it's been quite a while since I heard the stock Q701... so I'm not really sure.
> 
> Bass? I think it may be the most bass I've heard from an open AKG... and definitely has the deepest extension. No BS
> 
> Better headphone, overall? Definitely... IMO


 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## mikaveli06

Is the x1 a noticable improvement to astro a40 in soundstage and directional cues?


----------



## Evshrug

Dayyyyyum! The K712 with Q701 pads (broken in) get HOT after a while! I think the K712 pads breathe better, the driver just creates more heat. I guess it could be a stronger magnet? Moving faster/harder, thus generating more heat?

Also the black Xbox 360 "elite"... After that HDCP update a few years back, I can't play DVD's in it. Now I know, having tried DVDs on multiple TVs and HDMI cables, today trying new components released last summer, that it probably is the Elite that doesn't support HDCP. Why would Microsoft break existing functionality???!? Any way around this, without buying a new system?


-----

Change, it's pretty easy to make this into an AKG fan club, huh? 
I bet that, side-by-side, the K712 is better. Maybe not enough to justify the $$$ difference at current prices, but the cost has a history of coming down.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Dayyyyyum! The K712 with Q701 pads (broken in) get HOT after a while! I think the K712 pads breathe better, the driver just creates more heat. I guess it could be a stronger magnet? Moving faster/harder, thus generating more heat?
> 
> Also the black Xbox 360 "elite"... After that HDCP update a few years back, I can't play DVD's in it. Now I know, having tried DVDs on multiple TVs and HDMI cables, today trying new components released last summer, that it probably is the Elite that doesn't support HDCP. Why would Microsoft break existing functionality???!? Any way around this, without buying a new system?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, considering I keep find myself going back to AKG... definitely! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Stock K612 vs K712? K712 wins
  
 K612 (w/angled pads) vs K712? I would pay to see this matchup...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Willing to bet it's more of sound signature preference, and not a technical one. Pretty sure the K712 is more refined and high end, if AKG is asking for a LOT more than the K612 goes for.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Willing to bet it's more of sound signature preference, and not a technical one. Pretty sure the *K712 is more refined and high end*, if AKG is asking for a LOT more than the K612 goes for.


 
  
 The K702 pads on the K612 makes it more refined and high end than stock, IMO... which is why I think it would give the K712 a run for its money. Trust me, this is not sound preference that has me making these assumptions...
  
 As I've mentioned, elsewhere... the higher price of the K712, i think, is due to aesthetics and accessories more than anything else. Memory foam pads, better headband, a detacheable option, an extra cable, better structure/housing, and a nice velvet bag. None of which come with the K612...


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> Dayyyyyum! The K712 with Q701 pads (broken in) get HOT after a while! I think the K712 pads breathe better, the driver just creates more heat. I guess it could be a stronger magnet? Moving faster/harder, thus generating more heat?


 
  
 I always found the spring foam pads (Q701/K702) stayed a little cooler over time than the memory foam ones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My A30s are coming in today. Here's hoping they don't sound like absolute piss.


----------



## benbenkr

Sony needs to freaking add bluetooth support back in for other bluetooth earpiece/headsets/clip-ons for the PS4. The freaking PS3 has support for it, why doesn't the PS4 have any? I know the PS4 works on a later version of bluetooth which would render some older models incompatible, but jeez... not a single one except certified products?
  
 My method of chat on the PS3 was simple, I only had 1 cable to the desk where my equipments are and that's the headphone cable, which is to the amp and to the TB DSS. I have a clip-on bluetooth headset which I just leave on my shirt and output chat audio to my headphones, it was a simple and easy setup. Why did Sony even took it away when a feature like this is... an ancient feature in today's standards.
  
 Sigh.
  
 /rant over


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Sony needs to freaking add bluetooth support back in for other bluetooth earpiece/headsets/clip-ons for the PS4.


 
  
  
 At least Sony has _some _support for stuff like that. 
  
 LOL at Microsoft ever doing anything like that.


----------



## rc10mike

mad lust envy said:


> My A30s are coming in today. Here's hoping they don't sound like absolute piss.


 
 They probably will, plan on sending them back.
  
 A30s are nothing to write home about...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't need it to blow my mind. I need it to be at least decent. What I heard from my A30s wasn't even mediocre. It was BAD. It's been a good while since I've heard a BAD headphone, and it doesn't line up with the impressions I've seen online, stating that some prefer the A30s to the A40s, sonically. The A30 I had sounded like some horrible knock off. The frequency response was quite inconsistent between the drivers. One had zero bass. The sound overall was incredibly thin as well. Seriously, AM radio type quality. I don't believe Astro purposely sold this A30, and I expect a good improvement with my fixed/replaced A30.


----------



## Imperatore

Thank you for this Mad Lust.  This is a minefield for relative newbies such as myself.  I nearly just gave up and settled for some A50's because it was easy but glad I didn't.  I definitely want Dolby Headphones so will be getting a Mixamp, it's a toss up between DT990 (250 ohm) and Fidelio X1.  My current reservations are, DT990:  reports of harsh treble and listening fatigue, wouldn't get the best out of them with the mixamp and I do not know if it's possible to have Dolby through the mixamp which is somehow connected to a DAC/AMP like the Mav Audio Tubemagic which I would import.  the plus side is the phones are about £118 comapred to £180 for the Fidelio BUT would require the extra AMP/DAC purchase thus negating this bonus.
 The Fidelio seem to be held in high regard, I belive would be fine through the Mixamp as they are 50 ohm (may be wrong here) and thus would't really require the extra DAC/AMP purchase, Despite costing £60 more this would actually work out cheaper as no extra equipment needed.
 I rarely listen to music through headphones and this will be purely for my PS4 gaming, not movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I suggest the X1. Really.


----------



## Imperatore

I was kind of hoping you'd say that!  Looking into it, I didn't realise there was standalone Dolby Surround processors like the Turtle Beach Earforce wotsit, thing is, it's only £30 less than the Astro  which will also amplify me, even if it's not the ideal amount but I'm sure I'll be happy.  Plus it's all in one so less wires.
 Only previous equipment I've had was AT M50S and an E17 Fiio amp, found the headphones too uncomfortable though and my ears got hot.  Will keep an eye on the X1 as the price keeps fluctuating but I'll report back when I've got it all.


----------



## mikaveli06

Is x1 naticable upgrade over astro a40.....mainly soundstage and directional cues


----------



## Fegefeuer

mikaveli06 said:


> Is x1 naticable upgrade over astro a40.....mainly soundstage and directional cues


 
  
 The X1 is the best in its own price range as well, no chance for the A40 at all.


----------



## pack21

lucas bezerra said:


> Ple
> 
> Please leave your feedback when you have your opinion done about it




Played last night BF4/PS4 and watch a movie. 

A M A Z I N G !


All MLE said is true. 

Bass is on my point and engagement, for gaming I don't want lower or higher, punch is strong when it's called, great mids and fantastic soundstage. 


Playing BF4 engage another level. 


Very pleasured and surprised with this set.


Zalman mic is mehr, I'm waiting modmic V4 mute.


----------



## Gobhal

So, I have read here and elsewhere that if you run a mic with the mixamp then you may have trouble driving the headphones properly without an amp. 
  
 Is this only for harder to drive cans or does this apply to the HD 598 and the X1's as well as those are the two I will be playing around with.


----------



## DADDYDC650

gobhal said:


> So, I have read here and elsewhere that if you run a mic with the mixamp then you may have trouble driving the headphones properly without an amp.
> 
> Is this only for harder to drive cans or does this apply to the HD 598 and the X1's as well as those are the two I will be playing around with.


 
 My X1 with the BoomPro mic sounds great when connected to my Astro wireless mixamp.


----------



## chicolom

gobhal said:


> So, I have read here and elsewhere that if you run a mic with the mixamp then you may have trouble driving the headphones properly without an amp.
> 
> Is this only for harder to drive cans or does this apply to the HD 598 and the X1's as well as those are the two I will be playing around with.


 
  
  
 Mainly harder to drive headphones.  The X1 and HD598 will be fine in terms of volume.


----------



## Stillhart

Well, since MS announced that they're not going to have virtual surround through the controller in the Titanfall patch, I'm considering running a long cable across the room to my AVR for DH.  Should I be worried about sound degradation if I get a 15' extension cable from Monoprice?
  
 This will be used to run my (incoming) X1's through my HK AVR340.  Alternatively, I was thinking about grabbing a wireless Mixamp, but I strongly suspect the wireless will degrade sound quality more than a long cable.  Also it's like $100 more.
  
 On a side note, if this works out well, I may buy a Q701 to see how it compares to the X1.  Since I'll be running it through my AVR, the Q's need amplification shouldn't be a problem.  I'd then sell off the one I like less.


----------



## Gobhal

Thanks for the replies guys. Mostly used these on a PC gaming rig but since I got a PS4 decided to get a mixamp pro  So far so good, boompro is coming today 
  
 Now to sort out an amp/dac for music and movies since my xonar died and the x-fi I have been using sounds pretty bad. Any suggestions? Was looking at the magni/modi setup. Any suggestions for something cheaper? Been spending enough lately and girlfriend may stab me soon


----------



## JayL

X1 $232.26 from amazon right now


----------



## damstr

I currently have DT990 Pro's 250ohm and I'm looking to get another headset that's easier to drive and sounds just as good or better. What would you all recommend?

I don't like being tethered to an amp all the time if you know what I mean.


----------



## Vindication

pervysage said:


> Good news for Xbox One users. Dolby Digital 5.1 over Optical is being added in the upcoming March system update. So us headset users with Mixamps can finally get the proper DD 5.1 signal.
> 
> Anyone get invited to preview the March update?


 
 Odd, I've used a series 7 control unit and it works for me.........


----------



## Vader2k

stillhart said:


> Well, since MS announced that they're not going to have virtual surround through the controller in the Titanfall patch, I'm considering running a long cable across the room to my AVR for DH.  Should I be worried about sound degradation if I get a 15' extension cable from Monoprice?
> 
> This will be used to run my (incoming) X1's through my HK AVR340.  Alternatively, I was thinking about grabbing a wireless Mixamp, but I strongly suspect the wireless will degrade sound quality more than a long cable.  Also it's like $100 more.
> 
> On a side note, if this works out well, I may buy a Q701 to see how it compares to the X1.  Since I'll be running it through my AVR, the Q's need amplification shouldn't be a problem.  I'd then sell off the one I like less.


 
  
 I have a Marantz AVR with DH and use long cable runs.  I have 3 monoprice "designed for mobile" cables; a 10' M/M, a 6' F/M ext, and a 12' F/M ext.  I've used both extension lengths on the X1 and the Annies and haven't noticed any difference in quality.  I remember asking about cable length when I got my AVR last year and I believe MLE told me the increase in length shouldn't be a problem.
  
 Hope that helps!


----------



## Murder Mike

damstr said:


> I currently have DT990 Pro's 250ohm and I'm looking to get another headset that's easier to drive and sounds just as good or better. What would you all recommend?
> 
> I don't like being tethered to an amp all the time if you know what I mean.


 
 The X1.


----------



## Stillhart

vader2k said:


> I have a Marantz AVR with DH and use long cable runs.  I have 3 monoprice "designed for mobile" cables; a 10' M/M, a 6' F/M ext, and a 12' F/M ext.  I've used both extension lengths on the X1 and the Annies and haven't noticed any difference in quality.  I remember asking about cable length when I got my AVR last year and I believe MLE told me the increase in length shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Hope that helps!


 
 That helps a lot, thanks!  Does your Marantz drive the Annies well without any additional amping?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> They significantly widen the soundstage, allowing the added bass/warmth ample room to excel. And... did I mention it improves the detail and clarity, as well?


 
 I have the K702 pads on the K612s and I just can't agree with that...
 To my ears, it did add bass but it threw the imaging out of place and the clarity deteriorated...
 I wish it had the same effect as it had on you cause they were incredibly comfy...
 My ears must be malfunctioning


----------



## Vader2k

stillhart said:


> That helps a lot, thanks!  Does your Marantz drive the Annies well without any additional amping?


 
 Yeah, to me it does fine.  I don't have a lot of experience with headphone amps (I've only owned a Magni, which I used to double-amp the Annies off the Mixamp).  But MLE owned a Marantz AVR for a while back when he had his Annies and he felt they were adequately driven.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> I have the K702 pads on the K612s and I just can't agree with that...
> To my ears, it did add bass but it threw the imaging out of place and the clarity deteriorated...
> I wish it had the same effect as it had on you cause they were incredibly comfy...
> My ears must be malfunctioning




I dare you to try them again...

I'm not the only one with these impressions. Plenty others have reported a larger soundstage when switching to K702 pads, on both the K612 and K601.


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> I dare you to try them again...
> 
> I'm not the only one with these impressions. Plenty others have reported a larger soundstage when switching to K702 pads, on both the K612 and K601.


 

 Larger but not necessarily better to some people. I prefer the soundstage with stock pads personally, it's more accurate in it's imaging to my ears.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm a bit of a soundstage head, so to me its the other way around. I've been hearing better detail with the angled pads, and have also noticed better positional accuracy (when gaming) due to the increased soundstage.

With the stock pads, it just seems a bit congested, now. Not all people, however, are crazy about larger than average soundstages. So I understand your point of view.

Maybe the increase in bass is throwing you guys off when it comes to detail on the rest of the frequency? To me, not only does it have an increase in quantity, but the quality is much better, also. Mind you, my ears gave grown accustomed to the 1540, so bass doesnt get in the way of detail and imaging like it used to.


----------



## Change is Good

After a bit of comparing back n forth, I see why you guys are under the impression that the K702 pads cause the K612 to lose some clarity and detail. 

The mids and highs have been pushed back a little, they are not as much "in your face" as they are with the stock pads. Granted, I believe this is due to the wider soundstage. The thickness of the pads do this, naturally, as your ears are now further away from the drivers. I believe the thickness is what also causes the tighter and stronger bass impact.

Also, since your ears are now further away from the drivers... these are now even harder to drive. Increase the volume when compared to stock, and the detail and clarity is still there. A bit "smoother," so to say, and not as harsh as it was before.

So... I guess it is a matter of preference, then...


----------



## mikaveli06

Deleted


----------



## Imperatore

My X1 arrived this morning, 11 hours after ordering, brilliant Amazon UK.  I got a Fisual f-Flex 1.5m cable as well as I was told the supplied one wasn't great (looks fine to me).  No idea when the Mixamp will turn up but I had a quick listen straight from my iPad and they still sounded great, I think they may be comfortable for a long period too which will be a first.  The ATH M50s got my ears very very hot.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I'm a bit of a soundstage head, so to me its the other way around. I've been hearing better detail with the angled pads, and have also noticed better positional accuracy (when gaming) due to the increased soundstage.
> 
> With the stock pads, it just seems a bit congested, now. Not all people, however, are crazy about larger than average soundstages. So I understand your point of view.
> 
> Maybe the increase in bass is throwing you guys off when it comes to detail on the rest of the frequency? To me, not only does it have an increase in quantity, but the quality is much better, also. Mind you, my ears gave grown accustomed to the 1540, so bass doesnt get in the way of detail and imaging like it used to.


 

 I agree with you on the soundstage part.. I noticed that with my arcam r dac, straight away the soundstage was much wider and more precise even when i was watching youtube.. on one of the adverts someone was shouting at someone from the other side of the road and it sounded like he was on the other side of the road..it makes the directional audio more convincing!


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://peter.family-rill.de/Projekte/Umbau-Philips-SBC-HD1502
  
 Dude is modding the Philips Dolby Headphone Device (accepting DTS/AC3) with better opamps and signal path and adds Line Out. If you're lucky you get such a device for cheap.


----------



## Acerackham

Hey guys wondering if someone could shed some light on a few things for me, tried sifting through the previous posts for an answer but can't really find anything. I'm a bit new to the headphone scene recently bought a pair of AKG K545's from Amazon due to a sale in the UK. Wanted to get a mix amp and use this with my ps4 but as far as I'm aware I would need to get a seperate mic such as the Zalman or Modmic. 

Few questions:
1. Is it not possible to use the mic cable that comes with the headphones for voice chat or is that not compatible? As I understand the V moda mic acts much in the same way being a cable use instead of the normal headphone cable

2. If I purchased a attachable mic, would I have to buy a Y adapter in order to use this with the mixamp? 

3. How would I then set this up in the ps4 settings to have the mic work and the headphones with the 5.1 surround soon? 

4. Finally, is the mix amp better than the turtle beach dss2? Could only find comparisons with the original dss, not really bothered about price just wanted the best sound quality and chat options. 

I apologise for seeming obtuse or asking alot of questions , I'm very new to this stuff and any help would be appreciated thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got my A30s in. Definitely better. It no longer sounds completely anemic and one sided. Still I'd take the Slyr over the A30s any day of the week. The A30s don't even remotely come close to the DNA On Ear, which is basically a huge improvement in every single aspect, from what I'm hearing. Still, it's gonna take me some time to get to reviewing these. I'll be starting my DNA On Ear review soon.

Now having the BoomPro, the DNA just makes a clear choice over the A30s for me. Obviously completely different price ranges, but there's no reason for me to own the A30s. They work, and I'll probably sell them for cheap.

The good thing is that they're pretty comfy. The DNA is overall decent in comfort, but after a prolonged period of time, my ears get real sore from the pleather. The A30s could suit me as a backup headset when the DNA starts hurting though I don't count on it, and I have a much more comfortable headset in the waiting to review as well (Ultrasone HS15, thanks to calpis). The HS15 doesn't suit my tastes either, but it's stupid comfy.



For now, as mains, I'll be using the DNA Pro (not in the picture) as my main can for most purposes. Its broken, but ghetto fixed with tape, so I'll be using it until it dies. Too good a headphone to give up, and better than anything else I have. I do like the On Ear a little more in terms of immersion (moar bass), but that's a flavor thing.


----------



## Mackem

Right guys,
  
 I currently have a Xonar DG but it doesn't play very nicely with my low impedance earbuds. I was just wondering what portable amp would be good for 16 Ohm IEMs and 64 Ohm headphones? Obviously something with breathing room would be good (i.e. I decide to get a 250 Ohm pair of headphones in the future or something). Any suggestions? More of a music question than games but I do both really.


----------



## motorwayne

change is good said:


> Nothing too fancy, just a cheap retermination for a detachable cable. The hanging entry is longer than I anticipated, but its best so it won't always be rubbing against the cup....


 
 Hey, where did you order your pads from? The New Zealand reps aren't going to place an order until mid March and then it could be on back order, and then it would take 6 weeks! Gingos!
  
 Cheers


----------



## Change is Good

motorwayne said:


> Hey, where did you order your pads from? The New Zealand reps aren't going to place an order until mid March and then it could be on back order, and then it would take 6 weeks! Gingos!
> 
> Cheers


 
  
 I'm in the US, ordered them from Frank at AKG in California. They, unfortunately, don't ship internationally...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> So I got my A30s in. Definitely better. It no longer sounds completely anemic and one sided. Still I'd take the Slyr over the A30s any day of the week. The A30s don't even remotely come close to the DNA On Ear, which is basically a huge improvement in every single aspect, from what I'm hearing. Still, it's gonna take me some time to get to reviewing these. I'll be starting my DNA On Ear review soon.
> 
> Now having the BoomPro, the DNA just makes a clear choice over the A30s for me. Obviously completely different price ranges, but there's no reason for me to own the A30s. They work, and I'll probably sell them for cheap.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Looks like you gotcha hands full for a while. i'll wait before surprising you, then...


----------



## Change is Good

Matrix M-stage 2012 version with USB DAC for only $209?!? That's a STEAL!!!
  
http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Matrix M-stage 2012 version with USB DAC for only $209?!? That's a STEAL!!!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Matrix-M-Stage-Headphone-Amplifier-USB/dp/B00775POZW


 
 Isn't there a newer version of that DAC or is it the newest revision? Also, the listing says 2011. Is that wrong?


----------



## chicolom

acerackham said:


> Hey guys wondering if someone could shed some light on a few things for me, tried sifting through the previous posts for an answer but can't really find anything. I'm a bit new to the headphone scene recently bought a pair of AKG K545's from Amazon due to a sale in the UK. Wanted to get a mix amp and use this with my ps4 but as far as I'm aware I would need to get a seperate mic such as the Zalman or Modmic.
> 
> Few questions:
> 1. Is it not possible to use the mic cable that comes with the headphones for voice chat or is that not compatible? As I understand the V moda mic acts much in the same way being a cable use instead of the normal headphone cable
> ...


 
  
  
 Don't get the Zalman.  It stopped being recommend ages ago as it's not that good.  There are mic recommendations on the front page.
  
 1.  If your headphones came with an inline mic cable you can try using that, although the mic probably won't be spetactular.
  
 2.  I _believe_ the mixamp comes with a Y adapter.  It used to at least.
  
 3.  Not sure about the mic settings as I don't have a PS4, but the audio output needs to be Dolby Digital 5.1 (via optical) to the mixamp in order to get surround.
  
 4.  The DSS2 doesn't use Dolby Headphone, it uses a different surround DSP which - FWIR - isn't as good as Dolby Headphone.  The Mixamp and _the original_ DSS both use Dolby Headphone and thus sound pretty much the same.  Mixamp is better if you use chat a lot, DSS if you don't.


----------



## conquerator2

roguegeek said:


> Isn't there a newer version of that DAC or is it the newest revision? Also, the listing says 2011. Is that wrong?




It's the old model with the old DAC
the new 2014 comes with an improved DAC section the amp section is almost identical (might be completely)
This one's DAC section is not that great compared to the newer one's.


----------



## Acerackham

Thanks a bunch, still learning how to navigate the site! Will most likely get the V Moda BoomPro though it is fairly difficult to get V Moda accessory products in the UK but it seems like the best option for what I'm looking for. Hopefully have the 2013 Mixamp by the end of the week with a mic and the K545's and test how it works.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> It's the old model with the old DAC
> the new 2014 comes with an improved DAC section the *amp section is almost identical (might be completely)*
> This one's DAC section is not that great compared to the newer one's.




Which in point is why I think the older version at 209 is a steal... even with its mediocre DAC. One can always add a better standalone DAC, down the road.

And yes, 2011... I have the 2012 but it looks identical to mine (vents on the sides).


----------



## ShootBang

Is the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X worth it? I want to get a good headphone for gaming and music.


----------



## mikaveli06

those of u using yamaha silent cinema for ps4....what are mic options?  I have vmoda boom pro and phillips x1


----------



## widdyjudas

Just wanted to make sure with the xonar DGX.
 Is the DH effect only available via analog output, or the optic out also? Since I'm only connecting the DGX to the Aune dac via Optic out.


----------



## conquerator2

Can anyone verify that the PX5 receiver uses DH? Can't really find that anywhere though the description seems similar to the DSS.
  
 Product page: http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/ps3-headsets/ear-force-px5/51
 Manual: http://cdn-assets.turtlebeach.com/products/51/PX5%20User%20Guide-web.pdf
  
 Thanks!


----------



## iamstumper

conquerator2please see the following page for dolby headphone verification 

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/product/gaming/headset/turtle-beach-ear-force-px5.html


----------



## conquerator2

iamstumper said:


> @conquerator2please see the following page for dolby headphone verification
> 
> http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/product/gaming/headset/turtle-beach-ear-force-px5.html


 
 Woo, amazing! Thanks! I was expecting this but wasn't sure... a great checklist website. good Dolby.
 Sucks the PX5 is not sold separately though... I mean it's probably discontinued now anyway, but it is a nice unit. Should have been offered separately.
 Thanks again. Cheers!


----------



## kcazbarach

evshrug said:


> Pretty...
> 
> On another note, I've hooked up my Yamaha again. First, the amp in this is pretty nice... Not detecting any treble fatigue in my k712's (with Q701 pads) and power delivery is smooth. Well, sometimes it seems like the bass is clipping a little... But that could just be the downloadable Guardians of Light. Halo: Reach is as good as I remembered this way, with my now-knowledge of Dolby Headphone it does indeed sound very similar, though the "standard" movie DSP has a bit more reverb and basically is what I'd imagine DH mode 3 to be like. You can adjust the strength of Silent Cinema's surround effect, so it's like a more granular adjustment between DH Mode 1, 2, and 3. Very much a "Dolby headphone" clone. Haven't fiddled with every single setting yet. For example, I wonder what happens if I apply Dolby Pro llz to a 5.1 DDL signal?
> 
> The most evident thing, however, was getting used to the TV here... It's a 55" LED 3D "Smart TV" by Panasonic, I turned on game mode and as many enhancements as I could to "off;" I can't actually "see" a delay, I just can't pull off the super-fast aim adjustments as frequently as I could using a VGA cable to my monitor. It's also hard to understate the effect of going from sitting in front of a 20" monitor to trying to find the optimal distance (sitting on a table, lol) to take in a 55" screen and not be overwhelmed by the sheer scale of what you're taking in. It definitely has intensely good picture quality though. Call me weird... but I may have to switch to my smaller 42" plasma, once I get that set up (somewhere).




Input lag is usually more on the big tvs than for
Monitors. Id suggest u do single player on ur plasma and multiplayer on ur monitor. Thia is coming from a guy who got his 50 in halo 3 on a 37 inch led. Vga was a night and day improvement


----------



## Evshrug

mikaveli06 said:


> those of u using yamaha silent cinema for ps4....what are mic options?  I have vmoda boom pro and phillips x1



Well, IMO the VMODA BoomPro provides little if any convenience in that situation.

I don't have a PS4 yet, but I think you need to route chat/mic audio to the controller. You're gonna need a Y-Split adapter, with extensions for the "game audio" to come from the receiver and a short extension for the "mic input" to go to the controller.

Honestly, I think it would be less mess to have a separate lapel mic to just plug straight into the controller (or a Bluetooth mic?), and a nice long cable for audio between your headphone and AVR.



change is good said:


> Looks like you gotcha hands full for a while. i'll wait before surprising you, then...






I thought Mad wouldn't be reviewing headphones for a while anyway, because he couldn't afford to ship them back? So... maybe it's open season anyway 

Side note: what are ya playing on PS4? I finished filing my taxes last week, refund check should be soon on the way...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the DNAs were 'given' to me, and calpis was nice enough to give me the HS15. Nothing to ship back, lol. As for the A30s, you know I bought those with the 5.8 a while ago, but just got them back from being RMA'd.

As for my dire situation, my friend came through and got me a roommate. Literally, last few days before I was moving out. So it looks like I'll have my place until at least the lease is over in Sept. 

I still needed the money to pay off the share of stuff my old roommate skipped out on, so selling the MA900 was a wise choice.

I currently just beat Strider on ps4.


----------



## Evshrug

kcazbarach said:


> Input lag is usually more on the big tvs than for
> Monitors. Id suggest u do single player on ur plasma and multiplayer on ur monitor. Thia is coming from a guy who got his 50 in halo 3 on a 37 inch led. Vga was a night and day improvement



Oh, hi there!
Lol you posted right when I came back.
The huge LED 3D Smart TV I was talking about is at my new place, it belongs to my roommate (but he shares). I got the input lag down a fair bit by turning off a bunch of processing then switching on Game Mode, but it still processes stuff in the background and I know that my Plasma does it more simply and better. Wish there was a 24" plasma monitor with DisplayPort input... talk about refresh rate potential! Probably never gonna happen  I suppose I could hook my VGA cable to the plasma too... it's not a very high-quality cable though, makes a difference for these analogue signals.

On Halo 3, I got stuck on rank 38. Since then, however, I've gotten a little better with my positioning and tactical decisions.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
I know how ya got those A30's 
Mine should arrive back on Monday, tbh I intended to give them to my friend's girlfriend so she'd have something more comfortable than malfunctioning Trittons and the three of us could play. Or, perhaps, sell them. Yeah, I still need to sell one of my AKG's; though I could probably recoup most of the money I spent on my K712's and the two headphones don't seem that different to me... I think the Q701 might be the one to go, I prefer the K712's mids presentation. I'm waiting on one factor to make my decision though 

How was Strider? I know nothing about it besides the name, and the cover art I saw on Steam.

Super glad to hear your ex-roommie found a way to not totally leave you in a bad bind, always glad to hear proof that people mean well.


----------



## Acerackham

daddydc650 said:


> I wanted to give a quick update on my Astro wireless mixamp, X1 + BoomPro setup. I installed a rechargeable battery about 2 weeks ago and charged it to max capacity. I've been gaming on my PS4 at least an hour a day and the battery has yet to die. Amazing battery life compared to 3 AAA batteries which lasted almost 3 hours max! Wow! BTW, X1 + BoomPro + Astro wireless mixamp = amazing. If Sony releases a firmware update that raises the chat volume when using the USB PS3/PC chat cable, this setup will be perfect.


 
 Do you have the BoomPro connected directly to the headphone port of the mixamp to provide surround sound and mic capabilities? Or do you have a connection to the ps4 controller as well? Thinking about getting the mixamp and the BoomPro and wondering how it is connected for surround sound and mic


----------



## Marcus007

Does anyone knows if by using a fidelio X1 + boom pro mic + mixamp I will get voice chat to work on PS4 and XB1? I have an old 2009 mixamp and AD700 for the past 4-5 years. Over 5000 hours of use by now. How would that old configuration compare with my "possible" new one? Would it be a clear improvement or just marginal? Main use is games and movies/TV.
  
 Initially I bought the mixamp and the AD700 with FPS games in mind but ended up using for everything, movies, TV series, music and games. Only problem I got was that I have never really found a good mic solution. My mixamp didn't come with the Y adapter so it took a while for me to get my hands in one (I live abroad and importation is costly and slow). Then I bought a madcatz modern warfare mic that never really worked. I bought another generic mic, also money down the drain. Never found out if the problem was with the mics I bought, the Y adapter or my mixamp. On my PS3 I circumvented this problem using the official wireless mono headset from sony and bypassed the whole split cable in the mixamp problem. Used the H7 as a mic, worked great with the mixamp and AD700. But on my Xbox 360 I ended up using the systems crappy H7 for 6 years straight, never got a workaround. 
  
 If I use the V bomm pro and the X1 along with the mixamp would I still have to use the Y spliter for voice chat? Or will the mixamp treat the X1 just like another astro headset (voice and sound in a single cable)? 
  
 Also, is it worth upgrading my mixamp to a newer one? I noticed the new ones have firmware upgrades and all.
  
 Appreciate any and all help...thanks guys.


----------



## chicolom

widdyjudas said:


> Just wanted to make sure with the xonar DGX.
> Is the DH effect only available via analog output, or the optic out also? Since I'm only connecting the DGX to the Aune dac via Optic out.


 
  
 FWIR it works on optical as well.


----------



## Dannek

First, let me say thanks for the great thread here, from Mad Lust Envy to the contributors it's been an eye opening experience reading and learning from it.
  
 I'm looking for a new pair of headphones or a headset that will be primarily used for PC gaming.  I've read this thread and the review threads on each model I've listed below and I'm stuck on making a final decision.
  
 Can you guys help me with a recommendation between these three headphones/sets that I've read about in this thread?  I'd greatly appreciate it.
  
 1.) Sennheiser PC360 - It's a headset so I don't have to buy a mic.  Lowest price.
  
 2.) Fidelio X1 - This was a tough choice between the X1 and the Q701.  After reading the threads on both headphones, I chose the X1's as they seem better for immersive gaming and fun factor.  The Q701's are reportedly better for competitive gaming, but I'm not a pro player by any means.
  
 3.) Sony MA900 - These seem highly praised and I included them as they seem to be the lightest and possibly more comfortable? than the others.  What irks me about these is that they've been discontinued and the price has risen from $180. to $240. presently.  I still consider them at that price as they seem to be a favorite.
  
 For either of the last two I would get a mic for gaming. Vmoda, Antlion, or Sampson.

 I was also looking at "on ear" lightweight headphones like the Sennheiser Amperiors, but I don't know if the comfort level would be greater than the ones I listed above and I'm afraid the sound quality wouldn't be up to the ones that I listed.
  
 Please help me choose..


----------



## prankies

Howdy, I'm finally back and can give a short report on my experience upgrading from a Xonar DG with a ATH-AD700 to a Fidelio X1 with a Sound Blaster Z OEM.
  
 First, I'll talk about the difference between sound cards.  I find Creative's proprietary surround emulation modes to be better than the Xonar's (Dolby Headphone), but to be honest I don't really like using either one.  The "Scout Mode" on the SBZ might give a tiny competitive advantage, but I don't find it to be enough of one to deal with the worsened sound quality.  It doesn't feel like a larger sound stage, just a more directionally obvious one (at the cost of some precious ambient/immersive effects).  Dolby Headphone on the DG just sounds like crap to me, so it isn't even an option.  Any gain in directional cues/soundstage to me is negligible on either headphone.  In basic 2-channel without any surround emulation, I find both headphones to be incredible for competitive first person shooters on both sound cards.  I can hear above/below/behind me without any problem, and even multiple sources of sound from different directions are clearly simultaneously rendered by both sets of headphones and both soundcards without any surround emulation/7.1/DH/CMSS3D/Scout mode or whatever.  I am most pleased by the standard stereo setting in all possible scenarios.
  
 So at the end of the day, I found the SBZ to be louder and more full/bassy on both sets of headphones thanks to its more powerful headphone amp.  Games are more fun, though I didn't experience much of a difference competitively.  Maybe a slight positional edge to the SBZ, again thanks to the stronger amp giving more separation between sounds.  I do really like Creative's software package (as ugly as it is), though I wish it had the headphone gain selection options that the Xonar offers.  For $56 shipped, the SBZ OEM drives my X1s a little harder than the $20-30 DG.
  
 For music, the SBZ's bass is more fun, but might drown out a tinge of detail as a result.  It was hard to compare the two cards in a quick/simple/objective fashion, though, so this could be imagination.
  
 Now to compare going from the AD700 to the X1s:
  
 Sound:
  
 The most obvious change is in the bass (no s*%&?).  I actually enjoy several genres of music again and went out of my way to download several new albums to enjoy the X1s.  The bass has more range and is more powerful.  I also find the X1s much less fatiguing at high volume, and more forgiving of low quality recordings.  All of these factors give the X1s way more versatility than the AD700s, even though the AD700s remain beautiful for the few genres they work for, sound stage can only get you so far for music.  
  
 For gaming, I find I lose almost no competitive advantage going to the X1s from the AD700s.  The soundstage on the X1 might not be as airy/lofty as the AD700s, but individual sounds are more defined and more "present" in their own space.  Heavy action on the X1s is absolutely beautiful: fun, loud, and assaulting, but highly detailed and separated.  Best of all, you give up almost nothing in terms of directional cues/positioning/surround to achieve it.  There has never been a moment where I died and said "Dang, if I were wearing my AD700s I would have lived!"  If anything, the immersion of the X1s gets me even more focused on the game.
  
 For isolation, the X1 has a much better seal.  With the AD700s, you can hear EVERYTHING outside.  The X1s actually do a remarkable job of sealing you off for an open can.  My wife has been quite annoyed a few times at her inability to get my attention while wearing the X1s.  That said, the X1s also carry noise extremely far.  At 50% volume, I can hear them as clear as a radio across the house.  Don't wear these next to a sleeping partner!
  
 Comfort and Build Quality:
  
 For my enormous head, I honestly still prefer my AD700s.  The X1s are hotter, have a bit more clamp, and are heavier on my head.  That said, they are both fantastically comfortable and have been worn for 8+ hour gaming sessions.  I'm just worried about sweaty ears with the X1s come summer time.
  
 The X1s win the build quality contest hands down.  The AD700s feel hollow by comparison.  Style goes to the X1 as well.
  
 At the end of the day, would I buy it all again?  Well, the X1s basically rekindled a love of music for me, so I'm not sure how much of a price you can put on that.  My games are also dramatically more enjoyable, and considering that is my #1 hobby, it's hard to put a price on that, as well.  I will say that at this point in time I have no intention of returning them, and will likely consider selling the AD700s, as I see no single advantage they have over the X1s (of which there are very few) being worth putting them on instead of the X1s.  Comfort in a hot summer room might be a worthy exception, though, as the AD700s remain the most cool/comfortable headset that I have personally ever worn.
  
 Going from the DG to the SBZ is more of a mixed bag.  Neither of my headphones require much of an amp, so the change in sound wasn't particularly dramatic, though my cognitive dissonance tells me that the SBZ gave me some extra power (which might be even more felt if you have a headphone that is harder to drive than either of these).  There is more bass on my non-EQed SBZ than there is on my EQed DG, and the SBZ pushes the X1s sound stage a bit further out (while making no real difference on the AD700s).  Since the price difference here is only $20-30 and I like the SBZ's software more, then yeah, I'd probably get the SBZ again even though I don't use either company's surround emulation.  The X1s benefit from the touch of extra juice.
  
 TL;DR: X1 made me fall in love with music again and made my games a lot more fun.  SBZ is a small improvement over the DG for both headsets, mostly in the bass department.  I am very happy with the upgrade, but wife is not as happy about the extra time I waste at the computer unable to hear her from the other room.


----------



## prankies

dannek said:


> First, let me say thanks for the great thread here, from Mad Lust Envy to the contributors it's been an eye opening experience reading and learning from it.
> 
> I'm looking for a new pair of headphones or a headset that will be primarily used for PC gaming.  I've read this thread and the review threads on each model I've listed below and I'm stuck on making a final decision.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am biased in steering you toward the X1.  I think you'll find it a lot more fun than the 360 without sacrificing much competitive advantage.  I haven't heard the MA900, but I would inch the X1s a notch above them in overall quality from what I've heard around here.  The MA900s are fantastic, but the X1s definitely have a build quality more deserving of their price.  The MA900 has inflated a bit, while the X1s have come down.  Since they're both currently the same price, I would take the X1s as a better value.  If you can pick up the MA900s for significantly cheaper than the X1s, then they sound like an amazing value.  For the same price, the X1s seem like an obvious choice for their build quality (and they are also much easier to find from reputable retailers).
  
 They have a lot of similarities, so it would be hard to go wrong with either one.


----------



## widdyjudas

chicolom said:


> FWIR it works on optical as well.


 
 Thanks for the reply, because I only see the headphone option via analog on the DGX audio center.


----------



## Dannek

prankies said:


> I am biased in steering you toward the X1.  I think you'll find it a lot more fun than the 360 without sacrificing much competitive advantage.  I haven't heard the MA900, but I would inch the X1s a notch above them in overall quality from what I've heard around here.  The MA900s are fantastic, but the X1s definitely have a build quality more deserving of their price.  The MA900 has inflated a bit, while the X1s have come down.  Since they're both currently the same price, I would take the X1s as a better value.  If you can pick up the MA900s for significantly cheaper than the X1s, then they sound like an amazing value.  For the same price, the X1s seem like an obvious choice for their build quality (and they are also much easier to find from reputable retailers).
> 
> They have a lot of similarities, so it would be hard to go wrong with either one.


 

 Thanks Prankies.
  
 I think after more consideration and based on what you stated, that I may eliminate the MA900's from my list.  Since they've been discontinued with no replacement, and the price has inflated quite a bit, I'd feel as if I made the wrong choice unless they blew away the X1's, which have come down in price considerably.  At this time, there is only one seller on Amazon that has the MA900's for $239, and that's not a major retailer.  The rest are companies that ship from Japan and charge $250.  The only major US retailer lists them at $298.!!  I think from what I've read the X1's are a better value than the MA900's at the same price point.
  
 I still like the review of the PC360 by Mad Lust Envy for gaming at their low price point, which is now $166.  But for a few dollars more, I can get a pair of HD598's and a mic.  I'm not sure which way to go between those or the X1's.  If the X1's warrant the increased price, I'd go for them as they are in my budget.  I'm also concerned that the 5 series Sennheisers may sound a lot like the Q701's, with less bass than the X1's, and lacking the fun factor of the X1.  I'd appreciate it if anyone else who has any of the headphones listed above could chime in with their thoughts.  I'd greatly appreciate it.  If you read this Mad Lust, and could chime in, I'd really appreciate it as I know you've had all three on my list.  Thanks again.


----------



## DADDYDC650

acerackham said:


> Do you have the BoomPro connected directly to the headphone port of the mixamp to provide surround sound and mic capabilities? Or do you have a connection to the ps4 controller as well? Thinking about getting the mixamp and the BoomPro and wondering how it is connected for surround sound and mic


 
 I have the BoomPro connected directly to the mixamp as well as the TB PS4 chat cable. I have the USB PS3/PC chat cable that connects from the PS4 to the Astro TX unit but I find the chat volume to be a little too low compared to using the TB PS4 chat cable. Hopefully Sony will provide an update that raises the chat volume via a USB connection.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You could alsays sell that cable to me...


----------



## FruityGayGuy

Quick question about the V-Moda Boom Pro:
  
 Can I use a female to female 3.5mm adapter to use the Boom Pro with a Superlux headphone? They (Superlux) use a 3.5mm male jack as a removable cable option.
  
 So something like Superlux headphone -> 3.5mm female to female adapter -> Boom Pro


----------



## benbenkr

Well guys, I've found an alternative to the mic situation for PS4 users.
  
 Use this - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004XC6KHS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=154M20SNQDZHD&coliid=I259I03CRCINJ3
  
 Plug it straight into the DS4, problem solved. No fumbling with cables, no headaches with splitters.
 Downside is of course, you can't mute when you want and it does pick up noises when you are mashing on the face buttons or rapidly moving the analog stick.
  
 Not my pic, but this is  how it looks:
  

  
 It's only $25, so that puts it in the same price point as the BoomPro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That would pick up way too much ambient noise, and I have a fan that runs 24/7 in my room. Not quiet.


----------



## chicolom

dannek said:


> Thanks Prankies.
> 
> I think after more consideration and based on what you stated, that I may eliminate the MA900's from my list.  Since they've been discontinued with no replacement, and the price has inflated quite a bit, I'd feel as if I made the wrong choice unless they blew away the X1's, which have come down in price considerably.  At this time, there is only one seller on Amazon that has the MA900's for $239, and that's not a major retailer.  The rest are companies that ship from Japan and charge $250.  The only major US retailer lists them at $298.!!  I think from what I've read the X1's are a better value than the MA900's at the same price point.
> 
> I still like the review of the PC360 by Mad Lust Envy for gaming at their low price point, which is now $166.  But for a few dollars more, I can get a pair of HD598's and a mic.  I'm not sure which way to go between those or the X1's.  If the X1's warrant the increased price, I'd go for them as they are in my budget.  I'm also concerned that the 5 series Sennheisers may sound a lot like the Q701's, with less bass than the X1's, and lacking the fun factor of the X1.  I'd appreciate it if anyone else who has any of the headphones listed above could chime in with their thoughts.  I'd greatly appreciate it.  If you read this Mad Lust, and could chime in, I'd really appreciate it as I know you've had all three on my list.  Thanks again.


 
  
  
  
  
 The Q701 has less bass than the X1, and the HD5x5/PC360 has less bass than the Q701.  In terms of fun, it's also:  X1  >  Q701  >  HD5x/PC360.
  
  
 The X1 is staying down at ~$230 now, which is a nice price for it and a good value.  When I bought my pair, they were $315.
  
 I'd just get the X1.


----------



## pack21

If X1 has more bass than MA900, for my taste the bass on MA900 is at limit of what I consider the ideal place for fun gaming and watching movies, neither more nor less. 

 I'm loving MA900 and worth every penny i spent, the initial resale price was a steal for Sony. I find  strange someone decline a headphones just because the price is no longer a steal, or have been discontinued, or just because it hasn't a premium look when they are.


----------



## souske sagara

has anyone tried the Sony DR-GA200 with the astro mixamp. I was wondering what this setup would sound like. 



Specifications for sony DR-GA200
Cord: 2.5 m (8.20 ft) / Plug: Gold-plated stereo mini plug (headphone plug/ microphone
plug) / Mass: Approx. 240 g (8.40 oz) (without cord)

Type: Open air, dynamic / Driver unit: 40 mm, dome type (CCAW adopted) / Power
handling capacity: 1,000 mW (IEC*) / Impedance: 40 Ω at 1 kHz / Sensitivity: 100 dB/
mW / Frequency response: 14 – 22,000 Hz

Design: Boom microphone / Type: Electret condenser / Open circuit voltage level: –38
dB (0 dB = 1 V/Pa) / Effective frequency range: 20 – 20,000 Hz


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, the Astro A30s may be my first bad review in awhile. Bad imaging with really bad rear depth... just... I don't think this is gonna be pretty.


----------



## prankies

pack21 said:


> If X1 has more bass than MA900, for my taste the bass on MA900 is at limit of what I consider the ideal place for fun gaming and watching movies, neither more nor less.
> 
> I'm loving MA900 and worth every penny i spent, the initial resale price was a steal for Sony. I find  strange someone decline a headphones just because the price is no longer a steal, or have been discontinued, or just because it hasn't a premium look when they are.


 
 I don't think anyone here would argue about the MA900s being amazing.  Even at their current price point, they are a good deal.  But the X1s have a lot of the same gaming strengths as the MA900s (a good bass to soundstage ratio, easy to drive, comfortable, great for music) as well as a MUCH nicer build quality (the MA900s are basically two massive drivers held together by a strip of plastic, while the X1s are absolutely gorgeous and have a premium feel).
  
 The MA900 is also almost impossible to find from a reputable retailer now.  You are limited to eBay listings and overpriced import sites.  The X1s can be picked up straight from Amazon or a variety of other major retailers.
  
 When both headphones sell at their retail price (MA900 for <$200, X1 for >$300), then the MA900 is a great deal and a great option.  But now that the MA900s can't be found for under $240 (from shady retailers with slow/expensive shipping, no less) while the X1s are actually CHEAPER <$230 from quality retailers with cheap/fast shipping, a lot of people would say that the X1s are a better value at this snapshot in time.
  
 So it's awesome that you love your MA900s--they are an AMAZING headphone and I wish I had a pair to try out.  But from the opinions of several in the thread, all other things being equal the X1 is a slightly better deal for most people right this second, mostly due to pricing/availability (and the fact that the X1 is just an incredible headphone).


----------



## Mackem

MLE, I'll be able to confirm for definite whether the BoomPro works with the M-Audio Q40 when it arrives later this week.


----------



## Dannek

chicolom said:


> The Q701 has less bass than the X1, and the HD5x5/PC360 has less bass than the Q701.  In terms of fun, it's also:  X1  >  Q701  >  HD5x/PC360.
> 
> 
> The X1 is staying down at ~$230 now, which is a nice price for it and a good value.  When I bought my pair, they were $315.
> ...


 

 Heyas Chicolom.
  
 Thanks much for your input.  I had the chance earlier today to demo some headphones at my local magnolia/bestbuy and agree with you completely based on what I was able to demo. 
  
 I don't want to derail this thread with a full assessment of the different headphones that I tried out, as this is a gaming headphone thread and I was just doing general listening with them, not gaming.

 But I will say that I did rule out the "on ear" style of headphone.  I was able to try a few B&W on ear style as well as both the Sennheiser Momentum on ear and over the ear styles.  I just didn't like the fit of the on ear models even with their low weight.
  
 I was able to listen to these models: Sennheiser 558, Sennheiser Momentum (over ear and on ear), AKG K550, Denon AH-D600, a few B&W on ear models, and some noise cancelling full size that I can't remember the name of as I've never heard of the brand before.
  
 The end result was that I now see the night and day difference between headphones whose tuning makes them perfect for gaming, the PC360, 558, and the K550.  And the headphones whose tuning makes them pretty good for gaming but more fun for general listening, like the Momentum and the Denon D600.  From what I've read, I'd put the X1's in the latter category.  Although I am aware that many people think that the X1's are very unique for an open full size headphone.
  
 If I had the money, I'd probably get the PC360 just for gaming, as it's slightly more than the 558, slightly less than the Q701 plus mic, and is a complete and competent headset ready to go.  Then I'd get the X1's for listening to my collection of Digital Audio Tapes and general listening.  I may do just that in the future when my tax return comes in, but for now I need to focus on just one, so I'm leaning toward the X1's as they can server both purposes very well with a mic and are at a very nice price point. 

 Thanks again.


----------



## chicolom

dannek said:


> Heyas Chicolom.
> 
> Thanks much for your input.  I had the chance earlier today to demo some headphones at my local magnolia/bestbuy and agree with you completely based on what I was able to demo.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 If I owned both the X1 and PC360, the PC360 wouldn't get much if any use.  I think you would probably find that to be the case as well.  The X1 is objectively a better headphone in terms of detail and sound quality, plus the signature is noticeably more fun - the PC360 can be a bit flat and boring at times (has a bit of an "n" shaped signature.
  
 What makes the X1s special is that they combine a fun warmer signature (with big bass) alongside a spacious soundstage with good imaging, which is a rare thing for a headphone to pull off.
  
 The X1 also works well with mics thanks to it's detachable cable input.  Here's a cheap boom mic you can hook up to it.


----------



## prankies

dannek said:


> Heyas Chicolom.
> 
> Thanks much for your input.  I had the chance earlier today to demo some headphones at my local magnolia/bestbuy and agree with you completely based on what I was able to demo.
> 
> ...


 
 I really don't think you'll be at much of a loss for competitive gaming with the X1s.  I have been playing Counterstrike since beta 1 (sounds like a freakish exaggeration, but totally true!  At the time there were only two maps, siege and desert, and the knife wouldn't be invented for another 3 betas!) and "in my prime" played in CAL-Invite as well as several LAN tournaments for prizes.  I'm not calling myself a "pro", but I was about as close as it gets short of being one of the 50 people on earth who genuinely make a somewhat comfortable living as a gamer.  I'm not as competitive as I used to be, but I'm still pretty obsessed with all things first person shooter, and I do not take kindly to being at a disadvantage in my games.
  
 I only bring all of this up to say that the X1s are no slouch for competitive gaming.  Their soundstage and detail is so good that I would rank them above 95% of what the headphone world has to offer in terms of headphones that give a competitive advantage.  The remaining 5% mostly consists of insanely neutral and detail-oriented sets like the AD700, which honestly don't provide a SIGNIFICANT competitive edge, just a tiny, tiny bit of an edge in positioning on certain sounds, much of which can be eliminated with a bit of EQ adjustment if you want.  I guess there are a couple of headphones like the MA900 that are genuine overall competition for the X1s for fun/competitive balance, but I haven't heard them to compare.
  
 I don't want you to feel like you are "giving up" much going with the X1s.  You will still know exactly where all of your enemies are, and will still have a huge advantage over all the kids sporting their $50-100 Logitech/Razer "gaming headset" garbage.  There are only a handful of headphones in the world that would have any real edge over the X1s in gaming, and it's never going to be the difference between you winning and losing a game (or even a single round), and you would have to give up a lot of other sound elements to get that miniscule edge (I say this as an owner of AD700s, largely considered to be the most competitively advantageous set of headphones: I have no reason to wear the AD700s now that I have the X1s).
  
 I honestly think if you have the X1 for a while and then got the 360s down the road that you might be disappointed with how flat they are compared to the X1s while not really offering you that much more directional awareness in gaming.  It's all subjective, of course, and you're going to daydream of owning every pair of headphones out there anyways, but don't for a second feel a tinge of regret for your competitive gaming needs.  The X1s will be amazing for them.


----------



## Dannek

pack21 said:


> If X1 has more bass than MA900, for my taste the bass on MA900 is at limit of what I consider the ideal place for fun gaming and watching movies, neither more nor less.
> 
> I'm loving MA900 and worth every penny i spent, the initial resale price was a steal for Sony. I find  strange someone decline a headphones just because the price is no longer a steal, or have been discontinued, or just because it hasn't a premium look when they are.


 

 Heya Pack21.

 Thanks for your input. 
  
 I should have been more specific.  I did initially leave the MA900's on my list even after I saw that their price had risen from $180. to $240. in the US.  I know they are very highly regarded so I was still considering them.  I never had any concerns about their looks, as i thought they looked neat and they were described as very comfortable.  After reading everything I could on the X1's, I did read some comparisons between the two from people who had owned or tried both.  Each person said they were very close in total sound quality, but in each case those posters picked the X1's as their choice.  Based on that, and the fact that the price of the MA900's had risen considerably while the price of the X1's had dropped considerably, I just decided that for me the value was better with the X1's with both headphones being at the same price point.  The discontinuation issue doesn't bother me as Sony will still support them, just that the discontinuation lead to the major price increase that we are now seeing.  If I had all kinds of money I'd probably get them just because they "have" been discontinued, and if they are really nice it may be my last chance to get them new.  But for me, I think that some day I will probably buy a pair of them used to see how nice they are, when I have the cash to do so.


----------



## Dannek

Heya Chicolom.
  
 Thank you very much for the additional input.  Based on what you and prankies have stated in back to back posts, I agree that both sets aren't the best decision from a value and usage point of view.  The X1's are apparently better than I thought for gaming, and will suit me much better for listening to my Digital Audio Tapes and general music.  Have you tried the MA900's by any chance? and if so how do you think they compare to the X1's at the same price point?
 Thanks for the mic suggestion as well.  I'd only read about the Vmoda BoomPro as an inline option up to this point...
  
  
 Heya prankies.
  
 Thanks for the additional information you provided.  You and Chicolom have a great knowledge of the X1's from both a gaming and general usage perspective and I appreciate your advice greatly.  I thank you both for saving me money by helping me decide on one pair of headphones instead of getting two which obviously wouldn't benefit me in any way for what I want to use them for.  That's more money that I will have down the road for a sound card, amp/dac, or another really nice set of headphones if this becomes a new favorite hobby for me.  (Which I think it will..


----------



## DADDYDC650

mad lust envy said:


> Man, the Astro A30s may be my first bad review in awhile. Bad imaging with really bad rear depth... just... I don't think this is gonna be pretty.


 
 That bad eh? I didn't think they were horrible. I sold them off to my brother for $40. They were just collecting dust.  Anyway, look forward to your review.


----------



## chicolom

dannek said:


> Heya Chicolom.
> 
> Thank you very much for the additional input.  Based on what you and prankies have stated in back to back posts, I agree that both sets aren't the best decision from a value and usage point of view.  The X1's are apparently better than I thought for gaming, and will suit me much better for listening to my Digital Audio Tapes and general music.
> 
> *Have you tried the MA900's by any chance? and if so how do you think they compare to the X1's at the same price point?*


 
  
  
 Yes, I've owned the MA900s.  The strengths of the MA900 are it's nice midrange, balanced sound, and unique soundstage and fit.
  
 They are a nice pair of headphones, but it's a bit hard to recommend them given their current upward price trend.  I got my pair for ~$170, and they compete well against the other sub $200 headphones.  Once you get into the >$225 price bracket though, you start to run into a lot of the big mid-fi cans which are technically a tier up and present some stiff competition for the MA900. 
  
 At the same price I would opt for the X1 over the MA900.  It's _technically _a better headphone, and is more detailed and has a "higher-fi" sound.  It's still possible to subjectively prefer the MA900 to the X1, but for ME I prefer the X1 subjectively as well.


----------



## Sam21

DT990 kills both ma900 and x1 easily.


----------



## chicolom

DT990 killsssszzzzz my earsssszzzz.


----------



## Dannek

chicolom said:


> Yes, I've owned the MA900s.  The strengths of the MA900 are it's nice midrange, balanced sound, and unique soundstage and fit.
> 
> They are a nice pair of headphones, but it's a bit hard to recommend them given their current upward price trend.  I got my pair for ~$170, and they compete well against the other sub $200 headphones.  Once you get into the >$225 price bracket though, you start to run into a lot of the big mid-fi cans which are technically a tier up and present some stiff competition for the MA900.
> 
> At the same price I would opt for the X1 over the MA900.  It's _technically _a better headphone, and is more detailed and has a "higher-fi" sound.  It's still possible to subjectively prefer the MA900 to the X1, but for ME I prefer the X1 subjectively as well.


 

 Thanks man, I really appreciate all the great advice you have given me.


----------



## benbenkr

dannek said:


> Heyas Chicolom.
> 
> Thanks much for your input.  I had the chance earlier today to demo some headphones at my local magnolia/bestbuy and agree with you completely based on what I was able to demo.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I happen to own both the X1 and HD558 currently. 
  
 I can tell you that after a month of using the X1 and HD558 previously, switching back and forth... I have the HD558 back in my box and stashed safely in my cupboard. Why? Because I don't seem to feel or hear the fact that the X1 has any less of a soundstage than the HD558. They are in fact comparable and in some cases, the X1 is airier with better depth. Not to mention the fact that I don't have to deal with almost no-bass on the HD558 anymore, it's a bliss to have the X1.
  
 Now, I do own the HD558 for more than 8 months prior to owning the X1 and it has been my main headphones most of the time. So to switch to the X1 and get all of what the HD558 had to offer and more, that's saying something. Perhaps the only advantage the HD558 has is the more forward mids and peakier highs, both of which would be a better fit for metal or fast music. It isn't by much by the way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sam21 said:


> DT990 kills both ma900 and x1 easily.




990 is a higher end headphone, with the glaring weakness of having an incredibly overstated treble. This alone will turn off the vast majority of people. I like the 990 (I've owned what, 6 of them?), but to be honest, is hard to recommend over the X1 due to its very, very unnatural treble prominence. Beyer is just odd. You'd thi k they've heard all the complaints, and made a 990 with a considerable treble reduction.

The spike is almost entirely at 10khz, so it should be easy to re-tune down to good levels.

The X1 makes the 990 obsolete. Really.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> 990 is a higher end headphone, with the glaring weakness of having an incredibly overstated treble. This alone will turn off the vast majority of people. I like the 990 (I've owned what, 6 of them?), but to be honest, is hard to recommend over the X1 due to its very, very unnatural treble prominence. Beyer is just odd. You'd thi k they've heard all the complaints, and made a 990 with a considerable treble reduction.
> 
> The spike is almost entirely at 10khz, so it should be easy to re-tune down to good levels.
> 
> The X1 makes the 990 obsolete. Really.


 

 True the DT 990 does have a big treble spike, would be nice if they got rid of it. But eq does easily get rid of it.
  
 Have you heard the DT 990 on a tube amp? It really transforms in it's sound on tubes.


----------



## benbenkr

Yes, except not everyone has a hardware EQ which would work for the DT990 when being played on a platform that doesn't have a built-in software EQ — consoles.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Is it confirmed the vmoda boom mice is compatible with all the headsets that the OP posted. I asked on amazons a few weeks ago when I was shopping for the m100s and they said the Custom pro had a proprietary plug, and the boom mic for those would not fit other models either.


----------



## Viceroy

Using: Asus Xonar DGX
 -dolby headphone on
 -max amp setting
  
 Would going from a Sennheiser PC360 to the Fidelio X1 be a downgrade for positional audio?


----------



## Murder Mike

viceroy said:


> Using: Asus Xonar DGX
> -dolby headphone on
> -max amp setting
> 
> Would going from a Sennheiser PC360 to the Fidelio X1 be a downgrade for positional audio?


 
 Read the posts from prankies in the last few pages.


----------



## Viceroy

murder mike said:


> Read the posts from prankies in the last few pages.


 
  
 found them. thanks!
  
  
 2nd question.
 To keep things simple, I would prefer just using just a sound card and avoid external dac/amp
 Main use is FPS games, secondary is music
  
 What would pair up nicely with the X1's? Preferably under $200


----------



## TiTaN

viceroy said:


> Using: Asus Xonar DGX
> -dolby headphone on
> -max amp setting
> 
> Would going from a Sennheiser PC360 to the Fidelio X1 be a downgrade for positional audio?


 
  
 Not at all. I have the AD700 and X1's currently and just tested the MA900, Q701 and PC360 and the PC360 were easily the worst of the bunch in terms of quality and positioning...I was actually shocked at how much better the X1's were.
  
 I originally owned the AD700 and then used Amazon's awesomely easy returns to try out the others and ultimately decided on the X1's. The MA900 were absolutely fantastic but I just couldn't find a good fit and overpaid quite a bit on Amazon for them. When I get some extra cash I'll buy another pair for $150-175. The X1's have the most bass I've personally ever heard in an open headphone and not in a bad way. Some explosions have a lot more punch to them than I'm used to with the AD700, obviously, but the comfort, ease of use with a Vmoda Boom mic and positioning won me over. I love them for EDM and gaming is just stellar.
  
 The Q701 were great as well, but not as fun and honestly I would have needed to spend another $100 easily on an amp to get anything out of them in conjunction with my Astro mixamp on my 360. Plugged into my Asus DG was better but I'm mostly a 360 gamer with my buddies so they weren't worth it for me. The X1's are versatile, comfortable and superb in almost every way and easily worth $250 or less.
  
 You'll be absolutely shocked how much better they are than the PC360. I had the MA900 and Q701 for weeks while trying to figure out which of those and the X1's to keep. The PC360 lasted a single night before they were promptly boxed back up and shipped back to Amazon.
  
 Let me know if you have any specific questions.
  


viceroy said:


> found them. thanks!
> 
> 
> 2nd question.
> ...


 
  
 Just noticed your new post so I thought I'd address these directly. My main use is exactly that of yours, FPS games first, music second. These are perfect for that order. You will not need a standalone amp to get great sound out of these, as the are surprisingly easier to drive than the PC360s were (I have a pocket amp, and when swapping those back and forth I would need to turn the knob quite a bit to get the PC360s to the same volume).
  
 I have almost the same setup as you, (DG is just the PCI version of the DGX) so no worries in comfortably powering them with no standalone amp/dac.
  
 Also, you might list your music preferences so I can comment on what I've listened to with them so far and what I think. They are great with dance/electronic type music as the bass is sublime for an open can, though my personal favorite genre, metal/hard rock, sounds better on some different brands (Grados are my favorite for that).


----------



## Gobhal

Hey guys,
  
 So I bought a mixamp 2013 recently but a friend of mine tossed me his old 2011. So question is should I even keep the 2013 or return it? I noticed MLE recommends the 2011 version but in the review he seems to like the 2013 a lot.
  
 For me I do notice the hiss at times but it is not that bad and mostly goes unnoticed on the 2013.


----------



## TiTaN

chicolom said:


> Yes, I've owned the MA900s.  The strengths of the MA900 are it's nice midrange, balanced sound, and unique soundstage and fit.
> 
> They are a nice pair of headphones, but it's a bit hard to recommend them given their current upward price trend.  I got my pair for ~$170, and they compete well against the other sub $200 headphones.  Once you get into the >$225 price bracket though, you start to run into a lot of the big mid-fi cans which are technically a tier up and present some stiff competition for the MA900.
> 
> At the same price I would opt for the X1 over the MA900.  It's _technically _a better headphone, and is more detailed and has a "higher-fi" sound.  It's still possible to subjectively prefer the MA900 to the X1, but for ME I prefer the X1 subjectively as well.


 
  
 Just got done comparing the X1's and MA900's myself. I had them concurrently for a couple weeks and as I said above, I'd consider purchasing another pair of MA900's for $150-$170 but I wanted to buy one pair now, and the X1's were too good to return. Pop in the Vmoda BoomPro and not have to deal with the antlion modmic and its own cable like I would have to with the MA900s, Perfect.
  
 If only there was a way to slightly dial down the bass a notch when being super competitive in FPS games and I wouldn't even consider buying another headphone until I could afford my beloved RS1+ tube amp or some HD800's and amp. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## Change is Good

gobhal said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> So I bought a mixamp 2013 recently but a friend of mine tossed me his old 2011. So question is should I even keep the 2013 or return it? I noticed MLE recommends the 2011 version but in the review he seems to like the 2013 a lot.
> 
> For me I do notice the hiss at times but it is not that bad and mostly goes unnoticed on the 2013.


 
  
 Hmmm... a free 2011 mixamp or a $130 brand new 2013 mixamp?
  
 Is it really that hard to choose?!?


----------



## Viceroy

titan said:


> Not at all. I have the AD700 and X1's currently and just tested the MA900, Q701 and PC360 and the PC360 were easily the worst of the bunch in terms of quality and positioning...I was actually shocked at how much better the X1's were.
> 
> I originally owned the AD700 and then used Amazon's awesomely easy returns to try out the others and ultimately decided on the X1's. The MA900 were absolutely fantastic but I just couldn't find a good fit and overpaid quite a bit on Amazon for them. When I get some extra cash I'll buy another pair for $150-175. The X1's have the most bass I've personally ever heard in an open headphone and not in a bad way. Some explosions have a lot more punch to them than I'm used to with the AD700, obviously, but the comfort, ease of use with a Vmoda Boom mic and positioning won me over. I love them for EDM and gaming is just stellar.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for your response, very helpful and much appreciated. You stated that they're great with dance/electronic music so I'm pretty much set. thanks again!


----------



## TiTaN

viceroy said:


> Thank you for your response, very helpful and much appreciated. You stated that they're great with dance/electronic music so I'm pretty much set. thanks again!


 
 Please tell me how you feel about them if you end up with a pair. I'm excited to see what you think.


----------



## Gobhal

change is good said:


> Hmmm... a free 2011 mixamp or a $130 brand new 2013 mixamp?
> 
> Is it really that hard to choose?!?


 
 Well, I could always sell the 2011, and it's main headset port has seen better days. Still seems to work well enough as far as I can tell. Plus the 2013 has the EQ settings but honestly I found myself using core mostly and if I read it right on the astro site that means it is untouched.
  
 But yeah sort of thinking to grab a magni/modi instead with the money 
  
 Not to mention they may make a 2014 model with my luck


----------



## Gunnar96

Hello folks,

 I just ordered myself a DT 770 Pro 80Ohms for my computer. I also ordered a Asus Xonar DX card.

 So i am gaming alot , and have been using my G35 for a while now. I got tired of them and buyed a pair of Steelseries 9H yesterday, and i gotta say im not impressed at all .. The sound is not what i was expecting. Low volume (even with the newest realtek sound) and terrible sound overall.

 So, i am actually a audio freak, and have had alot of high end speakers the past years, but i have never though of buying "real" headphones for gaming use (instead of the gaming headsets) .

 So what i am wondering about is what experience you guys have to the DT 770 Pro 80 when it comes to gaming performance? I have read about them all day, and i can only find good stuff.  I cant even imagen how this headset will perform on Skyrim, BF4 e.t.c.

 Like i said, ive already ordered them, but i just want to see if anyone else here use them for gaming, and can tell theire experience.

 Thanks ,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Is it confirmed the vmoda boom mice is compatible with all the headsets that the OP posted. I asked on amazons a few weeks ago when I was shopping for the m100s and they said the Custom pro had a proprietary plug, and the boom mic for those would not fit other models either.




M100 works with the boompro, considering its the headphone shown WITH the Boompro...

Dont trust the shady answers given on Amazon...


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

mad lust envy said:


> M100 works with the boompro, considering its the headphone shown WITH the Boompro...
> 
> Dont trust the shady answers given on Amazon...



I said custom pro. As in I was told the Benerdymanic Custom Pro cans had a propriety plug with a little prong on it.
I re-read the OPs post and he says that the cans he has listed he personally tested. So yeah I will take his word for it.


----------



## Dannek

benbenkr said:


> Well, I happen to own both the X1 and HD558 currently.
> 
> I can tell you that after a month of using the X1 and HD558 previously, switching back and forth... I have the HD558 back in my box and stashed safely in my cupboard. Why? Because I don't seem to feel or hear the fact that the X1 has any less of a soundstage than the HD558. They are in fact comparable and in some cases, the X1 is airier with better depth. Not to mention the fact that I don't have to deal with almost no-bass on the HD558 anymore, it's a bliss to have the X1.
> 
> Now, I do own the HD558 for more than 8 months prior to owning the X1 and it has been my main headphones most of the time. So to switch to the X1 and get all of what the HD558 had to offer and more, that's saying something. Perhaps the only advantage the HD558 has is the more forward mids and peakier highs, both of which would be a better fit for metal or fast music. It isn't by much by the way.


 

 Hey benbenkr.
  
 Thanks for the reply.  I appreciate your assessment.


----------



## Dannek

titan said:


> Not at all. I have the AD700 and X1's currently and *just tested the MA900, Q701 and PC360 *and the PC360 were easily the worst of the bunch in terms of quality and positioning...I was actually shocked at how much better the X1's were.
> 
> I originally owned the AD700 and then used Amazon's awesomely easy returns to try out the others and ultimately decided on the X1's. The MA900 were absolutely fantastic but I just couldn't find a good fit and overpaid quite a bit on Amazon for them. When I get some extra cash I'll buy another pair for $150-175. The X1's have the most bass I've personally ever heard in an open headphone and not in a bad way. Some explosions have a lot more punch to them than I'm used to with the AD700, obviously, but the comfort, ease of use with a Vmoda Boom mic and positioning won me over. I love them for EDM and gaming is just stellar.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey TiTaN. 
  
 Thanks for that review.  You covered the exact three headphones/sets that were on my original list along with the X1's.  I decided on the X1's yesterday and I'm just deciding on a mic option before I order them tomorrow.  Your review just wrapped it all up for me.  Thanks again.


----------



## Prodeje79

titan said:


> I originally owned the AD700 and then used Amazon's awesomely easy returns to try out the others and ultimately decided on the X1's. The MA900 were absolutely fantastic but I just couldn't find a good fit and overpaid quite a bit on Amazon for them. When I get some extra cash I'll buy another pair for $150-175. The X1's have the most bass I've personally ever heard in an open headphone and not in a bad way. Some explosions have a lot more punch to them than I'm used to with the AD700, obviously, but the comfort, ease of use with a Vmoda Boom mic and positioning won me over. I love them for EDM and gaming is just stellar.


 
  
 I have AD700 and a Logitech USB desktop MIC. Still holding out for a modmic 4.0.....  Your post really has me convinced to try X1 and V-MODA BoomPro.    Is the AD700 better in any regard for FPS gaming soundwhoring?  That is the only thing I will use them for.
  
 EDIT< holy crap, I just recalled my modded AD700 has 3.5mm connection!  OMG so excited!  Ordered a BoomPro .......
 I have these: http://www.head-fi.org/t/680712/highly-modded-ath-ad700-price-drop
 http://imgur.com/a/v6SWK
  
 Will I benefit from adding a Schiit Magni to my setup (Astro Mixamp 2011) ?


----------



## TiTaN

prodeje79 said:


> I have AD700 and a Logitech USB desktop MIC. Still holding out for a modmic 4.0.....  Your post really has me convinced to try X1 and V-MODA BoomPro.    Is the AD700 better in any regard for FPS gaming soundwhoring?  That is the only thing I will use them for.


 
 Honestly, I have been switching back and forth between the two (have my modmic semi-permanently attached to the AD700s) and I prefer the X1's and find the soundstage and presentation actually help with footsteps and soundwhoring over the AD700s, even though I always read the AD700s as the ultimate competitive soundwhoring headphones. I prefer the X1's and sometimes forget to switch back to the AD700s when testing them because they are so comfy and perform so well. Add to that the ability to plug in the boompro with a volume control and mute switch right in the cable, then unplug and move to my PC, where my stock cable is already plugged into my DG, for about the most convenient source switching you could hope for, and I know I'd never purchase the AD700 if I already had X1s and would sell them if it would even be worth the money.


----------



## TiTaN

gunnar96 said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I just ordered myself a DT 770 Pro 80Ohms for my computer. I also ordered a Asus Xonar DX card.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I prefer open headphones for gaming personally, as I game alone in my basement where it is otherwise quiet and enjoy being able to tell if someone comes down and I find I yell over chat when I can't hear myself well. That being said, I've owned DT770's twice before and know it was only a money based decision that I got rid of them. I think, as MLE says in the review, they are some of the best closed cans in terms of positioning and soundstage, especially for that price point, and think if you prefer closed cans for this purpose you'll enjoy them greatly. That being said, for a little more money, the X1's have a very closed sound in terms of being somewhat isolating (compared with any of the other open cans I tested them against [AD700, PC360, Q701 and MA900]) and have the great bass you'll get from the DT770s in an open presentation, which improves soundstage. Consider them if you can pay the extra money and decide the DT770s are missing something.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

I'm so about to buy the dt-990 pro. I will be doing a lot of gaming with these cans (but of course music too).
I started a poll to try and decide what cans to get. A couple people said the dt-990 pros are the wild card. I might not like them.
Fidelio x1s are in the lead.
So gamers? What are your thoughts:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/708251/akg-q701-vs-hd598-vs-fidelio-x1-vs-dt-990-pro

Edit: how much will pairing any of these cans with the Astro mix amp affect them.

I use m100s with my astro mix amp, it's a definite improvement over the original Astro A40s. 

Everyone is talking about how great he sound stage is with these four cans that I have listed. Well does the Dolby processing of the Astro amp negate this? Improve on it?


----------



## rc10mike

For anyone interested, Im selling my DT990 Premium 250ohm modified with (internal)silver cable and detachable cable. The Boom Pro would work and so does the Beyer Custom Headset Gear mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats pretty sweet.


----------



## Naingolann

What pads are those on your Beyer? I can't find 'em anywhere...also the plastic thingy that regulates the earpieces extension is consumed too.


----------



## kman1211

naingolann said:


> What pads are those on your Beyer? I can't find 'em anywhere...also the plastic thingy that regulates the earpieces extension is consumed too.


 

 I believe they are the black velour DT 880/990 Beyer pads. They are found on amazon.


----------



## SaLX

FYI - the V-Moda boom-pros weren't available a good while back from Amazon US (for shipping abroad), and at the time they would've been a bit pricey to import direct.  Now they do: if you're in Euroland, you're sorted.
  
 Should work out at 30 GBP here in UK (or 37 Euros -- GL with that currency you fools).
  
 I've had mine for 2 months now:  they are durable and do the job well. Hoping to buy these windscreens (dimensions courtesy of 1llest): http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B6KMDU8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=IO526ATD59RL&coliid=I13R058M00L93H. The mic alone measures an inch by a half inch.
  
 Wind? Where?


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

salx said:


> FYI - the V-Moda boom-pros weren't available a good while back from Amazon US (for shipping abroad), and at the time they would've been a bit pricey to import direct.  Now they do: if you're in Euroland, you're sorted.
> 
> Should work out at 30 GBP here in UK (or 37 Euros -- GL with that currency you fools).
> 
> ...




They still don't sell the boom mic in japan. Gaming headphones and mics in general are almost non existent. Luckily I am in the he states fora trip and picked up a boom mic for my m100s (odac, o2 amp, and fidelio x1) .
I don't know why people call japan a headphone paradise. Nightmare is more like it. Anything not Japanese is 30 to 100% more expensive. No major audiophile community like head fi, just random people posting things to their blogs. No budget options for amps and dacs. And companies like AT don't post hardly any specs at all about their amps. And I can't find ANY tests or specs from guys who bought the equipment. Sorry off topic.


----------



## rc10mike

Anyone try the ATH-ADG1 yet?


----------



## Change is Good

I can not emphasize enough that people are sleeping on these K612 Pros...
  
 If you can spare the extra ~$165, I suggest you snatch them up... seriously...


----------



## Change is Good

Good Schiit, right here...


----------



## rc10mike

change is good said:


> Good Schiit, right here...


 

 So how do these compare to the K702 65th Editions?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I can not emphasize enough that people are sleeping on these K612 Pros...
> 
> If you can spare the extra ~$165, I suggest you snatch them up... seriously...


 
  
 I'd love to pick up a pair, but with both the T1s and Alpha Dogs coming I doubt I'll be doing so any time soon. Maybe sometime down the road.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I can not emphasize enough that people are sleeping on these K612 Pros...
> 
> If you can spare the extra ~$165, I suggest you snatch them up... seriously...


 
 $179 on Amazon right now vs $199 for the Q701.  How do the two compare?


----------



## Fegefeuer

After a good while I managed to have a long gaming run yesterday and finished Infamous 2 on the PS3. 
  
 As usual for Sony 1st Party titles sound samples are better than multiplatform games (see Far Cry 3 and the lack of detail in any sample, smeared and washed out in general) so the Mixamp kinda "shined" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Infamous 2 lacks believable ambience unfortunately (sometimes it's dead silent) but has great music accompanying you throughout the game with big focus on bass and drums and ambience is forgotten during massive battles. In general the sound design is better than the usual multiplat. 
  
 I'm still in search for an (mobile) amping device to add to the Mixamp.


----------



## Imperatore

Well I got the Astro Mixamp Pro yesterday, I think it's great value for money but I think Dolby Headphone is awful.  The difference in sound quality between stereo and that was huge when playing Tomb Raider.  I can certainly see an advantage in FPS games (which I don't play) but overall, give me stereo any day.   Got to decide now if I send it back or keep it, it does have the advantage of allowing me to use a mic in future although this is unlikely, and after looking around I don't see many alternatives for the same price or less (£116).  Most DAC/AMP combos I see don't have optical in or are some dodgy make nobody has ever heard of.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People keep comparing a headphone stereo to a dsp that mimics a room full lf speakers. Of course there is gonna be a huge difference and DH isn't gonna sound as 'nautral' to a headphone as plain stereo.

Once you get over the shock of it not being a STEREO HEADPHONE sound, you'd see that DH can be quite good, and im not just talking about it's positional cues. People really needtk stop comparing the two, as it's night and day.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The trade-off in SQ between Stereo and room-based HRTF for immersion and believability is worth it. Pure stereo gaming and blind spotting or surround feel is a lie. The brain can only "correct" so much but never "create" the feeling of a 3D soundfield out of "simple" stereo. I understand not wanting to give up SQ at all times (as we don't for music) but I personally can "shut it off" for games and movies.
  
 Additionally: Dolby Headphone over an STX or fed to a good DAC/Amp (from a soundcard/device) is a huge difference in SQ over a Mixamp, it's night and day. I remember purely testing SQ in BF3 PC@Xonar STX vs. DD5.1 -> Mixamp, it was shocking, no hyperbole. The Mixamp is just the best we can work with with consoles unless we drop a lot money for a Headzone.
  
 The less the SQ is affected the better of course. Best compromise right now is SBX (Headzone is even a bit better and Realizer the reference) but it's not for consoles.


----------



## Imperatore

I felt less immersed using the DS on Tomb Raider.  Suddenly, those thundering gunshots being fired at me had lost all punch and weight, then there was the intricate sound of water that had now become faint and shallow.  Yet I could just as easily tell the direction with the DS turned off.  I'm personally going down the route now of thinking that there is no substitute for having 5 physical speakers placed around you and stereo is simply the way forward for headphones.  I need to try some different games I think but certainly on that one I wasn't feeling it.  Will spend a good few hours with it on tonight and see if I can learn to appreciate it more.
 I thought the Mixamp contained a DAC anyway?  I'm going to look into this Headzone thing and see if I can tell the difference ifI order it.
 This Head Zone seems very old and hard to find.  Direct is like £700, not sure I'm willing to part with that tbh.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Of course it has a DAC, else you wouldn't be able to hear anything. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I worded it lazy and actually meant Xonar Essence STX or "DHP soundcard/device --> digital out --> good DAC/AMP" > Mixamp (world's apart in quality).
  
 The Headzone might be old in graphics card cycle terms but it's room HRTF is still better than all that are priced below it. 700 bucks is too much though.
 Tomb Raider is more of a game whose sound design relies on ambience, shock/tension rather than listenning for positions/directions. Kinda like Dead Space. 
 Still, your problem is the Mixamp.
  
 Would be easier for you to get a gaming PC with a good soundcard.


----------



## Imperatore

I have both but I tend to play more games on consoles these days.  I wonder if I'd be happier if I got a decent DAc/AMp like The Mav Audio Tube Magic and just forget about the DS as I've gamed just fine without it for 20 years.


----------



## Kriss92

*Could need some advice with what headphones to buy. Appreciate all the help. *
  
 So i mostly play games on ps3, xbox and a few pc games and i am going to start playing ps4 games later this year also. I have never had any headphones for gaming before so i am not sure what would be good for the consoles. I have looked at ATH-M50, Sony MA900, ATH-AD700x, AKG K701, AKG K702, Sennheiser Momentum and Sennheiser HD598. I really liked ATH-M50 but they didnt do very well in positional audio and i am not sure if they would get better at that with the mixamp pro. The ATH-AD700x, AKG K701, AKG K702 and the Sony MA900 are very good at that i read in this forum and they are about the same price in my country except the MA900 which are 50 dollars cheaper. So i really cant decide what would be the best for me and need some advice. And my budget is around 320-350 dollars.
  
 And since i am playing on consoles a mixamp is a must for good sound?


----------



## Gobhal

Ok so I am guessing the amp on the 2011 mixamp is different than the 2013 right? The reason I ask is on my X1's I am having to pump up the volume quite a lot higher than I did with the 2013s. 
  
 Can the 2011 run the same types of cans as the 2013 and just as well? Kind of surprised how high I have to crank the volume...


----------



## Mackem

Well the BoomPro definitely works with the Q40s. I forgot to order a foam windshield thing though. I tried one from my brothers Turtle Beach headset and it was far too large and kept slipping off. Any ideas where I can buy one or a pack in the UK that will fit more snug?
  
 The BoomPro seems like a good quality mix but found that the amount of background noise picked up varies fromprogram to program.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

imperatore said:


> Well I got the Astro Mixamp Pro yesterday, I think it's great value for money but I think Dolby Headphone is awful.  The difference in sound quality between stereo and that was huge when playing Tomb Raider.  I can certainly see an advantage in FPS games (which I don't play) but overall, give me stereo any day.   Got to decide now if I send it back or keep it, it does have the advantage of allowing me to use a mic in future although this is unlikely, and after looking around I don't see many alternatives for the same price or less (£116).  Most DAC/AMP combos I see don't have optical in or are some dodgy make nobody has ever heard of.




It may just take you time to get used to it.
I think it's just so different sounding. 
I have had my mix amp for 5 years. 
Stereo sounds better I guess.... But the sound stage with DD on is like night and day.
You know what it might be? The loudness. If don't change the input level, the DD turned off will sound louder than with the DD turned on.
Humans will choose he the louder of two choices as the better one even though it isn't (this is why we have the loudness wars in Msuic today)


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> $179 on Amazon right now vs $199 for the Q701.  How do the two compare?


 
  
 It's been almost a year since I heard the stock Q701, so I can't really compare. Here is, however, a great comparison I found with the K702... and it helped me make my decision on the K612...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/685483/akg-k702-the-classic-vs-k612-pro-the-upstart-review-and-comparison
  
 And the K612 is $165 at razordogaudio using coupon *K612PRO*
  


axelcloris said:


> I'd love to pick up a pair, but with both the T1s and Alpha Dogs coming I doubt I'll be doing so any time soon. Maybe sometime down the road.


 
  
 Oooooooh... pictures when they arrive, please! What color did you decide on the AD?!? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 And, of course, IMPRESSIONS!!!


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

imperatore said:


> I felt less immersed using the DS on Tomb Raider.  Suddenly, those thundering gunshots being fired at me had lost all punch and weight, then there was the intricate sound of water that had now become faint and shallow.  Yet I could just as easily tell the direction with the DS turned off.  I'm personally going down the route now of thinking that there is no substitute for having 5 physical speakers placed around you and stereo is simply the way forward for headphones.  I need to try some different games I think but certainly on that one I wasn't feeling it.  Will spend a good few hours with it on tonight and see if I can learn to appreciate it more.
> I thought the Mixamp contained a DAC anyway?  I'm going to look into this Headzone thing and see if I can tell the difference ifI order it.
> This Head Zone seems very old and hard to find.  Direct is like £700, not sure I'm willing to part with that tbh.




I think you are out of your mind or something is wrong in your set up or your mix amp isn't working right.
I play a ton of games. I have 250 hours into I bf4 alone (ps4-optical out straight to mix amp- then my cans)
I used the a40s for 200 hours of that 250. I have the dial just over half way. The directions of the sound were spot on. The guns shots and explosions sharp as could be. Then I got my m100s. OMG. I had no idea games could sound this good. I can't even begin to listen to to bf4 at the same volume with my m100s the explosions and gunshots are so loud and so sharp they physically hurt my ears.
I just ordered my x1s yesterday and have not gotten them yet, but half the reason I got them is because so many people say how great they are for gaming and a couple wrote how surprised they paired with astro mix amp.

I
Maybe Tomb raiders sound isn't good. More than possible. I beat that game a while ago and don't really remember either way. When I got into good audio, and started to pay attention to game audio, you relieaze some games just sound like ****. Cod games are some of the worst sounding games in the market. Explosions lack bass and gunshot are flat and not sharp at all. (But cod did have good directional mixing) 

I think it funny you think 5 separate speakers is better.
When most kids where excited about getting drivers licenses I was saving up and built a a very expensive Klispch surround system. It was like 4,000$ after I finally got the full set and amp/receiver. Once I bought my astro amp and a40s for what 300$ I couldn't believe how much better it was in terms of its surround sound ability. I was so impressed that I thought a40s were AMAZING. It took me years to realize that the a40s are great compared to tv speakers, but hardly "great" 
After upgrading to m100s. Being even more impressed I will NEVER drop the cash needed for a full 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system (which btw is 40 year old technology used in theaters as early as the 70's).
If I have 4k to ever drop on a 5.1 speaker system I am going to put it toward more cans, motorcycle, or next car. 

(Ands I know you you don't need 4k. Plenty of people like Logitech do make amazing 5.1 and 7.1 systems for 500 to 1000) 
Also I live in an apt with paper thin walls so if I want to listen to anything remotely loud speakers are out of the question. However I can turn my m100s up to physical pain level and my wife and neighbors can't hear it.

Edit: I don't mean to come off negative or hostile. I'm just surprised you don't like the mix amp. Say what you want about Astros headphones, but the Mixamp usually gets glowing reviews.


----------



## Ephnen

Greetings, everyone. I've been a lurker for past year or so now, reading everyone's findings and insights, also entertained from gaining new knowledge. A question did arise during my searching for a pair of headphone that's suitable for both music and gaming. I've had my eyes on for a pair of MA900 for some time now, but never got around in getting one until this month. Price is well... no longer below $200. So the question is... is it worth the $240 price tag with all the positive aspects about it? I owned few pairs of Sony headphones in the past and loved them and now, a pair of M50. It definitely loses comfort after wearing for more than 30min and wearing my glasses also contribute to the problem. From what I've read and heard MA900 not only sound great, but it's comfort is fantastic. But is it really worth the current $240 price tag? This is making me lean towards the alternative choice which was the Q701. I'd have no problem with the Q701, if my sound card didn't die on me last month. 
  
Types of music I listen to are somewhat mixed. I listen to rock, alternative, some metal, electronic/techno, occasional R&B and pop, but mostly instrumental music. 
Same goes for game preference, being pretty much everything, but want to have an edge in fps titles in terms of positioning. 
 
Looking at this MA900 sounds like a winner for me, but I do have a budget of $200. Any recommendations? Thank you.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

gobhal said:


> Ok so I am guessing the amp on the 2011 mixamp is different than the 2013 right? The reason I ask is on my X1's I am having to pump up the volume quite a lot higher than I did with the 2013s.
> 
> Can the 2011 run the same types of cans as the 2013 and just as well? Kind of surprised how high I have to crank the volume...



That's interesting. I have had my mix amp I think a little over 4 years. Using my a40s most of the time. When it got my m100 I had to turn my average volume level down. It will be a week until I get my x1s so I can't talk about them yet. but they are what? 30 ohms? 32? So I would imagine it shouldn't be too much different form the a40s or m100s. 
I have heard they have made some different versions of mix amps. Maybe they lowered the output. That's too bad, when I mix in an MP3 player with my game audio and a few drinks I have turned my amp up to 100%.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

ephnen said:


> Greetings, everyone. I've been a lurker for past year or so now, reading everyone's findings and insights, also entertained from gaining new knowledge. A question did arise during my searching for a pair of headphone that's suitable for both music and gaming. I've had my eyes on for a pair of MA900 for some time now, but never got around in getting one until this month. Price is well... no longer below $200. So the question is... is it worth the $240 price tag with all the positive aspects about it? I owned few pairs of Sony headphones in the past and loved them and now, a pair of M50. It definitely loses comfort after wearing for more than 30min and wearing my glasses also contribute to the problem. From what I've read and heard MA900 not only sound great, but it's comfort is fantastic. But is it really worth the current $240 price tag? This is making me lean towards the alternative choice which was the Q701. I'd have no problem with the Q701, if my sound card didn't die on me last month.
> 
> Types of music I listen to are somewhat mixed. I listen to rock, alternative, some metal, electronic/techno, occasional R&B and pop, but mostly instrumental music.
> Same goes for game preference, being pretty much everything, but want to have an edge in fps titles in terms of positioning.
> ...




I just created a thread (and poll) based on Mad Lust's list, my tastes, and budget. Check out for yourself. The Fidelio X1 won hands down! 
I bought them. They will probably be the last open back cans I buy until I get 500$ cash for some hifiman he-5. 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/708251/akg-q701-vs-hd598-vs-fidelio-x1-vs-dt-990-pro

Edit: I really wanted the dt-990 but the more I looked into them everyone says they have a treble spike. That turns me off big time. Everyone says in the x1 reviews smooth the curve is. Few if any frequency spike. And massive bass for open back cans, one of the many reasons they make great gaming cans. 
(I really want some Beyer cans at one point. I might get the dt-770 closed back for work)

Edit 2: the ma-900 seem to be discontinued in the use, but they seem to be cheaper and still in production in japan. Some for as low as 16,500 yen. About 165$. But 3 of the other cans that I put in poll are 150 to 180$ http://www.amazon.co.jp/ソニー-MDR-MA900-SONY-ステレオヘッドホン-MA900/dp/B007R99S14/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394072863&sr=8-1&keywords=Ma-900


----------



## AxelCloris

> Originally Posted by *Change is Good* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Oooooooh... pictures when they arrive, please! What color did you decide on the AD?!?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm going with the red Alpha dogs. The black looked nice but the matte finish may show scratches more easily and the red just looks so damned sexy. I was tempted to get the black but when I thought about it the red was the clear winner for me. I will indeed have photos and impressions sometime down the road. But it'll probably have to wait a bit. The headphones haven't shipped yet (either pair) and on top of that I'm moving houses and April is a completely packed month.


----------



## Smuckerz

Just made my first headphone purchase! This guide was very helpful. I got the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250. Can't wait until I get them from Amazon. After thinking long and hard these headphones look just right for me and I can't wait to hear what I've been missing. I hope they are worth every penny.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just like I stated many times before, when you're using the Mixamp or other DH device, you need tk use it EXCLUSIVELY for a few days to a week. THEN go back to stereo.

If you're just using it for a few hours, and basing your impressions off that, well, no wonder you're gonna hate on it. Your brain needs time.

As I stated on the first post, I hated DH at first too.

This is for Imperatore.

Oh yes, I've owned Tomb Raider on 3 systems. IT IS A BAD GAME TO TEST DH AUDIO.


----------



## DoctaCosmos




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A40? I dunno what the picture is implying.


----------



## Change is Good

Wrong thread?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean it LOOKS like an A40 (dat headband padding), but the pads aren't standard A40 pads.


----------



## Change is Good

So are you done buying headphones for a while? I know you miss your ma900... and realize you have no open headphone now...

*hint hint*


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Managed to get my old d2000 pads on my a40s. Kind of a pain to get on. Not going to mention any frequency response change but the added isolation really helps focus on the smaller details (still not a detail whore though) sounds more like a closed back headphone. Not as comfy over long sessions but I can live with it.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Haven't been on here in a while. Any new best closed headphones?... One you can add one of those sweet vmoda mics to?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If comfort isn't a big issue, the Monster DNA Pro is the best closed back headphone I've heard under $300. Yes, it's that good, though it's limited for gaming, due to a very good seal, and better stereo use than virtual surround.

And lol, I did say A40 with Denon pads before I edited it out as I wasn't sure. 

Change: No money gong to be spent on headphones for a good while. If I was gonna jump back in, it'd have to be something worthwhile for all my uses, like an HE-400i or something. But we're talking much later, and highly unlikely in any case.

I might reacquire a pair of KSC75s, since the cable on my modded PX100-II is starting to open up and expose some wires. Clip ons are something I 100% need in my life.


----------



## Ephnen

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> I just created a thread (and poll) based on Mad Lust's list, my tastes, and budget. Check out for yourself. The Fidelio X1 won hands down!
> I bought them. They will probably be the last open back cans I buy until I get 500$ cash for some hifiman he-5.
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/708251/akg-q701-vs-hd598-vs-fidelio-x1-vs-dt-990-pro
> 
> ...


 

 Ah, didn't think about ordering from Japan. It should cheaper than ordering from NA Amazon. If not, I'll add the X1 into consideration. Thanks.


----------



## Imperatore

mad lust envy said:


> Just like I stated many times before, when you're using the Mixamp or other DH device, you need tk use it EXCLUSIVELY for a few days to a week. THEN go back to stereo.
> 
> If you're just using it for a few hours, and basing your impressions off that, well, no wonder you're gonna hate on it. Your brain needs time.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Mad Lust I am using it constantly now.  One thing I did notice...  There was an electrical wire crackling behind me somewhere, now I decided to flick to stereo and it sounded like it was very close to my ear, when I turned on DS I noticed that I could almost tell the distance this noise was coming from.
 To the person who said something must be wrong with me..  A lof of the stuff you read is subjective, you cannot say someone is wrong because their ears do not interpret something the same as you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing is wrong with you. It really is a jarring difference between stereo and Dolby headphone. Dolby headphone will almost always be a turn off at first. Take it from the guy who spent $250 for the A40/Mixamp system, only to really dislike DH and put everything away for a long time, until I got an AD700 and tried again, this time giving it it's time to let it sink in.


Give it a week Imperatore. Like seriously. Just play your games with DH for week, not ONCE checking back in stereo. If you're playing some games with good audio and positional cues, and let your brain adjust to the virtual surround and difference... a week will be enough time to adjust. You'll be surprised how restricting and bottlenecked the sound will be when you go back to stereo.


----------



## Imperatore

I was certainly a lot more at peace with it after last nights session.  I came across some enemies outside but I could tell where they were so much so that I had my aim on them as soon as I popped my head around the corner.  Not many games on PS4 to try it with yet but I'm coming around slowly


----------



## DoctaCosmos

One of my buddies bought some Astros and didn't know about going into the audio settings and changing the digital audio to Dolby. He'd been listening in stereo. I pointed him in the right direction then made him get on black Ops 2 and go to the audio setting something and put it on the headphone audio setting then told him to close his eyes and do the test. He was blown away


----------



## Gobhal

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> That's interesting. I have had my mix amp I think a little over 4 years. Using my a40s most of the time. When it got my m100 I had to turn my average volume level down. It will be a week until I get my x1s so I can't talk about them yet. but they are what? 30 ohms? 32? So I would imagine it shouldn't be too much different form the a40s or m100s.
> I have heard they have made some different versions of mix amps. Maybe they lowered the output. That's too bad, when I mix in an MP3 player with my game audio and a few drinks I have turned my amp up to 100%.


 
 Yeah and my Senn HD598 are 50 and I need to turn the volume to the max or close to it. Whereas with the 2013 mixamp I did not...I guess they changed it quite a bit?


----------



## Kriss92

kriss92 said:


> *Could need some advice with what headphones to buy. Appreciate all the help. *
> 
> So i mostly play games on ps3, xbox and a few pc games and i am going to start playing ps4 games later this year also. I have never had any headphones for gaming before so i am not sure what would be good for the consoles. I have looked at ATH-M50, Sony MA900, ATH-AD700x, AKG K701, AKG K702, Sennheiser Momentum and Sennheiser HD598. I really liked ATH-M50 but they didnt do very well in positional audio and i am not sure if they would get better at that with the mixamp pro. The ATH-AD700x, AKG K701, AKG K702 and the Sony MA900 are very good at that i read in this forum and they are about the same price in my country except the MA900 which are 50 dollars cheaper. So i really cant decide what would be the best for me and need some advice. And my budget is around 320-350 dollars.
> 
> And since i am playing on consoles a mixamp is a must for good sound?


 
 Anyone?


----------



## Murder Mike

kriss92 said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 If you can afford it, MA900 and mixamp, given the options you listed.


----------



## Kriss92

murder mike said:


> If you can afford it, MA900 and mixamp, given the options you listed.


 
 Yeah they are not so expensive but they look like they will break easy and how are these compared to ad700x for FPS games?
 Also i am wondering how the adjustability is. Will they fit good on people with big heads?


----------



## Murder Mike

kriss92 said:


> Yeah they are not so expensive but they look like they will break easy and how are these compared to ad700x for FPS games?
> Also i am wondering how the adjustability is. Will they fit good on people with big heads?


 
  
 I don't think they'll break easy if you take care of them. They might not have as large of a soundstage as the ad700x, but it will still be VERY good (don't compare numbers). MLE has a large noggin, and he loved the fit, so I would guess they're good there as well.


----------



## Kriss92

murder mike said:


> I don't think they'll break easy if you take care of them. They might not have as large of a soundstage as the ad700x, but it will still be VERY good (don't compare numbers). MLE has a large noggin, and he loved the fit, so I would guess they're good there as well.


 
  
 Alright thanks man, think i will buy these headphones.
  
 They should work good on consoles with the mixamp, correct?
 And i was thinking about buying the zalman mic and then maybe get a blue yeti when i got more money. Will these work with the MA900's, the mixamp and ps3/ps4?


----------



## Prodeje79

kriss92 said:


> Anyone?


 
 I think everything is covered in post 1 of this thread.
  
 I'd get a mixamp pro 2011 or 13 or 5.8,a pair of Philips X1, and a v-moda boompro.
 Maybe consider a Schiit Magni depending on which mixamp you get.
  
 EDIT for links:
*Philips Fidelio X1/28 Premium Over-Ear Headphones* 
http://amzn.com/B00B3QD94O
  
 Google mixamp to find used and new ones.....
  
*V-MODA BoomPro Gaming, VoIP Headset Headphone with Mic, Black*
http://amzn.com/B00BJ17WKK


----------



## Murder Mike

kriss92 said:


> They should work good on consoles with the mixamp, correct?
> And i was thinking about buying the zalman mic and then maybe get a blue yeti when i got more money. Will these work with the MA900's, the mixamp and ps3/ps4?


 
  
 Yes, they don't require an amp to sound good. The Zalman mic isn't that great. See if you can get one of the Neewer clip-on mics or a dealextreme clip-on. They will work with anything the mixamp will work with. 
  


prodeje79 said:


> I think everything is covered in post 1 of this thread.
> 
> I'd get a mixamp pro 2011 or 13 or 5.8,a pair of Philips X1, and a v-moda boompro.
> Maybe consider a Schiit Magni depending on which mixamp you get.


 
  
 It's nice that you're trying to help, but he didn't even list the X1 in his post.


----------



## Prodeje79

murder mike said:


> It's nice that you're trying to help, but he didn't even list the X1 in his post.


 
  
 Based on his lack of reading, I assumed he didn't see it was the clear choice.


----------



## Murder Mike

prodeje79 said:


> Based on his lack of reading, I assumed he didn't see it was the clear choice.


 
 Or he's not able to get them easily in his region. The MA900s are available and cheaper than everything else he listed, they are the clear choice.


----------



## Kriss92

prodeje79 said:


> I think everything is covered in post 1 of this thread.
> 
> I'd get a mixamp pro 2011 or 13 or 5.8,a pair of Philips X1, and a v-moda boompro.
> Maybe consider a Schiit Magni depending on which mixamp you get.
> ...


 
  
  


murder mike said:


> Yes, they don't require an amp to sound good. The Zalman mic isn't that great. See if you can get one of the Neewer clip-on mics or a dealextreme clip-on. They will work with anything the mixamp will work with.
> 
> 
> It's nice that you're trying to help, but he didn't even list the X1 in his post.


 
  
 I actually missed the Philips Fidelio X1 and now when i have watched it it looks real nice too. Is it better then the MA900? It looks more sturdy and that's real good. I just have two concerns about it and that is it looks like it cant be adjusted so i am not 100% it would fit me and the second thing is that it is not as good as the MA900 for "sound whoring" but maybe the difference is not that huge? And the Fidelio X1 is just a little more expensive.
  
 About the mic, i have only found the zalman mic, some even worse mics and the table mics here in my county. So there is not much of an option with that. The V-moda boompro doesnt excist here and i dont want to import stuff.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Is it just me, or has there been a trend of Fidelio X1 FOTM hype lately, especially in this thread?


----------



## SaLX

namelesspfg said:


> Is it just me, or has there been a trend of Fidelio X1 FOTM hype lately, especially in this thread?


 
 I think it's the realisation that the X1 plus the utility of the V-Moda mic makes it the perfect all round gaming _headset _(open at the very least). Modmic looks good, but the extra wire needed makes it look, by comparison, clunky on any headphone.


----------



## Murder Mike

namelesspfg said:


> Is it just me, or has there been a trend of Fidelio X1 FOTM hype lately, especially in this thread?


 
 It's not you. I haven't heard them, so I can't judge them, but with the MA900 being discontinued and the price going up, there's no reason for someone not to mention the X1s as an alternative. The X1 doesn't need an amp either and pairs well with the Boom Pro. It makes it an easy recommendation.


----------



## roguegeek

murder mike said:


> It's not you. I haven't heard them, so I can't judge them, but with the MA900 being discontinued and the price going up, there's no reason for someone not to mention the X1s as an alternative. The X1 doesn't need an amp either and pairs well with the Boom Pro. It makes it an easy recommendation.


 
 If you prefer basshead cans, that is.


----------



## Murder Mike

roguegeek said:


> If you prefer basshead cans, that is.


 
  
 I haven't heard that much. It's kind of hard for an open headphone to be a basshead can IMO. I'm not going to argue this point, because again, I haven't heard them, and even then, you're free to make your own judgement on that. I do know that a good majority of people find them enjoyable as an all around headphone that works well with all types of games.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> If you prefer basshead cans, that is.


 
  
 To me, it's more of a borderline basshead can... but not completely there...


----------



## chicolom

namelesspfg said:


> Is it just me, or has there been a trend of Fidelio X1 FOTM hype lately, especially in this thread?


 
  
 I think the $150 flash sale followed by the $70 price drop played a big part in that.
  
 They were already one of the best all-around choices for gaming (and music), and the ability to add a mic and the aforementioned price drop have caused an increase in the recommendations for them here.


----------



## SaLX

X1's basshead?? A basshead headphone will practically smother the **** out of the mids and highs - the X1 is nowhere close.... I love the thing.


----------



## Change is Good

Finally, an IEM with a stellar soundstage (_for_ an IEM)... the Sony XBA-H3. The SM64 was nice, but nowhere near as wide as these...
  

  
 I will be testing them on BF4, later tonight. Not sure how they will perform, as far as competitive gaming goes, because these have some big bass similar to that of the SRH1540.


----------



## VORZ

What would be a good pair of closed back headphones to use with the stereo adapter for the xbox one? Ideally I don't want to have an amp dangling from my controller. My budget is $400. Currently have the HD 280 Pros.


----------



## roguegeek

It's basshead territory for me and my preferences. I get that might not be everyone else's preferences, so I'm just speaking for me. But I don't think I'm the only one who classifies it as much.


----------



## Change is Good

vorz said:


> What would be a good pair of closed back headphones to use with the stereo adapter for the xbox one? Ideally I don't want to have an amp dangling from my controller. My budget is $400. Currently have the HD 280 Pros.


 
  
 Do you want big bass? or a more neutral sound signature?


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Finally, an IEM with a stellar soundstage (_for_ an IEM)... the Sony XBA-H3. The SM64 was nice, but nowhere near as wide as these...
> 
> 
> 
> I will be testing them on BF4, later tonight. Not sure how they will perform, as far as competitive gaming goes, because these have some big bass similar to that of the SRH1540.


 
 Ooo! Very interested, especially how it compares to the XBA-3. How is it with the A2?


----------



## VORZ

change is good said:


> Do you want big bass? or a more neutral sound signature?


 
  
 Neutral... mostly play BF4, so don't want to be distracted by explosions.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> Ooo! Very interested, especially how it compares to the XBA-3. How is it with the A2?


 
  
 Never heard the original XBA-3, but can say these are SHINING with the A2! These are efficient enough for use with just a phone, but really do benefit from some nice amping...


vorz said:


> Neutral... mostly play BF4, so don't want to be distracted by explosions.


 
  
 Well, I would have to say that finding the right _closed_ headphone at under $400 will be quite a task. The Mad Dogs are a nice choice... but it'd be best, IMO, to up your budget (if you can) and go for the Alpha Dogs, instead.
  
 Unfortunately, there aren't many options to choose from when looking for a neutral closed headphone with a good enough soundstage for BF4.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Never heard the original XBA-3, but can say these are SHINING with the A2! These are efficient enough for use with just a phone, but really do benefit from some nice amping...


 
 Been on the lookout for a nice pair of neutral IEMs with a decent soundstage. I'll keep a look out for your impressions. The only thing I don't like is how bulky they are, but I do like the over-ear mount. I just wished Sony IEMs were a little more flushed with the ear like Shures are.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> Been on the lookout for a nice pair of neutral IEMs with a decent soundstage. I'll keep a look out for your impressions. The only thing I don't like is how bulky they are, but I do like the over-ear mount. I just wished Sony IEMs were a little more flushed with the ear like Shures are.


 
  
 Hmmm... I don't think these would be to your liking, then, because the bass makes them quite far from nuetral. I would put it's bass around the ballpark of the SRH1540 and X1, actually. 
  
 For your taste... I'd suggest the SM64, instead, or even the Westone 4. Those are more aimed towards neutrality with a slight touch of warmth. It really depends on how much bass your ears prefer...
  
 If you could choose one of your headphones to have a mimic IEM... which would it be?


----------



## VORZ

change is good said:


> Unfortunately, there aren't any options to choose from when looking for a neutral closed headphone with a good enough soundstage for BF4.


 
  
 I might be able to bump it up to $500 but the problem is that it has be available from amazon. Also, I'm fine with just having stereo sound wirelessly from the controller without amplification. So basically looking for something similar to the HD 280s, just lower impedance.


----------



## Change is Good

vorz said:


> I might be able to bump it up to $500 but the problem is that it has be available from amazon. Also, I'm fine with just having stereo sound wirelessly from the controller without amplification. So basically looking for something similar to the HD 280s, just lower impedance.




Like I mentioned, there arent many options to choose from when looking for a decent closed headphone for gaming. The Alpha Dog, FWIR, is the clear winner for what you are looking for. It costs $600, however, and will need proper amping. 

So.. SRH940? Some people say it's bright... but most of what I read is that they fall right in line of a neutral closed headphone with an above average soundstage. Never heard them, however... so maybe *rogue* can give you some input on it.


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Like I mentioned, there arent many options to choose from when looking for a decent closed headphone for gaming. The Alpha Dog, FWIR, is the clear winner for what you are looking for. It costs $600, however, and will need proper amping.
> 
> So.. SRH940? Some people say it's bright... but most of what I read is that they fall right in line of a neutral closed headphone with an above average soundstage. Never heard them, however... so maybe *rogue* can give you some input on it.


 
  
Got ya covered.
  
 Quick disclaimer: My perception is a lot of people prefer warmer cans in this thread where I prefer neutral or, sometimes, slightly colored highs (bright). Just something to keep in mind when reading any impressions I throw out there.


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> I think it's the realisation that the X1 plus the utility of the V-Moda mic makes it the perfect all round gaming _headset _(open at the very least). Modmic looks good, but the extra wire needed makes it look, by comparison, clunky on any headphone.


 
  
 Oh, right-the X1 has a detachable cable of the sort that you can substitute with the V-MODA BoomPro mic, so there's no need for a ModMic. That explains a lot of it.
  


murder mike said:


> It's not you. I haven't heard them, so I can't judge them, but with the MA900 being discontinued and the price going up, there's no reason for someone not to mention the X1s as an alternative. The X1 doesn't need an amp either and pairs well with the Boom Pro. It makes it an easy recommendation.


 
  
 My concern isn't that people mention the X1 as an alternative; there's good reason for it to be recommended so highly, I'm sure.
  
 It's that people are starting to act like there are NO alternatives to the X1 and that it's the best at everything, even though it's clear by now that people have different tastes in sound signatures. That's why I feel it's getting a little out of hand.
  


chicolom said:


> I think the $150 flash sale followed by the $70 price drop played a big part in that.
> 
> They were already one of the best all-around choices for gaming (and music), and the ability to add a mic and the aforementioned price drop have caused an increase in the recommendations for them here.


 
  
 Oh, right, that $150 sale again...wonder if we'll be seeing another one of those for a while.
  
 But until that happens, I personally have little incentive to buy one for review, then resell it at an all-too-likely loss. Not with the MMX 300, MA900, and that "beater" Lambda lying around.
  


salx said:


> X1's basshead?? A basshead headphone will practically smother the **** out of the mids and highs - the X1 is nowhere close.... I love the thing.


 
  
 Smothered mids is my number-one concern with any headphone, given the way most of 'em are tuned these days.
  
 For some points of reference, MLE's HE-400 with the velour pads sounded very recessed despite supposedly having a flat response from lower mids to bass, about the most recession I can stand, and my MMX 300 (DT770 Premium 32-ohm) still sounds a little recessed despite a SineGen sweep showing no drastic changes in the midrange.
  
 MLE's even flat-out told me that the X1 probably isn't my cup of tea in terms of signature to begin with. Only a first-hand audition can prove that, but it just makes me think about how my tastes probably aren't lining up with everyone else's here.


----------



## SaLX

Bad day at the office Nameless? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 1. Yes.... having one cable is far far better than two cables hanging off your skull.
  
 2. The X1 does bass when it has to, otherwise it's pretty neutral. PC users can EQ out any bass (easier to EQ out something than to add it). So maybe it's not ultra perfect for console sound whoring, but most users would, I bet you a ****onne, love the sound of it over a bassless headphone: it's still a superb all rounder.
  
 3. Grab yourself a pair.


----------



## Change is Good

Nameless, have you thought about giving the K612 a try?


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

smuckerz said:


> Just made my first headphone purchase! This guide was very helpful. I got the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 250. Can't wait until I get them from Amazon. After thinking long and hard these headphones look just right for me and I can't wait to hear what I've been missing. I hope they are worth every penny.


 
 let us know what you think. I was going to buy that EXACT pair and Head-fi convinced me not to get them and to get the Fidelio X1s instead. 
 I got them today, but have yet to open them. 
 I plan on getting the DT-770 pro 250 'cause I just have to have a pair of Beyer cans one day. They are just too damn sexy. 
  
 Edit: yeah. I read all the stuff about the X1s being over hyped. I choose them for a lot different reasons. I am going back to Japan in a few days and they are 100$ more there. So buy them now or never. I also have not opened them yet. So I can sell them for a profit if I decide not to keep them. I started a thread/poll and bascily everyone said cans like the q701 would not or HD-598 would not pair as well with the astro mix amp. I really wanted the DT990s but people were talking about the treble spike they are prone too. As it is I have trouble with frequency spikes with BF4 with my m100s, so I would like to try and avoid that. AND the X1s are just about one of the sexiest cans in this price range. The 701 come close. Sorry but I think the Senhiesers are ugly as ****. Some of the worst looking cans I have ever seen. DTs I love. That is why I still plan on buying the 770s for work.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

mad lust envy said:


> Just like I stated many times before, when you're using the Mixamp or other DH device, you need tk use it EXCLUSIVELY for a few days to a week. THEN go back to stereo.
> 
> If you're just using it for a few hours, and basing your impressions off that, well, no wonder you're gonna hate on it. Your brain needs time.
> 
> ...


 
 this is the same for high frame rate video (like the Hobbit movies)


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

imperatore said:


> Thanks Mad Lust I am using it constantly now.  One thing I did notice...  There was an electrical wire crackling behind me somewhere, now I decided to flick to stereo and it sounded like it was very close to my ear, when I turned on DS I noticed that I could almost tell the distance this noise was coming from.
> To the person who said something must be wrong with me..  A lof of the stuff you read is subjective, you cannot say someone is wrong because their ears do not interpret something the same as you.


 
 i am not sure if you are talking about me.... if you are I didnt mean anything was wrong with YOU, but rather something in the string of sound. Meaning it could the game, your cans, or yes it COULD be you, that you are not used to the DD sound, which is EXACTLY what Mad Lust said (you may just not be used to the DD sound). Mad Lust said basically the exact same thing I was trying to say, but he explained it much better and of course he carries more weight around here.  then again you may be talking about someone else.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> this is the same for high frame rate video (like the Hobbit movies)




God no. High framerate video literally craps all over what makes movies look like movies. Instead they start looking more like soap operas, or the behind the scenes. It's unnatural, and should be removed from all existence.

You want high framerate movies, buy yourself one of bajillion TVs that have dejudder processing that interpolates frames between frames. things like Sony's Motionflow, Samsung's Auto Motion Plus, etc. It's the same effect you see on those tvs, except more consistent in the theatres.

Sorry, that's one thing I will ALWAYS hate. Movies should be 24fps to retain their cinematic, surreal look. At the most, I'd accept 30fps for movies, if only to eliminate 2:3 pulldown cause by 60hz refresh rates on 24hz content.

48fps for movies is something I will be against until the day I die. I'm a cinema purist, and a high framerate ruins that cinematic look completely.

To be fair, I had a Samsung and I used that high framerate dejudder for video games, and even used it on CERTAIN movies that I've watched many times before. it's a cool trick, but it's just that, a trick. Not something that should ever, ever be a standard.

At least with dejudder, you can turn that option off. Even my TV has that nonsense, and I leave it off. But if Hollywood tries to cram 48fps down our throats like they do with 3D... it will be a bad day for cinema indeed.

I would love to watch IMAX without 3D, but guess what? You basically can't now. Stupid, stupid 3D.

With virtual surround, all you're doing is trading off a limited headphone's sound presentation, to one akin to a room full of speakers. You're just changing the presentaion of the sond, you're not altering the actual source.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

kriss92 said:


> Anyone?


 
 Do you have a mix amp of any kind or plan or buying any. 
 I have astro mixamp and swear buy it. To be  100% honest with you, what brought me to head-fi in the first place and into audiophile equipment is a blog entry someone wrote saying how awesome the astro mixamp is, but ANY 150$ pair of head phone is better than the Astro A40s. That started me down a dark hole (don't get me started. just spent 1k in less than 2 months and don't regret a ******* dime of it!) 
  
 I am just curious. You found this particular forum thread. Did you not read it? Mad Lust has a billion reviews and recommendations in the initial thread. Based on his thoughts, my tastes, and budget, I narrowed it down to 4 cans and just bought the x1s. What are you looking for and at what cost? 
 I really wanted the DT 990s but a lot of people talked me out of them because of the their high treble spike which really turned me off. The X1s were 40 bucks more but are 10000 times sexier and are supposed to have a much better frequency response across the board and have some of the best bass, sub 300 cans, for open back (please correct me if I am wrong. Also I have not opened my x1s yet, I am waiting until I get back to Japan next week)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds pretty good to me. Open backed headphone don't tend to have as much bass as the 990/X1/HD650. Of course you have planar bass, which is even better, but more linear so it won't be 'emphasized' like the 3 I have mentioned.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

mad lust envy said:


> God no. High framerate video literally craps all over what makes movies look like movies. Instead they start looking more like soap operas, or the behind the scenes. It's unnatural, and should be removed from all existence.
> 
> You want high framerate movies, buy yourself one of bajillion TVs that have dejudder processing that interpolates frames between frames. things like Sony's Motionflow, Samsung's Auto Motion Plus, etc. It's the same effect you see on those tvs, except more consistent in the theatres.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry. I totally respect your audio opinion but I totally disagree with you video opinion. You are just plain wrong. I 100% agree about the soap opera effect. I HATE it. But the Hobbit was SHOT in high frame rate. It was not up scaled.  I am not saying 48fps is the best or the future, but it is the NOT the same as the up-scaled crap that all of our TVs do today. I am not smart enough to argue this... but IMHO you are wrong. 48fps is different. And the reason you may not like it now is because you have only seen one movie with it. Scientists have said it will take 3 to 5 movies for your brain to get used it. That is why it looks weird for some people now. They say when people first started watching 24fps movies that they experienced that same slow down effect that many of us report when first watching 48fps movies. This is TOTALLY different from that crap upscale that our TVs do. Our TVs are adding fake frames. Movies like Hobbit actually shoot and show 48 frames. Our brains are not 100% sure how to proccess it yet and the more we see it the less we it will seem werid to us, unlike the upsacling. 
  
 Honeslty. This is a great thread about gaming audio. I dont want it to get off topic about this... but if you want I can start posting about 100000000000000 links why you dont like 48fps and are wrong. 
  
 And I do not understand your hate of 3d. It is useless in many movies. Movies that would be bad either way. 
 It also adds to many movies. IMHO Imax is more of a gimmick than 3d. Explain to me what Imax is? 
 Louder speakers. double projectors. 
 I mean... movies like batman where only 20% IMAX anyway so the ratio of the movie changed through out the movie... totally lame.


----------



## Fegefeuer

namelesspfg said:


> MLE's even flat-out told me that the X1 probably isn't my cup of tea in terms of signature to begin with. Only a first-hand audition can prove that, but it just makes me think about how my tastes probably aren't lining up with everyone else's here.


 
  
 It isn't for me either and I had it for quite a bit of hours. I like pronounced or stronger bass but I can't stand the lack of detail of the X1 in that spectrum.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

vorz said:


> What would be a good pair of closed back headphones to use with the stereo adapter for the xbox one? Ideally I don't want to have an amp dangling from my controller. My budget is $400. Currently have the HD 280 Pros.


 
 you bought an Xbone......


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Sorry. I totally respect your audio opinion but I totally disagree with you video opinion. You are just plain wrong. I 100% agree about the soap opera effect. I HATE it. But the Hobbit was SHOT in high frame rate. It was not up scaled.  I am not saying 48fps is the best or the future, but it is the NOT the same as the up-scaled crap that all of our TVs do today. I am not smart enough to argue this... but IMHO you are wrong. 48fps is different. And the reason you may not like it now is because you have only seen one movie with it. Scientists have said it will take 3 to 5 movies for your brain to get used it. That is why it looks weird for some people now. They say when people first started watching 24fps movies that they experienced that same slow down effect that many of us report when first watching 48fps movies. This is TOTALLY different from that crap upscale that our TVs do. Our TVs are adding fake frames. Movies like Hobbit actually shoot and show 48 frames. Our brains are not 100% sure how to proccess it yet and the more we see it the less we it will seem werid to us, unlike the upsacling.
> 
> Honeslty. This is a great thread about gaming audio. I dont want it to get off topic about this... but if you want I can start posting about 100000000000000 links why you dont like 48fps and are wrong.
> 
> ...



Motion Interpolation essentially makes 24fps content look like 48-60fps. So, no, it's still very much the same as the Hobbit, albeit with artifacts and framerate stutters. The same effect is there, they both look artificial, and makes movies NOT look like movies but more akin to something happening in real time. That RUINS what makes movies movies. But anyways, you can argue that until the end of time, but I stand by my words. it's garbage.

As for 3D... I don't hate it, however I hate that the studios are shoving it down our throats. I don't like it. I like how movies look as they have always looked. I don't need these stupid gimmicks to enjoy a film. As long as HFR and 3D are OPTIONS, they won't bother me, as I can just pay less and get more enjoyment out of a standard 24fps 2D film.


----------



## motorwayne

change is good said:


> Nameless, have you thought about giving the K612 a try?


 
 Yep, I can testify to this..I gave up the X1's for a pair of K612's and haven't looked back,


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

mad lust envy said:


> Motion Interpolation essentially makes 24fps content look like 48-60fps. So, no, it's still very much the same as the Hobbit, albeit with artifacts and framerate stutters. The same effect is there, they both look artificial, and makes movies NOT look like movies but more akin to something happening in real time. That RUINS what makes movies movies. But anyways, you can argue that until the end of time, but I stand by my words. it's garbage.
> 
> As for 3D... I don't hate it, however I hate that the studios are shoving it down our throats. I don't like it. I like how movies look as they have always looked. I don't need these stupid gimmicks to enjoy a film. As long as HFR and 3D are OPTIONS, they won't bother me, as I can just pay less and get more enjoyment out of a standard 24fps 2D film.
> 
> ...


 
 so you hate change. got it. 
  
 edit: and I agree that interpolation crap is a joke. I just spent 2 weeks with my best friend and 2 weeks at my paretns house. They both have that crap turned on their TVs. They have no idea its even on... I was about to explode. But its not my place to say anything. My best friend is like "dude I just bought a 240hz TV" I was like... good for you... I guess... Then when I came to say I got to "enjoy it" 
  
 I will agree to disagree with you about imax, 3d, and 48fps. 
 I do agree much of it is a gimmick. I disagree that is doesn't have a place in SOME films. 
 Resident Evil 5 with is 3d effects is total BS. Take off your glasses and there isnt even a differnt in 90% of the film. But I 100% LOVED Hobbit high frame rate. My wife did not. I am going to see the sequal (in Japan when we get back next week, still playing there. so we will see if I still like) 
 Other movies are amazing in 3D. I have a 3D and I will tell you. It if VERY hit or miss with 3D movies. Most are a joke. Some are great and better. Its 3 am and I am drunk as **** so I am not going to enter the mental library at this time to pull out titles. Anyway. 
 Good night! I love this thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> so you hate change. got it.




I don't hate change. I hate change that ruins what it's trying to improve.




> “It looked uncompromisingly real — so much so that it looked fake … Hobbiton and Middle Earth didn’t feel like a different universe, it felt like a special effect, a film set with actors in costumes. It looked like behind the scenes footage. The movement of the actors looked… strange. Almost as if the performances had been partly sped up … It didn’t look cinematic.” – Peter Sciretta of Slashfilm




Precisely my point.

Oh, I'm very senstitive to framerates. Not many people are. I can easily tell the difference between 24/48/60fps.

Some people can't tell a diff between 24 and 60, which is shocking to me.

You enjoy HFR and 3D, good for you. I prefer to keep movies looking like movies, not some behind the scenes or soap opera.


----------



## Change is Good

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> so you hate change. got it.




He hates me?!? 

*tear*


----------



## Imperatore

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> i am not sure if you are talking about me.... if you are I didnt mean anything was wrong with YOU, but rather something in the string of sound. Meaning it could the game, your cans, or yes it COULD be you, that you are not used to the DD sound, which is EXACTLY what Mad Lust said (you may just not be used to the DD sound). Mad Lust said basically the exact same thing I was trying to say, but he explained it much better and of course he carries more weight around here.  then again you may be talking about someone else.


 
  
 I may have misinterpreted what you wrote as "you don't agree with me so your ears are wrong".  I respect anyone's views and opinions regardless.  I have been using it constantly since and I am beginning to appreciate it.  Thing is though, like with a lot of things, the longer you use it the more 'normal' it will seem to you, this doesn't equate to better.


----------



## Kriss92

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Do you have a mix amp of any kind or plan or buying any.
> I have astro mixamp and swear buy it. To be  100% honest with you, what brought me to head-fi in the first place and into audiophile equipment is a blog entry someone wrote saying how awesome the astro mixamp is, but ANY 150$ pair of head phone is better than the Astro A40s. That started me down a dark hole (don't get me started. just spent 1k in less than 2 months and don't regret a ******* dime of it!)
> 
> I am just curious. You found this particular forum thread. Did you not read it? Mad Lust has a billion reviews and recommendations in the initial thread. Based on his thoughts, my tastes, and budget, I narrowed it down to 4 cans and just bought the x1s. What are you looking for and at what cost?
> I really wanted the DT 990s but a lot of people talked me out of them because of the their high treble spike which really turned me off. The X1s were 40 bucks more but are 10000 times sexier and are supposed to have a much better frequency response across the board and have some of the best bass, sub 300 cans, for open back (please correct me if I am wrong. Also I have not opened my x1s yet, I am waiting until I get back to Japan next week)


 
  
 I am planing to buy one mixamp pro 2013. And first i looked at many headsets but everyone just had ****ty mics so i was thinking about buying headphones and then a mic like blue yeti or something like a boom mic instead. I Checked alot of forums and then i found this. And i did read most of the reviews numerous times and checked the prices in my country and the ones i listed are around the same price and since i want the best for the money i asked about it.
  
 But i have narrowed it down to the MA900's or the Fidelio X1 now. The Fidelio's look more sturdy but seems a little small, but that can be fixed i read, so that might not be a problem. But how are they compared to the MA900's for "sound whoring", is there a big difference?
  
 I have heard that the Mixamp pro has a pro mode for FPS games. How much better will it make them for sound whoring? If anyone has tried that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pro mode basically just removes all the bass. That would do the X1 wonders, and even the MA900 can benefit from bass removal if you want to soundwhore that much. Personally, I don't think removing the bass is really necessary for either headphone, as I can hear everything with both, and enjoy the sound. Pro mode sucks the life out of the headphones, IMHO. Unless you're in some tournament setting, I would just leave the mixamp Pro on standard or something.


----------



## NamelessPFG

salx said:


> Bad day at the office Nameless?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't say a bad day, no. Sorry if I sounded too harsh.
  
 I'm just a natural skeptic, especially on a place like Head-Fi where things regularly get hyped to the moon, people have different tastes, and we're frequently talking $200+ headphones whose purchases are not made lightly. On top of that, I've hardly evaluated every single headphone on the planet, so it's difficult to say whether one set is truly better or worse than another, especially given the subjectivity. I mean, I certainly expected people to be skeptical of my statements when recommending vintage Stax Lambda systems for gaming; I would have myself, if I never got to try a few sets!
  
 Speaking of subjectivity, the first thing you mentioned about the X1 was the bass, one of its strengths by most people's accounts, then followed it up with "bassless". Here's my question: what constitutes "bassless"? I'd say the AD700 definitely qualifies, but not many others above the $100 mark do. I found all those "Stax have no bass!" statements unwarranted, even for the bright Lambda lineup. I've heard similar things about the HD800 as well, for that matter.
  
 But other people might not be satisfied with anything less than a Pro 900, LCD-2 or D7000, for all I know.
  
 I do agree that the less cables dangling around, the better, especially if it means I don't have to worry about the cables hitting each other and making noise. It's actually the reason why I can't bring myself to part with the MMX 300; the mic that's built-in is just too good for me to go back to that old desk mic, and the headphone portion (DT770-derived) is capable enough for competitive and cinematic gaming alike. Music needs a boost in the mids to truly shine for me, but it doesn't sound totally awful to the point where I really want to reach for another headphone.
  


change is good said:


> Nameless, have you thought about giving the K612 a try?


 
  
 I have. Several times, in no small part due to that MA900 vs. K612 review.
  
 But again, I don't have the money to buy and review the K612, just as I don't have the money to buy and review the X1.
  
 I'd totally take up any audition offers, though; for me, Head-Fi is about broadening perspective. It's just that that's kind of hard to do in the world of audiophilia without spending some serious coin, and I must be lucky to ever have had the luxury of listening to those Stax setups and MLE's HE-400 to begin with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amazon has the KSC75 for $9.99 today. Had to reacquire it.

So if anyone has been ever interested in trying them... now is the time.


----------



## Kriss92

mad lust envy said:


> Pro mode basically just removes all the bass. That would do the X1 wonders, and even the MA900 can benefit from bass removal if you want to soundwhore that much. Personally, I don't think removing the bass is really necessary for either headphone, as I can hear everything with both, and enjoy the sound. Pro mode sucks the life out of the headphones, IMHO. Unless you're in some tournament setting, I would just leave the mixamp Pro on standard or something.


 
  
 Thanks, will buy the Fidelio X1's then since they are that good even without the pro mode setting and look more sturdy. I only got one problem with the cable. The one you listed doesnt excist here and i dont know really what to look for since they dont write what ohm the cables have. And i dont want to import.


----------



## Imperatore

I use Pro Mode on my X1 when playing Tomb Raider because I hit this button a lot that does a really bassy sound (instinct button) and it gets a bit tiresome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, as if on cue... an hour after hitting the buy button on the KSC75, my modded PX100-II shorted out on the right side... talk about timing. :rolleyes:


----------



## Kriss92

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bandridge-Premium-SAL3302-Stereo-Meters/dp/B000Y2RD1S/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1394200989&sr=1-1&keywords=bandridge+premium+3.5+stereo
  
 Are these better or worse for the Fidelio X1's?


----------



## Imperatore

I have no idea.  I was advised to get a different one as well despite the fact I probably would have found absolutely sod all difference between the original and the one I got (Fisual S-Flex)


----------



## Mackem

@Mad Lust Envy, I can confirm that the M-Audio Q40 works fully with the V-Moda BoomPro. My only (small) gripe is that at times the mic is just a little -too- sensitive in terms of picking up background noise and that's without any boost options being enabled.


----------



## Chubtoad

As much as I like the bass of the X1's, I still prefer my Annies over them. Both in comfort and overall sound. The bass on the Annies isn't exactly weak either, it just doesn't hit as hard as the X1's do.
  
 It would be nice if there was a way to get a microphone similar to how the vmoda is for any AKG headphone really. I know AKG makes microphones that will fit the connector but they are like 300+ dollars for them, that's just way to expensive for a mic hah.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I would love to watch IMAX without 3D, but guess what? You basically can't now. Stupid, stupid 3D.


 
  
 I dislike 3D movies very much. You might enjoy these 2D glasses like I do. Great for when your friends all want to see 3D and you'd rather be able to focus on the whole picture rather than where the studio wants you to focus. They make a separate pair for IMAX and RealD, so you might end up having two pair if your friends are like mine and adore 3D.


----------



## Prodeje79

mad lust envy said:


> Amazon has the KSC75 for $9.99 today. Had to reacquire it.
> 
> So if anyone has been ever interested in trying them... now is the time.


 
 Ordered! Thanks!
  
 What will I use these for again???


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> Amazon has the KSC75 for $9.99 today. Had to reacquire it.
> 
> So if anyone has been ever interested in trying them... now is the time.


 
 I would love to see this with an inline mic much how they do with the Porta Pro. Would pay the premium for them.


----------



## chicolom

roguegeek said:


> I would love to see this with an inline mic much how they do with the Porta Pro. Would pay the premium for them.


 You can get porta pros with an in line mic??


----------



## Change is Good

Well, after a full night of BF4 with my new XBA-H3, I must say I was VERY impressed! The most impressed I've been with an IEM when gaming, I tell ya! I was able to locate positional cues with ease, and the impact on the lower end was very engaging. Did I mention these have a wise soundstage for an IEM? Not wide like a full sized headphone... but definitely wide for an IEM... extremely wide for one.
  
 Also, the in-line mic cable that was included works with both the DS4 controller _and_ the mixamp. I was told this was the clearest I've ever sounded, so the in-line mic is top notch. Since my mixamp is too far from where I sit, however, I was stuck using the DS4 controller as my source for most of the night...
  
 I was so impressed, that I may just have to invest in a wireless 5.8 mixamp just so I can use my XBA-H3s with the mic cable more often for gaming. *If anyone is willing to sell one, holla atcha boi!*
  
 As far as headphones and IEMs go, this may just be end game for me. Yes, I said it!
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Well, after a full night of BF4 with my new XBA-H3, I must say I was VERY impressed! The most impressed I've been with an IEM when gaming, I tell ya! I was able to locate positional cues with ease, and the impact on the lower end was very engaging. Did I mention these have a wise soundstage for an IEM? Not wide like a full sized headphone... but definitely wide for an IEM... extremely wide for one.
> 
> Also, the in-line mic cable that was included works with both the DS4 controller _and_ the mixamp. I was told this was the clearest I've evr sounded, so the in-line mic is top notch. Since my mixamp is too far from where I sit, however, I was stuck using the DS4 controller as my source for most of the night...
> 
> ...


 
 I wish I had the money like you to buy all those headphones dude


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> I wish I had the money like you to buy all those headphones dude


 
  
 I'm no wealthy man (I'm actually in school and have a regular job). I just know how to manage my money and priorities... which in result gives me room to play in this hobby.


----------



## roguegeek

chicolom said:


> You can get porta pros with an in line mic??


 
Boom!


----------



## roguegeek

change is good said:


> Well, after a full night of BF4 with my new XBA-H3, I must say I was VERY impressed! The most impressed I've been with an IEM when gaming, I tell ya! I was able to locate positional cues with ease, and the impact on the lower end was very engaging. Did I mention these have a wise soundstage for an IEM? Not wide like a full sized headphone... but definitely wide for an IEM... extremely wide for one.


 
  
 Ugh. I want.


----------



## Change is Good

roguegeek said:


> Ugh. I want.


 
  





  
 MLE, have you been inquired, yet, about reviewing the new Mad Dog Pros?


----------



## Mackem

Also, sound from my headphones sometimes leaks into my BoomPro mic even though the volume isn't that high. Might not be related but should I plug the headphones/mic into the sound card on the rear of my computer or in the front panel?


----------



## Lukalop

MONSTER DNA? Wait, hold on a sec whilst I just firmly close my eyes and reopen them.
MONSTER DNA?!! No, must be hallucinating. 
Nope, MONSTER DNA! Next, you'll be saying Beats Pro rivals an HD800!

How on earth are the DNA's good. I have heard everything but positive feedback when it comes to monster audio so this is a first.


----------



## Change is Good

lukalop said:


> MONSTER DNA? Wait, hold on a sec whilst I just firmly close my eyes and reopen them.
> MONSTER DNA?!! No, must be hallucinating.
> Nope, MONSTER DNA! Next, you'll be saying Beats Pro rivals an HD800!
> 
> How on earth are the DNA's good. I have heard everything but positive feedback when it comes to monster audio so this is a first.




The review in this thread is for the much improved DNA *PRO*...


----------



## Lukalop

change is good said:


> Well, after a full night of BF4 with my new XBA-H3, I must say I was VERY impressed! The most impressed I've been with an IEM when gaming, I tell ya! I was able to locate positional cues with ease, and the impact on the lower end was very engaging. Did I mention these have a wise soundstage for an IEM? Not wide like a full sized headphone... but definitely wide for an IEM... extremely wide for one.
> 
> Also, the in-line mic cable that was included works with both the DS4 controller _and_ the mixamp. I was told this was the clearest I've ever sounded, so the in-line mic is top notch. Since my mixamp is too far from where I sit, however, I was stuck using the DS4 controller as my source for most of the night...
> 
> ...




An IEM for gaming = Interested
Just checked the spec sheet for these 3-40,000 Hz. That's insane! Compared to full size headphones for example Astro's, how do you think they compare?


----------



## NamelessPFG

This isn't the first time I've heard of IEMs used for gaming.

The first case was the EDGE Acoustics GX-400, basically an Etymotic ER-4P with in-line mic and volume controls.

Meanwhile, as for IEMs touted to have an unusually large soundstage for the category, the Stax S-001/SR-003 and S-002 come to mind. Problem is, those setups still cost as much as those centering around the circumaural Lambda sets, meaning they're still hideously expensive.

My concern with IEMs for gaming isn't whether or not they're good for gaming, but whether I can tolerate wearing them for extended periods of time. That level of comfort most likely requires customs.


----------



## Evshrug

Everything on a continuum, I'm going to overall side against native higher framerates in movies... except in certain circumstances (and always in games), and it has potential.




mad lust envy said:


> Motion Interpolation essentially makes 24fps content look like 48-60fps.



No, no, NO!
NOoooooo!
That's like saying PDL IIz makes stereo sound like DH when fed a surround source. I HATE the up-interpolated processing in the HDTVs of today. You know the artifacts as well as I, and that's half of the problem. Some parts of the picture stick in place while people "pop out" of the backgrounds, and equally bad is the muddy textures of things while they move.



> So, no, it's still very much the same as the Hobbit, albeit with artifacts and framerate stutters. The same effect is there, they both look artificial, and makes movies NOT look like movies but more akin to something happening in real time. That RUINS what makes movies movies. But anyways, you can argue that until the end of time, but I stand by my words. it's garbage.



I think that, the other part of what bothers you about higher framerates (besides not used to it in movies), is that it's so much clearer that you can see props and set construction. It's like watching a play, live, in a theater. So, I think that is what they call "the valley of disbelief," where realism makes things more and more believable until it's so close that it just feels weird... 24 FPS blurs the line a bit, more relaxed.

However, I appreciate it in high-action scenes. Blade II looked like garbage, so dark and blurred I couldn't tell what fancy moves were going on. But now that I've seen Desolation of Smaug in 48 FPS also, I have come to appreciate the better detail in action scenes or when the camera is panning.

In the end, I think that stuff like 48 FPS movies, 3D, and 1080p and higher all have their strengths, and when a movie was crafted to take advantage of them, it is a superior experience. With high detail and clear motion, production quality has to step up. With 3D, it has to not be over exaggerated, and be there for a reason... Like in "How to train your dragon" and "Up," 3D really enhances the feeling of scale and depth (and makes flight awesome). I think the high framerates thing will be action, and movie-makers will get better using it, and we will get used to better frame rates just like we did with gaming.




axelcloris said:


> I dislike 3D movies very much. You might enjoy these 2D glasses like I do. Great for when your friends all want to see 3D and you'd rather be able to focus on the whole picture rather than where the studio wants you to focus. They make a separate pair for IMAX and RealD, so you might end up having two pair if your friends are like mine and adore 3D.




Great info add, Axel. I should gift these for my mother, her eyes can't focus right in 3D movies and she just sees double. I'll look further into these.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Everything on a continuum, I'm going to overall side against native higher framerates in games and movies... except in certain circumstances, and it has potential.


 
  
 Say what you will about movies, but low framerates in games suck.
  
 It's especially noticeable if you've played a multiplatform game on PC with a full 60-120 FPS at 1920x1080 or higher, and then got a taste of a console version that ran at 30 FPS or less at under 1280x720 res. It's irritating and practically painful by comparison, to the point where I didn't see how people could enjoy Left 4 Dead 2 one bit on an X360.
  
 On top of that, fast-paced FPSs from the old-school days, stuff like Quake and Unreal Tournament and Tribes, feels best when you're actually running 120 FPS or more AND you have a display that can keep up (mostly CRTs, but certain recent LCD monitors capable of accepting real 120-144 Hz video signals qualify too). That buttery-smoothness is to die for. It spoils you and feels so real, so responsive...
  
 The downside is that it inherently forces me to either put up with lower graphics details or buy more expensive hardware. Some of today's titles can't even maintain 60 FPS on today's hardware at any price, usually due to CPU bottlenecks or other optimization issues. At least I get to set my personal framerate/quality balance, though.
  
 Keep in mind that I don't mean that HDTV interpolation crap that people mistake for real 120 Hz, but the hardware natively outputting 60/120/144/whatever Hz in real-time and the display being able to keep up so you can actually see the difference.
  
 Oh, and since Dolby Pro Logic got brought up again...I'll say it again: it's for decoding N64/PS2/GCN/Wii "Surround" audio mixes. NOTHING MORE. And even then, the signal is only decoded into its discrete channel loose equivalents; you still need Dolby Headphone or something else to position those channels properly for headphone listening, much as you would for separate PCM, Dolby Digital or DTS channels.


----------



## SaLX

Sorry, but I'm in the camp that would far prefer 24 frames a second as opposed to double that for my movies: 24 fps retains the magic of celluloid, whereas 48 fps or above (god forbid) makes it look like some guy is wandering around shooting the set on his HD cam. More isn't always better: it's too clinical.
  
 Completely agree with Nameless about games. Console players won't get this because their games are developed for a target console therefore they're basically optimised for it.. With PC games however, there is no fixed constant due to varied hardware setups. Also, when you hear some drub saying the human eye can only see at 24 fps, then give him a swift kick in his chuff - he knows nothing (see above).
  
 You can have 500 fps staring at the floor in a game, but when chickens explode and **** happens on screen, then the frames drop big time. It's the average and _minimum_ frames that count, not the max.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yes, most of the time, high framerates are a must for games. That being said, some games loss their cinematic flair when going at 60.

Games like Shadow of the Colossus were targeted at 30fps, per the creator. He could've went 60fps for the hd port, and said something along the lines of it not maintaining his vision for the game. I agree. Some games just look better looking like movies. Like Uncharted. I mean, I prefer 60fps for gameplay purposes, but I like 30fps for cutscenes. Call me old school.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lukalop said:


> MONSTER DNA? Wait, hold on a sec whilst I just firmly close my eyes and reopen them.
> MONSTER DNA?!! No, must be hallucinating.
> Nope, MONSTER DNA! Next, you'll be saying Beats Pro rivals an HD800!
> 
> How on earth are the DNA's good. I have heard everything but positive feedback when it comes to monster audio so this is a first.




Have you heard the Pros? In a controlled room, not a demo on a loud brick and mortar store. In the focus group, there are people who prefer the Pros over the Vmoda M100s, and others. The DNA Pro is the real deal.

Brand bias doesn't help anyone really. Now, you won't find me actively buying a Soul, Beats, or Monster, but it's not like I believe these kinds of companies can't make a good product. Hell, I've heard one of the new Beats is REALLY good this year.

Like any company, Monster has good products and not so good products. Skullcandy is another example. All that brand bias, and here they are releasing a really good range of headphones like the Aviator, Navigator, Mixmaster Pro, Slyr, and Plyr.

I was given the opportunity to try two Monster headphones, and both have been headphones I've enjoyed. No maybes or buts. They're enjoyable, period. The Pro will definitely resonate more with Headfi tastes, but the DNA On Ear is an enjoyable, consumer oriented heaphone with big bass, and full sound, without the harsh treble that consumer headphones tend to have. I've been using the DNA on ear as my main headphone for over a month or so now, even using it with the BoomPro. MUUUUCH better than the A30s.

There are well beloved companies that make crap headphones too. Like Sennheiser, Audio Technica, etc. Once we go past brand bias, you'll see that a good headphone can come from anywhere. People just love to hate what's popular.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I HATE HATE HATE, "soap opera effect" it's never made sense to me. Except I like it in video games because it CAN give some video games more depth and also the interpolation is only used on lcds and led tvs have great brightness attributes in rooms with bright lights so it can make the experience better. With movies and normal TV no doubt I love my plasma and even some lcds as long as they're only 60hz


----------



## DoctaCosmos

More frames does make it look more REAL but the frame interpolation makes it worse. If you ran a movie at native 24 for then ran on at native 48 (obviously not gonna happen) they would look closer to the same than a 48 native and a 48 with interpolation.


----------



## Stillhart

Random question:  My AVR has 3 DH settings (1, 2, 3) with 1 being the narrowest and 3 being the widest.  Do people just default to 3 for gaming for the wider soundstage or is it a preference thing?
  
 Right now I have my Xbone optical out going into my AVR.  From there I have my Recon3D hooked up and I also have DH through the AVR's headphone jack (it's an older HK).  I like the THX surround but I do plan on testing both to see which is best for me and I want to make sure I'm using the best settings.
  
 I have a set of X1's on the way and I have a set of Q701's that I scored at a local pawn shop for $150 (practically new, still in box, etc).  I will be testing both of those as well and selling off the one I like least.
  
 So far, the Q701 is great for gaming but kind of **** for movies and the music I like (Djent, metal, prog rock/metal, psybient, etc).  I assume this is because of the relative dearth of bass.  The high and mids are fantastic but a bit much for my music and the lack of bass sucks for movies.
  
 I also find them to be pretty comfortable but the bumps tend to start hurting after an hour or two.  Evshrug suggested using one of those baby seat belt pads, which I happen to have sitting around since I have two car seats and I'm about to buy a third (sigh).  I'll try that if I decide to keep the Q's, but from what I've read, I suspect the X1's will be more to my liking.


----------



## Fegefeuer

DH2 is the best compromise of echeoy and soundstage. Most devices use DH-2 by default (mixamp for instance)


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Oh yes, most of the time, high framerates are a must for games. That being said, some games loss their cinematic flair when going at 60.
> 
> Games like Shadow of the Colossus were targeted at 30fps, per the creator. He could've went 60fps for the hd port, and said something along the lines of it not maintaining his vision for the game. I agree. Some games just look better looking like movies. Like Uncharted. I mean, I prefer 60fps for gameplay purposes, but I like 30fps for cutscenes. Call me old school.


 
  
 You must like the typical Tales approach of 30 FPS in the overworld and cutscenes, 60 FPS during battles, then. (Unless it's Symphonia PS3, ugh...)
  
 There is one very important thing that makes low movie framerates more tolerable than low game framerates, though, and that's simple motion blur, best exemplified by taking photos of things at different shutter speeds. The LACK of it in most games is what makes them quite intolerable to look at, though quite unfortunately, motion blur is quite a hardware-intensive effect to enable, especially done right.
  
 Well, make that two things: movies STAY at a constant framerate, so it feels consistent. Games frequently don't, unless you're using Vsync and/or have hardware overqualified for the game engine, so to speak. SaLX made a very important point about average/minimum frames being the most important, and I'd extend that into 99th-percentile frame time.
  
 High average frame rates don't really mean much if you constantly notice stutters and split-second freezes jarring up your vision into the game world, after all.
  
 That said, if stutters and general framerate inconsistency aren't a problem, I'll always go for the higher framerate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, for Tales... I would like 60fps all the time. When it comes to animated things, or 2D things, 60fps+ is preferrable.

 Tales of Eternia actually ran at 120fps locked on the PSP for some reason (though of course the screen is locked at 60). That means the battles, overworld (which was 3D), and all towns/dungeons. The game was stellar to look at.

Eternia is one of those RPGs I could play over and over again. Same with Star Ocean 2.


----------



## Lukalop

Does anyone know the best IEM soundstage wise?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Stage Diver 3, IE 800 from my experience


----------



## musicreo

mad lust envy said:


> I don't hate change. I hate change that ruins what it's trying to improve.
> Precisely my point.
> 
> Oh, I'm very senstitive to framerates. Not many people are. I can easily tell the difference between 24/48/60fps.
> ...


 
 Everyone can see the difference between 24fps and 60fps! 
  
 After using motion interpolation on my PC  (SVP) I first was uncertain if it make films look better. But after 2-3 weeks I was completly  convinced. Now that I have used SVP more than one year   24fps films  look like crap to me. HFR and motion interpolation are great.


----------



## martin vegas

24p is different to like say a 30 frames per second movie..imax is 24p..i think it takes the best frames out of 120 frames per second and puts them into 24 frames but not 100% sure!


----------



## nissen1502

Review the Razer tiamat 7.1 and 2.2 please


----------



## SaLX

nissen1502 said:


> Review the Razer tiamat 7.1 and 2.2 please


 

 Alas, MLE, being a private individual can only review headsets/phones from his own purchases and from loaners kindly sent from posters here, or from actual companies willing to submit them for review (like the recent Alphas review).
  
 If anybody from Razer's reading this.... get in touch with the man.
  
 *** I wonder what the complete dollar value would be of _all _the headphones he's reviewed???***


----------



## nissen1502

salx said:


> Alas, MLE, being a private individual can only review headsets/phones from his own purchases and from loaners kindly sent from posters here, or from actual companies willing to submit them for review (like the recent Alphas review).
> 
> If anybody from Razer's reading this.... get in touch with the man.
> 
> *** I wonder what the complete dollar value would be of _all _the headphones he's reviewed???***


 
 I got razer tiamat 7.1, would gladly loan it to him if we would split the shipping prices. I just want to see how it compares to the others here


----------



## prankies

salx said:


> Alas, MLE, being a private individual can only review headsets/phones from his own purchases and from loaners kindly sent from posters here, or from actual companies willing to submit them for review (like the recent Alphas review).
> 
> If anybody from Razer's reading this.... get in touch with the man.
> 
> *** I wonder what the complete dollar value would be of _all _the headphones he's reviewed???***


 
 Given my personal experience with Razer products (headsets in particular), I very much doubt they are interested in having their cans reviewed by anyone with discerning/critical taste (or anyone that has actually listened to a set of quality headphones).  Having tried the Carcharias and Megalodon, I can say without a doubt that Razer makes the cheapest and most gimmicky overpriced garbage I have had the displeasure of using.  From build quality to sound quality, they are an absolute waste of money.
  
 That being said, I guess I have no idea about the Tiamat.  I just wouldn't count on Razer to make anything that comes anywhere close to a worthwhile price/performance recommendation.  Marketing to 17-23 year old gamers is their only strong suit, and even those attempts are quite painful at times.


----------



## SaLX

I'd be interested in seeing MLE review the Tiamat 7.1 at some point; it's meant to be one of the very best of all the multi driver headsets, therefore a comparison would be very interesting. I can't imagine the SQ being stellar but the 3D imaging might be good.


----------



## prankies

I've just heard from a few reviews that the actual driver quality is terrible in the Tiamat (because they had to include so many while still trying to keep a profit margin), so instead of a couple of quality 50mm drivers, you end up with a whole buttload of really crappy 40/30/20 (or whatever) drivers.  So the positional is impressive, but the sound quality is so muddy/imaging so poor that you end up at an overall disadvantage.
  
 But I guess for the most part I'm talking out my ass as I haven't heard them.  But I can't imagine dropping $200 on a headset with the lifespan of a Razer product.  I went through 3 replacement sets of Carcharias in a year before they stopped replacing them (their excuse being they were now out of warranty)--then my friend gave me HIS replacement Carcharias (his first set also died in 4 months), which then frayed out on the FIRST DAY of him giving it to me.  I'm a 32 year old dude who takes seriously good care of his stuff, and I didn't get more than 4 months usage out of any set.  This is just more anecdotal BS, I realize, but their build quality is just abysmal.  The idea of handing them $200 for headphones makes me shudder.
  
 But yeah, the real 7.1 might be a novelty, so I guess it would be interesting to have them reviewed.  I would just expect Razer to shy away from any truly critical review of their sound.


----------



## SaLX

@prankies: Also I hear the Tiamat's are very very heavy (as you'd expect).
  
 Thing is though, a lot of these 'true' 5.1 or 7.1 headsets get very good reviews with exclamations of 'fantastic bass, clear punchy mids and euphoric uplifting highs'...... repeat to fade. I simply cannot believe that in stereo mode (if indeed these 'journalists' actually switch to it) that 6 or 8 little speakers can sound as good as quality 50mm drivers. Plus, as you've pointed out (ouch).. there's so many more components in the mix that can go wrong.
  
 I bought a pair of true 5.1 Medusa's absolutely ages ago (stupid me) before getting a quality stereo pair (closed - ATH A700 - not that good, but were far better than the Medusa).
  
 @nissen ... what's your thoughts on the Tiamat (and sorry, don't mean to rubbish them by any means)?


----------



## prankies

Oh dang, I hadn't even considering the weight of such a monstrosity.  I was going to say that comfort was usually one of Razer's few redeeming qualities, but I can't imagine how they'd manage to make 8-10 drivers comfortable for long sessions.  But now to be honest, the more we talk about this hideous and impractical hodgepodge of low-end parts, the more I want to try it.  It seems like SOMEONE out there could pull off a convincingly awesome 7.1 headset, but to really do it right would probably end up costing as much or more than existing flagships, which is already too rich for my blood.  But here's hoping a company out there can prove me wrong!
  
 We have a similar story of Razer headsets driving us into the arms of Audio Technica--hearing my friend's $80 AD-700s next to my $70 Razer Carcharias drove me to order the AD700s immediately.  I was pretty furious with myself when I thought about how much money I had flushed on junk headsets over the years.  I guess in a twisted logic, it was Razer's terribleness that started my genuine interest in headphones.


----------



## conquerator2

Oh well my fat PS3 just died today. No fixing it. YLOD.
Worked flawlessly for 6 years but it suddenly passed away ;/
Gotta get the Super Slim now... Hopefully I'll get a good piece again.
I bet it was because I played New Vegas... That game is f'ed up pretty bad on the PS... will be a good test for the SS.


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> Oh well my fat PS3 just died today. No fixing it. YLOD.
> Worked flawlessly for 6 years but it suddenly passed away ;/
> Gotta get the Super Slim now... Hopefully I'll get a good piece again.
> I bet it was because I played New Vegas... That game is f'ed up pretty bad on the PS... will be a good test for the SS.


 

 You can get a next gen now mate!


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Oh well my fat PS3 just died today. No fixing it. YLOD.
> Worked flawlessly for 6 years but it suddenly passed away ;/
> Gotta get the Super Slim now... Hopefully I'll get a good piece again.
> I bet it was because I played New Vegas... That game is f'ed up pretty bad on the PS... will be a good test for the SS.


 
  
 I know someone, here on head-fi, who might be able to fix that baby for ya...
  
 Send me a PM if interested...


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> I know someone, here on head-fi, who might be able to fix that baby for ya...
> 
> Send me a PM if interested...




Thanks change but if he isn't from EU then it's not worth it for the shipping charges alone.
I am getting a SS for 199$ which is pretty good. It will keep me occupied till I get a PS4.
Appreciate the gesture though


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> Thanks change but if he isn't from EU then it's not worth it for the shipping charges alone.
> I am getting a SS for 199$ which is pretty good. It will keep me occupied till I get a PS4.
> Appreciate the gesture though


 

 Get a ps4..use the 199$ for a deposit in your local gamestore and just keep paying a bit off when you can..better than buying old hardware!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thing is, ps3 has a lot of good games coming out this year. Almost all my anticipated games are on ps3, not ps4. Thats why I personally wouldn't trade off a ps3 for a ps4 just yet


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Thing is, ps3 has a lot of good games coming out this year. Almost all my anticipated games are on ps3, not ps4. Thats why I personally wouldn't trade off a ps3 for a ps4 just yet




Yes, exactly. 
Thanks MLE.
Besides, other than the games that I already have that need finishing, there are a bunch that I still have yet to get.
PS4 will probably come at the end of the year.


----------



## Jordy7

I have both playstations and the ps3 gets 90% of my attention bcoz of the vastness of games available and their cheaper price


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Thing is, ps3 has a lot of good games coming out this year. Almost all my anticipated games are on ps3, not ps4. Thats why I personally wouldn't trade off a ps3 for a ps4 just yet


 

 Dark souls 2 being one of them..but if you have a pc you can play it..don't know why they never brought dark souls 2 to next gen!


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Say what you will about movies, but low framerates in games suck.




Eep! Didn't mean to say that! Originally I was saying I slightly prefer high framerates for both, but then I changed my mind that higher movie framerates are better in certain circumstances but can be off-putting other times, *and forgot to delete the games part...* I always like higher framerates in games XD

Glad you're still enjoying those K612's, Change. What made you buy the IEMs, just curious?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Juuuust out of curiosity has anyone tried the th900 with DH?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Or the he6


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm nearing the final phases on the DNA On Ear review. Just trying to eek out the finishing touches and corrections, and trying to word certain things properly. I'll probably take a break for a day or two.


----------



## Chubtoad

and prepare yourself to die over and over.. and then over a few more times.  (DS2)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Huh?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Glad you're still enjoying those K612's, Change. What made you buy the IEMs, just curious?




Thanks! I think I've come up with a nickname for em, actually. "The Overachiever"

As for the Sony IEMs... they were on my radar since day one. I just never pulled the trigger because of their bulk... till now. I said fuggit... sold my SM64 IEMs... and ordered them. No regrets...


----------



## chicolom

doctacosmos said:


> Juuuust out of curiosity has anyone tried the th900 with DH?


 
  
 Of course. 
  
 Is there something specific you want to know?  The TH900s should work very well with it.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Thing is, ps3 has a lot of good games coming out this year. Almost all my anticipated games are on ps3, not ps4. Thats why I personally wouldn't trade off a ps3 for a ps4 just yet


 
  
 Not only that, but the PS4 isn't backwards-compatible at all right now. Doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you want to play PS3 games that don't also have PS4 releases.
  
 For that matter, half the reason I bought my PS3 was to play *PS2* games! PCSX2 wasn't always working out for me, I never owned a PS2 for all of 6th-gen, and I generally preferred to have one console instead of two taking up space.
  
 As for the PS4's current library, I see very few things, if anything, that I couldn't just play on my PC instead. At least the PS3 had some exclusives going for it.
  


evshrug said:


> Eep! Didn't mean to say that! Originally I was saying I slightly prefer high framerates for both, but then I changed my mind that higher movie framerates are better in certain circumstances but can be off-putting other times, *and forgot to delete the games part...* I always like higher framerates in games XD


 
  
 Ah, the perils of stream-of-consciousness posting...it's bitten me a few times.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I only used TH-900+DH with the Mixamp (no amp in the chain yet), as I don't have DH on my PC. Recently playing through Infamous 2 and now I am in the middle of God of War: Ascension. The latter unfortunately still has audio issues but due to being a Sony title it has better samples than most games and when the audio mixing works (usually well done by Sony 1st party and in this case it is often really good but akwardly dies off or cuts off (not signal-wise but within the mixing process) the Fostex proves to be my most immersive can. Thanks to low distortion, fast decay and very good soundstage it's a ******* good experience. Don't worry about the bass woofering your ears. It's really "quick" (decay) and very detailed.  
  
 HD 800 is another reference for gaming but forget it with the Mixamp, only use it with the PC or a better signal than the Mixamp. This is why I appreciate more headphones that are higher up but still sensitive enough to run good from mobile and transportable devices. Very few TOTL can do it. TH-900 can. Use them on your receiver, smartphone, Mixamp, create a transportable setup. Not easy to do with the HD 800. My future will be with cans that are more flexible. I'm done with hard to amp stuff that glues me on my desk (yes, I could use long cables throughout the room, but really?). 
  
 K812 is another good option with very good separation, imaging/soundstage and balance (albeit being on the sharper side) and its ability to also shine from low powered devices actually saves it a bit in its competing range (still too expensive imo).


----------



## Echoless

Hi there,
  
 I just wanted to know if anyone has used the AKG K601 with DH here. Thanks.


----------



## kcazbarach

I just had two questions.
  
  
 1.- If you're using a desktop amplifier with the astro mixamp or (any dolby mixamp), is that dual amplifying the audio signal?
  
  
 and second, i was really leaning towards the hd 598 but with the crack issues (and I owned an hd 555 for years), and my current living situation I really think i want to invest in a a pair of closed headphones.
  
 So would the mad dogs by mr. speakers be the best closed headphone at or under $300? (I want to use the v moda boom pro mic too, and the OP confirms it's compatible) in terms of gaming....


----------



## kcazbarach

namelesspfg said:


> Not only that, but the PS4 isn't backwards-compatible at all right now. Doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you want to play PS3 games that don't also have PS4 releases.
> 
> For that matter, half the reason I bought my PS3 was to play *PS2* games! PCSX2 wasn't always working out for me, I never owned a PS2 for all of 6th-gen, and I generally preferred to have one console instead of two taking up space.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I'm kinda in the same situation too in terms of what to do for next gen.
 I play my 360 a ton, but I think I'm going to be going the ps4 route-However, I really have space for one console at a time (I guess i could make it work, but it wouldn't be ideal to have two.
 I just can't justify right now moving up to Next gen stuff, all the best titles on the ps4 and xbox 1 are all games that are already available on the 360/ps3. and the fact that backwards compatibility isn't available on either one just makes it harder-
  
 I'm guessing I'll wait until fall to see if I want to go into next gen yet.
  
 a few years ago i probably wouldn't have hesitated, but thanks to this head fi hobby-I'd much rather get a LYR or something than a ps4 or xbox one. (especially since ps+ and xbl gold are mandatory for next gen for online multiplayer)


----------



## nissen1502

salx said:


> @prankies: Also I hear the Tiamat's are very very heavy (as you'd expect).
> 
> Thing is though, a lot of these 'true' 5.1 or 7.1 headsets get very good reviews with exclamations of 'fantastic bass, clear punchy mids and euphoric uplifting highs'...... repeat to fade. I simply cannot believe that in stereo mode (if indeed these 'journalists' actually switch to it) that 6 or 8 little speakers can sound as good as quality 50mm drivers. Plus, as you've pointed out (ouch).. there's so many more components in the mix that can go wrong.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh im totally with you guys on thinking they got extremely bad SQ, cause they do. I replaced them with my HE-400 (love them), but i could clearly hear all around me when playing games like CS:GO, Arma 2, battlefield and stuff like that!


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Chicolom Thanks for the response. I actually started to write asking certain things but then I stopped and told myself the people that would know about them would just tell me the main attributes. I figured it'd be a good headphone for DH just wondering if there was any bad attributes or how well the detail retreival was for foot steps


----------



## chicolom

kcazbarach said:


> I just had two questions.
> 
> 
> 1.- If you're using a desktop amplifier with the astro mixamp or (any dolby mixamp), is that dual amplifying the audio signal?
> ...


 
  
  
 1)  Yes, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
  
 2)  The cracking issue on HD598s was fixed years ago.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm nearing the final phases on the DNA On Ear review. Just trying to eek out the finishing touches and corrections, and trying to word certain things properly. I'll probably take a break for a day or two.


 
  
 Please do let me know when you are ready for the K612. I'm going to send them out on a gaming tour, throughout the regulars on this thread... and I'm pretty much waiting on you. I'll be sending to you, first, since you're right next door and it will cost me less. These deserve some recognition among the favorites, here... and it pretty much will not happen until you review it...
  
 As far as the tour goes... I wanted no more than five people that I am familiar with. So here is who I came up with...
  
 MLE
 Chico
 Evs
 Axel (if you're interested)
 Nameless
  
 I'll be sending them with both sets of pads (stock and angled).


----------



## lenroot77

Hi so I finally made an account here. Great thread here...always a good read. Ive been lurkin for quite some time.

Im very interested in the x1s I see so many of u talking about. I currently use a pair of hd 558s with a dss1 and e11. I know the dss is probably plenty for the 558's but the e11 just seems to add a little more fullness, even at a very low level. Also have a 2011 mixamp...

I play console games some battlefield for fps's and then all sorts of other types of games.

My question is if the x1s are worth the upgrade? I enjoy the hd558s but maybe the x1s will sound more "fun" or immersive? And if so am I going to lose a great deal of my soundstage and positioning?

Just curious to hear from anyone who has heard both sets of these cans. 
Thank you!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Please do let me know when you are ready for the K612. I'm going to send them out on a gaming tour, throughout the regulars on this thread... and I'm pretty much waiting on you. I'll be sending to you, first, since you're right next door and it will cost me less. These deserve some recognition among the favorites, here... and it pretty much will not happen until you review it...
> 
> As far as the tour goes... I wanted no more than five people that I am familiar with. So here is who I came up with...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Of course I'm interested. I've enjoy the AKG sound of every unit I've head with exception to the K550. When my new toy comes in I may do a short tour myself since I'm packing to move at the end of the month and then I'm traveling most of April. I'm sure many want to hear the flagship goodness.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> When my new toy comes in I may do a short tour myself since I'm packing to move at the end of the month and then I'm traveling most of April.
> 
> *I'm sure many want to hear the flagship goodness. *


 
  
  
 Hmmmm???


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Hmmmm???


 
  
 The information is available all throughout this thread now. You just gotta know where to look.  I'm sneaky like that. Forum ninja.


----------



## chicolom

I forgot the Alpha Dogs were a "flagship."


----------



## Change is Good

T1


----------



## chicolom

Oh.  Interesting.


----------



## Change is Good

Yes, very interesting...

Though I'm a bit hesitant to try it. Not good for my wallet :/


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> Yes, very interesting...
> 
> Though I'm a bit hesitant to try it. Not good for my wallet :/


 

 I understand that feeling. I would stay away from electrostats if I were you, otherwise you may be temped to venture into the expensive world that is STAX.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Yes, very interesting...
> 
> Though I'm a bit hesitant to try it. Not good for my wallet :/


 
  
 You're telling me, and I'm the one that bought them  Definitely not good for the wallet. Hopefully good for the ears.


----------



## benbenkr

fegefeuer said:


> I only used TH-900+DH with the Mixamp (no amp in the chain yet), as I don't have DH on my PC. Recently playing through Infamous 2 and now I am in the middle of God of War: Ascension. The latter unfortunately still has audio issues but due to being a Sony title it has better samples than most games and when the audio mixing works (usually well done by Sony 1st party and in this case it is often really good but akwardly dies off or cuts off (not signal-wise but within the mixing process) the Fostex proves to be my most immersive can. *Thanks to low distortion, fast decay and very good soundstage it's a ******* good experience*. Don't worry about the bass woofering your ears. It's really "quick" (decay) and very detailed.
> 
> HD 800 is another reference for gaming but forget it with the Mixamp, only use it with the PC or a better signal than the Mixamp. This is why I appreciate more headphones that are higher up but still sensitive enough to run good from mobile and transportable devices. Very few TOTL can do it. TH-900 can. Use them on your receiver, smartphone, Mixamp, create a transportable setup. Not easy to do with the HD 800. My future will be with cans that are more flexible. I'm done with hard to amp stuff that glues me on my desk (yes, I could use long cables throughout the room, but really?).
> 
> K812 is another good option with very good separation, imaging/soundstage and balance (albeit being on the sharper side) and its ability to also shine from low powered devices actually saves it a bit in its competing range (still too expensive imo).


 
  
 I agree.
  
 I had a brief experience with the TH-900 on The Last of Us, it was just absolutely chilling... in a good sense. That hotel basement level was just fantastic. Never heard anything like it.


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Please do let me know when you are ready for the K612. I'm going to send them out on a gaming tour, throughout the regulars on this thread... and I'm pretty much waiting on you. I'll be sending to you, first, since you're right next door and it will cost me less. These deserve some recognition among the favorites, here... and it pretty much will not happen until you review it...
> 
> As far as the tour goes... I wanted no more than five people that I am familiar with. So here is who I came up with...
> 
> ...


 
 Can you, if you want it yourself ofcourse, also let MLE review the Shure 1540's?


----------



## conquerator2

HE-6 worked pretty well with DH for me as long as a hefty, powerful amp was added of course 
 The bass might have been a bit too tight for full immersion, but I still loved it,


----------



## DoctaCosmos

If I got the 6 then I would get the combo available to me with the ef6 for 1800. The air and imaging is what made me curious about it with gaming. It was the first headphone I'd heard with that much out of head height and width. It was freaky


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> You're telling me, and I'm the one that bought them  Definitely not good for the wallet. Hopefully good for the ears.




So... It would kinda be like emotional good rather than logically good, like a triple decker hamburger with cheese, mayonnaise, and 6 strips of bacon, topped with a low calorie bun, then dipped in chocolate and deep fried.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> So... It would kinda be like emotional good rather than logically good, like a triple decker hamburger with cheese, mayonnaise, and 6 strips of bacon, topped with a low calorie bun, then dipped in chocolate and deep fried.


 
  
 Don't think I'd agree with chocolate on a burger, it would completely mask the taste of that wonderful, succulent beef. I'm not much of a sauce person either. Prime burgers should be served with light sauce if any to allow all the flavors of the toppings to shine through and merge into one mouth watering palate quencher.
  
 I think the worst sandwich that I eat health-wise is the Elvis: creamy peanut butter, sweet banana slices and thick cut fatty bacon on your choice of bread. It's definitely emotionally good but terrible for my diet. Sometimes emotion just trumps logic and there's no harm in giving in a little.


----------



## Chubtoad

Does anybody here have any experience with the Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So tell me how I was playing with the DNA PRO today doing well in Ghosts, as usual. So I got tired of it, and switched to the A30s... and played with them for a good 4-5 hours.

No lie, today is the first day ever in Ghosts where I was consistently getting more deaths than kills. Like... BADLY. I know myself, and I know I'm pretty good at this game. Well, believe me when I tell you, I thought I was plahing in stereo most of the time. It was so hard to gauge where enemies were coming from with the A30s. Also, my friend was telling me that the inline mic sounded better than the boom mic that it comes with. What.

So...yeah... I got used to the A30s for tv shows in stereo... and that's it. It was...not good for gaming for me, and I'm being kind. At one point I had almost 20 deaths. Considering I almost NEVER go into double digits, getting almost 20 was a sign that the A30s were really messing up my game.

I'm disappointed. I went back to the DNA on ear, and went back to destroying people. This sounds like hyperbole, but it isn't. The A30s just did not work for me.


----------



## Sam21

lawl, put the hd598's back on dude....


----------



## roguegeek

chubtoad said:


> Does anybody here have any experience with the Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear headphones?


 
 For gaming, they shouldn't even be considered an option.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Why you using on ears? Surely mle has the nicest pair of headphones available for gaming


----------



## AxelCloris

doctacosmos said:


> Why you using on ears? Surely mle has the nicest pair of headphones available for gaming


 
  
 Monster has been sending him headphones for review purposes.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

No personally owned headphones? No truly musical headphone that doubles as a good gaming headphone? Or am all I'm going to read about headphone wise is what manufacturer sent him headphones for that month... No I'm not trying to be negative just fishing


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, on ears CAN be good enough for gaming. PX100-II did well for me, though I didn't review it because it was modified as a clip on and didn't sound as bassy and smooth as it did at default (the headband clamping force basically pushed the drivers closer to the ear, increasing bass vs the clip ons just letting them rest on my ears.

The DNA On Ear has served me well, despite it it being warm and bassy. Certainly a leap ahead of the A30s. The Ultrasone HS-15 that calpis gave me have also done well enough for gaming, despite it having some notable recession (still very early testing). It's S-Logic = Dolby headphone has paired well, in terms of soundstaging/positioning. I'd really like to try the HS-15g at some point, as it's an open version of it.

I'd wager the Momentum On Ear would work about as well as the DNA on ear, hopefully.

It's a shame I wrecked the PX100-II. I would've eventually reviewed them.

Personally owned (aside from Monster DNA OE and Pro):

A30s
KSC75
broken/modded PX100-II (one working driver).
HS-15

Out of all of these, the DNA Pro takes the cake, easily. One of my fave sounds.

BTW, all of these (except the Pro) are on ear (if you count the KSC75, which I love for all things).


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I've just never found them comfortable for long. I figured you'd have a go to over ear


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Ultrasone HS-15 is easily among the top 3-4 headphones in comfort for me. Headphones shouldn't ever be that comfy, lol.


Yuin G1A
KSC75
Ultrasone HS-15
MA900

Irony here, is that all of these are on ear, except the MA900 which does rest on the ear in a bit.

I'd say it may beat the MA900 in comfort. It's even lighter, and the padding is stupid soft and airy.


----------



## Lukalop

C





mad lust envy said:


> So tell me how I was playing with the DNA PRO today doing well in Ghosts, as usual. So I got tired of it, and switched to the A30s... and played with them for a good 4-5 hours.
> 
> No lie, today is the first day ever in Ghosts where I was consistently getting more deaths than kills. Like... BADLY. I know myself, and I know I'm pretty good at this game. Well, believe me when I tell you, I thought I was plahing in stereo most of the time. It was so hard to gauge where enemies were coming from with the A30s. Also, my friend was telling me that the inline mic sounded better than the boom mic that it comes with. What.
> 
> ...




Could you update your channel please, you don't have many videos!
What headphones are better than the monster DNA for hearing footsteps? I don't play Ghosts, just MW2. Tbh, I don't see how people like Ghosts, especially having played the prequels.. (except MW3, worst game IMO). I think ghosts is a lot more difficult than MW2 and more annoying. I was thinking of getting the HD809 to use with my PS3 but I don't know how I would connect it through a good amp. Do you use the astro mixamp pro?


----------



## Change is Good

Speaking of on ears, there is one last portable on my radar that I'm willing to try. If these don't work out... I guess I'm going to have just deal with IEMs on the go.

I say that because these have been reported to have QC issues similar to the K545. Its really a shame... because I was absolutely loving what I was hearing from the one working cup on the K545. But after two duds, it has led to to look elsewhere...

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-ES-FC300-On-Ear-Headphones-Red/dp/B008FQKKB0

Hopefully, there wont be any issue with these...


----------



## Lukalop

Need to ask you all an important question, that I have asked in other forums, but it wouldn't hurt to get the opinion of the gaming community 

 Nowadays technology wise, everything is evolving rapidly. Computers at least double their speed each year, get upgraded with better more efficient chips, as well as high resolution screens along with improved battery life. In 5 years from now they will be at least 32 times as fast as they are today (2*2*2*2*2=32) and there are likely to be even more advanced technological breakthroughs, maybe even holographic displays, who knows.

As for speakers, have we (as in manufacturers) yet to scratch the surface in terms of innovation and advancement i.e will audio equipment have improved in 5 years the same way computers will or have the concepts of acoustics in producing sound already been firmly grasped and there is only room left for minor improvement. Are advancements in sound dynamics incremental (i.e JH Freqphase) or is the relatively new Freqphase addition revolutionary?

To summarise, are speakers constantly improving with time or have the limits of reproducing sound quality already been reached?


----------



## AxelCloris

lukalop said:


> Need to ask you all an important question, that I have asked in other forums, but it wouldn't hurt to get the opinion of the gaming community
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 As time goes forward speakers are becoming more efficient, adding more features and coming in smaller packages. That said, my parents have a set of bookshelf speakers that are at least 20 years old at this point and still sing with the best of them. Can't say the same about a 20 year old computer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't worry so much about advancements in audio. The Koss ESP950 has been around for a long while and it sounds amazing even by today's standards. Same can be said of the Portapro. Lol, both Koss.

A good headphone will always be a good headphone.

Look at the Tesla Beyers, which is the next evolution of the popular 880s/990s/etc, and most people still prefer the older ones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The way people position their speakers and the treatment of their room is what will always limit first. In 99,99999% of all cases room acoustics will kill any further benefit, thus on a low level the future for me is a DSP based active speaker system that uses a lot correction (flexible crossover, compensating time delay depending on your seat etc.).
  
 And when your room doesn't really limit then most of the music does. Honestly, the recording part of the industry needs to do a better job again. TOTL headphones like the HD 800 and Co. are too good for most of the stuff. The recodings need to keep up first.


----------



## Chubtoad

roguegeek said:


> For gaming, they shouldn't even be considered an option.


 
 Why not?
  
 Before I discovered this thread, I was using a Sennheiser headset (although I have no idea what model it was, but they were basically on ear headphones with a microphone attached) for 6 years or so, I didn't seem to have any problems with comfort or anything.


----------



## Fegefeuer

benbenkr said:


> I agree.
> 
> I had a brief experience with the TH-900 on The Last of Us, it was just absolutely chilling... in a good sense. That hotel basement level was just fantastic. Never heard anything like it.


 
  
 Did you use the Mixamp or something better?


----------



## AngryGoldfish

I'm looking for a less bass-heavy version of the Beyerdynamic DT 770's. I haven't actually tried them yet. All I'm going by are the words of others, but in general I prefer a clearer, warmer, more neutral signature. I would like an airy sound but in a closed-ear design because I need the sound isolation. I recognize that this is an oxymoron, but is there something out there in that price range (I'm willing to pay more if necessary) that will perform well for music, video games (PC and consoles) and movies? From reading the first page reviews, it seems that all the popular ones are open-ear designs. Although that's the SOUND I'm looking for, one of the reasons why I want headphones is because I want to cut out background noise and stop my little sister hearing some guy getting blown up by a grenade. Any ideas? I don't have an amp, DAC or dedicated sound card.


----------



## Evshrug

*Lukalop,*
Cool thing about headphones/speakers in general, they don't become obsolete and last a good long time. They're an investment, so long as you take care of them.

The area that is developing and changing is in DACs. It's becoming cheaper to get a quite nice, sweet resolving, clean DAC. Amping tech has made a few small steps as well, and again it's getting cheaper to get really good components.

So, to sum up, DACs and some types of amps are advancing, but headphones are pretty well understood and mostly explore new tuning (and at the higher end, greater tightening of tolerance).


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
  
 I'd like to add that the V-Mode Boom Pro is compatible with the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. I've been using it on my X1 through my PS4's controller. Nice indeed!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks for the confirmation, Zombie. 

Hey guys...

Just a quick unboxing of the KSC75. Last time I bought these, it was in a different packaging, and it had a syraight angle plug as well as a puch and 6.3mm adapter. Now, it has no accessoies whatsoever, and comes with a better right angle pluig.

I also show how to bend the clips from it's fresh out of the box state, which is too separated from the drivers.

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrg-tYpj5O0[/VIDEO]


----------



## Evshrug

My KSC-75's came in a plastic blister-pack, with "Pulse" marketing on it. Straight angle plug. Also, the angle of the clips was already Quite tight right out of the box (the tail of the clip touches the Earpad, actually). This was purchased last summer, however.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> I'd really like to try the HS-15g at some point, as it's an open version of it.


 
  
 I'll send em out whenever you're ready for them.


----------



## dakanao

MLE, I would love it if you can review the Shure SRH-1540's!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys are killing me here, lol. I want to play Tales, but this constant reviewing makes me have to play games that take advantage of Dolby Headphone.


----------



## calpis

I probably would've tossed in some Grado SR60s in the package too just for the hell of it.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey guys,
  
 When I was doing some searching about something else, I came across some comments to the effect that MLE's review of the A50's was flawed because there was a firmware update to fix the bass or something.  Is that the case, or was I misreading it?  The A50 is available at $200 for a refurb and I'm curious if the value proposition gets better at that price point, especially if the SQ is better than what MLE heard.
  
 $200 for a wireless mixamp and a decent headset is not a bad deal.  I'm still not too keen on the wire running across the room for my current setup and I'm still tempted by the wireless of the A50 and the PLYR1.  They're both about the same price now (if you're into refurb, which I am).


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> When I was doing some searching about something else, I came across some comments to the effect that MLE's review of the A50's was flawed because there was a firmware update to fix the bass or something.  Is that the case, or was I misreading it?  The A50 is available at $200 for a refurb and I'm curious if the value proposition gets better at that price point, especially if the SQ is better than what MLE heard.
> 
> $200 for a wireless mixamp and a decent headset is not a bad deal.  I'm still not too keen on the wire running across the room for my current setup and I'm still tempted by the wireless of the A50 and the PLYR1.  They're both about the same price now (if you're into refurb, which I am).


 
  
 Just remember that the A50's wireless receiver is built into the headset so you won't be able to use the Mixamp with other headphones, only the Astros. For me that'd be a deal breaker and as such I've never considered the A50.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Just remember that the A50's wireless receiver is built into the headset so you won't be able to use the Mixamp with other headphones, only the Astros. For me that'd be a deal breaker and as such I've never considered the A50.


 
 True, but using a 5.8 and having piles of wires in my lap seems... not much better than my current setup.


----------



## Stillhart

And the black PLYR1 is back in stock at Amazon for $130.  I just ordered one.  I will soon have three headphones in three different price ranges (X1, Q701, PLYR1) to test for myself.  Looking forward to expanding my sonic horizons a bit and being able to contribute around here instead of just ask questions...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the PLYR1 was a little more comfy, I'd still have mine. Complete wireless freedom is nearly as beneficial as supreme comfort. In fact, Skullcandy could've just used the Slyr's dimension and pads, and I would've been happy. The Slyr was very comfy for me, but I rated it lower due to knowing that others would probably complain about it's pads fitting as an on ear for their ears.

If only Koss made a wireless KSC35/75. Omg.


----------



## Slayn

I really want to get the Fidelio X1's but it pains me to pay $230 when I saw it for sale on Amazon 2 months ago for $150...
  
 So I have a weird question. I bought an Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver to use when I had surround sound ( way too loud in a condo now ). The reason why I got it is because it has analog inputs, so I can connect directly from the sound card's analog 5.1 outputs to the receiver. Now I am getting in to headphones, and I am wondering the best way to set it up. Should I use the receiver, feeding the CMSS-3D to the receiver via optical? Basically it would use the receiver as a DAC/amp, but I am not sure if it is even worth it. I don't know too much info on the Onkyo, whether it is worth the hassle, or if I should just buy something just for headphone use. Also I can connect the sound cards analog outputs to the receiver, and then just plug the headphones in.
  
 I know this isn't really a "PC" thread, but I was just wondering if you thought the onkyo would be a good amp for the headphones. I have no clue what that thing can power.


----------



## Evshrug

Since you say CMSS-3D, I assume your soundcard is a Creative X-Fi Titanium. Optical would normally be the preferred method, though you ought to check it out both ways in case you like it better one way.

I used my Yamaha receiver's DAC and amp with great results. And it is a pretty entry-level receiver (but a clear step-up from the amp in a home-theater-in-a-box).

As far as the holiday deal on the X1... it's highly unlikely you'll see that price again for about a year, maybe it'll never go that low again. My suggestion is, if you decided on the X1, just get it. It's easily a good enough headphone to use for years, and in the great scheme of things (and life of the product) the price won't make much difference.


----------



## Slayn

evshrug said:


> Since you say CMSS-3D, I assume your soundcard is a Creative X-Fi Titanium. Optical would normally be the preferred method, though you ought to check it out both ways in case you like it better one way.
> 
> I used my Yamaha receiver's DAC and amp with great results. And it is a pretty entry-level receiver (but a clear step-up from the amp in a home-theater-in-a-box).


 
  
 That is correct, I have a Titanium, but not the HD. One of those Fataility Pro BBQWTF editions or whatever. So it doesn't have a good headphone amp ( the HD does ), but it at least has the CMSS-3D which I use now. I have some Samson SR-850's which I picked up cheap. They sound better than the scores of "gaming" headsets I've spent $50-100+ on, and I just use a USB mic. I think I will hook it up optical even now and see how it sounds.
  


evshrug said:


> As far as the holiday deal on the X1... it's highly unlikely you'll see that price again for about a year, *maybe it'll never go that low again*. My suggestion is, if you decided on the X1, just get it. It's easily a good enough headphone to use for years, and in the great scheme of things (and life of the product) the price won't make much difference.


 
  
 You're breakin my heart here  I'd bite at $200.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's here! Let me know of any horrible errors:



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

WHAT!?!!??! ONLY 7????
  
 Will wait until it costs 5$ during the Steam Holiday sale.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I c whut u did thar


----------



## Lukalop

As it turns out, a revolution may be on its way to readdress the audio scene. This just in: 
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/
http://m.inhabitat.com/inhabitat/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F#!/entry/516a2765d7fc7b5670ae4249&origin=http%3A%2F%2Finhabitat.com%2Fberkeley-scientists-create-ultra-light-energy-efficient-graphene-earphones%2Fgraphene-earphone-diaphragm-640x353%2F&oswts=1394625070291


----------



## AngryGoldfish

lukalop said:


> As it turns out, a revolution may be on its way to readdress the audio scene. This just in:
> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/
> http://m.inhabitat.com/inhabitat/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F#!/entry/516a2765d7fc7b5670ae4249&origin=http%3A%2F%2Finhabitat.com%2Fberkeley-scientists-create-ultra-light-energy-efficient-graphene-earphones%2Fgraphene-earphone-diaphragm-640x353%2F&oswts=1394625070291


 

 So there IS more that can be done for headphones. Interesting. The second link is broken by the way.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Pioneers I tell ya!! True American pioneers! I have a feeling this is going to revolutionize the world


----------



## Change is Good

Front page once again...


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't worry so much about advancements in audio. The Koss ESP950 has been around for a long while and it sounds amazing even by today's standards. Same can be said of the Portapro. Lol, both Koss.
> 
> A good headphone will always be a good headphone.
> 
> Look at the Tesla Beyers, which is the next evolution of the popular 880s/990s/etc, and most people still prefer the older ones.


 
  
 I find it quite telling that my current all-time favorite headphone, out of everything I've tried, dates back to *1979*. That's when Stax introduced a more compact, more conventional take on the SR-Sigma in the form of the SR-Lambda, whose basic frame design is still used to this day...and yet I still prefer those original Lambdas to the SR-202 in terms of tonality and sound presentation. So much for "newer is better".
  
 It also figures that the ESP/950 is said to share a lot of the SR-Lambda's strong suits, especially midrange and vocal reproduction, and most especially when used with a good Pro bias Stax amp.


----------



## miceblue

This is a completely random question, but I noticed that the link on the front page of Head-Fi conveniently links you to the DNA On-Ear review. I was trying to send someone a link to the X1 review in particular, but I couldn't figure out how to get to the X1 review in the URL. How does one do that exactly?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have been wondering that same thing, actually.


----------



## ChrisRPM12

Hi Envy, love your detailed headphone guide. I'm wondering if you are going to review the Plantronics Rig system because I'm planning on getting one for my upcoming birthday


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't even know what that is.

After the K612 review, I'll be doing the Astro A30 and Ultrasone HS15. After that, I kind of want a nice break.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I tok the pads off the a30 and there is a very thick piece of paper covering the driver. If you rub your fingers on the paper you will feel little holes. I poked out the holes and immediately could hear a much less veiled sound. Made it a much better headphone.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

You won't touch the driver. There's a thick plastic grill suspended over it. The holes are in the grill


----------



## pandaonslaught

I just got my K712 pros. Tested them out with the new Titanfall and they're pretty great.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I have been wondering that same thing, actually.




Maybe Mad just makes it super easy by posting his reviews separately in a post? They would just have to delete "Ok, here's my review, hope I didn't make many mistakes" and all the spoiler tags.

EDIT: Oh I see, they used code to jump straight to the section of his guide post with the DNA On-Ear. Clever. But maybe extra work? Lol.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Maybe Mad just makes it super easy by posting his reviews separately in a post? They would just have to delete "Ok, here's my review, hope I didn't make many mistakes" and all the spoiler tags.
> 
> EDIT: Oh I see, they used code to jump straight to the section of his guide post with the DNA On-Ear. Clever. But maybe extra work? Lol.


 
 I suspect the mods are going in and editing his post to add the anchors, then linking to the anchors.  The anchors have to be there to link to them and if MLE isn't doing it, it's gotta be the mods.
  
 So I tested the DH (using DH:2) vs the THX yesterday and I like the THX significantly better.  Maybe it's just that I'm used to the THX from using it for a week now, but I found the DH2 to be not much better than just plain stereo.  This was using the Q701.
  
 I'm curious if this may be a problem with my AVR because so many people swear by DH.  I have my PLYR1's coming in today and I'll test their DH tonight.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ASUS Announces the Essence STX II and Essence STX II 7.1 Sound Cards http://www.techpowerup.com/198852/asus-announces-the-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-sound-cards.html
  
 I'm guessing they replaced the CMI8788 with the CMI8888.


----------



## martin vegas

purpleangel said:


> ASUS Announces the Essence STX II and Essence STX II 7.1 Sound Cards http://www.techpowerup.com/198852/asus-announces-the-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-sound-cards.html


 

 Sounds good!


----------



## xEzio

Is the DT990 250ohm worth $186 on Amazon.com? Mainly for FPS.
  
  
 And have anyone tried the Psyko Krypton?
  
 http://www.psykoaudio.com/GetPsyko/PsykoKrypton


----------



## Cole Doe

Hello
  
 I am new to the forum and new to headphones. I found Mad's guide, which is incredible, thank you so much for this break down.
  
 I was hoping for a little advice to help choose my first set of headphones. I think I am currently torn between the M50's and DT770 80.
  
 A little info about my situation: 
 I have a pretty good 5.1 speaker system (Cambridge Soundworks, tower 300 mains) and an Onkyo receiver, which I have been using as my sole audio output for many years. I'm very satisfied with the sound and I live alone so I was never able to justify purchasing headphones. Recently I decided I wanted to add headphones for immersions sake, mainly when playing ps3/ps4 games (almost always single player campaign) but also for immersion in movies/tv at times also. On an impulse I bought the playstation gold headset but immediately realized the sound quality was not going to satisfy me, so I returned them. I'm now on a quest for proper headphones. I'm definitely on a budget as I never really intended to be doing this, but I quickly got a little ocd about getting the right pair. I realized that I will need a surround sound processor for the ps3/4, I will most likely be getting the mixamp pro. I posted a few questions in another thread re: the dss/mixamp here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/690663/ps4-with-3-5mm-x2-type-headset/210
 As far as the headphones, I had all but settled on the M50's until I started to read about the soundstage (or lack thereof) even with the dolby headphone. That led me to the 770's which I think, I would enjoy but its really tough to know. I don't game competitively so, that is not really an issue. However, I do want to be able to pick out sounds I've never heard and also be able to have a good sense of direction. I just finished playing The last of us: left behind on on ps3. I definitely want to be able to hear where all the clickers are when they are surrounding me.
 I guess my questions are essentially, will the m50's with a mixamp  be sufficient for me or will the lack of soundstage be too noticeable?  And re: the 770's, is the bass just too overpowering, will that be all I hear and become too frustrating?  I'm having a hard time choosing between these two situations. I also considered the the Mad Dog's. But I think between those and a mixamp it puts me too far over a price range I am comfortable with. I do want closed headphones. Also, I like the wire accessory situation of the m50x, that little detail makes me lean toward the m50's. I feel like due to the  extra short 3.5 cable I would actually use these at work sometimes as well, where the closed headphone, passive sound isolation would be so awesome. I do not believe I would do that with an attached long cable.
  
 Thanks in advance for listening to to all this newb stuff for what I'm sure must be the 1000th time at least.


----------



## NamelessPFG

lukalop said:


> As it turns out, a revolution may be on its way to readdress the audio scene. This just in:
> http://www.technologyreview.com/view/512496/first-graphene-audio-speaker-easily-outperforms-traditional-designs/
> http://m.inhabitat.com/inhabitat/?ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F#!/entry/516a2765d7fc7b5670ae4249&origin=http%3A%2F%2Finhabitat.com%2Fberkeley-scientists-create-ultra-light-energy-efficient-graphene-earphones%2Fgraphene-earphone-diaphragm-640x353%2F&oswts=1394625070291



I've heard of this before.

It sounds like an electrostatic driver, just with a graphene diaphragm instead of a Mylar one. Old tech, new materials.

Makes me wonder if the next SR-009 or Orpheus HE/90 will have a graphene diaphragm...


----------



## Stillhart

Hey MLE, is the PLYR1 supposed to be on-ear or over-ear?  They're sort of right in the middle to where it feels weird to squeeze my ears in em, but they're sort of half on/half off when they're on ear.  Your review makes it seem like they're supposed to be over-ear.  I don't think I have particularly large ears, so not sure what's up.
  
 As you mentioned, they are definitely on the tight side as well.
  
 Compared to the Q701, they're hot (pleather pads and closed cans) and they don't have nearly the sound-stage (assuming I'm using the word right).  The directional cues are not bad, but it feels really... close by.  Like it was kinda claustrophobic after the Q's.
  
 Sound was pretty decent though.  Obviously the Q's sound better overall, but can't complain about the sound in the PLYR1 for the price.
  
 Based off my little testing, I think I have to agree with your conclusion:  if you want a well-priced all-in-one wireless solution, it's tough to beat.  Especially now that it's $130 on Amazon.  I can't imagine the A50 sounds good enough to warrant double the price...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Plyr 1 had cloth pads, not pleather. And yes, its over ear, but barely. I have no doubt most people with find their ears touching much of the pads. Even mine. 3ven if you manage to get the ears inside, they will still touch the driver section.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> My Plyr 1 had cloth pads, not pleather. And yes, its over ear, but barely. I have no doubt most people with find their ears touching much of the pads. Even mine. 3ven if you manage to get the ears inside, they will still touch the driver section.


 
 Okay I just double checked and you're right, cloth pads, not pleather.  Not sure what I was thinking there.  I will play some more tonight with my ears tucked in and see how that changes the sound.  Probably a lot.


----------



## Foolwolf

Thanks for a nice post.
 I went for the V-Moda Boompro to use with my M-80's, arrived yesterday and performs really well!
 Definitely worth a shot if you have compatible headphones!


----------



## ecjcc

Hi, please I need some help. I already own a recon3d card with a pair of CAL to use with my ps4. I want to upgrade to a decent pair of Sennheisers, but I have my doubts between:
  
 1.- Recon3d + PC 360. So connected to the ps4 through usb. I would sell the CAL
  
 2.- PC 363D (dolby headphone). So connected to the 3.5mm Jack on the game controller (that shortens its battery life....). I would sell the CAL & Recon3d
  
 What do your recommend? PC 360 is 50 ohms and PC 363D 32 ohms. So does the latter need an amplifier (I don't see how to connect it to the ps4...)? Is it worthwhile moving from the Dolby from Creative to Dolby Headphone?
  
 Thks a lot


----------



## Fegefeuer

purpleangel said:


> ASUS Announces the Essence STX II and Essence STX II 7.1 Sound Cards http://www.techpowerup.com/198852/asus-announces-the-essence-stx-ii-and-essence-stx-ii-7-1-sound-cards.html
> 
> I'm guessing they replaced the CMI8788 with the CMI8888.


 
  
 Still Dolby Headphone. Lazy. They could have tried DTS Headphone X for a change or even GenAudio.


----------



## martin vegas

ecjcc said:


> Hi, please I need some help. I already own a recon3d card with a pair of CAL to use with my ps4. I want to upgrade to a decent pair of Sennheisers, but I have my doubts between:
> 
> 1.- Recon3d + PC 360. So connected to the ps4 through usb. I would sell the CAL
> 
> ...


 

 I have the sennheiser u320s that don't need a amp (they have a amp dongle type thing) I use the console over optical to dac then rca out on the dac to headset!


----------



## ecjcc

martin vegas said:


> I have the sennheiser u320s that don't need a amp (they have a amp dongle type thing) I use the console over optical to dac then rca out on the dac to headset!


 
 thkx, any decent DAC you would recommend?


----------



## Stillhart

ecjcc said:


> Hi, please I need some help. I already own a recon3d card with a pair of CAL to use with my ps4. I want to upgrade to a decent pair of Sennheisers, but I have my doubts between:
> 
> 1.- Recon3d + PC 360. So connected to the ps4 through usb. I would sell the CAL
> 
> ...


 
 I think you have the two models of headset reversed.  The 363D comes with the in-line USB sound card, the PC360 uses dual analog connectors.  I would assume that since the 363D comes with its own sound card built-in it shouldn't need additional amping.
  
 Personally, I like the THX from my Recon3D better than Dolby Headphone.  Given that, I'd stick with the PC360 and Recon.  YMMV.


----------



## ecjcc

stillhart said:


> I think you have the two models of headset reversed.  The 363D comes with the in-line USB sound card, the PC360 uses dual analog connectors.  I would assume that since the 363D comes with its own sound card built-in it shouldn't need additional amping.
> 
> Personally, I like the THX from my Recon3D better than Dolby Headphone.  Given that, I'd stick with the PC360 and Recon.  YMMV.


 
 You're right, the 363d comes with usb. But, even without additional amping, will it be deliver dolby audio? I mean, can I get dolby audio without using the optical output on the ps4? Thkx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Soundcards are all read as generic devices on the ps4. All you can get from any soundcard is stereo.

Without a dolby digital decoding device that converts to Dolby Headphone or other virtual surround via an optical digital cable, you're stuck. Mixamp-like devices only. If not, you think I wouldn't have at least mentioned others on the guide?

WITHOUT THE AUDIO SIGNAL GOING THROUGH AN OPTICAL CABLE, YOU'RE NOT GETTING SURROUND SOUND THROUGH HEADPHONES. Yes, there are receivers like Marantz and Harman Kardon, but thoss have been discussed. They can do it through HDMI or optical. 

In short, unless whatever device that is connected directly to a headphone has dolby headphone WITH an optical input, you're only getting stereo. That is it. The ps4's controller audio jack is stereo only, and is pretty weak.


----------



## Stillhart

Sounds like the Recon3D with optical from the PS4 into the PC360 is probably your best bet, with the choices you listed.


----------



## DJDREEM

Love this guide. Sadly I traded my MA900 for a pair of Mad dogs but I'm looking to sell my V Moda m100 to get a pair of gaming phones to replace my loved MA900.
  
 I really love the MA900 soundstage is there a better soundstage headphone out there that also can be fun and not too sterile like the boring K701?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That or the Mixamp. I prefer the Mixamp, but the Recon3D is a good alternative. I just personally don't like THX Tru Studio as much as Dolby Headphone. YMMV.


----------



## Evshrug

ecjcc said:


> thkx, any decent DAC you would recommend?



Misinfo, that u320 is a stereo headphone for computers. If you want surround with a console, your options are the two receivers Mad mentioned, Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS ($30), DSS2, or the control unit that comes with a TB ear force seven, Tritton AX720+ base station, PLYR 1 base station, or Creative Recon3D USB (which is also a credible soundcard for PCs).

Personally I own a DSS, Mixamp 5.8, and a Recon3D USB, I like the recon best with a tube amp plugged into the headphone jack.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> That or the Mixamp. I prefer the Mixamp, but the Recon3D is a good alternative. I just personally don't like THX Tru Studio as much as Dolby Headphone. YMMV.


 
 Yeah, or a Mixamp.  The only reason I mention the Recon3D is that he said he already has one.  That would save him over $100.


----------



## Cole Doe

cole doe said:


> Hello
> 
> I am new to the forum and new to headphones. I found Mad's guide, which is incredible, thank you so much for this break down.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I think I posted this is the wrong thread. I read the guide and posted here without opening up the forum and realizing there was a better place for this post. Sorry about that, I am going to repost where it belongs and see if I get any feedback.


----------



## zephah

Anyone have any real advice on what headphones or a headset to get for serious competitive PC gaming? I play CS at a decently high level and I travel to play in events so I really need closed headphones that are good. My budget is about $250. I understand how much better open headphones sound for precision, but it's just not an option because I can't use open headphones at home and then use a completely different sound on the road, I need consistency.

 I tried the DT770 Pro 250 ohms but the bass is extremely heavy =/


----------



## Murder Mike

zephah said:


> Anyone have any real advice on what headphones or a headset to get for serious competitive PC gaming? I play CS at a decently high level and I travel to play in events so I really need closed headphones that are good. My budget is about $250. I understand how much better open headphones sound for precision, but it's just not an option because I can't use open headphones at home and then use a completely different sound on the road, I need consistency.
> 
> I tried the DT770 Pro 250 ohms but the bass is extremely heavy =/


 
  
 There aren't a whole lot of competitive worthy closed headphones at that price point. The SoundMAGIC HP100 has some people that like it and they are sold for around $200.


----------



## martin vegas

ecjcc said:


> thkx, any decent DAC you would recommend?


 

 I use the arcam r dac!


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Misinfo, that u320 is a stereo headphone for computers. If you want surround with a console, your options are the two receivers Mad mentioned, Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS ($30), DSS2, or the control unit that comes with a TB ear force seven, Tritton AX720+ base station, PLYR 1 base station, or Creative Recon3D USB (which is also a credible soundcard for PCs).
> 
> Personally I own a DSS, Mixamp 5.8, and a Recon3D USB, I like the recon best with a tube amp plugged into the headphone jack.


 

 They have some surround..they don't just sound like a stereo headphone..i agree ecjcc should get some sort of surround sound unit.. I use the rdac because it's got good positional audio with a decent size sound stage.. sennheiser hd 558 and a mix amp or a dss1 or 2 would do him!


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Someone


zephah said:


> Anyone have any real advice on what headphones or a headset to get for serious competitive PC gaming? I play CS at a decently high level and I travel to play in events so I really need closed headphones that are good. My budget is about $250. I understand how much better open headphones sound for precision, but it's just not an option because I can't use open headphones at home and then use a completely different sound on the road, I need consistency.
> 
> I tried the DT770 Pro 250 ohms but the bass is extremely heavy =/


 
  
 Someone told me that the NAD VISO HP50's are very good for gaming.


----------



## chicolom

The FiiO Petition thread has been locked...
  
_OOOOOKKKK???_?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio/75#post_10360268


----------



## Fegefeuer

Lame, make a  dozen different MP3 players instead....


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> The FiiO Petition thread has been locked...
> 
> _OOOOOKKKK???_?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/699717/petition-for-a-gaming-device-from-fiio/75#post_10360268


 
 Time to petition Schiit?


----------



## gamefreak054

Why not ibasso?
  
 I personally always preferred ibasso's offerings over the fiio stuff.


----------



## Sam21

murder mike said:


> There aren't a whole lot of competitive worthy closed headphones at that price point. The SoundMAGIC HP100 has some people that like it and they are sold for around $200.


 
 There are, 
  
 CAL!2 
 KOSS PRODJ200
 A700x
 HM5
  
 and many others


----------



## DJDREEM

Would I miss out a lot of quality going from MA900 to AD700? How much difference is there is stage sizes


----------



## Change is Good

|_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________|
  
 ^That much difference...


----------



## DJDREEM

Woah lol even if I really want the widest airy soundstage with good detail? That can really mimic a huge open space? And don't mind a loss of bass?

Also I see you own the K612 pro how do they fit in?


----------



## Change is Good

I meant that's how much soundstage you will *lose when going to the A700 from the MA900.

The K612 is no slouch in regard to soundstage and imaging. Its not as wide as the K702/Q701and K712/Annie, but its still pretty wide. I'd imagine it would score a 9/9.25 in that regard compared to the 9.5/10 of those others.

Put some K702 pads on the K612, however, and the soundstage opens up a little more.*


----------



## Smuckerz

I just got my AKG K712 and Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro-250 headphones. I am so blown away at how good they sound! These are my first headphones I have purchased besides gaming headsets, lol never again. So glad I learned about this website and about true headphones. Shout out to MLE for the guide, you rock man!!!


----------



## DJDREEM

change is good said:


> I meant that's how much soundstage you will *lose when going to the A700 from the MA900.
> 
> The K612 is no slouch in regard to soundstage and imaging. Its not as wide as the K702/Q701and K712/Annie, but its still pretty wide. I'd imagine it would score a 9/9.25 in that regard compared to the 9.5/10 of those others.
> 
> Put some K702 pads on the K612, however, and the soundstage opens up a little more.*


*
So just so I'm not confused the MA900 has a wider stage? I might look into the 612 pro*


----------



## Change is Good

djdreem said:


> So just so I'm not confused the MA900 has a wider stage? I might look into the 612 pro




Yes the MA900 is wider than the closed A700. Its even slightly wider than the stock K612.

But aren't you looking into closed headphones? You do know the K612 is open, right? o_O


----------



## DJDREEM

change is good said:


> Yes the MA900 is wider than the closed A700. Its even slightly wider than the stock K612.
> 
> But aren't you looking into closed headphones? You do know the K612 is open, right? o_O


Sorry I meant the open AD700 I'm such a plum lol 

I'm debating between them and MA900 depending on soundstage and the closest to mimic and open space butvaldo with good quality sound. I don't mind losing a bit of bass for a wider stage.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, the AD700 is the widest of those two. But the bass is almost anemic...


----------



## conquerator2

The K612 have the most even width and depth of those IMO. The imaging is sublime and picking up cues in any game is a breeze. The ratio between fun and competitive is very good, I'd give them a 9 in both. Yes I really like them. Prefer them to both the MA900 and X1 for gaming and sometimes for music as well (depending on mood...)


----------



## DJDREEM

change is good said:


> Well, the AD700 is the widest of those two. But the bass is almost anemic...


Oh right, do they have comparable quality in the mids and highs as the Sony? When you says anemic do they not sound accurate for say explosions? Sorry for all the questions!


----------



## SaLX

conquerator2 said:


> The K612 have the most even width and depth of those IMO. The imaging is sublime and picking up cues in any game is a breeze. The ratio between fun and competitive is very good, I'd give them a 9 in both. Yes I really like them. Prefer them to both the MA900 and X1 for gaming and sometimes for music as well (depending on mood...)


 
 I always had my eye on the K712's: anybody here had experience with _both_ the K's 712 and 612?


----------



## roguegeek

djdreem said:


> Oh right, do they have comparable quality in the mids and highs as the Sony? When you says anemic do they not sound accurate for say explosions? Sorry for all the questions!


 
 The AD700 is very cool, as in lacking warmth from very rolled off low frequencies, where as the MA900 is closer to neutral. As for what's better, it just depends on what kind of gaming you're planning on using them for. Personally, I prefer the AD700, but also keep in mind that isn't the popular recommendation around here for general gaming cans.


----------



## DJDREEM

I play FPS online but I also play open world games like GTA abd Red Dead. These are my main games. Will the AD be ok for this?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700's bass is basically so rolled off, it's non-existent. If yoh want to hear explosions and stuff, dont bother. Get the MA900. Muuuuch more fun.


----------



## chicolom

salx said:


> I always had my eye on the K712's: anybody here had experience with _both_ the K's 712 and 612?


 
  
 Change has had both of them.  Not at the same time though.


----------



## SaLX

Ty Chico.. dammit it's so hard to search in such a huge thread..... Change.. any chance you could link to your post/thoughts please?
  
 If indeed MLE is going to review the K612, then that'll be a great read. Then again, the guy's needing a serious break from all this stuff as he said.


----------



## DJDREEM

I don't mind losing the impact from explosions but as long as you can actually hear it I'll prob get the AD700 if they are more detailed and open and airy.


----------



## CptHeadCrab

Hi guys, i'm new here and just wanted to say thank you for this wonderful discussion.
  
 Quick story first, I ended up buying Senns PC360 because i like their sound signature and fact of having a boom attached to them. The only problem, a critical one, was the fact that they're uncomfortable for long term use. Their clamping force is aggressive on my ears or sides of my head. When stretching them to full-lose-size they still feel uncomfortable. I am using my computer for long hours of game sessions and comfort is a critical part for me. I was so disappointed because of that. I think i can still replace them because they're in my possession for only about 2 weeks, but they're expensive in my country and replacement rules here are, well...harsh.
 As for my head- it's important to mention out that i have a wide head and that i'm wearing glasses. I was wondering, can you guys recommend me a more comfortable pair for gaming and overall pc usage?
 Are the senns hd558 will feel better on my head? Perhaps i should set my eyes upon the Beyers?
 Will appreciate any answer. And again, great topic!!
 (Btw- Pc got SB-Z installed, so a 250 ohm driving capabilities are there)


----------



## chicolom

cptheadcrab said:


> Hi guys, i'm new here and just wanted to say thank you for this wonderful discussion.
> 
> Quick story first, I ended up buying Senns PC360 because i like their sound signature and fact of having a boom attached to them. The only problem, a critical one, was the fact that they're uncomfortable for long term use. Their clamping force is aggressive on my ears or sides of my head. When stretching them to full-lose-size they still feel uncomfortable. I am using my computer for long hours of game sessions and comfort is a critical part for me. I was so disappointed because of that. I think i can still replace them because they're in my possession for only about 2 weeks, but they're expensive in my country and replacement rules here are, well...harsh.
> As for my head- it's important to mention out that i have a wide head and that i'm wearing glasses. I was wondering, can you guys recommend me a more comfortable pair for gaming and overall pc usage?
> ...


 
  
  
 The HD558 will feel about the same as the PC360.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheisers clamp in general. Not the best choices for comfort.


----------



## roguegeek

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheisers clamp in general. Not the best choices for comfort.


 
 Ehh. Everything in the HD line 650 and under have the clamp. Stark difference from their top tier cans or any of their portable offerings. But you're right as this thread does mostly deal with the clampy Senns.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheisers clamp in general. Not the best choices for comfort.


 

 Not as bad as Grado's!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yet nothing beats the HD 800 in comfort and forgetting having something on your head.


----------



## roguegeek

martin vegas said:


> Not as bad as Grado's!


 
 What?! You're crazy. Which Grados are you talking about?


----------



## martin vegas

cptheadcrab said:


> Hi guys, i'm new here and just wanted to say thank you for this wonderful discussion.
> 
> Quick story first, I ended up buying Senns PC360 because i like their sound signature and fact of having a boom attached to them. The only problem, a critical one, was the fact that they're uncomfortable for long term use. Their clamping force is aggressive on my ears or sides of my head. When stretching them to full-lose-size they still feel uncomfortable. I am using my computer for long hours of game sessions and comfort is a critical part for me. I was so disappointed because of that. I think i can still replace them because they're in my possession for only about 2 weeks, but they're expensive in my country and replacement rules here are, well...harsh.
> As for my head- it's important to mention out that i have a wide head and that i'm wearing glasses. I was wondering, can you guys recommend me a more comfortable pair for gaming and overall pc usage?
> ...


 

 When they start to get uncomfortable take a break..i play bf4 for about 3 hours at a time..I have a rest for a couple of hours and watch a bit of tv!


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> Yet nothing beats the HD 800 in comfort and forgetting having something on your head.


 
  
 I disagree. I would make that same statement about the HD700. But I definitely prefer the sound of the HD800 over it. The HD800 is actually more comfortable if you wear it backwards and reverse the cables.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> I disagree. I would make that same statement about the HD700. But I definitely prefer the sound of the HD800 over it. The HD800 is actually more comfortable if you wear it backwards and reverse the cables.


 

 I have sure srh1540 that I use with my MacBook pro for editing video and music on the move that are super comfy!


----------



## Fegefeuer

axelcloris said:


> The HD800 is actually more comfortable if you *wear it backwards and reverse the cables*.


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


>


 
  
 What isn't?


----------



## Stillhart

Random question again:  Is there any benefit to using a DAC when gaming on a console?  On a PC?


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Random question again:  Is there any benefit to using a DAC when gaming on a console?  On a PC?


 

 If you use a decent dac the sound in games has a bigger soundstage and the music sounds more detailed and more hifi like..dacs can't carry a surround signal just stereo so you will need something else to give your headphones surround sound for games like bf4!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> If you use a decent dac the sound in games has a bigger soundstage and the music sounds more detailed and more hifi like..dacs can't carry a surround signal just stereo so you will need something else to give your headphones surround sound for games like bf4!


 
 Hmm, so you can't use a DAC and surround, it's one or the other?  Or do you mean you just have to have it inline with a mixamp or something?


----------



## CptHeadCrab

I feel discomfort from the very beginning, and after half a hour it really bothers my head,
 Was wondering, how does the X1 feel? are they light on one's head? and how is the clamp vs the senns pc360?


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Hmm, so you can't use a DAC and surround, it's one or the other?  Or do you mean you just have to have it inline with a mixamp or something?


 
 If you put the dac through a mixamp you will have surround yes.. some dacs have a codec so they can carry a dolby signal from say a blue ray player but you will only receive the sound in stereo..so you would need to add something like the mix amp to get surround sound!


----------



## martin vegas

roguegeek said:


> What?! You're crazy. Which Grados are you talking about?


 

 Grado's aren't that comfortable even the ps1000's pinch a bit!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> If you put the dac through a mixamp you will have surround yes.. some dacs have a codec so they can carry a dolby signal from say a blue ray player but you will only receive the sound in stereo..so you would need to add something like the mix amp to get surround sound!


 
 So if I run a 5.1 signal into a DAC, it will only output stereo?  Once the signal is in stereo, if you run it through the mixamp you'll just have stereo, right?  But if you put the mixamp first, you've already done the DA conversion so the DAC doesn't do anything?  What am I missing?


----------



## AxelCloris

By definition the Mixamp is a DAC, as is any other device that converts digital audio to analog. You can only convert it once.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> By definition the Mixamp is a DAC, as is any other device that converts digital audio to analog. You can only convert it once.


 
 Yeah, which is why I'm confused.  So basically, using something like a Schiit Modi (or I guess a Bifrost for Optical in) will not work with virtual surround.  The Mixamp/Recon has to be my DAC right now and then I can re-amp through something like a Magni or Vali if I need it (like with a Q701, for example)?


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Yeah, which is why I'm confused.  So basically, using something like a Schiit Modi (or I guess a Bifrost for Optical in) will not work with virtual surround.  The Mixamp/Recon has to be my DAC right now and then I can re-amp through something like a Magni or Vali if I need it (like with a Q701, for example)?


 
  
 Spot on. While you can use something like the Modi with a game console you'll get more immersion and positioning queues out of a DSP device. The Modi's DAC is technically better but for our purposes it isn't as good as a Mixamp or Recon3D for what we need/want. Running an amp after the DSP is a great way to power a Q701, in fact that's how I ran mine for a long time. Console>Mixamp/Recon>amp>Q701.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Spot on. While you can use something like the Modi with a game console you'll get more immersion and positioning queues out of a DSP device. The Modi's DAC is technically better but for our purposes it isn't as good as a Mixamp or Recon3D for what we need/want. Running an amp after the DSP is a great way to power a Q701, in fact that's how I ran mine for a long time. Console>Mixamp/Recon>amp>Q701.


 
 Thanks, that really good info!  Lasty night I realized that my Q701's are on a different level from the PLYR1.  I mean, obviously, right?  But yeah, it's just so obvious after playing with the PLYR1 for a few hours and then switching to the Q's.  The soundstage is MASSVIE in comparison, the details are more defined, etc.
  
 I'm still waiting for my X1's to arrive (damn you, international shipping!) but in the meantime, I'm falling in love with my Q's.  I would love more bass, of course.  Evshrug suggested that a tube amp could help bring out more bass without sacrificing what makes the Q's special.  I was looking at maybe cheaping out and getting a hybrid Schiit Vali.  You used the E12 with yours?
  
 I still think the PLYR1 is great for an all-in-one combo that's just easy and simple.  They're no longer on sale for $130 so they're harder to recommend for $180, but I don't dislike them.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Thanks, that really good info!  Lasty night I realized that my Q701's are on a different level from the PLYR1.  I mean, obviously, right?  But yeah, it's just so obvious after playing with the PLYR1 for a few hours and then switching to the Q's.  The soundstage is MASSVIE in comparison, the details are more defined, etc.
> 
> I'm still waiting for my X1's to arrive (damn you, international shipping!) but in the meantime, I'm falling in love with my Q's.  I would love more bass, of course.  Evshrug suggested that a tube amp could help bring out more bass without sacrificing what makes the Q's special.  I was looking at maybe cheaping out and getting a hybrid Schiit Vali.  You used the E12 with yours?
> 
> I still think the PLYR1 is great for an all-in-one combo that's just easy and simple.  They're no longer on sale for $130 so they're harder to recommend for $180, but I don't dislike them.


 
  
 No, when I had the Q701 I had the Aune T1 as my amp. The Vali is a nice little amp but I had it after I sold off the Q701 so I can't speak to how well they pair. But the Q701 were my dedicated gaming headphones for the longest time. The Vali didn't feel quite as "tubey" as some of the other tube amps I've heard. And I hear you on international shipping. Just ordered the Philips L2's from Italy, it's going to be a short wait before they get in.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> No, when I had the Q701 I had the Aune T1 as my amp. The Vali is a nice little amp but I had it after I sold off the Q701 so I can't speak to how well they pair. But the Q701 were my dedicated gaming headphones for the longest time. The Vali didn't feel quite as "tubey" as some of the other tube amps I've heard. And I hear you on international shipping. Just ordered the Philips L2's from Italy, it's going to be a short wait before they get in.


 
 I'm not really up on the dfifference between a tube and a solid state amp.  I'm just going by what I heard.  I see you've owned both the Magni and the Vali.  Would you care to make an educated guess on which would pair better with the Q701?  My (admittedly lacking) understanding is the Vali sacrifices power to give you the tube sound, but it should still have enough power to drive the Q701 just fine...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I'm not really up on the dfifference between a tube and a solid state amp.  I'm just going by what I heard.  I see you've owned both the Magni and the Vali.  Would you care to make an educated guess on which would pair better with the Q701?  My (admittedly lacking) understanding is the Vali sacrifices power to give you the tube sound, but it should still have enough power to drive the Q701 just fine...


 
  
 I would assume that the Magni would pair better with the Q701 than the Vali simply based on the fact that the Q is a 62 ohm headphone. The Vali was designed to take on cans in the 250-600 ohm range.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I would assume that the Magni would pair better with the Q701 than the Vali simply based on the fact that the Q is a 62 ohm headphone. The Vali was designed to take on cans in the 250-600 ohm range.


 
 Cool, thanks again.  Anyone else with experience with the Q701 and Magni/Vali is welcome to chime in as well.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

No a sound card is a DAC. Just a DAC for gaming with surround. The DACs people talk about here are 2 channel DACs


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Would I be correct in assuming that the Mixamp is the only option for connecting headphones with a separate microphone to a PS3 and 360 that offers voice chat and virtual 7.1 surround sound?
  
 If so, can you connect the one Mixamp to both a 360 and PS3 and switch between consoles? I obviously won't be using them at the same time, but I don't want to keep pulling cables out. I know you can a 360 and PC together without messing about, but what about a PS3 and 360?
  
 Also, do all the needed cables come with the Mixamp or do I need to find my Playstation and Xbox boxes and route around for the cables?


----------



## AxelCloris

angrygoldfish said:


> Would I be correct in assuming that the Mixamp is the only option for connecting headphones with a separate microphone to a PS3 and 360 that offers voice chat and virtual 7.1 surround sound?
> 
> If so, can you connect the one Mixamp to both a 360 and PS3 and switch between consoles? I obviously won't be using them at the same time, but I don't want to keep pulling cables out. I know you can a 360 and PC together without messing about, but what about a PS3 and 360?
> 
> Also, do all the needed cables come with the Mixamp or do I need to find my Playstation and Xbox boxes and route around for the cables?


 
  
 The Recon3D can also decode 7.1 audio for both the PS3 and 360 and it handles both voice and audio. If you're wanting to have both connected at the same time you'll need some form of switch to select between the two. The necessary cables will come in the box to connect only one device. If you're connecting multiple devices, you'll need an additional TOSLINK cable; two if you're using a switch.


----------



## JHex2

Hey guys, 
  
 I managed to figure out how to get a set of headphones working with the Xbox One with game audio and voice chat using this guide as a core.
  
 Here is what you need: (What I used)
  
 Headphones (ATH-W11r)
 Surround Processor (Turtle Beach DSS)
 Mic (Modmic 2.3)
 Optical Cable
 PC Headset 2 female 3.5mm to mobile phone male 3.5mm adapter
 female 3.5mm to 2 male 3.5mm adapter
 Xbox Chat Adapter
 1/4 to 3.5mm adapter (if necessary)
  
 So it gets a bit complicated, but here goes:
  
 Headphones to 1/4 to 3.5mm adapter
  
 3.5 mm adapter to female 3.5mm to 2 male 3.5mm adapter
  
 One male end of the 2 male 3.5mm adapter goes to the DSS
 The other male end goes to the headphone female 3.5mm of the PC Headset adapter 
  
 DSS goes to Xbox one via optical cable
 PC Headset adapter goes to Xbox One controller via Xbox Chat Adapter
  
 Modmic goes to mic female 3.5mm of the PC Headset adapter.
  
 Essentially you're setting it up like a legacy headset for xbox one. It was crazy figuring out all the adapters, but I did it and it worked very well for Titanfall. 
  
 I hope these directions help someone who wants to implement this guide for an Xbox One.
  
 Feel free to PM if you have any questions or want to know what adapters I used.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Cheers. If I find the hassle switching them back and forth too annoying then I might see what kind of switching system I can rig up.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> By definition the Mixamp is a DAC, as is any other device that converts digital audio to analog. You can only convert it once.


 

 I think you should ask someone like mad lust envy about that..i am not too sure about the mix amp..there is analogue to digital convertion aswell as digital to analogue convertion in some dacs!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I think you should ask someone like mad lust envy about that..i am not too sure about the mix amp..there is analogue to digital convertion aswell as digital to analogue convertion in some dacs!


 
  
 Yes, there is analog to digital conversion, but the only way those are relevant in a gaming environment is for the mic input. Digital to analog is what you are using when you're talking about headphones and surround processing. Technically they are included in devices like the Recon3D and Mixamp but we don't really talk about the AD converters since there's really not much to talk about.


----------



## Hedonism

Is there a way to have sound on both a computer and PS3 play through the same audio system simultaneously?
  
 What I have is a Bifrost as a source running optical into the PS3, but that means I don't have an audio system for my computer whenever I play my PS3.


----------



## AxelCloris

hedonism said:


> Is there a way to have sound on both a computer and PS3 play through the same audio system simultaneously?
> 
> What I have is a Bifrost as a source running optical into the PS3, but that means I don't have an audio system for my computer whenever I play my PS3.


 
  
 There are switches that allow you to have multiple sources active simultaneously, or you could use certain Y cords (MM>F) to get the effect. You'll need to balance volume separately, obviously.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Yes, there is analog to digital conversion, but the only way those are relevant in a gaming environment is for the mic input. Digital to analog is what you are using when you're talking about headphones and surround processing. Technically they are included in devices like the Recon3D and Mixamp but we don't really talk about the AD converters since there's really not much to talk about.


 

 I have a adl esprit dac that I use for recording vinyl..it changes analogue to digital aswell as digital to analogue ..I am not sure if the mix amp will pass through the signal from the dac because I don't own one..but people who do own one and have a dac will know that..mad lust envy must have tried loads of different combos!


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> I always had my eye on the K712's: anybody here had experience with _both_ the K's 712 and 612?



Change is Good has owned both. He is loaning the k612 to Mad soon as the mail is sorted out, and a couple weeks after that I'm giving them a listen. Change hasn't written a review as far as I'm aware, BUT from all the conversations I've had with him he has been ecstatic about the K612. I bet the K712 is overall a bit better, but only if your budget can justify the price difference.



stillhart said:


> Hmm, so you can't use a DAC and surround, it's one or the other?  Or do you mean you just have to have it inline with a mixamp or something?



The Mixamp/Recon3D USB isn't just a processor... It also *is* the DAC in the chain. Optical input is digital, the headphone out is analogue.

If you sent a 5.1 DDL signal to another DAC like a Bifrost, the Bifrost would *not* be able to recognize the signal and you would either hear nothing at all or something... not pretty. A Bifrost could work for a regular stereo PCM signal sent over optical though, but it wouldn't be processing positional data.

I have to admit, I suggested the Vali because it's not very expensive (for a tube amp) while not being of crap build quality (like an Indeed or Bravo), but I haven't heard the amp myself. From the reviews I've read, the character described sounds like one of my favourite tubes I've heard with my Q701 (a Sylvania JAN-6DJ8 mil-spec tube), but I don't know for sure. That said, the Q701 has a very linear response to output ohms, meaning that as long as it can tap into a good reservoir of current, it won't matter if the Vali was designed for higher impedance headphones... unless AxelCloris knows that there is a different issue, where you have to keep the volume turned really low to keep the Q701 from sounding too loud.

The closest tube amp I know of to the one I use is Garage1217's "Project Amber," but that's a bigger price than I paid. I think garage1217's other amps are also a good intro to tube sound, like the Project Starlight and Project Sunrise II. The design of my amp is related to those, though it's closest to the Amber.


So... uh... Back to gaming headphones then?


----------



## roguegeek

axelcloris said:


> I disagree. I would make that same statement about the HD700. But I definitely prefer the sound of the HD800 over it. The HD800 is actually more comfortable if you wear it backwards and reverse the cables.


 
 Agree. The both are no slouch in terms of comfort, but the HD 700 is hands downs more comfortable. I would even say the most comfortable full-sized can on the market.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> I have a adl esprit dac that I use for recording vinyl..it changes analogue to digital aswell as digital to analogue ..I am not sure if the mix amp will pass through the signal from the dac because I don't own one..but people who do own one and have a dac will know that..mad lust envy must have tried loads of different combos!


 
  
 Honestly there's really no reason to use a Mixamp with vinyl since it won't be adding anything. Since we're in the gaming guide I've been responding on the assumption that people posting questions are asking in regards to gaming with a DSP. You can run an analog signal into a Mixamp but if so then you're not properly utilizing it. And converting analog vinyl to digital to run it through a Mixamp does nothing since vinyl isn't encoded into Dolby Digital 5.1 when it runs through an AD converter.
  
 I have owned the Mixamp alongside other DACs and the only reason to run multiple DACs, so to speak, is in when you can't output 5.1 from a computer. You would use something like a Xonar U3 to output a 5.1 digital signal into an external DAC. That way the U3 is processing the signal for Dolby Headphone but it isn't converting the signal to analog, that's for the DAC further down the chain. The U3 has a DAC built in but you won't be utilizing it for that purpose.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Honestly there's really no reason to use a Mixamp with vinyl since it won't be adding anything. Since we're in the gaming guide I've been responding on the assumption that people posting questions are asking in regards to gaming with a DSP. You can run an analog signal into a Mixamp but if so then you're not properly utilizing it. And converting analog vinyl to digital to run it through a Mixamp does nothing since vinyl isn't encoded into Dolby Digital 5.1 when it runs through an AD converter.
> 
> I have owned the Mixamp alongside other DACs and the only reason to run multiple DACs, so to speak, is in when you can't output 5.1 from a computer. You would use something like a Xonar U3 to output a 5.1 digital signal into an external DAC. That way the U3 is processing the signal for Dolby Headphone but it isn't converting the signal to analog, that's for the DAC further down the chain. The U3 has a DAC built in but you won't be utilizing it for that purpose.


 

 No I didn't mean that,i was just saying that some dacs have adc aswell as dac conversion.. I think Evshrug has said that they won't be any sound with a dac to a mix amp combo anyway, but thanks for taking the time axel!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> No I didn't mean that,i was just saying that some dacs have adc aswell as dac conversion.. I think Evshrug has said that they won't be any sound with a dac to a mix amp combo anyway, but thanks for taking the time axel!


 
  
 Not a problem. I just don't want people who are new to the thread to possibly get confused by introducing the topic of AD converters. Since you're a vinyl user you understand what they do but someone coming here for the first time who's been raised on mp3s and iPods might get the wrong idea.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I have owned the Mixamp alongside other DACs and the only reason to run multiple DACs, so to speak, is in when you can't output 5.1 from a computer. You would use something like a Xonar U3 to output a 5.1 digital signal into an external DAC. That way the U3 is processing the signal for Dolby Headphone but it isn't converting the signal to analog, that's for the DAC further down the chain. The U3 has a DAC built in but you won't be utilizing it for that purpose.


 
 See now this is what I was wondering about with my original question.  It seems it's possible to get the best of both worlds, but you have to be on a PC.  Sounds card does the 5.1->stereo virtual surround conversion but still outputs digital stereo to good DAC/Amp combo.
  
 I hope that if/when the PS4 and Xbone can do the on-board virtual surround processing, you can just slap a DAC/Amp combo on there for awesome sound.  Plug the mic from the headset directly into the controller and you're done.  (See how I brought that back around to console gaming?  lol)


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> See now this is what I was wondering about with my original question.  It seems it's possible to get the best of both worlds, but you have to be on a PC.  Sounds card does the 5.1->stereo virtual surround conversion but still outputs digital stereo to good DAC/Amp combo.
> 
> I hope that if/when the PS4 and Xbone can do the on-board virtual surround processing, you can just slap a DAC/Amp combo on there for awesome sound.  Plug the mic from the headset directly into the controller and you're done.  (See how I brought that back around to console gaming?  lol)


 
  
 I'd love for developers to start taking advantage of the DSPs included with consoles. The Xbone and PS4 already have hardware that can handle it, but the developers don't program the audio in a way to take advantage of it. When I'm at PAX East next month I'll be asking every console developer about it since the PS4 was showing off the hardware for AMD TrueAudio; hopefully someone is going to start using it in the next year or so. But with devices like the Mixamp and Recon3D out there, there's not a whole lot of incentive for them to take the time to implement the audio.


----------



## Stillhart

hedonism said:


> Is there a way to have sound on both a computer and PS3 play through the same audio system simultaneously?
> 
> What I have is a Bifrost as a source running optical into the PS3, but that means I don't have an audio system for my computer whenever I play my PS3.


 
 I just found this on Monoprice:  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2
  
 It's a 3-way optical switch, which should let you switch your input from PS3 to PC with the flip of a switch.  You won't be able to listen to both simultaneously, but I don't think that's what you were asking.
  
 I may use this to setup my system like this:
  
 Xbox->Switch->Recon->AVR (for Amping)->Headphones
 Xbox->Switch->AVR->5.1 Speakers
  
 This lets me use the AVR as a headphone amp to boost the output of the Recon, while easily letting me use it for regular speakers as well.  My current setup will let me use the AVR and the Recon at the same time, but the AVR comes before the Recon so I can't use it to amp.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I just found this on Monoprice:  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2
> 
> It's a 3-way optical switch, which should let you switch your input from PS3 to PC with the flip of a switch.  You won't be able to listen to both simultaneously, but I don't think that's what you were asking.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Actually I think Hedonism was wanting both to play together. Chicolom owns this puppy and I recall him saying that it can have multiple sources active simultaneously, allowing for a mix of the two/three/four. Downside is that it's RCA and 1/8" only, so you'll need to have the right connections for it.


----------



## Manel

Hi,
  
 I listen to a lot of music, a little bit of everything, from rock to pop, from blues to metal, from alternative to folk. Oh, and classical and choral music when I'm working or relaxing.
  
 Basically, Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Cranberries, Coldplay, Beatles, Queen, Eddie Vedder, Eric Clapton, Dire Straits, SOAD, Iron Maiden, Mumford and Sons + classical music + recent hits.
  
 I can get the HD650s used (bought last December from Amazon.fr) for 250€. On the other hand, the HD600s cost me about 270/280€ new, shipped from there too. Which ones would you recommend to me?
  
 I must state I'll also be doing gaming and plan on pairing the headphones up with a ZxR soundcard or this new iteration of the Essence STX.
  
 The guy who is selling me the HD650s also has the HD598s for sale for 100€, and I arranged an audition of the two headphones with him. Do you think the 598s can complement the HD650s in any way, or if I buy the 650s there should be no point in getting the HD598s too?


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> No I didn't mean that, I was just saying that some dacs have adc as well as dac conversion.. I _think_ Evshrug has said that they won't be any sound with a dac to a mix amp combo anyway, but thanks for taking the time axel!



That's not what I was saying, let me try again to clarify:
A typical DAC can only convert a stereo signal to stereo analogue. So if a console sends DDL 5.1 to a Bifrost, *you're gonna have a bad time.*

 A Mixamp will take a digital surround signal (Dolby Digital Live 5.1, which is actually a bit compressed to fit in the bandwidth of an optical cable), use a *DSP* (Digital Signal Processor) to convert that *DDL* signal to a stereo signal specially processed with *DH* (Dolby Headphone) to sound _like_ a 5.1 speaker setup, then the Mixamp uses it's *DAC* (Digital to Analogue Converter) to convert the stereo specially mixed with *DH* into stereo analogue, and then amps it (a bit) so the user can control volume.





axelcloris said:


> Actually I think Hedonism was wanting both to play together. Chicolom owns this puppy and I recall him saying that it can have multiple sources active simultaneously, allowing for a mix of the two/three/four. Downside is that it's RCA and 1/8" only, so you'll need to have the right connections for it.



Thanks for finding that, I forgot what it was called or where it could be bought.

Incidentally, both the Mixamp and DSS have auxiliary stereo 3.5mm inputs, designed to allow gamers to play music while gaming, but you could feasibly add any stereo analogue audio to the "mix." That doesn't solve Stillhart's puzzle (the accessory you linked does), but just sharing for everyone's info 

[so, just to confuse Martin Vegas since there would be no point in doing this, with a Mixamp's aux analogue input you technically could connect a bifrost's analogue output to the Mixamp, but you wouldn't want to because the audio quality would be cut down to the Mixamp's quality level.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> I just found this on Monoprice:  http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2946&seq=1&format=2
> 
> It's a 3-way optical switch, which should let you switch your input from PS3 to PC with the flip of a switch.  You won't be able to listen to both simultaneously, but I don't think that's what you were asking.
> 
> ...




Had two of those switches... and they both messed up.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Had two of those switches... and they both messed up.


 
 Good to know.  The reviews on Amazon seem to say the same thing.  There's a $15 one on Amazon that looks similar but has fewer bad reviews...
  
 Might just stick with my current setup and drop $100 on a Magni and be done with it.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Good to know.  The reviews on Amazon seem to say the same thing.  There's a $15 one on Amazon that looks similar but has fewer bad reviews...
> 
> Might just stick with my current setup and drop $100 on a Magni and *be done with it*.


 
  
 As long as you don't catch the bug that's going around, as of late... _upgrade-itis_


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> As long as you don't catch the bug that's going around, as of late... _upgrade-itis_


 
  
 Frickin' hate that bug. I have the T1s coming, the Alpha Dogs coming, and still I ordered a pair of Philips L2s from Italy. But hey, at least I've sold a bunch of ones I haven't used in a while. Though it sucks to be sitting here for the moment with the HD650s as my main headphones. Believe me they're no slouch, but new toy syndrome can be a bitch.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> As long as you don't catch the bug that's going around, as of late... _upgrade-itis_



It's *RAAAAAAAMPant!!!!*


P.S. Is anybody getting weird pics/adds when trying to click things in the mobile version of the site? I got this when I tapped the "quote" button to Change's post:


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Frickin' hate that bug. I have the T1s coming, the Alpha Dogs coming, and still I ordered a pair of Philips L2s from Italy. But hey, at least I've sold a bunch of ones I haven't used in a while. Though it sucks to be sitting here for the moment with the HD650s as my main headphones. Believe me they're no slouch, but new toy syndrome can be a bitch.


 
  
 You got it bad, my friend! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


evshrug said:


> It's *RAAAAAAAMPant!!!!*
> 
> 
> P.S. Is anybody getting weird pics/adds when trying to click things in the mobile version of the site? I got this when I tapped the "quote" button to Change's post:


 
  
 Yea, I've been getting pop-ups on my phone when visiting head-fi, as well. Even with a pop-up blocker on my Nexus 5, they still manage to open a new window in my chrome browser...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> As long as you don't catch the bug that's going around, as of late... _upgrade-itis_


 
 Don't worry, I have a wife and baby.  It'll be DAYS before I think of spending more...
  
 I mean, I'm definitely not thinking about getting a sound card for my PC so I can swap my headphones back and forth.  I'd be CRAZY to think about keeping both the X1 and the Q701 so I don't have to swap as much.  And only an idiot would consider getting a Magni and a Vali just to hear the difference and then keep both because they need an amp on the Xbox and the PC.
  
 Yes, sir, I'm good to go.  No updrade-itis here...


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> *Don't worry, I have a wife and baby.  It'll be DAYS before I think of spending more...*
> 
> I mean, I'm definitely not thinking about getting a sound card for my PC so I can swap my headphones back and forth.  I'd be CRAZY to think about keeping both the X1 and the Q701 so I don't have to swap as much.  And only an idiot would consider getting a Magni and a Vali just to hear the difference and then keep both because they need an amp on the Xbox and the PC.
> 
> *Yes, sir, I'm good to go.  No updrade-itis here...*


 
  
 There are many, here on head-fi, that have wives and kids. Axel even just bought a house, I think... and look at him...
  
 You just wait... it's very contagious... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Better amps to consider for the Q701 are the Matrix M-Stage, Schiit Asgard 2, and iFi Micro iCAN...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> There are many, here on head-fi, that have wives and kids. Axel even just bought a house, I think... and look at him...
> 
> You just wait... it's very contagious...
> 
> ...


 
 Oh you're SO not helping.  >.<
  
 Also, I read in the Vali thread that I'm better off spending more on a DAC than an amp or cans because you can't amplify lost sound.  So Bifrost Uber if I'm going to upgrade.  Then maybe a Valhalla.  Not that I've researched that at all...


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Don't worry, I have a wife and baby.  It'll be DAYS before I think of spending more...
> 
> I mean, I'm definitely not thinking about getting a sound card for my PC so I can swap my headphones back and forth.  I'd be CRAZY to think about keeping both the X1 and the Q701 so I don't have to swap as much.  *And only an idiot would consider getting a Magni and a Vali just to hear the difference and then keep both because they need an amp on the Xbox and the PC.*
> 
> Yes, sir, I'm good to go.  No updrade-itis here...


 
  
 And... I have the Asgard 2 on my desktop... and the M-Stage in the living room where my PS4 is...
  
 Guess that makes me an _idiot_? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


stillhart said:


> *Oh you're SO not helping.  >.<*
> 
> Also, I read in the Vali thread that I'm better off spending more on a DAC than an amp or cans because you can't amplify lost sound.  So Bifrost Uber if I'm going to upgrade.  Then maybe a Valhalla.  Not that I've researched that at all...


 
  
 Glad I could help!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> And... I have the Asgard 2 on my desktop... and the M-Stage in the living room where my PS4 is...
> 
> Guess that makes me an _idiot_?
> 
> ...


 
 I'm still in my research phase.  We'll see how big of an idiot I am in a few more weeks.  Either way, I hope to be a more educated idiot by the time I'm done with the first pass of buying stuff.
  
 Then hopefully I can enjoy it all for a bit before... _The CRAVING _sets in...


----------



## ExpatinJapan

PS4 audio help.
  
Audio output Troubles with headphones.

I am having trouble getting the right settings as I did with the ps3 for headphones/mic.

PS3 >optical cable >Victor SU-DH1 dolby amp >ATH-A900 headphones (PS3 settings to optical out).
Headset mic setting was for chat to come through the headphones.

PS4
I have tried multiple settings, but the choices seem slimmer than on the PS3.
PS4 > optical cable > Victor SU-DH1 dolby amp > ATH-A900 headphones.

1). sound comes out from both the TV and headphones (kludge fix -turn down the TV or mute it).

2). Yes, I know the supplied mic is .......bad.
I have tried the different audio settings and party chat - but couldnt seem to find a way to output chat to my main headphones, if i set it to All audio the game audio only comes out of the Chat Mic piece. (kludge fix - have the ear piece inside my main headphones).

___________________
  
Any help/ideas or do I have to wait for a future PS4 update?
  
Thanks
expat.


----------



## Change is Good

expatinjapan said:


> PS4 audio help.
> 
> Audio output Troubles with headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
 1) Nothing you can do about that. You will have to mute your TV when using your headphone setup...
  
 2) Set audio to chat only... and use a y-cable out of your DS4 controller for the mic to work seperately...


----------



## ExpatinJapan

change is good said:


> ...
> 
> 2) Set audio to chat only... and use a y-cable out of your DS4 controller for the mic to work seperately...


 
 How so, please explain more.
  
 thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

Not much to explain, my friend. Go to sound settings, set audio output to headphones as "chat only." When done, all audio (sound and voice chat) will go through the optical out and into your processor/TV.

For chat output, you need a y-cable to plug the mic into the controller. Otherwise, it won't work...

By y-cable, I mean like the one shown on the front page. It separates audio and chat, allowing you to output your voice through the DS4 controller.. while allowing audio to go through your digital out from the PS4 console. 

Goodnight


----------



## benbenkr

...And, make sure to set audio output to Bitstream (Dolby). This is one option that so many people miss on the PS4 then suddenly think that their DSS/Mixamp is faulty.


----------



## ChrisRPM12

Basically it's a headset that also comes with its own mix amp. Golden ears recently measured these and they seem pretty good for a headset. They're also relatively inexpensive. Basically I want to have your say on these headsets anytime possible since so many gamers are recommending these.

^^^^^^^^^^^Plantronics RIG^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## ChrisRPM12

Goes with my previous comment...



mad lust envy said:


> I don't even know what that is.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> There are many, here on head-fi, that have wives and kids. Axel even just bought a house, I think... and look at him...
> 
> You just wait... it's very contagious...
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, *don't* look at me. I'm a terrible example. Yep, we just bought a house and we're moving and I'm still buying new headphones. Working extra hours to cover the headphones so I don't dip into the house money. 
  


chrisrpm12 said:


> Basically it's a headset that also comes with its own mix amp. Golden ears recently measured these and they seem pretty good for a headset. They're also relatively inexpensive. Basically I want to have your say on these headsets anytime possible since so many gamers are recommending these.


  

 I don't believe anyone around here has heard the new AKG headset yet. It's replacing their old headset and even that one didn't get much mention on Head-Fi, only a little that I remember seeing. I looked at a pair a little bit ago but decided that the headphone's padding looked like it left a bit to be desired and the mixing device isn't a Mixamp, but rather a device to "mix" your cell phone or mp3 player into the game audio, allowing quick switching between phone calls and gaming or mixing music into your game.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> ...And, make sure to set audio output to Bitstream (Dolby). This is one option that so many people miss on the PS4 then suddenly think that their DSS/Mixamp is faulty.




In this case, he has the Victor SU-DAC, pretty much the only surround processor (discontinued now) that could process Dolby or DTS, so for him that setting shouldn't matter.


----------



## CptHeadCrab

Hmm...really "on the fence" regarding my new possibly buy. would like to hear your opinions-
 Again as said- wide head and wearing eye-glasses. Hearing metal, classic rock and sometimes jazz.
 Playing a-lot and comfort is a must have...counting all that, i can't decide which one should get the
 cash: the DT990 premium or Fidelio x1?

 Maybe got other suggestions?
 Would like to hear..
 Wonderful week all..


----------



## conquerator2

I give the nod to the X1. Simply because it's a great headphone. 
K612 and MA900 are two other phones worth looking into.


----------



## ExpatinJapan

expatinjapan said:


> PS4 audio help.
> 
> Audio output Troubles with headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 reading through this thread at the moment for a possible solution.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/690663/ps4-with-3-5mm-x2-type-headset
  
 Yes,  have selected optical as preferred, bitstream etc etc.


----------



## petaylor

Is there any difference between the Turtle Beach COD Tango, COD Phantom, and XP510?  I'd like to keep the cost under $200 for an XBOX 360 wireless headset.  The Steelseries H Wireless reviews are pretty good, but it's pricey.


----------



## ChrisRPM12

axelcloris said:


> I don't believe anyone around here has heard the new AKG headset yet. It's replacing their old headset and even that one didn't get much mention on Head-Fi, only a little that I remember seeing. I looked at a pair a little bit ago but decided that the headphone's padding looked like it left a bit to be desired and the mixing device isn't a Mixamp, but rather a device to "mix" your cell phone or mp3 player into the game audio, allowing quick switching between phone calls and gaming or mixing music into your game.


 
 Oh can you please link me to the new AKG product? I hope that this headset is compatible with PS3 as I am a console gamer, more importantly that the headphone has a rather neutral sound quality.


----------



## ChrisRPM12

petaylor said:


> Is there any difference between the Turtle Beach COD Tango, COD Phantom, and XP510?  I'd like to keep the cost under $200 for an XBOX 360 wireless headset.


 
 The COD Tango, XP510 and the Phantom are completely identical with each other in almost every regard with the exception of the pricing, livery and the name. But I've heard that most Turtle Beach headsets are prone to breaking, especially the driver of the left ear cup not producing sound or the thin plastic joints that allows swiveling breaks when not treated properly (FYI).


----------



## leperkhaun

Hey all,
  
 brand new here.  Im currently looking for a headset to use for pc gaming, movies/tv, and then music.  I know basically nothing about quality headphones and Iv decided that its time for me to get one that will last and one that will amaze me.
  
 I saw that the Philips fidelio X1 is highly recommended, however it is an open headset.  I saw that there is a closed version called the M1.
  
 The reason I want closed headphones is that I dont want to disturb my family and I also would want to use them while traveling. 
  
 How does the M1 compare to the X1.  I had read that people say its the exact same, but when I looked up the prices the M1 is a 100 bucks cheaper.
  
 The next question is how does the M1 stack against the sennheiser momentum.  From what i have read the sennheiser seems to be considered a very well regarded closed headphone.  How is the comfort of the sennheiser compared to the X1?  Iv also heard good things about the AKG K550.  How does that stack up?  One main concern is comfort since i do wear headphones up to several hours at a time.
  
 Or should i just get the X1 and accept that its an open headset?  Also how far away can you hear them?  For example if im sitting on a couch and my wife is on the other end of the couch will she be able to hear it or is it something that she wont hear unless she sits directly next to me?
  
 If anyone else has any recommendations my budget is around 300ish. 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AxelCloris

chrisrpm12 said:


> Oh can you please link me to the new AKG product? I hope that this headset is compatible with PS3 as I am a console gamer, more importantly that the headphone has a rather neutral sound quality.


 
  
 Oops, it seems my memory failed me this time. I thought that the headset shown above was a new AKG replacing their old GHS-1 but I'm confusing AKG with Plantronics. Sorry. The image is the newer Plantronics RIG system. It's still only stereo, it doesn't handle any form of DSP. I had wanted to hear the old GHS-1 but not at the prices Amazon is currently charging. You could pick them up much cheaper before they were discontinued.


----------



## Boubos

Hello to all,

From a newbie on console gaming sound configuration.

I would like to get advise; I play stricktly XB1 console games, especially FPS, looking for a good setup for positioning in game.

Following the advises on this thread, I have ordered a set of Q701.

But what is the best way now, to connect it to get the best surround sound for great positioning?

Do I need to buy an outside amp; like the Astro Mix-Amp? And is this the best tool available for the money?

In case it can help; I have an outside Cambridge DAC and an old Yamaha DSP A970; can this be used, instead of an Astro mixamp? I know it decodes Dolby Pro Logic from an anolog source thru the speakers setup, but not sure it generate Dolby from the headphone jack?

I also own an older Stax headphone set, but the amp unit is only analog, so I suspect it is only stereo.

Sorry for all those questions, but sometime it seems so confusing, about how and what could be the best setup for console gaming sound.

Finding the best headphone, is great thru reviews, but finding how to make them work at its best, is difficult to understand.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Stillhart

boubos said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> From a newbie on console gaming sound configuration.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you'll find that most people in this thread will happily recommend the Mixamp.  As I'm sure you noticed, there are a few alternatives mentioned in the guide, including the Creative Recon3D.  I happened to find one of these on super sale for $5 so I've been using that.  I actually prefer the THX sound to DH, but I seem to be in the minority with that.  It's all about what works best for your brain/ears.
  
 You may find that you want additional amping with the Q701 and the Mixamp/Recon.  There are some good options in the guide, though I haven't personally used any of them yet.  I've amped mine through my AVR and noticed the benefits.
  
 I'm still deciding whether or not to get a dedicated headphone amp for my setup.  I can use my AVR to amp out of the Recon, but I'll need to get an optical switcher.  Ones that aren't complete garbage cost like $40 and even those aren't great.  Small jump from there to a $100 dedicated amp...


----------



## JayL

Can someone link me to a good optical switch?
  
 want to connect my 5.8 to my PS4 and Xbox One


----------



## Stillhart

jayl said:


> Can someone link me to a good optical switch?
> 
> want to connect my 5.8 to my PS4 and Xbox One


 
 This is the latest one I was considering:  www.amazon.com/ViewHD-TOSLINK-Digital-Optical-Switcher/dp/B00G188Z7A  This is an active switch, I believe, so you need to make sure it supports the right audio formats (it claims all are supported...).  I like the fact that this one has an IR port so you can program the switching right into your Harmony Remote!
  
 For my use, I actually want a splitter.  A passive switch works both ways, but an active switch is one way so I'd need a splitter not a switch (I want the Xbox output to split to AVR and Recon).  For you, it sounds like a switch is the way to go.
  
 EDIT - BTW, I haven't used these yet.  I can't vouch for the quality.  Still deciding whether to get one or just get a headphone amp.


----------



## MichaelJames99

A little off topic, but what do you guys use for watching movies?  I current use:
  
 I have a pair of Grado RS1 (Open style), which are really good on music. I am in the market for something to allow me to hear surround sound thru them. Primarily using a DirectTV Genie box that has optical coax out, HDMI and RCA stereo. I also have a Musical Fidelity X-Can v2 headphone amp I can use. So what are you using to accomplish this? Surround sound....  Astro Mixamp 2013?  Astro Mixamp 2011, 5.8? Recon 3D?
  
 I may also be getting a PS4 here shortly to watch BluRay thru


----------



## Knightwolf15

So basically what I've taken from this thread is most actual "gaming" headsets are terrible for gaming? haha


----------



## Evshrug

knightwolf15 said:


> So basically what I've taken from this thread is most actual "gaming" headsets are terrible for gaming? haha



Kinda... By comparison, we'd always recommend another option.

Some gaming headsets are decent, but you can always get better sound from a good regular headphone at a lower price. Add $3 lapel mic from Amazon and you'll have a flexible high quality system.

I'm picking up a PS4 tonight, any requests for streaming material?


----------



## Stillhart

knightwolf15 said:


> So basically what I've taken from this thread is most actual "gaming" headsets are terrible for gaming? haha


 
 One of the reasons I found my way to this thread is because I was highly suspicious of paying $300 for the Astro A50 just because a bunch of gamers said it was the "best gaming headset on the market".  I'm very suspicious of hearsay when it comes to spending that much money.  It turns out my suspicions were well-founded.
  
 That said, I've tried the PLYR1 and they're not bad.  Not in the same ballpark as my Q701, but decent for an all-in-one wireless solution.


----------



## AxelCloris

knightwolf15 said:


> So basically what I've taken from this thread is most actual "gaming" headsets are terrible for gaming? haha


 
  
 In addition to what Evshrug and Stillhart have said, if you really want a headset you can easily make one. MLE has a list of headsets with detachable cables on the main page that work with the V-Moda BoomPro and Beyerdynamic COP microphones. Buy one of those mic cables and the headphones, use them together, and you have an instant headset. No messy additional cables. The most common pairing I've seen in this thread is the Philips X1 with the BoomPro. I'll be using the BoomPro with the Philips L2 later on this week to see how the combination is.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> In addition to what Evshrug and Stillhart have said, if you really want a headset you can easily make one. MLE has a list of headsets with detachable cables on the main page that work with the V-Moda BoomPro and Beyerdynamic COP microphones. Buy one of those mic cables and the headphones, use them together, and you have an instant headset. No messy additional cables. The most common pairing I've seen in this thread is the Philips X1 with the BoomPro. I'll be using the BoomPro with the Philips L2 later on this week to see how the combination is.


 
  
 Oh speaking of which, you lose the advantage of those if you want to use surround (Mixamp, etc) on the Xbone. You need to split the output anyways to have the headphone going to the Mixamp and the mic into the controller, so it's not as big of a deal to have the Boompro.
  
 I'm discovering that manging the cables is easier with one long cable to my Recon and one short one from the mic to the controller (rather than one medium one with a splitter and then two more).


----------



## Knightwolf15

evshrug said:


> Kinda... By comparison, we'd always recommend another option.
> 
> Some gaming headsets are decent, but you can always get better sound from a good regular headphone at a lower price. Add $3 lapel mic from Amazon and you'll have a flexible high quality system.
> 
> I'm picking up a PS4 tonight, any requests for streaming material?


 
 So pro gamers use and push gaming headsets cause of endorsements I'm guessing?


----------



## conquerator2

knightwolf15 said:


> So pro gamers use and push gaming headsets cause of endorsements I'm guessing?




Well obviously. Or sponsorships. Or both.
Either way, it's a shame. It's just like the celebs wearing Beats.


----------



## Stillhart

knightwolf15 said:


> So pro gamers use and push gaming headsets cause of endorsements I'm guessing?


 
 Well, of course.  You think LaDanian Tomlinson actually uses Visio TV's?  They're garbage.  Tiger and Peyton drive Buicks? Yeah RIGHT!  Always take professional endorsements with a large helping of salt (not just a grain).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, Vizio tvs are garbage? Where do you come up with that conclusion? Just because you've seen their lower end models at Walmarts? Vizio makes excellent TVs as well. You can get mid-high tier performance for a mid-tier price, whereas other companies offer mid-tier performance for a higher price.

I have a high end Panasonic plasma (VT60), and that still doesn't keep me from seeing how good Vizio sets can be, especially their higher end offerings.

All brand name manufacturers all have crappy TVs too. You get hit and miss with all companies. 

As for gaming headsets, why are they used? Simplicity? You get everything you will ever need with some headsets. It keeps setups from getting messy. It's convenience. Sure, they'll never be as good as a headphone and separate amps, mics, etc, but that adds clutter, more hassle, etc. Some people don't want to deal with all that. They just one the simplest solutions, and headsets tend to be just that.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Umm, Vizio tvs are garbage? Where do you come up with that conclusion? Just because you've seen their lower end models at Walmarts? Vizio makes excellent TVs as well. You can get mid-high tier performance for a mid-tier price, whereas other companies offer mid-tier performance for a higher price.
> 
> I have a high end Panasonic plasma (VT60), and that still doesn't keep me from seeing how good Vizio sets can be, especially their higher end offerings.
> 
> All brand name manufacturers all have crappy TVs too. You get hit and miss with all companies.


 
  
 This isn't the place to argue TV's.  If you don't think Vizio's are garbage, then I'm glad you can enjoy them and save a few bucks; more power to ya.  It doesn't change my point that LT probably doesn't personally use the cheapest (literally and figuratively) TV's on the market.
  
 I definitely agree with you about your latter point though.  The PLYR1 is a great all-in-one solution and I've been using it on and off, even though I'm not going to keep it, just because it's so convenient and easy.  Like The Dude, I'm a lazy man.  Convenience is a great value.  But I also appreciate the finer things in life and if I have to run a few extra cords to get way better sound, then I'm okay with that.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Umm, Vizio tvs are garbage? Where do you come up with that conclusion? Just because you've seen their lower end models at Walmarts? Vizio makes excellent TVs as well. You can get mid-high tier performance for a mid-tier price, whereas other companies offer mid-tier performance for a higher price.
> 
> I have a high end Panasonic plasma (VT60), and that still doesn't keep me from seeing how good Vizio sets can be, especially their higher end offerings.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Vizio holds that reputation from their early days when every single set they put to market was complete garbage. They've evolved a lot over the past 6 years and they've really improved their game. Back when I was selling TVs I wouldn't give a Vizio the time of day. They were worse than the cheap Westinghouse and RCA models. Today, though, I'd consider getting one. Of course they carry entry level stuff now, what brand doesn't, and their medium to higher end sets actually have a lot to offer.
  
 [EDIT] I should clarify that I personally wouldn't use a Vizio as my primary television, but as a secondary tv within the house.
  


stillhart said:


> Oh speaking of which, you lose the advantage of those if you want to use surround (Mixamp, etc) on the Xbone. You need to split the output anyways to have the headphone going to the Mixamp and the mic into the controller, so it's not as big of a deal to have the Boompro.
> 
> I'm discovering that manging the cables is easier with one long cable to my Recon and one short one from the mic to the controller (rather than one medium one with a splitter and then two more).


 
  
 I use the Recon3D with a Mac/PC so for me the BoomPro is an excellent solution if it sounds good. But you're right, when people need to connect the mic to a controller the situation changes.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Anyone have an opinion on which headphone surround processor to use for movies?


----------



## conquerator2

The thing is, a lot of popular YT channels use both a gaming headset and a quality dedicated condenser/dynamic mic... How do you justify that, other than by pay checks?


----------



## Murder Mike

conquerator2 said:


> The thing is, a lot of popular YT channels use both a gaming headset and a quality dedicated condenser/dynamic mic... How do you justify that, other than by pay checks?


 
 Endorsements basically. The nicest pair of headphones I've seen on a non-professional stream is the HD595. I've seen a lot of nice mics though.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> Endorsements basically. The nicest pair of headphones I've seen on a non-professional stream is the HD595. I've seen a lot of nice mics though.


 
 Well, that's my point  They don't know what they're missing probably, though. A lowly K612 [or MA900, or X1] stumps over any 200+ headset... But we already know that 
 It's a shame though... I'll make sure to promote good gaming peripherals in my upcoming LPs [if anyone watch them xD]


----------



## Boubos

Anybody knows when the Astro 2013 Mixamp will be available in Canada or USA, and where???

Cant find them anywhere...

Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> The thing is, a lot of popular YT channels use both a gaming headset and a quality dedicated condenser/dynamic mic... How do you justify that, other than by pay checks?



Well, a great mic raises the quality of their channel. And, if people recognize a headset (more ppl recognize Razer or ask about them, who knows about AKG and Beyerdynamic?), that adds interest in their channel. The YT person is probably willing to sacrifice some quality to get those other attention/subscriber benefits. There may also be a product support chain in for professional/business users. AKG doesn't reach out to pro gamers like Razer, Turtle Beach, Astro, and Mad Catz (Tritton).

Plus, they might be too busy working/editing/youtubing to explore audio. 




boubos said:


> Anybody knows when the Astro 2013 Mixamp will be available in Canada or USA, and where???
> 
> Cant find them anywhere...
> 
> Thanks.



Try Astro Gaming's website for where to buy, also I got a good deal at the Microsoft store. There are also alternatives to the Mixamp... the 2013 went out of stock before in like October.


----------



## Boubos

[quote name="Evshrug" url="/

Plus, they might be too busy working/editing/youtubing to explore audio. 
Try Astro Gaming's website for where to buy, also I got a good deal at the Microsoft store. There are also alternatives to the Mixamp... the 2013 went out of stock before in like October.[/quote]

What are your suggestions for the alternatives; I want something as good if not better. The setup is intended for FPS on a XB1.


----------



## Stillhart

boubos said:


> What are your suggestions for the alternatives; I want something as good if not better. The setup is intended for FPS on a XB1.


 
 Have you listened to the videos in the first post of the guide?  Did you find any of the different surround effects worked better for you?  MLE and many others find DH to work better and so they prefer the Mixamp.  Personally, I find the THX to work better for me than DH, so I was happy to score a Recon3D for less than the cost of a Mixamp.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

knightwolf15 said:


> So pro gamers use and push gaming headsets cause of endorsements I'm guessing?


 
  
 Well, the headsets do the job fine, they look cool, and they're handy. I've seen many amazing players who aren't paid to wear **** but use $150 headsets to great effect. I've heard people use $20 IEMs and be stellar gamers.
  


leperkhaun said:


> Hey all,
> 
> brand new here.  Im currently looking for a headset to use for pc gaming, movies/tv, and then music.  I know basically nothing about quality headphones and Iv decided that its time for me to get one that will last and one that will amaze me.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been negotiating with that problem as well, except I've also had to handle having large ears and seeing my options and choices diminish dramatically as a result.
  
 In the end I've gone with the AKG K550—they'll arrive later this week. They have large earcups, effective isolation, wide sound stage, and detailed precision in the width and depth of the field. I wanted an all-round set of headphones for everything, but eventually I had to sacrifice on portability and go with the K550's. The Philips L2 were also a viable option as apparently they possessed a wide and deep sound stage yet isolated noise better than the X2 or other open-ear equivalents.
  
 If you have small or 'regular' sized ears, the world is your oyster. Basically anything will be effective, especially ones with a renowned sound stage and neutrality to the signature. The NAD VISO HP50's and PSB M4U1's are an example of this. You mentioned the Momentums... they're supposedly very good headphones for a variety of styles, but I don't know how functional they would be as a gaming headset. I can't imagine the small earcups would be comfortable for lengthy gaming sessions.
  
 You also should consider the Audio Technica ATH-A700X and A900X models.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Have you listened to the videos in the first post of the guide?  Did you find any of the different surround effects worked better for you?  MLE and many others find DH to work better and so they prefer the Mixamp.  Personally, I find the THX to work better for me than DH, so I was happy to score a Recon3D for less than the cost of a Mixamp.




It was my thread that has all the samples of different surround processing, and a list of different DSP equipment you can use.

It's linked in my signature, for anyone cutious.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> It was my thread that has all the samples of different surround processing, and a list of different DSP equipment you can use.
> 
> It's linked in my signature, for anyone cutious.


 
 Oh man, I was totally looking for something from your thread and couldn't find it anywhere.  Thanks for reminding me of it!
  
 To be fair though, the Bioshock Infinite video in this thread was the one that made it most clear for me.  At least, between DH and THX.  I am really excited for DTS Headphone X, but it's vaporware until I can hear more than one demo video.


----------



## Sam21

Hey Mad Lust Envy and everyone else ... what are your thoughts on *true* 5.1/7.1 gaming headsets such as these : 
  
 http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71/
  
  
 http://www.rosewill.com/products/1964/ProductDetail_Overview.htm
  
 I hear they are very good  in competitive gaming, but the soundquality is garbage....what are your thoughts ?


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy and everyone else ... what are your thoughts on *true* 5.1/7.1 gaming headsets such as these :
> 
> http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71/
> 
> ...


 
  
 I personally don't care for the sound most of them produce. Instead of a single nice sounding solid driver you get a handful of tiny, very limited sounding drivers and the sound suffers because of this. I would prefer a nice pair of headphones with a DSP over dedicated "true" 5.1 headsets.
  
 If you want real 5/7.1, get a speaker system.


----------



## leperkhaun

angrygoldfish said:


> I've been negotiating with that problem as well, except I've also had to handle having large ears and seeing my options and choices diminish dramatically as a result.
> 
> In the end I've gone with the AKG K550—they'll arrive later this week. They have large earcups, effective isolation, wide sound stage, and detailed precision in the width and depth of the field. I wanted an all-round set of headphones for everything, but eventually I had to sacrifice on portability and go with the K550's. The Philips L2 were also a viable option as apparently they possessed a wide and deep sound stage yet isolated noise better than the X2 or other open-ear equivalents.
> 
> ...


 
 Im pretty sure I fall into the small/regular size of ears and I know i have a smaller head than a lot of folks (wear size 7).
  
 I dont live near any place where I can go and try these on so I have to try to figure out what i might like just from reviews and such.  For me the most important feature would be to be able to hear distinction between the sounds and have crisp sounds.  I think that something that allows me to listen to classical music I think would work well for me as for gaming I would like to hear everything as clear as possible over say, having a bass heavy headphone.
  
 the issue i run into is that for every person who knows what they are talking about who likes a given headset, there is another person who is just as qualified who doesnt like it.  This is an issue because Im new to the premium headphone market and I dont have a lot of experience trying various models out and being able to interpriute a lot of the reviews other than "ok he liked it and it was clear" "ok he didnt like it because this other headphone had clearer highs".
  
 At the moment I am leaning towards the X1s, but im just not sure about the openness.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

At this point in time, I'd really be interested in a wireless dac/amp. Fiio and NuForce already have wireless DACs... but they really need to do an all wireless setup, like the Mixamp 5.8... but audiophile level. I would love a wireless E17 with the power of the E12.

Sorry, just rambling. Just getting tired of clutter. Cable management is the future of audio for me.


----------



## Slayn

So I know this was sort of covered in the guide, and has probably been asked, but.... DT990 Pro $140 on Amazon. Fidelio X1 $232. I am ready to buy. Is the Fidelio worth the extra $$$? If it helps at all, it is for "fun" gaming, I listen to classic rock, and I am probably going to hook up my Titanium soundcard with CMSS-3d to my Onkyo receiver via optical and use it for a DAC/amp.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 is a safer choice. The DT990 has some thin mids, and the treble may irritate you as they're very prominent.

Just...get the X1.

If beyer ever manages to revamp the 990s with less treble, and a little bit more mids, then it may be a better buy, since the bass is more articulate, and the positional cues are sharper.

This is probably the most asked question now. I get a LOT of pms asking between the two.


----------



## Change is Good

Gotta love it when people ask if fill in the blank is worth the extra $?? over fill in the blank... lol


----------



## rc10mike

mad lust envy said:


> At this point in time, I'd really be interested in a wireless dac/amp. Fiio and NuForce already have wireless DACs... but they really need to do an all wireless setup, like the Mixamp 5.8... but audiophile level. I would love a wireless E17 with the power of the E12.
> 
> Sorry, just rambling. Just getting tired of clutter. Cable management is the future of audio for me.


 
 Functionality wise, the A50 was perfect. It had the convenience and features I wanted out of a headset but overall SQ was lacking. Boomy bass, mediocre mic. The comfort was ok at best.
  
 What I really want is a wireless version of what I use now, AKG K702 65th with Beyerdynamic mic. I basically wish I could take the SQ of the AKGs and Beyer mic and combine it with the A50. That would be the end-all, be-all for me IMO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How did you manage the Beyer mic on the Annies? pics?

Actually, I'm referring to non-gaming needs. Yeah, I'd love a wireless solution that surpasses the 5.8, but I'm just speaking in general head-fi terms, a wireless dac amp for music, etc. If a product like this ever exists, I'm betting it's not going to have chat functionality and virtual surround, unless it's made by companies like Astro, which aren't going for audio fidelity first.


----------



## Change is Good

In other news... I went back to the KEF M500 as my portable. I was able to negotiate a good deal for a pair in the classifieds... and couldn't pass it up. Man, I hate this hobby... but love it at the same time! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
 These have a very nice soundstage for being an on-ear... first thing I noticed and remembered. Really glad these are back in my hands, because I was sad to sell them the first time.
  
 Will try some BF4 with them at the end of the week... and report back with results...


----------



## Slayn

change is good said:


> Gotta love it when people ask if fill in the blank is worth the extra $?? over fill in the blank... lol


 

 Thank you for your brilliant contribution.
  


mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is a safer choice. The DT990 has some thin mids, and the treble may irritate you as they're very prominent.
> 
> Just...get the X1.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's what I was concerned with, most reviews on the DT990 complain about the treble, but I see your scores on the DT990 are pretty close to what you rate the Fidelio. On paper for ~$100 it would look like the DT990 has a better price/performance ratio, but if I can't stand them for long sessions, there is no point. They have been described as "ear piercing". I wish I could find the Fidelios locally, usually I would  just go to Sam Ash or Guitar Center and pick it up. I don't see it in stock at any brick and mortar store.

 I will order the Fidelio online. Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, was it an addition, or replacement?

I went back to BB and tested the Momentum On Ear again. I actually think it'd be a nice headphone to have, and I think it's v shaped sound would actually work for gaming. What keeps me from getting them is that I test the regular Momentum next to it... and it's clear that I prefer the originals in sound. Just wish they had alcantara pads too. Sennheiser really should have aimed the On Ear to have the same frequency response as the Momentum, even if it wasn't as refined. The regular Momentum just sounds amazing. I hope they make a full over ear Momentum soon, not this sorta over ear.


----------



## Change is Good

slayn said:


> Thank you for your brilliant contribution.


 
  
 Glad I could help!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


mad lust envy said:


> *Change, was it an addition, or replacement?*
> 
> I went back to BB and tested the Momentum On Ear again. I actually think it'd be a nice headphone to have, and I think it's v shaped sound would actually work for gaming. What keeps me from getting them is that I test the regular Momentum next to it... and it's clear that I prefer the originals in sound. Just wish they had alcantara pads too. Sennheiser really should have aimed the On Ear to have the same frequency response as the Momentum, even if it wasn't as refined.


 
  
 It was an addition to the collection, just my second time around with them (sold my first pair a while back). I inquired about them, and negotiated a deal I could not pass up in the classifieds. I just used the money I still had from my K545 refund...
  
 I was very impressed with the M500 the first time, but my time with them was so short lived (needed funds) that I completely forgot they existed... and how awesome sounded. I've been in search for the perfect portable (for my taste) for so long, that I was glad I remembered about these. It really is relieveing because I was tempted to try the K545 one last time (hoping for a working pair). No need for that, now...
  
 As for the Momentums, have you thought about getting the originals and just replacing their pads with Shure's alcantaras (if they fit)? I see them being sold on Amazon, now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because I know that would change the sound, and I've never heard any headphone improve with swapped pads, except the Mad Dog and HE400. I like things to remain stock, unless stock is horrible.

The same way I wouldn't want any miniature changes in the Momentum sound.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Because I know that would change the sound, and I've never heard any headphone improve with swapped pads, except the Mad Dog. I like things to remain stock, unless stock is horrible.


 
  
 True... but add the Q701 with Annie pads to that... and possibly the K612 with K702 pads (at least for me).
  
 I say the swapped pads on the Mad Dog, however, is more credited to the pads themselves. Those Alpha pads do wonders for the 1540s...
  
 Speaking of the MDs, has Dan contacted you about the MD Pros yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, not yet. I kinda want a nice lengthy break from reviewing though.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, not yet. I kinda want a nice lengthy break from reviewing though.


 
  
 Lol
  
 Gawd I hope my K612 comes back, tomorrow...


----------



## Change is Good

Since these M500s have an in-line mic that also works with the mixamp... it makes me want the 5.8 even more...
  
 My wired mixamp is just too far... and in-line mic cables too short on my H3 and M500. I really hate just using the DS4...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's too bad the good deals are over on the Microsoft store website. Getting the Mixamp 5.8/A30 for $90 was... a steal. The A30s are fairly throwaway (though I'll be giving them to my brother). I better get the review done before he comes back from the military next month.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> It's too bad the good deals are over on the Microsoft store website. Getting the Mixamp 5.8/A30 for $90 was... a steal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Though apparently I must've bought an older stock 5.8, since apparently some people were getting ps3 chat cables with theirs.


----------



## SgtFrag

Hi im looking at the X1's or 701/702's. Im a pc FPS Gamer with dedicated sound card. My dilema is I need to use a microphone as i play all online multiplayer fps bf4 dayz (clan etc). Should I just go for a headset incorporating microphone? Im more interestef in the competative rating at this stage. Help! Any ideas? 
Thanks in advance and sorry if this has already been covered a million times. (Amazing reviews by the way)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get an AD700x if all you want is an FPS headphone. PC360 if you need a headset. No need to spend so much for an AKG K70x for those purposes.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I kinda liked the M500 from the few hours I listened to it. Lightweight, comfortable, polite, fun non-offensive sound with a little thumping bass but not really good isolation so not ideal for trains.
  
 Would like to try the NAD HP50 again but those hideous looks on my larger head doesn't combine well together.


----------



## RoosterMKV

Was looking to add another pair to the current set Fidelio X1 and ATH-M50 - Bouncing between the K702 Annies, MDR-MA900 and Alpha Dogs.  Anyone able to provide any other insight to how these would work with a PC setup using a Magni/Modi stack?


----------



## Fegefeuer

What do you need the other (3rd) pair for? I'd rather save up and upgrade in a year (or earlier, depending on your budget) in to high end territories. 
  
 HD 800, K812, TH-900, HE-560.


----------



## martin vegas

sgtfrag said:


> Hi im looking at the X1's or 701/702's. Im a pc FPS Gamer with dedicated sound card. My dilema is I need to use a microphone as i play all online multiplayer fps bf4 dayz (clan etc). Should I just go for a headset incorporating microphone? Im more interestef in the competative rating at this stage. Help! Any ideas?
> Thanks in advance and sorry if this has already been covered a million times. (Amazing reviews by the way)


 
 For gaming, in one word: outstanding. Sound stage, tonal balance and detail are three major key factors if you game competitively. For example, if you headphone has a wide sound stage, but average tonal balance, and very aggressive detail, you may not get those baddies behind you. Thankfully, the ADG1 has the correct amount of all three, which is a wide, discrete sound stage, superb tonal balance, and detail that is slightly aggresive. With these tangibles, tracking footsteps in Black Ops 2 is simple, as I was easily able to detect them even when heavy intense sections, like firefights, where in motion. Other games like Tales of Xillia definitely got a boost, as the soundtrack and sound effects came to life, so much so that I almost thought I was it the game, which again, something only the PC 360 and MMX 300 achieved. Now all that sounds awesome, but what if I told you that I was only using stereo? With Dolby Digital 5.1 engaged, tonal balance, detail, and sound stage were boosted so much if it was as I was cheating. Every single minute amount of transformation cues in Transformers: Fall of Cybertron was just awe inspiring. GTA V's sound was just jaw dropping to experience, as I could pick out many different forms of conversing that was happening on screen. Midnight Club: Los Angeles' sound of the engines never felt more pleasing with the ADG1, as I could almost feel the roar of the engine and hear the screeches of the tire tracks, all the while being well defined. In terms of what you should use between the Mixer, Astro Mixamp, and Turtle Beach ACU, that depends on your gaming preference. Competitive users go with the ACU, Casual's go with the Mixer, overall best usage go with the Astro Mixamp. Again, this will depend on preference. Movie sessions were no sweat. Firing up Aliens vs. Predator, the creepy sensation of the Xenomorphs were so good I almost felt like I was being followed by one. Avatar's heavy usage of dialouge, musical score, and explosions weren't good enough to slow the ADG1's down, as those heavy intensive sections were a breeze. For the microphone, for a gaming headset one of, my new favorite's overall. Easily one of the clearest microphone's I have ever tested during my two weeks. No forms of static, distortion, or hiss were present. In addition, it did a great job blocking out ambient noise, even though I found it a bit sensitive Now, for comparison's. The PC G4ME Zero can best the ADG1 in bass, but in everything else? Nope. The G4ME did let me hear footsteps just as good as the ADG1, but in music, the G4ME felt slightly tonally daker to my ears, and for movies, specfic sections were slightly hampered due to the Zero's slighlty narrower sound stage. For the MMX 300, I would have to say same outcome. There really is no comparison at all between the ADG1 and MMX 300. For microphone? I still have to crown the MMX 300 king, although the ADG1put up one heck of a fight. I had to test extensivley: going back and forth to try to find differences, and the only major difference is the amont of ambient noise each blocked out. With that, the MMX 300 did it slightly better. For the G4ME Zero comparison, this fight goes to the ADG1, as my voice sounded slightly more natural and fuller, and I know I keep using slightly constantly, but it was that close in terms of which one is superior. While there are very small quibbles, the ADG1 is my new favorite gaming headset to use. I have always used the MMX 300 up to this point, but now, it is time for a new champion, and for me, that champion is the ADG1. With that out of the way, time for the score, and after that, the final verdict. Design/Appearance: 3.5/5 Build Quality: 4/5 Comfort: 5/5 Features: 3/5 Performance: 5/5 Total: 20.5/25 Final Verdict: Audio Technica has been hitting stride for a while now. From their ATH M50's, to their ATH-AD700's, its hard to imagine how anyone can argue with their success. Now, the Japanese giant plunged into gaming audio, and the result is this: If you truly care about every single aspect of sound for a gaming headset, mind some small design issues, and price isn't an issue at all, then the ADG1 is for you. If not, you may want to wait for a North American release date, as there are too many issues that factor in with the price. However, it's sound is not an issue, and to my ears, the ADG1 is easily a gamers dream.


----------



## RoosterMKV

fegefeuer said:


> What do you need the other (3rd) pair for? I'd rather save up and upgrade in a year (or earlier, depending on your budget) in to high end territories.
> 
> HD 800, K812, TH-900, HE-560.


 

 Well I just recently started getting into this whole audio appreciation thing.  The M50's and X1's were my first foray into things and later came the Magni/Modi.  Like I said - these are mostly for PC use and I'm just craving something new.  Not sure I'm quite ready to truly appreciate something on the higher end of things.  I appreciate the suggestions though and I'll definitely look into those options you listed!


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/03/18/superhuman-sound-infamous-second-son/
  
 Sony 1st party almost always delivers in terms of Audio, especially recordings. 
  
  
 http://www.bradleymeyer.com/ is the engineer.


----------



## Boubos

Hello MLE

I have a set of Stax 202 with the 212 amp; I have just ordered an Astro Mixamp, not received yet to hook to my xb1 for the Dolby signal.

Do you think the Q701 would perform much better for FPS games like COD.

I am looking for a set for gaming, since for music the 202 are giving me enough pleasure, and I also have a set Martin Logan Sequel speakers.

Thanks for the advise


----------



## roguegeek

I need that ATH-ADG1. I probably would still be using my AD700 for competitive gaming had I not destroyed them trying to get them to fit. My only concerns are going to be the same I have with my AD700 which are the wing design and no horizontal pivot point for the cups. I wonder if it's based on the AD700X or AD900X.


----------



## Stillhart

roguegeek said:


> I need that ATH-ADG1. I probably would still be using my AD700 for competitive gaming had I not destroyed them trying to get them to fit. My only concerns are going to be the same I have with my AD700 which are the wing design and no horizontal pivot point for the cups. I wonder if it's based on the AD700X or AD900X.


 
  
 They have two models, an open and a closed. I'm curious about these as well, but they're not really available yet so I guess we'll see.
  
 I'm curious about the pricing.  People kept saying the AD700 is <$100, but I've never seen one at that price.  If these headsets are in that price range, I suspec they'll do well.


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> They have two models, an open and a closed. I'm curious about these as well, but they're not really available yet so I guess we'll see.
> 
> I'm curious about the pricing.  People kept saying the AD700 is <$100, but I've never seen one at that price.  If these headsets are in that price range, I suspec they'll do well.


 
 They used to retail for that before they were discontinued. The new models are around $150 IIRC. These will probably pop up for $250 or more. I'd honestly be surprised if they were lower.


----------



## NamelessPFG

sam21 said:


> Hey Mad Lust Envy and everyone else ... what are your thoughts on *true* 5.1/7.1 gaming headsets such as these :
> 
> http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71/
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you'd looked at his Tritton AX Pro review on the first page, you'd find that Mad Lust Envy found it awful to the point of making it his first AND LAST multi-driver surround headset review.
  
There might be one set that doesn't totally suck, but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere. On top of that, if that caption about costing "under $2400" is to be believed, I'd rather treat myself to a good pair of Stax and a virtual surround processor.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

leperkhaun said:


> Im pretty sure I fall into the small/regular size of ears and I know i have a smaller head than a lot of folks (wear size 7).
> 
> I dont live near any place where I can go and try these on so I have to try to figure out what i might like just from reviews and such.  For me the most important feature would be to be able to hear distinction between the sounds and have crisp sounds.  I think that something that allows me to listen to classical music I think would work well for me as for gaming I would like to hear everything as clear as possible over say, having a bass heavy headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HP50's are considered excellent for classical music; check out the review by Headfonia.
  
 If you have a small head, maybe look into the smaller versions of the K550's, the K551's and the even more portable and stylish K545's. The K545's were on my shortlist, but I think they might be too diminutive for my 'Elf' ears. 
  
 Honestly, if you're new to headsets and headphones like I am, don't be afraid to experiment. Find a few cans you like the visual style of, are on sale, have the features you require (such as closed-back, detachable cable, carrying pouch, etc.), and have generally favourable reviews, and maybe consider buying a few different ones and sending back the ones you don't get along with as well. Of course, if you like them all, you may end up not knowing which ones to part with. ^_-

 And don't solely go by the guide here. It's just one man's opinion, and he hasn't reviewed all the headphones out there. I had to look elsewhere because none of the ones listed fitted my criteria.
  
 If you're confused by the jargon that people use in reviews, so am I! That's why it might be better to focus on features and price more so than sound signature. Because let's face it, basing  your opinion on another person's interpretation is rather silly by definition. There are so many factors that need to be considered, such as source music, amplification, how tight the seal is, etc. Then of course you have the myriad of different ways the human ear is formed based on your DNA.
  
 I've not tried the X1's so I can't say how well you will get along with the lack of isolation. It's been on my mind as well. I live in Ireland, though, so returning items bought from Amazon or elsewhere is expensive and not easy. Otherwise I'd buy them and see for myself whether I can live with the noise or not.


----------



## petaylor

Thanks, Chris.  I thought so, but the prices were so different it threw me.  Anyway, based on the discussions I've read, I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a Turtle Beach headset.  Besides, the deal on the Tango has passed.  So, I'm back to this.  I really want a wireless surround sound headset, for my XBOX 360 (and XBOX ONE, since that may come later).  I don't want to hassle with wires between me and the XBOX.  I'm OK with a wire, from my headset to the controller and/or wires from the transceiver to the XBOX.  I sit across the room from the TV.  Anyone who passes by, has to walk behind me or step over the wires.  The players that I see are:
  
 Skullcandy PLYR1
 Turtle Beach XP510 (and COD special editions)
 Steelseries H Wireless
 Astro Gaming A50
 Creative Sound Blaster Tactic3D or Recon3D
 Madcatz Tritton Warhead 7.1 Dolby
  
 Because of cost, I'm leaning towards the Skullcandy PLYR1.  The Astro Gaming A50 reviews are quite good.  And, the Stellseries H wireless is intriguing, but the review have been mixed.  If there is a big difference between the Skullcandy and the others, I'd go with a more expensive choice.  If there are other I should consider, I'm interested.


----------



## conquerator2

K612>MA900>X1. IMO. YMMV.
I think they are very good headphones though to my ears the cheaper K612 or MA900 are cheaper and a bit more special.
I feel like the X1 is really good with bass but the midrange leaves a bit to be desired and the highs are too smooth and lack air with just a little spike. The soundstage and instrument separation is still very good though and so is imaging. The MA900 shines in the mids with very good punchy but still tight bass.the highs are even smoother hut the (bass-)mids-highs transition is better.
Soundstage is great and so is instrument separation. Imaging leaves a bit to be desired. There is great air in the mids.
The K612 is a real reference headphone for 200. The bass is tight and extended all the way. The mids are very even and natural. The treble is bright and can ne edgy sometimes but it depends on the mastering a great deal. Imaging is easily the best of the three, separation is top notch and soundstage is very well rounded if slightly smaller than the two but still the most even in terms of width and depth. Sheer air quantity is akin to the X1, MA900 wins here.

If I had to rank them price/performance wise I'd go K612>MA900>X1. Because while they are all great headphones the two kicks well above their respective price ranges, while the X1 is "only" a good value at their MSRP (not counting some of the recent temporary discounts)

Then again I value natural, neutral reference headphones where all their performance sides are equally important to me.
I still can appreciate the X1 quite a bit, but they'll be the first of the three to go probably X/


----------



## SouDesu

And finally I got my MA900 (been like 7 months or even more since I sat my mind on getting them), everything that can go wrong with an online order I went through it, heck they even got discontinued while I was waiting and going through tons of bureaucratic procedures.
 But in the end, putting them on makes one forget all what he went through.
 God, they are ravishingly comfortable and sound airy and relaxing yet luscious and involving, putting them on while laying on the couch is simply heaven.


----------



## RoosterMKV

conquerator2 said:


> K612>MA900>X1. IMO. YMMV.
> I think they are very good headphones though to my ears the cheaper K612 or MA900 are cheaper and a bit more special.
> I feel like the X1 is really good with bass but the midrange leaves a bit to be desired and the highs are too smooth and lack air with just a little spike. The soundstage and instrument separation is still very good though and so is imaging. The MA900 shines in the mids with very good punchy but still tight bass.the highs are even smoother hut the (bass-)mids-highs transition is better.
> Soundstage is great and so is instrument separation. Imaging leaves a bit to be desired. There is great air in the mids.
> ...


 

 So you would recommend the K612 and then slightly behind that the MA900 above the K702 Annies and MrSpeakers Alpha dogs?  Hmmm I hadn't considered the K612 but if they're as good as you say I may need to lean towards those instead!  The reason a big part of me was looking forward to ordering the MA900 is that they're now discontinued and both MLE and Nameless provide high praise for them.  Ohhh dear me... decisions decisions!!!


----------



## conquerator2

roostermkv said:


> So you would recommend the K612 and then slightly behind that the MA900 above the K702 Annies and MrSpeakers Alpha dogs?  Hmmm I hadn't considered the K612 but if they're as good as you say I may need to lean towards those instead!  The reason a big part of me was looking forward to ordering the MA900 is that they're now discontinued and both MLE and Nameless provide high praise for them.  Ohhh dear me... decisions decisions!!!


 
 It really just depends on what you want your headphones to do? Do you want a headphone that is neutral and dynamic? Get the K612. Or is a blend between natural, fun and musical headphone more up your alley? Then the MA900. Or do you want a bassy yet still somewhat neutral can? The the X1.
 All are good... It's ultimately your music taste and what you value the most that will help you decide :]


----------



## RoosterMKV

conquerator2 said:


> It really just depends on what you want your headphones to do? Do you want a headphone that is neutral and dynamic? Get the K612. Or is a blend between natural, fun and musical headphone more up your alley? Then the MA900. Or do you want a bassy yet still somewhat neutral can? The the X1.
> All are good... It's ultimately your music taste and what you value the most that will help you decide :]


 
 Well luckily I already have the X1 and the ATH-M50's so it'd be a toss up at that point between the MA900 and the K612.  I was looking for something a bit more neutral but good for competitive gaming with a nice open sound stage and positional queues.  Ideally also comfortable for long periods of time.


----------



## Stillhart

I wish the MA900 were still available.  For the amount of good press they get around here, I'm surprised they've disappeared.  I refuse to pay a $100 markup to try them out, even though I suspect I'll really like them.
  
 Does anyone know if they'll be making a replacement or what?  Is it normal for good headphones to just vanish with no upgrades?


----------



## conquerator2

roostermkv said:


> Well luckily I already have the X1 and the ATH-M50's so it'd be a toss up at that point between the MA900 and the K612.  I was looking for something a bit more neutral but good for competitive gaming with a nice open sound stage and positional queues.  Ideally also comfortable for long periods of time.


 
 Both fit that description. The K612 is definitely the more neutral "reference" of the two, the MA900 is more relaxing and have good bass-mids, but the highs leave some to be desired.
 If you have an amp I'd give the nod to the K612 but I love the MA900 too, so... Not easy to choose between these.


----------



## RoosterMKV

conquerator2 said:


> Both fit that description. The K612 is definitely the more neutral "reference" of the two, the MA900 is more relaxing and have good bass-mids, but the highs leave some to be desired.
> If you have an amp I'd give the nod to the K612 but I love the MA900 too, so... Not easy to choose between these.


 
 So you're saying buy them both!?


----------



## conquerator2

roostermkv said:


> So you're saying buy them both!?


 
 Well, in the best possible scenario. yes 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I probably like the X1 the least for some reason, so... 
 If I knew a bit more about your musical taste/value and what's important for you, I might be able to help you choose between the two


----------



## PurpleAngel

roostermkv said:


> So you're saying buy them both!?


 
 One factor that might make a difference is what your using to drive them, the 48-Ohm MA900 should easy work with portable audio devices (DAP & smartphones) or computer audio.
 Where as the AKG K612 Pro is 120-Ohm and might like a little more juice, so computer audio to modern A/V receivers would would be good sources for the K612.
 If you already have a decent headphone amplifier, then either headphone would work.


----------



## Stillhart

If the K612 is as good as the Q701 for positional cues and soundstage, I doubt you'll be disappointed.


----------



## RoosterMKV

purpleangel said:


> One factor that might make a difference is what your using to drive them, the 48-Ohm MA900 should easy work with portable audio devices (DAP & smartphones) or computer audio.
> Where as the AKG K612 Pro is 120-Ohm and might like a little more juice, so computer audio to modern A/V receivers would would be good sources for the K612.
> If you already have a decent headphone amplifier, then either headphone would work.


 
 Well I started with the ATH-M50's and then took those to use for the office and travel since they were closed back and a bit more isolated.  That led me to getting the X1's for home use - about 90% PC and 10% portable with iphone/SGS4.  But I'm looking to keep the X1's for the more relaxed at home music listening sessions and wanted to replace them with something that will be used solely for PC.

 The biggest interest is in a neutral sound with a good soundstage and positional queues - I currently have a Magni/Modi stack and a Xi-Fi titanium (which I'm not using because for some reason my  motherboard refuses to detect it).  I figure the Magni should be good enough to drive the K612 and Ma900? 

 Now it's just a matter of which of the two I really would be happier with.  I know I'll probably be thrilled with the new addition whatever it may be, but as far as PC it's mostly for gaming (FPS/RTS/Moba/MMO) and background music (spotify) during non-competitive gaming sessions. 

 Now the kicker is ... which of these two is gonna be in my cart when I click submit on my amazon order? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


 Quick edit - as far as music goes I mostly listen to house/DNB/Rock/Classical/Alternative/80's - pretty much anything other than a lot of current pop or country... Not sure if that affects the decision though considering my emphasis is on what will give me the most satisfaction in gaming and competitive gaming scenarios lol.


----------



## Stillhart

Dude the K612 is like $70 cheaper on Amazon.  If you're agonizing over them and they're both going to make you happy, why not get the SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper one?


----------



## TiTaN

removed due to request


----------



## RoosterMKV

stillhart said:


> Dude the K612 is like $70 cheaper on Amazon.  If you're agonizing over them and they're both going to make you happy, why not get the SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper one?


 

 Wasn't really a question of the money so much as what might end up bringing me more satisfaction for the time being.  Truth be told I may end up ordering both pairs - it'd still come in at less than I would have paid for the Alpha Dogs and those are still on my radar as well lol.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

slayn said:


> Thank you for your brilliant contribution.
> 
> 
> That's what I was concerned with, most reviews on the DT990 complain about the treble, but I see your scores on the DT990 are pretty close to what you rate the Fidelio. On paper for ~$100 it would look like the DT990 has a better price/performance ratio, but if I can't stand them for long sessions, there is no point. They have been described as "ear piercing". I wish I could find the Fidelios locally, usually I would  just go to Sam Ash or Guitar Center and pick it up. I don't see it in stock at any brick and mortar store.
> ...


 
  
 The FAQ seems to have been written around the concept that each headphone is reviewed and scored on its own merits, not with that of others in mind. In other words, just because one headphone scores 7.5 all round, yet another one scores 8 all round, doesn't mean the cans that scored 8 are 0.5 better than the ones that scored 7.5. At least that's my understanding.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Change, was it an addition, or replacement?
> 
> I went back to BB and tested the Momentum On Ear again. I actually think it'd be a nice headphone to have, and I think it's v shaped sound would actually work for gaming. What keeps me from getting them is that I test the regular Momentum next to it... and it's clear that I prefer the originals in sound. Just wish they had alcantara pads too. Sennheiser really should have aimed the On Ear to have the same frequency response as the Momentum, even if it wasn't as refined. The regular Momentum just sounds amazing. I hope they make a full over ear Momentum soon, not this sorta over ear.


 
  
 But keep that sexy look. Oh yes!
  


rc10mike said:


> Functionality wise, the A50 was perfect. It had the convenience and features I wanted out of a headset but overall SQ was lacking. Boomy bass, mediocre mic. The comfort was ok at best.
> 
> What I really want is a wireless version of what I use now, AKG K702 65th with Beyerdynamic mic. I basically wish I could take the SQ of the AKGs and Beyer mic and combine it with the A50. That would be the end-all, be-all for me IMO.


 
  
 The Sennheiser PC363D seems to have an excellent microphone. It doesn't sound as good as the V-Moda or ModMic, but still the better of the headset world.
  


petaylor said:


> Thanks, Chris.  I thought so, but the prices were so different it threw me.  Anyway, based on the discussions I've read, I'm not ready to pull the trigger on a Turtle Beach headset.  Besides, the deal on the Tango has passed.  So, I'm back to this.  I really want a wireless surround sound headset, for my XBOX 360 (and XBOX ONE, since that may come later).  I don't want to hassle with wires between me and the XBOX.  I'm OK with a wire, from my headset to the controller and/or wires from the transceiver to the XBOX.  I sit across the room from the TV.  Anyone who passes by, has to walk behind me or step over the wires.  The players that I see are:
> 
> Skullcandy PLYR1
> Turtle Beach XP510 (and COD special editions)
> ...


 
  
 Also check out the PC363D.


----------



## RoosterMKV

titan said:


> wat


 

 You wonderful person.


----------



## TiTaN

roostermkv said:


> You wonderful person.


----------



## conquerator2

roostermkv said:


> Wasn't really a question of the money so much as what might end up bringing me more satisfaction for the time being.  *Truth be told I may end up ordering both pairs* - it'd still come in at less than I would have paid for the Alpha Dogs and those are still on my radar as well lol.


 
 +1


----------



## Murder Mike

titan said:


> $159 with free shipping -


 
 You should delete your link. Head-fi doesn't like people linking to group buy sites. You could get the K612 at Razor Dog Audio for a while with a code. I can't find it and I don't know if it still works. Maybe Change knows off-hand, I think he was the one that mentioned it.


----------



## Stillhart

roostermkv said:


> Wasn't really a question of the money so much as what might end up bringing me more satisfaction for the time being.  Truth be told I may end up ordering both pairs - it'd still come in at less than I would have paid for the Alpha Dogs and those are still on my radar as well lol.


 
  
 Fair enough.  But all other things equal, that's a massive difference.  When everything else is so close, it's something to help with the decision.
  
 That said, trying them both is probably the best thing to do.  Then return the MA when you discover that's it's close enough.


----------



## AxelCloris

titan said:


> $159 with free shipping - [removed]


 
  
 Agree with Mike. These links shouldn't be posted here. People have been banned and threads have been locked because of them. I don't want to see this thread locked.


----------



## TiTaN

axelcloris said:


> Agree with Mike. These links shouldn't be posted here. People have been banned and threads have been locked because of them. I don't want to see this thread locked.


 
 Done.


----------



## AxelCloris

titan said:


> Done.


 
  
 Thanks much. Now if we can get Rooster to edit the quote we'll be perfect. I have no issue with that site personally, but it's best to stick to the forum rules.


----------



## RoosterMKV

axelcloris said:


> Thanks much. Now if we can get Rooster to edit the quote we'll be perfect. I have no issue with that site personally, but it's best to stick to the forum rules.


----------



## leperkhaun

angrygoldfish said:


> The HP50's are considered excellent for classical music; check out the review by Headfonia.
> 
> If you have a small head, maybe look into the smaller versions of the K550's, the K551's and the even more portable and stylish K545's. The K545's were on my shortlist, but I think they might be too diminutive for my 'Elf' ears.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks for the help.  I ended up buying the HP50s.  Now all I have to do is wait until I get them so I can try them out.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

leperkhaun said:


> thanks for the help.  I ended up buying the HP50s.  Now all I have to do is wait until I get them so I can try them out.


 
  
 Let me know how you get on.


----------



## Sam21

hey everyone,
  
 check this out :
  
 http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-audio/razer-megalodon/
  
  
 it is basically a new surround engine, the so called maelstrom engine...I emailed razer and asked them whether this engine is the same engine used in the razer surround app, and they said that it isn't...I hope razer will make a separate sound card that can be used with any headphone, kinda like a sound card like Xonar U3 that isn't attached to a headset/phone...
  
 it has cool features ... you can increase the volume of virtual surround speakers...


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> hey everyone,
> 
> check this out :
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's not really anything new, it's been around since 2009. I find the headset uncomfortable.


----------



## Sam21

what about the surround engine ? is it as good as the DH and razer app ?
  
 I only care about the sound card...I wish they made a separate sound card...like just the soundcard part with headphone output and mic in jacks...


----------



## petaylor

I looked at the PC363D, but it's not wireless.


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> what about the surround engine ? is it as good as the DH and razer app ?
> 
> I only care about the sound card...I wish they made a separate sound card...like just the soundcard part with headphone output and mic in jacks...


 
  
 Honestly I can't really speak to the engine. I've only used the headset at a friend's place for a few minutes to watch a short video. Since it was uncomfortable I didn't bother listening critically to it as I had no intention of getting it. And since the sound processor is permanently part of the cable I didn't even think about it as an option. If I were to guess, I'd say the app is possibly better since it's been released more recently, but that's no guarantee of the quality of course. But since 2009 sound processing has improved. I personally prefer Dolby and THX processing to the Razer software.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

petaylor said:


> I looked at the PC363D, but it's not wireless.


 
  
 Oh sorry, I forgot that you were looking for a wireless headset.


----------



## AxelCloris

Anyone interested in trading their PS4 for a pair of HD650s? No? Didn't think so.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Anyone interested in trading their PS4 for a pair of HD650s? No? Didn't think so.


 
  
 Just put it up for sale in the classifieds... they should sell quickly for the right price...
  
 When is your L2 set to arrive? Now, that is something I'm interested in reading about...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Just put it up for sale in the classifieds... they should sell quickly for the right price...
> 
> When is your L2 set to arrive? Now, that is something I'm interested in reading about...


 
  
 I may end up doing that soon, it depends on how I like the T1 and L2. Speaking of the L2, they'll be here tomorrow. And thankfully I can use them while I'm packing. So as soon as they come in they'll be going on my head.


----------



## Change is Good

How much, total, did you pay to have the L2 imported... if I may ask?


axelcloris said:


> I may end up doing that soon, it depends on how I like the T1 and L2. Speaking of the L2, they'll be here tomorrow. And thankfully I can use them while I'm packing. So as soon as they come in they'll be going on my head.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> How much, total, did you pay to have the L2 imported... if I may ask?


 
  
 $277.41 after shipping and import fees. But I got lucky and found it on Amazon.it for €155,06. It jumped to €189,31 immediately after I ordered mine.


----------



## Change is Good

Nice! I guess you wanted them, right now, huh? lol

I think I'm more excited than you... and you ordered them...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Nice! I guess you wanted them, right now, huh? lol
> 
> I think I'm more excited than you... and you ordered them...


 
  
 Well, if word is correct and they're going to be $299 in the US in June, then I get them on sale 3 months before they launch. I still come out ahead.


----------



## Stillhart

Is this a Fidelio L2 you're talking about?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Is this a Fidelio L2 you're talking about?


 
  

  
 Pretty sexy...


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Well, if word is correct and they're going to be $299 in the US in June, then I get them on sale 3 months before they launch. I still come out ahead.


 
  
 So can we assume the Fidelio X2 will retail at $399? Isn't that what the X1 retailed for when it first released?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So can we assume the Fidelio X2 will retail at $399? Isn't that what the X1 retailed for when it first released?




I don't recall. I know it sat at $299 for the longest time. But it may have launched at $399.

[edit] Looking at camelcamelcamel, it was $400 as recently as June 2013, so yeah it was $399 at launch. If they do have a new X2 coming, that would make sense to price it the same as they did the X1 when it was new.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Is this a Fidelio L2 you're talking about?




Yes, the Fidelio L2. They'll be here tomorrow from Italy.

Man it's difficult to combine posts on mobile.

[Edit] Hoo boy, just learned that my T1's come in tomorrow as well. Going to be a good day for deliveries! Glad I checked my spam folder.


----------



## IronSnake

Hi guys, any XBOX One gamers using the latest Astro wireless setup? If so, which one would you recommend for FPS gaming?

This is for a friend of mine who insists minimum cable since I still couldn't convince him to use Astro Mixamp 5.8 with my AKG Q701 w/Annie pads and mic.

Thank you.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> *Yes, the Fidelio L2. They'll be here tomorrow from Italy*.
> 
> Man it's difficult to combine posts on mobile.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

ironsnake said:


> Hi guys, any XBOX One gamers using the latest Astro wireless setup? If so, which one would you recommend for FPS gaming?
> 
> This is for a friend of mine who insists minimum cable since I still couldn't convince him to use Astro Mixamp 5.8 with my AKG Q701 w/Annie pads and mic.
> 
> Thank you.


 
 Is there more than one wireless Astro that doesn't use the 5.8?  Or are you asking between the A50 and the PLYR1 (which is kind of an Astro, I guess)?


----------



## IronSnake

stillhart said:


> ironsnake said:
> 
> 
> > Hi guys, any XBOX One gamers using the latest Astro wireless setup? If so, which one would you recommend for FPS gaming?
> ...




Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was show him my old Mixamp 5.8 with the wireless client, which he complained of additional devices. So, I guess there's only two options like you stated: A50 vs PLYR1. Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

Did someone say 5.8 for sale?!? 

Didn't think so...


----------



## Fegefeuer

*THANK YOU SONY *










  
 "True spatial sound, synthesized by simulating the human ear... Created by real world experiments using speaker/microphone arrays."
  
  
  

  
  
 Sony was introducing real and actual binaural tech for the PS4 during their VR presentation tonight, lso based on head tracking. This is what the Chief Designer Cerny actually implied during earlier interviews last year when he "just" mentioned raycasting.
  
 This is more Aureal 3D resurrected than anything Creative, meaning it's much more advanced (of course also hugely advanced compared to A3D itself). 
  
  
 Also: New True Audio Demo.


----------



## sanj

hi, what do you think how will perform AKG K272HD in competitive?


----------



## widdyjudas

I'm just started to play BF4 since last week. Is it just me, or the surround sound with DH in BF4 is not as good as other competitive shooter like COD mw3 or CS go. Even Diablo3 got better 7.1 effect imo.
 I'm ordering titanfall in HK for 48usd. Anybody playing it here? is it any good?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> *THANK YOU SONY *:evil: :evil: :evil:
> 
> "True spatial sound, synthesized by simulating the human ear... Created by real world experiments using speaker/microphone arrays."
> 
> ...




Meh, it lacks rear positional cues. Like listen to the water fountain... it goes right between the head when it's supposed to be behind you. Other than that, I'm impressed. It will good for those who don't have virtual surround, at least.


----------



## martin vegas

Will I be able to get sound from the ps4's blue ray player over optical if my dac is stereo without any decoders..need to know this, I am buying the new console next week..it's either a ps4 or xbox one but I really want a ps4, if I can't get sound with a ps4 but can with the xbox one it will have to be the xbox one.my monitor has no speakers so I won't be able to get any sound only through my dac amp speakers and headset!


----------



## benbenkr

Actually, what I'm afraid of is if Sony keeps TrueAudio exclusive to their VR headset. In theory, it is entirely possible to implement it onto the DS4 (just a mixed audio pass through after all), but I have a very stinky feeling somewhere that Sony would use this to market Project Morpheus.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

martin vegas said:


> Will I be able to get sound from the ps4's blue ray player over optical if my dac is stereo without any decoders..need to know this, I am buying the new console next week..it's either a ps4 or xbox one but I really want a ps4, if I can't get sound with a ps4 but can with the xbox one it will have to be the xbox one.my monitor has no speakers so I won't be able to get any sound only through my dac amp speakers and headset!




You're supposed to make the systems send digital stereo or linear pcm, so that everything can get audio from the optical. Of course, you'll want to switch back to Dolby Digital if using asurround setup or dolby headphone, etc.

Game systems have been doing this since last gen.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> You're supposed to make the systems send digital stereo or linear pcm, so that everything can get audio from the optical. Of course, you'll want to switch back to Dolby Digital if using asurround setup or dolby headphone, etc.
> 
> Game systems have been doing this since last gen.


 

 My xbox 360 won't let me watch dvds with sound through the dac because my dac won't decode dolby.. but I can watch xbox video and play games with the sound on the xbox360 set to stereo..it won't let me watch dvds because it's in 5.1 and theres no sound with 5.1 or stereo my dac won't decode a 5.1 signal!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then run your optical out from your tv. Televisions the overwhelming majority of the time convert dolby to stereo if it the tv has an optical out. The only time it wont is when viewing over the air channels, and apps like netflix built onto the tv.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Then run your optical out from your tv. Televisions the overwhelming majority of the time convert dolby to stereo if it the tv has an optical out. The only time it wont is when viewing over the air channels, and apps like netflix built onto the tv.


 

 It's a monitor and has no sound whatsoever..i am regretting buying a monitor with no speakers a bit now..i got it because tv's have $h!t sound and wanted to use my dac with amp and speakers for better sound..i will be able to play games with sound but not blue ray,it's not that much of a problem I can watch Netflix instead!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You could always buy something like the Fiio D07 I believe, which converts everything to stereo.


----------



## paulsancheezzee

jhex2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I managed to figure out how to get a set of headphones working with the Xbox One with game audio and voice chat using this guide as a core.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you very much for this post!!! Finally got my setup to work!!!


----------



## Stillhart

Ugh.  I can't find any of the clip-on mics mentioned in the guide being sold domestically.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a clip-on that's not terrible and still inexpensive (like less than $10)?  I have a V-Moda Boompro, but I can't use it really with my Q701, only the X1.  I'd rather not get the Modmic because I want to be able to resell the Q's at some point.


----------



## conquerator2

I am selling my X1s for 190 USD shipped... Just putting it out here if anyone is interested... There's a classified for it.


----------



## Lukalop

Do you think that using balanced armature speakers will be more competitive for gaming because they are very sensitive to depicting minuscule sounds emitted.


----------



## Murder Mike

Just as a heads up to everyone here. Some people on slickdeals are having luck with their local Best Buy stores price matching Astro A40 Wired Set from the Microsoft Store. Seems pretty YMMV, but you might get lucky and can score a new Mixamp with cables for ~$70. You can always sell off the A40.


----------



## AxelCloris

The cans are here. First impressions of the L2 are promising. They don't require an amp to push nice volumes, which is awesome, but running through my E12 with crossfeed enabled and bass boost on... I don't often hear Alive by Krewella sound this big and fun. Elecrto House definitely sounds bigger on these than my M-80s. Going to be a fun time testing with these puppies.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> The cans are here. First impressions of the L2 are promising. They don't require an amp to push nice volumes, which is awesome, but running through my E12 with crossfeed enabled and bass boost on... I don't often hear Alive by Krewella sound this big and fun. Elecrto House definitely sounds bigger on these than my M-80s. Going to be a fun time testing with these puppies.




How's that soundstage? The L2 is semi-open, isn't it?

And... pictures, please!


----------



## Evshrug

Streaming PS4 gameplay go Ghosts, might switch ver to Thief... Twitch ID is Evshrug, channel name is "PS4 for Head-Fi" if anyone is interested.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Streaming PS4 gameplay go Ghosts, might switch ver to Thief... Twitch ID is Evshrug, channel name is "PS4 for Head-Fi" if anyone is interested.




What? No BF4? Boooooooooo! lol

Congrats on your PS4 purchase!


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks!
I got turned off by the BF3 community, so I picked CoD again because it's just something simpler to pick up and play. Plus, you know, Mad plays it. I didn't realize you stuck with BF.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm guessing *Axe*l is is headphone heaven...

*Evs* is enjoying his new PS4...

*MLE* is taking a break...

I'm stuck doing school work... while enjoying some Miles Davis, _KIND OF BLUE_, on my K612s...

Where's *chico* been?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I'm guessing *Axe*l is is headphone heaven...
> 
> *Evs* is enjoying his new PS4...
> 
> ...


 
 Haven't listened to that album in a while.  Threw it on and listened ton one song and decided I needed more pep.  I threw on some Hiromi's Sonicbloom for a more modern take on the genre.  I need to whip up a good reference playlist for testing...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I'm guessing *Axe*l is is headphone heaven...
> 
> *Evs* is enjoying his new PS4...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sadly, my priorities are still preparing for the move. I only got about an hour with the L2 today before the wife kidnapped me from home and we ran around getting things we still need like boxes and such. Blah.


----------



## Evshrug

I would say *Change is Good* is enjoying his new K612s 

Chico was enjoying some Beyer T1s and almost immediately was talking about next steps, but I think what his focus has been was building a computer. That can easily lead to a warren of distractions of it's own


----------



## grzesmlodzian

Small question: whether exists *"**Virtual Surround Devices"* with digital input (PS3) and digital output (DAC) ? Or bluetooth transmitter with surround support? I need something like that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So something like the Mixamp that has a digital out for other dacs? Sounds like an AVR's job. Look for a used Marantz or Harman Kardon of old, that still had Dolby Headphone.


----------



## grzesmlodzian

mad lust envy said:


> So something like the Mixamp that has a digital out for other dacs? Sounds like an AVR's job. Look for a used Marantz or Harman Kardon of old, that still had Dolby Headphone.


 

 Yes. Generally I need it for high quality bluetooth.
 I think AVR would be too expensive (even used) for me. My budget is ~150$. Is any other way?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Mixamp 5.8 has an optical passthrough. So you can use it for all your headphone gaming, and use the pass through to send to other dacs, though when you do that, you'll probably want to set your source to pcm/stereo only when using those devices, and switching back to Dolby Digital whwn using the Mixamp.

The 5.8 is sold on ebay and the microsoft store, and randomly elsewhere.


----------



## benbenkr

Awwww man. FFX/X-2 HD gone all the way to re-master its soundtracks, but why in Yevon's name didn't the devs include proper mixing for Dolby Digital?! The game is still stuck in stereo.


----------



## iamstumper

@grzesmlodzian I've seen the Yamaha RX-V375, which has Silent Cinema (".... variation of CINEMA DSP technology that Yamaha developed to let you listen in private to movies and other multi-channel sources ...." via headphones), refurbished at a local big box store for less than $150 and new from an online retailer for $180 (most sites have it for less than $250 normally).  Might be worth looking into.  It's also gotten good reviews as a solid no frills av receiver.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp 5.8 has an optical passthrough. So you can use it for all your headphone gaming, and use the pass through to send to other dacs, though when you do that, you'll probably want to set your source to pcm/stereo only when using those devices, and switching back to Dolby Digital whwn using the Mixamp.
> 
> The 5.8 is sold on ebay and the microsoft store, and randomly elsewhere.




And when you use the passthrough, it DOES NOT make it's Dolby Headphone mix, right?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> How's that soundstage? The L2 is semi-open, isn't it?
> 
> And... pictures, please!


 
  
 Soundstage is nice for a smaller portable can. It's bigger than you'd expect just by looking at it but certainly not the largest I've heard. It is semi-open which is great since I get partial isolation from the outside without the sound reverberating within the cups when I talk, meaning this could make on mean headset when combined with the BoomPro. Leakage is reasonable. It does let some sound out but not an obnoxious amount. And going back to isolation, the wife had to shout to get me to notice she was talking to me when I had music playing at a reasonable volume. But with no sound playing I could clearly hear and converse with her.
  
 As for photos, those'll have to wait a bit. All my photo gear is packed and in storage until we move. The good news is that I'm going to have a better tabletop studio at the new place since we have the space for it. The wife also gets an art studio in that room to enjoy her hobby. It's going to be a nice setup.
  
 Hopefully today I can get a little time with the T1, but I doubt that'll happen.


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> And when you use the passthrough, it DOES NOT make it's Dolby Headphone mix, right?


 
  
 No DHP mix on the optical out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> And when you use the passthrough, it DOES NOT make it's Dolby Headphone mix, right?




Pass through is just that, passes through unfiltered. It sends exactly what it receives, so if it gets Dolby Digital it will send Dolby Digital, which is why you'll want to change the source to stereo/pcm if you plan on using that signal with an audiphile dac that can't process Dolby Digital, which is...most.


----------



## NamelessPFG

grzesmlodzian said:


> Small question: whether exists *"**Virtual Surround Devices"* with digital input (PS3) and digital output (DAC) ? Or bluetooth transmitter with surround support? I need something like that.


 
  
 If you need a virtual surround processor that takes a digital surround signal, mixes it with virtual surround, and pipes it back out as a two-channel PCM S/PDIF stream for use with an audiophile DAC?
  
Smyth Realiser A8. I don't know of anything else that does that sort of thing without throwing in a DAC stage and only outputting analog; sorry about your wallet.
  
 If you need the above with USB audio chat mixing for PS3 use? Good luck with that; your dream device doesn't exist. All I can suggest is my approach of connecting the mic to a separate USB audio device from the surround processor and telling the PS3 to output voice chat through the main audio output alongside your typical game audio.


----------



## martin vegas

namelesspfg said:


> If you need a virtual surround processor that takes a digital surround signal, mixes it with virtual surround, and pipes it back out as a two-channel PCM S/PDIF stream for use with an audiophile DAC?
> 
> Smyth Realiser A8. I don't know of anything else that does that sort of thing without throwing in a DAC stage and only outputting analog; sorry about your wallet.
> 
> If you need the above with USB audio chat mixing for PS3 use? Good luck with that; your dream device doesn't exist. All I can suggest is my approach of connecting the mic to a separate USB audio device from the surround processor and telling the PS3 to output voice chat through the main audio output alongside your typical game audio.


 

 I agree..i remember the realiser thread a while ago when people used it with the ps audio dac and a woo audio wes with stax sr009!


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## grzesmlodzian

mad lust envy said:


> The Mixamp 5.8 has an optical passthrough. So you can use it for all your headphone gaming, and use the pass through to send to other dacs, though when you do that, you'll probably want to set your source to pcm/stereo only when using those devices, and switching back to Dolby Digital whwn using the Mixamp.
> 
> The 5.8 is sold on ebay and the microsoft store, and randomly elsewhere.


 
 Hm... this won't resolve my problem. I want in the same time use own dac/bt transmitter and virtual surround sound.
  


iamstumper said:


> @grzesmlodzian I've seen the Yamaha RX-V375, which has Silent Cinema (".... variation of CINEMA DSP technology that Yamaha developed to let you listen in private to movies and other multi-channel sources ...." via headphones), refurbished at a local big box store for less than $150 and new from an online retailer for $180 (most sites have it for less than $250 normally).  Might be worth looking into.  It's also gotten good reviews as a solid no frills av receiver.


 
 The problem is that i want get *digital* virtual surround.
  


mad lust envy said:


> So something like the Mixamp that has a digital out for other dacs? Sounds like an AVR's job. Look for a used Marantz or Harman Kardon of old, that still had Dolby Headphone.


 
*New question*: Each AVR with digital output and virtual surround sound support will resolve my problem? I mean can be virtual surround sound restricted to, for example, headphone output only?
  
 Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> If you need a virtual surround processor that takes a digital surround signal, mixes it with virtual surround, and pipes it back out as a two-channel PCM S/PDIF stream for use with an audiophile DAC?


 
  Yes, that's it! Or possibly can be bluetooth transmitter with surround sound support.
  
 Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> Smyth Realiser A8. I don't know of anything else that does that sort of thing without throwing in a DAC stage and only outputting analog; sorry about your wallet.


 
 I put these words into ebay search. Thanks, but no. Just no 
  


namelesspfg said:


> If you need the above with USB audio chat mixing for PS3 use? Good luck with that; your dream device doesn't exist. All I can suggest is my approach of connecting the mic to a separate USB audio device from the surround processor and telling the PS3 to output voice chat through the main audio output alongside your typical game audio.


 
 I don't think about headset yet. Now I only need virtual surround sound in my headphones over dac/bt transmitter without losing quality before that devices.


----------



## Stillhart

grzesmlodzian said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> namelesspfg said:
> ...


 
 Wait, can't you just do this with a Creative Omni?  The Omni would use USB to grab the signal from a PC, DSP the virtual surround, and output via optical as a stereo signal.  Or do you want an optical-in also instead of USB?


----------



## grzesmlodzian

stillhart said:


> Wait, can't you just do this with a Creative Omni?  The Omni would use USB to grab the signal from a PC, DSP the virtual surround, and output via optical as a stereo signal.  Or do you want an optical-in also instead of USB?


 

 I want play on PS3 (optical).


----------



## Stillhart

grzesmlodzian said:


> I want play on PS3 (optical).


 
  
 Okay, gotcha.  Well my last suggestion is maybe using a sound card with Optical in and out (like the Sound Blaster Z or whatever) to do the same type of thing.  You'd have to setup a PC within optical-cord-distance of your PS3 to act as the DSP, but I suspect it'd work.  You could have it double as an HTPC or something.  :-D


----------



## NamelessPFG

stillhart said:


> Okay, gotcha.  Well my last suggestion is maybe using a sound card with Optical in and out (like the Sound Blaster Z or whatever) to do the same type of thing.  You'd have to setup a PC within optical-cord-distance of your PS3 to act as the DSP, but I suspect it'd work.  You could have it double as an HTPC or something.  :-D



People have tried that sort of thing countless times already.

It doesn't work. Why? PC sound cards CANNOT DECODE Dolby Digital or DTS signals fed into their S/PDIF inputs, with few exceptions (those being old PCI cards I haven't tested yet). Apparently, Dolby and DTS don't like the thought of people being able to record such signals with PCs; I can't think of any other reason they wouldn't license out the tech for decoding on the inputs. (Do not confuse this with ENcoding the OUTputs with Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect; that's the inverse process.)

They can only take in stereo PCM or nothing at all. Processing a stereo signal (unless it's actually Dolby Pro Logic II-encoded, which only happens with PS2/GCN/Wii games) into virtual surround is pointless.

Using external DACs with pre-processed S/PDIF signals is easy with PC games, but console games? Yeah, the Smyth Realiser is your ONLY chance for that sort of thing, and you have to use LPCM over HDMI there. Better pinch your pennies!


----------



## Stillhart

Thanks, really helpful!
  
 Does the PS4 let you use a USB DAC?  I don't have one, but I thought I read something about people using the USB port for sound...


----------



## Change is Good

Yep, this is it for me...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Thanks, really helpful!
> 
> Does the PS4 let you use a USB DAC?  I don't have one, but I thought I read something about people using the USB port for sound...



Ummm... I think it supports USB for microphones, but IDK about general soundcards. I'd test it but I loaned my Omni to a friend, and I think typical DACs would just get stereo PCM.

If it does work though, I'll be sure to come back and say "Neeener-kneener-poo-poo!!  "





change is good said:


> Yep, this is it for me...



The clouds have parted, and You have achieved satisfaction/contentment?


----------



## Johnsonr520

All right question on a setup. I just got an Xbox one and the audio confuses me so tell me if this works. Optical cable from Xbox to turtle beach DSS. USB power from Xbox to DSS. Sennheiser PC 360 (has two audio connectors one for mic and one for audio) audio connector to DSS and mic connection to the chat adaptor from turtle beach on controller? So this would assume control game volume on DSS and chat volume on chat adaptor?


----------



## Stillhart

Sounds about right assuming you can get the chat adapter from Turtle Beach.  I thought only MS made em...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Sounds about right assuming you can get the chat adapter from Turtle Beach.  I thought only MS made em...



M$ makes a chat adapter, but basically he would need to connect an external mic to the chat adaptor and make chat audio play through the "speakers" (in this case passing chat audio through the optical cable and this DSS). The DSS only supports chat with Turtle Beach headsets, but it's overall pretty easy to work around.


----------



## Johnsonr520

I have a set of turtle beaches that I bought with the system that's why I have the adaptor. Now would using the chat through speakers method, can I still adjust chat volume on the chat adaptor?


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> M$ makes a chat adapter, but basically he would need to connect an external mic to the chat adaptor and make chat audio play through the "speakers" (in this case passing chat audio through the optical cable and this DSS). The DSS only supports chat with Turtle Beach headsets, but it's overall pretty easy to work around.


 
 I've had success with the Recon3D by plugging my headphones into the Recon and my mic into the chat adapter without doing anything in the settings.  I assume the TB works similarly, but I haven't used it so maybe not.  I wonder if the Xbone knows that only the mic is connected and routes accordingly...


----------



## Stillhart

johnsonr520 said:


> I have a set of turtle beaches that I bought with the system that's why I have the adaptor. Now would using the chat through speakers method, can I still adjust chat volume on the chat adaptor?


 
 Nope.  For me, I had to turn down the game's volume to achieve game/chat balance.  It kinda sucks for Titanfall since I want it to be loud for soundwhoring, but when **** hits the fan, I can't hear chat AT ALL.  lol


----------



## Johnsonr520

Damn : \ what if instead of a DSS I use an astro mixamp?


----------



## Stillhart

johnsonr520 said:


> Damn : \ what if instead of a DSS I use an astro mixamp?


 
  
 I haven't used that either, but I think that's one of the main selling points.  FYI, someone is selling a used one in the gear section today.


----------



## Johnsonr520

Well on 360 I used one for that purpose, I just have to make sure it works with the one before I make that purchase


----------



## Stillhart

johnsonr520 said:


> Well on 360 I used one for that purpose, I just have to make sure it works with the one before I make that purchase


 
  
 I pretty sure the only difference between the 360 and the One is that you need the chat adapter on the One.  Everything else should work the same.  I say this based on using the directions for the 360 to install my Recond3D and my PLYR1.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> The clouds have parted, and You have achieved satisfaction/contentment?


 

 Satisfaction/contentment is an understatement...


----------



## Johnsonr520

stillhart said:


> I pretty sure the only difference between the 360 and the One is that you need the chat adapter on the One.  Everything else should work the same.  I say this based on using the directions for the 360 to install my Recond3D and my PLYR1.



I just finished watching some videos and that seems right. So looks like time to save the pennies for a mix amp


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Satisfaction/contentment is an understatement...


 
  
 Congrats. I wish I had already hit that point. So far I've only done so with my work headphones, the M-80, and my CIEM, the 1964-Q. But I am digging the L2s and I spent a few minutes with the T1 earlier before packing it up with most of my headphones. Super comfy, but would be even more so if the cups were slightly oval shaped like the HD650s.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I've had the V-MODA BoomPro for about 2 months now and I've gotta say that the cable is pretty horrible. It tangles really easily, a few strands from the braiding have come loose near the top and the braiding has ripped apart maybe half an inch to the point where I can see a little bit of the plastic that covers the actual wiring. The product still works just like new but the cabling looks like crap. I don't think V-MODA will offer me a replacement either since they don't consider cosmetic damage a part of their "premier warranty".
  
 I take care of all my electronics really well. I handle with care and always place the items in a safe place. I'm not sure if my cable is just defective or if others will eventually run into these issues. I'll contact V-MODA tomorrow and see how they handle my situation.
  
 To MLE, I thought the MA900's bass was a little too anemic for my tastes. The X1's bass is where it's at. Both great headphones and I do miss my MA900's at times. Too bad about the non-removable cable though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Contentment for me is...not easy. I have been very happy with many headphones to be end all in terms of sound, but then comfort gets in the way. Or I get a super comfy headphone, but sound isn't what I want. I think if I were to add things up, there are only a few headphones that I could live with, and have the least amount of tradeoffs:

HD650
K702 Annie
MA900

Notice how all 3 of these are open, warm, non-fatiguing headphones. the 650 works because of it's oval shaped earcups which I prefer greatly over round ones, as it's easier to lay down with. Both the AKg and Sony are a little too big to lay down with.

That's it. yup. Where's the X1? Unfortunately, the bass needs a little more control for my taste. What about the D7000? The D7000 would almost be perfect, if it weren't for the pads, and the headband which doesn't sit right on my head.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I've had the V-MODA BoomPro for about 2 months now and I've gotta say that the cable is pretty horrible. It tangles really easily, a few strands from the braiding have come loose near the top and the braiding has ripped apart maybe half an inch to the point where I can see a little bit of the plastic that covers the actual wiring. The product still works just like new but the cabling looks like crap. I don't think V-MODA will offer me a replacement either since they don't consider cosmetic damage a part of their "premier warranty".
> 
> I take care of all my electronics really well. I handle with care and always place the items in a safe place. I'm not sure if my cable is just defective or if others will eventually run into these issues. I'll contact V-MODA tomorrow and see how they handle my situation.


 
  
 I've had the BoomPro since August and while I agree with you that it does tangle, my experience with the durability is quite different. I haven't had any of the braiding come loose or rip open. I wear collared shirts quite often and the cable does tend to rub against them. I also have a V-Moda audio cable on my M-80s at work. Neither the BoomPro nor the audio cable show any sign of unusual wear due to friction or normal use. It could be possible that you received a bad one from the batch.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> I've had the BoomPro since August and while I agree with you that it does tangle, my experience with the durability is quite different. I haven't had any of the braiding come loose or rip open. I wear collared shirts quite often and the cable does tend to rub against them. I also have a V-Moda audio cable on my M-80s at work. Neither the BoomPro nor the audio cable show any sign of unusual wear due to friction or normal use. It could be possible that you received a bad one from the batch.


 
 I'm thinking I got a bad egg as well. I haven't seen anyone else complain about the braiding coming apart in any way. I hope V-MODA comes through and offers me a replacement. I'll find out tomorrow. Doesn't V-MODA advertise the cable to be tangle-free?


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I'm thinking I got a bad egg as well. I haven't seen anyone else complain about the braiding coming apart in any way. I hope V-MODA comes through and offers me a replacement. I'll find out tomorrow. Doesn't V-MODA advertise the cable to be tangle-free?


 
  
 I've never seen them advertise that it doesn't tangle. The BoomPro does tangle a bit more easily than the audio cable I have. And from what I've read about their customer service, it seems V-Moda is a classy company, so they may take care of you in an exchange. I've asked them about pads before and they said that if they ever wear out I can send in my pair to get them replaced, even outside the warranty period.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> I've never seen them advertise that it doesn't tangle. The BoomPro does tangle a bit more easily than the audio cable I have. And from what I've read about their customer service, it seems V-Moda is a classy company, so they may take care of you in an exchange. I've asked them about pads before and they said that if they ever wear out I can send in my pair to get them replaced, even outside the warranty period.


 
 Do you untangle the cable or leave it as is? It's pretty annoying since it's not so easy to untangle.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> Do you untangle the cable or leave it as is? It's pretty annoying since it's not so easy to untangle.


 
  
 I try my best to keep it untangled. You're right, it does resist untangling but I can usually get it looking like normal.  Since I keep in one place and use it only for gaming it doesn't get out of control.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Starting to write in the Astro A30 review. I know I said I need a break, but I'd like to get the A30 and Ultrasone HS-15 out of the way, so I can be in peace for awhile.


----------



## JHex2

johnsonr520 said:


> All right question on a setup. I just got an Xbox one and the audio confuses me so tell me if this works. Optical cable from Xbox to turtle beach DSS. USB power from Xbox to DSS. Sennheiser PC 360 (has two audio connectors one for mic and one for audio) audio connector to DSS and mic connection to the chat adaptor from turtle beach on controller? So this would assume control game volume on DSS and chat volume on chat adaptor?


 
  
 Hey, I managed to get it all working using a couple adapters. You cant plug the mic straight into the chat adapter. You need a PC Headset to Mobile phone adapter. You plug the mic into the mic end of the pc headset adapter, and then I used a 1 female to 2 male 3.5mm adapter to split the headphones, one to DSS, the other to chat adapter. I listed out instructions earlier in the thread, but they are easily missed. Feel free to PM if you have any questions.


----------



## Boubos

Anybody ever tried for gaming; Stax 202 with 212 amp, and the Astro Mixamp. I wonder how this setup will work in FPS like COD for positioning


----------



## NerdsofSteel

hi, is the a500x or ad500x suitable for gaming? and is it ok to use them if you have a small head? These are the 2(other than the creative aurvana live and akg k240) I want to import through ebay. budget is $120 with the shipping


----------



## DJDREEM

Can someone please tell me which Mixamp this is? the model number is ma20-ag-1000 and here's a picture of the box
  
 ~http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDU5OA==/z/PrEAAOxy0NtTGAeW/$_80.JPG
  
 will this work with my PS4 out the box and is it any good? cheers


----------



## Stillhart

djdreem said:


> Can someone please tell me which Mixamp this is? the model number is ma20-ag-1000 and here's a picture of the box
> 
> ~http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDU5OA==/z/PrEAAOxy0NtTGAeW/$_80.JPG
> 
> will this work with my PS4 out the box and is it any good? cheers


 
  
 Have you looked into this one:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/710918/fs-astro-mix-amp?  Head-fi'er with good reputation.


----------



## Croozer

I have been using the Denon 7100 with my PC while playing Titanfall, these sound great.


----------



## DJDREEM

stillhart said:


> Have you looked into this one:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/710918/fs-astro-mix-amp?  Head-fi'er with good reputation.


 
  
 I live in the UK so the one i'm looking at will be a little easier to get. Do you know if It will work for my PS4 out of the box.


----------



## Stillhart

djdreem said:


> I live in the UK so the one i'm looking at will be a little easier to get. Do you know if It will work for my PS4 out of the box.


 
  
 I don't know anything about which version it is, but this whole guide is all about people using the Mixamp with their consoles.  I'd be very surprised if it didn't work with your PS4.  The only think I can imgaine you'd might need is a random cable or something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't tell from the image he posted.


----------



## DJDREEM

~http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Astro-A40-Mixamp-MA20-AG-1000-/00/s/MTA2N1gxNjAw/z/pFkAAOxy1yZSL9~H/$T2eC16JHJF8FFqHZW,97BSL9+G2bSQ~~60_35.JPG
  
 Here's a pic of the amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a 2011 Mixamp. It will work just fine. As long as it comes with or you have a mini usb as well as optical cable, you're golden.


----------



## DJDREEM

Nice one! thanks  is this amp any good and any issues with durability? if not i'll go right ahead and buy it.
  
 cheers!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you even checked the first post? I mean.... it's right there.


----------



## Evshrug

jhex2 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I managed to figure out how to get a set of headphones working with the Xbox One with game audio and voice chat using this guide as a core.
> 
> ...







jhex2 said:


> Hey, I managed to get it all working using a couple adapters. You cant plug the mic straight into the chat adapter. You need a PC Headset to Mobile phone adapter. You plug the mic into the mic end of the pc headset adapter, and then I used a 1 female to 2 male 3.5mm adapter to split the headphones, one to DSS, the other to chat adapter. I listed out instructions earlier in the thread, but they are easily missed. Feel free to PM if you have any questions.




It was a decent little mini guide, maybe Mad can add a hyperlink inside the guide for others to reference? Quote me:

How to get a set of headphones working with the Xbox One with game audio and voice chat

I'll adapt a PS4 version too, I'll nice it up during my next break at work:
How to get a set of headphones working with the PS4 with game audio and voice chat


----------



## Mackem

Anyone help me out with finding a foam windscreen thing in the UK that will fit snugly over the BoomPro mic? The one I have off a Turtle Beach headset is far too big and slides off all the time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What about one that comes off clip on microphones like the ones on my first post?


----------



## DADDYDC650

I contacted V-MODA in regards to my defective BoomPro. They are going to send me out a replacement today. Great customer support! I will be purchasing V-MODA products in the near future.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I contacted V-MODA in regards to my defective BoomPro. They are going to send me out a replacement today. Great customer support! I will be purchasing V-MODA products in the near future.


 
  
 Glad to hear they're getting it sorted out. I've only had good dealings with them so far and I'd love to continue to do business with them.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> What about one that comes off clip on microphones like the ones on my first post?



I liked your updated DSP demo video, I'm gonna steal it for my guide  I'm also gonna make a video demonstrating various headphone setups, so people can see how that can look. Didn't end up having time to eat AND prettify my PS4 setup post... but I will, and link/credit JHex2 for writing it up for XBO.

I can't find your link for the DX mic or the generic lapel I found on Amazon on your guide anymore, and under your "lists" spoiler you've got a Chico heading I don't think you mean to have there.





daddydc650 said:


> I contacted V-MODA in regards to my defective BoomPro. They are going to send me out a replacement today. Great customer support! I will be purchasing V-MODA products in the near future.



Six star support. I'd love to see a fully curcumaural version of the M80, the M-100 is good but tune it like the M80 (with better extension, like it has now but with less bass slightly more mids) and make the earcups a bit wider in circumference... this is probably not the best place to post suggestions, but I'm sure Axel will back me up that V-MODA is a surprise and makes very capable closed headphones.


----------



## Vader2k

mackem said:


> Anyone help me out with finding a foam windscreen thing in the UK that will fit snugly over the BoomPro mic? The one I have off a Turtle Beach headset is far too big and slides off all the time.


 
  
 I recently ordered this set off Amazon here in the states:
  

http://www.amazon.com/Headset-Lapel-Lavalier-Microphone-Windscreens/dp/B005LR0ETO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1395429510&sr=8-7
  
 Not sure if it's available in the UK or not though.  What was nice about this one was that a reviewer had confirmed that it worked great on the BoomPro, so I decided to give it a shot.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> Glad to hear they're getting it sorted out. I've only had good dealings with them so far and I'd love to continue to do business with them.


 
 I'm supposed to receive the new BoomPro according to rep David. Amazing!


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I've pondered hitting the 1-click purchase on some hd650s today. Worried I won't like the treble. It's either those or the w1000x. On the graphs the x has great treble extension. People say it's. Got a romantic quality to it. But I can't find any comparisons to the 650. I could just keep waiting as these funds are technically for the he560, th900 or jade 2. Just socks I don't have any headphones now except my a40s.... Bleh


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I'd estate TTYL but I doubt I'd get a reply


----------



## NamelessPFG

boubos said:


> Anybody ever tried for gaming; Stax 202 with 212 amp, and the Astro Mixamp. I wonder how this setup will work in FPS like COD for positioning



It'll work great; I know that Stax setup first-hand, alongside a few other Lambda setups. The entire line excels at competitive gaming.

I still prefer the old Normal bias Lambda in terms of sound signature, though.


----------



## AxelCloris

daddydc650 said:


> I'm supposed to receive the new BoomPro according to rep David. Amazing!




There's a new version? Did he happen to mention what has been changed/improved?


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> There's a new version? Did he happen to mention what has been changed/improved?


 
 I meant new as in brand new. The only improvement I would make is to make the cable tangle-free.


----------



## Boubos

namelesspfg said:


> It'll work great; I know that Stax setup first-hand, alongside a few other Lambda setups. The entire line excels at competitive gaming.
> 
> I still prefer the old Normal bias Lambda in terms of sound signature, though.




Thanks NamelessPMG, after reading this thread, I decided to get rid of my Turtle Beach wireless, and I ordered an Astro Mixamp to really feel thru define sound positioning in my FPS.

I was planning to buy Q701's to mix with the Mixamp, but I have that set of Stax 202/212 siting in my basement doing nothing.

Before spending money for nothing, I was wondering if they could manage something close to the Q701.

Should received the Mixamp next week, will post my evaluation.


----------



## leperkhaun

So I just got my headphones the other day.  Wow I cannot believe what I was missing out on.  the difference is amazing.


----------



## Evshrug

vader2k said:


> I recently ordered this set off Amazon here in the states:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.amazon.com/Headset-Lapel-Lavalier-Microphone-Windscreens/dp/B005LR0ETO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1395429510&sr=8-7
And in case people are wondering which lapel mic I use (cheap but sounds great), it's these:
http://www.amazon.com/Neewer-3-5mm-Hands-Computer-Microphone/dp/B005DJOIHE/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_2_2



daddydc650 said:


> I'm supposed to receive the new BoomPro according to rep David. Amazing!



Like I said, six star support, I'm a fan of their business model in working towards long-term customer relationships. Even if the cable wrap getting frayed is cosmetic, it's nice of them to cover shipping and a replacement mic. Are you sending them back the old one?



leperkhaun said:


> So I just got my headphones the other day.  Wow I cannot believe what I was missing out on.  the difference is amazing.



Grats! Which one did you decide on? The first time you hear truly great headphones... it's eye opening, huh?


----------



## leperkhaun

I got the NAD Viso HP50s.
  
 I dont think it was a good idea.  I have a family so I got a closed headphones.  Now im going.....well if these sound this good, maybe I should get an open set for the times i can use it............


----------



## Change is Good

leperkhaun said:


> I got the NAD Viso HP50s.
> 
> I dont think it was a good idea.  I have a family so I got a closed headphones.  Now im going.....well if these sound this good, maybe I should get an open set for the times i can use it............




Very nice choice. I've read nothing but high praise on those. I even considered them, myself, as my portable but decided to go back to the M500 on-ear, instead.


----------



## leperkhaun

Im really liking them, wife complains that im not paying attention to her haha.


----------



## Change is Good

Hmmm... seems like you need an open headphone to alternate with? Try out the AKG K612 PRO and some K702 pads. Its a safe choice at under $200 ($165 at razordog using coupon *K612PRO* and $31 for the pads at AKG parts).

Don't want the wife getting too jealous... but the HP50 might


----------



## conquerator2

doctacosmos said:


> I've pondered hitting the 1-click purchase on some hd650s today. Worried I won't like the treble. It's either those or the w1000x. On the graphs the x has great treble extension. People say it's. Got a romantic quality to it. But I can't find any comparisons to the 650. I could just keep waiting as these funds are technically for the he560, th900 or jade 2. Just socks I don't have any headphones now except my a40s.... Bleh


 
 Don't go with the 1000X... like I did. They are closed and they don't hold a candle to a good [200-300$] open back headphone...
 YMMV, but the W1000X really excelled only in the midrange  [though I've heard better], the bass and treble extension is not that impressive and as with all closed headphones, the lack of air/soundstage expansion doesn't help anything...
 Just my 2c obviously :] Waiting for the 560 and Jade2 possibly later. The Oppo planar seems to be lost somewhere in translation.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Hmmm... seems like you need an open headphone to alternate with? Try out the AKG K612 PRO and some K702 pads. Its a safe choice at under $200 ($165 at razordog using coupon *K612PRO* and $31 for the pads at AKG parts).
> 
> Don't want the wife getting too jealous... but the HP50 might


 
 I'd second that.
 Pads notwithstanding in my case but,,, I am just happier with the stock ones [all ears hear differently ]
 I'd add the MA900 for consideration too :]


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> I'd second that.
> Pads notwithstanding in my case but,,, I am just happier with the stock ones [all ears hear differently ]
> I'd add the MA900 for consideration too :]




Matter of preference, definitely. I tried going back to stock... and couldn't stand it for very long. It still sounds nice, but the decrease in both air and bass makes it less enjoyable for me. It also makes the mids a bit too forward and grainy for my taste. It actually seems as if the mids on the stock K612 are more forward than that of the K712/K702 AEs (based off memory)?

You know... I meant to ask you why you chose to sell the x1 rather than the ma900. IMO, the X1 is more of a compliment to the K612 than the MA900... but I'm guessing by your taste its not?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Matter of preference, definitely. I tried going back to stock... and couldn't stand it for very long. It still sounds nice, but the decrease in both air and bass makes it less enjoyable for me. It also makes the mids a bit too forward and grainy for my taste. It actually seems as if the mids on the stock K612 are more forward than that of the K712/K702 AEs (based off memory).
> 
> You know... I meant to ask you why you chose to sell the x1 rather than the ma900. IMO, the X1 is more of a compliment to the K612 than the MA900... but I'm guessing by your taste its not?




Oh I believe the X1 is indeed the most different of the three. It's not just to my taste. X1 is the crowd pleasing headphone in essence. And it might quite be a bit better than the MAs but the signature is probably almost an exact opposite of what I like.
The K612 and MA900 complement each other just fine for me. X1 is a headphone that just doesn't get any use because the K612 took its place as the gaming phone.
With the 560 release, I really won't have any use for it.
Besides the X2 might be of interest to me too.
I don't regret having the X1 as it is a great headphone but it doesn't excell at what I deem important.


----------



## Change is Good

Ah, that explains why you didn't like the K702 pads on the K612. You likes your forward mids! 

MLE, meet conq! 

Conq, meet MLE!



And just to clarify, the K702 pads on the K612 (to me) doesn't recess the mids... it just evens them out with its added soundstage and bass. But, of course, to those that like their forward mids... they will seem recessed.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Matter of preference, definitely. I tried going back to stock... and couldn't stand it for very long. It still sounds nice, but the decrease in both air and bass makes it less enjoyable for me. It also makes the mids a bit too forward and grainy for my taste. *It actually seems as if the mids on the stock K612 are more forward than that of the K712/K702 AEs (based off memory)?*
> 
> You know... I meant to ask you why you chose to sell the x1 rather than the ma900. IMO, the X1 is more of a compliment to the K612 than the MA900... but I'm guessing by your taste its not?




h34r:
More... Mids?
So, for someone who really liked the forward mids of the MA900, but sorely missed the extension of the AKGs... Is this the happy blend?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> h34r:
> More... Mids?
> So, for someone who really liked the forward mids of the MA900, but sorely missed the extension of the AKGs... Is this the happy blend?




Remember, this is based off memory. But yes, if my assumption is correct... though the mids on the MA900 are still slightly more forward and have a larger mid-bass hump.

I think that's what conq has been trying to tell people since the first day he got the K612. Now it all makes sense lol


----------



## Evshrug

*shuffles feet*
well... I wanna hear them.

How would you describe grain in mids?


----------



## Change is Good

Now you know I am not the one to describe things in detail lol.

Remember the upper mid grain that chico mentioned in his Annie/K712 comparison? Very similar to that. And if the mids on these are indeed more forward than that of the Annie... than no wonder why I prefer the K702 pads on the K612.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Now you know I am not the one to describe things in detail lol.
> 
> Remember the upper mid grain that chico mentioned in his Annie/K712 comparison? Very similar to that. And if the mids on these are indeed more forward than that of the Annie... than no wonder why I prefer the K702 pads on the K612.



I think it's just fear to put your words out there 

I got a new, special package from Amazon!!!! Always fun!!!



Ooooh, what is it what is it what...



Oh.

Well still, a few gaming goodies (and I did need that trimmer to make my beard salon-sweet). There's an adapter cable (thanks for finding, Stillhart!) to basically make a smartphone plug into the common two-port PC headphone and mic connections, to let me plug in my mic to my Mixamp 5.8 same time as my standard headphones. There's also a pair of Kontrol Freeks, I've read good things and my 360 controller has worn to the plastic under it's grip, so I think it's a good time to test that before I transition to mostly playing on the PS4.

Speaking of, I love the ergonomics of the new Dual Shock 4, particularly I think it's cool that you can move the controller like a Wii mote (that doesn't look like a... Giant... stick of butter), and I adjusted a lot quicker to the domed sticks than I thought I would, but when I sustain pressing on a stick like running in an FPS I have to readjust my position because my thumb slips a bit.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Thanks conquerator. Glad I had someone chime in. I couldn't find any information on them.


----------



## AxelCloris

The Alpha Dogs have arrived.


----------



## DADDYDC650

axelcloris said:


> The Alpha Dogs have arrived.


You lucky dog. Let us know your impressions.


----------



## Stillhart

daddydc650 said:


> You lucky dog. Let us know your impressions.


 
  
 He can't, he's teasing us because all of his audio equipment is in boxes.


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> He can't, he's teasing us because all of his audio equipment is in boxes.


 
  
 Hey, I'm teasing myself as well. Besides, I couldn't test them anyways even if I wasn't packed; I purchased the XLR cable to pair with my Geek Pulse X when it comes in, and I haven't made the XLR to 1/4" adapter yet, because I wasn't expecting the Alphas for another 2 weeks or so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, chicolom's faq is on my list because hes the one who wrote it, though when I add to it, I may have to edit the name and things and stuff.


----------



## NamelessPFG

boubos said:


> Thanks NamelessPMG, after reading this thread, I decided to get rid of my Turtle Beach wireless, and I ordered an Astro Mixamp to really feel thru define sound positioning in my FPS.
> 
> I was planning to buy Q701's to mix with the Mixamp, but I have that set of Stax 202/212 siting in my basement doing nothing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The first thing I recommend is visiting and looking over The Entry Level Stax Thread.
  
 I can't compare Stax to the usual AKGs because I've never heard a single AKG headphone thus far (was hoping to sample the K612, but a shipping mishap got 'em sent back to Change), but a lot of other remarks I've read on here generally rank them above the K701 overall.
  
 Do keep in mind that with the Mixamp, you'll need a male 3.5mm TRS to dual RCA adapter cable so you can connect the output to your SRM-212. I'm not sure that the Mixamp package includes such a cable.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> More... Mids?
> So, for someone who really liked the forward mids of the MA900, but sorely missed the extension of the AKGs... Is this the happy blend?


 

 I've compared the K702 AE/K712 and the K612 directly, the K612 is more forward in the mids than either. Yes, I think so, the K612 replaced my MA900s . I think it will be a happy blend of the two, the mids are clearer too, the MA900 sounds a tad veiled compared to the K612.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A30 review is coming along... let's just say it may upset Astro.


----------



## kudo

Been thinking of getting headphones for PS3, I currently have HD228 which I think sound really distant and veiled straight through the TV's headphone out, so I want to ask:
 What headphones would you recommend unamped for PS3?
 I've been thinking of NuForce HP-800 or Creative Aurvana Live! and that is my budget 100 dollarish.
 Thanks.


----------



## conquerator2

With the X1 sold it's only the K612 and MA900... That's untill the HE-560 finally releases 
I'll have my forward mids. Till then ;D


----------



## AxelCloris

Damn, MLE is tearing it up today on the Ghosts today.
  
 http://www.twitch.tv/madlustenvy


----------



## DannyRox23

I just want to put my two cents in because I own plenty of Sennheiser products (I mod them, as well, but not the HD6xx series and HD800.) You made the HD650 sound best compared to the HD598. The mids in the HD598 are actually more detailed or just as good compared to the HD650 (am I going crazy? might be my DAC.) With a little modding and rewiring of the HD598, you get the same exact sound with better soundstage, compared to HD650 or EVEN the HD600. With the modding and wiring finished, the HD598 become HIGHER quality headphones. Don't get me wrong: I love the natural feeling of my HD600, and the dark feeling of the HD650, but the soundstage is just soooooooooo good in the HD598. However; comparing it to the HD800... DIFFERENT story! The HD800 simply explodes their trousers.


----------



## martin vegas

kudo said:


> Been thinking of getting headphones for PS3, I currently have HD228 which I think sound really distant and veiled straight through the TV's headphone out, so I want to ask:
> What headphones would you recommend unamped for PS3?
> I've been thinking of NuForce HP-800 or Creative Aurvana Live! and that is my budget 100 dollarish.
> Thanks!


 
 Some of the sennheiser headphones aren't that good..the hd sp25 are garbage..better off getting the hd202 over them..you have got to watch out which ones you get..some have no bass..try and demo them first!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, chicolom's faq is on my list because hes the one who wrote it, though when I add to it, I may have to edit the name and things and stuff.




I mean "Chicolom's FAQ" heading shows up twice (once inside a spoiler section, where I don't think you meant it to be), and I didn't see the links for the DX mic or the Neweer lapel mic on Amazon.

I stayed up late, and slept through your awesome gameplay this morn


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dannyrox23 said:


> I just want to put my two cents in because I own plenty of Sennheiser products (I mod them, as well, but not the HD6xx series and HD800.) You made the HD650 sound best compared to the HD598. The mids in the HD598 are actually more detailed or just as good compared to the HD650 (am I going crazy? might be my DAC.) With a little modding and rewiring of the HD598, you get the same exact sound with better soundstage, compared to HD650 or EVEN the HD600. With the modding and wiring finished, the HD598 become HIGHER quality headphones. Don't get me wrong: I love the natural feeling of my HD600, and the dark feeling of the HD650, but the soundstage is just soooooooooo good in the HD598. However; comparing it to the HD800... DIFFERENT story! The HD800 simply explodes their trousers.




I stated the hd598 has really forward mids. Too much, they sound shouty at times. I dont like the tonality of the 598. The 650 is one of the most natural sounding headphones I've owned, with liquid mids.

Mids don't have to be so forward like on the 598. Then it becomes grating like too much treble. It also lacks the body and smoothness of the 650.

598 makes for a really good soundwhoring can, which is why I rated it so high.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> I mean "Chicolom's FAQ" heading shows up twice (once inside a spoiler section, where I don't think you meant it to be), and I didn't see the links for the DX mic or the Neweer lapel mic on Amazon.
> 
> I stayed up late, and slept through your awesome gameplay this morn




Ahhhh, I see what you mean. That was intentional, but I guess its redundant. Ill change it soon. Pm me the stuff you want added about the xb1.

The mic links are there, unless you meant you missed them before.


----------



## DannyRox23

mad lust envy said:


> I stated the hd598 has really forward mids. Too much, they sound shouty at times. I dont like the tonality of the 598. The 650 is one of the most natural sounding headphones I've owned, with liquid mids.
> 
> Mids don't have to be so forward like on the 598. Then it becomes grating like too much treble. It also lacks the body and smoothness of the 650.
> 
> 598 makes for a really good soundwhoring can, which is why I rated it so high.


 
 Fair enough 
  
 Happy listening!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, I loved the 598 for gaming, and they are very well balanced. Just felt the mids couldve been a little less forward is all, and have a little more bass. I actually prefer the 558 for that very reason. It sounds more pleasing to me, though not as detailed.


----------



## Evshrug

Sure, during my work break. Basically though, you could just quote my post on the past page, and then copy/paste the "How to..." with URLs conveniently attached, so that the guide doesn't get bloated and inquiring minds can still find what they need. Another benefit, if you just put the link, when I make my setup guide video I can just add it to the post you'd be linking to... so you wouldn't need to update the guide to include it.


----------



## DannyRox23

mad lust envy said:


> I mean, I loved the 598 for gaming, and they are very well balanced. Just felt the mids couldve been a little less forward is all, and have a little more bass. I actually prefer the 558 for that very reason. It sounds more pleasing to me, though not as detailed.


 
 HD 558 are fun headphones


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not on my pc. It's almost impossible to edit the first post with my phone, and I'm sleeping soon. I dont wanna miss that post, lol.


----------



## dakanao

dannyrox23 said:


> HD 558 are fun headphones


 
 I've just tested these out today. Imo they were overly airy and unnatural sounding compared to my AKG K540. Their bass was good for a open headphone though.
  
 Btw Mad Lust Envy, today I tested out the Sennheiser Momentum and Sony MDR-1R. People are praising those headphones on this forum, but to be honest with you, my AKG K540 sound OVERALL better than those 2 headphones. The Momentum had more clarity and detail than my AKG's, but they sounded slightly artificial compared to the K540's. The Sony 1R had a more enjoyable sound because of the more forward midrange, but they were too artificial sounding (more than the Momentums) aswell for my taste and lacked clarity compared to the K540's and Momentums.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, the graphs online paint a different picture. The K540 looks QUITE treble oriented with a steep drop in the middle. Driver matched too. That's the opposite of the Momentum which is very linear with treble roll off, like typical Sennheisers. Not many closed headphones with that articulate sound of the Momentum. I mean, many full sized headphones don't normally sound as good as the Momentum to me. the Momentum is easily the best sounding portable headphone I've heard to date, which is why I can't find myself getting the On Ear version, which just doesn't stack up.

I thought the MDR-1R was good, but not something I'd go for. I preferred the V-moda M100.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, the graphs online paint a different picture. The K540 looks QUITE treble oriented with a steep drop in the middle. Driver matched too. That's the opposite of the Momentum which is very linear with treble roll off, like typical Sennheisers. ot many closed headphones with that articulate sound of the Momentum. I mean, many full sized headphones don't normally sound as good as the Momentum to me.


 
 I found the Momentums treble heavy to be honest, and I found their midrange neutral, only slightly artificial sounding. They sounded very similar to the K540's imo, the K540's only sounded slightly less clear, less detailed and more realistic in tone. The K540's had way more bass though.
  
 I was really surprised aswell, because everybody on here said that the Momentums, Sony 1R's and stuff were really good headphones for their price, but my K540's (80 euro's) just beat them for my genres of music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's quite the opposite of how I hear the momentum and how they're normally tuned. The treble is quite literally a considerable amount of decibels lower than the bass and midrange. perhaps the one you heard was faulty. The momentum FWIR is standard Sennheiser tuned. Warm, bassy, with liquid mids, and smooth, non-fatiguing treble.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> That's quite the opposite of how I hear the momentum and how they're normally tuned. The treble is quite literally a considerable amount of decibels lower than the bass and midrange. perhaps the one you heard was faulty. The momentum FWIR is standard Sennheiser tuned. Warm, bassy, with liquid mids, and smooth, non-fatiguing treble.


 
 Hmm, that's pretty weird then. I'll give them another detailed listen shortly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not bassy as in emphasized, but warm in both bass and mids (quite linear there and well balanced actually).

Man...Ultrasone just GETS bass. Like... it's not necessarily full in sub bass (they're better at mid bass), but omg, they understand PRAT. The bass on the HS-15 is snappy, incredibly well controlled and authoritative. Considering these go for $20 or a little higher on Ebay... it's one hell of a headset for bassy music, just because of how good in controls bass passages. Just like the bigger Pro 900 and Pro 2900 which know how to control bass, even if the Pro 900 is super emphasized.

Other headphone manufacturers should be ashamed. If they can manage to control bass THIS well... man, what a different playing field it'd be. Problem with Ultrasone is the sibilance and thinness up top. It comes off a bit artificial from the three Ultrasones I've heard.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Which Mixamp do you currently use?  Any of you use if for movies?  If so, which one for movies seems to work the best?
 Using DirectTV Coax and Toslink out and PS4 for sources
  
 I am going to buy the REcon3D and 1 of the Mixamps to go head to head.. just need to know which Mixamp 5.8, Pro, etc...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp 5.8 due to practicality and less cable clutter. The other Mixamps either force you to sit close to your consoles, or use really long usb and optical cables.

I use it for movies, assuming the movie has a Dolby track, or if you're using something like the PS3 with the Bitstream mix option which in easy terms changes DTS to Dolby Digital for the Mixamp to decode properly. It works just like it does to games, though many, MANY movies don't really use rear surround speakers well or even often.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp 5.8 due to practicality and less cable clutter. The other Mixamps either force you to sit close to your consoles, or use really long usb and optical cables.
> 
> I use it for movies, assuming the movie has a Dolby track, or if you're using something like the PS3 with the Bitstream mix option which in easy terms changes DTS to Dolby Digital for the Mixamp to decode properly.


 
 But man, I think you really need to try the K540's. They don't have a whole lot of detail, but their naturalness is clearly better than that of the Momentums, Shure SRH-840 and Sony MDR-1R.
  
 They sound horrible at first though, but after 500+ hours, they really have top notch clarity and timbre, especially for the price of €80,- ($100)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

500 hours...

I won't go there, lol.

I'm sure it's probably a good headphone. I had a friend who recommended it to me a few years back.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> 500 hours...
> 
> I won't go there, lol.
> 
> I'm sure it's probably a good headphone. I had a friend who recommended it to me a few years back.


 
 Only thing that's unfortanute is that they suck for competitive gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it on ear? Closed on ears just don't tend to do well.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Where can you buy a Mixamp 5.8?  Do they not manufacture them anymore?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. You can score them on Ebay, various websites here and there, but you may get lucky and find one at the Microsoft online store. That's where they were selling recently.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Is it on ear? Closed on ears just don't tend to do well.


 
 No, it's completely over ear.


----------



## Stillhart

There's a "Shell Shocker" deal at Newegg for the blue DNA On-ear for $79 after rebate.  I tried these at a store and couldn't get over the on-ear feel.  But if you into that kind of thing, seems like a pretty sweet deal.


----------



## Change is Good

Used K612 from Amazon Warehouse Deals for $150...
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DCXZY1W


----------



## avens

dannyrox23 said:


> HD 558 are fun headphones


 
  
 For music and for gaming they are among one of the most boring headphones I've ever heard. Bass and bottom end in general is plainly done badly in those for a Sennheiser product and it's also one of those where they sound too airy, unnatural. Other complaints of all that line are price (the 598 is very expensive for what you get) and reliability issues (they break).
  
 The thing is all that "555 line" is hyped to death because they are internet champs of non into mid or hi-fi people defending their purchase, not realizing it's on the bottom level of the sennheiser products, the ones to avoid, those made in china (the good Senn products are made in Ireland and in Germany) and those that don't get reviewed by technical sites.
  
 Was reading this thread and someone even claimed that with cable and wiring modding they can get to the 600/650 level (mid-fi, a complete tier altogether), which is impossible without changing the drivers, frame design and materials; plus when modding it necessarily means losing in some aspects. It's like comparing a bmw 325 with a m5.
 Furthermore, I was reading headfonia comments on this (yep I know) and someone wrote he preferred the 595 over the 800, which is the usual mistake of preferring what you use over what's being tested for 5 seconds with different music just because of being used to the former.
  
 But yeah, they are pretty good for soundwhoring which is an aspect of headphones for gaming. Wouldn't recommend it to the masses for that use though, as they are really boring, technically flawed and expensive for what you get, but they do work as a one trick pony.
  
 I still want to know if there really is a proper world class headphone for music (above the 600/650 and AKG level) that at the same time is great for fun gaming and for soundwhoring, all that with proper testing, comparison, setup (amp, dolby headphone dac), technical knowledge, good gameplay level and everything. There are lots of greats for both uses or one in particular, but so far none tested that's spectacular for both. I know one day someone will 
 On this the theoretical best among the usual suspects should be the HD800, but I think even that one is not really worth purchasing right now because some aspects should come improved from factory being their current top of the line.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Boring is purely subjective. I find the HD558 to be well balanced with an all rounder type signature. I've heard better, and I've heard worse. For the price, the 558 is a very good headphone that excels in comfort, soundstage, and positional cues. yes, they don't have any exciting bumps in the frequency that give anything an extra amount of energy, but has a generalized sound signature that doesn't do anything particularly wrong.

As for the build quality, I dunno where you're getting this from as the build issues were resolved years ago. Unless you're an absolute animal, I don't see these breaking under normal use whatsoever.

I do agree, that neither the 558 or 598 come anywhere near the level of the HD650. That is utter hyperbole to me.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, did you see any K545s on display last time you were in your local Best Buy?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. Are they supposed to be? The BBs I go to only have the K550 up... ugh.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, I've read ablut some Best Buys having them on display. Thought yours might have had them up. They're on sale, there, for $200 I think. 

If you can find a working pair to test... I advise you do...

Still wish I had a working pair when I bought them...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I went to Best Buy last Sunday, and OMG, they had three DNA Pros up for demos... and all of them were broken in the same spots as mine. Ironically, the multiple DNA On Ears all looked and played perfectly. It just confirmed that the it's a QC issue with the Pros.


----------



## Change is Good

Hopefully they'll address these issues now that you brought it to light on your review. Did you notify them, personally?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In the DNA focus group sub-forum, the review was pasted, as well as extra comments. If they're keeping an eye on the impressions from us who received them, I'm sure they'll do something about it.

One thing i saw is the new line of Beats headphones. One thing that immediately stuck out is that every single model has some aluminum or some alloy-ish parts and extension arms, etc. You can tell they adopted all the feedback they received about their shoddy build quality of the older models. I hope Monster does the same, because the DNA Pro really is a damn good headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

Good to know.

And speaking of issues, I really hope AKG addresses the K545. That was a damn good headphone.... and I only heard one side! lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's crazy. You heard two pairs right?


----------



## Change is Good

Yup... *sigh*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, what's the diff between the K612 pads and the standard K702 pads? I ask because I find the K702 pads to be the more comfortable than the Memory foams of the Annies, due to less heat buildup.

Apparently the more recent comparison between the Annie and K712 are stating that they sound identical (via side by side comparison), leading me to believe that the Annies must have changed to K712 memory foam instead of the older flat ones, which may have given all the differences between them.


----------



## benbenkr

avens said:


> For music and for gaming they are among one of the most boring headphones I've ever heard. Bass and bottom end in general is plainly done badly in those for a Sennheiser product and it's also one of those where they sound too airy, unnatural. Other complaints of all that line are price (the 598 is very expensive for what you get) and reliability issues (they break).
> 
> The thing is all that "555 line" is hyped to death because they are internet champs of non into mid or hi-fi people defending their purchase, not realizing it's on the bottom level of the sennheiser products, the ones to avoid, those made in china (the good Senn products are made in Ireland and in Germany) and those that don't get reviewed by technical sites.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wait hold on... HD558 is expensive for its price? Really? It's $120....
 Please find me a headphone for $120 or less which sounds as good as the HD558 in its own rights.
  
 Sure, a lot of what you say do make sense I do agree to a fair point. Your opinion about a headphone being world class (which I assume you mean HD800 level, which I don't even think is world class personally), well... not everyone has bottomless pockets, okay?


----------



## dakanao

avens said:


> For music and for gaming they are among one of the most boring headphones I've ever heard. Bass and bottom end in general is plainly done badly in those for a Sennheiser product and it's also one of those where *they sound too airy, unnatural*. Other complaints of all that line are price (the 598 is very expensive for what you get) and reliability issues (they break).
> 
> The thing is all that "555 line" is hyped to death because they are internet champs of non into mid or hi-fi people defending their purchase, not realizing it's on the bottom level of the sennheiser products, the ones to avoid, those made in china (the good Senn products are made in Ireland and in Germany) and those that don't get reviewed by technical sites.
> 
> ...


 
 Dude, that's EXACTLY what I thought of them.


----------



## dakanao

benbenkr said:


> Wait hold on... HD558 is expensive for its price? Really? It's $120....
> Please find me a headphone for $120 or less which sounds as good as the HD558 in its own rights.
> 
> Sure, a lot of what you say do make sense I do agree to a fair point. Your opinion about a headphone being world class (which I assume you mean HD800 level, which I don't even think is world class personally), well... not everyone has bottomless pockets, okay?


 
 AKG K540. Sounds better than the HD558 in every way, except soundstage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes I know the guide disappeared. Gotta look for the code that effed it up. Ugh...

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY A PROPER FREAKING SPOILER TAG WOULD CAUSE THE ENTIRE GUIDE TO DISAPPEAR. I MEAN IT'S NOT EVEN IN THE BEGINNING OF THE GUIDE.


FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here, my damn A30 review. I just spent almost a damn hour trying to find what was screwing up my guide. It's fixed. I'm done for today. :rolleyes:




> *Astro A30 (*headset*)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HiCZoK

I have one question. First let me describe my situation:
 I currently own 360 and PC. For pc I have Xonar DG and for 360 I have nothinh. Just a splitter which gives me 1vga cable and 2 rca cables for stereo. I am just using CAL! with either pc front jack or disconnect and contnect into those 2 rca cables via simeple rca to jack, if I want to use headphones on either 360 or pc. Same goes to speakers.
  
 now, that 360 will be exchanged to ps4 soon (maybe) and I've been thinking about setup here. The point is that ps4 will be used via dvi cable on my monitor and as for sound it have optical out. Now how and to what I connect that?
 Do I need asus u7? or some of fiio products? I don't have a big budget sadly and dont mind switching cables (but would love not to but I know its hard without full blown expensive receiver like yamaha).
 Good dolby headphone would be great too. My xonar dg already supports it but it sound muddy... the surrond effects works but it sound like underwater.
 edit: note - I love my cal! headphones and if only headband would be more comfortable 
 So how do I connect ps4 optical, pc, headphones and speakers with possibly least switching (but I can switch some if needed) and dolby headphone ?
 edit2:Maybe mixamp is what I need? it's very difficult to get in Poland tho. Maybe I could order one from usa ? (if its what I need)


----------



## ChrisRPM12

Hi Mad Lust Envy,
  
 I'm actually thinking that if you  if possible, also include (in the future) the sound quality of microphones that can be used for online chat? Personally I think that microphone quality is also as integral as the sound quality in terms of a hardcore gamer. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
  
*Edit: *Rate them out of ten.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im not gonna rate them on a numbered scale anymore, as there is too much room for error. I am rating them. Just havent had much chances since I havent had a headset in awhile other than the A30.

People focus way too much on numbers. To me, there is bad, mediocre, okay, decent, good, great, amazing, and...well perfection.


----------



## TMRaven

Bad being 1-4
 Mediocre being 5
 Okay being 6
 Decent being 7
 Good being 8
 Great being 9
 Amazing being 10
 and Perfection being 11, right?
  
  
 We still got those numbers!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not quite but close.

I don't like numbers because people have blinders on and only seem to look at 8s and 9s as good. This is basically my experiences on evsry review site I've been too. Somehow, anything less than 8 is not good. That to me is just a stupid mindset. Thats why I prefer using the term GOOD, instead of a number that they'll ignore.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> Good to know.
> 
> And speaking of issues, I really hope AKG addresses the K545. That was a damn good headphone.... and I only heard one side! lol


 
  
 I had issues with the 812. Once the headphone itself, then a few weeks afterwards the cable which wasn't properly built. And they ask 200 Dollars for a freaking cable. Sure, such things happen but there's a general lack of consistency in the manufacturing process, especially inside of the earpads whos "bumpers" are uneven and can stick in the hearing area. Unacceptable for this price. Yeah, there were Audezes with dead channels left or right or even both but this is AKG. A K G.
  
 God bless Germany. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 (except Sennheiser earpad/headband prices)


----------



## PurpleAngel

hiczok said:


> I have one question. First let me describe my situation:
> I currently own 360 and PC. For pc I have Xonar DG and for 360 I have nothinh. Just a splitter which gives me 1vga cable and 2 rca cables for stereo. I am just using CAL! with either pc front jack or disconnect and connnect into those 2 rca cables via simeple rca to jack, if I want to use headphones on either 360 or pc. Same goes to speakers.
> 
> now, that 360 will be exchanged to PS4 soon (maybe) and I've been thinking about setup here. The point is that PS4 will be used via DVI cable on my monitor and as for sound it have optical out. Now how and to what I connect that?
> ...


 
  
  
 With gaming consoles (like the PS4) you want to use something like the Astro Mix-amp.
  
 With the Xonar DG.
 Did you disable the motherboard on-board audio? in the BIOS
 Delete the Asus drivers and install the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## HiCZoK

yes. Onboard is disabled. I am using original drivers from asus site. heard about those unified drivers. Is that latest version on the site? Do I need to delete original drivers in a specific way?
 And what settings to use then ? So I am good with xonar dg as for pc sound card and dolby headphone on pc? It failed on me a couple of times but I had to change pci slot and reinstall windows... that card is weird but it works well now and was cheap!
  
 I was worried that mixamp might be the best way for dolby headphone on console because it's expensive to export it from USA/GB to Poland. Even tho its only 130$, it would be like 200$ with shipping and 200$ is my weekly salary in Polish currency 
 So no cheaper (available in Poland maybe) alternatives for DH on console?
  
 What if I wanted to drop DH on console and just wanted to decode optical into analog headphones ?
 What would be recommended DAC/external soundcard then ? Maybe I could get everything in one bag and buy something like x-fi hd or one of external xonar cards for the job? Something that Could be used passively on console (with power from usb on console or outlet, without pc running on) and also be a dac or sound card for pc. u7? omni? x-fi hd? or others?
 Or stay with xonar dg on pc (or something else if its bad) and just get some simple dac for ps4 like d03 which just converts optical ?
 what about turtle beach dss/dss2 ?


----------



## Sam21

Here is my CAL!2 with the boompro : It beats your DNA monster pro!!!


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, what's the diff between the K612 pads and the standard K702 pads? I ask because I find the K702 pads to be the more comfortable than the Memory foams of the Annies, due to less heat buildup.
> 
> Apparently the more recent comparison between the Annie and K712 are stating that they sound identical (via side by side comparison), leading me to believe that the Annies must have changed to K712 memory foam instead of the older flat ones, which may have given all the differences between them.


 
  
 The standard K702 pads and K612 pads are made of the same material, with the K702 pads being thicker and angled. Sonic differences between them are added bass and soundstage (w/ K702 pads) for a trade off in mids in sparkle (w/ K612 pads). The differences aren't dramatic, but noticeable enough to prefer one over the other...
  
 As for recent comparisons between Annie and K712, they may or may not be correct. Remember, chico compared the two and confirmed the pads _were not_ what accounted for the difference in sound between the two. Then again, everyone hears different....
  
 I, myself, did not have the two at the same time. I did, however, compare each to the Mad Dogs (as a reference) when I had them... and did notice a difference in the upper mid range section that chico spoke of. The K712's uper mids were a bit smoother/less grainy than that of the Annie. That was the only difference _I_ noticed, though.... but that was without having them side by side.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Not on my pc. It's almost impossible to edit the first post with my phone, and I'm sleeping soon. I dont wanna miss that post, lol.



I understand about phone edits and needing sleep...



mad lust envy said:


> ...
> I thought the MDR-1R was good, but not something I'd go for. I preferred the V-moda M100.



Wait... You've *heard* the M-100???


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Wait... You've *heard* the M-100???


 
  
 I'm sure he has, they are often up on display in Radio Shacks and Best Buys (FWIR) in larger cities. Its not like that, here in Daytona, though. All you ever see on display is Beats and Skullcandy...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I'm sure he has, they are often up on display in Radio Shacks and Best Buys (FWIR) in larger cities. Its not like that, here in Daytona, though. All you ever see on display is Beats and Skullcandy...


 
  
 Daytooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa![/least imaginative comment ever]


----------



## Change is Good

Someone respond to my classified!!!
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711032/wanted-astro-mixamp-5-8


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Someone respond to my classified!!!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711032/wanted-astro-mixamp-5-8


 
  
 I don't wanna. You can't make me. YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I don't wanna. You can't make me. YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!


 
  
*DO IT!!!*


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> *DO IT!!!*


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


>


 
  
 Last time a frog wouldn't move when told... this happened...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Last time a frog wouldn't move when told... this happened...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  


Spoiler: Neither would this frog.


----------



## Change is Good

Got a Mixamp 5.8 on the way for a reasonable price... can't complain...
  
 Might be selling my Mixamp Pro, soon, if I decide to not give it to my nephew. Might also be selling one of my big boy amps since I'll be using the E12 with the 5.8, now...


----------



## PurpleAngel

hiczok said:


> yes. Onboard is disabled. I am using original drivers from Asus site. heard about those unified drivers. Is that latest version on the site? Do I need to delete original drivers in a specific way?
> 
> What if I wanted to drop DH on console and just wanted to decode optical into analog headphones ?
> What would be recommended DAC/external sound card then ? Maybe I could get everything in one bag and buy something like x-fi hd or one of external xonar cards for the job? Something that Could be used passively on console (with power from USB on console or outlet, without pc running on) and also be a dac or sound card for pc. u7? omni? x-fi hd? or others?
> ...


 
  
 Delete the Asus drivers, might also use CCleaners or Wise Disk cleaner to make sure there is no leftover Asus software.
 Then install the latest version of Unified Xonar Drivers.
 I'm really not sure how much it might help, but it's free to try.
  
 I guess you should be able to find a used Turtle Beach DSS for a low price.
 Otherwise I'm not sure what external sound card (Omni or U7 or other) would work with a gaming console.


----------



## Evshrug

Omni & U7 only accept surround input through USB... so they only work in stereo or "enhanced" stereo for consoles.

For surround with consoles, you have The options listed in my "if I knew then..." thread. For what it's worth, a "like new without original packaging" turtle beach DSS can be bought on eBay USA for $30 (which includes cables).


----------



## HiCZoK

Thanks for help. New xonar drivers seem ok for now. Didn't had enough time to test yet. So, why do I want a dss and not dss2? and that is the only option besides mixamp for true dolby headphone on console? And If I just want normal stereo from optical on console then one of fiio products?
  
 will dss also work on pc? Would it be better than my xonar as a soundcard and dolby headphone device ?


----------



## Evshrug

DSS2 isn't bad, but it uses another surround algorithm besides Dolby Headphone, plus it costs more.
I don't think it would sound any better than your soundcard, audio input has to be Optical


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So my roommate happens to have some Turtle Beach Z11s... I REALLY LIKE THEIR SOUND! Lol. Crisp, dry, and energetic. The soundstage in stereo so far is really good too..

The plastic is cheap as all hell, and they are a bit clampy. The pads neoprene or whatever pads are stiff... but at least its better than pleather.

Who knows, maybe they'll get a review. They certainly sound more engaging than the A30s. In fact these remind me of like a cheap DT990 with less treble spike, and of course, less refinement, but man... they're really good. $36? I'm surprised. Definitely cheap due to the crap plastic used, but they don't look more prone to breaking like their awful Z2.

I MUST try these for DH gaming now. I expected crap, but these may be a new sleeper.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get a Headzone for 550 Dollars or not?
  
 Do you know if it can output the binaural stereo signal through the optical out?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure thats a pass through. 

I spoke too soon about the Z11. One side keeps cutting out. 

When if does work, I noted excellent soundstage and positional cues. Could be worth trying.


----------



## Stillhart

Speaking of the 558's, they're on sale right now for 50% off and free shipping from Sennheiser ($90!).  I posted a link in the Deals forum if anyone is interested.


----------



## E10Turbi

jhex2 said:


> Hey, I managed to get it all working using a couple adapters. You cant plug the mic straight into the chat adapter. You need a PC Headset to Mobile phone adapter. You plug the mic into the mic end of the pc headset adapter, and then I used a 1 female to 2 male 3.5mm adapter to split the headphones, one to DSS, the other to chat adapter. I listed out instructions earlier in the thread, but they are easily missed. Feel free to PM if you have any questions.




I have the tb x41s and finally got tired of the popping enough that I went out and purchased the pc360. Right now, I get audio through the secondary 3.5mm jack of my x41 transmitter and chat via kinect. I'd rather incorporate the pc360 mic if possible on my xbox one. How does your wiring setup work if the chat adapter sends both game and chat audio to the headset while receiving a secondary source of game audio via your DSS? Do you mute game sound and only bring chat audio up via the chat adapter? Otherwise the headset would be receiving both a surround and stereo game audio feed that it then combines?


----------



## JHex2

e10turbi said:


> I have the tb x41s and finally got tired of the popping enough that I went out and purchased the pc360. Right now, I get audio through the secondary 3.5mm jack of my x41 transmitter and chat via kinect. I'd rather incorporate the pc360 mic if possible on my xbox one. How does your wiring setup work if the chat adapter sends both game and chat audio to the headset while receiving a secondary source of game audio via your DSS? Do you mute game sound and only bring chat audio up via the chat adapter? Otherwise the headset would be receiving both a surround and stereo game audio feed that it then combines?


 
 You are correct, I mute the game audio through the headset adapter and click the chat audio button until that's the only thing coming through it. Game audio through the DSS, Chat audio through the chat adapter.


----------



## Stillhart

jhex2 said:


> You are correct, I mute the game audio through the headset adapter and click the chat audio button until that's the only thing coming through it. Game audio through the DSS, Chat audio through the chat adapter.


 
 That's weird.  I get game and chat audio through my Recon, with only my mic going into the chat adapter.  I don't see any reason why you need to have the headphone split and going to both.
  
 Then again, I bet if I did that I could get better game/chat balance than I do currently...


----------



## JHex2

stillhart said:


> That's weird.  I get game and chat audio through my Recon, with only my mic going into the chat adapter.  I don't see any reason why you need to have the headphone split and going to both.
> 
> Then again, I bet if I did that I could get better game/chat balance than I do currently...


 
  
 My original plan was that I would plug the modmic straight into the chat adapter, but the chat adapter thought the modmic was a full headset, and I wasnt getting chat audio through the headphones, so I needed to split it. The mic doesnt run through the DSS because the DSS only uses a USB chat so that might be the difference.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sennheiser HD 558 for $89
  
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-headphones-high-end-hd-558
  
CODE: hrqdogorm


----------



## E10Turbi

jhex2 said:


> You are correct, I mute the game audio through the headset adapter and click the chat audio button until that's the only thing coming through it. Game audio through the DSS, Chat audio through the chat adapter.




Does anyone know if the adapter supplied with the console can be rewired to perform this same function? It would be nice if I didn't have to buy the difficult-to-find adapter. I currently have it spliced into my old x41 chat cable. I suspect if I just wire up a 3.5mm female connector to the original adapter that I won't be able to mute/turn off the game audio while retaining the chat feed live.


----------



## Stillhart

e10turbi said:


> Does anyone know if the adapter supplied with the console can be rewired to perform this same function? It would be nice if I didn't have to buy the difficult-to-find adapter. I currently have it spliced into my old x41 chat cable. I suspect if I just wire up a 3.5mm female connector to the original adapter that I won't be able to mute/turn off the game audio while retaining the chat feed live.


 
 The chat adapter you can buy comes with an extra button that lets you mute the game sounds.  The old one doesn't, so I suspect you're correct in that you won't be able to duplicate that functionality.


----------



## Evshrug

jhex2 said:


> My original plan was that I would plug the modmic straight into the chat adapter, but the chat adapter thought the modmic was a full headset, and I wasnt getting chat audio through the headphones, so I needed to split it. The mic doesnt run through the DSS because the DSS only uses a USB chat so that might be the difference.




There might be a difference between how the XBO and the XB360 work... I put my settings to play chat audio through the "speakers" in voice settings, and that works whether I'm using a mic + 2.5mm adapter or using a phone headset terminated in a 2.5mm plug.


----------



## E10Turbi

evshrug said:


> There might be a difference between how the XBO and the XB360 work... I put my settings to play chat audio through the "speakers" in voice settings, and that works whether I'm using a mic + 2.5mm adapter or using a phone headset terminated in a 2.5mm plug.




I think the location at which the chat and game audio mixing is happening is different for the two systems. With the 360 they at least give you the option of changing chat volume at the os level. I believe the latest xbone update allows you to do this when using kinect chat but doesn't help those trying to mod the original adapter.

I think the xbone controller receives 2 discrete audio streams - game and chat - and the mixing function happens with the adapter. Without the latest adapter it outputs both game and chat audio pre-mixed (when using the system supplied adapter) in the same output audio stream. With legacy headsets they would receive just the chat stream from the controllers and the mixing would happen at the headset or mixamp level depending on whether you've got tb or astro.

So how to trick the system supplied adapter to strip out game audio while still passing through the chat feed? May not be possible as the circuitry probably isn't setup to suppress the game feed  I'm slowly resigning myself to buying the new adapter.

Edit: words


----------



## calpis

@MLE 
 I expect nothing less in the HS15 review than you using Gamepro's review scale.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> @MLE
> I expect nothing less in the HS15 review than you using Gamepro's review scale.




Holy cow, I remember opening those old Gamepro mags at the supermarket and reading through in one sitting. That review scale brings back so many memories. Even back then, their 3.5 was good to me. I think the .5s had thumbs up added to the boxes. Hahaha. So a 1.5 was kinda weird.

Back then, it was all about Gamepro, and EGM. Then I subscribed to the Dreamcast magazine. I was such a Sega fanboy.


----------



## Stillhart

Well my X1's FINALLY came in!  Here are my first impressions; a comparison between the Philips Fidelio X1 and the AKG Q701 from a neophyte.  Keep in mind that I've been using the Q701 exclusively for a month now.
  
 The first thing I tried was some music, since I have been really focused on that with my Q701's lately.  I know it's probably just that I'm super used to the Q701 now, but the bass seems so... loose and floppy. For certain music, it's wonderful. For other music, it gets in the way of the mids. Also the highs just don't have that sparkle that they do on the Q.
  
 I do agree though that they're great for gaming. Holy cow! Not quite as spacious as the Q, not quite as detailed, but very good directionality and, because of all that bass, I really feel more immersed. It *is* a lot more fun.  I know what MLE meant now.  It's not that same sense of "god mode" that the Q's give, but it's more than good enough.  It certainly beats the pants off the PLYR1.
  
 Also, since the X1 is easier to drive, I don't feel like I need an amp on the Recon. The Q just doesn't quite get loud enough and I think would really benefit from them.  I was getting close to pulling the trigger on one.  Now, I'm thinking maybe not.
  
 Man is it hard to decide between these two!  I think I may end up keeping both.  I'd use the X1 for gaming since it's just easier with the Boom-pro and the lack of amping.  Also, since I'm not exactly a competitive player, I don't need the full god-mode treatment.  I'll give up a little detail for a lot of fun, no problem!  I'd use the Q701 for music and maybe get a DAC/Amp combo that suits them - brings out the bass a little more and tones down the sparkle JUST a tad.
  
 Do they make a happy medium?  Is there something out there that will give me more bass than the Q701 but with that same level of control?  Will it still have those clear mids and sparkling highs without being too overboard on the sparkle?  I suspect this is the reason people spend the big bucks on headphones.  What have I gotten myself into?!?  lol


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Well my X1's FINALLY came in!  Here are my first impressions; a comparison between the Philips Fidelio X1 and the AKG Q701 from a neophyte.  Keep in mind that I've been using the Q701 exclusively for a month now.
> 
> The first thing I tried was some music, since I have been really focused on that with my Q701's lately.  I know it's probably just that I'm super used to the Q701 now, but the bass seems so... loose and floppy. For cetain music, it's wonderful. For other music, it gets in the way of the mids. Also the highs just don't have that sparkle that they do on the Q.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Some K712/Annie pads will help on that matter for the Q701...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Some K712/Annie pads will help on that matter for the Q701...


 
  
 Are they really $30 each?  That's a pricey investment... but some googling says they do exactly what I was looking for.  I'll have to sleep on that one...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote:


stillhart said:


> Are they really $30 each?  That's a pricey investment... but some googling says they do exactly what I was looking for.  I'll have to sleep on that one...


 
  
 I think so. It's been a while since I bought em when I had the Q701... so not really sure...
  
 Read up on Mad's Q701 review and you will see that it turns your Q701 into an Annie...
  
 This review also confirms it...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/655082/akg-q701-vs-akg-k702-65th-anniversary-comparison-review


----------



## CheesyHoDogPuff

Hey, looking for beginner headphones primarily for gaming, however I will also listen to some music with it (Mostly Alt. Rock, Classic Rock, French House, and HIp Hop).I was looking at the Sennheiser HD 419 or 429. Would either of these be good for gaming? Remember music is only a secondary priority.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I think so. It's been a while since I bought em when I had the Q701... so not really sure...
> 
> Read up on Mad's Q701 review and you will see that it turns your Q701 into an Annie...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks, that was a fantastic read.  It does sound like these will shift the Q slightly in the direction I want.  I am really tempted.
  
 Do you know, by chance, how the Annie's sound with the "bass mod" where you take off the sticker thingy?  (Linky)
  
 It's funny... now that I have like two of these cans to compare, I can really start to get a better idea of what all these reviews and stuff are talking about.   Going back and rereading the X1 and Q701 reviews, I totally GET them now.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Thanks, that was a fantastic read.  It does sound like these will shift the Q slightly in the direction I want.  I am really tempted.
> 
> *Do you know, by chance, how the Annie's sound with the "bass mod" where you take off the sticker thingy?*  (Linky)
> 
> It's funny... now that I have like two of these cans to compare, I can really start to get a better idea of what all these reviews and stuff are talking about.   Going back and rereading the X1 and Q701 reviews, I totally GET them now.


 
  
 Nah, never tried it... sorry...


----------



## Stillhart

e10turbi said:


> I think the location at which the chat and game audio mixing is happening is different for the two systems. With the 360 they at least give you the option of changing chat volume at the os level. I believe the latest xbone update allows you to do this when using kinect chat but doesn't help those trying to mod the original adapter.
> 
> I think the xbone controller receives 2 discrete audio streams - game and chat - and the mixing function happens with the adapter. Without the latest adapter it outputs both game and chat audio pre-mixed (when using the system supplied adapter) in the same output audio stream. With legacy headsets they would receive just the chat stream from the controllers and the mixing would happen at the headset or mixamp level depending on whether you've got tb or astro.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Okay so FYI, I tried my Xbone with the X1 and the Boom-pro tonight and as soon as I got into a party, I realized I couldn't hear my chat.  The mic worked, but sound didn't.  When I unplugged from my chat adapter, chat worked but mic didn't.
  
 The only difference from before is that this time I had the Boom-pro plugged into my X1.  Before, I had it zip tied to my Q701 cable but not plugged in to any headphones.
  
 Theory:  It auto-detects if you have headphones plugged into the chat adaptor and always puts chat through the controller if detected.  There is no option to override, as far as I can tell.  This puts a MAJOR damper on my plans to keep the X1.
  
 EDIT - It also makes the Boom-pro a distinct disadavantage with the Xbone if you plan on using surround.  What, MS?


----------



## tmaxx123

Hey everyone, I haven't been on here in awhile, but I have been trying to catch up with this fast moving thread! 
 I am still trying to get my hands on the ATH-AG1 to compare with my MMX-300's, but can't seem to find a seller that ships to the US. 
  
 According the the Audio Technica twitter they should be shipping to the US in "early spring". We will see how that pans out.
  
 Hope all is well with everyone!


----------



## Evshrug

tmaxx123 said:


> Hey everyone, I haven't been on here in awhile, but I have been trying to catch up with this fast moving thread!
> I am still trying to get my hands on the ATH-AG1 to compare with my MMX-300's, but can't seem to find a seller that ships to the US.
> 
> According the the Audio Technica twitter they should be shipping to the US in "early spring". We will see how that pans out.
> ...



Welcome back, good to see you again. Did you see, Nameless also got a pair of MMX-300? He likes 'em too.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Thanks, that was a fantastic read.  It does sound like these will shift the Q slightly in the direction I want.  I am really tempted.
> 
> Do you know, by chance, how the Annie's sound with the "bass mod" where you take off the sticker thingy?  (Linky)
> 
> It's funny... now that I have like two of these cans to compare, I can really start to get a better idea of what all these reviews and stuff are talking about.   Going back and rereading the X1 and Q701 reviews, I totally GET them now.




So, not exactly, but pads PLUS bass "mod" is kinda like 2 steps in the same direction. Maybe you SHOULD try it with the Q701's, especially since you want more bass & it seems to be pretty easily reversible. I've never gotten around to it.


----------



## rc10mike

So has anyone tried the ATH-ADG1 yet...


----------



## B9Scrambler

This is an awesome thread. I haven't gone through all 1,400+ pages yet, but I'm working on it. Has anyone happened to cover the Plantronics Rig?
  


 Picked them up earlier today. So far they seem pretty solid for ~70 CAD, especially with the included amp. Bassy, but not overwhelming. Decent treble, somewhat recessed mids. Warm sounding. Really light and comfy. Definitely happy with them atm.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Holy cow, I remember opening those old Gamepro mags at the supermarket and reading through in one sitting. That review scale brings back so many memories. Even back then, their 3.5 was good to me. I think the .5s had thumbs up added to the boxes. Hahaha. So a 1.5 was kinda weird.
> 
> Back then, it was all about Gamepro, and EGM. Then I subscribed to the Dreamcast magazine. I was such a Sega fanboy.




That Official Dreamcast Mag covering Dead or Alive was HOTTT... Saw it and immediately had to hide it from my mother, lol


----------



## JohnClosed

Sennheiser hd 558 , hd 598 , pc 360 or the ATH D700 for the new Counter Strike GO, seems the razer and steelseries are crap, i would like to buy one of this products, but some people said me he pc 360 are better than the 558 and some just said the 555=pc360! the 598 are great but just a bit expensive for my taste


----------



## zx6guy

Long time no post here.  
  
 About an hour ago I unpacked my new PC360s and I would describe them as disappointing.  I knew after reading this guide that I’d be taking a little bit of step back but I didn’t realize how much it would actually be.  There is much less “sparklyness” and soundstage compared to my AD700s.  Using the PC360s feels like a headcold. 

 Am I missing something?  Is there a break in period I don’t know about?  I bought these on Amazon, will they take them back?  I use them with a Mixamp.
  
 Thanks ahead of time for all your help/advice and thanks to Mad Lust for keeping this guide going.


----------



## kman1211

zx6guy said:


> Long time no post here.
> 
> About an hour ago I unpacked my new PC360s and I would describe them as disappointing.  I knew after reading this guide that I’d be taking a little bit of step back but I didn’t realize how much it would actually be.  There is much less “sparklyness” and soundstage compared to my AD700s.  Using the PC360s feels like a headcold.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can return headphones to amazon without issue. If I read right about the PC360 they sound like the 5x5/5x8 family which are boring and dull headphones, they improve with break-in but they are still dull.


----------



## TiTaN

kman1211 said:


> You can return headphones to amazon without issue. If I read right about the PC360 they sound like the 5x5/5x8 family which are boring and dull headphones, they improve with break-in but they are still dull.




Having owned the hd595, hd598 and pc360, the first two are great and the pc360 were terrible. I still have my ad700 which I prefer to any other open gaming headphones I've tried, other than the x1 and ma900, both of which way more expensive


----------



## kman1211

titan said:


> Having owned the hd595, hd598 and pc360, the first two are great and the pc360 were terrible. I still have my ad700 which I prefer to any other open gaming headphones I've tried, other than the x1 and ma900, both of which way more expensive


 


 I believe the PC360 has the same drivers as the HD 598 but different pads and housing can alter the sound quite a bit. I really need to listen to the AD700 and the X1 sometime. I had the MA900 but gave it away as it sounded inferior in terms of gaming, music listening, and refinement to my K612 on my system and the sound wasn't different enough to compliment the K612 for me.


----------



## Stillhart

So I just did the bass port mod on the Q701 and I'm quite pleased with the results.
  
 I'm going to do some more back to back testing tonight with gaming and see how it goes.  I'm bummed that I can't use the Boom-pro with my Xbone, but I did order some of those Neewer clip-on mics that just came in today, so I'll see how that works.
  
 If the Q701 got a nice bump in the Fun category while still retaining its god mode in the Competitive category, I think they're a keeper.


----------



## zx6guy

Well after another hour of the Pepsi challenge the PC360s are going back.  I was really looking forward to a nice competitive headset. 

 @Stillheart Have you tried a modmic?  Its way better than any clip on mic I've had, as long as you’re ok gluing a magnet to your phones. 
  
 Thanks again everyone.


----------



## AxelCloris

Dagnabbit, V-Moda. Are you gonna make me buy a new portable?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/711801/v-moda-xs-a-first-look-at-the-new-v-moda-xs-with-val-kolton-head-fi-tv


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Dagnabbit, V-Moda. Are you gonna make me buy a new portable?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711801/v-moda-xs-a-first-look-at-the-new-v-moda-xs-with-val-kolton-head-fi-tv


 
  
 Saw this coming a mile away after the M80 was discontinued....


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Saw this coming a mile away after the M80 was discontinued....


 
  
 Yeah, I knew something was going to be replacing them. But the Xs sounds pretty darned sweet. And heck, for the price I paid for the M-80 I could keep both around. The M-80 still makes an amazing office headphone for me.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, I knew something was going to be replacing them. But the Xs sounds pretty darned sweet. And heck, for the price I paid for the M-80 I could keep both around. The M-80 still makes an amazing office headphone for me.


 
  
 Enhanced M-80 sound? Larger soundstage? More comfortable? Better Isolation? These M500s might be in trouble... 
  
 So much for being content...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People complaining about PC360? Have you HEARD Sennheiser products? They are almost always very linear, warm, and non-fatiguing. They're not going to scream excitement. If you prefer the AD700, it's because you pefer a strong treble emphasis. They're complete opposites of one another. If you compare directly, of course the Senns are going to sound dull. Same way as any warm, smooth headphone will sound dull when you're used to bright headphones.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> People complaining about PC360? Have you HEARD Sennheiser products? They are almost always very linear, warm, and non-fatiguing. They're not going to scream excitement. If you prefer the AD700, it's because you pefer a strong treble emphasis. They're complete opposites of one another. If you compare directly, of course the Senns are going to sound dull. Same way as any warm, smooth headphone will sound dull when you're used to bright headphones.


 
  
 Honestly I just find Sennheisers in general boring regardless of them being dark or bright. Some reason they just fail to engage me, to me they lack what I call the euphonic factor. I personally can't agree with the notion that any smooth and warm headphone will sound dull if one is used to bright headphones because that hasn't been my personal experience.


----------



## Change is Good

I finally opened my Twitch account, guys! (Late, I know)


----------



## tmaxx123

evshrug said:


> Welcome back, good to see you again. Did you see, Nameless also got a pair of MMX-300? He likes 'em too.


 
 Yep, the sound they deliver is second to none as far as i have experienced. I have been checking online every day for the Audio technica ATH-AG1 or ADG1. I hear they are the A900x's with a mic?


----------



## dakanao

Well, my K540's broke when I wanted to listen to music after breakfast...
  
 That REALLY f-ing blows...
  
 But I have one headphone that I'm interested in, the Sony MDR-1R MK2. It's said to be like the 1R, only more refined and with better and more bass and sub bass.


----------



## PurpleAngel

tmaxx123 said:


> Yep, the sound they deliver is second to none as far as i have experienced. I have been checking online every day for the Audio technica ATH-AG1 or ADG1. I hear they are the A900x's with a mic?


 
  
 Never mind.


----------



## kcazbarach

knightwolf15 said:


> So pro gamers use and push gaming headsets cause of endorsements I'm guessing?


 

 well back in the day of h2, it seemed like nearly everybody would be using the ad700s.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hi, I've Googled lots of different phrases looking for info but with no luck. With the phrases I've tried, this thread keeps popping up. Being this thread is now pretty vast I'd rather not read the entire thing and someone may have some info not contained in this thread.
  
 I currently own a set of PX 21's (yeah I know they're not great, but it was my first headset and I've learned a lot since buying them), a set of AKG K240 mkii's, a DSS2 decoder and a Yamaha RX V375.
  
 I was wondering if anyone knows of any products similar to a DSS2 or Mixamp pro planned for the future that will support DTS decoding. While my AV receiver has Silent Cinema, I'd require either a USB or stereo cable extension to simultaneously plug into the receiver and my PS3/4. That would be a bit of a pain having the cable going across as I have the consoles placed low on the right and the receiver high up on the left. Also if I wanted to use my AKGs from my bed, it's a bit of a stretch for the cable.
  
 Any info on upcoming processors similar the DSS2 or Mixamp pro would be interesting to me anyway (like for example if they were to support lossless formats). If anyone knows anything, I'd love to hear it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you need DTS for Blurays...you could just set the ps3 and ps4 to bitstream mix...it will basically convert DTS to Dolby.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Will that just not come out as stereo? Being I wont be using the AV receiver, the DSS2 will be my only option. I think it only supports Dolby otherwise it just does stereo.
  
 Edit: Am I just being dense? Plus I should have noted that my primary concern is games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not understanding why you need dts for games, when Dolby Digital is embedded in all games.

And no, bitstream mix changes the dts signal tk dolby digital, which the Mixamp devices convert to proper vurtual surround. Of course, many movies don't do much surround cues to begin with so the effect is muuuuch more noticeable for games.


----------



## dakanao

I'm listening to a 18 euro Philips SHE3590 in-ear earphones ($10 in the US) with the 16Khz boosted.
  
 I swear, it sounds ALMOST as good as my K540's. They only have more recessed vocals, and a more boxed in sound and less detail, but the clarity is nearly the same.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Sorry, didn't get a notification that you'd replied for some reason.
  
 I didn't realise that all games had Dolby or that there was a bitstream mix option (I generally watch DVD's on my PC and only own a couple of Blurays).
  
 Maybe I should have researched more, it was just that Fifa 14 and BF4 both had the DTS logo quite prominently displayed so I thought DTS may be more common in the future. I therefore thought it might be worth looking into a decoder which will do both Dolby and DTS.
  
 BTW I was just checking out your Youtube channel


----------



## zx6guy

mad lust envy said:


> People complaining about PC360? Have you HEARD Sennheiser products? They are almost always very linear, warm, and non-fatiguing. They're not going to scream excitement. If you prefer the AD700, it's because you pefer a strong treble emphasis. They're complete opposites of one another. If you compare directly, of course the Senns are going to sound dull. Same way as any warm, smooth headphone will sound dull when you're used to bright headphones.


 
  

 I wasn’t complaining, I was asking for advice with a disappointing purchase.  And no I haven’t heard a Sennheiser product which is of course why I came to this guide.
  
 I think everything said in each review is 100% correct.  Where I now differ is in the competitive rating of the PC360.


----------



## martin vegas

zx6guy said:


> I wasn’t complaining, I was asking for advice with a disappointing purchase.  And no I haven’t heard a Sennheiser product which is of course why I came to this guide.
> 
> I think everything said in each review is 100% correct.  Where I now differ is in the competitive rating of the PC360.


 

 Try using a good quality dac!


----------



## Stillhart

Just a quick update:  The Q701 with the bass port mod is noticeably better in the bass (and thus "Fun") department.  I obviously can't do a side-by-side comparison, but I don't feel like I lost any SQ, I've just simply gotten a small boost to the bass.  Small, but enough to not make it feel like it has "no" bass.  I'm very happy with them.
  
 In fact, I'd be curious what MLE thinks of the modded Q's.  I could see them moving onto the top all-arounders list with just this mod.  Aside from the weird bumps on the headband (which you do get used to), I find them to be more comfortable than the X1 too.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Just curious, in relation to my post on the previous page, has anyone heard anything of any virtual surround processors coming in the future?
  
 Being the new consoles are out, I'd expect there to be something in the works. I ask because I'm curious to try something other than the DSS2 but don't want to buy and then discover there's something new about to come out which is better.


----------



## Murder Mike

In the wake of the recent unfavorable talk of the PC360s, my friend got a pair a few weeks ago and he loves them. It's safe to say he hasn't been spoiled by superior sounding headphones. He says the bass is adequate and not overbearing and the depth of the sound is far greater than what he is used to. He's hearing more details in his music than before and can pin-point very well. He's running them straight out of his motherboard chipset (MSI Z87 G45 Gaming with SBX Pro Studio).


----------



## GorillaSceptre

stillhart said:


> Just a quick update:  The Q701 with the bass port mod is noticeably better in the bass (and thus "Fun") department.  I obviously can't do a side-by-side comparison, but I don't feel like I lost any SQ, I've just simply gotten a small boost to the bass.  Small, but enough to not make it feel like it has "no" bass.  I'm very happy with them.
> 
> In fact, I'd be curious what MLE thinks of the modded Q's.  I could see them moving onto the top all-arounders list with just this mod.  Aside from the weird bumps on the headband (which you do get used to), I find them to be more comfortable than the X1 too.


 
 Agree 100%, i tried a ton of headphone's, the MODDED q701 is unbeatable for it's price.


----------



## Change is Good

Mr modded K612 might have something to say about that 

(Though I haven't done it on mine)


----------



## GorillaSceptre

change is good said:


> Mr modded K612 might have something to say about that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He just might
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Why don't you try it? if it's like the Q's then it's reversible. are the stock K612 bass light?


----------



## Change is Good

gorillasceptre said:


> He just might
> 
> Why don't you try it? if it's like the Q's then it's reversible. are the stock K612 bass light?




Not at all... at least with Q701 pads on. Even in stock form I think it has slightly more bass than the Qs.


----------



## GorillaSceptre

change is good said:


> Not at all... at least with Q701 pads on. Even in stock form I think it has slightly more bass than the Qs.


 
 Give the Mod a go, it's so easy it will take 2 minutes, if the bass improves on them then they will be a steal at their price.


----------



## Change is Good

Bass is already improved enough with just some K702 pads on. I'm good


----------



## GorillaSceptre

change is good said:


> Bass is already improved enough with just some K702 pads on. I'm good


 
 It seem's the biggest difference in the AKG lineup is the pad's


----------



## kman1211

gorillasceptre said:


> It seem's the biggest difference in the AKG lineup is the pad's


 

 Well with the K7xx series it is. The K601 and K612 are noticeably different sounding headphones than the Q701, etc. regardless of pads. Similar yes, but not the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Started writing in the HS-15 review...


----------



## SonnyA85

I have the wireless 5.8 Mixamp.
  
 I also have Panasonic HTF 600, Sennheiser 595, Sennheiser HD25-1 II.
  
 Out of all three which would be the best for gaming and in what order?
  
 Also is there anything else sub £150 I should look at?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the 595.


----------



## AxelCloris

sonnya85 said:


> I have the wireless 5.8 Mixamp.
> 
> I also have Panasonic HTF 600, Sennheiser 595, Sennheiser HD25-1 II.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Having heard all three personally, and owned two of them, the 595 hands down. Then I personally preferred the sound of the HD25 over the HTF 600. The Panasonic never wow'd me when I was listening to it.


----------



## ajamils

Does anyone has a suggestion between Steelseries Wireless H and Astro A50? I've been using DT990 + Modmic + Mixamp setup for over a year but now getting tired of all the wires running around everywhere and I am looking for a wireless solution for my console gaming (Ps3, PS4, Xbox 1)


----------



## conquerator2

ajamils said:


> Does anyone has a suggestion between Steelseries Wireless H and Astro A50? I've been using DT990 + Modmic + Mixamp setup for over a year but now getting tired of all the wires running around everywhere and I am looking for a wireless solution for my console gaming (Ps3, PS4, Xbox 1)


 
 Steelseries headphones > Astro headphones IMO.


----------



## martin vegas

Got myself a ps4 today with infamous second son..everything works with my dac . i never had to change one setting!


----------



## Change is Good

2011 mixamp and 2012 M-stage w/USB just went live in the classifieds...


----------



## chicolom

Dead Space is FREE on PC via Origin right now.
  
 Awesome game if you've never played it.
  
 https://www.origin.com/en-us/store/buy/dead-space-ANW.html


----------



## JayL

e10turbi said:


> I think the location at which the chat and game audio mixing is happening is different for the two systems. With the 360 they at least give you the option of changing chat volume at the os level. I believe the latest xbone update allows you to do this when using kinect chat but doesn't help those trying to mod the original adapter.
> 
> I think the xbone controller receives 2 discrete audio streams - game and chat - and the mixing function happens with the adapter. Without the latest adapter it outputs both game and chat audio pre-mixed (when using the system supplied adapter) in the same output audio stream. With legacy headsets they would receive just the chat stream from the controllers and the mixing would happen at the headset or mixamp level depending on whether you've got tb or astro.
> 
> ...


 
 I am using the xbone chat adapter  and turn the game volume all the way down, works great since it has seperate volume controls for game and chat


----------



## Change is Good

And we're live folks!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> And we're live folks!



On ps4/twitch?




martin vegas said:


> Got myself a ps4 today with infamous second son..everything works with my dac . i never had to change one setting!



Is surround working? Which DAC?




napalmhardcore said:


> ... has anyone heard anything of any virtual surround processors coming in the future?



Maybe, but I haven't heard of any new processors... except maybe games supporting TrueAudio built-in to the PS4 itself, and the add-on prototype for a Sony occulus-type VR headset called the Morpheus with head-tracking 3D video and audio. Yes, 3D head-tracking audio, for a console.

Just a prototype right now, though.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> On ps4/twitch?


 
  
 Join ussssss...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Join ussssss...



You know I can't resist the sound of a gas leak...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I heard about the PS4 VR solution. When I first heard about it my gut told me that a) it will be very expensive, considering how their personal viewer was for what it is and b) I worry they may try to rush it to market to beat the competition without resolving some of the problems that face VR such as latency.
  
 I really don't know what to think about Facebook buying Oculus. I've been waiting on that for a long time so I'm hoping this wont affect it in a negative way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm skeptical of the Sony VR the same way I was skeptical of 3D support on the PS3. 3D made games look and run horribly. Literally, their best games with 3D look like they ran at 480p at 24fps. It was atrocious to watch.

I dunno how these Vr headsets do their magic, but if it splits the power of the PS4 to run two screens at once or whatever, you can expect 1080p/60fps games to run at probably 720p/30fps.

VR sounds ideal for the PC market, where power is up to the user...


----------



## laon

napalmhardcore said:


> I heard about the PS4 VR solution. When I first heard about it my gut told me that a) it will be very expensive, considering how their personal viewer was for what it is and b) I worry they may try to rush it to market to beat the competition without resolving some of the problems that face VR such as latency.
> 
> I really don't know what to think about Facebook buying Oculus. I've been waiting on that for a long time so I'm hoping this wont affect it in a negative way.


 

 1) Yoshida already said that it would be inline with their gaming hardware's price because they could make money from other venture with Morpheus unlike the premium HMZ line, I'll look for the interview if I care enough.
 2) Oculus is not compatible with PS4 nor do they plan to.
  
  
  
@Mad Lust Envy 
 "VR sounds ideal for the PC market, where power is up to the user..."
 If VR adoption is dictated by power then it'll also be doomed to very niche portion of PC market, at least for several years.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I'll be keeping on eye on it, but I share your cynicism Mad Lust Envy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

laon said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> "VR sounds ideal for the PC market, where power is up to the user..."
> If VR adoption is dictated by power then it'll also be doomed to very niche portion of PC market, at least for several years.




Well, you have to look at it like 3D. It will take some processing power from the system, meaning it will effectively lower the visual fidelity compared to when a game is running normally.

If you ever tried and compared games on PS3 with 3D support, you'd see the huge performance hit just to enable 3D. The expectations are realistic. If the VR headset uses processing power, companies will have to cut the graphic fidelity, making games run at lower resolutions and framerates, less detail, etc. unless it's really simple PSN games or whatnot that don't push the PS4 anywhere near it's potential.

It's basically like when you play games split screen. Visual fidelity is always cut down.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

laon said:


> "VR sounds ideal for the PC market, where power is up to the user..."
> If VR adoption is dictated by power then it'll also be doomed to very niche portion of PC market, at least for several years.


 
 In a way that is a good thing as it will give the technology and techniques for implementing it time to mature. If it is presented to a wide audience but not quite there yet it will be another case of people writing it off as a gimmick as has happened before. Some people still site Virtual Boy as a reason why they aren't interested in VR and why they think it will fail.


----------



## laon

mad lust envy said:


> Well, you have to look at it like 3D. It will take some processing power from the system, meaning it will effectively lower the visual fidelity compared to when a game is running normally.
> 
> If you ever tried and compared games on PS3 with 3D support, you'd see the huge performance hit just to enable 3D. The expectations are realistic. If the VR headset uses processing power, companies will have to cut the graphic fidelity, making games run at lower resolutions and framerates, less detail, etc. unless it's really simple PSN games or whatnot that don't push the PS4 anywhere near it's potential.


 

 Lowering visual fidelity isn't exclusive to PC... Trine 2 is full 60 FPS 3D 720p (internally run at 1080p but hindered by HDMI spec reportedly) on PS4, and I don't know why you keep bringing PS3 when the device isn't even going to support it.
  
 If they could put something as good as TLoU on VR with good FPS I think it would be enough to convince people, from valve experiment FPS is actually way more important to achieve presence.
  
 And anyway, Sony already has Japan locked down http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-03-26/sony-head-mounted-device-allows-users-to-step-inside-an-anime


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm using the PS3 as an example of what technologies (3D in that case) that grab resources from the processors tend to do to games.

Trine is a PSN game, hardly tasking of the system. Try doing 3D support on a full fledged game, and see just how much it's gonna reduce performance. I'm willing to make a bet that it's gonna be considerably larger than Trine 2.

I assume virtual reality will cause the PS4 to run 2 screens, kind of like 3D is running two separate images. So a 1080p/60 game, will at best run at 720p/60, and more likely, 720p/30.

The PS4 already struggles providing 1080p/60 on last gen games (Tomb Raider dips below 60fps on a consistent basis), as does games like Killzone: SF. It's running newer games like Infamous 2 at 30-40fps on average... which does not bode well for 3D/VR support for later titles.

I love the PS4, but it's showing it's limitations, and these new gimmicks will only hamper it's performance even more. We'll most likely start to run last gen resolutions.


----------



## laon

Uh, no one argue that 3D would be taxing but know that 1080p is not full 1920x1080 per eye but 960x1080 so it's not exactly 2-3 times more taxing to render, and there's also a lot of tech that could be used to "trick" user like eye tracking. 
  
 And again, the VR game does not have to ultra photo realistic looking, even something like the Media Molecule's PS4 game could blow people's mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I said, I'm skeptical. If Sony pulls this off well, then it may be good, but the past has shown me that they hype up peripherals, only to give us half assed products like the Eye, and the Move. I won't ever forget the horrible 3D they slapped on to a lot of games which made them look worse, every time. The only game that I remember looking just fine in 3D was Rocketbirds or whatever, which they managed to keep at the same framerate and apparent resolution. That game was incredibly simple though.


----------



## laon

Not sure if those are all Sony first party game... But yes, be skeptical is the right thing to do, they don't owe us anything and must show the device's worth by its own merit.
  
 I'm on the optimist side seeing game like KZSF and Infamous SS so early in this generation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Games, I have high hopes for, that I never fear for when it comes to Sony consoles. They always have amazing first party titles.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I've not done research on the Morpheus, but if they are following the same route as Oculus, it would be a 1080p screen with each perspective rendered on either half of the screen and that focused with optics towards the eye. So in terms of resolution and frames per second it shouldn't make a difference.
  
 What I don't know is how intensive the calculations are for rendering the scene twice are (thus having to calculate differences in lighting between the position of each eye, rendering objects twice from different perspectives etc). One of the issues that has faced the development of Oculus is latency. So if the PS4's processor cannot calculate fast enough the experience will be poor.
  
 I think we'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## Change is Good

The broadcast was fun guys! Evs, don't forget to follow me. Also,,I tried to catch your stream, just now, on my nexus 5 before going to sleep but you shut down right when I joined. 

And you follow me too, Mad! I already subscribed to your channel, but I see you mostly play during the day?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, i play during the morning, sleep during the afternoon, work at night.  can't say i have much time to watch streams, though I'll try it next time.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey guys,
  
 I was about to return my Skullcandy PLYR1 to Amazon, when it occurred to me that the price is now $50 more than I got it for.  I decided to try reselling them here at what I paid ($140 after tax + buyer pays shipping) to give someone a good deal on some decent gaming cans.  The classified is up if anyone is interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tyll at Innerfidelity gave a pretty favorable review of the newer Skullcandy Crusher. That frequency response of the drivers themselves are almost reference level type tuned, though with a very humongous dip at around 8khz which then spikes back up to be even with the mids at 10khz.

I demoed these at Best Buy, and I really liked them. I was just scared of the battery usage of their patent bass driver thing, which seems to have been for nothing as it apparently lasts 40 hours on a single AAA battery. The older Skullcrusher (a horrible, horrible headphone) ate batteries like tic tacs and just sounded wrong in every way.

I really liked the feeling of bass, and that the vibration is adjustable.

Maybe I'll get them for movies and the like.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

@Mad Lust Envy I watched your Youtube video on the V-moda Boom pro mic yesterday. Thought, ooh, that looks really cool as it would enable me to use a mic with my AKG's. Sadly my AKG's use a mini XLR 
  
 It seems I always have this kind of thing happen to me (owning something that is incompatible with something that would resolve a problem for me). I'm waiting on the Modmic v4, but where I live it will probably cost nearly the price of the mic itself to get it over to me. There always seems to be a hurdle to be got over. Would be nice if someone simply made a headset that ticks the boxes including sound quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Perhaps you can find someone to make a 3.5mm to AKG-specific mini-XLR (i believe the wires are different from typical mini-XLR) adapter. Like a barrel with both ends, so that you can connect the Boompro to the adapter, and the adapter to your AKg headphones.

That'd be nice.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I watched your Youtube video on the V-moda Boom pro mic yesterday. Thought, ooh, that looks really cool as it would enable me to use a mic with my AKG's. Sadly my AKG's use a mini XLR
> 
> It seems I always have this kind of thing happen to me (owning something that is incompatible with something that would resolve a problem for me). I'm waiting on the Modmic v4, but where I live it will probably cost nearly the price of the mic itself to get it over to me. There always seems to be a hurdle to be got over. Would be nice if someone simply made a headset that ticks the boxes including sound quality.


 
  
 I'm looking forward to seeing how the new Audio Technica ones sound.  I suspect they will be pretty popular.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Perhaps you can find someone to make a 3.5mm to AKG-specific mini-XLR (i believe the wires are different from typical mini-XLR) adapter. Like a barrel with both ends, so that you can connect the Boompro to the adapter, and the adapter to your AKg headphones.
> 
> That'd be nice.


 
 That's what I mean about hurdles. Why can't life be simple? lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man... if you can find someone to do that.... it opens up a world of possibilities as far as Boompro enabled headphones go.

K612
K702
Q701
Annie
K712
K812

I'd be down for a lot of these as gaming headsets.

So I went and splurged on the Skullcandy Crusher. :rolleyes:

it's about the closest thing I've heard that reminded me a lot of the 'feeling' of bass that the D7000 gave me. For $100, can't complain. I had $40 credit on Paypal, so no biggie.

Even has a detachable cable, so Boompro might work.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> The broadcast was fun guys! Evs, don't forget to follow me. Also,,I tried to catch your stream, just now, on my nexus 5 before going to sleep but you shut down right when I joined.
> 
> And you follow me too, Mad! I already subscribed to your channel, but I see you mostly play during the day?



Oh I thought you were going to sleep


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Not sure why but I don't always get notified of replies.
  
 I've been looking at everything and anything but haven't made up my mind what I should upgrade to. I've recently been looking at the Steelseries H wireless as it seems to do everything and I've never tried wireless before. But it's a lot of cash and I've heard mixed opinions. Generally it seems when compared to gaming headsets it is among the best in terms of audio quality, but next to headphones...
  
 I think I'll most likely go with headphones and some kind of mic solution, but I'm also not sure what I want to do in terms of audio processing.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Even has a detachable cable, so Boompro might work.


 
 Now you're just rubbing it in lol.
  
 Edit: Whoops, didn't mean to double post there. Thought I could edit and then quote/reply.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Man... if you can find someone to do that.... it opens up a world of possibilities as far as Boompro enabled headphones go.
> 
> K612
> K702
> ...




Lol wut?!?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Oh I thought you were going to sleep




Was going to... but can't sleep. Still on your PS4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh it's all good.

I like the idea of bass transducers working in parallel with headphone drivers. Transducers will give you the feeling of bass, without actually making the headphone drivers work for the same level of prominence in bass, letting them work more on everything else. Considering how sensitive I am to mid bass, getting transducers to do the work, without making the drivers sound overly prominent in that area sounds beneficial to me.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/unique-bass-sensation-skullcandy-crusher



That graph shows how relatively balanced the Crusher is other than that staggering dip in the upper mid-treble, which Tyll explains tends to be where most of the harshness lies in most headphones.

Tyll gave it his recommendation, and his tastes tend to fall next to mine almost always. If he says it sounds good, even with the transducers off, I believe him.

I can't wait for these. I think I'll love them for movie watching and may keep me from buying a soundbar, though I'm still interested in some which have pretty high marks. I miss my old soundbar. So convenient.


----------



## GrayRaven

Guys,
  
 Lots of you are going the route of combing the the boom pro with your open back headphones (i see a lot of fidelio x1 here)
 Would i sound crazy if I point out that the mic will pick the sound from the cans and create, i don't know, issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You overestimate the amount of noise open headphones put out. Certainly not even remotely close enough for the Boom Pro to pick up. Perhaps an Electrostatic or a Planarmagnetic playing at high volumes, but for most headphones, that's a non-issue whatsoever. Not forgetting to add that open headphones would be leaking sound away from the microphone anyways.


----------



## GrayRaven

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, Head-fi in general over exaggerates how much open headphones leak if only to protect newbies from getting something they may regret if they need to keep volume to an absolute low level.

The majority open headphones would only be audible in another room if a door was open, and the person in the other room was very close.

This is the same with microphones. No microphone should pick up headphone audio under most circumstances, unless perhaps it was an overly sensitive omni-directional mic aiming the mic towards the headphones.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

In my case it would be a non-issue. Pretty much anyone who has ever said "listen to this" and handed me headphones has had it much louder than I ever have them. I've got pretty sensitive hearing.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah some people tend to listen to headphones waaaaay too loud... I don't blame them it's cool sometimes but you gotta mind your own hearing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The saddest part is young people in trains listening loud on apple earbuds trying to crush the train's sound. 14,15, 18 years old. Their hearing is mostly already ruined.


----------



## GrayRaven

I just read at the AntLion site that they start to accept bitcoin for their modmic.
http://www.modmic.com/blogs/news/11157241-major-4-0-update-stock-info-bitcoin-accepted-now-uservoice-tool-added
  
 So instead of throwing a 40 bucks for a modmic, mining something like .08 of a bitcoin is both better and manageable, i guess.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Is surround working? Which DAC?


 
 Yes, I never even had to change any of the settings and it even works with blue rays straight out of the box..been playing uncharted second son and watched a bit of the omega man with Charlton Heston.. it's just youtube that I am having trouble with watching, says I need adobe flash player for some reason?


----------



## SonnyA85

martin vegas said:


> Yes, I never even had to change any of the settings and it even works with blue rays straight out of the box..been playing uncharted second son and watched a bit of the omega man with Charlton Heston.. it's just youtube that I am having trouble with watching, says I need adobe flash player for some reason?


 
 you need to use youtube.com/tv site for the ps4 not the normal youtube.com site


----------



## martin vegas

mrmartinvegas on psn if anyone wants to add me!


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> So I went and splurged on the Skullcandy Crusher.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I looked this thing up on Amazon and I got the impression that is has a built-in mic?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has an inline mic, which I dont ever count as headphones with in line mics as headsets. Headsets to me are those with legitimate boom microphones. In line mics tend to fail next to boom mics.

In line mics also tend to pick up more ambient noise and whatnot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

guys i'm about to go live, and I need you guys to tell me how the mic sounds. It's VERY finicky on the Ultrasone HS-15, as in it has issues plugging in correctly...


----------



## Change is Good

App kept crashing. Will to watch on the laptop or PS4 next time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's cool. I turned on my laptop to hear it myself. Sounds fine, I'd say. It's just an absolute pain to get to work.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Yes, I never even had to change any of the settings and it even works with blue rays straight out of the box..been playing uncharted second son and watched a bit of the omega man with Charlton Heston.. it's just youtube that I am having trouble with watching, says I need adobe flash player for some reason?




1.) Which DAC are you using?

2.) Are you listening in stereo, or processed virtual surround?


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> 1.) Which DAC are you using?
> 
> 2.) Are you listening in stereo, or processed virtual surround?


 
 Arcam r dac..using sennheiser u320 headset it has some surround!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it an optical dac or USB? No way it has surround. If USB, the PS4 uses generic drivers, and will only output stereo. If optical, unless the r dac states it has virtual surround, you ain't getting any. you need to check your sound settings anyways.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Is it an optical dac or USB? No way it has surround. If USB, the PS4 uses generic drivers, and will only output stereo. If optical, unless the r dac states it has virtual surround, you ain't getting any. you need to check your sound settings anyways.


 

 It's usb and optical not surround only stereo..the headset has a dongle thingy that gives it a surround ish sound..i have a gaming pc with a pioneer susano av receiver with s81 8.2 speakers for bf4 so not that bothered really!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like I'm pretty much done with the Ultrasone review, so I'll be fixing it, and uploading probably tonight.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Arcam r dac..using sennheiser u320 headset it has some surround!




Ok, so now I know which DAC (and how it's connected), and that you're using something like Dolby PL llx, "enhanced" stereo. People are more often polarized about pro logic IIx, but still, thank you for the info and clarification.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Ok, so now I know which DAC (and how it's connected), and that you're using something like Dolby PL llx, "enhanced" stereo. People are more often polarized about pro logic IIx, but still, thank you for the info and clarification.


 

 I am impressed with the ps4..got good sound and easy to navigate menus..even twitch tv is enjoyable to watch and easy to type to people..i still haven't figured out how to turn it on yet, I just use the controller to turn it on!


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I am impressed with the ps4..got good sound and easy to navigate menus..even twitch tv is enjoyable to watch and easy to type to people..i still haven't figured out how to turn it on yet, I just use the controller to turn it on!




There is a very small button in the middle ;D


----------



## Change is Good

Evs, tried to watch your stream and the app on my Nexus 5 still keeps crashing after about a minute or two. Bummer...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Evs, tried to watch your stream and the app on my Nexus 5 still keeps crashing after about a minute or two. Bummer...


 
  
 You didn't miss much.  He dies a LOT.  And he likes Apple.


----------



## dakanao

I noticed that those Ultrasones sometimes failed him to locate the enemy precisly in the stream.


----------



## Stillhart

dakanao said:


> I noticed that those Ultrasones sometimes failed him to locate the enemy precisly in the stream.


 
  
 Sorry, I was talking about Evshrug's stream.


----------



## dakanao

stillhart said:


> Sorry, I was talking about Evshrug's stream.


 
 Alright, and I was talking about MLE stream


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> *Evs*, tried to watch your stream and the app on my Nexus 5 still keeps crashing after about a minute or two. Bummer...





dakanao said:


> I noticed that those Ultrasones sometimes failed *him* to locate the enemy precisly in the stream.





stillhart said:


> Sorry, I was talking about *Evshrug's* stream.





dakanao said:


> Alright, and I was talking about *MLE* stream




o_O


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> o_O


 
 By ''him'', I was talking about MLE, he had a stream a few hours ago. He sounds like a really cool dude though.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> You didn't miss much.  He dies a LOT.  And he likes Apple.


 
 Apple?! Pfff, pre-order canceled.
  
[I kid]


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> By ''him'', I was talking about MLE, he had a stream a few hours ago. He sounds like a really cool dude though.


I'm just clarifying why stillhart ASSUMED you mistakenly thought I was talking about Mad.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I'm just clarifying why stillhart ASSUMED you mistakenly thought I was talking about Mad.


 
  
 I knew you were talking about Ev... I saw you in his stream!  lol
  
 I also knew dakanao was talking about MLE because he's the one testing Ultrasones right now.
  
 Don't worry, I'll stream tonight and you guys can get confused about that too just so we're all on the same page.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I knew you were talking about Ev... I saw you in his stream!  lol
> 
> I also knew dakanao was talking about MLE because he's the one testing Ultrasones right now.
> 
> Don't worry, I'll stream tonight and you guys can get confused about that too just so we're all on the same page.




I know you knew those things. Did you know that I now know I'm so knowingly confused?

Hehehe


----------



## Change is Good

Well, ended up selling my mixamp. Zombie might end up a bit upset about that lol. I needed the funds right away, though...

Now, just gotta sell the M-Stage... *cough* *cough*


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> You didn't miss much.  He dies a LOT.  And he likes Apple.


 
  
 Apple fanboy, present and ready for duty, sir.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Evs, tried to watch your stream and the app on my Nexus 5 still keeps crashing after about a minute or two. Bummer...



Bummer dude. I try again?



stillhart said:


> You didn't miss much.  He dies a LOT.  And he likes Apple.  :blink:



I also like oranges. Almost finished a liter of orange juice this week, by myself!

...

I didn't think I died all that much...



conquerator2 said:


> Apple?! Pfff, pre-order canceled.
> 
> [I kid]



Wait, what preorder? Is there some future product I will produce that you are already calling dibs on? If I may ask, what kind of thing is it? Please tell me Future Ev makes a really cool gadget 



change is good said:


> Well, ended up selling my mixamp. Zombie might end up a bit upset about that lol. I needed the funds right away, though...
> 
> Now, just gotta sell the M-Stage... *cough* *cough*



I don't think Zombie would judge you for selling it. Overpriced for what you get anyway. He'd just judge me for having almost all of the surround processors at the same time.

Which Mixamp did you sell? Which M-Stage Matrix are you selling?


----------



## Change is Good

Sold the pro after I picked up a 5.8.

I'm selling the M-Stage 2012 USB version. Interested?


----------



## Change is Good

Bored...

Going live I guess...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for me not being able to find people accurately, that was more of the game modes I was playing. Gun Game doesn't allow for good sound whoring, since the perks are pre-loaded. My footsteps drown out other sounds too much. That and one of my loadouts I was using didn't have amplify which is a necessity for soundwhoring those times I was playing tdm and free 4 all.

It's also hard to soundwhore when you talk. Normally, I pay a lot more attention.

The ultrasone I was using isn't the clearest and doesn't soundwhore well, but it still does a good job.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I'm curious,  (to anyone following the thread) what would your dream setup be for multi-platform gaming? Headset or headphone and if so what mic? Processor, amp, in the case of a PC soundcard, the whole kit and kaboodle.
  
 Unless of course this is a tiresome question, in which case ignore me


----------



## wilflare

currently using the PULSE Wireless Elite
 anyone tried the Gold and feel that it's a good upgrade?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Bored...
> 
> Going live I guess...


 
  
 How can you be bored when you have us?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> How can you be bored when you have us?


 
 Because you're boring.
  
 Just kidding, please don't take offence


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> Because you're boring.
> 
> Just kidding, please don't take offence


----------



## Napalmhardcore

May have to save that pic for when I make posts that get no replies lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

I just googled "I'm boring" and it was the first image.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

oh youse gyez.

I'm being lazy. I should hurry up with the 'sone.


----------



## Change is Good

I have a real trick up my sleeve, guys. Soon, when the time is right, I'm going to try it. Let's just say it's an open headphone, will have alcantara pads on, and will be BoomPro compatible...
  
 The sound sig with the alcantaras will ultimately decide if they will be the greatest headphone turned headset, thus far! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can't do it until the M-Stage sells, however...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dekimashiita!

----------
----------





*Ultrasone HS-15* (*headset*)



Discontinued (found on Ebay for $20-$40)

*Where To Buy*: Ebay



Spoiler: Review



*Before I begin, I'd like to personally thank forum member and friend calpis for sending me the Ultrasone HS-15. It was unexpected, yet very much welcome.*

The Ultrasone HS-15 headset. It is the third Ultrasone I've heard, and sounds completely different from what I have experienced with the Pro 900 and Pro 2900 (which calpis also sent to me at the time of it's review). The Ultrasone HS-15 is no longer in production, and is somewhat rare and hard to find outside of the random Ebay listings. There is a semi-open variant without a microphone, the HS-15G which is unfortunately even harder to find and more expensive. I'd like to get my hands on the HS-15G at some point.

HS-15 bullet points found on Amazon:



> _
> *S-Logic natural surround sound moves the sound out of the headphones and into the room around you for a spacious three dimensional sound, as if you are in a live concert
> 
> *Safer listening, less fatigue - pressure to the ear drum is decreased by up to 40% (3-4dB) for the same perceived loudness, significantly reducing the risk of hearing damage
> ...






*Build Quality:*

Rating: Great



The HS-15 has a retro 80's vibe to it's design, with an all black plastic frame, overly lengthy boom microphone (see here), and a cable that looks like it was taken from a home appliance. The HS-15 reminds me of the many cheap no-name headphones found in any store in terms of aesthetics. It's all function over form, substance over style, which fits it's intentions in every way.

The headband is covered in relatively cheap looking, but smooth synthetic leather. It sits perfectly on the head, and you could potentially bend and twist it in any which way without so much as even a minor scare of it breaking.

The circular cups are held by short plastic arms that would allow plenty of extension for my longish head.

The foam ear pads are supraaural/on ear, reminiscent of Koss Portapro, and the Sennheiser PX-100, though larger, and considerably softer. The HS-15 pads are thicker and more plush, though you can feel a thinner circular area in the middle (which I'm sure is to not muffle up the sound before it reaches the ears).

The cable itself is incredibly long and (as mentioned earlier), looks like those found on home appliances, like 3 small cables clued together horizontally. Electrostatic headphones share this style of cable as well. The cable terminates into two 3.5mm plugs, one for audio (black), one for the microphone (gray). Strain reliefs appear perfectly functional on both ends.

Overall, while the HS-15 certainly looks cheap, I don't see any structural weaknesses anywhere on it's frame, and the plastic looks like it could take a lot of abuse. You could bend the headband and twist the cups, yet it'd go back to it's normal shape without any issue whatsoever. It's a wonder how headphones this relatively inexpensive can take any abuse short of a nuclear strike, yet headphones costing over 10x the price would crumble under any minor stress. I can safely say that these would suit anyone that needs a beater headset to toss around and abuse without any real consequences.



*Accessories:*

Carrying Pouch:




The HS-15 comes with a very nice carrying pouch which appears to be water resistant. Much more convenient than a standard cloth carrying pouch. Since the HS-15 looks very abuse resistant, the pouch may better serve other, more fragile headphones in your arsenal.



*Comfort:*

Rating: Amazing

The HS-15 is easily THE most comfortable supraaural headphone I have owned to date, outside of the Koss/Yuin clip ons (which may be on ear, but as clip ons, don't sit on the ear the same way as headphones with headbands).

The HS-15 is incredibly lightweight, and rests on the ears just enough to not be loose, but tight enough to stay secure. The only issue I have is that my right ear gets sore after a prolonged session, though that may be a personal sensitivity issue, as I get no discomfort on my left ear. I have to assume that if others have less sensitive ears, the HS-15 may be near perfection in comfort for them.

Again, these are arguably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn outside of the Koss KSC75 and Yuin G1A. I'd argue that the Sony MA900 may beat it solely due to the fact that it (mostly) rests around the ears, though with it's larger frame and my inability to relax and lay down with them in the same way as the HS-15, I would honestly reach for the HS-15 over the MA900 more times than not if I were basing everything off comfort. I'm positive that some who didn't find the MA900 to be comfortable, would think otherwise of the HS-15.

Long story short, if you want supreme comfort, it simply doesn't get much better than this.



*Design Issues:*

Microphone:



The boom microphone is massive, and isn't as flexible/malleable as others I have owned/tested. It easily reaches the front of my mouth, and is almost always present in my peripheral vision. The only solution is to bend the microphone a bit away from the face, and even then, it's not elegant.

Microphone plug: 



The plug is single pole, and doesn't exactly plug into inputs quite right. If you connect it into an input completely, you won't get any audio. The solution is to connect it partially until you get chat audio. This is a problem I have encountered with all my chat inputs, whether on my mixamp, computer, or my Mixamp female 'Y' splitter cable for audio/chat.



*Isolation/Leakage:*

Rating: Fair

While it's closed back, the pads allow sound to leak in and out, so it's not one of the better closed backed headphones I have used for noise control. Not as bad a fully open headphone, but it's not going to contain it's own sound all that well.



*Microphone:*

Rating: Good

From the brief testing I have done with the microphone, everything was heard relatively well. The only problem with the mic is that it has it's own plug, so something like a PC Y audio splitter (those that have an audio and microphone input and convert it into one plug) will be needed for most new devices that have only one input for both audio and chat. The problem here is that for some reason, the microphone plug won't pick up any audio unless I partially plug it into my devices. Perhaps someone can send me a message as to why this older looking gray plug works this way, or if this is just an issue with the HS-15.



*Sound:*

Rating: Decent

The HS-15 is undeniably on the warm, bassy side. It is overall a quite non-fatiguing, and relaxing sound signature, with a spike in treble for some upper range clarity, though not so much as to aid much in airiness, clarity, and detail retrieval. The mellow tone of the HS-15 is unlike what I would expect of Ultrasone, since from my experience, Ultrasones are known for their aggressive, bright, and forward sound which is the opposite of the HS-15's sound. One thing that the HS-15 shares with the other Ultrasones I have reviewed is that it yields excellent low end control despite it's emphasis.

S-Logic to me is a hit or miss. The pros are that it expands the soundstage and works well with virtual surround. The downside is that it makes music sound slightly distant, and is akin to a full tonal recession. It also makes ear pad placement on the ear alter the sound quite noticeably, so it has to be placed perfectly to get the best possible sound.

The bullet point stating lower decibel output for equal clarity is somewhat true. The volume level is considerably lower than other headphones, and I find a need to use an amp for most occasions, as the HS-15 sounds distant and muted overall. To contradict it's intention, I find the HS-15 to sound it's best when played moderately high in volume, which aids in clarity and detail, which isn't hampered much by it's bass due to the excellent control.

Let me clarify with some specifics...



*Bass:*

Rating: Great

If one thing can be said of the HS-15, is that it handles bass very well. This is a budget priced headphone that I have no shame in saying would outdo many headphones in bass control at any price range. The bass is strong and commanding, textured, and expertly controlled. Due to it's emphasis, it may take some of the spotlight away from the HS-15's other frequencies, though it's more a problem of it being strong on emphasis, and not because the HS-15 lacks control or speed. The HS-15 is ideal for bassy music without any of the upper range fatigue.

The one downside I find is that some male vocals and instruments that hit in the lower depths of sound tend to sound artifically strong and boomy.



*Mids:*

Rating: Fair

The mids (due to S-Logic and the strong emphasis of bass) sound a bit distant/spaced further back in the mix than I'd personally like. I'm fine with mid recession as long as it's not too distant, and the HS-15 walks a fine line between being fair to being mediocre.

The upside is that due to the great control of bass, the mids aren't swallowed up or masked in general. Just...pushed back.



*Treble:*

Rating: Decent

There are a few areas that sound peaky, sizzly, and artificial. Thankfully, the ranges seem to be short, as the treble is generally smooth for long-term listening sessions. The detail in the treble isn't the final word on transparency or clarity, so if you're looking to analyze details and want lots of air, the HS-15 isn't a strong contender in that regard.

If you want a headphone you can listen to for hours, upon hours, and don't mind the warm, smooth presentation, the HS-15's treble range will more often than not please you.



*Soundstage:*

Rating: Good

For stereo/music, I find the HS-15's soundstage to be decent for a closed headphone, partly in thanks to the S-Logic. The instrument separation is very good within the head space, though it doesn't image as well as some of my favorite soundstage proficient headphones.

In virtual surround, S-Logic once again proves itself valuable, as the HS-15 throws off a nice soundstage depsite it being a closed headphone, with decent depth, and tight, well defined sound placement.



*Positioning:*

Rating: Very Good

The HS-15's good soundstage especially in virtual surround paired up with sharp sound placement is quite beneficial to it's very good positional cues. It easily bests my Astro A30s and DNA On Ear in pinpoint accuracy, despite it's warmer, more bass driven sound and smooth tonality. While it certainly wouldn't be a top recommendation for competitive gaming due to the bassy and warm tonality, the HS-15 can stand it's own feet if you decide to use it for hardcore gaming.



*Clarity:*

Rating: Mediocre to Fair

The HS-15 is slightly muted and distant sounding alongside it's bass emphasis, so don't expect proficiency in clarity and detail. The warm, non-fatiguing tonality sacrifices clarity and detail, with the exception of some treble ranges which shimmer and peak above the softness of the HS-15's general sound.

As stated before, the HS-15 favors moderately high volume levels to bring out some of the detail that at low volumes can come off non-descript and veiled.



*Amping:*

Recommended

The HS-15 was designed with a lower volume output supposedly for equal clarity. I'd say they partially succeeded as it does make it harder to drive to satisfying volume levels. The clarity is 'equal' as stated, though I'd joke that it's more or less equally lacking.

For music, you will want at least a portable amp on the neutral to bright side to bring out more of the detail.



*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Maybe 
Gaming? Maybe

As long as you understand it's limits, and I assure you it's not without flaws, you will be pleased by it's warm, smooth nature, and amazing comfort, which makes the HS-15 decent for all around listening, with good immersion for fun gaming, or bass driven music.

Despite it's less than stellar technicalities, I could see myself reaching for these more than many other headphones due to it's comfort and inoffensive nature.

Considering that the HS-15 can be found for as low as $20, it puts it next to some of my absolute fave budget cans, the KSC-75 and Sportapro/KSC35. In terms of all around purpose, I would still reach for the legendary budget killers by Koss, though the HS-15 is a good alternative.



*Comparisons*:

Fortunately, I had two on ear headphones on hand for comparison.

Astro A30: The A30s is a headset I can safely say I just do not like. Not much about it sounds agreeable to my ears. It manages to sound loose, yet thin at the same time. It has an odd imaging issue, and a flat, almost two dimensional soundstage. The HS-15 sounds fuller, more rounded, and considerably more appealing in almost every single way. There is no question that the HS-15 is the more likable headphone, winning in basically any and every category I can think of.

Monster DNA On Ear: Next to the Monster DNA On Ear, the Ultrasone HS-15 sounds thin, and artificial. The Ultrasone HS-15 however, gives sharper positional cues for gaming, though the DNA On Ear performs quite well in this regard, with the benfit of sounding more refined, fuller, natural, and more balanced. The HS-15 demands a fairly significant amount of driving force compared to the DNA On Ear, and thus makes for a weak choice for portable use (though with the huge microphone, I wouldn't be caught dead in public with the HS-15). The DNA On Ear sounds a bit less proficient in the bass, and lacks the texture, speed, and control of the HS-15's bass. Other than the bass and positional cue proficiency of the HS-15, the DNA On Ear is easily identifiable as the better headphone (as well as it should be, considering the price gap between the two).



*Final Impressions:*

Sound quality on the HS-15 isn't amazing overall, so if you're looking for something to be impressed by, the HS-15 will leave you longing for something objectively clearer. However, if you are looking for a beater headphone that you can wear all day, and can jam out to without over analyzing it's details, the HS-15 is a great headphone. It presents a good value at it's low street price, with excellent control of it's bass and nearly perfect comfort. 

While the review may sound a bit on the negative side, I have to say that the HS-15 is enjoyable and pleasing to use, enough for me to forgive it's shortcomings and mark it as a decent headphone. I would simply reach for the HS-15 over many headphones mainly due to comfort and pleasing sound.





Spoiler: Fun: 7/10 (Good)



The strong, yet well controlled bass, paired up with the very good positional cues, makes for a pretty fun and immersive headphone.





Spoiler: Competitive: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



While the HS-15 offers very good positional cues, it's mellow and distant sound won't hold up next to headphones more detailed, forward, and clearer. It is still quite decent for competitive gaming, with sharp positional accuracy and a good sense of space in virtual surround, just don't expect soundwhoring goodness. I'd wager that a good EQ of the mids and treble would make the HS-15 a very good competitive gaming headphone for a budget price.





Spoiler: Comfort: 9.5/10 (Amazing)



Regardless of whether any other headphone is on ear or over ear, there simply isn't much out there that is as comfortable as the HS-15





Spoiler: Overall: 6.5/10 (Very Decent)



The HS-15 makes a good backup headset, and a good, relaxing headphone due to it's warm tonality and top tier comfort.







----------
----------


----------



## kcazbarach

So has anyone tried modding an ma900 to use it with the boompro mic? I was thinking of going that route and paying btg audio to add a 3.5mm input to the headphone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've added a bit more to the HS-15 review, like images which I should start doing so I can show any strengths and weaknesses to the build in particular, etc.

So I'd say that this is probably the best looking review in terms of how fleshed out it is... maybe.


----------



## martin vegas

I think they could have done a bit better job with youtube and put a subscribe button on twitch, other than that I am more than happy with my ps4!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Seems most of the headphones I've been interested in or have been investigating have compatibility issues with the BoomPro (locking mechanisms, proprietary connectors... and bears, oh my!). Why can't life be simple? (this may become my catchphrase lol)
  
 Edit: I'm very much liking the idea of the Sennheiser PC 360's. I know I said I was probably going to go with headphones and a mic, but half my posts on this thread have been me thinking out loud/seeking validation.
  
 What processor would you pair the PC 360's with if it were you?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm really irritated right now. So I pay $8 for weekend delivery, and the freaking fedex comes in a 9:30am. WHY THE HELL DO THEY DELIVER SO EARLY? I got home 15 minutes later, and now I have to waste the rest of my morning pissed off until its 3pm just so I can go pick up the damn package. I'd just hold out until Monday, but then I'd just be throwing my gd money away. I was expecting them maybe 10 or 11. This is so damn stupid. I swear, they do this on purpose. I hate Fedex with a freaking passion.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> I'm really irritated right now. So I pay $8 for weekend delivery, and the freaking fedex comes in a 9:30am. WHY THE HELL DO THEY DELIVER SO EARLY? I got home 15 minutes later, and now I have to waste the rest of my morning pissed off until its 3pm just so I can go pick up the damn package. I'd just hold out until Monday, but then I'd just be throwing my gd money away. I was expecting them maybe 10 or 11. This is so damn stupid. I swear, they do this on purpose. I hate Fedex with a freaking passion.


 
 Sorry to hear that.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> I'm really irritated right now. So I pay $8 for weekend delivery, and the freaking fedex comes in a 9:30am. WHY THE HELL DO THEY DELIVER SO EARLY? I got home 15 minutes later, and now I have to waste the rest of my morning pissed off until its 3pm just so I can go pick up the damn package. I'd just hold out until Monday, but then I'd just be throwing my gd money away. I was expecting them maybe 10 or 11. This is so damn stupid. I swear, they do this on purpose. I hate Fedex with a freaking passion.


 

 Don't get weekend delivery anymore..i sent a game from England to a friend in Connecticut by first class air mail and it took two weeks..cost me about $16..it was fear files on xbox360!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> As for me not being able to find people accurately, that was more of the game modes I was playing. Gun Game doesn't allow for good sound whoring, since the perks are pre-loaded. My footsteps drown out other sounds too much. That and one of my loadouts I was using didn't have amplify which is a necessity for soundwhoring those times I was playing tdm and free 4 all.
> 
> It's also hard to soundwhore when you talk. Normally, I pay a lot more attention.
> 
> The ultrasone I was using isn't the clearest and doesn't soundwhore well, but it still does a good job.



Ask Change and Stillhart, I was doing pretty good last night while chatting 

Also, I realize you have a vampire schedule, but most people would not complain about rush delivery arriving early. It gives a better chance they get it before work.

But I understand that shipping in general is a real hassle in your living/job schedule situation.



napalmhardcore said:


> I'm curious,  (to anyone following the thread) what would your dream setup be for multi-platform gaming? Headset or headphone and if so what mic? Processor, amp, in the case of a PC soundcard, the whole kit and kaboodle.
> 
> Unless of course this is a tiresome question, in which case ignore me



Everyone has a favourite. My fav, for your situation, is Creative's Recon3D USB. I have an extensive review in my sig. Another plus not mentioned there: the mic input works! It comes with all needed cables.


----------



## Zombie_X

REMOVED, my bad Change..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, I got to hear the K545... man, it sounds thin and cold as hell. Either that demo unit is fubar'd, or its like the K550, and definitely not my cup of tea. I mean...no way.


----------



## Change is Good

Edit: All good, man.




mad lust envy said:


> Change, I got to hear the K545... man, it sounds thin and cold as hell. Either that demo unit is fubar'd, or its like the K550, and definitely not my cup of tea. I mean...no way.




That unit you demo'ed is definitely not what the K545 is intended to sound like. Maybe both drivers were defective? Because what you describe is what I was getting out of the defective side.

From what I heard from the one working side, and from what I've read... the unit you demoe'ed has to be defective. Yet another red flag for QC issues... smh


----------



## Zombie_X

I am upset but it was a misunderstanding.. As long as I get a mixamp I'll be happy. 
  
 Watch your butt later when we play. I'll be streaming ya'll. http://www.twitch.tv/saiyanelite87


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Zombie, I distinctly remember you being quite anti virtual surround a while back... giving it another go?

So I got my Skullcandy Crusher. As stated, its actually very linear in tonality, and the main draw ia the bass sensation driver which works independently from the audio driver. You can put the bass driver on max and it the audio won't be hampered in any real way. I like it most when the switch is halfway, since max is... holy balls rumble.

I'm quite happy, and I can see these being super popular for bassheads, and for those who like a linear balance if you turn off the bass switch. I can see why Tyll likes them. They sound good, and fun. 

I unboxed them but my video looked like crap, so no vid going to be uploaded.

BTW, IT WORKS WITH THE BOOMPRO.


----------



## Evshrug

By the way, a very tidy headphone review Mad


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> I am upset but it was a misunderstanding.. As long as I get a mixamp I'll be happy.
> 
> Watch your butt later when we play. I'll be streaming ya'll. http://www.twitch.tv/saiyanelite87


 

 Following you on twitch now Zombie!


----------



## Change is Good

I see another review coming! 

Guess we'll wait on sending you those AKGs. That is, if Ev hasn't sent his to me already


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> By the way, a very tidy headphone review Mad




Thanks bro. 

I spent all of last night tidying that and some other reviews up just a little.

Man, the Crushers... I think I love these enough already to know that I'd wanna send it to you guys just to get a whole new experience, hahaha. I think this may be my fave rendition of bass if mostly because despite how strong it FEELS the audio doesn't get recessed whatsoever. You simply can't get this type of bass AND linearity from typical headphones. I think the sweet spot may actually be around 35%-40% (three notches showing on the switch).

These are keepers. ABSOLUTELY. My movies and games are about to become incredibly immersive, hahaha.

Oh yeah, just from the music, I can tell tbe soundstage is very good too. Considering how deep the rear of the cups are relative to the drivers, I can understand why.

Sound sig: warm and linear. With bass driver off, the bass is warm but pretty balanced/in line with the mids. Not fast, and not slow. Organic? It does roll off in the sub bass though. You'll definitely want the bass sensation driver on to fill it out more.

I'm absolutely jamming.


----------



## Razz7

Hi, Is there any way to get rid of the sound delay from Dolby digital live to a headset/headphones?


----------



## Zombie_X

MLE, you were looking for a way to hook up the Boom Pro to the Q701, right? I think that's something I'll experiment with. I have mini XLR's on hand and I'll order a 1/8 jack. Lets see if I can rig something up. I'm pretty sure I can fit a 1/8" jack in the body of the mini XLR no problem.


----------



## Knightwolf15

Anyone know if the logitech g930 is any good for built in wireless 7.1 or should I splurge and go with the Skullcandy ones?


----------



## xSneak

How does the k612/k601 compare to the k702 annie / k712? 
  
 I'm using the k601 currently and wondering if it would be an upgrade to go to the annie/712. 
  
 It seems like everyone says the k601/612 is better at imaging/positioning, but has a smaller soundstage.


----------



## Zombie_X

Success! I can now use the Boom Pro on a Q701! The adapter is on an inch and a half long. Works like a charm. Wanna test drive the adapter MLE?
  
 Also I only considered the mixamp because it was being offered to me at a super good deal... now I'm on the hunt for another int hat same price bracket.


----------



## conquerator2

Hey MLE & Co. I've been wondering one thing for a while, that's - has anyone been experiencing distortion with deep explosions, using DH on consoles [meaning being tied to the DSS/Mixamp/etc.]. This solely applies to harder to drive headphones that cannot be driven with the Mixamp/DSS alone and require double-amping [adding a secondary amp to provide additional needed power]
  
 Like, what's causing this distortion is the one amp I cannot skip - the DSS.
 The headphones are essentially double-amped [1]DSS->2]external amp]
 I at first thought it was the particular headphone as the external amp was always strong enough with plenty headroom...
 But now that I think about it, it is the weak, measly DSS that even though backed up by a more powerful amplifier is still being over-driven and causing big amounts of distortion with bigger amounts of deeper bass.
  
 Well, I am convinced that is almost certainly the case... That'd mean that every console gamer who uses a harder to drive headphone [i.e. - has to use a secondary amp] must have noticed it - deep explosions cause distortion with harder to drive headphones.
  
 My setup has always been as follows console -> toslink out-in -> DSS -> headphone out [-> 1/8 to RCA adapter -> external amp] -> headphones
  
 As long as the DSS/Mixamp can drive the headphone fine on its own, the distortion doesn't happen [even when using a secondary amp just for the sake of it] but when it cannot drive it, and a secondary amp will provide the remaining needed power, but due to zero overhead on the DSS it will still distort.
  
 Can this be reduced somehow? Other than by using easy to drive headphones? Like it doesn't happen with the MA900/X1 [easy to drive] but it does happen with the K612/HE-X[XX] [hard to drive].
  
 I would expect that mentioned in the preface somewhere though...
  
 No solution to that it seems, for me? :/
  
 Thanks!
  
 A pic:


----------



## Evshrug

*Conq*,
I don't hear bass distortion with my DSS and either my Q701 or K712 unless the bass boost is turned up... with or without a second amp. I usually have the DSS at less than full volume while double-amping, and the bass boost quite low unless I "want" boomy bass (sometimes, it's fun).

Edit: that's not a DSS, that's one of the transmitter stations. Are you using that or a DSS?




change is good said:


> I see another review coming!
> 
> Guess we'll wait on sending you those AKGs. That is, if Ev hasn't sent his to me already




We already que'd up 
Something else might be going on here tho: Chico, you, and I have already heard the K712's (and liked em!), you, kman111, and I think Conq have already heard the K612... We'd love to share with him just as he wants to share the Crushers, but maybe he is only interested if he gets to "discover new lands," if you get what I'm sayin 

I've got the K712 Pro box from my old house now, so you can have the "full" experience again. Though I kinda want to hold on to the coil cable for convenience, lol!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> *Conq*,
> I don't hear bass distortion with my DSS and either my Q701 or K712 unless the bass boost is turned up... with or without a second amp. I usually have the DSS at less than full volume while double-amping, and the bass boost quite low unless I "want" boomy bass (sometimes, it's fun).
> 
> Edit: that's not a DSS, that's one of the transmitter stations. Are you using that or a DSS?
> ...




Yes I am using that station because it is a DH certified device and seems identical to the DSS/mixamp.
There's no bass boost function but I'll try to reduce the volume more.
It really only happens with those sub-bass explosions and it might actually be partially down to the headphone. + the slight DH bass boost (I am convinced there's slight)

EDIT - seems like I had it maxed out for some reason... Facepalm. Will test tomorrow and see if reducing the volume helped. Though I am not too positive about it xP


----------



## Evshrug

You don't KNOW it's identical to the DSS in implimentation, it might have a crappy amp or have an always-on hardware bass boost. The DSS doesn't distort bass unless the bass is boosted up (and even then it doesn't get very bad).

Still, it's helpful to ease off from the amp's max "wall" that the power draw of the bass might be hitting.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> You don't KNOW it's identical to the DSS in implimentation, it might have a crappy amp or have an always-on hardware bass boost. The DSS doesn't distort bass unless the bass is boosted up (and even then it doesn't get very bad).
> 
> Still, it's helpful to ease off from the amp's max "wall" that the power draw of the bass might be hitting.




Well since it only really happens with neutral hard to drive headphones I am inclined to think there's a bass boost probably but I really don't think it's the amps fault ( it doesn't hiss or anything at the highest volume as usually associated with very low amps)
It's down to a particular game too. When the explosions are both reasonably tight and punchy it does not. When the explosion is all boom and sub-bass like COD it sometimes does... I am starting to think that neutral headphones simply cannot reproduce that by nature because they were not meant to in the first place... Bass heavy cans don't distort there so that supports my theory.


----------



## Evshrug

*shrug*
At least we're exploring.
Good luck when you test it out later


----------



## Stillhart

zombie_x said:


> MLE, you were looking for a way to hook up the Boom Pro to the Q701, right? I think that's something I'll experiment with. I have mini XLR's on hand and I'll order a 1/8 jack. Lets see if I can rig something up. I'm pretty sure I can fit a 1/8" jack in the body of the mini XLR no problem.


 
  
 If you can get something like that working, I'd probably buy one off you.


----------



## E10Turbi

jhex2 said:


> You are correct, I mute the game audio through the headset adapter and click the chat audio button until that's the only thing coming through it. Game audio through the DSS, Chat audio through the chat adapter.




Hey Jhex2, do you get complaints that your party is hearing an echo with this setup? I was just partied up with a group and it was the first time running in the same configuration as you described. Everyone said they could hear an echo and when looking at the green circle next to my name in the party list it would flash any time someone said anything. Only difference I can think of between my setup and yours is I'm running the x41 transmitter base as my source vs the dss but don't think that would make much difference.


----------



## iamstumper

@Zombie_X Can you post a photo of your Q701 setup with the BoomPro Mic?  I have the K712 and am very curious on how to accomplish this


----------



## JHex2

e10turbi said:


> Hey Jhex2, do you get complaints that your party is hearing an echo with this setup? I was just partied up with a group and it was the first time running in the same configuration as you described. Everyone said they could hear an echo and when looking at the green circle next to my name in the party list it would flash any time someone said anything. Only difference I can think of between my setup and yours is I'm running the x41 transmitter base as my source vs the dss but don't think that would make much difference.


 
 Never really had an echo tbh. Not sure why there would be one in the first place? The mic is wired separately and no reason the mic should be picking up any sort of audio while you're using headphones?
  
 The only thing I can think of is if your 2 female to 1 male 3.5mm adapter connected to the chat adapter is the issue. Mine has separate mic and headphone inputs, so if yours doesnt that might be a problem. Maybe chat audio is coming through the mic too?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Everyone has a favourite. My fav, for your situation, is Creative's Recon3D USB. I have an extensive review in my sig. Another plus not mentioned there: the mic input works! It comes with all needed cables.


 
 Thanks for the reply. I have a SB Omni 3D, but haven't really put it through its paces yet. This is good as it shares many features with the Recon 3D and will give me a chance to form an opinion.
  
 I wanted to have parity between my console and PC gaming so wanted to find out if there was a general consensus as to what is considered the best surround processor. It has only been the last year or so that I've started becoming interested in audio equipment and am quickly learning that this is an area of interest where the key word is subjectivity when it comes to opinions.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have a SB Omni 3D, but haven't really put it through its paces yet. This is good as it shares many features with the Recon 3D and will give me a chance to form an opinion.
> 
> I wanted to have parity between my console and PC gaming so wanted to find out if there was a general consensus as to what is considered the best surround processor. It has only been the last year or so that I've started becoming interested in audio equipment and am quickly learning that this is an area of interest where the key word is subjectivity when it comes to opinions.


 
  
 That's very correct.  I suggest watching the comparison videos in both this guide and Evshrug's guide.  Get an idea of which surround processing you like best.  For me, I prefer THX to Dolby Headphone.  It seems many more people prefer DH.  You have to decide for yourself.  Once you've picked a surround style you like, it should help pare down your choices a lot.


----------



## Evshrug

The Omni is nice, I have one of those too, but it doesn't have the ability to decode DDL 5.1 surround from a console, sadly. But yeah, there is not a consensus on what is best (just which is cheapest, most expensive, most versatile).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> That's very correct.  I suggest watching the comparison videos in both this guide and Evshrug's guide.  Get an idea of which surround processing you like best.  For me, I prefer THX to Dolby Headphone.  It seems many more people prefer DH.  You have to decide for yourself.  Once you've picked a surround style you like, it should help pare down your choices a lot.


 
 I'll do that. Thanks for the advice.
  


evshrug said:


> The Omni is nice, I have one of those too, but it doesn't have the ability to decode DDL 5.1 surround from a console, sadly. But yeah, there is not a consensus on what is best (just which is cheapest, most expensive, most versatile).


 
 I bought the Omni as I thought the in-built mics might enable me to use headphones without a mic. Being naively optimistic I contacted Creative asking if they may support the Omni on the PS3/4 in future. They told me that the Omni is only compatible with PC/Mac and then suggested I may like to buy one of their headsets. This simultaneously annoyed and amused me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If Creative gets off their ass and releases a console friendly SBX device, I may have to get it for comparison. Would appreciate it being wireless though.


----------



## E10Turbi

jhex2 said:


> Never really had an echo tbh. Not sure why there would be one in the first place? The mic is wired separately and no reason the mic should be picking up any sort of audio while you're using headphones?
> 
> The only thing I can think of is if your 2 female to 1 male 3.5mm adapter connected to the chat adapter is the issue. Mine has separate mic and headphone inputs, so if yours doesnt that might be a problem. Maybe chat audio is coming through the mic too?




Yeah strange I'm running a headset connector and a standard stereo splitter setup the way you described. Wonder if the pc360 is doing something different or the x41 transmitter is.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> I'll do that. Thanks for the advice.
> 
> I bought the Omni as I thought the in-built mics might enable me to use headphones without a mic. Being naively optimistic I contacted Creative asking if they may support the Omni on the PS3/4 in future. They told me that the Omni is only compatible with PC/Mac and then suggested I may like to buy one of their headsets. This simultaneously annoyed and amused me.




Just sayin, I happen to prefer THX over DH too (tho DH is definitely serviceable), so does AxelCloris. Mad and several others prefer DH. Nameless likes CMSS3D best. When set up right, they're all good, but the shape of your ear canals (and personal taste) will define your fav.

Consoles only send out positional audio (meant for home theater speakers) through optical cables or HDMI. There is some licensing issue I think that prevents computer soundcards from processing surround from consoles. The Recon3D USB is the odd bird, but I think it is "allowed" because there is a physical switch built-in to switch between computer and console modes. It also has very low background noise (can't hear any hiss with an AKG 62 ohm headphone), but a pretty weak/average amp, it works very well if plugged into a dedicated headphone amp.


*Mad,*
They updated the Recon3D listing, stating that it's PS4 compatible! I don't think we're near a new model, but that's just a guess.


----------



## rc10mike

For anyone looking for a high-end Boom Pro compatible headphone, Im selling my Beyerdynamic DT990s with detachable cable upgrade where the Boom Pro can plug right in to. Link in sig...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I'm currently in a back and fourth with Creative support.
  
 I have an AV receiver which is capable of up to 5.1, but only have stereo speakers (lack of space dictates placement of my desk and furniture, which in turn dictates, no surround speakers for me).
  
 When I was testing the Omni, I initially set it to use the Dolby surround as my receiver should be able to play back multi channel sources in stereo either using one of the DSP settings to emulate surround or straight (front right and left channels to front right and left speakers, or so I assume). I kept on having the audio drop out momentarily.
  
 I contacted Creative (although at this time didn't mention that I was using stereo speakers) and asked if this was a known issue and how I should proceed. I followed all the steps they told me (like updating my bios and chipset drivers etc), but still no luck. I told them the equipment I was using and how I had it set up. I was then told this.
  

```
[color=rgb(68, 68, 68)] Only function of DD Live is to upmix and encode stereo source to 5.1 Virtual (Most of the receivers have this feature but named as Dolby Digital Pro Logic II); nothing else. For example MP3, Audio CD etc . If the source already has 5.1 discrete DD or DTS channels (eg. DVD with discrete 5.1 channels) we usually disable DD Live and use pass-through connection because there is no point in decoding studio recorded audio on a DVD by the playback software and encoding them again. You mentioned you have A/V Receiver with stereo speakers (not 5.1 connected to the AVR) , in this case it is better to use SPDIF out . This is a pass through connection (ie. SPDIF is set as default in Windows and DD Live is disabled in Omni control panel). Audio would break if you upmix to 5.1 (i.e DD Live) and connect stereo speakers instead of 5.1 speakers to your AVR.[/color]
```
  
 This sounded odd to me, so I did a little research. From what I can tell DDL is not to encode stereo as Pro Logic II but to encode signals as Dolby Digital (5.1). I questioned this and they sidestepped the question and asked me to try various different methods of configuring the unit and testing the performance. I've yet to get back to them.


----------



## Evshrug

Napalm,
I feel like, if I wasn't tired, I could work out an answer for you.
But anyway, why output Surround to two speakers? Just output in 2-channel PCM, that will be a nice pure signal for your AVR. And if you want, you can have the Omni process 2-speaker virtual surround from a 5.1 source like movie or game, by switching on SBX Mode, but your AVR would/should still be getting just a 2channel PCM signal (the surround processing would already be baked in to the sound).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Napalm,
> I feel like, if I wasn't tired, I could work out an answer for you.
> But anyway, why output Surround to two speakers? Just output in 2-channel PCM, that will be a nice pure signal for your AVR. And if you want, you can have the Omni process 2-speaker virtual surround from a 5.1 source like movie or game, by switching on SBX Mode, but your AVR would/should still be getting just a 2channel PCM signal (the surround processing would already be baked in to the sound).


 
 It was a case of when I first got it I just wanted to test it out. A large part of the reason for buying the Omni was DDL as on the Turtle Beach website it mentioned that it would be required for (I think it says many) games to produce surround on the DSS2.
  
 As I've said, I'm kind of new to the audio game and information isn't always easy to understand or comprehensively explained. I've found quite a few instances where knowledge is assumed when it comes to product descriptions. You don't realise you don't know something you need to know until you run into a problem if you know what I mean.


----------



## Zombie_X

Sure guys, pics will be at the bottom of the post.
  
 The adapter it self is a mini XLR spliced together with the Boom Pro's PC mic adapter. I then used glue heatshrink on them to fuse them. The result is a rock hard adapter. I was suing it a little while ago while playing BF4 with Change.


----------



## Stillhart

zombie_x said:


> Sure guys, pics will be at the bottom of the post.
> 
> The adapter it self is a mini XLR spliced together with the Boom Pro's PC mic adapter. I then used glue heatshrink on them to fuse them. The result is a rock hard adapter. I was suing it a little while ago while playing BF4 with Change.


 
  
 That's pretty sweet man, well done!


----------



## Zombie_X

stillhart said:


> That's pretty sweet man, well done!


 
  
 You're more than welcome to give this baby a spin. Let me know. I can make more if needed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes me want another Annie...

I know those with the K612, K/Q70x and K712s would probably be happy to nab those adapters. I know I would. Looks awesome. I don't know why anyone else hasn't thought to make these adapters for simple cable swapping.


----------



## Change is Good

The mic would be swinging all over the place...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why? It's a direct Mini XLR to 3.5mm female. With no loose cable in between.

Or is the K612's mini XLR different from the K/Q70x?


----------



## Change is Good

Im guessing you're talking about the K712, then. Because with my detachable mod on the k612, the interconnect hangs, resulting in a cable in between.

K612 in stock has no detachable cable option.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh... for you... but I mean for everyone else. Can't you just detach your mod from the headphone end, get one of these adapters from Zombie and use the Boom pro?

Or does the K612 NOT have a detachable cable to begin with? I didn't consider that...

edit: AWWW.... CRAP. That sucks...


I guess it's limited to the 70x and 712 then.


----------



## Change is Good

The housing where the cable entry is located isn't deep enough to drill for an interconnect to go there. That is why mine is hanging like it is.

Yup, sucks donkey balloons


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didn't realize it didn't have a detachable cable. Damn it AKG. That probably would've been the best option under $200... now they're stuck using the Antlion, or mods.


----------



## Change is Good

Get the K702 w/flat headband and some 712 pads. But that will run about $270


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, if I'm gonna get a headphone, it's gotta be the 400i.

The Crusher was spur of the moment, and while I like it a LOT, I find the bass sensation to be a bit limited in that it resonates mainly at 60hz, so music that jumps in bass frequencies will sound uneven due to the rumble only kicking in in such a narrow frequency (55-65hz mainly, IIRC, gotta test it with Sinegen). It really depends on how well the Crusher does for movies and games, mainly. I really, really like it, but that $100 could be used for future use on the 400i... so I may return the Crusher. I have to do quite a bit more testing, as I only tested it for like 30-45 minutes.



Zombie, you should consider making an adapter like that for the Hifiman connectors too. I have a feeling the 400i and 560 people (among the many HE400 and HE500 owners) would appreciate something like it. I think if I end up with the 400i, I'd REALLY wanna be able to attach the Boom Pro to it.

*edit: Oh wait... Hifimans are dual entry.... not sure how to go about making that work with the Boom Pro, so never mind...that would probably take some mod work and making one channel jump to the other cup... not worth it.*


----------



## Change is Good

Wouldnt the 400i have an entry on both sides like the other Hifimans?

Edit: I see you realized that while I was typing


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I edited it as soon as I posted it. Just beat me to the edit. I'm an idiot. :rolleyes:


----------



## Change is Good

You're not an idiot. You're just excited


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DAMMIT, CAN YOU BLAME ME. THE POSSIBILI*R*IES!


----------



## Change is Good

I sure don't!
  
 Anyway, since I happened to mismanage some funds tonight... I won't be able to do my next headphone purchase.
  
 I REALLY want someone to jump on this, because I believe it will be golden.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/SoundMAGIC-HP200-Premium-Folding-Headphones/dp/B00DJ61FHY
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CbwzpBjW-U
  
 That, with som Shure alcantara pads...
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Shure-HPAEC1540-Replacement-Alcantara-Headphones/dp/B00HXAV0UY
  
 And, of course, the BoomPro...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Coincidentally, the 1840 pads fit over the Turtle Beach Z11's cups relatively well, and sounding similar to the stock pads, though I needed just a little tape to keep the 1840 pads from sliding off.

I think for $35, if I could manage to score some non-defective Z11s... they'd be one of my fave sub-$100 headphones.... I really liked their dry, sharp sound, spacious soundstage, and fast, strong bass. Like cheap 990s without the treble of doom.

I kinda wish I didn't rip off the felt on the 1840 pads, ah well.

The Z11's problem is the in line volume control. I had to press down on it so the channels would be even. I guess for the price of entry, they'd be a good candidate for a cheap recable, though no need for the Boom Pro, as it already has a boom mic.

Seriously, it's a VERY nice, crisp sounding headset. I was quite surprised.

edit: The Skullcandy Crusher's main range for bass driver reaction is at 18hz-19.5hz and between 50-65hz. At 55hz, it's at it's strongest. You can hear the driver work all the way up to 200hz, adding just a hint of warmth compared to it being at it's lowest setting. After about 200hz, all other frequencies sound exactly the same whether the bass is on max or minimal/off. This is why I say it doesn't hamper the music almost at all. The mids and treble sound exactly the same. Of course if the bass is set to medium or high, expect some added warmth under 200hz, and some potent cup rumble at 18-19.5 hz and 50-65hz.


----------



## Change is Good

I really hate this. Just like the last time I had the M500... something unfortunate happens... and I'm probably going to have to sell it, again, to make up for the financial loss. Sucks because I got these for a great deal that I know I won't come across, again.
  
 Life... it really does throw some curve balls at ya, doesn't it? Smh...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry to hear that bro.


----------



## Change is Good

It's all good, my friend. I'm a champ... I'll tough it out...


----------



## Change is Good

So you really returning the Crushers?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I'm reaaaaaaaaally enjoying them. That was just my train of thought from the brief impression because the range where the bass driver works is so narrow. i realize that's only a bad thing if you have the bass setting set too high. Having it set to 2 or halfway to 3 notches adds a euphoric amount of bass without it sounding to 'off' from the main driver's bass.

Not sure why the bass driver has a secondary 'reaction' point at 18-19.5 hz. Not much is ever gonna reach that down low, but still.... interesting.

I'll put it through it's paces before I make a decision.

I'm just surprised at how well balanced the main driver is otherwise. It's like Sennheiser level flat. The mids are pretty healthy.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah life is a 8itch sometimes... But we gotta pull through. I mean it's gonna get better and it's worth it. 

EDIT - Woohoo I am a supremus now ;D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah life is a 8itch sometimes... But we gotta pull through. I mean it's gonna get better and it's worth it.
> 
> EDIT - Woohoo I am a supremus now ;D




I've been treating you like a vet for like ever, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I'm reaaaaaaaaally enjoying them. That was just my train of thought from the brief impression because the range where the bass driver works is so narrow. i realize that's only a bad thing if you have the bass setting set too high. Having it set to 2 or halfway to 3 notches adds a euphoric amount of bass without it sounding to 'off' from the main driver's bass.
> 
> Not sure why the bass driver has a secondary 'reaction' point at 18-19.5 hz. Not much is ever gonna reach that down low, but still.... interesting.
> 
> ...


 
  
 True dat! We'll just have to wait for the final outcome, I guess...
  
  


conquerator2 said:


> Yeah life is a 8itch sometimes... But we gotta pull through. I mean it's gonna get better and it's worth it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea, you're right. Things _will_ get greater later...
  
 And, you know, it's actually good to have a hobby like this. At times like these, though very disheartening, can easily be temporarily fixed with the sale of a piece of gear.
  
 And congrats!!! You deserve it!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Inf1ZcU66mk[/VIDEO]

This song, scared the CRAP out of me when I first heard it, and I had the bass set to half way.

The bass hits RIGHT at the Crusher's reaction point (starting at 14 seconds in)..., and since it constantly hits that point, releases, then hits again... it was... an experience.

Using this song as a reference for where to put the bass setting, I feel 2 notches is ideal. There are 8 in total, so imagine just how much more the bass driver can engage...


----------



## Change is Good

I really wish I didn't have to sell the M500, man. I was going to include it with the K612 so you can send back with the E12 when the time came. I really wanted you to experience its awesomeness...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> This song, scared the CRAP out of me when I first heard it, and I had the bass set to half way.
> 
> The bass hits RIGHT at the Crusher's reaction point (starting at 14 seconds in)..., and since it constantly hits that point, releases, then hits again... it was... an experience.
> 
> Using this song as a reference for where to put the bass setting, I feel 2 notches is ideal. There are 8 in total, so imagine just how much more the bass driver can engage...


 
  
 Wow...
  
 I had the K612s when you posted this. I love how present that sub bass is on these _with the K702 pads_. Real nice extension, I must say!
  
 Then, I put on my XBA-H3s... and *WOW*!!! Where are my 1540s... *walks away*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Letting go of headphones you enjoy is never easy. Trust me... I've lost pieces of my soul time and time again. But the D7000 hurt the most...twice.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Letting go of headphones you enjoy is never easy. Trust me... I've lost pieces of my soul time and time again. But the D7000 hurt the most...twice.


 
  
 Tell me about it... especially the _twice_ part... smh
  
 In all honesty, though, I think you really should go back to your precious babies if the opportunity ever presents itself.
  


change is good said:


> Wow...
> 
> I had the K612s when you posted this. I love how present that sub bass is on these _with the K702 pads_. Real nice extension, I must say!
> 
> Then, I put on my XBA-H3s... and *WOW*!!! *Where are my 1540s... *walks away**


 
  
OMG!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so another observation on the Crusher. The first notch of the Bass setting isn't like sliding it all the way to the lowest position, yet it functions the same. The bass driver is essentially not doing anything until you get to the second notch. Lol, I like the Crusher at it's WEAKEST bass driver level. Anything more and it does get a bit ridiculous (though 3 notches can be satisfying at times), and anything less makes silences the bass driver...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Tell me about it... especially the _twice_ part... smh
> 
> In all honesty, though, I think you really should go back to your precious babies if the opportunity ever presents itself.
> 
> ...




Lol I missed this.

What happened to your 1540s? I didn't realize you let those go...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so another observation on the Crusher. The first notch of the Bass setting isn't like sliding it all the way to the lowest position, yet it functions the same. The bass driver is essentially not doing anything until you get to the second notch. Lol, I like the Crusher at it's WEAKEST bass driver level. Anything more and it does get a bit ridiculous (though 3 notches can be satisfying at times), and anything less makes silences the bass driver...


 
  
_Sounds_ like you're having fun, my friend lol
  
 With that said, I'll end my 2000th post by saying goodnight and enjoy! Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

G'night mangz. I'll probably get on CoD to test these babies out when I get home. I expect hilarity.


----------



## conquerator2

Why... why... WHY DO THE MSTAGE DRIVERS KEEP F'ING ME UP?!
 Its been like this forever. They just don't get recognized every other time! It's pure random and I've determined it is down to my luck as I've tried literary everything everything short of a complete Windows re-install... many times.
  
 Solution - power it on, off and on again... It almost always gets recognized the second time around... What?!
  





 
  
 I think I need some head-fi now... And I'll try that song MLE posted 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And test the station on 1/2 volume.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh no. Conquer, I mean that the Skullcandy Crusher's bass driver kicks in REAL strongly during the song's 50-60hz sections. The song itself doesn't have some weird volume spikes.

The more I'm using the Crusher... I'm starting to get bass headaches. DAMMIT. I was hoping that wouldn't happen. I should've expected it. The bass kicks in right at the mid bass... which is my weakness, but I hoped it was a problem i had with standard drivers and not this... unorthodox bass driver.

Ah well... doesn't bode well... I hate my being so headache-prone.


----------



## conquerator2

Oh well I know what you mean. Not with bass but I have the same issue in the treble's sibilance region... I am extra sensitive to that so when a headphone is edgy there it's a no-go. Orthodynamics don't apply for some reason as they are simply effortless and don't have this issue [well at least those I've heard]. K612 Pros are my limit. Anything more and that'd be too much.
 But I ironically love airy and extended highs 
  
 Regardless, thanks for the kind words guys. And good luck!
 I'll be waiting for the 560


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's weird, it's not like I'm completely adverse to mid bass. Hell, i can take all that the Pro 900 dishes out, and that one packs a WALLOP. Yet, headphones like the Q701 managed to annoy me with it's mid bass.

I'm not certain it's the mid bass on the crushers. It may be it's clamp that's bugging me. It doesn't clamp much, but it does clamp, and that paired with pleather pads doesn't exactly make me jump with joy at it's comfort.

I'll stretch them out for a period and see if that helps.


----------



## NamelessPFG

conquerator2 said:


> Oh well I know what you mean. Not with bass but I have the same issue in the treble's sibilance region... I am extra sensitive to that so when a headphone is edgy there it's a no-go. Orthodynamics don't apply for some reason as they are simply effortless and don't have this issue [well at least those I've heard]. K612 Pros are my limit. Anything more and that'd be too much. But I ironically love airy and extended highs


 
  
 I kinda understand what you mean. Many dynamic headphones with emphasized treble can take on this piercing, needle-through-your-eardrums quality to the treble alongside having this weird texture/grain over it all, yet what a lot of people consider to be just the right amount of treble (MA900) is just diluted and lacking to me.
  
 But I'm mainly coming from Stax, where the treble is as effortless as it gets. Clear, detailed, even emphasized, but never piercing unless the recording's just that bad. Must be a planar thing (and electrostatic drivers are planar, they just don't use magnetic force).
  
 I don't recall if MLE's HE-400 had quite the same effortlessness to it; I was mainly struck by the realization that it sounded an awful lot like what I recalled of the SR-202/SRM-212 combo, including its midrange and texture weaknesses. Haven't heard any other orthos yet, sadly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SR407 had easily the best treble I've ever heard and it's bright. It's just sooooo clean and precise... it didn't fatigue me one bit.

The problem with the HE400 is just that the treble is sooooo emphasized over the upper midrange, it's not easy to grasp. I still vouch for the HE-400 being one of those headphones that can be downright magical, but on certian things, it simply does not sound right.

Nameless, I think you'd be a fan of the HE-4, definitely. It's a speedy, and airy headphone, with very well extended treble without it being overwhelming. The mids are a little recessed, but it's in the same vein as the DT880, where it's due to the bass being just slightly more elevated, and not some veiled scoop like the upper mids of the HE-400. Hell, there are quite a few people who prefer the HE-4 to the HE-500, and even the HE-6.


----------



## benbenkr

You know MLE, from what you've been saying about the Skullcandy Crusher so far.. it sounds very familiar to the Sony Pulse Elite. Both have a bass driver and both are quite neutral in tonality... hmmm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I've seen various posts online that mention the two. Thebone person who directly compared though says the Crusher sounds higher in quality, and the Pulse has more bass. I in all honesty have no idea who the hell would ever want more bass than the Crusher provides. The bass output is enough to turn your brain into mush., and im referring to in low medium settings.

But yeah, I'll more than likely return these and consider them incompatible with my stupid head. I have full blown headache now...


----------



## conquerator2

namelesspfg said:


> I kinda understand what you mean. Many dynamic headphones with emphasized treble can take on this piercing, needle-through-your-eardrums quality to the treble alongside having this weird texture/grain over it all, yet what a lot of people consider to be just the right amount of treble (MA900) is just diluted and lacking to me.
> 
> But I'm mainly coming from Stax, where the treble is as effortless as it gets. Clear, detailed, even emphasized, but never piercing unless the recording's just that bad. Must be a planar thing (and electrostatic drivers are planar, they just don't use magnetic force).
> 
> I don't recall if MLE's HE-400 had quite the same effortlessness to it; I was mainly struck by the realization that it sounded an awful lot like what I recalled of the SR-202/SRM-212 combo, including its midrange and texture weaknesses. Haven't heard any other orthos yet, sadly.


 
  
 Well MA900 for me is a very special headphone. It is very warm and musical. It has a moderately extended, punchy bass and a very clear and somewhat forward midrange with the highs being okay in the 7-8khz region where the sibilance occurs but absolutely lacking sparkle in the air and extension regions [6-7khz, 10 - 16khz].
 I love it as a warm, fun sounding headphone. Very smooth and enjoyable. It is very full and airy in the midrange but comparatively thin in the treble but that doesn't prevent one from enjoying it 
 I got it for 150$ and at that price I can't complain.
  
 The K612 on the other hand is very reference sounding. I'd say it is very even across the whole frequency, though it does lack the very air and openness I'd love to have and expect from a fully-opened headphone. Also, it can be a bit rough in the treble [admittedly, there are very few dynamics that do the treble just right, it's usually either a bit rough or too smooth :/] It is a very competent headphone, especially for 200$. It is way better than that and I'll be writing a review one day too. [I'll put it in the review section as well as in my thread]. As my very first AKG headphone I was very impressed indeed. Provided it likes a lot of power [though it does sound decent from lesser sources] and a warm source might also help to shave some edge off the highs.
  
 I find them both complementary to one another, I use the K612 for gaming and desktop listening and the MA900 when I am outside or feeling smooth.
  
 Neutral [meaning evenly extended everywhere, no overpowering frequencies, clear], spacious headphones being my preference. It could be a bit warm or bright... as long as it has good details, separation, imaging and PRaT, it's a go. I kinda like sound whoring 
 So, em, I am eyeing the 560. Being tremendously happy with the 6 before, just not having the equipment to fully utilize its potential... Well, at least more so than I could the 6 back then... Well, you don't fully appreciate something 'till it's gone, right?


----------



## conquerator2

Hey, it's me again.
  
 Well, I've tested the advice given with the station and decreasing the volume on it.
 I've put it into practice and decreased the volume on the DSS station from 100 to around 80 [and subsequently increased the volume on the Mstage from -7 to 0] and then I've tried decreasing down to 60/50/40 - it's hard to judge as there's no indicator on the volume knob [and again increased the Mstage volume from 0 to 3 or 6 - still at around 60% so plenty of headroom].
 I've put the K612 on and tested the explosions at 100 again and it distorted heavily... So you know I've lowered the Station's volume down to 80 and 50... Not that it matters as long as you lower it [hint hint] and so the outcome, well, I suppose you probably know...
  





  
 I am such a ******* idiot... And to think I've sold my... I am gonna kill myself now... Why didn't I try that earlier?! I was mindlessly following the "keep the source maxed out" advice, without taking the source's amplification prowess into account... Kill me!
 But I am at least happy I've found the culprit and fixed the single thing I hated and attributed to headphones... No wonder it only happened with the DSS and not with my PC's USB out! There's no amp in there -_-


----------



## Chubtoad

Hey zombie, just gonna put this out there but I am very interested in one of those adapters. Let me know about pricing and shipping costs. I live in Canada.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Hey, it's me again.
> 
> Well, I've tested the advice given with the station and decreasing the volume on it.
> I've put it into practice and decreased the volume on the DSS station from 100 to around 80 [and subsequently increased the volume on the Mstage from -7 to 0] and then I've tried decreasing down to 60/50/40 - it's hard to judge as there's no indicator on the volume knob [and again increased the Mstage volume from 0 to 3 or 6 - still at around 60% so plenty of headroom].
> ...




Ah dude. Im sorry I didn't reply to this. Yeah, my first TWO Mixamps and the Recon 3D usb didnt have a problem with distortion with tbe voljme maxed, but all my other mixamps afterwards, I had to lower the volume to around 60/70% to keep the devices from distorting. Im sorry. I shouldve told you to try that first. 

I haven't tried it with this Mixamp 5.8, as I just run my headphones off it, without amping. But the last two Mixamp Pros distorted quite frequently at max master volume.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Ah dude. Im sorry I didn't reply to this. Yeah, my first TWO Mixamps and the Recon 3D usb didnt have a problem with distortion with tbe voljme maxed, but all my other mixamps afterwards, I had to lower the volume to around 60/70% to keep the devices from distorting. Im sorry. I shouldve told you to try that first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey it's alright. Shame I never got to hear the sub-bass with the HE-6 [I guess I've been using it maxed out all the time and attributing the distortion to the headphone] but at least I will with the 560 :]
 No harm done mate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I am totally gonna do a K612-MA900-HE560 comparison though [well however brief], obviously not in the SQ sense, but I'll take each's strengths [MA900 midrange and soundstage size + K612 imaging and bass/treble extension]
  
 Are you set on returning the Crushers? Any future plans regarding HPs?


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> This song, scared the CRAP out of me when I first heard it, and I had the bass set to half way.
> 
> The bass hits RIGHT at the Crusher's reaction point (starting at 14 seconds in)..., and since it constantly hits that point, releases, then hits again... it was... an experience.
> 
> Using this song as a reference for where to put the bass setting, I feel 2 notches is ideal. There are 8 in total, so imagine just how much more the bass driver can engage...


 
  
 Wow, that song sounds FANTASTIC on the X1's...it makes my eyeballs wobble.  Surprisingly, the modded Q701 does it justice, though that snare/handclap thing is almost painfully sharp on the Q.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> Hey, it's me again.
> 
> Well, I've tested the advice given with the station and decreasing the volume on it.
> I've put it into practice and decreased the volume on the DSS station from 100 to around 80 [and subsequently increased the volume on the Mstage from -7 to 0] and then I've tried decreasing down to 60/50/40 - it's hard to judge as there's no indicator on the volume knob [and again increased the Mstage volume from 0 to 3 or 6 - still at around 60% so plenty of headroom].
> ...


 
 Had I seen this post (edit: the post describing the problem) I may have been able to offer speculative reasoning from my experience with guitars. Sounds like what would happen when you overdrive an input on a guitar amp. Sorry I was too late to help.


----------



## conquerator2

None of you were late  I sold the HE-6 months ago and it was for the best probably. It helped me realize that my desktop setup wasn't up to par either :]
  
 Regardless, #AnyK612ProUser - at least you guys who are using SS amps with them - are yo finding them a bit sibilant? Like to my ears the 7 - 8 khz region seems to be either emphasized or not rolled-off at all... They do sound a bit edgy with bright music but it's just the sibilant notes mostly.


----------



## zx6guy

I’m considering a PS4 but I see people are having chat problems using the Mixamp with it. Has this been solved? If so can someone please post a link to a solution?


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> None of you were late  I sold the HE-6 months ago and it was for the best probably. It helped me realize that my desktop setup wasn't up to par either :]
> 
> Regardless, #AnyK612ProUser - at least you guys who are using SS amps with them - are yo finding them a bit sibilant? Like to my ears the 7 - 8 khz region seems to be either emphasized or not rolled-off at all... They do sound a bit edgy with bright music but it's just the sibilant notes mostly.


 

 I found the K612 a bit sibilant on certain tubes and when hooked up to certain dacs(or even different drivers on a dac or soundcard). I have managed to get the piercing aspect of the sibilance eliminated though without any EQ. My biggest complaint about the K612 is how picky and sensitive the headphone is and that the treble can be a bit piercing on some systems.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> I found the K612 a bit sibilant on certain tubes and when hooked up to certain dacs. I have managed to get the piercing aspect of the sibilance eliminated though. *My biggest complaint about the K612 is how picky and sensitive the headphone is and that the treble can be a bit piercing on some systems.*


 
 Pretty much though it is exceptional with instrumental music...
 I guess the effortlessness in the treble is just hard to reproduce for dynamic headphones


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Pretty much though it is exceptional with instrumental music...
> I guess the effortlessness in the treble is just hard to reproduce for dynamic headphones


 

 Yes it is, the treble is quite effortless with the right synergy though. I have a dynamic headphone that is quite effortless in treble and it's a bright sucker. My MB Quart QP 220 is the brightest headphone I have yet I find it non-fatiguing and basically grain-free and it's not piercing at all to me. It is a little too bright though as it doesn't sound quite right on some songs. I do find treble reproduction problematic on most dynamics though.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> Yes it is, the treble is quite effortless with the right synergy though. I have a dynamic headphone that is quite effortless in treble and it's a bright sucker. My MB Quart QP 220 is the brightest headphone I have yet I find it non-fatiguing and basically grain-free and it's not piercing at all to me. It is a little too bright though as it doesn't sound quite right on some songs. I do find treble reproduction problematic on most dynamics though.


 
 Yes it is perhaps Mstage [which runs as hot as the Audio GD gears  class-A I guess...] isn't the right match, though it also largely depend on the mastering of a particular song... They are very revealing headphones indeed [for better or for worse].
 Funnily enough with games it's  not an issue and the sibilance is much less obvious.


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Yes it is perhaps Mstage [which runs as hot as the Audio GD gears  class-A I guess...] isn't the right match, though it also largely depend on the mastering of a particular song... They are very revealing headphones indeed [for better or for worse].
> Funnily enough with games it's  not an issue and the sibilance is much less obvious.


 
 Maybe, they do react more noticeably to slight changes in the audio chain than my other headphones. Some songs are problematic, mine still get sibilant and bright on hotly or badly recorded recordings, but luckily aren't fatiguing anymore. I've come across some very sibilant recordings in some games.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> Maybe, they do react more noticeably to slight changes in the audio chain than my other headphones. Some songs are problematic, mine still get sibilant and bright on hotly or badly recorded recordings, but luckily aren't fatiguing anymore. I've come across some very sibilant recordings in some games.


 
 It's only the sibilance that bothers me with most vocals...


----------



## HiCZoK

edit: nvm


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> It's only the sibilance that bothers me with most vocals...


 

 So the sibilance is problematic on most vocals?


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> So the sibilance is problematic on most vocals?


 
 Yes.


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Yes.


 
 It shouldn't be like that with most vocals, only some vocals. It sounds like either the system isn't smooth enough in the treble and midrange for the headphone and/or you are extra sensitive to the headphones presentation of sibilance.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> It shouldn't be like that with most vocals, only some vocals. It sounds like either the system isn't smooth enough in the treble and midrange for the headphone and/or you are extra sensitive to the headphones presentation of sibilance.


 
 Well, we are talking all bright recordings, where the sibilance would already be pronounced as is.
 The Mstage likes to put the vocals upfront + if the recording is bright it really can get a bit annoying.
 But I was exaggerating, it's not nearly as bad as I made it sound.
 It's just that the K612 is probably the most revealing headphone I've had and maybe it's not best pals with my setup, I dunno.
 I still love it as it does a lot of good and the sibilance is down to the mastering. Period


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Well, we are talking all bright recordings, where the sibilance would already be pronounced as is.
> The Mstage likes to put the vocals upfront + if the recording is bright it really can get a bit annoying.
> But I was exaggerating, it's not nearly as bad as I made it sound.
> It's just that the K612 is probably the most revealing headphone I've had and maybe it's not best pals with my setup, I dunno.
> I still love it as it does a lot of good and the sibilance is down to the mastering. Period


 

 That is true. Bad or hot recordings do sound rather unpleasant on revealing headphones. My amp puts vocals upfront as well. With revealing headphones tweaking the audio chain to your preferences can be a pain. So it's just a revealing headphone revealing flaws.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Hey, it's me again.
> 
> Well, I've tested the advice given with the station and decreasing the volume on it.
> I've put it into practice and decreased the volume on the DSS station from 100 to around 80...
> ...




I knew it, sleepy Ev is a genius! Glad you found an answer, cuz it seemed off.
By the same token of not assuming things, please stop calling your base station a DSS. The only similarity is they both use Dolby Headphone mode 2 processing (oh, and maybe a brand name), if you keep calling your other base station product that you're gonna confuse and misinform other people. They probably have a whole different DAC, Amp, power supply, features, etc, so it's NOT a DSS.

But yeah, glad you found a (free & instant) solution!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I knew it, sleepy Ev is a genius! Glad you found an answer, cuz it seemed off.
> By the same token of not assuming things, please stop calling your base station a DSS. The only similarity is they both use Dolby Headphone mode 2 processing (oh, and maybe a brand name), if you keep calling your other base station product that you're gonna confuse and misinform other people. They probably have a whole different DAC, Amp, power supply, features, etc, so it's NOT a DSS.
> 
> But yeah, glad you found a (free & instant) solution!


 
 Ok, but they probably [I assumed...] use similar parts... Last time I checked, this very station was around 100 USD [http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/transmitters-parts/rf-transmitter-type-a/74]
 But you're right, it is a transmitter station. I'll make sure to differentiate between the two.


----------



## Zombie_X

If anyone else is interested in trying the K240/K702/Q701 to Boom Pro adapter I made, let me know. I'll order more parts and make up a few for people to test. With further tweaking, I should be able to make it only 1" long. 
  
 I'll probably set up a demo program with the ones I'll make. Then if anyone is interested in keeping one, they just pay the cost of the parts. So probably $4 each.
  
 I'll keep everyone informed of course.


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> If anyone else is interested in trying the K240/K702/Q701 to Boom Pro adapter I made, let me know. I'll order more parts and make up a few for people to test. With further tweaking, I should be able to make it only 1" long.
> 
> I'll probably set up a demo program with the ones I'll make. Then if anyone is interested in keeping one, they just pay the cost of the parts. So probably $4 each.
> 
> I'll keep everyone informed of course.


 
 Add me mrmartinvegas on ps4..i will get bf4 on Tuesday and show you how it's done..i will be starting with the crappy guns again with iron sights..i hate iron sights! p.s you tubes a bit crap on ps4..ended up just watching it on pc instead!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> i will be starting with the crappy guns again with iron sights..i hate iron sights!


 
 Personally prefer iron sites on some guns. To each his own I guess.


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> Personally prefer iron sites on some guns. To each his own I guess.


 

 I take them off as fast as I can..i only put angled grip and laser with a cobra sight flash hider on my guns..no compensators or muzzle breaks!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I tend to decide what attachments to use on a gun by gun basis.
  
 On an unrelated note, think I'm going to buy a Mixamp Pro and Sennheiser PC 360's. I will give myself a couple of days to mull it over, but I'm liking the idea of convenience and have long wanted to try Sennheisers. It will also add to my experience of the available surround solutions as I've already got the DSS2 and a SB Omni. Gaining more experience can only be a good thing (unless that experience is being molested by clowns).


----------



## Zombie_X

I try to remove them ASAP, but the only guns I ever keep the iron sight on are on Shotguns.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Still loving the Phillips X1. Great buy at $150. Can't wait for the Phillips X2.


----------



## HiCZoK

Anyone tried Sony Wireless Stereo Headset 2.0 ? (named GOLD instead of 2.0 in USA) 
 I am yet to buy a ps4 but wondered how it would do on a pc until then ? I am sooooo tired of the cables, that I am willing to get a wireless solution and this seems to get positive reviews in 100$ price range. I have CAL! on my pc btw and xonar dg.
  
 thanks for opinion.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Ok, but they probably [I assumed...] use similar parts... Last time I checked, this very station was around 100 USD [http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/transmitters-parts/rf-transmitter-type-a/74]
> But you're right, it is a transmitter station. I'll make sure to differentiate between the two.



Ooh, thanks for the link, I happened to notice that now TB's Earforce Seven Audio Control Unit (7ACU) is now available separately... It was a very promising unit, just nobody hear tried it cuz we didn't care about the Seven headset. I'll have to double-check the specs, cuz it's cheaper than a Mixamp and I think it also allows chat/game audio balance easily (as well as more adjustments).

If it does, it basically makes the Mixamp obsolete.




zombie_x said:


> I try to remove them ASAP, but the only guns I ever keep the iron sight on are on Shotguns.



Can you put sniper scopes on shotguns in BF4? In BF3, you could do that and get a ridiculous range increase, more effective than a sniper and very OP.


----------



## EliteSpartan03

Zombie X, I would also be interested in the v moda mic adapter to test.  Just ordered some Q701s through amazon that will be here shortly.  I'm on xbox, same as my user name and ps4 as well: sweaterpuppies


----------



## iamstumper

@Zombie_X If this will work with a K712 then I'm interested as well in the v-moda mic adapter to test.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HEY I GOT DIBS ON THAT ADAPTER. 


So I woke up with an even stronger headache....

I can't even tell if it's the SK Crusher or if it's just one of those days. I went to sleep last night listening to them, and I really enjoy them. So this sucks.


----------



## papasmurf

http://www.head-fi.org/t/670454/pioneer-se-a1000-appreciation-club-sennheiser-hd-650-for-45/60
 Hey how about these headphones for gaming ? they cost only about 45$ and have big soundstage, but the PRICE is what im loooking at. Can someone tell me their opinions about these headphones?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> HEY I GOT DIBS ON THAT ADAPTER.
> 
> So I woke up with an even stronger headache....
> 
> I can't even tell if it's the SK Crusher or if it's just one of those days. I went to sleep last night listening to them, and I really enjoy them. So this sucks.


 
  
 I have to say that they were accurately named. I don't have a wide head, evident by the fact that AT wing headphones slide down the side of my noggin, and the Crushers still put out some serious clamping force. I can understand why they were designed like that; it's how they get a strong seal and maintain their bass response. But overall I wasn't a fan of their comfort. And your head is a bit larger than mine, MLE, so chances are decent that they could be applying too much pressure. You can always try the good ole' headband stretching trick.
  


papasmurf said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/670454/pioneer-se-a1000-appreciation-club-sennheiser-hd-650-for-45/60
> Hey how about these headphones for gaming ? they cost only about 45$ and have big soundstage, but the PRICE is what im loooking at. Can someone tell me their opinions about these headphones?


 
  
 I had the SE-A1000 for a while. I really enjoyed the sound. I didn't like the comfort. The elastic that runs through the headband is too loose. I would have had to modify the band to have more resistance. But as far as sound quality, they were very nice and clear with a pretty wide soundstage, especially considering the price. I picked them up for $30 when Best Buy was clearing them out of the Magnolia stores, but ended up returning them simply because they didn't sit on my head properly (same issue I have with AT wings, it slid around) and it didn't achieve a good seal so the sound was inconsistent for me.
  
 The comfort issues vary from person to person, and I think it makes a nice gaming headphone if you can get it to fit properly. I'd say pick it up and try it out. Also, the 10' cord is great in some cases, annoying in others.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did. They definitely clamp a lot less. I'm gonna wait until I'm completely headache free before I put them on again and see if that was my issue.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> HEY I GOT DIBS ON THAT ADAPTER.




Wait... you got an AKG?!?


----------



## AxelCloris

So my V-Moda XS was supposed to be delivered on Saturday, but I didn't realize that there would be a notice in my mailbox stating that the house was vacant. The deliverer didn't drop them off, classified them as undeliverable, and marked them for return to the sender. I contacted the postal service and requested re-delivery, we'll see if they do or if I have to wait for it to get back to V-Moda, then pay shipping again to get it back out to me. Bah.
  
 Currently everything is still in boxes at the new place, but the awesome news is that my wife and I will be setting up the office soon. Once we do then I can get back into my gaming again. ESO early access launched yesterday and I haven't been able to play since we're unpacking everything.
  
 And just in case anyone is curious, I'll be beta testing a new Geek Out (100mW), specifically designed for IEMs and highly sensitive headphones. I'm going to try gaming with the Razer software since I can't use any external devices to create the surround effect. I'm also contemplating installing the demo for the Out Of Your Head software and seeing how that handles gaming and positional queues. I imagine it's more for music and movies, but could potentially prove useful for gamers as well. Anything that I'm allowed to report about the GO 100 and gaming I'll post here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Wait... you got an AKG?!?




No, but I'd like it just in case.


----------



## Change is Good

Hahahahaha!!! "Just in case"

Prolly plannin' ahead on some Annies as we speak... lol


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Hahahahaha!!! "Just in case"
> 
> Prolly plannin' ahead on some Annies as we speak... lol


 
 What are Annies, precious? *coughs* Gollum, Gollum.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Hahahahaha!!! "Just in case"
> 
> Prolly plannin' ahead on some Annies as we speak... lol




Nah, if im gonna make a purchase of a few hundred dollars, its gonna be the 400i, and/or a good soundbar.

I am lacking in a good open headphone though. 

The 400i... I needs it. PRECIOUSSSSSS


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, if im gonna make a purchase of a few hundred dollars, its gonna be the 400i, and/or a good soundbar.
> 
> I am lacking in a good open headphone though.
> 
> ...


 
 You won't know till the impressions start rolling


----------



## Change is Good

Unless Hifiman somehow magically improved the soundstage on their open headphones... I'll be passing.

And... you did say you want first dibs on an adapter "just in case," right? You're getting one, dude. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're in denial lol


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Unless Hifiman somehow magically improved the soundstage on their open headphones... I'll be passing.
> 
> And... you did say you want first dibs on an adapter "just in case," right? You're getting one, dude. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. You're in denial lol


 
 Didn't they improve it somewhat with the 560? I mean that's what I've read...


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Didn't they improve it somewhat with the 560? I mean that's what I've read...




If its only "somewhat," I'll definitely be passing...

Sorry, but I'm a soundstage nut when it comes to open headphones


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I saw an ad for PSB headphones at the side of my screen and investigated. Anyone have experience or opinions? They have a detachable cable too, so it looks like the BoomPro would be an option.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> If its only "somewhat," I'll definitely be passing...
> 
> Sorry, but I'm a soundstage but when regarding to open headphones.


 
 As a soundstage guy I totally understand that.
 I hate congested soundstage [closed headphones...] but I can take a moderately sized  soundstage if it is 1] expansive 2] airy 3] well separated.and 4] well imaged.
 The K612 don't have a large stage IMO, but it is big enough, well separated, mostly expansive  and has good imaging [3/4]
 The 560 now ticks all 4, with noticeably improved imaging, so I think I'll be happy there. I never found the SS of the HE-6 troublesome, even if it wasn't too great, the separation, air and spaciousness more than make up for it IMO. Talking purely soundstage, YMMV.
  
 This is not final until they arrive at the doorstep of course I am just following other people's impressions.


----------



## Stillhart

So the ATH-M50 is on sale like everywhere the last couple days.  Thay're now down to $75 for a refurb (with 1-year warranty).  Are these worth picking up?  I know there's a new one out, but a $200 can for $75 seems like it might be worth checking out...


----------



## Change is Good

Conq, you have no idea what I went through to find a decent pair of closed headphones and IEMs because of soundstage. I think I'm quite happy with the coices I have, now, though.

When it comes to open headphones, however, I hold high standards. The soundstage size is critical because it, actually, is the sole purpose of me having an open headphone... for a nice, open, "out of head" experience. True, the K612's soundstage is not massive... but good enough for some. In stock form, it's quite similar in width and depth to that of the SRH1840. Add some angled pads, however, and the soundstage noticeably increases and compares to the likes of the other AKGs... which inevitably made them keepers, for me.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Conq, you have no idea what I went through to find a decent pair of closed headphones and IEMs because of soundstage. I think I'm quite happy with those choices.
> 
> When it comes to open headphones, however, I hold high standards. The soundstage size is critical because it, actually, is the sole purpose of me having an open headphone... for a nice, open, "out of head" experience.
> 
> And, true, the K612's soundstage is not massive... but good enough. In stock form, it's quite similar in width and depth to that of the SRH1840. Add some angled pads, however, and the soundstage noticeably increases and compares to the likes of the other AKGs.


 
 Yeah, well, I value all the expects I've mentioned equally and from what I've read the 560 does very little wrong.
 I am actually thinking the soundstage might be good,
 As said, I will definitely do a K612-560 comparison so if you're in doubts, I just might chime in, right?


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, well, I value all the expects I've mentioned equally and from what I've read the 560 does very little wrong.
> I am actually thinking the soundstage might be good,
> As said, I will definitely do a K612-560 comparison so if you're in doubts, I just might chime in, right?




You can chime in... but I'all make sure to be absent on that day. Same way I plan on being absent when Axel sends out the T1 on tour.

No no no... that bug won't be biting me, again! Lol. It's a reason why I sometimes get in financial binds... 

PS: Give me some time to edit my posts!


----------



## kcazbarach

stillhart said:


> So the ATH-M50 is on sale like everywhere the last couple days.  Thay're now down to $75 for a refurb (with 1-year warranty).  Are these worth picking up?  I know there's a new one out, but a $200 can for $75 seems like it might be worth checking out...




They werent terrible for me. I used them to play silent hill 2 early last year and i enoyed them. But for competitive play, theyre not gonna work and they are
Mediocre in soundstage compared to a lot of the open headphones that mad lust has reviewed. Comfort also depends on the person. Especially the pleather

Music wise, i thought they were a good all arounder.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> So the ATH-M50 is on sale like everywhere the last couple days.  Thay're now down to $75 for a refurb (with 1-year warranty).  Are these worth picking up?  I know there's a new one out, but a $200 can for $75 seems like it might be worth checking out...




Speaking of that deadly bug... 

Anyone have any antibiotics for my man, here?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Speaking of that deadly bug...
> 
> Anyone have any antibiotics for my man, here?


 
 I've heard there's no cure yet. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 YOU MUST SUCCUMB!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> You can chime in... but I'all make sure to be absent on that day. Same way I plan on being absent when Axel sends out the T1 on tour.
> 
> No no no... that bug won't be biting me, again! Lol. It's the reason why I keep getting in financial binds...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I know your address. I can storm up to your front door, disguised as a pizza delivery guy, and use that to get inside your house and force the T1 over your ear canals.


----------



## TiTaN

napalmhardcore said:


> I tend to decide what attachments to use on a gun by gun basis.
> 
> On an unrelated note, think I'm going to buy a Mixamp Pro and Sennheiser PC 360's. I will give myself a couple of days to mull it over, but I'm liking the idea of convenience and have long wanted to try Sennheisers. It will also add to my experience of the available surround solutions as I've already got the DSS2 and a SB Omni. Gaining more experience can only be a good thing (unless that experience is being molested by clowns).


 
  
 As someone who has personally tested the HD598, AD700, X1, MA900 and Q701, the PC360 are absolutely terrible, and all of these were tested with a Mixamp pro (which I love btw). I couldn't believe after using the aforementioned headphones, all of which were great in their own ways, how muddy, dark and terrible the PC360 sounded. I ended up returning all of the above except for the AD700, which I had been using for a couple years, as I simply couldn't justify the $200+ purchase when the AD700 were as good or better than they were for my main purpose, gaming.
  
 The X1 were my favorite all-rounder and I kept them longest before returning them and if I'd gotten in on the $150 deal I would absolutely have kept them, and beyond the fit and price I got the MA900 for, I'd have also kept them and $150 is about the sweet spot for those also IMO. The Q701 yearned for a better amp than I had and wasn't willing to purchase at the time, and they were easily the least comfortable due to the bumps.
  
 The HD598 were great for pretty much everything, a solid B all-around but not necessarily an A in anything, and those were returned in favor of the AD700 again, due to the price and because they didn't improve on the gaming prowess of the AD700.
  
  
 That said, can anyone truly recommend a pair that is better for (competitive) gaming than the AD700 that aren't astronomically priced? I'm still looking for a good deal to grab another pair of X1's, but haven't tried any open beyers or AKG's other than the K/Q701's.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Speaking of that deadly bug...
> 
> Anyone have any antibiotics for my man, here?


 
  
 I thought I was doing a really good job of not buying expensive desktop amps...  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I thought the M50 might be a good portable for travelling.  I don't really want to use open headphones on an airplane and I don't super want to travel with big fragile $200+ cans anyhow.  But I'm worried that my $200+ headphones have spoiled me for $75 headphones.  lol
  
 But you're right.  If I'm spending any more money right now, it'll be on an amp.  There will always be another super sale when I'm ready to get another pair of headphones.


----------



## conquerator2

titan said:


> As someone who has personally tested the HD598, AD700, X1, MA900 and Q701, the PC360 are absolutely terrible, and all of these were tested with a Mixamp pro (which I love btw). I couldn't believe after using the aforementioned headphones, all of which were great in their own ways, how muddy, dark and terrible the PC360 sounded. I ended up returning all of the above except for the AD700, which I had been using for a couple years, as I simply couldn't justify the $200+ purchase when the AD700 were as good or better than they were for my main purpose, gaming.
> 
> The X1 were my favorite all-rounder and I kept them longest before returning them and if I'd gotten in on the $150 deal I would absolutely have kept them, and beyond the fit and price I got the MA900 for, I'd have also kept them and $150 is about the sweet spot for those also IMO. The Q701 yearned for a better amp than I had and wasn't willing to purchase at the time, and they were easily the least comfortable due to the bumps.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think you nailed pretty much every great budget-friendly open over-ear headphone there is.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I thought I was doing a really good job of not buying expensive desktop amps...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The discontinued V-Moda M-80 is an excellent portable can and can be had for around $75 pretty easily. Then there's the V-Moda XS that just launched is just over $200 but built to travel extremely well. Personally I'd take the M-80 over the M50 any day of the week. From memory, the M50's soundstage isn't any better than the M-80 and the M-80 is a tank. Mine gets a lot of abuse at the office, getting knocked off my desk by coworkers and I just toss it naked into my drawer at the end of the work week. It's held up very well. But I do prefer a more balanced and neutral sound, and next to the M50 the M-80 can't stand up to the bass response of the AT can.
  
 I may have a slight bias for V-Moda's portable headphones as I love my M-80 and I anticipate I'll love my XS even more. The XS will be accompanying me on my three weeks of travel beginning Friday.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

titan said:


> As someone who has personally tested the HD598, AD700, X1, MA900 and Q701, the PC360 are absolutely terrible, and all of these were tested with a Mixamp pro (which I love btw). I couldn't believe after using the aforementioned headphones, all of which were great in their own ways, how muddy, dark and terrible the PC360 sounded. I ended up returning all of the above except for the AD700, which I had been using for a couple years, as I simply couldn't justify the $200+ purchase when the AD700 were as good or better than they were for my main purpose, gaming.
> 
> The X1 were my favorite all-rounder and I kept them longest before returning them and if I'd gotten in on the $150 deal I would absolutely have kept them, and beyond the fit and price I got the MA900 for, I'd have also kept them and $150 is about the sweet spot for those also IMO. The Q701 yearned for a better amp than I had and wasn't willing to purchase at the time, and they were easily the least comfortable due to the bumps.
> 
> ...


 
 Kind of disappointed to hear that as I thought I may have found a good solution. Although, taste being the subjective matter that it is, I'm still wondering whether or not to try them. One man's muddy is another man's balanced. Mind you my mind isn't made up and all the info and opinions I can get is helpful.


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> Kind of disappointed to hear that as I thought I may have found a good solution. Although, taste being the subjective matter that it is, I'm still wondering whether or not to try them. One man's muddy is another man's balanced. Mind you my mind isn't made up and all the info and opinions I can get is helpful.


 

 Sennheiser headsets sound better with a decent dac..when a game has really good music the sennheisers come to life..if you are wanting a headset with good surround sound for bf4 get the ad700 with the astro mixamp!


----------



## TiTaN

napalmhardcore said:


> Kind of disappointed to hear that as I thought I may have found a good solution. Although, taste being the subjective matter that it is, I'm still wondering whether or not to try them. One man's muddy is another man's balanced. Mind you my mind isn't made up and all the info and opinions I can get is helpful.


 
 I hope if you do try them out that either you do enjoy them more than I did or that I just happened across a dud pair, but I honestly was shocked based on the brand and the fact they supposedly have the HD5X5 drivers at how poorly they compared with the AD700 and X1's I had at the time I tried them.


----------



## TiTaN

martin vegas said:


> if you are wanting a headset with good surround sound for bf4 get the ad700 with the astro mixamp!


 
  
 Agreed 100%


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> Sennheiser headsets sound better with a decent dac..when a game has really good music the sennheisers come to life!


 
 Hmmm. I have a SB Omni on the PC side (would that be good enough?) but I wanted it for multi-platform gaming. Have to do some more thinking.


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> Hmmm. I have a SB Omni on the PC side (would that be good enough?) but I wanted it for multi-platform gaming. Have to do some more thinking.


 

 You could just get the hd558 and use the Omni!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> You could just get the hd558 and use the Omni!


 
 That brings me right back to the problem of a mic solution. Was hoping to sidestep that issue, that's why hearing that the PC 360's might not be too great when paired with a Mixamp is disappointing.


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> That brings me right back to the problem of a mic solution. Was hoping to sidestep that issue and why hearing that the PC 360's might not be too great when paired with a Mixamp is disappointing.




You can get a very good desktop microphone at around 50 - 70 bucks no?
I use a cardioid one around that price and its pretty amazing.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> You can get a very good desktop microphone at around 50 - 70 bucks no?
> I use a cardioid one around that price and its pretty amazing.


 
 Will be a pain for when kicking back playing console. Think I'll have to keep searching for a decent solution.


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> Will be a pain for when kicking back playing console. Think I'll have to keep searching for a decent solution.




Cardioid microphones pick up voices from within 10 meters or so, even other rooms but they don't isolate external noises that much. I have my ps3 and pc next to it and it doesn't pick much of any though.
The Blue Microphone Snowball is an amazing entry cardioid mic. Doesn't have the meaty voice like more expensive mics but it's so clear and picks up voice from anywhere like a champ!


----------



## papasmurf

axelcloris said:


> I had the SE-A1000 for a while. I really enjoyed the sound. I didn't like the comfort. The elastic that runs through the headband is too loose. I would have had to modify the band to have more resistance. But as far as sound quality, they were very nice and clear with a pretty wide soundstage, especially considering the price. I picked them up for $30 when Best Buy was clearing them out of the Magnolia stores, but ended up returning them simply because they didn't sit on my head properly (same issue I have with AT wings, it slid around) and it didn't achieve a good seal so the sound was inconsistent for me.
> 
> The comfort issues vary from person to person, and I think it makes a nice gaming headphone if you can get it to fit properly. I'd say pick it up and try it out. Also, the 10' cord is great in some cases, annoying in others.




You should try this modification for more comfort and bit more tigthend up feel http://www.head-fi.org/t/670454/pioneer-se-a1000-appreciation-club-sennheiser-hd-650-for-45#post_9575916

I think these headphones would be amazing for this 0-50$ price range


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> Cardioid microphones pick up voices from within 10 meters or so, even other rooms but they don't isolate external noises that much. I have my ps3 and pc next to it and it doesn't pick much of any though.
> The Blue Microphone Snowball is an amazing entry cardioid mic. Doesn't have the meaty voice like more expensive mics but it's so clear and picks up voice from anywhere like a champ!


 
 Was looking at that as a solution a while back but ruled it out due to how much background condenser mics pick up. Sorry I'm not deliberately being awkward, I promise


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> Was looking at that as a solution a while back but ruled it out due to how much background condenser mics pick up. Sorry I'm not deliberately being awkward, I promise


 
 It's okay :]
 I'd still recommend to give the Blue Snowball a try if you have a place with a good return policy.
 You might be pleasantly surprised :]


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> It's okay :]
> I'd still recommend to give the Blue Snowball a try if you have a place with a good return policy.
> You might be pleasantly surprised :]


 
 I play guitar and sing, so when I was looking at mics a while back I thought I may as well look at something a little bit more professional. Then I thought, I have my mixing desk so maybe I should be looking for something with XLR instead, then thought but that would mean having to connect my mixing desk whenever I want to use it for chat. I then thought, maybe I should get two mics... That's when I stopped looking lol.


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> I play guitar and sing, so when I was looking at mics a while back I thought I may as well look at something a little bit more professional. Then I thought, I have my mixing desk so maybe I should be looking for something with XLR instead, then thought but that would mean having to connect my mixing desk whenever I want to use it for chat. I then thought, maybe I should get two mics... That's when I stopped looking lol.


 
 Blue Snowball is USB. I find the integrated DAC decent enough for voices [I mean it sounds clear so... no complaints? ]


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> The discontinued V-Moda M-80 is an excellent portable can and can be had for around $75 pretty easily. Then there's the V-Moda XS that just launched is just over $200 but built to travel extremely well. Personally I'd take the M-80 over the M50 any day of the week. From memory, the M50's soundstage isn't any better than the M-80 and the M-80 is a tank. Mine gets a lot of abuse at the office, getting knocked off my desk by coworkers and I just toss it naked into my drawer at the end of the work week. It's held up very well. But I do prefer a more balanced and neutral sound, and next to the M50 the M-80 can't stand up to the bass response of the AT can.
> 
> I may have a slight bias for V-Moda's portable headphones as I love my M-80 and I anticipate I'll love my XS even more. The XS will be accompanying me on my three weeks of travel beginning Friday.


 
  
 Well my quick and totally non-comprehensive search for the M-80 didn't show any in that price range.  It's that typical "Oh it's discontinued?  CRANK UP THE PRICE!" that happened with the MA900 also.  I'll keep my eyes peeled, though.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> Blue Snowball is USB. I find the integrated DAC decent enough for voices [I mean it sounds clear so... no complaints? ]


 
 From what I've read and heard on Youtube it is no doubt a great little mic. The problem is that I saw one of the related videos which was for the Yeti, then another video comparing the Yeti to another mic, which led me on this whole journey and before I knew it I was pricing up £1000 worth of equipment. I had to walk away for my own good.
  
 Mind you I do need a mic... Damn it! Look what you've done! lol


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Well my quick and totally non-comprehensive search for the M-80 didn't show any in that price range.  It's that typical "Oh it's discontinued?  CRANK UP THE PRICE!" that happened with the MA900 also.  I'll keep my eyes peeled, though.


 
  
Here ya go, find a used Grado SR-80i and trade.


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> From what I've read and heard on Youtube it is no doubt a great little mic. The problem is that I saw one of the related videos which was for the Yeti, then another video comparing the Yeti to another mic, which led me on this whole journey and before I knew it I was pricing up £1000 worth of equipment. I had to walk away for my own good.
> 
> Mind you I do need a mic... Damn it! Look what you've done! lol




I was looking at the Yeti and the one above it too (Spark I think?)... But then I asked myself what will I use the mic for - let's plays, commentary and gaming... So my common senses saved me. No way did I needed any better. Besides other than the vocals being a little lighter and less full the BS is a damn good mic at that price.

Besides the Yeti seems to pick way more outside noise. It's too sensitive even for a cardioid...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> I was looking at the Yeti and the one above it too (Spark I think?)... But then I asked myself what will I use the mic for - let's plays, commentary and gaming... So my common senses saved me. No way did I needed any better. Besides other than the vocals being a little lighter and less full the BS is a damn good mic at that price.
> 
> Besides the Yeti seems to pick way more outside noise. It's too sensitive even for a cardioid...


 
 Going to put the Snowball back into my list of potential near future purchases. The other one I was looking at in that kind of price range was the Samson Go mic. "It's so tiny!" *as God comes and bangs my head in the oven* (Family Guy reference).
  
 Edit. Einstein, not God. He did it to God.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> Going to put the Snowball back into my list of potential near future purchases. The other one I was looking at in that kind of price range was the Samson Go mic. "It's so tiny!" *as God comes and bangs my head in the oven* (Family Guy reference).
> 
> Edit. Einstein, not God. He did it to God.


 
  
 You're a worse Family Guy joke teller than my wife...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> You're a worse Family Guy joke teller than my wife...


 
 I realised my mistake but seconds after pressing the submit button. Doh! (ha you see, now I'm doing the Simpsons... You know... It's funny because Homer says, Homer says. Oh forget it!)


----------



## Change is Good

Aye carramba... no mas, por favor... NO MAS!


----------



## AxelCloris

爆弾はリスの内側にある。


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> 爆弾はリスの内側にある。


 
 This reminds me of this:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPx2f39Pnns


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> 爆弾はリスの内側にある。


 
  


change is good said:


> Aye carramba... no mas, por favor... NO MAS!


 
 Being British I know exactly how to deal with this situation.
  
 *Speaking very slowly and loudly* Dooo Yooouuu Speeeaaak Engliiish?


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> That brings me right back to the problem of a mic solution. Was hoping to sidestep that issue, that's why hearing that the PC 360's might not be too great when paired with a Mixamp is disappointing.


 

 Get a mic from amazon..just go on amazon and read all the mic reviews..you don't have to spend a lot..as long as it's clear and loud enough for gamer chat!


----------



## HiCZoK

Anyone used new sony playstation wireless stereo 2.0/gold on pc ?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> Get a mic from amazon..just go on amazon and read all the mic reviews..you don't have to spend a lot..as long as it's clear and loud enough for gamer chat!


 
 I'm looking at mics now. I'm still weighing up my options. Still would prefer a boom mic if I'm honest, but I'm not ruling out anything at the moment.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Lmao at the for sale v-moda. He can't solder it because there's flipping gorilla glue over top the connection that he probably can't get off.. Throw them away dude.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I also have to say I hate all of you that bought out the hd650s amazon had used for just over $300 lol. I wanted to wait and save. For the 560 but I have tm joint syndrome and wearing headphones can get fatiguing so I decided to wait and see how recovery goes before spending that much on headphones. Went to purchase the senns and what do ya know... Gone


----------



## Stillhart

Speaking of that bug, the HE-400 is ~$250 on Razordog right now (with the velour pads).  I know the 400i is coming out soon, but this sounds like a great deal. MLE makes them sound like a very attractive alternative to the X1 if you have a nice amp (hi, Change!) and don't mind the loss of the Boom-pro.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I thought I was doing a really good job of not buying expensive desktop amps...
> 
> I thought the M50 might be a good portable for travelling.  I don't really want to use open headphones on an airplane and I don't super want to travel with big fragile $200+ cans anyhow.  But I'm worried that my $200+ headphones have spoiled me for $75 headphones.  lol
> 
> But you're right.  If I'm spending any more money right now, it'll be on an amp.  There will always be another super sale when I'm ready to get another pair of headphones.



There's always gonna be a new latest and greatest, and a sale on last year's latest and greatest.

The thing about the M-80, it was a surprise hit and very well received by itself. Unlike the Sony MA900 you're thinking of (which has no direct descendant), the V-MODA XS is an improved replacement that also adds folding hinges.

I like my M-100, fun sound and super durable, I used them a lot when I first got them, but then I got caught up in analyzing the differences between Q701 and K712 and swapping pads (which so far I can only conclude that the differences are both minute and take practice to hear, probably not worth the price difference in my opinion, BUT overall I prefer the K712 and would in my financial situation choose to keep that one of the two).



hiczok said:


> Anyone used new sony playstation wireless stereo 2.0/gold on pc ?



You've asked this at least three times, someone got them and the SQ wasn't anything special, only a little convenient when using with a PS console. For PC, you would do far better with a SLYR or Creative Aurvana Live!, and you're gonna need additional hardware to process surround on PC anyway.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Speaking of that bug, the HE-400 —



I'm gonna stop you right there and say the HE400 is going to sound bad without a strong amp that adds mids (so not a versatile, neutral amp and definitely not weak amps). The highs are high but they didn't bother me, what bothered me is the mids are not just recessed but sucked out to the point that sometimes lead vocals sound like backing vocals to the drums and instruments hitting the midbass. A colored amp can help a bit, and the headphone's flavor suits some specific genres well, but with other genres (smokey intimate vocals, jazz, songs featuring a diverse variety of instruments) it will just never sound right.

I have a video review of me testing them out, but I never posted it because I spent at least 5 minutes noticing just how much the sound is affected by anything close to the earcups. If you didn't think there was a big difference between open vs closed headphones, put these on and try holding up your hands even a foot away from the driver to hear how the sound changes, no joke it's in my vid.


----------



## HiCZoK

I decided not to care about virtual surround so keep that in mind. And i already have cal. Just been looking for something wireless for use with pc and consoles in 100usd range... to watch movies from a tv connected to pc. And going a cable across the room is less than fine solution. Same goes for console gaming. Even tho cal is prolly superior than any wireless headset, i coul use something wireless.


----------



## Evshrug

Does the Sony still work wirelessly with PCs? Even if you don't care about surround (or can't use it with PC), part of the $100 is paying for it anyway. There are other wireless options. I personally just use speakers in the situation you describe.


----------



## HiCZoK

I would not mind good vss but ive tested that with my xonar dg, cal an dolby heasphone and even tho it was working, i disliked the sq with processing of dh.

cal headband is just too hard and cables are starting to get long in a teeth for me.
Yes that sony thingh is said to work with pc ans ps4..
i was also thinking about something comfortable with detachable cable so i could switch to what ineed but there is nothing interesting. Cal i really the Best headphine in 100usd range


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I'm gonna stop you right there and say the HE400 is going to sound bad without a strong amp that adds mids (so not a versatile, neutral amp and definitely not weak amps). The highs are high but they didn't bother me, what bothered me is the mids are not just recessed but sucked out to the point that sometimes lead vocals sound like backing vocals to the drums and instruments hitting the midbass. A colored amp can help a bit, and the headphone's flavor suits some specific genres well, but with other genres (smokey intimate vocals, jazz, songs featuring a diverse variety of instruments) it will just never sound right.
> 
> I have a video review of me testing them out, but I never posted it because I spent at least 5 minutes noticing just how much the sound is affected by anything close to the earcups. If you didn't think there was a big difference between open vs closed headphones, put these on and try holding up your hands even a foot away from the driver to hear how the sound changes, no joke it's in my vid.


 
  
 Weird, okay.  I will stay away from the PM cans until I'm ready to spend more than a few hundred bucks on the hobby.
  
 On a side note, I decide tonight that I'm going to sell my X1 and keep the Q701.  Since I did the bass mod, the Q701 has much more acceptable levels of bass and slightly less mids and highs.  Honestly, I thought the sound moved a lot closer to the X1 (which I wanted) and it made it a harder choice (which I didn't).
  
 But I was listening to this album https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw12zvPubyc (the bass kicks in about 9 mins in) on my Q's and thought, "Hey, I'm going to try it on my X1!  With that bass, it should kick ass!"  And what happened?  I lost my sparkle in the highs, lost some soundstage, and got that "flabby" bass.  Like it was great bass, but it just felt so imprecise after the Q's; more bass at the expense of detail in the bass.
  
 I guess I'm not a "basshead".  I still think the X1 is super fun and a great all-arounder.  I just like the sound of the Q701 (modded) better and I'd rather put that money towards an amp for my Q701.  As soon as I sell em, I can afford a nice $189 amp...


----------



## kcazbarach

stillhart said:


> Speaking of that bug, the HE-400 is ~$250 on Razordog right now (with the velour pads).  I know the 400i is coming out soon, but this sounds like a great deal. MLE makes them sound like a very attractive alternative to the X1 if you have a nice amp (hi, Change!) and don't mind the loss of the Boom-pro.


 
  
 comfort wise I gotta weigh in.
  
 It's 440 Grams. It's heavy, and u do get used to it but depending on your gaming sessions (I can go sometimes with friends for like 5-7 hours straight), i think it'd be bothersome. and the fact that the treble is an issue -it can be eqd, but that's not as much of an option on consoles.
  
 I like my he 400s alot, but I just couldn't see myself ever using them for gaming too much and the weight is a big reason why.


----------



## 3stun

Do you think modded T50RP (Mad Dog or ZMF mod) would have an advantage over Sony MA900 for gaming (with CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone) and movie watching? Connected to Xonar Essence STX sound card.
 Mad Lust Envy gave 8.75 to Mad Dog for fun and 7 for competitive, while MA900 scored 8 and 8.75.
 If I am more after narutal, realistic, immersive sound (sort of coming from the real world, not the headphones), should I spend more on T50RP mods or go with MA900?
 From what I read about ZMF mod, it seems to be more towards monitoring sound versus Mad Dog.


----------



## conquerator2

If you can have an open headphone in your environment I'd always recommend it over a closed headphone. 
Especially with gaming, I find open headphones to add a new level of immersion because of the air and projection.
Mad Dogs are great but a closed headphone will always be closed thereby I'd recommend the MA900 instead. I own it and it is a great all-round headphone. 



3stun said:


> Do you think modded T50RP (Mad Dog or ZMF mod) would have an advantage over Sony MA900 for gaming (with CMSS-3D or Dolby Headphone) and movie watching? Connected to Xonar Essence STX sound card.
> Mad Lust Envy gave 8.75 to Mad Dog for fun and 7 for competitive, while MA900 scored 8 and 8.75.
> If I am more after narutal, realistic, immersive sound (sort of coming from the real world, not the headphones), should I spend more on T50RP mods or go with MA900?
> From what I read about ZMF mod, it seems to be more towards monitoring sound versus Mad Dog.


----------



## SonnyA85

is there anything below $200 significantly better than a sennheiser HD 595 for gaming? if so what are the options?


----------



## 3stun

conquerator2 said:


> If you can have an open headphone in your environment I'd always recommend it over a closed headphone.
> Especially with gaming, I find open headphones to add a new level of immersion because of the air and projection.
> Mad Dogs are great but a closed headphone will always be closed thereby I'd recommend the MA900 instead. I own it and it is a great all-round headphone.


 
 Someone on this forum mentioned that ZMF T50RP have soundstage about the same size as MA900.


----------



## conquerator2

3stun said:


> Someone on this forum mentioned that ZMF T50RP have soundstage about the same size as MA900.


 
 Yes the headphone might as well have similarly sized soundstage but it's about the openness of the sound.
 Try covering an open headphone with your hands and you get a semi-open sound. Now cover the ports fully with a cloth and you get a closed headphone sound.
 Side by side it is much more apparent. If you don't have a comparison on hand or never heard an open headphone you might as well be very happy with a closed one. I was, until I heard open.


----------



## jeeezy

Hey guys! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Im running my X1 Fidelio connected to my old Sony Bravia TV for 3 months now.
 Besides watching some movies and listening music i mostly play Battlefield 4 (competetive) on my PS4.
 I had some cheap Sennheiser for over 2 years before, then i went to buy some Tritton Pro 5.1 Surround Crap for 160€ (!!!) and brought them back the same day i bought them. What the hell was that ??? They sounded soo agressive and unbalanced. I felt like playing with some 10€ headphones. Pin-pointing enemys while playing BF4 was impossible. It was just loud surround sound all around me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Best choice ever was buying the X1 after that and ohh my god, im still so blown away how good it sounds!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 A difference between night and day.
 Great soundstage, warm sound with a good amount of bass. Simply amazing!
 And its so easy to locate my enemy with audio now. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Soo why not take a step further and buy a Virtual Surround Device ?
 After some research i bought the Turtle Beach DSS 2 yesterday cause i only read positive feedback.
 I played with it around 2 hours now but i cant get the hang of it. All warmth of the sound is gone. Soundstage is very tight and unbalanced imo. Felt like i was playing with a better Tritton again. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think i may have to stick to stereo.
 Or is the Astro Mixamp that much better ??
  
 Excuse my bad english..


----------



## conquerator2

jeeezy said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 DSS 2 uses different [worse] technology than the MixAmp, Tritton, DSS 1 or TB receiver station A.
 Those use Dolby Headphone, while DSS 2 uses a lower accuracy simulation technology...
  
 All this is written in the guide man! Here - "New version, the *DSS2* does not use Dolby Headphone, and only simulates 4 speakers. It is unknown (so far) how it compares to Dolby Headphone." - It's been stated that the DSS2 solution is worse compared to DH.


----------



## jeeezy

conquerator2 said:


> DSS 2 uses different [worse] technology than the MixAmp, Tritton, DSS 1 or TB receiver station A.
> Those use Dolby Headphone, while DSS 2 uses a lower accuracy simulation technology...
> 
> All this is written in the guide man! Here - "New version, the *DSS2* does not use Dolby Headphone, and only simulates 4 speakers. It is unknown (so far) how it compares to Dolby Headphone." - It's been stated that the DSS2 solution is worse compared to DH.


 

 Too bad i found this thread after buying the DSS2.
 I may give Virtual Surround another chance.


----------



## conquerator2

jeeezy said:


> Too bad i found this thread after buying the DSS2.
> I may give Virtual Surround another chance.


 
 You should! It's awesome once you get used to it. Then again, the headphones play an important role but the X1 got you covered :}


----------



## rovve

Hi great guide, helped me alot, thanks!
  
 I've decided to buy Fidelio x1 but im a little confused. Should i buy the audio cable and the grado adapter cable that you recommend if i buy the V-moda BoomPro?
  
 Im gonna use it for pc gaming with my Creative Soundblaster Z soundcard.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Stillhart

rovve said:


> Hi great guide, helped me alot, thanks!
> 
> I've decided to buy Fidelio x1 but im a little confused. Should i buy the audio cable and the grado adapter cable that you recommend if i buy the V-moda BoomPro?
> 
> ...


 
 If you're buying the Boompro to go with the X1, that's all the cable you need.  It comes with a Y-adapter.
  
 BTW, I know someone selling a barely used X1 if you're looking to save a few bucks.


----------



## Stillhart

sonnya85 said:


> is there anything below $200 significantly better than a sennheiser HD 595 for gaming? if so what are the options?


 
 I haven't heard the 595, so I can't speak from experience.  But everything I've read says that your main options are the 598, X1 (if you can find it used), Q701 ($200 new and relatively easy to find used), MA-900 (if you can find them that cheap anymore, they're discontinued), ATH-700.
  
 As to which of those are significantly better?  Probably the Q701 and the ATH-700.  There's a nice top 10 list at the begninnig of this guide that lists all the recommendations for competitive gaming.  I suspect most of those will be viable options.


----------



## TiTaN

stillhart said:


> I haven't heard the 595, so I can't speak from experience.  But everything I've read says that your main options are the 598, X1 (if you can find it used), Q701 ($200 new and relatively easy to find used), MA-900 (if you can find them that cheap anymore, they're discontinued), ATH-700.
> 
> As to which of those are significantly better?  Probably the Q701 and the ATH-700.  There's a nice top 10 list at the begninnig of this guide that lists all the recommendations for competitive gaming.  I suspect most of those will be viable options.


 
  
 The Q701 is good but will absolutely need an AMP, as soon as I turned the dial to mix in chat audio with game audio through my Mixamp the volume drops and you can just tell they are struggling.
  
 The MA900 is fantastic but a unique fit.
  
 The AD700 (the open version, not to be confused with the A700) are what I'm using after trying all the above, though I'm currently looking to grab another pair of X1's, I just got the original pair through Amazon and paid too much for them at the time (missed the $150 gold box deal).


----------



## rovve

stillhart said:


> If you're buying the Boompro to go with the X1, that's all the cable you need.  It comes with a Y-adapter.
> 
> BTW, I know someone selling a barely used X1 if you're looking to save a few bucks.


 

 Okay nice thanks.
  
 hmm not sure... why is he selling it? And what would the price be?


----------



## Stillhart

rovve said:


> Okay nice thanks.
> 
> hmm not sure... why is he selling it? And what would the price be?


 
 Haha, it's me (check out my signature).  I'm selling it because I bought three headphones to compare and pick one, and I decided to keep the Q701.  They're both great in their own ways, but they have very different sound signatures and I just prefer the Q701 more.  If I could afford to keep both, I would, but I need to sell the X1 to buy an amp for the Q701.
  
 You can PM me for other questions on it, if you like.  I don't want to turn this into the classifieds.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I just returned the Skullcandy Crusher (dem headaches), and bought something else...




With how good the HS-15 has been to me, especially comfort, I can only imagine the _semi_-open model will fit me even better. This, alongside my soundbar purchase will keep me more than busy enough in terms of audio for a good long while.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Tis me again 
  
 I've decided I'm going to give the PC 360's a shot (despite a warning from one user who didn't enjoy them). I'll be also getting a Mixamp Pro. I'd just like to ask a couple of things before pulling the trigger.
  
It was mentioned that I may need an additional amp to comfortably power the PC 360's. I'll probably buy the headset and Mixamp first and see how I get along (seeing how I'm a low volume listener), but should I wish to add an amp, what would be a good match (my current headphones are K240 mk II's so if I could get something to suit both that would be great)?
  
I just want to be absolutely sure on this, the 2013 Mixamp Pro still uses Dolby Headphone, is that correct? I ask as I want to make sure it isn't a case like the DSS2 where old models did but new models don't.
  
I'd be grateful for your help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp and pc360 are fine. For music use, yes, you'll want an amp. Gaming, no.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp and pc360 are fine. For music use, yes, you'll want an amp. Gaming, no.


 
 Should I wish to expand the functionality, can you recommend an amp? And does the 2013 Mixamp, still use DH?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Questions that are answered on the first page...


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> Tis me again
> 
> I've decided I'm going to give the PC 360's a shot (despite a warning from one user who didn't enjoy them). I'll be also getting a Mixamp Pro. I'd just like to ask a couple of things before pulling the trigger.
> 
> ...


 
 I'll comment on the MixAmp part - yes, it still has Dolby Headphone - http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/product/gaming/headset/listing.html


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> So I just returned the Skullcandy Crusher (dem headaches), and bought something else...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've been wanting to try the HFI-15G for a possible portable, the PX-100 iis clamp in combination of being on-ear was too much for me to tolerate more than 30 minutes. I've been told they are in a sense a better sounding and more comfortable PX-100 ii.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's anything like the HS-15, then yes, you can expect a huge comfort boost over the PX100-II. I didn't find the PX100-II all too comfortable, and ended up snapping the drivers off the headband in attempt to mnake them clamp less. :rolleyes:

A shame, the PX100-II is FREAKING PHENOMENAL in sound quality for the price.

The HS-15 is the most comfortable headphone I've ever owned aside from the Koss KSC75 and Yuin G1A, so that says a lot. This is why I sucked it in and took the higher than HS-15 price for the 15G. Cost me like 4x what the cheapest 15 can be found at. Still, it will be worth it to me, as I can wear it all day, lay down with it, and never induces sweat.

It's all thanks to calpis for telling me about them.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> I'll comment on the MixAmp part - yes, it still has Dolby Headphone - http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/product/gaming/headset/listing.html


 
 Thanks, I didn't want to bug MLE again, but I couldn't see it explicitly stated for the 2013 model. As for the amp, I'm reading the guide now.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> If it's anything like the HS-15, then yes, you can expect a huge comfort boost over the PX100-II. I didn't find the PX100-II all too comfortable, and ended up snapping the drivers off the headband in attempt to mnake them clamp less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's good to hear. I didn't either, they pressed against my earstoo hard into the driver units causing physical pain. They resist having their clamp reduced after having them for like a year and many stretching attemps they still haven't really reduced in clamp, my head is too big for them, I ended up just giving them to my mom.
  
 The PX-100 ii was one of the few Senns I actually liked and I do miss it some but I never used it much because of comfort.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks, I didn't want to bug MLE again, but I couldn't see it explicitly stated for the 2013 model. As for the amp, I'm reading the guide now.




It specifically says "Dolby Headphone Device" under the 2013's picture in the front of the guide.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> It specifically says "Dolby Headphone Device" under the 2013's picture in the front of the guide.


 
 Yeah, but I've seen the DSS2 referred to as a Dolby headphone device (OK not here), that's why I wanted to make absolutely sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sigh.

Gotta love those questions, lol.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Sigh.
> 
> Gotta love those questions, lol.


 
 In fairness, even the Astro website doesn't explicitly say "Dolby Headphone". It says "Dolby Digital" 5.1 or 7.1, so I don't understand why it's such a stupid question.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Good thing this thread sometimes drifts towards those ultralight headphones. I want to buy a pair for work during those idle minutes and my first thought was the Koss Porta Pro. That Ultrasone isn't availabe directly from Amazon unfortunately but I don't need the mic. I could have gotten a CAL but I prefer open so I can hear people around me.


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> In fairness, even the Astro website doesn't explicitly say "Dolby Headphone". It says "Dolby Digital" 5.1 or 7.1, so I don't understand why it's such a stupid question.


 

 If you already have the Omni why don't you see how that sounds with the pc360 before you get the mix amp , you never know they could sound good together!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

napalmhardcore said:


> In fairness, even the Astro website doesn't explicitly say "Dolby Headphone". It says "Dolby Digital" 5.1 or 7.1, so I don't understand why it's such a stupid question.




Because I literally answered this right on the Mixamp 2013's entry, and you don't even have to click on the spoiler. People ask questions that are literally answered on the first page. The the DSS entry specifically states that the DSS2 does not have Dolby Headphone.

I mean... it's like people skip the first page and ask questions.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> If you already have the Omni why don't you see how that sounds with the pc360 before you get the mix amp , you never know they could sound good together!


 
 I've got consoles too, so I want the Mixamp for those. I'm not fixated on Dolby Headphone, I just wanted to know exactly what I'm buying. If it sounds good I couldn't care less what technology it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you're not fixated on Dolby Headphone, the Creative Recon 3D USB is a very versatile gaming device, which works well for both consoles and PC. It's cheaper, and has considerably less hiss than the Mixamp Pro.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Because I literally answered this right on the Mixamp 2013's entry, and you don't even have to click on the spoiler. People ask questions that are literally answered on the first page. The the DSS entry specifically states that the DSS2 does not have Dolby Headphone.
> 
> I mean... it's like people skip the first page and ask questions.


 
 And as I stated, I've seen people incorrectly refer to the DSS2 as a Dolby headphone device in the sense that it decodes Dolby signals for use with headphones, but it doesn't use "Dolby Headphone" as in Dolby's own digital signal processing technology/algorithm.
  
 I didn't read the DSS description as I wasn't looking to buy one and already know that the DSS2 doesn't support "Dolby Headphone". That is why I sought confirmation about the Mixamp.
  
 In regards to an additional amp, I'll hold up my hand and say "my bad". I've been referring to the guide for info on headphones, headsets and virtual surround devices. I didn't look at the amp section, but being not too knowledgeable about matching impedances and power outputs of amps, I thought I'd ask for a suggestion, this being a forum after all.
  


> Well, if you're not fixated on Dolby Headphone, the Creative Recon 3D USB is a very versatile gaming device, which works well for both consoles and PC. It's cheaper, and has considerably less hiss than the Mixamp Pro.


 
 Thanks for that suggestion. While I am not fixated specifically on Dolby Headphone, I would like to try something different. I already own the SB Omni which shares the same technology. I see buying the Mixamp as a chance to broaden my experience.
  
 And I'm sorry for arguing with you. I felt you were being short with me and as much as I respect your opinion and the work you've done, I don't back down if I feel I'm not in the wrong. Hope you understand


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> And I'm sorry for arguing with you. I felt you were being short with me and as much as I respect your opinion and the work you've done, I don't back down if I feel I'm not in the wrong. Hope you understand


 
  
 He did the same thing to me when I was in here asking questions at first.  Fortunately, I stuck around despite him and have met some cool people and learned a lot.  Don't let grumpy MLE get to you.  Ask your questions and learn so you can help the next group of noobs.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> He did the same thing to me when I was in here asking questions at first.  Fortunately, I stuck around despite him and have met some cool people and learned a lot.  Don't let grumpy MLE get to you.  Ask your questions and learn so you can help the next group of noobs.


 
 The last thing I want to do is pick a fight. Maybe I should have better communicated why I was unsure at the beginning. Hopefully he accepts my apology.


----------



## AxelCloris

MLE's a good guy, don't let the frustrated comments bother you. But I agree with him that a lot of the questions people ask can easily be found in the guide information on the first page. Many of us "regulars" end up answering the same questions multiple times. And if it's not on the first post, searching the thread could potentially reveal more information. That said, I can't count the number of dumb statements/questions I've made here, and I'm still around.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> MLE's a good guy, don't let the frustrated comments bother you. But I agree with him that a lot of the questions people ask can easily be found in the guide information on the first page. Many of us "regulars" end up answering the same questions multiple times. And if it's not on the first post, searching the thread could potentially reveal more information. That said, I can't count the number of dumb statements/questions I've made here, and I'm still around.


 
 +1  I totally get why MLE is like that sometimes.
  
 And all yo newcomers - don't let that get to you. The more experienced you become the less "stupid questions" you will ask and the more you'll warm up to MLE and us <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you take what I say to heart, then you certainly won't ever like me. I'm blunt spoken, but I don't mean it in a condescending way. Just relax, it ain't that serious. I'm not that serious either. 

I'm not grumpy (ACTUALLY PRETTY HAPPY ATM, YAYAYAY), just, I don't like to act like I'm something I'm not. Sorry if I'm not all sugar and rainbows. The internet is way too sarcastic and mean for people to ever take things personally. Think I have time to keep up with people who don't like me? I genuinely can't be arsed. If we get along, awesome. If we don't, well... too bad for both me and the other person who has a disagreement with me.

Just, when you answer the same questions over and over, and get the same questions asked in messages and the forum yet again, it gets incredibly tiresome. Nothing aginst you PERSONALLY. I just wish people would read the guide first before ever asking ONE question. Chances are, it will be answered there. Unless it's about an item that ISN'T on the guide. If it's not on the guide, I can't make a general opinion of it, despite the many, many times I get asked if headset A is better than headphone X when I clearly don't have them on the guide, therefore I don't have enough experience with.

I should add yet another thing in big bold letters:

*IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE READ THE GUIDE FIRST, THE ANSWER MAY BE THERE. READ IT FIRST, THEN ASK.*


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> If you take what I say to heart, then you certainly won't ever like me. I'm blunt spoken, but I don't mean it in a condescending way. Just relax, it ain't that serious. I'm not that serious either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I completely understand. I'm the kind of person who double checks stuff to the point it frustrates people I know in the flesh. I just wanted to be sure I had my facts straight, leaving no room for interpretation.
  
 Again sorry


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> If you take what I say to heart, then you certainly won't ever like me. I'm blunt spoken, but I don't mean it in a condescending way. Just relax, it ain't that serious. I'm not that serious either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Where's this guide you speak of? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Sorry, couldn't resist


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering it likes to disappear completely when I add a new review and/or edit, it's not too farfetched to not see it at times. :/


----------



## AxelCloris

How would you compare the ATH-M50 to the Sennheiser HE90?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE90 is only like 15% better (I tested this based on reviews) and the M50 seems to have a close enough frequency graph, that I feel I get most of the detail of what i would get with the the HE90. The HE90 also leaks so much I can't use my clip on mic when using the HE90. Also, it probanly needs a little more out of my Mixamp, so I have to attach an O2 to bring it up to par. Since the O2 is neutral, it doesnt really add much to the tonally boring HE90.The M50 works without any additional amping and has just enough bass emphasis for my preference. 

I also like tbe detachable 3.5mm cable on the M50x, so I might be able to use my Boompro. I'm stuck with my DX mic with the HE90, since the cable is proprietary. Ah well...

Its much too cumbersome. I'd take the M50 9 times out of 10.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I now have a game plan. PC 360's, Mixamp and if I decide in future I need more power I'll get the EHP-02 (or something similar).
  
 Was going to order the headset and Mixamp tonight, but the Mixamp is currently out of stock.
  
 This will give me the opportunity to learn a little more about amps and what is available should I want to add one down the line.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> So I just returned the Skullcandy Crusher (dem headaches), and bought something else...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It was only a matter of time. I've been using mine just about every day since '08 and only stopped because I ran the pads down raw. Bought new pads a couple months ago and I couldn't be happier to use them again. Now I have enough spare pads to last me another 15 years lol.


----------



## Change is Good

I just wanted to add to the topic that was discussed earlier about new people and their questions. This was my first post ever on this site... after 3-4 months of being a "lurker."
  
 Quote:


change is good said:


> Hello, everyone. I have been researching through these forums for the last few months. I created a profile so I can personally thank Mad Lust Envy, chicolom, and Evshrug. After purchasing and returning many setups, I finally found my match... thanks to you. I am new to all of this... so my ears feel like I'm in heaven whenever I game or watch movies. I ended up with this setup...
> PS3 > Recon3D > Matrix M-Stage (2012 version) > Q701s (with annie pads). I am now damn near broke... but still... thank you, again!


 
  
 I was once a noob, just as blind as the rest... and can't count how many "duh" moments I've had, since then...
  
 If one can read, however, and are _willing_ to read, the guide is pretty easy to follow and comprehend. It can be done, people, all you have to do is read it...
  
 If you don't take the time to read it... well... don't get your feelings when the following happens:

No one responds
No one responds
No one responds
Someone says "read the guide" in a not so friendly manner
No one responds
  
 Okay... rant over...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> It was only a matter of time. I've been using mine just about every day since '08 and only stopped because I ran the pads down raw. Bought new pads a couple months ago and I couldn't be happier to use them again. Now I have enough spare pads to last me another 15 years lol.




Cal, the pads are glued on, amirite? That's what I'm gathering with the HS-15.

Hmm... I'm wondering if I should try my hand on putting the HS-15's pads on my DNA on Ear. I *think* the dimensions are similar. The DNA On Ear with some HS-15 pads would be HEAVEN if it retained most of it's sound.

I'm convinced that the HS-15's pads are my fave pads out of all pads ever worn....wait... maybe the B&W P3 just may be a smidge better but that headphone is...meh for too much money.

I wonder how Grado comfies compare to the 15's pads.


----------



## calpis

Yeah, there's just a ring of glue under the wax paper. Grado pads are thicker but they do clamp, it's not harsh but def noticeable. I can't really compare the pads on the SR60 that I have because they look like they've gotten a lot of sun.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, every time I put on my 1540 w/Alpha pads I remember why I'm so crazy about 'em. It is literally my favorite headphone of all time. Going on six months strong... the longest period I've spent with any headphone, thus far...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

When you guys are putting your headphones through their paces for music use, do you have go to albums? Obviously people will have their own choices but I'd love to hear some examples 
  
 I think I've just found one of mine (I've heard the album plenty of times but never through headphones).


----------



## Change is Good

Jazz is my go to genre when analyzing headphones... and my go to album is _Kind of Blue..._
  
 Reggae for when I want to get a better feel of a headphone's lower frequencies... and that go to album is _Legend_...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Jazz is my go to genre when analyzing headphones... and my go to album is _Kind of Blue..._


 
 I can understand why jazz would be a good genre. I actually quite like some jazz but have never actually bought any albums (wasn't really sure where to start, if that makes sense).
  
 The album I have decided is a go to for me is Ocean Colour Scene, Mosley Shoals. It seems to test a lot of different aspects of the headphones. Really brings them to life.


----------



## syfer

Hi whats the best 7.1 headset that you have used?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Lmao. He's not being irrational or grumpy. Just like he said, people seem to just skip the front page. Or if they don't they skim over it. I've found that people on these forums have the same nature and that is they tend to read, digest and then instead of going back over what they read to fill the gaps, they get lazy and ask questions. I understand some people have bad reading comprehension but just take your time and go back over it. And the best part is that if you're absolutely horrible at reading THERES A NUMBER RATING SYSTEM. There's not much that he can answer that's not on that page.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

doctacosmos said:


> Lmao. He's not being irrational or grumpy. Just like he said, people seem to just skip the front page. Or if they don't they skim over it. I've found that people on these forums have the same nature and that is they tend to read, digest and then instead of going back over what they read to fill the gaps, they get lazy and ask questions. I understand some people have bad reading comprehension but just take your time and go back over it. And the best part is that if you're absolutely horrible at reading THERES A NUMBER RATING SYSTEM. There's not much that he can answer that's not on that page.


 
 I assume this is reference to yesterday. As I have explained, I asked not due to lack of reading comprehension but due to semantics. I wanted to be sure that by Dolby headphone device it was meant that the actual technology used was the trademarked technology "Dolby Headphone" and not a device for "headphones" that just so happens to decode "Dolby".
  
 Yes, I did overlook the amp section of the guide, but other than that the only thing I did wrong was not effectively communicate what I meant. It is also true that on the Astro website it does not say "Dolby Headphone" in the description for the product. In fact I tried to view the PDF for the 2013 Mixamp, but only found one for the older model. It is only in retrospect that I spotted the only real indication that "Dolby Headphone" technology is used is the logo (which is a picture, not writing). That is a case of assuming knowledge on Astro's part.


----------



## Murder Mike

napalmhardcore said:


> I assume this is reference to yesterday.


 
  
 No, not even close. He was making a general statement as this kind of thing happens all the time.


----------



## martin vegas

napalmhardcore said:


> I now have a game plan. PC 360's, Mixamp and if I decide in future I need more power I'll get the EHP-02 (or something similar).
> 
> Was going to order the headset and Mixamp tonight, but the Mixamp is currently out of stock.
> 
> This will give me the opportunity to learn a little more about amps and what is available should I want to add one down the line.


 

 You could have a look at the asus xonar essence stx and the phoebus!


----------



## martin vegas

I am thinking about getting a new monitor for my ps4 probably dell..i have had the monitor i am using for about a year it's a samsung syncmaster 24 inch backlit led ..i want something that doesn't bleach things out!


----------



## eyal1983

I am selling a beautiful green Quincy Jones 1 months old AKG Q701, in original box, and all accessories included
  
 PM me for details.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> When you guys are putting your headphones through their paces for music use, do you have go to albums? Obviously people will have their own choices but I'd love to hear some examples
> 
> I think I've just found one of mine (I've heard the album plenty of times but never through headphones).


 
  
  


change is good said:


> Jazz is my go to genre when analyzing headphones... and my go to album is _Kind of Blue..._
> 
> Reggae for when I want to get a better feel of a headphone's lower frequencies... and that go to album is _Legend_...


 
  
 I've been meaning to put together a stanbdardized list.  For now, I have a few albums that I've listened to a LOT over the years, which I ripped to FLAC for testing:  Shpongle "Are You Shpongled?" is one of my all-time favorite albums and it's great for testing detail because the music is so layered; detailed headphones bring out sounds you didn't even know were there. Bonobo "Days to Come" (picked for familiarity) and Hiromi's Sonicbloom "Beyond Standard" (jazz!!!) are two of the others.  I need to find one or two more that have more variety.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I am thinking about getting a new monitor for my ps4 probably dell..i have had the monitor i am using for about a year it's a samsung syncmaster 24 inch backlit led ..i want something that doesn't bleach things out!


 
 Eizo Foris FS2333.
  
 Nuff said.
  
 I was using a 24" LED Syncmaster too and this is an awesome IPS gaming display. World's first possibly. 5 years warranty.


----------



## Boubos

Hi guys, watching the COD Chanpionship last weekend, all the players where wearing IEM headphones, underneath their Astro headphones used for the mic.

Mad only reviewed one set of IEM, why are those guys all using IEM, except for sound isolation?

Any positioning advantages in FPS using IEM? 

Any particular brands better than other?

Thanks


----------



## Murder Mike

conquerator2 said:


> Eizo Foris FS2333.
> 
> Nuff said.
> 
> I was using a 24" LED Syncmaster too and this is an awesome IPS gaming display. World's first possibly. 5 years warranty.


 
  
 Alternatively, you can get a cheaper LG IPS234V-PN. It should perform similarly. There's some solid info in this slickdeals thread.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> Alternatively, you can get a cheaper LG IPS234V-PN. It should perform similarly. There's some solid info in this slickdeals thread.


 
 Yeah, well he didn't say if there was a budget. I think the price for the one I suggested is reasonable though.


----------



## Murder Mike

$400 for a 23" IPS is robbery. You can get a Dell U2312HM for under $200 on Amazon right now.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> $400 for a 23" IPS is robbery. You can get a Dell U2312HM for under $200 on Amazon right now.


 
  
 Or pay $400 for a 30" IPS from Monoprice.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> $400 for a 23" IPS is robbery. You can get a Dell U2312HM for under $200 on Amazon right now.


 
 I respectfully disagree, sorry.
  
 The one you posted is great but I took 2 issues with it when choosing between the two - 1] no HDMI input 2] recent Amazon offerings have a yellow hue [all of them...]
  
 Luckily Dell offers 5 year warranty and zero dead pixel guarantee! Oh, wait...
  
 I spent a lot of time comparing many different screens but found the Eizo one the best performer albeit at at a premium price.


----------



## Murder Mike

conquerator2 said:


> The one you posted is great but I took 2 issues with it when choosing between the two - 1] no HDMI input 2] recent Amazon offerings have a yellow hue [all of them...]


 
  
 The first issue is solved with a HDMI to DVI adapter. The second issue is news to me and I'd probably retract the recommendation depending on how severe the problem is.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> The first issue is solved with a HDMI to DVI adapter. The second issue is news to me and I'd probably retract the recommendation depending on how severe the problem is.


 
 Seems hit or miss. Doesn't seem to be every one anymore but it's best to be careful about that sort of thing.
 I went with the one I chose because it did magnificently in all performance and build quality tests and it does offer a 5 year warranty. Eizo is a renowned company, although not too recognized in the States and elsewhere
 The price is justified IMO, but YMMV.


----------



## martin vegas

Thinking about getting this one?


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> Thinking about getting this one?




 http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
  
 This website pretty much has everything you should need :] Both the monitors that we referenced are there and much more... I made my [to me right] decision based on it.


----------



## Murder Mike

martin vegas said:


> Thinking about getting this one? Dell U2412M


 
  
 Since I PC game mainly, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 16:10 monitor. With a PS4, I would steer towards a 1080p monitor to avoid any conflicts that may occur due to scaling. I'm pretty sure the U2412M doesn't have 1:1 scaling and will stretch the image to fit the screen when the source isn't in a 16:10 compatible resolution.


----------



## martin vegas

murder mike said:


> Since I PC game mainly, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 16:10 monitor. With a PS4, I would steer towards a 1080p monitor to avoid any conflicts that may occur due to scaling. I'm pretty sure the U2412M doesn't have 1:1 scaling and will stretch the image to fit the screen when the source isn't in a 16:10 compatible resolution.


 

 I am not jumping into getting one straight I will browse the web until I find something decent for the ps4..the Samsung monitor isn't a bad monitor and blue rays look good, it's just the picture is hard to get right..it's either too bright or too dull for bf4.. the thing with dell is you get good bang for the buck and I have never seen a bad dell monitor!


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> Since I PC game mainly, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 16:10 monitor. With a PS4, I would steer towards a 1080p monitor to avoid any conflicts that may occur due to scaling. I'm pretty sure the U2412M doesn't have 1:1 scaling and will stretch the image to fit the screen when the source isn't in a 16:10 compatible resolution.


 
 The monitor is not recommended for external devices, no... That was one of the reasons too.[http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2011/review-dell-u2412m-part15.html#Video]


----------



## conquerator2

I am not trying to steer anyone clear of it. It is great for office and PC use but as a PS guy myself, I had to go through all this a month back when upgrading my own Syncmaster [lol...].
 I was looking at the Dell  too.
  
 This Asus seems great as well, but again, I don't have the best experience with their panels - http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2011/review-asus-pa238q.html
  
 That's about as much help as I can give :] At least here, it's derailed enough already


----------



## syfer

i do you think you could test the Sennheiser PC363D i would like to see if these are any good would like to see your thoughts on this.


----------



## opteamist

trying to replace my astro a40 that i use to game on xbox one. reason being that it was just too tight on my head which led to discomfort. would anyone know the size difference between the a40 (or hd 600) and the philips fidelio x1? 
  
  
 edit: thanks! didn't even notice.


----------



## Change is Good

syfer said:


> i do you think you could test the Sennheiser PC363D i would like to see if these are any good would like to see your thoughts on this.




Sure! We'll get right on top of that for ya!


----------



## Change is Good

opteamist said:


> trying to replace my astro a40 that i use to game on xbox one. reason being that it was just too tight on my head which led to discomfort. would anyone know the size difference between the two?




The torture never ends... *sigh*

Sir, size difference between the A40 and?!? o_O


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> The torture never ends... *sigh*
> 
> Sir, size difference between the A40 and?!? o_O


 
  
 Size difference between the A40 and Xbox One, clearly.
  
 The Xbox One is bigger, but the A40 will feel more comfortable when worn.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Size difference between the A40 and Xbox One, clearly.
> 
> The Xbox One is bigger, but the A40 will feel more comfortable when worn.




Ohhhh! Thaaaaat's what he meant...

I'm going to compare the size/comfort of my K612 and my PS4, now. Brb...


----------



## Stillhart

syfer said:


> i do you think you could test the Sennheiser PC363D i would like to see if these are any good would like to see your thoughts on this.


 
  
 I thought it was exactly the same as the PC360, but with a USB sound card built in.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, after a few minutes, I realized the PS4 is not for me. It's heavy, leaves a dent on the top of my head, and keeps sliding off. 

Maybe the Xbox One is more comfortable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The XB1 is even bigger, heavier and dorkier looking when worn.

The Wii U looks the easiest on the head.


----------



## AxelCloris

opteamist said:


> trying to replace my astro a40 that i use to game on xbox one. reason being that it was just too tight on my head which led to discomfort. would anyone know the size difference between the a40 (or hd 600) and the philips fidelio x1?
> 
> edit: thanks! didn't even notice.


 
  
 I personally find the HD6x0 models very comfortable. The oval shaped cups do a great job of hugging behind your ears and hold the headphone in place. From memory, I feel that the A40 has a smaller opening in the pads than the Sennheisers. I can't speak to the X1, as I've not experienced it yet.
  
 Have you tried stretching the headband over some books for several hours? That often helps reduce clamping and improve comfort. I've had to do this with some headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> The XB1 is even bigger, heavier and dorkier looking when worn.
> 
> The Wii U looks the easiest on the head.


 
  
 I have no idea how you even think this will be comfortable. Why on earth would you want this thing, MLE? I imagine it'll be extremely side heavy and put a TON of pressure on the top of your skull. No thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Omg, I'm salivating. I'll sell my left hip for project Christine.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Omg, I'm salivating. I'll sell my left hip for project Christine.


 
  
 Maybe Facebook will buy the idea and turn all our dreams into nightmares.  <3


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> Omg, I'm salivating. I'll sell my left hip for project Christine.


 
 Knowing Razer's prices, you would need both hips and a kidney.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Omg, I'm salivating. I'll sell my left hip for project Christine.


 
  
 Assuming you haven't changed your line of work, I would imagine a hip can be incredibly important to your employment. 
  
 In all seriousness, I'm not sure I want the project Christine. I love the concept of a modular computer, but the cost of something like this would be so much more than just building a liquid cooled gaming PC and upgrading parts every year. I'd personally save the additional $400-600 or spend that on better parts.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

murder mike said:


> No, not even close. He was making a general statement as this kind of thing happens all the time.


 
 The part about MLE not being angry or irrational was certainly a reference to yesterday (I'd say frustrated would be more concise, as superficially my question did appear to be a case of not having read the first page when in fact I had).
  
 DoctaCosmos then continues straight on from there talking about how people should read the first page instead of asking questions. This lead me to believe that he may still be under the impression that I had made the mistake of not reading the guide at the beginning, instead asking a question about something already covered.
  
 My post was not written in anger, but simply to explain what had happened. I realise that my post appears defensive but it was not intended to be (hence the lack of exclamation marks or capitals).


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Assuming you haven't changed your line of work, I would imagine a hip can be incredibly important to your employment.
> 
> In all seriousness, I'm not sure I want the project Christine. I love the concept of a modular computer, but the cost of something like this would be so much more than just building a liquid cooled gaming PC and upgrading parts every year. I'd personally save the additional $400-600 or spend that on better parts.


 
 The idea behind Project Christine was to make it subscription-based so that you're spending about the same amount either way.  Like instead of spending $600 to upgrade your computer once a year, you pay $50 per month and get upgrades as they are ready (in your price bracket).
  
 It's an interesting idea.  I think the subscription model was more innovative than the hardware model; they just needed the modular hardware to make the subscription service work.


----------



## Evshrug

3stun said:


> Someone on this forum mentioned that ZMF T50RP have soundstage about the same size as MA900.



I guarantee that is incorrect. If you heard them, you will know that soundstage is a whole different class with open headphones, the sense of distance and realism.



napalmhardcore said:


> When you guys are putting your headphones through their paces for music use, do you have go to albums? Obviously people will have their own choices but I'd love to hear some examples
> 
> I think I've just found one of mine (I've heard the album plenty of times but never through headphones).



Which one? I like Andrew Bird's "Armchair Apocrypha" and Wilco's latest album. I also have a bunch of random songs for testing in a playlist I've used for a few years. I also hold CoD4 and Halo:Reach as standards for game soundwhoring.



syfer said:


> Hi whats the best 7.1 headset that you have used?



I don't like ones with multiple drivers. Haven't yet heard one that didn't suck.



martin vegas said:


> I am thinking about getting a new monitor for my ps4 probably dell..i have had the monitor i am using for about a year it's a samsung syncmaster 24 inch backlit led ..i want something that doesn't bleach things out!



I'm in the same boat right now. I was thinking of getting a $300 Asus IPS off of Amazon, but then I was in Best Buy and some other IPS model they had on display (not the same one), and I saw what I guess is ghosting... When I simply scrolled the tiles in Win8 start menu, there was an effect on it that looked like the effect in that 90's TV show "Ghost Writer," the tiles had like a slime trail or shadow that trailed behind it as you moved. That would drive me NUTS with an FPS!! Is that a "real" thing that would be common with ALL IPS screens, even one with a 5ms response time? Cuz the color would be great and practical for photography, but 90% of the time I'd be using the screen for gaming!



conquerator2 said:


> Eizo Foris FS2333.
> 
> Nuff said.
> 
> I was using a 24" LED Syncmaster too and this is an awesome IPS gaming display. World's first possibly. 5 years warranty.



I've not heard of this before, tell me more


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> I guarantee that is incorrect. If you heard them, you will know that soundstage is a whole different class with open headphones, the sense of distance and realism.
> Which one? I like Andrew Bird's "Armchair Apocrypha" and Wilco's latest album. I also have a bunch of random songs for testing in a playlist I've used for a few years. I also hold CoD4 and Halo:Reach as standards for game soundwhoring.
> I don't like ones with multiple drivers. Haven't yet heard one that didn't suck.
> I'm in the same boat right now. I was thinking of getting a $300 Asus IPS off of Amazon, but then I was in Best Buy and some other IPS model they had on display (not the same one), and I saw what I guess is ghosting... When I simply scrolled the tiles in Win8 start menu, there was an effect on it that looked like the effect in that 90's TV show "Ghost Writer," the tiles had like a slime trail or shadow that trailed behind it as you moved. That would drive me NUTS with an FPS!! Is that a "real" thing that would be common with ALL IPS screens, even one with a 5ms response time? Cuz the color would be great and practical for photography, but 90% of the time I'd be using the screen for gaming!
> I've not heard of this before, tell me more


 

 I think I am going to spend a bit more and get the best one I can..might get a 21.9 one but not decided yet, I have my Samsung monitor set on game and it will have to do for now!


----------



## Evshrug

murder mike said:


> Since I PC game mainly, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 16:10 monitor. With a PS4, I would steer towards a 1080p monitor to avoid any conflicts that may occur due to scaling. I'm pretty sure the U2412M doesn't have 1:1 scaling and will stretch the image to fit the screen when the source isn't in a 16:10 compatible resolution.



The Asus monitor I looked has a 1:1 scaling option. The whole reason I'm looking at new monitors right now is my x1050 monitor from Dell won't play with my PS4, even when I manually set it for 720p.



mad lust envy said:


> The XB1 is even bigger, heavier and dorkier looking when worn.
> 
> The Wii U looks the easiest on the head.



*Que dorky laughter*
Omg I love you guyz. I tried explaining what we're talking about to my two buddies, and they were like WTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EV?!?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> *Que dorky laughter*
> Omg I love you guyz. I tried explaining what we're talking about to my two buddies, and they were like WTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT EV?!?


 
  
 But... but... but... I thought WE were your buddies. *sniffle*


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> But... but... but... I thought WE were your buddies. *sniffle*



You are! You're just... not literally in the same house with me at the moment. Tho I just left to pick up pizza... Anchovies and spinach.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Which one? I like Andrew Bird's "Armchair Apocrypha" and Wilco's latest album. I also have a bunch of random songs for testing in a playlist I've used for a few years. I also hold CoD4 and Halo:Reach as standards for game soundwhoring.


 
 Ocean Colour scene, Mosely Shoals. It seemed to really bring out the best in my headphones. Theres a wide range of frequencies, it also made good use of the soundstage and there are also a few parts where they pan between ears. Plus I love that album anyway.
  
 Unfortunately a few years ago my CD case was stolen, so my friend made me some copies of the albums I had lost which he had in his collection (grey area, technically I own them, but some... person ran off with them). Unfortunately, I think some of them have been ripped/copied at a lower quality. I want to re-buy the CD's I lost. The last few years I haven't bought many CD's (or movies for that matter) as games had taken priority. I think I'm going to get back into buying more music again, especially since over the last year I've upgraded to an AV receiver and decent speakers. Before that I was using RCA to a cheap 3.5mm female to female adapter which connected to Logitech speakers. I'd have to swap the RCA connectors every time I switched source and it would cut out so I'd have to fiddle about with it to get sound. It was awful!


----------



## opteamist

axelcloris said:


> I personally find the HD6x0 models very comfortable. The oval shaped cups do a great job of hugging behind your ears and hold the headphone in place. From memory, I feel that the A40 has a smaller opening in the pads than the Sennheisers. I can't speak to the X1, as I've not experienced it yet.
> 
> Have you tried stretching the headband over some books for several hours? That often helps reduce clamping and improve comfort. I've had to do this with some headphones.


 
 Yes same here, I have the HD 600's and it's incredibly comfortable compared to the A40s. I should have clarified that I was more worried about the height between the headband and the ear cups being too short. I have a huge 24" head. I don't know how I managed to wear the A40s for quite a bit before I stopped, I guess my head just grew... that's what she said (couldn't help myself). I'm about to just say F it and pick up the HE-400, since it might benefit me more with my genre; deep house (other EDM), metal, hip-hop, etc.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> You are! You're just... not literally in the same house with me at the moment. Tho I just left to pick up pizza... Anchovies and spinach.


 
  
 Sounds like a tasty pizza to me. I haven't had much pizza in the past 3 months since I'm doing the low-carb thing. But that's going to be put on hold most of this month since I'm traveling around awesome foodie areas: Toronto, Niagara Falls, Chicago, Boston...
  


opteamist said:


> Yes same here, I have the HD 600's and it's incredibly comfortable compared to the A40s. I should have clarified that I was more worried about the height between the headband and the ear cups being too short. I don't know how I managed to wear the A40s for quite a bit before I stopped, I guess my head just grew... that's what she said (couldn't help myself). I'm about to just say F it and pick up the HE-400, since it might benefit me more with my genre; deep house (other EDM), metal, hip-hop, etc.


 
  
 Make sure you have an amp that can push the HE-400, but I hear they're excellent for EDM. My first HiFiMan will probably be the HE-400i later this year should the bug bite me again (and it usually does). I've heard of comfort issues with the weight of the current HiFiMan lines and that's one of the things they've striven to resolve with the new models.
  
 If you're worried about the distance from headband to cups being too small, check MLEs reviews for comfort notes. His head is a bit larger and he sometimes has to fully extend headphone arms. If he says something is comfortable then you'll generally have a decent amount of room to play.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> You are! You're just... not literally in the same house with me at the moment. Tho I just left to pick up pizza... Anchovies and spinach.


 
  
 Soooo, you're saying we should be glad we're not in the same house as you at the moment?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> You are! You're just... not literally in the same house with me at the moment. Tho I just left to pick up pizza... Anchovies and spinach.




Headfi friends may be dorky, but we enjoy what we have. 



I still enjoy my broken DNA PROS.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


> You could have a look at the asus xonar essence stx and the phoebus!


 
 If I do end up needing an amp I'd prefer a stand alone unit.


stillhart said:


> I've been meaning to put together a stanbdardized list.  For now, I have a few albums that I've listened to a LOT over the years, which I ripped to FLAC for testing:  Shpongle "Are You Shpongled?" is one of my all-time favorite albums and it's great for testing detail because the music is so layered; detailed headphones bring out sounds you didn't even know were there. Bonobo "Days to Come" (picked for familiarity) and Hiromi's Sonicbloom "Beyond Standard" (jazz!!!) are two of the others.  I need to find one or two more that have more variety.


 
 I don't know if I've heard of any of these bands/acts. You have given me some investigating to do 


conquerator2 said:


> Eizo Foris FS2333.
> 
> Nuff said.


 
 Was looking at that monitor too. It was a tough decision but I was torn between that as an IPS option and the BenQ XL2420T as a 144Hz option (although, for some reason it says in the menu, optimal display is 1920X1080 @ 120Hz). I decided that I was more interested to see 120Hz+ in action than an IPS. Still wonder about it though. Mind you the picture quality of the BenQ is pretty nice and has the least amount of motion blur/ghosting I've experienced.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> If I do end up needing an amp I'd prefer a stand alone unit




What's your budget?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> What's your budget?


 
 Not set aside a budget yet. I don't really know enough about headphone amps to know what is a reasonable price for a particular feature set. I need to do some research.
  
 At the moment I don't know if I'll actually need one, but knowing what I'm like I'll be looking to buy one in future as my interest grows.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> Not set aside a budget yet. I don't really know enough about headphone amps to know what is a reasonable price for a particular feature set. I need to do some research.
> 
> At the moment I don't know if I'll actually need one, but knowing what I'm like I'll be looking to buy one in future as my interest grows.




Just my opinion, but the PC360 may not be the best choice to start spending money on a dedicated amo. Wait until you get a headphone that scales better to do all that...

Again, just my opinion...


----------



## opteamist

axelcloris said:


> Make sure you have an amp that can push the HE-400, but I hear they're excellent for EDM. My first HiFiMan will probably be the HE-400i later this year should the bug bite me again (and it usually does). I've heard of comfort issues with the weight of the current HiFiMan lines and that's one of the things they've striven to resolve with the new models.
> 
> If you're worried about the distance from headband to cups being too small, check MLEs reviews for comfort notes. His head is a bit larger and he sometimes has to fully extend headphone arms. If he says something is comfortable then you'll generally have a decent amount of room to play.


 
  
 Just placed the order! This will be my first HiFiMan product and can't wait to try them out. From the looks of it HiFiMan cares about their true source of income, customers and continue to make revisions while having a diverse line of cans at an affordable price. On paper the HE-400i looks great but the headband just didn't do it for me. Even though I like to keep my headphones diverse with no more than one pair per manufacture, the HE-560 are calling for me. And Perhaps give it more thought when they are available and reviewed.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Just my opinion, but the PC360 may not be the best choice to start spending money on a dedicated amo. Wait until you get a headphone that scales better to do all that...
> 
> Again, just my opinion...


 
 Well, I'm still intending to buy the Mixamp. I was initially looking to buy a mic to pair with my headphones. The BoomPro is incompatible and the Modmic will be expensive to get over to where I live, also if I was going to get the Modmic, I'd wait for version 4.0.
  
 I thought about buying a set of headphones that would be BoomPro compatible, but pretty much all the headphones I was interested to try aren't. The PC 360's seemed a good choice as most people seem to rate it positively. Someone said they had tried the PC 360's and hated them. It was suggested that they would benefit from use of an amp, which is the only reason I was considering one.
  
 I'm still tempted to go with the 360's and Mixamp initially as I want the Mixamp anyway. Should the PC 360's require more power, I can get an amp (was eyeing up the EHP-02) which will be good for future use. The reason I selected the PC 360's is because out of all the gaming headsets they seem to receive the most praise for audio quality. I'm just getting tired of the hassle of finding a mic and this is the compromise I'm most happy with in prospect.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Soooo, you're saying we should be glad we're not in the same house as you at the moment?



I'm glad to be here. Feeling pretty full 



mad lust envy said:


> Headfi friends may be dorky, but we enjoy what we have.
> 
> I still enjoy my broken DNA PROS.



Dedication!
I'm back to using the headphones I bought from you, and still lovin the livin daylights outta them


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> Ocean Colour scene, Mosely Shoals. It seemed to really bring out the best in my headphones.



I'm listening to the iTunes samples (they're pretty long now), and I like it on my Q701's (now back to stock pads), and I like it too! After the first song though, I hooked up my E12 and turned on the crossfeed though, cuz it's a little TOO mixed for speakers, and a little TOO stereo, if you know what I mean, but their musicianship is awesome and they have a really cool sound


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I'm listening to the iTunes samples (they're pretty long now), and I like it on my Q701's (now back to stock pads), and I like it too! After the first song though, I hooked up my E12 and turned on the crossfeed though, cuz it's a little TOO mixed for speakers, and a little TOO stereo, if you know what I mean, but their musicianship is awesome and they have a really cool sound


 
 Yeah, I know what you mean with the being too stereo thing, although I like it in a way as it demonstrates the sound stage well. I've listened to some of their other stuff and for me it was a bit more hit and miss, but that album is gold to me.


----------



## Evshrug

What headphones are you using again? X1's?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> What headphones are you using again? X1's?


 
 I'm using K240 mk II's (my first, what I'd call, decent set of headphones).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oppo is releasing the PM-1 in the middle of this month for $1099. They also mentioned something new:

The PM-2. Same design, same everything, but using cheaper parts (plastic instead of whatever metal), pleather instead of lambskin leather. It will cost $699. That number sounds way more reasonable than $1099 for the same sound with stronger build.

The thing that gets me is that Oppo will ALSO have option velour pads for these. That just made me REALLY wanna try them. The only full-sized headphones I'd ever consider now are planarmagnetic. 400i sounds more ideal at $500 though.


----------



## Change is Good

No more dynamics? Not even a Fidelio X2?!? *sigh*


----------



## HiCZoK

Ok dropped dreams of wireless. Now detachable cable is a priority and comfort.
What is my replacement for call! ? Possibly in 100 range. Warm, fun, bassy but not bass only. Similiar to how call sound i guess but maybe more fun if possible.
No mic or detachable. Would be nice if worked with consoles but if not then I will connect via analog no problem. Virtual surround is also not what i am looking for. 
So in short i am looking for next step after cal with more comfort and detachable cord Thanks !
edit: Just a suggestion. It's a bit over priced but how is sound blaster evo? On the paper it covers all my needs.. but somehow I expect it to sound bad
edit2:somehow creative/sound blaster is what I always end up with


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope... I'm nearing my end when it comes to headphone purchases, though a lot can be attributed to bad decisions, and low wages.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hiczok said:


> Ok dropped dreams of wireless. Now detachable cable is a priority and comfort.
> What is my replacement for call! ? Possibly in 100 range. Warm, fun, bassy but not bass only. Similiar to how call sound i guess but maybe more fun if possible.
> No mic or detachable. Would be nice if worked with consoles but if not then I will connect via analog no problem. Virtual surround is also not what i am looking for.
> So in short i am looking for next step after cal with more comfort and detachable cord Thanks !
> ...




Skullcandy Slyr.


----------



## Evshrug

Btw:


axelcloris said:


> I have no idea how you even think this will be comfortable. Why on earth would you want this thing, MLE? I imagine it'll be extremely side heavy and put a TON of pressure on the top of your skull. No thanks!




You callin my girlfriend FAT?!?
:mad:

(She can pressure my mind sometimes)


----------



## HiCZoK

mad lust envy said:


> Skullcandy Slyr.


 
 looks interesting but I forgot to mention that I absolutely can't stand soft cloth earpads. They get old skin and dust all over and are very itchy to me. I need something leather/y. But other than that those looked kinda ok


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I've not heard of this before, tell me more


 
  
 Nor did I.
 It is a 24" IPS based [well it uses a Samsung PLS panel, which is the same thing] gaming monitor. Has the fastest input time response of all the IPS screens I've looked at and it even has some gaming oriented functions.
 Oh and compared to my previous TN panel, the picture is vibrant and beautiful.
 It has an industrial design, so no glitters but it is practical and works really well. 5 years warranty and zero dead pixel guarantee on top of that.
  
 Here is all you need - http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2012/review-eizo-foris-fs2333-bk.html#Introduction
  
 Needless to say, I am absolutely happy! The colors just pop and it's amazing for gaming.


----------



## Hailin

hiczok said:


> Ok dropped dreams of wireless. Now detachable cable is a priority and comfort.
> What is my replacement for call! ? Possibly in 100 range. Warm, fun, bassy but not bass only. Similiar to how call sound i guess but maybe more fun if possible.
> No mic or detachable. Would be nice if worked with consoles but if not then I will connect via analog no problem. Virtual surround is also not what i am looking for.
> So in short i am looking for next step after cal with more comfort and detachable cord Thanks !
> ...




How about the CAL2!? If you like the Cal! 1 why not just stick with the same brand, headphone line. Reviews say they sound similar, has leather, and a detachable cable with a mic. 

Edit due to being near a computer finally: Also I would love to hear these with the alpha pads. The comfort would be amazing because those pads are. I imagine (don't know personally) it would improve the soundstage and sub bass due to their thickness and depth.

Napalm you are sort of giving away your age with recommending OCS. Which by the way are a wonderful group and that album is amazing. They were part of the '90 Britpop invasion Along with Blur, Oasis, Pulp, Maniac Street Preachers, and Happy Mondays, etc etc etc. All amazing groups. I am a bit of a britophile.


----------



## Hailin

mad lust envy said:


> Oppo is releasing the PM-1 in the middle of this month for $1099. They also mentioned something new:
> 
> The PM-2. Same design, same everything, but using cheaper parts (plastic instead of whatever metal), pleather instead of lambskin leather. It will cost $699. That number sounds way more reasonable than $1099 for the same sound with stronger build.
> 
> The thing that gets me is that Oppo will ALSO have option velour pads for these. That just made me REALLY wanna try them. The only full-sized headphones I'd ever consider now are planarmagnetic. 400i sounds more ideal at $500 though.


 
 Sorry for not multi-quoting. One was done on my phone other on a comp. 
  
 I think I am reaching the same level as you MLE. I mean down the road there are some dynamics I would like to get back, HD598 (Best soundstage my ears have ever heard), CAL!2 (just to try). I will like you always have a Koss KSC75/35 in my collection due to their price, ease of use and comfort. If I come into a bunch of money a TH900. (who wouldn't?)
  
 There is just something about the imaging on a planar that can't be recreated with a dynamic driver. It is something special. That is why I am excited about the 400i and 560. Finally Planars that don't weigh so damn much it gives me sore neck. Why on earth did Audeze go even heavier with the XC? I would have loved to keep the 400 but it is easily the most uncomfortable headphone I have personally ever tried, next to the Sony Elite Headset. (That thing is HORRID).
  
 Right now I am all focused on getting the 400i and a more capable amp. Denon line or AudioGD wolfson not sure which but it will be the last amp I ever buy. So focused I am thinking of selling my MadDog 3.0 with alphas and DT990 600ohm after a pad change. Only thing that holds me back is the damn Canadian postage, things are bad up here and getting worse as far as postage is concerned. I would be even willing to trade straight across for a pair of HD598s. But I am not going to rush into anything. 
  
 Sorry for staying away for so long. Just thought I would drop in and say a few words and a hello.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey Hailin!
Long time no see!
Sounds like a good plan, but FWIH the CAL!2 no longer has a Fostex driver and is actually a step back... I don't have any more details than that, so if you're interested in the headphone I advise you to read some reviews first.


Conq,
I looked at that monitor, it had some nice things but Amazon reviews lead me to believe that you only get those low pixel response times when you have the screen in overdrive mode, and that it looks bad that way. The 5 year warranty does seem to almost offset the high price.

I think I'm gonna go with a $160 23" Asus IPS, with 5ms native pixel response time, especially since 4k and g-sync screens are just around the corner


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Hey Hailin!
> Long time no see!
> Sounds like a good plan, but FWIH the CAL!2 no longer has a Fostex driver and is actually a step back... I don't have any more details than that, so if you're interested in the headphone I advise you to read some reviews first.
> 
> ...


 
 Evshrug will you tell me the make and model of the asus monitor you are looking at..i might get a asus one..thanks!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Hey Hailin!
> Long time no see!
> Sounds like a good plan, but FWIH the CAL!2 no longer has a Fostex driver and is actually a step back... I don't have any more details than that, so if you're interested in the headphone I advise you to read some reviews first.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the overdrive set to off all the time and on the contrary, the Prad review says that the response time is fast even without it.
 But suit yourself :]
  
 About the Asus, their panels are somewhat unreliable [and I have to attest to that from personal experience] but if you get a good one, it's by no means slouchy,
 Id look into the Dell U2412M and Asus PA238Q as worthy alternatives


----------



## HiCZoK

hailin said:


> How about the CAL2!? If you like the Cal! 1 why not just stick with the same brand, headphone line. Reviews say they sound similar, has leather, and a detachable cable with a mic.
> 
> Edit due to being near a computer finally: Also I would love to hear these with the alpha pads. The comfort would be amazing because those pads are. I imagine (don't know personally) it would improve the soundstage and sub bass due to their thickness and depth.
> 
> Napalm you are sort of giving away your age with recommending OCS. Which by the way are a wonderful group and that album is amazing. They were part of the '90 Britpop invasion Along with Blur, Oasis, Pulp, Maniac Street Preachers, and Happy Mondays, etc etc etc. All amazing groups. I am a bit of a britophile.


 
 Yeah cal2 looks great I am just afraid that headband is as uncomfortable as in original cal and it looks plastic. Wonder how durable it is. Detachable cable is a great thing tho and those pads don't exactly look memory foam comfortable, but look nice enough. the price is a bit step here in Poland but not out of the reach


----------



## Hailin

evshrug said:


> Hey Hailin!
> Long time no see!
> Sounds like a good plan, but FWIH the CAL!2 no longer has a Fostex driver and is actually a step back... I don't have any more details than that, so if you're interested in the headphone I advise you to read some reviews first.


 
 Thanks Evs. 
  
 Actually both the CAL and CAL2  have 40mm biocellulose Foster 399317 drivers.
  CAL1
  
CAL2 (Courtesy of Kingpage and his CAL2 review.)
 Sorry just want to avoid any confusion.
  
 EDIT: I just want to add it doesn't mean that the CAL2 is better or worse though because there are so many variables in the housing and pads. I am in process of ordering one now as I want to see how different they are. I sorta feel I am talking out my buttock and should have some real world experience because I honestly want to hear it with my own ears.  Now to find free shipping. lol


----------



## HiCZoK

hmmm same driver? Then whats the point of spending twice as much as for cal1 ?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hi guys. I was wondering if someone knows off the top of your head if you can buy after market ear pads for K240 mkii's, I've tried searching but couldn't find anything relevant. I thought I'd ask here seeing how I already post in this thread and didn't want to start a thread over such a small thing, especially if someone here knows.


----------



## Change is Good

Contact Frank at AKG parts


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Contact Frank at AKG parts


 
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, same drivers for CAL2, interesting. 

Still, I have heard unanimously that the CAL2 sounds worse, and has even more bass than the first. Considering the CAL was already bassy, not sure it's the way I would've went.


----------



## calpis

napalmhardcore said:


> Hi guys. I was wondering if someone knows off the top of your head if you can buy after market ear pads for K240 mkii's, I've tried searching but couldn't find anything relevant. I thought I'd ask here seeing how I already post in this thread and didn't want to start a thread over such a small thing, especially if someone here knows.


 
 IIRC, try looking for K271 pads.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

calpis said:


> IIRC, try looking for K271 pads.


 
 Will do, thank  you.


----------



## Hailin

hiczok said:


> hmmm same driver? Then whats the point of spending twice as much as for cal1 ?


 
 Well I guess that would depend on where you live. In Canada the damn things are only $20 apart so for the better build and pads, plus I already have a CAL1 I figured what the hell.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Oh, same drivers for CAL2, interesting.
> 
> Still, I have heard unanimously that the CAL2 sounds worse, and has even more bass than the first. Considering the CAL was already bassy, not sure it's the way I would've went.


 
 Yah I can't see you enjoying them if they are even bassier.
  
 I know Tyll has been brought up a lot as not liking them and I haven't been at this for a super long time but long enough I know I need to find out for myself. I could get them and they could very well suck, lol. But what the hell, that is what return policies are for.
 Plus I have to see if the alpha pads fit just for fun! 
 I wouldn't mind a tiny bit more bass but if I wanted super bass I would just order the JVC SZ2000. That headphone is apparently at the point of eardrum deafening. No thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Evshrug will you tell me the make and model of the asus monitor you are looking at..i might get a asus one..thanks!


 
 see below
  
  


conquerator2 said:


> I have the overdrive set to off all the time and on the contrary, the Prad review says that the response time is fast even without it.
> But suit yourself :]
> 
> About the Asus, their panels are somewhat unreliable [and I have to attest to that from personal experience] but if you get a good one, it's by no means slouchy,
> Id look into the Dell U2412M and Asus PA238Q as worthy alternatives


 
 I was looking at the Asus PA2*4*8Q, slightly less wide color gamut than the 23" you linked but it's an inch bigger and about $100 cheaper ($110 with rebate). However... what I came around to deciding is that 4k displays are going to get more affordable soon, models with NVIDIA G-Sync will come out, and IPS will continue maturing. I do want a monitor NOW, but I decided to go with the more modest Asus VS239H-P that only costs $160, and I can turn sideways to use as a second monitor once either a must-have new tech display comes out that my GTX660 can make good use with, or once I have clients/need for a professional 27" 4k monitor (which I'll probably want a new graphics card to drive). The VS239H-P ought to be very good with my PS4 and PC.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> see below
> 
> 
> I was looking at the Asus PA2*4*8Q, slightly less wide color gamut than the 23" you linked but it's an inch bigger and about $100 cheaper ($110 with rebate). However... what I came around to deciding is that 4k displays are going to get more affordable soon, models with NVIDIA G-Sync will come out, and IPS will continue maturing. I do want a monitor NOW, but I decided to go with the more modest Asus VS239H-P that only costs $160, and I can turn sideways to use as a second monitor once either a must-have new tech display comes out that my GTX660 can make good use with, or once I have clients/need for a professional 27" 4k monitor (which I'll probably want a new graphics card to drive). The VS239H-P ought to be very good with my PS4 and PC.


 
 As long as your choice makes you happy


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> As long as your choice makes you happy


 
  
 Nothing makes him happy.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Nothing makes him happy.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> Nothing makes him happy.


 
 Contentment is the enemy of progress. That's how I justify never being happy anyway


----------



## Murder Mike

G-sync and 4k (for gaming) are still a ways off from even being remotely mature so I say you made a good choice. And the Asus can always be used as a desk display for PS3/4 and/or secondary monitor.


----------



## HiCZoK

srsly... nothing makes me totally happy too... for 2 past years I had fatality mkII(best memory cushions), tactic3d sigma(best headband cushion), some creative something and now CAL!(which is best of those and I own it for year) but its headband is terribly uncomfortable and it seems CAL2! have the same headband


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know what makes me happy?



Image taken from google, lol.

Vornado 660.

Bought this on impulse, and because I was soooo sick of my huge box fan that barely pushes air and sounds obnoxiously loud.

This fan quite literally pushes so much air, its second lowest setting can be felt in the entire room, and is really quiet for a fan. The two highest settings sound like a normal fan, but the entire room is circulating air like the AC is on at all times. I'm blown away by how good it is.

I can't believe it's taken me this long to actively do my homework on good fans. I don't think I'll ever sweat again in my room.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> You know what makes me happy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You look different in that pic.
  
 I want one!
  
 Edit: BTW, I spotted the part about the pic being from Google but deliberately ignored it for the purpose of making the joke. It's the first thing I thought when I saw the picture


----------



## Murder Mike

If I lived in Florida, that's the first thing I would have bought. I hate sweating


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My AC is constantly on around 70-71, and my huge fan was on the mid-hi at all times. If it were quieter, I'd have put it on max, but the damn thing would drown out even good speakers. The Vornado is sooooo much cooler and quieter, and if I ever get hot, I have two more stronger settings, which really move air in the room. I literally have the fan aimed at a corner of the room, and feel the air as if the ac was coming from that corner of the room.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> My AC is constantly on around 70-71, and my huge fan was on the mid-hi at all times. If it were quieter, I'd have put it on max, but the damn thing would drown out even good speakers. The Vornado is sooooo much cooler and quieter, and if I ever get hot, I have two more stronger settings, which really move air in the room. I literally have the fan aimed at a corner of the room, and feel the air as if the ac was coming from that corner of the room.


 
 I need one because summer is on its way and I'm fat.


----------



## Murder Mike

That's awesome. Time to add it to the slickdeals alerts with summer coming up.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> see below
> 
> 
> I was looking at the Asus PA2*4*8Q, slightly less wide color gamut than the 23" you linked but it's an inch bigger and about $100 cheaper ($110 with rebate). However... what I came around to deciding is that 4k displays are going to get more affordable soon, models with NVIDIA G-Sync will come out, and IPS will continue maturing. I do want a monitor NOW, but I decided to go with the more modest Asus VS239H-P that only costs $160, and I can turn sideways to use as a second monitor once either a must-have new tech display comes out that my GTX660 can make good use with, or once I have clients/need for a professional 27" 4k monitor (which I'll probably want a new graphics card to drive). The VS239H-P ought to be very good with my PS4 and PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its great. At first I had it aimed at the ceiling directly over my bed, but damn... it was like a draft...

I recommend aiming at at a wall near you.

It literally sends out an air beam, so you DONT want it aimed directly at you, lol.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

For the purpose of one-upmanship I may have to order one of these.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> As long as your choice makes you happy


 
 Satisfies me for now, but those really in-depth reviews are a great resource
  


axelcloris said:


> Nothing makes him happy.


 
 Eh
 *shrug*
  
 ...
 Did I tell you about how you can type faster with a PS4 controller than the other consoles?
   
 Quote:


napalmhardcore said:


> Contentment is the enemy of progress. That's how I justify never being happy anyway


 
 I have a similar theory about pessimists... they just believe things can be better. Also a great line in Muse's "Hoodoo" where they say _I've had recurring nightmares/ where I was loved for who I am/ lost the opportunity to be a better man..._
  


murder mike said:


> G-sync and 4k (for gaming) are still a ways off from even being remotely mature so I say you made a good choice. And the Asus can always be used as a desk display for PS3/4 and/or secondary monitor.


 
 Thanks, that's the plan 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> You know what makes me happy?
> 
> Vornado 660.
> 
> ...


 
 LOL


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I have a similar theory about pessimists... they just believe things can be better. Also a great line in Muse's "Hoodoo" where they say _I've had recurring nightmares/ where I was loved for who I am/ lost the opportunity to be a better man..._


 
  
 Jeez, you're even optimistic about pessimists!  Your kind sicken me.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Hardware with G-sync is supposed to be available this year. What makes you (not Ev specifically) think it needs time to mature?  Is it because there will be software issues?  I'd think the Nvidia drivers would take care of that.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I have a similar theory about pessimists... they just believe things can be better. Also a great line in Muse's "Hoodoo" where they say _I've had recurring nightmares/ where I was loved for who I am/ lost the opportunity to be a better man..._


 
 The problem with my post is it makes me sound like someone that is striving to be a better person. In reality it's a lie, I just want better stuff lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DEKITA!

MMMMMM, DAT COMFORT.

Clearer, less bassy, and more balanced than the quite warm HS-15. I think we have a winner.


----------



## conquerator2

Ultrasone and balanced?! You gotta be kitten me -_-


----------



## Evshrug

It's good that he reviewed it, but the poor guy... That was like one of the least professional reviews I've seen in a while, but at least it was honest.

When I get it, I'll let you know what I think.




stillhart said:


> Jeez, you're even optimistic about pessimists!  Your kind sicken me.  :angry_face:
> 
> Hardware with G-sync is supposed to be available this year. What makes you (not Ev specifically) think it needs time to mature?  Is it because there will be software issues?  I'd think the Nvidia drivers would take care of that.



Oh I know it was later this year. Right now you can only get it as a mod for one of the Asus monitors, but "mature" would be less expensive and built-in  the Asus ROG monitor looks like it'll be nice, but I'm not gonna spend $800 on a monitor 

Rather spend it on an awesome DAC/amp


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> Ultrasone and balanced?! You gotta be kitten me -_-


 
  
 "More balanced." I read that as still not balanced, but more so than the closed version. It probably still has its curves.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> Ultrasone and balanced?! You gotta be kitten me -_-




I know. Its not normal, but these ARE old, lol. Sones are known for being bright aggressive and super bassy. The 15 was warm, non fatiguing, though bassy. The 15g is still on the bassy side, but fast bass, more neutral in tone, and still a little peaky in the treble. Still as far as Sones go, this is my favorite in terms of balance.

A lot less fatiguing and glaring than the Pro 900 and 2900. The HS15 isn't fatiguing in the least.

The 15g would compare well to the PX100-ii, being clearer and more spacious. The pX100-ii has a wall of sound in comparison.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I know. Its not normal, but these ARE old, lol. Sones are known for being bright aggressive and super bassy. The 15 was warm, non fatiguing, though bassy. The 15g is still on the bassy side, but fast bass, more neutral in tone, and still a little peaky in the treble. Still as far as Sones go, this is my favorite in terms of balance.
> 
> A lot less fatiguing and glaring than the Pro 900 and 2900. The HS15 isn't fatiguing in the least.
> 
> The 15g would compare well to the PX100-ii, being clearer and more spacious. The pX100-ii has a wall of sound in comparison.




Good I was getting worried that Ultrasone started producing good headphones for reasonable prices.
Phew, no apocalypse then 
Also, glad you're liking them ^_^


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> DEKITA!
> 
> MMMMMM, DAT COMFORT.
> 
> Clearer, less bassy, and more balanced than the quite warm HS-15. I think we have a winner.


 
  
 Might as well hand that over when the AKGs arrive...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It is a good headphone, lol. Its not your typical polarizing Sone. Im guessing with the advent of Beats, that was the point where they aggressively tuned their line. Since the 15g is much, much older, it is a much more ear friendly headphone.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Oh I know it was later this year. Right now you can only get it as a mod for one of the Asus monitors, but "mature" would be less expensive and built-in
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 $800?  Valhalla/Bifrost FTW!
  
 BTW, I finally pulled the trigger on an amp for my Q701.  I'm so bad at being responsible with my money...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> It is a good headphone, lol. Its not your typical polarizing Sone. Im guessing with the advent of Beats, that was the point where they aggressively tuned their line. Since the 15g is much, much older, it is a much more ear friendly headphone.


 
  
 I like how you ignored me just then lol


----------



## AxelCloris

The Beyerdynamic DX 160 iE has arrived. I have them for testing for the next two weeks. First impressions, piano sounds quite nice for a ~$100 dynamic IEM. And I'm glad they come with a pair of Comply tips, as I much prefer foam to silicon tips. Better seal, better overall sound.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> The *Beyerdynamic DX 160 iE has arrived*. I have them for testing for the next two weeks. First impressions, piano sounds quite nice for a ~$100 dynamic IEM. And I'm glad they come with a pair of Comply tips, as I much prefer foam to silicon tips. Better seal, better overall sound.


 
  
 Interesting...
  
 When I get out of this financial whole I might look into these. I want an IEM that is easier to travel with..
  
 The H3 is a bit bulky and too scratch prone to take with me on campus, everyday...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, Change, I'll eventually send them out.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, Change, I'll eventually send them out.


 
  
 Eventually?!?
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I just attached it to the Mixamp, and the Mixamp is fully maxed out on the game side and master volume, and it's just to the point of being loud.

Yes, these are hard to drive to loud volumes.


----------



## Change is Good

Just messaged u on PSN. Log into twitch and stream some COD... I'm bored


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry, it was a quick test. I have to go see my bro. He leaves to go back to his army post tomorrow.


----------



## sanj

would be good to add k550/551 in future


----------



## Change is Good

sanj said:


> would be good to add k550/551 in future




Sure, we'll get right on it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I thought the K550 was terrible from the demos...


----------



## sanj

browsing this forums, looking at reviews they seem to be one of the best closed headphones, i am curious how would they perform in competitive gaming


----------



## calpis

I've been using Vornado fans since around 2002. My first one, a 10in-ish model, was great and I had it on for literally 2 years and it never had any issues. I bought their tower fan a few years ago, which broke down after 2 years but they sent me a replacement within 3 days on their dime. It's only an okay fan but still better than the majority. Their circulars are the best and worth their pricier price tag.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo gents,
  
 I've been using Evshrugs Mix-AMp 5.8 for a day now and I like it. The surround processing is batter than that of my NAD, and is quite three dimensional. I was playing Ground Zeros and head enemies driving up behind me in a jeep... behind me.. I was taken aback by that. It does have this binaural presentation to it. 
  
 Though I had to purchase an adapter to use my mic with it as the mic input on the Astro is for a 2.5mm headset. Though my 360's headset now works on my PS4..
  
 I might keep it..... *runs away screaming SNAAAAKE!!!*


----------



## Change is Good

zombie_x said:


> Yo gents,
> 
> I've been using Evshrugs Mix-AMp 5.8 for a day now and I like it. The surround processing is batter than that of my NAD, and is quite three dimensional. I was playing Ground Zeros and head enemies driving up behind me in a jeep... behind me.. I was taken aback by that. It does have this binaural presentation to it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Meet me on the battlefield!!!
  

  
 ^Going to be using this setup for a while since I'll be sending off my K612 and E12, soon...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never thought I'd ever see Zombie praising Dolby Headphone. THE WORLD IS ENDING.


----------



## Change is Good

I just wanted to throw this out there... people are sleeping on the M500...
  
 Really wish I didn't have to sell it. I'm packing it up so I won't be tempted to listen to it, anymore...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I just wanted to throw this out there... people are sleeping on the M500...
> 
> Really wish I didn't have to sell it. I'm packing it up so I won't be tempted to listen to it, anymore...


 
  
 I've heard that the M500 is like a portable, more efficient Mad Dog. Any truth behind this?


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I've heard that the M500 is like a portable, more efficient Mad Dog. Any truth behind this?




I say that's fairly accurate if they're talking about the 3.2.

I have to say it extends a bit further in the lower frequencies, though... with slightly more coloration. Mids are nice and slightly forward like the MDs. Highs are as smooth as butter without being recessed... while still maintaining good clarity and instrument separation. And, oh, soundstage is the largest I've heard out of an on-ear, though I've only previously owned the M80 and Amperior in that regard.


----------



## Change is Good

Okay, we just wasted a whole hour trying to get chat to work on the PS4 for Zombie through the 5.8 with just the BoomPro. Not working... 

It seems the PS3 usb chat cable is faulty... because chat isn't working on his PS3, either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Time for a turtle beach ps4 chat cable then....


----------



## Evshrug

zombie_x said:


> Yo gents,
> 
> I've been using Evshrugs Mixamp 5.8 for a day now and I like it. The surround processing is better than that of my NAD, and is quite three dimensional. I was playing Ground Zeros and heard enemies driving up behind me in a jeep... behind me.. I was taken aback by that. It does have this binaural presentation to it.



*Hearing it "in the flesh" is different from samples, which is why I wanted you to be able to at least hear it since you weren't liking DH before. I don't know why your NAD doesn't do it as well as a Mixamp...*



> Though I had to purchase an adapter to use my mic with it as the mic input on the Astro is for a 2.5mm headset. Though my 360's headset now works on my PS4..
> 
> I might keep it......


 h34r:


> *runs away screaming SNAAAAKE!!!*



You bought a thingie for it?
The headphone jack is actually a smartphone TRRS jack. I had an adapter I forgot to send along with it that I bought separately, but if you have a BoomPro, that would fit right in there no problem. I currently have only the PS4 bundled mic thing (my Neewer mics became lost).

When you say 2.5mm output, the Mixamp directions label that jack as the connection for the chat port on an Xbox 360 controller, that's why that 2.5mm Male to Male cable is in there... I didn't think it would serve as a Playstation output too! Crazy, but... I guess it could work.



mad lust envy said:


> Never thought I'd ever see Zombie praising Dolby Headphone. THE WORLD IS ENDING.



I like Dolby Headphone too.
Why do these snowballs taste like chat and ash and the souls of the damned? Crunchy.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Time for a turtle beach ps4 chat cable then....




Lol he said he's going to try and make one. Will report back once he does...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Lol he said he's going to try and make one. Will report back once he does...


 
 I envy people who exercise such practicality. I felt proud of the fact that I changed my ear pads on my headphones without looking at a guide. I was like "yeah, who's the man?, I'm the man!"


----------



## mmencius

Hello,
  
 thank you for your extremely comprehensive guide, and thanks for continuously updating it!
  
 I'd like to get some headphones for purposes of gaming with PS3 and PS4 (I'm glad you're a console gamer... pretty much all advice on the web is given for PC gamers). I've been a musician all my life and I go to orchestral concerts quite a bit, and so I really appreciate the music in games. This is the main thing I'd like to appreciate in games: the ingame music (particularly orchestral). Apart from game music, I also really like horror games so I'd like to be very immersed and frightened while using my headphones. I don't really care about footsteps or competitive play, and don't really go for too much bass, but I guess occasionally I'd like to appreciate explosions and stuff like that. So order of my concerns are:
 1. in game orchestral music. 2. immersion for terror in horror games. 3. directional audio for the purpose of immersion (not for super accurate competitive play)... eg the Bioshock Infinite video you posted, 4. sometimes, some bass.
  
 What do you suggest? I don't want to spend too much, so I was mainly looking at:
 Sennheiser 598
 Samson SR850/Superlux HD668b
 Skullcandy PLYR 1 (wireless is nice...)
 Playstation Gold Wireless (it's probably inferior to Skullcandy, but do you think the developer-created audio modes will add much? They could be awesome...)
 Possible Astro Mixamp?
  
 Questions: 1. do you have any recommendations for my music taste? I guess it means treble and mids are more important to me than to the average person, and bass less important. I like strings most of all, so it's very important that the trebles of string music don't sound catlike (since strings are being used more and more in games too). In particular I love cello. Best sort of bass in the universe.
 2. Since the above headphones are 50 ohm, 32 ohm, 56 ohm if I recall, do I need an amp? I saw a video on Tek Syndicate indicating that most devices, even mobile, can power headphones under 80 ohms just fine.
  
 Cheers and thanks for any advice.


----------



## HiCZoK

I want something comfortable for my cal replacement !!! There must be a comfy well built not terrible headphone for around 100 bucks ***. I want to immerse myself and how to do that when the headband wants to kill You. 

Previous suggestion from 3 pages ago was cal2. It look like a great headphone but sports the same hard headband so big no

and now i want a fan too :lol:


----------



## Napalmhardcore

hiczok said:


> I want something conformed for my cal replacement !!! There must be a comfy well built not terrible heasphone for around 100 bucks ***. I want to immerse myself and how to do that when the headband wants to kill You.
> 
> Previous duggestion from 3 pages ago was cal2. It look like a great headphone but sports the same hard headband so big no
> 
> and now i want a fan too :lol:


 
 I'll be your fan. HiCZoK is awesome!!!


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> Hello,
> 
> thank you for your extremely comprehensive guide, and thanks for continuously updating it!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Personally, I'd suggest the Q701.  The soundstage, highs and mids will be great for classical.  The bass is there but it's very refined and out of the way.
  
 I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to sell you my PLYR1, but I don't know that it's the best bang for the buck unless you really want wireless.  Also, I never once used it to listen to music, just for gaming, so I can't speak to the musicality of it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You could always go for a DT880, mmencius. The DT880 pro goes for $195, and is one of the best balanced headphones out, especially if you're not TOO concerned with ultimate positional accuracy.

I haven't heard them yet, but the K612 Pro seems to be a new popular choice. My friends say it's a good all rounder, not reliant on bass, and I believe these friends.

Of course, I love the MA900, but the prices have skyrocketed, and I can't recommend spending so much for them. 

The newer K702 + some K712 pads would probably be an amazing choice. More or less the K702 Anniversary for cheaper. The K702 Anniversary is probably my favorite all rounder, and so the K702 + K712 pads would be the one I'd recommend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NyR9pWemU0[/VIDEO]

i put up some quick impressions under the video on Youtube, making some corrections about what i said in the vid (made a few mistakes).


----------



## mmencius

Thanks for your suggestions, but those are all around or over $200 + amp necessary since they're all 100+ ohm impedance.
  
 I was looking to spend a little less, preferably under $200 total, so perhaps Samson or Superlux + amp, or Sennheiser 558/598 no amp, or the PLYR 1, or the Gold.
  
 Any suggestions a bit cheaper? And do I need an amp for console gaming with headphones under 60 ohms? Information I've seen suggests no for PC due to capabilities of modern motherboards, but this might not be the case for consoles.
  
 Another thing: in addition to should I get an amp or not, do the differences make much difference? If they're just powering the headphones, do they affect the sound quality? I was under the impression that they make far less difference than the headphones themselves, but now I'm seeing amp reviews on this site...


----------



## Stillhart

The guys in the Q701 thread say the Superlux has a similar sound signature for a lot cheaper.  I haven't heard them, but if it's true, they might do the trick.
  
 Alternately, I know a guy selling a like new PLYR1 for $50 cheaper than Amazon.  *cough*


----------



## HiCZoK

People say the gold is very comfy but it lacks the bass for some and other say it's great. ..tough to know but it's wireless on consoles and on pc! But can also be wired. I want something nice playing warmish bassy but clear headphone too. And the gold is also interesting to me and right price so we are in the same boat. 
Actually i think You would love how cal! Sounds but the comfort leaves something to be desired and that's why i want to change it to something else.
cheers!


----------



## Hailin

mmencius said:


> Thanks for your suggestions, but those are all around or over $200 + amp necessary since they're all 100+ ohm impedance.
> 
> I was looking to spend a little less, preferably under $200 total, so perhaps Samson or Superlux + amp, or Sennheiser 558/598 no amp, or the PLYR 1, or the Gold.
> 
> ...


 
 I would buy the gold and never ever come back here.  Before you get caught and hooked and can never leave, until your significant other beats you to death with your credit card bill. So I am not going to give you any advice because I don't want you to get stuck in this amazing vortex of headphone wonderment. I am just messing around and welcome.  
  


stillhart said:


> The guys in the Q701 thread say the Superlux has a similar sound signature for a lot cheaper.  I haven't heard them, but if it's true, they might do the trick.
> 
> Alternately, I know a guy selling a like new PLYR1 for $50 cheaper than Amazon.  *cough*


 
 Which Superlux? I am curious Still.
  


hiczok said:


> People say the gold is very comfy but it lacks the bass for some and other say it's great. ..tough to know but it's wireless on consoles and on pc! But can also be wired. I want something nice playing warmish bassy but clear headphone too. And the gold is also interesting to me and right price so we are in the same boat.
> Actually i think You would love how cal! Sounds but the comfort leaves something to be desired and that's why i want to change it to something else.
> cheers!


 
 You have mentioned the CALs comfort a few times. Funny how everyone is so different. I think the CAL with it's HM5 earpads is right up there with my Koss KSC75 as the most comfortable headphone I own.


----------



## Stillhart

hailin said:


> Which Superlux? I am curious Still.


 
  
 Here you go:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/6300#post_10420649
  
 Superlux HD668B


----------



## Zombie_X

All attempts have failed on my end, I don't have any TRRS plugs on hand so I might have to order a TB cable for it to test chat. So far the PS3/PS4 chat cable does not work at all. When I plug it into the mix-amp, it auto mutes everyone and no one can hear me and I can't hear them. I still have audio from the PS4 itself but chat is muted. Same goes for the PS3. 
  
 I have the PS4 set-up to optical out > Dolby Digital 5.1 > output to headphones - chat > mute camera mic. I get no chat audio at all. It's a shame the PS3/PS4 chat cable is defective though...


----------



## benbenkr

stillhart said:


> Here you go:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/6300#post_10420649
> 
> Superlux HD668B


 
  
 Mostly true EXCEPT one very important thing: the HD668B is _significantly_ brighter than the Q701.
  
 I know, because I've owned the HD668b before.
 So take note all those wary to treble fatigue, because the 668b WILL pierce your ears to kingdom come.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> i put up some quick impressions under the video on Youtube, making some corrections about what i said in the vid (made a few mistakes).


 
 Totally forgot to mention but the pouch that came with the HS-15 was a gift from the seller that I bought them from and not actually included when bought new. My bad XD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gah, I'll edit the details then.


----------



## Hailin

stillhart said:


> Here you go:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/6300#post_10420649
> 
> Superlux HD668B


 
 Thanks for replying Stillhart.
 Having heard both I don't agree with that at all.
 The Q701 has that AKG house sound.
 The HD668b is a baby DT990pro Beyer with less clarity.
  
 For people starting out that is why I always suggest HD668b. It is cheap, light, with great sound that impresses a lot of people that know little to nothing about headphone audio. It will make almost everything sound good and isn't overly picky about source. The cord is cheaper then hell to replace. They lose nothing by buying it. Along with the KSC75, and CAL! they are just great starter headphones. Lets them get a taste and form their own opinions on what they want out of a headphone.


----------



## Stillhart

Well either way, the Superlux sounds like a decent choice for a starter set for someone on a budget.  I haven't heard them so I can't comment, just throwing it out there.


----------



## HiCZoK

anyone tried sony xb600? People say those are comfortable (don't look like that) and give good warm, fun sound for the buck. good replacement for cal1 ? again. I am mostly looking for comfort and durability now... plus it would be nice if the headphone/headset I am looking for was warm, fun, not sounding worse than cal1 and had good positional. Afterall its a game oriented topic
 edit: Actually there are xb600 and xb910 available in europe only. no xb800... so is 910 worth twice the price of 600?... I think I am going way off the topic here. Ignore me if I am asking way too offtopic questions and I will not post anymore


----------



## trahere

Hi folks, I got my hands on Audio Technica's ATH-ADG1 and I'm thoroughly impressed with both its comfort and audio. 
 I'm a UK PS4 gamer and pretty much play COD exclusively. At present, I'm using Turtle Beach's ACU but having previously used an older version of Astro's mix amp on PS3, I have a 2013 mix amp on order for comparison. 
 I've read on page one about external amps and wondering if any kind soul could give me a recommenddation for this set up.


----------



## Stillhart

trahere said:


> Hi folks, I got my hands on Audio Technica's ATH-ADG1 and I'm thoroughly impressed with both its comfort and audio.
> I'm a UK PS4 gamer and pretty much play COD exclusively. At present, I'm using Turtle Beach's ACU but having previously used an older version of Astro's mix amp on PS3, I have a 2013 mix amp on order for comparison.
> I've read on page one about external amps and wondering if any kind soul could give me a recommenddation for this set up.


 
  
 He has a few amp recommendations in the guide.  Any of those should work great.


----------



## DADDYDC650

Any word on a Phillips X1 successor? I would love to see how Phillips can improve on the X1.


----------



## mmencius

stillhart said:


> Personally, I'd suggest the Q701.  The soundstage, highs and mids will be great for classical.  The bass is there but it's very refined and out of the way.
> 
> I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to sell you my PLYR1, but I don't know that it's the best bang for the buck unless you really want wireless.  Also, I never once used it to listen to music, just for gaming, so I can't speak to the musicality of it.


 
  
 What do (or don't) you like about the PLYR1? I wouldn't use the PLYR1 for listening to music outside games, just in game audio. Do you have an alternative suggestion for wireless headset? I feel everyone bashes them for inferior audio, but the convenience of wireless while console gaming is pretty significant...
  
 Perhaps I would use a wireless headset exclusively for horror games (and other games with minimal music but lots of SFX and suspense etc) and use a HD668b for games whose audio is mostly characterized by excellent music (eg Shadow of the Colossus, always love going back to that )


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> What do (or don't) you like about the PLYR1? I wouldn't use the PLYR1 for listening to music outside games, just in game audio. Do you have an alternative suggestion for wireless headset? I feel everyone bashes them for inferior audio, but the convenience of wireless while console gaming is pretty significant...
> 
> Perhaps I would use a wireless headset exclusively for horror games (and other games with minimal music but lots of SFX and suspense etc) and use a HD668b for games whose audio is mostly characterized by excellent music (eg Shadow of the Colossus, always love going back to that )


 
  
 Mostly what I don't like about them is that they're closed headphones, with everythig that entails (they're a little hot and the soundstage is really compressed).  That said, they've still got great positional accuracy and pretty decent sound overall.  They're also super convenient to use and they've got the "full package" (wireless, surround, mic, stand) for a really great price.  They're a great bang for the buck.
  
 Also, I compared them to the Q701, which will put a lot of headphones to shame when it comes to gaming.  If I'd never heard the Q701, I'd probably have kept the PLYR1.  (The convenience factor of the PLYR1 can't be overstated!)  I really don't dislike the PLYR1; I just decided that it was worth spending more money and dealing with the inconvenience of wires and mixamp etc to have the Q701 for gaming.


----------



## Change is Good

And the party begins...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
  
 I slept in, and still have to run to the post office. Will be back with comparisons, later...


----------



## mmencius

benbenkr said:


> Mostly true EXCEPT one very important thing: the HD668B is _significantly_ brighter than the Q701.
> 
> I know, because I've owned the HD668b before.
> So take note all those wary to treble fatigue, because the 668b WILL pierce your ears to kingdom come.


 
 I'm thinking of getting one, or perhaps a SR850.
 Questions: 1. what exactly do you mean by bright? Do you just mean weighted towards treble, or do you mean it makes violins sound like screeching cats?
 2. these headphones are only 56 ohm, can a console drive these or will I need an amp?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> And the party begins...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Better not miss the post office today!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  lol


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Better not miss the post office today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Seller notes: Buyer was harsh, aggressive, and insinuated that I was the son of a hamster. Will not sell to again.


----------



## FIFFIF

This thread is incredible. I've been lurking it for awhile and have really appreciated the feedback folks offer on different setups. I'm currently running 2011 MixAmp, K701's and a modmic. I'm happy with the setup and don't want to change . . . but we're expecting baby #2 in June and she's going to take over my mancave.
  
 Bottom line, I have to move to something completely wireless and will need great isolation, which probably means going closed. My wife refuses to have cords running across the room or, even if packed up well, around for #1 (2 yrs. old) to find and play with. I may be able to get away with a 5.8, but that's still a lot of wires and would be pushing my luck. And the kids sleep with doors open and Dohm noisemakers on. I'm not too concerned about leakage, but I need good isolation even if it means losing some depth.
  
 I'm doing almost all of my gaming on PS3 and PS4 at the moment, so I picked up Pulse Elites and the new Gold set from Best Buy to tide me over. The Pulse Elites are incredibly uncomfortable and have already gone back. They're heavy and the headband is awful. They feel like they're going to pull hair out by the end of a long play session. I didn't keep them around long enough to give the sound a fair shake, since they clearly weren't going to work for me.
  
 The Gold's have a heinous, cheap feel but are very, very comfortable to wear. The headband is cushy. They cheap plastic construction helps in that regard, since they're not asking the headband to carry a lot of weight. The pleather cups are . . . meh. The surround is much worse than I'm used to. It's like being able to hear the four cardinal directions instead of 360 degree. Better than stereo for positioning and better than I expected overall, but that's a pretty low bar. My BF4 and Ghosts game has suffered.
  
 The PLYR is a no-go. I tried a friend's SLYR's awhile back and they were too small, didn't fit over my ears well. PLYR will, I figure, have the same problem.
  
 Given my constraints, what's the best that I can do to get reasonable sound quality? I'm going to take a huge sound quality hit. No way to avoid it. Gaming forums drool over the Astro's, but MLE's review has me reluctant to pull the trigger. Cost isn't really an issue. I'll be able to cover pretty much all of a new setup by selling my current kit off. That said, I don't want to pay full freight for something "high end" (sigh) like A50's or Steel Series H if they're not actually and noticeably better than the Golds.


----------



## Hailin

fiffif said:


> This thread is incredible. I've been lurking it for awhile and have really appreciated the feedback folks offer on different setups. I'm currently running 2011 MixAmp, K701's and a modmic. I'm happy with the setup and don't want to change . . . but we're expecting baby #2 in June and she's going to take over my mancave.
> 
> Bottom line, I have to move to something completely wireless and will need great isolation, which probably means going closed. My wife refuses to have cords running across the room or, even if packed up well, around for #1 (2 yrs. old) to find and play with. I may be able to get away with a 5.8, but that's still a lot of wires and would be pushing my luck. And the kids sleep with doors open and Dohm noisemakers on. I'm not too concerned about leakage, but I need good isolation even if it means losing some depth.
> 
> ...


 
 First off congratulations!!!!
 Do you live in the US? You could just buy the A50 and Steelseries H (don't believe anyone owns this headset yet.) off of amazon for the free shipping and decide which one you don't like. Just a thought. I personally wouldn't buy the Astro's after my recent visit to their forums where they basically told a group of us 2011 amp owners to either upgrade or just deal with it when our chat didn't work with the PS4, thank god Turtle Beach had the same issue and stepped up.
  
 Again good luck man on your second child and enjoy your stay around here.


----------



## Evshrug

zombie_x said:


> All attempts have failed on my end, I don't have any TRRS plugs on hand so I might have to order a TB cable for it to test chat. So far the PS3/PS4 chat cable does not work at all. When I plug it into the mix-amp, it auto mutes everyone and no one can hear me and I can't hear them. I still have audio from the PS4 itself but chat is muted. Same goes for the PS3.
> 
> I have the PS4 set-up to optical out > Dolby Digital 5.1 > output to headphones - chat > mute camera mic. I get no chat audio at all. It's a shame the PS3/PS4 chat cable is defective though...



I haven't gotten to test that cable yet, but IDK if it's defective. I asked an Astro rep if it would be compatible with a PS4, he said yes but he could've been trying to get me to stop asking things (my A30 was DOA, and when I sent it in for repairs my registration and account with Astro disappeared, so a question about the chat cable was just icing on a ****cake). You're plugging the USB into the PS4, and analogue end into the Tx base station, right? I'm not sure what the "right" answer is, but I can look up the instructions if you like.



mmencius said:


> I'm thinking of getting one, or perhaps a SR850.
> 
> Questions: 1. what exactly do you mean by bright? Do you just mean weighted towards treble, or do you mean it makes violins sound like screeching cats?
> 2. these headphones are only 56 ohm, can a console drive these or will I need an amp?



Consoles don't have amps built-in, just digital and line-out audio. You'd need something like a Mixamp or DSS to have volume control and a suitable headphone jack, though they also process the headphone surround that does a LOT for immersion (which you heard in the Bioshock vid).

By bright he means treble-weighted and violins might sound fatiguing. Screechiness can come from two things: unrefined headphone that has poor control of treble reproduction (I've heard even dark headphones with this problem), or the amp doesn't have a good "grip" on supplying enough current to meet the demand of the headphone driver.

You asked earlier if amps matter to sonic quality, or if they're just for "enough volume." Some headphones require more voltage to be loud enough, but all drivers benefit from having enough current to articulate complex passages or powerful bass sections. Some headphones scale more than others, and IMO should be the first consideration, but an appropriate amp is part of a complete system.

A Q701 (62 ohm headphone) actually sounds loud enough right off of a Turtle Beach DSS ($30 like new on eBay). And decently wonderful too. But the bass will never quite sound "big" and the treble may distort, causing a sharpness that can get fatiguing after a half hour (ymmv, but I used to play violin too, like... 15 years ago, but I loved it). Add a good neutral-but-capable amp you'll still hear the character of the headphone, but notes flow from the drivers easily. You've heard it on string instruments; if a performer has a firm movement of the now it sounds great, but a novice playing weakly with little control will screech a stradivarius like a dying cat.

IMO, you ought to start out with a Koss KCS75 or Superlux (haven't heard Superlux myself, skipped to an AD700), a DSS (first version), and a portable amp like a FiiO E11.

Tbc, lunch break is over


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Seller notes: Buyer was harsh, aggressive, and insinuated that I was the son of a hamster. Will not sell to again.


 
  
 Joke's on him, he already left feedback!  Man, I hate the smell of elderberries...


----------



## Murder Mike

fiffif said:


> Given my constraints, what's the best that I can do to get reasonable sound quality? I'm going to take a huge sound quality hit. No way to avoid it. *Gaming forums drool over the Astro's*, but MLE's review has me reluctant to pull the trigger. Cost isn't really an issue. I'll be able to cover pretty much all of a new setup by selling my current kit off. That said, I don't want to pay full freight for something "high end" (sigh) like A50's or Steel Series H if they're not actually and noticeably better than the Golds.


 
  
 They market them very well at MLG and other places, so those gamers don't know any better unless they take the time to look around. They only way you're going to know for sure is if you try them. I don't think they're worth anywhere near $300, but I'm also not in your situation. You best bet is to order them from somewhere like Amazon that has a generous return policy IMO.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Joke's on him, he already left feedback!  Man, I hate the smell of elderberries...


 
  
 I can always edit...


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> They market them very well at MLG and other places, so those gamers don't know any better unless they take the time to look around. They only way you're going to know for sure is if you try them. I don't think they're worth anywhere near $300, but I'm also not in your situation. You best bet is to order them from somewhere like Amazon that has a generous return policy IMO.


 
  
 Last I checked (in Feb) they had refurbed A50's for $200 on Amazon.  For $200, you're coming down into the realm of real-world pricing...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I can always edit...


 
  
 Did I say hate?  I meant love!  I love the smell of Elerberries and it's a little known fact that hamsters are the most dedicated and admirable parents in the rodent world!


----------



## Change is Good

Quick comparisons between the K612 w/702 pads and the K712...

K612 extends further down low with more presence
Soundstage difference is hard to really get a grasp on, but it seems the K612 is slighly wider
K712 has a slightly larger mid bass hump
K712 mids are slightly more forward
K712 bass is slightly more refined. Well, the whole spectrum is slightly more refined, actually...
K712 highs are slightly brighter
K712 has better instrument separation
  
 I'll leave it to MLE to compare the the K712 to the stock K612. For me, I was more interested in how my K612 w/702 pads compared to the K712, side by side. Thanks Ev!


----------



## Evshrug

Ya man! Did you try the K712 pads on the K612?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Ya man! Did you try the K712 pads on the K612?


 
  
 I'm doing that, at this very moment...


----------



## benbenkr

mmencius said:


> I'm thinking of getting one, or perhaps a SR850.
> Questions: 1. what exactly do you mean by bright? Do you just mean weighted towards treble, or do you mean it makes violins sound like screeching cats?
> 2. these headphones are only 56 ohm, can a console drive these or will I need an amp?


 
  
 Evshrug gave his very detailed explanation on your questions, check it out.
  
 I'll just weigh in on the SR850 part. Technically, both the 668b and SR850 are the same headphones with different colors. They even cost, the same (well more or less).
 I don't like the 668b due to its brightness and I feel that the similarly priced 681 Evo is a more balanced headphone. That said, it can still be a little too sparkly but definitely not fatiguing. It's also a little bit warmer than the 668b.
  
 So yeah, depends on you. If you're one who likes bright, detailed headphones, the 668b is a good place to start.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Quick comparisons between the K612 w/702 pads and the K712...
> 
> K612 extends further down low with more presence
> Soundstage difference is hard to really get a grasp on, but it seems the K612 is slighly wider
> ...


 
  
 I'm kinda jealous, but at the same time, I'm really happy with my Q's right now and don't need to be tempted by the Annies...


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I'm kinda jealous, but at the same time, I'm really happy with my Q's right now and *don't need to be tempted by the Annies*...


 
  
 You won't need to... all you need is the pads for the Qs to sound like the Annies/K712...


----------



## Evshrug

trahere said:


> Hi folks, I got my hands on Audio Technica's ATH-ADG1 and I'm thoroughly impressed with both its comfort and audio.
> I'm a UK PS4 gamer and pretty much play COD exclusively. At present, I'm using Turtle Beach's ACU but having previously used an older version of Astro's mix amp on PS3, I have a 2013 mix amp on order for comparison.
> I've read on page one about external amps and wondering if any kind soul could give me a recommenddation for this set up.



I just noticed a few days ago that the TB ACU is finally being sold separately, how do you like it? Can you independently control/balance chat and game volume?

The AD700/ADG1 is tricky to amp, cuz you don't need gain/volume, but more current can liven things up and make it less harsh. I only ever used it with a few amps tho... I suggest asking IEM users cuz they have similar needs, and looking for ClieOS' portable headphone amp thread. I always wanted a FiiO E11 for my AD700.



hailin said:


> First off congratulations!!!!
> Do you live in the US? You could just buy the A50 and Steelseries H (don't believe anyone owns this headset yet.) off of amazon for the free shipping and decide which one you don't like. Just a thought. I personally wouldn't buy the Astro's after my recent visit to their forums where they basically told a group of us 2011 amp owners to either upgrade or just deal with it when our chat didn't work with the PS4, thank god Turtle Beach had the same issue and stepped up.
> 
> Again good luck man on your second child and enjoy your stay around here.



Creative says their Recon3D USB is compatible with PS4 chat too, so... That doesn't give me much hope from Astro


----------



## Change is Good

I forgot to mention that the K712 is slightly more comfortable due to the memory foam pads and softer leather headband.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> You won't need to... all you need is the pads for the Qs to sound like the Annies/K712...


 
  
 Oh right, I totally forgot about that!  Well, $60 is still a bit much right now... I'd rather put that money towards a DAC.  But it's good to keep in mind if I ever feel like upgrading on the cheap.
  


evshrug said:


> I just noticed a few days ago that the TB ACU is finally being sold separately, how do you like it? Can you independently control/balance chat and game volume?


 
  
 Is that an alternative to a Mixamp 5.8?


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I just noticed a few days ago that the TB ACU is finally being sold separately, how do you like it? *Can you independently control/balance chat and game volume*?
> 
> The AD700/ADG1 is tricky to amp, cuz you don't need gain/volume, but more current can liven things up and make it less harsh. I only ever used it with a few amps tho... I suggest asking IEM users cuz they have similar needs, and looking for ClieOS' portable headphone amp thread. I always wanted a FiiO E11 for my AD700.
> Creative says their Recon3D USB is compatible with PS4 chat too, so... That doesn't give me much hope from Astro


 
 Nope, only volume.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Oh right, I totally forgot about that!  Well, $60 is still a bit much right now... I'd rather put that money towards a DAC.  But it's good to keep in mind if I ever feel like upgrading on the cheap.
> 
> 
> *Is that an alternative to a Mixamp 5.8?*


 
 Yes.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I'm kinda jealous, but at the same time, I'm really happy with my Q's right now and don't need to be tempted by the Annies...







change is good said:


> You won't need to... all you need is the pads for the Qs to sound like the Annies/K712...



Q701 + Annie's pads sound like Annie's (bigger tolerance on driver matching tho), I can tell you that swapping Pads between my Q & K don't result in same-sounding headphones. Easier to tell when they're right next to eachother, basically the comparison sounds a lot like what you said about k612 vs K712, except the Q is a little brighter and I think the K712 extends deeper (but not more than the E12 bass boost Adds).

Dunno why I didn't just put my E12 in the box, so you could hear the boost difference :/
Slipped my mind.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> [mentioning TB Audio Control Unit]
> 
> 
> Is that an alternative to a Mixamp 5.8?




Yep, has Dolby Headphone again too, but unlike the 5.8 it doesn't have the wireless component.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Q701 + Annie's pads sound like Annie's (bigger tolerance on driver matching tho), I can tell you that swapping Pads between my Q & K don't result in same-sounding headphones. Easier to tell when they're right next to eachother, *basically the comparison sounds a lot like what you said about k612 vs K712*, except the Q is a little brighter and I think the K712 extends deeper (but not more than the E12 bass boost Adds).
> 
> Dunno why I didn't just put my E12 in the box, so you could hear the boost difference :/
> Slipped my mind.


 
  
 Remember, my comparison was between the K612 _w/702_ pads (completely different sound than stock) vs the K712.
  
 Doing a brief comparison with stock pads, now...


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Yep, has Dolby Headphone again too, but unlike the 5.8 it doesn't have the wireless component.


 
  
 Soo... not an alternative to the 5.8, just to the normal Mixamp?  For some reason I thought it was wireless.


----------



## trahere

He





conquerator2 said:


> Nope, only volume.



Hello mate. Cheers for the reply. 
The ACU has plenty of capabilities and options for presets and the option to download user's 'home made' presets. 
My criticism of it is, without locking the device I dare not touch it. It has capacitive and physical buttons all over it and I invariably change something. There is a master volume dial on top and a chat dial on the right hand side. On the left hand side is the volume dial for your MP3 player.


----------



## Change is Good

Okay, pinpointing the differences between the stock K612 and K712 is much more difficult to distinguish. So far, I've only noticed a trade off in bass for mids (meaning the K612's mids _are_ slightly more forward than the K712, while the K712 has more bass). Soundstage is about equal... while the K712's treble is slightly brighter.
  
 Again, K712 is more refined and technically superior; mostly in the lower frequencies. Plus, one thing I forgot to mention, earlier, and still applies... the K612 is harder to drive than the K712...


----------



## Evshrug

trahere said:


> He
> Hello mate. Cheers for the reply.
> The ACU has plenty of capabilities and options for presets and the option to download user's 'home made' presets.
> My criticism of it is, without locking the device I dare not touch it. It has capacitive and physical buttons all over it and I invariably change something. There is a master volume dial on top and a *chat dial on the right hand side.* On the left hand side is the volume dial for your MP3 player.




So, you CAN change chat volume independently from game audio? That IS what I was asking, the ACU would then be the only other surround processor for consoles that can do that besides a Mixamp.

Did my amping suggestions help clarify?




change is good said:


> Plus, one thing I forgot to mention, earlier, and still applies... the K612 is harder to drive than the K712...



I thought it might be, that could be a GOOD thing. Tube amps tend to have more gain, so it could be easier to be turned up past the point of channel imbalances and feed the headphone plenty of current.


----------



## Evshrug

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/297383


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/297383


 
  
 I forgot to mention how much ADD I don't have.


----------



## Change is Good

Mr. Sandman... give me a dream...

*Fidelio X2*


----------



## Change is Good

Three words:

*Epic Shark Failure*


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Three words:
> 
> *Epic Shark Failure*


 
  
 Don't see why you're complaining. You knew full well that sharks do not like to be kissed on their tail while stroking their dorsal fin and calling them "Ms. Yolanda." Also, who the heck is Ms. Yolanda? You kept morning slightly every single time after you said it. Kinda creepy.


----------



## Evshrug

Spanish teacher?


----------



## tsunamisoldier

Hi Mad Lust,
  
 I am Australia Sydney a something of an entry level gamer but forever searching of the ultimate gaming headset.
  
 Firstly let me say out of all the forums and "reviews" by experts I find yours to be nothing but pure religion as its from experience, understanding, geared for a specific culture and it comes from the heart, so thank you...If there was ever a cult name for those who follow you I would call us "The Cult of Ascension to Pure Lust" in gamin.
  
 I currently own the Titian Warhead 7.1 & before this a Turtle Beach headset but I am wanting to venture into something new & not the usual gaming "brands"
  
 So just two question's I would like to ask;
  
 (1) To improve the Warhead 7.1, what amp/decoder would you add if you had the choice & if they can be improved upon in any way?
  
 (2) With a budget of $1000 - $1500, what ULTIMATE GAMING HEADSET would you personally purchase with the knowledge you have so far? This would include Headset, amp, decoder, mic & anything else you deemed needed to complete the package.
  
 NOTE: I am 100% console Xbox 360 & Xbox one gamer ONLY...no PC or PlayStation.
  
  
 Thanks,
  
  
 Lance.


----------



## conquerator2

tsunamisoldier said:


> Hi Mad Lust,
> 
> I am Australia Sydney a something of an entry level gamer but forever searching of the ultimate gaming headset.
> 
> ...




Hi Lance.
The answer to 1. is no. Those headsets are not made to be improved and they won't. It'd be a waste of money trying to anyways.
To 2. Well it depends. We need to know a bit more about your preferences and such. That's a very promising budget and there's quite a few headphones that'd fit there. Is it accuracy you seek? Enjoyment or soundstage? A bit of both or ear shaking bass? No music or movies in the mix? Tell us more and we'll sure be able to help


----------



## martin vegas

tsunamisoldier said:


> Hi Mad Lust,
> 
> I am Australia Sydney a something of an entry level gamer but forever searching of the ultimate gaming headset.
> 
> ...


 

 You could get the beyerdynamic headzone game..the smyith realiser a8's the best of the best but it's a bit over your budget!


----------



## Evshrug

Lance,
Rarely do we see requests for "what IS the holy grail?" combined with a large budget. Kinda cool! Issue is... games don't usually have super-high quality sound files (very good but not HD Audio, the XB1 files CAN be better cuz BluRay has more space but that's no guarantee they WILL be better). So that kinda puts a limit on the max possibilities; you can still do well, but it kinda lends itself towards euphoric musical experience at the high end rather than ultra-resolving (relatively speaking, at a $1k + budget you will still have great resolution).

With that in mind, you could either blow your entire budget on the very very expensive Smith Realizer or the Beyer Headzone (which may be overkill for the source material), but I'd say play to the strengths and typical objectives of gaming. I suggest finding one of the older receivers (AVRs) by Marantz that have Dolby Headphone. Probably the best practical amp/DAC combo to use. That pretty much covers everything but headphone, you MAY be able to find a used deal on a Sennheiser HD800 for it's amazing clarity and depth of soundstage, buuuuuut again in respect to musicality and a headphone that just sweeps you off your feet and makes you ENJOY rather than analyze, I'd say the choice match would be either a Fostex TH900 or a HiFiman HE560. Superb, immersive choices.

So those are Holy Grail options, but I think it's best to figure out which direction you want to go before dumping a large sum into a headphone. Closed, open, extra bass, neutral, particular brand, fit and comfort, all these things are individual taste, BUT I hope I gave you a starting point and something to chew on


----------



## DADDYDC650

Philips X1 + VMODA BoomPro + Astro 5.1 wireless = Da best! That is all.


----------



## HiCZoK

Why both ?
 I guess X1 is for music right ?
  
 So I decided to stay with my aurvana live! because there seems to be a huge jump in prices after this headphone, if I want something better. I don't really care much for dolby headphone. Maybe only in a couple of games but its optional. I want to ask, if I should bother with getting anything other than my xonar dg ? some dac or other sound card? Maybe external ? Or am I good set in stone with xonar dg? (I could use voume wheel on some external device. Right now I am just controlling volume with control wheel on my g11 keybosard). So I want volume wheel control and just something on my desk so I could easily switch headphones.
  
 That way or another, I was at media markt yesterday and besides testing some normal headphones(god those prices...) I did had a chance to see/try some gaming headsets/headphones. My general impression was always that gaming headsets are more feature rich at better prices than normal headphones. Most sport memory foam, are comfortable etc... with exceptions. There was Creative Evo set and besides being kinda expensive compared to everything else there, it looked very nice! Great build quality, nice cushions, killer looks, detachable usb and jack. built in microphone. Sadly I did not had a chance to use it. I had Creative mkII and Tactic 360 sigma(still have it and using it's amp with my aurvana live! on 360) before and creative must be my fav hedaphone brand. I always liked their warm signature but some creative sets lack detail, have poor build quality or have bad wiring/cable. That Sound Blaster Evo seems to try to improve on everything. There also was siberia v2 set but packgaged with strakingly low price. skullcandy crusher was there too. Comofrtable good cushions but rather poor seal I think.


----------



## PETEREK

After seeing how the AKG's and Philips Fidelio X1 stacked up in your rankings, I've put my Astro A40 up for sale here and on eBay. Link in my signature if anyone is interested


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> Lance,
> Rarely do we see requests for "what IS the holy grail?" combined with a large budget. Kinda cool! Issue is... games don't usually have super-high quality sound files (very good but not HD Audio, the XB1 files CAN be better cuz BluRay has more space but that's no guarantee they WILL be better). So that kinda puts a limit on the max possibilities; you can still do well, but it kinda lends itself towards euphoric musical experience at the high end rather than ultra-resolving (relatively speaking, at a $1k + budget you will still have great resolution).
> 
> With that in mind, you could either blow your entire budget on the very very expensive Smith Realizer or the Beyer Headzone (which may be overkill for the source material), but I'd say play to the strengths and typical objectives of gaming. I suggest finding one of the older receivers (AVRs) by Marantz that have Dolby Headphone. Probably the best practical amp/DAC combo to use. That pretty much covers everything but headphone, you MAY be able to find a used deal on a Sennheiser HD800 for it's amazing clarity and depth of soundstage, buuuuuut again in respect to musicality and a headphone that just sweeps you off your feet and makes you ENJOY rather than analyze, I'd say the choice match would be either a Fostex TH900 or a HiFiman HE560. Superb, immersive choices.
> ...


 
  
 Someone in this thread bought the TH-600 + Mixamp (+some portable amp) and was hugely amazed by it. I can only speak for the TH-900 and it's still my favorite can. Relatively easy to drive, great, cohorent soundstage, very very deep hard hittingbass with low decay, very low distortion so despite its pronounced bass not fatigueing at all (like X1 or Signature DJ from my own experience) and very detailed. 
  
 So if the TH-600 is even half as good it would be a very good recommendation. Plus he'd save quite some money. 
 Maybe that guy can chime in and give his further impressions.


----------



## tsunamisoldier

thank you all for your experiences and knowledge.
  
 Gaming on the Xbox is about clarity for First Person Shooter Games....top of the list as follows for importance;
  
 1. Precision listening to my surroundings to hear people around corners or sneaking up behind me...to understand the foot steps are above me or below me...direction of enemy fire...this is crucial.
  
 2. Environment - The enjoyment of hearing grenades, explosions, rockets, choppers etc without it becoming distorted or so overpowering that everything else gets lost as you lose "precision" and voice clarity of team mates.
  
 3. Voice clarity
  
 This sums up how I want gaming headsets to function...I am not seeking anything that upgrades my music collection...I want to find 100% domination in every aspect as a gamer.
  
  
 Hope this helps Mad Lust...If you have a NUMBER 1 suggestions on what headphone, Decoder/Amp/Mic you would put together that would rule over all else using my specifications please provide & I shall buy.
  
  
  
 Lance.


----------



## grumpy1471

Hello Mad Lust Envy (and the rest of Head-Fi)! 
  
 I had recently bought the Astro A40 2013 Mixamp and Headset bundle. This was my first serious gaming headset (the one prior to them was a pair of cheap Turtle Beaches). I have noticed that the bass in this headset is a little too prominent when I am trying to listen for footsteps in Call of Duty and other competitive shooters. I definitely think these are great all around for gaming and other media alike, however, after stumbling upon this thread, I have begun to wonder how much better the positional audio can actually be. 
  
 So, here's my dilemma: I am unsure as to whether to get the ATH-AD700Xs or the Q 701s. My even bigger issue is my budget. I only have enough spending money to either go with the AD700Xs for competitive AND keep my A40s for a slightly more fun headset or I can go with JUST the Q701s as well as a mic (possibly the modmic) and end up selling my A40s. In the latter option, I will have the Q701s as my main headphones for all around use. 
  
 I will for sure be keeping the Astro Mixamp as I am a console gamer as well as a PC gamer. I'm absolutely unsure which headphones to purchase. Any help and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 
  
 Oh, and also, if there are any other headphones that anyone thinks I should consider, please mention them so I can take a look at them. The Q 701s are around $250 so that would be more or less my budget.


----------



## Zombie_X

Hi Gents,
  
 After playing around with the adapter design, I've come around to the final design. The entire body of the adapter will be made of metal with glue shrink holding it together. I've wired all the internal with solid core copper. This also insures the highest quality signal will be sent, though I have considered wiring the internals with solid core Silver. The new design is more snug with the AKG as well. The 1/8" jack I used has a smaller entry, so the Boom Pro wont turn nearly as much as the prototype I made.
  
 I'm opening up a testing program for these very shortly. Participants will be put on a list and there will be one unit passed around among the members. Final details will be disclosed later. 
  
 Stillhart, I have your adapter in hand, let me know when you want it. Same goes for you MLE.
  
 On the left is the prototype, on the right is the final design.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Hello Mad Lust Envy (and the rest of Head-Fi)!
> 
> I had recently bought the Astro A40 2013 Mixamp and Headset bundle. This was my first serious gaming headset (the one prior to them was a pair of cheap Turtle Beaches). I have noticed that the bass in this headset is a little too prominent when I am trying to listen for footsteps in Call of Duty and other competitive shooters. I definitely think these are great all around for gaming and other media alike, however, after stumbling upon this thread, I have begun to wonder how much better the positional audio can actually be.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure where you live but there is almost always a pair of Q701 on the classified here for less than $200 (the price for a new one in the US).  I love my Q701 and I think, with the super easy and reversible bass mod, it can easily a great headphone for everything.  While I haven't heard the AD700, I've read that they're great for competitive gaming but that's it.  The Q doesn't have that problem once you mod it (takes ~5 minutes).
  
 The Fidelio X1 is also a great all-arounder.  It's more bass-heavy so you lose a bit for competitive gaming (vs the Q701 or the AD700) but it should still be a step up from the A40's.


----------



## Stillhart

zombie_x said:


> Hi Gents,
> 
> After playing around with the adapter design, I've come around to the final design. The entire body of the adapter will be made of metal with glue shrink holding it together. I've wired all the internal with solid core copper. This also insures the highest quality signal will be sent, though I have considered wiring the internals with solid core Silver. The new design is more snug with the AKG as well. The 1/8" jack I used has a smaller entry, so the Boom Pro wont turn nearly as much as the prototype I made.
> 
> ...


 

 Yessss!  Thanks, man.  I'll PM you my info.  Between this and the M-stage, I've got a fun week for headphones coming up!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tsunami, footsteps above or below, not happening. Games today only have horizontal positional cues, not vertical. The things you ask for are basically you asking for everything. The only way to have everything is to go for a neutral headphone, and you're still gonna trade off a little immersion (unless you get something like the Alpha Dogs which are neutral but still fun). Planarmagnetics have the advantage of being linear without trading off fullness. The Alpha Dog is $600 and you're definitely gonna want to amp them.



Grumpy, Considering the K70x is about $90 more than the AD700x, I'd get it instead. Later on down the line, you can buy some K712 pads for it, and you'll have both an amazinbg competetive friendly headphone, and with the K712 pads, you'll gain warmth and more fun. You could also look into the K612, but I haven't heard them yet (I will be very, very soon). They are like $150, and apparently do everything well.

Zombie, that is an awesome looking adapter. Thanks for your hard work and dedication.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> I'm not sure where you live but there is almost always a pair of Q701 on the classified here for less than $200 (the price for a new one in the US).  I love my Q701 and I think, with the super easy and reversible bass mod, it can easily a great headphone for everything.  While I haven't heard the AD700, I've read that they're great for competitive gaming but that's it.  The Q doesn't have that problem once you mod it (takes ~5 minutes).
> 
> The Fidelio X1 is also a great all-arounder.  It's more bass-heavy so you lose a bit for competitive gaming (vs the Q701 or the AD700) but it should still be a step up from the A40's.


 
 Thanks for replying! Leaning towards the Q701 now! I happen to be in Canada (believe me, I know this sucks when it comes to purchasing headphones and electronics) so the cheapest Q701 that I can find is $250.  Is the bass mod the one where you remove the foam on the inside of the grilles or this one: http://www.head-fi.org/t/607019/akg-q701-simple-mod-increase-bass-and-decrease-soundstage-a-little
  
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Grumpy, Considering the K70x is about $90 more than the AD700x, I'd get it instead. Later on down the line, you can buy some K712 pads for it, and you'll have both an amazinbg competetive friendly headphone, and with the K712 pads, you'll gain warmth and more fun. You could also look into the K612, but I haven't heard them yet (I will be very, very soon). They are like $150, and apparently do everything well.


 
 The Q701s are on sale where I'm looking to buy from so would those be just as good as the K70x? I am aware that the two are around the same so sorry for asking. 
  
  
  


zombie_x said:


> Hi Gents,
> 
> After playing around with the adapter design, I've come around to the final design. The entire body of the adapter will be made of metal with glue shrink holding it together. I've wired all the internal with solid core copper. This also insures the highest quality signal will be sent, though I have considered wiring the internals with solid core Silver. The new design is more snug with the AKG as well. The 1/8" jack I used has a smaller entry, so the Boom Pro wont turn nearly as much as the prototype I made.
> 
> ...


 
 I would definitely want one of these if I end up getting the Q701! Would definitely be better using the Boom Pro instead of a separate mic! Sadly, I'm in Canada so I'm not sure how I'd get my hands on one...


----------



## Change is Good

Quote:


> You could also look into the K612, but I haven't heard them yet (I will be very, very soon). They are like $150, and apparently do everything well.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Thanks for replying! Leaning towards the Q701 now! I happen to be in Canada (believe me, I know this sucks when it comes to purchasing headphones and electronics) so the cheapest Q701 that I can find is $250.  Is the bass mod the one where you remove the foam on the inside of the grilles or this one: http://www.head-fi.org/t/607019/akg-q701-simple-mod-increase-bass-and-decrease-soundstage-a-little


 
  
 This is the mod:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread/5850  You're basically just pulling a small sticker off the back of each driver.
  
 Even if you're in Canada, I assume you can find a used pair for $165-185 and then ship for $40-50 and still come out ahead.  Food for thought.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo,
  
 I'll order more mini XLR's this week for everyone. I'll get on making more. Right now I have a few mini XLR's on hand, and about 10 of the 1/8" jacks. I may upgrade to the nice Rean mini XLR's as they give me more to work with than generic Switchcraft clones.
  
 EDIT:
 Getting on the PS4 now, who wants to play with me or watch me stream?


----------



## Evshrug

Guess I should check to see if the BoomPro is available on Amazon.


----------



## kcazbarach

zombie_x said:


> Hi Gents,
> 
> After playing around with the adapter design, I've come around to the final design. The entire body of the adapter will be made of metal with glue shrink holding it together. I've wired all the internal with solid core copper. This also insures the highest quality signal will be sent, though I have considered wiring the internals with solid core Silver. The new design is more snug with the AKG as well. The 1/8" jack I used has a smaller entry, so the Boom Pro wont turn nearly as much as the prototype I made.
> 
> ...


 
 Would definitely be interested in purchasing an adapter after testing is done. (assuming it works fine)


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Great work, Zombie. The final design looks really sleek


----------



## martin vegas

Does any one know if the astro mix amp works with the mic on the audio technica ath adg1?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Does any one know if the astro mix amp works with the mic on the audio technica ath adg1?


 
 'Of all the things I've read about the mixamp, one thing I've never read is that there are some mics that don't work with it...


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> 'Of all the things I've read about the mixamp, one thing I've never read is that there are some mics that don't work with it...


 

 So would it work with the xbox one over optical..so it would be using the ath adg1 and mix amp for chat and not the xbox one controller?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> 'Of all the things I've read about the mixamp, one thing I've never read is that there are some mics that don't work with it...




^this

Even a standard in-line mic cable that comes with most portables will work with it...


----------



## PETEREK

I've used multiple in-line mics from other headphones with my MixAmps over the past few years and haven't come across one that doesn't work yet. I had the First gen Mixamp and now have the MixAmp Pro.


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> So would it work with the xbox one over optical..so it would be using the ath adg1 and mix amp for chat and not the xbox one controller?


 
  
 That's a function of the Xbox, not the Mixamp.  You still need the cable going into your controller no matter which DSP you use.  I can't speak as to how it needs to be setup specifically, since I have never used a Mixamp.  But I suspect there's plenty of stuff on their website.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> ^this
> 
> Even a standard in-line mic cable that comes with most portables will work with it...


 

 Not for me, for our australian friend who was asking about the best set up for his xbox one.. I said get the astro mix amp either with the ath adg1 or the adx700 and mic..just making sure he gets everything he needs..that's all!


----------



## PETEREK

I will say that I haven't used the PC Mic input on the backside of the MixAmp, but when I use *this* in the front, it works just fine with mics separate from headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

The XBA-H3 is now only $254 at Amazon! Ya'll better jump on these!
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XBAH3-Hybrid-Driver-Headphones/dp/B00FJISZ28
  
 The only IEMs I've actually liked for gaming...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> The XBA-H3 is now only $254 at Amazon! Ya'll better jump on these!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XBAH3-Hybrid-Driver-Headphones/dp/B00FJISZ28
> 
> The only IEMs I've actually liked for gaming...


 
  
 Good lord, earbuds for $250?  Clearly I'm out of the loop as my preconceived notions are that there's no way you can get the sound of a 50mm driver out of teeny little in-ear drivers.


----------



## Change is Good

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! I've had numerous IEMs that sound better than some full sized headphones!

All I can say is just stay away from IEMs. Save your wallet, and stay away...


----------



## PETEREK

stillhart said:


> Good lord, earbuds for $250?  Clearly I'm out of the loop as my preconceived notions are that there's no way you can get the sound of a 50mm driver out of teeny little in-ear drivers.


 
 You would really be surprised. When I had my Westone 4r, the separation is so good because there are different drivers for different parts of the spectrum, and because of that everything can be so much more precise. I only don't have IEMs because I'd rather have headphones on my head and get the proper sound immediately rather than finding the seal before I listen. That annoys me.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! *I've had numerous IEMs that sound better than some full sized headphones!*
> 
> All I can say is just stay away from IEMs. Save your wallet, and stay away...


 
  


peterek said:


> You would really be surprised. When I had my *Westone 4r*, the separation is so good because there are different drivers for different parts of the spectrum, and because of that everything can be so much more precise. I only don't have IEMs because I'd rather have headphones on my head and get the proper sound immediately rather than finding the seal before I listen. That annoys me.


 
  
 Yup! That was one of them!


----------



## grumpy1471

Alrighty. So after looking on Amazon (.com) at the Fidelio X1, I saw that I can get them for right around $275 after shipping and customs to Canada. I definitely would prefer these in terms of convenience as I wouldn't have to get a mic like the modmic or a clip on mic and instead I can just order up the Boom Pro for another $30. I'm just not so sure about how much of a competitive edge I will get over the Astros and how much worse these are than the Q701 for competitive use. Can anyone tell me if the Pro setting on the Astro Mixamp will make the X1 a lot more like the Q701? Should I go with the Q701 with the modmic (or even one of Zombie_X's adapters and the Boom Pro) or should I go with the Fidelio X1 as a more all around music/gaming/movie headphone along with the Boom Pro?
  
 Also, do the V-moda cables that come with the M-80s (the standard audio cables) work well with the X1?


----------



## PETEREK

Quote:
 Originally Posted by *grumpy1471* /img/forum/go_quote.gif


> Alrighty. So after looking on Amazon (.com) at the Fidelio X1, I saw that I can get them for right around $275 after shipping and customs to Canada. I definitely would prefer these in terms of convenience as I wouldn't have to get a mic like the modmic or a clip on mic and instead I can just order up the Boom Pro for another $30. I'm just not so sure about how much of a competitive edge I will get over the Astros and how much worse these are than the Q701 for competitive use. Can anyone tell me if the Pro setting on the Astro Mixamp will make the X1 a lot more like the Q701? Should I go with the Q701 with the modmic (or even one of Zombie_X's adapters and the Boom Pro) or should I go with the Fidelio X1 as a more all around music/gaming/movie headphone along with the Boom Pro?
> 
> Also, do the V-moda cables that come with the M-80s (the standard audio cables) work well with the X1?


 
 Antlion's shipping on the ModMic 3.0 is delayed 2 1/2 weeks. They emailed me today informing me of that. Bummer. You can order the ModMic 2.0 now and it will ship immediately. 
  
 The cable that comes with the M80 will work just as well as any other mini-mini cable. I only recommend people get the V-Moda cables to use with other branded headphones because of their awesome durability, and they don't tangle up too bad.
  
 As for your dilemma between getting the Q701 and the X1, I would say just get whatever sounds like what you prefer in a signature, or what price is more appealing to you. It seems like they're both really good headphones for gaming. Both are going to sound better than the A40's anyway. I used a pair of DT990's the other day with my MixAmp and they sounded SO MUCH BETTER than my A40's, and the DT990 don't even rank as high as the Q701 or X1 on the chart.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Alrighty. So after looking on Amazon (.com) at the Fidelio X1, I saw that I can get them for right around $275 after shipping and customs to Canada. I definitely would prefer these in terms of convenience as I wouldn't have to get a mic like the modmic or a clip on mic and instead I can just order up the Boom Pro for another $30. I'm just not so sure about how much of a competitive edge I will get over the Astros and how much worse these are than the Q701 for competitive use. Can anyone tell me if the Pro setting on the Astro Mixamp will make the X1 a lot more like the Q701? Should I go with the Q701 with the modmic (or even one of Zombie_X's adapters and the Boom Pro) or should I go with the Fidelio X1 as a more all around music/gaming/movie headphone along with the Boom Pro?
> 
> Also, do the V-moda cables that come with the M-80s (the standard audio cables) work well with the X1?




If you're coming from the Astros... you'll be in heaven with the X1 and BoomPro. You may save some money, also, by looking for an X1 in the classifieds, here.


----------



## PETEREK

I know Stillhart is selling his pair of X1's for $200. Look at his profile and the classifieds he has open on the right.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Alrighty. So after looking on Amazon (.com) at the Fidelio X1, I saw that I can get them for right around $275 after shipping and customs to Canada. I definitely would prefer these in terms of convenience as I wouldn't have to get a mic like the modmic or a clip on mic and instead I can just order up the Boom Pro for another $30. I'm just not so sure about how much of a competitive edge I will get over the Astros and how much worse these are than the Q701 for competitive use. Can anyone tell me if the Pro setting on the Astro Mixamp will make the X1 a lot more like the Q701? Should I go with the Q701 with the modmic (or even one of Zombie_X's adapters and the Boom Pro) or should I go with the Fidelio X1 as a more all around music/gaming/movie headphone along with the Boom Pro?
> 
> Also, do the V-moda cables that come with the M-80s (the standard audio cables) work well with the X1?


 
  
 I had the same dilemma, so I bought both the Q701 and the X1.  If I could have kept both, I would have.  The Q701 is better for pure competitive gaming (soundstage, and crisp clear highs/mids) and the X1 is better for pure fun and convenience (removable cable, BASS!).  That doesn't mean that the Q701 can't be fun or that the X1 isn't great for competitive gaming; I'm just talking about the small percentages that separate the two.  As Change said, compared to the A40, you're getting a big step up either way.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! I've had numerous IEMs that sound better than some full sized headphones!
> 
> All I can say is just stay away from IEMs. Save your wallet, and stay away...


 
  
  


peterek said:


> You would really be surprised. When I had my Westone 4r, the separation is so good because there are different drivers for different parts of the spectrum, and because of that everything can be so much more precise. I only don't have IEMs because I'd rather have headphones on my head and get the proper sound immediately rather than finding the seal before I listen. That annoys me.


 
  
 I don't know man, I can get an HE-400 (B-stock from Razordog) for $245 or a Mad Dog for $300.  Is an IEM going to compare to a planar magnetic in the same price range?  I guess the advantage is portability and less power to drive?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I don't know man, I can get an HE-400 (B-stock from Razordog) for $245 or a Mad Dog for $300.  Is an IEM going to compare to a planar magnetic in the same price range?  I guess the advantage is portability and less power to drive?




So much for thinning the herd


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> So much for thinning the herd


 
  
 I'm not saying I *WILL*, just that I *CAN*.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




   I'm genuinely curious how a $250 IEM would sound compared to a Q701 or an HE-400.


----------



## Change is Good

As with any other headphone, only your ears can make the best judgement. 

BTW, it's a $350 hybrid IEM... that's on sale for the first time EVER at this low of a price. That's the reason I posted it... because there are some people here that use IEMs.

And, usually, CAN means WILL in these ballparks


----------



## Change is Good

It's not the best choice in sound signature for you, however, stillhart... compared to the Q.


----------



## MightySam06

Quick question...
  
 I think I've decided on the X1's.  Now, in order to complete this setup on the PS4, I'd need to add either the Astro Mixamp, the Turtlebeach DSS2 or the Soundblaster Recon 3D.  Do all three of those devices basically perform the same function?  I'd be able to attach a mic and that would also give me the surround functionality, correct?  I've spend hours reading up on all this and am sloooowwly starting to get it... I think.


----------



## Stillhart

mightysam06 said:


> Quick question...
> 
> I think I've decided on the X1's.  Now, in order to complete this setup on the PS4, I'd need to add either the Astro Mixamp, the Turtlebeach DSS2 or the Soundblaster Recon 3D.  Do all three of those devices basically perform the same function?  I'd be able to attach a mic and that would also give me the surround functionality, correct?  I've spend hours reading up on all this and am sloooowwly starting to get it... I think.


 
  
 I'm not sure about the DSS2 but the Recon and Mixamp basically do the same thing.  The main differences are that the Mixamp gives you separate game/chat balance (BIG ADVANTAGE!) and Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone vs THX on the Recon.  The different surround processing is a YMMV thing; I prefer the THX, others prefer DH.


----------



## grumpy1471

mightysam06 said:


> Quick question...
> 
> I think I've decided on the X1's.  Now, in order to complete this setup on the PS4, I'd need to add either the Astro Mixamp, the Turtlebeach DSS2 or the Soundblaster Recon 3D.  Do all three of those devices basically perform the same function?  I'd be able to attach a mic and that would also give me the surround functionality, correct?  I've spend hours reading up on all this and am sloooowwly starting to get it... I think.


 
 I have the Astro Mixamp and can definitely recommend it for the PS4 as well as other consoles and occasionally PC. The different EQ settings definitely help depending on the way I'm using them. The chat and game audio dial is quite useful. There's noticeable hiss at volumes above 50%, however, once game audio is playing, you won't even know it's there. The surround sound functionality would work regardless of whether you are using a separate mic along with the X1 or if you are using the Boom Pro (the Boom Pro would be a TON more convenient though). The mixamp includes a short splitter cable in case you happen to have separate mic and audio jacks.


----------



## PETEREK

Quote:


mightysam06 said:


> Quick question...
> 
> I think I've decided on the X1's.  Now, in order to complete this setup on the PS4, I'd need to add either the Astro Mixamp, the Turtlebeach DSS2 or the Soundblaster Recon 3D.  Do all three of those devices basically perform the same function?  I'd be able to attach a mic and that would also give me the surround functionality, correct?  I've spend hours reading up on all this and am sloooowwly starting to get it... I think.



  I like my Astro MixAmp. I have a 4 month old baby and use a video baby monitor app on my MacBook Pro, while I'm playing xbox with my headset on I have the "MP3" input on the back of the MixAmp connected to the MacBook so I can hear the baby if she cries while I'm playing. The MixAmp's USB power is plugged into my PC so I can set my Default Speakers to the MixAmp in the sound settings and play music from my PC to my headset. It can mix up to 3 inputs (optical, MP3, and USB) into your one headset. This probably isn't necessary for most people, but it is nice if you ever need to do something like that.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mightysam06 said:


> Quick question...
> 
> I think I've decided on the X1's.  Now, in order to complete this setup on the PS4, I'd need to add either the Astro Mixamp, the Turtlebeach DSS2 or the Soundblaster Recon 3D.  Do all three of those devices basically perform the same function?  I'd be able to attach a mic and that would also give me the surround functionality, correct?  I've spend hours reading up on all this and am sloooowwly starting to get it... I think.


 
 If you were to get the DSS2 you'd need a USB to 3.5mm chat adapter. I own a DSS2 but have yet to do a head to head on the same game with my SB Omni (which uses the same technology as the Recon 3D). If it is useful, I could do a head to head and give you my impressions.
  
 Edit: Have you tried the video (there are others on Youtube too) comparing the surround technologies? Give that a try to get an impression of Dolby Headphone (Mixamp uses this) and SBX Pro Studio surround (Recon 3D). I can then try and fill in the DSS2 by describing how I feel it compares to them.
  
 However watching someone else playing with it and playing with it yourself (that sounds filthy!) feel quite different. When watching a video, you are not able to track the sound cues as you would when you are in control and genuinely reacting to what you hear.


----------



## benbenkr

napalmhardcore said:


> If you were to get the DSS2 you'd need a USB to 3.5mm chat adapter. I own a DSS2 but have yet to do a head to head on the same game with my SB Omni (which uses the same technology as the Recon 3D). If it is useful, I could do a head to head and give you my impressions.
> 
> Edit: Have you tried the video (there are others on Youtube too) comparing the surround technologies? Give that a try to get an impression of Dolby Headphone (Mixamp uses this) and SBX Pro Studio surround (Recon 3D). I can then try and fill in the DSS2 by describing how I feel it compares to them.
> 
> However watching someone else playing with it and playing with it yourself (that sounds filthy!) feel quite different. When watching a video, you are not able to track the sound cues as you would when you are in control and genuinely reacting to what you hear.


 
  
 Eh?
  
 Recon3D uses THX Surround, Omni uses SBX Surround.
 SBX and THX sounds different, even though SBX is pretty much a more refined version of THX — but they are different.


----------



## tmaxx123

just got a new fiio e12 mount blanc for 80 bucks 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





....will try that with my mixamp and mmx-300's. Hopefully it rocks, will report back when it arrives. i have been in the market for a e18, but for 80 bucks, I figured why not?


----------



## PETEREK

tmaxx123 said:


> just got a new fiio e12 mount blanc for 80 bucks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That's an awesome deal man, I paid $130 for mine a couple months ago.


----------



## tmaxx123

peterek said:


> That's an awesome deal man, I paid $130 for mine a couple months ago.


 
 im pumped! cant wait to try it out! should the difference be night and day? or just subtle differences in sound?


----------



## conquerator2

tmaxx123 said:


> im pumped! cant wait to try it out! should the difference be night and day? or just subtle differences in sound?




Somewhere in between. The dynamics should be improved


----------



## PETEREK

tmaxx123 said:


> im pumped! cant wait to try it out! should the difference be night and day? or just subtle differences in sound?


 
 I always use the bass boost switch that's on it, so it's different than running without an amp. It's so good though.


----------



## Bleach1508

Hi,
 Does anyone tried the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 for gaming? Are they any better then the first CAL (from a gaming point of view, i'm not going to use them for music\movies)?
 I'm a console gamer and i'm looking for a good gaming headphone\set for around ~ 100$
 Thanks!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

benbenkr said:


> Eh?
> 
> Recon3D uses THX Surround, Omni uses SBX Surround.
> SBX and THX sounds different, even though SBX is pretty much a more refined version of THX — but they are different.


 
 Doh! Got mixed up as when researching I was looking at a lot of different things. Doesn't help that they're both three letters with X at the end.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bleach1508 said:


> Hi,
> Does anyone tried the Creative Aurvana Live! 2 for gaming? Are they any better then the first CAL (from a gaming point of view, i'm not going to use them for music\movies)?
> I'm a console gamer and i'm looking for a good gaming headphone\set for around ~ 100$
> Thanks!




They're more bassy and are considered inferior. The CAL was already on the bassy side, so I doubt it's be better for gaming. Considering you aren't going to use them for music or movies, I'd definitely look for something less bassy.


----------



## Bleach1508

mad lust envy said:


> They're more bassy and are considered inferior. The CAL was already on the bassy side, so I doubt it's be better for gaming. Considering you aren't going to use them for music or movies, I'd definitely look for something less bassy.


 
 Thanks! 
 After reading the post I think i'll buy the first CAL if that's the case.
 I've also considered to buy Turtle Beach PX22 or Afterglow Wireless headsets (both of them got great reviews) but since I don't play online games I'm not sure if they have better sound than CAL.


----------



## Hailin

bleach1508 said:


> Thanks!
> After reading the post I think i'll buy the first CAL if that's the case.
> I've also considered to buy Turtle Beach PX22 or Afterglow Wireless headsets (both of them got great reviews) but since I don't play online games I'm not sure if they have better sound than CAL.


 
 I own both and to be honest unless you live in Canada and have access to a replaceable cord and ear pads, just buy the OG CAL.
  
 I think I dislike the CAL2 ear pads even more then I dislike the OG CALs. Luckily I have a pair of HM5 pads around, now I just have to replace the cable. I hate mic cables they are horrid. Plus side of the CAL2 you could just plug it straight into the PS4 controller and have a headset right away. But that is the only plus. If you see that as a plus most on here won't because we have DH devices.
  
 I think the CAL2 does have a slightly better, is subjective, mid bass slam. Everything else is just so close it is hard to decide what is better honestly. One moment I think the CAL is better the next the CAL2 I can't honestly can't nail down the differences. 
  
 With the extra mid bass they are not for you MLE. Instant headaches for sure.


----------



## instantcoffee

I'm not finding much mention of them by searching but their name is kind of awkward to search.
  
 Has anyone else here owned the Thermaltake E-Sports Shock Spin head set?
  
 I feel like they might be a hidden gem, I don't see much talk about them, but I bought some Koss KSC75s after hearing rave reviews about their sound quality at their price bracket and frankly they just aren't as good at the TTEs. 
  
 I ask because I'm looking to shop around for something a bit less bulky but I don't want to downgrade in sound quality. I really like the feel of the PX22 or X12 but turtlebeach I tried on at bestbuy but don't know about the sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tyll measured them and they seem remarkably similar to the OG CAL. Makes me believe its the same driver, but the sonic difference being due to the new housing and pads. Everyone knows that those things can make or break a headphone. In this case, the biggest change seems to be the bass.


----------



## PETEREK

Maybe they're pulling a Sennheiser and just changing the inside of the cup a little to alter the sound slightly.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> The XBA-H3 is now only $254 at Amazon! Ya'll better jump on these!
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-XBAH3-Hybrid-Driver-Headphones/dp/B00FJISZ28
> 
> The only IEMs I've actually liked for gaming...


 
  
 Curse you evil siren of the deal, I will not submit! Seriously though, I'd like to hear these at some point down the road but I have a suspicion that they won't be able to match my quad driver customs so there's really not much point for me. I like the idea of a hybrid design, getting the benefits of both BA and dynamic, but I just love the detail and clarity that my full BA delivers.


----------



## Broadbandit

Hey everyone! I've been stalking this thread for the last week and decided to jump on in the fun.
  
 I currently have the Astro a40 headset (3-4 years old) + mixamp (1 year old) and I've been looking for a pair of cans to replace them. I've had my eye on a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 but I always come back to this thread and its like I'm starting over the thought process. 
  
 I am looking for a pair of cans that would be a solid upgrade to the a40s. Mainly used for gaming and music. When it comes to music I mainly listen to metal, grind, death metal etc. Also a big fan of electronic music and some hip hop. I plan to use the mixamp in conjuction and sooner or later will end up getting a xonar essence card for my pc. I also have the mic under control. 

 I need help picking out a good fit for me. I have a slightly large head if that helps with any recommendations too.


----------



## grumpy1471

broadbandit said:


> Hey everyone! I've been stalking this thread for the last week and decided to jump on in the fun.
> 
> I currently have the Astro a40 headset (3-4 years old) + mixamp (1 year old) and I've been looking for a pair of cans to replace them. I've had my eye on a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 but I always come back to this thread and its like I'm starting over the thought process.
> 
> ...


 
 I have pretty much the exact same taste in music as you. I am also looking for the same all around great type of headphones. The X1 was recommended to me a couple of pages back so I'd say most would recommend the same. 
  
 Edit: Oh and if you're into electronic and hip hop, definitely something somewhat more fun and bassy. I stand by the X1 as my recommendation. No personal experience with them but it seems to be what would fit best based on the review and other recommendations.


----------



## TiTaN

broadbandit said:


> Hey everyone! I've been stalking this thread for the last week and decided to jump on in the fun.
> 
> I currently have the Astro a40 headset (3-4 years old) + mixamp (1 year old) and I've been looking for a pair of cans to replace them. I've had my eye on a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 but I always come back to this thread and its like I'm starting over the thought process.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've recently tried the Q701, X1, PC360 and MA900 and have used the HD595/598, Astro A40, DT770 and AD700.
  
 I currently still own the X1 and AD700, as the AD700 are solid for everything and cheap enough to not feel like it's a waste keeping them and the X1 are my current all-around use cans, mostly for gaming due to compatibility with the vmoda boompro and how great they are with positioning. The added bass over the AD700 is great especially for electronic/dance music, though metal isn't as good and the AD700 and something like the MA900 or HD595/598 would win there.
  
 The Q701 definitely needed an AMP and I wasn't willing to add another $100+ to the price when everything else was just fine without. The MA900 were amazing but I couldn't get used to the fit myself, though the lightness made them comfortable if perfectly still once you get them in place.
  
 Overall it's what you really want to use them for that determines which are best for you of these. If purely competitive gaming, don't waste the extra money and go for the AD700. If you want 99% of the competitive gaming plus bass and electronic/dance prowess step up to the X1. If you want the ultimate all-arounder that is also fantastic for competitive gaming but less bass than X1 and better for metal/rock, go HD595/598 or the MA900 if you can find a pair and are willing to chance the odd fit.
  
 If you can look past the headband bumps and are getting an amp, the Q701 are also an option.
  
 The DT770 are great for bass, isolation and gaming but obviously closed so a very different direction than the rest. The PC360 that I had were absolutely terrible compared to everything else I've detailed and I'd avoid them completely. I got a pair of the newest Astros on a great deal and sold them immediately, as they also sounded awful compared to the AD700s.
  
 Bang for buck for pure gaming performance? AD700


----------



## Stillhart

broadbandit said:


> Hey everyone! I've been stalking this thread for the last week and decided to jump on in the fun.
> 
> I currently have the Astro a40 headset (3-4 years old) + mixamp (1 year old) and I've been looking for a pair of cans to replace them. I've had my eye on a pair of Sennheiser HD 598 but I always come back to this thread and its like I'm starting over the thought process.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you've been lurking for the past week, you'll have seen this same question asked a few times.  I think every time, the answer was the X1.  It's a solid all-arounder and I think it's hard to go wrong with that choice.  I'd also look into the Q701, as those are my favorites right now.
  
 You can definitely find good deals on both of these cans used (on the classifieds here) as well.


----------



## Broadbandit

Thanks for the replies guys (oh hey!) . The X1's seem pretty popular around the net. And what I gather from you titan is that the HD 595/598 might actually be the best fit Gaming/Metal wise. 
  
 I'm not opposed to buying an amp. I would buy an amp + q701 lets say if it was a solid choice over everything else for what I'm looking for. I plan on whatever cans I get soon to be with me for awhile


----------



## Stillhart

broadbandit said:


> Thanks for the replies guys (oh hey!) . The X1's seem pretty popular around the net. And what I gather from you titan is that the HD 595/598 might actually be the best fit Gaming/Metal wise.
> 
> I'm not opposed to buying an amp. I would buy an amp + q701 lets say if it was a solid choice over everything else for what I'm looking for. I plan on whatever cans I get soon to be with me for awhile


 
  
 I think this thread gives you all the info you need gaming-wise.  You may want to check out the individual 'appreciation' threads for the headphones you're interested in to see how they stack up for your music preferences.


----------



## Broadbandit

Word. Thanks for the advice. One last question while I'm here. When talking about the q701 and an amp, does the amp with the xonar essence sound card perform as well as a standalone $100 amp or no?


----------



## Stillhart

broadbandit said:


> Word. Thanks for the advice. One last question while I'm here. When talking about the q701 and an amp, does the amp with the xonar essence sound card perform as well as a standalone $100 amp or no?


 
  
 I couldn't say.  Try searching the the Nameless guide to PC gaming (linked in the first post).


----------



## iamstumper

broadbandit said:


> Word. Thanks for the advice. One last question while I'm here. When talking about the q701 and an amp, does the amp with the xonar essence sound card perform as well as a standalone $100 amp or no?


 
 May want to clarify which Asus Xonar Essence product you are talking about .... ST, STX, STX II, One, One Plus, One Muses, etc.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Curse you evil siren of the deal, I will not submit! Seriously though, I'd like to hear these at some point down the road but I have a suspicion that they won't be able to match my quad driver customs so there's really not much point for me. I like the idea of a hybrid design, getting the benefits of both BA and dynamic, but I just love the detail and clarity that my full BA delivers.




Let's just say I like these much better than both the Westone 4r (4 BAs) and SM64 (3 BAs). I first went to BAs because dynamics weren't giving the detail and clarity I craved, but then those BAs weren't providing that bass presence I desired. This is where the H3 came to play and gave me the best of both worlds.

I've read those 1964-Qs provide some big bass, however, for a BA. Unless you feel its soundstage is lacking, then you may want to give the H3 a try... especially at $254. That price is a steal for these, if you ask me...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Let's just say I like these much better than both the Westone 4r (4 BAs) and SM64 (3 BAs). I first went to BAs because dynamics weren't giving the detail and clarity I craved, but then those BAs weren't providing that bass presence I desired. This is where the H3 came to play and gave me the best of both worlds.
> 
> I've read those 1964-Qs provide some big bass, however, for a BA. Unless you feel its soundstage is lacking, then you may want to give the H3 a try.


 
  
 Their bass is pretty impressive, though the 1964-T is more bass oriented than the Q. I haven't heard the T, so I can't comment how it changes the balance in the sound. But when asked to deliver, my Q's definitely step to the plate. And the soundstage is nice. I haven't heard any IEMs with what I'd call a big soundstage, but these are definitely the top that I've heard personally.
  
 Maybe when I ship down my L2 we can work out an exchange so I can demo them.


----------



## Broadbandit

iamstumper said:


> May want to clarify which Asus Xonar Essence product you are talking about .... ST, STX, STX II, One, One Plus, One Muses, etc.


 
 STX


----------



## Evshrug

broadbandit said:


> Word. Thanks for the advice. One last question while I'm here. When talking about the q701 and an amp, does the amp with the xonar essence *[STX]* sound card perform as well as a standalone $100 amp or no?




Well... the op-amp used in the STX is the same one used in a FiiO E9, but the rest of the amp is implemented differently which may result in different performance/character (personally I haven't heard either). Right now, the darling (and currently supported) soundcards of the PC world are Creative's Z series cards (Z, ZxR, Omni). There are hardware mods that can be done to soundcards to improve sound quality, but they're not an option if you aren't good with soldering and electronics. Basically, a soundcard would be an ok start, but you'd probably want to upgrade to connecting an external amp at some point. I can vouch that even a SoundBlaster Z or Omni sounds pretty good with an AKG 712 or Q701 plugged straight in, but I like my music with my tube amp.

I like that I could start with a decent but inexpensive soundcard to start, but easily add an external amp or DAC (via optical) later if I want to use high-end gear.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Their bass is pretty impressive, though the 1964-T is more bass oriented than the Q. I haven't heard the T, so I can't comment how it changes the balance in the sound. But when asked to deliver, my Q's definitely step to the plate. And the soundstage is nice. I haven't heard any IEMs with what I'd call a big soundstage, but these are definitely the top that I've heard personally.
> 
> Maybe when I ship down my L2 we can work out an exchange so I can demo them.


 
  
 Pair of brand new L2's in the classifieds right now.  Being compared to the HE-500 and the HD650??


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Pair of brand new L2's in the classifieds right now.  Being compared to the HE-500 and the HD650??


 
  
 Only demo'd the HE-500 once at a head-fi meet so I can't really compare them.
  
 HD650 Pros vs L2:
 Slightly larger soundstage
 Slightly more refined
 More comfortable pads (don't get warm as easily, more room)
  
 L2 Pros vs HD650:
 Lighter
 Easier to drive
 Compatible with BoomPro
  
 The L2 cups are smaller, and could potentially cause issues with larger ears. This doesn't bother me at all and it's not unusual with headphones designed for portable use. Tonally I feel that the HD650 and L2 are fairly close with both having a warmer signature.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Only demo'd the HE-500 once at a head-fi meet so I can't really compare them.
> 
> HD650 Pros vs L2:
> Slightly larger soundstage
> ...


 
  
 So are you saying the L2 has a _n_-shaped sound like the HD650? Meaning the mids have the most presence? If so, that's a bummer, for me...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So are you saying the L2 has a _n_-shaped sound like the HD650? Meaning the mids have the most presence? If so, that's a bummer, for me...


 
  
 I need to spend more time with them to be sure, but I do feel that like the HD650 they do an amazing job with the mids. They sound full and well detailed, but they're not very forward compared to the other ranges. I think they have a bit better sparkle up top than the HD650 does, and with a quicker fall off in the bass. The bass boost function on my E12 paired with the crossfeed is one heck of a combo when used with the L2. So with my current listening, I wouldn't say they're n-shaped like the HD650, just that they have excellent mids and a slightly warmer signature. While the sub bass is definitely less than the HD650, I think that the lower mids help make the sound seem warm. Not dark by any means, but nice and comforting after using the HD650 exclusively for a while; the sound is still familiar in a way.


----------



## conquerator2

Hey guys.
 I was wondering, anyone been playing GTA V w/ headphones lately?
 I bought the game recently. It's OK, I like it though I've played better,
 But I have big issues with the spatial cues... Everything sounds rather flat and inaccurate for some reason... I am having hard times pinpointing things, not really happy with that. The SQ effects are alright.
 I am using the headphone settings in the options menu and the unit is processing DH as usual.
 I was expecting better, honestly... This is like the worst I've heard so far, as spatial cues go.
 Hope it's just some settings.
 Wonder if switching to speakers in the settings would help?
 Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You never, ever put the Headphones settings in video games when using external processors like Dolby headphone. You have to remember that Dolby Headphone is taking a Dolby Digital signal and converting it. Headphone settings in games are processed STEREO signals which is for when you're not using any type of processing. You will always want to use whatever setting is closest to a 5.1 surround setting (home theater, cinema, etc), as DH is emulating a speaker setup, not a headphone one.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> You never, ever put the Headphones settings in video games when using external processors like Dolby headphone. You have to remember that Dolby Headphone is taking a Dolby Digital signal and converting it. Headphone settings in games are processed STEREO signals which is for when you're not using any type of processing. You will always want to use whatever setting is closest to a 5.1 surround setting (home theater, cinema, etc), as DH is emulating a speaker setup, not a headphone one.


 
 Yep, switched it to speakers and it is definitely better.
 Still probably one of the less accurate games in terms of cues but it is now a proper 3D plane rather than [you guessed it] stereo.
 Thanks though! I'll keep that in mind.
 I thought the headphone settings took DH in mind.


----------



## Bleach1508

Mad, at the beginning of the post you've said "This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround" but most of the headphones you've covered are stereo headphones. Are you using any kind of amp to achieve it or you just using the Dolby Headphone you've said you are using? and which headphones are they if I might ask?​ THanks!​


----------



## Fegefeuer

bleach1508 said:


> Mad, at the beginning of the post you've said "This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround" but most of the headphones you've covered are stereo headphones. Are you using any kind of amp to achieve it or you just using the Dolby Headphone you've said you are using? and which headphones are they if I might ask?​ THanks!​


 
  
 How about reading the rest of the page?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

99.9% of headphones reviewed are stereo headphones. I'm using the Mixamp (which is a kind of amp with Dolby Headphone virtual surround).

As for what headphones... that's hard to answer, as if you know, you know I go therough many headphones in my life. Currently I use the Ultrasone HFI-15G for my open can, and the Monster DNA Pro whenever I need to use a mic (I use it with the V-moda Boompro mic).

If you're wondering why i don't have a high end headphone or whatever, it's because I'm still waiting on the Hifiman HE-400i, though that's just a wish.

I'm happy with the Ultrasone, and my DNA Pro for now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> How about reading the rest of the page?




Lol, and people wonder why I ignore their private messages.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Yep, switched it to speakers and it is definitely better.
> Still probably one of the less accurate games in terms of cues but it is now a proper 3D plane rather than [you guessed it] stereo.
> Thanks though! I'll keep that in mind.
> I thought the headphone settings took DH in mind.




2D sound plane. You hear a circle of sound (like a ring of speakers), but 3D would be a sphere of directions including above and below. Currently not available on consoles.


----------



## Stillhart

bleach1508 said:


> Mad, at the beginning of the post you've said "This quick guide is for Headphone gaming WITH virtual surround" but most of the headphones you've covered are stereo headphones. Are you using any kind of amp to achieve it or you just using the Dolby Headphone you've said you are using? and which headphones are they if I might ask?​ THanks!​


 
  
 Okay, as much as I sympathize with the newbies on this thread trying to figure things out, this has to be one of the lazier questions I've ever seen.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> 2D sound plane. You hear a circle of sound (like a ring of speakers), but 3D would be a sphere of directions including above and below. Currently not available on consoles.


 
 Yeah, thanks for reminding me


----------



## Sam21

Can someone tell me what sort of surround sound this  USB SC provides ?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-CE-S00022-S1-USB-SoundWave-7-1/dp/B000OOG3N0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397083440&sr=8-1&keywords=siig+7.1+pro
  
 is this Dolby headphone ? or something else ?
  
 here is a photo of the driver software :


----------



## MightySam06

Hey guys quick question, my X1's will be arriving tomorrow and I cannot wait! I bought them along with the boom pro mic and an astro mixamp. Will I need to purchase any additional cables or splitters to get everything up and running before they arrive or will all necessary cables be included with the mixamp to get me rolling? Thanks on advance. Really looking forward to these.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You should be set, though depending on your seating position, the optical and usb cable may not reach your seating position. I can't remember if the newish Mixamp has lengthy cables. I THINK it does. Well, you'll find out tomorrow.


Currently enjoying both the K612 and K712. Both are easily in my top recommendations for their respective price ranges. Reviews will be coming, so be patient.

K712 = mix between K702 and Annie. Large, holographic-like soundstage, warmer than 70x, less intimate than the Annie, mids slightly pushed back compared to Annie, upper mid hump typical of 70x. I still prefer the Annies due to the extra fullness and intimacy and less prone to fatigue, though the 712's larger soundstage and upper range clarity exceeds the Annie. Owning one would make the other redundant. Both are equally good FWIH, just slightly different with their own sets of strengths and weaknesses.

K612 = incredibly well balanced, not as refined as the 7xx series, but less fatiguing due to no upper mid hump. Reaches lower in the bass than the K712, and less mid bassy compared to 712. Grainy upper range. Amazing at moderate volumes. This is one of the most linear headphones I've heard, and yet retains a lot of harmonic qualities to it, so I find it to be one of the most fun balanced headphones. Definitely would choose it over the Senn 5xx series.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, thanks for reminding me



Sorry Conq, I didn't read the name of the poster... Thought you were new, and wanted to spread my hope (demand?) for 3D audio actually becoming widely available.

Instead I sounded like a dork.

...

Spread the word!
About 3D audio!


----------



## grumpy1471

mightysam06 said:


> Hey guys quick question, my X1's will be arriving tomorrow and I cannot wait! I bought them along with the boom pro mic and an astro mixamp. Will I need to purchase any additional cables or splitters to get everything up and running before they arrive or will all necessary cables be included with the mixamp to get me rolling? Thanks on advance. Really looking forward to these.


 
 The included cables should be good and you'll be all set to game like a god! I have my mixamp cables (both the USB and optical) running almost all the way across the room from where I have my PS4. Not sure exactly how long that is and I'm too lazy to measure 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. The cables should be long enough for your needs. The mixamp comes with a splitter for mic and headphone outputs but since you're using the X1 and the Boom Pro you should be great. Hopefully you enjoy the mixamp as well as the X1 and Boom Pro! I can vouch for the mixamp but I have yet to order the other two. Let me know how you like the combo! If you love it, I'll definitely have to order them!


----------



## Evshrug

X1 and BoomPro in Head-Fi's for sale forum...


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> X1 and BoomPro in Head-Fi's for sale forum...


 
  
 Go get it!!!


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> X1 and BoomPro in Head-Fi's for sale forum...


 


change is good said:


> Go get it!!!


 
 I wish I could purchase some used for a good price. I'm in Canada so that causes some issues with shipping and I don't quite want to spend $200+ on the off chance that it could get damaged or simply not work. Sadly, I have to wait for something more local to come up in which I can try them out or I can order them off amazon and have the ability to return them if I get a doa or defective one.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> I wish I could purchase some used for a good price. I'm in Canada so that causes some issues with shipping and I don't quite want to spend $200+ on the *off chance that it could get damaged or simply not work*. Sadly, I have to wait for something more local to come up in which I can try them out or I can order them off amazon and have the ability to return them if I get a doa or defective one.


 
  
 That's what PayPal's buyer's insurance is for!


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> That's what PayPal's buyer's insurance is for!


 
 The fact that I'm unable to get PayPal was another reason I can't buy used off here 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




. Should have mentioned that


----------



## jaysins

Been lurking for a little bit and I wanted to thank everyone for all the helpful advice. Have the K712 and O2 amp/DAC coming in either Friday or Monday. Question though, any other virtual surround sound devices besides the ones mentioned in the list worth checking out? I'm feeling like being a guinea pig.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

After having a little time of contemplation, I decided to hold off on my PC 360 plan. I think I may well go the same route as MightySam06. It seems to be a great combo.
  
 I have an aside question though. I've been trying to get my head around impedance matching and struggling to understand all the factors involved and how they relate to each other, but my research keeps throwing up the 1/8 rule.
  
 I've been using the SB Omni with my K240 MKIIs. Being I am not experienced with audio that even approaches high end, I don't really know what I'm to expect in terms of quality. The Omni has a 600-Ohm impedance and the K240 MKII's have a 55-Ohms max impedance. Does this mean I am getting sub-par performance from this combo?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not the same thing. The Omni states 600ohm, that probably just means it can handle headphones that high in impedance (i hate that rating because technically, anything amp can hadnle any headphone, including a cellphone's headphone jack being able to power 600ohms loudly, depending on headphone and sensitivity). The output impedance is typically nowhere near that high, instead being around 2-10ohms for most amps I've seen, with some varying levels, and some reaching below 1ohm. The 1/8th rule is basically that you want the output impedance of an amp to be around 1/8th of a headphones impedance. I'm not going to go through the science of all that, as google can better serve your needs. I'm gonna make an assumption that the output impedance of the Omni is probably 10ohms, so you'll want to pair it with headphones that are 80ohms or higher, though this is NOT a law. Not all headphones suffer from impedance mismatching. I've used the Denon D7000 (25ohm) with the Fiio E9 (10ohm), and it sounded just fine, despite the E9 being more ideal for 80ohms or higher.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Not the same thing. The Omni states 600ohm, that probably just means it can handle headphones that high in impedance (i hate that rating because technically, anything amp can hadnle any headphone, including a cellphone's headphone jack being able to power 600ohms loudly, depending on headphone and sensitivity). The output impedance is typically nowhere near that high, instead being around 2-10ohms for most amps I've seen, with some varying levels, and some reaching below 1ohm. The 1/8th rule is basically that you want the output impedance of an amp to be around 1/8th of a headphones impedance. I'm not going to go through the science of all that, as google can better serve your needs. I'm gonna make an assumption that the output impedance of the Omni is probably 10ohms, so you'll want to pair it with headphones that are 80ohms or higher, though this is NOT a law. Not all headphones suffer from impedance mismatching. I've used the Denon D7000 (25ohm) with the Fiio E9 (10ohm), and it sounded just fine, despite the E9 being more ideal for 80ohms or higher.


 
 Thanks. I'll have a look and see if I can find more detailed specs on the Omni. I find this subject quite confusing, and like I said, not having heard the K240's under ideal circumstances means I don't know what they should sound like at their best.


----------



## benbenkr

conquerator2 said:


> Yep, switched it to speakers and it is definitely better.
> Still probably one of the less accurate games in terms of cues but it is now a proper 3D plane rather than [you guessed it] stereo.
> Thanks though! I'll keep that in mind.
> I thought the headphone settings took DH in mind.


 
  
 One more thing, GTA5 is quite poorly done in its audio department. It just seems that there's a lack of dynamics in the game's audio mix.
  
 Really, not a good game to judge for virtual surround. Seems to be an issue with most open-world games though, inFamous Second Son is the latest victim.


----------



## Bleach1508

Well thanks for the nice replays all...
 I did read the rest of the thread (not each and every single word I admit) but since I'm new in the audiophile scene I not familiar with all the Dolby Headphone\amps things so I'm still trying to connect the dots.
 Have a great weekend all


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bleach1508 said:


> Well thanks for the nice replays all...
> I did read the rest of the thread (not each and every single word I admit) but since I'm new in the audiophile scene I not familiar with all the Dolby Headphone\amps things so I'm still trying to connect the dots.
> Have a great weekend all


 
 A couple of posts below your original, MLE did reply to you.


----------



## conquerator2

benbenkr said:


> One more thing, GTA5 is quite poorly done in its audio department. It just seems that there's a lack of dynamics in the game's audio mix.
> 
> Really, not a good game to judge for virtual surround. Seems to be an issue with most open-world games though, inFamous Second Son is the latest victim.




Fallout 3/NV does not have that issue. Both sounder amazing.
I blame Rockstar rather than open world games.
I observe the same lack of dynamics as you said.
Dont worry though my experience is profound


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Read the PDF, visited the website and Googled but cannot find info on the output impedance of the jack for the Omni. Guess I'd have to email them... but I don't want to... again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, output impedance is a spec that is rarely stated.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, output impedance is a spec that is rarely stated.


 
 Maybe I'll get around to emailing them at some point when I can be bothered. To me they sound good, but I don't know how good they should or can sound. In time I'll get myself an amp to test them out with and then I'll know what to expect from them.


----------



## Evshrug

grumpy1471 said:


> The fact that I'm unable to get PayPal was another reason I can't buy used off here :eek: . Should have mentioned that




So, you're new here, and for some reason you're not allowed to use Paypal? Are you accounting for the exchange rate between Canadian and US dollar?



napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks. I'll have a look and see if I can find more detailed specs on the Omni. I find this subject quite confusing, and like I said, not having heard the K240's under ideal circumstances means I don't know what they should sound like at their best.




The sound may improve a bit with an amp, but don't get too hung up on the output impedance thing. It was started by a guy who got banned for publicly starting a flame war against representatives of a gear manufacturer over an issue that missed the bigger picture. He tested one or two Sennheisers, found those headphones to have increased bass response (presence but also a bit of bloat), and then assumed/concluded that would be the case for all headphones. If a headphone has a linear impedance curve, then the output impedance of an amp will have little effect at all.

I wouldn't worry much about output impedance, just worry if an amp supplies ample current and if it has low distortion, THOSE factors make a difference that is easily heard. And again, small differences between amps (especially modern solid-state amps), bigger difference between headphones. If you keep reading different parts of head-fi (amp reviews, Sound Science forum), you'll pick up more advanced stuff eventually, but you don't need to rush it. I often find newbie "Objectivists" who miss the forest for the trees, and many pass along hearsay without explaining, for example many can't answer if asked "What actually happens if you don't follow the 1/8th 'rule'?"

Edit: If you entertain the idea that a good amp makes a (nice, positive,) small improvement, would you trust me when I say that if it sounds very good, you don't have to worry about 1/8th impedance? The end goal is "*Does it sound good*," not "Does it have all the 'right' numbers?"


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Thanks for the advice, Evshrug.
  
 I read a guide here on Head-fi about impedance. It started with a nice analogy related to water going through a hose to a sprinkler. I understood what he was saying there, but then he started using algebraic formulas, I then went cross eyed and started bleeding from the ears and nose.
  
 I'm trying not to get hung up on the impedance thing, but the only reason I am concerned about it is wanting to ensure I'm getting decent performance out of what is fairly expensive equipment (compared to what I've used before).
  
 My time here recently on Head-fi has also made me want to get back into buying more music again. I used to regularly buy CDs, but about ten years ago I had a CD case stolen that contained a large chunk of my collection. I'm not sure why, but after that I've barely bought any music. I'm now looking to buy all those albums (not all at once) that I've never got around to listening to but feel I should have. Hence, buying a decent amp is becoming something that interests me 
  
 Edit: I should note that my average volume on the Omni is between 15-20 percent. I have not noticed any distortion. The only issue I have had was when playing Dishonored, but this issue was present when sound was output through the speakers and I found others have had problems with the audio too, so I'm guessing it's the game.


----------



## Evshrug

The only issue I had with my Omni was a rhythmic popping while using a mic in borderlands 2... otherwise it's been fine. Could be related that I only did a standard uninstall of my SoundBlaster Z drivers before installing the Omni ones.

Thing is, I believe the O2 and ODAC are very good products. I even borrowed an ODAC once, but something about my system prevented it from working. However, a lot of the stuff about "why choose THIS amp" sounds like old scare tactics to encourage sales, and I still don't understand WHY the designer spent all that time on "no proceeds for the designer" products and blog posts that cast most other products in bad light. I know what that sounds like, and I know there is some fairly good learning that can be had on his blog, but some of the things he concludes don't match up with my experiences and other Head-Fi'ers in the sound science forums and amp appreciation threads have pointed out the bigger scope of things. And I looked up impedance curves, I learned the history of impedance "matching", and quite simply the short of it is: the 1/8th rule is more of a guideline, only applies some of the time, and surprisingly most of my headphones are unaffected and the one that should be still sounds good.

I'm always willing to reconsider my thoughts with good evidence, I'm not an expert, but other people should also exercise critical thinking IMO.

/rant


----------



## Bleach1508

I have a question regarding connecting the headphones so a receiver\amp.
 I've decided to buy the OG CAL and after keep reading the posts here I thought about buying an amp (I need to read\listen about DH\THX\SBX a little more). My question is, both my XBOX360 and PS3 are connected via HDMI to a Denon receiver which capable of playing DTS sound (etc.) but not supporting DH. If I connect my headphones directly to the receiver (using the phones audio output) will it be the same as if I connect the headphones to a HD\THX\SBX amp? Or the receiver will just output a stereo sound?
 If I still need to buy an amp in order to hear Surround sound i'll appreciate any recommendation for a budget (~50$) amp.
 Thanks!


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> So, you're new here, and for some reason you're not allowed to use Paypal? Are you accounting for the exchange rate between Canadian and US dollar?


 
 Does me being new here somehow directly correlate with my ability to obtain a Paypal account? The exchange rate isn't an issue whatsoever. I just can't sign up (at least not yet) without risking my account being frozen.


----------



## martin vegas

600ohm impedance means that the headphone amp will power headphones up to 600ohm.. p.s just went to buy a game for my ps4 from my local game shop and I couldn't even find one worth buying,I had to pre order watchdogs to get the 1 hour extra gameplay..i will download outlast, it was free with psn+ not that long ago but I will have to pay for it now!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bleach1508 said:


> I have a question regarding connecting the headphones so a receiver\amp.
> I've decided to buy the OG CAL and after keep reading the posts here I thought about buying an amp (I need to read\listen about DH\THX\SBX a little more). My question is, both my XBOX360 and PS3 are connected via HDMI to a Denon receiver which capable of playing DTS sound (etc.) but not supporting DH. If I connect my headphones directly to the receiver (using the phones audio output) will it be the same as if I connect the headphones to a HD\THX\SBX amp? Or the receiver will just output a stereo sound?
> If I still need to buy an amp in order to hear Surround sound i'll appreciate any recommendation for a budget (~50$) amp.
> Thanks!


 
 It should tell you in the manual of your receiver whether it does virtual surround. For example, my Yamaha receiver uses Silent Cinema (Yamaha's equivalent to DH). If it doesn't say anything about such a technology, I would assume it only outputs stereo.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> The only issue I had with my Omni was a rhythmic popping while using a mic in borderlands 2... otherwise it's been fine. Could be related that I only did a standard uninstall of my SoundBlaster Z drivers before installing the Omni ones.
> 
> Thing is, I believe the O2 and ODAC are very good products. I even borrowed an ODAC once, but something about my system prevented it from working. However, a lot of the stuff about "why choose THIS amp" sounds like old scare tactics to encourage sales, and I still don't understand WHY the designer spent all that time on "no proceeds for the designer" products and blog posts that cast most other products in bad light. I know what that sounds like, and I know there is some fairly good learning that can be had on his blog, but some of the things he concludes don't match up with my experiences and other Head-Fi'ers in the sound science forums and amp appreciation threads have pointed out the bigger scope of things. And I looked up impedance curves, I learned the history of impedance "matching", and quite simply the short of it is: the 1/8th rule is more of a guideline, only applies some of the time, and surprisingly most of my headphones are unaffected and the one that should be still sounds good.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm, the issue with Dishonored could be described as popping (personally I'd describe it as a "tuk" noise). It was most obvious on the level where you go to a costume party. There is the sound of fireworks in the background, it is when these sounds are playing when the problem is at its worst, but it was present in the previous level too. I think it is a case of the audio clipping for some reason.
  
 I appreciate the virtue of critical thinking, however this is something that can only be done with experience. At the moment my only reference is the equipment I have, so there is no way of me knowing if it is under-performing. You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".
  
 Edit: I was trying to edit my previous post and add this... but I failed. Sorry for the double post.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks for the advice, Evshrug.
> 
> I read a guide here on Head-fi about impedance. It started with a nice analogy related to water going through a hose to a sprinkler. I understood what he was saying there, but then he started using algebraic formulas, I then went cross eyed and started bleeding from the ears and nose.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ev's advice is sound (no pun intended).  Go for what sounds good to your ears more than anything else.  If you think it sounds good, why worry about abstract math?
  
 That said... I got my amp in last night (because change is good) and the change with the Q701 is noticeable.  (I too was running off the Sound Blaster Omni.)  It's really true that you don't know what they're capable of until you amp them.  They didn't sound bad before, but they sound really good now!
  
 My point?  If you're satified now, don't bother.  If you want to upgrade because you're feeling the itch, an amp will definitely serve you well.  I'm sure any of the inexpensive ones in the guide will be fine (E12, Magni/Vali, E09K, O2).
  


> I appreciate the virtue of critical thinking, however this is something that can only be done with experience. At the moment my only reference is the equipment I have, so there is no way of me knowing if it is under-performing. You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".


 
  
 Dude, I've learned to be really careful of that quote.  It's almost always true, and not always for the better.  For example, when I finally dropped some real cash on a nice suspension for my motorcycle, it was night and day.  I had no idea what I was missing and I could never go back.  Now I HAVE to spend money for a nice suspension on every bike because I hate the feel of a crappy suspension.  It's expensive!
  
 If you're satisfied with your current sound, be careful about upgrading or you may never want to go back!  lol


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> Ev's advice is sound (no pun intended).  Go for what sounds good to your ears more than anything else.  If you think it sounds good, why worry about abstract math?
> 
> That said... I got my amp in last night (because change is good) and the change with the Q701 is noticeable.  (I too was running off the Sound Blaster Omni.)  It's really true that you don't know what they're capable of until you amp them.  They didn't sound bad before, but they sound really good now!
> 
> ...


 
 Itchy, must scratch itch! lol
  
 I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> Itchy, must scratch itch! lol
> 
> I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.


 
 It is...


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> Itchy, must scratch itch! lol
> 
> I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.


 
  
  


conquerator2 said:


> It is...


 
  
 It is... a place that MAKES people itchy!  >.<


----------



## Evshrug

grumpy1471 said:


> Does me being new here somehow directly correlate with my ability to obtain a Paypal account? The exchange rate isn't an issue whatsoever. I just can't sign up (at least not yet) without risking my account being frozen.



What I meant was
A.) You are new here, so a seller has no record of your interactions/reputation, which might be okay, except
B.) there's some reason you can't sign up for paypal, which is like 3rd party insurance for buyer and seller.

I totally understand wanting to find a deal, and yes this hobby sometimes stretches our budget (how could something be worth $250??), but all I'm saying is if a seller knows he/she has a good headphone in good condition, he/she is going to want it to fetch a good price. A deep discount is kinda like a favor, and nobody here can get an idea of why they would basically be losing money to help you buy headphones.



martin vegas said:


> 600ohm impedance means that the headphone amp will power headphones up to 600ohm...



Ehhhhh... That's what the marketing is trying to indicate, but it's actually not a good indicator. It's like trying to find out how fast a car is when the only data you have is how far they drove.





napalmhardcore said:


> You often hear of people who say things like "I thought my old (insert product here) was good until I tried this. I could never go back to it now that I've experienced (insert new product here)".



The % something changes might be small, but the listener might VALUE that change a lot. I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying output impedance shouldn't be your main reason for getting an amp (if that's all, just get a FiiO E5)



napalmhardcore said:


> Itchy, must scratch itch! lol
> 
> I get the impression that head-fi is a gathering place for itchy people.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Lol! There is probably a forum where people look for the best shampoos and are continuously buying more and more expensive ones like people here do with audio equipment. Is there such thing as a shampoophile? They'd probably be calling us noobs.
  
 Back on topic, I was just looking through the Fiio range. I personally prefer the idea of a desktop amp. I then looked at portable media players out of curiosity and discovered the Astell&Kern AK240. I don't think I'll ever be that itchy!


----------



## Murder Mike

napalmhardcore said:


> Lol! There is probably a forum where people look for the best shampoos and are continuously buying more and more expensive ones like people here do with audio equipment. Is there such thing as a shampoophile? They'd probably be calling us noobs.


 
  
 There are enthusiasts for anything you can imagine. I'm sure there's some salon forum somewhere with a thread on shampoo.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> It is... a place that MAKES people itchy!  >.<


 
 He meant ichi..means number one!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

murder mike said:


> There are enthusiasts for anything you can imagine. I'm sure there's some salon forum somewhere with a thread on shampoo.


 
 But do they call themselves shampoophiles? I have no idea why the idea of a shampoophile is funny to me, but it is.
  
 Maybe one day I'll act my age, but I'm 30 now and it hasn't happened yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath.
  
 For those who have played RE1: Itchy, tasty.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> What I meant was
> A.) You are new here, so a seller has no record of your interactions/reputation, which might be okay, except
> B.) there's some reason you can't sign up for paypal, which is like 3rd party insurance for buyer and seller.
> 
> I totally understand wanting to find a deal, and yes this hobby sometimes stretches our budget (how could something be worth $250??), but all I'm saying is if a seller knows he/she has a good headphone in good condition, he/she is going to want it to fetch a good price. A deep discount is kinda like a favor, and nobody here can get an idea of why they would basically be losing money to help you buy headphones.




Okay thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if you were making a good point or insulting me because I am new here (saldy, I assumed the latter). I definitely get that PayPal is kind of like a "You can trust me" badge around here because of the insurance on both ends. Sadly I am under 18 (I was hoping you'd figure that out), so I can't sign up for a Paypal account legally and can risk having my account frozen if I do sign up. I hadn't known anything about PayPal (not even the insurance) until a couple of days ago. I turned to Head-Fi to get advice on the matter of buying some good audio gear, however, when it comes to buying used items that are expensive to begin with when I'm in a different country, I'm slightly hesitant because it's such a huge purchase compared to the other headphones I have bought and I don't want anything to go wrong. Without the Paypal, I have no backup plan so I have to buy new off amazon and such where I do have a backup plan with my method of purchase. When I said I want a good deal, I was simply referring to the little bit off the new price for it being used and not to the extent of paying ~$150 for a $250 pair of headphones. I have lots of experience with selling locally and know the importance of getting a fair amount of money for an item. I would prefer to make my first somewhat expensive purchase for audio gear a good experience and free of hiccups. In the end, I will be buying the X1 either local if they are used or off amazon if they are new.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Ev's advice is sound (no pun intended).  Go for what sounds good to your ears more than anything else.  If you think it sounds good, why worry about abstract math?
> 
> That said... I got my amp in last night (because change is good) and the change with the Q701 is noticeable.  (I too was running off the Sound Blaster Omni.)  It's really true that you don't know what they're capable of until you amp them.  They didn't sound bad before, but they sound really good now!
> 
> ...


 
 My HUGE problem is that I can't quite find my "satisfied" zone when it comes to audio. I started with the crappy apple earphones and a pair of on ear skullcandy headphones and I was almost completely oblivious to the audiophile world at that time, so, I was satisfied. After contemplating buying some over ear headphones for a trip, I stumbled upon Head-Fi and was amazed that there were some headphones out there that were well around $1000. After tons of research, I ended up buying a pair of Sennheiser HD449 over ears. Listened to them during a good portion of the trip and was amazed about how much of my music I was missing. Of course, being me, I eventually got bored of those and modded them for more bass as they were quite flat sounding.
  
 After that, I wanted to replace my earphones to something budget friendly but nice sounding. I stumbled upon the HA-FX40 and saw people talking about how it was a hidden gem and such. Went out and bought a pair and was amazed at how much better it sounded than my POS apple ones. After I got bored of the FX40s, I upgraded to some GR07 Bass Editions and currently love those. 
  
 As for my Skullcandy headphones, they broke and I eventually replaced them with some V-Moda M80s. Loved em', same story as the other two.
  
 Now, I'm here looking for some headphones to replace both my HD449s and my Astro A40s as a gaming/music/movie headphone. I have decided on the X1 and the Boom Pro to go along with my Astro Mixamp. 
  
 I'm quite scared that I will get the X1s and end up getting bored of those. Hopefully they finally hit my "satisfied" spot and I will stop upgrading constantly. 
  
 Another issue I have is that now, when I listen to other people's audio gear, I have to force myself to not cringe because I'm so used to my higher level headphones and earphones. 
  
 So... in the end... Head-Fi has changed my life for better and for worse


----------



## Evshrug

Napalm, I know why you think it's funny.


napalmhardcore said:


> But do they call themselves shampoophiles? I have no idea why the idea of a sham*poop*hile is funny to me, but it is.
> 
> Maybe one day I'll act my age, but I'm 30 now and it hasn't happened yet, so I wouldn't hold your breath.



I am a child




grumpy1471 said:


> Okay thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if you were making a good point or insulting me because I am new here.



Grumps,
I totally get it. When I was 15, I mowed lawns and babysat a little, saving as much as I could to buy an iBook. It took the WHOLE YEAR, but I scraped up the $1700 I needed to buy it (tho my mom ended up helping on the Tax, towards using it for school she said), so I get it that parting with any sizable stash of cash is a big deal, and you want to do it "right."

I don't get pleasure out of making people feel bad, in fact it makes me queasy, but I just wanted to make it easier to understand the other side. And for you, Amazon (even Amazon warehouse) does have the profit margins to offer a very liberal return policy, so you may pay a bit more but it might be the best fit for you.

Sorry if I sounded like an ass, hope ya laughed at the shampoo. It's been a kinda stressful day over here, but everything will be cool


----------



## Napalmhardcore

It was staring me in the face all along!


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> It was staring me in the face all along!


 
  
 Amusingly, I didn't even notice because I was chuckling at the pretentious pronunciation: shampo'ophile (two long o's, like zooastrian).  The idea of people taking shampoo seriously enough to have such a serious sounding work... man I'm a nerd...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I feel I've lowered the tone of this thread a little lol.
  
 Back on topic, aren't headphones great? Headphones, headphones, headphones. Mmmm lovely headphones.
  
 I tend to give myself a couple of days to sleep on a decision and see how it sits with me. I think I'll leave it another day or so, but the X1, Boompro and Mixamp combo seems a good way to go. It's hardly the most original decision, seeing how a couple of others seem to be going that route. However it will fulfil my needs, and if I'm not satisfied, I'll blame it on them and say it was peer pressure


----------



## autoteleology

Does anyone know where I could get a *Victor SU-DH1*? I've been down the Astro Mixamp lane and I think the audio quality of the AM is terrible.


----------



## grumpy1471

napalmhardcore said:


> I feel I've lowered the tone of this thread a little lol.
> 
> *Back on topic, aren't headphones great? Headphones, headphones, headphones. Mmmm lovely headphones.*
> 
> I tend to give myself a couple of days to sleep on a decision and see how it sits with me. I think I'll leave it another day or so, but the X1, Boompro and Mixamp combo seems a good way to go. It's hardly the most original decision, seeing how a couple of others seem to be going that route. However it will fulfil my needs, and if I'm not satisfied, I'll blame it on them and say it was peer pressure




I laughed a bit more than I should have at this... Probably because I had a tiring day. I think I'm going to wait a little while before I pull the trigger on the X1 and Boom Pro. I shouldn't ignore my tiny speck of doubt. It's nice to have others making the same choices as the ones I'm making at the same time as it adds a bit more confidence to this purchase.


----------



## grumpy1471

tus-chan said:


> Does anyone know where I could get a *Victor SU-DH1*? I've been down the Astro Mixamp lane and I think the audio quality of the AM is terrible.




Could you elaborate as to why you found the Mixamp bad? Im curious  From what I see online, the SU-DH1 is only for headphones and not headsets so you'd lose the mic functionality (just in case you didn't know already). When I had my mixamp set up on my PC, I had my audio output set to stereo and not 5.1 (I felt really dumb after I saw that) and they sounded bad until I set it to 5.1.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

tus-chan said:


> Does anyone know where I could get a *Victor SU-DH1*? I've been down the Astro Mixamp lane and I think the audio quality of the AM is terrible.


 




  
 I was just saying about how it seemed a good way to go!


grumpy1471 said:


> I laughed a bit more than I should have at this... Probably because I had a tiring day. I think I'm going to wait a little while before I pull the trigger on the X1 and Boom Pro. I shouldn't ignore my tiny speck of doubt. It's nice to have others making the same choices as the ones I'm making at the same time as it adds a bit more confidence to this purchase.


 
 You mentioned doubt and then this happens. Look what you've done!




  
 Edit: Knew I'd find a relevant pic eventually.


----------



## autoteleology

grumpy1471 said:


> Could you elaborate as to why you found the Mixamp bad? Im curious
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The sound is harsh. rough, and congested compared to your typical standalone audiophile equipment. The spatial processing is very good, but the actual sound quality of the amp and DAC are poor from my experience. I also do not want the massive cluster of wires that comes along with having the device hooked up.
  
 Also, I game on PC and have a standalone mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> Does anyone know where I could get a *Victor SU-DH1*? I've been down the Astro Mixamp lane and I think the audio quality of the AM is terrible.




You're better off finding an older Marantz or Harman Kardon receiver with Dolby Headphone.

The SU-DH1 may not hiss, but it's internal amp thins up the sound a bit. I find the Mixamp to sound better, with the exception of hiss. The SU-DH1's best thing is the ability to decode DTS (though the PS4 now has settings to output Dolby for everything), and that it can do DH-1, and DH-3 (whereas the Mixamps and most other similar devices do DH-2 only. DH-1 sounds more refined and less processed, but noticeably smaller soundstage. It's like stereo headphones with Dolby Headphone positional cues, whereas DH-2 sounds like a virtual room of speakers. DH-3 just sounbds like a mess of processing.


----------



## grumpy1471

tus-chan said:


> The sound is harsh. rough, and congested compared to your typical standalone audiophile equipment. The spatial processing is very good, but the actual sound quality of the amp and DAC are poor from my experience.
> 
> Also, I game on PC and have a standalone mic.




Ah okay. For me the mixamp seems to be sufficient for my needs in terms of console and PC gaming as well as audio quality (at least for now). You might have to do some digging to get a SU-DH1 as I can't find one for sale at it's original price after a quick search.


----------



## grumpy1471

napalmhardcore said:


> I was just saying about how it seemed a good way to go!
> You mentioned doubt and then this happens. Look what you've done!




Wow! Two really funny posts in one day? You're on a roll! You can't ignore the doubt when you're making a purchase. Conflicting opinions on the internet can definitely make it even more difficult to settle on one sure thing. From what I see, however, the X1 is definitely a very solid and common choice and seems to be really well rated and received. Of course, if you concentrate on the doubt and conflicting opinions, it will really mess with your ability to make a good decision.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> The sound is harsh. rough, and congested compared to your typical standalone audiophile equipment. The spatial processing is very good, but the actual sound quality of the amp and DAC are poor from my experience. I also do not want the massive cluster of wires that comes along with having the device hooked up.
> 
> Also, I game on PC and have a standalone mic.




Dude, if you game on PC, don't use the Mixamp. AT cheapest, get a Xonar U3. If you have an optical dac (cheapest being a Fiio D03k), you can completely bypass the Xonar's amp and dac, and just send the Dolby Headphone signal to your own amp/dac. I have one, and I send the signal to my Fiio E17 amp/dac (which has an optical input). Sounds great, and the U3 is hella cheap.

It's not worth spending more on a better pc device, since you only need it to send the signal to your own amp/dac. U3 is a perfect choice.

I really need to add it to my guide.


----------



## kcazbarach

grumpy1471 said:


> Okay thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if you were making a good point or insulting me because I am new here (saldy, I assumed the latter). I definitely get that PayPal is kind of like a "You can trust me" badge around here because of the insurance on both ends. Sadly I am under 18 (I was hoping you'd figure that out), so I can't sign up for a Paypal account legally and can risk having my account frozen if I do sign up. I hadn't known anything about PayPal (not even the insurance) until a couple of days ago. I turned to Head-Fi to get advice on the matter of buying some good audio gear, however, when it comes to buying used items that are expensive to begin with when I'm in a different country, I'm slightly hesitant because it's such a huge purchase compared to the other headphones I have bought and I don't want anything to go wrong. Without the Paypal, I have no backup plan so I have to buy new off amazon and such where I do have a backup plan with my method of purchase. When I said I want a good deal, I was simply referring to the little bit off the new price for it being used and not to the extent of paying ~$150 for a $250 pair of headphones. I have lots of experience with selling locally and know the importance of getting a fair amount of money for an item. I would prefer to make my first somewhat expensive purchase for audio gear a good experience and free of hiccups. In the end, I will be buying the X1 either local if they are used or off amazon if they are new.


 
  
 I signed up for Paypal at 16, and then just changed my birthdate to my real one when I did finally turn 18.
  
 (they just cared about the money they were getting because of my ebay account).
  
 It's definitely possible to probably get one, or get one in your parent's name if you can.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

grumpy1471 said:


> Wow! Two really funny posts in one day? You're on a roll! You can't ignore the doubt when you're making a purchase. Conflicting opinions on the internet can definitely make it even more difficult to settle on one sure thing. From what I see, however, the X1 is definitely a very solid and common choice and seems to be really well rated and received. Of course, if you concentrate on the doubt and conflicting opinions, it will really mess with your ability to make a good decision.


 
 I'm not too put off really, just wanted to make the joke (which I've updated with another pic). The two I'm torn between are the Mixamp and the Recon 3D. I think I'll try the Mixamp, and down the road, if curiosity gets the better of me I'll consider the Recon 3D. That is unless something better comes out in the meantime. In all honesty, I plan more purchases than I execute due to not having the cash.


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not too put off really, just wanted to make the joke (which I've updated with another pic). The two I'm torn between are the Mixamp and the Recon 3D. I think I'll try the Mixamp, and down the road, if curiosity gets the better of me I'll consider the Recon 3D. That is unless something better comes out in the meantime. In all honesty, I plan more purchases than I execute due to not having the cash.


 
  
 Not sure where you live, but I stumbled across a Recon for $5 at Fry's (in -store).  They had two so I bought em both.  Haven't regretted it yet.
  
 Even if you can't get one for that cheap, there's something to be said for the price difference between a Recon ($70) and a Mixamp ($130)... especially if you prefer the THX sound processing.


----------



## grumpy1471

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not too put off really, just wanted to make the joke (which I've updated with another pic). The two I'm torn between are the Mixamp and the Recon 3D. I think I'll try the Mixamp, and down the road, if curiosity gets the better of me I'll consider the Recon 3D. That is unless something better comes out in the meantime. In all honesty, I plan more purchases than I execute due to not having the cash.




I do the same thing all the time. I'll be pushing my limits on money with the X1 and Boom Pro. Since I just dropped $1400 on a new gaming PC (custom built), I probably shouldn't bother with the Recon3D if I already have the mixamp. Also, Mad Lust Envy, do you know if the Recon3D has an actual 3D (up and down as well as all around) output as opposed to the 2D sound that the mixamp outputs (just all around).

Edit: If this is a really dumb question, please let me know. I have no clue what I'm talking about


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> Not sure where you live, but I stumbled across a Recon for $5 at Fry's (in -store).  They had two so I bought em both.  Haven't regretted it yet.
> 
> Even if you can't get one for that cheap, there's something to be said for the price difference between a Recon ($70) and a Mixamp ($130)... especially if you prefer the THX sound processing.


 
 I've watched some videos that demonstrate some of the virtual surround technologies, but I find it very different watching compared to when I'm in control and reacting to the cues. I would like to try them all eventually but at the moment I'm slightly more curious to try DH given its popularity.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I do the same thing all the time. I'll be pushing my limits on money with the X1 and Boom Pro. Since I just dropped $1400 on a new gaming PC (custom built), I probably shouldn't bother with the Recon3D if I already have the mixamp. Also, Mad Lust Envy, do you know if the Recon3D has an actual 3D (up and down as well as all around) output as opposed to the 2D sound that the mixamp outputs (just all around).
> 
> Edit: If this is a really dumb question, please let me know. I have no clue what I'm talking about


 
  
 I think the Nameless guide and Evshrug's guide are good places for this info.  The short answer is that anything with Dolby Headphone won't give you 3D.  You won't be getting 3D out of any console-based device like the Mixamp or Recon.  Some sound cards can do 3D and it's rumored that the PS4 will be able to do 3D at some point (the hardware is there, just not the software).
  
 You're also limited by whether or not the game is providing the 3D cues.  My understanding is that many games don't bother since most people aren't setup to hear them.


----------



## iamstumper

mad lust envy said:


> Dude, if you game on PC, don't use the Mixamp. AT cheapest, get a Xonar U3. If you have an optical dac (cheapest being a Fiio D03k), you can completely bypass the Xonar's amp and dac, and just send the Dolby Headphone signal to your own amp/dac. I have one, and I send the signal to my Fiio E17 amp/dac (which has an optical input). Sounds great, and the U3 is hella cheap.
> 
> It's not worth spending more on a better pc device, since you only need it to send the signal to your own amp/dac. U3 is a perfect choice.
> 
> I really need to add it to my guide.


 
 I came across the Asus Xonar U3 while researching alternatives for laptop use.  Shortly after that I acquired the Asus Xonar U7.
  
 I like both and would have zero qualms about recommending either (depending on scenario of course).  I primarily use the U7 on my laptop paired with AKG K712 Pro.
  
 And yes, you definitely should add the U3 to your guide .... and the U7 while you're at it.  It would have saved me (and it's all about me right?  right?! ;->) so much time when I was researching headphones and surround sound processors for laptop use!

 Since we're all talking about itches ...
  
 While I'm thoroughly enjoying laptop -> U7 -> K712 for the past couple of months, I find myself reading about Project Ember (oooohhhh shiny).  And wondering what a good DAC pairing would be????  Then I have to remind myself one step at a time.
  
 Which leads me right back to thinking on Laptop -> U7 -> DAC -> Project Ember -> K712 .... and somewhere in there I have to try a good pair of closed headphones to complement my open ones (believe Change recommended the Shure 1540).  And now my portable solution is lackluster AND vmoda released the XS .... sigh


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Recon 3D is like the Mixamp in that it takes in a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal. You can't get vertical positional cues from something deisgned to give horizontal speaker cues. For vertical audio placement, that's PC gaming territory, and that's something that seems to be limited to much older games, with some algorithms no longer used, etc. Nameless knows a lot more about that.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> I think the Nameless guide and Evshrug's guide are good places for this info.  The short answer is that anything with Dolby Headphone won't give you 3D.  You won't be getting 3D out of any console-based device like the Mixamp or Recon.  Some sound cards can do 3D and it's rumored that the PS4 will be able to do 3D at some point (the hardware is there, just not the software).
> 
> You're also limited by whether or not the game is providing the 3D cues.  My understanding is that many games don't bother since most people aren't setup to hear them.


 
 I seem to remember the marketing blurb for the Recon claimed it had 3D positioning (including above and below) but as you say, I wouldn't have thought the cues were in the software, so I wrote it off as advertising fluff.
  
 With that I'm off to bed.


----------



## Stillhart

I believe that if you use the Recon with USB from a PC, it can.  If you use it with Optical from a console, it can't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, that's if you go deep into game's settings, and do some workaround, etc. I certainly don't have time for that, and FWIR, most new games don't even support it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Yes, that's if you go deep into game's settings, and do some workaround, etc. I certainly don't have time for that, and FWIR, most new games don't even support it.


 
 I seem to vaguely remember reading a discussion about how Creative used to have a particular kind of sound technology that was abandoned. I remember the guy was basically saying that he thought Creative isn't as good as they used to be. This sound tech apparently even simulated the Doppler effect.


----------



## benbenkr

I just got word that The Last of Us Remastered for the PS4 will be using some "new" audio technologies, this came directly from one of the sound designers in TLoU. There's a good bet that they're using AMD's TrueAudio.
  
 Though TrueAudio was pretty glitchy and poorly implemented on Thief (on the PC), would be interesting to see what Naughty Dog can do then. I mean, in the hands of a more capable team.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool. This is the first time I look forward to turning off the DH button on my Mixamp. Other than when I play games that only do stereo. Should be very simple to compare the surround emulation with the flick of the DH button.

That being said, Naughty Dog games don't do all that well with surround cues.

I'm almost positive we can expect an Uncharted Full HD collection a year before Uncharted 4 hits.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Cool. This is the first time I look forward to turning off the DH button on my Mixamp. Other than when I play games that only do stereo. Should be very simple to compare the surround emulation with the flick of the DH button.
> 
> That being said, Naughty Dog games don't do all that well with surround cues.
> 
> I'm almost positive we can expect an Uncharted Full HD collection a year before Uncharted 4 hits.




Maybe not Uncharted, but The Last of Us had one of the best if not the best cues and overall quality I've heard on a console so far.
Everything sounds very good and is easy to locate.
Unlike GTA V for example..
IMO, YMMV.


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> Cool. This is the first time I look forward to turning off the DH button on my Mixamp. Other than when I play games that only do stereo. Should be very simple to compare the surround emulation with the flick of the DH button.
> 
> That being said, Naughty Dog games don't do all that well with surround cues.
> 
> I'm almost positive we can expect an Uncharted Full HD collection a year before Uncharted 4 hits.


 
  
 Really? I personally thought that TLoU was quite exceptional in surround cues and overall mixing quality. Ranks up there with MGS4, which I think is still the best in audio production on a console game.
  
 Wow Uncharted Full HD? Please, Lord no.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.

And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series. Uncharted 2 was arguably the best last gen game prior to TLOU.

I wouldn't mind going through those games at 1080p (and hopefully) 60fps. With the collection, they could add the Vita Uncharted game, which I KNOW most console gamers missed.


I don;t understand all the hate for collections. Or any game for that matter. You don't have to buy a game. Surely, a masterpiece series like Uncharted is more worthwhile than many other games that get updated ports.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I would buy an Uncharted Remaster, no hesitation.
  
 I agree on the TLOU. Even though I bought it for my sister (my time shall come with the Remaster) I watched her play over my home theatre and once with the Mixamp (putting on the headphones while she played a few minutes) and I agree with ben and conqueror. 
  
 As usual Sony games are also always carefully and well recorded.
  
 I recently wrote a mail to the good Dr. of Sucker Punch asking about binaural audio on the PS4 (funny thing is I did it one day before the revealed their binaural audio testing center) but sadly got no answer. Infamous audio mix is very good as well. 
  
 I hope we'll get your geometry/material/coordinates rendering back (as it's actually kinda promised) + some standard headphone setting like CMSS-3D over OAL/DS, then we can just get the best portable or even stationary dac/amp for our needs and never look back.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.
> 
> And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series. Uncharted 2 was arguably the best last gen game prior to TLOU.
> 
> ...


 
 Collections are great. I loved picking up some HD collections I missed on the PS2 and even picked up some classics I loved.
 Same thing goes for PS4, but I'll be a bit more picky this time around, probably.
 I'll be sure to get TLoU for PS4 this summer as the first one though, right with Infamous SS :]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good to know TLOU has good surround cues. It's one thing that irked me with Uncharted, as it sounded more processed than normal, with less than stellar soundstaging and positional cues.


----------



## conquerator2

^ I am sure you'll love it along with the 1080p and higher textures re-coat :]


----------



## martin vegas

Watch dogs looks like it has good sound..i have pre ordered it!


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.
> 
> And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series. Uncharted 2 was arguably the best last gen game prior to TLOU.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You'll enjoy TLoU certainly.
  
 Perhaps I came off wrong on a "no" with an Uncharted FHD collection. I'm all for it, just that right now I don't think the Uncharted 4 team (which according to Evan Wells is the majority of the entire studio currently) should be sidetracked with anything else but Uncharted 4.
  
 There aren't many franchises that does well beyond a third entry, so it'd be sad to see Uncharted 4 being a downpoint in the series where Sony can't go back to. Basically, ND and Sony can't screw Uncharted 4 up.
  
 Perhaps when they are close to completion, a few members can take off and work on the collection, that'd be great.
  
  


fegefeuer said:


> I would buy an Uncharted Remaster, no hesitation.
> 
> I agree on the TLOU. Even though I bought it for my sister (my time shall come with the Remaster) I watched her play over my home theatre and once with the Mixamp (putting on the headphones while she played a few minutes) and I agree with ben and conqueror.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Second Son has some pretty good surround cues, I agree with that. The only thing which I found somewhat lacking was that some of the powers lack impact (almost like GTA5 in this sense). It's honestly a little bit underwhelming to me as I came off playing inFamous 1 & 2 just a couple weeks before Second Son releases.


----------



## Stillhart

I have a PS3 and I managed to miss all the ND games.  I've been thinking about getting a PS4 later this year when more than one game is out for it and TLOU is definitely helping me lean in that direction.  An Uncharted collection would be an instant buy for me too.  Mostly, I just want to be on the console that all my friends are on and right now my friends are pretty split between PS4 and Xbone. 
  
 But if PS4 gets the TruAudio going... that will definitely push me over the edge.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> I've watched some videos that demonstrate some of the virtual surround technologies, but I find it very different watching compared to when I'm in control and reacting to the cues. I would like to try them all eventually but at the moment I'm slightly more curious to try DH given its popularity.



This curiousity hit me too, though I started with (discovering that my Yamaha receiver had) Silent Cinema, then THX, then DH2, then SBX (on PC). Silent Cinema and Dolby Headphone sound about as close to each other as THX and SBX. I prefer Creative's approach because it sounds less processed.



grumpy1471 said:


> Also, Mad Lust Envy, do you know if the Recon3D has an actual 3D (up and down as well as all around) output as opposed to the 2D sound that the mixamp outputs (just all around).



Yes, the Recon3D supports OpenAL, which enabled 3D surround, Doppler, environmental reflections, etc. Unfortunately, the day of OpenAL was back around the time of the original Thief game, Bioshock, and a few others, but unfortunately console gaming became so dominant around the time of CoD4 (and OpenAL became Creative soundcard exclusive) that game devs started dropping support for it. The last game I heard of that had it was Borderlands 2, and I think that was sort of an accident because OpenAL support was just a vestigial part of the game engine used. We're currently hoping AMD's integration of TruAudio will revive 3D audio as a cool next-gen feature, and our hope is whipped to a froth since the PS4 has the TruAudio hardware built-into it, but game developers have to (just) add the plug-in to their games.




stillhart said:


> I believe that if you use the Recon with USB from a PC, it can.  If you use it with Optical from a console, it can't.



Yes. But it has to be a part of the game 



mad lust envy said:


> I didn't get a chance to play TLOU really, so I'm going off the Uncharted series which didn't have the best surround emulation.
> 
> And why not a Full HD Collection? It's not like you have to buy it. Also, there are many new PS4 owners who didn't own a PS3, and missed out on an amazing series.



PS4 is my first Playstation! I couldn't stand the previous controller's ergonomics... in fact I still personally wish the underside of the PS4 controller was more fleshed out, perhaps Scuf Gaming will do that for me once they release their PS4 controller mod.


----------



## watsaname

Are you talking about EAX?


----------



## Evshrug

No, EAX and OpenAL are different. EAX is environmental effects like cave-like reverb. I used bad word choice to say "environmental reflection" before. I discovered all this after both techs were basically extinct/endangered, so I'm not a master of it, but FWIR EAX is just "You're in a cave? Sound echos like you were in a cave. You're in a carpet store? It sounds like that environment," while OpenAL was more complex about figuring out where the sound was coming from and what it would have to do to get to each ear.


----------



## nickie

Followed your giude and bought the AD700 + Turtle Beach DSS2 with Bassboost. The sound coming out of this combo is just bloody insane.
 The DSS2 really help the AD700 to fill in a lot of weight to the sound.


----------



## NamelessPFG

EAX needs to be accessed through OpenAL or DirectSound3D, but EAX itself is NOT OpenAL or DirectSound3D, which are primarily APIs to facilitate the placement of sounds in 3D space.
  
 OpenAL doesn't even need the proprietary EAX, really; it's been displaced by the newer EFX, which tends to be supported on non-Creative OpenAL renderers like Rapture3D.
  
 All of that said, while both the old DS3D/OAL APIs and AMD's new TrueAudio API were generally designed with hardware DSPs in mind, the fundamental approach appears to be quite different.
  
 DS3D and OAL appear to be about letting the game engine talk directly to the audio device driver in terms of where sounds are located in 3D space, and then the audio device driver determines what to do with those sounds from there, how they should be mixed and played.
  
 TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution for sound mixing within the game engine ala FMOD Ex and Wwise, which could allow more consistency and flexibility on the developer's part. However, this means that developers do have to know what they're doing when it comes to mixing audio properly for headphones (something that AstoundSound and similar plugins are supposed to resolve), and if there's no CPU fallback with the same quality, even if it takes up a ton of CPU cycles, this could cause some undesirable vendor lock-in to truly max out a game.
  
 All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

napalmhardcore said:


> I seem to vaguely remember reading a discussion about how Creative used to have a particular kind of sound technology that was abandoned. I remember the guy was basically saying that he thought Creative isn't as good as they used to be. This sound tech apparently even simulated the Doppler effect.


 
 It must have been open AL the guy was talking about. He seemed pretty annoyed that game audio had taken, what he considered to be, a huge step backwards.


----------



## martin vegas

Originally posted by Evshrug.. PS4 is my first Playstation! I couldn't stand the previous controller's ergonomics... in fact I still personally wish the underside of the PS4 controller was more fleshed out, perhaps Scuf Gaming will do that for me once they release their PS4 controller mod.   I don't like the analogue sticks that much(a tiny bit too long and a bit rubbery)..really i should say that I preferred the ones on the xbox 360 controller..i have crouched down by mistake a few times on battlefield 4..but that's what my gaming pc is for so I am not that bothered,.any other game that i have played they seem to be ok!


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> TrueAudio appears to be more of a CPU alternative solution...
> 
> All of that said, it's probably better that we take this discussion over to my guide thread, since Mad Lust Envy's always been more console-centric.



Probably better on your thread, except that now that you said it here, people are going to get the wrong impression.

TrueAudio, as we're talking about it as only available on AMD hardware in a few of their graphics cards and the PS4, requires dedicated Tensilica audio processors (hardware) to process the surround, so it IS "locked" to AMD hardware and it DOES NOT take away CPU resources, just like the Creative hardware processors on X-Fi PCI cards and SoundCore3D sound cards.

I'm not as well read up on DS3D and OpenAL vs FMOD Ex and Wwise, and I recommend anyone curious to go research more in-depth, but I suspect they all get the data about "where a sound originates in 3D space" before creating a stereo or surround mix since TrueAudio/AstoundSound documents distinctly show (by block diagram) that the processing is performed before separating into output channels.

_(Dolby headphone is processed after a 5.1 channel Dolby Digital Live mix, as far as a console is concerned the audio processing is already "done" by the time it gets piped out through optical or HDMI)_


----------



## autoteleology

mad lust envy said:


> Dude, if you game on PC, don't use the Mixamp. AT cheapest, get a Xonar U3. If you have an optical dac (cheapest being a Fiio D03k), you can completely bypass the Xonar's amp and dac, and just send the Dolby Headphone signal to your own amp/dac. I have one, and I send the signal to my Fiio E17 amp/dac (which has an optical input). Sounds great, and the U3 is hella cheap.
> 
> It's not worth spending more on a better pc device, since you only need it to send the signal to your own amp/dac. U3 is a perfect choice.
> 
> I really need to add it to my guide.


 
  
 How does one do this?


----------



## mmencius

Hi everyone,
  
 After reading some posts and asking some of my own questions and getting very useful answers, I think I'm going to make my first foray into DH audio cheaply at first, with a DSS 1 amp and a Superlux HD668b, and then upgrade later to a K612,K712,Q701,X1, or… ???
  
 Questions: 1. why is a Mixamp so much more expensive than a DSS 1? Is it superior audio, or is it the ability to handle voice audio well? I do not care about in game chat at all. Mixamp is like at least $105 used, DSS 1 is $30, DSS 2 is like $65.
  
 2. MLE quoted a 1/8 rule for impedance. The Superlux HD668b is 56 ohms (while the identical Samson SR850 is 32 ohms, what's with that?) so does that mean the DSS 1 amp, whose impedance *I cannot find online* but is probably more than 10 ohms, would be unsuitable?
  
 3. I want to start budget. So…. HD668b, SR850, or EVO 681?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> How does one do this?




The Xonar software has options that you can set. You can tell the U3 to send out an untouched Dolby Digital signal, a PCM stereo signal, or a signal laced with Dolby headphone (basically enabling PCM and clicking on the Dolby headphone button (making sure you choose DH-2, NEVER DH-3.)

Since optical is all digital, there is no processing done with the U3's internal dac or amp, allowing you to decode the signal with your own amp/dac. Trust me, it's great. I wish console devices could do this. Helps that the U3 is sooooo cheap.


----------



## Change is Good

Some SRH1540s are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.

Edit: have you guys read the HP100 review on the front page? Y'all sleepin' on SoundMAGIC...


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Probably better on your thread, except that now that you said it here, people are going to get the wrong impression.
> 
> TrueAudio, as we're talking about it as only available on AMD hardware in a few of their graphics cards and the PS4, requires dedicated Tensilica audio processors (hardware) to process the surround, so it IS "locked" to AMD hardware and it DOES NOT take away CPU resources, just like the Creative hardware processors on X-Fi PCI cards and SoundCore3D sound cards.
> 
> ...



Let me clarify that statement on TrueAudio: when I said it was a "CPU-alternative approach", I meant it in much the same fashion as how DirectSound3D had a very crappy software renderer with hardware acceleration on sound card DSPs of the era. No sound card, no effects.

But that approach was a bit more dependent on the sound card's audio processing capabilities, especially with Aureal and Creative pitching A3D and EAX respectively. TrueAudio should allow more flexibility for the developer WHILE offloading the audio processing from the CPU.

I'd just want to see better software rendering fallbacks for AstoundSound and other TrueAudio-enabled middleware plugins, that's all. NVIDIA users probably wouldn't like being left out of TrueAudio-only features the same way AMD users don't like being left out of CUDA and PhysX-exclusive effects, and I'm expecting that with modern programming tools, they can effectively write once and just compile for each target platform.

By the way, your final paragraph in parentheses was perfect in conveying why we can't just get proper 3D audio in existing console games. It's already mixed and processed for speakers at that point, and no external surround processor is going to make more out of it than what's there.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Some *SRH1540s* are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.


 
  
 Looks like these just got reviewed at innerfidelity, too...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That graph looks remarkably similar to the X1s... intredasting. Too bad the 1540 is so expensive. Looks like an ideal closed headphone otherwise.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> That graph looks remarkably similar to the X1s... intredasting. Too bad the 1540 is so expensive. *Looks like an ideal closed headphone otherwise*.


 
  
 I checked my receipt the other day, and I noticed I've had them for 6 months...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't doubt it. Seriously, if I didn't already have 3 other closed headphones... the 1540 would've probably made it to my hands. That graph is basically the X1 with more sub bass. Not sure how the mid bass would affect my sensitive ears though. it is a pretty large bump, and the X1 was fatiguing to me in that aspect.

But dem Alcantaras... soooo comfortable.


----------



## Evshrug

Nameless, I also wish TrueAudio was a stand-alone thing or also available to NVIDIA users (like me).
The PS4 may be the only platform with both PhysX and TrueAudio... But maybe it'll set enough of a precedent and demand for what we gamers, who also appreciate audio, all would like to have.


----------



## benbenkr

mmencius said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> After reading some posts and asking some of my own questions and getting very useful answers, I think I'm going to make my first foray into DH audio cheaply at first, with a DSS 1 amp and a Superlux HD668b, and then upgrade later to a K612,K712,Q701,X1, or… ???
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. Because, brand. Astro products are never cheap. Obviously, the Mixamp comes with the addition of using a mic, the DSS/DSS2 doesn't have that ability. The Mixamp also amps better than the DSS. Part of the reason why the DSS is so cheap because it's already discontinued. What you find on eBay may not even be "new", despite sellers saying it is.
  
 2. Omg. Not the impedance thing again. It's not a big deal and the HD668b aren't sensitive headphones to begin with. It sounded fine to me on the DSS.
  
 3. HD668b and SR850 are basically the same headphones with different branding/colors. I personally like the EVO 681 more as I found the 668b to be too bright for my liking, there isn't a huge significant difference between them though.
  
  


change is good said:


> Some SRH1540s are being sold in the classifieds... for a good price, too... though that was their Black Friday price from a few places in November.
> 
> Edit: *have you guys read the HP100 review on the front page? Y'all sleepin' on SoundMAGIC...*


 
  
 Man, SoundMagic has been making some great cheap products for a while. Still using their E10 IEM, you will not believe how good it sounds for $30.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> That graph looks remarkably similar to the X1s... intredasting. *Too bad the 1540 is so expensive*. Looks like an ideal closed headphone otherwise.


 
  
 Too bad at that price, I'd rather jump on the HE-560.
  
  


evshrug said:


> Nameless, I also wish TrueAudio was a stand-alone thing or also available to NVIDIA users (like me).
> The PS4 may be the only platform with both PhysX and TrueAudio... But maybe it'll set enough of a precedent and demand for what we gamers, who also appreciate audio, all would like to have.


 
  
 Perhaps if AMD and Nvidia could shake hands (pfft never!)... you know, like Nvidia offering PhysX to AMD in a proper situation and AMD could do the same for TrueAudio? This rift isn't helping gamers to be honest.


----------



## tmaxx123

I got around to testing the mixamp pro + e12 amp + mmx-300, and must say it is a glorious combo. Not a night and day difference, but enough to make me not want to play without the e12. The soundstage seems extended out ALOT further, and the lows hit harder.  I dont think sound from a gaming headset can get much better.
  
 Just ordered a pair of  brand new ath-a900x's for 75 bucks, and ill let everyone shortly how they compare to the mmx-300's. 
  
 My thought process is that if the ath-a900x's are better then the mmx's, then I will get the new Audio Technica ATH-AG1 Gaming headset right when it comes out in the US. Otherwise i am sticking with the beyerdynamics.  I will report back!


----------



## benbenkr

Isn't the MMX300 a DT770 with a mic? Most Beyerdynamics always benefit from an amp.


----------



## Stillhart

benbenkr said:


> Isn't the MMX300 a DT770 with a mic? Most Beyerdynamics always benefit from an amp.




60% of the time, it works every time....: http://youtu.be/pjvQFtlNQ-M


----------



## Naingolann

benbenkr said:


> 1. _Because, brand. Astro products are never cheap. Obviously, the Mixamp comes with the addition of using a mic, the DSS/DSS2 doesn't have that ability_. *The Mixamp also amps better than the DSS.* _Part of the reason why the DSS is so cheap because it's already discontinued. What you find on eBay may not even be "new", despite sellers saying it is._


 
  
 That's debatable. Actually, since the DSS doesn't even have to mix the chat in it should drive most low-mid headphones just fine if not better than the mixamp.


----------



## nickie

+1 
  
 Actually the sound from the DSS is much clearer than the Mixamp due to no interference from the mic channel.
 Tried the DSS once with the DT770 80ohms but it doesnt work out so well but for the AD700 its more than enough.


----------



## tmaxx123

benbenkr said:


> Isn't the MMX300 a DT770 with a mic? Most Beyerdynamics always benefit from an amp.



Yes basically, my a900x should be here Tuesday. Any speculation on which headset will be a better overall headset?


----------



## Evshrug

Well the a900x is not a headset, but otherwise they're both good closed headphones suiting very different tastes.


----------



## tmaxx123

evshrug said:


> Well the a900x is not a headset, but otherwise they're both good closed headphones suiting very different tastes.


 
 haha I made the assumption that the ATH-AG1 = a900x, just without the mic. But both the dt770 and a900x are sold at similar price points, it will be interesting to see which performs/fits better to my liking.


----------



## benbenkr

naingolann said:


> That's debatable. Actually, since the DSS doesn't even have to mix the chat in it should drive most low-mid headphones just fine if not better than the mixamp.


 
  
 Ah yes that's right. But going from just a headphone (one without a mic), the Mixamp does amp better than the DSS.
  
  


nickie said:


> +1
> 
> Actually the sound from the DSS is much clearer than the Mixamp due to no interference from the mic channel.
> Tried the DSS once with the DT770 80ohms but it doesnt work out so well but for the AD700 its more than enough.


 
  
 True.
  
 But if interference is a problem (is it really? it's so minor), then I guess don't use a mic/headset? Problem solved.


----------



## mmencius

nickie said:


> +1
> 
> Actually the sound from the DSS is much clearer than the Mixamp due to no interference from the mic channel.
> Tried the DSS once with the DT770 80ohms but it doesnt work out so well but for the AD700 its more than enough.


 

 Hold on, are you saying the DSS 1 can't even drive 80 ohms?


----------



## mmencius

evshrug said:


> You asked earlier if amps matter to sonic quality, or if they're just for "enough volume." Some headphones require more voltage to be loud enough, but all drivers benefit from having enough current to articulate complex passages or powerful bass sections. Some headphones scale more than others, and IMO should be the first consideration, but an appropriate amp is part of a complete system.
> 
> A Q701 (62 ohm headphone) actually sounds loud enough right off of a Turtle Beach DSS ($30 like new on eBay). And decently wonderful too. But the bass will never quite sound "big" and the treble may distort, causing a sharpness that can get fatiguing after a half hour (ymmv, but I used to play violin too, like... 15 years ago, but I loved it). Add a good neutral-but-capable amp you'll still hear the character of the headphone, but notes flow from the drivers easily. You've heard it on string instruments; if a performer has a firm movement of the now it sounds great, but a novice playing weakly with little control will screech a stradivarius like a dying cat.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So the DSS will give me the Dolby Headphone, the immersion, and will power some headphones (and give the full volume for most), but won't do the full deal for higher impedance headphones? OK I think I'll start with DSS 1 + Superlux. I don't need a portable amp.


----------



## Zombie_X

Yo gents,
  
 Here's my Q701 video I promised a while back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool vid Zombie. I'm assuming you're gonna end up making a AKG guide like your Beyer one.

Though considering how damn similar the AKG 7xx series is to itself (lol), it may be redundant. I mean, the K712 Pro reminds me so much of the Annie, and I'm almost wondering if I had used the newer angled memory foam pads, the differences would've be even more subtle (my Annie had non-angled memory foam pads). Considering how the Annie was basically a Q701 with memory foams, AKG REALLY didn't do much of anything with the K712 Pro, barring some extra sense of space, more treble, and less richness. Still wondering if that difference was mainly just the pads...


----------



## Change is Good

I have really been kickin' ass with my XBA-H3s. Who says there isn't an IEM with a wide enough soundstage for competitive gaming?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Lol at the sneaky edit.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> Lol at the sneaky edit.


 
  
 Yea, I said ass in two straight sentences...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Was looking at IEMs a few days ago. I've got to stop looking at everything people mention because I don't have the money.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> Was looking at IEMs a few days ago. *I've got to stop looking at everything* people mention *because I don't have the money*.


 
  




  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

One day I'll win the lottery, but until that day I am a danger to my self and should be restrained.
  
 (Tried to find a picture to accompany that, but pickings were surprisingly slim for decent straitjacket pics.)


----------



## Sentinus

Hi everybody - I come seeking wisdom.
  
 I've read MLE's guide (thanks for putting the time in dude; it's awesome for 'audio newbs' like me) quite a few times and have used it as a reference over the last few months during my own research. The trouble is, I'm still stuck, so I decided to finally register and put forward my predicaments and some questions in order to get some better insight.
  
 SO. I'm looking for a new headset for online gaming both on my PC and Xbox 360, with the possibility of wanting to use it for the Xbox One / PS4 in the future. This gaming is varied (League of Legends, CS:GO, Halo etc.) and I use Mumble, Teamspeak, Skype etc. for chat so voice is important.
  
 Nothing too unusual so far, but here's the interesting bit: currently I have my relatively new PC (just over a year old now, bless her), sporting the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H motherboard and no sound card. This PC is connected to my Panasonic HDTV (quite a few years old now) via HDMI to my nvidia graphics card and uses the sound drivers that come with it (which all works well and great so no problems here; I listen to my music, watch videos, game single player etc. this way without headphones and it's bliss, so I don't want to change that). When I wish to play online with friends, I plug my Sennheiser PC350s in via USB and it all works pretty swell. However, these are really getting old now (5-10 years) and they're wearing out cosmetically and a little functionally (I swear the mic and a bit of the audio is degrading a little over time now) and they've never been 100% comfortable - they pinch my ears after around 3-4 hours each session. Plus I can't use them on my 360 as they are, so I'm looking to upgrade.
  
 With regards to the upgade, I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube etc. and have been floating around the following possibilities:
  
 1. Philips X1 Fidelio + Mic + some sort of amp/amp+dac combo - this may be rather expensive, and can't grab new pads. Not sure if easy to swap setup considering my situation above.
 2. Sennheiser Game One + amp or use current USB sound card which came with PC350s. Not sure how comfy it'll be considering 350's fit hurts my ears.
 3. Astro A40/50 + mixamp - seems the best all-rounder to me but lacking slightly in audio quality; the A40 is probably better than the A50 audio wise.
 4. Steelseries Siberia Elite - Similar to the Astro with regard to setup, but *a major problem is that nobody has reviewed and compared them to the above - this is a major problem and hassle for people like me looking upgrade yet are unable to get both for testing xD*   I have found however, that the mic quality isn't as good as the above options - but I'm still unsure of the audio quality.
  
 ...and that's about it. I do like having the convenience of simply plugging a USB card in and everything working and sounding well, but I also want comfort and the best sound I can get for my price range (let's say, £300 or so tops for everything, but I may stretch it) as well as able to use it on all platforms. Any guidance would be extremely welcome - and apologies for the long read but detail is everything.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

@Sentinus, Hi.
  
 You seem to be reasonably well informed of your choices. I've not heard mention of anyone here using the Siberia Elites in my time here, but if someone has I'm sure they'll offer an opinion.
  
 One thing you've not really covered is how important virtual surround is to you. If it is important, I'd suggest checking out the videos at the beginning of the guide as well as some of the ones on Youtube which compare some of the technologies available.
  
 Ultimately, it is up to you to make the decision as to what you buy. The people here will be willing to help you, but you have to ask the right questions, such as what kind of sound signature are you looking for? How important is the trade-off between bass and pure positional accuracy etc?
  
 Welcome to Head-fi


----------



## Stillhart

If you want one solution that you can easily swap back and forth with your current PC setup, get a recon3d USB. Its the only surround processor I know that you can use on PC with no sound card or on console.

After that, any headphone and mic combo will work fine. X1 and boonpro is a solid choice as are many others (gameone etc).


----------



## benbenkr

@Sentinus
 There's a reason why no one mentions the Siberia Elite, because at *$200*... no one cares.
  
 Had a brief listen to it and a Superlux Evo 681 is still a better all around heapdhone than the Elite and it's only a quarter of the price. Considering it is a closed headset, the bass is shy. There very little impact to it, when it does it feels slow and hollow. I do not like how the mids are so artifically forward, almost as if it was purposely EQ'd that way and the treble lacks energy, despite being smooth.
  
 The biggest problem? The comfort. The earpads are memory foam IINM, but they just aren't supple enough. My jaws started hurting after 15 minutes, I wouldn't wanna know how numb my jaw would be after an hour. The pleather looks to be of low quality too and something that would tear within a year of usage, though this is a personal assumption.
  
 Nice that the Elite comes with Dolby Headphone, but a Xonar U3 costs $35 so whatever. I did not test the mic, but there are plenty of youtube recordings with the mic and needless to say, they're barely passable.
  
 So there you go, you want a Siberia, then just stick with the v2 and buy a Xonar U3.


----------



## grumpy1471

I found the Audio Technica *ATH-AG1* and *ADG1* as I was scouring the web and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them. Not sure how well they'd perform in surround. Since they are from a good company already and not just a gaming company, I would have no clue how well they stack up against the gaming headsets out there or my Astro A40s.

Edit: Also found the Beyerdynamic *MMX300* and not sure about those either.


----------



## Sentinus

> Originally Posted by *Napalmhardcore* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> One thing you've not really covered is how important virtual surround is to you. If it is important, I'd suggest checking out the videos at the beginning of the guide as well as some of the ones on Youtube which compare some of the technologies available.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks man!
  
 I hear what you're saying, but as I said; I'm an audio newbie...I'm just after something with great sound and works with the setup I described above. Virtual surround is fine as long as it sounds up to par, as for bass and positional accuracy - I'd say a middle ground, but positional accuracy would be a little more important considering their use.
  


stillhart said:


> If you want one solution that you can easily swap back and forth with your current PC setup, get a recon3d USB. Its the only surround processor I know that you can use on PC with no sound card or on console.
> 
> After that, any headphone and mic combo will work fine. X1 and boonpro is a solid choice as are many others (gameone etc).


 
  
 Oh wow that's interesting - I hadn't seen the Recon3D USB before. I'll keep it in mind as it doesn't say anything about the Xbox One, but includes the others.
  


benbenkr said:


> @Sentinus
> There's a reason why no one mentions the Siberia Elite, because at *$200*... no one cares.
> 
> Had a brief listen to it and a Superlux Evo 681 is still a better all around heapdhone than the Elite and it's only a quarter of the price. Considering it is a closed headset, the bass is shy. There very little impact to it, when it does it feels slow and hollow. I do not like how the mids are so artifically forward, almost as if it was purposely EQ'd that way and the treble lacks energy, despite being smooth.
> ...


 
  
 I see! This is what I've been after - when you read reviews online and watch youtube clips, they all give the Elite really good reviews. This is why it's important to have you guys (people in 'the know' audio-wise) review them...I'd be none the wiser otherwise. I wouldn't go for the Siberia's, despite the following they have gathered...compared to the other options they don't seem at the same standard.
  
 I'm still no closer, other than pretty much eliminating the Elites, lol.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

sentinus said:


> I'm still no closer, other than pretty much eliminating the Elites, lol.


 
We now know that positional audio is important, XB1 compatibility must be accounted for and you'd,prefer a neutral sound signature (although, like in my case, it sounds like you haven't the experience to know what kind of sound signature you like). This will help the people here to help you, so you're a little closer 
  
Knowing that positional audio is important means you'll need something with a decent soundstage. This most of the time means an open back headphone (though there are exceptions). I also think that sooner or later you may be interested in a virtual surround processor, but we'll take it one step at a time. That being said, sometimes a device such as a Mixamp will open up the possibilities of what you can connect to (I believe the Mixamp works with all the consoles).
  
From you're previous post I can also tell that a mic is important. Finding a mic solution is one of the biggest reasons I came to be on this thread and your choice in headphone will have a bearing on mic compatibility (some headphones have proprietary connections or non removable cables which affect BoomPro compatibility).
  
 In terms of PC audio, I think most people here will likely recommend a sound card or DAC. The advantage of a sound card is that many include some form of virtual surround, so even if you are not particularly interested in it now, it is there for if you do become interested in future.
  
 I haven't much experience myself but thought I'd impart some of what I've learned in my time here. I'm personally looking to go the X1, Mixamp, Boom Pro route myself. I've had to hold off on pulling the trigger as another financial consideration has cropped up. With the X1 I still have a little doubt in my mind, as ideally, I wanted something with a neutral signature. But being fairly new to all this, I've not owned enough headphones to have found what I like or dislike, so it seems like a chance to broaden my knowledge in that regard. Hope this has helped


----------



## Bleach1508

After a lot of reading and research (and some more reading and some more research) i've decided to buy OG CAL and DSS (1). 
 Thank you all for the help. I'll post my insights after i'll test them out (will take some time).
 Peace


----------



## martin vegas

Elder scrolls online is a extra $14.99 a month on top of your xbox live or psn+!


----------



## conquerator2

^ well that's old news! ;D

Never ever paying that though...


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Elder scrolls online is a extra $14.99 a month on top of your xbox live or psn+!


 
  
 That's one reason why it should be played on PC. Another is the addon system and the fact that it's easier with K/M. You can use a gamepad with it but it's slightly clunky.
  
 If there are any ESO PC gamers, hit me up and we'll party some time.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> That's one reason why it should be played on PC. Another is the addon system and the fact that it's easier with K/M. You can use a gamepad with it but it's slightly clunky.
> 
> If there are any ESO PC gamers, hit me up and we'll party some time.


 

 It costs $180 a year..not worth it!


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> It costs $180 a year..not worth it!


 
  
 I can understand someone not viewing $180/year as worth it. But from my perspective, it's absolutely worth it. For me MMOs prevent me from buying new games as frequently since I'm investing more time into the MMO and not plowing through a game like AC4 or Watch Dogs every month. Also, I adore ESO; I have since October when I received my beta invite. I feel that it's a nice middle ground between being an Elder Scrolls title and mixing in the MMO aspect.


----------



## Murder Mike

martin vegas said:


> It costs $180 a year..not worth it!


 
  
 Well, that's pretty subjective when we're on an audio enthusiast forum where people will spend* A LOT* more money to get that 1% improvement in sound. When I played WoW pretty actively a few years back, I didn't have a ton of money and needed something to keep me entertained most of the time. For ~$12 a month, I got a lot of time and enjoyment out of the game. I didn't buy many other games because that one kept me busy. It was a great bargain IMO. When I look back on that and UO, I know I will probably never get that kind of enjoyment out of a game again. It makes me a bit sad. So even without the cost, the experiences I had are more or less priceless to me. 
  
 I can't speak for ESO (and I'm pretty burned out on MMOs regardless), but I've read some good things about it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility of it being worth it for some people.


----------



## conquerator2

Runescape... Oh how much time I sank into that game...
Well I too stopped a few years back but it was a massive blast!
Maybe one day again ;P


----------



## martin vegas

murder mike said:


> Well, that's pretty subjective when were on an audio enthusiast forum where people will spend* A LOT* more money to get that 1% improvement in sound. When I played WoW pretty actively a few years back, I didn't have a ton of money and needed something to keep me entertained most of the time. For ~$12 a month, I got a lot of time and enjoyment out of the game. I didn't buy many other games because that one kept me busy. It was a great bargain IMO. When I look back on that and UO, I know I will probably never get that kind of enjoyment out of a game again. It makes me a bit sad. So even without the cost, the experiences I had are more or less priceless to me.
> 
> I can't speak for ESO (and I'm pretty burned out on MMOs regardless), but I've read some good things about it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility of it being worth it for some people.


 
 I have pre-ordered watchdogs and will be getting the division..not that bothered about elder scrolls online now..i buy 2 games a month..i just hope they don't do it with fallout 4..i have a gaming pc with two 7990s and 84 inch sony 4k tv and pioneer susano av receiver with 8.2 s81 speakers that i built for playing the battlefield games!


----------



## conquerator2

^ bragging rights! :rolleyes:


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> ^ bragging rights!


 
 I was just answering this part conquerator 2 "Well, that's pretty subjective when were on an audio enthusiast forum where people will spend A LOT more money to get that 1% improvement in sound."


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I was just answering this part conquerator 2 "Well, that's pretty subjective when were on an audio enthusiast forum where people will spend A LOT more money to get that 1% improvement in sound."




So... You spend a lot of money for all electronics then?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> It costs $180 a year..not worth it!



This has been pretty standard pricing for mmo's since EQ and UO and WoW vanilla. Not sure why it would come as a surprise to anyone at this point unless you're like 14. Based on your multi-thousand dollar gaming system, in guessing not...


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> This has been pretty standard pricing for mmo's since EQ and UO and WoW vanilla. Not sure why it would come as a surprise to anyone at this point unless you're like 14. Based on your multi-thousand dollar gaming system, in guessing not...


 

 I don't play mmo's but I played skyrim and elder scrolls..the only online games I play are the battlefield games..and it cost me pounds not dollars stillhart I live in England but have an apartment in manhattan..I am a pioneer dj so I get pioneer stuff pretty much for free!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> I don't play mmo's but I played skyrim and elder scrolls..the only online games I play are the battlefield games..and it cost me pounds not dollars stillhart I live in England but have an apartment in manhattan..I am a pioneer dj so I get pioneer stuff pretty much for free!



Oh I gotcha, I keep forgetting that a lot of non-mmo players are interested in ESO. IMO its a just okay MMO and a just okay elder scrolls game. As a veteran of both, I find ESO kind of disappointing and not worth the money. But that's not because I think the pricing policy is bad... Just the game.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I don't play mmo's but I played skyrim and elder scrolls..the only online games I play are the battlefield games..and it cost me pounds not dollars stillhart I live in England but have an apartment in manhattan..I am a pioneer dj so I get pioneer stuff pretty much for free!




Well, that explains a lot!
Should have said that in the first place


----------



## trahere

grumpy1471 said:


> I found the Audio Technica *ATH-AG1* and *ADG1* as I was scouring the web and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them. Not sure how well they'd perform in surround. Since they are from a good company already and not just a gaming company, I would have no clue how well they stack up against the gaming headsets out there or my Astro A40s.
> 
> Edit: Also found the Beyerdynamic *MMX300* and not sure about those either.


 
 Hello mate. I've got the ATH-ADG1s and more than happy with them. I haven't tried the MMX300s but I have tried A40s and I much prefer the Audio Technicas. I'm a console gamer (PS4) playing Call of Duty and having tried them with Turtle Beach's ACU and Astro's  Mixamp, I would definitely go with the Mixamp.
 The headset itself is comfortable and provides excellent audio cues to the extent you can tell not only the direction but also relative distance.
 For other uses, you're probably better reading up from other people's reviews as I only use them for gaming.


----------



## EliteSpartan03

MLE thanks for putting this guide together.  Helped me narrow down my choice and ended up with the Q701s, schitt amp, and astro 5.8 mixamp.  On the Xbox One I get great sound and actually the mixamp I bought from another user on here included the Astro A30's.  Tried them and compared to the AKG they sound severely lacking.  Never paid too much attention to sound quality in headphones before, but coming from the Turtle Beaches I used before these are a godsend. I'm currently using the xbox one as my main console but I do have a PS4 as well.  Literally none of my friends have a PS4 currently but it would be nice to have things it setup for it.  I can tell a huge difference in battlefield 4 already.  Would everything I have easily be adapted to use with the PS4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the PS4 and Mixamp 5.8, you'll need to buy this, assuming you don't have the ps3 chat cable for the Mixamp 5.8. You connect that from the Mixamp 5.8 controller input to the PS4 controller. Of course, that's if you use a mic.


Oh, about that, I made a huge MISTAKE when I said the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't come with the ps3 chat cable. IF you buy the Mixamp 5.8 _alone_, you don't get the cable, HOWEVER, if you buy the Mixamp 5.8 A30/A40 *bundle*, you DO get the cable. I had completely forgotten that I bought the 5.8 alone, and the A30 with the Mixamp Pro. I apologize for leading others into believe the bundle didn't come with it. I wasn't WRONG, in that the Mixamp 5.8 doesn't have it, but I thought it was the same for all cases.


----------



## Evshrug

I'll keep that cable in mind if my PS3 USB-3.5mm chat cable doesn't work in my system, seems like a much cheaper alternative. I thought we'd be able to use some cable like that.


----------



## Evshrug

Cool thing I discovered about the Recon3D USB today... Not only does it natively support PS4 (USB headset support, so you get game sound from optical and chat audio and mic through USB), but also it functions as a MIC amp...

So, I can plug in my unpowered lapel mic, and with a switch I can select low/medium/high gain. So, I can clip my mic to my shirt and know people can hear me, or I can turn it down if I'm not talking much, I can turn it all the way up and talk in a whisper and people will hear, and I can power unidirectional mics to cut down on fan or LAN noise.

Also, I got my Asus monitor in today, it's quite nice with noticeably lag free input and sharp, colorful output, with two HDMI inputs and a 3.5mm jack for speakers if I feel casual.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I want a Recon 3D with SBX. I just asked them via mail and facebook. EVERYBODY DO THE SAME.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

fegefeuer said:


> I want a Recon 3D with SBX. I just asked them via mail and facebook. EVERYBODY DO THE SAME.


 
 I'm quite interested to see the next generation of audio interfaces from everyone, whether it be Creative, Astro or Turtle Beach. Wonder when we can expect them.
  
 Edit: 100th post! Someone high five me!


----------



## conquerator2

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm quite interested to see the next generation of audio interfaces from everyone, whether it be Creative, Astro or Turtle Beach. Wonder when we can expect them.
> 
> Edit: 100th post! Someone high five me!




Teamwork! "high five"
Yeah!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

conquerator2 said:


> Teamwork! "high five"
> Yeah!


 
 Awesome! *Plays air guitar and stage dives... into the nearest hedge*


----------



## benbenkr

fegefeuer said:


> I want a Recon 3D with SBX. I just asked them via mail and facebook. EVERYBODY DO THE SAME.


 
  
 That dream was shattered when they released the Omni. How I wish the Omni was a replacement for the Recon3D.


----------



## insidius

Hey guys, long time lurker. 
  
 After reading over 300+ pages of this thread, I've finally decided to just ask the experts here specifically about my situation, since I can't find all the answers I'm looking for on my own after days of research.  For reference, I am not an audiophile, but I am discerning about my sound. 
  
  
  
*MY NEEDS:*
  
 -I have a PC and a PS4. 
 -I want good quality sound for both, preferably with one set of cans. 
 -I would _*like*_ to be able to have the cans connected to both devices simultaneously so I won't have to constantly plug/unplug wires all the time (but I am not willing to sacrifice sound quality for this convenience if it causes a loss).
  
  
  
*MY PLAN:*
  
 I've pretty much decided on the *Fidelio X1*'s with the *BoomPro mic *and an *Astro MixAmp 2013*.
  
  
  
*MY QUESTIONS:*
  
 -What would be a good sound card to pair with the X1's for use on the PC? 
 -Should I also use the MixAmp on the PC (with the sound card), or is that overkill?
 -Any other advice/comments about this setup?
  
  
 Thanks guys.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Cool thing I discovered about the Recon3D USB today... Not only does it natively support PS4 (USB headset support, so you get game sound from optical and chat audio and mic through USB), but also it functions as a MIC amp...
> 
> So, I can plug in my unpowered lapel mic, and with a switch I can select low/medium/high gain. So, I can clip my mic to my shirt and know people can hear me, or I can turn it down if I'm not talking much, I can turn it all the way up and talk in a whisper and people will hear, and I can power unidirectional mics to cut down on fan or LAN noise.


 

Any luck on the ps4 monitor? I need one pretty soon..don't want one that bleaches things out.. the LG monitor in the video looks good!


----------



## Evshrug

Two things:
1.) You really can't tell if a monitor is good or not by looking at it through the eyes of a camera, YouTube compression, and then your current model, except...
2.) that LG may have ghosting issues, at 0:07 seconds the camera swooshes around the player and it blurs during this fast action... but that could just be YouTube compression, can't tell.

I added info about the Asus in an edit to my last post. It worked beautifully last night plugged into my PS4, great color no ghosting issues, really very sharp and made 1080p look even better, it has a thin bezel which I like and think will be a boon in the future when I get a twin VESA mount.


----------



## IBeBallin

Hi guys. I decided to join this community to ask for expert advice. I bought the Sennheiser PC 350 SE to use with my PC and gaming consoles. For the PC I have the ASUS Maximus V Formula motherboard which has SupremeFX IV dedicated audio. Specs follow:
  
 SupremeFX IV, built-in 7.1 Channel High Definition
 Audo CODEC
  
 High fidelity headphone amplifier
 Texas Instruments (120dB SNR, -117dB THD+N at VCC+-12V,
 RL=600 Ω, f=1KHz)
  
 SupremeFX Shielding™ Technology
  
 ELNA Premium Audio Capacitors:
 1500 uF Audio Power Capacitor
 Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted): 110dB
 Output THD+N at 1KHz: 95dB
 Supports jack-detection, multi-streaming, front panel jack-retasking
 Blu-ray audio layer content protection
 Optical S/PDIF input and output ports at back panel
  
 Audio Features:
 DTS Ultra PC II
 DTS Connect
  
 I am very happy with how the headsets sound. At 25% volume, the bass was strong and the rest of the audio was nice. I tested with some music and with Battlefield 4 audio. Amazing I had no idea Battlefield could be that much better. Now here is where the problem starts:
  
 I could get the ThunderFX
  
*Performance and Chipset:*
 Output Signal-to-Noise Ratio (A-Weighted): 114dB
 Digital-to-Analog Converter: 120dB SNR, 107dB THD+N (Max. 192kHz/ 24-bit)
 C-Media 6631 audio processor (Max. 192kHz/ 24bit)
 Built-in high fidelity headphone amplifier
 Up to 300 ohms headphone impedance support
*Special Features:*
 Multi-platform Support: PC, Xbox 360, PS3
 Master/ voice/ game volume control independently (PS3, Xbox 360)
 Built-in ENC (Environmental Noise Cancellation) Technology
 GamEQ: 3 preset EQ profiles with graphical audio effect tuning hints
 Xear™ Surround Headphone
 Xear™ SingFX
 FlexBass™, Smart Volume Normalize™
 DS3D GX 1.0, OpenAL
*I/O Ports:*
 2x RCA audio input
 1x USB 2.0 connector
 1x 3.5mm headphone jack
 1x 3.5mm microphone jack
 1x 2.5mm microphone jack for Xbox 360 voice input
*Dimensions: *
 191 x 137.5 x 37mm (LxWxH)
  
 BUT, the only way to get one would be to call a supervisor at ASUS and MAYBE they will give me one, since it is not sold separately (it's price should be around 100$). OR, I can buy something else, DSS, MixAmp or something else. I am not looking at spending a fortune, max 150$ and it needs to be compatible with both Xbox 360 and PS3 chat and audio (Xbox One and ps4 would be a bonus).
  
 So what to get? From what I've seen, Mixamp pro 2013 sucks for the mic volume (unless they fixed that with a firmware update), Mixamp pro 2011 is very hard to find in Canada, and I do not want the wireless one. DSS VS DSS2  VS MixAmp I have no idea of the difference.
  
 Suggestions?


----------



## Evshrug

Well IBB,
I don't know much beyond basics about computer audio... Is that Thunder FX part of a motherboard, or is an add-on (normally bundled with something else)?

Anyway, the motherboard you have is basically equivalent to the audio quality of a Mixamp, except it doesn't have processing for headphone surround.

The best console + PC audio processor/soundcard I've found so far is Creative's Recon3D USB. It can actually decode surround audio from consoles, and make headphone surround for that, while also being an "external soundcard" when connected to a PC via USB.

My gigabyte motherboard is able to power USB even while I have the PC shutdown, so I could just leave it plugged into console and PC at the same time and switch inputs with a side switch. Sometimes I needed to "reboot" the Recon3D though.

Supports PS3 & PS4 chat through USB too, though you can also plug controller chat audio into the Recon3D's extension cable (Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4).


----------



## IBeBallin

Well I can't upload images or post links..... ThunderFX is an external audio card/amplifier and you can connect the xbox 360 and ps3 to it as well.
  
ThunderFX







*Versatile Gaming Audio for PC&Consoles*
 The ThunderFX gives gamers more than just another PC soundcard; this versatile device provides premium gaming audio and connectivity for your favorite PC headphones on any PC, laptop or console. Get a competitive advantage from Environmental Noise Cancellation (ENC) technology and GamEQ sound profiles with clear visual identifiers, while the 300 ohm headphone amplification and premium Nichicon FG Series capacitors for pure, powerful audio. The ThunderFX is a supreme sound accessory that your console gaming, LAN gaming and entertainment enjoyment requires.


----------



## IBeBallin

ThunderFX is a external sound card/amplifier. You can connect the xbox 360 as well as a ps3. That Recon thing you posted costs 150$ in Canada without taxes lol what a rip-off.


----------



## conquerator2

I am not sure you want something that has built in noise cancelation. Unless you can switch it off 
On paper, the device seems good.
Depends if you like the provided headphone surround technology.


----------



## IBeBallin

Well if I can't get the ThunderFX, what alternative would be best?


----------



## Change is Good

IBe, you may want to site that ThunderFX source to your post.


----------



## IBeBallin

http://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/MAXIMUS_V_FORMULATHUNDERFX/


----------



## IBeBallin

change is good said:


> IBe, you may want to site that ThunderFX source to your post.


 

 It won't let me put links. It's on the Asus site, search for Maximus V Formula/ThunderFX combo


----------



## Evshrug

ibeballin said:


> ThunderFX is a external sound card/amplifier. You can connect the xbox 360 as well as a ps3. That Recon thing you posted costs 150$ in Canada without taxes lol what a rip-off.




That thunderFX looks interesting to me, but this is the first time I'm hearing about it. We here have been hoping for better devices, but the recon3D is about par price for similar devices in the US.
http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-recon3d

I would make sure that the thunderFX can process headphone surround (like directional, not just "a feeling of space"), and make doubly sure it can decode Dolby Digital Live 5.1 audio from an optical input (consoles). Usually soundcards CANNOT decode a "true" 5.1 or 7.1 surround signal from a console (the Recon3D USB was an exception) because of licensing and copyright protection issues.

Just be sure what you're getting before dropping the Canadian Dollars on it.


Edit: the Thunder FX only has analogue (and USB) audio inputs, so it could not process surround from a console (just "enhanced" surround, not the same thing as Dolby Headphone or THX TrueStudio Pro).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Eeeewwwww, forget about the ThunderFX.
  
 http://rog.asus.com/131532012/maximus-motherboards/what-is-the-thunderfx/


----------



## IBeBallin

evshrug said:


> That thunderFX looks interesting to me, but this is the first time I'm hearing about it. We here have been hoping for better devices, but the recon3D is about par price for similar devices in the US.
> 
> I would make sure that the thunderFX can process headphone surround (like directional, not just "a feeling of space"), and make doubly sure it can decode Dolby Digital Live 5.1 audio from an optical input (consoles). Usually soundcards CANNOT decode a "true" 5.1 or 7.1 surround signal from a console (the Recon3D USB was an exception) because of licensing and copyright protection issues.
> 
> ...


 

 You are using alien language to me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. All I understood is 5.1 and 7.1. I know the word analog but I have no idea how it works. You mean that the consoles have 5.1 audio? Does that not depend on the game and how the audio was coded? Or is all audio for all games on consoles the same? And how is that helping me since my headphones are stereo? Would that not be "fake" 5.1 or 7.1 from the consoles through my headset?
  
 So forget the ThunderFX and get the Recon usb thingy? How does it compare to the 3 mixamp versions and the 2 dss?


----------



## IBeBallin

fegefeuer said:


> Eeeewwwww, forget about the ThunderFX.
> 
> http://rog.asus.com/131532012/maximus-motherboards/what-is-the-thunderfx/


 





 so forget the ThunderFX and get either the Recon usb, one of the 2 dss or one of the 3 mixamp?


----------



## Evshrug

ibeballin said:


> You are using alien language to me :tongue_smile: . All I understood is 5.1 and 7.1. I know the word analog but I have no idea how it works. You mean that the consoles have 5.1 audio? Does that not depend on the game and how the audio was coded? Or is all audio for all games on consoles the same? And how is that helping me since my headphones are stereo? Would that not be "fake" 5.1 or 7.1 from the consoles through my headset?
> 
> So forget the ThunderFX and get the Recon usb thingy? How does it compare to the 3 mixamp versions and the 2 dss?




The whole topic of this thread is virtual surround for stereo headphones, and headphones that work well with that audio processing. Rather than retype an explanation again (already have 100s of times in the past), I'll point out that Mad explained it in the first post of this guide thread, and that I explained it in more detail in my "If I knew then..." thread linked in my signature.

We get the same questions often about comparing those processors you mentioned, so I'm making a video comparing them and their setups, which I will post after I get my Mixamp returned around the 23rd.


----------



## IBeBallin

evshrug said:


> The whole topic of this thread is virtual surround for stereo headphones, and headphones that work well with that audio processing. Rather than retype an explanation again (already have 100s of times in the past), I'll point out that Mad explained it in the first post of this guide thread, and that I explained it in more detail in my "If I knew then..." thread linked in my signature.
> 
> We get the same questions often about comparing those processors you mentioned, so I'm making a video comparing them and their setups, which I will post after I get my Mixamp returned around the 23rd.


 
  
 I'd like to thank you in advance, on behalf of everyone, for taking the time to do that video. I am sure many of us who have no knowledge on audio will benefit from that video the most. If I may, please do not forget to also compare how good the mic works on those devices, as I've read that the new MixAmp pro 2013 combines the chat with the audio, so the result is worse audio and chat strength (maybe that was solved with firmware updates idk, I guess you will find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). Also, I finish my finals on the 25th and I have 15 days of vacation, so I'll be sure to watch that video and make an informed purchase decision 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## conquerator2

Those videos will be good even for us who know a thing or two.
I'll be looking forward to them too


----------



## Stillhart

Oh great, now he's actually got to DO it!


----------



## Evshrug

ibeballin said:


> I'd like to thank you in advance, on behalf of everyone, for taking the time to do that video. I am sure many of us who have no knowledge on audio will benefit from that video the most. If I may, please do not forget to also compare how good the mic works on those devices, as I've read that the new MixAmp pro 2013 combines the chat with the audio, so the result is worse audio and chat strength (maybe that was solved with firmware updates idk, I guess you will find out  ). Also, I finish my finals on the 25th and I have 15 days of vacation, so I'll be sure to watch that video and make an informed purchase decision  .



I don't have a Mixamp 2013... I have one of the Mixamp 5.8 (the "wireless" version, mostly the same functions just has the wireless bit.

Also, I use a lapel mic, a cheap but good thing that I got in a 3 pack for $4.50 shipped (US$) from Amazon. You guys will see any adapters I use (or don't use).



conquerator2 said:


> Those videos will be good even for us who know a thing or two.
> I'll be looking forward to them too







stillhart said:


> Oh great, now he's actually got to DO it!




IKR?
The main purpose is to show how various processing devices could be set up... some people can't picture it or understand what each link in the chain does. And then I was gonna add a short blurb about what the major pro/con of each device is.

Hope I don't get made fun of for having a bunch of devices that essentially do the same thing (minor feature differences).


----------



## Change is Good

Someone needs to grab this K612 from the Amazon warehouse for $149... like... for real, for real...
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DCXZY1W


----------



## Stillhart

I listened to a CAL2 today at the airport.  I was pretty impressed by the sound, especially given the price.  A really good amount of bass without being overbearing or in-your-face about it, mids that were present alongside all that bass and highs that were decently detailed.  The two major negative things I noticed:  lots of outside sound leaking in and I couldn't get enough volume from my Nexus 4 (not sure if this is a problem with my phone or the cans).
  
 It's no X1 or Q701, obviously, but if the CAL1 sounds the same as the CAL2, $75 is a steal.


----------



## insidius

Can anyone help? I'm holding off on purchasing anything until I hear from you guys


----------



## Change is Good

insidius said:


> Hey guys, long time lurker.
> 
> After reading over 300+ pages of this thread, I've finally decided to just ask the experts here specifically about my situation, since I can't find all the answers I'm looking for on my own after days of research.  For reference, I am not an audiophile, but I am discerning about my sound.
> 
> ...


 
  


insidius said:


> Can anyone help? I'm holding off on purchasing anything until I hear from you guys


 
  
 Kill two birds with one stone. Get a Recon 3D USB, compatible with consoles and PC...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you want to have both connected without having to swap the optical cable here and there, then yes, the Recon 3D USB is the one to get.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey Mad,
  
 are you getting a HE-560 to review?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, nope. I wish, though I can't afford to ship them back. Money is hella tight.


----------



## Change is Good

There's an MA900 in the classifieds for a nice price, guys.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> There's an MA900 in the classifieds for a nice price, guys.


 
  
 Nope, not gonna do it. Some classy gentleman sold his M500s and they're quite lovely.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> There's an MA900 in the classifieds for a nice price, guys.


 

 So tempting...


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Nope, not gonna do it. Some classy gentleman sold his M500s and they're quite lovely.


 
  
 Wierd... some classy guy bought my M500 and I used the funds to get a Momentum On-Ear! He loves them, also, and I'm happy with my purchase!
  
 It's a small world after all...


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

if you double post again, I'm gonna steal your K612...

























h34r:


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> if you double post again, I'm gonna steal your K612...


 
  
 Then, I'll be at your door with three more headphones to review....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh god, anything but that. HAHAHA. I needz a breakz!


----------



## AxelCloris

I'll mail Change some of mine to add to that list as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You sadists!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I'll mail Change some of mine to add to that list as well.


 
  
 SRH1540
 Momentum On-Ear
 T1
 Fidelio L2
 M500
 Crossfade M80
 Crossfade XS
  
 Yea... just try us, Mad...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dear god... NOOOOO.

I think I have to start choosing headphones to review based on how current they are, or by what I feel people are most likely to buy.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> SRH1540
> Momentum On-Ear
> T1
> Fidelio L2
> ...



Also Crossfade M-100. That thread has like 2x the posts as this one.


----------



## AxelCloris

Philips Fidelio L2. You can't even buy them in America yet. Hipster-phones.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Philips Fidelio L2. You can't even buy them in America yet. Hipster-phones.


 
  
 And they work with the BoomPro...


----------



## Evshrug

You know what else works with the Boom Pro?


Just finished Leon's campaign with my buddy! Good times, tho unintentionally funny sometimes too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My reviews of the K712 and K612 are done. I'll post them here first.

Guys, KEEP IN MIND, that I WILL be altering some scores of past reviews, to reflect some changes (I won't be handing out 9s as much, as I feel it should be reserved for the very best). Yes, the K702 Annie scores higher AT THE MOMENT. I will be updating the scores very soon.

edit: Move to the next page, alongside the K612 review.


----------



## Stillhart

Pretty high praise!  Now I'm seriously going to have to consider getting those Annie/712 pads for my Q...
  
 I find it interesting that you described the X1's bass a "sluggish and boomy" because that was the main reason I decided not to keep them. If the K712 has the tight controlled bass of the Q701, just more of it, it sounds like an amazing choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stupid double post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dangit, you caught me mid edit. Lol. I don't see my errors until AFTER I post it, then I go on an editing spree, lol.

Ironic you mention that comparison, as I LITERALLY just wrote it in last minute (as in about 5 minutes before posting it). I figured people would be quite interested in that comparison, which I somehow completely forgot to consider until now.


edit: Added to this post, to have both reviews on one page.




> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well written.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks Feg. 

I've racked my brain trying to come up with the scoring, but i feel I've scored them properly. Now, I have to go back and re-score many other headphones, since I feel I've been a bit generous (and sometimes harsh) with the scores. Not that it makes the headphones worse, but that my scoring didn't line up.

This is why I say not to pay too much attention to scores, but to actually read the reviews to get a much better idea as to how I see a particular headphone.


----------



## pervysage

Anyone know of a good male 3.5mm to female 1/4 cable adapter? (for hooking up a headphone with 1/4 plug to the Astro Mixamp which has a 3.5mm connector).
  
 It should be cheap but good quality... not looking to spend hundreds of dollars on a little piece of cable lol. I want to go with a very short cable version over the hard adapters to reduce strain on the 3.5mm port.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get a Grado one or a Sennheiser one. I believe both are sold on Amazon. I have the Grado one. It's excellent.


----------



## jaysins

Great review of the K712 Pro and the K612 Pro. I have always used IEM's  and close headphones and the K712 will be my first open ones. I'm even more excited now that I've read your review and cannot wait till they arrive!


----------



## AxelCloris

Another vote here for the Grado 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter. I've owned both the Sennheiser and Grado adapters and I find that the Grado is just as good as the Senn for the price. I paid $10 less on Amazon over the Senn model.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey MLE, if I could make a suggestion?  I'd love to see the top 10 lists updated with the new headphones you've reviewed (as well as possibly noting which are discontinued and which price ranges the headphones fall into).  I used those lists a lot when making my decision and there was a lot of cruft to sort through.
  
 I'm definitely curious to see an updated list with the K712 and K612 to see where you rate them relatively speaking.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Get a Grado one or a Sennheiser one. I believe both are sold on Amazon. I have the Grado one. It's excellent.


 
  
 Agree. I use it for the TH-900 and the Mixamp and it works flawless.


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart,
I'd wager that the K612 fills the void left by the MA900's price escalation, and the K712 is basically right with the limited-edition Annies as a top-choice for an all-arounder, especially since Zombie_X is pretty much ready to sell AKG adapters to allow the use of the BoomPro cable.

The only thing about the K712... It's at least like $130 more than the Q701, new. The sound is more refined and also easier on the ears, but by itself the change is too slight to justify the price difference from a Q701. For me, it's a keeper though due to the headband, comfort, I like the coiled cable to keep tidy at shorter distances, less fatigue when plugged straight into underpowered devices (iPhone, Mixamp) – it adds up, maybe a bit less than the price still BUT it saves me from having to mod and get amp-picky. It's the best AKG in my opinion, but won't change the world for Q701 owners.

How's that M-Stage treating ya?


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I'd wager that the K612 fills the void left by the MA900's price escalation, and the K712 is basically right with the limited-edition Annies as a top-choice for an all-arounder, especially since Zombie_X is pretty much ready to sell AKG adapters to allow the use of the BoomPro cable.
> 
> The only thing about the K712... It's at least like $130 more than the Q701, new. The sound is more refined and also easier on the ears, but by itself the change is too slight to justify the price difference from a Q701. For me, it's a keeper though due to the headband, comfort, I like the coiled cable to keep tidy at shorter distances, less fatigue when plugged straight into underpowered devices (iPhone, Mixamp) – it adds up, maybe a bit less than the price still BUT it saves me from having to mod and get amp-picky. It's the best AKG in my opinion, but won't change the world for Q701 owners.
> 
> *How's that M-Stage treating ya?*


 
 Who's that aimed at?
 Does MLE have one?


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Who's that aimed at?
> Does MLE have one?




I believe he was replying to stillhart's comment, whom just bought my M-Stage a short while ago.


----------



## conquerator2

Makes sense  Thought I was one of the last guys -_-


----------



## kh600rr

Hey peeps, was wondering if there was anything,I could do to improve, my SQ, with my games. I play all the regulars, BF,COD, Borderlands -2. Now, don't call me a idiot, but I mostly use, HD-800, hooked to a AK-240, or a Nuforce icon HDP. Also , use IE-800. Overkill, I know. Is there any software, that could boost, my imagining. Or placement, of game sound? Or maybe, this isn't a good gaming setup. I run a Sager Laptop. Thanks Guys.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> How's that M-Stage treating ya?


 
  
 Well I was out of town from Friday through Tuesday so I haven't had a ton of time with it yet.  I will tell you one thing though:  every single night I've been home since I had it, I haven't touched a video game.  I've spent all evening listening to music while ripping my old CD's to FLAC.  Well worth the money with the Q701, it really cranked up the sound a notch.  I'm extremely happy with my current music setup!
  
 I'm still trying to get my Xbox audio setup dialed in though.  I'm having issues with the damn thing automatically deciding when to put my chat audio through the controller vs speakers.  I still can't figure out why it's not an OPTION on the Xbone when it was on the 360.  It's really starting to piss me off.  I want to run my Recon through my AVR to amp the sound and then just plug my mic right into the controller, but if I do that, the Xbox puts my chat audio through the controller too.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I may have to cave and buy a E09/11/12 for the Xbox setup.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Beyond that, I bought a  Sansa Clip Zip from BB on sale for $20 and Rockboxed it.  Now I'm looking for a nice set of portables.  Leaning towards the AKG K545 right now since I want an over-ear.


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart,
That's Good news!
I haven't been streaming much cuz I've been playing Co-op with my roommate on the 360.
I'm surprised at the step back on the XBone, but then again... not really. I also don't know why buying a FiiO would solve your chat problems? And is it too hard to relocate your M-Stage between the TV and your listening area?




conquerator2 said:


> Who's that aimed at?
> Does MLE have one?



Stillie, sorry not you, HOWEVER I publicly posted those thoughts because I suspect many would like to get an idea of ranking hierarchy. So... sorta for you too?





kh600rr said:


> Hey peeps, was wondering if there was anything,I could do to improve, my SQ, with my games. I play all the regulars, BF,COD, Borderlands -2. Now, don't call me a idiot, but I mostly use, HD-800, hooked to a AK-240, or a Nuforce icon HDP. Also , use IE-800. Overkill, I know. Is there any software, that could boost, my imagining. Or placement, of game sound? Or maybe, this isn't a good gaming setup. I run a Sager Laptop. Thanks Guys.



Honestly you have a better setup than me, lol! However, nothing in that setup (AFAIK, I know nothing about Sager and their features) processes virtual surround for headphones.

I assume you are a PC gamer from your DAC selection? If one of your DACs have optical input, you could actually get a cheap device to do the processing (which is the same processing through any product range) and digitally output the processed stereo to your high-end equipment unmolested by cheap analogue conversion. The two models I most recommend for that with optical-out would be an Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Stillhart,
> That's Good news!
> I haven't been streaming much cuz I've been playing Co-op with my roommate on the 360.
> I'm surprised at the step back on the XBone, but then again... not really. I also don't know why buying a FiiO would solve your chat problems? And is it too hard to relocate your M-Stage between the TV and your listening area?


 
 The Fiio would solve my chat problems because I'd use it to amp the Recon (rather than my AVR) and just continue to use the extension cable thingy that came with the Recon, which seems to work well consistently.  Most of the issue I've had were when I tried to bypass the ribbon cable.  I will need to do more testing, as I had a new idea about using a 4-pole Y cable with just the mic hooked up to see if that solves the issue.
  
 As to moving the M-stage, yeah too much of a PITA.  It's big and heavy and uses a big power cable and RCA inputs and swapping that back and forth makes my lazy-bone hurt.  I'd rather spend $40 on a used E11 and forget about it.
  
 At the end of the day, I really want to keep the amount of cable clutter and confusion in front of my TV to a minimum.  I have a 1.5-year-old running around the house; I've got him well trained to stay away from the AV equipment but a rats nest of cables in front of the TV could prove to be too tempting.  Also, want to avoid wife aggro.  :-D
  
 Maybe if you ever get that 5.8 back I'll bug you to borrow it and see if that helps...


----------



## Murder Mike

evshrug said:


> The two models I most recommend for that with optical-out would be an Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.


 
  
Additionally, any sound card with the surround processing you want and an optical line out will work too. The X-fi Titanium, Xonar DG/DGX, and Sound Blaster Z would be the most recommended for that. 
  
 Missed the part where he said it was for a laptop.


----------



## kh600rr

evshrug said:


> Stillhart,
> That's Good news!
> I haven't been streaming much cuz I've been playing Co-op with my roommate on the 360.
> I'm surprised at the step back on the XBone, but then again... not really. I also don't know why buying a FiiO would solve your chat problems? And is it too hard to relocate your M-Stage between the TV and your listening area?
> ...



Thanks, I do have optical out , and sometimes use it. I'll take a look at what you recommend.


----------



## grumpy1471

Alrighty guys,

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Fidelio X1 (pun intended since this is a gaming guide). I will order them along with a Boom Pro and hopefully I will get them soon. Should I even bother considering the K712? The inconvenience of not being able to use the Boom Pro seems like a deal breaker for me but I just want to make sure.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Alrighty guys,
> 
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Fidelio X1 (pun intended since this is a gaming guide). I will order them along with a Boom Pro and hopefully I will get them soon. Should I even bother considering the K712? The inconvenience of not being able to use the Boom Pro seems like a deal breaker for me but I just want to make sure.




Honestly, the K712 is the best all-rounder in the whole guide... even if it costs a bit more.

As for the BoomPro... our good friend, Zombie_X, is making some adaptors for using it with the AKGs and will be for sale soon.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Alrighty guys,
> 
> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the Fidelio X1 (pun intended since this is a gaming guide). I will order them along with a Boom Pro and hopefully I will get them soon. Should I even bother considering the K712? The inconvenience of not being able to use the Boom Pro seems like a deal breaker for me but I just want to make sure.


 
 Should you do it?  Well that's on you to decide.  But I don't think the convenience factor of the Boompro should be factored very highly.  They're really expensive and don't save that much hassle.  Those cheap clip-on mics cost like $5 for three of em and they sound fine.
  
 EDIT - Right and the Zombie_X adaptor will be coming soon.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I'd rather spend $40 on a used E11 and forget about it.




Honestly, for around $80-$100 you can find a used E12. You'll get way more power and synergy with it compared to the E11.. which will then benefit you're Qs... while still being efficient enough to use with sensitive headphones (should you end up getting a portable)...

Pure awesomeness...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Honestly, for around $80-$100 you can find a used E12. You'll get way more power and synergy with it compared to the E11.. which will then benefit you're Qs... while still being efficient enough to use with sensitive headphones (should you end up getting a portable)...
> 
> Pure awesomeness...


 
  
 Another thing I'll have to bug Evshrug to borrow.  I bet he'd trade the 5.8 and the E12 for the M-stage for a bit.  :-D


----------



## Change is Good

Idk... I might have dibs on dat E12 lol. Been having' dibs for over a year now lol.

His is the pre-order v.1 version with the bass boost aimed at the lowest frequency.


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> Honestly, the K712 is the best all-rounder in the whole guide... even if it costs a bit more.
> 
> As for the BoomPro... our good friend, Zombie_X, is making some adaptors for using it with the AKGs and will be for sale soon.





stillhart said:


> Should you do it?  Well that's on you to decide.  But I don't think the convenience factor of the Boompro should be factored very highly.  They're really expensive and don't save that much hassle.  Those cheap clip-on mics cost like $5 for three of em and they sound fine.
> 
> EDIT - Right and the Zombie_X adaptor will be coming soon.




WHOA! Two almost instant replies!? This is why I love Head-Fi! I checked amazon to see if the K712s could be shipped to Canada and, alas, they can't. Maybe I should have checked that before I asked. Any websites that can ship the K712s to me have them on for around $500. At that price, I'm sure that I'll go with the X1s. Thanks again for the replies.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> WHOA! Two almost instant replies!? This is why I love Head-Fi! I checked amazon to see if the K712s could be shipped to Canada and, alas, they can't. Maybe I should have checked that before I asked. Any websites that can ship the K712s to me have them on for around $500. At that price, I'm sure that I'll go with the X1s. Thanks again for the replies.


 
  
 Check www.razordogaudio.com.  I've heard really good things and they have some coupons going right now for $50 or $100 off.
  
 EDIT - $499 and the $100 coupon = $399.  Don't know if they ship to the frozen north tho.


----------



## Change is Good

You can actually get it for less with coupon *K712PRO* for $375...


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Check www.razordogaudio.com.  I've heard really good things and they have some coupons going right now for $50 or $100 off.
> 
> EDIT - $499 and the $100 coupon = $399.  Don't know if they ship to the frozen north tho.




Thanks a ton for letting me know! They do in fact ship to the "frozen north" as you would say  



change is good said:


> You can actually get it for less with coupon *K712PRO* for $375...




That coupon doesn't seem to be working for me. Not sure why. Even at $400 (+$30 shipping), I might end up getting them.

Edit: Turns out the coupon code is *K712* and I can get it for $400 after shipping with that code.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Thanks a ton for letting me know! They do in fact ship to the "frozen north" as you would say
> That coupon doesn't seem to be working for me. Not sure why. Even at $400 (+$30 shipping), I might end up getting them.
> 
> Edit: Turns out the coupon code is *K712* and I can get it for $400 after shipping with that code.




Nice!


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Thanks a ton for letting me know! They do in fact ship to the "frozen north" as you would say
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Just don't forget that to get the most out  of those headphones, you're going to want an amp.  I can say from experience that the Q701 stepped up a notch with amping.  I think MLE tested these with the E12?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Just don't forget that to get the most out  of those headphones, you're going to want an amp.  I can say from experience that the Q701 stepped up a notch with amping.  *I think MLE tested these with the E12*?


 
  
 Yea, I included it in the package so he can have something to drive them properly...


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Just don't forget that to get the most out  of those headphones, you're going to want an amp.  I can say from experience that the Q701 stepped up a notch with amping.  I think MLE tested these with the E12?




Okay. So with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and the e12, I should be able to drive them well? Also, if and when I get the K712 as well as a separate mic (at least until Zombie_X gets his adapter up for sale), would I be able to run the mic input through the amp or will I have to plug that in seperately via a splitter from the Mixamp? Gosh... the K712+Fiio E12 is gonna be over $500... I'd hate to ask these questions and then go back to the X1...


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Okay. So with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and the e12, I should be able to drive them well? Also, if and when I get the K712 as well as a separate mic (at least until Zombie_X gets his adapter up for sale), would I be able to run the mic input through the amp or will I have to plug that in seperately via a splitter from the Mixamp? Gosh... the K712+Fiio E12 is gonna be over $500... I'd hate to ask these questions and then go back to the X1...


 
 I'd rather you make a purchase well-informed so I don't feel like a dbag for steering you towards a $400 headphone that won't sound great.
  
 Not sure about your questions with the Mixamp as I don't have one.  Which console are you using again?


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Okay. So with my Astro Mixamp 2013 and the e12, I should be able to drive them well? Also, if and when I get the K712 as well as a separate mic (at least until Zombie_X gets his adapter up for sale), would I be able to run the mic input through the amp or will I have to plug that in seperately via a splitter from the Mixamp? Gosh... the K712+Fiio E12 is gonna be over $500... I'd hate to ask these questions and then go back to the X1...


 
  
 The E12 (on high gain) is what I use with my K612, which is harder to drive than the K712. To use chat with a seperate mic, you'll need to use the y-splitter that comes with the Mixamp. It's explained on the first page how to double amp it while still using chat (with a seperate mic, of course)...
  
 When you get the BoomPro, you'll need an additional y-splitter that splits into two female ends. You plug the BoomPro into that, connect green (audio) to the E12, and red (VoiP) to red (VoiP) from the other splitter coming out of the mixamp.


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> The E12 (on high gain) is what I use with my K612, which is harder to drive than the K712. To use chat with a seperate mic, you'll need to use the y-splitter that comes with the Mixamp. It's explained on the first page...




My apologies for asking that question. I was never considering an amp when I read the thread so I must've skipped that part


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> My apologies for asking that question. I was never considering an amp when I read the thread so I must've skipped that part


 
  
 Check my edit for how to use it with the BoomPro when double amping, should you decide to get one.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> I'd rather you make a purchase well-informed so I don't feel like a dbag for steering you towards a $400 headphone that won't sound great.
> 
> Not sure about your questions with the Mixamp as I don't have one.  Which console are you using again?




I definitely appreciate that you are helping me make an educated choice. The issue is that its either the X1+Boom Pro for $330 with no amp needed or the K712+Seperate mic+E12 for well over $500. Huge price difference there and I'm getting uneasy now that the price could be increasing rapidly. I'm using PS4 and Xbox 360 by the way.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> I definitely appreciate that you are helping me make an educated choice. The issue is that its either the X1+Boom Pro for $330 with no amp needed or the K712+Seperate mic+E12 for well over $500. Huge price difference there and I'm getting uneasy now that the price could be increasing rapidly. I'm using PS4 and Xbox 360 by the way.


 
  
 Hmmm.... and the fact that you live outside the US will make it just as expensive going with the Q707/K702 w/ K712 pads. AKG's parts department in other countries have some jacked up prices.
  
 Let me ask you this question. Does the cable _need_ to be detachable? And is the BoomPro _really_ necessary?


----------



## kh600rr

Hey guys, do any of you, use either Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.? And if so, which one is best for gaming? I play tons of Borderlands-2, And other FPS. Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I definitely appreciate that you are helping me make an educated choice. The issue is that its either the X1+Boom Pro for $330 with no amp needed or the K712+Seperate mic+E12 for well over $500. Huge price difference there and I'm getting uneasy now that the price could be increasing rapidly. I'm using PS4 and Xbox 360 by the way.


 
  
 Well to be fair, the K712+E12 is going to sound a LOT better for music.  It's probably not worth the money just for gaming...


----------



## Stillhart

kh600rr said:


> Hey guys, do any of you, use either Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.? And if so, which one is best for gaming? I play tons of Borderlands-2, And other FPS. Thanks.


 
 I have an Omni and it works great.  Don't know how it compares to anything else, TBH.  You might try asking in the Nameless guide to PC gaming.


----------



## Murder Mike

kh600rr said:


> Hey guys, do any of you, use either Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.? And if so, which one is best for gaming? I play tons of Borderlands-2, And other FPS. Thanks.


 
  
 As always, you're going to want to watch the videos with the different surround processing and pick your favorite. Unless you NEED an external solution, an internal solution would work as well. The X-fi Titanium might be best if you like CMSS-3D and want EAX support for older games. 
  
 Missed the part where he said this was for a laptop.


----------



## kh600rr

stillhart said:


> I have an Omni and it works great.  Don't know how it compares to anything else, TBH.  You might try asking in the Nameless guide to PC gaming.



Thanks...


----------



## gorbenzer

Hi guys, please help me... i need a wireless headset with virtual surround for gaming on pc (connected to my TV) and in the future probably a ps4, but i can't decide...
  
 When i'm using my "portable" mini-ITX pc in my room i use a Xonar U3 and HD598, for music i use Fiio X3 and HD598 and now i need a wireless headset with mic when i use my PC in the living room (80% of the time)
  
 My budged is around 300 euros, what is the best option?
  
  
  
 Thanks to anyone that will help!
  
 P.S. just an info... i feel the HD598 a little inadequate with basses for gaming!


----------



## iamstumper

kh600rr said:


> Hey guys, do any of you, use either Asus Xonar U3 or a Creative Soundblaster Omni.? And if so, which one is best for gaming? I play tons of Borderlands-2, And other FPS. Thanks.


 
@kh600rr I've used the Asus Xonar U3 and been using the U7 on my Clevo based laptop (same base laptop as your Sager) for the past 3 months.
  
 Thoroughly enjoy both Xonar products after using the onboard sound for 6 months.
  
 Haven't had the opportunity to compare Asus vs Soundblaster.  And other than my natural curiosity to hear the difference between the two, I haven't felt the "need" to search for another solution.
  
 Primarily used nightly to play FPS, MMOs, movies, and music 
  
 For reference my current set up is laptop --> Xonar U7 --> AKG K712 Pro.
  
 Only thing I feel I need to try next is an amp and dac.  No desire for a new / different surround sound processing option.
  
 .... at least till the next new shiny surround sound processor is released! ;->


----------



## AvroArrow

evshrug said:


> The only thing about the K712... It's at least like $130 more than the Q701, new. The sound is more refined and also easier on the ears, but by itself the change is too slight to justify the price difference from a Q701. For me, it's a keeper though due to the headband, comfort, I like the coiled cable to keep tidy at shorter distances, less fatigue when plugged straight into underpowered devices (iPhone, Mixamp) – it adds up, maybe a bit less than the price still BUT it saves me from having to mod and get amp-picky. It's the best AKG in my opinion, but won't change the world for Q701 owners.


 
  
 Personally, that extra $130 for the K712 (or K702.65 in my case) over the Q701 was worth every penny to me.  I tried the Q701 in the store and took it off in 1 minute it was so uncomfortable, due to both the bumpy headband and stiff ear pads.  I looked for Q701 mods on head-fi and it would be $60 for the memory foam pads from the Annies and another $50-60 for the flat head-band from the K602 or something, plus shipping to Canada, plus modding time (since the headband replacement is NOT an easy process) and the $130 more for the K712/K702.65 is downright reasonable.  Actually, the K712 is a better deal because it includes 2 cables, the standard long straight and shorter coiled.  I ended up buying the AKG coiled cable for $40 for my Annies afterwards.  If it K712 was within $40 of the Annies when I bought mine, I would have got the K712. 
  


grumpy1471 said:


> I definitely appreciate that you are helping me make an educated choice. The issue is that its either the X1+Boom Pro for $330 with no amp needed or the K712+Seperate mic+E12 for well over $500. Huge price difference there and I'm getting uneasy now that the price could be increasing rapidly. I'm using PS4 and Xbox 360 by the way.


 
  
 Just to throw in another wrench into your decision making process, if you decide on the K712 and you don't need a portable amp, consider a desktop amp instead, like a Fiio E09K, JDS Labs O2, Schiit Magni or Vali, all of these are $100-130USD+shipping.  Lithium ion batteries have a finite lifespan and when it dies, who knows whether the manufacturer still has a supply of replacements.  If you go with an AC powered desktop amp, that is not a worry, except for maybe a faulty AC adapter (happened to my 1st Fiio E09k).
  
 I'll re-iterate what others have said, you will need a powerful amp to drive the K712 properly.  When I first got my K702 Annies (also from razordogaudio.com, for a tiny bit less than what you're looking at for the K712) I was driving them from a Fiio E17 and thought that sounded great upgrading from an ATH-AD700.  Then I drove them from an Audioengine D1 (which was actually under-driving them even more than the E17), THEN I finally got a Fiio E09k and WOW... I didn't realize how good the Annies could sound, almost like a new pair of headphones.  Then I got an Asgard 2 (upgrade-itus) and it was only marginally better than the E09k.
  
 I'd say if you can afford the K712 complete setup without going into undue debt then go for it.  It *should* reduce the temptation of you buying all the lesser headphones until you decide to buck up and upgrade to $1,000+ headphone territory.
  
 If I was to do it over again now from my ATH-AD700, I would jump right to the K712 + E09K and call it a day.  The K712/K702.65 Annies are super comfortable (compared to the head torture device that is the Q701).  I would not consider the Philips X1 at all because of the non-replaceable ear pads and poor customer service/support (search head-fi for "fidelio L1 service"), and good luck trying to get even that crappy service in Canada.  That and the boomier bass of the X1.  I really like the more flat/neutral response curve of the Annies.  I've heard stuff with a more U-shaped curves like ATH-M50, DT880 premium, M-80 and I don't like the boomy bass and sharp treble.  The K712 has replaceable ear pads and comes with 2 cables (I bought an extra coiled cable for my Annies).  If you need chat capability, add the V-moda BoomPro and Zombie_X's soon to be released adapter, which I'll probably get a couple of, one as a spare or a future AKG headphone.  =P  That should keep you set for years for music and gaming.  I'm mostly music and PC gaming but I did try my Annies with a Turtle Beach ACU and XBox360 (from the TB PX5 set I bought before discovering head-fi) and it really, really needs an amp to make them sound good.


----------



## Murder Mike

avroarrow said:


> I'd say if you can afford the K712 complete setup without going into undue debt then go for it.  It *should* reduce the temptation of you buying all the lesser headphones until you decide to buck up and upgrade to $1,000+ headphone territory.


 
  
 I completely agree with this part of your post.


----------



## Change is Good

avroarrow said:


> I'd say if you can afford the K712 complete setup without going into undue debt then go for it.  It *should* reduce the temptation of you buying all the lesser headphones until you decide to buck up and upgrade to $1,000+ headphone territory.


 
  


murder mike said:


> I completely agree with this part of your post.


 
  
 Ditto...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, shooting straight for the K712 is a great idea, as its bound to impress almost anyone, and halt the temptation of buying something better/more expensive.

The only thing holding me back would be the eventual HE400i, which will be $500, planarmagnetic, and easy to drive, with a tonal balance that should be similar to the HE500. Time will tell. Other than that, the K712 for $375, is the best option, IMHO.


----------



## Zombie_X

IMO the K712 is just a side grade from the other K701 variations. I've heard one and nothing about them wants me to upgrade from the Q701. There are sonic differences, but nothing major enough to make me want to pay more for a variation. So IMO the $200 is a darned good deal right now on Amazon, don't waste your money of the $400 K712.
  
 Feel free to disagree gents, all is fair in love and war..


----------



## Change is Good

I have no beef... I own a K612 after owning most of the latter x7xx models...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Jooce

How would you guys pair another th50rp for gaming? Looking specifically at the ZMFs and Paradox.
 I've heard great things about how musical the headphones are but I'd like to see if it blends well with my other hobby


----------



## Stillhart

jooce said:


> How would you guys pair another th50rp for gaming? Looking specifically at the ZMFs and Paradox.
> I've heard great things about how musical the headphones are but I'd like to see if it blends well with my other hobby


 

 I suspect they'll have similar strengths and weaknesses to the Mad Dog, reviewed in this guide.  Mainly that closed headphones aren't great for gaming...


----------



## Stillhart

zombie_x said:


> IMO the K712 is just a side grade from the other K701 variations. I've heard one and nothing about them wants me to upgrade from the Q701. There are sonic differences, but nothing major enough to make me want to pay more for a variation. So IMO the $200 is a darned good deal right now on Amazon, don't waste your money of the $400 K712.
> 
> Feel free to disagree gents, all is fair in love and war..


 
  
 I want to agree with Zombie_X here.  I haven't heard the K712 so I can't comment directly.  But seriously, I can't imagine they sound TWICE as good as the Q701 for twice the price.  Especially since so many people say that the pads are the main difference and those are like a $60 upgrade.
  
 I adore my Q701 so obviously I'm biased.  I just don't think upgrading to the K712 would be worth the money for me and I project that onto others.  :-D


----------



## Change is Good

I, too, have to agree. The only _real noticeable_ difference between a K712 PRO and a Q701/K702 with K712 pads is the comfort from it's headband...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is exactly why I say if you want the K712 sound (very close to it) for cheap, just get a standard K702, and order the K12 pads. You'll end up saving around $100. I wouldn't get the Q701 or K702, because they still have the bumped headband.

That being said, the K712's sound IS worth it over the others if you want more warmth, bass, and less upper range fatigue. The standard models sound dry and less musical in comparison.

Now I'm just basically repeating what I said on the guide.

I wouldn't use a standard 7xx as my only headphone if they aren't using the K712 pads which do make a rather significant difference in immersion and fun factor.


----------



## lttlfld

Hi everyone, I've got a 5.1 surround setup centered around a Denon 1513 and was wondering if this receiver will deliver something equivalent to dolby surround to my MA900s if I plug them into the front? Or do I need to buy a separate amp/DAC for them? Currently gaming on the X1 and getting into Titanfall with my buds online.


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> Hi everyone, I've got a 5.1 surround setup centered around a Denon 1513 and was wondering if this receiver will deliver something equivalent to dolby surround to my MA900s if I plug them into the front? Or do I need to buy a separate amp/DAC for them? Currently gaming on the X1 and getting into Titanfall with my buds online.


 

 According to their website it has "Virtual Surround Mode – For 2 Speakers/Headphones".  I can't speak to how good their processing is tho...


----------



## lttlfld

stillhart said:


> According to their website it has "Virtual Surround Mode – For 2 Speakers/Headphones".  I can't speak to how good their processing is tho...




I saw that but had no idea what it meant. So much of this audio stuff just sounds like mumbo jumbo. Does anyone have experience using an av receiver as the source?


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> I saw that but had no idea what it meant. So much of this audio stuff just sounds like mumbo jumbo. Does anyone have experience using an av receiver as the source?


 

 I have Dolby Headphone on my Harmon Kardon receiver.  Works great, I just prefer the THX surround processing on my Recon and Omni. 
  
 What you're missing is that Dolby Headphone and THX TruAudio (or whatever they call it) and Silent Cinema all do the same thing:  process 5.1 signal into virtual surround.  They just use different programming so the sound will be a little different with each.  If you watch the comparison video in the guide, you'll see that CMSS-3D, THX and DH all sound very similar but some will sound more 3D to you than others.
  
 So this Virtual Surround on your Denon does the same thing using, what I'm assuming is, proprietary tech.  I don't know how it compares to DH and only you can tell us if it sounds good to your ears.  Why not plug in your headphones and find out?


----------



## AxelCloris

Holy cow, I step away for a few hours and you guys blow up this thread? Damn, you all need to spend more time gaming and less time reading forums. 
  
 Everyone should go buy ESO and join me. That'll help.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Holy cow, I step away for a few hours and you guys blow up this thread? Damn, you all need to spend more time gaming and less time reading forums.
> 
> Everyone should go buy ESO and join me. That'll help.




I don't have a PC you troll!


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Holy cow, I step away for a few hours and you guys blow up this thread? Damn, you all need to spend more time gaming and less time reading forums.
> 
> Everyone should go buy ESO and join me. That'll help.


 
  
 The ESO beta just did NOT do it for me.  I think I'm burnt out on MMO's.  Wildstar looks promising but not different enough to get me excited.  I'd take a buddy key if anyone's preordered though.  :-D


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I don't have a PC you troll!


 
  
 You have a big black boxy thing that should sell for about $350ish. Sell that and build a budget gaming machine. 
  


stillhart said:


> The ESO beta just did NOT do it for me.  I think I'm burnt out on MMO's.  Wildstar looks promising but not different enough to get me excited.  I'd take a buddy key if anyone's preordered though.  :-D


 
  
 As someone who has played since September, the game has polished a lot since beta. I have fellow writers who utterly despised the beta week who are now enjoying the game implicitly. But I can understand resistance if you didn't enjoy the beta experience.
  
 As for Wildstar, I managed to play at PAX East and spend some time with part of the development team. That game does show some real promise. I feel it could potentially capture WoW's target audience.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I don't have a PC you troll!


 

 Isn't ESO coming out for PS4 too?


----------



## Change is Good

Yes, but I just don't game enough like I used to. Buying an MMO that will charge me a monthly fee makes no sense at this time. 

And neither does a gaming PC!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Yes, but I just don't game enough like I used to. Buying an MMO that will charge me a monthly fee makes no sense at this time.
> 
> And neither does a gaming PC!


 
  
 But... a console is just a dedicated gaming PC with universally standardized specs...


----------



## Change is Good

But... this console is something I already have... which replaced my last console. I only own two games, because they're all I have time to play. 

I'm not even pre-ordering watch dogs (something Ive been waiting for since announcement) because I know I won't have time. I'll just wait to borrow it when I do...

Not gon' work Axel 

I'll stick to going broke on headphones lol


----------



## gorbenzer

gorbenzer said:


> Hi guys, please help me... i need a wireless headset with virtual surround for gaming on pc (connected to my TV) and in the future probably a ps4, but i can't decide...
> 
> When i'm using my "portable" mini-ITX pc in my room i use a Xonar U3 and HD598, for music i use Fiio X3 and HD598 and now i need a wireless headset with mic when i use my PC in the living room (80% of the time)
> 
> ...


 
 bump!
  
 Anyone have an opinion about this? there are too mani options and different opinion about this on the net... for example yesterday i got an offer for Astro A50 used very little for 5 months at 200 euros and initially i was going to buy it because of the great reviews... but then i found out that audiophile around the word say that they are crap... (even Mad Lust Envy say that) so i really can't decide... i don't trust websites reviews anymore!


----------



## Change is Good

gorbenzer said:


> bump!
> 
> Anyone have an opinion about this? there are too mani options and different opinion about this on the net... for example yesterday i got an offer for Astro A50 used very little for 5 months at 200 euros and initially i was going to buy it because of the great reviews... but then i found out that audiophile around the word say that they are crap... (even Mad Lust Envy say that) so i really can't decide... i don't trust websites reviews anymore!


 
  
 Have you even looked through the front page? If I can recall, there's a wireless headset that MLE recommends for those that _really_ need a wireless headset. I forgot the name of 'em... maybe on purpose...


----------



## gorbenzer

change is good said:


> Have you even looked through the front page? If I can recall, there's a wireless headset that MLE recommends for those that _really_ need a wireless headset. I forgot the name of 'em... maybe on purpose...


 
 I think i read all the from page and in the top choices none of the headphones there are listed as wireless... maybe i missed something? i thought MLE didn't suggest nay wireless device because he hates them all ^^.
  
 Anyone tried the Steelseries H wireless? they are quite new...
  
 Maybe it's better if i search for a wireless amp like the Astro A40 mix amp and connect my HD598 to it? wouldn't be a lot comfortable...
  
 Actually i tried to buy a pair of Razer Chimaera stereo for only 50 euros (used, 130 euros is the retail price) and the basses are ok (explosions are great), mid and trebles are veiled a lot and lastly the overall comfort is CRAP! i don't know who designed this headset but it's totally mad! Maybe because i'm bald but i miss at least 4/5 cm to reach the headband!!! it's like they are designed for south park aliens!!!


----------



## Stillhart

Go read the section on the Skullcandy PLYR1 again.  You may also want to search the thread for keywords like "wireless", "steelseries", etc.


----------



## pervysage

Antlion Modmic 4.0's should be getting delivered at the beginning of May. Anyone looking for a mic may want to look out for the pre-orders when they begin.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

gorbenzer said:


> I think i read all the from page and in the top choices none of the headphones there are listed as wireless... maybe i missed something? i thought MLE didn't suggest nay wireless device because he hates them all ^^.




Considering I use the Mixamp 5.8 which essentially makes all headphones _ wireless_, I don't know where you came up with that. I've only owned/heard two wireless headphones: the A50 and PLYR1. I prefer the PLYR1, which I gave a favorable review. I even had some months debating on whether I should get the Sennheiser RS220 or not, because being completely wireless is very liberating. Too bad it has a lot of negative reviews on it's functionality.

And I literally put *wireless headset* on the headphone listings...


----------



## gorbenzer

stillhart said:


> Go read the section on the Skullcandy PLYR1 again.  You may also want to search the thread for keywords like "wireless", "steelseries", etc.


 
 You are right, but sadly no way to find those in Italy


----------



## gorbenzer

mad lust envy said:


> Considering I use the Mixamp 5.8 which essentially makes all headphones _ wireless_, I don't know where you came up with that. I've only owned/heard two wireless headphones: the A50 and PLYR1. I prefer the PLYR1, which I gave a favorable review. I even had some months debating on whether I should get the Sennheiser RS220 or not, because being completely wireless is very liberating. Too bad it has a lot of negative reviews on it's functionality.
> 
> And I literally put *wireless headset* on the headphone listings...


 
 Whops i read all the page at late night i think i missed something, sorry 
  
 Yesterday i got this offer for A50 for 200 euros so i gone mad searching infos on the web and found you wonderful list of reviews.
  
 Seems like i'll drop for now the idea of a wireless headset, unless someone decide to create an open headset with mic and HD598 sound quality with more basses... i hate compromises :/


----------



## Eeaeau

Nice guide!
 Was wondering to buy the k712 and the schiit magni, have you tried this combination, if so can you recommend it ?


----------



## Murder Mike

eeaeau said:


> Nice guide!
> Was wondering to buy the k712 and the schiit magni, have you tried this combination, if so can you recommend it ?


 
 The Magni will run the K712 very well.


----------



## Change is Good

Yea, the K712 is the most efficient of the open AKG lineup... so the Magni should drive them well...


----------



## grumpy1471

Thanks to everyone who replied about the K712s and answered my questions. I'm too lazy to quote everyone who helped  but you all helped a ton. 

From what I've gathered, the K712 does need an amp, however, I'm not sure what amp would be best. Seeing as I don't really need a portable amp (all of my portable headphones are efficient enough), would the E09K be my best bet? What i like about the E09K is that if I get the E09K and end up needing a DAC in the future, I can get something like an E17. That can be used as both a DAC and amp in portable use and can be docked on the E09K for desktop use. 

So, in the end, the K712+E09K+Clip on mic+Astro Mixamp 2013 seems like my best bet (of course, with the possibility of getting one of Zombie_X's adapters as well as the Boom Pro). Does my planned gaming setup seem good?


----------



## krns

I'm looking to buy my first pair of decent headphones from Amazon (I have some money on there).
  
 I'm split between:

Creative Aurvana Live! 2
Audio-Technica ATHM50
Sennheiser HD 558
Phillips L1/28 Fidelio
Shure SRH440
V-Moda M-80
 
 I also listen to EDM / light rock, and I kind of want an all-around pair of headphones. I've heard good things about all of these headphones (mostly the Sennheisers / Audiotechnicas), and they're all in the same price range, except the SRH440.
  
 Has anyone tried these headphones, and what did you think about positioning and sound leakage?
  
 And should I spend money and buy an amp / soundcard?
 (Will mainly be listening out of PC)


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Thanks to everyone who replied about the K712s and answered my questions. I'm too lazy to quote everyone who helped
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind that the DAC isn't going to do anything for your console setup.  Personally, I'd get a Magni or Vali, but I admit I really like Schiit's style and that heavily influences my decision on anything Schiit-related.  lol
  
 Other than that, I think your setup will kick ass.  You will certainly not be disappointed.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Keep in mind that the DAC isn't going to do anything for your console setup.  Personally, I'd get a Magni or Vali, but I admit I really like Schiit's style and that heavily influences my decision on anything Schiit-related.  lol
> 
> Other than that, I think your setup will kick ass.  You will certainly not be disappointed.




I took a look at that Schiit (I love their name lol) and I definitely agree with you in terms of their style. Sadly, it would cost around $30 to ship to me which would put it at par with the price of the E09K (at least on a Canadian website). When it comes to the versatility of the E09K, I quite like how it can be used with or without a DAC. For the E09K, I was thinking that I could have the USB going from my PC to the USB input and have the Mixamp going to the analog input. When I want to listen to music, I put the E17 in, flip a switch and have a great music setup. I can flip the switch again to have my gaming setup. 

Also, thanks for giving me the thumbs up on the setup. I may have finally decided on what I'm going to go for.


----------



## Evshrug

Avro,
In addition to why I said earlier the K712 would end up being my long-term keeper (I agree with you on most points), I'd still say the Q701 is a huge value compared to the very good K712 (which is priced on the level of the HD650 and DT990) because even at ~$200, it sounds like it's within that caliber. Especially when you scale up the performance with a desktop amp. 

Both pads feel very similar on my ears (slight nod to the K712 long-term, but putting on cool Q701s after wearing the warmed-up K712 after playing for 4 hours feels like a relief, so mostly it's a heat thing, whichever isn't already warm), also I bought a pair of very nice/cushy baby seatbelt wraps for like $10 which made the Q701 headband more comfy than a bare K712 headband, and finally the Q701 also comes with a second cable (it's like 20' long or something equally ridiculous, if I had soldering skills I'd cut it up into 3 shorter spares). I do think the K712 is a bit smoother even if not plugged into a dedicated desktop-class amp (the E12 is basically a portable desktop amp), but really both k712 and Q701 unlock their full dynamic potential when a desktop-class amp is used.

I do love my K712, but it's a luxury upgrade rather than something that makes a lot of practical money sense when the Q701 (or I guess K702?) is considered. The K612 looks like it may hit a sweet spot in value too, looking forward to demoing that!


----------



## Evshrug

Grumpy,
Just FYI, you could easily hook up a FiiO E17 with line-out to a Magni as well, or use any other DAC with the E09K plugged into the analogue input (analogue input splitters/hubs/switches ought to be an easy find if switching a cable is much less convenient than switching a switch). The FiiO "system" is tidy, but not the only way to accomplish your goal.



For the wireless kids:
PLYR 1 is so far the best wireless gaming headset I've seen reviewed. You could also buy an Astro Mixamp 5.8 from eBay or part of a bundle from the Microsoft Store (and resell the headphone), or you could get one of Sennheiser's wireless sets and plug in a surround processor (the closed mid-range Senn wireless comes with a "surround" processing, but I don't know if it actually uses 5.1 positional audio accurately) and find some other way to get mic input.

Typically I have a better experience with something I can plug my own headphones and amp (and DAC?) into than splitting the cost into an "all in one included system."


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Avro,
> In addition to why I said earlier the K712 would end up being my long-term keeper (I agree with you on most points), I'd still say the Q701 is a huge value compared to the very good K712 (which is priced on the level of the HD650 and DT990) because even at ~$200, it sounds like it's within that caliber. Especially when you scale up the performance with a desktop amp.
> 
> Both pads feel very similar on my ears (slight nod to the K712 long-term, but putting on cool Q701s after wearing the warmed-up K712 after playing for 4 hours feels like a relief, so mostly it's a heat thing, whichever isn't already warm), also I bought a pair of very nice/cushy baby seatbelt wraps for like $10 which made the Q701 headband more comfy than a bare K712 headband, and finally the Q701 also comes with a second cable (it's like 20' long or something equally ridiculous, if I had soldering skills I'd cut it up into 3 shorter spares). I do think the K712 is a bit smoother even if not plugged into a dedicated desktop-class amp (the E12 is basically a portable desktop amp), but really both k712 and Q701 unlock their full dynamic potential when a desktop-class amp is used.
> ...


 

 I have to agree I don't find the K712 much of an upgrade from the Q701, it was slightly but seemed more like a slight upgrade with a different sound signature. That is true, they sound so much better on a good desktop amp.
  
 I find the K612 really struts it's stuff on a tube amp, especially in terms of fun-factor, immersiveness, and dynamics.


----------



## Stillhart

Just wanted to jump in and mention that tonight I listened to the X1's through the M-stage for the first time.  Man, they sound a lot better! 
  
 The loose bass has really tightened up.  It still feels like the mids are veiled and the highs aren't as sparkly as I'd like, but it no longer feels like it's that way because the bass is intruding all over them.  I think it's just a warmer sound overall that I'm hearing (vs the Q). 
  
 I'm definitely upgrading my opinion of these with the amping.  I don't think it benefits as much as the Q, but the benefits it gets are where it needs it most.  Oh, I still prefer the sound signature of the Q overall, but these are great for more dancy electronica.
  
 When my new E11 comes in, I'll see how much of this is because of the M-stage vs just having any amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Noticed someone mentioned using the Fiio E09K's usb input. That ONLY works when the Fiio E07k or E17 are docked.


----------



## Change is Good

Dude, the MOE is quite amazing for gaming! I've been using these, exclusively, since they arrived and can say the soundtstage is absolutely stellar for being an on-ear...


----------



## thecalculator

Hey guys! I am planning on buying the k712 pros. I am a pc gamer that loves listening to edm. Should I get a sound card or a amp? Or even both? I was thinking of the sound blaster x-fi titanium hd sound card. Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Stillhart

thecalculator said:


> Hey guys! I am planning on buying the k712 pros. I am a pc gamer that loves listening to edm. Should I get a sound card or a amp? Or even both? I was thinking of the sound blaster x-fi titanium hd sound card. Any advice would be appreciated.


 
  
 If you're getting a $400 headphone, I highly recommend you also get the equipment that'll make it sound like it should.  That means definitely getting an amp.  If you're gaming from your PC, a soundcard is always a good idea.  The one you mentioned gets solid reviews around here.  However, if you're getting an amp as well, you don't need to spend much on a sound card as you'll just be using it for DSP and DAC.  I'd recommend a Sound Blaster Z or Omni (whichever is cheaper when you decide to buy).


----------



## grumpy1471

mad lust envy said:


> Noticed someone mentioned using the Fiio E09K's usb input. That ONLY works when the Fiio E07k or E17 are docked.




That was me and I was aware of that. Actually did my research for once  

Any thoughts on the E09K vs the Magni?

^Edit: Please disregard this question. It has come to my attention that I am a hypocrite


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> That was me and I was aware of that. Actually did my research for once
> 
> Any thoughts on the E09K vs the Magni?



His thoughts on both of those are in the amp section if the guide.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> His thoughts on both of those are in the amp section if the guide.




Dangit! I was sitting back laughing at the people that were asking questions that could be answered on the first page, and now, I'm asking those questions myself!


----------



## Eeaeau

thanks for the replies, do I need a dac too? and if I want dolby headphone also, how can I get this in the easiest and cheapest way to the magni amp?


----------



## Murder Mike

eeaeau said:


> thanks for the replies, do I need a dac too? and if I want dolby headphone also, how can I get this in the easiest and cheapest way to the magni amp?


 
 Are you gaming on console or PC?


----------



## Booby Trap

Do the K612 pro really need an amp or do they still sound good without one? I've decided to go for them and will be using them on my laptop, mostly for gaming and every now and then for movies and maybe music.
 If it's really recommended then I could probably get one down the road but I have no idea which one. So what ~$100 or less amp would be recommended for these headphones?
  
 Are the Q701 really worth the extra 20 buck and do they need an amp?
  
 10/10 thread btw


----------



## AxelCloris

booby trap said:


> Do the K612 pro really need an amp or do they still sound good without one?


 
  
 "The K612 Pro is a higher impedance than it's 7xx siblings, and therefore demands more power to hit a moderate volume in comparison. For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic. Even with the Mixamp putting all it's power on game audio, the K612 pro hits moderate, not high volume levels.

 I recommend an amp with a warm signature to offset the slight tizzyness in the upper ranges, though it isn't crucial as the K612 Pro isn't exactly fatiguing.

 The K612 Pro's neutral signature is bound to change in tonality depending on the amp used, so matching the K612 to a proper amp is essential. Again, I recommend a warmer sounding amp to better match the K612's neutrality and shave off the slight harshness up top."


> Are the Q701 really worth the extra 20 buck and do they need an amp?


 
  
 "The sound also scales with amping, but isn't really necessary"
  
 Everything in quotes was taken directly from the first post, where MLE answered these questions and more. He also covers a $99 amp, the Schiit Magni, in the same post.


----------



## conquerator2

The K612 sound very good off my Clip+ and I could probably live with them off that. They obviously scale higher with more power.
 However, I wouldn't say that they are unlistenable off weaker DAPs but a 100 bucks powerful amp [Magni, Vali,...] would do them better.
 I have no idea just how good or bad the Mixamp is, it is probably worse than the Clip then...


----------



## Booby Trap

axelcloris said:


> "The K612 Pro is a higher impedance than it's 7xx siblings, and therefore demands more power to hit a moderate volume in comparison. For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic. Even with the Mixamp putting all it's power on game audio, the K612 pro hits moderate, not high volume levels.
> 
> I recommend an amp with a warm signature to offset the slight tizzyness in the upper ranges, though it isn't crucial as the K612 Pro isn't exactly fatiguing.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah but I wanted to hear some opinions. Is higher volume all the amp will offer or does the sound quality also improve? I don't really need a mic and "moderate volume" could still be good enough for me as I don't need the headphone to blast my ears off.
  
 He says that one with a warm signature is recommended. Since I'm new to this idk what that means and which one offers that. >_>


----------



## grumpy1471

booby trap said:


> Yeah but I wanted to hear some opinions. Is higher volume all the amp will offer or does the sound quality also improve? I don't really need a mic and "moderate volume" could still be good enough for me as I don't need the headphone to blast my ears off.
> 
> He says that one with a warm signature is recommended. Since I'm new to this idk what that means and which one offers that. >_>




If you're using the Mixamp 2013, I would highly suggest an amp if you want to hit those higher volumes or even moderate volume without hiss. At around 75% volume on the Mixamp, the hiss is just unbearable for me and is really annoying.


----------



## Booby Trap

I don't have a mixamp. I'm wondering how good the headphone will sound if I just connect it directly to my laptop's 3.5mm jack. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. >.>
  
 If they're good with the Clip+ I'm guessing they should work well with a laptop?


----------



## Stillhart

booby trap said:


> Yeah but I wanted to hear some opinions. Is higher volume all the amp will offer or does the sound quality also improve? I don't really need a mic and "moderate volume" could still be good enough for me as I don't need the headphone to blast my ears off.
> 
> He says that one with a warm signature is recommended. Since I'm new to this idk what that means and which one offers that. >_>


 

 I had my Q701 for a month or two with no amp and was perfectly happy with it.  Then I got an amp and realized what everybody was talking about.  It's not about volume.  The amp changes the sound for the better...I don't understand the science behind it, but my ears were used to the sound without the amp and could hear the difference with the amp. 
  
 Is it necessary?  No, absolutely not.  However, when you read about how good the headphones are, people are reviewing them with an amp.  If you aren't using an amp, you won't hear them to their full potential.  If you're not hearing them to their full potential, you're kind of wasting money (IMHO). 
  
 Regarding the amp sound signature, I believe Fiio's tend to run on the warmer side, as well as the Schiit Vali.  The Magni and the O2 tend to be more "analytical" and "cold".  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...


----------



## conquerator2

booby trap said:


> I don't have a mixamp. I'm wondering how good the headphone will sound if I just connect it directly to my laptop's 3.5mm jack. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. >.>
> 
> If they're good with the Clip+ I'm guessing they should work well with a laptop?


 
  


booby trap said:


> I don't have a mixamp. I'm wondering how good the headphone will sound if I just connect it directly to my laptop's 3.5mm jack. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. >.>
> 
> If they're good with the Clip+ I'm guessing they should work well with a laptop?


 
 No that's not true. What kind of soundcard does the laptop have?
 Clip is first and foremost a portable player and the parts correspond that, while the laptop's SQ properties are usually a lot worse than any decent music player [that's clip and above]


----------



## Fegefeuer

I bought a red LE M50 for around 77 Euros to lay down in bed and bring to work and in the few hours I had with it I think it's a pretty good headphone for that price. It's noticably sub bass emphasized and goes pretty low. At 20hz the rolloff was most noticable, but 30Hz was rather easily accomplished. I didn't find any sibilance yet that would remind me of a T90, DT880, Pro 900 (
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), no annoyances at all. Maybe it's a revision thing. The subbass elevation additionally masks the highs so this headphone goes into smooth/forgiving terrority and reminds me of a small Ultrasone Signature DJ (and also how the DJ shouldn't cost more than 399 Dollars). Everything's rather smooth and polite, no aggression really. It's clean (as in no annoying resonance or harshness/multiple peaky but not the best in transparency. 
  
 I found the spaciousness to be decent with SBX (67%) and BF4 and this being a really closed phone, haven't played anything else yet. The subbass during explosions in the near and far distance surely helped the immersion. However it shouldn't be a headphone for those that want gaming as the first priority - for that price however I only know the CAL. For 50€ the MA 900 can be bought but I think the M50 build leaves less room for worries about practically taking them everywhere.


----------



## Booby Trap

conquerator2 said:


> No that's not true. What kind of soundcard does the laptop have?
> Clip is first and foremost a portable player and the parts correspond that, while the laptop's SQ properties are usually a lot worse than any decent music player [that's clip and above]


 
  
 Err I'm not really sure. When I go to device manager to check I see 3 things listed under audio control:
  
 - IDT High Definition Audio CODEC
 - NVIDIA High Definition Audio
 - NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)
  
 Not really sure which one is the sound card, if it's one of them at all.
  


stillhart said:


> I had my Q701 for a month or two with no amp and was perfectly happy with it.  Then I got an amp and realized what everybody was talking about.  It's not about volume.  The amp changes the sound for the better...I don't understand the science behind it, but my ears were used to the sound without the amp and could hear the difference with the amp.
> 
> Is it necessary?  No, absolutely not.  However, when you read about how good the headphones are, people are reviewing them with an amp.  If you aren't using an amp, you won't hear them to their full potential.  If you're not hearing them to their full potential, you're kind of wasting money (IMHO).
> 
> Regarding the amp sound signature, I believe Fiio's tend to run on the warmer side, as well as the Schiit Vali.  The Magni and the O2 tend to be more "analytical" and "cold".  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong...


 
 I see. Thanks for this post. If it really makes a difference then I'll get an amp, if not with the headphone then later down the road.
  
 Now to know which amp to get. 
 The Fiio and Vali do seem pretty good.


----------



## Eeaeau

PC, now im using a laptop, but later i will buy a desktop


----------



## thecalculator

stillhart said:


> If you're getting a $400 headphone, I highly recommend you also get the equipment that'll make it sound like it should.  That means definitely getting an amp.  If you're gaming from your PC, a soundcard is always a good idea.  The one you mentioned gets solid reviews around here.  However, if you're getting an amp as well, you don't need to spend much on a sound card as you'll just be using it for DSP and DAC.  I'd recommend a Sound Blaster Z or Omni (whichever is cheaper when you decide to buy).



Thanks for the reply stillhart.
Which amp should I get? Im new to the scene. Whats dsp and dac?


----------



## AxelCloris

thecalculator said:


> Thanks for the reply stillhart.
> Which amp should I get? Im new to the scene. Whats dsp and dac?


 
  
 A DSP is a Digital Sound Processor. It's what converts 5.1 signals such as Dolby and THX to a simulated surround sound through a stereo output. It effectively gives you surround sound out of a pair of stereo headphones and it's what we primarily use in this thread. A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. These are what convert digital signal to analog and allow you to hear the sound through headphones or speakers. Many times these two are part of the same device, but it's possible to have them separated.
  
 *EDIT* I are supremus!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> A DSP is a Digital Sound Processor


 
 I always thought it meant digital signal processing as in, a DSP unit. I've also heard it referred to as digital signal processor, but always thought people were just abbreviating for convenience. Maybe I'm wrong (would make sense as I've had a few drinks).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Always heard it as sound.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Always heard it as sound.


 
 Not arguing, just saying, that's what I always thought it meant.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wasn't arguing either, lol.

You could be right. Digital signal processing is a real term. 

Digital sound processing may be something made up more recently. It's been used online, but dsp itself is actual more commonly know as signal processing.


----------



## Stillhart

I think the point is that the way I used it, it means it's processing the sound/signal from 5.1 into stereo with virtual surround.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> I wasn't arguing either, lol.
> 
> You could be right. Digital signal processing is a real term.
> 
> Digital sound processing may be something made up more recently. It's been used online, but dsp itself is actual more commonly know as signal processing.


 
 Did I come off as being defensive? Didn't mean to 
  
 I think I read it somewhere. I retained the info but not where I learned it. I guess it's a necessity, otherwise I'd only be able to learn half as much and the other half of my knowledge would be where I learned that knowledge, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

thecalculator said:


> Thanks for the reply stillhart.
> Which amp should I get? Im new to the scene. Whats dsp and dac?


 

DSP = Digital Signal Processor, something that processes the surround sound into a stereo mix for headphones that still sounds like it comes from surround directions.

DAC = *D*igital to *A*nalogue *C*onverter, takes turns digital 1's & 0's into the electric pulses that make headphones or speakers work. All digital systems (CD's, DVD's, games, mp3's, etc) require a DAC, nicer DACs resolve finer details and nuance.

Amp = Amplifier, drives analogue pulses to the appropriate strength and gain (volume) for headphones and speakers, also allows adjustment of volume. Nicer ones aren't primarily about "louder," they are for better control to represent tones more accurately.

Best place to ask about "which amp" would be in the support & review threads about the headphone you have/want. There have also been some good recommendations for amps on this page and the previous page of this thread.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> DSP = Digital Signal Processor, something that processes the surround sound into a stereo mix for headphones that still sounds like it comes from surround directions.
> 
> DAC = *D*igital to *A*nalogue *C*onverter, takes turns digital 1's & 0's into the electric pulses that make headphones or speakers work. All digital systems (CD's, DVD's, games, mp3's, etc) require a DAC, nicer DACs resolve finer details and nuance.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> A DSP is a...
> 
> *EDIT* I are supremus!



Derp, you beat me to it by a few hours (didn't refresh the page after my 15 min break, now I'm off work). I'm gonna leave my version up, cuz I like my wording better 

And grats on supremacy! Now everyone's going to think a sound engineer like you is going to be reputable as me! h34r:




napalmhardcore said:


> ... Maybe I'm wrong (would make sense as I've had a few drinks).



You suspect it's wrong, but it feels so right! Join me as I grab a hard cider and game some CoD streamed from PS4, it'll be fun!

Just search twitch "PS4 for Head-Fi, with Evshrug", or just search "Evshrug," you'll see it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Join me as I grab a hard cider and game some CoD streamed from PS4, it'll be fun!
> 
> Just search twitch "PS4 for Head-Fi, with Evshrug", or just search "Evshrug," you'll see it.


 
 It's nearly 5 in the morning here and I've got a gig tonight...
  
 What the hell, sounds like fun!


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> And grats on supremacy! Now everyone's going to think a sound engineer like you is going to be reputable as me!


 
  
 Just because I have a degree in Audio Engineering doesn't mean I know as much/more about headphones as those who don't.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Just because I have a degree in Audio Engineering doesn't mean I know as much/more about headphones as those who don't.


 

 No, obviously it's the Supremus!  lol


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Just because I have a degree in Audio Engineering doesn't mean I know as much/more about headphones as those who don't. :tongue_smile:



I'm still a fan, you're a great guy regardless of the fact that you happen to have a relevant qualification. Were you my mystery follower on the stream?


PS, taking a short break for snacks and water. Also, I'm a bit dizzy cuz I'm a lightweight.


----------



## blinkstar

Can any of you tell me how the Audio Technica ATH-A900x's are for gaming?
  
 My favorite cans for gaming are still the Denon D2000s. I just got a pair of X1s and haven't been all that impressed with them for gaming, despite the positive attention they get here, so I'm thinking of switching to the A900s ... if you've used them for gaming, how are they in terms of bass and soundstage?


----------



## Zombie_X

mad lust envy said:


> This is exactly why I say if you want the K712 sound (very close to it) for cheap, just get a standard K702, and order the K12 pads. You'll end up saving around $100. I wouldn't get the Q701 or K702, because they still have the bumped headband.
> 
> That being said, the K712's sound IS worth it over the others if you want more warmth, bass, and less upper range fatigue. The standard models sound dry and less musical in comparison.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yo,
  
 I'm inclined to disagree. The K712 sounds almost exactly the same but they are so ever slightly warmer, SLIGHTLY. They are not worth $200 by any means at all. $200 more for a tiny bit of a sound change? Not worth it man, the Q701 is one of the best values out there while the K712 and Anniversary aren't. I have some K712 pads on hand I got from AKG and they honestly make little difference at all. They are a tiny bit more comfortable and they don't change the sound much. They do but I'll say it again, it's very slight, like barely anything.
  
 The Anniversary is another variation of the K70* line, it's not much different either and not worth the extra $200-$250 either, not by a long shot. To me it sounds the exact same as the K712, the EXACT same. To say they are worth the extra $200 is ludicrous. Having heard the entire line of variations, I suggest people go for the more affordable option, and at the time being it is the Q701 ($200).
  
 I don't know how anyone could justify such a large difference in price for barely any improvements.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To me, saying the Q701 sounds the same as the Annie and K712 is like saying the DT880 sounds like the DT990.


The difference between the Q701/K712 is more noticeable than say the different impedances of the 880 or 990s which have their subtle differences but remain true to their respective sound signatures. Considering you noted the difference between the impedances on those Beyers, I'm actually quite surprised you think the AKGs sound the same. I do agree that $200 is overpricing the differences. That being said, you can't put a price tag on perfecting a headphone.

The Q701, as good as it is, has always been a bit lean on bass, and a bit dry sounding. The K712 and Annie rectified both these nitpicks, and made them more favorable for the general consumers. You may not hear the differences, but to me, it's as plain as day. There's no mistaking the addition of warmth and bass, making the upper mid peak less jarring.


But again, you can easily get a Q701 and spend the $65 or so for the K712 pads and you'll have a makeshift Annie. But like I have said many, many times before, it's worth getting the K702 for $20 more over the Q701instead because the K702 has NO bumps. You still have to contend with the bump discomfort if you bought the Q701.


Hey, at least we're not seeing a massive price jump like going from the LCD2 to the LCD3, which I hear is also a subtle improvement not worth the massive spike in price.


----------



## kman1211

zombie_x said:


> Yo,
> 
> I'm inclined to disagree. The K712 sounds almost exactly the same but they are so ever slightly warmer, SLIGHTLY. They are not worth $200 by any means at all. $200 more for a tiny bit of a sound change? Not worth it man, the Q701 is one of the best values out there while the K712 and Anniversary aren't. I have some K712 pads on hand I got from AKG and they honestly make little difference at all. They are a tiny bit more comfortable and they don't change the sound much. They do but I'll say it again, it's very slight, like barely anything.
> 
> ...


 
 I've heard all of the K7xx line side by side and I thought the K712 was more of a moderate and obvious change from the Q701 personally. It is a bit overpriced compared to the Q701 though, I think it should drop to something around $300 and it would be a more reasonable buy.
  
 Minor things in the sound and comfort can easily make or break a headphone for some people. The changes made to the K712 may be worth it to some people over the Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Certainly is for me. The Q701 was more of a one trick pony for me (competitive gaming), while the Annie/K712 have an all around signature that I enjoy for all purposes. And yes, I think they'd be worth it for $300. $375 is steep.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> Certainly is for me. The Q701 was more of a one trick pony for me (competitive gaming), while the Annie/K712 have an all around signature that I enjoy for all purposes. And yes, I think they'd be worth it for $300. $375 is steep.


 

 I felt like that with the Q701 to a degree, and older K701s moreso. They do become much more suited for more genres on the right system though. I felt the Annies and K712 were good all-rounders too. I do prefer the K612 to either though because it suits my sound signature preferences more despite being slightly less refined. The K6xx series does respond to amplification a bit differently than the K7xx series, so the best amps for the two series will likely be different and which sounds better can depend on the system. Maybe in time the K712 will drop to $300. At least the K712 isn't quite as overpriced as the HD 6xx since Senn started price-fixing them.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> I felt like that with the Q701 to a degree, and older K701s moreso. They do become much more suited for more genres on the right system though. I felt the Annies and K712 were good all-rounders too. *I do prefer the K612 to either though because it suits my sound signature preferences more despite being slightly less refined.* The K6xx series does respond to amplification a bit differently than the K7xx series, so the best amps for the two series will likely be different and which sounds better can depend on the system. Maybe in time the K712 will drop to $300. At least the K712 isn't quite as overpriced as the HD 6xx since Senn started price-fixing them.




Exactly. It's all a matter of preference, which is why I own the K612 rather than the more refined latter AKGs I owned before.

I tried to bring it to MLE's attention that his preference is being taken into effect by steering people from buying it at the end of its review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even if I do have a preference for the warm and bassier K712, you can't deny that the 712 is more refined than the 612. The Q701/K702 is more refined as well and sells for the same price. The one thing I prefer from the 612 over the Q701 is the sub bass, which extends quite a bit farther down. Otherwise, while I do like the 612 a lot (and you know I do), I would still get a K702 instead which is more refined and has the potential to be upgraded to a makeshift Annie/K712 for a little more.

That's just my opinion and of course people can choose to get a 612 instead and be happy with that. It's a solid headphone, which I rated highly for a reason. I just like the options available out of the K702.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Exactly. *It's all a matter of preference, which is why I own the K612 rather than the more refined latter AKGs I owned before.*
> 
> I tried to bring it to MLE's attention that his preference is being taken into effect by steering people from buying it at the end of its review.






mad lust envy said:


> Even if I do have a preference for the warm and bassier K712, *you can't deny that the 712 is more refined than the 612*. The Q701/K702 is more refined as well and sells for the same price. The one thing I prefer from the 612 over the Q701 is the sub bass, which extends quite a bit farther down. Otherwise, while I do like the 612 a lot (and you know I do), I would still get a K702 instead which is more refined and has the potential to be upgraded to a makeshift Annie/K712 for a little more.
> 
> That's just my opinion and of course people can choose to get a 612 instead and be happy with that. It's a solid headphone, which I rated highly for a reason.




Nobody is denying anything, my friend.

You say people can choose the K612 if that's what they prefer... and that you rate it highly. But... yet... how can they even give it a chance when you basically end the review by telling them to buy something else lol.


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> Exactly. It's all a matter of preference, which is why I own the K612 rather than the more refined latter AKGs I owned before.
> 
> I tried to bring it to MLE's attention that his preference is being taken into effect by steering people from buying it at the end of its review.


 

 More about audio comes down to preference than people sometimes give it credit for. It's like I prefer the K612 with stock pads and you prefer the K612 with K702 pads, just preference. Then there is the whole amplification, listening volume, and genre preferences to take into consideration.
  
 Something interesting I noticed with amplification. I got my K612s treble grain tamed, it was a simple matter of rolling tubes, I can crank the volume far higher(where the volume is uncomfortable) now without being assaulted with treble grain and sibilance as the treble is very smooth now and it's on what I consider my most neutral and transparent tubes with the most well-extended treble. What's interesting not all my headphones respond the same to the tubes, my DT 990s treble became peakier and harsher on the same tubes. The K612 sounded harsher in the treble on the tubes the DT 990 was silky smooth in the highs.


----------



## Evshrug

Chico helped point out mine, which were used near-mint.

IMO the Q isn't a one trick pony, I believe Mad used to have it listed as one of his top-5 all/rounders for a while before the X1 and MA900. And though the mids of the MA900 were nice (& well prominent in front of the treble and sub-bass), IMO that was more of a gaming-only headphone (like the AD700, but of a darker, kinda warmer character).

I dunno, I just haven't been " Done wrong" yet by an AKG.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Chico helped point out mine, which were used near-mint.
> 
> IMO the Q isn't a one trick pony, I believe Mad used to have it listed as one of his top-5 all/rounders for a while before the X1 and MA900. And though the mids of the MA900 were nice (& well prominent in front of the treble and sub-bass), IMO that was more of a gaming-only headphone (like the AD700, but of a darker, kinda warmer character).
> 
> I dunno, I just haven't been " Done wrong" yet by an AKG.




I love the MA900 for music on the go. I mean it's smooth, it's musical. Not great for reference listening but great for casual one.
The K612 is more technically advanced and better suited for gaming imo but if your gear does not tame the treble sibilance well it's a very fatiguing headphone. 
MA900 and K612 are two very different headphones and both have their place here. They get equal footing from me and obviously get different usage.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> *More about audio comes down to preference than people sometimes give it credit for*. It's like I prefer the K612 with stock pads and you prefer the K612 with K702 pads, just preference. Then there is the whole amplification, listening volume, and genre preferences to take into consideration.




Very true... and is my whole point...

MLE has no idea how much of an influence his preference is on people... and the newbies (majority of visitors) have no idea how much preference needs to be taken into effect in what they read on headfi. They find this thread as any other gamer does, by googling "best gaming headphone."


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> I love the MA900 for music on the go. I mean it's smooth, it's musical. Not great for reference listening but great for casual one.
> The K612 is more technically advanced and better suited for gaming imo but if your gear does not tame the treble sibilance well it's a very fatiguing headphone.
> MA900 and K612 are two very different headphones and both have their place here. They get equal footing from me and obviously get different usage.


 
 I had issues with fatigue on the MA900 oddly on everything I plugged it into, some odd grain in the upper mids and lower treble that really wore me out and it became worse the more often I used the headphone, it's why I ultimately gave the headphone away. The only time the K612 was fatiguing to me was on the amps or tubes it didn't like. I have heard other people complain fatigue on the MA900 too. Quite interesting how different headphones effect different people.


change is good said:


> Very true... and is my whole point...
> 
> MLE has no idea how much of an influence his preference is on people... and the newbies (majority of visitors) have no idea how much preference needs to be taken into effect in what they read on headfi. They find this thread as any other gamer does, by googling "best gaming headphone."


 
  
 That is true. It's why there is so much debate about what flagship headphones to get. Some will swear by a headphone and others will absolutely hate the same headphone on the same setup. Every reviewer has their biases, no matter how unbiased they try to be. The problem with getting into high-end audio is that it's so much about trail and error finding what you want, this is basically what we call the audiophile journey. Sometimes experiencing something new in audio may completely shatter your long-held beliefs about something and go against what you read about something or even previous experience with something.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

People always want comparisons. Now if i make comparisons and have a bias towards one, it will come off as the other one not being worth listening to.

Perhaps I'll remove comparisons and just stick to just reviewing the headphones, without any other mention to other headphones. Then you guys can decide what you prefer. I'll leave my choice for my recommendations list and that's it.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> I had issues with fatigue on the MA900 oddly on everything I plugged it into, some odd grain in the upper mids and lower treble that really wore me out and it became worse the more often I used the headphone, it's why I ultimately gave the headphone away. The only time the K612 was fatiguing to me was on the amps or tubes it didn't like. I have heard other people complain fatigue on the MA900 too. Quite interesting how different headphones effect different people.
> 
> That is true. It's why there is so much debate about what flagship headphones to get. Some will swear by a headphone and others will absolutely hate the same headphone on the same setup. Every reviewer has their biases, no matter how unbiased they try to be. The problem with getting into high-end audio is that it's so much about trail and error finding what you want, this is basically what we call the audiophile journey. Sometimes experiencing something new in audio may completely shatter your long-held beliefs about something and go against what you read about something or even previous experience with something.




It's funny as I don't find MA900 nearly as fatiguing as K612.
But I am sensitive to sibilance. Both perform very well to my ears. Different signatures. But K612 has more sibilance than MA900. Everything else is satisfactory and up, just that...
But as people say, nearly all neutral dynamic headphones have a bit of a harshness or sibilance in the treble though I'd much prefer the former to the latter.
Plus, I am sensitive to it so...


----------



## Change is Good

Comparisons and preference is one thing, ending the review by stating to go for the latter, instead, is another.

 It basically kills the whole point of you saying its a great headphone. Which, as a result, kills the whole point of me sending it in. Why bother sending in a headphone I know people will love as much as the MA900 and X1 (if not better) if you're just going to steer people away from it because YOU PREFER the latter.

 I mean, did you do so in the MA900 and X1 reviews? As awesome as those headphones are, did you end their reviews in that same similar fashion. If I can recall, the K612 is more technically refined than those two. Yet, it doesn't get the same love... and won't because of how specific you are in telling people to go for the latter. You may as well put that at the end of every review from now on.

 But you're right, damned if you do and damned if you don't. This is your thread... and the way you review really is changing I guess...

 Remember... no beef. I'm just stating my opinion...
  
 You know what? I apologize... I'm not going to criticize you for how you review things. You put too much work and dedication for anyone as myself to do so. This is just like any other review site, visitors must read at their own risk...


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> It's funny as I don't find MA900 nearly as fatiguing as K612.
> But I am sensitive to sibilance. Both perform very well to my ears. Different signatures. But K612 has more sibilance than MA900. Everything else is satisfactory and up, just that...
> But as people say, nearly all neutral dynamic headphones have a bit of a harshness or sibilance in the treble though I'd much prefer the former to the latter.
> Plus, I am sensitive to it so...


 

 It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.




FWIW, my K612 pairs well with the Asgard 2 and its natural warmth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wrote the MA900 and X1 reviews before I added these new sections. Anyways, since I'm heavily biased towards the K712/Annie I'll go ahead and remove any mention of any other headphone in every review, and just stick to reviewing the headphone, and when people ask me what I would choose, I'll let them come up with their own conclusions.


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> FWIW, my K612 pairs well with the Asgard 2 and its natural warmth.


 

 They do pair well with warmth and/or smoothness. I need to try them on the Asgard 2 sometime. My current tubes on my EF2A give the K612 a crystalline, clean, and smooth nature. My other tubes that I like with them, give them a more lush, warm, and musical sound. I do want to upgrade my amp sometime, no hurry though as I am quite satisfied with the K612 and my amp pairing for my main headphone. Will likely upgrade my dac first as my main dac has some slight harshness to it but I use it because of it's warmth and body.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I wrote the MA900 and X1 reviews before I added these new sections. Anyways, since I'm heavily biased towards the K712/Annie I'll go ahead and remove any mention of any other headphone in every review, and just stick to reviewing the headphone, and when people ask me what I would choose, I'll let them come up with their own conclusions.




Honestly, because of that heavy bias, I predicted this the moment Ev decided to send his K712 in at the same time. If the K612 would have arrived alone, like it was supposes to the first time I sent it, the review would have been much less biased... and more people would be inclined to get them. 

Instead, everyone is just jumping on the K712 and overlooking the K612. The whole point of me sending it in was so it would stop being overlooked like it is. Didn't work, I guess lol


----------



## BigEarsMan

Hi. Need a closed headphone with decent - good isolation and works well with dolby headphone. Would you guys say the alpha dog meets these requirements? What else would be recommended. 
  
 Max budget is the price of the alpha dogs.


----------



## conquerator2

alpha Dogs is the best you can get for that price...


----------



## appsmarsterx

conquerator2 said:


> I love the MA900 for music on the go. I mean it's smooth, it's musical. Not great for reference listening but great for casual one.
> The K612 is more technically advanced and better suited for gaming imo but if your gear does not tame the treble sibilance well it's a very fatiguing headphone.
> MA900 and K612 are two very different headphones and both have their place here. They get equal footing from me and obviously get different usage.


 
  
 I found MA900 is the more fatiguing comparing with 612pro. even on the E17, I don't find it sibilance at all. 612pro treble is more smooth and detailed comparing with MA900, to me, 612pro completely outclassed MA900 now in all aspects. considering the current price tag, I think 612pro clearly deserve more attention.


----------



## AxelCloris

bigearsman said:


> Hi. Need a closed headphone with decent - good isolation and works well with dolby headphone. Would you guys say the alpha dog meets these requirements? What else would be recommended.
> 
> Max budget is the price of the alpha dogs.


 
  
 A second vote here for the Alpha Dogs. Some people love the S-Logic aspect of Ultrasone headphones, you can get a Pro 900 in that price range as well. And MLE has a review of them on the first page. It's a pretty fun can, but the S-Logic is polarizing; either you love it or hate it. The Alphas are incredible closed cans and you'll be happy with them as long as you're ok with a wait to get them. They're definitely worth the wait, that's for sure.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> A second vote here for the Alpha Dogs. Some people love the S-Logic aspect of Ultrasone headphones, you can get a Pro 900 in that price range as well. And MLE has a review of them on the first page. It's a pretty fun can, but the S-Logic is polarizing; either you love it or hate it. The Alphas are incredible closed cans and you'll be happy with them as long as you're ok with a wait to get them. They're definitely worth the wait, that's for sure.




God no please not the 900... It's a good gaming headphone but it's 'polarizing' treble still give me nightmares.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
> 
> People always want comparisons. Now if i make comparisons and have a bias towards one, it will come off as the other one not being worth listening to.



MLE,
I wouldn't worry too much about it... I mean, we get your opinion which is pretty consistent, and several thread regulars (where's Chico been lately?) who share other tastes on balance. I think it's pretty easy to agree that a headphone is overall GOOD or unrefined, beyond that though everyone has a personal taste that will make "favourites."

Everyone,
It's like kman1211 said, everyone is going to have their own audiophile journey. I have people come to my electronics store and often ask what headphones to buy, and I always point out a few mid-Fi options in the $100-$200 range that will set a baseline for GOOD (and relatively refined) sound that won't break the bank. I tell them that this is a good price range to play in, to learn what their preferences are. And then get an amp and stuff to fill out their system. Don't splash big right away, because it's easy to misjudge what you prefer on your first upgrade away from earbuds (cuz you need almost everything improved).

Mad,
your tonal preference is mostly for a gentle V-shaped frequency curve, and you like a little extra (but finely done) bass to kick it up a notch (not too much to give you a headache), but sometimes you'll be surprised by a unique character and really like it (hd650, MA900). That's a pretty good sign of knowing-yourself with a dash of open-mindedness IMO, though I know your ultimate holy grail would be Denon D7000 sound with velour Earpad comfort, that can easily be worn while laying in bed  I say that you are easy enough to figure out your preferences, you also state pros and cons, and that most adults will be able to take what they need from your review. The few people who can't analyze for themselves and look for someone else's idea of "the best," well... they're gonna need to make mistakes anyway to learn. Meanwhile, a wise man once told me that you can't help including subjective opinion in reviews, and honestly I think it's more interesting to read when you hear/see one aspect you really like or dislike. It gets the conversation and debate going, keeps the thread lively.





kman1211 said:


> It is kind of weird. I have noticed that seems to be a drawback with neutral dynamic headphones, system matching is vital with anything neutral. I am sensitive to harsh sibilance. Some sibilance bothers me, other types of sibilance doesn't. It's kind of weird. When a headphone bothers me sonically it causes my ears to clog up and eventual ear pain some reason leading to temporary channel imbalances(where the center is behind my right or left ear, usually right) in my hearing which is incredibly annoying. The K612 is one of the only headphones I owned that doesn't do that to me.



I have a friend like that at work. He's really big into playing CS:GO, but I had to take great care in picking a headphone to suggest to him because most of the (gamer) headsets he'd tried so far had the exact same sibilance effect on him, and his ears would clog up with extra earwax (a sign of the body trying to protect from hearing damage). CS:GO is like his fav game, but it's VERY treble harsh (& surprisingly not great with sound positioning IMO), so I recommended darker headphones (IMO the MA900 as well as the usual Sennheisers are "polite"). It'll be interesting to hear the K612 soon.





change is good said:


> Honestly, because of that heavy bias, I predicted this the moment Ev decided to send his K712 in at the same time. If the K612 would have arrived alone, like it was supposes to the first time I sent it, the review would have been much less biased... and more people would be inclined to get them.
> 
> Instead, everyone is just jumping on the K712 and overlooking the K612. The whole point of me sending it in was so it would stop being overlooked like it is. Didn't work, I guess lol




You know, I hear baby powder is good to help prevent getting a wedgie 
Jk, love ya dude. Also, I think you originally pitched the idea to me of sending both (like back in October or something?) and when the cat was outta the bag, Mad and others were much more excited to hear the K612, while the K712 had a much more lukewarm "well you can send it if you really want..."

But anyway, there's nothing to fret about. We've seen like three people go "OOOH, New hotness, THIS is the affordable 'best' headphone," but tons of people lurk this thread and make up their own budget/mind. See my paragraph above about how I recommend headphones to others... The K612 is one of several very good options, pretty upscale, and I haven't heard it yet to know if I'd prefer it BUT it is a generally very strong headphone on paper since it is balanced and neutral, maybe not the loudest off of an iPod but should be very clean and well-dampened while also encouraging users to explore the other benefits of amping... maybe they occasionally want a _bit_ more volume and then OH WAIT I HEAR BONUS BENEFITS! And the learning lightbulb comes on.

So yeah, I'd say the K612 fills the void in the $150-199 price spot created when the MA900 was discontinued and the price hiked up, and a satisfying second or even first headphone upgrade. I'm still stoked to hear it! But don't take it personally if others prefer something else o_O


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> I have a friend like that at work. He's really big into playing CS:GO, but I had to take great care in picking a headphone to suggest to him because most of the (gamer) headsets he'd tried so far had the exact same sibilance effect on him, and his ears would clog up with extra earwax (a sign of the body trying to protect from hearing damage). CS:GO is like his fav game, but it's VERY treble harsh (& surprisingly not great with sound positioning IMO), so I recommended darker headphones (IMO the MA900 as well as the usual Sennheisers are "polite"). It'll be interesting to hear the K612 soon.


 
  
 I had some issues with the MA900 in the long run sadly. Senns are generally fine in terms of not causing me problems, I don't like many Senns though. The HD 6xx family are some of the only Senns I like. I have a previous generation of the the HD 600/650 coming in here soon, the HD 545, curious how similar it sounds. The K612 isn't what I consider a polite headphone as it's quite revealing, it's just non-fatiguing to me. I can usually tell within a few days to a week or two if a headphone is going to cause me problems in the long run. I do sometimes want a fun and bright sound though, that's what my MB Quart QP 220 is for.


----------



## Stillhart

As much as it sucks for my wallet, I have to agree that taking the "audiophile journey" is the only way to really tell what you're going to like in the end.  It's all very subjective and it turns out that my personal tastes don't line up with a lot of people's (THX > DH, Q701 > X1, etc).
  
 The great thing is that once you understand your own personal tastes, it's a lot easier to interpret other people's subjective reviews.  I don't know that I'm there 100% yet, as I've only tried 3 headphones in this thread.  But already I'm starting to get an idea of what turns me on (clear, detailed, bright presentation) and I realize it's not actually the same as what MLE likes. 
  
  
 His top 10 lists do me no good.  I have to go through and read the reviews in detail to understand what he's describing to decide for myself.
  
 I realize now that he's been saying that for ages; it's right there at the top of the reviews.  The problem is that I didn't UNDERSTAND it until I took started the journey myself. 
  
 All that said, though, I think a lot of people (myself included) overanalyze this decision.  If you're looking to get into your first audiophile headphone for gaming, just pick a budget and then pick something with a good review.  I kinda like what Nameless did in his guide.  There's a tl;dr right at the top.  I'd add something like that to this guide like:
  
 "If you're here to find the best gaming headphone and just want to cut to the chase, here's a quick summary.  Astro's are overpriced.  If your budget is $150-200, get a K612.  If your budget is $200-300, get an X1.  If your budget is $300-400, get a Q701 (do the bass mod) and a Schiit Vali.  If you'd rather read all the details and make your own decision, read on..."
  
 (You know, obviously you can pick your own recommendations, but you get the idea.)


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> You know, I hear baby powder is good to help prevent getting a wedgie
> Jk, love ya dude. Also, I think you originally pitched the idea to me of sending both (like back in October or something?) and when the cat was outta the bag, Mad and others were much more excited to hear the K612, while the K712 had a much more lukewarm "well you can send it if you really want..."
> 
> But anyway, there's nothing to fret about. We've seen like three people go "OOOH, New hotness, THIS is the affordable 'best' headphone," but tons of people lurk this thread and make up their own budget/mind. See my paragraph above about how I recommend headphones to others... The K612 is one of several very good options, pretty upscale, and I haven't heard it yet to know if I'd prefer it BUT it is a generally very strong headphone on paper since it is balanced and neutral, maybe not the loudest off of an iPod but should be very clean and well-dampened while also encouraging users to explore the other benefits of amping... maybe they occasionally want a _bit_ more volume and then OH WAIT I HEAR BONUS BENEFITS! And the learning lightbulb comes on.
> ...




I was constipated, sorry 

And, that wasn't my issue. The review of the K612, itself, is great. My issue was with how he ended it, at first. It killed the whole point of me sending then in (to put them on the map). His heavy bias towards the end, whether he realized or not, did the exact opposite.

It's fixed, now, so you wont be able to see what I was referring to. 

Thanks for taking our opinions into consideration, Mad. It may seem as if I was defending the K612, and in part I was, but not because you prefer the K712, personally. I was basically just defending the purpose of me sending them in for review. 

If I wasn't, and still don't, make any sense on what I'm trying to say... then I may just have to take a break from trying to contribute.


----------



## Zombie_X

MLE, indeed the K712 and Anniversary are good headphones, but they all come prom the same mold as you know. They all retain the K701 signature but are voiced slightly different. The K701 being neutral, the K702 being Neutral, the Q701 being warmer (slightly), the K712 being warmer yet, and the Anniversary which sounded like a repackaged K712 to me. To me I hear no difference at all between the Anniversary and K712, even on all my amps they sounded the same. 
  
 That being said it all comes down to one preference in tone. The only thing I am arguing is that the K712 and K702 Anniversary are the same thing and I recommend the cheaper option since the Q701 in $178 less than both of the models right now. That's why me and Change (I think) are arguing about them. $200 is a lot of money, especially when these four variations all sound similar. Surely you can understand my stance.
  
 How can the Q701 be a one trick pony? It's pretty good with all genres minus rap or dub-step.. The same could then be said of the other variations.
  
 I'll stand by my statement Head-Fiers, the Q701 is currently the best value out of all those variations currently. Heck the K612 is $143 on Amazon right now, so that's a better value yet. But if you guys are looking for a more refined sound, get the Q701. If you want a warmer and more forgiving tone, get the K612. Both are great choices, and I own both.
  
 If you got agitated or offended I am sorry, but I wanted to voice how they are the same.
  
 Change, I know exactly what you mean. It was basically "The K612 is good but get the K712 instead". It undermines the whole reviews and just tells you to ignore the K612. The K612 may not be as good as the K712, but it's performance is darned close IMO. The sonic tone is also more pleasing to me, but to each their own.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I'm still a fan, you're a great guy regardless of the fact that you happen to have a relevant qualification. Were you my mystery follower on the stream?


 
  
 Old quote! I was not your mystery follower. Once I got some writing done after work I crashed immediately. As for my degree, I specialized in ADR and audio for broadcasting. I spend less time working with speakers and headphones than I do mics and mixers. Then again, I don't currently use my degree.


----------



## blinkstar

So ... no one here has heard the ATH-A900x?


----------



## Evshrug

Crashing happens, hopefully you're enjoying your Easter! After a buoyant Saturday, I'm pretty immobile/lame today, because I feel like I HAVE to ... [edit out Tri-family politics].

Do you happen to know a way to order a Geek Pulse? If not, I'm probably still getting a future Schiit DAC or something with optical input, just so I can try out an upgraded DAC.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Crashing happens, hopefully you're enjoying your Easter! After a buoyant Saturday, I'm pretty immobile/lame today, because I feel like I HAVE to ... [edit out Tri-family politics].
> 
> Do you happen to know a way to order a Geek Pulse? If not, I'm probably still getting a future Schiit DAC or something with optical input, just so I can try out an upgraded DAC.


 
  
 No method of ordering the Pulse just yet. But I would imagine as it gets closer to delivery that they'll open up pre-orders like they did with the Out.


----------



## AvroArrow

evshrug said:


> Avro,
> In addition to why I said earlier the K712 would end up being my long-term keeper (I agree with you on most points), I'd still say the Q701 is a huge value compared to the very good K712 (which is priced on the level of the HD650 and DT990) because even at ~$200, it sounds like it's within that caliber. Especially when you scale up the performance with a desktop amp.
> 
> Both pads feel very similar on my ears (slight nod to the K712 long-term, but putting on cool Q701s after wearing the warmed-up K712 after playing for 4 hours feels like a relief, so mostly it's a heat thing, whichever isn't already warm), also I bought a pair of very nice/cushy baby seatbelt wraps for like $10 which made the Q701 headband more comfy than a bare K712 headband, and finally the Q701 also comes with a second cable (it's like 20' long or something equally ridiculous, if I had soldering skills I'd cut it up into 3 shorter spares). I do think the K712 is a bit smoother even if not plugged into a dedicated desktop-class amp (the E12 is basically a portable desktop amp), but really both k712 and Q701 unlock their full dynamic potential when a desktop-class amp is used.
> ...


 
  
 I agree with you and others that have mentioned that the Q701 is good value compared to the Annie/K712 from a sound/bang-for-buck perspective but for some of us with non-standard sized heads the value is different.  It doesn't matter if the Q701 sounds like unicorns and rainbows or whatever, if I can't wear the headphones for more than 1 minute without it causing major headache inducing discomfort from the bumps and stiff earpads pressing against the upper jaw, they have little to no value for me.  I also tried the very well regarded/reviewed Sennheiser HD650 at the same store... and promptly took them off because of the vice-grip like clamp on my head and upper jaw area that was causing major discomfort.  For me, the Annies felt like soft fluffy clouds compared to the Q701/HD650 torture devices.  The Beyerdynamic  DT880 Premiums were also super comfortable, but I didn't like the V-shaped sound signature.  I can wear my Annies for 4-6 hours continuously with absolutely no discomfort.  They may get a tiny bit warm after 2-3 hours but still super comfortable.
  
 To the others that are arguing about the value of the Q701 (+pads and/or +headband) versus the Annies/K712, not all of us who paid the extra $150 for the Annies/K712 did it for the sound alone.  I did it for the comfort factor.  For me, comfort takes priority over sound.  If I can't wear the headphones for a reasonable amount of time, it doesn't matter if it sounds like liquid rainbow because I won't be wearing them, period.  And after reading the K612 review, looks like those won't be on my radar either because of the comfort factor.  Of course this is a YMMV for those with standard sized heads that can wear the Q701 for extended periods without discomfort.  Just my $0.02 CAD, which is worth like $0.0181 USD at the moment.


----------



## warrenpchi

Leeeeeeeeeeerooooy Jenkinnnnns!


----------



## Change is Good

Gott damnit, Leeroy!


----------



## Evshrug

warrenpchi said:


> Leeeeeeeeeeerooooy Jenkinnnnns!




Bold move.
I still don't understand the matts involved, lol.

(Did something happen while I wasn't looking, or are you just stopping by to say hi/Happy Easter?)


----------



## warrenpchi

Just been away for a little while.


----------



## Edge4o7

I'm currently using Audio Technica AD700s but my cable is messed up I think because only 1 side has been working for a bit. The cord getting messed up is a problem I run in to often for whatever reason (I guess I'm not as careful as I think? :\ I do roll over the cord in my computer chair, or yank it on accident on occasion).
  
 So now I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. Here's some info on what I'm looking for.
  
 My budget is around $170. This is a little flexible but I'd rather not go higher than that unless it's really worth it.
  
 I don't care if they're open or closed. A little isolation is nice to drown out some yelling kids but it's not usually an issue. I don't mind any sound bleed either, these are for use in my room only. I just want good sound, so they'll probably be open.
  
 Detachable cable is a must. As I said before, I tend to screw mine up.
  
 I want them to be over the ear, comfort is a big priority. These are for long gaming sessions. My AD700s kind of hurt my ears after a while because the padding between the drivers and my ear was pretty thin. A headphone with more padding there would be nice.
  
 These headphones will primarily be used for gaming so something that brings out the most in ambient, immersive sounds would be really cool. I rarely play FPS and not competitively, more RPG style games.
  
  
 Any suggestions based on the above info would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## AxelCloris

ATH-M50


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edge4o7 said:


> I'm currently using Audio Technica AD700s but my cable is messed up I think because only 1 side has been working for a bit. The cord getting messed up is a problem I run in to often for whatever reason (I guess I'm not as careful as I think? :\ I do roll over the cord in my computer chair, or yank it on accident on occasion).
> 
> So now I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. Here's some info on what I'm looking for.
> 
> ...




For that price? Maybe an HD558... A detachable cable is what's stopping me from considering more.

I also really like the Skullcandy SLYR. Very immersive, and super comfy once you figure out how to slip your ears inside.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> ATH-M50




The M50X actually improved on the M50. Coinsidering he's not a hardcore FPS player, it actually makes a good choice, and the cable is detachable.

I know people like to mock the M50 hype, but it really is a good performer.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I had to take great care in picking a headphone to suggest to him because most of the (gamer) headsets he'd tried so far had the exact same sibilance effect on him, and his ears would clog up with extra earwax (a sign of the body trying to protect from hearing damage)


 
 Interesting. I didn't know that additional earwax production was the body trying to protect from hearing damage. I had to give my headphones a break after using them heavily for a couple of days because of this. I assumed it was because I was not used to wearing headphones and that they restrict the airflow to the ear (thought maybe the body becomes accustomed to wearing them over time).
  
 I knew my ears are sensitive, but they must be more sensitive than I thought considering how low I have my volume set.


----------



## PETEREK

Just started using my Q701s tonight, and I have to say THEY'RE AWESOME. I play BF4 and the placement these things provide is just great. I upgraded to these from my A40's. I can't wait to get my ModMic 3.0 so I can chat again.


----------



## PETEREK

mad lust envy said:


> The M50X actually improved on the M50. Coinsidering he's not a hardcore FPS player, it actually makes a good choice, and the cable is detachable.
> 
> I know people like to mock the M50 hype, but it really is a good performer.


 
 They're literally the same headphone but with a detachable cable, oh and the price is ~$45 more. If you don't mind the cable not being detachable, go with the original M50.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, no. Tyll has posted graphs of the M50x which has improved on the original M50. The treble spike on the original has been reduced, and the M50 has become more balanced than ever. Just look at Innerfidelity's graphs on both. It's plain as day.


----------



## Evshrug

Edge4o7,
Another thing to consider, there are head-fi'ers (like Zombie_X) who will mod headphones to make the cable detachable for you, or resolder/repair/replace a broken cable.
I used to have AD700s, for some things I liked them very much (lightweight, "out of head" sound, for me the pads might get itchy after a few hours because they're partially on-ear, but I could ignore that and generally found them quite comfortable. What I got next were a cool pair of Q701's, which have thicker Earpads that are completely circumaural, didn't sacrifice any practical amount of "out of head"-ness but gained bass and overall energy and immersion. Our current fav for your budget would be the AKG K612 (reviewed 1st page), but Mad mentioned a few other suggestions and you might be a candidate for a K240 MKII (with closed-back Earcups and replaceable cables).




warrenpchi said:


> Just been away for a little while.



Well, welcome back! Did you find the Holy Grail while you were away?


----------



## Edge4o7

mad lust envy said:


> For that price? Maybe an HD558... A detachable cable is what's stopping me from considering more.
> 
> I also really like the Skullcandy SLYR. Very immersive, and super comfy once you figure out how to slip your ears inside.


 

 How do the HD558s do with Dolby Headphone virtual surround sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd wager as good as the pc360, which was great.


----------



## Edge4o7

Cool. Appreciate the input. I was already looking at the HD558s so having you recommend them helps make the decision. I'll probably end up going with those. Thanks.
  
 Edit: Just noticed you're also from Orlando.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> Interesting. I didn't know that additional earwax production was the body trying to protect from hearing damage. I had to give my headphones a break after using them heavily for a couple of days because of this.



I'm not looking right at your ears nor am I a doctor, but yeah earwax is a thing. We do need some earwax. It could be trying to protect you, or you COULD already be suffering hearing damage, or... some people just make a lot of earwax. *shrug* Regular breaks are ALWAYS a good thing, and if you are concerned, you should ask a doctor. You only get two ears, and hearing damage is permanent. There were two times in my life where I woke up and my ear produced so much wax that they clogged completely (sounded like my ears were waterlogged), the only thing the doctors did FOR ME was use a fat syringe to squeeze water into my ear and flush out the plug of wax... Worked better and safer than Q-tips!

I've been using my Q701 for about two years, honestly I felt less fatigued once I started using amps because the extremes of sound were less likely to distort.


----------



## lttlfld

edge4o7 said:


> Cool. Appreciate the input. I was already looking at the HD558s so having you recommend them helps make the decision. I'll probably end up going with those. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Just noticed you're also from Orlando.


 
I'm not sure just how big of a difference you will notice, but you could also get the HD598s for $150 from fry's: http://www.frys.com/product/7821729


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I'm not looking right at your ears nor am I a doctor, but yeah earwax is a thing. We do need some earwax. It could be trying to protect you, or you COULD already be suffering hearing damage, or... some people just make a lot of earwax. *shrug* Regular breaks are ALWAYS a good thing, and if you are concerned, you should ask a doctor. You only get two ears, and hearing damage is permanent. There were two times in my life where I woke up and my ear produced so much wax that they clogged completely (sounded like my ears were waterlogged), the only thing the doctors did FOR ME was use a fat syringe to squeeze water into my ear and flush out the plug of wax... Worked better and safer than Q-tips!
> 
> I've been using my Q701 for about two years, honestly I felt less fatigued once I started using amps because the extremes of sound were less likely to distort.


 
 I'm certainly not going to endanger my hearing, so I'll listen to what my body is telling me and use headphones in moderation. I think, because my ears are particularly sensitive, that prolonged use irritates them. I also had (the same time I had the earwax problem) the same kind of sensation as when you swallow (ears kind of pop). I've not used them for an extended period since, but I'll be careful when I use them in future 
  
 Side note: Gig went well


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm certainly not going to endanger my hearing, so I'll listen to what my body is telling me and use headphones in moderation. I think, because my ears are particularly sensitive, that prolonged use irritates them. I also had (the same time I had the earwax problem) the same kind of sensation as when you swallow (ears kind of pop). I've not used them for an extended period since, but I'll be careful when I use them in future
> 
> Side note: Gig went well


 

 I've taken breaks from headphones myself, especially when I had headphones that fatigued me. I got the popping issue myself. personally don't listen to music loud, rather just moderate and lower volumes most of the time, I've always had sensitive hearing and I think most headphones are a bit irritating sonically for extended use. I wonder if it has to do with the fact I had tubes in my ears when I was young and was prone to ear infections.


----------



## benbenkr

peterek said:


> They're literally the same headphone but with a detachable cable, oh and the price is ~$45 more. If you don't mind the cable not being detachable, go with the original M50.


 
  
 Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


> Umm, no. Tyll has posted graphs of the M50x which has improved on the original M50. The treble spike on the original has been reduced, and the M50 has become more balanced than ever. Just look at Innerfidelity's graphs on both. It's plain as day.




  
 In addition to sounding more balanced, the M50x also has significantly less clamping pressure out of the box. So really, unless you've got a really big noggin, the stretch mod isn't really needed anymore.
  
  


lttlfld said:


> I'm not sure just how big of a difference you will notice, but you could also get the HD598s for $150 from fry's: http://www.frys.com/product/7821729


 
  
 HD558 > HD598 any day, for the fun factor at least. The HD598 is like a AD700 with just more refined mids.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

An M50 without a need for the stretch mod? Sweet.

And yes, I prefer the 558 over the 598 due to a more immersive, more engaging tonality. The 598 is more detailed, but less musical.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> I've taken breaks from headphones myself, especially when I had headphones that fatigued me. I got the popping issue myself. personally don't listen to music loud, rather just moderate and lower volumes most of the time, I've always had sensitive hearing and I think most headphones are a bit irritating sonically for extended use. I wonder if it has to do with the fact I had tubes in my ears when I was young and was prone to ear infections.


 
 I've never been prone to excess earwax or ear infections myself. I have however had problems with using headphones.
  
 When I've worn ear buds in the past, my ears have become sore and irritated very quickly. I cannot wear on ear headphones either as they give me a lot of pain due to resting on the cartilage. I've never tried in ear phones, so cannot comment there, but so far, circumaural have given me the least amount of trouble. I did wear them for most of the day for two days running, which was probably a bit too much for my already sensitive (or wimpy lol) ears.
  
 I'm pretty sensitive around the jaw too. I'd like to get some softer pads for my current headphones but haven't got around to it yet.


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> An M50 without a need for the stretch mod? Sweet.
> 
> And yes, I prefer the 558 over the 598 due to a more immersive, more engaging tonality. The 598 is more detailed, but less musical.


 
  
 Yup yup! Which is why I'm so inclined to bring the M50x around on plane rides these days. It's not exactly portable, but they're pretty darn good to pass up playing on the Vita on long plane rides. The removable cable, brilliant even if it uses a locking mechanism.


----------



## DJDREEM

Would it be worth going from the AD700 to the Q701 or K702 purely for games? I play mostly open world games.


----------



## Razz7

Hi guys.. I'm back again looking for another set of headphones, I bought the AKG Q701, Good sound but I cannot stand the comfort of them for me, Last night I believe my headphones induced a headache on me, The clamp pressure on my jaw, To the bumps on the headband just kills me, Is there any AKG's amazing for gaming like the Q701's soundstage etc? I looked at the Sennheiser HD 700's how are they compared to the AKG Q701?, What about the 598's, HD 650's etc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K712 Pro. No headband bumps, and memory foam pads which don't add the same kind of pressure to the jaw. That is your best bet. Note, that almost every over ear headphone will induce some pressure to the jaw. Not many that I have found where it isn't a little uncofmortable, except the K712 Pro/Annie, MA900, and the Slyr (as far as the most recent ones) which has stupid soft velours. Your other bet is something on ear, which gets rid of jaw discomfort for pinched ears. YMMV.


----------



## Razz7

Thanks man I'll check them out.


----------



## thecalculator

I'd like to thank everyone on here for helping me pick out my latest headphones. K712 pros w/ X-Fi Titanium HD sound card. Should be arriving in a week or so. -=). Been using the Turtle Beach Earforce X11's w/ Earforce DSS for 3^ years now.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

thecalculator said:


> I'd like to thank everyone on here for helping me pick out my latest headphones. K712 pros w/ X-Fi Titanium HD sound card. Should be arriving in a week or so. -=). Been using the Turtle Beach Earforce X11's w/ Earforce DSS for 3^ years now.


 
 Don't mention it. Happy to help.


Spoiler: It was all me... honest!









 Couldn't pass that one up


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> I'm not sure just how big of a difference you will notice, but you could also get the HD598s for $150 from fry's: http://www.frys.com/product/7821729


 
  
 I would highly recommend you stay away from Fry's unless it's the most amazing deal in all of existence... and even then think twice.  They have the worst customer service of any retail store I've ever been in.  I kept going back because they have such great prices, but every time they **** up or piss me off... or both.  It's not worth the headaches.
  
 Razz, sorry the Q701 didn't work out for you.  A few more options if you like the sound:  1 - Get the K712 pads to replace the stock ones.  This should do wonders for the sound and the comfort.  2 - Get a baby seat belt pad to cover the bumps.  Ev and others have done this and speak highly of it.  For me, the bump discomfort has gone away... I think they must have broken in or something.


----------



## Evshrug

Luckily, I don't have a Fry's nearby to tempt me. Your deal on those Recon3D's was SICK! Did you have problems with that transaction?


----------



## conquerator2

Aight K612 + 702 pads = added warmth.
I did some A/B today and this is what the 702 pads do:
- reduce sibilance significantly 
- reduce energy in upper mids and treble
- increase bass quantity
- maybe adds a little bit of width
- enhance comfort

So while I appreciate the sibilance tone down and increased comfort, I don't like everything else. Tis obviously a matter of preference 

So I prefer the tonal balance of the stocks (minus sibilance and comfort)

Still it's a funny thing, how pads can essentially make two headphones out of one, definitely a plus.


----------



## mmencius

mad lust envy said:


> Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
> 
> People always want comparisons. Now if i make comparisons and have a bias towards one, it will come off as the other one not being worth listening to.
> 
> Perhaps I'll remove comparisons and just stick to just reviewing the headphones, without any other mention to other headphones. Then you guys can decide what you prefer. I'll leave my choice for my recommendations list and that's it.


 
 I'd just like to say that I *highly* appreciate the comparisons you make between similar headphones (eg Senn 558 has more tonality than 598, less refined but more musical; or K712 has more warmth and bass than the Q701; or many similar things you've said). That's really the reason why this thread is so useful and enlightening, and much better than a standard "top 10" or "here are some numbers" list, where I read someone else's headphones that he/she likes (and which he prefers over others), but am completely unable to guess (which is what I want to do rather than buying everything) what *I* might prefer.
  
 I would keep it up . I like your descriptive and detailed comparisons, *and* agree with your insistence that readers of the guide should not compare numerical scores of different headphones (and should instead use each score to judge a headphone on its own basis).
  
 If someone doesn't realize that your opinion is your opinion is your opinion is used when making comparisons, then I will print out all 1500 pages of this thread, bind it in a book, and beat them with it.


----------



## AvroArrow

razz7 said:


> Hi guys.. I'm back again looking for another set of headphones, I bought the AKG Q701, Good sound but I cannot stand the comfort of them for me, Last night I believe my headphones induced a headache on me, The clamp pressure on my jaw, To the bumps on the headband just kills me, Is there any AKG's amazing for gaming like the Q701's soundstage etc? I looked at the Sennheiser HD 700's how are they compared to the AKG Q701?, What about the 598's, HD 650's etc?


 
  
 And that is *exactly* why I got the K702 Annies instead of the Q701.  I had the same discomfort issue with the Q701, but fortunately I was able to try them at a store so I didn't have to pay for the privilege of regretting that purchase.  If you like the Q701 sound then look for the K712pro or K702 65th Anniversary, whichever you can find cheaper.  It's a night and day comfort difference.  The Sennheiser HD598 are also very comfy, but the sound is different, not as good as the Annies IMHO.  The HD650 will clamp even harder than the Q701 on your jaws so that's probably not a good pick either.  I haven't tried the HD700 so I can't comment on that.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Luckily, I don't have a Fry's nearby to tempt me. Your deal on those Recon3D's was SICK! Did you have problems with that transaction?


 
  
 I was actually there looking fro about three other things and struck out.  Then I caught sight of the Recon out of the corner of my eye as I was walking towards the exit.  They were in a completely random section and I am 100% certain I wouln't have been able to find them if I'd been looking for them.
  
 Amusingly, the entire time I was checking out, I kept assuming it was too good to be true.  Either this wasn't the Recon you guys were talking about or they were defective or the price was just mismarked, etc.  I absolutely don't trust them at all.
  
 The last time I went to Fry's I ordered an SD card online for in-store pickup.  I waited for the email that said it was ready.  Then I went to the front desk and proceeded to stand around for ten minutes while three different people were trying to figure out where it was, making phone calls, diggin through stack of papers, etc.  I came to my senses and realized that I could have literally just walked to the back of the store and grabbed one quicker than this.  So I left and made sure to let them know what I thought about their "service".  God I hate those guys...


----------



## AxelCloris

I've only been inside one of the Fry's outside Chicago and my experience was about the same as every other big box retailer. Two employees said hi, the rest ignored me, I wandered for about 3-4 minutes until I found what I was looking for, purchased it and left. Since there aren't any in Cincinnati then I guess I lucked out. When I want one of their awesome in-store only sales I have a buddy in Naperville pick it up for me or try and price match locally. Guess I've lucked out when shopping there the few times I have.
  
 And I agree with Evshrug, the price people paid for the Recon3D USB is nuts. I've been enjoying mine while playing ESO lately. Mmm, 5.1 high fantasy surround sound.


----------



## Stillhart

I got mine on clearance for $5.  Picked up both of the ones they had on hand.  One is on my Xbone and the other is at work as a portable dac/amp to improve teh sound on my ****ty Dell laptop.  Once I get a replacement (GO 720?), I'll probably pass my $5 Recon off to the community here.  Either that or save it for my eventual PS4...


----------



## Sam21

you guys should try the Creative Play! it has CMSS-3D ....


----------



## AxelCloris

I vote sell off the Recon3D USB and put that money towards a set of HE90. You won't regret it.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I vote sell off the Recon3D USB and put that money towards a set of HE90. You won't regret it.


 
  
 Yes, I'll listen to it through my ****ty Dell laptop.  It'll be perfect!


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Yes, I'll listen to it through my ****ty Dell laptop.  It'll be perfect!


 
  
 Nah, if you shell out for the HE90, I'd at least donate my Dragonfly to the cause.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Nah, if you shell out for the HE90, I'd at least donate my Dragonfly to the cause.


 
  
 Well I *was* saving up for a Tesla, but if you're donating the Dragonfly...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Well I *was* saving up for a Tesla, but if you're donating the Dragonfly...


 
  
 Ooooh, which Tesla? I'm enjoying mine more than I did my HD650.
  
 *edit* Unless you mean the car company. Which is also awesome.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Ooooh, which Tesla? I'm enjoying mine more than I did my HD650.
> 
> *edit* Unless you mean the car company. Which is also awesome.


 
  
 I was talking about the $120k car.  It's... a long-term plan...  >.>


----------



## Evshrug

mmencius said:


> If someone doesn't realize that your opinion is your opinion is your opinion is used when making comparisons, then I will print out all 1500 pages of this thread, bind it in a book, and beat them with it.



I like this man, can you come to my store and beat some sense into my customers?
Different headphones will make sense to different people.





sam21 said:


> you guys should try the Creative Play! it has CMSS-3D ....



But does it process 5.1 Dolby from consoles, like the Recon3D USB does?
And... will it blend?




stillhart said:


> Well I *was* saving up for a Tesla, but if you're donating the Dragonfly...



My grandfather is accepting delivery of his Tesla Model S on Wednesday. My thought that he is crazy is overshadowed by how cool it will be to see a tesla in person, maybe even try it out. He asked me to help him set it up.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Ooooh, which Tesla? I'm enjoying mine more than I did my HD650.
> 
> *edit* Unless you mean the car company. Which is also awesome.



Oh, I thought he WAS talking about the car company. You COULD get one at a (mere) $80 for a baseline model.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> My grandfather is accepting delivery of his Tesla Model S on Wednesday. My thought that he is crazy is overshadowed by how cool it will be to see a tesla in person, maybe even try it out. He asked me to help him set it up.


 
  
 They're generally rated as one of the best cars of all time.  The highway safety institute had to use a forklift to roll-test the car because they couldn't get it to roll on purpose; it's off the charts for safety.  It's also got a 3 second 0-60 time.  And it's gorgeous.  And it uses no gasoline.
  
 There's nothing crazy about wanting that car.
  
 I was being facetious about saving up for a Model S, but they are planning on releasing a "more affordable" model in the next few years (Think $50k range).  I'm aiming for that one.


----------



## Change is Good

Hey, I already pointed out what my issue was numerous times... and it was not the comparisons. He was the one that went to the extreme and removed them. **shrugs**

So... beat me baby... beat me...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> They're generally rated as one of the best cars of all time.  The highway safety institute had to use a forklift to roll-test the car because they couldn't get it to roll on purpose; it's off the charts for safety.  It's also got a 3 second 0-60 time.  And it's gorgeous.  And it uses no gasoline.
> 
> There's nothing crazy about wanting that car.
> 
> I was being facetious about saving up for a Model S, but they are planning on releasing a "more affordable" model in the next few years (Think $50k range).  I'm aiming for that one.


 
  
 Honestly something like a 3 second 0-60 is not off the charts in terms of electric engines. Since they have the charge pre-generated, the second you open the taps it sends that power directly to the drive system. As electric vehicles become more common, you'll see that time fairly regularly assuming the designers don't build the car our of lead and concrete. That said, I did enjoy the drive in a Tesla Roadster when a friend let me take his for a spin. I wasn't used to the acceleration of an electric car and it had me stunned for a moment. This is coming from my daily drive, a Ford Focus ZX3. So sad the Tesla/Lotus deal came to an end; it was a gorgeous mind in a gorgeous body. I'm looking forward to the future $40-50k Tesla.
  
 What I really want is for Fiat to stop procrastinating and bring over the Alfa Romeo MiTo and their Punto and Panda models to America.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So... beat me baby... beat me...


 
  
 I need an adult!


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> So... beat me baby... beat me...


 
  


axelcloris said:


> I need an adult!


----------



## Razz7

avroarrow said:


> And that is *exactly* why I got the K702 Annies instead of the Q701.  I had the same discomfort issue with the Q701, but fortunately I was able to try them at a store so I didn't have to pay for the privilege of regretting that purchase.  If you like the Q701 sound then look for the K712pro or K702 65th Anniversary, whichever you can find cheaper.  It's a night and day comfort difference.  The Sennheiser HD598 are also very comfy, but the sound is different, not as good as the Annies IMHO.  The HD650 will clamp even harder than the Q701 on your jaws so that's probably not a good pick either.  I haven't tried the HD700 so I can't comment on that.




Ordered the k712's to try them out today, not sure what to do if these give me pain.


----------



## Change is Good

razz7 said:


> Ordered the k712's to try them out today, not sure what to do if these give me pain.


 
  
 Have no worries. You bought the ones with the best comfort out of the AKG x7xx series...


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Aight K612 + 702 pads = added warmth.
> I did some A/B today and this is what the 702 pads do:
> - reduce sibilance significantly
> - reduce energy in upper mids and treble
> ...




Yes, this is definitely the difference I hear with the pad switch... and there definitely is a slight increase in width...

Unlike you, however, my tonal preference leans to liking this result over stock.

It truly is wonderful (as you mention) that you can get two different headphones with just the switch of the pads, with both being awesome in their own way. Big ups to AKG to be able to pull that off with their open line up, as not many headphones have a positive effect from pad switching.


----------



## PETEREK

Q701 + ModMic 3.0
  
 The twisted cable is only temporary. I plan on making a 4-wire cable and converting the Q701's connector to a 4-pin xlr rather than it's 3-pin it has now, and then finding the connector the ModMic uses to connect to it's cable and install one directly to the headphone. It looks a little messy the way it is now.


----------



## B9Scrambler

Looking good!


----------



## kmetek

so which for overall use PS3/PS4 about 120$ range?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Antlion should consider making a Modmic like Boompro that would surpass V-moda by also bundling in adapters that would allow the mic to be used with AKG headphones, Sennheisers, etc. For example: 2.5mm, 3.5mm, mini XLR adapters, all being skinny so they fit all types of recessed inputs.

Something like a Modmic cable edition for headphones with detachable cables.


----------



## PETEREK

mad lust envy said:


> Antlion should consider making a Modmic like Boompro that would surpass V-moda by also bundling in adapters that would allow the mic to be used with AKG headphones, Sennheisers, etc. For example: 2.5mm, 3.5mm, mini XLR adapters, all being skinny so they fit all types of recessed inputs.
> 
> Something like a Modmic cable edition for headphones with detachable cables.


 
 Email them about it, they seem like a pretty small company at the moment. They haven't really even established what their demand is yet as far as I can tell. Something like this would bring in a lot of profit and could make the company huge if they do it right.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Antlion should consider making a Modmic like Boompro that would surpass V-moda by also bundling in adapters that would allow the mic to be used with AKG headphones, Sennheisers, etc. For example: 2.5mm, 3.5mm, mini XLR adapters, all being skinny so they fit all types of recessed inputs.
> 
> Something like a Modmic cable edition for headphones with detachable cables.


 
 I'd love that! QUICK everyone show your support for this idea, then send an email to Antlion pointing to this thread to show what a good idea it is.


----------



## pwoznic

Hi all, I just joined this forum after browsing this thread for a few days. The amount of information is absolutely amazing! 
  
 I am looking for a wireless solution for my 360 (I have the new 360 E model that MS decided to not have an optical out grr)... but because of this limitation, I think I can take advantage of the turtle beach HDAC (which takes 1 HDMI input and outputs HDMI and optical) or a similar adapter from Amazon.
  
 So before reading this forum, I was looking at the Tritton Warhead, A50, PLYR1 (leaning towards this one), but then I saw the option about getting the older a40s with the 5.8 wireless mixer, which I could then use with any wired headset.
  
 I figured if I'm gaming and don't care about talking to other players, I do have Klipsch X10s, which I love for my ipod esp when walking... but there may be times where I want to go all out and have nice big cans... but I also really like the option of going wireless... so now I am torn between getting either the PLYR1 or picking up the A40 with wireless 5.8 and then go from there (e.g. if I don't like the a40, sell just the cans and replace with some really high-end cans).
  
 Anyway, this thread has a lot to browse, so I will continue to do so, otherwise, I am hoping for some advice regarding whether I should go the PLYR1 route or the wireless 5.8 route (adding my own wired to it if I don't like the A40 cans). I figured if I go the 5.8 route and eventually get some really high-end cans, then I can use them for PC audio too.... but my main reason for the latest interest is to have a wireless audio solution for my 360.. but because of no optical out on the new model, I wonder if I am going to suffer any quality issues since I would have to get the HDMI/optical splitter/converter/whatever.
  
 My budget is very flexible, as I do not mind investing in something that is going to get me lots of use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you can splurge for the 5.8, I'd heavily advise on getting that, as it will be much more convenient for when you use other headphones. Just make sure to score a battery pack for the RX unit, as that thing eats regular batteries quick quickly, and the battery packs are the only things to charge while inside the RX unit. They last a while longer too.


----------



## Stillhart

I don't think you can use ANY surround processor with your Xbox if you don't have optical out.  That includes the things like PLYR1 and A50.  Can anyone confirm this?
  
 In other news, Schiit has released their optical-in Modi DAC.  I ordered one this morning.  This will let me use it with my PC while still using my sound card to process virtual surround... best of both worlds!  Very exciting!
  
 EDIT - Oh yeah, and I saw this on eBay.  Really decent starter set for people looking to get into this hobby:
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Highend-Gaming-Headset-Setup-Beyer-Dynamic-DT990-Astro-Wireless-Mixamp-Modmic-/331177657253?pt=US_Video_Game_Headsets&hash=item4d1bba03a5
  
 DT990 Pro, Mixamp 5.8 and Antlion modmic for $365 obo.
  
 Further EDIT - Wow, the DT990 Pro is pretty cheap on Amazon right now.... lol


----------



## pwoznic

mad lust envy said:


> If you can splurge for the 5.8, I'd heavily advise on getting that, as it will be much more convenient for when you use other headphones. Just make sure to score a battery pack for the RX unit, as that thing eats regular batteries quick quickly, and the battery packs are the only things to charge while inside the RX unit. They last a while longer too.


 
 Good to know, thanks! I am having trouble finding it new (I just see the non-wireless mixamp version), but I see a decent deal on a used 5.8/a40 that I may just get for now.. Do you think I will have any quality/latency issues by doing the hdmi/optical conversion that I need?


----------



## AxelCloris

pwoznic said:


> I am looking for a wireless solution for my 360 (I have the new 360 E model that MS decided to not have an optical out grr)... but because of this limitation, I think I can take advantage of the turtle beach HDAC (which takes 1 HDMI input and outputs HDMI and optical) or a similar adapter from Amazon.


 
  
 You'll be pleased to know that Microsoft made devices like this ages ago, before the HDMI 360 came out, and they can still be ordered from third party manufacturers. I used one for years with my 360. Can't speak to the TB model specifically as I had the Microsoft official version, but they don't make that and they're hard to find. Third party stuff is cheaper, at least.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Force%C2%AE-Adapter-Xbox-360/dp/B00B08REVY/


----------



## PETEREK

> Originally Posted by *Stillhart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Further EDIT - Wow, the DT990 Pro is pretty cheap on Amazon right now.... lol


 
 I saw them for like $140 on amazon once for the 250 ohm pros. That's an awesome pair of headphones for such little money.


----------



## Evshrug

Holy cow INFO DUMP Still!



stillhart said:


> I don't think you can use ANY surround processor with your Xbox if you don't have optical out.  That includes the things like PLYR1 and A50.  Can anyone confirm this?



*The original Xbox360 didn't have a built-in optical either, the optical was in the wide proprietary Xbox cable. After they added HDMI, what you can do is get a $5 audio dongle that's slim enough to plug in above the HDMI port, and that will have optical and RCA audio out.*




> In other news, Schiit has released their optical-in Modi DAC.  I ordered one this morning.  This will let me use it with my PC while still using my sound card to process virtual surround... best of both worlds!  Very exciting!



*0,0*




> EDIT - Oh yeah, and I saw this on eBay.  Really decent starter set for people looking to get into this hobby:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Highend-Gaming-Headset-Setup-Beyer-Dynamic-DT990-Astro-Wireless-Mixamp-Modmic-/331177657253?pt=US_Video_Game_Headsets&hash=item4d1bba03a5
> 
> ...



Quite a find. Man, you fell into this hobby DEEP!


----------



## pwoznic

My 360 model (newest one "E") cannot use that older adapter. Here's what the back of my console looks like:
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/kb_upload/image/Xbox%20360%20E%20Back.jpg
  
 The adapter I was talking about before (HDMI in then HDMI out/Optical out):
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/audio-converter-parts/ear-force-hd-audio-converter/421
  
 My big TV has optical out (which I assume I could do with the 5.8 mixamp.. but I mostly play my console on my monitor (shared with my computer) which only has HDMI and DVI... still I love my 27" Asus.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Quite a find. Man, you fell into this hobby DEEP!


 
  
 I've been keeping an eye out for a cheap 5.8.  I prefer the THX to the DH and I have DH through my AVR if I want it... but I am really not into all the wires that I have to deal with every time I want to sit down to game... and when I finish gaming.  It's sad, but I may have to give up my $5 Recon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Such a shame that Astro stopped making the 5.8. It's not impossible to find though. I wanna beat myself in the arse for selling my first one. Ah well, all's well that ends well. Just wish i still have a ps3 usb chat cable. That's what I get for buying the 5.8 alone.


----------



## pwoznic

mad lust envy said:


> Such a shame that Astro stopped making the 5.8. It's not impossible to find though. I wanna beat myself in the arse for selling my first one. Ah well, all's well that ends well. Just wish i still have a ps3 usb chat cable. That's what I get for buying the 5.8 alone.


 
 I decided to go ahead and get the a40 w/ 5.8 that I found on amazon in like new condition. I saw some RX and TX separates on ebay, but figured buying the way I did basically gives me the cans for $40 extra.


----------



## martin vegas

pwoznic said:


> I decided to go ahead and get the a40 w/ 5.8 that I found on amazon in like new condition. I saw some RX and TX separates on ebay, but figured buying the way I did basically gives me the cans for $40 extra.


 

 Do you play bf4?


----------



## AxelCloris

pwoznic said:


> My 360 model (newest one "E") cannot use that older adapter. Here's what the back of my console looks like:
> 
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/kb_upload/image/Xbox%20360%20E%20Back.jpg
> 
> ...


 
  
 On man. What was Microsoft thinking? They got tons of complaints about the lack of optical on the launch consoles so they added it with an adapter. Why on earth would they remove it? O_o


----------



## pwoznic

martin vegas said:


> Do you play bf4?


 
 Not yet. I used to game a lot on the PC, but then decided to go back to the 360... I bought so many games the last year (mostly random deals here and there, some used, etc instead of always paying full price at launch) and I have probably close to 20 games that I need to either start or complete. LOL
  
 I almost bought the XB1, but because it's not backwards compatible, and I have so many 360 games to complete, I did not bother yet. I was especially angry when I found out that NHL 14 was NOT coming to the XB1 or PS4 and that I would have to wait for NHL 15.
  
 However, I am an extremely impulsive shopper, so I am pretty sure that I will buy one soon. I've been seeing XB1 bundles with Titanfall and Forza 5 for as low as $450 (they sell out quick) and it's very tempting. I did play some BF3 on PC and PS3, but didn't really like it TBH (I was big into BF2 back in the day on PC). How is BF4? I heard for the first month or so after release that it was really glitchy in multiplayer.


----------



## PETEREK

pwoznic said:


> Not yet. I used to game a lot on the PC, but then decided to go back to the 360... I bought so many games the last year (mostly random deals here and there, some used, etc instead of always paying full price at launch) and I have probably close to 20 games that I need to either start or complete. LOL
> 
> I almost bought the XB1, but because it's not backwards compatible, and I have so many 360 games to complete, I did not bother yet. I was especially angry when I found out that NHL 14 was NOT coming to the XB1 or PS4 and that I would have to wait for NHL 15.
> 
> However, I am an extremely impulsive shopper, so I am pretty sure that I will buy one soon. I've been seeing XB1 bundles with Titanfall and Forza 5 for as low as $450 (they sell out quick) and it's very tempting. I did play some BF3 on PC and PS3, but didn't really like it TBH (I was big into BF2 back in the day on PC). How is BF4? I heard for the first month or so after release that it was really glitchy in multiplayer.


 
 BF4 is getting better. I play on 360 though. I've heard there are minimal problems with it on XB1.
  
 Here's a tip to people who have issues with it on Xbox, go to you xbox settings, go to your storage device, go to where game data is saved, and then delete all the multiplayer updates except the most recent one. You should have no problems with freezes after that.
  
 Here are my stats for anyone who wants to look 
 http://bf4stats.com/xbox/oo%20trauma


----------



## Stillhart

pwoznic said:


> Not yet. I used to game a lot on the PC, but then decided to go back to the 360... I bought so many games the last year (mostly random deals here and there, some used, etc instead of always paying full price at launch) and I have probably close to 20 games that I need to either start or complete. LOL
> 
> I almost bought the XB1, but because it's not backwards compatible, and I have so many 360 games to complete, I did not bother yet. I was especially angry when I found out that NHL 14 was NOT coming to the XB1 or PS4 and that I would have to wait for NHL 15.
> 
> However, I am an extremely impulsive shopper, so I am pretty sure that I will buy one soon. I've been seeing XB1 bundles with Titanfall and Forza 5 for as low as $450 (they sell out quick) and it's very tempting. I did play some BF3 on PC and PS3, but didn't really like it TBH (I was big into BF2 back in the day on PC). How is BF4? I heard for the first month or so after release that it was really glitchy in multiplayer.


 
 Two things:  First, the bundles are with Titanfall OR Forza, not both.  Second, Titanfall is on sale for Amazon's deal of the day... $37.  Get the Forza bundle and cheap Titanfall for maximum awesome!


----------



## pwoznic

stillhart said:


> Two things:  First, the bundles are with Titanfall OR Forza, not both.  Second, Titanfall is on sale for Amazon's deal of the day... $37.  Get the Forza bundle and cheap Titanfall for maximum awesome!


 
 I've also seen the bundles of console + TF or Forza, but yesterday, Newegg had the XB1 with a physical copy of TF + Forza 5 download code for $450 shipped. The deal changed to $499 a couple hours after I saw the initial post on bensbargains, or maybe it was slickdeals.
  
 Oh also, Sears had the Wii U (in store only) for $99 yesterday at various locations around the country. Don't know if it's still going on. I can't wait for my A40s to come in now.


----------



## Stillhart

pwoznic said:


> I've also seen the bundles of console + TF or Forza, but yesterday, Newegg had the XB1 with a physical copy of TF + Forza 5 download code for $450 shipped. The deal changed to $499 a couple hours after I saw the initial post on bensbargains, or maybe it was slickdeals.


 
 I gotcha.  So it's a random deal thing, not a regular thing.  Well if you could get that for $450, it's a steal.  I really like both games and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them if you're at all interested in the Xbone.  PvZ:Garden Warfare is also surprisingly deep and replayable.


----------



## martin vegas

pwoznic said:


> Not yet. I used to game a lot on the PC, but then decided to go back to the 360... I bought so many games the last year (mostly random deals here and there, some used, etc instead of always paying full price at launch) and I have probably close to 20 games that I need to either start or complete. LOL
> 
> I almost bought the XB1, but because it's not backwards compatible, and I have so many 360 games to complete, I did not bother yet. I was especially angry when I found out that NHL 14 was NOT coming to the XB1 or PS4 and that I would have to wait for NHL 15.
> 
> However, I am an extremely impulsive shopper, so I am pretty sure that I will buy one soon. I've been seeing XB1 bundles with Titanfall and Forza 5 for as low as $450 (they sell out quick) and it's very tempting. I did play some BF3 on PC and PS3, but didn't really like it TBH (I was big into BF2 back in the day on PC). How is BF4? I heard for the first month or so after release that it was really glitchy in multiplayer.


 

 Not many games on next gen yet..you can take your time before you buy a new one pwoznic.. I went from xbox360 to ps4 and glad I did..preordered watchdogs and will buy trials fusion in a couple of days time..not that much out to buy..i have bf4 and outlast on ps4 and that's it, i had infamous second son but traded it in for bf4!


----------



## bombadilio

So I love the AKG K702 65 annies that I have. The problem is the lack of a microphone, so far I purchased the $2.99 mic you guys had linked... I am on #5 now they ALWAYS Break. Mainly due to how the cord gets in the way of the computer chair and ....
  
  
 Can anyone record a clip on bluetooth mic that I could use? I figure this way I could just connect it to the headphones and when I want it on it would work... 
  
 Any ideas? I was thinking maybe there was a bluetooth option to eliminate the wire.


----------



## Stillhart

If you're using it at a computer desk, why don't you just get a desk mic?  The one built-in to the SB Omni works just fine.  I imagine there are plenty of similar products that aren't attached directly to a sound card but do the same thing.


----------



## bombadilio

I figured the mic on a computer desk would get in the way of screens. Isn't the sound better when its next to your ear? I just didnt want people to hear me tapping the keyboard as I do games.


----------



## Stillhart

bombadilio said:


> I figured the mic on a computer desk would get in the way of screens. Isn't the sound better when its next to your ear? I just didnt want people to hear me tapping the keyboard as I do games.


 
  
 There are directional mics that wouldn't pick up the KB sound.  There are mics that are low enough not to get in the way, assuming your monitor is on a regular old monitor stand and not sitting flush with the desk.  There are also mics you can mount to the top of your monitor bezel, like a webcam.
  
 I'm not recommending anything in particular, just saying there are more options if you're sitting at a desk than at a couch.


----------



## bombadilio

Curious now...
  
 Right now my AKG headphones are connecting the headphones to the headphone jack on my Logitech Z523 speakers.
  
 Should I be connected to this or would it be better to connect the AKG K702 headphones to the computer directly?
 Curious now... Right now my AKG K702 65 annie headphones are connecting to the headphone jack on my Logitech Z523 speakers. Should I be connected to this or would it be better to connect the AKG K702 headphones to the computer directly? Also, I have now broken 4 clip on mics due to the chair running over the wire and the Logitech webcam sounds terrible as a microphone debating just buying an extension cable for the microphone for 10 bucks. Any ideas here?


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> On man. What was Microsoft thinking? They got tons of complaints about the lack of optical on the launch consoles so they added it with an adapter. Why on earth would they remove it? O_o




Short answer = you expected Microsoft to "think?"
The M$ way is to throw money at problems, and sabotage competition to their main product. Used to be external competition... but then there was XP vs Vista, (unless you count Win 2000 vs ME), basically they bought a cool team to develop the original xBox but over time that talent has been diluted as M$ culture caught up.

There is enough actual competition now that I don't think M$ is evil anymore... they're just incompetent.


I really wanted an optical DAC, but now there is both a Modi with optical and a Geek designed for iPhones.


----------



## conquerator2

bombadilio said:


> Curious now...
> 
> Right now my AKG headphones are connecting the headphones to the headphone jack on my Logitech Z523 speakers.
> 
> ...




You're not doing the headphone much justice... ;\


----------



## Napalmhardcore

peterek said:


> BF4 is getting better.


 
  
 I need to check in on BF4 again. The last time I played many of the EU servers were still a mess. I'd heard that some people were joining east coast US servers instead, but I figured that was just passing the buck.
  
 Apparently part of the reason for the rubber banding and lag has been when people join out of region or from locations with no servers nearby. DICE need to get servers out to these places in the middle of nowhere.
  


martin vegas said:


> Not many games on next gen yet..you can take your time before you buy a new one pwoznic.. I went from xbox360 to ps4 and glad I did..preordered watchdogs and will buy trials fusion in a couple of days time..not that much out to buy..i have bf4 and outlast on ps4 and that's it, i had infamous second son but traded it in for bf4!


 
  
 I agree that there isn't a need to rush to next gen yet. I got a PS4 early on and while I don't regret buying it, I've spent a lot of time on PS3 or PC since buying it due to the lack of games.
  
 Outlast was pretty cool. Got it free with PS+.


----------



## grumpy1471

Well... I just ordered the K712! Should be here within a week! Sadly, I have to wait a little while to get the money to buy an amp but that should give me enough time to test out the headphones and see how much they benefit from one.
  
 I'm leaning towards the Schiit Magni as an amp because it is much more forgiving with lower impedance headphones and could work well with my GR07s and my M80s (if, by some small chance, I end up wanting to listen to something other than the K712s lol).


----------



## kman1211

grumpy1471 said:


> Well... I just ordered the K712! Should be here within a week! Sadly, I have to wait a little while to get the money to buy an amp but that should give me enough time to test out the headphones and see how much they benefit from one.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the Schiit Magni as an amp because it is much more forgiving with lower impedance headphones and could work well with my GR07s and my M80s (if, by some small chance, I end up wanting to listen to something other than the K712s lol).


 

 I just ordered a K712 myself with an HRT Music Streamer II Plus as a new dac. They will benefit quite a bit from an amp.


----------



## bombadilio

conquerator2 said:


> You're not doing the headphone much justice... ;\


  

 What should I do for audio with my computer?
  
 Motherboard is an X58-ud5 rev 2 I really want to get the most out of it. I dont have anymore room in my case for a soundcard as I had considered that at one point.


----------



## Stillhart

bombadilio said:


> What should I do for audio with my computer?
> 
> Motherboard is an X58-ud5 rev 2 I really want to get the most out of it. I dont have anymore room in my case for a soundcard as I had considered that at one point.


 
  
 Get a Sound Blaster Omni.  It's basically the same thing as a SBZ but external.  Both Ev and I use one and it works great.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bombadilio said:


> What should I do for audio with my computer?
> 
> Motherboard is an X58-ud5 rev 2 I really want to get the most out of it. I dont have anymore room in my case for a soundcard as I had considered that at one point.


 
 You could consider an external card like a Sound Blaster Omni or Recon 3D. Alternatively a DAC and Amp. An external card like one of the ones mentioned will have the advantage of doing virtual surround. With a DAC and amp combo you can get the best possible audio, but the sky is the limit when it comes to pricing.
  
 Edit: I've got an Omni too.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Get a Sound Blaster Omni.  It's basically the same thing as a SBZ but external.  Both Ev and I use one and it works great.



Right.
I have some powered Sony desktop speakers that are a step up in price bracket from yours (though I haven't used them at all in the past 3 months), almost universally the headphone jack on these external speakers is cheap and noisy... It should be a little better directly plugged into the X58, but even so the amps built into soundcards aren't very clear and also have to contend with even more interference from other electrical parts.

I like the Omni because it's basically an external soundcard. It offloads the sound processing load from the CPU (more resources for other stuff), has a better DAC and Amp than what's built into any motherboard, and easily allows you to connect to upgraded amps or DACs later. It will also be the hub to let you connect headphones and up to a 5.1 speaker setup, and switch outputs in software without having to unplug anything. I like the virtual headphone processing very much.

A hi-fi amp will still improve on the sound, but my K712 sounded very good plugged directly into my Omni.


----------



## bombadilio

stillhart said:


> Get a Sound Blaster Omni.  It's basically the same thing as a SBZ but external.  Both Ev and I use one and it works great.


 
  
  


napalmhardcore said:


> You could consider an external card like a Sound Blaster Omni or Recon 3D. Alternatively a DAC and Amp. An external card like one of the ones mentioned will have the advantage of doing virtual surround. With a DAC and amp combo you can get the best possible audio, but the sky is the limit when it comes to pricing.
> 
> Edit: I've got an Omni too.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Right.
> I have some powered Sony desktop speakers that are a step up in price bracket from yours (though I haven't used them at all in the past 3 months), almost universally the headphone jack on these external speakers is cheap and noisy... It should be a little better directly plugged into the X58, but even so the amps built into soundcards aren't very clear and also have to contend with even more interference from other electrical parts.
> 
> I like the Omni because it's basically an external soundcard. It offloads the sound processing load from the CPU (more resources for other stuff), has a better DAC and Amp than what's built into any motherboard, and easily allows you to connect to upgraded amps or DACs later. It will also be the hub to let you connect headphones and up to a 5.1 speaker setup, and switch outputs in software without having to unplug anything. I like the virtual headphone processing very much.
> ...


 
  
  
 I think you guys sold me on the omni. I was going to purchase the ZxR but the problem was that with my xeon and 3 video cards I do not have anymore slots available.
  
 Is the recon3d a lot better? if so I will spend the extra $50 for it since the OMNI and recon3d also seem to solve my problem of not needing another microphone!
  
 EDIT: Seems the Omni is the only one with a microphone. So I take it I should go that route. I take it more expensive here does not mean better?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bombadilio said:


> I think you guys sold me on the omni. I was going to purchase the ZxR but the problem was that with my xeon and 3 video cards I do not have anymore slots available.
> 
> Is the recon3d a lot better? if so I will spend the extra $50 for it since the OMNI and recon3d also seem to solve my problem of not needing another microphone!
> 
> EDIT: Seems the Omni is the only one with a microphone. So I take it I should go that route. I take it more expensive here does not mean better?


 
 With the Recon 3D you're paying for multi-platform support. For just PC use you'll be better off with the Omni.


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> With the Recon 3D you're paying for multi-platform support. For just PC use you'll be better off with the Omni.


 
  
 It could also depend on the deal you're getting. On Amazon the Recon3D is slightly cheaper than the Omni. So if you don't need the beam forming mic and want to have the additional options, the Recon3D could be the better choice.


----------



## bombadilio

I saw that for games it had a few other options, I do have to admit I am keen on that mic since I hate attaching cables.'
  
  
 Its funny in September I wanted the Zxr and was ready to put down $250
  
 I take it the suggestion is the OMNI right?


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> With the Recon 3D you're paying for multi-platform support. For just PC use you'll be better off with the Omni.


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> It could also depend on the deal you're getting. On Amazon the Recon3D is slightly cheaper than the Omni. So if you don't need the beam forming mic and want to have the additional options, the Recon3D could be the better choice.


 
  
 I agree with Napalm.  The Recon has a huge advantage in that you can use it with consoles or PC.  But if you aren't going to use it with the console, I think the Omni sounds better.  It's not a massive difference, but I noticed it with my Q701 since they're such detail-whores.  I think you're paying for the flexibility on the Recon...


----------



## bombadilio

Ha! 
  
 I dont even own a tv, I just have surround monitors which act as one so from what you guys are saying I would benefit from utilizing the OMNI. I just wanted to make sure its the BEST external solution for what I am doing. I still have a Creative Audigy Platinum EX which has an external port. I was going to install this but then the problem again.... No more internal space


----------



## PurpleAngel

bombadilio said:


> I think you guys sold me on the omni. I was going to purchase the ZxR but the problem was that with my xeon and 3 video cards I do not have anymore slots available.
> 
> Is the recon3d a lot better? if so I will spend the extra $50 for it since the OMNI and recon3d also seem to solve my problem of not needing another microphone!
> 
> EDIT: Seems the Omni is the only one with a microphone. So I take it I should go that route. I take it more expensive here does not mean better?


 
  
 Oops.


----------



## Evshrug

It's understandable, I've been wrestling with wondering if I'd notice an appreciable difference from an upgraded DAC since before I borrowed an ODAC from Mad and it happened to not work on my computer (but it worked on everyone else's).

I haven't bought/heard any major DAC upgrades yet, but I didn't hear an appreciable difference using my Q701 + tube amp with: my iPod 5th Gen + FiiO L11 dock line-out, SoundBlaster Z PCI card, Soundblaster Omni, Soundblaster Recon3D USB... there may have been differences, but from memory I can't put a finger on any appreciable difference between them, whereas headphones, surround processing methods, and tube swaps were very different to me. There may be a difference with a better DAC, I just don't know 

Edit: I compared the Z vs the Omni side-by-side, but I haven't compared the Omni side-by-side with the Recon3D USB (sharing the Omni and selling/rebuying the Recon3D and changing headphones jumbled things up). For PC though, the Omni definitely is the best gaming external, sounded less wimpy than the Recon3D's built-in amp, and the DAC may have helped the impression too. Plus it has better output options.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> It's understandable, I've been wrestling with wondering if I'd notice an appreciable difference from an upgraded DAC since before I borrowed an ODAC from Mad and it happened to not work on my computer (but it worked on everyone else's).
> 
> I haven't bought/heard any major DAC upgrades yet, but I didn't hear an appreciable difference using my Q701 + tube amp with: my iPod 5th Gen + FiiO L11 dock line-out, SoundBlaster Z PCI card, Soundblaster Omni, Soundblaster Recon3D USB... there may have been differences, but from memory I can't put a finger on any appreciable difference between them, whereas headphones, surround processing methods, and tube swaps were very different to me. There may be a difference with a better DAC, I just don't know
> 
> ...


 
  
 You were comparing with an amp.  I suspect the difference I heard with the Rcon and Omni was the built-in amp more than the DAC. 
  
 Regarding an external DAC, I'll tell you in a couple days if it makes a difference.  My Modi Optical shipped today.  :-D


----------



## bombadilio

Thanks guys really appreciate it! I never thought a USB solution would even / could even be possibly considered. Gonna use some of that hard earned store credit at newegg for one


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> You were comparing with an amp.  I suspect the difference I heard with the Rcon and Omni was the built-in amp more than the DAC.
> 
> Regarding an external DAC, I'll tell you in a couple days if it makes a difference.  My Modi Optical shipped today.  :-D



Yup, I specifically decided to use the amp when I switched from Z to Omni, to minimize variables, but I had to unplug the Z and uninstall/install drivers before I could hear the Omni, and the difference didn't leap out at me with that much time difference. I rebought a Recon later from Nameless cuz I needed a console processor (& I thought he was in a financial bind), and before any A/B testing I let a coworker borrow my Omni (which I didn't realize he would hold for 3 months). Still, I thought the Omni seemed a bit clearer, or at least Borderlands 2 PC sounded great!

*PS: Processor Setup Video Update
I just got back the Omni on Saturday, so now I'm just waiting for the Mixamp 5.8 I loaned to Zombie to get back through the mail *




bombadilio said:


> Thanks guys really appreciate it! I never thought a USB solution would even / could even be possibly considered. Gonna use some of that hard earned store credit at newegg for one



The Omni sounded really too close to tell apart from the Z, and sounded GREAT with Borderlands 2. All the output options you could ask for, too. It's the best PC gaming external processor, and a great value when you consider it replicates all the features of the Zx card/ACM without potentiometer problems from the ACM adding resistance.


----------



## grumpy1471

So after seeing $400 being drained from my bank account... I'm getting what I'm calling buyers doubt (not quite buyers remorse) already. The headphones haven't even been shipped yet! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 My question is, are these K712 Pros REALLY a good investment? This is a lot of money (at least in my books) for a pair of headphones and I have no clue what to expect. WIll the K712s be the end of my search for the ultimate cans? Will they last a long time and be well worth the money? 
  
 I apologize if this seems like a really dumb set of questions. I'm on the fence about canceling my order and need the reassurance


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> So after seeing $400 being drained from my bank account... I'm getting what I'm calling buyers doubt (not quite buyers remorse) already. The headphones haven't even been shipped yet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


>


 
 Well that just about summed it up! Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

grumpy1471 said:


> So after seeing $400 being drained from my bank account... I'm getting what I'm calling buyers doubt (not quite buyers remorse) already. The headphones haven't even been shipped yet! :blink:
> 
> My question is, are these K712 Pros REALLY a good investment? This is a lot of money (at least in my books) for a pair of headphones and I have no clue what to expect. WIll the K712s be the end of my search for the ultimate cans? Will they last a long time and be well worth the money?
> 
> I apologize if this seems like a really dumb set of questions. I'm on the fence about canceling my order and need the reassurance




Think of it like this: you have seen how many headphones I have owned, right? Well the Annie and K712 are the only real ones I felt did almost everything right to the point where I could stop searching for better. Their versatility, comfort, and finesse just resonated with all my needs.

Have I heard better? Yes. But there were always trade offs. The 712 is a headphone with the least amount of tradeoffs, and for a good price.


----------



## Evshrug

So Mad, if money wasn't in the picture, K712 + Fostex TH900 (+ bed headphones like KSC35 or those HG15thingies you found) = headphone endgame?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, I'm still waiting on what the HE400i will bring to the table. I mean LCD2 had endgame sound, but dat weight and lack of comfort was a dealbreaker.

I just really love the planar sound, which is just different from all dynamics I have heard.

As much as I'd love the TH900, it still loses bullet points, mainly in it being closed and having fake leather pads.

I think the HE400i/PM-2 (home) + KSC (work) + 15G/MOE (relaxing at home) would be it, AFAIK.

That's really because I wanna try something new, and I want a planar. Otherwise, K712 would be endgame for home use.


----------



## Change is Good

Guys, there is no end game. It's a fairy tale our audiophile parents would tell us on nights we couldn't sleep.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, I forgot... Something new is what drives a lot of this. And thanks again for reviewing so others can reap the benefits


----------



## Change is Good

End game in this hobby is like following a rainbow... with hope that there's a pot of gold waiting at the end...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Eggshell pads of the TH-900 never gets hot for me. Hifiman pleather and similar are horrible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All leathers, fake or real bother me. From synthetic, protein, lambskin, or regular leather. Its cloth/velour or nothing at all.


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's a pity, you would've really really liked it. Great soundstage, very detailed, very low distortion, fast hard hitting bass that goes very low, euphonic presentation.
  
 To hyperbole: it's simply magical. I think you can relate as you loved the D7000 through and through (upon which the TH-900 improves greatly)


----------



## martin vegas

kman1211 said:


> I just ordered a K712 myself with an HRT Music Streamer II Plus as a new dac. They will benefit quite a bit from an amp.


 
 Why didn't you get one of these..wasn't the headphone amp loud enough to power the K712?


----------



## kman1211

martin vegas said:


> Why didn't you get one of these..wasn't the headphone amp loud enough to power the K712?





 The Musicstreamer II+ is considered a better sounding DAC than the HRT Microstreamer, plus I got the Musicstreamer II+ for cheap. It has nothing to do about loudness, it's about quality.


----------



## martin vegas

kman1211 said:


> The Musicstreamer II+ is considered a better sounding DAC than the HRT Microstreamer, plus I got the Musicstreamer II+ for cheap. It has nothing to do about loudness, it's about quality.


 

 I have heard one of the music streamers..it was a red one in a club, a dj was using it with a korg thingy that had 16 bit sound and put it through the dac then through the club sound system and it sounded much better! you have the grey one not the red one that's supposed to be even better than the red one!


----------



## Razz7

mad lust envy said:


> K712 Pro. No headband bumps, and memory foam pads which don't add the same kind of pressure to the jaw. That is your best bet. Note, that almost every over ear headphone will induce some pressure to the jaw. Not many that I have found where it isn't a little uncofmortable, except the K712 Pro/Annie, MA900, and the Slyr (as far as the most recent ones) which has stupid soft velours. Your other bet is something on ear, which gets rid of jaw discomfort for pinched ears. YMMV.


 
  
 Just received the K712 and wow the comfort is supreme compared to the Q701 imo, I'd like to thank you for recommending them to me, Sound great, Aswell as looking stunning.
  
 Edit: Worth the premium I paid also, Just for the comfort alone.


----------



## Stillhart

razz7 said:


> Just received the K712 and wow the comfort is supreme compared to the Q701 imo, I'd like to thank you for recommending them to me, Sound great, Aswell as looking stunning.
> 
> Edit: Worth the premium I paid also, Just for the comfort alone.


 
  
 Do you still have the Q701 to compare the sound of the two?


----------



## Razz7

stillhart said:


> Do you still have the Q701 to compare the sound of the two?


 
 Nope sent them back this morning.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Mle I sent you a PM not questioning anything just a possible useful piece of information


----------



## grumpy1471

razz7 said:


> Just received the K712 and wow the comfort is supreme compared to the Q701 imo, I'd like to thank you for recommending them to me, Sound great, Aswell as looking stunning.
> 
> Edit: Worth the premium I paid also, Just for the comfort alone.




Now I can't wait until I get mine! Comfort is BY FAR a huge priority with my headphones. Gotta wait till ~Saturday to try mine out. Did you order them from Razordog or Amazon?


----------



## Razz7

grumpy1471 said:


> Now I can't wait until I get mine! Comfort is BY FAR a huge priority with my headphones. Gotta wait till ~Saturday to try mine out. Did you order them from Razordog or Amazon?


 
  
 Amazon UK, from a 3rd party seller.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> All leathers, fake or real bother me. From synthetic, protein, lambskin, or regular leather. Its cloth/velour or nothing at all.




What about the Alpha pads?

Edit: NM, you included lambskin. Guess it really is no leather for you at all lol. 

You really should look into a full size Momentum with 1540 pads. Those alcantaras have the same effect on sound as pleathers, so the differences should be minimal on the momentum once switching.


----------



## Murder Mike

grumpy1471 said:


> So after seeing $400 being drained from my bank account... I'm getting what I'm calling buyers doubt (not quite buyers remorse) already. The headphones haven't even been shipped yet!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 For me personally, yes to both of those questions. I love the sound and comfort of my Annies. I paid a similar amount for mine and know I won't be finding anything noticeably better (for an all around can IMO) without stepping into summit-fi territory.


----------



## Sam21

I am listening to my Pro DJ 200 s, AMAZING DETAILS!!!


----------



## Stillhart

Smokin deal on the X1 for anyone looking:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/4365#post_10483689


----------



## BroBuzz

Just bought a Astro Mixamp for my PS3. Any impressions on using it with some 668Bs?


----------



## Evshrug

Bro,
Should do a good job with the surround effect, perhaps also help he treble sound less fatiguing. Good luck, post your impressions once it arrives!


----------



## Change is Good

There's a 1540 in the classieds for $350


----------



## bombadilio

So I bought the Omni, but am having a really really big issue with the Microphone!
  
 When I have the speakers on I get a really loud THUMMING booom boom boom sound. Almost as if there is a feedback loop going on with the microphone.
  
 I am assuming I have to turn off some setting. Anyone have any idea what is causing this? I have my speakers connected to the OMNI and its just very annoying.
  
Would really appreciate if anyone had any input on how to set this up correctly since right now I can do nothing
  
The other problem with the microphone it seems to pick up all the sounds from the keyboard, mouse and speakers.
  
When I have the headphones plugged in I dont seem to get this issue. Ideas? I set the microphone to as narrow of a field as possible and have it positioned in front of my center monitor in front of my keyboard. Maybe I should move it to the side or something?


----------



## Sentinus

Hi all, just bumping this for more advice - I've been away doing my dissertation (all done, woo!) so haven't had time to come back til now. So far I've gotten recommended the Recon3 USB as well but haven't been able to narrow it down further. MLE / anyone else got any more input on headgear and dac/amp etc?

 Quote: 





sentinus said:


> Hi everybody - I come seeking wisdom.
> 
> I've read MLE's guide (thanks for putting the time in dude; it's awesome for 'audio newbs' like me) quite a few times and have used it as a reference over the last few months during my own research. The trouble is, I'm still stuck, so I decided to finally register and put forward my predicaments and some questions in order to get some better insight.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

Sent,
If you want just one DAC/Surround Processor to use with both PC & console, the Recon3D USB really is the best suited option. I recently discovered that the mic gain switches on the Recon3D work with the PS4 as well to boost (or reduce) lapel mic volume input.

For headphone, focus on what your budget can accommodate. Your old headphone was basically a Sennheiser HD558 [*or WAIT...* PC3*5*0? The PC360 is = HD558, you may have a step down or closed model] with a USB plug & mic, and the headphone can usually be found between $100-$120 online. Once you have your budget in mind, look at headphones in that range and read reviews for what their sound character is like, particularly if they mention being good at things you felt your PC350 was good at (like mids) and things you'd wish to improve (like comfort). I don't worry to much about numbered scores, they usually reflect value-for-price and personal taste of the reviewer, just read for the things the reviewer is excited about (or not excited about).

The current fav (without knowing your sound signature preferences, only you will know that) around $160 is the AKG K612, or you could stretch up to a Q701, K702, or Phillips X1. Keep in mind, these will sound great and probably give you more satisfaction than the PC350, and you probably won't feel an itch for a headphone upgrade again (unless you get curious about different sound signatures, HELLO WELCOME TO HEAD-FI, SORRY 'BOUT YOUR WALLET!), *but* at some point you'll probably want to get an Amp for any of these headphones because that helps to fill out the sound more with more distinct sounds, impact, control, and body to the bass without becoming louder.

*THIS GENERAL ADVICE IS GOOD FOR JUST ABOUT ANYBODY AT THIS BUDGET LEVEL.*
We could probably cut/paste this for 90% of the people who ask... It's all in the first post, and repeated in different ways throughout the thread. The only things that change are budget and sound preference, and some people play PC or Console only might want a more specialized processor for one or two little features.


----------



## DreMag

Excellent budget solution I've found.  The only problem is solving for the chat mic for gaming... which I don't much care for.   I play COD solo, and public lobbies tend to be uninteresting to chat with anyways.
  
 -Picked up a used Turtle Beach PX5 base station on eBay for 25 ish bucks
  
 -Panasonic HTF-600 - these headphones are a great combo of decent bass + extremely accurate soundstage.  Used for 18 bux.
  
 Basically I got up a LEGENDARY gaming setup for below $50.  I highly recommend the pannies, though the PX5 base can easily be replaced by a Mixamp.
  
 I just ordered the Panasonic HTF-890, which is pretty much an open-backed HTF-600.  I'll report back if there's even further improvement on the soundstage, though I hear the bass performance will be lacking.


----------



## bombadilio

OMG!!  
 Ok first I want to say thank you to *Mad Lust Envy*,  *Evshrug*, *Stillhart*, *Napalmhardcore, PurpleAngel, *
  
 Per the below, I installed the Omni, other than the microphone issue, everything is so *CLEAR, * I would never even dreamed that my headphones could sound so good. They blow away my speakers, but even the speakers are louder, crisper than they were before.
  
 So now I need to tweak them, do any of you play COD, Titanfall, or any other FPS games? Whats the best option in the SBX Pro Studio for these headphone for games? Should I use the presets? Also what do yout hink of scout mode? When I tried that mode, it sounded a little bit hollow, but I could not tell. Would love your input. Again thank you sooooo much!!! Best $72 I ever spent (other than these awesome headphones which I thought were bleh up until now!)
  
 Quote:


bombadilio said:


> I think you guys sold me on the omni. I was going to purchase the ZxR but the problem was that with my xeon and 3 video cards I do not have anymore slots available.
> 
> Is the recon3d a lot better? if so I will spend the extra $50 for it since the OMNI and recon3d also seem to solve my problem of not needing another microphone!
> 
> EDIT: Seems the Omni is the only one with a microphone. So I take it I should go that route. I take it more expensive here does not mean better?


 
  
  


Spoiler: Quote






napalmhardcore said:


> With the Recon 3D you're paying for multi-platform support. For just PC use you'll be better off with the Omni.


 
  


evshrug said:


> Yup, I specifically decided to use the amp when I switched from Z to Omni, to minimize variables, but I had to unplug the Z and uninstall/install drivers before I could hear the Omni, and the difference didn't leap out at me with that much time difference. I rebought a Recon later from Nameless cuz I needed a console processor (& I thought he was in a financial bind), and before any A/B testing I let a coworker borrow my Omni (which I didn't realize he would hold for 3 months). Still, I thought the Omni seemed a bit clearer, or at least Borderlands 2 PC sounded great!
> 
> *PS: Processor Setup Video Update
> I just got back the Omni on Saturday, so now I'm just waiting for the Mixamp 5.8 I loaned to Zombie to get back through the mail
> ...


 
  





dremag said:


> Excellent budget solution I've found.  The only problem is solving for the chat mic for gaming... which I don't much care for.   I play COD solo, and public lobbies tend to be uninteresting to chat with anyways.
> 
> -Picked up a used Turtle Beach PX5 base station on eBay for 25 ish bucks
> 
> ...


 
 Dre Mag do you use the omni if so what settings do you use?


----------



## DreMag

No omni in my setup.  I use the Turtle Beach PX5 base station plugged into my PS4's optical.  It was the cheapest Dolby Headphone decoder I could find 


bombadilio said:


> Spoiler: Quote
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## rovve

Can someone recommend me an extension cable for my V-MODA BoomPro?


----------



## Evshrug

Rovve,
You're basically gonna want a TRRS extension cable if you want to keep Mic input... I haven't used such a cable myself, but Monoprice has all sorts of cables and good prices.


Bomb,
Glad it's working well, thank you for thanking us! The DAC (and amp) built-in to the Omni is a bit better than the one in that base station DreMag is using, though his works processing surround from consoles. Conquerator2 (spelling?) uses the same base station as him.

I usually turn off crystalizer and other special effects besides surround, but in the end they are tweaks to suit your preference, so season to your taste. For example, "I" like to use the dialogue booster 

For the mic issue, could be a bunch of things, I recommend asking tech support.


----------



## rovve

Like this: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUHSMF2M-Position-Headset-Extension/dp/B008DWGLLO ?


----------



## burritoboy9984

rovve said:


> Like this: http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUHSMF2M-Position-Headset-Extension/dp/B008DWGLLO ?


 
  
 Should work


----------



## bombadilio

evshrug said:


> Bomb,
> Glad it's working well, thank you for thanking us! The DAC (and amp) built-in to the Omni is a bit better than the one in that base station DreMag is using, though his works processing surround from consoles. Conquerator2 (spelling?) uses the same base station as him.
> 
> I usually turn off crystalizer and other special effects besides surround, but in the end they are tweaks to suit your preference, so season to your taste. For example, "I" like to use the dialogue booster
> ...


 
  
 Thanks,
  
 Think you can explain a bit more (than what Creative wrote) in regards to the SBX Pro Studio for games? I am trying to figure the difference in-game with the SBX Pro Studio "Surround", "Crystallizer", "bass settings", etc. 
  
 Its hard in-game to edit these settings and then differentiate. For Example when I did there First Person Shooter mode, the sound of the gun seemed to be low. Thought maybe some other people may have tested it out. Regardless it sounds MILES better than what I heard before.
  
 Do you like the Diaogue Booster mainly for its ability to play the sounds of people talking or more for hearing? What other effects do you turn off?
  
 BTW, I have an old Audigy Platinum EX I doubt these two would work with my setup, what do you think I could sell the unit for?
  
  
 P.S. what do you use for music?
 P.P.S. for 2.1 surround (speakers) should I set up the Speaker/Headphone area as stereo or 5.1? Not sure what would be better for my seutp


----------



## Evshrug

bombadilio said:


> Thanks,
> 
> Think you can explain a bit more (than what Creative wrote) in regards to the SBX Pro Studio for games?
> 
> ...



Sure, I already wrote more in-depth in my Recon3D USB review (linked in my signature). I just went in and out of a game cutscene to test audio, you just hold the windows button and press tab to switch between open programs. The only thing I'll add, sometimes it's more precise to have the surround slider at the default 67%, but usually I like it turned up.

Some stuff you're gonna figure out for yourself, for example I have no idea what to do with that front bay Audigy thingie you pictured.


----------



## bombadilio

evshrug said:


> Sure, I already wrote more in-depth in my Recon3D USB review (linked in my signature). I just went in and out of a game cutscene to test audio, you just hold the windows button and press tab to switch between open programs. The only thing I'll add, sometimes it's more precise to have the surround slider at the default 67%, but usually I like it turned up.
> 
> Some stuff you're gonna figure out for yourself, for example I have no idea what to do with that front bay Audigy thingie you pictured.


 
 Thanks, Yeah I don't think I can use that deck or controller from the old audigy platinum ex.
  
 I read your review, fps wise, and music wise would you mind taking a screen or let me know what your settings are? I am trying to determine seperate settings for headphones and settings when I watch movies / music for my 2.1 speaker setup.


----------



## eXistencelies

Hey Mad Lust, or another audio professional,
  
 Thank you for the write up. Helps a lot, but I still had to sign up to ask some questions. I am somewhat a newbie to the headphone world. I do a lot of FPS gaming and looking for a fantastic headphone. Price is around $300 tops. As of now I am using Razer's Kraken 7.1. They are ok, but I feel I can do a lot better with sound. I also have a razer-barracuda AC-1 sound card which I do not use right now. I see that you have rated the AKG K701's as a great 10/10 competition headphone. Which is awesome. In my price range and everything. Now my questions are as follow:
  
 1.) Can I just plug these into my razer sound card and turn on Dolby and run it that way without any aftermarket equipment to buy, or can I just plug into my motherboards audio input?
 2.) Will these work with virtual surround?
 3.) I play mostly CS:GO right now and they only go up to 5.1. Now in game would i select headphones or 5.1 for the audio option?
 4.) I saw you talking about a Mixmap or something like that. Do I really need one of those? 
 5.) Can I just use a clip on mic like at micmods.com for this headset?
  
  
 If you, or anyone, can answer my question I would appreciate it.
  
 Thank you for reading and taking your time to reply.
  
  
 Randy.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bombadilio said:


> Thanks, Yeah I don't think I can use that deck or controller from the old audigy platinum ex.
> 
> I read your review, fps wise, and music wise would you mind taking a screen or let me know what your settings are? I am trying to determine seperate settings for headphones and settings when I watch movies / music for my 2.1 speaker setup.


 
 In the control panel you will want the settings to reflect what equipment you have (ie: headphones when you have headphones connected and stereo when you are outputting to stereo speakers). In the game menu however, if you are going to be using virtual surround, set the configuration to 5.1 (game menu only, not the control panel of the card). When you are outputting to stereo speakers however, I'd recommend switching the in game settings back to stereo.
  
 As for some of the other questions you've asked, there really is no particular "good" set up to use. You'll have to just experiment a little. I personally have my EQ flat, Crystaliser off, bass enhancement off, scout mode off and am still experimenting with the amount of surround I like.


----------



## Evshrug

bombadilio said:


> Thanks, Yeah I don't think I can use that deck or controller from the old audigy platinum ex.
> 
> I read your review, fps wise, and music wise would you mind taking a screen or let me know what your settings are? I am trying to determine seperate settings for headphones and settings when I watch movies / music for my 2.1 speaker setup.



If you give a mouse a cookie...





existencelies said:


> Hey Mad Lust, or another audio professional,
> 
> Thank you for the write up. Helps a lot, but I still had to sign up to ask some questions.
> 
> Randy.



Randy, we're not professionals... If we were, we'd actually be getting paid to make this worth our while!

Most of your questions are answered in the FAQ spoiler section of the guide. I'll just add a little info about the only one question that isn't answered in the guide, since the guide is based on console gaming: you would want to set CS:GO to 5.1, so that your soundcard (if it has Dolby Headphone) can use that to create a virtual headphone mix.


----------



## kman1211

Well my K712 arrived today, spending a lot time with them to get a good feel of them on my system and also got another headphone out of curiosity the HD 545.


----------



## Evshrug

Kman1211,
I'd be interested to hear your impressions on the K712 Pro paired with the HiFiman tube amp you've got...


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Kman1211,
> I'd be interested to hear your impressions on the K712 Pro paired with the HiFiman tube amp you've got...


 

 I also have the FiiO E12(which you seem to have) and I'll compare it to the EF2A once I get my interconnect cable through the mail so I can compare how both amps sound on my new DAC. I also have 3 different pairs of tubes on the EF2A and each sounds very different.


----------



## eXistencelies

> Originally Posted by *Evshrug*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
  
 Haha. I may have exaggerated a little much on professionals. Basically wanting to know if the K701 are leaps better than my Kraken 7.1? They are USB only. I do not use my sound card as of now since the razer synapse has it's own little shindig. I would like to know if the K701's have that surround sound to them? Like I said I am new to the audio world and I am ready to burn a small hole in my pocket. Just would like the best for FPS gaming. Any gaming to be more specific. As of now I do have my 5.1 set on CS:GO. I have switched between headphones and 5.1 and the 5.1 is more precise on where everyone is. I just feel these Krakens are kinda cheap. I also feel as if my old Razer Barracuda HP-1 that had Dolby with my sound card was MUCH better. Not to sure about these USB headsets.
  
  
  
 EDIT: Damn why does the quote code not work here? Also I did not see any FAQ on the gaming sub-forum. I must be blind?


----------



## AxelCloris

existencelies said:


> Haha. I may have exaggerated a little much on professionals. Basically wanting to know if the K701 are leaps better than my Kraken 7.1? They are USB only. I do not use my sound card as of now since the razer synapse has it's own little shindig. I would like to know if the K701's have that surround sound to them? Like I said I am new to the audio world and I am ready to burn a small hole in my pocket. Just would like the best for FPS gaming. Any gaming to be more specific. As of now I do have my 5.1 set on CS:GO. I have switched between headphones and 5.1 and the 5.1 is more precise on where everyone is. I just feel these Krakens are kinda cheap. I also feel as if my old Razer Barracuda HP-1 that had Dolby with my sound card was MUCH better. Not to sure about these USB headsets.
> 
> EDIT: Damn why does the quote code not work here? Also I did not see any FAQ on the gaming sub-forum. I must be blind?


 
  
 In a word: yes. The K701 will be a very noticeable improvement over the sound of the Kraken 7.1. I can't and won't say that the Kraken isn't a decent headset because that just isn't true. But having heard it and a K701 previously, the K701 is more musical and will give you a better representation of what's playing. Razer does have its own surround processing and while it does its job you may find that Dolby Headphone or one of the other surround processors work better for your tastes. You can demo them all in a YouTube video on the first post. The demo uses _Bioshock: Infinite_ to demonstrate the various processing available.
  
 The K701 do not have surround inherently, so you'll need something to go with them to achieve it. You can even use the Razer software if you're on Windows. And if you're looking for the best in FPS gaming where detail is more important than immersion then you could be better off with the AD700x from Audio Technica. When it comes to sound whoring in FPS games I have yet to come across anything better. And since it's a lot easier to drive than the K701 you won't need to have an amp to push them. With the K701 it's pretty well accepted around these parts that an amp is a must.
  
 If you're looking for all-rounders in gaming there are other options as well. The K701 is a very nice headphone but requires a pretty beefy amp to really get the most out of it. You could get the Q701 which is easier to drive and then you can get by with a less powerful amp. Heck, you may not even need one to achieve the volume you want. The amp will just help fill out the sound better. The MA900 is also a good choice if you can find it for a decent price, but since it was discontinued prices have pretty much only gone up.


----------



## Evshrug

eXistenze,
If you send me 5 dollars, I'll quote the sections of the guide where each of your questions are answered 


kman1211,
Yes, I have a first-batch E12 (which should sound identical to yours when both have the bass boost off), and a Class A SET tube amp. I love the way tubes change sound, for a while buying/hunting $15-$20 tubes was a great way to hear a high-quality new sound, but manually biasing with a multimeter and a screwdriver is a PITA, lol. Which DAC did you get? I haven't made the plunge for a DAC yet, so far the DACs of my Omni and iDevices have been fine and I hear the change in upgrading is slight.


----------



## Evshrug

Axel,
The K701 and Q701 have the same impedance (62 Ohm) and sensitivity (105 dB SPL/V), so they take the same amount of "push" to amp. It's just that the sound signature is different, the Q701 is less picky about what character the amp lends to the sound because it's warmer at the bottom end. And they sound quite good without an extra external amp (I'm listening to some chill-out music right now with my Q701 plugged into my iPad Mini retina, having a good time), but an amp opens the door on soundstage and gives more defined body to the sound.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> eXistenze,
> If you send me 5 dollars, I'll quote the sections of the guide where each of your questions are answered
> 
> 
> ...


 

 So they should be similar. I love the way it changes the sound as well. As good as the E12 sounds on my new DAC it does lack the depth, soundstage, smoothness, and dimension of the EF2A. I get the feeling when the dac is hooked up to the EF2A it's going to pull a good deal ahead, because when both are hooked up to the same source the EF2A sounds better. I am curious what high quality cables will do to the K712s sound. I know from experience good cables make a difference, while not quite as big of change as other components, it's audible. I got the HRT Music Streamer II+ as I found a good deal on it. It has a warm, smooth, and organic sound, with solid and powerful dynamics, good detail and imaging, soundstage is good, and no sense of hollowness or brittleness that can be found in lesser DACs.


----------



## Evshrug

I definitely feel the same way about my desktop tube amp vs the E12, but then the tube amp needs to be plugged in and cost 2x as much.

I see a music streamer II+ like yours for ~$310, but for that price I'd want USB and Optical Inputs. Though I now tread on the verge of going OT, the AudioEngine D1 looks much more like it would fit my needs/budget. Have you heard any reason to avoid that/look at something else? Wait another month for a Bifrost?

I might want to find someone willing to trade my K712 for their Annies... purely because I'd rather have the blue


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> I definitely feel the same way about my desktop tube amp vs the E12, but then the tube amp needs to be plugged in and cost 2x as much.
> 
> I see a music streamer II+ like yours for ~$310, but for that price I'd want USB and Optical Inputs. Though I now tread on the verge of going OT, the AudioEngine D1 looks much more like it would fit my needs/budget. Have you heard any reason to avoid that/look at something else? Wait another month for a Bifrost?
> 
> I might want to find someone willing to trade my K712 for their Annies... purely because I'd rather have the blue


 

 I do like the E12 but with my ipod, I don't like either of my AKGs with the E12 & Ipod Combo as they sound a bit thin and hollow in the mids so that crosses them out from being portable at all for me. The Senn HD 545 on the other hand sounds perfectly fine on that combo, so I guess the HD 545 is going to be my semi-portable headphone. AKGs from my experience are very sensitive to what they are hooked up to. They seem to shine on tube amps but what is really important with AKGs is the DAC, a good DAC completely changes them.
  
 I got mine for $200 new, I got lucky there. That is true, would be nice if it had optical. I don't know much about DACs, the HRT Music Streamer for me was a spur of the moment thing, I bought it without really doing any research, but it turns out to be a great sounding DAC and I'm happy with it. I would personally wait another month for the Bifrost. DAC upgrades have very large impacts on the sound of headphones, people often focus on headphones and amps and don't realize how important the DAC is, sometimes it's the biggest determiner of sound quality in the system.
  
 The Annie and K712 sound a bit different from my personal experience. The blue is nice though. Some reason I like the coppery-orange of the K712 more.


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> The Annie and K712 sound a bit different from my personal experience. The blue is nice though. Some reason I like the coppery-orange of the K712 more.




That's because you're a bad-guy from TRON.







> I got mine for $200 new, I got lucky there. [...] I would personally wait another month for the Bifrost. DAC upgrades have very large impacts on the sound of headphones, people often focus on headphones and amps and don't realize how important the DAC is, sometimes it's the biggest determiner of sound quality in the system.




Wow, amazing price.
I've heard people say DACs make the least change in sound, that as long as you don't have a BAD DAC and do have a decent DAC, you've already hit the point of diminishing returns. People do point to DACs as benefitting imaging, soundstage, and countering brittleness – sonic improvements which I've found to be elusive to improve, but even a small change in those areas can make a BIG change in pleasure and enjoyment.

Btw, the Q701 sounded good, but I had to take them off about an hour ago because my ears got tired... sometimes I can get away with plugging my headphones directly into my gaming processors because I'm focusing on the game, but I was just reminded that an underfed Q701 just isn't the same experience :/


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> That's because you're a bad-guy from TRON.
> Wow, amazing price.
> I've heard people say DACs make the least change in sound, that as long as you don't have a BAD DAC and do have a decent DAC, you've already hit the point of diminishing returns. People do point to DACs as benefitting imaging, soundstage, and countering brittleness – sonic improvements which I've found to be elusive to improve, but even a small change in those areas can make a BIG change in pleasure and enjoyment.
> 
> Btw, the Q701 sounded good, but I had to take them off about an hour ago because my ears got tired... sometimes I can get away with plugging my headphones directly into my gaming processors because I'm focusing on the game, but I was just reminded that an underfed Q701 just isn't the same experience :/


 

 True, lol.
  
 It's why I went for it, that and I wanted a better dac and to break away from being chained to my sound-card on my desktop PC. I haven't found that the case from auditioning my friends gear which is Summit-fi. I personally found the DAC can be just as important as the headphone and amplifier. I found that seemingly small things can translate into a massive upgrade sonically. There are also many people who say the DAC makes the biggest improvement to their system. What really matters is balancing out the gear right, trying not to focus too much on any particular part, but rather having a solid audio chain from the ground up.
  
 This is how my friend explains it, not really the best or most accurate description but it works in a sense. The DAC is the roots of the system. The Amplifier is the stem. The headphone is the flower. The cables are how well the nutrients are transported from one part to the next. And the audio files is the quality of food and nutrients.
  
 Reminds me of trying my K612 underfed, you get fatigued after some use. It sounds brittle and broken when underfed, not really that pleasant.


----------



## Change is Good

kman1211 said:


> The Annie and K712 sound a bit different from my personal experience. The blue is nice though. Some reason I like the coppery-orange of the K712 more.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> That's because you're a bad-guy from TRON.


 
  
 Or he could be a Giants fan...


----------



## kman1211

change is good said:


> Or he could be a Giants fan...


 

 Actually my universities colors are orange and black.


----------



## SaLX

Evshrug - good to see you on Twitch / CoD: Ghosts the other night - high body count plus funny quips.


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> Evshrug - good to see you on Twitch / CoD: Ghosts the other night - high body count plus funny quips.



I overflow with quips, glad it was to your taste and it was really fun to have you there!
Tomorrow I'm recording my video illustrating the signal path from game system to headphones with multiple options for surround processors, and then I'll probably be streaming some gameplay 
I still have to beat some old games story mode (every time I play Oblivion I start out saying LET'S RUSH THE STORY! But I end up carefully watching my level up stats, writing notes, and getting into completionist mode), but CoD is so damn addictive.


----------



## Zombie_X

It's too bad there's no way for viewers to hear me, Evshrug, and Change talk in a party on the PS4. We all talk smack to each other, well mostly me and Change. I had one of my friends rolling the other night, he literally ran out of breath. Fun times on tha PS4.
  
 But MLE, you should just try BF4. You ahven't tried it so you don't even know if you'd hate it. It's not as fast and frantic as COD, but still plenty fast. It doesn't hurt to try the game at all. It seems like you have this blind hate for the BF series, but I haven't seen as to why you hate it. As much as I like Ghosts, and I do, it just doesn't hold a candle to BF4.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Axel,
> The K701 and Q701 have the same impedance (62 Ohm) and sensitivity (105 dB SPL/V), so they take the same amount of "push" to amp. It's just that the sound signature is different, the Q701 is less picky about what character the amp lends to the sound because it's warmer at the bottom end. And they sound quite good without an extra external amp (I'm listening to some chill-out music right now with my Q701 plugged into my iPad Mini retina, having a good time), but an amp opens the door on soundstage and gives more defined body to the sound.


 
  
 Interesting. When I was able to hear a K701 at a meet I found it didn't sound quite as loud as the Q701 I owned when not using an amp. Maybe that's due to the low background noise of the meet, but the room wasn't loud by any means. The K701 seemed to scale batter with the same amps. So it seems I stand corrected.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

As a couple of you guys have been talking about tube amps, I'm curious. Could you give me the names of a couple of decent entry level ones to go and research.


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> As a couple of you guys have been talking about tube amps, I'm curious. Could you give me the names of a couple of decent entry level ones to go and research.


 
  
 What price rage are you considering entry level?


----------



## SaLX

> Tomorrow I'm recording my video illustrating the signal path from game system to headphones with multiple options for surround processors, and then I'll probably be streaming some gameplay


 
  
 Oh sweet Evs - that'll be well worth watching I'm sure. Looking forward to it. Mixamp+Recon then?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> What price rage are you considering entry level?


 
 I'm not setting aside a budget at the moment. This is purely research (the long list of things I want already outweigh my budget by astronomical proportions lol).


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not setting aside a budget at the moment. This is purely research (the long list of things I want already outweigh my budget by astronomical proportions lol).


 
  
 Well, you can start pretty simply by looking at tube amps of varying price that many consider to be entry level. Schiit Vali, Schiit Valhalla, Bottlehead Crack, Little Dot amps, Project Starlight, Project Sunrise, the ever budget friendly Bravo amps, and many more.


----------



## bombadilio

evshrug said:


> If you give a mouse a cookie...
> Randy, we're not professionals... If we were, we'd actually be getting paid to make this worth our while!
> 
> Most of your questions are answered in the FAQ spoiler section of the guide. I'll just add a little info about the only one question that isn't answered in the guide, since the guide is based on console gaming: you would want to set CS:GO to 5.1, so that your soundcard (if it has Dolby Headphone) can use that to create a virtual headphone mix.


 
 Thanks so basically in games I set it to 5.1 and in Omni I set it to Headphones.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> Well, you can start pretty simply by looking at tube amps of varying price that many consider to be entry level. Schiit Vali, Schiit Valhalla, Bottlehead Crack, Little Dot amps, Project Starlight, Project Sunrise, the ever budget friendly Bravo amps, and many more.


 
 Thanks


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> It's too bad there's no way for viewers to hear me, Evshrug, and Change talk in a party on the PS4. We all talk smack to each other, well mostly me and Change. I had one of my friends rolling the other night, he literally ran out of breath. Fun times on tha PS4.
> 
> But MLE, you should just try BF4. You ahven't tried it so you don't even know if you'd hate it. It's not as fast and frantic as COD, but still plenty fast. It doesn't hurt to try the game at all. It seems like you have this blind hate for the BF series, but I haven't seen as to why you hate it. As much as I like Ghosts, and I do, it just doesn't hold a candle to BF4.


 

*Battlefield 4 is not as good as it could have been..getting shot behind cover and hit from every angle by the gunship and m142 is a bit irritating..choppers were better in bf3..when do you flare/ecm now? not that impressed with bf4 on ps4 if I am being honest..more impressed by infamous second son, looking forward to watchdogs(pre-ordered) and the division! p.s I had some rubber banding on Golmud railway today!*


----------



## conquerator2

I gotta admit FPS is my least favorite genre.
I never understood the hype... They are fun at times but start to feel mediocre when played regularly... 
That's the way I see it at least.


----------



## dakanao

conquerator2 said:


> I gotta admit FPS is my least favorite genre.
> I never understood the hype... They are fun at times but start to feel mediocre when played regularly...
> That's the way I see it at least.


 
 The thing I found about FPS, and especially online FPS, is that when you get a good score. you feel REALLY satisfied, and it's fun too see what you have unlocked. And then, the next round you want to get that score AGAIN and BETTER.
  
 But I gotta admit though, after going through 4 prestiges on COD, I lost interest in it... Because by then you know exactly how the whole game works, and it's not fun anymore.
  
 At the moment I'm playing GTA 5, and I absolutely love that game.


----------



## autoteleology

I've seen some people post about the results they've had while using their gear from this thread... so I want to post a video showing what I can do with my Stax.


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> Video including Mixamp/Recon3D?



It will include those, and MORE. More is more, and more is good. Right?
...
There will be 5 options, basically showing every scenario. I am a sick sick young man with a problem/opportunity!




conquerator2 said:


> I gotta admit FPS is my least favorite genre.
> I never understood the hype... They are fun at times but start to feel mediocre when played regularly...
> That's the way I see it at least.



For me... I could only get a taste of the genre while growing up, cuz my mom wouldn't allow that "murder training in this house!" But I always had a blast playing Goldeneye at friends' houses, and zany things with Halo+warthogs+grenades. Eventually my dad got me an Xbox (YAY DAD!), and I've been having a lot of fun with the genre since. I still play lots of RPGs and action games, but FPS is also a social experience for me. And after playing CoD 4 for about 7 years, it's kinda like playing baseball or football - it's not about a new game mechanic, it's about competing against people and going for high scores. Same reason why I still play Starcraft II... I get such high value out of these games.


----------



## conquerator2

Good for you guys 
I get much more enjoyment off other genres, SP and MP.


----------



## tmaxx123

I saw someone was interested in how the ath-a900x performs as a gaming headphone, so after a little over a week with it, I will give my impressions. Soundstage is nice and roomy, while providing nice positioning cues and detailed sound reproduction. Compared to my mmx-300, they are more comfortable, and have more prevalent mids. For gaming, I am still getting used to the audio technica. They are definitely better with music reproduction, but for gaming, I think i still prefer the sound of the mmx-300 due to them being able to separate the highs and lows better. The Audio technica have more of a "flat" response where as the mmx-300 have a "v" shaped response, with their pronounced highs and lows.
  
 FPS Gaming wise I still like the SOUND of the mmx-300. Call me a "bass head" but  I love when the explosions have impact and depth. Audio technicas have great bass reproduction, but the seal isnt as good as my mmx-300 with the gel earpads.
 But it is more enjoyable to wear the a900x due to their comfortable fit, while still having superb sound.
 I will no longer be looking into the ath-ag1, because after hearing that they are based off the ath-a700x, I would not be looking forward to a "downgrade" in sound from my a900x.
  
 This is all using the 2013 mixamp pro and e12 amp. 
 Note : a900x is still in a break in period  as I have only about 25 hours of listening on them.
  
 my question to everyone, "Is there a REALLY comfortable open or closed headphone that can reproduce bass like a tight sealed closed headphone?" Is that even possible?
 does the bass of the akg 712 pro even come close to a headphone such as the mmx-300?


----------



## conquerator2

X1 pretty good at bass


----------



## ImGunz

Quick question:
 Im currently using a astro a40 audio system with the mix amp on my pc and would like to upgrade to the philips fidelio x1 or the beyerdynamic 990. I would like to use one of those headsets with the mix amp if it can power them properly (which i don't know if it can) but if it doesn't what should i get instead AMP/DAC wise?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> It will include those, and MORE. More is more, and more is good. Right?
> ...
> There will be 5 options, basically showing every scenario. I am a sick sick young man with a problem/opportunity!
> For me... I could only get a taste of the genre while growing up, cuz my mom wouldn't allow that "murder training in this house!" But I always had a blast playing Goldeneye at friends' houses, and zany things with Halo+warthogs+grenades. Eventually my dad got me an Xbox (YAY DAD!), and I've been having a lot of fun with the genre since. I still play lots of RPGs and action games, but FPS is also a social experience for me. And after playing CoD 4 for about 7 years, it's kinda like playing baseball or football - it's not about a new game mechanic, it's about competing against people and going for high scores. Same reason why I still play Starcraft II... I get such high value out of these games.


 
 How old are you (unless that is a question you'd rather not answer)?


----------



## kman1211

Well this is just weird, the E12 is making my ears quite clogged up no matter the headphone or the source it's hooked up to, it's the same problem I had with the Magni and to a lesser degree the E11. Switching to the EF2A and my ears are clearing up as I listen.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> Well this is just weird, the E12 is making my ears quite clogged up no matter the headphone or the source it's hooked up to, it's the same problem I had with the Magni and to a lesser degree the E11. Switching to the EF2A and my ears are clearing up as I listen.


 
 Have you been on a marathon listening session? I am not nearly as experienced as some here, but fairly recently I had my headphones on for the best part of two days and it started playing havoc with my ears.
  
 Even if one amp is seemingly not causing you issues, it may be the ebb and flow of your body making the difference rather than the amp.
  
 Feel free to take this post with a pinch of salt as I've had a few to drink


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> Have you been on a marathon listening session? I am not nearly as experienced as some here, but fairly recently I had my headphones on for the best part of two days and it started playing havoc with my ears.
> 
> Even if one amp is seemingly not causing you issues, it may be the ebb and flow of your body making the difference rather than the amp.
> 
> Feel free to take this post with a pinch of salt as I've had a few to drink


 

 Not really, I only listen to it on short bursts of about like 20 minutes at a time then I leave it alone for hours. I've noticed this in the past when I had both the EF2A and the Magni. I've always been able to listen to the EF2A without fatigue for basically all day, the longest session I had with the EF2A was a 14 hours straight gaming session and absolutely no fatigue and I tend to listen to it at higher volumes than I tend to listen to the Magni at, I was never able to listen to the Magni for more than 2-4 hours at a time. The Magni fatigued me after moderate use, it usually takes a few days for problems to occur. This also happened when the Magni was my only amp for many months, ear clogging was a constant problem, so it's not something that has to do with me being used to an amp or anything.
  
 I always had problems with solid state amps and devices fatiguing my ears, I was thinking it was just certain amps, but the more I listen to the more it seems my ears just don't agree with something about them, heck I have problems with portable devices, headphone outs in computers, etc. The only fix I have come across so far is hybrid tube and pure tube amps.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

It's interesting that some amps seem to cause problems more than others. Is this a case of solid state vs tube? If that were the case it would be even more interesting and even potentially worthy of its own thread.
  
 I am a guitar player and know that many people find tube guitar amps more sonically pleasing. The idea that tube amps may be less irritating (from a medical perspective) is intriguing.


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> It's interesting that some amps seem to cause problems more than others. Is this a case of solid state vs tube? If that were the case it would be even more interesting and even potentially worthy of its own thread.
> 
> I am a guitar player and know that many people find tube guitar amps more sonically pleasing. The idea that tube amps may be less irritating (from a medical perspective) is intriguing.


 

 I think it can possible be a tube vs solid state thing because I haven't experienced anything to tell me otherwise so far and I've been told similar things by other people. It's something that needs be looked into more in-depth. Some tubes amps I heard were much harsher than the ss amp but the tube amp still fatigued me less. Harshness on tubes just comes off as an unpleasant sound to me. On SS amps it's like my ears build up a defense(clogging and ear wax) to their sound no matter how smooth and warm it is. I have been told that tubes are easier on the ears. Maybe it has to do with how the amps handle distortion and clipping differently. So for people with especially sensitive ears, it may be something to look into. Listening to a tube amp after dealing with clogging from listening to a solid state device my ears slowly pop and the clogging eases up with each pop my hearing slowly goes back to normal.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> I think it can possible be a tube vs solid state thing because I haven't experienced anything to tell me otherwise so far and I've been told similar things by other people. It's something that needs be looked into more in-depth. Some tubes amps I heard were much harsher than the ss amp but the tube amp still fatigued me less. Harshness on tubes just comes off as an unpleasant sound to me. On SS amps it's like my ears build up a defense(clogging and ear wax) to their sound no matter how smooth and warm it is. I have been told that tubes are easier on the ears. Maybe it has to do with how the amps handle distortion and clipping differently. So for people with especially sensitive ears, it may be something to look into. Listening to a tube amp after dealing with clogging from listening to a solid state device my ears slowly pop and the clogging eases up with each pop my hearing slowly goes back to normal.


 
 My ears are pretty sensitive. I've not tried a headphone tube amp, but my experience thus far with headphones has taught me that I am not suited to long sessions. Tube amps may be an avenue for me to explore in future.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> How old are you (unless that is a question you'd rather not answer)?



The same age as Day[9]




kman1211 said:


> Well this is just weird, the E12 is making my ears quite clogged up no matter the headphone or the source it's hooked up to, it's the same problem I had with the Magni and to a lesser degree the E11. Switching to the EF2A and my ears are clearing up as I listen.



I had a similar experience, except the E12 with crossfeed on and my K712 didn't cause me to suffer as much, and my tube amp with a Bugle Boy 6DJ8 white label unfortunately had a microphonics issue that seemed to be ringing constantly just beyond my range of hearing did cause me to have shorter sessions and eventually convince me to change tubes.

The finer hairs in our inner ear are responsible for detecting higher frequencies, and in the normal course of life these will be the first to start failing. When these hairs are agitated to the point of some beginning to deteriorate on the spot, our ears begin thickening the ear wax to try and protect our hearing.

Everyone's ears are different and respond differently to agitating sound (some will clog more), but everyone can benefit from avoiding brittle treble and regular breaks, especially if you play audio a bit louder.

A co-worker recently was surprised I was buying expensive headphones, because he thought I'd told him earlier that I don't like to listen to loud sounds and assumed I didn't like music. I told him that I LOVE music, and I hope to enjoy it as late as possible into my life.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> The same age as Day[9]


 
  
 Whenever I hear his name I can only think of the Halloween when he played _Amnesia: The Dark Descent_ and ended up being a screaming little girl for several hours. Such a fun few nights of streaming. That game freaked me out when I played through it so it's fun watching others succumb to it's incredible atmosphere and story telling.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> The same age as Day[9]
> I had a similar experience, except the E12 with crossfeed on and my K712 didn't cause me to suffer as much, and my tube amp with a Bugle Boy 6DJ8 white label unfortunately had a microphonics issue that seemed to be ringing constantly just beyond my range of hearing did cause me to have shorter sessions and eventually convince me to change tubes.
> 
> The finer hairs in our inner ear are responsible for detecting higher frequencies, and in the normal course of life these will be the first to start failing. When these hairs are agitated to the point of some beginning to deteriorate on the spot, our ears begin thickening the ear wax to try and protect our hearing.
> ...


 

 I'll try the E12 with crossfeed once my ears feel completely fine and see if it prevents my problems with ear wax build up. I have found solid state amps in general a lot more irritating to my ears than tubes. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I haven't really heard it yet sadly. I haven't really experience a microphonics issue yet in tubes, I do roll tubes every so often though to change things up.


napalmhardcore said:


> My ears are pretty sensitive. I've not tried a headphone tube amp, but my experience thus far with headphones has taught me that I am not suited to long sessions. Tube amps may be an avenue for me to explore in future.


 
 I would give tubes a try sometime and see if they help any. You may like how they sound more as well. It's always worth trying different types of gear out and see what works the best for you.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> The same age as Day[9]


 
 I had to Google Day[9]. I'm still none-the-wiser 


> The finer hairs in our inner ear are responsible for detecting higher frequencies, and in the normal course of life these will be the first to start failing. When these hairs are agitated to the point of some beginning to deteriorate on the spot, our ears begin thickening the ear wax to try and protect our hearing.


 
 I heard what was supposedly a sample of the mosquito noise. Allegedly most people in their mid to late 20's lose the ability to hear it. I'm 30 and could certainly hear it. With a reference note I was able to tell its pitch too. I cannot remember what it was exactly now. I seem to remember it being f or f sharp (I do not have perfect pitch, I had to get a reference note from a keyboard). I've never been one to listen to loud music or abuse my ears in general. I value my hearing greatly.
  
 Anecdote: When I was in primary (elementary) school, I took some classes separately and was tutored alongside the deaf children at my school. Initially they thought I may have difficulty hearing, so I was tested. It turned out that my hearing was in fact above average, My brother would throw tantrums at home and I had learned to block out annoyances. I deemed the teacher to be an annoyance and just blocked her out lol.


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> I had to Google Day[9]. I'm still none-the-wiser
> I heard what was supposedly a sample of the mosquito noise. Allegedly most people in their mid to late 20's lose the ability to hear it. I'm 30 and could certainly hear it. With a reference note I was able to tell its pitch too. I cannot remember what it was exactly now. I seem to remember it being f or f sharp (I do not have perfect pitch, I had to get a reference note from a keyboard). I've never been one to listen to loud music or abuse my ears in general. I value my hearing greatly.
> 
> Anecdote: When I was in primary (elementary) school, I took some classes separately and was tutored alongside the deaf children at my school. Initially they thought I may have difficulty hearing, so I was tested. It turned out that my hearing was in fact above average, My brother would throw tantrums at home and I had learned to block out annoyances. I deemed the teacher to be an annoyance and just blocked her out lol.


 

 I wonder if I can hear it when I'm in my 30s, I'm 23 right now and it's easy to hear. I avoid excessively loud sounds myself, I always cover my ears when something loud is blaring such as a siren or those ear shattering fire alarms they like to do in the dorms. I avoid listening to music loud, it's rare for me to blare my headphones above what I'm usually comfortable with, it's only briefly and only with heavy bass.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> I wonder if I can hear it when I'm in my 30s, I'm 24 right now and it's easy to hear. I avoid excessively loud sounds myself, I always cover my ears when something loud is blaring such as a siren or those ear shattering fire alarms they like to do in the dorms. I avoid listening to music loud, it's rare for me to blare my headphones above what I'm usually comfortable with, it's only briefly and only with heavy bass.


 
 I've always been the same way. If a noise is uncomfortably loud I cover my ears. YMMV but it's kept my ears in good shape. Hopefully it is the same for you


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> I've always been the same way. If a noise is uncomfortably loud I cover my ears. YMMV but it's kept my ears in good shape. Hopefully it is the same for you


 
 It's kept my hearing in good shape as well. I just have to stick with my main system for any moderate volume listening. I like a moderate volume the most, too loud bothers me and I don't like listening to low volume levels except in public as I wear open-backs on the go and I like the music to be more in the background when around others.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> It's kept my hearing in good shape as well. I just have to stick with my main system for any moderate volume listening. I like a moderate volume the most, too loud bothers me and I don't like listening to low volume levels except in public as I wear open-backs on the go and I like the music to be more in the background when around others.


 
 I only really listen to headphones when I'm at home. When people hand me headphones and say "listen to this song" it is normally far too loud for my liking.
  
 It's been a pleasure talking to you but I must get to bed. Laters


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> I only really listen to headphones when I'm at home. When people hand me headphones and say "listen to this song" it is normally far too loud for my liking.
> 
> It's been a pleasure talking to you but I must get to bed. Laters


 

 I haven't really experienced that. Nt one seems to pay any mind to my headphones even when I when I wear my K612s in public. My K712s did catch some looks but that's likely because they are my schools colors. It was nice talking to you to. Later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

zombie_x said:


> It's too bad there's no way for viewers to hear me, Evshrug, and Change talk in a party on the PS4. We all talk smack to each other, well mostly me and Change. I had one of my friends rolling the other night, he literally ran out of breath. Fun times on tha PS4.
> 
> But MLE, you should just try BF4. You ahven't tried it so you don't even know if you'd hate it. It's not as fast and frantic as COD, but still plenty fast. It doesn't hurt to try the game at all. It seems like you have this blind hate for the BF series, but I haven't seen as to why you hate it. As much as I like Ghosts, and I do, it just doesn't hold a candle to BF4.




Owned BF2; MC (loved it), BF: BC, BF:BC2, BF1942, and BF3. Trust me, I know what Battlefield is all about. I also downloaded the PC beta for BF4, same crap as BF3, which I didn't enjoy. Battlefied has been pretty much the same since the first Bad Company. Funny how people whine about CoD, when Battlefield is just the same, but with more vehicles, etc.

Battlefield is too slow paced. Battlefield is very team oriented, which is not what I'm about. It bores me, really. CoD is quick, mindless fun, with nonstop action, no real lulls of action anywhere. It's simple and arcadey, and I love it for that.

I don't hate Battlefield. It's just boring for MY tastes.

All this being said, I haven't played CoD in a week, since I'm going through Tales of Symphonia: DOTNW atm. Tales meets Pokemon, really.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

double post.

Figured I'd use this as an actual post so:

I didn't have much of anything to do at work after all the mess of saturday night party goers, so i decided to start on the Ultrasone HFI-15G review. I've written a sizable chunk of the review, so I guess you guys can expect it in the near future.


----------



## PETEREK

You'll have to have the MixAmp's volume Cranked to use it with the DT990 250 or 600 ohm. I'm not sure about with the X1 though.


----------



## conquerator2

The X1 should work well with most sources. It is 35ohms and high sensitivity... 
Mixamp should drive it fine, according to MLE (and me xP)


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> I had to Google Day[9]. I'm still none-the-wiser
> 
> Anecdote: When I was in primary (elementary) school, I took some classes separately and was tutored alongside the deaf children at my school. Initially they thought I may have difficulty hearing, so I was tested. It turned out that my hearing was in fact above average, My brother would throw tantrums at home and I had learned to block out annoyances. I deemed the teacher to be an annoyance and just blocked her out lol.



Here you go, he primarily plays Starcraft (former US Champion), but plays lots of other stuff on his days off and sometimes talks about life... I really enjoyed when he talked about the importance of being relentlessly positive, it inspires me really.

I have a great ear for detail, very quiet sounds, and pitch (used to tune violin from memory, afterwards not hear any beats when played alongside a tuner, but now I mostly forget which letter corresponds to which pitch since I haven't played in a decade), but sometimes when people talk it takes a second for the meaning to "click" with me, and at 27 years old I can't hear "the most annoying sound in the world" audio sample when my cousins were playing it on their phones. Joke's on them, haha.




axelcloris said:


> Whenever I hear his name I can only think of the Halloween when he played _Amnesia: The Dark Descent_ and ended up being a screaming little girl for several hours. Such a fun few nights of streaming. That game freaked me out when I played through it so it's fun watching others succumb to it's incredible atmosphere and story telling.



I watched him play the sequel, I laughed so hard sometimes but I was glad he stopped playing partway in, because it was obviously scaring him to a point that was painful... He got too psyched out. Never will forget his face when he got so scared he lost his chin in his neck XD


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I watched him play the sequel, I laughed so hard sometimes but I was glad he stopped playing partway in, because it was obviously scaring him to a point that was painful... He got too psyched out. Never will forget his face when he got so scared he lost his chin in his neck XD


 
  
 I'll have to hit up his archive and view him playing Machine for Pigs. I wasn't blown away by the game but if it got to him then I definitely want to see it.


----------



## eXistencelies

axelcloris said:


> In a word: yes. The K701 will be a very noticeable improvement over the sound of the Kraken 7.1. I can't and won't say that the Kraken isn't a decent headset because that just isn't true. But having heard it and a K701 previously, the K701 is more musical and will give you a better representation of what's playing. Razer does have its own surround processing and while it does its job you may find that Dolby Headphone or one of the other surround processors work better for your tastes. You can demo them all in a YouTube video on the first post. The demo uses _Bioshock: Infinite_ to demonstrate the various processing available.
> 
> The K701 do not have surround inherently, so you'll need something to go with them to achieve it. You can even use the Razer software if you're on Windows. And if you're looking for the best in FPS gaming where detail is more important than immersion then you could be better off with the AD700x from Audio Technica. When it comes to sound whoring in FPS games I have yet to come across anything better. And since it's a lot easier to drive than the K701 you won't need to have an amp to push them. With the K701 it's pretty well accepted around these parts that an amp is a must.
> 
> If you're looking for all-rounders in gaming there are other options as well. The K701 is a very nice headphone but requires a pretty beefy amp to really get the most out of it. You could get the Q701 which is easier to drive and then you can get by with a less powerful amp. Heck, you may not even need one to achieve the volume you want. The amp will just help fill out the sound better. The MA900 is also a good choice if you can find it for a decent price, but since it was discontinued prices have pretty much only gone up.


 
  
  
 Thanks for the reply. I really like closed headphones and do not like to hear any external noises. On the Q701 and AD700x I assume those are both open eared headphones, right? Also if I purchase the Q701s (Love the color option they have) can I just plug this up to my after market sound card and not have to use an amp? I am pretty sure these will be heaps better than the 7.1 Krankens out of the box. I also do not have these Krankens plugged into the sound card as they are USB only and use the Razer Synapse software.


----------



## AxelCloris

existencelies said:


> Thanks for the reply. I really like closed headphones and do not like to hear any external noises. On the Q701 and AD700x I assume those are both open eared headphones, right? Also if I purchase the Q701s (Love the color option they have) can I just plug this up to my after market sound card and not have to use an amp? I am pretty sure these will be heaps better than the 7.1 Krankens out of the box. I also do not have these Krankens plugged into the sound card as they are USB only and use the Razer Synapse software.


 
  
 Yes, the Q701 and the AD700x are both open headphones. If you're looking for closed then there are a handful recommended by MLE on the first page. You could run the Q701 directly from a sound card but they do scale with an amp. Even a cheap Schiit amp would give you better positional queues and sound quality. Razer Synapse software is simply the drivers for your Razer gear. It's not the actual DSP. It saves and syncs settings across computers. If you have Razer Surround installed and syned through Synapse then that's how they're processing the surround 7.1. Or the Kraken is using a built in DSP that's part of the USB connection, an external sound card of sorts.


----------



## eXistencelies

axelcloris said:


> Yes, the Q701 and the AD700x are both open headphones. If you're looking for closed then there are a handful recommended by MLE on the first page. You could run the Q701 directly from a sound card but they do scale with an amp. Even a cheap Schiit amp would give you better positional queues and sound quality. Razer Synapse software is simply the drivers for your Razer gear. It's not the actual DSP. It saves and syncs settings across computers. If you have Razer Surround installed and syned through Synapse then that's how they're processing the surround 7.1. Or the Kraken is using a built in DSP that's part of the USB connection, an external sound card of sorts.


 
 After looking I do see the Sennheiser PC350's are closed ear and I may be leaning towards that, but OP did not review those. He only reviewed the PC360's which are open ear. From reading amazon reviews it seems that both the PC350 and PC360s are the same in sound. Just a few differences as seen below:
  





  
 I do like the built in mic as well, but it really isn't something that would stop me from getting a clip on mic.


----------



## eXistencelies

axelcloris said:


> Yes, the Q701 and the AD700x are both open headphones. If you're looking for closed then there are a handful recommended by MLE on the first page. You could run the Q701 directly from a sound card but they do scale with an amp. Even a cheap Schiit amp would give you better positional queues and sound quality. Razer Synapse software is simply the drivers for your Razer gear. It's not the actual DSP. It saves and syncs settings across computers. If you have Razer Surround installed and syned through Synapse then that's how they're processing the surround 7.1. Or the Kraken is using a built in DSP that's part of the USB connection, an external sound card of sorts.


 
 I see. I wish there was a place I could go to and listen to all these headphones. It is hard to pick over the internet without being able to test them. Best Buy and Frys don't have a very good selection of headphones. Especially ones you can put on and try out. I have been looking at the PC350's as they are closed ear. Only thing is MLE did not review the 350's only the 360's. You happen to have any opinion on the 350's?


----------



## AxelCloris

existencelies said:


> I see. I wish there was a place I could go to and listen to all these headphones. It is hard to pick over the internet without being able to test them. Best Buy and Frys don't have a very good selection of headphones. Especially ones you can put on and try out. I have been looking at the PC350's as they are closed ear. Only thing is MLE did not review the 350's only the 360's. You happen to have any opinion on the 350's?


 
  
 I haven't heard the PC350, so I can't say anything about them. Where are you located? There may be local shops that can give demos where you haven't been yet.


----------



## eXistencelies

axelcloris said:


> I haven't heard the PC350, so I can't say anything about them. Where are you located? There may be local shops that can give demos where you haven't been yet.


 
 Houston. I will prob just google around and see.


----------



## martin vegas

existencelies said:


> Houston. I will prob just google around and see.


----------



## eXistencelies

martin vegas said:


>




  
  
 I prefer closed ear and the 350s were the only ones. I went ahead and purcchased the 350s as well as an Asus Xonoar sound card. Did not feel like removing my Razer sound card out of my media PC. I really hope they are much better than these Krankens I have. Never did care for the USB plug in types.


----------



## c0nl

Heya guys,

first of all i would like to thank Mad Lust Envy and everyone who contributed to this thread. It's amazing!

This thread has got me going crazy for better headphones than my old horrible AX Pro's and now my Mixamp/A40's for PS4 gaming. I will be going for a pair of DT 770's (250 Ohm?) so I do not disturb anyone around me plus a pair of AKG Q701's (or K701's, depends of the Q's price, 250€ vs 200€ atm) together with an amp+Mixamp.

Now I'm just not sure of which DT 770 Ohm version I should take and what amp for a reasonable price can drive these and of course the K/Q701 pretty good. I was thinking about getting a Fiio E17 first because of the portability (for the DT 770's) and the built in DAC and sometime later on the Schiit Magni for use together (E17+Magni) with my pc. Does the E17's DAC work with the Magni or would I double amp it like that? This would suit me more than the Magni/Modi combo. Or is the Mixamp already a good DAC for mm pc? I somehow don't think that it actually is, but what do I know. 

TL;DR
-Which DT 770 Ohm version for gaming or is there no big difference?
-Mixamp+E17 powerful enough for the DT 770's and Q701's? The Mixamp+Magni later sure should be?
-For PC, would the E17 as DAC + Magni as amp work or would i double amp it like that? Or should i take a look at other combos?

I would love if someone could drop a sentence or two about it as I'm new to all this. Thanks guys!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Here you go, he primarily plays Starcraft (former US Champion), but plays lots of other stuff on his days off and sometimes talks about life... I really enjoyed when he talked about the importance of being relentlessly positive, it inspires me really.


 
 Sorry for making you explain that. I should have written "I'm none-the-wiser as to your age".
  
 I had a ballpark estimate by the games you were talking about. However there was a margin of error that is dependant on your mothers attitude (given the Goldeneye statement). I figured you were around my age, maybe a little younger, but I wasn't sure how much younger.


----------



## Evshrug

C0nl,
Should be okay with your plan, the only thing is you won't have virtual surround when PC gaming... But should still have a quite nice setup, better than what most game designers expect 


Napalm,
I thought I'd posted a link to Day[9]'s twitch page, and you'd get an idea from looking at him. I'm just a few months different from Sean Plott, we're 27.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> C0nl,
> Should be okay with your plan, the only thing is you won't have virtual surround when PC gaming... But should still have a quite nice setup, better than what most game designers expect
> 
> 
> ...


 
 In my defence, I had been drinking


----------



## autoteleology

Getting a Xonar U3 and a Fiio D07K and hooking it up to my newly repaired SRM-T1 and Lambda NB. Can't wait.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Fiio D07K is slightly on the bright side, so take that into account. (At least brighter than the E17's optical DAC).


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> In my defence, I had been drinking



I've been hearing that a lot around here lately... 

My roommate and I spent most of the day beating Chris & Pierce's co-op campaign in RE:6, despite the reviews we still had a lot of fun! We were just playing through the TV speakers though, there was a scene with a giant invisible snake popping out from different corners and I wished I had my surround going!

I'm going to try filming my surround processor vid before I go to bed... no promise that I'll post it to YouTube or edit it (hopefully won't need to delay it with editing)!

Then maybe I'll have a drink for myself, lol. Water first tho!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I've been hearing that a lot around here lately... I'm going to try filming my surround processor vid before I go to bed... no promise that I'll post it to YouTube or edit it (hopefully won't need to delay it with editing)!
> 
> Then maybe I'll have a drink for myself, lol. Water first tho!


 
 I'll be sure to watch it when it's up


----------



## Evshrug

I'm going to put a disclaimer at the beginning, LOL!

Holy exclamation points tonight Batman, sunshine and (then) freetime must've gone to my head!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Asked Sony about MDR-HW700DS passthrough. Hopefully it can output the processed signal via optical. I doubt it though...
  
 There should be a way, damnit. This thing decodes from PCM/DTS-HD/True HD/DTS/AC3 to headphones (2 DSPs for HRTF).


----------



## NamelessPFG

tus-chan said:


> Getting a Xonar U3 and a Fiio D07K and hooking it up to my newly repaired SRM-T1 and Lambda NB. Can't wait.


 
  
 You got the SRM-T1 fixed? Sweet!


----------



## c0nl

evshrug said:


> C0nl,
> Should be okay with your plan, the only thing is you won't have virtual surround when PC gaming... But should still have a quite nice setup, better than what most game designers expect


 
  
 Thanks Evshrug! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Will not be gaming on my pc anyway, just for the music. Btw, is the E17 powerful enough for the DT 770 250 Ohm and Q701, so i might not even need a Schiit Magni? Heard lots of good things about the Magni, I'm probably getting one anyway sometime later on. (For my PC, Fiio E17 as DAC only -> Fiio L7 or so -> Magni? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 )


----------



## finnjl

All right everyone I have a question. I am looking for the best wireless headphones/headset that I can get for around $200 that will work for PC/PS3/Xbox360. Why wireless? I like the mobility it affords me, but most of all it's because I have a cat that loves to chew on wires haha. It already cost me a few low end headsets.
  
 From the gaming guide I have narrowed my choices to:
 Skullcandy PLYR 1's
 Astro A50's (refurbished runs around $200)
  
 Im looking for anyones input on these or really any other wireless setup that might work. I want the best sound quality I can get given the limitations I've provided. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## conquerator2

finnjl said:


> All right everyone I have a question. I am looking for the best wireless headphones/headset that I can get for around $200 that will work for PC/PS3/Xbox360. Why wireless? I like the mobility it affords me, but most of all it's because I have a cat that loves to chew on wires haha. It already cost me a few low end headsets.
> 
> From the gaming guide I have narrowed my choices to:
> Skullcandy PLYR 1's
> ...




The Plyr is your best bet I believe


----------



## autoteleology

namelesspfg said:


> You got the SRM-T1 fixed? Sweet!


 
  
 Well, it isn't fixed yet. It's in Accutech's hands still. But yeah.


----------



## autoteleology

mad lust envy said:


> The Fiio D07K is slightly on the bright side, so take that into account. (At least brighter than the E17's optical DAC).


 
  
 That's fine - turns out the Xonar U3 has a global OS software EQ (something I've been looking for for a long time) - I'll be able to adjust frequency response to my liking


----------



## mmencius

mad lust envy said:


> Owned BF2; MC (loved it), BF: BC, BF:BC2, BF1942, and BF3. Trust me, I know what Battlefield is all about. I also downloaded the PC beta for BF4, same crap as BF3, which I didn't enjoy. Battlefied has been pretty much the same since the first Bad Company. Funny how people whine about CoD, when Battlefield is just the same, but with more vehicles, etc.
> 
> Battlefield is too slow paced. Battlefield is very team oriented, which is not what I'm about. It bores me, really. CoD is quick, mindless fun, with nonstop action, no real lulls of action anywhere. It's simple and arcadey, and I love it for that.
> 
> ...


 
 If you want Tales meets Pokemon but NOT bad and annoying (I loved ToS but watching my sister play DOTNW I see everything that people didn't like about that game), play Ni No Kuni.


----------



## mmencius

brobuzz said:


> Just bought a Astro Mixamp for my PS3. Any impressions on using it with some 668Bs?


 
 I'm using a 668B plugged into a DSS 1. I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong (or several things wrong). I know this thread isn't usually used for troubleshooting, but... whatever, I'll ask some questions and give some opinions.
  
 1. Initially, when I set things up as best I could, I got no sound on certain games. I had run optical digital and USB from PS3 to the DSS; I had set the PS3 audio output to optical digital, and I also tried setting "audio multi-output" to both off and on, and I got no sound. Specifically, I got sound on Shadow of the Colossus and Limbo, but no sound on Bioshock Infinite or Puppeteer.
 The problem only resolved when I went into the audio output settings and *disabled DTS.* When I told it just to output in Dolby Digital 5.1, AAC, linear PCM, but no DTS, then I got sound in Bioshock Infinite and Puppeteer.
  
 2. This is even stranger. So the DSS has four lights. In the instruction manual, it states that its "Dolby ProLogic" light will be illuminated if the DSS is receiving only a stereo signal. While its "Dolby headphone" light is illuminated if it gets a 5.1 signal.
 The weird thing is: I got a 5.1 signal playing Shadow of the Colossus, but *I only got a stereo signal with Bioshock Infinite*. That's really weird as I saw all those youtube vids displaying various types of surround sound processing used in that game. So what's with that?
 And yet, even though that light is on, there is still a difference between setting the DSS to "Dolby bypass" (which means leave the sound as stereo without processing) and not activating the bypass. In Bioshock Infinite and all games.
  
 Am I being stupid or missing something? I notice many people recommending two amps (eg Mixamp + E12 or something). Do I need another amp? I don't care about voice chat.
  
 My impression of sound:
 ..... it looks like I might prefer plain stereo. The surround processing didn't do too much to the sound quality with two exceptions:
 a) often "pleasant bass" (such as cello or a gentle timpani beat) was seriously diminished, to the extent that I was only aware of it (without a lot of concentration) in stereo mode, not surround mode. Thumpier bass was unaffected.
 b) big difference in treble. The brightness of the Superlux was significantly dampened with the surround processing on. This might appeal to a lot of people. As for me, it depended on my taste at the minute. I thought the treble in stereo sounded very pleasant at certain moments of Shadow, lifting and wide. Other times, particularly in Puppeteer and Infinite, it was pretty screechy in stereo, and surround was helpful there.
  
 There was something else: I felt that stereo can sound... more immersive and surrounding than surround... does anyone else feel this? Obviously surround is more positionally accurate, but in terms of a feeling of immersion, sometimes stereo was doing the trick more for me.


----------



## finnjl

conquerator2 said:


> The Plyr is your best bet I believe


 
 So you think the plyr 1 is enough of an improvement over the a50's? I haven't had the chance to listen to either of these but the biggest knock on the a50's seems to be the price. With only about a $20 difference do you still believe the Plyrs are still more worth it than the a50's?


----------



## conquerator2

mmencius said:


> I'm using a 668B plugged into a DSS 1. I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong (or several things wrong). I know this thread isn't usually used for troubleshooting, but... whatever, I'll ask some questions and give some opinions.
> 
> 1. Initially, when I set things up as best I could, I got no sound on certain games. I had run optical digital and USB from PS3 to the DSS; I had set the PS3 audio output to optical digital, and I also tried setting "audio multi-output" to both off and on, and I got no sound. Specifically, I got sound on Shadow of the Colossus and Limbo, but no sound on Bioshock Infinite or Puppeteer.
> The problem only resolved when I went into the audio output settings and *disabled DTS.* When I told it just to output in Dolby Digital 5.1, AAC, linear PCM, but no DTS, then I got sound in Bioshock Infinite and Puppeteer.
> ...




Well, I think what you described is correct. 
I have mine setup through the optical toslink, USB does not allow other than bare stereo on PS4 and no sound at all on PS3.
Some games don't support DTS, others do. Though as long as at least Digital 5.1 is enabled, you should be getting Dolby Headphone at all times.

Try comparing a game that supports DTS and one that does not and see if YOU can tell a difference. If not, then it might just be a display error or something 
I found no difference between just digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1.
An external amplifier has no effect on DSP whatsoever. 

Immersion... Well, I find the sound in bypass mode meh. So I use DH for games and a better DAC/amp when listening to music via desktop


----------



## dakanao

I want to buy the DNA pro, but what you said about the inconsistent soundstage really puts me off.


----------



## mmencius

conquerator2 said:


> Well, I think what you described is correct.
> I have mine setup through the optical toslink, USB does not allow other than bare stereo on PS4 and no sound at all on PS3.
> Some games don't support DTS, others do. Though as long as at least Digital 5.1 is enabled, you should be getting Dolby Headphone at all times.
> 
> ...


 
 Bioshock Infinite definitely supports DTS (says so in the credits etc) and Dolby Headphone (see youtube vids) and I'm getting neither, so what gives.
 I think I need a better amp. What's a good amp to drive the AKG 7xx range?


----------



## conquerator2

mmencius said:


> Bioshock Infinite definitely supports DTS (says so in the credits etc) and Dolby Headphone (see youtube vids) and I'm getting neither, so what gives.
> I think I need a better amp. What's a good amp to drive the AKG 7xx range?




Schiit Asgard, Matrix Mstage, some tube amps too.
The absence of DH is strange though and not something an amp will fix. Maybe the DSS is malfunctioning.


----------



## Change is Good

K712 in the classifieds for $325. Somebody jump on it! *cough* *MLE* *cough*


----------



## thecalculator

Just got my new toys in today. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://s27.postimg.org/40z1dvo1v/IMAG0431.jpg


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> Owned BF2; MC (loved it), BF: BC, BF:BC2, BF1942, and BF3. Trust me, I know what Battlefield is all about. I also downloaded the PC beta for BF4, same crap as BF3, which I didn't enjoy. Battlefied has been pretty much the same since the first Bad Company. Funny how people whine about CoD, when Battlefield is just the same, but with more vehicles, etc.
> 
> Battlefield is too slow paced. Battlefield is very team oriented, which is not what I'm about. It bores me, really. CoD is quick, mindless fun, with nonstop action, no real lulls of action anywhere. It's simple and arcadey, and I love it for that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Based on this post, I have to ask if you've played and enjoyed Quake Live or any Unreal Tournament games?


----------



## thecalculator

Just got my Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD and AkG k712 Pros in today. Woot WOoT!
  
 awesome thread!


----------



## Stillhart

finnjl said:


> So you think the plyr 1 is enough of an improvement over the a50's? I haven't had the chance to listen to either of these but the biggest knock on the a50's seems to be the price. With only about a $20 difference do you still believe the Plyrs are still more worth it than the a50's?


 
  
 I think you'll find that your questions are answered in the very first post of this thread.


----------



## frankefrum

So, I am in the market for headphones. I recently sold my PC360's which have been the only above average headphones I have ever owned. I am far from being an audiophile, and I honestly know just enough about audio to get myself into trouble. 

So, I am looking to this community which I often lurk around for guidance.

First, I must say that I bought the PC360s because of their performance in gaming and they also sound great for single player gaming for the most part. However, it has occurred to me after owning this set of cans that I have a (probably immature) desire to experience more bass in my games. I don't like muddy bass and I don't want it to punch me in the ear drums either. However, i do want to experience the thump. I want to feel the growl and the deep in your heart bass that immerses you and feels more like you are at the theater. I don't want to sacrifice the mids or highs. I certainly don't want to strain to hear vocals and instruments. If I am playing something like Halo's campaign and that bad ass theme kicks in I want to hear that orchestra going at it. But again, I want meaty bass underlying the whole deal. So, what suggestions do you guys have for me?

My budget is $400. I want that to go towards the headphones. I won't have enough to get an amp until maybe a month or two down the road. It is possible if I go with something like the X1s I don't even worry about an amp. However, it sounds like most other phones I'm interested in will require some extra power to get the true experience .

I like the idea of open but I am not opposed to closed, just for the record. 

MLE seems to really have a thing for the K712 pros, but I also know he favors mids. At the same time his recommendation is hard to ignore for those bad boys. So, another question besides just recommending a set, does anyone have experience with the 712 pros and can you comment on the bass? Is it immersive and a huge step up from the pc360s, or is it gonna be a disappointment for someone hunting rich bass?Also, how disappointed will I be running this only through the mix amp for a couple months?

Thanks everyone!


----------



## zedetach

Hi, 
  
 I recently purchased a 1 1/2 year old ultrsone pro 900 with kees mod applied and I am finding it completely unusable for gaming on the ps3 due to the extremely piercing highs. I've got it paired with the astro mixamp and when I played MGS : Ground Zeroes, every gunshot sounded like glass shattering  It was just too painful to hear. The bass was also non-existent. Gaming on the pc was a little more forgiving as I could reduce the unwanted frequencies through an equaliser with the bass sounding just about right. Thus my question is, is there anything that I could do to make the cans practical for console use? FYI I've got a pair of Astro a40s (2011 edition) and they sound so much more balanced.


----------



## conquerator2

zedetach said:


> Hi,
> 
> I recently purchased a 1 1/2 year old ultrsone pro 900 with kees mod applied and I am finding it completely unusable for gaming on the ps3 due to the extremely piercing highs. I've got it paired with the astro mixamp and when I played MGS : Ground Zeroes, every gunshot sounded like glass shattering  It was just too painful to hear. The bass was also non-existent. Gaming on the pc was a little more forgiving as I could reduce the unwanted frequencies through an equaliser with the bass sounding just about right. Thus my question is, is there anything that I could do to make the cans practical for console use? FYI I've got a pair of Astro a40s (2011 edition) and they sound so much more balanced.




I'd add something like the Fiio E11 (around 50$) to the chain.
It sounds somewhat smooth and warm and has an adjustable bass boost.
I've been using the E11 with the Pro900 for quite some time and liked it


----------



## benbenkr

mmencius said:


> I'm using a 668B plugged into a DSS 1. I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong (or several things wrong). I know this thread isn't usually used for troubleshooting, but... whatever, I'll ask some questions and give some opinions.
> 
> 1. Initially, when I set things up as best I could, I got no sound on certain games. I had run optical digital and USB from PS3 to the DSS; I had set the PS3 audio output to optical digital, and I also tried setting "audio multi-output" to both off and on, and I got no sound. Specifically, I got sound on Shadow of the Colossus and Limbo, but no sound on Bioshock Infinite or Puppeteer.
> The problem only resolved when I went into the audio output settings and *disabled DTS.* When I told it just to output in Dolby Digital 5.1, AAC, linear PCM, but no DTS, then I got sound in Bioshock Infinite and Puppeteer.
> ...


 
  
 Something is obviously wrong with your DSS. No you do not need a Mixamp because the Mixamp does pretty much same thing as the DSS, provide Dolby Headphone.
  
 1) Yes, you don't enable DTS on optical input setup page. The DSS does not decode DTS, end of story.
 The reason you get sound on SotC and Limbo is because both games are internally stereo. SotC never had its audio tracks remixed into DD5.1.
  
 2) This is weird because you AREN'T suppose to get DD5.1 with SotC, what you are listening to is stereo being upmixed into 7.1 through PLIIx. The videos you've been watching on YT of Bioshock Infinite are the PC versions, not console. Bioshock Infinite on the PS3 does not have support for DD5.1, sounds stupid right? Because it is. Irrational Games knew about the bug but they never really bothered to fix it as the game still outputs LPCM 5.1. Unfortunately for headphone and DH users, this means they're SOL. They acknowledged the problem on their forums but never got arround to fixing it, for God knows what reason.
  
 You may feel that stereo is more immersive because it is a lot more upfront to your ears. DH (and any other forms of VSS) opens up the soundstsage. That's a personal and subjective preference.
 Also, if you were testing DH on SotC then you are doing it wrong because SotC does not have DD5.1 to begin with. You're listening to PLIIx, which sounds subpar in most cases.


----------



## Bleach1508

OK i've finally got my OG CAL and DSS (first version) and I can't wait to try them out! Too bad I won't have time to try them out until the weekend 
  
 Anyway, thanks everyone for the help (directly and indirectly). Just by reading the forum i've learned so much about headphones, amp VSS and so much more !
 so big round of applause to all of you


----------



## Evshrug

mmencius said:


> Bioshock Infinite definitely supports DTS (says so in the credits etc) and Dolby Headphone (see youtube vids) and I'm getting neither, so what gives.
> I think I need a better amp. What's a good amp to drive the AKG 7xx range?



From your impression, it seems like you're describing stereo up sampling, not Dolby headphone fed by a Dolby digital live 5.1 feed (DDL). I think that dolby's up sampling does have the treble-mellowing effect you mentioned, but overall was wishy-washy and dull.
What Benbenkr said was pretty illuminating about console versions of those games, and makes me wonder if you have the Dolby bitstreaming mix turned on? I can't exactly help here, the PS4 is my first Sony console, but I believe Mad added a brief "how-to" section in the guide. The DSS (and most of the other standalone sound processors) cannot decode DTS at all, it's PCM, Dolby, analogue input, or nothing at all.
The Superlux is not a generic AKG 7xx rebrand, the treble is stronger and overall more grainy on what you have. A warmer amp like a FiiO E11 may help smooth things out in general for you, though you should probably also double-check your sound settings.





frankefrum said:


> So, I am looking to this community which I often lurk around for guidance.
> 
> However, i do want to experience the thump. I want to feel the growl and the deep in your heart bass that immerses you and feels more like you are at the theater.
> 
> MLE seems to really have a thing for the K712 pros, but I also know he favors mids.



Oh, you know, Do you? 
Across his headphone reviews, he values good representation of all frequencies but favors bass, even in general a bit of a V-shaped frequency response. The X1's sound like medicine for you, but "Dat Bass" may not be the sole thing that makes a headphone more involving and fun. I found my AKG's to be more forward and involving (Q701 & k712) than the generally bit more laid-back Sennheiser house sound.

The X1 is pretty good, but pretty much all wired headphones above $80 scale up with amping (some more than others). If you have about $400, then maybe you'd be better off overall by not neglecting the signal chain, getting something like a Q701 or K702 (k612 is engaging but has more linear neutral bass than the other two) and a decent starter amp like a schiit Vali for $120.

The only way to feel bass in your heart/chest like in a theater (unless you are speaking metaphorically) is with a subwoofer. I got one for my stereo system, which to me sounds nicer than the average theater bloat. Something to think about. Also, listen once to a Sony XB500... That will either instantly mature your bass tastes or irrevocably make you a basshead, lol


----------



## frankefrum

Well, I thought I knew...Haha...
  
 I remember reading one of his posts mentioning he has been leaning towards mids lately. However, in my case, I appreciate the idea of getting the chain of sound in check. However, I prefer the idea of spending a lot now on just the headphones so that I am not looking at upgrading anytime soon. I rather get the ones that will keep me thoroughly happy for a long time and suffer for a couple months without an amp. As I mentioned I am going through the mixamp so that should help a tad, but in the future I will get a warm amp...
  
 So...you think he favors bass...this is interesting... because he seems to be in love with the K712 pros and the Fiio E12. i figured this set was very mid forward and somewhat analytical with a touch of bass (because I thought he loved very very strong mids and natural bass)...perhaps with that particular amp the bass shines through. 
  
 Also, I probably overstated the bass I want from the headphones. I favor a pretty evenly represented sound, but after owning the PC360's, I really do crave some FUN bass to go along with the forward mids and treb.
  
 MLE...can you weigh in on this? 
  
 I am looking to buy something by Friday!


----------



## MightySam06

Hey guys,  I'm looking to pair an amp up with the Astro Mix amp to give me more juice for the 80ohm DT770 Pro's.  I'm thinking about the Fiio E12 'Mont Blanc' which MLE recommended on page one of this guide.  Just want to verify the setup will work without issue and it pairs up well with the DT770 Pro's? If not, can somebody recommend something better for roughly the same price or cheaper for that matter?  I appreciate any responses.  Thanks.


----------



## Murder Mike

IMO the bass of the Annie with the NFB 11.32 is very clean and detailed. The K712 Pro should be fairly similar. It's not going to blow your mind with power, but it will be a step up in clarity and excitement from the PC360s for sure. You would want to add a basic amp to the chain. The Magni/Vali/O2/E09K/etc should be more than up to the task.
  
 Something like the X1 would provide more bass, but it wouldn't be as clean or detailed from all accounts I've heard. So it all comes down to budget and preference.


----------



## Evshrug

frankefrum said:


> Well, I thought I knew...Haha...
> 
> I remember reading one of his posts mentioning he has been leaning towards mids lately.
> 
> ...



The K712 that mad reviewed was the one I loaned him. I also have an E12, which doesn't particularly add warmth (pretty colorless unless you use the bass boost switch).

The K712 is a gentler u shaped freq-curve (graphs available at inner fidelity and headroom), with elevated/forward bass that is below the point where bass usually starts to distort, it dips as it reaches the mids but mostly stays near the neutral point, and then a bit of energy/sparkle to the treble. It HAS stronger bass, and it is engaging in a way that excites me but doesn't do things too much to become irritating, so IMO it's a longer term headphone to have (my current "on a desert island") than the more colored X1.

I used my Mixamp 5.8 with my K712 plugged straight in, often in fact, it sounds very good. The Mixamp has relatively close to the output power of an iPod Classic, so loudness isn't a problem, but double amping just kindof finishes off the weight of impact and helps refine & control sound reproduction.

Before the K712, I was happy with the Q701, which is very similar, for about a year and a half.


----------



## frankefrum

evshrug said:


> The K712 that mad reviewed was the one I loaned him. I also have an E12, which doesn't particularly add warmth (pretty colorless unless you use the bass boost switch).
> 
> The K712 is a gentler u shaped freq-curve (graphs available at inner fidelity and headroom), with elevated/forward bass that is below the point where bass usually starts to distort, it dips as it reaches the mids but mostly stays near the neutral point, and then a bit of energy/sparkle to the treble. It HAS stronger bass, and it is engaging in a way that excites me but doesn't do things too much to become irritating, so IMO it's a longer term headphone to have (my current "on a desert island") than the more colored X1.
> 
> ...





>





>





> Wow, this is excellent information. I really appreciate this and it almost seals the deal for me on buying the K712 pro...do you have an opinion on the K712pro vs the Annie? Should I be considering the Annie at all? I know it sounds dumb, but I really don't care for the orange color on the K712pro. LOL. As a FSU alum, it reminds me too much of our rival in both the Gators and Miami. LOL. All joking aside, I can put up with the color if it is the best headphone for me, but seriously, just HOW much different are these from the Annies?


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> IMO the bass of the Annie with the NFB 11.32 is very clean and detailed. The K712 Pro should be fairly similar. It's not going to blow your mind with power, but it will be a step up in clarity and excitement from the PC360s for sure. You would want to add a basic amp to the chain. The Magni/Vali/O2/E09K/etc should be more than up to the task.
> 
> Something like the X1 would provide more bass, but it wouldn't be as clean or detailed from all accounts I've heard. So it all comes down to budget and preference.


 
 I just want to throw in there that a little bit of amping does wonders for tightening up the X1's bass.  I actually like these a lot better with an amp.  Even my new E11 adds a nice amount of presence and authority (and yes, I'm not talking about volume) to the X1, which doesn't "need" amping like the AKG's.
  
 I think the Q/K7 series is a fantastic headphone; I prefer my Q701 to my X1.  But the X1 isn't bad, it's just got a different sound signature and it sounds like Frank may prefer them... especially with an amp.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hi guys. I've heard some of you talking about using various AKG 700 series headphones with the K702 anniversary pads. Are you talking about the ones that come standard with the Annies or the after-market gel ones?


----------



## Murder Mike

napalmhardcore said:


> Hi guys. I've heard some of you talking about using various AKG 700 series headphones with the K702 anniversary pads. Are you talking about the ones that come standard with the Annies or the after-market gel ones?


 
  
 The standard memory foam K702 65th Anniversary pads.


----------



## kman1211

My new system is finally complete. The K712 is really starting to strut it's stuff over the K612.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

murder mike said:


> The standard memory foam K702 65th Anniversary pads.


 
 Thanks. I suspected that was the case but just wanted clarification. Given that AKG design their headphones with replaceable ear pads, I'm surprised they don't offer more options for more of their headphones. I was idly searching to see if there were memory foam pads available for the K240 mkii's a while back. I found some on ebay, but I didn't trust that they were actually memory foam or decent quality given the cheap price.


----------



## Evshrug

frankefrum said:


> K712 vs Annie?



Oh I understand color preference completely! The orange headband isn't aesthetically too loud in person, IMO, but I personally would like to be a TRON good guy rather than bad guy. I haven't heard an Annie myself... I imagine that the sonic difference is just above being imagination, a slight sonic tweak, but the Annie's are toned like Q701 but with tighter manufacturing tolerances. I think Mad mentioned a few differences, like the K712 headband is shaped differently and the earcups were shallower...

These are two similar apples. An X1 is an orange 

Neither would be a lemon?




kman1211 said:


> My new system is finally complete. The K712 is really starting to strut it's stuff over the K612.




Nice, did the DAC widen the difference that much more?
For some reason, your first sentence made me think of Darth Vader: "Now your conversion is complete!"


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Nice, did the DAC widen the difference that much more?
> For some reason, your first sentence made me think of Darth Vader: "Now your conversion is complete!"


 
 The DAC widened the difference a good deal, the new cable made the difference even larger. They now sound clearer, more transparent, detailed, textured, refined, dynamic, powerful, etc. compared to the K612.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Oh I understand color preference completely! The orange headband isn't aesthetically too loud in person, IMO, but I personally would like to be a TRON good guy rather than bad guy. I haven't heard an Annie myself... I imagine that the sonic difference is just above being imagination, a slight sonic tweak, but the Annie's are toned like Q701 but with tighter manufacturing tolerances. I think Mad mentioned a few differences, like the K712 headband is shaped differently and the earcups were shallower...
> 
> These are two similar apples. An X1 is an orange
> 
> ...


 
  
 No, neither are lemons.  It's funny; I really didn't like the X1 all that much when I first got it.  Since I've upgraded my whole signal path (FLAC files, amp, dac, etc), the X1 sounds a lot better.  It's still apples and oranges, but I can definitely see what I wasn't seeing before.... or hearing I guess.  I haven't heard the K712/Annies but I suspect they still can't compare to the X1 for bass presence.  I use my X1 at work and Q701 at home and they both sound good in their own ways.  The more "fun" sound of the X1 goes well with my noisy work environment where the detail-crazy Q701 would lose a lot of what makes it special.
  
 It's good to see the AKG's getting more love in this thread these days.  But it's always important to realize why the X1 was FOTM before the K712.  It's weird seeing the FOTM jump more than $100, so having a cheaper option is good.


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> It's good to see the AKG's getting more love in this thread these days.  But it's always important to realize why the X1 was FOTM before the K712.  It's weird seeing the FOTM jump more than $100, so having a cheaper option is good.


 
  
 Everything gets a FOTM at some point it seems. The Annies were pretty FOTM a while back and they're pretty much the same thing as the K712 Pro. The cycle will continue on.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> Everything gets a FOTM at some point it seems. The Annies were pretty FOTM a while back and they're pretty much the same thing as the K712 Pro. The cycle will continue on.


 
  
 I feel bad for Change.  He really wanted the K612 to be the next FOTM, but it seems to be getting overshadowed by the K712.  Of course the K712 costs more than double and I suspect it doesn't sound more than twice as good.


----------



## kman1211

stillhart said:


> I feel bad for Change.  He really wanted the K612 to be the next FOTM, but it seems to be getting overshadowed by the K712.  Of course the K712 costs more than double and I suspect it doesn't sound more than twice as good.


 

 I want the K612 to be the next FOTM myself as I feel the K712 is probably more than people are willing to pay. The K712 needs a more expensive/better system to make it sound noticeably better than the K612, otherwise it honestly doesn't really sound any better.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> I feel bad for Change.  He really wanted the K612 to be the next FOTM, but it seems to be getting overshadowed by the K712.  Of course the K712 costs more than double and I suspect it doesn't sound more than twice as good.




Exactly it is important to realize that the K712 is even 3x more expensive (in Europe).
For $200 (same price for us Europeans) you're getting a hell of a headphone. 
I still regard it as the best sounding headphone in the ~200$ price range. Neutral reference class that is.
Sure it's not perfect, but I don't feel like I am missing something which is impressive. It's also a great all-rounder.
It is also, however, very revealing and a bit picky! That's something people don't expect in that price range.
In case of K612 I wouldn't be ashamed to pay even 300$ for it... I think it absolutely trounces over most of the headphones <400$/500$.


----------



## Stillhart

kman1211 said:


> I want the K612 to be the next FOTM myself as I feel the K712 is probably more than people are willing to pay. The K712 needs a more expensive/better system to make it sound noticeably better than the K612, otherwise it honestly doesn't really sound any better.


 
  
 I'd like to see someone do a head to head of the modded Q701 and the K612.  The Q can be had for pretty cheap these days, and there are a lot of used ones floating about so you can save even more money.  I'm wondering which of these is the better choice overall given that the pricing is really close.  All other things equal, the Q701 has removable cable...


----------



## mmencius

So I'm currently disappointed with the sound quality I'm getting from the DSS1 + Superlux 668b. I actually listened to some Schubert (my favourite piano trio, in B flat) on YT with nothing but headphones plugged directly into 3.5mm jack on PC and it sounded better than what my PS3 is outputting. I don't mind the treble of the Superlux... reminds me of my own (imperfect) violin playing back in the day .
  
 I think I've been stupid. I think I've misunderstood suggestions, and that the DSS by itself is only for vss processing, not for amping (of any decent sound quality), and that I should get an actual bona fide amp. Can someone confirm this?
  
 I'm thinking of the Schiit Magni. Since it's $100, I'll only get it if it will also power the harder to drive headphones (DT880, K701/702) for when I plan to upgrade. Will it?
  
 PS: still not sure why the DSS light for DD is activating during SOTC.


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> I'm thinking of the Schiit Magni. Since it's $100, I'll only get it if it will also power the harder to drive headphones (DT880, K701/702) for when I plan to upgrade. Will it?


 
  
 Yep.  Enjoy!


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I'd like to see someone do a head to head of the modded Q701 and the K612.  The Q can be had for pretty cheap these days, and there are a lot of used ones floating about so you can save even more money.  I'm wondering which of these is the better choice overall given that the pricing is really close.  All other things equal, the Q701 has removable cable...



Hopefully I'll find out. I still think the Q701 is a better value, in many ways a giant killer that sets the bar very high... but the K712 is a bit better, not a better value but it would be my desert island choice 




mmencius said:


> I think I've misunderstood suggestions, and that the DSS by itself is only for vss processing, not for amping (of any decent sound quality), and that I should get an actual bona fide amp. Can someone confirm this?
> 
> I'm thinking of the Schiit Magni. Since it's $100, I'll only get it if it will also power the harder to drive headphones (DT880, K701/702) for when I plan to upgrade. Will it?
> 
> PS: still not sure why the DSS light for DD is activating during SOTC.




Yes! The DSS is for processing. I guess you weren't here while we talked about "double" amping, but generally plugging a dedicated headphone amp into your source (DSS, Mixamp, iPod, etc) is recommended... I think that before you buy ANY headphone $150 and up, you should buy an amp. Pretty much any headphone scales up with amping, but higher end headphones (Mid-Fi +) really scale up and increase the difference between headphones.

The Magni is quite capable and has plenty of power for all but the very hardest to drive headphones, and is mostly pretty I colorless so it doesn't affect the "native" sound of a connected headphone. The Vali is similar priced, but better suited for headphones over 50 ohms (esp less sensitive headphones...), a good tube option. The Vali imparts a bit of the euphoric tube sound at a great price, the downside is that it's a poor choice to use with sensitive IEMs (ringing noise).


----------



## eXistencelies

Ok so I received my Q701 and Essence STX sound card last night. Got everything together with no problem using the UNi drivers. I then put the headphone option on and clicked on dolby headphone, 6 channel and 44k. It is very very weird sounding. Like everything has an echo to it. Even in game voice it somewhat has an echo. I came from a gaming 7.1 headset and it is conpletely different. I am not sure if I like this dolby sound. Is it suppose to sound like that? I then switched it to Hi-Fi and it seems 10x better. Not sure if something is wrong or dolby always sounds echoed in game?


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## appsmarsterx

existencelies said:


> Ok so I received my Q701 and Essence STX sound card last night. Got everything together with no problem using the UNi drivers. I then put the headphone option on and clicked on dolby headphone, 6 channel and 44k. It is very very weird sounding. Like everything has an echo to it. Even in game voice it somewhat has an echo. I came from a gaming 7.1 headset and it is conpletely different. I am not sure if I like this dolby sound. Is it suppose to sound like that? I then switched it to Hi-Fi and it seems 10x better. Not sure if something is wrong or dolby always sounds echoed in game?




have you tried using the medium sized room setting ? usually dsp algorithms adds echo including Dolby headphone. Dolby Home Theater V4 is the only dsp algorithm I found which has minimum echoing compared to other algorithms .


----------



## conquerator2

YAY!
Finally


----------



## eXistencelies

appsmarsterx said:


> have you tried using the medium sized room setting ? usually dsp algorithms adds echo including Dolby headphone. Dolby Home Theater V4 is the only dsp algorithm I found which has minimum echoing compared to other algorithms .


 
 I set it to DH1, but that was after I played. Have yet to try it with DH1 as it was 1am last night and I wanted to get to bed. I think default it sets itself to DH2. I don't think this STX has the option of DHT V4 unless I am wrong. I am new to this dolby thing. I also have the onboard sound enabled as I use my 5.1 speakers sometimes. Not sure if that would have any affect on it?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


>




 Is there a version without a video?  Better yet, just tell me if there's anything about 3d audio...


----------



## appsmarsterx

existencelies said:


> I don't think this STX has the option of DHT V4 unless I am wrong.


 
  
 STX only supports Dolby headphone. DHTv4 is the latest Dolby dsp algorithm, which is currently in Phoebus, U7. 
  
  


existencelies said:


> I also have the onboard sound enabled as I use my 5.1 speakers sometimes. Not sure if that would have any affect on it?


 
  
 don't worry. it shouldn't affect anything.


----------



## Evshrug

existencelies said:


> Ok so I received my Q701 and Essence STX sound card last night. Got everything together with no problem using the UNi drivers. I then put the headphone option on and clicked on dolby headphone, 6 channel and 44k. It is very very weird sounding. Like everything has an echo to it. Even in game voice it somewhat has an echo. I came from a gaming 7.1 headset and it is conpletely different. I am not sure if I like this dolby sound. Is it suppose to sound like that? I then switched it to Hi-Fi and it seems 10x better. Not sure if something is wrong or dolby always sounds echoed in game?



Used to be something that bothered me a lot, so when I heard Creative's option I was overjoyed how natural it sounded by comparison. Now however, I can honestly say my brain adjusted, it's not that I ignore it now, I actually don't perceive echo while gaming anymore unless I just switched from my Recon3D to my DSS.



appsmarsterx said:


> have you tried using the medium sized room setting ? usually dsp algorithms adds echo including Dolby headphone. Dolby Home Theater V4 is the only dsp algorithm I found which has minimum echoing compared to other algorithms .



I never heard echoing with Creative's THX TruStudio Pro or SBX Pro Studio processing, it all seems to be a tonal and volume balance change that seems more realistic to me.




conquerator2 said:


> YAY!
> Finally




?


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Used to be something that bothered me a lot, so when I heard Creative's option I was overjoyed how natural it sounded by comparison. Now however, I can honestly say my brain adjusted, it's not that I ignore it now, I actually don't perceive echo while gaming anymore unless I just switched from my Recon3D to my DSS.
> I never heard echoing with Creative's THX TruStudio Pro or SBX Pro Studio processing, it all seems to be a tonal and volume balance change that seems more realistic to me.
> ?




PS4 v1.70 
Should have quoted.

Also, I don't hear echo either. Ears and brain need some time to adjust


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Is there a version without a video?  Better yet, just tell me if there's anything about 3d audio...




Video wasn't bad, nice British accent.
No "free" 3D audio mentioned, just some HDMI output options. Also stuff like you can use the touchpad as a cursor to type with, you can turn off HDCP while gaming, and there's a big new video clip editing suite (and you can export videos to USB flash sticks with FAT32 formatting).


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Video wasn't bad, nice British accent.
> No "free" 3D audio mentioned, just some HDMI output options. Also stuff like you can use the touchpad as a cursor to type with, you can turn off HDCP while gaming, and there's a big new video clip editing suite (and you can export videos to USB flash sticks with FAT32 formatting).


 
  
 So basically a bunch of stuff that looks good in the marketing materials, but nobody will ever use.  Got it.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Video wasn't bad, nice British accent.
> No "free" 3D audio mentioned, just some HDMI output options. Also stuff like you can use the touchpad as a cursor to type with, you can turn off HDCP while gaming, and there's a big new video clip editing suite (and you can export videos to USB flash sticks with FAT32 formatting).


 

 You can still only put the videos up on facebook..twitch is now in 720p..you can upload to a 32gb memory stick..i will check it out if you can upload to youtube from a 16gb memory stick, but I doubt it!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

martin vegas said:


>




 Did they ever fix the issue whereby the audio would come out through both HDMI and optical? I don't know why they changed that from how it was on PS3.


----------



## Evshrug

If you can put a common-format video file on a USB stick, you can open it on a computer and post it anywhere.

Mine plays audio through both at (relatively) the same time. I just turn the volume all the way down on my TV/Monitor.


----------



## eXistencelies

appsmarsterx said:


> STX only supports Dolby headphone. DHTv4 is the latest Dolby dsp algorithm, which is currently in Phoebus, U7.
> 
> 
> 
> don't worry. it shouldn't affect anything.


 
  
 So what you're saying is the STX is outdated compared to the Phoebus or do they have different purpose?


evshrug said:


> Used to be something that bothered me a lot, so when I heard Creative's option I was overjoyed how natural it sounded by comparison. Now however, I can honestly say my brain adjusted, it's not that I ignore it now, I actually don't perceive echo while gaming anymore unless I just switched from my Recon3D to my DSS.
> I never heard echoing with Creative's THX TruStudio Pro or SBX Pro Studio processing, it all seems to be a tonal and volume balance change that seems more realistic to me.
> ?


 
 Not sure what you are saying by this. You mean you had the STX and dropped it for creative and like creative now?


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> If you can put a common-format video file on a USB stick, you can open it on a computer and post it anywhere.
> 
> Mine plays audio through both at (relatively) the same time. I just turn the volume all the way down on my TV/Monitor.


 

 I have just tried with a 16gb one but it wouldn't work..only 32gb and up will work..i have a 4gb one and two 8gb ones and a 16gb one..if I see a 32gb one for cheap somewhere I will try again!


----------



## appsmarsterx

existencelies said:


> So what you're saying is the STX is outdated compared to the Phoebus or do they have different purpose?


 
  
 imo, not outdated at all . STX has the superior amp compared to Phoebus.
  
 Everyone might have a difference opinion when it comes to dsp algorithms, but for me I prefer DHTv4. that doesn't mean Dolby Headphone or any other algorithm is inferior to DHT. it just preference thing.  and I'm not sure about the specs of upcoming STX 2. may be it will come up with DHTv4.


----------



## eXistencelies

appsmarsterx said:


> imo, not outdated at all . STX has the superior amp compared to Phoebus.
> 
> Everyone might have a difference opinion when it comes to dsp algorithms, but for me I prefer DHTv4. that doesn't mean Dolby Headphone is inferior to DHT. it just preference thing.  and I'm not sure about the specs of upcoming STX 2. may be it will come up with DHTv4.


 
 I also discovered that when I use DH I can hear myself talk in game (I have my mic hooked up to the card as well) and it's odd. I think under the mic settings I need to uncheck local mic or something. I read the settings online today at work. Will have to check that out at home. I just hope the DH1 setting is less echoey. I came from a razer kraken 7.1 and it is def a big difference in sound. I am prob going to do the bass mod to my Q701's as well.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I think I'm going to have to do some extensive testing with my Omni on a variety of games. I keep hearing a sound that could be described as a pop, but I'd personally describe it as a tuk or ch(u)k sound (not sure how best to describe it). I'm pretty sure it is digital clipping. I don't know if this is something that has developed, or if it's a case of me not having noticed it before, and that because I'm now aware of it I'm listening out for it. Whatever the case, it is driving me nuts.


----------



## Evshrug

existencelies said:


> Not sure what you are saying by this. You mean you had the STX and dropped it for creative and like creative now?



I've never had an STX, but I do have a Mixamp and DSS which use DH mode 2 (you can't adjust it).

Honestly, I would make sure you don't have your computer set to monitor or playback sounds (aka play them "twice"), or not to sound weird but make sure you aren't hearing sounds from your computer speakers the same time as your headphones. I've had my TV playing the same time as my headphones a few times (slightly delayed), and it took me a while to realize two things were playing the audio. Your comment about hearing your own mic audio is what makes me suspect this, like you're hearing the game and you're hearing a second copy of output after adding in the mic to the mix.



martin vegas said:


> I have just tried with a 16gb one but it wouldn't work..only 32gb and up will work..i have a 4gb one and two 8gb ones and a 16gb one..if I see a 32gb one for cheap somewhere I will try again!



In the video, he says the flash drive has to be formatted to FAT32 format type, your other flash sticks might need to be erased and reformatted.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> I've never had an STX, but I do have a Mixamp and DSS which use DH mode 2 (you can't adjust it).
> 
> Honestly, I would make sure you don't have your computer set to monitor or playback sounds (aka play them "twice"), or not to sound weird but make sure you aren't hearing sounds from your computer speakers the same time as your headphones. I've had my TV playing the same time as my headphones a few times (slightly delayed), and it took me a while to realize two things were playing the audio. Your comment about hearing your own mic audio is what makes me suspect this, like you're hearing the game and you're hearing a second copy of output after adding in the mic to the mix.
> In the video, he says the flash drive has to be formatted to FAT32 format type, your other flash sticks might need to be erased and reformatted.


 
 I will try again Evshrug..first I thought t had to be 32gb,,but it's just called flash 32!


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> I will try again Evshrug..first I thought t had to be 32gb,,but it's just called flash 32!




*FAT32*, it's mentioned at 1:05 in this video and 1:40 in the PS4 update video you posted.


----------



## martin vegas

It worked mate.. I am uploading it to youtube now..i will post the video on here when it's good to go!


----------



## grumpy1471

I got my K712 PROs yesterday! Opened them up and put them on my head and I was instantly impressed by the comfort of these cans. I have an EXTREMELY sensitive head and I find it really easy to get headaches if I'm wearing any over ears that have more than a bit of clamping force. 
  
 As for the listening test, I only have my Nexus 5, PS4 controller and gaming PC headphone jacks to use as sources. I will be getting my Astro Mixamp back tomorrow as I had to send them out to (hopefully) get them fixed or replaced. I'll have to wait until I get the Mixamp back to test these out with virtual surround. 
  
 They sound quite amazing compared to any other headphones that I have heard and they seem to indeed be a jack of all trades headphone. Running them from my current not-so-great sources, they seem to be great with all genres of music. I also briefly tested them out on Borderlands 2 (wonderful game by the way) and they seem to work well for gaming from what I've heard. My only issue with them is that the highs seem to be slightly harsh on my ears.
  
 Will an amp help fix my problems with the highs? I have definitely noticed that they need to be amped as I am running them at close to max volume from both my Nexus and my PC so I am wondering if the sound will greatly improve with some amping. I'm thinking of going with the Magni as an amp. Not quite sure if I should go ahead and purchase the Modi as well for music listening. The shipping to Canada will be just over $30 whether I get one or both. I'm thinking that I should just order the stack and get it over with (and also save $30 in shipping).


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I got my K712 PROs yesterday! Opened them up and put them on my head and I was instantly impressed by the comfort of these cans. I have an EXTREMELY sensitive head and I find it really easy to get headaches if I'm wearing any over ears that have more than a bit of clamping force.
> 
> As for the listening test, I only have my Nexus 5, PS4 controller and gaming PC headphone jacks to use as sources. I will be getting my Astro Mixamp back tomorrow as I had to send them out to (hopefully) get them fixed or replaced. I'll have to wait until I get the Mixamp back to test these out with virtual surround.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, as mentioned a zillion times, amping helps these a lot.  If you get a slightly "warmer" amp, it should help tame the highs a bit as well.  The Schiit Vali is generally recommended as a better pairing for the AKG's than the Magni because of this.
  
 Regarding the Modi, I'd say that depends on your sound card.  I have found that the difference between the Omni and Modi is pretty subtle.  Once I spent a lot of time listening for the differences, I think I trained my ears to hear them better.  But it wasn't anything dramatic.  I'd almost suggest skipping the Modi if you have a decent sound card and upgrading to something in a higher price bracket.
  
 BTW, if you do have a decent sound card, you're going to want a DAC with optical input rather than USB.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Yes,* as mentioned a zillion times*, amping helps these a lot.  If you get a slightly "warmer" amp, it should help tame the highs a bit as well.  The Schiit Vali is generally recommended as a better pairing for the AKG's than the Magni because of this.
> 
> Regarding the Modi, I'd say that depends on your sound card.  I have found that the difference between the Omni and Modi is pretty subtle.  Once I spent a lot of time listening for the differences, I think I trained my ears to hear them better.  But it wasn't anything dramatic.  I'd almost suggest skipping the Modi if you have a decent sound card and upgrading to something in a higher price bracket.
> 
> BTW, if you do have a decent sound card, you're going to want a DAC with optical input rather than USB.


 
 I was more worried about the harshness of the highs when I asked and not so much about the general sq and volume. I had definitely known that I had to be prepared to buy an amp when I ordered the K712. I don't mean to be the type of person that repeats a question that has, in fact, been asked a zillion times 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 The audio on my PC is handled by the motherboard. It's a *GA-990FXA-UD3 *in case you want to take a look at it.  It's an okay motherboard and has optical as well as 5.1 capabilities but I don't think it's anything special when it comes to sound quality. That's why I'm not sure as to whether to just go with the Mixamp and an amp or to go with a DAC as well.
  
 As for the Vali vs Magni, I'm hesitant with the Vali because it doesn't work so well with lower ohm headphones (just in case I want to use my M80s or GR07s with it).


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart,
I think he just has motherboard audio. But you bring up a good point, the Omni could be an alternative to a Modi at a less expensive price point, probably has a Canadian distributor so grumpy wouldn't become more grumpy if hit by customs inspection fees, and if he gets curious about DAC upgrades in the future he could still use the Omni for surround processing and pipe the audio out through Optical to another DAC.


Grumpy,
I keep saying that it's clear that these AKG's that "need" amping still sound like superior headphones even if you don't have a powerful/clean discrete amp! Glad you like them. And yes, the treble feels a bit sharp/harsh, but that's a brittleness that becomes cleaner and sweeter when powered enough to control the driver movement with precision and authority. So you'll be able to listen for longer stretches when powered better/more cleanly... They sound very good even in your more entry-level setup, but we say they "need" and amp because you don't hear their full potential till you hear them with a good amp.

I found the Omni to be also better at amping than my motherboard (and a clearer DAC as well), so a step in the right direction (clearly better than the two Recon3D's I've had can output by themselves), though it seems that when these USB powered devices are powered by USB3 ports they can draw on more juice/oomf. A discrete amp will still be a level up, progression is part of the game... LOL AN AUDIO RPG! It's real life bro 

I haven't heard the Vali, but from reviews it does seem like an impressive amp. Read Purrin's review... He thought it had great synergy with the HD800! And while the HD800 is a more refined headphone, it has a relatively similar frequency curve as the K712 (though the latter has a bigger bass hump). The Magni is also a good option on paper, I haven't heard one though... Reading a lot of reviews, I get the impression that it's mostly neutral and honest, letting the headphone determine the tone but some people have had the impression of a slight bit of brightness added. Probably only one way to find out for sure on any of these!

Meanwhile, thanks for adding your impression towards creating a consensus


----------



## Evshrug

grumpy1471 said:


> ...
> The audio on my PC is handled by the motherboard.
> 
> As for the Vali vs Magni, I'm hesitant with the Vali because it doesn't work so well with lower ohm headphones (just in case I want to use my M80s or GR07s with it).



Lol, you beat me to replying. As for your other headphones, kind of a tough/personal choice. An amp may help those improve too and it's nice to have versatility, but then those will probably not scale much compared to what you're already hearing and given the choice the K712 will probably get the most head-time when you're in a destop-amp listening situation.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> Lol, you beat me to replying. As for your other headphones, kind of a tough/personal choice. An amp may help those improve too and it's nice to have versatility, but then those will probably not scale much compared to what you're already hearing and given the choice the K712 will probably get the most head-time when you're in a destop-amp listening situation.




You make a great point there. When I'm using a desktop amp, what reason will I have to use anything other than the best headphones I have? I'm not quite sure how well my Mixamp can work as a DAC but I should probably wait until tomorrow to see how well it works with the K712. As for the omni, I can get one for around $90 CAD which isn't bad at all. I could end up having my Mixamp for console and Omni for PC. 

I'll have to give the Valid vs Magni decision a bit of time so that I can take the time to make the right choice and look up some comparisons. The Vali and Magni could both help tame the highs from what I gathered but the Vali can do a better job at it. Just not sure if I like tube or solid state amps. I guess I'll have to either do a ton of research about the two types or maybe I'll have to try both eventually. I'm just starting my audiophile quest so I do need to level up and gain some experience (loved that RPG comparison btw).


----------



## kman1211

grumpy1471 said:


> You make a great point there. When I'm using a desktop amp, what reason will I have to use anything other than the best headphones I have? I'm not quite sure how well my Mixamp can work as a DAC but I should probably wait until tomorrow to see how well it works with the K712. As for the omni, I can get one for around $90 CAD which isn't bad at all. I could end up having my Mixamp for console and Omni for PC.
> 
> I'll have to give the Valid vs Magni decision a bit of time so that I can take the time to make the right choice and look up some comparisons. The Vali and Magni could both help tame the highs from what I gathered but the Vali can do a better job at it. Just not sure if I like tube or solid state amps. I guess I'll have to either do a ton of research about the two types or maybe I'll have to try both eventually. I'm just starting my audiophile quest so I do need to level up and gain some experience (loved that RPG comparison btw).


 

 I would probably chose the Vali of the two with the K7xx series. I believe the Vali's issues are with lower ohm headphones than the K70x series. I'm not sure if the Vali will have noise issues with the K712 or not. I used to have the Magni but wasn't really the biggest fan of the amp. If you don't mind spending a bit more you can look into the EF2A, if you want the ability to roll tubes and want an amp with basically no noise floor even on IEMs. It's another lower price amp known to have good synergy with the HD 800, K712, etc.


----------



## kman1211

I've been spending a lot of time with the K712 pads on the K612, I'm really liking what I am hearing. The K612 retains that clear and forward midrange that the K712 just doesn't have while taking a slight edge off the treble and increasing the bass to where it's a bit more than the K712 but some reason the bass seems a bit cleaner and clearer than the K712. It's good for bass-heavy genres, but there is a bit too much bass for some more acoustic genres as it impacts the subtle textures of bass. Maybe my amp is simply a better match for the K612 than the K712.
  
 I have noticed the treble on the K712 to be more prominent and I feel it takes away from the midrange. I'll give the headphones a few more weeks to decide on which I like more. I may end up favoring the K612 as a good midrange is what is most important to me. I am keeping the K712 no matter what as I got a really good deal on it but it's not really ending up as a replacement or even an upgrade in terms of refinement of the K612 just a different flavor of sound on similarly performing headphones. It's basically ending up as a complimentary headphone. The K712 is starting to end up as my replacement for my DT 990 Pro I sold.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> You make a great point there. When I'm using a desktop amp, what reason will I have to use anything other than the best headphones I have? I'm not quite sure how well my Mixamp can work as a DAC but I should probably wait until tomorrow to see how well it works with the K712. As for the omni, I can get one for around $90 CAD which isn't bad at all. I could end up having my Mixamp for console and Omni for PC.
> 
> I'll have to give the Valid vs Magni decision a bit of time so that I can take the time to make the right choice and look up some comparisons. The Vali and Magni could both help tame the highs from what I gathered but the Vali can do a better job at it. Just not sure if I like tube or solid state amps. I guess I'll have to either do a ton of research about the two types or maybe I'll have to try both eventually. I'm just starting my audiophile quest so I do need to level up and gain some experience (loved that RPG comparison btw).


 

 Most folks in the Q701 thread prefer the Vali to the Magni.  I know it's a different can, but they're very similar so I suspect that preference would transfer over.  Sounds like at least a couple folks on here agree.  One of the things I like about the Vali on paper is that it's not setup to be able to "tube roll".  It's just plug n play.  Tube sound with none of the temptation to blow all your money on tubes.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 BTW, sorry if I came across as...grumpy (see what I did there?), I guess it wasn't made clear that good amping in general will make the harsh treble go away on those cans.  It's one of the reasons we all say you need an amp.  (Ev put it better than I could anyways.)  In fact, I felt a noticeable upgrade just going from onboard sound to the Recon.  Getting a desktop amp, especially a warmer tube amp, should help even more. 
  
 Personally, I wouldn't overthink the decision between the Magni and Vali.  They're both relatively cheap amps with good resale potential.  Just grab one and enjoy.  There's also almost always ones on the classifieds here because many people use them as stepping stones when getting into the hobby.


----------



## benbenkr

An Aune T1 is always a good alternative to the Vali btw, just saying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

napalmhardcore said:


> Did they ever fix the issue whereby the audio would come out through both HDMI and optical? I don't know why they changed that from how it was on PS3.




Pretty sure that is a Multi-audio out option. PS3 had it, and PS4 'should' have it. I haven't checked.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Pretty sure that is a Multi-audio out option. PS3 had it, and PS4 'should' have it. I haven't checked.


 
 Last time I booted up my PS4 it wasn't in the options (I looked everywhere). I found a Playstation thread and others were complaining. It isn't a big deal as I can just mute my receiver. The PS3 had it perfect but for some reason they changed it on PS4. If it ain't broke...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. Well, ps4 is lacking many things atm, unfortunately.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Ah ok. Well, ps4 is *lacking many things atm*, unfortunately.


 
 Games lol.
  
 Mind you I've got more than enough to play. Steam sales have given me a monumental backlog of stuff to play.


----------



## benbenkr

The PS4 has multi-out, it's just enabled automatically and you can't disable it.
  
 Turn on your TV speakers and you'll hear audio, as it would be connected with the HDMI cable.


----------



## martin vegas

Heres the clip I uploaded using FAT32 and a usb stick from my ps4!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

benbenkr said:


> The PS4 has multi-out, it's just enabled automatically and you can't disable it.
> 
> Turn on your TV speakers and you'll hear audio, as it would be connected with the HDMI cable.


 
 It was the inability to disable it that was my problem. I preferred how it was on PS3. The first time I noticed it was at about 2 in the morning. I took off my headphones and realised the sound was coming out my speakers too, which kind of defeated the point of me wearing headphones. Luckily my speakers weren't turned up very loud or I'd have woken everyone up.


----------



## benbenkr

napalmhardcore said:


> It was the inability to disable it that was my problem. I preferred how it was on PS3. The first time I noticed it was at about 2 in the morning. I took off my headphones and realised the sound was coming out my speakers too, which kind of defeated the point of me wearing headphones. Luckily my speakers weren't turned up very loud or I'd have woken everyone up.


 
  
 Yeah I know. No idea why Sony never decided to have an option to disable it.
  
 Well you can always just mute your TV speakers at the same time, it's a minor inconvenience but not end of the world.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

benbenkr said:


> Yeah I know. No idea why Sony never decided to have an option to disable it.
> 
> Well you can always just mute your TV speakers at the same time, it's a minor inconvenience but not end of the world.


 
 Yeah, that's what I've been doing. Like you said, it's not a big deal, just an odd decision on Sony's part.


----------



## grumpy1471

mad lust envy said:


> Ah ok. Well, ps4 is lacking many things atm, unfortunately.




Luckily, an optical port on the console isn't one of them! Not to hate on the Xbox One, but it's an inconvenience to either have to get 5.1 through the TV or through an adapter.

Edit: Turns out posting when I'm half awake isn't so smart. I assumed that the XB1 didn't have an optical port because of how the newest 360 doesn't. Whoops!


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Luckily, an optical port on the console isn't one of them! Not to hate on the Xbox One, but it's an inconvenience to either have to get 5.1 through the TV or through an adapter.


 

 XBone has optical port on the console.  The adaptor, which I think is a deplorable cash grab and which I suspect they could be sued for if someone wanted to put together a class action suit, is only for using your own headset for chat.  If you just want 5.1 with no chat, the Xbox works perfectly fine and needs no additional adaptor.  If you want to chat with 5.1 too, you need the adaptor and a bunch of complicated cables. 
  
 And to the person who mentioned the Aune T1 as an alternative to the Vali, everything I've read says the T1 is a tube DAC, not a tube amp.  I think I even read that the tube isn't used if you're using the onboard amp; you have to use it as a DAC/preamp to get the tube in the signal path.  It's one of the reasons I crossed it off my list.  I could be mistaken though, I've never personally heard one...


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> *XBone has optical port on the console.*  The adaptor, which I think is a deplorable cash grab and which I suspect they could be sued for if someone wanted to put together a class action suit, is only for using your own headset for chat.  If you just want 5.1 with no chat, the Xbox works perfectly fine and needs no additional adaptor.  If you want to chat with 5.1 too, you need the adaptor and a bunch of complicated cables.
> 
> And to the person who mentioned the Aune T1 as an alternative to the Vali, everything I've read says the T1 is a tube DAC, not a tube amp.  I think I even read that the tube isn't used if you're using the onboard amp; you have to use it as a DAC/preamp to get the tube in the signal path.  It's one of the reasons I crossed it off my list.  I could be mistaken though, I've never personally heard one...




Thanks for pointing that out. I'm surprised that I didn't bother to look it up before I posted that! My bias towards the PS4 is starting to show


----------



## grumpy1471

napalmhardcore said:


> Games lol.
> 
> Mind you I've got more than enough to play. Steam sales have given me a monumental backlog of stuff to play.




I agree completely with this. My PS4 has been gathering a bit of dust because of the lack of games. This, of course, is to be expected at the launch of a console. I too have a HUGE backlog of games. Probably around 100 untouched or uncompleted games on steam. Right now I'm just playing a ton of Borderlands 2 instead of working through my other games.


----------



## eXistencelies

So i wanted to mention that I recently purchased Q701 and STX sound card. Gamed in Dolby my first time and disliked it. Tried stereo and seemed a bit better. Ended up doing some more tweaks on Dolby and used DH1 setting, 6 channel and 44K. Well lets just say it def took some getting use to and now I love it. Switching back to HI-FI(Stereo) mode I did not like. The game I play right now is CS:GO and it only allows up to 5.1 audio. So that is why I have it set to the 6 channels. So for those that never played on Dolby give it some time. I came from razer 7.1 krakens and I thought those were good at first. Not anymore. Everything seemed so muddy with them. 
  
 Only one thing is I sometimes get popping in my speakers. Not sure what causes this.


----------



## grumpy1471

existencelies said:


> So i wanted to mention that I recently purchased Q701 and STX sound card. Gamed in Dolby my first time and disliked it. Tried stereo and seemed a bit better. Ended up doing some more tweaks on Dolby and used DH1 setting, 6 channel and 44K. Well lets just say it def took some getting use to and now I love it. Switching back to HI-FI(Stereo) mode I did not like. The game I play right now is CS:GO and it only allows up to 5.1 audio. So that is why I have it set to the 6 channels. So for those that never played on Dolby give it some time. I came from razer 7.1 krakens and I thought those were good at first. Not anymore. Everything seemed so muddy with them.
> 
> Only one thing is I sometimes get popping in my speakers. Not sure what causes this.




The virtual surround does take a while to get used to. I went through the same thing when I first got my A40 system. Now, I hate playing games in stereo because of how you can only really tell if sounds are coming from the right or the left. Stereo makes competitive gaming really difficult and makes other games a ton less immersive.


----------



## eXistencelies

grumpy1471 said:


> The virtual surround does take a while to get used to. I went through the same thing when I first got my A40 system. Now, I hate playing games in stereo because of how you can only really tell if sounds are coming from the right or the left. Stereo makes competitive gaming really difficult and makes other games a ton less immersive.


 
 I don't enable the virtual surround unless that is what Dolby is? I just check the Dolby Headphone box and that is it and put it on the DH1 setting. Less of that sound stage echo. There is an option to enable the 7.1 virtual surround.


----------



## grumpy1471

existencelies said:


> I don't enable the virtual surround unless that is what Dolby is? I just check the Dolby Headphone box and that is it and put it on the DH1 setting. Less of that sound stage echo. There is an option to enable the 7.1 virtual surround.




DH is indeed virtual surround. 6 channel would be 5.1 if I'm not mistaken. Try toggling on and off DH1 and seeing how accurately you can hear the location of a sound in a game. To test virtual surround, I go on CoD: Ghosts on the map Prison Break in a private match and go to one edge of the map where there is a waterfall off in the distance. When DH is on on my Mixamp, I can accurately hear the waterfall behind and in front of me as well as to the left and right of me. In stereo mode, I can only really hear when it's to the left or right of me.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

grumpy1471 said:


> I agree completely with this. My PS4 has been gathering a bit of dust because of the lack of games. This, of course, is to be expected at the launch of a console. I too have a HUGE backlog of games. Probably around 100 untouched or uncompleted games on steam. Right now I'm just playing a ton of Borderlands 2 instead of working through my other games.


 
 I have a ridiculous amount of untouched games too. Not trying to one-up you here, but I think I have over 200 waiting to be played lol. I have the gaming equivalent of my eyes being bigger than my stomach.
  


existencelies said:


> Only one thing is I sometimes get popping in my speakers. Not sure what causes this.


 
 I'm having problems with popping, though it's happening through my headphones and (as far as I can tell) not through my speakers. However I'm using an Omni.
  
 I've already had to go through pretty much every trouble shooting step already for a problem I thought I had a while back (was confused about Dolby Digital Live and when it should be enabled), so I don't know what more I can do. The only things I can think of is either my USB controller is faulty, the Omni is defective or the Omni just doesn't get along with my system (for whatever temperamental, I'm a PC and do what I feel like, switch me off and back on again reason).


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I agree completely with this. My PS4 has been gathering a bit of dust because of the lack of games. This, of course, is to be expected at the launch of a console. I too have a HUGE backlog of games. Probably around 100 untouched or uncompleted games on steam. Right now I'm just playing a ton of Borderlands 2 instead of working through my other games.


 
  
 (Speaking of bias) my Xbox One has absolutely not been gathering dust.  From day 1, I was playing Forza 5, then Peggle, PvZ, Titanfall, etc.  I still can't figure out why so many people bought PS4's so fast...


----------



## grumpy1471

napalmhardcore said:


> I have a ridiculous amount of untouched games too. Not trying to one-up you here, but I think I have over 200 waiting to be played lol. I have the gaming equivalent of my eyes being bigger than my stomach.


 
 That's pretty crazy. I'm avoiding buying any games until I see one that I really need or want because of my backlog. Infamous: Second Son looks pretty good but I'm going to wait until I get my money's worth out of my Steam library to get it.
  
  


stillhart said:


> (Speaking of bias) my Xbox One has absolutely not been gathering dust.  From day 1, I was playing Forza 5, then Peggle, PvZ, Titanfall, etc.  I still can't figure out why so many people bought PS4's so fast...


 
 I bought a PS4 because of the better hardware specs and because of how my friends were biased towards the PS4. I had been planning out my gaming PC when I bought the PS4 so maybe my new knowledge of PC parts and such made me choose the PS4 due to its higher performance. Microsoft has the advantage when it comes to the selection of games because of its exclusives, however, I have been noticing that devs are preferring the PS4 when it comes to making games. Not quite sure how that will effect the volume of games within the next year or so.
  
 For Titanfall, I can play on my gaming PC so I'm not really missing out. As for Forza, I find it slightly boring for my tastes. Believe me, I think Forza games are great, however, I prefer arcade racing games such as NFS and I have been really enjoying Grid 2 lately. When the best exclusive for the Xbox, Halo, comes out for the Xbox One, I will definitely have to break down and buy one.
  
 I want to stay as neutral as possible when it comes to consoles. I look at what my friends are getting, see if any exclusives will make me want to buy one console or another, I will factor that into my decision. I also care about specs quite a bit. I am not the type of person who sticks with one brand of console just because of the brand. I chose the PS4 because it seemed to be the winner of this generation of consoles (of course, in my opinion). I chose the Xbox 360 last gen because I thought the same for it as I do now with the PS4. 
  
 I will for sure be buying an Xbox One eventually. Maybe when they make a smaller version of the console, I will buy that (who the heck decided to make the XB1 as big as it is?). I see benefits in both consoles and, for now, the PS4 seems to be the winner in my mind.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> (Speaking of bias) my Xbox One has absolutely not been gathering dust.  From day 1, I was playing Forza 5, then Peggle, PvZ, Titanfall, etc.  I still can't figure out why so many people bought PS4's so fast...




All that in glorious full HD!
Oh, wait... Oops


----------



## martin vegas

grumpy1471 said:


> That's pretty crazy. I'm avoiding buying any games until I see one that I really need or want because of my backlog. Infamous: Second Son looks pretty good but I'm going to wait until I get my money's worth out of my Steam library to get it.
> 
> 
> I bought a PS4 because of the better hardware specs and because of how my friends were biased towards the PS4. I had been planning out my gaming PC when I bought the PS4 so maybe my new knowledge of PC parts and such made me choose the PS4 due to its higher performance. Microsoft has the advantage when it comes to the selection of games because of its exclusives, however, I have been noticing that devs are preferring the PS4 when it comes to making games. Not quite sure how that will effect the volume of games within the next year or so.
> ...


 

 I think halo's had it's day..the last halo was garbage.. I wouldn't buy a console for that anymore..bf4 is a lot better than halo and battlefields starting to get old now..watchdogs couldn't be coming out sooner!


----------



## conquerator2

I find Sony exclusives superior to Microsofts.
I owned the 360 for a year before getting the PS3 and never really regretted it.
YMMV


----------



## grumpy1471

conquerator2 said:


> All that in glorious full HD!
> Oh, wait... Oops


 
 Careful... don't want to start a Head-Fi console war 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 In all honesty, the fact that the PS4 can run at a higher resolution than the Xbox One is important to me. I don't have the best eyesight and 720p (back in last gen with the xbox 360) can be difficult for me to see and can cause me some headaches. Some people care more about gameplay than resolution. I see nothing wrong with that.


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> I find Sony exclusives superior to Microsofts.
> I owned the 360 for a year before getting the PS3 and never really regretted it.
> YMMV


 

 Dead rising 3 is the one game I want to come to ps4..killer instinct would be nice aswell..not bothered about titanfall because it's on pc!


----------



## conquerator2

grumpy1471 said:


> Careful... don't want to start a Head-Fi console war
> 
> In all honesty, the fact that the PS4 can run at a higher resolution than the Xbox One is important to me. I don't have the best eyesight and 720p (back in last gen with the xbox 360) can be difficult for me to see and can cause me some headaches. Some people care more about gameplay than resolution. I see nothing wrong with that.




No, of course not.
I find the shimmer on lower resolution textures and lack of decent AA one of the most apparent weaknesses of last Gen consoles.
It's something I'd like to avoid for as long as possible... PS4 seems to be the better choice. More powerful.
Plus the exclusives are even more important to me perhaps.


----------



## Stillhart

The hardware may be better, the exclusives may be better, but there are NO games for the PS4 right now other than Infamous (which I didn't like on the PS3) and cross-platform games that are all available on PC.
  
 I'm sorry, I'm not an MS fanboi or a Sony hater.  I just can't understand why you'd spend $400 on somthing that's admittedly gathering dust.  I have no doubt I'll buy a PS4 someday, possibly as soon as this summer, but as of right now, there's no good reason to do so.
  
 I buy consoles to play fun games that I can't play on my PC.  The Xbox has fun games.  That's good enough for me.  /rant
  
 PS - I'll never buy a game on the PC that requires Origin installed.  That means Titanfall is effectively not available on PC for me.  Also ME3, DA3, SimCity, BF3+4, etc.  Also, people cheat in Titanfall on PC.  They don't on Xbox.


----------



## grumpy1471

martin vegas said:


> I think halo's had it's day..the last halo was garbage.. I wouldn't buy a console for that anymore..bf4 is a lot better than halo and battlefields starting to get old now..watchdogs couldn't be coming out sooner!


 
 I'm more so loyal to Halo because of the great memories. I agree that Halo has gone downhill. I've seen a decline in game quality since Halo 3. Back when I got my Xbox 360 and Halo 3, that was all I played. I must have put in days worth of play time in the campaign alone. I had a lot of fun playing through the campaign with friends and working to beat it on legendary difficulty. 
  
 Watchdogs looks interesting. Also, Destiny looks like it has great potential. I'll have to see more gameplay of both of them to make a decision as to whether I will buy them. Destiny seems similar to Borderlands though and I LOVE Borderlands. 
  
 I've never really played Battlefield much. Battlefield 4 is very, very flawed and I don't really want to play it. Back in Battlefield: Bad Co. 2, I had tons of fun. Battlefield 3 and 4 didn't seem to bring the fun factor for me. I personally prefer arcade games when it comes to both shooters and racing games. IMO CoD>BF and NFS>Forza. Many people disagree though.


----------



## grumpy1471

martin vegas said:


> Dead rising 3 is the one game I want to come to ps4..killer instinct would be nice aswell..not bothered about titanfall because it's on pc!


 
 I never really got into Dead Rising. I'm surprised I haven't because it looks like a really fun and chaotic game. I played DR2 and never really wanted to keep playing.
  
  


stillhart said:


> The hardware may be better, the exclusives may be better, but there are NO games for the PS4 right now other than Infamous (which I didn't like on the PS3) and cross-platform games that are all available on PC.
> 
> *I'm sorry, I'm not an MS fanboi or a Sony hater.*  I just can't understand why you'd spend $400 on somthing that's admittedly gathering dust.  I have no doubt I'll buy a PS4 someday, possibly as soon as this summer, but as of right now, there's no good reason to do so.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm the same way. Not a fanboy of Sony or Microsoft. The PS4 seems to be gathering dust more so because I'm working on my backlog of PC games but I can admit that more games would be nice.
  
 I really wish I could choose a console for this reason but it doesn't seem to be a deciding factor for me as it used to. Like I said earlier, I have nothing wrong with people choosing a console for its fun factor and I am jealous of those who could care less about how wonderful games look. I'm always obsessing over how well a game runs or looks and sometimes forget to just relax and have fun.
  
 I haven't encountered any cheaters on PC yet. Granted, I haven't played Titanfall a ton yet and should probably play it more often as I do enjoy it quite a lot.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I'm the same way. Not a fanboy of Sony or Microsoft. The PS4 seems to be gathering dust more so because I'm working on my backlog of PC games but I can admit that more games would be nice.
> 
> I really wish I could choose a console for this reason but it doesn't seem to be a deciding factor for me as it used to. Like I said earlier, I have nothing wrong with people choosing a console for its fun factor and *I am jealous of those who could care less about how wonderful games look*. I'm always obsessing over how well a game runs or looks and sometimes forget to just relax and have fun.
> 
> I haven't encountered any cheaters on PC yet. Granted, I haven't played Titanfall a ton yet and should probably play it more often as I do enjoy it quite a lot.


 
  
 Keep in mind, I'm more than twice as old as you.  My first gaming experiences included games like Zork and Infogrames games and BBS door games, which literally had NO graphics; they were all text.  While good graphics add a lot to a game, for sure, I have the perspective to realize that it's not even close to required.  I forget sometimes the gulf that separates those of us that grew up on Atari and C64 and Apple IIe and those that grew up on N64 and Dreamcast.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Keep in mind, I'm more than twice as old as you.  My first gaming experiences included games like Zork and Infogrames games and BBS door games, which literally had NO graphics; they were all text.  While good graphics add a lot to a game, for sure, I have the perspective to realize that it's not even close to required.  I forget sometimes the gulf that separates those of us that grew up on Atari and C64 and Apple IIe and those that grew up on N64 and Dreamcast.




Infogrames games are great. They used to make great platformers for PS1 back in the day... Before they went outta business.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I'm not really loyal to a brand for the sake of it, though I have a long history with Sony.
  
 In the case of PS1, it had the games I was interested in. I knew nothing about tech specs and didn't care.
  
 PS2 it was a combination of the games and features (in particular the ability to play DVD's), plus I wasn't following gaming news at the time and didn't want to wait for XBOX to come out (though I got a second hand XBOX toward the end of its life cycle).
  
 I co-owned a 360 with my brother and then bought a PS3. When I moved out I took the PS3 for two main reasons. 1) I owned a force feedback wheel and PS3 supported it but the 360 didn't. 2) My best friend had a PS3 so I wanted to be able to play online with him. In all honesty, I wish I'd scraped together the money to buy both. Both systems have had some great exclusives and as a racing fan, not getting to play Forza 3 and 4 has hurt *sniff* (especially as I felt a bit let down by GT5 and haven't bothered with GT6). On the other hand, Naughty Dog's games have been some of the best I've ever played.
  
 I've gone for the PS4 this generation primarily based on specs. Part of the reason I've gone Sony this gen is because in the lead up to this gen, Microsoft's attitude has got on my nerves.
  
 Edit: I started out on Atari


----------



## AvroArrow

grumpy1471 said:


> I'll have to give the Valid vs Magni decision a bit of time so that I can take the time to make the right choice and look up some comparisons. The Vali and Magni could both help tame the highs from what I gathered but the Vali can do a better job at it. Just not sure if I like tube or solid state amps. I guess I'll have to either do a ton of research about the two types or maybe I'll have to try both eventually. I'm just starting my audiophile quest so I do need to level up and gain some experience (loved that RPG comparison btw).


 
  
 I've tried my K702 Annies with my friend's Vali and it sounds pretty good.  It did not sound as "tube-y" as I was expecting.  In fact, it did not sound that different from my Asgard 2.  In the Vali thread there was mention that it sounds similar to the Asgard 2 so for me it's kind of redundant to get a Vali.  The Vali will bump up the bass a little bit and it will take the sharp edge off the treble, but the effect is very slight, not a major night and day difference.  I don't really find the Annies to have very sharp treble in the first place and I'm somewhat sensitive to that.  The Vali does make a very noticeable difference to my friend's 32 ohm Beyer DT880 Premiums.  Those headphones have some pretty sharp treble that the Vali helped tame.  That being said, I still wouldn't get the DT880s even with the Vali, still too much of a V-shaped response curve for me.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> All that in glorious full HD!
> Oh, wait... Oops



What confuses me is that the original Xbox had a few HD titles. Not many, but why is this still an issue?



stillhart said:


> I forget sometimes the gulf that separates those of us that grew up on Atari and C64 and Apple IIe and those that grew up on N64 and Dreamcast.



But what about those of us who grew up on Genesis and the golden age of lucasarts games?
If Xbox had exclusives today like the original Knights of the Old Republic, the Bungie-Made and inspired games (reach was pretty good, but wasn't a story that needed to be told and was mostly Microsoft milking the contract, ODST was a great DLC that got blown out of proportion by Microsoft's needs), Beyond Good and Evil, psychonaughts, and other great new IP's, I'd be all over that. Neither console has that yet, though I am looking forward to Destiny and Watch Dogs, and most of the multi-plays look better on PS4 or have timed exclusive content. It's a close race of neither being amazing yet.

I will get the definitive edition of Last of us, as someone who only just got a Playstation for the first time I missed out on some of the awesome last-gen stuff.



napalmhardcore said:


> Part of the reason I've gone Sony this gen is because in the lead up to this gen, Microsoft's attitude has got on my nerves.
> 
> Edit: I started out on Atari




This is why I really went for PS4. I mean, part of it was Destiny will have PS4 special treatment and I think that the PS4 controller design could make for really cool future gameplay experiences, but overwhelmingly I wanted to vote Sony with my money because Microsoft was acting like EA (which was acting like 1900's Microsoft...).


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> What confuses me is that the original Xbox had a few HD titles. Not many, but why is this still an issue?
> But what about those of us who grew up on Genesis and the golden age of lucasarts games?
> If Xbox had exclusives today like the original Knights of the Old Republic, the Bungie-Made and inspired games (reach was pretty good, but wasn't a story that needed to be told and was mostly Microsoft milking the contract, ODST was a great DLC that got blown out of proportion by Microsoft's needs), Beyond Good and Evil, psychonaughts, and other great new IP's, I'd be all over that. Neither console has that yet, though I am looking forward to Destiny and Watch Dogs, and most of the multi-plays look better on PS4 or have timed exclusive content. It's a close race of neither being amazing yet.
> 
> ...


 
 Oh man you're in for a treat! That is if you value story telling as much as gameplay :] I mean I have TLoU for PS3 and the PS4 version [along with Infamous:SS] are reasons valid enough to justify buying a PS4 in the summer... That's how much I value it [but I of course love Infamous as well].
 Well, I am obviously looking forward to what else Sony got in store for the future, like The Order 1886 or multi-plats like Arkham Knight [I totally loved Asylum & City] or even Watch_Dogs, I guess...


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> *But what about those of us who grew up on Genesis and the golden age of lucasarts games?*
> If Xbox had exclusives today like the original Knights of the Old Republic, the Bungie-Made and inspired games (reach was pretty good, but wasn't a story that needed to be told and was mostly Microsoft milking the contract, ODST was a great DLC that got blown out of proportion by Microsoft's needs), Beyond Good and Evil, psychonaughts, and other great new IP's, I'd be all over that. Neither console has that yet, though I am looking forward to Destiny and Watch Dogs, and most of the multi-plays look better on PS4 or have timed exclusive content. It's a close race of neither being amazing yet.
> 
> I will get the definitive edition of Last of us, as someone who only just got a Playstation for the first time I missed out on some of the awesome last-gen stuff.
> ...


 
  
 Shades of grey.  I was just speaking as to why I prefer a good game with sub-optimal graphics to a sub-optimal game with good graphics...  why it doesn't compute for someone like me that you'd buy a PS4 for the better graphics when it has no games.
  
 As I said, I'll likely get one at some point.  Not just for the games either... if most of my friends are on PS4 (for no good reason), I might have to get one just to play with them.  Thanks a lot, guys!  >.<


----------



## Murder Mike

2 games (one of which is a polished up copy) is a good enough reason to drop $400 on a PS4? I suppose if you have the money, have at it. I'll be waiting until at least the first price drop/hardware revision and it having at least 10 games that I want to play. That being said, I won't ever touch the Xbone.


----------



## Kamakahah

I'm the same. I know there'll be a hardware revision and price drop. I can wait for more releases and a smoother overall performance. 

The only reason I would have considered a purchase at release would have been for backwards compatibility. Looks like those days are long gone in the console realm.


----------



## Stillhart

kamakahah said:


> I'm the same. I know there'll be a hardware revision and price drop. I can wait for more releases and a smoother overall performance.
> 
> The only reason I would have considered a purchase at release would have been for backwards compatibility. Looks like those days are long gone in the console realm.


 
  
 I'm hoping they announce a hardware revision and/or price drop at E3 so I can get one before the Destiny beta...


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> 2 games (one of which is a polished up copy) is a good enough reason to drop $400 on a PS4? I suppose if you have the money, have at it. I'll be waiting until at least the first price drop/hardware revision and it having at least 10 games that I want to play. That being said, I won't ever touch the Xbone.


 
 Much will depend on just how much of a polished copy it turns out to be...
 Plus the first iteration seems to be decent size and all... But I might stick to your strategy, depending on funds...
 And as you read my comment, I mentioned more games than those two... but aight


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> I'm hoping they announce a hardware revision and/or price drop at E3 so I can get one before the Destiny beta...


 
  
 It took over a year for the PS3/360 to get significant price drops so I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> It took over a year for the PS3/360 to get significant price drops so I wouldn't count on it.


 
  
 Xbone has already had a price drop as well as two game bundles.  $450 for the console+Titanfall or Forza makes it cheaper than the PS4.  I expect Sony to fire back around E3...


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> Xbone has already had a price drop as well as two game bundles.  $450 for the console+Titanfall or Forza makes it cheaper than the PS4.  I expect Sony to fire back around E3...


 
 Those were limited deals and promotional bundles, not official price drops IIRC.


----------



## Evshrug

Still, it's a good sign that they've already been working on updating the PS4 system.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> Those were limited deals and promotional bundles, not official price drops IIRC.


 
  
 Titanfall bundle is still $499.  The $450 promotion, while limited, was around for quite some time and still shows up now and again.
  
 I guess my point is that it effectively doesn't matter if it's "official" or not.  The Xbox price has changed since launch so it's reasonable to expect that we'll see some PS4 love at some point.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Titanfall bundle is still $499.  The $450 promotion, while limited, was around for quite some time and still shows up now and again.
> 
> I guess my point is that it effectively doesn't matter if it's "official" or not.  The Xbox price has changed since launch so it's reasonable to expect that we'll see some PS4 love at some point.


 
 I think there's lots of PS4 love, no?


----------



## Evshrug

Meh, they should both just inspire each other (and Nintendo!) to be better. It's funny how polarizing it can be, more like a presidential election rather than headphones/amps where we can say "I like many of these" and/or "these are my favourites," not like consoles where there's like a concern that one of them will be a "wrong" choice... I don't think one is wrong, just that one may personally suit best while there are attractive things about all the consoles.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Meh, they should both just inspire each other (and Nintendo!) to be better. It's funny how polarizing it can be, more like a presidential election rather than headphones/amps where we can say "I like many of these" and/or "these are my favourites," not like consoles where there's like a concern that one of them will be a "wrong" choice... I don't think one is wrong, just that one may personally suit best while there are attractive things about all the consoles.


 
  
 Well I think one of the reasons it's so polarizing is that cross-platform play isn't a thing.  Even if I go buy a PS4 tomorrow (Cowboom has some lightly used ones for $300!), I won't be able to play CoD with you because I own it on Xbox One and I simply won't be purchasing a second copy of the same ******* game.
  
 With headphones, I can listen to the same song with the same DAC and Amp on two different cans.  With a console, I have to buy two consoles, two copies of the game, two online subscriptions, etc.  It's just not realistic that people would do that, so people have to pick just one and then try to convince everyone they know to get on that one so they don't end up in a position where they can only play with half of their friends at a time.  Lame.


----------



## KamikazeIce

I'm posting this here because this is a strange fix for my issues. This may even work on other devices, so give it a shot.

  

  
 I made a post HERE about a problem I've been having using optical out with my Sound Blaster Omni.
 Yesterday, I made an interesting discovery during my testing (three posts later).

  
 Breif recap:
 Windows set at 5.1
 Omni Control Panel is set to "headphones" for analog, optical set to copy the analog device in windows and NOT using Dolby Digital Live output encoding (optical is sending PCM 2.0)
 With SBX processing enabled, I heard very bad results. I describe it as someone playing with a L/R fade slider, but it was applied to all audio PROCESSED--discrete channels played normally but not SBX HRTF effects.
 Switching between "5.1 Surround" and "Headphone" in the Omni Control Panel had no effect with optical. Analog output was properly changing.
 Sticking ANYTHING in the headphone out port, while using optical output, fixes this issue by forcing the device to process in a "headphone" mode that works. This does not need to connect to anything, I just stuck an extra 3.5mm adapter in it.

  
 The difference is like day and night. I cannot stress enough how much of an improvement sticking something in the headphone port makes.

  
 While I've had to do a similar trick before to mute my TV without muting SPDIF passthrough, I never even think about this because it's just so illogical so it shouldn't work. But it does.

  

  
 I sugest everyone try this, or something similar, on your devices and see if it improves your results.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a PS4 and so far have only bought KZ, COD, and Tomb Raider. Oh, and a few psn games like Strider. To be honest, I could've played almost all of these on PC and PS3 (whichgets the most use).

Really no reason to jump to PS4 just yet, but it's nice to have, since those games look best on it. PC is better, but I dont like playing online on PC has I prefer using a controller.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

On the face of it people could accuse me of being a Sony fanboy given my history, I am not though. My best friend is a Sony fanboy and I constantly have to point out when XBOX has an advantage over Playstation.
  
 PS2 vs XBOX: The XBOX came out of the gates swinging with Halo, Rallisport Challenge, Forza and other *console* exclusives, as well as superior ports of many games due to its greater power. The PS2 however had a well established stable of exclusives, a good existing relationship with developers and didn't insist you buy a remote for DVD playback (seriously MS?). I also wasn't keen on the original XBOX controller due to the black and white buttons. I much preferred the four shoulder button configuration. Also on the subject of controllers, the PS2 supported force feedback wheels (big plus for racing game fans).
  
 PS3 vs X360: MS got off to a great start with an improved controller and big titles like COD 2, PGR 3, TDU, Gears of War and Dead Rising. RROD.... Oh dear! PS3 didn't have the smoothest start. While they didn't have any major hardware failures, the launch price was hard to swallow (literally! You try swallowing a huge wad of cash like that). It had noticeably inferior ports of some big games like Fear, The Orange Box, BFBC, you name it the 360 probably had the better version. And then from the heavens, accompanied by angelic chorus came... Uncharted (you may have guessed, I'm a Naughty Dog fan). GTA IV was pretty much identical on both systems which was important for the PS3 and as time went by the majority of multi-platform games became so closely matched for performance and graphics that differences were negligible. One of PS3's biggest strengths has been its exclusive titles. Games that have truly leveraged the PS3's hardware have been *arguably* more impressive than the 360's best. For a while now, I believe they've both been at fighting strength and the only real decider is what games you prefer.
  
 PS4 vs XB1: PS4 has had the technically superior multi-platform titles thus far but the XB1 had a better launch line-up and has been quicker to market with its first heavy hitter, Titanfall. Where it goes from here???
  
 An overall difference has been Sony's willingness to support third party hardware. Microsoft always seems to find a way of going the "you want this? Then you'll have to buy the official Microsoft this" route. I've always disliked this attitude and it has been a legitimate issue for me, especially as a FFB wheel user.
  
 Edit: I agree with Mad. At the moment there is no screaming rush to buy a PS4. I don't regret buying it, but some more games would be nice.
  
 Edit 2: I almost completely forgot to mention about online. It has been well established that for online play, XBOX has been the stronger platform. However in Sony's favour was, no entry fee, less trash talking (from the majority of accounts I've heard about) and Playstation Plus.


----------



## Change is Good

You guys do know there is a dedicated thread to debate this on, right?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> You guys do know there is a dedicated thread to debate this on, right?


 

 Hey, I think Evs should make a movie about the differences between the Mixamp, Recon and DSS.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Hey, I think Evs should make a movie about the differences between the Mixamp, Recon and DSS.


 
  
 I would so love to see Ev in an action movie! Using Recon to fight off Mixamp and his DSS soldiers!!!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I would so love to see Ev in an action movie! Using Recon to fight off Mixamp and his DSS soldiers!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 Oh I was picturing something more like this...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Oh I was picturing something more like this...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


 
  
 Hahaha! Nice! Coming this summer to a theater near you!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



​


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Hahaha! Nice! Coming this summer to a theater near you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was going to ask where I was, but it now seems so obvious. I'm a ninja!


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Hey, I think Evs should make a movie about the differences between the Mixamp, Recon and DSS.



Funny you mention, I was also just thinking Evs should do the same. I shall watch episodes of "GadgetMan" on YouTube for inspiration.




change is good said:


> I would so love to see Ev in an action movie! Using Recon to fight off Mixamp and his DSS soldiers!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Oh dear...
I mean, I like tubes, but I think this might be going about it too —



change is good said:


> Hahaha! Nice! Coming this summer to a theater near you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




OH DEAR.
This is why I can't show Head-Fi to my girlfriend, the Renaissance Festival starts in a few weeks and some variation of this could actually come to life.
Chico looking devilishly handsome as always.


----------



## grumpy1471

Stillhart,
 How are you liking the Omni? Does the Omni>Optical Modi>M-Stage work well for music? I'm thinking of purchasing an Omni and Optimodi as well as the Vali for the ultimate PC virtual surround setup. You have it going from USB to Omni to Optical out on the Omni and then on to the Modi then out to the amp, correct?
  
 Not sure whether to buy an internal or external sound card for my PC. I definitely have room for an internal as I'm not running my GPUs in SLI. I'm thinking of keeping the Mixamp as my console gaming device and buying either the Omni, another external 5.1 card or an internal card. Not quite sure which route to go though.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Stillhart,
> How are you liking the Omni? Does the Omni>Optical Modi>M-Stage work well for music? I'm thinking of purchasing an Omni and Optimodi as well as the Vali for the ultimate PC virtual surround setup. You have it going from USB to Omni to Optical out on the Omni and then on to the Modi then out to the amp, correct?
> 
> Not sure whether to buy an internal or external sound card for my PC. I definitely have room for an internal as I'm not running my GPUs in SLI. I'm thinking of keeping the Mixamp as my console gaming device and buying either the Omni, another external 5.1 card or an internal card. Not quite sure which route to go though.


 
  
 The simple answer is yes, it works VERY well for music.  The order you have things there is correct.
  
 The more complicated answer is that I don't think the Modi is enough of an improvement over the Omni to validate the $100 price tag.  It is an improvement, but it's not dramatic.  If you already have the Omni, I'd recommend saving the money on the Modi.  Moving up into a more expensive price bracket is probably the way to go, but it seems weird to have a $300 DAC with a $120 Amp.  You're probably better off spending $200 on a used M-stage or Asgard and using the Omni for your DAC.
  
 I'm going to keep mine for now because I am enjoying the sound, but I can definitely see myself upgrading in the future.
  
 Regarding internal vs external sound cards... I basically got the Omni over the Z simply because it was cheaper.  They're basically the same thing.  I got mine "Like New" from AWD for $65.


----------



## Murder Mike

grumpy1471 said:


> Stillhart,
> How are you liking the Omni? Does the Omni>Optical Modi>M-Stage work well for music? I'm thinking of purchasing an Omni and Optimodi as well as the Vali for the ultimate PC virtual surround setup. You have it going from USB to Omni to Optical out on the Omni and then on to the Modi then out to the amp, correct?
> 
> Not sure whether to buy an internal or external sound card for my PC. I definitely have room for an internal as I'm not running my GPUs in SLI. I'm thinking of keeping the Mixamp as my console gaming device and buying either the Omni, another external 5.1 card or an internal card. Not quite sure which route to go though.


 
  
 If you can buy an internal Sound Blaster Z or X-fi Titanium for less than you can get an Omni for, I would do that. If you want to stick to Dolby Headphone, you can grab a Xonar DGX for even less.


----------



## Evshrug

My Omni just returned from a loaning spree, also just last night finished reprogramming my "hotwired" wifi for my computer, and then this morning $1000 worth of mail packages arrived (just before work, didn't have time to open)...

It's interesting, going from using my Q701 straight out from my Recon3D USB (sometimes using the E12) for a few months to finally getting to use the Omni, I'm pretty comfortable saying the sound is sweeter and easier on the ears... with the Q701 just plugged straight in. I am again impressed by the Omni.

Soon I will also be chaining my optical DAC (one of the mail packages) to my Omni, and reconnecting my Tube Amp for the first time since moving, and I've got my K712 back (in the other mail package, along with another borrowed headphone for review), so hopefully the heavens will open up and rain "Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response" upon my spine 

But seriously, my Omni plugged straight into my USB3 port on my desktop computer IS clearly an upgrade from the console processor/DACs. Those are no slouches and adequate for gaming, but the Omni is more fun  And, I did not notice much difference going from SB Z to Omni. I say pick one of those two, since you can later upgrade as high as you want later with an Optical DAC and external amp. I chose the Omni because it's also Mac-compatible, so I can use it with whatever next computer I get or share with laptop users.

Only thing I've gotta figure out? How to plug in both the amp and DAC to clean power, plugging into my Monster power strip adds noisiness and weirdness.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> My Omni just returned from a loaning spree, also just last night finished reprogramming my "hotwired" wifi for my computer, and then this morning $1000 worth of mail packages arrived (just before work, didn't have time to open)...
> 
> It's interesting, going from using my Q701 straight out from my Recon3D USB (sometimes using the E12) for a few months to finally getting to use the Omni, I'm pretty comfortable saying the sound is sweeter and easier on the ears... with the Q701 just plugged straight in. I am again impressed by the Omni.
> 
> ...


 
 What optical DAC did you end up getting? You'll have to let me know how much it helps with the Omni. I want to know whether or not to buy a DAC as well when I end up ordering the Vali (it costs the same for shipping to order one Schiit product as it does to order two). 
  
 Also, when I use my Mixamp with my K712s, the harshness of the highs seems to be increased a bit. Did you see a noticeable reduction in harshness with the tube amp and your AKGs? Does the Omni also reduce the harshness?


----------



## conquerator2

grumpy1471 said:


> What optical DAC did you end up getting? You'll have to let me know how much it helps with the Omni. I want to know whether or not to buy a DAC as well when I end up ordering the Vali (it costs the same for shipping to order one Schiit product as it does to order two).
> 
> Also, when I use my Mixamp with my K712s, the harshness of the highs seems to be increased a bit. Did you see a noticeable reduction in harshness with the tube amp and your AKGs? Does the Omni also reduce the harshness?


 
 I can confirm that warmer sources/amplifiers/op-amps/etc. do help to tame the highs in general [i.e. my K612s so the same would apply for K7XX or any other headphone].
 Obviously tubes are classified as one of the warmer [if not warmest] sources but a few tubes make an exception to the rule [usually not the stock ones though, so getting a sound that is less warm usually requires tube rolling]


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> My Omni just returned from a loaning spree, also just last night finished reprogramming my "hotwired" wifi for my computer, and then this morning $1000 worth of mail packages arrived (just before work, didn't have time to open)...
> 
> It's interesting, going from using my Q701 straight out from my Recon3D USB (sometimes using the E12) for a few months to finally getting to use the Omni, I'm pretty comfortable saying the sound is sweeter and easier on the ears... with the Q701 just plugged straight in. I am again impressed by the Omni.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can get a power filter like this - http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/amp/Power%20filter/PowerEN.htm
  
 Don't need to nessasarily get the Audio-GD one as it is very expensive, something from APC will be fine.


----------



## Evshrug

Tubes aren't inherently warm... Cheap ones can be kinda wooly, but good NOS ones (steals are available on eBay!) can have a superior sense of detail and soundstage separation... But there's a lot more variety in tubes than in SS-amps.

Sometimes, you don't have to reduce the treble (via EQ or a dark amp) to avoid fatigue; sparkle isn't mutually exclusive from sweetness and smoothness.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Tubes aren't inherently warm... Cheap ones can be kinda wooly, but good NOS ones (steals are available on eBay!) can have a superior sense of detail and soundstage separation... But there's a lot more variety in tubes than in SS-amps.
> 
> Sometimes, you don't have to reduce the treble (via EQ or a dark amp) to avoid fatigue; sparkle isn't mutually exclusive from sweetness and smoothness.


 

 We want to know what's in those little packages..put us all out of our misery!


----------



## grumpy1471

martin vegas said:


> We want to know what's in those little packages..put us all out of our misery!


 
 Ditto... TELL US!!


----------



## Murder Mike

There are only 2 mystery items. One being the optical DAC (probably a Modi) and the other being a mystery headphone for review (probably the K612 Pro). Everything else was stuff he was getting back. That is unless I completely misread his post before.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> We want to know what's in those little packages..put us all out of our misery!




All Head-Fi related gear 
I haven't even been able to open the boxes yet, just got 'em safely inside. Wouldn't want to say one thing, open the boxes and find out I was wrong


----------



## grumpy1471

murder mike said:


> There are only 2 mystery items. One being the optical DAC (probably a Modi) and the other being a mystery headphone for review (probably the K612 Pro). Everything else was stuff he was getting back.


 
  


evshrug said:


> All Head-Fi related gear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just wanna find out what DAC you got and how it works with the Omni. I'm holding off my Schiit purchase until I find out! No pressure!


----------



## Stillhart

I heard he's beta testing the Ragnarok and Yggdrassil.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> All Head-Fi related gear
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Do a unboxing video!


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Tubes aren't inherently warm... Cheap ones can be kinda wooly, but good NOS ones (steals are available on eBay!) can have a superior sense of detail and soundstage separation... But there's a lot more variety in tubes than in SS-amps.
> 
> Sometimes, you don't have to reduce the treble (via EQ or a dark amp) to avoid fatigue; sparkle isn't mutually exclusive from sweetness and smoothness.


 

 That is true, it's not warmth that separates tubes from solid state. Tubes do have a different sound though. Best way to describe tubes is that tubes have a more analog sound. Cheaper tubes can be a bit wooly like you said. And some tubes are extremely transparent and very clear sounding with sparkle but also sweet and smooth sounding.


----------



## Evshrug

It's the sweetness, liquid mids, and natural feeling soundstage that I've heard with my favourite tubes that I enjoy most about tubes.

The famous bugle boy 6DJ8 I tested actually was harsh, I used it for a few months but ultimately it wasn't what I wanted.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> It's the sweetness, liquid mids, and natural feeling soundstage that I've heard with my favourite tubes that I enjoy most about tubes.
> 
> The famous bugle boy 6DJ8 I tested actually was harsh, I used it for a few months but ultimately it wasn't what I wanted.


 
  
 Quit stalling and open your boxes!


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> It's the sweetness, liquid mids, and natural feeling soundstage that I've heard with my favourite tubes that I enjoy most about tubes.
> 
> The famous bugle boy 6DJ8 I tested actually was harsh, I used it for a few months but ultimately it wasn't what I wanted.


 

 That's the analog sound. The sound has a certain body, depth, and roundness that I just haven't heard on a SS amp. The closer sounding something is to analog the more natural and real it sounds. I've heard a full analog system, it's so real and smooth sounding with the best soundstage I have ever heard. It was the closest I have ever heard music to the real thing on a headphone. I can't really use SS amps anymore for gaming because the soundstage doesn't sound right.
  
 I know how that is. When I switched to my Siemens 6AK5W tubes a while ago the sound became so smooth, clear, and transparent.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

All this talk of tube amps has me seriously considering making one a priority purchase. First I've got to figure out where along the audio chain my problem is coming from.


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> All this talk of tube amps has me seriously considering making one a priority purchase. First I've got to figure out where along the audio chain my problem is coming from.


 

 It may fix the problem you have. What does your audio chain consist of?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> It may fix the problem you have. What does your audio chain consist of?


 
 PC (USB 2.0) > Omni > headphones
  
 I just don't know if it's something wrong in the chain of components in the PC before it gets to the USB port, rather than the audio chain from USB onwards.


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> PC (USB 2.0) > Omni > headphones
> 
> I just don't know if it's something wrong in the chain of components in the PC before it gets to the USB port, rather than the audio chain from USB onwards.


 
 Well the only part of the audio chain that is on the PC is the software for the soundcard and the audio files. Something I learned is that always have the sampling rate of the sound card or DAC at the highest or near the highest setting. USB audio can be a little iffy, I had to hook my DAC up to one of my USB 3.0 jacks on my computer to avoid the clipping I would get otherwise.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> Well the only part of the audio chain that is on the PC is the software for the soundcard and the audio files. Something I learned is that always have the sampling rate of the sound card or DAC at the highest or near the highest setting. USB audio can be a little iffy, I had to hook my DAC up to one of my USB 3.0 jacks on my computer to avoid the clipping I would get otherwise.


 
 I'm almost certain that it is digital clipping that I've been experiencing. I've just gone into my sound settings. The strange thing is that last time I tried the test button, above 48,000 hz it said that the audio device was being used by another programme, so I left it at 48,000. This time the test worked fine at 96,000, so I'll try running it like that and see how I get on.
  
 BTW, every time I've tried the WMA pro Audio test it's told me that it is being used by another programme. Should I check that box?
  
 Thanks for prompting me to test again


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm almost certain that it is digital clipping that I've been experiencing. I've just gone into my sound settings. The strange thing is that last time I tried the test button, above 48,000 hz it said that the audio device was being used by another programme, so I left it at 48,000. This time the test worked fine at 96,000, so I'll try running it like that and see how I get on.
> 
> BTW, every time I've tried the WMA pro Audio test it's told me that it is being used by another programme. Should I check that box?
> 
> Thanks for prompting me to test again


 

 Ah I see, the clipping is quite obvious it's like random instant interruptions in playback. You probably had music, an online video, a game, etc. going at the time. What really makes a difference is 16 bit to 24 bit, the sound of everything becomes fuller and more organic. Just select okay when it says that, it usually means you are playing an audio file of sort somewhere.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> Ah I see, the clipping is quite obvious it's like random instant interruptions in playback. You probably had music, an online video, a game, etc. going at the time. What really makes a difference is 16 bit to 24 bit, the sound of everything becomes fuller and more organic. Just select okay when it says that, it usually means you are playing an audio file of sort somewhere.


 
 *One finger placed on nose while excitedly pointing at you with the other hand* That's the problem I've been having!
  
 I already had the audio at 24 bit, just not at the maximum sample rate. I'm really hoping that is what was causing the problem.
  
 Should I check the WMA Pro Audio box then?
  
 And thank you again (I'm happily excited that this may have solved the issue).


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> *One finger placed on nose while excitedly pointing at you with the other hand* That's the problem I've been having!
> 
> I already had the audio at 24 bit, just not at the maximum sample rate. I'm really hoping that is what was causing the problem.
> 
> ...


 

 Ah I see. Do you have a USB 3.0 jack on your computer? If not, I would try other USB jacks and maybe use different USB cables if you have any on the computer and see if any help with the issue if it isn't solved. I found clipping a USB issue, some USB jacks are dirtier than others, some may clip a lot and some don't clip at all, I found all the USB 3.0 jacks I tried clean though and free of clipping and distortion.
  
 Yea, I would just check the box. The sampling rate is more of an audio quality thing but it may help with some other issues.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

kman1211 said:


> Ah I see. Do you have a USB 3.0 jack on your computer? If not, I would try other USB jacks and maybe use different USB cables if you have any on the computer and see if any help with the issue if it isn't solved. I found clipping a USB issue, some USB jacks are dirtier than others, some may clip a lot and some don't clip at all, I found all the USB 3.0 jacks I tried clean though and free of clipping and distortion.
> 
> Yea, I would just check the box. The sampling rate is more of an audio quality thing but it may help with some other issues.


 
 Thank you my good man. I shall see how things go and report back after some testing (not tonight though).
  
 I'm going to spend a little time researching some tube amps, then I'm off to bed.
  
 Thanks for taking the time to help me troubleshoot 
  
 Edit: I don't have USB 3.0. If I still have problems I'll try different ports and/or cables.


----------



## kman1211

napalmhardcore said:


> Thank you my good man. I shall see how things go and report back after some testing (not tonight though).
> 
> I'm going to spend a little time researching some tube amps, then I'm off to bed.
> 
> ...


 

 No problem. Hopefully you get the problem solved. The clipping issue doesn't effect all USB dacs and USB soundcards, some are more sensitive to dirty USB jacks than others, electronics can be fickle at times.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Hahaha! Nice! Coming this summer to a theater near you!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I step away for a day and Change busts out my high school yearbook photos. So mean.


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> No problem. Hopefully you get the problem solved. The clipping issue doesn't effect all USB dacs and USB soundcards, some are more sensitive to dirty USB jacks than others, electronics can be fickle at times.



Right.
I don't think my USB 3 ports are inherently less "dirty" than USB 2 ports just because they're USB (USB 2 carries more than enough bandwidth to carry pretty much all audio bitrates, I believe even 12mbps USB 1 is technically capable). What I really think is going on is that some USB ports share bandwidth or controllers with desktop case front-USB-headers or aren't well isolated from other electronic interference... USB3 just happens to be new enough and sparse enough that it does tend to not be sharing resources with other components. 

On motherboards/computers with "only" USB 2, I suggest keeping peripherals like keyboards and mice plugged in a group near each other (in a serial port, if possible), perhaps unplugging stuff like printers and external harddrives (IMO everyone should have an HDD for backups, you will need a backup one day), and plug audio devices, like an Omni, far away from other stuff.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Right.
> I don't think my USB 3 ports are inherently less "dirty" than USB 2 ports just because they're USB (USB 2 carries more than enough bandwidth to carry pretty much all audio bitrates, I believe even 12mbps USB 1 is technically capable). What I really think is going on is that some USB ports share bandwidth or controllers with desktop case front-USB-headers or aren't well isolated from other electronic interference... USB3 just happens to be new enough and sparse enough that it does tend to not be sharing resources with other components.
> 
> On motherboards/computers with "only" USB 2, I suggest keeping peripherals like keyboards and mice plugged in a group near each other (in a serial port, if possible), perhaps unplugging stuff like printers and external harddrives (IMO everyone should have an HDD for backups, you will need a backup one day), and plug audio devices, like an Omni, far away from other stuff.


 
 That is probably the problem then as the clipping only tends to happen on more power hungry USB dacs. USB 3 tends to have it's own USB controller in computers(the case with my desktop and laptop) which leads to it not sharing resources with the USB 2/1 ports. They are probably made to a higher standard as well due to their sparsity which leads to less electrical interference and making them cleaner overall. In future computers when USB 3 becomes mainstream the same problem may start happening with them.


----------



## IBeBallin

Hey Evshrug where is that comparison video you promised? I'm waiting on people that have different devices with updated firmware post their opinions on audio and mic quality before buying anything. As a matter of fact, I think I found a post of MadLustEnvy over on astro tech support forums from a few years ago saying that the 2013 mixamp has horrible mic quality. It is unfortunate that there are no good products overall. The Recon 3d usb is not good for me since it does not have dolby headphone/digital, the mixamp 5.8 wireless is not good since you need to buy a battery for it to work more than 2-3 hours (and the fact that it's wireless), the 2013 mixamp from the looks of it has less inputs, horrible mic quality, the dss2 is not DH. So at this point its either the 2011 mixamp or the tritton.


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> That is probably the problem then as the clipping only tends to happen on more power hungry USB dacs. USB 3 tends to have it's own USB controller in computers(the case with my desktop and laptop) which leads to it not sharing resources with the USB 2/1 ports. They are probably made to a higher standard as well due to their sparsity which leads to less electrical interference and making them cleaner overall. In future computers when USB 3 becomes mainstream the same problem may start happening with them.



So basically, exactly what I just said but in slightly different words 





ibeballin said:


> Hey Evshrug where is that comparison video you promised?
> 1.)The Recon 3d usb is not good for me since it does not have dolby headphone/digital,
> 2.) the mixamp 5.8 wireless is not good since you need to buy a battery for it to work more than 2-3 hours (and the fact that it's wireless),
> 3.) the 2013 mixamp from the looks of it has less inputs, horrible mic quality, the dss2 is not DH.
> 4.) So at this point its either the 2011 mixamp or the tritton.




Thank you for your interest! I finished it, but it was too long to post to YouTube. I'm going to make a playlist for these and split them up.

One thing I'd like to mention: Dolby headphone is good, but different people's ears will work better with different surround DSPs, so if you've never heard another option then you don't need to automatically not count it as a viable option.

1.) As I said above, THX processing is no slouch, actually my personal favorite for consoles (with my ears).
2.) I got more hours than that with my AAA's, but a rechargeable battery pack waaaaay pays for itself in the long run anyway. Wireless is always a trade off, the Mixamp 5.8 is less of a trade-off than built-in solutions but still people will differ in opinion if it's worth it.
3.)mic quality is up to the mic used, I think they took away the ports to use for LANs but I'm not sure (haven't had one of these 2013 models myself).
4.) If you've narrowed it down for you, that can be good, but you've made a few assumptions that *might* make you miss out on possibly your best solution.


----------



## mmencius

stillhart said:


> I heard he's beta testing the Ragnarok and Yggdrassil.


 
 God I love their names.
  


kman1211 said:


> That is true, it's not warmth that separates tubes from solid state. Tubes do have a different sound though. Best way to describe tubes is that tubes have a more analog sound. Cheaper tubes can be a bit wooly like you said. And some tubes are extremely transparent and very clear sounding with sparkle but also sweet and smooth sounding.


 
 Questions about some stuff that's been floating around:
 1. Perhaps this has been discussed earlier in this thread (perhaps a zillion times) but I'm interested in opinions on tube amps vs solid state amps. I was looking at the Magni vs Vali and I noticed the massive difference in output impedance. Then I did some other reading about tube amps' "warm sound." Is it not the case that tube amps get this by massive distorting the sound, increasing the bass and colouring the mids? That if we want to listen to the whole sound we should just get a SS amp which just leaves the sound as is?
  
 2. As for sound cards, I read some opinions that they make absolutely no difference over plugging headphones directly into the onboard audio (as long as you plug headphones into the motherboard directly rather than the front), and all they do is add output impedance.
  
 3. In particular, Stillhart, you're using PC->Omni->Modi->M-stage? I don't understand what the Omni is doing here. I thought the point of a DAC+amp was to take digital audio from the harddrive and process it into an analog signal externally from the PC (and thus avoid all the introduction of noise inside the PC which is the reason some people use sound cards in the first place).
  
 No disrespect intended, it's very likely that I'm missing something.


----------



## grumpy1471

mmencius said:


> God I love their names.
> 
> Questions about some stuff that's been floating around:
> 1. Perhaps this has been discussed earlier in this thread (perhaps a zillion times) but I'm interested in opinions on tube amps vs solid state amps. I was looking at the Magni vs Vali and I noticed the massive difference in output impedance. Then I did some other reading about tube amps' "warm sound." Is it not the case that tube amps get this by massive distorting the sound, increasing the bass and colouring the mids? That if we want to listen to the whole sound we should just get a SS amp which just leaves the sound as is?
> ...




I may be able to answer some of these...

As for the Magni vs Vali, it all depends on what type of cans you are using. I'm gonna end up getting the Vali as it will help with the harshness of the K712's highs. Again, not all tube amps distort or make the sound warmer. It all depends on the tubes. It was mentioned here that some tubes can be very analytical and transparent.

Sound cards DO in fact make a difference. Plugging your headphones directly into a MOBO is essentially like using a bad source (depends on the MOBO). A soundcard is a nice thing to have. It all depends on whether you want an external or internal sound card. Both can help with sq. 

When it comes to the Omni, Stillhart is using it as an external sound card. It's also how he's getting the virtual 5.1 surround sound. It is in fact a DAC and amp combo. It's taking the audio via USB and converting it into either 5.1 or two channel sound (depending on what you want). 

I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to these things (especially when I'm compared to the others who frequently answer questions in the thread). Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong for any of these points.


----------



## conquerator2

mmencius said:


> God I love their names.
> 
> Questions about some stuff that's been floating around:
> 1. Perhaps this has been discussed earlier in this thread (perhaps a zillion times) but I'm interested in opinions on tube amps vs solid state amps. I was looking at the Magni vs Vali and I noticed the massive difference in output impedance. Then I did some other reading about tube amps' "warm sound." Is it not the case that tube amps get this by massive distorting the sound, increasing the bass and colouring the mids? That if we want to listen to the whole sound we should just get a SS amp which just leaves the sound as is?
> ...


 
 2. I think that's simply wrong. Integrated on-board [Realtek, etc.] simply does terribly with headphones IMO. The sound is very often muddy and lacks any definition [tested with my own Realtek] and that's when an internal/external soundcard comes in. Some are made to work well with headphones and eliminate the purpose for a stand-alone headphone DAC/amp. Many headphones do fairly well with a decent soundcard, but the most demanding or power-hungry headphones will always benefit from a dedicated headphone amp/DAC. 
  
 3. Omni serves to provide the signal processing [DH, SBX, THX, etc. ] only. It doesn't do anything else [like converting the signal from digital to analogue or amping, that's what the other two do.] but processing, much like U3, etc. can, then Modi does the DAC function and Mstage amps it.
  
 EDIT: grumpy is right too.


----------



## grumpy1471

conquerator2 said:


> 2. I think that's simply wrong. Integrated on-board [Realtek, etc.] simply does terribly with headphones IMO. The sound is very often muddy and lacks any definition [tested with my own Realtek] and that's when an internal/external soundcard comes in. Some are made to work well with headphones and eliminate the purpose for a stand-alone headphone DAC/amp. Many headphones do fairly well with a decent soundcard, but the most demanding or power-hungry headphones will always benefit from a dedicated headphone amp/DAC.
> 
> 3. Omni serves to provide the DSP [DH, SBX, THX, etc. ] only. It doesn't do anything else but processing, much like U3, etc. then Modi does the DAC function and Mstage amps it.
> 
> EDIT: grumpy is right too.




You answered #3 a lot better. Essentially, Stillhart is bypassing the Omni's DAC and amp features and offloading those to the Modi and M-Stage, correct?


----------



## conquerator2

grumpy1471 said:


> You answered #3 a lot better. Essentially, Stillhart is bypassing the Omni's DAC and amp features and offloading those to the Modi and M-Stage, correct?


 
 yes, the Omni acts as a processor only, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Evshrug

mmencius said:


> God I love their names.
> 
> Questions about some stuff that's been floating around:
> 
> 2. As for sound cards, I read some opinions that they make absolutely no difference over plugging headphones directly into the onboard audio (as long as you plug headphones into the motherboard directly rather than the front), and all they do is add output impedance.



Have you been watching TekSyndicate?



conquerator2 said:


> yes, the Omni acts as a processor only, nothing more, nothing less.



Almost... It is also acting as a USB to Optical converter, and I believe the mic could still be used.


----------



## iamstumper

Just a quick update for the Vmoda BoomPro Headphone Compatibility List.
  
 I am able to use the Vmoda's with the Martin Logan Mikros 90.  Tested on my desktop and laptop using Mumble, and on my phone with calls.
 Once @Zombie_X has the mini XLR to 3.5mm adapter ready, I look forward to using with my K712's as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

  
  


> *Vmoda BoomPro Headphone Compatibility List:*
> This list will be updated and may be changed. Currently, this is *only* a list of headphones I know that are capable of being used with the Vmoda BoomPro, *not* a list of recommendations.
> 
> Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
> ...


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> *Have you been watching TekSyndicate?*
> Almost... It is also acting as a USB to Optical converter, and I believe the mic could still be used.


 
 TekSyndicate is good IMO.
 I enjoy watching it even though I am mostly a console guy... Logan & Wendel


----------



## mmencius

kman1211 said:


> That is true, it's not warmth that separates tubes from solid state. Tubes do have a different sound though. Best way to describe tubes is that tubes have a more analog sound. Cheaper tubes can be a bit wooly like you said. And some tubes are extremely transparent and very clear sounding with sparkle but also sweet and smooth sounding.


 
 I don't understand: I thought the whole point of modern SS amps was to reduce output impedance and power consumption and ultimately to affect the sound as little as possible. If you need a tube amp to tame the highs of a particular headphone (because the unaltered sound as the developers intended would be too harsh), doesn't that mean that you should just get a different headphone? I can see how a tube amp can a) subtract sound through impedance and b) colour sound... but what can it positively contribute?
 Not meaning to be judgemental at all, I'm just confused what they add over SS amps.
  


kman1211 said:


> That's the analog sound. The sound has a certain body, depth, and roundness that I just haven't heard on a SS amp. The closer sounding something is to analog the more natural and real it sounds. I've heard a full analog system, it's so real and smooth sounding with the best soundstage I have ever heard. It was the closest I have ever heard music to the real thing on a headphone. I can't really use SS amps anymore for gaming because the soundstage doesn't sound right.
> 
> I know how that is. When I switched to my Siemens 6AK5W tubes a while ago the sound became so smooth, clear, and transparent.


 
 Why should accurate uncolouring digital conversion make the sound less real?
  


evshrug said:


> Have you been watching TekSyndicate?
> Almost... It is also acting as a USB to Optical converter, and I believe the mic could still be used.


 
 Yes.
  
 OK so in summary, if I want to listen to game audio from a PS3/PS4 and music from PC, what do I need?
 From PS3: no USB audio output, so no DAC, and a Magni/Vali doesn't have optical input (why on earth not) so I have to use component wires (is that lower quality than optical?).
 For PS4: is a DAC and amp a good idea there?
 For PC: even if you guys like sound cards, if I use a DAC + amp then I don't need a sound card, right? So why do people use sound cards (even if it is superior to onboard audio, is it superior to DAC+amp)?


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> TekSyndicate is good IMO.
> I enjoy watching it even though I am mostly a console guy... Logan & Wendel



I only saw the one episode about soundcards... It was a bit like watching Bill O'Reilly, except there was nobody to provide a counterpoint (and talk over).




mmencius said:


> I don't understand: I thought the whole point of modern SS amps was to reduce output impedance and power consumption and ultimately to affect the sound as little as possible. If you need a tube amp to tame the highs of a particular headphone (because the unaltered sound as the developers intended would be too harsh), doesn't that mean that you should just get a different headphone? I can see how a tube amp can a) subtract sound through impedance and b) colour sound... but what can it positively contribute?
> 
> OK so in summary, if I want to listen to game audio from a PS3/PS4 and music from PC, what do I need?
> From PS3: no USB audio output, so no DAC, and a Magni/Vali doesn't have optical input (why on earth not) so I have to use component wires (is that lower quality than optical?).
> ...



For consoles, the surround processors are also DACs (digital to analogue). Amps only provide the power for analogue signals. The Magni and Vali are amps... that's why they don't have digital inputs.

Soundcards are a step up in DAC quality and amping power compared to motherboards (the best motherboard integrated sound components are still noisier and less powerful than an entry-level card like an Asus Xonar DGS or Creative Soundblaster Z/Omni), and they also offer headphone surround processing. Motherboards are getting more capable and often are good enough to get by (used to be you had to add a soundcard to get audio AT ALL), and a dedicated headphone gear will still be another step up from soundcards, but soundcards still have their place and are convenient all-in-one solutions.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> I only saw the one episode about soundcards... It was a bit like watching Bill O'Reilly, except there was nobody to provide a counterpoint (and talk over).
> For consoles, the surround processors are also DACs (digital to analogue). Amps only provide the power for analogue signals. The Magni and Vali are amps... that's why they don't have digital inputs.
> 
> Soundcards are a step up in DAC quality and amping power compared to motherboards (the best motherboard integrated sound components are still noisier and less powerful than an entry-level card like an Asus Xonar DGS or Creative Soundblaster Z/Omni), and they also offer headphone surround processing. Motherboards are getting more capable and often are good enough to get by (used to be you had to add a soundcard to get audio AT ALL), and a dedicated headphone gear will still be another step up from soundcards, but soundcards still have their place and are convenient all-in-one solutions.


 

 Stop changing the subject..what was in the packages? or is it a bit of a touchy subject!


----------



## Change is Good

martin vegas said:


> Stop changing the subject..what was in the packages? or is it a bit of a touchy subject!


 
  
 Guys, the more you ask... the more you stroke his ego....
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



The big package contains his K712 and my K612. My guess is the other package contains a Bifrost that was for sale in the classifieds, and is no longer there...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Guys, the more you ask... the more you stroke his ego....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Right... ego...


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> I don't understand: I thought the whole point of modern SS amps was to reduce output impedance and power consumption and ultimately to affect the sound as little as possible. If you need a tube amp to tame the highs of a particular headphone (because the unaltered sound as the developers intended would be too harsh), doesn't that mean that you should just get a different headphone? I can see how a tube amp can a) subtract sound through impedance and b) colour sound... but what can it positively contribute?
> Not meaning to be judgemental at all, I'm just confused what they add over SS amps.
> 
> Why should accurate uncolouring digital conversion make the sound less real?
> ...



You're missing out on a MAJOR factor: surround processing. It's why we use things like the mixamp and the omni.

If you want surround from your console, get a mixanp or recon and work from there.

If you ONLY want to listen to music from your PC, get a USB DAC and an amp (or a combo) and skip the sound card. 

If you game on your PC, you need a sound card for surround processing. All sound cards are amp and DAC too, you can start with that and then expand over time. Add an amp and then a DAC if you feel the need to upgrade.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I've not got a separate DAC or amp so am unable to test for myself, and the documentation for the Omni isn't the most comprehensive. So my question is, what connection out of the Omni do you use to bypass the DAC and amp? Do you use the line level speaker output? The reason I ask is because it seems to be intended as a speaker output. Therefore I wouldn't have *necessarily* expected it to carry the virtual surround signal, but instead bypass the headphone processing and send a standard stereo signal. Unless you guys have only been using it with DAC's and amps with optical inputs.
  
 Can someone explain this to me please.


----------



## grumpy1471

I just ordered up the Omni and the Vali. The Vali should be here in around 4 days and the Omni in 3-11 days. Hopefully these make the K712 worth keeping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I had to pay $100 CAD for the Omni and.... *gulp* $170 CAD for the Vali. Darn those international shipping rates!
  
 I sure hope that I will be in audio heaven when I combine the Omni, Vali and K712!


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> I've not got a separate DAC or amp so am unable to test for myself, and the documentation for the Omni isn't the most comprehensive. So my question is, what connection out of the Omni do you use to bypass the DAC and amp? Do you use the line level speaker output? The reason I ask is because it seems to be intended as a speaker output. Therefore I wouldn't have *necessarily* expected it to carry the virtual surround signal, but instead bypass the headphone processing and send a standard stereo signal. Unless you guys have only been using it with DAC's and amps with optical inputs.
> 
> Can someone explain this to me please.


 
  
 If you want to use just an amp, use the RCA outs from the Omni to the amp.
  
 If you want to use a DAC and an Amp, you MUST use the optical out into an optical DAC, then RCA from DAC to Amp.
  
 Once you're using speaker outputs, it's already been converted to analogue.  The optical output is the only way to get a digital signal to the DAC for conversion.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> If you want to use just an amp, use the RCA outs from the Omni to the amp.
> 
> If you want to use a DAC and an Amp, you MUST use the optical out into an optical DAC, then RCA from DAC to Amp.
> 
> Once you're using speaker outputs, it's already been converted to analogue.  The optical output is the only way to get a digital signal to the DAC for conversion.


 
 I've just realised how silly the DAC part of my question was. But does the surround processing get sent via the RCA outs (and just to confirm, you do mean the RCA speaker outs right?). I've become interested in the prospect of a tube amp and am just getting it clear in my head how everything goes together. Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> I've just realised how silly the DAC part of my question was. But does the surround processing get sent via the RCA outs (and just to confirm, you do mean the RCA speaker outs right?). I've become interested in the prospect of a tube amp and am just getting it clear in my head how everything goes together. Thanks


 
  
 Yes, of course, the surround processing goes through all the outputs.  I'm not sure how the RCA ports are labeled but they're the only ones on there.  Generally on most devices, the RCA output is line-level out (since it's usually going to an amp from there).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> Yes, of course, the surround processing goes through all the outputs.  I'm not sure how the RCA ports are labeled but they're the only ones on there.  Generally on most devices, the RCA output is line-level out (since it's usually going to an amp from there).


 
 That's great, thank you.
  
 I just wanted to be sure because in my research over the last year I have heard of instances in some equipment where certain outputs do not carry processed signals. I cannot recall what piece of equipment it was and in what usage context, but I'm suspecting it was a pass-through.


----------



## Stillhart

NP.  And to be clear, I've actually used my Omni in all three configurations:  DSP only, DSP+DAC, and DSP+DAC+Amp.  It's one of the reasons I got the Omni.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> NP.  And to be clear, I've actually used my Omni in all three configurations:  DSP only, DSP+DAC, and DSP+DAC+Amp.  It's one of the reasons I got the Omni.


 
 I think I'll be trying the DSP+DAC combined with a separate amp configuration in the near future


----------



## Stillhart

napalmhardcore said:


> I think I'll be trying the DSP+DAC combined with a separate amp configuration in the near future


 

 That's what Grumpy is doing too, and I think it's your best "bang for the buck" config.  My $100 Schiit Modi DAC is nice, but it's not $100 better than my Omni.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> If you want to use just an amp, use the RCA outs from the Omni to the amp.



The guys on the Soundblaster Z, Zx, & ZxR thread discovered that the RCA outputs (which only work when you switch to speaker mode) use a different kind of surround processing intended to make near-field computer desktop speakers sound "surroundy." The Omni also comes with an RCA male to 3.5mm headphone jack female adapter.

If you want headphone surround processing, you connect an external amp to the headphone jack. I've not had a problem amping with a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable.




axelcloris said:


> Right... ego...




Oooh... Aaaaah...


Also Change, way to trick people by using a spoiler tag for an actual spoiler for once. You're no fun, give a busy working guy a break


----------



## Napalmhardcore

stillhart said:


> That's what Grumpy is doing too, and I think it's your best "bang for the buck" config.  My $100 Schiit Modi DAC is nice, but it's not $100 better than my Omni.


 
 I'm fairly new to the headphone and hifi scene, so I haven't really formed any expectations yet. However I do play guitar, so I have an appreciation for how different equipment can have an affect on sound, whether it be night and day or subtle.
  
 One of the night and day differences in the guitar world is solid state vs tube. I always thought that headphone amplification and hifi in general was solid state territory. I've only recently become aware that tube vs solid state is also a big thing with headphone amps too. This is a big reason why I've taken an interest in tube amps all of a sudden.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, so I intended this to be a bit silly, but I was opening this blind on camera... and this may be the weirdest unboxing I'll ever have.

Warning! No tripod was used in the making of this video, and I was laughing on the inside more and more as I filmed this!

[Video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlvmAgchSJU[/Video]


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Ok, so I intended this to be a bit silly, but I was opening this blind on camera... and this may be the weirdest unboxing I'll ever have.
> 
> Warning! No tripod was used in the making of this video, and I was laughing on the inside more and more as I filmed this!


 
 There will be some men with white coats arriving at your house shortly. Let them in. They are nice men, and it's for your own good. They have a nice sweater for you too. It's a little tricky to put on (and especially hard to take off), but they will help you


----------



## Evshrug

They won't find me, I'll be riding a rainbow to the land of the gods :3

Also, a little disclaimer...
I DO NOT RECOMMEND trying to *KEEP UP WITH THE JONESES!*
Grados and Koss KSC-75's and other budget picks are easy to recommend to newcomers, and so is a DSS and/or Omni, because these high-value products set a good bar and give you an idea if the upgrades from your current gear are nice/meaningful to you, and you can play around to find what sonic preferences you have. THEN start upgrading piece by piece, so you have time to understand what each piece gains you.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> They won't find me, I'll be riding a rainbow to the land of the gods :3


 
 I have deployed munchkins to intercept you. You need help!


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> They won't find me, I'll be riding a rainbow to the land of the gods :3


 
  
 Tell Thor I said he's got nice abs.


----------



## Change is Good

Popcorn? Lmao!!!


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Ok, so I intended this to be a bit silly, but I was opening this blind on camera... and this may be the weirdest unboxing I'll ever have.
> 
> Warning! No tripod was used in the making of this video, and I was laughing on the inside more and more as I filmed this!


 

 Was that three pairs of the akg headphones and a schiit dac headphone amp? are you keeping all three headphones or are you just testing them out?


----------



## Zombie_X

Sup,
  
 Is that Change's K612? Screw the Bifrost, I want a Magni. Much I sense in you.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Wait a minute: I was supposed to wrap the headband in that cloth thing, NOT use it as a cable wrap?
  
 Oh well, still felt comfortable enough to me without it.
  
 Yes, that's Change's K612 in that box, and no, I definitely wasn't expecting that Bifrost to come packed in literal popcorn!
  
 ...Is that a second-gen Wacom Bamboo tablet on your desk? Didn't think you'd keep such a thing in portrait orientation, or that you might have one to draw stuff with.
  
 In unrelated news, it turns out my MMX 300's cable is in worse condition than I thought; sometimes the mic portion will cut out, and that's the part that doesn't have a spliced replacement plug! I need to have this thing completely recabled one of these days.


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Was that three pairs of the akg headphones and a schiit dac headphone amp? are you keeping all three headphones or are you just testing them out?


 

 That Ev's K712 (which was sent to MLE for testing), Ev's Q701 and Change's K612.  Also a Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC (not amp).


----------



## Evshrug

Change's K612, my Q701 and K712, and now, my first discrete DAC. It has the über upgrade. Only problem (besides popcorn smell) is that I don't have an RCA to RCA cable, or any music on my computer currently.


----------



## thecalculator

Hey guys. So I've had my Titanium HD and k712 Pros for about a week now. I love it very much. (Coming from a onboard mobo soundcard, Turtle Beach's x11's, and DSS). But it feels like something is missing. An amp maybe? If so. which one should I purchase? Should I use my DSS for the meantime?
  
 Also I'm confused with the game mode. What's everyones settings like? I'm having a hard time with setting the X-FI software to either 5.1 surround, 2.1 speakers, or just headphones. I've tried to look online but all the threads are like 2-4 years old. They said something about configuring windows to 5.1 surround, and having X-FI to headphones. Don't know if thats true or not. Should I enable X-FI CMSS-3D with these headphones? Or enable the other extra settings?
  
 Please help. Thanks.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

This should be the right settings:
  
 Windows to 5.1 /7.1 surround and X-Fi to headphones and enable CMSS-3D for the surround effect.
  
 From Creative website: http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=96663
  
  
 I'm also thinking what good headphone AMP should pair up with TiHD? I own a X-Fi Titanium and O2 and thinking of buying an external DAC (optical) or TiHD? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  (I think this question should be posted on The Nameless Guide to PC Gaming Audio)


----------



## Sam21

you don't have to set the windows to multi channel, CMSS-3D/THX Surround work differently compared with the Dolby Headphone. Just turn on the CMSS-3D in the driver software ...


----------



## thecalculator

goldenboyxd said:


> This should be the right settings:
> 
> Windows to 5.1 /7.1 surround and X-Fi to headphones and enable CMSS-3D for the surround effect.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks man. I'll post on that thread.


sam21 said:


> you don't have to set the windows to multi channel, CMSS-3D/THX Surround work differently compared with the Dolby Headphone. Just turn on the CMSS-3D in the driver software ...


 
 Thanks for the reply. Awesome!


----------



## Stillhart

Welp, my Modi stopped working so I'm returning it.  (Hope they don't charge me shipping to return their broken product, but I'm not expecting much based on my communications with them so far.)
  
 Looking forward to @Evshrug's impressions of the Bifrost since that's next on my list of DAC's to try.


----------



## Sam21

I am going to buy the Bifrost as well...


----------



## jaysins

Anyone here play titanfall on the one? I have the mixamp, k712 pro and an O2 DAC/amp combo and have a very hard time picking up footsteps. Anyone have any experience with this game as I just got the equipment and was wondering if it was more the game.


----------



## grumpy1471

jaysins said:


> Anyone here play titanfall on the one? I have the mixamp, k712 pro and an O2 DAC/amp combo and have a very hard time picking up footsteps. Anyone have any experience with this game as I just got the equipment and was wondering if it was more the game.




If anything, it's the game. When playing Titanfall on PC, there is so much going on around you that you hardly ever have a chance to listen for footsteps. You can kind of hear footsteps if you are lucky enough to be somewhere in which there aren't explosions nor gunshots but otherwise, they aren't too audible for me. You can hear jetpacks and jumping quite a bit better though. I'd say, enjoy the sound and depend more on the minimap for detecting enemies


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> Anyone here play titanfall on the one? I have the mixamp, k712 pro and an O2 DAC/amp combo and have a very hard time picking up footsteps. Anyone have any experience with this game as I just got the equipment and was wondering if it was more the game.


 
 I play it on the Xbone, and the only time I can really hear footsteps is when I'm up an a relatively quiet rooftop.  I've definitely turned and killed folks who were trying to snap my neck... I can just imagine the looks on their faces!  lol
  
 And as grumpy said, jet packs are really loud.  There's a "stealth pack" to fix that at higher levels, but I don't know if I've ever seen it used.
  
 Oh and the Q701 is GREAT for hearing where gunshots are coming from, which is what I use it for more than footsteps.


----------



## jaysins

Awesome. Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Welp, my Modi stopped working so I'm returning it.  (Hope they don't charge me shipping to return their broken product, but I'm not expecting much based on my communications with them so far.)
> 
> Looking forward to @Evshrug
> 's impressions of the Bifrost since that's next on my list of DAC's to try.




I really need some tech support... but I THINK it's just settings with my Omni and Windows.

 I spent too long putzing about and missed the CoD Ghosts free PC weekend, so no easy comparison to what I've been doing on PS4. I tried adjusting settings in the Omni control panel and playing test tones, but I couldn't hear anything. Windows test tones were good, from 16-bit 44k Hz to 24-bit 96k Hz tones all passed through to the Bifrost (and my E12, since I only had an RCA to 3.5mm monster cable, lol). I had heard though that setup should be plug & play, so uninstalled and re-installed the SBX software from Creative's website, and I tried Tomb Raider. Sound worked, but almost immediately I noticed a fwUIIIIIZZZzz static that rises up and lasts 4-5 seconds, and happens once a minute.

I tried touching the cables to see if it was a grounding issue (no), I switched off SBX effects and it seemed to happen less, but it still happened and basically just as frequent and loud (maybe less harsh?). I loaded up Starcraft II to see if it was just one particular game install, but the same thing happened. When I used the Recon3D USB in the past on Mac or PC, I was able to select stereo or 5.1 or "surround" from the SC settings, but interestingly now it was set for stereo and greyed out, the tooltip said "this setting is locked by windows Control Panel settings." 

Now, inbetween this digital static, there was a definite quality increase in "distinctness," but honestly it was hard to stay focused and home into the improvement when I came to expect this noise hassle. Another interesting datapoint: just to try different audio, I opened up a web instance of Pandora radio, some classical music, and it played through the three songs I listened to flawlessly. I mean, they were clearly compressed music files, but it was good. That's why I think it's a settings problem, but since I reinstalled the SBX drivers/suite I'm at a loss for what to do.


----------



## Stillhart

Have you tried the dumb stuff like swapping USB ports, reseating all the cables (including power), etc?  Pandora on the browser works... how about Winamp/foobar/etc?  I can go over some more stuff with you on Steam later.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> I really need some tech support... but I THINK it's just settings with my Omni and Windows.
> 
> I spent too long putzing about and missed the CoD Ghosts free PC weekend, so no easy comparison to what I've been doing on PS4. I tried adjusting settings in the Omni control panel and playing test tones, but I couldn't hear anything. Windows test tones were good, from 16-bit 44k Hz to 24-bit 96k Hz tones all passed through to the Bifrost (and my E12, since I only had an RCA to 3.5mm monster cable, lol). I had heard though that setup should be plug & play, so uninstalled and re-installed the SBX software from Creative's website, and I tried Tomb Raider. Sound worked, but almost immediately I noticed a fwUIIIIIZZZzz static that rises up and lasts 4-5 seconds, and happens once a minute.
> 
> ...


 
 I wonder what the problem is. That's a rather odd issue. Is it an Omni only issue so far? I'm not sure if this works on the Omni or not but have you tried uninstalling the drivers and using the drivers that Windows installs automatically instead of the official drivers? What are your impressions of the K612 so far?


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> I wonder what the problem is. That's a rather odd issue. Is it an Omni only issue so far? I'm not sure if this works on the Omni or not but have you tried uninstalling the drivers and using the drivers that Windows installs automatically instead of the official drivers? What are your impressions of the K612 so far?



The odd part is Pandora working without changing anything at all (settings, USB cable, USB port, Bifrost power outlet). Using default windows drivers would be pointless, because the whole reason I have the Omni is for surround processing.

I haven't gotten to try out the K612 yet, this DAC issue is bugging me and both my LIVE and PSN subscriptions ran out yesterday. I'm gonna see how the PS4 likes having an iPod (loaded with high bitrate or "lossless" files) plugged in and try playing stereo out to the Bifrost. Then, I'll try the K612 after orienting to the DAC change with my Q701 reference.

One nice thing to say: even though there are static futzzes, even though I can't stay focused on the DAC audio quality, I could still tell that there was a positive difference to audio quality. Not a game-changer like my first upgrade from average ~$50 headphones to my first fully circumaural headphone, nor like having surround sound, so not the greatest value like those were, but there is an improvement and it's obviously not my imagination, so that's good


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> The odd part is Pandora working without changing anything at all (settings, USB cable, USB port, Bifrost power outlet). Using default windows drivers would be pointless, because the whole reason I have the Omni is for surround processing.
> 
> I haven't gotten to try out the K612 yet, this DAC issue is bugging me and both my LIVE and PSN subscriptions ran out yesterday. I'm gonna see how the PS4 likes having an iPod (loaded with high bitrate or "lossless" files) plugged in and try playing stereo out to the Bifrost. Then, I'll try the K612 after orienting to the DAC change with my Q701 reference.
> 
> One nice thing to say: even though there are static futzzes, even though I can't stay focused on the DAC audio quality, I could still tell that there was a positive difference to audio quality. Not a game-changer like my first upgrade from average ~$50 headphones to my first fully circumaural headphone, nor like having surround sound, so not the greatest value like those were, but there is an improvement and it's obviously not my imagination, so that's good




True, I was mentioning it as a way to help check if it's a driver issue with the Omni.

Hope you enjoy it and all goes well with iPod and PS4. I personally use my K612 as my reference because it's so linear. Do you know when you expect to get an RCA to RCA cable?

Hopefully you will be able to figure out how much of upgrade it is once you get the static eliminated. No upgrade is quite as big as the first decent full-size headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

I should probably take this to the Z & ZxR thread, maybe meet me there?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-series-z-zx-zxr/2130_30#post_10520917


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> I should probably take this to the Z & ZxR thread, maybe meet me there?


 

 Okay, meet you there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Heads up guys, I'm getting a consistently high amount of resistance from the V-moda Boom Pro cable: A whopping 6 ohms or so. Not sure if the mic channel causes some issues, but I would at least recommend only using the Boom Pro cable for gaming, and not for music listening. Testing some other cables, I get the normal 0.6-0.8ohms of resistance.

Can anyone else test the resistance of the Boom Pro cable?

Just remember, resistance does not make or break the sound, it is still subtle at best, and I have NO problems using the cable for gaming. Just, less resistance is technically better for audio in general, and 6ohm resistance is the highest I've ever seen, which is 10x higher than normal cables.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Heads up guys, I'm getting a consistently high amount of resistance from the V-moda Boom Pro cable: A whopping 6 ohms or so. Not sure if the mic channel causes some issues, but I would at least recommend only using the Boom Pro cable for gaming, and not for music listening. Testing some other cables, I get the normal 0.6-0.8ohms of resistance.
> 
> Can anyone else test the resistance of the Boom Pro cable?
> 
> Just remember, resistance does not make or break the sound, it is still subtle at best, and I have NO problems using the cable for gaming. Just, less resistance is technically better for audio in general, and 6ohm resistance is the highest I've ever seen, which is 10x higher than normal cables.


 
 I thought that's what people were measuring the X1 cable at and swapping to the Boom Pro fixed that issue.  Am I misremembering?  I can say that the stock cable from the X1 sounds a little congested compared to my Boom Pro cable.


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> Welp, my Modi stopped working so I'm returning it.  (Hope they don't charge me shipping to return their broken product, but I'm not expecting much based on my communications with them so far.)
> 
> Looking forward to @Evshrug's impressions of the Bifrost since that's next on my list of DAC's to try.


 
  
 Seems kind of odd to me that you would even be considering the Bifrost when your brand new Modi just broke. Additionally, the jump from $100 to $350+ is quite large. For around $280, you can get a NFB 15.32 when they're back in stock later this month. USB, optical, and coaxial inputs + an amp to boot. You might even be able to get rid of your M-Stage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, they were referring to the normal vmoda cable. Which has conflicting reports to begin with, as some have resistances near as high as the X1 cable.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> Seems kind of odd to me that you would even be considering the Bifrost when your brand new Modi just broke. Additionally, the jump from $100 to $350+ is quite large. For around $280, you can get a NFB 15.32 when they're back in stock later this month. USB, optical, and coaxial inputs + an amp to boot. You might even be able to get rid of your M-Stage.


 
  
 Well, I figure a used Bifrost is less likely to be broken than a brand new version of a brand new product.  Also, the Bifrost gets such good reviews that I was assuming the sound upgrade would be worth the price... but that's probably a bad assumption.  I've been doing a lot of research on the difference between the two and a LOT of people are claiming they couldn't tell the difference between the Bifrost and the Modi in a blind test.
  
 Regardless, I have definitely been looking for alternatives in between the two in price range.  I'm not sure what to think of the Augio-gd stuff; their site is super ghetto and they look to be constructed really cheaply.  However, if they sound good, I guess that's what counts.  I'll have to do some research on that one, thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Audio GD stuff and bad contruction do not mix. They may look aesthetically lacking, but I assure you, their stuff is built like tanks. Audio-GD is tbe only company I woukd buy higher priced amp/dac combos. I have loved the NFB5, SA31, and Compass 2. I can't recommend them enough.


----------



## pwoznic

Ok, I've had a few days to play around with my new wireless A40 setup. I am very impressed! These suckers get pretty loud and they are very comfortable! I will keep them for now, but I will probably get something like 712Pros in the future.
  
 However, I am wondering about alternative microphone options...perhaps something clip-on in case I decide to use any of my other earbuds/headphones with the 5.8 mixamp. I do have a wireless headset. maybe wearing that around my neck? lol
  
 I guess as of right now, the setup is a bit odd:
  
 The mixamp receiver has two cables going into it... the A40s and then the mic cable that then goes back to my controller. It works fine when I use my wireless controller, but sometimes I use a wired controller so that I can use the CronuxMax (to give me mouse/keyboard on the 360).. but the mic does not work when using the CronuxMax.
  
 I know it may seem silly to have more wires in my setup, but my main desire was wireless audio. If I have my console set up near my computer, then wires are not a big deal since everything is so close... but if I'm using my console on my big screen, then I'm like 12ft from the console.


----------



## SaLX

mad lust envy said:


> Heads up guys, I'm getting a consistently high amount of resistance from the V-moda Boom Pro cable: A whopping 6 ohms or so. Not sure if the mic channel causes some issues, but I would at least recommend only using the Boom Pro cable for gaming, and not for music listening. Testing some other cables, I get the normal 0.6-0.8ohms of resistance.


 
 Would the inline volume control not have a resistance of it's own.. maybe test it at max then min? Maybe wrong, but worth a look.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This is true, their stuff is really well built. It looks mostly the same because they use a small variety in cases which leads to lower prices for them as they can order a lot this way for quite a discount. Additionally Kingwa buys the internals cheaper than everyone else. Everyone wins. I prefer an excellent internal and robust external built over fancy cases who themselves can cost hundreds of dollars depending on how exclusive and luxurious.
  
 However I only like AGD's high end stuff, was never impressed with their low- and midtier.


----------



## benbenkr

Well there's a new "old boy" in town. The Aune X1 Pro, for about $200 this is an impeccable DAC/amp combo. It goes up against the M&M stack, but I do find the Aune to be better with its variety of inputs (optical, coax, USB, RCA in) as a plus.
  
 Just got it in the mail today, listened to it a little and I'm already impressed. Stunning stuff.


----------



## AvroArrow

mad lust envy said:


> Heads up guys, I'm getting a consistently high amount of resistance from the V-moda Boom Pro cable: A whopping 6 ohms or so. Not sure if the mic channel causes some issues, but I would at least recommend only using the Boom Pro cable for gaming, and not for music listening. Testing some other cables, I get the normal 0.6-0.8ohms of resistance.
> 
> 
> Can anyone else test the resistance of the Boom Pro cable?




Which part are you measuring?  When I measure the Tip (with the mic & headphone splitter attached for PC use) to Tip I get 3.0 ohms, Ring to Ring is 3.0 ohms, Sleeve to Sleeve is 0.8 ohms on my Boom Pro.

EDIT: DOH! I thought something was off... Then I re-read SaLX's post. I had the inline volume dial set for low volume. I just updated my measurements with the inline volume at max. For comparison, my hacked stock ATH-AD700 cable is 0.4 ohms for T & R, 0.6 ohms for S.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I test both main poles and get 5-6 ohms. All my other cables are like .4-.8ohms.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, bought a year of PS+, got the K612's on, trusty Recon3D is at it again, trail mix munchies and Angry Orchard, here we gooooo!

Just search Twitch for. Evshrug


----------



## Evshrug

Wow, the K612 is REALLY good at surround!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It images amazingly well in surround. More rounded, less oval.


----------



## Change is Good

Don't forget to try em with the Q701 pads!


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## Change is Good

You need to cut your nails dude


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> You need to cut your nails dude


 
  
 What do you mean?
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Beyerdynamic T90 Jubilee - Limited Edition - same peak?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


>




Dafuq is that. I assume thats your k712 cable. If something happened, that is unfortunate. I don't remember seeing any damage to it. Let me know if you need anything because thats starting to make me feel bad. I'm a broke mofo, but since I can't be 100% sure where the damage came from I'll do whatever.


----------



## people

avroarrow said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > Heads up guys, I'm getting a consistently high amount of resistance from the V-moda Boom Pro cable: A whopping 6 ohms or so. Not sure if the mic channel causes some issues, but I would at least recommend only using the Boom Pro cable for gaming, and not for music listening. Testing some other cables, I get the normal 0.6-0.8ohms of resistance.
> ...


 
  
 I have been measuring similarly high resistance values for the V-Moda Boom Pro cable:
  
 Tip ⇔ Tip:  ~6 Ohm *
 Ring ⇔ Ring: ~4.5 Ohm (±0.2)
 Sleeve ⇔ Sleeve: ~1.3 Ohm
  
 Measurements with the in-line volume at maximum*, attaching the V-Moda y-adapter for PC did not lead to to significantly differently readings (± 0.2 max).
  
  
 * I found that "fiddling' with the in-line volume control (turning the wheel all the way down and back up) could lead to inconsistently varying results, but measurements would generally fall in the 6.0 - 6.4 Ohm range.
  
 (I don't have the 'normal' V-Moda cable to compare)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So we can assume that is is still and very high resistance compared to basically all other cables.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Dafuq is that. I assume thats your k712 cable. If something happened, that is unfortunate. I don't remember seeing any damage to it. Let me know if you need anything because thats starting to make me feel bad. I'm a broke mofo, but since I can't be 100% sure where the damage came from I'll do whatever.




I'm just glad I was watching his stream while he noticed it. Stillhart and I were able to lighten his mood a little. 

That definitely wasn't there when I had it. We came up with a couple ways, however, to get this resolved. I'll chip in as well, since its also been in my posession, but hopefully the culprit will fess up.

Let's keep this in our PM, though...


----------



## J1nKZ

Going for ps3>mixamp or o2 amp/dac or both? > akg k712's will this suffice for a good experience with gaming, music and movies?


----------



## Stillhart

j1nkz said:


> Going for ps3>mixamp or o2 amp/dac or both? > akg k712's will this suffice for a good experience with gaming, music and movies?


 
 You need the Mixamp for surround on gaming and movies.  The O2 will work in conjunction with the Mixamp, and is probably a good idea with those headphones.  I don't belive you can use the ODAC with the PS3, so save your money there.
  
 And yes, that looks like a phat setup.


----------



## lttlfld

I've been sticking with PC thus far for my virtual surround setup, but want to make the jump to the xbox one. I've searched quite a but for a solution given that my headphone doesn't have a removable cable and the Xbox one will NOT play chat through the speakers so you can't simply connect a mic into the headset adapter. I'm following these instructions: http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/xbox_one_support/f/4269/t/1686126.aspx and have ordered a DSS and the y-connector, but I still need the headset adapter and a mic. Does anyone have any suggestions or a more elegant solution for the Xbox one?


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> I've been sticking with PC thus far for my virtual surround setup, but want to make the jump to the xbox one. I've searched quite a but for a solution given that my headphone doesn't have a removable cable and the Xbox one will NOT play chat through the speakers so you can't simply connect a mic into the headset adapter. I'm following these instructions: http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_support/xbox_one_support/f/4269/t/1686126.aspx and have ordered a DSS and the y-connector, but I still need the headset adapter and a mic. Does anyone have any suggestions or a more elegant solution for the Xbox one?


 
 That's actually not the worst solution, assuming the DSS1 has the aux input port like the DSS2.  My Recon doesn't so I have to use an even wonkier config.


----------



## lttlfld

stillhart said:


> That's actually not the worst solution, assuming the DSS1 has the aux input port like the DSS2.  My Recon doesn't so I have to use an even wonkier config.



Ordered the DSS for $18 so hopefully if it doesn't have aux in I can adopt an even wonkier setup. How do you use your recon?


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> Ordered the DSS for $18 so hopefully if it doesn't have aux in I can adopt an even wonkier setup. How do you use your recon?


 
 If it magically decides to send chat audio through the controller, the only way to get it working is to add a Y splitter cable backwards (making it a Y combiner cable) to combine the ouput of the Recon with the output of the headphone side of the Y splitter.  Ev's video explains this bit, but I don't recall if he's officially posted it or not.
  

Controller >Y Splitter >Mic In > Microphone
  Y Splitter >Headphone Out >Y combiner >HeadphoneDSS >Headphone Out > Y combiner > 
  
 Hope this helps a bit.


----------



## lttlfld

stillhart said:


> If it magically decides to send chat audio through the controller, the only way to get it working is to add a Y splitter cable backwards (making it a Y combiner cable) to combine the ouput of the Recon with the output of the headphone side of the Y splitter.  Ev's video explains this bit, but I don't recall if he's officially posted it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I understand... So I just need to add one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000UV2AW?pc_redir=1399268143&robot_redir=1 to my list to combine with the DSS?


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> I think I understand... So I just need to add one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000UV2AW?pc_redir=1399268143&robot_redir=1 to my list to combine with the DSS?


 
 I'm a little confused on whether you need that or the opposite (with M->F/F or F->M/M).  Have to ask Evs...


----------



## lttlfld

stillhart said:


> I'm a little confused on whether you need that or the opposite (with M->F/F or F->M/M).  Have to ask Evs...



Well I've got a M->F/F around so I'll try that first. Maybe I should just cancel the DSS and find a DSS2...


----------



## Stillhart

lttlfld said:


> Well I've got a M->F/F around so I'll try that first. Maybe I should just cancel the DSS and find a DSS2...


 
 From looking at the Amazon page, it looks like the DSS has the aux port, so probably not an issue.


----------



## chicolom

I missed Dolby Headphone so I picked up a *Xonar U7.*
  
 Too bad I can't actually get it to DO any legit Dolby Headphone.  Not sure if it even can.  It seems like it's crippled to only doing Pro Logic due to not being able to feed the Dolby software actual discrete multi-channel surround.  I think everything gets bottlenecked down two channels before Dolby sees it, then gets upmixed back to pro logic surround.
  
  
 It's got three outputs, "Headphones, Speaker, and SPDIF". 
  
 1.  The "Headphones" output can only be set to 2 channels.  No "Configure Speakers" options in windows or the Xonar software.  So you just supposed to set it as your default 2-channel audio device and _trust_ that somehow the game is still going to decide to send discrete multi-channel audio to it so Dolby Headphone can work properly?  Can't seem to get it to work - everything sounds like pro-logic.   The only way I could see that working was if Dolby Home Theater v4 somehow got the multi channel signal FIRST (before the Xonar), and then mixed it down with DH and passes it to the Xonar's 2-channel device. 
  
 2.  The "Speakers" output CAN be configured to 5.1 or 7.1, but it splits that output between 5 analog jacks at the back.  If you take a line out from the red/white RCAs, you only hear the front L/R channels of the mix. 
  
 3.  The SPDIF/optical output is either PCM or Dolby Digital.  No "configure speakers" or number of channels options.  The Dolby Digital is at least correctly encoded and without lag, but the PCM option doesn't properly apply Dolby Headphone.
  
  
 How does the Xonar U3 work?  I think you can configure it as multi-channel in windows right?  I assume the game sees it as a multi-channel device and sends it multi-channel audio, then the U3 software runs it through Dolby Headphone (perhaps encoding it to DDL first), then it runs that 2 channel Dolby Headphone signal out both the 3.5mm out and the toslink out (the latter as 2 channel digital PCM but with dolby headphone already mixed in still?)


----------



## lttlfld

stillhart said:


> From looking at the Amazon page, it looks like the DSS has the aux port, so probably not an issue.


 
 It looks like it has an analog in, but not an aux in. I'm not totally sure what the difference is, but the DSS2 has both.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> If it magically decides to send chat audio through the controller, the only way to get it working is to add a Y splitter cable backwards (making it a Y combiner cable) to combine the ouput of the Recon with the output of the headphone side of the Y splitter.  Ev's video explains this bit, but I don't recall if he's officially posted it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, so my double y-split solution DOES work for XBone? I'll have to post the video.



stillhart said:


> From looking at the Amazon page, it looks like the DSS has the aux port, so probably not an issue.



The DSS 2 might have a combined optical/aux-in port like the Recon3D and Mac computers, so I'd rely on pictures rather than a features list to determine if the DSS2 has a separate port for input. I've never owned a DSS2 myself... I'll need to check the DSS again tonight once I'm off work.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Oh, so my double y-split solution DOES work for XBone? I'll have to post the video.





> The DSS 2 might have a combined optical/aux-in port like the Recon3D and Mac computers, so I'd rely on pictures rather than a features list to determine if the DSS2 has a separate port for input. I've never owned a DSS2 myself... I'll need to check the DSS again tonight once I'm off work.


 
 Q1:  I haven't tried it yet, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
  
 Q2:  We're curious about the DSS1 not the DSS2.  Can you tell us if the DSS1 can combine the chat audio like the DSS2?


----------



## lttlfld

Here is a schematic for the DSS: 

When the digital input is transmitting sound, the analog input does not function . The aux input WILL function on the DSS2, which is why they added it.


----------



## lttlfld

Well, found a DSS2 on eBay for $32 so I picked it up as well. Going to see if I can get both to work with Xbox1. Might just station one of them at my PC and sell my sound card... Will update when everything comes in.


----------



## grumpy1471

Hey @Stillhart , 
  
 Got the Omni today and it's a pretty awesome device! It's smaller than I expected (same went for the Vali) and works well. A TON less hiss than the Mixamp.
  
 What settings are you using for your Omni in the SBX Surround slider? Not sure what % to set it to.


----------



## Evshrug

Grumpy,
Great to hear it!
Mine's been giving me troubles lately (popping sound with game audio and mic), but before that (hmm, before I loaned it to a co-worker, in fact...) it sounded great for me too. I'm gonna have to test it in all my USB ports.
I recommend starting out testing at 67%, get used to that first but then experiment with other settings. I personally like mine best at 100%, a little bass boost at a very low frequency, and a little bit of the dialogue plus booster. Told you it was a pretty good DAC!

How do you like the Vali?


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Hey @Stillhart ,
> 
> Got the Omni today and it's a pretty awesome device! It's smaller than I expected (same went for the Vali) and works well. A TON less hiss than the Mixamp.
> 
> What settings are you using for your Omni in the SBX Surround slider? Not sure what % to set it to.


 

 Honestly, I don't like to run all the effects and stuff on.  I just turn on surround when it's time to game and leave it at that.  I have it at 100% right now.  I think I like it closer to 66% with the Q701's though, as they've already got a massive soundstage.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> Grumpy,
> Great to hear it!
> Mine's been giving me troubles lately (popping sound with game audio and mic), but before that (hmm, before I loaned it to a co-worker, in fact...) it sounded great for me too. I'm gonna have to test it in all my USB ports.
> I recommend starting out testing at 67%, get used to that first but then experiment with other settings. I personally like mine best at 100%, a little bass boost at a very low frequency, and a little bit of the dialogue plus booster. Told you it was a pretty good DAC!
> ...


 
 This may seem obvious to the point in which you might think I'm insulting your intelligence (believe me, I'm not 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





), but... have you tried updating the firmware of the Omni? I had a bit of popping off the bat but it was fixed once I downloaded the latest firmware. 
  
 I tried the settings that you mentioned. I put it to 100% surround, 10% Dialog Plus and increased the low frequencies by 1db and I was quite happy with that. I may try messing around with the settings a bit to find the settings that sound best to my ears though.
  
 As for the Vali, it was well worth the money (as well as the abysmal shipping cost). I can hear a bit of hiss with it but it's barely enough to be able to hear it over my computer fans. It definitely tamed the highs and tightened up the bass and I enjoy the K712s a lot more now. Plus, I can get uncomfortably high volumes out of the cans. I have the Vali at around 1/3 of the max volume. 
  
 I'm really pleased with the Omni and Vali. You are definitely right about the Omni being a good DAC. 
  
  


stillhart said:


> Honestly, I don't like to run all the effects and stuff on.  I just turn on surround when it's time to game and leave it at that.  I have it at 100% right now.  I think I like it closer to 66% with the Q701's though, as they've already got a massive soundstage.


 
 I find that the crystalizer, recon mode and bass slider are quite useless. The Dialog Plus helps a bit when it's at a low %. I'll try out a few surround settings in between  ~60% and 100% to see what I like best.


----------



## Evshrug

I'm not offended, thanks for the suggestion!
I already uninstalled and reinstalled the driver software already. I don't think consumers can update the firmware (firmware is the code inside the Omni that controls hardware like turning the volume dial and recognizing IR input.

Also, I'm gonna stream some PS4, this month's PS+ free game is a cool looking indie that reminds me of a 2D Psychonauts.


----------



## grumpy1471

Ah okay. Could've sworn that I was getting some popping until I updated the firmware. You can, in fact, update the firmware though. If you go to the drivers page for the Omni, there'll be a Firmware link beside View. 
  
 Edit: There is one option, it's ~700KB and is apparently an "updated" firmware from back in November of 2013. May or may not help. It says it improves performance though.


----------



## chicolom

chicolom said:


> I missed Dolby Headphone so I picked up a *Xonar U7.*
> 
> Too bad I can't actually get it to DO any legit Dolby Headphone.  Not sure if it even can.


 
  
  

  
 An update on the Xonar U7 in case anyone was wondering if it's legit...
  
 I've been playing around with it for a few hours, and...unfortunately it seems to be a fail as far as headphone-use goes.  It's gimped to only taking 2 channels from a game and upmixing it (pro-logic).  No discrete channels = bad positioning.  
  
  
 Yes, it comes with Dolby Home theater v4 which has Dolby Headphone inside via the "Surround Virtualizer: Headphone" but you can't get it to work properly with the U7.  The U7 is unable to feed it 5.1 or 7.1 channel source AND have it come out the other side as 2 channel Dolby Headphone signal (how the U3 works).  The only way to get the U7 to handle more than 2 channels is to set the Xonar to "Speakers" in which case it will split the source signal into separate analog channels out the back of the U7.  So your 5.1 game audio will be split between the 5 different analog ports on the back, not a downmixed Dolby Headphone stereo signal.  If you only want to output via stereo using the two line-out RCA ports on the back, you have to set the U7 to only 2 channels - which bottlenecks all your sources/games down to 2 channels and kills your ability to feed Dolby Home Theater v4 (and thus Dolby Headphone) properly.  Pro logic. 
  
 The U7's second output mode, "Headphones", is strictly two channel in -> two channel out.  You can't set it to anything other than 2 channel.  It's basically just a stereo DAC, and no amount of virtualization software is going to fix the fact that your only getting two channels from all your sources when in "Headphones" mode.  The Xonar U7 has it's own virtual surround when in the "Headphones" mode, called "Xear," but it's not that good.  Turning it on also disables Dolby Home Theater v4 and vice a versa. 
  
 The U7's third and final output option is SPDIF/Optical.  This mode does either  2 channel PCM or Dolby Digital Live.  NO 8 channel input from source down to 2 channel DH output (like the U3).
  
  
  
 The U7 only seems useful for people wanting to drive multiple analog speakers from their PC.  It's not good for gamers with headphones, as the only headphone virtualization you'll be getting will all be derived from 2 channel sources.
  
 It's a shame, because the hardware looks and feels quiet nice.  It seems well built, everything's gold plated, and it has a cool digital volume knob on top that also acts as a click button to switch between outputs.  The Dolby Home Theater v4 software also looks nice and clean (a bit too simplified and dumbed down though IMO).  Throwing Dolby Home Theater v4 together with the U7 was a nice thought, but it just doesn't work when you can only set your audio devices to 2 channels when trying to use any heapdhone surround.  I figured Asus was smart enough to have thought that through, but I guess I was wrong.
  
 I guess I'll be returning the U7.  I didn't pay 90 bucks for a glorified Pro Logic box.  Chicolom don't roll like that, you dig?
  
  
  
  

  
  
 I also picked up a Xonar U3 from microcenter, and that on the otherhand works _great_.  Very easy to set up and it's doing Dolby Headphone properly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Feed tht U3 to your optical dac and Mstage for some wonder.


----------



## chicolom

Yeah, the U3 works fine.  It's a keeper.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I think I might use that U7 money and get a slightly nicer optical DAC though.
  
 The D3 is aight, but I wouldn't mind replacing it.  I notice a wee bit of hiss from it.  Also, I was doing some comparing between it and the DSS (both receiving Dolby Headphone signals) and I swear the lowly DSS had a slightly larger sounding soundsdtage. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Maybe an optical Modi or something...Any other <$100 optical DACs I'm forgetting?  I imagine the Modi is slightly better than the E17...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I havent used my D03k since I've had my E17, but I didn't notice any hiss when I used it.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> I also picked up a Xonar U3 from microcenter, and that on the otherhand works _great_.  Very easy to set up and it's doing Dolby Headphone properly.


 
  
 You went to Microcenter and didn't bother to stop by and say "Hi." So cruel. You even had to drive by my neighborhood assuming you took 27 down.
  
 Shame about the U7, I was interested in what it could do. Looks like I may eventually get a U3 for the new computer if I don't want to put in a dedicated sound card with optical out and DH. I've had the U3 before, twice actually, and liked it both times. But it doesn't work on OS X.


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> Yeah, the U3 works fine.  It's a keeper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I've been looking for a cheap optical DAC that isn't an E17 for a while.  The Opti-modi was the perfect solution in theory.  In practice, I didn't notice much difference over my SB Omni.  I'm curious what you think, if you get it.  I'm also curious if you find more options...


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> You went to Microcenter and didn't bother to stop by and say "Hi." So cruel. You even had to drive by my neighborhood assuming you took 27 down.
> 
> Shame about the U7, I was interested in what it could do. Looks like I may eventually get a U3 for the new computer if I don't want to put in a dedicated sound card with optical out and DH. I've had the U3 before, twice actually, and liked it both times. But it doesn't work on OS X.


 
  
 Whoops.
  
 Yeah, I take 27 down.  I thought you lived farther south, closer to actual Cincy?
  
 Yeah, the U7 looked nice, but it's inferior to the U3 in terms of headphone-surround capabilites.  Dat 2 channel bottleneck.  Too bad.
  
  


stillhart said:


> I've been looking for a cheap optical DAC that isn't an E17 for a while.  The Opti-modi was the perfect solution in theory.  In practice, I didn't notice much difference over my SB Omni.  I'm curious what you think, if you get it.  I'm also curious if you find more options...


 
  
 Good to know.
  
 I'll have to think about whether I'll get one...I'm not loving that Schiity 15% restocking fee... :\


----------



## Evshrug

Omni! It's ALIIIIIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems firmware solved all my USB problems, will update if Optical issue is resolved too!

Honk Honk!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's why you buy everything on Amazon or Best Buy, Chico!


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> Omni! It's ALIIIIIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Seems firmware solved all my USB problems, will update if Optical issue is resolved too!
> 
> Honk Honk!




Where's my thanks? 

Glad to see that the firmware helped!


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Whoops.
> 
> Yeah, I take 27 down.  I thought you lived farther south, closer to actual Cincy?
> 
> Yeah, the U7 looked nice, but it's inferior to the U3 in terms of headphone-surround capabilites.  Dat 2 channel bottleneck.  Too bad.


 
  
 Lived in Springdale till April, now I'm just outside of the Northgate area. 
  
 It's surprising that they'd limit the headphone output on the U7. Oh well. I don't have any optical DACs at the moment and it'll be a few months before I do, otherwise I'd lend one to you for a try. I'm pretty much exclusively USB at this point.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> That's why you buy everything on Amazon or Best Buy, Chico!


 
  
 Good point. 
  
 You would know all about returning things to Amazon, wouldn't you.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  
  


axelcloris said:


> Lived in Springdale till April, now I'm just outside of the Northgate area.


 
  
 Oh nice.  Yeah, I go by Northgate/Colerain all the time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Good point.
> 
> You would know all about returning things to Amazon, wouldn't you.  :wink_face: :wink_face: :wink_face:




LOW BLOW MAN, LOW BLOW. :'(

EVS, MUCH ACCURACY, VERY AMAZE


----------



## Change is Good

Okay, tired of waiting for my K612... sooo... I have a surprise on the way (well, not really a surprise if you know me and my interests).
  
 Too bad Amazon is out of stock on BoomPros...


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Okay, tired of waiting for my K612... sooo... I have a surprise on the way (well, not really a surprise if you know me and my interests).
> 
> Too bad Amazon is out of stock on BoomPros...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Didn't you own these already? You should be saving up for some planar goodness!

Change, did you notice that Amazon is now adding sales tax in Florida? There goes my incentive to shop there vs just going to Best Buy...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Didn't you own these already? You should be saving up for some planar goodness!
> 
> Change, did you notice that Amazon is now adding sales tax in Florida? There goes my incentive to shop there vs just going to Best Buy...


 
  
 I used to own the HP*100*, which was an AMAZING closed headphone when I had it. These are the open counterparts, the HP*200*, which aren't sold in the US... and at $50 off, too. I've had my eyes on these for over a year... had to jump on em... 
  
 Maybe I'll sell all my headphones one day and fund a TH900! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 And yea, but only on some items. I'm guessing their Florida warehouse is limited, at the moment. This order didn't have sales tax on it...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cool, let me know how it stacks up to the 612.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, and you're buying a 3rd party seller product which is probably why you didn't get taxed.

I couldve sworn I edited. Ugh stupid phone.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Cool, let me know how it stacks up to the 612.


 
  
 Sure will, but it will all depend on how they sound is with my 1540 pads on em. I won't be keeping them if I have to use the stock pleathers. I'm expecting the changes, however, to be minimal (alcantaras give a similar sonic effect as cheap pleather).
  
 I'll be keeping both, and using these as my primary gaming cans since their way more portable than the K612...


mad lust envy said:


> Oh, and you're buying a 3rd party seller product which is probably why you didn't get taxed.
> 
> I couldve sworn I edited. Ugh stupid phone.


 
  
 Ah, that's probably why...


----------



## rc10mike

The Beyerdynamic MMX300 has a ton more bass than the PC360, but not the ear drum bashing bass of the DT990. I actually use my MMX300s for music too and to me they sound great. They seem to do everything just right. 

Also, they are a closed headphone but really dont sound a whole lot different than any open headphone Ive tried for gaming or music.

Plus, it has the best mic Ive ever see/heard on a headset.


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.head-fi.org/t/711178/schiit-wed-like-to-see
  
 Hey Chico, how about approaching Schiit for virtual surround device?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I approached them with an amp/dac all in one. It's about time they curb their distaste for them and prove themselves wrong by making one that they would be proud of.


----------



## Xanatos

Mad Lust Envy,
  
 Could you review the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro?


----------



## DreMag

xanatos said:


> Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> Could you review the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro?


 

 I don't even own it but I can write it for you... "Fun and Bassy, but not very competitive due to cramped soundstage" amirite?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't expect a review for anything in awhile. Call it a hiatus. I may eventually finish my Ultrasone HFI-15G, but not really in the mood to write or review any headphone for a good while.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


>


 
  
 My costume is the best!


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> My costume is the best!


 
  
 I dunno, I look pretty bad-ass in red. See how it accents my black? Damn I'm svelte.


----------



## Evshrug

Was it change that originally posted that?


----------



## Change is Good

I want my own Pokemon! 

Stillhart posted it, I just added the names and stuff...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


>


 
 I've mentioned this before, I'm there too. See the tree in the background?
  
 Ninja!
  
 I'm off to sunny Amsterdam tomorrow  Digeridoos, palm trees, pizza, sumo wrestling and bagpipes. Yep Amsterdam, the windy city that never sleeps. Can hardly wait!
  
 Evshrug, I see you managed to evade the munchkins I dispatched.. The old escape by riding a rainbow to the land of the gods trick eh? Well played sir, well played. Their methods can be quite brutal.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/711178/schiit-wed-like-to-see
> 
> Hey Chico, how about approaching Schiit for virtual surround device?


 
  
 Hmm.  Perhaps....
  
 I imagine Schiit would just want a device that output optical or line out, that way they could sell you their optical DACs and amplifiers to pair with it.  Still, that would be fine with me.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Hmm.  Perhaps....
> 
> I imagine Schiit would just want a device that output optical or line out, that way they could sell you their optical DACs and amplifiers to pair with it.  Still, that would be fine with me.


 
  
 Hmm, console > Schiit DSP > OptiModi > Magni/Vali > headphone seems a bit unwieldy. I'm sure it can easily be done, and I'm not one to take the simple option over the one with better sound, but I don't know. I thought the idea of the new device was to take on the Mixamp and its rivals.


----------



## HoneyNutz

Ok so If its between AKG Q 701 and the AKG k612 which would you choose?  I am trying to pick my new gaming headphones.   Tried to search through this thread but essentially gave up as AKG k612 comes up everywhere since its in the title.  Adding ATH-700x and 900x for good measure
  
 SO... Q701 vs K612 vs ATH-ad700x vs ATH-ad900x
  
 I will not be using an amp, I will primarily be plugging these into my computer for gaming, I have a moderately larger head.  I used to have ATH A500s which i loved which is why I am including the ATHs in here.  
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Stillhart

honeynutz said:


> Ok so If its between AKG Q 701 and the AKG k612 which would you choose?  I am trying to pick my new gaming headphones.   Tried to search through this thread but essentially gave up as AKG k612 comes up everywhere since its in the title.  Adding ATH-700x and 900x for good measure
> 
> SO... Q701 vs K612 vs ATH-ad700x vs ATH-ad900x
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy with any of those.  They're all great for gaming.  What sound card are you using?  If you're not amping, you may want to avoid the AKG's.


----------



## conquerator2

honeynutz said:


> Ok so If its between AKG Q 701 and the AKG k612 which would you choose?  I am trying to pick my new gaming headphones.   Tried to search through this thread but essentially gave up as AKG k612 comes up everywhere since its in the title.  Adding ATH-700x and 900x for good measure
> 
> SO... Q701 vs K612 vs ATH-ad700x vs ATH-ad900x
> 
> ...


 
 If your computer means an onboard integrated sound card, then none of these.
 The X1 or MA900 would be a much better choice in that case.


----------



## Evshrug

Any headphone (almost) over $100 benefits from an amp to sound more pleasing and dynamic, but most sound better than average headphones without recommended amping supply. Think videogames... A new AAA videogame might be awesome, but low settings aren't as awesome as maxing out the quality.

That said, the Q701 and K612 are very close. Your sound preference ultimately should be the final factor, but in the K612's favor it has a more comfortable headband and has better dampening against noisy computer parts.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Any headphone (almost) over $100 benefits from an amp to sound more pleasing and dynamic, but most sound better than average headphones without recommended amping supply. Think videogames... A new AAA videogame might be awesome, but low settings aren't as awesome as maxing out the quality.
> 
> That said, the Q701 and K612 are very close. Your sound preference ultimately should be the final factor, but in the K612's favor it has a more comfortable headband and has better dampening against noisy computer parts.


 

 The K612 are a lot less..what do they sound like with the astro mixamp, do you think it has enough power for them?


----------



## Change is Good

martin vegas said:


> The K612 are a lot less..what do they sound like with the astro mixamp, do you think it has enough power for them?


 
  
 Martin, you should know better, lol. MLE covered this in his review...


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Martin, you should know better, lol. MLE covered this in his review...


 
 Just asking Evshrugs thoughts on the K612..i can tell he likes them!


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> I thought the idea of the new device was to take on the Mixamp and its rivals.


 
  
 It is.
  
 The mixamp and DSS both have hissy DAC sections.  At the very least this proposed new device would need a decent "audiophile" grade DAC.  Digital output would add more flexibility for those who want to use their own DAC though.


----------



## grumpy1471

chicolom said:


> It is.
> 
> The mixamp and DSS both have hissy DAC sections.  At the very least this proposed new device would need a decent "audiophile" grade DAC.  Digital output would add more flexibility for those who want to use their own DAC though.




That's why I love the Omni so far. Digital out and no audible hiss. The Mixamp 2013's hiss is very noticeable but not bad when I'm only gaming with it. I definitely prefer the Omni for everything else though.


----------



## chicolom

It's too bad the Omni doesn't have an optical input.


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> It's too bad the Omni doesn't have an optical input.


 
  
 You mean for using with a console like the Recon3D?  Yeah, it would be nice.  I've used both on my computer and the Omni sounds noticeably better than the Recon.  Maybe they'll go back to that when the next gen comes out (yeah right).
  
 I'm still naively holding out hope that the PS4 and Xbone will introduce built-in virtual surround through the controllers so we can stop worrying about Mixamps and such...


----------



## grumpy1471

I like having one for PC (Omni) and one for console (Mixamp). On PC, I don't chat as much so the built in mic on the Omni should be okay in a pinch and it's a lot better for music. For the Mixamp, it's nice to have the chat and volume mixer as I chat more on console. Plus, it saves a ton of cable switching when I decide to switch from PC to console and back. The Mixamp isn't that great on PC but works great on console. The Omni does everything great on PC but can't be used on console. Best of both worlds with the two!


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Just asking Evshrugs thoughts on the K612..i can tell he likes them!



So far, yes I do like them, very much. I haven't quantified them completely, except that they are very good, and when you factor in price then they are amazing! They work startlingly well with virtual surround FPS gaming, but I want to hear them with more of my music and maybe a movie...

I don't have the wired Mixamp, but on the Mixamp 5.8 the K612 dampens the hiss slightly more so it's slightly quieter than my Q's, but it's still not as powerful or clean as a discrete amp. Like gaming at 1080p resolution, but low graphics settings. The DSS has a bit less hiss, but still... amping improves soundstage, separation, and authority to the bottom end. You might be happy enough just for gaming, but an amp just makes things nicer.



grumpy1471 said:


> That's why I love the Omni so far. Digital out and no audible hiss. The Mixamp 2013's hiss is very noticeable but not bad when I'm only gaming with it. I definitely prefer the Omni for everything else though.



A firmware update got rid of popping issues I was having, but I still haven't gotten my optical out working.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> A firmware update got rid of popping issues I was having, but I still haven't gotten my optical out working.




Have you tried setting the Optical Out as your default sound device in the Windows sound settings? There are different options for if you are just using the analog and headphone jacks or if you are bypassing the Omni and using a DAC.


----------



## Evshrug

Yes, but not since I updated the Omni firmware. When I did that, I got stereo sound (unprocessed with surround) and bursts of static once a minute.


----------



## HoneyNutz

stillhart said:


> I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy with any of those.  They're all great for gaming.  What sound card are you using?  If you're not amping, you may want to avoid the AKG's.


 
 I am using the integrated sound-card on the New Razer Blade 14; and I am weary about procuring an amp mainly because I don't want to be dealing with an extra component for a laptop.  I understand the benefits of the amp - but assuming I do not have one -- I am trying to figure out what would be best for a computer gamer.  I have heard decent things about the Razer Kraken Pros and for 80 bucks they are a steal (I swear I am not a fanboy)...however I love the style of the q701s and reading the reviews it seems like a simple earcup switch with the 712s results in a much better investment than the 612s ~ but at the same time I am hearing no amp no AKG -- is this really true?


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> So far, yes I do like them, very much. I haven't quantified them completely, except that they are very good, and when you factor in price then they are amazing! They work startlingly well with virtual surround FPS gaming, but I want to hear them with more of my music and maybe a movie...
> 
> I don't have the wired Mixamp, but on the Mixamp 5.8 the K612 dampens the hiss slightly more so it's slightly quieter than my Q's, but it's still not as powerful or clean as a discrete amp. Like gaming at 1080p resolution, but low graphics settings. The DSS has a bit less hiss, but still... amping improves soundstage, separation, and authority to the bottom end. You might be happy enough just for gaming, but an amp just makes things nicer.
> A firmware update got rid of popping issues I was having, but I still haven't gotten my optical out working.


 

 The most standout things I personally noticed about them is their naturalness and transparency. From what I can tell they seem to be very close with my K712 in terms of sonic performance. But I am leaving the K612 alone for about a month or so, so that I can get acclimated with my K712 and put some heavy hours into the K712. Then I'll start listening to both again and decide which I actually prefer.


----------



## conquerator2

honeynutz said:


> I am using the integrated sound-card on the New Razer Blade 14; and I am weary about procuring an amp mainly because I don't want to be dealing with an extra component for a laptop.  I understand the benefits of the amp - but assuming I do not have one -- I am trying to figure out what would be best for a computer gamer.  I have heard decent things about the Razer Kraken Pros and for 80 bucks they are a steal (I swear I am not a fanboy)...however I love the style of the q701s and reading the reviews it seems like a simple earcup switch with the 712s results in a much better investment than the 612s ~ but at the same time I am hearing no amp no AKG -- is this really true?


 
 Well, with headphone audio it usually goes like this - integrated soundcard <<< dedicated soundcard <<< dedicated HP system. YMMV obviously. Some headphones will benefit more from dedicated system, some less...
 But an integrated soundcard is the single worst way you can plug your headphones in...
 Unfortunately AKG is certainly a headphone I wouldn't wanna plug directly into an integrated soundcard that is not really made for headphones...
 Why not get the Sony MA900 or even the Philips Fidelio X1 [pretty sure there are more out there!]? Those are both great headphones with similar price tags that'd work much better out of said device... a lot better than the Krakens.
 I'd recommend getting the Asus Xonar U3 for these, it's just a USB dongle but has everything you need and powers most sensitive dynamic headphones well. AKGs really need at least a basic dedicated soundcard or portable/desktop amplifier, or at least a reasonably good DAP.


----------



## grumpy1471

evshrug said:


> Yes, but not since I updated the Omni firmware. When I did that, I got stereo sound (unprocessed with surround) and bursts of static once a minute.


 
 Okay... I may be able to help a bit. Here are a few things to check (chances are you already have them all set up properly though):
  
 -Optical from Omni is set as default audio device (you confirmed that it was already)
  
 -In "properties" when you right click on the Optical Out on Omni in the Windows sound panel, make sure Dolby Digital is checked and that 96 kHz is checked, make sure the default format is set to Dolby Digital Live in the "Advanced" tab
  
 -Make sure that Dolby Digital live is ticked in the "Cinematic" tab of the Omni control panel
  
 -Try checking the box that says "Allow audio to also be heard from S/PDIF out". Not sure if that would work or not so try it with it on and off
  
 Again, just a few things to double check. Not quite sure what would be the root of the problem though. I haven't used the Optical Out port on my Omni yet.
  
  


honeynutz said:


> I am using the integrated sound-card on the New Razer Blade 14; and I am weary about procuring an amp mainly because I don't want to be dealing with an extra component for a laptop.  I understand the benefits of the amp - but assuming I do not have one -- I am trying to figure out what would be best for a computer gamer.  I have heard decent things about the Razer Kraken Pros and for 80 bucks they are a steal (I swear I am not a fanboy)...however I love the style of the q701s and reading the reviews it seems like a simple earcup switch with the 712s results in a much better investment than the 612s ~ but at the same time I am hearing no amp no AKG -- is this really true?


 
 One thing to note is that Razer headphones and headsets tend to have over bloated bass and it really drowns out the mids and highs. I tried out a pair of Krakens once and they didn't impress me one bit. As for the K712, you might not want to buy those if you are just running them off a laptop. I had to max out my desktop motherboard volume and they still weren't as loud as I would normally listen to headphones at. Also, with the K712 unamped, I noticed that there was quite a lot of sibilance, the highs were harsh and the bass seemed a little less controlled. When I got my Schiit Vali, all these issues disappeared. I have to agree with conquerator and recommend something like the X1 that can be run decently well without an amp.


----------



## HoneyNutz

> One thing to note is that Razer headphones and headsets tend to have over bloated bass and it really drowns out the mids and highs. I tried out a pair of Krakens once and they didn't impress me one bit. As for the K712, you might not want to buy those if you are just running them off a laptop. I had to max out my desktop motherboard volume and they still weren't as loud as I would normally listen to headphones at. Also, with the K712 unamped, I noticed that there was quite a lot of sibilance, the highs were harsh and the bass seemed a little less controlled. When I got my Schiit Vali, all these issues disappeared. I have to agree with conquerator and recommend something like the X1 that can be run decently well without an amp.


 
  
  
 Thank you I will look into the X1s


----------



## grumpy1471

honeynutz said:


> Thank you I will look into the X1s




Another good thing about the X1 is that, since you will want to get a different cable than the one included, you can get the V-Moda Boom Pro which will work well in terms of gaming and general convenience. You won't have to use a clip on mic or mod mic with the X1.


----------



## Stillhart

honeynutz said:


> Thank you I will look into the X1s



X1 will get loud enough with no amp, but it won't sound its best. I'd suggest starting with the x1 and then maybe adding something like an audioquest dragonfly later.

BTW, I put mine back up on the classifieds with a price drop. It's boxed up in my car ready to ship today.


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## Evshrug

That dragonfly DAC/amp is a great solution for laptops. It doesn't process headphone surround, but it sounds better than a Mixamp and they lowered prices.


Grumpy,
I'll try that, but my DAC is a normal DAC... It can't process DDL. It is possible that the Omni will process SBX and output stereo LPCM or PCM, but I doubt it because you are supposed to enable that encoding so that an AV receiver can feed 5 or 7 discrete speakers. Maybe something in the middle will work... Windows set for DDL, the Omni control panel set to no encoding to force it to use SBX to process it?


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


>



Those earcups seem to have more than a passing resemblance to AKGs...


----------



## AxelCloris

I didn't realize the HP200 came with non-pleather pads from the images I saw online. Now I'm actually slightly interested in this headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

It does come with pleathers, actually. I just replaced them with my 1540 alcantara pads


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> It does come with pleathers, actually. I just replaced them with my 1540 alcantara pads


 
  
 Ooooooh, that makes sense. Wonder how it changes the sound vs stock, and I'm curious if Beyer pads would fit it.


----------



## Change is Good

I didn't notice much of a difference when switching back n forth, except a bit of refinement coming from the alcantaras. Haven't had much time to be completely sure, though.

The alcantaras are unique softs pads, as they give a similar sound effect to pleathers... but with more air to breathe.

Quick impression of the HP200 is that it reminds me A LOT of the 1840, without the bass distortion. I've read that these sound very similar to the HD600s, and it makes sense as I've read those are similar to the 1840.

Clearly a winner, in my book, but I wouldn't recommend regular velours on em. These are already slightly bright, so regular velours might make them fatiguing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those 1540 Alcantaras are my fave pads of any headphone ever.


----------



## Change is Good

I really need to wait until I get my K612 back to really give some good impressions on these.
  
 So far, I'm sticking with my initial post about these sounding _very_ similar to the SRH1840. The detail and imaging I'm getting with these is AMAZING. It's similarly bass light like the SRH1840, but better textured and there is absoulutely no low frequency distortion (like the SRH1840 is known for).
  
 I think we have a new sound whoring go-to headphone in the $200 range. Still not absolutely positive a BoomPro will fit, however...
  

  
  
  
 Just amazing to look at, too!


----------



## GodBless

after reading ur great review and comparison. I want to buy slyr headset
 but unfortunately its not available in my country
 I play in LAN cafe so I need a headset with good isolation
 currently Im eyeing plantronics 780
 anyone have tried this? or maybe zowie hammer?
  
 Im also curious about GR07 BE and yamaha eph100 for FPS gaming.. since in my LAN cafe give a bad headset
 and I want to use the mic that attach to that bad headset.. (I dont want to that with headphones since it will takes attention)
  
 and this is the list of (maybe) all kind of headset available in my country
 http://www.rumahgamer.com/20c-gaming-audio?limit=100&page=1
 which one would u reccomend it.. < 125$ (Rp 1,500,000 )
 also AKG GHS-1 is in my budget


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> That dragonfly DAC/amp is a great solution for laptops. It doesn't process headphone surround, but it sounds better than a Mixamp and they lowered prices.
> 
> 
> Grumpy,
> I'll try that, but my DAC is a normal DAC... It can't process DDL. It is possible that the Omni will process SBX and output stereo LPCM or PCM, but I doubt it because you are supposed to enable that encoding so that an AV receiver can feed 5 or 7 discrete speakers. Maybe something in the middle will work... Windows set for DDL, the Omni control panel set to no encoding to force it to use SBX to process it?


 

 Dragonflys garbage mate, If you are going to get one get the hrt microstreamer!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Dragonflys garbage mate, If you are going to get one get the hrt microstreamer!


 

 "Garbage"?  There are a lot of reviews on head-fi that say otherwise.  People were raving about it when it was $250.  Now it's $99 for the same unit or $150 for an even better version.  The Microstreamer is $200, and I'm sure it's decent... but I can't imagine it's so good that it makes the AQDF look like garbage.  Especially at twice the price.


----------



## Stillhart

godbless said:


> after reading ur great review and comparison. I want to buy slyr headset
> but unfortunately its not available in my country
> I play in LAN cafe so I need a headset with good isolation
> currently Im eyeing plantronics 780
> ...


 
  
 If you can afford it, the Sennheiser PC360 is probably the best one on that list.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Dragonflys garbage mate, If you are going to get one get the hrt microstreamer!


 
  
 I have to disagree with this. I currently have the Dragonfly V1 and it's an enjoyable little piece of kit. Not blow me away nice, but it's better than onboard sound out of many computers.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> "Garbage"?  There are a lot of reviews on head-fi that say otherwise.  People were raving about it when it was $250.  Now it's $99 for the same unit or $150 for an even better version.  The Microstreamer is $200, and I'm sure it's decent... but I can't imagine it's so good that it makes the AQDF look like garbage.  Especially at twice the price.


 

 I have had one mate sorry but they are not worth keeping..if you want a cheaper one get the dacmagic xs!


----------



## NickLondon

Surely headphone surround is critical - what's the point of the Dragonfly if it can't do it...?


----------



## Evshrug

Just updating, I got SBX surround working with Optical out. Firmware updates and settings fiddling were required. Also found this interesting info tidbit:
Gigabyte has their upcoming Z97x G1 board which uses the same Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC on the SBZ/Zx/Omni and a TI BurrBrown OPA2134 as an op-amp.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Just updating, I got SBX surround working with Optical out. Firmware updates and settings fiddling were required. Also found this interesting info tidbit:
> Gigabyte has their upcoming Z97x G1 board which uses the same Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC on the SBZ/Zx/Omni and a TI BurrBrown OPA2134 as an op-amp.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on the new line of motherboards and what they'll bring to the table. Now would not be the best time to buy most computer parts, wait a little bit and see what new comes around.


----------



## NamelessPFG

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on the new line of motherboards and what they'll bring to the table. Now would not be the best time to buy most computer parts, wait a little bit and see what new comes around.



I agree on waiting a bit since it's the eve of the Intel Z97 chipset launch, but I'm not expecting dramatic improvements in sound quality.

You want to be guaranteed good sound? Get a sound card, that's the only way to be sure. (Unless you're going mini-ITX, then you won't have the room with a graphics card installed.)

Speaking of motherboards, I should do something about that spare Maximus VI Hero board I bought in case something went seriously wrong with my first one. I don't have the funds to build a complete new system around it right now, but no one would want a last-gen Z87 board now.


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> I agree on waiting a bit since it's the eve of the Intel Z97 chipset launch, but I'm not expecting dramatic improvements in sound quality.
> 
> You want to be guaranteed good sound? Get a sound card, that's the only way to be sure. (Unless you're going mini-ITX, then you won't have the room with a graphics card installed.)
> 
> Speaking of motherboards, I should do something about that spare Maximus VI Hero board I bought in case something went seriously wrong with my first one. I don't have the funds to build a complete new system around it right now, but no one would want a last-gen Z87 board now.


 
  
 For the right price you can sell pretty much any motherboard. I doubt you can expect to get back what you paid unless you got it at a steal. But I've seen people buy motherboards just because they were cheap, no other reason.


----------



## benbenkr

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, I'm keeping an eye on the new line of motherboards and what they'll bring to the table. Now would not be the best time to buy most computer parts, wait a little bit and see what new comes around.


 
  
 The only ones worth are from Gigabyte, in terms of audio that is (well that and Gigabyte's reliability since P67 has been exceptional). Though only the Gigabyte Z97x G1 WiFi BK, G1 and G1. Sniper uses the CS4398 DAC from Cirrus Logic. All the other boards are still using Realtek's ALC1150, but they do come with SBX X-Fi MB3/SBX Cinema. All of which has SBX Surround that I can confirm to be working as it should, except with different settings.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I have to disagree with this. I currently have the Dragonfly V1 and it's an enjoyable little piece of kit. Not blow me away nice, but it's better than onboard sound out of many computers.


 
  
 Have you heard any of the competition like the Audioengine D3 or the Microstreamer to compare?
  


nicklondon said:


> Surely headphone surround is critical - what's the point of the Dragonfly if it can't do it...?


 
  
 For me, it'd be for work where I won't be gaming.  For the other guy to whom I suggested it, I'm pretty sure he said he would be using it mostly for music (I'd have to scroll back and check).
  


evshrug said:


> Just updating, I got SBX surround working with Optical out. Firmware updates and settings fiddling were required. Also found this interesting info tidbit:
> Gigabyte has their upcoming Z97x G1 board which uses the same Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC on the SBZ/Zx/Omni and a TI BurrBrown OPA2134 as an op-amp.


 
  
 Good news on both counts.  Tho I am scared to see how much that thing might cost.  Gigabyte likes to pack their MB's with all kinds of ports and goodies that many folks won't use.  I don't see the point in a $300 MB when you can get a $100 MB and a $75 sound card to do the same thing...
  


namelesspfg said:


> I agree on waiting a bit since it's the eve of the Intel Z97 chipset launch, but I'm not expecting dramatic improvements in sound quality.
> 
> You want to be guaranteed good sound? Get a sound card, that's the only way to be sure. *(Unless you're going mini-ITX, then you won't have the room with a graphics card installed.)*
> 
> Speaking of motherboards, I should do something about that spare Maximus VI Hero board I bought in case something went seriously wrong with my first one. I don't have the funds to build a complete new system around it right now, but no one would want a last-gen Z87 board now.


 
  
 That's what the Omni is for!  :-D


----------



## Zombie_X

axelcloris said:


> I have to disagree with this. I currently have the Dragonfly V1 and it's an enjoyable little piece of kit. Not blow me away nice, but it's better than onboard sound out of many computers.


 
  
 I also own a Dragonfly 1.1 and I find the HRT Headstreamer to be more robust and lively. The Dragonfly at it's initial $250 is overpriced. The newly price reduced model is totally worth it (only $100). I have not heard a Dragonfly 1.2 yet..
  
 What's cool is both work on the PS4 no problem and sound excellent, much better than using the output on the controller.


----------



## Change is Good

I have a HRT Music Screamer II, and absolutely love it...


----------



## FruityGayGuy

change is good said:


> I really need to wait until I get my K612 back to really give some good impressions on these.
> 
> So far, I'm sticking with my initial post about these sounding _very_ similar to the SRH1840. The detail and imaging I'm getting with these is AMAZING. It's similarly bass light like the SRH1840, but better textured and there is absoulutely no low frequency distortion (like the SRH1840 is known for).
> 
> ...


 

 Do you prefer the 612 Pro or the HP 200?
 For gaming? Music?


----------



## Change is Good

fruitygayguy said:


> Do you prefer the 612 Pro or the HP 200?
> 
> For gaming? Music?




I'll have to wait until my K612 gets back from tour to answer that question. The HP200 sounds like it may be a bit similar to the stock K612, but its hard to tell without it here (plus my brain mainly remembers how the K612 sounds with the K702 pads).

I can say, however, that the HP200 falls in the neutral/detailed group with the likes of the SRH1840, HD600, Q701/K702, and K612/K601.


----------



## FruityGayGuy

change is good said:


> I'll have to wait until my K612 gets back from tour to answer that question. The HP200 sounds like it may be a bit similar to the stock K612, but its hard to tell without it here (plus my brain mainly remembers how the K612 sounds with the K702 pads).
> 
> I can say, however, that the HP200 falls in the neutral/detailed group with the likes of the SRH1840, HD600, Q701/K702, and K612/K601.


 

 Thanks for your input.


----------



## Change is Good

fruitygayguy said:


> Thanks for your input.


 
  
 To give a better idea of what I'm talking about... 
  

 I can say the HP200 measures somewhat in line with these others....


----------



## ShinHadoukenX

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forums and thought this might be the best place to post my concerns/questions. I was using the turtle beach px21's that came with the earforce dss amp with my ps3. Lo and behold, a side of my headset snaps off one night when I go to use them. So I then had to proceed to get me a replacement. Enter Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide. After researching I decided on the Creative Aurvana Live headphones he recommended. I'm using them with the dss on my ps4 now and have been enjoying them. I was watching Akira 25th Anniversary Blu Ray a couple nights ago and had selected the Japanese 5.1 Dolby TrueHD track. I noticed that the light on the dss was reading for PLXII and not DD (Dolby Digital). I am now concerned if I am not doing something right or haven't applied the right settings. Is it perfectly fine for it not to run in DD? Is it better that way? Is the dss crap? Advice/tips are much appreciated!


----------



## Sam21

I am about to buy the K702, It is said that it has the best detail,soundstage and imaging for under 600 bucks ... is that true ?


----------



## Valathyr

Regarding your list for the BoomMic Pro compatible headphones, which do you think would be comparable to the Ultrasone 780s?


----------



## Fegefeuer

sam21 said:


> I am about to buy the K702, It is said that it has the best detail,soundstage and imaging for under 600 bucks ... is that true ?


 
  
 Do you know about its headband? The new china headbands are even/flat in structure, the older ones have knobs than can be painful after a few hours and leave marks for a few hours after. 
  
 How about the K712 or K702 Anniversaries? There should be a few deals out there by now. I can only speak more about the latter ones, I found them to be a superb allrounder for the money. There's not much else up to 600 bucks. If you mean Euros then there is the Beyerdynamic T1 for 699 Euros which I find superior to any AKG offering except the 812. In comparison to the K7xx series you'll get to know what a real phantom center is, leading to an even and cohorent soundstage. K7xx series are weak in that regard where the phantom center is diffuse and hollow.


----------



## Sam21

the ones with flat headband are fake ? I have heard there are fake ones out there...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The ones with the flat headband are real. They are the updated versions made in China. That's all.


----------



## mmencius

evshrug said:


> I only saw the one episode about soundcards... It was a bit like watching Bill O'Reilly, except there was nobody to provide a counterpoint (and talk over).
> For consoles, the surround processors are also DACs (digital to analogue). Amps only provide the power for analogue signals. The Magni and Vali are amps... that's why they don't have digital inputs.
> 
> Soundcards are a step up in DAC quality and amping power compared to motherboards (the best motherboard integrated sound components are still noisier and less powerful than an entry-level card like an Asus Xonar DGS or Creative Soundblaster Z/Omni), and they also offer headphone surround processing. Motherboards are getting more capable and often are good enough to get by (used to be you had to add a soundcard to get audio AT ALL), and a dedicated headphone gear will still be another step up from soundcards, but soundcards still have their place and are convenient all-in-one solutions.


 
 I think it's a bit much to compare anyone not on Fox to Bill O'Reilly... he did invite intelligent constructive criticism/comments/debate. So the moral is: motherboards<sound cards<DAC/Amp?
  


stillhart said:


> You're missing out on a MAJOR factor: surround processing. It's why we use things like the mixamp and the omni.
> 
> If you want surround from your console, get a mixanp or recon and work from there.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> That's what Grumpy is doing too, and I think it's your best "bang for the buck" config.  My $100 Schiit Modi DAC is nice, but it's not $100 better than my Omni.


 
  
  


grumpy1471 said:


> That's why I love the Omni so far. Digital out and no audible hiss. The Mixamp 2013's hiss is very noticeable but not bad when I'm only gaming with it. I definitely prefer the Omni for everything else though.


 
  
 Let me get this straight in my slow mind, digesting the content of the four above quotes. So when a machine is functioning as an amp, it necessarily takes analog input via RCA cables, amplifies it, and outputs analog via 3.5mm cable that can be heard by the human ear. When a machine functions as a DAC, it necessarily takes digital input via USB or optical and outputs analog. When a machine functions as a surround sound DSP, it takes digital input and can either output analog or digital (eg DSS for analog output or omni for digital output).
  
 So what Grumpy means about the Omni (has digital out) and Stillhart means about not needing a $100 DAC is that the Omni can perform several functions? That it has digital out if you want something else to do the amping/dacing (so it can just do the surround processing), but it can also do the dacing itself so no need for the extra dedicated dac? So if you use an omni with digital out, you are bypassing the amp/dac functions of the soundcard?
 And this is why a Magni/Vali has only RCA inputs.
  
 But let's say I don't care about surround processing since I love stereo sound and don't care about competitiveness. I'd want stuff to game on PS3/PS4 and listen to music through PC. Some questions about sound superiority (if any):
 1. Will a DAC+Amp for music on PC give superior sound to an all-in-one sound card?
 2. The PS3 can output audio through optical or RCA. Will optical->opti-Modi->Magni/Vali->headphones be superior to RCA->Magni->headphones?
 3. The PS4 can output audio through optical, RCA or USB. Which is superior, USB or optical input?
  
 EDIT removed a dumb question 4 which didn't know that stereo headphones don't benefit from actual 5.1 surround sound.
  
 PS: ATHM50 are $75 refurbished on Buydig. I thought they were very beloved, why don't I hear more about them on this thread?


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> Let me get this straight in my slow mind, digesting the content of the four above quotes. So when a machine is functioning as an amp, it necessarily takes analog input via RCA cables, amplifies it, and outputs analog via 3.5mm cable that can be heard by the human ear. When a machine functions as a DAC, it necessarily takes digital input via USB or optical and outputs analog. When a machine functions as a surround sound DSP, it takes digital input and can either output analog or digital (eg DSS for analog output or omni for digital output).
> 
> So what Grumpy means about the Omni (has digital out) and Stillhart means about not needing a $100 DAC is that the Omni can perform several functions? That it has digital out if you want something else to do the amping/dacing (so it can just do the surround processing), but it can also do the dacing itself so no need for the extra dedicated dac? So if you use an omni with digital out, you are bypassing the amp/dac functions of the soundcard?
> And this is why a Magni/Vali has only RCA inputs.
> ...


 
  
 DSP takes a Digital Signal and Processes it into a different digital signal.  It passes the ditial signal to a DAC which Converts the Digital signal to Analog.  The analog signal gets passed to an Amp which Amplifies the signal so it can effectively drive the headphones being used.
  
 A sound card in your computer does all three functions, though DSP is generally done in the software, not the hardware.  The issue is that the DAC and Amp being used in a sound card are generally not as good as dedicated DAC's or Amps.  This is because people don't tend to use the best headphones with them and can't hear the difference.
  
 So to answer your direct questions:
  
 1 - Absolutely.
 2 - For gaming sound, I wouldn't bother with a dedicated DAC.  Run it through your AVR or, if you don't have one nearby, a dedicated amp like the Magni.  But if you're doing that, you should probably just get a Mixamp and enjoy some surround sound instead of the Magni for stereo sound.
 3 - For the PS4, if you don't care about surround, just plug it into your controller and forget about it.
  
 5 - This thread is about good headphones for 3D sound-whoring.  Those aren't thems.
  
 EDIT - To be clear, DSP is a pretty general term that encompasses things like virtual surround processing, crossfading tracks, software EQ, etc.


----------



## Evshrug

You got the moral of the story, yes. But as you learn more about audio and this hobby, you'd realize that some of their tips are good (basic stuff like higher bitrate encoding or lossless music files), but there is a liberal amount of content to make you squirm throughout the video. I could go over it and minute-by-minute respond to what they were saying in that video where they bury a $200 soundcard in the snow, but I'd get tired and nobody has time for that. Wasn't their guest speaker a maker of competitive products, and a sponsor of the show?

1. Yes, most of the time.
2. Depends, if you use the Ps3's RCA outputs then you'd be using the PS3's DAC, and I have no idea how good or bad that DAC is.
3. PS4 only has digital outputs, unless you count the output in the controller, and NO RCA. Assuming you're using the same DAC, there shouldn't be any practical SQ difference between optical and USB.


----------



## mmencius

So my original Q4 was going to be something stupid, but I'll amend it a little: is there any way to connect console to dac/amp via HDMI? Isn't this the only way to carry lossless audio formats Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master?
 Then I thought the question was stupid and removed it because a stereo headphone can't play actual surround sound (which those formats are). But then again: when my DSS is receiving a Dolby 5.1 actual surround sound signal, it does make use of that for processing Dolby Headphone, right? So why doesn't a high end dac like some of Schiit's stuff take HDMI input?
  
 Quote:


stillhart said:


> DSP takes a Digital Signal and Processes it into a different digital signal.  It passes the ditial signal to a DAC which Converts the Digital signal to Analog.  The analog signal gets passed to an Amp which Amplifies the signal so it can effectively drive the headphones being used.
> A sound card in your computer does all three functions, though DSP is generally done in the software, not the hardware.  The issue is that the DAC and Amp being used in a sound card are generally not as good as dedicated DAC's or Amps.  This is because people don't tend to use the best headphones with them and can't hear the difference.
> 
> 1 - Absolutely.
> ...


 
  
 The PS4 controller must have a tiny amp, right? What else could they fit in that? So how would you get decent sound out of a good musical headphone like the Q701?
 I thought most of this thread was for console gaming and it has been confirmed a zillion times that everything will do better with an amp.


evshrug said:


> You got the moral of the story, yes. But as you learn more about audio and this hobby, you'd realize that some of their tips are good (basic stuff like higher bitrate encoding or lossless music files), but there is a liberal amount of content to make you squirm throughout the video. I could go over it and minute-by-minute respond to what they were saying in that video where they bury a $200 soundcard in the snow, but I'd get tired and nobody has time for that. Wasn't their guest speaker a maker of competitive products, and a sponsor of the show?
> 
> 1. Yes, most of the time.
> 2. Depends, if you use the Ps3's RCA outputs then you'd be using the PS3's DAC, and I have no idea how good or bad that DAC is.
> 3. PS4 only has digital outputs, unless you count the output in the controller, and NO RCA. Assuming you're using the same DAC, there shouldn't be any practical SQ difference between optical and USB.


 
 I see. Cheers, and no need to go through everything. So you agree that FLAC vs MP3 is largely placebo? Possibly stupid question: is this the case for lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and its DTS equivalent vs lossy formats Dolby/DTS?


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> The PS4 controller must have a tiny amp, right? What else could they fit in that? So how would you get decent sound out of a good musical headphone like the Q701?
> I thought most of this thread was for console gaming and it has been confirmed a zillion times that everything will do better with an amp.
> 
> I see. Cheers, and no need to go through everything. So you agree that FLAC vs MP3 is largely placebo? Possibly stupid question: is this the case for lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and its DTS equivalent vs lossy formats Dolby/DTS?


 
 I assumed you were using your console for gaming, not music, based on your line of questioning.  If that's the case, then you only need to worry about amping for volume levels, not for sound quality.  If the Q701 gets loud enough out of the controller, you don't need to amp it.  Of course if you get an efficient can like the X1, it's a non-issue.
  
 And while everything soudns better with an amp, it's only going to sound as good as your source.  Game audio isn't going to be vastly improved from putting high quality audio gear in there.  Music (in a quality format) will.  FLAC's 100% sound better than 192k or V0 MP3's; it's definitely not placebo.  320k MP3's are much harder to distinguish.


----------



## mmencius

stillhart said:


> I assumed you were using your console for gaming, not music, based on your line of questioning.  If that's the case, then you only need to worry about amping for volume levels, not for sound quality.  If the Q701 gets loud enough out of the controller, you don't need to amp it.  Of course if you get an efficient can like the X1, it's a non-issue.
> 
> And while everything soudns better with an amp, it's only going to sound as good as your source.  Game audio isn't going to be vastly improved from putting high quality audio gear in there.  Music (in a quality format) will.  FLAC's 100% sound better than 192k or V0 MP3's; it's definitely not placebo.  320k MP3's are much harder to distinguish.


 
 I don't understand: many games' soundtracks are recorded with a live orchestra, and consoles can output lossless audio format: why is game audio of low quality? I remember when I first asked on this thread, you recommended the Q701 to me. If game audio isn't going to be improved much from audio gear, what about the choice of headphone itself? So are you saying that good headphones for gaming are mainly for the surround effect and not for the SQ of in game audio?


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> I don't understand: many games' soundtracks are recorded with a live orchestra, and consoles can output lossless audio format: why is game audio of low quality? I remember when I first asked on this thread, you recommended the Q701 to me. If game audio isn't going to be improved much from audio gear, what about the choice of headphone itself? So are you saying that good headphones for gaming are mainly for the surround effect and not for the SQ of in game audio?


 
 The Q701 is great for gaming because the tonality and soundstage and positional cues make it fantastic for virtual surround gaming.  It also happens to be a great headphone for music if you like the sound signature.  This thread is about virtual surround gaming and the headphone was recommended with that in mind.
  
 If your needs are different, it's good for to know that so we can advise you correctly.


----------



## mmencius

stillhart said:


> The Q701 is great for gaming because the tonality and soundstage and positional cues make it fantastic for virtual surround gaming.  It also happens to be a great headphone for music if you like the sound signature.  This thread is about virtual surround gaming and the headphone was recommended with that in mind.
> 
> If your needs are different, it's good for to know that so we can advise you correctly.


 
 Ah I see, thank you. So for stereo gaming, just stick headphones straight into the PS4 controller? That's pretty anticlimactic . 
  
 What about PS3: I'm currently not so satisfied with SQ of Superlux + DSS (whether Dolby bypass is on or not), will it improve with a Magni, or is game audio just that not great? Maybe I should take a break from gaming and visit the BSO tonight


----------



## Stillhart

mmencius said:


> Ah I see, thank you. So for stereo gaming, just stick headphones straight into the PS4 controller? That's pretty anticlimactic .
> 
> What about PS3: I'm currently not so satisfied with SQ of Superlux + DSS (whether Dolby bypass is on or not), will it improve with a Magni, or is game audio just that not great? Maybe I should take a break from gaming and visit the BSO tonight


 
 Well to be fair, sticking it straight into the controller is a fantastically easy solution that wasn't available in the past.
  
 I don't have any experience with the PS3 or the DSS so I'll let more experienced minds answer that one.


----------



## jeeezy

Hm, is it worth upgrading from the X1 Fildelio to the AKG K712 or are they too similar?
 I am not 100% happy with my X1 atm.
 What i want:
 - less Bass
 - more Detail
 - bigger Soundstage
 - and better Comfort for my big head lol xD
  
 Would be nice if some of you heard both of them.
 Tanks guys! <3


----------



## Stillhart

jeeezy said:


> Hm, is it worth upgrading from the X1 Fildelio to the AKG K712 or are they too similar?
> I am not 100% happy with my X1 atm.
> What i want:
> - less Bass
> ...


 
 Out of curiosity, are you amping your X1?  I found that amping helped cure the first two points.  Well, the bass was a lot more controlled, less boomy, so it felt like "less" without actually being less.  And of course cleaning up the bass helped the detail.
  
 But yeah, the AKG is going to have less bass, more detail and a bigger soundstage.  Can't speak to comfort, but MLE has a big head so maybe read what he says about comfort in his reviews on the first page.  You could probably save some money and get a Q701 too.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

How about the AD700X, AD900X compared to Q701s for less bass, more details and bigger soundstage?


----------



## jeeezy

stillhart said:


> Out of curiosity, are you amping your X1?  I found that amping helped cure the first two points.  Well, the bass was a lot more controlled, less boomy, so it felt like "less" without actually being less.  And of course cleaning up the bass helped the detail.


 
 Nope, no amping yet. Have to buy an amp for the k712 anyways. So i might buy some fiio amp first and see what happens.
 Thanks for the tip. 
  


goldenboyxd said:


> How about the AD700X, AD900X compared to Q701s for less bass, more details and bigger soundstage?


 
 I dont want some neutral sounding phones. Like Stillhart said, its the boomyness i cant stand on the X1s.
 But the Q701 is also an option.


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Can anyone comment about the gaming performance of AD700X / AD900X compared to Q701s?


----------



## Stillhart

goldenboyxd said:


> Can anyone comment about the gaming performance of AD700X / AD900X compared to Q701s?


 

 Pretty sure that info is right there on the front page...


----------



## Bonzo

Hi, so i've been reading this excelent guide and basically got "talked out" of buying a 7.1 headset. I already have an ultrasone pro 900 headphone and got curious on how to get dolby headphone off my ps3/ps4. I have an e17 too but I imagine it only outputs stereo. What would I need in order to get dolby headphone? Thanks mad envy and guys!


----------



## watsaname

To get virtual surround out of a ps3 you would want a Astro Mixamp or Turtlebeach DSS, if I am not mistaken.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mmencius said:


> I don't understand: many games' soundtracks are recorded with a live orchestra, and consoles can output lossless audio format: why is game audio of low quality?


 
  
 Memory footprint (and processing power but that is another topic). Split pool 256/256 and 512 MB Ram just don't cut it and multiplatform game design used to built upon the lowest machines aka PS360 so everybody in the end gets the samples, both the 16GB PC and those consoles. With clever streaming/memory handling you could use better samples but that was mostly reserved for Sony titles. With the new consoles the ceiling is much higher. KZ:SF for instance uses the whole memory of a Xbox 360 just for audio calculations/processing.


----------



## benbenkr

mmencius said:


> *I don't understand: many games' soundtracks are recorded with a live orchestra, and consoles can output lossless audio format: why is game audio of low quality*? I remember when I first asked on this thread, you recommended the Q701 to me. If game audio isn't going to be improved much from audio gear, what about the choice of headphone itself? So are you saying that good headphones for gaming are mainly for the surround effect and not for the SQ of in game audio?


 
  
 Because, space issues.
  
 Because people b**** and complain about downloading a 60GB game because of lossless audio files from Steam. Because games still need to fit in a 25GB (of which only 21GB is usable) Blu-ray disc and don't want to go to dual-layered Blu-rays unless absolutely at all nessassary. Because 95% of gamers can't tell the difference. Because really, we are the very small minority that even care about audio quality in games. Because eye candy > ear candy, thus more concentration on visuals.
  
 Need more reasons?


----------



## Stillhart

bonzo said:


> Hi, so i've been reading this excelent guide and basically got "talked out" of buying a 7.1 headset. I already have an ultrasone pro 900 headphone and got curious on how to get dolby headphone off my ps3/ps4. I have an e17 too but I imagine it only outputs stereo. What would I need in order to get dolby headphone? Thanks mad envy and guys!


 
  
  


watsaname said:


> To get virtual surround out of a ps3 you would want a Astro Mixamp or Turtlebeach DSS, if I am not mistaken.


 
  
 You can use any of the devices specified on the very first page of the guide.  Scroll down past the headphone reviews and pick one of the 5 or so that are listed.


----------



## Evshrug

mmencius said:


> The PS4 controller must have a tiny amp, right? What else could they fit in that? So how would you get decent sound out of a good musical headphone like the Q701?
> 
> *I mean... I'd still like it better wired to the console, and amped. You gain convenience by using your wireless controller with a smartphone-style TRRS headphone (has a mic, and 4 "poles" or 3 black rings on the plug), but how much money do you think Sony put into the wireless audio transmitter, DAC, and amp built into the $60 controller that already has (awesome) features like 6-axis motion controls, a trackpad, lightbar, built-in mini speaker, refined analogue triggers and thumbsticks... So yeah, I recommend an amp to make things sweet rather than harsh, especially for games with great sweeping audio scores and immersive sound effects. I don't care about audio quality at all for a game like Starcraft multiplayer where audio is just an alert, but for good FPS and RPG games good audio is part of the fun *
> 
> ...



Um, I think there's definitely a benefit to higher bitrates (weren't they recommending at least 256 kbps AAC or better?), and I like to have my favourite songs on CD or in a lossless format like FLAC or Apple-Lossless, but it's harder to hear the difference above 320 Kbps. It's easy for me to hear AAC sound better than MP3 at the same kbps.

There's a big difference in how good audio sounds and how sweet/palatable it feels between lower bit-rate and 256 kbps, the next step up to 320 kbps is smaller but still easy to hear with cymbals and songs with a wide dynamic range of loud to soft sound, then things get clearer and more transparent as you go up from there but it's harder to specify what changes because of the laws of diminishing returns. I honestly haven't heard the lossless Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-Master, because I don't own any of the media presently, but games don't use those levels of audio quality, and you pretty much have to have an AV Receiver to decode those or use HDMI input for audio.



fegefeuer said:


> Memory footprint (and processing power but that is another topic). Split pool 256/256 and 512 MB Ram just don't cut it and multiplatform game design used to built upon the lowest machines aka PS360 so everybody in the end gets the samples, both the 16GB PC and those consoles. With clever streaming/memory handling you could use better samples but that was mostly reserved for Sony titles. With the new consoles the ceiling is much higher. KZ:SF for instance uses the whole memory of a Xbox 360 just for audio calculations/processing.



^what he said!


----------



## conquerator2

It's more to the mastering itself than the bitrate imo. A badly mastered song will sound bad irregardless of bitrate. Also, a well mastered track will sound good even at lower bitrate.
Most of the time distinguishing a 256-320kbps mp3/aac and flac is not easy for me so I usually bother not...
If things are available in flac good, if not a higher quality mp3/aac is plenty sufficient...
As to the 44.1/16 vs 96/24 etc... I am not even gonna go there :rolleyes:


----------



## brownvim

I'm hoping you guys can help me, I've bought some Bose Quiet Comfort 20i's that I got for half price. I want to use these with my PS4, now plugging them into the PS4 controller works (mic and audio) but the sound isn't loud enough and it's only stereo.

Reading the thread it looks like I need a mixamp, I'm looking to get an Astro 5.8 RX TX amp off my friend who wants to upgrade to the newer mixamp.

Will I be able to have chat audio through the amp? Is it as simple as plugging the headphones into the amp? As the only wire that goes to the PS4 is optical and I didn't think it carried chat audio?


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> It's more to the mastering itself than the bitrate imo. A badly mastered song will sound bad irregardless of bitrate. Also, a well mastered track will sound good even at lower bitrate.
> Most of the time distinguishing a 256-320kbps mp3/aac and flac is not easy for me so I usually bother not...
> If things are available in flac good, if not a higher quality mp3/aac is plenty sufficient...
> As to the 44.1/16 vs 96/24 etc... I am not even gonna go there


 

 I agree, this has been mastered well and sounds good on anything!  The audio was done with the universal audio Apollo(pro tools 11) and the image was recorded with a canon 1dc dslr camera(avid media composer)..looks and sounds $h!t hot!


----------



## grumpy1471

conquerator2 said:


> It's more to the mastering itself than the bitrate imo. A badly mastered song will sound bad irregardless of bitrate. Also, a well mastered track will sound good even at lower bitrate.
> Most of the time distinguishing a 256-320kbps mp3/aac and flac is not easy for me so I usually bother not...
> If things are available in flac good, if not a higher quality mp3/aac is plenty sufficient...
> As to the 44.1/16 vs 96/24 etc... I am not even gonna go there :rolleyes:




I agree completely. I can't even begin to hear a difference in between 320 (or even 256) and ALAC. Generally, if a song sounds good on my PC in lossless, it'll sound just as good at 320kbps AAC. I can hear a difference when I switch sources or use an amp and DAC but lossless doesn't really seem to make any noticeable difference. I just have all my music in lossless just to be safe


----------



## SaLX

Evs - Great to see you trying to shoot people in the face on Twitch /CoD. Nice stream. You're too way too laid back to be a stone cold killer. Also Stillhart - great chatting with you too 
  
 Here's Ev's link btw, seeing as he's not a shameless self promoter:http://www.twitch.tv/evshrug/. Nice guy, crap shooter.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey, I went positive!
...most of the time!

And tell my mom that these games don't make me a stone cold killer, lol. But yeah, I'll be streaming more frequently as it seems more people are watching or stumbling onto it


----------



## DannyRox23

MadLust, did you ever review the HD 700? I have recently purchased those (about 4 days ago,) and was quite impressed when I compared it to my HD 650 and HD 800. I didn't pay full price because I was a little skeptical on paying a great amount, and finding out they are flooks (not worth the money.) I find the price I paid ($600) is a fair amount because they do actually have identical mids compared to the HD 800, and the bass is definitely more defined compared to the HD 650. However; the highs come off unnaturally, making them sound screechy at times, but I guess that's what makes them sound "fun." What do you think?


----------



## sebastianZA

Can anybody help...I'm looking at a spending $350 on cans,mic and mix amp for gaming. I was looking at turtle beach xp510 but after reading some threads I realised that they over priced. So if anybody could suggest a setup that would cost about 350 it would be much appreciated. I'm already looking at the astro mix amp pro but as for cans and external mic in unsure... I'm looking for most bang for buck as I'll probably have to import... Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

sebastianza said:


> Can anybody help...I'm looking at a spending $350 on cans,mic and mix amp for gaming. I was looking at turtle beach xp510 but after reading some threads I realised that they over priced. So if anybody could suggest a setup that would cost about 350 it would be much appreciated. I'm already looking at the astro mix amp pro but as for cans and external mic in unsure... I'm looking for most bang for buck as I'll probably have to import... Thanks


 
  
 If you want to be super lazy about it, there's a guy in the classifieds selling a DT990+Mixamp 5.8+Modmic for $350.  Honestly, it's not the best deal, but it's a good setup and it's easy.


----------



## Hipershadow

Hi there, 

This is thef irst time I'm posting here at head-fi, but I've been reading this thread for a long time. 

I know that some of you are from Orlando and I am looking for a headphone cable called V-Moda boom pro, could anyone please tell me what physical store sell it nearby? I have been looking in best buy and staples without success, it'sout of stock on Amazon and I am returning to my country next Thursday.


----------



## Change is Good

hipershadow said:


> Hi there,
> 
> This is thef irst time I'm posting here at head-fi, but I've been reading this thread for a long time.
> 
> I know that some of you are from Orlando and I am looking for a headphone cable called V-Moda boom pro, could anyone please tell me what physical store sell it nearby? I have been looking in best buy and staples without success, it'sout of stock on Amazon and I am returning to my country next Thursday.




I had to order mine from the VModa website. They just shipped out, today, after having to wait on more inventory. All their distributors are out of stock.


----------



## Hipershadow

Crap...
Ty for the fast response =)


----------



## sebastianZA

stillhart said:


> If you want to be super lazy about it, there's a guy in the classifieds selling a DT990+Mixamp 5.8+Modmic for $350.  Honestly, it's not the best deal, but it's a good setup and it's easy.


 Thanks but I'm looking at buying new maybe I should just import that setup


----------



## Stillhart

sebastianza said:


> Thanks but I'm looking at buying new maybe I should just import that setup


 

 There are probably better headphones for the price new than the DT990.  AKG K612, for example.  Also you can't get the Mixamp 5.8 new anymore, so you'd have to get something else.


----------



## martin vegas

sebastianza said:


> Thanks but I'm looking at buying new maybe I should just import that setup


 

 Is it for pc or console? if it's pc you can get the sennheiser pc363d with dolby headphone 7.1 built into the dongle headphone amp thingy!


----------



## sebastianZA

martin vegas said:


> Is it for pc or console? if it's pc you can get the sennheiser pc363d with dolby headphone 7.1 built into the dongle headphone amp thingy!


 it's for ps3 and ps4 use I was looking at a astro mix amp pro with cans and mic... Just unsure on decent setup


----------



## Stillhart

sebastianza said:


> it's for ps3 and ps4 use I was looking at a astro mix amp pro with cans and mic... Just unsure on decent setup


 

 Do you want maximum sound-whoring or do you want better-than-most-cans-on-the-market sound whoring but with some fun thrown in?
  
 For option A, get a AKG K612 or Q701 and a cheap clipon mic (see the Neewer mic in the guide) and consider a small amp to go with it.  For option B, get a Philips Fidelio X1 and a Vmoda Boompro mic.
  
 Those are the two main recommendations these days.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Do you want maximum sound-whoring or do you want better-than-most-cans-on-the-market sound whoring but with some fun thrown in?
> 
> For option A, get a AKG K612 or Q701 and a cheap clipon mic (see the Neewer mic in the guide) and consider a small amp to go with it.  For option B, get a Philips Fidelio X1 and a Vmoda Boompro mic.
> 
> Those are the two main recommendations these days.


 
 AKG K612 is option B + a little amp, imo... Just saying


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> AKG K612 is option B + a little amp, imo... Just saying


 

 Well I haven't heard the K612, so I can't really say.  But I've heard the Q and the X1 and I'm assuming the K612 is closer to the Q than the X1.  Could be wrong of course.  And if I was, it'd be cheaper than the X1 so good news there.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Well I haven't heard the K612, so I can't really say.  But I've heard the Q and the X1 and I'm assuming the K612 is closer to the Q than the X1.  Could be wrong of course.  And if I was, it'd be cheaper than the X1 so good news there.


 
 Well, I owned the X1 not too long ago and the K612 is definitely the more balanced and less bassy but to my ears, it offers the best of both worlds. Lots of immersion [very dynamic sound] but with great imaging and tonality [neutral and very holographic].
 It really a very special gaming headphone [and a decent music can as well].
 I suspect it's very hard to beat in terms of gaming performance + sound-whoring/immersion blend... I am not sure my soon to be HE-560 beats it here. It surely will in sheer music performance but for gaming purposes... might be a very interesting comparison [one I am eager to make].
 Provided, you amp the K612 at least a little, that is.


----------



## sebastianZA

conquerator2 said:


> Well, I owned the X1 not too long ago and the K612 is definitely the more balanced and less bassy but to my ears, it offers the best of both worlds. Lots of immersion [very dynamic sound] but with great imaging and tonality [neutral and very holographic].
> It really a very special gaming headphone [and a decent music can as well].
> I suspect it's very hard to beat in terms of gaming performance + sound-whoring/immersion blend... I am not sure my soon to be HE-560 beats it here. It surely will in sheer music performance but for gaming purposes... might be a very interesting comparison [one I am eager to make].
> Provided, you amp the K612 at least a little, that is.


 what amp would you guys recommend then with the akg k612 I'm assuming the amp goes with the astro mix amp pro?


----------



## conquerator2

sebastianza said:


> what amp would you guys recommend then with the akg k612 I'm assuming the amp goes with the astro mix amp pro?


 
 Yes, it goes with the mixamp.
 I've only ever tried it with the Mstage, but that's probably over your budget [around 200USD] but I suspect cheaper Fiios would do well too [E11, E12 or even E9].
 The HiFiMAN EF2A is a great entry level tube DAC/amp too for these.
 That'd be my bet, maybe others can chime in.


----------



## Stillhart

sebastianza said:


> what amp would you guys recommend then with the akg k612 I'm assuming the amp goes with the astro mix amp pro?


 
  
  


conquerator2 said:


> Yes, it goes with the mixamp.
> I've only ever tried it with the Mstage, but that's probably over your budget [around 200USD] but I suspect cheaper Fiios would do well too [E11, E12 or even E9].
> The HiFiMAN EF2A is a great entry level tube DAC/amp too for these.
> That'd be my bet, maybe others can chime in.


 
  
 If you're just using it for gaming, grab a cheap E09k or Magni and call it a day.  The E12 is nice, but you can't use it while it's charging and if you don't need the portable-ness, it's not worth the money.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> If you're just using it for gaming, grab a cheap E09k or Magni and call it a day.  *The E12 is nice, but you can't use it while it's charging and if you don't need the portable-ness, it's not worth the money.*




The E12 performs better, and has more power than the old desktop E9/E9K, so I disagree. Have you heard either to make such a claim?

Also, FiiO was able to isolate the noise issues during charging, and are now making a rev.3 (without a crossfeed switch) to fix it.


----------



## sebastianZA

conquerator2 said:


> Yes, it goes with the mixamp.
> I've only ever tried it with the Mstage, but that's probably over your budget [around 200USD] but I suspect cheaper Fiios would do well too [E11, E12 or even E9].
> The HiFiMAN EF2A is a great entry level tube DAC/amp too for these.
> That'd be my bet, maybe others can chime in.


 if it exceeds my budget for this month wud not having a amp effect my overall experience badly?


----------



## conquerator2

sebastianza said:


> if it exceeds my budget for this month wud not having a amp effect my overall experience badly?


 
 A bit... not drastically but to a degree of dynamics, yes. Mafni is also a good choice.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> The E12 performs better, and has more power than the old desktop E9/E9K, so I disagree...
> 
> Also, FiiO was able to isolate the noise issues during charging, and are now making a rev.3 (without a crossfeed switch) to fix that issue.


 
  
 If the Rev 3 isn't out yet, it's a moot point.  But that's really good to know, though... rev 3 might be something I'm interested in.
  
 Magni vs E12, I think the Fiio is supposed to be warmer, right?  Not sure which pairs better with the K612.  I still hold that a desktop solution is better than a portable solution if you're not going to use the portable as a portable.
  


sebastianza said:


> if it exceeds my budget for this month wud not having a amp effect my overall experience badly?


 
  
 Using it for a month with no amp will give you a much better appreciation for how it sounds with an amp later.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> If the Rev 3 isn't out yet, it's a moot point.  But that's really good to know, though... rev 3 might be something I'm interested in.
> 
> Magni vs E12, I think the Fiio is supposed to be warmer, right?  Not sure which pairs better with the K612.  I still hold that a desktop solution is better than a portable solution if you're not going to use the portable as a portable.
> 
> ...




My main point was that it performs better than the outdated desktop E9/E9K. You also missed my edit when I asked if you've heard either to make such a claim... so have you?

The M-Stage is levels above the E9/Magni, so don't be quick to assume that ALL desktop amps perform better than portables. The E12 is a hybrid portable, if you ask me.

What did Ev call it in his review? Zues in your pocket?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> What did Ev call it in his review? Zues in your pocket?


 
  
 My mind went to a very dark place with that comment. Until it has been removed from my brain I dislike you, sir.


----------



## Change is Good

Was it the misspelling? Damn phone lol... 

"The power of *Zeus* in your pocket"

Please like me again


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Was it the misspelling? Damn phone lol...
> 
> "The power of *Zeus* in your pocket"
> 
> Please like me again


 
  
 Fifteen dollar.


----------



## conquerator2

Alooone and forsaken... I wouldn't wanna be in your shoes, paying for forgiveness, just saying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Barter it down to 10$!
  
My services are provided free of charge though...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> My main point was that it performs better than the outdated desktop E9/E9K. You also missed my edit when I asked if you've heard either to make such a claim... so have you?
> 
> The M-Stage is levels above the E9/Magni, so don't be quick to assume that ALL desktop amps perform better than portables. The E12 is a hybrid portable, if you ask me.
> 
> What did Ev call it in his review? Zues in your pocket?


 

 You know I've never heard them.  But you also know that I've been reading up about amps extensively lately. 
  
 I won't argue that it performs better than the E09k, as I've never heard either.  But I know the E12 sounds bad if you use it when it's plugged in and some people won't want to deal with charging it and unplugging it etc.  They just want something they can plug in and forget about it.  I'm just giving information so people can make an informed decision.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> You know I've never heard them.  But you also know that I've been reading up about amps extensively lately.
> 
> I won't argue that it performs better than the E09k, as I've never heard either.  But I know the E12 sounds bad if you use it when it's plugged in and some people won't want to deal with charging it and unplugging it etc.  They just want something they can plug in and forget about it.  I'm just giving information so people can make an informed decision.




Then make sure you mention "FWIR" when you give information about something you have yet to try yourself...

You may have read up on A LOT of information, but last time I checked sight and hearing are two different senses...


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Alooone and forsaken... I wouldn't wanna be in your shoes, paying for forgiveness, just saying :veryevil:
> Barter it down to 10$!
> 
> My services are provided free of charge though...




Y'all ain't gettin' schiit from me! Hehehehe...


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Y'all ain't gettin' schiit from me! Hehehehe...


 
 I'll be taking something else then


----------



## dentinglo

Can anyone sway me in any particular way concerning a choice between a headset and a pair of headphones + mic? I've been looking at getting the SLYR's, but those CAL's seemed particularly nice too. My only issue is that is if I got those, I'd be restricted to playing on the PC instead of both PC and my xbox, and I'd also have to get a mic for it. Although in all honesty, whatever mic I got would probably end up being better than the SLYR's mic. Kinda stuck on what to choose here.


----------



## sebastianZA

Thanks for the help guys...I'm going to get a AKG Q701,Fiio E12 and astro mix amp pro...any ideas on a mic? Was looking at the ant lion modmic? Or does anybody know if the V-Moda boom pro mic works with the AKG Q701


----------



## Change is Good

Took some butchering and a warranty void on the BoomPro, but it works!


----------



## grumpy1471

sebastianza said:


> Thanks for the help guys...I'm going to get a AKG Q701,Fiio E12 and astro mix amp pro...any ideas on a mic? Was looking at the ant lion modmic? Or does anybody know if the V-Moda boom pro mic works with the AKG Q701




The V-Moda boom pro doesn't work with the Q701 or other AKG headphones with the mini XLR plug.... yet... Zombie_X is making an adapter that goes from mini XLR to 3.5mm for the boom pro. You'll have to find the thread he made and let him know if you want to test out the adapter. 

As for the mics that do work, you'll have to go for the modmic (rev 4.0 is up for preorder!) or a clip on mic. Right now, I'm using the Neweer clip on mic and it's worked well so far for me. The cord could've been longer but it was cheap enough so I can't complain.


----------



## Change is Good

@Stillhart, don't forget to post impressions of the HP100 when you get it. I've been trying to tell people in this thread about their awesomeness and wide soundstage for a closed headphone. SoundMAGIC really get's overlooked since they don't have much of a full-size lineup, but the two I've tried are rather impressive!
  
 Maybe once @Mad Lust Envy returns from his looong hiatus, he'd be willing to review both the HP100 and HP200 if we send them to him at the same time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Zombie_X

Indeed the adapter loan program is open to the US and Canada. Let me know if you're interested. I've pretty much got the final design down.


----------



## ursawar0000

Hey, would you try and review the zalman mic? Thanks


----------



## chicolom

ursawar0000 said:


> Hey, would you try and review the zalman mic? Thanks


 
  
  
 The Zalman mic isn't that good.  It's not that sensitive.  Use the other mics he recommends instead.
  
 Source:  I have one.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> The Zalman mic isn't that good.  It's not that sensitive.  Use the other mics he recommends instead.
> 
> Source:  I have one.


 
  
 Agreed, the Zalman leaves a lot to be desired. I'd recommend one of the cheap clip-on mics. I have the DX version that MLE reviewed. It doesn't claim to be anything more than what it is and sounds pretty clear in chat. I've gamed with a couple guys here and they've said it was clear enough.


----------



## Change is Good

You got any extra DX mics, axel, or just one?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> You got any extra DX mics, axel, or just one?


 
  
 Just the one. They're cheap, just slow to ship from DX's Chinese distribution center.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Just the one. *They're cheap, just slow to ship from DX's Chinese distribution center.*


 
  I know, lol... that's why I asked... *sigh*
  
 Need one for the K612 when it returns.


----------



## chicolom

Here are a couple K612 impressions:
  
  
*K612*
  

The K612 is more neutral than the K712, but not as neutral as the Q701 (going off memory). 
Signature probably isn't that different than the HD600.
When you put the K712 pads on the K612, it becomes warmer than the K712.  So the K612 drivers themselves are actually a little warmer sounding.
The K612 is really _hungry _for volume.
Midrange is a bit more forward on the K612 (compared to K712).
Compared to K712, it's not quite as detailed and resolving, and has a little more grain to it. 
Build quality feels a little cheaper than K712.
Soundstage is solid and plenty good for this price.  The K712s is a bit more expansive sounding and with more layering and cleaner separation.  One of the premiums you get for paying extra (along with the better resolution and greater body). 
 
 
 
The K612 is damn good for ~$165.  No real faults with it.  It's got a nice balanced signature and good detail and soundstage for the price. It's not as good as the K712, but ya.  The K712 is reallly lovely. 
 
K612s comfort is pretty good too.  The pads aren't quite deep as the K712 or K702/Q701, but you can swap those pads on it if you like.   I believe the K612 pads don't use as dense a foam as the K702, as they seem to compress a quicker.  I remember the K702 pads being firmer. 
 
Overall the K612 is definitely of the best options under 200.


----------



## chicolom

*Axel*, did you ever get that Geek Pulse amp with the 3D effect? 
  
 I'd be curious to compare it with the iCan to see which 3D effect is better...


----------



## kman1211

chicolom said:


> Here are a couple K612 impressions:
> 
> 
> *K612*
> ...


 

 That's pretty much in line with my impressions of the K612 compared to the K712. Although I personally think the K612 is more neutral than the Q701. It does sound rather similar to the HD 600. What I really like about the K612 is how non-fatiguing the sound is. The K712 can be a tad fatiguing because of the treble at times.


----------



## Change is Good

chicolom said:


> Here are a couple K612 impressions:
> 
> 
> *K612*
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the impressions, chico! You were right, it's very much in line with what the rest of us have had to say about them
  
*The SoundMAGIC HP200 might be joining that range, as well.*


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> *Axel*, did you ever get that Geek Pulse amp with the 3D effect?
> 
> I'd be curious to compare it with the iCan to see which 3D effect is better...


 
  
 I don't expect to have that in hand until fall or winter, honestly. The Geek Out has begun shipping to people who backed at the same time as I did, so I should have that soon-ish. Hopefully not too much longer. I'll give you a shout when it comes in and we can do a mini-meet at my place. I know a few others in the area who may show up for an afternoon.
  
 The 3D functionality may only work when running through the DAC portion of the Pulse. That's a good question for me to bring to the development team, actually. I'll give them a buzz and see what they say.
  


change is good said:


> I know, lol... that's why I asked... *sigh*
> 
> Need one for the K612 when it returns.


 
  
 Well I could hold on to your K612 for 3 weeks while you wait for it.


----------



## chicolom

COol.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Well I could hold on to your K612 for 3 weeks while you wait for it.


 
  
 Sure, just send your L2 to compare with the HP200 to hold me over, till then...


----------



## sebastianZA

zombie_x said:


> Indeed the adapter loan program is open to the US and Canada. Let me know if you're interested. I've pretty much got the final design down.


 The joys of living in Africa 90% of anything I want needs to be imported and thanks to Amazon for being so f@#king useful nothing can be shipped to me...


----------



## Eeaeau

I just bought the akg 712k and now I think I will buy the schiit magni / modi combo, do I need to buy anny extra cables too pair them up with the headphones and which type? I have a laptop with headphone/mic combo jack, do i need an adepter for this? Also there are two versions of the modi, one with usb and one with optical, which is best?
  
  thanks in advance


----------



## martin vegas

eeaeau said:


> I just bought the akg 712k and now I think I will buy the schiit magni / modi combo, do I need to buy anny extra cables too pair them up with the headphones and which type? I have a laptop with headphone/mic combo jack, do i need an adepter for this? Also there are two versions of the modi, one with usb and one with optical, which is best?
> 
> thanks in advance


 


  
 Has your laptop got optical out or is it just usb? you will need a rca cable if it doesn't come with one!


----------



## Eeaeau

martin vegas said:


> Has your laptop got optical out or is it just usb?


 
 thanks for the quick reply
 no it dose not have optical out.. but when the new nvidia 8xx serie, i think gonna buy a new pc that have optical out


----------



## martin vegas

eeaeau said:


> thanks for the quick reply
> no it dose not have optical out.. but when the new nvidia 8xx serie, i think gonna buy a new pc that have optical out


 

 Get the one with the usb and some decent rca cables and your good to go(look on the "Schiit Magni Headphone Amplifier" thread and check if it comes with a usb cable)..you can always get a mic later on!


----------



## GodBless

Hi mad lust can you review the takstar headphones list? Such as hd2000 hd3000 or dj250 or TS-671
Lots of my friend recommend those headset for FPS

Thx b4


----------



## Eeaeau

martin vegas said:


> Get the one with the usb and some decent rca cables and your good to go(look on the "Schiit Magni Headphone Amplifier" thread and check if it comes with a usb cable)..you can always get a mic later on!


 
 ok, thanks! 
 do have anny rca cable that you know is good and can recommend?


----------



## martin vegas

eeaeau said:


> ok, thanks!
> do have anny rca cable that you know is good and can recommend?


 

  
  
 Have a look on the schiit website and look for PYST Cables, you will need a usb cable and rca..they are $20 for the rca and $20 for the usb!


----------



## Kamakahah

martin vegas said:


> Have a look on the schiit website and look for PYST Cables, you will need a usb cable and rca..they are $20 for the rca and $20 for the usb!




Pyst cables are pretty stiff. If the connection requires a relatively sharp U-turn them it can get hairy. They are also pretty expensive for what you're getting. They are well made so it's not a bad choice. 

You can make a better pair for cheaper if you have a soldering iron and a hour or two. Just pick up some Canare L-4E5C and some plugs of choice. 
Monoprice is a decent option but they don't offer them quite as short. Cheaper, but still heavy and fairly stiff.


----------



## Eeaeau

martin vegas said:


> Have a look on the schiit website and look for PYST Cables, you will need a usb cable and rca..they are $20 for the rca and $20 for the usb!


 
  


kamakahah said:


> Pyst cables are pretty stiff. If the connection requires a relatively sharp U-turn them it can get hairy. They are also pretty expensive for what you're getting. They are well made so it's not a bad choice.
> 
> You can make a better pair for cheaper if you have a soldering iron and a hour or two. Just pick up some Canare L-4E5C and some plugs of choice.
> Monoprice is a decent option but they don't offer them quite as short. Cheaper, but still heavy and fairly stiff.


 
 Thanks for the hlep!
 I would like some higher qualety cables if i not to expensive tho . Do not you know of someone that is decent quality and easily bendable?
 Found this site that makes some awsome lokking custom cables, but sadly it looks like they do not make rca cables: (


----------



## martin vegas

eeaeau said:


> Thanks for the hlep!
> I would like some higher qualety cables if i not to expensive tho . Do not you know of someone that is decent quality and easily bendable?
> Found this site that makes some awsome lokking custom cables, but sadly it looks like they do not make rca cables: (


 
 You won't really need any better ones for them..cardas are good but they are for high end gear not budget gear..nordost are the best you can get but that's another story.. audioquest would be more in your price range but they might be a bit long..go with the pyst cables!


----------



## Sam21

for Analog cables buy audio quest ... my Evergreens will be here tomorrow ...


----------



## Change is Good

Those Audioquest cables are overrated. I had an evergreen optical and there wasn't any noticeable improvement over Mediabridge's optical cables... returned it the very next day...


----------



## Zombie_X

change is good said:


> Those Audioquest cables are overrated. I had an evergreen optical and there wasn't any noticeable improvement over Mediabridge's optical cables... returned it the very next day...


 
  
 I honestly don't think the Audioquest are worth $34. They are no better than $5 optical cables.
  
 EDIT: Reworded post.


----------



## Sam21

change is good said:


> Those Audioquest cables are overrated. I had an evergreen optical and there wasn't any noticeable improvement over Mediabridge's optical cables... returned it the very next day...


 
  
 all Optical cables less than a certain length function the same ,  Analog cables are different.


----------



## jaysins

Just got the modmic 4.0 and will have time to test out over the next few days if anyone is interested on early impressions.


----------



## tmaxx123

nice, looking forward to that!


----------



## martin vegas

zombie_x said:


> I honestly don't think the Audioquest are worth $34. They are no better than $5 optical cables.
> 
> EDIT: Reworded post.


 

 He could get the diamond back or king cobras but I wouldn't bother..if he goes up the schiit line and gets better amp and dac then he could spend a bit more on cables! AudioQuest Kingcobra audio cable - RCA plugs 0.5m 1.64 feet stereo pair amazon

List Price:$179.00Price:$119.00  + $4.99 shipping


----------



## martin vegas

Audiophile grade audioquest start with the diamond backs..anything below that is not really worth bothering about(won't be any different to the $20 pyst cables)..he could get the pyst usb cable and later on if he wants something better he could get nordost blue heaven!


----------



## Eeaeau

martin vegas said:


> Audiophile grade audioquest start with the diamond backs..anything below that is not really worth bothering about(won't be any different to the $20 pyst cables)..he could get the pyst usb cable and later on if he wants something better he could get nordost blue heaven!


 
 I have looked at all the cables now and i think i will go for the 20$ pyst cables if it isn't any big difference, $100 for cables is a bit to mutch...
 then i will ether go for the pyst usb cable or this ...http://www.mimic-cables.com/collections/sleeved-cables/products/custom-usb-cable.
 Then i have all i need right ?

 anyways thanks for your help


----------



## Sam21

Again, All USB and Optical cables function the same. Evergreens are definitely better than cheap "regular" analog cables.


----------



## Eeaeau

sam21 said:


> Again, All USB and Optical cables function the same. Evergreens are definitely better than cheap "regular" analog cables.


 
 what is "regular" analog cables then ?


----------



## Sam21

something like this
  
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MU3MMSRA-3-5mm-Right-Stereo/dp/B004G7O1PI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1400612414&sr=8-5&keywords=stereo+cable
  
 or this : 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/C2G-Cables-40465-Audio-Cable/dp/B0019MCI94/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1400612450&sr=8-5&keywords=rca+cable


----------



## Eeaeau

sam21 said:


> something like this
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MU3MMSRA-3-5mm-Right-Stereo/dp/B004G7O1PI/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1400612414&sr=8-5&keywords=stereo+cable
> 
> ...


 
 but the pyst rca cable will sound better then them right ?


----------



## Sam21

I suppose so ...


----------



## Evshrug

zombie_x said:


> I honestly don't think the Audioquest are worth $34. They are no better than $5 optical cables.
> 
> EDIT: Reworded post.





sam21 said:


> all Optical cables less than a certain length function the same ,  Analog cables are different.





eeaeau said:


> I have looked at all the cables now and i think i will go for the 20$ pyst cables if it isn't any big difference, $100 for cables is a bit to mutch...
> 
> then i will ether go for the pyst usb cable or this ...http://www.mimic-cables.com/collections/sleeved-cables/products/custom-usb-cable.
> 
> ...





There is so much audio hype-ology around cables. 
FWIR, as long as the DAC is receiving the red light from an Optical cable and can tell when said light is ON/off, that's all it needs. Over a long range, the energy (brightness) of an optical cable could be so weak that the DAC can't quite tell if it's on or off... but I haven't had to thread a cable that long. Optical only transmits on/off digital bits, so it either works or it doesn't.
USB is similar to optical, except it's slightly easier to pick up interference and get small errors, in normal usage there ought to be no difference in cables (besides aesthetic look).

Analogue cables like RCA connectors may actually have some truth to quality difference. They're like the power line that runs to your house, except the strength of the electric pulse determines how much your headphone driver vibrates, the analogue pulse moves the driver _this_ fast, _that_ far. An amp is like a transformer or power relay, boosting the power and allowing you to control the output, with really high input impedance to try and widen the gap between the music signal and random noise/hiss. Copper is a great electrical conductor, second only to Silver on the periodic table and more flexible and much cheaper, as long as there isn't any corrosion/rust from oxygen in it the signal will pass through. As long as a cable is insulated from external energy (coiled copper can act as an antenna or magnet), not bent/kinked (outer edge of bend becomes weak, possibly resulting in a poor conductive connection and eventually might break), and has a firm connection between plug and jack, the cable will carry great sound.

You need every piece of a sound system (some parts may be integrated with others), but the order of how much a component upgrade will affect the overall sound quality is headphone>digital file quality (Kbps, effects processing and such)>amp>DAC>cables/interconnects. All that is subject to diminishing returns as you go up in price, and all of it could be messed up if one piece is garbage/broken. For me, all my components are in the same room, and cables would be the LAST thing I'd upgrade since I think I've already hit the point of diminishing returns with my RadioShack RCA cables that don't have any defects or kinks. Someday I might upgrade my RCA cable, mostly just because the cheap plastic housing looks weird connected to my Schiit Bifrost Uber and Class-A SET tube amp, but since I couldn't hear a difference between a monster cable and these the upgrade is very low-priority.


----------



## Sam21

I think DACs and AMPs are equally important.


----------



## Murder Mike

eeaeau said:


> but the pyst rca cable will sound better then them right ?


 
  
 That's a whole can of worms that we're not going to open up here. If you want to know more, head over to the Sound Science section of the forums. I use these as RCA interconnects. I split them apart and they sound great. They are a bit stiff though.


----------



## martin vegas

eeaeau said:


> I have looked at all the cables now and i think i will go for the 20$ pyst cables if it isn't any big difference, $100 for cables is a bit to mutch...
> then i will ether go for the pyst usb cable or this ...http://www.mimic-cables.com/collections/sleeved-cables/products/custom-usb-cable.
> Then i have all i need right ?
> 
> anyways thanks for your help


 

 Just get the pyst ones and your good to go.. don't bother with that other usb cable mate, it won't be any better!


----------



## martin vegas

murder mike said:


> That's a whole can of worms that we're not going to open up here. If you want to know more, head over to the Sound Science section of the forums. I use these as RCA interconnects. I split them apart and they sound great. They are a bit stiff though.


 

 Sound science is a load of crap mate..if you have high end gear that costs thousands you will here a difference with better cables..nordost are the ones to get if you have the best of the best hifi gear but that's a different story!


----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> I think DACs and AMPs are equally important.



Sure! I just ordered them that way because my experience was that I hit the point of diminishing returns sooner with DACs than with amps. My $200 tube amp gave me a higher personal increase in enjoyment than the upgrade to my $400 DAC. Half of he time I don't even use the DAC, just the one built-in to my SB Omni.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Sound science is a load of crap mate...




Sometimes, certain members will just spout advice without giving any reason why. Most people ignore people that post like that though, anyway.

I'm thinking about returning my RadioShack RCA's and getting the much less expensive Monoprice ones Murder Mike linked, honestly I got the more expensive RS ones just because I had to get cables immediately to test out my DAC.

Right now, I see Mad is streaming, I'm gonna try to join him


----------



## conquerator2

+1 to what Evs said, I'd probably argue about the difference one can hear between a 256kbps MP3/AAC and a lossless file [FLAC, ALAC, WAV, etc...]
 But anything below 196kbps usually starts to sound inferior to higher bitrates...
 But the chain order is absolutely correct


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks Conq! I tried to take that into account by saying point of diminishing returns, but I didn't specify what that point would be since I know everyone's just a little different 
Seems Mad stopped streaming... Anyone wanna watch me be goofy with Gun Game for a bit?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Thanks Conq! I tried to take that into account by saying point of diminishing returns, but I didn't specify what that point would be since I know everyone's just a little different
> Seems Mad stopped streaming... *Anyone wanna watch me be goofy with Gun Game for a bit?*




No...


----------



## Evshrug

Damn.
Ok, so the PS4 controller has less background hiss than a Mixamp 5.8, still a little but you have to listen pretty hard with no audio playing, but I am at a huge disadvantage without surround.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Sometimes, certain members will just spout advice without giving any reason why. Most people ignore people that post like that though, anyway.
> 
> I'm thinking about returning my RadioShack RCA's and getting the much less expensive Monoprice ones Murder Mike linked, honestly I got the more expensive RS ones just because I had to get cables immediately to test out my DAC.
> 
> Right now, I see Mad is streaming, I'm gonna try to join him


 

 Don't know if this is a dig or what? the thing with audio cables is they carry the signal along and the better the signal the better the sound..all I was saying is if he gets the better schiit gear later on he could spend a bit more on cables.."Testing audiophile claims and myths" sound science is a load of tosh,only ever been to one head-fi meet and that was in new York, someone who was on that thread(won't say no names) had made a pair of balanced headphone cables and they sounded worse than the stock cables(not balanced) that came with the hd800s(laughable) I wouldn't take any advice off any of them ever, even at gun point..for my arcam rdac I have just got not very expensive Cambridge audio rca cables and optical cable, on my gaming pc with pioneer susano with s81 8.2 speaker set up i have chord company sarum speaker cable and tuned aray rca!


----------



## Silent Xaxal

Does anyone here have any experience with the HD8 DJ/HD7 DJ in gaming?


----------



## Zombie_X

martin vegas said:


> Audiophile grade audioquest start with the diamond backs..anything below that is not really worth bothering about(won't be any different to the $20 pyst cables)..he could get the pyst usb cable and later on if he wants something better he could get nordost blue heaven!


 
  
 I wan't arguing about analog cables, I jsut think getting digital only cables from Audioquest are a waste of money. Analog cables always will have some impact on the sound. It's up to the person buying the stuff to decide whether they want to or not.
  
 If you guys are looking for great cables for cheap, look at Belkin Pure AV cables. They easily sound like $100 cables and are like $10.


----------



## ROK1

Looking for something under $200 canadian for general gaming and occasional music. I have no amp/dac and use the realtek on my mobo. Currently looking at HD 558s, AD-700x and the Bayerdynamic COP. Any suggestions for a canadian whoose looking to buy new?


----------



## Evshrug

Silent, honestly i dont, what brand are those?

Martin,
My first paragraph was referring to some of the people in the sound science forums... There's lots of people there giving advice, I just sort through the noise by looking for people who can suggest a logical reason/explanation behind their advice. Audio has a lot of confusing things and misinformation around it.

I wasn't talking about you directly, trying to burn you, but I guess you could take it as a suggestion to help grow respectability.


----------



## tmaxx123

I hope the modmic 4.0 is good, because I just bought myself one to use with my ath-a900x. If it works well together I will be be forced to sell my beyerdynamic mmx 300. will be a sad day, because I love that headset, but i can't have too many headphones laying around.


----------



## kh600rr

Hey guys, can someone recommend a good pair of gaming headphones? I just got the Xonar U7, running it through my Sager Laptop. Looking for a good surrond sound experience. Also downloaded Razer surround sound. I play tons of FPS.. Thanks guys...


----------



## Change is Good

kh600rr said:


> Hey guys, can someone recommend a good pair of gaming headphones? I just got the Xonar U7, running it through my Sager Laptop. Looking for a good surrond sound experience. Also downloaded Razer surround sound. I play tons of FPS.. Thanks guys...


 
  
 Have you tried reading through the front page?


----------



## kh600rr

change is good said:


> Have you tried reading through the front page?


 
No, Because I'm stupid.. Thanks...


----------



## Change is Good

kh600rr said:


> No, Because I'm stupid.. Thanks...


 
  
 Hey, you said it... not me...


----------



## Sam21

rok1 said:


> Looking for something under $200 canadian for general gaming and occasional music. I have no amp/dac and use the realtek on my mobo. Currently looking at HD 558s, AD-700x and the Bayerdynamic COP. Any suggestions for a canadian whoose looking to buy new?


 
  
 for competitive gaming only get the 558 and there is a mod to make it sound like the 598.
  
 For fun and competitive gaming get the Fidelio x1 which is of course more expensive. With the Fidelio X1 you get a detachable cable which enables you to use the V-Moda boompro...so basically you have a headset...


----------



## ROK1

sam21 said:


> for competitive gaming only get the 558 and there is a mod to make it sound like the 598.
> 
> For fun and competitive gaming get the Fidelio x1 which is of course more expensive. With the Fidelio X1 you get a detachable cable which enables you to use the V-Moda boompro...so basically you have a headset...


 
  
 I can't seem to find the Philips Fidelio in any Canadian retailers for under $400. I'm on a pretty tight budget of $200 CAD.
  
 I'm not competitive at all and rather something with some bass. I'm really leaning towards either the COPs or HyperX cloud headset as I wouldn't mind save some money. I'm coming from being generally disappointed with gaming on my pair of ATH-M50x (being sent back for a refund).


----------



## Change is Good

rok1 said:


> I can't seem to find the Philips Fidelio in any Canadian retailers for under $400. I'm on a pretty tight budget of $200 CAD.
> 
> I'm not competitive at all and rather something with some bass. I'm really leaning towards either the COPs or HyperX cloud headset as I wouldn't mind save some money. I'm coming from being generally disappointed with gaming on my pair of ATH-M50x (being sent back for a refund).


 
  
 I would post a wanted ad in the classifieds, or matter fact just check the classifieds and see if there are any being sold...
  
 Most people will ship to Canada if buyer covers the shipping costs...


----------



## ROK1

change is good said:


> I would post a wanted ad in the classifieds, or matter fact just check the classifieds and see if there are any being sold...
> 
> Most people will ship to Canada if buyer covers the shipping costs...


 

 I'm not really intrested in buying used, especially from the states (exchange rate through paypal is +16-17%, and shipping is usually $30 so it ends out costing a bunch).


----------



## Evshrug

rok1 said:


> I'm not really intrested in buying used, especially from the states (exchange rate through paypal is +16-17%, and shipping is usually $30 so it ends out costing a bunch).




As long as you understand that the exchange rate is not a fee, but just the fact that the American dollar holds more value than the Canadian dollar, then yes sometimes shipping between countries can add expense. However, there can be more selection, greater value, and possibly still a lower overall price than buying from a local brick-and-mortar store.

The Beyer COP is decent, I haven't heard of the hyperX cloud (sounds like a cheap headset with a price boosted/inflated by gaming marketing). Is your heart set on a closed headphone?


----------



## ROK1

evshrug said:


> As long as you understand that the exchange rate is not a fee, but just the fact that the American dollar holds more value than the Canadian dollar, then yes sometimes shipping between countries can add expense. However, there can be more selection, greater value, and possibly still a lower overall price than buying from a local brick-and-mortar store.
> 
> The Beyer COP is decent, I haven't heard of the hyperX cloud (sounds like a cheap headset with a price boosted/inflated by gaming marketing). Is your heart set on a closed headphone?


 

 I understand the exchange rate isn't a fee (although paypal tacks on ~6% ontop of the exchange rate of 11%) but recognise it as an additional cost. I'm not partial to brick-and-mortar, but rather the idea of ordering within Canada (incl online stores) because Canada Post in my area tends to break things and takes 6-9 months to process an insurance claim.
  
 The HyperX cloud is supposed to be made by qpad and use beyerdynamic technology, Logan from Teksyndicate gave it a pretty good review. I'm not sure about his credibility but it (seems) like a good contender especially considering it's only $100 CAD.
  
 I'm coming from (returned) ATH-M50s and I'm looking for similar bass as well as a larger soundstage as I find my m50s to be just as good as my monster turbine earbuds for gaming. I'm not sure how the COPs stack up to the m50s but would rather them regardless because i tend to break headphone cables


----------



## J1nKZ

Ok I've been using akgk701 for last few years with xbox and ps3 going through a onkyo reciever, I've never had any problems I've loved those headphones, but after reading reviews on here I recently bought.a pair of akg k712 headphones and also a mixamp, I was planning on buying another amp to hook up between mixamp and headphones but as of right now there's not much difference between my reciever sound and the mixamp on its own sound. 
Ok so here's my question, does the mixamp on its own drive the akg k712's ok? How much of a difference (if any) will using a different amp with mixamp? I don't know if I've just been underpowering my headphones all this time or if I'm already getting the best I can get as it is, please someone enlighten me and also if I'm actually gonna get a better sound using a amp between mixamp and k712 what amps are recommended for best sound, I don't care about price I just wanna know the facts, how am I gonna get the absolute best sound I can get from my 712's from ps3? How much difference between mixamp on its own and mixamp to amp then headphones? Also I forgot to mention, mic isn't important to me only sound quality,thanks for any and all responses that help me


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.twitch.tv/ignlive


----------



## J1nKZ

Can anyone tell me what if any are the differences between sound from a reciever and sound from a mixamp and desktop? I'm not talking about surround sound I just mean sound quality, I've been using akg K701's and k712's with a reciever with the sane results as with mixamp, is there gonna be a improvement with mixamp and desktop? With the reciever and with mixamp on its own I can turn up volume really high it's not quiet at all but the louder the more distorted it gets, will the addition of a desktop amp give me more volume without distorting? Or just more volume? I kinda need.to know as I dint wanna buy another amp unless it's actually gonna make a difference


----------



## Silent Xaxal

silent xaxal said:


> Does anyone here have any experience with the HD8 DJ/HD7 DJ in gaming?


 
 Anyone?


----------



## martin vegas

silent xaxal said:


> Anyone?


 

 I think the hd6 mix would be better for gaming..the other two might drown things out with the bass but not 100% sure..read about them but i have never heard any of them yet!


----------



## J1nKZ

j1nkz said:


> Can anyone tell me what if any are the differences between sound from a reciever and sound from a mixamp and desktop? I'm not talking about surround sound I just mean sound quality, I've been using akg K701's and k712's with a reciever with the sane results as with mixamp, is there gonna be a improvement with mixamp and desktop? With the reciever and with mixamp on its own I can turn up volume really high it's not quiet at all but the louder the more distorted it gets, will the addition of a desktop amp give me more volume without distorting? Or just more volume? I kinda need.to know as I dint wanna buy another amp unless it's actually gonna make a difference




Anyone?


----------



## jaysins

I have the 712's, mixamp and a dedicated amp as well which makes for one long mess in the living room that the girlfriend does not approve of. The mixamp provides a decent amount of hiss at higher volumes, which it needs to be pretty cranked with these headphones so there is that little distraction going on. Also, you do lose a bit of the range and clarity with it as opposed to having a dedicated amp. It'll certainly be better than nothing and still good for games, but you will get a decently better audio experience for games with the dedicated amp. If you're listening to music and such though I'd say the amp is much more important than when gaming.


----------



## MrShooter79

any plan of adding Sennheiser GAME ONE
  
 Thanks


----------



## J1nKZ

mrshooter79 said:


> any plan of adding Sennheiser GAME ONE
> 
> 
> Thanks



I bought them to try and sent them back within a week, I'm used to the soundstage of the K701's though so kind of totally different, if it's for the mic then yes but if it's to hear players movements or weapon spawns etc then I'd go for something wider than the g4me one's, for me anyway


----------



## J1nKZ

jaysins said:


> I have the 712's, mixamp and a dedicated amp as well which makes for one long mess in the living room that the girlfriend does not approve of. The mixamp provides a decent amount of hiss at higher volumes, which it needs to be pretty cranked with these headphones so there is that little distraction going on. Also, you do lose a bit of the range and clarity with it as opposed to having a dedicated amp. It'll certainly be better than nothing and still good for games, but you will get a decently better audio experience for games with the dedicated amp. If you're listening to music and such though I'd say the amp is much more important than when gaming.



Thank you for reply, I've been waiting a while to hear back from anyone who could tell me difference in sound with 712's and mixamp and desktop, thanks again


----------



## MrShooter79

j1nkz said:


> I bought them to try and sent them back within a week, I'm used to the soundstage of the K701's though so kind of totally different, if it's for the mic then yes but if it's to hear players movements or weapon spawns etc then I'd go for something wider than the g4me one's, for me anyway


 
 Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

Well, I picked up a Mixamp 5.8 on ebay for $40 shipped.  Compared to my Recond3D:
  
  - The wireless is obviously super duper convenient.  There's still a little bundle of wires on the couch next to me, but it's way more manageable than a 20-ft cable going across the room that needs to be assembled before and put away after every gaming session.
  - It's much easier to balance game/chat volumes.  Like... *MUCH *easier.
  - It's got that sucky DH "I'm calling you from the bathroom" reverb effect in chat.
  - I personally don't find the surround cues to be as effective as the THX on the Recon.
  - I don't hear any difference in background hiss.  To be fair, I do have some minor tinnitus and so it may be there but I just can't hear it.
  - It just seems to work.  I was having issues with the Recon where chat was not coming through correctly sometimes (Xbone would autodetect and send chat audio through the controller).  No such issue on the Mixamp so far.
  
 Overall, despite the bathroom effect and the subpar DH surround, I like it a lot better.  I'm glad I have the E11 to pair with it, as it needs to be cranked pretty high with the Q701's.  I suspect my Recon will be on the classifieds here in short order, but I'm going to continue testing it for a bit.
  
 Now, as soon as @Zombie_X finishes his mini-XLR->3.5mm adapter, I'll be able to use the Boompro with the Q701.  That'll eliminate one mic cable and one Y adapter from the bundle of cables in my lap.  I'll braid out the excess length and I think I'll be pretty set for gaming on the console.


----------



## DADDYDC650

After months of owning the Philips X1 with BoomPro along with the Astro 5.1 mixamp, I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather connect my headphones directly into the PS4/XB1 controller.  A lot more convenient.


----------



## Stillhart

daddydc650 said:


> After months of owning the Philips X1 with BoomPro along with the Astro 5.1 mixamp, I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather connect my headphones directly into the PS4/XB1 controller.  A lot more convenient.


 
 I assume you meant the 5.8?  Out of curiosity, are you playing shooters?  If you're not playing CoD or Titanfall or something like that, the virtual surround isn't going to add a whole lot to your experience.  I'm still holding out hope that the consoles will start outputting virtual surround through the controllers without need for a separate Mixamp (etc) so we can get the best of both worlds.


----------



## grumpy1471

daddydc650 said:


> After months of owning the Philips X1 with BoomPro along with the Astro 5.1 mixamp, I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather connect my headphones directly into the PS4/XB1 controller.  A lot more convenient.




I'm also curious as to what types of games you play. A good majority of the games I play (fps, RPG, racing) benefit from the surround sound and I just cannot stand stereo for gaming anymore. I was worried about convenience when I got my K712s as I would have to use an amp and a clip on mic. After I got the headphones, however, I realized that the amazing sound quality and immersiveness was well worth the inconvenience.


----------



## DADDYDC650

I play shooters, racing and adventure games. The difference in sound isn't big enough for me to bother using the 5.8 mixamp most of the time.


----------



## Stillhart

daddydc650 said:


> I play shooters, racing and adventure games. The difference in sound isn't big enough for me to bother using the 5.8 mixamp most of the time.


 
  
 Well... on the plus side, you can sell that 5.8 for some good money since they're so hard to find these days.
  
 One more random question:  have you tried any of those videos that compare the different surround processing techs?  I find the THX on the Recon to be noticeably better than the DH on the Mixamp.  You might have the same thing... of course the Recon is a big PITA to use too, but it really does sound better to me (and others on here).


----------



## grumpy1471

daddydc650 said:


> I play shooters, racing and adventure games. The difference in sound isn't big enough for me to bother using the 5.8 mixamp most of the time.




The difference is night and day when the surround is turned on with the Mixamp. I'd have to ask if you have it set up correctly if you can't hear much of a difference. The DS4 headphone jack is good on convenience but is horrible for gaming because you simply cannot accurately hear which direction the sound is coming from. It's either coming from the left area or right area with stereo.


----------



## DADDYDC650

grumpy1471 said:


> The difference is night and day when the surround is turned on with the Mixamp. I'd have to ask if you have it set up correctly if you can't hear much of a difference. The DS4 headphone jack is good on convenience but is horrible for gaming because you simply cannot accurately hear which direction the sound is coming from. It's either coming from the left area or right area with stereo.


I don't think there's a huge differences and yes, it's connected properly.


----------



## grumpy1471

daddydc650 said:


> I don't think there's a huge differences and yes, it's connected properly.




Okay. To each his own. I agree with Stillhart though. Watch the video of the different types of surround and see if it really does sound different to your ears. I can hear the difference so I guess I'm just surprised when others can't.


----------



## DADDYDC650

grumpy1471 said:


> Okay. To each his own. I agree with Stillhart though. Watch the video of the different types of surround and see if it really does sound different to your ears. I can hear the difference so I guess I'm just surprised when others can't.


 
 I saw that video awhile ago and I didn't notice any big differences.


----------



## conquerator2

Perhaps it doesn't work for anyone.
I personally think DSPs are essential for a great gaming experience but as you said, to each his own.


----------



## hallonpaj

I was thinking of getting a pair of Sennheiser 598 or pc 360. Will that be a big improvement on my Sennheiser RS180 or just a waste of money?


----------



## martin vegas

hallonpaj said:


> I was thinking of getting a pair of Sennheiser 598 or pc 360. Will that be a big improvement on my Sennheiser RS180 or just a waste of money?


 

 You can get the pc363d with dolby headphone instead of the rs180 hallonpaj!


----------



## hallonpaj

martin vegas said:


> You can get the pc363d with dolby headphone instead of the rs180 hallonpaj!


 
 I forgot to mention that I also have a Dacmagic plus. So Im not sure what would be best. PC360 with some dolbyheadphone soundcardand Dacmagic or PC363 with Dolby headphone. With PC363 i wount be able to use the Dac or amp?


----------



## martin vegas

hallonpaj said:


> I forgot to mention that I also have a Dacmagic plus. So Im not sure what would be best. PC360 with some dolbyheadphone soundcardand Dacmagic or PC363 with Dolby headphone. With PC363 i wount be able to use the Dac or amp?


 

 I use my sennheiser u320s with a arcam r dac over rca..optical out from ps4 to arcam r dac then rca to headset.. you won't be able to use anything with dolby headphone with your dacmagic!


----------



## hallonpaj

martin vegas said:


> I use my sennheiser u320s with a arcam r dac over rca..optical out from ps4 to arcam r dac then rca to headset.. you won't be able to use anything with dolby headphone with your dacmagic!


 

 From what I understood I can use Toslink from a Dolby headphone soundcard into my dacmagic then headphones and benefit both Dolby headphone from soundcard and sound from dac?


----------



## conquerator2

hallonpaj said:


> From what I understood I can use Toslink from a Dolby headphone soundcard into my dacmagic then headphones and benefit both Dolby headphone from soundcard and sound from dac?




Very few soundcard allow this (like Xonar U3) and it's PC exclusive. There's no device on consoles that allows it.


----------



## hallonpaj

conquerator2 said:


> Very few soundcard allow this (like Xonar U3) and it's PC exclusive. There's no device on consoles that allows it.


 

 Ofcourse I play on a PC =) why would you need good sound on a console? No real servers and everything lags anyway. Doesnt real matter if the sound is correct.
 You cant do that with a soundblaster soundcard? only asus versions?


----------



## conquerator2

hallonpaj said:


> Ofcourse I play on a PC =) why would you need good sound on a console? No real servers and everything lags anyway. Doesnt real matter if the sound is correct.
> You cant do that with a soundblaster soundcard? only asus versions?




I don't know what other soundcard support it.
I also completely disagree with your console statement and sound totally matters...


----------



## hallonpaj

conquerator2 said:


> I don't know what other soundcard support it.
> I also completely disagree with your console statement and sound totally matters...


 

 I dont know how it is now but when i played console there were no servers. One player hosted the game, and that was the only one not lagging. Could get killed behind walls etc but in reality on his screen you werent behind the wall. But I didnt come here to bash consoles, im sorry.
  
 Has anyone tried PC363 and PC360 + soundcard and amp?


----------



## martin vegas

hallonpaj said:


> I dont know how it is now but when i played console there were no servers. One player hosted the game, and that was the only one not lagging. Could get killed behind walls etc but in reality on his screen you werent behind the wall. But I didnt come here to bash consoles, im sorry.
> 
> Has anyone tried PC363 and PC360 + soundcard and amp?


 

 I have a gaming pc with two 7990s with pioneer susano with s81 8.2 surround speakers and a 84 inch sony 4k tv built for battlefield only and a ps4 i use with a 24 inch monitor and arcam r dac with sennheiser u320s mate.. if you want the gaming headset for bf4 get the pc363 but I doubt that you will be able to use your dacmagic but not 100% sure on that!


----------



## hallonpaj

martin vegas said:


> I have a gaming pc with two 7990s with pioneer susano with s81 8.2 surround speakers and a 84 inch sony 4k tv built for battlefield only and a ps4 i use with a 24 inch monitor and arcam r dac with sennheiser u320s mate.. if you want the gaming headset for bf4 get the pc363 but I doubt that you will be able to use your dacmagic but not 100% sure on that!


I already have a pair of rs180, feels like u320 would be a downgrade?


----------



## martin vegas

hallonpaj said:


> I already have a pair of rs180, feels like u320 would be a downgrade?


 

 Get the pc363 then..you need the dolby headphone for fps shooters really anyway..they are £206 from amazon!


----------



## Murder Mike

hallonpaj said:


> I already have a pair of rs180, feels like u320 would be a downgrade?


 
 What's your budget and what do you have available? Also, what sound card are you using?


----------



## Viceroy

Ignoring comfort, requiring amp, etc.
 What is THE headphone for detail whoring, specifically footsteps?
  
 Are the differences between the AD700(X), Q701, K701/K702 easily noticeable?


----------



## Stillhart

viceroy said:


> Ignoring comfort, requiring amp, etc.
> What is THE headphone for detail whoring, specifically footsteps?
> 
> Are the differences between the AD700(X), Q701, K701/K702 easily noticeable?


 
 Right on the first post of this thread there's a top 10 list of headphones for "competitive gaming".  That's what you're looking for.


----------



## chicolom

FYI, Battlefield 3 is *FREE* on PC this week.


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> FYI, Battlefield 3 is *FREE* on PC this week.


 
  
 Maybe I should finally install my copy and give it a play this week.
  
 Buuuuuut I do have Elder Scrolls Online and Watch Dogs to play. And Assassin's Creed 4. And Thief. And...


----------



## grumpy1471

axelcloris said:


> Maybe I should finally install my copy and give it a play this week.
> 
> Buuuuuut I do have Elder Scrolls Online and Watch Dogs to play. And Assassin's Creed 4. And Thief. And..


 
 Do you have a huge backlog of games like I do? I have TONS of unfinished games and it's keeping me from buying Watch Dogs and Thief and Infamous and... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I use a cool website called Backloggery and it's quite handy for when I don't know which games to play or when I want to remind myself of the mountain of games I spent money on and never touched


----------



## AxelCloris

grumpy1471 said:


> Do you have a huge backlog of games like I do? I have TONS of unfinished games and it's keeping me from buying Watch Dogs and Thief and Infamous and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a backlog of games that I need to review, and then I have a backlog of games that I want to play. The games that I get from developers for review take priority, then I'll get some time to play games on my own. Playing through the pre-released Mac client for the game The Bridge. The game itself has been out for a while but they wanted a tester for the Mac version and another review for their list.
  
 tl;dr Yes I have one hell of a backlog.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I have a backlog of games that I need to review, and then I have a backlog of games that I want to play. The games that I get from developers for review take priority, then I'll get some time to play games on my own. Playing through the pre-released Mac client for the game The Bridge. The game itself has been out for a while but they wanted a tester for the Mac version and another review for their list.
> 
> tl;dr Yes I have one hell of a backlog.




Have you had any time with the loaners, yet? I know you mentioned the work week has been hectic... but maybe once you get some time you can spend some on your backlog. I'm not sure how good ESO audio is, but it would be interesting what you think about the K612 and K712 on it.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Have you had any time with the loaners, yet? I know you mentioned the work week has been hectic... but maybe once you get some time you can spend some on your backlog. I'm not sure how good ESO audio is, but it would be interesting what you think about the K612 and K712 on it.


 
  
 If all goes well, I can get some time with them after work tonight. I won't be gaming; instead I'll be writing, so I'll have music playing as well. Helps me concentrate.


----------



## NamelessPFG

hallonpaj said:


> You cant do that with a soundblaster soundcard? only asus versions?


 
  
 Creative cards do pipe their headphone surround (CMSS-3D Headphone or SBX Pro Surround, depending on model) through TOSlink/optical, actually. Verified it myself.
  
 Whether you prefer either of those to Dolby Headphone or not is another matter, and one you'll have to decide for yourself.


----------



## hallonpaj

murder mike said:


> What's your budget and what do you have available? Also, what sound card are you using?


 dacmagic plus with sennheiser rs180 and no soundcard. I'm lacking positioning and some details.


----------



## GrdironTrenches

After looking through this thread im thinking about grabbing the AKG 712. I tried hooking up the Schiit Asgard through the astro 2013 mixamp with the astro headset and then denon d5000. both had crazy amounts of static noise. it was unbearable. now ive heard about the E9, schiit magni and the vali are good for ps4 + mixamp + k712, but what about the hiss? would it be as bad with the Asgard or would mixamp alone be the better option


----------



## grumpy1471

grdirontrenches said:


> After looking through this thread im thinking about grabbing the AKG 712. I tried hooking up the Schiit Asgard through the astro 2013 mixamp with the astro headset and then denon d5000. both had crazy amounts of static noise. it was unbearable. now ive heard about the E9, schiit magni and the vali are good for ps4 + mixamp + k712, but what about the hiss? would it be as bad with the Asgard or would mixamp alone be the better option




I find the Mixamp to be hissy in general. When using just the Mixamp without my Vali, I have to turn it up to around max volume and there's a significant amount of hiss. When I add in the Vali, I can get the volumes that I want but it doesn't reduce the hiss at all. 

When I use my Vali with my Omni, however, there's next to no hiss. An amp will just amplify whatever signal is going through it. If you have a hissy source, the amp will increase the volumes coming from the source thus increasing the hiss along with it. 

I find that the PS4 has a lower volume output through optical than my Xbox 360. This definitely contributes to the hiss as I have to crank up the volumes.

In the end, you'll have to switch out the source (the Mixamp) to avoid the hiss. I would highly recommend keeping the amp in the chain as the Mixamp seems to make highs harsh and make the bass a little less controlled (this improved with my Vali).

tl;dr Hiss is unavoidable with the K712 and the Mixamp. Keep your amp as it won't cause much (if any) extra hiss.


----------



## conquerator2

grumpy1471 said:


> I find the Mixamp to be hissy in general. When using just the Mixamp without my Vali, I have to turn it up to around max volume and there's a significant amount of hiss. When I add in the Vali, I can get the volumes that I want but it doesn't reduce the hiss at all.
> 
> When I use my Vali with my Omni, however, there's next to no hiss. An amp will just amplify whatever signal is going through it. If you have a hissy source, the amp will increase the volumes coming from the source thus increasing the hiss along with it.
> 
> ...




Pretty much. If anything it'll allow the Mixamp to be turned less loud thereby reducing the hiss.


----------



## gaz552

Great thread/guide.
  
 Have you (or anyone else) had the opportunity to test the V-Moda XS, and try it out for gaming?
  
 I'm currently looking for a set of closed back on-ear headphones for gaming and general listening.
 (Around ear headphones can give me discomfort/pain due to it touching the glands below the ears, and I use my headphones/game in the same room as the tv so I need closed back so I don't disturb the wife watching tv and vice versa)
  
 A few options have caught my eye, the RHA SA950i, Musical Fidelity MF100 and the V-Moda XS (really like the look of this headphone plus a boompro makes it a headset when I need it too).


----------



## GrdironTrenches

grumpy1471 said:


> I find the Mixamp to be hissy in general. When using just the Mixamp without my Vali, I have to turn it up to around max volume and there's a significant amount of hiss. When I add in the Vali, I can get the volumes that I want but it doesn't reduce the hiss at all.
> 
> When I use my Vali with my Omni, however, there's next to no hiss. An amp will just amplify whatever signal is going through it. If you have a hissy source, the amp will increase the volumes coming from the source thus increasing the hiss along with it.
> 
> ...


 

 so whats a good astro mixamp replacement? id like to find a amp to go with the astro replacement as the asgard is wired to my PC, that would be later on down the line though


----------



## grumpy1471

grdirontrenches said:


> so whats a good astro mixamp replacement? id like to find a amp to go with the astro replacement as the asgard is wired to my PC, that would be later on down the line though




You could take a look at the first page of the thread and compare the different ones if you want. The Mixamp 2011 as well as the Recon3D are supposed to have less hiss but I have no experience with anything other than the Mixamp 2013 and the Omni. Stillhart did a comparison of the Mixamp 5.8 (which is supposed to have as much hiss as the 2013) and the Recon3D a couple of pages back.


----------



## dakanao

What amp/DAC do you guys recommend for the AKG K712 if I want more bass while still being very lively sounding?


----------



## GrdironTrenches

thanks for answering my questions


----------



## Murder Mike

hallonpaj said:


> dacmagic plus with sennheiser rs180 and no soundcard. I'm lacking positioning and some details.


 
  
 What's your budget? Do you have the K612 Pro available? You could pick up a basic sound card and hook it up to your DACMagic Plus. It could easily drive the K612 and would probably be better than the HD598 or PC360 (or other variants).


----------



## conquerator2

Any experience with the Compass2 for gaming?
 I reckon MLE owned it for quite some time.
 I purchased the C2 [ESS9018] to go with my upcoming HE-560 to replace my Matrix Mstage for general purpose listening - games, songs and movies.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Maybe I should finally install my copy and give it a play this week.
> 
> Buuuuuut I do have Elder Scrolls Online and Watch Dogs to play. And Assassin's Creed 4. And Thief. And...



I had the last two days off work, was streaming Watchdogs which I find quite fun. Stillhart was rofl-ing because there is a mobile app that allows him to invade my game and mess me up, lol.





viceroy said:


> Ignoring comfort, requiring amp, etc.
> What is THE headphone for detail whoring, specifically footsteps?
> 
> Are the differences between the AD700(X), Q701, K701/K702 easily noticeable?



Differences in detail are negligible with these. Tonally, they are different, but they're basically the same in detail and the AKGs have nearly the same soundstage.





grumpy1471 said:


> You could take a look at the first page of the thread and compare the different ones if you want. The Mixamp 2011 as well as the Recon3D are supposed to have less hiss but I have no experience with anything other than the Mixamp 2013 and the Omni. Stillhart did a comparison of the Mixamp 5.8 (which is supposed to have as much hiss as the 2013) and the Recon3D a couple of pages back.



He mentioned the differences, he has a Recon3D (2 actually), but I think he was basing that comparison off of what Mad and I have said about our experiences with the 5.8. The hiss is noticeable, but not too intrusive.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Any experience with the Compass2 for gaming?
> I reckon MLE owned it for quite some time.
> I purchased the C2 [ESS9018] to go with my upcoming HE-560 to replace my Matrix Mstage for general purpose listening - games, songs and movies.


 

 I have a 15.32 (Wolfson DAC) coming tomorrow that I'll be testing against my M-stage.  I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on how the Sabre DAC in there sounds compared to the M-stage.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> I have a 15.32 (Wolfson DAC) coming tomorrow that I'll be testing against my M-stage.  I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on how the Sabre DAC in there sounds compared to the M-stage.




Will do, if the Mstage is still on hand by then


----------



## Change is Good

I am absolutely loving the HP200. Nice wide soundstage, precise detail and imaging, and a neutral tone with great extension. My K612 is going to have a tough time, I believe, matching up against it. The only thing I assume the K612 would be better at would be the soundstage, but not by much...
  
 We'll see when the K612 returns. Might just write a "K612 vs HP200" review...


----------



## conquerator2

^ sure do


----------



## Jedipottsy

Hi guys,
  
 Great thread. I'm looking to upgrade my headphones from the samson SR-850 to something better, can you guys give me some advice please?
 I mainly game with these headphones with occasional music listening.
  
 Im using a soundblaster z pci-e card and i prefer the SBX over DH personally.
  
 I'm looking to spend around £150 and it seems my options are
 AD700x, K702, HD598 and possibly Q701 however they are a little out of my price range and ive heard i'd also need a decent amp to power them well.
  
 I'm leaning towards the AD700x because i really dont care about bass and they dont require an amp. My question is how do the K702 and HD598 compare? I.e. is positional accuracy between all three negligable? In that case ive heard the K702 and HD598 give better overall sound?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

jedipottsy said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Great thread. I'm looking to upgrade my headphones from the samson SR-850 to something better, can you guys give me some advice please?
> I mainly game with these headphones with occasional music listening.
> ...


 
  
 You'll be happy with any of those 4 headphones, I'm sure.
  
 The K702 and the Q701 will both require amping to get the best sound out of them, but they don't sound BAD out of a SBZ.  You definitely don't _need _the amping from the SBZ as much as you would with the Mixamp on a console; I need to have my Mixamp almost maxed with my Q701 and I've got plenty of headroom with my Omni (same as the Z but USB).
  
 Or to put it another way, if you're using a Mixamp to drive the AKG's, you'll need an amp simply to get adequate volume levels.  If you're using a Sound Blaster, you'll be fine on volume levels.  If you want the headphones to sound even better (for music), you can add an amp and it will improve the sound.
  
 Personally, I've never heard the HD598 or the AD700 so I can't speak to how they sound from experience.  But based on what I've read, all 4 of those headphones will be great for gaming.  I use my Q's for listening to music also and I absolutely love them.  I don't think I've ever read about people using the HD598 or AD700 for pure music listening pleasure.
  
 As always, opinions are like a-holes:  everyone has one and they all stink.  I'm sure you will find plenty of people who disagree with mine so take it for what it's worth.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> You'll be happy with any of those 4 headphones, I'm sure.
> 
> The K702 and the Q701 will both require amping to get the best sound out of them, but they don't sound BAD out of a SBZ.  You definitely don't _need _the amping from the SBZ as much as you would with the Mixamp on a console; I need to have my Mixamp almost maxed with my Q701 and I've got plenty of headroom with my Omni (same as the Z but USB).
> 
> ...


 
  
 No. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Either of mine smells of violets 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 The rest of the post is correct


----------



## Evshrug

I mostly agree with Stillhart and like the way he phrased the "amping requirement." Upgrading your headphone is an immediate benefit, getting a good amp is another sound upgrade that polishes off the sound.

I had the AD700 for 3 years before I got the Q701. I did use it for music, the detail and soundstage were their own brand of fun (guests who tried them usually said something like "Woah! They sound like speakers!"). I think the AD700 has good mids and a bit bright treble spike (this helps detail and soundstage), but the extension into sub-bass and high trebles tapers off in volume and overall the headphone sounds pretty lean. I liked that for FPS games and some music genres (pop, some rock, folk/acoustic, jazz, classical), but my listening experience wasn't as emotional and involving as with my Q's and I'd wager most people would like bigger bass. It was also very lightweight with low clamping pressure so I found them very comfortable (once I bent the headband till the Earpads laid flat against my ears).

The K612 is almost the same price as a new AD700x, basically you'd hear as much detail but a bit less soundstage, much more firm sub-bass extension, very balanced while I also found it fun. You would need to crank up the volume a bit more, but the SB Z should be okay (but like all higher-end headphones, a dedicated amp civilizes and refines the sound while giving the bass a firmer body).


----------



## Brick3

Does anyone have experience with *ultrasone hifi 2400*? What are the general characteristics of it?
 A friend of mine offered to exchange it with my *fidelio x1*.
*2400 *is also quite bassy for an open can as far as i know which resembles *fidelio x1*  but other than that how would you compare these two especially the mids, which one is more intimate sounding?
 Would you suggest swapping or should i keep the x1?
 Thank in advance.


----------



## conquerator2

brick3 said:


> Does anyone have experience with *ultrasone hifi 2400*? What are the general characteristics of it?
> A friend of mine offered to exchange it with my *fidelio x1*.
> *2400* is also quite bassy for an open can as far as i know which resembles *fidelio x1*  but other than that how would you compare these two especially the mids, which one is more intimate sounding?
> Would you suggest swapping or should i keep the x1?
> Thank in advance.




X1 is the better headphone almost certainly.
While Ultrasone's lower headphones are okay, they're usually a bit overpriced for what they're IMO. And most of their high end models are just ridiculously priced.
I'd not accept that exchange...


----------



## randir14

My DT990's have stopped playing sound in one ear. Anyone have a suggestion for a general use/gaming headphone in the $100-$250 range? It would be paired with a Creative Titanium HD and Schiit Magni. I liked the bass and "movie theater"-like sound of the DT990, so preferably something similar.


----------



## Change is Good

randir14 said:


> My DT990's have stopped playing sound in one ear. Anyone have a suggestion for a general use/gaming headphone in the $100-$250 range? It would be paired with a Creative Titanium HD and Schiit Magni. I liked the bass and "movie theater"-like sound of the DT990, so preferably something similar.


 
  
 Fidelio X1


----------



## randir14

change is good said:


> Fidelio X1


 
  
 Thanks


----------



## gaz552

Has anyone tried the V-Moda XS for some gaming?  (As I said in my last post I know open backed around ear headphones would be best but that's not what I'm after/need)
  
 Failing that anyone tried the Musical Fidelity MF100's for some gaming?


----------



## AxelCloris

gaz552 said:


> Has anyone tried the V-Moda XS for some gaming?  (As I said in my last post I know open backed around ear headphones would be best but that's not what I'm after/need)
> 
> Failing that anyone tried the Musical Fidelity MF100's for some gaming?


 
  
 RE: XS. They sound good for gaming. Smaller soundstage than I'd prefer but it's still decent for on-ears. They sound nice and work with surround processing. My issue is that they put too much pressure on the helix of my ears and caused discomfort after a couple of hours. I do wear glasses, so there's that. I'll be putting mine on the FS thread soon. I procrastinated too long and didn't return them to V-Moda in time.


----------



## gaz552

axelcloris said:


> RE: XS. They sound good for gaming. Smaller soundstage than I'd prefer but it's still decent for on-ears. They sound nice and work with surround processing. My issue is that they put too much pressure on the helix of my ears and caused discomfort after a couple of hours. I do wear glasses, so there's that. I'll be putting mine on the FS thread soon. I procrastinated too long and didn't return them to V-Moda in time.


 
  
 Thanks that's good info.
 One thing I don't really like about headphones with leather pads is the suction/vacuum/pressure you can sometimes get when you put them on (probably why I usually prefer velour or alcantara pads), but I don't seem to get that with all headphones so it's kinda 'pot luck' lol.


----------



## Change is Good

You may can replace the VMODA XS pads with some Momentum on ear alcantaras?


----------



## Manu9

Hey all,

 So I'm rather new to this scene, but I'd like to get into it more, I was thinking of the following setup, tell me what do you think and if there's anything I should know.
  
 VMODA BoomPro
 FiiO E09K
 K712 Pro OR Fedilio X1 OR Q701
 Sound Blaster Recon3D OR Trtton's
  
 Will use it for gaming, music, and some movies.
  
 Am I missing something?, I will also need to learn to set it all up etc, any advise about anything will be appreciated! 
  
 PS: I'm currently using a Turtle Beach Phantom for gaming - I know that's the "Beats" of gaming, so here I am looking for advise for something more sophisticated, how much of a difference will it be btw?


----------



## AxelCloris

manu9 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I'm rather new to this scene, but I'd like to get into it more, I was thinking of the following setup, tell me what do you think and if there's anything I should know.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're using the BoomPro with the AKG headphones you'll need an adapter. The headphones use a mini-XLR connection, not the 3.5mm that the BoomPro uses. There is currently no adapter readily available, but ZombieX is testing one he's made. For now, you'd have to DIY one yourself.
  
 I like the Recon3D but the only reason I use it over something like the Mixamp/Xonar U3 is because it's Mac compatible. I enjoy THX but I slightly prefer Dolby Headphone.
  
 I've owned the FiiO E9, the predecessor to the E09K. It's $109 on Amazon right now. The Schiit Magni is available for $99 and I feel it to be a better amp. The only reason to get the FiiO over the Schiit is if you're pairing it with the E07K DAC.


----------



## Stillhart

manu9 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> So I'm rather new to this scene, but I'd like to get into it more, I was thinking of the following setup, tell me what do you think and if there's anything I should know.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Are you using this with a console or a PC?  (Listening to music generally implies a PC setup.)


----------



## Manu9

Alright thanks Axel, I will look into Magni, but a question about the Mixamp, I can't find the old one, and it says that the new one has a lot of noise?
  
  
 Stillhart, it will be mainly Consoles, I will have both setups next to one another so I might switch it to PC from time to time. But I will be listening to Music as well on it


----------



## Stillhart

manu9 said:


> Alright thanks Axel, I will look into Magni, but a question about the Mixamp, I can't find the old one, and it says that the new one has a lot of noise?
> 
> 
> Stillhart, it will be mainly Consoles, I will have both setups next to one another so I might switch it to PC from time to time. But I will be listening to Music as well on it


 

 If you're going to be using a PC and a console, the Recon will suit your needs better than a Mixamp.
  
 As far as noise on the Mixamp, the 5.8 I have is actually decently noisy when you turn it more than halfway up.  If you've got it that loud, tho, you're not going to notice the hiss once the bullets start flying.  Just don't expect much for quiet bits in movies or songs.


----------



## Manu9

stillhart said:


> If you're going to be using a PC and a console, the Recon will suit your needs better than a Mixamp.
> 
> As far as noise on the Mixamp, the 5.8 I have is actually decently noisy when you turn it more than halfway up.  If you've got it that loud, tho, you're not going to notice the hiss once the bullets start flying.  Just don't expect much for quiet bits in movies or songs.


 

 Hmm, any good alternatives then?


----------



## sebastianZA

Anybody use the sennheiser momentum for gaming. Would like to hear what you guys think. From the reviews they seem great but not sure if they more for portable use only. I'm looking at purchasing AKG Q701. So want to know wich would be a better investment?I'm gonna use a Mixamp with it for my PS3?


----------



## dRaiK

Hi guys quite new here.
  
 I have been following this thread quite a bit but I thought it was about time I asked a few of my own questions.
  
 I was wondering how can I tell if I need to use an amp or not for these headphones in the $200+ bracket (but not $400 or above)? I usually just have to try reading the reviews and see if madlust mentions about any amps but then it makes me ponder if I should still buy an amp even if he doesn't mention it in other particular reviews.
  
 I'm thinking in particular, I'm interested in the AKG Q702 or variants thereof and also the Fidelio X1. Do I need an amp for any of the AKG Qxxx? How about the Fidelio X1? 
  
 I just feel like I don't really want to splash my money on an amp and would just prefer to directly input it into my soundcard.


----------



## conquerator2

draik said:


> Hi guys quite new here.
> 
> I have been following this thread quite a bit but I thought it was about time I asked a few of my own questions.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi,
  
 To identify whether to use an amp or not, well the best way is using your ears obviously. When you're underpowering a headphone, you can usually tell with the bass [either uncontrolled or weak] modrange [recessed or lacks dynamics] and treble [usually uncontrolled, uneven too bright].
  
 A rule of thumb would be that any headphone with low impedance [less than 40 ohms] and high sensitivity [over 100db/mw] usually does not require an amp or rather, benefits little from it.
  
 The X1 does not necessarily require a dedicated DAC/am[ and it "should" sound OK out of a soundcard [ideally external, higher quality].
 On board audio is crap 99% of the time [unless the integrated soundcard is good, so no Realtek, etc.].
 X1 will probably sound ok from a soundcard [perhaps even integrated but keep in mind that integrated soundcards are the worst source for headphones] or an MP3 player [tested with Clip+, sounded good IMO] but will scale a bit with dedicated gear.
  
 Q701/K701/2/K612 [all sensitivity above 100 db/mw but impedance is 64 ohms and for K612 even 120 ohms, so...] is a no-no with on-board audio and scales a lot higher with dedicated gear [it is even a bit picky and depends on synergy to a point, but generally]. It sounded OK with a dedicated DAP [again the Clip+] but scales higher with its own DAC/amp.
  
 For AKG a dedicated headphone amp/DAC [[Modi/Magni, E17/E9, Mstage, O2/ODAC, etc]] is a must IMO, or at leasta dedicated soundcard. It is not to be used with onboard audio.
 X1 "should" perhaps be at least passable with an onboard soundcard but will also improve with a modest dedicated source or amplifier.
  
 Whenever I tried an integrated soundcard [Realtek] with headphones or IEMs I was not impressed. Some were more passable than others [sensitive IEMs or headphones] but it was never optimal.


----------



## AxelCloris

draik said:


> Hi guys quite new here.
> 
> I have been following this thread quite a bit but I thought it was about time I asked a few of my own questions.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Both headphones you mention will work without an amp. They can get to reasonable volume levels without one. But for both headphones having an amp will improve the sound by refining it.
  
 Really the main function of a soundcard should be DSP, and for most features beyond that it's better to spend the extra you save on an external amp. It's slightly more cumbersome for some people, but I find it more convenient since you can have the amp in arm's reach and you can keep the tower out of the way. But I can understand wanting to run out of the amp directly if you have a really beefy one already. But you'll need one of the stronger soundcards out there to allow the Q701 to show off its finer qualities.


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> Q701/K701/2/K612 [all sensitivity above 100 db/mw but impedance is 64 ohms and for K612 even 120 ohms, so...] is a no-no with on-board audio and scales a lot higher with dedicated gear [it is even a bit picky and depends on synergy to a point, but generally]. It sounded OK with a dedicated DAP [again the Clip+] but scales higher with its own DAC/amp.
> 
> For AKG a dedicated headphone amp/DAC [[Modi/Magni, E17/E9, Mstage, O2/ODAC, etc]] is a must IMO, or at leasta dedicated soundcard. It is not to be used with onboard audio.
> X1 "should" perhaps be at least passable with an onboard soundcard but will also improve with a modest dedicated source or amplifier.


 
  
 I'm going to disagree slightly with this. The Q701 was able to hit comfortable volumes directly out of my MBP's headphone jack. I agree that it does scale with power; I doubt anyone would refute that fact. If the system you're using has decent on-board audio, you can get acceptable performance without anything else required. That said, most PC integrated DAC/amps are super cheap garbage and having an external DAC/amp will really improve the sound. Not saying that the MBP's built in DAC is incredible by any means, but it's certainly better than almost any integrated audio I've experienced on PC.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I'm going to disagree slightly with this. The Q701 was able to hit comfortable volumes directly out of my MBP's headphone jack. I agree that it does scale with power; I doubt anyone would refute that fact. If the system you're using has decent on-board audio, you can get acceptable performance without anything else required. That said, most PC integrated DAC/amps are super cheap garbage and having an external DAC/amp will really improve the sound. Not saying that the MBP's built in DAC is incredible by any means, but it's certainly better than almost any integrated audio I've experienced on PC.


 
 I think this part is what you mean - "On board audio is crap 99% of the time [unless the integrated soundcard is good, so no Realtek, etc.]."
 Maybe 95% but MBP is in the 5% rest assured. Usually, all but the most expensive mobos use cheap-ass-crap sound cards [like Realtek's] and with those, Q701 is a waste [tested with my K612 Pros and they sounded much better literally off everything else] and the X1 is so-so but crap [also tested].
 Also, nowhere did I mention volume levels, I was talking purely SQ. Yeah they might get plenty loud, but you'd be just wasting a good pair of headphones most of the time.
  
 So yes, you're correct and so am I


----------



## benbenkr

Credit where credit is due please, the latest Realtek ALC1150 on most motherboards now a days actually sound decent... *not crap*. The general perception of when Realtek used to sound like utter trash is so 2007. We're in 2014.
  
 They'll never knock your ears off, but they absolutely don't sound like crap. That I can assure anybody.


----------



## martin vegas

benbenkr said:


> Credit where credit is due please, the latest Realtek ALC1150 on most motherboards now a days actually sound decent... *not crap*. The general perception of when Realtek used to sound like utter trash is so 2007. We're in 2014.
> 
> They'll never knock your ears off, but they absolutely don't sound like crap. That I can assure anybody.


----------



## benbenkr

martin vegas said:


>




  
 And.... your point?


----------



## martin vegas

benbenkr said:


> And.... your point?


 

 No point mate, just put it up so people know what you are going on about..it does say that the ALC1150 is better for listening to music and that the xonar is better for game music!


----------



## sebastianZA

#23917 of 23926 8 hours ago 
sebastianZA
Anybody use the sennheiser momentum for gaming. Would like to hear what you guys think. From the reviews they seem great but not sure if they more for portable use only. I'm looking at purchasing AKG Q701. So want to know wich would be a better investment?I'm gonna use a Mixamp with it for my PS3?


----------



## Stillhart

stillhart said:


> ...the Recon will suit your needs better than a Mixamp...


 
  
  


manu9 said:


> Hmm, any good alternatives then?


 
  
 Am I misunderstanding your question?


----------



## Schroeder

What about Sony MDR-HW700DS?
They've got a game and a cinema mode for surround effect.


----------



## Evshrug

Too new to really know. The following is just connecting the dots from reading things on the Internet.

The good news is this is a virtual surround processor (surround from two large drivers mated to your two ears) with multiple HDMI inputs. This could also be a viable HDMI switcher for those that don't have the need/space for a receiver. You can also connect multiple wireless headphones, and if Sony's MDR-R1 Bluetooth model is any indication, the wireless signal is pretty clean.

The bad news is that you can only use the Sony HW700DS headphone with it, it's expensive, warranty and instructions are for Japan (possibly the AC adapter too), and past iterations of Sony's headphone surround DSP have only been "so-so" with a cave-like reverb to the sound. It is possible they have improved their DSP... I don't know what the Playstation Gold uses (could be Dolby Headphone), but it HAS to be something in-house by Sony for the HW700DS since it interprets 9.1 channels. There's not much media yet that is coded for 9.1 channels...


----------



## Fegefeuer

The HW700DS is already available both in the US and EU without import.
  
 Most likely the device doesn't output binaural over optical so you're indeed stuck with the headphones. Not worth it. Not at aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall. 
  
 I'm not a fan of buying stuff and sending it back just for testing purposes, else I'd have checked out this device already.


----------



## Yethal

Hi, just want a quick opinion, what do You guys think of Samson sr850? Are they worth buying or is it a better idea to save money on something tad pricier. I'm using mixamp 2013 magni combo.


----------



## PurpleAngel

yethal said:


> Hi, just want a quick opinion, what do You guys think of Samson sr850? Are they worth buying or is it a better idea to save money on something tad pricier. I'm using mixamp 2013 magni combo.


 
  
 For their price , $49.99 they are a good value.
 If you where going to up your budget, then your looking at $90-$120 for the Sennheiser HD558s.


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> For their price , $49.99 they are a good value.
> If you where going to up your budget, then your looking at $90-$120 for the Sennheiser HD558s.


 
 are modded 558s as competitive oriented as 598? I'm looking for a pair of cans I'll buy and then never think about buying another one after that. Also back here new pair of 558 costs as much as new pair of AKG K612 which is kinda riddiculous.


----------



## autoteleology

I finally got my SRM-T1 back from Accutech after a component went bad, and part of the welcoming party was my new Xonar U3 (to upmix the signal from 2.0 to 7.1 with Dolby Pro Logic IIx, custom remap the spatial processing with 7.1 Virtual Surround, downmix the 7.1 data back to 2.0 with Dolby Headphone, and apply equalization/sound normalization before outputting the resulting processed PCM data through optical TOSLINK) and my Fiio D07K (cheap, effective optical DAC).

 In short, my new audio chain is Xonar U3 (processor) -> Fiio D07K + HiFiMeDIY USB Power Isolator (DAC) -> Stax SRM-T1 (amp) -> Stax Lambda Normal Bias (headphone).

 The results of this are absolutely mind-blowing. I've never heard anything like this before, even from something like an Astro Mixamp. A Mixamp can't even hold a candle to this, both in processing and in SQ. The spatial processing is so accurate it is almost eerie - I can perfectly place everything going on around me just from watching my uploaded YouTube videos, much less actual in-game audio. When I get my HD7970GEs back from servicing on Monday and start playing again after my month-long hiatus, I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be game-breaking.

 It works just as well with music, too - I compared the processed and non-processed output while listening to some Daft Punk (the Xonar U3 control panel has a switch to turn all processing on and off) and the result is a vast improvement over vanilla 2.0 - by comparison, the unprocessed signal sounds terrible, or as terrible as a mid-tier Stax setup can sound. My Lambdas sound effortless, but with custom processing, they sound so, so much more so.

 So, basically, I've found my audio nirvana. I can't imagine headphone audio ever getting better than this. I highly recommend the Xonar U3 to anyone who listens to music or plays games through a PC, and either has an optical DAC, or doesn't mind shelling out a few bucks for one (the D07K costs like $50, and the Modi is $100). The Xonar U3 costs like $30, and to me, it's worth far more than that.


----------



## Murder Mike

yethal said:


> are modded 558s as competitive oriented as 598? I'm looking for a pair of cans I'll buy and then never think about buying another one after that. Also back here new pair of 558 costs as much as new pair of AKG K612 which is kinda riddiculous.


 
  
 If you have a Magni and the K612 costs the same as the 558, I would go with the K612.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> If you have a Magni and the K612 costs the same as the 558, I would go with the K612.




+1.


----------



## Yethal

murder mike said:


> If you have a Magni and the K612 costs the same as the 558, I would go with the K612.


 
 Thanks, I'll go with K612 then.


----------



## Sharrakor

Hey guys, I've just ordered the denon ahd1100 for gaming on a new laptop. I was looking at the CAL!, which is well spoken of in this thread, but had a change of heart and ordered the denons instead. Part of why I did that is that both of these headphones are supposed to sound very similar, ergo the ahd1100 must be nice for gaming as well.
Where I'm going is, have any of you used the denon ahd1100 with dolby headphone? How do they sound?
Many thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

Anyone seen this little gem yet?
  
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527826/microsofts-3-d-audio-gives-virtual-objects-a-voice/
  
 MS is working on 3-D virtual surround audio that tracks your body position using the Kinect sensor!  Man, how awesome would that be?


----------



## PurpleAngel

sebastianza said:


> #23917 of 23926 8 hours ago
> sebastianZA
> Anybody use the sennheiser momentum for gaming. Would like to hear what you guys think. From the reviews they seem great but not sure if they more for portable use only. I'm looking at purchasing AKG Q701. So want to know wich would be a better investment?I'm gonna use a Mixamp with it for my PS3?


 
  
 I wonder if the Mix-amp can drive the Q701s well enough?
 Might think of getting a used HD558.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Anyone seen this little gem yet?
> 
> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/527826/microsofts-3-d-audio-gives-virtual-objects-a-voice/
> 
> MS is working on 3-D virtual surround audio that tracks your body position using the Kinect sensor!  Man, how awesome would that be?




That's all great and nice but do you really move at all when playing games? You're sitting in the middle and that's where the audio is centered too most of the time (or on the character)

Unless you mean all the decent Kinect games where you need precise Game audio and wear headphones... Oh, wait 

Neat idea but... Somewhat useless, isn't it?


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> That's all great and nice but do you really move at all when playing games? You're sitting in the middle and that's where the audio is centered too most of the time (or on the character)
> 
> Unless you mean all the decent Kinect games where you need precise Game audio and wear headphones... Oh, wait
> 
> ...


 

 I think the main use would be for the Oculus Rift (obviously).  Turn your head in VR, sound tracks your head movements and stays in the same place.
  
 Or hell, you don't even need to be in VR.  Imagine turning your head in a first-person game to get a better "read" on where a sound is coming from, rather than turning your character.
  
 And let's not forget that outside of gaming, this is a thing that people are interested in.  I can't recall the name of the device, but there's a DAC/Amp you can buy that does this already and it's in the multi-thousand dollar range.  The idea is that music sounds more realistic on headphones if the sound stays in the same relative place when you move around. 
  
 *shrug* There's three uses for you right there.  I'm sure there are people way smarter than me working on how to market and sell it as we speak!


----------



## Change is Good

Meh....


----------



## Silent Xaxal

stillhart said:


> I think the main use would be for the Oculus Rift (obviously).  Turn your head in VR, sound tracks your head movements and stays in the same place.
> 
> Or hell, you don't even need to be in VR.  Imagine turning your head in a first-person game to get a better "read" on where a sound is coming from, rather than turning your character.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not that exciting, to be honest, seeing as that is what having a good soundstage will give. If that can give a similar effect to cans with less soundstage.....color me interested.
  
 But besides that, most core gamers will be just sitting, or, at most, playing with a wiimote (Not a large bunch, but they do exist) controller, or MKB.


----------



## dakanao

What amp/DAC combo do you guys recommend to get the most refined sound out of the X1?


----------



## hallonpaj

I wanna get a pair of gaming headphones for pc fps. From reading the reviews I wanna get a pair of AD700. They are discontinued.
 But I can get a pair of AUDIO-TECHNICA ATH-AD700X I wanna know if someone can confirm these are as good as the older AD700?
 Has Mad Lust tried them yet?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Yethal

hallonpaj said:


> I wanna get a pair of gaming headphones for pc fps. From reading the reviews I wanna get a pair of AD700. They are discontinued.
> But I can get a pair of AUDIO-TECHNICA ATH-AD700X I wanna know if someone can confirm these are as good as the older AD700?
> Has Mad Lust tried them yet?
> 
> Thanks


 

 He didn't but all the guys who did say that they sound pretty much the same but with slightly worse build quality


----------



## hallonpaj

yethal said:


> He didn't but all the guys who did say that they sound pretty much the same but with slightly worse build quality


 

 Ok. So I guess it will be a safe bet.


----------



## Yethal

hallonpaj said:


> Ok. So I guess it will be a safe bet.


 

 I wonder if the bass is better. I considered buying them for a time but lack of bass in the original ad700 makes them unsuitable for music imo.


----------



## Murder Mike

conquerator2 said:


> Neat idea but... Somewhat useless, isn't it?


 
  
 Agreed. Plus it uses proprietary hardware that's tethered to a console.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> I finally got my SRM-T1 back from Accutech after a component went bad, and part of the welcoming party was my new Xonar U3 (to upmix the signal from 2.0 to 7.1 with Dolby Pro Logic IIx, custom remap the spatial processing with 7.1 Virtual Surround, downmix the 7.1 data back to 2.0 with Dolby Headphone, and apply equalization/sound normalization before outputting the resulting processed PCM data through optical TOSLINK) and my Fiio D07K (cheap, effective optical DAC).
> 
> 
> In short, my new audio chain is Xonar U3 (processor) -> Fiio D07K + HiFiMeDIY USB Power Isolator (DAC) -> Stax SRM-T1 (amp) -> Stax Lambda Normal Bias (headphone).
> ...




Glad it's working out for you. Mine has a permanent spot in my setup.


----------



## Change is Good

^The dead has risen! LOL


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Glad it's working out for you. Mine has a permanent spot in my setup.


 
 I wonder, wouldn't it be easier to render the sound in 7.1 mode and process it with dolby headphone and then send it to DAC instead of rendering it in stereo upscaling it and downscaling back again?


----------



## autoteleology

yethal said:


> I wonder, wouldn't it be easier to render the sound in 7.1 mode and process it with dolby headphone and then send it to DAC instead of rendering it in stereo upscaling it and downscaling back again?


 
  
 Yes, you can do that. With the Xonar U3, it auto-detects what the audio signal is (2, 4, 6, 8 channel). Upmixing from 2.0 to 7.1 is available for 2 channel, but if you already have a 7.1 signal, the Xonar automatically removes Dolby Pro Logic IIx (the upmixer) from the processing chain. I've only listened to music through my new setup so far since my GPUs are on their way back from a servicing center, but if the spatial effects are _*THIS GOOD*_ from just 2.0, I can hardly imagine the effects I can get from a legitimate 7.1 source.


----------



## Yethal

tus-chan said:


> Yes, you can do that. With the Xonar U3, it auto-detects what the audio signal is (2, 4, 6, 8 channel). Upmixing from 2.0 to 7.1 is available for 2 channel, but if you already have a 7.1 signal, the Xonar automatically removes Dolby Pro Logic IIx (the upmixer) from the processing chain. I've only listened to music through my new setup so far since my GPUs are on their way back from a servicing center, but if the spatial effects are _*THIS GOOD*_ from just 2.0, I can hardly imagine the effects I can get from a legitimate 7.1 source


 
 I wonder how battlefield sounds on that setup. With grenades flying everywhere and noobtube spam


----------



## Silent Xaxal

tus-chan said:


> Yes, you can do that. With the Xonar U3, it auto-detects what the audio signal is (2, 4, 6, 8 channel). Upmixing from 2.0 to 7.1 is available for 2 channel, but if you already have a 7.1 signal, the Xonar automatically removes Dolby Pro Logic IIx (the upmixer) from the processing chain. I've only listened to music through my new setup so far since my GPUs are on their way back from a servicing center, but if the spatial effects are _*THIS GOOD*_ from just 2.0, I can hardly imagine the effects I can get from a legitimate 7.1 source.


 
  
 Can the Xonar work with a console?


----------



## conquerator2

silent xaxal said:


> Can the Xonar work with a console?


 
 nope


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> nope


 

 Has anyone tried it with the ps4?


----------



## benbenkr

martin vegas said:


> Has anyone tried it with the ps4?


 
  
 Yes and it doesn't work because the U3 needs drivers to operate.


----------



## Yethal

benbenkr said:


> Yes and it doesn't work because the U3 needs drivers to operate.


 
 Isn't it supposed to work as a usb hid device?


----------



## MonarchX

Hello! I was pointed to this thread to ask some questions I have. I am, very surprised at the headphone ratings I have seen here... I used to have Astro A40's with Creative X-Fi Titanium and they were nowhere near as good as Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's, which have much better specs, but most importantly they sound much better with my ASUS Xonar DGX (UNi drivers & 7.1 Shifter Profile), at least in my honest opinion. Is the final provided rating based on overall ratings from many people or just one person's opinion?
  
 Anyway, below are my PC's audio components & their impedance:
 Realtek ALC892 Onboard sound @ 2ohms
 ASUS Xonar DGX  @ 10ohms w/ UNi drivers & updated Dolby Headphone 7.1 Shifter profile
 Sennheiser HD-280 Pro Monitoring headphones @ 64ohms
 Logitech Z-680 505W DD/DTS 5.1 speakers @ 8ohms 
  
 I'm a PC gamer who enjoys Dolby Headphone positional/surround audio/sound, but *I am **not an audiophile** with a good sense of hearing **who can easily differentiate between good & bad sound quality. I can, however, tell when positional audio is not accurate in terms of sound direction and sound distance.* The main and the only audio/sound complaint I have is that Dolby Headphone technology has this reverberation / echo with any settings I try, but at the same time it makes the spatial/positional sound cues more differentiated/accurate to my ears than some other technologies I have tried, like CMSS-3D. I can always tell where the sound is coming from and how far away it is with Dolby Headphone. All this led me to try out something else I liked and found not only comparable, but also superior to Dolby Headphone - Creative's SBX Pro @ 30%. SBX Pro seems to produce the cleanest positional audio out of all available technologies/methods/licenses I have tried, like Dolby Headphone, CMSS-3D, Razer Kraken 7.1 Virtual Surround Engine, etc.
  
 There are several questions I would like someone to answer or just provide some feedback before I make a decision to buy Sound Blaster Z, which supports SBX Pro:
 - If anyone noticed, SBX Pro offers exactly the same features as THX TruStudio Pro did a few years back. The web page dedicated to SBX Pro has an identical address to the one that used to be dedicated to THX TruStudio Pro. *Some say that SBX Pro is simply a re-branded THX TruStudio Pro. Is that true?* My Realtek ALC892 onboard sound supports a freely available THX TruStudio Pro package & utilities at http://www.station-drivers.com/. If it sounds exactly or very close to SBX Pro, then I will not need to upgrade to Sound Blaster Z! In fact, I could even get rid of my ASUS Xonar DGX. *The most important factors for me are the positional accuracy and the clarity of the sound itself*. That is what makes up "sound quality" in my mind.
  
 - What about other technologies such as Dolby Digital Plus Advanced Audio (latest version), Dolby Home Theatre v4, and DTS Surround Sound Sensation? They all feature downmixing 5.7/7.1 multi-channel audio to 2.0 stereo for headphone output. There are other technologies/licenses that may do the same with Realtek ALC892 and here is the list:
 +Dolby SRS TruSurround HD
 +SRS Premium Sound 
 +Fortemedia SAM 
 +Synopsys Sonic Focus
 +DTS Surround Sensation | UltraPC 
 +DTS Connect
 I know that some of the above technologies, like DTS Connect are used to send 5.1 compressed sound over SPDIF, just like Dolby Digital Live, and they cannot be used for virtual surround sound in headphones. This is why I came here to inquire further. At first, I thought that all of these were just gimmicks, but then I learned that many people thought SBX Pro was the best, while others thought SBX Pro may have been nothing new and nothing more than THX TruStudio Pro, which I can get any time I want.
  
 I know onboard sound can suck at times, but the only real difference between all these soundcards when it comes to sound processing are the licenses that were applied to them. I am sure that just about any decent soundcard like ASUS Xonar DGX could support almost ALL of the features I listed, given they get licensed for them and supporting driver & software are provided. Take a look at Realtek ALC1150 - on some motherboards it supports basic Realtek-support audio technologies,, but on others that had their makers buy the right license, ALC1150 supports SBX Pro!!! Onboard sound has a higher chance of producing crackling sounds, noises, having all kinds of small distortions, but the issue is not with the chip itself or the processing. The issue is how the chip was integrated. Many new motherboards today isolate the sound chip to prevent crackling and distortions from occurring and doing so worked! My motherboard is rather old - ASUS P8Z77-V Pro, but I have no crackling sounds or noises or any issues with it, which is why I would rather use it with THX TruStudio Pro instead of buying Sound Blaster Z. 
  
Impedance is another aspect that may benefit me more if I stick to my onboard Realtek ALC892 sound chip. ALC892 is rated @ 2 ohms, which would perfectly match my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro's with 64ohms and would be a better match for my Logitech Z-680 505W DD/DTS 5.1 8ohms speakers. ASUS Xonar DGX is a 10ohms soundcard, which creates a slight mismatch with my 64ohms headphones, and a huge mismatch with my 8ohms speakers. Sound Blaster Z has even a higher impedance of 22ohms! I know impedance mismatch is not a big deal and my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro 64ohms headphone could handle it with distortions so mild that I'd never even know, but my speakers would probably sound crappy, wouldn't they?
  
 Anyway, I just need to know whether SBX Pro = THX TruStudio Pro by those who actually experienced both and whether there are other technologies superior or comparable to SBX Pro that are supported by my onboard chip. Only then I can decide if upgrading to Sound Blaster Z is worth it or not.
  
 Sorry for the long post! I will appreciate any feedback you can provide.
  
 Thank you!


----------



## PurpleAngel

yethal said:


> Isn't it supposed to work as a usb hid device?


 
  
 I guess Asus does not make software drivers that allow the PS4 operating system to communicate with the Xonar U3.
 Sony might require a payment or fee to be paid to themselves for each type of device designed to work with the PS4 and Asus may not be willing to pay it.


----------



## Stillhart

monarchx said:


> Anyway, I just need to know whether SBX Pro = THX TruStudio Pro by those who actually experienced both and whether there are other technologies superior or comparable to SBX Pro that are supported by my onboard chip. Only then I can decide if upgrading to Sound Blaster Z is worth it or not.
> 
> Sorry for the long post! I will appreciate any feedback you can provide.
> 
> Thank you!


 
  
 I have used DH, THX and SBX devices.  I agree that DH has weird reverb that's kind of annoying.  I also agree that I find THX/SBX to work much better for my ears.
  
 I own both a SB Recon3D (THX) and an SB Omni (SBX) and I believe the rumors that SB just stole the THX tech and decided to stop paying the licensing fees.  They are basically the same to me.  I know @Evshrug has both as well, and I think he's mentioned hearing some slight differences.  Mostly, the new SB just has better sound quality than the old one; the surround sounds the same.
  
 If the THX on your onboard card works, it's probably not worth upgrading to a SBZ for JUST gaming.  If you'll be using it for music, it's worth upgrading simply for better SQ.
  
 EDIT - Also, this is probably a question that's better in the Nameless Guide to PC Gaming.


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

Guys, I am currently owning a Philips X1 + Creative Z.
  
  
 Is there a update I could do, in terms to improve soundquality in music? I dont like the current sound quality..


----------



## Murder Mike

onepotatoarmy said:


> Guys, I am currently owning a Philips X1 + Creative Z.
> 
> 
> Is there a update I could do, in terms to improve soundquality in music? I dont like the current sound quality..


 
 What specifically don't you like?


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

murder mike said:


> What specifically don't you like?


 
 Sounds a bit boring and not so punchy and catchy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

onepotatoarmy said:


> Guys, I am currently owning a Philips X1 + Creative Z.
> Is there a update I could do, in terms to improve sound quality in music? I don't like the current sound quality..


 
  
 Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 You have 30-Ohm headphones plugged into a headphone jack with an output impedance of 22-Ohms.
 I'm assuming you are getting a bloated (louder, less detailed) bass?


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

purpleangel said:


> Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
> You have 30-Ohm headphones plugged into a headphone jack with an output impedance of 22-Ohms.
> I'm assuming you are getting a bloated (louder, less detailed) bass?


 
 I already order the V Moda cable with a Mic on it, it should be better right?
  
 Shell I get a different sound card? The bass is a bit boring, I am mostly listen to edm and I just cant fell in love with it.


----------



## Stillhart

onepotatoarmy said:


> I already order the V Moda cable with a Mic on it, it should be better right?
> 
> Shell I get a different sound card? The bass is a bit boring, I am mostly listen to edm and I just cant fell in love with it.


 
  
 I thought the X1 really improved with an amp.  The bass tightened up significantly, which cleared up the mids.  I was using mine with my SB Omni (same as the Z) and the amp was a noticeable improvement.
  
 EDIT - And yes, I thought the Boom-pro mic cable actually cleared up a little congestion that I didn't even notice until it was gone.


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

stillhart said:


> I thought the X1 really improved with an amp.  The bass tightened up significantly, which cleared up the mids.  I was using mine with my SB Omni (same as the Z) and the amp was a noticeable improvement.
> 
> EDIT - And yes, I thought the Boom-pro mic cable actually cleared up a little congestion that I didn't even notice until it was gone.


 
  
  
 Well, its not bad and I am not a pro in the genre, but I think it can be better. The headset is great, but my old g35 and my qpad 90 sounds similar I think.
  
 I am not sure, I just dont feel a big diffrent


----------



## Stillhart

onepotatoarmy said:


> Well, its not bad and I am not a pro in the genre, but I think it can be better. The headset is great, but my old g35 and my qpad 90 sounds similar I think.
> 
> I am not sure, I just dont feel a big diffrent


 
  
 Well I've never heard those other headphones, so I can't really comment on the difference.  I know that the bass on my X1 was overpowering the mids until I amped it, which improved both the bass and the mids.  My suggestion would be to grab a cheap amp like a Magni or Vali or an O2 or something (I don't know what's supposed to pair well with it).
  
 Also, make sure you're listening to good music sources --  FLAC or 320k MP3's.


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

stillhart said:


> Well I've never heard those other headphones, so I can't really comment on the difference.  I know that the bass on my X1 was overpowering the mids until I amped it, which improved both the bass and the mids.  My suggestion would be to grab a cheap amp like a Magni or Vali or an O2 or something (I don't know what's supposed to pair well with it).
> 
> Also, make sure you're listening to good music sources --  FLAC or 320k MP3's.


 
 Currently listening my music on google music client and spotify, which is 320k.
  
 Also, will I lose my Surround Sound, when I use a amp and how much performance boost can I achieve with it?


----------



## Stillhart

onepotatoarmy said:


> Currently listening my music on google music client and spotify, which is 320k.
> 
> Also, will I lose my Surround Sound, when I use a amp and how much performance boost can I achieve with it?


 
 Nope, you won't lose your surround sound, tho you should probably have that turned off while listening to music.  Regarding the performance boost, I'm not sure what you're asking.  I've already described how the sound will change.  It's not something I can be any more clear about, other than to say I didn't really like the X1 until I amped it and then I liked it a lot.  But that's my taste in sound, your mileage may vary.


----------



## OnePotatoArmy

stillhart said:


> Nope, you won't lose your surround sound, tho you should probably have that turned off while listening to music.  Regarding the performance boost, I'm not sure what you're asking.  I've already described how the sound will change.  It's not something I can be any more clear about, other than to say I didn't really like the X1 until I amped it and then I liked it a lot.  But that's my taste in sound, your mileage may vary.


 
 So I should buy a amp.

 How exaclly can I edit the amp. I never done this before and I am not even sure, what a amp does.
  
 Also, doesnt the creative zxr have also an amp?


----------



## Totoori

Hi!
  
 Any recommendations for an external microphone to attach to my HD650s? I understand that ModMic seems to be the best but the price will total to $70~ or so after all is said and done- especially since I'm in Canada.
  
 I'm looking for something that has a pretty good sound for a low price (like everyone else...) and wont get in the way of my HD650s. I'm in Canada and would really like to order from a Canadian source like Amazon.ca.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

onepotatoarmy said:


> So I should buy a amp.
> 
> How exaclly can I edit the amp. I never done this before and I am not even sure, what a amp does.
> 
> Also, doesnt the creative zxr have also an amp?


 
  
  


totoori said:


> Hi!
> 
> Any recommendations for an external microphone to attach to my HD650s? I understand that ModMic seems to be the best but the price will total to $70~ or so after all is said and done- especially since I'm in Canada.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The first post in this thread has some info on both amps and mics.  Personally, I just use the cheap ($5 for 3) Neweer mic that I clip to the headphone cable.


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks for being very helpful, as you have, Stillhart. We all know some of us don't have the patience for some of these questions that have been posted, recently. It has killed the thread, a significant bit, in my opinion...


----------



## Totoori

Thanks! I have a really hard time loading the main page with my internet... it just doesn't load since my net is so bad lol.
  
 I did a search and found these on Amazon.ca:
  
 http://www.amazon.ca/HDE%C2%AE-3-5-Clip-Mini-Microphone/dp/B001N0W2B6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402101392&sr=8-1&keywords=mic
  
 Would this actually work at $7 after shipping? Any chance you can do a quick check on Amazon.ca and let me know which I should pick up, if any? I really would read the reviews but it won't let me =(
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> Thanks! I have a really hard time loading the main page with my internet... it just doesn't load since my net is so bad lol.
> 
> I did a search and found these on Amazon.ca:
> 
> ...


 

 The HDE is the one I use, it's the same thing as the Neewer.  Of the three I got, one was a DOA and two worked.  That's good enough for me.  Takes a couple weeks to ship from China btw.


----------



## Totoori

Thanks for the info. Is the ModMic that much better in quality/etc? I'm reading the reviews on this thing and it seems there are so many DoA/etc problems... It kind of scares me.
  
 Do I have any non clip-on options? Or are those really the only good quality for voice/etc for games when you have an open pair of headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> Thanks for the info. Is the ModMic that much better in quality/etc? I'm reading the reviews on this thing and it seems there are so many DoA/etc problems... It kind of scares me.
> 
> Do I have any non clip-on options? Or are those really the only good quality for voice/etc for games when you have an open pair of headphones?


 

 I mean, there are a few options in the guide.  I can only speak to the ones I've used, which are the HDE/Neweer and the V-Moda Boompro, which won't work for your headphones. 
  
 I will say that you can get what... 30 HDE's for the price of one Modmic?  I suspect the DOA rate is significantly less than 29 in 30.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Are you gaming on the PC or console?  If you're on the PC, there are a lot more options cuz you can use a desktop solution (like the one that comes with the Sound Blaster Z).


----------



## Totoori

stillhart said:


> I mean, there are a few options in the guide.  I can only speak to the ones I've used, which are the HDE/Neweer and the V-Moda Boompro, which won't work for your headphones.
> 
> I will say that you can get what... 30 HDE's for the price of one Modmic?  I suspect the DOA rate is significantly less than 29 in 30.
> 
> ...


 
 I'm on my PC! I should have said that, I guess =)


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> I'm on my PC! I should have said that, I guess =)


 

 What sound card are you using?


----------



## Totoori

I have a Vali/Modi with HD650s, onboard sound aside from that.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

change is good said:


> Thanks for being very helpful, as you have, Stillhart. We all know some of us don't have the patience for some of these questions that have been posted, recently. It has killed the thread, a significant bit, in my opinion...


 
  
 I think the redundancy is more to blame. Then again, some don't have the patience to wade through 1599 pages worth of discussion just to find a singular answer to their focused question.


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> I have a Vali/Modi with HD650s, onboard sound aside from that.


 

 Okay, well you can get a Sound Blaster Z or Omni for around $70 at Amazon US.  I'd recommend one of those for gaming.  You get surround sound and a desktop mic that works great.  For the same price as the modmic, it's probably a better way to spend your cash. 
  
 FWIW, I couldn't hear much difference between the DAC in the Omni and the Modi, so I returned my Modi.  In theory, you might be able to get the Sound Blaster and eventually sell the Modi and come out slightly ahead (depending on your ears).


----------



## Totoori

stillhart said:


> Okay, well you can get a Sound Blaster Z or Omni for around $70 at Amazon US.  I'd recommend one of those for gaming.  You get surround sound and a desktop mic that works great.  For the same price as the modmic, it's probably a better way to spend your cash.
> 
> FWIW, I couldn't hear much difference between the DAC in the Omni and the Modi, so I returned my Modi.  In theory, you might be able to get the Sound Blaster and eventually sell the Modi and come out slightly ahead (depending on your ears).


 
  
 Ahh... when I was first picking things out I was told I wouldn't ever need a soundcard with the Vali/Modi. Damn! =)
  
 I actually have the ASUS Maximus VI Hero. I have read that the sound is much better on this than other boards, perhaps it's good enough for voice?


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> Ahh... when I was first picking things out I was told I wouldn't ever need a soundcard with the Vali/Modi. Damn! =)
> 
> I actually have the ASUS Maximus VI Hero. I have read that the sound is much better on this than other boards, perhaps it's good enough for voice?


 
  
 Well you're in a thread for people who like surround sound in their gaming, so we're going to push surround solutions.  The Modi will only give you stereo sound.  It'll sound great, but you've got room to improving for gaming.
  
 I don't know enough about onboard sound and I'm not going to go look it up, but I wouldn't be surprised if that one has good sound.  That's their flagship MoBo isn't it?  I'm sure it's fine for voice.  I just think if you're spending $70 on a mod-mic, the SBZ is probably a better solution that gives you voice AND surround.  :-D
  
 So yeah, I'm sure most any desktop mic will work fine.  A quick search of Amazon shows a zillion of em in the $10 range.  Again, probably not the best quality, but sufficient.


----------



## Totoori

Thanks a ton I will look a little deeper.
  
 Maybe I am a little confused- but you mention the SBZ as an alternative to the ModMic... are you talking about SBZ and one of the $5 mics?


----------



## Stillhart

On an unrelated note, here's a bunch of stuff I've got on my desk right now:
  

  
 AKG Q701 (bass port mod, braided cable), Audio-GD NFB-15.32, Yulong D100, SB Omni, SB Recond3D, Fiio E11, HRT Microstreamer.  The M-Stage is off to the right unplugged at the moment.  You can also see one of my ancient Cambridge Soundworks 2.1 powered speakers.  These things sound amazing still after all these years.
  
 The HRT, for its size, sounds really surprisingly good.  It doesn't have the oomph of the other two but you know, what do you expect from something so small.  It's my new work rig (wanted something small and out of the way) and I think I'm going to keep it.
  
 The Fiio is going on Mixamp duty.  The Recon is waiting for my PS4.  I was using both the Recon and E11 at work, but the HRT came in today so they're home now. 
  
 The Omni has an optical port on the back feeding the 15.32.  When I'm listening to music, I use WASPI to bypass the SBX surround processing.  When I'm gaming, good ol surround!
  
 Still trying to decide between the AGD and the Yulong for my main DAC/Amp.  I've been testing for a week and still can't decide.  I'm going to test the DAC sections of both this weekend (using the M-stage amp) to see whether the DAC or Amp is coloring the sound on these (since they definitely have different sounds).
  
 Happy Friday night!!!


----------



## Stillhart

totoori said:


> Thanks a ton I will look a little deeper.
> 
> Maybe I am a little confused- but you mention the SBZ as an alternative to the ModMic... are you talking about SBZ and one of the $5 mics?


 

 No, the SBZ comes with a mic.


----------



## Totoori

stillhart said:


> No, the SBZ comes with a mic.


 
 Oh, thanks! The amazon.ca one didn't say it aside from deep in the description!


----------



## martin vegas

totoori said:


> I have a Vali/Modi with HD650s, onboard sound aside from that.


 
 Heres the mod mic 4.0!


----------



## Fidelity King

How do the dna pro compare to the beat pros and monster inspiration?


----------



## Yethal

fidelity king said:


> How do the dna pro compare to the beat pros and monster inspiration?


 
 Don't mention beats on this forum! They'll crucify you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't kept up with Beats and Monster's other lines, but I'm pretty sure Beats now has some really good build quality, which the DNA Pro utterly lacks. If Beats can manage to find some similar flavor of tonal balance as the Pros, they'd have some real potential. Even saying so, I have zero desire to buy or really try fashion accessory type headphones like Beats, V-moda, SOUL, SMS (50 cent), etc.


----------



## Fidelity King

When ur talking about monster headphones you kinda have to mention beats and compare them to the monster headphones but anywase my last question is how the dna pro compare to the audio technica m50


----------



## Wadoo

I'm looking for some advice I'm looking to buy AKG K612 Pro to use for gaming/music, and see alot of people saying an amp is needed can anyone recommend a sound-card + amp I should be looking at Thanks! ​http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_IV_EXTREME/ my MB if that matters​


----------



## frankefrum

So, I just pulled the trigger, somewhat impulsively, on the Fidelio X1 headphones and Fiio E12 portable amp to go with my mix amp 5.8... Does anyone have any experience/feedback on this combination? Please post some feedback. Thanks!


----------



## autoteleology

mad lust envy said:


> Haven't kept up with Beats and Monster's other lines, but I'm pretty sure Beats now has some really good build quality, which the DNA Pro utterly lacks. If Beats can manage to find some similar flavor of tonal balance as the Pros, they'd have some real potential. Even saying so, I have zero desire to buy or really try fashion accessory type headphones like Beats, V-moda, SOUL, SMS (50 cent), etc.


 


 I'm not sure it's fair to group V-MODA in with those other guys. V-MODA products are really good headphones that happen to be fashionable - not the other way around.


----------



## GrenZeiram

I originally posted this here: PC True 5.1 Headsets on Consoles

Someone said I should post it here, so here it is!

I recently decided to give some of the random true 5.1/Optical devices that are available with some PC true 5.1 headsets after I saw the Sewell SoundBox 
that had an optical input and output. I figured it might work on the PS4/XBone, but unfortunately it did not.

It worked great with my PC using both ROCCAT 5.1 headset and the CM Storm Serious S 5.1 headset. From what I can tell, the Sewell SoundBox uses the USB on the PC as an external sound card, so on consoles, just using the optical cable won't get sound. I thought maybe I could use it hooked up to my PC and mix the optical input from the consoles, but that was a big fail.

So I returned the SoundBox and ordered Panlong 5.1 Audio Gear Digital Sound Decoder 
It arrived and I hooked it up to both the PS4 and XBone and both worked, but only worked with the CM Storm Serious S 5.1 headset. The ROCCAT will only work with a PC, as it needed to install drivers for it to work with my PC, so I took that headset out of the running for testing and just stuck with the CM Storm.

I started up a game and watched the title screen, and right away noticed objects coming from the left, the sound was coming from the right! I thought maybe I had the headset on backwards, but no, I didn't, then I thought I had the 3.5mm plugs in the wrong ports, so I moved them around, but still anything visually coming from left or right, the sound would come from the opposite direction.

So I sent that back, and ordered a different one, but from a different vendor, RioRand,

It basically is the same exact thing, came in the same style box and all of the same accessories. Only difference was that it did not have "RioRand" printed on it, where the Panlong version had it's logo on the device. Plugged everything in and %$! same issue as the other, sound not coming from the right speakers, everything reversed.

This was looking to be an experiment that wasn't going to work, using true 5.1 PC headsets on consoles, other than ones specifically made for consoles.

I sent that back and googled around for other options, when I found this one on ebay:


It looked different, but has the same overall idea.
Only took 1 week to arrive from China, and once I got it, I hooked it up, and wasn't expecting anything other than the same results as the other two 5.1 converters, but this one actually worked! Objects from the right came their sound came from the right, things behind me came from behind! I was surprised this one worked, and am happy with the sound queues I've heard so far.

I've not been able to test this with the mic yet, but I don't think I'll have any issues as it will plug directly into the headset adapter for the XBone. Not sure what to do yet on the PS4 for the mic, but think I'll figure something out. I need to test in more games, I was just using Titanfall last night to test the latest one out.

I know there is plenty of debate on true 5.1 vs virtual 5.1 for many reasons, but I like to try things out and see how it all sounds.

I'll update as I test this out with the CM Storm and the 5.1 converter.

My main headset is the Audio-Technica ADG1 with the MixAmp 5.8 and love how they sound together. I wanted to try out some true 5.1 headsets for comparison, so I'll keep the CM Storm headset and see how it works with other games.


----------



## Stillhart

frankefrum said:


> So, I just pulled the trigger, somewhat impulsively, on the Fidelio X1 headphones and Fiio E12 portable amp to go with my mix amp 5.8... Does anyone have any experience/feedback on this combination? Please post some feedback. Thanks!


 

 Sweet combo, you'll love it!  Don't forget a V-moda Boompro for chatting...


----------



## Stillhart

Oh it's ON! 
  
http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/9/5791360/turtle-beach-ps4-headsets-coming-this-fall
  
http://corp.turtlebeach.com/media-resources/releases/releases-detail/153/turtle-beach-brings-new-line-of-feature-reach-playstation4-headsets-to-e3
  
 Turtle Beach is putting out a bunch of headphones DTS Headphone X and a controller unit, which doesn't specifically state whether or not it does DTS.  But man, that $300 unit is insane on paper.  It must have **** sound to pack in all those cool features (DTS, magnetic charging, Bluetooth for phones, active noise cancelling, wireless, etc).
  
 From the Forbes page:  "Turtle Beach also has a slick answer to Astro’s MixAmp in the form of the Elite Tournament Audio Controller (TAC). Compatible with PS4, PS3, Xbox 360, PC, and Macs, it has a ridiculous list of features tailored to professional gamers and gameplay broadcasters. Stuff like Dolby AC3 decoding, DTS Headphone:X 7.1 surround, sliders for mixing game and chat audio, background noise limiters, audio presets, and auxiliary inputs for plugging in a mobile device or mixing in music from an external source. Interestingly, Turtle Beach says they plan to integrate the audio controller’s features into future tournament-level headsets. So the TAC is designed primarily for gamers with existing headsets who want the extended functionality."
  
 Notice it's compatible with Consoles AND PC/Mac, which is rare.  Very cool!


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Notice it's compatible with Consoles AND PC/Mac, which is rare.  Very cool!


 
  
 OK, I'm interested. Going to request a review model from Turtle Beach. Time to bust out those press credentials!


----------



## SoAmusing777

If anyone is interested... I'm selling my K702 Annies. Link to post is in my sig.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> OK, I'm interested. Going to request a review model from Turtle Beach. Time to bust out those press credentials!


 

 Membership has its privileges... hopefully!


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> OK, I'm interested. Going to request a review model from Turtle Beach. Time to bust out those press credentials!




Oh that'd be amazing


----------



## Change is Good

In anticipation of my K612 returning, tomorrow, I may be on the brink of selling them. I already returned my Momentum on-ears (60 day return policy w/sonicelectronix), since I found myself barely using them... and sold my E12 (no need for a portable amp, anymore)...




axelcloris said:


> OK, I'm interested. Going to request a review model from Turtle Beach. Time to bust out those press credentials!




Axel, I hope you get good news in return. I'm intrigued by that little device TB has in the works...


----------



## AxelCloris

Just submitted a news release to the website for the Turtle Beach products, but I doubt it contains any new information you guys haven't already read. And today (the 9th) is going to be a good day as the media embargo on a couple products will be lifted and I can talk about some cool things that are coming down the gaming pipe. I just have to wait for the right time before I can talk about them publicly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tus-chan said:


> I'm not sure it's fair to group V-MODA in with those other guys. V-MODA products are really good headphones that happen to be fashionable - not the other way around.



Oh, I absolutely loved demoing the M80 and M100. I'm saying I don't have a desire to buy/try them for the purpose of gaming, etc. I personally don't care for V-moda's styling.

Change, wth man, why getting rid of all your stuff again? because of your Soundmagic? You really are worse than me, lol.

I've been stuck on my Pioneer soundbar and my Ultrasone 15G. Literally not much else I need, though I'm still salivating for the 400i.

Just really wish my 15G had a detachable cable.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Oh it's ON!
> 
> http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/9/5791360/turtle-beach-ps4-headsets-coming-this-fall
> 
> ...




Awaiting Astro response to that.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Change, wth man, why getting rid of all your stuff again? because of your Soundmagic? You really are worse than me, lol.



If the HP200 is as good as the HP100, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm extremely impressed with the 100's. The 200's will be my next buy when I get the urge to experiment again (not anytime soon tho!)


----------



## Murder Mike

totoori said:


> Thanks a ton I will look a little deeper.
> 
> Maybe I am a little confused- but you mention the SBZ as an alternative to the ModMic... are you talking about SBZ and one of the $5 mics?


 
  
 If you want something a little nicer, you could always splurge for either of these. They'll should perform just as well if not better than the mod mic. 
  
Samson Go Mic
Blue Snowball iCE


----------



## SonnyA85

What's better for gaming out of HD595, HD558 or Fidelio X1?
  
 Out of those 3 what are the best and why?


----------



## Stillhart

sonnya85 said:


> What's better for gaming out of HD595, HD558 or Fidelio X1?
> 
> Out of those 3 what are the best and why?


 
 You should be able to easily determine the answer to that by reading the respective sections of the guide.  Here's a hint:  the X1.


----------



## SonnyA85

stillhart said:


> You should be able to easily determine the answer to that by reading the respective sections of the guide.  Here's a hint:  the X1.


 
 The 595 is better than the X1 for competitive gaming the X1 for immersive.
  
 Was really wondering about competitive gaming and whether the HD558 is better than the HD595.


----------



## AxelCloris

Now that the embargo has lifted, I can talk about the SteelSeries Sentry Eye Tracker. Woot!
  
 In a nutshell, it's a new interface device that lets you control your computer mouse with your eyes. It is also a gaming coach to train your body to improve your gaming by tracking and analyzing your Fixations Per Minute, or FPM.
  
 Combine that with the new Turtle Beach products, we could have some amazing gaming experiences.


----------



## Stillhart

sonnya85 said:


> The 595 is better than the X1 for competitive gaming the X1 for immersive.
> 
> Was really wondering about competitive gaming and whether the HD558 is better than the HD595.


 
  
 So if you actually know a bit about these, it's always better to ask a more specific question.  Nobody wants to bother with a "which is the best" question with no context around it.  Just a tip for next time.
  
 As I haven't heard the Senn's, I can't comment on which is better for competitive gaming.  I'll make a bold prediction, though, and state that you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test.  Just get one and enjoy yourself.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> *Change, wth man, why getting rid of all your stuff again? because of your Soundmagic? You really are worse than me, lol.*
> 
> I've been stuck on my Pioneer soundbar and my Ultrasone 15G. Literally not much else I need, though I'm still salivating for the 400i.
> 
> Just really wish my 15G had a detachable cable.


 
  
 Well, the Momentums were barely getting any head time, so the $160 just felt better in my wallet. I find myself going for my IEMs more often on the go, and with this summer heat it's almost unbearable wearing anything over my ears when outside.
  
 As for why I'm probably selling the K612? Well, you're right on that part, the HP200 is very much so the reason why. It is also the reason why I sold the E12, since I now have no need for such a juicy portable amp. While it does enhance the sound to whatever I attach it to, I now have a personal preference for less bulk on anything portable. So, this was just another example of money fairing better in my wallet... due to the E12 never getting any use, as of late....
  
  


stillhart said:


> If the HP200 is as good as the HP100, I wouldn't be surprised. I'm extremely impressed with the 100's. The 200's will be my next buy when I get the urge to experiment again (not anytime soon tho!)


 
  
 As good as the HP100? Try better, my friend... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





... and arguably better than your Q701, as well. It is slightly better than the K612, in my opinion, which I actually like much more than the Q701. All of matter of preference, of course...
  
 I will be back with more details after I spend a few hours comparing the two, while writing this paper for my politics class. As of now, my assumptions of the HP200 and K612 are correct, and proves that my memory serves me right. It's as if SoundMAGIC purposely tried to mimic AKG's house sound into this headphone...


----------



## SonnyA85

stillhart said:


> So if you actually know a bit about these, it's always better to ask a more specific question.  Nobody wants to bother with a "which is the best" question with no context around it.  Just a tip for next time.
> 
> As I haven't heard the Senn's, I can't comment on which is better for competitive gaming.  I'll make a bold prediction, though, and state that you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test.  Just get one and enjoy yourself.


 
  
  
 I already own all 3 headphones.
  
 I bought the X1's and HD558's brand new and the HD595's second hand.
  
 The HD558's should be arriving tomorrow. I have been using the 595's for 2-3 months now for competitive and the X1's for music/movies only.
  
 The 595's are far better for competitive gaming than the X1's.
  
 I was told I could mod 558's to 598's but I now believe that isn't true, or that the mod makes their bass loose and it's better stock even though soundstage improves with the mod.
  
 The fact is I want to get rid of the 595's as I bought them second hand. I was wondering if the 558's would be better/worse or the same as 595's, when stock without the mod.
  
 I paid £15 more than I did for my 595's for brand new 558's. The X1 cost me the same as both of those headphones combined brand new.
  
 I love the X1's but for competitive gaming they suck compared to the 595's.
  
 I suppose I will need to just test them for myself and see but apparently the 558's require 100 hours of burn in before they really open up and sound their best.
  
 I suppose I should've just asked for competitive gaming what is better the HD558's (stock) or HD595's?
  
 I should of also maybe asked for opinions on modding 558's and whether or not I should mod them?
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/old-and-new-hd555-hd558-hd598/
  
 they say HD558 should be left stock and it's better than the HD598 for gaming, music and movies but I think that's because the HD558 has more bass than the HD598's.
  
 Either way I think they will be my new gaming set and sell the second hand HD595's meaning I "upgraded/sidegraded" to brand new 558's for £15 if I manage to sell them for what I paid for them.


----------



## Stillhart

stillhart said:


> I'll make a bold prediction, though, and state that you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test.


 
  
  


sonnya85 said:


> I already own all 3 headphones.


 
  
 Looking forward to hearing the results of your blind test.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, the main difference between the HP200 and K612, so far, is that the HP200 has more bass presence at the exchange of soundstage depth and width. SoundMAGIC came real close, but to no avail due to the immense soundstage that AKG manages to pull off. As a result, the HP200 sounds like a semi open rather than fully open when compared to something as such. I wonder if that is due to the stock pleathers and alcantaras I use on the HP200, which don't allow as much air to pass through like velours. I may have to buy some Shure velours in the future to try out...

The rest of the timbre is surprisingly very similar, however. Big ups to SoundMAGiC on this wonderful headphone.

*comparison was done with stock pads on both*

K612 is up for sale, and so are the K702 pads. Save a couple bucks and get an extra cable if bought as a bundle.

I'll be doing more analyzing and comparing as the days pass. I know the classifieds have been slow, as of late...

Edit: Also, the K612 is almost twice as hard to drive.


----------



## tmaxx123

stillhart said:


> Oh it's ON!
> 
> http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/9/5791360/turtle-beach-ps4-headsets-coming-this-fall
> 
> ...


 
 oh wow, cant wait for that, hopefully it works well


----------



## Fegefeuer

Cool news!
  
 I expect good SQ for that price.


----------



## Yethal

Last time I asked You guys whether the 558 are better than K612 for competitive and You told ,e that k612 were a better choice. So now I gotta ask are 598 better choice than the k612? I have an amp to drive both of them so that is not a factor


----------



## SonnyA85

yethal said:


> Last time I asked You guys whether the 558 are better than K612 for competitive and You told ,e that k612 were a better choice. So now I gotta ask are 598 better choice than the k612? I have an amp to drive both of them so that is not a factor


 
 Lot's of guys on here simply regurgitate what they have read rather than what they know for a fact.
  
 The 598's suit competitive gaming to a T, it's in their sound signature.
  
 For competitive gaming you want a can with very little bass, clear and detailed mids and not an overly bright treble.
  
 The 598's , AD700, 595 and Q701 are some of the best competitive gaming cans you can buy. The Q701 require a very powerful amp so they aren't really recommended, they are also very expensive.
  
 595 and ad700 are the cheapest and easy to drive but they are only available second hand.
  
 I wanted the 598's but I opted for the 558's to save 1/3rd off the price. The 558's use the same driver as the 598's just different housing which changes the sound they produce slightly.
  
 It's not worse than the 598's just different and can be modded. I should have the 558's today and compare them with 595's (the older brother of 598's). The 598's blow my fidelio x1's away for competitive gaming yet people on here think the X1 is amazing. It's good as an all rounder if you can only afford one headphone for gaming, music and movies. but people who can buy more than one phone should only use it for music/movies and get one of the others I have mentioned.
  
 Headfonia say the stock 558 beats a stock 555 and a modded 558 beats a stock 555 too. It's a pity they didn't test against a stock 595 or a modded 555, but the stock 555 is similar to a 595 anyway.
 So I think a stock 558 is all you need for competitive gaming. I will know for sure within the next 24 hours. Postie is bringing them any second now.
  
 The 558 uses the same drivers as a 598, your paying extra for the housing on the 598 which tightens everything up slightly.


----------



## thebanik

I was about to start a thread but I guess this would be a better place to ask my question, which is simply which sound card/dac/amp should I buy purely for competitive gaming? And any of these dolby/EAX software etc. do they really help?
  
 I do have AD700 but one of the cups went bad last month, used to move around the cable and it started working but now it has stopped working completely. Currently using ATH-M50 but they are not suitable for gaming at all. Though I would have asked for headphones as well, but after reading this thread I guess I got a decent picture of what to pick. Still if you have a suggestion please feel free to provide.
  
 For music and movies I have a whole amp/receiver/speaker setup sorted out.


----------



## SonnyA85

thebanik said:


> I was about to start a thread but I guess this would be a better place to ask my question, which is simply which sound card/dac/amp should I buy purely for competitive gaming? And any of these dolby/EAX software etc. do they really help?
> 
> I do have AD700 but one of the cups went bad last month, used to move around the cable and it started working but now it has stopped working completely. Currently using ATH-M50 but they are not suitable for gaming at all. Though I would have asked for headphones as well, but after reading this thread I guess I got a decent picture of what to pick. Still if you have a suggestion please feel free to provide.
> 
> For music and movies I have a whole amp/receiver/speaker setup sorted out.


 
 I take it you game on PC?
  
 You don't need a DAC/AMP unless you want to use the PC for music/movies.
  
 If you using 100ohms or less then just get an asus xonar dg.
  
 The M50's are overhyped on here, they are rubbish, well not rubbish but you can get a lot better headphones for the money.
  
 Competitive headphones look no further than ad700(x), hd595, hd558, hd598 tbh for your needs.
  
 For music and movies get fidelio X1's.
  
 If you want a decent all rounder then get DT770's


----------



## SonnyA85

Just to post a quick update.
  
 There is a difference in sound between the HD595 and HD558. I have never tested the 598 but I reckon I know what it sounds like going off reviews and listening to the 558 and 595.
  
 Basically the 598 has all the good points of both the 595 and 598 with none of the bad.
  
  
 For competitive gaming 598>595>558>X1 but the difference is small.
  
 I would rate the 598  a 9/10 for competitive gaming, 595 a 8.75/10, the 558 a 8.5/10 with the Fidelio X1's a 8/10 there's not much in it as you can see.
  
 For music/movies I would rate the Fidelio X1's as a 9/10, 558 as a 8.75/10, 598 a 8/10 and the 595 as a 7.5/10.
  
 The 595's are brilliant for the money, sadly the ones I bought were second hand and therefore in the end I always wanted brand new. If i could get the 598's for cheap I would but they are £125 here new (one day only) otherwise £150+ usually.
  
 I paid £80 for my 558's new which is 2/3rds of the price of 598's. Paid £65 for 595's second hand. Paid £140 for my Fidelio X1's brand new.
  
  
 If I could get brand new 595's for £80 I would kept them but they have a slight crack, wear and tear on the headband, etc due to being second hand. The 558's though are very similar and for me better (i like bass and it has slightly better bass), brand new in mint condition. They also look a lot better.
  
 The only reason to get the 598 over the 558 is if you really do prefer the look of them and want to pay extra for the look the difference in sound is slight and subtle.


----------



## Yethal

sonnya85 said:


> Lot's of guys on here simply regurgitate what they have read rather than what they know for a fact.
> 
> The 598's suit competitive gaming to a T, it's in their sound signature.
> 
> ...




I get it, but as I've said before where I live 558are priced identically to akg k612 which afaik are also very good. Since I can only afford onepair of really good cans I'd like to be sure that I'm getting the best pair for my money. There is a small price gap between 598 and k612 so between these two pairs, which one is more competitive? I know i'm probably annoying but I'm just entering this crazy new place calle audiophile.


----------



## thebanik

sonnya85 said:


> I take it you game on PC?
> 
> You don't need a DAC/AMP unless you want to use the PC for music/movies.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yup on PC. Are you sure Xonar DG will work for positional surround sound for headphones? Thats all I want. Would be great, would save me hell lot of money.
  
 Well looking at HD598, so just checking again, Xonar DG + HD598 would work decently for gaming???


----------



## MonarchX

Do most people agree on the rating given to Sennheiser HD-280 Pro monitoring headphones in the OP? I use them with ASUS Xonar DGX with UNi drivers & updated Dolby Headphone 7.1 Shifter profile. Before that I was using X-Fi Titanium with Astro A50 and A40 with Dolby Digital Live. To my ears, Sennheiser HD-280 Pro + ASUS Xonar DGX combination sounds massively better than X-Fi Titanium + Astro A50/A40. I know many dislike Dolby Headphone, but aside from that, stereo quality from HD-280 Pro's is just clearer, making me hear sounds I haven't heard before from the exact same games.
  
 I am not an audiophile and can't tell if there is a minor/mild difference between two sets of headphones, but I can tell when there is a big difference. Although headphone specs alone don't represent the overall sound quality, they do matter and Astro A50/A40 specs are worse than Sennheiser HD-280 Pro specs. As far as being competitive, I can always tell where the sound is coming from and how far away it is with UNi drivers that include a corrected/much improved 7.1 Shifter Dolby Headphone profile. I know A50's cost way more than HD-280's and X-Fi Titanium is also higher-priced than Xonar DGX, but a lot of "gamer" components and hardware are mainly over-priced gimmicks. In addition to all that, I've practiced piano in an evening after-school music school for 5 years that trained my hearing, but obviously didn't train it enough as I was a good, but a clinical/technical player, unable to ever play a movie tune from memory...Anyway, IMHO, Sennheiser HD-280 Pro > Astro A40 > Astro A50. I do think that Astro A50/A40 greatly benefited from the DAC/Amp that they came with. It is why I exchanged X-Fi Titanium on ASUS Xonar DGX - to better match HD-280 Pro 64ohm impedance.
  
 Surround sound/positional sound is also more vivid on HD-280's than on A50's/A40's, although A50's/A40's did not produce as much echo/reverberation, but performed the same old Dolby Headphone downmixing from 5.1 to stereo that Xonar DGX performed. Without UNi drivers, Dolby Headphone sounded rather bad though.


----------



## SonnyA85

yethal said:


> I get it, but as I've said before where I live 558are priced identically to akg k612 which afaik are also very good. Since I can only afford onepair of really good cans I'd like to be sure that I'm getting the best pair for my money. There is a small price gap between 598 and k612 so between these two pairs, which one is more competitive? I know i'm probably annoying but I'm just entering this crazy new place calle audiophile.


 
  
  
 See below, I would get HD 558's and mod them.
  


thebanik said:


> Yup on PC. Are you sure Xonar DG will work for positional surround sound for headphones? Thats all I want. Would be great, would save me hell lot of money.
> 
> Well looking at HD598, so just checking again, Xonar DG + HD598 would work decently for gaming???


 
  
 I have the Xonar DG and it has an option for dolby surround sound, it has a built in amp for headphones up to say 100ohms.
  
 By the way the HD558 and HD598 use the same drivers.
  
 They are essentially the exact same thing in a different package.
  
 Also you can mod the 558's to sound like HD598's. Headfonia made this article
  
 http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
  
So, for those of you who dig black color, or want to save some money, here is how you can turn the HD558 to a HD598 twin brother (very close, but not quite a 100% identical).
  
Opening up the HD558 and the HD598, I noticed that the two drivers looked very similar. And looking at the part number, they are indeed identical! Then I moved my attention to the housing. The housing construction is mostly similar, with the biggest difference being the black rubber tape material in the middle of the HD558 driver screen. So I tried to remove that. After removal, you’re left with a very similar housing screen that differs slightly in their honeycomb structure. I left the rest of the housing intact, and installed back the housing and the pads.
  
  
So how does it sound? Removing the black tape material gives the HD558 the boost in midrange that it didn’t have before. It’s almost similar to the HD598, except that the HD558 now has just a tad more midrange than the HD598. Just a tad more, and it’s probably better in my opinion. The two headphones now sound like they are the same model but offered in different color schemes!

*Update:*
 After more listening, I can outline the main difference between the stock HD598 and the modded HD558. The HD598 is slightly brighter sounding, and the treble feels more open with more linear extension to the top frequency. I don’t know why this is so, considering they have the same driver, the better housing construction of the HD598 doesn’t get in the way of the driver potential of showing a more open treble. On the other hand, the modded HD558 has slightly more bottom end body for a weightier vocal and more punchy bass. I think the advantage of the modded HD558 will be more beneficial for the majority of music listeners, while the more open HD598 treble only for instrumentals and classical listeners.

The soundstage performance of both headphones are very similar, and also very good. 

 

 

they then a few weeks later released this

 

http://www.headfonia.com/old-and-new-hd555-hd558-hd598/

 

it's funny how the completely backtracked here, notice how they also don't compare modded 558's to 598's at the end like they did before? I think they were told off by sennheiser and had to release this basically.

 

modded 558's = very close to HD 598's

 the difference will be very very very small
  
 unless you like the colour of the 598's buy 558's and mod them it's the same thing, in a blind test you wouldn't know the difference.


----------



## Murder Mike

yethal said:


> I get it, but as I've said before where I live 558are priced identically to akg k612 which afaik are also very good. Since I can only afford onepair of really good cans I'd like to be sure that I'm getting the best pair for my money. There is a small price gap between 598 and k612 so between these two pairs, which one is more competitive? I know i'm probably annoying but I'm just entering this crazy new place calle audiophile.


 
  
 You have the amp to easily drive the K612. I would take those for a spin. You're not likely to be disappointed.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> You have the amp to easily drive the K612. I would take those for a spin. You're not likely to be disappointed.


 
 +1 I love em for everything, especially for gaming - they're amazing.


----------



## Change is Good

+2


----------



## benbenkr

K612 > HD558, on all areas, period.
  
 It's one whole step up above the HD558. So given the same price, there's really no reason to get the HD558 to be quite honest.
  
 The only thing is, the K612 is a lot harder to drive than the HD558. So the amp is going to add to the cost there, the HD558 runs fine out of a phone even.


----------



## Change is Good

Lol all this K612 praise has me thinking twice about selling mine...


----------



## Stillhart

sonnya85 said:


> *Lot's of guys on here simply regurgitate what they have read rather than what they know for a fact.*
> 
> The 598's suit competitive gaming to a T, it's in their sound signature.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Okay, so why are you in here asking disingenuous questions if you know everything already?
  
 And just to point out a few things:  1 - I always state whether or not I've heard something I'm talking about.  1.5 -
 "Know for a fact"?  This hobby is all about opinions.  2 - Q701 requires an amp, it doesn't require "a very powerful amp".  They're also dirt cheap used.  You can get them on AWD for $140.  3 - Nobody has ever said the X1 is amazing for competitive gaming.  The reason everyone recommends it is because, as you said, it's a great all-arounder.  When you came in and asked your stupid ******* question with no context, of course we're going to recommend the better all-arounder.
  
 tl;dr - We can call you out on your ******** too, so check your facts if you're going to act high and mighty.


----------



## Change is Good

Lol wut?


----------



## appsmarsterx

well.. 612pro is far more refined headphone with fantastic dynamics and transparency, comparing with 598.. imho, it even outclass X1 too. 
  
 612pro  > X1 > 598 > 558


----------



## Yethal

Ok, based on all of Your opinions I'll go with AKG K612. I hope their music performance is on par with their gaming performance, I'd rather have one awesome pair of headphones instead of few with different applications.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Lol all this K612 praise has me thinking twice about selling mine...


 
  
 Based off my experience with the Q701 and the HP100, I suspect you're right that the HP200 is better than the K612.  Since I haven't heard either, I can't say for sure, obviously.


----------



## Change is Good

I wouldn't necessarily say, now after further comparing, that one is better than the other. Both have a very similar tone... with minimal tradeoffs. HP200 has a bit more bass, while the K612 has a wider soundstage.

Efficiency is the main reason why I'm choosing the HP200. Dat AKG soundstage, DOE! Decisions decisions...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Efficiency is the main reason why I'm choosing the HP200. Dat AKG soundstage, DOE! Decisions decisions...


 
  

  
 Soundstage doe.


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## Silverwind

Thanks for the great thread, I have read through tons of pages.
 I have some logitech headphones now that I have had for a few years, they are falling apart so I need some new ones.
  
 What would you guys recommend based on the following:
 1. PC Desktop use - 80% gaming 20% music.
 2. Mix of PC games not just FPS.  I don't play competitive matches anymore not enough time, but I like to get into a serious rumble now and then on public servers.
 3. Powered off of Soundblaster Z
 4. Wife gets bugged by a lot of sound, so they need to be closed or not leak sound real bad. I typically listen at lower volumes anyhow so maybe even with open she won't get bugged?  My current headphones if I take them off and set them on the desk I can't hear anything out of them while music is playing.
 5. Does not need to have a mic I can add one later.
 6. Budget? Would like to be under $200 for the headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

silverwind said:


> Thanks for the great thread, I have read through tons of pages.
> I have some logitech headphones now that I have had for a few years, they are falling apart so I need some new ones.
> 
> What would you guys recommend based on the following:
> ...


 
  
 At under $200 with no amping needed, my recommendations are the SoundMAGIC HP200 or HP100. Can't go wrong with either, just a matter of preference whether you want an open neutral sound, or closed and slightly v-shaped/fun experience.


----------



## MonarchX

Bah... I get this odd sensation that my last port was just ignored...


----------



## Murder Mike

monarchx said:


> Bah... I get this odd sensation that my last port was just ignored...


 
 Not a lot of people have experience with that specific combination of products and there's not a lot written about the HD280 in regards to gaming aside from MLEs review. I've seen numerous reviews of people complaining about the HD280s clamp though, so that's enough to write them off entirely in my book. 
  
 Also, with all things in this hobby, YMMV. Additionally, this needs to be said too many times.
  


> *I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.*


----------



## Change is Good

You were making a statement, not asking questions. Didn't know you were expecting a reply. Please forgive us, master...



monarchx said:


> Bah... I get this odd sensation that my last port was just ignored...




Hey.... at least this one wasn't ignored! Don't getcha' panties all in a bunch...  happens all the time...




murder mike said:


> Not a lot of people have experience with that specific combination of products and there's not a lot written about the HD280 in regards to gaming aside from MLEs review. I've seen numerous reviews of people complaining about the HD280s clamp though, so that's enough to write them off entirely in my book.
> 
> Also, with all things in this hobby, YMMV. Additionally, this needs to be said too many times.




^what he said


----------



## MonarchX

murder mike said:


> Not a lot of people have experience with that specific combination of products and there's not a lot written about the HD280 in regards to gaming aside from MLEs review. I've seen numerous reviews of people complaining about the HD280s clamp though, so that's enough to write them off entirely in my book.
> 
> Also, with all things in this hobby, YMMV. Additionally, this needs to be said too many times.


 
 Clamp as in squeezing your head too tight? I only had that for 2 weeks, but when I took them off, I placed a wide box between the drives and that spread them wide enough not to break. Now they are very comfy, cause no pressure around my ears, and sound terrific. Hand-band was a slight issue but only because I didn't take my time to properly put it together and once I did, it completely stopped falling off.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/588710/the-notorious-sennheiser-hd280-pro-review is a great review I just found! These headphones may not be as good as top-end Sennheiser headphones, but rating them BELOW Astro A40's and on the level of A50's is just wrong as both A40's and A50's don't even come close to HD-280's in regards to the sound quality.. Considering their cost, they are probably the best sounding sub-$100 headphones out there! Now they are like $80 and they outperform Astro A40's and Astro A50's that are 3x as expensive!
  
 Is that the MLE review you were talking about? If not, could you, please, point me to it?


----------



## Change is Good

monarchx said:


> Clamp as in squeezing your head too tight? I only had that for 2 weeks, but when I took them off, I placed a wide box between the drives and that spread them wide enough not to break. Now they are very comfy, cause no pressure around my ears, and sound terrific. Hand-band was a slight issue but only because I didn't take my time to properly put it together and once I did, it completely stopped falling off.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/588710/the-notorious-sennheiser-hd280-pro-review is a great review I just found! These headphones may not be as good as top-end Sennheiser headphones, but rating them BELOW Astro A40's and on the level of A50's is just wrong as both A40's and A50's don't even come close to HD-280's in regards to the sound quality.. Considering their cost, they are probably the best sounding sub-$100 headphones out there! Now they are like $80 and they outperform Astro A40's and Astro A50's that are 3x as expensive!
> 
> *Is that the MLE review you were talking about? If not, could you, please, point me to it?*


----------



## Murder Mike

monarchx said:


> Is that the MLE review you were talking about? If not, could you, please, point me to it?


 
  
 No, just *M*ad* L*ust *E*nvy's very brief review on the OP.


----------



## Change is Good

murder mike said:


> No, just *M*ad *L*ust *E*nvy's very brief review on the OP.




You're ruining all the fun, Mike!


----------



## Murder Mike

change is good said:


> You're ruining all the fun, Mike!


 
 Sorry, I'll leave now.


----------



## Moosecraft

Have you heard the Mad dog pro? I haven't been able to find much info on it :/


----------



## Stillhart

silverwind said:


> Thanks for the great thread, I have read through tons of pages.
> I have some logitech headphones now that I have had for a few years, they are falling apart so I need some new ones.
> 
> What would you guys recommend based on the following:
> ...


 
  
 Sound leakage is a pretty minor thing, even on my Q701's.  I mean, my wife can hear that there's sound coming out, but at sane volumes, it's just a little background noise.  It's not even close to the same as, for example, listening through speakers set as low as possible (while still being able to hear it).  I wouldn't worry about it unless you plan on e.g. listening in bed at night.  For desktop gaming, shouldn't be an issue.
  
 SBZ has a decent DAC and Amp built-in, so you'll get adequate volume from any of the "needs an amp" headphones.  Something like the Q701 sounds even better with an amp, but you won't need it simply for volume levels, like you would with a Mixamp.
  
 SBZ also comes with a pretty decent desktop mic, so I wouldn't worry about boompro compatibility or anything like that.
  
 So yeah, there are plenty of options under $200 that will sound great for your purposes.  I agree with Change that the SoundMAGIC ones might work for you (I recommend grabbing a cheap refurb off AWD).  HD598, Fidelio X1 (used), K612, Q701, etc etc.  Seriously, pretty much anything that looks good in the guide will probably work for you.


----------



## Stillhart

moosecraft said:


> Have you heard the Mad dog pro? I haven't been able to find much info on it :/


 
  
 People who have heard it say it sounds pretty much halfway between the MD and the AD.


----------



## Change is Good

I asked MLE if Dan was going to send those in for review, eventually. Still on that hiatus, homie?

I've read it has a soundstage size in between the AD and MD, with the most bass presence of the three.


----------



## thebanik

sonnya85 said:


> I have the Xonar DG and it has an option for dolby surround sound, it has a built in amp for headphones up to say 100ohms.


 
   
Sonny just before ordering saw that DG is a PCI card, dont have a PCI slot, have only PCIe. So the DGX which I read is equivalent to DG will really be the same? Should I go ahead and order the DGX?

  
 Sonny, thanks for all your replies, I am now either buying 558 or may pick a used 598 from a friend who is thinking of selling them. It will cost the same to me, used 598 = new 558. I guess thats ok deal?


----------



## Silverwind

stillhart said:


> Sound leakage is a pretty minor thing, even on my Q701's.  I mean, my wife can hear that there's sound coming out, but at sane volumes, it's just a little background noise.  It's not even close to the same as, for example, listening through speakers set as low as possible (while still being able to hear it).  I wouldn't worry about it unless you plan on e.g. listening in bed at night.  For desktop gaming, shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> SBZ has a decent DAC and Amp built-in, so you'll get adequate volume from any of the "needs an amp" headphones.  Something like the Q701 sounds even better with an amp, but you won't need it simply for volume levels, like you would with a Mixamp.
> 
> ...


 


 Crossed my fingers and bought some Fidelio X1 headphones, wish me luck!  (it was on amazon listed as "like new")


----------



## Stillhart

silverwind said:


> Crossed my fingers and bought some Fidelio X1 headphones, wish me luck!  (it was on amazon listed as "like new")


Sweet, can't go wrong with the X1 IMO. They're a great all-arounder and really fun. If you find the bass to be too loose, an amp helps.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Question for you guys related to the XBOX One ... In the PS3/PS4 you can watch blu-ray movies with Dolby Headphone by switching to "bitstream mix" is there a similar option on the XBOX One that enables the same thing? 
  
 Insight appreciated on the matter as Im trying to decide which system to get and this might just be the deciding factor as I watch a lot of late night movies hooked up to headphones...


----------



## Yethal

PS3/4 can do that?


----------



## Jason Bourne

yethal said:


> PS3/4 can do that?


 
 Yeah for blu-rays that are DTS only you can get Dolby Digital signals by selecting "bitstream mix" in the menu on the PS3/PS4. Im wondering if there is a similar option on the XBOX One...


----------



## Silverwind

stillhart said:


> Sweet, can't go wrong with the X1 IMO. They're a great all-arounder and really fun. If you find the bass to be too loose, an amp helps.




I am going to order the monoprice "mobile audio" 3.5mm cable for the headphones. The price is right.


----------



## SonnyA85

thebanik said:


> Sonny just before ordering saw that DG is a PCI card, dont have a PCI slot, have only PCIe. So the DGX which I read is equivalent to DG will really be the same? Should I go ahead and order the DGX?
> 
> Sonny, thanks for all your replies, I am now either buying 558 or may pick a used 598 from a friend who is thinking of selling them. It will cost the same to me, used 598 = new 558. I guess thats ok deal?


 
  
 if you can get a HD 598 for the same price as a HD 558 then it's a no brainer, buy a used one and you can either clean the pads or replace them.
  
 As for the sound card if it's for gaming only you can even use Asus U3 which is USB, it doesn't sound as good as the DG or DGX but it is good enough.
  
 If you want to play high fidelity music as well these sound cards are good for the money, but in future you may want to upgrade to a DAC/AMP. For gaming though a cheap asus sound card with built in headphone amp is all you need.
  
 I would also use the "unified drivers" from here
  
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 the official drivers are rubbish


----------



## Yethal

Hey huys, have You seen Astro's E3 presentation. They've announced A50 usb wireless transmitter for about 40$. It has the same functionality as the existing one but it's usb only and cheaper.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sonnya85 said:


> if you can get a HD 598 for the same price as a HD 558 then it's a no brainer, buy a used one and you can either clean the pads or replace them.
> 
> As for the sound card if it's for gaming only you can even use Asus U3 which is USB, it doesn't sound as good as the DG or DGX but it is good enough.
> 
> ...




The Xonar U3 = external Xonar DG, FWIR. Not sure how correct that statement is, but signs point to it being true.

And Change, yes, hiatus. I have no desire to try/review any headphones up until I try the HE-400i. Someone could send me an SR009 and I still wouldn't want to try/review it. I'm not going to spend any money on this hobby for a good while. The HE-400i may or may not happen, leaning on WON'T.


----------



## SonnyA85

mad lust envy said:


> The Xonar U3 = external Xonar DG, FWIR. Not sure how correct that statement is, but signs point to it being true.
> 
> And Change, yes, hiatus. I have no desire to try/review any headphones up until I try the HE-400i. Someone could send me an SR009 and I still wouldn't want to try/review it. I'm not going to spend any money on this hobby for a good while. The HE-400i may or may not happen, leaning on WON'T.


 
 http://techreport.com/review/21256/asus-xonar-u3-usb-audio-device/2
  
 DG is better


----------



## DJDREEM

Are the K702 65th Annie worth getting instead of the Q701 for gaming? I own the already. I play open word games and fps so I like immersive and spacious headphones that are nice and textured.


----------



## Murder Mike

djdreem said:


> Are the K702 65th Annie worth getting instead of the Q701 for gaming? I own the already. I play open word games and fps so I like immersive and spacious headphones that are nice and textured.


 
  
 You own what already?
  
 In my personal opinion, the smooth headband and memory foam ear pads make the K702 Annie worth it to me over the Q701. I wasn't happy with the the bumpy headband on the Q701. The ear pads are a preference thing, but they're around $70 separately, so you might as well have them included. Blue is also my favorite color, so it was an obvious choice.
  
 The Q701 can be found used for around $130 or $140 on the Amazon Warehouse. If you don't mind the headband, it's a very solid deal. If you picked up the memory foam pads later down the line, most people agree that you would have a headphone that sounds 99% like the Annies.


----------



## SonnyA85

The annies are nearly £400 here whereas the Q701 are around £200.
  
 IMO the Q701 are much much better in terms of value for money. It depends on how much you can get either for (brand new).


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> Yeah for blu-rays that are DTS only you can get Dolby Digital signals by selecting "bitstream mix" in the menu on the PS3/PS4. Im wondering if there is a similar option on the XBOX One...


 
  
 I have never tried on mine, sorry.  I use an AVR so I'm fine with either.
  


yethal said:


> Hey huys, have You seen Astro's E3 presentation. They've announced A50 usb wireless transmitter for about 40$. It has the same functionality as the existing one but it's usb only and cheaper.


 
  
 I haven't but I'll check it out.  I'm not sure what you're talking about with the transmitter tho.  Is that like a replacement in case you lose or break the one that comes with the A50?  Cus that's a pretty niche product to get excited about.  I was hoping for a new wireless Mixamp...


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> I have never tried on mine, sorry.  I use an AVR so I'm fine with either.
> 
> 
> I haven't but I'll check it out.  I'm not sure what you're talking about with the transmitter tho.  Is that like a replacement in case you lose or break the one that comes with the A50?  Cus that's a pretty niche product to get excited about.  I was hoping for a new wireless Mixamp...


 
 It's more like a cheaper replacement, it does dolby digital over usb. Handy if you're a pc gamer


----------



## Jason Bourne

jason bourne said:


> For blu-rays that are DTS only you can get Dolby Digital signals by selecting "bitstream mix" in the menu on the PS3/PS4. Im wondering if there is a similar option on the XBOX One...


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> Anyone?


 
  
 Not a lot of people in here with Xbox One as far as I know.  You might try asking over on the actual Xbox support forums?


----------



## Jason Bourne

stillhart said:


> Not a lot of people in here with Xbox One as far as I know.  You might try asking over on the actual Xbox support forums?


 
  
 Thanks for the replies. I guess your right, will give it a shot.


----------



## martin vegas

I just tried the headphone amp on the ps4 controller, it's quite good..i used hd439 and they sounded decent!


----------



## Kbman

Does anyone here use any of the AKG Q701 or K612 PRO or anything like that with the Astro Mixamp on PC or any of the Schiit amps? Interested in one of those combos...


----------



## Stillhart

kbman said:


> Does anyone here use any of the AKG Q701 or K612 PRO or anything like that with the Astro Mixamp on PC or any of the Schiit amps? Interested in one of those combos...


 

 If you're on a PC, it's cheaper and more effective to just get a sound card rather than a Mixamp.  I use the Q701 with Sound Blaster Omni and an amp and it sounds amazing for games and for music.


----------



## Kbman

Okay, well I mean I already have the Mixamp, but I was thinking a better sound card would be best anyways. I was also thinking about either the ATH-AD900x or Q701. I can't decide between the two and I've used neither. Anyone have both or either and care to add to what they think about them?


----------



## blackcoffeex1

Sorry if this has been covered over and over again, but is there anything out there you guys would recommend so far as good sound card solutions for PC laptops? Or are laptops a lost cause?


----------



## Narakuma

Was debating on getting a new set of headphones for gaming and was wondering if you would recommend using the AKG K550. I have read here that the K/Q 701 are highly recommended but would prefer a set of closed headphones. Currently been using my Sony MDR-v6 since the last gaming headset i had died.
  
 Main use would be for gaming, but I also watch stuff on netflix, hulu, music here and there. My computer also has a xonar dg inside and I own a fiio e17. So would like some help please. I don't do competitive gaming but do tent to play BF4. GW2 and a bunch of other stuff I bought off steam. That is all I can think of so would like some help please.


----------



## Murder Mike

blackcoffeex1 said:


> Sorry if this has been covered over and over again, but is there anything out there you guys would recommend so far as good sound card solutions for PC laptops? Or are laptops a lost cause?


 
  
 For something small and USB powered, the Xonar U3 is a good choice. For something a little larger and nicer, the Sound Blaster Omni is solid. If you wanted something for PC and consoles, the Recon3D USB will also work and is a bit smaller than the Omni. 
  


narakuma said:


> Was debating on getting a new set of headphones for gaming and was wondering if you would recommend using the AKG K550. I have read here that the K/Q 701 are highly recommended but would prefer a set of closed headphones. Currently been using my Sony MDR-v6 since the last gaming headset i had died.
> 
> Main use would be for gaming, but I also watch stuff on netflix, hulu, music here and there. My computer also has a xonar dg inside and I own a fiio e17. So would like some help please. I don't do competitive gaming but do tent to play BF4. GW2 and a bunch of other stuff I bought off steam. That is all I can think of so would like some help please.


 
  
 Soundmagic HP100 for closed. I think someone on here got a pair recently and had good things to say about them. The Brainwavz HM5 / NVX XPT100 is a solid choice if your budget isn't that high. The CAL (Creative Aurvana Live!) is also very nice for the price.


----------



## dakanao

I just ordered the Fidelio X1 for €215. I hope they'll perform well with my IDT High Definition Audio Codec onboard laptop soundcard.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> For something small and USB powered, the Xonar U3 is a good choice. For something a little larger and nicer, the Sound Blaster Omni is solid. If you wanted something for PC and consoles, the Recon3D USB will also work *and is a bit smaller than the Omni.*
> 
> 
> Soundmagic HP100 for closed. I think someone on here got a pair recently and had good things to say about them. The Brainwavz HM5 / NVX XPT100 is a solid choice if your budget isn't that high. The CAL (Creative Aurvana Live!) is also very nice for the price.


 
 The Recon is only about 1cm shorter in length, but it's almost twice as wide.  It's bigger than it looks in the pictures.
  
 Regarding the HP100, love em, but I honestly haven't tried using them for gaming yet.  It'd recommend them for a great all-around closed headphone, for sure tho.  If you keep an eye on Amazon, you will occasionally see a refurb for $130.  That's how I got mine and it was basically like new.  A complete steal for the price.


----------



## benbenkr

The only place I'd use a HP100 is on a plane, with a Vita.


----------



## Change is Good

The HP100 is a superb closed all rounder. If I had it, welllllll... let's not even put that thought in my head lol


----------



## sbv20j

jason bourne said:


> Anyone?



Yes you can select bitsteam in the settings I use this to run my mixamp


----------



## Change is Good

Guess I'll stream some Watch Dogs!


----------



## dakanao

MLE do you any amp/DAC around €20,- that definitely enhances the sound of the Fidelio X1 on the laptop?


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Guess I'll stream some Watch Dogs!


 

 Games don't come out quick enough for the new consoles..i am back on bf4 now still got transistor and outlast the whistle blower to finish but can't be bothered with them..i want drive club and the division now, not later on in the year or 2015!


----------



## Change is Good

Just received and email with access to the Destiny alpha! Oh man, this and the BF: Hardline beta are going to keep me from finishing Watch Dogs, I see ...


----------



## Yethal

Have both. Destiny shows great potential, although competitive multi is kinda broken (weapons farmed during singleplayer carry over to competitive)


----------



## Change is Good

Zombie and I are streaming BF: Hard line if anyone wants to check us out


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Zombie and I are streaming BF: Hard line if anyone wants to *check us out*


 
  
 Well crap, now I have to try and get that mental image out of my head.


----------



## Change is Good

Sexy and I know it


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> Just really wish my 15G had a detachable cable.


 
 If you know of a female jack that's small enough, it's easy enough to get inside and mod it in. I had to open mine to clean out a couple hairs and saw that there is "some" room inside.
  
  


dakanao said:


> MLE do you any amp/DAC around €20,- that definitely enhances the sound of the Fidelio X1 on the laptop?


 
 If you can find an Asus Xonar U1 (discontinued), it's a slightly bigger "desktop" version of the U3. The features are all the same am I'm sure the U1 has a better amp section than the U3.


----------



## Yethal

Question for folk who played Hardline Beta. What do You think of the sound engine? When I played I got a feeling that players made no noise whatsoever


----------



## Lotfi

Hi all,
  
 first of all, This is my first post on this forum and I would like to thank MLE for the amazing he achieved.
  
 I've been reading a lot (here and over other forums) for picking up new headphones for FPS gaming on PC (call of duty). I'm currently not having any sound card  because I have a good embedded one (http://www.asus.com/ROG_ROG/MAXIMUS_V_FORMULA/) but I'm not excluding the possibility of getting one, or may be just and AMP. that's a question, so what do you think is better for me.
  
 I'm hesitating between the AKG K-702 ( for a better comfort with a flat head band, at 211 euros) and the AKG Q-701 ( at 235 euros), this difference is almost nothing but may be better investing this difference in a better amp or sound card ? I've been hesitating as well with the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Edition for a long time (at 199 euros) but the competitive aspect makes me lean towards the AKG ones.
  
 the most important thing is being able to clearly pick up the enemies foot steps and spatial positioning for the directions.
  
 The explosions or helicopters noise is very disturbing and I don't want to feel my head exploding because of that (I'm currently using a Razer Tiamat 7.1 since 2 years, and the clamping of this headset is just awful) .
  
 I might probably use this can for listening to some pop / rock electronic music. and I've red that with a correct amp, the bass might sound good enough. (here is my playlist mix https://soundcloud.com/benx010256/sets/indie-please-june-2014-is )
  
 Thanks in advance for any help !


----------



## gerpogi

Hi guys! I have a question, How does the xonar u7 compare with the sb omni? I currently have the omni but I have been interested in the u7 for a while now and I just wanted to do more research before buying one. Thanks!


----------



## Jason Bourne

sbv20j said:


> Yes you can select bitsteam in the settings I use this to run my mixamp


 
  
 Thanks for reply and information. Much appreciate it!


----------



## Jason Bourne

Im not sure exactly which edition of the mix amp pro I have (ill put a picture below) but I need to run a cable to split from the headset out to headphone and one for chat.... which cable should be I getting... a regular 3.5mm Y cable or something else? Also, if I dont want to split for a mic will a regular 3.5mm cable plug into the headset out just fine? (I dont have the mix amp in my hands yet, and wanting to order the right cables before hand I got this one used without cables.... ).


----------



## calpis

You have a 2011 Mixamp Pro. You'll need this cable if it doesn't come with it http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/
  
 Also, make sure you have an optical cable too.
  
 And yes, if you don't care to use the chat features, just plug your headphones in directly.


----------



## Jason Bourne

calpis said:


> You have a 2011 Mixamp Pro. You'll need this cable if it doesn't come with it http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/
> 
> Also, make sure you have an optical cable too.
> 
> And yes, if you don't care to use the chat features, just plug your headphones in directly.


 
 THANK YOU!!!!! That pretty much answers all my questions


----------



## hallonpaj

I have a discount card in a store I want to use. The 2 headphones I got to choose from is:
  
 Philips X1
 Sennheiser G4me one
  
 Wich one would you recommend for pc gaming? I already have a mic so dont care about mic. Sound only.
 And is G4me One strictly for gaming or can you use it for music too? I already have a pair of Sennheiser RS180 so they might be to similar?


----------



## conquerator2

hallonpaj said:


> I have a discount card in a store I want to use. The 2 headphones I got to choose from is:
> 
> *Philips X1*
> Sennheiser G4me one
> ...


 
 I'd recommend that one because that's the one I heard and it is unanimously recommended...
 What's your DAC/amp like though?


----------



## hallonpaj

conquerator2 said:


> I'd recommend that one because that's the one I heard and it is unanimously recommended...
> What's your DAC/amp like though?


 

 I have a Dacmagic plus both dac and amp. When I play games (by games i mean cs:go) I use SBX from my sound blaster card.


----------



## conquerator2

hallonpaj said:


> I have a Dacmagic plus both dac and amp. When I play games (by games i mean cs:go) I use SBX from my sound blaster card.


 
 X1 is a better headphone then. The Senn G4ME is just a rebranded older model I believe [?]


----------



## lewis91

I have the pc360, the GAME ONE are indeed rebranded pc360 with supposedly improved comfort and new pads.
  
 They are excellent for games with good positional accuracy, very comfortable to wear and the microphone is great. They do lack a little in the bass department however and they are better for gaming than music although they still do a half decent job.
  
 If you don't need the microphone then I would personally go for the Phillips X1


----------



## Lotfi

Hi guys,
  
 Could someone reply please to my previous question on the previous page regarding the choice between the AKG K702 and AKG Q701 ?
  
 Now that i'm reading more things, I'm even hesitating with the Phillips X1/00 which costs +/- the same price ( 220 -225 euros).
  
 what do you think, which one should I get ? i'm really affraid that the bass covers the details, but in the other hand, I would like to have as much bass as possible for listening to music.
  
 thanks a lot


----------



## odib

lotfi said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Could someone reply please to my previous question on the previous page regarding the choice between the AKG K702 and AKG Q701 ?
> 
> ...


 
 Are you talking about the AKG K702 *65th Anniversary Edition*? I used to own the Q701 and just recently purchased the Annies. I would go for the Annies since it has better bass for your music and is still quite detailed. I sold my Q701 because the bumps were too irritating, they would leave bumps on my head. The Annies are so much more comfortable.


----------



## Lotfi

odib said:


> Are you talking about the AKG K702 *65th Anniversary Edition*? I used to own the Q701 and just recently purchased the Annies. I would go for the Annies since it has better bass for your music and is still quite detailed. I sold my Q701 because the bumps were too irritating, they would leave bumps on my head. The Annies are so much more comfortable.


 
 Thanks for the details, but i'm talking about the annie, but about the K 702 , which is exactly the same as the k 701, but with a flat leather band on the head, which should offer a better comfort and more important to me, the disconnectable cable ( in case it gets damaged) ( www. thomann.de/fr/akg_k702. htm )
  
 In addition, I don't think that i'm going to have problems with the bumps, coz I have a Razer Tiamat , which has bumps, and never had a problem, I may be have more hair ?! lol.
  
 I wanna get headphones for mainly playing. so it is the most important thing. but the philips is more easily driven ...? i'm really lost ! I know that what I want is impossible, a clear and huge soundstage with enough bass for enjoying the music.

 I gave more details on my post of the previous page if you could take a look to it (I can't repost it, otherwise it ganna take time for being validated by the moderators)

 Thanks


----------



## Murder Mike

lotfi said:


> In addition, I don't think that i'm going to have problems with the bumps, coz I have a Razer Tiamat , which has bumps, and never had a problem, I may be have more hair ?! lol.
> 
> I wanna get headphones for mainly playing. so it is the most important thing. but the philips is more easily driven ...? i'm really lost ! I know that what I want is impossible, a clear and huge soundstage with enough bass for enjoying the music.
> 
> ...


 
 If you don't think you're going to mind the bumps, go with the Q701. The K702, while possibly more comfortable, may be a bit too flat in the bass department for your tastes.


----------



## SoAmusing777

How do people feel about the HE-500 for gaming? I was also looking at the AKG K712 Pro and the Alpha Dogs.


----------



## Lotfi

Hi Mike,
  
 That's what I was thinking about, but now, I'm really hesitating with the Fidelio X1 ? did you get the chance to test both those headphones in games ? is the positionning and the clarity diffrence that big ? coz it looks like the fidelio is much more fun than the Q701.
  
 If the positionning and clarity gap is really big, I'm thinking about stiking to the k702, or Q701.
  
 Thanks a lot


----------



## Murder Mike

lotfi said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> That's what I was thinking about, but now, I'm really hesitating with the Fidelio X1 ? did you get the chance to test both those headphones in games ? is the positionning and the clarity diffrence that big ? coz it looks like the fidelio is much more fun than the Q701.
> 
> ...


 
 I haven't personally, but a few others have compared the X1 and Q701, including Stillhart. I know he preferred the Q701 with the bass mod over the X1. If you do a "Search this thread" at the top of this page, you should be able to find some of his comments.


----------



## pietcux

I have the K702 for gaming. I have listened to the Fidelio a few times in shops. They have a much bigger bass, but my understanding that I got from MLE is that a bass like the Fidelio has is couterproductive in regards of positional audio. The bass masks a lot of the often very silent positional signals you get. So the classic K702 is eventually better than the Anniversary, which is a K702 with different pads that give 3 dB more bass more or less. And a big disadvantage of the Fidelio is that the earpads are not exchangeable.


----------



## Lotfi

Thanks a lot Mike,
  
 Indeed, reading the stillhart posts helped me a lot, I'm more confident in the soundstage of the Q701. Looks like I will definitly need an AMP, that's also a big question for me, coz I don't know anything about that. Isn't better to get a soundcard like the Sound Blaster Audigy Rx ? it is a 7.1 with an amp feature up to 600 Ohms.
  
 The other point is reagrding the bass mod, I found a topic but i'm not sure it is the right one "AKG Q701 Simple Mod Increase Bass and Decrease Soundstage a little" because I wouldn't like to decrease the soundstage. As far as I know, he is just reducing the "openning" of the headphones, which decreases the soundstage, and increases the bass boomy effect ... Is it correct ? or is there any other trick for not affecting the soundstage ?


----------



## Lotfi

thanks pietcux,
  
 I'm now hesitating again... If this bass mod reduces the soundstage, is it more interesting to get a K702 and mod it ? or to stick with the Q701 ?


----------



## Change is Good

K612 (if you have an amp) and HP200 are also great choices for all rounders under $200... just saying...


----------



## Lotfi

Thanks, But do not have an amp, and i'm in france actually,  so the prices are not the same .


----------



## Change is Good

You will need an amp for the Q701 or K702, also...


----------



## Lotfi

I know, I'm currently looking for one, and I was thinking about getting the Schiit Magni, but it is not sold in france, and i can't ship it from the US. As I said earlier, I am also wondering about a sound card with amp feature ?
  
 But my question remains : K702 or Q701?


----------



## Change is Good

lotfi said:


> I know, I'm currently looking for one, and I was thinking about getting the Schiit Magni, but it is not sold in france, and i can't ship it from the US. As I said earlier, I am also wondering about a sound card with amp feature ?
> 
> But my question remains : K702 or Q701?


 
  
 Both are one in the same. You would really have to compare them, side by side, to know the differences, which are _very_ minor. Get the cheapest one....
  
*I'm selling my K612 and am willing to ship internationally (at extra cost), if interested.*


----------



## pietcux

Right now I have the K702 on my head, listening to Roger Waters Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking:
  
 ALAC > Ipod Classic EU version 120 Gb > LOD > Fiio E12 low gain bass boost on volume @ 12:00 > AKG K702
  
 Loud enough for a quiet night (imagine high gain......), bass is very good and detailed. The effects that started with Dark Side of the Moon are absolutely there, this combo has simply a fantastic sound stage...... And did I mention the guitars.....perfect
  
 I simply could not stand the colour scheme of the Q701....


----------



## Lotfi

thanks a lot for those feedbacks! It is helping, but at the same time it is sooo hard to chose, the diffrence is just 20 euros k702 is 211 and q701 is 229 euros.
  
 regarding my type of music, here is my last playlist mix, you could try diffrent songs, ( I took out the http at the begining and  replaced the / by *):
  
 soundcloud.com*benx010256*sets*indie-please-june-2014-is
  
 now, let's say i'm getting the k702, which AMP should I get ? i don't wanna put more than 100 euros in that.
  
 millions of thanks for your advises


----------



## pietcux

Take the K702 and please do yourself a favour and take the Fiio E12 it is 138€ new or 116€ used on Amazon.de The K702 needs some power to begin with.


----------



## Stillhart

lotfi said:


> Thanks a lot Mike,
> 
> Indeed, reading the stillhart posts helped me a lot, I'm more confident in the soundstage of the Q701. Looks like I will definitly need an AMP, that's also a big question for me, coz I don't know anything about that. Isn't better to get a soundcard like the Sound Blaster Audigy Rx ? it is a 7.1 with an amp feature up to 600 Ohms.
> 
> The other point is reagrding the bass mod, I found a topic but i'm not sure it is the right one "AKG Q701 Simple Mod Increase Bass and Decrease Soundstage a little" because I wouldn't like to decrease the soundstage. As far as I know, he is just reducing the "openning" of the headphones, which decreases the soundstage, and increases the bass boomy effect ... Is it correct ? or is there any other trick for not affecting the soundstage ?


 
 If you want the absolute best in positional audio and sound-whoring, the Q701 beats the X1 for sure.  If you want really good positional audio and sound-whoring, but maybe not the BEST, but also more bass for movies and music, the X1 is a great choice.
  
 I used both with my Sound Blaster Omni (same as the Z) and you really don't need a "better" sound card -- especially if you're buying an amp to go with it.
  
 The bass on the X1 is definitely exaggerated but fun.  If you don't want it bleeding all over your mids, you'll need an amp.
  
 The bass on the Q701 gets much better after you do the bass port mod.  I felt like it lost a teeny bit in the mids, but the amount of bass it gained was worth it.  It's still not a ton of bass, but it's enough to not make them feel like they have ****ty bass.  It's more "natural".  It's a no-brainer mod and they really should have come that way.  And of course it's completely reversible if you don't like it.  It had NO perceptible effect on soundstage or positioning.
  
 tl;dr - 
  
 Competitive gaming/sound whoring:  Q701>X1
 Everything else:  Similar but different.  Don't stress out about it as you'll be super happy with either.


----------



## conquerator2

lotfi said:


> I know, I'm currently looking for one, and I was thinking about getting the Schiit Magni, but it is not sold in france, and i can't ship it from the US. As I said earlier, I am also wondering about a sound card with amp feature ?
> 
> But my question remains : K702 or Q701?


 
 http://www.audiophonics.fr/
  
 They don't have the Magni but they do have the Modi and are a legit dealer [of many audiophile schiits]
 Ask them if they could get you the Magni maybe? I've dealt with them before and they're very nice.


----------



## Lotfi

@pietcux : 10 000 times thanks for your answers, but could you please suggest me some other amps in the same range of price (not more please) !!
  
@Stillhart : Thanks a lot for your reply, I have been reading almost all your post, and it helped me a lot for eliminating the X1 from my choice's list, so please !!! don't bring it again. I want something clear and great for gaming (I'm already having a Sennheiser HD-25 II for everyday's life) and after this conversation with piectux, I was 90% sure to get the K702 for saving 20 euros and using them for a better purpose. what do you think, is the K702 + amp as good as the Q701 ? MLE says that the Q701 has a better bass, but on some other threads, i red that they are the same.
  
 For the movies and ambiant music, I'm having a nice 2.1 set of Creative GigaWorks T3.
  
 with a soundcard like the soundblaster Z or whatever (Headphone Amp:  Up to 600 Ohms) do I really need an external amp ? suggest me diffrent models in order of preference if possible, I'll try to check what would be the best price I would get.
  
 (I hope my english is not too bad)
  
  
 Many thanks


----------



## Lotfi

Hi conquerator2: thanks for the advise. I'll check with them and I hope they could get me one, and not for too much money!
  
 could I ask you about the diffrence between the Modi and the Magni ?
 Is really the Schiit Magni the best possible solution?
 how do I connect it to my computer to the 3.5 jack output port ?
 I have the remote controller of my Gigaworks T3, could I just plug the headphones on it and use the knob for amplifying the sound ? if not, would it be better to plus the 2.1 speakers on the amp ? and then, the headphones on the remote controller?
  
 I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but this is a lot of money for me.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

lotfi said:


> @pietcux : 10 000 times thanks for your answers, but could you please suggest me some other amps in the same range of price (not more please) !!
> 
> @Stillhart : Thanks a lot for your reply, I have been reading almost all your post, and it helped me a lot for eliminating the X1 from my choice's list, so please !!! don't bring it again. I want something clear and great for gaming (I'm already having a Sennheiser HD-25 II for everyday's life) and after this conversation with piectux, I was 90% sure to get the K702 for saving 20 euros and using them for a better purpose. what do you think, is the K702 + amp as good as the Q701 ? MLE says that the Q701 has a better bass, but on some other threads, i red that they are the same.
> 
> ...


 
 I haven't heard the K702 so I can't comment from experience, sorry.  But I have read many times that the Q701 is slightly better overall than the K702 (non anniversary).
  
 If you just want to use them for gaming and that's it, the Sound Blaster Z will be fine.  For anything else, I'd suggest an amp.  You're better off asking for amp recommendations in the Q701 or K702 threads.


----------



## Lotfi

OK, noted!
  
 MLE says that the bit extra of bass on the Q701 over the K701/702 covers slightly the mids, which reduces the details of the Q compared to the K. I never tried them, so I can't tell myself...
  
 I'll start then by getting a sound card with amplifying feature, and I'll think about getting an AMP in the future.
  
 could you please send me the link for the bass mod thread ?
  
 regards


----------



## Stillhart

Dig around in here.  http://www.head-fi.org/t/582276/q701-appreciation-thread
  
 The link you're looking for is in the first post.
  
 FWIW, I can't possibly imagine the "bass" in the stock Q701 reducing the detail as it's almost inaudible.  You're making way too much of the differences between the two.


----------



## Lotfi

will this kill the waranty ?


----------



## Stillhart

lotfi said:


> will this kill the waranty ?


 
 No idea, but it is reversible...


----------



## Lotfi

Ok, I think that I'll avoid doing that at the beginning, and may be get an AMP and use my embeded sound chip  for the moment... what do you think is better ? and what amp except the schiit magni ? what about the way of conecting the headphones + amp + speakers (question asked earlier) ?


----------



## Stillhart

Again, go to the Q701 thread and do a search.  There are a zillion amp recommendations, it's asked like once a week.
  
 As far as hooking things up, there's no mystery there.  It's all standard cables that are readily available.


----------



## Yethal

lotfi said:


> Hi conquerator2: thanks for the advise. I'll check with them and I hope they could get me one, and not for too much money!
> 
> could I ask you about the diffrence between the Modi and the Magni ?
> Is really the Schiit Magni the best possible solution?
> ...


 
 Modi is a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) and Magni is an amplifier
 It's not the only solution but man, this amp is awesome
 Using 3.5mm to rca cable, or if Your sandcard has rca output just rca cables
 It would probably hurt the sq but go ahead.


----------



## Lotfi

thanks man, I'm waiting for a cost estimation of a vendor here in france... and depending on that, I'll see.
 any other suggestions then ?


----------



## SoAmusing777

Again, How do people feel about the HE-500 for gaming? Also, how does the bass compare to the AKG Annies or k712 pros?


----------



## SoAmusing777

mad lust envy said:


>


 
 I sent you a PM about doing the HE-500's for review if you're interested. I'll be getting them soon.


----------



## conquerator2

soamusing777 said:


> Again, How do people feel about the HE-500 for gaming? Also, how does the bass compare to the AKG Annies or k712 pros?


 
 I don't think MLE has an amp capable of driving the HE-500.
  
 As for gaming, I was using the HE-6 and loved it. I imagine the HE-500 won't fare much worse... I can't compare it to an Annie or K712 but I now own the K612 and I can confidently say that the two areas where the AKG would win is soundstage depth and imaging. Still, I had zero problems gaming with the HEs and had no trouble identifying sound cues, directions, etc. On top of that, I really love planars and I suppose I prefer them to dynamics due to their effortlessness [hence my HE-560 preorder, which is a souped up HE-500 with a bit different tonality]


----------



## SoAmusing777

conquerator2 said:


> I don't think MLE has an amp capable of driving the HE-500.
> 
> As for gaming, I was using the HE-6 and loved it. I imagine the HE-500 won't fare much worse... I can't compare it to an Annie or K712 but I now own the K612 and I can confidently say that the two areas where the AKG would win is soundstage depth and imaging. Still, I had zero problems gaming with the HEs and had no trouble identifying sound cues, directions, etc. On top of that, I really love planars and I suppose I prefer them to dynamics due to their effortlessness [hence my HE-560 preorder, which is a souped up HE-500 with a bit different tonality]


 

 They aren't too bad, especially compared to the HE-6. About the only things I have is the Creative X-FI Titanium HD (when I get it) and my current Harmon Kardon AVR 254.

 Sweet. Actually the HE-500 is an updated HE-6 afaik. I would figure that the AKG would best it there. Wonderful. What did you use for surround sound? Dolby HP or what? Woo, that's an expensive phone. Lighter as well! Hope you like them!


----------



## Lotfi

Hi all,
  
 It's me again, I just got an answer from the vendor, and they are not selling the Schiit Magni, because they have better or equivalent for a better price, suggestiong the VMV Audio VA2 ( 115 Euros).
  
 I'm hesitating of putting more money and getting Aune X1 Pro DAC / Amp (190 euros) but it is out of stock.
  
 What do you think about the VMV Audio VA2 ? any other advise ?


----------



## conquerator2

soamusing777 said:


> They aren't too bad, especially compared to the HE-6. About the only things I have is the Creative X-FI Titanium HD (when I get it) and my current Harmon Kardon AVR 254.
> 
> Sweet. Actually the HE-500 is an updated HE-6 afaik. I would figure that the AKG would best it there. Wonderful. What did you use for surround sound? Dolby HP or what? Woo, that's an expensive phone. Lighter as well! Hope you like them!


 
 FYI, HE-500 is one step below a *well-driven* HE-6 [this is important because I never really felt like I truly achieved that status...]
 The AVR should be better for the HE-500 than the Titanium but you'll need it for DSP so... maybe both 
  
 I use Dolby Headphone and although I have not tested other types of processing, I am a big DH fan and I really like the processing method they use. People find it a bit echoey, I do not - I find it scenery sensitive and pleasing [if perceived].
  
 Yeah I am putting all my hopes into the 560... They better not let me down


----------



## SoAmusing777

conquerator2 said:


> FYI, HE-500 is one step below a *well-driven* HE-6 [this is important because I never really felt like I truly achieved that status...]
> The AVR should be better for the HE-500 than the Titanium but you'll need it for DSP so... maybe both
> 
> I use Dolby Headphone and although I have not tested other types of processing, I am a big DH fan and I really like the processing method they use. People find it a bit echoey, I do not - I find it scenery sensitive and pleasing [if perceived].
> ...


 


 Right.
 Nah, the Titanium has a DSP.

 Right on.


----------



## Lotfi

I just found the Objective2 (O2) Headphone Amplifier in a Switzerland website at 132 euros for the Desktop version and 104 euros for the portable version. I think that it could be the best AMP for the given price I could get in France. What do you think ? I'm also wondering if the Desktop version is delivering a better sound quality ? if it is the same quality:  I prefer going with the Portable version, coz I don't see for what the desktop one could be better ?  or if there is a problem with the portable one ?
  
 Please let me know if this AMP is OK ? and what should I get : Portable / Desktop ?
  
 Many thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

^How much is the FiiO E12 selling for there? No experience with the O2s, but the E12 has plenty juice to sufficiently drive the more synergy hungry AKGs. No included DAC, just a powerful standalone portable.

Another member already suggested this to you, as he is using it with his K702. I loved its power and convenience when I paired it with all my AKGs.


----------



## Lotfi

Hi,
  
 The FiiO E12 is 129 euros, so more expensive than the portable O2, and almost the same as the desktop version. this is extracted from Bill-P review ( a head-fi memeber) "Review: Fiio E12 (comparison to C&C BH + JDS Labs O2 + JDS Labs C421)":
  


> I had some extensive comparison to O2, so the post is no longer between E12 and C&C BH. But because I don't want to clog the forum with yet another post of the very same topic, I'll edit this thread.
> 
> So, headphones that I plugged this combo into, with notes of which amp was the preferred one:
> 
> ...


 
  
 and even the other reviews tend to say that the O2 is excellent on all the range, but very neutral. sharp and clear detail amplified without introducing any particular signature.
  
 Still, what's better: the desktop/Portable version ?


----------



## Change is Good

lotfi said:


> Hi,
> 
> The FiiO E12 is 129 euros, so more expensive than the portable O2, and almost the same as the desktop version. this is extracted from Bill-P review ( a head-fi memeber) "Review: Fiio E12 (comparison to C&C BH + JDS Labs O2 + JDS Labs C421)":
> 
> ...






change is good said:


> ^How much is the FiiO E12 selling for there? *No experience with the O2s*, but the E12 has plenty juice to sufficiently drive the more synergy hungry AKGs. No included DAC, just a powerful standalone portable.
> 
> Another member already suggested this to you, as he is using it with his K702. I loved its power and convenience when I paired it with all my AKGs.




Sorry but can't help there...


----------



## Lotfi

No problem, If it was an easy question, I won't be stuck for 2 days on this forum. I was about to pick up the K702 this afternoon from a store hoping that after burning-in it is going to be as good as the Q one but i still hesitate between the K702 and Q701.
  
 Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...!!! still hope to get some answers guys.


----------



## martin vegas

lotfi said:


> No problem, If it was an easy question, I won't be stuck for 2 days on this forum. I was about to pick up the K702 this afternoon from a store hoping that after burning-in it is going to be as good as the Q one but i still hesitate between the K702 and Q701.
> 
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...!!! still hope to get some answers guys.


 

 Read the guide from page one!


----------



## Lotfi

don't you think I did ? twice !!
  
 Come on!  be serious.


----------



## Change is Good

lotfi said:


> No problem, If it was an easy question, I won't be stuck for 2 days on this forum. I was about to pick up the K702 this afternoon from a store hoping that after burning-in it is going to be as good as the Q one but* i still hesitate between the K702 and Q701.*
> 
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...!!! still hope to get some answers guys.




I have the same trouble, sometimes, choosing between a red apple and a green apple


----------



## pietcux

lotfi said:


> don't you think I did ? twice !!
> 
> Come on!  be serious.



I am curious aboit the Shiit. Why don't you order directly on their site. The you have something to tell us as a payback for our nice help.....lol. But honestly, the E12 is a mighty amp for his price and Fiio is the best Chinese company that I know.


----------



## Lotfi

holy Schiit !!! I was trying to make a simulation of the price from the US on the Schiit website, because on amazon it was costing me 170 Euros including the custom service fees, and It just validated the order !!! I was just testing !!!  looks like it is 130$ , which should be around 100 euros . but I hope they are not going to ask me for taxes !
  
 So now, I ordered the Schiit magni by mistake !


----------



## martin vegas

lotfi said:


> holy Schiit !!! I was trying to make a simulation of the price from the US on the Schiit website, because on amazon it was costing me 170 Euros including the custom service taxe, and It just validated the order !!! I was just testing !!!  looks like it is 130$ , which should be around 100 euros . but I hope they are not going to ask me for taxes !
> 
> So now, I ordered the Schiit magni by mistake !


 

 Come on be serious you must be mistaken, did you read the schiit website terms and conditions from page one twice?


----------



## Lotfi

which part exactly are you talking about ?


----------



## Lotfi

martin vegas said:


> Come on be serious you must be mistaken, did you read the schiit website terms and conditions from page one twice?


 

 I was thinking about the part saying : "don't be a diick" hahaha:


> *Acceptable use*
> 
> *Don’t break this site.* In other words, don’t use this website in any way that causes, or may cause, damage to the website or causes it to be impaired or inaccessible.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

lotfi said:


> No problem, If it was an easy question, I won't be stuck for 2 days on this forum. I was about to pick up the K702 this afternoon from a store hoping that after burning-in it is going to be as good as the Q one but i still hesitate between the K702 and Q701.
> 
> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr...!!! still hope to get some answers guys.


 
 You're putting too much thought into it.  Like Change said, you're comparing a green apple to a red apple.  They're both apples, they both taste great, and unless you bite into them one after the other, you'll never notice the difference in flavor.  Just get whichever is cheaper and move on with your life!  lol


----------



## Lotfi

Ok, I just ordered the Q701, 20 euros more expensive than the K702. I was afraid of having a too much cold sound from the k702 and I hope this extra bass won't affect the soundstage accuracy.
  
 I contacted Schiit for cancelling the mistaken order of the Magni, coz i'm more hesitating between the O2 and the Vali.
  
 so wait and see now.


----------



## dakanao

I just played some MW2 with my new Philips X1 a few hours ago. While they are an improvement over my JVC HA-S400 in terms of competitive play, I noticed some issues with them. 
  
 For instance, if an enemy is behind a wall walking, you can only hear the footsteps coming from that direction, but it doesn't go as far the wall itself.
  
 So in other words, if there are enemies from a distance, you can't pinpoint exactly where they are, only if they're close you can.


----------



## Stillhart

lotfi said:


> Ok, I just ordered the Q701, 20 euros more expensive than the K702. I was afraid of having a too much cold sound from the k702 and I hope this extra bass won't affect the soundstage accuracy.
> 
> I contacted Schiit for cancelling the mistaken order of the Magni, coz i'm more hesitating between the O2 and the Vali.
> 
> so wait and see now.


 
 Congrats, dude.  They're a great headphone and I'm sure you'll enjoy them.


----------



## Lotfi

thanks man !
  
 I also cancelled the Magni order because of the costum fees.


----------



## XIX47

I am a PC guy but I have someone else on Xbox who may be interested in a pair of headphones in the future. I know some console players use headphones  + separate mic for their system, however is the astro mixamp the only device that can configure the sound to play through the headphones and the Live chat through the mic?
  
 I really do not know much about cables and such for the Xbox system, and the astro mixamp is expensive unless you get a refurbished one on ebay, which is kinda risky. I think his budget is limited so I am trying to see such a setup would be affordable vs buying another gaming headset.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Yethal

Is it Xbox One or Xbox 360? On Xbox one you can just buy the headset adapter and plug the headset directly into the controller.


----------



## Mackem

Hey guys,
  
 I'm looking for a foam windshield for my V-Moda BoomPro that isn't overly large so that it slips off all the time. Any suggestions?


----------



## Stillhart

Rubberband or glue?


----------



## frankefrum

I would like everyone's opinion... What will pair best with the Fidelio X1 ...

The O2 or Fiio E17 amp??


----------



## SoAmusing777

Anyone have any suggestions for my next headphone? I'm thinking HE-500. I want something like the AKG k712/k702 annie, but just with more bass. Neutral headphones are my type. Would like them to be good for gaming as well.


----------



## appsmarsterx

soamusing777 said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for my next headphone? I'm thinking HE-500. I want something like the AKG k712/k702 annie, but just with more bass. Neutral headphones are my type. Would like them to be good for gaming as well.


 
  
 612pro


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

I'm so sorry if this has already been covered in the thread. I'm normally the guy that sits and reads EVERY page before asking my question, but I couldn't make it through all 1612 pages. I went through a few, but didn't find my answer. Here's my situation. I want the K712 Pro and the mixamp 2013 from Astro. I will be using this setup to play games on X-Box One, X-Box 360, PS4, PS3, and maybe PC (depending on what happens with my current Plantronics headset). I would also like to use the 712s for music at home and on the go (vacation/airplane). My question is, what will I need in addition to the K712s and Astro Mixamp to make all of this work? Do I need an extra headphone amp for this setup as detailed on the first page? Sorry guys, this is my first big headphone purchase and I just want to make sure I do it right and get the most out of them. Thanks in advance.


----------



## grumpy1471

mista freeze 74 said:


> I'm so sorry if this has already been covered in the thread. I'm normally the guy that sits and reads EVERY page before asking my question, but I couldn't make it through all 1612 pages. I went through a few, but didn't find my answer. Here's my situation. I want the K712 Pro and the mixamp 2013 from Astro. I will be using this setup to play games on X-Box One, X-Box 360, PS4, PS3, and maybe PC (depending on what happens with my current Plantronics headset). I would also like to use the 712s for music at home and on the go (vacation/airplane). My question is, what will I need in addition to the K712s and Astro Mixamp to make all of this work? Do I need an extra headphone amp for this setup as detailed on the first page? Sorry guys, this is my first big headphone purchase and I just want to make sure I do it right and get the most out of them. Thanks in advance.




Welcome to Head-Fi! 

Before I bought my K712s, I was in the same situation as you. I had only my Astro setup (A40s and Mixamp) and was looking for a serious upgrade. I ended up getting the K712s, a SoundBlaster Omni for my PC gaming and music needs and a Schiit Vali to power the cans. 

An amp will make a huge difference when you're using the Astro Mixamp. For me, the Mixamp alonr was too quiet, made the highs harsh and sibilant and just didn't make the headphones sound pleasing. When I added the Vali into the chain, the amp corrected all of those issues. 

As for potential PC gaming, the Omni is an awesome device and you may want to consider it. It seems to work decently well with the K712s without a dedicated amp but for me, harsh highs are still a slight issue.

Stillhart will be able to explain further and back me up here. He was one of the people here who helped me with my purchases.

tl;dr Get an amp for the K712. The Vali pairs really well with the AKG K/Q7xx line from what I've heard and experienced.

Edit: I missed the part where you said they'd be for portable use. As Murder Mike said, they're open so they won't work well in a noisy place and may disturb those around you as they will hear what is playing through the headphones. Open headphones won't be a good choice for portables. The K712s are also big cans and not portable.

I personally use a set of Vsonic GR07 Bass Editions for portable use. They cost me $150 and are actually pretty amazing for the price IMO.


----------



## Murder Mike

I'd also like to point out that the K7x2 line is not very portable friendly due to them being open. You can completely forget about using them on a plane. In a quiet room or hotel, they should work well if you have a nice portable source/amp, but I would honestly just pick up some decent $50-$100 IEMs.


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> I'd also like to point out that the K7x2 line is not very portable friendly due to them being open. You can completely forget about using them on a plane. In a quiet room or hotel, they should work well if you have a nice portable source/amp, but I would honestly just pick up some decent $50-$100 IEMs.


 
 I use my open MA900 for walks, hikes and even public transport travel and any other travel. Either these isolate more than they're given credit to [unlikely], my local public transport does not require that much isolation or open headphones are vastly underrated for such purposes.
  
 I have the K612 and if it was easier to drive, I'd give it a shot for that as well...
  
 I don't listen too loud either, I have to listen about 1 - 3db louder than indoor, but that is still much less loudness than what my friends listen at... Seriously people just don't care or my hearing is exceptional.


----------



## SoAmusing777

appsmarsterx said:


> 612pro


 

 Guess I'll have to check them out. Edit: Ehhh, I don't think so, lol.


----------



## Murder Mike

conquerator2 said:


> I use my open MA900 for walks, hikes and even public transport travel and any other travel. Either these isolate more than they're given credit to [unlikely], my local public transport does not require that much isolation or open headphones are vastly underrated for such purposes.
> 
> I have the K612 and if it was easier to drive, I'd give it a shot for that as well...
> 
> I don't listen too loud either, I have to listen about 1 - 3db louder than indoor, but that is still much less loudness than what my friends listen at... Seriously people just don't care or my hearing is exceptional.


 
  
 /shrug, to each their own. Also, an airplane is quite a bit louder than a bus/train as far as noise level goes, especially if you end up right next to the engine.


----------



## appsmarsterx

soamusing777 said:


> Guess I'll have to check them out. Edit: Ehhh, I don't think so, lol.


 
  
 why not? they are probably one of the best neutral headphones out these with fantastic imagine, soundstage and exceptional extension in bass. I personally prefer them over hd600 and many more.


----------



## SoAmusing777

appsmarsterx said:


> why not? they are probably one of the best neutral headphones out these with fantastic imagine, soundstage and exceptional extension in bass. I personally prefer them over hd600 and many more.


 

 Well, because the review I read stated it only had a marginal improvement in bass, and mm, I kinda doubt a $200 headphone is going to sound near as good as the HE-500, which debuted for like idk $800?


----------



## Stillhart

appsmarsterx said:


> why not? they are probably one of the best neutral headphones out these with fantastic imagine, soundstage and exceptional extension in bass. I personally prefer them over hd600 and many more.


 
 How about because he already has the Q701 and the K702 Annies, which are probably as good or better?
  
 You might look into the new HiFiMan cans coming out later this year.  MLE is very excited fro the HE-560...


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

grumpy1471 said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
  
 This thread and guide are AWESOME btw. Thank you so much MLE and everyone that continues to contribute.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> I'm so sorry if this has already been covered in the thread. I'm normally the guy that sits and reads EVERY page before asking my question, but I couldn't make it through all 1612 pages. I went through a few, but didn't find my answer. Here's my situation. I want the K712 Pro and the mixamp 2013 from Astro. I will be using this setup to play games on X-Box One, X-Box 360, PS4, PS3, and maybe PC (depending on what happens with my current Plantronics headset). I would also like to use the 712s for music at home and on the go (vacation/airplane). My question is, what will I need in addition to the K712s and Astro Mixamp to make all of this work? Do I need an extra headphone amp for this setup as detailed on the first page? Sorry guys, this is my first big headphone purchase and I just want to make sure I do it right and get the most out of them. Thanks in advance.


 
 Most of this has been covered by others, but I'll just throw in my $0.02.
  
 1 - For PC gaming, don't use the Mixamp.  Get a cheap sound card like a SB Omni or SBZ or that Asus that people like.  You might not even be able to use the Mixamp without a soundcard, depending on what's in there right now.
  
 2 - For music at home, an amp is going to help these a LOT.  For gaming, an amp is going to help as well.  Given that, I'd say you really want to budget for an amp.  If you want to move it back and forth between rooms and consoles and PC, get a portable like the E12 or a C5 or something.  Otherwise, I've read that desktop amps generally give you more bang for the buck.
  
 3 - I definitely would not recommend the K712 for a portable, especially on a plane.  They're not particularly rugged, and they leak a lot of sound in both directions.  You might want to consider a closed headphone for travel, like the Momentum On-ear or the SoundMAGIC HP100 or the like.


----------



## appsmarsterx

stillhart said:


> How about because he already has the Q701 and the K702 Annies, which are probably as good or better?


 
  
  
 I think he currently don't have his q701 anymore. anyway I thought he wanted a good neutral allrounder with better extension in bass, that's why I recommended it despite he already owning 702 annies..


----------



## martin vegas

Outlast is on xbox one from today..i wish dead rising 3 would come to ps4!


----------



## grumpy1471

martin vegas said:


> Outlast is on xbox one from today..i wish dead rising 3 would come to ps4!


 
 I have Outlast on PC and PS4 but I haven't played past the beginning lol. Dead Rising 3 is supposed to be coming out for the PC but it's capped at 30fps so that the console version will stand it's ground. Needless to say, PC gamers (myself included) are more than slightly unhappy with DR3.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I have Outlast on PC and PS4 but I haven't played past the beginning lol. Dead Rising 3 is supposed to be coming out for the PC but it's capped at 30fps so that the console version will stand it's ground. Needless to say, PC gamers (myself included) are more than slightly unhappy with DR3.


 
 On the plus side, it's on sale today for the first day of the Steam Summer Sale.  That should ease the pain a little...


----------



## Murder Mike

grumpy1471 said:


> I have Outlast on PC and PS4 but I haven't played past the beginning lol. Dead Rising 3 is supposed to be coming out for the PC but it's capped at 30fps so that the console version will stand it's ground. Needless to say, PC gamers (myself included) are more than slightly unhappy with DR3.


 
  
 Capcom said you could unlock the cap yourself if you wanted, they just can't guarantee what's going to happen with certain things if you do. Capcom usually has some decent ports, so this is a bit surprising.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> On the plus side, it's on sale today for the first day of the Steam Summer Sale.  That should ease the pain a little...


 
 I'm still going to wait until I get an Xbox One or until it's really cheap on PC to buy it. I'm not really a fan of the Dead Rising games so I won't pay more than I need to for them. They never appealed to me for some reason. The only game I've bought so far from the summer sale is Hotline Miami. Never played it before today and I'm loving the soundtrack. 
  
  


murder mike said:


> Capcom said you could unlock the cap yourself if you wanted, they just can't guarantee what's going to happen with certain things if you do. Capcom usually has some decent ports, so this is a bit surprising.


 
 It could be like Need for Speed Rivals. 60fps would make it speed up a ton and make it almost unplayable. Capcom says that it's because of the engine but I blame Microsoft for this


----------



## conquerator2

murder mike said:


> /shrug, to each their own. Also, an airplane is quite a bit louder than a bus/train as far as noise level goes, especially if you end up right next to the engine.


 
 Yeah, not on a plane lol. That's marginally louder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Only closed or IEMs there.


----------



## Murder Mike

grumpy1471 said:


> It could be like Need for Speed Rivals. 60fps would make it speed up a ton and make it almost unplayable. Capcom says that it's because of the engine but I blame Microsoft for this


 
  
 Dark Souls worked just fine at 60 FPS IIRC. So who knows? And you could be right, it probably is Microsoft's fault. I was hoping we would see more proper ports of "next gen" console games, but so far it's not off to a good start.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> I'm still going to wait until I get an Xbox One or until it's really cheap on PC to buy it. *I'm not really a fan of the Dead Rising games so I won't pay more than I need to for them.* They never appealed to me for some reason. The only game I've bought so far from the summer sale is Hotline Miami. Never played it before today and I'm loving the soundtrack.


 
  
 You don't need to pay anything for it.  If you're not a fan, don't buy it.  Problem solved.    
  
 I've come to the conclusion that we live in a golden age of video games right now.  There are SO many good games to play and just not enough time.  If something isn't like AMAZING, I'm just not going to get to it.  I'm probably not going to buy very much at this Summer Sale.
  
 Seriously though, the last few weeks, the only games I've played are Hearthstone and SC2 Squadron Tower Defense.  Both of those are free.  lol
  
 EDIT - Too many "seriously"s.


----------



## Change is Good

I just want to say that Watch Dogs was... meh...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I just want to say that Watch Dogs was... meh...


 
  
 About what I was expecting, which is why I didn't get it.  Now Destiny...


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> About what I was expecting, which is why I didn't get it.  Now Destiny...




I had a little bit of faith in Watch Dogs so I wasn't too surprised when it flopped. Destiny looks quite promising though. It looks like a mix of Borderlands and Halo which is awesome as those games are some of my favorites.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> About what I was expecting, which is why I didn't get it.  Now *Destiny*...






grumpy1471 said:


> I had a little bit of faith in Watch Dogs so I wasn't too surprised when it flopped. *Destiny* looks quite promising though. It looks like a mix of Borderlands and Halo which is awesome as those games are some of my favorites.




More like a mixture of Fallout and Halo. I'm definitely hyped up. The alpha was surprisingly smooth when I briefly tried it.


----------



## martin vegas

I am going to get the last of us and drive club.. not bothered about anything else this year but looking forward to the division next year..i won't play any old crap.. not that bothered about destiny..no other multiplayer compares to battlefield 4!


----------



## grumpy1471

martin vegas said:


> I am going to get the last of us and drive club.. not bothered about anything else this year but looking forward to the division next year..i won't play any old crap.. not that bothered about destiny..no other multiplayer compares to battlefield 4!




I'm actually playing a ton of old games lately. Just finished Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge for the original Xbox. Not a bad game actually. What sucks is that I'm more so concentrating on finishing games and haven't been fully enjoying them. I really want to complete my backlog before new games come out that I can't resist. It's a losing battle.

TLOU will be a game that I can't not get for my PS4. I never had a PS3 so I haven't played it yet (don't spoil it for me!). Drive club looks cool, the division looks interesting but not amazing IMO. The new Rainbow Six had an awesome trailer and Far cry 4 will be another game that I won't be able to resist. I will buy Borderlands: The Pre Sequel and maybe the Witcher 3. Sadly, I will continue buying CoD games so Advanced Warfare will be a game that I will buy.

We could discuss E3 forever lol. It's a pretty good year for gaming.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> You don't need to pay anything for it.  If you're not a fan, don't buy it.  Problem solved.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that we live in a golden age of video games right now.  There are SO many good games to play and just not enough time.  If something isn't like AMAZING, I'm just not going to get to it.  I'm probably not going to buy very much at this Summer Sale.
> 
> ...




I'll buy almost any game if the price is right. Dead Rising 3 seems like more of a fun and carnage type of game. More geared towards fooling around and not so much story based (at least from what I've seen). It can be fun in multiplayer for sure though.

Free games are pretty good but I have an issue with the fact that they are mostly geared towards repetition and grinding to level up or get better items. Also, they can't be completed and since I'm a completionist, I don't play a ton of them. I do enjoy a good match of League of Legends once in a while though 

Yeah there are too many good games and it seems so confusing and difficult when it comes to being in the know for upcoming games. E3 was awesome this year.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Free games are pretty good but I have an issue with the fact that they are mostly geared towards repetition and grinding to level up or get better items. Also, they can't be completed and since I'm a completionist, I don't play a ton of them. I do enjoy a good match of League of Legends once in a while though


 
  
 Grinding implies a repetitive activity that's not fun.  If you're having fun playing the actual game, the leveling/items is just gravy.  Also, competitive games give you an intrinsic reward (the satisfaction of besting your opponent), which is completely unrelated to the extrinsic rewards (levels, lootz, etc).


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Grinding implies a repetitive activity that's not fun.  If you're having fun playing the actual game, the leveling/items is just gravy.  Also, competitive games give you an intrinsic reward (the satisfaction of besting your opponent), which is completely unrelated to the extrinsic rewards (levels, lootz, etc).




Yeah for sure. CoD is definitely a game I grind on. I hate the game(s) because they're so frustrating but I'm good enough at them to keep playing. I play to level up, get a good k/d and unlock all the camos. I keep buying them every year though. I'm stubborn in that way. 

I do enjoy League in that I get to work with strangers as a team to beat another team. It's definitely a ton more team based and, as you said, there are definitely intrinsic rewards. 

A main reason why I don't play free games is because I feel the need to make the most out of the money I've already spent on games. My backlog is huge and it feels like a waste to let those games go untouched. I find that the feeling of completing a game is about equally as compelling as beating people at a game.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Yeah for sure. CoD is definitely a game I grind on. I hate the game(s) because they're so frustrating but I'm good enough at them to keep playing. I play to level up, get a good k/d and unlock all the camos. I keep buying them every year though. I'm stubborn in that way.
> 
> I do enjoy League in that I get to work with strangers as a team to beat another team. It's definitely a ton more team based and, as you said, there are definitely intrinsic rewards.
> 
> A main reason why I don't play free games is because I feel the need to make the most out of the money I've already spent on games. My backlog is huge and it feels like a waste to let those games go untouched. I find that the feeling of completing a game is about equally as compelling as beating people at a game.



Yet you still talk about all the games you HAVE to buy. lol


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Yet you still talk about all the games you HAVE to buy. lol




Didn't I mention that I'm stubborn?


----------



## Change is Good

So Zombie is streaming himself packing, damn dude got some vintage stuff. A video gamer's dream...


----------



## appsmarsterx

anyone tried BF: Hardline closed beta yet ? looks like another buggy BF4 DLC to me..
  
 http://www.battlefield.com/hardline/beta


----------



## Kamakahah

appsmarsterx said:


> anyone tried BF: Hardline closed beta yet ? looks like another buggy BF4 DLC to me..
> 
> http://www.battlefield.com/hardline/beta




Been playing it for a week. Just as buggy as BF4. It had some new and fun modes of play. It gets repetitive just as fast. For some reason choppers feel like they handle better, but it could be in my mind.
I wouldn't buy it at full price. I can wait.


----------



## Change is Good

It's a spin off Battlefield with new game modes and smaller maps. I kind of dig it since it's a different flavor, and can switch between the two. I know many will complain that this should have been a DLC, but factor in that it will come with just as many maps as a new game (approx 12). Would y'all have rather it been a new Premium instead?

EA is going down Activision's path. Have two delevopers work on the BF series and alternate between the two every year. I'll get it 'cause BF is my schiit, but personally I'm itching for Star Wars: Battlefront in 2015


----------



## SoAmusing777

stillhart said:


> How about because he already has the Q701 and the K702 Annies, which are probably as good or better?
> 
> You might look into the new HiFiMan cans coming out later this year.  MLE is very excited fro the HE-560...


 
 I'll be getting the Q's back in a trade, but I def don't want them.
 Hmm, but isn't the HE-560 going to be a lot of money? Anything beyond $500 (hell even $400 is my "pre"-limit) is kinda ridiculous.
  


appsmarsterx said:


> I think he currently don't have his q701 anymore. anyway I thought he wanted a good neutral allrounder with better extension in bass, that's why I recommended it despite he already owning 702 annies..


 
 Pretty much what I want. Something that's a neutral "reference" headphone but has a bit of bass to it. Kinda like the Audeze LCD-2, but just with qualities akin to that of the AKG's.
  
 Aside - IEM's hit the marks when it comes to portability and being able to listen to in public/working out, but can they match/near match the performance of my AKG k702 annies? I even considered the HE-500's. I prefer a neutral headphone that has great bass extension and some oomph to it as far as music goes. For gaming, of course the soundstage, imaging, and clarity are going to be the biggest things.


----------



## Stillhart

soamusing777 said:


> I'll be getting the Q's back in a trade, but I def don't want them.
> Hmm, but isn't the HE-560 going to be a lot of money? Anything beyond $500 (hell even $400 is my "pre"-limit) is kinda ridiculous.


 
  
 Weird, I coulda sworn you mentioned $800 earlier... Sorry can't help with suggestions as I've never tried anything in the $400-500 range.


----------



## Yethal

Out of curiosity, are there any console gamers out here who use SCUF controllers? In your opinion are they worth the money?


----------



## SoAmusing777

stillhart said:


> Weird, I coulda sworn you mentioned $800 earlier... Sorry can't help with suggestions as I've never tried anything in the $400-500 range.


 
 Nah, I just said it debuted at $800.


----------



## Murder Mike

yethal said:


> Out of curiosity, are there any console gamers out here who use SCUF controllers? In your opinion are they worth the money?


 
  
 $100-$150 for a controller. Not worth it at all unless it prints money.


----------



## Yethal

murder mike said:


> $100-$150 for a controller. Not worth it at all unless it prints money.


 
 Good, for a minute I thought I was the only one who thought that is the utter waste of money


----------



## NamelessPFG

$100+ gamepads that are just custom-modified versions of official first-party gamepads? No thanks.
  
 If anything, $60 for a new gamepad is expensive enough as is. The price really adds up when you want to have some local multiplayer.


----------



## grumpy1471

yethal said:


> Out of curiosity, are there any console gamers out here who use SCUF controllers? In your opinion are they worth the money?




I had one for a while. Sold it after a bit because I realized just how much of a waste of money they are. I'm maybe marginally better with a Scuf on competitive games such as CoD. Don't get one unless you either have a ton of money to burn or are committing to a gaming profession. If I have a ton of money, I MAY consider getting the base model one for PS4. 

Now Kontrol Freeks and Squidgrips are two controller accessories I can't play without.


----------



## Yethal

I had squidgrips for PS3


grumpy1471 said:


> I had one for a while. Sold it after a bit because I realized just how much of a waste of money they are. I'm maybe marginally better with a Scuf on competitive games such as CoD. Don't get one unless you either have a ton of money to burn or are committing to a gaming profession. If I have a ton of money, I MAY consider getting the base model one for PS4.
> 
> Now Kontrol Freeks and Squidgrips are two controller accessories I can't play without.


 
 I had squidgrip for PS3 some time ago. Had to throw'em away when the controller died on me. Still it was a great accessory


----------



## HiCZoK

Not been visiting here for some times.
 Anything worth a while came out that to replace my Cal! ? or am I still good?


----------



## Change is Good

hiczok said:


> Not been visiting here for some times.
> Anything worth a while came out that to replace my Cal! ? or am I still good?




Never tried the CAL! but from reading many impressions of it, I think the SoundMAGIC HP200 might be a well suited upgrade for ya


----------



## Spiderman

So I have a question, I currently have my fiio x3 set as my dac, now assuming I want to use surround sound software for my headphones is there anyway to use this while the x3 is connected? I am getting basically 2 volume output sources on my pc if I pick the one with surround sound I get no sound from the x3, anyone have a solution to this?


----------



## Yethal

spiderman said:


> So I have a question, I currently have my fiio x3 set as my dac, now assuming I want to use surround sound software for my headphones is there anyway to use this while the x3 is connected? I am getting basically 2 volume output sources on my pc if I pick the one with surround sound I get no sound from the x3, anyone have a solution to this?


 
 I guess You're connecting x3 through USB. Well, virtual surround can be outputted (sorry for bad english) through analog or optical port. Since x3 doesn't have optical/coaxial input You can't really use it as a virtual surround dac. There is a method for doing this posted on the first page of this thread but I'm not really sure how is this supposed to work


----------



## HiCZoK

change is good said:


> Never tried the CAL! but from reading many impressions of it, I think the SoundMAGIC HP200 might be a well suited upgrade for ya


 
 Thanks. Didn't knew about this one.
 but Iam.... keeping cal!. The price still wins and I prefer closed design. Cushions look great tho (and dat removable cord)


----------



## Change is Good

hiczok said:


> Thanks. Didn't knew about this one.
> but Iam.... keeping cal!. The price still wins and I prefer closed design. Cushions look great tho (and dat removable cord)




Sorry, I meant to say HP*100*, the closed version.


----------



## HiCZoK

ok, now You are onto something. Even price is better than hp200.
 Thanks. Will read up on this. Especially build quality as it is kinda the worst point of CAL!


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Been gaming with my X1s for about 6 months now. So amazing. Such a step up from my Astros A40s. Night and day!!!
Now the right driver is effed! Distortion. Crackling. Basically every time someone talks in a game. Happened in a Wolfenstien. Went over to bf4. Same.
Soooo bummed. I live in japan. Bought them in the USA. Phillips won't honor their warranty cause I bought them in a different country . I have to send them back to the USA, send them to phillips get them sent back here. Probably cost me 100 bucks and take months. 

What should I buy in the mean time. I can't take a step back. No way.
Hd598? Akg 702? Beyer??? T90, t70? 
I use astro mix amp. Can it drive 250 ohm cans like hd650s?
Hifiman he-4s.
I have vmoda m100s at work but have gamed with them. Talk about fun cans!!! I want something like the m100 for gaming. Maybe I can get some new closed back for work and then use my m100s for gaming? 
Realy want alpha dogs. And i can buy direct and get shipped to japan. Or t90s?
Possibilities are endless. So I want something as good as or as fun as the x1s or m100s


----------



## xero404

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Been gaming with my X1s for about 6 months now. So amazing. Such a step up from my Astros A40s. Night and day!!!
> Now the right driver is effed! Distortion. Crackling. Basically every time someone talks in a game. Happened in a Wolfenstien. Went over to bf4. Same.
> Soooo bummed. I live in japan. Bought them in the USA. Phillips won't honor their warranty cause I bought them in a different country . I have to send them back to the USA, send them to phillips get them sent back here. Probably cost me 100 bucks and take months.
> 
> ...




Went up to mad dogs from an x1. Bass isn't as boomy but way more accurate and enough for me. Became even less bass when I upgraded them to alphas (never adjusted the bass screw though) but got even more accurate and are almost as open as the X1s.I ended up selling the x1s to fund a Lyr 2 (also sold an Asgard 2). X1s non replaceable cups worried me in the long run and customer service from Dan at Mr.speaker's is top notch. Looking to either get a he400\he400i or he500\he560 for open bass slam phones (to pair with the alphas) as I do miss the fun sound signature of the x1. Maybe they'll make a replaceable cup X2 someday.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

xero404 said:


> Went up to mad dogs from an x1. Bass isn't as boomy but way more accurate and enough for me. Became even less bass when I upgraded them to alphas (never adjusted the bass screw though) but got even more accurate and are almost as open as the X1s.I ended up selling the x1s to fund a Lyr 2 (also sold an Asgard 2). X1s non replaceable cups worried me in the long run and customer service from Dan at Mr.speaker's is top notch. Looking to either get a he400\he400i or he500\he560 for open bass slam phones (to pair with the alphas) as I do miss the fun sound signature of the x1. Maybe they'll make a replaceable cup X2 someday.



The problem is amping. Don't the hifiman and the alphas need some amping above and beyond the astro mix amp? 
X2s..... Those would. Be nice. Hoping vmoda with coming out with xs version of th m100. They are like an upgraded m800 right? How about an upgraded m100. I couldn't imagine a more insane set of cans.


----------



## martin vegas

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> The problem is amping. Don't the hifiman and the alphas need some amping above and beyond the astro mix amp?
> X2s..... Those would. Be nice. Hoping vmoda with coming out with xs version of th m100. They are like an upgraded m800 right? How about an upgraded m100. I couldn't imagine a more insane set of cans.


 

 Can't you get your x1's fixed anyway in japan? p.s I dj in shibuya every now and then, I like japan!


----------



## Yethal

I was watching mlg finals just now (entertainment, not education) and i noticed that these guys were using Audio Technica ATH-AG1 headsets. It kinda surprised me since most trupr0players use a40s, so a question needs to be asked, are audio-technica headsets as good as their headphones? It would be cool if MLE could review those.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> I was watching mlg finals just now (entertainment, not education) and i noticed that these guys were using Audio Technica ATH-AG1 headsets. It kinda surprised me since most trupr0players use a40s, so a question needs to be asked, are audio-technica headsets as good as their headphones? It would be cool if MLE could review those.




Yeah, they're. It's the same what Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic does - rebranded audiophile headphones. 

You of course pay a premium for headset convenience.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, they're. It's the same what Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic does - rebranded audiophile headphones.
> 
> You of course pay a premium for headset convenience.


 
 Since they have 32 ohm impendance and come with a 4 pole jack they can be run off the mixamp alone which makes them pretty dan convenient. If only they weren't so pricey


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

martin vegas said:


> Can't you get your x1's fixed anyway in japan? p.s I dj in shibuya every now and then, I like japan!


 
 Phillips says if I bought them in the USA, the warrenty is only valid in the usa. I bought them in the USA to save 60$..... stupid. 
 Amazon (USA) has already sent a replacment set to my home in the USA. So now I have to ship the brokem pair back, and get my parents to ship the new pair. 
 what a pain. 
 Picked up AKG Q701s for the meantime but my new X1s will probably get here about the same time.  and will use my M100s too, they are portable afterall. so hauling to and from work is not that big of a deal.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

martin vegas said:


> Can't you get your x1's fixed anyway in japan? p.s I dj in shibuya every now and then, I like japan!


 
 Phillips says if I bought them in the USA, the warrenty is only valid in the usa. I bought them in the USA to save 60$..... stupid. 
 Amazon (USA) has already sent a replacment set to my home in the USA. So now I have to ship the brokem pair back, and get my parents to ship the new pair. 
 what a pain. 
 Picked up AKG Q701s for the meantime but my new X1s will probably get here about the same time.  and will use my M100s too, they are portable afterall. so hauling to and from work is not that big of a deal.


----------



## theragekage

I have been gaming with my AD700x for a couple of months now and am extremely happy. I just snagged a pair of q701s for a great price and am looking at an amp. These cans will be used exclusively on Xbox 360/Xbox one with my astro mixamp. 

My question is will I need an amp with a DAC? I know I need an amp to drive the 701s, but if I am exclusively gaming on xbox, will I need a DAC as well? Could I just get the older fiio E9 instead of the e09k? Sorry for such a noob question. I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find an answer.


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> I have been gaming with my AD700x for a couple of months now and am extremely happy. I just snagged a pair of q701s for a great price and am looking at an amp. These cans will be used exclusively on Xbox 360/Xbox one with my astro mixamp.
> 
> My question is will I need an amp with a DAC? I know I need an amp to drive the 701s, but if I am exclusively gaming on xbox, will I need a DAC as well? Could I just get the older fiio E9 instead of the e09k? Sorry for such a noob question. I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find an answer.


 
  
 You won't be able to use a separate DAC because the Mixamp does that already.  Just an amp will be perfect.  Yes, the older E9 will be a good alternative to the E09k for your uses.


----------



## theragekage

stillhart said:


> You won't be able to use a separate DAC because the Mixamp does that already.  Just an amp will be perfect.  Yes, the older E9 will be a good alternative to the E09k for your uses.




Thank you!


----------



## chanzdevilz

Hi, i'm a newbie. i looking for headphone. I did search ATH-AD700, but i couldn't my find it. So they give me two option like BeyerDynamic Custom Pro One and ATH-M50xBL. Does anyone have review for that ?. Thanks


----------



## Yethal

chanzdevilz said:


> Hi, i'm a newbie. i looking for headphone. I did search ATH-AD700, but i couldn't my find it. So they give me two option like BeyerDynamic Custom Pro One and ATH-M50X. Does anyone have review for that ?. Thanks


 
 First post of that thread


----------



## chanzdevilz

yethal said:


> First post of that thread


 
 Sorry, i mean ATH-M50xBL(just edited). Does it has same sound with ATH-M50 ?


----------



## Yethal

chanzdevilz said:


> Sorry, i mean ATH-M50xBL(just edited). Does it has same sound with ATH-M50 ?


 
 You'll have to ask guys who used both of that cans


----------



## hotbeef

Anyone gaming with Momentum over ears? Still anxiously awaiting mine, should be here Wednesday. Currently using X1's off a DSS. Absolutely love the sound. The momentums are just being purchased at a travel can to replace my M50's but they'll no doubt get plenty of game time and comparing to the X1. Also, will a Fiio E12 improve much off the DSS? I just picked it up last week and I'm still waiting for my jumper cables to test it out. Thanks guys!


----------



## Eclipse-

Hi,
  
 I would just like to know if it's hard to drive AKG K612. I'm not really an audiophile or some sort, I just like a good pair of headphones for gaming and other stuffs, The design of this really caught my eye, and the ratings of comfort base on the 1st page is really high so this might be worth it. Please help me in choosing some cheap drivers that could still show the full potential of this headphones thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

eclipse- said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would just like to know if it's hard to drive AKG K612. I'm not really an audiophile or some sort, I just like a good pair of headphones for gaming and other stuffs, The design of this really caught my eye, and the ratings of comfort base on the 1st page is really high so this might be worth it. Please help me in choosing some cheap drivers that could still show the full potential of this headphones thanks.




Yes, the K612 is hungry for synergy. My suggestion would be to get a FiiO E12 for around $90 used.


----------



## Stillhart

hotbeef said:


> Anyone gaming with Momentum over ears? Still anxiously awaiting mine, should be here Wednesday. Currently using X1's off a DSS. Absolutely love the sound. The momentums are just being purchased at a travel can to replace my M50's but they'll no doubt get plenty of game time and comparing to the X1. Also, will a Fiio E12 improve much off the DSS? I just picked it up last week and I'm still waiting for my jumper cables to test it out. Thanks guys!


 
 I found that amping the X1 helped tighten up the bass, which was a bit sloppy and muddy with no amp.  In theory, this should improve your ability to pull out details because the bass won't leak into the mids as much.


----------



## hotbeef

Very nice! Thanks for he reply. Quite excited to play around with it. The E12 made a huge difference with just my iPod, I just wasn't sure how it would alter the DSS


----------



## Eclipse-

change is good said:


> Yes, the K612 is hungry for synergy. My suggestion would be to get a FiiO E12 for around $90 used.


 
 amazon's rating with like new is it good, duration of charging and battery life?Should I still invest on a gaming amp or it will work fine?


----------



## AxelCloris

eclipse- said:


> amazon's rating with like new is it good, duration of charging and battery life?Should I still invest on a gaming amp or it will work fine?


 
  
 I use the E12 for gaming. While it's not as powerful as many full sized desktop amps it can drive many headphones with authority, including planars like the Mad Dogs.


----------



## Eclipse-

axelcloris said:


> I use the E12 for gaming. While it's not as powerful as many full sized desktop amps it can drive many headphones with authority, including planars like the Mad Dogs.


 
 might as well go with it, is the $40 difference with like new vs new on amazon does the like new has damage so it is much cheaper?


----------



## appsmarsterx

eclipse- said:


> might as well go with it, is the $40 difference with like new vs new on amazon does the like new has damage so it is much cheaper?


 
  
 612pro is not that hard to drive, even with E17. I personally prefer E17 over E12 for 612pro, because of the controllability of the bass. despite the excellent extension in bass, 612 pro's bass can be too linear, dry without EQing. I found 612pro works fantastically well with the bass setting 4 on E17 without losing texture.


----------



## martin vegas

Moon audio have just brought a Blue Dragon V3 Headphone Cable out for the hd558's and 598's and hd518's at $165.00 if anyone's interested!


----------



## Stillhart

eclipse- said:


> might as well go with it, is the $40 difference with like new vs new on amazon does the like new has damage so it is much cheaper?


 
 Everything I've bought from Amazon Warehouse Deals in "Like New" condition has been indistinguishable from new.  Even "Very Good" was basically like new IMO.  
  
 You might also check the classifieds on this site for good deals if you're looking for used.  With the feedback rating system, you can be pretty confident that you're getting something in the condition specified.


----------



## Francinha

how bad the AKG K612pro will sound using only a asus xonar u3??


----------



## Stillhart

francinha said:


> how bad the AKG K612pro will sound using only a asus xonar u3??


 
 You won't think it sounds bad until you try it with a real amp.  Then you'll go, "Ooooohh, so this is what they meant!"


----------



## Silverwind

eclipse- said:


> might as well go with it, is the $40 difference with like new vs new on amazon does the like new has damage so it is much cheaper?



I picked up some "like new" Fidelio X1 headphones from amazon last week. The headphones and packaging were in beautiful shape. Saved $50 off new price it was worth it!

See my unboxing post, here http://www.head-fi.org/t/623013/new-philips-fidelio-x1/4590#post_10639847


----------



## Silverwind

stillhart said:


> Everything I've bought from Amazon Warehouse Deals in "Like New" condition has been indistinguishable from new.  Even "Very Good" was basically like new IMO.
> 
> You might also check the classifieds on this site for good deals if you're looking for used.  With the feedback rating system, you can be pretty confident that you're getting something in the condition specified.


 
 +1
  
 I hardly buy new anymore, unless it really warranted or if the price difference is not there. (same thing with cars, who wants to take the instant depreciation!)


----------



## Murder Mike

silverwind said:


> +1
> 
> I hardly buy new anymore, unless it really warranted or if the price difference is not there. (*same thing with cars*, who wants to take the instant depreciation!)


 
  
 I can without a doubt say that one of the worst decisions I've ever made was buying a new car.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> I can without a doubt say that one of the worst decisions I've ever made was buying a new car.


 
 I saved $14k on my current car buying it <1 year used.  It still had over 3 years of factory warranty and regular maintenance.  There's really no reason to ever buy a new car unless you simply CAN'T get it used (Tesla).
  
 For used headphones/amps/DAC's, with the reputation system on the classified and AWD categorizing the condition, seems like a no-brainer again.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> I saved $14k on my current car buying it <1 year used.  It still had over 3 years of factory warranty and regular maintenance.  There's really no reason to ever buy a new car unless you simply CAN'T get it used (Tesla).
> 
> For used headphones/amps/DAC's, with the reputation system on the classified and AWD categorizing the condition, seems like a no-brainer again.


 

 You have still got to watch out buying a used car..take a qualified mechanic with you..some times too good to be true deals are not what they seem..might need a new chassis!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> You have still got to watch out buying a used car..take a qualified mechanic with you..some times too good to be true deals are not what they seem..might need a new chassis!


 
 Oh agreed, which is why I got mine from a dealer.  I could have maybe saved a little more, but it was worth the peace of mind.


----------



## Change is Good

Vroom vroooom...


----------



## AxelCloris

Zoom zoom


----------



## Stillhart

It both vrooms and zooms.  It's a very sweet car.  :-D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

When you buy 'like new' you may save some money, but you forget one thing: no warranty (unless specifically stated). Those Amazon warehouse deals have no warranty.


----------



## Silverwind

mad lust envy said:


> When you buy 'like new' you may save some money, but you forget one thing: no warranty (unless specifically stated). Those Amazon warehouse deals have no warranty.


 
 True, but they do have a return policy, if you have any initial defects that you notice.  Down the road though, you may be out of luck, like you mention.


----------



## benbenkr

martin vegas said:


> Moon audio have just brought a Blue Dragon V3 Headphone Cable out for the hd558's and 598's and hd518's at $165.00 if anyone's interested!


 
  
 They cost more than the HD558 themselves? lol no thanks. Whoever buys into it, I uhm.... yeah.


----------



## martin vegas

benbenkr said:


> They cost more than the HD558 themselves? lol no thanks. Whoever buys into it, I uhm.... yeah.


 

 I agree, I sent moon audio a message over twitter saying that with no reply..you could get the hd650 for the price of the hd558 and the cable combined!!


----------



## kartikk

Hi 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 How good are the HD518 for gaming? are the HD 558/598 significantly better for gaming?
 Also How do the HD518 compare to k240 & dt990 for gaming?
 Thanks


----------



## Orion1991

I would go for the HD558 or AD700x for gaming. both have a large soundstage and both are pretty comfy.
 if you are running low on money you could grab Superlux HD EVO.


----------



## kartikk

orion1991 said:


> I would go for the HD558 or AD700x for gaming. both have a large soundstage and both are pretty comfy.
> if you are running low on money you could grab Superlux HD EVO.



I am running a little low on money 
So the superlux HD evo are better than the HD518 for gaming?
I thought the HD518 would be closer to the HD558/598 as they share the same driver


----------



## norbert69

Hi,
 I just ordered a new gaming pc with Asus Xonar DGX sound card.
 As I'm going to play first person shooters most of the time, I want to buy the Audio-Technica AD700x.
 Is the Asus Xonar DGX sound card a good configuration for this headphone or can you recommend a better one?
  
 Thanks and greeting from Germany!


----------



## Yethal

You can output dolby headphone through s/pdif and connect external dac+amp for even better sound, but the card alone is great.


----------



## Japi95




----------



## martin vegas

japi95 said:


> Hi dudes,i probably need some new headphones when i have now Beyerdynamic dt-990pro but my left ear so hurt  my ear skin like ''burn out'' any recommend headphones competitive gaming,And maybe i need sound card/dac plus amp combo? i dont own any sound card or dac/amp just have asus maximus vii ranger soundboard,And my budjet around 100-150euros


 

 I don't think that you will need a sound card if you already have radar 2 built into your mother board!


----------



## Japi95

martin vegas said:


> I don't think that you will need a sound card if you already have radar 2 built into your mother board!


 

 Ok Nice


----------



## Saintrocky

Skullcandy pyre 1 or steelseries h wireless ?

Want A wireless multi plattform gaming headset. Will Mainly use it on ps4, and for competitive fps/3ps gaming, and some movie watching.

Is the steelseries worth the extra money ? Cant find any VS threads/videos with those two. Only thing i know is that both are better than astro a50.

Im worried about the 2,4ghz band, dont like the noise. I see that skullcandy dont Get this noise ? Same with steelseries ?


----------



## Yethal

saintrocky said:


> Skullcandy pyre 1 or steelseries h wireless ?
> 
> Want A wireless multi plattform gaming headset. Will Mainly use it on ps4, and for competitive fps/3ps gaming, and some movie watching.
> 
> ...


 
 Go with astro 5.8 and high quality audiophile headphones. I have two pairs of steelseries headsets (siberias and 5hv2) and they are incredibly disappointing sound-wise.


----------



## Saintrocky

Mic to ps4 controller with 3.5, headset to mix amp, and amp connected to the plattform, right ?

Dont know if i want wired, was thinking about going wireless this time. Hm...


----------



## Yethal

you can output chat through usb, it would be easier


----------



## norbert69

norbert69 said:


> Hi,
> I just ordered a new gaming pc with Asus Xonar DGX sound card.
> As I'm going to play first person shooters most of the time, I want to buy the Audio-Technica AD700x.
> Is the Asus Xonar DGX sound card a good configuration for this headphone or can you recommend a better one?
> ...


 
  
 The Audio-Technica AD700x is not really available or ridiculously expensive (from 250 $ up) here in Germany.
 Other possible options for me are AKG K612 Pro, AKG K701 or Beyerdynamic DT990.
 What are the best alternatives for FPS gaming? 
 Thanks


----------



## appsmarsterx

norbert69 said:


> What are the best alternatives for FPS gaming?


 
  
 Q701


----------



## Stillhart

saintrocky said:


> Skullcandy pyre 1 or steelseries h wireless ?
> 
> Want A wireless multi plattform gaming headset. Will Mainly use it on ps4, and for competitive fps/3ps gaming, and some movie watching.
> 
> ...


 
 You might hold off for the new Turtle Beach that's coming out in the next week or two.  They have a new wireless headset that uses DTS Headphone X, has dual noise-canceling mics, wireless charging, etc.  No idea how it will sound, but it looks good on paper.
  
 Otherwise, I tried the PLYR1 and it worked great.  If you're in the market for an easy all-in-one wireless solution, it works fine.  Obviously getting real headphones sounds a lot better, which is why I didn't keep mine.   But if you're looking for feature, convenience and price, it's hard to beat.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> You might hold off for the new Turtle Beach that's coming out in the next week or two.  They have a new wireless headset that uses DTS Headphone X, has dual noise-canceling mics, wireless charging, etc.  No idea how it will sound, but it looks good on paper.
> 
> Otherwise, I tried the PLYR1 and it worked great.  If you're in the market for an easy all-in-one wireless solution, it works fine.  Obviously getting real headphones sounds a lot better, which is why I didn't keep mine.   But if you're looking for feature, convenience and price, it's hard to beat.


 

 He's better off getting the sennheiser 363d if he wants plug in and play and it comes with a dolby headphone surround amp!


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

yethal said:


> Go with astro 5.8 and high quality audiophile headphones. I have two pairs of steelseries headsets (siberias and 5hv2) and they are incredibly disappointing sound-wise.


 
  
 Is there a big difference between the Astro 5.8 and the Mixamp Pro or is the 5.8 just a firmware number? Sorry if this is a newb question.
  
 [Edited] On second look, I see that the 5.8 is a wireless solution compared to the Mixamp Pro being all wired. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is that the only benefit vs the pro?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> He's better off getting the sennheiser 363d if he wants plug in and play and it comes with a dolby headphone surround amp!


He specifically asked for wireless and multiplatform.


----------



## RolandOfEld

hiya guys
  
 I am in the market for a new set of headphones for PC gaming - I've read through a fair amount of this thread but being a bit of a newb its a little daunting to say the least
  
 My current set of headphones are Sennheiser HD595 which are connected to a Soundblaster Recon3D sound card. The HD595 left driver has started to distort/crackle so i need to replace them
  
 I dont really have a budget at the moment - i just want to get a feel for the current favourites out there amongst you.
  
 The main things i am looking for sound quality and comfort - my Hd595s did tend to get a bit uncomfortable after long gaming sessions
  
 Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Orion1991

@RolandOfEld what is your budget ?


----------



## RolandOfEld

@Orion1991 most i'd proabably want to spend is about $300


----------



## MightySam06

stillhart said:


> You might hold off for the new Turtle Beach that's coming out in the next week or two.  They have a new wireless headset that uses DTS Headphone X, has dual noise-canceling mics, wireless charging, etc.  No idea how it will sound, but it looks good on paper.


 
  
 Still,  Are you talking about the Elite 800's being released in "in the next week or two"?  I thought they had fall or winter release dates?  I'm all over the 800's so the sooner the release the better but to clarify, where'd you hear they are a week or two away from release?


----------



## Yethal

mista freeze 74 said:


> Is there a big difference between the Astro 5.8 and the Mixamp Pro or is the 5.8 just a firmware number? Sorry if this is a newb question.
> 
> [Edited] On second look, I see that the 5.8 is a wireless solution compared to the Mixamp Pro being all wired. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is that the only benefit vs the pro?


 
 Yep, it is wireless solution, aside from that it's as cool as the wired one


----------



## Stillhart

rolandofeld said:


> hiya guys
> 
> I am in the market for a new set of headphones for PC gaming - I've read through a fair amount of this thread but being a bit of a newb its a little daunting to say the least
> 
> ...


 
  
 For $300, I'd get a Fidelio X1 and an amp (E12, Magni, O2, etc).  You might have to go used on one or both items, but it's a sweet setup for the price.  I have a Recon3D and it's not the best sounding.  Even the Omni was a noticeable upgrade.  That said, an amp should help the sound a lot (the X1 doesn't need to be amped, but the amping does help tighten up the bass).
  


mightysam06 said:


> Still,  Are you talking about the Elite 800's being released in "in the next week or two"?  I thought they had fall or winter release dates?  I'm all over the 800's so the sooner the release the better but to clarify, where'd you hear they are a week or two away from release?


 
  
 Yes, that's the one.  The article I read during E3 suggested an early July release.  They could have released more information since then though, I haven't been keeping up.


----------



## MightySam06

stillhart said:


> Yes, that's the one.  The article I read during E3 suggested an early July release.  They could have released more information since then though, I haven't been keeping up.


 
  
 Thanks Still.  After a little digging it looks like the lower end P12's will be released on the 10th of July.  I wish it was the Elites, it's going to be a long wait for those.
  
 from polygon.com
  
 "The Ear Force P12, an amplified stereo gaming headset that offers game and chat audio through a USB connection on the PS4, will launch July 10. The P12 features 50mm speakers, adjustable bass boost, microphone monitor and an inline amplifier for easy access to volume controls. The P12 also disconnects from the in-line amp for use on PS Vita and other devices."


----------



## Stillhart

mightysam06 said:


> Thanks Still.  After a little digging it looks like the lower end P12's will be released on the 10th of July.  I wish it was the Elites, it's going to be a long wait for those.
> 
> from polygon.com
> 
> "The Ear Force P12, an amplified stereo gaming headset that offers game and chat audio through a USB connection on the PS4, will launch July 10. The P12 features 50mm speakers, adjustable bass boost, microphone monitor and an inline amplifier for easy access to volume controls. The P12 also disconnects from the in-line amp for use on PS Vita and other devices."


 
  
 Oh bummer.  I was looking forward to the TAC thing; I suppose that will also be a long wait...


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

mightysam06 said:


> Still,  Are you talking about the Elite 800's being released in "in the next week or two"?  I thought they had fall or winter release dates?  I'm all over the 800's so the sooner the release the better but to clarify, where'd you hear they are a week or two away from release?


 

 I've been reading on the Elite 800s all day. Looks like they will only offer support for the PS3/PS4. They are releasing a headset for the XBOne, but it appears to be a lower model the Stealth 500x, which is similar to the Stealth 400 they will make for Playstation. I really like the potential of the Elite 800 with the TAC. I'm wondering how it will compare to the Astro Mixamp and headphones/mic (Q701). I wish there was more info available. I'm afraid to pull the trigger now because I think the Elite 800s sound like they are going to be awesome when they come out.


----------



## AxelCloris

mista freeze 74 said:


> I've been reading on the Elite 800s all day. Looks like they will only offer support for the PS3/PS4. They are releasing a headset for the XBOne, but it appears to be a lower model the Stealth 500x, which is similar to the Stealth 400 they will make for Playstation. I really like the potential of the Elite 800 with the TAC. I'm wondering how it will compare to the Astro Mixamp and headphones/mic (Q701). I wish there was more info available. I'm afraid to pull the trigger now because I think the Elite 800s sound like they are going to be awesome when they come out.


 
  
 TAC is set to release in Winter 2014, so realistically some time in December. I hope to get my hands on a review version before they launch.


----------



## norbert69

norbert69 said:


> The Audio-Technica AD700x is not really available or ridiculously expensive (from 250 $ up) here in Germany.
> Other possible options for me are AKG K612 Pro, AKG K701 or Beyerdynamic DT990.
> What are the best alternatives for FPS gaming?
> Thanks


 
  
  


appsmarsterx said:


> Q701


 
 Any more opinions?


----------



## Change is Good

norbert69 said:


> Any more opinions?




Nope...


----------



## MightySam06

mista freeze 74 said:


> I've been reading on the Elite 800s all day. Looks like they will only offer support for the PS3/PS4. They are releasing a headset for the XBOne, but it appears to be a lower model the Stealth 500x, which is similar to the Stealth 400 they will make for Playstation. I really like the potential of the Elite 800 with the TAC. I'm wondering how it will compare to the Astro Mixamp and headphones/mic (Q701). I wish there was more info available. I'm afraid to pull the trigger now because I think the Elite 800s sound like they are going to be awesome when they come out.


 
 Best Buy has a product spec up for the Elite 800's which I swear wasn't up earlier in the day.  Anyway, they have a release date as 10/24/14, not sure the accuracy but it's something, maybe the TAC will be at or around there as well.  I'm drooling over these. 
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/turtle-beach-elite-800-wireless-dts-7-1-channel-surround-sound-gaming-headset-for-playstation-3-and-playstation-4/7354005.p?id=1219267041101&skuId=7354005


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> I've been reading on the Elite 800s all day. Looks like they will only offer support for the PS3/PS4. They are releasing a headset for the XBOne, but it appears to be a lower model the Stealth 500x, which is similar to the Stealth 400 they will make for Playstation. I really like the potential of the Elite 800 with the TAC. I'm wondering how it will compare to the Astro Mixamp and headphones/mic (Q701). I wish there was more info available. I'm afraid to pull the trigger now because I think the Elite 800s sound like they are going to be awesome when they come out.


 
  
 Okay just keep in mind that these are supposed to be the same $300 price as the A50.  When you get a lot more doo-dads for the same price, something has to give.  Likely it's going to be sound quality.  Since the A50 doesn't have the best SQ to begin with, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
  
 Now the standalone TAC is what really interests me (and folks on this thread) because it's looking to be a Mixamp-killer on paper.  Guess we'll find out in 6 months...
  


mightysam06 said:


> Best Buy has a product spec up for the Elite 800's which I swear wasn't up earlier in the day.  Anyway, they have a release date as 10/24/14, not sure the accuracy but it's something, maybe the TAC will be at or around there as well.  I'm drooling over these.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/turtle-beach-elite-800-wireless-dts-7-1-channel-surround-sound-gaming-headset-for-playstation-3-and-playstation-4/7354005.p?id=1219267041101&skuId=7354005


 
 Eh, I wouldn't get your hopes up.  TB doesn't make the best headphones.  If you're in the market today, get a sweet set of cans and hope for the TAC to be a good upgrade.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Okay just keep in mind that these are supposed to be the same $300 price as the A50.  When you get a lot more doo-dads for the same price, something has to give.  Likely it's going to be sound quality.  Since the A50 doesn't have the best SQ to begin with, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
> 
> Now the standalone TAC is what really interests me (and folks on this thread) because it's looking to be a Mixamp-killer on paper.  Guess we'll find out in 6 months...
> 
> Eh, I wouldn't get your hopes up.  TB doesn't make the best headphones.  If you're in the market today, get a sweet set of cans and hope for the TAC to be a good upgrade.


 
 Very little info on this site. Although dts 7.1 and bluetooth pairing with mobile looks sweet, the fact that it uses optical for audio makes me kinda doubt the rationale behind selling my perfectly good mixamp to buy this. Unless the usb dac portion of this is significantly better that 16/48 locked usb MixAmp. 
  
 BTW. Anybody knows wheter mixamp is capable of outputting better quality sound via USB?


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Very little info on this site. Although dts 7.1 and bluetooth pairing with mobile looks sweet, the fact that it uses optical for audio makes me kinda doubt the rationale behind selling my perfectly good mixamp to buy this. Unless the usb dac portion of this is significantly better that 16/48 locked usb MixAmp.
> 
> BTW. Anybody knows wheter mixamp is capable of outputting better quality sound via USB?


 
  
  
 Well the main things I think people are looking forward to:

DTS Headphone X
9.1 (with elevation not just flat surround) vs 5.1
Many people don't like the Dolby Headphone processing, even if it were 5.1 vs 5.1

Mixamp is hissy and has a weak amp.  Hopefully this isn't and doesn't.
Mixamp DAC is 16/48.  Hopefully this isn't.
  
 The other stuff is pretty comparable to the Mixamp so (at least IMO) not particularly interesting.
  
 EDIT - Mixamp doesn't output sound via USB (other than sending mic to Playstation).


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Well the main things I think people are looking forward to:
> 
> DTS Headphone X
> 9.1 (with elevation not just flat surround) vs 5.1
> ...


 
  
 I hope the TAC allows digital out. If I can run this into a desktop DAC I couldn't care less what the built-in DAC limit is. This is the first time I've seriously coveted something from TB. I'm not sure I like the feeling. 
  
 Native Mac compatibility FTW!


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Well the main things I think people are looking forward to:
> 
> DTS Headphone X
> 9.1 (with elevation not just flat surround) vs 5.1
> ...


 
 But Mixamp can be used as PC USB dac (just very ****ty one) Ok, I see a reason to buy the TAC  now. How cool would it be though, if somebody finally made hdmi passthrough virtual surround device that uses 7.1 24/192 lpcm as source?... And if consoles actually output 7.1 lpcm for games


----------



## Japi95

Can some one recommended some maybe closed back or open what type i'ts better counter strike global offensive competitive and i maybe go some lans where probably best is closed back ?
  
 i think AKG K612- Pro and AKG K-271 MKII


----------



## RolandOfEld

Thanks for the advice @Stillhart - ive had a look around and the Fidelio X1 is pretty price here in Australia - any other cans you like?
  
  
 Quote:


stillhart said:


> For $300, I'd get a Fidelio X1 and an amp (E12, Magni, O2, etc).  You might have to go used on one or both items, but it's a sweet setup for the price.  I have a Recon3D and it's not the best sounding.  Even the Omni was a noticeable upgrade.  That said, an amp should help the sound a lot (the X1 doesn't need to be amped, but the amping does help tighten up the bass).


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> Okay just keep in mind that these are supposed to be the same $300 price as the A50.  *When you get a lot more doo-dads for the same price, something has to give.  Likely it's going to be sound quality.  Since the A50 doesn't have the best SQ to begin with, I wouldn't get your hopes up.*
> 
> Now the standalone TAC is what really interests me (and folks on this thread) because it's looking to be a Mixamp-killer on paper.  Guess we'll find out in 6 months...
> 
> Eh, I wouldn't get your hopes up.  TB doesn't make the best headphones.  If you're in the market today, get a sweet set of cans and hope for the TAC to be a good upgrade.


 

 Honestly, I was thinking the same thing, but they make them sound so awesome. Lol What exactly makes you believe the TAC may be a Mixamp killer? I didn't find much info on the TAC (I was looking more for the Elite 800s) and the info I did, I didn't see anything that really jumped out at me. Maybe I just didn't understand what I read. Please enlighten me.


----------



## Stillhart

rolandofeld said:


> @Stillhart - ive had a look around and the Fidelio X1 is pretty price here in Australia - any other cans you like?


 
  
 I haven't heard them but the AKG K612 and the Soundmagic HP200 are both highly spoken of here; I personally own a Q701 and HP100 (the only two headphones I've kept to date) and I can believe all the good things people say about the K612 and the HP200.
  
  


mista freeze 74 said:


> Honestly, I was thinking the same thing, but they make them sound so awesome. Lol What exactly makes you believe the TAC may be a Mixamp killer? I didn't find much info on the TAC (I was looking more for the Elite 800s) and the info I did, I didn't see anything that really jumped out at me. Maybe I just didn't understand what I read. Please enlighten me.


 
   
 You must have missed this post:
  
 Quote:


stillhart said:


> Well the main things I think people are looking forward to:
> 
> DTS Headphone X
> 9.1 (with elevation not just flat surround) vs 5.1
> ...


 
  
 If everything about the TAC, including price, is exactly on par with the Mixamp except DTS Headphone X vs Dolby Headphone, the TAC will be a Mixamp killer.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> I haven't heard them but the AKG K612 and the Soundmagic HP200 are both highly spoken of here; I personally own a Q701 and HP100 (the only two headphones I've kept to date) and I can believe all the good things people say about the K612 and the HP200.
> 
> 
> 
> If everything about the TAC, including price, is exactly on par with the Mixamp except DTS Headphone X vs Dolby Headphone, the TAC will be a Mixamp killer.


 
  
 Touche'.


----------



## MightySam06

stillhart said:


> Eh, I wouldn't get your hopes up.  TB doesn't make the best headphones.  If you're in the market today, get a sweet set of cans and hope for the TAC to be a good upgrade.


 
  
 I've owned the X41's for a few years by TB and thought they sounded great until I bought and since returned the X1's, ATH-A700x's, A40's and 50's. I'm currently rolling with the E12 Monte Blanc, MixAmp Pro and the DT770 Pros and absolutely love the setup, but to be honest, I'm tired of all the wires strewn out all over my floor and want to go wireless. I would have kept the A50's had both sets not friggen malfunctioned on me. Right now, the 800's are exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm intrigued by the DTS Headphone X format and the noise cancellation feature is a big plus.  I'm not expecting the 800s to rival any of the earlier mentioned cans and I certainly don't have the knowledge or the experience to critique sound like most here but hell, if they sound good to me I'll likely keep them, if not, then back they go.


----------



## Stillhart

mightysam06 said:


> I've owned the X41's for a few years by TB and thought they sounded great until I bought and since returned the X1's, ATH-A700x's, A40's and 50's. I'm currently rolling with the E12 Monte Blanc, MixAmp Pro and the DT770 Pros and absolutely love the setup, but to be honest, I'm tired of all the wires strewn out all over my floor and want to go wireless. I would have kept the A50's had both sets not friggen malfunctioned on me. Right now, the 800's are exactly what I'm looking for.  I'm intrigued by the DTS Headphone X format and the noise cancellation feature is a big plus.  I'm not expecting the 800s to rival any of the earlier mentioned cans and I certainly don't have the knowledge or the experience to critique sound like most here but hell, if they sound good to me I'll likely keep them, if not, then back they go.


 
 I upgraded to a Mixamp 5.8 recently and that helped the cord situation a lot.  But I have to agree:  I'd love to have some kind of all-in-one wireless solution that sounds better than just acceptable.  I doubt it'll come from TB, but you never know. 
  
 Hope for the best, expect the worst...


----------



## nicobombai

Im still wondering what to get to get the most out of my AKG Q701 (Pc gaming).
 i looked at FiiO E09k but the review states that its not that good, my budget is around <$150 and in my country (Indonesia) the price of some brands are crazy expensive (around 200-300%) higher than what i see outside of my country.
  
 Is FiiO E09K okay for my Q701 ? or there is a better option ?


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Im still wondering what to get to get the most out of my AKG Q701 (Pc gaming).
> i looked at FiiO E09k but the review states that its not that good, my budget is around <$150 and in my country (Indonesia) the price of some brands are crazy expensive (around 200-300%) higher than what i see outside of my country.
> 
> Is FiiO E09K okay for my Q701 ? or there is a better option ?


 
 Fiio E9K should be fine


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Fiio E9K should be fine


 
 I agree.  Sure there are better out there, but if your options and budget are limited, it will definitely be an improvement.
  
 Disclaimer - I haven't actually heard the pairing.  But Q701 needs amping so any amp will help.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> I agree.  Sure there are better out there, but if your options and budget are limited, it will definitely be an improvement.
> 
> Disclaimer - I haven't actually heard the pairing.  But Q701 needs amping so any amp will help.


 
 I know that it has little bit too high output impendance for low sensitivity headphones, but Q701 should be unaffected.


----------



## AvroArrow

nicobombai said:


> Im still wondering what to get to get the most out of my AKG Q701 (Pc gaming).
> i looked at FiiO E09k but the review states that its not that good, my budget is around <$150 and in my country (Indonesia) the price of some brands are crazy expensive (around 200-300%) higher than what i see outside of my country.
> 
> Is FiiO E09K okay for my Q701 ? or there is a better option ?


 

 It will be fine, I have an E09k driving my K702 Annies which have the same power requirements as the Q701.  The only thing I'd caution is to buy it from a place with good service/return/exchange policy.  I'm on my 3rd E09k, 1st was dead power brick right out of the box, 2nd had its LED die after 3-4 months (everything else still worked, just no LED), 3rd one is fine so far.  Fortunately I bought it from a local shop that has excellent service so I was able to just got back to the shop and exchange it for a new unit... twice.  Now if I had bought it online then I'd be out some $$$ shipping it back to the shop twice.  YMMV.


----------



## Stillhart

FYI, Playstation Wireless Gold headset is on sale on Amazon for $70 right now.  Anyone looking for a cheap all-in-one wireless solution for the PS4 (and doesn't care about surround), this is a really good deal.  I can't speak to the SQ, but I haven't heard anyone complain yet.


----------



## Gamer-Fi

Hi would the base station from a turtle beach px5 do the job with fidelio x1 and a boom pro mic?
Would I be able to chat on the ps4 and would the sound quality of the dolby headphone from the px5 base station be as good as the astro mixamp?


----------



## Lundmore

Hey guys, just a few quick Q's.
  
 How well does the A700x compare to the AD700x in terms of competitive fps gameplay (in terms of soundstage etc..)
  
 I can pick the A700x's up for $179.00AUD at the moment, would I be better off with a different pair of closed headphones for around that price? I need a closed pair as I often play near people or in noisy situations.
  
 Thanks in advance!
  
  
 Edit: forgot to add I'm currerntly running through a X-Fi Fatal1ty Professional series.


----------



## Change is Good

Soundmagic HP100


----------



## conquerator2

gamer-fi said:


> Hi would the base station from a turtle beach px5 do the job with fidelio x1 and a boom pro mic?
> Would I be able to chat on the ps4 and would the sound quality of the dolby headphone from the px5 base station be as good as the astro mixamp?




I am using the PX5 station and the X1 worked fine with it... Though it starts to distort in the bass at roughly 80% volume and up. A second amplifier did improve the sound a bit but not drastically... It does not have a mic output though, so...

The DH processing is the same as the Mixamps though.


----------



## Gamer-Fi

conquerator2 said:


> I am using the PX5 station and the X1 worked fine with it... Though it starts to distort in the bass at roughly 80% volume and up. A second amplifier did improve the sound a bit but not drastically... It does not have a mic output though, so...
> 
> The DH processing is the same as the Mixamps though.




Firstly thanks for your reply. So there would be no way to have chat using a boom pro mic and the px5 station? Maybe via the controller?


----------



## conquerator2

gamer-fi said:


> Firstly thanks for your reply. So there would be no way to have chat using a boom pro mic and the px5 station? Maybe via the controller?



Either using the controller or use one output for both the headphone and the microphone but that way you won't be able to regulate microphone volume levels...
Via controller it should be possible I believe?


----------



## Gamer-Fi

conquerator2 said:


> Either using the controller or use one output for both the headphone and the microphone but that way you won't be able to regulate microphone volume levels...
> Via controller it should be possible I believe?



I think i might just have to get the mixamp, would the mixamp also be good enough use with the pc for movies and music? Im really not looking forward to the bucketload of wires across my floor but the wireless 5.8 mixamp is impossible to order her in The Netherlands nobody has it in stock.


----------



## Stillhart

gamer-fi said:


> I think i might just have to get the mixamp, would the mixamp also be good enough use with the pc for movies and music? Im really not looking forward to the bucketload of wires across my floor but the wireless 5.8 mixamp is impossible to order her in The Netherlands nobody has it in stock.


 
 They don't make the Mixamp 5.8 anymore so it's impossible to order anywhere.  Ebay is your best bet -- I snagged mine for $40!
  
 Personally, I think the Mixamp sounds pretty bad so I wouldn't use it on a PC where you have a lot more options.  Get a good cheap sound card for the PC.  There's a cheap Asus Xonar that people on here like, but I don't recall the name.


----------



## Lundmore

change is good said:


> Soundmagic HP100


 
  
 Would I need an amp for those? Or is my sound card adequate for the task?


----------



## Change is Good

lundmore said:


> Would I need an amp for those? Or is my sound card adequate for the task?


 
  
 Should be fine. Just ask our good friend, Stillhart, from a couple posts up...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Should be fine. Just ask our good friend, Stillhart, from a couple posts up...


 
 Correct, no amp needed for these.  
  
 I haven't actually tried gaming with these yet, BTW.  I use them for music at work (for which they're fantastic).


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> FYI, Playstation Wireless Gold headset is on sale on Amazon for $70 right now.  Anyone looking for a cheap all-in-one wireless solution for the PS4 (and doesn't care about surround), this is a really good deal.  I can't speak to the SQ, but I haven't heard anyone complain yet.




It's built kinda like the original Beats headphones, but IIRC it actually does Dolby Headphone for PS3/4 audio. And, it has a cable if you want to use it with a mobile device without Bluetooth. It's not going to be a world-beating headphone, but if you want surround, wireless, inexpensive......


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Fiio E9K should be fine


 


stillhart said:


> I agree.  Sure there are better out there, but if your options and budget are limited, it will definitely be an improvement.
> 
> Disclaimer - I haven't actually heard the pairing.  But Q701 needs amping so any amp will help.


 


avroarrow said:


> It will be fine, I have an E09k driving my K702 Annies which have the same power requirements as the Q701.  The only thing I'd caution is to buy it from a place with good service/return/exchange policy.  I'm on my 3rd E09k, 1st was dead power brick right out of the box, 2nd had its LED die after 3-4 months (everything else still worked, just no LED), 3rd one is fine so far.  Fortunately I bought it from a local shop that has excellent service so I was able to just got back to the shop and exchange it for a new unit... twice.  Now if I had bought it online then I'd be out some $$$ shipping it back to the shop twice.  YMMV.


 
  
 Thanks guys 
  
 At my local retailers here actually they also have good customer service and return policy (fortunately the stores are only about 10-20 mins from my house) sooo if have a problem with the products i can bring back to them straight away.. I think i will get the FiiO Eo9K. Many thanks to everyone


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> It's built kinda like the original Beats headphones,* but IIRC it actually does Dolby Headphone for PS3/4 audio*. And, it has a cable if you want to use it with a mobile device without Bluetooth. It's not going to be a world-beating headphone, but if you want surround, wireless, inexpensive......


 
  
 Eh, no~
  
 The Gold uses Sony's own proprietary HRTF, sounds nothing like DH, not even close. If I have to compare, it's more remotely close to Razer surround with a slightly wider soundstage and just as poor rear cues.


----------



## Yethal

benbenkr said:


> Eh, no~
> 
> The Gold uses Sony's own proprietary HRTF, sounds nothing like DH, not even close. If I have to compare, it's more remotely close to Razer surround with a slightly wider soundstage and just as poor rear cues.


 
 Knowing that Razer Surround is godawful I think I'm going to pass on these.


----------



## dakanao

Is there a headphone out there with a large soundstage, good imaging while still having a lot of bass impact and clarity? 
  
 I bought the X1, and they had all of this, but the fit is really awkward on my head, and that's why the imaging gets weird for me so I had to return them.


----------



## martin vegas

dakanao said:


> Is there a headphone out there with a large soundstage, good imaging while still having a lot of bass impact and clarity?
> 
> I bought the X1, and they had all of this, but the fit is really awkward on my head, and that's why the imaging gets weird for me so I had to return them.


 

 Sennheiser HD650!


----------



## G3org3

Hello I'm looking for advice. I only play on ps4 and only play fps games so looking for best setup for competitive gaming. Would the akg q701 work fine with just the 2013 mixamp pro I'll be using a blue snowball mic so it plugs straight into the ps4 so only the headphones will be going into the mixamp ?
Also what's better for my needs sennheiser 598s of q701 ?


----------



## conquerator2

g3org3 said:


> Hello I'm looking for advice. I only play on ps4 and only play fps games so looking for best setup for competitive gaming. Would the akg q701 work fine with just the 2013 mixamp pro I'll be using a blue snowball mic so it plugs straight into the ps4 so only the headphones will be going into the mixamp ?
> Also what's better for my needs sennheiser 598s of q701 ?




Blue snowball does go directly into the PS4 usb. As for the Q701 vs 598... I'd choose the easiest to drive good sounding headphone. Like the MA900 or X1. Q701 is not ideal with just the Mixamp. Can't speak for the Senns though.


----------



## G3org3

conquerator2 said:


> Blue snowball does go directly into the PS4 usb. As for the Q701 vs 598... I'd choose the easiest to drive good sounding headphone. Like the MA900 or X1. Q701 is not ideal with just the Mixamp. Can't speak for the Senns though.




I thought the mixamp powered the q701 fine if no mic was added to mixamp ?


----------



## conquerator2

g3org3 said:


> I thought the mixamp powered the q701 fine if no mic was added to mixamp ?




Just okay


----------



## G3org3

conquerator2 said:


> Just okay




What amp should I get if I go for the q701 ?


----------



## PurpleCow

This is an amazing post! Instead of creating my own thread I will just ask here.
  
 I got a new ps4, I'm looking for the best 7.1 headset BUT it has to be WIFI I hate cables. What would you guys recommend?


----------



## conquerator2

g3org3 said:


> What amp should I get if I go for the q701 ?




Magni is the cheapest one. Possibly Fiio E12 or E9. Audio GD basic units are good too. Matrix Mstage is great as well. Some people like the Vali and the EF2A too...


----------



## Evshrug

g3org3 said:


> I thought the mixamp powered the q701 fine if no mic was added to mixamp ?




With just the Mixamp, the Q701 will have plenty of volume and honestly sound fine, I often do just this when I want to just pickup a quick game of CoD. If you are listening to music and all your attention is focused on the sweetness and separation of instruments, then the Q701 will scale up when you add a dedicated amp. It's technically on the same level as the best headphones in the $250-$300 range, though without an extra amp like a Schiit Vali it will only sound a little better than average $150 headphones... it will be good, it's just that adding an amp will reveal it's true capabilities.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *With just the Mixamp, the Q701 will have plenty of volume and honestly sound fine*, I often do just this when I want to just pickup a quick game of CoD. If you are listening to music and all your attention is focused on the sweetness and separation of instruments, then the Q701 will scale up when you add a dedicated amp. It's technically on the same level as the best headphones in the $250-$300 range, though without an extra amp like a Schiit Vali it will only sound a little better than average $150 headphones... it will be good, it's just that adding an amp will reveal it's true capabilities.




I would respectfully disagree, there, Ev... but that's just me


----------



## martin vegas

Anyone tried the akg k545 for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I would respectfully disagree, there, Ev... but that's just me



Well unless the Wireless Mixamp has more power than the wired version... mine can take the volume on my Q701 louder than I can stand listening.

I do prefer to use a good amp with it, but I usually advise people to try the Q701 with and without an extra amp, so they can appreciate the gain (lol) and maybe spread out their costs.





martin vegas said:


> Anyone tried the akg k545 for gaming?



I think Change did, he liked it but had to pass it on when he needed the money.


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> Anyone tried the akg k545 for gaming?


 
 They look kinda weird, I wonder how they sound


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I think Change did, he liked it but had to pass it on when he needed the money.




Both sets I recieved were defected, so I returned em.


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> They look kinda weird, I wonder how they sound


 

 They are like the k550 but have improved bass!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Both sets I recieved were defected, so I returned em.



Oooooh that's right... Am I recalling correctly that your first one had a dead driver, but you liked what you heard in the one ear that worked so you tried another pair? And then when that pair had a problem, you had also gotten your soundmagic and basically didn't want to bother with the K545 anymore?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

By sheer irony, my DNA On Ear also broke on one side, like my DNA over ear. This was after not having used them in a while and letting my friend borrow them. I mean, I expected this. The signs were there. Doesn't make it any less frustrating. I don't blame him.

You have to baby the DNAs particularly at the hinges. It still works, though I had to apply quite of bit of black electrical tape. A bit less than last time though. Had I paid for these... I wouldn't have stood for it, however.

From now on, and perhaps via future edits, I'm gonna be adding a section in my reviews labelled something like "Unfiltered Brutally Honest Impressions"

This will be a short section clearly stating what I like and don't like about every headphone. So basically, this section will be like a throwback to my old style reviews where I would bluntly state what I like and dont like. Be ready for this, as this will be the no nonsense opinion of mine, without professional tact.

Nothing is safe.


----------



## conquerator2

Obvious headphone flaw is obvious... Criminal when not fixed for SEVERAL iterations... All Beats and Monsters have them...


----------



## G3org3

I just ordered the akg q701 going to try them just with the astro mixamp then if I need a extra amp I'll pick one up. Last question, how will I know if they need the extra amp?


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> I would respectfully disagree, there, Ev... but that's just me


 
 Hey, how would the Soundmagic HP200 be for rap/hiphop music and gaming?


----------



## Stillhart

g3org3 said:


> I just ordered the akg q701 going to try them just with the astro mixamp then if I need a extra amp I'll pick one up. Last question, how will I know if they need the extra amp?


 
  
 For gamin you'll know if you just can't get them loud enough once you have your game/chat balance where you like it.
  
 For music, you will always need the extra amp.


----------



## G3org3

stillhart said:


> For gamin you'll know if you just can't get them loud enough once you have your game/chat balance where you like it.
> 
> For music, you will always need the extra amp.




Thanks for the reply. It's only gaming I'll be using them for so basicaly if I feel I need them louder get an fiio e9 or similar amp ?


----------



## Evshrug

g3org3 said:


> I just ordered the akg q701 going to try them just with the astro mixamp then if I need a extra amp I'll pick one up. Last question, how will I know if they need the extra amp?




You'll know you need to upgrade your amping situation if:
-the final mix of audio is too quiet
-Bass sounds flabby and has weak impact
-Instruments seem blended together and lack a sense of size
-soundstage lacks a sense of layering (that instrument is further back, behind this instrument)
-any sign of clipping or distortion.

Most of this is subtle differences (but appreciated!), so it is often lost on gaming because so much is going on or because games usually have a resource budget and the audio is presented at less than "full" quality. The new headphones you ordered will definitely have an immediate advantage for you though


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> By sheer irony, my DNA On Ear also broke on one side, like my DNA over ear. This was after not having used them in a while and letting my friend borrow them. I mean, I expected this. The signs were there. Doesn't make it any less frustrating. I don't blame him.
> 
> You have to baby the DNAs particularly at the hinges. It still works, though I had to apply quite of bit of black electrical tape. A bit less than last time though. Had I paid for these... I wouldn't have stood for it, however.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you contacted them, personally, and brought these issues to their attention? I'm interested as to what their reply was, or would be...
  
  


evshrug said:


> Oooooh that's right... Am I recalling correctly that your first one had a dead driver, but you liked what you heard in the one ear that worked so you tried another pair? And then when that pair had a problem, you had also gotten your soundmagic and basically didn't want to bother with the K545 anymore?


 
  
 Yea, something like that. Though, the soundmagics weren't the reason (didn't come until way later). The K545s were supposed to be my portables, at the time....


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> I just ordered the akg q701 going to try them just with the astro mixamp then if I need a extra amp I'll pick one up. Last question, how will I know if they need the extra amp?


 
 You'll need it. Just trust the Oracle (MLE)


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> You'll need it. Just trust the Oracle (MLE)


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


>


 
 On the figure A we are seeing the Oracle trying to figure out Astro Mixamp connection


----------



## Evshrug

Lol you guys! Perfect picture Axel.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Lol you guys! Perfect picture Axel.


 
  
 In case you guys didn't know, MLE is HOT!


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> In case you guys didn't know, MLE is HOT!




I'm a fan.

Don't mind the edit, I had to delete something.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I'm a fan.
> 
> Don't mind the edit, I had to delete something.


 
  
 Glad you caught it early. I mean, it's silly to post your phone number on a public forum just to get MLE senpai's attention.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Glad you caught it early. I mean, it's silly to post your phone number on a public forum just to get MLE senpai's attention.




Don't make my face redder than it is already!

So, um...
Been playing a bit of the most recent HD remake of Resident Evil 4. Sound cues are actually pretty good! Though I've been lazy about amping lately  I also purchased a used DT880, call me crazy but I had to know. Still haven't sold my Q's. I'm really looking forward to playing Destiny again, any recommendations for a USB mic to use with a PS4?


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Don't make my face redder than it is already!
> 
> So, um...
> Been playing a bit of the most recent HD remake of Resident Evil 4. Sound cues are actually pretty good! Though I've been lazy about amping lately
> ...


 
 Try Samson Go Mic. Nice sleek and efficient.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Don't make my face redder than it is already!
> 
> So, um...
> Been playing a bit of the most recent HD remake of Resident Evil 4. Sound cues are actually pretty good! Though I've been lazy about amping lately  I also purchased a used DT880, call me crazy but I had to know. Still haven't sold my Q's. I'm really looking forward to playing Destiny again, any recommendations for a USB mic to use with a PS4?




Blue Microphone Snowball is pretty amazing for the price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, Change, can't be arsed to talk to them about this, as I told them to fix the build quality in future iterations. My friends just went back to Denmark after being with me for 3 weeks, and I gave him the DNA On Ear, since its not like I was using them, and they were given to me anyways. I prefer the Over Ear, which is great, and fits my head well, after breaking and being fixed with electrical tape, lol.

And I agree, I've been incredibly lazy with amping and sources. Been happy just plugging into my laptop, phone, mixamp. I may hold on to the E17 for a possible 400i future, but I have no desire to have an extravagant setup anymore. The simpler, the better. Just been using the HFI-15G almost exclusively. My KSC75's been shorting out on one side, and not sure I wanna spend 8 dollars to ship to Koss for fixing. Will probably get yet another Sportapro for the retrofitted KSC35 drivers and use with the KSC75 clips.

I am getting tired of my clip ons getting lost, damaged, etc. I love them, but seem to have really bad luck with them. So I have just been taking the Ultrasone to work.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, Change, can't be arsed to talk to them about this, as I told them to fix the build quality in future iterations. My friends just went back to Denmark after being with me for 3 weeks, and I gave him the DNA On Ear, since its not like I was using them, and they were given to me anyways. I prefer the Over Ear, which is great, and fits my head well, after breaking and being fixed with electrical tape, lol.
> 
> And I agree, I've been incredibly lazy with amping and sources. Been happy just plugging into my laptop, phone, mixamp. I may hold on to the E17 for a possible 400i future, but I have no desire to have an extravagant setup anymore. The simpler, the better. Just been using the HFI-15G almost exclusively. My KSC75's been shorting out on one side, and not sure I wanna spend 8 dollars to ship to Koss for fixing. Will probably get yet another Sportapro for the retrofitted KSC35 drivers and use with the KSC75 clips.
> 
> I am getting tired of my clip ons getting lost, damaged, etc. I love them, but seem to have really bad luck with them. So I have just been taking the Ultrasone to work.


 
  
 I really hope you do end up getting 400i in the future. I minimized my setups as well, except for my desktop. My E12 was rather unnecessary once the K612 was sold... so I passed it on. And damn, dude, you've had some bad luck with headphones as of late. Glad the Ultrasones seem sturdy and efficient... and are doing their job for ya 
  
 On another note...


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I'm selling my Watch Dogs for PS4 if anyone is interested. Amazon rejected my trade in for "Incorrect UPC" because it was a Wal-Mart exclusive copy. They really screwed me because I was actually getting a decent trade in value ($40) before rejection. The "mom n pops" store, here, is offering me $30 trade in... so make me an offer guys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ironically, the 'sones are rather inefficient volume-wise by design, though it's not due to power requirements. Still, they do behave like a hard to drive headphones in terms of needing more for volume.

As comfy as they are (they are super comfy), they do hurt my right ear (I'm super sensitive there) after a bit, which is a shame. Guess I have to rely on my Koss clip ons for pure unadulterated comfort, but of course I'd love some audiophile SQ... and I don't feel like paying $23 for yet another Sportapro.

And yeah, the 'sones are indestructible. I don't see these ever messing up, other than maybe a speaker blown, or the pads going bad.

Was thinking about getting some Philips clip ons to see how they stack up... but I expect veiled sound.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Don't make my face redder than it is already!
> 
> So, um...
> Been playing a bit of the most recent HD remake of Resident Evil 4. Sound cues are actually pretty good! Though I've been lazy about amping lately
> ...


 

 I have resi 4 on the wii, had good graphics for the wii..it's the last good resi game, no games out on ps4 need to play something..glad I never played the last of us or I wouldn't have anything to play next month aswell..p.s nice choice of headphones!


----------



## pack21

Which one will give more wow! factor for PS4 FPS games? 

Akg Q701 + turtle TAC

Or 

Turtle Elite 800 DTS 7.1 , can this headset be a killer over wired headfones?


----------



## appsmarsterx

pack21 said:


> Which one will give more wow! factor for PS4 FPS games?
> 
> Akg Q701 + turtle TAC
> 
> ...


 
  
 you already have ma900


----------



## pack21

Yeap, but I'm looking a setup for a friend and maybe I'm interested selling him my mixamp pro and buy the TAC for me.

The q701 for compare with my ma900.


----------



## conquerator2

pack21 said:


> Which one will give more wow! factor for PS4 FPS games?
> 
> Akg Q701 + *turtle TAC*
> 
> ...


 
 How are we supposed to know?
  
 They are not released yet...


----------



## pack21

I know, but TAC seems a sure upgrade over Mixamp. Promise no hiss, and have more surround presets. Let's see what is coming.


----------



## conquerator2

Oh, I am surely getting TAC. But Q701>>>> any wireless/wired Turtle Beach headset. 90% of commercially acclaimed headsets are crap.


----------



## DC1976

zombie_x said:


> Hi Gents,
> 
> After playing around with the adapter design, I've come around to the final design. The entire body of the adapter will be made of metal with glue shrink holding it together. I've wired all the internal with solid core copper. This also insures the highest quality signal will be sent, though I have considered wiring the internals with solid core Silver. The new design is more snug with the AKG as well. The 1/8" jack I used has a smaller entry, so the Boom Pro wont turn nearly as much as the prototype I made.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Zombie,
  
 Following your progress on these adapters with great interest (just bought the 701s for gaming). Looking forward to the next update!
  
 DC


----------



## themunce

So the AKG Q701's aren't compatible with the V-moda boom mic?


----------



## themunce

conquerator2 said:


> Oh, I am surely getting TAC. But Q701>>>> any wireless/wired Turtle Beach headset. 90% of commercially acclaimed headsets are crap.


 
 when it the TAC coming out? I sure hope to see some comparison's to the Mixamp. I'm fine with my mixamp, tried TB mixers before, but would always like to see something beat out the mixamp at some point.


----------



## grumpy1471

themunce said:


> So the AKG Q701's aren't compatible with the V-moda boom mic?




Nope. The K/Q7xx line use Mini XLR connectors for the headphones. Zombie_X is currently working on getting the XLR to 3.5mm adapters tested and ready to sell. Those will work with the Boom Pro and any other 3.5mm cord.


----------



## grumpy1471

Hey guys, 

Any solid recommendations for closed back, over the ear headphones? I'm looking into some good headphones for portable gaming and music use. I'm not sure as to which closed headphones will have a good enough soundstage while still being great for music. I'm looking into foldable headphones for portability.

So far, the V-Moda M100, PSB M4U 1 or 2 and Mad Dogs seem pretty decent.


----------



## themunce

grumpy1471 said:


> Nope. The K/Q7xx line use Mini XLR connectors for the headphones. Zombie_X is currently working on getting the XLR to 3.5mm adapters tested and ready to sell. Those will work with the Boom Pro and any other 3.5mm cord.


 
 ETA?


----------



## grumpy1471

themunce said:


> ETA?




Sorry, no clue. You may have to ask Zombie_X directly. You can check back periodically on the testing thread as hopefully it will be updated as the testing gets done. Here's the link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


----------



## NamelessPFG

For all the talk this TAC thing gets, an HDMI input/video passthrough would be nice.
  
 Also, we're making an awful lot of assumptions about its performance and DTS Headphone:X's performance in particular. While I'd like to test it out myself, I can't rule out the possibility that it might actually end up being worse.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's AC3 -> DTS: Headphone X?
  
 No DTS?


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> For all the talk this TAC thing gets, an HDMI input/video passthrough would be nice.
> 
> Also, we're making an awful lot of assumptions about its performance and DTS Headphone:X's performance in particular. While I'd like to test it out myself, I can't rule out the possibility that it might actually end up being worse.




There are a couple iOS apps with Hans Zimmer soundtracks in pre-baked DTS Headphone X (and of course Zimmer saying "Left-front speaker..."), not interactive like a game but I thought it sounded good. Well, I say not interactive, but you can switch on/off DTS headphone X mode live while the batman or superman music is playing. Historically, DTS encoding is less compressed than Dolby too, though like anything in this hobby there are people who prefer one over the other... There was an episode of Big Bang Theory where a pretty new girl moves in upstairs and has Leonard set up a home theater for her; Leonard set it to use DTS "...because it has more bass" and Sheldon says "I hate you."


----------



## dakanao

Hey guys, how would the Soundmagic HP100 be for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

Two people in this thread use it and rave about it often.


----------



## Yethal

As far as I know PS4 uses AMD audio software which is supposedly awesome and badass etc. So, a question has to be asked, is there a way for PS4 to output virtual surround through optical as two channel pcm stream so we can have both positional accuracy and audiophile level sound quality?


----------



## benbenkr

You got it wrong.
  
 PS4 has AMD APIs and the hardware DSP for hardware-level processing, however there hasn't been a single game that is being mixed or developed this way yet. There ware some ramblings about Sony trademarking some names for use with their products (not nessasarily justthe  PS4, which many got their pants wet over nothing), this could mean the ability to just enable virtual surround with a flick of an option button.
  
 Then again, the only game that has been released with AMD's TrueAudio is Thief on the PC and that sucked horribly (or is there another now?). So... yeah, whatever. We're still at a state where virtual surround isn't a thing for the vast majority.


----------



## Yethal

Damn, and here I thought I can have virtual surround without relying on dolby digital.


----------



## Stillhart

grumpy1471 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Any solid recommendations for closed back, over the ear headphones? I'm looking into some good headphones for portable gaming and music use. I'm not sure as to which closed headphones will have a good enough soundstage while still being great for music. I'm looking into foldable headphones for portability.
> 
> So far, the V-Moda M100, PSB M4U 1 or 2 and Mad Dogs seem pretty decent.


 
  
 I tried the Denon AH-D600, the Mad Dog 3.2 with Alpha Pads and the SoundMAGIC HP100 before I settled on the HP100.  The sound signature is really similar to that of the Q701, but you know... closed instead of open (smaller SS, more bass, etc).  They're super easy to drive, they come with a nice case and a removable cable too.  I got a refurb for $135 shipped and at that price it's a no-brainer.  Fantastic headphones!
  
 Note:  I've never gamed with them yet!  I'll have to do it at some point so I can stop saying that...


----------



## AUserName501

I've used a lot of different virtual surroud sound software and listened to a lot of binaural audio. I've come to the conclusion that IEMs are the best for gaming due to sharper imaging than full sized open headphones. Most notably imaging in front of the head is better which is the hardest part to localise sounds.
  
 I'm currently using the Etymotic ER-4PT and the only full sized headphones that have come close to that level of sharpness in imaging is the Sennheiser HD800. While full sized headphones sound 'airy' that isn't as important for competitive gaming where the position of sounds is more important. Another important aspect is the sound isolation that IEMs bring is amazing for LAN events, tournaments and their small size means they are really portable. I use a Giant Squid Lavalier Omni mic and just clip it on to my shirt.
  
 My personal opinion is that the best full sized gaming headphones are the Sennheiser HD800 (possibly SR-009 too) and the best IEMs for competitive gaming are the Etymotic (HF5 and ER-4PT). No doubt there are CIEMs that are even better but I don't have the disposable income to test them.
  
  
 I would recommend the HF5 simply because it measures almost identically to the Etymotic ER-4P and is considerably cheaper. The benefit of the Etymotic ER-4PT is that the drivers are matched to each other but that isn't really worth it to me.
  
 ER-4S is as detailed as the ER-4P but the ER-4S is brighter. This may mean the ER-4S is better for competitive gaming because there is little useful information in bass but that would also mean it is less fun.
  
 I'd recommend that MadLustEnvy does a review with the Etymotic HF5 and expands out into IEMs.
  
  
 On another point I'd say that using virtual surround extensively with music listening will improve your ability to localise sounds in front of your head. At first I used to have a huge amount of trouble localising sounds in this area but after listening for such a long time I can now localise sounds much better. However, if you switch to another pair of IEMs with a different frequency response you will no longer be able to localise sounds in front of your head anywhere near as well.
  
 What this means is that you should find the Virtual Surround Sound software you like, set it up as you like and stick to the same pair of IEMs for a long time. If you constantly switch between IEMs you're going to find this much harder to do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It'll be a cold day in hell when I expand to IEMs, no offense. I hate IEMs.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> It'll be a cold day in hell when I expand to IEMs, no offense. I hate IEMs.




Don't like things poking you in the ear, huh?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, no. That and I hate how closed they sound. I'm not a fan of closed cans in general,m and IEMs makes things even worse. I know there are exceptions, but I don't care enough to find out.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, no. That and I hate how closed they sound. I'm not a fan of closed cans in general,m and IEMs makes things even worse. I know there are exceptions, but I don't care enough to find out.




I'll just send my sonys with the HP200 whenever you're ready


----------



## wabithewarlord

Hey guys,
 I'm from Brazil, here we don't have as many options as you guys from Europe or USA... I did a research around the stores here and I found these over-ear options:
  
 - AKG K240 MKII for R$499,00
 - Sennheiser HD558 for R$679,00
 - Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro for R$749,00
 - Sennheiser HD598 for R$949,00
 - AKG Q701 for R$1059,00
 - Sennheiser HD600 for R$1399,00
  
 Based on price (since I want budget-wise solution) what would be the best option? I'm looking for a solid all-rounder gaming headphone, not concerned with competition gaming but aiming for immersion. You can make your own suggestions, of course, but I'll need to search for them here in Brazil. 
  
 EDIT: Price correction.


----------



## Kamakahah

Think you'd enjoy the JVC FX850s sound quite a bit. Huge sound stage and vented is very far from a closed sound. 
I should send them your way and pop that IEM cher...you know. Mad Lust Envy


----------



## grumpy1471

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, no. That and I hate how closed they sound. I'm not a fan of closed cans in general,m and IEMs makes things even worse. I know there are exceptions, but I don't care enough to find out.




I find that IEMs are just not all that great. They're good for some music listening when I don't want to carry my M80s around and a heck of a lot better for when I'm laying down as I tend to lay on my side but otherwise, they're not all that great. My GR07 Bass Editions are quite enjoyable for EDM and such played from my phone when I'm not at home. 

IEMs tend to strain my ears a bit when I'm listening. For gaming, I would recommend against anything with harshness as gunshots will be really hard on the ears. I don't find that IEMs have much soundstage at all and gaming competitively is just torture with in ears because it's hard to hear where sounds are coming from.

Comfort is bad with IEMs for me. My ears can get itchy, irritated, sore, etc when I wear them for a while. I can never find the best tips for my GR07s. Silicone gives off the best sound but doesn't isolate much and isn't too comfortable whereas comply foams just completely ruin the sound. I'm also a clean freak so I have to clean the insides of my ears before I use IEMs so that I won't have to clean them later. 

For some reason, when I wear in ears and I'm watching a YouTube video in which someone is talking, my ears tend to... seize up or something. Not even sure how to describe it but it's like my ears are trying to block out noise and it's kind of worrisome. 

Tl;dr IEMs are okay for some situations but overall aren't worth the discomfort for me.


----------



## grumpy1471

Oh and for some reason, yesterday was my first time in a while playing CoD: Ghosts with my K712s. It was surprising how well I did with the god mode sound whoring. I managed to get over a 5 K/D for a few matches in Cranked before calling it a night. 

I hate Ghosts but I can sustain a 2 K/D and can usually dominate most people in the game so I continue to play it. Even when I dominate, I never seem to have a good time playing but the satisfaction of kicking online butt is enough to keep me going.


----------



## Stillhart

wabithewarlord said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm from Brazil, here we don't have as many options as you guys from Europe or USA... I did a research around the stores here and I found these over-ear options:
> 
> - AKG Q701 for R$1059,00
> ...


 
 People seem to really like the HD558 and it's the cheapest on your list.  I see no reason to spend more on something else given your criteria.


----------



## wabithewarlord

Sorry, I've made a mistake, the price for HD558 is R$679,00, not R$479,00. Does the K240 have a good soundstage for it's price range?


----------



## Yethal

wabithewarlord said:


> Hey guys,
> I'm from Brazil, here we don't have as many options as you guys from Europe or USA... I did a research around the stores here and I found these over-ear options:
> 
> - AKG K240 MKII for R$499,00
> ...


 
 558 will be fine


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the 990 Pro would be the better choice for immersion, assuming they're okay with a strong treble output. The 558 is great, but still wouldn't be one of my recommended picks for immersion and all around gaming. It'd be leaning more towards competitive.

If the Sony MA-900 could be found in Brazil for a good price, I'd recommend that the most.

If you can deal with the Q701's price... perhaps try also ordering some 65th Anniversary pads for it, which will DEFINITELY be my top recommendation out of your list, assuming you can afford it all.


----------



## AUserName501

grumpy1471 said:


> I find that IEMs are just not all that great. They're good for some music listening when I don't want to carry my M80s around and a heck of a lot better for when I'm laying down as I tend to lay on my side but otherwise, they're not all that great. My GR07 Bass Editions are quite enjoyable for EDM and such played from my phone when I'm not at home.
> 
> IEMs tend to strain my ears a bit when I'm listening. For gaming, I would recommend against anything with harshness as gunshots will be really hard on the ears. I don't find that IEMs have much soundstage at all and gaming competitively is just torture with in ears because it's hard to hear where sounds are coming from.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Disagree on gunshots being harsh but that is pretty subjective and gunshots being louder is better for competitive gaming as louder makes it easier to locate where the sound comes from. I personally don't have comfort issues with my Etymotic ER-4P IEMs but that has come from a lot of experience in how to insert them and to what depth. Some people seem to have reactions to anything touching their ears and that isn't solely an IEM issues. Comply tips have no effect on the sound if the foam is not covering the sound bore and they offer even better isolation and comfort to some people. They can be expensive though.
  


mad lust envy said:


> It'll be a cold day in hell when I expand to IEMs, no offense. I hate IEMs.


 
  
 Fair enough but the only headphones I can tolerate for gaming are the Sennheiser HD 800 after extended use of my ER-4P. The imaging on the K702 and HD 600 just sounds blurry to me now. I'll consider buying the Noble Kaiser 10 as a flagship comparison but I don't think I can stomach the cost, fit issues and low resale value.
  
 Another thing that people should consider whe using open headphones is building a PC that is quite. Fan noise is noticably distracting to me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I live in a perpetual state of fan noise, and I've used open headphones since the beginning. I've learned to mentally block my fans out regardless. I can't live without a fan. Even with something as open as the MA900 or HE-400, fan noise really doesn't bother me.


----------



## grumpy1471

ausername501 said:


> Disagree on gunshots being harsh but that is pretty subjective and gunshots being louder is better for competitive gaming as louder makes it easier to locate where the sound comes from. I personally don't have comfort issues with my Etymotic ER-4P IEMs but that has come from a lot of experience in how to insert them and to what depth. Some people seem to have reactions to anything touching their ears and that isn't solely an IEM issues. Comply tips have *no effect on the sound* if the foam is not covering the sound bore and they offer even better isolation and comfort to some people. They can be expensive though.




I can confirm that they do have an effect on the sound and I've seen many people say the same with the Complys and the GR07 on the GR07 tips thread. They seem to absolutely kill the highs. I make sure to insert them correctly and push the foam back away from the center plastic piece on the tips. On my JVC HA-FX40s, however, the Complys greatly improved the sound.


----------



## conquerator2

I agree. It's not very loud, in fact my PS3 super slim makes a far more irritating high pitched fan noise, it's something that just 'disappears' when you're fully immersed in a game.
Much like the AC that's on during hot days.


----------



## grumpy1471

mad lust envy said:


> I live in a perpetual state of fan noise, and I've used open headphones since the beginning. I've learned to mentally block my fans out regardless. I can't live without a fan. Even with something as open as the MA900 or HE-400, fan noise really doesn't bother me.




I always have fan noise from my PC, PS4 or Xbox 360 on one side of my room and the noise from my air purifier on the other side (which also doubles as a fan on hot days). When I have everything off, it's just too quiet


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

Removed.


----------



## grumpy1471

tenmoonsnorth said:


> http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comply-foam-tips-and-effects-tip-selection
> 
> Measurements showing marginal differences. If it sounds muffled it is because the sound bore is being covered by the foam.




There's a lot of debate on the subject from what I've seen. Not really on topic with the thread though lol. I've tried so many different ways of inserting them and nothing seems to make a difference. Maybe foams aren't meant for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Foam tips are the only tips I can live with on IEMs, but on every IEM I've owned, it has killed the highs, and made things overly bassy. And yes, I've inserted them correctly. I just have bad luck with IEMs.


----------



## fastbuck

does anyone know if the turtle beach tac will come in a wireless solution as well. kinda like the mixamp 5.8. i wouldn't want to go back to wired headphones but would love to be able to also get dts signals decoded to a headphone surround system. especially for blu-ray or dvd which i often have to decode to dd 5.1 beforehand so i can watch/hear them with my mixamp.


----------



## AxelCloris

fastbuck said:


> does anyone know if the turtle beach tac will come in a wireless solution as well. kinda like the mixamp 5.8. i wouldn't want to go back to wired headphones but would love to be able to also get dts signals decoded to a headphone surround system. especially for blu-ray or dvd which i often have to decode to dd 5.1 beforehand so i can watch/hear them with my mixamp.


 
  
 I have the official press release and it doesn't mention wireless for the TAC, but it also doesn't implicitly state that it's wired-only either. But knowing Turtle Beach's announcements and the gaming market as a whole, wireless is a big buzz word so if it were going to be wireless I would imagine they'd be sure to point that out. It was a short while after the Mixamp came out that Astro introduced the Mixamp 5.8, so assuming the TAC does well we may see them evolve the product down the road to allow wireless transmission. If wireless is a must, you may be able to pair the TAC with an external wireless transmitter like this one from FiiO. There are others on the market but that's a good starting point.


----------



## fastbuck

thx @axelcloris for your input. yeah i figured they would explicitly say "wireless" in the press release and as i now saw the first picture of the device it looks like the wired mixamp 2013 without a receiver device. hope they'll add a wireless one in the future!


----------



## AxelCloris

fastbuck said:


> thx @axelcloris for your input. yeah i figured they would explicitly say "wireless" in the press release and as i now saw the first picture of the device it looks like the wired mixamp 2013 without a receiver device. hope they'll add a wireless one in the future!


 
  
 Wireless would be a strong addition, but I'm glad they skipped it in the first generation TAC. That will allow them to focus on the integration of the core tech and work out any bugs before moving into the wireless realm which will only open the possibility for more issues. My preference for devices like this is sound quality first and convenience second. Besides, if they sell a bunch of first gen wired TACs then release a wireless version 8 months to a year later that'll bring in a lot of revenue for Turtle Beach.


----------



## pack21

mad lust envy said:


> I think the 990 Pro would be the better choice for immersion, assuming they're okay with a strong treble output. The 558 is great, but still wouldn't be one of my recommended picks for immersion and all around gaming. It'd be leaning more towards competitive.
> 
> If the Sony MA-900 could be found in Brazil for a good price, I'd recommend that the most.
> 
> If you can deal with the Q701's price... perhaps try also ordering some 65th Anniversary pads for it, which will DEFINITELY be my top recommendation out of your list, assuming you can afford it all.




Hi MLE, which headfone can be even better than MA900, for imersion and SS\3D perception on games like BF4?

They seems awesome for me, but if exist even better i would like to check. 


Thx


----------



## AUserName501

Hmmm...
  
 I think part of the reason that IEMs have clearer imaging may be related to noise attentuation. If you have 26dB of noise attentuation then it becomes much easier to spatialise sounds. I spent some time in a very quiet room without fan noise and went back and forth between my HD 600s and ER-4P and found the imaging to be mostly the same. Full-size open headphones sound more real but that may be because of the psychoacoustic effect of having your ears sealed and the lack of background noise. I wonder if full size headphones would sound like IEMs in an anechoic chamber. Hopefully, I can test that someday.
  
 Sounds at 45° round to 135° are easy to spatialise for both sides. It is the area in front of the head and behind the head where it is difficult spatialise. You can get back to front reversals where sound that should coming in front of you sounds like it is coming from behind. I'll spend some more time focusing on this area in comparing the Sennheiser HD 600 to the Etymotic ER-4P.


----------



## pack21

ausername501 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I think part of the reason that IEMs have clearer imaging may be related to noise attentuation. If you have 26dB of noise attentuation then it becomes much easier to spatialise sounds. I spent some time in a very quiet room without fan noise and went back and forth between my HD 600s and ER-4P and found the imaging to be mostly the same. Full-size open headphones sound more real but that may be because of the psychoacoustic effect of having your ears sealed and the lack of background noise. I wonder if full size headphones would sound like IEMs in an anechoic chamber. Hopefully, I can test that someday.




Wow! I gonna try my ER-4P for gaming tomorrow, because i left them at work. Would be nice if they have so good imersion as you sense. Thx for advise.

I can try SM3 tonight.


----------



## AUserName501

pack21 said:


> Wow! I gonna try my ER-4P for gaming tomorrow, because i left them at work. Would be nice if they have so good imersion as you sense. Thx for advise.
> 
> I can try SM3 tonight.


 
  
 IEMs are massively underrated for gaming which I think is undeserved. The airy property of open headphones adds to the experience but we are often in environments where isolation from noise is required.


ausername501 said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I think part of the reason that IEMs have clearer imaging may be related to noise attentuation. If you have 26dB of noise attentuation then it becomes much easier to spatialise sounds. I spent some time in a very quiet room without fan noise and went back and forth between my HD 600s and ER-4P and found the imaging to be mostly the same. Full-size open headphones sound more real but that may be because of the psychoacoustic effect of having your ears sealed and the lack of background noise. I wonder if full size headphones would sound like IEMs in an anechoic chamber. Hopefully, I can test that someday.
> 
> Sounds at 45° round to 135° are easy to spatialise for both sides. It is the area in front of the head and behind the head where it is difficult spatialise. You can get back to front reversals where sound that should coming in front of you sounds like it is coming from behind. I'll spend some more time focusing on this area in comparing the Sennheiser HD 600 to the Etymotic ER-4P.


 
  
 Hmmm...
  
 Spent some time listening again to binaural tracks. Listening with my Etymotics is like listening with a black backgroud. Listening with my Sennheiser HD 600 is like there is a thin layer of blur over the image. Not a huge difference but enough that I would prefer using my Etymotics. Another reason I prefer them is that you are effectively gaming in silence which I find helps with immersion.


----------



## Stillhart

Don't forget that some of us prefer to have open headphones because we can't be completely isolated.  I need to hear if my baby is crying or if my wife needs me.  She HATES when she's talking to me and I can't hear her.
  
 Also, I haven't yet heard an IEM that sounds as good as my Q701... ever.  That said, I've never heard a real IEM like the Etymolics.  One day, I'll drop the cash, but I'm in no rush.


----------



## pack21

stillhart said:


> Don't forget that some of us prefer to have open headphones because we can't be completely isolated.  I need to hear if my baby is crying or if my wife needs me.  She HATES when she's talking to me and I can't hear her.
> 
> Also, I haven't yet heard an IEM that sounds as good as my Q701... ever.  That said, I've never heard a real IEM like the Etymolics.  One day, I'll drop the cash, but I'm in no rush.


 
  
  
 Have you some cloud about Q701 vs MA900?


----------



## grumpy1471

mad lust envy said:


> Foam tips are the only tips I can live with on IEMs, but on every IEM I've owned, it has killed the highs, and made things overly bassy. And yes, I've inserted them correctly. I just have bad luck with IEMs.




Yep that's the way it is for me. Foams ruin the sound of my GR07 so I choose the slightly more uncomfortable silicone tips. My FX-40s had really prominent highs so the foams actually made them a bit more balanced which improved the sound.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> Don't forget that some of us prefer to have open headphones because we can't be completely isolated.  I need to hear if my baby is crying or if my wife needs me.  She HATES when she's talking to me and I can't hear her.
> 
> Also, I haven't yet heard an IEM that sounds as good as my Q701... ever.  That said, I've never heard a real IEM like the Etymolics.  One day, I'll drop the cash, but I'm in no rush.




I get angry when people try to talk to me when I have headphones on lol. I can't hear them and yet they'll just stare at me ant try to talk. I prefer open headphones more so for comfort. There's less heat buildup because of the velours and open headphones aren't as tough on sensitive ears. 

As for nothing stacking up to your Q701, I haven't heard anything better than my K712 yet. Then again, I've only heard IEMs, on-ears and over ears that are around half the price of my K712s


----------



## Stillhart

pack21 said:


> Have you some cloud about Q701 vs MA900?


 
  
 Never heard the MA-900 as they were discontinued before I got into head-fi and they're impossible to find at a reasonable price now.
  


grumpy1471 said:


> I get angry when people try to talk to me when I have headphones on lol. I can't hear them and yet they'll just stare at me ant try to talk. I prefer open headphones more so for comfort. There's less heat buildup because of the velours and open headphones aren't as tough on sensitive ears.
> 
> As for nothing stacking up to your Q701, I haven't heard anything better than my K712 yet. Then again, I've only heard IEMs, on-ears and over ears that are around half the price of my K712s


 
  
 I specifically mentioned IEM's as I'm sure there are plenty of headphones in the $400+ range that sound better.  Hell I'm sure there are IEM's in that range that blow them out of the water too, but I've never heard them and probably won't until I win the lottery.


----------



## AUserName501

stillhart said:


> Never heard the MA-900 as they were discontinued before I got into head-fi and they're impossible to find at a reasonable price now.
> 
> 
> I specifically mentioned IEM's as I'm sure there are plenty of headphones in the $400+ range that sound better.  Hell I'm sure there are IEM's in that range that blow them out of the water too, but I've never heard them and probably won't until I win the lottery.


 
  
 You can get the Etymotic HF2/3/5 for about $70 used. They measure pretty much the same as the ER-4P and the ER-4P has detail retrieval equivalent to the Sennheiser HD 600.


----------



## Stillhart

ausername501 said:


> You can get the Etymotic HF2/3/5 for about $70 used. They measure pretty much the same as the ER-4P and the ER-4P has detail retrieval equivalent to the Sennheiser HD 600.


 
  
 I don't actually want one in the slightest.  I am pretty happy with my Q701 for home and HP100 for work and travel.  I'd be worried about damaging or losing hose teeny little IEM's.  Not to mention used IEMs are gross, even with new tips.  
  
 Don't try to convince me, you're wasting your breath.  I'm very hard-headed.


----------



## AxelCloris

Gaming with customs is an excellent experience, I will say. No need for foam tips since it's molded to my canals. Great detail and clarity with a decent soundstage. It's not as big as a nice open headphone, sure, but it's great considering it's an IEM. I know Change loves his Sonys for gaming as well.


----------



## grumpy1471

stillhart said:


> I specifically mentioned IEM's as I'm sure there are plenty of headphones in the $400+ range that sound better.  Hell I'm sure there are IEM's in that range that blow them out of the water too, but I've never heard them and probably won't until I win the lottery.




I'm toying with the idea of ordering some IE80s but I highly doubt I will until I get into the $1000+ headphone territory (which will be a long time from now or never) lol. Just comparing size makes IEMs appear as a waste of money compared to headphones. They're so easily misplaced, forgotten, damaged, etc. I have my current IEMs sitting in a Pelican 1010 case when I don't use them.


----------



## grumpy1471

axelcloris said:


> Gaming with customs is an excellent experience, I will say. No need for foam tips since it's molded to my canals. Great detail and clarity with a decent soundstage. It's not as big as a nice open headphone, sure, but it's great considering it's an IEM. I know Change loves his Sonys for gaming as well.




The big issue is that customs are expensive. I think there are a couple in the $200-400 range though. The great noise isolation and comfort makes me want a pair.



stillhart said:


> I don't actually want one in the slightest.  I am pretty happy with my Q701 for home and HP100 for work and travel.  I'd be worried about damaging or losing hose teeny little IEM's.  Not to mention used IEMs are gross, even with new tips.
> 
> Don't try to convince me, you're wasting your breath.  I'm very hard-headed.




I tend to take many precautions with my IEMs. I rarely throw them in my pocket, keep them in a case, clean my ears, etc. It's a hassle but I guess it's worth it to extend the life of the IEM. 

I agree with IEMs being gross. I'm reluctant to let any friends use mine and I don't want to use anyone else's. Plus, cleaning my ears every day just sucks.


----------



## AxelCloris

grumpy1471 said:


> The big issue is that customs are expensive. I think there are a couple in the $200-400 range though. The great noise isolation and comfort makes me want a pair.
> I tend to take many precautions with my IEMs. I rarely throw them in my pocket, keep them in a case, clean my ears, etc. It's a hassle but I guess it's worth it to extend the life of the IEM.
> I agree with IEMs being gross. I'm reluctant to let any friends use mine and I don't want to use anyone else's. Plus, cleaning my ears every day just sucks.


 
  
 Yeah, customs can be quite expensive. But there are cheaper methods to get them. There's a company in Florida that will re-shell universal IEMs for about $95. Or you can buy single or dual drivers to save some money as well. Mine cost about $325 once all was said and done. I bought the CIEM second hand and had them re-shelled. Factor in the cost of my impressions and shipping and it's still about $200 cheaper than buying from the manufacturer directly. Isolation is second to none I've heard and on-par with the Etymotic HF3 that I had a couple years ago. And that's even with the special high-isolation Comply tips.
  
 I clean my ears daily. It's a habit and compulsive. I feel unclean if I don't do it. Heck, I keep Q-tips at work just in case I get that feeling any time throughout the day. But then again I've been cleaning them daily since I began mixing audio when I was 9 so I'm definitely used to it by this point. And with a custom you'll never need to share your IEMs with anyone since it's physically impossible to do so.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Gaming with customs is an excellent experience, I will say. No need for foam tips since it's molded to my canals. Great detail and clarity with a decent soundstage. It's not as big as a nice open headphone, sure, but it's great considering it's an IEM. *I know Change loves his Sonys for gaming as well.*




Yes I do!


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> Yes I do!




I was actually considering buying a pair of XBA-H3s used a while back. Ended up settling for my V-Sonics. Are you using custom tips of any kind?


----------



## Change is Good

I've had both the GR07 MK2 and GR07 BE... preferred the BE. With that said, these sonys blow them away.

As for tips, I recently bought some ortofons with a wider bore. It opens the soundstage even more, while taming the bass a bit. The Sony tips are too small at the bore and tend to sound slightly congested after switching.


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> I've had both the GR07 MK2 and GR07 BE... preferred the BE. With that said, these sonys blow them away.
> 
> As for tips, I recently bought some ortofons with a wider bore. It opens the soundstage even more, while taming the bass a bit. The Sony tips are too small at the bore and tend to sound slightly congested after switching.




I do enjoy my Bass Editions quite a bit. The thing is, the Sony's are double the price so it would be expected that the GR07s are blown away  

I use the Sony hybrid tips mostly on my GR07s. I read through the GR07 tips thread and someone mentioned that flipping the comply tips around (so that the part that would be in your ear is facing the IEM instead) actually helps. I tried it and it actually worked! You can feel the tubing in your ear a bit at first but the muffled and muddy sound goes away and is improved slightly to my ears over the hybrids.


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> I do enjoy my Bass Editions quite a bit. *The thing is, the Sony's are double the price so it would be expected that the GR07s are blown away  *
> 
> I use the Sony hybrid tips mostly on my GR07s. I read through the GR07 tips thread and someone mentioned that flipping the comply tips around (so that the part that would be in your ear is facing the IEM instead) actually helps. I tried it and it actually worked! You can feel the tubing in your ear a bit at first but the muffled and muddy sound goes away and is improved slightly to my ears over the hybrids.




Paid $179 for the BE when I first had it. Paid $240 for the H3 when it was on sale. Not double the price for me...


----------



## grumpy1471

change is good said:


> Paid $179 for the BE when I first had it. Paid $240 for the H3 when it was on sale. Not double the price for me...




Ah... That seems like a pretty great deal. I paid $140 for the BE and the H3 are $300 right now from what I could see. Close enough I guess


----------



## Fegefeuer

Fidelio X2 incoming, supposedly at a high price


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Ah... That seems like a pretty great deal. I paid $140 for the BE and the H3 are $300 right now from what I could see. Close enough I guess




Yea I had the BE around the time it first released (before the color tips)... hence the full price I paid...




fegefeuer said:


> Fidelio X2 incoming, supposedly at a high price




I've been waiting for this... but why the flagship price tag?!? The X1 was $399 when it first released. Over $1000 for these?


----------



## grumpy1471

fegefeuer said:


> Fidelio X2 incoming, supposedly at a high price




Rumored to be around $1300 right? That's just too much for me so I will probably end up passing at that price. It better as well have removable pads this time around 

Edit: Yaaaay! Hundredth post!


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> *Rumored to be around $1300 right?* That's just too much for me so I will probably end up passing at that price. It better as well have removable pads this time around
> 
> Edit: Yaaaay! Hundredth post!




We can only hope it's just that... a rumor...


----------



## AxelCloris

grumpy1471 said:


> Rumored to be around $1300 right? That's just too much for me so I will probably end up passing at that price. It better as well have removable pads this time around
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If they don't have removable pads at that price then I doubt they'll sell well. A headphone in the $1000+ range should last a lifetime.


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone want to buy watch dogs on the ps4 for $30 plus shipping? If not guess I'll be trading it in for the same price, tomorrow.


----------



## grumpy1471

axelcloris said:


> If they don't have removable pads at that price then I doubt they'll sell well. A headphone in the $1000+ range should last a lifetime.


 
 Yeah for sure. Philips would be absolutely insane not to add removable pads.
  
  


change is good said:


> Anyone want to buy watch dogs on the ps4 for $30 plus shipping? If not guess I'll be trading it in for the same price, tomorrow.


 
 I'm not interested in buying but why are you selling? Did you finish the game already or did it not live up to the expectations as most people are saying?


----------



## Change is Good

grumpy1471 said:


> Yeah for sure. Philips would be absolutely insane not to add removable pads.
> 
> 
> I'm not interested in buying but why are you selling? Did you finish the game already or did it not live up to the expectations as most people are saying?




Beat it and don't play it anymore. I'm not much of a gamer, like I used to be, to justify keeping it. Figured I'd let one of you get it for what I'm being offered as trade in. 

Tried to trade it in at amazon for $40 but got rejected since it's a "Wal-Mart exclusive." Arseholes...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like how the X2 looks exactly the same as the X1, catering to small heads yet again. Those drivers better give out orgasms. And if the pads aren't removable after ALL the complaints...well, shame on Philips.

A headphone I will surely never, EVER try, at that ridiculous price point.


----------



## Kamakahah

I can't imagine them trying to jump into the $1000+ arena. Too many big boys to compete with. They'd really have to bring something special,
Especially considering its predecessor is in the low to low-mid tier price bracket and looks pretty much the same - That's going to be a hard sell.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm feeling productive, so you guys may see the 15G review something soon. I left it half done for a few months. Figured I may as well do it as a potential recommendation for an open, bassy, comfy headphone under $100. Not many open bassy cans, let alone, one as potent as the 15G.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm feeling productive, so you guys may see the 15G review something soon. I left it half done for a few months. Figured I may as well do it as a potential recommendation for an open, bassy, comfy headphone under $100. Not many open bassy cans, let alone, one as potent as the 15G.




You feel productive enough to review the HP200 towards the end of the month? Do you still have those shure velours? I'm curious as to how open they'll sound with them, granted it doesn't get too bright for my taste.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No... I'm only doing the 15G because it's been my heaphone for quite a few months now, and I've already written half the review. At the moment, I don't wanna jump into another headphone, especially when I haven't been playing much of anything lately, let alone games that highlight positional cues, soundstaging, etc.


----------



## RolandOfEld

stillhart said:


> For $300, I'd get a Fidelio X1 and an amp (E12, Magni, O2, etc).  You might have to go used on one or both items, but it's a sweet setup for the price.  I have a Recon3D and it's not the best sounding.  Even the Omni was a noticeable upgrade.  That said, an amp should help the sound a lot (the X1 doesn't need to be amped, but the amping does help tighten up the bass).
> 
> 
> Yes, that's the one.  The article I read during E3 suggested an early July release.  They could have released more information since then though, I haven't been keeping up.


 
 ok so i have ordered the Fidelio X1's, hopefully it wont take too long to arrive to australia from the states.. now for the amp.. are the FiiO E12's the general consensus around these parts? or have i got other options i can look at?
  
 Once again i appreciate any help/advice


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

E12, Magni, O2, E17 will all work fine at that entry price point.


----------



## Stillhart

rolandofeld said:


> ok so i have ordered the Fidelio X1's, hopefully it wont take too long to arrive to australia from the states.. now for the amp.. are the FiiO E12's the general consensus around these parts? or have i got other options i can look at?
> 
> Once again i appreciate any help/advice


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> E12, Magni, O2, E17 will all work fine at that entry price point.


 
  
 E12 and E17 are portables.  E17 is a DAC too, which will work for your non-gaming (like taking with your iphone or whatever).
  
 E9, O2 and Magni are desktop units.  In general, desktops units tend to be more bang for your buck.
  
 I haven't heard any of those models so I can't speak to the differences from first-hand experience.  I think you'd be happy with any of them.  I'd probably recommend the O2 or Magni if you don't plan on moving it away from your console (based on what I've read).  I'm sure others will chime in too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only potential problem with the Magni is the fact that it is quite high in gain, and you may not have much play in the volume control, where the Magni may get loud quite early with the X1.

Stillhart, I haven't been active much lately, but I have seen you being very, very helpful here. You have my thanks. I'll add you to the contributor list on the guide. 

The 15G review is nearly done.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Subject to changes. If anyone sees any mistakes, please let me know. Been about 3 months since my last review, so the quality may be subpar...




*Ultrasone HFI-15G*




$90-range

*Where To Buy*: Amazon.com (3rd party sellers)



Spoiler: Review



The Ultrasone HFI-15G. After having come off the impressively comfortable, closed headset variant, the HS-15, I knew I had to try the 15G. I desperately wanted a lively, open, and super comfortable headphone that I could lay down and relax to (which is less than ideal with full-sized headphones), and on paper, the 15G suited that need perfectly. Did it suit these needs in execution?



*Build Quality:*

Rating: Excellent

_Before I begin, I need to mention that there was an older 15G model with gold lettering and different exterior cup design, with an incredibly long cable. The one being reviewed is the newer model with gray lettering, and short cable. I currently can't confirm whether the differences are entirely aesthetic, or if there are sonic differences between them._

Not much has changed coming from the HS-15. It is basically identical in build, with the exceptions being the lack of an oversized boom-mic, semi-open cups vs. the closed cups on the HS-15, and a standard, very short 3.5mm cable.

I'll basically paste what I've written on the HS-15, adding/omitting the differences.

The HFI-15G has a retro 80's vibe to it's design, with an all black plastic frame. The HFI-15G reminds me of the many cheap no-name headphones found in any store in terms of aesthetics. It's all function over form, substance over style, which fits it's intentions in every way.

The headband is covered in relatively cheap looking, but smooth synthetic leather. It sits perfectly on the head, and you could potentially bend and twist it in any which way without so much as even a minor scare of it breaking.

The round cups are held by short plastic arms that would allow plenty of extension for my longish head. The cups look reminiscent of car rims with silver accents. The arms have gray S-Logic/Ultrasone HFI-15G branding.

The foam ear pads are supraaural/on ear, reminiscent of Koss Portapro, and the Sennheiser PX-100, though larger, and considerably softer. The HFI-15G pads are thicker and more plush, though you can feel a thinner circular area in the middle (which I'm sure is to not muffle up the sound.)

The cable itself is quite short. The cable terminates into a 3.5mm plug with a generous strain relief.

Overall, while the HFI-15G certainly looks cheap, there are seemingly no real structural weaknesses anywhere on it's frame, and the plastic looks like it could take a lot of abuse. You could bend the headband and twist the cups, yet it'd go back to it's normal shape without any issue whatsoever. It's a wonder how headphones this relatively inexpensive can take any abuse short of a nuclear strike, yet headphones costing over 10x the price would crumble under any minor stress. I can safely say that these would suit anyone that needs a beater headphone to toss around and abuse without any real consequences.



*Accessories:*

3.5mm extension cable: Considering how short the cable is on the HFI-15G, it is a logical choice to include an extension cable. That being said, the length of the extension cable is borderline illogical, as it is extremely long. I'd recommend using some other extension cable with a more modest length, for less potential sacrifice to the sound quality, and less cable management.



*Comfort:*

Rating: Great

I'll paste what I've said of the HS-15, as the comfort is absolutely identical, aside from slightly less weight due to a lack of boom microphone. The difference in weight is negligible, as they're both incredibly light.

The HFI-15G is easily THE most comfortable supraaural headphone I have owned to date, outside of the Koss/Yuin clip ons (which may be on ear, but as clip ons, don't sit on the ear the same way as headphones with headbands).

The HFI-15G is incredibly lightweight, and rests on the ears just enough to not be loose, but tight enough to stay secure. The only issue I have is that my right ear gets sore after a prolonged session, though that may be a personal sensitivity issue, as I get no discomfort on my left ear. I have to assume that if others have less sensitive ears, the HFI-15G may be near perfection (9.5) in comfort for them.

Again, these are arguably the most comfortable headphones I have ever worn outside of the Koss KSC75 and Yuin G1A. I'd argue that the Sony MA900 may beat it solely due to the fact that it (mostly) rests around the ears, though with it's larger frame and my inability to relax and lay down with them in the same way as the HS-15, I would honestly reach for the HFI-15G over the MA900 more times than not if I were basing everything off comfort. I'm positive that some who didn't find the MA900 to be comfortable, would think otherwise of the HFI-15G.

Long story short, if you want excellent comfort, it simply doesn't get much better than this for an on ear headphone, and perhaps any other kind of headphone.



*Design Issues:*

The only issue I see with the HFI-15g is that the non-detachable cable is very short, and unless you provide your own extension cable, you'll have to contend with the unruly and overly lengthy extension cable provided with the 15G.



*Isolation/Leakage:*

Rating: Fair

It honestly leaks about as much as the closed HS-15, which is to say, it doesn't isolate all too well, though doesn't get loud either. As with any open headphone, they do not make for the best headphones if you need absolute silence in or out. It does block out sound better than something like a KSC75, which is like wearing nothing at all.



*Sound:*

Rating: Good

Whereas the HS-15 was very, very warm, the HFI-15G is noticeably less warm (though definitely still on the warm side), with prominent bass emphasis, though considerably less so compared to the (exceedingly) heavy bass tilt on the HS-15. The end result is a more balanced sound signature, though not natural by any stretch of the word. It is unquestionably less polarizing and more likely to be favored over the HS-15. It is undoubtedly better sounding than the HS-15 in almost all regards, though the price difference seems steep.

The Ultrasone hits a nice sweet spot between fun and balance, with a definitely tilt towards fun. It also loves to be played on a moderately higher volume, despite Ultrasone's aim at mitigating volume level by a considerable amount.

As with the HS-15, the HFI-15G is sensitive to ear placement and it could benefit from a tighter clamp for SQ-reasons (at the expense of it's stellar comfort). That being said, the 15G would likely be a hit to fans of headphones with considerable bass, openness, and comfort.



*Bass:*

Rating: Great

The HFI-15G's bass is full, strong, and lively with a notable emphasis in the mid-bass. As with all Ultrasones I've heard to date, the bass is very well textured and controlled. The speed and decay is moderate despite it's prominence, which as far as I've known and heard, is an Ultrasone specialty. Not many other headphones that yield the 15G's control. The 15G's bass is more fleshed out and better integrated with the rest of the sound compared to the HS-15, though the Pro 900, and Pro 2900, which sounded more artificial, stood out as some of the tightest, most refined, bass I've heard, despite their more artificial tonality in other areas. The level of prominence on the 15G's bass will take some attention away from the mids, though it is by no means invasive or bloated, just strong.



*Mids:*

Rating: Decent

The mids are a hit or miss with the 15G. The mids aren't particularly lost in the mix, though I would place blame on the S-Logic messing with the mids the most. S-Logic to me, seems to artifically enhance the sense of space by pushing things further away in the soundstage, which results in things sounding distant in general. The mids fall on the thinner, distant side compared to the bass, though they aren't hampered by the treble whatsoever. Due to the bass control and generally even mids to treble response, the 15G comes off as bass first, mids and treble second. The upper mids to lower treble are definitely the most recessed part of the 15G's sound signature, which then lead up to a treble spike for some sparkle.



*Treble:*

Rating: Quite Decent

The treble is overall on the smooth, buttery side, with a noticeable peak for sparkle at around 10khz, which sounds cleaner and clearer than the stifled and muted treble output of the HS-15. I would've preferred a broader range of treble emphasis, as the HFI-15G is still on the rolled off side overall, though at louder volumes, it is quite even sounding, if just short of the neutral line of emphasis. Due to the disparity between anything before and after 10khz, the particular spike can become a nuisance if your volume level is catering to the other frequencies. Nowhere near as problematic as the DT990 or HE-400's treble spike, however.



*Soundstage:*

Rating: Great

The 15G's soundstage is quite impressive, with a great amount of width. Music sounds open and spacious, with a few instances where it sounded out of my head. The 15G's soundstage shines especially when gaming in virtual surround. I have yet to be let down by Ultrasone's S-Logic for gaming applications, and the streak continues with the 15G. Time and time again, I was fooled into believing a sound was coming from my room and not the headphones. The imaging on the 15G was great, with tight, focused audio cues, which were easy to poinpoint in the virtual space. The depth isn't the most impressive for a dynamic headphone, but I didn't have much, if any problem with it's presentation.



*Positioning:*

Rating: Great

The 15G is easily one of the best sub-$100 headphones for positional cues. The positional cues were sharp, tight, and focused, though some can make a valid argument that sounds can be more distant than the typical dynamic headphone without S-Logic. I place more importance towards the direction of sound placement more than the distance (as my eyes can take care of the rest, once I face the direction of sounds), so I don't have too much of a problem dominating shooter games with the 15G's positional prowess.



*Clarity:*

Rating: Good

Clarity in the 15G is considerably improved compared to the HS-15, which was quite warm and veiled in comparison. The 15G is still on the warm side, but nowhere near as muffled or stuffy. The bass tilt on the 15G takes it's seat as the dominant aspect of it's sound, though the mids and treble are generally on equal footing with each other, and unhampered by the bass in general. As stated previously, most of the shortcomings in clarity can be blamed on S-logic pushing things further back in the soundstage, and less because of the potent bass.



*Amping:*

Recommended

The 15G needs an amp more for volume than drivability, as it has a low volume output with general sources by design. I don't personally find the 15G hard to drive, though some sources can limit the 15G to moderate volumes, where I prefer a moderately high level (nothing ear piercing). I recommend a portable amp, which is all that is necessary for the 15G, or at the most, an entry desktop amp for convenience, which should be more than necessary. I feel a neutral amp like the O2 should be a great match for the 15G.



*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

Potent bass, and great soundstage lead to a very fun, immersive headphone which lends it self perfectly to bass driven music, action movies, and immersive games. Don't expect it to highlight vocals, acoustic music, or any real audiophile-specific necessities where detail retrieval is of utmost importance.

Those looking for a sub-$100 headphone, should really look out for the 15G in particular. I recommend the 15G for those who want a general purpose headphone, where fun is favored over analyzing details.



*Comparisons*:

The only headphones I can truly compare it to in terms of uses and general sound signature are the Beyerdynamic DT990, HiFiMAN HE-400, and Philips Fidelio X1, all which are better overall, but considerably more expensive, heavier, and less comfortable overall.

The Sennheiser PX100-II is a solid music alternative to the HFI-15G in the sub-$100 price range if you prefer a warm, mid rich, and smooth, non-fatiguing headphone. The PX100-II is undoubtedly the more music-friendly headphone with a more stable sound signature, but it's quite clampy and less comfortable (considerably more external ear fatigue), and less gamer friendly, with a more closed in soundstage. _Note: No review is planned for the PX100-II in the near future._



*Final Impressions:*

The HFI-15G won't win any awards based on it's aesthetics or sheer technical ability, but it's fun, bassy signature, and great synergy with virtual surround puts it high on my recommendations for fun uses like immersive gaming, bass driven music, and action movies, all at an affordable price. It's just a great headphone for those who want to have fun, and don't want to deal with the typical bass looseness and muffled sound of headphones that normally cater towards the fun side at an entry-level price.



*Likes, Dislikes, and Unfiltered Thoughts:*

What I like: 

The bass
Fun factor
Immersion
Comfort
Soundstage
Built quality
Price

What I don't like: 

Thin midrange
The cable is too short
Could stand have a better transition from bass to mids.
Upper mids could stand to be less recessed relative to the treble spike at 10khz
I hate how finicky Ultrasones are with ear placement.
Pads aren't removable

Unfiltered Thoughts:

I really like this headphone. Quite an improvement over the HS-15 which was just too warm and veiled for my taste. My right ear gets a bit sore after awhile, which is annoying as I love to wear these up until that point. I think that's a personal issue, though. While it isn't perfect, the sound signature lends itself well to my kind of music, and types of movies and games I play. There isn't much to complain about, to be honest.





Spoiler: Fun: 8/10 (Great)



Fun is the 15G's forte, with great bass impact, deep immersion, and plenty of potential for wow inducing moments in movies and games.





Spoiler: Competitive: 7/10 (Good)



While the 15G is leaning towards fun, I had little issue dominating with it in competitive games. The well controlled bass, sharp audio cues, and solid soundstage for gaming makes the 15G quite a competent headphone, though those looking for competitive oriented headphones first, should look elsewhere.





Spoiler: Comfort: 8/10 (Great)



Regardless of whether any other headphone is on ear or over ear, there simply isn't much out there that is as comfortable as the HFI-15G, though if you're particularly sensitive to on ears, they may induce some soreness after prolonged periods.





Spoiler: Overall: 7.25/10 (Good)



Affordable, sturdy, very comfortable, super light, and fun. That is really all that needs to be said.


----------



## AUserName501

mad lust envy said:


> The only potential problem with the Magni is the fact that it is quite high in gain, and you may not have much play in the volume control, where the Magni may get loud quite early with the X1.
> 
> Stillhart, I haven't been active much lately, but I have seen you being very, very helpful here. You have my thanks. I'll add you to the contributor list on the guide.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The problem with the O2 and Magni is that when the pot is low you'll get a channel imbalance. This problem is far worse on the Magni which only has high gain.
  
 Fiio E17 is a really good choice because you can use the optical input with your sound card. However, there is the Creative E3 coming out soon which supports bluetooth (NFC), virtual surround sound (SBX Pro Studio), acts as a USB dac and amplifier that can apparently power high impedance headphones. Link here.
  
 You can also plug your mic and headphones into it while using bluetooth so it effectively makes your setup wireless. I've asked Creative support for more detailed specifications about the DAC and amplifier which they have no forwarded to the relevant department. Hopefully, I will get a response.
  
 There is also the Sound Blaster E1 which is out now.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Anyone want to buy watch dogs on the ps4 for $30 plus shipping? If not guess I'll be trading it in for the same price, tomorrow.


 

 That's why I pre ordered watch dogs, completed it in a week and traded it in when it was still at a high price pre owned..never even played the multiplayer..i will keep the last of us remastered but not play the multiplayer..even though i hate it at times nothing compares to bf4's multiplayer gameplay!


----------



## MC LeBron 23

@Mad Lust Envy...great thread. I have a few questions I hope you can help me with. I think I might of asked you this a couple years ago in Xbox live chat.

Been looking for an immersive headphone for single player games. I already own ad700s for competitive. I narrowed it down to 3 headphones from your reviews. DT 770 pro 80, ultrasone pro 900, and denon d7000. Out of those 3 which would you go for? Will the astro mix amp power the pro 80s enough?

If not, can an additional amp be hooked up to the astro mix amp?

Last question. Just bought the Siberia v2 as a backup headset to my ad700s (I needed closed to). They're pretty decent, with an average mic. Comfort it great. Have you user them yet or only the v1? Are there any velour replacement earpads for the v2? The pleathee can get hot. Was going to return them but ended up keeping them for $80.

If you had to choose one closed headphone headset for competitive gaming, what would you choose? Thanks.

Mike


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think you should kill two birds with one stone and get the Shure 1540s. I trust Change and what he says of them, and I believe if I wanted a closed headphone as well as a fun headphone, it would definitely be the 1540, no questions about it.


----------



## imac2much

I first want to thank MLE for this incredible guide, along with the several other contributors such as Change, Stillhart, etc.  This is my first post on the head-fi forums, but I've been reading through people's opinions and impressions for the last week.  I feel like I've entered an entirely new world because I never really thought too much about the sound quality of my music and games before.
  
 So here's my situation: I'm currently in the US but will be moving to China in 3 weeks.  I've been wanting to get a good pair of headphones for my move since I will be there for over two years and I think it will be hard to get good headphones there.  Currently, the only headphone/set I have are the Sony Pulse Elites which I originally bought because they are wireless.  Does anyone have any experience with those and can compare their comfort and sound quality to other closed headsets?
  
 I purchased a used Astro A50 and Xonar U3 from ebay for $150 before I discovered this thread.  It hasn't arrived yet so I can't compare it to the Sony Elite, but suffice to say now I am wondering if I should have just waited.  I'm looking for a fun, immersive headphone that I can play on PC (since I won't be bringing any consoles with me), which is why I thought the U3 with its Dolby Headphone was a good idea, but that new Creative E3 is starting to look even better (when does it come out?).  I don't play any competitive gaming at all so I don't need a mic, and while I've only had experienced with closed headphones, I'm thinking that open might be good too since I have my first baby on the way and I don't want to shut myself out from the world 
  
 Currently, I'm looking at the Fidelio X1 but I can't seem to find a good deal for them.  I've also perused the Soundmagic Hp100, AKG K545 (for its portability and high recommendations regarding soundstage for a closed headphone), and even potentially the K712 (though I think these are out of my price range).  I think I'd need to get a separate DAC/Amp for the K712 though (which is why I'm not considering the Beyerdynamic DK990's), and right now all I have is the Xonar U3 for my laptop.  Maybe the Creative E3 would be a viable option?
  
 Anyway, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on my situation.  If the best bet is still just to get the X1 and return/resell the A50's, I can do that.  Or if I should wait for the Creative E3 (as long as it comes out within the next week or so) and choose a headphone with higher impedance, I'm open for that too.  My budget is around $300, preferably on Amazon since I have a bunch of credit there, but I can potentially go a bit higher if there's a huge leap in sound quality and comfort.
  
 Thanks so much!


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> The only potential problem with the Magni is the fact that it is quite high in gain, and you may not have much play in the volume control, where the Magni may get loud quite early with the X1.
> 
> *Stillhart, I haven't been active much lately, but I have seen you being very, very helpful here. You have my thanks. I'll add you to the contributor list on the guide.
> 
> ...


 
 Wow, thanks dude!  That's kind of you and I appreciate it.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  


ausername501 said:


> The problem with the O2 and Magni is that when the pot is low you'll get a channel imbalance. This problem is far worse on the Magni which only has high gain.
> 
> Fiio E17 is a really good choice because you can use the optical input with your sound card. However, there is the Creative E3 coming out soon which supports bluetooth (NFC), virtual surround sound (SBX Pro Studio), acts as a USB dac and amplifier that can apparently power high impedance headphones. Link here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Fair point both of you about the O2 and Magni.  A portable might be a better choice in that case.  I've forgotten already, @RolandOfEld, what are you using this with?  Just a Mixamp and console?  PC?  Portable?  A little of everything?
  
 Regarding the Creative E3, it doesn't look like it'll work with a console directly.  Seems similar to a crossbreed of the E17 and the SBZ/SB Omni with a little bluetooth thrown in.  I doubt you'll be able to use it wirelessly with something like a Mixamp.  I'm gonna keep my eye on that device, thanks for the link.


----------



## Murder Mike

imac2much said:


> Anyway, I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on my situation.  If the best bet is still just to get the X1 and return/resell the A50's, I can do that.  Or if I should wait for the Creative E3 (as long as it comes out within the next week or so) and choose a headphone with higher impedance, I'm open for that too.  My budget is around $300, preferably on Amazon since I have a bunch of credit there, but I can potentially go a bit higher if there's a huge leap in sound quality and comfort.


 
  
 First off welcome to Head-fi. Are you gaming on PC only or PC and consoles? If it's just PC, you should stick to your current plan of getting the X1 or one of the Soundmagic options, or possibly the Q701 and then adding an external card like the Soundblaster Omni or Recon3D USB. The Recon3D will also work with consoles if you wanted to go that route.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> First off welcome to Head-fi. Are you gaming on PC only or PC and consoles? If it's just PC, you should stick to your current plan of getting the X1 or one of the Soundmagic options, or possibly the Q701 and then adding an external card like the Soundblaster Omni or Recon3D USB. The Recon3D will also work with consoles if you wanted to go that route.


 
 I agree with this for the most part.  The X1 and the HP200 are probably your best bets.  I haven't heard the HP200 yet, but the I think my HP100 is an amazing value and Change swears by the HP200.  I'd probably pick the HP200 over the X1 simply because I like the HP100 better than I liked my X1 and it's cheaper.
  
 Q701 (and K712) will want an amp so I would stay away from it if you don't plan on getting one.
  
 I don't think a Recon or Omni will give you too much improvement over the U3, but I haven't heard the U3 so I dunno.  I wouldn't worry too much about the new E3... I suspect it's more marketing than value; I get suspicious of anything that claims to have so many bells and whistles in a small portable inexpensive package.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

mad lust envy said:


> I think you should kill two birds with one stone and get the Shure 1540s. I trust Change and what he says of them, and I believe if I wanted a closed headphone as well as a fun headphone, it would definitely be the 1540, no questions about it.




Who are you talking about that says the 1540 is good? 

Forgot how much $$$ the d7000 was. Considering the dt770s are half the price of the d7000 and pro 900, would it still be a good buy for my needs? Can the mix amp handle the 80ohm?


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> I don't think a Recon or Omni will give you too much improvement over the U3, but I haven't heard the U3 so I dunno.  I wouldn't worry too much about the new E3... I suspect it's more marketing than value; I get suspicious of anything that claims to have so many bells and whistles in a small portable inexpensive package.


 
  
 The Recon would offer compatibility with consoles. The Omni would have a bit better amp, volume pot, and easier output options (IMO) for the difference of about $20.


----------



## imac2much

Thank you all so much for your recommendations!  I actually wasn't even looking at the HP200 originally, so I'm glad you brought that to my attention.  I'm checking out all the reviews for it now, and if it is better than X1, I'd probably go with that option since, as you said, it IS cheaper   I also like that it comes with a case (I don't think the X1 does).
  
 While overseas, my gaming will be 100% PC only.  I had a PS3 and PS4 in the States but I sold them in preparation for my move.  Hopefully the U3 will be good enough, though I am willing to look into the E17 if it's that much better (Soundblaster E3 sounds promising too since it has both virtual surround, DAC and amp, but I don't know how it would compare to U3 + E17 combo).
  
 Lastly, the one caveat I have regarding the HP200 after reading some posts is the fact it uses pleather cups.  My Sony pulse elite also has pleather and it makes my ears hot after about 45 minutes of use. I get this strange feeling of joy just taking them OFF because my ears can breathe again.  That's one reason I was looking forward to the velour + memory foam of the X1.  Is this a problem with HP200's or HP100's pleather cups?  I'm guessing my pulse elites probably just use extremely cheap pleather perhaps.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apparently, the SRH1540 pads fit it, IIRC. Those are amazing, and if they don't negatively affect the sound, those are the ones to get.


----------



## RolandOfEld

just a PC

 Soundcard is a Soundblaster Recon3D


stillhart said:


> Wow, thanks dude!  That's kind of you and I appreciate it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> The Recon would offer compatibility with consoles. The Omni would have a bit better amp, volume pot, and easier output options (IMO) for the difference of about $20.


 
  
 I have the Recon and the Omni and I like them both.  The Omni does sound better, though, if you don't need console compatibility.  Sounds like he doesn't (quoted below).  I'd easily recommend the Omni -- grab one off AWD and save a few bucks and get SBX instead of DH.  :-D
  


imac2much said:


> Thank you all so much for your recommendations!  I actually wasn't even looking at the HP200 originally, so I'm glad you brought that to my attention.  I'm checking out all the reviews for it now, and if it is better than X1, I'd probably go with that option since, as you said, it IS cheaper   I also like that it comes with a case (I don't think the X1 does).
> 
> While overseas, my gaming will be 100% PC only.  I had a PS3 and PS4 in the States but I sold them in preparation for my move.  Hopefully the U3 will be good enough, though I am willing to look into the E17 if it's that much better (Soundblaster E3 sounds promising too since it has both virtual surround, DAC and amp, but I don't know how it would compare to U3 + E17 combo).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if the HP200 is "better" than the X1, just that I prefer the sound signature of the HP100 (different can!) to the X1.  Regarding the ear cups, I honestly found the fuzzy, memory foam pads on the X1 to be kind of warm.  I've never had a heat issue with my HP100, even though they're closed AND pleather.  @Change is Good can maybe speak more to the heat on the HP200 from first-hand experience, or you could ask in the HP200 thread (since he's the only person in this thread who has one).
  
 Regarding your sound card choice, if you don't NEED the portability of the E3, the Omni does everything else and it's already out.  You wouldn't need the E17 with the Omni.  You wouldn't actually need another amp for the X1 or the HP200 (though, like I said, the X1 will sound slightly better with a little more amping).
  


rolandofeld said:


> just a PC
> 
> Soundcard is a Soundblaster Recon3D


 
 I'd definitely recommend some kind of amping to tighten up the bass, as I found it to be a big help with my Recon and the X1.  It doesn't sound like you need a portable solution, but as others have pointed out, some of the cheaper desktop solutions won't actually pair too well with the X1.  So maybe look into an E12 or C5?


----------



## conquerator2

I've finally gotten to the comparison videos in the first post of this guide... Late I know but these are my 2 cents
  
From the video I've gathered the following:
  
CMSS3D: 
- has a higher pitch than the others, a possible deal breaker for me personally...
 - the most accurate and least "processed" but also the least involving and most analytical IMO 
  
THX:
- edges out DH slightly in imaging
- rear cues a bit harder to identify
- the sound produced feels less processed than DH, and slightly clearer
  
DH:
- has a more enveloping sound than the rest, presumably due to the slight "echo effect" applied to certain voices and sounds, this is either a good thing [to me it makes the vocals sound more real and natural and the overall presentation is more pleasing] but I see it might be a bit distracting as well, to some
- overall good imaging, if slightly inaccurate and/or harder to identify due to the echo at times [a slight trade-off]

Razer Surround 
  
 - oh god...
- sucks wee wees...

I personally use DH and am happy with it, but it would seem I'd be happy with the THX as well if I used that.

I do like the "echo" that Dolby Headphone does to the voices and other sounds... they sound more airy and real to ME that way, more enveloping... Personal preference though.

All but Razer imagined very well!
  
 I am not sure how good a representation the video is though, DH sounds a bit better to me when gaming. Might be due to YT encoding?
 Personally, it is a toss up between THX and DH, CMSS not rated due to the high pitch [otherwise good] and Razer just a blurry meh.

Tested with reference K612 Pros﻿
  
I guess the next step for me is getting the TAC w/ Headphone X once available.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> I have the Recon and the Omni and I like them both.  The Omni does sound better, though, if you don't need console compatibility.  Sounds like he doesn't (quoted below).  I'd easily recommend the Omni -- grab one off AWD and save a few bucks and get SBX instead of DH.  :-D
> 
> 
> I don't know if the HP200 is "better" than the X1, just that I prefer the sound signature of the HP100 (different can!) to the X1.  Regarding the ear cups, I honestly found the fuzzy, memory foam pads on the X1 to be kind of warm.  I've never had a heat issue with my HP100, even though they're closed AND pleather.  @Change is Good can maybe speak more to the heat on the HP200 from first-hand experience, or you could ask in the HP200 thread (since he's the only person in this thread who has one).
> ...


 
  
 Thank you so much for your advice!
 Do you (and others) prefer SBX over DH?  Since I'll be getting DH via the Xonar U3, is it worth it to ditch it for the Omni for SBX?  Does the Omni have that much better DAC/Amp than the U3?  I want to make sure that if I get an Omni, I won't have to also purchase a Fiio E17 or something, because if that's the case I can just do that with my existing U3.
  
 Thanks also to MLE for pointing me to the Shure replacement pads.  So now I'm looking at HP200 + Shure pads for $240 combined, or X1 for ~$267.  Price is similar now due to the replacement pads.  I believe from reading some previous posts that Change is Good also uses the replacement pads on his HP200.  Hmm the decision is getting trickier haha.
  
 I just realized that Soundmagic is a Chinese company and is available on Amazon China.... so I guess if I don't make my purchase decision in time before I leave, I can buy it there as well (for slightly higher prices).


----------



## Change is Good

You can't go wrong with the HP200. Open, detailed, neutral sounding, and very comfy with the Shure 1540 pads


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Thank you so much for your advice!
> Do you (and others) prefer SBX over DH?  Since I'll be getting DH via the Xonar U3, is it worth it to ditch it for the Omni for SBX?  Does the Omni have that much better DAC/Amp than the U3?  I want to make sure that if I get an Omni, I won't have to also purchase a Fiio E17 or something, because if that's the case I can just do that with my existing U3.
> 
> Thanks also to MLE for pointing me to the Shure replacement pads.  So now I'm looking at HP200 + Shure pads for $240 combined, or X1 for ~$267.  Price is similar now due to the replacement pads.  I believe from reading some previous posts that Change is Good also uses the replacement pads on his HP200.  Hmm the decision is getting trickier haha.
> ...


 
  
 Regarding SBX vs DH, that's a very personal choice.  I personally prefer THX/SBX (same thing, btw).  You should watch the comparison videos on the first page of this thread and check DH vs THX and decide for yourself.
  
 Regarding the U3, I've never heard it so I can't say.  I will say the DAC in the Omni was indistinguishable from the Schiit Modi to me so I returned my Modi.  Considering how highly people rate the Modi around here, I'd say that's pretty solid.
  
 Regarding the HP200, keep an eye on Amazon used section.  Micca Distributor sometimes sells refurbs for dirt cheap.  If you can get one of those, it's a no-brainer.  Mine was $135 shipped ($200 normally).


----------



## Hapster

V-Moda Boom Mic works with Focal Spirit classic, which means it must work with FSP as well. (Same build)


----------



## Change is Good

mc lebron 23 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy...great thread. I have a few questions I hope you can help me with. I think I might of asked you this a couple years ago in Xbox live chat.
> 
> Been looking for an immersive headphone for single player games. I already own ad700s for competitive. I narrowed it down to 3 headphones from your reviews. DT 770 pro 80, ultrasone pro 900, and denon d7000. Out of those 3 which would you go for? Will the astro mix amp power the pro 80s enough?
> 
> ...


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> I think you should kill two birds with one stone and get the Shure 1540s. I trust Change and what he says of them, and I believe if I wanted a closed headphone as well as a fun headphone, it would definitely be the 1540, no questions about it.


 
  
  


mc lebron 23 said:


> *Who are you talking about that says the 1540 is good?*
> 
> Forgot how much $$$ the d7000 was. Considering the dt770s are half the price of the d7000 and pro 900, would it still be a good buy for my needs? Can the mix amp handle the 80ohm?


 
  
 That would be me. I stand by everything I have posted about the SRH1540. It is the only closed headphone that hit all the sweet spots for me, resulting in the longest period of time of which I have owned one.


----------



## AUserName501

Anyone know of a way to input multi-channel audio from a console to your PC (Windows)?
  
 Idea is to output surround sound from console into a PC and then use virtual surround sound software on PC. This way I can avoid a Mixamp and avoid Dolby Headphone.
  
 Can this be done through a capture card and virtual audio cables?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> ...resulting in the longest period of time of which I have owned one.


 
  
 Quoted for understatement.


----------



## DJDREEM

Never got the hype for the 1540. The soundstage is very narrow although the thin sound gives it an airy appearance. I prefer my 770 for closed back gaming, much larger stage and accuracy. I'm hoping to do some pad rolling on my 1540 to thicken the sound a bit, but I want to try get the stage larger.


----------



## Change is Good

As like in the 1540 thread, you are in the minority with how you feel about them. To each his own...


----------



## DJDREEM

Quite a few People at the office have the same opinion. We literally test headphones all day and I'd say about 75% were disappointed. 

Has anyone hooked up the TH600? Guessing they sound identical to the D7000.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'd guess wrong. TH600 is know to be more neutral, though with a stronger mid bass emphasis over the sub bass, which is the opposite of the D7000, which is known for it's whopping sub bass.

Change, I may take up your offer for the 1540 loan soonish, if you'll allow me. I'll send you the 15G on the way back if you wanna try something new and cheapish.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> Regarding SBX vs DH, that's a very personal choice.  I personally prefer THX/SBX (same thing, btw).  You should watch the comparison videos on the first page of this thread and check DH vs THX and decide for yourself.
> 
> Regarding the U3, I've never heard it so I can't say.  I will say the DAC in the Omni was indistinguishable from the Schiit Modi to me so I returned my Modi.  Considering how highly people rate the Modi around here, I'd say that's pretty solid.
> 
> Regarding the HP200, keep an eye on Amazon used section.  Micca Distributor sometimes sells refurbs for dirt cheap.  If you can get one of those, it's a no-brainer.  Mine was $135 shipped ($200 normally).


 
 Thank you once again for your help, Stillhart.
 It sounds like you really enjoy the HP100's.  If I were to change my mind and go for a closed headphone, is the HP100 the best choice at the sub-$300 price range for immersive (not competitive) PC gaming?  I've heard the DT770's are pretty good too, though perhaps the 80ohm version would need a better amp than the U3.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Change, I may take up your offer for the 1540 loan soonish, if you'll allow me. I'll send you the 15G on the way back if you wanna try something new and cheapish.


 
  
 Woot! Something exciting may be coming from MLE once again!


----------



## Change is Good

I would, but the only set of 1540 alcantara pads I have are on the HP200 (I sold the replacement pair a while back). The 1540s have alpha pads on 'em (which are a bih' to put back on after removal). 

I know how important it is for you, Mad, to review headphones in stock form. Do you still have the shure velours you bought off me? If so, I can just borrow them and place them on the HP200 while you have the 1540 and its stock alcantaras. I really can't see myself dealing with just the stock pleathers on the HP200 during that time. Plus, I'm very curious as to his they will sound with plain velours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I cut off the screen on the 1840 velours, so it probably won't be ideal whatsoever.


----------



## Change is Good

Damn damn damn lol. Oh well 

Be ready towards the end of the month. That's when I'll have the extra funds for shipping and such. I'm on a tight budget, right now...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As am I. Having two friends from Denmark staying with me for 3 weeks... basically dried up all my funds. Financial bind is being modest.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm basically j-o-b-less until the fall semester starts. I really have to to keep a lid on things until then...


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

Have any of you ever heard of Allen and Heath headphones? I had a buddy that works at Guitar Center suggest them to me when I told him I was looking to purchase the Q701s. He really seems to stand by them and he owns a pair of Xones (I think that's what they are called). I didn't see them in the guide, so just wondering if any of you have any experience with them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. Never heard of that brand.


----------



## Yethal

ausername501 said:


> Anyone know of a way to input multi-channel audio from a console to your PC (Windows)?
> 
> Idea is to output surround sound from console into a PC and then use virtual surround sound software on PC. This way I can avoid a Mixamp and avoid Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Can this be done through a capture card and virtual audio cables?


 
 Probably using a card that has optical input, then run optical out from console to optical in in audio card then set optical in as a main audio source on pc, then apply dolby headphone encoding and output through headphone jack. To be honest, just buy a mixamp or dss, less hassle.
  
 Also, I know You guys advised me to go with K612 and not hd598 but I found used hd598 for an equivalent of 70 usd so I bought them immediately.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey Change, did you listen to the Fidelio L2?


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Thank you once again for your help, Stillhart.
> It sounds like you really enjoy the HP100's.  If I were to change my mind and go for a closed headphone, is the HP100 the best choice at the sub-$300 price range for immersive (not competitive) PC gaming?  I've heard the DT770's are pretty good too, though perhaps the 80ohm version would need a better amp than the U3.


 
 I almost got the DT770 before I got the HP100.  I was told by a couple people that I wouldn't like the DT770, given my preference for the Q701's sound signature.  I'm sure they're great, they just sound different; once you have a better idea of the sound signature you like, it'll make decisions like this easier.  Unfortunately, that will only come with experience.  
  
  


yethal said:


> snip
> 
> Also, I know You guys advised me to go with K612 and not hd598 but I found used hd598 for an equivalent of 70 usd so I bought them immediately.


 
  
 Score!  I'm sure you'll be happy with them for the price.  And if not, should be easy enough to sell them for the same price you paid (or more!).


----------



## Gamer-Fi

Hey peeps,
  
 So I finally caved in and got the fidelio x1s after extensive reading. I have the mixamp pro 2013 to go with them for the ps4.
  I am thinking about buying the Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 external usb soundcard for my pc. If I used the optical out on the soundcard could I plug that into the mixamp pro?
 When im using the pc for gaming or High def movies I would prefer to use the SBX Prostudio than the Dolby Headphonewhich the astro mixamp uses. Although I would like to use the mixamp as a kind of bypass amp so I could control the volume without walking to the pc.
 Does the mixamp have an option to let the SBX sound pass through it without changing the signal to dolby headphone?
 And finally does anyone know of a better external soundcard which will allow me to game and watch movies in 5.1 on my home cinema setup, as well as in virtual surround on my fidelios?
  
 Thanks for taking the time to read this andthanks Mad Lust for making such an epic thread...


----------



## Stillhart

gamer-fi said:


> Hey peeps,
> 
> So I finally caved in and got the fidelio x1s after extensive reading. I have the mixamp pro 2013 to go with them for the ps4.
> I am thinking about buying the Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 external usb soundcard for my pc. If I used the optical out on the soundcard could I plug that into the mixamp pro?
> ...


 
 The Omni is an overall better device than the Mixamp in pretty much every category except "compatibility with gaming consoles".  The amp is more powerful and quieter, the DAC is better, it's got more outputs, etc etc.  IMO, the SBX surround is better than DH as well, though many people disagree.  
  
 My point is that there's not any reason to run your Omni through your Mixamp.  Keep in mind the Omni has its own external volume knob so you don't even need the Mixamp for that.
  
 If you do decide to run it through the Mixamp, the Omni does have the option to pass a Dolby signal out so the Mixamp can do the processing.  I don't know why you'd want to do that, though, unless you really prefer DH.
  
 Personally, I'm a big fan of the Omni if you couldn't tell.  
  
 BTW, you might check the Nameless Guide to PC Gaming (should be linked at the start of the guide here) for more info on stuff like this.


----------



## Gamer-Fi

stillhart said:


> The Omni is an overall better device than the Mixamp in pretty much every category except "compatibility with gaming consoles".  The amp is more powerful and quieter, the DAC is better, it's got more outputs, etc etc.  IMO, the SBX surround is better than DH as well, though many people disagree.
> 
> My point is that there's not any reason to run your Omni through your Mixamp.  Keep in mind the Omni has its own external volume knob so you don't even need the Mixamp for that.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the reply I am convinced. I will have the omni sitting next to my pc and I watch movies and so from the couch as my pc is hooked up to my hdtv. i am not that keen on getting up and walking to the computer to adjust the volume so i was hoping that i could use the mixamp without it changing the SBX signal, purely to adjust the volume.
 i might have to run some longer cables and  put the omni next to me instead.
 Would the omni also work with ps4 if i connected it via optical(obviously without the chat)?


----------



## Murder Mike

gamer-fi said:


> Would the omni also work with ps4 if i connected it via optical(obviously without the chat)?


 
  
 The Omni is a USB sound card. The optical is only an output.


----------



## Stillhart

gamer-fi said:


> Thanks for the reply I am convinced. I will have the omni sitting next to my pc and I watch movies and so from the couch as my pc is hooked up to my hdtv. i am not that keen on getting up and walking to the computer to adjust the volume so i was hoping that i could use the mixamp without it changing the SBX signal, purely to adjust the volume.
> i might have to run some longer cables and  put the omni next to me instead.
> Would the omni also work with ps4 if i connected it via optical(obviously without the chat)?


 
 Get something like this:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Ortek-Windows-Infrared-Receiver-Ultimate/dp/B00224ZDFY
  
 I assume you have some kind of universal remote already; throw away the one you just bought and just use the USB IR receiver to control the volume on your movies.  It's what I do on my XBMC box and it works great.
  
 I don't believe the Omni will work on your PS4 at all, but I don't know for sure one way or the other.  Maybe @Evshrug can help there.


----------



## Gamer-Fi

stillhart said:


> Get something like this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Ortek-Windows-Infrared-Receiver-Ultimate/dp/B00224ZDFY
> 
> ...


 

 looks good.. What program would i have to use to play my movies with this? I currently use media player classic with ac3 filter because it allows me to use the optical out and use my home theatre to decode.


----------



## Gamer-Fi

gamer-fi said:


> looks good.. What program would i have to use to play my movies with this? I currently use media player classic with ac3 filter because it allows me to use the optical out and use my home theatre to decode.


 

 i guess movies i can use my wireless mouse but games might be more difficult


----------



## Stillhart

gamer-fi said:


> looks good.. What program would i have to use to play my movies with this? I currently use media player classic with ac3 filter because it allows me to use the optical out and use my home theatre to decode.


 
 This works with Windows Media Center with no configuration.  I'm not sure if it will easily work with MPC.  For XBMC and such, you'll need to configure appropriately.  
  
 If you watch movies off your computer a lot, I'd recommend using XBMC to play your movies/shows and something like Media Center Master to organize your files and grab metadata.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> I almost got the DT770 before I got the HP100.  I was told by a couple people that I wouldn't like the DT770, given my preference for the Q701's sound signature.  I'm sure they're great, they just sound different; once you have a better idea of the sound signature you like, it'll make decisions like this easier.  Unfortunately, that will only come with experience.


 
 Thanks for your thoughts as always!  You're right, I have NO idea what type of sound signature I'm looking for, as this is my first foray into actual headphones.  Currently I'm still debating the x1, HP100 and HP200.  I like these three for their looks, comfort, supposedly well-balanced sound, similar cost, and the fact none would REQUIRE an amp (though I know all three would scale well with a good amp, I can possibly purchase a portable amp like an E17 at a later date).
  
 Fidelio X1: Higher price, but I kind of want to try velour pads as the pleather on my Sony Pulse Elite headphones get hot and make my ears sweaty after a while.  I've read that the x1 has really balanced sound and good bass for an open headphone.  I've also read that it has a large soundstage which is something I am looking for right now.  I don't like that it doesn't come with a carrying case (extra if I want to buy one) and the headphones don't seem to collapse well for travel.  I don't exactly need a portable headphone since I'm not really going to be using these while walking around, but I need to bring my headphones with me on the plane to China so I think I'd need a case and the more "compact" the better.
  
 Soundmagic HP100: I like the fact that it is closed in case my wife gets tired of noise leakage   I like the looks a bit more than the x1, though the glossy cups sorta turn me off... the headband looks more comfy.  Pleather kinda annoys me, and I'm not sure if I feel comfortable replacing earpads on my very first pair of real headphones; even if I do, it would cost extra and make the price comparable to the x1.  Ugh and I don't like the coiled audio cable (that isn't swappable unless I splurge on an HP200 cable).  I love the fact that these headphones fold and come with a convenient carrying case.  Apparently has a great soundstage for a closed headphone (like DT770?).
  
 Soundmagic HP200: I think these are some of the sexiest headphones I've ever seen.  I really like the metal grill on the cups a lot more than the glossy ones on the HP100, and the straight cable is a big improvement as well.  I'm a bit nervous that people say the bass sounds not as "full" as the x1 or HP100, and that the soundstage isn't actually very improved from the closed HP100.  I've also read that replacing the pads make the highs retreat a bit which makes me nervous.
  
 I can't seem to make up my mind, though I don't think I'll have to make my decision immediately.  I can probably purchase some headphones later in China which will remove the requirement for a travel case anyway.  I really wish I could try some open headphones myself first to see if the sound leakage is as bad as I fear; some videos online make open headphones like the DT990's sound like miniature audio speakers, while others make the leakage sound very subtle indeed.  I also briefly considered the AKG K545's but couldn't find enough feedback on these in this thread, so I wasn't sure if they would be good for gaming.
  
 Another problem is that sometimes I wonder if I should just splurge on a good set of DAC/Amp... and maybe increase my budget... and look at the AKG K712... haha.  This is a dangerous hobby, and I haven't even really started.


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> snip
> 
> Another problem is that sometimes I wonder if I should just splurge on a good set of DAC/Amp... and maybe increase my budget... and look at the AKG K712... haha.  *This is a dangerous hobby, and I haven't even really started.*


 
 QFT!
  
 Seriously though, at this point you shouldn't be agonizing so much.  All three are great headphones and you'll probably be happy with any of them.
  
 Regarding sound leakage outward:  it's SERIOUSLY not as bad as people make it out to be.  Only in a completely silent room will you notice it enough to make much difference.  Even computer fans running will drown it out enough that you'll barely notice it.
  
 Now sound leakage INWARD can be much more of an issue.  For example, I don't like using my Q701 at work because all the background noise washes out the fine details, which is where the Q really excels.  Closed cans at work are much nicer.  Also on a plane.  If you plan on using these on-the-go at all, you'll want to go closed.
  
 It sounds like you've done all your homework and it's just a matter of pulling the trigger now.  I'd say stick with open cans if you know you won't be using them on the go.  Between the X1 and the HP200... flip a coin and enjoy your awesome headphones.


----------



## AUserName501

yethal said:


> Probably using a card that has optical input, then run optical out from console to optical in in audio card then set optical in as a main audio source on pc, then apply dolby headphone encoding and output through headphone jack. To be honest, just buy a mixamp or dss, less hassle.
> 
> Also, I know You guys advised me to go with K612 and not hd598 but I found used hd598 for an equivalent of 70 usd so I bought them immediately.


 
  
 I need optical input or HDMI input. With optical input I'm going to need a DTS decoder and no creative sound cards do this. I can get a really old Creative Audigy sound card that can decode Dolby Digital but that is a real pain.
  
 This is such a massive pain. I need a sound card with HDMI input and can decode Dolby Digital but such a thing doesn't exist. I don't know how I'm going to get a PCI sound card to work when I only have PCI-E.


----------



## Yethal

ausername501 said:


> I need optical input or HDMI input. With optical input I'm going to need a DTS decoder and no creative sound cards do this. I can get a really old Creative Audigy sound card that can decode Dolby Digital but that is a real pain.
> 
> This is such a massive pain. I need a sound card with HDMI input and can decode Dolby Digital but such a thing doesn't exist.


 
 Why DTS all of a sudden? Set Your console to dolby digital, asus cards decode it afaik, just find one with optical in. If You want to go hdmi route You can just use 7.1 lpcm and derive virtual surround from this (marantz receivers can do this, I don't know if there are any other devices on the market that can too)


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> E12 and E17 are portables.  E17 is a DAC too, which will work for your non-gaming (like taking with your iphone or whatever).



The E17 is indeed a DAC, with USB & optical inputs (and analogue if you just want to use it as an amplifier), but just FYI it won't natively connect to an iPhone without a lightning-to-USB adapter (and perhaps a small USB hub to "hide" the power requirements). Just saying. E17 is still a good/practical portable.




stillhart said:


> Wow, thanks dude!  That's kind of you and I appreciate it.
> 
> Regarding the Creative E3, it doesn't look like it'll work with a console directly.  Seems similar to a crossbreed of the E17 and the SBZ/SB Omni with a little bluetooth thrown in.  I doubt you'll be able to use it wirelessly with something like a Mixamp.  I'm gonna keep my eye on that device, thanks for the link.



Hey man, you've been keeping the thread alive, you deserve the recognition. I'm trying to come back too, miss talking to the regulars  Maybe I'll even finally make my surround setup YouTube playlist public 

I'll have to look into this E3 as well!



stillhart said:


> Q701 (and K712) will want an amp so I would stay away from it if you don't plan on getting one.
> 
> I don't think a Recon or Omni will give you too much improvement over the U3, but I haven't heard the U3 so I dunno.  I wouldn't worry too much about the new E3... I suspect it's more marketing than value; I get suspicious of anything that claims to have so many bells and whistles in a small portable inexpensive package.



Oh c'mon, you liked the Q701 even before you got an amp, you just liked both your headphones better when you added an amp. The Q701 just scaled up more 

I use my AKG's off the Omni most of the time when I'm on PC, I wanted an amp to clean things up when I used the Recon3D USB, but the Omni has a decently capable amp. MAKE SURE TO UPDATE ITS FIRMWARE!!!



I dunno about you, my Omni is usually set to around 20% with my Q701 and K712 while playing games, surround is perfectly adequate for gaming (though I prefer adding a tube amp for music or when I want the "ultimate" experience). The Omni has more amping power than a FiiO E17 or Mixamp. Also, the U3 has an amp that's pretty weak and dirty, relatively speaking. The main redemption for it is that it's cheap for adding surround sound processing, and it allows optical output to better sounding gear (like an E17, Bifrost, whatEv).

With the above said about the Omni and AKG's, I would like to re-recommend the AKG K612. For iMac2Much, the comfort of a full-sized open headphone (of high quality) will be a bit of a revelation, it's a tad less lively in the highs than the Q but has an overall engaging sound that evenly presents bass-mids-treble and is a bit cheaper. I borrowed Change's old one, sounded quite good for gaming off of the Omni, really great off of my Schiif Bifrost and custom SET Class-A tube amp playing FLAC music files (very near K712, if you never had a good headphone before you'd have to listen to both for a while to hear the difference). Q701 or K702 have the benefit of removable cables though.



yethal said:


> Probably using a card that has optical input, then run optical out from console to optical in in audio card then set optical in as a main audio source on pc, then apply dolby headphone encoding and output through headphone jack. To be honest, just buy a mixamp or dss, less hassle.
> 
> Also, I know You guys advised me to go with K612 and not hd598 but I found used hd598 for an equivalent of 70 usd so I bought them immediately.



Eh... The only creative soundcard I know of that can process optical surround input is the Recon3D USB, it's a licensing issue rather than hardware limitation. I would agree about just using a console surround processor (like the Recon3D USB, powered off console's USB port), much less hassle and electricity waste (DEM UTILITY BILLZ!).

On a budget, that deal you went for was a no-brainer! However... Long term, I'd still want the K612 

I did Order a pair of DT880, exited about that but I've never heard a Soundmagic yet  I personally tend to prefer lively but balanced headphones, I can only listen to v-shaped frequency responses (like HE-400, V-MODA LP) for a little while.


----------



## imac2much

evshrug said:


> I dunno about you, my Omni is usually set to around 20% with my Q701 and K712 while playing games, surround is perfectly adequate for gaming (though I prefer adding a tube amp for music or when I want the "ultimate" experience). The Omni has more amping power than a FiiO E17 or Mixamp. Also, the U3 has an amp that's pretty weak and dirty, relatively speaking. The main redemption for it is that it's cheap for adding surround sound processing, and it allows optical output to better sounding gear (like an E17, Bifrost, whatEv).
> 
> With the above said about the Omni and AKG's, I would like to re-recommend the AKG K612. For iMac2Much, the comfort of a full-sized open headphone (of high quality) will be a bit of a revelation, it's a tad less lively in the highs than the Q but has an overall engaging sound that evenly presents bass-mids-treble and is a bit cheaper. I borrowed Change's old one, sounded quite good for gaming off of the Omni, really great off of my Schiif Bifrost and custom SET Class-A tube amp playing FLAC music files (very near K712, if you never had a good headphone before you'd have to listen to both for a while to hear the difference). Q701 or K702 have the benefit of removable cables though.
> Eh... The only creative soundcard I know of that can process optical surround input is the Recon3D USB, it's a licensing issue rather than hardware limitation. I would agree about just using a console surround processor (like the Recon3D USB, powered off console's USB port), much less hassle and electricity waste (DEM UTILITY BILLZ!).


 
 Oh man, just what I need: more options! 
 In all seriousness, I really appreciate your feedback, as I want to make a good purchase that I hopefully won't need to upgrade for a while.  I had no idea that the Omni had a better amp than both E17 and U3.  Is the DAC better as well?  If the Omni can easily drive the AKG K612 and K712, I'll need to look into it a bit more.  I'm getting my U3 + Astro A50 in the mail tomorrow or Saturday (that I stupidly purchased on ebay for cheap before reading this thread), so I was thinking of getting a E17 to complement it... but if Omni can provide, amp, DAC and surround in one solution (and cheaper than E17), perhaps I should look into that after all.  Now what to do with this U3... at least the A50 will be easy to craigslist for gamers who don't know any better (like me last week) 
  
 So now I'm looking at the K612 and K712 as well.  K612 is the cheapest option of the ones I've looked at (x1, HP100, HP200, K545) and seems to have really good reviews.  From what I can tell, the 612 has good sound but flatter bass than the 712... and it also has less comfort and lack of detachable cable than its bigger brother.  How does it compare with the x1?
  
 edit: and I just saw some Sony MA-900 for a decent price on auction, so I wonder if those are good too... wow, too many options! I probably won't bite on these though as they look super fragile and they would probably snap on the way to China, haha


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Why DTS all of a sudden? Set Your console to dolby digital, asus cards decode it afaik, just find one with optical in. If You want to go hdmi route You can just use 7.1 lpcm and derive virtual surround from this (marantz receivers can do this, I don't know if there are any other devices on the market that can too)



Pretty sure Asus only accepts stereo input through Optical too. Pretty much the only way I can think of is an Elgato capture card or something, but basically using a PC to do console stuff is really impractical.

Receivers with surround encoding (some older Denon's and Kenwoods had DH too, Yamaha's silent cinema is nearly as good as DH) would allow DTS or DDL surround decoding, but that's not really a big deal unless you have an XBO or Wii U


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> Oh man, just what I need: more options!
> ***Hey, I think we forgot to say the traditional welcome: "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!"***
> 
> I had no idea that the Omni had a better amp than both E17 and U3.  Is the DAC better as well?
> ...



***I haven't heard the X1 to be honest... K712 has more of a clean midbass hump than the K612, but the K612 has deeper sub-bass extension. Honestly closer than their price difference belies, the main benefit of the K712 is the detachable cables, deeper Earpads of memory foam (nice but not crucial), more premium headband leather (no comfort difference IMO), and a little detail refinement. For first nice headphone I'd just get the K612, you can upgrade it with an amp and new pads later if you want. If you need closed headphones... Well, I don't end up needing them, so I defer to others' opinions. Any headphone will end up uncomfortable during the flight between USA & China, lol.

Btw, the AKG pads are super easy to change, you just twist them off like a bottle cap. I also put up a live practical demo comparing headphone leak on my YouTube channel, also user Evshrug***


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Oh man, just what I need: more options!
> In all seriousness, I really appreciate your feedback, as I want to make a good purchase that I hopefully won't need to upgrade for a while.  I had no idea that the Omni had a better amp than both E17 and U3.  Is the DAC better as well?  If the Omni can easily drive the AKG K612 and K712, I'll need to look into it a bit more.  I'm getting my U3 + Astro A50 in the mail tomorrow or Saturday (that I stupidly purchased on ebay for cheap before reading this thread), so I was thinking of getting a E17 to complement it... but if Omni can provide, amp, DAC and surround in one solution (and cheaper than E17), perhaps I should look into that after all.  Now what to do with this U3... at least the A50 will be easy to craigslist for gamers who don't know any better (like me last week)
> 
> So now I'm looking at the K612 and K712 as well.  K612 is the cheapest option of the ones I've looked at (x1, HP100, HP200, K545) and seems to have really good reviews.  From what I can tell, the 612 has good sound but flatter bass than the 712... and it also has less comfort and lack of detachable cable than its bigger brother.  How does it compare with the x1?
> ...


 
 I'd say your logic on the Omni is spot on.  It's a great solution for PC gaming.  The DAC is (in my experience) as good as the Schiit Modi, which costs $100 on its own and is very highly regarded on Head-fi.
  
 And Evs is right, I was perfectly happy with my Q701 and just the Omni.  It's just that it sounded even better once I got an amp too.  Think of it (any of those AKG's) as a great-sounding headphone with room to grow when you're ready to spend more.
  
 I've never heard the MA-900, but everyone raves about them.  They're supposed to be super comfortable.  If you can get one cheaper than a K612, that's pretty tempting.
  


evshrug said:


> ***I haven't heard the X1 to be honest... K712 has more of a clean midbass hump than the K612, but the K612 has deeper sub-bass extension. Honestly closer than their price difference belies, the main benefit of the K712 is the detachable cables, deeper Earpads of memory foam (nice but not crucial), more premium headband leather (no comfort difference IMO), and a little detail refinement. For first nice headphone I'd just get the K612, you can upgrade it with an amp and new pads later if you want. If you need closed headphones... Well, I don't end up needing them, so I defer to others' opinions. Any headphone will end up uncomfortable during the flight between USA & China, lol.
> 
> Btw, the AKG pads are super easy to change, you just twist them off like a bottle cap. I also put up a live practical demo comparing headphone leak on my YouTube channel, also user Evshrug***


 
  
 Evs has been at this way longer than I have.  He was the one helping me when I was making my first purchasing decision.  I defer to his judgement if he thinks the K612 is the way to go.  Lots of people love it in this thread and it's sort of become the "budget" champion on here.  I'm really going to have to listen to one some day... 
  
 Anyways, based on what I know of the K612 vs the Q701 and my experience with the X1, I'd say the K612 is probably a better bang for the buck.  I'm using transitive property here:  People say the K612 is on par with the Q701 sound (some people like it better) and I thought the Q701 sounded better than the X1.  So yeah, there you go.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Why DTS all of a sudden? Set Your console to dolby digital, asus cards decode it afaik, just find one with optical in. If You want to go hdmi route You can just use 7.1 lpcm and derive virtual surround from this (marantz receivers can do this, I don't know if there are any other devices on the market that can too)


 
  
*No sound cards decode Dolby Digital or DTS on their S/PDIF inputs, to my knowledge. Certainly not any PCIe ones. If they get anything other than PCM on those inputs, all you'll hear is silence.*
  
 Believe me, people have tried, even resorting to AC3Filter and other utilities. It either doesn't work or has such a hideous amount of latency that it's unsuitable for gaming. Right now, you just can't replace a Mixamp sort of device using a PC.
  
 It's probably that neither Dolby nor DTS would license such a feature, probably out of fear of piracy or something else stupid.
  
 Now, if audio capture and recording wasn't necessary, an AVR with Dolby Headphone would suffice, but that's a lot of bulk and weight for something that's only going to be used with headphones. Really, I'd prefer just a cleaner Mixamp sort of device with an HDMI input in addition to the usual S/PDIF.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> *No sound cards decode Dolby Digital or DTS on their S/PDIF inputs, to my knowledge. Certainly not any PCIe ones. If they get anything other than PCM on those inputs, all you'll hear is silence.*
> 
> Believe me, people have tried, even resorting to AC3Filter and other utilities. It either doesn't work or has such a hideous amount of latency that it's unsuitable for gaming. Right now, you just can't replace a Mixamp sort of device using a PC.
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry, I was wrong, thanks for correcting my mistake


evshrug said:


> On a budget, that deal you went for was a no-brainer! However... Long term, I'd still want the K612


 
 I am little short on the money right now so anything pricier just wasn't an option, I'll probably go with AKG per everyone's suggestion but I'm not entirely sold on the AKG's headband. the 598s are so comfy, it would be tough to beat them in that category.


----------



## imac2much

evshrug said:


> ***I haven't heard the X1 to be honest... K712 has more of a clean midbass hump than the K612, but the K612 has deeper sub-bass extension. Honestly closer than their price difference belies, the main benefit of the K712 is the detachable cables, deeper Earpads of memory foam (nice but not crucial), more premium headband leather (no comfort difference IMO), and a little detail refinement. For first nice headphone I'd just get the K612, you can upgrade it with an amp and new pads later if you want. If you need closed headphones... Well, I don't end up needing them, so I defer to others' opinions. Any headphone will end up uncomfortable during the flight between USA & China, lol.*


 
 Thanks for your advice!  I did check out your video on YT and I'm amazed how little sound leakage open headphones actually give.  I'm eyeing the K612 now as well, though I think I'd need a better DAC/Amp than my U3 (so I will either get the Omni for all purpose PC usage, or the E17 so I can use that with my iPhone as well).  As for headphones, at this point I'm just looking for a good deal, so I'll probably snag any of the following if I can find a good deal : K612, HP100, HP200, or x1 
  


stillhart said:


> <snip>


 
 Thanks again, Stillhart!  I feel like I cannot go wrong with any of these headphones.  I'm a bit upset that I didn't see this thread earlier this year when I could have potentially bought the x1 new for $150 on Amazon, haha.  Either way, I am just looking for a good deal on one of these, and if no deals surface, I will probably get the k612 and an E17/Omni since it seems to give me the most "bang for my buck."


----------



## martin vegas

The akg550 have come right down in price in my local hifi shop, only a hundred quid. i think I will buy a pair and try them for gaming..if they are any good I will buy the mix amp for them!


----------



## G3org3

My akg q701 headphones came today they sound and feel great compared to my superlux 668b.
I tryed them with just the mixamp and had to turn mixamp to around 90% I without the mic on so they denffenetly need more juice! my superlux with mic was only at around 60-70%.

So what amp should I get seen quite a few around the £100 price fillo e9 schiit magni, schiit vali and the O2 are they the 4 main amps in that price range ? And what will go best with q701 I will be using the astro mixamp pro plus a blue snowball mic and only play on ps4.


----------



## Murder Mike

g3org3 said:


> My akg q701 headphones came today they sound and feel great compared to my superlux 668b.
> I tryed them with just the mixamp and had to turn mixamp to around 90% I without the mic on so they denffenetly need more juice! my superlux with mic was only at around 60-70%.
> 
> So what amp should I get seen quite a few around the £100 price fillo e9 schiit magni, schiit vali and the O2 are they the 4 main amps in that price range ? And what will go best with q701 I will be using the astro mixamp pro plus a blue snowball mic and only play on ps4.


 
  
 A lot of people like the Vali on the Q701 thread, but the Magni, or O2 would also work nicely.


----------



## G3org3

Is the O2 amp a desktop amp ? I'm not wanting a amp I need to charge


----------



## Murder Mike

g3org3 said:


> Is the O2 amp a desktop amp ? I'm not wanting a amp I need to charge


 
 Yes, it can be a desktop amp. The Q701 appreciation thread can be of better help I'm sure.


----------



## Stillhart

g3org3 said:


> My akg q701 headphones came today they sound and feel great compared to my superlux 668b.
> I tryed them with just the mixamp and had to turn mixamp to around 90% I without the mic on so they denffenetly need more juice! my superlux with mic was only at around 60-70%.
> 
> So what amp should I get seen quite a few around the £100 price fillo e9 schiit magni, schiit vali and the O2 are they the 4 main amps in that price range ? And what will go best with q701 I will be using the astro mixamp pro plus a blue snowball mic and only play on ps4.


 
 The Vali is the most recommended of those in the Q701 thread.  However, if you're going to be using it exclusively or gaming, you might not actually want that additional warmth from the tubes.  The O2 is also very highly regarded in that thread and might be a better choice for you.


----------



## G3org3

Yea my setup is for gaming only


----------



## G3org3

This is the only O2 I can find in the uk and it's the portable one http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/headphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-headphone-amplifier/

Does any1 have a link to a website that sells them in the uk ?


----------



## Stillhart

g3org3 said:


> This is the only O2 I can find in the uk and it's the portable one http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/headphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Does any1 have a link to a website that sells them in the uk ?


 
 It can be used as a portable or a desktop.  Something like the Fiio E12 can't be used while it's charging so it's a portable only.  The O2 can just be plugged in with a wall wart and used like a normal desktop amp OR it can run off a battery.


----------



## AUserName501

g3org3 said:


> This is the only O2 I can find in the uk and it's the portable one http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/headphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Does any1 have a link to a website that sells them in the uk ?


 
  
 You'll find some on ebay as well.


----------



## AUserName501

yethal said:


> Why DTS all of a sudden? Set Your console to dolby digital, asus cards decode it afaik, just find one with optical in. If You want to go hdmi route You can just use 7.1 lpcm and derive virtual surround from this (marantz receivers can do this, I don't know if there are any other devices on the market that can too)


 
  
 Most sound cards can ENCODE to Dolby Digital but there are no new cards that can DECODE Dolby Digital input that I am aware of. The reason is copyright because they thought that the only reason you would want to decode DD is for piracy. There are some old Creative cards (PCI) that can decode DD but I'm not aware of any new cards. If I decode DD then I can run the PCM audio through whatever virtual surround sound I want.


----------



## martin vegas

g3org3 said:


> This is the only O2 I can find in the uk and it's the portable one http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/headphone-amplifiers/ehp-o2-portable-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Does any1 have a link to a website that sells them in the uk ?


 
 Back order: shipped expected to resume 23/07/14 if you can't get one you could get a fiio e9 from amazon uk!


----------



## AUserName501

martin vegas said:


> Back order: shipped expected to resume 23/07/14 if you can't get one you could get a fiio e9 from amazon uk!


 

 E9 has an output impedance more than 10x higher than the Magni or O2.


----------



## Stillhart

ausername501 said:


> E9 has an output impedance more than 10x higher than the Magni or O2.


 
 It's also warm, from what I hear, which is kinda the reason I didn't recommend the Vali for gaming.


----------



## G3org3

Will the e9 work I seen MLE say the e9 does nothing for the q701 ? I'm not sure what to get everyone says different things


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> *snip*
> ...or the E17 so I can use that with my iPhone as well).



Just pointing out again, the E17 does work as an amp for the iPhone, but you can't directly connect the iPhone to use the E17's DAC without extra accessories (a camera kit adapter, and a USB hub, there's a how-to thread on Head-Fi but it's not a function officially supported by Apple or FiiO).

Hope I didn't info overload on you. If you do end up getting a SoundMagic, tell is your impressions! It can be a fun community here.



ausername501 said:


> E9 has an output impedance more than 10x higher than the Magni or O2.



True, but that's only because the E09k or older E9 have (just) 10 ohms output impedance. I don't know about new models, but all the iPod classics, for example, have a 10 ohm output impedance too. The E9 is powerful enough, kind of a warm-ish amp and a bit less transparent than other options, whether it enhances what is great about the Q701 (or evens out weaknesses) is up to personal taste and what you're looking for. I would recommend a tube amp like the Schiit Vali, but that's because I like the sense of soundstage and texture/impact I hear in tubes (that aren't too warm).

AKG headphones, like G3org3's, have a linear impedance response, so output impedance has a negligible effect.

Sennheisers (like the one NwAvGuy tested and then assumed all other headphones were like) aren't linear, and the bass gets boosted (sometimes to the point where it bloats) and so does high treble, kinda like a rough EQ setting. Some people like that kind of sound (that's what Bose's "better sound through research" lead them to aim their house sound to be like, warm and a bit boomy), but in any case it's not the death knell that NwAvGuy makes it out to be and the myth that grew up around that assumption. Most people who say "you need 8x impedance dampening" can't even say WHAT HAPPENS and why... but don't take my word for it, try doing some research into it


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Just pointing out again, the E17 does work as an amp for the iPhone, but you can't directly connect the iPhone to use the E17's DAC without extra accessories (a camera kit adapter, and a USB hub, there's a how-to thread on Head-Fi but it's not a function officially supported by Apple or FiiO).
> 
> Hope I didn't info overload on you. If you do end up getting a SoundMagic, tell is your impressions! It can be a fun community here.
> True, but that's only because the E09k or older E9 have (just) 10 ohms output impedance. I don't know about new models, but all the iPod classics, for example, have a 10 ohm output impedance too. The E9 is powerful enough, kind of a warm-ish amp and a bit less transparent than other options, whether it enhances what is great about the Q701 (or evens out weaknesses) is up to personal taste and what you're looking for. I would recommend a tube amp like the Schiit Vali, but that's because I like the sense of soundstage and texture/impact I hear in tubes (that aren't too warm).
> ...


 

 That helps explains why AKGs and Senns tend to react so differently to amplification, seems there is a big misconception about amplification among many people. I noticed AKGs and other headphones I have tried just don't seem to care much about output impedance. I've read that with the K601/K612 for example that the best output impedance is actually 120 ohms for them.
  
 I prefer tubes for the same reasons, there is a roundness and texture to the sound, as well as better impact(on the good tubes/amps), and just a better sense of soundstage(more 3D) and imaging. They just sound more organic and real to me. Can't wait to when I get the Project Ember in a couple months.


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> That helps explains why AKGs and Senns tend to react so differently to amplification, seems there is a big misconception about amplification among many people. I noticed AKGs and other headphones I have tried just don't seem to care much about output impedance. I've read that with the K601/K612 for example that the best output impedance is actually 120 ohms for them.
> ***The best way to know is to try it yourself
> 120 ohms was kind of a historical thing, I have research notes about it that I can't fully recall off the top of my head. Many old receivers had 120 ohm output impedance (or more), still sound fine. The science can help cut through snake oil and myths, but you don't want to get TOO obsessed because it'll get in the way of enjoying the music or the awesome crack of the Battle Rifle in the Halo 2 Anniversary videos.
> 
> ...



*OOOH, if I didn't have my current amp I'd be all over that Amber! As it is, my next upgrade would be a Woo Audio fireflies or something, but at present I don't have an upgrade bug 

DT880's should arrive tomorrow... Probably will be more of a sidegrade to broaden my perspective and collection.*


----------



## Change is Good

For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125

http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


>





> ***The best way to know is to try it yourself
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *OOOH, if I didn't have my current amp I'd be all over that Amber! As it is, my next upgrade would be a Woo Audio fireflies or something, but at present I don't have an upgrade bug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is true, it's why it's best to hold off on coming to conclusions before listening to something. Preferably multiple examples and a lot of time and experience. I came to my conclusions on tubes vs SS for example after listening to numerous amps both tube, hybrid, and SS from low-end to top of the line. I personally stopped caring much about specs and focused on how it sounded and if I could hear any differences or not. True it does get in the way of enjoyment. I think focusing too much on specs on a heavily subjective hobby can cause problems, especially if they get too emotionally involved with the specifications
  
 True, I do like looking at graphs to get a general idea, I need to look at the impedance response graphs more. I found distortion and frequency graphs to be unreliable at times for me. That is true.
  
 Yeah, I am thinking about the Valhalla 2 as well, but I need to wait on impressions on the amp, but considering how much difference tubes can make it can be hard. The Project Ember will likely be the amp I'll get. I realized on my EF2A the first tubes I bought for the amp, the RTC were the best tubes I have, the stocks are meh, and the other two are good but too headphone dependent and lack the impact, power, body, and tonal balance the RTCs have. Regarding the WA7, I would personally go for the WA6 over it as I find it sounds better, the WA2 or WA6SE are even better.
  
 I enjoyed the DT 880 when it was amped right, although I'm not near as familiar with it as the DT 990.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100




^sometimes low-priced items (especially if you're used to higher costs) can blow you away with their value.


Kman1211,
One of the reasons I like tube amps is how much the tube is the heart of how good the amp sounds, and you can change or upgrade the sound with the right tube. All this talk is making me wanna put my Sylvania tube back in and play some CoD4, for nostalgia (and wrecking!) sake.

PS, do you have a PS4, and beta code for Destiny?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100


 
 Oh that's a steal!


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> ^sometimes low-priced items (especially if you're used to higher costs) can blow you away with their value.
> 
> 
> Kman1211,
> ...


 

 That is true, the tube is largely much of what makes the amp sound so good, especially if the amp itself is well done, it's quite fun to tube roll, although I like to limit myself to maybe 2-4 sets of tubes per amp as it can get out of hand. This difference can be a bit more noticeable with all-tube amps.
  
 No sadly, I'm a PC gamer and don't own any current or last gen consoles.


----------



## imac2much

change is good said:


> For those interested in Soundmagic HP100 there is one in the classifieds for $125
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/725985/soundmagic-hp100


 
 Yep, I PMed him yesterday 
 Hopefully I will be able to buy these headphones from him!


----------



## Change is Good

imac2much said:


> Yep, I PMed him yesterday
> Hopefully I will be able to buy these headphones from him!




Good luck! Make sure you come back with impressions if you do get them. I can foresee you becoming a regular around here, like Stillhart... though your wallet may regret it


----------



## blackcoffeex1

g3org3 said:


> Will the e9 work I seen MLE say the e9 does nothing for the q701 ? I'm not sure what to get everyone says different things


 
  


> *Cons:*
> 
> - 10 ohm output impedance. Most headphones with less than 80ohm may have an altered sound signature due to not enough damping. Some exceptions are Planars and the Q701/K701 which aren't affected. However, you may want to look at another external amp if you plan on using low ohm headphones


 
  
  
 I believe MLE was saying that the sound signature of low impedance headphones could be altered (perhaps negatively) due to inadequate dampening, but the K701/Q701s were not affected by this issue. Not that the E9 didn't drive them adequately. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## imac2much

Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback.  I finally closed the deal with the HP100 seller today, so hopefully I will get these headphones next week!
  
 So I did some research on my Xonar U3 and the Sound Blaster Omni.  Assuming these are the external equivalents of the Xonar DG and Sound Blaster Z, they seem to both use the same CS4398 DAC.  Thus in terms of DAC, they are exactly the same.  As others have noted, the Xonar U3/DG has a horrible (or nearly nonexistent) amp with 100 ohm impedance, while Z's is 22 ohm impedance and is "rated" for headphones with up to 600 ohms.
  
 So here's my question: To me, maybe my ears are still new to good headphones, but Dolby Headphone and THX/SB surround seems like a wash.  I already have a U3 so I can either use this as just a DAC or just replace it with an Omni.
  
 With a budget of ~$100 (give or take), should I just get the Omni to use as DAC + Amp, or is there a separate Amp I can use in conjunction with my U3 DAC that would sound better than the Omni?  I'd prefer a desktop amp as I will not use this with my iphone, but I'd prefer something compact as it needs to fit in my luggage overseas (and my suitcases are jam packed as it is).
  
 Thanks so much!


----------



## G3org3

So I decided to go for the schiit vali amp for my q701s does the vali come with the cable to connect to the mixamp or do I need to buy that separate ? And if so what's the cable called ?


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> So I decided to go for the schiit vali amp for my q701s does the vali come with the cable to connect to the mixamp or do I need to buy that separate ? And if so what's the cable called ?


 
 You need 3.5mm minijack male to rca male cable like this one:
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2


----------



## G3org3

yethal said:


> You need 3.5mm minijack male to rca male cable like this one:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2




Great thanks for reply


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Good luck! Make sure you come back with impressions if you do get them. I can foresee you becoming a regular around here, like Stillhart... though your wallet may regret it


 
 How is the bass quantity of the Soundmagic HP100 compared to that of the Philips X1?


----------



## Silverwind

imac2much said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback.  I finally closed the deal with the HP100 seller today, so hopefully I will get these headphones next week!
> 
> So I did some research on my Xonar U3 and the Sound Blaster Omni.  Assuming these are the external equivalents of the Xonar DG and Sound Blaster Z, they seem to both use the same CS4398 DAC.  Thus in terms of DAC, they are exactly the same.  As others have noted, the Xonar U3/DG has a horrible (or nearly nonexistent) amp with 100 ohm impedance, while Z's is 22 ohm impedance and is "rated" for headphones with up to 600 ohms.
> 
> ...




I just picked up an OMNI about a week or two ago. The sound out of it is pretty good for the price. I like the SBX surround professing for games. Down the road I have the option to add an external amp if I want. It has analog line out and also optical output. Before this I was using onboard audio so it was an easy purchase. I might even pick one up to keep at work.


----------



## Evshrug

^yeah, an easy-to-hear upgrade from my Realtek motherboard audio.

Kinda bummed about how complicated things get with Playstation and the DSS2, it's cheap but lots of wires, and my streamers complain my mic is too quiet. The Recon3D USB was awesome, because it basically took over mic duties like a USB mic (so no wires to my PS4 controller), I could use my cheap lapel mic as my mic, and the Recon3D USB had mic gain settings so it's easier for others to hear me over the game sound. I think Mic gain is what I miss most, if the BoomPro is too quiet with my current setup then I'll have to check out this new Creative E-something processor or get another Recon3D USB.


----------



## Evshrug

Aw, the creative E3 isn't made for game consoles...


----------



## SoAmusing777

Question, is it bad that I'm using the amp and my receiver when connected to my PS3? So, my headphones go into the port on the front of the amp, then in the back I have an RCA to 3.5mm adapter in the input section, which then runs to the front headphone port on the receiver (so I can utilize dolby headphone) then that is connected to the PS3 via HDMI. Something I did notice even on the low gain setting was that if I turned the volume knob past 2/3 oclock I start hearing this sound. I can always turn the volume louder on the receiver to keep this from happening, but then I feel like I'm using my receiver as the main amp in that case. It varies from a volume level of 66 to 75 on my receiver.


----------



## Yethal

Anybody knows what exactly can PS4 output via USB if "All audio" option is selected? The bit depth and sampling rate, maybe they'll add an option to output multichannel via usb, could be nice. I keep spamming this question on this thread, but nobody seems to know and it's kinda bothering me.


----------



## Stillhart

dakanao said:


> How is the bass quantity of the Soundmagic HP100 compared to that of the Philips X1?


 
 Quantity?  Significantly less.  The X1 is pretty bass-heavy, to the point where it muddies up the mids if you're not amping it properly.  People call it "fun" because the bass is over-emphasized but in a fun way.  The HP100 has a lot more of a "natural" bass:  it's there but it's not in your face by any means.  It has fantastic sub-bass though, so you'll really feel it on stuff like electronic music that extends way down low.  It's a really nice balance IMO.  Sounds good with just about anything.
  


imac2much said:


> Hey guys, I'd like to get some feedback.  I finally closed the deal with the HP100 seller today, so hopefully I will get these headphones next week!
> 
> So I did some research on my Xonar U3 and the Sound Blaster Omni.  Assuming these are the external equivalents of the Xonar DG and Sound Blaster Z, they seem to both use the same CS4398 DAC.  Thus in terms of DAC, they are exactly the same.  As others have noted, the Xonar U3/DG has a horrible (or nearly nonexistent) amp with 100 ohm impedance, while Z's is 22 ohm impedance and is "rated" for headphones with up to 600 ohms.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You don't need much amping with the HP100.  I'd suggest trying without an amp before buying anything.  If you really feel the need to amp it later, grab a cheap Chinese Fiio or something.  I use my Fiio E11 with it when I'm going portable and it's plenty. At work I use it either right out of my laptop or with a Audioengine D3.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> You don't need much amping with the HP100.  I'd suggest trying without an amp before buying anything.  If you really feel the need to amp it later, grab a cheap Chinese Fiio or something.  I use my Fiio E11 with it when I'm going portable and it's plenty. At work I use it either right out of my laptop or with a Audioengine D3.


 
 Thanks Stillhart.  In that case I will probably sell my U3 and get an Omni to use as an all-in-one for now.  I might look into getting an O2 or E12 later though, as I do hope to get a good open ended headphone later


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Anybody knows what exactly can PS4 output via USB if "All audio" option is selected? The bit depth and sampling rate, maybe they'll add an option to output multichannel via usb, could be nice. I keep spamming this question on this thread, but nobody seems to know and it's kinda bothering me.




Stereo output (with chat audio) and Mic input. I don't know what sampling rate or anything, probably CD quality (which means the mastering quality of the media you're listening to will matter).

I haven't seen you "spam" the question before... can't say it's not better that way


----------



## dakanao

I compared the Skullcandy Aviator along with the Sennheiser Momentum in the store with my mobile phone.
  
 They were the best 2 sounding headphones in the store, and imo they were in the same league, they only did different things better.
  
 Sennheiser Momentum had: larger, more spacious sound, better imaging, instrument separation and detail.
  
 Skullcandy Aviator had: A LOT more clarity, and same timbre, but also a little harsh on bright recordings.


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> I compared the Skullcandy Aviator along with the Sennheiser Momentum in the store with my mobile phone.
> 
> They were the best 2 sounding headphones in the store, and imo they were in the same league, they only did different things better.
> 
> ...




Can you compare the bass quantity between the two? Which is better for Rap/Hip-Hop? How do they compare to the X1?


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Can you compare the bass quantity between the two? Which is better for Rap/Hip-Hop? How do they compare to the X1?


 
 Aviator had more bass, but less tight though. Aviator had around the same amount of bass as the X1. 
  
 Aviator is the better one for rap/hiphop.
  
 Well, straight from my phone the Aviator sounds definitely clearer than the X1, and timbre is slightly more realistic than the X1. Aviator is slightly more harsh though because of the treble.
  
 X1 has better soundstage, imaging and separation than both the Momentums and Aviators from my phone. Momentums got slightly more detail than the X1 from my phone.


----------



## martin vegas

dakanao said:


> Aviator had more bass, but less tight though. Aviator had around the same amount of bass as the X1.
> 
> Aviator is the better one for rap/hiphop.
> 
> ...


 
 Sennheiser momentums have come down in price now but have they got the bass that you are looking for?


----------



## dakanao

martin vegas said:


> Sennheiser momentums have come down in price now but have they got the bass that you are looking for?


 
 Not really. I like a bit more bass quantity and clarity.
  
 If the Aviators had the same separation, imaging and detail, as the Momentums, and they would be VERY slightly less bright, than that would be a very good headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> Not really. I like a bit more bass quantity and clarity.
> 
> If the Aviators had the same separation, imaging and detail, as the Momentums, and they would be VERY slightly less bright, than that would be a very good headphone.



Designing a headphone with bass elevated starts to become looser and less clear after about 7 dB. You can tighten the impact a bit with a dedicated amp, but the decay will still be longer. Some people just like that sound though, it's a matter of taste.

If you really wanna know what a large bass-weighted frequency response sounds like, use an EQ to reduce everything else and crank up the volume. From where my brain interprets the average volume level from, bass like that just is too much, I seek even bass/mids (maybe a bit of treble lift) but good extension into subbass and great "holographic"-level detail, THAT excites me


----------



## Change is Good

I was joking when I asked that...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I was joking when I asked that...


 
  
 Hmm, I actually read it as a serious question as well. You do try out new cans quite often.


----------



## dakanao

But seriously though, I think the Aviator is HIGHLY underrated. They sound clearly better than the Shure SRH-840 and Sennheiser HD558 for example.


----------



## Change is Good

I have my reasons for sarcasticly asking those questions... and the Aviators and Momentums aren't why


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I have my reasons for sarcasticly asking those questions... and the Aviators and Momentums aren't why


 
  
 Because you're a sarcastic smartass? That's why I do things like that.  I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Aviator is so bad, it wont even reach my ears properly... lol, it doesnt extend down enough for my head shape/size.


----------



## pack21

MLE what's your opinion about Q701 vs MA900, which one is better for fps? Or other better recommendation. No basshead. 

Thx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I prefer the MA900 for it's more all rounder nature, while for sound whoring, the Q701 is better, just hate the headband, so much. I would suggest getting a newer K702 over the Q701 instead. Which then you can also buy some K712 pads, for a more all rounder, warmer sound for the K702 (giving you options for more soundwhoring with standard pads or more fun and warmth with K712 pads, which will be better than the MA900.)


----------



## Evshrug

For me, the MA900 was the more easy-going headphone. Both are good, but I liked the excitement and extension of the Q701.

Giving these DT880 a run... Pretty neat, great with surround cues


----------



## Evshrug

Btw, I'm running these 600 ohm DT880's off the DSS alone... Have to have the volume almost all the way up, but these things are DAMN transparent! Surround is very 3D


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the MA900 for it's more all rounder nature, while for sound whoring, the Q701 is better, just hate the headband, so much. *I would suggest getting a newer K702* over the Q701 instead. Which then you can also buy some K712 pads, for a more all rounder, warmer sound for the K702 (giving you options for more soundwhoring with standard pads or more fun and warmth with K712 pads, which will be better than the MA900.)


 
  
 I may just end up getting myself a pair down the road. Since I've sold the K612, I've been feeling the sense that I'm missing a reference, neutral headphone with linear bass and a large soundstage. The HP200 with the alcantaras is a bit warmish and the soundstage is not as wide as the AKGs. I would have just kept K612, but it was just _too_ similar to my HP200. The K702/Q701 is distinct enough to justify owning one... down the road that is.


----------



## G3org3

Get the q701 if it's for sound whoring on cod I play cod competitively on mlg gbs and the q701s are on another level to anything I've ever used.


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> Get the q701 if it's for sound whoring on cod I play cod competitively on mlg gbs and the q701s are on another level to anything I've ever used.


 
 Do You have a youtube or a twitch channel? I'm curious how great cans affect the playstyle


----------



## G3org3

Yes my YouTube channel is called MrEleven1181 
I was actually doing a mlg gb the other day and I was last alive on s&d and all my teammates were shouting we can hear him behind you. I said shut up he's in front on me to the left and as soon as I ran round the corner guess who was right me lol 

Also I'm only using the q701 with the mixamp but my schiit vali just came as I'm writing this reply so they should sound even better now.


----------



## martin vegas

g3org3 said:


> Yes my YouTube channel is called MrEleven1181
> I was actually doing a mlg gb the other day and I was last alive on s&d and all my teammates were shouting we can hear him behind you. I said shut up he's in front on me to the left and as soon as I ran round the corner guess who was right me lol
> 
> Also I'm only using the q701 with the mixamp but my schiit vali just came as I'm writing this reply so they should sound even better now.


 

 Why aren't you playing bf4? I watched your youtube vids..are you from Glasgow?


----------



## G3org3

Do I max the volume on the mixamp then control the volume with the vali amp ? Just set it up.


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> Do I max the volume on the mixamp then control the volume with the vali amp ? Just set it up.


 
 Yep, I do the exact same thing with magni


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Yep, I do the exact same thing with magni




Be careful with that...certain DSPs will distort at max volumes as pointed out by MLE and me.
My TB RF transmitter has to be below 80% total volume otherwise it'll cause distortion.
I don't mind as there's more volume play on my powerful amps that way but YMMV.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Be careful with that...certain DSPs will distort at max volumes as pointed out by MLE and me.
> My TB RF transmitter has to be below 80% total volume otherwise it'll cause distortion.
> I don't mind as there's more volume play on my powerful amps that way but YMMV.


 
 I didn't notice any distortion while playing with mixamp's volume knob but I'll keep that in mind


----------



## G3org3

My mixamps at about 90% and the vali about 70% sounds really nice and loud now just the way I like it lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

g3org3 said:


> Get the q701 if it's for sound whoring on cod I play cod competitively on mlg gbs and the q701s are on another level to anything I've ever used.




Headphones help, but seriously, you could be competetive as hell with even a $15 KSC75. Don't put so much stock on what a headphone can do. There is a point where good is good enough.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Headphones help, but seriously, you could be competetive as hell with even a $15 KSC75. Don't put so much stock on what a headphone can do. There is a point where good is good enough.


 
 Bad example, KSC75 are great for gaming


----------



## Stillhart

g3org3 said:


> Do I max the volume on the mixamp then control the volume with the vali amp ? Just set it up.


 
  
 My Mixamp 5.8 is hissy as hell when I turn it all the way up.  I would definitely not do it that way.  Try the Mixamp at 50-80% and see how it goes.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

I picked up a Xonar U3 a few weeks ago, and positioning isn't too good with my IEMs. Is it because of my IEMs, or the games? I've played a few games on it that didn't have a surround sound option, which isn't surprising on UT3, but apparently even a newer game like Sniper Elite II doesn't? Or am I missing it in the options/settings? I know I can't expect a shot from 10m away to sound like it's from 10m away, but I'm totally not getting any hint at what direction it came from. At best I'd get the SFX for a bullet that just whizzed past my face from right to left (or vice versa). Doesn't seem to ahve any effect with Crysis either.

 Also tried it on Total War, and despite how immersive it was on an HT system,* there was totally no hint of any surround effects.


_*not necessarily all that accurate, but the experience of immersive gameply by hearing the thunder of hooves that are vaguely coming from behind then "turning around" (actually zooming out) in time to see a general leading heavy cavalry behind me makes losing miserably worth it_


----------



## conquerator2

protegemaniac said:


> I picked up a Xonar U3 a few weeks ago, and positioning isn't too good with my IEMs. Is it because of my IEMs, or the games? I've played a few games on it that didn't have a surround sound option, which isn't surprising on UT3, but apparently even a newer game like Sniper Elite II doesn't? Or am I missing it in the options/settings? I know I can't expect a shot from 10m away to sound like it's from 10m away, but I'm totally not getting any hint at what direction it came from. At best I'd get the SFX for a bullet that just whizzed past my face from right to left (or vice versa). Doesn't seem to ahve any effect with Crysis either.
> 
> Also tried it on Total War, and despite how immersive it was on an HT system,* there was totally no hint of any surround effects.
> 
> ...


 
 You sure you have it set in the U3 control panel to 8ch and dolby headphone [mode 2]?


----------



## G3org3

mad lust envy said:


> Headphones help, but seriously, you could be competetive as hell with even a $15 KSC75. Don't put so much stock on what a headphone can do. There is a point where good is good enough.




Well the last headset I bought was an £250 astros a50 and they were complete garbage , took them back for a refund not long after I bought them,


----------



## Knel

Hy all this is my first post but could you guys recomend a good headphone for soundwhoreing on cod ghosts ps4
I will only use them for ps4 and ghosts 
Btw im from england and my budget is around 100 pounds 
At the moment i am using px5 transmitter with razor carcharias i think there called 
But the px5 transmitter broke so i need to upgrade to mixamp plus new headphones
Hope i made sence cheers all


----------



## Stillhart

knel said:


> Hy all this is my first post but could you guys recomend a good headphone for soundwhoreing on cod ghosts ps4
> I will only use them for ps4 and ghosts
> Btw im from england and my budget is around 100 pounds
> At the moment i am using px5 transmitter with razor carcharias i think there called
> ...


 
 There are a lot of great options in the guide.  I have no idea how much 100 quid will get you, as I'm American.  Why don't you look through the guide and then find a few options and then ask which would be best?  Probably easier for everyone that way...


----------



## Yethal

knel said:


> Hy all this is my first post but could you guys recomend a good headphone for soundwhoreing on cod ghosts ps4
> I will only use them for ps4 and ghosts
> Btw im from england and my budget is around 100 pounds
> At the moment i am using px5 transmitter with razor carcharias i think there called
> ...


 
 First page of this post


----------



## Murder Mike

knel said:


> Hy all this is my first post but could you guys recomend a good headphone for soundwhoreing on cod ghosts ps4
> I will only use them for ps4 and ghosts
> Btw im from england and my budget is around 100 pounds
> At the moment i am using px5 transmitter with razor carcharias i think there called
> ...


 
 £100 isn't much of a budget to work with when you need a Mixamp as well. Maybe keep an eye on the For Sale section and see if you can pick up something for a reasonable price. The other option is to find an ebay seller who is local or will ship internationally. After you get that squared away, you could grab some Samson SR850s. Alternatively you could save up for a used pair of HD558s or AD700s.  I don't really know what else there is out there for that low of a budget.


----------



## theragekage

So I have the q701s, fiio e9, and mixamp 5.8. I rigged a mic on my q701s and it works great for my xbox 360. However, I want to hook it up to my ps3 and use my mic for the destiny beta. Apparently astro no longer carries to mixamp 5.8 ps3 chat cable. Has anyone tried just a regular 3.5 mm to USB cable for this? I just want to make sure it works before ordering one online (couldn't find any at radio shack). I am also wondering if maybe the rocksmith guitar cable could work for this since it is a 1/4 jack to USB.


----------



## Knel

Sorry guys my budget is 100 pounds thats just for the headphones on there own 
sorry i forgot to mention ive read through 100 of the se posts 
but neafly all of the good ones you guys recomend are around 170 to 300 pounds eg q701 ad700x k702 annies and a good few more but wanted somthing a bit cheaper


----------



## GoldenboyXD

Personally i would recommend and tried: Superlux HD668B, Samson SR850 for competitive gameplay and cheap price. The Superlux HD681 EVO is somewhat bassy for my taste and it is best for Movies and Fun gaming.


----------



## Stillhart

knel said:


> Sorry guys my budget is 100 pounds thats just for the headphones on there own
> sorry i forgot to mention ive read through 100 of the se posts
> but neafly all of the good ones you guys recomend are around 170 to 300 pounds eg q701 ad700x k702 annies and a good few more but wanted somthing a bit cheaper


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/724849/sennheiser-hd598  110 pounds, according to Google.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/722003/dt-770-pro-32-ohms-ltd-ed  90 pounds
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/723812/soundmagic-hp100 A little out of your price range, but I love mine.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/723610/beyerdynamic-dt-880-250ohm  So many good options...
  
 Etc...


----------



## martin vegas

knel said:


> Sorry guys my budget is 100 pounds thats just for the headphones on there own
> sorry i forgot to mention ive read through 100 of the se posts
> but neafly all of the good ones you guys recomend are around 170 to 300 pounds eg q701 ad700x k702 annies and a good few more but wanted somthing a bit cheaper


 

 You can get akg550 for a hundred quid from richer sounds,i will buy a pair on Thursday and tell you what they sound like for games.. I have heard they are supposed to be good for games and movies..i will just use them for late night bbc i player watching on my ps4!


----------



## PurpleAngel

knel said:


> Sorry guys my budget is 100 pounds that's just for the headphones on there own
> sorry i forgot to mention I've read through 100 of the se posts
> but nearly all of the good ones you guys recommend are around 170 to 300 pounds eg q701 ad700x k702 Annies and a good few more but wanted something a bit cheaper


 
  
 Maybe some used Sennheiser HD558s or used AKG K612 Pro?


----------



## pack21

mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the MA900 for it's more all rounder nature, while for sound whoring, the Q701 is better, just hate the headband, so much. I would suggest getting a newer K702 over the Q701 instead. Which then you can also buy some K712 pads, for a more all rounder, warmer sound for the K702 (giving you options for more soundwhoring with standard pads or more fun and warmth with K712 pads, which will be better than the MA900.)


 
  
 Thanks for suggestion. 
  
  
  
 I may consider going to a headphone 600 $ if:  MA-900 are amazing to me, if i could spend so much money would have to feel that the upgrade followed the extra cost. 
  
 I want something like MA900 but even better if there is, even more WOW factor like i have so many times while playing and watching movies with MA900. So Good!  They take and force me to further raise the bar because i didn't count with such awesome experience on TV\Gaming room without having  my wife  forcing me to turn off home-cinema system while she wants sleep.
  
  

 The new headfone that i'm looking for; must have a big soundstage (on movies i like hearing the bird distant chirping outside the head, the train coming from afar approaching, shoes steps on asphalt must transmit the distance of movement, summarizing want to feel 3D real environment as possible.
  
 The tone of voices must be natural and transparent, but without the veil of sub bass on timbre.
 The sound of shots, also has to be real, with strong impact, not a boomy shot, i think being associated with a good treble. 
 Must have good detail, great location and separation of layers. 
  
  

 I want a great headphone to play BF4 and view movies, music is not what i want of them. 
  
  

 From what I've read K701 \ 702 and maybe Q701 can be in that direction, but if there is even better i appreciate to know and consider.


----------



## Knel

Cheers all for the reply very helpful and cheers to stilart for the links you posted
I have an old dss still works do you think it would be as good as a mixamp sound quality 
If so i might be able to just buy a dearer headset for the dss
Cheers all for the help


----------



## Knel

Sorry i forgot o mention i am writing this message on ps4 and on ps4 i cant see the reviews from mle on first page
 Cheers again


----------



## martin vegas

knel said:


> Cheers all for the reply very helpful and cheers to stilart for the links you posted
> I have an old dss still works do you think it would be as good as a mixamp sound quality
> If so i might be able to just buy a dearer headset for the dss
> Cheers all for the help


 

 Get the audio technica ATH A900X if you have a bit more money to spend!


----------



## Hapster

Any idea how the Mad Dog Pro are for gaming?


----------



## AxelCloris

hapster said:


> Any idea how the Mad Dog Pro are for gaming?


 
  
 Both the Mad Dogs and the Alpha Dogs are enjoyable for gaming. Since the MDP splits the differences between the two it's a safe bet that they'll do well.


----------



## Knel

I was just looking at these tow headset sony mdr-1r or sennheiser hd335 have any you guys tried any these headset for gaming for cod ghosts


----------



## Evshrug

knel said:


> Cheers all for the reply very helpful and cheers to stilart for the links you posted
> I have an old dss still works do you think it would be as good as a mixamp sound quality
> If so i might be able to just buy a dearer headset for the dss
> Cheers all for the help



The DSS has better audio quality. Cleaner and a bit more powerful. The only thing it lacks is chat control.


----------



## Knel

Cheers evshrug


----------



## G3org3

Get the superlux hd668b headphones mines only cost £35 absolute bargin. Plus there great for sound whoring I was more than happy with them but I just had to try the q701s after reading all the great reviews.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

conquerator2 said:


> You sure you have it set in the U3 control panel to 8ch and dolby headphone [mode 2]?


 
  
 Yes - 8ch sound, Dolby Headphone 2 or 3, and if the game has it (like Total War), I tried surround sound settings instead of 2ch headphone. No dice.
  
 Is because I'm using an IEM? Also tried a Creative SB headset that I got from my cousin (after he rage quit, threw it, broke the mic, and lost the soundcard it came with), but no improvement there either. I'll pick up BF4 at some point but I want to finish our coop campaigns on Fall/Rise of the Samurai first; not to mention every damn update on Rome II renders the mods we have obsolete (that revert to previous version option has Steam crashing on our PCs). In any case, TW worked great with HT receivers when I tried them on those. so that's one point against the problem being the games I'm using.


----------



## conquerator2

protegemaniac said:


> Yes - 8ch sound, Dolby Headphone 2 or 3, and if the game has it (like Total War), I tried surround sound settings instead of 2ch headphone. No dice.
> 
> Is because I'm using an IEM? Also tried a Creative SB headset that I got from my cousin (after he rage quit, threw it, broke the mic, and lost the soundcard it came with), but no improvement there either. I'll pick up BF4 at some point but I want to finish our coop campaigns on Fall/Rise of the Samurai first; not to mention every damn update on Rome II renders the mods we have obsolete (that revert to previous version option has Steam crashing on our PCs). In any case, TW worked great with HT receivers when I tried them on those. so that's one point against the problem being the games I'm using.




Maybe you're just having no luck with the games then...
I dunno I tried it with a few on PC ( I am mostly a console guy) and it worked to various degrees. Either Pro Logic II where the game won't allow for 5.1 or Dolby Headphone when it does...
I'll be sure to test again, eventually


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The games themselves make a huge impact. Some games are absolute trash in terms of positional audio. Try a relatively cheap game like Red Faction Armageddon and see if the positional audio of the buuldings crumbling around you still sound bad. If it does, something is wrong with your settings, or youre just not compatible with Dolby Headphone. It's not impossible.


----------



## Knel

Cheers all again for your help i might just rry the suplux hd668b as there eeally cheap worth a try 
But do you guys think my razor carchharias might be better than the superlux hd668b as i heard they was nearly as good as a pc360 
But with not as mutch sound stage
I actually really like them but i had them for about 3 yrs time for somthing better


----------



## G3org3

I've never used the razor headset, before the superlux I used astros a50 and turtle beach x ray and the superlux was a clear upgrade from those.


----------



## benbenkr

Hmmm, interesting:
  


> Audio has gotten a significant improvement, with more options to customize your setup. For audiophiles playing with high-end stereo headsets, you’ll be able to change the azimuth (to tune alignment and timing for better synchronicity across the channels). You can also decide whether your center channel plays dialog, dialog and sound effects, or nothing at all.


 
  
The Last of Us: Remastered on GameInformer
  
 Previously on the PS3, TLoU was one of the better games with good positional audio mix. But the more important thing is, if this kind of options are introduced into more games on the PS4, that would actually be a good change.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

@Mad Lust Envy...do you know how the jvx sz2000 would be for immersiveness? Its suppose to be bass king, but I'm wondering how big its soundstage is, especially paired with Dolby headphone.


----------



## Murder Mike

mc lebron 23 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy...do you know how the jvx sz2000 would be for immersiveness? Its suppose to be bass king, but I'm wondering how big its soundstage is, especially paired with Dolby headphone.


 
  
 If it's not on the list it's safe to say he hasn't tried them. Try asking in that headphone's thread.


----------



## lenroot77

benbenkr said:


> Hmmm, interesting:
> 
> 
> The Last of Us: Remastered on GameInformer
> ...




Awesome...haven't played this yet. Can't wait!


----------



## AxelCloris

Oops, I accidentally HE-400. So far these sound pretty good. Looking forward to trying them with some games later. I can see why people say they sound more like speakers than headphones. MLE liked them, so I doubt I'll have any complaints.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

murder mike said:


> If it's not on the list it's safe to say he hasn't tried them. Try asking in that headphone's thread.




I asked twice in that thread...no answer.


----------



## grumpy1471

benbenkr said:


> Hmmm, interesting:
> 
> 
> The Last of Us: Remastered on GameInformer
> ...




I also haven't had the chance to play TLOU as I only had an Xbox 360 last gen. Went with the PS4 this gen and I will be buying the Remastered version for sure. Seems like the perfect game for positional audio and I can't wait to be immersed in the game with my setup.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

conquerator2 said:


> Maybe you're just having no luck with the games then...
> I dunno I tried it with a few on PC ( I am mostly a console guy) and it worked to various degrees. Either Pro Logic II where the game won't allow for 5.1 or Dolby Headphone when it does...
> I'll be sure to test again, eventually


 
  
 Looks like I'll have to try other games then, but I'll wait for BF4 prices to drop a bit - enough time to finish some active coop campaigns on Total War.


----------



## EraserXIV

@Mad Lust Envy

Did you ever get around to trying DT880 pads on the MA900? Just got these in and agree they are very comfortable, but could see it being out of this world with even more comfortable pads. Thanks.


----------



## benbenkr

grumpy1471 said:


> I also haven't had the chance to play TLOU as I only had an Xbox 360 last gen. Went with the PS4 this gen and I will be buying the Remastered version for sure. Seems like the perfect game for positional audio and I can't wait to be immersed in the game with my setup.


 
  
 On the PS3, it was one of the few single-player games (well there's MP in TLoU, but it isn't very position dependant) that really benefits people  with good audio setup.
  
 Just being able to hear the clickers or runners/human enemies patroling in many areas of the game has saved my hide more times than I can remember. This is on the hardest difficulty too (Survivor), where a single spot from an enemy is most of the time game over. Not only that, the good positional cues help to improve immersiveness, because you're always hearing someting just around the corner.
  
 So yeah, if the claims are true that the Remastered version would be even better, that's very good news.


----------



## Fegefeuer

What portable DAC/AMPs are you guys using? I'm thinking about getting the JDS LABs C5D, preferrably something stronger as it's supposed to be too weak for headphones like the HD 650.


----------



## G3org3

My gaming setup is now complete https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EkCGwJvoDv4


----------



## conquerator2

benbenkr said:


> On the PS3, it was one of the few single-player games (well there's MP in TLoU, but it isn't very position dependant) that really benefits people  with good audio setup.
> 
> Just being able to hear the clickers or runners/human enemies patroling in many areas of the game has saved my hide more times than I can remember. This is on the hardest difficulty too (Survivor), where a single spot from an enemy is most of the time game over. Not only that, the good positional cues help to improve immersiveness, because you're always hearing someting just around the corner.
> 
> So yeah, if the claims are true that the Remastered version would be even better, that's very good news.




+1. It's an amazing experience with my HE-560. Don't forget to switch from standard to maximum range in the options. I keep the central speaker size to small there. The only mode that works with DSPs is Dolby Digital 5.1 which is converted to DH.
But this really is one of the best sound experience games out there. Hard to imagine it being aby better...

As for difficulty, try grounded mode... Yeah... Just reached winter and it is not easy.


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> My gaming setup is now complete https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EkCGwJvoDv4


 
 Oh god, dude why did You shoot it in portrait mode?


----------



## G3org3

yethal said:


> Oh god, dude why did You shoot it in portrait mode?




Lol I just press record and point it at my setup. I didn't even know you could change it.


----------



## Yethal

g3org3 said:


> Lol I just press record and point it at my setup. I didn't even know you could change it.


 
 Setup is very nice but the damn video is unwatchable, I guess You need to rotate the ipad 90 degrees.


----------



## G3org3

Lol I didn't realise that's all you did. Thanks for the tip


----------



## Orion1991

can someone recommend and all rounder headphone for me, I plan to use it for gaming mainly but I still want my music to sound good, I listen to all sorts of music btw and I watch movies from time to time.
  
 -prefer it to be comfy (not leather) for long hours of use, and my budget is 200$
 -hearing small details in games like footsteps is very important to me (CS:GO) 
  
 I have my eyes set on these so far:
 1-HD558 (open but I heard it lacks bass)
 2-Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO (closed but I heard the soundstage on these is pretty good)
 3-Beyerdynamic DT-990-Pro-250 (heard this one is pretty bad) 
 4-Beyerdynamic DT-880 Pro (semi-open)
  
 if you guys have any other suggestions or something in my budget that would be great.


----------



## theragekage

I'm assuming your music listening is just going to be done at home and you aren't looking for a portable headphone, right?


----------



## Fegefeuer

My little sister is getting her PS4 in a few weeks so I decided to gift her a Sony MA-900 with the advice to be extra careful and my Mixamp setup. Looking for replacement pads now and what I google is part number 429674101. Prices for them are floating from 20€ to 40€. Quite strange. 
  
 Anyway, those MA-900 should tickle all boxes for her. The remaining question will be the microphone solution.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> My little sister is getting her PS4 in a few weeks so I decided to gift her a Sony MA-900 with the advice to be extra careful and my Mixamp setup. Looking for replacement pads now and what I google is part number 429674101. Prices for them are floating from 20€ to 40€. Quite strange.
> 
> Anyway, those MA-900 should tickle all boxes for her. The remaining question will be the microphone solution.


 
 She'll definitely like the MA900s. They're great.
 As for the mic, the Blue Snowball is an amazing  entry level desktop condenser mic. I use it for Skype and other things and it's just amazing.
 Then there're mics that can be attached to the MAs or desktop classic dynamic mics but can't really help you there.
 Lots of useful info elsewhere though [google and Amazon are great or maybe round here someone else can help :]]


----------



## Orion1991

theragekage said:


> I'm assuming your music listening is just going to be done at home and you aren't looking for a portable headphone, right?


 
 right


----------



## theragekage

Do you happen to have an amp? If so I would recommend the Q701s. They can easily be made a bit more bassy (or fun) with either a change of pads or removing a small piece of tape that covers the bass port. They fit within your budget (on amazon new or used) but would definite be outside of it if you don't have a headphone amp. A lot of ppl seem to like the 880s, but I'm not sure if they require any extra juice or not.


----------



## theragekage

orion1991 said:


> right


 Also, if you are open to buying a used set of cans you can likely get the fidelio X1 for just under 200. That would likely fill all of your must haves. Judging by the review for MLE you wouldn't need an amp.


----------



## Stillhart

orion1991 said:


> can someone recommend and all rounder headphone for me, I plan to use it for gaming mainly but I still want my music to sound good, I listen to all sorts of music btw and I watch movies from time to time.
> 
> -prefer it to be comfy (not leather) for long hours of use, and my budget is 200$
> -hearing small details in games like footsteps is very important to me (CS:GO)
> ...


 
 FOTM right now seems to be the AKG K612 Pro.  I haven't personally heard them, but everyone who has says they're amazing for the price.


----------



## Orion1991

theragekage said:


> Do you happen to have an amp? If so I would recommend the Q701s. They can easily be made a bit more bassy (or fun) with either a change of pads or removing a small piece of tape that covers the bass port. They fit within your budget (on amazon new or used) but would definite be outside of it if you don't have a headphone amp. A lot of ppl seem to like the 880s, but I'm not sure if they require any extra juice or not.


 
 I dont have an amp but I plan to get a sound card with amp
  


theragekage said:


> Also, if you are open to buying a used set of cans you can likely get the fidelio X1 for just under 200. That would likely fill all of your must haves. Judging by the review for MLE you wouldn't need an amp.


 
 fidelio X1 looks perfect but I am scared of the pads since they cant be replaced.
  
  


stillhart said:


> FOTM right now seems to be the AKG K612 Pro.  I haven't personally heard them, but everyone who has says they're amazing for the price.


 
 anyone know more about the AKG K612 Pro, and AKG in general I have no clue about em.


----------



## Stillhart

orion1991 said:


> anyone know more about the AKG K612 Pro, and AKG in general I have no clue about em.


 
 Not to be too much of a dick, but there's a huge guide on the first page of this thread with lots of information on the K612 and other cans.  There's also a search button where you can read up on what everyone thinks about the K612, since we've discussed it many times.  
  
 Maybe start there and if you have more specific questions let us know.


----------



## imac2much

I just received my Soundmagic HP100's!  My Soundblaster Omni is in the mail and should arrive tonight as well, but for now I am testing it merely using my laptop's Realtek DAC/Amp (laughable, I know).
  
 First impressions: I like the build overall!  The HP100 is surprisingly light, and don't exert too much clamping force on my head.  Compared to my Sony Pulse Elite, I feel like I can wear them for a lot longer because my head is no longer in a vice grip.  However, the ear pads themselves are not as comfortable as my Sony Pulse Elite headset.  Both headphones use pleather cups, but the Sony's are angled and have extra padding near the back, which I prefer.  I am considering getting the SRH1540 replacement alcantara pads from Amazon but I'm not sure how to remove the pads on the HP100 without damaging them.
  
 Although the HP100's are not hard to drive (I can listen to them at a decent volume just using my onboard headphone jack), they are noticeably quieter than my Sony Pulse Elites, which is no surprise.  I'm sure they will sound a lot better once I get my Omni later today.
  
 Sound wise, even without an amp I am amazed at how "clear" my music now sounds.  However, this also comes at the cost of bass.  I can't tell if the HP100's are bass-light or bass-heavy as I don't have much to compare them to, but the Sony Pulse Elites have much more immersive bass by far.  Overall though, I much prefer the sound profile of the HP100 as I find the bass quite overpowering on my Sony's.
  
 Oh, I dislike the audio cable.  I don't get why Soundmagic chose a proprietary connector, as the coiled cable adds unnecessary weight and tends to "pull" my left headset down to the ground a bit.  It's not a dealbreaker by any means, but I'd rather have a straight cable.
  
 I haven't tested it in any games yet, but I will update later once my Omni comes in!  I'm planning to take it through the ropes with some Borderlands 2   I do hope that an amp will improve the bass.  Like I said, I don't mind that it's not as bass heavy as my previous headphones, but the lack of bass is noticeable in some songs like Massive Attack - Angel.


----------



## Murder Mike

imac2much said:


> I do hope that an amp will improve the bass.  Like I said, I don't mind that it's not as bass heavy as my previous headphones, but the lack of bass is noticeable in some songs like Massive Attack - Angel.


 
  
 The Sonys probably had bloated bass. I would guess that the HP100 has more accurate bass, which is far more preferable for me and others. The Omni could tighten up the bass a bit and maybe even add a little ommph. If you can drive them louder, that will certainly help.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> The Sonys probably had bloated bass. I would guess that the HP100 has more accurate bass, which is far more preferable for me and others. The Omni could tighten up the bass a bit and maybe even add a little ommph. If you can drive them louder, that will certainly help.


 
 This is correct.  The HP100 has pretty neutral bass for the most part, but it actually has a sub-bass hump.  Once you start hearing that, you're going to love them I think.  Certain music will really bring it out, like electronic.  Go listen to something off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" if you want to hear the bass shine.  (And thanks to @AxelCloris for the recommendation on that awesome album!)
  
 Agreed that the cable sucks.  I tried finding a few replacements and nothing quite fit right.  I know @Change is Good basially hacked up his Boompro to work with it.  Eventually I just got used to it... *shrug*
  
 If you try the pads, let me know what you think.  I've heard good things, but haven't felt the need to upgrade mine just yet.  Change might be able to give you some tips on getting the stock pads off.


----------



## martin vegas

The two worst things to look out for in headphones or a headset is a harsh treble and no or bloated bass!


----------



## dakanao

Has anyone heard the Soundmagic HP150 yet?
  
 http://onlineaudioshop.nl/koptelefoons/soundmagic/hp150-pre-order-(vanaf-juli).html


----------



## PurpleAngel

orion1991 said:


> can someone recommend and all rounder headphone for me, I plan to use it for gaming mainly but I still want my music to sound good, I listen to all sorts of music btw and I watch movies from time to time.
> 
> -prefer it to be comfy (not leather) for long hours of use, and my budget is 200$
> -hearing small details in games like footsteps is very important to me (CS:GO)
> ...


 
  
 The HD558 have just enough bass to be called decent bass, also the 50-Ohm HD558s can be used with or without a headphone amplifier.
 Amazon will sell used HD558s for under $100.
  
 The Beyer DT770/DT880/DT990 need to be used with an amplifier.
 The DT990s are full bass and full treble, which slightly over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear
 DT880s are more well balanced, treble is a little on the bright side.
 I would rather use open headphones like the DT880/DT990, but the DT770s are fairly good closed headphones.
  
 Check out the Audio Technica ATH-AD900X open headphones, they are only 40-Ohms and will work plugged into anything.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Not to be too much of a dick, but...


 
  
 Oh come now Stillhart, we all love to be dicks around here; even the ladies.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Oh come now Stillhart, we all love to be dicks around here; even the ladies.


 
 Oh don't get me wrong, I am a huge a-hole.  I just want to scare away any noobies by being too mean too soon.
  
 In other news, any PS4 owners streaming Destiny right now?  I need a fix until I can get home and fire up the PS3 beta (to hold me over until Xbone beta).  @Evshrug I'm lookin at you!


----------



## Change is Good

I was just emailed my beta code, three of them, actually. Might stream later tonight...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



If any PS4 owners that didn't pre order Destiny wants a beta code just inbox me.


----------



## theragekage

stillhart said:


> In other news, any PS4 owners streaming Destiny right now?  I need a fix until I can get home and fire up the PS3 beta (to hold me over until Xbone beta).  @Evshrug
> I'm lookin at you!




I'm doing the same thing. Just fired up the ps3 beta but will be primarily playing on xbone. I really hope this game is good from a competitive side. I need something to hold me over until MCC releases in November.


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> I'm doing the same thing. Just fired up the ps3 beta but will be primarily playing on xbone. I really hope this game is good from a competitive side. I need something to hold me over until MCC releases in November.


 
 I thought MCC was going to be released "in time for the Holidays", which translates to "mid- to late-December".  Either way, I'll be grabbing it; this is my first Xbox and I've never played any Halo so it should be interesting.
  
 But yeah, there are a LOT of good games coming out between Destiny and Halo MCC.  Dragon Age, Shadows of Mordor, Sunset Overdrive, FH2, Evolve, etc etc.  I didn't even list the games that I'm not interested in (CoD, Drive Club, AC Unity, etc).  I'm sure there will be distractions if Destiny doesn't hold up!  It's going to be a good autumn for gaming!!


----------



## Change is Good

dakanao said:


> Has anyone heard the Soundmagic HP150 yet?
> 
> http://onlineaudioshop.nl/koptelefoons/soundmagic/hp150-pre-order-(vanaf-juli).html




Oh snap!


----------



## theragekage

stillhart said:


> I thought MCC was going to be released "in time for the Holidays", which translates to "mid- to late-December".  Either way, I'll be grabbing it; this is my first Xbox and I've never played any Halo so it should be interesting.
> 
> But yeah, there are a LOT of good games coming out between Destiny and Halo MCC.  Dragon Age, Shadows of Mordor, Sunset Overdrive, FH2, Evolve, etc etc.  I didn't even list the games that I'm not interested in (CoD, Drive Club, AC Unity, etc).  I'm sure there will be distractions if Destiny doesn't hold up!  It's going to be a good autumn for gaming!!


 Probably the best season for gaming I've seen in a long time. MCC is releasing on November 11th of this year. And the halo 5 beta on December 27th. I have been a big halo fan since CE so I am very excited about this. 

Also pumped for sunset overdrive and evolve.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I was just emailed my beta code, three of them, actually. Might stream later tonight...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Watched people play on the alpha stream..don't fancy it myself, but thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> Probably the best season for gaming I've seen in a long time. MCC is releasing on November 11th of this year. And the halo 5 beta on December 27th. I have been a big halo fan since CE so I am very excited about this.
> 
> Also pumped for sunset overdrive and evolve.


 
 Oh right, I knew that it was 11/11, I was confusing it with the Halo beta.  Damn, that's a lot of amazing games in a short amount of time.  I'll likely be focusing on the multiplayer games first because they tend to get less interesting when you jump in after a month or two.  The single-player stuff like Dragon Age and Sunset Overdrive can wait...


----------



## conquerator2

I am just finishing my grounded run but I won't pretend this doesn't get me hyped again, especially from Polygon...
 I just can't stop playing that game ^_^
  
 http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/16/5902983/the-last-of-us-remastered-ps4-preview-graphics
  
 Along with Infamous:SS will make for first two great games...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Oh snap!


 
  
 There's a cold wind of change blowing...


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> I am just finishing my grounded run but I won't pretend this doesn't get me hyped again, especially from Polygon...
> I just can't stop playing that game ^_^
> 
> http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/16/5902983/the-last-of-us-remastered-ps4-preview-graphics
> ...


 
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




I see what you did there.... Well played Martin, well played.
Doesn't go well together with green xD 
Still, I am taking the 1080p version over 792p/900p whatever 
I'd buy them for every platform!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



that Xone case cracked me up xO ...


----------



## theragekage

conquerator2 said:


> I am just finishing my grounded run but I won't pretend this doesn't get me hyped again, especially from Polygon...
> I just can't stop playing that game ^_^
> 
> http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/16/5902983/the-last-of-us-remastered-ps4-preview-graphics
> ...




I have been primarily an xbox gamer for the past 10 years but bought a ps3 specifically for LoU and it was well worth it. The more I play it the more I think it's overtaking shadow of the colossus as my all time favorite. Wish I had a ps4 to play it on!


----------



## conquerator2

theragekage said:


> I have been primarily an xbox gamer for the past 10 years but bought a ps3 specifically for LoU and it was well worth it. The more I play it the more I think it's overtaking shadow of the colossus as my all time favorite. Wish I had a ps4 to play it on!




I don't have one either... But if they really use cutscene models for gameplay at 1080p/60... I just might have to...


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> This is correct.  The HP100 has pretty neutral bass for the most part, but it actually has a sub-bass hump.  Once you start hearing that, you're going to love them I think.  Certain music will really bring it out, like electronic.  Go listen to something off Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" if you want to hear the bass shine.  (And thanks to @AxelCloris for the recommendation on that awesome album!)
> 
> *Agreed that the cable sucks.  I tried finding a few replacements and nothing quite fit right.  I know @Change is Good basially hacked up his Boompro to work with it.  Eventually I just got used to it... *shrug**
> 
> *If you try the pads, let me know what you think.  I've heard good things, but haven't felt the need to upgrade mine just yet.  Change might be able to give you some tips on getting the stock pads off.*


 
  
 Pad removal is pretty standard. I do recommend getting the Shure alcantaras on the SMs for much better comfort.
  
 As for the cable, yea, hacked up the BoomPro and also a VMODA audio only cable.
  

  

  
 The audio only cable was much easier to mod since it only required piece of the rubber to be cut from the jack end.
  

  

  
 I actually like the coiled cable for desk use, however, so I traded my stock HP200 cable (straight) for one.


----------



## imac2much

After hooking up the SB Omni with my new HP100, I am extremely pleased with the quality of these headphones!
 The tracks that earlier sounded a bit muted now sound much more vibrant at only 30% volume with the Omni.
 And even my wife, who has no idea about audio or gaming, tried on both pairs of headphones as I played Escala - Palladio and Bravely Default Live Concert, and her remarks were that the HP100 sounded more "airy" and "open" and that she agreed that overall sound quality was much better.
  
 Thank you all for your recommendations!  I'm still debating whether to replace the HP100 pads; I tried removing the stock pads but I couldn't figure out how to do it without damaging the headphones themselves.
  
 A couple questions:
 1) What settings do I use on the Omni to allow for SBX virtual surround in games?  I know it's different than DH so it doesn't require a Dolby 5.1 signal, but the "Cinematic" tab allows me to check either "No encoder" or "Dolby Digital Live."  Does this setting matter, or do I merely need to worry about the "Surround" option in the main tab?
 2) Stillhart (and any other HP100 users), do you change the EQ at all for your headphones?  If so, do you have any overall recommendations?  I messed with the Omni presets a bit and I think I enjoy the "Classical" preset the most, but I don't really mind zero preset either... just curious.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

imac2much said:


> Thank you all for your recommendations!  I'm still debating whether to replace the HP100 pads; *I tried removing the stock pads but I couldn't figure out how to do it without damaging the headphones themselves.*


 
  
 Pretty standard, as I mentioned...


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> After hooking up the SB Omni with my new HP100, I am extremely pleased with the quality of these headphones!
> The tracks that earlier sounded a bit muted now sound much more vibrant at only 30% volume with the Omni.
> And even my wife, who has no idea about audio or gaming, tried on both pairs of headphones as I played Escala - Palladio and Bravely Default Live Concert, and her remarks were that the HP100 sounded more "airy" and "open" and that she agreed that overall sound quality was much better.
> 
> ...


 
 1 - Don't worry about the cinematic tab, that's only if you're piping a Dolby signal over optical to something like a Mixamp (which you'll never do).  You just want to turn SBX Surround on in the first tab.  I think you also want to tell it you're using headphones.
  
 1a - Don't forget to update the firmware and software on your Omni if you haven't yet.  Makes a difference when you start getting fancy with adding more components to your audio chain.  
  
 1b - If you setup your audio player to use WASPI exclusive mode, you will never have to worry about turning off your surround processing.  The audio player will just bypass all processing.
  
 2 - I don't use the HP100 at home with the Omni.  At work I use an Audioengine D3 and no EQ.  When I'm on the road, I like to use the lower bass boost setting on my Fiio E11.


----------



## imac2much

Oh great, thanks for the pics!  For some reason I thought I had to take the earcups apart... I didn't know I could just remove the pleather itself   Thanks again... sorry, I am really new at this.
 I know that for MLE's Astro Mixamp, he says we need to set the game audio settings to 5.1 or whatever surround mode it offers.  I assume this is the same for SBX as well, right?  And then I just turn on the SBX Pro Studio in the control panel?
  
 I returned my Xonar U3 the other day, but I do wish the Omni had a convenient button to toggle SBX on/off like the U3 did.  Then again, the Omni impresses me in every other way over the U3 (including amp, as the U3 barely made a difference for my Sony headset, build quality, and convenience of use).  I like the big volume knob and the fact you can just click it to mute the volume 
  
 Guess I am going to order the 1540 pads today!
  
 edit: @Stillhart, thanks for your advice again!  I did try to update the drivers and firmware but I notice they are all up to date (I bought the Omni new from Amazon).  Thanks for the EQ advice, I'm going to try it out for a while with no EQ and then see if I still prefer the Classical presets.


----------



## Orion1991

purpleangel said:


> The HD558 have just enough bass to be called decent bass, also the 50-Ohm HD558s can be used with or without a headphone amplifier.
> Amazon will sell used HD558s for under $100.
> 
> The Beyer DT770/DT880/DT990 need to be used with an amplifier.
> ...


 
 Ah PurpleAngel, just the man I need, I listened to you before and the result was a major win 
  
 I do plan to get a sound card like the sound blaster Z which supposedly comes with an amp so I dont know if that works, or the Omni usb soundcard (I plan to use my 5.1 speakers too), I have the asus xonar DS and I dont like it tbh, so the sound card is also confusing me, because I was told in the creative Z thread that the xtremegamer sound card preforms a lot better because it uses CMSS3d rather than SBX which gives better gaming experience, I don't want to just get a  gaming sound card only I also want my music to sound good too
  
 hmm would you recommend the HD558 for for a good all rounder and its a lot cheaper than the other options, but Byer headphones look pretty tempting tbh haha, I just want something to be good for competitive gaming and fun sounding, a lot of people told me that the HD558 might be a bit dull, also  I use the HTF-600 and I thought I make an upgrade.
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## ursow94

Hi, im new here and i have some doubts.
 Im used to have a AD700, i was very happy with him, but unfortunaly he stopeed to works 1 side. Im looking for a new headphone, i already read a lot about that but i still cannot decide what headphone i should buy. Im thinking in 3 options, AD700X, HD558 and HD598. The 700x and 558 are in the same price, the 598 is 50$ more, my focus is ALL in FPS games, i discussed with a friend and he told me the new ad700x use new sound drivers wich make the soundstage worst than the older ad700.
 Anyway, i want to know the best headphone i can get with $200 for FPS games, preferably if i can buy on Bestbuy or other big store in USA (im from Brazil, i will ask for a friend to bring to me).

 The other factor i consider is the comfort!

 I guess thats it, thanks for any answer!!


----------



## Hapster

ursow94 said:


> Hi, im new here and i have some doubts.
> Im used to have a AD700, i was very happy with him, but unfortunaly he stopeed to works 1 side. Im looking for a new headphone, i already read a lot about that but i still cannot decide what headphone i should buy. Im thinking in 3 options, AD700X, HD558 and HD598. The 700x and 558 are in the same price, the 598 is 50$ more, my focus is ALL in FPS games, i discussed with a friend and he told me the new ad700x use new sound drivers wich make the soundstage worst than the older ad700.
> 
> Anyway, i want to know the best headphone i can get with $200 for FPS games, preferably if i can buy on Bestbuy or other big store in USA (im from Brazil, i will ask for a friend to bring to me).
> ...




Tried look at Denon ah-d600? should be able to find them at a best buy.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

hapster said:


> Tried look at Denon ah-d600? should be able to find them at a best buy.




I think the d600 has too much bass for competitive fps. 

I would go with the ad700x even if its slightly worse than the ad700. Nothing will cone close for the price except the hd558.


----------



## theragekage

mc lebron 23 said:


> I think the d600 has too much bass for competitive fps.




Not to mention it's like 2.5x the price. 

You won't find the ad700x at best buy. The 558s will be difficult but it's possible.


----------



## Yethal

With 200$ You can buy AKG K612 afaik


----------



## Fegefeuer

TAC to be out in 2015.
  
 Quote:


> From David Lowey, Turtle Beach,
> 
> _A big advantage with DTS Headphone:X is what our audio engineers can do with speaker angles to create a very immersive, realistic soundscape for gaming._
> 
> ...


 
  
 What kind of lame excuse is this? The PS3 can use DTS Interactive already.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> I thought MCC was going to be released "in time for the Holidays", which translates to "mid- to late-December".  Either way, I'll be grabbing it; this is my first Xbox and I've never played any Halo so it should be interesting.
> 
> But yeah, there are a LOT of good games coming out between Destiny and Halo MCC.  Dragon Age, Shadows of Mordor, Sunset Overdrive, FH2, Evolve, etc etc.  I didn't even list the games that I'm not interested in (CoD, Drive Club, AC Unity, etc).  I'm sure there will be distractions if Destiny doesn't hold up!  It's going to be a good autumn for gaming!!


 
  
  


theragekage said:


> Probably the best season for gaming I've seen in a long time. MCC is releasing on November 11th of this year. And the halo 5 beta on December 27th. I have been a big halo fan since CE so I am very excited about this.
> 
> Also pumped for sunset overdrive and evolve.


 
  
 Man you guys just got me so pumped for the upcoming gaming season. Also made me super excited that some of you have chosen the X-Box One over the PS4 (I need some new XBOne friends). I'm one of the lame kids that gets both consoles every gen to play with everyone and mainly end up on one for the most part. Lol I can't wait for Destiny and MCC. I was 98% X360 last gen, I think that trend will continue with XBOne/PS4. Hope I can link up with some of you guys on Live when I get my One.


----------



## Stillhart

hapster said:


> Tried look at Denon ah-d600? should be able to find them at a best buy.


 
 Those are $400 cans, not really in the right price range.  Plus, if he's complaining about soundstage on the AD700x, he's definitely not going to want closed cans.


----------



## Stillhart

orion1991 said:


> Ah PurpleAngel, just the man I need, I listened to you before and the result was a major win
> 
> I do plan to get a sound card like the sound blaster Z which supposedly comes with an amp so I dont know if that works, or the Omni usb soundcard (I plan to use my 5.1 speakers too), I have the asus xonar DS and I dont like it tbh, so the sound card is also confusing me, because I was told in the creative Z thread that the xtremegamer sound card preforms a lot better because it uses CMSS3d rather than SBX which gives better gaming experience, I don't want to just get a  gaming sound card only I also want my music to sound good too
> 
> ...


 
 So just want to clear a few things up:
  
 1 - Every sound card has an amp.  You can't listen to sound without one.  The amp on the SBZ/Omni is decent for a sound card, but a dedicated headphone amp will 99% of the time be an improvement.
  
 2 - The difference between CMSS-3D and SBX is there but I wouldn't say it "performs a lot better".  Personally, I had a lot of reservations buying a discontinued sound card that costs a lot of money just for a different surround processor that is only better if the game can take advantage of it.  The SBZ/Omni should be just fine, but if you want the best of the best, you're into diminishing returns territory (a lot more money for a little more improvement).
  
 I don't have any experience with those headphones so I can't recommend anything, but wanted to make sure you were clear on the sound card stuff.


----------



## Change is Good

Lost interest connection last night, Ev, while we were playing. Will be on again tonight. Will be streaming, again, too...


----------



## Stillhart

I played until 2:30am last night.  Paying for it today, but so worth it.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> What kind of lame excuse is this? The PS3 can use DTS Interactive already.


 
 That's pathetic, I agree. It also sounds like it is being tuned for COD or just FPSes in general... I dare to think what that might do to other games/genres...


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> TAC to be out in 2015.


 
  
 It's been pushed back? Damn. I was expecting to see it around Thanksgiving to Christmas for the holiday rush. Oh well. I've learned that this hobby requires much patience. Still waiting on things I paid for in October.


----------



## Silverwind

imac2much said:


> After hooking up the SB Omni with my new HP100, I am extremely pleased with the quality of these headphones!
> The tracks that earlier sounded a bit muted now sound much more vibrant at only 30% volume with the Omni.
> And even my wife, who has no idea about audio or gaming, tried on both pairs of headphones as I played Escala - Palladio and Bravely Default Live Concert, and her remarks were that the HP100 sounded more "airy" and "open" and that she agreed that overall sound quality was much better.
> 
> ...




Glad you are enjoying your OMNI, mine has been working great. I set windows volume to 100% and then set the volume inside the game to 10 or 20 %. Experiment to see if you like the windows volume at 100%. I thought it was a hair better.

For the SBX set the SBX pro studio ON anf the effect it about 30%. The Dolby section leave off, this is if you want to pass a Dolby stream to an external device. 

Make sure to he into windows sound panel and set your setup to 5.1 and also in game set to 5.1 sound. The SBX processing will take that and mix it to to your headphones.


----------



## Orion1991

stillhart said:


> So just want to clear a few things up:
> 
> 1 - Every sound card has an amp.  You can't listen to sound without one.  The amp on the SBZ/Omni is decent for a sound card, but a dedicated headphone amp will 99% of the time be an improvement.
> 
> ...


 
 First thank you for the replay, second I need a sound card not just for my headphone also for my 5.1 speakers, also I am afraid my budget is limited so I cant step into the diminishing returns territory lol, is a dedicated headphone amp really worth it ? I mean I see the term "you need an amp to drive it" and quite honestly I am not sure if I understand, I googled around and to my knowledge the headphone amp basically allow for higher possible volumes since some high end headphones have high impedance and such. 
  
No the thing that I dont understand is, should I get a sound card, a headphonr amp, or both, and note I'll be only using my computer not a portable device, so I am not quite sure how my headphones will be connected to sound card and my amp exactly, what is the source ? or will the amp on a soundcard like (sound blaster Z/OMNI/Xonar DG) will be sufficient.


----------



## cl0ck

Hey, what do u guys think about the creative aurvana live vs superlux hd668b for fps gaming?? Which one has a larger soundstage? Looking to buy one of these


----------



## PurpleAngel

orion1991 said:


> Ah PurpleAngel, just the man I need, I listened to you before and the result was a major win
> I do plan to get a sound card like the Sound Blaster Z which supposedly comes with an amp so I don't know if that works, or the Omni usb sound card (I plan to use my 5.1 speakers too), I have the Asus Xonar DS and I don't like it tbh, so the sound card is also confusing me, because I was told in the creative Z thread that the Xtreme Gamer sound card preforms a lot better because it uses CMSS-3D rather than SBX which gives better gaming experience, I don't want to just get a  gaming sound card only I also want my music to sound good too
> hmm would you recommend the HD558 for for a good all rounder and its a lot cheaper than the other options, but Beyer headphones look pretty tempting tbh haha, I just want something to be good for competitive gaming and fun sounding, a lot of people told me that the HD558 might be a bit dull, also  I use the HTF-600 and I thought I make an upgrade.


 
  
 The older audio processor EMU20K used in the Xtreme Gamer, does come with more built in hardware features/functions, then the newer SoundCore3D audio processor used in the Z series.
 When the sound card like the Xtreme Gamer came out computer CPU processors only had one core and was slower then what we have today.
 I would assume that now that PC Win computers are coming with 4 or 6 core processors running a fair bit faster, Creative newer drivers (SBX) could be written to do a lot of functions running off the main CPU. So say for sure one might be noticeably better then the other, might be difficult to say (at least for me). 
  
 With CMSS-3D vs SBX, try asking here.
 http://forums.creative.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6
  
 You could use the HD558 for gaming and then switch to the HTF-600 for when you need more bass in the audio.
 If you feel you can budget for a Beyer (DT880/DT990) for use with the Sound Blaster Z, go for it.


----------



## Stillhart

orion1991 said:


> First thank you for the replay, second I need a sound card not just for my headphone also for my 5.1 speakers, also I am afraid my budget is limited so I cant step into the diminishing returns territory lol, is a dedicated headphone amp really worth it ? I mean I see the term "you need an amp to drive it" and quite honestly I am not sure if I understand, I googled around and to my knowledge the headphone amp basically allow for higher possible volumes since some high end headphones have high impedance and such.
> 
> No the thing that I dont understand is, should I get a sound card, a headphonr amp, or both, and note I'll be only using my computer not a portable device, so I am not quite sure how my headphones will be connected to sound card and my amp exactly, what is the source ? or will the amp on a soundcard like (sound blaster Z/OMNI/Xonar DG) will be sufficient.


 
 For gaming, a dedicated headphone amp is not generally worth it EXCEPT if you have hard to drive headphones and a Mixamp and a microphone.  Since you'll be gaming on the PC with a soundcard with a much better amp than the Mixamp, you don't need a dedicated amp as well.  Amps will, however, tend to improve your sound quality overall.  If you plan on doing any music listening, you might want an amp down the road.
  
 So yeah, if you're just gaming on your PC, get a SBZ/Omni and call it a day for now.  Later you can add an amp to scale up your headphones' SQ.
  
 And I'm not going to get into "amps just give higher volumes".  Suffice it to say, it's not really the case that that's all they do.  Something like my Q701 will sound better at the same volume with an amp than without.  There are reasons for it that I don't fully understand (science!).


----------



## GoldenboyXD

cl0ck said:


> Hey, what do u guys think about the creative aurvana live vs superlux hd668b for fps gaming?? Which one has a larger soundstage? Looking to buy one of these


 
 CAL is a closed HP. Get it if you like a closed HP. Generally, open or semi-open HP like HD668B has a larger soundstage.


----------



## ursow94

ursow94 said:


> Hi, im new here and i have some doubts.
> Im used to have a AD700, i was very happy with him, but unfortunaly he stopeed to works 1 side. Im looking for a new headphone, i already read a lot about that but i still cannot decide what headphone i should buy. Im thinking in 3 options, AD700X, HD558 and HD598. The 700x and 558 are in the same price, the 598 is 50$ more, my focus is ALL in FPS games, i discussed with a friend and he told me the new ad700x use new sound drivers wich make the soundstage worst than the older ad700.
> Anyway, i want to know the best headphone i can get with $200 for FPS games, preferably if i can buy on Bestbuy or other big store in USA (im from Brazil, i will ask for a friend to bring to me).
> 
> ...


 
 Does not NEED to be on bestbuy, it can be in another big store on Miami


----------



## PurpleAngel

cl0ck said:


> Hey, what do u guys think about the Creative Aurvana Live vs superlux hd668b for fps gaming?? Which one has a larger sound stage? Looking to buy one of these


 
  
 The CALs have small cups, so the diaphragm seems to only sit a few miillimeter from my ear, and my ears will only last about 15 minutes while listening to them.
 Then I have to take the CALs off to give my ears a rest.


----------



## cl0ck

goldenboyxd said:


> CAL is a closed HP. Get it if you like a closed HP. Generally, open or semi-open HP like HD668B has a larger soundstage.


 
 aight thanks.. And may i know what prevents that HP from getting into this guide?


----------



## Orion1991

purpleangel said:


> The older audio processor EMU20K used in the Xtreme Gamer, does come with more built in hardware features/functions, then the newer SoundCore3D audio processor used in the Z series.
> When the sound card like the Xtreme Gamer came out computer CPU processors only had one core and was slower then what we have today.
> I would assume that now that PC Win computers are coming with 4 or 6 core processors running a fair bit faster, Creative newer drivers (SBX) could be written to do a lot of functions running off the main CPU. So say for sure one might be noticeably better then the other, might be difficult to say (at least for me).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I use the HTF-600 for everything, so I thought I upgrade to a better all rounder , AKG headphones are a little bit overpriced for me at the moment so now I just need to decide between the HD558 vs DT990.
  
 -I heard people say the DT990 can get a little fatiguing because of the bloated bass that could overshadow some of the small details, at the same time everyone says they are more fun than the HD558, having you used both what are your thoughts ? to put it in a summery I guess :
 1-small Details are very important 
 2-Comfortable for long hours of use, I hate that feeling of taking the headphones off to rest your ears.
 3-I listen to all kinds of music so I guess a fun sounding headphones.
 4-balanced bass, because too much bass gives me headache.
 5-my budget is 150$ for the headphones it covers both of these, I could take another suggestions in that price range I guess.
  
 another note, I decided to get the sound blaster Z anyway, which should be enough to drive the Beyer, is this just a sound card for gaming ? I mean is it good for music as well.
  
 And again Thank you guys for the help


----------



## cl0ck

purpleangel said:


> The CALs have small cups, so the diaphragm seems to only sit a few miillimeter from my ear, and my ears will only last about 15 minutes while listening to them.
> Then I have to take the CALs off to give my ears a rest.


 
 People also said the hd668b is uncomfortable but i guess i can live with tissue paper under the pad. How good does the CALs sounds like compared to the hd668b or whatever under 100$ HP?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks Change for the Destiny beta code, and also thanks to Evs for the offer. The game downloaded about 30 minutes before bed time, but I was able to play the first level. 

Looks like Destiny will be a fantastic game to demo virtual surround with, as I was getting very impressive audio cues with my Mixamp and Ultrasone 15G.

As for the game itself, not too impressed with it's graphics and gameplay (really just Halo with a new skin, and Borderlands style system), but I can see the appeal. If you love Halo, you'll love Destiny. It plays exactly the same, barring a few design differences obviously. They call this game Halo: Destiny, and it'd make all the sense in the world.

I guess I just expected too much out of next gen.

Not hating on the game. Its definitely gonna be a blast to fans of those types of games.


----------



## Change is Good

No problem. I still have two codes available... first come, first serve. *Must have a US account.*


----------



## Sek911

Hi, i hope you (someone) can help me with my problem. So iam looking for headphones (my first pair in fact). I dont really have a real budget only a maximum amount i want so spent which would be around 160€ (NOT $!  ).
  
 So iam looking for headphones (Over-Ear and Open) that has great positional accuracy to locate ppl in first-person shooters (mainly counter strike go) and also music but the main point is positional accuracy! But i cannot really find a good pair in this guide.

 For example the AD700(x) would seem to be a great choice but start at 175€ in europe(germany).
  
 So to make things a little bit faster. My personal favorite are the Sennheiser HD's (518 85euro, 558 130euro, 598 160euro) and i would really like to know if there are better choise in the prince range "xx to ~160€ than the Sennheiser (for example AKG k612) for competitive gaming.
  
 And which Sennheiser HD's would you recommend if not. (Price/Performance wise)
  
 Hopefully my english isn't too bad and you understand my problem. I really dont want to **** up my first headphone purchase 
  
 Edit:
 Gonna post stuff here since responding all the time might be kinda spamming
  
 Akg q701 starts at 237 euro in germany so thats no option =/ or well a very expensive one  /akg 701 187euro, akg 702 207euro ;( )


----------



## Yethal

160 euro will be about 220 usd to go for AKG Q701


----------



## Sek911

Akg q701 starts at 237 euro in germany


----------



## Brozuf

Hey all,
  
 I'm looking for headphones that have a detachable cable, won't require an amp and have excellent positional accuracy/clarity and cues for FPS gaming.
  
 Headphones I have already considered and rejected for various reasons:
 Sennheiser HD558/598
 Philips Fidelio X1
  
 I'm now leaning towards the Superlux HD668B with various mods but its not ideal.
  
 Appreciate any suggestions!
  
 Cheers
  
 Edit: Forgot to mention, preferably under $200.


----------



## AxelCloris

brozuf said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm looking for headphones that have a detachable cable, won't require an amp and have excellent positional accuracy/clarity and cues for FPS gaming.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Soundmagic HP200?


----------



## Brozuf

axelcloris said:


> Soundmagic HP200?


 
 That is a great suggestion! I was hoping to find something below $200 though (I'll edit my post) but I might be willing to get them. Any less expensive options on the top of your head? Thanks!


----------



## imac2much

Hey everyone, I've been listening to the HP100 with SB Omni extensively the past couple days, mostly with music rather than gaming as I haven't had much time to play anything.  I did use it with Borderlands 2, Dynasty Warriors 8 and Mercenary Kings though, and they sounded great overall.
  
 However, I noticed something while listening to music.  I have kind of strange tastes in music, and I mostly listen to classical or "electric" strings (think Bond and Lindsey Stirling) along with musicals (Les Mis, Wicked), game soundtracks (Transistor, Shovel Knight), and occasional rock or guitar (Joe Satriani).  All the vocals sound excellent on the HP100, and I've come to love the subdued but accurate bass response as well.  However, sometimes I feel the highs (especially on classical strings) sound a bit shrill... is this "sibilance"?  Has anyone else encountered this on the HP100's?
  
 My Shure 1540 pads should come in tomorrow, so I'm hoping they will improve the highs a bit.
  
 I'm new at this so I'm still getting to know my preferred sound signature.  I think I wouldn't mind a bit more mid-bass and less harsh highs, but I'm not sure yet since I've yet to make any comparisons.
  
 I hope to buy some open headphones later, probably after I finish my move to China in a couple months.  I'd like to get some headphones that will last me several years, so I'm currently looking at the $200-$350 price range.  I'm still doing some research on a bunch of headphones in that range atm, but it's difficult to figure out my "dream" phone since everyone's preferences are so different   I may come back with 3-4 after I've narrowed them down and figured out my preferred priorities in order to ask for some recommendations.
  
 Thanks everyone!  I only joined a week ago and my wallet already hurts!  ...but my ears are forever grateful


----------



## Yethal

sek911 said:


> Akg q701 starts at 237 euro in germany


 
 K612?


----------



## martin vegas

I have set my ps4 to dolby bitstream and I am getting better directional audio now with my dac amp and headset..i had it set on linear pcm before I changed my settings, did the update change something?


----------



## AxelCloris

brozuf said:


> That is a great suggestion! I was hoping to find something below $200 though (I'll edit my post) but I might be willing to get them. Any less expensive options on the top of your head? Thanks!


 
  
 In the sub-$200 range you'll have to make some concessions. Requiring a detachable cable limits you. Maybe the KRK KNS8400? There's one available in the for sale thread for a great price ($70). It's a closed can that has a relatively neutral response but with a little emphasis on the low end. It's quite comfortable and it has decent positioning. It won't be amazing but that's simply because it's a closed can. The Q701 sounds decent without an amp so don't let the comments saying an amp is best deter you from considering it. An amp definitely improves it, but that's true for many headphones. Even my HE-400 sound decent without a strong amp but they certainly improve once one is added to the chain.


----------



## IBIubbleTea

So I read through some headphone reviews but I still unsure which one to get. I'm a competitive FPS gamer and I was looking at the K612 Pros and the HD598s or the AD700x and AD900x which aren't in this review. I was wondering which one is the best for competitive gaming and music.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> What portable DAC/AMPs are you guys using? I'm thinking about getting the JDS LABs C5D, preferrably something stronger as it's supposed to be too weak for headphones like the HD 650.



My only portable amp is the E12, but I still prefer using a desktop amp. I'm actually pleased at how well my DSS drives my 600 ohm DT880 on it's own: low distortion, but I have to have the volume almost all the way up. Problem is, the DT880 sounds TOO precise and the lean mids leave me feeling bored. I haven't given up on it yet, and it's definitely god-tier for gaming, but separation is so clear that music sounds like a bunch of instruments playing at the same time.



stillhart said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, I am a huge a-hole.  I just want to scare away any noobies by being too mean too soon.
> 
> In other news, any PS4 owners streaming Destiny right now?  I need a fix until I can get home and fire up the PS3 beta (to hold me over until Xbone beta).  @Evshrug
> I'm lookin at you!



Sorry bud! I posted a cool clip to my Facebook page tho:


----------



## lenroot77

I have a extra destiny code for ps4...pm me if u need it. For the US psn.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ibiubbletea said:


> So I read through some headphone reviews but I still unsure which one to get. I'm a competitive FPS gamer and I was looking at the K612 Pros and the HD598s or the AD700x and AD900x which aren't in this review. I was wondering which one is the best for competitive gaming and music.


 
  
 I would guess the ATH-AD900X would offer good music quality and do fairly well with FPS gaming.
 What sources will you be plugging the headphones into?
  
 Sennheiser HD558s if you want to save some cash (not as musical as the AD900Xs).


----------



## IBIubbleTea

purpleangel said:


> I would guess the ATH-AD900X would offer good music quality and do fairly well with FPS gaming.
> What sources will you be plugging the headphones into?
> 
> Sennheiser HD558s if you want to save some cash (not as musical as the AD900Xs).


 
 I heard the AD900x don't have a lot of bass. I like to listen to dubstep and such and I some bass in my music.
  
 I will be plugging them into my motherboard, I'm able to drive the K612 because my mother has a onboard amp, which can drive up to 600ohm headphones.

 What about the K612? Are they as good as the AD900x for gaming and music? Or will the AD900x have the lead in gaming and K612 in music?


----------



## Knel

Guys i read the reviews on first page and am thinking of buying out of these headsets
I only wont the headset for competitve gaming on ps4 cod ghosts not for anything else
I thinking these headsets btw i will be using it with my dss i would like your opinions
Superlux hd668b few people recomened these 40 pound amazon very cheap
Akg 612 pro mle rated it 9 -10 these are what i was thinking of buying 100 pound amazon i like this price
Ad700x mle rated older version 10 - 10 i think sells for 200 pound i think very dear
Hd 598 mle rated 9.25 -10 amazon around 150 pound ok price for me
Hd 558 heard thes are good cant rember price but all were cheap and second hand
Akg 701 mle rated these 10-10 but he said these were the ones with 7 bumps he also calls them 702 so not sure what one it is also if there the 701 cant seem to find where to buy them 
sorry for making this a long boring post
I would love the q701 or akg 702 annies but they are both out of my price range


----------



## Knel

Sorry but i want oto add these headsets to the list 
samsung sr850
Superlux 681 
Superlux 681evo also 
Superlux hd668b


----------



## MC LeBron 23

knel said:


> Sorry but i want oto add these headsets to the list
> samsung sr850
> Superlux 681
> Superlux 681evo also
> Superlux hd668b




For me the ad700 is always #1 for pure competitive gaming. Then again I've never used any of The other headphones on your list.

From reading it seems for pure competitive fps its...

1. Ad700
2. k701/2

Can't go wrong with either one of those.

3. Hd598, AKG 712 in a close third and fourth.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As I have said time and time again, don't compare scores from one headphone to another. Scores are reflective of a headphones own strengths and weaknesses, not how they stack up to others. I'll take a solid all rounder with 8s over a headphone that may be a 10 in one thing, and a 6 elsewhere.

Read the actual review and base judgement on seeing if what I said is to your liking. Not the actual scores themselves.

Since I do not have ALL of these headphones at the same time, there is no legitimate way to say one headphone's 9.25, is better than another's 9. The scores are more of a feeling of what the headphone brings to the table, not that the 9.25 edges out a 9 from another headphone.

AGAIN, DON'T BASE PURCHASES PURELY OFF SCORE.


----------



## Brozuf

axelcloris said:


> In the sub-$200 range you'll have to make some concessions. Requiring a detachable cable limits you. Maybe the KRK KNS8400? There's one available in the for sale thread for a great price ($70). It's a closed can that has a relatively neutral response but with a little emphasis on the low end. It's quite comfortable and it has decent positioning. It won't be amazing but that's simply because it's a closed can. The Q701 sounds decent without an amp so don't let the comments saying an amp is best deter you from considering it. An amp definitely improves it, but that's true for many headphones. Even my HE-400 sound decent without a strong amp but they certainly improve once one is added to the chain.




Is that really true though? I mean I love the the look of the q107's but I've read so often that it's a complete waste without proper amping. I'll be running them with my xbox one without a mixamp and through either a SB Omni or Xonar U3 (haven't researched that one yet, any advice?) with my laptop.

As for the KRK closed cans, I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice that much positional accuracy. But I'll look into them, thanks!


----------



## Knel

Cheers all for your replies 
i have narrowed down my search to 3 headphones
I will be using it for Just for ps4 ghost competitve soundwhoreing nothing else
1 Superlux hd668b 
2 Superlux 681evo
3 samsung sr850
What do you guys think out of these 3 what has best sound stage and audio postioning
I keep reading good stuff about the superlux hd668b 
I will be using it with dss untill i can get a mixamp 
Cheers again all for your help


----------



## G3org3

knel said:


> Cheers all for your replies
> i have narrowed down my search to 3 headphones
> I will be using it for Just for ps4 ghost competitve soundwhoreing nothing else
> 1 Superlux hd668b
> ...




Get the superlux hd 668b amazing for audio positioning and only £30 on amazon


----------



## MC LeBron 23

knel said:


> Cheers all for your replies
> i have narrowed down my search to 3 headphones
> I will be using it for Just for ps4 ghost competitve soundwhoreing nothing else
> 1 Superlux hd668b
> ...




Pretty sure the majority would agree that the ad700s have the biggest sound stage and best positioning for fps. Can you buy online???


----------



## MC LeBron 23

I can't decide on 5 headphones. If I were to buy 3 on amazon and returned all 3, could I get into trouble??? Or would amazon allow that?


----------



## Knel

I Cant buy ad 700 new you can only buy ad700x new from what i read ad700x isnt as good as ad700
George i knew you would recomend the superlux hd668b as thats how i heard about them from your recomendation
I have a question for you g3orge
You have q701 and hd668b but when your playing ghosts how far can you hear enemies on both sets in ft
My headphones can hear from upto about 20 ft for enemies footsteps 
Hope i made sence


----------



## G3org3

knel said:


> I Cant buy ad 700 new you can only buy ad700x new from what i read ad700x isnt as good as ad700
> George i knew you would recomend the superlux hd668b as thats how i heard about them from your recomendation
> I have a question for you g3orge
> You have q701 and hd668b but when your playing ghosts how far can you hear enemies on both sets in ft
> ...




I'm not sure how far in ft I can hear enemy's but if you go to my YouTube channel there's a few videos on FFA were I know exactly were every enemy is coming from even the 1s with dead silence. Obviously my q701s are better but to be honest the hd668b are not that far behind them I'm actually thinking of putting some velour pads on my 668b because they can get quite hot after a few hours.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

@Knel...did you read MLE ad700 review? He says according to trustworthy members of this forum, the ad700x sounds "near identical" to the ad700. There's also a new ad700 on eBay for $200 BIN. I would just go with the 700x. Who told you it sounds different/worse???


----------



## Knel

Mc lebron ive read mle reviews nearly all of them apart from his newest one hfi 15g 
Think if i rember right lot of people said ad 700x and ad700 sounded same but with less soundstage sorry if im wrong cheers for your help though
Also read good things about superlux hd668b a few posts say that they had ad700x but prefered the superlux hd668b
G3org3 cheeers again for the help i will be buying thesuperlux hd668b btw i watch all your ffa videoeson ghosts i subscribed
Think your vids are brillliant especially the ffa vids as thats the game mode i play
I learned a few get holdong spots from you i love the one in freight
Cheers again all for the help


----------



## G3org3

knel said:


> Mc lebron ive read mle reviews nearly all of them apart from his newest one hfi 15g
> Think if i rember right lot of people said ad 700x and ad700 sounded same but with less soundstage sorry if im wrong cheers for your help though
> Also read good things about superlux hd668b a few posts say that they had ad700x but prefered the superlux hd668b
> G3org3 cheeers again for the help i will be buying thesuperlux hd668b btw i watch all your ffa videoeson ghosts i subscribed
> ...




You can't go wrong with the hd668b £30 and they sound amazing. Also thanks for the sub


----------



## Knel

Sorry guys i have another question about the dss
Ok im gonna buy the superlux hd668b can the dss use an amp not sure if it can i think it cant if it can would amping it be any good for these set or using a dac
i would read mle review on it but i cant as i am using my ps4 to write these messages and i cant view the reviews from ps4 and i have no way of viewing them now
I think dss wont be able to use amp or dac as dss dosent have no input device ie red and white inputs not sure if im correct though as im only trying to remeber what ive read in the past on the reviews on this forum so sorry if my info is incorrect
Cheers again hope i made sence


----------



## Knel

Sorry guys he we go again with another question just bought the Superlux HD668B 
i also bought zalman zmmic1 microphone can i use the mic on the dss 
im sure it works on mixamp i hope i havent wasted my money lol it was only cheap so no biggy if it dosent
So if anybody coukd be kind enough to tell me what mic and adapter i can use to get mic working on dss on the ps4 
Sorry for spamming the thread with annoying questions
Im so happy at moment after buying these headset online i feel like a kid again waiting for christmas i cant wait to rry them lol
Cheers all again for all the great help and links youve provided me


----------



## PurpleAngel

knel said:


> Sorry guys i have another question about the DSS
> Ok I'm gonna buy the Superlux HD668B can the DSS use an amp not sure if it can i think it cant if it can would amping it be any good for these set or using a DAC
> i would read mle review on it but I cant as I am using my PS4 to write these messages and I cant view the reviews from PS4 and i have no way of viewing them now
> I think DSS wont be able to use amp or DAC as DSS doesn't have no input device ie red and white inputs not sure if I'm correct though as I'm only trying to remember what I've read in the past on the reviews on this forum so sorry if my info is incorrect
> Cheers again hope i made sense


 
  
 You could daisy chain an external headphone amplifier to the TBS DSS's headphone output, but for headphones like the HD668B, I can't see it being worth it.
 You can't hook an add-on DAC to the TBS DSS


----------



## PurpleAngel

knel said:


> Sorry guys he we go again with another question just bought the Superlux HD668B
> i also bought zalman zmmic1 microphone can i use the mic on the DSS
> im sure it works on mixamp i hope i havent wasted my money lol it was only cheap so no biggy if it doesn't
> So if anybody could be kind enough to tell me what mic and adapter I can use to get mic working on DSS on the PS4
> ...


 
  
 I would assume the PS4 uses it's USB connection as a mic input.
 So I'm assuming you need a cable with a USB connection at one end, with a DAC chip built into the cable and a 3.5mm jack at the other end?
 To connect the DSS's line-output (mic out) to the USB connection on the PS4.
 Unless the PS4 has a 3.5mm or RCA line-input? (for your mic).


----------



## MC LeBron 23

Does anyone know how much different the dt770-80 sounds compared to the 250 omhs? I am going to demo the 250 version and the ultrasone pro 900 with a Fiio e12. They don't have the 80 in stock so the 250 is my only option.

Also, is the Fiio e12 better than the e17? I will also be pairing with a mix amp when gaming.

Is


----------



## Knel

Cheers purple angel for the reply im not sure if the dss has a mic input plug the ps4 only has usb connector and hdmi no 3mm jack plug


----------



## martin vegas

knel said:


> Cheers purple angel for the reply im not sure if the dss has a mic input plug the ps4 only has usb connector and hdmi no 3mm jack plug


 

 Your mic will have to go into your ps4 controller somehow!


----------



## Stillhart

brozuf said:


> Is that really true though? I mean I love the the look of the q107's but I've read so often that it's a complete waste without proper amping. I'll be running them with my xbox one without a mixamp and through either a SB Omni or Xonar U3 (haven't researched that one yet, any advice?) with my laptop.
> 
> As for the KRK closed cans, I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice that much positional accuracy. But I'll look into them, thanks!


 
 It's not a "complete waste" if you're not going to amp it.  It's just that you're not going to hear them at their best with no amp.  You'd be better off buying a slightly "worse" headphone that doesn't need amping.
  
 Heres how my math brain thinks of it:  
 Q701 with no amp = 8/10
 Heaphone X with no amp = 9/10
 Q701 with amp = 10/10
  
 You're not getting a BAD headphone when using the Q701 with no amp.  You could get one that's a little better with no amp and come out ahead.  OR you could get the Q701 and then get an amp later when you can afford it and you'll end up with a better setup overall.  Options are nice.
  
 The important thing is to understand that, if you've never heard any of these audiophile headphones for gaming before, an 8/10 will still blow your ******* mind.  You should only be sweating the finer distinctions if you already have some experience to guide your decision.


----------



## Stillhart

Random Destiny thought:  I've never played a Halo game before, but I've read about how great the controls are and how all other games try to emulate it as the benchmark.  I can say that the controls for Destiny feel amazing.  If this is what people are talking about, I'm a believer.  I suck at FPS games, yet here I am using a Scout Rifle and just getting headshot after headshot.  Thumbs up!


----------



## MC LeBron 23

stillhart said:


> Random Destiny thought:  I've never played a Halo game before, but I've read about how great the controls are and how all other games try to emulate it as the benchmark.  I can say that the controls for Destiny feel amazing.  If this is what people are talking about, I'm a believer.  I suck at FPS games, yet here I am using a Scout Rifle and just getting headshot after headshot.  Thumbs up!




If you're getting "headshot after headshot" and you never player Halo, the game must suck and not be anything like Halo 1,2 or 3.


----------



## Kammo

Hey everyone, this is my first post on these forums after doing alot of research around the internet.
  
 I tried my best to try to learn what i needed to go it myself but im just absolutely overloaded with options and information to the point where i just cant process it all myself.
  
 So this is my first venture into audiophile headphones, my G35 snapped off the earphone when i accidently dropped it off my bed and i decided it was time to go another venture in technology into the audiophile area.
  
 Firstly i mainly intend on the headset being used for gaming, followed closely by music/movies. Ill be using it on a desktop computer, the mobo is a sabertooth 990fx if that information is needed at all. If you need any more info just ask.

 So basically after pouring over the OP and alot of other reviews around the net ive gone ahead and ordered a *AKG K612 Pro*, i havent ordered an amp or a dac for it nor a sound card. I am leaning towards getting a mod mic for it as i do need the mic for gaming. 
  
 So my questions are;
  
 1) Is there a best option for being on a budget? (amp/soundcard??/mic)
  
 2) From my understanding the K612 is on the harder side of headphones to drive, does this basically mean to get good sound quality from it i need to invest in an amp?
  
  
 Tldr;
  
 I need help understanding the relation between dac's/soundcards/dedicated amp's, im on a budget and would like the cheapeast possible median to get good sound quality/experience from a AKG K612.
  
 Its to my understanding that all onboard soundcards are just balls and just picking up a starter DAC would help tremendously, at the moment im just looking for small purchases that give big increases in quality if such things exist, if i can afford the more expensive-for-minor-upgrades later i can look into that then.


----------



## ursow94

I found a store to buy the headphones. Now the only doubt is what is what headphone will be the best for competitive (fps games).
 Headphones available:
 AD700X
 HD598
 HD558
  
 I can take this three for almost the same price, the 598 is a little more expensive.
 Anyway, i just want to know what is the best one to fps games.
 Thanks!


----------



## martin vegas

People are already playing the last of us remastered on twitch..had a quick look..looks very good but won't be watching anymore, I am saving myself for the first of august!


----------



## imac2much

My Shure 1540 pads came in today!
 I've never replaced pads on headphones before, so that took a brief learning curve (especially since the 1540 pads don't fit as snug in the groove as the original HP100 pads), but overall I think they make a big improvement, at least in comfort!  My ears don't stick out much but I did feel that they were a bit close to the fabric covering the drivers at times.  The 1540 pads are definitely deeper than stock pads, so I no longer have this problem.  I've never worn velour pads before, so I can't compare to that, but I do feel these are slightly more "breathable" than the stock pleather while still giving a nice seal around my ears.
  
 I haven't listened to enough music yet to make a judgment on sound, but I DO feel that they increase the "bass feel" noticeably, which isn't unwanted on my part.  When testing with some tracks like Massive Attack - Angel, the bass is definitely more present, while still being more distinct than my old Sony Pulse Elites (which apparently have "bloated bass"?).  However, I also noticed that the snare drums and hi-hat are not as pronounced as they were with stock pads.  I only notice this now because this was a huge difference from my old Sony Pulse Elites, but now the difference isn't as distinct.
  
 I was worried that the pads made my music more muffled, so I put on some classical and electric strings (along with some Daft Punk).  I'm glad to say that strings and vocals sound as clear as before, at least to my ears.  
  
 I'll definitely be keeping these pads on, and I appreciate the recommendation, Change!  Thanks everyone!


----------



## cokker

> Originally Posted by *Kammo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> snip
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes they are hard to drive! Give them a go with what you have now but if you find them too quiet try and pick up a Xonar DG or something similar.
  
 As mentioned before, grab a desktop mic as having one attached can be annoying. I use a crappy trust branded mic and it does the job well.


----------



## Evshrug

Kammo,
There are two amping challenges/things amps can help with headphones. 

1.) low impedance headphones (like 32 ohm headphones made for iPods, most common today) benefit from a large pool of Current to draw from (at listening volumes) in order to prevent distortion and clipping problems (harsh highs and flabby bass, etc).

2.) High impedance headphones need more Voltage to be able to sound loud enough, but usually they have plenty of current at listening volumes. 

A headphone's sensitivity and an amp's "clarity" and design also plays a role in "loudness" and quality, but to keep things simple and speaking in a general sense, a higher Ohm headphone will sound great as long as you can amp it loud enough (and your amp isn't really cheap/crappy/colored).

The K612 has 120 ohms impedance, but it was plenty loud from my Omni and my Turtle Beach DSS. 120 Ohms is higher than most, but it still benefits from a clean amp that also supplies plenty of current. If I lost all my headphones and I wanted a good price value that would be great for years, I'd buy a K612 too.





mc lebron 23 said:


> If you're getting "headshot after headshot" and you never player Halo, the game must suck and not be anything like Halo 1,2 or 3.



There's what feels like a bit of a larger headshot hitbox than what you see, but unlike CoD I don't notice a sticky autoaim that will sometimes drag your aim if someone runs by. It is by no means easy to snipe headshots in the Crucible PvP arena, but in the co-op stuff it feels like you get what you try to aim for.

Some people will just dislike no matter what though. I can understand people disliking hit detection or graphical styles, I only think people are just being ignorant if they get mad at Bungie for "favoring Sony" and "abandoning the Xbox community that made them." Bungie was a Mac-only game dev, then they were bought by Microsoft and much of what's happened since then has been influenced by 3rd parties. I'm glad to see a new IP.


----------



## Change is Good

imac2much said:


> My Shure 1540 pads came in today!
> I've never replaced pads on headphones before, so that took a brief learning curve (especially since the 1540 pads don't fit as snug in the groove as the original HP100 pads), but overall I think they make a big improvement, at least in comfort!  My ears don't stick out much but I did feel that they were a bit close to the fabric covering the drivers at times.  The 1540 pads are definitely deeper than stock pads, so I no longer have this problem.  I've never worn velour pads before, so I can't compare to that, but I do feel these are slightly more "breathable" than the stock pleather while still giving a nice seal around my ears.
> 
> I haven't listened to enough music yet to make a judgment on sound, but I DO feel that they increase the "bass feel" noticeably, which isn't unwanted on my part.  When testing with some tracks like Massive Attack - Angel, the bass is definitely more present, while still being more distinct than my old Sony Pulse Elites (which apparently have "bloated bass"?).  However, I also noticed that the snare drums and hi-hat are not as pronounced as they were with stock pads.  I only notice this now because this was a huge difference from my old Sony Pulse Elites, but now the difference isn't as distinct.
> ...




Glad you like the results! I'm guessing the pads fixed that 'sibilance' issue you noticed on some tracks? Yes, the HP100 gets a bit hot up top on some badly recorded tracks. With it's stock sub bass boost and linear mid bass, I can only imagine the wonders these pads are doing for them


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> My Shure 1540 pads came in today!
> I've never replaced pads on headphones before, so that took a brief learning curve (especially since the 1540 pads don't fit as snug in the groove as the original HP100 pads), but overall I think they make a big improvement, at least in comfort!  My ears don't stick out much but I did feel that they were a bit close to the fabric covering the drivers at times.  The 1540 pads are definitely deeper than stock pads, so I no longer have this problem.  I've never worn velour pads before, so I can't compare to that, but I do feel these are slightly more "breathable" than the stock pleather while still giving a nice seal around my ears.
> 
> I haven't listened to enough music yet to make a judgment on sound, but I DO feel that they increase the "bass feel" noticeably, which isn't unwanted on my part.  When testing with some tracks like Massive Attack - Angel, the bass is definitely more present, while still being more distinct than my old Sony Pulse Elites (which apparently have "bloated bass"?).  However, I also noticed that the snare drums and hi-hat are not as pronounced as they were with stock pads.  I only notice this now because this was a huge difference from my old Sony Pulse Elites, but now the difference isn't as distinct.
> ...


 
  
 So sonically, you'd say they increase bass and decrease highs and mids somewhat?  Have you noticed any difference in isolation levels (specifically in how well they isolate from outside noise coming in)?


----------



## Kammo

Thanks for the help Stillhart, cokker, Evshrug.

 I went ahead and ordered the Omni today as it was leaps and bounds cheaper then anything else that i was considering and it has good reviews to boot!

 Will come back and let you know how my first experience goes once they've both arrived.
  
 Thanks again.


----------



## Yethal

So I got an unusual question for You guys. Is there a way to get rid of the suspension style headband on the AKG headphones? These thing are so damn uncomfortable to me, and I'd love to have Q701 or K612 but with a solid headband. Is it even possible?


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> So I got an unusual question for You guys. Is there a reason to get rid of the suspension style headband on the AKg headphones? These thing are so damn uncomfortable to me And I'd love to have Q701 or K612 but with a solid headband. Is it even possible?


 
 Someone just posted a mod in the Q701 thread that he said helped a lot with the headband pain.  I didn't quite follow what he did, but he said it was reversible so ??


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Someone just posted a mod in the Q701 thread that he said helped a lot with the headband pain.  I didn't quite follow what he did, but he said it was reversible so ??


 
 Nah, what I'm looking for is removing the suspension headband and replacing it with a stiff one, with a cushion undernath


----------



## IBIubbleTea

What would be better, Q701 or the K612 Pro. I will be using them for mostly competitive first person gaming and music. I have been using the Corsair Vengeance 1300 headset and well I thought I needed an upgrade because I have been having problems listening to footsteps and such with them. Music I listen to are dub step and the top hits. What are the Pros and Cons of these headphones besides that they might or need an amp.

 At the moment the prices for both the Q701 and the K612 Pro are under $200 or that could be the usual price 

 Any help?


----------



## Change is Good

ibiubbletea said:


> What would be better, Q701 or the K612 Pro. I will be using them for mostly competitive first person gaming and music. I have been using the Corsair Vengeance 1300 headset and well I thought I needed an upgrade because I have been having problems listening to footsteps and such with them. Music I listen to are dub step and the top hits. What are the Pros and Cons of these headphones besides that they might or need an amp.
> 
> 
> At the moment the prices for both the Q701 and the K612 Pro are under $200 or that could be the usual price
> ...




If you can stand the headband bumps, go for the Q701. Slightly easier to drive than the more synergy hungry K612.


----------



## IBIubbleTea

change is good said:


> If you can stand the headband bumps, go for the Q701. Slightly easier to drive than the more synergy hungry K612.


 
 Is there a advantage of the Q701 over the K612 besides the K612 being more power hungry?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

My amazon order I have some akg 712 pros, neewer clip mic and astro 2013 mix amp. Going to hook it all up and play on 360/ps3. I will see what it sounds like first (obviously) but would like a recommendation for amp/DAC. Read on here about the Mont Blanc and the magni/ modi. I forget which is the amp or DAC, excuse my ignorance. Anyways what are your thoughts on what I should buy to really make these sound the best for gaming? Also so I "need" a DAC for these? If so I read I couldn't pair modi and magni both with the mix amp correct?


----------



## lenroot77

Can someone please confirm for me that a dss with a fiio e11 will be enough to drive a pair of dt990 250omhs?

Thanks in advance

These are only 150 bucks on Amazon right now seems like a really good deal? I'm coming from a pair of hd558's and I'm hoping these will provide a more fun and immersive atmosphere for single player gaming. Thoughts? Suggestions??


----------



## imac2much

change is good said:


> Glad you like the results! I'm guessing the pads fixed that 'sibilance' issue you noticed on some tracks? Yes, the HP100 gets a bit hot up top on some badly recorded tracks. With it's stock sub bass boost and linear mid bass, I can only imagine the wonders these pads are doing for them


 
 Yes, I don't hear any shrill high's anymore.  I'm really new at this, so I'm not sure if this is the sibilance head-fi users warn about, but certain high notes (like the Windows "ding" noise, for example) tended to be very shrill and hurt my ears.  However, with the new pads I don't notice this anymore!
  


stillhart said:


> So sonically, you'd say they increase bass and decrease highs and mids somewhat?  Have you noticed any difference in isolation levels (specifically in how well they isolate from outside noise coming in)?


 
 Yes, I think that's what I'm hearing.  Again, it's hard to tell if it's a complete win objectively, but I find the added bass and lessened highs more enjoyable.  Also, the pads are much more comfortable (mostly because my ears are not so close to the drivers).  I do feel like the seal is better, once again probably because the pads are "deeper" than the stock pads, and this helps with the isolation.  Honestly though, I felt the isolation was quite good with stock pads too so I don't know if it really makes too much of a difference.  My wife still routinely surprises me while I'm listening to music


----------



## Evshrug

Cheers Kammo!
I love my AKG, the fact that the K612's stand up well against the 700 series makes them a great bargain IMO.


----------



## Stillhart

bunnynamedfrank said:


> My amazon order I have some akg 712 pros, neewer clip mic and astro 2013 mix amp. Going to hook it all up and play on 360/ps3. I will see what it sounds like first (obviously) but would like a recommendation for amp/DAC. Read on here about the Mont Blanc and the magni/ modi. I forget which is the amp or DAC, excuse my ignorance. Anyways what are your thoughts on what I should buy to really make these sound the best for gaming? Also so I "need" a DAC for these? If so I read I couldn't pair modi and magni both with the mix amp correct?


 
  
 You will likely want an amp if only to get the volume levels up.  If so, the E12 Mont Blanc and Magni are both recommended often around here.  One is a portable (needs to be charged) and one is a desktop (needs to be plugged in all the time).  Get whichever is more convenient for you, IMO.
  


lenroot77 said:


> Can someone please confirm for me that a dss with a fiio e11 will be enough to drive a pair of dt990 250omhs?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> These are only 150 bucks on Amazon right now seems like a really good deal? I'm coming from a pair of hd558's and I'm hoping these will provide a more fun and immersive atmosphere for single player gaming. Thoughts? Suggestions??


 
  
 I can't confirm that as I've never heard the Beyer's.  But I know my E11 isn't that beefy of an amp... I suspect you might want a little more juice.  Then again, Evs says his DT880 is just fine right out of the DSS so you'll probably be fine too.


----------



## Change is Good

So, I just went to my mailbox... and...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 LOL!


----------



## Brozuf

So I've decided to get the Superlux HD668B headphones and I have a bit of a elaborate plan that I'm not sure will work or if there's a better way of accomplishing what I'm trying to do.
  
Basically, I'll be plugging this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-stereo-TRRS-audio-male-to-Earphone-headset-microphone-adapter-PC-iphone-/390785856921?pt=US_Cell_Phone_PDA_Cables_Adapters&hash=item5afca6f599
 into the jack near the ear.
  
 Then I'll plug this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/301032500289
 in the mic port of the above adapter.
  
 Then I'll plug this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1m-4-Pole-35mm-Jack-Plug-to-35mm-Socket-Extension-Cable-005820-/380487036027
 into the 3.5mm male of the above adapter.
  
 That cable is then plugged into this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-AUX-Audio-Mic-Splitter-Cable-Earphone-Headphone-Adapter-Female-to-2-Male-/291132593316?pt=AU_Television_Accessories&hash=item43c8dad4a4
  
 Which then plugs into a Xonar U3 which is plugged into my laptop.
  
 Essentially, I'm trying to create a temporary headset setup for my HD688B's for gaming.
 Is this the best way to do this? My main aim is to keep it as one cable, however, my concern is that all these connections will deteriorate the sound quality. The V-Moda Boom Mic won't work as the HD668B's jack near the ear is male not female, hence my elaborate plan. However, if anyone knows of a mic/audio cable which is split at both ends, one dual male one dual female, that'd work too but I don't think it exists.
  
 Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Philips FIDELIO X2
  
 http://www.ep-schroeder-werdohl.de/philips-x2-00-fidelio
  
 same MSRP as the X1, so no worries it seems.


----------



## Change is Good

The big question, however, remains...

Removable pads?!?


----------



## Yethal

brozuf said:


> So I've decided to get the Superlux HD668B headphones and I have a bit of a elaborate plan that I'm not sure will work or if there's a better way of accomplishing what I'm trying to do.
> 
> Basically, I'll be plugging this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-stereo-TRRS-audio-male-to-Earphone-headset-microphone-adapter-PC-iphone-/390785856921?pt=US_Cell_Phone_PDA_Cables_Adapters&hash=item5afca6f599
> ...


 
 Can't You just plug the headphones and the mic directly into the u3?


----------



## pack21

Mic from Chinese store 2.5€ , my chat friends said they sound clean as other good mic headset. Very nice, now I can take mic when i don't use headphones for gaming.


----------



## Brozuf

yethal said:


> Can't You just plug the headphones and the mic directly into the u3?


 
 Then my mic won't be near my mouth. The way my laptop is set up with my monitor make the U3 to far away. Thanks for the suggestion though!


----------



## Yethal

brozuf said:


> Then my mic won't be near my mouth. The way my laptop is set up with my monitor make the U3 to far away. Thanks for the suggestion though!


 
 Or plug the mic into an extension cable and plug the other end into the U3, You original setup has so many unnecessary adapters


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

stillhart said:


> You will likely want an amp if only to get the volume levels up.  If so, the E12 Mont Blanc and Magni are both recommended often around here.  One is a portable (needs to be charged) and one is a desktop (needs to be plugged in all the time).  Get whichever is more convenient for you.




Hey thanks for answering..,, last question- for the one I plug in through USB, can I just plug it into my 360 or ps3? And do you know if I buy the mangi modi stack I could plug that all into the mix amp and have it work and be beneficial?


----------



## Brozuf

yethal said:


> Or plug the mic into an extension cable and plug the other end into the U3, You original setup has so many unnecessary adapters




But that defeats the whole purpose. I'd have two cable and no way of attaching it to my headphones and therefore no way of having the mic near my mouth. I don't want a desktop mic but a temporary headset setup. I'm not sure you're seeing how it'll fit together. Google a photo of the 668B without its cable attached and look at the links I posted and it should make sense. 

My setup won't create a mess of cables but it is made of probably too many connections, hence why posted. To see if maybe someone knew of a cable (dual male dual female possibly?) or way to make it work nicer.

Cheers


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

pack21 said:


> Mic from Chinese store 2.5€ , my chat friends said they sound clean as other good mic headset. Very nice, now I can take mic when i don't use headphones for gaming.




Dude I like the look of that.... I feel like I should have bought a boom mix instead of the clip on.... Still they seem cheap to buy so I could do it if the clip doesn't work out enough


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

"Boom mic


----------



## Yethal

brozuf said:


> But that defeats the whole purpose. I'd have two cable and no way of attaching it to my headphones and therefore no way of having the mic near my mouth. I don't want a desktop mic but a temporary headset setup. I'm not sure you're seeing how it'll fit together. Google a photo of the 668B without its cable attached and look at the links I posted and it should make sense.
> 
> My setup won't create a mess of cables but it is made of probably too many connections, hence why posted. To see if maybe someone knew of a cable (dual male dual female possibly?) or way to make it work nicer.
> 
> Cheers


 
 I know exactly what You need
 http://www.ruggedradios.com/images/aviation/cables-ptt-adapters/GA-EXTENSION/GA-EXTENSION-MD.jpg
 Should work


----------



## MC LeBron 23

Does anyone know the main difference between the Fiio e12 and e18 if I used it with my android for music???


----------



## Brozuf

yethal said:


> I know exactly what You need
> http://www.ruggedradios.com/images/aviation/cables-ptt-adapters/GA-EXTENSION/GA-EXTENSION-MD.jpg
> Should work




That is exactly what I need!!! Thank you so much!

But umm hate to be picky but is there any chance you know where I can get one that's a bit cheaper than $60?  I found one for $39 but shipping was like $20. I'll keep searching.


----------



## Stillhart

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Hey thanks for answering..,, last question- for the one I plug in through USB, can I just plug it into my 360 or ps3? And do you know if I buy the mangi modi stack I could plug that all into the mix amp and have it work and be beneficial?


 
 No, you can't use the Modi (DAC) with the Mixamp (DAC and Amp).  You can only have one DAC in the chain and the Mixamp is the important one because it gives you the virtual surround.  You can use the Magni to amp the Mixamp's output though, which you probably want so you can get the volumes up to a reasonable level for sound-whoring.


----------



## Stillhart

mc lebron 23 said:


> Does anyone know the main difference between the Fiio e12 and e18 if I used it with my android for music???


 
 The E12 is just an amp, the E18 is a DAC and Amp and battery pack.  Depending on your device, you'll likely need to root it to use with the E18, whereas the E12 will just work.


----------



## Yethal

brozuf said:


> That is exactly what I need!!! Thank you so much!
> 
> But umm hate to be picky but is there any chance you know where I can get one that's a bit cheaper than $60?
> 
> ...


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SteelSeries-Siberia-V2-Neckband-Headset-Extension-Cable-3-colors-/231183888705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item35d3a23141
  
 This one should do, and it comes with volume control in case You need stuff like this


----------



## Brozuf

yethal said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SteelSeries-Siberia-V2-Neckband-Headset-Extension-Cable-3-colors-/231183888705?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item35d3a23141
> 
> This one should do, and it comes with volume control in case You need stuff like this




Man where do you find this stuff? Thank you so much! I've been searching for something like this for days and you came along and bam! Exactly what I was looking for haha.

Well I do like multiple options so if you can work your magic and find me one or two more options/brands that would be amazing! I'll try and do the same haha


----------



## Yethal

brozuf said:


> Man where do you find this stuff? Thank you so much! I've been searching for something like this for days and you came along and bam! Exactly what I was looking for haha.
> 
> Well I do like multiple options so if you can work your magic and find me one or two more options/brands that would be amazing! I'll try and do the same haha


 
 It's easy, instead of looking for a headphone extension cable look for a headset extension they have two minijacks on each end. Ebay is Your friend here.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> No, you can't use the Modi (DAC) with the Mixamp (DAC and Amp).  You can only have one DAC in the chain and the Mixamp is the important one because it gives you the virtual surround.  You can use the Magni to amp the Mixamp's output though, which you probably want so you can get the volumes up to a reasonable level for sound-whoring.


 
 It is kinda possible, you connect modi to analog input on the mixamp (combo with mini optical) and use dolby pro logic. It's not the same as normal dolby digital but kinda possible


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> It is kinda possible, you connect modi to analog input on the mixamp (combo with mini optical) and use dolby pro logic. It's not the same as normal dolby digital but kinda possible


 
  
 If you're using the optical Modi, you'll only be getting a stereo signal from the console and sending stereo to the mixamp.  At that point, why bother using the Mixamp at all?  It's a ****ty DAC and a ****ty amp.  
  
 I don't believe the USB Modi will work with a console, and if it does, it definitely doesn't do surround processing either so you have the same problem.
  
 No, there's no point in shoe-horning a Modi into a console setup.  Mixamp and another amp is the best you're going to do unless you want to use an AVR.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> If you're using the optical Modi, you'll only be getting a stereo signal from the console and sending stereo to the mixamp.  At that point, why bother using the Mixamp at all?  It's a ****ty DAC and a ****ty amp.
> 
> I don't believe the USB Modi will work with a console, and if it does, it definitely doesn't do surround processing either so you have the same problem.
> 
> No, there's no point in shoe-horning a Modi into a console setup.  Mixamp and another amp is the best you're going to do unless you want to use an AVR.


 
 USB Modi will work, at least with PS4, so You use Modi as a dac, then you pass analogue signal through mixamp to get quasi surround processing with pro logic and then to an amp, it's ridiculous but could work


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> USB Modi will work, at least with PS4, so You use Modi as a dac, then you pass analogue signal through mixamp to get quasi surround processing with pro logic and then to an amp, it's ridiculous but could work


 
  
 Okay, I guess it could work, sure, but what would be the benefit over not using the Modi and getting real surround processing?


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I can't confirm that as I've never heard the Beyer's.  But I know my E11 isn't that beefy of an amp... I suspect you might want a little more juice.  Then again, Evs says his DT880 is just fine right out of the DSS so you'll probably be fine too.



Yep, my 600 ohm beyers sound fine with the DSS, the DSS has A LOT of volume range (surprisingly). I prefer them when "colored" a little bit for less recessed analytical mids, I do that with a tube amp. The E11 should be okay for gaming with a 250 ohm headphone, but a "serious" desktop amp will improve good audio (music from a disc, Lossless music) even more.




change is good said:


> So, I just went to my mailbox... and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I <3 AxelCloris
^__^


----------



## imac2much

I'm looking at some open headphones to pair with my HP100 once I get to China.  Because both Hifiman and Soundmagic are Chinese companies, I am thinking it will be easier to try out the HE-400 and HP200, though I worry that the HE-400 would be too heavy for me.  I'm also interested in the HE-400i but I am not sure when those are coming out.
  
 My father-in-law swears by Sennheiser and he is going to let me try out his HD650's this weekend, so I am pumped about that   I heard Sennheisers have a lot of "clamping force" so I'm curious how it will feel on my large head, haha.
  
 When it comes to pure comfort, how would you (or anyone else) rate the following open headphones?
  
 Hifiman HE-400
 Soundmagic HP200
 Sennheiser HD600 or HD650
 AKG K712 or K612 with K712 pads
 Beyerdynamic DT990
 Philips Fidelio X1
  
 These are my "end game" headphones (hence the higher price tag), as the HP100 are good enough that I don't think I need an open headphone any time soon.  Also, the huge leap in audio quality from crappy gaming headset to HP100 made me realize that headphones are worth their money... ouch my wallet! 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So, I just went to my mailbox... and...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 What can I say? I was a tad slightly slap happy when I put the envelope together.  Now you've shared my terrible art skills with the world.
  
 Glad I secured the adapter to a sheet of paper, it looks like it could have busted out of the envelope otherwise.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

stillhart said:


> No, you can't use the Modi (DAC) with the Mixamp (DAC and Amp).  You can only have one DAC in the chain and the Mixamp is the important one because it gives you the virtual surround.  You can use the Magni to amp the Mixamp's output though, which you probably want so you can get the volumes up to a reasonable level for sound-whoring.





stillhart said:


> No, you can't use the Modi (DAC) with the Mixamp (DAC and Amp).  You can only have one DAC in the chain and the Mixamp is the important one because it gives you the virtual surround.  You can use the Magni to amp the Mixamp's output though, which you probably want so you can get the volumes up to a reasonable level for sound-whoring.




Ok thanks for clearing that up.... This is all new to me so It's like working in the dark.


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> When it comes to pure comfort, how would you (or anyone else) rate the following open headphones?
> 
> Hifiman HE-400
> Soundmagic HP200
> ...



Of the ones I've heard:
The HE-400 weight wasn't a pain unless in marathon listening sessions, or if you have another headphone to compare against. The headband is really thin & light, all the weight comes from the earcups. It's fascinating and funny how much the sound changes when anything is even 10cm from the earcups, and further. 

Me and my thin-haired head loved the DT880 Beyer headband, the Earpads are deep enough and the metallic/silky velour feels very nice. The DT880 leaks the least and doesn't change sound almost at all if you put your hands near it, works very well if you're laying down on a pillow that isn't too plush. Clamping is moderate with the Premium headphones, these are fine but I doubt I'd like the Pro models that are less expensive.

The flat but harder headband of the K712 is very supple and does a great job conforming to my headshape, a plush baby's seatbelt cover takes care of any "hard feelings" about the headband. The K712's velour isn't silky but it is indeed soft and non-irritating, the memory foam is deep but a "just-right" stiffness that is nice with LONG listening sessions. The K712 is so very slightly heavier than the DT880, but with my headband cover I find comfort to be equal. Clamping is light but solid IMO perfect. I think the detachable cable could easily be considered a plus for comfort.
The K612 I actually felt to be slightly more comfortable to me than the K712; I didn't need the pad/cover on the headband because it was a little softer, the velour is the same, the Earpad depth was shallower but that really didn't bother my ears. I forget if there was a weight difference, but if there was the K612 would be lighter.

All the above is observations with my own opinions added, pad depth and headband may bother you less/more. For example, Mad Lust Envy hates pleather and thus the Beyer headband causes sweat for him (warmer environ in Florida probably doesn't help), and he had the reverse opinion about which AKG headband was more comfortable.


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> When it comes to pure comfort, how would you (or anyone else) rate the following open headphones?
> 
> Hifiman HE-400
> Soundmagic HP200
> ...


 
  
 The only ones of those I've used is the X1.  I have the Q701, which is similar to the other AKG's but has the infamous bumps.
  
 X1 - Decently comfortable.  The pads are soft, fuzzy memory foam and they're comfortable for as long as you like.  I find them to be a little warm (temperature, not sound), but not closed-headphone warm.  I also think it's a bit on the heavy side, though nothing serious.  Clamping can be an issue for some, but I heard you can gently bend the metal to relieve the clamping a bit.
  
 Q701 - Very comfortable.  The pads are soft and fuzzy and very deep and wide.  They feel super light and airy and cool when switching from the X1.  The headband bumps are an issue for some.  For me, they can become an issue after a couple hours straight, but shifting them forward or back a little relieves the pressure just fine.  I've recently put the baby carseat pad on it and the discomfort is gone completely.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> What can I say? I was a tad slightly slap happy when I put the envelope together.  Now you've shared my terrible art skills with the world.
> 
> Glad I secured the adapter to a sheet of paper, it looks like it could have busted out of the envelope otherwise.




Smart move taping it to the sheet. It was busting out of the envelope when it arrived.

You're a wonderful artist!


----------



## Change is Good

imac2much said:


> Haha I was wondering this as well.  It's funny when people think they can insult others just because they tell them not to take it personally
> 
> On topic, I'm looking at some open headphones to pair with my HP100 once I get to China.  Because both Hifiman and Soundmagic are Chinese companies, I am thinking it will be easier to try out the HE-400 and HP200, though I worry that the HE-400 would be too heavy for me.  I'm also interested in the HE-400i but I am not sure when those are coming out.
> 
> ...




Go for the one in bold print!


----------



## AxelCloris

I agree with Evshrug; let's get back on topic. I don't want to see this thread closed.


----------



## Change is Good

Did I mention *imac2much* should get the HP200? If I did... I'm mentioning it again 

Edit: I like tacos


----------



## Stillhart

Destiny beta is back up early!  I'll be on the Xbone this time.  If anyone wants to add me, my XBL name is the same as my name here.  We'll go have fun killing aliens together.  <3


----------



## imac2much

Thank you all for your recommendations!
Hopefully I will be able to try the hp200 and he400i in china once my wife and I finish our move. It's good to know that the he400 really isn't TOO heavy and i read that the he400i should be even lighter. 

I still have never tried the suspension style of headband that the x1 and akg headphones have so I'm not sure if they would fit me well. 

I agree with MLE, I hate pleather because it makes my ears swear, but then again I'm in Houston  next month I will be in a city that averages winters of -20 F so maybe I won't mind pleather so much.


----------



## AxelCloris

Free copy of Hitman: Codename 47 on Steam for the first person to claim it.
  
 https://www.humblebundle.com/gift?key=yV5n5R7RhmSqBc2E


----------



## Change is Good

Agent 47 is one if my favorite game characters of all time. I really hope Square Enix announces a next gen Hitman, soon.


----------



## AxelCloris

Agreed. I adore the Hitman franchise. Can't wait for the next generation of stealthy gameplay to get here. I'm craving the new tactical squad-based Rainbow Six something fierce.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Agreed. I adore the Hitman franchise. Can't wait for the next generation of stealthy gameplay to get here. I'm craving the new tactical squad-based Rainbow Six something fierce.


 
 Maybe I should check out the latest humble bundle... I just have so many of those games already...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Maybe I should check out the latest humble bundle... I just have so many of those games already...


 
  
 I buy pretty much every bundle. They support good charities, GamesAid and Make-A-Wish this time, and I usually get some games out of it as well. I get a lot of duplicates so I usually pass out the codes when I can.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I buy pretty much every bundle. They support good charities, GamesAid and Make-A-Wish this time, and I usually get some games out of it as well. I get a lot of duplicates so I usually pass out the codes when I can.


 
 I usually do too.  This time though, I'm $13k in the hole (hooray, home ownership!).  And I have a pretty hefty backlog of previous HB games.  And there are like a zillion good games coming out starting in Sep.
  
 Man I'm glad I have a sweet headphone setup for all this gaming.  Thanks again, MLE, Evs, Axel, Change, Chico and everyone who's been helpful in this thread!  My wallet and wife hate you, but that's okay.


----------



## Change is Good

You're very welcome, Stillhart. Glad you are enjoying the experience. I think I deserve the most hate, though 

So, what are your plans with the M-Stage now that you are loving the 15?


----------



## pack21

Interesting thread, i have followed through the last year or so, and I saw here the best headphone for gaming had several hypermarkets, there were some months of MA900, the month of X1, the month of K612, Q702 and now HP100/200 ..... Which will be the next best headphone for gaming?


----------



## Change is Good

pack21 said:


> Interesting thread, i have followed through the last year or so, and I saw here the best headphone for gaming had several hypermarkets, there were some months of MA900, the month of X1, the month of K612, Q702 and now HP100/200 ..... Which will be the next best headphone for gaming?




Ha! You think this thread has an influential hypermarket? Try the "Discovery" thread...


----------



## pack21

change is good said:


> Ha! You think this thread has an influential hypermarket? Try the "Discovery" thread...




I don't want spend more money swimming on hyper beach, i'm quite satisfied with fantastic MA900/Mixamp/C5amp. Now my next mark will be something like HD800 for gaming/movies/music, has anyone played with them, what's the opinion?


----------



## Evshrug

I think Fegefeurer has owned the HD800, he's in here every few days. From reviews, I'd bet that the soundstage and competitive advantage would be great, but gun sounds could get fatiguing and you might get frustrated with how the bit-quality of games kinda "caps out."

I'd like to add that the MA900 was great, I really liked some parts of it (and some part of me is still looking for magical mids like that again), but it didn't replace my q701's and shared similar strength's as what I went to the AD700 for. These DT880 are god-mode analytical, but they lack too much mids and I don't think they'll stay. I still have my Q701, I also picked up the K712 as a refinement of that formula, but I respect the K612 and if I was budget crunched and had to start over I would first buy a K612 as an all-around headphone. The HE-400 never caught on for my tastes.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm telling you, Ev! You really should give the HP100 a try... or even the new HP150.

P.S. Stop holding sentimental value and put up some of that gear for sale, already!


----------



## Sam21

I don't think HP100 can beat A700x.


----------



## Change is Good

Based on what I've read about the A700x... yuck... especially comfort wise...


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> I think Fegefeurer has owned the HD800, he's in here every few days. From reviews, I'd bet that the soundstage and competitive advantage would be great, but gun sounds could get fatiguing and you might get frustrated with how the bit-quality of games kinda "caps out."
> 
> I'd like to add that the MA900 was great, I really liked some parts of it (and some part of me is still looking for magical mids like that again), but it didn't replace my q701's and shared similar strength's as what I went to the AD700 for. These DT880 are god-mode analytical, but they lack too much mids and I don't think they'll stay. I still have my Q701, I also picked up the K712 as a refinement of that formula, but I respect the K612 and if I was budget crunched and had to start over I would first buy a K612 as an all-around headphone. The HE-400 never caught on for my tastes.


 

 If you want more magical and even better mids than the MA900, I would look at either the HD 600 or HD 650. The lush richness of their mids and vocals is just a pleasure to listen to. It took a few auditions of them for me to really like their sound but now after hearing them more, I think the HD 650 is going to be my next headphone and it may replace my K712 as my main headphone. The MA900 was too lacking in refinement for me sadly.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> You're very welcome, Stillhart. Glad you are enjoying the experience. I think I deserve the most hate, though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been meaning to post it on the classifieds, just been busy.  There's always talk about it in the Q701 thread so I'm sure someone will pick it up relatively quickly.
  


evshrug said:


> I think Fegefeurer has owned the HD800, he's in here every few days. From reviews, I'd bet that the soundstage and competitive advantage would be great, but gun sounds could get fatiguing and you might get frustrated with how the bit-quality of games kinda "caps out."
> 
> I'd like to add that the MA900 was great, I really liked some parts of it (and some part of me is still looking for magical mids like that again), but it didn't replace my q701's and shared similar strength's as what I went to the AD700 for. These DT880 are god-mode analytical, but they lack too much mids and I don't think they'll stay. I still have my Q701, I also picked up the K712 as a refinement of that formula, but I respect the K612 and if I was budget crunched and had to start over I would first buy a K612 as an all-around headphone. The HE-400 never caught on for my tastes.


 
  
 I've heard that the HD800 can be really picky with gear pairings.  I wonder if some of the fatiguing highs could be compensated for...


----------



## kman1211

stillhart said:


> I've been meaning to post it on the classifieds, just been busy.  There's always talk about it in the Q701 thread so I'm sure someone will pick it up relatively quickly.
> 
> 
> I've heard that the HD800 can be really picky with gear pairings.  I wonder if some of the fatiguing highs could be compensated for...


 

 The HD 800 is picky and takes effort to get to sound right. I've heard the HD 800 stock without fatiguing highs and a good bass response, the easiest way is probably to get a tube amp and tube roll and/or hook it up to warmish and darkish sounding gear, but it can't be too warm or dark it may hurt the soundstaging, so it's a careful balancing act to get it right. I personally don't think it's worth the trouble as I always found it a boring and overly technical listen regardless. Although if one is a soundstage lover and gets most musical pleasure from the soundstage and imaging or someone who likes a really technical sounding headphone it's probably the ideal headphone for them. I personally get the most listening pleasure from tone and musicality.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, this picky and synergy thing surely made a few millions in very few pockets.
  
 You don't need the HD 800 if you're just gaming. Total waste. If you play games, watch movies and music then yes, very recommended.
  
 I recommend the HD 800 if you play on the PC as it allows for much better setup ideas and combinations and generally much cleaner SQ. On consoles you could have a similar clean experience if you play in stereo since you can bypass the Mixamp and others and use your regular DAC/AMP to the fullest. Nobody here will recommend it though for good reasons.
 This will change the day we get a VST device that outputs binaural stereo like Creative/ASUS soundcards do. 
  
 A few "cheaper" DAC/AMPs or setups I liked with the HD 800 were Matrix M-Stage + X-Fi Titanium HD, Asus Xonar Essence One (fed optical with a Z and THD). Fantastic setups actually, already giving you quite the HD 800 experience.
  
 I don't see any problems with getting fatigued unless you use CMSS-3D and have to experience bad sample quality like Bioshock Infinite. SBX is very fine and imo the very best out of all others for the HD 800. Both a wonderful match. 
  
 I'll list you a few headphones that are more fatigueing to my ears from easierst to worst:
  
 DT880 600 borderline (to fatigueing or too bright) but very slightly towards the good side
 DT990 600 borderline, slightly towards the bad side
 T90 unfortunately badly balanced up top, noticable worse than the other two, feels like an overlooked flaw, a pity as it has a superb soundstage 
 Pro 2900 - can become pretty painful, exciting at first, especially for its kickbass but sooner or later you'll sell it
 Pro 900 - definitely painful and superbly fatigueing
  
 If you can stand the DT880 600 then the HD 800 is easy for you. Don't be afraid about "picky" and synergy. A "lower cost" setup will already give you more than any other headphone could replace or do better. The biggest and most accurate soundstage of them all, no matter if games, movies, music (it's especially exciting with music), a very well extended bass that has tactility (sp?) and impact, enormous detail while being very very clean with ultra low distortion.
  
 The only problem is VST devices and digital outputs, that's why it's best on PC (technical reasons, not speaking about gaming choices)
  
 Any other headphones? Well, TH-900 for marvellous (sub) bass, great soundstage (though smaller), very clean and detailed and runs pretty good off the Mixamp alone and works very well with DHP. Unfortunately very expensive. 
  
 I can see the HE-560 being another "upgrade" option but my time with it was limited and only spent with music (I really liked it).


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

I just got my Q701s in the mail (but in the wrong color 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




), is it worth looking into the K712s if I can get them for a decent price? Or should I just stick with the Q701s for now? Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> I just got my Q701s in the mail (but in the wrong color
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Assuming you are fine with the sound of the Q701, the price difference between the two should really drive your decision.  If you're at all budget-oriented, I personally find it hard to justify the upgrade (hence why I still have the Q701).  If you really don't care about the money and just want the best, then yeah, get the K712 for sure.  
  
 It's just that the Q701 is so cheap now that you're getting into serious diminishing returns by upgrading.  Based on everything I've read, yes the K712 better in many ways.  But, depending on how much you got your Q's for, it could cost more than twice as much!  That's a tough sell for me.


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> Any other headphones? Well, TH-900 for marvellous (sub) bass, great soundstage (though smaller), very clean and detailed and runs pretty good off the Mixamp alone and works very well with DHP. Unfortunately very expensive.
> 
> I can see the HE-560 being another "upgrade" option but my time with it was limited and only spent with music (I really liked it).


 
 The HE-560 is a lot cheaper than the HD800.  If you're considering that to be even a side-grade, that's a pretty good value...


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> Assuming you are fine with the sound of the Q701, the price difference between the two should really drive your decision.  If you're at all budget-oriented, I personally find it hard to justify the upgrade (hence why I still have the Q701).  If you really don't care about the money and just want the best, then yeah, get the K712 for sure.
> 
> It's just that the Q701 is so cheap now that you're getting into serious diminishing returns by upgrading.  Based on everything I've read, yes the K712 better in many ways.  But, depending on how much you got your Q's for, it could cost more than twice as much!  That's a tough sell for me.


 

 Awesome. I'm good with the 701s. I guess this is the dreaded upgrade fever I keep hearing about. Lol It would cost me double to upgrade. Now if I had only gotten the right color. I got white, wanted black because I feel the white will get extremely dirty really fast and be even harder to clean. Anyone with the white 701s want to chime in and ease my nerves a bit?


----------



## Evshrug

kman1211 said:


> If you want more magical and even better mids than the MA900, I would look at either the HD 600 or HD 650. The lush richness of their mids and vocals is just a pleasure to listen to. It took a few auditions of them for me to really like their sound but now after hearing them more, I think the HD 650 is going to be my next headphone and it may replace my K712 as my main headphone. The MA900 was too lacking in refinement for me sadly.



The MA900 was refined enough for me, but it took awhile and a few specific songs to make me feel "the magic." It's a great gaming headphone, but for my all-rounder, I wanted a little more extension. Maybe even a bit of wear on the drivers so things aren't TOO tight 



stillhart said:


> The HE-560 is a lot cheaper than the HD800.  If you're considering that to be even a side-grade, that's a pretty good value...



I think Feg was recommending an upgrade for me that has a lot of mids. Nothing at all wrong with my AKG's, but the little more tight (possibly restrained? Analytical is most often used) all around DT880 I got ended up not offering complimentary alternate character from my K712 (which I am keeping). So an HD800 sounds like a mix/upgrade of the DT880 and K712 strengths, but not something different really. 

Last night I had a lot of fun playing Destiny (again) with my DSS and DT880, seems to pretty obviously dampen distortions in the DSS (I'd attribute the less picky nature of the DT880 to it's 600 ohm impedance, though an amp's "color" is still a factor), made me want to give it more of a chance, but if someone was willing to trade an HD600 I'd have to consider it.



mista freeze 74 said:


> Awesome. I'm good with the 701s. I guess this is the dreaded upgrade fever I keep hearing about. Lol It would cost me double to upgrade. Now if I had only gotten the right color. I got white, wanted black because I feel the white will get extremely dirty really fast and be even harder to clean. Anyone with the white 701s want to chime in and ease my nerves a bit? :wink_face:




Dude, the whites are my fav! Personal tastes vary, but beauty is more universally defined by contrasts, and the storm trooper white Q701 with light/minimal green accents make the most cohesive "sense" to me of the three options. It's not garish.

I've also had mine for over 2 years, I don't take it outside the house often but it has not a mark on it. The ability to replace cables have saved it once already.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

evshrug said:


> I've also had mine for over 2 years, I don't take it outside the house often but it has not a mark on it. The ability to replace cables have saved it once already.


 
  
 Thank you. I really like the white now that I look at them, just super nervous they will get really dirty. I always love white products until they turn that dingy dish cloth white. Lol How have you managed to keep them so clean, besides not taking them out the house (my plan as well)?


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> Thank you. I really like the white now that I look at them, just super nervous they will get really dirty. I always love white products until they turn that dingy dish cloth white. Lol How have you managed to keep them so clean, besides not taking them out the house (my plan as well)?


 
  
 Wash your hands more often?


----------



## Evshrug

mista freeze 74 said:


> Thank you. I really like the white now that I look at them, just super nervous they will get really dirty. I always love white products until they turn that dingy dish cloth white. Lol How have you managed to keep them so clean, besides not taking them out the house (my plan as well)?



Well, it's smooth plastic, so dust just wipes off and it doesn't get dingy like plastic or a vinyl wrap. Don't leave it in the sun, don't spill drinks on it, and it's basically maintenance-free. I just pick loose hairs off the pads sometimes.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> Wash your hands more often?


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Well, it's smooth plastic, so dust just wipes off and it doesn't get dingy like plastic or a vinyl wrap. Don't leave it in the sun, don't spill drinks on it, and it's basically maintenance-free. I just pick loose hairs off the pads sometimes.


 
  





 Thanks guys. First set of real cans, just want them to last me a while.


----------



## Evshrug

mista freeze 74 said:


> Thanks guys. First set of real cans, just want them to last me a while.



No problem my man, I can tell that you are invested in making a satisfying choice and that you'll put a lot of attention into taking care of them. I still love mine, I hope you are blown away by yours!

(Pretty confident you will be!)


----------



## Change is Good

^I'm still lost at why you still have them with the K712 under the same roof... :/

Guess you really do hold sentimental value to some gear


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> The MA900 was refined enough for me, but it took awhile and a few specific songs to make me feel "the magic." It's a great gaming headphone, but for my all-rounder, I wanted a little more extension. Maybe even a bit of wear on the drivers so things aren't TOO tight
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 My ears must be weird with the MA900, I spent a couple days listening to it again not long ago on a few different sources and it was still lacking in refinement to me, the mids are grainy or something. If you want a better all-rounder the HD 600 is a great option, the HD 650 as well if you want more warmth and smoother/darker treble with just a tad more refinement.
 I am keeping my K712 as well, it's my more analytical all-rounder, I haven't really noticed any genres or situations it does wrong, but often I crave something lusher and more intimate, especially in the mids, which is where the HD 650 comes into play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> ^I'm still lost at why you still have them with the K712 under the same roof... :/
> 
> Guess you really do hold sentimental value to some gear




I can't believe he still has the Q701 he bought from me, lol.

And I agree. I think in his situation, I would just sell the Q701, and order some Q701 pads for the K712 so he can basically have both headphones with a simple pad swap.

As for the 650, I love it, but it isnt all too great for gaming. It doesn't work as well as some others. Positional accuracy is a bit wonky with the 650. The 650 though is among my faves for all around use though. After loosening the clamp, the 650 is basically one of those headphones that I would use as my only headphone. The 650 has mids that I prefer pretty much over every other headphone that isn't the LCD2.


----------



## idrr

hi
 i'm looking for q701 + creative z+antlion ModMic
 is it good for gaming 
 what is better than q701 for gaming
 and thanks
 ps:sorry for pm i'm new here i didn't read the note in first sorry


----------



## appsmarsterx

idrr said:


> hi
> i'm looking for q701 + creative z+antlion ModMic
> is it good for gaming
> what is better than q701 for gaming
> ...




q701 is the perfect gaming all-rounder, if the headband bumps not bothering you. otherwise ma900 if you value comfort.


----------



## idrr

but there are better than the q701
  like the K712 Pro is it better​


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K712 is more all rounder-ish, with more musicality and bass. It's also considerably more comfortable due to the headband not being bumpy and uncomfortable. If you can afford the K712 Pro, by all means... not much that there is to complain about it.



So guys, thanks to AxelCloris who gave me a steam key, I've been absolutely hooked on Hitman: Absolution. I believe this game was on PS Plus for PS3, but I dunno, I didn't give it a real chance. Now... I can't believe it took me this long. I like it so much, I may end up playing the older ones at some point. I loved the old ninja Tenchu games where stealth was key, so this brings back those kinds of feels. 

This is my FIRST Hitman game. Yeah, I know.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> The K712 is more all rounder-ish, with more musicality and bass. It's also considerably more comfortable due to the headband not being bumpy and uncomfortable. If you can afford the K712 Pro, by all means... not much that there is to complain about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You know, Absolution is a refreshment to the series, lots of things in the game work differently than in previous games (disguises, checkpoints etc). Also it does surprisingly good positional audio


----------



## idrr

so the q701 is the best choice for gaming


----------



## Knel

Can any one tell me what i need to buy to get my mic working on ps4 with my dss heres my setup
superlux hd668b dss and zalman zmmic1 microphone
Cant get my mic working no matter what i try 
I plugged mic into ps4 controller dosent work plugged it into dss dosent work think i need to buy asomthing or a diffrent mic 
Could someone who has used a mic with dss on ps4 tell me how they got it working and what mic and what cable i need
Cheers


----------



## Yethal

kinda off topic
 http://www.astrogaming.com/usb-tx-%28dolby-transmitter%29/3AM50-PCW9X-975.html
 Anybody with a50s want to try this out?


----------



## Murder Mike

mad lust envy said:


> So guys, thanks to AxelCloris who gave me a steam key, I've been absolutely hooked on Hitman: Absolution. I believe this game was on PS Plus for PS3, but I dunno, I didn't give it a real chance. Now... I can't believe it took me this long. I like it so much, I may end up playing the older ones at some point. I loved the old ninja Tenchu games where stealth was key, so this brings back those kinds of feels.


 
  
 I tried playing Codename 47 recently and just couldn't do it. The controls and interface were very...off putting and didn't have a good feel. I haven't tried Silent Assassin yet, but if it feels similar, I would also avoid it. Blood Money is worth playing from what I've heard. If you like stealth, you should try out the old Thief games. Dues Ex and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines also have decent stealth play if you're into RPGs.


----------



## AxelCloris

murder mike said:


> I tried playing Codename 47 recently and just couldn't do it. The controls and interface were very...off putting and didn't have a good feel. I haven't tried Silent Assassin yet, but if it feels similar, I would also avoid it. Blood Money is worth playing from what I've heard. If you like stealth, you should try out the old Thief games. Dues Ex and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines also have decent stealth play if you're into RPGs.


 
  
 Unfortunately since _Codename 47_ was the first game it didn't handle very easily. Eventually I got the feel for it when paired with the Xbox 360 controller (I didn't play it when it first came out). _Silent Assassin_ was a big step forward but there were still some sticking points. It wasn't until _Contracts_ that the gameplay felt it had reached a nice place. _Contracts_ was first Hitman game I picked up and it's still a lot of fun.
  
 Also, for anyone wanting a different perspective on the franchise, _Hitman GO_ on iOS is pretty damned fun too.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> I can't believe he still has the Q701 he bought from me, lol.
> 
> And I agree. I think in his situation, I would just sell the Q701, and order some Q701 pads for the K712 so he can basically have both headphones with a simple pad swap.
> 
> As for the 650, I love it, but it isnt all too great for gaming. It doesn't work as well as some others. Positional accuracy is a bit wonky with the 650. The 650 though is among my faves for all around use though. After loosening the clamp, the 650 is basically one of those headphones that I would use as my only headphone. The 650 has mids that I prefer pretty much over every other headphone that isn't the LCD2.


 

 I'm not too surprised it's all that great for gaming, but the HD 650 should be decent for gaming at least. I'm getting it more as a music listening headphone personally. The LCD-2 does have wonderful mids, there are only really a few headphones with better mids, sadly I find the headphone is mostly held back by comfort. If it was more comfortable I would be likely be saving up for the LCD-2, they also seemed to of changed the sound with the new fazored versions. I gather the Oppo PM-1 is a good alternative to the non-fazored LCD-2 though.


----------



## Murder Mike

axelcloris said:


> Unfortunately since _Codename 47_ was the first game it didn't handle very easily. Eventually I got the feel for it when paired with the Xbox 360 controller (I didn't play it when it first came out). _Silent Assassin_ was a big step forward but there were still some sticking points. It wasn't until _Contracts_ that the gameplay felt it had reached a nice place. _Contracts_ was first Hitman game I picked up and it's still a lot of fun.


 
  
 That's good to know. I don't have Contracts, but I do have Silent Assassin and Blood Money, so maybe I'll try them again some day.


----------



## Stillhart

Jeez, you guys are going to make me grab this Humble Bundle aren't you?  I am going to have a ton of extra keys.  I'll post here to see if anyone wants em...
  
 Oh and I've been waffling on Hitman GO since it came to Android.  But if Axel votes for it, I might have to grab it.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Jeez, you guys are going to make me grab this Humble Bundle aren't you?  I am going to have a ton of extra keys.  I'll post here to see if anyone wants em...
> 
> Oh and I've been waffling on Hitman GO since it came to Android.  But if Axel votes for it, I might have to grab it.


 
  
 I was given the game to play during one of my press meetings at PAX East this year. I have to say that I wasn't expecting much but once I completed a few levels the game really became addicting. And I love the challenge modes where you try not to alert or try not to take out any guards.


----------



## imac2much

Before I found Head-Fi, I was a regular at a certain video game forum that focused on procuring games and software as cheap as possible (though always through legal means and never through piracy, so usually this was through bundle deals, Steam sales, etc).  I enjoyed that forum a lot, but it seemed like most regulars enjoyed pooping on games, especially if they were popular.  Overall the atmosphere was overall cynical and negative, and hearing such enjoyment over Destiny, Hitman Absolution and other games here is truly a breath of fresh air.  Video games and music are a hobby we are supposed to enjoy, but sometimes I feel like people forget this and want to make sure other people know that the game THEY like is actually a horrible pile of manure.
  
 In other news, I just finished The Last of Us Ep 5 and The Walking Dead Ep 4 the other day.  I don't think their audio mix is anything to write home about, so my new headphones didn't improve my experience tremendously, but I still enjoyed the more immersive feeling I had in the world.  I plan to play Homefront or Metal Gear Rising next, both of which should hopefully offer a better audio mix for me to enjoy the HP100's with


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I was given the game to play during one of my press meetings at PAX East this year. I have to say that I wasn't expecting much but once I completed a few levels the game really became addicting. And I love the challenge modes where you try not to alert or try not to take out any guards.


 
  
 Oh speaking of which, anyone else going to PAX Prime this year?  We can have a mini Head-fi meet!  This will be my 6th one in 7 years (missed one when my son was born, but he hasn't missed any!)


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Oh speaking of which, anyone else going to PAX Prime this year?  We can have a mini Head-fi meet!  This will be my 6th one in 7 years (missed one when my son was born, but he hasn't missed any!)


 
  
 I was planning on it but I had to cancel earlier this month. Unfortunately it came down to a lack of funds due to the issues with the house. I may still be making my way out to Seattle later this year. Currently my next planned event is RMAF in October.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I can't believe he still has the Q701 he bought from me, lol.
> 
> And I agree. I think in his situation, I would just sell the Q701, and order some Q701 pads for the K712 so he can basically have both headphones with a simple pad swap.
> 
> As for the 650, I love it, but it isnt all too great for gaming. It doesn't work as well as some others. Positional accuracy is a bit wonky with the 650. The 650 though is among my faves for all around use though. After loosening the clamp, the 650 is basically one of those headphones that I would use as my only headphone. The 650 has mids that I prefer pretty much over every other headphone that isn't the LCD2.




I'm afraid you won't be my friend anymore if I sell your headphones.

No seriously, the Q701 is... kinda... fascinating me right now. Not sure if it's burn in or the pads or what, but the bass loosened up and it is pretty strong. I know you had these for a month or two, and decided burn-in doesn't make a difference, but side-by-side these Q701 have bigger bass than the newer K712. That's why I've never done any mods to it.

Plus, I have this fantasy that someday I can share the headphone experience with someone at the same time. Weird with splitscreen games, but doable, and music and movies. But yeah, someday I'll pare down to one or two.

I'd mostly have the HD650 or 600 for relaxing to music.


----------



## Change is Good

Switch the pads and see which has more bass. I bet your Q701 pads may have a lot of lotion and creams from your face, built up inside, from all its use over the years.


----------



## RXShadow

For all-around usage, is there anything other than K712 that would probably suit well? I'm assuming the X1 might be one of them, but I'm trying to look into other alternatives.
  
 Also, how does the K701/K702 compare to them?
  
 Main reason why I'm asking this is I'm looking to get some new cans, but the K712 and X1 are kind of hard for me to go by. If there's any other ones that can match or exceed them, I might just go for them instead since they're easier for me to get. I'm currently using the HD558, which is great, but trying to look something a little more fun than that if any.


----------



## Change is Good

rxshadow said:


> *For all-around usage, is there anything other than K712 that would probably suit well?* I'm assuming the X1 might be one of them, but I'm trying to look into other alternatives.
> 
> Also, how does the K701/K702 compare to them?
> 
> Main reason why I'm asking this is I'm looking to get some new cans, but the K712 and X1 are kind of hard for me to go by. If there's any other ones that can match or exceed them, I might just go for them instead since they're easier for me to get. I'm currently using the HD558, which is great, but trying to look something a little more fun than that if any.


 
  
 SoundMAGIC HP200, AKG K612 PRO


----------



## LordCheeseballs

Hey guys!
  
 I'm new to head-fi and this thread and i've been checking it out since i want to buy a pair of headphones for gaming/music. I've decided on the akg k712 pro's and i'm going to pair it up with the astro mixamp 2013 with my ps4 and a clip-on mic. Is it necessary to get an amp for the k712 and if i do (thinking of getting the schiit magni), would i benefit from the schiit stack (amp+dac) and will it work with the mixamp? If i get a splitter for the digital output on the ps4 wil i hear any difference?


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> SoundMAGIC HP200, AKG K612 PRO




Any idea where the dt990s fall in with the 2 listed above? Similar?


----------



## Stillhart

lordcheeseballs said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm new to head-fi and this thread and i've been checking it out since i want to buy a pair of headphones for gaming/music. I've decided on the akg k712 pro's and i'm going to pair it up with the astro mixamp 2013 with my ps4 and a clip-on mic. Is it necessary to get an amp for the k712 and if i do (thinking of getting the schiit magni), would i benefit from the schiit stack (amp+dac) and will it work with the mixamp? If i get a splitter for the digital output on the ps4 wil i hear any difference?


 
  
 This exact question was just asked a page or two back.  You can't use the Modi with the Mixamp (technically you can, but there's no reason to as you'll lose surround).  Your choice is better sounding stereo or surround with a sub-par DAC.  Many people, myself included, think that there's no much point in putting a good DAC on for gaming anyhow since the source material will tend to be not great.  Save your money and just stick with the Magni.
  
 As to whether you need that, get the setup without it first.  If you can get the volume levels to where you want without the Magni then you're golden.  If you need more volume, you know what to do.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

stillhart said:


> This exact question was just asked a page or two back.  You can't use the Modi with the Mixamp (technically you can, but there's no reason to as you'll lose surround).  Your choice is better sounding stereo or surround with a sub-par DAC.  Many people, myself included, think that there's no much point in putting a good DAC on for gaming anyhow since the source material will tend to be not great.  Save your money and just stick with the Magni.
> 
> As to whether you need that, get the setup without it first.  If you can get the volume levels to where you want without the Magni then you're golden.  If you need more volume, you know what to do.




This is funny because I was reading his sentences and thought that I has wrote it... Funny how similar we are in regards to all this. Anyways! I thought that Madlustenvy wrote before that you WON'T loose 7.1 once it's put into play. If this is the case I would consider the Stack if it would take over the DAC from the mix amp and be better


----------



## Stillhart

bunnynamedfrank said:


> This is funny because I was reading his sentences and thought that I has wrote it... Funny how similar we are in regards to all this. Anyways! I thought that Madlustenvy wrote before that you WON'T loose 7.1 once it's put into play. If this is the case I would consider the Stack if it would take over the DAC from the mix amp and be better


 
  
 No you can't use the Modi with the Mixamp and retain surround otherwise everyone would be doing it.  The Modi is great if you want to listen to music right from your device (console or PC) but not for surround.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Hey guys, 
  
 Im wondering do the pre 2013 (older 2010/2011 year) wired mixamps work with the PS4 for sound/chat? 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

bunnynamedfrank said:


> This is funny because I was reading his sentences and thought that I has wrote it... Funny how similar we are in regards to all this. Anyways! I thought that Madlustenvy wrote before that you WON'T loose 7.1 once it's put into play. If this is the case I would consider the Stack if it would take over the DAC from the mix amp and be better




The Magni is an amp, the Modi and Mixamp both are DACs (Digital to Analogue Converter), they take digital audio from your source (Console or PC) and turn it into analogue for amps and headphones. If you want accurate surround you have to have the Mixamp (Processor/DAC/Amp unit) plugged into the console's optical output. The Modi is higher quality but it doesn't have the surround processing capability (Dolby 7.1 to stereo Dolby Headphone Virtual Surround) of the Mixamp.

It's not just you, it's generally the same question every other day, which is why some of us who've been here awhile talk about new games or new headphones we're trying.



Jason Bourne,
Pretty much all the Mixamps will work the same way with PS4, you buy a Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable:
http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/ps4-chat-cable/464
And plug that inbetween the controller and Mixamp.

The Recon3D USB from creative is actually able to use it's USB to get chat audio from the console itself (a more streamline'd option IMO), but any headphone over 32 ohms you'll have less piercing highs if you plug an amp into the output of the Recon3D USB.


----------



## AxelCloris

I need to demo a pair of the Soundmagic HP200. I've read that they have a similar tonality to the HE-400 and I very much like the hifimans. Plus the HP200 have the benefit of being compatible (after a little modding) with the BoomPro so portable gaming would be simpler, though not so much with my home setup.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> The Magni is an amp, the Modi and Mixamp both are DACs (Digital to Analogue Converter), they take digital audio from your source (Console or PC) and turn it into analogue for amps and headphones. If you want accurate surround you have to have the Mixamp (Processor/DAC/Amp unit) plugged into the console's optical output. The Modi is higher quality but it doesn't have the surround processing capability (Dolby 7.1 to stereo Dolby Headphone Virtual Surround) of the Mixamp.
> 
> It's not just you, it's generally the same question every other day, which is why some of us who've been here awhile talk about new games or new headphones we're trying.
> 
> ...


 

 If you have a pc, you can get a stx which has a dac and has dolby headphone!


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> If you have a pc, you can get a stx which has a dac and has dolby headphone!




If you have a PC, there are many more options. The only thing is he specifically said he needed a PS4 solution.


----------



## Yethal

lordcheeseballs said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I'm new to head-fi and this thread and i've been checking it out since i want to buy a pair of headphones for gaming/music. I've decided on the akg k712 pro's and i'm going to pair it up with the astro mixamp 2013 with my ps4 and a clip-on mic. Is it necessary to get an amp for the k712 and if i do (thinking of getting the schiit magni), would i benefit from the schiit stack (amp+dac) and will it work with the mixamp? If i get a splitter for the digital output on the ps4 wil i hear any difference?


 
 Mixamp itself is a dac so only a Magni will be necessary, You can use either the mixamp or the modi but not both at the same time, If You want to play in stereo go with modi


----------



## RXShadow

change is good said:


> SoundMAGIC HP200, AKG K612 PRO


 
 Thanks. I'll see if I can I look into them too. The K612 having non-detachable is quite discouraging though.


----------



## Jason Bourne

evshrug said:


> Jason Bourne,
> Pretty much all the Mixamps will work the same way with PS4, you buy a Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable:
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/cables-parts/ps4-chat-cable/464
> And plug that inbetween the controller and Mixamp.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.


----------



## Yethal

jason bourne said:


> Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.


 
 Wired mixamp can use usb for chat too


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> If you have a PC, there are many more options. The only thing is he specifically said he needed a PS4 solution.


 

 Just saying mate!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I need to demo a pair of the Soundmagic HP200. I've read that they have a similar tonality to the HE-400 and I very much like the hifimans. Plus the HP200 have the benefit of being compatible (after a little modding) with the BoomPro so portable gaming would be simpler, though not so much with my home setup.




You trying to give me a hint? 




rxshadow said:


> Thanks. I'll see if I can I look into them too. The K612 having non-detachable is quite discouraging though.




Then the HP200 is the way to go!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> You trying to give me a hint?


 
  
 Nah, just saying at some point I need to track down a pair and give them a good demo. I may pick one up from Amazon and a pair of pads if the price ever drops on them.


----------



## jimador48

Should I get the 558 or spend the extra $100 for the akg 545?


----------



## Stillhart

jimador48 said:


> Should I get the 558 or spend the extra $100 for the akg 545?


 
 Those two aren't particularly comparable are they?  The K545 is a closed portable can.  Why not go for the K612 or Q701?


----------



## jimador48

stillhart said:


> Those two aren't particularly comparable are they?  The K545 is a closed portable can.  Why not go for the K612 or Q701?




I'm limited to using bb since I have a giftcard, and they don't carry those models in store.


----------



## Stillhart

jimador48 said:


> I'm limited to using bb since I have a giftcard, and they don't carry those models in store.


 
 Ah!  Well the 558 and 598 are both supposed to be great for gaming.  I haven't heard anything about the K545 for gaming but I suspect it won't be as good due to it being a closed can.
  
 I haven't heard any of them BTW, this is just based on what I've read.


----------



## jimador48

I'll keep looking on there site for other headsets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Out of the best buy headphones:

Sennheiser Momentum.... those just sound soooo damn good. Not sure how they'll do for gaming though.

Pretty sure the Momentum On Ear will be pretty good for fun gaming.

558 is a safe choice for sure, but I have a thing with the 5** line being a bit too safe sounding.

The Monster DNA Pro is one of the best closed headphones I've ever heard, but it's build quality needs work.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Nah, just saying at some point I need to track down a pair and give them a good demo. I may pick one up from Amazon and a pair of pads if the price ever drops on them.


 

 I promise, the HP200 w/alcantara pads will turn into THE go to all-rounder around here should you do so. All it takes is someone else to hear it and back me up, alah the K612.

 Edit: The HP100/150 w/alcantara pads looks to be a sweet fun counterpart to have as well. If I didn't have the SRH1540 w/alpha pads, already, I'd be all over it. Those matte black cups and the SM design makes the HP150 one sexy looking closed headphone, while also being semi-portable.

 Edit 2: I wonder what the alpha pads would do the HP100/150. Judging by the magical effect they have on the 1540, I can only imagine. I bet they will also isolate extremely well... better than already so...


----------



## imac2much

Stillhart and Silverwind (and other Omni users), quick question for you all.
 I am looking at some open headphones for the future.  Some may not really require any additional amping (X1, HP200 I think), but some seem to require it, or at least sound better with it (K712, HE-400).  I am looking at some amps, but I was curious how I am supposed to connect an additional amp to the Omni.  Do I just connect it through the headphone output as normal, or through a different connector?  And what type of cable should I use?  This may be an obvious question but I've never dealt with external sound cards and amps before 
  
 I've been looking through different amps, and I'm most intrigued by the Asgard 2.  While it is a bit pricey for me, I like that it has a gain switch so it can power both my low impedance headphones and my high impedance headphones... then again, I could just get a Magni and unplug it whenever I want to use my HP100.  The Vali intrigues me as well as I read tube amps are better with the HE-400 and the extra warmth shouldn't bother my gaming much (I don't play competitive games at all, and instead just want an immersive sound with my single player games).
  
 Thanks everyone!


----------



## Murder Mike

imac2much said:


> Stillhart and Silverwind (and other Omni users), quick question for you all.
> I am looking at some open headphones for the future.  Some may not really require any additional amping (X1, HP200 I think), but some seem to require it, or at least sound better with it (K712, HE-400).  I am looking at some amps, but I was curious how I am supposed to connect an additional amp to the Omni.  Do I just connect it through the headphone output as normal, or through a different connector?  And what type of cable should I use?  This may be an obvious question but I've never dealt with external sound cards and amps before
> 
> Thanks everyone!


 
  
 Removed the wrong info, see post below from Stillhart.


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Stillhart and Silverwind (and other Omni users), quick question for you all.
> I am looking at some open headphones for the future.  Some may not really require any additional amping (X1, HP200 I think), but some seem to require it, or at least sound better with it (K712, HE-400).  I am looking at some amps, but I was curious how I am supposed to connect an additional amp to the Omni.  Do I just connect it through the headphone output as normal, or through a different connector?  And what type of cable should I use?  This may be an obvious question but I've never dealt with external sound cards and amps before
> 
> I've been looking through different amps, and I'm most intrigued by the Asgard 2.  While it is a bit pricey for me, I like that it has a gain switch so it can power both my low impedance headphones and my high impedance headphones... then again, I could just get a Magni and unplug it whenever I want to use my HP100.  The Vali intrigues me as well as I read tube amps are better with the HE-400 and the extra warmth shouldn't bother my gaming much (I don't play competitive games at all, and instead just want an immersive sound with my single player games).
> ...


 
  
 Something like the AKG will sound fine with just the Omni, but will not sound its best without a better amp.  I can't speak to the HE-400, though I've been told that orthos are extremely power-hungry and will sound bad (compared to the AKG which sounds fine) without good amping.  
  
 I wouldn't worry too much about the impedance matching stuff at this lower end of the hi-fi spectrum.  My X1 sounded much better with the M-stage than with just the Omni, and the M-stage doesn't have the "correct" impedance afaik.
  
 BTW, to help narrow down your choices, you might want to check which amps pair best with your headphones.  Some headphones pair better with "warmer" amps (like the Q701) and some pair better with neutral or brighter amps etc.  The HP100 is pretty neutral and will sound good with just about anything IMO.  Other cans are more picky.
  


murder mike said:


> You would use the RCA outs on the back to feed it to the RCA input on an amp. If you were going to get a separate DAC and amp or DAC/amp combo, you would use the Optical out and feed that into the DAC instead of using the RCA outs.


 
  
 Not quite.  The Omni is odd in that if you use the RCA outputs, it assumes you're using speakers instead of headphones.  It actually processes the SBX virtual surround differently if you're using the RCA ports or the headphone ports.  Since you'll be using headphones, you'll want to use the 1/8" headphone jack with a 1/8"->RCA cable into your headphone amp.
  
 I had mine setup using the RCA ports at first and when @Evshrug told me about the headphone port I didn't believe him.  But I switched it and the difference was very noticeable.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> Something like the AKG will sound fine with just the Omni, but will not sound its best without a better amp.  I can't speak to the HE-400, though I've been told that orthos are extremely power-hungry and will sound bad (compared to the AKG which sounds fine) without good amping.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the impedance matching stuff at this lower end of the hi-fi spectrum.  My X1 sounded much better with the M-stage than with just the Omni, and the M-stage doesn't have the "correct" impedance afaik.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks as always!  Would a cable like this work?
 http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Male-2-Male-Adapter/dp/B004YEBK66
  
 As for headphone-amp pairing, I have been perusing sites such as head-fi, Headfonia and Inner Fidelity (this hobby has taken over my life the last couple weeks), and it sounds like many more "analytical" headphones like HD650 or HE500 are paired with tube amps for their warmth... I might be way off base but this is what I've seen so far.  Since I've mostly narrowed down my open headphone choices between X1, HP200, K712 and HE-400, I think a good solid state amp would be enough.  I appreciate your advice on disregarding impedance matching at this level though... in that case I might look at the O2 or Magni instead and save some money 
  
 I initially considered the Fiio E12 but I realized I don't really have any use for portability since I don't plan to listen to open headphones in public (I can use my s4i earbuds or HP100 instead which don't really need an amp).


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Thanks as always!  Would a cable like this work?
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Male-2-Male-Adapter/dp/B004YEBK66
> 
> As for headphone-amp pairing, I have been perusing sites such as head-fi, Headfonia and Inner Fidelity (this hobby has taken over my life the last couple weeks), and it sounds like many more "analytical" headphones like HD650 or HE500 are paired with tube amps for their warmth... I might be way off base but this is what I've seen so far.  Since I've mostly narrowed down my open headphone choices between X1, HP200, K712 and HE-400, I think a good solid state amp would be enough.  I appreciate your advice on disregarding impedance matching at this level though... in that case I might look at the O2 or Magni instead and save some money
> ...


 
 Yes, that's the right idea, but it's way overpriced.  Try this one:  
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2
  
 I only use Monoprice cables since they're stellar quality and dirt cheap.
  
 I still recommend matching the amp to the headphone.  For example, the AKG's tend to pair better with the Vali than the Magni.  Pick a headphone first and then pick the amp.


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> Not quite.  The Omni is odd in that if you use the RCA outputs, it assumes you're using speakers instead of headphones.  It actually processes the SBX virtual surround differently if you're using the RCA ports or the headphone ports.  Since you'll be using headphones, you'll want to use the 1/8" headphone jack with a 1/8"->RCA cable into your headphone amp.
> 
> I had mine setup using the RCA ports at first and when @Evshrug told me about the headphone port I didn't believe him.  But I switched it and the difference was very noticeable.


 
  
 Very odd, but good to know, thanks. I edited the previous post to avoid confusion if anyone actual bothers to search this thread.


----------



## jimador48

mad lust envy said:


> Out of the best buy headphones:
> 
> Sennheiser Momentum.... those just sound soooo damn good. Not sure how they'll do for gaming though.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is on ear better then over the ear for gaming or is it just preference. this will be my long term setup.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> Yes, that's the right idea, but it's way overpriced.  Try this one:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2
> 
> ...


 
 Wow thanks, those are much cheaper! 
 And monoprice is based in China so I should be able to buy those in China later, instead of stocking up on the Mediabridge ahead of time.  Great find, thanks!
  
 You're right, I guess I will hold off on amps for now until I make the plunge on a new pair of headphones.  The Omni has no problem with the HP100.  Surprisingly, I was able to use the HP100 just fine with my iphone 4S even at 50% or so volume.
  
 One more Omni question: since this isn't DH, does it matter what audio setting I use within games?  My Windows sound settings detects this as 5.1 surround; some games allow for both 5.1 and 7.1 audio output... which should I choose?  Other games (like Homefront) have no audio option for surround at all, will SBX work for this?


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Wow thanks, those are much cheaper!
> And monoprice is based in China so I should be able to buy those in China later, instead of stocking up on the Mediabridge ahead of time.  Great find, thanks!
> 
> You're right, I guess I will hold off on amps for now until I make the plunge on a new pair of headphones.  The Omni has no problem with the HP100.  Surprisingly, I was able to use the HP100 just fine with my iphone 4S even at 50% or so volume.  I keep reading about better closed headphones like the NAD HP50's and the Mad Dogs (or Alpha Dogs) but I guess it's hard for me to imagine closed headphones under $400 sounding much better than this, haha.


 
  
 The HP100 is a good all-arounder as it doesn't do anything badly.  However it's not AMAZING at anything.  Something like the Mad Dog, which I owned briefly, sounds AMAZING for some music (I've yet to hear anything that sounds as good for jazz) and not so good for others.  (Seriously, they sounded really damn good for jazz!)  
  
 I think what you'll find is that headphones, like many products, tend to specialize as you go up the price range, before then broadening again at the very top of the line.  That's my theory at least.


----------



## LordCheeseballs

stillhart said:


> This exact question was just asked a page or two back.  You can't use the Modi with the Mixamp (technically you can, but there's no reason to as you'll lose surround).  Your choice is better sounding stereo or surround with a sub-par DAC.  Many people, myself included, think that there's no much point in putting a good DAC on for gaming anyhow since the source material will tend to be not great.  Save your money and just stick with the Magni.
> 
> As to whether you need that, get the setup without it first.  If you can get the volume levels to where you want without the Magni then you're golden.  If you need more volume, you know what to do.


 
 Oh alright i see now thanks dude! I'll stick with that setup for my ps4, but i am also getting a pc soon so would the schiit stack combo retain surround sound when connected with a cheap asus soundcard with dolby headphone???


----------



## Stillhart

lordcheeseballs said:


> Oh alright i see now thanks dude! I'll stick with that setup for my ps4, but i am also getting a pc soon so would the schiit stack combo retain surround sound when connected with a cheap asus soundcard with dolby headphone???


 
  
 I'm not sure about the Asus sound card.  It would need to have an optical output and the ability to process the virtual surround first then output it via optical.  
  
 I know you can do it with the Sound Blaster Omni (or Z) because that's what I do.  You use the optical out into the Optical Modi (not the USB one).  But I tried that and I couldn't hear any difference in the DAC so I returned the Modi.  Once I upgraded to the Audio-GD, though, there was a noticeable improvement in the DAC.


----------



## jimador48

Im about pull the trigger on these
  
 Sennheiser - MOMENTUM Over-the-Ear
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-momentum-over-the-ear-headphones-chocolate/6815518.p?id=1218807878691&skuId=6815518
  
 Would those be good paired up with the vmoda boom mic?
  
 Setup is for my xb1 and ps4 and pc with the xp seven acu.


----------



## LordCheeseballs

stillhart said:


> I'm not sure about the Asus sound card.  It would need to have an optical output and the ability to process the virtual surround first then output it via optical.
> 
> I know you can do it with the Sound Blaster Omni (or Z) because that's what I do.  You use the optical out into the Optical Modi (not the USB one).  But I tried that and I couldn't hear any difference in the DAC so I returned the Modi.  Once I upgraded to the Audio-GD, though, there was a noticeable improvement in the DAC.


 
 Yeah the one that i plan on buying does have an optical out but i had forgotten the name (just found it). I just figured it would sound better with a modi since the sound card (Asus Xonar DGX) is about $37 on amazon. Btw creative sound cards don't have dolby headphone do they? (That's why i chose the asus one)


----------



## JayL

Sony MDRHW700DS?
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J0XR10A/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00J0XR10A&linkCode=as2&tag=mysimon-shop-deals&linkId=EJEKNKCAY5M2UTNC


----------



## Stillhart

jimador48 said:


> Im about pull the trigger on these
> 
> Sennheiser - MOMENTUM Over-the-Ear
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-momentum-over-the-ear-headphones-chocolate/6815518.p?id=1218807878691&skuId=6815518
> ...


 
  
 Sennheisers use a proprietary connector on their removable cables and I don't believe they work with the Boompro.
  


lordcheeseballs said:


> Yeah the one that i plan on buying does have an optical out but i had forgotten the name (just found it). I just figured it would sound better with a modi since the sound card (Asus Xonar DGX) is about $37 on amazon. Btw creative sound cards don't have dolby headphone do they? (That's why i chose the asus one)


 
  
 Sound Blaster uses a different surround processing tech called SBX (which is basically a ripoff of the THX they used to license).  I personally prefer the SBX surround processing to Dolby Headphone; it sounds better to my ears.  You should check out the videos at the beginning of the thread and compare the DH to the THX and see what you think for yourself.
  
 If you can't tell the difference, it's a no-brainer to get the SB Omni for $70 rather than the Asus for $37 and the Modi for $100.


----------



## LordCheeseballs

stillhart said:


> Sennheisers use a proprietary connector on their removable cables and I don't believe they work with the Boompro.
> 
> 
> Sound Blaster uses a different surround processing tech called SBX (which is basically a ripoff of the THX they used to license).  I personally prefer the SBX surround processing to Dolby Headphone; it sounds better to my ears.  You should check out the videos at the beginning of the thread and compare the DH to the THX and see what you think for yourself.
> ...


 
 I guess so but i honestly cannot tell the difference atm since my current headphones make them sound very similar, though i feel like dolby headphone gives a slight echo and compared to cmss it sometimes gets annoying. Well i guess i am probably not getting my headphones soon due to my budget spent on my pc so during christmas i can hopefully test it out  People do say sbx is the best but is the omni good for music???


----------



## jimador48

stillhart said:


> Sennheisers use a proprietary connector on their removable cables and I don't believe they work with the Boompro.


 
  
 It says it comes with 6.3mm adapter plug, standard connection cable, cable with smart remote
  
 anyone know for sure?
  
 thinking of picking them up during lunch


----------



## Stillhart

jimador48 said:


> It says it comes with 6.3mm adapter plug, standard connection cable, cable with smart remote
> 
> anyone know for sure?
> 
> thinking of picking them up during lunch


 
 I have the Momentum On-Ear.  It's a non-standard connector on the headphone side.


----------



## jimador48

stillhart said:


> I have the Momentum On-Ear.  It's a non-standard connector on the headphone side.


 
  
 Any way to make it work with the boom pro?
  
 or should I keep looking through the site for other options?


----------



## martin vegas

lordcheeseballs said:


> Oh alright i see now thanks dude! I'll stick with that setup for my ps4, but i am also getting a pc soon so would the schiit stack combo retain surround sound when connected with a cheap asus soundcard with dolby headphone???


 

 Why don't you just get a asus stx 2 for your new pc? just use that you won't need anything else just headphones!


----------



## LordCheeseballs

martin vegas said:


> Why don't you just get a asus stx 2 for your new pc? just use that you won't need anything else just headphones!


 
 Idk for sure on sound cards alone, despite all the praise stx gets but i need to try my headphones first, do a test on sbx and dolby headphone and then choose what to get  I just figured pairing a modestly-priced sound card with an amp + dac would work but all this is just precautions so by christmas, i will get either creative or asus since my headphones are not that great


----------



## Murder Mike

martin vegas said:


> Why don't you just get a asus stx 2 for your new pc? just use that you won't need anything else just headphones!


 
 It's not a bad idea if you're looking for an all-in-on solution, but the modular aspect of separate components can't be overlooked.


----------



## LordCheeseballs

martin vegas said:


> Why don't you just get a asus stx 2 for your new pc? just use that you won't need anything else just headphones!


 
 Btw dude do you have an stx??? What headphones do you use currently? As mentioned before i plan on getting the k712 pro's as it's got a tad more bass than the q701 and overall is great. I planned on getting the philips fidelio x1 but i guess i might go for the k712 pro's and order them from amazon US to UK as it is about $160 cheaper and it is only $40 more than the x1's in the UK so why not since amping them isnt an issue because i'm obviously not going to listen with them on the go anyway. I would be happy with either of them in the end since i stupidly decided to buy beat's by dr dre studio's about 1.5 years ago for 300 euros and i currently have skullcandy hesh 2's since they were cheap when i bought them and i couldn't find any high-end headphones


----------



## kman1211

imac2much said:


> Thanks as always!  Would a cable like this work?
> http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Male-2-Male-Adapter/dp/B004YEBK66
> 
> As for headphone-amp pairing, I have been perusing sites such as head-fi, Headfonia and Inner Fidelity (this hobby has taken over my life the last couple weeks), and it sounds like many more "analytical" headphones like HD650 or HE500 are paired with tube amps for their warmth... I might be way off base but this is what I've seen so far.  Since I've mostly narrowed down my open headphone choices between X1, HP200, K712 and HE-400, I think a good solid state amp would be enough.  I appreciate your advice on disregarding impedance matching at this level though... in that case I might look at the O2 or Magni instead and save some money
> ...


 

 I found tubes and what the tube sound is misrepresented a lot of times, they can be warm sounding(and often are), but so can SS amps. Actually not everyone pairs with tubes for warmth many pair for the tube sound which actually isn't warmth, just as solid states doesn't mean it's going to be neutral or cold and bright. My current tube setup is less warm than some SS amps I've heard, one of my tubes sounds slightly cold, lean, and bright sounding. I do have to say tubes generally do warmth better than SS amps which is why many tube amps tend to be tuned for warmth as it's quite a pleasing and musical sound. It's best to listen to a few different amps from solid state, hybrid, or tube given it's possible. Choosing an amp can be easy or hard depending on your sound preferences, how picky you are, how picky the headphones are, and how it pairs with a said headphones.
  
 The HD 650 isn't what I consider analytical, maybe to a degree if it's hooked up to a brighter and leaner amp, it's more on the musical, warm, dark, and laid-back side. The HE-500 is on the slightly dark, slightly warm, and more-laid-back side but it's more analytical than the HD 650. I would get the O2 or the E12 over the Magni personally because I think they both sound better, I found the Magni a brighter and colder sounding amp and the headphones you mentioned tend to have a more prominent or neutralish treble.


----------



## martin vegas

lordcheeseballs said:


> Btw dude do you have an stx??? What headphones do you use currently? As mentioned before i plan on getting the k712 pro's as it's got a tad more bass than the q701 and overall is great. I planned on getting the philips fidelio x1 but i guess i might go for the k712 pro's and order them from amazon US to UK as it is about $160 cheaper and it is only $40 more than the x1's in the UK so why not since amping them isnt an issue because i'm obviously not going to listen with them on the go anyway. I would be happy with either of them in the end since i stupidly decided to buy beat's by dr dre studio's about 1.5 years ago for 300 euros and i currently have skullcandy hesh 2's since they were cheap when i bought them and i couldn't find any high-end headphones


 

 I don't really need a stx,i use a pioneer susano av receiver with s81 speakers 8.2 set up for my gaming pc,  I have ps1000's lcd3's and akg3003i and shure 1840!


----------



## Silverwind

lordcheeseballs said:


> I guess so but i honestly cannot tell the difference atm since my current headphones make them sound very similar, though i feel like dolby headphone gives a slight echo and compared to cmss it sometimes gets annoying. Well i guess i am probably not getting my headphones soon due to my budget spent on my pc so during christmas i can hopefully test it out  People do say sbx is the best but is the omni good for music???




I think my OMNI sounds good for music using my Fidelio X1 headphones. Stomps all over using my iPhone 5s as a source. Very happy for the price.


----------



## jimador48

Since the Momentum over the ear aren't compatible with the boom mic this would be the next choice. Im able to pick them up right now for $168
  
 HD558
  
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones/1700513.p?id=1218285361000&skuId=1700513&productCategoryId=pcmcat144700050004
  
 What do you think?
  
 would this be better then the A40 system?
 hd558
 vmoda boom mic
 turtle beach acu ( could get the astro mix amp with the left over $$$ )


----------



## Stillhart

stillhart said:


> Sennheisers use a proprietary connector on their removable cables and I don't believe they work with the Boompro.


 
  


jimador48 said:


> Since the Momentum over the ear aren't compatible with the boom mic this would be the next choice. Im able to pick them up right now for $168
> 
> HD558
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry bud, Sennheisers still don't work with the Boompro.


----------



## Change is Good

In all honesty, having a BoomPro is highly overrated. Just get great headphone with a decent clip on.


----------



## jimador48

change is good said:


> In all honesty, having a BoomPro is highly overrated. Just get great headphone with a decent clip on.


 
  
 which one do you recommend ?


----------



## Change is Good

Any of the clip on mics listed on the front page will do.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> In all honesty, having a BoomPro is highly overrated. Just get great headphone with a decent clip on.


 
  
 Kind of agree.  They're really expensive for what you get.
  


jimador48 said:


> which one do you recommend ?


 
  
 The Neewer/HDE work fine for me.  They're like $6 on Amazon for 3 of em.  Takes about two weeks to ship from China tho, FYI.


----------



## jimador48

So I should go with the over the ear moment and a different mic
  
 Sennheiser - MOMENTUM Over-the-Ear Headphones
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-momentum-over-the-ear-headphones-chocolate/6815518.p?id=1218807878691&skuId=6815518


----------



## Evshrug

iMac2much,
Yep, with the Omni, you just wanna plug the amp into the headphone port to get headphone surround. The O2 has extremely low output impedance, that amp was basically designed by the guy who made up the impedance "matching" hype. The Magni happens to have just about the same output impedance, but more importantly than that for any amp is the sound character of the amp. Just use the Omni at first, and read up on reviews of the headphone you want and see what amps people prefer.
I wouldn't call the HE-400 an "analytical" headphone, it's very definitely V-shaped with strong colorations. I thought it was fun but the midrange was noticeably held back and mids/vocals took a definite background role in the music mix. I definitely liked them best on a tube amp with a tube that helped bring the mids back up into balance, the velours and bass on the HE-400 were superb but they did just a disservice to female vocals that I'll personally not own a pair. That's not to say they wouldn't work for you or your music, but the frequency graph definitely is V-shaped with a dip in the mids.

Who is silverwind?


----------



## imac2much

Thanks for everyone's input once again!
 Haha, this just goes to show how much I still have to learn about headphones   Thanks for all the corrections and recommendations, I really appreciate it!
 I do value female vocals a lot since I listen to a lot of musicals, so perhaps the HE-400 are not for me after all.
 I've read that my HP100's possess rather neutral sound with extended treble, and I enjoy them quite a bit for my music so far (though I wouldn't mind a bit more bass "impact", though I don't really understand yet whether I want bass extention in the "sub-bass" or "mid-bass"...).  I think these do not have a V signature, so I would probably notice recessed mids if I changed to a headphone with a V signature... hard to say without auditioning more headphones though haha 
  
 Do you feel that the K712 have enough bass extension compared to the HP100?  I've read that the K712 completely lacks V signature and have great mids, but then again I thought I read that the HE-400 had good mids as well.
  
 Also, Silverwind helped me with some Omni questions in this thread as well as PM's earlier


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like having the boompro over a clip on because I cant stand having to reach for the clip on and dealing with yet another cable from the headphone to the source. Too many cables.Not something you have to deal with the Boompro. However, if you're ok dealing with an extra cable, a clip on is more than fine. I still use my DX mic whenever I'm reviewing a headphone without a mic/not able to use the Boompro.


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, silver wind sounds like a nice person.

The K712 has mostly neutral mids, a little midbass hump and doesn't roll off the bass as early as some other headphones, has a bit of a treble spike that doesn't hurt my ears and has decent extension, but basically these lifts don't make music sound unnatural and everything is pretty well integrated.

Try googling the Harman Curve, though the headphones don't have wire-flat neutral frequency charts they DO sound balanced and engaging.


----------



## kman1211

imac2much said:


> Thanks for everyone's input once again!
> Haha, this just goes to show how much I still have to learn about headphones   Thanks for all the corrections and recommendations, I really appreciate it!
> I do value female vocals a lot since I listen to a lot of musicals, so perhaps the HE-400 are not for me after all.
> I've read that my HP100's possess rather neutral sound with extended treble, and I enjoy them quite a bit for my music so far (though I wouldn't mind a bit more bass "impact", though I don't really understand yet whether I want bass extention in the "sub-bass" or "mid-bass"...).  I think these do not have a V signature, so I would probably notice recessed mids if I changed to a headphone with a V signature... hard to say without auditioning more headphones though haha
> ...


 

 The K712s mids are a tad recessed, they are good mids though. The bass extends quite deep and with the right pairing has plenty of body and presence. Some headphones with more midrange presence are the K612, HD 600, and HD 650. I think you will really appreciate the beauty, tonality, and depth of the vocals both female and male from the HD 600 and HD 650.


----------



## jimador48

mad lust envy said:


> I like having the boompro over a clip on because I cant stand having to reach for the clip on and dealing with yet another cable from the headphone to the source. Too many cables.Not something you have to deal with the Boompro. However, if you're ok dealing with an extra cable, a clip on is more than fine. I still use my DX mic whenever I'm reviewing a headphone without a mic/not able to use the Boompro.




I've been using actual gaming headsets for years, so this is all new to me. I'll have to connect the mic through the controller anyway so a clip can be an option. ( I have a ps4 clip on mic that could work for now )

I'm still confused on which headset to buy tho.

The 558 has similar specs to the a40s. The 598s are sold out everywhere. 

Can't find any specs on the monster dna. 

The momentum over ears are in stock tho but @ $300.


----------



## Yethal

For people who have used the ModMic, aside from the price, are there any real disadvantages of using modmic over some clip-on mic? Build quality or sq?


----------



## Change is Good

Guys, think about it. How many people that you game with actually use high quality headphones to tell the difference in sound quality from your mic?

Unless you have a dedicated gaming channel with fans and such, the importance of sound quality from a mic is being overblown.


----------



## imac2much

kman1211 said:


> The K712s mids are a tad recessed, they are good mids though. The bass extends quite deep and with the right pairing has plenty of body and presence. Some headphones with more midrange presence are the K612, HD 600, and HD 650. I think you will really appreciate the beauty, tonality, and depth of the vocals both female and male from the HD 600 and HD 650.




Thanks kman!
This makes me even more excited to try out my father in law's hd650 tomorrow. 
I've read that hd650 scales immensely with amps (and that the fabled sennheiser veil can be attributed to inadequate amount). However, it's been hard to find a consensus pairing for the hd650 with a budget amp (around $200 or so). I've read some good things about the o2, lyr, and m stage. 

Do you have any recommendations? My use would probably be 50% gaming and 50% music.


----------



## kman1211

imac2much said:


> Thanks kman!
> This makes me even more excited to try out my father in law's hd650 tomorrow.
> I've read that hd650 scales immensely with amps (and that the fabled sennheiser veil can be attributed to inadequate amount). However, it's been hard to find a consensus pairing for the hd650 with a budget amp (around $200 or so). I've read some good things about the o2, lyr, and m stage.
> 
> Do you have any recommendations? My use would probably be 50% gaming and 50% music.


 

 I hope you really enjoy the headphone. The HD 650 took some time for me to appreciate but it also took me a while to figure out what I want in a headphone despite being able to audition so many heaphones. I always thought the Sennheiser veil was a bit overblown. I'm personally not a big Senn fan overall, I only really like the HD 600 family. I heard good things about it on the Valhalla 1/2, Project Ember, Asgard 2, and a few others.
  
 Well for a gaming and music package wrapped all in one, I would personally suggest looking at AKGs K6xx and K7xx offerings, the K712 probably being the best choice overall but also most expensive. While the HD 650 is better than these for pure music listening overall in my opinion, I've read it suffers a bit with imaging in gaming. I haven't gamed with the HD 650 before, but if it's like my HD 545(a predecessor of the HD 650) with surround sound gaming, I can understand why it's iffy with surround sound gaming.


----------



## iBurley

Not sure if this has been asked before somewhere in the 1661 pages of this thread, but does anybody have experience with IEM's for gaming? Specifically I play Counter Strike: Global Offensive competitively and I'd love to pick up a good set of IEM's that would still be good for positional audio, while being able to kill it with my music as well. I'd prefer it to have a mic, but that isn't necessarily a requirement, as generally I assume those are marketed toward phones, and would be lower quality. My budget would be hard capped at $200, soft cap at $150, and preferably something that didn't need to be amplified.
  
 On a side note, are there any USB sound cards that aren't terrible for music listening? Possibly with a headphone amp built in? I'd prefer it had both mic and headphone port, but again, not a deal breaker.


----------



## Yethal

iburley said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before somewhere in the 1661 pages of this thread, but does anybody have experience with IEM's for gaming? Specifically I play Counter Strike: Global Offensive competitively and I'd love to pick up a good set of IEM's that would still be good for positional audio, while being able to kill it with my music as well. I'd prefer it to have a mic, but that isn't necessarily a requirement, as generally I assume those are marketed toward phones, and would be lower quality. My budget would be hard capped at $200, soft cap at $150, and preferably something that didn't need to be amplified.
> 
> On a side note, are there any USB sound cards that aren't terrible for music listening? Possibly with a headphone amp built in? I'd prefer it had both mic and headphone port, but again, not a deal breaker.


 
 Soundblaster Omni. Everything You need.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> For people who have used the ModMic, aside from the price, are there any real disadvantages of using modmic over some clip-on mic? Build quality or sq?


 
  
 The Modmic is quite a nice product overall. The biggest disadvantages to it are the price and the fact that you have to attach the magnetic base to the headphones themselves. I've had 2 bases pop off from my Q701 due to heavy use. But the Modmic's sound is nice and clear and the boom positioning was exceptional. But is it worth 20x more than a clip-on mic? That's entirely up to you. The Modmic is $50 and clip-on mics can be had for around $2.50, that's a gigantic price difference.
  


iburley said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before somewhere in the 1661 pages of this thread, but does anybody have experience with IEM's for gaming? Specifically I play Counter Strike: Global Offensive competitively and I'd love to pick up a good set of IEM's that would still be good for positional audio, while being able to kill it with my music as well. I'd prefer it to have a mic, but that isn't necessarily a requirement, as generally I assume those are marketed toward phones, and would be lower quality. My budget would be hard capped at $200, soft cap at $150, and preferably something that didn't need to be amplified.
> 
> On a side note, are there any USB sound cards that aren't terrible for music listening? Possibly with a headphone amp built in? I'd prefer it had both mic and headphone port, but again, not a deal breaker.


 
  
 Change is Good uses Sony XBAH3 IEM for gaming and I use the 1964 Ears 1964-Q. Both have excellent positional queues (for IEMs) when gaming and they're both excellent when it comes to music reproduction. Unfortunately both come in over your budget. You could check out the Soundstage Head Club to find some IEMs with nice big soundstages that could work well for gaming and fall within your budget.
  
 As for USB sound cards, I'd personally recommend getting 2 devices if you can swing it with your budget. You can pick up the ASUS U3 for gaming (Dolby Heapdhone) and a small USB DAC like the HiFiMeDIY DAC for about $80 total. Buying something second hand or a less expensive DAC could save you even more. But if you're on a tighter budget the U3 doesn't sound terrible by itself. It's fairly capable for music listening. $30 after rebate on Amazon currently. They seem to always have a rebate active on that card.


----------



## imac2much

So I got to audition some headphones today at my father-in-law's.  He's a big Sennheiser fan, so he had his old HD545, his newer HD650, his Momentums (for work) and Sennheiser IEM (not sure which model).  I also brought over my HP100 with 1540 pads so we could compare.  He was quite impressed by the HP100 and seemed to enjoy the sound better than the Momentums for closed headphones.  I also found the Momentum Over-Ears to be incredibly small... my ears still fit within the ear pads (BARELY) but even though the headphones were quite light, I felt they weighed down on the top of my ears.  They definitely were not comfortable for my head so that made me even more happy with my HP100 purchase.
  
 For the open headphones, I was impressed by the "airiness" of the HD650.  I now see what people talk about in terms of the open headphone soundstage.  The HP100 were already so  much airier than my previous closed headphones, so I wasn't sure how open headphones would improve on it... well after trying the HD650, going back to the HP100 made music sound almost TOO close to my ears.  I guess they sounded more like "headphones" again while the HD650 sounded like I was hearing music in a room.  I might be wrong, but I felt the HD650 had better bass as well, though the mids were not as prominent.  My father in law says he prefers instrumental music like classical and jazz anyway so he's not too worried about mids.  It's not that the HD650 had recessed mids, but I felt at least they weren't as clear as my HP100.
  
 Well, although I liked most of the sound better than my HP100 (with a couple caveats), the real nail in the coffin against the HD650 was the build quality and comfort.  For a pair of headphones that often sells for $350-400, I felt like these cans were flimsy and brittle - even my HP100 felt like they were made of better parts!  The HD650 definitely exhibited tighter clamp on my ears, so the comfort wasn't there for me either.  I didn't think it was that bad, and I could probably have still worn them for an hour with no problem, but if I am paying $3-400 for a good set of open ear headphones, I am hoping for at least comparable comfort to my HP100.  I also would hope to expect good build quality - not in terms of aesthetics as that can definitely be in the eye of the beholder (although I do think the HD650 are ugly, I like the look of the HE-400 though others find them too utilitarian), I would hope the headphones don't feel so "plasticky" :/
  
 So my search for new open headphones continues.  Someone in my neighborhood on Craigslist was willing to sell his HD650 for $300 today and I turned him down, even though I thought that was a good deal.  The K712 are now at the top of my list, and I'm still intrigued by the HE-400i (hopefully they will come down in price within a year).  I know Change highly recommends the HP200, but since I already have the HP100 for closed headphones, I want something a bit different with a more distinct sound signature for my open pair.
  
 Sorry for the rambling, thank you for reading my impressions and thoughts on the Sennheisers.  Hopefully I didn't sound TOO negative as they did *sound* very good to me; I just left wanting better build and comfort among other things when I'm paying that much money.


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> ...
> For the open headphones, I was impressed by the "airiness" of the HD650. I now see what people talk about in terms of the open headphone soundstage.



Heh heh heh, if you think you had it good now, wait till you hear a top-tier AKG...




imac2much said:


> I might be wrong, but I felt the HD650 had better bass as well, though *the mids were not as prominent*.  My father in law says he prefers instrumental music like *classical and jazz anyway so he's not too worried about mids.*



SHOCKED!




imac2much said:


> It's not that the HD650 had recessed mids, but I felt at least they *weren't as clear* as my HP100.



Shock!
I'm not going to dispute what you heard, it's just that from everything I've read the HD650 has rather prominent yet lush/full/magical mids that steal the show for this headphone. I've totally lost my bearing on what the HP100 sounds like relative to other headphones, other than the treble is pretty clear but also pretty prominent.
One thing I will say about the DT880, it's aesthetically very pleasing to my eyes, and has the most shiny metal of the classic "flagship" trio. I also find them superbly comfortable. I didn't recommend it to you because the mids aren't the forefront and it's a pretty "dry" headphone sound, but they are very clean and clear (and so is everything else).

I wonder what you would think of the K702, with and without the (simple) bass mod.


----------



## imac2much

evshrug said:


> SHOCKED!
> Shock!
> I'm not going to dispute what you heard, it's just that from everything I've read the HD650 has rather prominent yet lush/full/magical mids that steal the show for this headphone. I've totally lost my bearing on what the HP100 sounds like relative to other headphones, other than the treble is pretty clear but also pretty prominent.
> One thing I will say about the DT880, it's aesthetically very pleasing to my eyes, and has the most shiny metal of the classic "flagship" trio. I also find them superbly comfortable. I didn't recommend it to you because the mids aren't the forefront and it's a pretty "dry" headphone sound, but they are very clean and clear (and so is everything else).
> ...


 
 Yeah I read from MLE and others that the HD 650 has incredible mids but I guess I didn't hear that in my limited testing.  It might have to do with his amping maybe, because he didn't have anything fancy for it (Audio Engine DAC/Amp I think).  Then again, I am new at this so I definitely may have misunderstood "mids" or "treble" or whatever; it just seemed like vocals were a bit muffled to me.  I could be completely off base here though.
  
 Thanks for the DT880 suggestion.  I do really like how most Beyerdynamic headphones look, and I've heard they are some of the most comfortable phones on the market at that price.  However, I think I would like some with more bass and mids than the DT 880, which is why I'm looking at K712 and possibly Fidelio X1 now (though I *really* would prefer a headphone with replaceable ear pads, so I'm curious if the X2 fixes that oversight).
  
 My friend in China told me that there are Oppo stores all over there (I didn't know Oppo was based in China).  I've read nothing but good things about the Oppo PM-1, so I would LOVE to try those out when we move there.  Planar magnetics + comfort sounds wonderful to me


----------



## kman1211

imac2much said:


> So I got to audition some headphones today at my father-in-law's.  He's a big Sennheiser fan, so he had his old HD545, his newer HD650, his Momentums (for work) and Sennheiser IEM (not sure which model).  I also brought over my HP100 with 1540 pads so we could compare.  He was quite impressed by the HP100 and seemed to enjoy the sound better than the Momentums for closed headphones.  I also found the Momentum Over-Ears to be incredibly small... my ears still fit within the ear pads (BARELY) but even though the headphones were quite light, I felt they weighed down on the top of my ears.  They definitely were not comfortable for my head so that made me even more happy with my HP100 purchase.
> 
> For the open headphones, I was impressed by the "airiness" of the HD650.  I now see what people talk about in terms of the open headphone soundstage.  The HP100 were already so  much airier than my previous closed headphones, so I wasn't sure how open headphones would improve on it... well after trying the HD650, going back to the HP100 made music sound almost TOO close to my ears.  I guess they sounded more like "headphones" again while the HD650 sounded like I was hearing music in a room.  I might be wrong, but I felt the HD650 had better bass as well, though the mids were not as prominent.  My father in law says he prefers instrumental music like classical and jazz anyway so he's not too worried about mids.  It's not that the HD650 had recessed mids, but I felt at least they weren't as clear as my HP100.
> 
> ...


 

 I do have to agree about the feel of them, they do feel a bit cheap and plasticy and the clamp is a bit much but you get used to it. The K712 feels much better made than the HD 650 imo. The impressions of the sound are quite a bit different from my experience but I likely heard them on a very different system which can easily attribute to the difference between our impressions, I heard them only on tube amps. Although it took multiple auditions and different systems for me to start appreciating them and realizing how well they scale up, let's just say I wasn't a fan when I first heard them, I thought they were boring at first. Do you know if it was a new or old HD 650? The new and old ones do sound different. The newer HD 650 sounds clearer, brighter, more detailed and dynamic, and midrange oriented. The older one is a bit veiled sounding, more laid-back, bassier but has less sub-bass, darker highs, and has less detail and clarity. The new one has a white film over the driver which can be seen from the earcups and the old ones have a black film over the driver. Did you listen to the HD 545?


----------



## Change is Good

*Imac2much, *when I had the HP100, the Q701 was my open headphone. So, Q701/K702 all the way if I were you.


----------



## calpis

@Mad Lust Envy 
 Finally got around to reading the 15g review, awesome write up. Glad to see you enjoy them, I still use mine everyday. Just wanted to let you know that you can lightly heat up the earpads with a hair dryer or just leave them in a stuffy room and they can be peeled off quite easily. The adhesive is pretty forgiving and you can stick it back onto the cups with no problems, I've taken mine off a few times now to clean out stray hairs. You should have a spare pair of earpads in the HS15 box too


----------



## Evshrug

The Destiny Beta ended, now what am I gonna do with my liiiife? Lol jk. Side note, I love watching Star Wars (yeah even the new ones) with my virtual surround and nice headphones, it's a really exciting experience and I have zero worry about bothering someone else


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> The Destiny Beta ended, now what am I gonna do with my liiiife? Lol jk. Side note, I love watching Star Wars (yeah even the new ones) with my virtual surround and nice headphones, it's a really exciting experience and I have zero worry about bothering someone else


 
  
 Now you'll dance for me and my compatriots. *clap clap*


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Now you'll dance for me and my compatriots. *clap clap*


----------



## Kamakahah

evshrug said:


>




That's exactly what I looked like after beating Neo Khidr in Rogue Legacy.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


>


 
 Now we need Change to label everyone again...


----------



## Change is Good

iburley said:


> Not sure if this has been asked before somewhere in the 1661 pages of this thread, but does anybody have experience with IEM's for gaming? Specifically I play Counter Strike: Global Offensive competitively and I'd love to pick up a good set of IEM's that would still be good for positional audio, while being able to kill it with my music as well. I'd prefer it to have a mic, but that isn't necessarily a requirement, as generally I assume those are marketed toward phones, and would be lower quality. My budget would be hard capped at $200, soft cap at $150, and preferably something that didn't need to be amplified.
> 
> On a side note, are there any USB sound cards that aren't terrible for music listening? Possibly with a headphone amp built in? I'd prefer it had both mic and headphone port, but again, not a deal breaker.


 


axelcloris said:


> Change is Good uses Sony XBAH3 IEM for gaming and I use the 1964 Ears 1964-Q. Both have excellent positional queues (for IEMs) when gaming and they're both excellent when it comes to music reproduction. Unfortunately both come in over your budget. You could check out the Soundstage Head Club to find some IEMs with nice big soundstages that could work well for gaming and fall within your budget.


 

 Unfortunately it seems Axel and I are the only regulars, here, that use IEMs. As he mentioned, we have ours that we use, but way out of your budget. The XBA-H3, however, is currently down to $250, just $50 above that budget of yours and well worth its price point.

 Axel, didn't you used to own the Fidelio S2? I think that can be safe a go to IEM for gaming, to those who come around with that preference in mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug

I was about to say the same thing. Destiny became an obsession.

And hotdammit, I missed Saturday's Moon event. :'( I was asleep since I worked that night. DAMN YOU, OVERNIGHT SHIFT.

I've just been rewatching Sword Art Online but in english. The dub isn't bad, actually. I've been in an anime mood, so I'm considering Log Horizon, and .Hack, both which I haven't seen. Well, that is, until Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky comes out on Steam tomorrow. Then I'll be putting most of my attention towards that.



calpis said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> Finally got around to reading the 15g review, awesome write up. Glad to see you enjoy them, I still use mine everyday. Just wanted to let you know that you can lightly heat up the earpads with a hair dryer or just leave them in a stuffy room and they can be peeled off quite easily. The adhesive is pretty forgiving and you can stick it back onto the cups with no problems, I've taken mine off a few times now to clean out stray hairs. You should have a spare pair of earpads in the HS15 box too




Thanks! Yeah, I guess I'll eventually try the blow dryer method. I've been using the 15G at work everyday, since my KSC75's started shorting out on one side. I guess the 75 just needs the right driver's wires to be secured with more adhesive or something. I know it's super easy to take the cover for the wires off, but I'm so bad at DiY. I guess I'll eventually ask one of you fools to fix my KSC75 whenever I send out a pair of headphones again or something.


----------



## lenroot77

Cant wait!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Evshrug
> 
> I was about to say the same thing. Destiny became an obsession.
> 
> ...




I missed it too cuz I worked till 9, and my gf tried talking me into a party (was way too tired from the typical weekend rush/crowds). I did play a bit of the iron banner competitive event that night though, won two legendary guns and bought a sick wolf waist-cape-flag thing for my Titan. I was surprised at myself, mostly winning and most often the MVP. 

Destiny competitive reminded me a lot of Halo 3 where opponents see eachother at the same time and shields make sure 1v1 gunfights are really close, you win by movement, dodging, and more consistent aim, BUT the shields are a bit squishier than Halo 3 so if I'm not immediately targeted I could take down two people at once. Audio is very good, but not as much of an advantage (unless you hear them jump) as in corner-rushing in CoD and SWAT mode in the recent Halo's, because you have a (approximate) radar and you know that your enemies will mostly be coming from their control points. Due to the approximate nature of the radar, however, Destiny + headphone surround setup + shotgun = BLAM!-ing pwnership.

It's cool to hear that you're watching SAO again, loved that. Let me know when you start one of the others, I'll Netflix it too and we can talk about episodes.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Unfortunately it seems Axel and I are the only regulars, here, that use IEMs. As he mentioned, we have ours that we use, but way out of your budget. The XBA-H3, however, is currently down to $250, just $50 above that budget of yours and well worth its price point.
> 
> Axel, didn't you used to own the Fidelio S2? I think that can be safe a go to IEM for gaming, to those who come around with that preference in mind.


 
  
 How are the SoundMAGIC IEM's?  Anyone tried them yet?
  


mad lust envy said:


> @Evshrug
> 
> I was about to say the same thing. Destiny became an obsession.
> 
> And hotdammit, I missed Saturday's Moon event. :'( I was asleep since I worked that night. DAMN YOU, OVERNIGHT SHIFT.


 
  
 The moon mission was pretty cool.  If nothing else it was really refreshing to get into a new area type.  Beautiful as Old Russia is, I put 32 hours into it this last week... a change of pace was nice.  
  
 It's funny reading about all these people disappointed that the game might not be as big as they had hoped.  I played 32 hours JUST in Old Russia and 2 pvp maps.  I'll pay $60 for 32 hours of entertainment, no problem.  This game is going to have way more than that... very excited!


----------



## dedemouse

I planned to buy AKG K712 Pro. But i wonder if it can work properly with my *Xonar Xense* sound card?


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> How are the SoundMAGIC IEM's?  Anyone tried them yet?
> 
> 
> The moon mission was pretty cool.  If nothing else it was really refreshing to get into a new area type.  Beautiful as Old Russia is, I put 32 hours into it this last week... a change of pace was nice.
> ...


 

 I have the sound magic E10 I use with a portable dab radio for when I go jogging..decent sounding budget in ears that won't snag as easy as some..don't know about any of the others though!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> How are the SoundMAGIC IEM's?  Anyone tried them yet?




Never tried 'em, sorry. I think Axel has?

I have a confession to make. I actually find myself reaching for my IEMs more often than not... even for gaming. Call me crazy...


----------



## MC LeBron 23

MLE...What would you go for to play single player campaigns for immersive gaming?

1. Dt 770 pro 80
2. Pro 900

I can get the 770s for around $100. The 900s are going to cost me $400. Is it really worth that extra $300??? I might be able to demo both, possibly both. Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

MC,
In Mad's review of the Ultrasone Pro900, he basically said it's a good closed headphone with too much treble. I'm in the process of returning a pair of DT880 (600 ohm) because the smooth treble was nevertheless too strong and left my ears aching after less than an hour of music... The Pro 900 has even more, you'd have to have iron ears to be on the side of the fence that the treble doesn't bother you.

I haven't heard the DT770 myself (and it looks like there is a wide sample variation anyway), but I'd recommend pursuing that one and getting some demo time with it. $100 is a great price for that headphone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree, forget about the Pro 900. That treble will harm your hearing over time. At first it can be exciting, explosive and very immersive but then fatigue will kick in. After a bit of browsing through your music catalogue you'll start to notice that voices don't sound very natural and have a metallic stain. 
  
 There's a Kies Mod to reduce the highs if you wanna do that but imo there are very few basshead headphones done right and the Pro 900 while popular isn't one as that metallic character will never go away. The Signature DJ is the best basshead headphone if isolation is a factor. It's amazing actually but too expensive (like all Ultrasone stuff). 
  
 The DT770 has a better soundstage, less piercing highs (smoothest by far were MMX 300 2013 Edition + DT770 LE AE 32 Ohms).


----------



## Change is Good

Yikezzzzzzzz... just reading about it makes me cringe...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I absolutely would not spend $400 for the Pro 900. For $100, the 770's are pretty good. N ote that the Pro 900 excels in mid bass and has very little sub bass, while the 770 Pro 80 is all about the sub bass, less about the mid bass. At least IIRC. It's been a LOOOOOONG time. I wouldn't go by grpahs when it comes to sub bass, as the D7000 graphs online would lead you to believe it has a severe sub bass roll off. ANyone who has heard the D7000 knows that is the farthest thing from the truth.

edit: Having gone back to headroom, you can see that 770s have a pretty noticeable dip in the mid bass compared to sub bass. No wonder I liked it's bass a lot. I much pretty sub bass over mid bass.

Problem with the 770 is that it can sound stuffy/muffled at times. It is very immersive though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

New Sony Flagship with 65mm Diamond Transducers.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/728006/sonys-new-flagship-2014
  
 Evade the hype train until price, measurements and build quality.
  
 On this note I want to point out again how awesome it is to have a customer service like Beyerdynamic and V-Moda. I wish more (looking at you Sony) would follow. Though Ultrasone isn't bad either with 5 years of warranty.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> New Sony Flagship with 65mm Diamond Transducers.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/728006/sonys-new-flagship-2014
> 
> ...


 
 65mm drivers? Geez, somebody's penis must be tiny


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering Sony has already used 70mm drivers, it's not like 65mm drivers should be a bullet point. Pretty certain that 40mm can deliver near sonic perfection, and 70mm drivers can give us crap.

Oh Sony.

Lost interest once I noticed that it seems to be closed back. I have absolute no interest in closed backl headphones, especially when portability isn't a concern.


----------



## DesmondKSA

What is the best sound card for Philips Fidelio X1. Because this headphone need 500 mW

 http://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/X1_28/-/specifications


----------



## Yethal

HD800 use 56mm and there is absolutely no reason to go any bigger, unless you know, OUR DRIVERS ARE BIGGER THAN YOURZ


----------



## MC LeBron 23

evshrug said:


> MC,
> In Mad's review of the Ultrasone Pro900, he basically said it's a good closed headphone with too much treble. I'm in the process of returning a pair of DT880 (600 ohm) because the smooth treble was nevertheless too strong and left my ears aching after less than an hour of music... The Pro 900 has even more, you'd have to have iron ears to be on the side of the fence that the treble doesn't bother you.
> 
> I haven't heard the DT770 myself (and it looks like there is a wide sample variation anyway), but I'd recommend pursuing that one and getting some demo time with it. $100 is a great price for that headphone.






fegefeuer said:


> I agree, forget about the Pro 900. That treble will harm your hearing over time. At first it can be exciting, explosive and very immersive but then fatigue will kick in. After a bit of browsing through your music catalogue you'll start to notice that voices don't sound very natural and have a metallic stain.
> 
> There's a Kies Mod to reduce the highs if you wanna do that but imo there are very few basshead headphones done right and the Pro 900 while popular isn't one as that metallic character will never go away. The Signature DJ is the best basshead headphone if isolation is a factor. It's amazing actually but too expensive (like all Ultrasone stuff).
> 
> The DT770 has a better soundstage, less piercing highs (smoothest by far were MMX 300 2013 Edition + DT770 LE AE 32 Ohms).






mad lust envy said:


> Considering Sony has already used 70mm drivers, it's not like 65mm drivers should be a bullet point. Pretty certain that 40mm can deliver near sonic perfection, and 70mm drivers can give us crap.
> 
> Oh Sony.
> 
> Lost interest once I noticed that it seems to be closed back. I have absolute no interest in closed backl headphones, especially when portability isn't a concern.




Thanks guys. The 900 I was looking at is on eBay. Forgot to mention that it had the alpha pads and the hd600 headband. The seller said the alpha pads would reduce the treble and make the bass tighter. Not too sure about that though. Hes asking $450 but I can get him down to $400 possibly $350. The 770s are very tempting for $120 so I'm most likely going with them.


----------



## altrunox

Ey anyone tried this -> http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/playstation-gold-wireless-headset.html





 My friend need a cheap headset for his PS4, and there's no Skullcandy PLYR in Brazil.
 They look comfortable...


----------



## Evshrug

altrunox said:


> Ey anyone tried this -> http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/playstation-gold-wireless-headset.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It won't beat an AKG K612, but it's a simple wireless Playstation solution with 7.1 surround encoding with decent battery life (and wired stereo for anything else) that folds up compact. It's not amazing at any one thing, but a good price considering all the features you get (everything in one package).


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> Considering Sony has already used 70mm drivers, it's not like 65mm drivers should be a bullet point. Pretty certain that 40mm can deliver near sonic perfection, and 70mm drivers can give us crap.
> 
> Oh Sony.
> 
> Lost interest once I noticed that it seems to be closed back. I have absolute no interest in closed backl headphones, especially when portability isn't a concern.


 

 I wonder if it's a flagship or not. Sony is basically the only people that can make a closed-back dynamic sound better than any dynamic headphone regardless of opened or closed if they tried. I hope it's the long-awaited successor to the R10 although I have my doubts as surpassing or even being equal to the R10 is a tall order. The other question is the price of the new headphones.


----------



## altrunox

evshrug said:


> It won't beat an AKG K612, but it's a simple wireless Playstation solution with 7.1 surround encoding with decent battery life (and wired stereo for anything else) that folds up compact. It's not amazing at any one thing, but a good price considering all the features you get (everything in one package).


 
 Thanks, i didn`t find anything else at this price. It`s looks more durable than the old Pulse Elite.
 If anyone else have some recommendation


----------



## Evshrug

altrunox said:


> Thanks, i didn`t find anything else at this price. It`s looks more durable than the old Pulse Elite.
> If anyone else have some recommendation



I can't speak to the durability vs the Pulse Elite, but I did just see a comparison YouTube video where a guy with both pointed out that the Gold was more comfortable due to the blue padding along the inside of the headband. There are probably some wired choices that could challenge it for value and sound quality, but closed/wireless/mic'd/surround all-in-one it's a pretty good option if you can't get the Skullcandy's.


----------



## Stillhart

So I may or may not have just grabbed a used PS4 for $216.  >.>  Whether or not I have depends on how loudly my wife yells when it arrives...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> So I may or may not have just grabbed a used PS4 for $216.  >.>  Whether or not I have depends on how loudly my wife yells when it arrives...


 
  
 If she yells too loudly I may be willing to assist in restocking your wallet.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> If she yells too loudly I may be willing to assist in restocking your wallet.


 
 You're already second in line, lol!


----------



## theragekage

stillhart said:


> So I may or may not have just grabbed a used PS4 for $216.  >.>  Whether or not I have depends on how loudly my wife yells when it arrives...




Wow, that is a great price! Where did you find it if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> Wow, that is a great price! Where did you find it if you don't mind me asking?


 
  
 Cowboom is having a sale.  There's a thread on slickdeals.  Hit F5 for three hours...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> You're already second in line, lol!


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Cowboom is having a sale.  There's a thread on slickdeals.  Hit F5 for three hours...


 
 Are you sure it says that it's working? seems a bit too good to be true..ps4's seem to keep their price even pre-owned!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Are you sure it says that it's working? seems a bit too good to be true..ps4's seem to keep their price even pre-owned!


 
 Well I won't know for sure until it arrives and I plug it in, but they have already charged my card and sent me a confirmation so we'll see...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Well I won't know for sure until it arrives and I plug it in, but they have already charged my card and sent me a confirmation so we'll see...


 
  
 I hope you get yours. Because then that means that I'll be getting the condition 4 I just snagged. Bonus, mine comes with a controller.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I hope you get yours. Because then that means that I'll be getting the condition 4 I just snagged. Bonus, mine comes with a controller.


 
 Bazingo!  Nice one, you lucky dog!  Took you a fraction of the time and you're getting a better one than me.  You must have built up some good karma since the basement thing, eh?
  
 So once mine comes in and I learn if I can keep it or not... I have to decide whether to buy Destiny on PS4 or Xbox.  Probably PS4 for the timed exclusives I guess, tho my Xbox buddies will be bummed.


----------



## AxelCloris

It would seem you can also get an Xbox One with Kinect for $343.19 shipped.
  
 www.cowboom.com/product/1508310/
  
 Just like the PS4 they're adding it in small waves.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone tinker with the audio settings on The Last of Us Remastered? looks to have several options.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

Just got my e12 in the mail. First time ever using an amp. Tried them out with my M50s and I hear a difference compared to using them straight from my phone. (Phone is a droid maxx using rhapsody) Even with the low impendence of the M50s, it seems clearer and the beats and instruments are separated more when using the e12. 

I'm about to order the 770-80s. Hope they're a significant improvment over the M50s particularly the bass.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> So I may or may not have just grabbed a used PS4 for $216.  >.>  Whether or not I have depends on how loudly my wife yells when it arrives...


 
  


axelcloris said:


> If she yells too loudly I may be willing to assist in restocking your wallet.


 
  
 Make sure you guys add us on PSN.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Make sure you guys add us on PSN.


 
  
 Adding everyone but Change, got it!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Make sure you guys add us on PSN.


 
  
 You can add me now.  My name is the same as on here.  I forget your name cus it's different.


----------



## Change is Good

That's kuzz I'm a gangsta' on PSN lol. Try to pick up BF4 guys


----------



## imac2much

Add me as well! My PSN Id is the same as my name here.
 I actually do not have a PS4 anymore (for obvious reasons), but I do hope to get one again in the future.  I'd love to play Destiny or whatever the season flavor du jour is in the future 
  
 I just found out that I can get AKG headphones in China for relatively comparable prices to the US using Taobao (Chinese ebay).  I was limiting myself to Chinese headphones such as Hifiman HE-400 and Soundmagic HP-200 because all non-Chinese headphones are marked up horribly on Amazon China... but now that it looks like I can get pretty much any headphone for a normal price on Taobao, I'm probably going to go after the K712 in a couple months (unless the upcoming HE-400i is a noticeable upgrade)


----------



## jaysins

So a couple months after finding this thread I've ended up with a mixamp pro, k712 headphones, Xonar ST sound card, modmic 4.0. I hope I'm done for a while . Is anyone getting Destiny on the One? Need more people to play with


----------



## IBIubbleTea

jaysins said:


> So a couple months after finding this thread I've ended up with a mixamp pro, k712 headphones, Xonar ST sound card, modmic 4.0. I hope I'm done for a while . Is anyone getting Destiny on the One? Need more people to play with


 
 if you dont mind me asking, how much did you get the K712 for?


----------



## Yethal

Since there is a possibility that some of You already have TLoU remastered, I gotta ask, is there really a graphics quality difference between 30fps vs 60 fps and is it noticeable enough to care?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Bought the M-100 connected to the Iphone 5 but in these few hours (5) I really struggle to feel them. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 http://www.head-fi.org/t/623238/ultrasone-signature-dj/1920#post_10754401


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> Since there is a possibility that some of You already have TLoU remastered, I gotta ask, is there really a graphics quality difference between 30fps vs 60 fps and is it noticeable enough to care?




I think it's very noticeable, 60 frames is buttery smooth. The game looks fab!


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Since there is a possibility that some of You already have TLoU remastered, I gotta ask, is there really a graphics quality difference between 30fps vs 60 fps and is it noticeable enough to care?



Ooh, I have difficulty describing a framerate difference as a graphics quality change... IMO graphics are more about color and detail. Doubling the framerate to 60 does make a big difference in the visual experience however, because animation can be more subtle and the smoothness feels extra polished.

I remember Rayman 2 and Crazy Taxi being so cool to see at 60 FPS on the Dreamcast, it really is preferable for most gaming (unless retro-styled).




fegefeuer said:


> Bought the M-100 connected to the Iphone 5 but in these few hours (5) I really struggle to feel them.   http://www.head-fi.org/t/623238/ultrasone-signature-dj/1920#post_10754401



I'm not exactly sure what you mean, I can definitely "feel them" after about 30-45 minutes, takes a lot of willpower to wear them longer than that  I do like them as portables, but I should either get the XL pads or sell them.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> I think it's very noticeable, 60 frames is buttery smooth. The game looks fab!


 
 Thanks for the input but that's not what I meant, there are rumors of improved shadows/lightning/etc while playing in 30fps mode and that's what I'm asking about


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> Thanks for the input but that's not what I meant, there are rumors of improved shadows/lightning/etc while playing in 30fps mode and that's what I'm asking about


 
  
 "Just" better shadows.
  
 http://i.minus.com/ibojKCm4PedVbF.gif


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> "Just" better shadows.
> 
> http://i.minus.com/ibojKCm4PedVbF.gif


 
 I can live with that, going to buy it soon


----------



## lenroot77

Oops oops sorry... Wasnt fully awake yet.


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> Oops oops sorry... Wasnt fully awake yet.



Nothing to apologize for... It wasn't exactly clear what Borat was asking. The blank has been filled now though, all is good (thanks Feg)


----------



## Yethal

Thanks for all Your input guys. Gonna pick it up soon. On a completely unrelated note, my Modmic came in mail today. It's actually great aside from the fact that it has 3m cable which combined with 3m cable of hd598 makes unbelievabele mess on my desk. Hoping for ver. 4.5 with detachable cable or v-moda boom pro with 4pole 2.5mm jack


----------



## martin vegas

mrmartinvegas on ps4 if you want to add me..the last of us remastered comes out on Friday here in England..looking forward to it,i watched the making of it on youtube!


----------



## theragekage

Jealous of all you PS4 owners right about now. The xbone will be my main, but I've always been a two system guy up until this generation. 

PSA: buy everything you want BEFORE you get married.


----------



## benbenkr

So regarding TLoU Remastered, remember a few weeks ago I posted this?
  


> Audio has gotten a significant improvement, with more options to customize your setup. For audiophiles playing with high-end stereo headsets, you’ll be able to change the azimuth (to tune alignment and timing for better synchronicity across the channels). You can also decide whether your center channel plays dialog, dialog and sound effects, or nothing at all.
> 
> Source


 
  
 Turns out to be utter bs. There are no such advanced options in the game that allows this. It's the same options that were already on the PS3 version and on the Uncharted games, where by you can switch the speakers to "small" or "big" and have a few in-game EQ to switch to depending on speaker setup.

 Dissapointed at the bs ND, or GameInformer for spewing bs as well.


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> Jealous of all you PS4 owners right about now. The xbone will be my main, but I've always been a two system guy up until this generation.
> 
> PSA: buy everything you want BEFORE you get married.


 
 Nothing wrong with an Xbone main, served me well since last November.  I only got a PS4 because for $200... how can you not?


----------



## Yethal

Isn't marriage supposed to be eternal co-op?


----------



## jaysins

ibiubbletea said:


> if you dont mind me asking, how much did you get the K712 for?


 
 I bought them used on this site with the 02 dac/amp, $550 total for both. I'm very happy with my purchase.


----------



## jaysins

I'm really disappointed with how both systems are handling audio for the most part. The machines are more than powerful enough and the software to send out virtual surround sound through just about any output port is already there. I wish I could plug my headphone and amp directly into the controller and not have to worry about so many wires and such. I get great sound between all my peripherals but man, is it ever a mess and annoying having to setup everything when moving from PC to console, or just getting the stuff out of the way so it looks uncluttered.


----------



## martin vegas

jaysins said:


> I'm really disappointed with how both systems are handling audio for the most part. The machines are more than powerful enough and the software to send out virtual surround sound through just about any output port is already there. I wish I could plug my headphone and amp directly into the controller and not have to worry about so many wires and such. I get great sound between all my peripherals but man, is it ever a mess and annoying having to setup everything when moving from PC to console, or just getting the stuff out of the way so it looks uncluttered.


 

 They should bring a sennheiser headset out with dolby headphone that works with the ps4 and xbox one..just plug in and play like the pc363d is for pc!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> They should bring a sennheiser headset out with dolby headphone that works with the ps4 and xbox one..just plug in and play like the pc363d is for pc!


 
 Unfortunately, Xbone doesn't let you do chat through USB so you'd still need a cable to the controller (and a $25 adapter).  Stupid MS.  >.<


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Unfortunately, Xbone doesn't let you do chat through USB so you'd still need a cable to the controller (and a $25 adapter).  Stupid MS.  >.<


 
 You're kidding right? They're still not doing this? Jeez #teamsony


----------



## Murder Mike

martin vegas said:


> Are you sure it says that it's working? seems a bit too good to be true..ps4's seem to keep their price even pre-owned!


 
 Cowboom is pretty popular over here in the US. They're owned by Best Buy. I've bought many things from them and have never had a problem. The items usually come in better than described condition. Also, they have fantastic customer service if you do have a problem.


----------



## Atlantes

Does anyone know how the gaming performance is with the SoundMAGIC HP150?


----------



## AxelCloris

atlantes said:


> Does anyone know how the gaming performance is with the SoundMAGIC HP150?


 
  
 Not yet, but Change will soon. Because the bug will inevitably bite and he'll order a pair just to hear them for himself. I mean, I just bought something new, so now he has to as well, right? Isn't that how it works?


----------



## conquerator2

Do add me guys. Just bought a PS4 today (along with TLoU and Infamous).
 ID: conquerator3
 I will be on soon


----------



## tacomang

Hey guys,
  
 I'm at a dilemma here. I like to game a lot on my PC and I'm looking to add a new microphone for my ATH-M50s because the current Zalman zm-mic1 that I've been using for the past year are, IMO, quite terrible (I have to speak up very loudly even with the mic right next to me, the alternative being sacrifice static noise for increased sound).
  
 I've been doing some research and it's come down to purchasing either the Antlion ModMic 4.0 + Syba USB Audio Adapter (to get rid of that static noise WHICH I've heard happens because of an onboard audio related issue) or the Steelseries Siberia v2 Dota edition. I want to buy this edition of the headset because it comes with an in-game item that I can sell for ~$40 on the Steam Community Market, making the total cost to be around $55 as well as having more COMFORTABLE headset to wear (people say the v2 is VERY comfortable to wear, and I have a pretty big head). The ModMic+Adapter would end up being slightly more expensive, ~$62, though I would get the sound quality of a studio headphone like the M50s. What're your guy's opinions on this?


----------



## Stillhart

atlantes said:


> Does anyone know how the gaming performance is with the SoundMAGIC HP150?


 
  
 The consensus is that it's just a slightly modified HP100 with the same drivers and perhaps slightly different sound because of the new enclosures.  Pretty much assume it's the HP100 and performs the same way.
  


conquerator2 said:


> Do add me guys. Just bought a PS4 today (along with TLoU and Infamous).
> ID: conquerator3
> I will be on soon


 
  
 Done.  Nice profile pic.  o.O
  


tacomang said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm at a dilemma here. I like to game a lot on my PC and I'm looking to add a new microphone for my ATH-M50s because the current Zalman zm-mic1 that I've been using for the past year are, IMO, quite terrible (I have to speak up very loudly even with the mic right next to me, the alternative being sacrifice static noise for increased sound).
> 
> I've been doing some research and it's come down to purchasing either the Antlion ModMic 4.0 + Syba USB Audio Adapter (to get rid of that static noise WHICH I've heard happens because of an onboard audio related issue) or the Steelseries Siberia v2 Dota edition. I want to buy this edition of the headset because it comes with an in-game item that I can sell for ~$40 on the Steam Community Market, making the total cost to be around $55 as well as having more COMFORTABLE headset to wear (people say the v2 is VERY comfortable to wear, and I have a pretty big head). The ModMic+Adapter would end up being slightly more expensive, ~$62, though I would get the sound quality of a studio headphone like the M50s. What're your guy's opinions on this?


 
  
 If you're gaming on your PC, get a cheap desktop mic.  No need to get a modmic and definitely no need to downgrade your headphones.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

tacomang said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm at a dilemma here. I like to game a lot on my PC and I'm looking to add a new microphone for my ATH-M50s because the current Zalman zm-mic1 that I've been using for the past year are, IMO, quite terrible (I have to speak up very loudly even with the mic right next to me, the alternative being sacrifice static noise for increased sound).
> 
> I've been doing some research and it's come down to purchasing either the Antlion ModMic 4.0 + Syba USB Audio Adapter (to get rid of that static noise WHICH I've heard happens because of an onboard audio related issue) or the Steelseries Siberia v2 Dota edition. I want to buy this edition of the headset because it comes with an in-game item that I can sell for ~$40 on the Steam Community Market, making the total cost to be around $55 as well as having more COMFORTABLE headset to wear (people say the v2 is VERY comfortable to wear, and I have a pretty big head). The ModMic+Adapter would end up being slightly more expensive, ~$62, though I would get the sound quality of a studio headphone like the M50s. What're your guy's opinions on this?




I have the v2s and the M50s. I would go for the v2s for gaming. The M50s are not good for gaming plus the v2 is comfy as ****. It's gets a little sweaty after a few hours of gaming because of the pleather pads, but not too bad. 

I've seen the cs:go v2 on Walmart for as low as $65 last time I checked. They look pretty cool.


----------



## Yethal

tacomang said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm at a dilemma here. I like to game a lot on my PC and I'm looking to add a new microphone for my ATH-M50s because the current Zalman zm-mic1 that I've been using for the past year are, IMO, quite terrible (I have to speak up very loudly even with the mic right next to me, the alternative being sacrifice static noise for increased sound).
> 
> I've been doing some research and it's come down to purchasing either the Antlion ModMic 4.0 + Syba USB Audio Adapter (to get rid of that static noise WHICH I've heard happens because of an onboard audio related issue) or the Steelseries Siberia v2 Dota edition. I want to buy this edition of the headset because it comes with an in-game item that I can sell for ~$40 on the Steam Community Market, making the total cost to be around $55 as well as having more COMFORTABLE headset to wear (people say the v2 is VERY comfortable to wear, and I have a pretty big head). The ModMic+Adapter would end up being slightly more expensive, ~$62, though I would get the sound quality of a studio headphone like the M50s. What're your guy's opinions on this?


 
 Siberias v2 are in fact extremely comfy although for the price You can pick up something with much better audio quality (siberias are mediocre at best) the mic extending from the earcup is cool though
  
 Also, is there anybody here that's still playing Battlefield 4 on ps4? What's the point of having a mic if You're playing with randoms


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Siberias v2 are in fact extremely comfy although for the price You can pick up something with much better audio quality (siberias are mediocre at best) the mic extending from the earcup is cool though
> 
> *Also, is there anybody here that's still playing Battlefield 4 on ps4?* What's the point of having a mic if You're playing with randoms


 
 I'm pretty sure that's all that Change plays... lol


----------



## FangJoker

stillhart said:


> The consensus is that it's just a slightly modified HP100 with the same drivers and perhaps slightly different sound because of the new enclosures.  Pretty much assume it's the HP100 and performs the same way.
> 
> 
> Done.  Nice profile pic.  o.O
> ...


 
  
  
 I ordered a blue snowball mic that will be connected to the fragbox via usb and i'll use my jvc FX850 through either a RSA predator, schiit uberfrost and valhalla though spdif on the asus stx soundcard for dolby or i can choose another usb option that is directly from the box to the dac and amp.  I don't know why I have so many options.  I really should have 2 options at the most.  Maybe I need to sell something.


----------



## Stillhart

vegasf1 said:


> I ordered a blue snowball mic that will be connected to the fragbox via usb and i'll use my jvc FX850 through either a RSA predator, schiit uberfrost and valhalla though spdif on the asus stx soundcard for dolby or i can choose another usb option that is directly from the box to the dac and amp.  I don't know why I have so many options.  I really should have 2 options at the most.  Maybe I need to sell something.


 
 Nah, you just need more computers so the option:computer ratio drops to a more respectable 1:1.
  
 Oh and.. OMG another Vegas head-fi'er!
  
 EDIT - Oh and I got the thumbs up from the wife on the PS4.  Woo!


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Nah, you just need more computers so the option:computer ratio drops to a more respectable 1:1.
> 
> Oh and.. OMG another Vegas head-fi'er!
> 
> EDIT - Oh and I got the thumbs up from the wife on the PS4.  Woo!


 
 See You on the battlefield soldier! also add me, psn id same as here


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Nah, you just need more computers so the option:computer ratio drops to a more respectable 1:1.
> 
> Oh and.. OMG another Vegas head-fi'er!
> 
> EDIT - Oh and I got the thumbs up from the wife on the PS4.  Woo!


 


yethal said:


> See You on the battlefield soldier! also add me, psn id same as here


 

 I play battlefield 4,  mrmartinvegas is my psn if anyone wants to add me!


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm... I wouldn't count on the Steam community market definitely netting you $40, unless you know the market very well and know there's strong demand for it. Also consider that you could keep using the ModMic (or a USB mic since you're on PC) after buying any other headphone if you get the upgrade bug.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I'm pretty sure that's all that Change plays... lol




About 90% of the time... LoL

Picked up TLoU, today, though...


----------



## tacomang

yethal said:


> Siberias v2 are in fact extremely comfy although for the price You can pick up something with much better audio quality (siberias are mediocre at best) the mic extending from the earcup is cool though
> 
> Also, is there anybody here that's still playing Battlefield 4 on ps4? What's the point of having a mic if You're playing with randoms


 
  
 Hey Yethal, thanks for the response.
  
 I see in your signature that you use a Sennheiser HD598. I've done some research on it and now I'm having second thoughts with my purchase of the Siberia v2. I could always return it, and with some of that money use it to buy an HD598.
  
 I could upgrade my m50 (which have served me well for the past 2 years) to the HD598. With my m50, my ears tend to get scrunched up and uncomfortable due to its clamp. Is the comfortableness of the HD 598 as good as they say it is? It looks super comfortable. Also, does the bass on the HD 598s really fall short from what I've heard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Siberia V2 is a candidate for driver and pad swap, because it's design screams comfort. I wonder what drivers would fit, and I wonder what non-pleather pads would also fit.


----------



## imac2much

Hey everyone, quick question.
 I am still looking to get a good pair of open headphones before I leave the country.  I was discussing this with my wife, and she told me she wanted to buy me a good pair of headphones that will last me a long time for my birthday (which is coming up soon).  I know I was considering the K712 originally, but now my budget is a bit increased 
  
 Does anyone have any opinions on the HE-500 headphones?  Someone is selling them with the jergpads and a 1/4" cable.  I'm concerned that I'd need to buy a new amp though since the Omni doesn't have a 1/4" connection (and it probably isn't powerful enough for the HE-500 anyway).
  
 I'd love to hear impressions of the HE-500 along with an amp that would sound good with it but preferably not more than $100 or so.
 Or if there is another headphone that might be better in the $400-500 range, I'd be happy to hear it, but from my research it seems like the HE-500 is well regarded in this pricerange.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jaysins

I really like the modmic sound quality and being able to hook it up to several different headphones via the magnetic clip. It's a great little device but definitely on the more pricey side and not the biggest fan of the chord. Still, I'm rather happy for it and it suits my purposes well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

imac2much said:


> Hey everyone, quick question.
> I am still looking to get a good pair of open headphones before I leave the country.  I was discussing this with my wife, and she told me she wanted to buy me a good pair of headphones that will last me a long time for my birthday (which is coming up soon).  I know I was considering the K712 originally, but now my budget is a bit increased
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions on the HE-500 headphones?  Someone is selling them with the jergpads and a 1/4" cable.  I'm concerned that I'd need to buy a new amp though since the Omni doesn't have a 1/4" connection (and it probably isn't powerful enough for the HE-500 anyway).
> ...




Hifiman is releasing the HE-400i soon which will be similar to the 500, but lighter and much more comfortable. It will also be cheaper. I suggest waiting for that. If anything, Hifiman ships all over the world, IIRC.


----------



## Yethal

tacomang said:


> Hey Yethal, thanks for the response.
> 
> I see in your signature that you use a Sennheiser HD598. I've done some research on it and now I'm having second thoughts with my purchase of the Siberia v2. I could always return it, and with some of that money use it to buy an HD598.
> 
> I could upgrade my m50 (which have served me well for the past 2 years) to the HD598. With my m50, my ears tend to get scrunched up and uncomfortable due to its clamp. Is the comfortableness of the HD 598 as good as they say it is? It looks super comfortable. Also, does the bass on the HD 598s really fall short from what I've heard?


 
 Well, I can't really feel the 598s when I'm using them, not a single part of my head feels discomfort. I wear them all the time from when I get back to from work till midnight (not a fan of speakers) and sometimes I forget that I'm wearing them. But everybody's head is different so YMMV. MLE didn't like them but I'm guessing his head is just bigger than mine
  
 Comfort is something very personal so trying them out before purchase would be a good thing, where I live some stores put headphones on stands for customers to try them out with their own source. That worked for me.
  
 As for the siberias, my roommate has them and apart from this "my head is permanently fused to the headphones" feeling and retractable mic there is no reason to buy them, also mic is of mediocre quality.
  
 The 598 bass can be best described as present. When listening to bass heavy or bass only songs you can definitely hear its there but it won't blow you away, and definitely won't drown mids and highs. It is still enjoyable though. Keep in mind that I don't heavy any bass heavy headphones to make a comparison
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> Siberia V2 is a candidate for driver and pad swap, because it's design screams comfort. I wonder what drivers would fit, and I wonder what non-pleather pads would also fit.


 
 I can take them apart and take measurements if You want.


----------



## AxelCloris

Since we're on the topic of PS4, mine has shipped. Woot! I'll be joining my friends soon. Now I just need to track down someone willing to sell me BF4 for $20. I'm sure they exist somewhere. I'm AxelCloris on PSN if you guys want to add me. Haven't figured out how to add friends via their website yet so I may have to wait till the PS4 arrives. I haven't touched PSN in years, since before I sold off the PS3.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Since we're on the topic of PS4, mine has shipped. Woot! I'll be joining my friends soon. Now I just need to track down someone willing to sell me BF4 for $20. I'm sure they exist somewhere. I'm AxelCloris on PSN if you guys want to add me. Haven't figured out how to add friends via their website yet so I may have to wait till the PS4 arrives. I haven't touched PSN in years, since before I sold off the PS3.


 
 It's easiest to add friends from the Playstation app, IMO.  I couldn't figure out the website either.
  
 BF4?  Really?  Just get TLOU and take your time with that for 5 weeks... Also the free stuff from PS+.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

Hooked up my e12 to my mixamp and plugged in my seberia v2s to the e12 and the mic doesn't work...

Don't know what the problem is. Anyone have an idea?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> It's easiest to add friends from the Playstation app, IMO.  I couldn't figure out the website either.
> 
> *BF4?  Really?*  Just get TLOU and take your time with that for 5 weeks... Also the free stuff from PS+.




And your problem with it is?

Stop trying to sway my recruits away, budd... we all get the urge to blow schiit up from time to time. I just like to do it 90% of it...

BTW, Zombie just got a One... hit em up to add em...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The E12 (or any audiophile amp/dac that I know of) don't tend to retain the mic channel. You'll need a headset splitter cable... one that plugs from your V2 and splits the audio and mic channel. Then you'll need ANOTHER adapter to rejoin them (once you added the E12 to the audio mix). Your Mixamp may have come with the latter.

Wasn't aware the V2 needed the additional amping.



The Green side plugs to the E12. from the E12's line out, it will go to the green female adapter shown below.

The Pink side plugs to the pink female side of this adapter:



This adapter will then plug into the mixamp.

If it sounds like more trouble than it's worth, that's because it is. This is why I personally don't use headphones/headsets that need amping if I'm chatting with others. It's cumbersome. I prefer just sticking the headset directly to the Mixamp. I mainly use amps between my headphone and Mixamp if I'm not voice chatting/using hard to drive headphones.


Again, the reason to have both these adapters is to be able to introduce an amp between your headphone and the Mixamp, while retaining voice chat capabilities.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> And your problem with it is?
> 
> Stop trying to sway my recruits away, budd... we all get the urge to blow schiit up from time to time. I just like to do it 90% of it...
> 
> BTW, Zombie just got a One... hit em up to add em...


 

 Dropping c4 on tanks from the building above them never gets boring!


----------



## imac2much

mad lust envy said:


> Hifiman is releasing the HE-400i soon which will be similar to the 500, but lighter and much more comfortable. It will also be cheaper. I suggest waiting for that. If anything, Hifiman ships all over the world, IIRC.


 
 Thanks MLE.  However, I know the HE-400i will be $500 retail at launch and probably won't drop to 350-400 until a year passes (similar to the previous Hifiman models).  I'm able to get the HE-500 with jergpads for $400 so that is why I am considering them now, even though they may be heavy. 
  
 I was just wondering if anyone here had experiences with the HE-500 before, esp for gaming purposes.  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a good deal then. I have a suspicion the 400i won't be better than the 500, and most likely be on equal or lesser terms, as far as sound quality is concerned. So if you don't mind a very, very headphone, I don't think the 500 will disappoint.

From all I hear and have known of the 500, it will sound great, but not be particularly suited for gaming, due to smaller soundstage, and intimacy. However, the same thing can be said of something like the LCD2, which even though isn';t particularly special in terms of gaming prowess, sounds so good, I would still use it for that purpose.


----------



## martin vegas

Comes out today in North America!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> And your problem with it is?
> 
> Stop trying to sway my recruits away, budd... we all get the urge to blow schiit up from time to time. I just like to do it 90% of it...
> 
> BTW, Zombie just got a One... hit em up to add em...


 
  
 HA!  You're too easy man!  I was just giving you ****.  Good to know Zombie got a xbox!  I'll PM him, thx!
  


martin vegas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




  
 That pricing isn't particularly compelling to me.  But I suppose if you're the type of person who devours a game and then sells it to Gamestop, this kind of thing could pretty attractive. $6 for 7 days?  Many people beat Watch Dogs in less time than that.  That's probably worth $6.  Doesn't work for me and my gaming schedule tho.  :-/


----------



## imac2much

mad lust envy said:


> That's a good deal then. I have a suspicion the 400i won't be better than the 500, and most likely be on equal or lesser terms, as far as sound quality is concerned. So if you don't mind a very, very headphone, I don't think the 500 will disappoint.
> 
> From all I hear and have known of the 500, it will sound great, but not be particularly suited for gaming, due to smaller soundstage, and intimacy. However, the same thing can be said of something like the LCD2, which even though isn';t particularly special in terms of gaming prowess, sounds so good, I would still use it for that purpose.


 
 Thanks MLE.
 I will probably bite on this deal then and get a speaker amp.  I've been using headphones for 75% music and only 25% games lately, so I think this is a good deal for me.
 I'll share my thoughts when I get them next week.  I just hope they aren't too heavy!!!


----------



## martin vegas

I bought a arcam r pac today for my pc I use for browsing the web and watching youtube..it might work with ps4,i will give it a try and get back to you..tried the r pac with ps4 over usb and it didn't work, r pac is going back it sounds crap!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> HA!  *You're too easy man!  I was just giving you ****.*  Good to know Zombie got a xbox!  I'll PM him, thx!




Lies...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Lies...


 
  
Would I lie to you?


----------



## Change is Good

Gawd I hate the word "statistics." Makes me cringe...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Gawd I hate the word "*BF4*." Makes me cringe...


 
  
 I know, right?


----------



## Change is Good

That's it I'm reporting you...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> That's it I'm kissing you...


 
  
 Oh, Change!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Oh, Evshrug!




Yes, we know he's one sexy beast...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Would I lie to you?
> 
> 
> *And later:*
> Oh Evshrug!





change is good said:


> Yes, we know he's one sexy beast...


----------



## alpha storm

Hello there,
 I've started one thread and redirected here.
 Here is my question :
 I'm more of a gamer and music fan.
 I've a creative ZXR sbx card and wanna use it for gaming and music.
 I don't own any amp or dac or whatsoever.
 for the past years I've been using gaming headset with virtual surround sound but now I wanna use sound card and audiophile headphone.
 Here is my priorities :
 1- large and big sound stage
 2- I'm not bass head but like bass more than treable because very highs pierce my head
 3- I've had big head and prefer big cups
 4- I like closed back more than open but sound stage is very very more than important to me
 These are my options :
 First if you think there is another pair please don't hesitate to tell me.
 1- HD 800
 2- HD 700
 3- HD 650
 4- DT 990 600 ohm
 5- DT 990 250 ohm
 6- K701
 7- K712
 8- Denon 7000
 9- Denon 7100
 10- T1
 11- T90
 12- Razer Kraken Forged
 And one another question :
 I wanna use creative surround sound but is there any headphone amp or dac that I can connect to ZXR and benefit its sbx system without any distortion?
 Because I've heard that I can't use PC virtual surround sound with dacs.
 Thanks in advance for your time and help


----------



## Evshrug

Alpha,
This thread is about surround gaming with consoles, so generally we don't know much about PC sound cards...
That said, read the headphone reviews in the first post, that should give you some idea about many headphones (and several on your list).
Also, Creative sound cards do support sending SBX headphone surround processing out through optical (so you could connect an optical DAC), if you want to do that you might as well get the cheaper (and smaller, for better airflow in your desktop tower) soundblaster Z.

Your headphone list is all over the map, with price from ~$200 to $1500, and totally different sound signatures. I wouldn't dare make a suggestion for you, instead I'd recommend reading the many reviews on this site and picking a headphone with characteristics that seem appealing to you.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Lies...


 
  
 Nah, you're pretty easy.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Nah, you're pretty easy.




For you're sexy self... yes I am...


----------



## conquerator2

As a new PS4 owner I am pretty overwhelmed... After reading all the fluff and negativity on the next generation consoles being just low end PCs and the jump being rather small... I must say I disagree! The jump from PS3 is rather drastic IMO. 
Everything just works. It's fast there's multitasking, game lead fast and look and run great...
So much is happening I feel like that kido first time in a supermarket again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All those games on the Now Beta, and not one is free so we can TEST the damn thing. Like 5 dollars for a 4 HOUR rental? You've gotta be ****ing kidding me. I know it's a Beta, and yet, they should have at least ONE game to test out. But no, they immediately try to get you to fork over money.

No trial, no interest.


----------



## Change is Good

The whole thing has been a gimmick since its announcement. Only having the option to rent is a freakin rip off, if you ask me. I hope it fails so they will then have no choice but to sell the damn games... with the option to download.


----------



## Yethal

I had to setup a fake us account for it to work and then connect through a proxy. All the hassle to check if it works. It doesn't. so much time wasted.
  
 Also the siberias v2 earcups look pretty much the same size as Fidelio X1 earcups so try with x1 drivers. @Mad Lust Envy


----------



## Stillhart

I think it's not a bad idea for single player games you play through and then sell.  Watch Dogs would be great... $15 for a month, beat it, never think of it again.  It's a better deal than buying it new and then selling it to Gamestop a month later.
  
 Then again, if Sony would just make it a subscription-based service like Netflix, they will OWN this gen.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> I think it's not a bad idea for single player games you play through and then sell.  Watch Dogs would be great... $15 for a month, beat it, never think of it again.  It's a better deal than buying it new and then selling it to Gamestop a month later.
> 
> Then again, if Sony would just make it a subscription-based service like Netflix, they will OWN this gen.




I am sure now that they have the foundation laid out, they can tweak the subscription model instead of making it an overpriced rental service... 
The way it seems to me now is that it indeed is a bit of a ripoff especially value wise.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> I think it's not a bad idea for single player games you play through and then sell.  Watch Dogs would be great... $15 for a month, beat it, never think of it again.  It's a better deal than buying it new and then selling it to Gamestop a month later.
> 
> Then again, if Sony would just make it a subscription-based service like Netflix, they will OWN this gen.


 

 I agree if they do them for less than what it is to buy the game and trade it in it will be a good idea, i traded in watchdogs and infamous second son after i completed them both in a week..we probably won't end up with top titles like the ps3 had on ps+ because of this playstation now!


----------



## weremichael

Greetings,

I went through the first page (reviews) and the last 15 pages of this thread and have a question regarding headset recommendation for the PS4. I am making a small gaming room where I will use the headset exclusively for sound and online chat during long Destiny (and other games) gaming binges.

I have a set of Sony gold headsets that my wife will be using when we play Destiny together and they sound ok (not great compared to my 5.1 Denon/PSB setup in the living room). I've read the reviews of the PLYR1 and they seem to be the top recommended all in one headset for the PS4. I've also considered the SteelSeries H headset due to their reviews. I'm leaning toward wireless, but can be persuaded to go wired if I can get better sound for less money *My budget is $300.*

Can I get a recommendation from y'all on a PS4 headset setup in my price range?


----------



## martin vegas

The arcam rpac I just bought is going back..it sounds crap..none of them usb powered portable dacs are any good!


----------



## Swordchan

So guys.. Im upgrading from Sennheiser pc 360. Will there be a *big* upgrade if i buy one of these 3 ?  AKG k702 or the q model,  or akg k712?
 I will be using the Creative soundblaster Z Or ZxR. Haven't decided 100% yet.


----------



## Stillhart

weremichael said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I went through the first page (reviews) and the last 15 pages of this thread and have a question regarding headset recommendation for the PS4. I am making a small gaming room where I will use the headset exclusively for sound and online chat during long Destiny (and other games) gaming binges.
> 
> ...


 
  
 PLYR1 is pretty solid for an all-in-one wireless solution.  I had one for a bit, but ended up returning it.  See, I also had purchased a Recon3D and a Q701 and the AKG just blows the Skullcandy away.  They're like in a different tier.
  
 With a $300 budget, if you can swing wired, I highly recommend just getting a Mixamp or Recon and something like a K612 and a cheap clip-on mic.  You can also troll eBay for a cheap wireless Mixamp 5.8.  I got mine for $40 shipped!  That's a great budget and you should be able to find plenty of solid solutions.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> PLYR1 is pretty solid for an all-in-one wireless solution.  I had one for a bit, but ended up returning it.  See, I also had purchased a Recon3D and a Q701 and the AKG just blows the Skullcandy away.  They're like in a different tier.
> 
> With a $300 budget, if you can swing wired, I highly *recommend just getting a Mixamp or Recon and something like a K612* and a cheap clip-on mic.  You can also troll eBay for a cheap wireless Mixamp 5.8.  I got mine for $40 shipped!  That's a great budget and you should be able to find plenty of solid solutions.




He will need an amp for the K612, for sure. Might be better off with the Q's, or something efficient like the SMs.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> He will need an amp for the K612, for sure. Might be better off with the Q's, or something efficient like the SMs.




Thing about the 120 ohm K612 though, yes you'll need to crank the volume higher, but assuming it has the same/similar sensitivity then the amp wouldn't have to be able to pump more current into less voltage like the K702/Q701 that have 62 Ohms. So as long as the amp can be turned loud enough, then it's more likely to also have enough current and sound good.

Anyway, a Recon3D USB will take care of USB mic hookup (just buy a cheap lapel mic, like a Neweer 3-pack for $6), and then the K612 (will sound better with an amp, even a cheap FiiO E11 will allow the wife to adjust volume from her chair, but without an amp it will have less fatiguing highs than an unamped Q701). Cool thing about the Recon3D USB is that it's a nicely streamlined setup: you get mic+chat audio without plugging anything into a controller, so your controller is untethered, and the Recon3D USB comes with a nice flat-cable extension cord that resists tangles and is the only thing between your seat and the TV area while playing. Also, mic gain boost works, so she can make the mic louder if she has to talk quietly yet still be heard over game sounds. The only weaknesses IMO of the Recon3D is that it has the weakest amp of the console surround processors, and she won't be able to tune the chat:game volume balance. Neither was a big issue for me.

Other options: turtle beach is coming out with a new TAC unit, but I haven't had any hands-on time with it. Sennheiser also has a few wireless headphones that are supposed to be good with some built-in surround, but you'd have to figure out chat/mic. I already detailed my top recommendation first thing


----------



## tacomang

Well guys I returned my Siberia v2 earlier this week. I jumped the gun and went ahead and bought myself a pair of Sennheiser HD 598s. Got them in the mail today and I'll take a listen to them as soon as I get home! Hoping for some good results! I wonder how they'll compare to my m50s.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Thing about the 120 ohm K612 though, yes you'll need to crank the volume higher, but assuming it has the same/similar sensitivity then the amp wouldn't have to be able to pump more current into less voltage like the K702/Q701 that have 62 Ohms. So as long as the amp can be turned loud enough, then it's more likely to also have enough current and sound good.
> 
> Anyway, a Recon3D USB will take care of USB mic hookup (just buy a cheap lapel mic, like a Neweer 3-pack for $6), and then the K612 (will sound better with an amp, even a cheap FiiO E11 will allow the wife to adjust volume from her chair, but without an amp it will have less fatiguing highs than an unamped Q701). Cool thing about the Recon3D USB is that it's a nicely streamlined setup: you get mic+chat audio without plugging anything into a controller, so your controller is untethered, and the Recon3D USB comes with a nice flat-cable extension cord that resists tangles and is the only thing between your seat and the TV area while playing. Also, mic gain boost works, so she can make the mic louder if she has to talk quietly yet still be heard over game sounds. The only weaknesses IMO of the Recon3D is that it has the weakest amp of the console surround processors, and she won't be able to tune the chat:game volume balance. Neither was a big issue for me.
> 
> Other options: turtle beach is coming out with a new TAC unit, but I haven't had any hands-on time with it. Sennheiser also has a few wireless headphones that are supposed to be good with some built-in surround, but you'd have to figure out chat/mic. I already detailed my top recommendation first thing


 
 My biggest issue with the Recon was the lack of chat/game balance and the weak amp.  It's not really great for using with the Q701 because of that.  You have to turn the in-game sound way down so the chat becomes louder by default.  Then you have to turn the whole thing up on the amp... if you headphones are hard to drive, this just won't get loud enough.  Of course, it does have the advantages Evs listed (mic gain is huge) so it's a give n take.
  
 Something like the SoundMAGIC HP150 or HP200 will be a lot easier to drive, as Change said, and might work better with a Recon.
  
 With my Mixamp 5.8, I don't have any issue with it getting loud enough or with chat balance.  Hence the Mixamp + K612 or Q701 recommendation.  If you go with something like the Recon, check out the SoundMAGIC.


----------



## Evshrug

The only time I had a problem with chat/game audio balance was with Halo 4, that game is LOUD (especially warthogs), but I mentioned it because others might care more. For me, the Mixamp (even the "wireless" one) is a spiderweb's setup, and I had to buy an adapter to use a non-inline mic.

I have a question for Weremichael though, are you guys playing out of earshot? Probably, and I know a few other people that play that way.


----------



## Stillhart

If anyone doesn't have it yet, you can order The Last of Us from Target.com for *store pickup* and get $10 off.


----------



## weremichael

evshrug said:


> The only time I had a problem with chat/game audio balance was with Halo 4, that game is LOUD (especially warthogs), but I mentioned it because others might care more. For me, the Mixamp (even the "wireless" one) is a spiderweb's setup, and I had to buy an adapter to use a non-inline mic.
> 
> I have a question for Weremichael though, are you guys playing out of earshot? Probably, and I know a few other people that play that way.




I'll be in the basement and she'll be on the main floor. We'll also be playing with friends over PSN.

So those of you recommending a wired setup: I'll run toslink and usb from the PS4 to the recon or mixamp and then the headphones and mic to the usb mixer, is that correct? So you keep the mixer close to during that setup for adjustments, right? 

I do want the mixing of in-game vs game chat to be easy. I struggle enough with playing that I don't need another thing to make gaming more difficult. So will a wired setup be more troublesome than a wireless one?

As far as phones go,I have never heard of soundmagic, so researched them. Upon research, I've learned that my old Superlux HD 681 are actually pretty decent headphones and I can replace the pleather ear pads with some made from velour (my biggest complaint with the headphones is the pleather). Anyone run the 681s with a console? Would that be a decent path to a wired setup?

Amy other recommendations?


----------



## Stillhart

weremichael said:


> I'll be in the basement and she'll be on the main floor. We'll also be playing with friends over PSN.
> 
> So those of you recommending a wired setup: I'll run toslink and usb from the PS4 to the recon or mixamp and then the headphones and mic to the usb mixer, is that correct? So you keep the mixer close to during that setup for adjustments, right?
> 
> ...


 
  
 One of my annoyances with the wired devices (like the Recon) is that the volume control stays near the TV.  With the wireless Mixamp, you have it right next to you on the couch.  Groovy.  (With the PLYR1, you have it right on your ear.)
  
 Then again, when I playing in the "man cave" with my Recon these days, I don't actually have much reason to adjust the volume.  It's kind of set and forget if there's nothing loud going on in the house (which there generally isn't cuz I play when the kid is asleep).
  
 I guess you have to decide if you value convenience more than sound quality.  For convenience factor, the PLYR1 is the easy choice; wireless, surround, mic, headphones all in one.  Not the greatest sound quality but not bad by any means.
  
 If you are half and half, get a Mixamp or Recon and nice headphones.  
  
 If you're all about maximizing you experience, spend a few weeks on eBay trying to snipe a cheap Wireless Mixamp and then get some good headphones.


----------



## weremichael

stillhart said:


> If you're all about maximizing you experience, spend a few weeks on eBay trying to snipe a cheap Wireless Mixamp and then get some good headphones.




Are you talking about finding an Astro Gaming Wireless MixAmp 5.8? That would allow me to plug a wired headset and wired mic to the volume control next to me?


----------



## Stillhart

weremichael said:


> Are you talking about finding an Astro Gaming Wireless MixAmp 5.8? That would allow me to plug a wired headset and wired mic to the volume control next to me?


 
  
 Precisely!


----------



## Change is Good

I just realized I've owned my 1540 for ten months, now. It really is end game for what I was seeking in a closed headphone...


----------



## Evshrug

What if you include the time with the first one you had, before you had to sell it?


----------



## Change is Good

That never happened with this headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

Different Shure then? I remember it hurt your heart a bit, but if you hadn't, then you wouldn't have found the new audio love of your life.


----------



## Change is Good

I've gone through so many headphones, I can't even remember lol. I have own two other Shures (840 and 1840), though, so you may be right. I think it was the 1840, hurt when I had sold it, but soon after discovered the K612 for a fraction of the cost.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I've gone through so many headphones, I can't even remember lol. I have own two other Shures (840 and 1840), though, so you may be right. I think it was the 1840, hurt when I had sold it, but soon after discovered the K612 for a fraction of the cost.


 

 I have the 1540, I use them with a Apollo twin and MacBook pro for recording music and video editing p.s I can't believe any of them portable usb dac/headphone amps get good reviews on what hifi!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I went and rented killzone 3 for Playstation Now. One thing is for certain: Playstation Now is (at least currently, in the BETA) only outputting in stereo. Absolutely no virtual surround cues. Just left/right and in between. In fact, rear cues actually sounded like they were in front of me for some reason.

latency is decent, and quality is... well i never played this game, so I can't be certain it isn't compressded looking in comparison to the game running off the PS3 itself, instead of the PS4 through streaming.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> I went and rented killzone 3 for Playstation Now. One thing is for certain: Playstation Now is (at least currently, in the BETA) only outputting in stereo. Absolutely no virtual surround cues. Just left/right and in between. In fact, rear cues actually sounded like they were in front of me for some reason.
> 
> latency is decent, and quality is... well i never played this game, so I can't be certain it isn't compressded looking in comparison to the game running off the PS3 itself, instead of the PS4 through streaming.


 

 I just want to play the original silent hill and resident evil 2 when now finally comes to England!


----------



## Yethal

They need at least 10x servers for PS Now to fly. Right now lag is too noticeable.
  
 On a completely unrelated note, is there anybody who has Astros A50 and wishes to give the new usb transmitter a shot?


----------



## gerpogi

For the sb omni owners, I have a question :

Is there a way to just turn omni into an amp and amp up the volume for my mobo's realtek driver (alc892)?
I just wanted to test my motherboards realtek driver software's features and such but the volume is kinda low if I just plug in my headphones directly...
 So yeah is that possible?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> They need at least 10x servers for PS Now to fly. Right now lag is too noticeable.
> 
> On a completely unrelated note, is there anybody who has Astros A50 and wishes to give the new usb transmitter a shot?




Dunno how good your connection is, but the lag is minimal for me. It is definitely there, but a non-timing sensitive game wouldn't have problems at all. I get more lag streaming to the Vita than I do with PS Now.

Killzone 3 is a bad game to test though, since KZ has always had like a built in lag to the controls to give you a feel of 'added weight', which I think is utter BS. PS Now doesn't do KZ3 any favors.


----------



## Stillhart

gerpogi said:


> For the sb omni owners, I have a question :
> 
> Is there a way to just turn omni into an amp and amp up the volume for my mobo's realtek driver (alc892)?
> I just wanted to test my motherboards realtek driver software's features and such but the volume is kinda low if I just plug in my headphones directly...
> So yeah is that possible?


 
 Not that I know of, sorry.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Dunno how good your connection is, but the lag is minimal for me. It is definitely there, but a non-timing sensitive game wouldn't have problems at all. I get more lag streaming to the Vita than I do with PS Now.
> 
> Killzone 3 is a bad game to test though, since KZ has always had like a built in lag to the controls to give you a feel of 'added weight', which I think is utter BS. PS Now doesn't do KZ3 any favors.


 
 I can't even connect to it 90% of the time, the network test fails more often than not


----------



## Change is Good

^You're going to have to upgrade your internet, I believe. Do a network connection test under settings to check your download and upload speed.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> ^You're going to have to upgrade your internet, I believe. Do a network connection test under settings to check your download and upload speed.


 
 Nah, I'm pretty sure the cause of this is that I'm based in Europe and I use US-based proxy server to connect. Still, the netcode could have been better


----------



## weibz

alpha storm said:


> Hello there,
> I've started one thread and redirected here.
> Here is my question :
> I'm more of a gamer and music fan.
> ...


 
  
 I have Soundblaster Z, and ive tried AD700, Sennheiser PC360, and Q701. Q701 is the best for competitive use in CS:GO.


----------



## DesmondKSA

What is the best sound card for Philips Fidelio X1. Because this headphone needs 500 mW


----------



## imac2much

Played some Homefront today with my Omni and HP100.  Homefront has some janky issues regarding sound, but the surround sound is pretty noticeable in the first stage, especially when a tank comes by destroying all your cover.  
  
 I also played some Blops 2 today, and the extra polish is immediately noticeable.  The sound quality is fantastic, but sometimes the vocals sound a bit distant with the Omni.  I didn't have this problem with Homefront so I'm not sure what is causing that.  Also, I don't know if this is normal, but whenever I adjust volume using the Omni, I get kicked out of my full screen game... not a big deal because I don't have to adjust volume too often, but still rather annoying.


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> Played some Homefront today with my Omni and HP100.  Homefront has some janky issues regarding sound, but the surround sound is pretty noticeable in the first stage, especially when a tank comes by destroying all your cover.
> 
> I also played some Blops 2 today, and the extra polish is immediately noticeable.  The sound quality is fantastic, but sometimes the vocals sound a bit distant with the Omni.  I didn't have this problem with Homefront so I'm not sure what is causing that.  Also, I don't know if this is normal, but whenever I adjust volume using the Omni, I get kicked out of my full screen game... not a big deal because I don't have to adjust volume too often, but still rather annoying.


 
 I play in windowed-fullscreen whever it's offered.  This lets you alt-tab without drama and would likely fix this issue as well.


----------



## AxelCloris

If anyone's still awake, come join me in watching @Change is Good get his butt eaten in _The Last of Us_.
  
 http://www.twitch.tv/infamouscartel


----------



## Change is Good

I keep getting owned on survivor difficulty. Also had to restart the stream because the game froze :/


----------



## Silverwind

imac2much said:


> Played some Homefront today with my Omni and HP100.  Homefront has some janky issues regarding sound, but the surround sound is pretty noticeable in the first stage, especially when a tank comes by destroying all your cover.
> 
> I also played some Blops 2 today, and the extra polish is immediately noticeable.  The sound quality is fantastic, but sometimes the vocals sound a bit distant with the Omni.  I didn't have this problem with Homefront so I'm not sure what is causing that.  Also, I don't know if this is normal, but whenever I adjust volume using the Omni, I get kicked out of my full screen game... not a big deal because I don't have to adjust volume too often, but still rather annoying.




I haven't experienced any game exiting when adjusting the volume knob on the OMNI. Have not played those games you mentioned, though, perhaps it is a bug specific to one of them.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I keep getting owned on survivor difficulty. Also had to restart the stream because the game froze :/


 
 I got totally stuck last night and had to look up a Youtube walkthrough to find the tiny little hidden hole in the wall in the completely pitch black room.  I walked by it like 10 times and couldn't find it.  I even HEARD the wind blowing from that direction and couldn't find it.  Blergh. (Props to them for having the wind sound as the hint to where to go tho!)
  
 BTW, this game has some fantastic surround cues and audio overall.  There's one point towards the beginning where you're walking out in the rain and then you walk through a cargo container.  The sound of the rain on the ground turns into the sound of rain on the tin roof.  It's really really well done.
  
 This is probably the most immersive gaming experience I've had since I joined head-fi.  The surround cues in Titanfall and CoD help those games a lot, but playing such an atmospheric game as TLOU and having such great audio is really amazing.  
  
 For all our talk of the "perfect" headphones for gaming, it's all about how the games make use of them.  Folks who agonize over the K612 vs the HD598 vs the X1, etc... just pick one and get back to gaming IMO.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> I got totally stuck last night and had to look up a Youtube walkthrough to find the tiny little hidden hole in the wall in the completely pitch black room.  I walked by it like 10 times and couldn't find it.  I even HEARD the wind blowing from that direction and couldn't find it.  Blergh. (Props to them for having the wind sound as the hint to where to go tho!)
> 
> *BTW, this game has some fantastic surround cues and audio overall.  There's one point towards the beginning where you're walking out in the rain and then you walk through a cargo container.  The sound of the rain on the ground turns into the sound of rain on the tin roof.  It's really really well done.*
> 
> ...


 
 Absolutely my opinion. TLoU has one of the best sound design AND one of the most accurate and immersive audio as well.
 Playing Second Son now and the audio is nowhere near as accurate. SQ is good and accuracy is okay but TLoU beats it by a mile + it has a tweakable azimuth setting [which I haven't messed around with... any suggestions?]
  
 Hands down one of my best experiences with games in all aspects then.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Absolutely my opinion. TLoU has one of the best sound design AND one of the most accurate and immersive audio as well.
> Playing Second Son now and the audio is nowhere near as accurate. SQ is good and accuracy is okay but TLoU beats it by a mile + *it has a tweakable azimuth setting [which I haven't messed around with... any suggestions?]*
> 
> Hands down one of my best experiences with games in all aspects then.




I would suggest setting audio options to headphones, 5.1, wide or maximum (whichever you prefer), and lastly 70/140 is my preferred setting for positioning


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> I would suggest setting audio options to headphones, 5.1, wide or maximum (whichever you prefer), and lastly 70/140 is my preferred setting for positioning


 
 Yeah, I do maximum range but I have it set up to studio reference, not headphones [according to ND studio reference is for studio monitoring headphones so...]
 I'll try your azimuth settings. seem well spread out.
 Cheers


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, I do maximum range but I have it set up to studio reference, not headphones [according to ND studio reference is for studio monitoring headphones so...]
> I'll try your azimuth settings. seem well spread out.
> Cheers


 
 I think I just set mine to 5.1 and forgot about it.  Seems to be working fine for me!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I think I just set mine to 5.1 and forgot about it.  Seems to be working fine for me!


 
  
 What are your positional settings?


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> I think I just set mine to 5.1 and forgot about it.  Seems to be working fine for me!


 

 Hows the ps4,did it come in good condition?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> What are your positional settings?


 
  
 I dunno, whatever the default was.  I didn't bother changing it since I don't have actual speakers setup.
  


martin vegas said:


> Hows the ps4,did it come in good condition?


 
  
 The box was in crap condition but everything else is working fine.  The CD drive makes noise sometimes, not sure if I want to take issue with that or not.  But since I plan on going all digital, I don't think I'll bother doing anything about it.  Also, it was clearly used by a smoker.
  
 But for $200, can't complain and won't!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> I dunno, whatever the default was.  I didn't bother changing it since I don't have actual speakers setup.
> 
> 
> The box was in crap condition but everything else is working fine.  The CD drive makes noise sometimes, not sure if I want to take issue with that or not.  But since I plan on going all digital, I don't think I'll bother doing anything about it.  Also, it was clearly used by a smoker.
> ...




Play around with them for a bit. I think the default (Home Theatre) is the one actually for speakers. Under device options there are quite a few to choose from. I had it on headphones, but am now going to try Studio Reference as conq suggested. Also, make sure you play with the azimuths to you're liking


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> I dunno, whatever the default was.  I didn't bother changing it since I don't have actual speakers setup.
> 
> 
> The box was in crap condition but everything else is working fine.  The CD drive makes noise sometimes, not sure if I want to take issue with that or not.  But since I plan on going all digital, I don't think I'll bother doing anything about it.  Also, it was clearly used by a smoker.
> ...


 

 Mine was brand new and the cd drive makes a noise sometimes..nothing to worry about mate!


----------



## blueforests

Hi All,
  
 I have been reading the conversation about mixamps a few pages back and i was wondering if anyone could help me out with a similar situation but I'm in the UK, which makes getting cheap Astro's etc a little difficult.
  
 My set up is Ad700's and a cheap attachable mic, for PS4.
  
 the only thing i could find is this:
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Astro-gaming-5-8-TX-mixamp-/321479151633?pt=UK_Video_Games_Headsets&hash=item4ad9a69011
  
 Is that better than something like this?:
  
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DSS2-Dolby-Processor-CAN-EU/dp/B0077MEDTI/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1407188336&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=mixamp
  
 Are there any other options for someone in the UK? Astro's arn't even really sold on amazon and their site sells them for over £120.
  
 Looking for an ideal way to have my mic and headphones work together while getting good quality audio.
  
 Thanks all!


----------



## Stillhart

blueforests said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have been reading the conversation about mixamps a few pages back and i was wondering if anyone could help me out with a similar situation but I'm in the UK, which makes getting cheap Astro's etc a little difficult.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That Astro is the transmitter only so it won't work for you.  The DSS2 will work fine.  You might also see if you can find a Sound Blaster Recon3D USB.


----------



## ursow94

Comparing the new AD700X with the Q701, what will be better for Competitive FPS gaming? I read the AD700X has a worst build quality then the AD700, the Q701 will be better in this case?
 Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Mine was brand new and the cd drive makes a noise sometimes..nothing to worry about mate!



I agree, mine does too but it's not a grinding noise. And at any rate, it's WAY quieter than my Xbox!





ursow94 said:


> Comparing the new AD700X with the Q701, what will be better for Competitive FPS gaming? I read that the AD700X has worse build quality than the AD700, will the Q701 be better in this case?
> 
> Thanks



I can only speak from experience about the AD700 and Q701, I'd say that they were fairly evenly matched and neither seemed to have a durability concern for indoor use. I've read other users of either state that sometimes the plastic might creak, but neither of mine were probe to creaking while wearing them. The AD700 were notably lighter weight, which some might feel is a sign of bad quality BUT lighter weight is a lot more comfortable in long gaming sessions. The replaceable Q701 cable has already saved me from having to replace the whole headphone.

For competitive gaming, they're about equal, the AD700 might be less distracting with bass sounds but they have pretty much equal soundstage and the Q701 is a bit more forward and convincing of "realism." You can't go wrong with either, but I ended up keeping the Q701 because it was more interesting to listen to for music and movies (so primarily used for games, but it was great for everything). The two Audio Technicas are also great values tho.


----------



## Stillhart

ursow94 said:


> Comparing the new AD700X with the Q701, what will be better for Competitive FPS gaming? I read the AD700X has a worst build quality then the AD700, the Q701 will be better in this case?
> Thanks


 
  
 I haven't heard the AT's.  Based on what I've read, you're kinda splitting hairs with which is better as they're both top-tier.


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> I play in windowed-fullscreen whever it's offered.  This lets you alt-tab without drama and would likely fix this issue as well.


 
  
 I used to do that on my desktop.  Unfortunately now that I am moving I can only play on my laptop, which is a lot less powerful.  For many games I need to play on 720p instead of the native 1080p in order to maintain 60 fps 


silverwind said:


> I haven't experienced any game exiting when adjusting the volume knob on the OMNI. Have not played those games you mentioned, though, perhaps it is a bug specific to one of them.


 
 Yeah it seems like it only happened in BLOPS II (didn't try it a second time though).  I played some Jazzpunk today and had no issues controlling volume through the Omni in-game.  Weird.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

imac2much said:


> I used to do that on my desktop.  Unfortunately now that I am moving I can only play on my laptop, which is a lot less powerful.  For many games I need to play on 720p instead of the native 1080p in order to maintain 60 fps
> Yeah it seems like it only happened in BLOPS II (didn't try it a second time though).  I played some Jazzpunk today and had no issues controlling volume through the Omni in-game.  Weird.




Do you tweak in game settings? There are a few settings that can make FPS nosedive.

I honestly don't know why people just go straight for Ultra settings and get pissed off when it doesn't hit FPS. They can seriously just go to Custom, max out everything except a few things, and be the equivalent of Ultra without some of the things that hurt FPS by a ton. On my Alienware laptop, I found that shadow quality, high anti-aliasing, are two of the most taxing settings. 

If I lower shadow quality to normal instead of max on some games, I sometimes gain around 20 FPS. And the difference between max and normal is that shadows may look a little less sharper. It isn't something you almost ever notice, and shadows rarely ever look super sharp in real life either unless you have a bright light source next to the object.

As for AA, when playing in 1080p, the difference between 2x and 4x is so miniscule, it really isn't worth the FPS penalty, and the difference between 4x and 8x are...well, I can't see it unless I'm straining my eyes in certain places. For me, this setting depends on the game. Some games I can run 8x MSAA and it still stays at 60fps, but for the most part, I leave it at FXAA (which has almost no performance lost whatsoever compared to no AA at all), and if the game can handle it, I'll put it at 2x MSAA.

People need to understand that Ultra maxes out some of these settings that give you ver, very little actual benefit, and it's much more worthwhile to lower them to normal levels as you can't see the benefit anyways.

Also, make sure to have an FPS counter like FRAPS or DXtory to test your games and see which settings impact FPS the most.

Other settings that I've noticed harm my fps:

Ambient Occlusion (I can still run this on normal most of the time for 60fps). This setting is also one of those that can impact performance bya lot, but gain very little going from a normal to Ultra. Some games run it better than others. It is worth having on, but just test to see if your PC can handle it well enough MAX, or lower it to around normal.

Tessellation: This is single-handedly one of the most demanding, and WORTH having on. Always, always try having this maxed, and tweak everything else. If all else fails, turning this off will make your FPS skyrocket but you lose the next gen looking textures. I did turn it off on Sniper 2: Ghost Warrior and Batman: Arkham City, as those game was super demanding on my PC (I could never reach 60fps until I turned this off).

Unreal Engine and my laptop aren't the best of friends.


----------



## AxelCloris

Sony PlayStation Gold wireless headset for $40 at TigerDirect. It does involve a rebate which could bother some. But seems like a good deal to me. Can't speak to their sound quality. I hear the surround processing is about on-par with the Razer Surround, so if that's true then it's not amazing.
  
 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9048066&CatId=3900
  
 And it looks like the Xbox One headset is the same price, again after rebate. Not wireless.
  
 http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8907134&CatId=8895


----------



## imac2much

Thanks MLE for the tips. 
 However, I'm aware of most of those fps saving techniques, and I agree with you that most of those settings are not worth enabling.  On my desktop, I routinely use normal or lower settings for shadows, and lower settings for AA.  I also generally turn off ambient occlusion.  I'm able to get 50-60 fps on most games at 1080p (sometimes even at 1440p if I turn off AA entirely, which isn't really necessary at such a high resolution for me).
  
 However, my laptop is much weaker than my PC, haha (I don't have an Alienware machine).  So even with all those fps saving tips, I generally do not get 60 fps at 1080p in demanding games.


----------



## xero404

I just wanted to thank MLE for making this thread. It's been a year since looking for a replacement for my hd280s for gaming and now my Trifecta is complete. One open, one closed and one portable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is that a black Alpha Dog? I thought MrSpeakers wasn't gonna use black? It looks amazing.

Man, I'm jealous. Both an AD AND LCD2. HRRRRRGH!


----------



## xero404

Yeah Jumped at the black when they got released (good thing my upgrade was just at the right time). Although, when i saw the claret in person it much more showy than the blacks.
  
 I thought i was done with the Alpha Dog... but the Audeze booth at SF headphone meet got the best of me and the WANT began....  Brian at Razordog audio made me an offer i couldn't refuse. The subbass is just at another level with these LCD 2's need some time to adjust to the sound sig but so far so good (Fiance says she's glad she doesn't have to tap my shoulder to get my attention now lol).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. The LCD2 is my favorite sounding headphone outside of the D7000. The LCD2 is just soooooo inviting. Is yours a new one, or a pre-fazor? I hear the new ones are more neutral, so I think iff I was gonna get an LCD2, I'd want an earlier LCD2 Rev. 2 which was warm and smoother.


----------



## xero404

They are Fazor ones. Never got to hear the rev 2.2s, i was looking at used ones after the meet but this deal for a brand new one was too hard to pass up. I hope the headphone bug doesn't come around again and i can stay happy lol. Good thing the next meet isn't until next year.


----------



## chicolom

Since I have both cards, I made a video comparing Dolby Headphone and SBX Pro Studio.
  
_The only other video I could find on YouTube comparing them was that Battlefield 3 one._
  
 Let me know what you think...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very noice. I'll check it out later. Think you can find a good spot in the game where you can just repeatedly check an audio cue? Like something on fire, etc? Also, how did you manage to record the audio? And game as well.

I'd like to do this myself, but no idea how to go about it.


----------



## chicolom

I recorded the video with Nvidia shadow play, which is like a built in video capture feature on newer Nvidia cards. Works great. Looks much nicer on my PC though, before youtube gets a hold of it and demolishes the frame rate and compresses it down. 

Audio was recorded from the line out the FiiO D03K (for both) to the line in on a Tascam DR-40 recorder.

I just liked that clip because that monster sounds pretty bad a$S in surround, especially the LFE sounds it makes. You can hear how the two dsps deal with those LFE sounds a bit. 

Granted, I had the "bass" effect turned off on the SBX . I need to mess with that more. I'm not a fan of the "crystalizer" though, which makes the highs too bright.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I used FRAPS and grabbed the audio directly from the Windows Mixer. That way only youtube can mess (most) with the sound. I understand your approach though as shadowplay doesn't cost anything. 
  
 Crystallizer and that Bass Boost are very useless. Crystallizer also messes with spatial cues a bit.


----------



## theragekage

ursow94 said:


> Comparing the new AD700X with the Q701, what will be better for Competitive FPS gaming? I read the AD700X has a worst build quality then the AD700, the Q701 will be better in this case?
> 
> Thanks




I own both the AD700x and Q701 so maybe I can speak to this. Evshrug and stillhart are both right, the differences between the two are moot. Both are in the upper echelon for competitive gaming. The only reason I "upgraded" from the AD700x was purely because I wanted to use the Q701s for music listening purposes as well. The AD700x is pure gaming bliss for a competitive FPS. If you go the q701 route you would also likely have to buy an amp so even though I would recommend the q701 over the ad700x, if it is for purely FPS gaming, you will be more than happy with the 700x. 

As for build quality, I had zero issues with the AD700x. Yes there is a lot of plastic but it seems that the headphone will hold up just fine over time. My only gripe was that the wings on the headband would cause the earcups to slide down over time, causing constant readjustments mid game. This can be easily fixed by doing the "rubber band mod" and isn't too much of an issue. Other than that they are extremely comfortable. The Q's are as well, but a lot of (myself included) have an issue with the bumps on the headband. This is also an easy fix as you can buy a wrap on eBay, a baby seatbelt wrap (sounds strange but it works), or just mod your headband if you are brave enough. 

TL;DR - AD700x is a great headphone and build quality shouldn't be too much of a concern for the price paid.


----------



## Naingolann

Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!


----------



## Fegefeuer

naingolann said:


> Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!


 
  
 I agree. It has the best compromise of sound quality and positioning. That's why it's also the best choice the higher you go in the headphone "ladder". Now it's time for DTS HPX to show its muscles. Haven't seen a sound card yet though and the TAC only does AC3 to DTS HPX. 
  
 SBX-cards with X-Fi style legacy support could have been glorious though. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 At least give us a ******* MacroFX/Elevation switch in the panel, Creative.


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> Since I have both cards, I made a video comparing Dolby Headphone and SBX Pro Studio.
> 
> _The only other video I could find on YouTube comparing them was that Battlefield 3 one._
> 
> ...




  
 Absolutely wonderful!  Mad, you should really add this to the guide.  This is a really helpful video.  It also reinforces my opinion that SBX sounds much better to my ears.  The spacial cues are significantly better for me.


naingolann said:


> Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!


 
  
 No, I agree with you, which is why I have 2 Recons and an Omni.  The only reason I'm using a Mixamp 5.8 is because I need/want wireless in my main living room because I sit so far from the TV.
  
 I agree with Feg tho, looking forward to DTS Headphone X.  Feg, can you elaborate on the comment about the TAC?  It won't process actual DTS?


----------



## conquerator2

The question is, however, how do these compare on a gaming console [PS3/4, 360/One] where there's no possibility of tweaking anything via software...
 That's my  ultimate question


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> The question is, however, how do these compare on a gaming console [PS3/4, 360/One] where there's no possibility of tweaking anything via software...
> That's my  ultimate question


 
  
 You can actually tweak the Recon on the PC, save the settings and then use it on the console.


----------



## Watchthemfall

First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
  
 So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
  
 Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> You can actually tweak the Recon on the PC, save the settings and then use it on the console.



Ok, I caved... I'll do a direct comparison.


EDIT; Nah, I think I'll stick to DH for now


----------



## Stillhart

watchthemfall said:


> First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
> 
> So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
> 
> Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 The built-in amp on the Z is adequate.  It will certainly provide enough volume for all of your needs.  A dedicated amp will provide more power, though, and improve the sound on some headphones that are hungry for power.
  
 The K612 and the X1 will both sound fine without an additional amp, and they both have headroom to improve if you do decide to amp them later.  I don't know enough about the HP200, but I understand it doesn't have high amping requirements so it should sound plenty fine as well.  
  
 You probably can't go wrong with any of those headphones; they're all very well-regarded.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> I used FRAPS and grabbed the audio directly from the Windows Mixer. That way only youtube can mess (most) with the sound. I understand your approach though as shadowplay doesn't cost anything.
> 
> Crystallizer and that Bass Boost are very useless. Crystallizer also messes with spatial cues a bit.


 
  
  
 Hmm...I tried that, but I'm still not getting the final Dolby Headphone output.  It's just recording either stereo or the multi-channel audio, but you are still missing the final Dolby Headphone DSP output that happens outside the PC on the Xonar.
  
 How are you recording the actual _DSP output_ digitally?
  
  
 Do you know what changes when you raise the SBX surround slider from 66% to 100%?  I don't hear a ton of difference between them. 
 I assumed it was some sort of wet/dry mix. 
  


naingolann said:


> Great video chicolom, thanks! Am I wrong in saying that SBX Pro Studio sounds overall clearer and less echoey~ish than DH? Rear cues seem better too. I'm digging it!


 
  
 Thanks.
  
 And no, you're not wrong - SBX is definitely clearer and less echoey sounding than DH.  Sounds are more chiseled out from each other and their placement is more discrete sounding, making it easier to hear when they start to move around.  Because DH is more diffuse and blended, it's not quite as clear with positioning.  SBX is definitely truer to the source audio, and less "processed" sounding.
  
 Still, I often enjoy that more diffuse sound of Dolby Headphone.  Sounds are a little smoother and more blended together when panning.  The echo/reverb can actually be nice if you're playing a game where you are "indoors", like on a spaceship in Deadspace.  Gives a nice bit of ambience, where SBX can sometimes sound a tad too dry.  The overall sound is a little warmer on DH, with a little more body and impact on some lower freq sounds too. 
  
 Sound effects also tend to sound a bit "larger" and "bigger" with DH, giving bit more of an immersive and cinematic sound.  On some games, I get an impression of more overall soundstage distance (things just being farther away sounding) with DH, which I tend to enjoy.
  
 I enjoy them both.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
_But still bring on the newer DSPs!!_


----------



## PurpleAngel

watchthemfall said:


> First of all, thank you for this thread. It has been very helpful when looking for new headphones.
> 
> So, I have been using my AD700s for 4 years now, and I'm looking for a new pair to go with my new sound card. I've decided between the K612 Pro, Philips Philips Fidelio X1, and SoundMAGIC HP200. I just ordered a Sound Blaster Z that has a "600 Ohm Maxim MAX97220 amp" a few days ago. I am, however, not looking to buy a dedicated amp. My question is which of these headphones would work best with just the built in amp on the sound card? I've searched around, but I have had a hard time pinpointing exactly how good the built in amp is (I'm very new to this). I will use these headphones for games, movies, and music roughly equally.
> 
> Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated.


 
  
 The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
 So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line
  
 I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.
  
 Headphone impedance's.
 SoundMagic HP 200  20-Ohms
 Philips Fidelio X1        30-Ohms
 AKG K612 Pro          120-Ohms


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> Do you know what changes when you raise the SBX surround slider from 66% to 100%?  I don't hear a ton of difference between them.
> I assumed it was some sort of wet/dry mix.


 
  
 I don't know exactly what changes, but I feel like the 66% works better for me for some reason.  I think the 100% sounds closer to DH, while the 66% makes it easier for me to isolate the positional cues.


----------



## Watchthemfall

purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
> So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line
> 
> I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.
> ...


 
 So does this mean the closer the headphone impedance is to 8 times the output of the sound card the better it will sound? (Meaning the AKG K612 will work best with the SB-Z?) I'm really just wanting this to sound noticeably better than AD700 with my setup. I've never really used any headphones other than my AD700s so I'm very new to what sounds "decent". I just don't want something that sounds worse or very close to the same as what I have, which would just be a waste of money.


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z is thought to have a headphone output with a 22-Ohm impedance, technically for best detail in the audio, you would want to use headphone that have at leave 8 times the impedance of the source (SB-Z)
> So headphones an impedance of 176-Ohms or higher (22 X 8 = 176) is recommended, but think of it more as a very lose guide line
> 
> I tried my 40-Ohm ATH-A900X headphones with the SB-Z and sound quality was still decent.
> ...




But does the 8x impedance guideline "technically" result in increased detail, or was NwAvGuy's blogger post more about how Sennheisers don't have flat impedance response, and if you use an amp with a high output impedance (and quite possibly many other design factors not taken into account) the result is more bass on top of the HD650's already higher neutral bass and subsequently some looser bass that bleeds over the mids (like many headphones with that much bass in their frequency curves already)? Do "most" headphones have noticeably nonlinear impedance response curves like NwAvGuy claims, or are we making assumptions because one guy who was banned said something that sounded plausible even though in many ways that banned guy misses/omits the bigger picture?



This isn't meant to discredit you, PurpleAngel (you know I like you), that whole paragraph above is meant to make you think "is there holes in either theory?" before passing along advice. You yourself said your 40-ohm Audio Technica's sounded decent, I'm just saying maybe there's more to the quality of an amp than output impedance, current, and voltage.

Conjecture and assumptions lead to beliefs like the earth is flat, and at the center of the universe, and that an amp is suited for the portable role even if it's too big for most pockets and all the connections and controls should be clustered on the front face.


----------



## Evshrug

watchthemfall said:


> So does this mean the closer the headphone impedance is to 8 times the output of the sound card the better it will sound? (Meaning the AKG K612 will work best with the SB-Z?) I'm really just wanting this to sound noticeably better than AD700 with my setup. I've never really used any headphones other than my AD700s so I'm very new to what sounds "decent". I just don't want something that sounds worse or very close to the same as what I have, which would just be a waste of money.




Just FYI, an iPod classic has an output impedance of 10 Ohms, and people have raved about how good that device can sound even with expensive 32 ohm headphones. I think there's "more to it" in good amping than output impedance dampening.

The AD700 already is more than a "decent" headphone, with great detail, soundstage, and treble "sparkle." What the X1 and K612 would give you is a more engaging "filled out" sound with better bass presence/extension, and a presentation highlighting different parts of a song, not (really) more detail or soundstage. Of the four you mentioned (I included the AD700), the K612 will have the best balance and "all around" sound suitability compared to the others and do everything well. The AD700 have probably the best soundstage and a "bright" leaning sound, the X1 will have a more bass-emphasized sound (good some music genres, out of balance for other uses and maybe distracting during competitive gaming), and the Soundmagic HP-200 (I know little about) is a closed headphone that will be useful in some environments but retain more heat in warm environs/longer listening sessions. All have positive aspects and will please you in certain ways. Since nobody can tell you what to like, I suggest you buy the headphone that sounds the most appealing to you, they're all good and popular.


----------



## chicolom

Anyone played with any of these newer external Creative cards?
  
 Pages say they all do SBX Pro...
  
 http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-play-2
 http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e1
 http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e3


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Anyone played with any of these newer external Creative cards?
> 
> Pages say they all do SBX Pro...


 
  
 Only mention I've seen of it is the review from ClieOS on the front page. Sounds interesting but limited.


----------



## Change is Good

Depending on the price, I may pick one up for my tablet


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> But does the 8x impedance guideline "technically" result in increased detail, or was NwAvGuy's blogger post more about how Sennheisers don't have flat impedance response, and if you use an amp with a high output impedance (and quite possibly many other design factors not taken into account) the result is more bass on top of the HD650's already higher neutral bass and subsequently some looser bass that bleeds over the mids (like many headphones with that much bass in their frequency curves already)? Do "most" headphones have noticeably nonlinear impedance response curves like NwAvGuy claims, or are we making assumptions because one guy who was banned said something that sounded plausible even though in many ways that banned guy misses/omits the bigger picture?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looking at some lower ohm Senns and some have a flat impedance response and others have a bump in the bass. I only found the bass to get muddy on the ones that have a bump in the bass in the impedance response. When I briefly had the Momentum On-ears which have a flat impedance response, I didn't find the bass to muddy up and bloat up like it did on my PX-100 ii or HD 239 on higher output impedance outputs and it has a lower ohm rating than either, the PX-100 ii and HD 239 have a moderate bump in the bass region for their ohm rating. I remember my AKG K240 MKII bloating up a bit in the bass(more upper bass than the mid-bass in Senns) as well but it also has a bump in the bass region.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> snip
> 
> and the Soundmagic HP-200 (I know little about) *is a closed headphone *that will be useful in some environments but retain more heat in warm environs/longer listening sessions. All have positive aspects and will please you in certain ways. Since nobody can tell you what to like, I suggest you buy the headphone that sounds the most appealing to you, they're all good and popular.


 
 The HP100 is closed.  The HP200 is open.  The HP100 is a very neutral frequency response, does everything well, beautiful all-arounder.    The HP200, I've been told, is a little warmer and has a different sound signature.  Change can comment more on it.


----------



## Change is Good

The HP200 is actually more neutral than the closed HP100, which is slightly v-shaped. Both are great choices, just depends on whether the buyer wants open or closed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

watchthemfall said:


> So does this mean the closer the headphone impedance is to 8 times the output of the sound card the better it will sound? (Meaning the AKG K612 will work best with the SB-Z?) I'm really just wanting this to sound noticeably better than AD700 with my setup. I've never really used any headphones other than my AD700s so I'm very new to what sounds "decent". I just don't want something that sounds worse or very close to the same as what I have, which would just be a waste of money.


 
  
 I'm far from a headphone audio expert, so I like to just throw in my 2 cents to hopefully help someone get a good audio setup.
 The ATH-AD700 are good sounding headphones, they just lack any real bass (their only real negative).
 In theory the (120-Ohm) AKG K612 Pros, should work the best with the SB-Z, compared to the two other headphones you listed.
 But unless you can plug all three headphones into a SB-Z and compare them, there is no way i could say its "fact" that the AKG k612 Pro will sound the best (plugged into the SB-Z).
 The Sound magic is not really a well know name brand and the HP 200 retails for more then the AKG K612s, so market forces sees the HP 200 as better (better sounding?) then the K612 Pros, even with AKG having name recognition over Sound Magic.
 The Philips Fidelio X1 way out price the AKG K612s, that a negative for the K612s
 I do not own the K612 Pros, but I do seem to have a soft spot for them, so I might have some weird biased in my opinions.
  
 Some headphones seem to be more effected by the Ohm differences then others (Ohms is not the only factor in driving headphones, there is also "Sensitivity", which I'm still learning about),
 I plug my AD700s into my Yamaha RX-V671 A/V receiver (high impedance headphone output) and I can't get them loud, no matter how high i turn up the volume.
 Where as when i plug in my 50-Ohm HD558s and they sound great and have no problem getting loud, normally I plug my 250-Ohm and 600-Ohm headphones into my Yamaha receiver


----------



## kman1211

stillhart said:


> The HP100 is closed.  The HP200 is open.  The HP100 is a very neutral frequency response, does everything well, beautiful all-arounder.    The HP200, I've been told, is a little warmer and has a different sound signature.  Change can comment more on it.


 

 I am quite curious about the Sound Magic headphones. Maybe I will pick up a pair in the future, if I get one it will probably be the HP150. I personally just got a closed-back though that is considered an all-rounder and a good gaming closed-back from what I've read, the Beyerdynamic DT 150, can't wait for it to arrive. Maybe I'll get the HP150 and compare the two.


----------



## PurpleAngel

evshrug said:


> But does the 8x impedance guideline "technically" result in increased detail, or was NwAvGuy's blogger post more about how Sennheisers don't have flat impedance response, and if you use an amp with a high output impedance (and quite possibly many other design factors not taken into account) the result is more bass on top of the HD650's already higher neutral bass and subsequently some looser bass that bleeds over the mids (like many headphones with that much bass in their frequency curves already)? Do "most" headphones have noticeably nonlinear impedance response curves like NwAvGuy claims, or are we making assumptions because one guy who was banned said something that sounded plausible even though in many ways that banned guy misses/omits the bigger picture?
> This isn't meant to discredit you, PurpleAngel (you know I like you), that whole paragraph above is meant to make you think "is there holes in either theory?" before passing along advice. You yourself said your 40-ohm Audio Technica's sounded decent, I'm just saying maybe there's more to the quality of an amp than output impedance, current, and voltage.
> Conjecture and assumptions lead to beliefs like the earth is flat, and at the center of the universe, and that an amp is suited for the portable role even if it's too big for most pockets and all the connections and controls should be clustered on the front face.


 
  
 I do somewhat base what I say on what the NwAvguy says and somewhat my experiences try all my (20) headphones in all my (7) different available headphone amplifiers.
 So after stating the 8X impedance issue, I said it's a very lose guide line and stated that my 40-ohm headphones did decently well plugged into my SB-Z.
 I think it takes time to write out a good detailed explanation on something and I just do not feel spending 30 minutes on writing several paragraphs to get the details just rights.
 And then spend more time searching around to make sure I got my facts straight and then reediting my writings.
  
 I just hope someone else comes in to fill in details that I do not explain well.
  
 Albert Einstein had a lot of "Conjecture and Assumptions" about the universe, that were not correct, but most people (like 99.9999%) where not smart enough to point them out.
 He is just known for when after years and years he finally came out with some right answers.
  
 I do try to understand why someone designs an headphone amplifier with all the controls and connections in the front panel and not want others to chnage it.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> The HP200 is actually more neutral than the closed HP100, which is slightly v-shaped. Both are great choices, just depends on whether the buyer wants open or closed.


 
 Oh, weird, I thought you said they were warmer.  Oh well, I agree that there's a slight sub-bass hump on the HP100's, but compared to anything else I've ever heard (not a ton, admittedly), it's very neutral overall.  Now I'm even more curious to hear the HP200 if you say it's even more neutral.
  


kman1211 said:


> I am quite curious about the Sound Magic headphones. Maybe I will pick up a pair in the future, if I get one it will probably be the HP150. I personally just got a closed-back though that is considered an all-rounder and a good gaming closed-back from what I've read, the Beyerdynamic DT 150, can't wait for it to arrive. Maybe I'll get the HP150 and compare the two.


 
 Yeah the HP150 is supposed to be basically the same as the HP100 but maybe a little more refined.  If nothing else, it's worth it just for the straight cable.  I'm not really familiar with the DT150, so it'll be nice to hear about it.


----------



## Change is Good

Axel just brought this to my attention, and I hope some of you decide to join us on the battlefield. BF4 is having an appreciation week, I believe, and all their digital content is on sale in the PS Store, even Premium (which never happens).

Edit: I think the sale is for PS Plus members only, which most of you probably already are.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Axel just brought this to my attention, and I hope some of you decide to join us on the battlefield. BF4 is having an appreciation week, I believe, and all their digital content is on sale in the PS Store, even Premium (which never happens).
> 
> Edit: I think the sale is for PS Plus members only, which most of you probably already are.


 
  
 $7 off isn't great, even though it's 20%.  I've never played a BF game, not sure I'll like it.  Maybe I'll try the demo on the PS3 first.  Any ideas how long the sale is for?


----------



## Change is Good

$7 off??? The game is $28 in the PS store dude... and premium is $31.


----------



## FangJoker

I just got a blue snowflake mic to work with teamspeak so that I could use my IEM with it and I'm impressed with the quality of sound.  Definitely blows the zalman clip on or those cheap desktop mics.  To spend 60 bucks and to allow me to use whatever IEM or headphone I want is what I always wanted.  I never liked any of the gaming headsets as I found that they were lacking in the quality of sound and I wasn't about to blow a lot of money on the top of the line senns or beyer gaming headsets when I have perfectly good IEM and headphones and just needed a mic.  Now I can have it all.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> $7 off??? The game is $28 in the PS store dude... and premium is $31.


 
  
The PS store shows $35 as the normal price.  Maybe they dropped the price AND put it on sale?


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> The PS store shows $35 as the normal price.  Maybe they dropped the price AND put it on sale?




$35 is the sale price for those who don't have PS+. So, yes, we get $7 off from the original sale.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> $35 is the sale price for those who don't have PS+. So, yes, we get $7 off from the original sale.


 
 Ooooh, okay.  Well that makes it a much better deal then.  So yeah, how long is the sale?  lol


----------



## Change is Good

My guess is a week, until they update the store next Tuesday.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Ooooh, okay.  Well that makes it a much better deal then.  So yeah, how long is the sale?  lol


 
  
 I'll probably be picking it up tomorrow when my PS4 comes in. Doubt I'll have time to play until Thurs, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I even have a place by the time Destiny comes out, that will be the game I play with you guys.

My roommate is moving out, and my lease is over next month and I have no clue what I'm gonna do, so times are about to get much harder. Not sure I'll be have a place to live (aside from crashing on couches), let alone be able to get anything in the next few months.

What a difference getting paid 2 dollars more an hour would make in my life. I wish I could just afford a small studio apartment. No more relying on roommates.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> If I even have a place by the time Destiny comes out, that will be the game I play with you guys.
> 
> My roommate is moving out, and my lease is over next month and I have no clue what I'm gonna do, so times are about to get much harder. Not sure I'll be have a place to live (aside from crashing on couches), let alone be able to get anything in the next few months.
> 
> What a difference getting paid 2 dollars more an hour would make in my life. Ah well.


 
  
 I hear that my friend. An additional $2/hr is more than $4k over the year. Huge difference. If it's any consolation I could possibly find myself moving to SF in the next few weeks. The land of $2,000/mo apartments, at least that's what they are around where I'll need to be. May have to consider a long commute to save on the monthly rent. I'll probably be making payments on a house in Ohio and an apartment in Cali for a few months at least.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's intense.

I see a studio here for $529/month, and I would LOVE it, but I barely got by paying $385/month for half my current rent.

It really is impossible for those of low income to live alone, when all the bills pile up.

I thought long and hard before I rebought another Sportapro last week, since my KSC75 messed up and needed something for work. $23, and I was stressing it.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> That's intense.
> 
> I see a studio here for $529/month, and I would LOVE it, but I barely got by paying $385/month for half my current rent.
> 
> It really is impossible for those of low income to live alone, when all the bills pile up.


 
  
 Any chances of stepping up to a better paying security group? You have plenty of experience. Also, it may be beneficial to earn your license to carry since armed security pays a whole lot more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I have a friend who might get me in working on driving guarded trucks. If I work nights, it'd be like $3.45 more an hour and i could definitely afford a studio for myself. Of course, it'd be a lot more dangerous, and I need a gun license as well.

He just told me about this today, so we'll see.


----------



## Change is Good

Things are just flat out bad here in most of Florida for the middle class. At least, I can relate with MLE. Decent paying jobs just aren't easy to come by. That, plus many personal reasons is why I went back to school.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm actually, really, REALLY stressed out. On the verge of a breakdown, but I'll keep that way from Head-fi.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I'm actually, really, REALLY stressed out. On the verge of a breakdown, but I'll keep that way from Head-fi.


 
  
 Hit me up anytime outside the forums if you wanna vent, my friend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Vented something fierce yesterday on facebook. Like... shamefully. Amazon stated my delivery was Delivered the day before. Laser Ship LOVES to leave my packages at the front door without knocking or a notice, so when I saw that it said delivered, and there was nothing there... I snapped, it was the last straw amongst the many things that are stressing me out. I was about to call Laser Ship and just curse the hell out of everyone at customer service, but then I read to wait 24 hours, because they sometimes state that it's delivered before they actually deliver. So I waited until today, and it seems it had been sitting at my front door for about 6 hours (I wake up at 10pm for work), as it was wet (rain or sprinklers, I dunno), but my Sportapro and some usb cables I ordered were untouched.

Thankfully, I came to work, snapped on the Sportapro drivers to my KSC75 clips, and listened to music while on patrol. The warmth and fullness literally calmed me down... it had been awhile since I had these.


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> Absolutely wonderful!  Mad, you should really add this to the guide.  This is a really helpful video.  It also reinforces my opinion that SBX sounds much better to my ears.  The spacial cues are significantly better for me.
> 
> No, I agree with you, which is why I have 2 Recons and an Omni.  The only reason I'm using a Mixamp 5.8 is because I need/want wireless in my main living room because I sit so far from the TV.
> 
> I agree with Feg tho, looking forward to DTS Headphone X.  Feg, can you elaborate on the comment about the TAC?  It won't process actual DTS?


 
  
 Turtle Beach gave a somewhat stupid excuse http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added/24660#post_10722037 for not delivering a 1536 kbps DTS Interactive -> DTS Headphone X chain, instead the TAC will "only" receive the usual 640kbs Dolby Digital Live 5.1 signal. For 300$.
  


chicolom said:


> Hmm...I tried that, but I'm still not getting the final Dolby Headphone output.  It's just recording either stereo or the multi-channel audio, but you are still missing the final Dolby Headphone DSP output that happens outside the PC on the Xonar.
> 
> How are you recording the actual _DSP output_ digitally?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't recorded anything in a long time and and I am outsourced away from home for a while so I can't really help you at the moment but iirc I used the stereo option since the output is binaural stereo after all. 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhwUT4BYMk&hd=1

 The chain was always SBZxR/X-Fi -> optical out -> DAC


----------



## NamelessPFG

What's this about a BF4 sale? Maybe if it's on deep discount, I'll give it a look with that naval warfare expansion-oh, wait, PS4 version only, never mind.
  
 This did remind me to check for all the PS+ games I didn't download yet, though. Doing it through the PS3 causes me to miss stuff and it's kinda slow, though. Gotta get in the habit of checking through the Web site, which also lets me grab the PS4 freebies in case I get a PS4 later.


----------



## Stillhart

Looks like you can find the HP200 on sale for $150 right now if you check the usual places.


----------



## jancijen

Hello guys, I need present for my parent for his BD so i decided to buy him headphones/headset because he likes playing games on PC. Firstly i saw headset HyperX Cloud and in reviews they were saying about amazing sound, but in some review they said that they are just for playing games (i mean that they are not so good in other ways). And now i found on internet a lot of articles where they were saying that it is better to buy audiophile headphones and mic.
  
 So i am asking u for ur help pls.. Which one?

 1. HyperX Cloud (some guys said they are not so bad for music, i wanna headphones mainly for gaming but for 70+ € i wanna more ) and i can get them for 71 € now... they have nice 15Hz - 25000Hz but i am not sure what does it really mean 
  
 2. Creative AURVANA Live!2 .... i can get them now for 86€
  
 3. AKG K 619 ... for 83€
  
 4. Pioneer HDJ-500-R.... 82€
  
 5. Audio-technica ATH-T500.... 78€ or others for about 70-80€ or less if they are better 
  
 I need fast help please. Thanks in advance


----------



## Evshrug

Can you find a pair of the original Creative Aurvana LIVE!
The original CAL! are more refined than their successor.

Samson (not the Korean Samsung) and Superlux also have impressive models in your price range, though the treble would be too sharp for me. 
Koss PortaPro might look a little funny, but they're lightweight and very good for the price, lifetime warranty as well.
Dunno if you have Skullcandy headphones in Europe, but the SLYR is very good and has a mic if you want it.

Those are all good options.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Looks like you can find the HP200 on sale for $150 right now if you check the usual places.


 
  
 Well damn. I guess that means I'm ordering a pair. First time I've seen them go on sale at this price.


----------



## theragekage

axelcloris said:


> Well damn. I guess that means I'm ordering a pair. First time I've seen them go on sale at this price.




Yesssss, I need someone else to give impressions of these.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Well damn. I guess that means I'm ordering a pair. First time I've seen them go on sale at this price.


 
  
  


theragekage said:


> Yesssss, I need someone else to give impressions of these.


 
  
 Agreed!  Looking forward to hearing about it in 3-4 weeks.


----------



## wilflare

thinking of jumping on the
 Philip Fidelio X1
 Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 - is this really necessary for gaming on PS4, Vita and PC? - I currently own the Sony PULSE Elite
 VModa BoomPro - for the mic... but is the cable resistance an issue?
 Monoprice Cable - replacement cables to overcome stock cable resistance issues


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> thinking of jumping on the
> Philip Fidelio X1
> Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 -* is this really necessary for gaming on PS4, Vita and PC? *- I currently own the Sony PULSE Elite
> VModa BoomPro - for the mic... but is the cable resistance an issue?
> Monoprice Cable - replacement cables to overcome stock cable resistance issues


 
  
 If you want virtual surround through your headphones, then yes, you'll need the Mixamp for the PS4.  Otherwise, just plug the headset right into your controller for stereo.
  
 Don't know about using a Mixamp with the Vita, I don't think it'll add anything as I don't believe the Vita has optical out.
  
 You CAN use the Mixamp with your PC, but you're better off just getting a cheap sound card that does the same thing.
  
 Regarding the Boompro, don't worry about the resistance.  It sounds as good, if not better, than the stock cable IMO.
  
 That's a really nice setup, BTW.  I say go for it!


----------



## AxelCloris

The PS4 is here.
  

  
 Apparently this is what constitutes a "4" rating out of 10 on Cowboom. For saving $200 I'll gladly take these scratches. Simply superficial, nothing more.
  
@Stillhart, did you pick up a controller yet? I should be setting mine up for some gameplay tomorrow. My controller is charging at the moment.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> The PS4 is here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, I got my controller on sale at Target and I've been playing since last Friday.  Mine's in the same "condition" as yours was:  perfectly fine.  
  
 BTW, I picked up the free demo of BF4 on the PS3 and played the campaign for a couple of hours.  It's pretty fun.  I might have to grab the PS4 version... should be worth $28.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Yep, I got my controller on sale at Target and I've been playing since last Friday.  Mine's in the same "condition" as yours was:  perfectly fine.
> 
> BTW, I picked up the free demo of BF4 on the PS3 and played the campaign for a couple of hours.  It's pretty fun.  I might have to grab the PS4 version... should be worth $28.


 
  
 Yeah, once I get my PS+ activated I'll be picking up the game. Tempted to get the bonus content as well but I'm not sure I will. I mean, Destiny is out next month, so...


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, once I get my PS+ activated I'll be picking up the game. Tempted to get the bonus content as well but I'm not sure I will. I mean, Destiny is out next month, so...


 
 That's my thought as well.  Between TLOU, the free XBL games, the free PS+ games and BF4, I don't think I'm going to need the DLC pack before Destiny starts the flood of amazing new games this fall.  Heck, I might not even need/want BF4.  I'll play some more of the PS3 version before I decide...


----------



## kman1211

stillhart said:


> Yeah the HP150 is supposed to be basically the same as the HP100 but maybe a little more refined.  If nothing else, it's worth it just for the straight cable.  I'm not really familiar with the DT150, so it'll be nice to hear about it.


 
 I just got the Beyer DT 150, I'm really impressed. Initial impressions is that it's warm, musical, lush, quite neutral, clear, detailed, transparent, natural sounding, good imaging, and a large soundstage for closed-back. Oh and the bass is powerful, deep, textured, impactful, and has a lot of body. Doesn't really sound like a Beyer, more akin to a Senn in sound but not quite. It doesn't really give the impression of being closed, doesn't quite have the air of an open back but also doesn't sound closed-in. It seems to be in the K612's and K712's league in terms of sound quality. I'll see how it turns out with some burn-in and after the pads break in. Comfort is quite good for a closed-back and it doesn't clamp too much. One odd thing is the cable comes out of the right side instead of left. I'm getting the feeling this may end up my favorite headphone.


----------



## IBIubbleTea

What do you guys think about the Q701 compared to the HP200 for competitive gaming? The HP200 has more bass, that's all I know.. :/


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, once I get my PS+ activated I'll be picking up the game. *Tempted to get the bonus content as well but I'm not sure I will*. I mean, Destiny is out next month, so...


 
  
 Yeah, Destiny will be out in a month... and it will take up most of our gaming time when it releases. The BF4 Premium sale price is entirely worth it, though. Five map packs, with one yet to be released, and tons of extra content and weapons to unlock. Trust me, you will not want to feel left out of the squad when we hit up the new map servers and such... especially when we hit up Operation Metro.
  
  


stillhart said:


> That's my thought as well.  Between TLOU, the free XBL games, the free PS+ games and BF4, I don't think I'm going to need the DLC pack before Destiny starts the flood of amazing new games this fall.  Heck, I might not even need/want BF4. * I'll play some more of the PS3 version before I decide...*


 
  
 I had the PS3 version before the PS4 released. It's nice, but a completely watered down version of BF4 on next gen. The good thing is all your stats will transfer should you decide to upgrade...


----------



## Change is Good

ibiubbletea said:


> What do you guys think about the Q701 compared to the HP200 for competitive gaming? The HP200 has more bass, that's all I know.. :/




Yes, HP200 has a little more bass, and slightly more present mids like the K612. Q701 has a wider soundstage, slightly more detail, but needs more synergy. Can't go wrong with either...


----------



## IBIubbleTea

change is good said:


> Yes, HP200 has a little more bass, and slightly more present mids like the K612. Q701 has a wider soundstage, slightly more detail, but needs more synergy. Can't go wrong with either...


 
 What is does having a wider soundstage mean ? 
  
 NINJa edit~ 

 They (Hp200) seem to use a different material for the ear pads. Are they any good? my ears tend to get really warm and I start to sweat quite a bit with my old headset or any heavy, closed headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

ibiubbletea said:


> What is does having a wider soundstage mean ?


 
  
 Here you go:  http://www.head-fi.org/a/describing-sound-a-glossary


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> If you want virtual surround through your headphones, then yes, you'll need the Mixamp for the PS4.  Otherwise, just plug the headset right into your controller for stereo.
> 
> Don't know about using a Mixamp with the Vita, I don't think it'll add anything as I don't believe the Vita has optical out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 thanks for the reply!
  
 hmm I use a USB DAC (Audinst HUD-MX1) on my PC... don't really have a dedicated soundcard :/
  
 my motherboard has the following (which I disable)
- 7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec)
- Premium Blu-ray audio support
  
so do I output via digital?


----------



## junamoo

Hey guys, got a question for you, that i'd say has probably been asked.. But this thread is 1,678 pages long =S lol..
  
 Getting a new headset and maybe a modmic to use for pc and ps3 gaming, and eventually ps4. Probably getting the ATH-A700x as i need low sound leakage, being in the lounge room, don't want to annoy my partner =) hah. Anyway, looking at pairing this with an astro mixamp pro 2013 for $139 (I'm in Australia btw).
  
 Just wanted opinions on whether there would be an alternative that would work better with the pc as well as ps3 or if I should just get a cheap sound card as well and run the headset through that when on pc? 
 Thanks in advance for any advice =).


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> thanks for the reply!
> 
> hmm I use a USB DAC (Audinst HUD-MX1) on my PC... don't really have a dedicated soundcard :/
> 
> ...


 
  
 Your DAC only does USB input, which is tough.  Normally I'd suggest just grabbing a Sound Blaster Z or Omni and then outputting that to your DAC and/or Amp.  That will give you surround for gaming, plus great sound for music.  But you won't be able to use a separate sound card AND your DAC at the same time, which means switching headphone ports if you want to use both.  Given that, I'd say you should probably determine how badly you want surround gaming on your PC.
  
 The Realtek sound on your MoBo is garbage. Don't bother.
  


junamoo said:


> Hey guys, got a question for you, that i'd say has probably been asked.. But this thread is 1,678 pages long =S lol..
> 
> Getting a new headset and maybe a modmic to use for pc and ps3 gaming, and eventually ps4. Probably getting the ATH-A700x as i need low sound leakage, being in the lounge room, don't want to annoy my partner =) hah. Anyway, looking at pairing this with an astro mixamp pro 2013 for $139 (I'm in Australia btw).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yep, this was addressed just a page ago.  The Mixamp isn't really great for PC gaming.  If you can afford it, get a Mixamp for console and a separate sound card for PC gaming.  I am a big fan of the Sound Blaster Omni or Z (same thing, just USB vs PCIe).  Others prefer the Asus.


----------



## junamoo

stillhart said:


> Yep, this was addressed just a page ago.  The Mixamp isn't really great for PC gaming.  If you can afford it, get a Mixamp for console and a separate sound card for PC gaming.  I am a big fan of the Sound Blaster Omni or Z (same thing, just USB vs PCIe).  Others prefer the Asus.


 
  
 Sorry, should've read back a bit haha. That card is probably a little over my budget, how's the asus xonar dg?


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> Your DAC only does USB input, which is tough.  Normally I'd suggest just grabbing a Sound Blaster Z or Omni and then outputting that to your DAC and/or Amp.  That will give you surround for gaming, plus great sound for music.  But you won't be able to use a separate sound card AND your DAC at the same time, which means switching headphone ports if you want to use both.  Given that, I'd say you should probably determine how badly you want surround gaming on your PC.
> 
> The Realtek sound on your MoBo is garbage. Don't bother.


 
  
 guess I'll leave it disabled then (realtek)
  
 hmm. can I still get "faux surround" on my X1 (when I buy it) if I were to output via my USB DAC?
 I use the old AE AegoM 2.1 for my usual gaming... but I guess earphones help...
  
 but if I'm okay with switching ports - there shouldn't be any issues right?
 USB DAC for Music
 Separate Sound Card for Movies/Games
 (now there's the issue of how to plug my speakers)
  
 how bad is the Mixamp Pro for PC Gaming? - it's bad in terms of sound quality or compatibility ?


----------



## calpis

wilflare said:


> guess I'll leave it disabled then (realtek)
> 
> hmm. can I still get "faux surround" on my X1 (when I buy it) if I were to output via my USB DAC?
> I use the old AE AegoM 2.1 for my usual gaming... but I guess earphones help...
> ...


 
 An audiophile USB DAC won't support virtual surround sound (generally). If your onboard card supports Dolby Digital Live then it can send that signal to the mixamp so you can get the correct Dolby Headphone experience. Plugging in the Mixamp via USB to the PC will only get you Stereo, and enabling DH with a stereo signal is not a thing to do since it's just stereo with reverb.
  
 The thing to do is to get a sound card that outputs CMSS-3d, Dolby Headphone, or any of the other virtual solutions and to optionally connect that to an amp and then to your headphones.


----------



## wilflare

calpis said:


> An audiophile USB DAC won't support virtual surround sound (generally). If your onboard card supports Dolby Digital Live then it can send that signal to the mixamp so you can get the correct Dolby Headphone experience. Plugging in the Mixamp via USB to the PC will only get you Stereo, and enabling DH with a stereo signal is not a thing to do since it's just stereo with reverb.
> 
> The thing to do is to get a sound card that outputs CMSS-3d, Dolby Headphone, or any of the other virtual solutions and to optionally connect that to an amp and then to your headphones.


 
  
 thanks! guess I would need to look at buying a decent amp :/
 would it work if I get a soundcard that outputs CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone, etc and output that to the Mixamp Pro? - would that work or would that actually degrade sound quality?
  
 and I guess I can only buy the Mixamp Pro 2013 right - I heard the older models were better but not available anymore?


----------



## calpis

wilflare said:


> thanks! guess I would need to look at buying a decent amp :/
> would it work if I get a soundcard that outputs CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone, etc and output that to the Mixamp Pro? - would that work or would that actually degrade sound quality?
> 
> and I guess I can only buy the Mixamp Pro 2013 right - I heard the older models were better but not available anymore?


 
 It would work but the Mixamp itself isn't a great "amp" and won't really add anything to the sound and possibly make it sound worse, which is why a lot of us have them connected to dedicated amps when we're playing console games.Basically if you're only doing pc games then avoid the mixamp altogether and just grab a capable and inexpensive sound card and (if you feel the need for) a dedicated amp.


----------



## Nirraven

Hi,

I am new to this forum and i am happy to found this great thread.
I also get a new headphone something like K702.

I am building a new PC and i search for a good soundcard for gaming (70%) music (30%).
I am not sure what i should pick,i heared from more sources that the ZxR havn't the best
sound and i am not sure about the Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus. Is the stx(2) also good enought
in games or (only) good in sound and is the stx2 worht for 40e more?


----------



## wilflare

calpis said:


> It would work but the Mixamp itself isn't a great "amp" and won't really add anything to the sound and possibly make it sound worse, which is why a lot of us have them connected to dedicated amps when we're playing console games.Basically if you're only doing pc games then avoid the mixamp altogether and just grab a capable and inexpensive sound card and (if you feel the need for) a dedicated amp.


 
  
 I see... may I know which dedicated amps are you guys using with your consoles now? ^^


----------



## PurpleAngel

nirraven said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am new to this forum and i am happy to found this great thread.
> I also get a new headphone something like K702.
> ...


 
  
 Asus Xonar STX/ST and STX II and Phoebus and SB-ZxR, use the same class of DAC chip (PCM179X) and the same TI 6120A2 headphone amplifier chip.
 So audio quality may only be very minor in differences (if really noticeable).
 It might come down to the Creative SBX Headphone feature verses the Asus Dolby Headphone feature.


----------



## PurpleAngel

wilflare said:


> I see... may I know which dedicated amps are you guys using with your consoles now? ^^


 
  
 An Astro Mix-amp ($130?) daisy chain with a Schiit Magni headphone amplifier ($99), should allow you to use just about any headphone you might like.


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> I see... may I know which dedicated amps are you guys using with your consoles now? ^^


 
 Pretty much any of the ones in the guide.  Scroll down past the headphones for a list of viable amps, along with reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To add to what chicolom wrote earlier about Dolby Headphone vs SBX, I'll chime in and say I agree with what he says. SBX is going to be for those who go in with the headphone audio mentality. Very clear, crisp, detailed sound with very good surround positional cues. I love THX Tru Studio in the same manner that I really like what I hear about SBX, and SBX is even more accurate than THX TS (which has some odd surround placement for angled audio cues, but nothing you can't get used to).

What I prefer on Dolby Headphone is that it doesn't sound like a headphone with surround. It sounds like you're in a room with speakers, reverberations included. If you've ever been in a small room with surround speakers, you know what I'm talking about. Sound cues blend in more with Dolby Headphone, similar to the way sound cues blend in with surround speakers (dealing with reflections of sound and interacting with one another). With THX and SBX, everything is produced cleanly, in that sounds don't interact with one another the way speakers and DH does. With those two, you get sharp, clean audio cues, that stick out in a way that lets you know you're listening to headphones.

DH is more 'ambient' and enveloping (immersive if you wanna say that). I use THX Tru Studio perhaps more than I use Dolby Headphone now, because I play a lot on my laptop away from home, and when I'm home I tend to play with my Pioneer soundbar with more frequency. So I have ample experience with both. I like DH's more theater/fuller, more enveloping sound, which tricks me more times than not in that I sometimes think my speakers are on, and not the headphones.

Long story short, like Chico, I love both. If I'm dealing with analyzing where sounds are coming from and want less processed sound, I feel that SBX is the better choice, as sound placement is defined more cleanly, and you get less reverb and blending in to the overall ambience. That being said, I have played with DH for so long, I personally don't gain an extra advantage using one or the other, and since DH is more atmospheric and immersive, it is STILL my preferred choice of virtual surround.

If you are STRICT about reverb and want to stay closer to the cleanliness of what stereo has to offer, with the benefits of surround positioning, SBX really is hard to pass up. If you are less concerned about that, and want a more theater-like, immersive sound, DH is still a great choice.

I think it falls under neutral vs fun. SBX and THX TS are dryer sounding, and more detailed. DH is warmer/smoother and more musical. That is not to say that THX and SBX aren't fun. They most definitely are. That's not to say you can't analyze the hell out of everything with DH. You most definitely can.

Just giving you more or less what to expect as to where they tend to fall more than not.

One thing that I will say is that SBX and THX TS are definitely more refined sounding than DH.

I feel audiophiles coming into virtual surround are most likely to fall in the SBX camp, due to less sacrifices as to what to expect from their headphone's sound. DH alters the soundscape quite drastically, which can (even for me) be jarring/off putting at first.

If Creative made an SBX device for consoles, I would most definitely be interested in it.

Also, this is more comparing THX Tru Studio vs SBX at default surround and max vs DH-2.

DH-1 is actually quite articulate, and closer to the refinement of the Creative offerings, but the soundstage is smaller. DH-2 is still the best trade off for Dolby Headphone, IMHO.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> To add to what @chicolom wrote earlier about Dolby Headphone vs SBX, I'll chime in and say I agree with what he says. SBX is going to be for those who go in with the headphone audio mentality. Very clear, crisp, detailed sound with very good surround positional cues. I love THX Tru Studio in the same manner that I really like what I hear about SBX, and SBX is even more accurate than THX TS (which has some odd surround placement for angled audio cues, but nothing you can't get used to).
> 
> What I prefer on Dolby Headphone is that it doesn't sound like a headphone with surround. It sounds like you're in a room with speakers, reverberations included. If you've ever been in a small room with surround speakers, you know what I'm talking about. Sound cues blend in more with Dolby Headphone, similar to the way sound cues blend in with surround speakers (dealing with reflections of sound and interacting with one another). With THX and SBX, everything is produced cleanly, in that sounds don't interact with one another the way speakers and DH does. With those two, you get sharp, clean audio cues, that stick out in a way that lets you know you're listening to headphones.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I agree with all of that ^
  
 I think you should copy/past put that somewhere in the front post , probably to the FAQ section - so next time someone asks you "MLE, how would you compare SBX/THX/etc. and Dolby Headphone?" you can just say, _"Read the FAQ"._


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

True. I'll see about putting it today... just remind me if I get too lazy.


----------



## chicolom

Also @Mad Lust Envy, did you ever have luck finding an optical switch that worked well?
  
 I want something so I can switch between my Xonar U3 and Sound Blaster Z (both go to the D03K but I have to switch cords - tough on the jack).
  
 I know the cheap passive ones on monoprice are pretty flaky, but the powered ones seem better.
  
 Something like this maybe.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Also @Mad Lust Envy
> , did you ever have luck finding an optical switch that worked well?
> 
> I want something so I can switch between my Xonar U3 and Sound Blaster Z (both go to the D03K but I have to switch cords - tough on the jack).
> ...




This is the one I have. Works like a mother-effing dream... but it's $30-ish...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQ2R38C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm positive it's the same as yours, just different branding. Most likely same OEM.

Get it. Makes things SO much easier. Comes with the remote, even if it ain't pictured.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> This is the one I have. Works like a mother-effing dream... but it IS costly.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQ2R38C/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cool.
  
 Yeah, that looks like identical to the one I linked.  just rebrands coming from the same OEM.
  
  
 Kind of funny that the switch is more expensive than my actual D03K DAC 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, but I guess that's the price for a working one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. It hurt forking over $30, but at that point, the convenience, and the years of manual labor made it a wise choice. Those products seem to have basically no defects, compared to the manual ones which I just couldn't get to work long enough to recommend.

I actually have it running to my Mixamp 5.8 which then feeds to the Pioneer soundbar (via the 5.8's toslink passthrough), so I get both the 5.8 being switched as well the Pioneer. Headaches over. I never, ever turn off my Tx unit, so no dropped audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so I was testing out the Dualshock 4 with the PC (as well as with Xpadder), and it makes a better controller than the 360 pad. The triggers aren't digital, so they register with more content, and you gain a few more buttons than the 360 pad. My first test was Mass Effect 3 demo, which as you may know, EA/Bioware was stupid enough to not include native pad support. After a few hours of tweaking (I'm crazy), I was able to get a scheme good enough to make ME3 playable, with a few annoying quirks, like having to swap your teammates powers VERY slowly. Adjusting the mouse speed in Xpadder made the game a lot more playable than even on the 360 pad, which you still would've needed a keyboard around for special attack shortcuts.

After all that testing, I still wouldn't get Mass Effect on PC because it's just awkward doing certain things with non-native pad support, like your in game dialogue decisions.

I will never, ever play a game with a Keyboard and Mouse. Just... don't argue with me on this. Controllers for life.


----------



## Nirraven

*bump* can someone help me to find a soundcard, i don't prefer CSM3 or DH. I just wanna have a good soundquality with a nice soundstage. headphone's k702 and dt770 are my favorits i am testing some headphones soon. (Dt770,880,990,sehnneheiser hd598,600,akg q701,k702)


----------



## Fegefeuer

The SBX slider towards 100% actually does stronger blending and gives a more enveloping soundfield. The default at 67% is the best start to get the feel of SBX. From there you can go up and adjust your preferences (aka losing accuracy for more engulfment). Don't see the benefit of going below that value. 
  
 Imo SBX also appeals to ex-CMSS-3D users better, not only due to better SQ but also because of the clarity and accuracy of cues they are used to, You win in all those categories but lose legacy. That's where the magic of SBX unfortunately falls short.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> The SBX slider towards 100% actually does stronger blending and gives a more enveloping soundfield. The default at 67% is the best start to get the feel of SBX. From there you can go up and adjust your preferences (aka losing accuracy for more engulfment). Don't see the benefit of going below that value.
> 
> Imo SBX also appeals to ex-CMSS-3D users better, not only due to better SQ but also because of the clarity and accuracy of cues they are used to, You win in all those categories but lose legacy. That's where the magic of SBX unfortunately falls short.




Yeah, but not on the level of Dolby Headphone which is still the more immersive DSP. I'm still very aware it's headphones, whereas DH throws away the headphone characteristics entirely.

Beyerdynamic's Headzone is also more like Dolby headphone than like the Creative offerings, with even more refinement and less processed sound. Too bad on it's absurd pricing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, if you dissect DHP in a simple way you have bass boost, hall/echo effect for a grander illusion of space (in correlation with the speaker room feeling), speaker room presence with a fixed profile that is less "anechoic" than SBX or CMSS-3D and KEF-like broad projection of sound. 
  
 Bass boost adds to the grand/large experience. Recently I watched The Raid 2 in 2 different cinemas and the former presentation had more bass while the rest was on the same level for both. The former cinema delivered the better experience and was more immersive, no matter what scene. Rama's boxing against the wall, literally every fight, drum part of the music was much better. The boost itself was not overblown, it was slightly but it changed the whole experience. This is also something that DHP makes use of and creates a grander experience. 
  
 If we agree on the cinematic effect then I support your notion of immersion but I don't want to be in the cinema when playing games. I want to have a sharper sense of the surroundings as games are dynamic and less movie-like. That's a preference thing. SBX is more "anechoic", that might lead to the "drier" experience if I get it right. In the end it's also just a speaker room. 
  
 Ultimately HRTF for games will rely on geo/xyz data (again). To create a better feel of the surroundings, above you, below. No more 5.1 speakers but as an approximative which it'll always be with ten times the amount of them, surrounding you. Like Dolby Atmos. So more power to VR (though I want to reap the benefits without VR).


----------



## chicolom

But listen to how good the SBX Pro DSP sounds!!
  
 It sounds so good, it almost sounds......._binaural_.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It really does sound binaural. Yet, it still sounds like I'm wearing headphones, lol. That's what appeals to me DH. It doesn't. Needless to say, I'm not debating. I think SBX is the best overall. It's the best well rounded DSP of the 3 that I like. I really, really did not like CMSS-3D.


----------



## Yethal

Just in case I'll ever go back to pc gaming, how viable is using Asus Xonar u3 only as virtual surround processor and connecting it to an external dac via optical?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As good as the devices you attach to it. You're only using the U3 for the DH processing. Your dac and amp do the rest of the job. You gain no extra benefit choosing another, more expensive DH device if all you're sending out is the digital signal.


----------



## imac2much

I've had both the U3 and the Omni.
 MLE is absolutely right in a sense; if you only plan to use the external sound card for its DSP and then use the optical out to connect to DAC->AMP->HP, then for the most part, the U3 is fine.
  
 However, I'd also have to mention the build quality and convenience... the U3 just looks like a big fat thumb drive, so it can actually block adjacent USB ports on your laptop if they are close together.  The DAC is the same chip, from what I understand, as the Omni, but the amp sucks.  Honestly, I couldn't hear any difference between the U3 amp and the onboard Realtek drivers.  
  
 The Omni is more expensive, but it is larger device that is connected to the USB port via cable, so it doesn't get in the way of adjacent USB ports.  Also, it has a pretty good amp (and the same decent DAC) that can tide you over until you upgrade your peripherals.  That's what I did, and it tided me over nicely until I got my Asgard 2.  I still think the Omni DAC is fine for my purposes though.


----------



## martin vegas

I think i will buy  one tomorrow when i take the rpac back ,which one will be the best one to get the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD USB External Sound Card with SBX or the Omni?


----------



## Yethal

U3 it is then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uh, the U3 also comes with a USB extension cable, so it SHOULDN'T be blocking any USB ports, unless you're not using that extension cable.


----------



## Yethal

imac2much said:


> I've had both the U3 and the Omni.
> MLE is absolutely right in a sense; if you only plan to use the external sound card for its DSP and then use the optical out to connect to DAC->AMP->HP, then for the most part, the U3 is fine.
> 
> However, I'd also have to mention the build quality and convenience... the U3 just looks like a big fat thumb drive, so it can actually block adjacent USB ports on your laptop if they are close together.  The DAC is the same chip, from what I understand, as the Omni, but the amp sucks.  Honestly, I couldn't hear any difference between the U3 amp and the onboard Realtek drivers.
> ...


 
 U3 has a little usb-usb cable to prevent it from sticking to far out of the pc case


----------



## imac2much

Ah sorry must have missed that, as I bought it used and didn't get a cable. 

Either way I still prefer the build quality of the omni because the u3 feels really cheap to me, but it's good for the price.


----------



## conquerator2

Something like an optical U3 for consoles would be a winner... Sigh.
Too bad Fiio gave up on that for now ;/
Still, I don't understand why there isn't such a product. I'd buy even if it was twice the price as long as it could only serve as a DSP letting us use our rigs.


----------



## martin vegas

Just ordered the Omni!


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Something like an optical U3 for consoles would be a winner... Sigh.
> Too bad Fiio gave up on that for now ;/
> Still, I don't understand why there isn't such a product. I'd buy even if it was twice the price as long as it could only serve as a DSP letting us use our rigs.


 
 Device with hdmi passthrough that turns 7.1 lpcm into dolby headphone and outputs it to tosling would be my dream. + usb for voice chat of course


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Yeah, Destiny will be out in a month... and it will take up most of our gaming time when it releases. The BF4 Premium sale price is entirely worth it, though. Five map packs, with one yet to be released, and tons of extra content and weapons to unlock. Trust me, you will not want to feel left out of the squad when we hit up the new map servers and such... especially when we hit up Operation Metro.



Operation Metro? Oh good, so I can pay $28 to sometimes play bf3 on my PS4? Jk! That was a pretty good map in "rush" mode.

I dunno if premium is worth it since the content "season" is almost done. Yes you immediately get access to almost all the maps, but shortly after the last content is released a large chunk of the player base will move on to the fall games. I personally won't get familiar enough with map routes and gun exploration before the only players left are the grizzled hardcore, the most "fun" time to join the game would've been two months in (since the game required Day 1 patches, and several more updates).

So far the games haven't recaptured the feeling I had playing Star Wars Battlefront I & II, I played hours of the demo of the first game and felt the campaign of the second was really fun the whole way through.





junamoo said:


> Sorry, should've read back a bit haha. That card is probably a little over my budget, how's the asus xonar dg?



I don't know much about the Asus audio products first-hand (their GTX 660 graphics card is really nice tho!), I would defer to PurpleAngel about which of those is the value sweetspot.
If you want one surround processor to work with both PC and any console, Creative's Recon3D USB is the most versatile. Should have enough amp power for your A700x (sounded like it was made for my AD700), very low noise floor and clean sound in case you add another amp later, can tweak sound settings for your personal taste while on PC (or Mac) and save those settings so you can use them while connected to console, supports mic input and gain boost for PS3 & 4, and glows TRON blue hahaha. This could take the place of the Mixamp, several of us regulars here use it or have used one.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> It really does sound binaural. Yet, it still sounds like I'm wearing headphones, lol.


 
  
 I was being sarcastic, since SBX simply used an _actual binaural recording_ in that video to demonstrate "their" tech.
  
 A bit misrepresentative -it's not _that_ good


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *Operation Metro? Oh good, so I can pay $28 to sometimes play bf3 on my PS4?* Jk! That was a pretty good map in "rush" mode.
> 
> I dunno if premium is worth it since the content "season" is almost done. *Yes you immediately get access to almost all the maps, but shortly after the last content is released a large chunk of the player base will move on to the fall games*. I personally won't get familiar enough with map routes and gun exploration before the only players left are the grizzled hardcore, the most "fun" time to join the game would've been two months in (since the game required Day 1 patches, and several more updates).
> 
> ...




You mean like BO2 reskinned Nuketown? How about how COD released the same game for 6 years. I bet you paid $60 for each of those, though!

Lol people come up with so many excuses NOT to get the game. The BF community always stays active for a few years. This is actually the time when other people join in, because it is when EA puts it on sale. It happened when BF3 got its Premium edition that included all content plus the game for $60. Just keep playing your games and free PSN content, buddy lol. 

Oh, and Ghosts... *barf*. Wait, that community will be moving on to Advanced Warfare when it comes out in the fall. So... you're right, don't get BF and just save your money for that...

Jk!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I was being sarcastic, since SBX simply used an _actual binaural recording_ in that video to demonstrate "their" tech.
> 
> A bit misrepresentative -it's not _that_ good




Hahaha. I had a feeling, but I didn't wanna say anything. XD

Same as some of the DH techs...which were just binaural. :rolleyes:


----------



## calpis

How's SBZ when it comes to 5.1 mkv  files... legally ripped of course.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Lol people come up with so many excuses NOT to get the game. The BF community always stays active for a few years. Just keep playing your games and free PSN content, buddy lol.
> 
> Oh, and Ghosts... *barf*
> Jk!



Yes of course Ghosts is past it's peak too, and I'll probably leave it behind (or even trade it in).

I'm quoting your original post because I feel that your edit really got inflamed and assumed a bunch of things about me personally (sheep loyalty, wasteful of money, not into trying new things). Little offended despite the "buddy" and "jk." I don't judge you for your choices of games, I just don't think I'll find BF4 much fun (unless it's like SW Battlefront).

This is the other reason I can't get into BF:
[Video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yjHjCfcTuI8[/video]


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> Also @Mad Lust Envy, did you ever have luck finding an optical switch that worked well?
> 
> I want something so I can switch between my Xonar U3 and Sound Blaster Z (both go to the D03K but I have to switch cords - tough on the jack).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am using the splitter version of that one to pipe output of my Xbox one to the AVR and the Mixamp.  It works great, no problems with it.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm just tired of always getting called out when I bring up "Battlefield." If you felt offended by me edits, well... just cry me a river.

I'll just refrain from commenting here, for a while. All I'm doing is trying to get other head-fiers to play with Zombie and I, but people always come up with an excuse NOT to. Oh well...

Take care, my friend, and I say that genuinely...

*No edits*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't care for Battlefield, and Change, you suck. YOU OUGHTA BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. 

On a serious note.... wait, are we arguing? I love you guys. Don't argue. I really don't understand why people fall under either CoD or BF camps. THEY'RE BOTH REPETITIVE SHOOTERS THAT DON'T STRAY FAR FROM THEIR THE YEAR BEFORE. It really depends on your taste for shooters. You all I know I prefer CoD, since it's arcadey, fast, and not really team oriented. I DO understand why people prefer the more team oriented and patient approach to BF.

Just because we like one, doesn't mean the other sucks. Just... people have their preferences.

Now KITH and makeup. 

My excuse is that CoD is the only game I play competitively, lol. Really, I don't like playing anything else competitively.

But you all know I play far more than CoD. In fact, I play other games 90% of the time. I'm a campaign type gamer, not much of an online one. Destiny will be my first game that I delve into online, and it's because it's co-op. I probably won't touch the competitive arenas in that game.


----------



## martin vegas

It's worth getting premium just to get the deagle!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno though, Hardline is JUST about to come out. I sure hell wouldn't buy Ghost when the new game is about to be out, assuming I didn't have it Ghost.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno though, Hardline is JUST about to come out. I sure hell wouldn't buy Ghost when the new game is about to be out, assuming I didn't have it Ghost.


 
  
 Hardline got pushed back to next year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wuuuuut.

Well, that changes things. If you're into BF, then I guess BF4 now wouldn't be a bad idea. Plenty of months to go before next year.

That is, assuming you're not gonna leave life once Destiny comes out.

If I hadn't had such a massive backlog for upcoming RPGs, Destony would probably be my new obsession. Even then I STILL think it's gonna be my obsession.

edit: I need sleep. Grammatical errors are piling up, and I'm too lazy to fix. :'(


----------



## chicolom

calpis said:


> How's SBZ when it comes to 5.1 mkv  files... legally ripped of course.


 
  
 I'd record a movie comparison between Dolby and SBX, but I have a feeling youtube wouldn't allow that.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Wuuuuut.
> 
> Well, that changes things. If you're into BF, then I guess BF4 now wouldn't be a bad idea. Plenty of months to go before next year.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I see myself playing Destiny pretty exclusively once it comes out.  Soon after, you'll have Shadows of Mordor, Dragon Age 3, Civilization Beyond Earth, Halo Collection, and Forza Horizons 2, all of which are day-1 purchases for me.  That's a lot of games and I don't know that it's going to leave any room for BF4.  At best, I'd play BF4 until 9/9 and then be done with it.  
  
 The question for me is whether it's worth $28 for one month of play.  The answer?  Probably.  Target has buy one, get one 50% off for PSN cards (in-store only) until Saturday.  I was thinking of grabbing a few of those for effectively 25% off BF4, bringing the price down to $21.  I think that's reasonable.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Wuuuuut.
> 
> Well, that changes things. If you're into BF, then I guess BF4 now wouldn't be a bad idea. Plenty of months to go before next year.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been playing a bit of BF4 today and I can say with almost certainty that when Destiny comes out I'll be leaving BF4 behind. So far it hasn't captivated me. I spend most of my time running from A to B only to get shot by someone with a nice long scope who I couldn't possibly see. Maybe it'll be more enjoyable if people I knew were playing with me. Oh well. Should take a break and write a few articles for the website before I start it up again.


----------



## Murder Mike

stillhart said:


> The question for me is whether it's worth $28 for one month of play.  The answer?  Probably.  Target has buy one, get one 50% off for PSN cards (in-store only) until Saturday.  I was thinking of grabbing a few of those for effectively 25% off BF4, bringing the price down to $21.  I think that's reasonable.


 
  
 I thought it was buy one, get one 25% off.


----------



## Stillhart

murder mike said:


> I thought it was buy one, get one 25% off.


 
  
 Hmm, maybe.  Either way if I use the cards to buy something I was going to buy anyways, it's just bonus discount.  That doesn't apply to BF4, since the price is a big factor, but I still might use it to preorder Destiny (cancel my Amazon pre-order) and save a few bucks there.
  
 EDIT - Thanks for the clarification tho.  Not trying to mislead anyone!


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> It's worth getting premium just to get the deagle!



This gameplay actually looks like a lot of fun, I actually had a lot of success with pistols in BF3 and I'm glad they have worthwhile sidearms.




change is good said:


> I'm just tired of always getting called out when I bring up "Battlefield." If you felt offended by me edits, well... just cry me a river.
> 
> I'll just refrain from commenting here, for a while. All I'm doing is trying to get other head-fiers to play with Zombie and I, but people always come up with an excuse NOT to. Oh well...
> 
> ...



Well, I just hope you understand that what is happening isn't that anyone is saying BF4 is bad, what is happening is you're asking us to buy it, and "I" keep saying I don't want to buy it and why I don't since you keep asking a couple times a month. Nothing to argue about.

I won't cry you a river, instead I'll say just go eat one of your sandwiches 





mad lust envy said:


> Just because we like one, doesn't mean the other sucks. Just... people have their preferences.
> 
> But you all know I play far more than CoD. In fact, I play other games 90% of the time. I'm a campaign type gamer, not much of an online one. Destiny will be my first game that I delve into online, and it's because it's co-op. I probably won't touch the competitive arenas in that game.



Yup, it's totally fine if someone wants to play, say, Dance Dance Revolution, go have fun! Just don't get upset if I play something else, lol!

I've only bought CoD 1, 4, and Ghosts, and like you I have a lot of other games. I'm looking forward to more co-op games, I play plenty of RPGs but sometimes I get lonely (or crave a little FPS action!). I think Destiny will be a landmark game for the gaming community and market (on the level of Skyrim/fallout, CoD4, WoW, and Halo 2), might consider that Destiny owes a lot to Borderlands but Destiny encourages more social play.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Well, I just hope you understand that what is happening isn't that anyone is saying BF4 is bad, what is happening is you're asking us to buy it, and "I" keep saying I don't want to buy it and why I don't since you keep asking a couple times a month. Nothing to argue about.
> 
> I won't cry you a river, instead I'll say just go eat one of your sandwiches


 
  
 No, what is happening here is every time I bring up BF4, someone who hasn't even tried it, yet, says "I don't think it's worth it." Yes, I always ask you to "buy it," because I want you to "play it" with me. That is what a friend asks the other when he has a game the he thinks the other would enjoy playing with him, right? However, I don't recall telling "you" to buy it in my post, or even in this thread (as of late). Yes, I bring it up when we chat on PSN, and I already mentioned why.
  
 Maybe I'm just not your friend like I thought I was, I guess.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


axelcloris said:


> I've been playing a bit of BF4 today and I can say with almost certainty that when Destiny comes out I'll be leaving BF4 behind. So far it hasn't captivated me. I spend most of my time running from A to B only to get shot by someone with a nice long scope who I couldn't possibly see. Maybe it'll be more enjoyable if people I knew were playing with me. Oh well. Should take a break and write a few articles for the website before I start it up again.


 
  
 It will be different playing with a full squad that you know and communicate with. I absolutely hate playing by myself...


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Axel just brought this to my attention, and I hope some of you decide to join us on the battlefield. BF4 is having an appreciation week, I believe, and all their digital content is on sale in the PS Store, even Premium (which never happens).
> 
> Edit: I think the sale is for PS Plus members only, which most of you probably already are.


 
  
 Hmmm... doesn't look like I'm "telling" people to "buy" it. If I can read, correctly, it says "hoping"...
  


change is good said:


> Yeah, Destiny will be out in a month... and it will take up most of our gaming time when it releases. The BF4 Premium sale price is entirely worth it, though. Five map packs, with one yet to be released, and tons of extra content and weapons to unlock. Trust me, you will not want to feel left out of the squad when we hit up the new map servers and such... especially when we hit up Operation Metro.


 
  
 And, here, I'm just stating my case of why _I_ think _it is_ worth it. Still, no sight of telling people to buy it.
  
 Either way, I'm done, here...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Too bad that brief experience with the beta will probably be all I play of Destiny. Promising game, just there's no PC version, no USB KB+M or PS Move support on PS3, let alone PS4, and I CANNOT stand aiming with gamepad twiddlysticks. There are many genres I like playing with gamepads, but FPS/TPSs are not at all on that list.

As for Battlefield, I just hope the GameSpy server shutdown hasn't killed the community for all the good old games. VPN is still an option, but I doubt the community at large knows Tunngle is a thing. But before the shutdown, plenty of people were still playing BF1942. I know they're still out there.


----------



## Zombie_X

Too much arguing!
  
 I'll side with Change on this. He's not forcing you to buy it, not twisting your arm. You don't want it then you don't want it. I feel like he pushing it because it's on sale for a good price, and well that's a great price. I could be biased here but it's totally worth it to anyone who might be interested. But you can get it cheaper on ebay now ($24) and on a disc. 
  
 What can make it a deal breaker is Premium. I bought Premium for my Xbox One and PS4, because I love the game. But $50 is expensive for Premium. No joke, you could buy two used games for that price. So it's up to you guys.


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> Too bad that brief experience with the beta will probably be all I play of Destiny. Promising game, just there's no PC version, no USB KB+M or PS Move support on PS3, let alone PS4, and I CANNOT stand aiming with gamepad twiddlysticks. There are many genres I like playing with gamepads, but FPS/TPSs are not at all on that list.
> 
> As for Battlefield, I just hope the GameSpy server shutdown hasn't killed the community for all the good old games. VPN is still an option, but I doubt the community at large knows Tunngle is a thing. But before the shutdown, plenty of people were still playing BF1942. I know they're still out there.


 
  
 For PC gamers (who don't LOATHE Origin like I do), BF4 is getting a one week free demo.  So now there's a demo on PC and PS3 but nothing on PS4.  Boo.
  
 I also hate playing shooters with a controller, but I've been training myself because I really want to play Destiny.  So far so good, I felt like I had a clue what I was doing in that game! 
  
 EDIT - Source


----------



## NamelessPFG

stillhart said:


> For PC gamers (who don't LOATHE Origin like I do), BF4 is getting a one week free demo.  So now there's a demo on PC and PS3 but nothing on PS4.  Boo.
> 
> I also hate playing shooters with a controller, but I've been training myself because I really want to play Destiny.  So far so good, I felt like I had a clue what I was doing in that game!
> 
> EDIT - Source



Gonna have to snag that one-week trial while it lasts! The good thing about Origin game time is that as long as you get it tied to your acvount and start downloading, you don't actually have to start the trial period until you're ready. Still got my 48 hours of Titanfall, at any rate.

FPS-wise, it's mainly TOXIKK and UT4 that I'm looking forward to at the moment. The golden age of FPSs might just be coming back...


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Ok, so I was testing out the Dualshock 4 with the PC (as well as with Xpadder), and it makes a better controller than the 360 pad. The triggers aren't digital, so they register with more content, and you gain a few more buttons than the 360 pad. My first test was Mass Effect 3 demo, which as you may know, EA/Bioware was stupid enough to not include native pad support. After a few hours of tweaking (I'm crazy), I was able to get a scheme good enough to make ME3 playable, with a few annoying quirks, like having to swap your teammates powers VERY slowly. Adjusting the mouse speed in Xpadder made the game a lot more playable than even on the 360 pad, which you still would've needed a keyboard around for special attack shortcuts.
> 
> After all that testing, I still wouldn't get Mass Effect on PC because it's just awkward doing certain things with non-native pad support, like your in game dialogue decisions.
> 
> I will never, ever play a game with a Keyboard and Mouse. Just... don't argue with me on this. Controllers for life.


 
  
 not sure if you've tried but I think DS4Windows would really help with the "non-native pad support pit"
 I think it works better than Xpadder and you can just create a specific "Mass Effect" profile than you can switch on-the-fly with a swipe on the DS4 touchpad
  
 Here's the post I made on NeoGAF about DS4Windows (specifically J2K branch)


> Use DS4Windows by J2K
> http://forums.pcsx2.net/attachment.php?aid=51535
> you can read more about the development here
> http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-DS4Windows-yet-another-DualShock-4-driver?page=111
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

zombie_x said:


> Too much arguing!
> 
> But you can get it cheaper on ebay now ($24) and on a disc.



+1 on your first point, took an unexpected turn.

To your second point, is EA still doing that "must have/get a license code to play multiplayer" thing?

And thirdly, since you're here... Your cable for me arrived (and the Mixamp clip). Yay! And thank you! I'm going to try it out tonight


----------



## MikonJuice

Sorry to bother, but I have to ask: anyone know a good headphone for about 100 dollars, and are not Audio Technica AD700 or the Aurvana Live(1)?
 Both these headphones changed price/are difficult to find!

 Also, one thing that I was thinking: are they the best for only "enviromental" effect?
 I'm not going to use the headphones for multiplayer, but only for single player campaigns...
 Any suggestions?(ps4 and pc use!)


----------



## imac2much

You'll find several sub-$100 recommendations on the first page, but my money is on the Soundmagic HP100.  I got mine for $125 including shipping and paypal fees, so you should be able to find them for around that much, especially now that the HP150 is out and some people want to upgrade.  
  
 I really enjoy the sound quality on these, and although the soundstage was noticeably smaller than my father-in-law's HD650's, they are better than any other closed headphones I've tried.  The bass is pretty good as well, though I was initially surprised at the supposed "lack of bass" compared to my Sony Pulse Elites, but that is because the bass on HP100 is articulate but not bloated.  I feel the mids are quite good as well, which is important to me since I listen to a lot of vocals.
  
 I'd say scour the trading forums for HP100 at your price range.  Otherwise, if you don't want to mess with used headphones, look at MLE's suggestions on the first page


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mikonjuice said:


> Sorry to bother, but I have to ask: anyone know a good headphone for about 100 dollars, and are not Audio Technica AD700 or the Aurvana Live(1)?
> 
> Both these headphones changed price/are difficult to find!
> 
> ...




Ultrasone HFI-15G. Very, very immersive, with fantastic surround cues. Very comfortable, basically indestructible. They sell for around $85. Check the review. I like it a lot. Definitely my fave open headphone for gaming under $100.



As for Xpadder, it also has saved profiles. I have one set up just for Mass Effect.


----------



## wilflare

is there no one Amp that can
 - allow me to plug PS4 and PC
 - decode DTS. DD5.1 (etc) so I can game with surround on both PS4 and PC (with my X1)
  
 :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You don't need to decode DTS for either. Games all have Dolby Digital somewhere in the code (PS4, and for DTS only movies, etc, you use the Bitstream Mix option which allows DTS to play as Dolby Headphone or THX Tru Studio. As far as PC, I haven't played a multi-channel enabled game that doesn't work with Dolby headphone.

For PC, you can just buy a really cheap U3 or something.

A used first gen Turtle Beach DSS should be plenty for the 15G. Also, the 15G is insensitive so it doesn't pick up much hiss. Even my hissy Mixamp 5.8 is pretty silent with it.


----------



## jaysins

So after hearing all this talk about THX I've ordered a creative zx sound card so I can test it against the Asus ST. Good times ahead!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait, why? The SBX-equipped Creative soundcards are better than the THX equipped ones. SBX is basically the evolution of THX Tru Studio. 

I only mention THX TS because it's basically the only real alternative to Dolby Headphone for CONSOLE use. PC gamers have it easy in terms of choices. So much variety.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Wait, why? The SBX-equipped Creative soundcards are better than the THX equipped ones. SBX is basically the evolution of THX Tru Studio.
> 
> I only mention THX TS because it's basically the only real alternative to Dolby Headphone for CONSOLE use. PC gamers have it easy in terms of choices. So much variety.


 
 The Zx is just a pricier version of the Z, so it uses SBX.


----------



## calpis

I'll be modding my 15G with a detachable cable soon. Why? Mainly because of boredom and to level up my soldering skills. I just need to order a few panel mount female jacks to see what fits best inside. I'm also gonna see if stuffing some polyfil into the cups of the HS15 helps it out any. I opened them up a few days ago and there is absolutely nothing inside so maybe it can tighten the bass a little.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah ok. Thought he meant he bought a card with THX Tru Studio, not SBX. I wouldn't know. My laptop comes with an internal Creative card with THX TS. i dunno what they're doing nowadays with their cards.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Ultrasone HFI-15G. Very, very immersive, with fantastic surround cues. Very comfortable, basically indestructible. They sell for around $85. Check the review. I like it a lot. Definitely my fave open headphone for gaming under $100.


 
  
  
 Those actually don't look that bad.  Kind of Like supersized PX100s.
  
 I didn't notice that you had reviewed them...I'll go read it...


----------



## MikonJuice

mad lust envy said:


> Ultrasone HFI-15G. Very, very immersive, with fantastic surround cues. Very comfortable, basically indestructible. They sell for around $85. Check the review. I like it a lot. Definitely my fave open headphone for gaming under $100.
> 
> 
> 
> As for Xpadder, it also has saved profiles. I have one set up just for Mass Effect.


 

 I read 200 pages and almost all the reviews. That being said... wow. Now, for the answer and more questions:
 A little background: I probably need a headphone that is all-round, can be good for ps4 use and pc use AND... it's easy to find in the USA (Chicago and Denver to be more precise!).
 I do have a Dunu dn1000 and that's probably the quality I'm searching for: bought a few Square Enix games on psn ( which are on sale!) and wow, the quality of some of the intro music, specially Chrono Cross is... superb.
 My first pick would be the Slyr, as it's the easiest to plug and unplug on my ps4/pc set and I presume can be easily found in any store.
 But this ultrasone 15G picked my attention. Will it be horrible without amp? I don't think my friend (who's going to buy the fones) will find portable amps in a departament store or commom music store (he's no audiophile and probably lacks vocabulary, haha!).
 In fact, I was surprised when he said that he could not find the Aurvanas!
 Would the m50's be a good choice too? I have to give him a list of 5 headphones. The easiest one to find will probably be the "chosen one"!


----------



## calpis

I use my 15G out of a Zune HD and it sounds perfectly fine to me. I've used mine for about 6 years now and it has never skipped a beat. Only thing is that the pads will probably deteriorate in the 4th year or so depending on usage but the pads are $5 on ebay so I bought like 5 sets.


----------



## MikonJuice

4th year?
 That's really nice to hear, specially because I'm a iem enthusiast and... these things only last for 2 years, at best!


----------



## Evshrug

mikonjuice said:


> I don't think my friend (who's going to buy the fones) will find portable amps in a departament store or commom music store (he's no audiophile and probably lacks vocabulary, haha!).




Can't he just... Order whatever headphone you want from Amazon? Best buy has only a few decent Sennheisers (HD558) and probably the SLYR, and maybe the new Denon's which are okay. Guitar center may have more potions, Apple Stores have Sennheiser Momentums and maybe the new Turtle Beach iSeries.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> Those actually don't look that bad.  Kind of Like supersized PX100s.
> 
> I didn't notice that you had reviewed them...I'll go read it...







YOU NEED THIS. 




For music, I prefer the PX100, but the 15G is MUCH more comfortable, and makes for a better gaming and movie headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for the 15G, it doesn't need an amp per se, but it is pretty insensitive by design. As long as you can get an appreciable volume out of your sources, it's fine. I mainly say to get an amp just to have some headroom with volume.


----------



## jaysins

I want to hear the differences between the xonar and creative for myself with regard to positional audio. The Asus is good but I'm anxious to hear if I prefer creative's implementation. I should have both cards by the time I get back from the Bahamas on the 12th. I'll do a day of testing and give some impressions.


----------



## martin vegas

Here's some of me playing bf4 stillhart..just showing you what the average game is like with people not going for the flags and snipers flying small remote controlled planes into everyone and people camping the lifts!


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> I want to hear the differences between the xonar and creative for myself with regard to positional audio. The Asus is good but I'm anxious to hear if I prefer creative's implementation. I should have both cards by the time I get back from the Bahamas on the 12th. I'll do a day of testing and give some impressions.


 
  
 You can hear the difference by watching the video that Chicolom posted a few pages back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Downloaded the BF4 trial on PS3. Still so... unresponsive. Way too spoiled by CoD.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Downloaded the BF4 trial on PS3. Still so... unresponsive. Way too spoiled by CoD.


 
 It used to be even worse. The release version was literally unplayable


----------



## martin vegas

Battlefields better if you are on with friends and all in chat..just makes the whole experience more like being in the game..quite funny when you are all in the huey and the pilot shouts everyone jump!


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> Battlefields better if you are on with friends and all in chat..just makes the whole experience more like being in the game..quite funny when you are all in the huey and the pilot shouts everyone jump!



I absolutely loved the attack helicopter, probably the most fun I had was in the heli co-op mission.

Respawning on a teammate is cool too, keeps you closer to the action and makes "lives" important (at least for the last squad member).


----------



## Zombie_X

Well it's not a no skill twitch shooter like COD is either. You don't need much skill when playing COD to get 20 kills or so, but in Battlefiled it does get tense and you have to work together. Battlefield is still pretty responsive, just that guns have weight to them unlike in COD where they feel like you're not holding anything. To me it's more satisfying when you successfully flank enemies then take them all out, unlike COD where you aim, spray, and run away. I like COD, but to me the better game is still Battlefield. To each his own though. I'll be getting Advanced Warfare when it arrives later this year. It looks super cool and a nice change from what we've seen in the series. 
  
 I'm not here to preach or convert anyone to Battlefiled, it's your choice. Play what you like, respect what other like. Game on.
  
 Yethal, the game was never "unplayable" at all. Sure there were a ton of bugs, but it was still plenty playable. It was never a broken as some people make it out to be.
  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Downloaded the BF4 trial on PS3. Still so... unresponsive. Way too spoiled by CoD.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The thing about COD is that unlike Battlefield, COD is easy to play, hard to master. It is accessible to everyone from the get go, but to be a dominant player, it's not as easy as people think it is. Try being a newbie against the good players and you'll quickly be put in your place.

Battlefield has a more difficult learning curve, and unless you like it's mechanics enough to do well, it is nowhere near as accessible. It is definitely the tougher game.

My thing with Battlefield (as well as other big games), is that there are way too many lulls in the action due to how humongous the maps are. I'm not very patient, and always wanna be in the action. That's why I've always leaned on CoD. The fact CoD is now trying to somewhat copy Battlefield in scope is making CoD worse. Ghosts has so many areas in maps that get zero action and traffic because really, it's unnecessary for maps to be so big (by CoD standards).


----------



## DADDYDC650

My V-Moda BoomPro is still holding on strong after months of usage. Only issue I have is that it tangles way too easily. The first one I had tangled so bad the sleeve ripped. I got a replacement and even though I take even better care of this one, it still tangles on the daily. Soooo annoying! I call it the V-Moda TanglePro.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, if there's one franchise I'm a fanboy of and buy (almost) every one near day 1, it's Halo. You have to sustain your aim for just a bit longer, and you have greater options for movement, so there ends up being more skill involved in double kills and anything better than 1:1, you have to really pay attention to tactics during a firefight. Plus I think the physics things that happen with explosions and while in vehicles is simply fun to experience (and I think audio is best, tho Halo4 warthogs are unusually loud), and there's greater map variety.

But really, they're all good games, just emphasize different tactics. Battlefield has strategic and preparation tactics, CoD has reflex tactics and adrenaline management, Halo has movement tactics and also rewards calm-under-fire. Each of these games reward players good at strategy, reflexes, movement, and concentration, but each distinctly rewards one "tactical skill" the most.

Despite the fact that Bungie stopped working on (is free from?) Halo and that Halo 4 was a bit of a change from the formula established in Halo 2, it's still gonna hurt a bit not to continue Master Chief's story on XBone. Luckily I think Destiny's MP was pretty sweet. I had to good at killing the interceptor vehicles, and there's not exactly a variety of power weapons to encourage movement to reach certain map points, but it still feels good moving during gunfights and earning Supers as rewards for doing well encourages aggression (as well as cool physics).


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> The fact CoD is now trying to somewhat copy Battlefield in scope is making CoD worse. Ghosts has so many areas in maps that get zero action and traffic because really, it's unnecessary for maps to be so big (by CoD standards).


 
  
 Funny you say that, because I thought Battlefield trying to somewhat copy CoD in scope as of the last several games was making Battlefield worse.
  
 They're two different styles of gameplay; each should stay where they belong instead of trying to make a bid for the other game's playerbase to the extent that they forget their original roots.
  
 Then again, maybe the competition is a good thing, considering the great Quake III Arena vs. Unreal Tournament rivalry of the last decade, the golden age of FPSs.
  
 In other news, the GameSpy server shutdown has really screwed things up. The Battlefield lobbies over on Tunngle are near-empty, and while BF2 has some kinda community replacement going on to keep people playing together, 1942, Vietnam and 2142 are not so fortunate. Good thing they still support "offline" LAN play, at least...tunnel that and it's no different from playing online.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I recall, Medal of Honor was basically Battlefield with CoD sized maps, and it felt just so wrong. Basically limiting what makes Battlefield good. I remember renting it, and it was so...just lacking.

I think CoD can thrive with bigger maps, but it needs more changes than just big maps. That and the fact all 3 studios are making 'near future to future' setting CoDs is just stupid. They shouldve had one company doing past era CoDs, one doing present, and one doing future. Pretty soon, they will saturate the market with the same Crysis, Killzone type settings.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> If I recall, Medal of Honor was basically Battlefield with CoD sized maps, and it felt just so wrong. Basically limiting what makes Battlefield good. I remember renting it, and it was so...just lacking.
> 
> I think CoD can thrive with bigger maps, but it needs more changes than just big maps. That and the fact all 3 studios are making 'near future to future' setting CoDs is just stupid. They shouldve had one company doing past era CoDs, one doing present, and one doing future. Pretty soon, they will saturate the market with the same Crysis, Killzone type settings.


 
 Medal of Honor was more like CoD with battlefield classses ballistics and customization. The one thing I'd like to see in cod is bigger player count. Even battlefield on tdm on the smallest of the smallest of maps has 12v12 (bf3) and 10v10 (bf4)
  
 Futuristic fps is slowly becoming what WW2 shooter was 10 years ago, oversaturated market.
  
 Also, whoever here owns a PS4, give Shadow Fall multi a try


----------



## MC LeBron 23

Ummm does everyone in this thread play easy/noob games??? Cod and battlefield... Really???

Anyway, I jumped on the pro900 after you guys told me to go the dt770 route. I couldn't resist. Got the 900s last night and so far I'm not impressed. They came with alpha pads and I honestly find the stock pads to sound better. The alpha pads make the highs sound more harsh and the bass is less...weird considering it suppose to be the opposite according to the majority of people on here. I think it could be because my ears are farther away from the driver with the alpha pads.

I think the bass is over hyped. Compared to my m50s,the bass is boomier but in terms of ear tingling bass, the m50s win at that. That kind of bass is sub bass, correct?

So far I'm pretty disappointed. Bought them off eBay for $375. Hoping I can make my money back or close to it if I decide to sell. Still want to try the 770s. Do the 770s have better ear tingling bass compared to the M50s?

Mike


----------



## DADDYDC650

mc lebron 23 said:


> Ummm does everyone in this thread play easy/noob games??? Cod and battlefield... Really???


 

 What elite games do you play?


----------



## conquerator2

I love everything but COD/BF


----------



## conquerator2

mc lebron 23 said:


> Ummm does everyone in this thread play easy/noob games??? Cod and battlefield... Really???
> 
> Anyway, I jumped on the pro900 after you guys told me to go the dt770 route. I couldn't resist. Got the 900s last night and so far I'm not impressed. They came with alpha pads and I honestly find the stock pads to sound better. The alpha pads make the highs sound more harsh and the bass is less...weird considering it suppose to be the opposite according to the majority of people on here. I think it could be because my ears are farther away from the driver with the alpha pads.
> 
> ...




Pro900 have great bass but they kinda suck in every other aspect... Recessed mids, harsh highs,...
Yeah, I learnt that the hard way myself...
If you're not opposed to open headphones, I'd recommend the Philips X1/X2. These have amazing sub bass and sound good in other categories as well.
My experience in closed headphones is limited though...


----------



## Evshrug

daddydc650 said:


> What elite games do you play?









Also the original Counter Strike (not the CS:GO for the noobs).


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> Pro900 have great bass but they kinda suck in every other aspect... Recessed mids, harsh highs,...
> Yeah, I learnt that the hard way myself...
> If you're not opposed to open headphones, I'd recommend the Philips X1/X2. These have amazing sub bass and sound good in other categories as well.
> My experience in closed headphones is limited though...


 
  
 Sounds like a bit of an avoid at all cost headphone. The X1 does seem like a good option from what I read about it. In terms of closed headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 ohm has a whole lot of sub-bass but suffers a bit in the midrange and treble. The Beyerdynamic DT 150 is one of the best mid-tier($200-500) headphones I've ever heard regardless of closed or open, it should have enough bass.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> Sounds like a bit of an avoid at all cost headphone. The X1 does seem like a good option from what I read about it. In terms of closed headphones, the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 ohm has a whole lot of sub-bass but suffers a bit in the midrange and treble. The Beyerdynamic DT 150 is one of the best mid-tier($200-500) headphones I've ever heard regardless of closed or open, it should have enough bass.




The Mr Speakers Mad Dogs should be great too but it'd require some external amping.
The Pro900 was my first audiophile headphone and a formidable disappointment but I learnt my lesson and sorted my taste.
I far prefer open to closed since I've heard my first open can... That explains my limited knowledge in closed backs


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> The Mr Speakers Mad Dogs should be great too but it'd require some external amping.
> The Pro900 was my first audiophile headphone and a formidable disappointment but I learnt my lesson and sorted my taste.
> I far prefer open to closed since I've heard my first open can... That explains my limited knowledge in closed backs


 

 I haven't heard those yet, I need to get myself an ortho sometime. That does happen, I've made more than a few mistake purchases myself. I generally far prefer open to closed well, mainly because so few closed-backs are done right that and comfort can be iffy, but a well implented closed headphone is something special. I prefer the DT 150 to the K612 and maybe the K712, that tells you something about it. Maybe better amplification will change that but maybe not. It took me about 5-10 or so headphones to finally sort out my tastes. I either like neutral, midrange oriented, dark, and/or warmish headphones. Musicality and some lushness is a must for long term listening. A gentle v-shape curve is fine as well.


----------



## Evshrug

Too bad the DT150's are so ugly :/
I've only read good things about their sound.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> I haven't heard those yet, I need to get myself an ortho sometime. That does happen, I've made more than a few mistake purchases myself. I generally far prefer open to closed well, mainly because so few closed-backs are done right that and comfort can be iffy, but a well implented closed headphone is something special. I prefer the DT 150 to the K612 and maybe the K712, that tells you something about it. Maybe better amplification will change that but maybe not. It took me about 5-ir0 or so headphones to finally sort out my tastes. I either like neutral, midrange oriented, dark, and/or warmish headphones. Musicality and some lushness is a must for long term listening. A gentle v-shape curve is fine as well.




I love neutral open headphones. A more airy and refined K612 would be it. Or a HE-560 with a slight bass boost and larger soundstage... 
But generally speaking, all considered, the 560 is as close as it gets so far. Shame the soundstage isn't just a hair less intimate ;/
I am definitely sticking with Hifiman though


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Too bad the DT150's are so ugly :/
> I've only read good things about their sound.


 
 They are on the ugly side, it's an at-home headphone, so I don't mind how it looks as long as it sounds good and is comfy enough, at least no one would steal them, lol. I do find them lightweight and comfortable(after the pads break in a bit) though. And the build quality is awesome, toughest and most robust plastic I've ever seen on a headphone, with a metal headband, and easily replaceable parts. The praise about their sound is justified after owning and listening to them for a few days.


conquerator2 said:


> I love neutral open headphones. A more airy and refined K612 would be it. Or a HE-560 with a slight bass boost and larger soundstage...
> But generally speaking, all considered, the 560 is as close as it gets so far. Shame the soundstage isn't just a hair less intimate ;/
> I am definitely sticking with Hifiman though


 
 A more refined K612 would be awesome, that's the main reason I don't like it as much as the K712 despite it's sound signature being more to my tastes, the K712 is noticeably more refined to me. Well that tends to happen, it's so hard to find that perfect headphone. I'm not sure if I'm going the Hifiman route or not, I'm more of an Audeze guy going by my auditioning. I do want to hear the HE-560 and the HE-400i quite badly though. First before anymore headphone purchases I need to get myself the Project Ember amp I've been eying.


----------



## AxelCloris

I spent a few hours yesterday playing BF4 with the Monoprice 8323 headphone. It has a detachable cable and works perfectly with the BoomPro cable. The pads were replaced with Beyerdynamic DT250 velour pads. It wasn't the best gaming audio experience I've had but I have to say that I'm pretty impressed considering the price. And I didn't have any DSP active, I was simply running the cable directly from the PS4 controller. I'm going to work on integrating my Recon3D USB tonight and hopefully try out some THX TS when I play tonight. Then we'll really see what these $24 headphones can do.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

daddydc650 said:


> What elite games do you play?




I wouldn't call it "elite" compared to PC titles I've never played before, but I play halo 3 MLG. Theres hasn't been a more competitive game on console since its release in 07. I would still play cod 2 and 4 but cod2 is dead and cod4 is filled with modders and cheaters for the past 3 or 4 years. Halo 3 still has online tourneys and its still somewhat alive. Its will be back when MCC drops along with halo 1 and 2.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

conquerator2 said:


> Pro900 have great bass but they kinda suck in every other aspect... Recessed mids, harsh highs,...
> Yeah, I learnt that the hard way myself...
> If you're not opposed to open headphones, I'd recommend the Philips X1/X2. These have amazing sub bass and sound good in other categories as well.
> My experience in closed headphones is limited though...




The philips x1 was on my short list. If I was getting an open can, that would of been the one. I really wanted closed though. Kinda regretting the 900s. Don't think they're worth $400 never mind $550.

One thing that annoyed me about the philips is the non removable pads.


----------



## chicolom

conquerator2 said:


> I love neutral open headphones. A more airy and refined K612 would be it.


 
  
 Try the K712.


----------



## Zombie_X

chicolom said:


> Try the K712.


 
  
 Or the K702. The Q701 is cheaper and more or less the same.


----------



## wilflare

Is the X1 the best successor to the legendary AD700?
  
 the more I look into this, the more I'm confused.
 I had just wanted to get X1 + Mixamp Pro for console gaming (and maybe PC) but guess I need to have a better solution that allows me "best of both worlds"
  
 so what DAC/amp should I pair up with my X1 (I'm gonna use it with the BoomPro too) to get the best on both PS4 and PC?


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> Is the X1 the best successor to the legendary AD700?
> 
> the more I look into this, the more I'm confused.
> I had just wanted to get X1 + Mixamp Pro for console gaming (and maybe PC) but guess I need to have a better solution that allows me "best of both worlds"
> ...


 
  
 The successor to the AD700 is the AD700X. The X1 is a different sound entirely. The X1 is a headphone that will be more for the best of both worlds. The AD700X would be best for competitive gaming and sound whoring.


----------



## Evshrug

wilflare said:


> Is the X1 the best successor to the legendary AD700?




Uh, no? They're pretty much opposite headphones. The AD700 was high-quality sound for an entry-level cost, lightweight with polarizing looks, amazing soundstage but "heard not felt" bass, and one of the nicest cables I've seen. The X1 is Mid-Fi priced, mid-weight but pretty much everyone agrees that it's quite handsome, has strong rumbly bass which covers some detail and soundstage "air" (all things considered it has better soundstage than it has a right to, but still pales against the godlike massive and effortless AD700 soundstage), and has a detachable cable that almost every head-fi'er replaced with something that had less resistance.

Both are good but I imagine their target audiences are of different tastes. The AD700x is the AD700 successor, though if you like that character of sound, the K702/Q701 is basically that with a better balance of bass. The X1 is kind of like a replacement for the Beyerdynamic DT990.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Easy/noob games... someone thinks they're the cat's meow...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Easy/noob games... someone thinks they're the cat's meow...


 
  
 Wow, that's a pretty strong delusion to have. I hope I never think of myself as such.


----------



## MC LeBron 23

mad lust envy said:


> Easy/noob games... someone thinks they're the cat's meow...




Why do I need to be the "cats meow" (real corny BTW) to say they're easy/nooby games? One game (battlefield) is a casual team based game with gigantic maps which makes it terrible for competitive play. The other game was good in 07 and earlier. After that it's been the same garbage for the past 7 years. Made for 8 year olds and been dumbed down year after year because people (mostly little kids) cried that it was too hard. Its a twitch shooter based on who sees who first. Pretty tough game...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So your taste is better, congrats. Go back to crouching all game, random nades, and jumping during every firefight. Please. Halo has been the same since Halo 1. Pick the BR, or shotgun/melee combo.

Video games are video games. Enjoy them, not belittle them because they're not your cup of tea.

Now I'm corny. I'm so hurt.

Go back to the MLG forums and pwn sum nubz with ur l337 skillz


----------



## calpis

Doom 2 deathmatch... just sayin'....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never really played Doom, Quake, or Duke Nukem. I think I played the Wolfenstein before the one that just came out. I rented it and about 75% done with it, my save file corrupted. :'(

I want the PS4 one, but only when it goes down in price. That or just get it on steam. It will be $10 or less eventually.

OH, I have Doom: BFG on steam, but I couldn't get into it.


----------



## Evshrug

Err, none of these FPS are suitable for 8 year olds. At that age, there is MUCH Mario Cart fun to be had! And my roommate has been playing this game I think is called Puppeteer, main character's name is Kutaro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Puppeteer on ps3? It's free on PS Plus.


----------



## calpis

I never really played Doom2 that much since I didn't have a computer back then. I played some deathmatch at a friend's house that had a 4 computer LAN setup for Doom 2 back in the days. It was just hilarious that I would shoot 20 rockets at my friend and he would just side step and dodge every one of them then shoot me in the face with a double barrel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I THINK Doom 2 is inside Doom:BFG. I should try it.


----------



## wilflare

makes me regret selling my AD700 4 years back without much thought


----------



## chicolom

I'm all about the Goldeneye 007 for N64.


----------



## face2k

Hey guys, after reading a lot on this thread I've decided to try it out myself
 I can't find a DSS or Mixamp so I guess I'll have to use the Recon3D
 Now for the headphones I narrowed it down to ad700x and CAL2 because of my price range
 I went down to the shop and tried out the ad700x but the bass was mediocre,I watch a lot of movies and listen to HipHop so I don't think that was a good choice
Then I decided I would just but the CAL2 for 95$
 But then I saw a brand new HD598 for 150$
  
 Which should I buy?
 CAL2 for 95$
 or
 HD598 for 150$
 is it worth the extra price?


----------



## chicolom

face2k said:


> Hey guys, after reading a lot on this thread I've decided to try it out myself
> *I can't find a DSS or Mixamp* so I guess I'll have to use the Recon3D
> Now for the headphones I narrowed it down to ad700x and CAL2 because of my price range
> I went down to the *shop and tried out the ad700x* but the bass was mediocre,I watch a lot of movies and listen to HipHop so I don't think that was a good choice
> ...


 
  
 What country are you in?
  
 The CAL2 is supposedly not as good as the previous CAL.  The HD598 sounds completely different from the CAL anyways (both are on the front page).  You need to know what kind of headphone you want, and what you like to listen to.


----------



## face2k

Im from Taiwan
 I've read a lot of reviews and I thought that the CAL2 were better than the CAL


----------



## Yethal

If You're looking for impactful bass You may want to pass on the 598s, they are amazing and I love them but the bass is just sufficient, definitely not immersive. But damn, they are comfy headphones.


----------



## inanimate

I mainly use my PS4 for gaming and want a pair of surround sound headphones. But my dilemma is wither i should go with a pair of standalone headphones and then a clip on mic, or a pair of all in one gaming headphones? What do you guys think will be a better option


----------



## conquerator2

inanimate said:


> I mainly use my PS4 for gaming and want a pair of surround sound headphones. But my dilemma is wither i should go with a *pair of standalone headphones* and then a clip on mic, or a pair of all in one gaming headphones? What do you guys think will be a better option


 
 99% of all times this is the better price/performance value.
 You could get a decent headset as well but at that point you'd be paying significantly more for less.


----------



## Stillhart

face2k said:


> Im from Taiwan
> I've read a lot of reviews and I thought that the CAL2 were better than the CAL


 
 If you're bumping your budget to $150, there are a lot of options, especially if you have access to any used headphones.  
  
 The SoundMAGIC HP150 just came out to replace the HP100, but they're basically the same thing.  Maybe try to find a cheap HP100?


----------



## Evshrug

MC LeBron, let's not turn this into "that type" of forum with a lot of bickering...

It's totally cool to say why we like a game like what you like about halo (or, more on topic, headphone or sound or surround for headphones), but let's just ignore perceived insults to something we like (since antagonism won't change our minds anyway). If you feel you're right, no need even to reply, some people just like their stuff, and yes sometimes they miss out on good things because they have a certain preconception. I regret starting this whole thing by saying what what parts I don't like about battlefield...

So can we just drop this before something happens to this thread?


----------



## zx6guy

Just as a heads up, I just posted my Astro Mixamp Pro and AD700s in the for sale forums (ebay # 151379469213).


----------



## iamjonathan31

hi all,
  
 I'm going to buy a set of headphones exclusively for gaming on the xbox one, and I'm only interested in the ones that are best at locating people in CoD.  I have a pair of good headphones for music, etc so this set will only be for CoD really...also going to get a mixamp if that matters.
  
 Leaning toward either the AD700x or something by Sennheiser (gamezeros or pc363?)
  
  Main issue is of course locating footsteps, secondary issue is comfort after 2+ hours (my momentums squeeze my ears a bit), third issue is durability.
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Yethal

zx6guy said:


> Just as a heads up, I just posted my Astro Mixamp Pro and AD700s in the for sale forums (ebay # 151379469213).


 
 Dear lord, don't sell them! Or split them into two auctions and allow shipping to Europe if You have to sell them.
  
 Also, You know guys what would be cool? If Turtle Beach TAC had mini toslink integrated into the headphone output so we could bypass the internal dac/amp circuitry and use our own gear. Like pc players do with asus soundcards


----------



## MC LeBron 23

OK, after not being too happy with the pro 900s I'm probably going to sell them. Vocals don't sound right and are a little too sharp for my liking.

What would you guys say has a similar sound sound stage to the m50s but a little better bass and sound stage? My guess is the dt770 which I should've bought. The thing I like a lot about the m50s is vocals are in your face for hip hop but it's not too bright.


----------



## inanimate

Okay i decided which standalone headphones I am going to get for using with my PS4. Its between the Sennheiser HD598s or the AKG Q701s I would like some different opinions on these two and which one you guys recommend for mainly using it as audio for my PS4. I will end up getting something like the MixAmp which i have read works phenomenally with both of these but that is not a first priority.


----------



## PCunicorn

Hey guys, I was wondering what you would do if presented with the choice between ONLY the Hifiman HE 400s and Beyer DT990s Premium 32 Ohm? This is the situation I'm in. Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

MC LeBron,
I still think you would've preferred the DT770. Try to find one without too much bass?

Inanimate,
I personally would recommend the AKG Q701 or K612 at that price level, the soundstage of those headphones really help show-off the surround effect from sound processors such as the Mixamp. However, the amp built-into the Mixamp is pretty basic and about as powerful as a phone or MP3 player, so it'll be okay for starters but at some point I'd recommend getting an entry-level amp to plug in inbetween the headphones and Mixamp... Pretty much all higher-fidelity headphones benefit from higher quality amping.


PCunicorn,
If I could only choose between those, I'd get the HE-400, but I'd also get the velour Earpads and an amp to bring out more of the HE-400's potential, particularly an amp that actually adds some mids emphasis and maybe reduces the highs a bit. I haven't heard the DT990, but from Mad's review on the first post of this thread I gather that the DT990 and HE400 emphasize similar parts of the frequency spectrum (v-shaped), but the DT990 has sharper and more fatiguing treble for extended listening issues, and the HE-400 has really really nice bass extension and extra presence (and the velour pads help to mitigate some of the HE-400's own treble peakiness). I personally have a taste for more mids emphasis than headphones with v-shaped frequency curves, just sayin... YMMV.
I know you said ONLY choose between these two, but would you count the revised HE-400i (i for improved) as a possibility? Similar headphone but refined throughout, I think it's meant to replace the HE-400.


----------



## PCunicorn

Thanks. I probably won't be getting a Amp for a while, so that won't be possible for now. What's up with the "speaker strapped to your head" thing? That doesn't sound like it would be good for me to learn about headphones with (this is going to be my first set of "real" headphones)

Actually the reason why its only this is because those are the pairs a guy is willing to trade for my phone.


----------



## Evshrug

Lol well I'd recommend against literally strapping computer or tv speakers to your head! Sometimes people say "it sounds like speakers!" because the sound is of better quality and richer than they expect, or the headphone is good enough (soundstage and transparency) that the sound seems to emanate (there's a word!) from somewhere in your room you're in (or from beyond the walls of your room). All good things. Sometimes people also specifically say the HE-400 are like speakers strapped to your head because they have basically the least amount of isolation of any headphone I have ever seen... Other people will be able to clearly hear what you're listening to. Not as loud as a TV speaker or something, but not muffled at all. Not for use in environments where you need privacy, but what you gain is that sense if sounds coming from around you.

I definitely understand not having money to buy a whole audio system all at once, I just would like to encourage you that getting an amp eventually will benefit you. Melodies or pitch of songs won't change or something like that, but adding a good amp might literally make the difference between an enjoyable experience or a painful one. Also, keep in mind that after being a Head-Fi member for a while, you can trade your headphones in the For Sale forum. These two headphones are pretty advanced and distinctly tailored to a specific taste in sound, maybe not what I'd suggest for a "first" headphone but they're good quality and you'll learn a lot.

Also, you'll have fun with the very open-backed HE-400 hearing how cupping your hands within half a foot from the earcups will change the sound, lol!


----------



## PCunicorn

Do you mind telling me which type if sounds they are each tailored for?


----------



## Nagisan

New here, trying to find a good headset.
  
 After 2.5 years my Corsair 1500s finally decided to start giving me problems, the left ear-cup only produces audio if I hold the cord at a sharp angle around the in-line control.
  
 Looking for some recommendations on a good headset. Not necessarily gaming in design (don't need something flashy), but I need a built-in microphone and I want good sound quality (as good as I can afford) which favors accurate positional audio over high quality bass.
  
 Stereo with virtual 5.1 or 7.1 surround or actual surround 5.1 or 7.1 drivers doesn't matter, though I've read most actual surround sound drivers sacrifice sound quality to achieve surround. I am looking at closed-ear specifically, I don't want the sound leaking out (I know, open-ear offers better quality and positional audio).
  
 I would also like to move away from USB and use my on-board audio instead (I know, dedicated sound cards are much better, but I don't have the budget for both a headset and sound card UNLESS I can get like a $50 headset and $30 sound card that gives better quality than a $80 headset, but I've heard on-board audio is better than USB).
  
 Comfort is also a major thing, as it will be used for gaming it could be worn for hours at a time. Leather-style ear-cups offer better sound isolation but aren't as breathable (therefore not as desirable for long sessions) so I think I would prefer to stay with cloth ear-cups. Circumaural is preferable (if not required), I wear glasses and don't like headphones that rest on my ears, would rather have them around my ears.
  
 My budget is sadly only about $80 tops (maybe up to $100 if there's a very good reason for it, like $20 more than another headset but considerably better quality or something).
  
 I've been looking through headsets for the past day or so and here's what I've come up with:
  
 HyperX Cloud Gaming Headset ($80) - These seem very solid based on reviews, but they are only stereo and don't seem to have the best positional audio. Plus they are very new and don't have much in terms of reviews or any long-term owners to speak of their quality over time.
  
 SteelSeries Siberia V2 ($63) - Time-tested, good reviews overall but only stereo (non-USB version, at least, seems USB has virtual surround). Also earcups are leather (or close to it....) so sweating may become an issue. Some people also have problems with the mics after a few months (stop working and what not). Some reviews praise its positional audio, others slam it, but reviews are mixed between USB and non-USB versions.
  
 Turtle Beach Ear Force X12 ($41) - Another time-tested headset. Tons of reviews with a large majority of them high ratings. Cloth earcups but again only stereo with no comments on positional audio.
  
 Razer Tiamat 2.2 ($90) - Excellent positional audio reviews but leather earcups and a bit above my price range. Being a Razor product, I'm also worried about durability, I've owned various Razer products before and they have almost always died within a year.
  
  
 Again my total budget is only about $80, I'm currently leaning towards the Siberia V2 but haven't decided between the USB or 3.5mm version yet (USB would give me virtual surround). Would it be more beneficial to buy a cheaper headset (with surround) and buy a cheap sound card? My main priorities are positional audio (surround sound of some form), a mic (I only use it for voice chat, so I don't need a professional quality mic) and good sound quality (I'm not an audiophile, but obviously the best quality I can get for my budget and other requirements).
  
 Anyone have any recommendations based on what I am looking for? Or any comments to add about the headsets I'm currently looking at?


----------



## Evshrug

pcunicorn said:


> Do you mind telling me which type if sounds they are each tailored for?



They both have a V-shaped sound signature, so both of them are tailored to listeners who prefer to pay more attention to bass, drums, and cymbals and less attention to vocals and guitar. The HE400 is just a bit better at it.



nagisan said:


> New here, trying to find a good headset.
> 
> My budget is sadly only about $80 tops (maybe up to $100 if there's a very good reason for it, like $20 more than another headset but considerably better quality or something).




We pretty commonly see people ask for the sun and stars for really cheap, but there's few answers especially if you absolutely need an attached mic instead of just buying a $3 clip-on lapel mic like we get.

The Skullcandy SLYR is also worth looking into at your budget, pretty sturdily built but it also has Skullcandy's warranty service. This stereo headphone doesn't do positional audio on it's own.

To borrow an idea from your headphone list, you could get the Turtle Beach X12, and also buy the inexpensive Asus Xonar U3 as a surround processor. The U3 is about $30, and you can use it with any headphone, and if you want you can connect it to other amps or DACs later (so if your interest and budget grows, the U3 won't become obsolete). You could also use the U3 with the SLYR.

Good luck!


----------



## Yethal

nagisan said:


> HyperX Cloud Gaming Headset ($80) - These seem very solid based on reviews, but they are only stereo and don't seem to have the best positional audio. Plus they are very new and don't have much in terms of reviews or any long-term owners to speak of their quality over time.
> 
> SteelSeries Siberia V2 ($63) - Time-tested, good reviews overall but only stereo (non-USB version, at least, seems USB has virtual surround). Also earcups are leather (or close to it....) so sweating may become an issue. Some people also have problems with the mics after a few months (stop working and what not). Some reviews praise its positional audio, others slam it, but reviews are mixed between USB and non-USB versions.
> 
> ...


 
 If You really need a headset instead of headphones + external mic go with Sennheiser or Audio-technica headsets, these guy know audio much better than gaming headset companies
  
 I used siberias for quite some time and apart from extreme comfort there really is no reason to buy them


----------



## Stillhart

Why do you need a built-in mic?  It sounds like you're playing on a PC, which allows you a lot more freedom to use things like desktop mics.  Other than that, just get a cheap ass clip-on mic... the one I used was 3 for  $6 on Amazon -- I'll let any of the regulars in this thread tell you how it sounds.  If you get a cheap clip-on mic, that allows you to get much better headphones.  
  
 The Creative Aurvana Live is $70 on Amazon and probably your best bang for the buck in that price range.  It's also closed, which you wanted.  
  
 If you can stretch your budget, the Asus Xonar DG is pretty well-liked around here and it's $26 on Amazon.  A real sound card with Dolby Headphone surround will blow your onboard sound out of the water.  No, you're not giving up sound quality with surround processing.
  
 Between the Mic ($6), the CAL ($70) and the DG ($26), you're spending about $100 on a setup that will sound better than any of the ones you listed and allow you much more room to upgrade as your budget allows.
  
 That's my recommendation.  Good luck on your decision.


----------



## Nagisan

Despite mentioning needing a headset, I think after reading the last few posts and considering the options, headphones and an external mic might be the better options.
  
 I initially wanted a headset for convenience, but I can confirm I am using this setup on a desktop computer, so there are no issues on needing portability or anything that might arise with a mobile setup. Even further expanding, I do not use my mic extremely often, anywhere from a couple hours a week to a few hours a day (longer periods would be a couple hours a day for a few days at most).
  
  
 I think my best option may be something like the Stillhart suggested, buying the CAL headphones and a clipon mic, then maybe sometime later when I have a bit of extra spending room (wasn't planning on buying a headset anytime soon) pick up an audio card. I'm sure the audio card would make a huge difference but I'm also pretty certain the onboard audio + the CAL headphones will have better sound than my Corsair 1500s (looking it up, my motherboard claims to support 2/4/5.1/7.1-channel audio).
  
 That being said, any other recommendations in the $80 price range for headphones + mic or does the CAL headphones + a cheap mic seem like the most solid combination (adding in an audio card, probably around Christmas or something)?
  
 Thanks for the quick responses.


----------



## PCunicorn

evshrug said:


> They both have a V-shaped sound signature, so both of them are tailored to listeners who prefer to pay more attention to bass, drums, and cymbals and less attention to vocals and guitar. The HE400 is just a bit better at it.




Well that's fine. Mostly I listen to electronica. How is a V shaped sound signature for gaming?

Also, off topic: What is a U Shaped sound signature?


----------



## Stillhart

nagisan said:


> Despite mentioning needing a headset, I think after reading the last few posts and considering the options, headphones and an external mic might be the better options.
> 
> I initially wanted a headset for convenience, but I can confirm I am using this setup on a desktop computer, so there are no issues on needing portability or anything that might arise with a mobile setup. Even further expanding, I do not use my mic extremely often, anywhere from a couple hours a week to a few hours a day (longer periods would be a couple hours a day for a few days at most).
> 
> ...


 
  
 FYI, just because your on-board sound supports 5.1, doesn't mean it will do stereo virtual surround processing.  You will most likely just be using it in stereo until you can get a real sound card.
  
 And on that point, when you do finally grab one, I'd personally recommend the SB Z or SB Omni over the Asus.  But that's mostly because I prefer the SBX processing to the Dolby Headphone.  You can do more research on that stuff when the time comes.


----------



## Yethal

pcunicorn said:


> Well that's fine. Mostly I listen to electronica. How is a V shaped sound signature for gaming?
> 
> Also, off topic: What is a U Shaped sound signature?


 
 V shaped, it's when headphones have louder highs and basses and quieter mids (not exactly volume thing, just that these tones are more pronounced)


----------



## Nagisan

stillhart said:


> FYI, just because your on-board sound supports 5.1, doesn't mean it will do stereo virtual surround processing.  You will most likely just be using it in stereo until you can get a real sound card.
> 
> And on that point, when you do finally grab one, I'd personally recommend the SB Z or SB Omni over the Asus.  But that's mostly because I prefer the SBX processing to the Dolby Headphone.  You can do more research on that stuff when the time comes.


 
 Good to know, I suppose I could use something like http://www.razerzone.com/surround to simulate surround sound until I get a proper sound card. Guess I have more research to do on the subject.
  
 Until now I've always just bought a USB gaming headset and went with it, but spending $80+ on a headset to have it fail after awhile, requiring replacement of the entire thing (mic and headphones) is getting annoying. Most of the time its the headphones that go out on me, but being able to replace just the headphones and not the mic will be a major benefit, and when I can afford to upgrade to some higher quality headphones I can do so without worrying about the mic.


----------



## jaysins

Is it worth getting the Zxr over Zx sound card for gaming when I bypass it completely for music and already have an external amp?


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> Is it worth getting the Zxr over Zx sound card for gaming when I bypass it completely for music and already have an external amp?


 
 No, it's not.  Just get the plain Z, unless you REALLY need that volume knob.


----------



## Nagisan

Quote:


stillhart said:


> FYI, just because your on-board sound supports 5.1, doesn't mean it will do stereo virtual surround processing.  You will most likely just be using it in stereo until you can get a real sound card.


 
 After some more research into my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R if anyone is interested), here's what it says about the onboard audio:
  

Realtek ALC889 codec
High Definition Audio
2/4/5.1/7.1-channel
*Support for Dolby® Home Theater*
  
 Looking up Dolby Home Theater, it says: "Dolby Home Theater v4 elevates PC audio and delivers a surround sound experience through a PC's built-in speakers, any pair of headphones, or a connected home theater system."
  
 Based on that I should be set in terms of getting virtual surround sound with stereo headphones from my onboard audio until I can get a dedicated sound card.
  
 Thanks for all the help straightening me out and getting me started towards an actual audio experience (as opposed to regular gaming headsets). Gonna see when I can get this stuff ordered and hopefully soon hear everything I've been missing from a (more) proper setup.


----------



## Stillhart

nagisan said:


> Quote:
> After some more research into my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R if anyone is interested), here's what it says about the onboard audio:
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I've been looking into DHTv4 because I haven't heard it discussed yet.  I haven't really round any comparisons of the two.  I honestly don't know if it'll be any good or even do what you expect.  But you know, the price is right.  Check it out and let us know what you think!


----------



## Evshrug

pcunicorn said:


> Well that's fine. Mostly I listen to electronica. How is a V shaped sound signature for gaming?
> 
> Also, off topic: What is a U Shaped sound signature?



Well, it's still a bit of emphasized bass and treble, and a de-emphasized mids. A U-shaped frequency response is basically a gentler coloration of the V-shape, a little more balanced. A frequency response graph has a curve/line on it, the left side of the line covers the bass frequencies, the middle of the line is mids, and the right indicates treble. As the curve goes up from the center line, the frequency at that point is emphasized, de-emphasized if the line dips below the center line. The freq curve of the HE-400 looks pretty much like a V.




nagisan said:


> Quote:
> After some more research into my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R if anyone is interested), here's what it says about the onboard audio:
> 
> 
> ...







stillhart said:


> I've been looking into DHTv4 because I haven't heard it discussed yet.  I haven't really round any comparisons of the two.




I love Gigabyte motherboards.
Dolby Home Theater is used in the Asus U7 too, basically it has Dolby Headphone folded into it but also has some other do-dads for speakers.


----------



## theragekage

So when I got my q701s a month or two ago I never did a back to back comparison with the AD700x that they replaced. The other day I decided to and was blown away at the differences. While the AD700x is still awesome for competitive FPS, I still couldn't believe how bass deficient they truly are. It sounded like I had tin cans on my ears (tin cans with a truly great soundstage). It was pretty interesting switching back and forth mid game between the two. Even though the Q's are not known for their bass, it made me want to go back and play some of the games that I used the AD700's on, like LoU and tomb raider.


----------



## iamjonathan31

hmm, did some digging and realized that open cans are not something I can get due to sound leakage (mostly I game while my girlfriend sleeps)
  
 Does anyone have good experience with closed back headphones specifically for FPS gaming?  I've got a pair of momentums right now..will anything out there be significantly better for 300$ or less?


----------



## Stillhart

iamjonathan31 said:


> hmm, did some digging and realized that open cans are not something I can get due to sound leakage (mostly I game while my girlfriend sleeps)
> 
> Does anyone have good experience with closed back headphones specifically for FPS gaming?  I've got a pair of momentums right now..will anything out there be significantly better for 300$ or less?


 
 How close does your GF sleep while you're gaming and how loud do you game?  I find sound leakage to be pretty overblown at times.  Unless your GF is a spectacularly light sleeper and needs absolute silence, she won't notice.  If you have a fan on in the room, it'll be louder than your sound leakage.
  
 EDIT - DT770, CAL, HP100/HP150


----------



## PurpleAngel

iamjonathan31 said:


> hmm, did some digging and realized that open cans are not something I can get due to sound leakage (mostly I game while my girlfriend sleeps)
> 
> Does anyone have good experience with closed back headphones specifically for FPS gaming?  I've got a pair of momentums right now..will anything out there be significantly better for 300$ or less?


 
  
 What are you using to drive headphones?
  
 For the price, Audio Technica ATH-A900Xs or AKG K550s
 Find them used on eBay.


----------



## iamjonathan31

purpleangel said:


> What are you using to drive headphones?
> 
> For the price, Audio Technica ATH-A900Xs or AKG K550s
> Find them used on eBay.


 
  
 going to drive with a mixamp, which I just ordered


----------



## iamjonathan31

stillhart said:


> How close does your GF sleep while you're gaming and how loud do you game?  I find sound leakage to be pretty overblown at times.  Unless your GF is a spectacularly light sleeper and needs absolute silence, she won't notice.  If you have a fan on in the room, it'll be louder than your sound leakage.
> 
> EDIT - DT770, CAL, HP100/HP150


 
  
 we live in an open concept apartment (bedroom and living room are connected and separated by one wall that doesn't reach the height of the ceiling).  Basically just imagine two people on either end of a living room.  Does the sound leak for 8-10ft?  if it does and is anything more than a whisper, I probably can't take that option.  women :/
  
 I read another thread here on headfi where someone said the a700x will leak a LOT of sound and someone in the same room will definitely hear it.  No go for me if that's the case.


----------



## chicolom

stillhart said:


> I've been looking into DHTv4 because I haven't heard it discussed yet.


 
  
 Dolby Home Theater v4 is the same DSP as Dolby Headphone.
  


evshrug said:


> Dolby Home Theater is used in the Asus U7 too, basically it has Dolby Headphone folded into it but also has some other do-dads for speakers.


 
  
 Yeah, the U7 has it, but it doesn't work correctly as you can only feed it 2 channels so it's like pro logic instead.


----------



## xero404

iamjonathan31 said:


> we live in an open concept apartment (bedroom and living room are connected and separated by one wall that doesn't reach the height of the ceiling).  Basically just imagine two people on either end of a living room.  Does the sound leak for 8-10ft?  if it does and is anything more than a whisper, I probably can't take that option.  women :/
> 
> I read another thread here on headfi where someone said the a700x will leak a LOT of sound and someone in the same room will definitely hear it.  No go for me if that's the case.


 
 Had the same problem as you when my fiance and i lived rented a room and my desk was literally 2ft away from the bed and I *HAD *to make sure they headphones Isolated for my games. The Mad Dogs seem like they would fit the bill at  $300. The only noise i had to worry about waking her up was me making noises reacting the the game (Dota 2 makes me rage pretty hard).
  
 The Mad Dog is a cool option as well since you can upgrade them later on to Mad Dog Pro or Alpha Dogs. I ended up upgrading them to Alpha Dogs when i got more of a steady income coming in (promotions yay!) and they now have an exceptional sound-stage for a closed can.
  
 However, we recently moved to a 2 bedroom apartment where i have an office\mancave. The first thing i did was buy LCD2s now that i can get away with a noisy open can lol.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Dolby Home Theater v4 is the same DSP as Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Yeah, the U7 has it, but it doesn't work correctly as you can only feed it 2 channels so it's like pro logic instead.



Oh snap that's worthless, better off getting the cheaper U3! But if it's part of the motherboard, the question is if then you can feed it 5.1/7.1 channels?



iamjonathan31 said:


> we live in an open concept apartment (bedroom and living room are connected and separated by one wall that doesn't reach the height of the ceiling).  Basically just imagine two people on either end of a living room.  Does the sound leak for 8-10ft?  if it does and is anything more than a whisper, I probably can't take that option.  women :/
> 
> I read another thread here on headfi where someone said the a700x will leak a LOT of sound and someone in the same room will definitely hear it.  No go for me if that's the case.



A700x is closed and probably doesn't leak much, the AD700x (notice the D) is open and leaks a fair bit.
So maybe there's a wall that doesn't reach the ceiling, does it occlude the sound enough to be unnoticeable while you play music through earbuds? And like Still said, most open cans (the Q701 and DT880 are partially closed, with some leakage reduction) aren't louder than a fan, one idea is you can run a fan and the soft noise will overpower the leakage from your headphones. I find the loudest thing when I game with headphones is me saying "Holy Crap!!!" to my microphone.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> Oh snap that's worthless, better off getting the cheaper U3!
> 
> But if it's part of the motherboard, the question is if then you can feed it 5.1/7.1 channels?


 
  
 That's exactly what I did.
  
  
 It's more likely to work on the motherboard me thinks.  The problem with the Xonar was once you flipped it to "headphone" mode, the Xonar software locked it into a 2 channel configuration.  Hopefully a motherboard will let you set it to 5.1/7.1 channels though.


----------



## DesmondKSA

Some questions before I buy - Fildelio X1 - TubeMagic D1 Plus - V-moda BoomPro

 My Goal:
  - Play games on ( PC - PS3 - Laptop - PS Vita )
  - Be able to chat ( Skype - Online Games )
  - Use the same combination to watch movies and Anime and play games
  - Use the same headphone for my phone, and iPod and PS Vita

 I am dominantly a PC gamer but I do play on my PS3 sometimes. I also love to watch high quality movies and anime.

 My questions:
  - Does an amp make a big difference with the X1s?
  - Since these are open cans, how much noise is radiated into my surrounding area? If I was on a plane would I annoy people around me?
  - Is the V-moda cable a good quality cable? I've always been a nut about high quality cables and power filtering.
  - Which is best TubeMagic D1 Plus or Schiit Modi + Mangi ?


----------



## Nagisan

stillhart said:


> I've been looking into DHTv4 because I haven't heard it discussed yet.  I haven't really round any comparisons of the two.  I honestly don't know if it'll be any good or even do what you expect.  But you know, the price is right.  Check it out and let us know what you think!



 

Sadly I couldn't get DHT working from my motherboard, I installed the audio drivers and the DHT program but it just didn't seem to work (it detected the headphones and all, but turning it off/on didn't change how 3D-audio sounded). 

I decided to try the Razer Surround program I mentioned earlier (which simulates surround sound for any headset as well) and it worked surprisingly well. I have a cheap Logitech Stereo Headset H150 sitting around to test it with (using on-board audio vs my Corsair 1500s), the sound quality is quite a bit worse, but that's to be expected comparing a $15 headset to a $90 (the seem to run $100+ now) headset. As far as the 3d effect though, the Razer Surround seems to do a very good job, I actually prefer the surround from the Razer software on the cheap Logitech headset than my 1500s (being able to calibrate the effect helps, I can modify the exact positioning of the 7 points in the Razer software, can't do that with my 1500s).

I guess all that's left is to bite the bullet and buy some headphones and a mic then throw in a sound card when I can.

Thanks for all the suggestions, tips and help to everyone who replied.


----------



## Stillhart

desmondksa said:


> Some questions before I buy - Fildelio X1 - TubeMagic D1 Plus - V-moda BoomPro
> 
> My Goal:
> - Play games on ( PC - PS3 - Laptop - PS Vita )
> ...


 
  
 - An amp doesn't make a big difference, no.  But it will make a difference.  One of the nice things about the X1 is that it doesn't need an amp as much as some other headphones.
 - Noise leakage out is about the same as any open can:  it will be noticeable to someone sitting right next to you for sure.  Leakage *in* is the bigger problem on the plane.  You really don't want to use an open can on a plane.
 - Yes, it's a good quality cable.  I think it sounds better than stock.  You will likely like the stock cable better since it's thicker and nicer looking (but it doesn't sound better).
 - I've not heard either of those.  I was considering the Tubemagic at one point because it has an optical input for the DAC.  That will allow you to add a sound card later for virtual surround.  I ended up not getting it because I was worried about some quality issues.
  
 I ended up spending a little more and getting a used Audio-GD NFB-15.32 (mine was like $235?).  I think it's well worth the money if you can snag one.  Amazing bang for the buck.


----------



## ursow94

Hi, sorry for disturb you guys again, but i still dont decided what headphone to buy.
 Here the options again:
 AD700X
 HD598
 K701/K702/Q701
 PC G4ME One
  
 I have $200-250 to spend and i wil buy on amazon, my focus is basically FPS games. I can ignore the difference of prices if is on this price ($250). Please give me opinions and sorry for disturbing!


----------



## NamelessPFG

iamjonathan31 said:


> Does anyone have good experience with closed back headphones specifically for FPS gaming?  I've got a pair of momentums right now..will anything out there be significantly better for 300$ or less?


 
  
 I can get some surprisingly good positioning out of my Beyerdynamic MMX 300, basically a DT770 Premium 32-ohm with a nice mic built-in and an insane price premium compared to buying a DT770 and separate mic, unless you get a good used deal on it.
  
 Assuming that most of the DT770 variants sound similar, I'd say they'd be capable of doing the job, but there's a whole lot of talk about bass-light and bass-heavy versions, not to mention all the different impedances and Pro vs. Premium models (noticeable by the earcups; the Premium ones are discontinued right now, but look more like the MMX 300 sans mic in their roundedness and lack of ridge in the middle of the cups).


----------



## chicolom

ursow94 said:


> Hi, sorry for disturb you guys again, but i still dont decided what headphone to buy.
> Here the options again:
> AD700X
> HD598
> ...


 
  
  
 I'd go with the Q701.
  
 If you prefer a headset, the G4ME One is OK, although the Q701 is better for music and single player games.


----------



## jaysins

Thanks for your response stillhart. You mentioned you originally wanted a DAC with an optical port. Is going through the headphone port on your sound card, or optical to a DAC to your headphones going to give you a better surround sound experience?


----------



## conquerator2

jaysins said:


> Thanks for your response stillhart. You mentioned you originally wanted a DAC with an optical port. Is going through the headphone port on your sound card, or optical to a DAC to your headphones going to give you a better surround sound experience?




If you go through a decent dedicated DAC, it will though only a few DSPs allow it, like the U3.
It's not a possibility on consoles yet though, only PC.


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> Thanks for your response stillhart. You mentioned you originally wanted a DAC with an optical port. Is going through the headphone port on your sound card, or optical to a DAC to your headphones going to give you a better surround sound experience?


 
 I go from the optical out of my Sound Blaster Omni to the DAC/Amp combo.  This is a significantly improved sound (for music) over just the Sound Blaster and still allows for virtual surround.  For gaming, you will never notice the difference.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

Man I'm trying so hard to fight the urge to pick up these SoundMAGIC HP200s for 160. I haven't even taken my Q701s out the box and I'm already looking at new headphones I want to try. Dang you head-fi. Lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Is there any reason to choose the HP200s over my Q701s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not headphone related, but for the past few days I have been absolutely obsessed with Dragon's Crown on the PS3/Vita. Ps Plus has it for free, and had I known I'd be this hooked, I would've bought it ages ago. So good.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Not headphone related, but for the past few days I have been absolutely obsessed with Dragon's Crown on the PS3/Vita. Ps Plus has it for free, and had I known I'd be this hooked, I would've bought it ages ago. So good.


 
  
 Also got it thanks to PS+, and I'm wondering if you'd be up for some co-op in the near future, since the game supports it and all!
  
 Admitted, I haven't touched it much and would have a beginner character more or less, but that's mainly because I tend to abstain from playing games with co-op if I don't have friends around to join in. Just doesn't feel right to me, you know?


----------



## jaysins

I really enjoy by O2 DAC/AMP but would really love to have an optical in port. I was debating whether to sell it and get the Audio-GD NFB 11, as I love analytical sounding, or getting a something to convert the S/PDIF into an analog format. Could you technically plug your Audio-GD into the xbox one optical and not need additional equipment?


----------



## nito

Are there any opinions about Throat/Neck Microphones? Since they work via skin contact, the Neck/Throat microphone won't need noise canceling technology and no modding of expensive Headphones required.

 Thanks in advance - Nito


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> Man I'm trying so hard to fight the urge to pick up these SoundMAGIC HP200s for 160. I haven't even taken my Q701s out the box and I'm already looking at new headphones I want to try. Dang you head-fi. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The sound signature is slightly different, the HP200 is slightly easier to drive, the Q701 probably has a higher SQ ceiling.  The differences are pretty minimal though and the HP200 is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
  


jaysins said:


> I really enjoy by O2 DAC/AMP but would really love to have an optical in port. I was debating whether to sell it and get the Audio-GD NFB 11, as I love analytical sounding, or getting a something to convert the S/PDIF into an analog format. Could you technically plug your Audio-GD into the xbox one optical and not need additional equipment?


 
  
 You can use the Audio-GD with the Xbox One via optical, but you will only get stereo.  I haven't heard the O2/ODAC so I have no idea how the sound will compare, but I love having my optical input so I can have virtual surround on my gaming PC with the great DAC from the Audio-GD.
  


nito said:


> Are there any opinions about Throat/Neck Microphones? Since they work via skin contact, the Neck/Throat microphone won't need noise canceling technology and no modding of expensive Headphones required.
> 
> Thanks in advance - Nito


 
 I haven't looked into these in a few (ten?) years.  I wanted one for comms on my motorcycle (no wind/engine/exhaust noise to deal with), but they were all too finnicky with placement and didn't work half the time.  Not to mention it was hard to get them to sound halfway decent.
  
 I'm sure tech has progressed since then, but yeah.  Not sure why it'd be an improvement over a simple clip-on mic for gaming.  I've never felt the need for noise cancelling when using headphones...


----------



## Yethal

V-Moda boom pro doesn't require any modding either and it's already been battletested


----------



## Silent Xaxal

namelesspfg said:


> Also got it thanks to PS+, and I'm wondering if you'd be up for some co-op in the near future, since the game supports it and all!
> 
> Admitted, I haven't touched it much and would have a beginner character more or less, but that's mainly because I tend to abstain from playing games with co-op if I don't have friends around to join in. Just doesn't feel right to me, you know?


 
  
 Hit me up if you need someone else joining in on the fun.


----------



## theragekage

On a random note, anyone else watch any of the gamescomm stuff? I completely forgot about quantum break and was pumped to see gameplay footage. I am a huge fan of remedy and the Max Payne franchise so this game gives me all the feelz. 

As a huge halo fanboy I was really pumped to see the remastered sanctuary for MCC. Also, the announcement of the halo 5 beta with 7 maps, and 4v4 arena style gameplay actually makes me have faith that 343i might do something worthwhile for once. 

I was, however, a little disappointed that destiny didn't show more footage. Hopefully we will get to see more from the floor over the next couple of days.


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> On a random note, anyone else watch any of the gamescomm stuff? I completely forgot about quantum break and was pumped to see gameplay footage. I am a huge fan of remedy and the Max Payne franchise so this game gives me all the feelz.
> 
> As a huge halo fanboy I was really pumped to see the remastered sanctuary for MCC. Also, the announcement of the halo 5 beta with 7 maps, and 4v4 arena style gameplay actually makes me have faith that 343i might do something worthwhile for once.
> 
> I was, however, a little disappointed that destiny didn't show more footage. Hopefully we will get to see more from the floor over the next couple of days.


 
 I don't think Destiny really has anything left to prove at this point.  Now it's just a matter of keeping it fresh in people's minds for 4 more weeks.  Don't forget, PAX is coming up too, so more time for hype, a scant week and a half before release...
  
 QB looked awesome.  Tomb Raider as an Xbone exclusive will piss off PC gamers, which isn't maybe the wisest move.  Sony announced some really amazing-looking indy games (Rime, Wild, Hellblade, Tearaway for PS4, Tomorrow Children)... this is actually huge for me since PS4 has been really short on good exclusives.  Even Drive Club looked fun, though I doubt I'll get it over Forza Horizons 2.  
  
 All in all, a great time to be a gamer on any console.


----------



## AxelCloris

Just read about Share Play on the PlayStation blog. Sounds pretty darned awesome if you ask me.
  
 "The best way to think about Share Play is like a 'virtual couch'. PlayStation 4 will create an online local co-op experience by allowing you to invite a friend to join your game—even when they don’t own a copy of it. With this first-of-its-kind feature, you’ll be able to play games with a friend just as if you were together in the same room. Let’s say that with games… you’ll be able to invite your friend online to play against the Miami Heat for the championship as the San Antonio Spurs in NBA2K, tackle the challenging Towerfall Ascension Quest Mode together, or aide, heal, and protect you as Igniculus in Child of Light’s local co-op mode."
  
 So if you buy a game specifically for co-op then your partner won't need to own it, that's awesome. I'd use it to get a friend into BF4 with me.


----------



## martin vegas

P.T ps4 gameplay demo on psn is one twisted game..it's a lot worse than the manhunt games..i am surprised it got past the sensors..sounds like a baby is screaming in a box tied to the ceiling!


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Just read about Share Play on the PlayStation blog. Sounds pretty darned awesome if you ask me.
> 
> "The best way to think about Share Play is like a 'virtual couch'. PlayStation 4 will create an online local co-op experience by allowing you to invite a friend to join your game—even when they don’t own a copy of it. With this first-of-its-kind feature, you’ll be able to play games with a friend just as if you were together in the same room. Let’s say that with games… you’ll be able to invite your friend online to play against the Miami Heat for the championship as the San Antonio Spurs in NBA2K, tackle the challenging Towerfall Ascension Quest Mode together, or aide, heal, and protect you as Igniculus in Child of Light’s local co-op mode."
> 
> So if you buy a game specifically for co-op then your partner won't need to own it, that's awesome. I'd use it to get a friend into BF4 with me.


 

 Handy if you are stuck on a hard part of the game, you can invite a mate on to do them bits for you!


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

axelcloris said:


> Just read about Share Play on the PlayStation blog. Sounds pretty darned awesome if you ask me.
> 
> "The best way to think about Share Play is like a 'virtual couch'. PlayStation 4 will create an online local co-op experience by allowing you to invite a friend to join your game—even when they don’t own a copy of it. With this first-of-its-kind feature, you’ll be able to play games with a friend just as if you were together in the same room. Let’s say that with games… you’ll be able to invite your friend online to play against the Miami Heat for the championship as the San Antonio Spurs in NBA2K, tackle the challenging Towerfall Ascension Quest Mode together, or aide, heal, and protect you as Igniculus in Child of Light’s local co-op mode."
> 
> So if you buy a game specifically for co-op then your partner won't need to own it, that's awesome. I'd use it to get a friend into BF4 with me.


 
  
 That sounds SOOOOOO AWESOME!!! I've been completely stuck on the new X-Box One bundles/editions they announced. I want to wait for the 1tb Black console, as it matches the rest of my equipment, but I think I'll just get the 500gb version and add an external drive to compensate for space. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## NamelessPFG

silent xaxal said:


> Hit me up if you need someone else joining in on the fun.


 
  
 Duly noted.
  
 Dragon's Crown aside, I'm kinda feeling in a Battlefield mood right now, but I really don't want to go pub-diving like I used to without any friends on voice chat backing me up.
  
 I'm thinking of giving BF3 PC multiplayer a chance for once, but it sounds like everyone's already moved to BF4.
  
 Also, there's PAYDAY 2 if anyone's got that.
  


axelcloris said:


> Just read about Share Play on the PlayStation blog. Sounds pretty darned awesome if you ask me.
> "The best way to think about Share Play is like a 'virtual couch'. PlayStation 4 will create an online local co-op experience by allowing you to invite a friend to join your game—even when they don’t own a copy of it. With this first-of-its-kind feature, you’ll be able to play games with a friend just as if you were together in the same room. Let’s say that with games… you’ll be able to invite your friend online to play against the Miami Heat for the championship as the San Antonio Spurs in NBA2K, tackle the challenging Towerfall Ascension Quest Mode together, or aide, heal, and protect you as Igniculus in Child of Light’s local co-op mode."
> 
> So if you buy a game specifically for co-op then your partner won't need to own it, that's awesome. I'd use it to get a friend into BF4 with me.


 
  
 It's about time a console had a feature like this!
  
 Too bad it probably won't apply to the PS3 as well, since I don't intend on buying a PS4 for a while. Maybe when it gets cheaper, like that $200 Cowboom deal I heard about earlier.


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> It's about time a console had a feature like this!
> 
> Too bad it probably won't apply to the PS3 as well, since I don't intend on buying a PS4 for a while. Maybe when it gets cheaper, like that $200 Cowboom deal I heard about earlier.


 
  
 I do hope that deal comes back around again. After I picked up mine I spent the rest of the day trying to get a second for a friend. No luck there unfortunately, apparently I spent all of mine getting the first one. The $200 price made it a no-brainer for me, and the new game sharing functionality is doing a great job of reaffirming my decision to buy one.


----------



## jaysins

So I've had time to compare the Xonar and Creative sounds cards today with my external AMP. I've noticed that I'm a bit more accurate with the Creative card as when playing some test games I can very precisely pick out where enemies are behind walls and such, a bit more so than with the Xonar. We're talking about a few degrees at a 20 ft range in game, but it is definitely useful as you get the kill a bit quicker. I did reloads of a saved file and basically did several blind tests with my eyes closed to see which I was more accurate with to objectify my testing. I agree with what others have said about creative being a bit more sharp with the sounds which does help distinguish what is going on when you have several audible distractions. I had to turn off Crystalizer on the Creative card as it was making the gun shots in border lands 2 very harsh and I couldn't get used to with my short time with it on. Overall I'm very happy with my Creative Zx and am going to return the Xonar as newegg shipped me the ST when I had ordered the STX so no return shipping fee .


----------



## jaysins

I'm currently very happy with my gaming setup and have purchased a lot of equipment since I stumbled onto the gaming section of hi-fi. Thank you Mad Lust Envy, Stillhart, Chicolom and everyone who helped me in my purchases. I'll probably add another DAC/AMP and really high end headphone in the near future. I want a DAC with optical in and I've wanted to try out the HD800 for a long time now. Hopefully in the next 6 months.


----------



## ursow94

In terms of Competitive FPS Gaming, it still the better option? My focus is the competitive gaming. Ty!


----------



## ursow94

chicolom said:


> I'd go with the Q701.
> 
> If you prefer a headset, the G4ME One is OK, although the Q701 is better for music and single player games.


 
 In terms of Competitive FPS Gaming, the Q701 it still the better option? My focus will be the competitive on fps games. Thanks for the answer!


----------



## Evshrug

The Q701 is essentially tied at best for competitive, and one that also ranks near the top for fun to listen to music, movies, and single player. One of the best all-rounders for competitive, fun, surround, and value, it's price makes it a crazy good value. The Q701 appreciation is still very active, and a few mods have been found, good amp pairings are suggested. The K612 is a little less refined, a little less soundstage, (and no detachable cable) but also a little less money, easily the next choice if the Q701 is out of your budget IMO. But if you can save up for another few weeks or a month, the Q701 conceivably could satisfy enough to be endgame for many years.


----------



## appsmarsterx

evshrug said:


> The Q701 is essentially tied at best for competitive, and one that also ranks near the top for fun to listen to music, movies, and single player. One of the best all-rounders for competitive, fun, surround, and value, it's price makes it a crazy good value. The Q701 appreciation is still very active, and a few mods have been found, good amp pairings are suggested. The K612 is a little less refined, a little less soundstage, (and no detachable cable) but also a little less money, easily the next choice if the Q701 is out of your budget IMO. But if you can save up for another few weeks or a month, the Q701 conceivably could satisfy enough to be endgame for many years.





I  wish AKG could come up with a flat headband design for q701 (without the headband bumps). because lack of comfort might be a deal breker for some people..  both 701,612 are great options but I didn't find q701 as the more refined one. to me both have same refinement.


----------



## Yethal

appsmarsterx said:


> I  wish AKG could come up with a flat headband design for q701 (without the headband bumps). because lack of comfort might be a deal breker for some people..  both 701,612 are great options but I didn't find q701 as the more refined one. to me both have same refinement.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hand-Woven-Pure-Wool-Headband-Cushion-For-AKG-K701-K702-Q701-Headphones-/261445245520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item3cdf59da50
  
 This might come in handy


----------



## Gladzilla

should i install batteries on a 2009 mixamp to get better sound vs without batteries?


----------



## Stillhart

appsmarsterx said:


> I  wish AKG could come up with a flat headband design for q701 (without the headband bumps). because lack of comfort might be a deal breker for some people..  both 701,612 are great options but I didn't find q701 as the more refined one. to me both have same refinement.


 
 There have been MANY suggested fixes for this in the Q701 thread.  The one both Evs and I use cost about $9 on Amazon (tho I already had one because I used it for what it was for:  a baby carseat strap pad).  Also keep in mind that many people don't have issues with the comfort.


----------



## benbenkr

Holy...! PT in DH is... the best game I've heard all year. Yeah, even better than TLoU Remastered.


----------



## D126

Hi Mad Lust,
  
 Thank you for putting together this guide!
  
 A few questions for you or anyone who can answer:
  
 1. As someone with large ears, I am concerned about going from a PC360 to another option. How would you rank the size of the earcups for the DT-990, HE-400, Sennheiser 650, AKG K712 Pro? I'm guessing that the Sennheiser 650 (same as the PC360) has the largest earcup? 
  
 2. Would a Magni properly drive the AKG K712?
  
 3. Unamped, would the DT-990 or the AKG K712 perform better (on a phone let's say)?


----------



## macro

Hey Mad Lust Envy, I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to continually review these headphones, write all this up, and share it with us. I'm in the market for some new gaming/movie headphones, and this has probably been the single most helpful resource I've found. Thank you!


----------



## jaysins

d126 said:


> Hi Mad Lust,
> 
> Thank you for putting together this guide!
> 
> ...




The K712 has a pretty good size cup, I can measure it for you later today if you'd like. 

I don't have the magni but others that do have said it is adequate for the k712's.

Unamped the k712 doesn't sound very impressive. It's not horrible but it benefits greatly from an amp.


----------



## D126

jaysins said:


> The K712 has a pretty good size cup, I can measure it for you later today if you'd like.
> 
> I don't have the magni but others that do have said it is adequate for the k712's.
> 
> Unamped the k712 doesn't sound very impressive. It's not horrible but it benefits greatly from an amp.


 
 Yeah - that'd be great. I found some screenshots of the PC360 Ear Pads (70mmx43mm) : http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/rG4AAOxy9eVRMGiM/$(KGrHqNHJE!FElO+iUdKBRMGiLjLE!~~60_57.JPG
  
 The DT-990 is 53mmx53mm.
  
 Have you tried the HE-400? I would be interested in seeing if there is more ear pad room in the HE-400 or the K712s.


----------



## kman1211

d126 said:


> Hi Mad Lust,
> 
> Thank you for putting together this guide!
> 
> ...


 

 The K712 has the largest and deepest earcups of the headphones you listed. The HD 650 has the smallest.
  
 It will drive the K712 fine, not sure about synergy though.
  
 I would say the DT 990 is a bit easier to drive than the K712.


----------



## D126

99% settled on the K712.
  
 I am currently using the Xonar DX and I am planning on buying the Magni as an amp. 
  
 Do you guys think a Xonar DX + Magni combo would work with the K712? Would you guys upgrade the soundcard/amp a bit more? Like a ZxR or STX? I don't really know any amps besides the Magni, so I'm open to suggestions for those as well.


----------



## IBIubbleTea

d126 said:


> 99% settled on the K712.
> 
> I am currently using the Xonar DX and I am planning on buying the Magni as an amp.
> 
> Do you guys think a Xonar DX + Magni combo would work with the K712? Would you guys upgrade the soundcard/amp a bit more? Like a ZxR or STX? I don't really know any amps besides the Magni, so I'm open to suggestions for those as well.


 
 Just wondering but why do you even have a soundcard? is it just for the surround?


----------



## Yethal

Looks loke the Asus DX has an S/PDIF out port. Adding an optical DAC to the chain should improve the sound quality


----------



## D126

ibiubbletea said:


> Just wondering but why do you even have a soundcard? is it just for the surround?


 
 Yup.


----------



## D126

-Gonna copy one of my posts from a thread I made over (since it is probably buried - lol).
  
 I'm looking at getting a Soundcard + Amp for an AKG K712 Pro. The reason I'm thinking I'd like a soundcard is so that I am able to play with Surround Sound (for future games).
  
 I'd like to keep the amps below 200...
  
 I currently see the following amps:
 Schiit Magni
 Schiit Vali
 O2 
  
 Which of these 3 are the best, and am I missing any good headphone amps in the sub 200 dollar range?
  
 In terms of soundcards I see:
 Creative ZxR
 Xonar STX
 Xonar DX (Currently Own - Should I consider just keeping this and pairing it with one of the above amps?)
  
 Which of these 2 are the best, and am I missing any other soundcard options?
  
 Thanks for your help all!


----------



## Change is Good

d126 said:


> -Gonna copy one of my posts from a thread I made over (since it is probably buried - lol).
> 
> I'm looking at getting a Soundcard + Amp for an AKG K712 Pro. The reason I'm thinking I'd like a soundcard is so that I am able to play with Surround Sound (for future games).
> 
> ...




As far as standalone amps are concerned, you can find a used Asgard 2 for under $200 in the classifieds, here. I would say that will be the best bang for buck, while providing ample synergy, when pairing with your K712.


----------



## nito

Hi Yethal,
  
 I was thinking about the V-Moda but it does not fit most of the high ranked Headphones listed or my Koss KSC75 (thinking about upgrading to the HD 598 in the future).

 Based on Stillhart's recommendation, I'll try out a clip on Microphone.
  
 Thanks for your advice - Nito


----------



## PurpleAngel

d126 said:


> 99% settled on the K712.
> I am currently using the Xonar DX and I am planning on buying the Magni as an amp.
> Do you guys think a Xonar DX + Magni combo would work with the K712? Would you guys upgrade the soundcard/amp a bit more? Like a ZxR or STX? I don't really know any amps besides the Magni, so I'm open to suggestions for those as well.


 
  
 I would consider the Magni headphone amplifier a little better then the amp built into the ZxR or STX.
 The Xonar DX and Essence STX use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.
 So buying the Magni (or Vali? or other amp) and plugging it into the Xonar DX should work well for you.


----------



## jaysins

If it's going to be mostly for games and positional cues and being able to place where other players are I would recommend getting a Creative Z instead of the Xonar Zxr. The only reason I ended up with the Zx is that Newegg had an awesome sale on it and it was only $10 more than the Z. I actually still have both the Xonar ST and the Zx in my possession until I mail back the Xonar and from a lot of experimentation that I've done with it over the last couple days I've been happier with Creative's surround sound. I haven't heard your particular sound card but I'm sure if you google it you can find a comparison or two. The amps in the sound cards while pretty decent for what they are, will not give you as good of sound as a dedicated amp. If you want a great music experience I'd say a good DAC/AMP combo is in order.


----------



## chicolom

benbenkr said:


> Holy...! PT in DH is... the best game I've heard all year. Yeah, even better than TLoU Remastered.


 
  
 FWIR "PT" is a "playable teaser" for a new Silent Hill reboot game.
  
 Wonder if it's using AMD TrueAudio...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

STOP SPOILING YOU MAD FOOLS.

Jk, I'm not a horror fan anyways.

So Xillia 2 is out next week, so don't expect much of any gameplay from me for any other game for a good while. Lots of rpgs coming out.


----------



## Change is Good

I absolutely love horror games. I grew up on the first Resident Evil and Silent Hill. The first Dead Space was nice when the PS3 came around, and I heard much about the first BioShock. I'm actually hyped at what next gen has in store for us horror fans. Bloodborne looks hype, and it being an RPG makes it even more intriguing.


----------



## benbenkr

chicolom said:


> FWIR "PT" is a "playable teaser" for a new Silent Hill reboot game.
> 
> Wonder if it's using AMD TrueAudio...


 
  
 Yes, I was troll'd hard at the end. But damn it, to get to the end was quite some heart-wrenching experience. The positional cues is just sublime. I mean that... baby. That... BABY man! Oh God. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Don't think TrueAudio is at work, did play it in stereo and clearly the rear cues weren't quite there. DH fixed that though. Not that the teaser is in anyways less scarier in stereo of course.


----------



## D126

purpleangel said:


> I would consider the Magni headphone amplifier a little better then the amp built into the ZxR or STX.
> The Xonar DX and Essence STX use the same C-Media CMI8788 audio processor.
> So buying the Magni (or Vali? or other amp) and plugging it into the Xonar DX should work well for you.


 
 This may sound silly, but is it possible using an external DAC and a soundcard at the same time?
  
 I could hold onto my Xonar DX and make it go through a Magni for when I needed surround, and when I am only needing stereo, I could just unplug my amp from the soundcard and plug it into the external DAC.
  
 Also, what are your guy's thoughts on Magni vs Vali for the AKG K712? I saw that Magni has below 1 impedance and the Vali is like 6 impedance. Which one would be better for the 63 ohm (or power hungry) impedance of the K712?


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I absolutely love horror games. I grew up on the first Resident Evil and Silent Hill. The first Dead Space was nice when the PS3 came around, and I heard much about the first BioShock. I'm actually hyped at what next gen has in store for us horror fans. Bloodborne looks hype, and it being an RPG makes it even more intriguing.


 

 They are making resident evil one again in 1080p and 60fps..they should do resi 2 and 3 and silent hill 1 again!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The reason they are doing RE1 was because it was already remade, and they're taking the assets from the last remake and improving on those. They won't remake the sequels (at least anytime soon) because it would basically be making a whole new game. Prerendered backgrounds aren't cheap, and I assume are actually more time consuming that just a game with a standard 3D world which can be manipulated via camera movement.

Basically, anything post Code Veronica can be remade, with a lot less time and budget.

This is the same reason why a game like Final Fantasy 7-9 would be a monumental and costly thing to remake. EVERYTHING would have to be redone from the ground up. Just look at the Steam version of these games. They still look like crap, because the backgrounds were prerendered at low resolution. Had the backgrounds been made at a high pc resolution bqck in the 90s, they MAY have been salvageable for a remaster, at the most. The only things that they could more easily remake on these vames would be the battles, as they were rendered in 3D. HOWEVER, the battles were pre-baked at really low framerates, with no way to raise them, even on PC.


----------



## Yethal

d126 said:


> This may sound silly, but is it possible using an external DAC and a soundcard at the same time?
> 
> I could hold onto my Xonar DX and make it go through a Magni for when I needed surround, and when I am only needing stereo, I could just unplug my amp from the soundcard and plug it into the external DAC.
> 
> Also, what are your guy's thoughts on Magni vs Vali for the AKG K712? I saw that Magni has below 1 impedance and the Vali is like 6 impedance. Which one would be better for the 63 ohm (or power hungry) impedance of the K712?


 
 If the DAC has optical input and the soundcard has optical output then yes, it is possible, that way you still get virtual surround but bypass the card's own internal dac


----------



## D126

yethal said:


> If the DAC has optical input and the soundcard has optical output then yes, it is possible, that way you still get virtual surround but bypass the card's own internal dac


 
 I didn't word that well. I mean can you have a soundcard AND an external DAC plugged into a computer at the same time. That way you can swap between using soundcard->amp->headset for when you want surround sound and external USB DAC->amp->headset for when you are listening to stereo (unplugging the amp from the soundcard and plugging it into the external DAC and vice versa).
  
 For that matter, is it possible to synergizing the soundcard and external DAC by using the microphone input port of the soundcard AND using the external USB DAC for your headphones at the same time?


----------



## Yethal

It is physically possible but it's unnecessary hassle, just plug the dac into the soundcard ad the amp into the dac that way you  get the best of both. If you want to get back to stereo just switch from surround to stereo in the soundcard's driver


----------



## D126

yethal said:


> It is physically possible but it's unnecessary hassle, just plug the dac into the soundcard ad the amp into the dac that way you  get the best of both. If you want to get back to stereo just switch from surround to stereo in the soundcard's driver


 


  
 So, you are saying get the Optical Input version rather than the USB version? And then connect the Modi by using an optical cable between the soundcard and the modi?
  
 I remember reading that Optical Input is lower quality than RCA/Headphone Jack... Is it possible that this method would lose audio quality over just using a USB external DAC?
  
 In other words:
  
 Xonar DX Optical Output -> Schitt Modi Optical Input -> Schitt Modi RCA Output -> Schitt Magni RCA Input -> Schitt Magni Headphone out -> K712 Headphone in
  
 vs
  
 Computer USB Output -> USB Schitt USB Input -> USB Schitt Modi RCA Output -> Schitt Magni RCA Input -> Schitt Magni Headphone out -> K712 Headphone in
  
 Would the sound quality be the same? Or could going over the Optical reduce SQ?
  
 Edit: Dang, my Xonar DX has the Optical Out/Microphone In doubled up... So even then Microphone into soundcard + USB External DAC for my Headphones might be my best option. If I did upgrade soundcards, I would get the Optical Out/Microphone In seperate. However, at that point is an external DAC even better than let's say an STX/ZxR DAC?
  
 So my questions at this point:
  
 1. Is it okay to leave a Soundcard + USB DAC in at same time for Microphone sake
 2. Is STX/ZXR DAC better than Modi DAC?
 3. Does Optical Out degrade quality over RCA?


----------



## Xander Shade

Hi Mad Lust Envy,
  
 I am really new to the gaming headphone life. Being new and not knowing any better I originally went to Turtle Beach. But I just couldn't find a headphone that really struck my fancy. There was no way I was going to pay 300 dollars for a gaming headset that might break in 6 months. So I did a lot of research and a lot of reading. I eventually came across a site that swore by Sennheiser's. So I ventured into a realm of a true audiophile.
  
 I have looked at the PC 350 SE, PC 323D. I wasn't really sold on the PC 363D.  So for quite some time I was pretty much focused on the PC 350 SE. Then I read some other sites and they swore by the Sennheiser HD 558. So then I was focused on that one. Until I read your forum post about headphones. I really liked the ATH-AD700 from what you had stated. It looked as though it might be one I might be interested in, I even found one that was well priced. But like a fool I passed on it and waited. And when I made my decision it was gone.
  
 So now I am a bit perplexed by all the headphones I have looked at and read about. These headphones will be mainly for consoles. Xbox 360 and the PS4. I do some competitive gaming on the consoles, while I play some games on the PC I don't play anything competitive. A really nice soundstage like the ATH-AD700 would be great or something at least close to that. I would prefer to spend under $300.00. For just the head phones.
  
 Also if you can recommend an decent amp/dac for the headphones that would be great. I had been looking at the Fiio E17 and the Astro 2013 Mixamp. And like I said I am new to this world. So which ever is going to produce the best sound would be beneficial. I will also be needing a mic for any headphones that doesn't have a mic. I already have a sound card for my computer.
  
 Thanks all for helping me for my gaming immersion.


----------



## D126

Option 1: STX/ZXR + Modi Optical + Magni
 Option 2: 2 setups depending on Surround: USB Modi/Magni or Xonar DX + Amp
 Option 3: Xonar DX + Magni
 Option 3.1: STX/ZXR + Magni
  
 Questions which would help choose option:

 1. How is STX/ZXR DAC compared to Modi DAC?

 2. Let's say you use Optical Out into an External DAC (with an Optical In) to override the soundcard DAC. Does Optical Out degrade quality over the typical RCA Out? In other words is Optical or RCA better?
  
 Ty all!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

yethal said:


> If the DAC has optical input and the soundcard has optical output then yes, it is possible, that way you still get virtual surround but bypass the card's own internal dac




I am waiting for the Vali to come in the mail. I got advice from another headfi member that they worker well together and "tamed the highs". I was hoping it would. I was worried that I would hear a slight buzz with them. Same member said it was barely audible. In regards to Vali versus Magni I am not sure. I was really torn between both for which would be better with the K712. I could PM you more thoughts after I get it and use it a bit if you want


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Whoops! That meant to go out to D126 ha


----------



## D126

Option 1: STX/ZXR + Modi Optical + Magni
  
 Would this setup work for getting surround sound, Modi DAC, and Magni Amp?
  
 I am being told that Optical can't support more than 2 channels. Is this true? Is it possible they mean physical speakers? Or does Optical not support Dolby 5.1/7.1?


----------



## jaysins

As far as sound cards I would save your money and not worry about getting the best of the best. It's wasted money if you're already getting a great AMP/DAC to go along with it. My personal preference for gaming is the Creative Card and the Z or Zx are wonderful cards at better prices than the Zxr. Right now I go through USB when listening to music to avoid my sound card's DAC and it's as easy as right clicking the audio icon on my pc, choosing playback device and setting either the Creative or O2 as the primary device. With the money saved on the sound card either save it for a game or look into the best DAC/AMP that meets your budget. Or save it for you next big audio purchase as it's now inevitable


----------



## jaysins

d126 said:


> Option 1: STX/ZXR + Modi Optical + Magni
> 
> Would this setup work for getting surround sound, Modi DAC, and Magni Amp?
> 
> I am being told that Optical can't support more than 2 channels. Is this true? Is it possible they mean physical speakers? Or does Optical not support Dolby 5.1/7.1?


 
 That would work. Optical doesn't support uncompressed 5.1 which is fine.


----------



## D126

jaysins said:


> That would work. Optical doesn't support uncompressed 5.1 which is fine.


 
 Just to verify: STX Optical Out -> Optical Cable -> Modi External Optical In -> Modi External DAC RCA -> RCA Cable -> Magni Amp RCA -> Magni Headphone Jack (for Headphones)
  
 What is the difference between uncompressed 5.1 and Dolby Surround 5.1/7.1? Aren't they the same thing? Or are they completely different and uncompressed 5.1 is for physical speakers?
  
 Edit: The person says that I lose the ability to surround: "Also, you lose the surround once you get to the Modi Out... Since it's only L/R RCA." When he says surround, does he mean VSS? I don't see why L/R would be problem for VSS.


----------



## RXShadow

xander shade said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I am really new to the gaming headphone life. Being new and not knowing any better I originally went to Turtle Beach. But I just couldn't find a headphone that really struck my fancy. There was no way I was going to pay 300 dollars for a gaming headset that might break in 6 months. So I did a lot of research and a lot of reading. I eventually came across a site that swore by Sennheiser's. So I ventured into a realm of a true audiophile.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey there. I would say Welcome to Headfi, but I'm probably not the best person to say that. I'm not Mad Lust Envy, but I could give my opinion (which you should probably take it with a grain of salt)
  
 Sennheiser's PC and GAME series are very equivalent to the 558/598 and are more expensive. If you want to go for Sennheisers, I would suggest the 598 since your budget is $300.
  
 While the AD700 is great for its amazing soundstage, I would advice to go for something a little bit more "fun". Soundstage is great, but it's not everything, and certainly wouldn't suit you for non-competitive needs. I personally prefer even some fun on competitive, cause I do expect explosions and vehicle crashes to also sound amazing, but that's just me.
  
 There's alot of options you can go for. An AKG Q701 is probably a better option, it's soundstage is more than enough and has good enough bass for your needs. They will need to be amped though. There's a lot of other nice options for you to choose, an HD598 or maybe even a Soundmagic HP200. I would suggest reading the reviews and see what suits you better.
  
 For the mic, just get a modmic if you want something great, or a simple clip-on mic if you want something simple. I will let the other (more experienced people) help you on the DAC/AMP.
  
 But like I said, take my advice with a grain salt. I'm not probably the best person to take from.
  


d126 said:


> Option 1: STX/ZXR + Modi Optical + Magni
> *If you're going for Optical Modi, go for something cheaper such as the DG/Z. The soundcard will be MAINLY for VSS only, there's no point in overspending. Like commented above, it's still a great option and there's nothing wrong with it.*
> Option 2: 2 setups depending on Surround: USB Modi/Magni or Xonar DX + Amp
> *If you don't want VSS, first idea is a great option. If you do want VSS, your other options are better imo.*
> ...


 
  
 I've commented on each opinion, based on my opinions. Probably would advice to get someone's more experience backing just to make sure I didn't say anything stupid. There's nothing wrong with getting Opti Modi and connecting to the sound card to achieve VSS, or getting an amp to connect through RCA.


----------



## D126

I'm super confused by what someone is telling me.
  
 Can anyone confirm that the following setup is able to carry Dolby Virtual Headset Surround Sound (5.1/7.1) like any normal soundcard? 
  
 STX Optical Out -> Optical Cable -> Modi External Optical In -> Modi External DAC RCA -> RCA Cable -> Magni Amp RCA -> Magni Headphone Jack (for Headphones)
  
 I feel like this person telling me that it won't work due to Optical needing compression for 5.1 and RCA only being able to carry L/R is thinking I am talking about Physical Speaker Surround.


----------



## jaysins

Dolby, DTS etc are all compressed. It's not necessarily a bad thing though DTS and some other formats are of a little bit higher quality than Dolby. The STX DAC is pretty good but I did prefer the O2 for music as it was a bit more articulate and I enjoy the high and low end performance out of it. It's a pretty small difference but it was there. Is it worth the extra money? Only you can decide but I do think it would be redundant to get the best Sound Card for the DAC and purchase another DAC. The order you have listed with components is correct and would work.


----------



## D126

jaysins said:


> Dolby, DTS etc are all compressed. It's not necessarily a bad thing though DTS and some other formats are of a little bit higher quality than Dolby. The STX DAC is pretty good but I did prefer the O2 for music as it was a bit more articulate and I enjoy the high and low end performance out of it. It's a pretty small difference but it was there. Is it worth the extra money? Only you can decide but I do think it would be redundant to get the best Sound Card for the DAC and purchase another DAC. The order you have listed with components is correct and would work.


 
 Thanks for the confirmation. I currently have a Xonar DX. The microphone in and Optical Out are doubled in the same port. The main reason I'd upgrade to the STX/ZxR is for the seperate ports allowing me to use both Optical Out and microphone in. Would you just keep the DX and put the microphone on the front panel/onboard?
  
*SBX Pro Studio* would be compressed as well then, right? The Dolby Surround 7.1 I am using right now with my Xonar DX -> Headphone In is compressed as well, right? I'm not losing out on Headphone Surround by going to Optical?


----------



## Stillhart

d126 said:


> I'm super confused by what someone is telling me.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that the following setup is able to carry Dolby Virtual Headset Surround Sound (5.1/7.1) like any normal soundcard?
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry I'm late to this party.  Here's a few things you need to know:
  
 1 - Yes, you can use your sound card just to process virtual surround and then send it to a separate DAC and Amp.  It's what I do.
  
 2 - The Modi doesn't sound any different from the DAC in my Sound Blaster Omni.  It was a waste of money and I returned it.
  
 3 - If switched on, your sound card will process 5.1/7.1 into virtual surround and output it as stereo.  It will send this stereo signal via optical to the DAC, etc.  This means you CAN get virtual surround over optical.  Again, it's what I do.
  
 3b - Pro tip:  If you setup your music player to use WASPI exclusive mode, you can leave the surround processing on at all times and when you're listening to music, it'll just bypass it.
  
 4 - I did a lot of testing with USB vs Optical on my DAC/Amp and I couldn't hear the difference.  Maybe if you're using hi-rez audio and $1000+ headphones, you can hear the difference.  But in my price range, they sound exactly the same.
  
 I don't know anything about your Asus sound card so I can't comment on how well it will work with your intended setup.  I will say that unless the DAC is complete garbage (like onboard Realtek garbage), the Modi won't be worth the money.  I had to step up to the Audio-GD to hear an improvement in the DAC.


----------



## jaysins

Hey stillhart, I just purchased a NFB-11.32 from Audio-GD directly to test it out against my O2 DAC/AMP. I'll be selling one shortly. On my Xonar when going from the headphone out to the O2 I could notice a slight difference and a very low hiss on mine. I'm very excited to test out AMPs as I've never owned two at the same time and had the opportunity to A/B them.


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> Hey stillhart, I just purchased a NFB-11.32 from Audio-GD directly to test it out against my O2 DAC/AMP. I'll be selling one shortly. On my Xonar when going from the headphone out to the O2 I could notice a slight difference and a very low hiss on mine. I'm very excited to test out AMPs as I've never owned two at the same time and had the opportunity to A/B them.


 
 Oh cool!  I haven't heard of anyone doing that comparison yet so I'd be very curious to hear what you think.  If possible, try to separate out the comparisons (amp to amp with the same DAC, and DAC to DAC with the same Amp).  This will give you a much better idea of where the changes you're hearing (if any) are coming from.
  
 Wait, just reread your quote.  Are you using an O2 amp or an O2/ODAC?  Doesn't sound like you're using the ODAC.  If that's the case, you should notice a major improvement in SQ.


----------



## Godrazor

After researching and reading parts of this thread I'm almost positive I want to move on from my Sony Gold Headset to something more fancy.  I'm pondering getting the Akg Pro Audio K712PRO paired with Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition.  I mean if I'm going to upgrade from the Golds, I should upgrade big, right?  Still, this would be a sizable financial commitment, so I have a few questions: 
  
 1) Do I need some sort of extension cable to reach across the room? I plan on using this set up with a PS3 and PS4 that are separated from the couch by something like 15 feet.  Complete guesstimate.
  
 2) Do I need an adapter for jack size difference between the set and the amp? Will the two merge like sweet lovers, or do I have to get something to join them?
  
 3) Does the Astro Mixamp's 7.1 sound truly outshine the Gold's 7.1 VSS?  I'm hearing that the Gold's are like sounds around your head, while the Astor is like being submerged in the game's world.  Exaggeration?
  
 4) Is the Astro enough amp to warrant the K712PRO as a purchase?  I'm not getting another amp on top of the Astro, so if I'm spending so much for nothing I'd rather down grade.  Although, 3-D sound stage is the most important factor for me.
  
 5) Finally, would I need to constantly swap a wire between the PS3 and PS4?  Here is where the Sony Gold's just dominate in terms of convenience.


----------



## Yethal

godrazor said:


> After researching and reading parts of this thread I'm almost positive I want to move on from my Sony Gold Headset to something more fancy.  I'm pondering getting the Akg Pro Audio K712PRO paired with Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition.  I mean if I'm going to upgrade from the Golds, I should upgrade big, right?  Still, this would be a sizable financial commitment, so I have a few questions:
> 
> 1) Do I need some sort of extension cable to reach across the room? I plan on using this set up with a PS3 and PS4 that are separated from the couch by something like 15 feet.  Complete guesstimate.
> 
> ...


 
 1.) Mixamp ships with 5m (which is about 15ft) optical and ub cable so it is not a problem
  
 2) Nope, 712 pro has 3.5mm input so it'll work
  
 3) Sony headsets use their own virtual surround processing which is weaker than dolby headphones used by the mixamp
  
 4) AKG scale with power so You can play off the mixamp alone but another a p would help
  
 5) If Your TV has optical output then no, just plug the mixamp into the tv and setup both consoles to use hdmi for audio (enable dolby digital live 5.1 and disable dts 5.1)


----------



## Godrazor

yethal said:


> 5) If Your TV has optical output then no, just plug the mixamp into the tv and setup both consoles to use hdmi for audio (enable dolby digital live 5.1 and disable dts 5.1)


 
  






  I never thought of the TV out.  I'll need to check.  That would mean the 360 and Wii could be used as well.  Oh, happy figgin' day if this works out.  As for the 5.1, does the PS3 & PS4 use 7.1?  I'd like any and everything to default to that if possible.


----------



## Yethal

godrazor said:


> I never thought of the TV out.  I'll need to check.  That would mean the 360 and Wii could be used as well.  Oh, happy figgin' day if this works out.  As for the 5.1, does the PS3 & PS4 use 7.1?  I'd like any and everything to default to that if possible.


 
 Xbox 360 can be used as well but the Wii U won't work, it doesn't support dilby digital live audio standard used by the mixamp, it will only output stereo. Yes, both the PS3 and PS4 can output 7.1 sound but not in the format that the Mixamp uses. For mixamp set all Your consoles to output Dolby Digital Live


----------



## Godrazor

yethal said:


> Xbox 360 can be used as well but the Wii U won't work, it doesn't support dilby digital live audio standard used by the mixamp, it will only output stereo. Yes, both the PS3 and PS4 can output 7.1 sound but not in the format that the Mixamp uses. For mixamp set all Your consoles to output Dolby Digital Live


 
  
 Well, the Wii wasn't that important any how.  Interesting.  So, even at 5.1 setting the Mixamp will seem more 7.1 vs the Gold's 7.1 VSS, right?  I think I'll get the Astro Mixamp first, before I commit to the expensive headphones and let 7.1 shoot out commence.


----------



## Stillhart

godrazor said:


> Well, the Wii wasn't that important any how.  Interesting.  So, even at 5.1 setting the Mixamp will seem more 7.1 vs the Gold's 7.1 VSS, right?  I think I'll get the Astro Mixamp first, before I commit to the expensive headphones and let 7.1 shoot out commence.


 
 You realize 7.1 only offers any improvement to 5.1 in very large rooms, right?  Don't get hung up on the difference between the two.  You'll notice FAR more difference from using good headphones than you will from any nominal changes mixing in two more channels will bring.


----------



## AvroArrow

d126 said:


> I'm super confused by what someone is telling me.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that the following setup is able to carry Dolby Virtual Headset Surround Sound (5.1/7.1) like any normal soundcard?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Like others have mention, yes, this will give you Dolby Headphone over optical, but if you're going to use a Modi as you DAC and Magni/Vali as the amp, then there is no reason to blow money on a STX.  Just get the much cheaper Asus U3 or DGX as you are only using the soundcard for the virtual surround processing, both will do Dolby Headphone over Optical out.
  


stillhart said:


> 3b - Pro tip:  If you setup your music player to use WASPI exclusive mode, you can leave the surround processing on at all times and when you're listening to music, it'll just bypass it.


 
   
Be careful of this one.  Not all soundcards support WASAPI properly or they only work over certain output ports/jacks.  My X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) will freeze my Win7 box if I try to play music with a WASAPI driver over the SPDIF port (foobar2000 & MediaMonkey).  It will however work if I'm just using the standard headphone jack of the X-Fi (but the headphone jack is too weak for my AKG K702.65 and I don't want to double-amp).  Some other Creative cards will work with WASAPI over SPDIF but you will need to do your homework on which ones do and don't.


----------



## Stillhart

avroarrow said:


> Be careful of this one.  Not all soundcards support WASAPI properly or they only work over certain output ports/jacks.  My X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) will freeze my Win7 box if I try to play music with a WASAPI driver over the SPDIF port (foobar2000 & MediaMonkey).  It will however work if I'm just using the standard headphone jack of the X-Fi (but the headphone jack is too weak for my AKG K702.65 and I don't want to double-amp).  Some other Creative cards will work with WASAPI over SPDIF but you will need to do your homework on which ones do and don't.


 
  
 Interesting, I didn't know that.  Well for the record, it works fine with my Sound Blaster Omni, Win 7, Winamp/Foobar (both work), over SPDIF.


----------



## Yethal

avroarrow said:


> Like others have mention, yes, this will give you Dolby Headphone over optical, but if you're going to use a Modi as you DAC and Magni/Vali as the amp, then there is no reason to blow money on a STX.  Just get the much cheaper Asus U3 or DGX as you are only using the soundcard for the virtual surround processing, both will do Dolby Headphone over Optical out.
> 
> 
> Be careful of this one.  Not all soundcards support WASAPI properly or they only work over certain output ports/jacks.  My X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) will freeze my Win7 box if I try to play music with a WASAPI driver over the SPDIF port (foobar2000 & MediaMonkey).  It will however work if I'm just using the standard headphone jack of the X-Fi (but the headphone jack is too weak for my AKG K702.65 and I don't want to double-amp).  Some other Creative cards will work with WASAPI over SPDIF but you will need to do your homework on which ones do and don't.


 
 Interesting, When I set foobar to use WASAPI it runs fine over s/pdif even on realtek onboard


----------



## NamelessPFG

avroarrow said:


> Like others have mention, yes, this will give you Dolby Headphone over optical, but if you're going to use a Modi as you DAC and Magni/Vali as the amp, then there is no reason to blow money on a STX.  Just get the much cheaper Asus U3 or DGX as you are only using the soundcard for the virtual surround processing, both will do Dolby Headphone over Optical out.
> 
> 
> Be careful of this one.  Not all soundcards support WASAPI properly or they only work over certain output ports/jacks.  My X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) will freeze my Win7 box if I try to play music with a WASAPI driver over the SPDIF port (foobar2000 & MediaMonkey).  It will however work if I'm just using the standard headphone jack of the X-Fi (but the headphone jack is too weak for my AKG K702.65 and I don't want to double-amp).  Some other Creative cards will work with WASAPI over SPDIF but you will need to do your homework on which ones do and don't.



Hmmm, I should test how well the Titanium HD handles that.

I personally use ASIO in Audio Creation Mode with bit-matched playback, or more likely, a particular OpenAL plugin for Winamp so I can bypass the Windows audio stack without switching out of Game Mode. X-Fi mode switching is a crapshoot sometimes, so I prefer to avoid it.

Then again, I just don't like how WASAPI exclusive mode mutes everything else. The other two APIs don't do that.


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> Hmmm, I should test how well the Titanium HD handles that.
> 
> I personally use ASIO in Audio Creation Mode with bit-matched playback, or more likely, a particular OpenAL plugin for Winamp so I can bypass the Windows audio stack without switching out of Game Mode. X-Fi mode switching is a crapshoot sometimes, so I prefer to avoid it.
> 
> Then again, I just don't like how WASAPI exclusive mode mutes everything else. The other two APIs don't do that.


 
 Which Winamp plugin do you use?  I'm not a huge fan of the WASPI one I've been using, but I'd love a way to have the music bypass the processing.  Are you saying you can have your music playing with no processing WHILE other things are using the sound card with processing?


----------



## NamelessPFG

stillhart said:


> Which Winamp plugin do you use?  I'm not a huge fan of the WASPI one I've been using, but I'd love a way to have the music bypass the processing.  Are you saying you can have your music playing with no processing WHILE other things are using the sound card with processing?



I meant just bypassing the Windows audio stack and its imperfections while still being able to have a VoIP conversation with friends and whatnot.

This approach still wouldn't let me listen to a music player without CMSS-3D Headphone affecting it while playing a game, and in the OpenAL plugin case, I can't even run a game that uses hardware acceleration without sound conflicts between the two programs.

That sort of thing would probably require two separate audio devices, one dedicated to media players and NOT the default audio device, then a hardware mixer combines the two separate analog audio outputs into one before it hits your amp and headphones or speakers.


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> I meant just bypassing the Windows audio stack and its imperfections while still being able to have a VoIP conversation with friends and whatnot.
> 
> This approach still wouldn't let me listen to a music player without CMSS-3D Headphone affecting it while playing a game, and in the OpenAL plugin case, I can't even run a game that uses hardware acceleration without sound conflicts between the two programs.
> 
> That sort of thing would probably require two separate audio devices, one dedicated to media players and NOT the default audio device, then a hardware mixer combines the two separate analog audio outputs into one before it hits your amp and headphones or speakers.


 
 Translation:  stick with WASPI.  lol


----------



## AvroArrow

stillhart said:


> Interesting, I didn't know that.  Well for the record, it works fine with my Sound Blaster Omni, Win 7, Winamp/Foobar (both work), over SPDIF.


 
 Yup, I've read that WASAPI over SPDIF works on the SB Omni and it works on the USB X-Fi Surround 5.1 (non-Pro), just not on my X-Fi Titanium. 
  


yethal said:


> Interesting, When I set foobar to use WASAPI it runs fine over s/pdif even on realtek onboard


 
  
 WASAPI over SPDIF works perfectly fine on 3 different Realtek onboards that I have tried (ALC888, 889, 892).
  


namelesspfg said:


> Hmmm, I should test how well the Titanium HD handles that.
> 
> I personally use ASIO in Audio Creation Mode with bit-matched playback, or more likely, a particular OpenAL plugin for Winamp so I can bypass the Windows audio stack without switching out of Game Mode. X-Fi mode switching is a crapshoot sometimes, so I prefer to avoid it.
> 
> Then again, I just don't like how WASAPI exclusive mode mutes everything else. The other two APIs don't do that.


 
  
 I also tried the native Creative ASIO and ASIO4ALL drivers, as well as all 3 different modes (Game, Entertainment, Audio Creation) and ASIO or WASAPI over SPDIF will always freeze my Win7 rig.  Currently I'm running X-Fi Ti headphone jack> Fiio E09k> headphones for gaming and onboard Realtek SPDIF>AudioEngine D1> Asgard 2> headphones for music.  I don't like running 2 separate chains of gear with all that stuff on my desk but it's the only way for me to maximize the audio fidelity of the gear I have.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Duly noted.
> 
> Dragon's Crown aside, I'm kinda feeling in a Battlefield mood right now, but I really don't want to go pub-diving like I used to without any friends on voice chat backing me up.
> 
> I'm thinking of giving BF3 PC multiplayer a chance for once, but it sounds like everyone's already moved to BF4.




BF4 will probably satisfy you more. Plus, the Premium subscription has a Carrier Assault mode much like the Titan mode you loved in BF 2147, and a mode strictly for Air to Air battles.

I really am giving it a try, but it's still the same game, and still encourages the same... stuff I didn't like about the last one.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> BF4 will probably satisfy you more. Plus, the Premium subscription has a Carrier Assault mode much like the Titan mode you loved in BF 2147, and a mode strictly for Air to Air battles.
> 
> I really am giving it a try, but it's still the same game, and still encourages the same... stuff I didn't like about the last one.


 
 The incoming September patch is supposed to bring big changes to the multiplayer


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One thing people need to understand here: *MANY TELEVISIONS WILL NOT OUTPUT DOLBY DIGITAL THROUGH THEIR OPTICAL OUTPUT JACK*

99% of the time, you will NOT be able to get surround to your devices if they're hooked up to the TVs digital out. The only time you will is through the TV tuner and possibly, it's apps.

Now, not ALL tvs abide by this, and some do pass Dolby Digital from other devices. Just do NOT gamble on this.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Xbox 360 can be used as well but the Wii U won't work, it doesn't support dilby digital live audio standard used by the mixamp, it will only output stereo. Yes, both the PS3 and PS4 can output 7.1 sound but not in the format that the Mixamp uses. For mixamp set all Your consoles to output Dolby Digital Live


 
  
 The Wii U's problem is that it has no S/PDIF output. It's either HDMI audio with LPCM 7.1 or RCA with optional Dolby Pro Logic II encoding (that the Mixamp can decode into 5.1 on its RCA inputs for Dolby Headphone to work with), as I understand it.
  
 What we really need is a Mixamp sort of device with HDMI input and video passthrough so we don't have to put up with the bulk of a whole A/V receiver just for Dolby Headphone mixing and still find ourselves devoid of voice chat mixing. Might not matter so much for the other consoles, but I know there will be a Wii U in my future after what they showed off at E3 2014.
  
 Right now, the ONLY such device I know of is the Smyth Realiser A8, and that actually lacks S/PDIF and Dolby/DTS decoding in addition to being cost-prohibitive for the vast majority of users and still lacking voice chat mixing.


----------



## D126

avroarrow said:


> Like others have mention, yes, this will give you Dolby Headphone over optical, but if you're going to use a Modi as you DAC and Magni/Vali as the amp, then there is no reason to blow money on a STX.  Just get the much cheaper Asus U3 or DGX as you are only using the soundcard for the virtual surround processing, both will do Dolby Headphone over Optical out.
> 
> 
> Be careful of this one.  Not all soundcards support WASAPI properly or they only work over certain output ports/jacks.  My X-Fi Titanium (non-HD) will freeze my Win7 box if I try to play music with a WASAPI driver over the SPDIF port (foobar2000 & MediaMonkey).  It will however work if I'm just using the standard headphone jack of the X-Fi (but the headphone jack is too weak for my AKG K702.65 and I don't want to double-amp).  Some other Creative cards will work with WASAPI over SPDIF but you will need to do your homework on which ones do and don't.


 
 I already have a Xonar DX. I find it truly annoying that the Optical Out and Mic In share the same port - otherwise I'd be good to go...


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> One thing people need to understand here: *MANY TELEVISIONS WILL NOT OUTPUT DOLBY DIGITAL THROUGH THEIR OPTICAL OUTPUT JACK*
> 
> 99% of the time, you will NOT be able to get surround to your devices if they're hooked up to the TVs digital out. The only time you will is through the TV tuner and possibly, it's apps.
> 
> Now, not ALL tvs abide by this, and some do pass Dolby Digital from other devices. Just do NOT gamble on this.


 
 Is there a way to test this aside from unplugging everything and plugging it into the tv?
   
 Quote:


namelesspfg said:


> The Wii U's problem is that it has no S/PDIF output. It's either HDMI audio with LPCM 7.1 or RCA with optional Dolby Pro Logic II encoding (that the Mixamp can decode into 5.1 on its RCA inputs for Dolby Headphone to work with), as I understand it.
> 
> What we really need is a Mixamp sort of device with HDMI input and video passthrough so we don't have to put up with the bulk of a whole A/V receiver just for Dolby Headphone mixing and still find ourselves devoid of voice chat mixing. Might not matter so much for the other consoles, but I know there will be a Wii U in my future after what they showed off at E3 2014.
> 
> Right now, the ONLY such device I know of is the Smyth Realiser A8, and that actually lacks S/PDIF and Dolby/DTS decoding in addition to being cost-prohibitive for the vast majority of users and still lacking voice chat mixing.


 
 There is also a whole line of marantz receivers. Which are enormous in size, have bazillion functions headphone gamers do not need and are also expensive. As far as I remember there was a petition for Fiio to make such a product. I don't know how it ended though


d126 said:


> I already have a Xonar DX. I find it truly annoying that the Optical Out and Mic In share the same port - otherwise I'd be good to go...


 
 Try plugging 4 - pole splitter into the headphone jack, I've seen some laptops that had s/pdif inside mic jack and hybrid jack for headphones


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Find a game that you can test for virtual surround easily. with your Mixamp-esque device Do a few rotations or find some source of sound that you can spin around and hear coming from around you. The difference between Dolby Digital being passed through and it being just downscaled to 2 channel PCM is night and day.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> BF4 will probably satisfy you more. Plus, the Premium subscription has a Carrier Assault mode much like the Titan mode you loved in BF 2147, and a mode strictly for Air to Air battles.
> 
> I really am giving it a try, but it's still the same game, and still encourages the same... stuff I didn't like about the last one.


 

 You need a good gun Evshrug..Ace 23 playing has medic is a good one to start with put a angled grip and laser with a red dot sight on and give yourself health and you should do quite good in a round!


----------



## Yethal

Well, Kojima's PT is out might test with that. I tried it out at night and the positional cues were great.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> The incoming September patch is supposed to bring big changes to the multiplayer.




Yeah, that patch is called Destiny and it'll be much more fun and sociable/friendly.
My biggest gripe is the player base... Was playing hardcore mode (because not only are all other FPS games "inferior," but also all other game modes within BF4 itself XD ), and for the first time in three days of playing I got to sit in the gunner seat of an attack chopper (the two seater). Pilot starts flying out, quarter of the way in he hits something and starts flying back towards base. We land, and like a good little engineer I pop out for a second and repair, pop back in but we're just sitting on the ground, waiting... Then a teammate (I assume in his squad) snipes me out from the gunner seat so he can take it. They both die anyway somewhere in the time it takes me to respawn.
BF is most fun when I'm playing with one or two buddies (too much chatter in a full squad) and I'm messing around with sniping, vehicles, and physics, not so much fun when I'm trying to win. I really don't care if others enjoy it... Good for you, enjoy it, but I'm not hooked.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> You need a good gun Evshrug..Ace 23 playing has medic is a good one to start with put a angled grip and laser with a red dot sight on and give yourself health and you should do quite good in a round!



Thanks for the tip. I haven't unlocked the Ace 23 yet, but often I go positive using the DMR's, so long as I play careful.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yeah, that patch is called Destiny and it'll be much more fun and sociable/friendly.
> My biggest gripe is the player base... Was playing hardcore mode (because not only are all other FPS games "inferior," but also all other game modes within BF4 itself XD ), and for the first time in three days of playing I got to sit in the gunner seat of an attack chopper (the two seater). Pilot starts flying out, quarter of the way in he hits something and starts flying back towards base. We land, and like a good little engineer I pop out for a second and repair, pop back in but we're just sitting on the ground, waiting... Then a teammate (I assume in his squad) snipes me out from the gunner seat so he can take it. They both die anyway somewhere in the time it takes me to respawn.
> BF is most fun when I'm playing with one or two buddies (too much chatter in a full squad) and I'm messing around with sniping, vehicles, and physics, not so much fun when I'm trying to win. I really don't care if others enjoy it... Good for you, enjoy it, but I'm not hooked.


 
 Teamkilling is one of the reasons I don't play hardcore. People just think it's core mode with less gui and health and keep throwing these damn nades everywhere and shooting each other
  
 BF4 can be fun when trying to win but in 32 player team one there is only so much one 5 player squad can do
  
 After first alpha and beta (courtesy of Change is Good) I am pretty sure Destiny will win Multiplayer Game of the Year


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> One thing people need to understand here: *MANY TELEVISIONS WILL NOT OUTPUT DOLBY DIGITAL THROUGH THEIR OPTICAL OUTPUT JACK*
> 
> 99% of the time, you will NOT be able to get surround to your devices if they're hooked up to the TVs digital out. The only time you will is through the TV tuner and possibly, it's apps.
> 
> Now, not ALL tvs abide by this, and some do pass Dolby Digital from other devices. Just do NOT gamble on this.




There is a list somewhere online for 5.1 pass thru optical. I know all Sony tvs do it and I belive Vizio does also. Last I checked Samsung does not.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> There is also a whole line of marantz receivers. Which are enormous in size, have bazillion functions headphone gamers do not need and are also expensive. As far as I remember there was a petition for Fiio to make such a product. I don't know how it ended though


 
  
 There are also the old Harmon Kardon AVR's.  Mine actually does DH, but first I went with the recon because it's got THX.  Then I realized that it didn't get loud enough to effectively do chat/game balance, also I hated the wire across the floor.  
  
 I tried the AVR and it worked well enough if you turned the in-game volume way down and then cranked the receiver volume.  That had a couple problems too:  1 the wire across the floor again and 2 swapping back to normal speakers left my volume WAY TOO HIGH.
  
 After that I went with the Mixamp 5.8 and it does pretty much everything I need.  A little extra amping from the E11 and I'm golden.  It's a shame that they stopped making these.
  
 Re the Fiio, Chicolom has a link to the petition in his sig.  Fiio straight up stated that they had no plans to do this anytime soon.


evshrug said:


> *Yeah, that patch is called Destiny and it'll be much more fun and sociable/friendly.*
> My biggest gripe is the player base... Was playing hardcore mode (because not only are all other FPS games "inferior," but also all other game modes within BF4 itself XD ), and for the first time in three days of playing I got to sit in the gunner seat of an attack chopper (the two seater). Pilot starts flying out, quarter of the way in he hits something and starts flying back towards base. We land, and like a good little engineer I pop out for a second and repair, pop back in but we're just sitting on the ground, waiting... Then a teammate (I assume in his squad) snipes me out from the gunner seat so he can take it. They both die anyway somewhere in the time it takes me to respawn.
> BF is most fun when I'm playing with one or two buddies (too much chatter in a full squad) and I'm messing around with sniping, vehicles, and physics, not so much fun when I'm trying to win. I really don't care if others enjoy it... Good for you, enjoy it, but I'm not hooked.


 
  
 This made me lol.


----------



## Yethal

The Fiio


stillhart said:


> There are also the old Harmon Kardon AVR's.  Mine actually does DH, but first I went with the recon because it's got THX.  Then I realized that it didn't get loud enough to effectively do chat/game balance, also I hated the wire across the floor.
> 
> I


 
 Fiio has this wireless trasmitter that could help with the wires on the floor it's called W1


----------



## NamelessPFG

martin vegas said:


> You need a good gun Evshrug..Ace 23 playing has medic is a good one to start with put a angled grip and laser with a red dot sight on and give yourself health and you should do quite good in a round!


 
  
 See, this is what I hated about BF2142 onward: you're expected to unlock all the decent stuff or die trying.
  
 It was especially irritating in Bad Company 2 when everyone else had the M60 + Magnum Ammo and I didn't yet, well before the M60 got nerfed hard. Basically, two hits from that and you're dead, made doubly worse by BC2's wonky hit detection.
  
 EA even saw a monetization opportunity here and started selling hideously expensive unlock shortcut "DLC" for those of us who don't have time to get repeatedly thrown into the meat grinder.
  
 While I do like class and weapon customization of the sort the later Battlefield games offer, I prefer the days when that wasn't hidden behind some RPG grindfest and everyone had everything available to them at once. Evens the playing field because the players are no longer divided between the haves and the have-nots.
  
 As for BF4, I still don't feel like paying $50-56 for the game + Premium, and let's be honest, there's no point now in buying BF3 or BF4 without Premium. I've still got a week's worth of Game Time waiting to start; might do so near the holiday season when the sales really get going.
  
 Also, I still don't like playing with just random pubbies everywhere. I need actual friends with VoIP backing me up. But everyone I run into either seems to not care for BF3, absolutely despises Origin, or isn't playing on PC.


----------



## Yethal

Well, people despising Origin isn't surprising at all


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> See, this is what I hated about BF2142 onward: you're expected to unlock all the decent stuff or die trying.
> 
> It was especially irritating in Bad Company 2 when everyone else had the M60 + Magnum Ammo and I didn't yet, well before the M60 got nerfed hard. Basically, two hits from that and you're dead, made doubly worse by BC2's wonky hit detection.
> 
> ...


 
 This pretty much nails my issue with BF4 right now.  You pay full price for a game and almost ALL the content is locked behind 1 - "random" loot boxes or 2 - MEGA GRINDING.  
  
 And I'm sorry, but calling BF4's monetization strategy "RPG grindfest" is doing a disservice to RPG's. No, this is mobile app levels of grinding.  It's structured so that you'd have to play for MONTHS to unlock a majority of the content... of you can just pay them money.  
  
 This is absurd for a game that you have to pay to own in the first place.  I get it for a F2P game.  But you get 5 hours of campaign and 6 guns for your $60 ($30 on sale, whatever).  If you want the other 54 guns, have fun grinding for the next year.  And don't get me started on unlocking all the mods ONE gun at a time. 
  
 Sorry, I get worked up on this level of consumer hostile monetization.  The Origin thing is all part of the same issue and there are great reasons to despise it.
  
 /deep breath
  
 On topic, I used my HP100's with BF a bit yesterday.  It was my first time using them for gaming.  I gotta say, they worked really well.  No they don't have the monster soundstage of the Q701, but I had no issues picking up directional cues.  And the really balanced sound was a great middle ground between the "fun" of an X1 and the "competitive" of the Q701.  I give it my thumbs up for gaming!
  
 I pulled out my backup $30 Sony headphones at work today because I forgot my HP100 at home.  Bleh!  Uncomfortable, boomy bloated bass, lack of extension in both the highs and the lows.  I'll be bringing my HP100's back to work on Monday for sure!


----------



## Yethal

You guys are blowing the grind thing out of proportion, that's what 64 player domination servers are for, to unlock the guns, and with xp boosts drop rates being 100% it's not that big of a deal


----------



## Change is Good

L....O....L....


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> You guys are blowing the grind thing out of proportion, that's what 64 player domination servers are for, to unlock the guns, and with xp boosts drop rates being 100% it's not that big of a deal


 

 This is a good gun and it's the first gun you get for the support class (make sure you take all the crap attachments off before you use the gun or you won't be able to hit sh!t) put a angled grip on it and tap fire, you will rule from a distance p.s if you are new to bf4 give hardcore a miss for a while!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> This is a good gun and it's the first gun you get for the support class (make sure you take all the crap attachments off before you use the gun or you won't be able to hit sh!t) put a angled grip on it and tap fire, you will rule from a distance p.s if you are new to bf4 give hardcore a miss for a while!




 I know right. The AK-12 is useful too, nice mid to long range accuracy, first sniper rifle is good too
  
 Also, played the P.T and the audio cues in this game are fenomenal. Scary as schiit but fenomenal


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's one thing I like abour CoD. Most guns are viable. Yes, there are your OP guns every game, but that is only a partial crutch. You can easily dominate with the first few choices. Every CoD has differemt ways of unlocking items, but I think my fave was BLOPS1 which you had to unlock via levels and in game currency. Made gambling your money important all the way until you maxed out on levels and unlocked everything.

High Roller Gun Game. No one wanted to play me, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

L....O....L....


----------



## Siegfried262

Awesome guide, I've been enjoying my HD 598s very much.


----------



## Yethal

Hmm, guys just in case I'll ever have some money to spend what headphones would You recommend with 598's soundstage and positional cues but with more bass? even with foobar's equalizer I can't make them bassy enough. Comfort is an important factor of course, and detachable cable if that's possible


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mad lust envy said:


> That's one thing I like abour CoD. Most guns are viable. Yes, there are your OP guns every game, but that is only a partial crutch. You can easily dominate with the first few choices. Every CoD has differemt ways of unlocking items, but I think my fave was BLOPS1 which you had to unlock via levels and in game currency. Made gambling your money important all the way until you maxed out on levels and unlocked everything.
> 
> High Roller Gun Game. No one wanted to play me, lol.




Amen to this.... Loved gun game!! I still got the most enjoyment dropping nukes on Mod 2. I feel like it had the best balance besides Cod 4


----------



## Evshrug

bunnynamedfrank said:


> Amen to this.... Loved gun game!! I still got the most enjoyment dropping nukes on Mod 2. I feel like it had the best balance besides Cod 4



Gun game is still around, frenetic fun. Do you mean CoD BLOPS2? I really got addicted to Sticks and Stones mode in CoD:BO1 when I borrowed it, most fun gambling mechanic plus it was cool to get slow projectile kills, felt Bad *****!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

evshrug said:


> Gun game is still around, frenetic fun. Do you mean CoD BLOPS2? I really got addicted to Sticks and Stones mode in CoD:BO1 when I borrowed it, most fun gambling mechanic plus it was cool to get slow projectile kills, felt Bad *****!




No I meant just the regular gameplay of call of duty 4 was done well. I Still think that mod 2 had the best balance....Sticks and stones is excellent too on black ops! I actually played the fun games more then regular deathmatch. It was so addicting


----------



## Evshrug

What is Mod2?????


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> What is Mod2?????


 
 I'm guessing modern warfare 2


----------



## Evshrug

I guess. I just thought MW2 was pretty universal, but I bet Bunny would've explained next time we met up.

Speaking of, BunnyNamedFrank (BNF?),
Did you decide on an amp for your K712? What have you been playing lately?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

evshrug said:


> I guess. I just thought MW2 was pretty universal, but I bet Bunny would've explained next time we met up.
> 
> Speaking of, BunnyNamedFrank (BNF?),
> Did you decide on an amp for your K712? What have you been playing lately?




Yeah Modern warfare 2 you silly gooses! And I JUST got the Vali today actually. Still waiting for my chords from monoprice to come so I can actually use. I can't wait to daisy chain it to the mix amp.... Games I have just been playing borderlands 2 and Payday 2 when my buddy wants to play it. I am thinking about getting BF3 tonight if the price is right. I am tired of COD and liked playing that for the short time I had with it. Was really turned off about EA making you buy the online pass so that's why I boycotted it. Now that the multiplayer is free for used copies I am picking it up. Seemed like the census didnt like the 4th one?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, people just hated BF4 because it was a buggy mess at first. They released a Beta essentially as a full game.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, people just hated BF4 because it was a buggy mess at first. They released a Beta essentially as a full game.


 
  
 Buggy, yeah, but a mess... nah. People really tend to overstate things on the internet lol.
  
 I expected the bugs, since EA always forces the issue and rushes DICE and other developers to release their games before being polished on consoles. It's expected with companies as such. We all know what happened with Bethesda and their games on the PS3...
  
 I'm actually surprised Hardline was pushed back, to be honest. Props to EA for giving Visceral extra time to make it right before release...


----------



## empty001

hello guys. just joining this forum coz i liked this thread.
  
 i have some question about PS4 gaming headphone. I can not seems to buy astro mixamp because they're too pricey for me. And i dont have any DAC/AMP yet.
  
 If im using headphone directly to PS4 controller, can i get great sound?
  
 or what headphone nice for me?
  
 NB:
 - I love Single PLayer games (horror,action,RPG,etc)
 - i dont need Mic yet ^^
 - i dont need surround too (for now)
  
 thx guys


----------



## Yethal

empty001 said:


> hello guys. just joining this forum coz i liked this thread.
> 
> i have some question about PS4 gaming headphone. I can not seems to buy astro mixamp because they're too pricey for me. And i dont have any DAC/AMP yet.
> 
> ...


 
 Sound coming from PS4 controller might be sufficient for You, although plugging headset into it drains battery life. What's Your budget?


----------



## benbenkr

All these BF4 vs COD talk... sigh. This is why Destiny was such a good change when most weapons and classes are fairly balanced, at least from the beta perspective.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, people just hated BF4 because it was a buggy mess at first. They released a Beta essentially as a full game.


 
 Honestly?  It's still a buggy mess.  I've had to force close and restart it several times.  How long has it been out already?  How many expansions?  It's pretty unconscionable if you ask me.
  
 But I knew what I was getting into when I bought it.  I just think it's really weird because I can't remember the last time a console game crashed on me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, actually, even Ghosts was crashing on me the other day.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Honestly?  It's still a buggy mess.  I've had to force close and restart it several times.  How long has it been out already?  How many expansions?  It's pretty unconscionable if you ask me.
> 
> But I knew what I was getting into when I bought it.  I just think it's really weird because I can't remember the last time a console game crashed on me.




Odd. I get no crashes, at all, maybe once in a blue moon.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, but bf4 has crashed or frozen after a match at least once or twice on me every gaming session so far. 
Usually just a frozen black screen when exiting a match or trying to quit a server. Been easy to fix though, just close the application and try again. I have been playing BF4 lately to give it a chance, I hope to get the most pistol kills on my friend's list  I also countered three melee kills last time I played because I heard something with my surround and turned... Felt awesome, hahah.
I also agree that it's cool EA extended development timeframe, wasn't Visceral a studio that tries to do new cool things for sequels and in the past been too rushed to clean moderate bugs? What are some of Visceral's past games, I forget?

I just moved my PS4 back into my computer room, holy crap I forgot how much I missed sitting in a proper chair while gaming! The monitor is really nice too, I get to hook up my tube amp again (which ROCKS!), and a whole bunch of nice things. Last time I played with Still though, I couldn't get InGame Chat working for some reason. I prefer that because I'd feel silly using the Mixamp 5.8 wireless at that short a range and InGame-chat is the only way I can get chat audio with only a mic plugged into the controller...

Maybe I'd be better off just getting a USB mic. Snowball, Samson, any other suggestions or tips from PS users experienced with using a standalone USB mic?


----------



## Change is Good

Digital copy? I had this issue when I had the $10 "digital upgrade" from PS3. Could never get into a match, actually. Had to beg wal-mart to exchange my ps3 copy for a ps4 version. Lost out on $10, but was better than having to re-buy the whole damn game. Once I got the hard copy, crashing has been minimal ever since.

The latest Visceral games from EA that I can remember off the top of my head are the last two Dead Space games.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Hmm, actually, even Ghosts was crashing on me the other day.




It gets a pass because it's the well beloved Call of Duty.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> All these BF4 vs COD talk... sigh. This is why Destiny was such a good change when most weapons and classes are fairly balanced, at least from the beta perspective.




Yeah, sometimes the Interceptor vehicle dominated on the moon map, but a Super or flanking it and shooting out the driver would work well, and Bungie already said they changed the balance on that. I freaking LOVED the destiny beta, having powers (grenades, charged melee, supers) really mixes up combat and the movement (jump modifiers, some rushing melee's) gives the kind of freedom I miss in more traditional games. I often forget I have grenades in CoD and BF, and non-sneaky melees are hard to pull off in those games. Plus, bringing in your own discovered variants of guns is preeeetty cool... I found this Marshall assault rifle that had a high fire rate, larger clip size, and good stability, which totally enabled me to wreck ship in the Iron Banner event on the last day, taking on multiple people at once when balanced right with the other abilities. I really don't think that Marshall was OP, it just seemed custom-fit for me.

I'm really, really stoked for the Destiny release, I think this may be only the 2nd time I've opted for faster shipping ever so that I can (hopefully) play on Day 1 with the limited edition's extra goodies.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Digital copy? I had this issue when I had the $10 "digital upgrade" from PS3. Could never get into a match, actually. Had to beg wal-mart to exchange my ps3 copy for a ps4 version. Lost out on $10, but was better than having to re-buy the whole damn game. Once I got the hard copy, crashing has been minimal ever since.
> 
> The latest Visceral games from EA that I can remember off the top of my head are the last two Dead Space games.




Oh yeeeeeah! I loved Dead Space 2, haven't played the 3rd. I think I was thinking of Obsidian entertainment.
I do have a digital copy, so does Stillhart. I'd like to know how Mad downloads his games, for me it's like a fraction of our 20-30 Mbps FiOS and *start download, look at 7kbps download speed* "Whelp, see you tomorrow!"


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I'm really, really stoked for the Destiny release, I think this may be only the 2nd time I've opted for faster shipping ever so that I can (hopefully) play on Day 1 with the limited edition's extra goodies.


 
  
  

  
  


evshrug said:


> Oh yeeeeeah! I loved Dead Space 2, haven't played the 3rd. I think I was thinking of Obsidian entertainment.
> I do have a digital copy, so does Stillhart. I'd like to know how Mad downloads his games, for me it's like a fraction of our 20-30 Mbps FiOS and *start download* Whelp, see you tomorrow!


 
  
 Yesssirrr...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well beloved CoD, lol. That's a stretch. CoD gets the most hate of pretty much any single FPS series.


----------



## Evshrug

Pretty much, yep! And the latest one is always said to "suck" compared to the previous release. I'm surprised Halo didn't get more hate for being popular, at least until Halo 3 and the spawning of the "gaylo" slur, IMO that only started because CoD4 finally provided a competitive option for console gaming. Meh, I can relate to not wanting to be considered "part of the crowd," but some people turn that into hating anything popular. *shrug* I have my preferences and frustrations, but I can't think of any game right now that I flat-out hate, I just gravitate towards games I find more fun.


----------



## Change is Good

I was being sarcastic when I made that CoD statement. We all know there is not one FPS that is actually "well-beloved" by the gaming community, as a whole.

Destiny will be, but I wouldn't really say it is a FPS. The RPG aspect makes it a completely different beast.


----------



## Evshrug

^ it might be for a month, but there will be backlash from hipsters. I don't think my roommate will care for it, for example, just because he thinks Bungie just makes "generic shooters" just like Infinity Ward, Treyarch, DICE, etc. I barely got him to beat the first Halo (we were playing Co-op and I refused to leave his house till he beat the last level, LOL!), and I really think he could get into the storytelling in Halo 2, ODST, and 4, but I dunno if he ever will because (he won't admit this) our group used to play Halo and Halo 2 at parties and he would lose unless we let him win/play rockets only. In his mind Destiny will be "just another Halo/military shooter clone."


----------



## AxelCloris

The GAMDIAS EROS v2 has arrived. Having worn them for all of 2 minutes (no audio yet) I feel almost positive that these were designed in a rendering program while targeting a specific price point without doing any kind of focus group testing. It seems to have a pretty weak build and the comfort leaves a fair deal to be desired. You'll also notice that both the brand and their products' names are written using caps lock. For a headset that's undergone a revision there seems to be a lot of important details overlooked or simply ignored in order to keep the headset in a given price range.
  
 Later we'll see how they sound. Maybe I can get some game time in with the folks this evening to see how they play.


----------



## Change is Good

^When are you supposed to be receiving the HP200?


----------



## NamelessPFG

change is good said:


> I was being sarcastic when I made that CoD statement. We all know there is not one FPS that is actually "well-beloved" by the gaming community, as a whole.
> 
> Destiny will be, but I wouldn't really say it is a FPS. The RPG aspect makes it a completely different beast.


 
  
 Destiny ISN'T beloved by gamers as a whole, just because of this.
  
 Though even if Jason Jones didn't verbally shoot himself in the foot and collectively piss off the PC gaming community, and even if it actually did have a PC version released alongside all the console versions, you'd probably still have a few snobs and elitists that don't like the game anyway, not to mention those who just aren't into that genre of gaming.
  
 You can't expect to please everyone, but hey, people just like what they like. Best not to get too worked up over people not liking what you like and just find those who do happen to like what you like.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Destiny ISN'T beloved by gamers as a whole, just because of this.




Meh, saying that the main landscape has changed isn't going to offend people who aren't diehard PC players, for people that dabble in all platforms (like me) I might disagree with him but not hate Destiny and Bungie as a whole for that... No where near as intrusive and alienating as Microsoft's' changing stances about online-only consoles and the flip-flopping about Kinect, or EA's rushed development and multiplayer codes. Saying that mouse/keyboard isn't the future is a thing that some people will disagree with but a lot of gamers will agree with.

I expect some backlash, but the game is already fundamentally/conceptually solid (and I found the alpha/beta fun) and it will sell a LOT of copies.


----------



## jaysins

What they need to do is allow for keyboard and mouse on consoles and just match those with the same type of setup with one another. I prefer it for FPS but can live with a controller though RTS is just frustrating in my experience. I'll go where my friends go as that's more important than my input method, with RTS being the exception. On a side note, has anyone here heard the HD 800's or know of a place in or around Orlando where you can audition high end headphones? I don't know of one and it's a headphone I am just dying to try. On another side not, I get my Audio-gd 11.32 tomorrow .


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

In regards to all the COD/battlefield 4 talk my tag for 360 is blitzcraig1984. I realized early in BF4 that teammates who talk are a necessity in this game. If anyone still owns the game for 360 (probably not) And wants to play I would love a teammate


----------



## conquerator2

Allowing mice and keyboard for consoles is the worst thing you could do...
With controllers, everybody is leveled but when somebody uses a keyboard, fair game it is not.
Using keyboard to chat? Sure. In games? Please no....


----------



## madmalkav

BoomPro vs Custom Headset Gear vs Modmic , which one will be better at recording only your voice? I'm always looking for ways on improving that because me and my wife have our gaming PCs in the same room.


----------



## jaysins

conquerator2 said:


> Allowing mice and keyboard for consoles is the worst thing you could do...
> With controllers, everybody is leveled but when somebody uses a keyboard, fair game it is not.
> Using keyboard to chat? Sure. In games? Please no....




I mentioned it would have to pair like input methods as that would create an obvious advantage.


----------



## Yethal

madmalkav said:


> BoomPro vs Custom Headset Gear vs Modmic , which one will be better at recording only your voice? I'm always looking for ways on improving that because me and my wife have our gaming PCs in the same room.


 
 If You have a pair of headphones with detachable minijack cable go for boom pro or CHG, Modmic makes Your cable clutter worse. Although the sound quality is awesome


conquerator2 said:


> Allowing mice and keyboard for consoles is the worst thing you could do...
> With controllers, everybody is leveled but when somebody uses a keyboard, fair game it is not.
> Using keyboard to chat? Sure. In games? Please no....


 
 Afair console version of Unreal Tournament and Dusk 514 supported keyboard and mouse.


----------



## madmalkav

yethal said:


> If You have a pair of headphones with detachable minijack cable go for boom pro or CHG, Modmic makes Your cable clutter worse. Although the sound quality is awesome
> Afair console version of Unreal Tournament and Dusk 514 supported keyboard and mouse.


 
 Yeah, they are my prefered option , but if they are omni mics and they will register the other speaker as much as our current mics, I will just pass.


----------



## Yethal

madmalkav said:


> Yeah, they are my prefered option , but if they are omni mics and they will register the other speaker as much as our current mics, I will just pass.


 
 Not likely to happen. Although keep in mind that all three options are prety pricey.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Destiny actually gets a LOT of hates on forums for being a glorified Halo with Borderlands system. I've seen it mentioned so much. To be fair, gameplay is exactly like Halo, but in a new loot based system. Bungie could've turned this into a Halo spinoff in the Halo universe, and no one would've batted an eyelash. The core Halo gameplay is there. Not that it's a bad thing. I prefer the Destiny Beta over all the other Halo games. I think the loot based exploration works for the big maps that Halo is known to have. Halo campaigns don't really do it for me, though the gameplay was always solid. 

I have a thing for loot based action games. I'm anticipating getting Diablo III for PS4 once I have nothing to do. I sunk in 40+ hours on Dragon's Crown in a few weeks, because it was a fun loot based action game.

I would've liked Borderlands too, but the game is very punishing if you try to play alone, and when you DO play with others, they tend to be overpowered and carry you through all the missions. If I can't play the game alone well enough, I don't wanna play it. I don't trust randoms, and my schedule doesn't permit me to play with friends all that often.

If Castlevania: Harmony of Despair made it on the PS4... goodbye world. I would sink 300+ hours without issues.


Anyways, If it's popular, people are gonna find reasons to hate it. That's just how hipster bandwagons are.


----------



## jaysins

I love the castlevania series. Such an amazing loot system where you can stumble upon new and powerful combinations of items. As they say lust, haters gonna hate.


----------



## conquerator2

I am getting ridiculous amounts of static [or what I think is static - kinda buzzy noise] via the Recon3D...
In comparison, the TB DSP station gives me very slight noise only, almost inaudible.
Any ideas?
  
 EDIT: Fixed. Using a direct PS4 connection fixed it.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> I am getting ridiculous amounts of static [or what I think is static - kinda buzzy noise] via the Recon3D...
> In comparison, the TB DSP station gives me very slight noise only, almost inaudible.
> Any ideas?
> 
> EDIT: Fixed. Using a direct PS4 connection fixed it.


 
 My Recon doesn't seem to like standby mode on the PS4.  I have to unplug the Recon to reset it every few days.  When it's acting up sometimes people hear me as static, sometimes other people sound like static, etc.  tl;dr - just try resetting it next time?


----------



## djodars

I have a pair of Sennheiser's HD 555 modded to 595 (removed the foam pads).
  
 I'm playing CS:GO on PC and I'm using onboard audio (Realtek ALC1150).
  
 Here are the specs to my headphones:
 Frequency response: 15 – 28,000 Hz
 Impedance: 50 Ω
 SPL(1 kHz, 1 Vrms): 112 dB
 THD: < 0.2 %
  
 Should I upgrade headphones, buy a soundcard, buy a DAC/AMP (i.e.: Schiit Magni/Modi) or stick with what I have?


----------



## Stillhart

djodars said:


> I have a pair of Sennheiser's HD 555 modded to 595 (removed the foam pads).
> 
> I'm playing CS:GO on PC and I'm using onboard audio (Realtek ALC1150).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Buy a sound card.


----------



## djodars

stillhart said:


> Buy a sound card.


 
 Care the explain the reasoning behind buying a sound card? All I heard and read here on the forums is that they are pointless aside from the softwares they offer (virtual surround for example, which I won't use) and that I should get DAC/AMP instead because of the huge difference in quality.
  
 If you're still saying I should buy a sound card, do you have any recommendations? Should I go with the cheapest possible (Xonar DG) or with something a little more expensive (Soundblaster Z/Zx) and why?


----------



## Stillhart

djodars said:


> Care the explain the reasoning behind buying a sound card? All I heard and read here on the forums is that they are pointless aside from the softwares they offer (virtual surround for example, which I won't use) and that I should get DAC/AMP instead because of the huge difference in quality.
> 
> If you're still saying I should buy a sound card, do you have any recommendations? Should I go with the cheapest possible (Xonar DG) or with something a little more expensive (Soundblaster Z/Zx) and why?


 
  
 Well you're in a thread all about the best headphones for virtual surround gaming, you mentioned that you have one of the best headphones for virtual surround gaming and that you play a game that benefits from virtual surround gaming.  Given those clues, I assumed you'd be using virtual surround gaming and therefore a soundcard would give you the best bang for your buck:  virtual surround plus a step up in the DAC and Amp categories.
  
 If you're not going to be using virtual surround, you really need to frame your question better.  What exactly are the results you desire?  Better sound from games?  Music?  Movies?  How much do you listen to each?  Etc.  You can't just ask a question like that with no background an expect us to correctly guess your intentions.
  
 You might also consider that this isn't the best thread in which to be asking that question, since you won't be using surround and you're not on a console.


----------



## djodars

stillhart said:


> Well you're in a thread all about the best headphones for virtual surround gaming, you mentioned that you have one of the best headphones for virtual surround gaming and that you play a game that benefits from virtual surround gaming.  Given those clues, I assumed you'd be using virtual surround gaming and therefore a soundcard would give you the best bang for your buck:  virtual surround plus a step up in the DAC and Amp categories.
> 
> If you're not going to be using virtual surround, you really need to frame your question better.  What exactly are the results you desire?  Better sound from games?  Music?  Movies?  How much do you listen to each?  Etc.  You can't just ask a question like that with no background an expect us to correctly guess your intentions.
> 
> You might also consider that this isn't the best thread in which to be asking that question, since you won't be using surround and you're not on a console.


 

 Well virtual surround is just a gimmick as you can hear surround with basic stereo. I don't want to use virtual surround as they're not precise at all and they're not the sounds that the developers intented the user to hear.
  
 I tried asking my question in different places but haven't had a single answer that explains everything clearly yet.
  
 If you're saying that my headphones are one of the best headphones for gaming, in that case I shouldn't change them but either buy a cheap soundcard or get a DAC/AMP to get better audio?
  
 The results I want optimally is best positional audio in games.


----------



## Stillhart

djodars said:


> Well virtual surround is just a gimmick as you can hear surround with basic stereo. I don't want to use virtual surround as they're not precise at all and they're not the sounds that the developers intented the user to hear.
> 
> I tried asking my question in different places but haven't had a single answer that explains everything clearly yet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want the best positional audio, I suggest getting a Sound Blaster Z or Omni and using virtual surround.  Upgrading your DAC/Amp or headphones will do nothing to improve the positional accuracy of stereo gaming, AFAIK.  I mean, there are ones that are rated slightly better than the Senns, but the difference won't be worth the money spent IMO.
  
 This thread is all about people who don't believe it's a gimmick.  Chicolom posted a video a few pages back that compared stereo, DH and SBX on the same exact clip from a game.  Why don't you go listen for yourself and see if you can tell the difference and whether you think it's a gimmick?
  
 http://new.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added/25095#post_10770608


----------



## djodars

stillhart said:


> If you want the best positional audio, I suggest getting a Sound Blaster Z or Omni and using virtual surround.  Upgrading your DAC/Amp or headphones will do nothing to improve the positional accuracy of stereo gaming, AFAIK.  I mean, there are ones that are rated slightly better than the Senns, but the difference won't be worth the money spent IMO.
> 
> This thread is all about people who don't believe it's a gimmick.  Chicolom posted a video a few pages back that compared stereo, DH and SBX on the same exact clip from a game.  Why don't you go listen for yourself and see if you can tell the difference and whether you think it's a gimmick?
> 
> http://new.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added/25095#post_10770608



 


I should rephrase what I said about virtual surround. Some games have good coding regarding the position of the sound (like counter-strike) and don't require virtual surround. Other games (like BF, COD and others), don't have good audio coding and REQUIRES virtual surround to hear surround.

As you can see in this video (disable virtual surround and close your eyes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA it's clear that with good coding, you don't need virtual surround.

As for the footsteps in CS:GO, I believe it's mid-range audio and that's why I'm asking if a soundcard or DAC/AMP would improve on this and if yes, which one is the best to do it. My guess is that both are good and if I only have a 50 ohms pair of headphones, a soundcard will be cheaper and do the same thing but if I'd have a 250 or even 600ohms pair of headphones, a DAC and AMP would be my best bet?


----------



## conquerator2

The SoundBlaster3D is pretty amazing so far.
 Has it been established that leaving the surround slider at 67% is the best?
 It is less immersive than DH but much more accurate and imaging is noticeably better as well but yeah, less cinematic.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> The SoundBlaster3D is pretty amazing so far.
> Has it been established that leaving the surround slider at 67% is the best?
> It is less immersive than DH but much more accurate and imaging is noticeably better as well but yeah, less cinematic.


 
 Per the discussion on Chicolom's video, moving the slider towards 100% will "blend" the cues more so it's more "immersive" like DH.  Or in other words, 67% will give you more accurate details, 100% will give you more realistic sound. 
  
 Personally, I prefer 67% to 100% by quite a bit.


----------



## Murder Mike

evshrug said:


> Maybe I'd be better off just getting a USB mic. Snowball, Samson, any other suggestions or tips from PS users experienced with using a standalone USB mic?


 
  
 The Samson Go-Mic and Blue Snowball are the most recommended on the PC forums I visit. If you wanted to go a little higher, you could grab a Blue Yeti or AT2020. 
  
  


stillhart said:


> Tomb Raider as an Xbone exclusive will piss off PC gamers, which isn't maybe the wisest move.


 
  
 IIRC it's only a timed exclusive.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Per the discussion on Chicolom's video, moving the slider towards 100% will "blend" the cues more so it's more "immersive" like DH.  Or in other words, 67% will give you more accurate details, 100% will give you more realistic sound.
> 
> Personally, I prefer 67% to 100% by quite a bit.


 
 K, thanks.
 Yeah, I guess I'll use DH for immersive and SBX for accuracy dependent games. Or just choose 
 It does seem like the internals are noticeably better... More timbre, lets your expensive headphones shine  Guess that's "less processed" for me 
 Also, no bass boost or crystalizer. Has anyone tried EQ it a bit [any EQ tips or tricks to try?]
 I was a bit skeptical, but the Recon's SBX surround is pretty amazing and less processed by a noticeable margin...
 I also bought a Blaster Z for my speakers while at it and compared to on-board integrated, it's a no-contest :]
 DH is still great though and I suppose once DH-X is out, it'll kick it a notch up above...
 Still, thanks for the tip everyone!
  
 EDIT: Positional cues/imaging/clarity up a few notches. DH definitely "restraints" good quality headphones in a way, by overly processing the sound. I think I'd much rather use the EQ settings on the Recon3D than DH right now... Not saying it won't change over time but right now, the clarity boost is just phenomenal. It is a pretty weak source though, that's clear. TB DSP was at 40/100, Recon is at 50-55/10 that's on high gain! [custom +26DB]. Recon is -2 clicks below max vol.


----------



## Yethal

djodars said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > If you want the best positional audio, I suggest getting a Sound Blaster Z or Omni and using virtual surround.  Upgrading your DAC/Amp or headphones will do nothing to improve the positional accuracy of stereo gaming, AFAIK.  I mean, there are ones that are rated slightly better than the Senns, but the difference won't be worth the money spent IMO.
> ...


 
 The Video You posted is a binaural recording made using a dummy head with microphones inside them that record the sound the way human ears do, it has nothing to do with game's positional audio. Both Battlefield and Call of Duty have good audio engines and render great positional surround sound (by that I mean actual 5.1 or 7.1 speakers), we just take that signal and output it to our headphones. If You really believe that virtual surround is just a gimmick then I'm afraid You're in a wrong place altogether.


----------



## djodars

yethal said:


> The Video You posted is a binaural recording made using a dummy head with microphones inside them that record the sound the way human ears do, it has nothing to do with game's positional audio. Both Battlefield and Call of Duty have good audio engines and render great positional surround sound (by that I mean actual 5.1 or 7.1 speakers), we just take that signal and output it to our headphones. If You really believe that virtual surround is just a gimmick then I'm afraid You're in a wrong place altogether.


 
 I only linked the video to prove you could hear surround even when you only have a stereo source. It's all in the way the sound is coded and in CS:GO, you can hear surround in headphone or stereo mode and it's very accurate. Also, using virtual surround you can have delay during the calculation required to output the 5.1 to stereo and you can also have errors in the calculation or so I read. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> ^When are you supposed to be receiving the HP200?


 
  
 I should hear something today or tomorrow on shipping. Looking forward to hearing them. Current impressions of the EROS v2, buy a Monoprice 8323 and a BoomPro for $53.97 instead; $21.02 less than the MRSP of the GAMDIAS headset.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Destiny actually gets a LOT of hates on forums for being a glorified Halo with Borderlands system. I've seen it mentioned so much. To be fair, gameplay is exactly like Halo, but in a new loot based system. Bungie could've turned this into a Halo spinoff in the Halo universe, and no one would've batted an eyelash. The core Halo gameplay is there. Not that it's a bad thing. I prefer the Destiny Beta over all the other Halo games. I think the loot based exploration works for the big maps that Halo is known to have. Halo campaigns don't really do it for me, though the gameplay was always solid.
> 
> I have a thing for loot based action games. I'm anticipating getting Diablo III for PS4 once I have nothing to do. I sunk in 40+ hours on Dragon's Crown in a few weeks, because it was a fun loot based action game.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I liked Halo and I absolutely adored Borderlands 2. Should Destiny be successful at taking parts that I loved from both and successfully sequence them into a single game then I am going to poop rainbows. No exaggeration, that will actually happen.


----------



## Yethal

djodars said:


> I only linked the video to prove you could hear surround even when you only have a stereo source. It's all in the way the sound is coded and in CS:GO, you can hear surround in headphone or stereo mode and it's very accurate. Also, using virtual surround you can have delay during the calculation required to output the 5.1 to stereo and you can also have errors in the calculation or so I read. Correct me if I'm wrong.


 
 Yup but it is a prerecorded video, that's why no special hardware is required to hear positional cues. There is no delay involved in sound processing, at least not big enough for human brain to notice. Well, the best advice for You would probably be to borrow an internal or external soundcard, or find somebody in Your area who has such a device and hear for yourself. I don't see any other way. Also a nice DAC/AMP never hurts


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He doesn't seem to understand virtual surround, binaural, and stereo differences, at all. Lol. I'd just leave him alone. All the examples were given to him, but he still thinks a binaural recording is comparable to what a plain 2 channel source does.

Binaural, AND VIRTUAL SURROUND ARE BOTH fed to a 2 channel device.... HEADPHONES.

I can literally pre-record a virtual surround demo, and it'd be no diferent than a pre-recorded binaural video. Neither a reflective on what is possible with just a 2 channel source.


----------



## Yethal

To put it easily
  
 Virtual Surround = Stereo + magic


----------



## conquerator2

Well, I returned from Gamescom today and was disappointed that Turtle Beach had NO DH-X products at the show...
 Good experience it was, though I didn't get to try any of the interesting, playable demos as Destiny, Bloodborne, The Order and all the other interesting IPs had a 2 - 5 hour long line of people [or were closed for other visitors for the day, as the line was already just enormous].... Yep, there were signs with estimated waiting times


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If binaural was a thing for gaming, virtual surround alternatives, wouldn't be necessary. But binaural + games are extremely rare, which is WHY we use virtual surround. You're not going to get anywhere NEAR what binaural or virtual surround does by standard 2 channel sources.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Well, I returned from Gamescom today and was disappointed that Turtle Beach had NO DH-X products at the show...
> Good experience it was, though I didn't get to try any of the interesting, playable demos as Destiny, Bloodborne, The Order and all the other interesting IPs had a 2 - 5 hour long line of people [or were closed for other visitors for the day, as the line was already just enormous].... Yep, there were signs with estimated waiting times


 
 Yeah, I've given up trying to demo any of the new exciting games at PAX.  I just don't really care to stand in 2-hour lines when there's so many other cool things to do.  I'll be at PAX Prime in a couple weeks, maybe TB will have something there...


----------



## jaysins

I did a blind test, literally, where I closed my eyes and would try and line my crosshair up to something in game making a a sound and with the Xonar and Creative sound cards I found the surround sound and accuracy to be very good. The sound cards did a great job and I'm very happy I got one. I do the test with my eyes close to make it objective and it was very cool to see just how good it was.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like I have said before:

If I had to make strict choice to LIVE with, with no other possible outcomes, beween a top of the line headphone like an HD800/Stax Omega, with stereo, or a $15 KSC75 with a virtual surround device, I would choose the latter, every single time. I wouldn't think twice either.


----------



## Dblupletch

Hey guys, first time poster, long time lurker.
 I Recently upgraded my sound card from the recon3d to a SB ZXR.  I have only just started to notice that I was not getting surround and with this new card, I am hearing a lot more.  I use ATH M50s and they are alright but I am starting to see their limits in a gaming capacity.  I here the directional audio but with the M50s it seems like there is not much space between the directions or that the sound if too close to my ears.  Also they get uncomfortable after long use.
  
 So after reading Mad Lust's list I saw two pairs of cans that stuck out the most for a good balance between fun and competitive - the DT990 and the AKG k712 Pros
  
 Both of these headphones seem to still have a low end without giving up the directional audio
  
 Price wise I have seen both of these pairs on amazon for around $350-$380
  
 I found a the DT990 600 Ohms (which is the version I want) for $229 on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BeyerDynamic-DT-990-Premium-Headphones-600-OHM-/311002618844?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item4869335bdc
  
 The price is good but if the K712 are better then I'll swing that way
  
 Hopefully you guys havesome tips for me.  Thanks!


----------



## Dblupletch

Hey guys, first time poster, long time lurker.
 I Recently upgraded my sound card from the recon3d to a SB ZXR.  I have only just started to notice that I was not getting surround and with this new card, I am hearing a lot more.  I use ATH M50s and they are alright but I am starting to see their limits in a gaming capacity.  I here the directional audio but with the M50s it seems like there is not much space between the directions or that the sound if too close to my ears.  Also they get uncomfortable after long use.
  
 So after reading Mad Lust's list I saw two pairs of cans that stuck out the most for a good balance between fun and competitive - the DT990 and the AKG k712 Pros
  
 Both of these headphones seem to still have a low end without giving up the directional audio
  
 Price wise I have seen both of these pairs on amazon for around $350-$380
  
 I found a the DT990 600 Ohms (which is the version I want) for $229 on ebay
  
  
 The price is good but if the K712 are better then I'll swing that way
  
 Hopefully you guys havesome tips for me.  Thanks!


----------



## madmalkav

I love 600 ohms beyers, but they are hard to drive, if you are not willing to put some extra money on amplification, you will be better with the AKG's.


----------



## brenosabino

So, based on your list and my current budget I'm debating between the Creative Aurvana Live ($68 Amazon) or Ultrasone HFI-15G ($89 Amazon) and also these two others that aren't in the list TRITTON 720+ ($85 Amazon) and Creative WP-380 ($85 Amazon).
  
 The WP-380 option would double as a bluetooth headset for my phone and some reviewers said it sound similar to the CAL.
 As for the Tritton's people say its overpriced like razer or beats but for this price it seems to be a good deal and looks nice too.
  
 Things to consider for me: I have a pretty big head, the headset im using right now (Microsoft LX-3000) barely fit me at the max size. I will use mainly for gaming and listening to music on my desktop. I need it to have low sound leak but still want to hear some outside noise if people try to talk to me. As for the microphone i would use Zalman ZM-MIC1 that straps on the headphone cable.


----------



## PurpleAngel

dblupletch said:


> Hey guys, first time poster, long time lurker.
> I Recently upgraded my sound card from the recon3d to a SB ZXR.  I have only just started to notice that I was not getting surround and with this new card, I am hearing a lot more.  I use ATH M50s and they are alright but I am starting to see their limits in a gaming capacity.  I here the directional audio but with the M50s it seems like there is not much space between the directions or that the sound if too close to my ears.  Also they get uncomfortable after long use.
> So after reading Mad Lust's list I saw two pairs of cans that stuck out the most for a good balance between fun and competitive - the DT990 and the AKG k712 Pros
> Both of these headphones seem to still have a low end without giving up the directional audio
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
 Did you completely remove the Creative Recon3D software, before installing the newer Creative SBX software?
 Might consider getting the DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones, more "balanced" sound then the DT990 and 250-Ohm headphone are a little easier for the SB-ZxR to drive.
 Used DT880s start at $156.50
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyerdynamic-DT-880-PRO-Headband-Headphones-Silver-Black-/321492295369?pt=US_DJ_Monitoring_Headphones&hash=item4ada6f1ec9


----------



## Dblupletch

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio? in the BIOS.
> Did you completely remove the Creative Recon3D software, before installing the newer Creative SBX software?
> Might consider getting the DT880 Pro 250-Ohm headphones, more "balanced" sound then the DT990 and 250-Ohm headphone are a little easier for the SB-ZxR to drive.
> Used DT880s start at $156.50
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyerdynamic-DT-880-PRO-Headband-Headphones-Silver-Black-/321492295369?pt=US_DJ_Monitoring_Headphones&hash=item4ada6f1ec9


 
  
 I did not disable to the onboard audio but I have never installed the drivers for it
  
 I should have specified that I did a new pc build entirely and there was fresh windows install
  
 I have looked at the 880s but what drew me towards the 990s was mad lust's review.  At least what I pulled from it was that it was a fun headphone, still having bass and highs, while still maintaining directional accuracy.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I've given up trying to demo any of the new exciting games at PAX.  I just don't really care to stand in 2-hour lines when there's so many other cool things to do.  I'll be at PAX Prime in a couple weeks, maybe TB will have something there...


 
  
 Get press credentials and then organize meetings with the developers. You'll get to set an appointment and then skip the line when its your time. Wonderful stuff, that.


----------



## empty001

yethal said:


> Sound coming from PS4 controller might be sufficient for You, although plugging headset into it drains battery life. What's Your budget?







empty001 said:


> hello guys. just joining this forum coz i liked this thread.
> 
> i have some question about PS4 gaming headphone. I can not seems to buy astro mixamp because they're too pricey for me. And i dont have any DAC/AMP yet.
> 
> ...





yethal said:


> Sound coming from PS4 controller might be sufficient for You, although plugging headset into it drains battery life. What's Your budget?




My budget is150 bucks . 
1. How good sony gold wireless sound quality over turtle beach px4 and tritton 720+?
2. Is mixamp surround will work with all ps4 game?


----------



## PurpleAngel

It appears that the HyperX Cloud headphones and QPed QH-90 headphones are Takstar Pro 80s with an added mic.
 Maybe they should be added to the gaming guide, after someone who owns them posts a review.


----------



## Yethal

empty001 said:


> My budget is150 bucks .
> 1. How good sony gold wireless sound quality over turtle beach px4 and tritton 720+?
> 2. Is mixamp surround will work with all ps4 game?


 
 1. Out of the three You mentioned ax720+ sounds reasonable and You can upgrade it later by keeping the box and selling just the headphones
 2. Yep


----------



## motorwayne

MLE - In your review of the K612 Pro you suggest a warmer AMP as a match up...Any opinions on what might be good?
  
 I'm a gamer and run a Titanium HD for a sound card...currently powering through an O2 amp.


----------



## Change is Good

^Schiit Asgard 2, Matrix M-Stage, iFi iCAN


----------



## jdubsss

Currently beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what direction to go after reading this thread.  I'm looking for a closed headphone and ended up buying the DT770 (250ohm) and I'm not happy with them at all.  I tried using them in a competitive setting (should have listened to the review, lol) and the bass is just too boomy to cue in on the little details in a game like cs:go.  That being said, I'm pretty much set on one of the mad dog or alpha dog variants, but I can't figure out what the hell I want.
  
 I have a bifrost/asgard 2 combo that would be driving them.  My main question is is the alpha dog worth twice the cost of the mad dog?  They'll be used for music as well and I basically listen to everything except for country.  Then MrSpeakers went head and threw in the Mad Dog Pro to make the decision even tougher.  Money isn't really a problem, but the alpha dogs would be far the most expensive cans I have coming from HD598s and HD650s.


----------



## PurpleAngel

motorwayne said:


> MLE - In your review of the K612 Pro you suggest a warmer AMP as a match up...Any opinions on what might be good?
> I'm a gamer and run a Titanium HD for a sound card...currently powering through an O2 amp.


 
  
 You might look into replacing the two JRC2114 op-amps on the Ti-HD
 The LME49720 op-amps are low cost, like $4 each.


----------



## Stillhart

There's a crazy ass deal for the Sony Gold Wireless Headset right now for anyone interested.  I ended up paying $16 for mine:
  
 $90 Headset
 $15 filler item
 $6 shipping
 $0 tax
 -$15 instant coupon
  
*$96 out of pocket cost*
  
 -$50 MIR for headset
 -$15 MIR for filler item
 -$15 cash back from Amex
  
*$16 Total*
  
 For that price, I just had to grab one.


----------



## xero404

jdubsss said:


> Currently beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what direction to go after reading this thread.  I'm looking for a closed headphone and ended up buying the DT770 (250ohm) and I'm not happy with them at all.  I tried using them in a competitive setting (should have listened to the review, lol) and the bass is just too boomy to cue in on the little details in a game like cs:go.  That being said, I'm pretty much set on one of the mad dog or alpha dog variants, but I can't figure out what the hell I want.
> 
> I have a bifrost/asgard 2 combo that would be driving them.  My main question is is the alpha dog worth twice the cost of the mad dog?  They'll be used for music as well and I basically listen to everything except for country.  Then MrSpeakers went head and threw in the Mad Dog Pro to make the decision even tougher.  Money isn't really a problem, but the alpha dogs would be far the most expensive cans I have coming from HD598s and HD650s.


 
 The Mad Dog was a really good set of closed cans coming from HD280s. Very nice bass response, great isolation but it had no doubts that it was a closed headphone. I upgraded to alphas in the spring and to me they are worth the extra price due to the soundstage (i get pretty fooled how large it is for a closed can). The mad dog pros i tried on keep that bass response and overall is a better can than the mad dogs but both easily lose out to the soundstage from the alphas (i haven't touched the bass screw on my alphas btw). I'd get a mad dog and see if you like the sound signature and upgrade if you want better soundstage.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> There's a crazy ass deal for the Sony Gold Wireless Headset right now for anyone interested.  I ended up paying $16 for mine:
> 
> $90 Headset
> $15 filler item
> ...


 
 And how'd You like it? The sound quality the virtual surround and the mic?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> And how'd You like it? The sound quality the virtual surround and the mic?


 
  
 Seeing as he just ordered I doubt he has it yet.


----------



## Yethal

Damn, if the sq is right and the virtual surround isn't **** it could be a viable option.
  
 Stillhart, can You review these cans for us as soon as they arrive?


----------



## PurpleAngel

dblupletch said:


> I did not disable to the on-board audio but I have never installed the drivers for it
> I should have specified that I did a new pc build entirely and there was fresh windows install
> I have looked at the 880s but what drew me towards the 990s was mad lust's review.  At least what I pulled from it was that it was a fun headphone, still having bass and highs, while still maintaining directional accuracy.


 
  
 Even if you did not install the on-board audio drivers yourself, Windows would have load basic generic drivers for your on-board audio chip-set, maybe even updated those drivers automatically off the Internet.
 So you still might consider disabling the on-board audio, in the BIOS.
 If the DT990s seem to offer what you want, then get the DT990s


----------



## jdubsss

xero404 said:


> The Mad Dog was a really good set of closed cans coming from HD280s. Very nice bass response, great isolation but it had no doubts that it was a closed headphone. I upgraded to alphas in the spring and to me they are worth the extra price due to the soundstage (i get pretty fooled how large it is for a closed can). The mad dog pros i tried on keep that bass response and overall is a better can than the mad dogs but both easily lose out to the soundstage from the alphas (i haven't touched the bass screw on my alphas btw). I'd get a mad dog and see if you like the sound signature and upgrade if you want better soundstage.


 
 So if I want to use them for gaming 60% of the time it's a no brainer to go for the Alphas then?  I don't want to make the mistake I did with the DT770 which now have to go back to amazon.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Damn, if the sq is right and the virtual surround isn't **** it could be a viable option.
> 
> Stillhart, can You review these cans for us as soon as they arrive?


 
  
 Yup, for sure.  And since I don't have a pressing need for them, I would be willing to send them to MLE temporarily to review (if he decides he's up for it).


----------



## Yethal

It would be a bummer if he discovers they are absolutely phenomenal for gaming and we've been wasting our time with the mixamp for all these years.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> It would be a bummer if he discovers they are absolutely phenomenal for gaming and we've been wasting our time with the mixamp for all these years.


 
  
 Seeing that the Gold headset is limited to use with only the Sony headphones then the Mixamp has more utility. It can be used with any headphones, not just the ones pre-packaged with the USB dongle. That's why the Mixamp is so popular around here. And seeing as they're closed back headphones I doubt they'll be phenomenal. They could probably do well but they won't hold up to the positional queues of open cans.
  


jdubsss said:


> So if I want to use them for gaming 60% of the time it's a no brainer to go for the Alphas then?  I don't want to make the mistake I did with the DT770 which now have to go back to amazon.


 
  
 The Alphas are excellent closed back headphones. They have a nice big soundstage considering the shortcomings of a closed can. Sometimes I nearly forget that they're closed. Nearly, they're not as big as some of the open headphones I've owned but they definitely do it well. The Mad Dogs are great headphones too. They have an excellent fun sound. Honestly I'd say it all comes down to budget. Alphas are better than Mad Dogs for me since I like more linear sound. But the Mad Dogs are still a great choice for immersive gaming. I wouldn't recommend them as highly f your focus is competitive. Then there's also the MDP. A lot of people rate the Pro directly between the MD and AD. If you can spend the money on the AD's then you'll definitely enjoy them for gaming. Oh yeah.


----------



## Yethal

The Gold Headset has a 4 pole 3.5mm input so it can actually be connected to most audio source. Hmm I wonder if they'll fare better when connected by wire to the mixamp. That would be funny as hell


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> The Gold Headset has a 4 pole 3.5mm input so it can actually be connected to most audio source. Hmm I wonder if they'll fare better when connected by wire to the mixamp. That would be funny as hell


 
  
 Yeah, it has the cable to connect it to audio devices but you'll only get the 7.1 from the USB. You'll need something like the Mixamp to get it surround sound using the cable. At that point it just seems silly.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, it has the cable to connect it to audio devices but you'll only get the 7.1 from the USB. You'll need something like the Mixamp to get it surround sound using the cable. At that point it just seems silly.


 
 Yeah but if it turned up the sound quality and virtual surround were better when using the mixamp I'd probably die laughing


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Yeah, it has the cable to connect it to audio devices but you'll only get the 7.1 from the USB. You'll need something like the Mixamp to get it surround sound using the cable. At that point it just seems silly.


 
 But it does make it much easier to A/B the surround processing of the USB vs the Mixamp and Recon...


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Yeah but if it turned up the sound quality and virtual surround were better when using the mixamp I'd probably die laughing


 
  
 Depending on what kind of software they're using for the DSP, that's definitely a possibility.
  
  


stillhart said:


> But it does make it much easier to A/B the surround processing of the USB vs the Mixamp and Recon...


 
  
 This is true. Using the same drivers just different DSPs. An interesting test to run sometime.


----------



## Yethal

What I'd really like to test is Sony's DSP on different set of headphones, preferably open ones. Might never happen though


----------



## Evshrug

murder mike said:


> The Samson Go-Mic and Blue Snowball are the most recommended on the PC forums I visit. If you wanted to go a little higher, you could grab a Blue Yeti or AT2020.




I'd go a little lower if I could, but the controller chat of the PS4 is driving me nuts since I can't pipe all audio OUTPUT (so that chat audio goes through "speakers" like the Xbox 360), so I'll probably end up with one of these. Is the Samson only Omni-directional? Do either mics have gain switches?


----------



## Change is Good

Way to go Stillhart! The bargain king strikes again...


----------



## jaysins

It's hard to pass up a good sale. I'm tempted to pay him to find me good deals


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> It's hard to pass up a good sale. I'm tempted to pay him to find me good deals


 
  
 That deal has been going for a week or two apparently, I'm not sure why I only just noticed it.  They're sold out again, but they keep going in and out of stock, so maybe keep an eye on it if your'e interested.  The rebate is good thru the end of the month.


----------



## jdubsss

axelcloris said:


> The Alphas are excellent closed back headphones. They have a nice big soundstage considering the shortcomings of a closed can. Sometimes I nearly forget that they're closed. Nearly, they're not as big as some of the open headphones I've owned but they definitely do it well. The Mad Dogs are great headphones too. They have an excellent fun sound. Honestly I'd say it all comes down to budget. Alphas are better than Mad Dogs for me since I like more linear sound. But the Mad Dogs are still a great choice for immersive gaming. I wouldn't recommend them as highly f your focus is competitive. Then there's also the MDP. A lot of people rate the Pro directly between the MD and AD. If you can spend the money on the AD's then you'll definitely enjoy them for gaming. Oh yeah.


 
  
 Hmm... does one make more sense than the other if I have the HD650s and HD598?


----------



## motorwayne

purpleangel said:


> You might look into replacing the two JRC2114 op-amps on the Ti-HD
> The LME49720 op-amps are low cost, like $4 each.


 
 Yep did that and chucked in a couple of OPA2111AM's too (the good ones)...sound is good, but just wondered of the tubes might improve it a bit more too.


----------



## benbenkr

yethal said:


> The Gold Headset has a 4 pole 3.5mm input so it can actually be connected to most audio source. *Hmm I wonder if they'll fare better when connected by wire to the mixamp. That would be funny as hell*


 
  
 Start laughing then, because it's true.
  
 The Gold (and also the Pulse Elite) headset wakes up entirely just being connected to an amp. Be it a cheapo TB DSS or a Mixamp, doesn't matter. Give it a little bit of power and it sounds so much better than being wireless.
  
 My understanding is that because the battery needs to be used when in wireless mode, the drivers aren't actually being fed enough current for them to actually work. This is to of course improve battery life and Sony can't afford to put in bigger batteries as they want to keep their headsets light.
  
 So yes, it sounds significantly better when wired. It's not even a competition. Otherwise in wireless mode, every damn thing just sounds so veiled even at max volume.
  
  


yethal said:


> What I'd really like to test is Sony's DSP on different set of headphones, preferably open ones. Might never happen though


 
  
 Sony's VSS is nothing to shout about. If you want to know how it sounds like, take Dolby Pro Logic 2 and cut out 20% of the reverb. That's Sony's VSS.


----------



## Yethal

benbenkr said:


> Start laughing then, because it's true.
> 
> The Gold (and also the Pulse Elite) headset wakes up entirely just being connected to an amp. Be it a cheapo TB DSS or a Mixamp, doesn't matter. Give it a little bit of power and it sounds so much better than being wireless.
> 
> ...


 
 What do they sound like when wired? What's the closest match (aside from other sony headphones, I guess)


----------



## NamelessPFG

purpleangel said:


> You might look into replacing the two JRC2114 op-amps on the Ti-HD
> The LME49720 op-amps are low cost, like $4 each.



Don't do that unless you like incredibly jacked-up bass and treble with hollow, distant, recessed mids.

I made a similar change and it sounded horrible. Immediately put the JRCs back in and everything sounded much better.


----------



## jimador48

I need some help, I currently have akg 545 and the acu from turtle beach. I recently picked up a blue yeti and was wondering how would I connect everything to my Xbox one?


----------



## PurpleAngel

namelesspfg said:


> Don't do that unless you like incredibly jacked-up bass and treble with hollow, distant, recessed mids.
> 
> I made a similar change and it sounded horrible. Immediately put the JRCs back in and everything sounded much better.


 
  
 Are there any good op-amps replacements for the stock op-amps on the Ti-HD?


----------



## NamelessPFG

purpleangel said:


> Are there any good op-amps replacements for the stock op-amps on the Ti-HD?



There may be some good combinations out there, but I haven't bothered experimenting because I like how the Titanium HD sounds in its stock configuration already. I'd likely find myself disappointed again and again and again.


----------



## lenroot77

Hey guys can someone please tell me if there anyway to send gameplay sound out of the ps4 via optical and do chat thru the ps4 controller? If so what cable do I need? 

I was just reading the ps4 3.5mm x2 thread and I couldn't find d a definite answer. 

Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

Have you guys read up on this new Cayin C5 portable amp? It supposedly has similar juice to the E12, maybe a little more? I'm also reading that the sound quality compares to that of the iCAN, which was noticeably better than the E12 to me.

Very interesting...


----------



## motorwayne

I am definitely happy with the OPA2111AM swap out of the 2114's...essentially followed this guide HERE. They were expensive but love them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Edit: nvm


----------



## NamelessPFG

motorwayne said:


> I am definitely happy with the OPA2111AM swap out of the 2114's...essentially followed this guide HERE. They were expensive but love them.


 
  
 What did you like so much about the change?

 I can't speak for OPA2111AMs, but putting LM4562/LME49xx0 variants in place of the stock JRC 2114Ds is a total no-go for me, never again. Everything sounded kinda raspy and shrill on top of the extreme V-shaped response.


----------



## gab840

Waiting for the day when Mad Lust Envy reviews HD800 & Tesla T1 in this thread!!!!!


----------



## Yethal

gab840 said:


> Waiting for the day when Mad Lust Envy reviews HD800 & Tesla T1 in this thread!!!!!


 
 It's simple he'll assign the HD800 a perfect score all across the board


----------



## jaysins

yethal said:


> It's simple he'll assign the HD800 a perfect score all across the board


 
 I want to buy a pair so bad but I'm too worried I'll get them and not like them or decide it's too incremental of an improvement for the cost. I live in a big city with no high end headphone boutiques. First world problems


----------



## Yethal

jaysins said:


> I want to buy a pair so bad but I'm too worried I'll get them and not like them or decide it's too incremental of an improvement for the cost. I live in a big city with no high end headphone boutiques. First world problems


 
 I'd buy them in a heartbeat if I had a money for them and an amp powerful enough to drive them to their full potential


----------



## wind

One thing with the Skullcandy SLYR headset, the earpads are really poor quality. Mine fell apart from normal use after ~7 months. I contacted Skullcandy to try and get earpad replacements but they keep telling me "they haven't received any shipment for them."


----------



## benbenkr

yethal said:


> What do they sound like when wired? What's the closest match (aside from other sony headphones, I guess)


 
  
 The Gold... I can't say. Don't have a reference to what it sounds closest to.
  
 The Pulse Elite reminded me of the DT770, with less kick on the bass but smoother, more upfront mids.


----------



## Yethal

benbenkr said:


> The Gold... I can't say. Don't have a reference to what it sounds closest to.
> 
> The Pulse Elite reminded me of the DT770, with less kick on the bass but smoother, more upfront mids.


 
 And how was the positioning?


----------



## AxelCloris

gab840 said:


> Waiting for the day when Mad Lust Envy reviews HD800 & Tesla T1 in this thread!!!!!


 
  
 That may be a while. I offered him my T1 for review before, but now he's on sabbatical and taking a break for a bit before he comes back to reviewing. Can't blame him, now he can actually play and enjoy games rather than analyze and critique the sound of a pair of headphones. And since the T1s have been sold he won't be able to borrow mine anymore.


----------



## gab840

axelcloris said:


> That may be a while. I offered him my T1 for review before, but now he's on sabbatical and taking a break for a bit before he comes back to reviewing. Can't blame him, now he can actually play and enjoy games rather than analyze and critique the sound of a pair of headphones. And since the T1s have been sold he won't be able to borrow mine anymore.


 

  
 But wy did u sell T1 for which pair of Headphones ?? You didnt liked them??


----------



## Murder Mike

> Is the Samson only Omni-directional? Do either mics have gain switches?


 
 The Samson has cardioid pickup as well as omni-directional. It and the Snowball both have a cardioid, cardioid with -10dB, and omni-directional switch. The gain is Windows/Mac OS controlled for both, but there is a firmware tweak for the Snowball to change it to low or high gain.


----------



## AxelCloris

gab840 said:


> But wy did u sell T1 for which pair of Headphones ?? You didnt liked them??


 
  
 I traded them for a camera, lens and some accessories, not another headphone. I found myself putting on the Alpha Dogs more often than the T1, so there was no sense keeping them around.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> I traded them for a camera, lens and some accessories, not another headphone. I found myself putting on the Alpha Dogs more often than the T1, so there was no sense keeping them around.


 

 Was is it a canon camera lens?


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Was is it a canon camera lens?


 
  
 Nope, it's a Nikon.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Nope, it's a Nikon.


 
  
 This guy knows what's up.


----------



## imac2much

Well, I was able to procure a brand new HE-400i from a HiFiman dealer here in Beijing.  After pairing this with my Soundblaster Omni and Burson Soloist SL, I am quite frankly amazed at the improvement in both sound quality and comfort over Soundmagic HP100.  Over the past few weeks I've tried some other headphones, and I feel the build quality of the 400i is much better than that of the Sennheiser 600/650.  I tried the HE-400 and HE-500 but ultimately found them too heavy and cheap feeling for my preference.  The HE-400i is a great improvement even over the 400i and alcantara pads, due to the pleather/velour combination pads.  
  
 In terms of sound quality, I find the bass punchier with more impact, and the midrange and lower treble more distinguishable than the HP100.  After several hours of listening, I found that the HP100 w/ alcantara pads seemed to muffle certain instruments and percussion (easy to tell when listening for snare rimshots or cymbals).  The 400i has none of these problems and I find it easy to separate the instruments in my listening... although not quite as well as I could with the Senn 650's.  The soundstage seems a bit bigger than the HP100, but not remarkably so, and definitely not as large as the Sennheisers.  Yet because instrument separation was so much better, I still felt the overall "stage" was improved.
  
 I finished Homefront today, played some more Jazzpunk and completed the first chapter of CoD Blops II.  I find the 400i to be more immersive due to the more even sound signature and bass/sub-bass extension.  However, the HP100 was no slouch either and I still switch to them when I need a closed headphone if the wife is sleeping.  Although the HE-400i offers a definite improvement over the HP100, I feel some of this is lost in gaming - the most marked differences occur when I listen to music.
  
 Either way I am quite happy with both headphones.  I have a Resonessence Concero coming in to replace my Omni for music, so I am hoping it will offer some aural improvements as well.
  
 I'll post further impressions of the 400i in terms of gaming later


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> ...a brand new HE-400i...Soundblaster Omni and Burson Soloist SL...Soundmagic HP100...Sennheiser 600/650...alcantara pads...Resonessence Concero...


 
  
 Yeah, sorry about your wallet!  Glad you're having fun with the hobby tho!  
  
 And yeah, I fully expect the $500 HE-400i to outshine the $200 HP100, no surprises there.  Looking forward to more gaming impressions with them.  Are you going to play Destiny?


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> Yeah, sorry about your wallet!  Glad you're having fun with the hobby tho!
> 
> And yeah, I fully expect the $500 HE-400i to outshine the $200 HP100, no surprises there.  Looking forward to more gaming impressions with them.  Are you going to play Destiny?


 
 Haha, I definitely have been having fun in the world of headphones!  I'm still amazed at the difference of sound quality that a good headphone and amp makes.  I didn't know what I was missing out on before!
  
 Unfortunately, with the spotty internet here in China I don't think I'll be playing any online multiplayer games.  Also, I don't have a PS4 anymore


----------



## ricardovix

Hello guys!
  
 I'm a owner of a Sennheiser HD 598, which I use ONLY for gaming, and my soundcard is a Creative X-FI Titanium HD. Well, I'm pretty satisfied with my Sennheiser HD 598, actually, I love it.
  
 However, I want to upgrade my headphone, but I don't know which one I should buy (I'm looking for more sound details/definition and more bass).
  
 Looking at the Tier A, which should have the best models (and my hd598 is tier b), I realized that the two best options are the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition and AKG K712 Pro.
  
 Am I right or there's another model that's a better choice?
  
 Thanks in advance,
  
 Ricardo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

With either, you'll lose a bit of tonal clarity, as they're both warmer and fuller sounding, taking a bit of attention away from the more dry, mid forwardness of the 598 in comparison. Due to the thicker sound, the 598 will also sound a little more spacious. However, all 3 are stellar performers, with the AKGs being more fun and immersive, while still being very detailed, just...warmer and more fleshed out.

As for the HD800, there is no way it'd get top marks in every regard. It's tonal balance has a lot in common with the K701 which while superbly detailed, does not make for the most immersive/fun headphones.

I've heard enough headphones to know that if its amazing at one thing, it's gonna be a little lacking elsewhere. No such thing as a perfect headphone for every situation. The closest you can get is a very good all rounder like the Alpha Dog, and even then, I missed the warmth and fullness of it's less expensive sibling.


----------



## Change is Good

Maybe the K612 will be more to his liking?


----------



## kman1211

I got the Schiit Lyr 2 today, the AKG K712s sound amazing on the amp and the tubes are not fully burned-in yet, so smooth and refined without any lack of body or dynamics.


----------



## jdubsss

jdubsss said:


> Currently beating my head against the wall trying to figure out what direction to go after reading this thread.  I'm looking for a closed headphone and ended up buying the DT770 (250ohm) and I'm not happy with them at all.  I tried using them in a competitive setting (should have listened to the review, lol) and the bass is just too boomy to cue in on the little details in a game like cs:go.  That being said, I'm pretty much set on one of the mad dog or alpha dog variants, but I can't figure out what the hell I want.
> 
> I have a bifrost/asgard 2 combo that would be driving them.  My main question is is the alpha dog worth twice the cost of the mad dog?  They'll be used for music as well and I basically listen to everything except for country.  Then MrSpeakers went head and threw in the Mad Dog Pro to make the decision even tougher.  Money isn't really a problem, but the alpha dogs would be far the most expensive cans I have coming from HD598s and HD650s.


 
  
 Still kicking this around... now I saw the Shure 1540s and made the decision even more difficult.
  
 Slightly leaning towards the MDP because 150 is 150 and I really do enjoy the DT770s with EDM.  If the MDP is suited towards that and STILL decent for gaming maybe that's the route I should go.
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## benbenkr

yethal said:


> And how was the positioning?


 
  
 Not bad, there's a sense of airiness that reminds you that you're on an open headphone. Positioning is quite on-par with the DT770. 
  
 Really, as a headset, the Pulse isn't bad. But it's build quality is seriously questionable. My review unit had its battery died within 27 days, dead as in not even being able to charge.
 My next unit had cracks on the headband.


----------



## calpis

Heads up for anyone wanting to try the hfi-15g, $50 BIN or $25 for a 6 day auction on ebay. It looks like it's for the older model so you'll get the long cord.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For $50, the 15G is right where it should be. I think thats the perfect price point for a great fun can, as long as people understand that its S-Logic = distant presentation.

It works unbelievably well with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

I hope it does S-Logic better than the PRO 550. I was utterly disappointed with that headphone, being one my first closed cans and all, right after the M50 (which I liked).

But maybe S-Logic was just a preference thing, and something I just wasn't used to...


----------



## calpis

I prefer S-Logic with open cans.
  
 I still want to get me a pair of the Pro 2500 to try out.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wait for the upcoming refreshes. Supposedly the higher PRO models will be getting S-Logic EX.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> Nope, it's a Nikon.


 

 Is it a stills camera? I have a canon 1dc with cine lense!


----------



## ricardovix

mad lust envy said:


> With either, you'll lose a bit of tonal clarity, as they're both warmer and fuller sounding, taking a bit of attention away from the more dry, mid forwardness of the 598 in comparison. Due to the thicker sound, the 598 will also sound a little more spacious. However, all 3 are stellar performers, with the AKGs being more fun and immersive, while still being very detailed, just...warmer and more fleshed out.
> 
> As for the HD800, there is no way it'd get top marks in every regard. It's tonal balance has a lot in common with the K701 which while superbly detailed, does not make for the most immersive/fun headphones.
> 
> I've heard enough headphones to know that if its amazing at one thing, it's gonna be a little lacking elsewhere. No such thing as a perfect headphone for every situation. The closest you can get is a very good all rounder like the Alpha Dog, and even then, I missed the warmth and fullness of it's less expensive sibling.


 
  

 Envy, thanks for your reply.
  
 I really like the hd598, but, as usual, now is the time for an upgrade.
  
 I want to spend more or less US$ 400,00 into the new headphone and the best options that I saw was the k702 anniversary and the k712 pro. There's another headphone that I should consider or they’re the best?
  
 I'm "worried" if they’ll be a great upgrade or not so much, because I like the confort and fun of the 598, so if they're best in this two points, I just can't imagine. 
  
 Besides, I love the soundstage and the clarity of the hd 598, and I don't want to go with anything “worse” at these two points.
  
 So, do you think that it's a good upgrade or I'll be spending money with no reason?
  
 Lastly, I use the creative x-fi titanium hd to have a "5.1" sound.. Do you think that I should buy a dac as well? If yes, which one will you recommend me?? And can I use the dac + the soundcard without problem?
  
 Just remembering, it’s only for gaming.
  
 Thanks


----------



## AUserName501

ricardovix said:


> Envy, thanks for your reply.
> 
> I really like the hd598, but, as usual, now is the time for an upgrade.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sennheiser HD600 and use your soundcard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K612 is better than the 598. The Q701 would be a more natural progression though.


----------



## Yethal

Anybody tried putting ksc-75 hooks onto hfi-15g drivers? That would make an interesting portable


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dont see it being possible, as there is just too much thickness between the pad and the driver casing. Now, can the 15g drivers fit the ksc75 shell itself? Probably, but the 15g is dampened a certwin way, and the speaker opening is intentionally done a certain way, so a standard case would probably ruin Ultrasone's balancing. The ideal thing here would be snapping off the 15Gs cup entirely, and attaching the hooks to it, but again, I dont think the hooks are large enough to sit on your ears right with huge cups like the 15G's housing.

Having wje mod my PX100-II with the KSC75 hooks worked well enough for the sound, but since the housing was bigger, it was a pretty uncomfortable fit. The 15G is even thicker, probably making it torturous.

It would be something though.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Is it a stills camera? I have a canon 1dc with cine lense!


 
  
 I took in trade a Nikon D7000, a Nikon 35mm f/1.8G lens, a Nikon MB-D11 battery grip and a few other accessories. It's not a full-frame like the EOS-1D C but it's a damned nice camera.
  
 Now, if you wanted to trade your 1D C for a BNIB Beyer T1 I can make that happen.


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> I took in trade a Nikon D7000, a Nikon 35mm f/1.8G lens, a Nikon MB-D11 battery grip and a few other accessories. It's not a full-frame like the EOS-1D C but it's a damned nice camera.
> 
> Now, if you wanted to trade your 1D C for a BNIB Beyer T1 I can make that happen.


 

 Even though you will be watching this in 1080p you can still see the depth that a 4k camera brings!


----------



## Yethal

Tried watching it in 4k. Webpage froze


----------



## jdubsss

Ordered the Alpha Dogs today... can't wait


----------



## Change is Good

jdubsss said:


> Ordered the Alpha Dogs today... can't wait




Wool woop!

What color?


----------



## jdubsss

Had to go with the Claret.  Thought about the black, but that shiny apple looked too good to pass up.


----------



## AvroArrow

ricardovix said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> I'm a owner of a Sennheiser HD 598, which I use ONLY for gaming, and my soundcard is a Creative X-FI Titanium HD. Well, I'm pretty satisfied with my Sennheiser HD 598, actually, I love it.
> However, I want to upgrade my headphone, but I don't know which one I should buy (I'm looking for more sound details/definition and more bass).
> Looking at the Tier A, which should have the best models (and my hd598 is tier b), I realized that the two best options are the AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition and AKG K712 Pro.


 
  
 I've got the HD598 and K702 65th Annies.  Comparing them side-by-side with music, the HD598 is more V-shaped (more bass & treble, less mids) sounding than the K702.65.  Also, I think the bass on the HD598 is looser than the AKGs because sounds kinda distorted compared to the AKG.  At least I think that's what looser vs controlled bass means.  The HD598 has more bass quantity but it doesn't sound as clear.  The AKGs sound more even across the entire range of bass, mids, and treble compared to the HD598 so don't expect more bass from the AKGs.  I personally prefer more neutral/even sounding headphones so I much prefer the K702.65.  Also you won't be able to properly drive the AKGs off the X-Fi Ti HD, you will need a decently power amp to drive them, a JDS O2, Schiit Magni, Vali, Fiio E09k and up.  I don't mean loud either, I mean fuller sounding.  The HD598 doesn't scale up as much as the AKGs do when you get more powerful amps.
  
 Speaking of Alpha Dogs I got to try them at the store last week.  I was listening to them with unfamiliar music and it was driven with a Schiit Lyr 2.  Man do they sound nice.  Extremely spacious sounding for a closed headphone and super comfy even on my big head.  I was expecting them to have more bass but actually, they sounded almost like a closed version of my K702.65, very neutral sounding.  Still on the fence about getting them since they're like almost 2x the price of my Annies for a closed version of my Annies.  I was expecting them to sound more different.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your hearing is like the complete opposite of my hearing. The 598 is anything but recessed in the mids. It's know for its forward mids, actually. So kind of confused by your impression.

That and saying the Annie and Alpha Dog sound similar. That's... far from my impression. The Alpha Dog is considerably more neutrally balanced with a clear treble tilt, while the Annie is quite warm, though it is linear in its balance, just warm.

I dunno.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> Your hearing is like the complete opposite of my hearing. The 598 is anything but recessed in the mids. It's know for its forward mids, actually. So kind of confused by your impression.
> 
> That and saying the Annie and Alpha Dog sound similar. That's... far from my impression. The Alpha Dog is considerably more neutrally balanced with a clear treble tilt, while the Annie is quite warm, though it is linear in its balance, just warm.
> 
> I dunno.


 

 The reason it is likely so different than your impressions is most likely system differences moreso than hearing differences. My K712 became a completely different animal on the Schiit Lyr 2 and I found it changed noticeably when I switch from the E12 to the EF2A, swapping tubes made a big difference too, then there are many other amps both SS and tube I heard on the K712. Some systems it's dark and bassy and other systems I found the headphone bright and on the thinner side, and some systems the midrange is quite forward. On the Lyr 2 the treble is smooth and non-fatiguing with great extension and no grain, the midrange is on the forward side, and the bass is solid, impactful, and has a lot of authority. The soundstage, clarity, and imaging all improved, its more of a solid sound with plenty of authority now than airy.


avroarrow said:


> I've got the HD598 and K702 65th Annies.  Comparing them side-by-side with music, the HD598 is more V-shaped (more bass & treble, less mids) sounding than the K702.65.  Also, I think the bass on the HD598 is looser than the AKGs because sounds kinda distorted compared to the AKG.  At least I think that's what looser vs controlled bass means.  The HD598 has more bass quantity but it doesn't sound as clear.  The AKGs sound more even across the entire range of bass, mids, and treble compared to the HD598 so don't expect more bass from the AKGs.  I personally prefer more neutral/even sounding headphones so I much prefer the K702.65.  Also you won't be able to properly drive the AKGs off the X-Fi Ti HD, you will need a decently power amp to drive them, a JDS O2, Schiit Magni, Vali, Fiio E09k and up.  I don't mean loud either, I mean fuller sounding.  The HD598 doesn't scale up as much as the AKGs do when you get more powerful amps.
> 
> Speaking of Alpha Dogs I got to try them at the store last week.  I was listening to them with unfamiliar music and it was driven with a Schiit Lyr 2.  Man do they sound nice.  Extremely spacious sounding for a closed headphone and super comfy even on my big head.  I was expecting them to have more bass but actually, they sounded almost like a closed version of my K702.65, very neutral sounding.  Still on the fence about getting them since they're like almost 2x the price of my Annies for a closed version of my Annies.  I was expecting them to sound more different.


 

 What is the main system you used when comparing both of these headphones? I found the K712 more forward or rather fuller in the mids than the HD 598 considering both have beefy systems behind them. The Lyr 2 is a really nice amp, I just got one. I need to listen to the Alpha Dogs on it if I ever have the chance, the K712 sounds great on the amp that's for sure.


----------



## AvroArrow

mad lust envy said:


> Your hearing is like the complete opposite of my hearing. The 598 is anything but recessed in the mids. It's know for its forward mids, actually. So kind of confused by your impression.
> 
> That and saying the Annie and Alpha Dog sound similar. That's... far from my impression. The Alpha Dog is considerably more neutrally balanced with a clear treble tilt, while the Annie is quite warm, though it is linear in its balance, just warm.
> 
> I dunno.


 
  
 The HD598 by themselves may not have recessed mids but comparing them side-by-side with the Annies (via Y-spitter cable on Asgard 2 with AudioEngine D1 as DAC, and flipping the volume up and down to level the volume while switching back and forth for comparison as best I could) they sound more V-shaped compared to the Annies.  That's all I was trying to get across to the other guy, don't expect the Annies to have more bass than the HD598 because that's one of the things he wanted to know.
  
 I did write "unfamiliar music, different amp, in the store, (15-20 minute audition I didn't write)", not 12 hours of super critical listening on the Alpha Dogs.  My hearing may be the complete opposite of yours because I have nowhere near even 1% of your listening experience nor do I have perfect hearing nor encyclopedic tomes of audiophile knowledge and I don't think I've made any claims to that effect. 
  
 In my opinion and from my limited listening experience with maybe a dozen different mid-fi headphones at best, my Annies are the most neutral/even/flat response curve sounding headphones that I've heard and that was the best comparison and impressions that I could make with the Alpha Dogs.  And isn't it an almost unwritten rule here to not make any claims about headphones that you haven't personally heard?  I have not heard stuff like the Mad Dogs, HD650 (tried them on, hurt my head & ears too much to even bother plugging them in), HD800, LCD-2, Hifiman HE-400, etc, etc, so I could not make any comparisons with any of those.  I just wrote my amateurish impressions (and obviously my opinions) on what I think the Alpha Dogs sound like compared to the best headphones that *I* have heard, which are my Annies.


----------



## MichaelJames99

All,
  
 Looking for the best headphones under $500 for movies.    I am also looking for matching amps you might have under $200
  
 My thought is you guys might have some good suggestions here since..in theory, surround gaming and surround movies probably have a lot in common?
  
 I am using the Recon3D as the surround processor.  Laptop and DirectTV for sources.I am looking at the HE-400, HE-400i, Denon AH-D600 and any others you may suggest.  On the amp side.. choices from Musical Fidelity, FiiO, Schiit, etc...
  
 Please let me know your thoughts!!!


----------



## Yethal

michaeljames99 said:


> All,
> 
> Looking for the best headphones under $500 for movies.    I am also looking for matching amps you might have under $200
> 
> ...


 
 Try the first post of this thread


----------



## conquerator2

I am getting pops running the U3 optical out via an external DAC [and amp] every 3 seconds. Sound - pop - pop, sound - pop - pop... Any ideas?


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> All,
> 
> Looking for the best headphones under $500 for movies.    I am also looking for matching amps you might have under $200
> 
> ...


 
 Anything on the first post that's highly rated for "fun" will be what you want.  Personally, I'd suggest the X1 and a cheap amp like the Magni or O2.  You'd don't need to spend $400 on headphones for movies over DirecTV.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> I am getting pops running the U3 optical out via an external DAC [and amp] every 3 seconds. Sound - pop - pop, sound - pop - pop... Any ideas?


 
 When I had issues with popping on my HRT Microstreamer, the first thing everyone said to check was the buffer size.  Overruns and underruns can cause popping.  Of course, this is assuming you're talking about music.  Not sure about games...


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> When I had issues with popping on my HRT Microstreamer, the first thing everyone said to check was the buffer size.  Overruns and underruns can cause popping.  Of course, this is assuming you're talking about music.  Not sure about games...


 
 Sorry, it's silence not popping, like music cuts. Those intervals are fixed. Music - pause/skip/silence - pause/skip/silence


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Sorry, it's silence not popping, like music cuts. Those intervals are fixed. Music - pause/skip/silence - pause/skip/silence


 
 My first bet would be USB power problem, try different port preferrably on the back of the case


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> My first bet would be USB power problem, try different port preferrably on the back of the case


 
 Did not help...
 I am thinking it has to be some sort of reclocking issue. I am using an Audio-GD DAC, I might add...


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Did not help...
> I am thinking it has to be some sort of reclocking issue. I am using an Audio-GD DAC, I might add...


 
 Does it occur between the songs or within them too? If between the songs only might be clock reset


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Does it occur between the songs or within them too? If between the songs only might be clock reset


 
 within. Every 3 seconds or so, 2 pauses happen. It's music for 3 seconds then pause then brief music and a second pause, like a double pause, every 3 seconds or so.
 The music between the pauses is clear, so no distortion.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> within. Every 3 seconds or so, 2 pauses happen. It's music for 3 seconds then pause then brief music and a second pause, like a double pause, every 3 seconds or so.
> The music between the pauses is clear, so no distortion.


 
 Check if this only occurs with songs that have variable bit rate. If that's not the problem tr feeding it some static


----------



## Evshrug

Random speculation rarely helps, but just in case, is there any firmware updates available for your U3?

 My Omni came in the box with old firmware, I didn't believe it would help but a firmware update solved a popping issue and enabled optical out for me. Not the same issue, but still worth checking!


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Random speculation rarely helps, but just in case, is there any firmware updates available for your U3?
> 
> My Omni came in the box with old firmware, I didn't believe it would help but a firmware update solved a popping issue and enabled optical out for me. Not the same issue, but still worth checking!


 
 there's none unfortunately and I am running the latest drivers.
 Might by down to my DAC... But I am hopeful it's solvable.


----------



## Change is Good

When I had the Music Streamer, I was still having a similar issue after a firmware update.

There is this application you can download, that automatically optimizes your computer to audiophile settings. An HRT rep referred me to it when I was having issues, so it may work for you.

Sending you a pm with the link, conq


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> When I had the Music Streamer, I was still having a similar issue after a firmware update.
> 
> There is this application you can download, that automatically optimizes your computer to audiophile settings. An HRT rep referred me to it when I was having issues, so it may work for you.
> 
> Sending you a pm with the link, conq


 
 What's the app called? I'm curious


----------



## MichaelJames99

Mad Lust Envy (or anyone else who has compared these),
 On another thread you had spoken about the HE-400 being better than the HE-4 in most ways.
 Would you say the HE-4 is better than the HE-400 for movies?
 Have you compared the HE-400i?
  
 Also, which amp are you using for testing purposes when you rank the headphones?  Schiit Magni? Vali? Agard 2?
 How do these compare these amps on the Hifiman line?


----------



## conquerator2

I'll do a HE-560/400i comparison shortly [this week and anytime during the following month]. I currently own the 560 and am receiving my demo 400i tomorrow....
 I am using an Audio GD SA-31SE/NFB7 combo for music and SA-31SE/Recon3D/TB DSP station for games.


----------



## Change is Good

Can you compare the 400i to the K612, as well?


----------



## martin vegas

Psn has been hacked all of sunday, bf4 ruined by hacking nerds!


----------



## DonQ

Hi, guys.
  
 I'm looking for a new headphone, and based on the OP's guide (great work, respect), the "AKG K612 Pro" seems to be the way to go. Still, I want to be sure if it's the option that suits me better. Here is what I'm looking for:
  
 - A full-sized, circumaural headphone.
 - To use in my room, with my computer.
 - Uses: 40% Music (Rock - Electro) /40% FPS games / 20% Movies
 - My budget is around 200$ and my soundcard is an Asus Xonar DX.
  
 Should I go for it or there's a better alternative?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## kman1211

I did a review of the AKG K712 Pro compared to the Beyerdynamic DT 150, in the end I found the DT 150 the better headphone overall. I do find the K712 better gaming overall although the K712 doesn't offer the powerful immersion factor the DT 150 has in games.


----------



## Stillhart

donq said:


> Hi, guys.
> 
> I'm looking for a new headphone, and based on the OP's guide (great work, respect), the "AKG K612 Pro" seems to be the way to go. Still, I want to be sure if it's the option that suits me better. Here is what I'm looking for:
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like a solid choice.  You might find yourself wanting a bit more amplification with the K612, tho.  The SoundMAGIC HP200 might be a decent alternative; it's a little more expensive but easier to drive.  If you can find a used X1 in your price range, that would work nicely too.


----------



## ricardovix

mad lust envy said:


> The K612 is better than the 598. The Q701 would be a more natural progression though.


 
  
 K612 is in the same "level" of hd598, no? I don't think that it would be an upgrade, but a change for another headphone of the same "level", or am I wrong?
  
 What about the HD650 vs K712 pro??
  
 The problem (I guess) is the hd650 impendance (300omhs).... I don't think that my soundcard can handle it....


----------



## appsmarsterx

ricardovix said:


> K612 is in the same "level" of hd598, no? I don't think that it would be an upgrade, but a change for another headphone of the same "level", or am I wrong?


 
  
 clearly 612pro is far more refined than hd598. not even a competition.


----------



## DonQ

kman1211 said:


> I did a review of the AKG K712 Pro compared to the Beyerdynamic DT 150, in the end I found the DT 150 the better headphone overall. I do find the K712 better gaming overall although the K712 doesn't offer the powerful immersion factor the DT 150 has in games.


 
  
 Do you know how these compare to DT770 Pro? Because that's the one I had.
  


stillhart said:


> Sounds like a solid choice.  You might find yourself wanting a bit more amplification with the K612, tho.  The SoundMAGIC HP200 might be a decent alternative; it's a little more expensive but easier to drive.


 
  
  I can't find this headphone for less than 300$ (Europe), and buying outside of EU sounds like too much trouble.
  
 Regarding the K612 Pro, OP said that an amp is essential. Sadly I know nothing about this topic. Do I need an amp considering my soundcard? (Asus Xonar DX) . If so, which one is better (price wise) for this headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Under $200, I think the K612 stands alone as the best I have reviewed, other than the MA900 which is no longer found at the price range. I find them to bne on equal footing with tradeoffs. I prefer the warmer tonality and exceptional comfort of the MA900, but the K612 is one of the most balanced, accurate headphones I have ever heard. The bass reaches impressively low, though it isn't as impactful as I'd like (the MA900 has more impact).

If you favor some warmth and comfort, try and find a used MA900. If not, the K612 is pretty...hard to pass up at it's price.

K612 Pro would be a pretty damn good headphone for rock/electro. It has plenty of bite. Definitely more ideal for that over the MA900 which is a tad bit slower and not as energetic.

Asn for HE-4 vs HE400, the HE-4 is a step above the HE400 overall, but I still prefer the bass and liveliness of the HE400 over the HE4. The HE400 has more body and impact, while the HE4 has more finesse and airiness. I just like the thicker sound of the HE400 morer though. The HE400 is polarizing though since it has the upper mid scoop which can make certain things sound muffled, as well as having a really big treble spike that can make other stuff fatiguing. The HE4 is much more behaved.

Overall, unless you know what to expect of the HE400 and what it does well is appealing to you, the HE4 is a definite winner overall. Just remember, it is a LOT more amp and source dependent. The wrong equipment will make it sound utterly lacking. The HE400 will more or less sound the same off everything you throw at it.


----------



## ricardovix

appsmarsterx said:


> clearly 612pro is far more refined than hd598. not even a competition.


 
  
 Good to know, I had no idea.


mad lust envy said:


> Under $200, I think the K612 stands alone as the best I have reviewed, other than the MA900 which is no longer found at the price range. I find them to bne on equal footing with tradeoffs. I prefer the warmer tonality and exceptional comfort of the MA900, but the K612 is one of the most balanced, accurate headphones I have ever heard. The bass reaches impressively low, though it isn't as impactful as I'd like (the MA900 has more impact).
> 
> If you favor some warmth and comfort, try and find a used MA900. If not, the K612 is pretty...hard to pass up at it's price.
> 
> ...


 
  


ricardovix said:


> K612 is in the same "level" of hd598, no? I don't think that it would be an upgrade, but a change for another headphone of the same "level", or am I wrong?
> 
> *What about the HD650 vs K712 pro??*
> 
> *The problem (I guess) is the hd650 impendance (300omhs).... I don't think that my soundcard can handle it....*


 
  
 Envy?? rsrs
  
 Just remembering, I want a headphone around US$ 400,00
  
 Thanks!


----------



## MichaelJames99

Is there a clear winner in the $300-500 category?  Something with a large soundstage, high fun factor, articulate highs, solid mids, impact lows and solid positional?  I am 80% movies, 20% gaming and I want to feel real depth and envelopment.
 Would be using a Schiit amp (I ordered both a Magni and Vali to compare, will be here Weds) to compare to my 10 year old stock Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 tube amp. Recon3D processor in hand, but could order Dolby Headphone unit like Astro Mixamp pro.
  
 Here are the ones I thought in the running (the only ones I have heard in person are the He-400):
*AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition*
AKG 712 Pro
HifiMan HE-400: Have these in hand.  Solid bass, good highs but can get fatiguing. (but I can EQ to highs) Soundstage is OK but not great.
Hifiman HE-400i (just hitting the market)
 Hifiman HE-4
*Philips Fidelio X1*
*Ultrasone Pro900 (although I have not been able to find under $500.. would love to find at $300-350)*
  
 Would like to hear how the AKG's compare to Hifiman in regards to movies and gaming.
 Also, any others I should be trying to get ahold of?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love how people ask for every single aspect of a headphone to be good. Not gonna happen.

X1 or K702 Annie would be my recommendations since movies are 80% of your need. I opt for the Annie due to thicker sounbd over the K712, but if you prefer more air over thicker sound, get the K712 instead. The X1 is great, if only lacking a little control in the bass. Otherwise, not much it does wrong.

If you can wait, the 400i may be a solid contender.

The HE-400 with velours are at least pretty solid, as long as you EQ down the treble. That is essentially all I'd need from them, since less treble = more chance for the upper mids to stand out.


----------



## Stillhart

ricardovix said:


> Good to know, I had no idea.
> 
> 
> Envy?? rsrs
> ...


 
 From what I gather, those two headphones have different sounds.  I'd suggest reading up on their respective sounds in other threads and then coming back here to see how they perform for gaming.  This is a massive website about headphones; MLE isn't the one and only person who can answer your questions.
  
 MLE isn't your personal advisor.  The guide he wrote up is already pretty detailed so don't EXPECT him to answer every little question you throw at him.  Have a little respect for all the work he already put into this.


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> Is there a clear winner in the $300-500 category?  Something with a large soundstage, high fun factor, articulate highs, solid mids, impact lows and solid positional?  I am 80% movies, 20% gaming and I want to feel real depth and envelopment.
> Would be using a Schiit amp (I ordered both a Magni and Vali to compare, will be here Weds) to compare to my 10 year old stock Musical Fidelity X-Can V2 tube amp. Recon3D processor in hand, but could order Dolby Headphone unit like Astro Mixamp pro.
> 
> Here are the ones I thought in the running (the only ones I have heard in person are the He-400):
> ...


 
  
 Out of all those, I've only heard the X1.  But I'd easily recommend it for your uses.  You don't really NEED crazy headphones for movies in the same way you would for music (IMO).  There's no need to spend $500 if a $250 headphone will do the same thing.


----------



## MichaelJames99

So would you say the HE-400 with velour pads are better for movies than the AKG's?  or how would you personally rank this group on movies? (or what are your personal top 2 for movies..sci fi and action type movies mostly.)   I can get the Hifiman HE-400, HE-4 and the HE-400i's for around $299 because or a credit I have with my dealer... so money could be a wash here.
  
 FYI: I really respect everyones opinion on this website.  I am really reaching out to everyone who has compared various headphones to get various opinions on combinations that work.  Its not just the headphones but combinations of headphones and amps and my source primarily being movies.  I truly appreciate all the insight.
 I wish I could just order 10 pairs of headphones and test them all.  I've tried to listen to all of you and short list and then maybe get 4 pairs and pick one.
  
 Thank you again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If movies are number 1, I easily recommend the X1 or HE400. I really enjoy the planar bass of the HE400, while the X1 has a bit of looseness in the bass in comparison, but is great overall. The X1 also has a very good soundstage, while the HE400 impresses more on imaging rather than soundstage size. Really, apples to oranges with tradeoffs.

The X1 is the safer bet since it's not polarizing like the HE400 can be. You either love the HE400 or hate it. The X1 is pretty well liked in general.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Thx MLE.  Would you say you prefer the 400's only with the velour pads?     I was going to get a pair of AKG 712's to compare to but I trust your opinions and I have spent a lot of time and money on shipping 
  
 Now it just comes down to HE-400 or the 400i's if I can get them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As many of you know by now, I absolutely can't stand pleather pads (more due to comfort than anything), so it's velour or bust. Nowadays, there are several options for Hifiman cans, some which I find more intriguing than others:

Focus pads
Focus A pads
Shure 1540 pads

These may be better or worse for the HE400 than the velour. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone post impressions for the 400 with these pads. The 1540 pads apparently work very well with the HE-4. I've used the 1540 pads before (on the 1840), so I would definitely check those out and see if they worked for the HE400. FWIH, they seem to retain a mix between pleather/velour properties.

The K712 is a really safe bet, as is the X1. You may end up hating the HE400, while I doubt you'd hate the 712 or X1.

There is no CLEAR winner here. There are tradeoffs with every headphone. So when someone says which headphone is the best at XXX price range, there is no right answer. We all have our preferences. I loved the 400 overall, but a few of my friends here were not as thrilled, which is totally understandable (upper mid recession + strong treble).


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> As many of you know by now, I absolutely can't stand pleather pads (more due to comfort than anything), so it's velour or bust. Nowadays, there are several options for Hifiman cans, some which I find more intriguing than others:
> 
> Focus pads
> Focus A pads
> ...


 
  
 I agree with MLE that people seem to love them or hate them.  @Evshrug hated the HE-400 because of the bad mids.  I suspect I won't like them either because of my preferences.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I ordered the AKG K712's just now.  They arrive on Weds.  I plan to do a A-B test with them and the HE-400 I have sitting next to me.
 I also ordered the Asgard 2 and Vali amps from Schiit.  I am wondering if any of you have paired the HE-400 or the AKG K712's with either of these?
  
 All of this arrives on Weds... should be a busy day


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> I ordered the AKG K712's just now.  They arrive on Weds.  I plan to do a A-B test with them and the HE-400 I have sitting next to me.
> I also ordered the Asgard 2 and Vali amps from Schiit.  I am wondering if any of you have paired the HE-400 or the AKG K712's with either of these?
> 
> All of this arrives on Weds... should be a busy day


 
  
 Both of those amps are popular with the Q701 crowd.  I suspect they'll both be just fine with the K712.


----------



## kman1211

donq said:


> Do you know how these compare to DT770 Pro? Because that's the one I had.


 

 The DT 150 is noticeably better than the DT 770 Pro, although it has been a while since I heard the DT 770 but the DT 770 never really was quite on-par with the K712, DT 880, etc. like the DT 150 is.


----------



## DonQ

If I understood correctly, the higher the impedance is, the greater is the need of an amp, and the DT150's is twice as much. I rather take my chances with the K612 Pro with no amp. While I do need the headphone with some urgency, I'm not willing to spend 100$+ on an amp. Not for now, at least. (I hope my soundcard helps, though).
  
 So, unless you guys have a last minute advice that's what I'm going to order.


----------



## Stillhart

donq said:


> If I understood correctly, the higher the impedance is, the greater is the need of an amp, and the DT150's is twice as much. I rather take my chances with the K612 Pro with no amp. While I do need the headphone with some urgency, I'm not willing to spend 100$+ on an amp. Not for now, at least. (I hope my soundcard helps, though).
> 
> So, unless you guys have a last minute advice that's what I'm going to order.


 
  
 Uhh... that impedance statement is all kinds of confused.  You will almost certainly want an amp for you K612 at some point, but you don't NEED it right away.


----------



## kman1211

donq said:


> If I understood correctly, the higher the impedance is, the greater is the need of an amp, and the DT150's is twice as much. I rather take my chances with the K612 Pro with no amp. While I do need the headphone with some urgency, I'm not willing to spend 100$+ on an amp. Not for now, at least. (I hope my soundcard helps, though).
> 
> So, unless you guys have a last minute advice that's what I'm going to order.


 
 That's actually not true at all, some of the hardest to drive headphones are lower ohms, AKGs are well known to be a bit power hungry. It also has to do with sensitivity and some headphones just sound better underamped than others. I have both the K612 and the DT 150, and the DT 150 sounds a bit better without an amp than the K612. You don't have to have an amp with either headphone but I personally suggest an amp in the long run.


----------



## conquerator2

kman1211 said:


> That's actually not true at all, some of the hardest to drive headphones are lower ohms, AKGs are well known to be a bit power hungry. It also has to do with sensitivity and some headphones just sound better underamped than others. I have both the K612 and the DT 150, and the DT 150 sounds a bit better without an amp than the K612. You don't have to have an amp with either headphone but I personally suggest an amp in the long run.


 
 cue HiFiMAN...


----------



## kman1211

conquerator2 said:


> cue HiFiMAN...


 

 True, orthos are very power hungry. My slightly modded T50RP sounded like crap until I got the Lyr 2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400 sounds damn good off just the E17. Bonus points for being able to reduce treble directly off the E17.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Question.... When testing headphones at home, is it a good idea to use the 7.1 Dolby tests out on youtube?
 I am using the Recon3D or Razer Synapse surround software on my laptop.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I really like the Dolby Headphone on the Xonar DX Cinema DH2 8.1 channel mixer 5.1.    Does the Astro Mixamp Pro or any of the other Console/stand alones sound this good?  If so, which one?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DH2 is what the Mixamp uses.


----------



## MichaelJames99

But does it sound as good as the Xonar DX card?


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> But does it sound as good as the Xonar DX card?


 
  
 It uses the exact same sound processing technology for virtual surround.  Are you asking if the amp and the DAC compare in general?  The amp and DAC in the Mixamp are nothing to write home about... they kinda suck.  I have no idea if the DX is any good or not so I couldn't say.  I suspect the DX will be on par or better if it's anything like the Sound Blaster Z, which is in the same price range.


----------



## jaysins

Impedance is a factor but other things, like the type of headphone, factors in as well. Electrostatics for example are harder to drive than their impedance would suggest because of the way they function. The AKG 712 do take more power to drive than you would think if you just looked at their specs and I have two amps/dacs that I enjoy with them ( Audio-gd NFB 11.32 and the O2). Both are inexpensive and provide plenty of oomph. The Mixamp definitely has some noise to it and is not silent like a good AMP as well not quite as clear especially in the lower and higher frequencies. I have owned the Xonar St and it wasn't as good as that though I'm not sure if that applies to the DX. I have the Mixamp Pro which, according to MLE, is the quietest of the bunch too.


----------



## calpis

michaeljames99 said:


> Question.... When testing headphones at home, is it a good idea to use the 7.1 Dolby tests out on youtube?
> I am using the Recon3D or Razer Synapse surround software on my laptop.


 
 nope, youtube only outputs in stereo.
  
 You can find/google 5.1 audio test files and you should get some AC3 files and stuff.


----------



## satori448

I hope this wasn't anybody on here...


----------



## Evshrug

satori448 said:


> I hope this wasn't anybody on here...




I mean, I had a job at his age, and friends and a sport and all that good stuff, but I felt my mom was close to doing that a few times. She would be the one to look psycho tho, her whole thing is she believes games turn people into remorseless serial killers.

I know another guy who used a Satori handle, what's that from/what did that mean?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Fidelio X1 for 149€ from Amazon France, mostly 7€ shipping to other EU.
  
 http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/ref=pe_828501_53233771_pe_ecg/?ASIN=B008ZW2T7M


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> I mean, I had a job at his age, and friends and a sport and all that good stuff, but I felt my mom was close to doing that a few times. She would be the one to look psycho tho, her whole thing is she believes games turn people into remorseless serial killers.
> 
> I know another guy who used a Satori handle, what's that from/what did that mean?


 

 Is that what stillhart looks like..,one way of getting rid of his xbox one games now that he can play in 1080p and 60fps on his ps4!


----------



## DonQ

kman1211 said:


> That's actually not true at all, some of the hardest to drive headphones are lower ohms, AKGs are well known to be a bit power hungry. It also has to do with sensitivity and some headphones just sound better underamped than others. I have both the K612 and the DT 150, and the DT 150 sounds a bit better without an amp than the K612. You don't have to have an amp with either headphone but I personally suggest an amp in the long run.


 
 Thanks for the clarification.
  
 I'm just trying to be consistent. To me, an amp was a simple gadget to get an extra performance boost out of the headphone, and paying the same amount for both didn't make sense (Kind of buying a second video card in SLI just to get a 10% performance boost). Of course this perception of mine was completely mistaken.
  
 I was about to say I will consider an amp for the K612 Pro, but then I noticed the post above... I could just simply go for those and forget about amps for the time being (Fidelio X1. Minimal amping according to the OP).


----------



## MichaelJames99

This is probable a dumb question but since the Astromix Amp and Mixamp Pro both have internal amps, is there an issue with double amplification if you go from source to Mixamp to Schiit Amp to headphones?
  
 Are the Mixamps the best for Dolby Headphone for a standalone unit?  I have my laptop, DirectTV (coax and spdif).
  
 Lastly, do any of the Mixamps support 5.1/7.1 thru the USB?
 Does the Recon3D support 5.1/thru the USB?  (I am streaming movies thru Amazon Prime on the laptop to the REcon3D and then the amp then headphones)


----------



## MichaelJames99

Any suggested sites I can download non-youtube test videos?  I want to test my Recon3D standalone processor that is hooked up USB to my laptop...
 Or can I use MLE's ones thru IE on page 1 of this thread?


----------



## AxelCloris

Hey folks, checking in from vacation. Just a quick update after Jude's latest product unveiling, I plan on getting the Blue Mo-Fi and seeing how they are for gaming before too long. I have to sell of a few things to fund the purchase but once those are gone I'll be placing my order.

MLE, the offer I made the other day still stands should you find yourself with a few bucks to spend.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

I see the AntLion ModMic 4.0 is on sale right now. Is it worth investing in to pair with my Q701? Anybody have experience with this combo?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Is that what stillhart looks like..,one way of getting rid of his xbox one games now that he can play in 1080p and 60fps on his ps4!


 
  
 1 - All my games are digital now.
 2 - Enough with the digs on the Xbox One.  I still like it significantly better than the PS4 and I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 900p or 30fps and 60fps.  I really don't give a flying **** about the power difference between the systems.  There's only one game that I want on the PS4 that I can't get on another system and even that is just a remastered version of a PS3 game.  The UI sucks, the PSN is unreliable, I get kicked out of party chat randomly, etc.  The PS4 is a ****ty purchase right now, even at he price I paid.  Literally the ONLY reason I got one is to play with friends who stupidly got one instead of an Xbone because it's more efficient for me to buy one console than for all my friends to buy a second (many of whom couldn't even if they wanted to).  Shall I go on or shall we all agree to drop the subject like mature adults?
  


michaeljames99 said:


> This is probable a dumb question but since the Astromix Amp and Mixamp Pro both have internal amps, is there an issue with double amplification if you go from source to Mixamp to Schiit Amp to headphones?
> 
> Are the Mixamps the best for Dolby Headphone for a standalone unit?  I have my laptop, DirectTV (coax and spdif).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Re: your first question, if there was an issue with the double-amping, it would have been mentioned in the guide.
  
 Re: your other questions, if you want something that works on console/set top boxes AND PC, the only option is the Sound Blaster Recon3D, which uses THX instead of Dolby Headphone.  The Recon will do audio over USB if you have it in PC mode (like an external sound card basically) and over SPDIF if you have it in PS/Xbox mode.
  


mista freeze 74 said:


> I see the AntLion ModMic 4.0 is on sale right now. Is it worth investing in to pair with my Q701? Anybody have experience with this combo?


 
  
 The problem with the ModMic IMO is that you still have to deal with a second cord.  If you're going to do that, I'd just as soon get the cheap clip-on mics that are $5 for 3 of em.  I have no issues with the SQ on those cheap mics, so the only reason I'd upgrade is for something like a Boompro, which fixes my cable clutter.


----------



## Change is Good

I thought I was the one who was easy LoL


----------



## DonQ

fegefeuer said:


> Fidelio X1 for 149€ from Amazon France, mostly 7€ shipping to other EU.
> 
> http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/ref=pe_828501_53233771_pe_ecg/?ASIN=B008ZW2T7M


 
 Well, that didn't last long. I didn't even have a chance to make the order. They are now for 300€.
  
 So back to the K621 Pro + Amp. Any decent/cheap amp to start with? (as in "my first amp ever")


----------



## DonQ

fegefeuer said:


> Fidelio X1 for 149€ from Amazon France, mostly 7€ shipping to other EU.


 
 Well, that didn't last long. I didn't even have a chance to make the order. They are now for 300€.
  
 So back to the K621 Pro + Amp. Any decent/cheap amp to start with? (as in "my first amp ever").


----------



## Stillhart

donq said:


> Well, that didn't last long. I didn't even have a chance to make the order. They are now for 300€.
> 
> So back to the K621 Pro + Amp. Any decent/cheap amp to start with? (as in "my first amp ever").


 
 Check the amp reviews at the bottom of the guide.  Any of those should work fine.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> 1 - All my games are digital now.
> 2 - Enough with the digs on the Xbox One.  I still like it significantly better than the PS4 and I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 900p or 30fps and 60fps.  I really don't give a flying **** about the power difference between the systems.  There's only one game that I want on the PS4 that I can't get on another system and even that is just a remastered version of a PS3 game.  The UI sucks, the PSN is unreliable, I get kicked out of party chat randomly, etc.  The PS4 is a ****ty purchase right now, even at he price I paid.  Literally the ONLY reason I got one is to play with friends who stupidly got one instead of an Xbone because it's more efficient for me to buy one console than for all my friends to buy a second (many of whom couldn't even if they wanted to).  Shall I go on or shall we all agree to drop the subject like mature adults?
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Only meant as a joke stillhart it wasn't a dig , get first light tomorrow and you will see what your ps4 can do!


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## DonQ

stillhart said:


> Check the amp reviews at the bottom of the guide.  Any of those should work fine.


 
 Thanks. I didn't noticed there was an amp section.
  
 Is the Fiio E11 any good (decent)? There's a good offer in the site where I'm going to buy the K612 Pro. Otherwise, I think it's gonna be the E9K (cost twice as much).


----------



## Stillhart

donq said:


> Thanks. I didn't noticed there was an amp section.
> 
> Is the Fiio E11 any good (decent)? There's a good offer in the site where I'm going to buy the K612 Pro. Otherwise, I think it's gonna be the E9K (cost twice as much).


 
 The E11 doesn't really have enough juice to drive the AKG's.  I use it on my Mixamp 5.8 to get a little more volume when needed, but it doesn't do anything to really improve the sound.


----------



## lenroot77

Just got my dt990s in the mail. I only had 5 minutes to try them out on diablo... Damn they sound great! They are going to be fun fun fun!


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> 1 - All my games are digital now.
> 2 - Enough with the digs on the Xbox One.  I still like it significantly better than the PS4 and I can't tell the difference between 1080p and 900p or 30fps and 60fps.  I really don't give a flying **** about the power difference between the systems.  There's only one game that I want on the PS4 that I can't get on another system and even that is just a remastered version of a PS3 game.  The UI sucks, the PSN is unreliable, I get kicked out of party chat randomly, etc.  The PS4 is a ****ty purchase right now, even at he price I paid.  Literally the ONLY reason I got one is to play with friends who stupidly got one instead of an Xbone because it's more efficient for me to buy one console than for all my friends to buy a second (many of whom couldn't even if they wanted to).  Shall I go on or shall we all agree to drop the subject like mature adults?
> 
> 
> ...




I braided the Modmic and Q701 cables together and it worked like a champ. Shortened the cords and turned them into a single cable at the same time. The Modmic is a damned nice microphone. The wife ended up with it and I'm contemplating getting another some time down the road.


----------



## Yethal

I don't get all the complaining about two cords instead of one. I have my modmic attached all the time to the headphones and haven't noticed any discomfort at all.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I don't get all the complaining about two cords instead of one. I have my modmic attached all the time to the headphones and haven't noticed any discomfort at all.


 
  
 For me, it's mostly because I tend to move my headphones between the PS4+Recon and Xbone+Mixamp and PC+Omni.  The more you move them around, the more you get annoyed at extra cables.  Admittedly, it's really NOT that big of a deal for me.  But not having to deal with it is definitely worth paying a little more for.
  
 On the other hand, I don't see why I'd pay extra for the ModMic, when the Neewer does the same thing as far as I can tell.


----------



## Yethal

Well, I bought it mostly because I like the idea of never ever needing another microphone, I ordered two extra base clasps with it so I'll just reattach it to the next headphones I buy (which probably won't be soon) and keep doing that until it breaks into pieces. I know I could've bought something much nicer than 598's with the money I would have saved by buing 3$ Newegg instead of 50$ Modmic but one day I'll buy some really glorious headphones and when that happens, I'll have equally glorious mic to accompany them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stillhart, not meaning to start an argument here... but how in god's green earth do you not see the difference between 30fps and 60fps? I mean... I just... people who say this boggle my mind. May as well be black and white compared to color to me. But then... there are those who are colorblind. 

It drives me bat***** crazy when Cod Ghosts goes from 60fps to 30fps at random.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Stillhart, not meaning to start an argument here... but how in god's green earth do you not see the difference between 30fps and 60fps? I mean... I just... people who say this boggle my mind. May as well be black and white compared to color to me. But then... there are those who are colorblind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I've read a lot of stuff on both sides of this.  Some people seem to be a lot more keyed into it than others.  I gather that it's mainly FPS players who notice it most because apparently it affects twitch aiming pretty significantly?  I'm nowhere near that level of play (I'm just god awful at CoD, not much better at BF).  Keep in mind that I didn't play a single FPS between Goldeneye on N64 and the original Borderlands.  Also I've been mainly a PC gamer so I'm used to a pretty crazy variety in quality based on my current system specs, etc.
  
 Now obviously, I can tell when the frame rate drops below 30, but most games are locked at 30 minimum on either system.
  
 EDIT - Okay check this out:  http://30vs60.com/index.html
  
 Makes it pretty easy to see the difference after a while of staring at both.  But I mean... I had to stare at both for a while to see the difference.  Yes, 60fps seems to be smoother, looks a little better.  Seems to be a really marginal improvement overall though...


----------



## xero404

i'm PCmasterrace snob and prefer to game in 120fps lol


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## IBIubbleTea

xero404 said:


> i'm PCmasterrace snob and prefer to game in 120fps lol


 
 144hz, Do you even?


----------



## xero404

ibiubbletea said:


> 144hz, Do you even?



Wish my korean ips overclocked reliably. My new incoming G sync Asus ROG swift should fit the bill tho lol. That battlefield friends vid is pretty funny.


----------



## Stillhart

xero404 said:


> Wish my korean ips overclocked reliably. My new incoming G sync Asus ROG swift should fit the bill tho lol. That battlefield friends vid is pretty funny.


 
 Are there more than one brand available for G sync yet?  I want it, but I'm not interested in paying more simply because Asus is the only one making it...  Oooh, maybe they'll have some to play with at the Nvidia booth at PAX!


----------



## IBIubbleTea

Quote:


xero404 said:


> Wish my korean ips overclocked reliably. My new incoming G sync Asus ROG swift should fit the bill tho lol. That battlefield friends vid is pretty funny.


 
 Lucky! Only if I had a job I would blow my money like that...
   
 Quote:
  


stillhart said:


> Are there more than one brand available for G sync yet?  I want it, but I'm not interested in paying more simply because Asus is the only one making it...  Oooh, maybe they'll have some to play with at the Nvidia booth at PAX!


 
 Of course ASUS isn't the only company that is partnered with NVIDIA's G sync technology, http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq
  
 "Q: What display companies are planning on introducing G-SYNC monitors?
A: Many of the industry’s leading monitor manufacturers have already included G-SYNC in their product roadmaps for 2014. Among the first planning to roll out the technology are Acer, AOC, ASUS, BenQ and Phillips."

 

 I'm really looking forward to FreeSync as it's not suppose to cost as much as G Sync and might be for everyone later on.


----------



## jaysins

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2466180/lg-to-unveil-curved-ultrawide-monitor-at-ifa.html I really want the curved one. I just hope it's refresh rate and input lag are decent.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna go off topic here, because I'm interested in gsync myself.

Has the way gsync truly works been published yet? I'm no techie, and even then, I believe I have it figured out. I literally thought it out in my head for like... an hour, for no reason.

120hz display is necessary, and backlight scanning tricks don't work at the same time (based off Linustechtips video of the Asus monitor). My deduction/hypothesis.:

1. As Nvidia stated, Gsync will only go up to the displays max refresh rate.

2. In order for a smooth playback when fps dips below 60, the display is actually speeding up and doubling the image. I.e.: if fps dips to 45fps, the display is refreshing at 90hz to capture the 45fps image twice. The reason why I believe this is 100% true is because IF the display dips to native 45hz to capture 45fps without stutter, you would get some pretty unbearable flickering (try watching a movie in 48hz mode on a plasma... the light flicker is unbearable). Going over the 60hz line ensures that flicker is reduced. I took my Plasma's 96hz mode for 24hz content as a sort of example. What my TV does for 24hz Blu-ray content is to repeat the same frame 3 times in a second to get that film cadence without the crazy flicker or 3:2 pulldown judder, that happens when 24fps content plays at 60hz.

3. The reason backlight scanning (which effectively makes a display behave like its refreshing at double it's 120hz display refresh, reducing motion blur) won't work in conjunction with gsync, is because backlight scanning (for right now), is limited to working in between the displays innate refresh rate, so gsync's sporadic/altering refresh could at times clash with the backlight scan and mess up the image (this is my assumption). I have heard that gsync monitors have BOTH gsync and backlight scanning, but you can only use one or the other, leading to believe my theory is accurate.

4. The reason gsync only smoothens out lower than 60fps up to a certain point is because if the framerate gets to low, the screen would display the a frame before and after AT THE SAME TIME. That's why there is a report of ghosting once fps goes below a certain point (I believe it was low 40s or less).

5. (THIS IS PROBABLY WRONG, BUT I THINK ITS POSSIBLE). So why does slightly less than 60fps to high 40s still look like 60? This is the tricky part, but I believe they are using motion interpolation to fill in the gap between the current fps and the native signal. A sort of interpolation like the one currently used in basically all modern tvs that make content appear more live-like. Like movies looking like the behind the scenes, games that run at 30fps looking more like 60fps. Motion interpolation is when a frame gets created between 2 actual frames, which is why 30fps can look like 60fps at times. It isn't perfect, however. Anyways, I believe this may be part of the gsync equation and why they can make 45fps (for example) appear to look like 60fps.

6. The one main thing I don't understand is how framerates ABOVE 60fps are handled. Is the display refreshing at the higher framerates, up to 120-144hz (whatever the display natively runs at, despite most displays only accepting up to a 60hz-72hz signal). AFAIK, displays accept to 72hz signals only, regardless of how much the gpu is rendering. Whether this caps what gsync does at framerates above that, I'm not sure.

7. One thing I don't understand is how they managed to do all this and REDUCE input lag. I do understand that inputs are displayed as soon as it happens, unlike before, where Vsync would only display an input command after the full frame was complete (once ever 60 seconds, and if the input is done in between a frame, you would have to wait a frame and then some). Im definitely in the black on this. 

Guys, this is just assumptions from someone who only knows about TVs, and less about computer displays. I assume that domestically, 72hz is the HIGHEST regresh rate domestically sold. All the 120hz-144hz displays are just doubling those signals for reduced blurring, and not actually displaying native 120+ signals.


----------



## Yethal

It's much simpler than that, they are just matching monitor's refresh rate to the game framerate, basically the opposite of what v-sync does


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know that. However, I dont see it being that simple. You're not understanding what I'm saying. People have been saying that even framerates as low as mid 40s are as smooth as if they played at 60fps. 

And again, going off what I know about 48hz... if the display matched the mid 40fps... you would get REALLY bad flickering (seen on projector screens and plasmas when displaying low fps content natively at 48hz). Trust me on that. I have not heard one report on screen flicker with gsync monitors, meaning that its probably matching the signal's frequency, and if its below 60fps, it is probably doubling it, to avoid flickering.

a few examples of what i think gsync is doing...

30fps is shown twice (this is normal behavior on all displays) since forever.

43fps is being displayed twice at 86hz.

50fps is displayed twice at 100hz.

Only once the fps has hit above 60fps/72fps, does it start displaying an image once. So for example: 85fps is shown at 85fps.This is my theory. Once it hits the monitor's limit of 120/144hz, it won't show any more frames, regardless of the gpu rendering 648479fps or whatever.

As diplay enthusiasts know, 120hz displays have been for the past many years since its inception, only accepting up to 60hz, and just doubling that image. It has NOT accepted native 120hz signals.

Whether this has changed recently, to actually ALLOW the full 120fps to be fully displayed... I don't know.

That brings up a question as how the Hobbit at 48fps hasn't been known to flicker. I assumed that in order to avoid flickering, the image is shown twice per second at 96hz. I thought there is no conceivable way 48fps could be shown natively without people complaining about flicker. That is, unless 48fps native, without a 24fps signal being doubled doesn't flicker. Then all my assumptions are wrong.  I KNOW Hobbit was shot at 48fps. That doesnt mean that the projector displaying the movie itself isnt just doubling that to reduce flicker. I don't even know any more. It's new territory, no matter how you slice it.

I really wanna know what is the cause of gsync ghosting once fps hits too low. Again, I assume it's because the display is showing the before and after frame at the same time. I would totally test gsync with dxtory and limit the framerate to specific values to see where the problem of ghosting starts occuring.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

​What I failed to realize is that 48hz modes are ONLY in projectors and plasma. Also, something like the Hobbit at 48fps was shot with DIGITAL cameras, meaning that it's not reliant on the same capture method as film which was light based. That's probanly the reason why there is no flickering...

I'm an idiot.

Even so, it doesn't explain how a low framerate with gsync on an LCD/LED manages to look as smooth as 60fps.

The technology intriques me.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> As diplay enthusiasts know, 120hz displays have been for the past many years since its inception, only accepting up to 60hz, and just doubling that image. It has NOT accepted native 120hz signals.


 
  
 Maybe in years-behind-the-times HDTV land, that's the case due to HDMI bandwidth limitations, but PC monitors have been true 120 Hz and beyond since the days of CRTs. It's part of the reason I'm so fond of my GDM-FW900.
  
 As Yethal pointed out, you're really overthinking this. G-SYNC basically lets the GPU control the monitor refresh cycles instead of having to time its frames to the monitor. It only repeats frames in the fashion you're thinking if the framerate drops below 30 FPS. Refresh rate mishmashes are no longer a problem because with G-SYNC, *all refresh rates in the range of 30 Hz to the monitor's maximum are effectively native, no interpolation needed.* That's the entire point.
  
 While you're concerned about flicker, I'm pretty sure G-SYNC is designed with persistent display types like LCD in mind. The results on a CRT, if you couldn't maintain 80-90 FPS, would be downright headache-inducing, never mind that G-SYNC compatible CRTs will never exist.
  
 Also keep in mind you're looking at this from an HDTV standpoint, where G-SYNC may very well never exist in the market if they can't already get 120 Hz video inputs right for PC use. This is something exclusively for PC gamers who are likely buying monitors to match their super-expensive graphics cards' capabilities. They already had real 120 Hz, 144 Hz, even 160 Hz, but now they don't have to worry about screen tearing (when two frames are partially displayed during a monitor refresh cycle) or the latency of V-syncing to the monitor's refresh rate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I corrected myself. My main brainfart was that I was considering flicker, forgetting that's not an LCD issue. That's what I get for being so pro-Plasma all the time, lol.

WOW, REAL 120HZ. So much want. I don't see how it can look better than 60fps in a motion standpoint, but I do see the benefits in terms of blur reduction (as I know the benefit is clearly evident, especially with backlight scanning displays that effectively multiply the blur reduction properties of faster refreshes. Gone are the days when LCD/LED were a blurry mess, lagging behind Plasma. 120hz tvs with effective backlight scanning can display the full motion res.... though so far, doing this adds SEVERE input lag.

its too bad, since LCD in its best modes for input lag are blurry as heck at 300 lines, while the worst plasma still does at least 700.

Of course, im referring to televisions. I don't know much of anything about monitors, and their specific properties, especially in terms of high refreshes.


----------



## DonQ

Hey, guys.
  
 I just ordered the headphone and an amp. At the end I went for the K612 Pro + Fiio e12. Since you can use this amp with the iPhone and such, which is something I can't stand (default headphone and no amp), it is a great extra. I won't have the amp until the next week, so I can take my time to try the headphone with no amp and see the difference.
  
 Thank you all for the help, especially to OP for this great guide.


----------



## martin vegas

I think Gsync shows the image at what the frame rate is being processed at,if the pc drops fps as the action hots up with loads of explosions happening at once the Gsync drops it's refresh rate to match the pcs fps!


----------



## lttlfld

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I corrected myself. My main brainfart was that I was considering flicker, forgetting that's not an LCD issue. That's what I get for being so pro-Plasma all the time, lol.
> 
> WOW, REAL 120HZ. So much want. I don't see how it can look better than 60fps in a motion standpoint, but I do see the benefits in terms of blur reduction (as I know the benefit is clearly evident, especially with backlight scanning displays that effectively multiply the blur reduction properties of faster refreshes. Gone are the days when LCD/LED were a blurry mess, lagging behind Plasma. 120hz tvs with effective backlight scanning can display the full motion res.... though so far, doing this adds SEVERE input lag.
> 
> ...




Most of your analysis sounds right to me. Here is a good article on "how it works:"
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review

I recommend looking at the graphical representations of what is going on, but here's a quick quote that summarizes 

"G-Sync works by manipulating the display’s VBLANK (vertical blanking interval). VBLANK is the period of time between the display rasterizing the last line of the current frame and drawing the first line of the next frame. It’s called an interval because during this period of time no screen updates happen, the display remains static displaying the current frame before drawing the next one."

I believe this is pretty consistent with what MLE has written above, just with different words and graphs. Still doesn't explain what happens when FPS > refresh rate.

A good impression by someone at tweak town who I assume is running 2x780ti (or similar):
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/6608/hitting-the-g-spot-with-nvidia-s-g-sync-on-the-asus-rog-swift-pg278q/index3.html

A LOT of this sounds somewhat subjective. It is difficult to quantify "smoothness," but the review above claims that, due to previously only being able to maintain 80-100 fps on a 120hz monitor, the g-sync at 144hz on battlefield 4 with whatever system he's got is making a meaningful difference in his gameplay experience.

Here's another article that appears to be claiming g-sync helps even if you are already rendering high FPS (FPS>refresh):
http://techreport.com/review/26870/asus-rog-swift-pg278q-g-sync-monitor-reviewed/3

Here you can see that guild wars 2 at 240fps running at 144hz looks "smoother" with g-sync on a frame by frame basis


----------



## Stillhart

ibiubbletea said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Are there more than one brand available for G sync yet?  I want it, but I'm not interested in paying more simply because Asus is the only one making it...  Oooh, maybe they'll have some to play with at the Nvidia booth at PAX!
> ...


 
  
 That's not what I was asking.  I know there are more people partnered, but last time I checked there were only like 2 models available for purchase and they were both from Asus and both extremely overpriced.  A little Amazon research shows that BenQ and Philips both have models out now too and Asus prices are a lot more reasonable these days.  That's pretty good news...
  
 And it looks like Asus has an IPS panel with G Sync in the works too.  Drool...
  
 Now if they would start making 19x12 monitors again instead of 19x10, I won't have to DOWNGRADE just to get a newer monitor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I want to know, is what happens when say... a game runs at 32fps. I mean, I'm still not convinced that the display is matching such a low fps, since even on an LCD, that can't possibly be a comfortable refresh for our eyes. This is why is still believe it is doubling such a low framerate and running the refresh at 64hz instead.


----------



## RyanDJ1

I've got a challenge for you all. Help me find a headphone with these requirements 

I am looking for a gaming headphone that is great for open world games. I want the world to feel really open like I'm really there. I want to hear wind and rain beautifully with crickets in the background and wildlife sounds like birds etc. I want the sounds to be natural and of good quality. I'm an open world and RPG lover so it's mainly towards those types of games. My ideal sound would basically need to replicate air, like I mentioned being in an open field of Forrest and nothing but pure air and a Pureness to the sound as you would expect outside.

I want full immersion and every sound to be appreciated. I have a Mixamp pro and console. Soundstage needs to really large. I've been looking at the 

K712
Q701
HD600

How are these for my uses?

Please help me 

Thanks!


----------



## theragekage

ryandj1 said:


> I've got a challenge for you all. Help me find a headphone with these requirements
> 
> I am looking for a gaming headphone that is great for open world games. I want the world to feel really open like I'm really there. I want to hear wind and rain beautifully with crickets in the background and wildlife sounds like birds etc. I want the sounds to be natural and of good quality. I'm an open world and RPG lover so it's mainly towards those types of games. My ideal sound would basically need to replicate air, like I mentioned being in an open field of Forrest and nothing but pure air and a Pureness to the sound as you would expect outside.
> 
> ...




Take this for what it's worth considering I only have heard (and currently own) the q701s. Soundstage is going to be pretty good with all of those headphones. The Q's are very detailed and spacious, and if you want a more "immersive" experience and add a bit more bass you could always do one of the many simple mods that are reversible and add a bit more bass. They do benefit from an amp but since it sounds like you are only playing single player games for the most part your mixamp should be fine to drive them.

I'm sure someone else with a bit more expertise with the other headphones will be able to provide you with a bit more insight.


----------



## AxelCloris

ryandj1 said:


> I've got a challenge for you all. Help me find a headphone with these requirements
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 From your list the K712 would be the best at what you're wanting as long as you have a good amp to drive it. I personally would scratch off the HD600 if you're looking for a big, spacious airy sound. They have a decent soundstage but it's not as big as the K712's or even the Q701's going off memory. The HD600 has a nice and thick sound so some of the macro details in games can get lost. The HD600 is incredible for immersion, don't get that wrong. But I don't feel that it's as big of a sound as the other two you've considered.
  
 Edit: I spent many hours in Skyrim using the HD650. Immersion was wonderful but the soundstage wasn't super large when using Dolby Headphone and positional queues could have been better to add to the realism.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Q701, K612 would be my recommendations. Or a Stax SR407 if you could afford Stax. It's treble is... just otherworldy. So crisp, so vibrant, without the tizziness of standard bright headphones.

I think the K712 is a bit too warm to represent what he is asking for, though buying K702 pads and using them on the 712 would be ideal.


----------



## Stillhart

ryandj1 said:


> I've got a challenge for you all. Help me find a headphone with these requirements
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I hate to say it, since so many people here love DH, but if you don't want your nature and crickets to sound like they're in a bathroom, I suggest you get a Recon.  I don't mind DH and you get used to the weird reverb after a while, but it's definitely there.  If you want the most natural nature sounds, the reverb has got to go.
  
 Regarding your headphones, It'd say grab an AKG and an amp.  I <3 my Q701 and the K712 is supposed to sound even better if you can afford it.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> The Q701, K612 would be my recommendations. Or a Stax SR407 if you could afford Stax. It's treble is... just otherworldy. *So crisp, so vibrant, without the tizziness of standard bright headphones.*
> 
> I think the K712 is a bit too warm to represent what he is asking for, though buying K702 pads and using them on the 712 would be ideal.


 
 Oh Mad, you'd love the 560... The 400i is letting me down a bit in the treble [the lack of air is really hurting it sometimes]. The bass difference between the two is also pretty small... I think I might prefer the 560 because you get more texture, detail and depth in exchange for a bit less punch...
 Both amazing headphones at their respectable MSRPs...
 Regardless, I haven't heard the LCD-2/HE-400, but the 560/400i will not probably give you that kind of bass presence, I am afraid...
  
 This is just a taste of what's coming in the fully-fledged comparison


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> Oh Mad, you'd love the 560... The 400i is letting me down a bit in the treble [the lack of air is really hurting it sometimes]. The bass difference between the two is also pretty small... I think I might prefer the 560 because you get more texture, detail and depth in exchange for a bit less punch...
> Both amazing headphones at their respectable MSRPs...
> Regardless, I haven't heard the LCD-2/HE-400, but the 560/400i will not probably give you that kind of bass presence, I am afraid...
> 
> This is just a taste of what's coming in the fully-fledged comparison


 
  
 I too prefer the 560 from what I head in Chicago. Granted it was before the 400i was completely finalized but it was close to the end of development, so that could change my opinions. I preferred the lowered bass of the 560 because it allowed the mids to come through better and the detail in the treble range was a noticeable improvement. At that time the 400i was just a bit too "fun" for my tastes. I'll have to hear a production version to see if that holds true. The 400i also seemed a tad more sibilant than the 560 when I compared them side-by-side.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I too prefer the 560 from what I head in Chicago. Granted it was before the 400i was completely finalized but it was close to the end of development, so that could change my opinions. I preferred the lowered bass of the 560 because it allowed the mids to come through better and the detail in the treble range was a noticeable improvement. At that time the 400i was just a bit too "fun" for my tastes. I'll have to hear a production version to see if that holds true. The 400i also seemed a tad more sibilant than the 560 when I compared them side-by-side.




Yup, the treble is more subdued but there's a certain range (might be upper midrange) that might cause some hardness or harshness. 
I'll say that the key advantagesthe 560 has is naturalness, openness and effortlessnes.
Sometimes the 400i mids might be a bit too shouty, some instruments (guitar, violin, piano,...) might lack that air as they linger in the air less. The bass might mask that tiny bit of detail, the treble could use a bit more presence or the soundstage might feel a bit cramped...
Mind you, it is not nowhere near to a point that'd deter just in direct comparison. 
The 560 is just that more expensive, polished ruby,while the 400i is just that ruby with a few rough edges, albeit cheaper. 
Both deserve praise for what they do brilliantly and I'd recommend both in a heart beat (even for gaming), the 400i is a really good value IMO.it still totally destroys most if not all the competition, although the soundstage is definitely on the smaller size.
More detailed comparisons coming later


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no. I prefer less treble nowadays. I'm simply saying if expansive, airy soundstage is a must, good treble is helpful. I'm sure the 560 beats the 400i in that regard. That being said, I prefer a softer, more intimate approach to my headphones nowadays for my music, as in bass and mids THEN treble. Virtual surround takes care of soundstage deficiencies for movie/gaming use, enough for me anyways.

I'm 100% positive I'd prefer the 400i over the 560, same way i prefer the Mad Dog over the Alpha Dog, despite knowing the Alpha Dog is better overall. It's also the reaosn I prefer the Annie over the K712. The Annie is more intimate, while the K712 has more soundstage and airiness at the expense of a little body and forwardness.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> No, no. I prefer less treble nowadays. I'm simply saying if expansive, airy soundstage is a must, good treble is helpful. I'm sure the 560 beats the 400i in that regard. That being said, I prefer a softer, more intimate approach to my headphones nowadays for my music, as in bass and mids THEN treble. Virtual surround takes care of soundstage deficiencies for movie/gaming use, enough for me anyways.
> 
> I'm 100% positive I'd prefer the 400i over the 560, same way i prefer the Mad Dog over the Alpha Dog, despite knowing the Alpha Dog is better overall. It's also the reaosn I prefer the Annie over the K712. The Annie is more intimate, while the K712 has more soundstage and airiness at the expense of a little body and forwardness.




Very well. Then I guess you're set... They're brilliant headphones still, so you'll definitely love them.
Everyone will.
Can't go wrong really.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*Nevermind, I got too excited and forgot about the lack of AC3 input.  *
  
  
  
*"SBX Pro Studio can be switched off, when listening to high-quality lossless audio, so that you may get to enjoy the songs unprocessed, in the way you desire."*
  
*OPTICAL IN!*
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/732171/creative-sound-blaster-e5-headphone-amp-usb-dac-with-otg-toslink-aptx-recording-more#post_10830957


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, it's still useless for console gamers? BAD FORM, Creative. WOW. I was about to sing Hallelujah...


----------



## PurpleAngel

ryandj1 said:


> I want full immersion and every sound to be appreciated. I have a Mix-amp pro and console. Sound stage needs to really large. I've been looking at the
> K712
> Q701
> HD600
> ...


 
  
 I really doubt the Mix-amp will be able to fully drive the 300-Ohm HD600, without also getting a dedicated headphone amplifier to daisy chain off the Mix-amp.


----------



## appsmarsterx

ryandj1 said:


> I want full immersion and every sound to be appreciated. I have a Mixamp pro and console. Soundstage needs to really large. I've been looking at the
> 
> 
> Please help me
> ...


 
  
 for just gaming, (without an amp) I d just take something like ma900,hd598, if you need more immersion you can try Fidelio X1..   something like hd600 could be an overkill for just gaming imo..


----------



## theragekage

Has anyone seen anything on the Turtle Beach TAC recently? I can't seem to find many details on it other than it is supposed to release later this year and supports DTS. People keep saying it is going to be a mixamp killer but I am trying to understand why that is.


----------



## Stillhart

theragekage said:


> Has anyone seen anything on the Turtle Beach TAC recently? I can't seem to find many details on it other than it is supposed to release later this year and supports DTS. People keep saying it is going to be a mixamp killer but I am trying to understand why that is.


 
 Because if it's the same in every way as the Mixamp but uses DTSHX instead of DH, Mixamp will be dead.  DTS Headphone X is way better.  From the spec sheet it seems to do everything else the Mixamp does, and even includes bluetooth pairing so you can mix your phone with in-game sounds.  Since the Mixamp doesn't have particularly impressive SQ, it's not a stretch to imagine the TAC will be on par.
  
 As to hearing anything about it, I haven't.  But I'll be sure to do some digging at PAX this weekend.  TB should have a booth...


----------



## theragekage

stillhart said:


> Because if it's the same in every way as the Mixamp but uses DTSHX instead of DH, Mixamp will be dead.  DTS Headphone X is way better.  From the spec sheet it seems to do everything else the Mixamp does, and even includes bluetooth pairing so you can mix your phone with in-game sounds.  Since the Mixamp doesn't have particularly impressive SQ, it's not a stretch to imagine the TAC will be on par.
> 
> As to hearing anything about it, I haven't.  But I'll be sure to do some digging at PAX this weekend.  TB should have a booth...




Awesome to hear. I was interested based on DTS alone but didn't realize it also does Bluetooth pairing, pretty cool. I am intrigued to see the price point as well. Enjoy PAX and let us know if you hear anything!


----------



## jaysins

Fingers crossed that Turtle Beach does a good job with that one.


----------



## Evshrug

Guys,
I may make a payday impulse buy, but I need help. Which Marantz receiver did Mad have/would I want? I've finally accepted that my entry-level Yamaha does some weird sucking-out of the lower mids (audible in all my hp and speakers) and generally holds back the audio quality, and eBay prices are really attractive.

If I'm just being crazy though, feel free to talk me out of it.

Grenade Out!


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Guys,
> I may make a payday impulse buy, but I need help. Which Marantz receiver did Mad have/would I want? I've finally accepted that my entry-level Yamaha does some weird sucking-out of the lower mids (audible in all my hp and speakers) and generally holds back the audio quality, and eBay prices are really attractive.
> 
> If I'm just being crazy though, feel free to talk me out of it.
> ...


 
 Bah, get a Xbone!


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Bah, get a Xbone!



B-b-b-but the Destiny love, audio/video quality support, the more interesting non-FPS exclusives for the last generation... And reselling the PS4 would be a waste, downloaded games already have no resale value


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> B-b-b-but the Destiny love, audio/video quality support, the more interesting non-FPS exclusives for the last generation... And reselling the PS4 would be a waste, downloaded games already have no resale value


 
 Uhh, I don't think you know how much a Marantz receiver costs.  You could easily buy an Xbone without selling the PS4 for the price of a super low-end Marantz.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> B-b-b-but the Destiny love, audio/video quality support, the more interesting non-FPS exclusives for the last generation... And reselling the PS4 would be a waste, downloaded games already have no resale value


 

 Check the what hifi site out..they review loads of av receivers..sony do a good one it's called *STR*-_*DN1050*_. P.s you could get one with dolby atmos built into to it!


----------



## Evshrug

Is the SR 5600 good? I know it has DH. only have 16 Hr left


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Is the SR 5600 good? I know it has DH. only have 16 Hr left


 
 As my very first A-V receiver, I was and continue to be highly impressed with this reasonably priced receiver. I've always wanted to own a Marantz product and finally I have it. Build quality is excellent. Solid and heavy. For only $600.00, you do get a great deal of features, power, versatility, and most importantly, great sound. I'm driving B&W speakers with a very good subwoofer which makes the Marantz sound terrific. B&W's are easy to drive. I wouldn't recommend this receiver if you're driving 6 and 4 ohm rated speakers with low sensitivtiy.

 I must admit I was fooled at the time that the unit can produce 90 watts x 7 all channels driven. That's not the case. Marantz guarantees 70% of its rated power into 8 ohms when in surround sound mode. The 90 watts is produced when playing in stereo or two channel. I found this out later. But I still love the unit and am still learning about its features and capabilities after all this time. So much to know. I'm primarily a music listener (and DVD concert watcher) and listen mostly in surround sound using (Dolby Pro Logic III Music or Neo 6: Music). Dending on the CD being played of course, this unit can deliver and blow you away. Playing Lee Ritenour's latest CD called "Smoke N Mirrors" for example, it's almost as if the band is right there in your listening room!! It has all of the most current surround sound modes as of mid 2006 but no HDMI video circuity. I honestly don't care about that anyway. Movies and concert DVD's … read morein 5.1 sound stupendous!!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

What were you looking for when it came to an AV receiver? I have the sony STR-DN840 and its pretty loaded. I Always wanted to calibrate it well though....I think it might be my speakers that i am having an issue with because mids are about non existent.


----------



## Evshrug

Martin,
Don't look at the price that receiver is going for on eBay right now, instead think of all the hours of enjoyment it's given you over the years and continues to do so 

I just noticed the lack of HDMI circuitry... Just as well though, cuz I also noticed today was my 6th anniversary with my girlfriend, so instead I went out for dinner at a nice restaurant out on a patio. Pretty expensive for a meal, and one night, but I enjoyed it and loving my girlfriend is certainly not an impulse (at least not any more, now it's as natural as breathing).

BNFrank,
I also wondered if my problem was also from poor calibration, but after a few years I just don't think I will figure it out. I know it's not a perfect system, but I'll pick up a model with Audyssey EQ next time I get a receiver so hat it can calibrate itself. And BTW, Nameless and Stillhart probably know a lot more about Foobar than I, who is mainly a content Mac user.




For myself though, I'll soon be picking up a Blue Snowball mic for streaming, maybe she can guest stream with me again sometime as it was really fun streaming The Last of Us together.


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> Because if it's the same in every way as the Mixamp but uses DTSHX instead of DH, Mixamp will be dead.  DTS Headphone X is way better.  From the spec sheet it seems to do everything else the Mixamp does, and even includes bluetooth pairing so you can mix your phone with in-game sounds.  Since the Mixamp doesn't have particularly impressive SQ, it's not a stretch to imagine the TAC will be on par.
> 
> As to hearing anything about it, I haven't.  But I'll be sure to do some digging at PAX this weekend.  TB should have a booth...


 
  
 DTS Headphone X draws its main strength from embedded binaural "info" in DTS-HD streams. That's one of the most exciting features I'm looking forward to, but of course it's also dependant on the engineer's will to implement it. 
 As for the TAC. 300 Dollars and only 640kbs AC3? That's dissapointing. The SQ needs to be hugely better to justify that price and accept the limited format input. 
  
 Still mad about Creative f up the E5.


----------



## RyanDJ1

mad lust envy said:


> The Q701, K612 would be my recommendations. Or a Stax SR407 if you could afford Stax. It's treble is... just otherworldy. So crisp, so vibrant, without the tizziness of standard bright headphones.
> 
> I think the K712 is a bit too warm to represent what he is asking for, though buying K702 pads and using them on the 712 would be ideal.


 

 Thanks for the recommendations man. Just a quickie how would the Senn HD598 be for my recommendations? Can get a pair pretty cheap but if they are not suitable I'll go for the Q701.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Martin,
> Don't look at the price that receiver is going for on eBay right now, instead think of all the hours of enjoyment it's given you over the years and continues to do so
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's not my receiver Evshrug, I just found a review for you and went to bed.. we are 5 hours ahead of you here in England.. a night out with your girlfriend sounded like a good choice to me mate..i went out yesterday to get some credit from my local game store and put infamous second son first light on my ps4 but ended up getting dark souls 2 instead for my xbox360..first light is only 4 hours long dark souls 2 will last me ages!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

evshrug said:


> Martin,
> Don't look at the price that receiver is going for on eBay right now, instead think of all the hours of enjoyment it's given you over the years and continues to do so
> 
> I just noticed the lack of HDMI circuitry... Just as well though, cuz I also noticed today was my 6th anniversary with my girlfriend, so instead I went out for dinner at a nice restaurant out on a patio. Pretty expensive for a meal, and one night, but I enjoyed it and loving my girlfriend is certainly not an impulse (at least not any more, now it's as natural as breathing).
> ...




Thanks dude ill get at them... Btw I still haven't been able to set up my Vali since I bought the wrong chord for it. I was flying through monoprice too fast and bought a 2.5 plug instead of 3.5. Need to get an adapter for it so I can plug it into the mix amp... Set something up with me if you want to try it out


----------



## Brick3

*I'm planning to get a amp-dac for my q702, hd650 and fidelio x1. Usage will be for games and movies. *
*I'm currently using astro mixamp but i think with a better amp/dac i could enjoy the sound a lot more as i feel like mixamp is not good enough anymore. **The sound doesn't come strong enough.*
*My only priority is that it must have an optical input. *
*So what would you recommend me under $400?*
*And would an amplifier alone enough or do i also need a dac?*
*Thanks in advance.*


----------



## Xander Shade

xander shade said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I am really new to the gaming headphone life. Being new and not knowing any better I originally went to Turtle Beach. But I just couldn't find a headphone that really struck my fancy. There was no way I was going to pay 300 dollars for a gaming headset that might break in 6 months. So I did a lot of research and a lot of reading. I eventually came across a site that swore by Sennheiser's. So I ventured into a realm of a true audiophile.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I originally said I was looking for a headphones under $300. Seemed like a good price point. But after learning I should buy a headphone amp to get more out of the headphones and adding a mic. It turned out be a little more than I wanted to spend. Which is why I like the Sennheiser HD 558. They are more in my price range with the extra items I would have to buy. I can always upgrade to the HD 598 in the future, if I like the HD 558. 
  
 I have two basic questions now. Would you recommend the Astro 2013 Mixamp, Fiio E17, or the Fiio E11?
  
 The next question I have is what mic is the best mic? I have seen the modmic, honestly I am not really sold on it. Paying 40 bucks for something that should cost maybe 15 or 20 in my opinion. I would like to find a noise canceling mic, but I believe them to be a bit on the pricey side or another needle in a needle stack. I have looked at Blue Microphones, I know you can make them work on the Xbox 360 and I know they work on the computer, but I am not sure if they work on the PS4.
  
 Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## IBIubbleTea

Hey, What are some fun sounding closed headphones with more bass for €200 that don't require a amp? DT770?


----------



## Change is Good

ibiubbletea said:


> Hey, What are some fun sounding closed headphones with more bass for €200 that don't require a amp? DT770?


 
  
 SoundMAGIC HP150


----------



## Evshrug

xander shade said:


> I was looking for a headphone system under $300.
> 
> I have two basic questions now. Would you recommend the Astro 2013 Mixamp, Fiio E17, or the Fiio E11?
> *It's easiest to connect headphones to a console using a device with optical. We in this thread like the added benefit of virtual surround processing, which would work with the Sennheiser HD558 (or AKG K612, also I saw a decent deal on the similar K601 on eBay for $90 if you want me to show you), so in that case you'd want an Astro (older models sound better/less noisy than the new 2013 model, find one on eBay!) or other surround processor like Turtle Beach DSS (~$25) or Recon3D USB if you also want good computer compatibility too. The E11, E11k, and E17 are good in their own ways but only the E17 could plug directly into the console and even then it would only play plain old stereo.*
> ...


----------



## Yethal

I forgot to post it before, I have another MixAmp (the 2009 one, least noisy of them) I am willing to sell, european players preferably (You know, customs, ebay fees and all that) so if You want one and You're an European PM me. I can send some pics.


----------



## Evshrug

Yethal,
Probably forgot because you're supposed to post personal advertisements in the FS forum.


----------



## Yethal

So much hassle. I'll do it in the morning. Anybody else noticed new Astro website?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> *So much hassle*. I'll do it in the morning. Anybody else noticed new Astro website?


 
  





  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






> Originally Posted by *Yethal* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> *FS: Astro Mixamp*
> 
> ...


 
  


  
 That was not that hard, now, was it? Just copy and paste in the classifieds...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Your welcome...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> You*'*r*e* welcome...


 
  
 Just sayin'.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Just sayin'. :rolleyes:




Damnit!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My next thing, though it's going to be done differently. I'll let you guys know when it happens.


----------



## Change is Good

> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 T51p?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

T51i to be exact. Should be the exact same, other than the Apple stuff on the cable.

This one will be reviewed elsewhere, but I'll of course put at least the link and the final gaming scores here (on the top page).


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> T51i to be exact. Should be the exact same, other than the Apple stuff on the cable.
> 
> This one will be reviewed elsewhere, but I'll of course put at least the link and the final gaming scores here (on the top page).


 
  
 That in-line mic should be a plus for chat gaming, actually. Nice...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> T51i to be exact. Should be the exact same, other than the Apple stuff on the cable.
> 
> 
> 
> This one will be reviewed elsewhere, but I'll of course put at least the link and the final gaming scores here (on the top page).



 


Damn. I was hoping that you were going to be reviewing the table.


----------



## Stillhart

brick3 said:


> *I'm planning to get a amp-dac for my q702, hd650 and fidelio x1. Usage will be for games and movies. *
> *I'm currently using astro mixamp but i think with a better amp/dac i could enjoy the sound a lot more as i feel like mixamp is not good enough anymore. **The sound doesn't come strong enough.*
> *My only priority is that it must have an optical input.*
> *So what would you recommend me under $400?*
> ...



Audio-GD NFB-11


----------



## Change is Good

^Homie might need some rca inputs if he is using the mixamp.


----------



## Stillhart

So I talked to the guys at the Turtle Beach booth a bit today. TAC confirmed *not* to be coming out this year. There is a new headphone for the PC that's USB and has DTS and lets you unplug the headphones. In theory this would let you use the DTS headphone x on PC with any headphone. Its the Z60 I believe and its aroun $110. 

I don't think its worth messing with for that price... Omni/Z is cheaper and more versatile. But you know... Someone else might be interested.

Astro looks like they have a new model out (A38?) but their booth was busy so I'll check more later.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> ^Homie might need some rca inputs if he is using the mixamp.



Thought he said he was ditching the astro. Might have misread.


----------



## Change is Good

He needs to be more clear then. I read "The sound doesn't come strong enough" so I was assuming he is going to be double amping. He gave no mention of what the optical input was for... so I hope he doesn't think what you recommended natively decodes digital surround on its own. Recommend the Omni as well if you assumed he's ditching the mixamp.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> He needs to be more clear then. I read "The sound doesn't come strong enough" so I was assuming he is going to be double amping. He gave no mention of what the optical input was for... so I hope he doesn't think what you recommended natively decodes digital surround on its own. Recommend the Omni as well if you assumed he's ditching the mixamp.



I assumed a lot of things that led to that recommendation. Let's correct that.

Two questions:

1 Do you still want surround?
2 Are you on PC or console?

The answers to these questions will change the recommendation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For me, if im gonna spend money on amps/dac, it just makes all the sense in the world to get the Compass 2 and call it a day. Great dac, great amp for pretty much every headphone, analog input, various digital inputs, fantastic volume control. This is, if I was fully back in the headphone game.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ahoooooooo my GOD HE's *BACK!*


----------



## Xander Shade

evshrug said:


>


 
  
 Having gone back and reading through some of the back pages of the forum. I noticed that Mad Lust Envy states that the Sennheiser are Jack of all Trades, but a master of none.
  
 So with that in mind. I think I will buy a few headphones and see which one I like the best, as only my ears will be able to tell and no amount of research and 5 star ratings are going to help me without me actually hearing the differences in the quality of different headphones. I can either keep the ones I like or sell them.
  
 Now that I have read that the Sennheiser HD 558 and HD 598 have a good soundstage when it comes to gaming, but it doesn't sound that great for movies.
  
 An all rounder headphone was introduced on the page I have read: Creative Aurvana Live! and Philips Fidelio x1.
  
 The Fidelio x1 is a bit on the pricey side for me. As of right now. But I may change my mind in the future depending what I find in headphones.
  
 As for the Mixamp. I have read many reviews about the Astro Mixamp saying it was really a good amp. Although I haven't heard much about the DSS 3D Recon USB.. Now I am not saying they are not good. I am just saying of all the research I have done, only the DSS/2 has been mentioned a few times..The Recon 3D has not been mentioned.  However Fiio products have.
  
 The Mixamp they sell on Astro site, are they different than the Mixamp they sell with all the headsets that Astro sells? I have learned that A30, A40 Mixamp won't work with an A50 Headset.
  
 As for the mic, I am not too worried about the cost of the microphone as long as it has great sound quality. But I want to be able to chat and hear the soundstage of my game at the same time. I don't have to hear my voice when I chat, that is not needed, just as long as people can hear me. Remember this will be mainly for the Xbox 360 and PS4.
  
 When I am not gaming. I want to hear my movies in that similar soundstage. If that is even possible. I am guessing with the right sound card it is. I will be using my computer for watching movies if that helps.
  
 I have a Creative SOUND BLASTER X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card I got a few years ago. When I first built my PC. What would you recommend for an upgrade if this outdated?


----------



## Evshrug

xander shade said:


> So with that in mind. I think I will buy a few headphones and see which one I like the best, as only my ears will be able to tell and no amount of research and 5 star ratings are going to help me without me actually hearing the differences in the quality of different headphones. I can either keep the ones I like or sell them.



*YES!* This! This so hard! We can point out above-average headphones and weed out the trash, but ultimately personal taste is the only thing that can determine what "best" sounds like. The only thing to keep in mind is that a headphone might surprise you, liking it more or less than you expected.




> As for the Mixamp. I have read many reviews about the Astro Mixamp saying it was really a good amp. Although I haven't heard much about the DSS 3D Recon USB.. Now I am not saying they are not good. I am just saying of all the research I have done, only the DSS/2 has been mentioned a few times..The Recon 3D has not been mentioned.  However Fiio products have.
> 
> The Mixamp they sell on Astro site, are they different than the Mixamp they sell with all the headsets that Astro sells? I have learned that A30, A40 Mixamp won't work with an A50 Headset.



Astro does a good job getting their name out in ads and MLG. Creative's been around a lot longer, but are less ineffective in marketing. Creative makes both the soundcard you have and the Recon3D USB. The Mixamp sold separately, A30, and A40 kits is an open system to which you can plug in any headphones, but since the A50 is wireless that is closed and is made just for the A50. I personally have had a DSS, a Mixamp 5.8 wireless, and two Recon3D USBs, again subject to taste but the DSS and Recon3D technically had the least background noise and bass bloat, and the Recon3D uses THX TruStudio Pro processing for surround processing which to me sound more natural with less or no reverb.

Oh and your creative soundcard is fine, I just personally prefer the newer THX and SBX over what your creative comes with, CMSS 3-D, I think CMSS-3D sounds a bit too sharp for me at treble.


----------



## Stillhart

Spoke with Astro today. New Mixamp is coming in October. There will be no SQ changes or feature changes, just visual. Confirmed no plans for more wireless mixamps; those were an interim solution until they got the A50 out.

So yeah Astro is coasting. Yet for some reason there we TONS of people buying them there. Thanks to MLE, I never made that mistake.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Spoke with Astro today. New Mixamp is coming in October. *There will be no SQ changes or feature changes*, just visual. *Confirmed no plans for more wireless mixamps*; those were an interim solution until they got the A50 out.
> 
> So yeah Astro is coasting. Yet for some reason there we TONS of people buying them there. Thanks to MLE, I never made that mistake.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dammit Astro, get it together. Some native PCM, DTS to Dolby Headphone conversion would be nice. Receivers have been doing that for years...

Do they at least plan to add extra digital inputs? Because this is one thing that is unacceptable nowadays. Gamers don't tend to have just have one console.


----------



## Change is Good

FiiO could have came out on top, here. I don't get why they keep making all these excess versions of their X DAPs and E1x amps. I mean, I get it... but.. c'mon already! They can really take over in this situation...

Rant over...


----------



## AxelCloris

Well FiiO did already state in the petition thread that they'd be open to the idea, but right now they have too many things in the pipe to start branching out into a whole new area. But I agree with you that FiiO really could come in and make the gaming device of the people. They have the capacity to really deliver on an appropriately priced DSP with all of the features the gaming market would like to see. I guess there's not much we can do right now, though. We'll just have to wait it out and see what they do at this point.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, that's FiiO's speciality, right? Making the "Device of the People." I still think they'd be good to go if they just took the 3rd party DSP/DAC chip used in the DSS and tied an E11 amp to it, at least as an easy introductory unit, and then when they make good sales they can release an upgraded unit with the input and amping features we'd love. 

Really, any manufacturer could do this... It's a currently underdeveloped entry-level niche.
So, nobody is suggesting FiiO is bad or has any responsibility for this, but it's an opportunity, heck if I had the money I might try to make a startup and create a nicer device.


----------



## Change is Good

It would be nice, but don't hold your breath on FiiO. Not when they are opening threads like "what is your dream DAP." We'll probably have to wait for ten more DAPs and a couple more versions of the E12 and E11 to come out before they take a look at the petition again.

Okay, I may have over exaggerated a bit... 

But you are right, Ev, they have no obligation to us. Kind of seems like we got put on the back burner, though... and have been forgotten about...


----------



## AxelCloris

I don't mind being on the back burner. They're a big company. I just hope that somewhere along the line there's a post-it or something to remind them to come back and look again. Sometimes it's best to forget about something and then come back to it later because you'll have a different perspective then.
  
 I will say that this conversation has given me an idea that I'll run with and see what happens.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> I mean, that's FiiO's speciality, right? Making the "Device of the People." I still think they'd be good to go if they just took the 3rd party DSP/DAC chip used in the DSS and tied an E11 amp to it, at least as an easy introductory unit, and then when they make good sales they can release an upgraded unit with the input and amping features we'd love.
> 
> Really, any manufacturer could do this... It's a currently underdeveloped entry-level niche.
> So, nobody is suggesting FiiO is bad or has any responsibility for this, but it's an opportunity, heck if I had the money I might try to make a startup and create a nicer device.


 

 I am going to make a dongle with *Auro-3D® * for surround, when you just want to listen to a bit of dance music it will sound like a void sound system.. comes with a wireless headset..all for just $169.99 in store only 1 per customer!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As long as my Mixamp 5.8 continues to work flawlessly, I'm happy.


----------



## Change is Good

^^^ *+1*


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> ^^^ *+1*


 
  
 I'll probably be back to a 5.8 Mixamp soon. Then my setup will be similar to Change's. How about a photo of the finished cable, my friend?


----------



## Evshrug

For a "wireless" system, you sure have to use a fair number of wires.


----------



## Change is Good

^That's because your PS chat cable doesn't work. As you can see in my situation, it's plug and play with just the BoomPro. That cable in the background is from my desk speakers.

For Xbox... and PS users without the cable, your point is true, though...


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> What's the saddest Emoji I can type?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


>


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, the meat of my T51 review will be up here: Headphone.guru As I have stated, this will probably be once in awhile, and I'll still have the final scores up here on the guide. Just the main review will be posted there. Chrck it out if you have the chance. I'm not on there yet though.

As for the 5.8, the only cable I utilize is the headphone cable to the Rx, that's it. On the rare occasion I chat (which is like...almost never), yeah, I have to contend with the cable between RX and the DS4, but that's hardly what I'd call problematic.

I wish there was some form of bluetooth mini audio receiver to attach to the RX unit and one on the DS4. That way, no cable. Lol.

Like something that only communicates with it's other half. Of course, it would put some strain on the DS4 and Mixamp's inputs, so some duble sided tape or velcro would be a possible solution.


----------



## Evshrug

Or if you could just use Bluetooth 4.0 headsets and the console would do the headphone surround processing for us natively with AMD TrueAudio.

But, with my monitor and short-range setup, I prefer my own wired headphones and amps.


----------



## Change is Good

One week left, guys! Woop woop!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> One week left, guys! Woop woop!


 
  
 Yeah! I'm super excited for the Apple event on the 9th and the T-Mobile Uncarrier 7.0 on the 10th!
  
 Oh, and Destiny.


----------



## Evshrug

There's an Apple event on the 9th? What's it for, a smartwatch?

I'd better call off work!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> One week left, guys! Woop woop!


 
 Is your PS4 going to be back in time?
  
 In other news, I met up with a fellow head-fi'er in Seattle.  Tried out the HE-560, UE900, XBA-H3, and some Teac IEM's that I didn't bother catching the model number of because they were so bass aenemic.  Caveat:  we were in a relatively (compared to say my man-cave at home) noisy bar and the HE-560 is VERY open.  
  
 The short versions:  HE-560 was much more sparkly than I was expecting.  Bass was deep and wide, super controlled and detailed, with enough quantity to be felt but not enough to be "bassy".  Mids were slightly recessed; nothing terrible, but I find that I prefer a more mid-centric sound so it was slightly disappointing.  But it wasn't BAD by any means, just not as great as the treble and the bass.  Overall, fantastic can.  Probably sounds even better when you can hear all the detail.  Worth 4x as much as my Q701?  No.
  
 X3 had bloated bass that muddied up the mids, super V-shaped sound, totally not my style.  I didn't like them at all.  *Sorry, Change!*
  
 The Teacs had nice mids and treble and no bass.  Not sure what the point of those were.
  
 UE900 was like an inverse V (what do you call that sound sig?).  Very nice, forward mids with great detail and presence in the bass and treble as well.  Insane isolation!  Honestly, these were the star of the show for me.  I really want a pair pretty bad now.  Thinking about selling my HP100 and grabbing one of these $210-$230 ones on eBay.
  
 I admit, all you guys who told me that IEM's could be as good as any headphone were (of course) correct.  I'm happy to be proven wrong on that, of course.  Just not looking forward to the hit to my wallet!  lol
  
 Oh BTW, he said the HE4 actually has a similar sound signature to the HE560 (after a couple small mods he did to his).  He's going to loan me his to see for myself.  Apparently you can get them used for relatively cheap and people "in the know" think they're an absolute steal.  Guess I'll see for myself soon.


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> Guys, the meat of my T51 review will be up here: Headphone.guru As I have stated, this will probably be once in awhile, and I'll still have the final scores up here on the guide. Just the main review will be posted there. Chrck it out if you have the chance. I'm not on there yet though.
> 
> As for the 5.8, the only cable I utilize is the headphone cable to the Rx, that's it. On the rare occasion I chat (which is like...almost never), yeah, I have to contend with the cable between RX and the DS4, but that's hardly what I'd call problematic.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Or if you could just use Bluetooth 4.0 headsets and the console would do the headphone surround processing for us natively with AMD TrueAudio.
> 
> But, with my monitor and short-range setup, I prefer my own wired headphones and amps.


 
  
  
 Which is why it is weird that Sony hasn't implemented bluetooth for the PS4. You could actually do this on the PS3 already.
 A bluetooth headset or mic as the mic, but chat audio and game audio can be selected to output through HDMI or optical (in this case, optical since it'll be Mixamp/DSS).
  
 So yeah, What, Sony.


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> UE900 was like an inverse V (what do you call that sound sig?).  Very nice, forward mids with great detail and presence in the bass and treble as well.  Insane isolation!  Honestly, these were the star of the show for me.  I really want a pair pretty bad now.  Thinking about selling my HP100 and grabbing one of these $210-$230 ones on eBay.


 
  
 I really love that IEM and actually bought it again 3 months ago but the ******* problem with the cable still exists. It's really insane, there's no reliability. No wonder they got discontinued. 
  
 If you want a pair that is better built with better, more articulated low-end and more air then get the FA-4E XB as that one is the "natural successor" or let's say upgrade to the UE 900. Without any cable issues.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stillhart, it looks like the HE-400i would be the headphone for you, as apparently, the mids are quite forward. More than the 560.


----------



## Change is Good

No need to apolagize to me, stillhart, LoL. We just have different tastes when we want a "fun" sound. I use wider bore tips to open the sound and tame the bass some on the H3. I wouldn't necessarily say it's V-shaped, either, as its mids are actually present, not recessed. The MOE would be more v-shaped whith its sucked out mids and spikey treble, while the H3 is u-shaped with mid bass and smoother (yet still detailed) highs.

Also, the UE900 can be found for cheaper than thoae prices on ebay. You may also want to look into the new version of the VSONIC GR07 "classic" which can be had for $99.


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> I really love that IEM and actually bought it again 3 months ago but the ******* problem with the cable still exists. It's really insane, there's no reliability. No wonder they got discontinued.
> 
> If you want a pair that is better built with better, more articulated low-end and more air then get the FA-4E XB as that one is the "natural successor" or let's say upgrade to the UE 900. Without any cable issues.


 
  
 There's apparently a new version of the UE900, I wonder if that fixes the issue?  You have me worried here because I will definitely not pay that kind of money for something with reliability issues... especially something like an IEM that I'm already worried about being fragile and loseable.  I'll check out that other one, thanks.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Stillhart, it looks like the HE-400i would be the headphone for you, as apparently, the mids are quite forward. More than the 560.


 
  
 Hopefully I'll get a chance to hear for myself one of these days!
  


change is good said:


> No need to apolagize to me, stillhart, LoL. We just have different tastes when we want a "fun" sound. I use wider bore tips to open the sound and tame the bass some on the H3. I wouldn't necessarily say it's V-shaped, either, as its mids are actually present, not recessed. The MOE would be more v-shaped whith its sucked out mids and spikey treble, while the H3 is u-shaped with mid bass and smoother (yet still detailed) highs.
> 
> Also, the UE900 can be found for cheaper than thoae prices on ebay. You may also want to look into the new version of the VSONIC GR07 "classic" which can be had for $99.


 
  
 Apparently, we were using the tips he bought from you.  Thanks for the other recommendation, I'll look into that one too.


----------



## Change is Good

^My dear good friend who recently traded tips with me? Nice! 

Crazy how you liked the MOE but not the H3, though. Now, that's a v-shaped headphone LoL. 

Yeah, the UE900*s* is the recent version of the Logitechs. As for the GR07, make sure you do your research on that as well. There is the original GR07, GR07 MK2, and GR07 BE (all older versions, in order) which go for over $125. The newer version called the "classic" sells for $99 and comes in three colors. Those are the IEMs I had when I owned the Q701 and HP100... before I became a borderline bass head


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> ^My dear good friend who recently traded tips with me? Nice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well to be fair, I haven't listened to the MOE in a while.  My tastes may very well have become more defined since then.  I'll have to bug my wife to borrow hers for a while and see.  The thing I noticed most about the H3 was the muddy bass.  It wasn't so much that it was V-shaped that I didn't like, it was the quality of the bass.  It's similar to my first impression of the X1, actually.
  
 Those Fischer Audio IEM's look like they'd fit the bill, but holy **** they're expensive!  I'll read up more on them and the GR07 (and the UE900) later today.


----------



## Change is Good

^Try joker's multi iem review thread, the discovery thread, and the Asian thread. Lucky for you, the IEM community is extremely diverse and active. Don't limit yourself to just those two options. Plenty out there to chose from, and many people to help you chose.

Have fun!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the 400i is just the polar opposite of the 400. The bass has been reduced by quite a bit, the mids are the forward aspect of its sound, and it's treble has been pared back considerably.

This irks me, because I wanted a corrected 400, not something completely different. Don't get me wrong, I very much want the 400i, but what made the 400 good has been taken away to turn it into something else entirely. Calling it the 400i is nonsense.

I know the 400 is hit or miss, but I really loved it for what it was.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the 400i is just the polar opposite of the 400. The bass has been reduced by quite a bit, the mids are the forward aspect of its sound, and it's treble has been pared back considerably.
> 
> This irks me, because I wanted a corrected 400, not something completely different. Don't get me wrong, I very much want the 400i, but what made the 400 good has been taken away to turn it into something else entirely. Calling it the 400i is nonsense.
> 
> I know the 400 is hit or miss, but I really loved it for what it was.


 
 Interesting.  I didn't dislike the 560 at all, it was definitely a nice headphone.  The mids weren't even recessed by much... I feel like if they just flipped that (the mids up front but not by much), it'd be perfect.  I don't know that I need the mids to be crazy emphasized.


----------



## Evshrug

Still,
The AKGs and brain burn-in do something to us, make us fairly more excited about great mids. Mad is part of that group "in the know" that the HE-400 have a lot of chops and are an amazing value, I think with an amp HE400 with the velour Earpads would satisfy and thrill many people of the typical sound character taste... I might've bought them from him if vocals were more forward and the headphones weren't the craziest most open headphones I've ever encountered! Did the HE560 change sound if your hands were within half a foot of the earcups? I found that fascinating!

The opposite of a v- or u-shaped headphone would be an n-shaped headphone, cuz, you know, it looks the most like an upside down n. A headphone like that is rare, IMO the MA900 is the most n-shaped I've heard.

I saw a pair of MA900 on the deals thread and almost jumped on it, but it was $old by the time I got there. Now I'm contemplating a K601 or K612, the former is cheaper and more impulse-worthy. Anyone know if the sound changed at all between the K601 and K612?

I have an eBay listing for the Q701 ready except for pictures, I wonder if it'd sell for a better price there or here?


----------



## AxelCloris

Speaking of eBay, I'm watching something that should serve me quite well if I can score it. Not long left on the auction. Crossing my fingers that I can snag it.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Still,
> The AKGs and brain burn-in do something to us, make us fairly more excited about great mids. Mad is part of that group "in the know" that the HE-400 have a lot of chops and are an amazing value, I think with an amp HE400 with the velour Earpads would satisfy and thrill many people of the typical sound character taste... I might've bought them from him if vocals were more forward and the headphones weren't the craziest most open headphones I've ever encountered! Did the HE560 change sound if your hands were within half a foot of the earcups? I found that fascinating!
> 
> The opposite of a v- or u-shaped headphone would be an n-shaped headphone, cuz, you know, it looks the most like an upside down n. A headphone like that is rare, IMO the MA900 is the most n-shaped I've heard.
> ...


 
 The "in the know" bit was referring to the HE4, not the HE400.  Not sure what the difference btween the two is, as I mostly hear about the HE-xxx models not the HE-x ones.
  
 And yeah, I totally tested that because of what you said.  It was weird!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-4 has little in common with the HE-400. The HE-4 is the airiest Hifiman planar outside of the 560. It sounds like a planar DT880, to be honest. The HE400 has a thicker bass and lower mids, but the dip in the upper mids to the massive treble spike afterward make it sound...different.

Evs, from what I have seen on headfi, the K602 and K612 are essentially the same sounding headphone and hard to tell apart. I believe it was Zombie who had both. Not entirely sure though.

The 612 certainly sounds just like what I envisioned the 601 to sound like based on it's graphs.


----------



## conquerator2

I might be willing to pair with my K612, MA900 or both... Fetch me a PM if interested. MA900 would be 200$ shipped, K612 would be 150$ shipped, both come in original packaging w/ all accessories [MA900 - pouch, 1/4 adapter, K612 - 1/4 adapter.]
 I figured it's related


----------



## Evshrug

Thanks Mad. So I guess the question is, between used units, is a newer unit (with black color scheme) worth $45 more than a 5 year old unit with yellowed pads (apparently a common thing).

Meh, probably could just get the older one and new pads? Or would that end up costing more than the new one? Lol


----------



## JayL

for the 5.8 on the PS4,you guys just don't have the usb cable right, that's why you say you have to use the cable to the controller?
  
 Because mine works great every day...with the usb cable it came with


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Still,
> The AKGs and brain burn-in do something to us, make us fairly more excited about great mids. Mad is part of that group "in the know" that the HE-400 have a lot of chops and are an amazing value, I think with an amp HE400 with the velour Earpads would satisfy and thrill many people of the typical sound character taste... I might've bought them from him if vocals were more forward and the headphones weren't the craziest most open headphones I've ever encountered! Did the HE560 change sound if your hands were within half a foot of the earcups? I found that fascinating!
> 
> The opposite of a v- or u-shaped headphone would be an n-shaped headphone, cuz, you know, it looks the most like an upside down n. A headphone like that is rare, IMO the MA900 is the most n-shaped I've heard.
> ...


 

 I found the K612 is a tad warmer and slightly smoother/darker up top than the K601, that's about the only difference. Quite minute differences.


----------



## AxelCloris

jayl said:


> for the 5.8 on the PS4,you guys just don't have the usb cable right, that's why you say you have to use the cable to the controller?
> 
> Because mine works great every day...with the usb cable it came with


 
  
 So you're running the optical and USB to the PS4 from the Tx, the headphone/mic cable from the headphones to the Rx and nothing between the controller and the Rx?


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, from what I have seen on headfi, the K602 and K612 are essentially the same sounding headphone and hard to tell apart. I believe it was Zombie who had both. Not entirely sure though.
> 
> The 612 certainly sounds just like what I envisioned the 601 to sound like based on it's graphs.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Thanks Mad. So I guess the question is, between used units, is a newer unit (with black color scheme) worth $45 more than a 5 year old unit with yellowed pads (apparently a common thing).
> 
> Meh, probably could just get the older one and new pads? Or would that end up costing more than the new one? Lol


 
  
 You should just have done that trade when you had the chance... LoL
  


kman1211 said:


> *I found the K612 is a tad warmer and slightly smoother/darker up top than the K601, that's about the only difference. Quite minute differences.*


 
  
 ^This, according to Zombie, as well, when he compared my K612 to his K601...


----------



## Evshrug

jayl said:


> for the 5.8 on the PS4,you guys just don't have the usb cable right, that's why you say you have to use the cable to the controller?
> 
> Because mine works great every day...with the usb cable it came with



Mine came with the discontinued cable, but I loaned the whole kit before I tested that part and I take the other guy at his word when he said it arrived non-functional. Though at that point I'd only had the kit a month, Astro doesn't warranty replace discontinued products.





kman1211 said:


> I found the K612 is a tad warmer and slightly smoother/darker up top than the K601, that's about the only difference. Quite minute differences.



A little smoother and easy listening (with good mids and extension) is what I want.



change is good said:


> You should just have done that trade when you had the chance... LoL



Nyan nyi nyan nyaaah 
I offered that trade and the other person said okay, I had given my address and everything, but the other person changed their mind and backed out.


Also, a sorta fun diversion for Destiny fans:
http://destinyplanetview.com


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Also, a sorta fun diversion for Destiny fans:
> http://destinyplanetview.com


 
  
 With a prize at the end for checking out the whole thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm irked that Destiny is coming out so soon. By the time I can dive into the game, everyone else will be so far ahead. I'm not going to stop until I finish Xillia 2. Then there's Diablo 3 which I also intend to at least push through with my first character. This one is a little easier to play at the same time as Destiny. Xillia 2 demands all my attention. CoD Advanced Warfare will come after Destiny, if I even feel remotely bored by Desting at that point. I don't really have much desire to play CoD or any PVP for now. PVE and RPGS.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I'm irked that Destiny is coming out so soon. By the time I can dive into the game, everyone else will be so far ahead. I'm not going to stop until I finish Xillia 2. Then there's Diablo 3 which I also intend to at least push through with my first character. This one is a little easier to play at the same time as Destiny. Xillia 2 demands all my attention. CoD Advanced Warfare will come after Destiny, if I even feel remotely bored by Desting at that point. I don't really have much desire to play CoD or any PVP for now. PVE and RPGS.


 
  
 I think Ryoko demands all of your attention, my friend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. Man, don't even get me started on that. 50 five minute episodes, and crapton of new characters, and redesigns that lead me to think the characters are gonna be over sexualized and cartoonified to the point of disrespecting the original personalities...

Tenchi died a long time ago for me. Even so, I'm so attached to the original core characters, I can't help but represent. :'(


----------



## Change is Good

I, on the other hand, have nothing in my way of Destiny... as of tomorrow...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



My fixed (hopefully) PS4 and other replacement controller return...


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha. Man, don't even get me started on that. 50 five minute episodes, and crapton of new characters, and redesigns that lead me to think the characters are gonna be over sexualized and cartoonified to the point of disrespecting the original personalities...
> 
> Tenchi died a long time ago for me. Even so, I'm so attached to the original core characters, I can't help but represent. :'(


 
  
 Evolution of the harem anime genre. Unfortunately most of them are overly sexualized nowadays. But the Tenchi franchise will always have a soft place in my heart, especially with the original girls. Hopefully we get some more Tsunami, one of my personal favorites.
  
 I think I'm going to re-watch Muyo and some of Universe this week while I'm off work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a strong doubt that Tsunami will be in, as she is original OAV continuity material. Ai Tenchi Muyo seems to be another continuity...yet again. Not that it matters. Kajishima ruined the OAV continuity. I refuse to acknowledge OAV 3 and GXP.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I have a strong doubt that Tsunami will be in, as she is original OAV continuity material. Ai Tenchi Muyo seems to be another continuity...yet again. Not that it matters. Kajishima ruined the OAV continuity. I refuse to acknowledge OAV 3 and GXP.


 
  
 I haven't bothered to track down and watch Ryo-Ohki yet but I found GXP to be comical for a decent portion of it. I enjoy all of Nabeshin's work.
  
 Edit: I also need to track down all of War on Geminar for a good weekend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didnt hate Geminar... though it's tied to Tenchi in as BS a way as possible. Really shouldn't be. Hell, El Hazard OAV was a better tie in that wasn't really a tie in.


----------



## calpis

Wait, there's a new Tenchi? I finished Geminar a few months ago and also didn't hate it. El Hazard was amazing, still have a couple of the subbed VHS tapes with the snap lock case.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, a bunch of shorts based on Tenchi being a teacher with some weird students or some nonsense.


----------



## AxelCloris

calpis said:


> Wait, there's a new Tenchi? I finished Geminar a few months ago and also didn't hate it. El Hazard was amazing, still have a couple of the subbed VHS tapes with the snap lock case.


 
  
 Yup. It's called _Ai Tenchi Muyo!_ http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=16109


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

After the massive clusterflub that was OAV 3, my favorite continuity now is the Manatsu No Eve one. It was family-centric and focused on the characters that matter.


----------



## calpis

axelcloris said:


> Yup. It's called _Ai Tenchi Muyo!_ http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=16109


 
 That reminds me, I gotta finish Yozakura Quartet.


----------



## Stillhart

Akira (original ****ty English dub memorized!), Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Appleseed, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion.
  
 There, now I feel less left out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haha, so many early 90s classics.

Count the ORIGINAL Project A-ko as well. Though, skip the hell out of the continuations. It went borderline hentai for some damn reason. Messed up such a classic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/1uVCR0d2omI[/VIDEO]

The WHOLE movie. At 42 minutes in, that's when it gets REAL.

This is the original that kickstarted my anime obsession.... well, after Fist of the North Star.


----------



## calpis

I never got passed the first tape of Project A-ko mainly because that's all I had and anime VHS tapes were expensive. I watched stuff when I was way young in cantonese dub on laser disc like dragon ball and gundam but what got me really hooked was Ranma 1/2, Tenchi, and Macross Plus.


----------



## conquerator2

RWBY. There.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 400i's graphs indicate a strong lower mid to mid presence with less actual bass. So yeah, looks like the 400i won't cater to anyone looking for bass.


----------



## conquerator2

If you look for midbass it will. Subbass it won't.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> The WHOLE movie. At 42 minutes in, that's when it gets REAL.
> 
> This is the original that kickstarted my anime obsession.... well, after Fist of the North Star.


 
  
 /facepalm!  I can't believe I forgot to mention Fist of the Northstar!


----------



## JayL

axelcloris said:


> So you're running the optical and USB to the PS4 from the Tx, the headphone/mic cable from the headphones to the Rx and nothing between the controller and the Rx?


 
 Yes sir, the original Astro USB cable. PC360 headphones and a silly two into one from the headphones to the Rx.
  
 I could use a tad more volume so considering an amp.
  
 The rechargeable battery was the greatest add-on ever, THANKS to MLE for telling us to get that!
  
 For my XbOne I have to use a cable to the controller, and I hate that wire dangling


----------



## AxelCloris

jayl said:


> Yes sir, the original Astro USB cable. PC360 headphones and a silly two into one from the headphones to the Rx.
> 
> I could use a tad more volume so considering an amp.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I may have to track down one of those USB cables if my friend's Mixamp doesn't come with one. I like that idea more than running a cable from the controller to the Rx.


----------



## Change is Good

Hurry up, FedEx! Sheeeeeeeeeesh...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Hurry up, FedEx! Sheeeeeeeeeesh...


 
  
 Hurry up, 11:30PM! Sheeeeeeeeeesh...
  
 My alcantara pads came in today, just before I left for work no less. So I want to get home and try them out. If they can improve the comfort as much as you say then I'll be keeping them.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Hurry up, 11:30PM! Sheeeeeeeeeesh...
> 
> My alcantara pads came in today, just before I left for work no less. So I want to get home and try them out. If they can improve the comfort as much as you say then I'll be keeping them.




Is that 11:30PM ET?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Is that 11:30PM ET?


 
  
 Yup, I'm still in the midwest... for now.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Yup, I'm still in the midwest... for now.




Sweeeeeet! We can play a couple games, tonight. Can't stay up too late, though, since it is a school night for me 

Which reminds me... 

You fukers are going to be so ahead of me by the first weekend of Destiny, since I won't be able to play much during the week. I have to make sure I do some extra school assignments ahead of time, so I'll at least have that weekend completely free to play catch up...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Sweeeeeet! We can play a couple games, tonight. Can't stay up too late, though, since it is a school night for me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Psh, school. Nobody needs to learn nothin'.
  
 Hopefully I can make some game time tonight. I'll see when I get home.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Hopefully I can make some game time tonight. I'll see when I get home.




C'moooon! We can be HP200 brothers in warfare


----------



## Yethal

Just a thought. If the Astro USB cable allows for voice chat by plugging to 3.5mm input on the Tx, couldn't it be substituted for a cheap soundcard + 3.5mm cables + splitter?


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Just a thought. If the Astro USB cable allows for voice chat by plugging to 3.5mm input on the Tx, couldn't it be substituted for a cheap soundcard + 3.5mm cables + splitter?


 
 Not on a console.


----------



## Change is Good

Seems as if the X2 was available on amazon.uk but is now out of stock...
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00MRUPSHQ


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Not on a console.


 
 I had that setup on my PS3 back when I was using first gen mixamp that didn't have USB chat option and it worked flawlessly, so it should work


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I had that setup on my PS3 back when I was using first gen mixamp that didn't have USB chat option and it worked flawlessly, so it should work


 
 What cheap soundcards work on a PS3?  You mean like a cheap USB Xonar thing?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> I had that setup on my PS3 back when I was using first gen mixamp that didn't have USB chat option and it worked flawlessly, so it should work


 
  
 Do elaborate, please. I have a cheap TurtleBeach soundcard laying around. If it's possible to use it in place of the Astro USB cable I'm going to make the jump soon.


----------



## Change is Good

I once used this as a chat alternate when I had my PS3. Yethal is correct if he is referring to this...
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS
  
 Works flawlessly for chat on the PS3, so it should also work on the PS4 I would believe...


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I once used this as a chat alternate when I had my PS3. Yethal is correct if he is referring to this...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS
> 
> Works flawlessly for chat on the PS3, so it should also work on the PS4 I would believe...


 
 Not this exact model but equally ****ty, I plugged headphone jack cable into the mp3 input and mic one in the daisy chain port, and it worked. So in 5,8 case two minijacks connected with a Y splitter should work
  
@Stillhart more like 1.99$ usb dongle, but xonar should work fine too


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Sweeeeeet! We can play a couple games, tonight. Can't stay up too late, though, since it is a school night for me
> 
> Which reminds me...
> 
> You fukers are going to be so ahead of me by the first weekend of Destiny, since I won't be able to play much during the week. I have to make sure I do some extra school assignments ahead of time, so I'll at least have that weekend completely free to play catch up...




Well at least you're in the same boat as Mad, right?
No way one weekend will be enough to catch up though, since I don't have anyone to go camping with I just used 4 vacation days to see if I can get sick of Destiny 
*forecast: probably won't get sick of it, judging by the alpha and beta


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I once used this as a chat alternate when I had my PS3. Yethal is correct if he is referring to this...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS
> 
> Works flawlessly for chat on the PS3, so it should also work on the PS4 I would believe...


 
  

  
 So you go from the AUX in on the back of the Tx to the USB device you linked? This sounds vaguely familiar but I honestly wasn't paying attention back then.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Well at least you're in the same boat as Mad, right?
> No way one weekend will be enough to catch up though, since I don't have anyone to go camping with I just used 4 vacation days to see if I can get sick of Destiny
> *forecast: probably won't get sick of it, judging by the alpha and beta


 
 Dang!  Which days are you taking off?  
  
 BTW, I have a little clan that I made for the beta; you guys are all welcome to join if you want.


----------



## Change is Good

Axel, I never tried this solution, exactly. I just used to own one with my ps3 and know it works for chat when plugged into the USB. I don't see why it shouldn't work as an alternate solution to not having PS chat cable with the 5.8 mixamp. Makes sense and good find, Yethal, if it does work...

Ev, I don't think Mad is in such a bad position since he only has games in his way, not massive research and schoolwork 

In case anyone wants to know, looks like Sony just replaced my PS4 with a brand new one. Same thing with both controllers. Only 13 days turnaround, and for 12 of those days it was in FedEx's possession.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> So you go from the AUX in on the back of the Tx to the USB device you linked? This sounds vaguely familiar but I honestly wasn't paying attention back then.


 
 Exactly that, also a splitter would come in handy since this is a single 4 pole minijack. But it worked for PS3 and should work for PS4


----------



## AxelCloris

Man I wish the PS4 had a single USB on the back, that would make things so much cleaner. Way to be short-sighted, Sony.


----------



## Yethal

+1 on that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, some questionable decisions.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Man I wish the PS4 had a single USB on the back, that would make things so much cleaner. Way to be short-sighted, Sony.


 
  
 This is definitely one of my beefs with the PS4.  ******* ridiculous decision, especially considering they had the SAME PROBLEM on the PS3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder how garage1217's Project Polaris's bandwith settings would help the HE-400. I think it would be an incredibly ideal combo, since it could potentially knock off the HE-400's treble problems almost entirely.

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm

That amp looks almost ideal in general, plenty of power with both low and high impedances.

I think when I bounce back, I'm getting this amp.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I wonder how garage1217's Project Polaris's bandwith settings would help the HE-400. I think it would be an incredibly ideal combo, since it could potentially knock off the HE-400's treble problems almost entirely.
> 
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm
> 
> ...


 
  
 There's been talk about that amp in the HE-4 thread.  They seem to like it.  Not sure how the sound sigs compare...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has a lot of power for planars, and about as much for 600ohm headphones as the Compass 2. The bandwith settings can basically limit the harshness of treble, which is what the HE-400 needs.

I think this would be my end game, since that is ALL I want fixed from the HE-400.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I wonder how garage1217's Project Polaris's bandwith settings would help the HE-400. I think it would be an incredibly ideal combo, since it could potentially knock off the HE-400's treble problems almost entirely.
> 
> http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_015.htm
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well spoken my friend. 
  
 Seriously though, there's something awesome coming down the pipe that if you don't buy one I might just end up gifting one to you, depending on the retail price of course. Hopefully you'll have everything else you need to really take advantage of it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh stahp it, you. 

$250 for a strong amp with options. It looks like it's in my future, lol.

I really miss the HE-400 too. What I see of the 400i, doesn't looks like what I want out of my one main headphone, though I know it's mids are something I'd love.


----------



## Stillhart

I'm going to just leave this here  for Change and MLE.
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Change is Good

^hardy har har...

I just put in Ground Zeroes and... wow... very nice. I can't wait until Phantom Pain. MGS is possibly my favorite series of my entire gaming life...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then people wonder why I don't co-op or do teams in general. 

Lone gamer 4 life.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Then people wonder why I don't co-op or do teams in general.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 But Destiny is putting a ton of emphasis on co-op. At least for the PvE gameplay. PvP could be done many different ways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm fairly certain I'll be playing with randoms 9/10 times just like I did with the Beta.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I'm fairly certain I'll be playing with randoms 9/10 times just like I did with the Beta.




There are mechanics in place so higher level guys don't steamroll the low levels. Should be able to group up if anyone is on at the same time as you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I'll definitely group up with you guys (I played with Evs a bit). Just expecting a huge gap in terms of general level and loot.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I'll definitely group up with you guys (I played with Evs a bit). Just expecting a huge gap in terms of general level and loot.




There's our fireteam. You, Axel, and I... since we won't have as much time, right away, to play like the others.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> There's our fireteam. You, Axel, and I... since we won't have as much time, right away, to play like the others.


 
 We also have 3 characters each.  Easy enough to have a high level one and a "low level" one for playing with others.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> We also have 3 characters each.  Easy enough to have a high level one and a "low level" one for playing with others.




Oh yeaaah. I forgot about that. But are you sure you are going to want to switch over after spending countless hours on your main guy? I probably wouldn't... LoL


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Oh yeaaah. I forgot about that. But are you sure you are going to want to switch over after spending countless hours on your main guy? I probably wouldn't... LoL


 
 As a veteran of many MMO's, I can tell you that playing with your friends trumps playing with an uber character.  Also, taking a break from your main to try new things can be really refreshing.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Oh yeaaah. I forgot about that. But are you sure you are going to want to switch over after spending countless hours on your main guy? I probably wouldn't... LoL


 
  
 I'll probably have 2 guys. I'm not enamored by the Titan but the Warlock and Hunter are very enticing. I love sniping/stealth gameplay but I also love being a caster in games like this. So I think those two will get all of my love.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I'll probably have 2 guys. I'm not enamored by the Titan but the Warlock and Hunter are very enticing. I love sniping/stealth gameplay but I also love being a caster in games like this. So I think those two will get all of my love.


 
 Titan main (both subclasses look awesome) and Hunter alt (Bladedancer FTW).  Warlock if I get sick of the other two.  :-D


----------



## jaysins

I'm going to max out one character fast since I'm off that whole week and then have other toons to play with friends. I'm really excited for the launch.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Titan main (both subclasses look awesome) and Hunter alt (Bladedancer FTW).  Warlock if I get sick of the other two.  :-D


 
  
 I'm loving the idea of the Sunsinger. I absolutely love playing support/utility roles in these kinds of games. I was the best siren I knew in BL2, and that's not just me tooting my own horn. If the others in the party had at least a tiny amount of skill I could keep them alive throughout anything while still contributing a considerable amount of damage to any enemies. People that stood in the fire, well, they weren't worth the effort. CC's, healing, area control, I love all of those things at the cost of lower damage output. The better I can control the field of play the less damage the enemies can do and I don't need to throw as much bust damage as others.
  
 Plus, the Sunsinger seems like it may end up being one of the less popular subclasses. Everyone loves to be the hero.


----------



## Change is Good

Axel, don't forget to post impressions of the HP200 when you have time, especially once you get used to the alcantaras. These can use some more publicity in this thread, as they still tend to get overlooked.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> I'm loving the idea of the Sunsinger. I absolutely love playing support/utility roles in these kinds of games. I was the best siren I knew in BL2, and that's not just me tooting my own horn. If the others in the party had at least a tiny amount of skill I could keep them alive throughout anything while still contributing a considerable amount of damage to any enemies. People that stood in the fire, well, they weren't worth the effort. CC's, healing, area control, I love all of those things at the cost of lower damage output. The better I can control the field of play the less damage the enemies can do and I don't need to throw as much bust damage as others.
> 
> Plus, the Sunsinger seems like it may end up being one of the less popular subclasses. Everyone loves to be the hero.


 
  
 I love playing tanks and healers in MMO's, as well as the complex support classes..  You're right, everyone wants to be the hero, nobody wants to tank or heal.  I think it's mostly because those two jobs tend to take a lot more skill (in MMO's) of a different type.  The reason I'm not too interested in the Sunsinger is that most of the support role will be based on just being there (passive aura effect) vs the Defender Titan that needs to strategically place his bubble.
  
 Also, if you believe Datto, the Sunsinger is actually potentially a very potent DPS class.  The Striker Titan gets the flashbang grenades which are amazing support in PvE as it stuns enemies in a small radius for a few seconds.
  
 I'm not saying you should play Titan; just saying that Titan is also a utility class but of a different flavor.  Hunter is the only class that seems to be straight dps with both subclasses.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I love playing tanks and healers in MMO's, as well as the complex support classes..  You're right, everyone wants to be the hero, nobody wants to tank or heal.  I think it's mostly because those two jobs tend to take a lot more skill (in MMO's) of a different type.  The reason I'm not too interested in the Sunsinger is that most of the support role will be based on just being there (passive aura effect) vs the Defender Titan that needs to strategically place his bubble.
> 
> Also, if you believe Datto, the Sunsinger is actually potentially a very potent DPS class.  The Striker Titan gets the flashbang grenades which are amazing support in PvE as it stuns enemies in a small radius for a few seconds.
> 
> I'm not saying you should play Titan; just saying that Titan is also a utility class but of a different flavor.  Hunter is the only class that seems to be straight dps with both subclasses.


 
  
 Being able to buff just by being in the area ensures that you're not relegated to being a "healbot" of sorts. It lets you take part in the firefights while still empowering your party. Sure there's a bit less of the flashiness that everyone likes but it's all about end numbers really. If everyone lives and the enemies fall around me, I'm doing my job properly. If I can do that while shooting said enemies in the face, then I'm enjoying my job that much more.
  
 You tank, I heal/buff, others provide big damages and we're golden.  And even then it still seems like the game plays well when all players are DPS builds.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Im doing Warlock then Hunter. I'm a sucker for fast characters. Not a fan of Tanks in general.

OMG YES. Redbox has Last of Us Remastered, so I'm gonna rent that when I get off work. So... Xillia and Diablo will need a few days break.

Now if only they actually updated their site so it showed ps4 games for rent instead of me having to go to every redbox to find them...


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Being able to buff just by being in the area ensures that you're not relegated to being a "healbot" of sorts. It lets you take part in the firefights while still empowering your party. Sure there's a bit less of the flashiness that everyone likes but it's all about end numbers really. If everyone lives and the enemies fall around me, I'm doing my job properly. If I can do that while shooting said enemies in the face, then I'm enjoying my job that much more.
> 
> You tank, I heal/buff, others provide big damages and we're golden.  And even then it still seems like the game plays well when all players are DPS builds.


 
 Good points.  I'm not sure the all-dps model will work when it comes to hard-mode strikes and the raids.  It'll be good to have a well-balanced group.


----------



## Evshrug

Not to turn this into the Destiny thread, but I'm looking forward to the Vault of Glass super hard challenges with you guys someday.

I liked the warlord for entirely flashy reasons... The cloth robes, the idea of a wizard in space after so much time playing gun games... But in the beta, I liked it for area control (the super) and how the void walker subclass let you use that burst damage more often. The other thing about the beta was that I ended up doing amazingly well with the Titan striker for some reason, the hunter's speed wasn't that much faster for me.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *Not to turn this into the Destiny thread*, but I'm looking forward to the Vault of Glass super hard challenges with you guys someday.
> 
> I liked the warlord for entirely flashy reasons... The cloth robes, the idea of a wizard in space after so much time playing gun games... But in the beta, I liked it for area control (the super) and how the void walker subclass let you use that burst damage more often. The other thing about the beta was that I ended up doing amazingly well with the Titan striker for some reason, the hunter's speed wasn't that much faster for me.


 
  
 Well, there _is_ a Destiny thread now that you mention it...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/730736/destiny


----------



## SteveGo

Just wanted to post that I finally have my PS4 and a 2011 Astro Mixamp paired with some Q701s and it is amazing. Thank you to MLE and everyone else that has contributed to this thread. I never realized what I was missing. I don't even have an amp yet but the detail and depth and refined bass is so great. I can only imagine how these will open up once amped further. I'm thinking a Schiit Vali, unless anyone has another suggestion. 

Also, add me to the list of people hyped for Destiny. It's basically what got me moving on procuring my setup. I have my Limited Edition copy pre-ordered at Amazon. I'll be starting with the Warlock class. My psn name is DuneDude if anyone wants to play co-op or do some raids eventually.


----------



## Change is Good

stevego said:


> Just wanted to post that I finally have my PS4 and a 2011 Astro Mixamp paired with some Q701s and it is amazing. Thank you to MLE and everyone else that has contributed to this thread. I never realized what I was missing. I don't even have an amp yet but the detail and depth and refined bass is so great. I can only imagine how these will open up once amped further. I'm thinking a Schiit Vali, unless anyone has another suggestion.
> 
> Also, add me to the list of people hyped for Destiny. It's basically what got me moving on procuring my setup. *I have my Limited Edition copy pre-ordered at Amazon.* I'll be starting with the Warlock class. My psn name is DuneDude if anyone wants to play co-op or do some raids eventually.




I'm jelly...


----------



## SteveGo

change is good said:


> I'm jelly...




Keep checking, they've been going in and out of stock at Amazon and Gamestop. Check this thread over at Cheap Ass Gamer, they're always posting updates on when and where they come back in stock. Ghost Editions are a different story, those haven't been popping up at all.


----------



## batmaneatsrats

Hi Everyone! I'm trying to decide between the HD598, AKG 612, and AKGQ701. I've spent hours looking at mixed reviews between all of them. I am having a really really difficult time deciding between the three. I would be using them for heavy gaming, listening to movie soundtracks, Legend of Korra Soundtrack and watching actual movies. I am really torn between the three and would love some responses  Planning on using my 2013 astro mix amp pro. What external amp should I get and what cable is necessary to attach with Astro Mixamp? I'm thinking of going with the AKG 612 I've heard it's better than the Q701. Can't stress how much I would appreciate multiple responses.
  
 Thank you guys again this has been a great forum for narrowing my search!
 Lastly should I get a portable external amp like FiiOx1 for the astro mix amp?


----------



## Yethal

batmaneatsrats said:


> Hi Everyone! I'm trying to decide between the HD598, AKG 612, and AKGQ701. I've spent hours looking at mixed reviews between all of them. I am having a really really difficult time deciding between the three. I would be using them for heavy gaming, listening to movie soundtracks, Legend of Korra Soundtrack and watching actual movies. I am really torn between the three and would love some responses  Planning on using my 2013 astro mix amp pro. What external amp should I get and what cable is necessary to attach with Astro Mixamp? I'm thinking of going with the AKG 612 I've heard it's better than the Q701. Can't stress how much I would appreciate multiple responses.
> 
> Thank you guys again this has been a great forum for narrowing my search!
> Lastly should I get a portable external amp like FiiOx1 for the astro mix amp?


 
 Depends on the budget. If You have the money go for Q701,
 then buy one of the amps mentioned in the first post of this thread
 and connect it with 3.5mm to rca cable
 Get a desktop amp
  
 And what is most important, get hyped for Destiny
  
 I'm afraid I won't be able to play with You guys, even though I work the afternoon shift right now the timezone difference might be too big.


----------



## batmaneatsrats

Hahahaha I am super hyped for Destiny! Do you really think the Q701 is the best all around? Not really questioning just want to be sure. How is the FiiO E17 or Shiit Magni?. What would I need to plug it into my Astro mix amp? If I wanted to use the one of the headsets with my iPhone/Macbook pro how would I connect from the FiiO E17 or Shiit Magni? Does the headset plug into the mix amp or amp? Thanks again


----------



## martin vegas

Must be only me who isn't bothered about destiny!


----------



## Stillhart

batmaneatsrats said:


> Hi Everyone! I'm trying to decide between the HD598, AKG 612, and AKGQ701. I've spent hours looking at mixed reviews between all of them. I am having a really really difficult time deciding between the three. I would be using them for heavy gaming, listening to movie soundtracks, Legend of Korra Soundtrack and watching actual movies. I am really torn between the three and would love some responses  Planning on using my 2013 astro mix amp pro. What external amp should I get and what cable is necessary to attach with Astro Mixamp? I'm thinking of going with the AKG 612 I've heard it's better than the Q701. Can't stress how much I would appreciate multiple responses.
> 
> Thank you guys again this has been a great forum for narrowing my search!
> Lastly should I get a portable external amp like FiiOx1 for the astro mix amp?



I have the Q701 and love it. I hear the K612 has a slightly more balanced sound signature, which some people prefer to the Q, despite its being somewhat less refined. Based on your uses, I think a 612 might be better.

Re amps, anything mentioned in the guide will be fine.


----------



## Evshrug

stevego said:


> Just wanted to post that I finally have my PS4 and a 2011 Astro Mixamp paired with some Q701s and it is amazing. Thank you to MLE and everyone else that has contributed to this thread. I never realized what I was missing. I don't even have an amp yet but the detail and depth and refined bass is so great. I can only imagine how these will open up once amped further. I'm thinking a Schiit Vali, unless anyone has another suggestion.
> 
> Also, add me to the list of people hyped for Destiny. It's basically what got me moving on procuring my setup. I have my Limited Edition copy pre-ordered at Amazon. I'll be starting with the Warlock class. My psn name is DuneDude if anyone wants to play co-op or do some raids eventually.



DuneDude, cooool! And YUP, it's much more immersive now, huh? There are even times when I go to the movie theater now and think "this bass is way too boomy and overblown, and the screen is a bit fuzzy... I'd rather watch this at home."



change is good said:


> I'm jelly...



I got the limited edition preordered the second time it went back into stock after the initial stock was sold out. I went I to gamestop asking if they had been restocked and if I could upgrade my preorder, they said it was out everywhere, I showed them on my phone and cancelled that preorder and got on Amazon 



batmaneatsrats said:


> Hi Everyone! I'm trying to decide between the HD598, AKG 612, and AKGQ701. I've spent hours looking at mixed reviews between all of them. I am having a really really difficult time deciding between the three. I would be using them for heavy gaming, listening to movie soundtracks, Legend of Korra Soundtrack and watching actual movies. I am really torn between the three and would love some responses  Planning on using my 2013 astro mix amp pro. What external amp should I get and what cable is necessary to attach with Astro Mixamp? I'm thinking of going with the AKG 612 I've heard it's better than the Q701. Can't stress how much I would appreciate multiple responses.
> 
> Thank you guys again this has been a great forum for narrowing my search!
> Lastly should I get a portable external amp like FiiOx1 for the astro mix amp?



The FiiO X1 is more of a music player like an iPod than an external amp. As far as Q701 vs K612, the Q701 is only slightly technically better in detail and soundstage reproduction (soundstage being the more obvious), but some people might better PREFER the same-volume-balance of the K612 throughout the frequency range or PREFER the more sparkly highs and midbass of the Q701. I find the Q701 to be a bit more fun and musical, the K612 has nice mids that keep it fun too but it's more polite on treble and bass so easier to listen to when my ears are tired. Neither have the strongest sensitivity ratings, so you'll need to turn the volume up a bit more than with cheaper headphones (I've also found them less susceptible to some kinds of background noise from audio gear, which is nice). I love my Q701, it's an amazing value and has been compared to many other headphones and been the winner/kept me from buying other headphones, and I recently got to demo the K612 and found it to have much of what I liked about the Q701 at a great price.
I have not heard the HD598, but it's not really in the same class. The Q701 and K612 compare more to the HD650 and HD600 respectively, the Q701 has just come down so much in price that the cost is similar. Read Mad Lust Envy and other's reviews on the HD598 to make your own conclusion.

Some great amp choices are tube hybrids like the Project Starlight by Garage1217, Schiit Audio's Vali, and I recently saw Audio Advisor has a HiFiman EF2A tube amp demo unit on sale for $99. I personally really enjoy the musicality of tube amps, and changing the tonality by trying different tubes for around $20, the old stuff is great for cheap compared to the low-cost new Chinese made stuff. There is good new stock Chinese tubes, but they're more expensive.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Depends on the budget. If You have the money go for Q701,
> then buy one of the amps mentioned in the first post of this thread
> and connect it with 3.5mm to rca cable
> Get a desktop amp
> ...



Well, Mad works the night shift and sleeps during the afternoon, so maybe... But I think sometimes he likes playing solo.




batmaneatsrats said:


> Hahahaha I am super hyped for Destiny! Do you really think the Q701 is the best all around? Not really questioning just want to be sure. How is the FiiO E17 or Shiit Magni?. What would I need to plug it into my Astro mix amp? If I wanted to use the one of the headsets with my iPhone/Macbook pro how would I connect from the FiiO E17 or Shiit Magni? Does the headset plug into the mix amp or amp? Thanks again




The E17 is very versatile, but I wouldn't recommend it for Fullsize AKGs, the E17's power current output would limit the AKG's dynamics a bit. I'd still recommend one of the tube hybrids I just mentioned in my last post, but the solid state Magni would be a fine choice too. There are a lot of desktop amp choices, but having one makes a nice difference.


----------



## Change is Good

Ev, I'm double jelly, now...

I was lucky to get a PS4 on launch night at my local walmart. I can only hope I have the same luck with getting a LE copy of Destiny.


----------



## G3org3

stevego said:


> Just wanted to post that I finally have my PS4 and a 2011 Astro Mixamp paired with some Q701s and it is amazing. Thank you to MLE and everyone else that has contributed to this thread. I never realized what I was missing. I don't even have an amp yet but the detail and depth and refined bass is so great. I can only imagine how these will open up once amped further. I'm thinking a Schiit Vali, unless anyone has another suggestion.
> 
> Also, add me to the list of people hyped for Destiny. It's basically what got me moving on procuring my setup. I have my Limited Edition copy pre-ordered at Amazon. I'll be starting with the Warlock class. My psn name is DuneDude if anyone wants to play co-op or do some raids eventually.




I use the schiit vali with my q701s plus astro mixamp. The vali made a huge difference IMO


----------



## Evshrug

Well you'd be triple-filtered high-end jelly to know that on Monday, Evshrug had a little wine and spent the entire evening perusing K612 eBay ads, apparently finding the magical deal and I have a new pair heading my way, arriving Wednesday just in time for low-fatigue listening. I wish you similar great luck (the wine was a 2006 Meritage)


----------



## Change is Good

Nah...


----------



## batmaneatsrats

Thank you so much I really appreciate it!


----------



## batmaneatsrats

Thank you so so much everyone. I really appreciate the fact you all took time to fully answer my question. I was really worried about which headset to get. I think I"ll either go with the 612 or the Q701. Do I plug the headset into the astro mix amp or the external amp? And does the RCA to 3.5 go from the external to Astro mix amp? I'm looking at these amps Garage1217, Schiit Audio's Vali, and I recently saw Audio Advisor has a HiFiman EF2A.


----------



## Stillhart

batmaneatsrats said:


> Thank you so so much everyone. I really appreciate the fact you all took time to fully answer my question. I was really worried about which headset to get. I think I"ll either go with the 612 or the Q701. Do I plug the headset into the astro mix amp or the external amp? And does the RCA to 3.5 go from the external to Astro mix amp? I'm looking at these amps Garage1217, Schiit Audio's Vali, and I recently saw Audio Advisor has a HiFiman EF2A.


 
 There's a little graphic in the guide that shows how to hook everything up.


----------



## Nirraven

I am searching for an STX upgrade, but i am not sure what i should get...
  
 I have a AKG 702 and i love the great soundstage and i also wanna an op amp what gives me a better soundstage and maybe a little bit more punchie bass.
  
 I heared the muses 01 or 02 have a good soundstage but what would better for my taste?
  
 I also heared good things in the asus essence thread about the LME49990, can anyone describe me the differences between muses01/02 and LME49990?


----------



## JayL

axelcloris said:


> So you go from the AUX in on the back of the Tx to the USB device you linked? This sounds vaguely familiar but I honestly wasn't paying attention back then.


 
 I haven't tried it personally, as I have the real astro usb cable, BUT, I have been told no other usb adapter/soundcard works, makes no sense and don't know why


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, I'll definitely group up with you guys (I played with Evs a bit). Just expecting a huge gap in terms of general level and loot.




I had a lot of fun laughing and exploring with you, even though I had been playing awhile already. I like loot and I definitely like exploring (No Man's Sky will be a must-play for me), but I also like joshing around with friends. Again, not to make this another Destiny thread, but this live action video has the feels of what I want playing to be like:

[video]http://youtu.be/9ZyQK6kUdWQ[/video]

Also, I got a Blue Microphone Snowball (two actually, one seller is being a flake and I'll be able to dispute it tomorrow) that will hopefully solve all my communication problems, and I found out that you can actually adjust mic gain within the PS4 in the audio devices settings. Me Gusta!


----------



## Yethal

jayl said:


> I haven't tried it personally, as I have the real astro usb cable, BUT, I have been told no other usb adapter/soundcard works, makes no sense and don't know why


 
 The usb soundcards go for 1.99$ and You probably already have 3.5mm cables so no harm in trying


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I had a lot of fun laughing and exploring with you, even though I had been playing awhile already. I like loot and I definitely like exploring (No Man's Sky will be a must-play for me), but I also like joshing around with friends. Again, not to make this another Destiny thread, but this live action video has the feels of what I want playing to be like:
> 
> [video]http://youtu.be/9ZyQK6kUdWQ[/video]
> 
> Also, I got a Blue Microphone Snowball (two actually, one seller is being a flake and I'll be able to dispute it tomorrow) that will hopefully solve all my communication problems, and I found out that you can actually adjust mic gain within the PS4 in the audio devices settings. Me Gusta!




I have a chrome Snowball at home waiting to be tested with my PS4. I'm wondering how I can set it up so that the cable across the floor doesn't get in the way. Picked up mine from BuyDig the other day for $30 shipped.

Also, those $0.97 boom mics from RadioShack are hard to track down. I hope that the next one I visit has them in stock. Good thing the stores are all next door to places I need to be anyways.

One of the two will end up getting used with my setup at home. The boom is more convenient but the Blue better sounding.


----------



## Evshrug

Buydig sure doesn't have any snowballs left at this particular moment... That's a very low price for a new one! Mine is also chrome, with shipping (and a pop filter) it came to $40 used, should be arriving tomorrow. It's a $70 microphone, I believe?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

stillhart said:


> Akira (original ****ty English dub memorized!),
> Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Appleseed, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion.
> 
> There, now I feel less left out.




Cowboy Bebop, don't get me started.... All time fave anime right there. I want to buy the blueray of the full series when it comes out in America soon


----------



## Stillhart

My Playstation Gold Wireless Headset came in today.  It's on the charger now.  Hopefully I'll get some gaming time in today to test it out and report back.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Akira (original ****ty English dub memorized!), Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Appleseed, Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion.
> 
> There, now I feel less left out.




Yeah, these are the anime I know best, and the Studio Ghibli productions. You saw Trigun too, right? I've seen a smattering of others, plenty of Fullmetal Alchemist but I didn't really get into it, not much has caught my attention as great story in my light exploration lately except Psycho Pass (recommended for Ghost in the Shell fans) and Sword Art Online, which gripped me pretty strongly for some reason.

Stillhart, you gonna try BF4 with those PS Gold headphones? That is, if the server is back up from yesterday. IMO from a purely directional/soundwhoring perspective, CoD is better (and Destiny), but eventually you've gotta play the games you wanna play.




bunnynamedfrank said:


> Cowboy Bebop, don't get me started.... All time fave anime right there. I want to buy the blueray of the full series when it comes out in America soon



I have the first and last "sessions" and the movie on DVD... Loved the music in that series! I now have a random craving to watch Batman, the animated series (the classic one!)


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Yeah, these are the anime I know best, and the Studio Ghibli productions. You saw Trigun too, right? I've seen a smattering of others, plenty of Fullmetal Alchemist but I didn't really get into it, not much has caught my attention as great story in my light exploration lately except Psycho Pass (recommended for Ghost in the Shell fans) and Sword Art Online, which gripped me pretty strongly for some reason.
> 
> Stillhart, you gonna try BF4 with those PS Gold headphones? That is, if the server is back up from yesterday. IMO from a purely directional/soundwhoring perspective, CoD is better (and Destiny), but eventually you've gotta play the games you wanna play.
> I have the first and last "sessions" and the movie on DVD... Loved the music in that series! I now have a random craving to watch Batman, the animated series (the classic one!)


 
 I have the whole 5-disc OST for Cowboy Bebop, as well as the remix disc, which is awesome.  Randomly going to throw Wolf's Rain and Last Exile out there as two more awesome series that I enjoyed back in my "download the fansub as soon as it's released in Japan and then translated" days.
  
 Regarding the headset, BF4 and TLOU are the only "real" games I have to test it with right now.  I'm sure there will be plenty of testing going on next week when Destiny comes out.  I'll have the HE-4's by then too.  :-D


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

The music in bebop is EXCELLENT. Space lion on the k712's was awesome


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Buydig sure doesn't have any snowballs left at this particular moment... That's a very low price for a new one! Mine is also chrome, with shipping (and a pop filter) it came to $40 used, should be arriving tomorrow. It's a $70 microphone, I believe?


 
  
 They're $50 and then the promo code BEHEARD takes off $20, so you can imagine that they sold out pretty quickly.  And I have pop filters just laying around my house. Guess that's one of the upsides to my audio work.


----------



## fullmoon280

Im currently im the market for a new headset(dont have alot of money right now)and i was looking at the skullcandy slyr.Currently on amazon there is a used like new pair fullfilled by amazon for $30.In the description it says its a open package and was tested/repackaged in the original box(i assume with all the cables to)with no scratches or defects.Is it worth it to grab it used or should i just get it new for extra $20.


----------



## Evshrug

Pretty good deal, I'd just get it used 

Maybe put that $20 towards a Turtle Beach DSS on eBay.


----------



## fullmoon280

i have a astro mixamp just no headset cause my dog ate it T_T


----------



## Stillhart

fullmoon280 said:


> Im currently im the market for a new headset(dont have alot of money right now)and i was looking at the skullcandy slyr.Currently on amazon there is a used like new pair fullfilled by amazon for $30.In the description it says its a open package and was tested/repackaged in the original box(i assume with all the cables to)with no scratches or defects.Is it worth it to grab it used or should i just get it new for extra $20.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Pretty good deal, I'd just get it used
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Agreed, that's a great deal.  I've gotten lots of used-like new items off AWD and they're usually just open-box items.
  
 In other news, the Sony Playstation Gold Wireless Headset is... not so good.  
  
The plus sides: wireless, surround, cheap

The minus sides: mic apparently sounds horrible, I can hear myself in the headphones (the mic is being piped through for some reason?), it doesn't isolate at all but it also doesn't give you the soundstage of an open can (so worst of both worlds), it's super cheaply built, the SQ is nothing to write home about, it's uncomfortable after about 2 hours, it's hot all the time.

 

I don't know that I'd recommend these to anyone unless you absolutely positively *need *wireless and surround and can't afford anything better.  Fortunately for Sony, there's not really much that compares on paper in this price range.


----------



## batmaneatsrats

Can I use my AKG q701 with Shiit vali and Rca to 3.5 into a belkin audio splitter to a 2013 Astro mixamp Pro while my friend just directly puts his A30's directly into the Belkin audio splitter as well? So we'd be sharing the Mixamp pro and still get virtual surround sound effect? Is it too much power being taken from the Astro Mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> In other news, the Sony Playstation Gold Wireless Headset is... not so good.
> 
> The plus sides: wireless, surround, cheap
> 
> ...


 
 And how does it sound when plugged to an amp?


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone else here like to smuggle electronics into the house on their wife/girlfriend? Hehe


----------



## Stillhart

batmaneatsrats said:


> Can I use my AKG q701 with Shiit vali and Rca to 3.5 into a belkin audio splitter to a 2013 Astro mixamp Pro while my friend just directly puts his A30's directly into the Belkin audio splitter as well? So we'd be sharing the Mixamp pro and still get virtual surround sound effect? Is it too much power being taken from the Astro Mixamp?


 
 You're trying to have two people listen with headphones at the same time?  Why not use speakers?
  


yethal said:


> And how does it sound when plugged to an amp?


 
 I don't think you can plug it into an amp.  It only works on wireless (via USB dongle).  Tho that does remind me that it's supposed to sound better when the USB is plugged in because it'll be pulling more power than just off the batteries.  I'll have to try that tonight.


----------



## Yethal

One guy on this thread said that sony headset sounds like beyerdynamic dt770 when connected with a cable so it might be worth a shot.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> One guy on this thread said that sony headset sounds like beyerdynamic dt770 when connected with a cable so it might be worth a shot.


 
  
 I'll try it just to test the sound, but I would never use it that way regularly.  I sit across the room from my PS4 and it's kind of counter-productive to buy a wireless headset and have a wire across the room.  lol


----------



## retiredat21

Hi guys.. i was just wondering if anyone herr has an experience with thr creative omni surround 5.1? And is it useable with consoles? Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

retiredat21 said:


> Hi guys.. i was just wondering if anyone herr has an experience with thr creative omni surround 5.1? And is it useable with consoles? Thanks!


 
 Yes, several of us have the Omni.  I'm a big fan.  Unfortunately, it won't work with consoles, just PC.  If you want something similar that works with consoles, try the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB.


----------



## batmaneatsrats

It's actually the none wireless 2013 Astro mixamp  my bad :0. Thanks Stillhart! it still sounds like it won't work


----------



## imac2much

retiredat21 said:


> Hi guys.. i was just wondering if anyone herr has an experience with thr creative omni surround 5.1? And is it useable with consoles? Thanks!


 
 I enjoyed the Omni quite a bit for what it delivered.  I now use a Concero as I thought the DAC in the Omni was holding my sound system back, but for gaming purposes it worked great.  I actually can't tell the difference between my Concero + Soloist DAC/Amp vs Omni when it comes to gaming, and I do enjoy the SBX surround a lot more than Razer surround.  Unfortunately, I had to switch as the difference between the two pairs for music was too substantial, and I didn't want to switch cables around constantly when playing games.  I also realized I don't play too many games that utilize surround since I don't play FPS much, haha.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Id like SBX for my Pc games, but since I already have THX Tru Studio built into my laptop (meaning no extra devices to lug around), and the Xonar U3 if I ever play at home (I actually just prefer using my soundbar at home for PC games), I feel the Omni would be lost on me. I could probably upgrade my Alienware to have a soundcard with SBX though. Not sure if the Recon 3Di that I have is soldered in, or integrated with the MOBO. Alienware tends to have bolt on parts. I should probably find out, I really want SBX. I'm happy with THX Tru Studio, but I know SBX is basically better in all aspects. I'm much too lazy to actually use the U3... which is just collecting dust atm.

Rented Last of Us Remastered... and OMG, it's so amazing. I'll be so sad when it finishes.

I dunno what turned me off from playing it last time on PS3. I had rented it and turned it off so quickly. Maybe the 1080p/60fps gameplay this time around won me over.


----------



## Stillhart

imac2much said:


> I enjoyed the Omni quite a bit for what it delivered.  I now use a Concero as I thought the DAC in the Omni was holding my sound system back, but for gaming purposes it worked great.  I actually can't tell the difference between my Concero + Soloist DAC/Amp vs Omni when it comes to gaming, and I do enjoy the SBX surround a lot more than Razer surround.  Unfortunately, I had to switch as the difference between the two pairs for music was too substantial, and I didn't want to switch cables around constantly when playing games.  I also realized I don't play too many games that utilize surround since I don't play FPS much, haha.



It's entirely possible to bypass the DAC on the omni while still using it for surround in games. It's what I do and it works great. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## martin vegas

mad lust envy said:


> Id like SBX for my Pc games, but since I already have THX Tru Studio built into my laptop (meaning no extra devices to lug around), and the Xonar U3 if I ever play at home (I actually just prefer using my soundbar at home for PC games), I feel the Omni would be lost on me. I could probably upgrade my Alienware to have a soundcard with SBX though. Not sure if the Recon 3Di that I have is soldered in, or integrated with the MOBO. Alienware tends to have bolt on parts. I should probably find out, I really want SBX. I'm happy with THX Tru Studio, but I know SBX is basically better in all aspects. I'm much too lazy to actually use the U3... which is just collecting dust atm.
> 
> Rented Last of Us Remastered... and OMG, it's so amazing. I'll be so sad when it finishes.
> 
> I dunno what turned me off from playing it last time on PS3. I had rented it and turned it off so quickly. Maybe the 1080p/60fps gameplay this time around won me over.


 

 I don't think the gameplay on the last of us remastered is as good as the story..zombies seem to be able to grab you without you being able to move out of the way from them!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> I don't think the gameplay on the last of us remastered is as good as the story..zombies seem to be able to grab you without you being able to move out of the way from them!


 
 I have to agree.  I love pretty much everything about the game (graphics, audio, story, immersion, atmosphere, etc) except the gameplay.  I haven't finished it yet because I get really damn annoyed when I have to deal with the stealth sections and it's effectively impossible to go all stealth.  I might restart the game on Easy mode just to blow through the story.


----------



## conquerator2

martin vegas said:


> I don't think the gameplay on the last of us remastered is as good as the story..zombies seem to be able to grab you without you being able to move out of the way from them!


 
 Yeah, I pointed out the seemingly scripted grabs in the PS3 version... It's especially annoying when 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



you play as Ellie on grounded... Insta-kill...


----------



## RXShadow

stillhart said:


> I have to agree.  I love pretty much everything about the game (graphics, audio, story, immersion, atmosphere, etc) except the gameplay.  I haven't finished it yet because I get really damn annoyed when I have to deal with the stealth sections and it's effectively impossible to go all stealth.  I might restart the game on Easy mode just to blow through the story.


 
  
 Yeah, I also feel the same way. If it wasn't for the story, I would never bother moving forward. I still haven't finished it actually because I wanna get the remastered edition when I get my PS4.


----------



## Stillhart

HiFiMan HE-4 on my ears right now.  The detail and clarity of these makes the Q701 sound veiled and muddy.  Definitely the best sounding headphones I've heard to date.  The treble is a bit peaky and there's a slight U shape to the sound, making these a little fatiguing.  But man, what a sound!


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> HiFiMan HE-4 on my ears right now.  The detail and clarity of these makes the Q701 sound veiled and muddy.  Definitely the best sounding headphones I've heard to date.  The treble is a bit peaky and there's a slight U shape to the sound, making these a little fatiguing.  But man, what a sound!




Might we see an upgrade in the foreseeable future? Woop woop!


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Might we see an upgrade in the foreseeable future? Woop woop!


 
  
 Honestly, the only reason I'd consider NOT upgrading to these right away is that they're not suitable for gaming because they need a ton of juice.  Mad had his Mixamp running through a Schiit Lyr to use these for gaming!  lol
  
 I'd have to figure out what do do for a gaming headset if I got these.  I don't think I could convince my wife to let me keep these for music and the Q for gaming...


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> Honestly, the only reason I'd consider NOT upgrading to these right away is that they're not suitable for gaming because they need a ton of juice.  Mad had his Mixamp running through a Schiit Lyr to use these for gaming!  lol
> 
> *I'd have to figure out what do do for a gaming headset if I got these.  I don't think I could convince my wife to let me keep these for music and the Q for gaming...*




HP200...

Woop woop!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE4 is really an amazing headphone. Yes, slight u shaped sound, but otherwise, it's an unbelievable sounding headphone. Airy, lively, and potent. It's just very demanding of a good, powerful chain. That is the only reason I don't push it as much as something like the AKGs. It sounded different off the SA31 vs the Lyr despite both being very powerful. I think the HE4 benefits from a strong tube hybrid, since it is an airy, more dry sounding planar compared to stuff like the Mad Dog and LCD2. You definitely want a warmer sounding chain.

Guys, even if playing on easy, just PLAY Last of Us. The game is a storytelling masterpiece. It puts so many movies to absolute shame. i dare say, it even puts Walking Dead to shame as that type of specific drama.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> The HE4 is really an amazing headphone. Yes, slight u shaped sound, but otherwise, it's an unbelievable sounding headphone. Airy, lively, and potent. It's just very demanding of a good, powerful chain. That is the only reason I don't push it as much as something like the AKGs. It sounded different off the SA31 vs the Lyr despite both being very powerful. I think the HE4 benefits from a strong tube hybrid, since it is an airy, more dry sounding planar compared to stuff like the Mad Dog and LCD2. You definitely want a warmer sounding chain.
> 
> *Guys, even if playing on easy, just PLAY Last of Us. The game is a storytelling masterpiece. It puts so many movies to absolute shame. i dare say, it even puts Walking Dead to shame as that type of specific drama.*


 
 I've been preaching that a year ago... I can only +1...


----------



## imac2much

stillhart said:


> It's entirely possible to bypass the DAC on the omni while still using it for surround in games. It's what I do and it works great. You CAN have your cake and eat it too.


 
 Yeah I'm aware of that but I didn't want to run so many cables extra cables around.  I may end up doing that still, but I'd need an optical digital to coax digital cable since the concero only has coax digital input.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TWO MORE DAYS. COME ON DAMN IT.


----------



## Evshrug

I have these feels^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## Change is Good

Wait, I thought we were all anticipating NHL 15 on September 9?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, celebrating the 15 year anniversary of:


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Wait, I thought we were all anticipating NHL 15 on September 9?


 
 I am


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mad lust envy said:


>





> this is fantastic....


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, celebrating the 15 year anniversary of:





>





> was playing Tony hawk 2 on dreamcast emulator last night.. wrecking some Venice Beach to be exact. I have the utmost respect for the Dreamcast. Especially Shenmue. Needless to say i love the pic!!





>


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, celebrating the 15 year anniversary of:




OMG, you think Yu Suzuki is finally going to come from left field and release shenmue 3??!?!??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That would be amazing, but Sega is too busy trying to keep Sonic relevant to fund for Shenmue. :'(


----------



## Fegefeuer

Shenmue funding would mean crazy sums of money. Back then it was already beyond crazy, although also due to bad management.
  
 A worthy Shenmue 3 won't be less than a 100 million. GTA 5 was 276 Million. 
  
 Edit: I can get a HE-4 for around 400 bucks. *Worth it? *


----------



## pack21

mad lust envy said:


> I prefer the MA900 for it's more all rounder nature, while for sound whoring, the Q701 is better, just hate the headband, so much. I would suggest getting a newer K702 over the Q701 instead. Which then you can also buy some K712 pads, for a more all rounder, warmer sound for the K702 (giving you options for more soundwhoring with standard pads or more fun and warmth with K712 pads, which will be better than the MA900.)




I have now my new K702 cans, and I'm loving it, still in burn-in process, but I think i must keep my MA900 because i married with them, more air and out of head sensation than K702. 

Where I can found K712 ear pads?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look for AKG contact info on their website, and perhaps ask for a part number to purchase.

As for the HE-4, it's $450 new to begin with, so not sure how $50 off is that good a deal. But yeah, the quality of sound is worth that and then some, assuming you're not hooking it up to bad equipment.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, it's 600-650 Dollars after import duties so 380 Dollars is a bit less. Can't get a new one in Deutschland.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, ok. Makes much more sense. As long as you understand that it's slight v shaped response with energetic treble, and a bitch to drive, we're good, lol.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I am still waiting for my Hifiman  HE-4 to arrive.  I have spent a good amount of time with the HE-400 and the AKG 712 using both a Musical Fidelity X-Can v2 and Schiit Asguard 2.  Both of these are tube amps and the MF unit has been broken in for 10 years where the Asguard has about 5-10 hours on it on constant use.  I am doing 90% movies, 10% gaming.  I believe movie and gaming have similar requirements (positioning cues, soundstage, immersion, clarity of voices, etc..)..
  
 I am leaning toward the AKG 712 right now.  The HE-400 has deeper bass which I love but has a very flat soundstage..I never get the feeling like I'm in the middle of a scene... more like a private concert up on a stage..if that makes sense.  I have high hope the HE-4 might be the best of these 2.  I have about 5 days before I have to send back what I don't want for headphones.  Anyone have any experience on AKG vs. HE-4's for movies?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree about the HE-400 but also for the HE-500. Both soundstages never "grabbed" me in terms of spaciousness and building a world around me, they were flat without the sense of a cohorent round space. The differences in building the soundstage were quite noticable when I compared them with the T90 (I liked the HE-500 quite better for music though).
  
 An ortho with HE-560s soundstage with HE-400 bass + HD 650 mids please. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Can't say anything about the HE-4, I still remember it was almost my first choice when I wanted to upgrade from my K701 but the name Hifiman didn't ring a lot of bells. Reviews were good after I discovered them on ebay and wanted to learn more, and then I discovered Head-fi. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  


Spoiler: !



*******it


----------



## MichaelJames99

so which headphones did you end up liking for movies with a lot of surround information?
 I watch a lot of sci-fi and action movies
  
 I've been demoing clips from the following movies:
 Brave
 Avengers
 Dark Knight
 Master and Commander
 Transformers
  
 Music:
 Eagles Hotel California 5.1
 Pink Floyd Money 5.1
  
 On the HE-400, the back rear sound stage (right behind my head)  is almost zero.  Rear right and rear left are more near field.
 On the AKG 712 I am getting a much larger pan effect (depth of field/depth of stage) and the direct rear is audible at the right distance. 
 The AKG is much more balanced.. which some might say is a little boring.  HE-400 has some great attributes though.. bass is rock solid but I hear a little muddiness some times. (sloppy?).. its that dynamic V shape that some people love.
  
 For me, if I could get the bass from the HE-400 and the soundstage from the AKG, I would be very happy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how you can say that since the HE400 has one of the best depths in soundstage from any headphone I've owned or reviewed. Yes, width isn't amazing, but that is what virtual surround was for.

People really do hear differently.


----------



## MichaelJames99

What I am hearing with the 400's is that everthing is more near field.. like its a couple feet in front  side or in back of me when I watch movies.  And a pan going right rear to rear left has a hole in the middle.
 Whereas the AKG 712 has a lot more depth.. maybe double the distance.  The problem witht he 712 is sometimes I feel like they are "thin" sounding.


----------



## Stillhart

I've got the option to buy these HE-4 that I'm borrowing and I'm seriously considering it.  Also might just jump right up to the HE-500 since it's apparently very similar but with a more neutral sound.  It'll cost a lot more, but everything I've read says it's basically the HE-6 but easier to drive.  
  
 Damn these orthos and their amazing sound and expensive price!
  
 Re the soundstage, I kind of like how the HE-4 still sounds like an open can but it's not quite as massive a soundstage as the Q.  It feels more coherent, but it still has a lot of separation between the instruments, so you kind of get the best of both worlds.  I haven't yet listened to these with a movie; I'll be doing that tonight maybe (I grabbed Pacific Rim to test!)


----------



## Fegefeuer

michaeljames99 said:


> so which headphones did you end up liking for movies with a lot of surround information?
> I watch a lot of sci-fi and action movies
> 
> I've been demoing clips from the following movies:
> ...


 
  
 HD 800 (most accurate, biggest soundstage I ever heard, very balanced, not intimidated by any kind of grand orchestra)
 TH 900 (smaller than the HD 800 but excellent imaging/separation and very cohesive, most immersive headphone I heard due to its very clean, fast and pronounced (sub) bass presentation)
 T1 (like the TH-900, very cohesive soundstage and separation, excellent for movies and gaming but of course like the above a waste if not used for music as well)
 K702 AE (see below for the phantom center part)
 T90 (if only it didn't have that sharp zingy treble, I like its clarity)
 X1 (remove the annoying one noty bass and it'll shock charge other price brackets above it)
  
 All of them very good.
  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> I dunno how you can say that since the HE400 has one of the best depths in soundstage from any headphone I've owned or reviewed. Yes, width isn't amazing, but that is what virtual surround was for.
> 
> People really do hear differently.


 
  
 I played whole games with the HE-500 and various sessions with the HE-400. I could never grab that sense as I did with other headphones. It's really interesting. It's worse with the LCD-2. I noticed the soundstage depth but in total the soundstage was offputting. I had the LCD-2 almost 12 hours on my head each day during loan (not in the bathroom of course 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) but it never reached me. 
  
 At the 2014 Munich High End Fair I listened to them again under various amps (Auralic Taurus, Violectric V281 etc.) and their stage was immediately showing its face again. Not everyone cares a lot about soundstage though and it's fine but for that price that's unacceptable to me. 
  
 With the K7xx series I seem to be one of the few as well who immediately notice the middle presentation in the soundstage that is lacking and more towards the sides. 
  
 I want to listen to this mod though (ignore the hyperbole in the graphics, it's more fun than serious as a comment but it measures pretty good, blue=modded K701).


----------



## Stillhart

Is that the Alpha Pads?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like leather, and I have to say that K701 still looks incredibly attractive with the leather on.

DEFINITELY NOT Alpha Pads. Those look more like LCD2/3 or Jmoney Denon pads.


----------



## Evshrug

They look like Sony XB500 pads
O_O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, XB500 pads have that monster truck bumpiness going on.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE is right, these are LCD-Pads. The whole headphone is modded though, this is not just a padchange.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know that sexy thickness anywhere, having owned the LCD2 myself. Figured the JMoney Denon pads could be a possible alternative. 

Alpha pads aren't that thick, and have a sort of rectangular shape.


----------



## Yethal

http://www.soundblaster.com/x7/
  
 guys
  
 Guys
  
 GUYS!
  
 Looks like we finally got an audiophile goto device
  

Dolby Digital 5.1 decoding
SBX Pro Studio
600ohm built-in amp
can drive passive speakers
Burr-Brown PCM1794 127dB DAC
Burr-Brown PCM4220 ADC
Swappable op/amps
ASIO support
Built-in mic
S/PDIF in/out
Bluetooth and NFC for use with mobile devices
USB and analog line in
Looks badass
Dat built in headphone stand
400$ when it's released


----------



## Fegefeuer

Jesus Christ!


----------



## conquerator2

Seems like the only thing it is missing is DTS support... 
Other than that, it looks pretty rad.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Seems like the only thing it is missing is DTS support...
> Other than that, it looks pretty rad.


 
 That would come in handy, hdmi passthrough would be nice too but, well it's still more than what Astro and Turtle Beach offers


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> That would come in handy, hdmi passthrough would be nice too but, well it's still more than what Astro and Turtle Beach offers


 
 Oh it very much is the first audiophile gaming device there is.
 Though at $400, it would be nice to support lossless [or less lossy] formats, like the DTS or the incoming DH:X.
 Then it'd be an ultimate true-audiophile gaming device


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Oh it very much is the first audiophile gaming device there is.
> Though at $400, it would be nice to support lossless [or less lossy] formats, like the DTS or the incoming DH:X.
> Then it'd be an ultimate true-audiophile gaming device


 
 Sooo, a petition?


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Sooo, a petition?


 
 That's be nice, I guess...


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> http://www.soundblaster.com/x7/
> 
> guys
> 
> ...




HOLY CRAP!
September 9th, what an amazing magical day!

Seriously Yethal, great find!



I gotta sell some stuff...


----------



## martin vegas

I think it will come down in price over time!


----------



## Evshrug

ZxR soundcard originally MSRP'd for like $250, this has better specs and features. How much did the Asus Essence One cost when it came out (this still has better specs/features)? I'm just gonna sell some stuff that this would replace, I'll have little leftover cost to pay


----------



## RXShadow

Yeah, those will replace my Omni very nicely. Just need to hope they bring it worldwide, and quickly


----------



## Stillhart

Overpriced by at least $100 IMHO.  Especially with outdated lack of HDMI and DTS/DH:X.


----------



## AxelCloris

Wow, that thing is absolutely hideous. But it's not about the looks, it's about how it sounds. Time will tell.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Overpriced by at least $100 IMHO.  Especially with outdated lack of HDMI and DTS/DH:X.



But is it outdated if nothing else offers these features in a headphone-centric device? And there's also first-mover risk, even if it was $100 less and sold more, are there enough people who would get one?

Over time it probably will go down in cost, but I mean... DACs alone can easily cost far more than $400, and yet at the same time it is pretty expensive especially for the opamp design (but nothing else with the x7's feature combination). Like Axel said, how it sounds will be the ultimate justification.

I just hope it sounds great as a high-end practical device (practical in it's utility).

Also, new larger iPhones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Huh, it has a built-in two-channel speaker amp. Didn't see that coming.

I'd have a great use for that, but if it behaves like the Sound Core3D cards, then it might not output a headphone-optimized SBX Pro Surround mix over the speaker amp outs, which would greatly hinder its usefulness in driving Stax transformer boxes.

Also, no mentions of DTS or Dolby Pro Logic II decoding are present, which hinders its use for me in console gaming. There's no HDMI audio-in, either.

And for $400? Nope, no way, not happening. I can easily buy an old AVR with Dolby Headphone and another X-Fi Titanium HD for that much. But we'll see what second-hand prices do over time...


----------



## Change is Good

So, I get to pay just as much for a DSP as my console? Pass.... no matter how awesome it sounds. 

I won't even go get a $400 DAC, let alone a $400 DSP.


----------



## l00ease

hey guys, first time posting but been following the thread for a while now
 I recently purchased a refurbished a40 system so that I could get the mixamp and at least a half decent headset for a reasonable price. 
 My plan is to upgrade to a better headphone further along the line but I'd like them to be an all-rounder, something that perhaps excels in gaming (mainly use) but good enough to use with my phone, take to the gym, flights, etc. hopefully something bellow US$200 and that can be use with the boompros, money is tight right now and just to give an idea US$200 is more than the minimum wage in my country plus everything over that pays an additional tax.
 Based on the guide at the beginning I was considering:
 a. Monster's DNA, but usually over us$200 even though amazon had them on sale a few days ago, and I believe I've read that mad has complain about the built quality making it the main issue
 b. Beyerdynamic custom pro, even though they're over 200, amazon usually have them on sale but I haven't seen any reviews or comments on them which worries me.
 c. vmoda's lp2, might be able to find these under 200 somewhere but just like the BCP I haven't seen anybody commenting on these neither.
 d. soundmagic hp200, I know most of you will agree on these BUT before we get ahead of ourselves these don't work with the boompros and as of today I haven't seen them under 200
 I don't like the headband on the AKG's or the X1 nor I like the superlux or hfi-15g (I know I'm just making it harder for me and everybody)
 btw I play BF4 on PS4, if y'all don't mind playing with somebody that runs a 3mb d/l and 768kbps u/l connection (I'm working on upgrading my speeds ) you can add me =D, my psn is lu08is.
 On that note, those of you that play BF4 with surround headphones what settings are you running under speakers type? war tapes, HI-FI, home cinema? I'm running war tapes but I believe I'm in the wrong.
 ps: I apologize for the lengthy post but I appreciate all the help I can get. It may take me a while to buy the next phones and there will probably be new offerings on the market by that time but at least get an idea of what I should aim for


----------



## Yethal

Well, I wouldn't pay 400$ for a DAC either but for a DSP+ DAC + headphone amp + speaker amp + mixer + option to answer calls I think it's a great value.


----------



## Fegefeuer

For 400$ a DTS license should be a realistic Feature


----------



## conquerator2

Well, my DH DSP processor is for sale, if anyone's interested. Details in signature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But will it do SBX surround FROM the optical digital inputs itself? That is the question.


----------



## batmaneatsrats

for $200 I'd look at beyerdynamic 990, AKG 612/Q701, phillips X1


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> But will it do SBX surround FROM the optical digital inputs itself? That is the question.


 
 They said it's console compatible so I'm guessing it does.


----------



## Elf-1

Heey guys, 
  
 first off I want to thank Mad Lust Envy for this amazing guide, it really helps me out a lot! Second while reading the whole guide, there is something I don't understand. I'm looking for a headphone for my PS4 and competitive usage, Mad Lust Envy is saying under review that the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 is the second best for competitive use only beaten by the BeyerDynamic DT770 pro 80's right? However, when I scroll down to the review of the BeyerDynamic DT770 it only gets a 6 for competitive, because of the bass. Am I reading something wrong or is it a mistake?


----------



## Army-Firedawg

elf-1 said:


> Heey guys,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


In terms of bass he's correct but the soundstage accuracy I believe he's refering to would be much more accurate than the Audio Technica's. If anything try the 880 models with a semi-open back that'll drastically help reduce the bass, BUT also highly lessens the isolation factor (do about nothing) so if you're in a louder environment you should still look into the 770's my friend.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Hi 100ease,
  
 for 200$ I would take the AKG 612 and a little Headphone amp like the Behringer HA400. So you can use any USB Soundcard with an Headphone Connection.
 Btw. it is nice to have those four Connections, so you can compare Headphones very easy.
 I don`t own the AKG, but read only good things about it. May be you can get somewhere the Sony MD MA900 for a low Price.
  
 The Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro are very good too. Or you buy the Sennheiser HD 558 and tune them to HD 598 Niveau.


----------



## Army-Firedawg

l00ease said:


> hey guys, first time posting but been following the thread for a while now
> 
> I recently purchased a refurbished a40 system so that I could get the mixamp and at least a half decent headset for a reasonable price.
> 
> ...



 


If you can find it at a good price definitely go with the Beyer's custom One (wish you were coming to my store ours are on clearence and are 115 after tax) but you should be able to find them for roughly 160-180 I'd definitely go for them.


----------



## MichaelJames99

What is the next generation of surround for headphones?  DTS Headphone:X?  How does it compare to Dolby Headphone?  Any downloadable demo videos of actual movie clips or demo clips besides the directional cues?  Would a DTS-X take a non DTS-X sound track and try to make sound 7.1 or 11.1?
  
 I'm starting to think that the headphones are only a small part of getting an out of head experience...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Next gen is ancient gen with much better horse power and more complex Algorithms, Filters. Basically Geometry based rendering, as in coordinates, Materials, Wave Tracing etc. No speaker room or at least a speaker room of min 60 speakers.


----------



## l00ease

thank you all for your input, batman, wulf, firedawg, mad lust for the guide. I'll try to follow your suggestions the best that I can


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does anyone here have experience with *Out of Your Head* and watched movies with it and listened to music?
  
 https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/
  
 I downloaded the "demo" a while ago and it was pretty impressive to listen to with the HD 800. Their virtual speaker room is actual measurement data from real speakers. 
  
 Anyway, these guys now started to turn towards gaming and will be releasing a gaming version of it. Really curious to how it'll end up. SBX, DHP and Co. are all software solutions as well but from too big companies.
  
 Maybe we can give those guys feedback about our preferences? Sure it's no hardware but the thought of a custom or very tailored speaker room is interesting for sure.


----------



## Elf-1

army-firedawg said:


> In terms of bass he's correct but the soundstage accuracy I believe he's refering to would be much more accurate than the Audio Technica's. If anything try the 880 models with a semi-open back that'll drastically help reduce the bass, BUT also highly lessens the isolation factor (do about nothing) so if you're in a louder environment you should still look into the 770's my friend.


 
  
 Oke thanks for your help. While reading the guide and making a short list of the headphones I like to buy, I saw myself comparing the headsets a lot, this one is more fun and that one is more competitive. However, Mad Lust Envy said you should not compare the headsets unless he specifically states so. How are you guys reading the guide then and deciding which headphone is the best for you if you're not allowed to compare the headphones? So you can't say that the AKG K701 is better in competitive aspect than the AKG K612 Pro right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mainly mean not to compare headset scores as they are reflective of my impressions of them ALONE. So if I feel a headset is a 7 in competitive, I mean it as in I feel they are good themselves. Just because an HE4 is a 7 for competitive, and a KSC35 is also a 7 does not make them equal. It just mean I feel they botb do good enough. Get it? 

People are blindly just choosing whatever has a high score, ignoring preferences and differences.

As some of you have already figured it out, it makes more sense to read the review and see if the tonality, benefits, and detriments are to your own personal taste.

I'd gladly take an LCD2's 7 over a K701's 10, etc.


----------



## NamelessPFG

michaeljames99 said:


> What is the next generation of surround for headphones?  DTS Headphone:X?  How does it compare to Dolby Headphone?  Any downloadable demo videos of actual movie clips or demo clips besides the directional cues?  Would a DTS-X take a non DTS-X sound track and try to make sound 7.1 or 11.1?
> I'm starting to think that the headphones are only a small part of getting an out of head experience...


 
  
 It's hard to comment on DTS Headphone:X when there isn't a headphone surround processor available for purchase that uses it yet, to my knowledge. Where's the Turtle Beach TAC, anyway?
  
 I was actually thinking that DTS H:X's main schtick would've only applied to movies in the form of a pre-recorded binaural audio track, but if they can convert existing 5.1/7.1 sources to binaural-esque mixing, as the TAC would imply, then maybe we've got a competitor to DH on that front. Maybe. As usual, these things are personal preference.
  
 It might also be argued that the Smyth Realiser IS the next generation...if you're rich enough to afford it and make a recording in the ideal theater room of your choice using the included in-ear microphones.
  


fegefeuer said:


> Next gen is ancient gen with much better horse power and more complex Algorithms, Filters. Basically Geometry based rendering, as in coordinates, Materials, Wave Tracing etc. No speaker room or at least a speaker room of min 60 speakers.


 
  
 Or in other words, glorious Aureal A3D, gone thanks to Creative being litigious jerks, but not forgotten.
  
 That used to take such a CPU toll for A3D 2.0 wavetracing, back in the Half-Life days. (And now everything GoldSRC-based sounds awful on the Steam release because Valve completely removed hardware-accelerated audio, the jerks.)
  
 Let's hope we can do better with today's unbelievably more powerful CPUs and AMD's TrueAudio DSP. I know we can...but game developers actually have to care enough to implement better native audio mixes first.


----------



## Elf-1

mad lust envy said:


> I mainly mean not to compare headset scores as they are reflective of my impressions of them ALONE. So if I feel a headset is a 7 in competitive, I mean it as in I feel they are good themselves. Just because an HE4 is a 7 for competitive, and a KSC35 is also a 7 does not make them equal. It just mean I feel they botb do good enough. Get it?
> 
> People are blindly just choosing whatever has a high score, ignoring preferences and differences.
> 
> ...


 
 Ah oke, I get it, thanks  
  
 I'm reading a lot of good things about the Philips Fidelio X1, however it's not that competitive, and that is for me one of the most important reasons why I'm buying a headphone to hear footsteps clearly. The bass is too heavy with the X1 right? Is there any way to get less bass (e.g. on Astro Mixamp choose for Competitive mode as an EQ mode?) or should I just go with any other headsets with less bass and therefore better competitive performance? The positive side for me on the other hand is that it can be attached with the V-Moda Mic, which I can buy here in EU, the ModMic instead only is available in US, which for me (living in the Netherlands) is not really an option. 
  
 I'm not that technical, so some of you guys might find this a stupid question (sorry for that). How would you setup the PS4, V-Moda Boompro, Mixamp Pro 2013 and the Philips Fidelio X1?


----------



## Qupie

Hi Elf, I just read your post, I am not an expert by any means, hell this is my 2nd set of headphone, but I bought a K612 after doing some research (90% out of this great topic), and I have never regretted it! They are very comfortable, give an awesome advantage in online gaming, and are great to listen to. The only drawback I found is that they don't match very well with smartphones and the like, but there are solutions for that (I bought an E18, also a great device!)

 I live in the Netherlands myself aswell, if you live near Nijmegen, send me a message, we might be able to arange something so you can try them out! 

 Keep in mind the PS4 does lack some settings at the moment though, which might complicate your chat options with 3rd party headsets (i.e. not the crappy ps4 headsets)
  
 (see http://www.head-fi.org/t/690663/ps4-with-3-5mm-x2-type-headset)
  
 I am writing an 'essay' about it to playstation as we speak  , because it is rediculous the option is not available in party chat (if you use in game chat from destiny for example, the option is available!!!)


----------



## MichaelJames99

Out of Your Head prerendered  demos (Pink Floyd Money, Hotel California, Transformers) are what I have been using to test headphones for the past month. 
 "Alternately, if you just want to hear some sample output from *Out Of Your Head*, you can listen to pre-rendered demo files here."
  
 I have not downloaded their free trial software though.
  
 I'm not sure what to think without having the same demo movie and song clips to compare to using DH or some of the others


----------



## imac2much

I just tried the demos from OoYH and I have to admit that some of the DSP is pretty impressive... especially with the Pink Floyd Money track and the Transformers video clips.  The other video clip demos were not nearly as impressive.
  
 However, when I actually installed the trial and tried some of my music tracks, I was vastly disappointed.  I tried some of my favorite tracks from the Piano Guys and Lindsey Sterling, as well as some classical like Bach, and the various presets ended up sounding muffled and distant.  I thought it was silly that the "bypass filter" mode actually sounds HORRIBLE compared to just closing out of the OoYH application, which may cause some people to think the DSP filters are superior to no filter at all.  
  
 I prefer my music through my default setup of itunes/foobar+wasapi -> concero -> soloist sl -> he-400i.  I've been testing out the Razer Surround demo for DSP in gaming since I don't use my Omni anymore, and while it doesn't seem as good in some aspects, it also isn't as muffled as I remember DH to be with my Xonar.


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> It's hard to comment on DTS Headphone:X when there isn't a headphone surround processor available for purchase that uses it yet, to my knowledge. Where's the Turtle Beach TAC, anyway?


 
  
 I spoke to the TB guys at PAX and they were very certain it wouldn't be out this year.  If you want to test DTSH:X on PC, there's a headset (Z60?) that lets you disconnect the headset from the USB dongle/processor and use your own headphones.  If it wasn't so expensive, and only working on PC, I'd try it.
  


elf-1 said:


> Ah oke, I get it, thanks
> 
> I'm reading a lot of good things about the Philips Fidelio X1, however it's not that competitive, and that is for me one of the most important reasons why I'm buying a headphone to hear footsteps clearly. The bass is too heavy with the X1 right? Is there any way to get less bass (e.g. on Astro Mixamp choose for Competitive mode as an EQ mode?) or should I just go with any other headsets with less bass and therefore better competitive performance? The positive side for me on the other hand is that it can be attached with the V-Moda Mic, which I can buy here in EU, the ModMic instead only is available in US, which for me (living in the Netherlands) is not really an option.
> 
> I'm not that technical, so some of you guys might find this a stupid question (sorry for that). How would you setup the PS4, V-Moda Boompro, Mixamp Pro 2013 and the Philips Fidelio X1?


 
  
 If you want the best sound for FPS (footsteps, etc), I think the X1 isn't your best bet.  It's really "fun" but the bass can be too much.  I'd recommend an AKG or the venerable Audio Technica.  You won't be able to use the Boompro, but I think it's overrated anyways.  Just get one of the cheap clip-on mics, they work really well.


----------



## pack21

I have now a pair of K702, and what I most like with is then is that I can control the amount of bass I want with my MixampPro+C5, the enough for competitive, a bit more for fun and movies, and even more with my C5 boost bass. Very happy with K702.

Bass headphones on their blood, never will be good for competitive FPS.


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> If you want the best sound for FPS (footsteps, etc), I think the X1 isn't your best bet.  It's really "fun" but the bass can be too much.  I'd recommend an AKG or the venerable Audio Technica.  You won't be able to use the Boompro, but I think it's overrated anyways.  Just get one of the cheap clip-on mics, they work really well.


 
  
 Oh oke thanks, I truly want the best sound for FPS, so the X1 is not on my list anymore. The Boompro was on my list because Mad Envy recommended it, it's easy to use (even for me just plug it in the X1) and it's compatible with the PS4 (says the website of Boompro). Any suggestions for a headphone + clip-on mic combo that works great with the PS4? Heard some great things about the Zalman mic, although Mad Lust Envy is not a fan of them. And how does it work with a clip-on mic, just put it on a headset and the PS4 recognizes it? Don't want any trouble with my friends hearing annoying noises because of my mic.


----------



## trahere

If you're willing to pay the extra for convenience, Audio Technica has a gaming headset that will work with the Mixamp. Have a look for ATH-ADG1 but for reviews on their competitive prowess, check out ATH-AD700 reviews as I believe they're broadly similar.


----------



## Yethal

trahere said:


> If you're willing to pay the extra for convenience, Audio Technica has a gaming headset that will work with the Mixamp. Have a look for ATH-ADG1 but for reviews on their competitive prowess, check out ATH-AD700 reviews as I believe they're broadly similar.


 
 If only they werent's so terribly overpriced


----------



## pack21

elf-1 said:


> Oh oke thanks, I truly want the best sound for FPS, so the X1 is not on my list anymore. The Boompro was on my list because Mad Envy recommended it, it's easy to use (even for me just plug it in the X1) and it's compatible with the PS4 (says the website of Boompro). Any suggestions for a headphone + clip-on mic combo that works great with the PS4? Heard some great things about the Zalman mic, although Mad Lust Envy is not a fan of them. And how does it work with a clip-on mic, just put it on a headset and the PS4 recognizes it? Don't want any trouble with my friends hearing annoying noises because of my mic.



Zalman is not great, indeed is very bad, my party don't like it. They like this Chinese mic $3


----------



## Yethal

pack21 said:


> Zalman is not great, indeed is very bad, my party don't like it. They like this Chinese mic $3


 
 This Mic has a strong modding potential. There was this guy on head-fi that added removable cables and mics to headphones. I wonder if he's still in buisness.


----------



## Elf-1

trahere said:


> If you're willing to pay the extra for convenience, Audio Technica has a gaming headset that will work with the Mixamp. Have a look for ATH-ADG1 but for reviews on their competitive prowess, check out ATH-AD700 reviews as I believe they're broadly similar.


 
  
 Woow the price of the first one is a little bit too much ($313 on Amazon), because I also have to buy the Mixamp and a clip on mic. I think the AKG ones would better fit in the price range and have similar competitive performances right? Also the ATH-AD700 are on my list already, they're pretty good as I read their review in this guide. 
  


yethal said:


> If only they werent's so terribly overpriced


 
  
 That's what I thought as well! 
  


> Originally Posted by *pack21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> Zalman is not great, indeed is very bad, my party don't like it. They like this Chinese mic $3


 
  
 Oh oke, didn't know the Zalman was that bad. Any suggestions for an easy to use clip on mic that works with the PS4?


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Woow the price of the first one is a little bit too much ($313 on Amazon), because I also have to buy the Mixamp and a clip on mic. I think the AKG ones would better fit in the price range and have similar competitive performances right? Also the ATH-AD700 are on my list already, they're pretty good as I read their review in this guide.
> 
> 
> That's what I thought as well!
> ...


 
 Yes, use the cheap Neewer ones that are described in the guide.  I got 3 for $5 and they work great.


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> Yes, use the cheap Neewer ones that are described in the guide.  I got 3 for $5 and they work great.


 
 Yes I read about it in this guide, but I wasn't quite sure. He reviewed the DX clip on but also talked about the Neewer and HDE, however the sound quality is not the same. Also this sentence worried me a bit: "IF you are having a problem with any of these mics not picking up your voice, try clipping the mic to the headphone's cable, and not your shirt." Does it happen a lot? And do the clip on mics have a mute function? Couldn't find it in the description on Amazon nor in the guide.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Yes I read about it in this guide, but I wasn't quite sure. He reviewed the DX clip on but also talked about the Neewer and HDE, however the sound quality is not the same. Also this sentence worried me a bit: "IF you are having a problem with any of these mics not picking up your voice, try clipping the mic to the headphone's cable, and not your shirt." Does it happen a lot? And do the clip on mics have a mute function? Couldn't find it in the description on Amazon nor in the guide.


 
 I have both the Neewer and the HDE and they're exactly 100% the same as far as I can tell.  I also always have it clipped to my headphone cable (makes it easier to just take off my headphones if I need to go to the restroom or something).
  
 They do not have mute functionality.


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> I have both the Neewer and the HDE and they're exactly 100% the same as far as I can tell.  I also always have it clipped to my headphone cable (makes it easier to just take off my headphones if I need to go to the restroom or something).
> 
> They do not have mute functionality.


 
  
 Don't have a mute functionality? That's disappointing, because I think it's very important, for example when my phone rings, I mute my headset and then pick up the phone. Annoying for others to hear the phone rings etc. Any mic with mute function that are good on the PS4? 
  
 Also I was looking into the ModMic 4.0 on this guide (which has a mute button) and it says it works good with the PS4, however on the website of ModMic it says that it "works, but sounds strange." What do they mean by that? And has anyone experienced this?


----------



## idrr

hi
 what is better for gaming 
ATH-AG1 or ATH-ADG1 or q701   
 thanks


----------



## Silent Xaxal

trahere said:


> If you're willing to pay the extra for convenience, Audio Technica has a gaming headset that will work with the Mixamp. Have a look for ATH-ADG1 but for reviews on their competitive prowess, check out ATH-AD700 reviews as I believe they're broadly similar.


 
  
 If you're really willing to, the ADG and AG are pretty good. Price is what stops them from being must buys, though I do hope they (Audio Technica) address the availability and price concerns soon. Availability might be what's keeping the prices high. I mean, most of their competition (Gaming Headsets by Pro Audio companies) have gone down significantly in price.


----------



## Yethal

silent xaxal said:


> If you're really willing to, the ADG and AG are pretty good. Price is what stops them from being must buys, though I do hope they (Audio Technica) address the availability and price concerns soon. Availability might be what's keeping the prices high. I mean, most of their competition (Gaming Headsets by Pro Audio companies) have gone down significantly in price.


 
 One of their biggest advantages is the fact that they work with the mixamp out-of-the-box. No external amps and no adapters. Just plaug and play. But for 300$ it's just not worth it.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I purchased a Dragonfly v1.2 last night and I want to make sure the laptop is outputting 96hz 24 bit.  (I think that is the right thinking here?  I want to make sure the highest possible quality sound is outputing from the laptop on everything coming out of it.  vs. outputting 48 hz and the DAC upconverting to 96?)
  
 Realtek question....  When I go into Sound Properties in the HD Manager.
 I cant change out of 2 channel mode??  It is greyed out... if I am watching movies, should I not set this to 7.1?
  
 When I open Razers surround software, its not showing 2 channels..it shows 7.1 in the same menu as the Realtek?
  
 What am I doing wrong here or what don't I understand?


----------



## martin vegas

You have got to enable the dragonfly as your playback device..you can't have the razer surround and the dragonfly on at the same time!


----------



## jandrogo

I have a mixamp 2013 + PS4 in my setup.. What would you pick considering you have 200-250 EUR budget?

-Ath ADG1 or AG1 I can get them at 190 EUR
-Ath AD700 + modmic (and save money)
-Ath AD900 + modmic (would be better than AD700?)
-AKG 612 Pro + modmic + amp (magni it's not cheap here in Spain)


----------



## Yethal

jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp 2013 + PS4 in my setup.. What would you pick considering you have 200-250 EUR budget?
> 
> -Ath ADG1 or AG1 I can get them at 190 EUR
> -Ath AD700 + modmic (and save money)
> ...


 
 ADG-1 - it's the most convenient option


----------



## MichaelJames99

Dragonfly 1.2 and Razer Software.....  So do I need to change the type of DAC I am using from my laptop?  Or do I need to change the surround sound software from Razer to something else to get this to work?  They said the Dragonfly doesn;t require any drivers, but I guess you are saying you still have to configure it as a playback device that is plugged into a USB?


----------



## martin vegas

michaeljames99 said:


> Dragonfly 1.2 and Razer Software.....  So do I need to change the type of DAC I am using from my laptop?  Or do I need to change the surround sound software from Razer to something else to get this to work?  They said the Dragonfly doesn;t require any drivers, but I guess you are saying you still have to configure it as a playback device that is plugged into a USB?


 

 Right click on your mouse over the speaker icon then left click on playback devices and disable the razer 7.1 and enable the dragonfly as the playback device, if you want 24/96khz use apple lossless!


----------



## Reckless95

What's the best virtual surround keeping the low ends still? I found that with using the Razer 7.1 it doesn't sound good at all.


----------



## Reckless95

jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp 2013 + PS4 in my setup.. What would you pick considering you have 200-250 EUR budget?
> 
> -Ath ADG1 or AG1 I can get them at 190 EUR
> -Ath AD700 + modmic (and save money)
> ...


 
 I would say AKG, I love my 712s. I'm currently using the Mixmamp 2013 aswell.


----------



## MichaelJames99

If I disable Razer I lose 7.1 surround sound.  I need something to create the surround sound.
 I was using the DAC to improve the sound then using Razer to create 7.1


----------



## Yethal

The only problem with razer surround is that it is just awful. If You guys have optical DACs You can buy a soundcard that will do the virtual surround in the hardware and output virtual surround signal to S/PDIF. Both Asus and Creative cards do that


----------



## conquerator2

SBX Pro is the clearest and most accurate definitely,Dolby Headphone is more immersive. I certainly like both.


----------



## MichaelJames99

So are you saying there is no y to get surround sound and use the Dragonfly 1.2?
  
  
 And would the chain be:
 Laptop to external USB soundcard with optical out to optical in on external DAC out to amp to headphones?
  
 Also, can you mention some specific models?


----------



## AxelCloris

michaeljames99 said:


> So are you saying there is no y to get surround sound and use the Dragonfly 1.2?
> 
> And would the chain be:
> Laptop to external USB soundcard with optical out to optical in on external DAC out to amp to headphones?
> ...


 
  
 The only way of which I'm aware to get surround from a Dragonfly is by using something like Turtle Beach's surround software or Darin Fong's Out of Your Head software.


----------



## Evshrug

jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp 2013 + PS4 in my setup.. What would you pick considering you have 200-250 EUR budget?
> 
> -Ath ADG1 or AG1 I can get them at 190 EUR
> -Ath AD700 + modmic (and save money)
> ...




One of the original appeals of the AD700 was how much detail and soundstage spaciousness it offered at a low price... I got mine for $80. That headphone has gone way up in price since discontinued, the replacement AD700x is pretty much the same headphone with a black color scheme but it hasn't gone as low in price since black is generally an easier color to sell than purple (but I loved the unique purple of the AD700).

With all that said, I'd highly recommend getting the *AKG K612.* It's an amazing bargain, and I can barely tell the difference between it and my K712, easily switching between them while playing hours of gaming the past two nights (just got my K612, but I'd auditioned them for a week thanks to a friend here on Head-Fi). Head-Fi member *conquerator2 is selling his from Europe at a very good price,* his listing is in his signature. Lightweight, great soundstage and tone, can make sounds so real you have to take them off to check that you aren't hearing something in your room or neighborhood. For gaming I just plug the K612 straight into my DSS and turn the volume up a little, it has 120 ohms impedance so you need a little higher volume knob setting but doesn't require a powerful amp that can deliver a lot of power into lower volume settings (though it gets nicer when you feed it extra power from a nice amp). The Mixamp may be enough just for gaming as long as it's loud enough for you, just remember that later buying a nice amp can enhance the soundstage size and separate the instruments better, more authority in bass notes. You don't specifically need to buy a Magni... I suggest buying the headphone first, then some day research desktop amp options and prices.

A Modmic or far cheaper lapel mike (like Mad's DX Mic which ships direct from china, or check Amazon for a lapel mic branded HDE or Neweer (I have three Neewer mics)) will do great, though recently I've been using a Blue Microphones Snowball iCE. The Snowball iCE is a little large but it sits on my desk and people can hear me great, I can adjust my mic gain (volume) in the PS4's device settings>audio devices.


----------



## Evshrug

michaeljames99 said:


> So are you saying there is no way to get surround sound and use the Dragonfly 1.2?
> 
> And would the chain be:
> Laptop to external USB soundcard with optical out to optical in on external DAC out to amp to headphones?
> ...




The dragonfly is a 2-channel device, you may be able to feed the Razer software a 5.1 signal and tell the Razer software to output it's sound to the Dragonfly, but I've not tried it nor looked up how. If you can still return it, I'd exchange for a Creative Omni instead. The Omni has a capable DAC and decent entry-level desktop amping, has it's own 5.1 processing for headphones or a bunch of powered computer speakers, a built-in volume knob and directional mic, and has an optical output that can pass it's surround sound processed audio out in a 2-channel virtual surround mix. For gaming, I don't bother with that and just plug into the Omni. $55-$70 US.

PC only for the surround goodness, sadly, since it can only accept stereo input from consoles.


----------



## FangJoker

712 pro or HD650 for gaming and rock music?  I plan to pair it with a audio gd nfb11-32


----------



## yezz12

DT770: Positional accuracy is fantastic, though the bloated bass makes it hard to pick up details.
 Could you elaborate, please? What do you mean by details? Steps? Weapon switches?
  
 I have the HD598 right now, though i love the soundstage on it, i can't stand the bass and the balanced sound. I went to a store and tried DT770, liked them a lot more.  I'd buy DT990s if i could power them, if they're really better, i'd buy a Bravo V2 to amp 'em.
  
 Edit: What i'm looking for is good presentation of explosions in games like Unreal Tournament, that's why i'm considering Beyers. I suppose DT770s and DT990s are roughly the same in that regard?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DT770 has too much bass that will mask subtle details if there is bassy explosions and the like. The 990 is a lot tighter in the bass and still powerful, but won't block details as badly. I would suggest the 990 more.

Another great option for you is the X1, which won't really need an amp as badly as the Beyers.


Vegas, the 712 is better for gaming than the 650.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 has too much bass that will mask subtle details if there is bassy explosions and the like. The 990 is a lot tighter in the bass and still powerful, but won't block details as badly. I would suggest the 990 more.
> 
> Another great option for you is the X1, which won't really need an amp as badly as the Beyers.
> 
> ...


 
 And how do the beyers sound with the Pro preset on the mixamp? If it can be eq then dt770 is a wonderful option I might upgrade to when I have the money (hd598 are wonderful but thin bass gets kinda annoying)


----------



## Reckless95

vegasf1 said:


> 712 pro or HD650 for gaming and rock music?  I plan to pair it with a audio gd nfb11-32




My K712s are great for gaming. I listen mostly to rock, my e17 was delayed so it should be here sometime this week hopefully. I find it great for rock.


----------



## yezz12

mad lust envy said:


> The DT770 has too much bass that will mask subtle details if there is bassy explosions and the like. The 990 is a lot tighter in the bass and still powerful, but won't block details as badly. I would suggest the 990 more.
> 
> Another great option for you is the X1, which won't really need an amp as badly as the Beyers.


 
  
 DT770s 80 Ohm and DT990s 250 Ohm Pro cost both €130 here, you think the €50 i have to spend on an amp to go with the DT990s is worth it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. Totally. Just wanna say, unless you're voice chatting, something like the Mixamp is fine enough for gaming use. Both the 80ohm and the 250ohm have near similar amping requirements anyways, just that the 250ohm was a little quieter.


----------



## MichaelJames99

You can have Razer and the Dragonfly 1.2 running at the same time fyi....  Razer will pick the Dragonfly in a pulldown menu.  I am impressed so far with this combo.


----------



## martin vegas

michaeljames99 said:


> You can have Razer and the Dragonfly 1.2 running at the same time fyi....  Razer will pick the Dragonfly in a pulldown menu.  I am impressed so far with this combo.


 

 Must have been updated..i could never get them both to work at once..well done for keeping the dragonfly for 2 days i couldn't last longer than a day with the pile of crap! P.s mine was version 1!


----------



## yezz12

Thoughts on Fiio E11k vs Bravo V2 to power the DT990s 250Ohm?


----------



## wilflare

okay. I finally have funds to buy a new headphone to replace the Sony PULSE Elite Wireless
  
 so I basically have 5 platforms I would use my headphones on.
  
 (1) Vita/3DS
 (2) PS4 (and PS3)
 (3) PC -currently using Audinst HUD-MX1- (which I'll also use for Music and Movies -no specific genres!-)
  
 I am thinking of the following 3 headphones
 Senn HD598
 Philips Fidelio X1
 Audio Technica AD700X
  
 I was also thinking of getting
 - ASTRO Mixamp for PS4 Surround (recommended?)
 - V-MODA BoomPro mic for chat
  
 Concerns
 - Comfort: I have a large head (Hat size would be like *73/4*
 - Mods: Can I easily change the cups, cables, etc... so as to ensure I use this setup for as long as possible
 - I remember asking how I can do surround on PC in this thread before... but I don't have much choices right? and using the Mixamp on PC isn't recommended?


----------



## reckless67

wilflare said:


> okay. I finally have funds to buy a new headphone to replace the Sony PULSE Elite Wireless
> 
> so I basically have 5 platforms I would use my headphones on.
> 
> ...


 

 I use the mixamp pro with my k712s, works fine for PS4/PC. I just need another amp to drive them.


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> okay. I finally have funds to buy a new headphone to replace the Sony PULSE Elite Wireless
> 
> so I basically have 5 platforms I would use my headphones on.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Concerns:
 - MLE has a big head too, apparently, so I'd follow the comfort sections of this guide.
 - Senn and X1 have removable cables.  X1 doesn't have replaceable ear pads.  Not sure about the rest.
 - On PC you have a lot of choices, from the free Razer software to nice dedicated sound cards like the Sound Blaster Z, to high end sound cards like the Asus...I forget the name.  The Sound Blaster Recon3D is the only device that will work with both console and PC (currently).  I suggest reading the Nameless guide for more info on PC stuff.  It's confusing, but they'll answer your questions over there.
  
 Also, I haven't heard all those headphones you mentioned, but my understanding is that the HD590 and AD-700 are very bass-light, while the X1 is much more "fun".  It might help you to decide which to buy if you figure out what kind of sound you want.


----------



## Yethal

As far as the bass goes the HD598 sound like like an Airbus flying on one engine. The power is supposed to be there but You can't feel it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I emailed Kingston, because their Hyperx Cloud headset looks REALLY worth its $100 msrp. It has 53mm drivers, Beyerdynamic-esque looks, and comes with both GENUINE leather and memory foam velours.

I'll keep you guys posted.

I think it's worth visiting some headsets, since a lot of people here like practicality.

I'm kind of tired of reviewing stuff that just wasn't made for gaming, or even good for it otherwise.

Having some budget headsets to recommend would be nice. I liked the Slyr a lot, and despite the bad build, one of the Turtle abeaches my ex roomate had sounded REALLY good for $50.


----------



## Yethal

But the real question is... will it allow to hear footsteps better in COD?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> So I emailed Kingston, because their Hyperx Cloud headset looks REALLY worth its $100 msrp. It has 53mm drivers, Beyerdynamic-esque looks, and comes with both GENUINE leather and memory foam velours.
> 
> I'll keep you guys posted.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've spent time with the HyperX Cloud. I think that it's worth the $70-80 range. It's damned comfortable on my head and the sound was great even on a super-loud trade show floor.
  
 Did I mention that they're super comfortable? I may not have. So I'll mention now that they're amazingly comfortable on my head.
  
 Comfy.
  
 When I get home, MLE, I'll send you some contact info for their PR team. They're very willing to work with people who do reviews and/or are in the media.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> So I emailed Kingston, because their Hyperx Cloud headset looks REALLY worth its $100 msrp. It has 53mm drivers, Beyerdynamic-esque looks, and comes with both GENUINE leather and memory foam velours.
> 
> I'll keep you guys posted.
> 
> ...


 
 it's now $80 at Amazon too... which makes it tempting
 was $70 at one point..


----------



## THeFastCat

Hello I purchased a schiit audio Modi DAC (optical) and an Asgard 2 Amp - will this be a good stack to run a *AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition?*
 Mostly for computer gaming. I went with the Asgard over the Magni since you mentioned these headphones wanted a bigger AMP and the review of the Magni stated it wouldn't be so good with Big Sound stage phones..
  
 I also plan on adding the Ant Lion attachable mic to these.
  
 I tried to find a sound card option for my computer but in the end the appeal of avoiding driver hell was just too appealing. Also these seem to be built to last...


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> So I emailed Kingston, because their Hyperx Cloud headset looks REALLY worth its $100 msrp. It has 53mm drivers, Beyerdynamic-esque looks, and comes with both GENUINE leather and memory foam velours.
> 
> I'll keep you guys posted.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The offer is still on the table to review the Playstation Gold headset.  FWIW, I've upgraded my opinion on them slightly since I figured out how to turn off the thing that pipes my voice through the headset.  They're not great but they're not all that bad.
  


thefastcat said:


> Hello I purchased a schiit audio Modi DAC (optical) and an Asgard 2 Amp - will this be a good stack to run a *AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition?*
> Mostly for computer gaming. I went with the Asgard over the Magni since you mentioned these headphones wanted a bigger AMP and the review of the Magni stated it wouldn't be so good with Big Sound stage phones..
> 
> I also plan on adding the Ant Lion attachable mic to these.
> ...


 
  
 Yes, that will be enough for your K702 Annies.
  
 BTW, my Optimodi died within a week and I'm not the only person who's had that problem.  Hopefully you have better luck.
  
 Also, I haven't had "driver hell" since Plug and Play was invented.  What are you referring to?  My SB Omni works great.  And since the Omni has an optical out, you can use it with the Optimodi if you want to upgrade later.


----------



## THeFastCat

stillhart said:


> Also, I haven't had "driver hell" since Plug and Play was invented.  What are you referring to?  My SB Omni works great.  And since the Omni has an optical out, you can use it with the Optimodi if you want to upgrade later.


 
  
 I was referring to PC cards and not amps -- here are the ones I was considering (but didn't buy because of the recurring theme in bad reviews was driver hell):
  
Creative Sound Blaster Z PCIe http://goo.gl/Bd5xG​ ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels http://goo.gl/zNLJN *HT | OMEGA Claro Halo *http://goo.gl/Xj9rG
  
  
 My motherboard's audio specs can be seen : http://goo.gl/Ovirqx
  
 Think there's a benefit in buying a card with my rig?


----------



## BigBadWulf

The Kingston HyperX Cloud seems to be a good buy. They are almost the same like the QPAD 90 based on the Takstar Headphones, but it has Velours earpads too.
  
  
 Mad Lust Envy, thank you very much for your research and this fantastic thread!
  
 But I still have one question. What are your 5 most favorite "Godmode" Headphones, when Price doesn`t matter?
 I think a lot of Readers would like to know it. Sure, everybody experiences an headphone in another way, but what are your Ultimate gaming headphones if comfort and so on doesn`t Count?


----------



## Stillhart

thefastcat said:


> I was referring to PC cards and not amps -- here are the ones I was considering (but didn't buy because of the recurring theme in bad reviews was driver hell):
> 
> Creative Sound Blaster Z PCIe http://goo.gl/Bd5xG​ ASUS Xonar Essence STX Virtual 7.1 Channels http://goo.gl/zNLJN *HT | OMEGA Claro Halo *http://goo.gl/Xj9rG
> 
> ...


 
  
 I, and several others here, have the Sound Blaster Omni (which is basically the Sound Blaster Z but external via USB) and nobody has reported any driver issues other than neglecting to update to the newest ones.  I can't speak to the other sound cards, but the Z/Omni works fine.
  
 As to the benefit, I think there are several:
  
 1 - It will provide you with virtual surround processing for games and movies.
 2 - In my personal experience, the DAC in the Modi was not audibly different from the one in the Omni.  That means you can get the $70 Omni instead of the $100 Modi and get the same sound but with surround.
 3 - With an optical output, you can always add a better DAC down the line and still have virtual surround processing (this is what I did eventually).


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> The Kingston HyperX Cloud seems to be a good buy. They are almost the same like the QPAD 90 based on the Takstar Headphones, but it has Velours earpads too.
> 
> 
> Mad Lust Envy, thank you very much for your research and this fantastic thread!
> ...


 
 Check the top-10 lists at the beginning of the guide.


----------



## Abula

Thanks for Mad and all others for this huge imense thread, i have tried to reach as much as i can, but still its very long.
  
 I recently bought a PS4, and was looking on a good heatset for it, upon reading seems one of the best combos atm is the Philips Fidelio X1 + V-MODA BoomPro, but wondering into if i would just plug it to the controller or do you guys recommend any amp to work with it?
  
 PS. I knew returning to HeadFi would be bad.... but whats done its done, let the wallet suffer my mistakes =)


----------



## BigBadWulf

Is it really a top ten List? I thought, it is just an index without comparison? Or do you mean another list and I am too blind to see? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Than sorry in advance


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> Is it really a top ten List? I thought, it is just an index without comparison? Or do you mean another list and I am too blind to see?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 There is a section at the beginning of the thread (before the reviews start) that list his top 10 cans in three categories:  gaming, fun, overall.  It's collapsed by default, so make sure you expand it out.


----------



## Stillhart

abula said:


> Thanks for Mad and all others for this huge imense thread, i have tried to reach as much as i can, but still its very long.
> 
> I recently bought a PS4, and was looking on a good heatset for it, upon reading seems one of the best combos atm is the Philips Fidelio X1 + V-MODA BoomPro, but wondering into if i would just plug it to the controller or do you guys recommend any amp to work with it?
> 
> PS. I knew returning to HeadFi would be bad.... but whats done its done, let the wallet suffer my mistakes =)


 
 You already have a couple really good gaming cans in your signature.  Not sure you'll get much from buying a new one (other than that "new can feeling").
  
 If you want surround sound (yes, you probably do), get a Mixamp or a Recon3D or the like.  There's a section of the guide with reviews on several of these units, but those are the two most popular around here.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> There is a section at the beginning of the thread (before the reviews start) that list his top 10 cans in three categories:  gaming, fun, overall.  It's collapsed by default, so make sure you expand it out.


 
 I'm pretty sure that section is gone. Can't find it on the first post.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I'm pretty sure that section is gone. Can't find it on the first post.


 
  
 Hrm, you're right, it seems to have disappeared.  My apologies!


----------



## Yethal

Pretty sure it was because people only looked at the ratings and didn't bother with the rest of the thread.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Pretty sure it was because people only looked at the ratings and didn't bother with the rest of the thread.


 
 If so, it might be helpful to leave the section heading in there with a brief explanation that it was removed, blah blah.  Otherwise, I am forced to wonder if it broke in one of his many updates...


----------



## AxelCloris

bigbadwulf said:


> The Kingston HyperX Cloud seems to be a good buy. *They are almost the same like the QPAD 90* based on the Takstar Headphones, but it has Velours earpads too.
> 
> 
> Mad Lust Envy, thank you very much for your research and this fantastic thread!
> ...


 
  
 Good eye. QPAD is the company that makes the headset for Kingston.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

stillhart said:


> You already have a couple really good gaming cans in your signature.  Not sure you'll get much from buying a new one (other than that "new can feeling").
> 
> If you want surround sound (yes, you probably do), get a Mixamp or a Recon3D or the like.  There's a section of the guide with reviews on several of these units, but those are the two most popular around here.


 
 I was looking at you signature, how did you get the Recon to work with the PS4 to output?


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> I was looking at you signature, how did you get the Recon to work with the PS4 to output?


 
  
 The Recon is super easy with PS3/4.  Just plug it in via USB and Optical, make sure the switches are set to PS3, and it just works.  No cord to controller required, no fancy connectors, etc.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mixamp 5.8 has been acquired. And I have the Astro PS3 chat cable for the 5.8 Tx coming soon as well. Rechargeable battery pack is inbound from Amazon. Soon my setup will be ready for console gaming bliss once again.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

stillhart said:


> The Recon is super easy with PS3/4.  Just plug it in via USB and Optical, make sure the switches are set to PS3, and it just works.  No cord to controller required, no fancy connectors, et


 
 The Recon that you have is that little device (mixamp), is it better than the astros? will it actually use the q701s at its full potential for gaming on ps4?


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> The Recon that you have is that little device (mixamp), is it better than the astros? will it actually use the q701s at its full potential for gaming on ps4?


 
 Is it better than the Astros?  I'd say they both have their pros and cons.  The biggest pro of the Recon (for me) is that it uses THX for surround rather than DH.  Some people prefer DH, I do not.  The biggest pro of the Astro is that it lets you set your game/chat balance.  This is something that isn't really super necessary but it's a convenience that I really really miss when I don't have it.
  
 The Recon has enough volume to drive the Q701 if you're not chatting.  If you're chatting, you usually want to turn the game sounds down a little and turn the Recon up a bit, which will give you more chat volume.  Unfortunately, there isn't a ton of headroom for doing with when you're using the Q.  So far, I've been playing Destiny with the Q and chatting every night and it's been working fine.  So I'd say that, yes, you should be fine.  Amping it will give you more headroom if you find yourself needing it.  It should also improve the SQ a bit.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

stillhart said:


> Is it better than the Astros?  I'd say they both have their pros and cons.  The biggest pro of the Recon (for me) is that it uses THX for surround rather than DH.  Some people prefer DH, I do not.  The biggest pro of the Astro is that it lets you set your game/chat balance.  This is something that isn't really super necessary but it's a convenience that I really really miss when I don't have it.
> 
> The Recon has enough volume to drive the Q701 if you're not chatting.  If you're chatting, you usually want to turn the game sounds down a little and turn the Recon up a bit, which will give you more chat volume.  Unfortunately, there isn't a ton of headroom for doing with when you're using the Q.  So far, I've been playing Destiny with the Q and chatting every night and it's been working fine.  So I'd say that, yes, you should be fine.  Amping it will give you more headroom if you find yourself needing it.  It should also improve the SQ a bit.


 
 what is the difference between THX and DB? Do you get the same exact sound with both? (quality of your area around you/ pin point accuracy?)


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> what is the difference between THX and DB? Do you get the same exact sound with both? (quality of your area around you/ pin point accuracy?)


 
 There are videos on the thread that show the differences.  You can listen with any headphones and hear for yourself.
  
 There's also this video that user Chicolom posted a little while back:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-7-9-2014-ultrasone-hfi-15g-added/25095#post_10770608
  
 Hopefully MLE will add it to the main post because it's far too useful to be lost in the discussion.  Keep in mind that SBX and THX processing are essentially the same thing (Creative stopped paying to use the THX name and rebranded their ripoff as SBX).


----------



## Reckless95

axelcloris said:


> Mixamp 5.8 has been acquired. And I have the Astro PS3 chat cable for the 5.8 Tx coming soon as well. Rechargeable battery pack is inbound from Amazon. Soon my setup will be ready for console gaming bliss once again.




I couldn't stand the 5.8. the EQs on the Pro are actually pretty good.


----------



## wilflare

I just purchased my X1 + BoomPro
  
 now to settle the Mixamp and etc - hope to have your recommendations
  
 I was really thinking of just getting
 the ASTRO Mixamp for PS3/PS4 (and maybe even WiiU if needed)
 the Sound Blaster Z or ZX (can't decide... is the ACM really useful?) or the Omni for PC
  
 but it seems like I can skip the ASTRO Mixamp altogether?
 can I just use the PS4 Optical out to the Sound Blaster Z and then output to my headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> I just purchased my X1 + BoomPro
> 
> now to settle the Mixamp and etc - hope to have your recommendations
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if you can run your PS4 into you SBZ and decode it that way.  But you are going to have issues with your Boompro since you'll need to plug the mic into your controller and the headphone into your computer.
  
 Regard Z vs ZX vs Omni, I immediately crossed ZX off my list when shopping as it's just extra crap I don't need.  If you don't immediately go, "hey, that's handy!" then you don't need it.  Z vs Omni then, I picked the Omni because it was cheaper.  I'm happy I did though, because it's a lot easier to deal with all the cables up on my desk than digging behind my computer every time I want to reroute cables for testing.


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> I'm not sure if you can run your PS4 into you SBZ and decode it that way.  But you are going to have issues with your Boompro since you'll need to plug the mic into your controller and the headphone into your computer.
> 
> Regard Z vs ZX vs Omni, I immediately crossed ZX off my list when shopping as it's just extra crap I don't need.  If you don't immediately go, "hey, that's handy!" then you don't need it.  Z vs Omni then, I picked the Omni because it was cheaper.  I'm happy I did though, because it's a lot easier to deal with all the cables up on my desk than digging behind my computer every time I want to reroute cables for testing.


 
 thanks for the reply
  
 seems like for the Boompro - I just need to use the provided Y Adapter right? 

  
 hmm I wanted to get the Omni but the inputs are limited for me at this moment.
 was thinking of getting the ZX for the Audio Control Module - which would help with the rerouting problem... and well my PS4 :X


----------



## face2k

stillhart said:


> Is it better than the Astros?  I'd say they both have their pros and cons.  The biggest pro of the Recon (for me) is that it uses THX for surround rather than DH.  Some people prefer DH, I do not.  The biggest pro of the Astro is that it lets you set your game/chat balance.  This is something that isn't really super necessary but it's a convenience that I really really miss when I don't have it.
> 
> The Recon has enough volume to drive the Q701 if you're not chatting.  If you're chatting, you usually want to turn the game sounds down a little and turn the Recon up a bit, which will give you more chat volume.  Unfortunately, there isn't a ton of headroom for doing with when you're using the Q.  So far, I've been playing Destiny with the Q and chatting every night and it's been working fine.  So I'd say that, yes, you should be fine.  Amping it will give you more headroom if you find yourself needing it.  It should also improve the SQ a bit.


 
 Hey I also use the recon3d but when I use a table mic with it there's a loud buzzing noise
 Does that happen with yours?
 Or is there a problem with the mic input on my recon3d


----------



## wilflare

seems like the SPDIF IN on the Sound Blaster Z/ZX only accept PCM and not DD :/
 oh well - any other options?


----------



## Evshrug

dementxusa said:


> The Recon that you have is that little device (mixamp), is it better than the astros? will it actually use the q701s at its full potential for gaming on ps4?



I have testing notes and a review linked in my signature about using a Recon3D USB with a Q701 and Xbox 360, though I agree that the Recon3D USB makes chat setup super easy on the Playstations and PC since they recognize the USB connection as a mic input, just plug in headphones and a $3-$6 lapel mic and DONE! Well, I do also like adding an amp between the Recon3D and headphones, as it adds more volume headroom, "strength" or authority to tightly control the Q701 speaker diaphragms, and I've found that a quality amp will help treble sounds less brittle or fatiguing (which I'm sensitive to).



wilflare said:


> seems like the SPDIF IN on the Sound Blaster Z/ZX only accept PCM and not DD :/
> oh well - any other options?



Yes, this is due to licensing restrictions. True to almost all PC cards. The only units I know of that are in production which can interface with USB for PC audio and Optical with DDL decoding for console audio is the Recon3D USB which we've just mentioned and creative's new X7 which is on it's way soon:
http://www.soundblaster.com/x7/

Or, you could always buy separate devices.


----------



## pack21

I'm waiting for Sound Blaster X7. 

I just need confirmation that doesn't have any hiss on high volumea and chat works without issues on PS4 party system .


----------



## wilflare

sigh. in a sense I'm back to the drawing board.
  
 The Philips Fidelio X1 + V-Moda BoomPro are definitely on the list.
 I definitely need a sound card since my mobo's integrated sound card isn't that good.. and I suppose SPDIF out is only Stereo PCM as well :/
 - the Z/ZX or Omni would resolve that... but not accepting DD5.1 via Optical IN is a MEGA bummer. I'm really leaning to the ZX for the ACM so I don't have to reach to the rear... and it seems better than the Omni spec-wise... Omni is tempting for its convenience... so I'm kinda stuck (trying to imagine if I would use it for Macbook Pro etc... though I have Audinst HUD-MX1 that I currently use)
 - If price isn't much of an issue, ZX is recommended right? (ZXR is way out)
  
 After reading more about ASTRO Mixamp, I feel less and less inclined to get it on the PS4 :/
 - The Recon3D USB looks really good as an alternative... but the prices are not friendly
 - any other Mixamp type stuff I should consider?
  
 Audinst HUD-MX1 - is the Sound Blaster Z a better sound solution?
  
 man - this is getting way more complicated than I thought.
  
 EDIT:
 what's a good extension cable to use with the Fidelio X1 + BoomPro? would different impedance in the cables affect things?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wait for the Soundblaster X7 if you have the cash.


----------



## pack21

wilflare said:


> .....
> 
> 
> man - this is getting way more complicated than I thought.
> ...




No it isn't, is just a matter of money.  

About extension cable, will not affect your ear perception what kind of cable u use.


----------



## Yethal

One thing about X7 I just noticed, it has an USB Host connection on the side for connecting external USB DAC.
  
 I'm seriously considering selling my Mixamp and the Schiit stack to buy the X7 when it comes out
  
 EDIT: Nope, just for mobile phones. Which is a shame.


----------



## JoO0x

Hi ,
  
 am newbie in Audio thing , so i have bought Blaster ZX i thought the card itself would be enough , when i went throw the posts i got confused
  
 so i have some questions , hope u help me out !
  
 1) do i need an AMP & DAC with my Blaster ZX (With Audio Module*)? if yes which one should i get?
  
 2)i don't know which headset should i get all i need is comfortable and gaming headset(NotFPSGame) since i spend over 10h on the computer ? and i watch Anime + Movies a lot
  
 3) dose 250ohm beats 64ohm and 32ohm in sound quality , if yes please explain?
  
 4) Surround sound , these headset doesn't support it but some had used a Razer App for the surrounded and its works?
  
 Thank you , Best Regards.
  
 * Audio Module , is it usefull or should i throw it ?


----------



## wilflare

pack21 said:


> No it isn't, is just a matter of money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 that's definitely one way to put it
 the X7 sure seems tempting though... but that price lol


----------



## Stillhart

face2k said:


> Hey I also use the recon3d but when I use a table mic with it there's a loud buzzing noise
> Does that happen with yours?
> Or is there a problem with the mic input on my recon3d


 
  
 No, there's no loud buzzing noise, lol.  If that were normal, nobody would buy these.
  


wilflare said:


> sigh. in a sense I'm back to the drawing board.
> 
> The Philips Fidelio X1 + V-Moda BoomPro are definitely on the list.
> I definitely need a sound card since my mobo's integrated sound card isn't that good.. and I suppose SPDIF out is only Stereo PCM as well :/
> ...


 
  
 The difference in spec between the Z/ZX and the Omni is negligible.  They're almost exactly the same thing.  I wouldn't worry about spec difference.  You get all the benefits of the ZX (all your connections up top of the desk) but at a fraction of the cost.  I know price isn't an issue, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to spend more if you're not getting any benefit.  
  
 Honestly, I'm not even sure why anyone would choose the ZX over the Omni.  
  
 Regarding Mixamp vs Recon, they both have their pros and cons and either will be a fine choice.  Recon will work on your computer and console, but not at the same time, so that's something to consider (the potential hassle of cable swapping).
  


joo0x said:


> Hi ,
> 
> am newbie in Audio thing , so i have bought Blaster ZX i thought the card itself would be enough , when i went throw the posts i got confused
> 
> ...


 
 1 - No, you don't need an amp and DAC.  You may need an amp if you get headphones that are hard to drive, but since you don't have any headphones yet, that's easy to avoid.
  
 2 - Look for headphones that rank high in the "fun" factor and read the reviews to see how comfy they are.  Pick a few that look good to you and we can maybe help narrow it down.
  
 3 - Yes, generally speaking, the higher resistance ones sound better.  However, they're also harder to drive properly.  For example, 32ohm will sound fine from your phone, 250ohm not so good from your phone but better than the 32 from a proper source.
  
 4 - The ZX will provide your surround sound.  You can use any headphone/headset you want once you have the ZX.
  
 * - If you don't know if the audio module is useful, you should probably save a few bucks and get the Z instead of the ZX.


----------



## Evshrug

+1,
The Zx is literally a Z with the ACM. The ACM isn't an amp or anything, it's just a headphone jack splitter with a resistor that decreases the volume from whatever the headphone jack of the card is at... kind of a cheap device. Oh and it has a built in pair of microphones, but the Z and the Omni also have beamforming mics.

And what specs of the z are better than the Omni? One thing to keep in mind is they both have the same chips for the DAC and the amp.

Have you checked eBay prices on the Recon3D USB?

These types of surround processors are called DSP (Digital Sound Processor), calling them "Mixamp type devices" is like calling something "Tide type soap" instead of "laundry detergent."


----------



## wilflare

my bad ^^ will be more careful with the terminology.
  
 I'll check eBay on the Recon3D USB
  
 hmm. okay so between Z and Omni - which should I go for? it really boils down to preference right? I can get both at the same price.
 I currently have a USB DAC...
  
 was kinda just making do with PS4 SPDIF Output to the Sound Blaster Z - and let the Sound Blaster Z add the virtual surround to the 2CH Stereo signal.


----------



## Evshrug

Well I wasn't saying your terminology was bad, but you'll have more success finding more such devices if you look for DSPs than Mixamp's (tho Astro Gaming would do a little jig if you did, the Mixamp is their baby).

Didn't realize the price went up so much on the Recon3D USB, guess someone realized it was unique, but they used to sell for $65 new or less used.

Again, surround from the Z applied to a 2Ch stereo signal won't sound like "this is behind me, that is at 11 o'clock," when a DSP only has 2 channels to work with the "surround" effect is more like a reverb and distant effect than anything with remotely accurate positioning.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Well I wasn't saying your terminology was bad, but you'll have more success finding more such devices if you look for DSPs than Mixamp's (tho Astro Gaming would do a little jig if you did, the Mixamp is their baby).
> 
> Didn't realize the price went up so much on the Recon3D USB, guess someone realized it was unique, but they used to sell for $65 new or less used.
> 
> Again, surround from the Z applied to a 2Ch stereo signal won't sound like "this is behind me, that is at 11 o'clock," when a DSP only has 2 channels to work with the "surround" effect is more like a reverb and distant effect than anything with remotely accurate positioning.


 
  
 Holy crap, $199 new!? That's insane!
  

  
 This is just silly...


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Holy crap, $199 new!? That's insane!
> 
> 
> 
> This is just silly...


 
 I'm guessing they're no longer in production.


----------



## Evshrug

Let's not even think of how much Stillhart paid for two of them at his Fry's Electronics. Btw, check there if you want one and have the opportunity!


----------



## JoO0x

#stillhart thank you for your response and explanation
  
 i have seen reviews for all of those
*AKG K712 Pro* i like this so much and it looks amazing but am careless am afraid to brake it Q_Q [made of plastice].
*Philips Fidelio X1 *i like the design but u can't change the ear-pad so won't last forever .
*Beyerdynamic DT990 *this looks ugly but got huge positive reviews and says its heavy .
*Sony MA900 *i like the desgin thats all dunno about the headphone
  
 which one do u advice me to take and if its need AMP or not
  
 & Thank you again.
  
 Best Regards.


----------



## kman1211

joo0x said:


> #stillhart thank you for your response and explanation
> 
> i have seen reviews for all of those
> *AKG K712 Pro* i like this so much and it looks amazing but am careless am afraid to brake it Q_Q [made of plastice].
> ...


 

 The K712 Pro is quite sturdy and can take some abuse, it feels sturdier than the Q701, it also fits a bit different due to the different headband and some difference in clamping. I don't feel the need to be careful with the headphone. The DT 990 is a bit treble-heavy which may be bothersome for some, with the DT 990 Pro model, it's the coiled cable that is heavy and messes with comfort, the premium models are more comfortable, the headphone itself is quite lightweight. The MA900 is sturdier than it appears but not the K712 or DT 990 sturdy.  I haven't heard the X1.
  
 The K712 is probably the most amp dependent of the bunch. The DT 990 needs an amp but isn't quite as demanding as the K712. The MA900 doesn't need an amp and I don't think the X1 needs one either.


----------



## wilflare

evshrug said:


> Well I wasn't saying your terminology was bad, but you'll have more success finding more such devices if you look for DSPs than Mixamp's (tho Astro Gaming would do a little jig if you did, the Mixamp is their baby).
> 
> Didn't realize the price went up so much on the Recon3D USB, guess someone realized it was unique, but they used to sell for $65 new or less used.
> 
> Again, surround from the Z applied to a 2Ch stereo signal won't sound like "this is behind me, that is at 11 o'clock," when a DSP only has 2 channels to work with the "surround" effect is more like a reverb and distant effect than anything with remotely accurate positioning.


 
  
 oh well. guess I'll really look at getting the ASTRO's then.
 was hoping to just use the Sound Blaster Z until the next big upgrade... X7?
  
 or are there alternative DSPs? I read mentions of DSS2 or something like
  
 was hoping for kinda an all-in-one solution so I don't have to wear out my ports/cables by plugging them in and out (or is this unnecessary worrying heh)


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

Which is better guys? Recon3D or Astro mixamp tx


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> Which is better guys? Recon3D or Astro mixamp tx


 
 Read the last page or two.  I just answered this question.


----------



## PixelSkills

My current setup is a Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition hooked up via optical to my PS4, my cans are the Sennheiser g4me One. My question is will a separate amp attached to the Mixamp help the sound quality? I do have to crank up the volume knob almost full to get the sound level I want out of the headset, but im more worried about getting the best possible sound quality from my Sennheisers. Heres a link to the headsets incase the specs matter.
  
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/g4me-one#product_data
  
 If adding a separate amp would help the sound quality and level what amp would work? Im a newbie when it comes to this stuff but im always picky and want the best quality out of everything I buy. Im not trying to spend alot and I really dont want a portable amp because I dont want to have to charge it constantly.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

Before you read on, I want you to know that I am only gaming on PS4!

I originally planned on getting HD598s but I was wondering..

Say, I bought better headphones with good bass that I could also lower with the equalizer on the 2014 mixamp from Astros (when it releases in october) to make them less bassy for better pinpoint accuracy for footsteps or etc.

Could I also get some input on headphones at that level compatible (best sound quality) with the astro mixamp?


----------



## Reckless95

joo0x said:


> #stillhart thank you for your response and explanation
> 
> i have seen reviews for all of those
> *AKG K712 Pro* i like this so much and it looks amazing but am careless am afraid to brake it Q_Q [made of plastice].
> ...


 
 I love my K712 Pros, to me they are well balanced and do a better job. They need amp'd though, for me the mixamp doesn't do them justice though in my opinion so I ordered a Fiio E17 for now.


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> No, there's no loud buzzing noise, lol.  If that were normal, nobody would buy these.
> 
> 
> The difference in spec between the Z/ZX and the Omni is negligible.  They're almost exactly the same thing.  I wouldn't worry about spec difference.  You get all the benefits of the ZX (all your connections up top of the desk) but at a fraction of the cost.  I know price isn't an issue, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to spend more if you're not getting any benefit.
> ...


 
 thanks for the very detailed reply.
  
 to put my question in another way, why would anyone pick the Sound Blaster Z over the Omni then?
  
 can't seem to find a good price on the Recon3D guess I have to just buy the Mixamp.. or make do with Stereo sound until X7 is available.
 PS4 Stereo -> Sound Blaster Z/Omni -> Fidelio X1 + BoomPro should sound way better than my Sony PULSE Wireless Elite right?
  
 would the following FiiO model work? FiiO D7
  
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FOG4O34


----------



## Elf-1

dementxusa said:


> Before you read on, I want you to know that I am only gaming on PS4!
> 
> I originally planned on getting HD598s but I was wondering..
> 
> ...


 
 2014 Mixamp from Astros? They are only releasing a new Mixamp (M80) that is compatible with the Xbox One as far as I know. The PS4 still gets the normal 2013 pro edition, where did you read they are going to release a new Mixamp in October for the PS4?


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

elf-1 said:


> 2014 Mixamp from Astros? They are only releasing a new Mixamp (M80) that is compatible with the Xbox One as far as I know. The PS4 still gets the normal 2013 pro edition, where did you read they are going to release a new Mixamp in October for the PS4?




Is that a New model in tho picture or just a New look?


----------



## Freegrazer

Hey guys.

 So I just got myself a set of AKG K702's and an Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition last week. One problem I noticed immediately when I'd set everything up:

 With the Mixamp volume turned up full, there is a somewhat quiet but still very audible and annoying hiss/static noise.

 Now I don't game online and I'm not using a mic for chat, so I simply have the Game/Voice dial on the Mixamp turned all the way to the Game side.

 I've tried swapping out the USB cable as suggested by some others who had audio problems with their Mixamps but this made no difference.  I've tested the unit with my other headphones but the noise is still present.
  
 I've even tried turning the main volume knob to half way.  Doing so greatly reduces the noise but then the overall volume is too quiet to actually play a game.  I even tried using a FiiO E12 to increase the volume that way but I knew this was a desperate play, obviously the noise was just amplified as well.
  
 I've been discussing the issue with Astro customer support and they've told me that the hissing/white noise is present on every Astro Mixamp when volume is turned up to 3/4 full and above. 
  
 Has anybody else experienced any issues like this on their Mixamp?
  
 Cheers


----------



## pack21

Everyone lives with that issue. 

U must turn all volumes on games, consoles to highest. ....so u can lower on Mixamp. I know is a bit annoying on first times, but u must try forget that and live with it.


The static noise comes from optical port, if u take the cable most of static is gone. ....If oldest mixamp don't have this issue for sure the problem is on new optical port they put on 2013 model.


I have too AKG702 and I must said, they are amazing for gaming and watching movies.


----------



## Freegrazer

I agree the K702's sound amazing with games, and I'm very impressed with the virtual surround that the Mixamp provides, but I'm disappointed with the white noise issue.  Absolutely no call for that on a unit that costs £120. 
  
 I suppose I could try getting used to it as you say, but then I could also return the unit and get a refund and try buying another surround processor such as the Recon3D.  I don't use a mic at all so I won't be needing a separate amp to drive the K702's if I do get the Recon3D.
  
 Anybody encountered any issues similar to the Mixamp hissing noise while using a Recon3d?


----------



## Elf-1

dementxusa said:


> Is that a New model in tho picture or just a New look?


 
 The M80 is a new Mixamp Model only for the Xbox One, because the Mixamp Pro was not compatible with it (I think). They are also releasing a new A50 and a new A40 model with the old Mixamp pro 2013. Check out this video http://youtu.be/z-6Ud67U7JU


----------



## pack21

Anyone knows how soundblaster Recon3D mix the game and chat audio, works likes mixamp? Can I control in the device how much audio goes to game and chat? Or is a fixed value setting on PC? 

Thx


----------



## Freegrazer

pack21 said:


> Anyone knows how soundblaster Recon3D mix the game and chat audio, works likes mixamp? Can I control in the device how much audio goes to game and chat? Or is a fixed value setting on PC?
> 
> Thx


 
 There is no control over the Voice/Game audio level with the Recon3D afaik.  This is one of the main difference between this device and the Astro Mixamp. 
  
 Stillhart points this this 3 or 4 pages ago if you want to have a look at his post.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

freegrazer said:


> I agree the K702's sound amazing with games, and I'm very impressed with the virtual surround that the Mixamp provides, but I'm disappointed with the white noise issue.  Absolutely no call for that on a unit that costs £120.
> 
> I suppose I could try getting used to it as you say, but then I could also return the unit and get a refund and try buying another surround processor such as the Recon3D.  I don't use a mic at all so I won't be needing a separate amp to drive the K702's if I do get the Recon3D.
> 
> Anybody encountered any issues similar to the Mixamp hissing noise while using a Recon3d?




When you obtain the recon3d, could to quote me about how good the quality is compared to the mixamp? Sound quality and response and virtual surround


----------



## Stillhart

The mixamp is definitely noisy. It's one of the drawbacks of the unit. It's got a weak amp and it's noisy/hissy. With anything playing through it, you won't notice though.

The recon is much better in that respect. It doesn't have the background hiss. If you're not chatting, the volume will be fine on the 702.

The pros and cons of the recon vs the mixamp have been discussed many many times. I posted a link to a great comparison video a couple pages back. Go do some more reading.

I spoke with the astro guys at pax and they confirmed that the new model is just visual. All internals will be the same.


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> The mixamp is definitely noisy. It's one of the drawbacks of the unit. It's got a weak amp and it's noisy/hissy. With anything playing through it, you won't notice though.
> 
> The recon is much better in that respect. It doesn't have the background hiss. If you're not chatting, the volume will be fine on the 702.
> 
> ...


 
  
 that's disappointing - it would be nice if they fixed the hiss issue :/
 hmm shall go find that comparison video 
  
 ----
 and...
 why would anyone pick the Sound Blaster Z over the Omni then?
  
 can't seem to find a good price on the Recon3D guess I have to just buy the Mixamp.. or make do with Stereo sound until X7 is available.
 PS4 Stereo -> Sound Blaster Z/Omni -> Fidelio X1 + BoomPro should sound way better than my Sony PULSE Wireless Elite right?
  
 would the following FiiO model work? FiiO D7
  
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FOG4O34


----------



## pack21

But during a chatting game, can I adjust Recon3D over PS4 settings, how people do? 

Is the only question that is holding me to purchase a unit.

Thx


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> that's disappointing - it would be nice if they fixed the hiss issue :/
> hmm shall go find that comparison video
> 
> ----
> ...


 
  
 Some people like the internal unit so they don't have extra stuff cluttering their desk.  Sometimes the Z is cheaper.
  


pack21 said:


> But during a chatting game, can I adjust Recon3D over PS4 settings, how people do?
> 
> Is the only question that is holding me to purchase a unit.
> 
> Thx


 
  
 Please clarify your question?  I'm not sure what you're asking.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Try to use other USB ports. The best would be, if you try it on an external hub or USB 3.
 Tried to unplug not used devices (USB Printer and so on)?
 Try it. In some cases this will help.


----------



## pack21

stillhart said:


> Some people like the internal unit so they don't have extra stuff cluttering their desk.  Sometimes the Z is cheaper.
> 
> 
> Please clarify your question?  I'm not sure what you're asking.




I was asking if I can balance de game/chat volume in PS4 settings (there is a setting where I can balance, but don't work in mixamp pro).


----------



## Stillhart

pack21 said:


> I was asking if I can balance de game/chat volume in PS4 settings (there is a setting where I can balance, but don't work in mixamp pro).


 
 Oh I see.  Hmm, I've never tried it.  No idea...


----------



## Abula

fegefeuer said:


> Wait for the Soundblaster X7 if you have the cash.


 
 Thanks for the suggestion, i was about to go with the Omni, but this seems like a step up from it, any rumors into how much will it cost? or when will it be released?


----------



## RXShadow

abula said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, i was about to go with the Omni, but this seems like a step up from it, any rumors into how much will it cost? or when will it be released?


 
 Said to be $400. No release date AFAIK


----------



## Reckless95

freegrazer said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> 
> So I just got myself a set of AKG K702's and an Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition last week. One problem I noticed immediately when I'd set everything up:
> ...




I plug the USB Into the back of my computer because the only use of it is chat for PS4 and I use a USB mic. No hiss for me, winner winner chicken dinner. Let me know if it works for you.

EDIT: You could probably even try using a wall adapter USB, like an apple one.


----------



## pack21

stillhart said:


> Oh I see.  Hmm, I've never tried it.  No idea...


 
  Thx. 
  
  
 One more question:
  
 Can i use Recon3D only connected by optical to my TV to watch movies, and  USB cable to a wall charger? Will i have the THX surround presets from R3D? 
 I ask this question because in Recon3D i only see 3 options PS3 \ PC \ Xbox, for TV which set should i set?

 For gaming on PS4, I'm thinking this setup 
  
 Optical PS4 ------ Optical R3D------3.5  R3D ---------  MP3  Mixamp (Surround off) -----3.5  Mixamp --------- AKG702
  
 USB PS4  -------  USB Mixamp (For balance the chat)
 USB R3D ------- USB hub for power
  
  
 This mater to try MixAmp at lowest possible volume, where hiss is minimal ..... This assuming that Recon3D has no hiss at louder volume.


----------



## Yethal

pack21 said:


> Thx.
> 
> 
> One more question:
> ...


 
 Why on earth would You like to daisy chain recon 3d with the mixamp?
  
 Most tv's output 2 channel audio through optical out and not dolby digital (which mixamp and recon 3d uses)
  
 Just use PS3 preset.
  
 Also, why do You overcomplicate Your setup like that?


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

stillhart said:


> Oh I see.  Hmm, I've never tried it.  No idea...


 
 This is probably my very last question that will fully point me toward what is my next steps and how i learn better about audio.

 1. Mixamp Astros White noise is the same noise you get with headphones as you do get with the a40s headset? 
 Note: im using the wireless amp, 2012 MLG Edition. 

 2. Sound quality alone (Virtual sound 7.1), how much better is it to get headphones like the HD598 or K701/702?
 Note: If you can scale everything based on your preference, would be great. 
 Note 2: i have reviewed the first page, im noting toward your opinion!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All Mixamps hiss, and it's directly embedded into the stream. Meaning no matter how low you put your Mixamp volume and add an amp, it will still have the same hiss at the same decibel level.

Test: 1 Master volume low, external amp high = hiss X
Test 2: Master volume high, no external amp = hiss X
Test 3: Master volume high, external amp low = hiss X

There is NO way to get rid of the embedded hiss of the Mixamp. Once you reach the same volume you're used to, it will be the same hiss.

If you want less hiss, get a Recon 3D, older HK, Marantz or Denon receiver with DH or try and find an elusive Victor/JVC SU-DH1. Good luck with that. You can also use less sensitive headphones like the 600ohm Beyers or the Hifiman HE-4 which reduce hiss quite a bit, IIRC. Been awhile.

Note: I'm talking about the hiss that is embedded, not whatever hiss you may be having with some shoddy USB or mic connection.


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> This is probably my very last question that will fully point me toward what is my next steps and how i learn better about audio.
> 
> 1. Mixamp Astros White noise is the same noise you get with headphones as you do get with the a40s headset?
> Note: im using the wireless amp, 2012 MLG Edition.
> ...


 
 If you read the reviews on the front page, it's pretty clear that the Senns and AKGs blow the A40 out of the water.  I haven't heard the Astros to speak from first-hand experience, but that's the whole point of the guide.


----------



## conquerator2

What MLE says. The emitted hiss is constant and less sensitive headphones reduce it quite a bit. And yep, it is a lot better with the 3D but there's still some minor left.... Much less than with Mixamp/Turtle Beach definitely though!


----------



## Freegrazer

Stillhart was right, I didn't really notice the Mixamp hiss/noise while playing the 3 games I've tested with so perhaps it's not as big a problem as I initially thought and maybe I can live it.
  
 I am worried that some specific games might suffer more than others though.  Especially horror games like Outlast, or upcoming titles like Alien: Isolation or The Evil Within. 
  
 Those kind of games have amazing atmospheric sounds and effects that occur amidst total silence to great effect.  Which is precisely where the hiss/noise may annoy the crap out of me. Time will tell I guess.  
  
 I'm seriously considering getting the Recon3D, and switching between that and the Mixamp.  That I'd have the choice of DH + a little hiss, or SBX + less/no hiss.  Best of both worlds :-D
  
 Thanks guys, appreciate the advice.


----------



## AxelCloris

I may sell off the Recon3D, actually. Since I have the Mixamp 5.8 now and I've built a gaming PC I don't have much need for the Recon3D anymore. Sometimes convenience trumps sound quality, or hiss in this case.


----------



## Freegrazer

conquerator2 said:


> What MLE says. The emitted hiss is constant and less sensitive headphones reduce it quite a bit. And yep, it is a lot better with the 3D but there's still some minor left.... Much less than with Mixamp/Turtle Beach definitely though!


 

 More headphones?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 LOL you guys would have me broke in no time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I have a set of HD650's that I use for all my music and movies.  Have them hooked into a Soundblaster ZxR and they are just sublime, best cans I've ever owned.  But they stay right where they are, I don't fancy plugging and unplugging them all the time. 
  
 So I literally just bought the K702's to be my dedicated console audio setup, and it will be a while before I splash out on another new set.  Although, I have been eyeing the HD800's for a long while now......


----------



## yezz12

Anyone experienced with DT990s 250 Ohm + Bravo amp like Bravo V2/V3?


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

thank you guys for the input.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

One more Question!


 Mixamp Pro -> K702s and Q701

 Will i need an amp add on to get the sound quality at its max?

 If so, name the best (Best with lowest price possible)


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> One more Question!
> 
> 
> Mixamp Pro -> K702s and Q701
> ...


 
  
 You will need an amp to get the best SQ, yes.  I wouldn't say you need one in general, but if you're looking for the best SQ, yes get an amp.
  
 You might look into the E09k, E12, Magni, Vali or O2.  All reviewed on the front page.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

stillhart said:


> You will need an amp to get the best SQ, yes.  I wouldn't say you need one in general, but if you're looking for the best SQ, yes get an amp.
> 
> You might look into the E09k, E12, Magni, Vali or O2.  All reviewed on the front page.


thank you for the help guys, it was very appteciat3d, sorry for the repetitive questions I know was easily findable but I preferr to actually ask people and have real conversations. My ideal setup is now.

Q701/e09k/mixamp pro 2013 or New look 2014/modmic which will be covered with the headphone wire in techflex to reduce mess


----------



## Stillhart

dementxusa said:


> thank you for the help guys, it was very appteciat3d, sorry for the repetitive questions I know was easily findable but I preferr to actually ask people and have real conversations. My ideal setup is now.
> 
> Q701/e09k/mixamp pro 2013 or New look 2014/modmic which will be covered with the headphone wire in techflex to reduce mess


 
 Sounds like a solid setup.  I'm sure you'll enjoy the hell out of it.


----------



## pack21

Many thinks X7 is overpriced, but doing math right the price is there, it seems the set of various devices.

 Making the total cost of these devices that I believe are within in X7, maybe is not so overpriced has many cry.

Let's see, X7 is a:

 MixAmp (we can balance chat) + modding amplifier + miniPC able to process tweats and controls from app + wifi, Bluetooth, NFC receiver (we only see headphone cable)

Buying all this devices separately how much would cost? Very close to X7, i think.


----------



## wilflare

I don't think I'll be able to take the hiss... I can get a little OCD at times.
  
 the Recon3D and Victor/JVC SU-DH1 definitely got my attention
  
 the FiiO D7 won't work right?


----------



## AxelCloris

For those who are interested, Amazon has a sale coming up tomorrow at 7 PM EDT/4 PM PDT on the HyperX Cloud. If it legitimately is $40 I'll be picking up a pair for myself. If it's 50% off MSRP and is only a $5 savings then I'm gonna pass.


----------



## wilflare

axelcloris said:


> For those who are interested, Amazon has a sale coming up tomorrow at 7 PM EDT/4 PM PDT on the HyperX Cloud. If it legitimately is $40 I'll be picking up a pair for myself. If it's 50% off MSRP and is only a $5 savings then I'm gonna pass.


 
 that's a really good price... but I already bought the Fidelio X1 hmm
 wonder how the HyperX competes with the Sony gaming headsets


----------



## Abula

axelcloris said:


> For those who are interested, Amazon has a sale coming up tomorrow at 7 PM EDT/4 PM PDT on the HyperX Cloud. If it legitimately is $40 I'll be picking up a pair for myself. If it's 50% off MSRP and is only a $5 savings then I'm gonna pass.


 
 Amazon has different MSRP for the black n white, hope its at least 50% over the $100 MSRP (not the $150 hopping), then would be a nice deal at $50.


----------



## deanorthk

I have a xonar U7, but I do admit the X7 look great, as long as it can handle dolby headphone for games, and good enough for movies.
  
 My headphone is a modded HD650, and I sure would love to plug my PS4 or PS3 onto the soundcard, to minimize the peripherical.
 Got an old mixamp, and the HD650 are not teaming well with it.
 On the contrary, i'm sure it would with the X7...


----------



## Dark_wizzie

What is the ultimate competitive FPS gaming headphone? I have the HD800s for gaming right now. Both AD700x and K701 got 10/10 for competitiveness. How does the HD800s compare? The sound engine on BF4 is pretty poor, but it's still nice to try to get the best positional setup I can, and maybe for when I play another FPS game.


----------



## Yethal

dark_wizzie said:


> What is the ultimate competitive FPS gaming headphone? I have the HD800s for gaming right now. Both AD700x and K701 got 10/10 for competitiveness. How does the HD800s compare? The sound engine on BF4 is pretty poor, but it's still nice to try to get the best positional setup I can, and maybe for when I play another FPS game.


 
 HD800 are in the ballpark of best gaming cans ever made. As pointed out on the first page of this guide.


----------



## Evshrug

pack21 said:


> Anyone knows how soundblaster Recon3D mix the game and chat audio, works likes mixamp? Can I control in the device how much audio goes to game and chat? Or is a fixed value setting on PC?
> 
> Thx



You can always adjust chat volume on PC, you just turn up the volume on the Recon3D/external amp till the chat is loud enough, then go into the game's settings menu and turn down the game volume till you have a good balance.





pack21 said:


> But during a chatting game, can I adjust Recon3D over PS4 settings, how people do?
> 
> Is the only question that is holding me to purchase a unit.
> 
> Thx



Even most console games have settings options with a volume control, so you can adjust games the same way as I mentioned above for PC.

Keep in mind you can also boost mic gain if people say you're too quiet; there's a switch in the side of the recon3D to set mic gain to three positions, and if you regularly play with someone else and they are too quiet, you can tell them to go into their PS4 settings>devices>audio settings>microphone settings and adjust the mic gain slider.





dark_wizzie said:


> What is the ultimate competitive FPS gaming headphone? I have the HD800s for gaming right now. Both AD700x and K701 got 10/10 for competitiveness. How does the HD800s compare? The sound engine on BF4 is pretty poor, but it's still nice to try to get the best positional setup I can, and maybe for when I play another FPS game.



Rather than waiting for someone to review the HD800 + gaming + surround, think about what you know about it's sound and connect the dots with what sound characteristics make for an extra competitive headphone...

•easy to hear lots of detail
•a sense of distance and instrument separation (soundstage)
•audible but not distracting bass that also doesn't bleed over other sounds and hide details.
•Comfortable enough not to distract you during extended gaming sessions.

Any headphone that exhibits these traits will be a very good competitive headphone and really respond well to virtual surround processing, as said in all of the headphone reviews that were marked as particularly good for competitive awareness. Just having a lot of sonic information doesn't make you a great gamer though, you still have to be able to take in information and analyze and extrapolate to understand what's happening next and your options for how to react.

So yeah, the HD800 has been many times over reviewed as the greatest ever headphone to do all the things I listed for a competitive headphone, which you should already realize if you spent the money and already own/listen to the headphone, but if you don't already realize that the HD800 is capable to the point of overkill then it probably won't make you a more skillful player.


----------



## PixelSkills

I have the Sennheiser G4me One and Astro Mixamp. I was playing last night and my friends kept saying can you hear that sound its so creepy. I couldnt hear it.. this got me really mad considering I spent well over $300 for this setup and was expecting to hear everything in the sound mix. Especially since they both have a $80 sony gold wireless headset and I have a setup that costs 3 times as much.
  
 My question is could it be a problem with the mixamp not providing enough power to my sennheisers and need a separate headphone amp to power them? Or do they just suck? They are only 50 ohm and from what I heard the astro mixamp should be fine powering 50 Ohm drivers.
  
 Please give me some advice before I send this crap back lol.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

pixelskills said:


> I have the Sennheiser G4me One and Astro Mixamp. I was playing last night and my friends kept saying can you hear that sound its so creepy. I couldnt hear it.. this got me really mad considering I spent well over $300 for this setup and was expecting to hear everything in the sound mix. Especially since they both have a $80 sony gold wireless headset and I have a setup that costs 3 times as much.
> 
> My question is could it be a problem with the mixamp not providing enough power to my sennheisers and need a separate headphone amp to power them? Or do they just suck? They are only 50 ohm and from what I heard the astro mixamp should be fine powering 50 Ohm drivers.
> 
> ...


sounds like your friends were screwing with you?


----------



## PixelSkills

dementxusa said:


> sounds like your friends were screwing with you?


 
 No they actually were not, because when I listened harder I could hear it very very very very faintly in the background. Also it wasnt a bunch of people at the same time, they both said it on different times. I really am looking for some audiophiles with some experience with the astro mixamp let me know if it could be caused by not enough power.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

pixelskills said:


> No they actually were not, because when I listened harder I could hear it very very very very faintly in the background. Also it wasnt a bunch of people at the same time, they both said it on different times. I really am looking for some audiophiles with some experience with the astro mixamp let me know if it could be caused by not enough power.


 
 the HD598 is 50 ohms, atro is 48 i think?


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

dementxusa said:


> the HD598 is 50 ohms, atro is 48 i think?


 
 i was told by some people that it should work too.


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> I have the Sennheiser G4me One and Astro Mixamp. I was playing last night and my friends kept saying can you hear that sound its so creepy. I couldnt hear it.. this got me really mad considering I spent well over $300 for this setup and was expecting to hear everything in the sound mix. Especially since they both have a $80 sony gold wireless headset and I have a setup that costs 3 times as much.
> 
> My question is could it be a problem with the mixamp not providing enough power to my sennheisers and need a separate headphone amp to power them? Or do they just suck? They are only 50 ohm and from what I heard the astro mixamp should be fine powering 50 Ohm drivers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, it may also just be you.  Apparently, in Destiny, loot chests make a humming sound that's really noticeable "if you have good headphones".  Some of my friends can hear it clear as day.  I can only hear it if I'm standing right next to the chest and there's no music or anything else going on.  I know it's not my setup because I have a very good setup.  I just can't really pick that sound out.
  
 Maybe we're just ear-tarded from too many loud concerts...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Well, it may also just be you.  Apparently, in Destiny, loot chests make a humming sound that's really noticeable "if you have good headphones".  Some of my friends can hear it clear as day.  I can only hear it if I'm standing right next to the chest and there's no music or anything else going on.  I know it's not my setup because I have a very good setup.  I just can't really pick that sound out.
> 
> Maybe we're just ear-tarded from too many loud concerts...



Yeah Still and I can have the same headphones/setup, and I'll hear the chests a little better. Sometimes I miss it too though, I miss it less now that I know what to listen for and my mind kinda filters through the sounds for that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

dark_wizzie said:


> What is the ultimate competitive FPS gaming headphone? I have the HD800s for gaming right now. Both AD700x and K701 got 10/10 for competitiveness. How does the HD800s compare? The sound engine on BF4 is pretty poor, but it's still nice to try to get the best positional setup I can, and maybe for when I play another FPS game.


 
  
 Don't look elsewhere again.
  
 Make sure your amp gives good enough voltage swing. The impedance in kickbass regions for instance goes up to 640 Ohm.


----------



## Freegrazer

Man this thread is packed full of great info.
  
 I'm just about to buy myself  a set of Fidelio X1's  (exciting times!)
  
 I noticed that on Amazon.co.uk (I'm in Ireland so I gotta buy from there) the model listed is Philips Fidelio X1/00, whereas on Amazon.com the model listed is Philips Fidelio X1/28 (this is from the Amazon link on the front page).  There is a difference in the price too.
  
 Anybody know what the differences between the two models are , or if there even are any?
  
 I've google-ized this and I found one or two similar questions that had no definite answers.
  
  
 One other thing is that MLE recommends replacing the stock cable on the X1's with Mediabridge Audio Cables.  Unfotunately Amazon.co.uk don't sell these cables.
  
 Can somebody please recommend a suitable alternative cable?  Preferrably somebody who has replaced their X1's stock cable and has seen(heard)  the improvement first hand?
  
 Cheers


----------



## marcelolacerda7

Hello, I wonder, of the Following models, Which would best headphone positional audio for competitive gaming. The game would be Cs GO and future in the new COD. I'm a competitive level where any extreme detail can help me. Currently playing with the PC360. But I'm looking for a headphone open and closed headphone. I have a creative titanium HD , I  don't have interest in purchasing an amp for heaphone. Already experienced dt880 600ohm in my titanium HD and found very acceptable , though all peoples speak  she would not go perfectly, so I think this relative. They are heaphones:

 Open: AKG K701 / AKG Q701 / ATH AD900 and HD 598 =  one option

 Closed: AKG K550 / ATH A900 / PC 350 SE / Denon D2000 = one option .
  
 Thanks


----------



## Suckafish

I currently have the AD700X headphones and I primarily do single player PC gaming.  I think they sound great, but I have been considering looking at other options for a more immersive gaming experience (if possible) with a Soundblaster Z card.  The Sennheiser 558's were brought to my attention.  Would these provide a better single player gaming experience over the AD700X's?  Do you have any other recommendations that would be more in line with my goal?


----------



## ben24

Ok, so I have an Astro Mixamp but I'm wondering what headset to get. Should I get the PC360 for $210 or is it worth the extra money for the ADG1 at $280? And before anyone says I'm better off getting the AD700x or whatever I want a proper headset. For me it's worth paying extra for the convenience of the attached mic. I just want to know whether it is worth the extra money for the ADG1 or if its not really much better than the PC360.
  
 Also, out of curiosity, does the G4me One sound any better than the PC360 or are the update purely cosmetic?


----------



## Dark_wizzie

Best option under $100 would be Kingston HyperX Cloud, a headset that doesn't actually suck! (Whhhaaaaat?!) That, and the ATH M40x, which is basically M50x with a little bit less bass (more neutral?). Obviously, no mic with the M40x. In terms of what is considered to be best headphones for serious FPS gameplay instead of awesome audiophile music experience, AD700x and K701/Q701 (er... HD800s if you want to spend that much on gaming). HD558s would also be a decent choice as an all-arounder. Sennheiser's headsets basically charge you extra (too much) for having a mic stuck onto a headphone.


----------



## Suckafish

Is there any difference between the AD700X and the ATH-ADG1 besides the ADG1 having a built in mic and USB DAC?  It seems like the drivers are the exact same between the two.


----------



## Reckless95

suckafish said:


> Is there any difference between the AD700X and the ATH-ADG1 besides the ADG1 having a built in mic and USB DAC?  It seems like the drivers are the exact same between the two.


 
 No. Based off the 700X.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fibsNJQD6o


----------



## Enginigmatic

I'm going for a (mostly) wireless setup between my 360, PS3, PC, and hopefully someday a PS4. I ordered the Astro A50 but only afterward heard about the Skullcandy PLYR1. It seems like the latter has a superior sound quality? I figured that the only way to truly find out is to order both sets and compare them, then return the worse set.
  
 I don't consider myself an audiophile, or at least I haven't had a compelling reason to invest heavily in audio. I am content with the price/performance of my Sony MDR-V6 and wonder if my ears can even appreciate better headphones. If either of these sets can meet the MDR-V6 or merely come close, then I'd be happy with that. The thing is about rating sound quality is that one person's "good" is another person's "terrible". Maybe someone familiar with the MDR-V6 can thus tell me what to expect relative to the A50 or PLYR1.
  
 As far as being able to use a single headset with multiple systems, I imagine I need some kind of switch?
  
 But I guess an even better question is, have I overlooked any options? If I want a wireless (I'm mostly OK with a 360 chat cable) headset (with microphone) to use with multiple systems interchangeably, what kind of setup might give me excellent audio quality?


----------



## Reckless95

ben24 said:


> Ok, so I have an Astro Mixamp but I'm wondering what headset to get. Should I get the PC360 for $210 or is it worth the extra money for the ADG1 at $280? And before anyone says I'm better off getting the AD700x or whatever I want a proper headset. For me it's worth paying extra for the convenience of the attached mic. I just want to know whether it is worth the extra money for the ADG1 or if its not really much better than the PC360.
> 
> Also, out of curiosity, does the G4me One sound any better than the PC360 or are the update purely cosmetic?


 

 Have you ever thought of a mod mic though? Just asking. With the ADG1, you're paying $280, you can get the 900X for $190+50 for the mod mic $240. Or 700x $150+50 for $200. Just my thought. This way the mic is detachable.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVFKbVPTdG8


----------



## Dark_wizzie

reckless95 said:


> Have you ever thought of a mod mic though? Just asking. With the ADG1, you're paying $280, you can get the 900X for $190+50 for the mod mic $240. Or 700x $150+50 for $200. Just my thought. This way the mic is detachable.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVFKbVPTdG8


 
 Yeah. Often times you find headset version of a headphone, but they almost always charge too much extra for the mic. Or, you can use a desktop mic like Blue Yeti, which I personally prefer. I got my Yeti for only $63.


----------



## ben24

Double post


----------



## ben24

reckless95 said:


> Have you ever thought of a mod mic though? Just asking. With the ADG1, you're paying $280, you can get the 900X for $190+50 for the mod mic $240. Or 700x $150+50 for $200. Just my thought. This way the mic is detachable.


 
 Yeah I thought about it for the 700x. The modmic costs $60 here though so by the time I get the 700x and the mic I'm already at the price of the PC360. I'm only going to use the headphones for gaming so I'd rather have the convenience of a headset than deal with with the hassle of tangling wires and having to find the mic mute switch on the wires mid game etc. Another concern I have is the fit of the ad700x since I've probably got a slightly smaller than average-sized head. I can't think of anything more annoying than having the headphones slide down your head while trying to game. This would also be a worry with the ADG1 but it looks like it might be slightly better than the 700x in this regard.


----------



## ben24

dark_wizzie said:


> Yeah. Often times you find headset version of a headphone, but they almost always charge too much extra for the mic. Or, you can use a desktop mic like Blue Yeti, which I personally prefer. I got my Yeti for only $63.


 
 I thought that one of the reasons the ADG1 was so much more expensive than the ad700x was because of the USB DAC. I really don't have a clue how much it's actually worth but I heard it puts the price up by something like $30 which is annoying for someone like me who'd never use it. Without having to buy the USB DAC it would still be slightly overpriced compared to the 700x + mic but not ridiculously.


----------



## wilflare

seems like I'll go with the Mixamp in the end, just a few more questions
  
 (1) BoomPro and Mixamp - Would I need to use the Y-Cable? Or will the Mixamp auto-detect the inline mic?
  
 (2) BoomPro Mic Volume and Chat Volume - Is there anyway I can adjust this on the BoomPro?
  
 (3) BoomPro Volume switch - What should the volume on this be? Or should I leave the setting alone? (I was actually thinking of maxing this and using just the Mixamp knob for control)
  
 (4) Mixamp and PS4 - I'm currently using the Sony Wireless PULSE Elite so the headset allows me to change the volume - do I use the Mixamp knob for this? or that BoomPro Volume switch?
  
 (5) External DAC/AMP for PS4 and Mixamp - Would a DAC be needed/useful for my X1 + BoomPro? I cannot use a USB DAC too right? (or do I just need a RCA to USB adapter?) - thinking of my Audinst MX-1


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> seems like I'll go with the Mixamp in the end, just a few more questions
> 
> (1) BoomPro and Mixamp - Would I need to use the Y-Cable? Or will the Mixamp auto-detect the inline mic?
> 
> ...


 
 1. No need to use the Y-cable, the boom pro ends with 4-pole minijack the same as the headset port on the mixamp
  
 2. It has a line-level volume control but adjusting balance between the two is not going to be possible. Use the balance knob on the Mixamp.
  
 3. Max it out and control from the mixamp
  
 4. Use the Mixamp knob, leave the boom pro switch alone
  
 5. You can't stack a DAC with the Mixamp (theoretically you can but it's pointless, no SQ improvement there) AMP would come in handy, go for the first page of this thread for recommendations.


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> seems like I'll go with the Mixamp in the end, just a few more questions
> 
> (1) BoomPro and Mixamp - Would I need to use the Y-Cable? Or will the Mixamp auto-detect the inline mic?
> 
> ...


 
  
 1. Auto-detect. Will work out of the box
  
 2. Not really, just mic mute.
  
 3. Max it out and use Mixamp to control the volume
  
 4. Max it out (boom pro volume) and control the volume using mixamp knob
  
 5. You can't stack together Mixamp with another DAC. Theoretically You can plug DAC output to the mixamp analog input but You'll lose surround sound, Sound quality would not be improved and there is practically nothing to gain here.


----------



## wilflare

thanks for the reply! 
what are the situations where I would need to use the Y-Cable then? I read for the Sound Blaster Z I would need to separate my Mic and Sound cables via Y-Cable? 

Hmm. So only an Amp would be useful right? I looked at the thread. guess it's the Schiit Magni then?


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> thanks for the reply!
> what are the situations where I would need to use the Y-Cable then? I read for the Sound Blaster Z I would need to separate my Mic and Sound cables via Y-Cable?
> 
> Hmm. So only an Amp would be useful right? I looked at the thread. guess it's the Schiit Magni then?


 
 For devices with separate headphones and mic input (like PC soundcards)
  
 Whatever AMP works for You and Your budget, I use Schiit Magni and I couldn't be happier about it but YMMV


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> For devices with separate headphones and mic input (like PC soundcards)
> 
> Whatever AMP works for You and Your budget, I use Schiit Magni and I couldn't be happier about it but YMMV




thanks! hmm so you use the Magni and the Mixamp together? I'm kinda inclined to get one too. 

any recommendations on a good extension cord to get?


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> thanks! hmm so you use the Magni and the Mixamp together? I'm kinda inclined to get one too.
> 
> any recommendations on a good extension cord to get?


 
 I bought the shortest I could find. The Mixamp sits on the Magni, but then again, I'm a desktop and monitor player I don't need long cables. Afaik Monoprice is a good option for US players looking for cables


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> I bought the shortest I could find. The Mixamp sits on the Magni, but then again, I'm a desktop and monitor player I don't need long cables. Afaik Monoprice is a good option for US players looking for cables




thanks! 
hmm just to check. what's your set up like? 

I'm a Desktop and Monitor player too for my PC and PS4.

So it would be 
PS4 to Mixamp 
Mixamp Y-Cable 
1 to Schiit Magni and Headphones (X1 in my case) 
2 to Boompro?


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> thanks!
> hmm just to check. what's your set up like?
> 
> I'm a Desktop and Monitor player too for my PC and PS4.
> ...


 
 It's in my sig
  
 It should look like this:
 Mixamp => Y-Cable headphones end => 3.5mm to RCA cable => Schiit Magni => Headphones end of Boom Pro PC splitter
 Mixamp => Y-Cable microphone end => Microphone end of Boom Pro PC splitter


----------



## Enginigmatic

The Astro A50s sound yucky to me. Not impressed at all. I think what ruins everything is the bass. The bass sounds more like the sound of someone driving past you with their music playing too loudly I can feel it more than I can hear the notes. It's got all of this force behind it without the clarity to back it up. The treble in contrast is pretty clear. But the overall sound is muddy. I tried all of the presets for both music and gaming, and am not happy with the sound, especially for the price ($200 Refurbished). Upgraded to the latest firmware as well. Build quality, packaging, comfort are all great. Just sounds likes crap.
  
 These are definitely going back. I still have the Skullcandy PLYR1 to test, hopefully they are better but I guess my standards are higher than I realize.
  
 EDIT: PLYR1 are definitely better; could notice the difference right off the bat. The reviews in this thread don't lie.
  
 Basically the bass is less overpowering and the sound is far less muddy with the PLYR1. Another problem I had with my A50s was a strange background hiss... Probably interference of some kind -- not sure where it's coming from. I know that my old VIZIO TV has a hiss like this when there's no sound coming from the speakers, so it was possibly just being transferred. I got the same hiss plugging the A50 base directly into my PC, only worse. The PLYR1 doesn't have this. I don't know if it's a defect, or maybe the problem is my fault and the PLYR1 does a better job at eliminating it.
  
 Overall I feel like the PLYR1 is the better set. Still doesn't compare to my MDR-V6s, but the difference isn't so jarring (and in some ways I kind of like the stronger bass.)
  
 It's weird when the cheaper of two products is the superior product...


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> It's in my sig
> 
> It should look like this:
> Mixamp => Y-Cable headphones end => 3.5mm to RCA cable => Schiit Magni => Headphones end of Boom Pro PC splitter
> Mixamp => Y-Cable microphone end => Microphone end of Boom Pro PC splitter


 
  
 thanks finally saw your sig (was on mobile, couldn't see)
 woah, how much did you spend on that entire set-up man?
  
 shipping from Schiit to Singapore would be around $55USD :/


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> thanks finally saw your sig (was on mobile, couldn't see)
> woah, how much did you spend on that entire set-up man?
> 
> shipping from Schiit to Singapore would be around $55USD :/


 
 Total cost of all this stuff shipping and customs fee was about 750$. Although remember that this stuff didn't just happen overnight I bought this over the course of the entire previous year, also my newest additions (Modi, sys and the cables) I bought with the severance pay from my previous job.


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> Total cost of all this stuff shipping and customs fee was about 750$. Although remember that I didn't buy it all at once, also there are people on head-fi with 100x more expensive setups


 
 thanks! 
  
 hmm your setup is very interesting, especially the Schiit Sys - this would allow me to connect both the Mixamp and the Sound Blaster to one common point
 the problem now is the mic... I need it connected to both the PC and the PS4 :/


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> thanks!
> 
> hmm your setup is very interesting, especially the Schiit Sys - this would allow me to connect both the Mixamp and the Sound Blaster to one common point
> the problem now is the mic... I need it connected to both the PC and the PS4 :/


 
 No problem, Connect one of the daisy chain ports on the mixamp to the soundcard's mic input using 3.5mm cable and connect the USB cable to Your PS4


----------



## martin vegas

Driveclubs going to be free for playstation plus members in October!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> Driveclubs going to be free for playstation plus members in October!


 
 Sadly, it's only a demo


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Sadly, it's only a demo


 
 I think it is closer to a full feature game than a demo, content wise. It is not the retail version, but I believe it has all its features just in limited quantity.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> I think it is closer to a full feature game than a demo, content wise. It is not the retail version, but I believe it has all its features just in limited quantity.


 
 All the mechanics are there, but it's only one track and 14 cars. Enough to get a taste though


----------



## conquerator2

Yup.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, yay, since PS3 PSN was still clearly the stronger value. A rich demo is a nice thing that makes PSN a bit better.


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> All the mechanics are there, but it's only one track and 14 cars. Enough to get a taste though


 

 If it's just one track it should be out before the game..not bothered about paying for it just can't see the point of a demo coming out with the game.. playing first light now..it's a show of what the ps4 can do and what watchdogs could have been but held back by xbox one sorry I mean last gen consoles!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> If it's just one track it should be out before the game..not bothered about paying for it just can't see the point of a demo coming out with the game.. playing first light now..it's a show of what the ps4 can do and what watchdogs could have been but held back by xbox one sorry I mean last gen consoles!


 
 Mostly it's for the people who want to try it out and then upgrade to a full game either for 10$ less.
 I wish there were more exclusive titles on both platforms. It would actually give me an incentive to buy an Xbox


----------



## Stillhart

Glad to read there will be a demo for Drive Club.  I was really excited for FH2, but the demo kind of turned me off to the game.  I'm curious if Drive Club (which is basically the same thing but for PS4) will make me want to get it instead.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> All the mechanics are there, but it's only one track and 14 cars. Enough to get a taste though




Fyi
The PS Plus Edition of Driveclub comes with 11 tracks, all based on one location, India. Ten cars will be yours to choose from, along with all the multiplayer modes.

Forza horizon 2 seems cool... But im not so interested in the "hipster" story line. 

Keeping my fingers crossed that Project Cars is a success.


----------



## martin vegas

lenroot77 said:


> Fyi
> The PS Plus Edition of Driveclub comes with 11 tracks, all based on one location, India. Ten cars will be yours to choose from, along with all the multiplayer modes.
> 
> Forza horizon 2 seems cool... But im not so interested in the "hipster" story line.
> ...


 
 Driveclub looks awesome..they hasn't been a decent racer like this since project gotham racing on the xbox!


----------



## Freegrazer

Just bought myself a set of Fidelio X1's to be my new dedicated PS4 cans, and I'm all excited now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





   Can't wait to get 'em!
  
 But man it was mega hard to find a suitable replacement for the stock cable.  
  
 What kept happening was that I'd search the web for a decent quality cable (10 - 20 bucks) and everytime I found a suitable one with the right connector and the perfect length, the item either couldn't be shipped to my country (Ireland) or else it cost a fortune.
  
 For example, on Amazon UK:
  
 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B00LK06B1G/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1411257153&sr=8-8&keywords=mediabridge+3.5
  
 £75???    That's $122!    or    €95 in my case!
  
  
 Compare that to this, the very same cable on Amazon.com (wouldn't ship to Ireland though):
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B00CTUUA5Y/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1411257374&sr=8-3&keywords=mediabridge+3.5
  
 $10.99    or    £6.70    or    €8.50
  
  
 Of course there were many other alternative cables of lesser quality available, but to find a good quality cable with a good proper fit like the one with the little extra bit of bevel recommended previously by Mad Lust Envy here:\
  
  

  
  
 Literally took me 4 hours of solid searching before I gave in and bought it on ebay from a seller in the US.  Cable cost me $16.59.  Shipping to Ireland cost me $26.43.
  
 Feel kinda silly now having to pay that kinda price after all that searching, but it can be so difficult to get certain things here in Europe that are easily obtained in the US.  I hope it will have been worth it, and that I will benefit from not choosing one of the many widely available crappy cables that I had to wade through today.


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.oculus.com/blog/oculus-connect-2014
  


> People locate objects in the world using cues that arise from the interaction of sound with the scene, combined with the body of the listener (HRTFs) and head tracking. A great audio engine for VR has to reproduce these cues to fully convince the human perceptual system.
> 
> As part of our audio initiative, we’ve licensed RealSpace3D’s audio technology, a software stack developed over 10 years based on technology from the University of Maryland. RealSpace3D’s tech enables high-fidelity VR audio with a combination of HRTF spatialization and integrated reverberation algorithms.


 
  
 http://realspace3daudio.com/


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> No problem, Connect one of the daisy chain ports on the mixamp to the soundcard's mic input using 3.5mm cable and connect the USB cable to Your PS4


 
  
 i actually don't understand how this is supposed to work - could you elaborate?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering you NEED Playstation Plus to play online, and IIRC Driveclub is an online only game... well...yeah. I wouldn't think a new game like that would be free. A prologue/demo makes sense.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> Fyi
> The PS Plus Edition of Driveclub comes with 11 tracks, all based on one location, India. Ten cars will be yours to choose from, along with all the multiplayer modes.
> 
> Forza horizon 2 seems cool... But im not so interested in the "hipster" story line.
> ...


 
  
 I don't think you're using the work "hipster" correctly.  Hipster don't drive supercars.  Hipsters will drive bicycles with one gear because it's hip to have something ****ty.
  
 I agree tho, the storyline is ****, the music is ****, etc.  Drive Club has an opportunity to stand out by being better than ****... we'll see if they can achieve that.


----------



## lenroot77

stillhart said:


> I don't think you're using the work "hipster" correctly.  Hipster don't drive supercars.  Hipsters will drive bicycles with one gear because it's hip to have something ****ty.
> 
> I agree tho, the storyline is ****, the music is ****, etc.  Drive Club has an opportunity to stand out by being better than ****... we'll see if they can achieve that.




That's the problem the cars don't seem to mix with the scene they have created. HORIZON is just toooooo cool...

Im very curious to see what Drive Club's social interaction offers. Could be a lot of fun with friends.


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> i actually don't understand how this is supposed to work - could you elaborate?


 
 Daisy chain ports on the mixamp (the two minijacks on the front) are also mic out ports to connect to the pc, so connect one end of 3.5mm cable to the daisy chain port and the other end to the microphone input in Your PC


lenroot77 said:


> Fyi
> The PS Plus Edition of Driveclub comes with 11 tracks, all based on one location, India. Ten cars will be yours to choose from, along with all the multiplayer modes.
> 
> Forza horizon 2 seems cool... But im not so interested in the "hipster" story line.
> ...


 
 I did not know that. Thanks!


----------



## Reckless95

wilflare said:


> seems like I'll go with the Mixamp in the end, just a few more questions
> 
> (1) BoomPro and Mixamp - Would I need to use the Y-Cable? Or will the Mixamp auto-detect the inline mic?
> 
> ...




I havnt tested this, but you'd need a dac with optical out. My impression is you wouldn't be able to.I run my Fiio E17 as an amp with my Mixamp. Just use my 3.5mm to 3.5mm 

If there isn't a a way to change the mics gain you can from the PS4 settings.

Just by looking at the mic, I think you don't need a splitter because it's plugging into your headphones.


----------



## Elf-1

I was looking (again) into these headphones on the first page and more specifically the AKG ones. After I searched on the internet for some prices I saw the AKG K612 Pro for around 130 euros. However, to play with it on the PS4 I also need an Mixamp and that thing is expensive, the 2013 pro version would cost me the same as the AKG headphones, 130 as well, that's insane in my opinion isn't it? Anyway to get the mixamp cheaper?


----------



## Reckless95

elf-1 said:


> I was looking (again) into these headphones on the first page and more specifically the AKG ones. After I searched on the internet for some prices I saw the AKG K612 Pro for around 130 euros. However, to play with it on the PS4 I also need an Mixamp and that thing is expensive, the 2013 pro version would cost me the same as the AKG headphones, 130 as well, that's insane in my opinion isn't it? Anyway to get the mixamp cheaper?


 

 I have the K712s and they're 62 ohms. Those are are almost double at 120. I would probably look at just a dac/amp combo before the Mixamp. I pair my Fiio E17 with my Mixamp for now. I used my K712s with just the mixamp and was still impressed, but after the E17 there still is no comparison for me. However I still find them hard to drive being 62 ohms.


----------



## Yethal

elf-1 said:


> I was looking (again) into these headphones on the first page and more specifically the AKG ones. After I searched on the internet for some prices I saw the AKG K612 Pro for around 130 euros. However, to play with it on the PS4 I also need an Mixamp and that thing is expensive, the 2013 pro version would cost me the same as the AKG headphones, 130 as well, that's insane in my opinion isn't it? Anyway to get the mixamp cheaper?


 
 Buy a used one or go for an alternative like Soundblaster Recon 3d


----------



## wilflare

reckless95 said:


> I havnt tested this, but you'd need a dac with optical out. My impression is you wouldn't be able to.I run my Fiio E17 as an amp with my Mixamp. Just use my 3.5mm to 3.5mm
> 
> If there isn't a a way to change the mics gain you can from the PS4 settings.
> 
> Just by looking at the mic, I think you don't need a splitter because it's plugging into your headphones.




thanks for the reply! hmm what do you mean by I need a dac with optical out? how would that work with the Mixamp?


----------



## Elf-1

reckless95 said:


> I have the K712s and they're 62 ohms. Those are are almost double at 120. I would probably look at just a dac/amp combo before the Mixamp. I pair my Fiio E17 with my Mixamp for now. I used my K712s with just the mixamp and was still impressed, but after the E17 there still is no comparison for me. However I still find them hard to drive being 62 ohms.


 
  
 What do you mean by "those are are almost double at 120"? And I need a Mixamp to get surround sound on my PS4 right, so just a dac/amp wouldn't do that for me. 
  


yethal said:


> Buy a used one or go for an alternative like Soundblaster Recon 3d


 
  
 From what I've read on the first page of this topic, I'm not that impressed with the Soundblaster, would prefer to find a cheaper model of the Mixamp Pro 2013, but they are hard to find in Europe.


----------



## Freegrazer

elf-1 said:


> From what I've read on the first page of this topic, I'm not that impressed with the Soundblaster, would prefer to find a cheaper model of the Mixamp Pro 2013, but they are hard to find in Europe.


 
  
 I hear ya buddy, I had the same trouble.  I came close to buying mine from China to save a few quid but I didn't fancy getting nailed with import duty to Republic Of Ireland, or maybe even getting stuck with a dodgy Mixamp!
  
 Also looked at second hand on ebay but still couldn't find the right price from the right seller in the right location.
  
 In the end I just bit the bullet and bought a brand new Mixamp Pro 2013 from http://www.limexb360.co.uk/
  
 Might cost a little more but at least you get store warranty and the peace of mind that comes with knowing your device is brand new, and that you can always return it if necessary.


----------



## Reckless95

wilflare said:


> thanks for the reply! hmm what do you mean by I need a dac with optical out? how would that work with the Mixamp?





elf-1 said:


> What do you mean by "those are are almost double at 120"? And I need a Mixamp to get surround sound on my PS4 right, so just a dac/amp wouldn't do that for me.
> 
> 
> From what I've read on the first page of this topic, I'm not that impressed with the Soundblaster, would prefer to find a cheaper model of the Mixamp Pro 2013, but they are hard to find in Europe.




120ohms, it's harder to drive then my 62 ohm K712s. The higher the ohms the more power you need.

You don't need the Dolby headphone either. Search up virtual barber shop on youtube, all modern games use it. I would save your money if you're thinking of graving those. They need more power IMO. The mixamp doesn't do mine justice and they're only 62 Ohms.


wilflare said:


> thanks for the reply! hmm what do you mean by I need a dac with optical out? how would that work with the Mixamp?




I don't think it will. Just ignore what I said. You can't stack DACs but I don't know if the mixamp is considered one or not. For Dolby headphone you need optical going into the mixamp.


----------



## Yethal

reckless95 said:


> 120ohms, it's harder to drive then my 62 ohm K712s. The higher the ohms the more power you need.
> 
> *You don't need the Dolby headphone either. Search up virtual barber shop on youtube, all modern games use it. I would save your money if you're thinking of graving those.* They need more power IMO. The mixamp doesn't do mine justice and they're only 62 Ohms.
> I don't think it will. Just ignore what I said. You can't stack DACs but I don't know if the mixamp is considered one or not. For Dolby headphone you need optical going into the mixamp.


 
 Dude, You are so wrong.


----------



## Reckless95

yethal said:


> Dude, You are so wrong.




Call me insane, I enjoy BF4 set on Headphone stereo. I have my opinion. I find with Dolby headphone the bass gets lost and it still isn't as great if you put the preset to media or whatever they call it.


----------



## Yethal

reckless95 said:


> Call me insane, I enjoy BF4 set on Headphone stereo. I have my opinion. I find with Dolby headphone the bass gets lost and it still isn't as great if you put the preset to media or whatever they call it.


 
 That was not what I meant. The guy was referring to virtual barbershop which is a recording made using a dummy mic (a dummy head with microphones inside the ear drums which record sound exactly the way human head would) and that recording has nothing to do with technology used in video games. 
  
 Also, the time when games did output binaural stereo (stereo with positional cues in them) natively is long gone. That's why we cheat by using devices that generate binaural stereo out of 5.1 signal which all games support.


----------



## Elf-1

I don't really get it anymore. You guys are talking about the ohm and the higher the ohms the more power you need. And the power comes from the Mixamp right? So less ohm would be better to be compatible with PS4 and MIxamp Pro? The AKG 612 Pro has 120 ohms while the AKG 701 has 62 ohms.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> I don't really get it anymore. You guys are talking about the ohm and the higher the ohms the more power you need. And the power comes from the Mixamp right? So less ohm would be better to be compatible with PS4 and MIxamp Pro? The AKG 612 Pro has 120 ohms while the AKG 701 has 62 ohms.


 
 I'm sure Evshrug will come in here and rip you all a new one for butchering the sound science so much.  I'll give you the tl;dr version:
  
 1 - Higher Ohms, aka resistance, usually means you need more power to get the same volume level.  Not always tho.
 2 - Headphones like the AKG are harder to drive than they look like on paper because of sciency things.
 3 - The mixamp will drive any of the mentioned AKGs to adequate levels if you're not chatting.  If you are chatting, it's personal preference whether you think it's loud enough.  For me with my Q701, it's just loud enough.
 4 - While the volume levels will be fine, you can get more sound quality by properly amping the AKG.  They don't sound bad without an amp, but they sound much better with one.
 4b - If you absolutely positively will never buy an additional amp, there are better headphones than the AKG.  Here's a diagram from best to worst:
  
 AKG (with amp) > Some other headphones > AKG (without amp) > most other headphones


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I don't think you're using the work "hipster" correctly.  Hipster don't drive supercars.  Hipsters will drive bicycles with one gear because it's hip to have something ****ty.



I remember getting and beating Doom on my TI-83+ graphing calculator during highschool. It was definitely not made by ID software, had blank walls and once an enemy saw you it could shoot you with 100% chance to hit you, even with several walls in the way and at the end of a level. I think the creator thought people would give up and quit playing, because the levels got the pretty basic by level 3, and there were only like 5 levels in total, an incomplete and buggy game (crashed a lot). Somehow I got addicted to trying to beat it anyway.





stillhart said:


> I'm sure Evshrug will come in here and rip you all a new one for butchering the sound science so much.
> 
> ...
> AKG (with amp) > Some other headphones > AKG (without amp) > most other headphones




I don't... I can't... There's just so much! basically, I guess I'll just say I use my K612 with my Turtle Beach DSS all the time, more Ohms can be a good thing, and don't just except things, even what I say, without just researching some more. I have to turn the volume dial up a little more with my K612, but it's better at dampening background electronic noise from a cheap/poor amp, and it sounds more dynamic at quieter volumes than my old AD700 (32 ohms) did if I turned the volume to sound as quiet.

Somebody earlier said that you could use a DAC with a Mixamp (which also is a DAC), and my mind blue a fuse and I shut down for awhile. BTW you can only do the Digital-To-Analogue-Conversion (DAC) process once, once audio is analogue there isn't any digital left to convert unless (and here's where my brain shorted out) you buy an additional Analog to Digital Converter and put the audio through quality-lossy conversions a total of three times... It's kinda like eating food then trying to turn the poop back into food that tastes better than the original food.

My suggestion: the K612 is an AMAZING value performing way better than it should for the cost, if you're on Playstation just go on EBay and buy a $140-$160 K612, first-gen $30 DSS, and a $30 USB desktop mic, THERE's a great setup that has amazing detail, soundstage, and balance between bass/mids/highs. You can always buy an amp later and hear how it'll make you swear off of wireless headphones and consumer headphones in general like Bose, Soul Republic, Turtle Beach, or the (much improved) Beats headphones.


----------



## wilflare

somehow after reading that, I felt like I should have tried harder and went eBay, etc to get the DSS or DSS2 instead of just settling for the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013.
  
 btw, when using an external AMP With the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013, is there any way to avoid double amping?


----------



## Reckless95

I'm getting kind of curious. If I ran optical in on a sound card from my PS4 lets say. Would I be able to use SBX for instance or does it not allow that through optical?


----------



## wilflare

reckless95 said:


> I'm getting kind of curious. If I ran optical in on a sound card from my PS4 lets say. Would I be able to use SBX for instance or does it not allow that through optical?




from what I understand SBZ? only accepts Stereo on Optical IN. it doesn't work with DD5.1 and it doesn't allow pass through either (so that your software can do the decoding?) 

this was what I understood from my own research and the replies here.


----------



## Reckless95

wilflare said:


> from what I understand SBZ? only accepts Stereo on Optical IN. it doesn't work with DD5.1 and it doesn't allow pass through either (so that your software can do the decoding?)
> 
> this was what I understood from my own research and the replies here.




Maybe I'm understanding this wrong.

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=121466


----------



## Evshrug

wilflare said:


> somehow after reading that, I felt like I should have tried harder and went eBay, etc to get the DSS or DSS2 instead of just settling for the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013.
> 
> btw, when using an external AMP With the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013, is there any way to avoid double amping?



The amp inside the Mixamp will always affect the output/sound quality, but double amping can be a benefit and improve the dynamics of the sound.

If it helps you feel better, I have both a wireless mixamp and a DSS. Used to have a Recon3D USB too. Both the DSS and Recon3D USB have far less noisy amps, and it's surprising how loud the DSS can get.





reckless95 said:


> Maybe I'm understanding this wrong.
> 
> http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=121466



Well, not to sound like a d**k, but you're half right. That article is about surround output... Not surround input to the card from the PS4.


----------



## wilflare

evshrug said:


> The amp inside the Mixamp will always affect the output/sound quality, but double amping can be a benefit and improve the dynamics of the sound.
> 
> If it helps you feel better, I have both a wireless mixamp and a DSS. Used to have a Recon3D USB too. Both the DSS and Recon3D USB have far less noisy amps, and it's surprising how loud the DSS can get.
> Well, not to sound like a d**k, but you're half right. That article is about surround output... Not surround input to the card from the PS4.




thanks. so in the end you kept the Mixamp over the other options, cause it's better right? I spent quite sometime reading on this but the Mixamp seemed like the simplest solution with the best ease of use (mixer controls etc). 

hmm. yea on Amp, I'm actually thinking of getting a Schiit Magni (and maybe the Modi Optical for PC use as well to make it the Stack) so I don't have to switch my headphones between my PC and PS4. can't decide though. 

on that creative link, how does that work? it's for me to plug my Sound card via RCA/line out to an Amp. to avoid the amp. on my Sound card right?


----------



## Ufasas

why akg 550 isn't on the list, they are really good in gaming


----------



## Reckless95

ufasas said:


> why akg 550 isn't on the list, they are really good in gaming




The 550s are closed back. Open can produce a better sound stage, meaning better positional audio


----------



## conquerator2

You could also get a mildly used K612 for around 120$ shipped... 'Wink' 'Wink' 'Poke' 'Poke'


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> thanks. so in the end you kept the Mixamp over the other options, cause it's better right? I spent quite sometime reading on this but the Mixamp seemed like the simplest solution with the best ease of use (mixer controls etc).




Do more research. This has been addressed many times. Each has its own pros and cons.


----------



## Ufasas

hm, some reviews show k550 are with surprisingly a very big soundstage anyway, and ppl ditching 701 for k550, weird? neverminding the closed type :V


----------



## Stillhart

ufasas said:


> hm, some reviews show k550 are with surprisingly a very big soundstage anyway, and ppl ditching 701 for k550, weird? neverminding the closed type :V


 
 I looked into the K550 for a little while when I was looking for a closed can for work.  Nothing I read about the 550 or 551, or later the K545 (which is, according to everything I've read, better than the 550/551) made me think there was any reason to ditch the 701 for it.


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> Do more research. This has been addressed many times. Each has its own pros and cons.


 
  
 guess I got alot more to look into now :/
 now to find a way to reduce that hiss/noise - read that separating that USB cable into power and data lines actually help?


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> guess I got alot more to look into now :/
> now to find a way to reduce that hiss/noise - read that separating that USB cable into power and data lines actually help?


 
 It does but not with these devices. The hiss comes from the device itself and not from the pc/console. Separating usb cable won't help


----------



## Evshrug

wilflare said:


> thanks. so in the end you kept the Mixamp over the other options, cause it's better right?
> 
> ...




No.
I only got the wireless Mixamp 5.8 in the first place because it seemed like the best option for *wireless* surround, but I never use it and it's sat disconnected in the living room for months. I hate plugging my controller into a thing on my hip, managing batteries, and it has the "dirtiest" sound quality of all the devices I've tried. The Recon3D had the least clutter and a cleaner sound (and the surround was more realistic and versatile for me), and more versatile, I only sold it because I wanted my friend to have a good solution and I already had an Omni to use on PC.

An Astro Mixamp isn't bad, for many people it's their favorite, but it's not a hi-Fi device and not my favorite.


----------



## jaysins

Do you have to use the mixamp cable for the microphone to work through the xbox one? I bought a generic cable and 2.5mm adapter and I cannot chat when plugged into the mixamp.


----------



## Stillhart

jaysins said:


> Do you have to use the mixamp cable for the microphone to work through the xbox one? I bought a generic cable and 2.5mm adapter and I cannot chat when plugged into the mixamp.


 
  
 Headphone+Mic into Y-adapter into Mixamp
 2.5mm Chat cable from mixamp to Xbone controller (with the chat adapter).


----------



## wilflare

evshrug said:


> No.
> I only got the wireless Mixamp 5.8 in the first place because it seemed like the best option for *wireless* surround, but I never use it and it's sat disconnected in the living room for months. I hate plugging my controller into a thing on my hip, managing batteries, and it has the "dirtiest" sound quality of all the devices I've tried. The Recon3D had the least clutter and a cleaner sound (and the surround was more realistic and versatile for me), and more versatile, I only sold it because I wanted my friend to have a good solution and I already had an Omni to use on PC.
> 
> An Astro Mixamp isn't bad, for many people it's their favorite, but it's not a hi-Fi device and not my favorite.


 
  
 ah. i see. okay I recall your positive words on the Recon3D a few pages that. but oh well, guess I have to put that aside for now.
  
 and yea :/ need a console solution. 


yethal said:


> It does but not with these devices. The hiss comes from the device itself and not from the pc/console. Separating usb cable won't help


 
 hmm oh well. really hope the hiss won't annoy me that much then


----------



## Evshrug

wilflare said:


> ah. i see. okay I recall your positive words on the Recon3D a few pages that. but oh well, guess I have to put that aside for now.
> 
> and yea :/ need a console solution.
> hmm oh well. really hope the hiss won't annoy me that much then




This thread is (usually) focused on console solutions.

Just so everybody else knows, welfare has an Asus STX soundcard that he'll be judging anything else against.

You'll definitely notice the hiss in a Mixamp compared to that, the Zx won't sound hissy but the ACM will degrade the sound compared to the Z or just plugging the headphones straight into the soundcard's jack, and currently no console surround processor can sound as clear as the STX soundcard you have for your PC... A high-end vintage Marantz might sound as good or better, but I've never read anyone compare those receivers SQ to a receiver.


----------



## wilflare

evshrug said:


> This thread is (usually) focused on console solutions.
> 
> Just so everybody else knows, welfare has an Asus STX soundcard that he'll be judging anything else against.
> 
> You'll definitely notice the hiss in a Mixamp compared to that, the Zx won't sound hissy but the ACM will degrade the sound compared to the Z or just plugging the headphones straight into the soundcard's jack, and currently no console surround processor can sound as clear as the STX soundcard you have for your PC... A high-end vintage Marantz might sound as good or better, but I've never read anyone compare those receivers SQ to a receiver.




I think you misunderstood me man. I said I owned a STX before I switched over to my Audinst HUD-MX1. Which means I no longer have it (Sorry if my grammar created any confusion). I sold the STX off then because I used a Speaker set-up mainly for my PC and just TV out for my PS3.

But having used the Sony Wireless PULSE Elite and getting the PS4, I felt like I wanted to get something better. And thinking back on my STX, I am hoping to get something as good, if not better (I have this strange notion that if I'm upgrading, it should be a vertical one and not a horizontal one). 

It would be great if my new set up of
Philips Fidelio X1 + Soundblaster ZX beat the AE AegoM + Audinst Hud-mx1 in terms of SQ (and hopefully betters or matches the STX SQ) 

and for console I sure hope that 
Philips Fidelio X1 + BoomPro + Mixamp beat the Sony Wireless Pulse Elite in SQ and Surround effect

and yes I do hope that I can integrate both PC and PS4 so I thought have to plug my headphones in and out and have cables running all over (and constantly reach out to the rear jacks on my PC)


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Anyone hear used the he-560 or 400i for gaming yet?


----------



## PixelSkills

I currently have the Sennheiser g4me one headset and the Astro Mixamp just does not have the power to even power a 50 OHM headset such as the g4me One. I have to max out the volume on the amp and headset itself, the volume is fine if I can turn the mix all the way to game volume and no voice. The problem is when I am in a party I have to turn the mixamp volume to the voice side and the game sound is so low its unsatisfying.
  
 My question is, anyone with knowledge of the Mixamp do you know what headsets/headphones the Astro Mixamp can power easily. I know I can get a Amp to give the G4me one more volume the problem is I have already spent over $300 for this setup and really do not want to spend another $100 or so to get an AMP.


----------



## Yethal

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser g4me one headset and the Astro Mixamp just does not have the power to even power a 50 OHM headset such as the g4me One. I have to max out the volume on the amp and headset itself, the volume is fine if I can turn the mix all the way to game volume and no voice. The problem is when I am in a party I have to turn the mixamp volume to the voice side and the game sound is so low its unsatisfying.
> 
> My question is, anyone with knowledge of the Mixamp do you know what headsets/headphones the Astro Mixamp can power easily. I know I can get a Amp to give the G4me one more volume the problem is I have already spent over $300 for this setup and really do not want to spend another $100 or so to get an AMP.


 
 Spending 100$ on an amp to go with this setup seems to be better investment than spending whatever amount of cash for headphones better than g4me one


----------



## conquerator2

doctacosmos said:


> Anyone hear used the he-560 or 400i for gaming yet?




I have both on hand currently. The 560 is pretty great, the 400i is good.
What it lags in soubdstage it makes up in imaging imo, especially the 560, which has a bugger and more spacious soundstage. 

560 - 8.5/10 competitive, 8.5/10 fun + immersion 
400i - 7.5/10 competitive 7.5/10 fun + immersion


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would've thought the Fun scores to have flipped for the 400i and 560. At least for my taste, it would seem the 560's neutrality is a detriment to fun compared to the warmer sound of the 400i.

Mere conjecture, however.


----------



## imac2much

I have the 400i and use it for both gaming and music.  While I only had the chance to test out the 560 with music at a Hifiman dealer, I definitely did find the soundstage more spacious, which to me is the 400i's only weakness.  I don't really think the bass is lacking in the 400i (I listen to a lot of cello music where the bass extends quite low), but I think I prefer tight bass with impact over "loud" bass.  I had tried the 400 before and I honestly don't think the 400i lags behind in bass that much.  While I enjoyed the 560 for music, I do think its more clinical presentation would not be as immersive as the 400i's.


----------



## Elf-1

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser g4me one headset and the Astro Mixamp just does not have the power to even power a 50 OHM headset such as the g4me One. I have to max out the volume on the amp and headset itself, the volume is fine if I can turn the mix all the way to game volume and no voice. The problem is when I am in a party I have to turn the mixamp volume to the voice side and the game sound is so low its unsatisfying.
> 
> My question is, anyone with knowledge of the Mixamp do you know what headsets/headphones the Astro Mixamp can power easily. I know I can get a Amp to give the G4me one more volume the problem is I have already spent over $300 for this setup and really do not want to spend another $100 or so to get an AMP.


 
  


yethal said:


> Spending 100$ on an amp to go with this setup seems to be better investment than spending whatever amount of cash for headphones better than g4me one


 
  
 That's weird though, the Mixamp doesn't have the power for the 50 ohm, while their own A40's have 50 ohms impedance right? And if this is true and you're not willing to buy an extra amp in addition to the Mixamp, will the AKG K701 be a better option over the 612 Pro because the K701 has less ohm (62 instead of 120) ?


----------



## PixelSkills

Im a newbie head fier but from what I have read is low ohms does not always mean they will be easier to power, it depends on alot more then just that. What I dont know! Lol


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> That's weird though, the Mixamp doesn't have the power for the 50 ohm, while their own A40's have 50 ohms impedance right? And if this is true and you're not willing to buy an extra amp in addition to the Mixamp, will the AKG K701 be a better option over the 612 Pro because the K701 has less ohm (62 instead of 120) ?


 
  
  


pixelskills said:


> Im a newbie head fier but from what I have read is low ohms does not always mean they will be easier to power, it depends on alot more then just that. What I dont know! Lol


 
  
 That's correct, resistance is just thing that can make a headphone hard to drive.  There are other factors as well, which is why AKG's are typically hard to drive despite having a low resistance rating.  
  
 Evs has tried to educate people on this many times, but it doesn't ever seem to stick.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HE4 being one notable example. Its, what, 45ohm? 45 of the hardest ohms you'll ever experience.


----------



## PixelSkills

mad lust envy said:


> HE4 being one notable example. Its, what, 45ohm? 45 of the hardest ohms you'll ever experience.




Do you know anything about the Topping NX1 port amp? Seems to be a great amp for the price. I just purchased it tl help my mixamp, hoping it will do the job at $41.99. I just did not want to spend over 100 for a desktop amp like the e9k if I dont have to. Im already poor from the mixamp and headset lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never heard of it, sadly.


----------



## Freegrazer

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser g4me one headset and the Astro Mixamp just does not have the power to even power a 50 OHM headset such as the g4me One. I have to max out the volume on the amp and headset itself, the volume is fine if I can turn the mix all the way to game volume and no voice. The problem is when I am in a party I have to turn the mixamp volume to the voice side and the game sound is so low its unsatisfying.
> 
> My question is, anyone with knowledge of the Mixamp do you know what headsets/headphones the Astro Mixamp can power easily. I know I can get a Amp to give the G4me one more volume the problem is I have already spent over $300 for this setup and really do not want to spend another $100 or so to get an AMP.


 
  
 I got myself a Mixamp Pro 2013 edition not 3 weeks ago, and after much thought I bought some AKG K702's to go along with the Mixamp.  The soundstage on K702's is quite awesome, and I'll admit that at first I thought the bass was ever so slightly lacking I grew accustomed to the new sound very quickly and put my inital impression of the lacking bass down to having come from using my Sennheiser HD650's for so long. 
  
 The K702's are easily driven by the Mixamp, and although these cans would certainly benefit from an amp there's just no need for one and they sound fantastic with only the Mixamp.  The surround effect produced by the Mixamp is superb but of course the K702's get the most out of this due to the big soundstage.  Playing Infamous and Watch Dogs on my PS4 was amazing with this pairing.
  
 As far as any hiss/buzzing from the mixamp, yes I did encounter this issue out of the box and it was a concern for me.  However a quick rearranging of cable placement, for example running the USB cable well away from any other devices or other cables, and also turning the Game/Voice dial to 9 o clock and also bringing the volume dial down to 3 o clock almost completely eliminated the hissing noise.  And then when you actually put on a game you can't hear any hissing whatsoever, even if you turn the volume to 100% and turn the Game/Voice dial all the way to Game.
  
  
  
 Hope this helps!


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I would've thought the Fun scores to have flipped for the 400i and 560. At least for my taste, it would seem the 560's neutrality is a detriment to fun compared to the warmer sound of the 400i.
> 
> Mere conjecture, however.




Speaking bass quantity purely, yes.
For me though a combination of fun and immersion means how fun but also tangible and believable a headphone sounds, while competitive is just soundstage and accuracy alone.
The bass for instance, hits slightly harder on the 400i but it goes deeper on the 560, which about evens it up fun wise, that's on my SA31SE on Warm 0 with either DH or SBX. The 560 does pull ahead in immersion where everything sounds more believable and balanced and feels more enveloping on the 560 thanks to a bigger soundstage and better timbre.
Competitive wise, the 560 again pulls ahead.
I guess it depends on what you take for what and what you value... I know I preferred the 560 over the 400i by a noticeable margin.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> HE4 being one notable example. Its, what, 45ohm? *45 of the hardest ohms you'll ever experience.*


 
 One day someone will make porn about audiophiles and this will be the tagline.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Hi guys,
 if you dont care about Money(ok, max 600$), what are the best competitive shooter (Call of Duty headphones)?
  
 I know, many guys have the same question and believe me, I have read thousands of reviews, Posts, threads and so on and I am still not sure about it.
  
 ATH AD700x, ATH AD900x, AKG K702, Q701 or Beyer T90? Yes, most of them need Amps. Thats not the Problem, but which one is the best and which one is second and so on.
 If an AKG is slight better for gaming, than please tell it.
  
 I am fascinated by this Topic, but I can`t decide which one.
  
 Someone told me, that I have to look at the first page and there ist a list 1-10... and I never found it, just an Index, but that is no Rating.
  
 I know, here are a lot of Pros with a lot experience.... please help me. 
  
  
 And a second question:
 I own a Asus Phoebus, a Creative Z and the Turtle Beach XP Seven ACU.
 Would you recommand an Asus Essence STX 2 or a Creative ZXR, because it would increase my competitive Sound, or would be the difference that small, that I wouldn`t mention it?!
  
 Thanky for your help!!!


----------



## Yethal

bigbadwulf said:


> Hi guys,
> if you dont care about Money(ok, max 600$), what are the best competitive shooter (Call of Duty headphones)?
> 
> I know, many guys have the same question and believe me, I have read thousands of reviews, Posts, threads and so on and I am still not sure about it.
> ...


 
 The best is very subjective term if You have an audio shop neraby just go there and have a listen.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Hi Yethal,
 thats my Problem, I have no shop here, that is close enough. Especially ATH is very hard to find in central europe. (and very expensive compared to the States or Japan).


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> Hi guys,
> if you dont care about Money(ok, max 600$), what are the best competitive shooter (Call of Duty headphones)?
> 
> I know, many guys have the same question and believe me, I have read thousands of reviews, Posts, threads and so on and I am still not sure about it.
> ...


 
  
 If there's one thing I've learned from my personal headphone journey, it's that when people have similar headphones ranked close to the same, it's NOT worth agonizing over.  Just pick one and enjoy.
  
 Based on my experience (which doesn't include most of the headphones on your list), I'd say get the Q701+Matrix M-Stage or A-GD NFB-15 and keep the SBZ.  
  
 EDIT - BTW, you already have a few very highly rated cans on your list.  The HD598 is supposed to be fantastic for competitive gaming.  I'm not sure how much improvement you'll see by side-grading.


----------



## Reckless95

freegrazer said:


> I got myself a Mixamp Pro 2013 edition not 3 weeks ago, and after much thought I bought some AKG K702's to go along with the Mixamp.  The soundstage on K702's is quite awesome, and I'll admit that at first I thought the bass was ever so slightly lacking I grew accustomed to the new sound very quickly and put my inital impression of the lacking bass down to having come from using my Sennheiser HD650's for so long.
> 
> The K702's are easily driven by the Mixamp, and although these cans would certainly benefit from an amp there's just no need for one and they sound fantastic with only the Mixamp.  The surround effect produced by the Mixamp is superb but of course the K702's get the most out of this due to the big soundstage.  Playing Infamous and Watch Dogs on my PS4 was amazing with this pairing.
> 
> ...




The mixer at the bottom of the mixamp doesn't do anything if it isn't plugged into your PS4 for example. So really all you're doing is lowering the volume.



bigbadwulf said:


> Hi guys,
> if you dont care about Money(ok, max 600$), what are the best competitive shooter (Call of Duty headphones)?
> 
> I know, many guys have the same question and believe me, I have read thousands of reviews, Posts, threads and so on and I am still not sure about it.
> ...




I enjoy my K712 Pros I bought recently. I would say go for the K702. I just got my ZxR yesturday and am very pleased that I got it instead of using the mixamp. I just plug my PS4 to the optical in and set the optical to listening through the 1/4". As for upgrading your Z, I wouldn't beable to tell you. Although even with the gain set to high it doesn't power my K712 pros as loud as my Fiio E17. Isn't the Asus card you have fairly good anyways?


----------



## BigBadWulf

Thank you for your answers.
  
 Yes, the 598 is good, but... I know guys who can hear footsteps better and I tried a lot of EQ Settings. But you are right, at the moment I prefer them in gaming. My beyer have a broken cable and I have to send them to warranty repair. So you can see, that I am not that confident. I haven`t found my favourite yet.
  
 Stillhart, the amps you told me, are not available in the EU. Would a Fiio E09K be enough for AKGs?
  
 @Reckless,
 yes the Asus is good, but in my opinion the Dolby Theatre fails against Dolby Headphone. I could test a friends Essence STX and Dolby headphone worked better for me with the BD 990Pro 250, somehow the Theatre 4 Headphone surround... sucks 
 The Asus amp seems to be very strong, middle settings are strong enough for the 990 250 Ohms. So it is annoying, that they have no Dolby Headphone with it. It is just Marketing, it would canibalize the Essence, because the sound quality is very close to it.
  
 I think I will order ATH 700 and an AKG next month. The loser will go back. I don`t like this method, because the shop will get a B-Stock HP, but I think I have to do it.
 Which AKG? Q 701 or K702? The Quincy has two cables and makes  a little bit more fun, but the Soundstage is closer. The 702 has no bumps on the headband. (no K701, because of the fixed cable) and the soundstage is more distant. Which soundstage is better in COD? At the Moment I like the Q more. The bumps I gonna kill 
 Later I could buy the gel pads of the 712 to get a Little bit more fun (for music).


----------



## Evshrug

K712 has memory foam, not gel pads.

The K702 (no bumps) and Q701 are very very close since they updated the K702 to sound much like the Q. The Audio GD NFB-15 is sold from China direct, so you jut have to search Google for Audio GD and order it that way if you want it (or browse Head-Fi's used gear forum).

Opinion time: AD700 was for me excellent with surround and picking up tactical cues, that didn't change/improve when I went to my Q701 (using both with a lowly FiiO E5 amp). However, the Q701 had better bass and integration of all the sound frequencies, and some other aspect of it's character that made music and all audio more engaging and immersive, so though it didn't make me a "better gamer" from better info I chose to keep the AKG because it was more enjoyable.


----------



## Stillhart

It's been mentioned before (and recently) that different people hear things differently.  Evs and I use almost the same setup and he can hear chests in Destiny and I can't.  It may not be your headphones, it may be you.  
  
 I'm just saying this so you set your expectations realistically.  And yes, I've heard the E09k works fine with the AKG's.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> It's been mentioned before (and recently) that different people hear things differently.  Evs and I use almost the same setup and he can hear chests in Destiny and I can't.  It may not be your headphones, it may be you.
> 
> I'm just saying this so you set your expectations realistically.  And yes, I've heard the E09k works fine with the AKG's.


 
  
 Evs may also listen at ear-splitting levels, who can say how loud his setup is besides him?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> It's been mentioned before (and recently) that different people hear things differently.  Evs and I use almost the same setup and he can hear chests in Destiny and I can't.  It may not be your headphones, it may be you.
> 
> I'm just saying this so you set your expectations realistically.  And yes, I've heard the E09k works fine with the AKG's.




Da hell is wrong with your ears man!? 

The chests are pretty easy to hear... even with my $20 Sportapros.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Da hell is wrong with your ears man!?


 
  
 Many many rock concerts...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Speaking of, Lacuna Coil is coming here Oct 19, and I reeeeally wanna go.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Evs may also listen at ear-splitting levels, who can say how loud his setup is besides him?



Are you able to hear the game through my mic?!?


----------



## l00ease

tip/trick that I came across with for us mixamp users , it might not make much of a difference but worth the try.
 Grab a female 2.5 mm to 3.5 mm adapter and use the xbox chat cable along with the ones we’re currently using, this will bypass the usb chat connection to the ps4 and instead use the new one, this will allow to max out the volume level for headphones in the ps4’s device setting. With usb only, if one raises the volume in this setting as soon as you exit out of it, it goes back to default level. It will also help with game/chat balancing. 
 Hope this helps, it has helped me. I find myself NOT turning the game/chat dial too much to the chat side and a little more volume on my HP. What is one more cable to the ones we’re already running? lol
 ps: Plug everything as you would now then the last thing you’d want to do is connect the xbox chat cable, otherwise it won’t bypass the usb connection.


----------



## Reckless95

bigbadwulf said:


> Thank you for your answers.
> 
> Yes, the 598 is good, but... I know guys who can hear footsteps better and I tried a lot of EQ Settings. But you are right, at the moment I prefer them in gaming. My beyer have a broken cable and I have to send them to warranty repair. So you can see, that I am not that confident. I haven`t found my favourite yet.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The K702 were rated 10/10. Q701 were rated 9.5/10. Personally, if you're looking for sound whoring probably go with the K702. If you're only looking for competitive I wouldn't go for the K712. I find them immersive but still have a great sound stage to me. I haven't heard the others to compare though.


----------



## PixelSkills

Everyone should really check out the Sennheiser g4me one, the thing has an incredible soundstage, I have not tested any akg headsets but I must say I really do think the soundstage is just as good as the ad700 with more punch in the bass. Its by far the most realistic sounding headset/headphone I have heard. The best part is it has a mic built in and its an amazing one at that. I would love for some true audiophiles to review these.


----------



## Reckless95

pixelskills said:


> Everyone should really check out the Sennheiser g4me one, the thing has an incredible soundstage, I have not tested any akg headsets but I must say I really do think the soundstage is just as good as the ad700 with more punch in the bass. Its by far the most realistic sounding headset/headphone I have heard. The best part is it has a mic built in and its an amazing one at that. I would love for some true audiophiles to review these.


 
  
 For me, I don't want a mic that's stuck on a headphone that I paid good money for. There's a mod mic for those that want a detachable mic or a USB one. As I look for quality first


----------



## Yethal

pixelskills said:


> Everyone should really check out the Sennheiser g4me one, the thing has an incredible soundstage, I have not tested any akg headsets but I must say I really do think the soundstage is just as good as the ad700 with more punch in the bass. Its by far the most realistic sounding headset/headphone I have heard. The best part is it has a mic built in and its an amazing one at that. I would love for some true audiophiles to review these.


 
 G4me one is just rebranded pc360 which is reviewed here/


----------



## martin vegas

pixelskills said:


> Everyone should really check out the Sennheiser g4me one, the thing has an incredible soundstage, I have not tested any akg headsets but I must say I really do think the soundstage is just as good as the ad700 with more punch in the bass. Its by far the most realistic sounding headset/headphone I have heard. The best part is it has a mic built in and its an amazing one at that. I would love for some true audiophiles to review these.


 

 What do you mean by true audiophiles?


----------



## PixelSkills

martin vegas said:


> What do you mean by true audiophiles?




I mean im a newbie head fi, i do not have alot of experience with audio. A true audiophile unlike me.


----------



## martin vegas

pixelskills said:


> I mean im a newbie head fi, i do not have alot of experience with audio. A true audiophile unlike me.


 

 You could have got the pc363d that comes with a dolby headphone 7.1 dongle instead of buying the headset and the mixamp together!


----------



## rudyae86

but thats only for PC though....
  
  
 Anyways, I have a question, the Sennheiser PC350SE headset, what are some peoples impression about these? also, what headphone is it it based on?
  
 I purchased it for no reason lol it was 89.99 and this is probably my second Sennheiser product I have purchased but I really just wanted to own a Sennheiser and I know I could have gotten something better or a headphone....but eh
  
 I know its a closed back, I have been using it for the past 4 hours i think and obviously lacks bass but whenever i press the earcups inwards towards my head, the bass picks up. Now, I have read the mod for the regular PC350 which increases the low's but I dont think I will do that since I kind of like the sound signature this headset has for FPS gaming. Soundstage sounds reduce to me, i want to say it feels like im in a small to medium size room (sorry, im still a noob at this and cant describe or know what words to use correctly to describe something). Im also using the Recon3D USB for PS3 and PC.
 Besides owning this headset (which i got this evening in the mail) I also own the X1(got it for 150 in Jan hehe), MA900, A900X, M50, Koss KSC75.
  
 Now I have used the M50, X1, MA900 and KSC75 for gaming and from out of all of them, the X1 does it for me. Soundstage is wide, bass is strong and present (especially in BF4), its a warm headphone thats for sure but I can still distinguish the different sounds going on in a game, probobly the only bad thing of the X1 is that sometimes the bass does drone out other sounds around you but i guess if you are in front of all the explosions and actions, its unavoidable. But immersion is awesome and I still feel like the X1 still gives you some competitive edge, if not more than enough. Sound isn't going to always save you from someone killing you lol. MA900 I have not used it much because to me, it sounds very dull, huge sound stage but the sound sig wasnt for me. Mids are awesome though and bass is present when you need it, especially when LMGs like the 240B, drivers just start thumping your ears and its cool....but overall, I dont think its on par with the X1, especially for the price i got it for lol.
  
 M50, well, I guess you can read MLEs review, thats how it sounds to me but i use that more for music. The KSC is surprisingly a cool little thing but again, I have not used it much to actually give you all the details but all I can say it sounds better than any turtle beach i have tried out there, which i will never go back to that brand again.
  
 Now I know, you may be like "So what are you trying to say?"
 Well first, Just wanted to give my own personal input
 Second, from that input on what I have heard with these headphones, where would the PC350SE fall in? This is probobly a better headphone compared to the M50 in terms of FPS gaming, at least for me.
 I didnt mention the A900X because....well, I have not even opened them yet and reason why is because of the wing system, I have read so many mix things about it that Im concerned about it and Ill probobly sell them just for that matter. Although Im told the A900X are better than the M50 with a more controlled Bass and an extended soundstage, close to A900X soundstage.
  
 Honestly, the PC350SE for me so far, is a great Closed Back Headset, especially if you dont want to hear much of the outside and the mic that it has is really good.
  
 Comparing to the A40s though, I want to say the A40s have more immersion compared to the PC350SE and soundstage may be on par but Clarity and distinguishing sounds may be a win for the PC350SE, thats just me and I really have not used my friends A40s that much so YMMV....well YMMV for all the headphones Im talking about right now.
  
 So please do share your thoughts on this PC350SE. Seems like it has been forgotten, sort off, and many of you arent fans of headsets and prefer headphones, which I do as well....
  
 But I like this headset, I think I can use this for late night runs when my roomate is sleeping and Im playing and the mic will also not pick up its snoring lol. Mic is pretty good honestly and for 89.99, i think it was a bargain i got it for that much.
  
 I yet have to try the PC360/G4ME ONE....which I might end up buying later on, when I have more funds lol.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I had to buy my buddies ah-d600 yesterday as the cables for my a40s took a dump. . It has an online mic and sometimes it works but it usually doesn't. . It works fine when plugged into a phone to make calls. . Any idea why it this is and of there's a fix for it?


----------



## Stillhart

doctacosmos said:


> I had to buy my buddies ah-d600 yesterday as the cables for my a40s took a dump. . It has an online mic and sometimes it works but it usually doesn't. . It works fine when plugged into a phone to make calls. . Any idea why it this is and of there's a fix for it?


 
 I had the D600 for a few days but I never tried using the phone cable, sorry.  As I recall it was a REALLY fun headphone.


----------



## BigBadWulf

@Cosmos
 AH-D600 are nice, but they took a while to burn in (since them I really believe in burn in). But yours are used, so you get the good Sound from the beginning! 
 I think, that the headphonejack of your device is not deep enough.
  
 @All 
 thank you for your answers. Finally I ordered the Q701, because it has more "talent" than just gaming and there are varying opinios about the soundstage and soundstagedetails compared to the K702.
 With these genes it will be interesting to try some mods.
 You can be sure, that I will post my results vs the 598/MA900 and 990 Pro and if the Phoebus or Creative Z are enough to power it. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas


----------



## inanimate

So I have decided to buy the Sennheiser HD598s for gaming with my PS4 and I cant figure out what all I will need for it to work with my PS4. I was looking at the Astro Mixamp but not really wanting to spend that much on it.. So if anyone has a good setup with the 598s please let me know. And i would like some kind of mic to use with them as well.


----------



## PixelSkills

inanimate said:


> So I have decided to buy the Sennheiser HD598s for gaming with my PS4 and I cant figure out what all I will need for it to work with my PS4. I was looking at the Astro Mixamp but not really wanting to spend that much on it.. So if anyone has a good setup with the 598s please let me know. And i would like some kind of mic to use with them as well.




Astro mixamp is the best option you have, but instead of the 598s get the sennheiser g4me one, its a better option because of the built in mic and sound quality is just as good. I had some issues with the mixamp not supplying enough volume but have figured it out and it sounds amazing!


----------



## inanimate

so i know ill have to get the mixamp but is there any difference in the soundstages? i havent heard anything at all about the g4mes..


----------



## PixelSkills

They are the same as the pc360 which is reviewed here. They are just as good as thr 598 with a tiny bit more bass


----------



## K.J.

Has it been confirmed, that the V-Moda Boom Mic isn't compatible with the Sennheiser Momentum?


----------



## PixelSkills

I beleive just like the hd598 the cable is 2.5mm going into the headphone, so if thats the case no it will not work without some sort of adapter


----------



## Yethal

pixelskills said:


> I beleive just like the hd598 the cable is 2.5mm going into the headphone, so if thats the case no it will not work without some sort of adapter


 
 If they're just like the 598 then the adapter would have to be custom made. This entire line of headphones uses 4 pole 2.5mm jack to separate left and right ground signal.


----------



## rudyae86

Does anyone know how the PC350 SE and G4ME Zero compare to any of the headphones in MLEs list?
  
 Better yet, how does it compare to the close headsets that he has tried, like the Astro A40's?
  
 I know Sound stage is reduced but I like how it still retains alot of clarity when used for games. I want to say that if you use the 350SE or G4ME Zero with a PC and using an Asus DG sound card, Dolby headphone would help in widen the soundstage, especially since you can adjust how far apart the speakers can be. But I wonder how the 350SE would work for consoles, well with the Astro Mix Amp.
  
 Any feedback would be appreciated.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Does anyone know how the PC350 SE and G4ME Zero compare to any of the headphones in MLEs list?
> 
> Better yet, how does it compare to the close headsets that he has tried, like the Astro A40's?
> 
> ...


 
 G4me zero are pretty much pc360 so see mle's review about that cans and You'll have pretty good idea about their SQ.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> G4me zero are pretty much pc360 so see mle's review about that cans and You'll have pretty good idea about their SQ.




Actually it's the G4ME One...Those are the same as the PC360...both open backs. I'm surprised he never reviewed the 350SE...I'm guessing because he mainly likes open back headphones or headsets.


----------



## Stillhart

k.j. said:


> Has it been confirmed, that the V-Moda Boom Mic isn't compatible with the Sennheiser Momentum?


 
 Yes, it's confirmed; I have both.  Senns use a proprietary connection.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Yes, it's confirmed; I have both.  Senns use a proprietary connection.


 
 Should we ask the akg v-moda boom pro adapter to make a Sennheiser adapter?


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Should we ask the akg v-moda boom pro adapter to make a Sennheiser adapter?


 
  
 The AKG adapter isn't proprietary, it's just non-standard.  Because of that, it's easy to make customer cables.  Senns aren't that friendly.  But you could always ask @Zombie_X ...


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> The AKG adapter isn't proprietary, it's just non-standard.  Because of that, it's easy to make customer cables.  Senns aren't that friendly.  But you could always ask @Zombie_X ...


 
 Aren't they using standard 4 pole 2.5mm? Like HD5X8 line?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Aren't they using standard 4 pole 2.5mm? Like HD5X8 line?


 
  
 They have a recessed socket and a locking mechanism that's proprietary to Sennheiser.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Should we ask the akg v-moda boom pro adapter to make a Sennheiser adapter?


what's this aka v moda boom pro "adapter" you are talking about? I'm interested...


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> what's this aka v moda boom pro "adapter" you are talking about? I'm interested...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


----------



## DarkEthereal

Hnnng I'm so confused!
  
 On recommendation of this thread, I bought the Creative Auvana Live headphones and used them for months, and they. were. EPIC!
 I hadn't owned anything really good before then, only the Porta pros and the PX-100 II headphones, so my oppinion of the CALs are probably skewed.
  
 However 2 weeks ago, I lost my Creative Aurvanas at university, because I'm a moron who puts £50 headphones down next to a public computer and doesn't them pick them up...
  
 I've spent the past 2 weeks using only my PX-100 IIs (with falling appart earpads), which are pure garbage in comparison the glory of my CALs. I can't hold on any longer. I have to buy new headphones or I will go mad. However I don't just want to get another pair of CALs. I want to go better.
  
 So here's the dilemma. I've got my Xonar DG soundcard with built in amp, and I don't want to have to buy another amp. I preferably want to buy headphones that are better at positional audio than the CALs, but I don't want to buy a pair of headphones that I find musically inferior to the CALs.
 I'm willing to try something that MAY be worse than the CALs, as long as it's got a nice easy return policy like amazon's.
  
 I don't want to spend more than £200, but really over £150 is really pushing it.
  
 The headphones that are appealing to me are:
 DT990s
 AKG Q701s
 AKG K701s
 AKG K612 Pros
  
  
 According to the numbers, the DT990 has better "fun" and "competative" than the CAL, but upon reading the review's description of the sound signature and other reviews, I feel sort of put off. I'm not sure I'm after bassy trebbly headphones with recessed mids, which is what people seem to say they are.
 Despite the fact that they only get an 8 on competitive, compared to the AKG K701's 10, Mad Lust Envy says they still sold  the K701s after he got them, which has me confused about the level of difference between an 8 and a 10.
  
 The AKG K701s 10 for competitive really excites me, especially when reading Mad Lust's words about how it felt to try them for the first time, but I'm not prepared to sacrifice so much when it comes to musical listening as the guide makes out that I will.
  
 AKG K612 Pros sound like a solid pair of headphones, but they take a big hit compared the CALs on the "Fun" side (which I using to guess how they'll do with musical listening), and the competitive side isn't talked about with the same enthusiasm as it is with the K701s or Q701s, so I feel like these would be a downgrade on the CALs.
  
 I'd totally buy the AKG Q701s from amazon to try if only they were a bit cheaper. They take a big hit on the fun side compared to the CALs, but they have a really high competative score and the description makes it sound like they are a lot closer to the K701s than the AKG K612 Pros are, but I wouldn't get them at the £200 price point.
 I can get a second hand pair for £150, but the issue is I can't get them with amazon's nice trusty 30 day returns policy, only a 14 day returns policy, so I'd prefer to have a bit more reassurance that'd enjoy them enough musically compared to the CAL, and that any compromise is made up for in the soundwhore side.
  
 And TBH I still sort of feel that even though I'm prepared to pay over 3 times the price of the CAL's for something better, it seems like there isn't anything clear cut better in that price range, so I might as well get the CAL's again, since they don't need an amp, and seem more portable and a heck of a lot less expensive 
  
 So what I'm asking is, due to the subjective nature of headphones and music, has anyone had the CALs, then bought any of those headphones, and still felt that they beat the CAL's musically, dispite Mad lust's rankings? Is there a good chance I won't feel that buying any of those headphones is a downgrade when I listen to them?
  
 Edit: whoops! that's a long post.
  
TLR
 Has anyone who owned a pair of CALs felt that the DT990s, AKG Q701s, AKG K701s or AKG K612 Pros were just about on par or an improvement over the CALs when it comes to music?


----------



## BigBadWulf

The DT990 Pro are far above the CAL. I own them and on Monday I can tell you a little bit more about the Q701.
 If your Soundcard can AMP the 990 PRO than take them. You can stop the heights with your equalizer, but I have them and never needed to decrease them. If your Soundcard has not enough power, than go for the Sennheiser HD 598 (or 558 and mod them to 598).
 The AKG need a strong amp (no matter it they have low ohms, they need a good amp). I wouldn`t say, that the soundwhoring of the 598 is better than the 990 Pro. I would recommend you the 990! With them you can enjoy music too. They make more fun.
 You will be happy. It is really a huge difference. The soundstage of open HP will give you another much better sound.


----------



## DarkEthereal

That's good to know.
  
 I kind of think the 1-10 scoring system being used here isn't very effective, especially when there's basically no scores under 3. It feels too compressed and I worry that good cheap headphones get extra points for being good relative to their price point.
  
 I've also been looking at the Fidelio X1. I was originally put off by it's non-replaceable ear cups, but now I'm thinking that isn't really a big deal. I could get them used from amazon with the 30 day returns policy for £160.
  
 The feedback I'm finding on whether the Xonar DG can power those headphones seems mixed. It's not recommended to go up to that number of ohms, and lots of people are saying it'd be a good idea to get an amp, but it seems like those with the DG say the DG works and it's still a jaw dropping experience.
 I really want to avoid spending extra money on a separate amp, I've got other computer parts to throw money at!
  
 I'd also be torn what to get. I know audiophiles often recommend external everything, but I've toyed with the idea of switching to a creative soundcard to try the CMSS-3D technology instead of Dolby headphone, but I get the feeling a creative card with the right built in amp would be expensive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PX100-II is awesome... 

not so much for gaming, but they are spectacular.


----------



## Stillhart

darkethereal said:


> snip
> 
> TLR
> Has anyone who owned a pair of CALs felt that the DT990s, AKG Q701s, AKG K701s or AKG K612 Pros were just about on par or an improvement over the CALs when it comes to music?


 
  
 The CAL's are closed and all the ones you suggested here are open.  If you're looking for another closed headphone, I'd recommend the SoundMAGIC HP100/150.  If you're looking for something open, those are all choices that are "fine" without an amp but better with one.  I think the K612 might be the easiest of those to drive.
  
 You might also consider the SoundMAGIC HP200 and the X1.  The X1 is another that sounds better amped but the difference is much less than those others.


----------



## rudyae86

Well just wanted to give my input on the Sennhesier PC350 SE that I bought for 89.99 and compared them to my X1. Now, Im using the Creative Labs Recon3D USB for both my PS3 and PC. Also using an E11 amp to drive both headphone and headset.
  
 Now, the X1, no doubt has a better soundstage, lows are right there with a good punch, mids and highs are great for a warm headphone. For me this headphone is good enough for competitive FPS, well for my taste. I can still hear, footsteps, gunshots from other rooms or far. Bass drones out everything usually when theres so much going on, for example, BF4, when theres so many explosions all at once or your next to a LMG. Common sense, i know. But when you are out in the open, you can still hear everything clearly. I guess the obvious is that this is a headphone for more immersion but I feel like it can still contend with competitive FPS headphones....MLE rated it at 8.25 i think but I feel like it is more like a 9 to me. I guess it depends what you are using either Creatives surround sound or Dolby headphone...I think the X1 matches very well with the creative recon3d. Now i game more on PC so, maybe creatives newer sound cards may match the X1 better. But in PC, you can also use EQ to get rid of some of that bass, in which consoles dont have that option.
  
 Now comparing it to the 350SE. The only reason Im comparing it with the X1 is because the X1 is what i use mostly for games, music and movies. Im just going to say, X1 beats it in immersion easily and maybe on par with it in competitive FPS. The things I dont like about the PC350SE is that it lacks bass, harder to drive, Sound stage is smaller than X1 (i would say about 20% to 30% smaller on the PC350SE) because everything sounds closer than in the X1, sometimes the highs feel like they get a bit harsh, not a lot but sometimes. What I do like about the headset is that everything sounds slightly clearer than the X1 since Bass is somewhat anemic, its there but it doesnt extend low enough to make it a fun headset. Positional cues are actually noticeable but because of the reduced sound stage, sometimes its hard to know how far out the sounds im hearing are. It may be that i need to break into them a bit more since i have only had them for about 2 days and i have been leaving them on my computer playing music while Im gone. It has progressively gotten better in sound but im sure there is still more that needs to be heard, so I may have to give an update after a week or two and see how they hold up. It may be that the PC350SE maybe doesnt match the Recon3D and may be able to match Dolby headphone better and since I currently dont have an astro mix amp or an asus dx card, i cant confirm if it sounds better with Dolby Headphone, or worse.

 with the Asus sound card, I know there is an option to change to different speaker settings or actually putting the speakers farther away or closer and I think thats something the PC350SE could probobly take advantage because of its small sound stage and I have not found someone who owns the PC350SE and actually test it out with Dolby headphone, so info on that seems scarce. Competitve wise, the headphone may be a 7.5 or 7.75 for me using Recon3D, maybe its too soon and burn in has not really started to bring out its true potential. Immersion wise...well, it keeps you in the game and doesnt bored me but it doesnt get me excited like the X1 does. I wish I could compare the PC350SE with the PC360 or the new G4ME ONE and GAME ZERO which are the same for both the PC360 and PC350SE. MLE rated the PC360 a 9 but like I said, PC350SE feels like a 7.5 for me. Im sure its close to the PC360 but the lack of a wide soundstage, surely brings all the good stuff with it. The microphone however is awesome. With my X1, I have been using a Neewer mic, cheap 5 dollar mic and its good but picks up everything around me and even my roomates snoring lol. But the mic on the PC350SE is really nice and people can hear me loud and clear, without hearing my roommate snoring, so its noise canceling feature for the Mic is great.
  
 The reason I bought the PC350SE was because it was on sale for 89.99, came out to 103 or so with tax and I wanted something for late night play where my roomate is asleep and im awake killing some peeps in BF4 or racing in GT6 on my PS3. And since I didnt want to hear my roommate snore or anyone hearing him snore, this was a good option. Plus, this is my first Sennheiser headset or headphone derived product, so I was like "hey, might as well see what Senny is all about".
  
 Ill give more input on this headset and see if there is any notable effect in quality. I might purchase an asus to test it out with dolby but i kind of want to go creative labs with their Z sound card, which I have been told to be much better than my USB Recon3D.
  
 It sucks I cant find a really good review on this headset being used for surround sound. PC360 gets more reviews with surround sound than the PC350SE. I would say the PC350SE does very well for Stereo and it does sound very nice in Stereo but Im so use to surround sound that its hard to go back to Stereo now. And for the 100 bucks I paid for, I think its a good headset that souldnt be overlooked. You can still pinpoint enemies firing at you and clearly hear footsteps but the soundstage so far kills it for me.
  
 Any feedback on my review would be appreciated and this review by no means is audiophile esque, Im still new to the world of headphones and audio (noob) but im slowly learning but im also wasting so much money lol but I love it.
  
 Hopefully theres some feedback from 350SE users out here....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If everyone rated headphones they liked, there'd be way too many 9s around. 9s should be relegated to the highest tiers, not just headphones you feel do great. 8 is great. 9 is amazing. People are way too stuck on 9s and 10s.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Ifaverages e rated headphones they liked, there'd be way too many 9s around. 9s should be relegated to the highest tiers, not just headphones you feel do great. 8 is great. 9 is amazing. People are way too stuck on 9s and 10s.


 

For me, it just depends on what I currently have and what I listen to. Everyone wil have a different rating based on their taste and what they like. For you it may be an 8 but for me it may be a 9. I think that's just normal. What if we were to change the scale to just 1 through 5? I think that a more appropriate scale and all of these headphones would fall in the 2,3,4 range and hardly at 5. Kind of like GPA average.

Or what if the ratings were based of forum members...taking the average number out of 100 member who rated the X1 and from there you would have ur avarages for comfort, sound and competitive.
Or just 10 highly regarded members who would give a more detailed description of said headphone...and the take their numbers and average them.

I'm just throwing out ideas


----------



## Evshrug

Another thing to consider: back when Mad was trying out the K701, he was much more into competitive FPS than he is now. CoD4 and 6 are no longer his babies, now he's more interested in immersion, and this changing taste is reflected in his reviews. He's still really good at FPS, he's just looking for something new-ish and audio that is less fatiguing.


----------



## BigBadWulf

It would be fantastic, if you (Mad) could make the ratings comparable.
 I would not try to match the rating numbers to the price. To compare this you could make a fifth point like price and what you get for the money rating.
  
 Please don`t get me wrong. Your First post and this thread is like the holy Grail for gamers 
 Just tweak it a little bit. Make it more comparable.
  
 Yes, I understand, it is very difficult to compare them, when you don`t have them anymore.
 And every person has another feeling/hearing about a Headphone, but I think, that everybody who found this thread, knows it.
  
 (Sorry for my bad translation.I´ll try to improve my English skills 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





)


----------



## Fegefeuer

People should stop focussing on numbers/ratings, look what kind of diseases it brought upon gaming media as in publishers vs. devs vs/in alliance with gaming mags.
  
 No offense but numbers are for lazy people who want everything spit out for them and need others to make an easy, pseudo-safe choice.
  
 WORDS are much better. Read his reviews and comparisons properly, understand why he wants you to do additional research as well. 
  
 Add his reviews to the experiences of other members who got headphones that MLE reviewed and a few he didn't. Compare, add, make your choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks, Feg. I in all honesty was on the verge of removing the scores completely, and simply changing the verdicts to simple: bad, ok, good, with words as to why I felt that way.

Then people would have to read the review and see if it sounds like something they'd want.

Like you said, people get way too caught up on numerical scores, to the point of debating why a game got an 8.7 instead of a 9. YOU'VE GOTTA BE EFFING KIDDING ME.

Scores wont EVER be comparable, because there is simply no real way to compare a headphone I heard 3 years ago to one I heard 1 month ago. No one's ears are that good at remembering. What was good bad then, may not be so good today to my ears, and scores would have to continously be altered to reflect the changes, since what I thought was top tier is now middle tier, etc. Comparing scores for headphones I never compared to begin with is just stupid to me.

So again, I will stand by my decision to score headphones on their own merits and shortcomings. 

If you want to base things just off score, you're in the wrong place, and I'm sorry my reviews didn't help.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Sorry Fegefeuer, it has nothing to do with being lazy. This Thread helped me a lot to decide my next pair of HP for gaming (Q701), but I have read hundreds of posts, Youtube videos and reviews (although yours, Evshrugs and many more comments) and I spend a lot of time in my research (at least 40-50 effective hours... crazy  ).
  
 I know most of the AKG, Audio Technica, Beyer Dynamic English and German speaking gaming Reviews/Threads. And I tried some Dutch Youtube reviews too 
 For sure, not only the first post made my decision, but it gave me some directions, where to search, what is interesting, what not.
  
 I have learned a lot and I try to help others with what I have learned. But if it could help to save other people time. Why not? Time is limited for most people.
 Especially in this thread are people with a huge amount of Headphone and gaming knowledge. But we are on page 1753!!!
 Sorry if this "discussion" has been said before 
 It is just a plea.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Ups, Mad, we had an crossover with our posts.
  
 Ok, I can understand that.
  
 As written. Your reviews helped a lot (I never wanted the Q701 before).
  
 Too bad, that it is not possible, but I understand your arguments.
  
 It was just difficult to see, what is the best competitive HP you have tested so far.


----------



## PurpleAngel

darkethereal said:


> I kind of think the 1-10 scoring system being used here isn't very effective, especially when there's basically no scores under 3. It feels too compressed and I worry that good cheap headphones get extra points for being good relative to their price point.
> I've also been looking at the Fidelio X1. I was originally put off by it's non-replaceable ear cups, but now I'm thinking that isn't really a big deal. I could get them used from amazon with the 30 day returns policy for £160.
> The feedback I'm finding on whether the Xonar DG can power those headphones seems mixed. It's not recommended to go up to that number of ohms, and lots of people are saying it'd be a good idea to get an amp, but it seems like those with the DG say the DG works and it's still a jaw dropping experience.
> I really want to avoid spending extra money on a separate amp, I've got other computer parts to throw money at!
> I'd also be torn what to get. I know audiophiles often recommend external everything, but I've toyed with the idea of switching to a creative sound card to try the CMSS-3D technology instead of Dolby headphone, but I get the feeling a creative card with the right built in amp would be expensive.


 
  
 The Philips Fidelio X1s are only 30-Ohms, easy for the Xonar DG to drive.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Many shops offer loaning programs for headphones. When a local shop here didn't have the LCD-2 I ordered it from the north of Germany for 2 weeks marked as a loaner. Yes, you can have headphones sent to your house if you ask. I am sure in the Netherlands as well. Of course you need to pay the amount as a safety. (my local shop just makes a copy of my ID).
  
 Anyway, there's no need to read all pages. Read the reviews, check out measurements (though MLE's reviews are pretty spot on about the dips, lows, elevations, balances etc.) pick max 3 phones that really interest you and are affordable and try to get loaners. Listen to them, game, watch movies, find out what you like. Once you like them you could see how people  that prefer these headphones think about them or if they even have additional phones that they listen next to them and why (ultimately your ears should decide).
  
 Right now I am listening to the HD 800 via a Soundblaster ZxR (yes, still got my DAC) and it's still a fantastic experience. If I only read about this headphone I would have stayed away because 1000+ DACs, AMPz'n'stuff yo. (though there's a bit of Schiit Modi/Vali HD 800 hype going on right now).
  
 Time isn't more limited than 30 years ago. (not directed at you). 99% of the people that complain about lack of time in today's day and age are easy to spot on social media/whatsapp, wasting away. =D


----------



## DarkEthereal

Clearly what we need is some really rich guy to buy ALL the headphones in the guide, review them all, and keep them all for future reference!
  
 Or we need a statistician who can propose a way to enumerate lots of single comparisons between 2 headphones (as these are by far the most common), average out the comparisons between all the reviews to come up with a "factor of betterness" in each catagory, then order the headphones by their betterness relationships using clever maths.
  
 FYI right now I'm leaning towards getting a used Fidelio X1 off amazon. If not that, I'd get the DT 990.
  
 Was just wondering if I should consider a new cable a must for the Fidelio X1.
  
 And also my opinions of my PX100-II should not be taken as a reflection of those headphones as a whole, due to the fact that the earpads on mine have almost entirely fallen apart, and I've not used anything other than the CALs for the longest time.


----------



## Stillhart

darkethereal said:


> Clearly what we need is some really rich guy to buy ALL the headphones in the guide, review them all, and keep them all for future reference!
> 
> Or we need a statistician who can propose a way to enumerate lots of single comparisons between 2 headphones (as these are by far the most common), average out the comparisons between all the reviews to come up with a "factor of betterness" in each catagory, then order the headphones by their betterness relationships using clever maths.
> 
> ...


 
  
 No.  A new cable will make a difference, but there are plenty of upgrades that will make a much much bigger difference. 
  
 Regarding the relative merits of the reviews, I think you guys are missing something here.  When you're comparing the best of the best, you look for any little flaw just to differentiate things.  
  
 Ferrari vs Lamborghini, do you really think that there's so much of a difference that hours of research is necessary?  No, get the car that gives you the biggest wood and be ******* happy.
  
 How about that new guitar you want to buy?  Very little difference when you're just learning.  Get the one that makes you want to pick up that guitar and fondle it every time you walk by it.
  
 Headphones for competitive gaming?  This is a 9 and that's a 9.5!  I'm going to hear one less footstep per month!  Is it worth?!?!? 
  
 Just pick one and enjoy it.  I swear to god, I've never seen a nooby in this thread (including myself) finally decide on a headphone and then come back and go, "I know it was rated 9.5 but I think it's just meh and I regret my choice."  Flip a coin, buy one, and then enjoy it!
  
 Later, once you have your own idea of what you like and don't, we can give better advice on what will work for you.  But when you're first getting started, there's effectively no difference between the heavy hitters in this thread.


----------



## Reckless95

I would get rid of the numbers and have 2 categories. Immersion and competitive. Have your definition of each that you're basing your thoughts off of and not having a score. I think people will take the numbers into consideration and then base the price off each. Saying this is a $300 headphone and it's only rated 9 compared to a $100 headphone that you rated 9 aswell. Just my thought but if I had to score my K712 Pros, it would be close to your numbers anyways, although if I compared them to the K701 I would probably give out 10s to the K712.


----------



## DarkEthereal

You know, forget I ever brought up the numbering system. I don't want to be the cause of the removal of it because I said I was confused by it just a little.
  
 The numbering system is important. I've got friends who still don't believe that audiophile stereo headphones with DH sound a lot better than any crappy gamer brand out there, so if this guide was just a bunch of long reviews, they wouldn't read it.
  
 There has to be SOME form of quick reference for the new guys.
  
 But I'm not so stupid as to rely on the numbers. The issue is that I've looked at the numbers, and the reviews, and I was still not sure what to get because I'm being careful as I don't want to take a noticeable hit on the CAL's musical performance. If I hadn't used the CALs and was buying from say the porta pros, I wouldn't have an issue, I'd just go for one of the many better options at the higher prices.
 But with the CALs, they are already high on musicality and competitiveness, so I'm trying to work out what's better relative to the CAL. Unfortunately in the review there wasn't a great deal to go on in terms of comparisons to other headphones in the guide.
  
 Hence what to get was still unclear. Hence I asked here, hence received feedback, hence problem solved. No longer any issue.
  
 I'm not accusing anyone of doing something really wrong here. I made a comment about the 1-10 number system being too compressed, which I still feel could be true, and I made some joking remarks about rich guys and statisticians.
 I also think it's not clear whether the scoring is relative to price ranges or not, which still isn't clear to me.
  
 I understand that headphones are a subjective topic, and I understand that the reviews and comparisons can't be 100% accurate because one person can't own all the headphones in the guide at once. I understand that the guide can't do everything, which is why I asked here. I think you should get of people's case about being confused by the guide. The very nature of the process is confusing and probably always will be. Can't a guy just be confused, ask in the comments, and get unconfused, without getting told off for being confused?
 I'm not going by the numbers, I'm going by every piece of data I can find, that I judge as reliable. I've read the detailed reviews too.


----------



## infinity1

Hello everyone I'm new here and I have a Q701 + Schiit Vali and Astro Mixamp 2010.
 I just wanted to add something on here in case people like me were looking for an answer. So I bought a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter for my mixamp so I can listen to my friends on PSN party chat. For some reason it is incredibly quiet for me and I have to turn the dial all the way down to voice or game just to hear them. I have no clue why this is. Anyways, I bought the adapter and plugs a 3.5mm cable from the mixamp to the controller (using the adapter of course) to my surprise (I was also pretty pissed) it didn't work. As a matter of fact it was worse my friends voices were just filled with static. SO I unplug the 3.5mm cable and it started working perfectly (wouldn't mind an explanation to this)I have the dial back in the middle and I can hear everyone AND the game sound and music clearly it's almost as if I tricked the mixamp. So now when I turn on my PS4 I make sure to plug in that 3.5mm cable to the controller and unplug it so I can hear everyone. I thought it would be like xbox where I would just plug it straight into the controller but I guess not.

 hope this helps anyone wondering what the hell is going on and gives tips and tricks to try out?


----------



## Yethal

infinity1 said:


> Hello everyone I'm new here and I have a Q701 + Schiit Vali and Astro Mixamp 2010.
> I just wanted to add something on here in case people like me were looking for an answer. So I bought a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter for my mixamp so I can listen to my friends on PSN party chat. For some reason it is incredibly quiet for me and I have to turn the dial all the way down to voice or game just to hear them. I have no clue why this is. Anyways, I bought the adapter and plugs a 3.5mm cable from the mixamp to the controller (using the adapter of course) to my surprise (I was also pretty pissed) it didn't work. As a matter of fact it was worse my friends voices were just filled with static. SO I unplug the 3.5mm cable and it started working perfectly (wouldn't mind an explanation to this)I have the dial back in the middle and I can hear everyone AND the game sound and music clearly it's almost as if I tricked the mixamp. So now when I turn on my PS4 I make sure to plug in that 3.5mm cable to the controller and unplug it so I can hear everyone. I thought it would be like xbox where I would just plug it straight into the controller but I guess not.
> 
> hope this helps anyone wondering what the hell is going on and gives tips and tricks to try out?


 
 PS4 jack and xbox 360 chat jack have different wiring. Try turtle beach ps4 chat cable


----------



## infinity1

Well thats the thing, I dont really need to because the voice chat is perfect I can hear everything perfectly, everything is fine I was just letting people know that are doing my set up or similar that it works and stuff to try out. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks, Feg. I in all honesty was on the verge of removing the scores completely, and simply changing the verdicts to simple: bad, ok, good, with words as to why I felt that way.



I mean, your reviews already have the "words." Most audio mags I've read don't assign a number to the overall quality or a particular area, just share enthusiasm or lack thereof (maybe brief relevant comparisons). The numbers clearly just confuse things, and YEAH if someone fails to analyze a review and just look for a number or rating then YEAH their actions are of someone who doesn't care.

We wanna help, I know you figured the guide was the best way to pay forward the experiences you were having, so just make it easier on yourself and imitate the pro reviewers 




bigbadwulf said:


> Sorry Fegefeuer, it has nothing to do with being lazy. This Thread helped me a lot to decide my next pair of HP for gaming (Q701), but I have read hundreds of posts, Youtube videos and reviews (although yours, Evshrugs and many more comments) and I spend a lot of time in my research (at least 40-50 effective hours... crazy  ).
> 
> I have learned a lot and I try to help others with what I have learned. But if it could help to save other people time. Why not? Time is limited for most people.



I totally get the feeling that you ought to share what you learn, I also went on a research "binge" and spent days and days looking into options and reviews. I'd say I did far more research than I'd recommend to most people should (I could've spent that time enjoying the headphone!), however I will say that I felt very satisfied once I made my choice and had zero buyer's remorse. Same thing with my amp, my surround processors, my computer, my camera, my car, my shoes... Basically, gathering an excess of research is just how some people work, and then we scratch our head's when others make the same purchases in 10 seconds of deliberation.

Oh, and did you like my stuff? I keep debating on making more YouTube videos, I have a surround processor guide on the backburner (video is done just needs editing) but I keep putting it off.




darkethereal said:


> Clearly what we need is some really rich guy to buy ALL the headphones in the guide, review them all, and keep them all for future reference!




Oh, you mean like that guy who made the massive flagship headphone round-up? He didn't use numbers, but he gave letter grades for each headphone in each class. Also, he worked for Headroom, so he had access to a large number of headphones concurrently (and somehow bucketloads of money).

Thing is, as comprehensive as his round-up was, I didn't agree with him on everything, greater experience be damned. For example, he LOVED the DT880 600ohm, and I got one too partly based off his review, but the mids bored me with their sterility and I didn't find them to offer anything my AKG's couldn't reveal too, they sounded clean but they physically made my ears ache and produce lots of earwax (signs of the body trying to protect from hearing loss), etc etc. The point is, the headphone's character was described in the review, but I still came away with a different opinion and couldn't live with the headphone.

I love Amazon's return policy, but I try not to abuse it (the DT880 was my first return, and it was already a near-new customer return unit).


----------



## Sam21

I was searching online for comfortable but good sounding head*sets *suitable* *for the longer gaming sessions and came up with these two :
  
 Sennheiser PC 320
 Beyerdynamic MMX 2 
  
 What do you guys think about these two ?
  
 I heard they are better than these "mainstream" gimmicky headsets  from SC CA and SS ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ive been fumbling with all the extra cables between my ds4 and mixamp when chatting. I wish I hadn't rid myself of the Plyr1...


----------



## Fegefeuer

The MA900 I bought for my sister together with a DSS arrived last week at her palce and she started her first DHP/VST journey (she played TLOU with the Mixamp at my place for a few hours of her PS3 campaign last year) and is pretty mesmerized. I had to tell her to stop writing all the time and enjoy the game. 
  
 The few hours I listend to it (had to open it to make sure it works before sending it out) that thing was  practically a steal for around 160 Dollars. It's not available for that price anymore, in german forums many regret not having bought one 3-4 weeks ago. Somehow I wish I should have bought one for me too, such a well sounding emerald (although I am not used to that bass roll off).
  
 Let's see if the MDR-Z7 price drops MA900 style in 2 years.


----------



## kashim

hi guy s i m looking for a best gaming headphone under 200 euro,i m competitive player i need a headphone with huge soundestage optimal direction and accuracy for positional audio(like a wallhack )i have read the guide and i m looking between
 ad700x                                          fun 6 com 10 
 dt990                                            fun 8.5 com 8 
 akg k612(my vote)                        fun 7.25 com 9 
 hd558(pc360 headphone)            fun 6 com 9 
 akg k701                                       fun 6 com 10 
 i know that score,akg k701 and ad700 are the best but aren t fun,they aren t immersive,gaming isn t only foots step or positional audio.don t wanna listel a bomb explosione like a bam....sxxt is a boom!!...akg k612 have good comp rating 9 and good fun 7.25....but have good soundstage directional audio and accuracy?someone suggest it for me or some other choise is better for me?i use soundblaster z with 600 ohm for amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get a K612. Not much better at that price range. MA900 would be a viable alternative for more immersion, but sadly, prices have skyrocketed.

Axel, HE400 WITH ALCANTARA PADS IMPRESSIONS, PLZ


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sony-MDR-MA900-Open-Air-Stereo-Headphones-from-Japan-/161429569381?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item2595f3bf65
  
 199 Dollars for you US guys. ={


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The features say AD900x. Seems sketchy.


----------



## kashim

mad lust envy said:


> Get a K612. Not much better at that price range. MA900 would be a viable alternative for more immersion, but sadly, prices have skyrocketed.
> 
> Axel, HE400 WITH ALCANTARA PADS IMPRESSIONS, PLZ


 
 better then ad700,dt990,q701,k701 for gaming?in competitive?


----------



## kashim

une they really good for positional audio,accuracy like ad700 or k701?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Theres no SIMPLE better. They are all very good with tradeoffs. You need to understand that all decent headphones more or less do the same things well, some slightly being better in certain frequencies, some being better in others. Its not like sounds disappear from one headphone to the next. 

Read the reviews and decide which sounds most appealing to you. That's it. We were JUST discussing this.

I can take a headphone that I personally rated a 7, and do just as well as a headphone with a 10. Get it?


----------



## kashim

Citazione: 





> Originalmente inviato da *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Theres nessun SEMPLICE migliore. Sono tutti molto buoni con compromessi. È necessario capire che tutte le cuffie decenti, più o meno fare le stesse cose bene, alcuni un po 'di essere meglio in certe frequenze, alcuni sono meglio di altri. I suoi suoni non come scompaiono da una cuffia all'altra. Leggi i commenti e decidere che suona più attraente per voi. Questo è tutto. Stavamo solo discutendo questo. posso prendere una cuffia che personalmente ha votato 7, e fare altrettanto bene come una cuffia con un 10 Get It?


 
 u ve tryed ad700x k701 q701 dt990 and akg k612...if u need 1 of that for competitive player fps 80% and other games 20% what u buy?


----------



## kashim

Citazione: 





> Originalmente inviato da *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Theres nessun SEMPLICE migliore. Sono tutti molto buoni con compromessi. È necessario capire che tutte le cuffie decenti, più o meno fare le stesse cose bene, alcuni un po 'di essere meglio in certe frequenze, alcuni sono meglio di altri. I suoi suoni non come scompaiono da una cuffia all'altra. Leggi i commenti e decidere che suona più attraente per voi. Questo è tutto. Stavamo solo discutendo questo. posso prendere una cuffia che personalmente ha votato 7, e fare altrettanto bene come una cuffia con un 10 Get It?


 
 esserefor foosteeps directional audio and accuracy but with immersive sound without sacrifice so much competitive profile is the akg k612 the best of the list for this use?


----------



## Fegefeuer

> Originalmente inviato da *Mad Lust Envy*
> 
> 
> 
> Theres nessun SEMPLICE migliore. Sono tutti molto buoni con compromessi. È necessario capire che tutte le cuffie decenti, più o meno fare le stesse cose bene, alcuni un po 'di essere meglio in certe frequenze, alcuni sono meglio di altri. I suoi suoni non come scompaiono da una cuffia all'altra. Leggi i commenti e decidere che suona più attraente per voi. Questo è tutto. Stavamo solo discutendo questo. posso prendere una cuffia che personalmente ha votato 7, e fare altrettanto bene come una cuffia con un 10 Get It?


 
  
  
 Damn, MLE's Italian isn't too shabby.


----------



## kashim

what?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering an Italian metal group is my favorite.... 

Lacuna Coil... I simply must see them in 3 weeks.


----------



## kashim

lacuna coil is great group ...can u raccomand me akg k612 for competitive 80% and 20% single player games over the other?are they accurated with great soundstage immersivity and positional audio?u say : with k701 i can hear when enemy cross one point and can prefire him (nice 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) can akg k612 do this and can compete with ad700x k701 without sacrifice so much sound quality and immersivity?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the k612.


----------



## Stillhart

kashim said:


> better then ad700,dt990,q701,k701 for gaming?in competitive?


 
 Go read my post on the last page.
  
 Then buy the one that you already decided was the best for you, the K612.


----------



## Yethal

kashim said:


> hi guy s i m looking for a best gaming headphone under 200 euro,i m competitive player i need a headphone with huge soundestage optimal direction and accuracy for positional audio(like a wallhack )i have read the guide and i m looking between
> ad700x                                          fun 6 com 10
> dt990                                            fun 8.5 com 8
> akg k612(my vote)                        fun 7.25 com 9
> ...


 
 Dude, rating is subjective. Also, read what is said in the actual reviews instead of looking at the scores only.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Get a K612. Not much better at that price range. MA900 would be a viable alternative for more immersion, but sadly, prices have skyrocketed.
> 
> Axel, HE400 WITH ALCANTARA PADS IMPRESSIONS, PLZ


 
  
 I will when I get a chance! ;P I need a bit of time to swap and listen. I'm handling at least 2-3 new PMs on the sale every day, it's kinda funny how they still haven't sold.
  
 Maybe I'll try it tonight with some Destiny. Wonder how the pairing would work for gaming.


----------



## Reckless95

kashim said:


> u ve tryed ad700x k701 q701 dt990 and akg k612...if u need 1 of that for competitive player fps 80% and other games 20% what u buy?




We also aren't you. We all have our preferences. What's comfortable to one of us might not be for you.


----------



## BigBadWulf

fegefeuer said:


> Let's see if the MDR-Z7 price drops MA900 style in 2 years.


 
  
 That would be a dream come true.
 Somehow I am hypnotized by them. They look rock solid, the 70mm driver is promising, the earpads seem to be fantastic, nice cables.... I have to jump to the MDR-Z7 flagship thread... just to see some pics...


----------



## Abula

I just got my Philips X1 and Vmoda BoomPro,  and its a terrific setup for gaming, specially the microphone is really good in terms of quality, i done very brief testing, but everybody (over 40 different persons) prefer the VModa Boom pro microphone over my UBS Rode Podecaster and UBS Yeti Blue, that imo are much better mics, but they say it sound much clearer and its like having me next to them.  Also I own Modmic 2.0, 3.0 and recently aquired the 4.0, i did some testing between the three with 5 people on mumble entering on my omega eclaro soundcard, and i from their feedback, they prefered also the boompro, very close by Midmic 2.0, some couldn't tell which was which, but on the modmic 3.0 and 4.0 all said were less detailed than the 2.0 and the Vmoda Boompro.  The only downside of the Vmoda Boompro is its not noise cancelling, keyboard typing its very esiliy heard so are ambient noise, where the modmic is much better.
  
 Now on the Phillips X1, im pretty satisfied with its comfort, really a great headphone, specially for gaming, love the velour padding and its very comfortable for me to wear for hours.  Now on the sound.... i feel as i have felt with most of the Open headphones, its much more detailed in mids and high, and has very detailed bass, but lacks the fun part, its not like my Ultrasone 900Pro where its a much more fun headphone for my taste.  Ill be ordering a Astro Mixamp 2011 edition to test it on the PS4, but as right now i see them more like AD700 than the 900pro in terms of fun, in terms of positional... the X1 imo are amazing as they AD700 are, maybe a little less in terms of having more bass than the AD700... but still a very well good.  Overall im pleased with the heaphones, just i was expecting a more fun, maybe with the mixamp it can change some.


----------



## Enginigmatic

After trying the Astro A50s, Skullcandy PLYR1, and most recently the Steelseries H, I am not satisfied with the audio quality and price/performance of any of them.
  
 As much as I liked the freedom and interoperability of a wireless gaming headset, the audio quality isn't there. The fact that none of the headsets could compete with my $80 MDR-V6s was a bummer in itself. The Steelseries H for example has the really swank base with configurable EQ, volume adjustment, etc, but none of that can make up for how muddy music sounded at a $300 price point.
  
 I guess I'm going to go with a set of wired phones.
  
 I still don't have a solution for using the same set with all of my consoles in addition to my PC, but I mostly do PC gaming nowadays on account of this generation of consoles thus far being mediocre, and a lot of titles being cross-plat anyway.
  
 The above mentioned Phillips X1 look interesting. I'm willing to spend in the ±$300 range, so I'm open to suggestions for a good setup.


----------



## Stillhart

abula said:


> I just got my Philips X1 and Vmoda BoomPro,  and its a terrific setup for gaming, specially the microphone is really good in terms of quality, i done very brief testing, but everybody (over 40 different persons) prefer the VModa Boom pro microphone over my UBS Rode Podecaster and UBS Yeti Blue, that imo are much better mics, but they say it sound much clearer and its like having me next to them.  Also I own Modmic 2.0, 3.0 and recently aquired the 4.0, i did some testing between the three with 5 people on mumble entering on my omega eclaro soundcard, and i from their feedback, they prefered also the boompro, very close by Midmic 2.0, some couldn't tell which was which, but on the modmic 3.0 and 4.0 all said were less detailed than the 2.0 and the Vmoda Boompro.  The only downside of the Vmoda Boompro is its not noise cancelling, keyboard typing its very esiliy heard so are ambient noise, where the modmic is much better.
> 
> Now on the Phillips X1, im pretty satisfied with its comfort, really a great headphone, specially for gaming, love the velour padding and its very comfortable for me to wear for hours.  Now on the sound.... i feel as i have felt with most of the Open headphones, its much more detailed in mids and high, and has very detailed bass, but lacks the fun part, its not like my Ultrasone 900Pro where its a much more fun headphone for my taste.  Ill be ordering a Astro Mixamp 2011 edition to test it on the PS4, but as right now i see them more like AD700 than the 900pro in terms of fun, in terms of positional... the X1 imo are amazing as they AD700 are, maybe a little less in terms of having more bass than the AD700... but still a very well good.  Overall im pleased with the heaphones, just i was expecting a more fun, maybe with the mixamp it can change some.


 
  
 Interesting.  I wonder what the Ultrasone 900Pro sounds like if you think the X1 isn't "fun".  Everything I've read about the AD700 says it's got almost no bass.  My experience with the X1 is that it has so much bass that it muddies up the mids.  The Ultrasone must shake your eyeballs in your skull to make the X1 not seem "fun".


----------



## kashim

are k612 good as ad700 or q701 for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Interesting.  I wonder what the Ultrasone 900Pro sounds like if you think the X1 isn't "fun".  Everything I've read about the AD700 says it's got almost no bass.  My experience with the X1 is that it has so much bass that it muddies up the mids.  The Ultrasone must shake your eyeballs in your skull to make the X1 not seem "fun".




Omg have you ever heard a Sony XB500?
When you first put them on, you'll think "oh pleather but actually pretty soft." Start music and you'll laugh for three seconds but then go "GWUOOOOOOOOOOH!"

'‘O~O’`


----------



## Stillhart

kashim said:


> are k612 good as ad700 or q701 for gaming?


 
  
 If you keep asking, you might get a different answer?


----------



## Evshrug

kashim said:


> are k612 good as ad700 or q701 for gaming?



This is all you'll get from me, our discussion from the same page you first posted on:



fegefeuer said:


> Many shops offer loaning programs for headphones. When a local shop here didn't have the LCD-2 I ordered it from the north of Germany for 2 weeks marked as a loaner. Yes, you can have headphones sent to your house if you ask. I am sure in the Netherlands as well. Of course you need to pay the amount as a safety. (my local shop just makes a copy of my ID).
> 
> Anyway, there's no need to read all pages. Read the reviews, check out measurements (though MLE's reviews are pretty spot on about the dips, lows, elevations, balances etc.) pick max 3 phones that really interest you and are affordable and try to get loaners. Listen to them, game, watch movies, find out what you like. Once you like them you could see how people  that prefer these headphones think about them or if they even have additional phones that they listen next to them and why (ultimately your ears should decide).
> 
> ...







stillhart said:


> No.  A new cable will make a difference, but there are plenty of upgrades that will make a much much bigger difference.
> 
> Regarding the relative merits of the reviews, I think you guys are missing something here.  When you're comparing the best of the best, you look for any little flaw just to differentiate things.
> 
> ...






I don't even care if the continuity doesn't make much sense, just click to see the original post for context. And personally, I'll just quote the last time we said "Can't pick for you, read the review content and make your own choice" every time from now on when people ask "the question" in this thread. Especially if they ask it more than once.


----------



## Change is Good

Hi guys,

It's been a while. So, I'm having trouble choosing between the MA900, Q701, K612, and X1...

Which is the absolute best for gaming? I'm greedy, so I want everything a headphone can offer at under $200. If you say which one is better, I will ask you why... again, again, and again... in hopes you say the other, because I don't really want that one you chose.

Thanks and credit to Mud Last Envy for putting this wonderful guide together (which I didn't even bother to f*ing read)! 

Ooooh.. pretty numbers


----------



## kashim

evshrug said:


> This is all you'll get from me, our discussion from the same page you first posted on:
> 
> I don't even care if the continuity doesn't make much sense, just click to see the original post for context. And personally, I'll just quote the last time we said "Can't pick for you, read the review content and make your own choice" every time from now on when people ask "the question" in this thread. Especially if they ask it more than once.


 
 ok ty man i m only so scared because can t wrong buy in this moment ^^


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> It's been a while. So, I'm having trouble choosing between the MA900, Q701, K612, and X1...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't buy any of those. Those are terrible. Buy these.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> Don't buy any of those. Those are terrible. Buy these.


^ That and the 4.5 customer rating based on 300 reviews.


----------



## Evshrug

At one point in Mad's guide, he explains what makes a headphone work better than average with surround processing: soundstage (sense of space and depth), a sense of "air" to the treble, and clean details. Unless specifically stated as a poor example, almost all the headphones listed in this guide work well with surround processing and can surprise people used to listening to games in stereo.
•Competitive headphones maximize these traits and cut down on fuzziness/muddiness/distortion, and don't have colored bass that is boosted above neutral and overshadows detail, but sometimes they're by their nature a little dry and clinical for being engaged in music or believably realistic.
•"Immersive" style headphones do draw you into the audio, this can come from a colored sound (extra bass, recessed mids, extra treble) *or* a "holographic/transparent" sound that seems so realistic that sometimes you can't tell if a sound came from the game or your real-life environment.
•"All-'Rounder" headphones lean towards realism and that "holographic/transparent" sound, where they are both engaging to listen to but tend more to stay close to the believably uncolored and balanced sound signature, maybe slightly less crisp or highlights details less than the "competitive" headphones and not quite as indulgent for Jam Sessions like an "Immersive" headphone but remain very capable and satisfying headphones.

Again, unless Mad specifically states a headphone is bad in an area or just bad overall, all of these headphones in the guide are recommended! We understand that you want your money to be spent on the "best" choice: none of these choices are "bad" or "wrong." Just season to taste: read a headphone review and consider if the description appeals to what you want. If a headphone isn't in the guide, then Mad hasn't heard it or nobody else wrote a detailed enough guest review to add to the guide.

*MAD, feel free to use this summary in your intro if you like how I worded it, though I think you have stated these thoughts somewhere.*


To all people asking for recommendations,
The guide IS a list of recommendations. The thread regulars cannot *cannot* adequately make individual recommendations more specific to you because, ultimately, we don't know you. You DO though! So read the reviews on headphones that interest you. When people ask for us regulars to narrow it down for them, it buries the posts where other people contribute their own reviews, juicy news, or opinions. 

This thread would be MORE useful and easier to browse for info if it wasn't cluttered with special requests... and that's not even counting the many people PM'ing us like it was our job to provide service. Not to embarrass anyone, but here's the QUANTITY of posts where people don't analyze their tastes and make a special request in JUST THE PAST WEEK (prepare for quote-puke): 





kashim said:


> are k612 good as ad700 or q701 for gaming?







kashim said:


> lacuna coil is great group ...can u raccomand me akg k612 for competitive 80% and 20% single player games over the other?are they accurated with great soundstage immersivity and positional audio?u say : with k701 i can hear when enemy cross one point and can prefire him (nice :tongue_smile: ) can akg k612 do this and can compete with ad700x k701 without sacrifice so much sound quality and immersivity?







kashim said:


> u ve tryed ad700x k701 q701 dt990 and akg k612...if u need 1 of that for competitive player fps 80% and other games 20% what u buy?







kashim said:


> une they really good for positional audio,accuracy like ad700 or k701?







kashim said:


> better then ad700,dt990,q701,k701 for gaming?in competitive?







kashim said:


> hi guy s i m looking for a best gaming headphone under 200 euro,i m competitive player i need a headphone with huge soundestage optimal direction and accuracy for positional audio(like a wallhack )i have read the guide and i m looking between
> ad700x                                          fun 6 com 10
> dt990                                            fun 8.5 com 8
> akg k612(my vote)                        fun 7.25 com 9
> ...







sam21 said:


> I was searching online for comfortable but good sounding head*sets *suitable* *for the longer gaming sessions and came up with these two :
> 
> Sennheiser PC 320
> Beyerdynamic MMX 2
> ...







darkethereal said:


> Hnnng I'm so confused!
> 
> On recommendation of this thread, I bought the Creative Auvana Live headphones and used them for months, and they. were. EPIC!
> I hadn't owned anything really good before then, only the Porta pros and the PX-100 II headphones, so my oppinion of the CALs are probably skewed.
> ...







rudyae86 said:


> Does anyone know how the PC350 SE and G4ME Zero compare to any of the headphones in MLEs list?
> 
> Better yet, how does it compare to the close headsets that he has tried, like the Astro A40's?
> 
> ...







bigbadwulf said:


> Hi guys,
> if you dont care about Money(ok, max 600$), what are the best competitive shooter (Call of Duty headphones)?
> 
> I know, many guys have the same question and believe me, I have read thousands of reviews, Posts, threads and so on and I am still not sure about it.
> ...


----------



## BigBadWulf

Take the AD 700 if you have not enough money to buy the Q701. Just my opinion.
  
 The way this discussion takes is not that nice. Take a beer and cheers, skoal  Prost all together!


----------



## Change is Good

The problem, here, is that people refuse to read. We can't fix that, no matter how much information is added to the guide.


----------



## conquerator2

Am I the only one who finds reading about different headphones thrilling and exciting? Especially when I am trying to choose from a bunch... Guess it's cause I am into it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Same apply to electronics, games, ... anything I like basically


----------



## BigBadWulf

I am looking for a youtube clip, where a guy from creative demonstrates virtual 3D with working tools (drill). Somewhen I deleted this link, and I can`t find it anymore. It was a superb surround simulation to test Headphones.
 Is anyone here, who has that link?
 I only find the barbershop again and again  But Luigi is cool too 
http://youtu.be/IUDTlvagjJA
 EDIT:
 I finally found it... but I thought it was better :/
http://youtu.be/XlsIPwSj6Q0


----------



## Evshrug

bigbadwulf said:


> Take the AD 700 if you have not enough money to buy the Q701. Just my opinion.
> 
> The way this discussion takes is not that nice. Take a beer and cheers, skoal  Prost all together!




Thanks for trying to make an additive post.
I don't think we're flaming anyone here and trying to start an argument, so I wouldn't say this discussion is taking a mean turn either... There's just frustration. I started from Sennheiser PX100, went to AD700, then Q701, and at that point I'd have suggested the same, but now... Now the AD700 isn't the bargain it used to be (discontinued and the successor AD700x is also very good, but priced higher), now I've explored many more headphones, but most importantly now I've been visiting this thread for over 3 years and I've learned that "my" best headphone is different from some one else's, and it's better to present a few good options and let the other person decide what fits their priority.

The problem is that the first post already presents a nice list of great options... Anything else I could add is redundant other than my opinion (such as my ears found the MA900 about as withdrawn from engaging as the AD700, but your ears/opinion may differ). And like I said, personal requests and redundant posts bury posts that add to the discussion, like personal reviews or science-y bits or humor. Enough people make the excuse that the they can't find anything because the thread is XXXX pages long, so making things clear up-front would make things easier for people to do research.


----------



## conquerator2

Hmm. For me energetic midrange is kinds important. For that reason I for instance preferred the MA900/K612 to the X1 as they were simply too smooth and subdued relative to the other two.
For me a headphone has to be relatively even across the whole spectrum and have sufficient energy in the midrange. I hate overblown bass (the X1 is not like that IMO) or super edgy treble.
The K612 is very close and is probably my recommendation for anyone looking for an all-rounder, followed by the MA900, each having its pros and cons. The X1 is more bassy and less balanced than the two but it has the best treble and deepest and punchiest bass IMO. 

As for now, the 560 is currently my favorite all-round headphone. Even sounding, great extension, sufficient tight as and very extended bass, if a bit punch soft at times. Exquisite imaging... Although it does not have the soundstage awesomeness of a K612 (what planar does?) it is spacious enough, especially coupled with the great imaging.
As a pure gaming headphone, I probably wouldn't recommend it though I'd give it an 8+ for competitive and immersion... There are better strictly gaming headphones and the K612 and MA900 are comparable if noticeably less accurate and refined.
The MA900 is more immerssive and bigger soundstage wise, while the K612 is less or about as fun but wins competitive wise due to great soundstage. The X1 is the most fun but least competitive of the bunch but still not too shabby.
The greatest advantage all have over the 560 is soundstage size but the 560 manages to portray the cues better, more speaker like in the space, if limited scale wise, with great imaging and cue accuracy.
With music, the 560 easily outshines the three though they still hold out respectively. Same with movies with a more consistent and balanced experience, like with games.
So purely for games no, but as an all-rounder, they're a great headphone and although expensive, they compete with some headphones twice the price. HiFiMAN being very competitive in general 
My 2c.


----------



## Abula

stillhart said:


> Interesting.  I wonder what the Ultrasone 900Pro sounds like if you think the X1 isn't "fun".  Everything I've read about the AD700 says it's got almost no bass.  My experience with the X1 is that it has so much bass that it muddies up the mids.  The Ultrasone must shake your eyeballs in your skull to make the X1 not seem "fun".


 
  
 Well maybe im a little over doing, i just expected to be as fun as Ultrasone 900pro but with better positional and more accurate, you get the last two, but the Ultrasone 900Pro for me simply makes it much more enjoyable, music and games, its just the sound richer and fuller, not thin and accurate.... all in audio is extremly subjective, so take my comments with a grain of salt, im also used of very good subs, atm i own a PSA XS15SE on my pc and XS30SE on my HT, while i dont expect heaphones to be as powerful, i just simply miss that kinda omp that threaters with dedicated sub give you, something that not all look, but for sure out of all my heatphones that i own, the Ultrasone 900pro is the best into giving me a similar experience.
  
 Either way im not bashing the X1 at all, ill be using them for gaming, specially for destiny on PS4, but im a little disappointed, as for the first time i though there is a open headphone that will give me a fun experience... and its better than most, but not as fun as i would liked, and at my age FUN is getting more important than competitive.
  
  
 Quote:


evshrug said:


> Omg have you ever heard a Sony XB500?
> When you first put them on, you'll think "oh pleather but actually pretty soft." Start music and you'll laugh for three seconds but then go "GWUOOOOOOOOOOH!"
> 
> '‘O~O’`


 
  
 If i could find them at $50 like they used to retail, i would give a try.... but now they seem almost twice as much.


----------



## Evshrug

That Sony headphone was like... ALL BASS. All the time. And everything else was super recessed. Not detailed, no soundstage, not immersive, just BASS. I got through a song and a half or something like 5 minutes because it's simply too much, the most extremely colored headphone I've ever heard.

Might be fun for like $15-$20 to pass it around at parties and see people's reactions, but it's more like a status symbol or gimmick than actually something for listening to music. I'd bet that even an ardent basshead wouldn't listen for long periods of time (like one CD), it's just SO MUCH!


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> Take the AD 700 if you have not enough money to buy the Q701. Just my opinion.
> 
> *The way this discussion takes is not that nice. Take a beer and cheers, skoal  Prost all together!*


 
  
 I agree.  Some of the comments from the regulars are way out of line.  Shame on you, guys.  You haven't been this bad since the first time I showed up in the thread and you almost chased me away.
  
 That said, obviously they have a point.  They're just going about showing it in a bad way.  When someone asks the same question for the 4th time, just quote them the answer again and move along.  Or ignore it and get on with your life.  No need to be a smarmy ******* about it.


----------



## Change is Good

If people take what I say as not kindly and overboard, I hate to see how they would react to the real world. 

With that said, I'll just refrain from posting anymore Foghorn Leghorn comments. I can play nice, sometimes


----------



## wilflare

my X1, BoomPro and Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 finally arrived.
  
 some thoughts
 (1) Philip Fidelio X1 is FANTASTIC!  love the new details I'm hearing! tried it both on my PS4 and my PC (via the Audinst HUD-MX1) - sounds really good
  
 (2) for all the Audio Mix settings in-game in PS4 (e.g. inFamous SS, First Light, and The Last of Us) do we choose Home Theater or Headphones?
  
 (3) Mixamp Pro 2013 is a disappointment - I don't know what's wrong with it but I can't seem to set up my BoomPro properly with it. 
 (i) With the X1 and BoomPro plugged into the Mixamp, I'm getting electric shocks from the Boompro mic itself when it brushes my cheek (I tried the Boompro on my Note3, no such issue!)
 (ii) I can't seem to get the PS4 to recognise my voice commands (e.g. "PlayStation") - When the PS4 catches the command, it can't understand as it is too loud. I turn down the Microphone level, the PS4 can't catch the command at all. I tried testing the mic via PS4 Twitch stream, it is way too loud as well.
  
 any suggestions on how to exactly configure my Mixamp? I updated it to the latest firmware as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is quiye literally unlike any other. That thing is snappy as hell, but strooooong. The vibrations are a sensation that no other mid bassy headphones can emulate, IMHO. Yes, no headphone that's bassy can match the Pro 900 in that regard. Problen with the Pro 900 is everything else. Recessed mids, jagged, sibilant treble that is quite unnatural. In the case of the Pro 900, Dolby Headphone's general warmth is quite beneficial to the Pro 900, which is a big reason why they work so well together. Other than that, the Pro 900 is pretty flawed, and will definitely always be love/hate. That bass though, so good.


----------



## Abula

mad lust envy said:


> The Pro 900 is quiye literally unlike any other. That thing is snappy as hell, but strooooong. The vibrations are a sensation that no other mid bassy headphones can emulate, IMHO. Yes, no headphone that's bassy can match the Pro 900 in that regard. Problen with the Pro 900 is everything else. Recessed mids, jagged, sibilant treble that is quite unnatural. In the case of the Pro 900, Dolby Headphone's general warmth is quite beneficial to the Pro 900, which is a big reason why they work so well together. Other than that, the Pro 900 is pretty flawed, and will definitely always be love/hate. That bass though, so good.


 
 I agree with you on your statements on the Ultrasone 900pro, and im thankful for your review, as you were the main reason i bought it, and been enjoying them, really quiet unique heaphone that i personally enjoy, but its not for everyone, just fits right into what i like.  Im hopping X1 gets better once i get the Mixamp 2011, while they are still fine, i want it to be a little more fun, thats all.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Signature DJ is the Pro 900 done fffff right.


----------



## azooz

http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/d1p
  
 ^^ 
 is this DAC+AMP 
 or just DAC ?
  
 and i am going to use it with DT 990 PRO 
  
 is It capable of feeding to the fullest ?
  
 Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

azooz said:


> http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/d1p
> 
> ^^
> is this DAC+AMP
> ...


 
  
 That seems like a question for the D1 thread.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/470639/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d1-dac-amp-condensed-faq-and-info-thread


----------



## wilflare

wilflare said:


> my X1, BoomPro and Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 finally arrived.
> 
> some thoughts
> (1) Philip Fidelio X1 is FANTASTIC!  love the new details I'm hearing! tried it both on my PS4 and my PC (via the Audinst HUD-MX1) - sounds really good
> ...


 
  
 for the new page + I did more test,
  
 the X1 + BoomPro work perfectly fine when plugged directly to the DS4. the BoomPro doesn't seem that good... it catches all the noise/sound from my fan.. whereas that doesn't happen with the Sony Wireless PULSE Elite... :/
  
 and no matter what I do (turned down microphone volume all the way to low on PS4) the BoomPro when plugged into my Astro Mixamp is just insanely loud that the PS4 can't recognize any commands and on Streams - it's just insane..
  
 any suggestions?


----------



## Sam21

I just got this guy in the mail....sounds amazing, very comfortable and has a condenser Mic...you guys should check it out..
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-MMX-Multimedia-Digital-Microphone/dp/B001BYOY42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412094652&sr=8-1&keywords=mmx+2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks comfy. On ear or over ear?


----------



## Sam21

I think it is a headset version of Beyer DT231


----------



## azooz

stillhart said:


> That seems like a question for the D1 thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/470639/maverick-audio-tubemagic-d1-dac-amp-condensed-faq-and-info-thread


 
 Thanks for help.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone looking for a 2011 mix amp? Picked it up late last year during the Microsoft store blow out. I don't think I've used it no more than 3-4 times. Pm me

Open to trades too


----------



## Elf-1

sam21 said:


> I just got this guy in the mail....sounds amazing, very comfortable and has a condenser Mic...you guys should check it out..
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-MMX-Multimedia-Digital-Microphone/dp/B001BYOY42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412094652&sr=8-1&keywords=mmx+2


 
 Wow that is a cheap headset, on the German Amazon it's only 58 euros :O Does it work with PS4 in combination with the Mixamp? 
   
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Looks comfy. On ear or over ear?


 
 In the description it says "Supraaural (on-the-ear)" so it's on ear I think.


----------



## Sam21

elf-1 said:


> Wow that is a cheap headset, on the German Amazon it's only 58 euros :O Does it work with PS4 in combination with the Mixamp?
> In the description it says "Supraaural (on-the-ear)" so it's on ear I think.


 
  
 You need the Y-Adapter for it .... 
  
 http://www.astrogaming.com/headset-y-adapter/3ACBL-HBM9U-760.html#start=1


----------



## Sam21

A bit clampy though this headset


----------



## wilflare

so I decided to contact Astro about the Mixamp being too loud on the mic output on my PS4 and the Boompro. I have already adjusted the volume to the lowest on the PS4 but it is still the same. 

Astro basically said there's nothing they can do since the Boompro is not supported. So what exactly is wrong here?


----------



## Reckless95

wilflare said:


> so I decided to contact Astro about the Mixamp being too loud on the mic output on my PS4 and the Boompro. I have already adjusted the volume to the lowest on the PS4 but it is still the same.
> 
> Astro basically said there's nothing they can do since the Boompro is not supported. So what exactly is wrong here?




It's the mic then. It's too sensitive. All the Mixamp does is take the signal. It doesn't have any control of loudness for the mic. Maybe try plugging it into the ps4 controller? I think there's a way to use headphones with the Mixamp and mic into the controller if I recall.


----------



## RyanDJ1

Have had the Q701s for a bit. I wanted a wide open sounding headphone with good detail to hear every but if my game. I found the Qs too small in stage when it comes to depth. Left I right was really wide but it didn't sound realistic because of the small depth!

Will the HD598 do a better job here?


----------



## wilflare

reckless95 said:


> It's the mic then. It's too sensitive. All the Mixamp does is take the signal. It doesn't have any control of loudness for the mic. Maybe try plugging it into the ps4 controller? I think there's a way to use headphones with the Mixamp and mic into the controller if I recall.




it works perfectly fine via the PS4 controller though. or is the mic actually faulty? I'm getting random static shocks when the mic brushes my cheek. 

was hoping to use the Mixamp for its mixer... but welp


----------



## BigBadWulf

I have the Q701 since Monday and the 598 since two years, so it is still difficult to compare them.
 At the moment I would say, that the Q701 manages better to  make a circle of sounds around you, especially it is the first Headphone, that simulates the "center" speaker very good. In my opinion the 598 has a little gap in front of you.
 The "rear" is extremely good.
 The objects are closer with the Q701 than with the 598. The 598 sound more airy.
 At the moment I can not say, which one is better. The Q701 is running all day long with my MP3 player to burn in, when I am not at home, but as far as I know it will take a lot of hours to sound best.
 The Quality of the Sound is already a little bit better with the Q701.
 Q701 Bass is good (as everywhere mentioned: "When there is real bass."), better than I thought. Somehow I feel, that the highs at higher volumes don`t kill my ear. For example: Firing a AN-94 in COD BO2 with high volume. This was painful with my other Headphones. I compared it and yes, it was not that harsh and I had not the feeling, that something is missing. It just seems right. That was the first thing I noticed.
  
 In comfort is the 598 the best Headphone I own (in my opinion better than the famous Sony MDR MA900), but with some added foam to the headband of the Q701 is it good too. The ear pads are getting hotter than the 598s, but still much better than any leather ear pad.
 The 598 is much easier to amp.


----------



## Evshrug

ryandj1 said:


> Have had the Q701s for a bit. I wanted a wide open sounding headphone with good detail to hear every but if my game. I found the Qs too small in stage when it comes to depth. Left I right was really wide but it didn't sound realistic because of the small depth!
> 
> Will the HD598 do a better job here?




In a word: No.

I can't see if your signature or what gear you have, but the Q701 is easily more capable than the HD598 in soundstage. If you don't yet, you should feed the Q with a (steady diet of) surround processor like a DSS or Mixamp AND ALSO a good desktop-class amp like a Magni or Project Starlight (I think tube amps in particular help create a natural sense of "space" and add musicality/energy). You should get good sound with a Q plugged into a surround processor directly, but if you want "more" soundstage and more distinctly arranged placement, trust me and the Q701 thread that this headphone is one of the top best soundstage headphones you can get, period. Sure, the $1500 HD800 is better, but you also need to amp that headphone to hear it's full capabilities.

I will say it again: Q701 and others like it sound very good even on a humble setup, but like others of it's quality-level you've basically reached bang-for-buck endgame and further upgrades should be focused on your audio chain. Sure, you can get more expensive headphones, but you'll never be able to justify the gain from the price difference except as a luxury, and you'll need a high-grade system to back it up anyway.


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> so I decided to contact Astro about the Mixamp being too loud on the mic output on my PS4 and the Boompro. I have already adjusted the volume to the lowest on the PS4 but it is still the same.
> 
> Astro basically said there's nothing they can do since the Boompro is not supported. So what exactly is wrong here?


 
  
 I haven't had anyone complain that I'm too loud when gaming. I'm using the BoomPro with a Mixamp 5.8 on the PS4. The mic input volume is adjustable on the PS4, you know.


----------



## Yethal

I probably shoudn't spam this thread with that, but I just got into Bloodborne Alpha. Will post some impressions tomorrow (I hope) for anyone interested.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> I probably shoudn't spam this thread with that, but I just got into Bloodborne Alpha. Will post some impressions tomorrow (I hope) for anyone interested.




I've heard good things!


----------



## wilflare

axelcloris said:


> I haven't had anyone complain that I'm too loud when gaming. I'm using the BoomPro with a Mixamp 5.8 on the PS4. The mic input volume is adjustable on the PS4, you know.


 
  
 the PlayStation 4 does not recognise my voice commands with the BoomPro and Mixamp (if it's plugged directly to the DS4, it does and my Sony Wireless PULSE Elite too)
 and yes I know about the adjustable mic input volume - I have played around with it (put it at the lowest) and I still get the same issue (it's booming on streams)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Been using the boompro a lot with the ps4 lately, and everyone says I sound fine. Only one guy says he barely hears me, but I'm sure his Mixamp settings are all wrong.


----------



## Abula

mad lust envy said:


> Been using the boompro a lot with the ps4 lately, and everyone says I sound fine. Only one guy says he barely hears me, but I'm sure his Mixamp settings are all wrong.


 
 You are running 5.8 or 2011 or 2013?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

5.8, as well as directly off the PS4 controller.


----------



## rudyae86

Has anyone noticed how BF4 sound has been upgraded? in terms of positional audio and depth?
  
 I noticed it and later on saw videos on youtube that it is indeed true 
  
 it finally doesnt sound all cluttered up like it use to. I mean, Im sure if your doing Operation Metro, if you are in a big group blowing stuff up...positional audio may be pointless.
  
 but in bigger maps and more open fields, positional audio should be improved.
  
 Just saying so you guys can try and hear it for yourselves and comment about it.


----------



## RyanDJ1

evshrug said:


> In a word: No.
> 
> I can't see if your signature or what gear you have, but the Q701 is easily more capable than the HD598 in soundstage. If you don't yet, you should feed the Q with a (steady diet of) surround processor like a DSS or Mixamp AND ALSO a good desktop-class amp like a Magni or Project Starlight (I think tube amps in particular help create a natural sense of "space" and add musicality/energy). You should get good sound with a Q plugged into a surround processor directly, but if you want "more" soundstage and more distinctly arranged placement, trust me and the Q701 thread that this headphone is one of the top best soundstage headphones you can get, period. Sure, the $1500 HD800 is better, but you also need to amp that headphone to hear it's full capabilities.
> 
> I will say it again: Q701 and others like it sound very good even on a humble setup, but like others of it's quality-level you've basically reached bang-for-buck endgame and further upgrades should be focused on your audio chain. Sure, you can get more expensive headphones, but you'll never be able to justify the gain from the price difference except as a luxury, and you'll need a high-grade system to back it up anyway.




I have the Mixamp plus little dot MK4 tube amp.

I found the K701 and K 702 to have this problem. Wide at the sides but lacking depth even with Dolby headphone on. My MA900 and HD555 do a better job at an out of head stage than the Qs.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Been using the boompro a lot with the ps4 lately, and everyone says I sound fine. Only one guy says he barely hears me, but I'm sure his Mixamp settings are all wrong.




not sure if it's a problem specific to the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 that I have :/

the Boompro works fine directly plugged to the DS4...


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> not sure if it's a problem specific to the Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 that I have :/
> 
> the Boompro works fine directly plugged to the DS4...


 
  
 I mean... at this point it seems pretty clear that there's something wrong with your Boompro.  You've been talking about it for a week and nobody else is having any of the problems you've mentioned.  
  
 Get a cheap $5 mic off Amazon and test it with your Mixamp and you'll know in about 5 seconds if the problem is your Boompro or Mixamp.


----------



## l00ease

@ wilflare check out my post a few pages back, that should help with your mic issues, I had a similar one with the a40's mic extremely sensitive and ps4 wouldn't recognize commands (mixamp pro 2013)


----------



## Yethal

I'm starting my Bloodborne session right now. I'll post some feedback when 'm done (it's time limited)


----------



## Yethal

Okay. Here it goes:
  
 Bloodborne Alpha first impressions.
  
 At first it's mostly familiar. If you've ever played any of the Souls games, you'll feel right at home. I'll go over quickly what stayed the same compared to the previous games then I'll go over new and exciting stuff.
  

Controls - mostly the same with one minor (but very impactful difference, more on that later) difference. R1 R2 L1 L2 are used for right hand/left hand attacks X to interact, O to dodge/sprint, Square to use equipped item.
Exploration. The level I played (the same one as Gamescom demo) was as multilayered as levels in previous games. Various shortcuts and interconnecting paths makes the player appreciate the level design. It's not only sophisticated but it adds to the challenge (The player starts over after death so the shortcuts are the only way of avoiding doing the same thing over and over again). Still, nothing new to the Souls vets.
Combat - One very impactful difference, aside from that nothing new. Stamina management, dodging, strong and fast attacks are all back. Little to no change here aside from improved animation and the fact that the player now has the access to guns (again, more on that later)
Items - white orbs of light that the player interacts with to obtain items. Sounds familiar? Of course it does, copy&paste from previous games.
  
 Okay, time for the stuff that's new to Bloodborne, and there are a few things.
  

Graphics - This game is beautiful. Something that couldn't be said about Demon's Souls and console version of Dark Souls 1 which looked mediocre. Graphics are something every gamer pays attention to, even if some of them do not admit it. Not a problem here as Bloodborne looks ridiculously good. Full 1080p, great antialiasing (definitely oversampled and not FXAA), amazing model and texture quality. Bloodborne really is a looker. Framerate was mostly stable 30fps with a few stutters but it's an alpha version and I'm sure From Software will iron it out before release.
Design. Another masterfully done part of this game. Forget gritty medieval setting of previous games. Bloodborne is all about victorian England. Castles and dungeons have been replaced with cobbled streets of some twisted version of London. Everything looks abandoned and decayed like a city that suffers from a plague. Buildings are grim and unwelcoming, bonfires are lit in the middle of the streets and every surface looks like it's covered in a thin layer of grease. That can also be said about the enemies. No more demons in armor with swords and shields. Demons in Bloodborne wear trenchcoats, tophats and fight with rakes and pitchforks. Some of them are dressed as common villagers, others look more sophisticated, dressed in suits they attack the player relentlessly. Few of them wield actual weapons and those that do, use sabres (which were still in use in 19 century) instead of swords. The same design philosophy applies to the main character who looks like a cross between Abraham Van Helsing, a Renessaince plague doctor and Haytham Kenway from Assassin's Creed (albeit with a bigger hat).
Guns. Yup, actual guns. That use bullets. They take the secondary weapon slot and are fired at the nearest enemy (when autotargeting is on) or just in front of the player. Because guns in 19th century weren't that reliable they can't be used as a spam weapon. Just think of them as cooler looking spells. Something that aids You in combat but not the main weapon at least not in the section I played.
Weapon morphing. For that feature alone I'd buy that game. People who've seen the Gamescom demo know what I'm talking about. Every primary weapon has two forms, and the player is free to switch them as he sees fit. In gamescom demo the dev was using something akin to a razor that could be unfolded to create two handed weapon with lower speed but greater reach or used as a one handed sword-like thing. Bloodborne starts out with four characters to pick from and each of them has a different primary weapon. 



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



There is also a one handed sword with a striking face of a hammer kept on the player's back which can be connected together to form a heavy hitting blunt weapon, and a one-handed axe which can be extended into a halberd.


  

The cool thing about weapon morphing is that the player can switch between playstyles on the go, quickly going from agile to tanky character. It also looks cool as hell. And the player can switch between them in the middle of a combo. That is not a typo. By pressing L1 (morphing) during an attack chain, the player character changes his weapon in the middle of the attack and continues his combo with the second form. Entire system is very similar to the weapon switching in the latest Devil May Cry series. 
Audio. I played the game in Dolby Headphone and, well, it's there. The bonfires, the enemies, the obstacles, it all can be placed by the player around him. As far as the positioning gos it's good. Not Destiny or Call of Duty good but good. Nevertheless, the sound itself was great.
Difficulty level. Well, it's a From Software made game, whatdid you expect? Yes, it's merciless and it makes you pay for your mistakes but it's fair to the player. No homing missile style ******** no bigger than life hitboxes or unavoidable attacks. Exactly like the previous installments. One thing I did find rather weird and out of place was the amount of healing potions (now with their own separate button, Triangle) and bullets I found. I never actually ran out of bullets in spite of the fact that I used my shotgun fairly often, and I always had a potion just in case. Not something to be bothered about but kinda distracting from the experience.
  
  
 Sorry for my bad writing, that is not something I do often. Feel free to share Your thoughts.


----------



## inanimate

Anyone know how to get the Q701s with DSS2 to work with a external mic on PS4?


----------



## Fegefeuer

So after Tyll's Fidelio X2 review, who of you owners will make the jump?


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> So after Tyll's Fidelio X2 review, who of you owners will make the jump?


 
  
 Wow, that's a pretty hard core recommendation from Tyll.  If I hadn't just bought a $300 headphone, I'd certainly consider it.  I still might if I can get my hands on B-stock/openbox/etc.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Noticably better bass, better soundstage, treble detail etc. Seems Philips has been following head-fi very well. 
  
 This things need to be proven though by the community as well.


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> Noticably better bass, better soundstage, treble detail etc. Seems Philips has been following head-fi very well.
> 
> This things need to be proven though by the community as well.


 
  
 Not to mention removable pads and a better cable!


----------



## Sam21

just ordered one of these....
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMEM1-Headworn-Omni-Directional-Microphone/dp/B003D2S7HA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412381142&sr=8-1&keywords=headworn+microphone
  
 lotsa other types are there on amazon...


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> I mean... at this point it seems pretty clear that there's something wrong with your Boompro.  You've been talking about it for a week and nobody else is having any of the problems you've mentioned.
> 
> Get a cheap $5 mic off Amazon and test it with your Mixamp and you'll know in about 5 seconds if the problem is your Boompro or Mixamp.


 
  
 sigh. alright then. will do that.
 I'm just curious as to why then would the BoomPro work on my DS4 and Note3 perfectly? - the problem only occurs with the Mixamp
  


l00ease said:


> @ wilflare check out my post a few pages back, that should help with your mic issues, I had a similar one with the a40's mic extremely sensitive and ps4 wouldn't recognize commands (mixamp pro 2013)


 
  
 I think I found your post. could you explain again what exactly you did?
 so the mic goes into the Xbox Chat input?


----------



## Yethal

inanimate said:


> Anyone know how to get the Q701s with DSS2 to work with a external mic on PS4?


 
 Buy a Steelseries Audiomixer or a similar device from other manufacturer


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> So after Tyll's Fidelio X2 review, who of you owners will make the jump? :evil:




Il probobly end up buying it...if i sell my x1 soon..which will pay for some of it....that or ill just jump to an akg k712....

I feel like i must sell my other headphones  (ma900, a900x)


----------



## Evshrug

inanimate said:


> Anyone know how to get the Q701s with DSS2 to work with a external mic on PS4?




A desktop USB mic can plug straight into the PS4, so you wouldn't need additional adapters. I use a Blue Microphone Snowball iCE; it works great as I play on a monitor at a desk, though I've also used it in the living room placed on a table and Axel said he could hear me fine even though I was like 2.5 feet or so away. Another mic I was considering was a Samson portable USB mic, but the Snowball ended up being cheaper 2nd hand on eBay.


----------



## Sam21

Guys, I have a question, why is the Tritton decoder box not compatible with xbox one ? it works with PS4 but not with Xbox one ? can someone explain...


----------



## rudyae86

Well, the X1 has been sold to my friend..........its only a matter of time before my hands lay upon the X2
  
 muahahaha.
  
 I will miss thee x1, first headphone to get me into this incredible world of audio, which of i didnt know existed.....  I will miss thee but its new brother will cheer me up 
  
 As soon as I get my hands on one of the new X2, I will come here to give some feedback, although im still a noob, especially at explaining sound. I will do my best to test it out with my current set up with games....
  
 OMG i cant wait lol
  
 Im still buying an akg k712....at least i think I am unless other wise the X2 is good enough of a competitor against the k712, which it seems...from one of the threads i read here, he has told me that it may be just as good as the akg k712....
  
 Cant wait to read more reviews and comparisons against some of the other headphones out there. The X1 is still a great headphone, overall, but from what i have read, it seems they have fixed or made subtle changes to the sound, so I wouldnt be surprised if it gets ranked high up there with 8 and 9 rating headphones as well. Of course, numbers are a mere result and not conclusive on weather you like warm headphones or not.... I like them, and I think I will forever embrace warmth sound....
  
 Unless Im doing some harcore competitive FPS.....but since I like something thats in between nowadays.....more immersion while keeping clarity at the same time....
  
 I just wanted to throw this thought out thats all


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> So after Tyll's Fidelio X2 review, who of you owners will make the jump? :evil:




I might, once it drops under $250.


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> So after Tyll's Fidelio X2 review, who of you owners will make the jump?


 
  
 I'm thinking I'll try to get my hands on a pair for a demo when they come out, but not sure if I'll buy them.
  


change is good said:


> I might, once it drops under $250.


 
  
 Or until you get bitten with the bug as you have so many times in the past.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I might, once it drops under $250.


 
  
 If the sound is as balanced as Tyll makes it out to be, I don't know that you'll like it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks great, and seems to fix all the issues I had with it. A shame about it having less bass, though going by the graphs, is still on the bass side, with everything bassy after 30hz being at least on par with the mids and then emphasized, so it will still be quite full and deep. What bothers me is that Tyll says they still need more control. 

I'm sure it's still gonna be the headphone to get at the price range for all rounders.

And no guys, I'm not buying one. I'd like one, as my headset w/Boompro, but I'm not going to justify any more headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

Axel, I think I've been pretty bug-free for quite a while since I bought the HP200 

Stillhart, just because I'm a borderline basshead doesn't mean I don't like neutral/balanced HPs. My HP200 is neutral-ish, even with the alcantaras. I loved the Q701, K612, K712, SRH1840, HP100, etc. I'm pretty sure I'll love the X2. 

I have a wide variety of taste, so having a neutral HP to compliment my bassy one is a must for me.

MLE, not yet... but in due time you will


----------



## rudyae86

Well to late for me, they just came and picked up my X1.....bye bye x1, I love thee...got you for 165 bucks during that deal back in January....b :*( first expensive headphone I bought and got me here at head-fi....
  
 But I will be buying the X2, as an all around of what the x1 was, im sure the x2 will still be an all around headphone. 
  
 I know some are going to wait till the price drops and stuff...but since i got them for 165 and sold them for 200...i got a good deal and good use of the X1, the new owner will take care of them and actually have a better sound, now that they are fairly burned in.
  
 So, techinically, ill be paying the original price that the X1 was a few months ago or few days ago as well but now for an updated version...the x2. Plus all i have to put is the difference, which would be about 130 dollars more, thats all
  

  
 I just hope this will be the last headphone i will buy in a while....i hope.
  
 but probobly not lol
  
 BUT MLE
  
 you said that it has less bass....i thought that was one of the issues you had in your review of the x1...wouldnt that favor the x2 over the x1? and would increase its more competitive oriented score and maybe drop points in immersion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. I said the X1 needs better control of it's bass, not that it needs less.

As for me personally, some headphones give me mid bass fatigue. It doesn't even have anything to do with how
strong it is. For example, the Q701 gave me bass fatigue, while the Pro 900 didn't. The Pro 900 is a mid bass monster, yet the bass didn't bother me in the least. It has excellent control as well.

Something about the way bass hits my ears with certain headphones that irritates my ears. I would probably have problems with the X2 if the X1 is any indication.

As for scores, its headphone to headphone basis. The scores are subjective, and who knows, the X2 may fit my preferences better than the X1 and score the same or higher. Again, don't put all your stock on scores.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> No. I said the X1 needs better control of it's bass, not that it needs less.
> 
> As for me personally, some headphones give me mid bass fatigue. It doesn't even have anything to do with how
> strong it is. For example, the Q701 gave me bass fatigue, while the Pro 900 didn't. The Pro 900 is a mid bass monster, yet the bass didn't bother me in the least. It has excellent control as well.
> ...




Oh ok, must have misread that.

Yes, i dont base anything usually on numbers or scores. I like bass and dont have problem with it. Like you said, to some it may be bad but to some its good and welcomed.

Since I already sold my x1....im going to buy the x2 as soon as its available...

Im just glad the x2 has replacable pads. While my x1 were still in great condition, i noticed how they have slighlty started to slim down a bit...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I loved the X1. Most of the time, the bass didn't bother me. But you know ears change in sensitivity throughout the day, and there were times when I just couldn't wear the X1 for too long.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> I loved the X1. Most of the time, the bass didn't bother me. But you know ears change in sensitivity throughout the day, and there were times when I just couldn't wear the X1 for too long.


 
 I think my only complain about the x1 at first was that it would get hot after an hour of being on my head. But I guess, after that, if my games were getting interesting...i would forget about it.
  
 This was initially in the beginning...afterwards, I would say the pads started to get form around my ears, that it didnt get quite hot anymore and felt more ergonomic in a way.
  
 Compared to other headphones that i have (MA900, M50, PC350SE (headset)), the X1 was heavier but was usually noticable at first.....
  
 After a while, it was just forgotten....unless i played more than 3 hours straight...which I really dont do anymore lol
  
 Bass to me, never gets fatiguing, well the X1 bass at least but im sure any more or much more bass and I would get tired of it...
  
 Overall, the X1 sound signature was just great for me, almost perfect for my taste at least. The X2 without a doubt will give me the same plus a bit more, especially since Im not really wasting alot of money for them (sold my x1 for 200 a few hours ago) So I would say that the 130 additional dollars I will pay may seem to be worthy for an upgrade for what the X2 offers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Again, its not about quantity of bass that bothers me. The X1 has basically my ideal amount. Its about the way it hit my ears *personally*.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Again, its not about quantity of bass that bothers me. The X1 has basically my ideal amount. Its about the way it hit my ears *personally*.




Sorry, I meant to say it the way you said it...the way it hits, for me is good. I cant really complain, personally.

Sorry, typing this on my phone while walking around barnes and nobles with my cousin and uncle, had me distracted most of the time lol.

And the girls...


----------



## Stillhart

To me, the two biggest flaws with the X1 were the lack of bass control and the recessed mids.  Good amping helped the bass control but those mids... they weren't bad, but side by side with the Q's, it was just bad.  What I was looking for at the time was something with the best of both those headphones.  When I did the bass mod on the Q, it made the decision easy.
  
 I wonder if the X2 is going to be that best of both that I wanted...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bassy headphones with sparkly treble will always have recessed mids. Thats the definition of recessed. I haven't heard amodded Q, but if its bassy and mid rich, then the treble ain't gonna be sparkly like on the X1.


----------



## BigBadWulf

Hey Stillhart,
  
 I bought the Q701 one week ago. When I was not gaming I had them on the Amp/MP3 Player to burn in (~110 hrs).
 I did the Bassmod too, but somehow I feel, that the treble is now to aggressive and there is a little bit of increased graining (I think that's what it added too). Do you have the same experience? Maybe it will get better with the burn in, but if not I lost my chance to give them back.
 At the moment I think about to send them back and save some money to take the X2.
 On the other hand they seem to be a great mod platform, but for that I have to spend more money (ear pads, another Amp).
  
  
  
 What`s your opinion?


----------



## martin vegas

http://soundcloud.com/skimobeats/skimorecline A bit of music for you to listen to browsing these pages or watching people playing driveclub on twitch!!!


----------



## Sam21

can someone please tell me if this cable is compatible with mixamp : 
  
http://www.amazon.ca/Startech-Com-MUYHSMFF-Muyhsmff-Splitter-Adapter-M/dp/B004SP0WAQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## PixelSkills

sam21 said:


> [COLOR=252525]can someone please tell me if this cable is compatible with mixamp : [/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=FF4400]http://www.amazon.ca/Startech-Com-MUYHSMFF-Muyhsmff-Splitter-Adapter-M/dp/B004SP0WAQ/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top[/COLOR]




Sure is, but the mixamp comes with an included y cable


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> Hey Stillhart,
> 
> I bought the Q701 one week ago. When I was not gaming I had them on the Amp/MP3 Player to burn in (~110 hrs).
> I did the Bassmod too, but somehow I feel, that the treble is now to aggressive and there is a little bit of increased graining (I think that's what it added too). Do you have the same experience? Maybe it will get better with the burn in, but if not I lost my chance to give them back.
> ...


 
  
 If you did the bass mod, the treble should be less aggressive, not more.  What amp are you using?  Something dark/warm will pair really well with the Q to tame the treble.


----------



## Sam21

I just bought a used mixamp pro with no cables...and the cable on astro's website totals 45 bucks...so I was looking for a cheaper solution and came across this cable...anyway , thanks for your reply..


pixelskills said:


> Sure is, but the mixamp comes with an included y cable


----------



## Evshrug

BigBadWulf,
In general, the Q701 treble is better than cheap headphones when just plugged into a DAP, but I've found it to be much better controlled and unfatiguing once connected to a proper desktop amp. It's not about fixing a headphone's flaws... There's basically two types of headphones, ones that are really efficient and are designed to "max out" on a DAP or smartphone, and ones that probably have enough volume near the top of a DAP's limit but scale up in finess and control and dynamics once fed an "inefficient" amount of energy and headroom. Efficient headphones could sound more lively and dynamic too if fed that much energy, the problem is they would be too loud and distort at the same level as the better dampened headphones.

The AKG K/Q70x series are funny because their impedance is higher but relatively not that high, and their sensitivity is pretty low. So it's easier to get them loud enough, but an ideal amping situation is in the ability of an amp to deliver more current (to meet the sensitivity needs) while requiring only a little more voltage (to get enough volume to need the Ohm resistance needs). It'd doable, particularly with modern solid-state amps since tube amps have very high voltage output (which is why when I suggest tube amps, I usually suggest tube hybrids because they have the tube sound/tuning but a SS amp component to bolster the current output).

V= I * R


----------



## rudyae86

mmmm....
  
 I know some of us are wanting to buy the X2, as soon as it is released but something came to my mind during my lunch hour at work today...
  
 Why buy it right away when I could wait a month or 2 months and let the price drop.
  
 CCC shows that the X1 had a similar drop in price within a month or a month and a half until it actually stayed around the 300 dollar mark.
  
 the X1 price started to fluctuate alot after about or between 2 to 5 months after its release date, dropping to around the 250-260 dollar mark.
  
 I would suggest to just wait it out a bit longer. I personally will hold out, even though my X1s have a new owner and I do miss them much so....
  
 Its hard to game without out them .
  
 I know this thread is more about talking about the sound of headphones and virtual surround sound in general but I just wanted to let you guys know to....DO ALOT OF RESEARCH, PRICE WISE, PERFORMANCE WISE...ETC ETC.
  
 Im very picky about prices sometimes...or most of the time lol
  
 But since Black Friday is around the corner, well....its still like 2 months or less away but....
  
 Usually alot of sites have great deals during Black Friday for headphones in general....
  
 Except for the killer deal that happen on Jan 22 of this year...the X1 at 150 bucks...
  
 But im sure that deal can strike again, since X2 will be available soon on amazon.
  
 In other words....for those that were already been thinking about purchasing the X1, might as well hold out, especially if you are on a budget. The X1 at 150 or even up to 200....I feel like its a good price for what it offers. I mean, at that price, you really cant go wrong, especially if you are a newbie (like me) and wanting to learn more about this audiophile world which might hurt your wallet, even if you try to save by finding good deals on headphones lol
  
 The X2, i would say, if you have the extra money to go up to 300, then I really cant help you there because I guess when a new headphone is released, it really just depends on you if you really want to spend that much money to try something new. Especially if you are always saying like "Yes, NO, Yes, No....ok I will....no I wont" because if you hesitate alot and you are not sure you are going to like it, then it will become a hit or miss kind of thing....of course, theres the 30 day return policy but some people for some reason forget to keep track of time that sometimes that 30 day window is gone and you cant return it anymore....
  
 But since I sold my x1 yesterday, pretty much what I got back what I paid for it when I bought it....I should buy the x2, well feel like I should buy since the reviews i have read say it is better than the x1 and having to listen to the x1 for over 6 months, I can say that i will just be paying the price difference for that "upgrade" for better sound.
  
 Pheeew lol
  
 I know its long but it was just thinking about this for a good hour during lunch and I just wanted to post this for any new peeps that are thinking of purchasing a headphone within the coming weeks. its been almost a year since I started reading all these threads in Head-Fi and I feel like I should contribute a bit more since MLEs guide was the inspiration for me to actually really think...eerrr wanting to listen to better sound with better quality headphones. I have seen that there has been a growing amount of peeps hearing and wanting to try out Dolby headphone or SBX pro Studio or any type of virtual surround sound, which to me thats great, everyone has been missing out on great sound and the few that are still searching for the right headphone...keep looking and you will find it. I have found 2 already lol and ill probobly find a few more until I call it quits....for headphones that is lol and then start with amps and DACs.
  
 I know that technology will advanced even further but I feel like that the Headphones MLE has listed in this thread are all great headphones and are meant for different people with different taste. They are the common grounds so to speak.
  
 So all in all....just set your price range or what your budget is, then think about what kind of sound you want like more bass, better mids, etc etc, comfort and fit, adjustability or mod friendly ( like easy to attach a Boompro mic on an X1 or X2 for example) and select the headphones that fall within your needs and pic the one you think you will like the most...of course...nobody ever finds a perfect one and you are bound to keep searching but thats how it is here, well at least from what I learned. Theres just not an easy answer and the only answer you could be given from is from your ears. 
  
 MLE has also seperated a list where it list headphones more viable for competitive or for more immersion.
  
 I guess thats all I have to say for now.
  
 Have a good evening/night guys and sorry for the long post.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

Im trying to find a bluetooth 2.1 + EDR Device that will connect to a microphone and send voice chat to a bluetooth recieving device (2.1 + EDR) specifically


 Microphone (separate attachment via aux)  -> Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR Device -> PS4

 It mist be pretty small


----------



## Yethal

dementxusa said:


> Im trying to find a bluetooth 2.1 + EDR Device that will connect to a microphone and send voice chat to a bluetooth recieving device (2.1 + EDR) specifically
> 
> 
> Microphone (separate attachment via aux)  -> Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR Device -> PS4
> ...


 
 Creative E3


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

yethal said:


> Creative E3


 
 Holy crap! That thing is pretty cool tbh, does it actually worth with ps4/ps3? 
  
 also just another note, can i actually use it with a pair of Q701s with out an amp? (Just other questions)
  
 My main reason for this device tho is sending microphone voice to the ps4 so others can hear me, i will beable to hear them through my headphones tho (mixamp)


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Anyone know the exact date of the fidelio x2 release? Definitely getting them after watching tylls. Video on them


----------



## AxelCloris

doctacosmos said:


> Anyone know the exact date of the fidelio x2 release? Definitely getting them after watching tylls. Video on them


 
  
 No exact date has been made available, estimated November.


----------



## Evshrug

Anybody estimate/rumor a date on the Soundblaster X7?


----------



## Hailin

evshrug said:


> Anybody estimate/rumor a date on the Soundblaster X7?


 
 I am very interested in this since my mixamp just took a dump and astro doesn't want to support mixamp users. Lost a lot of faith in them. 
  
 Thanks for posting this Evs.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

Is the Creative Sound Blaster E3 Compatible with PS4 anyone? (Bluetooth)


----------



## Fegefeuer

Early December 2014


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

I am looking for a small bluetooth adapter that i can connect a MIC ONLY to and send the audio to a ps4, smaller than the Sound Blaster E3? Any Suggestions?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Anybody estimate/rumor a date on the Soundblaster X7?




I have been trying to find an answer to that as well...might be wrong but I think I read November? Not sure, but theres a website that has reviwed it already and gave an estimate on date...i think guru3d?


----------



## Fegefeuer

December is official


----------



## rovopio

hi @madlustenvy, youy mentioned on the ma90 review that 





> The thin size adjustment mechanism is pretty standard fare, if a bit too loose for my taste. There are no markers/notches,so if you're OCD about having both sides at exactly the same length, you may need a measuring tool of some sort.




i've got a small question to ask about ma900 build quality... where i live, imported goods are opened and checked by custom officers to determined their values. (manually not with x-ray sadly.)

i received my ma900 in an unsealed open box state. i have some minor issue about the headband size adjustment mechanism, and i'd like to ask if this is normal on all ma900 or i'm just a little unfortunate and got a lemon goods.

The right side of the headband i can extend just fine, it has a satisfying clicking sound while being extended (i can extend them 10 times), though a little loose.
The left side of the headband, when i extend, the clicking sound is barely there, and (within that 10 extension), on the 3rd to 6th extension part, it's very loose and smooth, the worst part is that, if i just hold it / or not in the state of wearing it, the left side extension couldn't hold my size adjustment (which is around 4th to 6th click) and keep dropping back on it's own to 2nd, or 1st length.

does the loose extension also happen to your ma900 as well?

secondly, the driver grip part on the L and R circular sign, when i pick up / even just barely touch the headphone right on the L and R sign, the left driver grip part (exactly on the L sign), it emit's a little clickety sound. it's as if it's just a little loose on gripping the driver itself so it can emit sound.

it's 2 fairly minor annoyances but i might have minor OCD so that doesn't help... do you have the same problem?

i have my doubts that custom officers when opening the box to inspect the goods value is destructive enough to cause these 2 problems... however, the box is all ripped out when i received them, and they didn't put them back properly. so i'm wondering abt it and ask here...


----------



## CptJeff

I just got my Schiit stack and two pairs of headphones to test out. DT990 Pros and Fidelio X1. After a few days with both, I feel the DT990s sound better to me. I am using the stock cable on the X1. The cable I ordered isn't large enough to plug into the Magni. Wondering if I should waste more money on another cable. I feel the X1 just doesn't feel as clean as the 990s.
  
 How comparable is the bass on the AKG 712 to the X1 and 990?


----------



## Gaszy

Hey Mad Lust this guide has helped me SO much with buying gaming/music headphones, one question have you tried the AURVANA LIVE! 2 ? If so thoughts?  I am looking at picking them up and a amp. Also I know this is asking a lot but could you recommend a good amp for them ?  I am kind of clueless about this stuff. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks again!


----------



## BigBadWulf

@Stillhart and Evshrug,
  
 thanks for your answers.
 I only use this one at the moment: http://www.ld-systems.com/en/signal-processing/hpa-4-headphone-amplifier-4-channel/
 But for testing I connected the Q701 direct at the Asus Phoebus and the Creative Z.
 It is really strange, because I think, the bass is better, the treble become more extreme and it feels like I need a little bit less power to get the maximum comfort gaming sound (It can be the higher trebles).
 What kind of good value for money amp would you recommend? Fiio E09? (max 150€)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've recently acquired some HE-400s. I also have Shure 1540 Alcantara pads AND Shure 1840 pads.

To make it as clear as possible:

Ditch the Hifiman velours, and go for the 1840 velours if you want a humongous boost in comfort. Sound remains relatively the same. the Shure 1840 pads are a gigantic leap in comfort over the stiff as hell velour pads currently sold.

As for the Shure 1540 Alcantara pads, they seem to be a lot like the newer Focus pads in that they're velour topped, with pleather innards, and they seal a lot more than standard velours. What this means for the 400 is that it's about a middle ground between the tightness and air of the velours, and the fleshed out warmth of the stock pleather pads, with less zing up top. Vocals sound more organic with the Alcanatara pads.

Overall, I'd say go for at LEAST the 1840 velours if you're used to the HFM velour sound. If you want very, very slightly less treble, and a fuller/slightly warmer sound, get the 1540 alcantara pads.

FWIH, the newer Focus pads don't have much inside room. Not a problem with the Shure pads.


As for me personally, I'm still debating on whether I stick to the Alcanatara or the Shure 1840 velours, since I like how the 1840 pads breathe, and i like how the 1540 pads make it a less fatiguing headphone if ever so slightly.

I noticed that the 1540 pads make the soundstage a little more intimate due to the more fleshed out sound. It's a subtle difference either way, and I haven't compared too heavily in this regard. I was mostly interested in what the pads did to the bass and treble. Less bass is unacceptable, and if they added treble, it'd be a fail as HE400 doesn't need any more. Thankfully, it's too close to tell in those regards, so I call both pads a success.

i DO need to note that my 1840 pads have had the screen removed, and I added the pleather's inner rings to give them a similar height to the hfm velours. The Alcantaras don't need anything, and I have left them untouched.

I DO wish to test out the 1840 pads with it's screen untouched, but I assume that will warm up the sound in a similar fashion to the 1540 pads.

Either way, I'm contemplating getting a fresh pair to test out. I'm also considering removing the screen off the pleather pads and sewing them onto the 1840 pads, for the sake of protecting the drivers.

Note that the Shure pads are oval shaped, so there will be a sort of orientation you're going to want when wearing them. I'd recommend sticking to the slight angle that Shure and Sennheiser tend to use with their headphones. A bit hard to see since the pads will become more circular on the Hifiman headphones, but it's there.











Bass on both is about the same as always.


----------



## Sam21

HE-400 is very shouty to me to the point where vocals become unbearable.. will the 1540 Alcantara pads help fix the loudness ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want to stress that the sonic changes with the Shure pads are subtle and that if you've had issues with the HE-400 sound before, I doubt that will change. The 1540 pads make it slightly less zingy up top and slightly more fleshed out, but it's still an HE-400. The pads here are more for sheer comfort boosts more than correcting the sound. If you want to fix the sound, EQ will still yield much more noticeable results.

Shouty? The HE-400 has recessed upper mids. Dunno how they can be shouty. But no, if you have issues with the 400, the pads aren't a magical fix.

All I want out of a pad swap for any headphone is to improve comfort without butchering the sound signature which tends to happen with pad swaps. The Shure pads retained the sonic flavor, which was just fine by me. If you want to change the sound, try to find some Modulor pads, which apparently fix a lot of the issues people have.


----------



## Monsterzero

X-post:sorry!
  
 hoping MadEnvy or someone else can assist here

 I am thinking of getting the Mixamp Pro for use with my PS3/PS4

 I already have a killer headphone setup Beyer T1+Senn 600>WooAudio WA2 and want to add a ModMic to them for gaming.

 Is there a way to connect the Mixamp to the WA2 (RCA ins only)?

 I hope somebody can provide a solution as I dont really want to plunk down for a gaming headset that will sound crappy in comparison to what I already own.

 Edit: Will these work and maintain the surround?

http://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-Feet-3-5mm-Stereo-Cable/dp/B000V0G2C4


----------



## Sam21

I don't know, My ears just don't like the HE-400...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can understand that. The HE400 is a love it or hate it headphone. I personally never had any issues with it, and it gave me the special planarmagnetic presentation of sound, which is unlike any dynamic headphone. It's tonality is...questionable, particularly the upper mid to treble transition. I won't deny that. I just find it's pros to outweigh it's cons, personally.

Kinda hard to go back to dynamics once you've gotten a taste of the planar magnetic sound. Kinda like going from an LCD/LED screen to a bonafide, high tier plasma (R.I.P you amazing tech, you).


----------



## CptJeff

sam21 said:


> I don't know, My ears just don't like the HE-400...


 
  
 I bought the DT990s and the X1s and haven't played around a ton with the mediabridge cable but I don't notice any real difference between stock cable and regular cable on the X1s and my wife and I both think the DT990s sound more clear than the X1s. The bass is a bit more powerful on the X1s but the 990s just seem quite a bit cleaner...and airy...er


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats because they are. The 990 is clear, sharp, and tactile. The X1 is a bit sluggish, but a lot easier to listen to. Its also a lot easier to drive. I recommend the X1 over the 990 due to less amping requirements and less polarizing sound. The 990 has on hell of a treble spike which a lot of people do not like.


----------



## Sam21

I find the dt990 to be very airy , the soundstage is also 3D like...I prefer it over HD598 or even HE-400...anyways ...
  
 I bought this mic : 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Pro-PMHM2-Omni-directional-Microphone-3-5mm/dp/B003D2U08E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1412709455&sr=8-4&keywords=pyle+omnidirectional
  
  
 AMAZING quality and VERY comfortable and light...could be used with any headphone....you have to adjust it when you first buy 
  it....it is bendable so you can adjust it to your head....my head is big and they fit perfectly....
  
 note that the picture on amazon.com is incorrect....the model is wearing it wrong...he has to flip it over...


----------



## Hailin

monsterzero said:


> X-post:sorry!
> 
> hoping MadEnvy or someone else can assist here
> 
> ...


 
 Yup that cord will work. There is a diagram somewhere on this forum on how to hook it up for mic use but i am much to lazy to look for it.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.twitch.tv/methodmax_rus


----------



## CptJeff

mad lust envy said:


> Thats because they are. The 990 is clear, sharp, and tactile. The X1 is a bit sluggish, but a lot easier to listen to. Its also a lot easier to drive. I recommend the X1 over the 990 due to less amping requirements and less polarizing sound. The 990 has on hell of a treble spike which a lot of people do not like.


 
 So should I look into other headphones at the moment. I bought a Magni Modi combo so I don't mind a pair that's harder to drive. Im about about 60% volume on the magni on the beyers and 40% on the X1s. 
  
 I really love the bass on the X1s. But I like the clear airy separation of the 990s. So I guess my answer is two phones?


----------



## RyanDJ1

Which headphone would you all say has the widest and most airy soundstage and better detail?
  
 HD598 or K712


----------



## Hailin

ryandj1 said:


> Which headphone would you all say has the widest and most airy soundstage and better detail?
> 
> HD598 or K712


 
 This is bound to lead to a fight. Though there are way to many AKG users on this post so it would probably sway that way. Though I would personally disagree and say the MA900. 
  
 I really have to update my profile. 
  
 Hey MLE are you going to grill mod your HE400's? I am also in the same court as you as far as the 400i vs 400. Doing a ton of reading I super disappointed in the 400i, specially from a soundstage aspect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've removed the grills before on my older ones, I didn't hear a significant improvement, at least not enough to butcher the looks of my 400 for DIY looks.

The airiest most detailed soundstage would be the K701 to me, as far as what I have personally heard. Then the AD700. the K712 is still on the warm side so it takes away from the clinical detail of the other AKGs. The HD598 has a nice soundstage, but it's more normal sized rather than huge or especially wide. it is pretty detailed however.

I think the best tradeoff for what you want, is the Q701, Ryan.


----------



## Evshrug

hailin said:


> I am very interested in this since my mixamp just took a dump and astro doesn't want to support mixamp users. Lost a lot of faith in them.
> 
> Thanks for posting this Evs.



Yeah, I bought a brand new A30 + Mixamp 5.8 bundle a while back from the Micro$oft store, good price but I loaned it to a friend who said the PS3 chat cable was DOA. Of course Astro stopped selling or supporting this cable before I got the bundle, but at least the MxAmp5.8 works as well as can be expected. I will say that they fixed the A30 that (on arrival) had the driver unmounted to the earcup, for free, pretty quickly, so I was happy about that (about the best functional result I could hope for) but somehow during the repair they deleted my product registration (how does that even happen?).

Creative support articles online can help with most general questions, but finding answers to specific things is kinda up to luck. I had someone emailing me and helping me with the Omni, support isn't perfect but OK for me. I'd hope that they have more premier tech support for a premier product like the X7.




fegefeuer said:


> Early December 2014



WOOT! Just enough time to save up/sell extra gear...




fegefeuer said:


> December is official



Shweet!




hailin said:


> This is bound to lead to a fight. Though there are way to many AKG users on this post so it would probably sway that way. Though I would personally disagree and say the MA900.


 Ah, I'd actually agree with you, the MA900 actually had a great combo of depth and imaging. I'd still pick an AKG as my "only" headphone because it's nearly as good and easily more engaging to listen to, better all-rounder use (music & gaming) headphones.

I didn't have the chance to compare the AD700 and MA900 side-by-side (and the original question didn't mention the AD700), but I was left with very similar impressions of the soundstage and imaging on each.


----------



## KingStyles

Is the mixamp pro + pc360 still close to the best option for surround on the xbone?


----------



## Yethal

kingstyles said:


> Is the mixamp pro + pc360 still close to the best option for surround on the xbone?


 
 Seems like Q701 is the new king in this thread


----------



## wilflare

something interesting just happened to my Mixamp and PS4
 there's no mic plugged in (I removed the Boompro)...
  
 the PS4 pops up the voice command dialog box (only happens if the command PlayStation is said) - guess there's something really off with my Mixamp unit


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Seems like Q701 is the new king in this thread




Lol, new.

I have recommended the Q701 the most since before I even came to Head-fi. The very first form of this guide was on Avsforum, back when I had almost nothing written about the headphones, save for a few lines.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, the Q was a crown I couldn't even wear as long as Jesus could


----------



## rovopio

evshrug said:


> Yeah, I bought a brand new A30 + Mixamp 5.8 bundle a while back from the Micro$oft store, good price but I loaned it to a friend who said the PS3 chat cable was DOA. Of course Astro stopped selling or supporting this cable before I got the bundle, but at least the MxAmp5.8 works as well as can be expected. I will say that they fixed the A30 that (on arrival) had the driver unmounted to the earcup, for free, pretty quickly, so I was happy about that (about the best functional result I could hope for) but somehow during the repair they deleted my product registration (how does that even happen?).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


what amp do you use for your akg q701 if i may ask?


----------



## NamelessPFG

I FINALLY got my ModMic today!

Didn't have time to try it out before work, though. It'll probably be attached to my MA900 when I return home.


----------



## wilflare

namelesspfg said:


> I FINALLY got my ModMic today!
> 
> Didn't have time to try it out before work, though. It'll probably be attached to my MA900 when I return home.


 
  
 would love to hear your reviews
 hmm has anyone tried attaching this to the X1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why, when the x1 can easily take the Boompro...

In fact, if i have to guess, i would PROBABLY be ecstatic about the X2/Boompro combo.


----------



## wilflare

hmm has anyone tried headphones with the WiiU
 my X1 is horribly soft with the WiiU gamepad


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Might need to attach an amp to the headphone jack of the Wii u controller. I dunno if the Wii U allows video through HDMI while sending audio through it's video out. I'd attach a headphone amp to the video out cable. Should be the cleanest audio signal out of the Wii U.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Might need to attach an amp to the headphone jack of the Wii u controller. I dunno if the Wii U allows video through HDMI while sending audio through it's video out. I'd attach a headphone amp to the video out cable. Should be the cleanest audio signal out of the Wii U.


 
 thanks! seems like with a recent firmware update, the WiiU allows multiple audio out (both AV+HDMI)
 guess I'll go look for an amp that allows for that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Any amp will. Just attach the video out cables from the Wii U to the amp's analog inputs. You may need an RCA to 3.5mm adapter for portable amps that don't have RCA inputs.

Not sure if you gain any benefit from using a virtual surround amp. Is the Wii U like the Wii in that it has Pro logic II?


----------



## G3org3

rovopio said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, I bought a brand new A30 + Mixamp 5.8 bundle a while back from the Micro$oft store, good price but I loaned it to a friend who said the PS3 chat cable was DOA. Of course Astro stopped selling or supporting this cable before I got the bundle, but at least the MxAmp5.8 works as well as can be expected. I will say that they fixed the A30 that (on arrival) had the driver unmounted to the earcup, for free, pretty quickly, so I was happy about that (about the best functional result I could hope for) but somehow during the repair they deleted my product registration (how does that even happen?).
> ...




I use the mixamp pro > schiit vali goes nice with the q701


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Not sure if you gain any benefit from using a virtual surround amp. Is the Wii U like the Wii in that it has Pro logic II?


 
  
 I can't confirm that yet (need to save up another $300-400 before my wallet gets destroyed on November 21), but knowing Nintendo, it probably does output Pro Logic II-encoded audio over the analog A/V-out if the audio output is set to the rather generically-named "Surround" in the system menu.
  
 It should be noted that the whole reason I want a virtual surround processor that accepts HDMI audio is the Wii U, and I'd prefer not to have the bulk of a whole A/V receiver with unused speaker amps if I can get away with it.
  
 Right now, my only option for that is the Smyth Realiser A8, and I don't think I need to explain how wallet-destroyingly prohibitive that one is between the staggering up-front cost and the fact that I need to make recordings with someone else's speaker system to properly use it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IIRC the Realizer does come with a default recording, so it's not useless out of the box. How good it is... that's up in the air. can't be much worse than something like Silent Cinema... I'm assuming.

At this point, my memory is hazy and I could be completely wrong.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Any amp will. Just attach the video out cables from the Wii U to the amp's analog inputs. You may need an RCA to 3.5mm adapter for portable amps that don't have RCA inputs.
> 
> Not sure if you gain any benefit from using a virtual surround amp. Is the Wii U like the Wii in that it has Pro logic II?




WiiU only supports LPCM 5.1 via HDMI. there's only Pro Logic II via Wii Mode.. 
http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1321/~/what-surround-sound-formats-does-the-wii-u-support%3F

I can technically connect the WiiU AV cables to the Mixamp right?


----------



## BigBadWulf

Well, the Burn in wonder works again.
 At around 100 hrs  of burn in I had extreme highs with my Q701 and I thought, that my Bassmod was the reason, but after another 60 hrs the mids are great. I is hard to believe for me, but I changed nothing. Is the AKG really that burn in affected? I mean, I was really thinking about to send it back, because it was terrible.
  
 Another point:
 Would it be possible to increase the center soundstage by changing the drivers angle? In the german forums I found the "Audeze Killer".
 They are debating about the truth, but I think that the Audeze Pads change the angle, so it changes a little bit to the front.
 The rear simulation of the Q701 is great, so it wouldn`t change it that much?!?
 In this thread you will see great pics of the earpadmod (the guy changed a lot more to get close to the Audeze).
 I am not that happy with the original earpads, so I think about the AKG K 702 Gel Earpad or a Audzepadmod. The price is close.
 The Leather would decrease the soundstage - correct?
 Just some thoughts...
  
 Link to the Mod: http://www.trinaural.de/vb3/showthread.php?p=163158


----------



## chuckle490

Guys I have a quick question, if I use an ODAC to O2 combo on my pc for gaming, can I still use the stock microphone input on my motherboard? I have been using my M-100 boom Mic combo straight from my soundcard and I am ready to upgrade to an external sound solution.


----------



## Yethal

chuckle490 said:


> Guys I have a quick question, if I use an ODAC to O2 combo on my pc for gaming, can I still use the stock microphone input on my motherboard? I have been using my M-100 boom Mic combo straight from my soundcard and I am ready to upgrade to an external sound solution.


 
 Yup, no problem with that.


----------



## chuckle490

yethal said:


> Yup, no problem with that.


 

 Thank you for your help!


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> IIRC the Realizer does come with a default recording, so it's not useless out of the box. How good it is... that's up in the air. can't be much worse than something like Silent Cinema... I'm assuming.


 
  
 There is a default PRIR, as they claim, but to me, just using that kinda defeats the purpose of spending the big bucks for the Realiser in the first place. You might as well just use a cheap Dolby Headphone processor if you can't or won't take advantage of the Realiser's signature PRIR feature.
  


wilflare said:


> WiiU only supports LPCM 5.1 via HDMI. there's only Pro Logic II via Wii Mode..
> http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1321/~/what-surround-sound-formats-does-the-wii-u-support%3F
> 
> I can technically connect the WiiU AV cables to the Mixamp right?


 
  
 Everything I've heard about the Mixamp suggests that, like the other Dolby Headphone processors, it's also a Dolby Pro Logic II decoder on the analog RCA inputs and Astro just doesn't do a great job of advertising that feature alongside the usual Dolby Digital decoding.
  
 You should be able to get some decent surround that way, though discrete LPCM would be preferable...wait a minute, PL2 ONLY in Wii Mode? You're stuck with stereo if you can't get an HDMI audio connection out of the Wii U?
  
 Urgh, this complicates things...


----------



## martin vegas

namelesspfg said:


> There is a default PRIR, as they claim, but to me, just using that kinda defeats the purpose of spending the big bucks for the Realiser in the first place. You might as well just use a cheap Dolby Headphone processor if you can't or won't take advantage of the Realiser's signature PRIR feature.
> 
> 
> Everything I've heard about the Mixamp suggests that, like the other Dolby Headphone processors, it's also a Dolby Pro Logic II decoder on the analog RCA inputs and Astro just doesn't do a great job of advertising that feature alongside the usual Dolby Digital decoding.
> ...


 

 You should try and get to a head-fi meet and have a listen to the realiser if you can, it beats everything else by a long margin..even as it comes with the stax headphones and headphone amp..i have a pioneer susano av receiver with s81 speakers and the realiser sounds better than it..mixamp and beyerdynamic headzone game don't come anywhere near my pioneer susano!


----------



## CptJeff

Currently fighting between keeping either the DT990s or the Fidelio X1 but I am thinking of lining up one more in the mix
  
 Been looking at the Anni or the 712 Pro to have a something a bit different to see which one I settle on. I don't want more than 1 can...maybe 2 eventually. The Anni and 712 are practically the same right?
  
 Also, on closed cans. Any ideas for something with good bass.
  
 The headphones I settle on are 80% games 20%music and movies
  
 All single player, non competitive but a good soundstage wouldn't hurt for immersion.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Hey Mad Lust i have had my headphones for some time now and I never got to tell you thanks for helping me choose them. Your review has been very beneficial and it also got me interested (and now addicted) to better sound. Thanks again


----------



## kayan

cptjeff said:


> Currently fighting between keeping either the DT990s or the Fidelio X1 but I am thinking of lining up one more in the mix
> 
> Been looking at the Anni or the 712 Pro to have a something a bit different to see which one I settle on. I don't want more than 1 can...maybe 2 eventually. The Anni and 712 are practically the same right?
> 
> ...




I have the anniversary AKGs, actually bought them off of MLE about 1.5 years ago. I'm wanting to get something with a bit more warmness. The annies are fantastic, but I just am craving something else. I think you'll likely love them. Let me know what you decide on.


----------



## Proxymanity

Hey guys, I was just wondering if I need to get a RCA connector to connect my MixAmp to my Fiio E9 or if I could just use a 3.5mm male cable.


----------



## Yethal

proxymanity said:


> Hey guys, I was just wondering if I need to get a RCA connector to connect my MixAmp to my Fiio E9 or if I could just use a 3.5mm male cable.


 
 3.5mm to RCA, regular E9 doesn't have 3.5mm in.


----------



## najs

Hello guys,
  
 I am looking for a headphones/headset that will do a good job in games. I can spend up to 220$. All I'm looking for is decent sound and very good positioning. I've bought ATH-M50 before I came here so you can imagine my pain 
  
 I was thinking about getting Sennheiser PC 360 and AKG k612 pro. I do not have a separated DAC, but is there any sound card (up to 150$) that could drive k612 pro without any problems?
  
 I have no experience in connecting high impedance headphones to the pc sound cards directly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kayan said:


> I have the anniversary AKGs, actually bought them off of MLE about 1.5 years ago. I'm wanting to get something with a bit more warmness. The annies are fantastic, but I just am craving something else. I think you'll likely love them. Let me know what you decide on.




HD650
HE500
LCD2?


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

This is my set up atm.

 This setup works beautifully, however sound quality is still not at its max considering the wireless 5.8 mixamp.
 I am waiting on the 2013 Mixamp Pro to come in the mail, heard the 2014 Mixamp pro makeover has less soundstage and is a marketing scam.
 Later i will be heatstrinking the wires of my microphone and headphone together once i obtain the stuff, but here is my setup atm. 

 The Q701 is beautiful i must say, completely destroys the a40s + 5.8 mixamp completely. 
  
 The only true con i find with these headphones is the headband, when i first bought these headphones, the headband hurt my head pretty bad, but now i can handle it and it feels great.


----------



## kayan

mad lust envy said:


> HD650
> HE500
> LCD2?




Hey MLE, long time. I'm looking for something with just a bit more bass response, even though the annies are awesome. I want a tad more. /shrug

My experience with Sennheiser is that while good, they are extremely technical, and not very fun. Are the hd600/650/700 different?


----------



## kman1211

kayan said:


> Hey MLE, long time. I'm looking for something with just a bit more bass response, even though the annies are awesome. I want a tad more. /shrug
> 
> My experience with Sennheiser is that while good, they are extremely technical, and not very fun. Are the hd600/650/700 different?


 
 The HD 600 and HD 650 are what I personally call lush and rich sounding. The HD 700 is quite technical.


----------



## martin vegas

Rate The Last Thing You Watched On Tv! Started a thread


----------



## BigBadWulf

dementxusa said:


> This is my set up atm.
> 
> This setup works beautifully, however sound quality is still not at its max considering the wireless 5.8 mixamp.
> I am waiting on the 2013 Mixamp Pro to come in the mail, heard the 2014 Mixamp pro makeover has less soundstage and is a marketing scam.
> ...


 
 Nice. Are you happy with your Fiio? I am not sure, if I should take this one or a Schiit Vali (which costs 40-50 € more in Europe).
 You can fix your headband by cutting three stripes of an PC Isolation mat and put it between the gaps.


----------



## Yethal

So, the only thing that's changed about the new mixamp are the white stripes under the balance knob? That's disappointing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7 will cost 399€ here in Europe, the Mixamp is 129€, almost half the price. Yet from the pure specs and expected performance (I have the SB ZxR which features practically the same ingredients as the X7) the Astro Mixamp is heavily overpriced.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> X7 will cost 399€ here in Europe, the Mixamp is 129€, almost half the price. Yet from the pure specs and expected performance (I have the SB ZxR which features practically the same ingredients as the X7) the Astro Mixamp is heavily overpriced.


 
 More like quarter of the price + shipping. Yes, the X7 is awesome and can do almost everything but it costs about the same as the PS4 I would connect it too. Also there is a new product called Mixamp m80, which by the looks ofit connects straigh to the xbox one controller through the proprietary ms port.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wait for the price drop. I'm not buying it for the 399€ either. 
  
 I can tell you from my experience with the ZxR that you'll also have plenty of fun with a headphone like HD 800. Can't say that about a lot "gaming" devices - driving the HD 800 to a good level. The Opamp of the ZxR and the X7 is an euphonic one. Punchy, plenty of impact, it's not reference grade but we're talking about a high level here where the Mixamp is already worlds behind..
  
 The ZxR is less clean than my DAC/AMP and has lesser resolution and will be a bit harsher in the highs, slighty lesser in the soundstage with it but it still renders the soundstage very well, and it punches and impacts with excitement (and costs a quater of it). Games and Movies are a f.......blast.
  
 The X7 having its own PSU should sound better and cleaner than the ZxR. Plus you can connect it to your PC and enjoy all SBX features through USB. 
  
 Ac3 only hurts a bit though....


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

bigbadwulf said:


> Nice. Are you happy with your Fiio? I am not sure, if I should take this one or a Schiit Vali (which costs 40-50 € more in Europe).
> You can fix your headband by cutting three stripes of an PC Isolation mat and put it between the gaps.


 
  
 FiiO E09K Review.
 Requires an audio component to auxilary 3.55m to to be compatible with most devices
 If your headphones does not come with an adapter, you will need to obtain one that looks like this

  
 I have used this device on my monitor and tv as it boosts the sound too. 

 This device has a (Gain) switch which greatly increases the sound output. (Which really powers my headphones to its fullest)


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

yethal said:


> So, the only thing that's changed about the new mixamp are the white stripes under the balance knob? That's disappointing.


 
 there have been reviews that the new mixamp is actually worse and is just a marketing scam, the old one has a bigger sound stage someone was claiming on the FB page of astro gaming. i didnt want to take the chances if it was true so im sticking with the 2013 edition. I also hear (rumor) that the real updated new line won't be seen till 2016.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

fegefeuer said:


> X7 will cost 399€ here in Europe, the Mixamp is 129€, almost half the price. Yet from the pure specs and expected performance (I have the SB ZxR which features practically the same ingredients as the X7) the Astro Mixamp is heavily overpriced.


 
 Does the X7 do the same thing as the Mixamp (connects to the ps4 and decodes 7.1 surround?)


----------



## Yethal

dementxusa said:


> there have been reviews that the new mixamp is actually worse and is just a marketing scam, the old one has a bigger sound stage someone was claiming on the FB page of astro gaming. i didnt want to take the chances if it was true so im sticking with the 2013 edition. I also hear (rumor) that the real updated new line won't be seen till 2016.


 
 Hopefully with HDMI and LPCM 7.1 decoding. And an acceptable DAC and amp sections.


----------



## Yethal

dementxusa said:


> Does the X7 do the same thing as the Mixamp (connects to the ps4 and decodes 7.1 surround?)


 
 It does that and a thousand other things better than the mixamp


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> It does that and a thousand other things better than the mixamp




And it cant come soon enough!


----------



## rudyae86

I will buy the x7 once it has dropped to the 250-300 dollar range. I mean...alot of creative labs stuff drops their prices up to 40% within a year or so.


----------



## Yethal

I'll probably just sell my entire current setup. Hard to believe how many devices become redundant once a behemoth like this is released.


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> I'll probably just sell my entire current setup. Hard to believe how many devices become redundant once a behemoth like this is released.


 
  
 seems like my recent investments would become useless too ><
 guess I should really hold off buying a Schiit Stack as well lol
  
 maybe I shouldn't bother with the ASTRO Mixamp at all ><
  
 ---
 anyone got thoughts on the Antlion ModMic vs the Boompro? tempted to buy a ModMic to try


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> seems like my recent investments would become useless too ><
> guess I should really hold off buying a Schiit Stack as well lol
> 
> maybe I shouldn't bother with the ASTRO Mixamp at all ><
> ...


 
 X7 will do everything the schiitstack and the mixamp would do. I really love my modmic but if You have headphones with detachable cable go for boom pro. Less hassle


----------



## kayan

wilflare said:


> seems like my recent investments would become useless too ><
> guess I should really hold off buying a Schiit Stack as well lol
> 
> maybe I shouldn't bother with the ASTRO Mixamp at all ><
> ...




I freaking love my ModMic. I actually have my original to my bro last year and bought the newest version a few months ago. Great quality all the way around. Love it. Have not used a bom pro though, not yet anyway.


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> X7 will do everything the schiitstack and the mixamp would do. I really love my modmic but if You have headphones with detachable cable go for boom pro. Less hassle


 
  
 which Modmic did you get? as in which version?
 I may end up getting one.
  
 hmm I have the Boompro but it feels kinda inadequate - wonder how the Modmic compares.
  
 I'm so tempted to get rid of my ASTRO Mixamp especially with all the issues I have with it (and the lack of customer support from ASTRO) and just save/wait for the X7


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> which Modmic did you get? as in which version?
> I may end up getting one.
> 
> hmm I have the Boompro but it feels kinda inadequate - wonder how the Modmic compares.
> ...


 
 4.0. Works like a charm. I even used it to record guitar and vocals.
  
 As for the comparison it's hard to say because I dod not try out the boompro
  
 Truth to be told we're all using mixamp mainly because of lack of anything better. Had I discovered this thread sooner I probably would've went with soundblaster recon 3d


----------



## BigBadWulf

dementxusa said:


> FiiO E09K Review.
> Requires an audio component to auxilary 3.55m to to be compatible with most devices
> If your headphones does not come with an adapter, you will need to obtain one that looks like this
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried it on a computer soundcard too?
 I would like to know, if it would increase the sound quality on a Creative Z or Asus Phoebus too?


----------



## crzycuyler

Hey guys, 
  
 I've got a $60 store credit to Best Buy, and currently the SLYR is $61.99 and the CAL! is $68.99. I am trying to decide between these two headphones. I doubt I'll ever use the microphone on the SLYR, so sound is really the only thing relevant when making my decision. When I searched the thread, I saw that Mad Lust Envy had at one time even preferred the sound of the SLYR to that of the CAL. I am wondering if this is still the case. The headphones will mostly be for *music *and *fun/immersing gaming *(hardly ever competitive, but maybe some). My current headphones are the KSC-75, which I am surprisingly fond of. 
  
*To anyone*: which of the two headphones listed would you choose considering my needs and taking into account that they are priced almost identically? If there is another headphone I am looking over at or around this price, let me know. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL is a pretty noticably better. I liked the Slyr because it's sound signature was more suited to my taste, and because I really like its pads. I can wear it all day. The CAL is very comfy, but it is pleather and it gets hot quickly.


----------



## crzycuyler

Cool. Thanks, MLE. I'll be ordering the CAL! in the next day or so.


----------



## Abula

Finally the Astro Mixamp 2011 arrived, and to my initial and very little testing, im happy, it works prefect with a PS4 connecting it via optical and usb, its the prefect combo with the X1 + Vmoda boomPro.  Initially i felt the X1 were a little shallow and not that fun, the bass was very light, but they have gotten a lot better with the MixAmp, at least to my subjective perception, the bass is more tight and present, and the details of the high are more upfront, probably among the best combos i have tested for gaming.  The X1 still not as fun as my Ultrasone Pro 900, but its getting there.
  
 The only thing i need to find out, is that in games like destiny the game sound can dominate the chat, i need to lower some the game sound or increase the chat audio, thats not possible with the mixamp as it increases or decreases everything, but i gotta play more with the PS4 settings, but


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

bigbadwulf said:


> Have you tried it on a computer soundcard too?
> I would like to know, if it would increase the sound quality on a Creative Z or Asus Phoebus too?


 
 i don't exactly know, but im sure it is likely to work with the appropriate cables.  Do not hold me on the answer though, because i am just guessing.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

if this legitally connects to ps4 and decodes the 7.1 surround, it sounds like something that would replace my fiio/mixamp setup to my AKG Q701


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

God... 

  

  
  
 the new mixamp sounds beautiful, a huge change for me. :O


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

abula said:


> Finally the Astro Mixamp 2011 arrived, and to my initial and very little testing, im happy, it works prefect with a PS4 connecting it via optical and usb, its the prefect combo with the X1 + Vmoda boomPro.  Initially i felt the X1 were a little shallow and not that fun, the bass was very light, but they have gotten a lot better with the MixAmp, at least to my subjective perception, the bass is more tight and present, and the details of the high are more upfront, probably among the best combos i have tested for gaming.  The X1 still not as fun as my Ultrasone Pro 900, but its getting there.
> 
> The only thing i need to find out, is that in games like destiny the game sound can dominate the chat, i need to lower some the game sound or increase the chat audio, thats not possible with the mixamp as it increases or decreases everything, but i gotta play more with the PS4 settings, but




 Go to the Ps4 audio settings, and change the headset to chat only. You can then use the voice/game knob of the Mixamp to change the volumes. Of course, I mean by having the chat cable between the PS4 controller and the Mixamp's controller input. I dunno how it works when using the voice chat from the Mixamp's USB, and not the controller.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Go to the Ps4 audio settings, and change the headset to chat only. You can then use the voice/game knob of the Mixamp to change the volumes. Of course, I mean by having the chat cable between the PS4 controller and the Mixamp's controller input. I dunno how it works when using the voice chat from the Mixamp's USB, and not the controller.


 
  
 would that setup actually eliminate the hiss? (if we were to plug that USB of the Mixamp into a separate power source as well)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamps hiss. It is embedded in the signal. You can take a million steps, the hiss will remain. Insensitive headphones/high impedance/low noise floor headphones will reduce the hiss to very low levels. I.e. very hard to hear hiss with the HE400.


----------



## cashmoney

Edit: Nvm. Did research which is both fun and educational!


----------



## Frank I

For those interested http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-t51i/  by Mad Lust Envy


----------



## DoctaCosmos

^nice


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Loved the font size and lack of diminutive and relatively untolerable link that are coded to consume most websites. Made for a truly palpable read.


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> Mixamps hiss. It is embedded in the signal. You can take a million steps, the hiss will remain. Insensitive headphones/high impedance/low noise floor headphones will reduce the hiss to very low levels. I.e. very hard to hear hiss with the HE400.


 
  
 I see. that's a real disappointment I guess. I've been reading of some cable by this guy (where he separates the data and power leads in the USB cable into two separate hates) and it supposedly removes the hiss in the Stream port or something.
  
 just got another set of ASTRO Mixamp Pro 2013 and Boompro to test
 - the issues remain, the voice commands are not recognized at all as the PS4 will say the voice is too loud when I've already adjusted the mic volume to its lowest
 - the Boompro works fine (voice commands get recognized) when plugged directly to the DS4
  
 I'm at this point where I'm inclined to just return the Mixamp and do without it until the X7 come and I buy one (use my Fidelio X1 normally for now or go back to my PULSE Elite Wireless if I really desire that surround sound).
  
 oh well - decisions


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> I see. that's a real disappointment I guess. I've been reading of some cable by this guy (where he separates the data and power leads in the USB cable into two separate hates) and it supposedly removes the hiss in the Stream port or something.
> 
> just got another set of ASTRO Mixamp Pro 2013 and Boompro to test
> - the issues remain, the voice commands are not recognized at all as the PS4 will say the voice is too loud when I've already adjusted the mic volume to its lowest
> ...


 
 That's a mic issue and not the mixamp. I use the modmic and ps4 recognizes the voice command perfectly (perfectly as in "despite my eastern european accent")


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> That's a mic issue and not the mixamp. I use the modmic and ps4 recognizes the voice command perfectly (perfectly as in "despite my eastern european accent")


 
  
 it's my second set of Boompro and Mixamp :/ unless there's something inherently wrong with the Boompro that causes that issue :/


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> it's my second set of Boompro and Mixamp :/ unless there's something inherently wrong with the Boompro that causes that issue :/


 
 Try the mic calibration option, and then voice commands.


----------



## Sam21

The reason the mixamp has hiss is because the microphone's sound is mixed with the game sound...the microphone has noise and the mixamp first amplifies it and then mixes it with the game sound....amplified noise == louder noise...try connecting your microphone to a pc and raise the Mic's volume to the maximum...then use the sound recorder in windows to record...just record without saying anything...then listen to it...it has a noticeable noise...
  
 therefore, mixamp is not at fault here...it is the poor microphones that we use...don't want noise in mixamp ? use a super duper low noise microphone that would probably cost 1 grand or more....


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> Try the mic calibration option, and then voice commands.


 
  
 I tried. it's turned down to its lowest on both sets of Boompro - the problem persists.
 tried another Mixamp - the problem also persists :/
  
 the only option I haven't tried is to connect the Xbox/Controller port to the DS4


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> I tried. it's turned down to its lowest on both sets of Boompro - the problem persists.
> tried another Mixamp - the problem also persists :/
> 
> the only option I haven't tried is to connect the Xbox/Controller port to the DS4


 
 Try plugging theUSB cable to Your PC and see how that will sound


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> Try plugging theUSB cable to Your PC and see how that will sound


 
  
 I'll give that a try - it's the only thing I have yet to test.
  
 the X7 can't come soon enough. that would really be a solid All-in-One solution
  
 / why is FiiO not entering this market


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> I'll give that a try - it's the only thing I have yet to test.
> 
> the X7 can't come soon enough. that would really be a solid All-in-One solution
> 
> / why is FiiO not entering this market


 
 There was a petition for fiio to make a DSP like Mixamp but with much better quality components and more features but they shot id down due to development and licensing costs.


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> There was a petition for fiio to make a DSP like Mixamp but with much better quality components and more features but they shot id down due to development and licensing costs.


 
  
 I see. oh well. guess we really have to look to Creative for the answer.
  
 I'm actually pretty tempted to get an Antlion ModMic to see if it is any better than the Boompro
  
 and I'm curious to see how many people will sell their setup/Mixamp when the X7 turns up


----------



## Abula

mad lust envy said:


> Go to the Ps4 audio settings, and change the headset to chat only. You can then use the voice/game knob of the Mixamp to change the volumes. Of course, I mean by having the chat cable between the PS4 controller and the Mixamp's controller input. I dunno how it works when using the voice chat from the Mixamp's USB, and not the controller.


 
 Thanks for the reply Mad, i had it already to chat only, for some reason the knob that says game/voice, i thought it was a microphone boost.... but you are right, as soon as i started to play with it, it did exactly what i was looking, it balanaces the chat and game, and now its prefect, i no longer have the game overpowering the chat =)
  


mad lust envy said:


> Mixamps hiss. It is embedded in the signal. You can take a million steps, the hiss will remain. Insensitive headphones/high impedance/low noise floor headphones will reduce the hiss to very low levels. I.e. very hard to hear hiss with the HE400.


 Is the hiss present with all MixAmps? personally i dont hear it on my combo, Mixamp2011 + Phillips X1 + Vmoda Boompro, or maybe i dont hear that well anymore =)

  


wilflare said:


> and I'm curious to see how many people will sell their setup/Mixamp when the X7 turns up


 
 Its way to expensive to the direct competition, im planning on getting one for sure, but not to replace my PS4 mixamp setup, but for my PC for not using a PCIe slot and going SLI.  I honestly think for what you can get an used mixamp, its more than fair for a good setup for the PS4.


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> I see. oh well. guess we really have to look to Creative for the answer.
> 
> I'm actually pretty tempted to get an Antlion ModMic to see if it is any better than the Boompro
> 
> and I'm curious to see how many people will sell their setup/Mixamp when the X7 turns up


 
 Most of them. It is pricey but if I manage to sell my entire setup I should be able to afford it with ease. One device instead of four, better quality overall (better than mixamp, not sure how it compares to Modi) and the ability to connect passive speakers trumps anything Astro can offer.
  
 As for the Modmic, there are no downsides to this product as far as the quality goes. I've seen some pople attaching it permanently to their headphones and putting both cables in a sleeve to make it look nicer. Might try that one day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 2011 Mixamp has the least hiss of all Mixamps with usb chat capabilities. The 1st gen Mixamp is the most silent, but no usb chat.

*Updated the guide with the t51 link to headphone.guru for the full review with basic scoring on the guide, since I know how you guys love to not read anything but scores. :angry_face:.*


----------



## Reckless95

yethal said:


> Most of them. It is pricey but if I manage to sell my entire setup I should be able to afford it with ease. One device instead of four, better quality overall (better than mixamp, not sure how it compares to Modi) and the ability to connect passive speakers trumps anything Astro can offer.
> 
> As for the Modmic, there are no downsides to this product as far as the quality goes. I've seen some pople attaching it permanently to their headphones and putting both cables in a sleeve to make it look nicer. Might try that one day.




The only bigger debate is if you like SBX over DH. I just bought the ZxR and i much prefer it over DH now anyways although i cant use it atm as I'm waiting for these gtx 970s to come in stock already :rolleyes:

I also prefer USB mic that sits on my desk


----------



## muksuluuri

I came across discounted Fostex TH600, US$424 / £265 for a brand spanking new set; would it be a gross crime against everything that is pure and holy to NOT buy these at this price? The projected use would be 90% pc-gaming with an occasional movie thrown in for good measure. My current banger is Qpad QH-1339 aka Beyer MMX-300; surely the TH600 would be an upgrade? I'm driving the Qpads straight from Soundblaster Z's "amplified" headphone-out but could consider adding a dedicated amp to the loop.

There's also Fidelio X2 going for around the same price but I'm more drawn to the Fostex; am I doing my ears a potential disservice?


----------



## wilflare

abula said:


> Thanks for the reply Mad, i had it already to chat only, for some reason the knob that says game/voice, i thought it was a microphone boost.... but you are right, as soon as i started to play with it, it did exactly what i was looking, it balanaces the chat and game, and now its prefect, i no longer have the game overpowering the chat =)
> 
> 
> Its way to expensive to the direct competition, im planning on getting one for sure, but not to replace my PS4 mixamp setup, but for my PC for not using a PCIe slot and going SLI.  I honestly think for what you can get an used mixamp, its more than fair for a good setup for the PS4.


 
  
 is the PS4 able to recognize all your voice commands with your setup? any issues?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

muksuluuri said:


> I came across discounted Fostex TH600, US$424 / £265 for a brand spanking new set; would it be a gross crime against everything that is pure and holy to NOT buy these at this price? The projected use would be 90% pc-gaming with an occasional movie thrown in for good measure. My current banger is Qpad QH-1339 aka Beyer MMX-300; surely the TH600 would be an upgrade? I'm driving the Qpads straight from Soundblaster Z's "amplified" headphone-out but could consider adding a dedicated amp to the loop.
> 
> There's also Fidelio X2 going for around the same price but I'm more drawn to the Fostex; am I doing my ears a potential disservice?




I would dive in head first for the TH600 at that price. No question.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I would dive in head first for the TH600 at that price. No question.


 
  
 +2. If it's a legitimate TH-600, $425 is a no-brainer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Axel, did you get to hear the Prime at RMAF?


----------



## AxelCloris

I did, on a couple of different setups. It sounded wonderful off of the Cavalli Liquid Crimson and I was very impressed with it off of the Geek Pulse. But I'm not sure it's worth a $400 upgrade to me, I have to spend more time on that thought. Afterall, add another $100 and I could snag an HE-400i.
  
 Speaking of, the 400i has improved since I heard it back in the spring. I quite like the new, more refined sound. Cymbals aren't harsh anymore and the bass seems to have been tamed slightly, bringing it more in line with my tastes. And the Oppo PM 1 and 2 no longer sound too laid back with the new pads. Again a nice improvement.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Now, if one of us can just hear the TH500RP...


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> Try plugging theUSB cable to Your PC and see how that will sound


 
  
 I tried a different USB cable. nothing works.
 it's just weird after two sets of Mixamps and two sets of Boompros - the issue remains (that the PS4 can detect my "PlayStation" command but anything else is too loud for it to catch)


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Now, if one of us can just hear the TH500RP...


 
  
 Who says I didn't?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah. AH. WHALE THEN. HOW WAS IT?


----------



## Reckless95

sam21 said:


> The reason the mixamp has hiss is because the microphone's sound is mixed with the game sound...the microphone has noise and the mixamp first amplifies it and then mixes it with the game sound....amplified noise == louder noise...try connecting your microphone to a pc and raise the Mic's volume to the maximum...then use the sound recorder in windows to record...just record without saying anything...then listen to it...it has a noticeable noise...
> 
> therefore, mixamp is not at fault here...it is the poor microphones that we use...don't want noise in mixamp ? use a super duper low noise microphone that would probably cost 1 grand or more....




Still get hiss with a USB mic. Your theory is off.


----------



## Abula

wilflare said:


> is the PS4 able to recognize all your voice commands with your setup? any issues?


 
 Not really tested much, i just got the mixamp this week, but atm is recognized by ps4 as a usb chat device (to what i understand), and have no issues that i have no notice, everything is working to what i know.  If you tell me what you want to test ill do it.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Ah. AH. WHALE THEN. HOW WAS IT?




+1.
I am also kinda curios about the Kingsound planars. There hasnt really been much info about them, though I perhaps remember reading one praising review and one criticizing it


----------



## wilflare

abula said:


> Not really tested much, i just got the mixamp this week, but atm is recognized by ps4 as a usb chat device (to what i understand), and have no issues that i have no notice, everything is working to what i know.  If you tell me what you want to test ill do it.


 

 can you give the voice commands a test?
 for example
 go to the upper row of icons on your PS4
 Say: PlayStation (a popup should appear)
 Say: Home Screen (should drop you back down)*
  
 *For me, the PS4 cannot catch "Home Screen" command when I connected the Mic to the Mixamp, stating that my volume is too loud (and I have it set to the lowest). This works fine when the Mic is plugged directly to the DS4 though (and no such issue with my previous Wireless Pulse Elite headset).
  
 and to clarify, did you plug the mic/controller input on the Mixamp to the DS4?


----------



## Sam21

reckless95 said:


> Still get hiss with a USB mic. Your theory is off.


 
 doesnt matter if the mic is USB or not, Do you get hiss when you only use a headphone(no mic) with the mixamp?


----------



## Reckless95

sam21 said:


> doesnt matter if the mic is USB or not, Do you get hiss when you only use a headphone(no mic) with the mixamp?




Yes.


----------



## Reckless95

abula said:


> Not really tested much, i just got the mixamp this week, but atm is recognized by ps4 as a usb chat device (to what i understand), and have no issues that i have no notice, everything is working to what i know.  If you tell me what you want to test ill do it.




It's suppose to be... That's what the USB on the mixamp is for. It can't send it through the optical


----------



## Frank I

conquerator2 said:


> +1.
> I am also kinda curios about the Kingsound planars. There hasnt really been much info about them, though I perhaps remember reading one praising review and one criticizing it


 
 we did a review on headphone.guru of the Kingsound


----------



## Thrillseeka

Hi all,
  
 I have been a lurker on this forum for a long time now but you have to now that I am so grateful for all the things you all thought me about audio.
 Especially @Mad_Lust_Envy for creating and maintaining this extensive guide.
  
 A couple years ago I had to find a way to get good sound without upsetting my wife an neighbors.
 After a quick Google search I came across this thread and months of reading and headaches followed.
 I settled for the Astro mixamp 5.8 and a Creative Aurvana Live and I had served me well for almost a year.
 The poor build quality and the fact that kids use my stuff from time to time, did not made the CAL survive longer.
 I still got the CAL in the hope I will get the guts one day to solder a new cable to it.
 The AT AD900X have been the replacement ever since.
  
 I own both the 360 and PS3 but I never played online on the PS3.
 The biggest reason why I switched from 360 to the PS4 is the cable between the Mixamp Rx and the controller.
 It was shocked that this still was a thing in 2014. Especially because the PS3 had superb Bluetooth support.
 I was convinced that Sony wouldn't let these simple features untouched and would release an update soon.
 But I've had the console for 3 months now and the updates have been meaningless.
 After spending more time researching I was convinced that the discontinued Astro PS3 USB chat cable would solve my problems.
 That was more difficult than expected. These cable were going for £30 in Ebay Auctions.
 I managed to win one but it was with 2x Mixamp 5.8. So I'm having the privilege of owning 3 complete setups now and a angry wife.
 At least I got the USB-3.5mm cable so I could chat without being tethered to the controller.
 But I think it is not meant to be.
 The PS4 is recognizing the cable as a headset but I fail to get any chat audio through the headphones.
 It is working with the TB PS4 chat cable but not with the Astro PS3 usb chat cable.
  
 Is there any way I could check if there is actually audio coming from the PS4 usb port to the Mixamp TX?
 I have changed all setting to the ones that have been listed on this forum but I fail to get any chat audio.
 Do I need to add anything to my setup?
 Really hope that some can find the time to help me to get it working as it should.


----------



## Yethal

thrillseeka said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been a lurker on this forum for a long time now but you have to now that I am so grateful for all the things you all thought me about audio.
> Especially @Mad_Lust_Envy for creating and maintaining this extensive guide.
> ...


 
 Dude, just buy ps4 chat cable (4 pole minijack to the controller, 2.5 microjack to the mixamp (like the xbox uses)


----------



## Thrillseeka

Hi mate , thank you for your reply. 
 I own the cable that you are talking about and this is how i have been using it for now
 Hope you don't think I'm a nag but I get so fed up with being connected to the controller.
 I was doing that 10 years ago , was hoping to get rid of that this day and age.
 The little time I spend chatting on the PS3 , I use the official PS3 Bluetooth Headset.
 It even had a little stand so you could use it while it was charging on your desk. I thought it was brilliant.
 But without any reason that I can think of , they dropped the support of their own peripherals.
 It most likely the fact that they want you to buy their licensed PS4 accessories.   


yethal said:


> Dude, just buy ps4 chat cable (4 pole minijack to the controller, 2.5 microjack to the mixamp (like the xbox uses)


----------



## Yethal

thrillseeka said:


> Hi mate , thank you for your reply.
> I own the cable that you are talking about and this is how i have been using it for now
> Hope you don't think I'm a nag but I get so fed up with being connected to the controller.
> I was doing that 10 years ago , was hoping to get rid of that this day and age.
> ...


 
 Not really, bluetooth headsets work with the PS4 after the 1.5 fw update. As for the Astro TX, it doesn't do chat audio via usb as far as I know


----------



## Abula

wilflare said:


> and to clarify, did you plug the mic/controller input on the Mixamp to the DS4?


 
 No, the PS4 is connected to the MixAmp via USB for the chat, and the Optical for the Audio.  I don't connect anything to my ps4 controller.
  
 Ill try the commands you requested tomorrow or saturday, im on the road for couple of days.


----------



## Toxos

Hmm I saw that a new astro mixamp pro has come out (the 2015 model). I wonder how that compares to the older mixamps...? I need a solution for my pc360's to incorporate them into my ps4 since I am sooo tired of the mono with in line mic!! And my tv speakers are not the best lol.


----------



## benbenkr

Here to tell you guys, if you want another game with great surround cues, look no further than The Evil Within. The game has its faire share of flaws, but hot damn did Mikami got the sound design right.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Yeah the new astro m80 wireless approach of the m80 is sick.


----------



## wilflare

yethal said:


> Dude, just buy ps4 chat cable (4 pole minijack to the controller, 2.5 microjack to the mixamp (like the xbox uses)


 
  
 where can you get this chat cable?


----------



## Toxos

I meant the new Mixamp pro, not the Mixamp m80 since I believe that one is the attachment for XBOX one users, and the pro is for ps4/ps3/pc/xbox 360 (if I remember correctly). You can get the M80 on the astro website although I think it comes with the A40's
  
 EDIT: Not for the Xbox 360 I guess...


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> where can you get this chat cable?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-PS4-Chat-Cable-NEW-IN-STOCK-PS4-FREE-SHIPPING-/171502711553?pt=US_Video_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item27ee5bb301


----------



## Reckless95

yethal said:


> Not really, bluetooth headsets work with the PS4 after the 1.5 fw update. As for the Astro TX, it doesn't do chat audio via usb as far as I know




You're right, it doesn't do chat through USB.



thrillseeka said:


> Hi mate , thank you for your reply.
> I own the cable that you are talking about and this is how i have been using it for now
> Hope you don't think I'm a nag but I get so fed up with being connected to the controller.
> I was doing that 10 years ago , was hoping to get rid of that this day and age.
> ...




The 5.8 Mixamp is old. I had that 4 years ago and it was just before they stopped selling them....


----------



## Toxos

Anyone have a good external soundcard for use for PC gaming AND ps4 gaming? I currently own pc360's (maybe pc350's soon for LANs) I keep hearing (pun intended) mixed feelings about mixamps and the Asus Xonar U7 or U5. I had a U3 and I ripped it out accidentally when my new PSU arrived at the door... TOO EXCITED.


----------



## Reckless95

sam21 said:


> doesnt matter if the mic is USB or not, Do you get hiss when you only use a headphone(no mic) with the mixamp?




Yes. The hiss is still there.


----------



## Reckless95

toxos said:


> Anyone have a good external soundcard for use for PC gaming AND ps4 gaming? I currently own pc360's (maybe pc350's soon for LANs) I keep hearing (pun intended) mixed feelings about mixamps and the Asus Xonar U7 or U5. I had a U3 and I ripped it out accidentally when my new PSU arrived at the door... TOO EXCITED.




Edit never mind you said external :rolleyes:

I use my SB ZxR. Optical into the card. On the pc you make the optical play to your headphones.


----------



## Toxos

Whoa that looks interesting... I need to look into how to hook all that stuff up though. I have a sabertooth z77 Mobo with 2 gtx980's on the way so fitting in one of these might be a bit tough! 
  
 EDIT: Woops... didn't see your edit haha I will wait for another answer then


----------



## Reckless95

toxos said:


> Whoa that looks interesting... I need to look into how to hook all that stuff up though. I have a sabertooth z77 Mobo with 2 gtx980's on the way so fitting in one of these might be a bit tough!
> 
> EDIT: Woops... didn't see your edit haha I will wait for another answer then




It only needs a single PCIE slot (1x, the smaller ones). The daughter board is just connected via a ribbon. I've been meaning to make a guide for the board but i sold my 770 to a friend so I've been waiting for a 970.... Canada's sold out of the EVGA ACX 2.0... :mad: 

Judging by the picture you'd be able to fit it no problem. You could easily plug it into either the 16x slot or the 1x and still have the 2 980s in the first 2 slots. Ive also seen people put their gpus down lower and run their sound card at the top. If I missed anything or you want to know something else just ask


----------



## Evshrug

thrillseeka said:


> Hi mate , thank you for your reply.
> I own the cable that you are talking about and this is how i have been using it for now
> Hope you don't think I'm a nag but I get so fed up with being connected to the controller.
> I was doing that 10 years ago , was hoping to get rid of that this day and age.
> ...




I hear ya Thrillseeka!
I always wondered, and renewed curiosity now that you mentioned the PS3 BT headset that you could use with a charging stand, how do you use a Bluetooth thing like that for chat microphone and still get game and chat audio through headphones/speakers?
My Mixamp 5.8 has been gathering dust for precisely this issue. As Stillhart has told me many times, I love communicating while gaming (makes it feel more like hanging out with friends), and I didn't want to wire to my controller... Seems to defeat the freedom of a wireless controller IMO, and the battery life of the DS4 is much shorter than with my 360 controllers anyway.

So, yeah, the TB cable would've been way cheaper, but I ended up giving up on wireless audio (still have a wireless controller) and bought a Snowball iCE usb microphone by Blue Mics for about $35 (US$) used on eBay. PS4 recognized the mic plug-and-play, and all forms of audio go through the Optical Out (and HDMI, I have my monitor set for 0 volume).


If I can convince myself to sell some redundant gear, I'll probably end up picking up Creative's X7


----------



## Toxos

reckless95 said:


> It only needs a single PCIE slot (1x, the smaller ones). The daughter board is just connected via a ribbon. I've been meaning to make a guide for the board but i sold my 770 to a friend so I've been waiting for a 970.... Canada's sold out of the EVGA ACX 2.0...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hmm... that card(s) looks nicee but yeah I still would need something to hook up to my ps4 as well. I found that maybe the Asus Xonar U7 or the creative HiFi HD something or other might work too! But I am not sure how those work with the output of the ps4 and the pc. I just want the best sound! GAHH!
  
 EDIT: X-Fi HD lol woops... I was kinda close xD


----------



## Amalz

Do you guys recommend me HD 800 with a gaming/music/movie?


----------



## wilflare

reckless95 said:


> It only needs a single PCIE slot (1x, the smaller ones). The daughter board is just connected via a ribbon. I've been meaning to make a guide for the board but i sold my 770 to a friend so I've been waiting for a 970.... Canada's sold out of the EVGA ACX 2.0...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 hmm does the Optical IN on your ZxR accept surround sound? or will it only process 2.0? that's what is stopping me from connecting my PS4 to my Zx
  


evshrug said:


> I hear ya Thrillseeka!
> I always wondered, and renewed curiosity now that you mentioned the PS3 BT headset that you could use with a charging stand, how do you use a Bluetooth thing like that for chat microphone and still get game and chat audio through headphones/speakers?
> My Mixamp 5.8 has been gathering dust for precisely this issue. As Stillhart has told me many times, I love communicating while gaming (makes it feel more like hanging out with friends), *and I didn't want to wire to my controller... Seems to defeat the freedom of a wireless controller IMO, and the battery life of the DS4 is much shorter than with my 360 controllers anyway.*
> 
> ...


 
  
 same issue here >< seems like having that is the only way I can have mic without volume issues (or recognition issues with voice commands)


----------



## Reckless95

wilflare said:


> hmm does the Optical IN on your ZxR accept surround sound? or will it only process 2.0? that's what is stopping me from connecting my PS4 to my Zx
> 
> 
> same issue here >< seems like having that is the only way I can have mic without volume issues (or recognition issues with voice commands)




It takes the 2.0 but you use SBX from the pc and set the pc to 5.1. You can set SBX to 100% which will give you the virtual 7.1 aswell. Or as i like to say 7.0.. If you want optical out aswell it will encode 5.1 DDL and DTS

To be honest with you guys that are using the 5.8 mixamp, what do you expect. What year did that come out and youre complaining about a wire thats probably 32 gage. :rolleyes: Must just be me though. I'm more worried about the quality of the game then a single wire, most games coming out are terribly optimized for pc and console....


----------



## Toxos

I am getting the feeling that between the Mixamp Pro 2015, Xonar U7 or U5, Creative stuff, that the mixamp will be the best choice for ps4 and pc gaming? I used to have the asus U3 a while back until I stood up too fast and ripped out the usb connection out of it lol


----------



## burritoboy9984

FWIW, after messing around with the new DTS X headset from Turtle Beach for brief time last night, I can't wait until their mixamp alternative comes out.


----------



## Toxos

burritoboy9984 said:


> FWIW, after messing around with the new DTS X headset from Turtle Beach for brief time last night, I can't wait until their mixamp alternative comes out.


 
 Was it ear opening?! Just getting a feel for whats out there as i have decent headphones but still always learning


----------



## burritoboy9984

toxos said:


> Was it ear opening?! Just getting a feel for whats out there as i have decent headphones but still always learning


 
  
 It is still too early to say how much of an improvement over DH it is, but initially, I know I liked it better. Keep in mind the headphones I was using aren't the best (Stealth 500P). I was using a Mixamp plugged into the mobile port on the headphones to A/B DH and DTSX. In the past, the most competitive were open cans which gave a large soundstage. With Headphone X, I'm not sure that is still going to be a requirement. Regardless, it is an exciting time.


----------



## Toxos

burritoboy9984 said:


> It is still too early to say how much of an improvement over DH it is, but initially, I know I liked it better. Keep in mind the headphones I was using aren't the best (Stealth 500P). I was using a Mixamp plugged into the mobile port on the headphones to A/B DH and DTSX. In the past, the most competitive were open cans which gave a large soundstage. With Headphone X, I'm not sure that is still going to be a requirement. Regardless, it is an exciting time.


 
 Fair enough! I got the chance to try the mixamp pro 2015 and it sounded decent with the a40's but I couldn't try it with my pc360s since I didn't have the splitter for it :/ I kinda wanted to order the stand alone mixamp though since it does come with the y-splitter but the output is only 32ohm and if I get pc350's, those are 150 sooo thats why I am eagerly awaiting for news about ps4+pc gaming soundcards/amps


----------



## Yethal

Okay People, important stuff here.
 Bloodborne last stage of alpha tests are scheduled for today.
 Will post some thoughts about the game.
 The Co-op will be made available.


----------



## Thrillseeka

Wanted to reply earlier this week but the Tapatalk app wouldn't let me post anything. I was working away so I didn't had acces to my desktop.  I'm sorry about the delay.
 Quote:


wilflare said:


> where can you get this chat cable?


 
  
 Saw that Yethal was so kind to post a link. I hope you managed to find one. I don't know in which country you live in but here in the UK they even had one in my local ASDA.
 I managed to get one of Amazon for about £8. If I remembered it correctly.
  


reckless95 said:


> You're right, it doesn't do chat through USB.
> 
> 
> The 5.8 Mixamp is old. I had that 4 years ago and it was just before they stopped selling them....


 
  
 I'm afraid that is not true. If you would use the (optional) PS3 USB chat cable, it was able to send chat through USB and convert it to a analog signal.
 The chat would enter the Mixamp 5.8 Tx through a 3.5mm jack and would be send to the Mixamp 5.8 Rx wireless.
 When I bought my Mixamp 5.8  4 years ago the cable didn't came in the box. I never really even looked for the cable until recently because at the time PSN felt a bit more unsociable than Xbox live.
  
 I completely agree with that the the Mixamp is old and that I shouldn't expect that it work as normal on current gen. But I felt that they abandoned the product as soon as it came out.
 For example: In the quick manual that is provided it states that the second USB port is for ''Future Accessories''  I was hoping at the time Astro would develop a Bluetooth dongle. So we would be able to connect to a phone or something similar. So far as I'm aware they never released anything that I could see as a ''future accessory'' But then again they didn't had to.
 But I do feel for the people that weren't able to get they're hand on the USB chat cable after it got discontinued. When I got the time I will try to pry open the little box on the cable to see if it would be easy to reproduce.
  
 Don't get it the wrong way, I still think the 5.8 is a brilliant device that brought me so much joy over the years and they will stay with me until they stop working.
 I actually preferred it over the wired Mixamp that I used to own.
  
  
  


evshrug said:


> I hear ya Thrillseeka!
> I always wondered, and renewed curiosity now that you mentioned the PS3 BT headset that you could use with a charging stand, how do you use a Bluetooth thing like that for chat microphone and still get game and chat audio through headphones/speakers?
> My Mixamp 5.8 has been gathering dust for precisely this issue. As Stillhart has told me many times, I love communicating while gaming (makes it feel more like hanging out with friends), and I didn't want to wire to my controller... Seems to defeat the freedom of a wireless controller IMO, and the battery life of the DS4 is much shorter than with my 360 controllers anyway.
> 
> ...


 
 Hi mate, I still haven't managed to get the PS3 BT headset to work with the PS4 and it also is not listed on the official supported PS3 accessories.
 will try it again tomorrow on my day off. I managed to get an old Jabra headset to work but never been able to test it properly due to the lack off people to chat with. So i can't really answer your question about Bluetooth headset for just the mic at the moment but I will let you now if I figured something out.
 So glad that I found somebody that has the same opinion as me because I really started to feel like on old nag.
 I am so intrigued about your setup. I never realized that I was able to use an usb mic like the snowball on ps4. Are you still able to adjust the volume of the chat audio?
 I have made the switch from 360 and I am still finding it very difficult to find mature players that use a mic.
 When I was making changes to my setup trying to get the 5.8 to work, I had no way of confirming with other people that it was working or not.
 Also thank for giving me the heads up for the X7 that looks very promising. I will keep my eye on that.
 Would I be rude to ask if we could be able to chat on PSN one day? I would love to hear the sound quality of your mic before I go out and buy the snowball.
 My PSN-id: Peanuts_Pete


----------



## PixelSkills

I currently have the Sennheiser G4me One with an astro mixamp. My question is I hear all this hype about the q701 being the best overall for gaming. Would I get better sound quality if I get the q701 with a fioo e9 then my G4me One?


----------



## Sam21

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser G4me One with an astro mixamp. My question is I hear all this hype about the q701 being the best overall for gaming. Would I get better sound quality if I get the q701 with a fioo e9 then my G4me One?


 
  
 Game one is a head*set , *Q701 is a headphone. Q701 has the best soundstage and imaging in MLE's guide. the bass is more present in Game one though...
  
 Q/k70x have the best soundstage/imaging south of HD800...that's what people here claim, But I haven't tried the HD800 to subscribe to this.


----------



## Yethal

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser G4me One with an astro mixamp. My question is I hear all this hype about the q701 being the best overall for gaming. Would I get better sound quality if I get the q701 with a fioo e9 then my G4me One?


 
 Stick with G4me One, it's awesome enough.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Okay People, important stuff here.
> Bloodborne last stage of alpha tests are scheduled for today.
> Will post some thoughts about the game.
> The Co-op will be made available.




Start a new thread with your thoughts when you do. I'll subscribe


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Start a new thread with your thoughts when you do. I'll subscribe


 
 Yaay! One subscriber! Am i eligible for freebies from audio guys now?


----------



## HiCZoK

Hey guys. Anyone used Sound Blaster Omega wireless ? They are only 100bucks and have rather sparse but good reviews. 
 I am looking for wireless headphones for a long time but never got around buying one.
  
 I already have CAL! and Sound Blaster sigma. And I have to say that sigma sound is a bit more fun and positional than cal. cal is better for some types of music like classical.


----------



## PixelSkills

Also does anyone know if a usb dac hooked to thr ps4 via usb would work to transmit sound? Im not happy with the astro mixamp.. any other options besides this mixamp out there?


----------



## Yethal

pixelskills said:


> Also does anyone know if a usb dac hooked to thr ps4 via usb would work to transmit sound? Im not happy with the astro mixamp.. any other options besides this mixamp out there?


 
 Try the first page of the thread.


----------



## PixelSkills

The first page does not answer my question at all.....


----------



## AxelCloris

pixelskills said:


> The first page does not answer my question at all.....


 
  
 One of your questions was "any other options besides this mixamp out there?" and that is answered on the first page. Beyerdynamic Headzone, Creative SoundBlaster Recon3D USB, Turtle Beach DSS... the list continues and there are also devices that have not been reviewed by MLE. So yes, there are alternatives to the Mixamp out there.
  
 As to if they're compatible with PS4 via USB? That's not specifically covered in the guide. A quick Google search turned up this as the first link. In short, the answer looks to be yes, USB DACs do work with PS4. Don't expect to get surround sound that way.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> One of your questions was "any other options besides this mixamp out there?" and that is answered on the first page. Beyerdynamic Headzone, Creative SoundBlaster Recon3D USB, Turtle Beach DSS... the list continues and there are also devices that have not been reviewed by MLE. So yes, there are alternatives to the Mixamp out there.
> 
> As to if they're compatible with PS4 via USB? That's not specifically covered in the guide. A quick Google search turned up this as the first link. In short, the answer looks to be yes, USB DACs do work with PS4. Don't expect to get surround sound that way.


 
 USB does PCM only through USB, check out the upcoming Creative X7, most people on this thread are going to buy it when it comes out.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> USB does PCM only through USB, check out the upcoming Creative X7, most people on this thread are going to buy it when it comes out.


 
  
 I can see the merits of the device, but I doubt most people will be buying one at $400. I imagine most will start buying when it's come down 25-50% with only a few buying it out of the gate at full MSRP. And even then you'll still going to use optical for surround processing. The USB on that device is intended for PC and Mac, where you can install drivers. You can't do that on a PS4/Xbox so you'll need to go about connecting the old fashioned way.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> I can see the merits of the device, but I doubt most people will be buying one at $400. I imagine most will start buying when it's come down 25-50% with only a few buying it out of the gate at full MSRP. And even then you'll still going to use optical for surround processing. The USB on that device is intended for PC and Mac, where you can install drivers. You can't do that on a PS4/Xbox so you'll need to go about connecting the old fashioned way.


 
 I hope by the time it gets released the PS4 will allow players to connect just the mic to the controller


----------



## Evshrug

Thrillseeka,
Apparently you could use USB mics with PS3 too. I Never owned that console so I dunno for sure.

You can make your mic louder (and ask your friends) by going to settings > devices > audio devices> microphone gain, and increasing that, or by turning down in-game volume on many games. I don't find myself missing a chat/game balance dial, even though Destiny doesn't have an in-game volume setting.

Friend requested you, we can test it later but I've gotta go to my birthday breakfast


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> I hope by the time it gets released the PS4 will allow players to connect just the mic to the controller


Yeah not everyone will afford it. You can plug the X7 into the PS4 with optical for surround and USB for mic input, the X7 will have a pair of built-in mics for beamforming.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yeah not everyone will afford it. You can plug the X7 into the PS4 with optical for surround and USB for mic input, the X7 will have a pair of built-in mics for beamforming.


 
 It is an expensive piece of gear no doubt about that.Maybe they'll release a chepaer version without a speaker amp in the future. It's a nice addition but I'd go for a cheaper version any day of the week


----------



## HiCZoK

Digged out my old Creative tactic360 and comparing them to aurvana live! which I bought later and currently using.
 All testing dones on asus xonar dg. Same settings, same volume etc.... and I am surprised as now I am scratching my head over, why year ago i bought CAL! at all as creative sigma sounds clearly better for my ears. Actualyl it sounds exactly like CAL! but with meatier, more satysfying low punch. It shakes the buds, which I absolutely love... I think CALs! are going into the drawer and I will be using Crative Sigma360 again from now on. Keep in mind that those come with small amp for 360 connectivity which I am not using and mic.. which I am also not using. I've detached the mic and cut the red dangling jack. I am never using microphone so having additional jack was getting in my way.
  
  
 Now a question. I want em wireless... There is Rage, Wrath and Omega. All have 50mm drivers... so I guess They would sound the same but just be wireless ? Or maybe You have different recommendations for meaty bass wireless headphones ? I am very biased towards creative/sound blaster. Love this brand since 1997... and can't make myself buy anything else as I am always happy with their products
 Because cable on that sound blaster tactic360 is horrible


----------



## Evshrug

Use Creative's compare feature and compare these side-by-side:
http://us.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blaster-recon3d-omega-wireless
http://us.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blaster-evo-zxr


I dunno if the Evo ZxR can support positional audio with PS4, though I know it does with PC. I'd personally go for the omega wireless kit, buy it somewhere other than direct for a better price.


----------



## HiCZoK

Thanks for help. Evo is way to expensive... but omega is in my reach... not the one YOu linked but this one with a stand. Seems like it have more connectivity options
 http://us.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blaster-tactic3d-omega-wireless
 its 100 bucks compared to recon3d version which is nuts. I don't think I care all that much for virtual surround if the ehadphones themselves are the same... and that stand is sweet


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

More bass =/= better. You may like the Sigma more, but I found the CAL to already be bass heavy, so more than that would be overkill and be less proficient at picking out detail.


----------



## Yethal

Gentlemen, I have failed. I mixed up timezones and as a result missed the final stage of Bloodborne alpha. I'm sorry.


----------



## conquerator2

The X7 also does DD5.1.
Seems like it will offer the best processings that are out there, if not the DH;X
Any ideas whether it will be able to just process the sound and pass it to external DACs. Like the U3, etc.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

toxos said:


> Was it ear opening?! Just getting a feel for whats out there as i have decent headphones but still always learning


 
  Mixamp Pro 2015? The 14 is just a remodel with same exact specs. Its just a marketing scam. Its rumored that the true nextgen mixamp being revealed in 2016. but that is just rumors i picked up from someone on the astrogaming fb page.


----------



## AxelCloris

HE-400i coming, will be used for gaming. Gotta track down my clip on mic. Let's see how these fare.


----------



## rudyae86

If the creative X7 ever drops to the 300 dollar mark, I might jump on it. Especially since I am considering purchasing some top quality Bookshelf speakers or desktop speakers, like the audioengine A5s.....
  
 Man...need mooaar money lol


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> HE-400i coming, will be used for gaming. Gotta track down my clip on mic. Let's see how these fare.




Make sure to not judge them on soundstaging alone


----------



## Toxos

dementxusa said:


> Mixamp Pro 2015? The 14 is just a remodel with same exact specs. Its just a marketing scam. Its rumored that the true nextgen mixamp being revealed in 2016. but that is just rumors i picked up from someone on the astrogaming fb page.


 
 Yeah the 2015 edition (I am assuming it is 2015 since the headset is titled 2015 according to everyone on youtube that has reviewed and/or done an unboxing). Makes me sad to hear that its just a cosmetic upgrade :/ so i will I will keep looking then for some way to drive my headset to my ps4 and pc... Kinda thinking about getting the Q701s too!


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

toxos said:


> Yeah the 2015 edition (I am assuming it is 2015 since the headset is titled 2015 according to everyone on youtube that has reviewed and/or done an unboxing). Makes me sad to hear that its just a cosmetic upgrade :/ so i will I will keep looking then for some way to drive my headset to my ps4 and pc... Kinda thinking about getting the Q701s too!


 what!? Well if your willing to drop money on an amp on top of the q701s, the e09k works pretty good. I do not suggest hooking te amp through your phone tho, on mine I get dropper signals and I have to keep replying


----------



## Yethal

Finally! An update from MLE!


----------



## jandrogo

Finally thanks to this guide and thread I've bought the AKG k612 headphones. I am really happy and satisfied with quality and sound.. But now I need to buy an amp for them, so, considering I have a Mixamp pro 2014, a 3,5 jack mic and a ps4

1.- How the hell can I wire all the parts without spending money on more devices and gimmicks to get all the sound throught the K612 and the mic working?

2.- I obviously know this thread is surround sound oriented, but thinking about a "B PLAN", which would be an high quality stereo setup for PS4? If I sell the Mixamp until something else is developed, for example a Modi/Magni would do a great job? USB OR OPTICAL? Where in the chain would be connected the mic?

Sorry if this questions have been already answered, but I haven't found them
Thanks to all


----------



## Toxos

dementxusa said:


> what!? Well if your willing to drop money on an amp on top of the q701s, the e09k works pretty good. I do not suggest hooking te amp through your phone tho, on mine I get dropper signals and I have to keep replying


 
 Well I was thinking about it. I currently have my pc360's so I may not either way but I just am so curious as to how the Q701s sound... and because money. I am trying to find a good solution for console AND pc gaming as I do both but I can't hook up my pc360's with mic to my ps4 and I am NOT using the controller for sound lol. Any ideas? I had the new mixamp for a bit and the usb/optical seemed like a good idea but I just don't know if thats the best option.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

toxos said:


> Well I was thinking about it. I currently have my pc360's so I may not either way but I just am so curious as to how the Q701s sound... and because money. I am trying to find a good solution for console AND pc gaming as I do both but I can't hook up my pc360's with mic to my ps4 and I am NOT using the controller for sound lol. Any ideas? I had the new mixamp for a bit and the usb/optical seemed like a good idea but I just don't know if thats the best option.


well I can not compare but the first page in here can help you , it's pretty hard to decide and I am new my self. The q701s depend on external amp with the mixamp, for pc you may need a soundcard. Depend on the device. Ask around on here. I am new and I can not give you valid Intel and my sources are not fully reliable .


----------



## Toxos

dementxusa said:


> well I can not compare but the first page in here can help you , it's pretty hard to decide and I am new my self. The q701s depend on external amp with the mixamp, for pc you may need a soundcard. Depend on the device. Ask around on here. I am new and I can not give you valid Intel and my sources are not fully reliable .


 
 Dang... Yeah I have read the first page and thats how I came to my pc 360 solution but then I got a ps4 and realized I could not hook it up. I think Envy uses the mixamp for his gaming (with a seperate amp). This thread is fantastic for headphones but doesn't have much in external solutions but I am not sure if that is because that is already the best there is and I am just too picky lol. For now I am thinking maybe mixamp pro (the newest one) for ps4/pc and later on, just buy a PCIE soundcard with built in amp, but for that, I will have to go to a different thread that specifies on PC gaming solutions. If I do get the Q701s, then I may just run those in my computer and use pc360s for ps4 :/


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> Make sure to not judge them on soundstaging alone


 
  
 I'm going to judge it on soundstaging so hard. Actually, I bought MattTCG's with the grill mod and I've read that it can improve soundstage, so that's what I'm hoping I experience as well.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I'm going to judge it on soundstaging so hard. Actually, I bought MattTCG's with the grill mod and I've read that it can improve soundstage, so that's what I'm hoping I experience as well.


 
 There's some improvement yes...
 But I preferred the 560 primarily cause of openness, a bit bigger stage and better sub-bass extension.
 Still,


----------



## Reckless95

pixelskills said:


> I currently have the Sennheiser G4me One with an astro mixamp. My question is I hear all this hype about the q701 being the best overall for gaming. Would I get better sound quality if I get the q701 with a fioo e9 then my G4me One?




Sound quality, yes. You would lose the Dolby Headphone processing for gaming however. Since you already have the mixamp and if you were to go that route, you could double amp withy the E9 and I think you would be quite pleased.


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> There's some improvement yes...
> But I preferred the 560 primarily cause of openness, a bit bigger stage and better sub-bass extension.
> Still,


 
  
 I hope to have the 560 eventually. But that'd be a bit down the road. I'm expecting the 400i to serve me well until then.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I hope to have the 560 eventually. But that'd be a bit down the road. I'm expecting the 400i to serve me well until then.


 
 Oh certainly, it is a very competent headphone on its own


----------



## Yethal

jandrogo said:


> Finally thanks to this guide and thread I've bought the AKG k612 headphones. I am really happy and satisfied with quality and sound.. But now I need to buy an amp for them, so, considering I have a Mixamp pro 2014, a 3,5 jack mic and a ps4
> 
> 1.- How the hell can I wire all the parts without spending money on more devices and gimmicks to get all the sound throught the K612 and the mic working?
> 
> ...


 
 Just add Magni to the chain with 3.5mm to rca cable


----------



## wilflare

this video is making me really want to return my ASTRO Mixamp and get a Sony Gold Wireless :/
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eNuLG_tH8


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> this video is making me really want to return my ASTRO Mixamp and get a Sony Gold Wireless :/
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eNuLG_tH8


 
  
 I should be listing the limited edition white version on the for-sale thread soon, new in box, if you're interested.


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys what is the opinion about this model, I preffer wireless -  http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance-2100-dolby-7-1-wireless-gaming-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those kinds of headphones only fully work on PC unless specifically stated to work for consoles. By that, I mean that you won't get the surround sound features on anything but PC.


----------



## Sam21

I have the vengeance 1500, it is the wired version of 2000....it is hissy...


----------



## iMalice303

Hey guys, got a couple of questions I'm hoping I could get answered.
  
 I just bought a pair of AKG K712 Pro's + ModMic to replace my half broken PC 360's. I've been using my PC 360's with a 2011 Mixamp with no problems (mostly with my laptop but also for voice chat on my 360 and Xbox One), but it seems like it would be advantageous to use an additional amp along with the Mixamp to get the most out of the K712's. If this is true, could I get a layman's terms explanation on the difference between a desktop amp and a DAC, and which one would better suit my setup (or both)? My confusion mainly comes from setup's such as the FiiO E09K + E17 and what I would need either one for in any situation that may arise. 
  
 Thank you and sorry if a similar question has been asked before. 1700 pages is kind of daunting to search through.


----------



## Toxos

imalice303 said:


> Hey guys, got a couple of questions I'm hoping I could get answered.
> 
> I just bought a pair of AKG K712 Pro's + ModMic to replace my half broken PC 360's. I've been using my PC 360's with a 2011 Mixamp with no problems (mostly with my laptop but also for voice chat on my 360 and Xbox One), but it seems like it would be advantageous to use an additional amp along with the Mixamp to get the most out of the K712's. If this is true, could I get a layman's terms explanation on the difference between a desktop amp and a DAC, and which one would better suit my setup (or both)? My confusion mainly comes from setup's such as the FiiO E09K + E17 and what I would need either one for in any situation that may arise.
> 
> Thank you and sorry if a similar question has been asked before. 1700 pages is kind of daunting to search through.


 
 Correct me if I am wrong (I am kinda learning all this myself), but DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Basically changes all the fancy pansy Binary 0's and 1's to an analog waveform. This waveform is nice and all but it is not "powerful" enough to pass the resistance, or impedance, of certain headphones which is why you need an amp. The amp helps drive that resistance of the drivers so that it can turn the waveform into ear-satisfying sound at an audible volume.


----------



## superjawes

toxos said:


> Correct me if I am wrong (I am kinda learning all this myself), but DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Basically changes all the fancy pansy Binary 0's and 1's to an analog waveform. This waveform is nice and all but it is not "powerful" enough to pass the resistance, or impedance, of certain headphones which is why you need an amp. The amp helps drive that resistance of the drivers so that it can turn the waveform into ear-satisfying sound at an audible volume.


You've got it. DACs convert to analog, and they _can_ come in packages with amps, but they might not (and many people prefer keeping their analog bits separated from their digital ones for noise purposes).

And just for clarity sake, you ALWAYS have an amplifier of some sort. The amp is the cricuit that provides the power needed to drive your transducers. It CAN be integrated, as it is in your phone, but a separate, dedicated amp has more room for better components. You always have a DAC, too (assuming a digital source, like a video game), and the same "dedicated components is better" rule applies.

You'll have to ask someone else about where the mixamp falls, though. I don't have any experience with them, and I don't need one since most of my gaming is done on PC. I assume it handles the "mixing" of surround sound down to two channels (two ears, two transducers) so you get 3D audio effects.


----------



## Toxos

superjawes said:


> You've got it. DACs convert to analog, and they _can_ come in packages with amps, but they might not (and many people prefer keeping their analog bits separated from their digital ones for noise purposes).
> 
> And just for clarity sake, you ALWAYS have an amplifier of some sort. The amp is the cricuit that provides the power needed to drive your transducers. It CAN be integrated, as it is in your phone, but a separate, dedicated amp has more room for better components. You always have a DAC, too (assuming a digital source, like a video game), and the same "dedicated components is better" rule applies.
> 
> You'll have to ask someone else about where the mixamp falls, though. I don't have any experience with them, and I don't need one since most of my gaming is done on PC. I assume it handles the "mixing" of surround sound down to two channels (two ears, two transducers) so you get 3D audio effects.


 
 Sweet! Thanks for the clarification! Question: Since you game on PC (I am an avid pc gamer too), what do you use for sound processing?


----------



## Ljanmi

mad lust envy said:


> Those kinds of headphones only fully work on PC unless specifically stated to work for consoles. By that, I mean that you won't get the surround sound features on anything but PC.


 
 Ok, what about the sound quality?


sam21 said:


> I have the vengeance 1500, it is the wired version of 2000....it is hissy...


 
 So you like how they sound?


----------



## Sam21

they definitely sound better than other gimmicky headsets....but as I said they hiss....
  
 If I were you I would save some money and consider one the following :
  
 PC360 (the PC363D comes with a surround soundcard)
 MMX 300
 ATH-AG1 OR ATH-ADG1


----------



## superjawes

toxos said:


> Sweet! Thanks for the clarification! Question: Since you game on PC (I am an avid pc gamer too), what do you use for sound processing?


Game settings for the most part. I have an Asus Xonar DX feeding my Magni, but I haven't really toyed with the fancy settings. Probably something I should look into...


----------



## voyager777

Hello,
 Newbie here, thank you for reading my post. I am interested in getting some high end gaming headphones to play the new space combat simulator Star Citizen, and am interested in getting the best over ear headphones for both surround sound immersion and competition​. I have read through Mad Lust Envy's reviews at the beginning of the thread and am primarily interested in the HD800's, the AKG 712's, the Alpha Dog headphones offered by MrSpeakers.com, and any other headphones which the community could recommend for me. Price is not an issue, I just want some recommendations for the best phones for the purposes listed above. I was also curious which amps you would recommend to go with any of these or other headphones you might recommend. I'm already dropping some serious coin on this game and the rig to play it, so I don't mind getting some expensive high end stuff, even if it's arguably over priced. ​  
Also curious if anyone here has tried any of the headphones listed above in conjunction with the Oculus Rift, and how the combination worked for you. I was wondering if the headband for the Rift interferes at all with the "seal" of the over ears phones around your ear or anything like that. ​  
Thank you again for reading and for any recommendations you could send my way!​


----------



## Toxos

superjawes said:


> Game settings for the most part. I have an Asus Xonar DX feeding my Magni, but I haven't really toyed with the fancy settings. Probably something I should look into...


 
 Aw man! Well let me know how it sounds once you do! I am just keeping an open mind if I have to get a PCIE DAC+amp for pc and external (with same amp) for ps4 or external DAC with amp for both


voyager777 said:


> Hello,
> Newbie here, thank you for reading my post. I am interested in getting some high end gaming headphones to play the new space combat simulator Star Citizen, and am interested in getting the best over ear headphones for both surround sound immersion and competition​. I have read through Mad Lust Envy's reviews at the beginning of the thread and am primarily interested in the HD800's, the AKG 712's, the Alpha Dog headphones offered by MrSpeakers.com, and any other headphones which the community could recommend for me. Price is not an issue, I just want some recommendations for the best phones for the purposes listed above. I was also curious which amps you would recommend to go with any of these or other headphones you might recommend. I'm already dropping some serious coin on this game and the rig to play it, so I don't mind getting some expensive high end stuff, even if it's arguably over priced. ​
> Also curious if anyone here has tried any of the headphones listed above in conjunction with the Oculus Rift, and how the combination worked for you. I was wondering if the headband for the Rift interferes at all with the "seal" of the over ears phones around your ear or anything like that. ​
> Thank you again for reading and for any recommendations you could send my way!​


 
 I can't actually help with this but I am super interested on what happens! I have always wanted to try out the HD800's but price is a problem for me. I am very curious about the DAC/AMP for this set up too!


----------



## KingStyles

Turtle beach has a new "elite" dts completely wireless unit coming out on the 4th. May be worth having just for the convenience factor.


----------



## AxelCloris

If it were open back I'd be early in line to try it. But for a closed headset that's $300 and a DSP can't be used with any other headphones, I'll pass. I'll continue waiting for the TAC.


----------



## dafoomie

Does the Koss CS100 headset have the same drivers as the KSC35/75/Portapro/etc?  Are any of their models with built in mics worth looking at?  A built in boom mic or a 3.5mm jack built in is pretty much mandatory for me or I'd just use my Grados.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Koss-Speech-Recognition-Computer-Headset/dp/B00005ML7Q/


----------



## Ljanmi

sam21 said:


> they definitely sound better than other gimmicky headsets....but as I said they hiss....
> 
> If I were you I would save some money and consider one the following :
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really want wireless, it is 2014 and I will not use cables no matter how good headphones are + I need an amplifier LOL .I had MMX 300 and wasnt too happy, they were good though, I like much more the sound that comes out from my Altec Lancing MX5021 although  you cant really compare speakers and headphones but just to get an insight. Cables are so annoying...


----------



## iMalice303

toxos said:


> Correct me if I am wrong (I am kinda learning all this myself), but DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Basically changes all the fancy pansy Binary 0's and 1's to an analog waveform. This waveform is nice and all but it is not "powerful" enough to pass the resistance, or impedance, of certain headphones which is why you need an amp. The amp helps drive that resistance of the drivers so that it can turn the waveform into ear-satisfying sound at an audible volume.


 
 Got it now, thanks for the explanation. 
  
 Now my question is, would the K712's benefit that much from an amp? I don't have them yet (they're on their way), but my fear is the first impression of them will be ruined by lacking power from the Astro Mixamp. I've only ever had the A40's and PC 360's, so I'm not a complete noob when it comes to recognizing good audio quality features, though at the same time I'm not completely confident with my ability to assess if another amp is worth it or not. I currently have the FiiO E09K in mind in case I ever want to easily add a DAC. Does anyone with these headphones (or good knowledge on reviews) and a good ear have any input? Other amp options would be appreciated as well.


----------



## wilflare

still waiting on that PS4 Chat Cable (2.5mm to 3.5mm) - hope that finally resolves the woes on my PS4 + Mixamp 2013 + BoomPro + X1 issues
 it does feel a little dumb though to have a cable running from the Mixamp to the DS4 Controller - it makes the controller... not wireless anymore
  
 I really don't get why the mic becomes "too loud" when plugged to the Mixamp 
 (I've tried a second set of Boompro, it's the same. second set of Mixamp, also the same)
  
 ---
 sorry folks, you probably heard me complain about this so many times.


----------



## conquerator2

ljanmi said:


> I really want wireless, it is 2014 and I will not use cables no matter how good headphones are + I need an amplifier LOL .I had MMX 300 and wasnt too happy, they were good though, I like much more the sound that comes out from my Altec Lancing MX5021 although  you cant really compare speakers and headphones but just to get an insight. Cables are so annoying...




But they sound better and do less harm :rolleyes:


----------



## elimelim

does anyone know much about the turtle beach tournament audio controller?
  
 found this image of it and looks sweet, astro mixamp killer? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jasonevangelho/files/2014/06/Elite_TAC_ProductPhoto_3000X3000-A1.jpg


----------



## Sam21

I would buy 


elimelim said:


> does anyone know much about the turtle beach tournament audio controller?
> 
> found this image of it and looks sweet, astro mixamp killer? http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jasonevangelho/files/2014/06/Elite_TAC_ProductPhoto_3000X3000-A1.jpg


 
 I would be the first one in the line to buy it, if it has a nice dac/amp and is without hiss....


----------



## Fegefeuer

This vs. X7! I bet on pure SQ+amping the X7 will win. Now SBX vs. DTS HP?


----------



## Sam21

well, consider the price also....X7 would cost maybe 4x the price of TAC....the DTS/DH/SBX arent that different....


----------



## Fegefeuer

They are pretty different and the TAC is supposedly 300 Dollars.


----------



## PurpleAngel

imalice303 said:


> Got it now, thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Now my question is, would the K712's benefit that much from an amp? I don't have them yet (they're on their way), but my fear is the first impression of them will be ruined by lacking power from the Astro Mixamp. I've only ever had the A40's and PC 360's, so I'm not a complete noob when it comes to recognizing good audio quality features, though at the same time I'm not completely confident with my ability to assess if another amp is worth it or not. I currently have the FiiO E09K in mind in case I ever want to easily add a DAC. Does anyone with these headphones (or good knowledge on reviews) and a good ear have any input? Other amp options would be appreciated as well.


 
  
 Just to be clear, the FiiO E09K is not a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) is just a headphone amplifier (all analog) with a few extra inputs and outputs.
 You can dock a FiiO E07K or E17 to the E09K and the E09K can then take advantage of the E07K/E17's DAC feature.
  
 You might read up and ask on this thread about what does a good job of driving the K712s.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/659251/the-akg-k712-pro-support-and-impressions-thread
  
 A FiiO E11K headphone amplifier is only $60.


----------



## Toxos

fegefeuer said:


> This vs. X7! I bet on pure SQ+amping the X7 will win. Now SBX vs. DTS HP?
> (picture here)


 
 Not gonna lie, the aesthetics of that are quite nice... question is, where did you find the info, and when is the release date?


----------



## Sam21

fegefeuer said:


> They are pretty different and the TAC is supposedly 300 Dollars.


 
 listen to youtube video comparing the three...to me there is no difference, maybe your ears hear different.
  
 I seriously doubt that turtle beach would put a good dac or headphone chip in there....so if TAC costs 300 which I doubt, X7 will probably cost maybe more than 600 bucks...


----------



## KingStyles

Any release date for either?


----------



## conquerator2

sam21 said:


> listen to youtube video comparing the three...to me there is no difference, maybe your ears hear different.
> 
> I seriously doubt that turtle beach would put a good dac or headphone chip in there....so if TAC costs 300 which I doubt, X7 will probably cost maybe more than 600 bucks...




The X7 will be 399 USD.
SBX is better IMO but I also like DH so it comes down to preference.
I believe the X7 does DD5.1 as well.
The TAC, if it is 300 USD, has the only benefit of doing DH:X .


----------



## Toxos

Ok I keep looking for the price tag and I have no idea where the $300 came from. I see that the Elite 800 something or other is $300 but that is a wireless headset, NOT the TAC. I think it would also make sense that it be around $100 since TB seems to want the TAC to compete with the Astro Mixamp. I could be wrong, but those are my 2 cents... which is less than $300... release date seems to have inconsistencies between websites: some say fall to winter of 2014 while others say, a tentative, 2015.


----------



## Sam21

conquerator2 said:


> The X7 will be 399 USD.
> SBX is better IMO but I also like DH so it comes down to preference.
> I believe the X7 does DD5.1 as well.
> The TAC, if it is 300 USD, has the only benefit of doing DH:X .


 
  

*Signal-to-Noise Ratio (DAC): 127dB*
*Signal-to-Noise Ratio (ADC): 123dB*
 
  
 The X7 will kick the crap out of the TAC....these specs are simply amazing. I dont think turtle beach can beat this...oh and the amp, the headphone amp chip is amazing too...
  
 regarding the prices, These prices that you mention arent even the list prices...the list price will be much lower and the price on stores will depend on the law of "supply and demand" .... may come down to a 100 bucks even....


----------



## Sam21

the X7 is even better than the Xonar Essence One , the SNR on the xonar is 120 at max...


----------



## Toxos

sam21 said:


> *Signal-to-Noise Ratio (DAC): 127dB*
> *Signal-to-Noise Ratio (ADC): 123dB*
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I am still a nooby noob with audio, but I do think the X7 will be muuuccchhh better but thats because of the price. I STILL cannot find the price of the TAC and since it is going against the mixamp, I do not think that it will be much more than $150. I might save up for the X7 since it seems to have everything I want/need but this new TB product may change things (price/performance ratio)


----------



## AxelCloris

I can neither confirm nor deny placing an order for the Philips X2 from Amazon.


----------



## Change is Good

^Woop woop!


----------



## rudyae86

With the X7, you can also hook up speakers to it as well, comes with a beamforming mic, which may be good if you dont like using a vmoda boompro mic or modmic. There is a website explaining all the details for x7. Honestly, i want to get one but the price at 400, kind of hurts....but then again, im sure not everyone will buy it, eventually bringing down the price to 300 within 6 months or so. For now, my Recon3D is enough for both console and PC gaming,and that leaves me to buy more headphones hehe X2 or AKG k712, Q701 and already got the hook up to purchasing V Moda M100 for 100 dollars . Its good to know people in the retail world...

Anyways, the TAC looks very interesting, and even if it was 300, im sure, just like any other product, it will drop in price...well then again its turtle beach, overpriced...


----------



## conquerator2

Let's face it, if the TAC is around 100 - 200$ and do DH:X, the internals will be *****, just like the current offerings around that price range. TB charges a premium for their products - I used to own a PX5 which retailed for 250$ and it was utter garbage... The only useful thing was the DH receiver it came with, which is 100$. So if the PX5 headset [if wireless] was around 150$, it was still vastly overpriced for what it sounded like.
 The creative Recon 3D, however, is half the price and it simply sounds better - less hiss/noise and better internals. Surround processing notwithstanding.
 The X7 is really looking like a top notch gaming products. If it improves on the Recon 3D in the ways it should, I think I'll be very satisfied with it.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I can neither confirm nor deny placing an order for the Philips X2 from Amazon.


----------



## Sam21

rudyae86 said:


> With the X7, you can also hook up speakers to it as well, comes with a beamforming mic, which may be good if you dont like using a vmoda boompro mic or modmic. There is a website explaining all the details for x7. Honestly, i want to get one but the price at 400, kind of hurts....but then again, im sure not everyone will buy it, eventually bringing down the price to 300 within 6 months or so. For now, my Recon3D is enough for both console and PC gaming,and that leaves me to buy more headphones hehe X2 or AKG k712, Q701 and already got the hook up to purchasing V Moda M100 for 100 dollars
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 does your recon3d work with PS4 and Xbox one ? and if it does, is it required that you install a software for console gaming only ?


----------



## Sam21

I haven't heard the X1 or X2, But I bet my DT990 totally owns both...


----------



## rudyae86

sam21 said:


> does your recon3d work with PS4 and Xbox one ? and if it does, is it required that you install a software for console gaming only ?


 
 I dont have a PS4 yet, but on their website, last time I checked, it said it does work. You dont have to install software for it to work with consoles though...but its preferred since you can adjust settings using a PC which then the settings are transferred back into the Recon3D. The only reason I said im not sure if it works with the PS4 is because Im not sure if the chat feature works? I have not seen or heard someone use the Recon3D on a PS4 yet but since my best friend has a PS4, I think i will go and try my recon3d at his place.


----------



## lenroot77

So I'm late to the party on this x7... Just took a look at it... Wow that looks like the one! For sure going to be some bucks. Very excited bout it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> I can neither confirm nor deny placing an order for the Philips X2 from Amazon.




WHY I OUGHTA...


----------



## benbenkr

rudyae86 said:


> With the X7, you can also hook up speakers to it as well,* comes with a beamforming mic*, which may be good if you dont like using a vmoda boompro mic or modmic. There is a website explaining all the details for x7. Honestly, i want to get one but the price at 400, kind of hurts....but then again, im sure not everyone will buy it, eventually bringing down the price to 300 within 6 months or so. For now, my Recon3D is enough for both console and PC gaming,and that leaves me to buy more headphones hehe X2 or AKG k712, Q701 and already got the hook up to purchasing V Moda M100 for 100 dollars
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Lol, if the beamforming mic is anything like the one on the SBZ/Zx/ZxR/Omni, they can take that mic and shuff it. It's a piece of crap.

 Knowing Creative, I'm more inclined to believe it'll be exactly like that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

conquerator2 said:


> Let's face it, if the TAC is around 100 - 200$ and do DH:X, the internals will be *****, just like the current offerings around that price range. TB charges a premium for their products - I used to own a PX5 which retailed for 250$ and it was utter garbage... The only useful thing was the DH receiver it came with, which is 100$. So if the PX5 headset [if wireless] was around 150$, it was still vastly overpriced for what it sounded like.
> The creative Recon 3D, however, is half the price and it simply sounds better - less hiss/noise and better internals. Surround processing notwithstanding.
> The X7 is really looking like a top notch gaming products. If it improves on the Recon 3D in the ways it should, I think I'll be very satisfied with it.


 
  
 If it's at LEAST on par with the ZxR then it'll be a damn good product, albeit falling shortly before great (AC3 ). Considering that it has its own power supply it might amp/drive cleaner (they share the same amp) but we'll see about that once it releases. I'll do a comparison with the ZxR then. Still with the issue of being harsher in the highs than my DAC it's totally a very good recommendation to pair with the HD 800.


----------



## MaltedMilkhouse

edit: wrong thread


----------



## RageSaul

Hi, I was here a while back on buying the Phillips Fidelio X1s. It's only been a year and I've already broken my headphones. The headphone jack seems to be not connecting to the wire very well (I have to keep wiggling it to get sound in both ears), This is my fault for accidentally yanking out the headphone wire all the time.
  
 Anyway, now I guess I have to look for more headphones and I've realized the Fidelio X2s are out  
 Have you had any experience with these headphones, MLE (or anyone else)? I am tempted to buy them, but not sure. My X1s have been really great. If not these, then which?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Heartless

i came into head-fi to try to find decent headphones for my PS4. but the more i browse the more confused i get. so far what i think i understand. is i need mix amp, headphones and a mod mic
  
*what i plan to get:*
 2014 Astro mix amp pro
 Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 ohm
 AntLion ModMic
  
 Is there anything I'm missing here that would prevent a bad experience with gaming? according to this info section the voice chat hurts the overall volume when using a mix amp. so I'm trying to figure out what that's all about.
 or should i get a different headphone/mixamp/mic Combo?
  
 i came to this website to seek a decent $100 headset but instead I'm planning to get all this other stuff. My wallet is not happy with
 Head-fi.org


----------



## Toxos

heartless said:


> i came into head-fi to try to find decent headphones for my PS4. but the more i browse the more confused i get. so far what i think i understand. is i need mix amp, headphones and a mod mic
> 
> *what i plan to get:*
> 2014 Astro mix amp pro
> ...


 
 A couple of things. Is your avatar from Nichijou? (funniest show ever!)
 And sorry about your wallet... I came here while I was in college and had no money... now I am out of college, have more headphones and less money lol. 
  
 I cannot speak on behalf of the quality of the parts chosen but I do wish to say that you will need an amp as well (JUST THROW MORE MONEY AT IT) since the impedance for the Beyer's is quite high. The MixAmp only has 32ohms and it would seem to me that more is needed. Sorry about your wallet again...
  
 EDIT: Also, you could get the AD700 (price around $130 when I searched in google shopping) instead if you want to save some more bucks. I have heard it is fantastic for gaming, meaning the bass is a bit lacking but the soundstage is great. Food for thought 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





fegefeuer said:


> If it's at LEAST on par with the ZxR then it'll be a damn good product, albeit falling shortly before great (AC3 ). Considering that it has its own power supply it might amp/drive cleaner (they share the same amp) but we'll see about that once it releases. I'll do a comparison with the ZxR then. Still with the issue of being harsher in the highs than my DAC it's totally a very good recommendation to pair with the HD 800.


 
 Please do! I am getting the feeling that the X7 will be a good buy for me. I originally planned on buying something less than $150USD but now... well... yeah... My question will be: Now that the price range is up to 300-400, what other products will it be competing against in that higher tier?


----------



## Heartless

toxos said:


> A couple of things. Is your avatar from Nichijou? (funniest show ever!)
> And sorry about your wallet... I came here while I was in college and had no money... now I am out of college, have more headphones and less money lol.
> 
> I cannot speak on behalf of the quality of the parts chosen but I do wish to say that you will need an amp as well (JUST THROW MORE MONEY AT IT) since the impedance for the Beyer's is quite high. The MixAmp only has 32ohms and it would seem to me that more is needed. Sorry about your wallet again...


 
 ahhh well that would make sense. another person suggested the Audio Technica ATH-A900X so I'm still researching things. guess Ill be searching for a new amp for my ps4. 
  
 ​also the picture is from a person who did fan art of Yume Nikki. my picture is from her more darker works. i guess the artist was obsessed with some brutal stuff at the time. or still is? i don't know.
  
 and i agree, Nichijou was great.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> They are pretty different and the TAC is supposedly 300 Dollars.



The way the gaming brands are marked up on price, and since they're still selling other models "below" on the product line, I could believe this price and it'll be awhile before the price comes down.





sam21 said:


> listen to youtube video comparing the three...to me there is no difference, maybe your ears hear different.
> 
> I seriously doubt that turtle beach would put a good dac or headphone chip in there....so if TAC costs 300 which I doubt, X7 will probably cost maybe more than 600 bucks...



How much of a difference is definitely up to opinion! You really have to get used to them to tell the difference, and even then people have different preferences.

Creative already confirmed a $399 MSRP.




sam21 said:


> does your recon3d work with PS4 and Xbox one ? and if it does, is it required that you install a software for console gaming only ?



I plugged the Recon3D USB into the Playstation the same way as the diagram illustrates for PS3, it worked right out of the box. You can install drivers on a computer and adjust the sound preferences from there, but default is pretty good.




toxos said:


> And sorry about your wallet...
> 
> I am getting the feeling that the X7 will be a good buy for me. I originally planned on buying something less than $150USD but now... well... yeah... My question will be: Now that the price range is up to 300-400, what other products will it be competing against in that higher tier?



There aren't really any other surround encoders for headphones in the X7's range/class... unless you count home receivers, which have less building cost focus on headphone components and surround processing.


----------



## HiCZoK

How are razer kraken ? (the standard version without the mic)
 They are recommended to me (among other headphones) in bass topic.
  
 I am looking for comfortable and fun headphone. To have some fun and also get immersed. And I dont play competively so sound stage doesnt matter I think


----------



## lenroot77

I think the 399 price tag on the x7 is pretty fair, has a lot of nice features/ gear and having them all in one place is awesome. Also may pick up some bookshelf speakers for it. 

Anyone see any red flags of concern on the x7?


----------



## Heartless

toxos said:


> EDIT: Also, you could get the AD700 (price around $130 when I searched in google shopping) instead if you want to save some more bucks. I have heard it is fantastic for gaming, meaning the bass is a bit lacking but the soundstage is great. Food for thought


 
 been searching around and all I'm seeing is the AD700x at that price tag. getting mixed reviews about the "updated" x line. anyone know if they are any good? also the lowest price i can find on the AD700 is 200 bones. 
  
 and is open back really more superior to closed? i always thought it was the other way around. yeah, as you can tell I'm a complete noob with this stuff. sorry


----------



## PurpleAngel

heartless said:


> been searching around and all I'm seeing is the AD700x at that price tag. getting mixed reviews about the "updated" x line. anyone know if they are any good? also the lowest price i can find on the AD700 is 200 bones.
> 
> and is open back really more superior to closed? i always thought it was the other way around. yeah, as you can tell I'm a complete noob with this stuff. sorry


 
  
 I have the AD700s, which I never use, I prefer my Sennheiser HD558s over my AD700, as the HD558 have more bass, not a lot more bass, but at least more then the AD700.
 And used HD558 are selling for under $100.
  
 Here is a replacement cable ($18-$26) for the Senn HD558 that comes with a 3.5mm plug, and comes in 5 different lengths.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261255113290?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&var=560313338477&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Heartless

purpleangel said:


> I have the AD700s, which I never use, I prefer my Sennheiser HD558s over my AD700, as the HD558 have more bass, not a lot more bass, but at least more then the AD700.
> And used HD558 are selling for under $100.
> 
> Here is a replacement cable ($18-$26) for the Senn HD558 that comes with a 3.5mm plug, and comes in 5 different lengths.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261255113290?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&var=560313338477&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
 This is looking promising. thank you for the link too. 
 Now i just need a decent amp for this to hook up on my PS4. currently searching


----------



## Kiranulea

Hello dude, I saw that you helped a lot of people on reddit that wanted a good pair of headphones and I hope you can help me as well. I have made the decision to buy new headphones and I've chosen SteelSeries Siberia V2 White/Black doesn't matter the colour. Now I have yet to decide what to buy, the ones with 3.5mm jack or the ones with USB, I don't know anything about my sound card, but maybe you can help me to find out if it is better for their quality to go with my sound card or to go with the USB ones. I want to use them for gaming and as well for listening to music, but mainly playing League of Legends, rarely Counter Strike and listening to music.
 P.S: If you have any other better options in mind, like other headsets that are the same price as these ones or lower please tell me.
 I am looking forward to receiving a prompt reply from you, if you are willing to help me of course.
 Maybe this will help to tell me what/if I have a sound card:
 http://i.imgur.com/TTNFFMc.png


----------



## Kiranulea

Hello folks, I have made the decision to buy new headphones and I've chosen SteelSeries Siberia V2 White/Black doesn't matter. Now I have yet to decide what to buy, the ones with 3.5mm jack or the ones with USB, I don't know anything about my sound card, but maybe you can help me find out if it is better for their quality to go with my sound card or to go with the USB ones. I want to use them for gaming and as well listening to music, but mainly playing League of Legends, Counter Strike rarely and listening to music.
 P.S: If you have any other better options in mind, like other headsets that are the same price as these ones or lower please tell me and maybe I will change my deicison, because I am not experienced in headphones.
 I am looking forward to receiving a prompt reply from you, if you are willing to help me of course. Please excuse me if I made any grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.
 This might help you to determinate whether my sound card is good or not.
 http://i.imgur.com/TTNFFMc.png


----------



## Kiranulea

Hello folks, I have made the decision to buy new headphones and I've chosen SteelSeries Siberia V2 White/Black doesn't matter. Now I have yet to decide what to buy, the ones with 3.5mm jack or the ones with USB, I don't know anything about my sound card, but maybe you can help me find out if it is better for their quality to go with my sound card or to go with the USB ones. I want to use them for gaming and as well listening to music, but mainly playing League of Legends, Counter Strike rarely and listening to music.
 P.S: If you have any other better options in mind, like other headsets that are the same price as these ones or lower please tell me and maybe I will change my deicison, because I am not experienced in headphones.
 I am looking forward to receiving a prompt reply from you, if you are willing to help me of course. Please excuse me if I made any grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.
 P.S2: When I went in my Device Manager at Sound, video and game controllers section it showed NVIDIA High Definition Audio 5 times and NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device(Wave Exstensible) (WDM) 1 time, what does this mean? Do I have an audio card? Is my audio card better than the one that I receive with Siberia v2 USB?


----------



## Yethal

kiranulea said:


> Hello folks, I have made the decision to buy new headphones and I've chosen SteelSeries Siberia V2 White/Black doesn't matter. Now I have yet to decide what to buy, the ones with 3.5mm jack or the ones with USB, I don't know anything about my sound card, but maybe you can help me find out if it is better for their quality to go with my sound card or to go with the USB ones. I want to use them for gaming and as well listening to music, but mainly playing League of Legends, Counter Strike rarely and listening to music.
> P.S: If you have any other better options in mind, like other headsets that are the same price as these ones or lower please tell me and maybe I will change my deicison, because I am not experienced in headphones.
> I am looking forward to receiving a prompt reply from you, if you are willing to help me of course. Please excuse me if I made any grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.
> P.S2: When I went in my Device Manager at Sound, video and game controllers section it showed NVIDIA High Definition Audio 5 times and NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device(Wave Exstensible) (WDM) 1 time, what does this mean? Do I have an audio card? Is my audio card better than the one that I receive with Siberia v2 USB?


 
 Go to the first page of this thread and find Yourself something in Your price range, MLE has reviewed a lot of them so it should be easy to find a pair in Your budget.
  
 If You didn't have an audio card There would be no sound coming out of Your pc whatsoever, You probably have something integrated in Your motherboard
  
 The USB card that comes with siberias is utter garbage. My roommate has them and I used them for some time and aside from the comfort I can't really say anything good about them.


----------



## Toxos

evshrug said:


> There aren't really any other surround encoders for headphones in the X7's range/class... unless you count home receivers, which have less building cost focus on headphone components and surround processing.


 
 Valid point, but couldn't you get a nice decoder that DID do those things and then hook it up to a NICEE amp and run that to your headphones for that price? I mean, more wires, but if it has more value, then I think it is possible competition. Please correct me if I am wrong though!
  


heartless said:


> been searching around and all I'm seeing is the AD700x at that price tag. getting mixed reviews about the "updated" x line. anyone know if they are any good? also the lowest price i can find on the AD700 is 200 bones.
> 
> and is open back really more superior to closed? i always thought it was the other way around. yeah, as you can tell I'm a complete noob with this stuff. sorry


 
  
 I have heard nothing of the AD700x :/
  


purpleangel said:


> I have the AD700s, which I never use, I prefer my Sennheiser HD558s over my AD700, as the HD558 have more bass, not a lot more bass, but at least more then the AD700.
> And used HD558 are selling for under $100.
> 
> Here is a replacement cable ($18-$26) for the Senn HD558 that comes with a 3.5mm plug, and comes in 5 different lengths.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/261255113290?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&var=560313338477&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


 
  
 Well wow haha HD558 under $100?!  Go for that. I have the pc360's and the drivers are similar if not the same and it helped a TON when I used to Scrim for COD4 (vs my Razer Carcharias lol). I think that is a winner


----------



## JayL

Anyone studying what op-amps will be the king for console gaming on the X7?  sounds like fun testing different ones


----------



## HiCZoK

how about Kingston Hyperx ? They seem super well done. have 2 sets of foam. are made out of alu and have 53 good bassy drivers


----------



## rudyae86

hiczok said:


> how about Kingston Hyperx ? They seem super well done. have 2 sets of foam. are made out of alu and have 53 good bassy drivers




Waiting for black friday..if they drop to 50 bucks...ill be buying them and testing them out


----------



## Heartless

> Well wow haha HD558 under $100?!  Go for that. I have the pc360's and the drivers are similar if not the same and it helped a TON when I used to Scrim for COD4 (vs my Razer Carcharias lol). I think that is a winner


 
 yeah I think ill be getting this one and putting a modmic on it. will this work with astro mix amp pro? since the ohms are a bit different. any experience with that? currently looking for the answer on google


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

558 for under $100? That's a steal.


----------



## nayajoeun

Heya dudes,
  
 Would upgrading the DSS to a receiver w/ DTS/HD and/or HDMI input (for uncompressed 5.1ch LCPM) be a worthwhile upgrade?
  
 As optical can only output stereo via LCPM.
  
 Random reading offers differing opinions on the difference in SQ between uncompressed PCM and Dolby Digital. 
  
 Using the LCD2's w/ JDS C5 w/ a Cayin C5 otw. 
  
  
  
 P.S.
  
 Apologies to MLE (OP), stupidly I somehow did not notice the huge text on the top of the page stating no unsolicited PM's...
  
 My bad =.....=
  

 EDIT: NVM, solved.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> 558 for under $100? That's a steal.


 
 I may be mistaken but I think that deal has been occurring every so often lately. Last time I saw them at that price was maybe 2 weeks ago at Best Buy stores?
  
 Not sure where but I did see the 558 for 100 though....wouldnt be surprised if during Black Friday, it would drop to that price again or slightly lower


----------



## Yethal

> yeah I think ill be getting this one and putting a modmic on it. will this work with astro mix amp pro? since the ohms are a bit different. any experience with that? currently looking for the answer on google


 
 I currently use the 598 with a modmic. It's glorious but cables can get in the way. Since I bought them after I bought the amp I never actually tried using them off the mixamp alone. Should be fine though.

 Looks like this


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Might consider the X2 for myself, since I'd like the ability to use the Boompro with it with no extra stuff. Then I can finally retire the DNA Pro, which has served me well, but I tire of closed back sound and the lack of comfort.


----------



## Evshrug

toxos said:


> Valid point, but couldn't you get a nice decoder that DID do those things and then hook it up to a NICEE amp and run that to your headphones for that price? I mean, more wires, but if it has more value, then I think it is possible competition. Please correct me if I am wrong though!
> 
> 
> I have heard nothing of the AD700x :/
> ...



Mad also thought the PC360 was a winner if you just wanted a competent integrated headset, there's a review of it on the first page guide. PC360 = HD558 + built in mic.

AD700x = AD700 painted black&gray instead of purple & light rose gold, maybe a headband "wing" revision.

Hooking up the little processor units + nice amp is what we do now, an amp does specific nice things, but so do DACs. I don't think people will jump straight for an x7, I think that device will be for people who have been waiting for a low noise amp circuit and a high quality DAC that also does surround.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Mad also thought the PC360 was a winner if you just wanted a competent integrated headset, there's a review of it on the first page guide. PC360 = HD558 + built in mic.
> 
> AD700x = AD700 painted black&gray instead of purple & light rose gold, maybe a headband "wing" revision.
> 
> Hooking up the little processor units + nice amp is what we do now, an amp does specific nice things, but so do DACs. I don't think people will jump straight for an x7, I think that device will be for people who have been waiting for a low noise amp circuit and a high quality DAC that also does surround.


 
 Indeed. I might still have to double amp my power hungry cans though. It would be convenient if the X7 had a DSP/DAC out. Anyone knows whether it can be used like the U3 in this aspect?
 I suppose it doesn't matter much as the amp in the X7 is pretty nice, so double amping shouldn't really do much harm.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

What's the x7 lol? Any links that signal to noise ratio is ridiculous


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why are you always so lazy, Docta?


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Lol I swear I did a quick search and compare up with some neox7 but the only thing I saw that actually had neo in the url was in German and page wouldn't load. I searched x7 dolby


----------



## Sam21

"It would be convenient if the X7 had a DSP/DAC out. Anyone knows whether it can be used like the U3 in this aspect?"
  
 The amp on X7 is pretty adequate...what cans do you use ?


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Indeed. I might still have to double amp my power hungry cans though. It would be convenient if the X7 had a DSP/DAC out. Anyone knows whether it can be used like the U3 in this aspect?
> I suppose it doesn't matter much as the amp in the X7 is pretty nice, so double amping shouldn't really do much harm.



Um, why?
So, the X7 does have an optical out, and all the current Sound Blasters with optical out can pass the SBX processing through to an external DAC, and it has line-out RCA connections if you are ok with the 127 S:R DAC but want to use a different amp, but... Most things you could connect it to won't be better than the X7 itself.
The X7 should be adequate for even 600 ohm headphones, only like the HE4 might benefit from more amping, and the OpAmp is also upgradable. The DAC is spec'd very high. The only time I can think you'd benefit from extra externals is if you love tubes or want to connect to surround speakers, which you'd probably have that AVR plugged straight into the console anyway.

So, other than "just because you can," why?


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Um, why?
> So, the X7 does have an optical out, and all the current Sound Blasters with optical out can pass the SBX processing through to an external DAC, and it has line-out RCA connections if you are ok with the 127 S:R DAC but want to use a different amp, but... Most things you could connect it to won't be better than the X7 itself.
> The X7 should be adequate for even 600 ohm headphones, only like the HE4 might benefit from more amping, and the OpAmp is also upgradable. The DAC is spec'd very high. The only time I can think you'd benefit from extra externals is if you love tubes or want to connect to surround speakers, which you'd probably have that AVR plugged straight into the console anyway.
> 
> So, other than "just because you can," why?


 
 Good to know that, thanks!
 Well, I have the HE-560, which even though is not as hard to drive as the HE-4, still benefits from power. Plus, my regular DAC and amp are pretty good too, so there will be room for comparisons :]
 I'll certainly try just the X7, then the X7's DAC to my SA31SE and then just the SBX to the NFB7/SA31SE.
 I mean, it is great to have choices, isn't it?
 The current console offerings don't offer any form of line-out so this is really good news


----------



## AxelCloris

Just a small update on the state of my headphone gaming experience, the HE-400i (modded) is absolutely wonderful for gaming. So wonderful in fact that even though the HP200 are more convenient to use when gaming I find myself reaching for the 400i every time. I can use the BoomPro with the 400i which is a downer but I have a workaround in place with a cheap clip-on microphone. I may upgrade to a better mic a little down the road since people can pick up my washing machine and other background noises with the current mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait, the X7 will do SBX for consoles?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Wait, the X7 will do SBX for consoles?


 
 Yes sir 
  
 Edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/creative-sound-blaster-x7-announced.html
  
 doest say much but thats a link of the X7


----------



## Squit

Nice run down of headsets/headphones very informative.

What would people recommend, I have a sound blaster z already with a mic and have a pair of ath m50's for music listening. I currently have ax720's the band is starting to crack along the top so probably time for me to a new pair.

 Console is no longer a issue to will be used for purely PC gaming. Looking around the £100 mark.

 I use a program called chevolume for telling certain programs when to use optical or when to use 3.5. Would 2 3.5 cause it to play through both headphones? If that's the case I would probably need to go optical.

Thanks for time


----------



## Toxos

rudyae86 said:


> Yes sir
> 
> Edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/creative-sound-blaster-x7-announced.html
> 
> doest say much but thats a link of the X7


 
 blerrggghhhh December release date?! Patience is not strong with me...


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Alright so I'm pretty sure I'm getting the fidelio x2 headphones for my yet to be purchased and assembled Linux PC and yet to be purchased Xbox One. As I see it I only have two appealing options. An amp & DAC with the 2011 mixamp pro or wait for the x7. I don't want a soundcard as is only a solution for the PC + it's not going to be as good as an external DAC and amp. As far as I can tell the x7 is a great DAC/Amp and it provides me my virtual surround sound on PC & console, although it isn't Dolby. I think since both of these work for Windows they can be run on Linux. Feel free to give me feedback on that. 

 Looking for ideas in general, I'm totally new to this. Is the Schiit magni a good solution with the x2?

EDIT: Oh and the x7 is my price limit.


----------



## wilflare

Is there anyone using the Boompro with the ASTRO Mixamp Pro 2013 specifically?
  
 I want to love this combination but it is not working out for me - tempted to try out the Modmic now


----------



## Evshrug

*Squit,*
I recommend looking at the AKG and Sennheiser products reviewed in Mad's guide in the first post, and shop your local prices. The AD700 or AD700x might also be worth looking into since you have the M50x for music (and the AD for sound whoring).
-----


*ShadowSkulkerer*,
The Mixamp *is* a DAC, and doesn't allow you to use a different DAC instead. That's one of the whole reasons people wanted Creative to make a surround processor which could send the virtual surround mix through optical out, that's what we thought the Omni would be till it came out as a PC-only device.

The X7 is kind of a surprize, we finally get a console-compatible headphone surround processor which can be connected to external audiophile gear, but... it basically already has the DAC and Amp improvements we wanted, built-in. It even has unexpected extras like user-moddable OpAmp socket, dual Bluetooth connections, Speaker taps, and USB Host mode to bypass the internal DACs of iPods and iPhones. Oh, and a headphone stand. It's not the cheap little passthrough processor we were looking for (which would probably be against Creative's best interests), but it's a very convenient and tidy all-in-one solution, and if I sell all the stuff the X7 would be replacing I'll have *plenty* of money left over!


----------



## martin vegas




----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

*Evshrug,*
Ah, thank you. If the x7 is as good as they say it is I *Want* it. I'm trying to avoid buzz and such background noise as much as possible.


----------



## Squit

evshrug said:


> *Squit,*
> I recommend looking at the AKG and Sennheiser products reviewed in Mad's guide in the first post, and shop your local prices. The AD700 or AD700x might also be worth looking into since you have the M50x for music (and the AD for sound whoring).


 
  
  
 Thanks, managed to find the original AD700 around £60 mark. I also bought a splitter with volume control need it I think never have suffered with audio loss personally I'm no expert mind you but my sound card should be more than capable to power them (Soundblaster Z)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I want to know, is the power spec for the X7 is in varying impedances, as well as what the ouput impedance is on the headphone jack. I'm gonna assume they wenf the typical 10ohm route, which is unfortunate, though it's mere conjecture for now.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Why? What should the output impedance be? I have only a vague understanding of these things after reading term glossaries and many discussions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

General rule of thumb is to have your output impedance to be 1/8 to 1/10th the impedance of a headphone for cood electrical damping. The less damping, the more the amplifier is likely to alter the way a headphone sounds, by making things like treble harsher, bass less controlled, among other negatively impacting things.

There are some times when this isn't the case, and there are amplifiers with high 120ohm output impedances since it may give certain headphones a tube amp type sound.

In general though, high output impedance and low impedance headphones don't work well together. Considering most headphones tend to fall in the low impedance area, it is generally favorable to have amps with 3ohm or less. Sadly, a lot of amps sold are 5-10ohm and sometimes higher. I.E., the Xonar U3 I have, has a 23ohm output impedance. This is why Iprefer to bypass the internal amp, and use my own.

in short, if you wanna hear your headphones own sound with the least interference, try and get a low impedance amp.

For cold, dry, thin sounding headphones, they MAY actually benefit from high output impedance, at least by ear, but may measure worse.

Also, some headphones, like planarmagnetics are designed differently from standard, dynamic headphones, and aren't really affected by output impedance.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Wow! Thank you SO much for explaing it to me. I have learned so much already from knowing nothing before.

EDIT: I found this on soundblaster's site.

"A high power, high efficiency Class-D digital amplifier TPA3116D2 delivers up to 100W power (2 x 50W @ 4Ω*), allowing you to connect to passive bookshelf or tower speakers. The Sound Blaster X7 features an impedance switch to select between 4Ω and 8Ω to match your speakers to deliver the best audio performance."

But I guess that doesn't tell you the headphone output.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, that's for external speakers, not headphones. And those impedance ratings are for the type of speakers you're using, not the actual output impedance of the device itself.

I'm not very well versed on speakers and what good power is for them, but I wonder just how powerful the X7 truly is for driving passive speakers. Like the very popular and affordable Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers which are 6ohm and handle 90w... I assume the X7 would be too weak.


----------



## wilflare

I wonder if the Mixamp Pro 2014 improved on anything at all


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> General rule of thumb is to have your output impedance to be 1/8 to 1/10th the impedance of a headphone for cood electrical damping. The less damping, the more the amplifier is likely to alter the way a headphone sounds, by making things like treble harsher, bass less controlled, among other negatively impacting things.
> 
> There are some times when this isn't the case, and there are amplifiers with high 120ohm output impedances since it may give certain headphones a tube amp type sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, you could be very right. Most (if not all) solutions with this particular opamp come with 10 Ohm output impedance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn. Not a good sign for most headphones... I mean, it's not a dealbreaker, but it isn't ideal...

Still, your average consumer won't even tell the difference. Consider the high price tag, not sure your average consumer is the target demographic.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, if it really is 10 Ohms then it's like the Asus Essence One (which was 399$ as well) which became quite popular/successful (also being a good combo for the HD 800). Like the E1 Opamps are swappable.


----------



## HiCZoK

trying to decide if is should get something from superlux or kingston hyerx cloud or maybe pull the plug and drop the cash on steelseries H wireless. Those are not mentioned here enough. any opinions ? I am mainly about comfort and warm/entertaining tone and kinda leaning towards kingston tho it would be perfect if it had detachable cord


----------



## Enginigmatic

hiczok said:


> trying to decide if is should get something from superlux or kingston hyerx cloud or maybe pull the plug and drop the cash on steelseries H wireless. Those are not mentioned here enough. any opinions ? I am mainly about comfort and warm/entertaining tone and kinda leaning towards kingston tho it would be perfect if it had detachable cord


 

 I tried the Steelseries H. The product itself is very featureful, which is why it appealed to me. Personally I found that the Skullcandy PLYR1 had better audio quality. Out of the three wireless headsets I tried (Astro A50 being the third), the Skullcandy PLYR1 was surprisingly the best-sounding set, particularly for the likes of movies or music. It's also the least expensive of the three. I would say, in terms of sound, PLYR1 > Steelseries H > Astro A50. Haven't tried the HyperX Cloud.
  
 Using my Sony MDR-V6 as a benchmark, none of the wireless headsets were satisfying to me, and I gave up on the idea of a wireless gaming headset. I cringe at the idea of more wires and chaining DACs and amps to a source, but I don't see an alternative. I ordered an AKG Q701 and Fiio E17 last night.
  
 If you can float the $, I would try to purchase two different headsets and compare them, and return at least one of them.


----------



## HiCZoK

thanks for the input. In fact I don't have much money and want to get a "bang for the buck" headphone. But almost convinced myself to buy something very expensive on a loan or something.
I could only be able to buy headphones for around 100$ without straining my wallet too much.
Had sound blaster mkII and they were most comfortable. Had fantastic leathery memory foam but sounded like muffled trash. Although bass shahing was great.
Had sound blaster sigma headset. Comfortable but no memory foam. kinda lacks detail and horrible cable.
Now have cal! and the sound is almost perfect. Could use some more bass shake but it's ok. The comfort is bad tho. Too small for me and headband just hurts.

So I am looking for something with leather/y memory foam, good non squeeky construction, Something that would last. wireless or detachable cable.
As far as the sound goes, I like warm sound with enthusiastic low extension. Not owerpowering too. Just for playing games but non competively and for listening to music or movies.

So now kingston hyperx cloud seems to be great contender minus the detachable cord. But i hear reports that it have good sq. memory foam + additional velour pads. aluminium construction and detachable mic. I dont use microphone as I rarely play mp games, so I would just detatch it. Dangling mic jack would annoy me though... I could jsut cut it as I did with sigma headphones tho.

I guess wireless doesnt make sens as You say. Plyr is unavailable here in Poland. How about wireless sound blaster sigma or rage ? anyone tried them out ?
edit: hmmm maybe cal 2 or denon d1100... I dont know how much better would those be from what I have tho


----------



## Sam21

" hmmm maybe cal 2 or denon d1100... I dont know how much better would those be from what I have tho"
  
 CAL2 is very comfy, bassy and the soundstage is very good too, I find it to be too dark though...


----------



## HiCZoK

cal2 is 2x expensive as d1100 here tho. But have detachable cable.
 btw. Does any of tose 2 have memory foam pads ?
 edit: oh no, wait. They are only slightly cheaper than cal2. I've looked in a bad store


----------



## Sam21

they both have the same driver...


----------



## HiCZoK

no. D1100 have 50mm driver


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Just checking if my tiny head grasps this.
 
The x7 has a switchable output impedance of 4-8 ohms for passive speakers.  This is only necessary for passive speakers.  So it is irrelevant for powered speakers.  It doesn't even use the same connectors.  Which means it has no bearing on these...  Which say they have an input impedance of 10 ohms... What's that mean?
 
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2031A.aspx
 
BTW...  These have switchable voltage, and seeing as I'm in the US and not Europe...  As it mentions in the manual I'd need to switch out the fuse.  Anyone know how one even does that?  Is it easy?
 
And if virtual surround devices are DACs, then why is the schiit magni, which is an amp/DAC, recommended?


*HiCZoK*

I'm zereoing in on the fidelio x2. I'm a newbie so don't take much credence in my choices but from what I've read on here it appeals very strongly to me. Read up on 'em. Fun warm sound but not overdone. Incredible soundstage, imaging and articulation. Pair it with a mixamp as the DAC and and an amp and you're all set.

(Someone tell me to shut up if this is grossly unsuitable advice.)

*MadLustEnvy*

So if you're saying basically that the x7's headphone amp may be too strong, then are there such things as dampeners?


----------



## Evshrug

Shadow...
The Magni is an amp, only. 
*Surround processors only work in the digital stage, they take the 5.1 directional instructions and process what those directions would sound like once they reach your two ears.
*DAC = Digital to Analogue Converter, changes the digital 1s and 0s and converts that into pulses of power with frequency and amplitude (what speakers and headphone drivers can respond to).
*Amplifiers attenuate the power pulses to appropriate current and voltage, and then attenuated that with a resistor so that the volume is right.


Most of the surround processors are all-in-one units with processing, DAC, and amping stages, which is why some of us have gotten used to them so much that we've found their flaws and wish for upgrades. Our first effort is to add an external amp to the output of a surround processor, since the amp "sees" the connection as an analogue signal like any other. Generally, you want to turn the processor's volume up as high as you can without getting distortion because you want to use as little of the processor's resistor as possible, but each processor behaves (or misbehaves) differently.

Regarding the 1/8th "rule." It was originally brought up by speaker amp makers who conveniently had incomplete studies and conveniently made pretty good amps which had low output impedance. I didn't see the tests, but I think they were arguing something about crossovers (which headphones don't have, since most have just a single full-range driver for each ear). The 1/8th "rule" never entered into headphone land until just a few years ago, where an engineer basically mentioned it also around the time he made a low-output-impedance amp. After he got banned from Head-Fi over a very public flaming of an amp company (and gained notoriety), he wrote a blog post where he tested one headphone (Sennheiser HD650) and found that it responded differently depending on frequency, the effect becoming noticeable as the output impedance of an amp got above 1/8th the HD650's impedance, and concluded that all headphones reacted the same. THEY DON'T THOUGH. Headphone.com and InnerFidelity.com post "impedance curve" graphs, you can see if a headphone has a linear, mostly flat graph or have a bit of a u-shaped slope like the HD650. I was surprised at how many headphones have flat impedance curves when I looked it up, and even so a lot of people like U or even V-shaped sounds to their headphones (like Mad's primary preference). Bigger picture, there's A LOT more that goes into good amp design than output impedance, it's more important for an amp to have low distortion and a well-implemented Circuit design, and sometimes you just have to hear an amp to know what it's like (or read a lot of reviews), just like clothes or alcohol or anything else. The ultimate test, of course, is trying it for yourself, but you have to keep in mind as a consumer and not an amp designer that you're hearing an amp as a whole sum of it's parts, not the exact same amp with just the output impedance changed... Something that the O2 designer guy seems to miss: the complete picture.

That said there are a very small number of amps that allow you to switch between output impedances so you can hear for yourself, however that ability to change it's setting also makes the design less simple, so basically just because an amp's output impedance is 10 or something doesn't automatically doom it as junk sounding. The original iPod had a 10 ohm output impedance, didn't stop customers from loving music.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Damn. Not a good sign for most headphones... I mean, it's not a dealbreaker, but it isn't ideal...
> 
> Still, your average consumer won't even tell the difference. Consider the high price tag, not sure your average consumer is the target demographic.







fegefeuer said:


> Well, if it really is 10 Ohms then it's like the Asus Essence One (which was 399$ as well) which became quite popular/successful (also being a good combo for the HD 800). Like the E1 Opamps are swappable.




Right, and the FiiO E09K has 10 ohms output impedance on their 3.5 jack, and the first iPods had 10 ohms output impedance (dunno about later models), and many many other amps. What is the impedance on the HD800 again?


----------



## benbenkr

May or may not be minor, have yet to test it out. But the new PS4 2.0 update add this rather hidden new feature:
  
 [Input Device] and [Output Device] has been added to [Audio Devices].
  
 Will have to try later to see if bluetooth headsets will work in conjuction to headphones or not. If it does, that's golden.


----------



## Fegefeuer

300 to around ~650@kickbass regions


----------



## HiCZoK

I know I am getting really annoying of lately as i am changing my mind  by the hour BUT:
  
 In my pursuit to find a "perfect" headphone/headset for me (warmy, comfy, over ear, durable, atmospheric and immersive sq) I've been searching for a last couple of days.
 I've been thinking about many headphones like razer Kraken, Denon D1100, Cal!2, Plantronics Rig, Some steelseries headphones and I think I've got what i need.
  
 Qpad qh-90 or Kingston hyperx Cloud. Now my question is... is there any difference ? Kingston gives additional velour pads in addition to their memory leather pads, so that's that. Also kingston seems to have even better headband (softer). I have xonard DG so it would drive those great. Build quality seems great, Comfrot seems amazing from reviews. And the sound signature seems to be what I am looking for, The price for both is the same.
  
 So... have I found it ? I mean, NOBODY offers the build and sound quality for the price as qpad/kingston. Mic quality is a secondary thing to me btw
 edit: How is the size ? I had to use CAL! fully extended to fit me head comfortably. heard that those apd/kingston are rather small. smaller than cal ?


----------



## m50man

Hi Guys.  I am new to the forums here, but I have lurked here for quite some time.  I have found this thread to be immensely helpful in my search not for a 'gaming headset' but for a pair of headphones to use for gaming (mic functionality I DON'T care about).   I have decided on the AKG K712 Pro, and I purchased them this morning.
  
  
 I have a few questions about using these for console gaming (PS4):  I know these headphones do not sound nearly as good as they can without an AMP.  Right now I have a FIIO E17 'Alpen' amplifier.  Would this amp be suitable for these headphones... using a PS4 to game?  How would I go about hooking this up?  Are there any other suggestions?  I hear some people mentioning the Astro Mixamp but I have read a lot about hissing when paired with the AKG K712 Pro - this is definitely unacceptable to me and I would not be happy... after spending so much on the headphones just to hear hissing.  I want top notch audio quality/soundstage.
  
 Please help.  I have searched a lot for the answers I am seeking....


----------



## Evshrug

HiCZoK,
Someone who has seen the Kingston/QPad headphones is who you want to talk to... Is there an appreciation thread? The thread regulars haven't heard those, so... we can't advise you on those.


m50man,
The k712 dampens amp noise a little better than typical 32 ohm headphones, but there would be a little background hiss. You'll mostly be paying attention to visuals while gaming so it probably won't bother you; but during music or cutscenes where you focus on audio, you might.

The E17 is decent as a start (better than the DS4 controller), will be nicer audio quality than a mixamp (though stereo not virtual surround). There are more expensive amps that sound better, but that's true for pretty much any product, and the K712 scales really well with better audio gear so you probably can stick with the AKG for a long time  If you don't have a mixamp or DSS, I would connect the E17 to the PS4 by optical, make sure the PS4's audio output settings are set for LPCM stereo (no bitstreaming option), and everything should be shiny.


----------



## m50man

I much appreciate your quick reply... awesome stuff.  Just a couple quick questions regarding what you said... the FIIO E17 will not produce the surround effect that I desire? I'm aware that there is no "virtual surround effect" on the AKG 712 pro's like there is on some low quality 'gaming headsets', but I was under the impression that these phones were great for competitive usage (footsteps, bullets, positional idenitification, etc).  Was I wrong???
  
 I want to be able to hear all of this... If the FIIO E17 will not reproduce surround sound (I am not sure why it wouldn't) then can you please suggest an alternative solution? You mention the mixamp and DSS(?), however you said that the FIIO will produce better sound than the mixamp. A little confused in this regard now.  
  
 Money isn't really an issue, I would like a amp that could power the AKG K12 pros with my PS4 to give me great surround sound and soundstaging.
  
 Thanks for reading, very much appreciated!!!


----------



## martin vegas

After the new ps4 update without me pressing a button it changed my usb headset so I can now use my mic over usb..i couldn't use it before the update! p.s I am sending audio out over optical and receiving audio in from my usb mic on my headset!!!


----------



## Evshrug

m50man said:


> I much appreciate your quick reply... awesome stuff.  Just a couple quick questions regarding what you said... the FIIO E17 will not produce the surround effect that I desire?
> 
> Thanks for reading, very much appreciated!!!



Sure, I just explained what part of the audio chain that virtual surround processing comes in on just the previous page to this one. Should clear everything up.


----------



## m50man

evshrug said:


> Sure, I just explained what part of the audio chain that virtual surround processing comes in on just the previous page to this one. Should clear everything up.


 
 Thanks.. I guess I am a huge n00b though because I really don't have a clue what any of that means... please in laymans terms could you try and answer this question for me:  Using the AKG K712 pro's on a PS4... do I get the surround sound?  Directional cues, positioning, depth, soundstage, able to hear all of the little details like footsteps and where they are coming from etc? The whole reason I bought these phones was for that reason alone pretty much lol.
  
 Would using these phones with a FIIO E17 eliminate all of this goodness? I thought that the E17 was a DAC and AMP and thus would help improve quality as well.  Is there any particular amp I can use with these phones (ON A PS4) that will allow me to hear all of this???
  
 Any thing you can tell me I would appreciate.
  
*EDIT: I have done a google search on the Turtle Beach DSS/DSS2(not sure of the difference btwn these 2 units).  Would you recommend pairing the DSS with my AKG 712 pro's for good positional surround for games like Battlefield etc.???  Would it be better than an E17?*
  
 SORRY for the MASS of questions.  This is the only place I have found knowledgable people...


----------



## lenroot77

martin vegas said:


> After the new ps4 update without me pressing a button it changed my usb headset so I can now use my mic over usb..i couldn't use it before the update! p.s I am sending audio out over optical and receiving audio in from my usb mic on my headset!!!




This is great I found a go around before with plugging into the controller and unplugging. But it appears I won't need to do that anymore.


----------



## conquerator2

m50man said:


> Thanks.. I guess I am a huge n00b though because I really don't have a clue what any of that means... please in laymans terms could you try and answer this question for me:  Using the AKG K712 pro's on a PS4... do I get the surround sound?  Directional cues, positioning, depth, soundstage, able to hear all of the little details like footsteps and where they are coming from etc? The whole reason I bought these phones was for that reason alone pretty much lol.
> 
> Would using these phones with a FIIO E17 eliminate all of this goodness? I thought that the E17 was a DAC and AMP and thus would help improve quality as well.  Is there any particular amp I can use with these phones (ON A PS4) that will allow me to hear all of this???
> 
> ...


 
 The Mixamp or DSS [first 1 is better than the 2 because it uses more accurate technology] is an all-in-one device, meaning it is a DSP [digital signal processor], a DAC and an amplifier.
 However, the DSS/Mixamp's amping capabilities are weak and cannot drive the K712 Pro well because it is less efficient than most other headphones.
 BUT, you need one of them to get the surround sound [sounds from all directions] instead of just stereo [L+R], that is why they're called DSPs.
 Ideally, you want to use the DSS/Mixamp/Turtle Beach RF station to get the all-direction sound and add a second, strong amp afterwards for the K712 [Schiit Magni, Schiit Vali, Fiio E12, etc.]


----------



## Yethal

To: All guys asking about pairing gaming headsets with Mixamp.
  
 Mixamp (and every other virtual surround device) has an ability to make terrible headphones sound mediocre and mediocre headphones sound almost-as-good. The point is to use good headphones with it so they'll sound wonderful.
  
 You can plug just about anything into the mixamp and the surround cues will be there. But with terrible headphones it will sound vague, You'll have to think about every sound and try to decipher it to figure out where does the sound actually come from. With good headphones You react instinctively because the sound actually comes from around Your head. There is no need for You to give it much thought, it just works. Virtual surround on bad headphones on the other hand is not seamless, it requires You to analyze each and every sound and ultimately does not provide any kind of advantage.


----------



## lenroot77

*EDIT: I have done a google search on the Turtle Beach DSS/DSS2(not sure of the difference btwn these 2 units).  Would you recommend pairing the DSS with my AKG 712 pro's for good positional surround for games like Battlefield etc.???  Would it be better than an E17?*

I use a dss and it works great. From what I gather its louder and has less hiss than some of the mix amps. They can often be found used on Amazon for 10-20 dollars.

I wouldn't get a dss2 as turtle beach dropped Dolby headphone on this model. 

I'm not sure, but u may still need another amp depending on the 712's impedance. I use a fiio e90k with my dss to drive my beyer 990s.


----------



## m50man

Thanks for the info guys.  I will be getting a DSS for the surround as I do not need voice chat.
  
 Looking forward to listening the 712 pros for music too as I am a big music guy (also produce some music) and I truly have never owned an open back headphone.  I do own a pair of ATH m50s which I love though. I use the E17 with the M50s and its a night and day difference honestly with the amp so I expect it to be even more so on the AKG's.


----------



## wilflare

wonder if the PS4 2.0 update will fix the volume issues on my Mixamp Pro 2013 and Boompro


----------



## jronan2

Im sorry if this has been answer before, I tried looking quick but didn't find an answer...If someone can lead me to a solution I would greatly appreciate it.
  
 I want to know if I can hook up Sennheiser Game Zero headset (or any pc headset for that matter) with the 2013 mixamp to my xbox one. I'm pretty sure I would need the headset adapter that xbox makes, but I'm sure what else I would need to hook up. Any suggestions?


----------



## Yethal

jronan2 said:


> Im sorry if this has been answer before, I tried looking quick but didn't find an answer...If someone can lead me to a solution I would greatly appreciate it.
> 
> I want to know if I can hook up Sennheiser Game Zero headset (or any pc headset for that matter) with the 2013 mixamp to my xbox one. I'm pretty sure I would need the headset adapter that xbox makes, but I'm sure what else I would need to hook up. Any suggestions?


 
 USB cable, optical to minioptical cable, xbox 360 microjack cable, headset y-splitter, xbox 360 headset adapter. All cables are included with the Mixamp, the adapter You'll have to buy on Your own.


----------



## jronan2

yethal said:


> USB cable, optical to minioptical cable, xbox 360 microjack cable, headset y-splitter, xbox 360 headset adapter. All cables are included with the Mixamp, the adapter You'll have to buy on Your own.




Ok so from the mixamp, plug the y adapter into the green from the headset goes into green on adapter and then with the adapter theres i guess a 2.5 or 2.5 from adapter on the controller to the pink side of y adapter. Also your throwing me off by saying 360 this is is only for the xbox one.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

Just wanted to show off my setup. 
[flash=720,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/VbXbxtG0o2o&hd=1[/flash]

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbXbxtG0o2o​


----------



## Toxos

dementxusa said:


> Just wanted to show off my setup. [flash=720,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/VbXbxtG0o2o&hd=1[/flash]
> 
> Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbXbxtG0o2o​


 
 That is quite nice! I would love to do gaming on my ps4 with a keyboard and mouse too! (cannot use a controller to save my life... literally...). Unfortunately, my current room set up does not let me use my house and keyboard :/ maybe someday. I will add you on psn probably today as I play lots of destiny too! And I am trying to get people to join me for raids and stuff. I am kinda thinking about getting a closed headphone/set set up for work/LAN and stuff but I am unsure still if I really do NEED it lol.


----------



## DEMENTxUSA

toxos said:


> That is quite nice! I would love to do gaming on my ps4 with a keyboard and mouse too! (cannot use a controller to save my life... literally...). Unfortunately, my current room set up does not let me use my house and keyboard :/ maybe someday. I will add you on psn probably today as I play lots of destiny too! And I am trying to get people to join me for raids and stuff. I am kinda thinking about getting a closed headphone/set set up for work/LAN and stuff but I am unsure still if I really do NEED it lol.


 
 Thanks, the xim4 is an amazing tool, definatly destroys last generation of adapters with wicked 1:1 accuracy and smoothness you get on pc. Playing destiny on it feels like im playing a pc game and zero micro movements.  You can add me but i may only get to accepting it this weekend, going to be busy the next few days with homework and girlfriend.  The people who are on this website regularly are really smart, especially in this thread alone so they can answer your questions pretty easily also the first page helps you decide what you are looking for.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

So what about this?

"The x7 has a switchable output impedance of 4-8 ohms for passive speakers. This is only necessary for passive speakers. So it is irrelevant for powered speakers. It doesn't even use the same connectors. Which means it has no bearing on these... Which say they have an input impedance of 10 ohms... What's that mean?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2031A.aspx

BTW... These have switchable voltage, and seeing as I'm in the US and not Europe... As it mentions in the manual I'd need to switch out the fuse. Anyone know how one even does that? Is it easy?"


----------



## S3lvah

Um... Hello. To be concise, I'm looking for a headphone+microphone combination to replace my Siberia V2s. I stumbled upon the *Samson SR850*s which in the headphone buyers' guide were very highly praised for their price. (Opinions? I enjoy high-quality audio and listen mostly to metal but also calm, instrumental music.) That still leaves me lacking a microphone though.
  
 Now here's where it gets particular: *I need a microphone solution that picks up my voice, but not much else.* I need to be able to use it with Voice Activation enabled on TeamSpeak, etc. so that it will never activate from keyboard rattle and mouse clicks while easily activating from my voice. This is really important for my (voice-intensive) gaming, and it's why using my Snowball iCe or other such table-top microphone is out of the question. (Plus they make me want to slouch down to talk to them...) Less essential but still preferable qualities are decent sound quality and a low level of white noise.
  
 I was recommended the Zalman ZM-Mic 1 which is about 10 bucks and has great audio quality, but I would almost definitely need some sort of DIY-solution for it because it's a cord clip-on mic and I always keep my headphones' cord behind my shoulder rather than running down my torso. I was also recommended the Mod mic but it costs $50... 'Nuff said.


----------



## Yethal

jronan2 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > USB cable, optical to minioptical cable, xbox 360 microjack cable, headset y-splitter, xbox 360 headset adapter. All cables are included with the Mixamp, the adapter You'll have to buy on Your own.
> ...


 
 Nope, green and pink from the headset to the splitter, splitter to the mixamp 2.5mm cable goes from the controller to the 2.5mm port on the mixamp.


----------



## Yethal

s3lvah said:


> Um... Hello. To be concise, I'm looking for a headphone+microphone combination to replace my Siberia V2s. I stumbled upon the *Samson SR850*s which in the headphone buyers' guide were very highly praised for their price. (Opinions? I enjoy high-quality audio and listen mostly to metal but also calm, instrumental music.) That still leaves me lacking a microphone though.
> 
> Now here's where it gets particular: *I need a microphone solution that picks up my voice, but not much else.* I need to be able to use it with Voice Activation enabled on TeamSpeak, etc. so that it will never activate from keyboard rattle and mouse clicks while easily activating from my voice. This is really important for my (voice-intensive) gaming, and it's why using my Snowball iCe or other such table-top microphone is out of the question. (Plus they make me want to slouch down to talk to them...) Less essential but still preferable qualities are decent sound quality and a low level of white noise.
> 
> I was recommended the Zalman ZM-Mic 1 which is about 10 bucks and has great audio quality, but I would almost definitely need some sort of DIY-solution for it because it's a cord clip-on mic and I always keep my headphones' cord behind my shoulder rather than running down my torso. I was also recommended the Mod mic but it costs $50... 'Nuff said.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/596078/samson-sr850-velour-pads/15
 Like in the picture in this thread?


----------



## S3lvah

yethal said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/596078/samson-sr850-velour-pads/15
> Like in the picture in this thread?


 

 Yes, something like that! If that was available for a student-friendly price for someone in Finland, I'd be happy.


----------



## Yethal

s3lvah said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.head-fi.org/t/596078/samson-sr850-velour-pads/15
> ...


 
 Just look for a gooseneck microphone and a 3.5mm extension cable. Not sure about that mounting bracket though.


----------



## S3lvah

Well, would anyone happen to know a particular microphone of that (gooseneck) kind, that would meet the qualities I described above?


----------



## Yethal

http://www.micronic.co.uk/store/item/400/new-mini-3.5mm-flexible-gooseneck-laptop-microphone-mic
 Sth like this should do just fine.


----------



## jronan2

yethal said:


> Nope, green and pink from the headset to the splitter, splitter to the mixamp 2.5mm cable goes from the controller to the 2.5mm port on the mixamp.





Ok so its basically the same exact set up as a 360 would be you just need to plug the 2.5 into that adapter they created? I used to have a 2010 mixamp to my 360 and somewhat remember the configuration.


I also have anotger question regarding a configuration for the xbox one. Can i use the lcd3, get voice chat as well as game sound from that, and use like the zalman mic with the microsoft adapter. In this configuration would i still need the mixamp for any reason since my lcd 3 would be already powered from my amp?


----------



## Yethal

jronan2 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, green and pink from the headset to the splitter, splitter to the mixamp 2.5mm cable goes from the controller to the 2.5mm port on the mixamp.
> ...


 
 If Xbox allows for mic only input to the controller then yes.


----------



## Abula

s3lvah said:


> Um... Hello. To be concise, I'm looking for a headphone+microphone combination to replace my Siberia V2s. I stumbled upon the *Samson SR850*s which in the headphone buyers' guide were very highly praised for their price. (Opinions? I enjoy high-quality audio and listen mostly to metal but also calm, instrumental music.) That still leaves me lacking a microphone though.
> 
> Now here's where it gets particular: *I need a microphone solution that picks up my voice, but not much else.* I need to be able to use it with Voice Activation enabled on TeamSpeak, etc. so that it will never activate from keyboard rattle and mouse clicks while easily activating from my voice. This is really important for my (voice-intensive) gaming, and it's why using my Snowball iCe or other such table-top microphone is out of the question. (Plus they make me want to slouch down to talk to them...) Less essential but still preferable qualities are decent sound quality and a low level of white noise.
> 
> I was recommended the Zalman ZM-Mic 1 which is about 10 bucks and has great audio quality, but I would almost definitely need some sort of DIY-solution for it because it's a cord clip-on mic and I always keep my headphones' cord behind my shoulder rather than running down my torso. I was also recommended the Mod mic but it costs $50... 'Nuff said.


 
 I would recommend Antlion ModMic 4.0, its pretty easy to mount, has noise canceling (you will still need to set it up on your voice program to calibrate what you want to pick, etc).


----------



## S3lvah

abula said:


> I would recommend Antlion ModMic 4.0, its pretty easy to mount, has noise canceling (you will still need to set it up on your voice program to calibrate what you want to pick, etc).


 
 Yeah, but as I stated earlier it's a microphone that costs more than the *headphones* I'm looking to buy... I already have a condenser mic for recording purposes so I don't really see the point in dishing out $50 for another high-quality mic. I would much prefer something in the $5-15 range. The Zalman ZM-Mic 1 is still the best option I've found bang-for-buck--wise, but it's omnidirectional and according to all review data does exactly what I *don't* want a mic of this purpose to do: pick up EVERY SOUND in even remote proximity to it. =\


----------



## Evshrug

m50man said:


> Thanks.. I guess I am a huge n00b though because I really don't have a clue what any of that means... please in laymans terms could you try and answer this question for me:  Using the AKG K712 pro's on a PS4... do I get the surround sound?



In layman's terms: 
*surround directions only come from processing, like from a Turtle Beach DSS, Astro Mixamp, Soundblaster Recon3D USB, or the upcoming Soundblaster X7. There are more options for PC gamers. What I mean by surround directions is a sound that seems to come from a front-right position, or behind you, or something like that.

*the K712 is one of a few headphones that have the soundstage to fool you into thinking a sound came from outside your head rather than just feeling like it's centered somewhere between your ears. Just using the K712 with the PS4 controller or an E17 will be stereo (left/right/blend of both directions), although using the better amp of the E17 will allow a more faithful reproduction of what the K712 is capable of. 

PS4 (set for Dolby bitstreaming) + DSS + E17 (for the amp) + K712 = good surround positioning that at times will trick you into thinking it comes from the room around you.
PS4 + X7 + K712 = potentially the best-case scenario for great sound and surround, with only summit-Fi gear able to improve on the sound a little bit.




s3lvah said:


> Yeah, but as I stated earlier ... =\



Welcome to the guide!
A low-gain, cartiod mic is the type of mic you want, look for one that has to be mounted close to your mouth.
You could feasibly mount a regular Snowball (which has a low-gain setting so you have to be close, and an adjustable height stand), or a Samson USB mic with the low gain setting, but I don't have an automatic go-to pc gaming mic to recommend. I use a regular snowball, but usually with the PS4.


----------



## wilflare

okay can someone explain this to me please?
  
 I just got my Turtle Beach PS4 Chat Cable and I use it in the following way
 ASTRO Mixamp Pro 2013 XBL Chat Output > TB PS4 Chat Cable > DS4
 - I use a separate power source for the USB connection (not plugged to the PS4)
  
 In this configuration, my voice commands work perfectly! everything gets detected without a hitch.
  
 HOWEVER, if I were to NOT use the TB PS4 Chat Cable and plug the ASTRO USB directly to the PS4
  
 my voice commands DO NOT work - and they do no get detected
 My voice is heard on party chat though.
  
 Can someone please explain to me what's going on? Is there something inherently wrong with my Mixamp? (it happens with my two Mixamps - one's a replacement)


----------



## m50man

evshrug said:


> In layman's terms:
> *surround directions only come from processing, like from a Turtle Beach DSS, Astro Mixamp, Soundblaster Recon3D USB, or the upcoming Soundblaster X7. There are more options for PC gamers. What I mean by surround directions is a sound that seems to come from a front-right position, or behind you, or something like that.
> 
> *the K712 is one of a few headphones that have the soundstage to fool you into thinking a sound came from outside your head rather than just feeling like it's centered somewhere between your ears. Just using the K712 with the PS4 controller or an E17 will be stereo (left/right/blend of both directions), although using the better amp of the E17 will allow a more faithful reproduction of what the K712 is capable of.
> ...





>





>


 
 The bolded part is the setup which I am planning to use... but I have no idea how I hook up both the DSS and the E17 with my PS4.  I have posted multiple times on these forums and nobody seems to know.  Can you please explain how it is possible to use this setup?  I have all of the necessary ingredients (DSS + E17 + K712 pro + PS4).  Also keep in mind that I DON'T need or want chat functionality.


----------



## Toxos

Ok, I keep seeing that the X7 might actually be worth waiting/paying for... It does seem to answer all predicaments of pc and console gaming... hmm... welp I guess now I wait


----------



## HiCZoK

Anyone using Brainwavz for gaming ? I really like the reviews and considering buying them


----------



## brom

I have lurked around the forum for a while and would really love suggestions and/or feedback. The information that I have learned leads me to believe I would appreciate the following attributes:
  
*Budget:* Upwards of $200, but would prefer less if possible (I plan to search ebay, amazon etc.).
*Uses: *99% PC gaming.
*Preference:* Open, over ear – I prefer non-synthetic leather substances for padding. Also, I wear glasses and appreciate the breathability, sound quality, and comfort.
*Connection:* 3.5mm wired connection.
*Current headset: *Razer Carcharias. I have had these for 3 years and have been having some mic issues.
*Other Info:* Built in quality mic -my current challenges with my setup revolve around poor mic issues. Also, I am a novice here and don't know much about doing mods to headphones, etc. I realize that a consistent recommendation here is to invest in a sound card, headphones, and an independent mic setup. I don't think that would work well for my situation. I try to game fairly quietly in a shared living room.
  
 Any suggestions (or even feedback) would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## voyager777

kingstyles said:


> Turtle beach has a new "elite" dts completely wireless unit coming out on the 4th. May be worth having just for the convenience factor.




Apparently it's only designed for use with the PS4 for some reason. 

Anyone here have any ideas for a mod so the Bluetooth connection could work with a PC and PC games? 

If not I'll probably go with the AKG 712's/Fiio/ModMic setup and deal with the wires/enjoy the superior sound

The Elite 800 concept is very appealing, though. Shame we're just not “there" yet in terms of sound quality/universal compatibility (although I feel like Turtle Beach is dragging their feet on both these fronts).

Maybe in another 2 years or so the marketplace will have evolved


----------



## rudyae86

voyager777 said:


> Apparently it's only designed for use with the PS4 for some reason.
> 
> Anyone here have any ideas for a mod so the Bluetooth connection could work with a PC and PC games?
> 
> ...


 
 Honestly, turtle beach wont change much....the way they have "tried" to evolve ever since they started the company, has only been mediocre stuff. They try to introduce new tech only for another company to make it way better and leave turtle beach in the dust. Turtle beach was really meant for people that dont care about sound at all and only care about buying "gaming" labeled stuff or just because their friends have a turtle beach headset.


----------



## HiCZoK

hiczok said:


> Anyone using Brainwavz for gaming ? I really like the reviews and considering buying them


 
 I am talking about HM5 btw. I was not too specific


----------



## Yethal

brom said:


> I have lurked around the forum for a while and would really love suggestions and/or feedback. The information that I have learned leads me to believe I would appreciate the following attributes:
> 
> *Budget:* Upwards of $200, but would prefer less if possible (I plan to search ebay, amazon etc.).
> *Uses: *99% PC gaming.
> ...


 
 Try Sennheiser PC360 and it's brethren, should cover all Your needs.
  
 As for the soundcard, Asus Xonar line should be just fine. AFAIK the DSP unit is the same for all cards, they differ in dac and amp sections though. Just pick one in Your budget, You can buy an external dac/amp later.


----------



## Hailin

hiczok said:


> I am talking about HM5 btw. I was not too specific




I hated them. Sound hollow and clamp like one of Jigsaw's torture devices. Apparently there is an identical type from another company that fixes the sound issues and clamp issue. 
Glad I bought them though discovered how amazing their pads are on the CAL! Series. They are also good for mods /shrug I wouldn't know gave them to my brother just to get them out of my site.


----------



## HiCZoK

Owners of these say they easily get stretched and require some burning in. I want to order a pair on monday but still am thinking about it


----------



## BigBadWulf

@Brom
 May be you should test an ATH AD 700 or an AKG 612. With the AKG you should have a little bit more bass.
 Or you buy a Sennheiser HD558 and mod it to an HD598. With a good Soundcard (good for gaming), you may not need to spend extra money for an Amp.


----------



## brom

Hmmm... So I feel like I would be open to grabbing some quality headphones and then dropping a modmic onto them. I know nothing about soundcards and amps though. Could you give me more info on those, or provide me with a link to more info? Thanks for all your help so far everyone!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sennheiser G4ME One below 100€

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/aw/d/B00JQDOALC/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/280-5148905-0497556?redirect=true


----------



## Creets

hiczok said:


> Anyone using Brainwavz for gaming ? I really like the reviews and considering buying them


 
 I use NVX XPT 100 ( brainwavz hm5 / fischer audio fa-003 clone ) for gaming / music and I love them. Great 100$ headphones


----------



## famibica

Hi friends, i will travel to germany this christmas and i would like to do an upgrade on my headphones. Im using atm the Tritton 720+( i know thats a headset ahha), i know they are not the best. Im planning to use them(the new ones) for gaming and to music.

 Any suggestions less than 200 euros?
 I was looking at the start on a "Philips Fidelio X1 / 00 premium"( http://www.amazon.de/dp/B008ZW2T7M ) or a DT 770 PRO 80ohm version or 32ohm.
  
 If this setup is not good pls give me some help, i wish to get the best sound possible for the money i have.
  
 And i wish to know if that is a upgrade to consider, if i will notice big difference between mine and the new one.
  
 Thanks for any help!

 PS. im brazilian so i cant buy from United States right now, just from Germany atm.


----------



## HiCZoK

creets said:


> I use NVX XPT 100 ( brainwavz hm5 / fischer audio fa-003 clone ) for gaming / music and I love them. Great 100$ headphones


actually ordered it yesterday waiting


----------



## Stillhart

toxos said:


> Ok, I keep seeing that the X7 might actually be worth waiting/paying for... It does seem to answer all predicaments of pc and console gaming... hmm... welp I guess now I wait


 
 Don't let the hype fool you.  Right now the X7 doesn't exist so everything is based on some info sheets.  It may or may not be good.  It will be expensive.  Depending on how expensive, and how many o the features you use, you could get other equivalent options for cheaper.
  
 I know Evs is super excited about it, but I'm taking a more "wait and see" approach.  I'm not convinced it'll be worthwhile at the prices people are expecting.
  
 EDIT:  1500!


----------



## Toxos

stillhart said:


> Don't let the hype fool you.  Right now the X7 doesn't exist so everything is based on some info sheets.  It may or may not be good.  It will be expensive.  Depending on how expensive, and how many o the features you use, you could get other equivalent options for cheaper.
> 
> I know Evs is super excited about it, but I'm taking a more "wait and see" approach.  I'm not convinced it'll be worthwhile at the prices people are expecting.
> 
> EDIT:  1500!


 
 True, I was probably not gonna buy it right away as I will want to see reviews first. Also, NICE 1501! xD


----------



## Sam21

stillhart said:


> Don't let the hype fool you.  Right now the X7 doesn't exist so everything is based on some info sheets.  It may or may not be good.  It will be expensive.  Depending on how expensive, and how many o the features you use, you could get other equivalent options for cheaper.
> 
> I know Evs is super excited about it, but I'm taking a more "wait and see" approach.  I'm not convinced it'll be worthwhile at the prices people are expecting.
> 
> EDIT:  1500!


 
 on paper, X7 kills all the other decoder in the market(except for receivers) like tritton and mixamp ....


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> on paper


 
  
 Yes, on paper.  Once it's off paper, we can make an actual determination.
  
 And part of that determination will be whether all those bells and whistles validate the price.  If all you want is a good decoder with a nice amp, maybe the X7 will be overkill.  *shrug*
  
 I'm just saying we should be keeping the hype train in check, especially when counceling noobies.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> sam21 said:
> 
> 
> > on paper
> ...


 
 Well, as long as X7's review isn't frontpaged on this thread noone will buy it. 99% of the lurkers read just the first page and none of the comments.


----------



## lenroot77

It's supposed to be 400 dollars I believe? To me it's a steal if I can have all that in one box. I am Slightly concerned about it being a brand new product though, can anyone vouch for the reliability of creative's products?


----------



## martin vegas

I am thinking about getting the X7 and the Q701 for Christmas..not sure yet, I have seen a pair of AKG545 in my local hifi store last pair for half the retail price..if I get the 545 I probably won't bother with the X7 and Q701..also might get the new Marantz pm5005 and just use dac amp and speakers for my ps4 single player games and use my gaming pc for mulitplayer surround bf4/hardline!


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Yes, on paper.  Once it's off paper, we can make an actual determination.
> 
> And part of that determination will be whether all those bells and whistles validate the price.  If all you want is a good decoder with a nice amp, maybe the X7 will be overkill.  *shrug*
> 
> I'm just saying we should be keeping the hype train in check, especially when counceling noobies.



Well, HYPE TRAIN might be a bit of hyperbole, the X7 interests me and it's not like it was my first recommendation, however if they don't remove the feature's they've listed on paper or change the component parts listed (or totally have an inept design, unlikely considering their experience), then it solves a lot of problems for trying to make a higher-end integrated setup. Before the announcement (X7 not yet available), I would occasionally recommend a receiver, but it's hard to find those that don't compromise on headphone features or cost more than the X7.

It's so far a logical looking upgrade for me, everyone else has to make up their own mind based on their desires.




yethal said:


> Well, as long as X7's review isn't frontpaged on this thread noone will buy it. 99% of the lurkers read just the first page and none of the comments.



Lol 99%
You might be right, but it sure seems like plenty of people don't read the first post and ask for a summary recommendation in the thread.





lenroot77 said:


> It's supposed to be 400 dollars I believe? To me it's a steal if I can have all that in one box. I am Slightly concerned about it being a brand new product though, can anyone vouch for the reliability of creative's products?




I haven't owned all generations of Creative products, but the four I did own have all been reliably good products. Only hiccup I ever had was resolved by a firmware update.

The speaker amp won't be amazing, but it'll be more than adequate for my passive bookshelf speakers.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'd totally get hyped if the x7 featured a HDMI Input.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> I'd totally get hyped if the x7 featured a HDMI Input.


 
 And 7.1 LPCM decoding


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> And 7.1 LPCM decoding


 
  
 Yes. HDMI implies PCM, DTS-HD, True HD, DTS, AC3 et decoding (to me), as I am used to with an AVR


----------



## bavinck

I have the sennheiser g4me one headphones connected to my ps4. Mixamp pro is on its way in a few days. The sennheiser definitely will need an amp for a little extra boost, as I like to use the mic when playing. Which of the following amps is considered to be the best pair up for my setuo:
E11k Kilimanjaro2 - leaning this way now due to price
Fiio e12
O2
Magni

Thanks for the replies!


----------



## Evshrug

Well the O2 is going to be the best of those on sound quality, there's a reason companies make higher models, however your budget may make the E11k "best" for you.

Aaaaaand that's the best answer I can give you.


----------



## bavinck

evshrug said:


> Well the O2 is going to be the best of those on sound quality, there's a reason companies make higher models, however your budget may make the E11k "best" for you.
> 
> Aaaaaand that's the best answer I can give you.


 
 Do you know how the o2 requires it power source? If wall plug it will be tough in my living room. Does it have batteries in it like the fiio?
  
 SQ super important. Willing to spend the extra if it will be a noticeable improvement with the mixamp.


----------



## HiCZoK

I came here to confirm that Brainwavz HM5 is fantastic for gaming. new cod sounds excellent and the stage is really open for a closed headphone. and sound quality is just astonishing. Alsobuild quality exceeds anything i've ever seen.
  
 using it with xonard dg in 32-64 pro gaming mode. Kinda thinking of getting some external osundcard or fiio e10. any ideas ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is a battery version and a standard version of the O2, IIRC. The battery version doesnt seem to be popular, probably since the O2 isnt THAT small and will likely eat up batteries like nothing else.


----------



## bavinck

mad lust envy said:


> There is a battery version and a standard version of the O2, IIRC. The battery version doesnt seem to be popular, probably since the O2 isnt THAT small and will likely eat up batteries like nothing else.



Thanks. The website I would order it from has the battery version. Are the batteries replaceable? Not sure a cord solution would work well for me as the amp will be a good 15 ft from an outlet. USB power would work better, but I don't think the o2 has that. 

O2 has super good reviews online, anyone have experience with it and the mixamp pro 2013?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe it uses a 9v or 12v battery, and should be easily replaceable.

The battery bay is the same space that the standard O2 uses to house the internal ODAC if you choose the combo. If 6ou were to use the ODAC+O2, you can't use a battery. Not that you are. I personally find the ODAC to be the more interestingof the two objective devices. The ODAC was my favorite dac.


----------



## bavinck

mad lust envy said:


> I believe it uses a 9v or 12v battery, and should be easily replaceable.
> 
> The battery bay is the same space that the standard O2 uses to house the internal ODAC if you choose the combo. If 6ou were to use the ODAC+O2, you can't use a battery. Not that you are. I personally find the ODAC to be the more interestingof the two objective devices. The ODAC was my favorite dac.




You think the physical size of the o2 would get to be a pain setting up each night I use my ps4? Would be stored with mixamp under tv, then pulled out to my couch. Otherwise I am think Fiio e12,but not sure how it pairs with the mixamp and my sennheiser g4me one cans. Any thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The game one isn't hard to drive, so I would just use the Mixamp alone.


----------



## bavinck

mad lust envy said:


> The game one isn't hard to drive, so I would just use the Mixamp alone.



OK, thanks for the tip. Using the ds4 I have the volume at max just to sound somewhat loud, haven't hooked up the mixamp yet. I guess it will provide sufficient amplification. 

I ordered the game one just before I read all your reviews. Figured I would send it back and get the new x2 or k712,but though what the heck, try it out first. I really like it, and having built in mic is nice. Do have a boompro and Nad hp50 when I need more isolation. 

Thanks again.


----------



## cheeno50

Hey, I'm new to this thread.
  
 I just got the Fidelio X2 for music and gaming. However, I plan on selling them because their warm sound signature does not deliver enough punch in the bass department. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for that punch in the bass kicks but it never comes. Also, they didn't seem to do amazing in-game either.
  
 I want open-back headphones for gaming (cs go) and music. With good mids, bass, and punch. (I mainly listen to electronic/house/R&B)
  
 Any recommendations? My budget is under 1k for headphones/soundcard/amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the X1 if the X2 isnt bassy enough for you. If not, the DT990.


----------



## rudyae86

cheeno50 said:


> Hey, I'm new to this thread.
> 
> I just got the Fidelio X2 for music and gaming. However, I plan on selling them because their warm sound signature does not deliver enough punch in the bass department. I feel like I'm constantly waiting for that punch in the bass kicks but it never comes. Also, they didn't seem to do amazing in-game either.
> 
> ...




I believe in burn-in and usually brand new headphones dont sound similar to what some peoples descriptions say.

When I first got the X1's, I was impressed but the bass was still lacking....150hrs later of use.....man the bass came to life!.

I mean, the X2 is practically the same as the x1 with just slightly less bass (as to what some have so far have said). Honestly, its still too early for several headfiers to start reviewing or complaining about the X2.

Also, you seem to be relatively new to the scene, as in the audiphile world per se. In order for any member to help you a bit more or recommend you something better, do tell us what hardware you are using?

Dont take this the wrong way but it almost seems like you didnt do much research prior to purchasing the x2.

Also, MLE....not sure but do you believe in burning in or breaking into headphones? 

I was expecting you to answer him with a "give them more hours of use or leave them with music playing for several hours and see how the sound changes".......

Just wondering


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't. Change to another headphone for many many hours or over the course of many days then come back to the previous headphone and see how your brain needs to readapt as the sound is "suddenly" not as you "left it". 
  
 However pad structure/composition/deterioration effect noticably but depending on the quality this takes a long time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

R.I.P Monster DNA Pro. One of the pads burst open. I think its time to just put it to rest. Waiting on that X2...

Until then, looks like I have no voice chat, since I cant find the y adapter for the Mixamp+Clip on mic.

Oh, I forget I currently have a loaner pair of cans with a mic.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did you order the X2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's not in stock...


----------



## cheeno50

I got my x2 a week ago from Amazon.com.
They say out of stock but for me it took about two weeks from order to delivery. I guess they slowly stocking up to keep prices up.

Anyways, I'll let them burn in. so far my source is iPhone and stock computer mother board. What's a good sound card?

I'll give the dt990s a shot if I find some in Toronto. As long as the sound separation is good and they have bass punch then I'm happy.
So far the x2 sound separation in cs: go isn't that good compared to my simple old iPod headphones. The front and rear separation is lacking. 

Thanks everyone


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

Okay guys, I have an update and a question. I have started building my setup piece by piece. I got my new X-Box One and PS4. Due to some issues at the store, I caved and got a set of Playstation Gold Wireless headphones (got them for half price) to get me by because I only had the stock set. I also received my Q701s. I really want to use them on my gaming consoles, but for the life of me I cannot find a decently priced Astro Mixamp 5.8. Does anyone here have one for sale or know where I could get a decent deal on a set? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Hey guys, I need a new gaming headphone to match with my mix-amp as the 3.5mm tip of my a40s is bent and I've been waiting months for a new cable from astro while listening to only one channel only to find out last night in an email that they no longer manufacture the cable so I'm SOL. I'm done with astro after a 6 year relationship unless my mix-amp takes a dump too. . So I'm looking at a cheap alternative but without a doubt would like to use the vmoda boom mic. What headphones work with it? I know the vmodas do and the x2s would work too right? . What other alternatives? I would go sennheiser gaming headset route but I did not like the 598 at all for gaming. I'm pretty positive I will be getting the x2 with or before income tax but can't afford it right away so looking for a cheaper, temporary alternative.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> Okay guys, I have an update and a question. I have started building my setup piece by piece. I got my new X-Box One and PS4. Due to some issues at the store, I caved and got a set of Playstation Gold Wireless headphones (got them for half price) to get me by because I only had the stock set. I also received my Q701s. I really want to use them on my gaming consoles, but for the life of me I cannot find a decently priced Astro Mixamp 5.8. Does anyone here have one for sale or know where I could get a decent deal on a set? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


 
 The only way to get a decent deal on a 5.8 is to spend a LOT of time on eBay figuring out the best search terms and being super patient.  I got mine for $40 shipped (IIRC, might have been $35?) few months back.  It took probably 3 months to get the right one and it was mostly luck as it was listed "as is" since the guy had no idea if it worked or not.  I emailed him to check it out and he said it did indeed work so I bit and I was the only one.  
  
 3 months of patience saved me $40.  Was it worth the wait?  Well I have 2 Recons I was using in the mean time so I wasn't in a rush.  If you're in a rush, you should be able to find them in the $80 price range relatively easily.


----------



## Stillhart

doctacosmos said:


> Hey guys, I need a new gaming headphone to match with my mix-amp as the 3.5mm tip of my a40s is bent and I've been waiting months for a new cable from astro while listening to only one channel only to find out last night in an email that they no longer manufacture the cable so I'm SOL. I'm done with astro after a 6 year relationship unless my mix-amp takes a dump too. . So I'm looking at a cheap alternative but without a doubt would like to use the vmoda boom mic. What headphones work with it? I know the vmodas do and the x2s would work too right? . What other alternatives? I would go sennheiser gaming headset route but I did not like the 598 at all for gaming. I'm pretty positive I will be getting the x2 with or before income tax but can't afford it right away so looking for a cheaper, temporary alternative.


 
  
 There's a list on the first page of the guide with all the headphones that work with the Boompro.  The X2 is newer than that list, but I believe it works just like the X1.  Senns don't work with the Boompro and AKG's will work if @Zombie_X decides to start selling his adapter.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Sweet thanks. I haven't looked at the first page in a while.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why do I bother even updating... heh.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Why do I bother even updating... heh.


 
 Did you put the X2 on there yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I will, when I get it. Don't rush me.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Why do I bother even updating... heh.


 
 For all of us folks who enjoy a good read of course.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Why do I bother even updating... heh.


 
  
 Because dem legs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

These legs belong to Firedawg and his exotic relic iron.


----------



## AxelCloris




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But... but...he cooks!


----------



## bavinck

Just got my mixamp pro 2013,it already had the most updated firmware according to the Astro site. Regarding equalizer, is this correct:
Top left is pro
Top right is core
Bottom right is media
Bottom. Left is lan
Please confirm or correct, the settings are not listed that I can see.


----------



## cheeno50

other than headphones... What would you guys recommend for a source?
  
 Which would be the best sound card for cs:go/ music.  
  
 Or the best dac/amp?


----------



## Stillhart

cheeno50 said:


> other than headphones... What would you guys recommend for a source?
> 
> Which would be the best sound card for cs:go/ music.
> 
> Or the best dac/amp?


 
  
 Sound Blaster Z or Omni are pretty good bang for your buck.


----------



## cheeno50

im considering soundblaster for sure. What would be the top 4 gaming headphones under 1k$ in your guys' opinions?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> But... but...he cooks!



Sure, and you get to taste every meal (that you get down your throat) TWICE as it comes back up!

It's okay Axel, you've still got me and my car that smells like chocolate. We can wear newsboy caps together!







cheeno50 said:


> im considering soundblaster for sure. What would be the top 4 gaming headphones under 1k$ in your guys' opinions?



3 of my top four favourites under $1k are AKG brand, if that tells you anything. Those and more are reviewed on the first post of this thread.


----------



## martin vegas

Can't order the X7 anywhere in England, don't no why? I can get everything else done by creative in my local stores!!!


----------



## rudyae86

martin vegas said:


> Can't order the X7 anywhere in England, don't no why? I can get everything else done by creative in my local stores!!!


 
 Because it is not released yet...it has been said to be released in december.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Ok so i looked at the original post and didnt catch this anywhere but how do I get chat with a xbox one? I have a mixamp connected to the xbox one via optical and my headphones connected to my fiio 09k in between the mix amp....


----------



## cheeno50

Is the sound blaster zxr worth getting for gaming and music? How does it compare to the z and asus stx?


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> Ok so i looked at the original post and didnt catch this anywhere but how do I get chat with a xbox one? I have a mixamp connected to the xbox one via optical and my headphones connected to my fiio 09k in between the mix amp....


 
 You need to buy the Xbox One headset adapter and then run a 2.5mm cable from the mixamp to your controller.


----------



## Evshrug

jason bourne said:


> Ok so i looked at the original post and didnt catch this anywhere but how do I get chat with a xbox one? I have a mixamp connected to the xbox one via optical and my headphones connected to my fiio 09k in between the mix amp....



The reason why is the OP doesn't have an Xbox One. I don't either (go with what Stillhart said), but what I have heard is that you have to buy extra stuff and have fewer settings options than with the 360.





cheeno50 said:


> Is the sound blaster zxr worth getting for gaming and music? How does it compare to the z and asus stx?



The OP only has a laptop, one he can connect a console to. This is primarily a console and headphone review thread, for soundcard's ask at NamelessPFG's thread that was linked in the first post.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Astro Mix amp question. 
 Has anyone run the mixamp into a 2nd amp. 
 In some games when using chat the volume us super low and I have volume turned up to 100% on the amp, and the game/chat mix ratio is about 98% to 2%. 
 I would like some extra amping for this. 
  
 ALSO I have some headphones like Q701s that need a little more to really shine (also looking into stuff like the HD650 which I am pretty sure would require amping) 
  
 I am looking into getting a amp for home use and running the astro mix amp 3. headphone out to RCA into another amp. This wold also cut done on me switching headphones jacks every two seconds I want to listen to music, watch tv, and play games. (I use headphones 95% of the time at home, but I am switching between 3 different crappy amps right now)
 Astro for gaming. sub 100$ surround sound amp for TV and movies not even really meant for headphones, and a Behringer UCA202/BravoV2 for music (decent but noisy as hell. Fun but not ideal for everyday listening). 
  
So my biggest question is: Astro Mix amp to secondary amp. What do you think?


----------



## famibica

Anyone tested the NAD HP50, maybe Mad Lust xD? im close to buy one pair haha but i have doubts about the gaming sounds in comparisson with these ones. =P


----------



## Evshrug

I use an amp (nice +$200 tube amp) with my surround devices often, though in my case I can use a USB mic with my Playstation so I use the DSS (which has less background noise than a Mixamp). I connected an amp to the Recon3D USB too.

I just sold my Q701 three days ago (was still happy with it but I had 3 AKG's), if I just had a Q701 and wanted an amp I'd buy a Project Starlight or similar from Garage1217. Or save up for something higher end.

I'll probably pick up the SoundBlaster X7 after it comes out, it'll be $350-400 when it comes out; kind of on the expensive side, but considering all the features it seems like a fair price (I can make use of most of them and replace many separate devices). The soundcards dropped about $50, but only after holding strong for several months and I don't know if $50 savings is worth waiting half a year before enjoying it. I'll probably keep my tube amp anyway as an option, rolling tubes is fun and the sound has a touch of "magic" or euphoria to it.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

evshrug said:


> I use an amp (nice +$200 tube amp) with my surround devices often, though in my case I can use a USB mic with my Playstation so I use the DSS (which has less background noise than a Mixamp). I connected an amp to the Recon3D USB too.
> 
> I just sold my Q701 three days ago (was still happy with it but I had 3 AKG's), if I just had a Q701 and wanted an amp I'd buy a Project Starlight or similar from Garage1217. Or save up for something higher end.
> 
> I'll probably pick up the SoundBlaster X7 after it comes out, it'll be $350-400 when it comes out; kind of on the expensive side, but considering all the features it seems like a fair price (I can make use of most of them and replace many separate devices). The soundcards dropped about $50, but only after holding strong for several months and I don't know if $50 savings is worth waiting half a year before enjoying it. I'll probably keep my tube amp anyway as an option, rolling tubes is fun and the sound has a touch of "magic" or euphoria to it.


 
 none of those are options for me. I live in Japan. options are vastless different, and often limited depending on your budgget. 
 A USB mic is out of the question. I game with a boom mic using the M100s or X1. 
  
 Using a USB mic you get simulated surround like the turtle beach or astro gives you with the Dolby headphone technology?


----------



## Stillhart

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Astro Mix amp question.
> Has anyone run the mixamp into a 2nd amp.
> In some games when using chat the volume us super low and I have volume turned up to 100% on the amp, and the game/chat mix ratio is about 98% to 2%.
> I would like some extra amping for this.
> ...


 
  
 Double amping the mixamp is definitely viable and often times suggested.  There's a section of the guide dedicated to inexpensive amps you could use with it.  I'd suggest starting there.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I use an amp (nice +$200 tube amp) with my surround devices often, though in my case I can use a USB mic with my Playstation so I use the DSS (which has less background noise than a Mixamp). I connected an amp to the Recon3D USB too.
> 
> I just sold my Q701 three days ago (was still happy with it but I had 3 AKG's), if I just had a Q701 and wanted an amp I'd buy a Project Starlight or similar from Garage1217. Or save up for something higher end.
> 
> I'll probably pick up the SoundBlaster X7 after it comes out, it'll be $350-400 when it comes out; kind of on the expensive side, but considering all the features it seems like a fair price (I can make use of most of them and replace many separate devices). The soundcards dropped about $50, but only after holding strong for several months and I don't know if $50 savings is worth waiting half a year before enjoying it. I'll probably keep my tube amp anyway as an option, rolling tubes is fun and the sound has a touch of "magic" or euphoria to it.


 
 Bruh, they are currently at 80 to 90 on amazon right now...the Z cards of course. BF they will drop to that again. I just hate how amazon does this all the time.....but eh, i can wait...getting a Z card for PC only and I will buy a better DAC and AMP and use optical to pass through the Z cards amp.
  
 but thats later though lol
  
 edit: i really want to try a tube amp though....hmmmmm


----------



## Jason Bourne

stillhart said:


> You need to buy the Xbox One headset adapter and then run a 2.5mm cable from the mixamp to your controller.


 
  
 ^^^ Thanks for the info. Ok I got that part but what about chat itself, ie. talking through a mic.... How would I connect a mic to chat?


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> ^^^ Thanks for the info. Ok I got that part but what about chat itself, ie. talking through a mic.... How would I connect a mic to chat?


 
  
 You have a Y cable going into the Mixamp with heaphone and Mic plugged in on one end and the Mixamp on the other.
  
 Go check out the picture in the guide on the first page of this thread called "Info, and how to attach external amps...".  Then just leave out the amp and amp cable.


----------



## Jason Bourne

stillhart said:


> You have a Y cable going into the Mixamp with heaphone and Mic plugged in on one end and the Mixamp on the other.
> 
> Go check out the picture in the guide on the first page of this thread called "Info, and how to attach external amps...".  Then just leave out the amp and amp cable.


 
  
 Right, I completely forgot I had bought one of these (link below) and had it stored incase I wanted to start using chat with my Beyerdynamic DT990's. 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/
  
 Thanks again for the post's... just needed a reminder it turns out on how to make it all work  Now I guess I need to get a mic!
  
 EDIT: Although I should mention I have the older mix amp... I think maybe 2011? edition... that make any difference? The controller in on my mix amp looks like an awfully small input... its definitely not a 3.5mm input...
  
 EDIT, Again: Searched around & looks like I will need a 2.5mm cable for the controller in on the older mixamp like I have, not a biggy.


----------



## Yethal

> EDIT: Although I should mention I have the older mix amp... I think maybe 2011? edition... that make any difference? The controller in on my mix amp looks like an awfully small input... its definitely not a 3.5mm input...
> 
> EDIT, Again: Searched around & looks like I will need a 2.5mm cable for the controller in on the older mixamp like I have, not a biggy.


 
 I have this one too. Don't plug the adapter, plug it in the headphones port (left of the controller port) the 2.5mm input is for xbox360 chat (can also be used with PS4)


----------



## Plexon

Heyo.
  
 Just wanted to first say at how awesome of a thread this is, great job man, keep it up!
  
 Second, I was wondering if you could help me center my view at what pair of headphones I could get.
  
 Im looking for a closed headset, because I dont want the sound to leak into my mic.
  
 I'm looking to use the pair of headphones mostly for gaming purposes. (CSGO BF3 BF4)
  
 I dont really care for a huge amount of bass, because I skype with friends every day when I play, so I need something thats good for gaming/skype, not just solo gaming.
  
 Ill be attaching a modmic to the headset.
  
 I can also purchase the Magni/Modi combo if needed.
  
 My budget is around 275-315 USD.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Yethal

plexon said:


> Heyo.
> 
> Just wanted to first say at how awesome of a thread this is, great job man, keep it up!
> 
> ...


 
 Most of us use open headphones and there is no sound leaking to the mic problem. What kind of soundcard do You have?


----------



## Plexon

I have an MSI motherboard that comes with a soundcard.
  
 Its called the z87-g45. I plan to use an external AMP/DAc though.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

Sorry if I missed this in my time away from the thread, but has anyone tried the Astro mixamp M80 with another headset other than the A40s? Is it even possible? Again, sorry if this has been asked.


----------



## Attis85

Hey guys
  
 First of all I have to mention this thread is fantastic!
  
 I would like to buy a pair of headphones for my ps4.
 Would you recommend the Scullcandy Plyr 1 or maybe something else?
 I was thinking about stereo headphones but then I have to buy an amp as well.
 I will buy one later for  my PC for movies and music,but I think for ps4 I'm going to buy a gaming headset.
 What do you think?


----------



## m50man

attis85 said:


> Hey guys
> 
> First of all I have to mention this thread is fantastic!
> 
> ...


 
 Don't expect good sound quality from a gaming headset.  I wouldn't even expect average quality to be honest.  If you're looking for good sound quality buy a good pair of headphones.  I just recently purchased the AKG K712 pro's for gaming on my PS4... and it is just ridiculously good.  Feels like the game is in the room with you.  Gaming headsets are generally recognized to have poor sound quality no matter how you are using them or what you are using (even the expensive $300 Astro headsets sound like crap IMO).


----------



## m50man

m50man said:


> Don't expect good sound quality from a gaming headset.  I wouldn't even expect average quality to be honest.  If you're looking for good sound quality buy a good pair of headphones.  I just recently purchased the AKG K712 pro's for gaming on my PS4 (using them with a DSS + amp)... and it is just ridiculously good.  Feels like the game is in the room with you.  Gaming headsets are generally recognized to have poor sound quality no matter how you are using them or what you are using (even the expensive $300 Astro headsets sound like crap IMO).


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> Right, I completely forgot I had bought one of these (link below) and had it stored incase I wanted to start using chat with my Beyerdynamic DT990's.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-MUYHSMFF-Headset-Splitter-Adapter/dp/B004SP0WAQ/
> 
> ...


 
  
 I mentioned that it was 2.5mm above.  That's the port that goes to the controller.  The other port is the one with the Y adaptor for mic and headphones.
  


plexon said:


> Heyo.
> 
> Just wanted to first say at how awesome of a thread this is, great job man, keep it up!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Check out the Soundmagic HP100/HP150.  Closed headset, very good for gaming, very balanced sound (i.e. not bass-heavy).
  


m50man said:


> Don't expect good sound quality from a gaming headset.  I wouldn't even expect average quality to be honest.  If you're looking for good sound quality buy a good pair of headphones.  I just recently purchased the AKG K712 pro's for gaming on my PS4... and it is just ridiculously good.  Feels like the game is in the room with you.  Gaming headsets are generally recognized to have poor sound quality no matter how you are using them or what you are using (even the expensive $300 Astro headsets sound like crap IMO).


 
  
 Actually, the PLYR1 is pretty highly reviewed in this guide.  It's a pretty good bang for the buck if you don't have a lot to spend.
  
 Speaking of which, recommending a headphone that costs 4x as much is maybe not super helpful.


----------



## Attis85

Thanks for the quick answer.
 Honestly I was afraid that will be the answer...I chose Philips Fidelio X1 for the next stereo headphone (I have a pair of Shure SRH440 now).
 If I will get the X1 I would need an amp for the PS4 and I am totally confused which one would be the best.
 I didn't read good things about mixamp or the other stuff.
 I found Emotiva XDA-2 ( https://emotiva.com/products/dacs/xda-2 ) and it has optical input so I could use it with the PS4 and PC too.
 Maybe that would be a good choise?


----------



## Yethal

plexon said:


> I have an MSI motherboard that comes with a soundcard.
> 
> Its called the z87-g45. I plan to use an external AMP/DAc though.


 
 Check in the audio panel whether the card has virtual surround built in. If it does buy an optical dac and amp to pair it with. If it doesn't buy a cheap PCI/PCIe card and connect dac/amp to that


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> Check in the audio panel whether the card has virtual surround built in. If it does buy an optical dac and amp to pair it with. If it doesn't buy a cheap PCI/PCIe card and connect dac/amp to that


 

 It has sbx already built into the motherboard!!!


----------



## IcyRhythms

I asked this in another thread. I guess it doesn't hurt to get a second opinion from other gamers.
  
 I have the Sennheiser 598's coupled with a Sound Blaster Z. I was looking to possibly add a DAC(maybe the amp from same company as well)to my audio setup.
  
 DAC I have my eyes on 
http://schiit.com/products/modi
  
  
 The amp
http://schiit.com/products/magni
  
 Would I get any considerable difference by adding these to my setup? Everything will be used for gaming and listening to music. To add to this, I'm also now considering the purchase of a new set of headphones.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/beyerdynamic-880-Premium-250-ohm/dp/B000F2BLTM
  
 http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-K712PRO-Headphones/dp/B00E4WXWBE/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8
  
 Those are the two I'm looking at but I would still like some feedback on my original question. Would a Schitt stack make a considerable difference coupled with SB Z and my 598's?


----------



## Stillhart

I tried the optical Modi with my Omni (same as the Z but external) and returned it after hearing no difference.  The DAC in the Z/Omni is quite decent and you're going to need to go a step above the Modi if you want to hear an improvement.
  
 I ended up getting a used Audio-GD NFB-15.32, which cost about the same as the Schiit Stack after shipping and tax.  The DAC sounded noticeably better than the Modi or Omni.
  
 If you wanted to just amp, the Magni will definitely give you a lot more power than the Z.  I haven't heard it so I can't comment on how it will sound.
  
 Personally, I think the A-GD is a steal and worth the price even new.  I'd recommend that.
  
 Regarding your headphones, the 598 is pretty good for gaming and I don't think the others will be much of an upgrade.  For music, tho, I suspect the K712 will be a step up.  Caveat:  I haven't personally heard the 598 or the Beyers or the K712.


----------



## IcyRhythms

stillhart said:


> I tried the optical Modi with my Omni (same as the Z but external) and returned it after hearing no difference.  The DAC in the Z/Omni is quite decent and you're going to need to go a step above the Modi if you want to hear an improvement.
> 
> I ended up getting a used Audio-GD NFB-15.32, which cost about the same as the Schiit Stack after shipping and tax.  The DAC sounded noticeably better than the Modi or Omni.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, it will be used for both gaming and music. It's a tough call. I guess I can take the Audio-GD into consideration as well. Thanks for the helpful response.


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Check in the audio panel whether the card has virtual surround built in. If it does buy an optical dac and amp to pair it with. If it doesn't buy a cheap PCI/PCIe card and connect dac/amp to that
> ...


 
 So, a dac/amp combo it is!


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> So, a dac/amp combo it is!


 

 If it was me I would just do what Evshrug said and check out the Soundmagic HP100/HP150..i wouldn't bother with dac/amp combo and just use his soundblaster if the soundmagic aren't that hard to drive!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > So, a dac/amp combo it is!
> ...


 
 I know that integrated soundcards evolved past the terrible realtek my old pc has, but they still are mediocre at best.


----------



## IcyRhythms

If my MOBO has optical out, I could get rid of the Sound Blaster Z as well, correct? Or it recommended to have a soundcard coupled with DAC and AMP?


----------



## Stillhart

icyrhythms said:


> If my MOBO has optical out, I could get rid of the Sound Blaster Z as well, correct? Or it recommended to have a soundcard coupled with DAC and AMP?


 
  
 Optical out doesn't necessarily mean it does surround processing.  Make sure it has decent surround processing before ditching the Z.


----------



## IcyRhythms

stillhart said:


> Optical out doesn't necessarily mean it does surround processing.  Make sure it has decent surround processing before ditching the Z.


 
 I wouldn't know if this means good or bad. I'm assuming decent at best but this is from my mobo's spec page:
  
Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC featuring Crystal Sound 2
- Supports : Jack-detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel MIC Jack-retasking
*Audio Feature :*
- Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound
- DTS Ultra PC II
- DTS Connect
- Optical S/PDIF out port(s) at back panel
- Audio Shielding: Ensures precision analog/digital separation and greatly reduced multi-lateral interference
- Dedicated audio PCB layers: Separate layers for left and right channels to guard the quality of the sensitive audio signals
- Audio amplifier: Provides the highest-quality sound for headphone and speakers
- Premium Japanese-made audio capacitors: Provide warm, natural and immersive sound with exceptional clarity and fidelity
- Unique de-pop circuit: Reduces start-up popping noise to audio outputs
- Top notch audio sensation delivers according to the audio configuration
- EMI protection cover to prevent electrical noise to affect the amplifier quality


----------



## Stillhart

Not a single mention of surround processing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Have you guys seen the "new" AKG K7XXX? (yes, that's its name so far) Should be interesting for all those wanting to get those AKG K/Q7 series.


----------



## kman1211

fegefeuer said:


> Have you guys seen the "new" AKG K7XXX? (yes, that's its name so far) Should be interesting for all those wanting to get those AKG K/Q7 series.




I haven't heard about it, but I looked it up. The K7XX looks like a limited edition all black(and gray?) version of the K712 and Annie. I'm curious if it sounds the same as the K712 or not.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Not a single mention of surround processing.


 
 Realtek alc1150!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the love of headphones, AKG stop making 7xxx variants.

Pretty sure the KXXX was the name of the K812 before full reveal.


----------



## Plexon

Ey yo Envy!
  
 Is the DT 770 + Modi/Magni combo a good setup for games like CSGO and mumble, and a little of BF3/BF4?


----------



## Stillhart

plexon said:


> Ey yo Envy!
> 
> Is the DT 770 + Modi/Magni combo a good setup for games like CSGO and mumble, and a little of BF3/BF4?


 
 Yes.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Yes.


 

 He won't get sbx surround sound if he uses the soundblaster through the dac and amp will he?..it's normally just stereo!!!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> He won't get sbx surround sound if he uses the soundblaster through the dac and amp will he?..it's normally just stereo!!!


 
  
 You need a DAC with optical input.  The SB will act as a DSP and send the processed sound via stereo through the optical output. 
  
 Source:  my current setup works that way.


----------



## Plexon

So what do you guys suggest? I get the DT 770 250ohm and the Magni Modi Combo?
  
 Also, if I get that, do I need to purchase any other cables to connect to my pc?


----------



## Stillhart

plexon said:


> So what do you guys suggest? I get the DT 770 250ohm and the Magni Modi Combo?
> 
> Also, if I get that, do I need to purchase any other cables to connect to my pc?


 
  
 Looking back at some of your posting history.  You don't have a soundcard, just a motherboard with onboard sound.  
  
 Have we determined if it has surround sound?  If so, you probably don't need the Schiit stack at all for the DT770.  You could amp with just the Magni if needed.  An Optical Modi might work if you mobo passes the processed sound thru optical (dirver-dependent, no idea if this will work for your setup) and it may not offer much improvement depending how good the DAC on your mobo is.
  
 If your mobo doesn't do surround, you'll probably want a sound card to process your surround.  I'd recommend a Sound Blaster Z or Omni.  Again, don't think you'll need an amp with it.  But if you want one, just get the Magni and forget about the Modi.  The Modi isn't better than what's in the SBZ.
  
 If you don't care about surround, just get a Schiit stack and be done with it.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Looking back at some of your posting history.  You don't have a soundcard, just a motherboard with onboard sound.
> 
> Have we determined if it has surround sound?  If so, you probably don't need the Schiit stack at all for the DT770.  You could amp with just the Magni if needed.  An Optical Modi might work if you mobo passes the processed sound thru optical (dirver-dependent, no idea if this will work for your setup) and it may not offer much improvement depending how good the DAC on your mobo is.
> 
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

I'm not watching a 13m video.  What's the relevant point here?


----------



## Plexon

It has sound blaster cinema surround sound.


----------



## starv3d

hello!!!!
 im taking the first steps in quality audio, and i want you help if possible
 i have a 200€tops for a headphone 150€ is where im more comfortable. i can only buy in EU shops 
 i cant decide between AKG k612 /sennheiser hd 598  /beyrdynamics dt990, recommend others if u think are more suitable 
 For sound card i will get asus xonar u7/ SOUND BLASTER X-FI HD/SoundBlaster Omni  wich better?
  
 i currently have a superlux 681 evo i like the sound but the lead singer voice is overpowered by the background sounds making a bit wied to hear more vocal songs 
  
 im not a bass-head i want headphones for music mostly and gaming (bf4) not hardcore gamer but still want to know from where im getting shot from trying to get the most immersive experience as possible.
 my music tip is EDM/POP/ROCK a bit of everything
  
 if someone could enlightenment me i really appreciate 
  
  
 thanks
 Starv3d


----------



## Evshrug

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> none of those are options for me. I live in Japan. options are vastless different, and often limited depending on your budget.
> 
> A USB mic is out of the question. I game with a boom mic using the M100s or X1.
> 
> Using a USB mic you get simulated surround like the turtle beach or astro gives you with the Dolby headphone technology?



I think you misunderstood me... Which is okay, your English is better than my Nihingo!

Point #1:
Plugging amp into Mixamp–type thing is Recommended!

Point #2:
The Mixamp's headphone jack has 3 audio channels: Left-ear output, Right-ear output, and microphone (mic) input. All amplifiers (that I know of) do not have the ability to pass the mic audio through. Therefore, you need a way to route the mic AROUND the amp. You can:
*A*: buy a cheap adapter that separates the mic channel from the L/R audio channel, and plug a cheap clip-on or "lapel" mic into the adapter.

*B*: buy the same adapter as above that separates the mic channel, and buy another adapter that does the opposite (brings the mic channel and L/R audio channels back together), literally wiring the mic channel around the amp and putting all the channels back together, and then plugging in your BoomPro (this means a mess of wires for your system, but HEY! You get to keep using the boompro!).

*C:* buy a USB Microphone, like a Blue Snowball or Samson Go Mic, and plug it straight into the PS4. The PS4 will use the mic for chat audio, and the Mixamp will only be used for processing surround audio (and you plug an amp and then headphones into that).

I wish it was easier, but the Mixamp wasn't designed to easily be used with nice headphones. Option A is the most simple and your Mixamp may even have come with the adapter, but I'm describing all the options I know of so you can make your own choice.





rudyae86 said:


> Bruh, they are currently at 80 to 90 on amazon right now...the Z cards of course. BF they will drop to that again. I just hate how amazon does this all the time.....but eh, i can wait...getting a Z card for PC only and I will buy a better DAC and AMP and use optical to pass through the Z cards amp.
> 
> but thats later though lol
> 
> edit: i really want to try a tube amp though....hmmmmm



Yeah, and the Soundblaster Z was initially released costing around $150, so... Thanks for proving my point? Even now the SB products have gone back up in price to about $50-$70 below the original price.

Again, my point was it took many months to see a price drop, the options are to wait for like half a year for $50 savings, wait even longer AND put in effort checking for flash sales to get $60-$75 savings, or just buy it near release for the sake of convenience and the pleasure of enjoying it right away.

The other thing to consider is that the X7 will be a flagship product, so you probably won't have a want to replace it unless you fall into financial hardship (always make sure you have enough money, and squirrel away some savings!).

If someone only plays on PC, then yeah just get a Soundblaster Omni (SBX, better standalone capability, Mac OS X compatible) or Asus U3 and later on add an amp then add an optical DAC, but for console gamers the X7 will be aguably a better option than even a home theater receiver because it has more gaming features.


----------



## Evshrug

plexon said:


> It has sound blaster cinema surround sound.




I always found Paul to sound somewhat soothing to listen to.

@2:40 we see the back of the box and, yep, mention of Soundblaster Cinema Surround, but the marketing is "better sound" not specifically "surround processing for headphones." If somebody is in the market for a new motherboard (why are you on this thread?), then I'd advise looking at the product page and researching Soundblaster "Cinema" surround and make sure it processes surround for headphones and isn't just a nice EQ effect or notation that it routes audio through the standard three speaker 3.5mm jacks (Front L/R, Rear L/R, Center/Subwoofer).


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I think you misunderstood me... Which is okay, your English is better than my Nihingo!
> 
> Point #1:
> Plugging amp into Mixamp–type thing is Recommended!
> ...


 
  
  
 I actually said the price of 80 to 90 bucks because you said it currently is sold at around 50. Just had to make a correction about the current price. Now, as to waiting for a price drop...we are talking about 2 weeks left before fridat.....wouldnt it be more logical to wait for the price dro? Ccc shows it happend last year so it could happen again. Now, if it was back in april that i was planning on purchasing the z card, then it would be a different story. like i stated, i was talking about now...not later, not before...but soon or now lol.
  
 now, you dont want people having buyers remorse do you? lol I build a PC back in May/June...i couldnt wait....and seeing how prices are going to be....it really isnt much different unless you are getting more expensive hardware, in which you may save more money. plus every cent counts. saving 5 bucks can be used for lunch....or a cheap case fan lol


----------



## Evshrug

Rudy,
I'm speculating that the *X7* will take a while to drop in price once it's released. That speculation was based off the history of how the ZxR, Z, and Omni held MSRP for several months, and that the price on those only dropped on average by $50-$60 bucks, reaching the prices which they remain at today that you quoted.

Again, for people reading the thread, if you play on consoles AND you're looking for an upgrade over a Mixamp, the X7 looks like it will be cool when it's released, and it will probably be awhile before it's price drops. If it's your first surround processor, a Mixamp/DSS/Recon3D USB may be enough to satisfy you at an entry-level. IF, LIKE RUDY, you only want a PC option, go ahead and get the devices out now or look for a sale which may happen (didn't last year, I got the Omni on sale in like... January or Feburary).

I always go back to talking about consoles because the topic of this thread is headphone surround for consoles, and I assume people read these posts after searching for that topic.


----------



## Yethal

Just to show off a little bit, I just did the soundstage/foam mod on my 598s. This is how they look now:
 Didn't have the chance to play using them yet, but I'll post my impressions when I do.


----------



## rudyae86

Ooops sorry EV....i was on my phone when l posted that lol. My phone was really sluggish for some reason and wouldnt let me delete part of it . Need new phone i guess.
  
 Yeah, the only reason I want a Z card for my pc only is because I dont like switching out back and foward with my recon3d amd like it to be just for consoles, wgile the Z card will be enough for the PC gaming.
  
 On the other hand, if I had the money for the X7.....i would sell my recon3d asap and jump on the x7 and by this time, i wouldnt mind switching it bavk and foward between consoles. Plus the sound quality may be even better than the recon3d. Plus the added features, like an amp for bookshelf speakers, which I hope by next year ill be able to purchase.


----------



## Evshrug

Rudy,
And I know you'll like the fact that the price for a Recon3D USB has gone up... I forgot that you had one of those.
I do believe that, if your console and computer are next to eachother, there's enough input options to leave both plugged in. Here's hoping anyway. But yeah, if hooking the Recon3D up again every time is a pain (I don't like reconnecting my PS4 between bedroom and game room right now), then you'd be solid with a Z or Omni. Good luck on sale prices!

Maybe try restoring your phone's software? That can help if just quitting apps and restarting the phone doesn't improve it anymore.


Yethal,
That actually looks pretty awesome, looking forward to impressions 
I always thought the bold look of the HD598 was handsome.


----------



## rage3324

What is a recommended amp for Beyerdynamic 770 Premium 600 ohm with a PS4 and Astro Mixamp Pro (2013) such that I can retain surround sound? I have a little dot mkiii that I can use but I'd like to move that to my dedicated setup for my grados. What additional cables will I need to support all of this?


----------



## Stillhart

rage3324 said:


> What is a recommended amp for Beyerdynamic 770 Premium 600 ohm with a PS4 and Astro Mixamp Pro (2013) such that I can retain surround sound? I have a little dot mkiii that I can use but I'd like to move that to my dedicated setup for my grados. What additional cables will I need to support all of this?


 
 If you know what headphones you want (or have already), questions about amp pairings are best in that headphone's specific thread.  It doesn't hatter that you're using it with a mixamp for the purposes of picking an amp that pairs well.


----------



## Evshrug

rage3324 said:


> What is a recommended amp for Beyerdynamic 770 Premium 600 ohm with a PS4 and Astro Mixamp Pro (2013) such that I can retain surround sound? I have a little dot mkiii that I can use but I'd like to move that to my dedicated setup for my grados. What additional cables will I need to support all of this?



Yes, what Stillhart said, though also look at the microphone audio routing discussion on this thread that went down yesterday.


----------



## Plexon

Does anyone know if the DT 990's wil leak enough sound to go back into a modmic?


----------



## AxelCloris

plexon said:


> Does anyone know if the DT 990's wil leak enough sound to go back into a modmic?


 
  
 Unless you listen to audio at levels that will quite literally leave you deaf then no, it won't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I havent heard any headphone that leaks enough for any mic to pick it up, except the He400 and HE4, which basically function as portable speakers either direction.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I havent heard any headphone that leaks enough for any mic to pick it up, except the He400 and HE4, which basically function as portable speakers either direction.


 
  
 I'm going to ask my wife about sound leakage from the HE-4.  I didn't think it was any worse than the Q701...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I'm going to ask my wife about sound leakage from the HE-4.  I didn't think it was any worse than the Q701...


 
  
 I can only imagine the response I'd get if I asked my wife about my leakage.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to ask my wife about sound leakage from the HE-4.  I didn't think it was any worse than the Q701...
> ...


 
 As long as You have a comfortable couch it should be fine.
 On the other hand
  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzfJncME6ss
  
 Here's a video on Creative X7. Unfortunately it's in German but at least we can take a look at the actual device. Are there any German speaking users here who would be willing to translate it into English?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would totally get the X7 if I could afford it, and if it was a 3ohm or less output impedance. I know output impedance isn't a huge factor, but it IS a factor, especially when spending $400.



stillhart said:


> I'm going to ask my wife about sound leakage from the HE-4.  I didn't think it was any worse than the Q701...




Been awhile since I've heard the HE-4, but having the HE400 not too long ago, I can say with no doubt, they can be heard throughout the entire house with the doors open. If a mic is omnidirectonal, chances are, they'll pick up the sound off those. FWIR, the HE-4 is even more open (Only being single sided magnets), so I don't see how they can leak less. As for the Q701, I didn't feel they leaked TOO badly. Definitely not HE400 level. Dynamic drivers don't have the potency as planars...


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> I'm going to ask my wife about sound leakage from the HE-4.  I didn't think it was any worse than the Q701...



Didn't? Do you not have it anymore? I found the HE-400 amusingly open. The Q701 leaked but les than Koss KSC-75's. If you ever used the HE-4 with your mic while gaming, I don't recall ever hearing game audio through your mic (just when you used speakers, and you confirmed that those were speakers).




yethal said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzfJncME6ss
> 
> Here's a video on Creative X7. Unfortunately it's in German but at least we can take a look at the actual device. Are there any German speaking users here who would be willing to translate it into English?



I think Fegefeuer posted it awhile ago... I don't speak German, but from what I recall and if this is the same vid, then it was pretty easy to follow and I said as much in the comments. Not really any new info from what you get on soundblaster.com/x7 just them saying it sounds great too.

The coolest part was seeing that Creative obviously had it set up to demo the X7 powering floor standing speakers.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Didn't? Do you not have it anymore? I found the HE-400 amusingly open. The Q701 leaked but les than Koss KSC-75's. If you ever used the HE-4 with your mic while gaming, I don't recall ever hearing game audio through your mic (just when you used speakers, and you confirmed that those were speakers).


 
  
 I didn't think it until Mad suggested otherwise.  I still have both.  
  
 I asked my wife and she said she's never noticed it.  But I don't game with the HE-4 so yeah.  With the Q701, she will sometimes hear what my friends are saying and respond.
  
 Anyways, I don't think the leakage is all that bad on the HE-4.  I don't think leakage on any open headphone I've ever heard is all that bad.  But everyone has their own ideas of "bad".


----------



## Evshrug

^ right, like some people can't leave the room to use headphones while someone is sleeping. Even then though, it's quiet enough to get used to... Gamers will be louder just in their natural cursing under their breath!


----------



## jtsanabria

I've been using the K712s for about a year now and love them. I'm looking to trade them in for something that has a similar sound but for less price. What do you guys think of the K612 or the Q701? Other options for under $275?


----------



## Evshrug

Q701 is similar but more soundstage and a bit more "hot," they aren't overly bright but the treble is a tad more "revealed." Sometimes you'll hear ambient sounds simply trick you into thinking they really just happened nearby. K612 is somewhere between the two but evenly balanced throughout.


But NONE OF THAT MATTERS OMG IM LISTENING TO STAX!


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Q701 is similar but more soundstage and a bit more "hot," they aren't overly bright but the treble is a tad more "revealed." Sometimes you'll hear ambient sounds simply trick you into thinking they really just happened nearby. K612 is somewhere between the two but evenly balanced throughout.
> 
> 
> But NONE OF THAT MATTERS OMG IM LISTENING TO STAX!


 
 Gotta love STAX. Electrostats are simply amazing. Just wish the price wasn't so daunting on so many of them. The STAX SRS-2170 system and Koss ESP 950 are good starters though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Creative guy basicall says: X7 is a 2014 Version of a High End Soundcard for Gamers and Audiophiles
 -connectivity above all, like smarpthone via BT/NFC, PC/NB-> USB 192 blablaa, analog in, input for high end mics, passive speakers, optical in/out, 
  
*SO BASICALLY HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SHARE WITH US AND JUST READS THE X7 PAGE FROM HIS MIND. I COULD DO IT TOO.*
  
 Unfortunately our niche is so small that not even tech editors from hardware sites can ask critical questions like AC3/DTS or future revisions with HDMI in etc. because they don't know chit and just plug their earbuds into the front panel.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> The Creative guy basicall says: X7 is a 2014 Version of a High End Soundcard for Gamers and Audiophiles
> -connectivity above all, like smarpthone via BT/NFC, PC/NB-> USB 192 blablaa, analog in, input for high end mics, passive speakers, optical in/out,
> 
> *SO BASICALLY HE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SHARE WITH US AND JUST READS THE X7 PAGE FROM HIS MIND. I COULD DO IT TOO.*
> ...


 
 Unfortunately. Well, thanks for clarifying that.


----------



## martin vegas

Got the AKG545 today what I have heard so far is they have a decent amount of bass with not that much impact and they are compfy headphones ..got them for a good price £113, I have tried them out of the ps4 controller and they sound good through that!


----------



## IcyRhythms

Can someone fill me in on what the "X7" is? I've seen it brought up many times in the last 20+ pages.


----------



## rudyae86

icyrhythms said:


> Can someone fill me in on what the "X7" is? I've seen it brought up many times in the last 20+ pages.




I hope you have at least looked at the cpuple of previous post. Evshrug posted a link to the x7 website. Tells you pretty much everything we know so far...we wont know much until its released. But to keep it simple.... Its like the recon3d but better and with more options and better quality internals.


----------



## Change is Good

The rumored price of the X7 makes it rather questionable, honestly. I'm going to feel bad for consuners if the sound quality isn't that different than the much cheaper Recons, when gaming. 

I mean... we're talking about game sound production, here, which is quite lacking on most games. No device can fix that, just like no $1000 DAC can fix a low bit rate music file.

Just saying...

If I'm wrong, oh well. I just have my doubts.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> The rumored price of the X7 makes it rather questionable, honestly. I'm going to feel bad for consuners if the sound quality isn't that different than the much cheaper Recons, when gaming.
> 
> I mean... we're talking about game sound production, here, which is quite lacking on most games. No device can fix that, just like no $1000 DAC can fix a low bit rate music file.
> 
> ...


 

 I think the X7 will sound like the sound blaster zxr with extra speaker terminals and a headphone hanger!!!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> The rumored price of the X7 makes it rather questionable, honestly. I'm going to feel bad for consuners if the sound quality isn't that different than the much cheaper Recons, when gaming.
> 
> I mean... we're talking about game sound production, here, which is quite lacking on most games. No device can fix that, just like no $1000 DAC can fix a low bit rate music file.
> 
> ...



Chances are good that it'll be an improvement. The Omni already sounded better and had a much more capable amp. It's a "upgrade" or "step-2" device for sure though, many people will be happy just sticking with the more than 10x cheaper Turtle Beach DSS off of eBay. But for people with harder to drive or less sensitive headphones, or people that can make use of the wide array of features, the X7 is a signal of our headphone niche expanding.

Indie and retro games withstanding, sample quality of game audio has been improving, particularly on BluRay disc games and the current-gen consoles with dedicated audio processors. Now, if the X7 will be out of your budget, then it'll be out of your budget, but eventually we'll see sales, trickle-down and competitive offerings, and heck budgets change too.


----------



## plats83

So I on and off lurk the thread a bit, but I hadn't seen much talk about them but did anyone have any thoughts about the Turtle Beach elite 800s? My lady has been looking for a new headset and she's torn between the a50 gen 2 and the turtle beach ones but there seems to be incredibly little information out there on both


----------



## Yethal

plats83 said:


> So I on and off lurk the thread a bit, but I hadn't seen much talk about them but did anyone have any thoughts about the Turtle Beach elite 800s? My lady has been looking for a new headset and she's torn between the a50 gen 2 and the turtle beach ones but there seems to be incredibly little information out there on both


 
 Using elimination method, going with elite 800s seems to be a better choice since a lot of people are complaining about the new a50s being slightly worse than the previous ones.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Chances are good that it'll be an improvement. The Omni already sounded better and had a much more capable amp. It's a "upgrade" or "step-2" device for sure though, many people will be happy just sticking with the more than 10x cheaper Turtle Beach DSS off of eBay. But for people with harder to drive or less sensitive headphones, or people that can make use of the wide array of features, the X7 is a signal of our headphone niche expanding.
> 
> Indie and retro games withstanding, sample quality of game audio has been improving, particularly on BluRay disc games and the current-gen consoles with dedicated audio processors. Now, if the X7 will be out of your budget, then it'll be out of your budget, but eventually we'll see sales, trickle-down and competitive offerings, and heck budgets change too.




Not out of my budget, so don't automatically assume. Just not worth it, to me...

Edit: I forgot, this is head-fi. People will spend $300 for a 2% increase in sound quality. I've fell victim to this, myself. Eventually, I realized that the small percentage of sound quality increase doesn't justify the amount of money being shelled out.


----------



## plats83

yethal said:


> Using elimination method, going with elite 800s seems to be a better choice since a lot of people are complaining about the new a50s being slightly worse than the previous ones.




I may just end up going with the elite 800s for her if that's the case even if info is a bit sparse on both. I'm kind of surprised at that but hey, sometimes you just have to jump in.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Not out of my budget, so don't automatically assume. Just not worth it, to me...
> 
> Edit: I forgot, this is head-fi. People will spend $300 for a 2% increase in sound quality. I've fell victim to this, myself. Eventually, I realized that the small percentage of sound quality increase doesn't justify the amount of money being shelled out.



Out of "a" budget, excuse me I meant "your" in a more general sense and not targeted at Change is Good specifically.

I would totally jump on the X7 if it was $300!


----------



## martin vegas

Been listening to AKG545 all day, just out of the ps4 controller been gaming and watching twitch with them..they have got just the right amount of bass for gaming,they have a nice clean sound nothing sounds harsh or muddy with a nice size soundstage but not as big as some..if anyones looking for a pair of headphones just for using straight out of the ps4's controller without a dac or headphone amp these are the ones to get!


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Trying to figure out my setup. Have learned so much from this thread and ya'lls responses. I've been narrowing things down and I know mostly what I want, but I'm still in need of some recommendations. Hope you smart peoples in this here thread can help. Here's a link to the thread I made.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/742213/recommendation-for-reciever-w-dolby-headphone-up-to-400


----------



## burritoboy9984

plats83 said:


> So I on and off lurk the thread a bit, but I hadn't seen much talk about them but did anyone have any thoughts about the Turtle Beach elite 800s? My lady has been looking for a new headset and she's torn between the a50 gen 2 and the turtle beach ones but there seems to be incredibly little information out there on both




I personally think DTSX > DH.


----------



## Stillhart

burritoboy9984 said:


> I personally think DTSX > DH.


 
  
 Everyone personally thinks that.  It's objectively much better.


----------



## Evshrug

burritoboy9984 said:


> I personally think DTSX > DH.



The only DTSX Headphone I've heard was the Hans Zimmer apps. The positioning was very believable, but I have yet to game with it.

I wonder how Sony's headphone surround is lately. On a recent wireless model, Sony's base unit has HDMI and optical inputs and passthrough outputs, and is able to make headphone surround from Dolby Digital Live, Dolby HD, DTS Master, etc, and the Amazon reviews are very positive (better than Sennheiser R170). Overall I just don't like wireless compromises much, but I'm sure many would like just such a setup.


----------



## burritoboy9984

evshrug said:


> The only DTSX Headphone I've heard was the Hans Zimmer apps. The positioning was good, but I have yet to game with it.




I bought and returned the 500P. They sounded awesome for gaming, but were some of the most uncomfortable headphones ever.

-Erik


----------



## plats83

burritoboy9984 said:


> I personally think DTSX > DH.




Elite 800s are DTSX right?

Guess all I have to find out now is mic quality.


----------



## Yethal

shadowskulkerer said:


> Trying to figure out my setup. Have learned so much from this thread and ya'lls responses. I've been narrowing things down and I know mostly what I want, but I'm still in need of some recommendations. Hope you smart peoples in this here thread can help. Here's a link to the thread I made.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/742213/recommendation-for-reciever-w-dolby-headphone-up-to-400


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/674798/brief-guide-to-marantz-av-receivers-with-dolby-headphone-hdmi
  
 Try here.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> The only DTSX Headphone I've heard was the Hans Zimmer apps. The positioning was very believable, but I have yet to game with it.
> 
> I wonder how Sony's headphone surround is lately. On a recent wireless model, Sony's base unit has HDMI and optical inputs and passthrough outputs, and is able to make headphone surround from Dolby Digital Live, Dolby HD, DTS Master, etc, and the Amazon reviews are very positive (better than Sennheiser R170). Overall I just don't like wireless compromises much, but I'm sure many would like just such a setup.


 
 what is this sony base unit you talke about? and headphone?
  
 not a fan of wireless but I just want to read on it


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> Chances are good that it'll be an improvement. The Omni already sounded better and had a much more capable amp. It's a "upgrade" or "step-2" device for sure though, many people will be happy just sticking with the more than 10x cheaper Turtle Beach DSS off of eBay. But for people with harder to drive or less sensitive headphones, or people that can make use of the wide array of features, the X7 is a signal of our headphone niche expanding.
> 
> Indie and retro games withstanding, sample quality of game audio has been improving, particularly on BluRay disc games and the current-gen consoles with dedicated audio processors. Now, if the X7 will be out of your budget, then it'll be out of your budget, but eventually we'll see sales, trickle-down and competitive offerings, and heck budgets change too.


 
  
 The ZxR is better than the Omni. Now imagine the ZxR having its very own power supply in the form of a X7. Should lead to cleaner output and better bass control. As I said, the ZxR can drive the HD 800 for gaming and movies very very fine while the Mixamp and others absolutely can't. What do I try to say with this? Get a HD 800 (yes!)? No, it means that you're getting quite a good package that hasn't been made before and you can be happy about it, even though the price isn't too attractive. 
  
 Now it's time for Sony to allow multichannel audio over USB then we can ignore AC3 and nobody needs to pay more. =D


----------



## rudyae86

This guy knows what we really want ^^^^^


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Rudy,
> And I know you'll like the fact that the price for a Recon3D USB has gone up... I forgot that you had one of those.
> I do believe that, if your console and computer are next to eachother, there's enough input options to leave both plugged in. Here's hoping anyway. But yeah, if hooking the Recon3D up again every time is a pain (I don't like reconnecting my PS4 between bedroom and game room right now), then you'd be solid with a Z or Omni. Good luck on sale prices!
> 
> ...


 
 Yes i do have one and yes, I have read that the Recon3D has gone up in price. But i will probably keep it for a while longer, at least until I can check out good reviews on the X7 and the price drops a bit...at least to the $300 range. If that happens, Ill gladly sell my Recon3D....but for now, It will do for my needs.


----------



## starv3d

starv3d said:


> hello!!!!
> im taking the first steps in quality audio, and i want you help if possible
> i have a 200€tops for a headphone 150€ is where im more comfortable. i can only buy in EU shops
> i cant decide between AKG k612 /sennheiser hd 598  /beyrdynamics dt990, recommend others if u think are more suitable
> ...


 
 bump
  
 someone?


----------



## Stillhart

starv3d said:


> bump
> 
> someone?


 
  
 You will be super happy with any of those.  Just flip a coin or buy the cheapest ones.  Don't overthink it at this point.


----------



## Plexon

Hey guys,
  
 Someone suggested DT 990s instead of the 770s because of "better soundstage for gaming".
  
 Well, my primary use of these headphones is for gaming, but the only thing Im worried about is the sound leaking back into the mic.
  
 Anyone have experience with DT 880s/990s with a ModMic?


----------



## Stillhart

plexon said:


> Does anyone know if the DT 990's wil leak enough sound to go back into a modmic?


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> Unless you listen to audio at levels that will quite literally leave you deaf then no, it won't.


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> I havent heard any headphone that leaks enough for any mic to pick it up, except the He400 and HE4, which basically function as portable speakers either direction.


 
  
 Asking again won't change the answer.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

yethal said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/674798/brief-guide-to-marantz-av-receivers-with-dolby-headphone-hdmi
> 
> Try here.


 
 Well it is a place to start.  Thank you for the link.  I don't know which might be best for my set of speakers and headphones but I guess I'll come back with some picks and ask around.  From what I've seen Marantz isn't the only option for receivers with dolby headphone.  I also need this to be under $400.  I guess I can find something on eBay.  I also don't know how good the DACs are in them...


----------



## Stillhart

shadowskulkerer said:


> Well it is a place to start.  Thank you for the link.  I don't know which might be best for my set of speakers and headphones but I guess I'll come back with some picks and ask around.  From what I've seen Marantz isn't the only option for receivers with dolby headphone.  I also need this to be under $400.  I guess I can find something on eBay.  I also don't know how good the DACs are in them...


 
 Harmon Kardon used to make them too.  I have one.  
  
 There are also a bevvy of modern units that have unlicensed versions of DH called things like "Headphone Surround" and "Silent Cinema".


----------



## Yethal

Little late but here are my impressions of soundstage modded HD598s. @Evshrug, sorry if my writing style isn't as good as MLE's or Jude's, I mostly deal in numbers, not words.
  
 Let's start with bass:
  
 Difference is not big, headphones didn't magically transform into some kind of Megabassozord but there is more of it. I noticed it immediately while watching latest episode of Sons of Anarchy. Both Jax's voice and the motorcycle engines sound fuller, the vibrations of both the voice and the engines are more pronounced.
 Nick Cave's Where the Wild Roses Grow are now a different song to me. Previously I could barely hear Nick's voice in the chorus and it sounded more like somebody added unnecessary reverb to Kylie's voice. Now I can clearly hear him singing along. If 598's bass was like an acoustic guitar then the modded 598's bass would be the same guitar but with thicker strings. A subtle but noticeable difference.
  
 The mids:
  
 Mids weren't affected as much as the bass. The whole "thicker strings on the same guitar" impression remained but it's less noticeable. Intro to An Inifnite Regression by Animals as Leaders sounds pretty much the same, maybe a little bit clearer. Meshuggah's Dancers to a Discordant System were more affected by the mod. The main guitar riff sounds more like an actual instrument playing in the room and less like a recording played through headphones.
 Overall, the instruments sound like somebody cranked the amps up to eleven while simultaneously keeping the volume on the same level. More sound in the same amount of decibels (I hope You guys get what I'm trying to say here)
  
 The highs:
 Either my ears are damaged from sitting in headphones all day or there is no audible difference . Fortunately they don't seem to sound any worse either.
  
 Soundstage:
  
 The whole reason for doing this mod. Well, to put it shortly the improvement is tremendous. I heard it best while listening to Nancy Sinatra's These Boots" The instruments are much more clearly separated now. The days of double bass blending with the guitar and the electric bass becoming inaudible after Nancy starts singing are gone.
  
 As for the games, I launched the Silent Hill demo (which I still keep on my HDD mostly to show people who come over that virtual surround is not a gimmick).
 First thing that stood up, the footsteps are now directly on the ground and not to the front of my character like they used to be. The clock makes a full circle around my head while rotating the camera instead of this weird elliptic shape. Unfortunately I had to stop the tests after about five minutes because I was getting real close to screaming like a little bitch.
  
 Next game on the list: Battlefield 4. I opened up the Firing Range. As was the case with P.T the soundstage changed from a slightly elliptical shape to a full circle. Moreover my own gunshots were positioned in front of me so naturally that for a moment I thought the sound was actually coming from the monitor's inbuilt speakers. Explosions haven't changed much though.
  
 I hope somebody will find this post useful. As for the mod itself it takes about 20-25 minutes for each cup. Keep in mind it's non-reversible.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

mista freeze 74 said:


> Sorry if I missed this in my time away from the thread, but has anyone tried the Astro mixamp M80 with another headset other than the A40s? Is it even possible? Again, sorry if this has been asked.


 
 i ran with the a40s only for nearly 3 years. dumb. just about $100 plus set of cans is better than the a40s. I use m100s, q701, and Phillips X1s (my favorite of the 3 for gaming). The bass is actully a bit much with the V-modas for gaming, but for certain games they are easily the best. m-80s rock.


----------



## famibica

Guys, im having doubts about what to buy, im between pc363d(because i dont know why the pc360 isnt available on germany anymore) and nad hp50, anybody can tell me which is better? i know one is headset and the other headphone but the question remains. Maybe the Turtle Beach XP Seven?
  
  
 Thanks for your time!


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

I'm wondering what the quality of the DACs in each of these rare DH capable Marantz receivers are. And what the quality of the headphone amp is. Can anyone speak to this latter question or make an educated guess?

Also, if I got a Yamaha receiver w/ Silent Cinema, which is VSP for headphones, would this work for the S/PDIF out from a XBox One, to headphones, and PC to headphones, with both games and movies?


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Another quick Astro Mix amp question. 
 I have two IEM that I love. They sound great in anything I plug them in... but the astro mix amp. 
 I just tried both of them for the first time in the mix amp they sounded like garbage. Absolute total garbage. 
 What is the output impedance of the Astro Mix amp? Is this the reason they sounded so bad? I think the IEMs have only a 10ohm impedance.


----------



## BigBadWulf

yethal said:


> ...
> I hope somebody will find this post useful. As for the mod itself it takes about 20-25 minutes for each cup. Keep in mind it's non-reversible.


 
 ...and I hope, that you know, that I think, that I will make this mod too, because it would be very useful. (once you show us how)
  
 Just one question, what cons have you found? I know, that in the first few moments, when everything works fine, it is difficult to see/hear the bad things.
  
 Making it a circle would be perfect, because in Stereo to surround emulations I always find that Ellipse. Most with a gap in the front of you, where the centersound is getting to Close. The rears are easy to simulate.
  
 So your mod would work with 598/558 and their Headset equivalent?
  
 Good Job!


----------



## cdsa35000

shadowskulkerer said:


> I'm wondering what the quality of the DACs in each of these rare DH capable Marantz receivers are. And what the quality of the headphone amp is. Can anyone speak to this latter question or make an educated guess?
> 
> Also, if I got a Yamaha receiver w/ Silent Cinema, which is VSP for headphones, would this work for the S/PDIF out from a XBox One, to headphones, and PC to headphones, with both games and movies?




I've the older MARANTZ SR5500 with DH1/2/3, in general receivers are designed mainly drive high power loudspeakers, so unless they specific have dedicated headphones (amp) out, then it's just a bypass from the FRONT L and R speaker power mosfet amp. directly with a (330 Ohms) resistor in series to headphone out. 
Means headphone output impedance is here higher than 330 Ohms, follow the 1/8 impedance rule you will need at least a higher than 330 Ohms headphones.
And since I don't have high impedance headphones, my high sensitive 102+ dB CD3000 32ohms/SA5000 70ohms have high noise hiss level (low S/N) because the direct mosfet tors are meant to drive 90Watts/8ohms loudspeakers. 

DH quality wise should all sound samey as they are the same processed protocols into DH1/2/3 specifications so depends more on headamp quality than DH decoder.
---
Silent Cinema is just Yamaha's own DH decoding tech to decode any 5.1 surround streams into Virtual Surround Headphone.
It can decode any S/PDIF/Digital Optical Toslink/Digital Coax with DolbyDigital/DD 5.1, DTS, DDL, DTS Connect audio streams from PC, XBOX, PS3/4 consoles, dvd/bluray with Digital outs into Silent Cinema etc.
XBone audio menu should be set to output Digital 5.1 and on PC soundcard with DDL=DolbyDigitalLive/DTS Connect are 5.1 surround encoders that will encode PC's 5.1 audio streams into Compressed DDL/DTSC 5.1 Digital streams. Since SPDIF Digital Audio bandwith is only capable of Uncompressed STEREO PCM or Compressed 5.1 DD/DTS.


----------



## Yethal

bigbadwulf said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 
 It's actually pretty simple
 Follow these instructions to take the headphones apart:
 http://www.headfonia.com/sennheisers-new-hd558-and-hd598/3/
 Next, bend the metal protrusions (visible on the sixth photo) outwards so thr grill can be taken out.
 Then cut the black foam with an x-acto knife (unfortunately it's glued to the plastic grill so it has to be done a segment at a time which is a bit tedious)
 Then assemble the cans back together.
  
 So far I haven't found any cons to this mod. There is the standard warranty void, and damage risk, but apart from that the only thing that comes to mind is dust gathering inside the cans.
  
 Dunno, from the pictures it looks like it will work.


----------



## Reckless95

starv3d said:


> bump
> 
> someone?


 
  
 I'm in love with my K712 Pros. I'll vote for the K612.


----------



## Evshrug

The K612 is very capable.


----------



## Yethal

starv3d said:


> starv3d said:
> 
> 
> > i cant decide between AKG k612 /sennheiser hd 598  /beyrdynamics dt990, recommend others if u think are more suitable
> ...


 
 Let Your wallet decide these are all great headphones.


----------



## starv3d

yethal said:


> Let Your wallet decide these are all great headphones.


 
 yah the problem is that they cost about the same, i was thinking that there would be some diference that help me chose but i dont know.
 i cant listen before buy so i can only go by reviews
 i discard the dt990 because they need good amping
 i like the hd598 but the lack of bass and the moding needed to make them better make me think twice, but their are more versatile from what i read can be played without amp.
 the akg look the best choice but i read that they have a signature sound to them so... but probably will go with the akg's
  
 and i think i will go with xonar u7 in paper have the best sound the x-fi hd is great but is on the market for the longest time
  
  
 thanks all from all your input


----------



## martin vegas

I know this hasn't got anything to do with headphones but why are all the ps4 ps+ games so garbage?


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> I know this hasn't got anything to do with headphones but why are all the ps4 ps+ games so garbage?


 
 Because they still hope to make some money on those that aren't.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

cdsa35000 said:


> I've the older MARANTZ SR5500 with DH1/2/3, in general receivers are designed mainly drive high power loudspeakers, so unless they specific have dedicated headphones (amp) out, then it's just a bypass from the FRONT L and R speaker power mosfet amp. directly with a (330 Ohms) resistor in series to headphone out.
> Means headphone output impedance is here higher than 330 Ohms, follow the 1/8 impedance rule you will need at least a higher than 330 Ohms headphones.
> And since I don't have high impedance headphones, my high sensitive 102+ dB CD3000 32ohms/SA5000 70ohms have high noise hiss level (low S/N) because the direct mosfet tors are meant to drive 90Watts/8ohms loudspeakers.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So in other words yes.  Headphone Surround should work...  *long breath in... long breath out*  I've been on a long journey here.  Going from zero knowledge of audio components and things to a basic understanding.  I thank everyone here once again for their help.  Now, another question.  After further research on receivers, this time concerning their headphone amps, and much of that information found in old threads on these very forums, I've decided I would rather have my own headphone amp.  But I still want surround processing for headphones with a good DAC.  Which as I understand isn't easy to obtain as the DAC and surround sound processing are sort of tied to each other. *crude explanation* So I go for say the X7, which is expensive for me and I don't know how good it all is, or I go for a receiver with a good DAC and DH or SilentCinema from Yamaha.  I believe a Realtek ALC 1150 will do the job of encoding DDL/DTSC as far as I could tell... I hope.
  
 So..  Can I.. use my own amp for headphones, with a receiver?  
  
 EDIT:  I Just saw this. Old thread.
  
 "Also Creative Labs just came out with a new computer sound card (Z-series) which has optical input.
 So you might be able to run optical from the xBox to the Creative Labs Z series sound card."
  
 I read something here that made me want to avoid these cards, but is the premise sound?  A PC sound card w/ optical input could take the audio from Xbox and process it through it's DSP and DAC, then feed it to speakers or headphones?  Could I or should I get a dedicated headphone amp this way?  I don't think you could make it just use one of the amps...  Soundcards with headphone amplifiers in them are at least designed for headphones for those given ports right?  This starts to look like a last ditch option to get everything I'm looking for w/ DTS and such.


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> I know this hasn't got anything to do with headphones but why are all the ps4 ps+ games so garbage?






yethal said:


> Because they still hope to make some money on those that aren't.




Or simply because the PS4 is relatively new and big-name games haven't depreciated or aged enough yet to be given away for free yet. I have enjoyed a few of the indie games so far, but the value of PS+ is nowhere near as strong as PS3 (free multiplayer) and PS+ deals for PS3 (larger library and more likelihood of good games you haven't tried).





shadowskulkerer said:


> So in other words yes.  Headphone Surround should work...  *long breath in... long breath out*  I've been on a long journey here.
> ...
> 
> *crude explanation* So I go for say the X7, which is expensive for me and I don't know how good it all is, or I go for a receiver with a good DAC and DH or SilentCinema from Yamaha.  I believe a Realtek ALC 1150 will do the job of encoding DDL/DTSC as far as I could tell... I hope.
> ...



Yes, you can. The output impedance becomes whatever the headphone amp's output is, because the amp itself is like a 10,000 ohm headphone.

This is your first surround device, DAC, and amp, no? And you're connecting HDMI to a projector? So any surround processor with an optical input will do, so I go back to my first advice from the thread of DH vs Silent Cinema and say just start with a Turtle Beach DSS. Costs $20-$30, has an optical input, alright DAC and amp, and you get a decent first setup. The amp is stronger than a Mixamp or Recon3D USB, DAC is about average but better than a motherboard-integrated audio DAC, and... It's just a small thingie that works. EBay it up! You can plug a headphone amp into it later if you want, and if later you want a high-end DAC (anything lower will be hard to hear an improvement) you can look at what options are available then for headphone surround... There may be more new options by then! We've all been using DSS/Mixamp quality-level DACs and Amps with good results for years.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh, and PC internal soundcard optical inputs can only understand stereo input, don't work with Dolby or DTS encoded audio streams. It's a licensing issue, only the Recon3D USB and X7 (notice that both of those are external units) are certified Dolby decoders, and also receivers are usually Dolby and DTS certified. The soundcard's may be able to OUTPUT in those formats, but not input.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Or simply because the PS4 is relatively new and big-name games haven't depreciated or aged enough yet to be given away for free yet. I have enjoyed a few of the indie games so far, but the value of PS+ is nowhere near as strong as PS3 (free multiplayer) and PS+ deals for PS3 (larger library and more likelihood of good games you haven't tried).


 
 Injustice: Gods Among Us is rumored to be in december's ps+


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Injustice: Gods Among Us is rumored to be in december's ps+


 
 Not rumors, it was announced.  Also Infamous First Light will be in January.
  
 Lemme see if I can find the link..   http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/11/04/sneak-peek-at-ps4-plus-lineup-for-dec-jan/


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

evshrug said:


> Or simply because the PS4 is relatively new and big-name games haven't depreciated or aged enough yet to be given away for free yet. I have enjoyed a few of the indie games so far, but the value of PS+ is nowhere near as strong as PS3 (free multiplayer) and PS+ deals for PS3 (larger library and more likelihood of good games you haven't tried).
> Yes, you can. The output impedance becomes whatever the headphone amp's output is, because the amp itself is like a 10,000 ohm headphone.
> 
> This is your first surround device, DAC, and amp, no? And you're connecting HDMI to a projector? So any surround processor with an optical input will do, so I go back to my first advice from the thread of DH vs Silent Cinema and say just start with a Turtle Beach DSS. Costs $20-$30, has an optical input, alright DAC and amp, and you get a decent first setup. The amp is stronger than a Mixamp or Recon3D USB, DAC is about average but better than a motherboard-integrated audio DAC, and... It's just a small thingie that works. EBay it up! You can plug a headphone amp into it later if you want, and if later you want a high-end DAC (anything lower will be hard to hear an improvement) you can look at what options are available then for headphone surround... There may be more new options by then! We've all been using DSS/Mixamp quality-level DACs and Amps with good results for years.




Connecting PC to passive speakers, headphones and a monitor. Same with XBox. But thank you I have been overcomplicating things. The other solution that presents itself to me is a good soundcard with optical input.


----------



## nayajoeun

Hey dudes,

To anyone using the DSS, what volume are you using it set to?

I've got mine plugged into a Emotiva Mini-x speaker amp >> LCd2s and get this occasional popping/crackling noise every now and then. 

Trying to isolate the cause.

On a side note, should I max volume the DSS and then control the volume using the amp? For keep the DSS volume low and turn the amp up?

Tyty


----------



## Evshrug

shadowskulkerer said:


> Connecting PC to passive speakers, headphones and a monitor. Same with XBox. But thank you I have been overcomplicating things. The other solution that presents itself to me is a good soundcard with optical input.



As long as you saw my other reply to you after you edited, internal soundcards only accept stereo input over optical. Good luck.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

evshrug said:


> As long as you saw my other reply to you after you edited, internal soundcards only accept stereo input over optical. Good luck.




Sorry to be cruder here, but gosh #$!!%#?!

So by hooking XBox into soundcard I can't get DH? Period? Optical out from XBox is the only solution. Turtle Beach DSS for XBox then... And how do I use my own mic with that? Like the modmic. The mic port on the controller will work right? I believe there was something about DSS2, if I got it, don't know if it's better, only working with turtle beach headsets. But if you have your own headphone and your own mic that isn't an issue right?


----------



## Yethal

shadowskulkerer said:


> Sorry to be cruder here, but gosh #$!!%#?!
> So by hooking XBox into soundcard I can't get DH? Period? Optical out from XBox is the only solution. Turtle Beach DSS for XBox then... And how do I use my own mic with that? Like the modmic. The mic port on the controller will work right? I believe there was something about DSS2, if I got it, don't know if it's better, only working with turtle beach headsets. But if you have your own headphone and your own mic that isn't an issue right?


 
 DSS outputs the sound via minijack + usb for voicechat so if You have a ps3/xbx 360 headset lying around somewhere then just plug the headset (minijack and the usb) into the dss. Stuff like the Steelseries Siberia Audiomixer or practically any other last gen dedicated console headset.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> DSS outputs the sound via minijack + usb for voicechat so if You have a ps3/xbx 360 headset lying around somewhere then just plug the headset (minijack and the usb) into the dss. Stuff like the Steelseries Siberia Audiomixer or practically any other last gen dedicated console headset.



Does USB work for Xbox One? Definitely didn't work for the 360 far as I tried (though I never owned a Turtle Beach headset). I was able to plug a USB mic into the DSS and use that with my PS4, which was pretty sweet.

I don't know the typical ways to hook up headphones and mic to an Xbox One besides a mixamp, unless Microsoft changed things, the Xbox One when it came out was missing the option to output chat audio through "speakers" (optical and HDMI) while a mic was plugged into the controller. If the XBone headset adapter for the controller has a separate mic port, you should be able to do it, but my friends who have XBones say that something about how the console auto detects what's plugged in with no manual controls makes getting it setup a 8!^< #.

Je parle français et je suis toute enragé!


----------



## JoeniiChan

Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting new headphones.
  
 The PC 350 SE ones I got sound tinny and I think there's something wrong with them. I'm considering the 558s, and I wonder how they are for gaming.


----------



## Japi95

.


----------



## conquerator2

Semi open maybe? I'd give the Phillips Fidelio L2 a look.


----------



## Japi95

.


----------



## conquerator2

ok


----------



## martin vegas

japi95 said:


> Thanks for the advice I might need to go to try out different headphones in a local store here in my own city, which is located on I did not buy a pig in a poke: D


 

 Get the AKG545!


----------



## rudyae86

joeniichan said:


> Hey guys, I'm thinking about getting new headphones.
> 
> The PC 350 SE ones I got sound tinny and I think there's something wrong with them. I'm considering the 558s, and I wonder how they are for gaming.




An amp is required to drive those PC 350 SE. Their impedance is at 150ohm. My Recon3D USB drives them ok, although an AMP would bring out a bit more from them. 

I currently own them and honestly, not a bad headset. Soundstage is ok for a closed headphone. Better than the a40s to some extent


----------



## JoeniiChan

rudyae86 said:


> An amp is required to drive those PC 350 SE. Their impedance is at 150ohm. My Recon3D USB drives them ok, although an AMP would bring out a bit more from them.
> 
> I currently own them and honestly, not a bad headset. Soundstage is ok for a closed headphone. Better than the a40s to some extent


 
  
 Do you think just getting the 558s and a mic would be a much better option for gaming?


----------



## hotbeef

Has anyone tried both the official microsoft headset adapter and the turtle beach ear force headset adapter, that comes with the xo one and four I believe, with the same headphones? Just wondering if one is better quality that the other. I game with Sennheiser Momentum over ears to a turtle beach DSS for my X1 and PS4 and have been wanting to add chat so I'm thinking of adding a modmic but I think occasionally (out of laziness) I would just run audio from the controllers so I was just wondering if that ear force adapter was any better or louder for sound (I know it has bass boost) than the factory microsoft one, which I thought was a bit quiet with the Microsoft stereo headset


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Only issue is I have no desire for a console headset. I'm already strongly set on the Fidelio X2 and the Modmic. Still trying to confirm though if you can not use the computer soundcard as a console virtual surround device. 

EDIT: nvm. It's been confirmed for me.


----------



## hotbeef

shadowskulkerer said:


> Only issue is I have no desire for a console headset. I'm already strongly set on the Fidelio X2 and the Modmic. Still trying to confirm though if you can not use the computer soundcard as a console virtual surround device.




Those X2's should be awesome. I had the X1's for about a year, still one of my favorite headphones to date. Super comfortable, incredible sound, and strong bass. There was something about the Momentums that pulled towards using those more (not sure what) but I ended up selling the X1's and keeping the momentums but I should've held on to them


----------



## chicolom

shadowskulkerer said:


> Only issue is I have no desire for a console headset. I'm already strongly set on the* Fidelio X2 and the Modmic*. Still trying to confirm though if you can not use the computer soundcard as a console virtual surround device.
> 
> EDIT: nvm. It's been confirmed for me.


 
  
  
 With the X2s and their 35.mm jack, I'd get the V-moda Boom mic instead.  Cleaner setup than the modmic.
  
 And NO, I believe most PC soundcards won't accept a 5.1 DD input from a console and thus won't work as a surround processor for an external console.  Most are 2 channel inputs on the optical in.


----------



## Change is Good

It's aliiiiiiiive!


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Wut?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> It's aliiiiiiiive!


 
  
 Someone hacked its account.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Btw is there anyway to get a mic to work with Xbox one without the **** headset adapter.

EDIT: Darn... Oh well. Will the boom pro noise cancel given a liitle work with a voip program?


----------



## Stillhart

shadowskulkerer said:


> Btw is there anyway to get a mic to work with Xbox one without the **** headset adapter.


 
  
 Nope.  This is one of the things I don't like about the Xbox one.  They nickel and dime you on the hardware.  It's a good thing the software is so good...


----------



## rudyae86

joeniichan said:


> Do you think just getting the 558s and a mic would be a much better option for gaming?




I suppose it could be a better set up. I mean, you will have some clutter with the wires. If you want to keep the the 350 SE, buy an amp, either way, down the road you will need one for other heaphones. Go for a Magni or Fiio e12. I currently have a fiio e11 that cost me 20 bucks used but like new. Not the best amp but good enough for my current needs. Im sure you will be able to find a good price on a used amp.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Wait a minute.. For passive speakers, you need an amp and a power supply for that amp? This just keeps getting more complicated.


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> With the X2s and their 35.mm jack, I'd get the V-moda Boom mic instead.  Cleaner setup than the modmic.
> 
> And NO, I believe most PC soundcards won't accept a 5.1 DD input from a console and thus won't work as a surround processor for an external console.  Most are 2 channel inputs on the optical in.




OMG man, it's been a few months since you were here!!! How've you been? Did you end up with the most awesome computer build in your life?
What do you need to know, need help catching up on anything? 

Btw, good advice/info!


----------



## Evshrug

shadowskulkerer said:


> Wait a minute.. For passive speakers, you need an amp and a power supply for that amp? This just keeps getting more complicated.




*TLR version.
I suggest skipping a projector unless you can afford a NICE one, because problems with detail in darks and daytime visibility. Most times LED displays with low input lag win the Darwin Award.

If you live in an apartment/dorm, I suggest a nice PC monitor with extra inputs for console, a Soundblaster Omni for PC use so you have volume dial and nice output options for future upgrades, a TurtleBeach DSS from EBay real cheap for your EXISTING console as the new ones as-yet have few compelling advantages aside from graphics or black-Friday sales, an AKG K612 as a great value all-round purpose home headphone with no glaring flaws, and an inexpensive 2.1 desktop speaker setup from Logitech or Creative.*

That setup above covers the basics until you find stuff worth spending more money on, and the Omni has lots of outputs so if you want to splash big on an optical DAC upgrade (or connect your PC to a receiver) you can have the Omni pass along headphone virtual surround (or various speaker options like 2-speaker surround or DDL5.1 output), or even if you want a budget 5.1 speaker setup made of computer speakers.


I mentioned on NamelessPFG 's thread that I liked the X7 also for powering my passive speakers... Two types of speakers, passive which you have to wire to an amp (built for speakers, the kind with wire taps where you thread in bare copper wire tips or make banana plugs), or active speakers which come with their own built-in amp. If you want passive speakers, an X7 or receiver with a discrete headphone amp and headphone surround start to make sense.

If you want powered/active speakers, I suggest looking at Paradigm and Audioengine. Bookshelf/monitor speakers are probably the most prevalent speakers, so of course there are many many options.

Consider your goals... Separate them into short-term and long term. That way, you don't throw money away. Don't rush to buy cheap speakers or something you won't actually enjoy just because it "completes your system." Consider capable components that allow for modular component additions to extend their value and lifetime, so that you can upgrade over time when you know what will be an upgrade.

M$ exclusives are like Gears of War and Halo, GoW is a slow unimmersive cover shooter with smoker-lung voice acting, and as much as I LOVED Halo the series is stretching out like a soap opera and we cannot go back to 2001 where a console FPS with good controls (and neat music, 2 gun system, vehicles) was enough to blow our minds... Halo is the only exclusive draw to the XBOne for me, and much as I liked halo it continues to not be enough for me to choose the XBone, if you love Forza/Sunset Overdrive then YMMV, I'm hoping for more story driven stuff (or multiplats) the Playstation brand is known for. The X7 has a built-in beamforming mic for USB connections like the PS4... I wonder if XBOne has Bluetooth headset support like the 360 did, and if the X7 could "look like" a Bluetooth headset to the XBOne and play optical and Bluetooth audio simultaneously... would solve problems in an awesome tidy way. Those are unconfirmed "if's" however.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want you to GTFO.


No. Yes. I'm tired.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I mentioned on NamelessPFG 's thread that I liked the X7 also for powering my passive speakers... Two types of speakers, passive which you have to wire to an amp (built for speakers, the kind with wire taps where you thread in bare copper wire tips or make banana plugs), or active speakers which come with their own built-in amp.
> 
> If you want powered/active speakers, I suggest looking at Paradigm and Audioengine. Bookshelf/monitor speakers are probably the most prevalent speakers, so of course there are many many options.
> 
> ...


 
 Dude, I so want the Audioengine A5+
  
 So much want that my wallet will wait for those until next year lol
  
 I think thats another reason why I kind of want to get the X7 but next year though lol
  
 Sometimes or most of the time, I dont want to watch my movies wearing my headphones or listening through my monitors speakers (which are bleh)
  
 I live in a small room, so no Surround Sound set up for me (physical)


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> OMG man, it's been a few months since you were here!!! How've you been? Did you end up with the most awesome computer build I your life?
> What do you need to know, need help catching up on anything?
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Haha.  Hi!!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I'm still around - I check the forums once a week or so, I just don't post much.  My only new headphone purchase is a pair of HyperX Clouds.  I was in need of some cheap and well isolating closed headphones for live music.  They're pretty good!
  
 I may pick up the X2s though at some point though.  Have there been any other new mid-fi headphones released worth taking note of??
  
 ....Oh, and YES, my PC is awesome (IMO).  I love it.  I just put a new GTX 970 in it, just cuz.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, have you heard what headphone I just picked up last week for mid-Fi prices? It's not a new headphone... But the value is exTREMELY high. Also I've read reports of the more mid-centric HE-400i which seems appealing to me, I was very pleased at the value of the K612 (which I bought), and I for one am excited about soundblaster' upcoming X7 due sometime next month.

Good times were had playing Destiny, but so much good times and addiction that we've pretty much explored all the content besides upcoming DLC. XBOne setups continue to be a PITA with adapters and limited options. Oh, and someone asked what the best headphone for gaming is.


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> Well, have you heard what headphone I just picked up last week for mid-Fi prices? It's not a new headphone... But the value is exTREMELY high. Also I've read reports of the more mid-centric HE-400i which seems appealing to me, I was very pleased at the value of the K612 (which I bought), and I for one am excited about soundblaster' upcoming X7 due sometime next month.
> 
> Good times were had playing Destiny, but so much good times and addiction that we've pretty much explored all the content besides upcoming DLC. XBOne setups continue to be a PITA with adapters and limited options. Oh, and someone asked what the best headphone for gaming is.


 
  
  
 Hmm.  From looking are your post history, some kind of electrostat?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  That's all I know....
  
 Also, what are the TLR highlights of the X7? 
  


evshrug said:


> Oh, and *someone asked what the best headphone for gaming is.*


 
  
 HAHA. 
  
_Classic Head-fi.  _
  
 ...At least it only happens 3-4 times per day though...


----------



## Evshrug

www.soundblaster.com/x7
External soundcard for PC's (Mac & Win), consoles (including PS4 & XBO), and smart devices.

USB supporting PC, Playstations, host mode for iOS devices and some android.
Optical input and output, supporting DDL5.1 input and SBX headphone or speaker out.
Analogue inputs and outputs, including two headphone outs, 5.1 powered speaker outputs, and stereo passive-speaker (!) outputs with bare-wire or banana plug support.
Bluetooth, 4.1 supporting simultaneous two paired devices and NFC pairing.
Same DAC and (swappable) OpAmp as the ZxR, though they're advertising 127 dB S:N for the DAC.
Analogue mic in with ADC boasting 123dB S:N
All supporting up to 24/196
Beamforming mic
Front width and height is less than 6"
iOS and Android apps for changing settings.

Oh, and if that's not enough, integrated headphone stand, LOL!


----------



## chicolom

One Question....
  
*How do you guys who game on PC with an external DAC/amp have your mic hooked up? *
  
  When I game single player, I run optical out from the soundcard -> to an optical DAC -> then line out to a headphone amp - and it's nice and clean sounding.  However, as soon as I plug the y-split mic jack portion of my v-moda boom cable into my PC soundcards, I get a bunch of annoying fuzzy electrical noise (where you're hearing the PC components electrically inside the case - where you move the mouse and it sounds "fuzzy" and stuff) all over the audio and mic signals.  If I remove the audio jack from the external amp and plug both audio and mic jacks straight into the soundcard it's clean sounding again, but as soon as I move the audio jack away and back to the external dac/amp I get a ton of electrical noises.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 I tried moving the power plugs all to the same outlet, in case it was a grounding issue, but that didn't change anything.
  
 Even if I disconnect all sources from the headphone amp, it still picks up all the electrical noises inside the PC via that y-split mic cable going to the PC.  All the internal PC noises are getting to the amp through that Y mic cable.
  
 I imagine that using the modmic will fix it, as that will isolate and separate the mic signal from the amplifier.  But aren't there other people here who are successfully using a single cable y-split style headset on PC with an external amp and not getting electrical noises??
  
 I'm kind of stumped ATM....


----------



## chicolom

evshrug said:


> www.soundblaster.com/x7
> External soundcard for PC's (Mac & Win), consoles (including PS4 & XBO), and smart devices.
> 
> USB supporting PC, Playstations, host mode for iOS devices and some android.
> ...


 Wow. That's a pretty impressive list. 

I saw that Turtle Beach mixamp lookalike box with the DTS Headphone X support too. Kind of interesting since it's one of the first to use that DSP.

I wonder what ever happened to the AMD True Audio powered middlewares like the GenAudio AstoundSound...


----------



## Toxos

Owner of the CAL! here and I had originally bought them for gaming but then I went for pc360s for bigger soundstage. By an accident, I noticed that CAL!2 was released and I am wondering if it is worth the upgrade. The in-line mic and supposed increased soundstage is ideal for my ps4 right now since I do not have connections for better sound... yet... (X7 may change that if it is worth the premium). Any thoughts? I thought it would be a good choice for LANs and music for work.


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> One Question....
> 
> *How do you guys who game on PC with an external DAC/amp have your mic hooked up? *
> 
> ...


 
  
 I actually don't use my Boompro on the PC.  I have an Omni, which is external and has a mic built-in.  Same setup of optical out to DAC/Amp and everything works fine.
  
 I strongly suspect using any mic that isn't a Boompro will fix your issue.  And since you're on a PC, you don't really need a Boompro... (or a Modmic).


----------



## Evshrug

chicolom said:


> Wow. That's a pretty impressive list.
> 
> I saw that Turtle Beach mixamp lookalike box with the DTS Headphone X support too. Kind of interesting since it's one of the first to use that DSP.
> 
> I wonder what ever happened to the AMD True Audio powered middlewares like the GenAudio AstoundSound...



Yeah, I was just looking for a console-compatible processor with optical output for my Bifrost DAC, but I saw the X7 and... basically it can replace a table full of junk, lol.

Dunno what happened to TrueAudio other than (I think) it hasn't had a game enabled with it on PS4, though Lichdom has been released I don't know if it's still using the tech. Thanks for reminding me.

I should learn more about the new TB unit, just because I know about pretty much all the others (even the earlier TB one that came with the zero seven or whatever).




stillhart said:


> I actually don't use my Boompro on the PC.  I have an Omni, which is external and has a mic built-in.  Same setup of optical out to DAC/Amp and everything works fine.
> 
> I strongly suspect using any mic that isn't a Boompro will fix your issue.  And since you're on a PC, you don't really need a Boompro... (or a Modmic).




Right, the Omni's beamforming mic is perfectly capable, though I think I prefer the warmer tone from my Neweer clip-on plugged into the Omni's mic port.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Right, the Omni's beamforming mic is perfectly capable, though I think I prefer the warmer tone from my Neweer clip-on plugged into the Omni's mic port.


 
  
 You can't hear it anyways, what do you care?  
  
 But yeah, separate mic plugged into the Omni works fine too.  I might have to test the Boompro with Chicolom's setup to see if it's giving me problems too, but unfortunately, I don't have an AKG adapter so I can't really test it with anything.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

I'm super excited. I finally pulled the trigger on a Mixamp 5.8 on eBay. Couldn't duplicate the $40, but I got one for $50 so I'm happy. Now I'm wondering what else I need, including a mic solution, to make this work with my Q701s, X-Box One and PS4 (in the future). I know I need the X-Box One chat adapter and I haven't purchased my amp yet (going with FiiO E11 or E12), but I'm not sure what else I need to make this work. Thanks in advance for any response.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> I'm super excited. I finally pulled the trigger on a Mixamp 5.8 on eBay. Couldn't duplicate the $40, but I got one for $50 so I'm happy. Now I'm wondering what else I need, including a mic solution, to make this work with my Q701s, X-Box One and PS4 (in the future). I know I need the X-Box One chat adapter and I haven't purchased my amp yet (going with FiiO E11 or E12), but I'm not sure what else I need to make this work. Thanks in advance for any response.


 
  
 Congrats, that's a nice deal.  I have a Mixamp 5.8, Xbox One, Q701 and E11 for my setup as well.  You won't always need the E11, only if you're chatting.  
  
 It looks like you have almost everything you need.  Seem to be missing a 2.5mm cable for connecting the receiver to your controller.  And you'll need a short 3.5mm cable to daisy chain your E11 in.
  
 For a mic, I just use the Neewer/HDE mics from Amazon.  They're like $6 for a pack of 5.  It's a coin flip if they'll be working, but you can usually get 2-4 good ones out of a pack of 5.  If you want something more reliable, there are things like the Modmic, but they cost WAY more.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

Just looked in the sale forum and there is a E12DIY, is this worth the price increase over the E12 Mont Blanc? Which E12 is better (didn't realize there was a second version until now). There is also a sale on a Fiio E11 for $35. Decisions, decisions. Please help.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> Just looked in the sale forum and there is a E12DIY, is this worth the price increase over the E12 Mont Blanc? Which E12 is better (didn't realize there was a second version until now). There is also a sale on a Fiio E11 for $35. Decisions, decisions. Please help.


 
  
 You don't need the E12 for the Q701 on the Xbox/PS.  It is better than the E11, for sure.  But not needed.  
  
 As you can see, I had the same choice and chose the E11.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> You don't need the E12 for the Q701 on the Xbox/PS.  It is better than the E11, for sure.  But not needed.
> 
> As you can see, I had the same choice and chose the E11.


 

 I believe the E12 was recommended, by you I believe, because I needed a solution that was portable and could be used with the Mixamp 5.8 and with a desktop setup on pc. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'll message you the quote if you don't mind.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> I believe the E12 was recommended, by you I believe, because I needed a solution that was portable and could be used with the Mixamp 5.8 and with a desktop setup on pc. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'll message you the quote if you don't mind.


 
  
 Who knows, maybe the context of your question was different before.  Either way, I stand by my statement that you don't need the E12, though it is better.  I really don't particularly care what you get so if you want to get the E12, go for it.  I'm sure you'll be happy with it.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> Who knows, maybe the context of your question was different before.  Either way, I stand by my statement that you don't need the E12, though it is better.  I really don't particularly care what you get so if you want to get the E12, go for it.  I'm sure you'll be happy with it.


 

 Awesome, I'll go with the E11 for now. Have you ever tried the K712 or K702 annies with your E11? I'm just asking because I plan on upgrading to one of those in the future and I'm trying to keep amp in mind. Thanks again Still. You have been awesome since I joined the forums. I have learned so much, but still have a ton to learn.
  
 Edit: Nevermind, you answered what I needed to know in the PM.


----------



## Stillhart

mista freeze 74 said:


> Awesome, I'll go with the E11 for now. Have you ever tried the K712 or K702 annies with your E11? I'm just asking because I plan on upgrading to one of those in the future and I'm trying to keep amp in mind. Thanks again Still. You have been awesome since I joined the forums. I have learned so much, but still have a ton to learn.


 
  
 I haven't tried them, no.  However, the power needs of those cans shouldn't be materially different from that of the Q701.  The E11 should be good enough for the console gaming.  You'll want something much better to do them justice for music tho.


----------



## Mista Freeze 74

stillhart said:


> I haven't tried them, no.  However, the power needs of those cans shouldn't be materially different from that of the Q701.  The E11 should be good enough for the console gaming.  You'll want something much better to do them justice for music tho.


 

 Yea, for music I'll be going with the SB Omni and Vali combo. I think that should take care of my needs, as well as, future proof me for awhile. Well, at lease until I get the upgrade itis I'm sure I'll get at some point.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

1800 pages of awesome! ...

Maybe I'll come back and do this again when it hits 2000.


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> You don't need the E12 for the Q701 on the Xbox/PS.  It is better than the E11, for sure.  But not needed.
> 
> As you can see, I had the same choice and chose the E11.


 
 so are you saying that the e11 will give you good sound quality if paired with q701? I wonder how soundstage is affected when using an e11 and compared to an e12. I have an e11 and Im wondering about this....since im planning on jumping into purchasing an akg k712...
  
 But im also considering buying a tube amp down the road...


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

Astro Mix amp Quesiton: 
 In game some games let you choose audio type. 
 Should I select *headphone* or *surround sound* (IN GAME). I know it just changes the in-game mix/effect levels (actually it may only change dynamic/compression level as noted by some games like Last of Us Remastered). But how does it effect the Dolby headphone effect on the mix amp?


----------



## RRod

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Astro Mix amp Quesiton:
> In game some games let you choose audio type.
> Should I select *headphone* or *surround sound* (IN GAME). I know it just changes the in-game mix/effect levels (actually it may only change dynamic/compression level as noted by some games like Last of Us Remastered). But how does it effect the Dolby headphone effect on the mix amp?


 
  
 The "headphone" setting does a downmix of the surround data to 2 channels (probably with a bit of processing for things like crossfeed, but most likely not any HRTF). If you send that into your MixAmp with Dolby Headphone on, all DH will do is apply its spatialization to the 2 channels, which is probably not what you want. You want surround channels going into the MixAmp, so it can get you front/back localization from them as well, so set the game to surround sound.
  
 Note also that MixAmp (well, mine at least) expects Dolby Digital format, not DTS and not DD+. Your software/hardware need to be able to mix these to DD.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

rrod said:


> The "headphone" setting does a downmix of the surround data to 2 channels (probably with a bit of processing for things like crossfeed, but most likely not any HRTF). If you send that into your MixAmp with Dolby Headphone on, all DH will do is apply its spatialization to the 2 channels, which is probably not what you want. You want surround channels going into the MixAmp, so it can get you front/back localization from them as well, so set the game to surround sound.
> 
> Note also that MixAmp (well, mine at least) expects Dolby Digital format, not DTS and not DD+. Your software/hardware need to be able to mix these to DD.


 
 Yeah..... but most games do not give you the choice between DD, DTS, and DD+. 
 Honestly from what I have experienced in the in game menus, the choices between TV/headphone/surround simply change the dynamic mixing (range) of the output. Not the number of channels. 
 I could be totaly wrong. But I don't think I am. 
  
 Where I am confused is... what is the defult output of a game vs console. If we have our PS4/PS3/360/Xbone set to PCM out doesn't it always output surround sound output which our mix amp uses to give us Dobly Headphone sound? My point being is that in-game settings shouldn't change the multi channel output of the console, right?


----------



## RRod

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Yeah..... but most games do not give you the choice between DD, DTS, and DD+.
> Honestly from what I have experienced in the in game menus, the choices between TV/headphone/surround simply change the dynamic mixing (range) of the output. Not the number of channels.
> I could be totaly wrong. But I don't think I am.
> 
> Where I am confused is... what is the defult output of a game vs console. If we have our PS4/PS3/360/Xbone set to PCM out doesn't it always output surround sound output which our mix amp uses to give us Dobly Headphone sound? My point being is that in-game settings shouldn't change the multi channel output of the console, right?


 
  
 By software/hardware I meant the console and/or any amp you might be sending output to. You're right in that most games have at most 2 modes: stereo (including headphone) and surround, but choosing one of the stereo options will definitely not get you all the channels sent out. The console can still encode the 2 channels into a multichannel signal, but the surround and LFE channels won't have any data and thus won't be any use to the MixAmp. For the MixAmp you want your console outputting DD 5.1-7.1, and the games set to deliver surround signals to the console.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

rrod said:


> By software/hardware I meant the console and/or any amp you might be sending output to. You're right in that most games have at most 2 modes: stereo (including headphone) and surround, but choosing one of the stereo options will definitely not get you all the channels sent out. The console can still encode the 2 channels into a multichannel signal, but the surround and LFE channels won't have any data and thus won't be any use to the MixAmp. For the MixAmp you want your console outputting DD 5.1-7.1, and the games set to deliver surround signals to the console.


 
 Don't take this the wrong way... but I am not sure you know what you are talking about. 
 What console gives you a chose of 5.1 or 7.1 choice?
 please take screen shots with you phone or whatever and post here so I know what you are talking about. 
 I have Sony and Microsoft consoles. They simply ask you PCM/HDMI, etc. 
 No console, next gen or otherwise has 7.1. Plain and simple. that is fact. 
  
 I am trying to be subtle about it.... but I don't think you understand what I am asking. I am 99.5% sure when a game asks you choose between TV/Surround/headphone it is merely asking you to choose the dynamic level of the mixing you desire. I just want to make sure this is the consensus.
 On TV speakers you are not going to be able to ascertain nearly the same level of dynamic sound level as you can from a hi-fi speaker system, and the headphones tend to be able to allow the highest dynamic range of any avalive options. 
  
 I am simply looking for verification on this.


----------



## RRod

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Don't take this the wrong way... but I am not sure you know what you are talking about.
> What console gives you a chose of 5.1 or 7.1 choice?
> please take screen shots with you phone or whatever and post here so I know what you are talking about.
> I have Sony and Microsoft consoles. They simply ask you PCM/HDMI, etc.
> ...


 
  
 You can read Astro's guide to getting the MixAmp setup then, where it says how to set the PS3 to output DD5.1. 7.1 is 5.1 that has matrix-encoded back-surround channels. SPDIF cannot support more than 2 channels of uncompressed data, so you can't just send PCM over SPDIF and expect it to be surround sound. You know all this of course, so I'll let someone else take a shot at pleasing you.


----------



## martin vegas

Creative X7 is feature-packed high-res DAC and amp
 Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/news/creative-x7-feature-packed-high-res-dac-and-amp#jAF8LreuGZjE5Yx9.99


----------



## rudyae86

They are just saying the same thing as everyone else has done with the x7. Why cant they just release it now...december is near...guess they have an NDA to follow for something to release info on


----------



## Evshrug

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> Don't take this the wrong way... but I am not sure you know what you are talking about.
> What console gives you a chose of 5.1 or 7.1 choice?
> please take screen shots with you phone or whatever and post here so I know what you are talking about.
> I have Sony and Microsoft consoles. They simply ask you PCM/HDMI, etc.
> ...




That tone is a great way to NOT get help.

That said, misinformation is bad. So...
PCM is a stereo output, if you are using optical. If your console is set for PCM it's no wonder surround and headphone modes don't seem to make any difference for positioning.

PS4 and Xbox 360 are consoles which I am familiar with their sound settings, but I can't post pictures since some software update for mobile users a few months back. With the 360 your only options in console settings>audio are stereo (changes depending on HDMI connection or RCA), Dolby Digital 5.1 (which is encoded as Dolby Digital Live, if you read on Dolby's website they talk about how 7.1 is decrypted from the two additional channels matrixed into the reach channels), and Dolby Digital with WMA Pro which honestly... I can't tell you much about, lol. With PS4, you just choose Linear PCM (stereo over optical, up to 7.1 channels over HDMI), bitstreaming (Dolby [again, this is Dolby Digital Live), or bitstreaming (DTS [this is DTS Connect]). The bitstreaming options are encoding (compression) options for Optical output for surround, notice they don't even bother trying to say how many channels because they don't want to explain the more complicated situation of which channels are discrete or matrixed.

What a game's sound options does is very game-dependent. Battlefield 3 and 4, for example, actually have a 2-channel-with-headphone-virtual-surround HRTF option, and I'm pretty sure that if you have Dolby Digital Live enabled the game only outputs audio to the LF and RF speaker channels because positioning gets messed up if I use Dolby Headphone. Some games combine all the left channels into one and the right channels to a single right channel. I doubt that everyone here would consent that output settings are mainly dynamic range adjustments... A change might include that result (or some game devs decide to just make that change), but often there is more to it than that. The console will still honor the surround/stereo channel output settings regardless of what the game does internally, but that doesn't automatically make games have positional information.


----------



## benbenkr

^This is why more console games needs to allow gamers to adjust the azimuths of the sound, in relation to what device they are using. TLoU Remastered had it and while it wasn't perfect, it actually made the already amazing audio cues even better.
 Adjusting the azimuths to suit something more immersive in SP and then adjusting it to something very positional based for MP, this is what I think every console game must have.


----------



## Elf-1

Didn't read anything about it in the last 20+ pages, so a quick question from me: Is there any difference between the new Mixamp and the Pro 2013 edition?


----------



## Evshrug

elf-1 said:


> Didn't read anything about it in the last 20+ pages, so a quick question from me: Is there any difference between the new Mixamp and the Pro 2013 edition?



 Astro didn't bother changing anything either 

 Indeed, the new one isn't any better than the 2011 one with the least hiss or the other one Mad had for many years which allows PS4 chat. Basically, it's been the older the better so far, unfortunately.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Didn't read anything about it in the last 20+ pages, so a quick question from me: Is there any difference between the new Mixamp and the Pro 2013 edition?


 
  
 I confirmed with the Mixamp guys at PAX Prome that the new mixamp is just a visual update; internals are all the same.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

evshrug said:


> That tone is a great way to NOT get help.
> 
> That said, misinformation is bad. So...
> PCM is a stereo output, if you are using optical. If your console is set for PCM it's no wonder surround and headphone modes don't seem to make any difference for positioning.
> ...


 
 I was wrong, you are right. I am a dick. No sarcasm intended.


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> I confirmed with the Mixamp guys at PAX Prome that the new mixamp is just a visual update; internals are all the same.


 
 Thanks for the answer! Too bad was hoping for at least less hiss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Astro is gonna have to step it up, though since they're the most well known... i doubt they'll do much to change it in the future.

I'm still holding on to my Mixamp 5.8 for dear life.


----------



## Elf-1

There is still something I don't understand. Every headphone benefits from an additional amp right? However, some are just too hard to drive for the Mixamp and that's why you need an additional amp, this has something to do with the impedance, am I correct? Can someone explain the connection/link between the impedance and the Mixamps need for additional amping? More Ohms and the Mixamp needs an addtional amp right? And at what impedance from the headphone can we say that the Mixamp needs an amp is this at 60 Ohms or more or less? And I've heard there is a connection/link between the impedance and the way voice chat works on PS4, you can't hear the voice with high impedance headphones (or something like that) can someone explain/clarify this? 
  
 So can you say that a headphone with high impedance is more ore less useless with only the Mixamp (and no addional amp)? The reason I'm asking this, is because I'm looking for an headphone with mic or a headset, but it will be my first one. So I don't want to pay for an additional amp in the first place and realise three weeks later that a headphone or headset is just nothing for me, you understand? I've been around here quite some time now, reading everything and not posting much, but looking into the first poste ever so often. The AKG ones are still the one my eyes can't stop looking at. The AKG 612 Pro has 120 Ohm, does this one need an amp and is it useless without one? And can you still hear voice from the partychat with it? 
  
 Last but not least, do you have any suggestions for an headphone/headset that is very good with just the Mixamp (and no addtional amp)? I need a mic, because communication is very important on the Battlefield. Also ModMic is a bit expensive  . So I was thinking, is there a way to buy a headphone and mixamp combo and have that for the sound and use the PS4 controller for the mic? And then after a while if I like everything I can upgrade to a ModMic or something like that.


----------



## RRod

elf-1 said:


> There is still something I don't understand. Every headphone benefits from an additional amp right? However, some are just too hard to drive for the Mixamp and that's why you need an additional amp, this has something to do with the impedance, am I correct? Can someone explain the connection/link between the impedance and the Mixamps need for additional amping? More Ohms and the Mixamp needs an addtional amp right? And at what impedance from the headphone can we say that the Mixamp needs an amp is this at 60 Ohms or more or less? And I've heard there is a connection/link between the impedance and the way voice chat works on PS4, you can't hear the voice with high impedance headphones (or something like that) can someone explain/clarify this?
> 
> So can you say that a headphone with high impedance is more ore less useless with only the Mixamp (and no addional amp)? The reason I'm asking this, is because I'm looking for an headphone with mic or a headset, but it will be my first one. So I don't want to pay for an additional amp in the first place and realise three weeks later that a headphone or headset is just nothing for me, you understand? I've been around here quite some time now, reading everything and not posting much, but looking into the first poste ever so often. The AKG ones are still the one my eyes can't stop looking at. The AKG 612 Pro has 120 Ohm, does this one need an amp and is it useless without one? And can you still hear voice from the partychat with it?
> 
> Last but not least, do you have any suggestions for an headphone/headset that is very good with just the Mixamp (and no addtional amp)? I need a mic, because communication is very important on the Battlefield. Also ModMic is a bit expensive  . So I was thinking, is there a way to buy a headphone and mixamp combo and have that for the sound and use the PS4 controller for the mic? And then after a while if I like everything I can upgrade to a ModMic or something like that.


 
  
 Here's what I could find for specs on the MixAmp (the Pro seems to have a bit more juice):
 http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/719056-Astro-A40-Headset-with-Asus-Xonar-Xense-Will-I-still-need-the-MixAmp
  
 Here are the power requirements for the 612 pro:
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/akg/h/k-612-pro
  
 So the Mixamp seems a bit underpowered for those cans. I used HD598s on the MixAmp for a while, and it did have enough power for them, since they're only 50ohm (like the Astro headset):
 http://www.audiobot9000.com/sennheiser/h/hd-598


----------



## martin vegas

elf-1 said:


> There is still something I don't understand. Every headphone benefits from an additional amp right? However, some are just too hard to drive for the Mixamp and that's why you need an additional amp, this has something to do with the impedance, am I correct? Can someone explain the connection/link between the impedance and the Mixamps need for additional amping? More Ohms and the Mixamp needs an addtional amp right? And at what impedance from the headphone can we say that the Mixamp needs an amp is this at 60 Ohms or more or less? And I've heard there is a connection/link between the impedance and the way voice chat works on PS4, you can't hear the voice with high impedance headphones (or something like that) can someone explain/clarify this?
> 
> So can you say that a headphone with high impedance is more ore less useless with only the Mixamp (and no addional amp)? The reason I'm asking this, is because I'm looking for an headphone with mic or a headset, but it will be my first one. So I don't want to pay for an additional amp in the first place and realise three weeks later that a headphone or headset is just nothing for me, you understand? I've been around here quite some time now, reading everything and not posting much, but looking into the first poste ever so often. The AKG ones are still the one my eyes can't stop looking at. The AKG 612 Pro has 120 Ohm, does this one need an amp and is it useless without one? And can you still hear voice from the partychat with it?
> 
> Last but not least, do you have any suggestions for an headphone/headset that is very good with just the Mixamp (and no addtional amp)? I need a mic, because communication is very important on the Battlefield. Also ModMic is a bit expensive  . So I was thinking, is there a way to buy a headphone and mixamp combo and have that for the sound and use the PS4 controller for the mic? And then after a while if I like everything I can upgrade to a ModMic or something like that.


 

 I just got the AKG545 the other day,they are good for gaming and are only 32ohms don't need much juice..i just use them straight out of the ps4 controller and don't even use my dac or headphone amp and they still sound schiit hot!


----------



## Sam21

I have a question peeps, Do all XB1 and PS4 games output 5.1 ?


----------



## Plexon

Sorry for the noobish question guys, but I just went to GuitarCenter and tested out the DT 770 250 ohms. I love them.
  
 I am planning to get them after months of searching. I was told that the SoundBlasterZ adds 5.1 surround sound?
  
 Heres the *real* question though:
  
 Does any set of cans work with the 5.1 surround sound from the card?
  
 Also, as a side note.
  
 I was planning to get the modi/magni combo as well with the SBZ, but someone told me its not worth it for gaming purposes. Just to clarify, was he/she right?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> I have a question peeps, Do all XB1 and PS4 games output 5.1 ?


 
  
 Pretty much.
  


plexon said:


> Sorry for the noobish question guys, but I just went to GuitarCenter and tested out the DT 770 250 ohms. I love them.
> 
> I am planning to get them after months of searching. I was told that the SoundBlasterZ adds 5.1 surround sound?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, any cans will get surround from the Z.  Some can make that surround sound better/more realistic than others.  See the guide at the beginning of this thread for details on that.
  
 The Magni should help a little.  The Modi will not.  The DAC in the Z is good enough that the Modi will give no perceptible improvement.


----------



## hi2chris

_Hi,_
  
_This is my first post on here and boy am I happy I found these forums._
  
_The misses is looking to buy me some headphones for Christmas and is just waiting me to tell her what I’m after I originally said the Astro A40 which seem like a good start off point with the Mixamp. She is happy to spend around the $300 mark._
  
_However upon reading many threads on head-fi seem like a standard option. I have tried doing research through google searches but many of the recommendations go against what is being said on here (head explosion with information)._
  
So where I’m at is, perhaps I should just buy some form of DAC (Mixamp seems to be the best option or the Recon3d) and get my partner to buy
·         PC360/G4ME ONE     or      MMX300
  
 Or bypass the all in one and go
  
·         HD598 or one of the AKG 701/712
·         Modmic
  
 So for a pure gaming purpose am I on the right track? Or what would be your ‘perfect’ all in one setup and BYO mic setup?
  
 Thank you


----------



## benbenkr

sam21 said:


> I have a question peeps, Do all XB1 and PS4 games output 5.1 ?


 
  
 Walking Dead S1 and S2 as well as The Wolf Among Us doesn't. Why? Go ask the sound engineers at Telltale. And no, the PC/PS3/360 versions didn't have 5.1 either.


----------



## Evshrug

elf-1 said:


> There is still something I don't understand. Every headphone benefits from an additional amp right? However, some are just too hard to drive for the Mixamp and that's why you need an additional amp, this has something to do with the impedance, am I correct? Can someone explain the connection/link between the impedance and the Mixamps need for additional amping?
> 
> So I don't want to pay for an additional amp in the first place and realise three weeks later that a headphone or headset is just nothing for me, you understand? I've been around here quite some time now, reading everything and not posting much, but looking into the first post every so often. The AKG ones are still the one my eyes can't stop looking at. The AKG 612 Pro has 120 Ohm, does this one need an amp and is it useless without one? And can you still hear voice from the partychat with it?
> 
> Last but not least, do you have any suggestions for an headphone/headset that is very good with just the Mixamp (and no addtional amp)? I need a mic, because communication is very important on the Battlefield. Also ModMic is a bit expensive  . So I was thinking, is there a way to buy a headphone and mixamp combo and have that for the sound and use the PS4 controller for the mic? And then after a while if I like everything I can upgrade to a ModMic or something like that.



Let me break it down a bit for you 
A higher impedance has benefits and downsides... Downside is that everything will be a bit quieter volume. Sensitivity is also a factor for that but basically that means you'll just need to turn up the volume dial a little for the same sense of loudness. It won't separately make chat volume quieter. Some benefits of higher impedances are less distortion and noise, also an amp doesn't have to provide as high of a current to help the headphone playback sound controlled and each note more distinct.

The AKG k612 might allow you to crank the Mixamp's volume to full without it sounding "LOUD," but it will still work, and even a budget amp like a FiiO E11k daisy-chained between the mixamp and headphone will help it reach as loud as you could want. You can always step up to a Magni or other amp later.

One cool thing about the PS4 and headphone setups there, the PS4 can use USB for microphone audio. So, you could buy a separate USB mic and chat audio will just go through the same optical output as game audio, or you could use something like a Creative Recon3D USB to plug straight into a PS4 and use a cheap $3-$6 (3 for $6 on Amazon) mic clipped to your shirt. The Recon3D USB sounds clearer and the surround processing has less distortion than a Mixamp, but the amp is a little "quieter" and you'll probably want another amp just to make the 120 Ohm K612 louder. You can easily adjust chat volume and game volume balance in the PS4's party settings.






hi2chris said:


> This is my first post on here and boy am I happy I found these forums.
> 
> The misses is looking to buy me some headphones for Christmas and is just waiting me to tell her what I’m after I originally said the Astro A40 which seem like a good start off point with the Mixamp. She is happy to spend around the $300 mark.
> 
> ...




What platform are you playing on, console or PC? Recon3D is the simplest setup so far for all the platforms, but it's getting a little harder to find. Think of it this way: 
1.) You need a device to process the sound into headphone surround, and turn it from digital to analogue that your headphones can actually understand. This would be a mixamp/recon3D/DSS/Omni (Omni is computer only).
2.) you need to send game audio to the device in step 1 (optical connection for consoles).
3.) You need to send chat audio to the device in step 1 (a wire from the controller to device for any Xbox; on PS4 you can use USB just for a mic, and chat audio will be sent through optical along with game audio; the Recon3D uses it's USB for power AND microphone connection on PS4, but also comes with a 2.5mm cable to connect to an Xbox controller)
4.) you need a microphone (mixamp comes with a port for headphones that have an inline mic on the headphone cord, and an adapter to split mic input and audio output ports PC-style; recon3D comes with pc-style separate mic input and audio output mini headphone jacks (the standard 3.5mm jacks on most headphones) and you can just plug in a cheap lapel mic as linked in the first post; a mic just has to be connected separately from the DSS device)

"Daisy-Chaining" or "double amping" another amp between headphone and surround processing device optional but recommended for more nuance-capable headphones. The other upcoming option that takes care of all those above components and includes a nicer DAC and stronger amp in an all-in one package is the Sound Blaster X7, due out sometime next month. MSRP is a high $400, but it should cover all connection and power needs and sound better as a DAC than any of the other options.

I found the DSS to have an adequate amp for the K612, so I had been happy on the PS4 the past few months using a DSS+K612+Blue Snowball iCE mic I got second-hand on EBay.


----------



## hi2chris

Ahh yes I forgot to mention that this would be for PS4.
  
 I have heard about the X7,looks like an awesome product but $400 for a DAC when i have never even used one before is a big step. Maybe in the future but for now i think i will stick with one of the cheaper options
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
  
 Plus i don't think the misses will be to happy with me spending $400 on a device she will see as nothing more then a pretty paper weight.


----------



## Elf-1

Thanks Evshrug, your answer really clarifies a lot for me 
  
 At the first page, the Audio Technica AD700 is mentioned as one of the best headphones when it comes to competitive gaming, is this still the case or not? Would you still recommend it to anyone? In the last 20+ pages I didn't read anything about it, that's the reason why I'm asking this.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Thanks Evshrug, your answer really clarifies a lot for me
> 
> At the first page, the Audio Technica AD700 is mentioned as one of the best headphones when it comes to competitive gaming, is this still the case or not? Would you still recommend it to anyone? In the last 20+ pages I didn't read anything about it, that's the reason why I'm asking this.


 
  
 The reason it was so recommended back in the day is that you could get it for like $80.  It's been discontinued and replaced with the AD700X, which is pretty much the same but a lot more expensive.  Once you're into the $150+ price range, there is a lot of competition and the AD700X is no longer the clear-cut choice.


----------



## Yethal

elf-1 said:


> Thanks Evshrug, your answer really clarifies a lot for me
> 
> At the first page, the Audio Technica AD700 is mentioned as one of the best headphones when it comes to competitive gaming, is this still the case or not? Would you still recommend it to anyone? In the last 20+ pages I didn't read anything about it, that's the reason why I'm asking this.


 
 It's out of production now so it's kinda difficult to buy


----------



## rage3324

elf-1 said:


> Thanks Evshrug, your answer really clarifies a lot for me
> 
> At the first page, the Audio Technica AD700 is mentioned as one of the best headphones when it comes to competitive gaming, is this still the case or not? Would you still recommend it to anyone? In the last 20+ pages I didn't read anything about it, that's the reason why I'm asking this.


 
  
 I have a pair of AD700 (the old version). PM Me if you want them 
  
 Under $100 they are the clear winner when it comes to competitive fps gaming. The huge sound stage and accuracy of footsteps is unparalleled. The bass might be lacking, but that is a good thing for most competitive gaming.


----------



## vercify

Before I start, I would like to thank Mad and all the other people who have contributed to make this guide so informative. I have read through most of the guide and the last few pages of comments here and want to lay my thoughts out to make sure I understand everything I've read and that I am buying the right stuff! I've been lurking here for a few months now and this is my first post. 
  
 I currently have an Xbox One and am using the older Tritton AX720s for surround-sound gaming. The front is pictured below, the rear has the power plug, a "Voice to PS3" port and the optical port that connects to my Xbox One. I include this because, if in understand correctly, this box is unable to accommodate anything other than my Trittons. I am hoping someone can confirm this or, if not, tell me how I could go about hooking up other headphones to this device.
 https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/videogames/detail-page/B002ZS6Y64-control-box.jpg (not sure how to post pics here... I tried html  tags and that wasn't working)
  
 I am pretty happy with the Trittons but am thinking about upgrading to something a little newer. Initially I had my eyes on the new wireless A50s but am now rethinking that after seeing this guide and reading what other people have been saying regarding the relative quality of the A50s compared to their $300 price tag. From what I can tell, the only real benefit from the A50s for me right now would be the lack of wires (which is a big plus). I am now thinking about getting the Phillips Fidelio X1s, an amp and a V-Moda Boom Mic instead. My rationale is that with the X1s I get a set of cans that will work for more than just gaming and blow the A50s away in terms of performance. The downside is that I am still stuck with some cord mess, but hey, you have to pick your battles ;) 
  
 Here is where my questions start. From what I can tell, I am going to need some sort of mixamp to convert/mix the surround sound as an intermediary between my Xbox and my headphones. I am also going to need a mic (the vmoda) an amp (looking at the Fio e11 or e12), an optical cable and a 2.5-3.5mm cable, i think. Is this correct? I am a bit unsure if I need the amp when using the X1s, but from what I can tell even if they don't need it it will only help them perform better, both for gaming and just listening to music in general.
  
 I had hoped to be able to use my Tritton box but I don't think I will be able to do that, as there is not a headset jack from what I can tell. (Maybe someone will show me otherwise!). So, I need a mixamp. From what I have read, the Astro Mixamp 5.8 is a decent place to start. Trouble is I am not exactly sure which version of the 5.8 I am supposed to be getting. The guide mentioned a new and old version, stating that the older the better is preferable. I have no idea how I am supposed to tell what Mixamp 5.8 will work for my needs! I don't want to end up buying the wrong thing, lol. This is probably what I am most confused on right now. I think I have picked out a good amp, mic and pair of headphones (the X1s), so I just need to figure out what sort of mixamp I need as my intermediary, whether it is the Astro setup or something else (other suggestions welcome)!
  
 Any help or advice on either tracking down the proper Astro Mixamp 5.8 or on another mixamp solution would be greatly appreciated. Right now the X1s are going for $250-300. In addition to the headphones, I am ready to spend around $150 extra on the mixamp, amp and mic to make the X1s function for gaming as well, just to give everyone an idea of my budget. 
  
 Oh, and as a closing bit, do you guys think this setup is a good choice overall? I listen to a lot of music, especially while studying, and I have 3 years of living, gaming and studying alone in law school ahead of me next fall. I currently have V-Mada LP2s as my go-to cans but they are two years old and beat to hell, which is why they are my on the go pair for traveling, walking around, going to class, etc. I occasionally listen to Bose AE2s and as I said before I have my Trittons for gaming. I think my proposed X1 setup makes sense for me, since the X1s will work for gaming and general listening at home or in the office. If people think there is a better solution I am more than open to hearing their thoughts :)


----------



## vercify

Before I start, I would like to thank Mad and all the other people who have contributed to make this guide so informative. I have read through most of the guide and the last few pages of comments here and want to lay my thoughts out to make sure I understand everything I've read and that I am buying the right stuff! I've been lurking here for a few months now and this is my first post. 
  
 I currently have an Xbox One and am using the older Tritton AX720s for surround-sound gaming. The front is pictured below, the rear has the power plug, a "Voice to PS3" port and the optical port that connects to my Xbox One. I include this because, if in understand correctly, this box is unable to accommodate anything other than my Trittons. I am hoping someone can confirm this or, if not, tell me how I could go about hooking up other headphones to this device.
  
 I am pretty happy with the Trittons but am thinking about upgrading to something a little newer. Initially I had my eyes on the new wireless A50s but am now rethinking that after seeing this guide and reading what other people have been saying regarding the relative quality of the A50s compared to their $300 price tag. From what I can tell, the only real benefit from the A50s for me right now would be the lack of wires (which is a big plus). I am now thinking about getting the Phillips Fidelio X1s, an amp and a V-Moda Boom Mic instead. My rationale is that with the X1s I get a set of cans that will work for more than just gaming and blow the A50s away in terms of performance. The downside is that I am still stuck with some cord mess, but hey, you have to pick your battles  
  
 Here is where my questions start. From what I can tell, I am going to need some sort of mixamp to convert/mix the surround sound as an intermediary between my Xbox and my headphones. I am also going to need a mic (the vmoda) an amp (looking at the Fio e11 or e12), an optical cable and a 2.5-3.5mm cable, i think. Is this correct? I am a bit unsure if I need the amp when using the X1s, but from what I can tell even if they don't need it it will only help them perform better, both for gaming and just listening to music in general.
  
 I had hoped to be able to use my Tritton box but I don't think I will be able to do that, as there is not a headset jack from what I can tell. (Maybe someone will show me otherwise!). So, I need a mixamp. From what I have read, the Astro Mixamp 5.8 is a decent place to start. Trouble is I am not exactly sure which version of the 5.8 I am supposed to be getting. The guide mentioned a new and old version, stating that the older the better is preferable. I have no idea how I am supposed to tell what Mixamp 5.8 will work for my needs! I don't want to end up buying the wrong thing, lol. This is probably what I am most confused on right now. I think I have picked out a good amp, mic and pair of headphones (the X1s), so I just need to figure out what sort of mixamp I need as my intermediary, whether it is the Astro setup or something else (other suggestions welcome)!
  
 Any help or advice on either tracking down the proper Astro Mixamp 5.8 or on another mixamp solution would be greatly appreciated. Right now the X1s are going for $250-300. In addition to the headphones, I am ready to spend around $150 extra on the mixamp, amp and mic to make the X1s function for gaming as well, just to give everyone an idea of my budget. 
  
 Oh, and as a closing bit, do you guys think this setup is a good choice overall? I listen to a lot of music, especially while studying, and I have 3 years of living, gaming and studying alone in law school ahead of me next fall. I currently have V-Mada LP2s as my go-to cans but they are two years old and beat to hell, which is why they are my on the go pair for traveling, walking around, going to class, etc. I occasionally listen to Bose AE2s and as I said before I have my Trittons for gaming. I think my proposed X1 setup makes sense for me, since the X1s will work for gaming and general listening at home or in the office. If people think there is a better solution I am more than open to hearing their thoughts


----------



## Stillhart

vercify said:


> Before I start, I would like to thank Mad and all the other people who have contributed to make this guide so informative. I have read through most of the guide and the last few pages of comments here and want to lay my thoughts out to make sure I understand everything I've read and that I am buying the right stuff! I've been lurking here for a few months now and this is my first post.
> 
> I currently have an Xbox One and am using the older Tritton AX720s for surround-sound gaming. The front is pictured below, the rear has the power plug, a "Voice to PS3" port and the optical port that connects to my Xbox One. I include this because, if in understand correctly, this box is unable to accommodate anything other than my Trittons. I am hoping someone can confirm this or, if not, tell me how I could go about hooking up other headphones to this device.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So let's see, some points in no particular order:
  
 1 - If you're considering the X1 and seeing it for $250-300, just get the X2.
  
 2 - The X1/2 + Boompro + mixamp is a wonderful setup overall, yes.
  
 3 - Honestly, I'm not 100% sure I'd recommend a Boompro setup with the Xbox One.  Currently you can't force the chat audio thru the speakers; it auto-detects what you have plugged in and makes a wild guess as to what you want.  For some reason, whenever I used the Boompro, it always guessed wrong. 
  
 Now I'm not saying you should give up on the idea.  I'm just saying you should be prepared to have some potential issues to troubleshoot.  If you're not comfortable with that idea, there are other options like the Modmic or a cheap clip-on.
  
 4 - The Mixamp 5.8 is the wireless one.  They've been out of production for a while and they're not easy to find at a reasonable price.  It is doable, tho, with some patience on eBay.  Any of the other Mixamps (2011, 2013, 2014) will work fine.
  
 5 - If you're buying new, the Mixamp should come with your optical cable and 3.5mm->2.5mm cable.  No need to buy those separately.


----------



## vercify

LOL, I didn't even know the X2s existed! I will definitely look into those. I don't see any sense in paying the same price for the older version, though I do wish they shared the same color scheme  IMO the brown and silver on the X1s looks super classy, and everything electronic nowadays is black. Silly things like color can be a deal breaker for me, but I think I can live with the black X2s. 

That issue is quite annoying on Xbox One. I'm hoping the address it sometime in a patch, I should be able to choose where my chat audio is going. You could on the 360, idk why they took it out on the One. I'm not set on using the V-Moda boom mic, I only mentioned it because everyone says how awesome it is. Quite frankly if it doesn't end up working properly with my setup I will just get a clip on or something else. Would a headphone cord that has a microphone on it work ok with this setup? The aux cable on my LP2s has a microphone built in with volume adjustment buttons, would I be able to plug that into the X2s and use it as my mic? Hmm. 

Ok, so any mixamp will work, the wireless ones are just nicer because they are wireless, right? Is there a wireless mixamp that isn't an Astro in that same price range I could use as an alternative? Or at least something in that price range that would do the same thing?? Wireless seems like something I would want, as the cord mess on my Trittons is frustrating and why i was originally drawn to getting the new A50s.

Oh, and thanks for the speedy reply! I will check this thread later tonight


----------



## MichaelJames99

Hello all!
  
 I'm all about movies these days.  .. not so much into gaming but really want the best movie experience possible,
 Has anyone heard any reviews of the Sound Blaster x7?  I heard something about a Singapore release?  I also heard someone say that with OP AMPS it might be a dud?
 Are there any other processors being released I should be on the lookout for? 
  
 (fyi: I ended up buying the AKG k712 cans and I'm pretty happy with them so far....)  Interesting enough, when I workout I decided to try out the headphone jack on the Samsung TV I had from 2009 which has SRS Trusurround XT on the headphone and the tv has its own built in amp for the headphone too .. it honestly was not bad.  I compared it to the Recon3D + Musical Fidelity amp combo off of DirectTV Lord of the Rings movie and it actually sounded a little better.. it shouldn't but for me it did.  It does lack a little rear stage though.  But this was for casual watching of movies.... for real watching using headphones, I want something better for producing surround)


----------



## MichaelJames99

Question: For just playing movies, do I gain anything using a PS3 vs. PS4?  I won the Ps3 already.... and I also have a laptop which has a built in blu-ray player.  Which is best to use when going out to a 65" Plasma (VT65 from Panasonic)?  Audio is coming back thru headphone processor/amp and back thru home theater.


----------



## Stillhart

vercify said:


> LOL, I didn't even know the X2s existed! I will definitely look into those. I don't see any sense in paying the same price for the older version, though I do wish they shared the same color scheme
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  
 If you prefer the look of the X1, try to find a used one.  Prices should be coming down now that the X2 is out.
  


> That issue is quite annoying on Xbox One. I'm hoping the address it sometime in a patch, I should be able to choose where my chat audio is going. You could on the 360, idk why they took it out on the One. I'm not set on using the V-Moda boom mic, I only mentioned it because everyone says how awesome it is. Quite frankly if it doesn't end up working properly with my setup I will just get a clip on or something else. Would a headphone cord that has a microphone on it work ok with this setup? The aux cable on my LP2s has a microphone built in with volume adjustment buttons, would I be able to plug that into the X2s and use it as my mic? Hmm.


  
 I'm not sure why the Boompro causes that issue, so I can't tell you if it's specific to the Boompro, or if it's something with the single cable with mic built-in.  In theory other cords will work fine... the Mixamp accepts a 4-pole connection.  But I don't know if that will make it work better than the Boompro.
  


> Ok, so any mixamp will work, the wireless ones are just nicer because they are wireless, right? Is there a wireless mixamp that isn't an Astro in that same price range I could use as an alternative? Or at least something in that price range that would do the same thing?? Wireless seems like something I would want, as the cord mess on my Trittons is frustrating and why i was originally drawn to getting the new A50s.
> 
> Oh, and thanks for the speedy reply! I will check this thread later tonight


 
  
 The Mixamp 5.8 is the only wireless option that isn't built-in to the actual headphone.  Don't expect miracles with it tho.  It's still cluttery, it's just not creating a tripping hazard across your living room floor.  All the clutter is in your lap or on the couch next to you.


----------



## hi2chris

So I narrowed  it down further, 
  
 Found a place selling AKG K712 Pro for $380 AUD which seems like a great deal and with MLE comments on them looks like the best headphone i can get.
  
 But before i make the plunge any improvements that can be made for this set up or recommendations? this will primarily for PS4 gaming
  
 Mixamp 2015
 modmic
 AKG K712 Pro
  
 thank you


----------



## Stillhart

hi2chris said:


> So I narrowed  it down further,
> 
> Found a place selling AKG K712 Pro for $380 AUD which seems like a great deal and with MLE comments on them looks like the best headphone i can get.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's a pretty kick ass setup.  You might find yourself wanting additional amping in some circumstances, but I don't think you need to buy an amp right away; use it for a bit and decide later if the volume gets loud enough for your needs.
  
 If you plan on using it for music later as well, you'll almost certainly want an amp to really get the most out of those headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

Unrelated note, I impulsively bought an HD700 today since it was on sale for $325 from Sennheiser.  I'm looking forward to seeing how these do for gaming.  Has anyone on here actually tried them for gaming?  I know AxelCloris knows some people who use it for gaming.  Anyone else?  Mad?
  
 For that price, even if they suck, I shouldn't have much problem getting rid of them for no loss.


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> The reason it was so recommended back in the day is that you could get it for like $80.  It's been discontinued and replaced with the AD700X, which is pretty much the same but a lot more expensive.  Once you're into the $150+ price range, there is a lot of competition and the AD700X is no longer the clear-cut choice.


 
 Woow okay $80 that's cheap. This afternoon I saw them on a website for 160 euros....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Edit: nvm, I forgot that I mentioned it on AVS not headfi. The avs guide was quite different and outdated.

Anyways,



THAT PIECE SPLITS INTO TWO. IT MAY NOT LOOK LIKE IT, BUT IT DOES, REVEALING THE AUDIO AND MIC INPUTS LOLCAPS



I didn't read it all, but someone asked if the Tritton box has a headset jack... now... CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, but didn't I mention that the cable's puck splits into two pieces revealing an audio and mic jack?

If for whatever reason you have a single cable with both game/voice channels, like the Vmoda Boompro, all you need is a splitter, which IIRC, the Boompro comes with, or can be bought for stupid cheap.

Basically if you have the Tritton box, and the cable with the puck that it comes with... you don't need much else.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Does anyone have any thoughts on my 2 posts above?


----------



## Plexon

Hey guys, I recently posted asking about my setup (Dt 770 MagniModi SBZ) but I was suggested this:
  
 Asus Sonar STX
  
 AKG Q701
  
 ModMic 4.0
  
 I'll also be recieving a UDAC 3 from NuForce for testing, so maybe I could use that as well?
  
 Thanks in advance, if you have any suggestions on a nice pair of cans for gaming, tell me!


----------



## hi2chris

michaeljames99 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on my 2 posts above?


 

 PS3 is a very good Blu-Ray player no need to upgrade to a ps4
  
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/ps4-201312173519.htm
  
 this is old and Sony have added 3d support now but nevertheless from when i last looked into the subject earlier this year PS3 > PS4 from a purely Blu-Ray experience.


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on my 2 posts above?


 
  
 This isn't really the best thread for questions about your home theater setup, which is probably why nobody answered.
  
 Regarding the X7, do a search.  People talk about it all the time in this thread.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Edit: nvm, I forgot that I mentioned it on AVS not headfi. The avs guide was quite different and outdated.
> 
> Anyways,
> 
> ...



LOLOLOLOLOL

But seriously, I'm pretty sure you did mention it, but possibly in-thread a few years ago rather than in the guide. Good call out.

Somebody asked if they could use the V-MODA inline mic... You can, I have done so, but people complained that I sounded quiet unless I had the cable dangling down my face with the mic in front of my mouth. These people may be slightly deaf (jk, but more seriously not everyone complained). Useful to mention is a few months back I discovered a setting on the PS4 "devices" settings that allows you to increase mic gain, and that might've gone a long way to ameliorating the issue and had a nice near-field mic... Maybe I could've had it off of my face! Regardless, I was eventually driven to the much more practical USB mic route.


----------



## chicolom

stillhart said:


> Unrelated note, I impulsively bought an HD700 today since it was *on sale for $325* from Sennheiser.


 
  
  
 What?!
  
 Where did you find it for that??


----------



## Stillhart

chicolom said:


> What?!
> 
> Where did you find it for that??  :eek:



Senneiser has a 35% off coupon right now. $500 for used like new at the outlet less 35% = o.O


----------



## AxelCloris

I did the same. Now I'll have two HD700. The new in box one will need to go back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I prefer my ps3 for blu ray over ps4. Its easier to navigate, and I feel it looks better for some reason. The ps4 is still lacking in options.

X2 is apparently being delivered on Tuesday.


----------



## chicolom

stillhart said:


> Senneiser has a 35% off coupon right now. $500 for used like new at the outlet less 35% = o.O


 
  
  
 Wow.
  
 HMMMmmmmmmmm.......
  
 ......I was thinking about picking up an X2......Not sure if I'd like the HD700, but for $325 I'd definitely try them out!
  
 Too bad it's out of stock though... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


axelcloris said:


> I did the same. Now I'll have two HD700. The new in box one will need to go back.


 
  
  
 Oh, have you tried them yet?  Impressions?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No Chicolom,
  
 there's only one way for you and THAT IS NOT THE HD 700.


----------



## chicolom

fegefeuer said:


> No Chicolom,
> 
> there's only one way for you and THAT IS NOT THE HD 700.


 
  
 But............$325!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Do this 4 times and you'll feel instant regret! Plus there was a recent Amazon HD 800 warehouse sale (supposedly) where it went for below 1000. THAT'S WHAT YOU MISSED
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-impressions-thread/14670#post_10984714


----------



## vangegoes

I'm thinking about getting some 598s most for playing games I have this mother board http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5221#ov and not really sure if i should get a amp or not.


----------



## RRod

vangegoes said:


> I'm thinking about getting some 598s most for playing games I have this mother board http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5221#ov and not really sure if i should get a amp or not.


 
  
 It uses as Realtek ALC1150 that puts out 1.1Vrms @ 32ohms, plus it has a gain switch inside, so I think you'll be ok with the HD598s.


----------



## Toxos

stillhart said:


> Senneiser has a 35% off coupon right now. $500 for used like new at the outlet less 35% = o.O


 
 ihlkjdshflkhfdsglkjaewlkjhsdkjhgjklshdf WHAT I NEED THEM. I went to the store and it said in-stock and when I added to cart, it said out of stock... I cried a little...


----------



## burritoboy9984

toxos said:


> ihlkjdshflkhfdsglkjaewlkjhsdkjhgjklshdf WHAT I NEED THEM. I went to the store and it said in-stock and when I added to cart, it said out of stock... I cried a little...




The code is expired anyways.


----------



## Stillhart

I can't keep all my headphones; this was a very impulsive buy. If I decide to sell the HD700, I will put them on the classified with no markup. First come first served. 

Tho Axel got a good deal on his first pair. Maybe someone can convince him to sell those...


----------



## Toxos

burritoboy9984 said:


> The code is expired anyways.


 
 Art thoest sureth? I keep seeing that it expires Dec 31st but I may be wrong.


----------



## Fwee

so ive looked at this review and ive used a hd 555 since 2005 and im wondering if i should get the http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sennheiser-HD598-Audiophile-Sound-Headphones-E.A.R.-Stereo-with-Wood-Accent-Refurbished/41290674?sourceid=csepg01edff94c4e92c45a1b262fac8989dc186&wmlspartner=pricegrabber.com&affcmpid=805701395&tmode=0000&veh=cse
  
 or one of the new game one or game zero sennheisers allthough ive heard they arent too good? and a probably better choice is to get headphones without a microhpone built in
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/pc-gaming-headset
  
 i think im going with the hd 598. i cant go wrong with an =upgrade of the same line from the same company who delivered the best performance 10 years ago compared to these newer models of new gaming headphones


----------



## chicolom

stillhart said:


> I can't keep all my headphones; this was a very impulsive buy. If I decide to sell the HD700, I will put them on the classified with no markup. First come first served.


*Cough - PM me - Cough*


----------



## Fwee

check out this deal i scored on some Sennheiser HD 598 headphones!
  
http://imgur.com/L3tQcJB
  
 they have hundreds of them
  
 it was refurbished but obviously refurbished means hardware performance perfect and maybe a scratch or 2 in outer use
  
 bought it for $145.34 with a coupon applied from vm innovations
  
http://vminnovations.com/Product_14572/Sennheiser-HD598-Audiophile-Sound-Headphones-Refurbished-.html
  
 i used a 5% off coupon found on google
  
http://www.retailmenot.com/view/vminnovations.com?c=6072540


----------



## Stillhart

Obvious spam is obvious.


----------



## vercify

mad lust envy said:


> Edit: nvm, I forgot that I mentioned it on AVS not headfi. The avs guide was quite different and outdated.
> 
> Anyways,
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ahhh I tried this but I must have plugged my LP2s into the mic slot because no sound was coming out. I didn't even try the second slot, I assumed it wouldn't work! This is a HUGE find, now all I need to do is get a mic and to decide between the X1s and X2s!! Oh, and am I going to need an amp for this setup...? That was the other aspect I am not very familiar with. 
  
 It indeed was not mentioned in the guide's OP; you gave me a heart attack for a second, lol. Your review mentioned that the box was a good value when getting the AX720s though, so it was sort of implied, hence me asking for clarification! Might be a good note to add to that headset, idk how many others are in my boat or not. Also, that box and puck seem to be much easier to find affordably than the old mixamp 5.8.
  
 Mad, you said you are getting the X2s next week? I think I will wait for your review on them before deciding which model to get. I am partial to the color scheme of the X1s but am hesitant to spend a similar amount on the previous model. I'm very curious to hear your opinion on the differences between the X1 and X2.


----------



## Toxos

chicolom said:


> *Cough - PM me - Cough*


 
 They are back in stock but I think the other burrito guy was right because I cannot seem to use the code... try it and let me know if it works for you.


----------



## Stillhart

vercify said:


> Mad, you said you are getting the X2s next week? I think I will wait for your review on them before deciding which model to get. I am partial to the color scheme of the X1s but am hesitant to spend a similar amount on the previous model. I'm very curious to hear your opinion on the differences between the X1 and X2.


 
  
 Go read Tyll's review on Innerfidelity.  It's already on his Wall of Fame.  I don't think you need to wait, the X2 is supposed to fix everything that was wrong with the X1.


----------



## Toxos

chicolom said:


> *Cough - PM me - Cough*


 
 Nvm... they are completely off the page now... I was trying to buy them and then the site just kinda crashed on me. Went back to re-add them to cart and uh... not even showing up.


----------



## chicolom

toxos said:


> Nvm... they are completely off the page now... I was trying to buy them and then the site just kinda crashed on me. Went back to re-add them to cart and uh... not even showing up.


 
  
  
 Yeah, I can't see them at all now. 
  
 :\


----------



## Change is Good

I caved in, myself, on a new purchase.


----------



## Toxos

change is good said:


> I caved in, myself, on a new purchase.


 
 What did you get??


----------



## Change is Good

X2


----------



## AxelCloris

chicolom said:


> Wow.
> 
> HMMMmmmmmmmm.......
> 
> ...


 
  
 I haven't opened the box that's here as it's still sealed. Since I ordered the Like New before these arrived I may just return them So no gaming impressions yet. I'll probably have some around Wed/Thurs if the second pair ships in the same amount of time as the first.
  


stillhart said:


> I can't keep all my headphones; this was a very impulsive buy. If I decide to sell the HD700, I will put them on the classified with no markup. First come first served.
> 
> Tho Axel got a good deal on his first pair. Maybe someone can convince him to sell those...


 
  
 While I did get a good deal, I doubt $450 would tickle anyone's fancy as much as $350 (both after tax). Seems most people are wanting the ones from the outlet center rather than the NIB offerings.


----------



## vercify

stillhart said:


> Go read Tyll's review on Innerfidelity.  It's already on his Wall of Fame.  I don't think you need to wait, the X2 is supposed to fix everything that was wrong with the X1.


 
 Funny you should recommend it, I was researching the X2s and I actually stumbled across his review! I am going to have to do some more in-depth comparison but what jumped out to me was that X2s have a tad less bass (which would maybe reduce the fun factor for gaming...) and more easily removable ear cups. 
  
 I can't say I am entirely an audiophile (as in I may not be able to fully appreciate the benefits of the X1 over the X2) so since I like the look of the X1s more I may just wait for a price cut and pick those up. Hmm, we will see what else I can unearth while I mull it over.


----------



## Stillhart

vercify said:


> Funny you should recommend it, I was researching the X2s and I actually stumbled across his review! I am going to have to do some more in-depth comparison but what jumped out to me was that X2s have a tad less bass (which would maybe reduce the fun factor for gaming...) and more easily removable ear cups.
> 
> I can't say I am entirely an audiophile (as in I may not be able to fully appreciate the benefits of the X1 over the X2) so since I like the look of the X1s more I may just wait for a price cut and pick those up. Hmm, we will see what else I can unearth while I mull it over.


 
  
 I personally thought the bass was a bit much on the X1; it was muddy and walked all over the mids.  I thought the reduced bass on the X2 sounded like exactly what they needed to make the mids sound less recessed and more clear.  Guess we'll see when more people get their hands on them.


----------



## crocandy

Hi,

Haven't posted in Head-Fi since I research and bought my Earsonics which I love and still use daily. I guess that was a couple of years ago now. 

I know this is mainly a PC related thread with some console questions thrown in and I kind wanted to ask another PS4 related question. 

I'm after some headphones for gaming. Originally I was going to buy the latest Sony Golds then convinced myself that I'd be better spending more money and going for the Steelseries H, Astro a50 etc

However I made the fatal mistake of reading this thread and am likely to be financially poorer for it. 

I'm more than likely going to go for the Q701 if my bald head can handle the comfort or the X2s. 

The question is what do I need to set them up to get the best chat and audio experience for gaming? I assume that I don't need to do anything with my Pioneer av receiver as I'll need to get some kind of other amp to output ds to the headphones.

Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I feel the X1s bass wasn't too much per se. What it was however, was a bit loose and uncontrolled, which did hamper the mids a bit. I've heard headphones with less bass be sloppier (A30s), and headphones with much more bass be quite controlled (Pro 900). Basshead headphones can be controlled. The X1 was walking a fine line between emphasized and quite bassy, not overly bassy. But man, if only Philips could control it a bit, it would've been beyond great.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> I feel the X1s bass wasn't too much per se. What it was however, was a bit loose and uncontrolled, which did hamper the mids a bit. I've heard headphones with less bass be sloppier (A30s), and headphones with much more bass be quite controlled (Pro 900). Basshead headphones can be controlled. The X1 was walking a fine line between emphasized and quite bassy, not overly bassy. But man, if only Philips could control it a bit, it would've been beyond great.


 
 Maybe this is done in the new Philips X2?


----------



## Evshrug

crocandy said:


> Hi,
> 
> *Point 1: *I know this is mainly a PC related thread with some console questions thrown in and I kind wanted to ask another PS4 related question.
> 
> ...




Point 1: LOL!
No seriously, I laughed! This is a console thread, people ask PC questions but we try to redirect them to more knowledgeable threads... Consoles are our speciality!

Point 2: There are GREAT deals on the Q701 and it should not be overlooked, I am in the process of balding (haven't given up and shaved yet) but comfort is SOLVED with a simple headband wrap... I use a baby seatbelt cover from Toys "R" Us. The X2 is probably great too but also probably 2x the price over the former AKG flagship (not as strong marketing as other brands).

point 3: just try it with the pioneer, it might even have a headphone surround processing mode. You can try another processor later. For a mic I find it's super simple with PS4 to just get a USB mic so that chat audio still gets piped out to "speakers" and thus your receiver or a headphone processor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> Maybe this is done in the new Philips X2?




It is. The X2 is more neutral than the X1. This may not be the best thing for those who wanted the same level of bass. And apparently the X2 could stand to be a bit tighter in the bass.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> It is. The X2 is more neutral than the X1. This may not be the best thing for those who wanted the same level of bass. And apparently the X2 could stand to be a bit tighter in the bass.


 
  
 When are yours coming in?


----------



## crocandy

evshrug said:


> Point 1: LOL!
> No seriously, I laughed! This is a console thread, people ask PC questions but we try to redirect them to more knowledgeable threads... Consoles are our speciality!
> 
> Point 2: There are GREAT deals on the Q701 and it should not be overlooked, I am in the process of balding (haven't given up and shaved yet) but comfort is SOLVED with a simple headband wrap... I use a baby seatbelt cover from Toys "R" Us. The X2 is probably great too but also probably 2x the price over the former AKG flagship (not as strong marketing as other brands).
> ...




Thanks for the reply. 

All I need to do now is find out if my Pioneer SC-LX56 has headphone processing. The headphones looks like it could be much simpler as Q701s and X2s seem to only differ be around £20 with the X2s being the most expensive at approximately £220. The usb mic maybe a problem as I'll need approximately a 4m cable to reach my seat. I guess a clip on lapel mic maybe an option.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> It is. The X2 is more neutral than the X1. This may not be the best thing for those who wanted the same level of bass. And apparently the X2 could stand to be a bit tighter in the bass.



Well most owners of the X1 said THAT headphone could stand to have tighter bass, I haven't heard it but I suspect in your review (eh? EH?) that you'll say the bass is tighter in the X2.




crocandy said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> All I need to do now is find out if my Pioneer SC-LX56 has headphone processing. The headphones looks like it could be much simpler as Q701s and X2s seem to only differ be around £20 with the X2s being the most expensive at approximately £220. The usb mic maybe a problem as I'll need approximately a 4m cable to reach my seat. I guess a clip on lapel mic maybe an option.



Ah, didn't realize you were in Europe. $200 USD is still a good deal on Q701, though intermittently we were finding them for less here. I bought mine used for $200 US, and I definitely felt it was worth it, loved it for about two years. By comparison, the X2 is like $300 US (I think).

I have a blue snowball USB, came with a 2m cable I think, I sat back just a bit less than a meter away from it and friends told me it was picking up my voice just fine. The tricky thing about lapel mics is how do you hear both game audio and chat audio... If you go the lapel mic route, you'll want a Mixamp or Recon3D (Recon3D is available bundled with a wireless headphone on Creative's website Black Friday sale in the US... May have deals near you?)


----------



## lenroot77

I just picked up a pair of PC 350 SE's for 130 bucks off amazon. Pretty decent sounding and great noise isolation. Can sound pretty fun when I bump the bass up on the dss. Guess I wasn't expecting much as people are pretty hard on headsets. I couldn't see spending over 200 for these or the game zero's. But for 130 they seem pretty solid.


----------



## famibica

Guys, if anyone can help me, im looking for these headphones. The price is not so important because they have few difference in price(at germany).
  
 - NAD HP50 - i heard that their cables are weak and have some problems, i must buy a new cable set at germany probably(cant by from USA right now)
 - ATH-AG1
 - ATH-ADG1
 I saw some reviews on the ATH-AG1 and ATH-ADG1 they look good but their price is very high in germany, and people say that the details(on the sound) are not so good on this ones.
 - PC 363d(i guess they are not selling anymore PC360 at amazon.de) - Low bass, which makes the gamming less immersive. ( or the game version one )
 - Custom One Pro -  seems like a good headphone, can buy the mic from beyerdynamic(for about 50 euros), have a customizable bass but the details and the sound overall is not so good.
 - MMX 300 - very expensive one but it comes with all the pack and a good build quality.
 - Sony MA900 - i found this to be very good for gaming according to this guide, and they are not SOO expensive.

 I would like to have a good Headphone/Headset that have a decent bass, that is good for music and gamming and obviously it must have a good build quality to last longer because they are expensive for me.
  
 If anyone can suggest another headphone/headset for me its important that they are not made of real leather, i dont use real leather in anything.(im vegetarian, so...)
  
 Thanks for your help guys, excellent topic.
 Im sorry about any problems on my english.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> I just picked up a pair of PC 350 SE's for 130 bucks off amazon. Pretty decent sounding and great noise isolation. Can sound pretty fun when I bump the bass up on the dss. Guess I wasn't expecting much as people are pretty hard on headsets. I couldn't see spending over 200 for these or the game zero's. But for 130 they seem pretty solid.


 
  
 I have them too. I want to say you could have waited a bit longer and wait for BF since they might drop in price. But still a good headset under 150 dollars. What amp are you using? Since they do require amping to sound good.
  
 The only thing i dont like about its sound quality is its smaller soundstage, compared to the X1 I had. It still sounds better to me compared to the A40s. Positional accuracy in the PC350 is pretty good too, not alot of bass, so that helps alot in terms of clarity in mids and highs. Probably would be an ideal headphone if you go to LAN parties where you need that isolation. 
  
 I kind of want to say one of the best headsets out there for a competitive type of headphone. Kingston Hyper X cloud might be a good overall headset, especially for immersion, since alot of reviews indicate they even like it for music.


----------



## altrunox

So, my friend asked me, and I don`t know what to answer so...
  
 What`s the overrall consensus about the creative vs asus software for gaming? I guess the creative is the most recommended right?
 And the  xfi hd and similars can work with an Xbox One? 
  
Sorry, total noob on this gaming stuff


----------



## Stillhart

altrunox said:


> So, my friend asked me, and I don`t know what to answer so...
> 
> What`s the overrall consensus about the creative vs asus software for gaming? I guess the creative is the most recommended right?
> And the  xfi hd and similars can work with an Xbox One?
> ...


 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ROujJ8Ae8
  
 Watch this with headphones on and decide for yourself.  SBX is Creative and Asus uses Dolby Headphone.
  
 EDIT - Mad, when are you gonna put this on the front page?


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> I have them too. I want to say you could have waited a bit longer and wait for BF since they might drop in price. But still a good headset under 150 dollars. What amp are you using? Since they do require amping to sound good.
> 
> The only thing i dont like about its sound quality is its smaller soundstage, compared to the X1 I had. It still sounds better to me compared to the A40s. Positional accuracy in the PC350 is pretty good too, not alot of bass, so that helps alot in terms of clarity in mids and highs. Probably would be an ideal headphone if you go to LAN parties where you need that isolation.
> 
> I kind of want to say one of the best headsets out there for a competitive type of headphone. Kingston Hyper X cloud might be a good overall headset, especially for immersion, since alot of reviews indicate they even like it for music.



I have then running thru a dss>fiio e09k... I think the soundstage is pretty decent for a closed headphone.


----------



## pebuzerA

so, what would be better a Creative Sound Blaster Z or asus Xonar DGX to my Superlux hd681, I play very Counter strike global offensive, and I want to play more games FPS


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> so, what would be better a Creative Sound Blaster Z or asus Xonar DGX to my Superlux hd681, I play very Counter strike global offensive, and I want to play more games FPS


 
  
 I posted a comparison of SBX vs DH literally *TWO* posts ago.  Go listen to it, decide which you like best.  Get the Asus if you like DH and the Z if you like SBX.


----------



## lenroot77

Was that 2 posts ago?!?


----------



## pebuzerA

our I saw some videos that mainly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA, and liked most of studio pro sbx, not enjoyed the dolby headphone!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My X2 will be here Tuesday. Hype commencing in 3....2...


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> My X2 will be here Tuesday. Hype commencing in 3....2...


 
  






  
 Hype has already been commenced, but let's hope they're a worthy successor...


----------



## stevendom

Mad Lust Envy would you say the ath-ad900x's have about equal soundstage to the ath-ad700's?
 what rating would you give the ath-ad900x's?


----------



## chicolom

Just randomly checked ebay looking at X1 prices and was surprised and confused to see that MY pair was for sale....


----------



## chicolom

stevendom said:


> Mad Lust Envy would you say the ath-ad900x's have about equal soundstage to the ath-ad700's?
> what rating would you give the ath-ad900x's?


 
  
 Haven't heard the AD900x, but speaking in terms of AD900 and AD700, the AD700 has a slightly superior soundstage,  The positioning is a tad more diffuse and less precise on the AD900 in comparison. 
  
 FWIR those traits may carry over with the AD900X as well.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> My X2 will be here Tuesday. Hype commencing in 3....2...


 
 Sgt. MLE! We expect a full report on these!
  
 For anybody curious, this is what the Mixamp and A40 look like when disassembled:
  
 http://www.overclock.net/t/731358/video-guide-astro-a40-headset-and-mixamp-disassembly
  
 There is a website printed on the back of the Mixamp's PCB
  
 http://www.etherdigital.com.cn/
  
 Looks like they're chinese company making cheap audio products. I'm browsing the page right now, I'll post if I find anything useful in there.


----------



## stevendom

chicolom said:


> Haven't heard the AD900x, but speaking in terms of AD900 and AD700, the AD700 has a slightly superior soundstage,  The positioning is a tad more diffuse and less precise on the AD900 in comparison.
> 
> FWIR those traits may carry over with the AD900X as well.


 
 I'm looking to game and listen to music, mostly rap. what headphones would you recommend?
 I was deciding between athad900x, ath-ad700x, and hd598, but I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## chicolom

stevendom said:


> I'm looking to game and listen to music,* mostly rap*. what headphones would you recommend?
> I was deciding between athad900x, ath-ad700x, and hd598, but I'm open to suggestions.


 
  
 Oh.  Stay away from either ADx00 then.  They're called the "Air" series for a reason, and it's NOT for having good bass.
 HD598 doesn't have too much bass either.
  
 I used sub $200 pair of X1s would be good if you could swing it, as they've got bass and also are excellent for gaming (hard to do both simultaneously as they can be contradictory).


----------



## AxelCloris

For any of you AKG fans it seems that I can finally talk openly about Massdrop's newest announcement, the AKG K7xx headphone.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/new-release-the-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-an-exclusive-from-massdrop-and-akg
  
 It's based on the K702 Anniversary and it's only going to set you back $200. Hells yeah. Depending on funds I'll either be getting a set in the first or second wave.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Sgt. MLE! We expect a full report on these!
> 
> For anybody curious, this is what the Mixamp and A40 look like when disassembled:
> 
> ...




Interesting, looks like they have what's basically a mixamp 5.8 (but the receiver looks like an enlarged iPod Shuffle). Can't find a consumer product store to buy these things though.


----------



## stevendom

chicolom said:


> Oh.  Stay away from either ADx00 then.  They're called the "Air" series for a reason, and it's NOT for having good bass.
> HD598 doesn't have too much bass either.
> 
> I used sub $200 pair of X1s would be good if you could swing it, as they've got bass and also are excellent for gaming (hard to do both simultaneously as they can be contradictory).


 
 that's a little more than I wanted to spend. Any recommendations below $200?


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> For any of you AKG fans it seems that I can finally talk openly about Massdrop's newest announcement, the AKG K7xx headphone.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/new-release-the-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-an-exclusive-from-massdrop-and-akg
> 
> It's based on the K702 Anniversary and it's only going to set you back $200. Hells yeah. Depending on funds I'll either be getting a set in the first or second wave.


 
  
 These days, my Q is basically just on console duty.  I doubt upgrading will be worth the money.  But I'll wait for the first drop to see what others think.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> For any of you AKG fans it seems that I can finally talk openly about Massdrop's newest announcement, the AKG K7xx headphone.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/new-release-the-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-an-exclusive-from-massdrop-and-akg
> 
> It's based on the K702 Anniversary and it's only going to set you back $200. Hells yeah. Depending on funds I'll either be getting a set in the first or second wave.


 
  
  
 "K7XX"?? 
  
 Ha, is that an inside joke as there's been so many different K7xx headphones?
  
 Looks in the pics like it's using the Anniversaries slightly less plump ear pads.
  
 Still $200 is quite good.  Makes the K612 less appealing.


----------



## chicolom

stevendom said:


> that's a little more than I wanted to spend. Any recommendations below $200?


 
  
 They HyperX Cloud are pretty decent, and would work OK for rap.  The soundstage isn't going to be on par with the open headphones over 100, but it's good for a sub 100 closed can.


----------



## hi2chris

what amp is typically recommended with the AKG K712?
 I was going to buy this with a Mixamp but seems that an amp is still required so thinking i may just buy the headphones now and look at the X7 in the new year. As the X7 will be able to act as both the Mixamp and an amp then it won't cost that much more


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> "K7XX"??
> 
> Ha, is that an inside joke as there's been so many different K7xx headphones?
> 
> ...




Depends though. The K612 is definitely more neutrally balanced.

As for the ear pads.... they look like OG Annie pads before they were changed to use the K712 pads. I actually prefer the sound of the OG pads, as they were a tad bit warmer, and more intimate sounding. Perhaps that's where the stock went, the further differentiate the models.

Before anyone asks... OG = shorthand for original generation, sigh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stevendom said:


> that's a little more than I wanted to spend. Any recommendations below $200?




K612. There's your recommendation.


----------



## rudyae86

Well, I decided that I wont purchase the X2 anymore, at least not anytime soon or a good price drop happens next year. I miss my X1 but Im joining the AKG K7xx bandwagon .
  
 Im actually quite excited since these will be my first pair of AKG. I was going to get a pair of AKGk712 earlier last week but the best available price of 338 was gone  and I was stuck between getting the X2 or.......well just the X2 lol.
  
 I cant wait for the K7XX. I already have the page saved and checking it everytime i remember about it. (hmm stares at savings account....)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bet it's gonna sound amazing.

If it wasn't for the X2, I'd have dove headfirst into the K7XX. Lately all I have looked for is just something affordable that I could use for all purposes. The K7XX would've fit that bill quite easily, especially if it sounds like the Annie.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Bet it's gonna sound amazing.
> 
> If it wasn't for the X2, I'd have dove headfirst into the K7XX. Lately all I have looked for is just something affordable that I could use for all purposes. The K7XX would've fit that bill quite easily, especially if it sounds like the Annie.


 
 Just cancel your order lol
  
 But yeah, I will still buy the X2, regardless of what I have. K7xx may just be used for gaming and X2 more for like movies and some gaming. I just like that fact that I can use my Vmoda with the X2 easily, while the AKG i will need to purchase an adapter of sort to make it work with the Vmoda


----------



## pebuzerA

hey people what the best headphone only for gaming?


----------



## chicolom

pebuzera said:


> hey people what the best headphone only for gaming?


HD800.


----------



## Elf-1

What's the difference between the Sennheiser HD 558 and the HD 598? Which one would be your choice and why? And would they desire/need an amp (next to mixamp)?


----------



## kenshinhimura

chicolom said:


> HD800.


----------



## martin vegas

chicolom said:


> HD800.


 

 Has anyone tried the K812 for gaming? I am thinking about getting a pair for my gaming pc to use with a STX II!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Just cancel your order lol
> 
> But yeah, I will still buy the X2, regardless of what I have. K7xx may just be used for gaming and X2 more for like movies and some gaming. I just like that fact that I can use my Vmoda with the X2 easily, while the AKG i will need to purchase an adapter of sort to make it work with the Vmoda




Zombie_X makes some adapters for AKGs to use 3.5mm cables like the Boompro. However, AKGs will need some extra amping for the Mixamp. That means that with the Boompro, you'll need to use the accompanying splitter so you can separate vame and mic audio and attach an amp on the game audio side. I assume the X2 will be okay when using a mic and no amp. I'll know in a few days.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Zombie_X makes some adapters for AKGs



No, he doesn't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, he did, smartass.


----------



## elimelim

has anyone tried the DTS headphone x technology? is it any good for games over our current dolby processors found in the mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

elimelim said:


> has anyone tried the DTS headphone x technology? is it any good for games over our current dolby processors found in the mixamp?


 
 There is only one pair of headphones that support it and they're 300$ wireless gaming headphones (Turtle Beach Elite 800). Pretty sure nobody has that kind of cash to burn on a product that is probably going to be mediocre anyway.


----------



## cdsa35000

Cheapest Turtle Beach Ear Force Z60 with DTS Headphone:X 7.1 for $120.
http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-Headphone/dp/B00I0S7JH6
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/10/09/turtle-beach-ear-force-z60-review


But these are "fake" 7.1 dts headphone x, since the true dts x must be encode with 11.1 dts hp x audio stream.
And another one for $130.
http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Stealth-Premium-Wireless-Headset-Headphone/dp/B00MNP9PD8/ref=pd_cp_pc_3/181-1078598-3211533


----------



## stevendom

mad lust envy said:


> K612. There's your recommendation.


 
 Do you think an amp is necessary for these to sound good?
 I didn't plan on buying an amp because I don't want to spend to much?
 Sorry if i sound stupid  I'm a Noob when it comes to this stuff.


----------



## Yethal

stevendom said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > K612. There's your recommendation.
> ...


 
 Read the review on the first page.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I stopped believing most people even check the first page. Instead, they immediately jump to asking questions.

Then people wonder why I generally don't answer questions or private messages.

Here is THAT QUESTION ANSWERED RIGHT ON THE K612 REVIEW

*



			Amping:

Essential

The K612 Pro is a higher impedance than it's 7xx siblings, and therefore demands more power to hit a moderate volume in comparison. For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic. Even with the Mixamp putting all it's power on game audio, the K612 pro hits moderate, not high volume levels.

.
		
Click to expand...

*


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Well, he did, smartass.


 
 Yes, he made a prototype, then mailed it to some rando who had 10 posts and stole it.  Then he didn't make anymore.  That was months ago.
  
 I think it's fair to say that we can stop telling people that there's an adapter.  It's too bad, too.  Plenty of people would pay way too much for one.  Maybe I'll email Monoprice and see if they can make one...


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Zombie_X makes some adapters for AKGs to use 3.5mm cables like the Boompro. However, AKGs will need some extra amping for the Mixamp. That means that with the Boompro, you'll need to use the accompanying splitter so you can separate vame and mic audio and attach an amp on the game audio side. I assume the X2 will be okay when using a mic and no amp. I'll know in a few days.


 

 Oh yeah, Not sure if he makes those adapters upon request..? I use the recon3d as well but ill be using a sound blaster z on my pc. Either way, Im probably going to get a Vali later on this year or early next year. Fiio E11 will do for now..


----------



## pebuzerA

personnel, creative sound blaster Z supports a akg K612 good? and what would be a cool headphone to play and listen to Rock music? I'm in doubt between the ath ad700x, akg K612 and would have another option?


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> personnel, creative sound blaster Z supports a akg K612 good? and what would be a cool headphone to play and listen to Rock music? I'm in doubt between the ath ad700x, akg K612 and would have another option?


 
  
 It will be fine with the Z, tho you might want an additional amp later.  The 612 will be better for rock.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm sure some of us can get an exclusive limited edition adapter from Zombie_X


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I ever go back to AKG, I'll harass Zombie for one here and on PS4, lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

Once I pick up the K7xx I'll be hitting him up. Hopefully we can convince him that the adapter is a great idea and many of us would love to have it.


----------



## chicolom

martin vegas said:


> Has anyone tried the K812 for gaming? I am thinking about getting a pair for my gaming pc to use with a STX II!


 
  
 Yeah. @Fegefeuer.
  
 He wrote some nice comparisons between it and the HD800 at one point....


----------



## pebuzerA

then, I have a one xbox and wanted to call my headphone Superlux hd681 in any sound card to have surround effects, preferably a cheap sound card, anyone know?


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> then, I have a one xbox and wanted to call my headphone Superlux hd681 in any sound card to have surround effects, preferably a cheap sound card, anyone know?


 
 If you want surround from your Xbox One, you're limited to the Astro Mixamp, Sound Blaster Recon3D, Turtle Beach DSS, etc.  There is a list of them in the guide.  The DSS will be your cheapest option.


----------



## pebuzerA

but the dsl is cool sound does not lose quality? and where I find it to buy could send me the link?


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> but the dsl is cool sound does not lose quality? and where I find it to buy could send me the link?


 
  
 They don't make the DSS anymore so you need to get it off ebay.  You can still get the DSS2 new, I think.  I dunno, I'm not going to give you a link.  Use Google, you lazy ass.


----------



## pebuzerA

haha, thank you ok now to connect it to my xbox one I turn on the optical cable in one xbox and I turn on p2 of my headphone on her entry and put the xbox one options like digital dolby?


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> haha, thank you ok now to connect it to my xbox one I turn on the optical cable in one xbox and I turn on p2 of my headphone on her entry and put the xbox one options like digital dolby?


 
  
 I've never used the DSS or DSS2, so I can't say 100%.  You definitely need to connect it with the optical (for sound) and USB (for power), then set the Xbox to output Dolby.  For chatting, you'll still need the adapter to plug it into your controller... that's the part that I can't help with on the DSS.


----------



## stevendom

Opinion on best open headphones for rap that don't need an amp.
 preferably under $200


----------



## Stillhart

stevendom said:


> Opinion on best open headphones for rap that don't need an amp.
> preferably under $200


 
  
 Open?  Philips Fidelio X1.  With the X2 out now, you should be able to find them under $200.


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> Open?  Philips Fidelio X1.  With the X2 out now, you should be able to find them under $200.


 
 Yup, cant go wrong with the X1. Good all around headphone.


----------



## stevendom

stillhart said:


> Open?  Philips Fidelio X1.  With the X2 out now, you should be able to find them under $200.


 
 If you find any place where they get below 200 can you please let me know. 
 These are perfect.


----------



## Stillhart

stevendom said:


> If you find any place where they get below 200 can you please let me know.
> These are perfect.


 
  
 Since it's actually you, not I, who is shopping for them, it's much more likely that you'll find them than I will.


----------



## rudyae86

stevendom said:


> If you find any place where they get below 200 can you please let me know.
> These are perfect.


 
 Amazon has used ones for around that price. If you want new...you might find it this black friday or cyber monday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Calpis, I see you lurking you, you damn legendary pokemon.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Calpis, I see you lurking you, you damn legendary pokemon.


 
  
 Just because you know there's one in the grass does not mean it will simply come out and engage you.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Creative is posting in their X7 thread (under sponsors). 
  
 BOMBARD THEM WITH REQUESTING DTS. I KNOW IT WON'T HELP BUT JUST DO IT! Friendly of course. 
  
 The device has gone gold btw. (yes. pun intended)


----------



## crocandy

Well I think I may have just taken my first steps down a slippery slop to an empty wallet after picking up an astro mixamp (2011 I think) of eBay. 

Next on the list probably X2s and a vmoda boompro (looking forward to the review) 

Can anyone advise me on anything I've overlooked if I want to connect this to my ps4 please.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> Creative is posting in their X7 thread (under sponsors).
> 
> BOMBARD THEM WITH REQUESTING DTS. I KNOW IT WON'T HELP BUT JUST DO IT! Friendly of course.
> 
> The device has gone gold btw. (yes. pun intended)


 
 I'll certainly do so. I wonder whether it is something that can be implemented later, or not.


----------



## exzacklyright

What would be the most comfortable headphones? I have the AD700's right now from Audio Technica but want something more comfortable. I've been eyeing the DT-880s. Any suggestions?


----------



## RRod

exzacklyright said:


> What would be the most comfortable headphones? I have the AD700's right now from Audio Technica but want something more comfortable. I've been eyeing the DT-880s. Any suggestions?


 
  
 HD800s


----------



## famibica

Anybody here tested the NAD HP50 with the beyerdynamic mic with cable that are made for the custom one pro? (its very important to me)


----------



## AxelCloris

exzacklyright said:


> What would be the most comfortable headphones? I have the AD700's right now from Audio Technica but want something more comfortable. I've been eyeing the DT-880s. Any suggestions?


 
  
 Most comfortable headphones for me are the HD700, hands down. I've never worn anything more comfortable on my head. @Stillhart will probably back me up later this week.


----------



## tigim101

http://www.head-fi.org/t/743280/new-release-the-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-an-exclusive-from-massdrop-and-akg
  
  
 Massdrop and AKG have collabed to bring what seems like basically a rebranded K702 Anniversary in all black, for $200. I couldnt resist and pulled the trigger. It's called the K7XX, and this run is limited to 2000, but they said theyre making 6000. I'm not sure if I can link the dreaded group buy website, but the initial review of the K7XX is on the front page. Go get one now!!!!
  
  
 Edit: here's the link if anyone is too lazy https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones


----------



## AxelCloris

Welcome to the party, tigim101. We've been talking about those for a bit now.


----------



## tigim101

axelcloris said:


> Welcome to the party, tigim101. We've been talking about those for a bit now.


 
 Sorry, didn't bother to look if anyone mentioned them a few pages back, just heard of them this morning and it was like an early christmas.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yeah people have been talking about them since they were officially announced yesterday, it's pretty much the most interesting news that's come out recently. Partly thanks to the fact that it's based on the famous K702 Annie and partly the fact that it's removed the taboo around discussing Massdrop. Many people are excited for this one.


----------



## rudyae86

Its been secretly been talked for a few weeks actually. I actually heard about them last week, since I was wantig to buy the k712 but decided to jump on these instead. I kind of wanted to be number 10 but ended up being number 20 on the drop lol


----------



## AxelCloris

It's been secretly talked about for months. It just seems that the last few weeks less and less have been able to hide their excitement. About a week ago Massdrop teased a photo of them on their site and it's started generating interest. When the Massdrop team told me about them I wanted so badly to share the news with everyone, and that was back during the summer.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Most comfortable headphones for me are the HD700, hands down. I've never worn anything more comfortable on my head. @Stillhart will probably back me up later this week.


 
  
 At this point, I'm praying for this week.  If they don't ship soon, the long holiday weekend is going to really mess with my delivery times.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> At this point, I'm praying for this week.  If they don't ship soon, the long holiday weekend is going to really mess with my delivery times.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm hoping that mine ship out today too. Some people are starting to receive shipping notices. If it ships today I could, in theory, have mine by Wednesday. Since they're shipping UPS Ground I doubt it'd make it out to you before the holiday, if I'm honest. UPS Ground is pretty slow to get across country. Sometimes it takes 7 days for me to get something from Cali. Now if you paid for the normal UPS shipping, that's a different story.


----------



## Change is Good

So tempted to get one of those AKGs to compare with the X2. Grrrrrrr...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> So tempted to get one of those AKGs to compare with the X2. Grrrrrrr...


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## pebuzerA

staff bought the asus xonar DGX, which drivers have to install someone teaches me the procedure to do?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

From this point on, if anyone asks me what the best headphone is for $200, you guys can auto answer for me. The K7XX will be the easy answer, considering it's more than likely an Annie downmarked to a ridiculously affordable price level (by audiphile standards).

Seriously. Forget the MA900, K612, DT990 Pro. The K7XX for $200 is the one you'll want, IF you want a very balanced sound with some warmth in the bass and mids, and very good soundstage and comfort. You can then just buy some Q701 pads for it if you prefer a more detail focused and even more spacious sound. The only thing that keeps me from it is that it isn't exactly the easiest thing to drive when a mic is attached, which is why I'm still focused on the X2.


----------



## Stillhart

I'm just gonna keep recommending the HD800.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I'm just gonna keep recommending the HD800.


 
  
 SR-009 > HD 800


----------



## High Fidelity

If I went with the AKG K7XX, and bought the Q701 ear pads for when I wanted more detail for competitive gaming, would the K7XX with Q701 pads be a better overall set of headphones - sound, comfort, build quality - than the Q701? How difficult is it to source and purchase the Q701 pads? Are the K7XX and Q701 the same to drive? I play a large assortment of games so it's possible that I would be swapping ear pads frequently. How difficult is it to remove the pads, and if doing so frequently, what's the chance that I would damage them or the headphones at some point?


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> If I went with the AKG K7XX, and bought the Q701 ear pads for when I wanted more detail for competitive gaming, would the K7XX with Q701 pads be a better overall set of headphones - sound, comfort, build quality - than the Q701? How difficult is it to source and purchase the Q701 pads? Are the K7XX and Q701 the same to drive? I play a large assortment of games so it's possible that I would be swapping ear pads frequently. How difficult is it to remove the pads, and if doing so frequently, what's the chance that I would damage them or the headphones at some point?


 
  
 They're the same difficulty to drive as they're the exact same hardware except for the pads.  Pads are super easy to change, just twist and remove.  I wouldn't expect a massive difference, tho.  Might not be worth your while getting both.  *shrug*


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> They're the same difficulty to drive as they're the exact same hardware except for the pads.  Pads are super easy to change, just twist and remove.  I wouldn't expect a massive difference, tho.  Might not be worth your while getting both.  *shrug*


 
 I noticed in your sig that you have the Xbox One > Wireless Mixamp 5.8 > AKG Q701 setup. How well does the Mixamp 5.8 drive the Q701? What position is your volume dial usually? I have the latest Mixamp Pro with the AD700, which is very easy to drive. I usually have my volume set to 1/6 of max, which is the first tick on the dial.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> SR-009 > HD 800




I dunno, even then, I still see a lot of people preferring the HD800. Probably because it's closer to neutral, while the 009 is more leaning towards brightness.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> From this point on, if anyone asks me what the best headphone is for $200, you guys can auto answer for me. The K7XX will be the easy answer, considering it's more than likely an Annie downmarked to a ridiculously affordable price level (by audiphile standards).
> 
> Seriously. Forget the MA900, K612, DT990 Pro. The K7XX for $200 is the one you'll want, IF you want a very balanced sound with some warmth in the bass and mids, and very good soundstage and comfort. You can then just buy some Q701 pads for it if you prefer a more detail focused and even more spacious sound. The only thing that keeps me from it is that it isn't exactly the easiest thing to drive when a mic is attached, which is why I'm still focused on the X2.


 
 But only 6000 will be available......but that can change right? I dont think that would be the end of the line for a limited edition? If one thing runs this show, it has to be monaaaay lol
  
 Heck, now that I joined the drop and practically bought one...if they ever release another limited edition ( not including the next 2 drops after this one, then again who knows lol) I would purchase another. I never owned an AKG but from what I read in other threads and stuf, it just seems that its a brand you just cant go wrong.
  
 With that said, the X2 would still be my other top favorite headphone, for reasons you have already said. Easy to drive, flexibility with attaching a boom mic ( even the Phillips SHP9500 has a detachable cable, which MLE, you should check out)
  
 And honestly the X1/X2 Should be sitting next to this AKG K7XX Just because they are very versatile in what they do.


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> I noticed in your sig that you have the Xbox One > Wireless Mixamp 5.8 > AKG Q701 setup. How well does the Mixamp 5.8 drive the Q701? What position is your volume dial usually? I have the latest Mixamp Pro with the AD700, which is very easy to drive. I usually have my volume set to 1/6 of max, which is the first tick on the dial.


 
  
 When I'm not chatting, I have the volume at about 50-70% usually.  When I'm chatting too, I have to use my E11 to double amp it; 100% doesn't get loud enough and it's super hissy.


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> When I'm not chatting, I have the volume at about 50-70% usually.  When I'm chatting too, I have to use my E11 to double amp it; 100% doesn't get loud enough and it's super hissy.


 
 I was wondering, does the E11 reduce some sound stage or adds something to the sound signature? I have read that it give a bit of coloration to the sound but not really alot, maybe barely noticeable.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, even then, I still see a lot of people preferring the HD800. Probably because it's closer to neutral, while the 009 is more leaning towards brightness.




The HD 800 is slightly closer to neutral than the SR-009, though honestly I found both on the bright side, the SR-009 while slightly brighter has absolutely grain free highs unlike the HD 800, which makes the SR-009 less fatiguing on the ears than the HD 800. The reason some people prefer the HD 800 likely has to do with its holographic soundstage and razor precise imaging.


----------



## hi2chris

So i went for a bit of a drive to the only place that has AKG headphones to try out and tried the AKG K712 and K702.
  
 biggest difference was the K712 was much easier to listen too, the K702 was to sharp so just looking at the two the K712 is worth the $100 price difference to me.
  
 i was happy with the K712 but now im hearing some very good things about the Fidelio X2 and the great value K7xx has enterd the field.
  
 AKG K712 $380 vs AKG 7xx $215 Vs Fidelio X2 $380
  
 short of waiting a few weeks i may just have to bite the bullet since its doubtful anyone would have had the chance to compare all of these. Hopefully MLE can get a review up on the X2 shortly


----------



## Change is Good

I guess I'll be comparing the X2 to the K7XX whenever the first drop ships out. I'll even add the HP200, I already own, to the comparison. Should be a very interesting audiophile holiday season


----------



## Abula

mad lust envy said:


> My X2 will be here Tuesday. Hype commencing in 3....2...


 
 Really looking forward...... cant wait....


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I guess I'll be comparing the X2 to the K7XX whenever the first drop ships out. I'll even add the HP200, I already own, to the comparison. Should be a very interesting audiophile holiday season


 
  
 tl;dr Change is loaded.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And I am not. 

Change has owned the Annie, so should be interesting. He'll be able to confirm, if his memory is as good as his change. Ba dum tiss.


As for the X2 review, it's more than likely going to be put on headphone.guru, so you'll have to wait until then. I will put up short impressions though.


----------



## rudyae86

hi2chris said:


> So i went for a bit of a drive to the only place that has AKG headphones to try out and tried the AKG K712 and K702.
> 
> biggest difference was the K712 was much easier to listen too, the K702 was to sharp so just looking at the two the K712 is worth the $100 price difference to me.
> 
> ...


 

Well price wise, x2 should drop in price next year....so the price/sound quality ratio would equate to being it a bit of a better bang for buck...that is if it also randomly drops to 150 like the x1 did. For those few minutes, the X1 at 150 was probably the best bang for buck headphone....just for those few minutes. IMO of course.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I fully expect the X2 to settle around $230-$250 next year. Philips isn't anal about pricing, and their headphones go on sale quite a bit.

Next year is the year of the X2 and K7XX as far as that price range goes, I'm betting.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> tl;dr Change is loaded.




Been saving for about six months without buying anything


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You JUST bought an X2. :mad:


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Been saving for about six months without buying anything


 
  
 That must have been absolute agony for you.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> You JUST bought an X2. :mad:




I meant BEFORE that, smart ass 




axelcloris said:


> That must have been absolute agony for you.




Yeah, you know us Hispanics are terrible with money


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Yeah, you know us Hispanics are terrible with money


 
  
 If my signature is any indication, so are the Irish.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I meant BEFORE that, smart ass






Let's see who gets the X2 first, though judging by the time, I'll probably be dead asleep when mine arrive tomorrow. :rolleyes:


----------



## Stillhart

I haven't used them for gaming yet, but I'm pretty enamored with my new HD650 + Project Ember combo for music.  It's all I've been listening to since Saturday.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> I fully expect the X2 to settle around $230-$250 next year. Philips isn't anal about pricing, and their headphones go on sale quite a bit.
> 
> Next year is the year of the X2 and K7XX as far as that price range goes, I'm betting.




I wonder if the X2 will be the end of the line up? As in no X3? In Tyll's review, he said he expects that Phillips next flagship would be priced above the 400 dollar mark (i think thats what he said, not sure) but if thats the case, something reasonable would be to discontinue the X1 and continue the production of the X2...being with that said, I would suspect that the Fidelio X2 will have a longer life than the X1 and that the X2 will become more of a budget all arounder which could probably stay within the 200 range. Then again, retailers will always choose their pricing and sell at different prices. Even now I think amazon raised the price for the X1 to 299.99. Makes no sense when you can jump on the X2 for the same price.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> If my signature is any indication, so are the Irish.




I'll make sure to beat you to the classifieds, then. That is, once I decide which of the three I'm keeping: HP200, K7XX, or X2.



mad lust envy said:


> Let's see who gets the X2 first, though judging by the time, I'll probably be dead asleep when mine arrive tomorrow. :rolleyes:




Mine won't be here until Wednesday. I'll make sure to stay off head-fi, tomorrow. You BETTA NOT mention or say "X2" when we raid, tomorrow


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll be USING them when raiding. 


Stillhart, I'm glad you love the 650. It really is a special headphone. Not exactly the best suited for gaming, but man oh man, it is a joy for music and general media. I just wish it wasn't so amp-reliant.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'll be USING them when raiding.




I'll just mute you, then...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

:'(


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I meant BEFORE that, smart ass
> Yeah, you know us Hispanics are terrible with money







axelcloris said:


> If my signature is any indication, so are the Irish.




Despite my recent headphone purchase (which I'm still getting used to), I was sorely tempted by the recent Sennheiser sale... Nearly got one of those HD700. But that would've been my X7 money I've had set aside, and it'll be MUCH easier to use my STAX for gaming in the computer room once I get the X7. Then, I can REALLY test that headphone "system." Where's NamelessPFG, I feel like we should be chummy!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have Z7, K7XX incoming. no comparisons this year though.


----------



## Elf-1

Quick questions:
 1. What's the difference between the old Sennheiser PC360 and the new Sennheiser PC 363D?
  
 2. Does the integrated mic work on the PS4? 
  
 3. Do they require an amp next to the mixamp?


----------



## draven5494

change is good said:


> I guess I'll be comparing the X2 to the K7XX whenever the first drop ships out. I'll even add the HP200, I already own, to the comparison. Should be a very interesting audiophile holiday season


 
  
 I too will be comparing the X2 with the K7XX.  I am going to have a 3-way shootout so to speak.  The X2, K7XX and the SRH-1840.  My guess is that the K7XX will win just based on its price to performance ratio. 
  
 Round 1 begins today when my X2 arrives and goes head to head with the 1840.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Quick questions:
> 1. What's the difference between the old Sennheiser PC360 and the new Sennheiser PC 363D?
> 
> 2. Does the integrated mic work on the PS4?
> ...



I believe the 360 uses two 3.5mm jacks and the 363d uses USB (built in DAC). You'll want to avoid the USB one for gaming with a mixamp. The one with two jacks works just like any headphone and mic.


----------



## Toxos

X7, perhaps the AKG k7xx, 2 GTX 970's, ps4 and pc games, I am sooo sorry wallet...


----------



## elimelim

looking for a new headset to replace my 4 year old sharkoon xtatic 5.1 (its basically tritton ax pro rebranded) while the sound cues are great for competitive once you adjust bass, rear, front etc.. it has pretty bad sound quality overall as its cramming multiple speakers into each cup.
  
 my budget is around 300$ / £200  and it must be an all in one solution headset type. will be used for competitive + music + variety of games.
  
 i have narrowed it down to astro a40 + mixamp
  
 or
  
 sennheiser G4ME one & used astro mixamp
  
 or any other suggestions you can come up with. thanks


----------



## martin vegas

toxos said:


> X7, perhaps the AKG k7xx, 2 GTX 970's, ps4 and pc games, I am sooo sorry wallet...


 

 I am doing another gaming build with two gtx980's with three asus rog swift screens for the loft..don't no yet if I am getting the k712 or k812 to go with a asus stx 2 for gaming..i already have a 4k gaming build I just use for bf4 with two 7990s and a 84 inch 4k tv up on the wall with a pioneer susano with 8.2 s81 surround speakers!


----------



## Change is Good

draven5494 said:


> I too will be comparing the X2 with the K7XX.  I am going to have a 3-way shootout so to speak.  The X2, K7XX and the SRH-1840.  My guess is that the K7XX will win just based on its price to performance ratio.
> 
> *Round 1 begins today when my X2 arrives and goes head to head with the 1840.*




I'm very familiar with the 1840, so please share your thoughts when you do so!


----------



## Stillhart

elimelim said:


> looking for a new headset to replace my 4 year old sharkoon xtatic 5.1 (its basically tritton ax pro rebranded) while the sound cues are great for competitive once you adjust bass, rear, front etc.. it has pretty bad sound quality overall as its cramming multiple speakers into each cup.
> 
> my budget is around 300$ / £200  and it must be an all in one solution headset type. will be used for competitive + music + variety of games.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, there are some nice reviews on the first page of this thread for the A40 and the PC360 (which is the same as the G4ME ONE).  Go read those and decide for yourself.
  
 If neither of those works, I suggest the HD800.


----------



## Toxos

martin vegas said:


> I am doing another gaming build with two gtx980's with three asus rog swift screens for the loft..don't no yet if I am getting the k712 or k812 to go with a asus stx 2 for gaming..i already have a 4k gaming build I just use for bf4 with two 7990s and a 84 inch 4k tv up on the wall with a pioneer susano with 8.2 s81 surround speakers!


 
 I will just sit in my corner over here... not that it is related to console gaming.. but 980ti's are rumored for February release! RUMORED of course... I was going for 980's but I still need to pay off my car haha. Depending on the price of 980ti's, I may jump on those and if they are out in February.


----------



## Change is Good

elimelim said:


> looking for a new headset to replace my 4 year old sharkoon xtatic 5.1 (its basically tritton ax pro rebranded) while the sound cues are great for competitive once you adjust bass, rear, front etc.. it has pretty bad sound quality overall as its cramming multiple speakers into each cup.
> 
> my budget is around 300$ / £200  and it must be an all in one solution headset type. will be used for competitive + music + variety of games.
> 
> ...







stillhart said:


> Well, there are some nice reviews on the first page of this thread for the A40 and the PC360 (which is the same as the G4ME ONE).  Go read those and decide for yourself.
> 
> *If neither of those works, I suggest the HD800.*




Completely ignore that comment, elimelim. Not once did you ask for the "absolute best headphone for gaming." You even mentioned a budget, so such a smart ass comment was not necessary.

Totally love it when people try to be a dik, and fail...

Edit: Please leave the arsehole comments and replies to the professionals, around here (Me)!


----------



## Stillhart

Whoosh!


----------



## Change is Good

^Says the person who ALWAYS takes schiit way over their head...


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> I believe the 360 uses two 3.5mm jacks and the 363d uses USB (built in DAC). You'll want to avoid the USB one for gaming with a mixamp. The one with two jacks works just like any headphone and mic.


 
 Oke, but under specs it says on the Sennheiser website "connector: 2x3.5mm for desktop/laptop pc" and also in the box a 3D USB adaptor. So it does uses two 3.5mm jacks or am I reading something wrong? 
  
 Source http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-pc-363d


----------



## martin vegas

elf-1 said:


> Oke, but under specs it says on the Sennheiser website "connector: 2x3.5mm for desktop/laptop pc" and also in the box a 3D USB adaptor. So it does uses two 3.5mm jacks or am I reading something wrong?
> 
> Source http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-pc-363d


 
 here


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Oke, but under specs it says on the Sennheiser website "connector: 2x3.5mm for desktop/laptop pc" and also in the box a 3D USB adaptor. So it does uses two 3.5mm jacks or am I reading something wrong?
> 
> Source http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-pc-363d


 
  
 It looks like the USB bit isn't attached, it's just a dongle that you plug the 3.5mm things into?


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> It looks like the USB bit isn't attached, it's just a dongle that you plug the 3.5mm things into?


 
 Yeah the headset just has 2 x 3.5mm jack as you can see in the video posted by Martin just above your own post. And then you can choose to attach the USB surround dongle, but that won't work on PS4 I guess? For PS4 just attach it to the Mixamp and then the Mixamp with optical and usb to PS4? 
  
 Soundwise, what do you guys think of the PC 363D, is it a worth buy? The guy on the video calls it an upgraded version of the PC 360 and MLE was positive in his review of the PC 360.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Yeah the headset just has 2 x 3.5mm jack as you can see in the video posted by Martin just above your own post. And then you can choose to attach the USB surround dongle, but that won't work on PS4 I guess? For PS4 just attach it to the Mixamp and then the Mixamp with optical and usb to PS4?
> 
> Soundwise, what do you guys think of the PC 363D, is it a worth buy? The guy on the video calls it an upgraded version of the PC 360 and MLE was positive in his review of the PC 360.


 
 Yeah, Martin likes posting videos, but I'm at work so I can't watch them.  
  
 But yeah, can't use the USB bit on the console.  Save $50 and get the G4ME One (which is also an upgraded version of the PC360) IMO.  You're paying more for the dongle that you'll never use.


----------



## Toxos

Ok so I have pc360s right now and they are fantastic although I am not properly using them to their fullest extent (X7 hopefully will do wonders!) and now I am reeealllyy tempted to get the AKG K7XX. Should I? I kinda want to cuz of how amazing I hear they are and the price and ARGH. Input? A little less than 500 left before hitting 2000


----------



## Stillhart

toxos said:


> Ok so I have pc360s right now and they are fantastic although I am not properly using them to their fullest extent (X7 hopefully will do wonders!) and now I am reeealllyy tempted to get the AKG K7XX. Should I? I kinda want to cuz of how amazing I hear they are and the price and ARGH. Input? A little less than 500 left before hitting 2000


 
  
 Some dude in the comments on Massdrop said he contacted AKG and they said it's based off the K712 with the Annie pads.  Go read the K712 review and see what you think.


----------



## conquerator2

Guys, does anyone know whether the Massdrop K7XX earpads are deeper than the stock K612 earpads, thus more similar to the classic K702 pads?
 Thanks in advance :}


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Guys, does anyone know whether the Massdrop K7XX earpads are deeper than the stock K612 earpads, thus more similar to the classic K702 pads?
> Thanks in advance :}


 
  
 People are guessing it's the "early" Annie pads, before they changed them to be the same as the K712.  I don't know if this helps at all...


----------



## Toxos

stillhart said:


> Some dude in the comments on Massdrop said he contacted AKG and they said it's based off the K712 with the Annie pads.  Go read the K712 review and see what you think.


 
  Interesting. Well I have yet to see anything about the K712 being bad in anyway. I wanted to hold off until I saw some good closed cans for gaming but the AKG K7XX are looking like a steal the more I research. PC360s are great for gaming but seem like not as much fun as the 712s... ok i will stop writing as now I am just thinking out loud on here lol


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> People are guessing it's the "early" Annie pads, before they changed them to be the same as the K712.  I don't know if this helps at all...


 
 Does not, sorry 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I needed to know how they compare to the K612 or K702 pads, I am not familiar with the early K712 ones, the latest ones are the deepest of the bunch.


----------



## Toxos

By the way, I was watching Linus Tech Tips on youtube and he has now talked about the AKGs on his youtube account sooo i think they are going to start selling fast. I am gonna buy them. Whats the worst that could happen? Lol.
  
 Edit: Typo lol and also, I have now bought them so thats one less!


----------



## High Fidelity

With all the hoopla about the AKG K7XX, I'm trying to process all the info and come to a decision. I would really appreciate feedback.
  
 My primary use - or the use that I weigh more heavily - for headphones will be gaming, a combination of competitive fps (COD, Halo), sports games (FIFA), racing games (Forza) and some single player games. I currently have a 2014 Mixamp Pro and Audio Technica AD700. I have had my eye on the Q701 for some time, and was planning on purchasing it at some point. The release of the K7XX has changed things. 
  
 Considering these things would the AKG K7XX be a no-brainer over the Q701? I could always try the Q701 pads to see if I prefer them for competitive gaming over the K7XX pads. Plus the AKG K7XX has a more comfortable headband. 
  
 I will try the AKG + mic with the Mixamp Pro alone, but if I find it lacking power, what DAC/Amp would you guys recommend I pair with the K7XX? I would like to keep the price in the $100 range.


----------



## Evshrug

The AKGs are amazing and great values... You can have headphones a little more technically proficient when you buy Summit-Fi headphones, but even with my STAX I still find that I really enjoy listening to my K612 too.

According to reports, the original Annie pads were less deep and if the KXX are using those then they're probably about as deep as the K612 pads (though memory foam), while K712 pads are juuuust a little bit deeper, like hard-to-see-how-much deeper. On many-hour gaming sessions, sometimes I miss the featherweight AD700, it was easier for me to forget the partially on-ear pads of the AD700 (meant to push/angle your ears against your head) than the slight weight increase of the AKGs (235g or 238g is still really light!), but both were great for me and five hours of gaming... This includes the K612.

If you have a Mixamp already and want more power, you won't find a substantially better DAC that processes virtual surround until you get the X7 which is definitely a higher-grade component than fits in a $100 budget. A few inexpensive options for just an AMP that you can plug into the Mixamp (and thus use the chat balance feature) would be a FiiO E11k or a Fred_Fred_2004 3-channels amp (custom built in an Altoids tin, with a 9v battery, reviewed in head-Fi member ClieOS portable amp roundup). Of the entry-level DACs that process surround sound (wish we could call them gamer DACs, calling them "Mixamps" is like Kleenex, using one brand that's not the best to name an entire product segment), I haven't heard Tritton's processor but all the other gamer DACs sound a little better than a Mixamp... I choose to get by without external chat balance mixing.


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> With all the hoopla about the AKG K7XX, I'm trying to process all the info and come to a decision. I would really appreciate feedback.
> 
> My primary use - or the use that I weigh more heavily - for headphones will be gaming, a combination of competitive fps (COD, Halo), sports games (FIFA), racing games (Forza) and some single player games. I currently have a 2014 Mixamp Pro and Audio Technica AD700. I have had my eye on the Q701 for some time, and was planning on purchasing it at some point. The release of the K7XX has changed things.
> 
> ...


 
  
 IMHO, yes, the K7XX is a no-brainer over the Q701.  Are you looking for a desktop amp or a portable amp?  Pretty much anything in the amp section of the guide will work fine.


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> IMHO, yes, the K7XX is a no-brainer over the Q701.  Are you looking for a desktop amp or a portable amp?  Pretty much anything in the amp section of the guide will work fine.


 
  
 Desktop, as my setup is in one room. The only situation I would need portability is if/when I took my laptop into another room and wanted to listen to music.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> The AKGs are amazing and great values... You can have headphones a little more technically proficient when you buy Summit-Fi headphones, but even with my STAX I still find that I really enjoy listening to my K612 too.
> 
> *According to reports, the original Annie pads were less deep and if the KXX are using those then they're probably about as deep as the K612 pads (though memory foam), while K712 pads are juuuust a little bit deeper, like hard-to-see-how-much deeper.* On many-hour gaming sessions, sometimes I miss the featherweight AD700, it was easier for me to forget the partially on-ear pads of the AD700 (meant to push/angle your ears against your head) than the slight weight increase of the AKGs (235g or 238g is still really light!), but both were great for me and five hours of gaming... This includes the K612.
> 
> If you have a Mixamp already and want more power, you won't find a substantially better DAC that processes virtual surround until you get the X7 which is definitely a higher-grade component than fits in a $100 budget. A few inexpensive options for just an AMP that you can plug into the Mixamp (and thus use the chat balance feature) would be a FiiO E11k or a Fred_Fred_2004 3-channels amp (custom built in an Altoids tin, with a 9v battery, reviewed in head-Fi member ClieOS portable amp roundup). Of the entry-level DACs that process surround sound (wish we could call them gamer DACs, calling them "Mixamps" is like Kleenex, using one brand that's not the best to name an entire product segment), I haven't heard Tritton's processor but all the other gamer DACs sound a little better than a Mixamp... I choose to get by without external chat balance mixing.


 
 Does that mean the K702 pads are deeper than both? I had both the K612 and K702 pads with me and found the K702 substantially deeper and more comfortable.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Does that mean the K702 pads are deeper than both? I had both the K612 and K702 pads with me and found the K702 substantially deeper and more comfortable.




The Q701 (same pads) are angled, I didn't use any measuring instruments but basically the K712 pad height = the top part of the angled pads.


----------



## Evshrug

high fidelity said:


> Desktop, as my setup is in one room. The only situation I would need portability is if/when I took my laptop into another room and wanted to listen to music.




I'm having a hard time thinking of a desktop amp under $100, only a FiiO E9 comes to mind.

I wonder if anyone has done an E11K vs E09K comparison? Reviews rave about the E11K's performance, it's a portable FYI.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I'm having a hard time thinking of a desktop amp under $100, only a FiiO E9 comes to mind.
> 
> I wonder if anyone has done an E11K vs E09K comparison? Reviews rave about the E11K's performance, it's a portable FYI.


 
  
 Schiit Magni comes to mind as well.


----------



## martin vegas

elf-1 said:


> Yeah the headset just has 2 x 3.5mm jack as you can see in the video posted by Martin just above your own post. And then you can choose to attach the USB surround dongle, but that won't work on PS4 I guess? For PS4 just attach it to the Mixamp and then the Mixamp with optical and usb to PS4?
> 
> Soundwise, what do you guys think of the PC 363D, is it a worth buy? The guy on the video calls it an upgraded version of the PC 360 and MLE was positive in his review of the PC 360.


 

 Right I will explain to you what the pc363d are..they are the pc360's with a dongle/headphone amp that plugs into your pcs usb port and gives the headphones dolby headphone..the pc360's haven't got any surround sound just stereo..if you can get the pc360s cheap get them, if not get the newer G4ME ZERO headset..or if you are not bothered about playing bf4 multiplayer and having a mic to talk to friends do what I did and get the AKG545 and plug them straight into your ps4 controller!


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> Yeah, Martin likes posting videos, but I'm at work so I can't watch them.
> 
> But yeah, can't use the USB bit on the console.  Save $50 and get the G4ME One (which is also an upgraded version of the PC360) IMO.  You're paying more for the dongle that you'll never use.


 
 Okay, the PC 363D is a headset that I can get new for 139 euros, while the G4ME One is 209 euros here. Is it worth the price difference/is it an improvement soundwise? 
  
  


martin vegas said:


> Right I will explain to you what the pc363d are..they are the pc360's with a dongle/headphone amp that plugs into your pcs usb port and gives the headphones dolby headphone..the pc360's haven't got any surround sound just stereo..if you can get the pc360s cheap get them, if not get the newer G4ME ZERO headset..or if you are not bothered about playing bf4 multiplayer and having a mic to talk to friends do what I did and get the AKG545 and plug them straight into your ps4 controller!


 
  
 The problem is that the PC360's are 159 euros and I can get the PC 363D new for 139 euros. G4ME Zero is even more expensive with 220 euros and they both are not an improvement over the PC 363D, correct?


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> Okay, the PC 363D is a headset that I can get new for 139 euros, while the G4ME One is 209 euros here. Is it worth the price difference/is it an improvement soundwise?
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that the PC360's are 159 euros and I can get the PC 363D new for 139 euros. G4ME Zero is even more expensive with 220 euros and they both are not an improvement over the PC 363D, correct?


 
 Oh interesting.  The 363D is $50 more than the G4ME One here.  It seems like the 363D is the cheapest of the three and you don't need to use the USB dongle, so it seems to be the obvious choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I call BS on that email. Probably some rep who doesnt know schiit. The main page states the 7XX uses the Annie as a base. Unless the Annie uses the K712 drivers (it was argued heavily that it doesnt), I dont see how the 7XX all the sudden got 712 drivers.


----------



## rudyae86

elf-1 said:


> Okay, the PC 363D is a headset that I can get new for 139 euros, while the G4ME One is 209 euros here. Is it worth the price difference/is it an improvement soundwise?
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that the PC360's are 159 euros and I can get the PC 363D new for 139 euros. G4ME Zero is even more expensive with 220 euros and they both are not an improvement over the PC 363D, correct?


 
  
  
 Just to make it easy, the PC363D seems to be the PC360, i dont know why they changed the name to PC363 other than separating both headphones for "different" purposes. PC363 comes with the USB dongle that gives you 7.1 surround sound. Now lets say you dont use the USB dongle. PC363, PC360 and G4ME ONE are the same headset. Nothing has changed other than the color of its headset. Id say you get the cheapest one that is available to you. Im not sure though if the PC360 has velour pads but i do know the pc363d does have them, and so does the G4ME ONE.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Just when I thought I was free from the Head-Fi bug at last, I caught wind of the AKG K7XX yesterday.
  
 $200 shipped after having auditioned both the K612 and K712, both of which I found comfortable and pleasing, and it has the detachable cable of the higher-end AKGs? I cannot say no to that, and my wallet hates me for it.
  
 Granted, if it's anything like my ModMic 4.0, it'll take MONTHS to arrive, but when it does, I might just have to retire the MA900...


----------



## AxelCloris

namelesspfg said:


> Just when I thought I was free from the Head-Fi bug at last, I caught wind of the AKG K7XX yesterday.
> 
> $200 shipped after having auditioned both the K612 and K712, both of which I found comfortable and pleasing, and it has the detachable cable of the higher-end AKGs? I cannot say no to that, and my wallet hates me for it.
> 
> Granted, if it's anything like my ModMic 4.0, it'll take MONTHS to arrive, but when it does, I might just have to retire the MA900...


 
  
 It should arrive for most US backers before Dec 25th. So it should be a month or less.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HE LIVES!

So initial reaction to the X2... Hmm, no longer need to adjust the headband, though it's a bit clampy.

Soundwise, sounds... a bit weird to me at first. Can't put my finger on it. I'll give it some time, as it's been awhile since I've heard an open headphone that wasn't dark.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> Just when I thought I was free from the Head-Fi bug at last, I caught wind of the AKG K7XX yesterday.
> 
> $200 shipped after having auditioned both the K612 and K712, both of which I found comfortable and pleasing, and it has the detachable cable of the higher-end AKGs? I cannot say no to that, and my wallet hates me for it.
> 
> Granted, if it's anything like my ModMic 4.0, it'll take MONTHS to arrive, but when it does, I might just have to retire the MA900...




Well at least resale value went up on the MA900. Did you hear what I got myself into recently?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHEWwttdfX0[/VIDEO]

Tried to get this out the gate quickly. 


I don't think the X2 will be taking the reigns away from headphones like the 650, DT880, and K712.

It's good sounding, REALLY good, but it isn't perfect. The tuning is great, but technicalities don't quite match the popular mid-fi cans, FWIH. It's mid-fi, but slightly below the classics. For one, the graininess in the treble isn't hard to hear.

I think these will be very popular though. Bass is good, sound is dynamic, clear, and spacious. Once these hit the $250 range, it's gonna be a treat for many.

These are definitely gonna be a strong contender for gamers. Definitely better than the X1, and the bass isn't as loose but still very present.

These are just very initial impressions, but if the K7XX = Annie, I'd say those are better, for sure. But the X2 + Boompro + not hard to drive = more versatile, and I'd make the same choice again.


----------



## rudyae86

looks like this has made me want to purchase the X2 even more!
  
 But I will wait when it drops below the 250. I already got my BoomPro mic yesterday, and it looks small lol but does the job well. Using it right now with the Phillips SPH9500.
  
 Hmmm that AKG K7XX, cant it come to my house any sooner? lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm really enjoying the X2. It sounds great. They have a definite winner.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I admit, I'm still alive, but I just haven't had much reason to come back here since I have just about everything I could ask for when it comes to audio...save for another SR-Lambda and SRM-T1, but that'll have to wait 'til I've got a more stable financial foundation.
  
 The K7XX gave me a reason to came back. I'm hoping it lives up to what I remember of the K612 and K712.
  
 Other than that, I'm more likely to talk displays at the moment, especially since my GDM-FW900 is now dead and I don't think there's anyone left on this side of the country who knows how to fix it. So much for owning the greatest gaming monitor in existence...it's back to the usual 4:3 Trinitrons or holding off for an LCD that doesn't totally suck, I guess.
  
 It's that or me wanting a Wii U immensely now that its version of Smash is out.
  


evshrug said:


> Well at least resale value went up on the MA900. Did you hear what I got myself into recently?


 
  
 The Stax SR-X/Mk3, you mean? Nice find! Hope it didn't cost too much and the pads were in decent shape.
  
 Granted, that's one of the models I haven't heard. My experience is mainly a few flavors of Lambda-series models and the one Gamma I found painfully uncomfortable.
  
 I still have my "beater" Lambda, actually, but when I broke out that old A/V receiver, one of the channels was completely dead. That, and I didn't like having all that bulk on my computer desk. A more compact speaker amp that can power my SRD-7/SB would be nice.


----------



## Liveeight

Hey Guys, 
  
 I would just quickly like some advice on purchasing some audio equipment for movies, music and gaming. I have been looking at the HD 800's and I believe i can get them at a reasonable price. However,  there are two slight concerns i have. 
  
 1. Assuming I obtain a decent amplifier is the sound quality produced by the PS4 high enough that a person will benefit from such high end headphones? (i plan to also use the headphone for the PC, but my main concern is the ps4)
  
 2. What amplifier would you guys recommend which would give me a nice balance when it comes to watching movies, listening to music but also gaming?
   I have been recommended the Asus Xonar Essence One, but im unsure about purchasing an amplifier from Asus. 
  
 Thanks


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> I'm really enjoying the X2. It sounds great. They have a definite winner.


 
  
 I heard they changed the velour material a little on the X2.  Supposedly made it less itchy (not that I had any problem with the X1). 
  
 You notice anything different with the velour?
  
 Ear cups seem about the same depth roominess inside?


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> Calpis, I see you lurking you, you damn legendary pokemon.


 
 Oh hi 
  
 Current status, finally found and bought a Mirage UNI-Theater "sound bar" and had to shift a lot of things on my desk so I haven't had my mstage amp hooked up in over a month. Still have my Pro2900 but the head pad needs to be replaced now that it's completely flattened. Still trying to find a pair of drivers to stick into my spare pair of 15G's. But yeah, mainly speaker duty for the past 6 weeks or so. Other than that just a butt load of anime watching and learning how to play Smash (haven't touched Smash since N64).
  
 Oh yeah, jumped on the K7XX...


----------



## Etha

Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> From this point on, if anyone asks me what the best headphone is for $200, you guys can auto answer for me. The K7XX will be the easy answer, considering it's more than likely an Annie downmarked to a ridiculously affordable price level (by audiphile standards).
> 
> Seriously. Forget the MA900, K612, DT990 Pro. The K7XX for $200 is the one you'll want, IF you want a very balanced sound with some warmth in the bass and mids, and very good soundstage and comfort. You can then just buy some Q701 pads for it if you prefer a more detail focused and even more spacious sound. The only thing that keeps me from it is that it isn't exactly the easiest thing to drive when a mic is attached, which is why I'm still focused on the X2.


 
  
 Hello there!

 First off, thanks for all the reviews! A lot of your time went into these, and they are really helpful!
  
 Now, I have been saving up money for some time now in order to make my first step into "low end" audiophile. I say "low end" because my budget is (was?) 200€ and, in my opinion, my usage of headphones wouldn't justify more than that: I am playing on PC, and don't have enough high quality music, which I mostly listen to at a fairly low volume when I am working anyway. I was initially planning to get an AKG K612 with a SoundBlaster Z, with maybe getting a decent amp later, but now I am also thinking about the K7XX... Both of these would undoubtedly be a few steps above the Superlux HD681 EVO I currently own anyway.
  
 Now here's the deal: I am a competitive gamer. Even if I play by myself, that's how I play... Can't help with that... So knowing that, would you still recommend the K7XX over the K612? But I wouldn't mind a small trade off in competitive gaming if the headphone really is better overall, so do you think the trade off would be worth the extra cash? By the way, after euro conversion, the headphone is only 35€ more than the K612.
 I know you haven't tried these yet, but since they're based on the K702 Annies which you said was one of your favorites, maybe you can help me with that.
  
 Thanks again, and keep up the good work!


----------



## xonar

Hey guys, I just got the K7xx from Massdrop and was wondering if my Mixamp would suffice or if I should get a new amp/dac. Also I play on both PC and PS4.


----------



## Fegefeuer

liveeight said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I would just quickly like some advice on purchasing some audio equipment for movies, music and gaming. I have been looking at the HD 800's and I believe i can get them at a reasonable price. However,  there are two slight concerns i have.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Go for the HD 800. Best soundstage. Huge, deep, tall, razor sharp imaging, very "fast" and goes deep with plenty of impact (depending on the amp). ZxR had very good impact, though bass is less controlled than a V281 but seriously, it doesn't matter with gaming and movies, these headphones are still ahead. We're not talking boomy levels of mid-fi headphones. 
  
 1. Depends on the game. 1st party Sony is mostly the best. Multiplats get better generally though (DICE titles always sounded good, at least in terms of recording quality). I didn't have much problems last gen. A few titles were bad, like Bioshock Infinite + CMSS-3D or Far Cry 3's low res voice audio but 99% of the time there was never any kind of problem with the HD 800.
 Don't worry too much, over time these things get much better since new gen has more ram, storage space etc.
  
  
 2. Wait for the Soundblaster X7. Your PS4 will be limited to AC3 output only for most surround devices unless PS4 finally outputs multichannel audio over USB. Best on PC, still good for PS4 (see AC3 above). Based on my ZxR impressions with the HD 800 this gon b gud.


----------



## Liveeight

Thanks for the advice man, cant wait till the soundblaster comes out and i can set everything up.


----------



## martin vegas

elf-1 said:


> Okay, the PC 363D is a headset that I can get new for 139 euros, while the G4ME One is 209 euros here. Is it worth the price difference/is it an improvement soundwise?
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that the PC360's are 159 euros and I can get the PC 363D new for 139 euros. G4ME Zero is even more expensive with 220 euros and they both are not an improvement over the PC 363D, correct?


 

 Get the pc363d then..you can just unattach the dongle and use them as a normal headset like the pc360's.. 139 euros is a good price Elf, snap them up!


----------



## NameStlr

It double posted


----------



## NameStlr

Hello,
  
 Im looking for a setup for PC gaming. My motherboard has the Realtek® ALC892 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC (Absolute Pitch 192kHz/ 24-bit True BD Lossless Sound). I'm really confused about the whole surround sound thing, so my questions are:
 Amp/Dac:
 1) If i were to plug headphones into an O2 and the O2 into my motherboard sound-card (above) would that result in a good sound-stage/imaging for gaming?
 2) Would the E17/E18 not give me surround sound?
 3) Would the O2 and Odac give surround sound?
  
 Headphones:
 4) Also could someone please do a comparison between the Audio Technica ATH-AD900X and the AKG k612 pro?
 5) I would love a set of cans that work well with music as well as gaming; so out of the AKG k612/Q701 or the Audio Technica ATH-AD900X which would be the best all round can for gaming and Nightwish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZn7k5rZLQ) and Lindsy Sterling music (I believe base adds to a song but i dislike base that drowns out the rest of the music)
  
 Thanks


----------



## Elf-1

martin vegas said:


> Get the pc363d then..you can just unattach the dongle and use them as a normal headset like the pc360's.. 139 euros is a good price Elf, snap them up!


 
 Yeah it is indeed a good price, how can I attach the headset to the Mixamp and PS4? I know the Mixamp goes optical to the PS4. But after that, I'm not quite sure what to do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I heard they changed the velour material a little on the X2.  Supposedly made it less itchy (not that I had any problem with the X1).
> 
> You notice anything different with the velour?
> 
> Ear cups seem about the same depth roominess inside?




Chico!

Hmm, it's been awhile, but i do distinctly remember the X1's pads being a bit rougher and on the itchy side (it didn't bother me most of the time, but it did happen). The X2's pads feel less hairy, and thus less itchy. My memory on this isn't great though, so take that with a grain of salt. the X2 feels good, is all I'm saying.

I remember having problems with the inner cavity size of the x1 towards the end of my time with them (I would literally put a thumb and finger to extend the inner length to fit my ear). I feel the X2's size is a tad bigger (my ears fit with absolutely zero problems), but again, I can't be certain. 

As for length/size, I no longer have to bend the headphone to fit my head. The X2 fit perfectly out of the box, though I did stretch it out a bit due to some strong clamp. I'll say comfort is going to be around an 8.75 for me. I see the X1 has that score, and I should probably change the X1 to more like an 8.5 (small size and smaller ear cavities)..


----------



## Spine

I just ordered the K7XX I have a Yamaha receiver that has silent cinema and have done some researching on how to make it work with the ps4 with a modmic. It seems like it would just be easier to get a astro mixamp but more expensive and worried that the mixamp will not be as good as using the receiver.  Has anyone tried both and if so which method did you prefer?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure the receiver will sound considerably better than the Mixamp, though the surround tech will probably not be as good. I haven't heard Silent cinema, but from my old friends at AVS, they tell me it pales in comparison to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> As for length/size, I no longer have to bend the headphone to fit my head. The X2 fit perfectly out of the box, though I did stretch it out a bit due to some strong clamp. I'll say comfort is going to be around an 8.75 for me. *I see the X1 has that score, and I should probably change the X1 to more like an 8.5 (small size and smaller ear cavities)..*


 
  
 Scores aren't relative.  There's no reason to go update the X1 review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They aren't, but you know damn well people will ask why the x1 has a higher score in comfort if I find the X2 more comfortable. It can't be helped. This is one of those exceptions, considering they're identical in most aspects.


----------



## Fleat

mad lust envy said:


> They aren't, but you know damn well people will ask why the x1 has a higher score in comfort if I find the X2 more comfortable. It can't be helped. This is one of those exceptions, considering they're identical in most aspects.


 
 Thanks for your feedback on the X2's. I have a pair arriving today along with the BoomPro mic and I am itching to get home from work and test them out. Here is what I currently own and will be testing against:
 Headphones [DT-990 250, Sennheiser HD598, Sennheiser HD280 Pro, Creative Aurvana, Astro A50]
 Sources [Soundblaster Z, Fiio e10, Turtle Beach DSS2 on PS4, Moto X 2014 with FLAC, Direct from PS4 controller]


----------



## AxelCloris

HD 700 in the house! Well, in the trunk of my car anyways. I'm currently at work and unless things die tonight I'll be unable to listen to them until I get home. And even then I have a limited setup at work that won't do them much justice. Thankfully though they're supposed to be much more forgiving of low end equipment than the HD 800.
  
 I will definitely try to get some PC gaming in tonight and maybe some console gaming in on Friday (I work tomorrow).


----------



## Stillhart

Looking forward to your reports.  I gotta wait until Monday for mine.


----------



## Toxos

I will just sit here and cry about how I missed that deal


----------



## Stillhart

toxos said:


> I will just sit here and cry about how I missed that deal


 
 You'll enjoy your K7XX, don't worry.  :-D
  
 EDIT - Adding a picture because I'm sick of looking at that guy playing with his nipples.
  
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Toxos

stillhart said:


> You'll enjoy your K7XX, don't worry.  :-D
> 
> EDIT - Adding a picture because I'm sick of looking at that guy playing with his nipples.
> 
> ...


 
 Ahahahaha Thank you... I keep opening this thread up at work and that picture was making me uncomfortable. And I do hope so!


----------



## Change is Good

Cry babies!


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> The K7XX gave me a reason to came back. I'm hoping it lives up to what I remember of the K612 and K712.
> 
> Other than that, I'm more likely to talk displays at the moment...
> 
> ...



Well, people are very excited for the KXX, though I am not sure how it will stack up between the current lineup. Since I own both a K612 and K712, I know it will at least be very good, I'm just not sure which it will be most like (it's spec'd to have the same tonal tuning as an Annie).

I've been really happy with just a good computer monitor LCD from Asus. I got an IPS so it would also be good for photo editing (and I've done a "lot" of that since getting it :/ ), but reviewers point out that TN panels have greatly improved and there's more crossover tech. I like Tom's Hardware reviews, they just had a monitor roundup recently mid-November.

The Stax was more than the secondhand prices in 2011, but the priceerformance is still insanely good regardless. The pads are pretty minty, though there isn't much cushion to them in general (they do angle and pivot nicely, and are quite light, so that helps!). They're currently living in the basement environment where only an Xbox 360 (and my iPod) live. Which leads me to...

I'm Really looking forward to the upcoming Soundblaster X7. The speaker taps on that will make the Stax much more convenient and get at least some form of surround happening, also be awesome for my AKGs, mac, iDevices, etc.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Cry babies!


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Elf-1

How can I attach the PC363D (with 2x3.5mm jacks) to the Mixamp and PS4? I know the Mixamp goes optical to the PS4. But after that, I'm not quite sure what to do.


----------



## Stillhart

elf-1 said:


> How can I attach the PC363D (with 2x3.5mm jacks) to the Mixamp and PS4? I know the Mixamp goes optical to the PS4. But after that, I'm not quite sure what to do.


 
 PS4 -> optical and USB to Mixamp -> Y cable that combines headphone and mic into one 4-pole connector -> headphone and mic
  
 I believe the Mixamp comes with the Y cable.  If not, they're like $5 on Amazon.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Headset-headsets-separate-headphone-microphone/dp/B004SP0WAQ


----------



## Elf-1

stillhart said:


> PS4 -> optical and USB to Mixamp -> Y cable that combines headphone and mic into one 4-pole connector -> headphone and mic
> 
> I believe the Mixamp comes with the Y cable.  If not, they're like $5 on Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Headset-headsets-separate-headphone-microphone/dp/B004SP0WAQ


 
 Ah thanks, didn't know about the Y cable.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, after a couple hours with the X2, I must say I'm having mixed feelings. When it comes to what I'm looking for in an open headphone, the HP200 is winning, so far. Air, separation, detail; all are better on the HP200.
  
 I even compared it to the SRH1540, since it has a similar tone, and even then it fell flat.
  
 While the X2 seems like it could be a great all rounder, it's just not cutting it, for me. I'll give it a couple days before making a final decision....


----------



## shuto77

Hi-
Has anyone used the Nad Viso HP50 for gaming? A few of us have asked on the HP50 threads, but to no avail. 

I just sold my Over Ear Momentum so I could grab something with a bigger soundstage and I'm trying to determine if the NADs will do it, or if I have to go back to open cans. I preferred my Sennheiser HD598 for gaming, but like the isolation of closed cans better. 

Thanks!


----------



## draven5494

change is good said:


> Well, after a couple hours with the X2, I must say I'm having mixed feelings. When it comes to what I'm looking for in an open headphone, the HP200 is winning, so far. Air, separation, detail; all are better on the HP200.
> 
> I even compared it to the SRH1540, since it has a similar tone, and even then it fell flat.
> 
> While the X2 seems like it could be a great all rounder, it's just not cutting it, for me. I'll give it a couple days before making a final decision....




I am having the same feeling about my X2. There is just something about it. I was listening to X2, going from it to my SRH-1840s and every time I felt the 1840s had more air. I was jotting down notes and a few words I wrote down about the X2s were : "warm, fuzzy, boomy..." Now, I still feel the X2s have a nice soundstage. It just seems to me that they are so warm and the bass is a bit boomy, so this makes them sound a bit closed in. 

I read Baycode's review and he mentioned his pair got better with some burn-in but I'm just not sure if they will improve enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because the 1840 does have moire air. The X2 is fuller sounding. Fuller sounding headphones will never have more air than thinner sounding headphones like the 1840.

The X2 was off sounding to me s well when I first heard them. A few hours later, I adjusted, and boy, it's a brilliant headphone. You have to give it time. As always, always hear a headphone EXCLUSIVELY for at least a few days to a week. Constant back and forth with headphones is never a good idea, when a headphone is new to you. You have to let your ears adjust.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> That's because the 1840 does have moire air. The X2 is fuller sounding. Fuller sounding headphones will never have more air than thinner sounding headphones like the 1840.
> 
> The X2 was off sounding to me s well when I first heard them. A few hours later, I adjusted, and boy, it's a brilliant headphone. You have to give it time. As always, always hear a headphone EXCLUSIVELY for at least a few days to a week. Constant back and forth with headphones is never a good idea, when a headphone is new to you. You have to let your ears adjust.


 
 Gotta agree with this.  The HD650 has been growing on me steadily for days.  At this rate, my poor HE-4's are going to go up for sale...


----------



## Evshrug

^you've got me imagining a sad pair of headphones on the street curb, with a cardboard sign asking for a good home.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> That's because the 1840 does have moire air. The X2 is fuller sounding. Fuller sounding headphones will never have more air than thinner sounding headphones like the 1840.
> 
> The X2 was off sounding to me s well when I first heard them. A few hours later, I adjusted, and boy, it's a brilliant headphone. You have to give it time. As always, always hear a headphone EXCLUSIVELY for at least a few days to a week. Constant back and forth with headphones is never a good idea, when a headphone is new to you. You have to let your ears adjust.




That's just it, the fullness and lack of air is what I'm not liking. For my preference in an open headphone, it isn't hitting the right notes. That's not to say this isn't a great headphone, however, because it actually is.

Trust me, I know how to approach a new headphone. I was just expecting a different sound signature; one that was more detailed and open sounding.

I can say that if I had to chose only one headphone, the X2 would probably be it. It does everything very well. 

I, unfortunately for my pockets, need different headphones for different things. The X2 just doesn't seem it will fit any of them.

Too early to tell, for sure, though. These are just early impressions.


----------



## Qkzz

Hi i am going to change my headset, i have the Sennheiser pc360 at the moment, they are quite old and the mic does not work anymore.
 I would like some help. i am looking for some with a mic, i was wonderin about the pc363D or astro A40 but if u guys recommend something else would be great.
 Oh and what mixamp would you recomend.
 Sorry i manly use them for shooting games such as Counter Strike Global Ofensive, Call of Dutty.....
  
 Thanks


----------



## rudyae86

qkzz said:


> Hi i am going to change my headset, i have the Sennheiser pc360 at the moment, they are quite old and the mic does not work anymore.
> I would like some help. i am looking for some with a mic, i was wonderin about the pc363D or astro A40 but if u guys recommend something else would be great.
> Oh and what mixamp would you recomend.
> Sorry i manly use them for shooting games such as Counter Strike Global Ofensive, Call of Dutty.....
> ...


 
 PC363D is the PC360....the only difference that the PC363D comes with a usb dongle which gives it Virtual Surround sound. But it can only be used with a PC.


----------



## Etha

etha said:


> Hello there!
> 
> First off, thanks for all the reviews! A lot of your time went into these, and they are really helpful!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, seems I missed the first batch, so I will have more time to think about it.
  
 Though if anyone could answer my question, that would be great.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get the K7XX over the K612. Your patience till February will pay off.


----------



## NameStlr

Hey,
 If i were to get the "Creative Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 USB Sound Card" and the K7XX would that be good for sound whoring? I know no one has tired them yet but i'm more worried about driving them with the sound-card


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just got the Schiit Vali shipped to me on loan.

First thing I noticed, was.... HOLY MICROPHONICS BATMAN. I mean, i KNEW before it arrived that it's a tad bit microphonic. Just brushing the Vali with your fingers will cause some ringing for a few minutes. Word of advice; DO NOT TOUCH THE VALI OTHER THAN ADJUSTING THE VOLUME.

Just want to say that it sounds SO beautiful, even with the low impedance X2. Something magical about tubes. I'm beginning to understand why people love them. I still prefer SS for the worry free use, but considering the life of the Vali's tubes are basically way too long to worry about it (10,000-20,000 hours), i figured it'd at least be worth looking into.

Just based off early impressions, I can EASILY say that I prefer over the Magni which I felt was a tad bit too dry for my taste. The Vali just sounds...natural.

I'll have to A/b between the E17 and the Vali to see just how different it is, but so far, the Vali sounds sublime. Even the microphonics are easily overlooked when hearing the Vali.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm looking at the Vali as a stop gap for my endgame amp. Already listened to it with the Sennheiser and was amazed at the price/performance. I wish it was easier to handle with that ringing issue. Don't know about the Valhalla 2 but that one's the other stop-gap option.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ever thought of the Project Polaris? that's the one I truly want.

Anyways, comparing to the e17's internal amp, i can hear a slight difference, for sure. The E17 sounds flatter. Like not really imparting a signature. The Vali definitely adds a bit of euphony and flavor into the sound. Just enough to hear.

Also noticed the Vali adds a little bit of background noise to the X2. Very negligible, but it's there compared to the E17 which adds nothing. Either way, doesn't bother me, as I'm used to much more noise off the Mixamp.

I'm betting it's due to how low impedance and sensitive the x2 is. I'm sure 60ohm+ would be pretty silent.


----------



## draven5494

change is good said:


> That's just it, the fullness and lack of air is what I'm not liking. For my preference in an open headphone, it isn't hitting the right notes. That's not to say this isn't a great headphone, however, because it actually is.
> 
> Trust me, I know how to approach a new headphone. I was just expecting a different sound signature; one that was more detailed and open sounding.
> 
> ...




My sentiments as well. 

I'm still reserving my final judgement until they have more hours on them or until the K7XX arrives.


----------



## BifePlays

I'm looking for a headphone for gaming with a nice soundstage, good immersion (fun) and good confort for 8hrs use. I was thinking about the *Philips Fidelio X1*, as my budget is 300$. Any other ideas? What you think about this headphone?


----------



## crocandy

First of all Happy Thanksgiving weekend to everybody from little old me in the UK. 

I looked at the set up on the first page but wanted to ask an astro mixamp set up question. 

I want to achieve sound from the ps4 to my headphones some of the time but mostly I want the sound to still come out of my Pioneer av receiver. 

Am I right thinking it will be a quick swap in the ps4 settings to change audio from hdmi to optical. The bit I'm stuck with is how to connect the headphones to the mixamp. 

I'm after the X2s and would use the boompro for a mic. Do I just run the wire from the boompro into headphone socket of the mixamp?


----------



## Evinety

I'm looking for a headset (indifferent to open or closed). I've come up with a list based on reviews and what's been mentioned in this thread. What would you suggest is 1. the best quality headset and 2. which is the best bang-for-buck. If you have other suggestions I am open to them (preferably under $160~).
  
 Turtle Beach EarForce Z300
 Turtle Beach EarForce Z60 
 Sennheiser PC 232D 
 Sennheiser PC 333D 
 Kingston HyperX Cloud 
 Audio-Technica ATH-770COM


----------



## rudyae86

Best budget headset is the kingston hyperx cloud. Have not had a chance to listen to them but reviews indicate thats its very good. PC350 SE is also good or pc360.


----------



## conquerator2

Hey guys, This is OT but,
 Could anyone willing to act as a proxy for us international buyers in the K7XX Massdrop deal please shoot me a PM?
 I'd like to snatch one, eventually and I'd like to know the kind souls who'd be willing to make that possible for us 'US outsiders', now that the deal is no more for us....
 Thanks and cheers :]


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Hey guys, This is OT but,
> Could anyone willing to act as a proxy for us international buyers in the K7XX Massdrop deal please shoot me a PM?
> I'd like to snatch one, eventually and I'd like to know the kind souls who'd be willing to make that possible for us 'US outsiders', now that the deal is no more for us....
> Thanks and cheers :]



Are you talking about for the next drop?


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Are you talking about for the next drop?


 
 Yep, the next drop


----------



## rudyae86

it already is the next drop lol
  
 well so far about 2200 have been sold and the drop ends in 4 days...I doubt they are going to reach those 4000 in 4 days. Some have actually pulled out of the drop because of this no international shipping.


----------



## Stillhart

Anyone thinking about getting an Xbox One, Microsoft Store is selling a refurb with Kinect and 3 games for $329.


----------



## Qkzz

Hi what mixamp would you guys recommend for gaming?
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mixamp 2011 version (the one without the EQ settings).

As for the person who asked for a fun, immersive, quality headphone with comfort for 8hrs, just get the X2. Its solid. If you dont plan to use a mic, the K7XX from massdrop for 200 is definitely going to be something I wholeheartedly recommend. With those two headphones, the 200-300 range is very much covered for open headphones, imho.

Yes I havent heard the K7XX, but all signs point to it sounding like the Annie or K712, which are among my top faves in the 350+ range, and considering its 200 dollars, is an absolute no brainer.


----------



## bavinck

How about the he400i? Anyone have experience gaming and/or movies on that? As opposed to the x2 that is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard the 400i yet. I'm sure I'd love it, but I feel that the 400 with shure 1540 pads would be more ideal for stuff like movies and fun gaming. I hear quite a few people being disappointed with the 400i's bass.To put it into perspective, Ifeel the X2's bass is quite close to the 400 in presence (obviously not in the sub bass, though the X2 has plenty of energy down to 40hz). I dont think having less bass impact than that is ideal for my taste.

Not to say I wouldnt enjoy the 400i. I enjoy all manner of headphones, even ones with polite bass like the T70.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Just got the Schiit Vali shipped to me on loan.
> 
> First thing I noticed, was.... HOLY MICROPHONICS BATMAN. I mean, i KNEW before it arrived that it's a tad bit microphonic. Just brushing the Vali with your fingers will cause some ringing for a few minutes. Word of advice; DO NOT TOUCH THE VALI OTHER THAN ADJUSTING THE VOLUME.
> 
> ...




Just saying, my fellow Head-Fi'er @bunnynamedfrank also got a Vali, I got to hear it too and it sounded way close to my tube amp that was 2x the price (not quite as quiet or soundstage depth). I had an Amperex tube (the famous Bugle Boy) which had noticible microphonics and after a few months I just was happier to use my Voskhod, and BNF's Vali recently broke or something. I think normally you'll be fine, but if you need repairs you have to pay shipping.

I feel like Creative's E3 and E5 will be viable alternatives to FiiO's E17, the E5 has an optical input too (for stereo) but when you have it connected to a PC it does SBX surround. The E3 loses the optical input, but still has most of the other benefits. Creative stuff on Black Friday sale right now.





crocandy said:


> First of all Happy Thanksgiving weekend to everybody from little old me in the UK.
> 
> I looked at the set up on the first page but wanted to ask an astro mixamp set up question.
> 
> ...




Thanks, happy Thanksgiving to you too, just be happy and appreciate the things in life  I love this holiday, because it's about sharing and the spirit of building bridges, and no matter a person's faith I can wholeheartedly wish them a happy holiday earnestly and it'll be taken at face value. And even though you're in the UK, I'd like to extend a "thank you!" for being a part of the community 

When you choose optical as the primary output, audio is still simultaneously sent over HDMI too, so that solves your Pioneer receiver question. You don't even have to adjust settings.

The BoomPro would plug into the Mixamp, just have the USB plugged into the PS4 and the console will label the Mixamp as a "USB MICROPHONE" while also sending it game audio over optical 

Overall, easy questions and no worries mate


----------



## AxelCloris

I think the 400i is a great headphone for gaming. It doesn't have the largest soundstage but it handles positional queues decently. Performing the grill mod on them improves soundstage a small amount and increases separation which helps with imaging. The somewhat tamed bass (next to the 400) actually helps in competitive gaming. It's definitely a good buy for gaming if you're looking for planars.
  
 After a night with the HD 700 I will say that I absolutely adore Hiromi through them (running out of my GO SE) and they perform well in games where positional queues are nearly non-existent. Hoping to get some time tomorrow to test with more gaming. So far I haven't run into any fatigue in the treble like I did in the past, which simply means the music I've been playing has either been at a low enough volume where I didn't notice or didn't play a lot in that frequency range. And that comfort... oh man that comfort...


----------



## wilflare

been a while since I posted here.
 was hoping to see a deal on the Antlion Modmics :/ guess not
  
 I'm very tempted to get the PlayStation Gold Headset - anyone got that and has a review/impression? - especially since it's on sale now at Amazon.com


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> been a while since I posted here.
> was hoping to see a deal on the Antlion Modmics :/ guess not
> 
> I'm very tempted to get the PlayStation Gold Headset - anyone got that and has a review/impression? - especially since it's on sale now at Amazon.com


 
  
 You can save a few bucks on the ModMic at Massdrop, 4 hours left.


----------



## wilflare

axelcloris said:


> You can save a few bucks on the ModMic at Massdrop, 4 hours left.


 
  
 thanks! do the Muted or Muteless affect the quality in anyway (or is this just a matter of preference now)


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> thanks! do the Muted or Muteless affect the quality in anyway (or is this just a matter of preference now)


 
  
 Preference. If you don't need a mute you can save a few bucks. I can assure you that ALL of the people who gamed with me about 2 weeks ago wished I had a mute on my mic.


----------



## wilflare

axelcloris said:


> Preference. If you don't need a mute you can save a few bucks. I can assure you that ALL of the people who gamed with me about 2 weeks ago wished I had a mute on my mic.


 
  
 thanks! bought the one with mute and also ordered extra clasps


----------



## AxelCloris

wilflare said:


> thanks! bought the one with mute and also ordered extra clasps


 
  
 Happy to help. And a tip, if it helps at all, you can braid the ModMic cable and headphone cable together. I did that with my Q701 when I owned them.


----------



## wilflare

axelcloris said:


> Happy to help. And a tip, if it helps at all, you can braid the ModMic cable and headphone cable together. I did that with my Q701 when I owned them.


 
 I'll look into that - guess I can say bye to my Boompro as well


----------



## benbenkr

Creative Aurvana Live! (gen 1) is $50 on Amazon now, I don't think there's a better $50 closed headphone out there. Just saying.


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> been a while since I posted here.
> was hoping to see a deal on the Antlion Modmics :/ guess not
> 
> I'm very tempted to get the PlayStation Gold Headset - anyone got that and has a review/impression? - especially since it's on sale now at Amazon.com



Gold headset is fine. Lots of value for the money. Easy and convenient. Super uncomfortable after about 2 hours, which pretty much ruins then completely.


----------



## wilflare

Senn 598 is now $99.99 at Amazon.com
  
 lol why do I feel like buying even when I have a Philips Fidelio X1


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

mad lust envy said:


> Just got the Schiit Vali shipped to me on loan.
> 
> First thing I noticed, was.... HOLY MICROPHONICS BATMAN. I mean, i KNEW before it arrived that it's a tad bit microphonic. Just brushing the Vali with your fingers will cause some ringing for a few minutes. Word of advice; DO NOT TOUCH THE VALI OTHER THAN ADJUSTING THE VOLUME.
> 
> ...




I use the vali with q701s and mixamp pro it's amazing for playing competitive COD


----------



## wilflare

and gosh. the new Mixamp Pro 2014 is $79.90 lol
  
 is it really just a reskin of the Mixamp Pro 2013? - can't find any impressions online


----------



## martin vegas

We have got black Friday in England now..i have never seen black Friday before only in the usa and Canada a day after thanks giving..it just shows you how much impact social media has on the world, you never know we might even get thanks giving in the uk in the future!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## AxelCloris

HyperX Cloud for $60.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JJNQG98/
  
 If that isn't a killer deal then I don't know what is.


----------



## vercify

Lol, I might have you beat on the best deal today, Axel. 
  
 After two weeks of solid debate between the Fidelio X1 and the X2 I can proudly say I just got a new pair of X1s for $180 on this morning's Amazon Lightning deal, which felt was too good to pass up. I am very excited to try these out both for gaming and listening. While the X2s seem to have fixed everything "wrong" with the X1s I think I made the right choice. Both ear cups are still removable, just not as easily on the X1s. Also, I am in love with the color scheme of the X1s, the all black on the X2s just wasn't doing it for me, lol. Saving $120 certainly makes the shortcomings seem less significant! 
  
 I am thinking of picking up a Fiio E11 to drive the X1s (I heard the extra juice helps when a mic is being used, as well as just helping them sound better overall) along with the V-Moda Boom mic and a new aux cable to replace the high impedance stock cable. If the V-Moda mic doesn't end up working I will pick up a simple clip-on or something.


----------



## AxelCloris

vercify said:


> Lol, I might have you beat on the best deal today, Axel.
> 
> After two weeks of solid debate between the Fidelio X1 and the X2 I can proudly say I just got a new pair of X1s for $180 on this morning's Amazon Lightning deal, which felt was too good to pass up. I am very excited to try these out both for gaming and listening. While the X2s seem to have fixed everything "wrong" with the X1s I think I made the right choice. Both ear cups are still removable, just not as easily on the X1s. Also, I am in love with the color scheme of the X1s, the all black on the X2s just wasn't doing it for me, lol. Saving $120 certainly makes the shortcomings seem less significant!
> 
> I am thinking of picking up a Fiio E11 to drive the X1s (I heard the extra juice helps when a mic is being used, as well as just helping them sound better overall) along with the V-Moda Boom mic and a new aux cable to replace the high impedance stock cable. If the V-Moda mic doesn't end up working I will pick up a simple clip-on or something.


 
  
 The X1 is a good headphone, and the $180 Amazon lighting deal was a very nice price. But if it were my money I'd have purchased the HD598 for $100 and HyperX Cloud for $60 and called it a day. But that's just me, of course.


----------



## vercify

axelcloris said:


> The X1 is a good headphone, and the $180 Amazon lighting deal was a very nice price. But if it were my money I'd have purchased the HD598 for $100 and HyperX Cloud for $60 and called it a day. But that's just me, of course.


 
  
 I was too late for the HD 598  If I had seen that deal earlier I would literally have bought both lmao
  
 I don't know anything about the HyperX, what is the allure with it?


----------



## AxelCloris

It's a very nice headset, especially for the price. It's comfortable, built by a reputable company (QPAD), and has great sound with a boom mic built in from the start. It's one heck of a gaming headset. If I needed a headset I'd be all over that deal right now but thankfully I don't. So far my HD 700 are serving me quite well for gaming. And after the amount of money I've spent so far the past couple of weeks I could use the time to replenish my wallet's contents.


----------



## vercify

axelcloris said:


> It's a very nice headset, especially for the price. It's comfortable, built by a reputable company (QPAD), and has great sound with a boom mic built in from the start. It's one heck of a gaming headset. If I needed a headset I'd be all over that deal right now but thankfully I don't. So far my HD 700 are serving me quite well for gaming. And after the amount of money I've spent so far the past couple of weeks I could use the time to replenish my wallet's contents.


 

 Nice, actually now that I think about it some of the old SC2 guys I used to watch used those HyperX headphones!


----------



## martin vegas

axelcloris said:


> It's a very nice headset, especially for the price. It's comfortable, built by a reputable company (QPAD), and has great sound with a boom mic built in from the start. It's one heck of a gaming headset. If I needed a headset I'd be all over that deal right now but thankfully I don't. So far my HD 700 are serving me quite well for gaming. And after the amount of money I've spent so far the past couple of weeks I could use the time to replenish my wallet's contents.


 

 Would you choose the hd700 over the AKG712 for gaming?


----------



## kenshinhimura

wilflare said:


> and gosh. the new Mixamp Pro 2014 is $79.90 lol
> 
> is it really just a reskin of the Mixamp Pro 2013? - can't find any impressions online


 

 where is it $80?


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Even at this late hour if anyone here happens to be military or dependents, you may find it worth your while to check your aafes exchange electronics section for a soundblaster zxr card... May want to post this in Nameless's thread. I strolled in around noon when I figured it was safe and everything would be swiped. I wasn't there for any black Friday stuff. But low and behold, a couple of them were just chilling on the shelf for $150 no tax. I guess not many people go in thrre for computer components because their selection is mediocre. But they do happen to carry some popular sound and video cards. Schiit just got real.


----------



## dnLL

So I've read about everything on the PC 363D on this thread and on the Web but I'm still confused about what I should do.
  
 I have a Rampage IV Formula motherboard and after some reading, it seems like the built-in SupremeFX III audio chip on that motherboard is complete garbage (or REALLY similar to a normal Realtek onboard chip, plus the EMI insulation).
  
 With that said, I'm used to really cheap gaming headsets marketing towards gamers, like the Corsair Vengence 1500 and the Plantronics Gamecom 780. I know that all of these are actually bad overall, but they do offer some kind of 5.1 virtual emulation via their integrated USB soundcard and I have to say that it definitely makes a difference when watching movies. I have to also consider that I'm not an audiophile at all and that I use my computer mainly for gaming, YouTube, a little bit of music and some movies (that I usually end up watching on my computers where I have a good pair of headphones, not a headset).
  
 With all that said, I'm looking for a good headset for my computer, something that would give me some better positional audio since I'm mostly playing FPS. The only real good headset according to the front page reviews is the Sennheiser PC 360. Now, the 363D is the same but with an addin USB chip.
  
 I would like to know more about that USB soundcard. I do have kind of a better soundcard with my ROG motherboard, although audiophiles will say it's garbage anyway. I'm not an audiophile. I just want good positional audio. Is the included soundcard with the 363D good? Is it worth it? I don't see any website carrying the 360 anymore, but they do have the G4ME One and G4ME Zero that don't come with any USB soundcard for the same price (around 200$ CAD, it's Black Friday right now).
  
 For my needs, do I really need to spend 50$+ on a dedicated soundcard with a motherboard that is supposed to come with already better than the usual integrated chips? Will it really make a noticeable difference for me?
  
 Switching from a cheap headset like the Corsair Vengence 1500 to the 363D with the built-in USB soundcard: will I notice the difference? Would you say that the difference will be as big if I then switch to a dedicated audio card or external amp?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## rudyae86

Just going to keep it short. The usb that the 363d comes with...its not really a great dac/dsp, at least from what I have read.

Will you notice a difference? Maybe, just because the pc363D is a better headset.

But honestly, if you paid attention to the deals, you could have bought an hd598 for 100 and a sound blaster z for 65 (which it currently is going for as we speak) and could have called it a day. You would gett a better package going that route instead of the pc363d. The usb dongle that most headsets come with arent really great to be honest and tend to fail after a few months, that is if you even use it.


----------



## dnLL

rudyae86 said:


> Just going to keep it short. The usb that the 363d comes with...its not really a great dac/dsp, at least from what I have read.
> 
> Will you notice a difference? Maybe, just because the pc363D is a better headset.
> 
> But honestly, if you paid attention to the deals, you could have bought an hd598 for 100 and a sound blaster z for 65 (which it currently is going for as we speak) and could have called it a day. You would gett a better package going that route instead of the pc363d. The usb dongle that most headsets come with arent really great to be honest and tend to fail after a few months, that is if you even use it.




I did pay attention. I'm buying from either NCIX or Newegg (Canada). There are still plenty of deals and there will still be next week, the week after and after Christmas too. 

I'm also a tech junky and really like to run optimal setups and don't want to buy an audio card I will change after a few months. Also, I did appreciate the 5.1 emulation from my cheap headsets when watching movies. Would I still get this with a 60$ soundcard? I read on this thread that the only way to get 5.1 was actually through the digital output of the soundcard and with a really good external amp. 

Also, the HD598 doesn't come with a mic. I'm not a fan of modding. 

Thanks for your help.


----------



## martin vegas

dnll said:


> So I've read about everything on the PC 363D on this thread and on the Web but I'm still confused about what I should do.
> 
> I have a Rampage IV Formula motherboard and after some reading, it seems like the built-in SupremeFX III audio chip on that motherboard is complete garbage (or REALLY similar to a normal Realtek onboard chip, plus the EMI insulation).
> 
> ...


 
 The dongle that comes with the pc363d sounds like the astro mix amp..it gives the headset dolby headphone surround, it doesn't need any external power it uses the usb for power..it's a no brainer!


----------



## wilflare

kenshinhimura said:


> where is it $80?


 
 Amazon.com


----------



## dnLL

martin vegas said:


> The dongle that comes with the pc363d sounds like the astro mix amp..it gives the headset dolby headphone surround, it doesn't need any external power it uses the usb for power..it's a no brainer!


 
  
 From rudyae86: "Just going to keep it short. The usb that the 363d comes with...its not really a great dac/dsp, at least from what I have read."
  
 Hard to figure out if it's good or not after reading these 2 posts!
  
 If you tell me that I'll see a huuuge difference from a 60$ discounted sound card, I will go that route instead with whatever stereo headset is the best for the price.
  
 I kind of want the best quality/price ratio at the end of the day and be able to get better positional audio than my actual setup with either my Corsair Vengence 1500 or Plantronics Gamecom 780 (that shouldn't be really hard to beat lol).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X1 for $180 is a fantastic choice for those who want a bassy, open headphone. I still think the X2 is more worthwhile, however.


----------



## Evshrug

dnll said:


> From rudyae86: "Just going to keep it short. The usb that the 363d comes with...its not really a great dac/dsp, at least from what I have read."
> 
> Hard to figure out if it's good or not after reading these 2 posts!
> 
> ...




I understand your predicament.
The corsair used to be one of the highest rated PC headsets in the entry level price bracket, so basically I'd say if you want an upgrade don't get any headset lesser than a Sennheiser PC360 (which is like an HD 555 with a mic, you pay quite a bit for a mic there) or a Beyerdynamic MMX300 (a DT770 with mic, same story as the Senn). If your current "level" is fine, it seems the Hypercloud X is now the best entry-level price headset, but it'll be only a little better.

I haven't heard the PC363D dongle, but I have owned the SoundBlaster Z and know that has enough component quality to impress you, and it's safe to consider it'll be better sounding than the bundled dongle once you consider the manufacturer's cost in selecting the quality of it's DAC and amp. So, quality is an easy recommendAtion for the Creative component. That said, if you just want to spend minimal, then the dongle DOES come with Dolby Headphone and it would be better than motherboard audio, so it wins on purely paying less but still getting surround.

I'd normally say make your own choice, but right now I'd say you'll be happier with a creative Soundblaster Z or Omni AND both of those are on sale, so just grab one of those! Ernest recommendation, from satisfied experience


----------



## rudyae86

dnll said:


> I did pay attention. I'm buying from either NCIX or Newegg (Canada). There are still plenty of deals and there will still be next week, the week after and after Christmas too.
> 
> I'm also a tech junky and really like to run optimal setups and don't want to buy an audio card I will change after a few months. Also, I did appreciate the 5.1 emulation from my cheap headsets when watching movies. Would I still get this with a 60$ soundcard? I read on this thread that the only way to get 5.1 was actually through the digital output of the soundcard and with a really good external amp.
> 
> ...


 
 well the sound blaster z does 5.1 speakers set up and i think 7.1 virtual surround sound with headphone. It already comes with a 600ohm internal amp as well. it also comes with input and output optical to hook up or chain a seperate DAC/AMP while still getting the virtual surround to your headphones.
  
 edit:
  
 I guess he explained it better lol
 But yeah, if budget is a concern and you want better audio than from your motherboard, the dongle will be sufficient enough. I should have read that you had a budget. I was at work, so sometimes Ill just skim through instead of reading everything.
  
 But if you can shell out 60 dollars for a dedicated sound card, you will be impressed. I cant wait to get my sound blaster z
  
 dammit, i used the long shipping method to get 1 dollar credit on amazon prime lol
  
 edit 2:
  
 Also, there was some reviews on amazon regarding the usb dongle to fail. But i guess thats techonlogy and anything that can happen, will happen.
  
 as long as you are careful and dont randomly hit the dongle with some brisk random movements behind your case, you should be fine.
  
 Also, Not sure if you like Dolby Headphone more or SBX?
  
 EVShrug and myself tend to like SBX more than Dolby.....but you may be different


----------



## dnLL

SBX or Dolby Headphone? I don't even know the difference. I quickly Google'd but can't find really any references.
  
 No chance to hit anything "behind" my case since I have a Silverstone FT02b, so that would be on top of my case, and since there is a cover there... it won't happen!
  
 Also, if that's the SBX, it's back-ordered: http://www.ncix.com/detail/creative-soundblaster-z-pcie-sound-a5-83552.htm
  
 I see there is (also back-ordered) more expensive edition, the SBZxr. Here again, is there real-world difference when using a good pair of headphones and playing shooters?
  
 I'm on a budget, I mean, I think we are always on some kind of budget. I don't have unlimited funds to spend on a pair of headphones, but I'm willing to pay 60$ more if it really makes a difference and assuming that I will have that hardware for a really long time. If the SBX is the way to go, I'm going to find one on sale soon (I'm still rocking that cheap Corsair Vengence 1500 for now, I can wait a few weeks). I don't think PCI-Express is disappearing anytime soon. But I also read earlier that dedicated sound cards under 200$ were not better than onboard soundcards. It's that discrepancy from a post to another that makes it really difficult for me. I know a lot about computer hardware, SSDs, keyboards, mice... enough that I know exactly what I am buying, why I am buying it and not something cheaper or more expansive and what are the benefits of it. I'm new here, so maybe I'm just in the wrong thread (Google likes this thread) but I didn't find any sticky'ed post to really get started.
  
 Also, another thing I don't like on the headsets I got in the past is the material used on the earpads tends to attract dust (that's the case on both my Plantronics and Corsair headsets). I saw that the 363D/G4ME One come with what they call "velvet". I have no idea if it's better but it does look better on the pictures. Does it attract dust? I was thinking about going with a headset with leather earpads for that reason alone, but if velvet is fine, I will consider these too.


----------



## kenshinhimura

wilflare said:


> Amazon.com


 

 thanks.


----------



## dnLL

People on Newegg and Amazon are complaining a lot about the drivers of the SB Z.
 It's $55 on Newegg btw (80$ for us Canadians, which is still 33% off).
  
 Does it emulate virtual surround sound with headphones? Also, why are people complaining so bad about the drivers (I mean the software, not the internal drivers in the headphones lol)? It seems like the onboard audio has to be disabled. And I have no idea why they are giving a mic with this lol.
  
 I don't know about SBX vs Dolby Surround, honestly. How could I know? The headsets I got in the past are pretty much plug and play.
  
 I'm a little bit affraid about the earpads too, the ones I have on my Vengence and Gamecom headsets do attract a lot of dust. Sennheiser says theirs is made of "velvet", it does look better on the pictures, is it?
  
 I can spend a little bit more since the hardware is gonna last, it's not like PCIe is going to disappear anytime soon. But I want to be able to notice the difference. I can't say anything bad about the USB chips on the headsets I got since there is no annoying background noise (both the headphones and mic are ok), but I can't say it has the best positional audio either (I have a hard time figuring out if the noise is behind me or in front of me for example in most games).
  
 (sorry if double post, I posted a link in another post and it needs to be reviewed, not sure it will get through so..)


----------



## Evshrug

Mad doesn't control the forum, BUT his first post on this thread has tons of reviews and info. There are also YouTube videos posted there (and my thread in my signature) which you play with your normal stereo headphones (and everything on your computer set to stereo as normal) because they have samples of the surround "baked-in," so you get to hear it. The real thing sounds more distinct than a compressed YouTube sample, but it goes a long way to giving you a good idea.

This thread's really popular in Google searches because it's been visited for like 4 years (look at the number of pages), and Mad keeps adding headphone reviews from time-to-time. The PC guy is Nameless though (also linked in the first post), but his favourite is Creative's Titanium HD (out of production), I like the current stuff better because it's less sharp on the treble, Mad prefers Dolby Headphone... It's kinda up to personal taste about what processing is better. However, DACs can be cheap or good, amps can be cheap or good, motherboard audio has improved but a Z or Omni are better still. I'm Gonna get back to watching my movie, but last thing I'll add is that the deals are hot and return periods are extended for Christmas anyway. Low risk, judge for yourself, but positional audio truely makes a difference.


----------



## chicolom

With all the K7XX action going on, does anyone want my custom AKG cable for *$10 shipped?* 
  
 PM me.... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  

 It's long, and a bit stiff (no innuendos intended!) but it's really durable.  
  
 It's 16' long with Belden shielded 22 AWG twisted cable with extra tough sleeving and a TA3FX mini XLR and Neutrik stereo 1/4" connector with silver solder.  Same as this one.


----------



## AxelCloris

martin vegas said:


> Would you choose the hd700 over the AKG712 for gaming?


 
  
 If it's only for gaming, I'd actually get the K7xx. If it's just gaming both the 700 and 712 will be overkill in my book. For music listening and gaming, that's a tough choice but so far I'd end up with the HD 700.


----------



## Yethal

Something that bothers me on this thread. So we're willing to buy very expensive headphones that can go from 100$ to even 500$ then buy expensive amps for them which can go from 100$ to 500$ so we can connect them to the hissy external soundcards outputting horrible, lossy Dolby Digital signal. Anybody else finds this slightly ridiculous?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Something that bothers me on this thread. So we're willing to buy very expensive headphones that can go from 100$ to even 500$ then buy expensive amps for them which can go from 100$ to 500$ so we can connect them to the hissy external soundcards outputting horrible, lossy Dolby Digital signal. Anybody else finds this slightly ridiculous?




Give us a feasible alternative then. Oh, that's right, there isn't any real alternatives, outside of discontinued full size, heavy as hell receivers, and ridiculously expensive options like the Beyerdynamic Headzone.

Until the X7 comes out, console gamers are extremely limited in what they can use especially if we want chat mixing. The X7 is also too expensive for most people. All we need is a Mixamp device with some audiophile chops, without the extra stuff like speaker outputs. I'd love one for $200.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Something that bothers me on this thread. So we're willing to buy very expensive headphones that can go from 100$ to even 500$ then buy expensive amps for them which can go from 100$ to 500$ so we can connect them to the hissy external soundcards outputting horrible, lossy Dolby Digital signal. Anybody else finds this slightly ridiculous?
> ...


 
 I know there aren't any. That post was not meant to be offensive in any way. It just bothers me how limited the sound options are when it comes to the DSP. No matter has great an amp or headphones there are they'll still be limited by horrible DACs and Dolby Digital signal.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I know there aren't any. That post was not meant to be offensive in any way. It just bothers me how limited the sound options are when it comes to the DSP. No matter has great an amp or headphones there are they'll still be limited by horrible DACs and Dolby Digital signal.


 
 Personally I think the reason is rather obvious:  the number of people who know about virtual surround for gaming is pretty small.  The number of those who can afford to buy audiophile-grade headphones for that purposes is a small fraction of those.  The number of people who CHOOSE to do so is an even smaller fraction.  
  
 It's simply a matter of supply and demand.  People aren't going to be producing tons of options here because it doesn't sell in enough quantity to warrant it.
  
 I still think Fiio should make one, maybe based off the E17, but apparently they're not into that idea.  Maybe Massdrop can get something going?


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> Personally I think the reason is rather obvious:  the number of people who know about virtual surround for gaming is pretty small.  The number of those who can afford to buy audiophile-grade headphones for that purposes is a small fraction of those.  The number of people who CHOOSE to do so is an even smaller fraction.
> 
> It's simply a matter of supply and demand.  People aren't going to be producing tons of options here because it doesn't sell in enough quantity to warrant it.
> 
> I still think Fiio should make one, maybe based off the E17, but apparently they're not into that idea.  Maybe Massdrop can get something going?


 
Creative Sound Blaster X7 review: An audio-processing ... 




_I don't know if anyones read this review yet?_


----------



## Evshrug

martin vegas said:


> [COLOR=1A0DAB]Creative Sound Blaster X7 review: An audio-processing ...[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was JUST coming here to post that link! See?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2851524/sound-blaster-x7-review-audiophile-performance-without-the-audiophile-price.html

But anyway, excited to see something out in the wild, I'm curled up in bed after a very long Black Friday and will be reading this. I hope some will still be interested to read a Head-Fi review and opinion about this.

Speaking on opinions and the upcoming X7, pretty much the first upscale headphone surround processor, I'd like everyone's opinion on a topic of where headphone audio gear should go (click me).


----------



## RRod

I'd love if someone like Fiio or Schiit would come up with, basically, the poor man's Smyth. Takes USB, HDMI or S/PDIF in, passes through video and, optionally, stereo signals (to work with OpenAL HRTF), decodes everything including Dolby/DTS lossless, applies Dolby Headphone and/or a selectable set of HRTFs** and sends a stereo signal out via RCA and S/PDIF (so it can passthrough into another DAC if someone so desires).
  
 Add in whatever microphone tech is necessary and corner the gaming audio market with a combo pack with a nice amp. It seems like the height of PC audio, at least, was back around 2000, before Creative bought out Aureal. I remember coming back to gaming thinking "this stuff still isn't standard issue?"
  
 ** see http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/index.html


----------



## bavinck

Is the x7 going to be able to mix in chat audio for console gamers?


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> [COLOR=1A0DAB]Creative Sound Blaster X7 review: An audio-processing ...[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not sure what point you're trying to make. Creative is already in this market, so they're not a particularly good example of a new company entering the market. Also the X7 is really expensive so it's not going to do a good job of increasing the market size.


----------



## Evshrug

rrod said:


> I'd love if someone like Fiio or Schiit would come up with, basically, the poor man's Smyth. Takes USB, HDMI or S/PDIF in, passes through video and, optionally, stereo signals (to work with OpenAL HRTF), decodes everything including Dolby/DTS lossless, applies Dolby Headphone and/or a selectable set of HRTFs** and sends a stereo signal out via RCA and S/PDIF (so it can passthrough into another DAC if someone so desires).
> 
> Add in whatever headphone tech is necessary and corner the gaming audio market with a combo pack with a nice amp. It seems like the height of PC audio, at least, was back around 2000, before Creative bought out Aureal. I remember coming back to gaming thinking "this stuff still isn't standard issue?"
> 
> ** see http://recherche.ircam.fr/equipes/salles/listen/index.html







stillhart said:


> Not sure what point you're trying to make. Creative is already in this market, so they're not a particularly good example of a new company entering the market. Also the X7 is really expensive so it's not going to do a good job of increasing the market size.




I was trying to set up a post to discuss this very thing, care to weigh in and respond?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/120#post_11086319


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I was trying to set up a post to discuss this very thing, care to weigh in and respond?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/120#post_11086319


 
  
 Sure, it's done.


----------



## rudyae86

Ill probably buy the x7 next year, since right now, I have already wasted mucho more money than what I was supposed to. I just wonder if anyone else will bring out a similar device which can be a contender against the x7.....?

I do like the headphone stand that it comes with. Beats having to pay 50 dollars for a really nice looking one lol


----------



## Evshrug

^Or a banana stand from Amazon. I haven't yet heard of a comparable mid-range device like the X7 yet, hopefully it gains some attention and thus competition though.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> ^Or a banana stand from Amazon. I haven't yet heard of a comparable mid-range device like the X7 yet, hopefully it gains some attention and thus competition though.


----------



## Mad Max

Mad Lust Envy, see what you think of M50's soundstaging with HD280 earpads after you've tried them, just remember to rip out the grey tuning foam rings on the backs of the pads before putting them on M50 or the pads will muffle the sound:
  

  
 I think they're an improvement in many ways apart from soundstaging.
  
  
  
 A little off-topic, to PC gamers with windows 7 or 8: have any of you compared the Xbox One and Xbox360 controllers?  Is the Xbox One controller an upgrade?
 I'm unable to try the Xbox One controller myself as I'm still on an aging Vista machine for now.


----------



## Stillhart

mad max said:


> Mad Lust Envy, see what you think of M50's soundstaging with HD280 earpads after you've tried them, just remember to rip out the grey tuning foam rings on the backs of the pads before putting them on M50 or the pads will muffle the sound:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 An improvement in what way?  I don't have a 360 controller, but I have an Xbox One and I use the controller on the PC when needed.  The one big thing, of course, is that it doesn't work wirelessly right now.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> > A little off-topic, to PC gamers with windows 7 or 8: have any of you compared the Xbox One and Xbox360 controllers?  Is the Xbox One controller an upgrade?
> > I'm unable to try the Xbox One controller myself as I'm still on an aging Vista machine for now.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I use an Xbox One controller daily. A massive improvement. The triggers and thumbsticks, and the dpad. The entire controller is cranked up to eleven.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


>


 
 Off topic but....
  
 That made me laugh and made me realize I need to finish watching this show lol


----------



## High Fidelity

Currently I'm awaiting shipment of my K7XX in December. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 In the meantime I'm looking for a ~$150 desktop amp to pair with my Mixamp Pro 2014. Desktop over portable because the amp will be used at home exclusively, although I've seen some portable amps, e.g. FiiO E12, mentioned that work well as desktop amps. Some of the amps I've looked into are the FiiO E09K, JDSLABS O2, Schiit Magni/Vali.
  
 Whichever amp I get I want it to be powerful enough, within my budget of course, so that it doesn't reduce the soundstage of the K7XX. A large soundstage and positioning accuracy are key for me with competitive games. I'd also prefer it to be neutral. I don't want added warmth, for example. 
  
 Are there any key differences between the amps I've mentioned? Are there any other amps you guys would recommend? 
  
 Finally, should I get a DAC, considering I have a Mixamp? What would a DAC add?


----------



## Change is Good

high fidelity said:


> Currently I'm awaiting shipment of my K7XX in December.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You can probably find a used pre-2013 Matrix M-Stage for around that price. You may even get lucky and find one of the newer versions for that price. Check out this thread for info about the amp...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/475618/matrix-m-stage-amp-review-simple-cheap-and-excellent
  
 Then, check the classifieds to maybe find one for a great price.


----------



## Evshrug

high fidelity said:


> Finally, should I get a DAC, considering I have a Mixamp? What would a DAC add?




A DAC is a Digital to Analogue Converter... converts digital on/off signals into pulses of power which move headphone/speaker drivers with the right speed and force to make audible sound. All audio needs to be made analogue at some point to make speakers work. Vinyl records were analogue throughout the audio chain, but audio from cd/DVD discs and computers are digital. A better DAC has a cleaner analogue output and a higher resolution digital conversion.

The Mixamp includes a DAC, you cannot use a different DAC if you're already using a mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Vali makes things a bit fuller, and the byproduct is a smaller sounding soundstage (though it may have a more intimate soundstage in general, haven't tested it much yet), so don't get the Vali if you wanna eek out every smidgen of soundstage. Like Change said, I have heard the MStage being very good with soundstaging.

I don't regularly hear much of a difference between amps and it's effects on soundstaging, at least out of the ones I have used.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, after a couple days using the X2, _exclusively_, I must say it really is a wonderful all-round headphone. It does everything very well, but doesn't actually excel in any particular area. I really think Philips went the safe route, and only did minor tuning to what was already a favored X1 sound.
  
 So far, unfortunately, I am finding it hard to warrant the purchase and keep it around. The SRH1540 does bass better, and the HP200 does clarity better. Would it be odd for me to keep the X2 as a bridge between the two?  
  
 Not to mention, the K7XX will be here in a couple weeks. I guess I'll just wait and make a decision, then, since I have until Jan. 31st to return the X2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the X2 is a headphone for people that want only ONE headphone for all purposes. It fits that description, all too well.

But yeah, if you have other headphones excelling in other areas, the X2 isn't going to beat them.

The X2 is an all rounder through and through. Adept in all manner of things, but master of none.


----------



## Evshrug

Also, apparently, the X7 is available for Preorder on creative's website now, release date Dec 15th.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's my birthday!

HINT HINT NUDGE WINK


TELL CREATIVE I WILL REVIEW IT FOR THEM AS A SPECIAL BIRTHDAY EXTRAVAGANZA


----------



## Evshrug

Well...
I was seriously hoping to review it myself, I have video reviews of all the other processors I've owned done and you were more the headphone (plus mixamp, damn you for making that a Kleenex or Clorox or PingPong-type brand  ) guy, BUT Creative hasn't replied to me in over a week, so maybe you'll have more luck with your "Contributor" status and Google search results popularity... I do think it merits it's own review separate from this headphone thread (but you can link to it!). Good Luck getting a sample unit... I want one to keep anyway.


----------



## crocandy

Hopefully final question from me. 

I'm torn between the X2s and the Q701. Use would be gaming 80% and music/movies 20%. 

I currently own a mixamp pro but do not own any other kind of headphone amp. I need a mic and like the easy of the boompro. 

However all that aside the overall sound is my no1 driving factor and would buy amp/mod mic if necessary. 

So I guess if you could only chose one of the two which one would it be? Also looking at my needs could you help guide my choice?

Price in the UK is only a few £ different so not a major factor. 

Thanks

Being a total dumbass I forgot I bought a Ray Samuels The Hornet a few years ago so I assume I could add this into the mix. I haven't used it for ages since changing my ipod and moving. Still got the old ipod connectors.

Edited for spelling.


----------



## conquerator2

I wonder just how much the X2 differs from X1.
There is less bass but is there actually less treble and more midrange?
Is the soundstage a bit smaller as some say?

MLE, you're a bad influence! :rolleyes:


----------



## Monsterzero

Can someone kindly help:

 I have in hand- Mixamp pro 2013+Beyer T1 headphones+Woo Audio Wa2 amp+ModMic+PS4

 I get GREAT sound from my PS4 thru this set up but I cant get the Mod Mic to work...I bought a Y splitter to plug into HP jack but still not working

 Can anyone tell me what im doing wrong?


----------



## Stillhart

monsterzero said:


> Can someone kindly help:
> 
> I have in hand- Mixamp pro 2013+Beyer T1 headphones+Woo Audio Wa2 amp+ModMic+PS4
> 
> ...


 
  
 Plug it in like the diagram in the guide.
  
 PS4 > Optical > Mixamp > Y cable to split mic+ headphones
  
 then
  
 headphone port > amp > headphone
 mic port > modmic
  
 If you're doing this and it's not working, you might have the wrong Y cable.  It should have 3 black stripes on the male side.


----------



## pebuzerA

then this headset that works on my DSS2 ?


----------



## geogga

Philips Fidelio X2 vs HD650 vs H600?
 Tough choices...saw the 650 for 315 and 600 for 260...help..


----------



## Evshrug

I'll make a video to show you guys how to set up an X7... Once it arrives mid-December.


----------



## Monsterzero

stillhart said:


> Plug it in like the diagram in the guide.
> 
> PS4 > Optical > Mixamp > Y cable to split mic+ headphones
> 
> ...


 

 can you point me to the right Y cable...thats exactly how I have it setup,but not working


----------



## Evshrug

monsterzero said:


> can you point me to the right Y cable...thats exactly how I have it setup,but not working



This is the one I got like 10 months ago:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004SP0WAQ


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> This is the one I got like 10 months ago:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004SP0WAQ


 
 Yup, that's the one I got too.  Amazon says I bought it on March 7th.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've purchased that same Y cable twice now. Great little guy.


----------



## Monsterzero

evshrug said:


> This is the one I got like 10 months ago:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004SP0WAQ


 

 thanks very much,just ordered...now maybe I can do the Raid in Destiny w/o running around and not knowing what im doing


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> I'll make a video to show you guys how to set up an X7... Once it arrives mid-December.


 
  
 How about making A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW IN FULL HD


----------



## KonekoFire (Jun 1, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## kcazbarach

what can anyone say about the 2014 astro mixamp?
  
 it's on sale today for $80 on amazon (cyber monday I'm guessing)


----------



## wilflare

monsterzero said:


> can you point me to the right Y cable...thats exactly how I have it setup,but not working


 
 doesn't the Mixamp come with a Y-Cable?


----------



## pebuzerA

sennheiser x320 work with Turtle beach EAR FORCE DSS2 ?


----------



## Yethal

wilflare said:


> monsterzero said:
> 
> 
> > can you point me to the right Y cable...thats exactly how I have it setup,but not working
> ...


 
 It does but it's easy to break (very thin wires)


konekofire said:


> Anyone know how the Sennheiser HD558 (with and without the foam mod) compare to the PC360 and HD598 as far as sound stage? I know they have the same drivers, but how does the sound stage sound? It would be a big help for me to know


 
 Afaik the 558 and the 598 are using the same drivers so after the foam mod they sound very much alike. I also recommend doing the soundstage mod I posted about few pages ago (mainly for more circular soundstage)
  
 Also, I have the same Startech adapter, great little guy this one.


----------



## Toxos

evshrug said:


> I'll make a video to show you guys how to set up an X7... Once it arrives mid-December.


 
 Oh man.. I am fighting my brain on whether I should get it or not... No HDMI is not a big deal for me but it is still $400... Gah... Need more reviews before I buy!


----------



## Yethal

toxos said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > I'll make a video to show you guys how to set up an X7... Once it arrives mid-December.
> ...


 
 Do what I'm planning to do and sell all the redundant gear which X7 will replace, if it lives up to the expectations of course.


----------



## Toxos

yethal said:


> Do what I'm planning to do and sell all the redundant gear which X7 will replace, if it lives up to the expectations of course.


 
 Well the only gear that I had close to it was an asus u3 that I yanked out with my headphones and broke the USB connection (kinda funny now that I think about it). Have been waiting for the x7 to use with my ps4 too. Been using that mono headset thing that comes with it for the past few months and I hate it. Just debating whether or not to pre-order so I can get it by Christmas cuz I am not sure how much more poor sound I can take. I just want to know it is worth the $400 before I spend it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> Do what I'm planning to do and sell all the redundant gear which X7 will replace, if it lives up to the expectations of course.


 
  
 yep, Soundblaster ZxR + Astro Mixamp 5.8+PC 360D. :>


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> How about making A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW IN FULL HD


 
  
 Binaural with surround please!


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> fegefeuer said:
> 
> 
> > How about making A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW IN FULL HD
> ...


 
 And side by side comparison with Beyerdynamic Headzone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

And a teaser about Serious Opamp Rolling right after the 5 min credits


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> How about making A COMPREHENSIVE REVIEW IN FULL HD



OK ALRIGHT geez...
I finally have an HD capable camera.
Might make an extra vid just about wiring setups.




toxos said:


> Oh man.. I am fighting my brain on whether I should get it or not... No HDMI is not a big deal for me but it is still $400... Gah... Need more reviews before I buy!



Well, there's one incoming.





fegefeuer said:


> And a teaser about Serious Opamp Rolling right after the 5 min credits



Define "serious." I'm not a very serious man.


----------



## Toxos

evshrug said:


> OK ALRIGHT geez...
> I finally have an HD capable camera.
> Might make an extra vid just about wiring setups.
> Well, there's one incoming.
> Define "serious." I'm not a very serious man.


 
 IS IT READY YET?!


----------



## KonekoFire (Jun 1, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## Evshrug

toxos said:


> IS IT READY YET?!



[video]http://gif.co/o7qm.gif[/video]


----------



## Stillhart

That's... loud.


----------



## CptJeff

Been playing around with my X2s and X1s for a few days now. I texted my wife and told her I was in love before the 2nd song was over on my initial X2 listening. That dark sound is gone from the X1s and the bass is still very present especially compared to the AKG 712 which I didn't hate...but I didn't love either.
  
 Everything feels more clear on the X2s but it doesn't sound obnoxiously flat like the AKG 712. I didn't feel anything special about the 712 besides the lightweight construction and color scheme which was beautiful IMO. 
  
 After a few days of comparing the X1s and 2s, the X1s bass has more impact and carries longer. I guess that's the boomy and loose terms commonly used to describe the X1s. The X2s do not hit as hard but they have much more impact than the 712s.
  
 I won't have enough time to test them both out for gaming but I remember loving the X1s during Alien Isolation. 
  
 Anyone with the X2s think the backstep in bass will hurt single player immersion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because the bass is still quite present and potent when it needs to be. The X1's bass is one-notish and loose in comparison. This may be good for pure bassheads, but for those with a taste for bass and quality, will definitely prefer the X2 instead.

I have been using the x2 for gaming, and I love their immersion, especially since it doesn't cover up details as much as the X1 did at times of strong bass.

The X2 still isn't super tight in bass (though definitely tighter than the X1), and has some lingering decay. While that sounds bad for those who want super tight bass, I actually PREFER some decay, as it leaves it's mark and presence instead of disappearing too quickly. It adds some immersion in comparison to headphones with super quick bass.

I'll call it harmonic resonance.


----------



## CptJeff

mad lust envy said:


> No, because the bass is still quite present and potent when it needs to be. The X1's bass is one-notish and loose in comparison. This may be good for pure bassheads, but for those with a taste for bass and quality, will definitely prefer the X2 instead.
> 
> I have been using the x2 for gaming, and I love their immersion, especially since it doesn't cover up details as much as the X1 did at times of strong bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I made my wife test out the 712s and the X1s a few weeks back and she much preferred the X1s. But after about 40 minutes of a few songs back to back with the X1s and X2s she preferred the X2s. That's saying alot since they ran my $70 more and she knew they did. I was expecting the inevitable "which ones were the cheaper ones?".
  
 But she couldn't pick up what I meant by darker sounding. I am not an audiophile in anyway but that is one term I immediately recognize with the X1s. Why do they sound dark? It's not veiled...just....dark.
  
 The X2s lost alot of that at least to my ears. Anyone else feel that way?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's because they're is a pretty notice tilt towards the bottom end with the X1. The bass and lower mids are emphasized over everything else, which is why it's dark. That is how all dark headphones are. Bass and lower mids first. The X2's bass to mid transition is not as tilted towards the bass, which is why it isn't dark sounding. Most of the bass frequencies on the X2 are on the level of the mids and treble with the X2, giving it a more neutral tonality. The X1's mids and treble never manages to meet the bass line.


----------



## CptJeff

mad lust envy said:


> It's because they're is a pretty notice tilt towards the bottom end with the X1. The bass and lower mids are emphasized over everything else, which is why it's dark. That is how all dark headphones are. Bass and lower mids first. The X2's bass to mid transition is not as tilted towards the bass, which is why it isn't dark sounding. Most of the bass frequencies on the X2 are on the level of the mids and treble with the X2, giving it a more neutral tonality. The X1's mids and treble never manages to meet the bass line.


 
 Ok, glad I am not crazy then. Thanks for the help! It's embarrassing the amount of time I spent reading your reviews over and over and tossing and turning on which phones to try. I am glad I took your X1 recommendation because they are amazing IMO. And they led me to the X2s which I think is exactly what I want. So thank you!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To add, there is nearly double the decibel differences between bass and mids on the X1 compared to the X2. There is about 10+db difference between the strongest bass point on the X1, and it's midrange, while the X2's generally falls between 2-5db at it's worst.

Also going by Tyll's graphs, the X1 and X2 are very similar after a certain point in the upper mids, which is why they sound alike up top, other than the 8khz notch, and stronger peak at 10khz. So if you play a lot of music that puts a lot of importance up there, they can sound quite similar.


Db = loudness, so when bass is quite a bit louder than certain ranges in the mids... it can warm up the sound considerably.

The X1 and X2 share a LOT in common, but it's biggest difference is between the meat of the sound between the bass up to just over 1khz. The X1 slopes down towards 1khz, while the X2 stays linear. That is where the biggest change occured, and what gives them their different tonality. That and the 8khz pit on the X2 which shaves off ear fatigue, and more treble after 10khz, which gives it more air.


----------



## CptJeff

mad lust envy said:


> To add, there is nearly double the decibel differences between bass and mids on the X1 compared to the X2. There is about 10+db difference between the strongest bass point on the X1, and it's midrange, while the X2's generally falls between 2-5db at it's worst.
> 
> Also going by Tyll's graphs, the X1 and X2 are very similar after a certain point in the upper mids, which is why they sound alike up top, other than the 8khz notch, and stronger peak at 10khz. So if you play a lot of music that puts a lot of importance up there, they can sound quite similar.
> 
> ...


 
 I guess that explains how I feel about them. I don't know if they are perfect but to my untrained ears they sound great. I probably should keep it this way because I don't want to catch the sickness. I don't make the money to support it.


----------



## burritoboy9984

I'm terrible at writing, so this is going to be more rambling than a review.
  
 Don't remember who suggested it a few pages back, but the Philips SHP-9500 is pretty solid for anyone looking for entry level gaming phones. I would equate them to a budget version of the X1, I was looking for some headphones for a friend and came across these on ebay. I'm not sure we could have done any better for $76. I have had AD700's, PC360's and X1's prior to these.
  
 The earpads, like the X1's are not replaceable. The ear cups are shallower than the X1's, so your ears will touch the insides similar the AD700's. This personally never bothered me, but I know some people will be bothered by this. The ear cups are however bigger in diameter than the X1's, so people with large ears shouldn't have any issues there. The headband is adjustable so people with large heads shouldn't have difficulties expanding it for their head.
  
 Sound wise, I would say it falls somewhere in the middle of the dark X1's and the bright AD700's. Positioning/soundstage is among the best I have heard. I would say it falls in between the AD700's and the PC360's. Even during heavy gun fights I had no issues with directionality, whereas with the X1's, the bass will take over and cloud positioning at times.
  
 It also comes with a detachable 3.5mm cable that connects under the left ear cup. This makes it a perfect candidate for a Vmoda Boompro. For people with a budget of around $100 for a headset, I'm not sure what combo might have better value.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like how it looks too.


----------



## KonekoFire (Jun 1, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## Stillhart

I just updated my signature and realized that I need to sell some headphones...


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> I just updated my signature and realized that I need to sell some headphones...


 
  
 Headphone Nerd!
  
 What's this Winamp Headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Winamp is only the best music player. I like it simple. Mine is as barebones as it gets for Winamp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've been using it for over 15 years until I switched to MediaMonkey as my library got bigger and bigger. 
  
 Only use it now when I need some atmospheric over the top trailer music when storming Baghdad with my Crusaders in MTW2 or killing the Pope in Rome.


----------



## andeh83

Hi guys, amazing thread, some really good info on here, wondered if you guys could give me some advice...
  
 I'm after something for PC gaming, mostly casual with a bit of 'competitive' FPS and movies, not so much music. From all the info I've read, I'm leaning towards the 712's as they sound a good all-rounder that should last (unlike my Logi G930's). The X2's have also piqued my interest, as they seem to be regarded as an 'improvement' to the X1's, but I can't find much in the way of comparison to the 712's (sorry if it's been asked before, still trawling through previous posts!).
  
 As these will be for gaming I'm in need of a mic. Really like the idea of the V-Moda BoomPro, but know it's not compatible with the AKG's (and sadly sounds like Zombie X's work has been shelved 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





). That said, I shouldn't be letting that sway me as it's the sound output I'm interested in and know there's the Modmic available if I go down the AKG route, just the solution isn't quite as elegant.
  
 Only have onboard sound atm, intending to get an internal card (e.g. SB Z, Asus Xonar, but still need to do research). If a dedicated amp is needed I doubt I can stretch it just yet, but provided the 'phones are  usable w/out, I'll pick one up a bit further down the line. I'd rather build up a final solution incrementally rather than finding myself 6-12mths down the line lusting after something 'better'.
  
 So, have any of you guys had experiences with the X2 v K712 for gaming?
  
 Also, any advice on what I need to be looking for on a sound card (e.g. one with an amp), or recommendations, would also be appreciated.


----------



## chicolom

mad lust envy said:


> Winamp is only the best music player. I like it simple. Mine is as barebones as it gets for Winamp.





fegefeuer said:


> I've been using it for over 15 years until I switched to MediaMonkey as my library got bigger and bigger.




Check out MusicBee. My favorite.

Clean and simple, but really powerful as well, if you need it.

getmusicbee.com/


----------



## calpis

Still using foobar2k for the past 10+ years after I bailed on winamp for being too bloated.

  
 Also, Pro2900 has pretty good bass for an open headphone... Just sayin'...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bloated? Its bloated for like 2 minutes when you get it, and disable everything unnecessary. Lol.


----------



## hi2chris

So I have been extremely lucky. Got a Tritton ax 720 (7.1 version) for $50. Now I am able to also get a mixamp 5.8 (no headphones just the 2 boxes and cables) for $50. 

Should I get the mixamp 5.8? And sell the trittons? These are going to be used with a AKG K7xx. Will either one drive it better then the other?

Thank you


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> Bloated? Its bloated for like 2 minutes when you get it, and disable everything unnecessary. Lol.


 
 It was somewhere around winamp 4 or 5, it was terrible.


----------



## Yethal

konekofire said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Afaik the 558 and the 598 are using the same drivers so after the foam mod they sound very much alike. I also recommend doing the soundstage mod I posted about few pages ago (mainly for more circular soundstage)
> ...


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-10-15-2014-beyerdynamic-t51i-added/26925#post_11047006
  
 Do both mods.
  
 Unfortunately I didn't take any photos of the work in progress but it's actually pretty simple. If You decide to do the mod just hit me up with a PM and I'll do my best to help out with the process.


----------



## rudyae86

burritoboy9984 said:


> I'm terrible at writing, so this is going to be more rambling than a review.
> 
> Don't remember who suggested it a few pages back, but the Philips SHP-9500 is pretty solid for anyone looking for entry level gaming phones. I would equate them to a budget version of the X1, I was looking for some headphones for a friend and came across these on ebay. I'm not sure we could have done any better for $76. I have had AD700's, PC360's and X1's prior to these.
> 
> ...




I suggested the SHP9500 . Pretty much what ypu described is what the sound is all about, although it has been said that you need at least 100 hrs of burn in to actually get the true sound signature. Im currently using them with the boom pro and so far it worka well, doesnt pick up any sound since these 9500 are open. They do leak alot of sound, alot more than the x1 to be honest. The ear cups swivel a bit, so you can adjust them a bit if u dont want them to hit the ears a bit. I got them for 86 bucks and seem to be worth it but im afraid once the akg k7xx get here, they are going to be put away lol. I have my 99.99 hd598 already lol but have not used them, but i probably will since they look nice and MLE recommends them for Competitive FPS. Having installed my sound blaster z on sunday, i think im going to enjoy the rest of this month, enjoying all these headphones. 

Also, is there a replacement cable for the hd598? I dont like using adapters that terminate the 1/4 to 1/8. Im always afraid of breaking something since it sticks out so much


----------



## KonekoFire (Jun 1, 2018)

[deleted]


----------



## hi2chris

hi2chris said:


> So I have been extremely lucky. Got a Tritton ax 720 (7.1 version) for $50. Now I am able to also get a mixamp 5.8 (no headphones just the 2 boxes and cables) for $50.
> 
> Should I get the mixamp 5.8? And sell the trittons? These are going to be used with a AKG K7xx. Will either one drive it better then the other?
> 
> Thank you


 

 Just did some more reading and seems i won't be able to get the mixup 5.8 to work with the PS4 anyway since the required cable is discontinued  
 anyone know of a workaround?


----------



## AxelCloris

hi2chris said:


> Just did some more reading and seems i won't be able to get the mixup 5.8 to work with the PS4 anyway since the required cable is discontinued
> anyone know of a workaround?


 
  
 I was under the impression that you could use a USB adapter on the PS4 and then a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable from the adapter to the Mixamp 5.8 base. I can't confirm this, though, as I use the official Astro USB cable.


----------



## kayan

Hey MLE! I took your advice and picked up the HD650 to replace my Annie's. I just got them yesterday, but honestly can't tell a huge difference in quality for my music. Seems to have a tad bit more bass than the Annies though. Can't decide which is more comfortable yet though.

Am I going to have to spend a lot more than 400 for a much better sound for music and gaming? The HD650s were 409, and have 30 day return through Amazon. What should I do?


----------



## Stillhart

kayan said:


> Hey MLE! I took your advice and picked up the HD650 to replace my Annie's. I just got them yesterday, but honestly can't tell a huge difference in quality for my music. Seems to have a tad bit more bass than the Annies though. Can't decide which is more comfortable yet though.
> 
> Am I going to have to spend a lot more than 400 for a much better sound for music and gaming? The HD650s were 409, and have 30 day return through Amazon. What should I do?


 
 What amp and such are you using?


----------



## Elf-1

I am looking for a Mixamp in Holland and they are quite hard to find, now someone on the internet said to me he has a Mixamp 2011/2012 for sale, now I have some questions
  
 1) In the reviews MLE talks about Mixamp Pro 2013, Mixamp Pro and the 5.8 ones, The 2011/2012 is the normal Mixamp Pro right?
  
 2) Which Mixamp do you think is the best? 
  
 3) Is the Mixamp 2011/2012 compatible with the PS4? 
  
 4) The Mixamp 2011/2012 doesn't come with EQ Modes I guess, does this make a whole lot of difference for competitive FPS? ]
  
 5) Can you still connect an external headphone/headset to it e.g. Sennheiser PC 363D > Y adapter to Mixamp and Mixamp with usb and optical to PS4? 
  
 6) How much would you spend on the 2011 version of the Mixamp? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## kayan

stillhart said:


> What amp and such are you using?




My desktop setup has a Fiio E09K paired with a Fiio E17. I'll be using the E17 as a portable AMP as well.


----------



## High Fidelity

elf-1 said:


> I am looking for a Mixamp in Holland and they are quite hard to find, now someone on the internet said to me he has a Mixamp 2011/2012 for sale, now I have some questions
> 
> 1) In the reviews MLE talks about Mixamp Pro 2013, Mixamp Pro and the 5.8 ones, The 2011/2012 is the normal Mixamp Pro right?
> 
> ...


 
 1) Yes. It looks similar to the 2013 and 2014 versions. Essentially same functionality.
  
 Pic of 2011 version: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 2) Soundwise I like the 2011 over the 2014. I bought the 2014 version (about 2 weeks ago) because I thought my Astro controller cable had failed yet again. I was sick of replacing it. It turned out to be the Xbox One chat adapter cable that was faulty. While I prefer the 2011's sound it did have its flaws, at least for me. I replaced faulty y-adapters and controller cables on 3-4 occasions. Also, the tiny hinged door that holds the optical cable broke earlier this year. I had to tape the optical cable to the Mixamp because Astro would not sell me the plastic door separately. 
  
 3) As far as I know, yes.
  
 4) The Pro Mode does accentuate certain sounds, but I liked the sound from the 2011 Mixamp Pro better. Can't really describe exactly why. I had no problem sound whoring with the 2011 version. 
  
 5) That's how I had my AD700 connected to my Xbox 360/One. I assume it's the same for the PS4.
  
 6) Probably $150 max


----------



## Spartoi

I purchased a Turtle Beach DSS and I'm hoping I won't regret it. I didn't think I would need the mixamp because I'll be using these headphones which have their own built in amp. Is the DAC in the DSS comparable to the Mixamp Pro? I was going to get a desktop DAC/Amp (Fiio E10K) for my PC but I might also use it with the DSS and my PS4.
  
 So my question is how do these setups ranks:
  
 Fiio E10K + TB DSS
 vs.
 Mixamp Pro
 vs 
 TB DSS
  
 I'll be primarily gaming on my PS4 btw.


----------



## rudyae86

spartoi said:


> I purchased a Turtle Beach DSS and I'm hoping I won't regret it. I didn't think I would need the mixamp because I'll be using these headphones which have their own built in amp. Is the DAC in the DSS comparable to the Mixamp Pro? I was going to get a desktop DAC/Amp (Fiio E10K) for my PC but I might also use it with the DSS and my PS4.
> 
> So my question is how do these setups ranks:
> 
> ...


 
 those headphones look like they will give you a small soundstage and might be bloated with bass. Have not read any reviews but may I ask why stray away from what this guide offers?


----------



## Spartoi

rudyae86 said:


> those headphones look like they will give you a small soundstage and might be bloated with bass. Have not read any reviews but may I ask why stray away from what this guide offers?


 
 I already own those headphones and was just interested in trying out headphones + gaming rather than my 5.1 speaker system.


----------



## hi2chris

axelcloris said:


> I was under the impression that you could use a USB adapter on the PS4 and then a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable from the adapter to the Mixamp 5.8 base. I can't confirm this, though, as I use the official Astro USB cable.


 

 yeah I'm finding so much conflicting information regarding this, you wouldn't be able to link me to an example cable you are talking about?


----------



## Elf-1

> Originally Posted by *High Fidelity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 3)Is the Mixamp 2011/2012 compatible with the PS4?
> As far as I know, yes.


 
 Can anyone confirm this, because High Fidelity is not sure? Is the Astro Mixamp 2011 compatible with the PS4? I need to know this before purchasing it. On the internet I found this thread on the Astro site which doesn't seem to positive, some users may find the voice chat volume too low, is this a common problem? Source: http://forums.astrogaming.com/index.php?threads/2011-a40-and-mixamp-ps4-compatiblity.74561/
  


> Originally Posted by *High Fidelity* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 4) The Mixamp 2011/2012 doesn't come with EQ Modes I guess, does this make a whole lot of difference for competitive FPS?
> The Pro Mode does accentuate certain sounds, but I liked the sound from the 2011 Mixamp Pro better. Can't really describe exactly why. I had no problem sound whoring with the 2011 version.


 
  
 Okay, did the surround sound improve when Astro made new versions of the Mixamp e.g. is the 2014 version soundwise better than the 2011 Pro version? 
  
 MLE is positive about the EQ Modes, how would you describe the only mode on the 2011, is that more Core preset or more Pro preset compared on the 2013 MIxamp? 
  
 And to anyone else, would you buy the 2013 version over the 2011 Mixamp? And why? Do the EQ Modes make the difference in your decision? Or don't they make a whole lot of difference?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm positive about EQ? I don't use them. I only mention them for the review because it was one of the main features. The Mixamp can help terrible headphones sound halfway decent, which is the only time I would ever EQ: with bad sounding headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I'm positive about EQ? I don't use them. I only mention them for the review because it was one of the main features. The Mixamp can help terrible headphones sound halfway decent, which is the only time I would ever EQ: with bad sounding headphones.


 
  
 EQ definitely helps with the HD700... >.>


----------



## Elf-1

mad lust envy said:


> I'm positive about EQ? I don't use them. I only mention them for the review because it was one of the main features. The Mixamp can help terrible headphones sound halfway decent, which is the only time I would ever EQ: with bad sounding headphones.


 
 Okay misunderstanding then from my point, sorry for that. Just read the review and saw under the pros the EQ Modes and the sentence "The Pro, Core, and Media presets are all very functional and worth using".
  
 Which one would you consider the best Mixamp in terms of (surround) sound or are they all the same? In terms of functionality its the 2013, that's what you said in your review.


----------



## kayan

mad lust envy said:


> HD650
> HE500
> LCD2?




Hey MLE! I took your advice and picked up the HD650 to replace my Annie's. I just got them yesterday, but honestly can't tell a huge difference in quality for my music. Seems to have a tad bit more bass than the Annies though. Can't decide which is more comfortable yet though.

 Am I going to have to spend a lot more than 400 for a much better sound for music and gaming? The HD650s were 409, and have 30 day return through Amazon. What should I do?

I still have the Fiio e17 & e09k.


----------



## Sam21

The annies are supposed to have a much better soundstage....


----------



## Stillhart

kayan said:


> Hey MLE! I took your advice and picked up the HD650 to replace my Annie's. I just got them yesterday, but honestly can't tell a huge difference in quality for my music. Seems to have a tad bit more bass than the Annies though. Can't decide which is more comfortable yet though.
> 
> Am I going to have to spend a lot more than 400 for a much better sound for music and gaming? The HD650s were 409, and have 30 day return through Amazon. What should I do?
> 
> I still have the Fiio e17 & e09k.


 
 While I've never heard the Fiio stuff you have, I know the HD650 sounds pretty sweet through my Audio-GD NFB-15 DAC and Project Ember tube amp.  
  
 It may be worth upgrading your audio chain before the headphones at this point.  I think from a price/performance standpoint, that might be your best bang for the buck once you have an Annie and HD650.


----------



## Spartoi

I got my DSS today but no mic support. Is there a way to get my Boom Pro Mic working with DSS? If not, would it work with the Mixamp Pro?


----------



## Decimator

Hey guys, I apologize if this has been asked before, but which do you feel is better for gaming, the Fidelio X2 or the AKG K712? I'll be using the headphones exclusively for gaming and I do a mix of casual and competitive play so I want a headphone with a large and detailed soundstage but also be fun and immersive. If there are any headphones you feel are better than the ones I suggested, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd like to stay under $400 for the headphones.


----------



## bavinck

I am using the Sennheiser Game One headphones from a Mixamp Pro 2013 out of my ps4. I notice when watching Game of Thrones that the deep bass in big actions scenes, or even during the opening song, sound distorted. Is it possible these headphones are simply unable to created the lowest frequencies that this soundtrack presents? I thought it was a amplification issue and attached my Magni into the chain but the problem persists. Is this a mixamp issue? I do not seem to experience this issue listening to music without the mixamp. Can anyone suggest what might be happening?


----------



## Change is Good

decimator said:


> Hey guys, I apologize if this has been asked before, but which do you feel is better for gaming, the Fidelio X2 or the AKG K712? I'll be using the headphones exclusively for gaming and I do a mix of casual and competitive play so I want a headphone with a large and detailed soundstage but also be fun and immersive. If there are any headphones you feel are better than the ones I suggested, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'd like to stay under $400 for the headphones.




Large and detailed soundstage is one of the X2's weaknesses, so the K712 might be your best bet.


----------



## burritoboy9984

bavinck said:


> I am using the Sennheiser Game One headphones from a Mixamp Pro 2013 out of my ps4. I notice when watching Game of Thrones that the deep bass in big actions scenes, or even during the opening song, sound distorted. Is it possible these headphones are simply unable to created the lowest frequencies that this soundtrack presents? I thought it was a amplification issue and attached my Magni into the chain but the problem persists. Is this a mixamp issue? I do not seem to experience this issue listening to music without the mixamp. Can anyone suggest what might be happening?


 
  
 Pretty sure it is the mixamp making the sound distorted. It rolls off the bass at low frequencies I believe. Try taking the mixamp out of the chain (you will only be getting stereo, but can make sure it is the mixamp causing it).


----------



## PoobBubes

What should in game audio settings be set to when using the Astro mixamp? Some games have settings for stereo or surround or in the case of the Last of Us Remastered there are stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 headseat options. I wasn't sure if if should always be set to stereo since the mixamp is doing the surround processing.


----------



## bavinck

burritoboy9984 said:


> Pretty sure it is the mixamp making the sound distorted. It rolls off the bass at low frequencies I believe. Try taking the mixamp out of the chain (you will only be getting stereo, but can make sure it is the mixamp causing it).


 
 I didn't know the mixamp did that. I will try it through my receiver tonight to compare. Thanks for the reply. Anyone know of a dolby headphone dac that outputs the full frequency of signal? Mixamp is nice for chatting during games, but I would spring for another dac that doesn't handle chat but doesn't roll off the bass for movies. Maybe I need to save up for the X7?


----------



## Fegefeuer

unfortunately only the x7 will deliver


----------



## Evshrug

spartoi said:


> I got my DSS today but no mic support. Is there a way to get my Boom Pro Mic working with DSS? If not, would it work with the Mixamp Pro?



If you want to use both a DSS and a BoomPro, you have to wire chat audio from your controller around the DSS and recombine it to one Jack. It's a pain.
The Mixamp, yes you can.

Personally, I just used a separate USB mic, and then the DSS gets all audio (Game and Chat). Fewest adapters and setup issues.


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> If you want to use both a DSS and a BoomPro, you have to wire chat audio from your controller around the DSS and recombine it to one Jack. It's a pain.
> The Mixamp, yes you can.
> 
> Personally, I just used a separate USB mic, and then the DSS gets all audio (Game and Chat). Fewest adapters and setup issues.


 
  
 I think I'll just get the Mixamp Pro then. That won't require any adaptors right? Could I use the Mixamp 5.8 and get all of the functionality/quality of the Mixamp Pro but just in a wireless form?
  
 But to keep an open mind, what USB mic do you use? I assume it doesn't attach to your headphones and so you have to stay within its range.


----------



## LB Felipe

The X7 will drive K712 Pro satisfactorily?


----------



## RRod

lb felipe said:


> The X7 will drive K712 Pro satisfactorily?


 
  
 Yes.


----------



## BifePlays

Is the AKG K712 the best one for balance for Fun, Competitive and Comfort, with grades above 8?


----------



## Change is Good

I'm just now realizing I've had my SRH1540 for over a year, now. It's a wonderful closed headphone that I highly recommend!

Edit: 13 months to be exact. *personal record*


----------



## Decimator

Bummer, I was seriously considering the X2 but it might not be what I was hoping for. Change is Good, are there any other headphones you would recommend? I saw that you like the SRH1540, how do they perform for gaming?


----------



## Change is Good

decimator said:


> Bummer, I was seriously considering the X2 but it might not be what I was hoping for. Change is Good, are there any other headphones you would recommend? I saw that you like the SRH1540, how do they perform for gaming?


 
  
 Not really the best option for gaming since they are closed, but they are very engaging with plenty of immersion on single player games and movies. I believe, however, that if you will be owning only one headphone, the X2 would be the better choice.


----------



## rudyae86

So the Sound Blaster X7 is now available on Amazon.........
  
 Hmmmm...if only 400 dollars were to magically appear in my bank account, they would be so awesome.....very awesome.....
  
 Edit:
  
 Just realized it says in stock Jan. 4, 2015...


----------



## Decimator

Just be owning one, I wish I had the funds for more. So ultimately, you think I should go with the X2 over the K712? I just really want to be sure I make the right choice.


----------



## Change is Good

decimator said:


> Just be owning one, I wish I had the funds for more. So ultimately, you think I should go with the X2 over the K712? I just really want to be sure I make the right choice.




You can't go wrong with either. Though, I think you may enjoy the X2 more since it will be your only headphone.


----------



## Decimator

Thanks Change is Good, I appreciate it.


----------



## rudyae86

decimator said:


> Just be owning one, I wish I had the funds for more. So ultimately, you think I should go with the X2 over the K712? I just really want to be sure I make the right choice.


 
 I would say that, if you dont have an amp or not planning to purchase an amp, X2 would be the choice. I havent had a listen to the k712 and from what I have read, the K712 seems to go a little above beyond the X2 sound quality, with proper amping of course. And the better the gear you use with the K series headphones, the better the sound quality it will give.
  
 Honestly, I would probably go with the X2. All around, its a more versatile headphone....why?
  
 Because,
 1) detachable cable, you can add a Vmoda boom pro mic
 2) Doesnt really need amping but using one will improve sound quality as well
 3)Slightly cheaper than the K712
 4) Honestly I cant think of something else, unless someone else mentions something I may have forgotten lol


----------



## Decimator

I would also be purchasing an amp/dac combo, similar budget as the headphones, around $400. I was thinking maybe the nfb11.32 or 15.32, schiit magni or vali with modi, or the new soundblaster x7. I havn't owned higher end gear before though, the most expensive setup I've had was the Astro A40 with mixamp pro so everything I'm considering purchasing is based off of what others have said and what I've been able to research.


rudyae86 said:


> I would say that, if you dont have an amp or not planning to purchase an amp, X2 would be the choice. I havent had a listen to the k712 and from what I have read, the K712 seems to go a little above beyond the X2 sound quality, with proper amping of course. And the better the gear you use with the K series headphones, the better the sound quality it will give.
> 
> Honestly, I would probably go with the X2. All around, its a more versatile headphone....why?
> 
> ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm really not hyping the X7 (I would a bit with HDMI and PCM blalbabla) but unfortunately that's the best audio device for us gamers in a long long time and it's really versatile as it covers both PC (with PCM) and console (AC3) needs and is easily transportable between both sets. Not to forget that it's a standalone ZxR with PSU. That's a huge jump from something like the Mixamp.  
  
 It also got dual headphone outputs for DEDICATED COOP SESSIONS AT MIDNIGHT.


----------



## Toxos

rudyae86 said:


> So the Sound Blaster X7 is now available on Amazon.........
> 
> Hmmmm...if only 400 dollars were to magically appear in my bank account, they would be so awesome.....very awesome.....
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmm... I need to look and see if it has prime on it too. I wonder if that is just a placeholder date?


fegefeuer said:


> Hypety hype hypester-train


 
 HYPE! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 but yeah my finger is itching over the pre-order button...


----------



## Yethal

spartoi said:


> I got my DSS today but no mic support. Is there a way to get my Boom Pro Mic working with DSS? If not, would it work with the Mixamp Pro?


 
 Buy a steelseries audiomixer or a similar device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Waiting for Creative to give us a cheaper X7 alternative without the speaker section. Literally the same device without that, for maybe $150 less.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Waiting for Creative to give us a cheaper X7 alternative without the speaker section. Literally the same device without that, for maybe $150 less.


 
 That is something I'd be interested in.


----------



## BigBadWulf

fegefeuer said:


> I'm really not hyping the X7 (I would a bit with HDMI and PCM blalbabla) but unfortunately that's the best audio device for us gamers in a long long time and it's really versatile as it covers both PC (with PCM) and console (AC3) needs and is easily transportable between both sets. Not to forget that it's a standalone ZxR with PSU. That's a huge jump from something like the Mixamp.
> 
> It also got dual headphone outputs for DEDICATED COOP SESSIONS AT MIDNIGHT.


 

 So you think the headphone section is very similar? The SBX Simulation will be the same? I thought it will be a difference that it is worth to pay something around 250-300€ (later).
 There is no Need for a PC gamer to take the X7?


----------



## Toxos

mad lust envy said:


> Waiting for Creative to give us a cheaper X7 alternative without the speaker section. Literally the same device without that, for maybe $150 less.


 
 Wait, so if lets say I buy a 5.1 speaker system, its going to come with everything it needs unless you get the speakers by themselves. So this will work for that too?
  
 Then again... I don't think I will need 5.1 next to my computer. Hmm... oop sorry.. thinking out loud again.


----------



## LB Felipe

rrod said:


> Yes.


 
  
 Even with a 10 ohms of output?
  
 If so, then a Sound Blaster ZxR also drives K712 Pro appropriately, right (sorry for bringing PC issue here)?


----------



## RRod

lb felipe said:


> Even with a 10 ohms of output?
> 
> If so, then a Sound Blaster ZxR also drives K712 Pro appropriately, right (sorry for bringing PC issue here)?


 
  
   
Yes, it should. My cheap laptop soundcard can drive both my Grado SR60e and my HD700.


----------



## AxelCloris

rrod said:


> Yes, it should. My cheap laptop soundcard can drive both my Grado SR60e and my HD700.


 
  
 While I agree that a cheap laptop sound card can indeed allow the HD 700 to make sound, I highly doubt it's actually driving them properly. My onboard sound in my MBP isn't as good as my DAC/amp, and Macs tend to have better stock sound than other laptops.


----------



## RRod

axelcloris said:


> While I agree that a cheap laptop sound card can indeed allow the HD 700 to make sound, I highly doubt it's actually driving them properly. My onboard sound in my MBP isn't as good as my DAC/amp, and Macs tend to have better stock sound than other laptops.


 
  
 I wouldn't bet money on an actual legit AB test; but either way, the X7 will surely do the job for the AKGs, or would you contend that?


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Waiting for Creative to give us a cheaper X7 alternative without the speaker section. Literally the same device without that, for maybe $150 less.


 
 Whether that will happen is a whole different matter... I guess I can't wait months to find out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: Well, for some god-knows-why reason Creative removed my country from the Pan-Europe shipping destinations... It was there 3 days ago, now it ain't.
 That's just greeeeeeat...


----------



## High Fidelity

I have some questions about the Mixamp Pro 2014.
  
 1) Is the Core Mode EQ setting the same sound output as the Mixamp Pro 2011?
  
 2) What is the ASTRO Mode EQ setting?
  
 3) Which EQ setting(s) - Pro, Media, ASTRO, Core - do you think would be best for sports games and racing games?


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> I have some questions about the Mixamp Pro 2014.
> 
> 1) Is the Core Mode EQ setting the same sound output as the Mixamp Pro 2011?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure, I don't have the 2014.  But this might help:  http://bit.ly/1yUH6va
  
 Regarding which is best, I'd say try them all and decide for yourself.


----------



## bavinck

Pro is emphasized treble and less bass to identify footsteps, media is emphasized bass and voices for movies, core is straight 5.1 signal, and Astro is like pro but emphasized chat for lan parties. I like core for everything and pro for competitive gaming. The media makes bass too much and the bass roll off the mixamp has is much too evidence that with media in my opinion.


----------



## terminaldawn

I am in the market for a wireless headset.  Looking at the Astro A50, Elite 800 and Steel Series H.  I have ruled out the Plyr 1 due to friends and other internet reviews stating quality is very sub-par.  I take care of my things but I just don't want to deal with it. Are there any other wireless headset options I should be considering?  Or any of these that stand out over the others?
  
 I know some of you may point me to the mixamps and bring your own headphone options.  I may consider that if the quality doesn't live up to my expectations from above, but I do want to give the pure wifi option a shot and return if I don't like.  I am used to gaming with my PC 360s with Dolby Headphone on my PC so I have somewhat high standards.  Kinda just want to have a cords free experience on the couch while the family is sleeping or to tune them out during the day  Definitely regret selling my MixAmp 5.8... just always figured there would be better options down the road if I decided to console game again.  Guess I was wrong 
  
 In summary, what is the consensus here for best Wireless Headset?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Waiting for Creative to give us a cheaper X7 alternative without the speaker section. Literally the same device without that, for maybe $150 less.






stillhart said:


> That is something I'd be interested in.



So for the same price as the ZxR intro MSRP, you want to add to a ZxR: a power supply, dolby decoding, enclosure, and internal memory to store settings, not to mention "extra" luxury and usability features like headphone stand, USB Host Mode (MFi-Certified and some Androids), room calibration for (powered) speakers, two-device Bluetooth (for a pair of speakers/headphones, or a smart device for audio source and app to control sound and inputs/outputs), and the extra features that they both already share? Not going to happen. Not even if you take out the "extras." Creative MAY make another Recon3D-level device, but I doubt it'll have optical output, probably a lower grade DAC and amp than X7.





toxos said:


> Wait, so if lets say I buy a 5.1 speaker system, its going to come with everything it needs unless you get the speakers by themselves. So this will work for that too?
> Then again... I don't think I will need 5.1 next to my computer. Hmm... oop sorry.. thinking out loud again.



The X7 has a power amplifier for two speakers (front L/R), the other ports are for self-powered speakers or connection to other power amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They did well with the Recon USB. Now just a device like that with a better amp and SBX. Literally, a new Recon. The Recon had an impressive list of features for cheap. Don't see why a new version with a better amp and SBX would make it improbable to you. They could probably sell a new Recon with SBX for a similar price of around $100. Instead of the so-so internal amp, a better/stronger one, and sell it for $200-$250.


----------



## cdsa35000

They already have "updated" the Recon3D USB to SBX (only cosmetic logo's changed).




http://us.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blaster-recon3d-omega-wireless


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is still not what we are asking for. We're looking for a bridge between Recon/Mixamp and the X7. 

And is that new Recon a standalone? Doesn't look like it. Looks like an A50 type where you can't use your own headphones, meaning worthless to us here.


----------



## cdsa35000

It's exactly the same old Recon3D USB (now with SBX logo), they'd discontinued to sell it standalone only.
The ext. card is the add-on wifi transmitter for the wireless headset.




http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/soundcards/2011/10/24/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-review/1
---
UPDATE:
Watch their promo video at 0:56 >
[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O7HABSLVLE [/VIDEO]

screenshot with jacks description:





Recon3D SBX review:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGISsB7iL4Q[/video]

Proog of rebranding:
Recon3D USB CORE3D chip CA0136, guy missread 8 from bit-tech:




Better pic:




http://www.soomal.com/pic/10100019773.htm

SB-Axx1 chip CA0136: 





> First chip we see here is the Creative CA0136, which presumably is what Creative is now calling the SB-Axx1 sound processor. If this chip looks familiar, that’s because it’s 100% identical to the Sound Core 3D sound processor being used on the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D USB. As far as I can tell, Creative’s new SB-Axx1 is just a straight rebrand of the Sound Core 3D.



http://www.custompcreview.com/reviews/creative-sound-blaster-axx-sbx-10-sbx-20-review/15614/4/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OK... That link is of the OLD one. I wanna see a NEW one, as a standalone. And with a headphone jack.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I, for one, don't need all those features on the X7. It will be overkill, for me, so there is that. If it will be improbable for a company to make something like MLE just asked for, then I'll be holding on to my 5.8 until it craps out on me. And then, I'll still go for the cheaper devices.

It's not like one can properly critique sound, anyway, when blowing schiit up on BF4 or raiding on Destiny. Too much going on for one to do so.

But, for those who play nothing but single player and have their PC, console, and speakers on the same setup, I can see why they praise it.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Well, I, for one, don't need all those features on the X7. It will be overkill, for me, so there is that. If it will be improbable for a company to make something like MLE just asked for, then I'll be holding on to my 5.8 until it craps out on me. And then, I'll still go for the cheaper devices.
> 
> It's not like one can properly critique sound, anyway, when blowing schiit up on BF4 or raiding on Destiny. Too much going on for one to do so.
> 
> But, for those who play nothing but single player and have their PC, console, and speakers on the same setup, I can see why they praise it.


 

 If anyone is going to use the stereo speaker terminals on the X7 make sure you get speakers that are not hard to drive..something like this will do!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> They did well with the Recon USB. Now just a device like that with a better amp and SBX. Literally, a new Recon. The Recon had an impressive list of features for cheap. Don't see why a new version with a better amp and SBX would make it improbable to you. They could probably sell a new Recon with SBX for a similar price of around $100. Instead of the so-so internal amp, a better/stronger one, and sell it for $200-$250.




I was saying a new Recon3D would be more likely than an X7 without speaker amp. There's more differentiating the two than just the speaker amp is what I was getting at. I think the Recon3D USB is still being sold bundled with a pair of headphones, but no optical output. Would be cool if you could hack the Bluetooth or something.


----------



## cdsa35000

X7 is the upgraded Recon3D USB with a main fail the useless STEREO classD amp.
It use the same USB Core3D CA0136 chip, remarketed as SB Axx1.

I bet the lineup would be X8 witn true 5.1 amp and then X9 with true 7.1 amp.


----------



## Yethal

Or maybe a device with only a DSP chip and microphone ADC with HDMI passthrough for audio and USB for chat with S/PDIF stereo output and a micjack that'd let us add surround processing to any stereo setup. I'd like that. More than X7 and much more than the mixamp.


----------



## RRod

yethal said:


> Or maybe a device with only a DSP chip and microphone ADC with HDMI passthrough for audio and USB for chat with S/PDIF stereo output and a micjack that'd let us add surround processing to any stereo setup. I'd like that. More than X7 and much more than the mixamp.


 
  
 Many of us would, but doesn't seem like a gig any company wants into :/


----------



## Yethal

rrod said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Or maybe a device with only a DSP chip and microphone ADC with HDMI passthrough for audio and USB for chat with S/PDIF stereo output and a micjack that'd let us add surround processing to any stereo setup. I'd like that. More than X7 and much more than the mixamp.
> ...


 
 Well, the Turtle Beach TAC seems to be the only other option right now. Something bothers me about it though, why are there ethernet ports on the backside of the unit? Are these the daisy chain ports?


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Well, the Turtle Beach TAC seems to be the only other option right now. Something bothers me about it though, why are there ethernet ports on the backside of the unit? Are these the daisy chain ports?


 
 Maybe they're I2S/RJ45 that can carry a processed signal? I think that's too good to be true though, as only a few DACs allow it.
 I hope the TAC is good but going off what value TB usually is, I'd predict the components will be *****... 
 I wonder what purpose is there in a HDMI port when it is 'program' only? That's a wasted opportunity right there -_-


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Maybe they're I2S/RJ45 that can carry a processed signal? I think that's too good to be true though, as only a few DACs allow it.
> I hope the TAC is good but going off what value TB usually is, I'd predict the components will be *****...
> I wonder what purpose is there in a HDMI port when it is 'program' only? That's a wasted opportunity right there -_-


 
 Well the DSS is at least good value for the money.  Hopefully the TAC will be the same.  Have they announced a release date or price yet?


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Well the DSS is at least good value for the money.  Hopefully the TAC will be the same.  Have they announced a release date or price yet?




Yep the DSS is the bright light in TB's portfolio. And maybe some of their low priced headsets.
No price, release should be early 2015, I believe...


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Well, the Turtle Beach TAC seems to be the only other option right now. Something bothers me about it though, why are there ethernet ports on the backside of the unit? Are these the daisy chain ports?


 
  
 My guess is that it's simply to network the TACs together in a tournament environment, similar to what Mixamp does, to have lag free team communications contained within its own intranet.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> I wonder what purpose is there in a HDMI port when it is 'program' only? That's a wasted opportunity right there -_-


 
 Not an HDMI port, that's actually a micro usb port.


----------



## conquerator2

My bad then, sorry.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The TAC is 299 Dollars


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> The TAC is 299 Dollars


 
 It'd better come with a free BJ for $300...


----------



## Evshrug

^Blue Jeans? Why would a gaming audio device come with pants anyway? They seem like unrelated products. That would be so _frivolous_.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> It'd better come with a free BJ for $300...


 
  
 Better than coming with a free BJD. Those things are scary.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Better than coming with a free BJD. Those things are scary.




Okay, I was joking around before, but I honestly have no idea what BJD stands for.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Okay, I was joking around before, but I honestly have no idea what BJD stands for.


 
  
 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=BJD
  
 You have been forever educated/scarred.


----------



## Yethal

It better come with built-in coffee maker and a blowjob machine if it's going to cost 300$. Even astro shows more modesty when it comes to pricing.


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> It better come with built-in coffee maker and a blowjob machine if it's going to cost 300$. Even astro shows more *modesty *when it comes to pricing.


 
  
 I think you might be forgetting how immodest Turtle Beach actually is. Then again, at least they're not Razer.
  





  
 This is actual promotion material. [Source]


----------



## conquerator2

Well, if the TAC doesn't set an exception for TB's standards, the X7 is shaping up to be greater and greater value by the minute


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> It better come with built-in coffee maker and a blowjob machine if it's going to cost 300$. Even astro shows more modesty when it comes to pricing.


 

 I think it will have to be a mean BJ machine for that price!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > It better come with built-in coffee maker and a blowjob machine if it's going to cost 300$. Even astro shows more modesty when it comes to pricing.
> ...


 
 Nothing worse than a 300$ machine without a BJ module. I wonder why audiophiles even bother with ultraexpensive gear.


----------



## cdsa35000

Wth ppl talking and searching/waiting for?
If you're seriously wanting the ultimate all-round satisfying audiophile gaming/musical head gears, you'll need to spend $1000+ and knowledgable to do technical engineering DIY Mods to your soundpreferences and ones you have that, you won't search for any other upgrades for a long time then.
Im totally satisfied with my completed headset: Recon3D usb+X-CAN V3+SA5000.

The best sounding gear is to be able to reproduce the sounds as is recorded LIVE and matched/compared to your (p)reference of your own hearing from the everydays LIVE sounds perceptions.

The best natural vibrant transient LIVE sounding speakercones are still paperfiber-like materials.
Like the nano fibers drivers in SA5000 they sound to my hearing the best natural livelike vs the plastic sounds like "plastic".
SA5000 paperlike fibers driver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Z1000 plastic (pet) driver
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




The best natural sounding headamp are the hybrid solidstate/tube to combine the best of the two worlds as ss "digital" + tube "analog" = natural with the X-CAN V3.
Ones you can hear (almost feel) the "air" in any sound image, thats the perfect combination and its perfect for any audio genre: gaming/music/movie.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Funny how you always repeat yourself about ultimate detail extraction, naturalness, bionanomachine powered drivers and so on yet you are unable to distinguish SBX from THX.


----------



## cdsa35000

I never heard the actual SBX vs THX comparison ther than some youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NirHR5l9AU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbf--jR3HQ
I do hear from above THX sounds abit "thinner" than SBX, but could the card quality differences in the output and recording method.

Did you compared the normal STEREO mode with both disabled THX and SBX cards? and you cant hear any quality differences between 1 hardware different cards?

Only if you can make a THX vs SBX comparison video with the same hardware cards: Recon3D usb/pcie THX (v1) VS Recon3D usb/pcie SBX (rev.2).
Only by then we can conclude if there're any actual differences, otherwise differences caused by different hardware audio components/cards.


----------



## burritoboy9984

fegefeuer said:


> The TAC is 299 Dollars


 
  
 Where are you getting that from?


----------



## Yethal

cdsa35000 said:


> Wth ppl talking and searching/waiting for?
> If you're seriously wanting the ultimate all-round satisfying audiophile gaming/musical head gears, you'll need to spend $1000+ and knowledgable to do technical engineering DIY Mods to your soundpreferences and ones you have that, you won't search for any other upgrades for a long time then.
> Im totally satisfied with my completed headset: Recon3D usb+X-CAN V3+SA5000.
> 
> ...


 
 Dude, You do realize that when You're using soundblaster recon 3d, You're listening to lossy, compressed 640kbps Dolby Digital signal?


----------



## cdsa35000

^^^Thats true when using the optical input, but ones your headgear passed the "hifi" quality, everything will sound as good even 8bit chiptunes and hell even hum and distorsion sounds beautifull and tolerable.
Btw Gamesounds are all compressed audiofiles except only 1 or 2 games using uncomprressed audio which is like a 40+GB game. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/132922-Titanfall-Dev-Explains-The-Games-35-GB-of-Uncompressed-Audio
Thus uncompressed audio is overated and how many are using hdmi true 7.1 audiogears? 

Can your headset do that and you're still searching for the "better"?


----------



## Evshrug

cdsa35000 said:


> I never heard the actual SBX vs THX comparison ther than some youtube videos:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NirHR5l9AU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbf--jR3HQ
> ...




No, it's easy, just use optical output (stereo PCM already processed with THX or SBX) to one DAC from two cards with the respective processing.

I'm Not going to spend $1000+ on DIY gear. I already have a college degree (major and minor), and a job, I'm not going to train myself as an electrical engineer and experiment for years to build my own headphone gear, analogue gear, DAC gear, Learn to code my own DSP software, learn the science of designing an HRTF... Way too impractical for one person and and person who is "for real" an enjoyer of the results. Forest for the trees man! The X7 isn't summit-Fi, it's convenient: I don't need to connect a more powerful amp to drive practically any headphone besides HE-6 (but I could), I don't need to connect a clearer DAC (but I could), and it connects to all my devices. The Recon3D and DSS (stock) got loud enough but sounded harsh or didn't have the potential soundstage of the can, so I almost always wanted to double-amp anyway.

So, okay cool you don't like it or have better options, nice, I'm happy to have a convenient do-all for me. Rather spend the time making money to buy that than spend more time learning to make one myself... unless I was going to make my own product for sale to others.


----------



## cdsa35000

^^^I doubt that the optical will output the processed THX/SBX audio or it just bypass the stereo, did you test/confirm it outputs THX/SBX yourself?

Have fun with the X7 and your diversity of gears reach the $1000 almost samey.


----------



## Evshrug

^yes, been using it outputting the processed signal for a year (Omni and Sounblaster Z before that, NamelessPFG did the same with his X-Fi. I don't know where you got that an X7 setup would be $1+, my whole point was that it won't need extra stuff unlike the Recon3D which had to have the volume almost maxed and sounded a bit harsh, so...


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> ^yes, been using it outputting the processed signal for a year (Omni and Sounblaster Z before that, NamelessPFG did the same with his X-Fi. I don't know where you got that an X7 setup would be $1+, my whole point was that it won't need extra stuff unlike the Recon3D which had to have the volume almost maxed and sounded a bit harsh, so...


 
 Good thing the X7 has a nice amp in there. Recon3D could have used that.....that way I dont have to double amp when I use it.
  
 Man that X7...so tempting to replace it but 400 will hurt me more...440 with tax here in CA. Ill probably just stick with my new sound blaster z for PC and Recon3D for PS3.....
  
 I would definitely use the amp to power passive speakers. Im still doing my research on that and so far AudioEngines A5+ seems like a good pair but costly. So, if I were to get the X7.....to be realistic.....
  
 Id probably wait next year


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> If you want to use both a DSS and a BoomPro, you have to wire chat audio from your controller around the DSS and recombine it to one Jack. It's a pain.
> The Mixamp, yes you can.
> 
> Personally, I just used a separate USB mic, and then the DSS gets all audio (Game and Chat). Fewest adapters and setup issues.


 
  
 Reevaluating my options, could I buy a 3.5mm to USB Stereo adaptor like this and plug it in to the DSS USB port and get mic + VSS audio? If not, would say its better to ditch my Boom Mic Pro and get a USB Mic or should I ditch the DSS and just get a Mixamp Pro?


----------



## cdsa35000

evshrug said:


> ^yes, been using it outputting the processed signal for a year (Omni and Sounblaster Z before that, NamelessPFG did the same with his X-Fi. I don't know where you got that an X7 setup would be $1+, my whole point was that it won't need extra stuff unlike the Recon3D which had to have the volume almost maxed and sounded a bit harsh, so...



I meant your new X7 and any other already have audio gears together comes into the $1000 range.
Yes, just tested the Recon3d output directly, the "air"/space transient is totally absent thus sounds direct/dry/harsh and even bloomy mid bass= sounds dead/lifeless, typical of powerless amping.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Good thing the X7 has a nice amp in there. Recon3D could have used that.....that way I dont have to double amp when I use it.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



It probably will drop a bit in price by then, so there are upsides to waiting 

I was reading up on those AudioEngine's too, though I am looking into reviews on Paradigm speakers and Chane speakers (http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers). I'll probably wait on that though, buy gifts for relatives instead.





spartoi said:


> Reevaluating my options, could I buy a 3.5mm to USB Stereo adaptor like this and plug it in to the DSS USB port and get mic + VSS audio? If not, would say its better to ditch my Boom Mic Pro and get a USB Mic or should I ditch the DSS and just get a Mixamp Pro?



Uuuuuuuh maybe? Worst case scenario, the Syba thingie might take over all audio, or less bad the chat audio might come out of the headphone jack of the Syba and you'd have to use adapters to merge the different sources of audio (game and chat) together and add the mic back too, but you would at least still have to get an extra adapter to bridge the mic port and audio from the DSS.

I think the BoomPro is best when plugged straight into the controller, and the type of Mixamp I have (but rarely use) does have a TRRS plug with the left, right, and mic audio channels. I thiiiink the regular mixamp has a TRRS plug... but I'm not 100% (Mad would know).




cdsa35000 said:


> I meant your new X7 and any other already have audio gears together comes into the $1000 range.
> Yes, just tested the Recon3d output directly, the "air"/space transient is totally absent thus sounds direct/dry/harsh and even bloomy mid bass= sounds dead/lifeless, typical of powerless amping.



Ah I see. So I think the X7 will admirably serve instead of the other stuff I have, so I'll probably sell most of that redundant gear (except the tube amp, for sentimental and variety reasons). People want me to try the Bifrost with the X7 first though, lol.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> It probably will drop a bit in price by then, so there are upsides to waiting
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm those Chane speakers, interesting. Which ones though? the 150 dollar ones or the 230? And it says for each one? or is it for a pair? If its only for one, dam! lol
  
 I feel like I have to research more on speakers since Im almost already set with headphones......at least I think I am lol


----------



## benbenkr

cdsa35000 said:


> I never heard the actual SBX vs THX comparison ther than some youtube videos:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NirHR5l9AU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbf--jR3HQ
> ...


 
  
 Weren't you the guy who kept going on about how THX = SBX on the SB Z/Zx/ZxR thread?
  
 So, now you're saying you've never actually heard them in person but is basing it off youtube? Wow.


----------



## Spartoi

Anyone have experience with the Philips Fidelio X1 and X2? Do you think the X2 is worth $100 more than the X1? The primary usage of these headphones will be for gaming (non-competitive).  
  
 Quote:


> I was reading up on those AudioEngine's too, though I am looking into reviews on Paradigm speakers and Chane speakers (http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers). I'll probably wait on that though, buy gifts for relatives instead.
> Uuuuuuuh maybe? Worst case scenario, the Syba thingie might take over all audio, or less bad the chat audio might come out of the headphone jack of the Syba and you'd have to use adapters to merge the different sources of audio (game and chat) together and add the mic back too, but you would at least still have to get an extra adapter to bridge the mic port and audio from the DSS.
> 
> I think the BoomPro is best when plugged straight into the controller, and the type of Mixamp I have (but rarely use) does have a TRRS plug with the left, right, and mic audio channels. I thiiiink the regular mixamp has a TRRS plug... but I'm not 100% (Mad would know).


 
 I'm just going to get a Mixamp Pro. Sticking with the DSS seems be more of a hassle and the Mixamp Pro will sound better, right?


----------



## Stillhart

spartoi said:


> Anyone have experience with the Philips Fidelio X1 and X2? Do you think the X2 is worth $100 more than the X1?


 
  
 This has been discussed in the thread.  Try searching...


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> Weren't you the guy who kept going on about how THX = SBX on the SB Z/Zx/ZxR thread?
> 
> So, now you're saying you've never actually heard them in person but is basing it off youtube? Wow.



Yep, that's how he/she put themself out there. When SBX First came out, many people speculated that they might be the same, but some people on that thread tested it out and quantified it, so basically old news which is being challenged. Meh.
Lol I wish I could post a sound bite simply on this website, I'd just record a short "meh" as my response. A hint of Kermit the Frog to the pronunciation, lol 




spartoi said:


> I'm just going to get a Mixamp Pro. Sticking with the DSS seems be more of a hassle and the Mixamp Pro will sound better, right?



It'll sound not as good (more background noise, weaker amp) and cost more than a Blue Microphone Snowball off EBay or a Samson usb mic new. But it's up to you... Meh.


----------



## Spartoi

stillhart said:


> This has been discussed in the thread.  Try searching...


 
  
 Sorry for being so noob-ish. It seems the consensus is that the X2 is (overall) better than the X1 (as expected). I was more interested in the opinions about how the X1 and X2 compare given the $100 difference I mentioned (if the X2 was worth the upgrade), but I'll just get the X2. The price difference isn't _that _much and the X2's improved cable and replaceable earcups make them more appealing in addition to their overall better sound. 
  


evshrug said:


> It'll sound not as good (more background noise, weaker amp) and cost more than a Blue Microphone Snowball off EBay or a Samson usb mic new. But it's up to you... Meh.


 
  
 The issue with a usb mic is that I have stay in its range. I like having a mic on my headphones since I do have to worry about being too far from the mic, plus I never have to sit uncomfortably in front of a mic.


----------



## Evshrug

^yes, as I've observed with regular use that a year and a half makes a noticable alteration to the sound signature... Might be a good one though, like my more bassy 2.5 year-old Q701's were.

I have my Snowball Ice (the Cardioid only mic) on my desk and I sit back in my chair, people hear me well. I've also had it on a coffee table while I sat 2.5 feet back and people heard me pretty well, and embarrassingly I had a pretty long fart one night and they picked THAT up pretty well... XD


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> ^yes, as I've observed with regular use that a year and a half makes a noticable alteration to the sound signature... Might be a good one though, like my more bassy 2.5 year-old Q701's were.
> 
> I have my Snowball Ice (the Cardioid only mic) on my desk and I sit back in my chair, people hear me well. I've also had it on a coffee table while I sat 2.5 feet back and people heard me pretty well, and embarrassingly I had a pretty long fart one night and they picked THAT up pretty well... XD


 
  
 My impressions of the Blue Snowball mic is from this video and as seen, once the reviewer leans back the mic quality drops substantially. Also, I'm not gaming on desk, just a chair in front of the TV.


----------



## Evshrug

spartoi said:


> My impressions of the Blue Snowball mic is from this video and as seen, once the viewer leans back the mic quality drops substantially. Also, I'm not gaming on desk, just a chair in front of the TV.




He sounds like he's using the -10dB setting the whole time. This is for the other mic, but matches my experience with the Snowball too.
[Video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=InhS6xOoPwc[/video]
Remember, you can also increase the dB gain in the PS4's settings, too.


----------



## cdsa35000

benbenkr said:


> Weren't you the guy who kept going on about how THX = SBX on the SB Z/Zx/ZxR thread?
> 
> So, now you're saying you've never actually heard them in person but is basing it off youtube? Wow.



Actually also based on the answers from Creative Reps said its just rebranding and the fact Creative never stated that SBX is different or better than THX, wouldnt that make be better marketing fuse if they said that SBX is way better than THX?
And the Remarketing of the "new" SB Axx1 soundchip is exactly the same Core3D have the same chip partnr. CA0132 pcie and CA0136 usb, just because of SBX change.
Show me any (official) statements/reviews that state SBX is different and better than THX!
http://www.techpowerup.com/185395/creative-revises-sound-blaster-recon3d-with-sbx-pro-studio.html
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-now-with-sbx-pro-studio.html
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1799986


----------



## Fegefeuer

Looks like it's time to give up the SA5000 and the rest of your gear and listen to music via the telephone of the rep you are constantly talking to. 
  
 Do you want to know what a Creative Rep told me when I asked him about adding OpenAL features like Elevation/MacroFx stuff and a few other things about improving HRTF via DS3D/OpenAL  etc.? 
  
 "you do know your stuff " <-- That was the answer. He didn't know anything at all. Neither was he able to say anything about the basic room paramters of SBX. Yet you trust them over many of us. I don't need your trust but based on your trust level into corporate pr speak it seems you don't need any exchange of experience in this forum at all because basically everyone's lying. Evshrug, me, the Chicolomist, benbkr, Mighty Love Entity and many others who noticed the differences and ended the previous speculation instantly.
  
 I didn't need the HD 800 to differentiate SBX vs. THX (ZxR vs. Titanium HD) in a totally fair comparison (SPDIF stereo mix -> D2 DAC).


----------



## conquerator2

Where's Mightly Love Entity when you need him?


----------



## cdsa35000

Then I can believe those SBX vs. THX (ZxR vs. Titanium HD) sound different as they are totally different cards and old Ti HD dont use Core3D DSP.

But Im talking here about the Recon3D v1 VS rev.2 therefore:
*I dont believe the same hardware cards from Recon3D USB/PCIE rev.2 SBX are different than THX as they use the same updated drivers and firmware (except rev2 use the SBX logo controlskin). *

Reps is just small part of the info, its about there isn't any Official statements from Creative that SBX is NOT THX towards the Recon3D cards.


----------



## Yethal

spartoi said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to use both a DSS and a BoomPro, you have to wire chat audio from your controller around the DSS and recombine it to one Jack. It's a pain.
> ...


 
 Buy a steelseries audiomixer or a similar device (basically any console stereo headset from previous generation will do as they have both 3.5mm and usb inputs and will plug nicely into the DSS)


----------



## MichaelJames99

So I am just wondering if I am going to hear a good difference here....  I am using a Digital out (Component or SPDIF) out from my Marantz AV7702 preamp processor to RECON3d I bought last year to Musical Fidelity XCAN v2 to AKG712 pro headphones.  I'm wondering if the X7 would be the right answer for me.
 I don't have a DAC right now (except what is built into the RECON3D).
  
 I honestly have not been very impressed with the REcon3d unit.  I am 100% movies, no gaming.


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> So I am just wondering if I am going to hear a good difference here....  I am using a Digital out (Component or SPDIF) out from my Marantz AV7702 preamp processor to RECON3d I bought last year to Musical Fidelity XCAN v2 to AKG712 pro headphones.  I'm wondering if the X7 would be the right answer for me.
> I don't have a DAC right now (except what is built into the RECON3D).
> 
> I honestly have not been very impressed with the REcon3d unit.  I am 100% movies, no gaming.


 
  
 Does your Marantz not have DH built-in?


----------



## MichaelJames99

nope.. only something called Virtual.  Which I have not even tried yet..I assume is crappy.


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> nope.. only something called Virtual.  Which I have not even tried yet..I assume is crappy.


 
  
 I wouldn't assume that.  Lots of companies that used to use licensed products have their own versions now that are basically the same thing but without a licensing fee (see SBX vs THX discussion above).  
  
 Personally, I think DH sounds crappy so it's a pretty low bar to hit.  You should give it a listen and see what you think.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I just listened to it.  Ughh....  Not good at all.  Not dynamic, no bass, poor surround


----------



## cdsa35000

michaeljames99 said:


> So I am just wondering if I am going to hear a good difference here....  I am using a Digital out (Component or SPDIF) out from my Marantz AV7702 preamp processor to RECON3d I bought last year to Musical Fidelity XCAN v2 to AKG712 pro headphones.  I'm wondering if the X7 would be the right answer for me.
> I don't have a DAC right now (except what is built into the RECON3D).
> 
> I honestly have not been very impressed with the REcon3d unit.  I am 100% movies, no gaming.



Did you ever changed the Recon3D default profile? those are horrible with many crappy overload "enhancements" activated like crystalizer, smartvolume etc.
Because you are using the DD optical input, you can customize and save 1 profile only through the PC sofware.
So you need to install Recon3D updated software/drivers/ (firmware update Recon3d) on PC.
Then you'll to disable any effect except enable only Surround with setting from 40 to 60% to you liking.
--
And at CINEMATIC tab, set DD Dynamic Range Control to Full (maximum), default was Normal=Compressed Audio heheh!


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> I just listened to it.  Ughh....  Not good at all.  Not dynamic, no bass, poor surround


 
  
 Ha!  Well at least you tried.
  


cdsa35000 said:


> Did you ever changed the Recon3D default profile? those are horrible with many crappy overload "enhancements" activated like crystalizer, smartvolume etc.
> Because you are using the DD optical input, you can customize and save 1 profile only through the PC sofware.
> So you need to install Recon3D updated software/drivers/ (firmware update Recon3d) on PC.
> Then you'll to disable any effect except enable only Surround with setting from 40 to 60% to you liking.


 
  
 Yeah, you can adjust all kinds of settings on the Recon by hooking it up to your computer and installing the drivers.  The trick is to be sure to SAVE the changes to the device when you're done.  If you don't, they will only stick in PC mode.  And updating the firmware never hurts.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I turned off the Crystalizer and saved my own profile.  Went thru the laptop to make the changes.
  
 Question: Do you have the link for the software?  Where is the firmware link?  I just bought this last year and probably have the latest of both but I might as well try.
  
 It sounds ok to me, but its not the wow factor I'm looking for.  Hoping the A7 might do that with everything integrated


----------



## cdsa35000

http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=1007&catName=Sound%20Blaster&subCatID=1009&prodID=20880&prodName=Sound%20Blaster%20Recon3D%20Omega%20Wireless&bTopTwenty=1&VARSET=prodfaqRODFAQ_20880,VARSET=CategoryID:1009

Click the "View All Downloads"


----------



## cdsa35000

Headphone Surround is Never a WOW factor for HIFI Headphones! Could be WOW for crappy headphones.
Because to create the surroundeffects, they just converting/transforming the audio multichannels into Out of fased and timedelayed audio, hence the "shrieking" treble/mids/bass as coming from a distant etc.

BTW: Is your version Recon3D have SBX!


----------



## Yethal

cdsa35000 said:


> Headphone Surround is Never a WOW factor for HIFI Headphones! Could be WOW for crappy headphones.
> Because to create the surroundeffects, they just converting/transforming the audio multichannels into Out of fased and timedelayed audio, hence the "shrieking" treble/mids/bass as coming from a distant etc.
> 
> BTW: Is your version Recon3D have SBX!


 
 Surround is ALWAYS a wow factor, especially when used for gaming. The first time I plugged my mixamp and booted black ops 2 I thought somebody installed 5.1 speakers in my room and that was with crappy steelseries 5hv2 headset.


----------



## Evshrug

cdsa35000 said:


> Headphone Surround is Never a WOW factor for HIFI Headphones!




Ah, THERE it is!
You're in the wrong thread.

This thread is about enjoying headphone surround with a wide range of headphones. You might be less alone on a different thread, or in a new thread if you think you have something new other people will want to talk about. Meanwhile, let's try not to derail new people who found this thread while searching for good headphones to use while gaming with virtual surround.


----------



## conquerator2

Maybe Hi-fi 'balanced' headphones are not as immersive or involving as mid/low-fi 'V-shaped' or 'bass tilted' cans, but they offer superior refinement and naturalness, which gives them a different wow factor [at least for me] - the illusion of being there. With precise, clean and realistic sound, it  may not offer the ultimate immersive experience, but it offers a different kind of experience, which is just as 'involving' in other ways... It's not like it will be a boring experience anyway 
  
 I think it is good to have both, but for now I only have one. IMO. YMMV. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Good thing is that decent mid-fi headphone can still offer a very solid and involving experience, no matter [slight] signature tilts. It is not like you'll be missing vital information as those headphones can already reproduce these well. Moving up the ladder is either the last few percents or getting an insight into a different experience [more analytic, etc.]


----------



## cdsa35000

michaeljames99 said:


> I turned off the Crystalizer and saved my own profile.  Went thru the laptop to make the changes....
> *It sounds ok to me, but its not the wow factor I'm looking for.  Hoping the A7 might do that with everything integrated*





evshrug said:


> Ah, THERE it is!
> You're in the wrong thread.
> This thread is about enjoying headphone surround with a wide range of headphones. You might be less alone on a different thread, or in a new thread if you think you have something new other people will want to talk about. Meanwhile, let's try not to derail new people who found this thread while searching for good headphones to use while gaming with virtual surround.



My remarks was in the context of his question, X7 wont magically give him the "wow" surround over his Recon3D. And he is using the DD optical in for movies.
Im happy with THX surround.


----------



## rudyae86

cdsa35000 said:


> Did you ever changed the Recon3D default profile? those are horrible with many crappy overload "enhancements" activated like crystalizer, smartvolume etc.
> Because you are using the DD optical input, you can customize and save 1 profile only through the PC sofware.
> So you need to install Recon3D updated software/drivers/ (firmware update Recon3d) on PC.
> Then you'll to disable any effect except enable only Surround with setting from 40 to 60% to you liking.
> ...


 
 Is the bold lettering true? I have been leaving it on Normal like for a year since I bought mine.
  
 DRC has me confused honestly......
  
 I actually have everything disabled with surround set between 67 and 70 percent.
  
 But I guess I will try setting DRC to FULL ( MAXIMUM) and see if I notice a difference.


----------



## conquerator2

rudyae86 said:


> Is the bold lettering true? I have been leaving it on Normal like for a year since I bought mine.
> 
> DRC has me confused honestly......
> 
> ...


 
 Yup, same. Will test too.


----------



## cdsa35000

rudyae86 said:


> Is the bold lettering true? I have been leaving it on Normal like for a year since I bought mine.
> 
> DRC has me confused honestly......
> 
> ...



Yes, its a volume normalizer for DD like the smart volume.
It'll fluctuate the dynamic volumelevel, makes softest sound louder and loudest sound softer as all will have almost the same volume.
Max= off


----------



## rudyae86

cdsa35000 said:


> Yes, its a volume normalizer for DD like the smart volume.
> It'll fluctuate the dynamic volumelevel, makes softest sound louder and loudest sound softer as all will have almost the same volume.
> Max= off


 
 huh....seems like that will be something new I learned today. Thanks for the pro tip


----------



## MichaelJames99

That sounds counter intuitive.  I would have thought that maximum would cause the most compression not the least compression!


----------



## rudyae86

michaeljames99 said:


> That sounds counter intuitive.  I would have thought that maximum would cause the most compression not the least compression!


 
 Do enlighten us with more details about this please.
  
 Im getting confused again


----------



## MichaelJames99

He is saying to set Dynamic Range Control to maximum.  It compresses the bottom end (low frequency) sound and variations in volume. That makes it so when you watch it at night there isn't as much bass and so there isn't as much of a change between very quiet scenes and loud ones. It's like night mode on many receivers.  In most cases though you want it turned off to get the "Full" dynamic range of the movie.   Putting it to maximum would be the most compression not the least.
  
 I may be completely wrong.  Going to try it out tonight


----------



## Stillhart

michaeljames99 said:


> He is saying to set Dynamic Range Control to maximum.  It compresses the bottom end (low frequency) sound and variations in volume. That makes it so when you watch it at night there isn't as much bass and so there isn't as much of a change between very quiet scenes and loud ones. It's like night mode on many receivers.  In most cases though you want it turned off to get the "Full" dynamic range of the movie.   Putting it to maximum would be the most compression not the least.
> 
> I may be completely wrong.  Going to try it out tonight


 
  
 No you're not setting the Control to maximum, you're setting the RANGE to maximum (which means control is turned off to give you the most range).


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> Yep, that's how he/she put themself out there. When SBX First came out, many people speculated that they might be the same, but some people on that thread tested it out and quantified it, so basically old news which is being challenged. Meh.
> Lol I wish I could post a sound bite simply on this website, I'd just record a short "meh" as my response. A hint of Kermit the Frog to the pronunciation, lol


 
  
 Indeed. I jumped on the SBZ the moment it was announced, just to do a comparison list of headphones between CMSS-3D, DH, THX and SBX. Every one of them sounded different, on the same headphone, on the same game, on the same standard 5.1 settings, and on the same volume (adjusted with a volume meter).
  
 So I still don't know how people can come around and say SBX = THX, or any other virtual surround tech sounds the same with one another. No matter if people hear things differently, there's a difference regardless. It's like listening to trumpets vs pianos.
  


evshrug said:


> ^yes, as I've observed with regular use that a year and a half makes a noticable alteration to the sound signature... Might be a good one though, like my more bassy 2.5 year-old Q701's were.
> 
> I have my Snowball Ice (the Cardioid only mic) on my desk and I sit back in my chair, people hear me well. I've also had it on a coffee table while I sat 2.5 feet back and people heard me pretty well, and embarrassingly I had a pretty long fart one night and they picked THAT up pretty well... XD


 
  
 The Blue Yeti was a ligtning deal on Amazon just a few hours ago, was snagged up so quickly that I missed it. Darn!
  
  


cdsa35000 said:


> Actually also based on the answers from Creative Reps said its just rebranding and the fact Creative never stated that SBX is different or better than THX, wouldnt that make be better marketing fuse if they said that SBX is way better than THX?
> And the Remarketing of the "new" SB Axx1 soundchip is exactly the same Core3D have the same chip partnr. CA0132 pcie and CA0136 usb, just because of SBX change.
> Show me any (official) statements/reviews that state SBX is different and better than THX!
> http://www.techpowerup.com/185395/creative-revises-sound-blaster-recon3d-with-sbx-pro-studio.html
> ...


 
  
 You talk to reps for confirmation? These same reps would tell you that the drivers for the SBZ/Zx and ZxR has been improved tremendously since its incarnation a couple of years ago. Are you going to believe that too? Because quite frankly, the only damn thing that has changed since the day 1 driver and the most receont driver is the date change.
  
 No, Creative has never actually gone on record to say SBX is different or better than THX. Wanna know why? Because on the release of the SBZ/Zx/ZxR, Creative was still in licensing deal with THX, at that very time when the SB Z series of products were launched,. The licensing deal expired last year, not before.
  
 Bet you're going to ask why then haven't they boasted SBX > THX since the deal was expired, like for the X7 perhaps? Well, do you see Dolby going up to Creative and giving them the big finger when CMSS3D was first made available to the public? You know, cause DH has been around longer than that. Are you seeing DTS going around giving sign languages to everyone in the industry because they belive DTS Headphone X is the best virtual surround tech ever made? No.
  
 Heck, as bad as Razer is with their "treat the gamers like idiots" mentality, even they didn't go on record to say Razer Surround > all.
  
 Here's the thing, you have not heard SBX and THX in person. You're basing your conclusions from reps who knows nothing, comments and "reviews" from Amazon or some product sites. Everything you've said is based off assumptions.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> No you're not setting the Control to maximum, you're setting the RANGE to maximum (which means control is turned off to give you the most range).




Hmm, I've been going on nornal for quite sone time... Tgough, when a gane allowed ne to tweak it, I always went to max there..
Either way, I will test this max too and see what it does .


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Hmm, I've been going on nornal for quite sone time... Tgough, when a gane allowed ne to tweak it, I always went to max there..
> Either way, I will test this max too and see what it does .


 
  
 Well I should clarify that I was just repeating what the other dude was saying.  I can't confirm whether it's correct or not.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Question... when the Recon3D is hooked up to the computer.. switch is over to PC and you go into Netflix, choose Dolby Digital Plus, why is the Dolby light not coming on the Recon3D?  I am also trying some 5.1 test files and the Dolby light is not coming on either... does it not pass 5.1?


----------



## rudyae86

michaeljames99 said:


> He is saying to set Dynamic Range Control to maximum.  It compresses the bottom end (low frequency) sound and variations in volume. That makes it so when you watch it at night there isn't as much bass and so there isn't as much of a change between very quiet scenes and loud ones. It's like night mode on many receivers.  In most cases though you want it turned off to get the "Full" dynamic range of the movie.   Putting it to maximum would be the most compression not the least.
> 
> I may be completely wrong.  Going to try it out tonight


 

 WEll appearently theres 3 options, Full, Normal, and Night........
  
 Night would be the obvious no no....Normal is to be expected to be used from the start but I would think there would be variations in sound change from loud noises turned low and low noises turned up. I havent tested it yet since I got stuff to do right now....might get to it tomorrow though but if you or anyone is trying it out, do lets us know and give us your opinion.


----------



## conquerator2

Sort of OT...
Well, this is great...
'Dear Lukas,

Thank you for contacting Creative.

Regarding your email, we regret to inform you that we stop delivery in Czech Republic by a business decision.

We hope that you can find another stores where to purchase the X7.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Regards,

Enrique
Creative Worldwide Customer Response'

Sigh, if any kind European is willing to do me a proxy anytime soon, it'd appreciated. As I have no idea when my local distributor/Amazon starts carrying it.
I'd pay the full price and shipping (It should be around 20 £|€) and you'll have my gratitude 
Thank you
Regards


----------



## Fegefeuer

I can order one for you via the German store.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> I can order one for you via the German store.


 
 I'd take you up on that offer :]
 Please shoot me a PM and we can discuss it further


----------



## Fegefeuer

I can't order it yet via the page, at least it's listed now (it wasn't yesterday). I'll inform you when it's available, of course you can notify me too.
  
 http://de.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> I can't order it yet via the page, at least it's listed now (it wasn't yesterday). I'll inform you when it's available, of course you can notify me too.
> 
> http://de.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7


 
 Roger dodger.
 Will try to keep an eye out as well. Would shoot you a PM :}
 And thanks :}


----------



## Fegefeuer

No problem,
  
 ideally they should allow me to send it directly to you. That would ensure a pre-Christmas delivery. Wouldn't that be nice? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Of course if I order it to me first then I'll send it out as fast as possible. 
  
 Please write a PM with your delivery adress, I wanna try something out now.


----------



## osirus35

What about the creative e5. It is not on par with the x7 but it has to be a lot better than an Astro mixamp and recon3D and is half the price of an X7 with SBX and console support


----------



## cdsa35000

benbenkr said:


> Indeed. I jumped on the SBZ the moment it was announced, just to do a comparison list of headphones between CMSS-3D, DH, THX and SBX. Every one of them sounded different, on the same headphone, on the same game, on the same standard 5.1 settings, and on the same volume (adjusted with a volume meter).
> ...
> Here's the thing, you have not heard SBX and THX in person. You're basing your conclusions from reps who knows nothing, comments and "reviews" from Amazon or some product sites. Everything you've said is based off assumptions.



My bad, you're right SBX should sound different. Only answer from the SBX software programmer 'll be more trustfuller.
An interesting thing with the Recon3D USB as it's a standalone DD decoder, so the THX and SBX algorithms should be both in the firmware as the lastest fw size is twice bigger than the first THX only fw.
Should be funny if someone can hack it, so you can select THX or SBX.


----------



## pathfindercod

Hello Everyone
   New here and found the thread by googling headsets etc.  I am sick and tired of gaming headsets. I have and have tried Razer Tiamata 7.1 with the onboard sound on my Asus Rampage IV motherboard, tiamat 2.2, sibyria's, gamecons and a few others.  Pretty much all junk IMO and really doesn't provide great positional audio for BF series or anything else.
  
   So from the great reviews on the fornt page here the AKG702's seem to be the GOD mode of audio.  I am concerned about being able to use them with other standard use as well and the sound being not as full.  The trade off is loose some of the sound stage and psotional audio and trade off for like the AKG712 pros? 
  
   I am looking o pair these with the new Sound Blaster x7 unless there is a better option? I am tiered of spending $50-$150 on junk headphones and cheesy amps they come with. I have spend more than the cost of the new setup over time on junk and just want to do it right this time.


----------



## Stillhart

pathfindercod said:


> Hello Everyone
> New here and found the thread by googling headsets etc.  I am sick and tired of gaming headsets. I have and have tried Razer Tiamata 7.1 with the onboard sound on my Asus Rampage IV motherboard, tiamat 2.2, sibyria's, gamecons and a few others.  Pretty much all junk IMO and really doesn't provide great positional audio for BF series or anything else.
> 
> So from the great reviews on the fornt page here the AKG702's seem to be the GOD mode of audio.  I am concerned about being able to use them with other standard use as well and the sound being not as full.  The trade off is loose some of the sound stage and psotional audio and trade off for like the AKG712 pros?
> ...


 
  
 If you want something a little better all-around than the K702, the K712 or K612 would both work for you; one costs 2-3x as much as the other so if budget is a concern, the choice there is simple.
  
 The X7 isn't out yet and nobody has gotten their hands on a review model yet so take all the talk with a grain of salt.  It looks good on paper, for sure.  Some of us are concerned that you're paying for a ton of functionality and if you're not gong to use it all, it's overpriced.  Others think it will be worth it even if you don't use all the bells and whistles, simply for the better DAC and Amp.  We'll know in a week or two when the reviewers get theirs.
  
 Me personally, I'd say just grab a Mixamp and a K612.  I think the K712 and X7 is overkill for gaming.  But if you are doing a lot of music and movies and bluetooth and powered speakers and NFC, I suppose that changes the value proposition a bit.


----------



## cdsa35000

stillhart said:


> No you're not setting the Control to maximum, you're setting the RANGE to maximum (which means control is turned off to give you the most range).



Yes, you're correct its about the Dynamic Range.


rudyae86 said:


> WEll appearently theres 3 options, Full, Normal, and Night........
> Night would be the obvious no no....Normal is to be expected to be used from the start but I would think there would be variations in sound change from loud noises turned low and low noises turned up. I havent tested it yet since I got stuff to do right now....might get to it tomorrow though but if you or anyone is trying it out, do lets us know and give us your opinion.



Nevermind that DD DRC options, they are useless and its NOT activated anyway as standalone DD decoder.
http://mp3doctor.com/mp3/audio-normalize/audio-normalization-mp3-dynamic-range-compression/
http://www.analog.com/en/content/relationship_data_word_size_dynamic_range/fca.html

DRC could be comparable as above graphs: Night: DR 30dB, Normal: DR 60dB, Full: DR max. (DRC=off).
----
DD DRC work only connected through the PC (mode) software together with DD(5.1) connected into the Optical Input and is meant for loudspeakers.
(DRC is bypassed when [* ]Surround is enabled).

-You know that way you can mix the Optical/AUX IN audio together with PC audio, so you can play consolegames with pc music etc.



michaeljames99 said:


> Question... when the Recon3D is hooked up to the computer.. switch is over to PC and you go into Netflix, choose Dolby Digital Plus, why is the Dolby light not coming on the Recon3D?  I am also trying some 5.1 test files and the Dolby light is not coming on either... does it not pass 5.1?



Dolby Digital (5.1) will ONLY work through the Recon3D Optical Input and so it'll never light up in the PC Mode. 
Dolby Copy(right) protection won't allow any digital copies thus not playable without extra decoding sofware.
---
Only if your PC/Laptop have a S/PDIF output and soundcard have DolbyDigitalLive (DDL) encoder. then you can bypass DD(5.1) to a DD Receiver etc.
---
You can use the ac3filter software to decode the DD5.1 audio into RAW PCM 5.1 streams that the PC soundcard can play.
http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/AC3Filter:Main_page


----------



## pathfindercod

stillhart said:


> If you want something a little better all-around than the K702, the K712 or K612 would both work for you; one costs 2-3x as much as the other so if budget is a concern, the choice there is simple.
> 
> The X7 isn't out yet and nobody has gotten their hands on a review model yet so take all the talk with a grain of salt.  It looks good on paper, for sure.  Some of us are concerned that you're paying for a ton of functionality and if you're not gong to use it all, it's overpriced.  Others think it will be worth it even if you don't use all the bells and whistles, simply for the better DAC and Amp.  We'll know in a week or two when the reviewers get theirs.
> 
> Me personally, I'd say just grab a Mixamp and a K612.  I think the K712 and X7 is overkill for gaming.  But if you are doing a lot of music and movies and bluetooth and powered speakers and NFC, I suppose that changes the value proposition a bit.


 
  
 Thank you for the input! The cost is a little concern but I wouldn't mind spending a little extra to do it right and not have to spend more later. Thank you again, Ill keep on searching some and try to make the best informed decision I can.


----------



## cdsa35000

michaeljames99 said:


> ...
> It sounds ok to me, but its not the wow factor I'm looking for.  Hoping the A7 might do that with everything integrated



If you are expecting for a virtual surround headphone that will sound exactly like a 5.1/7.1 loudspeaker setup, that won't ever happen, it can never simulate the far Front and Back direction sounds because there's only Left and Right directed speaker to your ears.
Its inherent to the virt. surround tech, to phaseshift every 5.1/7.1 audio channels into 2 channel stereo mix. to create the out of the head surround sound.
*These out of phase processing will always be present with these chirping/slissing/tin can/metallic/shrill/nasal/hollow sounding effects, the more surround intensity the louder these "side" effects.*
--
You can tweak instantly for the best surround settings with your Recon3D PC software together with the audio playing from the DD optical input.
Only these 5 settings Surround/Crystalizer/Bass/Smart Volume/Dialog Plus can be saved to the standalone device.
--
Its possible the Dolby Headphone is more suitable to your movies as DD is a movie standard audio. DH have more roomreverberation added in the surround sound, so could be better if you like the "theater" sounds.
You can listen to some DH samples on youtube to find out what you like etc.:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dolby+headphone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ROujJ8Ae8


----------



## rudyae86

Seems like theres a small review about the x7 on amazon. I think the person gave it a 3 star lol. Obviously he is ranting a bit about how overkil it is blah blah blah. Seems to be a PC only type of guy. Im sure for the multi use ( console and pc gaming) can benefit from the x7, as well as using passive speakers.


----------



## Fegefeuer

superficial review, and guy got not much clue


----------



## AxelCloris

Sometimes I hate when my mind connects dots that didn't need connecting. A friend was asking for headset recommendations under $80 to play WoW and in my mind I calculated that I'm playing WoW on a $1650 system. I paid nowhere near that, of course, but the realization is still crazy in comparison to the simple $65 headset I recommended. It was the HyperX Cloud, for anyone who may be curious.


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> Sometimes I hate when my mind connects dots that didn't need connecting. A friend was asking for headset recommendations under $80 to play WoW and in my mind I calculated that I'm playing WoW on a $1650 system. I paid nowhere near that, of course, but the realization is still crazy in comparison to the simple $65 headset I recommended. It was the HyperX Cloud, for anyone who may be curious.




Yup, great headset, alot of people are recommending it for the budget peeps that need something good but cheap. By now, everyone shpuld know this.

Either you turn your friends into the head fi forums or just recommend the hyper x and feel like you achieved something for the day lol


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Sometimes I hate when my mind connects dots that didn't need connecting. A friend was asking for headset recommendations under $80 to play WoW and in my mind I calculated that I'm playing WoW on a $1650 system. I paid nowhere near that, of course, but the realization is still crazy in comparison to the simple $65 headset I recommended. It was the HyperX Cloud, for anyone who may be curious.


 
  
 Yeah, my PC setup is in the $1200 MSRP range now. Yeah yeah, I'm also sorry about my wallet.  lol
  
 Still enjoying the HD700?


----------



## rage3324

If anyone is looking for original AD700s for gaming, I am selling a pair in the For Sale/Trade section. PM Me.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Sometimes I hate when my mind connects dots that didn't need connecting. A friend was asking for headset recommendations under $80 to play WoW and in my mind I calculated that I'm playing WoW on a $1650 system. I paid nowhere near that, of course, but the realization is still crazy in comparison to the simple $65 headset I recommended. It was the HyperX Cloud, for anyone who may be curious.




The simplicity and great sound of the HP200, plus the comfort of the alcantaras, is what keeps me from using/wanting anything else for gaming. Do you still use yours?

Edit: I did get the K7XX, but only because of the great deal at $200. Even so, the HP200 will remain to be my primary gaming cans for the reasons stated.


----------



## Stillhart

Well, I have to say, I'm rather impressed with the CAL!  For the price, these are a very very good sounding headphone.  Yes, they feel super cheap (seriously, I'm terrified to put these in my messenger back for the ride to work tomorrow!).  Yes, the cord is terrible (super thin, super short, non-removable).  Yes, they're a very small over-ear (kinda weird but not uncomfortable).  But it doesn't matter because the sound is very good.  
  
 Bass is on the heavy side without being over the top or too loose.  The bass blends in with the mids very well and the mids sound really really good.  The weak spot is the trebles, which sound severely rolled-off.  The overall sound is slightly warm but not a ton.  The soundstage isn't half bad for a closed can, too.  These are just a really nice all-arounder that's easy to drive and cheap.  
  
 I'm going to have to get my HP100 back from the wife to A/B these.  Just from memory, the HP100 already wins in build quality and comfort.  I can also say already that it has bass extension on these and a much more neutral sound (sub-bass hump instead of mid-bass).  But I want to listen back to back to hear how much of a difference there really is overall.  The CAL! is so much cheaper than even the refurbished HP100 that it could be my new go-to for a cheap closed all-arounder.
  
 For $50, this was quite a bargain!


----------



## apav

Hey all, finally in the market for my second pair of audiophile headphones!
  
 I own a DT 990 Pro 250 ohms, a Sound Blaster ZXR sound card, and I just purchased a CEntrance DACmini CX. I love my Beyers, but I understand that they are very "fun" headphones so I'm looking for something that sounds pretty different. I'd like to have variety, as much as I like my Beyers I just want the option to switch it up every now and again. Plus, as a budding audiophile, I'll be able to better understand sound terminology and the comparisons of headphones once I can hear all the little nuances between them. In terms of objective audio fidelity, I am looking for something a tier above my Beyers, so my budget is about $400-$500 max (that is to say I don't mind spending less). I am also considering just saving up for much more expensive headphones (like $1k max), but that'll take time until I can buy one, is not preferable and may not be worth it for me. Needless to say I will be using them for gaming as well. So something that is a fantastic all-rounder, super comfortable, and sound different enough from my Beyers?
  
 Any ideas? Thanks so much.


----------



## pathfindercod

Yes, Amazon has the x7 in stock fulfillment via creative directly. 

Another awesome deal for anyone interested is if you buy a AKG headset that is sold by Amaon directly you an additional 15% off. So I ended up getting a x7 and the 712pros. The 712's after the additional off ended up being $307 instead of $360 and being a Prime member I got overnight shipping for $4 and some change.

I'm not a audiophile by any means but really enjoy great sound from music and gaming and give my uneducated opinion off the setup when it all gets here today and have some time to play with it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

excellent choice


----------



## apav

pathfindercod said:


> Yes, Amazon has the x7 in stock fulfillment via creative directly.
> 
> Another awesome deal for anyone interested is if you buy a AKG headset that is sold by Amaon directly you an additional 15% off. So I ended up getting a x7 and the 712pros. The 712's after the additional off ended up being $307 instead of $360 and being a Prime member I got overnight shipping for $4 and some change.
> 
> I'm not a audiophile by any means but really enjoy great sound from music and gaming and give my uneducated opinion off the setup when it all gets here today and have some time to play with it.


 
 I just bought a CEntrance DACmini CX, but I have a Sound Blaster ZXR sound card. Kind of wish I got this guy instead


----------



## Stillhart

Can someone confirm, I thought I read that the X7 and the ZxR have the same DAC and Amp?  Or am I misremembering?


----------



## pathfindercod

The great big brown truck and white truck showed up. I am about to leave work early to go home and play.


----------



## benbenkr

stillhart said:


> Can someone confirm, I thought I read that the X7 and the ZxR have the same DAC and Amp?  Or am I misremembering?


 
  
 That is indeed true. It's basically an external ZxR though the X7 may have different op-amps. Not sure about that one.


----------



## Toxos

pathfindercod said:


> The great big brown truck and white truck showed up. I am about to leave work early to go home and play.


 
 Wait... X7 is available? or is that a review one? Can't wait to see what you say about it!


----------



## misobol

Would you consider Philips Fidelio X2 a better headphone then X1 for competitive gaming or having fun whilst gaming?
 I'd really love to hear your opinion on differences between X1 and X2 in that subject.
  
 Sorry for the duplicate, but can't wait to get an answer, whilst I think other post got lost in avalanche of replies.


----------



## pathfindercod

Yes sir! Amazon has them in stock as we speak...


----------



## rudyae86

misobol said:


> Would you consider Philips Fidelio X2 a better headphone then X1 for competitive gaming or having fun whilst gaming?
> I'd really love to hear your opinion on differences between X1 and X2 in that subject.
> 
> Sorry for the duplicate, but can't wait to get an answer, whilst I think other post got lost in avalanche of replies.




It would seem, from reviews, in terms of sound, the X2 would have that edge....by alot? Probably not. I owned the X1 and to me, it was still a good headphone for competitive fps. There are headphones that have a slightly more edge over the x1/x2 in terms of competitive fps. But overall, I feel that the x1/x2 can be an immersive headphone, yet be a competitive headphone for FPS...to a certain level of course. 

But just because you can pinpoint enemies better, doesnt always mean you will strike first....you have to see how well you work that controller or K/M, and how to really play the game.

Ever since I got my Recon3d and x1(its sold), My game did get much better, not so much competitively but more in immersion. To be honest, I can play without sound and still come up top 3 with a good KD (not bragging but its true). I am by no means perfect or an awesome player, but i can hold my ground very well.

But sound gets me so immersed that, every single aspect of the game and my set up, feels like evrything comes together in which, I am just havung so much fun when playing with friends.

So far right now Im leaning towards the competitive sound, since i dont have the x1 or any immersive headphone. Im actually using the Phillips SHP9500 and im quite surprised by its sound quality. Its actually good for competitive gaming although i have not compared it with the hd598 or ma900.... So i still have more listening to do.

So, in short words, i prefer to have a balanced headphone than an all out competitve fps type of headphone. Everyone is different...but as long as i can still hear footsteps or soldiers voices out loud (BF4)....i feel the x1 and x2 should do quite right for people that may feel the same way i do. I just cant wait any longer for my AKG K7XX


----------



## Fegefeuer

New Beyerdynamic T1 around 650€ from Amazon.fr


----------



## Toxos

pathfindercod said:


> Yes sir! Amazon has them in stock as we speak...


 
 Ok, so that made my day lol now I just have to wait for a couple of reviews before I buy


----------



## Stillhart

If anyone is on the fence about the X1 or X2, the X1 is on sale at Amazon right now for $189.


----------



## benbenkr

^$179 actually.
  
 Was a great lightning deal though, it's over now. $179 for the X1 is a no brainer btw.


----------



## carlosdz

Hi,
  
 I've been thinking on buying the Astro MixAmp Pro, the AD700x's and a modmic or any other mic, for using with Xbox One however I've searched a lot on the internet and still isn't clear to me, if it is possible to set game audio and friends voice to headphones and still use a mic, all I have found is that I could use Kinect as mic but I dont really like that idea. Is it possible?
  
 Thanks for the help.


----------



## Stillhart

carlosdz said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've been thinking on buying the Astro MixAmp Pro, the AD700x's and a modmic or any other mic, for using with Xbox One however I've searched a lot on the internet and still isn't clear to me, if it is possible to set game audio and friends voice to headphones and still use a mic, all I have found is that I could use Kinect as mic but I dont really like that idea. Is it possible?
> 
> Thanks for the help.


 
 The Xbox One is annoying in that it doesn't let you force headphones or speakers, it just picks for you.  I've found that different setups may or may not work they way I'd want and I've yet to narrow down what causes it to decide the wrong thing.
  
 That said, it works perfectly fine with my Mixamp 5.8.  You just have to make sure you buy the stupid headset adaptor for the controller and you run a cable from your Mixamp to the controller.  You can't use a mic over USB like with the PS4.


----------



## Qkzz

Hi i was looking too buy new headphones was wonderin wich ones is better AKG K701 or AKG Q701.
 I mainly use it for gaiming and music.
 and what mixamp or external sound card would you recomend for this headphones?
  
  
 Thank you =D


----------



## Stillhart

qkzz said:


> Hi i was looking too buy new headphones was wonderin wich ones is better AKG K701 or AKG Q701.
> I mainly use it for gaiming and music.
> and what mixamp or external sound card would you recomend for this headphones?
> 
> ...


 
  
 They're basically the same thing.  Get whichever you can find cheaper.
  
 Are you talking about using it on Xbox, PS or PC?


----------



## Qkzz

PC only.
 ok so i will go for the K701.
  
 and what mixamp or external sound card would you recomend?  (need it external cause i would use it on a laptop too)
  
 And thanks


----------



## Stillhart

qkzz said:


> PC only.
> ok so i will go for the K701.
> 
> and what mixamp or external sound card would you recomend?  (need it external cause i would use it on a laptop too)
> ...


 
  
 I'd recommend the Sound Blaster Omni.  Some people like one of the Asus Xonar ones so they can get DH instead of SBX.  I forget the model tho.


----------



## Qkzz

stillhart said:


> I'd recommend the Sound Blaster Omni.  Some people like one of the Asus Xonar ones so they can get DH instead of SBX.  I forget the model tho.


 
 Ok thanks man thats one of the ones i have been looking at and the Asus Xonar U7 but dont know wich one is better lets see if anyone else can help 
 Thank you for your help


----------



## carlosdz

Thanks a lot,
  
 I have a hard decision between expending around $300 dollars for optimal sound and a bunch of cables or buy the astro A50 for decent sound and mostly wireless. :/


----------



## TadE

Hey guys!
  
 So I'll be taking the plunge and getting an OPPO PM-1 and HA-1 soon. My question is this: How would I hook up the HA-1 to the ps4?


----------



## burritoboy9984

carlosdz said:


> Thanks a lot,
> 
> I have a hard decision between expending around $300 dollars for optimal sound and a bunch of cables or buy the astro A50 for decent sound and mostly wireless. :/




Steelseries H Wirless too. Slightly cheaper than a50s.


----------



## deanorthk

I'll never change my HD650 for gaming, as I really enjoy the sound signature, it's really nice to wear too.
 I use it with a xonar U7, but..
 My ultimate goal is to have a product where I could plug my PS4/PS3 and my pc, and benefit from surround gaming from there.
 For music,I have other stuff so it's no concern.
 Movies could be a plus that's obvious though.
 So the X7 might be a good product if the surround sound from pc gaming, and PS4 or PS3 is handled.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The X7 handles them all.


----------



## Spartoi

So the background noise at higher volumes on my Mixamp Pro is annoying me. If I leave it half way (12 o' clock position) the hiss is gone/unnoticeable but then the volume on my X2s are kinda low for my taste. I tried connecting my FiiO E10K to the Mixamp and that to my X2 but then even at max volume on the E10K the volume was MUCH lower than the volume output of the mixamp alone. 
  
 Is there an alternative to the Mixamp Pro that doesn't hiss or a better amp to use with it than my E10K? My DSS also has background noise at high levels so that isn't an option either.


----------



## conquerator2

spartoi said:


> So the background noise at higher volumes on my Mixamp Pro is annoying me. If I leave it half way (12 o' clock position) the hiss is gone/unnoticeable but then the volume on my X2s are kinda low for my taste. I tried connecting my FiiO E10K to the Mixamp and that to my X2 but then even at max volume on the E10K the volume was MUCH lower than the volume output of the mixamp alone.
> 
> Is there an alternative to the Mixamp Pro that doesn't hiss or a better amp to use with it than my E10K? My DSS also has background noise at high levels so that isn't an option either.


 
 The Recon3D USB does best with regards to noise. It is quieter but you can pretty much max the volume on it as the noise does not increase [so you can go even louder in theory]. It uses SBX instead of DH and that is something to consider too [more accurate, but less cinematic. it can be tweaked a lot though].
 That is if you want to keep it on the cheap, if you wanna go all out, then the X7, obviously.
  
 EDIT: OK... the Recon3D sure went up in price! I'll probably be selling mine when I receive the X7 for a more reasonable price. Interested people can shoot me a PM to reserve it


----------



## Spartoi

How's the sound quality on the Recon3D vs Mixamp Pro? I find the Mixamp Pro (and DSS) quite lackluster but if the Recon3D can at least match them then I might consider switching. Are there any issues with using the Recon3D with a headphone + BoomPro mic?


----------



## conquerator2

spartoi said:


> How's the sound quality on the Recon3D vs Mixamp Pro? I find the Mixamp Pro (and DSS) quite lackluster but if the Recon3D can at least match them then I might consider switching. Are there any issues with using the Recon3D with a headphone + BoomPro mic?


 
 I don't think there're any issues with the BoomPro mic.
 The SQ is at least a match, if not better than the Mixamp Pro.
 There's better clarity and imaging at the expense of some 'fun' factor. You can of course tweak it via a PC software and some settings also transfer to consoles


----------



## cdsa35000

Both will need a real headamp with own powersupply to sound good and less noise/hiss like this one use same TPA6120A2 as in X7 with S/N 120dB.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Y7S3QY
http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-sApII-TPA6120A2-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00J2PJQ0O





[/quote]

Why not hear it Surround tech for yourself on youtube?
The latest "best" sounding is SBX without too much room reverberation added like Dolby Headphone (DH is designed for DD movies).
If you dont want to hear reverberation=not realistic when you're FPS rambo is walking on the grass/sandbank openfield then SBX is the choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGbf--jR3HQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NirHR5l9AU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpLUlD20z8
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sbx+dolby


----------



## conquerator2

I would stay away from SMSL, unless their quality improved in the last few months.
I think Topping is a better purchase. They make many fine products.


----------



## Stillhart

I love my Recon, but I'll caution that it's difficult to control the game/chat balance compared to the Mixamp.  I also found that the Mixamp works more consistently with the Xbox One than the Recon did.
  
 There are plenty of portable amps out there to help your volume: Fiio E12, JDS Labs C5, Cayin C5, etc etc.  I use an E11 when I need a little boost, but it's not super powerful so I still have to turn the Mixamp up enough to hear some hiss, which then gets amplified.  I'd suggest getting something beefy like the E12 if you don't want to hear the hiss.


----------



## bavinck

I use the Schiit Magni to boost my phones when needed using the mixamp pro. Works really well, but I do need to keep the volume on the mixamp lower than half or else the hiss just becomes a problem like Stillhart said.


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> I use the Schiit Magni to boost my phones when needed using the mixamp pro. Works really well, but I do need to keep the volume on the mixamp lower than half or else the hiss just becomes a problem like Stillhart said.


 
 I use the same combo with mixamp turned all the way up and there is no audible hiss in my cans.


----------



## conquerator2

+1 for the Cayin C5. Low & high gain, lots of gain and power


----------



## bavinck

yethal said:


> I use the same combo with mixamp turned all the way up and there is no audible hiss in my cans.


 
 What headphones are you using? The hiss is there, everyone I have heard from using the mixamp complains about it. Apparently the 2011 model is not as bad for hiss but still present if that is what you have.


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> What headphones are you using? The hiss is there, everyone I have heard from using the mixamp complains about it. Apparently the 2011 model is not as bad for hiss but still present if that is what you have.


 
 I use Sennheisers HD598 plugged into the 2013 mixamp. I noticed that the amount of hiss varies depending on the power source, try plugging the usb cable into Your PC and see if there's a difference.
  
 When I plugged the headphones straight into the mixamp and turned the volume knob all the way up then I did hear the hiss, but with the headphones plugged through the Magni it could be heard only with amp's volume turned all the way up which was much too loud for me. I usually keep my Magni's volume between 9 and 10 o' clock.


----------



## bavinck

Hmm, I am using it with a ps4 so I need to use the USB for chat. I have a HD600 that I will experiment with this tonight on and see if the magni can help.


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Hmm, I am using it with a ps4 so I need to use the USB for chat. I have a HD600 that I will experiment with this tonight on and see if the magni can help.


 
 Not really, You can buy a PS4 chat cable and plug it between the controller and the x360 port on the mixamp. Then You can plug the USB into the PC (That's what my setup looks like) and use it for Skype or mixing audio from pc and console while gaming (i.e watching youtube walkthrough while gaming)


----------



## BigBadWulf

Ahh Yethal,
 I forgot the say thank you for the mod. It works fine. I can not say, if the soundstage has increased, but I think, the bass did.
  
  
  
 @all the others.
 As a PC gamer, the X7 wouldn`t be a big increase to a SB ZXR or what do you think? I would only use it for PC gaming.


----------



## Stillhart

bigbadwulf said:


> Ahh Yethal,
> I forgot the say thank you for the mod. It works fine. I can not say, if the soundstage has increased, but I think, the bass did.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends on whether you want to use any of the additional connectivity.  Sound-wise, they should be about the same...


----------



## Spartoi

I know this isn't the PC thread but I think you guys can help answer this question:
  


spartoi said:


> What would be the best combination:
> 
> FiiO E10K
> 
> ...


----------



## conquerator2

spartoi said:


> I know this isn't the PC thread but I think you guys can help answer this question:


 
 I'd go the SBZ - Magni [maybe even the newly announced Magni 2, improved for the same price, or Magni Uber for slightly more :}] road for sure.
 Should sound better than the E10K and you'll probably appreciate all the extra features/flexibility of a dedicated amp


----------



## Stillhart

Lots of people eager to pay $150 for the Modi 2 Uber.  I have to hold my tongue to not hop in that thread and tell them to just get an Omni for the same performance at half the price.
  
 Magni 2 looks pretty BA tho.  That's a lot of power for not a lot of money.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Lots of people eager to pay $150 for the Modi 2 Uber.  I have to hold my tongue to not hop in that thread and tell them to just get an Omni for the same performance at half the price.
> 
> Magni 2 looks pretty BA tho.  That's a lot of power for not a lot of money.


 
 If you have use for an optical or coaxial input, I think it's a good value still.
 If you want it for USB only, I wouldn't hold my breath for much improvement, besides the aluminum chassis


----------



## Evshrug

cdsa35000 said:


> Both will need a real headamp with own powersupply to sound good and less noise/hiss like this one use same TPA6120A2 as in X7 with S/N 120dB.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Y7S3QY
> http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-sApII-TPA6120A2-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00J2PJQ0O




Two things to keep in mind: 
1. two amps could use the same opamp chip, but measure and sound differently depending on the amp's overall design and power supply. Another amp with the same OpAmp is the FiiO E9 (and newer version E09k), reviewers test them an a few have pointed out that they don't fully take advantage of the TPA6120A2 chip (but the E9 is definitely a decent amp still). The SMSL you pointed out may be good too, I haven't heard it.

2. The X2 will probably have tighter bass and bettery dynamics with an amp, but decent volume straight out from the recon3D USB. you may need a small adapter to split the tip of the Boompro Cable into audio and mic plugs, if the cable or Recon3D don't already come with one. I've bought two recon3Ds in the past, definitely my personal favorite of the "classic" gaming surround processors, but right now individual units are pretty marked up in price and Creative is only selling them bundled with a wireless headset (which you can still use the processor with other headphones, it just comes with the wireless syncing module and headphone).

Still awaiting shipment of my X7, review in-bound.


----------



## Spartoi

Guess I'll get the Magni 2 since its the same price. Thanks everyone.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Now going back to the Mixamp Pro vs. Recon3D, I don't know what to believe. Mad Lust Envy says they're 75% of the mixamp (meaning worse) but others are saying they at least match the Mixamp Pro.


----------



## Evshrug

spartoi said:


> Guess I'll get the Magni 2 since its the same price. Thanks everyone.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Now going back to the Mixamp Pro vs. Recon3D, I don't know what to believe. Mad Lust Envy says they're 75% of the mixamp (meaning worse) but others are saying they at least match the Mixamp Pro.




Mad prefers Dolby Headphone over SBX. He also likes that DH rolls off the highs a bit, and 12 o'clock rear cues work better for him. SBX is less distorted and more precise imaging IMO. Really, they're basically on the same level DAC wise, minor trade-offs in the amps for the Recon3D (less gain/weaker amp/cleaner output and better for double-amping) and Mixamp (more gain but more grain/noise, output power is shared with chat so max output decreases as you add chat volume). The Mixamp has chat volume mixing, but the recon3D has mic gain boosting (kinda redundant on the PS4 but cool on PC and PS3). Recon3D can process surround from USB input, so it's a more "true" PC sound card while also being an optical surround processor for consoles.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Still awaiting shipment of my X7, review in-bound.


 
  
  
 Why you no have Prime 2-Day shipping?


----------



## Evshrug

It was supposed to arrive mid-week, but post sucks in our area (several mail hubs were closed nearby, funneling all traffic to one overworked hub, bad experience for everyone and delays likely). Once I get it, I may leave a few first impressions but the review will happen after spending some hours getting to know it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, no? I have almost no experience with SBx outside of a few demos. I prefer DH over THX, mostly due to the better rear positional cues and better off angle imaging. I was actually quite impressed with the SBX demos, and I feel would probably be my fave if I had a device with it.

One thing that differentiates DH with the others is that it doesn't sound like you're wearing headphones. Yes, it's a jarring difference, but one that must be taken into account when comparing to THX, CMSS, etc. So of course, when listening to headphones, the others aren't so far from what you would expect out of a headphone, while DH doesn't follow that path. That's the mistake people make when trying to judge DH when they've been so used to a standard headphone experience. It's much too different.

For me, it provides the virtual sound space that puts me in the action, compared to the other DSPs that sound like headphones with a very good soundstage, but headphones nevertheless. That may be a good thing for others, as it will sound like what you're used to with your headphones, but I like the dramatic difference in going from a headphone to something more like speakers around you.

Yes, DH sounds more processed. It should be obvious, considering it's simulating something it isn't: a room full of speakers. Once you understand this, and let your brain adjust, DH is a wonderful experience. It isn't perfect, but it does a damn good job.


----------



## Yethal

Modi 2 and Magni 2. Damn, 3 months after I bought my Modi&Sys. Well, I'll just have to wait for reviews to see whether it's worth the money.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Modi 2 Uber just sounds awesome, as the most cost effective DAC out, with all three digital inputs. We have the E17 as the alternative, but it's too portable and doesn't look that nice on a desk with all it's cables going in and out of it to another amp.

As for Magni 2, I'll hold reservations since I don't particularly care for the fast, dry sound that Schiit SS amps tend to have. The Vali is my fave amp of theirs by a long stretch. Prefer it over the Lyr, Asgard 2, and Magni. Not sure how the Magni 2 Uber will differ from Schiit's typical SS house sound. If it sounds closer to the Vali without the microphonics and noise floor.... then OMG. But the Vali is tubes, so I doubt that.


If Schiit ever manages to make a Vali 2 with an output impedance of 2-3or less, and less microphonics/noise floor, with tubes that last as long as the Vali's tube (10,000-20,000 hours), then I'll buy it in an instant. The Vali is special, despite it's drawbacks. Not sure the Magni 2 will be better, IMHO.


----------



## rudyae86

And here Im reading about new products coming up and I already told myself to not spend more.....well, should have thought of that before joining the head fi forums lol.

I might get the modi 2 uber later on though and then maybe a tube amp later next year....

And then maybe the x7 for christmas


----------



## Yethal

Well, they finally added a gain switch and preamp outs so all the cons listed on the first page of this thread suddenly are no longer valid.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Modi 2 Uber just sounds awesome, as the most cost effective DAC out, with all three digital inputs. We have the E17 as the alternative, but it's too portable and doesn't look that nice on a desk with all it's cables going in and out of it to another amp.
> 
> As for Magni 2, I'll hold reservations since I don't particularly care for the fast, dry sound that Schiit SS amps tend to have. The Vali is my fave amp of theirs by a long stretch. Prefer it over the Lyr, Asgard 2, and Magni. Not sure how the Magni 2 Uber will differ from Schiit's typical SS house sound. If it sounds closer to the Vali without the microphonics and noise floor.... then OMG. But the Vali is tubes, so I doubt that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yet the Modi is still using the same "just okay" DAC chip.  I dunno, before I actually tried the Modi, I'd have been pretty psyched about this announcement.  But knowing the sound is no better than my sound card, I just can't get worked up over it.
  
 Regarding the Vali 2, Jason pretty clearly stated in today's announcement thread that there isn't going to be one (at least not anytime soon) when someone asked.


----------



## Change is Good

Now I know why I never joined any drops from MD, before. These long waits really do suck


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A DAC chip is just a part of the equation. Many DACs use the same chip yet are different. For example, the Sabre ES9018 is used on cheaper DACs, and the highest end DAC out, IIRC. Don't assume the Modi 2 will just be OK because of its DAC chip.


----------



## pebuzerA

hello, I bought ear force DSS2 and I'm using with my superluxhd681, very battlefield 4 game on xbox one, which equalizer setting and nice to put? and the AD700 is good at DSS2? and it supports other cool headphone as a dt880, akg Q701, K701, k712?


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> A DAC chip is just a part of the equation. Many DACs use the same chip yet are different. For example, the Sabre ES9018 is used on cheaper DACs, and the highest end DAC out, IIRC. Don't assume the Modi 2 will just be OK because of its DAC chip.


 
 Okay then I'll assume it because I've heard the Modi and because the price hasn't changed and because it's using the same chip and because Schiit has no motivation to make the Modi sound better since it's by far the most recommended DAC on this site and because many people couldn't hear a difference between the Modi and the Bifrost so I can't imagine it's suddenly going to sound better than their mid-tier DAC.
  
 But you're right, it's still an assumption.  It could end up being very good and then I'll eat my hat.  Until then, I'll keep recommending the NFB-15 as an option that costs marginally more than the Schiit stack but sounds significantly better.  Oh and the cost difference goes away if you want the Uber versions for the extra connections (connections that the NFB-15 has too).  In fact, I am fairly confident that the NFB-15 is cheaper than the Magni 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber.


----------



## Evshrug

pebuzera said:


> hello, I bought ear force DSS2 and I'm using with my superluxhd681, very battlefield 4 game on xbox one, which equalizer setting and nice to put? and the AD700 is good at DSS2? and it supports other cool headphone as a dt880, akg Q701, K701, k712?




Equalizer settings are for your personal taste. In Battlefield4, in sound settings set the output to home cinema. The AD700 is pretty good with almost anything, I had a DSS and not a DSS2, but if they have similar output power then it will at least be a decent starting point with plenty of volume for all those headphones you mentioned (my DSS did fine with my DT880 600 ohm)


----------



## PacoTaco

fegefeuer said:


> HD 800 is a total waste if you buy it for gaming alone, especially pairing a Mixamp with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I agree. That's why I just use a magni and a he-400 with my Xbone. Once you take the cups out and give it new pads, it really does about the best as you can get short of the K702. I keep the T1 and the LCD 2 for my PC use, where it does actually make a more significant difference (like Titanfall's uncompressed audio.)


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Equalizer settings are for your personal taste. In Battlefield4, in sound settings set the output to home cinema. The AD700 is pretty good with almost anything, I had a DSS and not a DSS2, but if they have similar output power then it will at least be a decent starting point with plenty of volume for all those headphones you mentioned (my DSS did fine with my DT880 600 ohm)




Has anyone actually figured out which settings in BF4 are the best when using headphones and SBX/THX/DH?

In BF4, im using Headphone and Surround and sounds good to me. But I have not tried using Home Cinema. I know War Tapes is perhaps meant for more immersion and hearing your weapon sound louder than everything else.....


----------



## crocandy

Does anyone know where you can get a Vmoda Boompro in the UK? Amazon only have 1 listing and it's around £45. EBay has a listing from China so I'm giving that a miss. My only other option is from Vmoda with international shipping charges. Thanks.


----------



## draven5494

My X7 is due to be delivered tomorrow. I will post impressions as soon as I get it.


----------



## SaLX

crocandy said:


> Does anyone know where you can get a Vmoda Boompro in the UK? Amazon only have 1 listing and it's around £45. EBay has a listing from China so I'm giving that a miss. My only other option is from Vmoda with international shipping charges. Thanks.


 
  
 Seriously, £45? I got mine ages ago for I think £22 from Amazon UK. They must be very low on stock atm, thus the silly markup. Try going to _Amazon.com_ and I bet you'll get it much cheaper from there (the US site will estimate the import charges to import to Britain). I bet maybe £28 tops perhaps? It's a lot, but I'm well impressed by that mic, and it's a far more elegant solution than the Modmic (extra cables=not good). It's got a highish internal resistance though, so swap it out if you're seriously into music.
  
 BTW, hi all, especially Evshrug, Feg, Purple etc  [Evs - you still streaming?]


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Has anyone actually figured out which settings in BF4 are the best when using headphones and SBX/THX/DH?
> 
> In BF4, im using Headphone and Surround and sounds good to me. But I have not tried using Home Cinema. I know War Tapes is perhaps meant for more immersion and hearing your weapon sound louder than everything else.....



Headphone+surround uses BF4's built in VSS and outputs processed stereo, so you're basically doubling effects (and your Z is basically just faking surround effects on a stereo source). I would expect that to sound like mud-city, but if you like it then you like it. Hi-Fi is like a stereo HiFi system, home cinema actually will share a multichannel surround signal.





salx said:


> Seriously, £45? I got mine ages ago for I think £22 from Amazon UK. They must be very low on stock atm, thus the silly markup. Try going to _Amazon.com_ and I bet you'll get it much cheaper from there (the US site will estimate the import charges to import to Britain). I bet maybe £28 tops perhaps? It's a lot, but I'm well impressed by that mic, and it's a far more elegant solution than the Modmic (extra cables=not good). It's got a highish internal resistance though, so swap it out if you're seriously into music.
> 
> BTW, hi all, especially Evshrug, Feg, Purple etc  [Evs - you still streaming?]



Uh, I haven't done it in awhile. I need to do some personal-time catching up today (laundry, put my K712, M100, and E12 on the FS thread, contact Creative to see if they have a traking number for my delayed X7, resist buying a hydroponic indoor garden, etc), and I'm bowling at 7 US Eastern, but I might be able to hop on for awhile... Possibly play some more The Last Of Us.





draven5494 said:


> My X7 is due to be delivered tomorrow. I will post impressions as soon as I get it.



You lucky 8@$74R|], I'm pretty sure my US Postal Service lost mine which was supposed to arrive mid-last week. Hope you love it though.


----------



## SaLX

> ..........buying a hydroponic indoor garden


 
  
 Yup - we know what that's for


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Headphone+surround uses BF4's built in VSS and outputs processed stereo, so you're basically doubling effects (and your Z is basically just faking surround effects on a stereo source). I would expect that to sound like mud-city, but if you like it then you like it. Hi-Fi is like a stereo HiFi system, home cinema actually will share a multichannel surround signal.
> Uh, I haven't done it in awhile. I need to do some personal-time catching up today (laundry, put my K712, M100, and E12 on the FS thread, contact Creative to see if they have a traking number for my delayed X7, resist buying a hydroponic indoor garden, etc), and I'm bowling at 7 US Eastern, but I might be able to hop on for awhile... Possibly play some more The Last Of Us.
> You lucky 8@$74R|], I'm pretty sure my US Postal Service lost mine which was supposed to arrive mid-last week. Hope you love it though.


 

 What headphone will you be using with the X7 when it arrives?


----------



## draven5494

evshrug said:


> You lucky 8@$74R|], I'm pretty sure my US Postal Service lost mine which was supposed to arrive mid-last week. Hope you love it though.




It was actually just delivered.  

I wasnt expecting Sunday delivery but I'm not complaining. I should have time to hook it up and test it out. I'll post impressions when I get a chance.


----------



## NoWayJose

I'm interested in the X7 since it has a coupon that brings it down to 280 but was wondering if you can use a mic on it when connected to consoles and get chat audio?


----------



## rudyae86

draven5494 said:


> It was actually just delivered.
> 
> I wasnt expecting Sunday delivery but I'm not complaining. I should have time to hook it up and test it out. I'll post impressions when I get a chance.




Amazon now delivers on Sundays. Isnt that great?  

I think mainly because of the holidays. Last year alot of people didnt get their gifts due to time constriants and what not. But even then.....domt order on the 23rd expecting your stuff to be delivered on the 25th


----------



## GODJOEY

Trying to find the best closed back headphones for gaming on console. Tried the ad700's they are great but my family can hear the chaos so I need closed backs. I tried the Cal's they are also very good but I really like the ad700's. Seeing akg550 and ATH-A900X , any other suggestions? Thank you!


----------



## Stillhart

godjoey said:


> Trying to find the best closed back headphones for gaming on console. Tried the ad700's they are great but my family can hear the chaos so I need closed backs. I tried the Cal's they are also very good but I really like the ad700's. Seeing akg550 and ATH-A900X , any other suggestions? Thank you!


 
 SoundMAGIC HP100 is another good option for Closed.


----------



## rudyae86

I wanna say that if u like the ad700 sound, you should try out the a900x. Although it will have more bass and a smaller sounstage compared to the ad700


----------



## conquerator2

draven5494 said:


> It was actually just delivered.
> 
> I wasnt expecting Sunday delivery but I'm not complaining. I should have time to hook it up and test it out. I'll post impressions when I get a chance.




Come on! 
'anticipation intensifies'


----------



## Evshrug

salx said:


> Yup - we know what that's for :wink_face:



Um, basil and salad, because my roommate doesn't eat greens that aren't inside the meals his mom drops off for him, so I always end up throwing away spoiled baggies of salad from the grocery store? Maybe some flowers to attract the girlfriend 




martin vegas said:


> What headphone will you be using with the X7 when it arrives?



Well, I can try quite a few once it arrives! I could try it with those For Sale headphones, but mainly I'm interested in seeing how it goes with my K612, HD700, and Stax SR-X MKIII. I think others would find impressions with those interesting!




draven5494 said:


> It was actually just delivered.
> I wasnt expecting Sunday delivery but I'm not complaining. I should have time to hook it up and test it out. I'll post impressions when I get a chance.



Wow, really? You give me some hope, let me check the front door!
Edit: nope... 




nowayjose said:


> I'm interested in the X7 since it has a coupon that brings it down to 280 but was wondering if you can use a mic on it when connected to consoles and get chat audio?



Where is this coupon, or do you mean you have a gift card? Share the luv, please!
By the way, it has a 3.5mm mic jack if you want to use your own mic, BUT it has a built-in Beamforming mic so you don't NEED a separate mic... I haven't looked at the setup steps for the Xbox One yet, but for Playstations and computers the setup would be super clean and probably quite decent even for using a standard pair of Bluetooth headphones (MEElectronics has a new one ~$90 that is getting very positive reviews) if you aren't sitting too far from the mic.


----------



## NoWayJose

evshrug said:


> Where is this coupon, or do you mean you have a gift card? Share the luv, please!
> By the way, it has a 3.5mm mic jack if you want to use your own mic, BUT it has a built-in Beamforming mic so you don't NEED a separate mic... I haven't looked at the setup steps for the Xbox One yet, but for Playstations and computers the setup would be super clean and probably quite decent even for using a standard pair of Bluetooth headphones (MEElectronics has a new one ~$90 that is getting very positive reviews) if you aren't sitting too far from the mic.


 
 There's a coupon on creative's website for 30% off. It doesn't show it on the page but when you add it to your cart it'll show the discount.


----------



## Evshrug

nowayjose said:


> There's a coupon on creative's website for 30% off. It doesn't show it on the page but when you add it to your cart it'll show the discount.




Nope, I can't see any coupon other than the free shipping, nothing automatically gets applied when I add the X7 to my cart. Link?

*EDIT EDIT EDIT!!!*
RetailMeNot helped me find an even better coupon, code HOHOHO3


----------



## NoWayJose

evshrug said:


> Nope, I can't see any coupon other than the free shipping, nothing automatically gets applied when I add the X7 to my cart. Link?


 
 In my cart, it automatically added this coupon code HOHOHO3. Did you go to the actual cart page because that's where it shows up.


----------



## Evshrug

nowayjose said:


> In my cart, it automatically added this coupon code HOHOHO3. Did you go to the actual cart page because that's where it shows up.




I actually realized just now you weren't talking about $30 off... but $120 off! Woah!


----------



## bavinck

Great deal, but no shipping to Canada.


----------



## Elf-1

Mixamp Pro 2013 vs Mixamp 2011. Which one would you choose and why?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If only Creative would give a definitive answer on the X7's output impedance. I dont want guesses. I want an answer.

Tyll posted a pretty good article on output impedance quite recently, and what it does. No matter how you slice it, too high an impedance will negatively affect a headphone's sound.

$280 sounds quite tasty for what the X7 does, but that final road block is a big one for me. If Im gonna spend the money on such a great product, i wanna ensure that it makes my headphones sound as good asbit can be on it, not worse than its inherent prowess.


----------



## draven5494

Ok, I had time to hook up the X7 and briefly test it from my PC and PS4. 

First impressions when taking it out of the box - it's a good looking piece of kit. A mix of matte and glossy black is a classy combo in my opinion. So yeah, it looks good sitting on my desk and I'm sure im going to get a few "what is that?" questions when people come over.

On to the packaging and accessories, this thing came with no less than 7 power cables. I'm pretty sure I'm covered for any type of outlet if I feel inclined to travel around the world with it. 

After finding the right power cord (I hope) and hooking it up to my PC I installed the X7 software. It's pretty much the standard fare Creative software with a somewhat nicer interface. All of the SBX options are there.

I first tested the X7 with my HD598s. I listened to some music first. After turning off all of the Crystalizers and Surround effects, I can say it sounds good, very good. My previous setup was an ODAC and Burson Soloist and while I haven't had time to do a direct comparison, I'm quite certain the X7 isn't lagging far behind if at all when it comes to music. 

Of course this is a video game thread so I then proceeded to hook it up to my PS4 using the optical connection. When I turned my PS4 on I still had my PC playing music through the unit, I could hear the PS4 audio and the PC audio at the same time. So, one could listen to their favorite music from their PC while playing PS4 games if so inclined. It's not really a feature I would use a lot but I thought it was kind of nifty.

My impression of just the PS4 audio is a bit of a mixed bag right now. The good news is that the audio from the PS4 is the clearest I've heard yet. It sounds quite nice and is definitely a leap up from the Sony Gold headset. Now, the not so good part - It seems there is no surround effect when running optical from the PS4 to the X7. Now, i haven't had a lot of time to troubleshoot that part and there may be a way to do it. I just know that when I hook up my DSS to my PS4 I get Dolby Surround. The effect is noticeable. With the X7, I can tell that the Dolby surround effect is nearly non-existent. It just sounds like stereo sound with hard pans from left to right. Like I said though, I may be doing something wrong or need to enable something on the X7 but I haven't been able troubleshoot it. 

That's about it for now. I'm going to do some more tinkering with the PS4 and I took some pics that I will post later as well.


----------



## conquerator2

bavinck said:


> Great deal, but no shipping to Canada.


 
 So is it for the US store only?
 Does it not apply to EU and other subsidiaries of the Creative website?


----------



## benbenkr

mad lust envy said:


> If only Creative would give a definitive answer on the X7's output impedance. I dont want guesses. I want an answer.
> 
> Tyll posted a pretty good article on output impedance quite recently, and what it does. No matter how you slice it, too high an impedance will negatively affect a headphone's sound.
> 
> $280 sounds quite tasty for what the X7 does, but that final road block is a big one for me. If Im gonna spend the money on such a great product, i wanna ensure that it makes my headphones sound as good asbit can be on it, not worse than its inherent prowess.


 
  
 10ohms. It's not a guess, it's written there by Creative. Uses the same TI TPA6120A as the ZxR.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad,
What headphones do you even have anymore? Oh right, the "easy to amp" X2. Well, I recommend looking up the impedance change over frequency chart for it. TI recommends for their OpAmp used in the X7 to have a 10 ohm output resistor in place, but it's possible that it has a different rating in the X7.


Draven,
Well, you've beaten a guy who has been waiting since this summer to the punch of first review, but still those are good-to-know impressions. I tip my hat to you.

The soloist is a pretty heavy-duty amp, right? Impressive that the X7 seems basically equal at first impression to your regular setup. I bet your regular setup will reveal some improvements over the X7 in time, but for gaming I suspect you've reached a practical summit with the X7.

I noticed that the Recon3D could play two sources simultaniusly too... Kinda neat sometimes, but I guess even better that you have the option of leaving them plugged in.

Ps4 surround: first question, you turned off SBX Surround on your PC, did you turn it back on for the PS4? Things happen sometimes in excitement! Also make sure the PS4 is still set to bitstream Dolby and all that.

Speaking of X7 settings, did you try the mobile app yet? Should let you adjust things without switching back to the PC, test surround % on the fly. Try it at 100% just to see if it makes a difference, and save the profile settings to lock them in place. The recon3D USB required you to save the profile before disconnecting from a computer to have the THX TruStudio settings take hold for console use.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> 10ohms. It's not a guess, it's written there by Creative. Uses the same TI TPA6120A as the ZxR.




Where is it written? IIRC, didn't the ZxR have like 43 ohms output impedance? I wouldn't automatically assume the X7 will have the same implementation as the ZxR, even if they share parts.


----------



## draven5494

evshrug said:


> Mad,
> What headphones do you even have anymore? Oh right, the "easy to amp" X2. Well, I recommend looking up the impedance change over frequency chart for it. TI recommends for their OpAmp used in the X7 to have a 10 ohm output resistor in place, but it's possible that it has a different rating in the X7.
> 
> 
> ...




You're probably right about the Burson, the X7 may not quite be up to its level. It is a fantastic amp but was $1000 when I bought it. Even if the X7 comes close it's already worth it my book. It's an all-in-one unit that can replace most of my separate pieces. 

As for the SBX, you know, you're probably right. I may have forgotten to turn it back on. So, that's probably the issue. I will test it and report back. Thanks for the heads up on the app as well. That will definitely come in handy.


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> Where is it written? IIRC, didn't the ZxR have like 43 ohms output impedance? I wouldn't automatically assume the X7 will have the same implementation as the ZxR, even if they share parts.


 
  
 Wait, no. The Z/Zx is the one that has 43ohms, but that is at its peak. The ZxR is 10ohms.
 You're right, implementation might be different on the X7 eventhough they share the same headphone amp. I'm making that assumption because many amps that uses the TPA6120A has come around 8-10ohms most of the time.


----------



## Spartoi

How does the SB X7 handle headphones + mic? I know the X7 has a built in mic but if I wanted to use my Boom Pro with my Fidelio X2 could I do that?


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> Wait, no. The Z/Zx is the one that has 43ohms, but that is at its peak. The ZxR is 10ohms.
> You're right, implementation might be different on the X7 eventhough they share the same headphone amp. I'm making that assumption because many amps that uses the TPA6120A has come around 8-10ohms most of the time.



Ok thanks! And yes, I've noticed that about some web-specs of Amos using the TPA6120 too, but I think a large part of that is because TI recommends it (to prevent DC current or something?). I'm not a big fan of the Guy, but He-WhoMust-Not-Be-Named mentioned in his E9 review that there could be ways to not need a 10 ohm output resistance.





spartoi said:


> How does the SB X7 handle headphones + mic? I know the X7 has a built in mic but if I wanted to use my Boom Pro with my Fidelio X2 could I do that?



Well, I think my Recon3D and Omni came with an adapter to combine the mic and headphone jacks into one TRRS plug like you would need for the BoomPro. Creative's usually pretty thorough about useful cables/accessories (lol@ Draven's power cables!), but even if it wasn't included the adapter is cheap and widely available. In fact, did the BoomPro come wi any accessories?


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> Ok thanks! And yes, I've noticed that about some web-specs of Amos using the TPA6120 too, but I think a large part of that is because TI recommends it (to prevent DC current or something?). I'm not a big fan of the Guy, but He-WhoMust-Not-Be-Named mentioned in his E9 review that there could be ways to not need a 10 ohm output resistance.


 
  
 Do you think Creative would bother tweaking the TPA6120 to be anything less than 10ohms though? Because knowing them, everytime they use something off the shelf they just stick everything together and call it a day (I'm exaggerating, but you get what I mean).
  
 I've been using Creative's products since 2004, so that's 10 years of history with them and I do know their ways of creating new products each time (laziness, because consumers don't know better sort of attitude). There were a few exceptions of course.
  
 I'd obviously be very happy if they had actually done anything different this time though.


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> Ok thanks! And yes, I've noticed that about some web-specs of Amos using the TPA6120 too, but I think a large part of that is because TI recommends it (to prevent DC current or something?). I'm not a big fan of the Guy, but He-WhoMust-Not-Be-Named mentioned in his E9 review that there could be ways to not need a 10 ohm output resistance.
> Well, I think my Recon3D and Omni came with an adapter to combine the mic and headphone jacks into one TRRS plug like you would need for the BoomPro. Creative's usually pretty thorough about useful cables/accessories (lol@ Draven's power cables!), but even if it wasn't included the adapter is cheap and widely available. In fact, did the BoomPro come wi any accessories?


 
  
 The BoomPro comes with the cable you describe but I'm not sure if SB X7 will recognize it properly. I had this issue with the DSS but not the Mixamp Pro. So I was wondering how the X7 will handle it.


----------



## draven5494

Evshrug, you were right. I installed the X7 app and turned on SBX surround while using the PS4. Let me say, this is an awesome feature. Being able to change the settings on the fly without using my PC is very handy. Kudos Creative.

Once I turned it on and set it to 100%, I could hear the SBX Surround effect and let me say, it's quite impressive. Within 5 seconds of turning it on I knew I preferred it to the Dolby surround on my DSS. It's nice and clear and the imaging is precise. Good stuff.

Thanks for the help!

Now, i just need to figure out how to get mic chat working through the PS4 while using the X7. I had so many issues trying to get this to work when I used the DSS that I gave up on it and just used my Sony Gold headset when I wanted to chat. If I can get that working reliably with the X7, I will be very happy.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> Do you think Creative would bother tweaking the TPA6120 to be anything less than 10ohms though?



Well the 10 ohms doesn't come from the chip itself. It probably will have 10 ohms, but maybe maybe 




spartoi said:


> The BoomPro comes with the cable you describe but I'm not sure if SB X7 will recognize it properly. I had this issue with the DSS but not the Mixamp Pro. So I was wondering how the X7 will handle it.



Well the DSS doesn't have a 3.5mm mic input, only a USB passthrough. The Recon3D worked perfectly via USB and optical to the PS4, I'm sure they thought it through.




draven5494 said:


> Evshrug, you were right. I installed the X7 app and turned on SBX surround while using the PS4. Let me say, this is an awesome feature. Being able to change the settings on the fly without using my PC is very handy. Kudos Creative.
> 
> Once I turned it on and set it to 100%, I could hear the SBX Surround effect and let me say, it's quite impressive. Within 5 seconds of turning it on I knew I preferred it to the Dolby surround on my DSS. It's nice and clear and the imaging is precise. Good stuff.
> 
> ...



Plug the USB into the PS4, it'll automatically recoignize it as a USB mic. There should be a map included that illustrates the setup?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Nope, I can't see any coupon other than the free shipping, nothing automatically gets applied when I add the X7 to my cart. Link?
> 
> *EDIT EDIT EDIT!!!*
> RetailMeNot helped me find an even better coupon, code HOHOHO3


 
 Tried it, it isnt working anymore....?
  
 
  





  
 Why is this happening to me....
  
 Now I feel like I want to return my Sound Blaster Z, sell my Recon3D and buy this instead.......if the coupon actually worked.
  
  
 But I guess it doesnt anymore. Tried looking for the X7 on the list of what products are eligible for the discount...and it seems they took the x7 out of that list.....
  
 boooo creative.....booooo lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

Output impedance is 8 or 40 Ohms, depending on the Switch position.

HOHOHO3 doesn't work in the EU


----------



## Spartoi

HOHOHO3 coupon doesn't work anymore.  
  
 I'm in the US.


----------



## wilflare

this is gonna be awkward amidst all the X7 discussion (though I should check out the price locally). 

I'm currently using the Fidelio X1. I recently bought the HD598 thanks to the Amazon Lightning Deal. Intended for my brother so he can upgrade from his Steelseries but he doesn't want. 

So the question is - is it worth keeping or the 598? or should I sell my X1? I probably can only keep 1 of the two


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That kills the X7 for me. I mean, for $280, I would've went for it but 10ohms right now is not something want. The X2 is gonna be my main headphone, and at 30-ish ohms, sensitive at that, it doesn't make sense to get the X7.


What specifically irritates me is how these amps are made to use headsets which are almost always low ohm and sensitive.

Can't have everything, even if they got close.

I prefer the X1 over the 598 every single time. They sound quite different so just choose which you like more.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't know, to me it seems these amps (ZxR, X7) are made with the Beyer/Sennheiser mindset of the "last" generation (DT880, 990, 600/650) as in generally harder to drive "high end" with high impedance. Not sure if my English makes sense here.


----------



## draven5494

evshrug said:


> Plug the USB into the PS4, it'll automatically recoignize it as a USB mic. There should be a map included that illustrates the setup?


 
 I'll give that a shot later to see.  Thanks again for the help.
  
 Here are a few pics I took when I unboxed it yesterday.  Yes, almost all of the cords in the last pic are power cords.  You can also see the headphone 'stand'.  I tried it, didn't like it.  It's pretty flimsy and not quite tall enough.  I just looks kind of odd sticking out of the top of the unit as well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There it is, that impedance switch.


----------



## draven5494

Yes, there is an impedance switch on the back.  It's 4ohms or 8ohms.
  
 Here is a closeup of the switch:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never mind, the impedance switch is for the speaker output, not headphone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Doh, I read 8-40 in an earlier post in another forum. So it's really 4-8. That's quite different. And much better too. 
  
 I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK. IT'S MADE FOR ALL OF YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES GUYS.


----------



## draven5494

mad lust envy said:


> Hmmmmm... if you guys can get me the X7 for those $280... I'm in.
> 
> 
> 4ohm is critical damping for 32ohm headphones, so it's PERFECT. 8ohm would be ideal for all the AKG 700 series.
> ...


 

 I don't know if the $280 deal is still available.  It irks me a little that I missed that deal, but to me it's worth the $400 I paid for it. 
  
 I should be able to recoup most of the cost by selling the gear that it will replace.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, they just lost a sale.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> "Kickass 100w* Stereo Amplifier"




A high power, high efficiency Class-D digital amplifier TPA3116D2 delivers up to 100W power (2 x 50W @ 4Ω*), allowing you to connect to passive bookshelf or tower speakers.* The Sound Blaster X7 features an impedance switch to select between 4Ω and 8Ω to match your speakers to deliver the best audio performance.*"


Excitement has dissipated entirely. I'm pretty certain the impedance switch is for the *SPEAKER* output, not the headphone one. I'm willing to bet it's the typical 10ohm for headphones. Meh.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn I'm on a negative roll today.
  
 Time for the HD 800 to avoid a potential mismatch


----------



## draven5494

mad lust envy said:


> A high power, high efficiency Class-D digital amplifier TPA3116D2 delivers up to 100W power (2 x 50W @ 4Ω*), allowing you to connect to passive bookshelf or tower speakers.* The Sound Blaster X7 features an impedance switch to select between 4Ω and 8Ω to match your speakers to deliver the best audio performance.*"
> 
> 
> Excitement has dissipated entirely. I'm pretty certain the impedance switch is for the *SPEAKER* output, not the headphone one. I'm willing to bet it's the typical 10ohm for headphones. Meh.


 

 Yes and to add to this, it looks like you have to purchase a separate AC adapter to get the full 100w for external speakers as well.


----------



## phobia337

Hey MLE or anyone else,
  
 I figure from what I have seen from you, you also game on the PS4 and PC? Reason I ask, I decided to grab a pair of HD598s and I need assistance on which Amp/Dac to get which will work with my setup. 
  
 I have my PS4 and PC both setup on a computer desk. I game on a 27" Samsung monitor, so both my PS4 and PC are with in 3 feet of each other. I'm trying to figure out what is the simplest route to go, which I can use the 598s on my PS4 and PC with the best sound. I know the Astro Mix Amp works for the PS4, but not sure if I want to go with VR surround or just a good amp to drive good stereo.
  
 I was thinking maybe a Fiio E17? I'm not sure if it will work with PS4 or PC though. I also don't know if this is the easiest route. Is there a way to run the PS4 output to the PC then just run headphones from PC, then this way I can run headphones from one locating for both devices?
  
 I'm rambling, just trying to find the most cost effective route to go. Hope this helps explain my situation.


----------



## misobol

mad lust envy said:


> That kills the X7 for me. I mean, for $280, I would've went for it but 10ohms right now is not something want. The X2 is gonna be my main headphone, and at 30-ish ohms, sensitive at that, it doesn't make sense to get the X7.
> 
> 
> What specifically irritates me is how these amps are made to use headsets which are almost always low ohm and sensitive.
> ...


 
 Hi
 And how would you rate X2 for gaming? Is it similar good experience as with X1?
 I wonder how they do with Dolby Headphone?


----------



## wilflare

mad lust envy said:


> That kills the X7 for me. I mean, for $280, I would've went for it but 10ohms right now is not something want. The X2 is gonna be my main headphone, and at 30-ish ohms, sensitive at that, it doesn't make sense to get the X7.
> 
> 
> What specifically irritates me is how these amps are made to use headsets which are almost always low ohm and sensitive.
> ...




thanks!
I'll prefer something with a good sound stage, allowing for clear vocals. 

I have tried the X1 thus far. It's a little tight at the top of my head (I have a really big head...) and the ear cups get a little warm after awhile but other than that, it's really comfortable and good thus far. 

I have yet to open the HD598. unless it's a definite upgrade, I would prefer to keep it sealed and sell it off. It does look bigger than the X1 on first look (from the box). Seems to be quite comfortable too! but I'm not too sure.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







 Getting this gaming monitor for my ps4!


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Hey MLE or anyone else,
> 
> I figure from what I have seen from you, you also game on the PS4 and PC? Reason I ask, I decided to grab a pair of HD598s and I need assistance on which Amp/Dac to get which will work with my setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The easiest solution would be a Sound Blaster Recon3D (or X7, very different price point).  You plug the USB into your computer and the optical into your PS4, then you just flip a switch on the side of the unit (in the case of the Recon) to swap between PC and PS4.  Make sure the USB is plugged into an always-on port if you plan on playing PS4 with the PC turned off.
  
 AFAIK, there's no way to pass your audio thru from the PS4 to the PC and still get surround.
  
 There are other options that will sound better but involve more money and cables.


----------



## BigBadWulf

144Hz for PS4? Okay. Better buy a bigger TV with a quick repsonse time. Sorry for OT, back to Topic.


----------



## Stillhart

I have a BenQ 24" that I've had for a few years (like quite a few).  It was one of the best at the time I bought it.  It's got major banding issues now tho.  Sooner or later I'm going to have to stop spending money on headphone gear so I can get a nice IPS monitor.  :-D


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> The easiest solution would be a Sound Blaster Recon3D (or X7, very different price point).  You plug the USB into your computer and the optical into your PS4, then you just flip a switch on the side of the unit (in the case of the Recon) to swap between PC and PS4.  Make sure the USB is plugged into an always-on port if you plan on playing PS4 with the PC turned off.
> 
> AFAIK, there's no way to pass your audio thru from the PS4 to the PC and still get surround.
> 
> There are other options that will sound better but involve more money and cables.


 
 You think this is a better option than a Fiio E17?
  
  


stillhart said:


> I have a BenQ 24" that I've had for a few years (like quite a few).  It was one of the best at the time I bought it.  It's got major banding issues now tho.  Sooner or later I'm going to have to stop spending money on headphone gear so I can get a nice IPS monitor.  :-D


 
 I'm running the Samsun S27D590P. Its their version of a IPS, with their "PLS" technology. Even though the monitor has a higher ms time of 8ms, I notice no ghosting . It has beautiful color and I take advantage of the AVS HD 709 calibration software every couple months to keep my games looking their best. Now its time to match the sound with the visuals.
http://www.samsung.com/levant/consumer/computers-peripherals/monitors/led-monitor/LS27D590PS/ZN


----------



## phobia337

wilflare said:


> thanks!
> I'll prefer something with a good sound stage, allowing for clear vocals.
> 
> I have tried the X1 thus far. It's a little tight at the top of my head (I have a really big head...) and the ear cups get a little warm after awhile but other than that, it's really comfortable and good thus far.
> ...


 
 How much you would like for the 598s, I'm looking for a pair. PM if interested


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> You think this is a better option than a Fiio E17?
> 
> 
> I'm running the Samsun S27D590P. Its their version of a IPS, with their "PLS" technology. Even though the monitor has a higher ms time of 8ms, I notice no ghosting . It has beautiful color and I take advantage of the AVS HD 709 calibration software every couple months to keep my games looking their best. Now its time to match the sound with the visuals.
> http://www.samsung.com/levant/consumer/computers-peripherals/monitors/led-monitor/LS27D590PS/ZN


 
 The E17 won't give you surround.  This thread is all about gaming with surround so yeah, I think the Recon is a better option than the E17.  :-D
  
 If you want it to have similar functionality but sound better, the X7 is probably the next easiest option.  After that you're getting into things like buying a sound card for your computer and a Mixamp/Recon/DSS for your PS4 and then running them into a switch and then into an amp.
  
 I'm not looking into monitors anytime soon, but I find it amusing that you're worried about ghosting at 8ms.  I've been gaming since well before LCD panels so I don't even pay attention to refresh rate anymore since all monitors are so absurdly good these days (also, they all lie about their refresh rates by using interesting math).  The big thing I look for is input lag.  Monitors with too much processing will have a lot of input lag.  Samsung is generally one of the major offenders with adding way too much processing to their TV's.  I don't know how their monitors are...


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> The E17 won't give you surround.  This thread is all about gaming with surround so yeah, I think the Recon is a better option than the E17.  :-D
> 
> If you want it to have similar functionality but sound better, the X7 is probably the next easiest option.  After that you're getting into things like buying a sound card for your computer and a Mixamp/Recon/DSS for your PS4 and then running them into a switch and then into an amp.
> 
> I'm not looking into monitors anytime soon, but I find it amusing that you're worried about ghosting at 8ms.  I've been gaming since well before LCD panels so I don't even pay attention to refresh rate anymore since all monitors are so absurdly good these days (also, they all lie about their refresh rates by using interesting math).  The big thing I look for is input lag.  Monitors with too much processing will have a lot of input lag.  Samsung is generally one of the major offenders with adding way too much processing to their TV's.  I don't know how their monitors are...


 
 I've been gaming since the early 80s and things have changed, not always for the better (Take PS2 keyboards for instance but that is a whole other rant).
  
 When it comes to PC monitors, anything above 8ms response time has a chance for ghosting depending on manufacturer and of course other variables. Generally you want 5ms or lower for a gaming monitor, but I sacrificed response time for accurate color production of IPS.
  
 So its far from amusing and I'll use this line to explain "*I've been gaming since well before LCD panels so I don't even pay attention to refresh rate anymore since all monitors are so absurdly good these days*". CRT monitors which were BEFORE LCD were better in many ways for gaming. Their response times are extremely low (1ms or under), their color production was better at 32 bit and their black levels deeper, and they also have no "native resolution" so no image quality lose depending on res used which allowed for system flexibility with your current hardware.
  
 If you would purchase a IPS monitor which can have response times in the 14 to 16ms, I promise you will see a lot of ghosting. IPS is generally more used in the marketing image editing areas where they want accurate color production and don't need fast response times. 
  
 On topic,
 Much debate could be had on if virtual surround is better than just good ol stereo amp correctly.


----------



## GODJOEY

phobia337 said:


> I've been gaming since the early 80s and things have changed, not always for the better (Take PS2 keyboards for instance but that is a whole other rant).
> 
> When it comes to PC monitors, anything above 8ms response time has a chance for ghosting depending on manufacturer and of course other variables. Generally you want 5ms or lower for a gaming monitor, but I sacrificed response time for accurate color production of IPS.
> 
> ...


 

 IPS has gotten much better now, 5ms gtg and 8-9 input lag.  
 Is sennheiser pc350 closed backs better at sound cues than say an AKG550 or Audio Technica a900x? Thank you


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> On topic,
> Much debate could be had on if virtual surround is better than just good ol stereo amp correctly.


 
  
 Perhaps, but this thread is literally dedicated to virtual surround.  If you just want good ol stereo, you don't need this guide.
  
 Regarding monitors, I'm not prepared to get into a debate.  I apologize if you took my amusement personally; I am amused when anyone feels they must have a PERFECT visual experience to enjoy a game.  I gamed just fine with lots of ghosting for years after CRT went the way of the dinosaur.  I am also one of those weirdos who can't tell 30fps from 60fps without seeing them side-by-side.  I also don't care if a game has the bestest graphics with the most p's and fps's.  I had a plenty good time playing my Infogrames text games and Sierra games in CGA (320x200, 4 colors).
  
 Your needs are your own and far be it from me to judge whether they're right or wrong.  I'll still be amused tho, sorry.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> I don't know, to me it seems these amps (ZxR, X7) are made with the Beyer/Sennheiser mindset of the "last" generation (DT880, 990, 600/650) as in generally harder to drive "high end" with high impedance. Not sure if my English makes sense here.



Makes sense to me. X7 is a high end processor for high end home-use headphones.




fegefeuer said:


> There it is, that impedance switch.



I thought that was the impedance selector switch for 4 ohm or 8 ohm passive speakers?




wilflare said:


> this is gonna be awkward amidst all the X7 discussion (though I should check out the price locally).
> I'm currently using the Fidelio X1. I recently bought the HD598 thanks to the Amazon Lightning Deal. Intended for my brother so he can upgrade from his Steelseries but he doesn't want.
> So the question is - is it worth keeping or the 598? or should I sell my X1? I probably can only keep 1 of the two




Awk! They're kinda opposite/complimentary sounds. The HD598 is tilted more towards mids/treble with lighter bass and more soundstage, while the X1 is bass-emphasized. The $110 deal on the HD598 is the stronger value, but do whatever you're happier with... I might keep both if I didn't have better.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Perhaps, but this thread is literally dedicated to virtual surround.  If you just want good ol stereo, you don't need this guide.
> 
> Regarding monitors, I'm not prepared to get into a debate.  I apologize if you took my amusement personally; I am amused when anyone feels they must have a PERFECT visual experience to enjoy a game.  I gamed just fine with lots of ghosting for years after CRT went the way of the dinosaur.  I am also one of those weirdos who can't tell 30fps from 60fps without seeing them side-by-side.  I also don't care if a game has the bestest graphics with the most p's and fps's.  I had a plenty good time playing my Infogrames text games and Sierra games in CGA (320x200, 4 colors).
> 
> Your needs are your own and far be it from me to judge whether they're right or wrong.  I'll still be amused tho, sorry.


 
 No I didn't take anything personally, just was explaining that ghosting does exist. I was under the impression you were saying ghosting does not happen and didn't want to see people take that wrong, go out buying a high end IPS which is designed for graphic editing and not gaming. 
  
 I also thought this thread was for using headphones for consoles/PC gaming, didn't see it dedicated to virtual surround sound. Being that my knowledge on the sound side is extremely limited, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how exactly to hook up theses devices (amp/dac) to a console. Compound that with hopefully to daisy chain PC and PS4 together plus throw in these virtual surround processors, it can be little head spinning on what is good options.
  
 So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> No I didn't take anything personally, just was explaining that ghosting does exist. I was under the impression you were saying ghosting does not happen and didn't want to see people take that wrong, go out buying a high end IPS which is designed for graphic editing and not gaming.
> 
> I also thought this thread was for using headphones for consoles/PC gaming, didn't see it dedicated to virtual surround sound. Being that my knowledge on the sound side is extremely limited, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to how exactly to hook up theses devices (amp/dac) to a console. Compound that with hopefully to daisy chain PC and PS4 together plus throw in these virtual surround processors, it can be little head spinning on what is good options.
> 
> So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones?


 
  
 I believe you want to use the USB for power and then use the optical connection to get your sound from the console to the DAC/Amp.  (E17 has optical input, right?) This will get you stereo audio only, no chat.  
  
 I don't _personally _see the advantage in this as you can just plug your headphones right into the controller if you want stereo sound and I don't think the DAC adds much when gaming.  Adding a standalone amp like the E09k or E12 will probably be noticeably beneficial depending on your choice of headphones.
  
 There is a PC gaming guide as well, if you want to hit that up later.  We're pretty easy-going about discussing all kinds of topics related to gaming in this thread tho.  I was just saying that if you wanted to debate the pros and cons of virtual surround, you're going to have a tough time in this thread; most of us are aware of the cons and still think surround is worth the cost/effort.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Damn I'm on a negative roll today.
> 
> Time for the HD 800 to avoid a potential mismatch :evil:



Or HD700, DT880 250 ohms or up, DT990 250 ohms and up, any of the AKGs positioned at the model K601 and up/newer, V-MODA M-100, etc...




phobia337 said:


> ...
> So based off that, how does say a FiiO E17 hook up to a PS4? Just plug in USB and Headphones?



Well, the FiiO has battery so you can use that or USB for power, then just connect the E17 with optical to the PS4 and set the ps4 to output audio settings as PCM (stereo). On PC you could use either USB or optical. Just remember that the E17 has no DSP for surround.

You're like NamelessPFG, he held on to a Sony HD CRT for years, but within the past month it finally bit the dust and parts are basically gone. It so happens that I do graphic design from time to time, so I accept the IPS trade-off, but since my Asus doesn't have any prettifying processing it has negligible input lag and has far far less ghosting than other IPS I've seen... And some TN panels have advanced a long way with dark levels and gamut range, time has helped the new tech gain back some of the advantages of old tech.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> I believe you want to use the USB for power and then use the optical connection to get your sound from the console to the DAC/Amp.  (E17 has optical input, right?) This will get you stereo audio only, no chat.
> 
> I don't _personally _see the advantage in this as you can just plug your headphones right into the controller if you want stereo sound and I don't think the DAC adds much when gaming.  Adding a standalone amp like the E09k or E12 will probably be noticeably beneficial depending on your choice of headphones.
> 
> There is a PC gaming guide as well, if you want to hit that up later.  We're pretty easy-going about discussing all kinds of topics related to gaming in this thread tho.  I was just saying that if you wanted to debate the pros and cons of virtual surround, you're going to have a tough time in this thread; most of us are aware of the cons and still think surround is worth the cost/effort.


 
 Well doesn't the DS4 use blue tooth or something like that to pass the stereo signal? Wouldn't that cause decrease sound quality. I also tried my 60 ohm HD 280s on the controller but with no amp they are so low you can barely hear anything. So this is why I'm thinking something like the E17, it has optical in which I need for the PS4, plus I can use it on the go also. I also looked at the E09k but only saw RCA analog connections so I was not sure how I would make that work with the PS4. 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Or HD700, DT880 250 ohms or up, DT990 250 ohms and up, any of the AKGs positioned at the model K601 and up/newer, V-MODA M-100, etc...
> Well, the FiiO has battery so you can use that or USB for power, then just connect the E17 with optical to the PS4 and set the ps4 to output audio settings as PCM (stereo). On PC you could use either USB or optical. Just remember that the E17 has no DSP for surround.
> 
> You're like NamelessPFG, he held on to a Sony HD CRT for years, but within the past month it finally bit the dust and parts are basically gone. It so happens that I do graphic design from time to time, so I accept the IPS trade-off, but since my Asus doesn't have any prettifying processing it has negligible input lag and has far far less ghosting than other IPS I've seen... And some TN panels have advanced a long way with dark levels and gamut range, time has helped the new tech gain back some of the advantages of old tech.


 
 You are absolutely correct, time has helped and just recently in the last 5 years or so have the IPS panels dropped the response times to acceptable levels. Now, I've been without a CRT for a long long time now, and went from a TN to the IPS. Now with that said, I still think from the competitive side it is hard to beat a 1 to 2ms VA or TN panel. For me, accurate colors in sports titles like Madden 2015 is important to me because I want to see the 49ers real red uniforms or the right Seahawks lime green. While I can deal with the slower the response time, the one area I dislike is the black levels on IPS/PLS is just not to plasma levels yet. Hope we see some improvements there in the coming years.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Well doesn't the DS4 use blue tooth or something like that to pass the stereo signal? Wouldn't that cause decrease sound quality. I also tried my 60 ohm HD 280s on the controller but with no amp they are so low you can barely hear anything. So this is why I'm thinking something like the E17, it has optical in which I need for the PS4, plus I can use it on the go also. I also looked at the E09k but only saw RCA analog connections so I was not sure how I would make that work with the PS4.


 
  
 Yes, you lose some sound quality in theory when it passes the wireless signal to the controller.  But if the source material isn't great to begin with, how much are you really losing?  Even if it is amazing source material, I'm generally not listening critically when I'm playing; I'm concentrating on other things unless I'm listening for specific audio cues (like chests in Destiny or footsteps in CoD).
  
 So like I said, personally for me, if you're going with stereo, I'd go with the easiest solution.  If the controller is too quiet, you hook it up to a portable amp like the E11 or E12 and you're golden.  The E17 can act as an amp or a DAC/Amp, I believe, so it's versatile.  I just wouldn't expect miracles from the SQ.


----------



## conquerator2

Eizo FS2333 is a fine example of a gaming IPS monitor done right.
I absolutely love it and don't see myself parting with it anytime soon


----------



## martin vegas

conquerator2 said:


> Eizo FS2333 is a fine example of a gaming IPS monitor done right.
> I absolutely love it and don't see myself parting with it anytime soon


 

 What did you do with the Samsung syncmaster you had? I am thinking of getting a brix mini pc just for reading chat on twitch while I am streaming and using the syncmaster for that and gaming on my ps4 with the ben q!


----------



## rudyae86

Im using a 27inch VA BenQ monitor for both gaming amd watching movies. I like the colors and the blavks on VAs and my input lag is still in the low 12ms. Ghosting is not appearent either even though its 4ms GTG.

I had an IPS before that and like the rich color it produced but the the black looked more like a faded black...kind of like how blavk sweaters look after a while of use, purple-ish and faded.

I really do hope IPS make an improvement in the next 2 years because I really like vibrant colors


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> Makes sense to me. X7 is a high end processor for high end home-use headphones.


 
  
 Pfft. The super cheap Omni isn't at the universal 3ohm or lower output impedance either... and that's targeted at gamers who use gaming headsets, which majority are at 32ohms.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> Pfft. The super cheap Omni isn't at the universal 3ohm or lower output impedance either... and that's targeted at gamers who use gaming headsets, which majority are at 32ohms. :blink:



Universal 3 ohm?? You could go up to FOUR OHMAGERDs! But there's no standard about these things.
Makes more sense to use higher end headphones with the higher end X7... but yeah, I don't even know what the Omni's output impedance is. I think that output impedance is only starting to be understood and more widely observed by Joe Public, and even then our 1/8 "rule of thumb" is a general blanket statement that has varying effects on different headphones and is talked about in a way akin to stories told to frighten children. It does have an effect, but not universally, and not universally objectionable to each person.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stillhart, just because my gaming impressions for the headphones are surround related, the reviews themselves are based on the headphone's own sound, not related to surround (that section is specifically in the soundstage/positioning sub sections of the reviews).


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Stillhart, just because my gaming impressions for the headphones are surround related, the reviews themselves are based on the headphone's own sound, not related to surround (that section is specifically in the soundstage/positioning sub sections of the reviews).


 
 Never meant to imply otherwise, my apologies.


----------



## GODJOEY

Nice I also have a Benq xl2420z it has very low input lag, according to tftcentral they benched it at 1ms input lag. I picked up an input lag tester and tested everything in my house.
  
 https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.862733130438692.1073741848.145046292207383&type=3
  
  
 Like that Asus 27" but don't know how the pixelation is at 1080p.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> Never meant to imply otherwise, my apologies.




No offense taken, just saying, that my reviews (especially the bigger ones), go more in depth on the headphones themselves. So a headphone I feel is good, is gonna be a good recommendation regardless of stereo or surround gaming (as far as personal opinion goes).


----------



## Evshrug

X7 has arrived!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/150_30#post_11133105


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> X7 has arrived!


 
 You can thank your Post Office for the delay...or not lol


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> You can thank your Post Office for the delay...or not lol



Yes.
But it's more the fault of the system than an individual. A couple years back, they closed two mail sorting centers, so now the one near–ish to me is handling the mail for two cities and everything inbetween. That's unfortunate (especially for the former employees), but I understand the decrease in letter-mail and people doing a lot of shipping with the other parcel carriers makes finances a little leaner.

Meh.

X7 review will be in my thread, though Mad might link it (said he would like a month ago), and eventually... Youtube!


----------



## rudyae86

Can I get a link to your thread please lol


----------



## Evshrug

Sure:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal

I also edited it into my other post over an hour ago, and it's always been in my signature.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/amplifiers/creative-sound-blaster-x7-1277101/review


----------



## elimelim

has anyone got the new mixamp 2014/15?
  
 ive noticed on mine its adding a some sort of processing on the microphone which makes my voice sound hissy or buzzy to others in the party or when you test in microphone playback on PS4. (note its only when audio is detected or when i speak so its not constant)
  
 i tried the headset on its own connected to the controller and the microphone sounded so much better so its defo the mixamp doing something. various other reports seen on the forums as well.


----------



## bavinck

elimelim said:


> has anyone got the new mixamp 2014/15?
> 
> ive noticed on mine its adding a some sort of processing on the microphone which makes my voice sound hissy or buzzy to others in the party or when you test in microphone playback on PS4. (note its only when audio is detected or when i speak so its not constant)
> 
> i tried the headset on its own connected to the controller and the microphone sounded so much better so its defo the mixamp doing something. various other reports seen on the forums as well.



I have the 2013 mixamp and I have distortion in my voice when I set the mic level in my ps4. However, my friends do not hear that distortion when I am chatting with them.


----------



## Fleat

elimelim said:


> has anyone got the new mixamp 2014/15?
> 
> ive noticed on mine its adding a some sort of processing on the microphone which makes my voice sound hissy or buzzy to others in the party or when you test in microphone playback on PS4. (note its only when audio is detected or when i speak so its not constant)
> 
> i tried the headset on its own connected to the controller and the microphone sounded so much better so its defo the mixamp doing something. various other reports seen on the forums as well.


 
 I purchased the new mixamp (Amazon sale), and have major issues with the microphone on the PS4. My friends that I was chatting with pleaded with me to switch back to my DSS2 / Symba setup because it sounded so terrible. I only had one night to try it out thus far as I was on vacation in the Caribbean for the last 10 days. I plan to play with it a bit more tonight and tomorrow to see if I can figure out what is causing the issues. If I can't get it sorted out, the mixamp will have to go back.


----------



## elimelim

fleat said:


> I purchased the new mixamp (Amazon sale), and have major issues with the microphone on the PS4. My friends that I was chatting with pleaded with me to switch back to my DSS2 / Symba setup because it sounded so terrible. I only had one night to try it out thus far as I was on vacation in the Caribbean for the last 10 days. I plan to play with it a bit more tonight and tomorrow to see if I can figure out what is causing the issues. If I can't get it sorted out, the mixamp will have to go back.


 
  
 whats actually wrong with it? is it the same issue as me?
  
 tried every fix under the sun and it hasnt worked, i dont think its a hardware issue because many others are saying the same thing. the temporary fix im using is to lower the mic input volume on ps4 but then i have to put the mic closer to my mouth.


----------



## phobia337

I just placed my order for the Sennheiser 598s, so now is amp time. Since I'm reading about this Astro issue with the PS4, is the DSS2 a better option?


----------



## Sam21

maybe the microphones you are using is low quality...different microphones pick up different levels of noise...


----------



## elimelim

sam21 said:


> maybe the microphones you are using is low quality...different microphones pick up different levels of noise...


 
  
 microphone playback is crystal clear via normal PC jacks and ps4 controller... whenever the mixamp is added to it thats when the problem occurs.


----------



## bavinck

Astro has help forums that are pretty good. I would ask for help there. Not heard of mic distortion using mixamp with other people, and as I wrote I do not have this issue when chatting so I would contact Astro.


----------



## Fleat

elimelim said:


> whats actually wrong with it? is it the same issue as me?
> 
> tried every fix under the sun and it hasnt worked, i dont think its a hardware issue because many others are saying the same thing. the temporary fix im using is to lower the mic input volume on ps4 but then i have to put the mic closer to my mouth.


 
 I get a very buzzy noise as well through the microphone that is significantly impairing my voice clarity. Essentially my friends said I sound terrible and they can't stand listening to it since they are used to me sounding crystal clear.
  
 The same headphone / microphone combo (Philips X2 - VModa BoomPro) work perfectly through the DSS2 with the Symba USB audio adapter. It also works brilliantly plugged directly into the controller.
  
 Additionally, I tested this with the modmic 3.0, zalman clip on mic, and a radioshack headset microphone with the exact same results. My Mixamp firmware is up to date and I have never had any issues like this with my Astro A50's.


----------



## bavinck

I contacted modmic about their stuff in relation to PS4 use and they told me they get mixed results with the PS4 and I should look at alternatives. I use a Senn Game One no problem.


----------



## Evshrug

Fleat, can you explain how you simultaneously use the Symba and DSS, or take a pic? Thanks!


----------



## Fleat

evshrug said:


> Fleat, can you explain how you simultaneously use the Symba and DSS, or take a pic? Thanks!


 
 Courtesy of rezneffix: 
  
  
 It is a bit of a kludge which is why I wanted to try out the Astro MixAmp, but it works very well for me.


----------



## Evshrug

Ah thanks, I didn't think about looping the incoming chat audio back around into the DSS, but then the one time I tried using my dss' 3.5mm Jack I had trouble getting that to work.

Thanks again!


----------



## Abula

fegefeuer said:


> There it is, that impedance switch.


 
 From what i can see it says 4/8 ohms, and this should be for the speakers.


----------



## Stillhart

fleat said:


> Courtesy of rezneffix:
> 
> 
> It is a bit of a kludge which is why I wanted to try out the Astro MixAmp, but it works very well for me.


 
  
 Would this work on the DSS1 also?  Is this officially the cheapest alternative for surround and chat on the PS4?
  
 EDIT - @Mad Lust Envy you should add this to the DSS section of the guide.


----------



## Fleat

evshrug said:


> Ah thanks, I didn't think about looping the incoming chat audio back around into the DSS, but then the one time I tried using my dss' 3.5mm Jack I had trouble getting that to work.
> 
> Thanks again!


 
 Not a problem. Yea, it is a bit messy but it works well. The only catch is that you need to adjust the game -> voice balance in the playstation device settings which can be a bit inconvenient in game.
  
 I figured I would give it a shot since I got the DSS2 for $15 on eBay (w/o cables) and the Syba adapter for another $7 on Amazon. Not a terrible setup for the cost, but I was hoping for improvement with the Astro MixAmp Pro and a simplified setup.
  
 Interestingly enough, the Astro MixAmp Pro plugged into the PC with the same setup produces extremely clear voice with minimal microphonics in audacity. This leads me to believe that the issues appear to be specific to the USB pass through to the PS4.


----------



## Fleat

stillhart said:


> Would this work on the DSS1 also?  Is this officially the cheapest alternative for surround and chat on the PS4?
> 
> EDIT - @Mad Lust Envy you should add this to the DSS section of the guide.


 
 Unfortunately, I do not have a DSS1 to test with so someone else will have to test this theory out. I hope this info about my setup helps people out though. If you can manage to snag the DSS2 at a decent price on Amazon, you are looking at less than $30.


----------



## Naingolann

It also works with the DSS v.1. Been using that setup for years now.


----------



## Spartoi

naingolann said:


> It also works with the DSS v.1. Been using that setup for years now.


 
  
 What port on the DSS do you put the 3.5mm cable in? In the picture by Fleat, the 3.5mm cable goes in the DSS2's AUX IN port, but the original DSS does not have that.


----------



## inseconds99

I just built a new custom gaming PC and am looking for audio help.. As there are almost 2000 pages in this thread it is hard for me to compile all the info I need. I am looking at possibly purchasing the new Astro mixamp pro, I currently am using V-moda m100's with the V-moda boom mic along with on-board sound and I seem to have issues with positional queues playing Call of Duty on the PC. I don't know if its my m100's, my ALC1150 - Realtek on-board audio or a combination of both. Will the mixamp help? Should I invest in a new headphone?
  
 My concern is that my living room is pretty loud with my girlfriend often having the TV on and I've tried the Zalman clip on mic and it picks up too much background noise. That's why I invested in the boom mic. If I go to a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro would I need an amp to go with the mixamp? If so which amp? Also would it be better for me to get a DAC and Amp and not get a Astro mixamp or would that ruin my positional queues? What would I do about a mic if I? 
  
 Any and all help would be beneficial, I apologize in advance, as you can tell I have done a ton of research and now need a some direct answers to my questions based on the research I've done.
  
 I am FPS gaming, I am on Dolby Axon or Skype while gaming so I need the best Mic and Headphones. I want to keep total cost of all needed equipment below $500 but I could go over if needed. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I just built a new custom gaming PC and am looking for audio help.. As there are almost 2000 pages in this thread it is hard for me to compile all the info I need. I am looking at possibly purchasing the new Astro mixamp pro, I currently am using V-moda m100's with the V-moda boom mic along with on-board sound and I seem to have issues with positional queues playing Call of Duty on the PC. I don't know if its my m100's, my ALC1150 - Realtek on-board audio or a combination of both. Will the mixamp help? Should I invest in a new headphone?
> 
> My concern is that my living room is pretty loud with my girlfriend often having the TV on and I've tried the Zalman clip on mic and it picks up too much background noise. That's why I invested in the boom mic. If I go to a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro would I need an amp to go with the mixamp? If so which amp? Also would it be better for me to get a DAC and Amp and not get a Astro mixamp or would that ruin my positional queues? What would I do about a mic if I?
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're using it on a PC exclusively, don't get a Mixamp.  They're not very good but they're one of only a few options for console gaming.  On PC you have a lot more options.  
  
 I'd personally recommend getting a Sound Blaster Z/Omni but there's also some good options from Asus Xonar.  These will give you quality surround processing.  If you still have problems with positional cues at that point, it's likely your headphones.  The M100 is closed and closed phones tend to have worse soundstage and imaging than open cans.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> If you're using it on a PC exclusively, don't get a Mixamp.  They're not very good but they're one of only a few options for console gaming.  On PC you have a lot more options.
> 
> I'd personally recommend getting a Sound Blaster Z/Omni but there's also some good options from Asus Xonar.  These will give you quality surround processing.  If you still have problems with positional cues at that point, it's likely your headphones.  The M100 is closed and closed phones tend to have worse soundstage and imaging than open cans.


 
 I appreciate that, I purchased a soundblaster z on my last pc and it was defective on arrival and I had a bad taste in my mouth thereafter with the company. I would consider purchasing one again but if I could find another option I would rather. Also, what about a dac and amp, no good for gaming?


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I appreciate that, I purchased a soundblaster z on my last pc and it was defective on arrival and I had a bad taste in my mouth thereafter with the company. I would consider purchasing one again but if I could find another option I would rather. Also, what about a dac and amp, no good for gaming?


 
  
 If you get a sound card that will output virtual surround over optical (like the Z or Omni), you can get an optical DAC and an Amp.  That's what I use when I game on the PC.  Be aware that the DAC in the Z is actually not that bad so getting something cheap like the Modi isn't really going to improve your sound.  So either get something more expensive or skip the DAC and just get a nice amp.
  
 Someone else will need to chime in on the options from Asus that will output processed surround over optical.


----------



## wilflare

I've been having mic problems with the Mixamp Pro 2013 on the PS4. It is crazily loud that the PS4 cannot pick up my voice commands. Not sure if this is similar to what you guys are facing. 

Any other thoughts on the 598 vs the X1? going back home soon (overseas now) and probably have to decide soon. can't really keep both sadly... 

how's the 598 on comfort? replaceable cables and earcups?

I'm seriously considering a X7... so I can sell off my Mixamp and even my PC's Audinst HUD-MX1 DAC and Soundblaster Zx


----------



## Evshrug

Streaming CoD: Ghosts with the X7, Sennheiser HD700. Come and comment! I'll be playing with surround and trying to get a feel for my new gear, just search for Evshrug or HeadFi.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-t70/

My review of the T70 is up on headphone.guru. I'll be adding it to the guide soon enough.


----------



## RXShadow

fleat said:


> Courtesy of rezneffix:
> 
> 
> It is a bit of a kludge which is why I wanted to try out the Astro MixAmp, but it works very well for me.


 
  
 What? That works? That's pretty interesting, I wish I knew this sooner. I will probably give it a try with my Axaigo adapter lying around somewhere.


----------



## Toxos

Lots of issues k7xx shipment stuff. Other people here that got them get a tracking number yet? I have yet to receive anything of the sort and I am getting sad :/


----------



## conquerator2

toxos said:


> Lots of issues k7xx shipment stuff. Other people here that got them get a tracking number yet? I have yet to receive anything of the sort and I am getting sad :/


 

As of our last update, the K7XXs were making their way through processing at the port of Long Beach, CA. Processing an order like this should take a few hours. Unfortunately, slow moving dock workers stretched this step into a multi-day event.This caused the shipment to miss its originally scheduled freight (truck) shipment. The K7XXs were not ready to be shipped from Long Beach to our NJ fulfillment center until midday Monday.Shipping by truck Monday afternoon would result in an ETA of Friday(Dec 19th) or Monday (Dec 22nd) which would ultimately surely miss our December delivery date estimate. I pitched the situation to our management team and they approved the expense to arrange next day air-freight service for Monday afternoon to take all 11 pallets of headphones to NJ for Tuesday (this costs 15x more than ground freight).Space constraints became an issue and they only managed to book 3 of the 11 pallets onto Monday afternoon flights. The plane was to connect in Chicago and continue its route to NJ, except the connecting plane was smaller than the plan that departed LA, and as a result only 1 pallet made the connection and two were left behind in Chicago. We’ve chartered a private truck to take those two pallets to our warehouse. The remaining 8 pallets are still at Long Beach and we’re desperately trying to find a plane to book them onto so that we can get them to our warehouse byThursday. We have three logistics people calling around and hope to get a favorable result soon.The headphones on the pallets are somewhat mixed up in terms of the serial numbers, so our warehouse employees are unpacking them and then putting them into two piles “< 300” and “> 300” serial numbers, and fulfilling two separate piles of orders based on that. That’s why some higher order numbers are getting fulfilled faster than lower numbers. Keeping the serial number batches straight is extremely important to us.Thanks again for all your support and understanding of this very fluid situation. We’re moving mountains to make this happen and will keep you updated with the latest developments.


----------



## bavinck

Shipping 2000 units all over the world will take more than a couple days I imagine. Its not like they can instantly have everyone's in the mail with tracking numbers. Read the update on the Massdrop site, or posted elsewhere here. I don't think it is fair to say "Lots of issues k7xx shipment stuff". They are doing an awesome job with a logistical nightmare IMO.


----------



## Fleat

rxshadow said:


> What? That works? That's pretty interesting, I wish I knew this sooner. I will probably give it a try with my Axaigo adapter lying around somewhere.


 
 Yea, it works very well. Kudos to Sony for allowing USB audio adapters to function without it being a massive hassle.
  
 You can follow the same logic with the Astro MixAmp Pro and just run the microphone out from the Syba into the MP3 port on the MixAmp. This fixes the terrible microphone quality of the MixAmp Pro. You do lose the game -> voice balance capabilities of the MixAmp Pro with this setup though.

 I also read a post from someone stating that downgrading the MixAmp to older firmware fixes the microphone quality issues. It lowers the mic output volume, and adjusts the noise gate so it isn't quite as "abrupt". I will report back with more details about this when I get a chance to test it.
  
 I was also comparing the DSS2 and Astro MixAmp Pro (2015) back to back last night, and I think I like the positioning on the Astro better. I felt it was a better representation of a larger sound stage with better directional cues. I will continue to compare them until I decide on my "permanent" setup.


----------



## Toxos

conquerator2 said:


> As of our last update, the K7XXs were making their way through processing at the port of Long Beach, CA. Processing an order like this should take a few hours. Unfortunately, slow moving dock workers stretched this step into a multi-day event.This caused the shipment to miss its originally scheduled freight (truck) shipment. The K7XXs were not ready to be shipped from Long Beach to our NJ fulfillment center until midday Monday.Shipping by truck Monday afternoon would result in an ETA of Friday(Dec 19th) or Monday (Dec 22nd) which would ultimately surely miss our December delivery date estimate. I pitched the situation to our management team and they approved the expense to arrange next day air-freight service for Monday afternoon to take all 11 pallets of headphones to NJ for Tuesday (this costs 15x more than ground freight).Space constraints became an issue and they only managed to book 3 of the 11 pallets onto Monday afternoon flights. The plane was to connect in Chicago and continue its route to NJ, except the connecting plane was smaller than the plan that departed LA, and as a result only 1 pallet made the connection and two were left behind in Chicago. We’ve chartered a private truck to take those two pallets to our warehouse. The remaining 8 pallets are still at Long Beach and we’re desperately trying to find a plane to book them onto so that we can get them to our warehouse byThursday. We have three logistics people calling around and hope to get a favorable result soon.The headphones on the pallets are somewhat mixed up in terms of the serial numbers, so our warehouse employees are unpacking them and then putting them into two piles “< 300” and “> 300” serial numbers, and fulfilling two separate piles of orders based on that. That’s why some higher order numbers are getting fulfilled faster than lower numbers. Keeping the serial number batches straight is extremely important to us.Thanks again for all your support and understanding of this very fluid situation. We’re moving mountains to make this happen and will keep you updated with the latest developments.


 
  
 I did receive the email haha and I was just curious as to who had gotten a tracking number yet as some people have received theirs and is scheduled to arrive tomorrow.


bavinck said:


> Shipping 2000 units all over the world will take more than a couple days I imagine. Its not like they can instantly have everyone's in the mail with tracking numbers. Read the update on the Massdrop site, or posted elsewhere here. I don't think it is fair to say "Lots of issues k7xx shipment stuff". They are doing an awesome job with a logistical nightmare IMO.


 
 I would definitely say its fair to say they are having shipment issues. Yes it is a nightmare to begin with which is not the issue I am talking about. I didn't want to explain how the workers are not pushing these things out (from what I believe from other people looking into it -a possible worker strike). Unforseen circumstances that lead you to less than expected results are considered an issue. I am not blaming them, but it is still an issue.
  
 Basically if you had to ship something and you lost it, and then you had to look for it and finally send it to someone you didn't know except now you are running late so you decide for overnight shipping is not an issue, then I don't see lots of issues with shipment 
  
 I do agree that they are doing very well though, just unfortunate for everyone involved in the transaction.


----------



## Naingolann

spartoi said:


> What port on the DSS do you put the 3.5mm cable in? In the picture by Fleat, the 3.5mm cable goes in the DSS2's AUX IN port, but the original DSS does not have that.




My setup is slightly different, because I have a Fiio E9 (and a DT990) in the loop.


----------



## bavinck

This is not a massdrop shipping issue, and how they are responding to a problem they did not create is excellent.


----------



## High Fidelity

Attention: AKG K7XXX owners (also K701, K702/Annies, Q701)
  
 For console gamers out there, especially if you use the Astro Mixamp, what amp are you, or will you, be using if you bought the AKG K7XX? If you own the K701, K702/Annies, Q701 feel free to chime is as these headphones are similar. If you game on PC I'd be interested to know as well since I imagine the amp + headphone combo should sound similar regardless if its on console or PC. Please specify it it's a console or PC setup.
  
 I'm considering getting the new Schiit Magni 2 Uber. Also interested in the O2. Waiting for some reviews on the Magni 2 to see how it sounds compared to the Magni.


----------



## Stillhart

I've used the Q701 with a few different amps.  My favorite has been the Project Ember tube amp.  The Ember is a bit of overkill for the Q701 (I bought it for the HE-4), but Garage1217 makes some cheaper models that should sound just as good, just with fewer features.
  
 I'd recommend at least an E11 for chatting/gaming on the Mixamp.


----------



## phobia337

What is you guys thoughts on the AKG K712s Pros and AKG K612 Pros for gaming? 
  
 I have still been going back and forth on what headphone to get. I was sold on the HD598s due to the 50 ohm and detachable cord. Then after reading how bad the 598s bass is, that I might regret my purchase. So then I started looking at the DT 770s, 880s, 990s. While the 770s offer more bass, I'm concerned it will be to much and want a open hp. The 880s and 990s I'm open to but would rather the 32 ohm just for ease of use on the road. 
  
 Then after reading MLE guide, I saw the Q701 but was turned off by the bumpy headband. Well today I have seen the K612 and 712, they seem extremely balanced, good bass, good mids, good highs, and good sound stage. I wish the cord was detachable and they were not 120 ohm, but if the sound is balanced enough I feel it could warrant it. Now for the record I'd rather the Philips X1 but they are out my price range, I'm trying to stay no higher than $160.


----------



## snrf

I've gotten some impressions around the site but I would love to see someone do complete reviews of the Playstation Gold and Silver headsets. Kinda surprised they are not in here as this is stated as a console focused guide.


----------



## Kamakahah

High Fidelity

I use a DSS and NFB-15 on my PC. I usually use the DSS for competitive FPS play and NFB-15 when I want a more immersion with better music quality. 

My K7XX shipped today, so I'll be sure to answer your question with both of my inputs when it arrives.


----------



## Stillhart

snrf said:


> I've gotten some impressions around the site but I would love to see someone do complete reviews of the Playstation Gold and Silver headsets. Kinda surprised they are not in here as this is stated as a console focused guide.


 
 Here's a short review of the Playstation Wireless Gold Headset:  If you plan on wearing them for more than 2 hours at a time, get something else. _ They become physically painful to wear much longer than that._  Otherwise, they're a good value for the money (surround+wireless for $100 or less is pretty good).  If you're prepared to move into a higher price bracket, there are plenty of better options.
  
 EDIT - Clarification.


----------



## Spartoi

stillhart said:


> Here's a short review of the Playstation Wireless Gold Headset:  If you plan on wearing them for more than 2 hours at a time, get something else.  Otherwise, they're a good value for the money (surround+wireless for $100 or less is pretty good).  If you're prepared to move into a higher price bracket, there are plenty of better options.


 
  
 What are some other VSS + wireless options that are better than the PS Gold Headset? I assume they would just be other gaming headsets?


----------



## Stillhart

spartoi said:


> What are some other VSS + wireless options that are better than the PS Gold Headset? I assume they would just be other gaming headsets?


 
  
 Pretty much any of the headphones in this guide with the Mixamp 5.8 will be superior in every way except convenience and price.  If you're patient and have a nose for a good deal, you can probably keep the price down too.  For example, I got a CAL! on sale a week or two ago for $50.  I got my Mixamp 5.8 on eBay for $40 shipped last summer.  Then you grab some clip-on mics for $5 and you've got a superior setup (as far as SQ and comfort) for the same price or cheaper.  Less convenient, and more cord mess, tho.
  
 If you want another all-in-one solution, I've heard the PLYR1 and it's not bad at all.  If you can snag it on sale, it's definitely a decent choice for an all-in-one wireless solution, plus it's not Sony-exclusive.


----------



## snrf

spartoi said:


> What are some other VSS + wireless options that are better than the PS Gold Headset? I assume they would just be other gaming headsets?


 
 The Astro A40 and Skullcandy PLYR probably both sound better, are more comfortable and durable but cost more. This is based on what i've read from this guide. Would still like a full review of the gold for more detailed information.


----------



## Stillhart

Just wanted to clarify that the Wireless Gold headset becomes physically painful after about 2 hours.  I have a friend with these and he has the same issue.  The pads squish down and then you have plastic clamping down on your ear cartilage.  I would HIGHLY recommend staying away from these if you do play session longer than 2 hours at a time (which is pretty much everyone on occasion, right?)


----------



## nayajoeun

Hi guys,
  
  
 Quick question...
  
 Would re-cabling (upgrading cables) for the PS4 >> DSS >> Amp make much of a difference? 
  
  
 My assumption is that as the DSS is probably a pretty low-qual unit anyway, that it wouldn't be worth the effort hahaha.
  
  
 Any thoughts/experiences would be appreciated!
  
  
 P.S.* : Minus the optical cable, as I've read upgrading digital cables are pointless... 
  
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

bavinck said:


> This is not a massdrop shipping issue, and how they are responding to a problem they did not create is excellent.



No, but it's an inherent risk of buying from a seller who doesn't carry inventory. After you commit and the drop finally ends with enough people, you then pay and wait for them to buy stock and ship it go the group-buy's side. Etc.





High]">.Attention: AKG K7XXX owners (also K701 said:


> What is you guys thoughts on the AKG K712s Pros and AKG K612 Pros for gaming?



I love the K612, don't let the 120 ohms deter you! It's got a bit of warmer bass, bass done tightly but immersive and fun, Mids and treble aren't recessed either and the headphone has amazing tonal balance. The 120 ohms actually make it more amp forgiving, less sensitive to amp hiss and brittle treble, only needs a few notches up in volume. I often play Vain Glory on my iPad Mini in bed with the K612 plugged straight in, it's very satisfying with the intro music and sound effects. I might recommend the K712 if you're very into music, but the K612 is ridiculously close for 1/2 price and is excellent playing Massive Attack or Fur Elisé. Very nice balance of impressive detail without spotlighting recording flaws... it's just an easy headphone to live with and love. As I move on to upgrading above the K712, I'm still keeping my K612 because it's pleasing and such a strong value.

All I do is win win win no matter what, and ev'ry time I walk into the building ev'rybody's hands go Up... And they stay there!!


----------



## Evshrug

nayajoeun said:


> Would re-cabling (upgrading cables) for the PS4 >> DSS >> Amp make much of a difference?
> 
> My assumption is that as the DSS is probably a pretty low-qual unit anyway, that it wouldn't be worth the effort hahaha.



You're right, upgrading an optical cable never makes a difference unless your cable run is unusually long (in which case you'd need a signal repeater), optical cable signals are just the red light on (digital 1) or off (digital 0) to make up bits and bytes. I personally was fine with the stock USB cable, maybe just a USB cable from Monoprice with ferrite chokes to clean interference but I doubt it would make difference as just a power cable.

Don't worry about cables at the DSS level, the DSS is actually pretty solid and ought to be heard. If you want better, get a good desktop amp to plug into it, or upgrade from the DSS to Creative's X7.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Excitement has dissipated entirely. I'm pretty certain the impedance switch is for the *SPEAKER* output, not the headphone one. I'm willing to bet it's the typical 10ohm for headphones. Meh.







fegefeuer said:


> Doh, I read 8-40 in an earlier post in another forum. So it's really 4-8. That's quite different. And much better too.
> 
> I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK. IT'S MADE FOR ALL OF YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES GUYS.







benbenkr said:


> 10ohms. It's not a guess, it's written there by Creative. Uses the same TI TPA6120A as the ZxR.






mad lust envy said:


> If only Creative would give a definitive answer on the X7's output impedance. I dont want guesses. I want an answer.




So, I actually put the question to Creative, and they specifically said the headphone output impedance is 2.2 ohms.

Like I said earlier, Texas Instruments recommended a 10 ohm output impedance, but it's not built into the TPA6120A. Creative's engineers must've found another solution instead of a 10 ohm resistor to manage current.

So Whaddya know, it IS MADE FOR ALL YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES, haha!


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> So, I actually put the question to Creative, and they specifically said the headphone output impedance is 2.2 ohms.
> 
> Like I said earlier, Texas Instruments recommended a 10 ohm output impedance, but it's not built into the TPA6120A. Creative's engineers must've found another solution instead of a 10 ohm resistor to manage current.
> 
> So Whaddya know, it IS MADE FOR ALL YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES, haha!


 
 ohhhh yeahhhhh........
  
 Wait I dont have an X7......


----------



## nayajoeun

Thanks for the help EVSHRUGS!
  
 I've got the DSS hooked up to a desktop amp which is working pretty great! 
  
  
 The X7 looks awesome but I am debating what would be better:
  
 An older receiver (e.g. Marantz) for DTS-HD, DTS to Dolby Headphone conversion VS the X7 
  
  
  
 Also debating whether I should just buy a standalone high quality DAC too to test things out.
  
 For example:
  
  
 HQ DAC + Uncompressed PCM (w/ in-game headphone settings selected *usually the in-game headphone setting has some sort of HTRF processing built in) 
  
 VS
  
 DSS Dolby Digital 5.1ch/Dolby Headphone 
  
  
  
 I thought I noticed a huge difference in sound quality in PCM Dolby Bypass VS Dolby 5.1ch, but, I might just be tripping nuggets and mistaken hahaha
  
 Thank you


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> So, I actually put the question to Creative, and they specifically said the headphone output impedance is 2.2 ohms.
> 
> Like I said earlier, Texas Instruments recommended a 10 ohm output impedance, but it's not built into the TPA6120A. Creative's engineers must've found another solution instead of a 10 ohm resistor to manage current.
> 
> So Whaddya know, it IS MADE FOR ALL YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES, haha!




Great news Evs 
I shall await your full impressions.
So, can you confirm that the X7 supports no form of DTS? Not even the basic, non-Neo, non-HD, version? Cheers


----------



## Fegefeuer

>


  
 I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK AGAIN, IT'S MADE FOR ALL OF YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES GUYS
  
  
 Conquerator declared himself ready to review the X7 with the HE-560, K7XX.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


>


 
 As long as the amp section is up to it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 [Have not seen any power output numbers] The DAC should be nice!
 I'll compare the schiit out of it, the two headphones and to my desktop rig.
 Speaking of the X7...


----------



## clientsiman

I was wondering, will a Mangi 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber + Sound Blaster Z sound significantly better than a solo Sound Blaster Z for music and games for a AKG 712 and Teac LS-H265 passive speakers? (X-post from Nameless Guide to get some replies).


----------



## conquerator2

clientsiman said:


> I was wondering, will a Mangi 2 Uber + Modi 2 Uber + Sound Blaster Z sound significantly better than a solo Sound Blaster Z for music and games for a AKG 712 and Teac LS-H265 passive speakers? (X-post from Nameless Guide to get some replies).


 
 Magni 2 Uber would be a good upgrade. According to Stillhart [hope he doesn't mind], the Modi [regular] was not an appreciable upgrade from the SB Z. The Modi 2 Uber would have to be significantly better to warranty its purchase vs the SB, but only time would tell.
 Seems like just getting the Magni 2 Uber is your safest bet. If you feel even a slight improvement is worth it, you can then give the Modi a shot


----------



## Toxos

bavinck said:


> This is not a massdrop shipping issue, and how they are responding to a problem they did not create is excellent.


 
 I think I see what you are saying. It is not their shipping issue BUT it is still part of their issue (basically anyone interacting within the transaction has the issue). Massdrop has the issue that they may not be able to give the product when they said they would, the shipping people now have to deal with more and more Christmas traffic that was caused by this that may lead to lost or late packages, and the consumer for not being able to receive their product when they expected.
  
 So I agree that it is not massdrop SHIPMENT issue, but it is still an issue.
  
 And as I said before, they are responding very well (speciall with over night shipping... well done!) at their expense. All I am arguing is that it was indeed an issue and I think you took it as an attack to massdrop when that was not my intention. Sorry for any misunderstandings.
  
 EDIT: Will I order stuff that I want from massdrop again? YOU BETCHA.


----------



## phobia337

nayajoeun said:


> Thanks for the help EVSHRUGS!
> 
> I've got the* DSS hooked up *to a desktop amp which is working pretty great!


 
 So Nayajoeun, are you using the DSS1 or 2? 
  
@Evshrug, thanks man. If I can score them in my price range the k612s are coming home with me. Now I think MLE said they were amp picky if I remember correctly. I could be wrong, but I do remember it was a AKG headphone. So what is a fair price amp that works well with the K612s?


----------



## bavinck

toxos said:


> I think I see what you are saying. It is not their shipping issue BUT it is still part of their issue (basically anyone interacting within the transaction has the issue). Massdrop has the issue that they may not be able to give the product when they said they would, the shipping people now have to deal with more and more Christmas traffic that was caused by this that may lead to lost or late packages, and the consumer for not being able to receive their product when they expected.
> 
> So I agree that it is not massdrop SHIPMENT issue, but it is still an issue.
> 
> ...




I think these are logistic growing pains for them. I see so many people posting all over the place that massdrop hasn't sent them a package yet and I don't really need to read that when people just need to exercise some patience! I did misunderstand your intention and am glad we cleared that up! All for the love of good music


----------



## Toxos

bavinck said:


> I think these are logistic growing pains for them. I see so many people posting all over the place that massdrop hasn't sent them a package yet and I don't really need to read that when people just need to exercise some patience! I did misunderstand your intention and am glad we cleared that up! All for the love of good music


 
 Oh indeedy. I kinda gather that when ordering that many items, this happens more often than one would think. This is my first time doing the massdrop thing but I am glad I did. I will be receiving the headphones next Monday! WOO!! Now I think I will order the x7 to drive those bad boys.


----------



## phobia337

Well just purchased a brand new AKG K612 for $119 on Ebay. Excited to get it in, but now I need to figure out my amp situation.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Well just purchased a brand new AKG K612 for $119 on Ebay. Excited to get it in, but now I need to figure out my amp situation.


 
  
 Score, that's a good price.  I'd recommend trying it without amp first to see what you think then worry about an amp later.  The AKG's are interesting in that they benefit a lot from an amp but they don't necessarily NEED one.  I thought mine sounded just fine until I got an amp, then I went "oooohhhh, that's what they meant!"  lol


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Score, that's a good price.  I'd recommend trying it without amp first to see what you think then worry about an amp later.  The AKG's are interesting in that they benefit a lot from an amp but they don't necessarily NEED one.  I thought mine sounded just fine until I got an amp, then I went "oooohhhh, that's what they meant!"  lol


 
 Yea Stillhart I was pumped to score a brand new unopened box for $119. I'll pass this along to anyone interested in a pair of K712ks, right at 2 days left but only $41. I was eyeing these even though they are used. http://www.ebay.com/itm/351253832686?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Back on topic, yea I'm going to run them through my Xonar DG first but pretty confident I'm going to grab a amp/dac regardless just to really bring them out. My question is this Still, I was looking at the Schiit items and I'm lost how you hook this up to a PC? I only see the red/white rca type connectors, wouldn't PC or PS4 require a optical in for the amp/dac?
  
 I'll be honest, I've never seen, touched, or even been around a amp/dac so I'm so clueless on what I need lol.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Yea Stillhart I was pumped to score a brand new unopened box for $119. I'll pass this along to anyone interested in a pair of K712ks, right at 2 days left but only $41. I was eyeing these even though they are used. http://www.ebay.com/itm/351253832686?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Back on topic, yea I'm going to run them through my Xonar DG first but pretty confident I'm going to grab a amp/dac regardless just to really bring them out. My question is this Still, I was looking at the Schiit items and I'm lost how you hook this up to a PC? I only see the red/white rca type connectors, wouldn't PC or PS4 require a optical in for the amp/dac?
> 
> I'll be honest, I've never seen, touched, or even been around a amp/dac so I'm so clueless on what I need lol.


 
  
 DAC's take a digital signal and output an analogue signal.  That means USB (or optical or coaxial) in and RCA (or 1/8" or 1/4") out.
  
 Amps take an analogue signal and output a boosted analog signal.  That means usually RCA (or 1/8") in and RCA (or 1/8" or 1/4") out.  
  
 The thing that should help you understand this better is that analog can be passively converted between the types, no problem.  So you can take a 1/8" output from your Xonar and send it to an RCA input on your amp with just a single cable that's 1/8" on one side and RCA on the other.  
  
 Assuming the Xonar can output processed surround through the optical like the Z, you'll want a DAC with an optical input.  I'll caution again that you might not hear much of an improvement if you're getting an entry-level DAC like the Modi or E17 since you already have an entry-level DAC in your sound card.
  
 As someone once posted in the NamelessPFG thread, there are three levels of quality in PC sound.  In order from worst to best:
  
 1 - Sound card alone
 2 - Sound card + amp
 3 - Sound card + DAC + amp
  
 The nice thing is that you can start with just one and work your way up as you have the money.  If you start with #1 and you're happy, no need to go to #2.  Etc.  I highly recommend you start with #1 and then work your way up to #2 and then #3 if you must.  Spending $200+ on a DAC (which you'll likely need to do to hear an improvement) for a $150 headphone and $100 amp isn't the best way to get the best sound from $450.
  
 EDIT - Oh and for that price, *I* might bid on that K712!  lol


----------



## sepansk4

Long time lurker first time poster...
  
 PSA: Don't bid those K712's up too early...I see they went from $16 to over $100 just today...Not the smartest eBay buying move.
  
 Back to browsing this thread for more detailed info about getting the best quality sound for competitive and immersive gaming on my PS4 and Xbox One, I know I will probably be buying 2 headsets which I am fine with.
  
 Back to finding out the best combinations for use with both systems.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> DAC's take a digital signal and output an analogue signal.  That means USB (or optical or coaxial) in and RCA (or 1/8" or 1/4") out.
> 
> Amps take an analogue signal and output a boosted analog signal.  That means usually RCA (or 1/8") in and RCA (or 1/8" or 1/4") out.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for all the info SH. Now let me see if I have this right. 
  
 Stage 2 setup *Do I have how the sound card and magni would connect right?*
 Xonar DG Sound card
 +
 Magni 2 Amp
 + 
 AKG K612
  

  
 -----------------------------
  
 Stage 3 *Amp and Dac*
 Xonar DG Sound card (optical out)
 +
 Modi 2 Dac
 +
 Magni 2 Amp
 + 
 AKG K612
  

  
 -------------------------------------
  
 PS4 Setup *amp & dac*
 PS4 optical out
 + 
 Modi 2 Dac
 +
 Magni 2 Amp
 + 
 AKG K612


----------



## Stillhart

sepansk4 said:


> Long time lurker first time poster...
> 
> PSA: Don't bid those K712's up too early...I see they went from $16 to over $100 just today...Not the smartest eBay buying move.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, eBay has been around for like 15 years and people are still doing stupid **** like this.  Every time I see it, I assume it's the person running the auction bumping it with a puppet account.
  


phobia337 said:


> Thanks for all the info SH. Now let me see if I have this right.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, that looks about right.  And it seems you're set on getting the Modi.  I'd be curious to hear your impression of the differences in DAC with your DG and with your PS4.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Yeah, eBay has been around for like 15 years and people are still doing stupid **** like this.  Every time I see it, I assume it's the person running the auction bumping it with a puppet account.
> 
> 
> Yeah, that looks about right.  And it seems you're set on getting the Modi.  I'd be curious to hear your impression of the differences in DAC with your DG and with your PS4.


 
 Actually, I have no clue what to get. I was just using those two because Schiit has their stuff labeled nice and clear AMP or DAC on their site so I just used those reference picks. 
  
 Now which is better USB dac or Optical? Also, do you know of a good priced amp/dac combo that would suit me good for my application?


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Actually, I have no clue what to get. I was just using those two because Schiit has their stuff labeled nice and clear AMP or DAC on their site so I just used those reference picks.
> 
> Now which is better USB dac or Optical? Also, do you know of a good priced amp/dac combo that would suit me good for my application?


 
 USB interface has more bandwidth than Optical so if you have the option to listen to extra hi-res files like 384k sample rates (CD is 44k and HD tracks are 96k or 192k).  I believe optical maxes out at 192k (could be 96k).  If you get into the really high end, USB also can get a cleaner signal with power cleaners and anti-jitter and magic fairy dust and unicorn farts.
  
 However, optical has the advantage of being able to carry the processed sound from your sound card in a digital format.  By that I mean you can have your sound card process the virtual surround into a stereo signal and pass that to the DAC.  This lets you have surround AND a good DAC.  If you use USB, you can't get surround (unless you're talking about the Mixamp/Recon/etc, but in this case we're specifically not).
  
 tl;dr - USB = More potential for better sound but stereo only.  Optical = Good enough for most sane people at 192k (96k?) cap and option for surround.
  
 Regarding Amp/DAC combos, tell me again what you're looking to use it for?  Mostly music with some gaming?  Vice versa?  A little of everything, including movies?


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> USB interface has more bandwidth than Optical so if you have the option to listen to extra hi-res files like 384k sample rates (CD is 44k and HD tracks are 96k or 192k).  I believe optical maxes out at 192k (could be 96k).  If you get into the really high end, USB also can get a cleaner signal with power cleaners and anti-jitter and magic fairy dust and unicorn farts.
> 
> However, optical has the advantage of being able to carry the processed sound from your sound card in a digital format.  By that I mean you can have your sound card process the virtual surround into a stereo signal and pass that to the DAC.  This lets you have surround AND a good DAC.  If you use USB, you can't get surround (unless you're talking about the Mixamp/Recon/etc, but in this case we're specifically not).
> 
> ...


 
 Mainly PC and PS4 gaming. To give you a example of my setup, so as you can see the PS4 and PC are very close to one another. So I'm looking to be able to have headphones plugged into a amp and use either PC or PS4 without swapping cables or anything like that. Mainly Music and games only, mayyyyyybeee a movie once in blue moon.


----------



## Stillhart

I see two main options:
  
 1 - Just get an X7 and call it a day.  You can use USB to the computer and Optical to the PS4 and you're golden.  Downsides:  if you decide you want better sound, you can't just upgrade the DAC or Amp or whatever, you have to replace the whole thing.  I'm not particularly a fan of all-in-one solutions, but they're definitely convenient and if they're just right for your needs, they can be really economical too.
  
 2 - Go modular.  Get a surround processor (or stereo DAC) for your PS4 and then a Schiit SYS (or similar switch) and and Amp.  Plug the PC and PS4 into the SYS and use that to switch inputs between sources.  Then you have the ability to upgrade the amp or the DAC's at will.  Want better music for your PC?  Stick a better DAC in between the PC and the SYS.  etc.  This is how I'd go because I like the freedom to change it up, but the tradeoff is a lot of cords and clutter and you're opening yourself up to "upgrade-itis".  :-D
  
 EDIT for #3 - Derp, there's another option.  If you're not too concerned about surround on the PS4, you can get a DAC with multiple switchable inputs like the Modi 2 Ultra or the NFB-15 (which also includes an amp).  Plug the optical into your computer and the USB into the PS4 (or vice versa) and you're good to go there.  The NFB-15 USB might not work with the PS4 because I think the USB requires a driver, but then you just use the optical for the PS4 and USB for PC.
  
 For the record, I love my NFB-15.  But it's hard for me to recommend an option that doesn't include surround for gaming.  :-D


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> I see two main options:
> 
> 1 - Just get an X7 and call it a day.  You can use USB to the computer and Optical to the PS4 and you're golden.  Downsides:  if you decide you want better sound, you can't just upgrade the DAC or Amp or whatever, you have to replace the whole thing.  I'm not particularly a fan of all-in-one solutions, but they're definitely convenient and if they're just right for your needs, they can be really economical too.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!! This at least puts me on a path of sorts. Ohhh and we have gone over this, I dislike surround processors ;P 
  
 My only problem is I'm almost forced so I have a mic on the PS4. So a DSS 1 is almost a requirement.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!! This at least puts me on a path of sorts. Ohhh and we have gone over this, I dislike surround processors ;P
> 
> My only problem is I'm almost forced so I have a mic on the PS4. So a DSS 1 is almost a requirement.


 
  
 Nah, just get a USB desk mic.  @Evshrug has one that he really likes, maybe he'll chime in.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Nah, just get a USB desk mic.  @Evshrug has one that he really likes, maybe he'll chime in.


 
 Blue Snowball here I come!!!!!


----------



## nayajoeun

@Phobia: 

Hiya, I am using the DSS 1.

System is: PS4 > DSS 1 > (Sometimes use a Cayin C5 portable Amp here as a makeshift preamp + bass boost) > Emotiva Mini-X > LCD-2F.

With the DSS @ 1 o'clock, I can't turn the volume knob higher than 9 o'clock w/o it being ridiculously loud!


Oh man, I wish the x7 didn't cost $500 here (AUS) haha x)

P.S. Love the photo of your sanctuary! Great setup


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Yeah, eBay has been around for like 15 years and people are still doing stupid **** like this.  Every time I see it, I assume it's the person running the auction bumping it with a puppet account.
> 
> 
> Yeah, that looks about right.  And it seems you're set on getting the Modi.  I'd be curious to hear your impression of the differences in DAC with your DG and with your PS4.



*~$150 is waaaaay WAAAAAAAY below what I'd suspect to pay for a K712. This guy must've started bidding at a dollar, for his sake I hope he has a price reserve, but I bet the magic of Internet exposure will get the price to < $260+.

And a translation for you phobia: "I'd be curious DG vs Modi impressions" = "Creative's Omni, Z, Schiit's Modi, and [banned from head-fi] NwAvGuy's ODAC all sound around the same level, DAC wise, the Modi will probably be worth it only over the DG's built-in DAC if the DG is crappy."*




stillhart said:


> USB interface has more bandwidth than Optical so if you have the option to listen to extra hi-res files like 384k sample rates (CD is 44k and HD tracks are 96k or 192k).  I believe optical maxes out at 192k (could be 96k).  If you get into the really high end, USB also can get a cleaner signal with power cleaners and anti-jitter and magic fairy dust and unicorn farts.
> 
> tl;dr - USB = More potential for better sound but stereo only.  Optical = Good enough for most sane people at 192k (96k?) cap and option for surround.



*LOL unicorn farts, I love you sometimes Stillhart (but I love my GF all the time!). Optical supports up to 24-bit/196kHz sample rate, yup higher than CD, and yup probably above the human hearing limit except for young dogs. Now, HD tracks may be better mastered than a pop CD, but that's a different story.*



phobia337 said:


> Thanks a bunch!!!!!!!!!! This at least puts me on a path of sorts. Ohhh and we have gone over this, I dislike surround processors ;P
> My only problem is I'm almost forced so I have a mic on the PS4. So a DSS 1 is almost a requirement.



Which surround processor did you try? I had more success with DH than Silent Cinema (yes Mad, they're close but I've changed my mind that DH is better implemented), and SBX even more. Even so, the X7 is still practical by being a hub for all your sources, and still has line-outs for amps and optical-outs if you want to use a DAC. keep in mind that I intend to replace my $420 Schiit Bifrost Uber, happily.



phobia337 said:


> Mainly PC and PS4 gaming. To give you a example of my setup, so as you can see the PS4 and PC are very close to one another. So I'm looking to be able to have headphones plugged into a amp and use either PC or PS4 without swapping cables or anything like that. Mainly Music and games only, mayyyyyybeee a movie once in blue moon.



My setup is similar, IMO that's the perfect environment for the X7. That doesn't mean other options aren't good. It's just my setup is really clean now. My GF walked in when I first posted this (we left for dinner so I'm finishing typing my post now), and she complimented that it was a "nice, little setup" compared to the former audio stack, a bunch of extra doodads, my Snowball mic, and my headphones laying down on the side table. Now, everything's contained to that one area.

But aaaanyway... If your motherboard has optical out, an optical DAC and versatile amp is another good option, because of course the PS4 also has optical output (and can be set for stereo PCM output). Add a USB desktop mic, and it'll be simple and tidy enough.

I do like my Blue Microphone's Snowball. I don't care too much about mic quality, as long as my party can hear me intelligibly that's good, but there's not many options cheaper for a USB mic than a Snowball on EBay, and the snowball has the bonus of sounding really pleasant.


----------



## phobia337

1) I wouldn't get a dac if I didn't need one, but how else could I tie in my PC and PS4 sound output to 1 amp? Considering the PS4 only real sound output source is the optical cable and on the DG I could do both. I'm very open to suggestions if I could only run a amp.
  
 2) It was the Sound Blaster Z, so what does it run the SBX I believe.......right? I'm sorry but I've had nothing but issues with creative, poor drivers, bad life span, and just plain audio issues. Biggest reason I finally gave up on creative several years ago and went ASUS who I'm also not high on, but thats mainly from their mobo side.
  
 Sorry guys, sound has never been my thing. Entering this world of audiophile is a tad overwhelming but I'm loving the learning experience.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> 1) I wouldn't get a dac if I didn't need one, but how else could I tie in my PC and PS4 sound output to 1 amp? Considering the PS4 only real sound output source is the optical cable and on the DG I could do both. I'm very open to suggestions if I could only run a amp.
> 
> 2) It was the Sound Blaster Z, so what does it run the SBX I believe.......right? I'm sorry but I've had nothing but issues with creative, poor drivers, bad life span, and just plain audio issues. Biggest reason I finally gave up on creative several years ago and went ASUS who I'm also not high on, but thats mainly from their mobo side.
> 
> Sorry guys, sound has never been my thing. Entering this world of audiophile is a tad overwhelming but I'm loving the learning experience.


 
 You could just get one of those little Syba things...


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> You could just get one of those little Syba things...


 
 So that would be plugged into the ps4? 
  
 I'm guessing if I went that route I'd need a SYS to select the two incoming sources and then out that to a magni to amp the headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> So that would be plugged into the ps4?
> 
> I'm guessing if I went that route I'd need a SYS to select the two incoming sources and then out that to a magni to amp the headphones?


 
 There you go, you're getting it now.  
  






 
  
 PS - Don't know how good it's going to sound... never used it myself.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> There you go, you're getting it now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

  
 Yea at least I'm starting to grasp how these things work together. I just figured their would be signal degradation with splitters, adapters, and the sorts like that. 
  
 Side Note: Anyone interested in the Philips X1, guy has a like new pair still in good price range.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301441962831?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Yea at least I'm starting to grasp how these things work together. I just figured their would be signal degradation with splitters, adapters, and the sorts like that.


 
  
 Some unicorn farts would fix that right up!
  
 Seriously tho, while there might be some degradation, it won't be at a perceptible level for most folks and their modest rigs.  I mean, as long as you're not splicing cables together by hand with electrical tape, it shouldn't be noticeable.  
  
 Caveat:  There are people on here who will tell you that using $20 RCA cables from Schiit will sound better than the $5 ones from Monoprice.  They might disagree with my statement above.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Some unicorn farts would fix that right up!
> 
> Seriously tho, while there might be some degradation, it won't be at a perceptible level for most folks and their modest rigs.  I mean, as long as you're not splicing cables together by hand with electrical tape, it shouldn't be noticeable.
> 
> Caveat:  There are people on here who will tell you that using $20 RCA cables from Schiit will sound better than the $5 ones from Monoprice.  They might disagree with my statement above.


 
 Good to know
  
 I guess there is no amp with selector and two SPDIF inputs for a decent price????? Wishful thinking but I can dream.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Good to know
> 
> I guess there is no amp with selector and two SPDIF inputs????? wishful thinking but I can dream.


 
  
 You're getting into Stereo/AVR territory there.  Honestly, they're not a bad option either.  Tons of connectivity and power, usually a decent DAC, all at the expense of size and heat.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> You're getting into Stereo/AVR territory there.  Honestly, they're not a bad option either.  Tons of connectivity and power, usually a decent DAC, all at the expense of size and heat.


 
 I have a cheap Sony AVR, but the headphone jack on it sucks. Any movement of the cord and you get crackin, popping, etc.
  
 Knowing AVR prices, it would almost be cheaper to go Schiit route.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> I have a cheap Sony AVR, but the headphone jack on it sucks. Any movement of the cord and you get crackin, popping, etc.
> 
> Knowing AVR prices, it would almost be cheaper to go Schiit route.


 
 I got my HK AVR from their refurb shop on eBay many moons ago.  It came with full factory warranty but it was way cheaper than new.  I think they're still doing that...


----------



## Evshrug

phobia337 said:


> Good to know
> 
> I guess there is no amp with selector and two SPDIF inputs for a decent price????? Wishful thinking but I can dream.



I didn't get to finish my earlier post because girlfriend + dinner, but I edited some more in regarding the snowball and modular setups.

Amps don't have optical inputs, optical is digital and requires digital to analogue conversion (DAC) before it gets to amping stage, though some DACs have a headphone amp stage built in, like... well TONS of options, frankly. There ARE such things as optical switches which are akin to KVM switches, mentioned a few times in this thread and others, that might be worth the research for simplicity's sake. I forget what the suggestion was for a reliable one, might have been something as simple as a unit where you manually toggle a switch rather than use a remote or something like that. I don't have one, but I think Schiit's SYS thingie is an analogue switcher, so you could connect the SYS to your DG for the PC and I guess a Syba or something to the Playstation, and then connect the SYS output to a nice amp. I think that could work well for you.

Schiit Audio gets a lot of word of mouth here (also they've spent a lot of time making good use of their Head-Fi Sponsor status, and have a catchy name, all good business things), and they're good options, but they're not the only options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Score one for Creative. 2.2ohms is pretty ideal, and IMHO better than a near zero output impedance which thins out a headphone's sound due to overdamping. 

If the X7 goes down to less than $300, I'll sell some things for it.

You get a good dac, amp, and vurtual surround. I love having everything in one package (not so much of a modular guy, unless its a computer).


----------



## bavinck

mad lust envy said:


> Score one for Creative. 2.2ohms is pretty ideal, and IMHO better than a near zero output impedance which thins out a headphone's sound due to overdamping.
> 
> If the X7 goes down to less than $300, I'll sell some things for it.
> 
> You get a good dac, amp, and vurtual surround. I love having everything in one package (not so much of a modular guy, unless its a computer).




Where did you confirm the output impedance?


----------



## Evshrug

bavinck said:


> Where did you confirm the output impedance?



I asked Creative to review the X7... I asked them directly about the headphone output impedance, and Susie Hayne and Ryan Schlieper confirmed with the engineers that it is 2.2 ohms.


----------



## rudyae86

bavinck said:


> Where did you confirm the output impedance?




He said it in a previous post but he sent creative an email asking about it and got a reply with that info


----------



## bavinck

evshrug said:


> I asked Creative to review the X7... I asked them directly about the headphone output impedance, and Susie Hayne and Ryan Schlieper confirmed with the engineers that it is 2.2 ohms.



That's good news. How would a Mic work with the x7 and ps4?


----------



## Change is Good

My K7XX has now been shipped. ETA will be Tuesday. With all the extra holiday traffic, I sure do hope they make it in time. I can't wait to hear that AKG goodness, again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey Evs, think you can ask them how many MW of power the X7 gives to headphones of different impedances? Like 1 watt @32ohm, 100mw @ 600ohm. It will give me a good idea of what it compares to.


----------



## sepansk4

Are the AKG K712 Pro significantly better than the K612 Pro? There are one of each on eBay right now and debating pulling the trigger on one or both of sets. 
  
 Edit: Looks like the K712 is the way to go over these two, but I am open to any other set of cans.
  
 Additionally I read about 150 pages of this thread at work but never read a situation similar to mine. I am a noob when it comes to the technical side of things so need some help. 
  
 I have a PS4 and an Xbox One, in conjunction with TV watching. I do not PC game so any PC options are not viable for me. 
 I am competitive in COD on Xbox one and play my RPG's on PS4. 
 After watching numerous audio comparisons, I prefer the Dolby Headphone sound so keep that in mind.
  
 My goal is to have a setup where I do not need to unplug and plug in my cans to each system when I want to play on one console or the other. I am thinking there will need to be a central receiver where I run HDMI/optical into from both consoles then connect my headphone DAC+Amp into the receiver and go from there. How will this effect chat? I am thinking I would use the controllers headphone input (stereo headset adapter on xbox one) to use a mod mic. 
  
 I would like to get a solid pair or 2 pair of cans (upwards of $300 each) one for competitive gaming and one for casual gaming/media watching.  
 I currently have a Turtle Beach Earforce DSS (first gen that came with my TB X11 headset) but am not opposed to getting a better set up with a better Amp and DAC combo (looking for suggestions in this area, even though the X7 seems to be a solid fan favorite as an all in one solution.) 
  
 Thank you everyone for the extreme wealth of knowledge and help.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Well, looks like I'm getting my K7XX on Monday if UPS is to be believed.
  
 I'll just have to figure out what to do with the existing MA900 after that arrives.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> I got my HK AVR from their refurb shop on eBay many moons ago.  It came with full factory warranty but it was way cheaper than new.  I think they're still doing that...


 
 Yea that is not a bad idea for adding a entire sound solution to the gaming man cave.  I'm thinking modular is going to be better for me though.
  


evshrug said:


> I didn't get to finish my earlier post because girlfriend + dinner, but I edited some more in regarding the snowball and modular setups.
> 
> Amps don't have optical inputs, optical is digital and requires digital to analogue conversion (DAC) before it gets to amping stage, though some DACs have a headphone amp stage built in, like... well TONS of options, frankly. There ARE such things as optical switches which are akin to KVM switches, mentioned a few times in this thread and others, that might be worth the research for simplicity's sake. I forget what the suggestion was for a reliable one, might have been something as simple as a unit where you manually toggle a switch rather than use a remote or something like that. I don't have one, but I think Schiit's SYS thingie is an analogue switcher, so you could connect the SYS to your DG for the PC and I guess a Syba or something to the Playstation, and then connect the SYS output to a nice amp. I think that could work well for you.
> 
> Schiit Audio gets a lot of word of mouth here (also they've spent a lot of time making good use of their Head-Fi Sponsor status, and have a catchy name, all good business things), and they're good options, but they're not the only options.


 
 Yea honestly Evshrug, I only know what I've read in here for amps/dacs. Schiit, O2, FiiO, X7, and that about covers who I know. Any affordable other options or companies I'm all ears. 
  
 What do ya'll think of this dac/amp solution?
*Option1)* Couldn't I just use a optical splitter then run both the optical from the DG and PS4 to the splitter, then one into the D1.  
*Option 2)* USB in from PC, Optical In from PS4.
 Trying to think, simple, easy, and inexpensive. 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/audioengine-d1
  
 Edit: Never mind, found this
 "USB audio is muted as soon as you connect the optical input, and you can't switch between input sources. That seems like a bad oversight on the part of whoever designed this DAC."


----------



## Toxos

So I am still learning lots about sound and I was trying to find a pro and con list of getting the x7. Anyone wanna help? I game on pc and ps4 and wiiu (although I do not need headphones for wiiu lol). 
  
 Is $400 really worth it? I mean, what is the cost of just getting a dac/amp and a nice soundcard inside my pc. Would I get the same result for less possibly? I know it is still early in the life of the x7 but the mono headset on my ps4 is REALLY starting to drive me nuts lol


----------



## Fleat

toxos said:


> So I am still learning lots about sound and I was trying to find a pro and con list of getting the x7. Anyone wanna help? I game on pc and ps4 and wiiu (although I do not need headphones for wiiu lol).
> 
> Is $400 really worth it? I mean, what is the cost of just getting a dac/amp and a nice soundcard inside my pc. Would I get the same result for less possibly? I know it is still early in the life of the x7 but the mono headset on my ps4 is REALLY starting to drive me nuts lol


 
 I am still waiting on confirmation of someone successfully using a microphone through the X7 on the PS4. I am really curious to see what the microphone quality will be like, and how well the game -> voice adjustments work.


----------



## pathfindercod

I can tell you and BIG thank you to Mad Lust for this thread. I bought the x7 and the 712 pros.  I have been doing my uneducated testing.  I first plugged the 712's right into my iphone and was immediately floored by the sound quality of these headphones. I have never heard anything so clear and smooth in my life (my first higher end headphone/audio purchase). I then removed my Razer 7.1 Tiamat headphones and plugged these right into the PC. Set the audio jack to headphones and BF4 to hi-fi surround etc.  OMG!!!!! The stuff I heard I never knew existed in the game. I could hear the direction shoutouts the game does and bullet fire. I could immediately hone in on the direction of the action.  It gets better!  Standing beside a wall I heard several footstep run by on the other side of the wall so I turned around and was ready to fire and bam 4 enemies came right around the corner, they died....  This is all with the onboard sound (realtech/asus rampage iv black).  I am now hooking the x7 up and bypassing the onboard sound to test music and more so gaming using the Sound Blaster chip etc. Excited to try the scout mode with these headphones.
  
 I did it in this order to get baseline render of the headphones before adding the amp for "higher end audio"..  I am excited to try the x7 now.
  
 Does it get any better than the 712pro's for gaming? I cant imagine it does.  Music was breathtaking as well. Only thing sorta lacking for some music with these would be bass, but I know they aren't designed for that arena and there would be better options if bass is your desire.


----------



## phobia337

So how do you think this would work. I just got a idea for my PS4 + PC + K612 setup. 
  
 What if I re-purchased a Sound blaster Z or another card with a optical in. Run my PS4 optical sound out from PS4 to Sound Blast Z optical input. Then run the headphones off the headphone jack. Will this work well enough as a amp to power the k612?
  
 This looks like it would suit all my needs if it would work.


----------



## Toxos

phobia337 said:


> So how do you think this would work. I just got a idea for my PS4 + PC + K612 setup.
> 
> What if I re-purchased a Sound blaster Z or another card with a optical in. Run my PS4 optical sound out from PS4 to Sound Blast Z optical input. Then run the headphones off the headphone jack. Will this work well enough as a amp to power the k612?
> 
> This looks like it would suit all my needs if it would work.


 
 Oh my goodness... I never thought about doing that... now that opens up another option since my ps4 and pc are right next to each other. CRAP! I wonder how this solution would compare to the x7 now. 
  
 Also, thanks to:


pathfindercod said:


> *stuff*


 
 I am getting closer and closer to finding a solution for my new k7xx and my headset. Soon I will be able to play across all my systems without any sound degradation! HOPEFULLY


----------



## phobia337

Yea Toxos we are both looking for same solutions and both have AKGs, so we should keep in contact on what we find out.


----------



## sepansk4

fleat said:


> I am still waiting on confirmation of someone successfully using a microphone through the X7 on the PS4. I am really curious to see what the microphone quality will be like, and how well the game -> voice adjustments work.


 
 Theoretically, couldn't someone just use the headphone port in the controller for a microphone?
  
 The same concept applies to Xbox One with a stereo headset adapter. Audio is still pumped through the Optical Out port in the back to the X7 and the mic is plugged into the 3.5mm jack.
  
 I am curious because I am looking for a solution for use with both systems.


----------



## Stillhart

I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned several times and there was a reason it wouldn't work (using optical in from PS4 to SBZ).
  
 Phobia, if you want an easy solution that sounds fantastic but won't give you surround, I suggest getting an Audio-GD NFB-15 or NFB-11.  It has both USB and optical inputs so you plug the USB into your computer and the optical into your PS4.  There's a switch on the front of the unit to switch inputs so you just flip the switch when you switch between PS4 and PC.
  
 The DAC in the NFB-15 is a noticeable step up from the Sound Blaster Z/Omni.  The amp is super powerful and will drive even difficult cans like my HE-4.  Overall, I'm convinced that it's one of the best bang-for-the-buck solutions out there.  It's not much more than the old Schiit Stack and now that they have "uber" versions, it's potentially cheaper!  I'm very happy with mine.  Oh, and it's cheaper than the X7.


----------



## Toxos

phobia337 said:


> Yea Toxos we are both looking for same solutions and both have AKGs, so we should keep in contact on what we find out.


 
 Agreed.


stillhart said:


> i*t wouldn't work (using optical in from PS4 to SBZ).*
> 
> The DAC in the NFB-15 is a noticeable step up from the Sound Blaster Z/Omni.  The amp is super powerful and will drive even difficult cans like my HE-4.  Overall, I'm convinced that it's one of the best bang-for-the-buck solutions out there.  It's not much more than the old Schiit Stack and now that they have "uber" versions, it's potentially cheaper!  I'm very happy with mine.  Oh, and it's cheaper than the X7.


 
 Hmm... Phobia, it sounds like if we want the best solution with surround sound (as I do wish to have), the X7 may just be the best option at the time being. I will keep researching for more and let you know if I come up with anything else. Also if anyone else has more options, I would greatly appreciate the input.


----------



## sepansk4

In case anyone wants to pay almost double retail for K7XX
  
eBay Link


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned several times and there was a reason it wouldn't work (using optical in from PS4 to SBZ).
> 
> Phobia, if you want an easy solution that sounds fantastic but won't give you surround, I suggest getting an Audio-GD NFB-15 or NFB-11.  It has both USB and optical inputs so you plug the USB into your computer and the optical into your PS4.  There's a switch on the front of the unit to switch inputs so you just flip the switch when you switch between PS4 and PC.
> 
> The DAC in the NFB-15 is a noticeable step up from the Sound Blaster Z/Omni.  The amp is super powerful and will drive even difficult cans like my HE-4.  Overall, I'm convinced that it's one of the best bang-for-the-buck solutions out there.  It's not much more than the old Schiit Stack and now that they have "uber" versions, it's potentially cheaper!  I'm very happy with mine.  Oh, and it's cheaper than the X7.


 
 Thanks for the options Still, but I'm reading a thread here on Hi-fi that says it will work with the Zx. The issue is the PS4 input into sound card will be only stereo PCM and can't output surround process effects. So looks like it works, it will just have to be stereo sound coming from PS4.
  


> the Z can accept stereo optical input (and fake surround processing from that, but is more of a sound effect than accurate positioning), and of course you'd have to have both PC and console turned on. If you're looking at the Zx for convenience I'd honestly get the Omni instead.


----------



## Stillhart

Quite possible that the issue was no surround, yep.  Maybe Nameless or Evs can jump in on this one.


----------



## JakiChan

I'm a console gamer who finds himself now needing a gaming headset if I'm going to be able to continue to play Destiny without ending up single again.  *sigh*  I also have a nice living room and I don't want a long Toslink cable stretched from my console to my couch.
  
 Right now I've got the Astro A50s and the Steelseries H Wireless in my possession.  I'm A/Bing them right now.  The Astros need WAY better eq - they're muddled all to hell, just as the review claims.  The Steelseries sound much better but are a bit uncomfortable.  Neither sound as good as my ATH-M50s.
  
 What I *want* is something Astro used to make but no longer does, their Mixamp 5.8.  That would be PERFECT - if it worked and was supported and everything. Is there any product out there that is similar that I missed?  Then I'd use a modmic and my ATH-M50s.


----------



## Stillhart

jakichan said:


> I'm a console gamer who finds himself now needing a gaming headset if I'm going to be able to continue to play Destiny without ending up single again.  *sigh*  I also have a nice living room and I don't want a long Toslink cable stretched from my console to my couch.
> 
> Right now I've got the Astro A50s and the Steelseries H Wireless in my possession.  I'm A/Bing them right now.  The Astros need WAY better eq - they're muddled all to hell, just as the review claims.  The Steelseries sound much better but are a bit uncomfortable.  Neither sound as good as my ATH-M50s.
> 
> What I *want* is something Astro used to make but no longer does, their Mixamp 5.8.  That would be PERFECT - if it worked and was supported and everything. Is there any product out there that is similar that I missed?  Then I'd use a modmic and my ATH-M50s.


 
  
 Nope.  But you can still find the 5.8 on eBay...


----------



## Evshrug

phobia337 said:


> Yea that is not a bad idea for adding a entire sound solution to the gaming man cave.  I'm thinking modular is going to be better for me though.
> 
> Yea honestly Evshrug, I only know what I've read in here for amps/dacs. Schiit, O2, FiiO, X7, and that about covers who I know. Any affordable other options or companies I'm all ears.
> 
> ...



Well, in your case where you want to avoid surround, an Audio-GD or other Amp/DAC combo with input selector would be probably the most effective solution. There are used ones appearing sometimes in the FS forum, which is how Stillhart got his (or was it EBay?), but a new one is closer in price to the new X7.




phobia337 said:


> So how do you think this would work. I just got a idea for my PS4 + PC + K612 setup.
> 
> What if I re-purchased a Sound blaster Z or another card with a optical in. Run my PS4 optical sound out from PS4 to Sound Blast Z optical input. Then run the headphones off the headphone jack. Will this work well enough as a amp to power the k612?
> 
> This looks like it would suit all my needs if it would work.



Yeah, the Soundcard can accept stereo input through optical (no current production internal soundcard can decode a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 surround signal over optical, for licensing and DRM reasons), so for your preferences that would work fine. Only downside is you have to have your PC running while you run your console. #electricwaste





sepansk4 said:


> Theoretically, couldn't someone just use the headphone port in the controller for a microphone?
> 
> The same concept applies to Xbox One with a stereo headset adapter. Audio is still pumped through the Optical Out port in the back to the X7 and the mic is plugged into the 3.5mm jack.
> 
> I am curious because I am looking for a solution for use with both systems.



Theoretically, it would be awesome, in practice (I tried), the PS4 controller doesn't recoignize a Mic by itself, you've gotta get a TRRS smartphone-to-split-into-mic-and-audio adapter. I don't have an XBox One, but Stillhart uses a recon3D like I used to, and sometimes the XBO auto detects the microphone like as if it was a whole headset and "steals" the game audio from optical. Xbox is even more challenging than the 360 in this respect.

For the PS4, I found it easiest just to plug in a USB desktop mic, I got a Blue Snowball used from EBay.





phobia337 said:


> Thanks for the options Still, but I'm reading a thread here on Hi-fi that says it will work with the Zx. The issue is the PS4 input into sound card will be only stereo PCM and can't output surround process effects. So looks like it works, it will just have to be stereo sound coming from PS4.



Right, but you just wanted stereo, right? Keep in mind that the Zx = Z with the ACM passive control module, IMO not worth the price difference.


----------



## phobia337

evshrug said:


> Well, in your case where you want to avoid surround, an Audio-GD or other Amp/DAC combo with input selector would be probably the most effective solution. There are used ones appearing sometimes in the FS forum, which is how Stillhart got his (or was it EBay?), but a new one is closer in price to the new X7.
> Yeah, the Soundcard can accept stereo input through optical (no current production internal soundcard can decode a Dolby Digital Live 5.1 surround signal over optical, for licensing and DRM reasons), so for your preferences that would work fine. Only downside is you have to have your PC running while you run your console. #electricwaste
> Theoretically, it would be awesome, in practice (I tried), the PS4 controller doesn't recoignize a Mic by itself, you've gotta get a TRRS smartphone-to-split-into-mic-and-audio adapter. I don't have an XBox One, but Stillhart uses a recon3D like I used to, and sometimes the XBO auto detects the microphone like as if it was a whole headset and "steals" the game audio from optical. Xbox is even more challenging than the 360 in this respect.
> 
> ...


 
 All great info Evshrug and I'm right on page with you (Yes I want just Stereo. Not a fan of virtual surround sound). Amazon has the Z for $68 bucks, but I was looking at the Zx because of the volume control since I read the issue with the Z is a lack of a gain control. So setting the window volume to around 10 on low impedance cans seems to be standard. So I was thinking the volume control on the ACM would help combat some of this, but then after thinking about it I never mess with the volume once I have it set anyhow so the standard Z will be best option.
  
 As far as the "electric waste" lol, I have not turned my PC off in 6 years hahaha. Not really but pretty darn close. I work in the IT field so computers is my forte. It won't be a issue with the computer on all the time, it is already and PS4 in sleep mode until game time.
  
 My only concern is how will I be flipping between PC or PS4 output to the headphones? I've never ran a optical IN connection on a sound card, in the creative UI is there a option to choose between the "optical in" or is both audio pushed through at same time?
  
 My thing is, if I can get a year out the Sound Blaster Z setup with my PS4 run through the card and the card amping the headphones. Then for $68 bucks that is a pretty good price point for the options.
  
 I'm also going to grab a USB blue snowball.


----------



## JakiChan

stillhart said:


> Nope.  But you can still find the 5.8 on eBay...


 
 Right, but it doesn't work without the magic cable.
  
 What about some sort of wireless toslink transceiver and a wireless USB thing?


----------



## lenroot77

I'm thinking about trying out some AKGs, as I've never had them before. Leaning twords the Q701s, but was also considering the K701's or 612's. I've read the reviews here and elsewhere. Just curious if anyone here has a preference on one over the other and why? 

I have an amp so power is not an issue. Currently have dt990's, ath a700's and PC 350 SE's, I don't think any of these are too similar in sound signature to the Q701's?

Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> All great info Evshrug and I'm right on page with you (Yes I want just Stereo. Not a fan of virtual surround sound). Amazon has the Z for $68 bucks, but I was looking at the Zx because of the volume control since I read the issue with the Z is a lack of a gain control. So setting the window volume to around 10 on low impedance cans seems to be standard. So I was thinking the volume control on the ACM would help combat some of this, but then after thinking about it I never mess with the volume once I have it set anyhow so the standard Z will be best option.
> 
> As far as the "electric waste" lol, I have not turned my PC off in 6 years hahaha. Not really but pretty darn close. I work in the IT field so computers is my forte. It won't be a issue with the computer on all the time, it is already and PS4 in sleep mode until game time.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Keep in mind that the only thing the volume know on the Zx does is adjust the Windows volume so it's the same thing.  But, if you want an external volume control and don't want to pay for the Zx, check out the Omni too.  It's the same thing as the Z, just USB instead of PCI.
  
 I haven't tried, but I assume it works the same as any other audio inputs in Windows.  Click the little speaker in the lower left (system tray), then click "Mixer",  It'll bring up all your volumes and you just adjust as needed.  If that doesn't work, right click the speaker and go to "recording devices" insead of "playback devices".  The Z software probably has sliders for this too.
  


jakichan said:


> Right, but it doesn't work without the magic cable.
> 
> What about some sort of wireless toslink transceiver and a wireless USB thing?


 
  
 I use it without the magic cable on my Xbox One and it works perfectly fine.  I think it's only an issue on the PS4.


----------



## benbenkr

evshrug said:


> So, I actually put the question to Creative, and they specifically said the headphone output impedance is 2.2 ohms.
> 
> Like I said earlier, Texas Instruments recommended a 10 ohm output impedance, but it's not built into the TPA6120A. Creative's engineers must've found another solution instead of a 10 ohm resistor to manage current.
> 
> So Whaddya know, it IS MADE FOR ALL YOUR BEAUTIFUL HEADPHONES, haha!


 
  
 This is a very late reply, but thanks for proving me wrong. So the X7 then, isn't just an external ZxR. It's better than it!
  
 Bummer that HOHOHO3 bug on their site doesn't work anymore. BTW, if it doesn't trouble you, can you check the op-amps on the X7? I just want final confirmation if Creative did change the op-amps that came with the ZxR on the X7 or not. 
  
 The ZxR op-amps were 2 LME 49710NA and JRC 2114s. Would be another point in tweaking flavour for the X7 as well.


----------



## Evshrug

jakichan said:


> Right, but it doesn't work without the magic cable.
> 
> What about some sort of wireless toslink transceiver and a wireless USB thing?



I'm Wondering if the GoPro video camera's USB-to-analogue mic cable will achieve the same thing, but most people use Turtle Beach's PS4 chat cable and connect that to the Dual Shock 4's headphone jack and the mixamp 5.8. I personally didn't mind attaching a clip-on mic to my 360's controller, but for some reason I never took to the Mixamp 5.8 setup.




stillhart said:


> Keep in mind that the only thing the volume know on the Zx does is adjust the Windows volume so it's the same thing.  But, if you want an external volume control and don't want to pay for the Zx, check out the Omni too.  It's the same thing as the Z, just USB instead of PCI.
> 
> I use it without the magic cable on my Xbox One and it works perfectly fine.  I think it's only an issue on the PS4.



The "magic cable" is a USB DAC recoignized as a microphone. The PS4 could be connected to the 5.8 in the same way as on the Xbox.

I don't think the Omni has an optical input. Also, the Omni's volume controls Window's digital gain setting, while the Zx's ACM is a passive analogue thing that leaves the computer's volume setting the same, and then attenuates the sound downwards from that output (much like the volume dials built into some gaming headset wires). It's a resistor in the signal path, it will degrade audio quality a bit but whether it's bothersome whilst playing is up for subjective opinion.


----------



## Evshrug

benbenkr said:


> This is a very late reply, but thanks for proving me wrong. So the X7 then, isn't just an external ZxR. It's better than it!
> 
> The ZxR op-amps were 2 [COLOR=000000]LME 49710NA and JRC 2114s[/COLOR][COLOR=666666].[/COLOR] [COLOR=000000]Would be another point in tweaking flavour for the X7 as well.[/COLOR]



I'll show ya in my review, away from Mad's headphone page


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I'm Wondering if the GoPro video camera's USB-to-analogue mic cable will achieve the same thing, but most people use Turtle Beach's PS4 chat cable and connect that to the Dual Shock 4's headphone jack and the mixamp 5.8. I personally didn't mind attaching a clip-on mic to my 360's controller, but for some reason I never took to the Mixamp 5.8 setup.
> The "magic cable" is a USB DAC recoignized as a microphone. The PS4 could be connected to the 5.8 in the same way as on the Xbox.
> 
> I don't think the Omni has an optical input. *Also, the Omni's volume controls Window's digital gain setting, while the Zx's ACM is a passive analogue thing that leaves the computer's volume setting the same, and then attenuates the sound downwards from that output (much like the volume dials built into some gaming headset wires). It's a resistor in the signal path, it will degrade audio quality a bit but whether it's bothersome whilst playing is up for subjective opinion.*


 
  
 Ah, thanks for the correction. I thought they were the same thing, but I guess they're not.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Ah, thanks for the correction. I thought they were the same thing, but I guess they're not.



Yeah, the Omni changes the PC volume like the volume keys on some keyboards do, while the ACM is more of an attenuator.


----------



## LINKUZZZ

Did I miss the update on the Philips Fidelio X2. I'd like to know how they compare to other headphones in the guide. What rating do they get on the fun, competitive, and comfort scale? I'd like to know because I'm shopping for headphones over the holidays. I'd like to pair the X2, V-moda mic, and Creative X7 together for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't reviewed it yet, but I can give you a short answer: It's my fave headphone for all around use. It does everything well. Gaming, music, comfort, soundstage, bass, vocals, clarity, etc. Philips knocked it out of the ballpark. It will be my #1 recommendation for those that want a headphone that does everything at least good or better. I'm not saying it's the best at any one thing. I'm saying that the whole package makes it a must have if you need that one headphone that can handle anything.


----------



## pebuzerA

hello people this board and compatible with my DSS2 to just turn the microphone on xbox one? why here so am finding these .. http://www.amazon.com/igloon-TM-External-Channel-Adapter/dp/B00NLEAQ92/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1419108226&sr=8-13&keywords=adapter+7.1+usb


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Keep in mind that the only thing the volume know on the Zx does is adjust the Windows volume so it's the same thing.  But, if you want an external volume control and don't want to pay for the Zx, check out the Omni too.  It's the same thing as the Z, just USB instead of PCI.
> 
> I haven't tried, but I assume it works the same as any other audio inputs in Windows.  Click the little speaker in the lower left (system tray), then click "Mixer",  It'll bring up all your volumes and you just adjust as needed.  If that doesn't work, right click the speaker and go to "recording devices" insead of "playback devices".  The Z software probably has sliders for this too.


 
 Appreciate it Still,
  
 I looked at the Omni and it looks like the ticket for control, with that said I think I'll still go the Z route just for the amping power. If I'm not mistaken the Omni is a little weaker. It could be a addition down the road to make controlling everything easier.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Appreciate it Still,
> 
> I looked at the Omni and it looks like the ticket for control, with that said I think I'll still go the Z route just for the amping power. If I'm not mistaken the Omni is a little weaker. It could be a addition down the road to make controlling everything easier.


 
  
 I don't recall the specs off the top of my head, but I do recall the difference was like 105 (of something) to 107 (of something), which I don't consider material.  I ended up with the Omni over the Z simply because I got it cheaper at the time.  I'm sure you'll be happy with either.


----------



## High Fidelity

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't reviewed it yet, but I can give you a short answer: It's my fave headphone for all around use. It does everything well. Gaming, music, comfort, soundstage, bass, vocals, clarity, etc. Philips knocked it out of the ballpark. It will be my #1 recommendation for those that want a headphone that does everything at least good or better. I'm not saying it's the best at any one thing. I'm saying that the whole package makes it a must have if you need that one headphone that can handle anything.


 
 What's the ETA on the Fidelio X2 review? As of now what number rating would you put for Competitive? The X1 received an 8. Does the X2 surpass it?


----------



## rudyae86

Probably 8.25 because it has slightly less bass and more clarity....at least from what I have read. There might be more to it but i dont think it will ever get a 9 or 9.5, if thats what you want to hear.


----------



## Sam21

lol


----------



## Evshrug

Omni doesn't have an optical input for the game console:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Probably 8.25 because it has slightly less bass and more clarity....at least from what I have read. There might be more to it but i dont think it will ever get a 9 or 9.5, if thats what you want to hear.




This. Also, while the X2 is clearer, it's soundstage isn't as wide as wide as the X1s. Think DT880 vs 990 though the X2 has better depth than the 880 for sure. It still has a very good soundstage, just saying the X1 reaches out farther, IIRC. I don't feel comfortable confirming this as I don't have the X1. I don't remember it's sonic characteristics quite well though. There are some headphones I can easily remember and pick out in a blind test. The X1 is one of those.


----------



## AxelCloris

Looks like I missed out on that X7 sale while I was on vacation. I only had service for a few hours in Puerto Rico and Grand Turk. Boo on that. Oh well. I should be able to game for a bit this week (end of the week, really) on the Geek Pulse. That promises to be interesting.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Looks like I missed out on that X7 sale while I was on vacation. I only had service for a few hours in Puerto Rico and Grand Turk. Boo on that. Oh well. I should be able to game for a bit this week (end of the week, really) on the Geek Pulse. That promises to be interesting.


 
 That sale was technically an error that was fixed within a few minutes.  Most people missed it.  :-/


----------



## pinkfloyd1173

I have run this set up on my rig and ps4, pretty simple really. I have the Sound Blaster Z card in my rig, what you can do is, run optical cable from ps4 to Z card, on the z card interface you have to pick cinematic, DDL. And thats pretty much it, you can use your pc speakers or plug your headset in to the Z card, the only thing is that you will not be able to use chat, what I mean is that you will be able to hear your friends but your mic will not work.
  
 Now the other option is to just plug a 3.5mm mic into controller( your smart phone headphones will work) or you can get a usb mic and plug that into the ps4, and you can know use the chat feature. 
  
 My set up is this, Steelseries siberia V2, 2gen astro mix amp, ps4, the way I have it connected is . Ps4 connected to Z card (optical in on Z card) Mixamp connected to Z card( optical out) you have to pick cinematic DDL on the Z card. On the PS4 you have to pick PCM not Dolby 5.1 and thats pretty much it. You are able to use your mic with no issues at all, its funny because if I use this set up the the V2's are 100% louder, dont know why but they are. 
  
 You can turn off the eq features on the sound card and just use the mixamp and it sounds great, but I just leave the eq features on the Z card and mix amp and I have no issues at all.


----------



## face2k

When using the Recon3d I'm using pc mode while connected to my PS4 and USB connected to my PC
 I recently changed the Windows volume to 100% and then lowering the sound in game on my ps4
 The sound was much better then when my windows volume was at 20%~30%
 Is it my imagination?


----------



## shuto77

Stillhart
Hi-

Thanks for the quick response! The receiver has 2 or 3 headphone surround modes that are just ok, but not great. I grabbed the mixamp (in July) to see if the surround sound effect was better- it was. The other reason is because I know of no other way to send/receive chat audio w/ the avr in the chain. 

I guess my question then is whether a headphone amp (one of the $100-$150 schiit or fiio ones) can be hooked up to the receiver to improve the avr's headphone surround sound performance. 

Also, as this is an hdmi-enabled receiver, I would assume using optical over hdmi would be a downgrade. Is that not necessarily the case? 

Thanks again!


----------



## Stillhart

shuto77 said:


> @Stillhart
> Hi-
> 
> Is there any way to hook my mixamp to my Pioneer avr to use Dolby Headphone?
> ...


 
  
 Your AVR has headphone surround built-in.  I don't know how good it is, but you could always try it first before buying a mixamp and see what you think.  Should be as simple as running your optical from PS4 to AVR, plugging in your headphones and making sure it's in surround mode.  
  
 The surround may or may not be good, but you can be pretty sure it'll sound good otherwise.


----------



## conquerator2

face2k said:


> When using the Recon3d I'm using pc mode while connected to my PS4 and USB connected to my PC
> I recently changed the Windows volume to 100% and then lowering the sound in game on my ps4
> The sound was much better then when my windows volume was at 20%~30%
> Is it my imagination?


 
 Nope.
 By lowering the Windows volume, you're actually taking away bits/sonic information.
 As a rule of thumb, it is always recommended to keep the Windows volume at max, and lower the volume elsewhere [pre-amplifier, amplifier, source, etc.]


----------



## Evshrug

Pinkfloyd1173,
That setup IS true and gets you stereo sound. You don't need to turn on DDL output though, since the Sounblaster Z is only getting stereo info anyway. In your personal setup where you passthrough the audio to the Mixamp, what exactly does the Mixamp add for you?

Generally recommend turning computer's "digital" volume to max and adjusting volume on an external amp. Now, sometimes that's just too much gain/volume for me, so I'll still use the external amp for volume control and just ease a bit off of the PC digital volume, and use 24-bit playback because you get a lot more room to turn down the gain before you start losing audible sound quality.


----------



## shuto77

[quote name="Stillhart" url="/t/534479
[/quote]

Looks like the headfi monster ate my last reply. 

Thanks for the info, Stillhart! I actually picked up the mixamp to see if the surround sound effect was better than the avr's-- it was. 

My follow-up question was going to be whether a headphone amp could improve the surround sound effect of the avr, but it looks like that won't matter, as the avr only outputs to headphones in stereo, not 5.1 as the mixamp does. I assume that 5.1 over optical (mixamp) is > 2.0 over hdmi (avr). 

I will try to hook up the mixamp to the receiver and see what happens.

Thanks!


----------



## pinkfloyd1173

evshrug said:


> Pinkfloyd1173,
> That setup IS true and gets you stereo sound. You don't need to turn on DDL output though, since the Sounblaster Z is only getting stereo info anyway. In your personal setup where you passthrough the audio to the Mixamp, what exactly does the Mixamp add for you?
> 
> Generally recommend turning computer's "digital" volume to max and adjusting volume on an external amp. Now, sometimes that's just too much gain/volume for me, so I'll still use the external amp for volume control and just ease a bit off of the PC digital volume, and use 24-bit playback because you get a lot more room to turn down the gain before you start losing audible sound quality.


 
  
 Hey Evshrug,
  
 You have to turn on DDL on the Z card and linear PCM on the ps4, if not it will give a high popping sound though the headset or speakers. 
  
 The mix amp lets me use the chat on the ps4 plus also makes the headset louder for some reason? For me it works great I get virtual surround sound.


----------



## Stillhart

shuto77 said:


> [quote name="Stillhart" url="/t/534479


 
 Looks like the headfi monster ate my last reply.

 Thanks for the info, Stillhart! I actually picked up the mixamp to see if the surround sound effect was better than the avr's-- it was.

 My follow-up question was going to be whether a headphone amp could improve the surround sound effect of the avr, but it looks like that won't matter, as the avr only outputs to headphones in stereo, not 5.1 as the mixamp does. I assume that 5.1 over optical (mixamp) is > 2.0 over hdmi (avr).

 I will try to hook up the mixamp to the receiver and see what happens.

 Thanks![/quote]

  
 You are very confused at what's going on and it's confusing me.  Let me see if I can try to help:
  
 1 - You tried the surround from your AVR
 2 - You bought a Mixamp and like the surround processing better
 3 - Now you want to try to use the AVR to make the Mixamp sound better?
  
 The only way I can think to do this is to use the AVR to amp your Mixamp.  Run the optical from PS4 to Mixamp.  Run the headphone output from your mixamp to your AVR via RCA.  Plug your headphones into the AVR and make sure surround processing is turned off.  This will use the AVR to amp the output of your Mixamp.
  
 EDIT - Of course it's always possible that it's just me who's confused.  Likely even!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I gathered he wanted to do.

To clarify, turn off the surround on the AVR, not the Mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

pinkfloyd1173 said:


> Hey Evshrug,
> 
> You have to turn on DDL on the Z card and linear PCM on the ps4, if not it will give a high popping sound though the headset or speakers.
> 
> The mix amp lets me use the chat on the ps4 plus also makes the headset louder for some reason? For me it works great I get virtual surround sound.



Ok cool, I getcha.
Do you still get the popping sound if the PS4 outputs PCM *but the Z has DDL turned off?* It shouldn't be popping with that setup, if so I had a similar issue and doing a FIRMWARE update from Creative's website solved that for me (mine used to pop whenever I used a microphone). If you like the sound, then what I say next doesn't matter, but what you're doing is basically the PS4 takes positional data and makes a flat stereo output (PCM), then your Z is set to fake a 5.1 speaker mix from that (DDL), then your Mixamp is making that signal into a stereo output (DH). Each conversion is lossy, so there's going to be some distortion and inaccurate positioning.
At least the Mixamp pulls it all together.

If I recall correctly, Harmon Kardon (and everyone) stopped using Dolby Headphone in their receivers a few years back, your receiver might be using HK's in-house (and cheaper for HK) simulated surround processing. In that case I can see why the Mixamp would be an improvement. In that setup, I'd turn off any processing on the HK so that you don't "double-dip," and I'd hook it up like: PS4>Mixamp Optical>HK Receiver analog-in> headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

If anyone wants to use a BoomPro with an AKG 7-series headphone, apparently ZombieX is back in business and ordering the parts to make more adapters one week from now, quantity based on how many orders he gets:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted/60_30#post_11146627

(Testing program is over)


----------



## Change is Good

Yup, my adaptor is already on its way. Should arrive around the same day as my K7XX does.


----------



## calpis

Imagine my surprise when I came home to see these on the doorstep on a Sunday.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its so pretty.


----------



## Toxos

My AKG K7XX arrives today! Can't wait to open them up


----------



## phobia337

pinkfloyd1173 said:


> I have run this set up on my rig and ps4, pretty simple really. I have the Sound Blaster Z card in my rig, what you can do is, run optical cable from ps4 to Z card, on the z card interface you have to pick cinematic, DDL. And thats pretty much it, you can use your pc speakers or plug your headset in to the Z card, the only thing is that you will not be able to use chat, what I mean is that you will be able to hear your friends but your mic will not work.
> 
> Now the other option is to just plug a 3.5mm mic into controller( your smart phone headphones will work) or you can get a usb mic and plug that into the ps4, and you can know use the chat feature.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks a bunch for this post, pretty much confirmed my setup will work how I want it to. 
  


evshrug said:


> Ok cool, I getcha.
> Do you still get the popping sound if the PS4 outputs PCM *but the Z has DDL turned off?* It shouldn't be popping with that setup, if so I had a similar issue and doing a FIRMWARE update from Creative's website solved that for me (mine used to pop whenever I used a microphone). If you like the sound, then what I say next doesn't matter, but what you're doing is basically the PS4 takes positional data and makes a flat stereo output (PCM), then your Z is set to fake a 5.1 speaker mix from that (DDL), then your Mixamp is making that signal into a stereo output (DH). Each conversion is lossy, so there's going to be some distortion and inaccurate positioning.
> At least the Mixamp pulls it all together.


 
 Good info, I'll see how my setup needs to be run once the Z card comes in. I'll keep this in mind to prevent so many conversions. 
  


> Originally Posted by *Toxos* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> My AKG K7XX arrives today! Can't wait to open them up


 
 My AKG K612 looks to be arriving today or tomorrow at the latest, PUMPED!!!


----------



## Stillhart

Speaking of pumped, I just can't leave well enough alone.  My wallet and wife hate Head-fi.  My body, however, is ready for Fazor technology.


----------



## Toxos

phobia337 said:


> Thanks a bunch for this post, pretty much confirmed my setup will work how I want it to.
> 
> Good info, I'll see how my setup needs to be run once the Z card comes in. I'll keep this in mind to prevent so many conversions.
> 
> My AKG K612 looks to be arriving today or tomorrow at the latest, PUMPED!!!


 
 JUST ARRIVED! Can't wait to go home from work. GAHH


----------



## draven5494

Just chiming in to say that the K7XX and X7 are a match made in heaven.  Fantastic sound.  Loving these headphones right out of the box.


----------



## FDDreamer

I wonder if I can ask you all for some advice on my first set of proper headphones?
  
 I will be using these for gaming (mainly Borderlands, Final Fantasy etc...not anything particularly competitive) as well as listening to music (classical, EDM and pop mainly).  They'll be driven by a Sound Blaster ZX.
  
 I'm hoping to find something that is very comfortable, has a good sound stage and a sound that is detailed without being dull.  I guess I mean I'd like a little bass but not so much that drowns anything else out.  I'm finding that last point a tough one as I've never listened to a set of proper headphones!  Often I hear people comment something like the AKG K701 has no bass at all, but I don't know if they're being literal or just comparing it to something else.
  
 FWIW, I use the Steelseries Siberia V2 at the moment.  I like them a lot (I've had many gaming headsets but I always return to these due to their overall sound and comfort) but want something that enables me to listen to music a little better and provide a greater sound stage.  I doubt anything will be more comfortable, but anywhere close is enough!  I also own a Sound Blaster Tactic3D Omega, which did sound better than the Siberias (before I got the ZX) but were too uncomfortable due to the pads squishing my ears.  So I'd like to avoid that pitfall!
  
 My budget is around £200 (or a little over $300).  I've read almost all the reviews Mad Lust Envy has written here, as well as a large number of other Head-Fi reviews and some from Inner Fidelity.  But the more I read the more confused I get!
  
 My short-list at the moment is:
  
 Philips Fidelio X1 (£180)
 AKG K702 (£160)
 AKG Q701 (£180)
 Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250 (£160)
 Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro (£130)
 V-Moda M100 (£200)
 Denon D600 (£180)
  
 I think the bottom 2 would be too bass-heavy, and perhaps don't offer the sound stage I'm after.  Not read much on the COP, but it looks interesting with the adjustable bass and is keenly-priced.  The 990 had a glowing review here, but others (Inner Fidelity) seem to think much less of it especially for music.  The AKGs I guess are very similar to each other and would have the least bass of the listed headphones.  But would that be too little for me?  And is there any reason to spend more on the Q701 vs the K702?  Finally, the X1 seems to tick all the boxes, but I've read a lot of people have had build issues with them which scares me as the model is discontinued.  Plus it seems many common issues weren't covered by the manufacturer even when they were an active model!
  
 As you can probably tell I'm a bit lost.  Any advice would be most welcome!


----------



## Stillhart

The last three on your list are all closed-back headphones so they'll be bass-heavy with less soundstage than their open counterparts.  Unless you need a closed headphone (playing in a loud area and need the isolation), I'd recommend an open one.
  
 Regarding your other choices, I think the K612 and the Fidelio X2 might be your best choices.  I haven't heard either, but I've heard the Q701 and X1 and based on comparisons to those two, I think those will be good choices.


----------



## pinkfloyd1173

Ok cool, I getcha.
 Do you still get the popping sound if the PS4 outputs PCM *but the Z has DDL turned off?* It shouldn't be popping with that setup, if so I had a similar issue and doing a FIRMWARE update from Creative's website solved that for me (mine used to pop whenever I used a microphone). If you like the sound, then what I say next doesn't matter, but what you're doing is basically the PS4 takes positional data and makes a flat stereo output (PCM), then your Z is set to fake a 5.1 speaker mix from that (DDL), then your Mixamp is making that signal into a stereo output (DH). Each conversion is lossy, so there's going to be some distortion and inaccurate positioning.
 At least the Mixamp pulls it all together.
  
  
 You have to use the DDL on the Z card, if not you will not get any sound from the ps4, I dont know why but it will not work that way man.
  
  
 (UPDATE) 
  
 It does work without using the DDL on the Z card, did not know this I guess that up date that I did a few weeks ago changed this????
  
  
 (UPDATE 2) 
  
  
 You do need DDL on the Z card to be enabled if not you will not get any sound from the astro mix amp.


----------



## Toxos

draven5494 said:


> Just chiming in to say that the K7XX and X7 are a match made in heaven.  Fantastic sound.  Loving these headphones right out of the box.


 
 Are you using them for gaming? And/or what other purposes? Please explain a bit more. You may sway me to get the X7


----------



## draven5494

toxos said:


> Are you using them for gaming? And/or what other purposes? Please explain a bit more. You may sway me to get the X7




Just unboxed them today and have only listened to music through them so far. I'm digging the K7XX/X7 combo quite a bit though. Plenty of detail, great soundstage and no harshness whatsoever. 

I will be doing some gaming on them soon though.


----------



## FDDreamer

Quote:


stillhart said:


> The last three on your list are all closed-back headphones so they'll be bass-heavy with less soundstage than their open counterparts.  Unless you need a closed headphone (playing in a loud area and need the isolation), I'd recommend an open one.
> 
> Regarding your other choices, I think the K612 and the Fidelio X2 might be your best choices.  I haven't heard either, but I've heard the Q701 and X1 and based on comparisons to those two, I think those will be good choices.


 
  
 Thanks for your input, Stillhart.  They'll mainly be used at night once the kids are sleeping, so there's little to no noise I need to shut out, and similarly little need to isolate the noise the headphones themselves generate.  So open it is! 
  
 I've not looked at the K612, although it seems they're a fair bit cheaper than the other models (seem to be available for ~£100) which is interesting!  And I do love the look of the X2 but it is slightly out of my budget for now.  Perhaps I'll wait for the sales to start.
  
 One other quick question...in the case of the AKG sets, would I ruin the balance of the headphones by adjusting the bass level via an equaliser or other software?  I'm guessing it's not done for a good reason, but being ignorant I thought I'd ask!


----------



## Stillhart

fddreamer said:


> Quote:
> 
> Thanks for your input, Stillhart.  They'll mainly be used at night once the kids are sleeping, so there's little to no noise I need to shut out, and similarly little need to isolate the noise the headphones themselves generate.  So open it is!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Why would you want to adjust the bass with EQ?  To lower it?  I've found that people on here tend to feel pretty strongly about EQ, usually they're against it.  I have no strong opinion one way or the other.  Mostly I just think that there's not much reason for it if you get the right headphone to begin with.  You'd have to talk to other folks about it.
  
 The AKG's are typically considered bass-light, tho many who love them think they're just right.  The K612 supposedly has a little more bass than the K7-- series which makes for a more "fun" headphone. It's what you want if you're not too concerned about competitive gaming.  You personally probably need something that's fun but not too bassy?


----------



## Change is Good

*FDDreamer*, you may also want to look into the SoundMAGIC HP200, or even the HP100/150 if you want closed.


----------



## Stillhart

There is a used HP200 on the classified last I checked for $130.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Finally got my K7XX a moment ago, #604!
  
 First impressions are that it delivers what I recall liking about the K612 and K712 from before. Comfort, pleasing sound signature and soundstage, still sounds pretty good directly driven from the X-Fi Titanium HD - definitely a keeper.
  
 Now if I could just get my hands on one of those BoomPro adapters and a BoomPro mic to match, just for something a little more elegant in the cord department than the stock cord and the ModMic 4.0...
  
 In the meantime, who's interested in my MA900?


----------



## face2k

This is a very noobish question but I have a recon3D and I need an amp can I use a DAC/AMP or tube DAC/AMP as an amp?
 are there any benefits? or should I just stick to using an amp?
 Where I live its really hard to find headphone amps that aren't DAC/AMP combo also the cheapest I can find an AMP us only a bit cheaper than the combo


----------



## Stillhart

face2k said:


> This is a very noobish question but I have a recon3D and I need an amp can I use a DAC/AMP or tube DAC/AMP as an amp?
> are there any benefits? or should I just stick to using an amp?
> Where I live its really hard to find headphone amps that aren't DAC/AMP combo also the cheapest I can find an AMP us only a bit cheaper than the combo


 
  
 The DAC isn't going to be used, just the amp.  If the DAC/Amp has an analogue input (sometimes called Line In), you should be able to use it in just amp mode.  If it only accepts digital inputs (USB/Optical/Coax) then you won't be able to use it with your Recon.


----------



## butnero

Hey guys,
  
 I've been looking hard for a Headset for my PC/Xbox One(Mainly, 360 would be nice too) I play both and lots of games but for sound what I want is accurate positioning for FPS games, I don't really care about the rest and I would like to have the same experience on both platforms.
  
 I have a mixamp sparing from my forced retired a40's (my cat chewed the wires can't find anyone willing to try fixing it) but If there's a soundcard that works both PC/Xbox One(Mainly, 360 would be nice too) I'm willing to pay for it.
  
 What I want It's to hear a gunfire or footstep grenade pin and know exactly where it came from.
  
 For personal preferences I really liked the SteelSeries Siberia Elite, I like the brand itself but I didn't heard anything outstanding from those actually hard to hear anything from 'em, so basically that's it I want a headset with a legendary accurate positioning and my budget is around 300-350.
  
 I hope you guys might help me ):
  
 edit: headphones I'm interested aswell


----------



## rudyae86

Keeping it simple but

G4ME ONE, G4ME ZERO, Kingaton Hyper X Cloud


I cant think of any other headset that are worth mentioning, espwcially with your budget.

But personally, I would go with the G4ME ONE, should be the same as the HD558/HD598 which MLE has given a good rating on them for being great for FPS (HD598 im talking here).

Thats just what I would suggest in terma of headsets...

Now headphones......

Well there is plenty of options in the first page of this thread


----------



## butnero

Oh, I'm sorry im cool with headfones also, I was checking on the akg k7xx I've heard it's just to set up a mic and I'm good I care really about the positioning and I read alot but couldn't come with a precise conclusion
  
 EDIT:I'm wondering if an amp would be good and also would work on xbox aswell


----------



## calpis

namelesspfg said:


> Finally got my K7XX a moment ago, #604!


 
 I somehow managed to get #305


----------



## Toxos

calpis said:


> I somehow managed to get #305


 
 Dang... I got something around #1300.. At first I thought it was 1337 but I think it was close.. something around 1373 or so. Love the headphones so far though!
  
 I decided to do some testing with youtube and 3d positioning. There was an alarm that went off in the recording that was sooo well placed and so well reproduced that I took my headphones off to see what was going on. I then realized it was the recording. Fantastic for positioning!


----------



## Elf-1

Pff these Astro Mixamps are hard to find here in The Netherlands


----------



## phobia337

My AKG K612s arrived yesterday!! I was able to test them out on couple different games. First impressions, I'm really impressed with the open air. I never knew a headphone could really sound like a real surround sound speaker system. I found myself looking over my shoulder couple times thinking a sound was coming from another room but was instead in the depth of the sound stage.......really neat! 
  
The highs are really crisp and I was sonic creeping on people. I could hear people footsteps plain as day through walls that I never heard before. I felt like I was cheating at time hahaha. 
  
The bass was tight and featured plenty of low rumble for my liking. They are far from a bass heavy phone but still provided plenty of bass in my opinion. Interested to see how the Z can help in this area with a little equalizer. 
  
The mids I felt were set back and I was not happy with it at first. They were being covered up by the highs and bass, but it was not till I cranked them up that everything seem to balance out more. The mids are still my least impressed area of the phone, but I'm hoping some burn in and amping will correct this.
  
Now the big factor......comfort..........WOW. No joke, these are the most comfortable pair of cans I've owned/wore and now see why MLE complains about Sennheiser clamp force. I came from the HD 280 Pros to these, its like going from a pleather vice, to two gentle pillows pressing on the sides of my head. While they are super light, I did get a slight discomfort after couple hours from the leather headband. I'm thinking a wool wrap like they sell for the Beyerdynamics would help give it just a touch of padding. 
 
 Overall in my short time (6pm to midnight) I feel like I made the right decision to go with the AKG 612s. They appear to be everything I was after.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> My AKG K612s arrived yesterday!! I was able to test them out on couple different games. First impressions, I'm really impressed with the open air. I never knew a headphone could really sound like a real surround sound speaker system. I found myself looking over my shoulder couple times thinking a sound was coming from another room but was instead in the depth of the sound stage.......really neat!
> 
> The highs are really crisp and I was sonic creeping on people. I could hear people footsteps plain as day through walls that I never heard before. I felt like I was cheating at time hahaha.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you know anyone with a small child's car seat that they don't use anymore, the seatbelt cover pads work great as headphone pads for the AKG's.  I use one of my son's old ones.  Evs just got one from a baby store.  They're like $10/pair.
  
 Glad you're enjoying them!  Always good to see a satisfied head-fi noob come back to share their impressions.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> If you know anyone with a small child's car seat that they don't use anymore, the seatbelt cover pads work great as headphone pads for the AKG's.  I use one of my son's old ones.  Evs just got one from a baby store.  They're like $10/pair.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying them!  Always good to see a satisfied head-fi noob come back to share their impressions.


 
 This is the kind of info you find out from a vet lol!!! Wife is going to know something is up when I'm asking to go to Babies-R-Us haha.
  
 Speaking of head-fi noob, how do you get FLAC music? Also what is the format a CD carries? When it comes to "quality" of music, I'm not sure what I'm looking for.


----------



## LINKUZZZ

I decided to get the *Philips Fidelio X2* as my next headphone, I'm just waiting on a decent sale. I'm Canadian and headphone prices are pretty ridiculous here. Some headphones sell for almost double what they sell for in the US. Philips is generally not sold everywhere, which is why they might be selling part of their company. Right now the lowest price for the X2 is on Amazon.com US at $299 USD ($348 CND) with free shipping. Not a bad deal, but I'm sure there will be a sale as the X1 had 2 sales on Amazon.com within the past 4 weeks. Now the X1 headphone is being sold for $221 USD ($257 CAD) [26% off] on Amazon.com plus free shipping. The lowest Canadian seller is Hookbag.ca at $270 CAD, which isn't that bad, if I hadn't made up my mind to get the X2.
  
 The tricky part is getting the Sound Blaster X7 on sale this early.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> This is the kind of info you find out from a vet lol!!! Wife is going to know something is up when I'm asking to go to Babies-R-Us haha.
> 
> Speaking of head-fi noob, how do you get FLAC music? Also what is the format a CD carries? When it comes to "quality" of music, I'm not sure what I'm looking for.


 
  
 I'll send you a PM.  We're getting way off topic now.
  


linkuzzz said:


> I decided to get the *Philips Fidelio X2* as my next headphone, I'm just waiting on a decent sale. I'm Canadian and headphone prices are pretty ridiculous here. Some headphones sell for almost double what they sell for in the US. Philips is generally not sold everywhere, which is why they might be selling part of their company. Right now the lowest price for the X2 is on Amazon.com US at $299 USD ($348 CND) with free shipping. Not a bad deal, but I'm sure there will be a sale as the X1 had 2 sales on Amazon.com within the past 4 weeks. Now the X1 headphone is being sold for $221 USD ($257 CAD) [26% off] on Amazon.com plus free shipping. The lowest Canadian seller is Hookbag.ca at $270 CAD, which isn't that bad, if I hadn't made up my mind to get the X2.
> 
> The tricky part is getting the Sound Blaster X7 on sale this early.


 
  
 Keep in mind that the X2 is pretty brand new; it's only been out for a month or two.  I think it's unlikely to see a sale price anytime soon.  Especially since it didn't see a single price cut on Black Friday.  IMO, your best bet is to keep an eye on Amazon Warehouse Deals for an open-box return.


----------



## butnero

hey guys which do u think has a best positioning akg k7xx or 612pro?
  
 also does MixAmp change the way it sounds or it's somekind of 'adapter'?
  
 I heard that with 612pro u should get an amp cause the sound low... any thoughts on that?


----------



## Toxos

I think i just realized something. Since I live at home, I have my pc and ps4 right next to each other, but once i move out from where I am currently, the pc and ps4 may not be as close to each other as they are now (possibly across the room or even in a different room). So now that I have thought about that, I want to ask if it would be better to just buy something like the creative ZxR or an Asus essence STX II or something of the sort so that I can still get surround sound for pc once they are split. 
  
 I am still kinda considering the x7 but I am worried that for $400 it may not be worth it JUST for the ps4 in the long run. Ideas?
  
 Since phobia337 thought about getting a pc soundcard and running to ps4 that way via toslink, I feel that may just work until I move out.


----------



## butnero

Does this x7 work with ps4/xbox one/pc?


----------



## Toxos

butnero said:


> Does this x7 work with ps4/xbox one/pc?


 
 According to Creative, yes.


----------



## cdsa35000

^^^If you moved out, you might to consider for a real 5.1/7.1 loudspeakers setup like:
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V375-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00B981F38
They can do HDMI Uncompressed HD Surround Audio, where else DD5.1 optical is Compressed audio.
And yamaha has silent cinema surround for headphones.


----------



## Toxos

cdsa35000 said:


> ^^^If you moved out, you might to consider for a real 5.1/7.1 loudspeakers setup like:
> http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V375-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00B981F38
> They can do HDMI Uncompressed HD Surround Audio, where else DD5.1 optical is Compressed audio.
> And yamaha has silent cinema surround for headphones.


 
 Hmm that looks nice. So that would be for the tv/ps4 and whatever speaker system I decide on if they part, correct? If yes, I would still need a pc solution although I did ask the computer forum for that but you are more than welcome to give suggestions


----------



## FDDreamer

stillhart said:


> Why would you want to adjust the bass with EQ?  To lower it?  I've found that people on here tend to feel pretty strongly about EQ, usually they're against it.  I have no strong opinion one way or the other.  Mostly I just think that there's not much reason for it if you get the right headphone to begin with.  You'd have to talk to other folks about it.
> 
> The AKG's are typically considered bass-light, tho many who love them think they're just right.  The K612 supposedly has a little more bass than the K7-- series which makes for a more "fun" headphone. It's what you want if you're not too concerned about competitive gaming.  You personally probably need something that's fun but not too bassy?


 
  
 I was thinking that if the only 'weakness' (as to many it may be a strength!) of the K701/K702/Q701 is the slightly subdued bass perhaps a quick bump to those frequencies via an equaliser might create a better sound.  But after doing more reading it appears that this is borderline heresy as would disrupt the balance of the headphone.  But you're bang-on with your summation, as I've not tried anything before it's probably safest to err on the side of 'fun' for now, and perhaps move into something more specialised (be it sound stage, bass/mid/treble emphasis etc) once I've actually discovered my preference!
  
 I read an excellent review here comparing the K612 against the K702.  It appeared to be exactly as you described - the signature AKG 7-series sound but with a touch more bass and, if anything, an even better sound stage for gaming.  At the current price (~£100) it seems almost too good to be true.  Since then I've discovered that the current batch is made in China, and sadly from inferior parts to the model used in that comparison (which was made in Austria).  And that worried me a little.
  


change is good said:


> *FDDreamer*, you may also want to look into the SoundMAGIC HP200, or even the HP100/150 if you want closed.


 
  
 Strangely enough I've just ordered a pair of E10S in-ear headphones!  Didn't realise they made bigger ones, so will give these a look.  It seems they retail for around the same as the X2 though - are they in that league? 


phobia337 said:


> My AKG K612s arrived yesterday!! I was able to test them out on couple different games. First impressions, I'm really impressed with the open air. I never knew a headphone could really sound like a real surround sound speaker system. I found myself looking over my shoulder couple times thinking a sound was coming from another room but was instead in the depth of the sound stage.......really neat!
> 
> The highs are really crisp and I was sonic creeping on people. I could hear people footsteps plain as day through walls that I never heard before. I felt like I was cheating at time hahaha.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you mind me asking where you got the K612 from?  I'm super-interested in your experience as I'm in a very similar position as yourself and have narrowed my choice down to either the K612, Fidelio X2 or possibly the HP200.  Seems like the X2 is the more well-rounded set, however it's literally twice the price of the K612!  And I think Stillhart made a very good point about the chances of the X2 dropping in price being relatively slim.


----------



## Change is Good

I chose to keep my HP200 and return the X2 because it was better for my gaming purposes. It had more air and separation, along with a wider soundstage. The HP200 is actually a lot like the K612, so whichever is cheaper will be your better choice.


----------



## benbenkr

toxos said:


> I think i just realized something. Since I live at home, I have my pc and ps4 right next to each other, but once i move out from where I am currently, the pc and ps4 may not be as close to each other as they are now (possibly across the room or even in a different room). So now that I have thought about that, I want to ask if it would be better to just buy something like the creative ZxR or an Asus essence STX II or something of the sort so that I can still get surround sound for pc once they are split.
> 
> *I am still kinda considering the x7 but I am worried that for $400 it may not be worth it JUST for the ps4 in the long run. Ideas?*
> 
> Since phobia337 thought about getting a pc soundcard and running to ps4 that way via toslink, I feel that may just work until I move out.


 
  
 I personally think that $400 just for the PS4 is quite a waste. The X7 is amazing, that much is definite. But $400 worth of amazingness? Nope.
  
  


cdsa35000 said:


> ^^^If you moved out, you might to consider for a real 5.1/7.1 loudspeakers setup like:
> http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V375-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00B981F38
> They can do HDMI Uncompressed HD Surround Audio, where else DD5.1 optical is Compressed audio.
> And yamaha has silent cinema surround for headphones.


 
  
  


toxos said:


> Hmm that looks nice. So that would be for the tv/ps4 and whatever speaker system I decide on if they part, correct? If yes, I would still need a pc solution although I did ask the computer forum for that but you are more than welcome to give suggestions


 
  
 Except, receivers are notorious for adding huge amount of input lag and Yamaha was (and still is) some of the biggest culprits.


----------



## Toxos

benbenkr said:


> I personally think that $400 just for the PS4 is quite a waste. The X7 is amazing, that much is definite. But $400 worth of amazingness? Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 So X7 would be great if I could use for pc and ps4. So it would be worth it for now but not the future if they are no longer close to each other. What should I do then? I only need one solution for both things for a few more months and then I will give them each their own solution.


----------



## phobia337

fddreamer said:


> I was thinking that if the only 'weakness' (as to many it may be a strength!) of the K701/K702/Q701 is the slightly subdued bass perhaps a quick bump to those frequencies via an equaliser might create a better sound.  But after doing more reading it appears that this is borderline heresy as would disrupt the balance of the headphone.  But you're bang-on with your summation, as I've not tried anything before it's probably safest to err on the side of 'fun' for now, and perhaps move into something more specialised (be it sound stage, bass/mid/treble emphasis etc) once I've actually discovered my preference!
> 
> I read an excellent review here comparing the K612 against the K702.  It appeared to be exactly as you described - the signature AKG 7-series sound but with a touch more bass and, if anything, an even better sound stage for gaming.  At the current price (~£100) it seems almost too good to be true.  Since then I've discovered that the current batch is made in China, and sadly from inferior parts to the model used in that comparison (which was made in Austria).  And that worried me a little.
> 
> ...


 
 I scored them on Ebay for $119 brand new. I lucked out to be honest.


----------



## Stillhart

@FDDreamer, You're perfectly entitled to your opinion on Chinese vs Austrian AKG's.  However, I have a Chinese Q701 and I've never had any issues with it.  I haven't met anyone in the Q701 thread who believes there is any material difference between versions.  They've been proven to sound identical as well.  
  
 What I'm trying to say is that there really isn't any logical grounds to worry about inferior quality when it comes to Chinese vs Austrian AKG's.  If it bothers you anyways, by all means, get something else.  But I wanted to make sure you're aware that there's not really any reason to worry about it.


----------



## Stillhart

benbenkr said:


> Except, receivers are notorious for adding huge amount of input lag and Yamaha was (and still is) some of the biggest culprits.


 
  
 If you run your video to the TV directly and only run the audio to the AVR, you bypass that.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> @FDDreamer, You're perfectly entitled to your opinion on Chinese vs Austrian AKG's.  However, I have a Chinese Q701 and I've never had any issues with it.  I haven't met anyone in the Q701 thread who believes there is any material difference between versions.  They've been proven to sound identical as well.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that there really isn't any logical grounds to worry about inferior quality when it comes to Chinese vs Austrian AKG's.  If it bothers you anyways, by all means, get something else.  But I wanted to make sure you're aware that there's not really any reason to worry about it.


 
 I tend to agree, because the company AKG is going to place quality controls in place to ensure their standards are maintain no matter where the manufacture point is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, of the mindset that if I have zero gear, I'd go right for the X7 as that takes care of multiple things:

DAC

Amp

Virtual surround

Virtual surround PC device

That is how everyone should at least break the X7 as. If viewing it as just those things, its essentially like $400+ worth of those things if you were to buy single devices like a Modi, Magni, Mixamp, Xonar U3 or whatever Creative equivalent there was (for pc purposes). Of course, its quite a bit more than that, as it can also drive some passive speakers, but in terms of headphone specific duties, you have 4 devices worth of stuff in one package that happens to do it for both PC and external consoles.

The only reason I wouldn't get it myself is because I already have these things. If I somehow sold everything, then yes, I'd buy one myself. I kinda really like my mostly untethered freedom with the Mixamp 5.8 though, so it'd be hard for me to give it up again.


----------



## phobia337

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, of the mindset that if I have zero gear, I'd go right for the X7 as that takesbcare of 3 things:
> 
> DAC
> 
> ...


 
 Once the X7 comes down in price, I'm going to take the plunge on it. Just at $400 is a pretty good jumping off point to "see" if you like it.


----------



## Toxos

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, of the mindset that if I have zero gear, I'd go right for the X7 as that takes care of multiple things:
> 
> DAC
> 
> ...


 
 Well when you put it THAT way... now I am seriously considering getting the X7 since I have nothing of those things. I will need a pc solution or a ps4 solution. Since my ps4 will be with my tv and maybe other consoles in the future, maybe the x7 may not be a bad choice as a future investment anyway. Hmm...


----------



## FDDreamer

Thanks ever so much for all your help, guys.  It seems like I'm in a win-win situation really, and as such I'm going to wait on the sales to see if any of the short-listed headphones are reduced before pulling the trigger. 
  
 I feel like the X2s might be the best one for me (in terms of a solution that completely nails my requirements) and if they were slightly cheaper would be a no-brainer.  However, right now I could buy a K612 for £130 less than an X2 which seems like an absolute steal.  I could use the difference, plus whatever I could get for selling my one-week-old Zx, and be probably halfway to buying an X7!
  
 The HP200 looks great too.  I need to dig up some more reviews on it, but if it is reduced in the sales (to land somewhere between the K612 and the X2) it could be a serious contender.  Shame it's not on Mad Lust Envy's list as I'd love to read his impressions!
  
 Finally, thank you for the tip re. Austria / China.  If the quality is there then I see no reason to be worried by where it is actually assembled!  I guess I'm getting old and cynical and couldn't help but apply the 'if it's too good to be true...' adage to the K612 when it costs so little!


----------



## Stillhart

fddreamer said:


> Finally, thank you for the tip re. Austria / China.  If the quality is there then I see no reason to be worried by where it is actually assembled!  I guess I'm getting old and cynical and couldn't help but apply the 'if it's too good to be true...' adage to the K612 when it costs so little!


 
  
 I had a Honda CBR600F4 motorcycle in 2002 that was the best 600 supersport you could buy.  It was winning every shootout in every magazine and was THE bike to get.  Not even ten years later, they were selling the EXACT same bike, but it was their "entry level" 600 sportbike.  The newer bikes got so much better that the older tech was that outclassed by comparison.  But that older bike didn't change.  Everything that made it so amazing in 2002 was still there.
  
 That's how I think of the K612.  It's a entry-level version of the K7-- series that's really quite good on its own, and is only entry-level in direct comparison with its newer better brothers.
  
 (Caveat:  I haven't heard the K612.  Take the comments above for what they're worth.)


----------



## FDDreamer

stillhart said:


> I had a Honda CBR600F4 motorcycle in 2002 that was the best 600 supersport you could buy.  It was winning every shootout in every magazine and was THE bike to get.  Not even ten years later, they were selling the EXACT same bike, but it was their "entry level" 600 sportbike.  The newer bikes got so much better that the older tech was that outclassed by comparison.  But that older bike didn't change.  Everything that made it so amazing in 2002 was still there.
> 
> That's how I think of the K612.  It's a entry-level version of the K7-- series that's really quite good on its own, and is only entry-level in direct comparison with its newer better brothers.
> 
> (Caveat:  I haven't heard the K612.  Take the comments above for what they're worth.)


 

 I like your analogy! 
  
 As a complete newcomer to all this I am more than happy to look at an entry-level headphone.  In fact, from the reviews I've read it may be that I'd actually prefer the K612 to the K7 series due to the slightly warmer sound and fuller bass.  I've read the K612 can be a little picky as to the system that drives it, but I imagine the Sound Blaster Zx would be fine with it?  I've also been digging around for any known issues with the K612 (specifically the cable as it's not removeable) but have turned up virtually nothing which is really encouraging!
  
 Problems on the X2 also seem few and far between, although I did notice that their sound can deteriorate when using a high output impedence amp.  Not sure if that would apply to me or not, but they would be driven by the SB Zx.  Crikey there's so much to learn.


----------



## Stillhart

fddreamer said:


> I like your analogy!
> 
> As a complete newcomer to all this I am more than happy to look at an entry-level headphone.  In fact, from the reviews I've read it may be that I'd actually prefer the K612 to the K7 series due to the slightly warmer sound and fuller bass.  I've read the K612 can be a little picky as to the system that drives it, but I imagine the Sound Blaster Zx would be fine with it?  I've also been digging around for any known issues with the K612 (specifically the cable as it's not removeable) but have turned up virtually nothing which is really encouraging!
> 
> Problems on the X2 also seem few and far between, although I did notice that their sound can deteriorate when using a high output impedence amp.  Not sure if that would apply to me or not, but they would be driven by the SB Zx.  Crikey there's so much to learn.


 
  
 IMO, don't worry about impedance matching.  You most likely won't be able to hear the difference until you train your ears a bit more.  Even then, it will be hard to pick out unless you're A/B'ing them back to back.  I mean, obviously don't run the 32 ohm X2 out of a Bottlehead Crack that's specifically designed for high-impedance headphones, but if you're just running it from a normal amp/soundcard you'll be fine.
  
 The K612 should sound just fine out of the Z/Zx.


----------



## Change is Good

My K7XX has finally arrived. Man, I almost forgot how wonderful the K7** series sounds. I am reminded at how the latter models do pretty much everything very well, similar to the X2, but... _better_!
  
 If one were to choose between the X2 and K7XX/K702 AE/K712 for an all-rounder, the AKGs win... hands down.
  
 The recent Massdrop sale on the K7XX has to be the steal of the year, imho.


----------



## Sam21

I have the Mixamp 2013 and the 7.1 Tritton decoders....I also have both XB1 and PS4 consoles.
  
 which decoder should I use with which console ? I mean If you were me, which console would you use with which decoder ?


----------



## bavinck

Can anyone confirm that the x7 works with a Mic and the ps4? Maybe I missed this somewhere....


----------



## Terakahn

Any idea on what a comparison for gaming would look like between the K712 and 7XX? That's a big price difference, don't want to spend extra for almost the same product. Reviews are confusing, since they tend to not focus on the gaming side at all.


----------



## AxelCloris

terakahn said:


> Any idea on what a comparison for gaming would look like between the K712 and 7XX? That's a big price difference, don't want to spend extra for almost the same product. Reviews are confusing, since they tend to not focus on the gaming side at all.


 
  
 If you're getting them for gaming only get the cheaper one. Simple as that.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, I still have the K712 (loaned to Mad for his review) and a K612, and I used to have a Q701 at the same time as the others, and a LOT of what is great about the high-end AKG's translates to the K612. Consider they all have great soundstage width and depth, "awake" mids and treble, separation, detail, control, self-adjusting headband, true circumaural comfort. Add to that base a little air, soundstage width, and imaging that will occasionally trick you into believing it's real, interchangeable cables, and you've got the Q701 (and FWIR newer K702's), basically the ideal pairing to virtual surround. Take the base and add a little more bass, interchangeable cables, flat headband, orange, little bit more treble control and overall control/separation (less width than Q) and you have the K712. Lastly, the K612 is the base AKG character + little more bass and subbass extension, flat headband, maybe you need 10% higher volume but you also get what feels like 10% more dampening, a little less "light" on the treble or "sparkle." I love them all. You lose a few "pro" features on the K612 but it's an amazing value, and if the choice is between a K612 with a good amp or an X1 or X2 without an amp, I'd pick a K612 with amp for my money, easily. All three AKG's are GREAT values when you compare to other brands, the sound of another brand may suit one' preference more but the AKG's are undeniably competent. I happen to find them really fun!

"No bass" is literally never true unless you're talking about a Tweeter. Most of the bass range is already responding above neutral in all these headphones, but it still won't be enough for some users.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tweeters, and the AD700... 


Still very much in love with the x2. Just a wonderfully neutral headphone with some grunt in the bass that still keeps it neutrally toned. Think, better balanced DT880. Yeah.

So i don't agree with the Annie/7XX doing EVERYTHING better, as the AKGs have a warmer tilt to them, with that upper mid peak that a lot of people don't particularly care for. It will still put off some people. I don't see the X2 putting off anyone, unless they just don't want a neutrally toned headphone.

Keep in mind, I still think the AKGs are overall a better headphone in terms of technicalities. However, just as some people prefer the 612 over the 70X and 712, the X2 can be favorable over those AKgs for some people. Me, it's neck to neck on preference. I love both the Annie and X2. Would be hard to pick out a clear winner. I'd probably edge it out to the Annie due to my preference of intimacy/warmth, where the X2 is decidedly more neutral, and not as warm. Not warm, not bright, neutral. Even more neutral sounding than the 612 despite the better sense of bass (which I didn't think was possible, as the 612 has very balanced bass). The upper mid bump on the AKGs is just always a factor here.

We live in an amazing age of headphones, with so many fantastic options for your money. To say that two very new headphones already have my top recommendations says a lot. The X2 and 7XX (aka Annie part deux) are two headphones that I can't see many people being upset about unless you have a clear preference for something flavored a bit differently.

Of course, I have to address the price/availability. For $200, the tides are heavily swayed towards the 7XX over the X2, which is $100 more, and at the most, on a comparable level in most regards, and at a disadvantage in any other. So you're getting at LEAST a comparable if not superior headphone with the 7XX over the X2. That being said, the 7XX is going to be severely limited for now, and the alternative is the Annie/712s which are both at least as expensive as the X2, if not more so. Also, the X2 is undoubtedly going to be discounted quite a bit next year, as Philips headphones always do, further putting the X2 in the 7XX price range, making the choice between them hard again if you find both appealing like I do.

The main benefits once you put them on the same level, is that the X2 is quite a bit easier to drive, as well as having instant V-moda boompro compatibility (which were my main reasons why I didn't hold out for the 7XX).

One final thing to say: I feel the X2 is definitely superior to the 612 overall. Both are neutral headphones, while the 612 has some things about it's sound that will put off some people, it being considerably harder to power, losing comfort points, and lack of Boompro compatibilty. though of course, price is a factor, and the 612 is nearly half the price, so if price is a factor... 612 clearly wins.

So my personal opinion on tier list between these headphones, price be damned:

1. Annie = 7XX
2. K712 = X2 (just very, very slightly behind the #1 spot)
3. 612 = X1 = MA900


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Can anyone confirm that the x7 works with a Mic and the ps4? Maybe I missed this somewhere....


 
 Plug it via USB or Bluetooth (x7 can work as a bluetooth headset)


----------



## 1llest

Is there now a mixamp alternative in the same price range? The mixamp 2013 and Mixamp gen 2 are having chat issues on the xbox one, very muffled and static-y.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone experiencing driver rattle on their new K7XX's? Just curious as many people are claiming this on the mass drop forum.

Also do u think Akg will do another drop? There seems to be enough interest for it on mass drop.


----------



## draven5494

change is good said:


> My K7XX has finally arrived. Man, I almost forgot how wonderful the K7** series sounds. I am reminded at how the latter models do pretty much everything very well, similar to the X2, but... _better_!
> 
> If one were to choose between the X2 and K7XX/K702 AE/K712 for an all-rounder, the AKGs win... hands down.
> 
> The recent Massdrop sale on the K7XX has to be the steal of the year, imho.




Sounds like we have similar tastes. I very much prefer the K7XX to the X2 as well. The K7XX just sounds so natural and warm while providing an excellent soundstage, imaging and separation.

I felt the X2 was a bit claustrophobic and a little boomy. 

With the X2 I just didn't get the sense of space that I get with the K7XX.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone experiencing driver rattle on their new K7XX's? Just curious as many people are claiming this on the mass drop forum.
> 
> Also do u think Akg will do another drop? There seems to be enough interest for it on mass drop.




What number did you get?

I have not tried mine yet but Im scared now


----------



## Toxos

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone experiencing driver rattle on their new K7XX's? Just curious as many people are claiming this on the mass drop forum.
> 
> Also do u think Akg will do another drop? There seems to be enough interest for it on mass drop.


 
  
  


rudyae86 said:


> What number did you get?
> 
> I have not tried mine yet but Im scared now


 
  
 As of right now (keep in mind I just got mine too and have barely been burned in), there is no rattle on mine. I think there might be a bias because out of 2000, say 10 have rattle, then all of those 10 people will be (rightfully) complaining about the rattle, but you won't hear the other 1990 people because they are happily enjoying their rattle-free headphones. My number is around 1300. 
  
 My 2 cents.


----------



## Evshrug

My 3 AKGs never rattled. For long-term care, make sure you pick off and stray hairs from the driver cover... I've read that sometimes causes rattle.


----------



## Toxos

evshrug said:


> My 3 AKGs never rattled. For long-term care, make sure you pick off and stray hairs from the driver cover... I've read that sometimes causes rattle.


 
 I usually do since hairs on the cover...... drive me crazy hehehe


----------



## PoobBubes

toxos said:


> As of right now (keep in mind I just got mine too and have barely been burned in), there is no rattle on mine. I think there might be a bias because out of 2000, say 10 have rattle, then all of those 10 people will be (rightfully) complaining about the rattle, but you won't hear the other 1990 people because they are happily enjoying their rattle-free headphones. My number is around 1300.
> 
> My 2 cents.


 

 I actually received two pairs of these and both have rattle in the right driver. One was serial number in the 500s and the other in the 800s. Although one was worse than the other.


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> What number did you get?
> 
> 
> I have not tried mine yet but Im scared now




I did not get a pair, but considering ordering if they do it again.


----------



## Yethal

It's 6 pm here in Poland so to all of You Head-Fiers Merry Christmas!


----------



## conquerator2

Merry Christmas from Czech Republic as well


----------



## 1llest

Has anyone tried these as a mixamp alternative?
  
  

  
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/upgrade-kits-accessories/ear-force-seven-mobile-to-console-upgrade-kit/404


----------



## Yethal

1llest said:


> Has anyone tried these as a mixamp alternative?
> 
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/upgrade-kits-accessories/ear-force-seven-mobile-to-console-upgrade-kit/404


 
 It looks like this will only work with other turtle beach headsets as it has mini din output connector.


----------



## 1llest

The Control unit plugs into that. Ive watched youtube videos of people unboxing and setting it up. 

http://youtu.be/lh8HgPpOnbg

Just wanted to see if anyone else tried it.


----------



## FDDreamer

evshrug said:


> I mean, I still have the K712 (loaned to Mad for his review) and a K612, and I used to have a Q701 at the same time as the others, and a LOT of what is great about the high-end AKG's translates to the K612. Consider they all have great soundstage width and depth, "awake" mids and treble, separation, detail, control, self-adjusting headband, true circumaural comfort. Add to that base a little air, soundstage width, and imaging that will occasionally trick you into believing it's real, interchangeable cables, and you've got the Q701 (and FWIR newer K702's), basically the ideal pairing to virtual surround. Take the base and add a little more bass, interchangeable cables, flat headband, orange, little bit more treble control and overall control/separation (less width than Q) and you have the K712. Lastly, the K612 is the base AKG character + little more bass and subbass extension, flat headband, maybe you need 10% higher volume but you also get what feels like 10% more dampening, a little less "light" on the treble or "sparkle." I love them all. You lose a few "pro" features on the K612 but it's an amazing value, and if the choice is between a K612 with a good amp or an X1 or X2 without an amp, I'd pick a K612 with amp for my money, easily. All three AKG's are GREAT values when you compare to other brands, the sound of another brand may suit one' preference more but the AKG's are undeniably competent. I happen to find them really fun!
> 
> "No bass" is literally never true unless you're talking about a Tweeter. Most of the bass range is already responding above neutral in all these headphones, but it still won't be enough for some users.


 
 Thanks for the breakdown - it was really interesting reading.  From your description it seems the K712 would probably be the most pleasing to me, but it's currently ~£290.  That puts it at £60 more than an X2, and very nearly triple the price of the K612!  I actually like the idea of a little more bass, plus the headband seems more forgiving too.  I'd be running it via the SB Z, so I guess the volume would be fine.  Can I ask what dampening relates to?  Sorry, not something I've come across yet!
  


mad lust envy said:


> Tweeters, and the AD700...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm really interested in the upper-mid peak you mentioned, and I've heard it referred to on a number of threads.  If I was to put some music on and play with the equaliser bundled with the Sound Blaster Control Centre, could I replicate this peak by moving particular sliders?
  
 Finally, can I put you on the spot and ask where the Q701 / K702 would figure in your list above?  And maybe the DT990 Premium?  They are all roughly the same price here, which puts them squarely between the K612 (which is around £60-£80 cheaper) and the X2 (which is £60-£80 more expensive).  I've written off the others as the K712 is another £60 more than the X2, and the Annie is about the same increase again.
  
 Roll on the sales, and merry Christmas to everyone!


----------



## wilflare

you guys are making me regret not getting the K7XX


----------



## conquerator2

Is Surround at 69% still the best universally agreed as the best option for the SBX? Testing the X7 atm so just asking


----------



## PixelSkills

How much better is the Q701 compared to the Sennheiser G4me One? Ive heard great things about the Q701 but if it isnt that much better I dont really want to change because of the easy Volume control and built in mic on the G4me One. Has anyone used both the Q701 and G4me One or even the PC360 as its almost the same?


----------



## lenroot77

pixelskills said:


> How much better is the Q701 compared to the Sennheiser G4me One? Ive heard great things about the Q701 but if it isnt that much better I dont really want to change because of the easy Volume control and built in mic on the G4me One. Has anyone used both the Q701 and G4me One or even the PC360 as its almost the same?




I'd say your best bet is to read the reviews for both on the first page of this thread.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Is Surround at 69% still the best universally agreed as the best option for the SBX? Testing the X7 atm so just asking


 
  
 I think based on Chicolom's video, we decided that 66% made it easier to tell wehre sounds were coming from for sound whoring.  100% made it less analytical like that but more immersive along the lines of DH.  You can search Youtube for Chicolom and the video will come up...


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Is Surround at 69% still the best universally agreed as the best option for the SBX? Testing the X7 atm so just asking




Oh it's entirely personal. Some people swear by 67% and won't go a percent higher because of the perceived difference. I saw one guy who games at 33%, and another who likes a little surround to his music. Personally, I just played around with it on the Recon3D while I had a movie playing in the background, I liked rear imaging best at 100%, and now with the X7 I first used it at the default 67% for a few days before playing with the mobile app and setting it for 88% these days.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Oh it's entirely personal. Some people swear by 67% and won't go a percent higher because of the perceived difference. I saw one guy who games at 33%, and another who likes a little surround to his music. Personally, I just played around with it on the Recon3D while I had a movie playing in the background, I liked rear imaging best at 100%, and now with the X7 I first used it at the default 67% for a few days before playing with the mobile app and setting it for 88% these days.


 
 I am experimenting myself. I find the 100% setting to sound weird and distant though. 60 - 70% seems much more natural and realistic. Basically [as been said] lower values tend to sound more natural, while something near a 100 just sounds very processed to me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 I'll experiment further


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like 100% due to it making rear audio cues quite a bit easier to discern. 100% still doesn't sound as 'processed' as Dolby Headphone, which I'm used to, so it doesn't bother me in the least.


----------



## butnero

Hey guys which one you guys think it's best for positioning audio like pinpoiting footstep positions etc the AKG 612 PRO or AKG 7xx or neither?
  
 Also I will be using whichever one I buy with the MixAmp should I get an amp to power them?


----------



## Yethal

butnero said:


> Hey guys which one you guys think it's best for positioning audio like pinpoiting footstep positions etc the AKG 612 PRO or AKG 7xx or neither?
> 
> Also I will be using whichever one I buy with the MixAmp should I get an amp to power them?


 
 Go for whichever one You can afford. Try without an amp first if it doesn't suit You or isn't loud enough buy an amp.


----------



## butnero

I can afford both, but the thing is I either buy with amp or dont buy at all @Yethal  which one is best for positioning the k7xx or 612 pros


----------



## wilcoxon

Does anyone know how the Sennheiser G4ME One compares to the PC360?  I would guess they are very similar in performance (is that correct?).  Is there a difference in build quality?  Comfort?


----------



## rudyae86

wilcoxon said:


> Does anyone know how the Sennheiser G4ME One compares to the PC360?  I would guess they are very similar in performance (is that correct?).  Is there a difference in build quality?  Comfort?


 
 They would pretty much be the same, sound wise. Comfort should be the same as well and build quality the same but just different color White with red ring or black with red ring.


----------



## wilcoxon

rudyae86 said:


> They would pretty much be the same, sound wise. Comfort should be the same as well and build quality the same but just different color White with red ring or black with red ring.


 
 I'd expect some difference in something since, as near as I can tell, the G4ME One (available in white & black) and PC360 (available in black) are both current models.  If they are pretty much identical, I'd be surprised if a company would keep multiple skus (but companies have certainly done things that surprised me before).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're the same headphone. Sennheiser was even so lazy, they didn't change anything in their descriptions other than the images.

At it seems you haven't been paying attention to AKG. They've released essentially the same headphones time and time again.


----------



## Evshrug

^humbaug?


----------



## wilcoxon

mad lust envy said:


> They're the same headphone. Sennheiser was even so lazy, they didn't change anything in their descriptions other than the images.
> 
> At it seems you haven't been paying attention to AKG. They've released essentially the same headphones time and time again.


 
 Thanks.  Nope, I haven't been following AKG (or much of anyone else).  In general, I'm not a big headphone fan but sometimes I need to use headphones (with a mic).  I recently bought a set of Logitech G430 after reading lots of gaming site reviews but the mic sucks and the headband is uncomfortable (too narrow for the weight) so they are going back and I did some more research and decided I'd spend the money for something better.
  
 For the price-point, the Sennheisers seem to be a very good option.
  
 Given reviews and Sennheiser's experience with aviation headsets, I expect the G4ME/PC360 should be comfortable for long periods and have a good mic (and good sound quality).


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> ^humbaug?




A bit less than scum, a bit more than meh. We use it for anything cheaty and/or unpleasant here, and so do people in Germany, I believe (the origins)


----------



## butnero

Hey guys which one you guys think it's best for positioning audio like pinpoiting footstep positions etc the AKG 612 PRO or AKG 7xx or neither?
  
 Also I will be using whichever one I buy with the MixAmp should I get an amp to power them?


----------



## conquerator2

butnero said:


> 1]Hey guys which one you guys think it's best for positioning audio like pinpoiting footstep positions etc the AKG 612 PRO or AKG 7xx or neither?
> 
> 2]Also I will be using whichever one I buy with the MixAmp should I get an amp to power them?


 
 1] Both are great. K612 would probably win in positioning footsteps [competitive]. Both are very good though and the K7XX should be a bit more fun in return.
 2] For the K612 yes, for the K7XX it is recommended.
  
 Bottom line - both are great, The K612 is a great headphone for the price, while the K7XX should be a bargain for their relative price respectively.


----------



## FDDreamer

Just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone here for their advice; delighted to say I finally decided on my first pair of headphones!

Ordered the AKG K612 Pro, including shipping etc for just under £100. I still think the X2 sounds better, but as I'm completely new to this I'm not sure I'd hear the relative shortcomings of the K612 as much as you guys. Plus, the X2 would have cost £130 more which I just can't justify yet.

Absolutely can't wait for them to arrive!


----------



## pebuzerA

then, can someone please help me? I have an xbox one and wear a Turtle Beach EarForce DSS2 to use my headphones, I wanted to use the microphone on the xbox one, will be that buying a cable type thishttp://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-608266597-adaptador-p2-divisor-ou-splitter-para-fone-de-ouvido-35mm-_JM will work?
 PS: I'm sorry the Brazilian Portuguese Please help me, do not want to buy the stereo adapter to connect the control.


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> then, can someone please help me? I have an xbox one and wear a Turtle Beach EarForce DSS2 to use my headphones, I wanted to use the microphone on the xbox one, will be that buying a cable type thishttp://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-608266597-adaptador-p2-divisor-ou-splitter-para-fone-de-ouvido-35mm-_JM will work?
> PS: I'm sorry the Brazilian Portuguese Please help me, do not want to buy the stereo adapter to connect the control.



The only way to use a mic without purchasing the adapter is to mod the headset that came with the xbox one.


----------



## pebuzerA

but more how to do, I did and did not work


----------



## Stillhart

pebuzera said:


> but more how to do, I did and did not work



I've never done it, sorry. :-\


----------



## butnero

@conquerator2 Thanks! I want for competitive indeed the 612 pros would beat any other akg right? 
  
 Also could u recommend me an amp I was looking on to these https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/product-category/headphone-amplifiers/ but I really have no knowledge on Amp's If u could give me an extra help would be marvelous <3333 merry xmas! every1
  
 edit: I will be using on MixAmp for consoles need somethin tha will be port compatible!


----------



## conquerator2

butnero said:


> @conquerator2 Thanks! I want for competitive indeed the 612 pros would beat any other akg right?
> 
> Also could u recommend me an amp I was looking on to these https://www.mayflowerelectronics.com/product-category/headphone-amplifiers/ but I really have no knowledge on Amp's If u could give me an extra help would be marvelous <3333 merry xmas! every1
> 
> edit: I will be using on MixAmp for consoles need somethin tha will be port compatible!


 
 Schiit Magni is an often recommended favorite.
 The K812 would probably beat the K612 for competitive, or even possibly the Q/K701/2 because of less bass. You only asked about the K7XX 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The K612 is still relatively balanced, while the Q701, K701 & K702 would probably have a slight bass deficiency in comparison. Therefore, I would recommend the K612.


----------



## butnero

@conquerator2 Yes, I know! Imma do some research on the k812. I want the best for competitive heard the best were 612 pro/k7xx thats why asked only about them but hey I will be glad if u have any other suggestion!
  
 And also check price for the Schiit Magni seems nice does it require a port adapter? the in/out looks bigg
  
 edit: nevermind k812 1,000$ lol


----------



## rudyae86

Honestly, you should do a bit more research with what headphone you really want.

The reason I say this is because you may not like what sounds good to us. 

Personally I prefer a more balanced headphone. I dont like bright or treble sensitive headphones yet I dont like overpowering or muddy bass.

And dont expect headphones to make miracles and make you a better player overnight lol. I have seemed to read those comments everywhere. Although sound has alot to do with competitive gaming and immersion, for me, lacking immersion will get me bored, tired and more boringness lol.

Like I have said before, I can play a game without sound as still have a good match in BF4, sometimes I have my headphones laying on my desk while I play BF4 for no reason lol.

Pinpointing enemies does help overall, no doubt about that but just like I said, research more about the other headphones.

The numbering system used in MLEs guide is used more as a referenced and showing a headphones merits as opposed to comparing the headphones.

Or if you dont care about what I say and are on a budget, get the audio technica ad700 and thats it  

Cheap and great for competitive gaming....

Although some say the ad700x sounds similar but I dont know since I dont like that type of sound.


----------



## Change is Good

Just wanted to point out that my AKG adaptor is set to arrive, tomorrow. I will post some pics and impressions once I test it out.


----------



## butnero

@rudyae86
  
 I've done many I don't like bass for gaming I find it painfull to hear and force myself to slow volume down and I prefer some headphones with less bass, I have a sensitive hearing.
  
 And I know that sound doesnt make magic I used to play competitive. What I want from the headphone is to be able to locate where the sound is coming from so I can make my reflexes instant, sometimes I struggle knowing the exact location and that's what I'm looking for. I used to have a A40's headset my cat chewed the wire it was fine and I must add extremely comfortable but no that precise and that precision I need to make my reactions more precise.
  
 And I often play fps with no sound too and get high scores but when I'm playing competitive I really need that audio precision


----------



## rudyae86

butnero said:


> @rudyae86
> 
> I've done many I don't like bass for gaming I find it painfull to hear and force myself to slow volume down and I prefer some headphones with less bass, I have a sensitive hearing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh okay. I guess you are the type that really wants that kind of sound. Just remember, dont go all out spending 1k right of the bat lol
  
 usually the ones already mentioned go for between 100 to 200 bucks. Id probably say you go for the k612, since the q701 seems like comfort wise, those bumps will kill ya lol. What about the HD598/G4ME ONE from Sennheiser? They are pretty good for competitive FPS and dont require amping or maybe a little just to bring out a little more sound but not really.


----------



## Yethal

I'll have You all know that I have acquired a Soundblaster Recon 3d USB for a whopping price of 30 dollars (+shipping). Since I have only heard SBX Surround on premixed videos before I am curious how it will compare to Dolby Headphone. Because the Soundblaster is going to be my third surround processor (after 2010 and 2013 mixamps) I'll probably sell one of them afterwards.
  
 Also, a question for people who do have the Recon 3d, is it possible to use the wireless card with any headset other than the dedicated one?


----------



## butnero

@rudyae86 hmm I don't really like how the senheiser has those really big ear pads, and I like the headbands from the AKG 612 pro reminds of my SS Siberia and yes those where my first buy in the beggining to be honest I was going to buy the PC363D and MixAmp to Console until I did more research and came between these AKG's. The pick between Senheiser/AKG's is something kinda of personal but no really conclusvie or critical picking It's just they're more familiar and the Senheiser seems like they're going to copy and paste my ears to fit in lol, but if they did sound better I'd totally go for 'em but seems like they're pretty even!
  
 And yeah I'm definetely not going to throught 1k away my extremely max budget would be 450 I guess, but Im to spent maximum at 350 another 100$ would be If I have to buy another MixAmp cause mine It's 2010 edition and not sure if It will work on new console. but yeah that's pretty much it!
  
 And thank you for your attention, really, and help!
  
 Which do you use? also are akgs/senheiser even right


----------



## pack21

I have a pair of K702 and a MA900.

 The K702 are very good technically indeed , but many forget that we have not taken full advantage of an high end headphones when we have to separate the sound to party on mixamp, and so lose all the highest quality it has.

 The MA900 has a more airy sound, more soundstage, better mids, which gives more immersion in BF4 than K702 and not lose so much capacity in party.

 If AKG K702 are very good MA900 are the cream for playing BF4 on party.


----------



## Kamakahah

I own the K7XX, MA900 and HD598. It's really a matter of preference. The HD598 tends to conform to my head shape the best. All are comfortable, but I find the 598 and K7XX more comfortable for my head. 

The MA900 is more my preferred sound compared to the others. I pretty much never use the 598 for anything but gaming. Haven't had the K7XX for long enough yet to really decide if I prefer it over the MA900 just yet. 

Any of them are fantastic for competitive fps gaming. How realistic and immersing will depend on an individuals preference. Personally, I much prefer a closed Planar when I want game or movie immersion. 

You just need to decide what you value the most, what is an acceptable price point, and then try them to see what works best for you. I hated the MA900's fit until I spent a few weeks finding the sweet spot on my stupid-shaped dome. Even the K7XX was awkward on my jaw until I found a position that worked well for comfort and sound. 

If I had to recommend one, it would be the 598 for comfort and fps gaming. It can be had very cheap. It's amazingly comfortable. Does great for competitive gaming with its accurate imaging and is easy to drive. Probably the best value. You can use the money saved to put a Modmic on it. 

For both music and competitive gaming It's a toss up for me between the Sony and akg. It just depends on the music you're listening to. 

For immersion gaming and music, and still very good for competitive, I'd recommend a closed Planar. They are my favorite. The sub bass ability trumps open cans, as it should. You can get something from Mr.Speakers, ZMF X Vibro or new Blackwood. Maybe do your own mod. A used Mad dog would probably still fall near $200. Does require more power though. 

Anyway, there is no "best", just what's best for you.


----------



## pathfindercod

I am 100% sure positional sound doesn't get any better than the AKG 712pro's I just got, they are simply amazing!


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## rudyae86

how much?


----------



## wilflare

I don't know what came over me during Black Friday but I bought the PlayStation Gold Headset (it is still sealed and brand new).
 Having used the PlayStation PULSE Wireless Elite previously, I really enjoy the ease of use and the fact that it's wireless (no wire clutter).
  
 I know my Philips Fidelio X1 will definitely sound better and with the Mixamp, I'll get decent surround sound.
  
 so here's the thing
 I don't know if I should keep the PlayStation Gold Headset for the ease of use whenever I need a wireless pair to play on my PS4
 or should I sell my Mixamp Pro 2014 and try to get a Mixamp 5.8 off eBay?


----------



## conquerator2

^ That's up to you to decide


----------



## face2k

Hey guys,
 I've been wanting to upgrade my headphones for a while now
 My current set up is PS4>Recon3D>Cute Beyond AMP>AD900X
 I also listen to music on PC
 Since I got the AD900X for cheap (about 110$) I can sell them for the same price I bought them and invest into better headphones
 The reason is that I like the AD900X for its soundstage but I don't like that it is a bit bass light (on some songs it's ok but for gaming a bit bass light)
 So now I have a budget of under 200$ and there are a lot of few choices and here are some of the ones I can find
 HE-400, K612, MA900, DT990, HD598
  
 So which one would you guys buy?
 If you have any other suggestions please tell me


----------



## nayajoeun

Heya all,

To anyone who has used both the DSS and the Schiit Modi, does the DAC used in the Modi offer a noticeable improvement in sound quality over the DAC used in the DSS?

I ask this as for some PS4 games like Far Cry 4, changing the sound output to LPCM and hitting Dolby Bypass on the DSS gives me noticably clearer and detailed sound compared to Dolby Digital/Headphone. The positioning for base stereo isn't too bad either (opinion).

If the Modi has a noticably better DAC I was planning on purchasing the M2 uber which goes for about 300 bux here in Aus. I find nowadays I prefer the clearer sound over the positioning advantage.


Thank you.


----------



## martin vegas

wilflare said:


> I don't know what came over me during Black Friday but I bought the PlayStation Gold Headset (it is still sealed and brand new).
> Having used the PlayStation PULSE Wireless Elite previously, I really enjoy the ease of use and the fact that it's wireless (no wire clutter).
> 
> I know my Philips Fidelio X1 will definitely sound better and with the Mixamp, I'll get decent surround sound.
> ...


 

 I watch this man on Twitch..he uses the gold headset and is 3rd in the usa on bf4..it can't be that bad!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.twitch.tv/ekolimits/b/603886739


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> I watch this man on Twitch..he uses the gold headset and is 3rd in the usa on bf4..it can't be that bad!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 Well, a few pages back somebody posted that they sound better when connected with a wire. Also, I'm pretty sure that the guy has some serious skill to back up his position. If You give a bad player a pair of Sennheisers HD800 connected to a Creative X7 and an external amp, he won't magically become a good player it just doesn't work that way. Also, battlefield 4 has a terrible audio engine.


----------



## wilflare

no headphones with pinpoint sound accuracy is going to improve my sorry lack of skills  haha


----------



## Yethal

Exactly, just like scuf controllers, pinpoint accuracy can't magically transform a mediocre player into an mlg beast.


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> I don't know what came over me during Black Friday but I bought the PlayStation Gold Headset (it is still sealed and brand new).
> Having used the PlayStation PULSE Wireless Elite previously, I really enjoy the ease of use and the fact that it's wireless (no wire clutter).
> 
> I know my Philips Fidelio X1 will definitely sound better and with the Mixamp, I'll get decent surround sound.
> ...


 
  
 I keep my Gold headset around for lazy days, but only because I paid $16 for mine.  They're perfectly capable as far as surround and SQ.  But they get literally _painful _to wear after about two hours.  Not uncomfortable.  Not "move it like an inch forward and it's fine" like the Q701.  Like, I need to take this off *now *because it feels like someone is jamming sharp plastic into my ear cartilage... which is what's happening.
  
 Given that, I can't recommend them to anyone unless you never plan on using them for more than two hours or unless you absolutely can't afford anything better.  Since you have the X1, I can't possibly see why you'd ever choose to wear the Gold. 
  


nayajoeun said:


> Heya all,
> 
> To anyone who has used both the DSS and the Schiit Modi, does the DAC used in the Modi offer a noticeable improvement in sound quality over the DAC used in the DSS?
> 
> ...


 
  
 That is WAY too expensive for the Modi.  That's $243 USD!  The reason the Modi is so recommended is because it's good _for it's price_.  If you're paying $100 USD too much for it, there are plenty of other options that will sound better.
  
 That said, in general, an audiophile DAC in that price range should sound noticeably better than any of the basic surround processors.  That is assuming the game has quality source files.  @Evshrug has been known to game in stereo with a Bifrost Uber because it just sounds better.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> how much?




Set price will be up to Zombie_X.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted/105#post_11165884


----------



## wilflare

stillhart said:


> I keep my Gold headset around for lazy days, but only because I paid $16 for mine.  They're perfectly capable as far as surround and SQ.  But they get literally _painful _to wear after about two hours.  Not uncomfortable.  Not "move it like an inch forward and it's fine" like the Q701.  Like, I need to take this off *now *because it feels like someone is jamming sharp plastic into my ear cartilage... which is what's happening.
> 
> Given that, I can't recommend them to anyone unless you never plan on using them for more than two hours or unless you absolutely can't afford anything better.  Since you have the X1, I can't possibly see why you'd ever choose to wear the Gold.
> 
> ...


 
  
 guess I should really look around for the Mixamp 5.8 - I can't really play my PS4 in the living room with wires running around
  
 the Fidelio X1 is actually kinda tight at the top for me due to the second band.
 the older Pulse Wireless Elite gets a little warm (hot) for me after a while... so I guess the Gold is gonna get worse?


----------



## PixelSkills

Would I get better sound from a schiit modi magni combo or from a av receiver such as a yamaha with silent cinema? Anyone know? This would be used with a ps4


----------



## High Fidelity

Is this the type of cable I need to connect my Mixamp 2014 to the Schiit Magni 2? 
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> guess I should really look around for the Mixamp 5.8 - I can't really play my PS4 in the living room with wires running around
> 
> the Fidelio X1 is actually kinda tight at the top for me due to the second band.
> the older Pulse Wireless Elite gets a little warm (hot) for me after a while... so I guess the Gold is gonna get worse?


 
  
 I know the feeling.  I tried using the Recon3D, which comes with a ribbon cable that is just one wire across the room, but it was still kind of a pain.  I spent a few months lurking on eBay and snagged a Mixamp 5.8 for around $40 shipped.  It's nice.
  
 If I recall, MLE and Tyll both commented on how the X1 was a bit tight if you have a big head.  The X2 supposedly fixes that.  Regarding heat on the Gold, I guarantee you won't notice the heat once the sharp plastic starts diggin into your ears.  :-D
  


pixelskills said:


> Would I get better sound from a schiit modi magni combo or from a av receiver such as a yamaha with silent cinema? Anyone know? This would be used with a ps4


 
  
 Well the Yamaha will have Silent Cinema for virtual surround.  I hear it's not great, but I suspect it's a step up from just stereo.  As to how it'll sound compared to the Schiit stack, I can't say.  If I had to guess, I'd guess it'll sound at least as good if not better.


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> Is this the type of cable I need to connect my Mixamp 2014 to the Schiit Magni 2?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2


 
 Yes, but you'll need a Y cable as well, if the Mixamp doesn't come with one.
  
 www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-headsets-separate-headphone-microphone/dp/B004SP0WAQ


----------



## nayajoeun

@Stillhart, thanks mate 

It kinda sucks here down under as we don't have many options and usually have to fork out extra for the "Australia Tax".

Amazon doesn't ship down here either for a lot of things. USA only.

For example, the Bifrost Uber being sold here via the one and only authorised retailer:

http://www.addictedtoaudio.com.au/product/schiit-audio-bifrost-dac-with-usb-gen2-with-uber-upgrade

$705 AUD! $755 w/ PYST cables =____=


If any of you guys know an international retailer that ships worldwide, please let me know!


P.S. The AudioGD NFB15 is $325, I think that's the best option for me?

Though I don't know how it rates against the Modi, so I gotta do more research haha


Again, thank you to all.

Happy Holidays


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> Yes, but you'll need a Y cable as well, if the Mixamp doesn't come with one.
> 
> www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-headsets-separate-headphone-microphone/dp/B004SP0WAQ


 
 The Mixamp 2014 came with the pink and green Y-adapter. I have a back up as well. Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

nayajoeun said:


> @Stillhart, thanks mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well you can always try ordering off the classifieds here.  I know a lot of people aren't too keen on shipping internationally, but it should still save you money.
  
 I've had both the Modi and the NFB-15.  The Audio-GD is noticeably better with better separation and a cleaner, blacker background.  For an extra $25, I'd say the NFB-15 is a no-brainer.  I tend to recommend it over the Schiit stack even when you can get the Schiit for $200+shipping.
  
Oh and I'm 99% sure there's an Aussie selling an NFB-15 on the classifieds right now.  Oh, NM, it's a 10SE.


----------



## nayajoeun

Ahh thanks Stillhart!

I'm leaning towards the GD15 

Although there's an Arcam rDac for similar price. No-one really seems to have it on Headfi though so I think I should stick to something safe!

Luckily I find only Dragon Age to be terrible with positioning in stereo!


Alien Isolation and PT sound amazing with surround. Holy ****.


Thanks matey!


----------



## wilflare

btw. I'm using "What U Hear" on my Soundblaster Zx to output to my Ext DAC (Audinst HUD-MX1) so I don't have to run long cables.. 

Am I actually still getting SBX? or is everything ruined with the "What U Hear" recording?


----------



## kcazbarach

face2k said:


> Hey guys,
> I've been wanting to upgrade my headphones for a while now
> My current set up is PS4>Recon3D>Cute Beyond AMP>AD900X
> I also listen to music on PC
> ...


 

 I can only comment on the hd 598 and he-400.
  
  
 The he-400 modded are alot better overall for music than the hd 598s, but that's assuming you do the grill mod and pad mods and then possibly EQ.
  
 Problem is that comfort isn't the best and it is heavier which means possibly buying a headband (simple mod though).
  
 The hd 598s are a great all arounder though, I use them for music, movies, and gaming and very comfortable though the clamp varies from person to person but personally I've found Sennheiser's upper line for open headphone usually very comfy.
  
  
  
 also I formerly owned the ad900x, It just didn't do it for me and music except for like 1/10 of my library that happened to be female vocals (Eva Cassidy, if you listen to her, sounded awesome on them).


----------



## pack21

When someone do a Mixamp Pro VS Creative X7?


----------



## PixelSkills

Is it possible to get ps4 chat audio to come out of your tv speakers or like a av receiver?


----------



## rudyae86

pack21 said:


> When someone do a Mixamp Pro VS Creative X7?


 
 Easy, X7 wins lol


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: pack21



Originally Posted by *pack21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> When someone do a Mixamp Pro VS Creative X7?





 
  
 What is your use case? What do you want it to do?
  
  


Spoiler: Quote: wilflare



  





wilflare said:


> btw. I'm using "What U Hear" on my Soundblaster Zx to output to my Ext DAC (Audinst HUD-MX1) so I don't have to run long cables..
> 
> Am I actually still getting SBX? or is everything ruined with the "What U Hear" recording?


 
  


  
 Play the 5.1 surround test file. If you hear all channels then it is working.
  
 Most people use optical out on a Sound Blaster card to a DAC with optical input and then under Advanced Features in the Creative Control Panel tick "Play stereo mix to digital output".


----------



## martin vegas

nayajoeun said:


> Ahh thanks Stillhart!
> 
> I'm leaning towards the GD15
> 
> ...


 

 I have the arcam r dac..it's a good solid dac sounds better than any of the dacmagics!


----------



## wilflare

ausername501 said:


> What is your use case? What do you want it to do?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 thanks! I was just curious would they end up compressing the surround file into two channels... (hope I make sense)
  
 my ext DAC does not come with optical input unfortunately :/
  
 should I get a Recon3D USB instead? it's around $120 :/


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: wilflare



Originally Posted by *wilflare* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> thanks! I was just curious would they end up compressing the surround file into two channels... (hope I make sense)
> 
> my ext DAC does not come with optical input unfortunately :/
> 
> should I get a Recon3D USB instead? it's around $120 :/





 
  
 Virtual Surround Sound is simulated binaural using Head Related Transfer Functions. They simulate a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup around your head. It won't sound like a how a speaker setup sounds in a room because VSS (except Dolby Headphone) places the speakers closer to your head and doesn't have any reverberation from the room. You don't want to hear a room because it's weird being in an outdoor environment in game and hearing reverb from the room.
  
 I would get a X-Fi Surround 5.1 (SBX version) and then use the line out to a Magni 2 or you can use the optical out to a DAC with optical input e.g. Schiit Modi Optical/Uber or Fiio E17. I haven't tested this setup before but I think it should work.


----------



## pack21

rudyae86 said:


> Easy, X7 wins lol





I know is a better device because it as more features in just one box, but what i want to know is about sound differences,DSS\sbx, immersion, details, soundstage, summing up if X7 surround sound is much better than mixamp to be worth the investment.


----------



## AUserName501

Spoiler: Quote: pack21



Originally Posted by *pack21* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> I know is a better device because it as more features in just one box, but what i want to know is about sound differences,DSS\sbx, immersion, details, soundstage, summing up if X7 surround sound is much better than mixamp to be worth the investment.





 
  
This channel is full of virtual surround sound comparisons that you can listen to. Decide for yourself what VSS you like best.


----------



## Stillhart

pack21 said:


> I know is a better device because it as more features in just one box, but what i want to know is about sound differences,DSS\sbx, immersion, details, soundstage, summing up if X7 surround sound is much better than mixamp to be worth the investment.


 
  
 X7 uses SBX just like the Z line of sound cards.  There plenty of comparison videos online comparing SBX to Dolby Headphone (used in the Mixamp line).  
  
 This video is one of my personal favorites for comparing.  It was made by our own @chicolom.


----------



## martin vegas

My AKG545 mic works when I have them plugged into the headphone socket of my ps4 controller!


----------



## pack21

stillhart said:


> X7 uses SBX just like the Z line of sound cards.  There plenty of comparison videos online comparing SBX to Dolby Headphone (used in the Mixamp line).
> 
> This video is one of my personal favorites for comparing.  It was made by our own @chicolom.


 
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Exactly, just like scuf controllers, pinpoint accuracy can't magically transform a mediocre player into an mlg beast.



Eh, I want one simply because I know that if I keep playing claw, I'll seriously mess up my hands. Have I plunked down $100 for one yet? Nope. But maybe after Christmas bonus?




pack21 said:


> When someone do a Mixamp Pro VS Creative X7?



I have a Mixamp 5.8
The Mixamp has noticable backdrop hiss, separation and depth of soundstage is noticably flattened but direction is still pretty decent, the Mixamp sounds noticeably weak and sometimes too quiet when you mix in chat audio, like even a little chat audio (to low to yet hear) reduces the maximum output volume. The Mixamp pro has slightly less hiss but the amp is also slightly less powerful.

The X7 is...


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Eh, I want one simply because I know that if I keep playing claw, I'll seriously mess up my hands. Have I plunked down $100 for one yet? Nope. But maybe after Christmas bonus?
> I have a Mixamp 5.8
> The Mixamp has noticable backdrop hiss, separation and depth of soundstage is noticably flattened but direction is still pretty decent, the Mixamp sounds noticeably weak and sometimes too quiet when you mix in chat audio, like even a little chat audio (to low to yet hear) reduces the maximum output volume. The Mixamp pro has slightly less hiss but the amp is also slightly less powerful.
> 
> The X7 is...




The X7 is... is...is? Hahaha can't wait for the full review Evs!


----------



## tigim101

I posted this on the K7xx thread, but it would apply to anyone who has a K702 Annie or K712.
  
 Ive had the K7xx for a few days, and now whenever I wear them I get a lot of pressure on my right ear and jaw, much more than my left, and it doesn't seem to go away, which I thought is something the memory foam is supposed to do, settle and provide even pressure. I did NOT notice this on the first day, where I wore them for hours and thought they were one of the most comfortable headphones Ive ever worn. Did anyone every experience this or have any possible tips for this? Maybe a way to make the memory foam settle faster or some minor adjustments I can try? It just seems weird that I feel so much more pressure on the right on a headphone with memory pads as good as these.


----------



## John_M

I have a slimline Marantz AVR (NR1601, silver) with Dolby Headphone for sale if anyone wants to buy one (UK). It has HDMI passthrough and can take a 7.1 LPCM input via HDMI and 'virtualise' it with Dolby Headphone. Soundwhoring w/ Q701 is noticeably better than anything from Turtle Beach or Astro - it's a much better quality piece of kit and can take an uncompressed 7.1 source rather than the 5.1 with lossy compression that everything else uses.


----------



## lenroot77

OK I just received the k7xx's ... These things are sick. It's my first akg experience and these things are amazing. I really enjoy my dt990s but these things take the cake!


----------



## Stillhart

Halo 5 beta started today and my wife and baby are out of town for two more days.  I think I'm going to bring my Project Ember and LCD-2 into the living room and see how they do for gaming.  
  
 Overkill?  Perhaps.
  
 Amusing?  Definitely!


----------



## shuto77

Can anyone speak to how the Soundmagic HP150 compares to the Fidelio X2? I love what I'm hearing about the X2, but the Soundmagics are $179, shipped, versus $321 shipped for the Fidelios from Amazon (pay tax at Amazon here in NJ). Can anyone say the X2s are $140 better? 
  
 Also, are the X2s significantly better all-arounders? 
  
 I'm guessing the answer is probably yes to both questions, but I'd figure I'd ask.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> Can anyone speak to how the Soundmagic HP150 compares to the Fidelio X2? I love what I'm hearing about the X2, but the Soundmagics are $179, shipped, versus $321 shipped for the Fidelios from Amazon (pay tax at Amazon here in NJ). Can anyone say the X2s are $140 better?
> 
> Also, are the X2s significantly better all-arounders?
> 
> I'm guessing the answer is probably yes to both questions, but I'd figure I'd ask.




Get both, if you can, and return the one you like, least. I learned a good while ago that your own ears are the best to answer questions as such.


----------



## shuto77

Hi ChangeisGood--
  
 Funds are tight, so I think I may try the Soundmagics to save the cash. I'll let everyone know what I t hink.
  
 Thanks,
 Shuto


----------



## Stillhart

shuto77 said:


> Can anyone speak to how the Soundmagic HP150 compares to the Fidelio X2? I love what I'm hearing about the X2, but the Soundmagics are $179, shipped, versus $321 shipped for the Fidelios from Amazon (pay tax at Amazon here in NJ). Can anyone say the X2s are $140 better?
> 
> Also, are the X2s significantly better all-arounders?
> 
> I'm guessing the answer is probably yes to both questions, but I'd figure I'd ask.


 
  
 I haven't heard the X2 but I used to own the X1 and I own the HP100, which is the same as the HP150 according to most people who have heard both.
  
 First thing to note is that the HP150 is closed vs the open X2.  That's going to make a big difference in the overall sound right there.  As a general rule of thumb, for gaming, if you don't need closed cans (due to playing in a noisy environment, or in a quiet environment with others nearby) you should go open.
  
 That said, the HP100 is surprisingly good for gaming.  The sound signatures of the HP100 and X1 are somewhat different.  The HP100 is very neutral with a slight sub-bass bump.  The X1 is very bass-heavy (comparatively speaking) for a more "fun" sound signature.  Supposedly the X2 has backed off the bass a bit, but I suspect they're still bassier in character than the more neutral HP100.
  
 They're different creatures so it's almost apples and oranges, but not that bad.  It's more... apples and pears.  lol
  
 I think they're both very good all-arounders with slightly different areas of specialty.  You'll be happy with either.  I haven't heard the X2, but I'll go out on a limb and say they're not going to be nearly twice as good as the HP150, as the price would imply.
  
 Have you looked into the AKG K612?  It's in the same price range as the HP150 but it's open and it's also supposed to be a great all-arounder.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> Hi ChangeisGood--
> 
> Funds are tight, so I think I may try the Soundmagics to save the cash. I'll let everyone know what I t hink.
> 
> ...




Great decision, and probably the same I would have made. I own the HP200, and like it better than the X2 

My whole point was not to persuade you to actually get both, but for you to understand that "which is better?" is not a very good question to ask in this hobby. Opinions, here, are entirely subjective, as many people hear differently and have different preferences in sound signature. It is always best to just ask how each headphone sounds, then see if it matches your own preference.

Enjoy those HP150s! I am eager to try them, myself, as I also used to own the HP100. SoundMAGIC is often overlooked when it comes to their full size headphones. That is sad because the price per performance is outstanding


----------



## pack21

evshrug said:


> Eh, I want one simply because I know that if I keep playing claw, I'll seriously mess up my hands. Have I plunked down $100 for one yet? Nope. But maybe after Christmas bonus?
> I have a Mixamp 5.8
> The Mixamp has noticable backdrop hiss, separation and depth of soundstage is noticably flattened but direction is still pretty decent, the Mixamp sounds noticeably weak and sometimes too quiet when you mix in chat audio, like even a little chat audio (to low to yet hear) reduces the maximum output volume. The Mixamp pro has slightly less hiss but the amp is also slightly less powerful.
> 
> The X7 is...




That's what I want to know, if playing BF4 with X7 gives better sound than mixamp.

 I waiting too for your X7 review. 

But i'm somewhat apprehensive when i read here that there are problems with mix chat on X7 that doesn't working, is it true?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/745916/sound-blaster-x7-impressions-thoughts/30


----------



## rudyae86

Sound Quality wise, without comparing SBX vs DH, X7 will sound better, at least on paper or specs wise since I have not had listened to it yet.

Although comparing sound quality feom my SB Z to my friends Astro mix amp pro 2013, to me SB Z sounds better and SB Z sound better compared to my Recon3D USB, IMO of course.


----------



## shuto77

[the HP200, and like it better than the X2 

Thanks, @ChangeisGoood and @stillheart! Yes, I meant the HP200, since it's open-back, my mistake. Do you guys like them as all-rounders as well? I listen to a wide range of music, including a lot of metal. Also, are the Shure Alcantra pads that big of an upgrade, comfort-wise? Thanks again! 

Shuto


----------



## pack21

@Evshrug 
@Conquerator2

Will this setup work for mix audio on PS4 party? a 3.5jack mic connect to X7, and control the mix audio chat/game on Android app?







I apologize for question, but has not yet become clear to me if mic/X7 issue is due to X7 mic, USB external mic or 3.5 Jack mic which is what use with K702 on mixamp.


----------



## Stillhart

@Evshrug will need to confirm, but my understanding is that currently it will NOT work like that on the PS4, only on the PC.


----------



## pack21

In this case X7 become useless as a gaming consoles device. 

If true, the promised factor "all in one box" is a lie because for PS4 is another device to join with Mixamp to play multiplayer on chat.

Will wait for @Evshrug comfirmation.


----------



## Yethal

Can't it be paired via bluetooth?


----------



## Stillhart

pack21 said:


> In this case X7 become useless as a gaming consoles device.
> 
> If true, the promised factor "all in one box" is a lie because for PS4 is another device to join with Mixamp to play multiplayer on chat.
> 
> Will wait for @Evshrug comfirmation.


 
  
 Well I think it's a little extreme to call it "useless".  There are a few surround processors that don't work with mic over USB on the PS4 and NONE of them work with Mic over USB on the Xbox One.  Because of that, there are workarounds for it, like getting this little thing for <$10.
  


yethal said:


> Can't it be paired via bluetooth?


 
  
 Not to the PS4, no.  Again, I'll let @Evshrug elaborate.  His comprehensive review is nearly complete.


----------



## shuto77

Thanks to everyone who's helped me so far! Another Headfi'er was selling his open-box AKG K7XX at cost, so I jumped on it. He said they sound identical to his Annies, so no reason to keep both. This saves me $120 to put toward the X7, so a big win for me. Just waiting for my avr to sell now... Looking forward to that big X7 review from Mr. Shrug.

Still may check out the Soundmagics and the X2 if I don't love the K7XX.


----------



## Morales1993

I'm considering moving from gaming headsets and buying high quality headphones for use with my xbox one. I've been doing research and mildly understand what's required. It seems most certain I will at least need a MixAmp Pro, an amp, and a mic to have a set-up worth having in going with this route.
  
 I'm curious though, for headphons/sets such as the 363d which is a digital surround headset, do you still need the mixamp pro for the xbox to have surround sound? Does the surround sound usb that comes with the PC363d work on the xbox one?
  
 Also, if I were to go the route of something like the q701, what would be a good amp/dac for the xbox one, and if possible, is there an amp that could be used so that a high quality headphone set like that could be used on the go, or in the gym for example?
  
  
 Thanks for you help. 
  
 I'm specifically interested in understanding if a surround sound headset like the PC 363d, which is powered with surround by the 3D G4me 1 USB would work for the Xbox one, or would you still need a MIxAmp to provide surround... in which case getting that specific headset, or any PC surround headset is foolish if you're using it primarily for console gaming...


----------



## Stillhart

morales1993 said:


> I'm considering moving from gaming headsets and buying high quality headphones for use with my xbox one. I've been doing research and mildly understand what's required. It seems most certain I will at least need a MixAmp Pro, an amp, and a mic to have a set-up worth having in going with this route.
> 
> I'm curious though, for headphons/sets such as the 363d which is a digital surround headset, do you still need the mixamp pro for the xbox to have surround sound? Does the surround sound usb that comes with the PC363d work on the xbox one?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Those USB surround dongles that come with headsets like the PC 363d do not work on consoles.  You are correct to a point that it's foolish to get one of those for console gaming... except that they're still decent headsets and you can disconnect the USB bit.  If you can find the 363d for cheaper than the 360, it's worth getting since they're the same thing.
  
 If you'd like a decent portable amp for driving the Q701, I'd suggest the Fiio E12 or maybe something like the JDSLabs C5, Cayin C5, etc.  I use a Fiio E11 for gaming and it's not super strong but it gets the job done.  It will get the volume up, but it doesn't drive the Q701 to its full potential.


----------



## Morales1993

stillhart said:


> Those USB surround dongles that come with headsets like the PC 363d do not work on consoles.  You are correct to a point that it's foolish to get one of those for console gaming... except that they're still decent headsets and you can disconnect the USB bit.  If you can find the 363d for cheaper than the 360, it's worth getting since they're the same thing.
> 
> If you'd like a decent portable amp for driving the Q701, I'd suggest the Fiio E12 or maybe something like the JDSLabs C5, Cayin C5, etc.  I use a Fiio E11 for gaming and it's not super strong but it gets the job done.  It will get the volume up, but it doesn't drive the Q701 to its full potential.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply!
  
 I probably won't go with the 363D then..
  
 With the Fiio E12 being almost double the price of the E11 do you think it's worth that much more in terms of sound quality for competitive console gaming? 
  
 Also, I'm very unfamiliar with what the need for a DAC is, and the difference/benefits between an amp and dac/ amp+dac... For example the Fiio e17, what is the benefit of a DAC+amp in comparison to a standard amp like the E11/E12?


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> Thanks to everyone who's helped me so far! *Another Headfi'er was selling his open-box AKG K7XX at cost, so I jumped on it.* He said they sound identical to his Annies, so no reason to keep both. This saves me $120 to put toward the X7, so a big win for me. Just waiting for my avr to sell now... Looking forward to that big X7 review from Mr. Shrug.
> 
> Still may check out the Soundmagics and the X2 if I don't love the K7XX.




Nice! I have those, as well, and can confirm that they are almost identical to the Annie/K712. For the price, it's a steal. Congrats


----------



## Stillhart

morales1993 said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> I probably won't go with the 363D then..
> 
> ...


 
  
 The main reason you're going to want an amp with the Q701 and Mixamp is because the Mixamp can't drive the Q701 to high enough volumes when you're also chatting.  The E11 will give you the volume to game and chat comfortably.  If you want to use the Q701 for more than just gaming, like for music on the go (which it's really not ideal for, btw), a more powerful amp will actually make the Q701 sound better.  So with the Q701, the E12 should sound better for music and such than the E11 because it's more powerful.  For just gaming, you probably don't need it.
  
 The Mixamp acts as your DAC for gaming, so if you're just using it for gaming, the E17 is only going to be used as an Amp.  No point in spending the extra money for a DAC/Amp if you just need an amp.  For music on the go or for use with your PC, the E17 can act as a DAC and amp, making it a better value.  I've never heard it tho, so I can't speak to how good it sounds.  And whether it's worth the money largely depends on how good your current DAC in your phone/PC is.
  
 Hope that helps...


----------



## pack21

stillhart said:


> Well I think it's a little extreme to call it "useless".  There are a few surround processors that don't work with mic over USB on the PS4 and NONE of them work with Mic over USB on the Xbox One.  Because of that, there are workarounds for it, like getting this little thing for <$10.
> 
> 
> Not to the PS4, no.  Again, I'll let @Evshrug elaborate.  His comprehensive review is nearly complete.


 
  
 Yes That may be one solution. Connect  3.5 mic \ USB stick  on PS4.
  
  
 But them,  how i hear people and game on the headfones, mixed 50%\50%? Or is possible somehow to control that mix Percentage?
 In MixAmp i have the correct percentage to hear well people and enjoy at same time the surround sound of game.
  
 It would be nice for those Who already have the X7 to clarify These chat issues, and how they are doing.


----------



## Morales1993

stillhart said:


> The main reason you're going to want an amp with the Q701 and Mixamp is because the Mixamp can't drive the Q701 to high enough volumes when you're also chatting.  The E11 will give you the volume to game and chat comfortably.  If you want to use the Q701 for more than just gaming, like for music on the go (which it's really not ideal for, btw), a more powerful amp will actually make the Q701 sound better.  So with the Q701, the E12 should sound better for music and such than the E11 because it's more powerful.  For just gaming, you probably don't need it.
> 
> The Mixamp acts as your DAC for gaming, so if you're just using it for gaming, the E17 is only going to be used as an Amp.  No point in spending the extra money for a DAC/Amp if you just need an amp.  For music on the go or for use with your PC, the E17 can act as a DAC and amp, making it a better value.  I've never heard it tho, so I can't speak to how good it sounds.  And whether it's worth the money largely depends on how good your current DAC in your phone/PC is.
> 
> Hope that helps...


 
  Helps a lot, thanks!


----------



## Sam21

which one has the better DAC: bifrost Uber or X7 ?


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> The X7 is... is...is? Hahaha can't wait for the full review Evs!



Thanks! Going home from dinner and hope to put it up tonight.



stillhart said:


> Halo 5 beta started today and my wife and baby are out of town for two more days.  I think I'm going to bring my Project Ember and LCD-2 into the living room and see how they do for gaming.
> 
> Overkill?  Perhaps.
> 
> Amusing?  Definitely!



You've got all the pieces, a shame not to try it out! That's why I tried the BiFrost with the PS4... Lost surround, stereo sounds weird (1D) when you get used to games having "home theater" surround (2D, sometimes manage 3D height) which is closer to how we hear things in real life, BUT the Bifrost certainly was clean and makes all the audio you hear much easier to "understand" or Grok.




stillhart said:


> Well I think it's a little extreme to call it "useless".  There are a few surround processors that don't work with mic over USB on the PS4 and NONE of them work with Mic over USB on the Xbox One.  Because of that, there are workarounds for it, like getting this little thing for <$10.
> 
> 
> Not to the PS4, no.  Again, I'll let @Evshrug
> elaborate.  His comprehensive review is nearly complete.



Mic/party chat is a bit of a puzzle, but in short the problem is how Sony and Microsoft chose to limit the control over how chat audio can be controlled: the Xbox One doesn't allow any chat audio/mic other than through their controller or Kinect, the PS4 at least allows 1st-party Bluetooth and USB with generic drivers... But none of that makes things easy for 3rd party designers. The X7 is flexible enough to mix sources and allow some semblance of a decent setup, which I'll explain in-review, but overall I wouldn't fret too much about the X7's mic... It doesn't magically sound better on PC than other shotgun mics, sounds similar to a Kinect or PS Camera mic.




sam21 said:


> which one has the better DAC: bifrost Uber or X7 ?



Close, only when A/B'd side-by-side does the Uber sound slightly more technically refined, but I would be hard pressed to say the Uber's sound is more enjoyable than the X7. For around the same price I would simply choose the X7, which throws in a DSP, dual-headphone amp, speaker amp, BT, etc... Huge value in the X7 compared to Schiit DACs.


Folks, I've gotta clean the kitchen a bit, but I think tonight's the night I'll post the full review (though I reserve the right to add to it!)


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I'm trying to unscrew the lock in the sennheiser hd 558s so I can put any cable I want in but the screws I have aren't small enough. 
Any idea what size I should look for so I can use them again?


----------



## wilflare

reading about the Mixamp 5.8 makes me rethink about getting one :/


----------



## shuto77

This is a truly fantastic thread! I have learned so much from you guys. I came here to learn about Dolby Headphone, but there is so much more to know about getting good sound for our games. *Tips hat* to everyone in the room.


----------



## Evshrug

wilflare said:


> reading about the Mixamp 5.8 makes me rethink about getting one :/



It's still _good_, and a decently flexible solution to headphone gaming, it's just that I'd call it an "entry-level" sound quality with tolerable limitations, and I'm spoiled by other options and haven't used it in about half a year. I preferred the Recon3D, and when I sold that a few months back (to a friend) in anticipation of the X7, I switched to using a Turtle Beach DSS + USB mic by Blue. Let's call the Mixamp 5.8 a middle-ground between just plugging into the PS4 controller (what I'd consider low-quality but really cool that Sony included a built-in option) and plugging into a home-theater receiver or X7 (which has a better DAC and headphone amp than most receivers, not to mention the other goodies).

The Mixamp 5.8 is fine, but the X7 has spoiled me.




shuto77 said:


> This is a truly fantastic thread! I have learned so much from you guys. I came here to learn about Dolby Headphone, but there is so much more to know about getting good sound for our games. *Tips hat* to everyone in the room.



Glad you learned, hope you had fun too!


P.S.
Stillhart's been helping me edit a bit. Sometimes I get distracted or stray off-topic, and he's provided valuable suggestions without losing my "voice."

P.P.S.
Sorry guys, been passing out and waking up, headache... Finished the cleaning but not the review, went back and changed some mic info stuff.


----------



## bavinck

I am using the mixamp 2013,boompro and x2 headphone. My friends tell me my voice sounds muffled when chatting. Anyone experience this?


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> I am using the mixamp 2013,boompro and x2 headphone. My friends tell me my voice sounds muffled when chatting. Anyone experience this?


 
 Try adjusting mic volume in PS4 settings.


----------



## bavinck

Also, I am finding the volume through my speakers on ps4 when playing Netflix is very low. Same volume settings on my reciever plays just fine on my appletv and ps3 so I know it is a ps4 issue. Anyone know of a volume limit setting on the ps4 I may have changed? It used to work just fine but have played a couple bluray and not it has the volume very low. 

I will try upping the volume on my mic.


----------



## Evshrug

X7 review is up!
Creative Labs' Sound Blaster X7
  
 This is not even my final form >


----------



## Sam21

Mixamp pro 2013 uses the AK4117VF DAC chip.
 Modi 2 Uber uses the AK4113 DAC chip.
  
 are these DACs comparable ? 
  
 Does anyone know Recon3d and Tritton's decoder's DAC chips ?
  
 Edit: I just figured Tritton's decoder uses the WM8522 DAC chip.


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> Mixamp pro 2013 uses the AK4117VF DAC chip.
> Modi 2 Uber uses the AK4113 DAC chip.
> 
> are these DACs comparable ?
> ...


 
  
 I'll tell you what EVERYONE told me when I was shopping for my first standalone DAC:  You can't compare DAC's just on the chip alone.  The implementation makes a huge difference.  In other words, two DAC's with the same chip can sound very different based on many other factors.


----------



## Sam21

I don't think different implementations make a night and day difference...consider also that You cant build a good DAC with inferior DAC chips as well...just compare SCHIIT DAC line...the better the chip, the better the DAC device...I know implementation is a factor too but not a HUGE factor as others say.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tyll put the X2 as his headphone of the year. Gotta say I agree with him. Having owned it this long, it's clear to me how special it is. Not many headphones can be neutrally balanced while still maintaining a lively bass response, open soundstage, and fantastic imaging. It's a wonderful can for any purpose I can throw at it. 

If I had to rate things, I'd say the X2 makes the best all rounder if you lean towards a neutral tonality, the Annie and K7XX would be for those who lean for a warmer, yet balanced tone, and the K612 for a brighter, neutral tone. The X1 is you wanna lean quite a bit more towards bass. MA900 for an even warmer, but mid rich response. 

Those are my faves of the year. What makes the X2 stand out for me is the bass and how it still maintains a slight amount of harmonic decay and presence whereas other headphones (other than the bit too loose X1) decays a bit too quickly to give that thump in the bass I like. Annie and K712 are no exception (which I like their bass, but I prefer the X2 bass more). There is well balanced and neutral, and then there is well balanced, neutral, and natural. I feel the X2 bass has a more natural decay even if it's technically inferior due to longer decay. Bass isn't supposed to just dissipate, and I feel a slight looseness is beneficial. This is why the Denon d7000 has always had a bass that stood out: it lingered and gave itself an omnipresence that I loved above all other bass presentations.

The X1 probably still has my fave balance on a headphone in general, though the lack of control in its bass is what puts it behind the X2 for me. The X2 is very, very close to what I love about the X1. If the X2 was a hint warmer, it would be my fave open headphone tonally of all time.


----------



## Evshrug

I agree that sometimes a modest looseness to the bass can be a nice emotional effect. Scientifically, the the X2 is not neutral or balanced... but if you're enjoying the music, who cares? It's not WAAAY colored. The K601 (& I assume the K612 is similar but with a bit boosted bass) definitely deviates less from neutral, but personal preference is more important in the end.


----------



## Stillhart

From the way you describe it, and from my experiences with the X1, it sounds like I'd really like the X2.
  
 Fortunately, my curiosity is tempered by the fact that I'm pretty set on headphones for now.  CES is next week tho, and I plan on auditioning the new Oppo, Audeze and HiFiMan cans, along with any other surprises that may come up.  Let me know if you guys are interested in anything in particular.  I'll be going on Thursday (can only take one day off for it, unfortunately).


----------



## bavinck

I really like my x2 for movies. Just enough extra rumble for me compared to the HD600, though the voices on the HD600 are unparalleled the X2 is not far behind IMO.


----------



## High Fidelity

mad lust envy said:


> Tyll put the X2 as his headphone of the year. Gotta say I agree with him. Having owned it this long, it's clear to me how special it is. Not many headphones can be neutrally balanced while still maintaining a lively bass response, open soundstage, and fantastic imaging. It's a wonderful can for any purpose I can throw at it.
> 
> If I had to rate things, I'd say the X2 makes the best all rounder if you lean towards a neutral tonality, the Annie and K7XX would be for those who lean for a warmer, yet balanced tone, and the K612 for a brighter, neutral tone. The X1 is you wanna lean quite a bit more towards bass. MA900 for an even warmer, but mid rich response.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for this. Thumbs up!
  
 I have a few questions, if you wouldn't mind answering.
  
 1. Between the X2 and K7XX, which would you suggest for all-around gaming (fps, single player games), music, TV shows once in a blue moon?
  
 2. Between the X2 and K7XX, which would you suggest for all-around gaming (fps, single player games), music, TV shows once in a blue moon, BUT with more emphasis on competitive gaming?
  
 3. Does the increased bass on the X2 throw off positioning in competitive fps, compared to the K7XX?
  
 4. In the end are these two very similar performers, maybe just different flavors of the same fruit?
  
 I'm coming from the AD700 as my most used headphones (just got the K7XX, but barely used), which I found very good for competitive gaming and just ok for everything else, music being on bottom of list. A bit bright, harsh for my liking.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> From the way you describe it, and from my experiences with the X1, it sounds like I'd really like the X2.
> 
> Fortunately, my curiosity is tempered by the fact that I'm pretty set on headphones for now.  CES is next week tho, and I plan on auditioning the new Oppo, Audeze and HiFiMan cans, along with any other surprises that may come up.  Let me know if you guys are interested in anything in particular.  I'll be going on Thursday (can only take one day off for it, unfortunately).


 
  
 If Audeze has their crazy-high impedance cans you should check them out. I really liked the early prototype.


----------



## conquerator2

Wat. Is the X2 more neutral than the K7XX??
I did not think that.


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Wat. Is the X2 more neutral than the K7XX??
> I did not think that.




To me....

No.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> To me....
> 
> No.




That is what I thought myself.
Though the X2 is still great for all things and purposes, I bet.
The X1 already was to a point


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> That is what I thought myself.
> Though the X2 is still great for all things and purposes, I bet.
> The X1 already was to a point




Which would be more neutral out of the 400i and k7xx?


----------



## rudyae86

high fidelity said:


> Thanks for this. Thumbs up!
> 
> I have a few questions, if you wouldn't mind answering.
> 
> ...


 
 Both.
  
 Although to different sound signatures, I would say both would be great all arounders but you want an answer for 1,2,3,4...I will give my opinion (Basing that I had the X1 before in which is similar to the X2 and is supposed to be better, which I do believe it is)
  
 1.X2 wins this one\
 2. K7XX wins this one although. I would give you reasons why but Im typing this before going to sleep since I have to go to work tomorrow.....booo.
 3. X2 has slightly less bass than X1. Someone will need to pitch in their opinions since, Im slowly...falling asleep.
  
 4. Similar in the form of immersion while maintaining a great level of clarity, but with different sound signatures. Kind of like 2 apples, a red delicious and the other is a golden delicious.....Both taste great, contain the same nutrients but slightly different taste, and are of a differenct color. I cant think of another analogy....
  
 Im tired lol

 Someone else can hopefully make it more clear, since this is just a quick answer, just so our head fier can get an idea...


----------



## anthonyl

I am watching this thread closely as I am in the market for a set of headphones to replace my old Logitech G35's.
  
 I did pick up a set of BeyerDynamic Custom One Pro's on Christmas Eve but they only lasted 20 minues before the right speaker gave up the ghost and stopped working..I have also seen that other people have had the exact same problem with these cans so have decided to give them a miss.
  
 I returned them to the shop where I got them from and got a full refund.
  
 The headphones i am after are purely for gaming...BF4 (first person shooters) and racing sims like Assetto Corsa. Don't listen to music except in the car when im driving my 6 kids to 4 different schools daily!!
  
 I have seen some good reviews of the *PSB M4U1* Headphones and they seem to rate quite highly and also the *AKG-702*.
  
 Am willing to spend a little money on an amp if needed...
  
 Wanting to get away from the "gaming headphones" if I can and get some good "positional" audio happening.
  
 Anyone care to give me their opinions on the above cans please?
  
 Forgot to mention that I have a Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatality Pro sound card.


----------



## rudyae86

You are like me my friend. I play racing sims as well, as just as much as BF4. I would definitely recommend the X1/X2 as the overall headphone or if you want to go the AKG side, the K712/K7XX will be a great all arounder as well.

I use to own the X1 and it was great when playing racing sims and BF4. Now that I have K7XX, sound signature is bit different but Assetto Corsa sounds really good. Even GT6 sounds good with the K7XX as well.


----------



## martin vegas

stillhart said:


> From the way you describe it, and from my experiences with the X1, it sounds like I'd really like the X2.
> 
> Fortunately, my curiosity is tempered by the fact that I'm pretty set on headphones for now.  CES is next week tho, and I plan on auditioning the new Oppo, Audeze and HiFiMan cans, along with any other surprises that may come up.  Let me know if you guys are interested in anything in particular.  I'll be going on Thursday (can only take one day off for it, unfortunately).


 

 You have enough pairs of headphones for gaming now Stillhart..save up and get a pair of the flagship headphones for listening to music now,I have the lcd3 and ps1000s..my ps1000 are my go to headphone, the lcd3's sound like a good pair of speakers with a subwoofer added!


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> You have enough pairs of headphones for gaming now Stillhart..save up and get a pair of the flagship headphones for listening to music now,I have the lcd3 and ps1000s..my ps1000 are my go to headphone, the lcd3's sound like a good pair of speakers with a subwoofer added!


 
 I'm on the LCD-2 right now for non-gaming purposes and they're (obviously) pretty nice.  I am holding off on any more big headphone purchases until CanJam in March.  
  
 Tho I may be an NFB-28 between now and then...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is neutral tonality and neutral frequency curve. Tyll even mentioned this in his review. The line may not be straight, but when you actually listen to it, it sounds neutral. This is why you can't just take graphs as gospel. 

The X2 is the most neutral sounding headphone I have heard outside of the Alpha Dog which was still on the bright side.

The bass sounds neither warm nor thin. The mids don't sound neither warm nor cold, nor forward nor recessed. The treble is slightly bright, but still neutral sounding. What does that sound like to you, because that to me sounds like a neutral sounding headphone.

As for the X2 vs the AKGs, they're two different sides of we'll balanced. The AKGs are on the warm side, with less bass and more mid presence, while the X2 is more bass presence.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> There is neutral tonality and neutral frequency curve. Tyll even mentioned this in his review. The line may not be straight, but when you actually listen to it, it sounds neutral. This is why you can't just take graphs as gospel.
> 
> The X2 is the most neutral sounding headphone I have heard outside of the Alpha Dog which was still on the bright side.
> 
> ...




This is why some of us don't consider the X2 to be the more neutral of the two. You, however, do because your ears are accustomed to a more present bass response. This is a debate that will get us nowhere, because we all hear different.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The bass is slightly above neutral and slightly loose. I'm not contesting that at all. However, again, I'm referring to tonality. The X2 has a more neutral tone than the AKGs. Not even debatable to me, and you all know how much I love those AKGs. The AKGs are considerably warm in tone. The X2 isn't.


----------



## FDDreamer

My K612 arrived a couple of days ago but I thought I'd wait until posting anything as I was so completely amazed by them that anything I wrote would have made little sense.
  
 So, a few days in, and I'm still just mesmerised by them.  I was expecting a change from my other headsets (which have all been 'gaming' products) but nothing like this.  I didn't even play a game the first night I got them as listening to music was such a joy.  I don't want to go OT so won't say much more on that, other than it makes me want to listen to everything I can think of to enjoy how the music really sounds. 
  
 Eventually I tore myself away from music and booted up Borderlands: The Presequel.  Immediately everything sounded clearer, although I did feel the bass provided by some of my other sets (mainly the Siberia V2s and the Tactic3D Omegas) was definitely fuller.  Not to say the K612 is weak in that area - just that it provides a sound that is more balanced.  Speech and other sound effects, for example, come across with much more clarity.  After the initial run with all SBX features off, I turned the Surround option all the way up to 100%.
  
 At this point I began to see the true difference - the positional accuracy of these headphones is light years ahead of anything I've used before.  Now Borderlands isn't really the kind of game that benefits from really scrutinising the sound effects (in the same way one might want to in a competitive FPS) but I felt like I could hear not only which direction action was happening in but also an impression of the distance away from me.  The only downside I felt was that the sounds coming from behind were actually a bit hard to distinguish from the sounds coming from directly above or even towards the front.  I returned to the Sound Blaster control panel and reduced the Surround to 66%, before trying again.
  
 This, to me, sounded better if only because the volume of the rear sounds seemed to be slightly diminished.  I guess this would count against you in a competitive FPS, but for my purposes this actually helped me place the direction of sound a little better.  The other thing I noticed was I could get a sense of the verticality of a sound.  For example, I was in a room that I'd never been in before and being spoken to by a NPC.  I had no idea where he was, but just by following the sound of his voice I looked left and up and voila - one lunatic in mid-speech.
  
 Since then I've made on further change, which was to activate the SBX Crystalizer and set it to around 50%.  I'm not sure if this is recommended or not (certainly all other options in ths suite seem pretty awful) but I seem to have gained a degree of punch from low to high frequencies (making the sound a little more visceral and direct) with no discernable drawback.  To my surprise music (with Surround off though!) also sounds better.  Does anyone else with the same soundcard/software use this feature? 
  
 All in all I'm delighted with the K612 and would recommend them whole-heartedly to anyone looking for an entry into the world of proper headphones.  I paid under £100 for them delivered, which to my mind is an absolute bargain.  I keep reading about the X2, and would definitely like to try one, but for now I am completely amazed with the K612 especially considering the cost less than half of what I could buy an X2 for.
  
 Thanks again to you guys for your help and advice - I'm off to put a few more hours on these bad boys!


----------



## idrr

hi
 i will buy a k712 pro+ soundblaster zx or zxr
  
 is it excellent for gaming?
 can you seguesst a better choice?
  
 thank you very  much


----------



## Stillhart

idrr said:


> hi
> i will buy a k712 pro+ soundblaster zx or zxr
> 
> is it excellent for gaming?
> ...


 
 That is an excellent setup for PC gaming, yes.  
  
 Maybe someone who's heard the ZxR can comment on whether it's better to get a ZxR or a Z and a Magni/O2/E09k/etc.


----------



## idrr

stillhart said:


> That is an excellent setup for PC gaming, yes.
> 
> Maybe someone who's heard the ZxR can comment on whether it's better to get a ZxR or a Z and a Magni/O2/E09k/etc.


 
 thank you


----------



## Yethal

I've tested the Soundblaster Recon 3d for a few days. Aside from the very noticeable difference in sound quality as a whole (audible even in the PS4 menu) I couldn't really differentiate it from the Dolby Headphone used by the Mixamp. Am I doing something wrong or is the difference so subtle, my ears haven't picked it up?


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> That is an excellent setup for PC gaming, yes.
> 
> Maybe someone who's heard the ZxR can comment on whether it's better to get a ZxR or a Z and a Magni/O2/E09k/etc.


 

I am interested in this as well. I am trying to finish up my sick new PC build. All I have left to buy is sound. I need some advice from you guys. This forum has been wonderful and the information here has been great but I'm finding myself very confused at this point.

My needs are, headphones, sound card or dac and amp.

I love edm and bassy music such as hip hop, the setup needs to be great for playing competitive fps games (very important).

I am in a very loud living room environment with my girlfriend watching tv, on the phone or just generally being noisy so I am concerned about buying open back headphones, though, without them I feel like I will lose my edge in competitive gaming.

Money is no object here, I am looking for the best setup with my needs met as I am new to this. I currently have the v-mode m-100's with a boom mic attached going direct to onboard alc 1150 Realtek audio with sbx onboard. The m-100's are very heavy and hot and they become uncomfortable to wear in less then and hour, though they do sound great for music but I'm not a fan of there positional accuracy and sound stage.

So to reiterate, I need a bass heavy headphone that will do well in a noisy environment, be great at competitive gaming and be comfortable for long wear times. I also need either a sound card or dac/amp recommendation that will surpass the new Realtek alc 1150 with sbx for my PC and be able to drive the recommended headphones.

Currently from what I gathered, the fidelio x2's with my boom mic and a magni 2 hooked up to my onboard sound or possibly a soundcard would be my best option. But like I said I'm lost.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I've tested the Soundblaster Recon 3d for a few days. Aside from the very noticeable difference in sound quality as a whole (audible even in the PS4 menu) I couldn't really differentiate it from the Dolby Headphone used by the Mixamp. Am I doing something wrong or is the difference so subtle, my ears haven't picked it up?


 
  
 I suggest plugging it into your PC to check the settings.  I think it comes with some wonky default settings.  Then be sure to save the settings to the device before you unplug it or it will revert when you plug it into your console.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > I've tested the Soundblaster Recon 3d for a few days. Aside from the very noticeable difference in sound quality as a whole (audible even in the PS4 menu) I couldn't really differentiate it from the Dolby Headphone used by the Mixamp. Am I doing something wrong or is the difference so subtle, my ears haven't picked it up?
> ...


 
 I did configure it. I set it to 100% surround with no crystallizer and no bass boost. Still sounds pretty mixamp-y to me. Maybe the settings were not saved.


----------



## conquerator2

^ Try 67 Surround.
 I preferred it to 100.
 With the SBX, many people prefer different settings so try experimenting yourself


----------



## Yethal

With all the other options to off? I tried the Crystallizer and though I could hear the difference I'm not sure if it helps


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I did configure it. I set it to 100% surround with no crystallizer and no bass boost. Still sounds pretty mixamp-y to me. Maybe the settings were not saved.


 
  
  


conquerator2 said:


> ^ Try 67 Surround.
> I preferred it to 100.
> With the SBX, many people prefer different settings so try experimenting yourself


 
  
 This.  Chicolom's video showed that 100% SBX sound a lot more immersive and "Mixampy".  66% surround gives more precise placement at the cost of some "immersion" and "realism".
  
 And yeah, everything else off.


----------



## John_M

The Creative X7 which everyone seems to be buying costs about $399 new, and has no HDMI input, right?
  
 The Sony MDR-HW700DS can be had for less than that on eBay and has HDMI passthrough with Sony's own virtual surround algorithm. Don't know if Sony's algorithm (or headphones) are any good but worth a try surely, given that it can virtualise a lossless 7.1 input, whereas optical only has enough bandwidth for lossy 5.1 (Dolby Digital is a pretty ancient format now).
  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-SONY-MDR-HW700DS-9-1ch-Digital-Surround-Wireless-Headphone-System-from-Japan-/151155512509?pt=US_Headphones&hash=item23319214bd
  
 ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Not worth it. No binaural passthrough so dependency on the SONY earphones unavoidable. Center sounds in your head which is horrible for watching movies with speaker room HRTF. HD 800 + SBX completely removes that "uncanny" effect. 

X7 definitely recommended above the SONY though ac3 only is ridiculous


----------



## John_M

> Center sounds in your head which is horrible for watching movies with speaker room HRTF


  
 What do you mean? It's true that you're taking a punt on whether the Sony headphones are any good but surely whether you get "center sounds on your head" depends on the quality of Sony's virtual surround sound technology? I don't know whether this is any good but it seems to have decent reviews on Amazon.


----------



## benbenkr

john_m said:


> The Creative X7 which everyone seems to be buying costs about $399 new, and has no HDMI input, right?
> 
> The Sony MDR-HW700DS can be had for less than that on eBay and has HDMI passthrough with Sony's own virtual surround algorithm. Don't know if Sony's algorithm (or headphones) are any good but worth a try surely, given that it can virtualise a lossless 7.1 input, whereas optical only has enough bandwidth for lossy 5.1 (Dolby Digital is a pretty ancient format now).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Said this several times already, Sony's VSS DSP is poor. Listen to DLPII and you pretty much have listened to Sony's VSS (of course one is upmix and the other is downmix, which makes Sony's VSS even worse in comparison). Rear cues are just... almost non existant. It's too roomy and has very poor placement.
  
 Dolby Headphone may be ancient, but... it's still great and that's all that really matters. Sound aren't visuals where we need to have more and more prettier things to look at everyday, great sound lives forever.


----------



## Yethal

Okay, did some standard testing in P.T (seriously, this demo has an amazing audio engine). 67% Is great. Too bad I have to unplug it from the PC to adjust the settings. I recommend You guys use this demo for positional accuracy testing. It's amazing


----------



## John_M

benbenkr said:


> Said this several times already, Sony's VSS DSP is poor. Listen to DLPII and you pretty much have listened to Sony's VSS (of course one is upmix and the other is downmix, which makes Sony's VSS even worse in comparison). Rear cues are just... almost non existant. It's too roomy and has very poor placement.
> 
> Dolby Headphone may be ancient, but... it's still great and that's all that really matters. Sound aren't visuals where we need to have more and more prettier things to look at everyday, great sound lives forever.


 

 Ah, didn't realise Sony's DSP was no good.
  
 Still, I can't see why nobody produces anything (other than an AVR or a Smyth Realiser) with HDMI in + Dolby Headphone or DTX Headphone:X...


----------



## Yethal

john_m said:


> benbenkr said:
> 
> 
> > Said this several times already, Sony's VSS DSP is poor. Listen to DLPII and you pretty much have listened to Sony's VSS (of course one is upmix and the other is downmix, which makes Sony's VSS even worse in comparison). Rear cues are just... almost non existant. It's too roomy and has very poor placement.
> ...


 
 Because virtual surround is still a niche within a niche.


----------



## John_M

yethal said:


> Because virtual surround is still a niche within a niche.


 

 I guess, but the gaming headphone/ surround market is pretty sizeable, and all the manufacturers must be paying Dolby for the right to make products that decode Dolby Digital. Why not just use superior HDMI tech instead? Sony have managed it (albeit with poor sound processing)...


----------



## Yethal

john_m said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Because virtual surround is still a niche within a niche.
> ...


 
 Because then they would be paying Dolby and the HDMI LLC, also the surround market is riddiculously small compared to the number of average Joe E Gamers who just plug their noname headsets into the onboard cards.


----------



## John_M

An AKG Hearo system would do a better job of producing virtual surround than the X7, Mixamp or DSS. The reason is that it allows for personalised HRTFs. The only other thing which does this is the Smyth Realiser. And it has optical inputs/ can decode Dolby Digital, so can be used with consoles.
  
 Someone is selling them new for 1,000 euros on eBay but there is a much cheaper second hand one up for grabs here:
  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AKG-Hearo-999-Audiosphere-II-Wireless-Surround-Kopfhrer-Dolby-Digital-ProLogic-/141524615557
  
 Not bidding myself because I own both a Realiser and a 7.1 AVR with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## John_M

> Delete - double post...


----------



## lenroot77

I'm going to list a few things on eBay soon, but before I do I thought I'd check here to see if anyone is interested first. All items are in great condition, I have original packaging and I can send pics upon request. 

Thanks

Astro A30
Mixamp 2011
Senn header pc350 se

If u have any interest please send me a pm. I'm open to trades too.


----------



## conquerator2

I have two DSPs for sale myself. Check my sig if interested


----------



## Yethal

You guys are kidding me. I sold my 2010 mixamp three hours ago.


----------



## Stillhart

$100 for a Recon?  Man, maybe I should sell mine... both of them...  Move up to something BUMPIN like the A50!


----------



## Yethal

I bought mine for 30$. Not sure if sale or Conquerator2 is charging more than he should.


----------



## anthonyl

rudyae86 said:


> You are like me my friend. I play racing sims as well, as just as much as BF4. I would definitely recommend the X1/X2 as the overall headphone or if you want to go the AKG side, the K712/K7XX will be a great all arounder as well.
> 
> I use to own the X1 and it was great when playing racing sims and BF4. Now that I have K7XX, sound signature is bit different but Assetto Corsa sounds really good. Even GT6 sounds good with the K7XX as well.


 

 Well I bit the bullet and went with the PSBM4U-1 headphones (replacing my Logitech G35's).... OMG! WOW! What!!! Such an amazing difference!!
  
 Playing BF4 for the first time was like ..Holy shiat! The gunfire was so crisp and loud and clear..the explosions were loud and "boomier" without distortion... the positional sound might need a little tweaking as some sounds were lost when I moved around a little.... but overall...I am amazed!
  
 I currently have a X-Fix Titanium Fatality Pro soundcard and Logitech 5.1 Z-5500 speakers and was considering a soundcard "upgrade".. Is there anything that "shines" above the X-Fi Titanum for a setup like mine?
  
 Goodbye "gaming headsets".....never again will you darken my door!!


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I bought mine for 30$. Not sure if sale or Conquerator2 is charging more than he should.


 
  
 The price is a function of supply and demand and they're not making them as standalone units anymore.  It was not my intention to imply that Conq is charging too much; I trust that he's pricing it based on market rate.  I was just surprised at how the market rate has changed.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, I bought mine for around 80-90USD... that's what it retails/retailed here for. Shipping will eat 20 - 40 easily, if not more [I pay priority, tracked and insured].
 PP fees, etc... hardly any profit in it for me, is there?
 I see it at 199 at Amazon. I think 100 is a very fair deal, inflation or not. YMMV.
 You can buy a decent DH device from me at half of that [which retails/retailed for double...] Or pay up for an SBX one. Or not. Up to you


----------



## Yethal

anthonyl said:


> I currently have a X-Fix Titanium Fatality Pro soundcard and Logitech 5.1 Z-5500 speakers and was considering a soundcard "upgrade".. Is there anything that "shines" above the X-Fi Titanum for a setup like mine?
> 
> Goodbye "gaming headsets".....never again will you darken my door!!


 
 Xonar Essence line is pretty great, pick whichever one You can afford
  



stillhart said:


> The price is a function of supply and demand and they're not making them as standalone units anymore.  It was not my intention to imply that Conq is charging too much; I trust that he's pricing it based on market rate.  I was just surprised at how the market rate has changed.


 
 I really should start using emoticons to mark the not-serious posts.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> I really should start using emoticons to mark the not-serious posts.


 
  
 Either that or imply the A50 and/or Beats is awesome.  Then we'll know for sure.


----------



## Yethal

It's a tough one with A50s, that swivel mute is actually nifty.


----------



## rudyae86

anthonyl said:


> Well I bit the bullet and went with the PSBM4U-1 headphones (replacing my Logitech G35's).... OMG! WOW! What!!! Such an amazing difference!!
> 
> Playing BF4 for the first time was like ..Holy shiat! The gunfire was so crisp and loud and clear..the explosions were loud and "boomier" without distortion... the positional sound might need a little tweaking as some sounds were lost when I moved around a little.... but overall...I am amazed!
> 
> ...


 
  
 So you went with a portable like headphone? Similar to a Sennheiser Momentum, closed back design.....
  
 Nothing against it since it does have good reviews, but I would say that it was meant more for music than for anything else (like the T51i that MLE reviewed).
  
 Also, it seems you are more of a bass head kind of guy, so in the end, you wanted to be immersed into the game.
  
 Now you wont be competitive with that headphone. Dont know how much bass it has or how the highs sound or how much the mids are recessed....but sound stage would be small compared to the X1 or any other open back headphone that alot of people recommend in here.
  
 And from what I have read shortly, it seems like its a headphone that was built more for bass and immersion....a colored headphone I would say. Hope Im prove wrong but its not a balanced headphone compared to the X1.
  
 IMO, you could have had better for 250 dollars but everyone is different and the only way you learn about headphones, is by trying them out....
  
 But oh well, if you like it, you like it 
  
 Also, dont know about the X-Fi Titanium but my Sound Blaster Z sounds really good while using my AKG K7XX. Its incredible, reminds me of the first time I got my X1 back in January.....I was amazed by the sound.
  
 Reviews seem to favor the SB Z alot, so you might have to research more about a comparison between your X-Fi and the SB Z


----------



## nayajoeun

@Stillhart
  
 Oh man, I am kicking myself after reading all these awesome comments about the X7 (especially EVSHRUGS short review).
  
 For the amount I just forked out for the Peachtree DAC ITX + PYST cables, I could have purchased the X7.
  
  
  
 (1) Is it just me (as I seem to be able to distinguish location based sounds fine through stereo from the PS4) or does the PS4 simulate some sort of surround through basic stereo?
  
  
  
 My go to test was to stay in an empty house in Far Cry 4 with a Blackhawk hovering around outside. I'd close my eyes and follow the sound of the chopper and try to keep it in the 'middle' of the screen, i.e. look directly at it. When it stops moving, I'd open my eyes and check to see how accurate I was LOL.
  
 I'd have the horizontal position dead on but height/depth I miss by a few 'in-game metres' if that makes sense.
  
  
  
  
 Now bitterness is kicking in and I'm considering returning the Peachtree w/ a restocking cost to obtain the X7.... hmmmm
  
  
 Bloody blokes from the the main hi-fi dealership in Aus (Addicted to Audio for any Aussies out there) went on and on about how much a gimmick VSS is. I asked him if he tried it too and he said no (no surprise there lol!)
  
 That's the last time I take advice from those guys regarding VSS hahaha.
  
  
  
 (2) P.S.* - Would a wider sound-stage in stereo help with imaging and location?
  
  
  
  
 Bah, I'll just try out the peachtree before making a decision.
  
 I really like the smaller details a better DAC + PCM brings... stone chips ricocheting from bullet impacts to the metal on metal screech as you reload an empty clip from the AK  
  
 But the X7 might bring out those details from Dolby Digital that the DSS just muddies up! EV seems to think so!
  
  
  
 Again, thanks for everyones' input and thoughts and apologies for the great wall of text!
  
  
 Peace!


----------



## Evshrug

^Did you know I finished my "full" review (subject to revision), or were you joking when you said short? Lol! Hopefully you said short because it wasn't too much to take in!

Are you playing FC4 on PC? If you're mainly a PC gamer, you can keep using your Peachtree and pick up Creative's standalone software suite. You might notice the extra processing overhead as a few less frames per second, but the software allows you to use whatever hardware you want (as far as I know). I picked the X7 because I wanted something for PC, Mac, and console, all in one piece of hardware.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> ^Did you know I finished my "full" review (subject to revision), or were you joking when you said short? Lol! Hopefully you said short because it wasn't too much to take in!
> 
> Are you playing FC4 on PC? If you're mainly a PC gamer, you can keep using your Peachtree and pick up Creative's standalone software suite. You might notice the extra processing overhead as a few less frames per second, but the software allows you to use whatever hardware you want (as far as I know). I picked the X7 because I wanted something for PC, Mac, and console, all in one piece of hardware.


 
 Wait you said creative has a standalone software suite? How did I not know about this? lol
  
 Well either way, Im still happy with my SB Z....plus I dont have a core I7 5930k to be running so much stuff at the same time, hence will lose some fps while using this core i3 w/ my r9 270
  
 In terms of sound quality, how would using higher end components along with Creatives suite compare to the X7 or Zxr?
  
 Seems like PC Master Race has more options for better sound than consoles


----------



## nayajoeun

@Evshrug - Hahah I was joking, great review btw and quite in-depth!
  
  
 I do all my gaming on my PS4!
  
 PC got taken out by power surge during a vicious storm a few years back and PC part prices are ridiculous in AUS. 
  
  
 Thank you however for the info regarding the software suite, I'll actually pick that up to use for movies and such on my broke-ass 6 year old laptop 
  
 I had no idea they did! 
  
 Only one I tried was Razer and that I found was quite bad!
  
 Edit - Thanks!


----------



## idrr

1-who is better V-moda BoomPro or AntLion ModMic
 2-is the V-moda BoomPro mice works with the akg k712 pro?
  
 thank you


----------



## Yethal

idrr said:


> 1-who is better V-moda BoomPro or AntLion ModMic
> 2-is the V-moda BoomPro mice works with the akg k712 pro?
> 
> thank you


 
 1. Both are great as far as the sound quality goes
 2. You'll need an adapter, check this thread:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted/120#post_11181773


----------



## idrr

yethal said:


> 1. Both are great as far as the sound quality goes
> 2. You'll need an adapter, check this thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted/120#post_11181773


 
 thank you very much but  what do you mean by as far as the sound quality goes


----------



## bavinck

He means they both sound good.


----------



## idrr

bavinck said:


> He means they both sound good.


 
 thanks


----------



## wilflare

a local store sells a brand new Recon3D for around US$120 :/
 I'm honestly tempted but I should just save for the X7


----------



## anthonyl

rudyae86 said:


> So you went with a portable like headphone? Similar to a Sennheiser Momentum, closed back design.....
> 
> Nothing against it since it does have good reviews, but I would say that it was meant more for music than for anything else (like the T51i that MLE reviewed).
> 
> ...


 

 When you say the "X1" are you reffering to the Phillips Fidelio X-1?
  
 Sorry..I am a bit of a noob when it comes to "quality" sound gear...have been slaved to my old Logitech G35's for so long.
  
 Might have a bit of trouble getting the "X-1" here in Australia...are there any other cans you would recommend? Some of the AKG gear is easier to get..like the AKG K-702 / K-612 /
  
 The 712 Pro are like AUD $700.00 here which is way over what I want to spend..


----------



## Change is Good

Man, this is all I wanted when I used to own my other AKGs. Simplicity!
  
 PS4 > Mixamp 5.8 > K7XX w/BoomPro
  
*FTW*
  
 Thanks, @Zombie_X, for the adaptor that made this all possible!


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> Man, this is all I wanted when I used to own my other AKGs. Simplicity!
> 
> PS4 > Mixamp 5.8 > K7XX w/BoomPro
> 
> ...




Can the mixamp drive akg headphones sufficiently?


----------



## Change is Good

burritoboy9984 said:


> Can the mixamp drive akg headphones sufficiently?




I only had the Recon 3D and mixamp 2011 when I first had the Q701/Annie/K712. Then, I always felt the need to double amp with my e12. I thought I would need to, again, since I bought the K7XX, but surprisingly, I am not feeling the need to do so as much as I used to.

Maybe my ears have now been trained to enjoy lower volumes, or the 5.8 has a little more juice than the others I've used.


----------



## NamelessPFG

How'd the Recon3D USB shoot up this much in price? Back when I bought my unit for review a few years back, they weren't even $50 shipped!
  
 I've also heard they've had a few more firmware updates since then. I can only hope they improved the positional audio quality, because I was left rather disappointed for both PC and console use when I had mine. Sold it to Evs, kept my SU-DH1.
  
 Meanwhile, I'm still holding out for a virtual surround processor with HDMI-in and without the Smyth Realiser's astronomical price tag. I guess the only shot I've got is to replace our aging HDMI-less AVR with a modern HDMI 2.0-compliant one that supports Dolby Headphone...if that combination actually exists at all.
  
 All that trouble for finding suitable products, and it basically boils down to our new Wii U...only thing really keeping that on the backburner is that Smash isn't the sort of game that needs surround sound at all.


----------



## crun

Yesterday, after more than 6 years of heavy use, I broke my HD555.
  
 Now I am looking for new headphones (or headset), however I would love it to be wireless. The problem is that I mainly use headphones for playing, often competitive games (currently CS:GO).
  
 I was hyped for RS 160 till I've about sound delay (https://sennheiserusa.happyfox.com/kb/article/146-sound-is-slightly-behind-the-video-image-or-speaker-sound). I won't stand laggy sound paired with high frequency/FPS gaming...  Can RS160/170/180 user comment on that?
  
 Unfortunately, none of the wireless headphones reviewed by the OP are available in Poland.


----------



## crocandy

After a quick bit of advice if possible. 

I have X2>mixamp 2011>ps4 I'm using a boompro as a mic but I'm really struggling to find a decent balance between the chat and the game volume. 

The mix amp is setup as using optical with only 5.1 ticked and also set to dolby 5.1. I have the settings for chat audio selected and have the headphone setting set to max. 

The issue I have is that to hear the chat audio I have it set to almost max chat on the mixamp which makes the game volume audible but i feel I am not really experiencing the X2s at their best. 

Does anyone know if I can change something or if i have been a noob when selecting the settings?

Ta


----------



## Yethal

crun said:


> Yesterday, after more than 6 years of heavy use, I broke my HD555.
> 
> Now I am looking for new headphones (or headset), however I would love it to be wireless. The problem is that I mainly use headphones for playing, often competitive games (currently CS:GO).
> 
> ...


 
 When I bought my mixamp I bought it straight from the astro's website, same with the Schiit Stack and the ModMic. It's tough but You'll get used to it.


----------



## anthonyl

The store said I could return the PSB's... so now I just need to figure out what to get.
  
 The AKG K702 are in stock and so are the AKG K612 ...would they be excellent for gaming?


----------



## pack21

AkG 702 are one of the best for gaming.

For gaming you want the best in, airy, highest soundstage, details and not a bassy headfone.


----------



## Sam21

Immersive gaming == DT990
  
 Competitive gaming = K702
  
 Casual gaming = HD598
  
 Music == Grado SR225i


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> The store said I could return the PSB's... so now I just need to figure out what to get.
> 
> The AKG K702 are in stock and so are the AKG K612 ...would they be excellent for gaming?


 
  
 K702 will be better for competitive gaming.  K612 will be slightly worse for competitive gaming (though still very very good) but better all-around.
  


pack21 said:


> AkG 702 are one of the best for gaming.
> 
> For gaming you want the best in, airy, highest soundstage, details and not a bassy headfone.


 
  
 Please keep in mind that this applies only to competitive FPS.  For general, all-around gaming, you want a more balanced sound.


----------



## crun

Okay, screw that wireless idea of mine. I might try in the future something like Yethal suggested. 
  
 Is K702 noticably better than HD598 in competitive FPS enviroment? Even if it is, I think I am still leaning Sennheiser's headset, because HD555 lasted for so many years for me (6 years was probably an understatement, probably more like 8) and has it always felt really comfortable for me. HD598 is noticably cheaper too.
  
 Headset will be plugged to Realtek ALC1150. I guess it is enough to run HD598, but K702?
 I also have Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatality Pro (I think that's the one) but it tends to some loud nasty sounds from time to time. Not using it right now, will probably remove it from my rig


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For some strange reason (strange = I'm super lazy), I'm about a month late in posting the T70 review on here.

Well, it's on the guide now guys. Enjoy....


----------



## burritoboy9984

http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/4/7491833/neoh-headphones-3d-sound-labs-ces-2015


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not a bad price point. They need to sell the tech to be used for any headphone.


----------



## rudyae86

anthonyl said:


> When you say the "X1" are you reffering to the Phillips Fidelio X-1?
> 
> Sorry..I am a bit of a noob when it comes to "quality" sound gear...have been slaved to my old Logitech G35's for so long.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, Im refering to the Fidelio X1 
  
 Well you can always opt for the K612 since its the more bang for you buck from the AKG line.
  
 But there also the question....what are you really looking for?
  
 More immersion or more competitive type headphone?
  
 You dont need to spend 300 dollars on a headphone, you could but you dont have to.


----------



## anthonyl

I have ..right now.. on my round bald head..a set of AKG K612 Pro...(just picked them up)..
  
 Have just played a few rounds of BF4 and I think I might need an amp.... positional sounds are awesome and crisp and clear... I just have everything turned up to max volume and I think distortion is due to that.
  
 Not sure if my Creative Titanium Fatal1ty Pro has a "headphone amp" or not.
  
 Might look at getting a better sound card.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> For some strange reason (strange = I'm super lazy), I'm about a month late in posting the T70 review on here.
> 
> Well, it's on the guide now guys. Enjoy....


 
  
 You linked the T51p in the T70 review.  Here's the T70 review link if anyone's having a lazy day:  http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-t70/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thanks a lot broslice. I don't know how that even happened. :rolleyes:

The Urbanite on ear review should be up soonish.

The Schiit Vali after that, and the next headphone after will be the X2. I'll try and add in a bit more in the specific gaming portion of my reviews that gets submitted to headphone.guru, since that section of my reviews isn't submitted there. I had completely forgotten to fill that part in the T70 review until today, and it feels half done. AH well. I'll make sure the X2 gets more loving there. The Urbanite is another headphone like the T51 that I feel isn't exactly gaming friendly so I won't add much with that one. The T70 did though.


----------



## rudyae86

So is the urbanite great for music then? Lol or is the t51i still the better option for music?

Also MLE, have you considered trying out the Phillips SHP9500? 

I think it performs well with FPS and its price is cheap, usually hovers around 60-80 bucks. Has a detachable cable.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks a lot broslice. I don't know how that even happened. :rolleyes:
> 
> The Urbanite on ear review should be up soonish.
> 
> The Schiit Vali after that, and the next headphone after will be the X2. I'll try and add in a bit more in the specific gaming portion of my reviews that gets submitted to headphone.guru, since that section of my reviews isn't submitted there. I had completely forgotten to fill that part in the T70 review until today, and it feels half done. AH well. I'll make sure the X2 gets more loving there. The Urbanite is another headphone like the T51 that I feel isn't exactly gaming friendly so I won't add much with that one. The T70 did though.




Anyway you could do a direct comparison to the x1's for gaming purposes?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, as I don't have the X1. You can expect the X2 to score slightly lower in fun and slightly higher in competitive. That's all I'll say for now.


----------



## phobia337

Hope everyones holiday time off was spent wisely. I for one spent 40+ hours behind the AKG K612 Pros and I'm thrilled with the route I went.
  
 My setup of PS4 optical out to Sound blaster Z optical in, then Sound blaster Z optical out to AVR 5:1 setup, then lastly, my K612s out the Sound blaster Z headphone jack. I can game on the PS4 and PC without having to unplug anything. I can even switch to the 5:1 surround sound system when I have people over. This was the perfect setup for my needs and it has been working amazing.
  
 My last piece of equipment I will need to purchase soon is a USB mic with mic stand, this would complete my gaming station.


----------



## Stillhart

phobia337 said:


> Hope everyones holiday time off was spent wisely. I for one spent 40+ hours behind the AKG K612 Pros and I'm thrilled with the route I went.
> 
> My setup of PS4 optical out to Sound blaster Z optical in, then Sound blaster Z optical out to AVR 5:1 setup, then lastly, my K612s out the Sound blaster Z headphone jack. I can game on the PS4 and PC without having to unplug anything. I can even switch to the 5:1 surround sound system when I have people over. This was the perfect setup for my needs and it has been working amazing.
> 
> My last piece of equipment I will need to purchase soon is a USB mic with mic stand, this would complete my gaming station.


 
  
 Glad to hear it's working out for you!
  
 Have you tried plugging the headphone into the AVR for more amping?  It might improve the sound with the K612's.  Everything already setup, should be easy enough to A/B and see which you like better...


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> Glad to hear it's working out for you!
> 
> Have you tried plugging the headphone into the AVR for more amping?  It might improve the sound with the K612's.  Everything already setup, should be easy enough to A/B and see which you like better...


 
 I sure did Still, 
  
 Before the Sound Blaster Z arrived I was running them off the amp of the AVR. It was decent but I think the AVR being a cheaper model was causing some issues(popping and hissing). Now, the Sound Blaster Z headphone amp from my little experience seems to do a good job with these headphones. I'm guessing the Z output impedance and the 120ohm headphones line up well together. Plus the Z amp pushes the hell out these headphones.
  
 I ran them through their paces this weekend with Insurgency, Day Z standalone, Company of Heroes 2, COD AW, EA UFC, and Alien Isolation. Very happy with the sound quality for gaming.


----------



## Stillhart

Oh that's right, I forgot (again).  Well cool.  
  
 Welcome to Head-fi, sorry about your wallet!


----------



## anthonyl

Can anyone help please..
  
 Yesterday I bought the Sound Blaster Zx sound card (because it has the headphone amp in it)...
  
 Well the volume is very very low...I have everything set to 100% but its not very loud at all (with my AKG K612 Pro's).
  
 All volume sliders in both Windows and SB config are on 100%.. I have also plugged headphones directly into the sound card and not the breakout unit to see if amplification is lost using the breakout unit but the volume is still very very low..
  
 I am thinking of returning the card as it just sound aweful.


----------



## cdsa35000

Did you try up the EQ Level to +12dB that will boost audio 4x louder, if you can't hear distorsion/clipping than its good to use:


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> Can anyone help please..
> 
> Yesterday I bought the Sound Blaster Zx sound card (because it has the headphone amp in it)...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Make sure you're plugged into the headphone out and not the line out.


----------



## anthonyl

stillhart said:


> Make sure you're plugged into the headphone out and not the line out.


 
 Done that....


----------



## phobia337

anthonyl said:


> Can anyone help please..
> 
> Yesterday I bought the Sound Blaster Zx sound card (because it has the headphone amp in it)...
> 
> ...


 
 Did you disable your on-board sound in bios? It sounds like you are still operating from the OB rather than the Z


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> Done that....


 
  
 Then it sounds like there's something wrong with your card.  Mine has no such volume issues with the Q701.  
  
 BTW, every sound card has a headphone amp.  Sound Blaster just likes to market theirs like it's something unique, which it's not.  Clearly they're doing a good job.
  
 If you don't need/want the little volume knob thingy on the Zx, just get the Z.  They're the same thing otherwise.


----------



## anthonyl

phobia337 said:


> Did you disable your on-board sound in bios? It sounds like you are still operating from the OB rather than the Z


 
 Onboard sound is disabled in BIOS.


----------



## phobia337

stillhart said:


> *Then it sounds like there's something wrong with your card.*  Mine has no such volume issues with the Q701.
> 
> BTW, every sound card has a headphone amp.  Sound Blaster just likes to market theirs like it's something unique, which it's not.  Clearly they're doing a good job.
> 
> If you don't need/want the little volume knob thingy on the Zx, just get the Z.  They're the same thing otherwise.


 
 Still is right, if your on-board sound is disabled (Plus drivers up to date) and the card is doing that then it is a defective card. I have the exact setup as you with the K612 pros and Sound Blaster Z. It pushes the K612s easily.


----------



## Yethal

And now for something completely different.
  
 Shouldn't the Magni review in the amp section be updated to reflect the fact that the only two cons of this amp were remedied with the release of Magni 2 and Magni 2 Uber?
  
 EDIT: Nevermind, looks like I missed the memo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I removed those cons once I found out about the Magni 2 Uber. I probably should've at least mentioned that the Magni 2 Uber has all those extra inputs/outputs.


----------



## designbykai

Hey guys,
  
 Haven't posted in here for a while as I haven't really been gaming in aaages. But I got a PS4 late last year, and my AKG K7XX just arrived.
 Have GTAV, TLOU, D3, FC4, DA:I
 PSN Id = Anigmatik if anyone wants to add me
  
 Also I have re-read some of the reviews on amps, and many many pages of the thread, but I still can't decide what surround DAC to get for the PS4 and K7XXs... The X7 sounds awesome but I can't justify spending the same as the price of the console on a dac/amp at the moment!
  
 So... Turtle Beach DSS (DH?) vs. Mixamp (which version?) vs. Recon3d (SBH?) ? Opinions?
  
 Looks like I can find a DSS on ebay for around $50. Same with some Mixamps, though more like around $100.
 I will probably get a Vmoda boompro + adapter or a modmic at some stage, though voicechat isn't hugely important to me at the moment. I guess the advantage of the mixamp is still the ability to mix game/chat audio though...
  
 I have an E17 and an Audioengine D1 I could use for stereo - I guess I can't run a surround dac like mixamp into the D1 as it only has optical + usb input and no line-in. So that means I only have the E17 for extra amping of the surround device. Hardly worth it but some extra volume if nothing else I guess...


----------



## anthonyl

phobia337 said:


> Still is right, if your on-board sound is disabled (Plus drivers up to date) and the card is doing that then it is a defective card. I have the exact setup as you with the K612 pros and Sound Blaster Z. It pushes the K612s easily.


 
 Are you able to put the volume at 100% and still get "quiet / non distorted" sound without it making your ear drums bleed? I have all sliders at 100% and the sound is what I would have expected it to be at say 40% volume.


----------



## PixelSkills

designbykai said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Haven't posted in here for a while as I haven't really been gaming in aaages. But I got a PS4 late last year, and my AKG K7XX just arrived.
> Have GTAV, TLOU, D3, FC4, DA:I
> ...




Just use your amp dac connected to ps4, it will sound tons better and imo offer better directional cues. Dh sounds bad but also takes alot of the details out.


----------



## designbykai

pixelskills said:


> Just use your amp dac connected to ps4, it will sound tons better and imo offer better directional cues. Dh sounds bad but also takes alot of the details out.


 
 Interesting you say that. I'm going to try my D1 on its own tonight. Last time I used it with my TH600 for GTAV on PS3 the positioning was insanely good. So I don't know how much better DH can be and if I can be bothered with the hassle of an extra device (and noisefloor). Though the chat mixing and mp3 player input options are nice on the mixamp..
  
 I bet most people on this thread would disagree with you though and prefer surround, that's kinda what this thread is about. I'm interested to compare the difference for myself (not just watching youtube videos with the simulated effect but actually playing competitively myself)


----------



## Stillhart

designbykai said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Haven't posted in here for a while as I haven't really been gaming in aaages. But I got a PS4 late last year, and my AKG K7XX just arrived.
> Have GTAV, TLOU, D3, FC4, DA:I
> ...


 
  
 The different surround processors all have their pros and cons.  I think the Recon sounds much better than the Mixamp 5.8, but it can't compete for convenience and game/chat balance.
  
 Lately, I've been gaming with my Recon -> Project Ember -> Q701 and it's been *really *nice.  The super powerful amp really lets me mess around with the game/chat balance without degrading the sound, unlike the Mixamp.  When I get rid of the Ember here shortly, I'm thinking I'll pick up a cheap desktop amp to use permanently with the Recon.  I'm not a fan of Schiit, but I should be able to pick up a used Magni for pretty cheap since everyone is upgrading.  Or maybe I'll grab something cheap off Massdrop the next time something suitable comes up.
  
 Anyways, my point is that I'm enjoying the Recon + desktop amp combo for console gaming.  If you can afford it and don't mind the wires, it's my recommendation right now.
  
 Oh and to clarify:  using a desktop amp specifically because for some reason the L/R channels on my PS4/Recon are swapped and I can't figure out why or how to fix it.  But running the output of the Recon to a desktop amp via RCA lets me swap the L/R channels and fix everything!  Woo!


----------



## PixelSkills

I have the astro mixamp 2013 with a magni connected to sennheiser game ones and it just sounds horrible when using dh. When i use my game one via usb audio through the mixamp in just stereo the detail in everything just pops and sounds soo good. Dh adds echo which I hate and really I cant tell any difference when it comes to directional cues. Maybe my brain just doesnt work right for it I am not sure but I can def tell when something is behind me better in stereo.


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> I have the astro mixamp 2013 with a magni connected to sennheiser game ones and it just sounds horrible when using dh. When i use my game one via usb audio through the mixamp in just stereo the detail in everything just pops and sounds soo good. Dh adds echo which I hate and really I cant tell any difference when it comes to directional cues. Maybe my brain just doesnt work right for it I am not sure but I can def tell when something is behind me better in stereo.


 
  
 You might like THX/SBX if you aren't into DH.  I find it much easier to "interpret" directional cues with THX/SBX over DH.  It seems to be a personal preference for a lot of people... like skiing vs snowboarding.  
  
 Also, just throwing this out there, some games have much better directional cues than others.  So far, in my short experience with virtual surround gaming, the best game by far has been Titanfall.  I could close my eyes and point to snipers just from the sound of the bullets whizzing by.  Of course in that game, listening for footsteps was less useful since it was so fast, but it was still pretty awesome.  Get a good "fun" pair of headphones like the X1 and Titans one block over would rattle your eyeballs in your skull.
  
 Man, I gotta play that game again... that was a really good game.


----------



## PixelSkills

What uses sbx? Recon?


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> What uses sbx? Recon?


 
  
 The newer Sound Blaster PC cards use SBX.  Many people believe it's a rebranded THX, which the Recon uses.  I've never done a back to back comparison, but SBX and THX certainly sound more alike than DH and THX.


----------



## sandrojpsantos

Since we are on the creative labs/sound blaster side, any chance with adding the sound blaster e5 to the guide? or just a detailed opinion with the guide in mind. It seems like the perfect fit (consoles/pc/mobile devices), I just wish to know if it is good


----------



## Abula

Not sure if its already posted, but seems at CES creative is showing Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition


----------



## Stillhart

Anyone else think the EL-8 is going to be a gaming option?  According to Jude, it's the airiest Audeze yet and it's more "reference" sounding than the LCD-2.  Combined with its light weight and supposed ease of driving, I'm thinking it might work.  
  
 Looking forward to trying them on Thursday.  If they sound good AND work as a gaming headphone, they could be an awesome all-in-one.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Anyone else think the EL-8 is going to be a gaming option?  According to Jude, it's the airiest Audeze yet and it's more "reference" sounding than the LCD-2.  Combined with its light weight and supposed ease of driving, I'm thinking it might work.
> 
> Looking forward to trying them on Thursday.  If they sound good AND work as a gaming headphone, they could be an awesome all-in-one.


 
  
 Nope. Never. Not gonna happen. No way. Nuh uh. Now I'm running out of things to say that start with "N." November's nordic national necktie nurturing neanderthals.
  
 It could make a great gaming headphone if it's low impedance as the portable aspect is implying. We'll know soon once you've had a chance to listen to it.


----------



## pathfindercod

Nice and those Jack-a%^'s I would have wanted the white and bigger ac adapter. I think I can still return mine to amazon and order that one. If not ill sell mine or just wned up with two :/ 
  
 Quote:


abula said:


> Not sure if its already posted, but seems at CES creative is showing Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition


----------



## conquerator2

Aren't they identical? Save for the color, cable and possibly lower [2ohm > 1ohm] headphone out impedance?


----------



## Stillhart

Man that thing is hideous.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> Man that thing is hideous.


 
 Looks kinda like some of the exotic weapons in Destiny.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Looks kinda like some of the exotic weapons in Destiny.


 
  
 Nah, it's just the X7 with a shader.


----------



## benbenkr

conquerator2 said:


> Aren't they identical? Save for the color, cable and possibly lower [2ohm > 1ohm] headphone out impedance?


 
  
 Apparently comes with an even beefier power adapter too. 100w > 144w.
  
 All for an extra $100. Hmm.


----------



## Evshrug

Bet that plugging the upgraded power supply into the regular X7 will produce the same sound in speakers... the extra power is irrelevant for headphones (unless you're talking headphones that connect to speaker terminals).


----------



## conquerator2

I bet that cable will be purchasable separately. an extra 100$ for -1ohm and 'premium' looks... Well... Nope!


----------



## designbykai

Loving the AKG K7XX for ps4 gaming so far with my Audioengine D1. Played a bunch of Farcry 4 and Dragon Age in the last day or two and they both sound gorgeous. Positioning is pretty good, though its tough to hear when things are 100% behind you (still kinda sounds like center/front), This could be more down to the DAC though, or the games audio implementation (or I just need to try some surround headphone processing alternatives).
  
 One weird thing is that the L and R sides are swapped... so I need to wear the headphones the wrong way around. Which could also be contributing to the slightly off positioning. 
 Only way I can think to fix it is getting an amp with RCA input and switching the RCA cables (as someone mentioned above). Magni second hand or Magni 2?
 I assume this is some weird issue with PS4 use of USB DACs... I might try optical input to the D1 and power the USB off AC which may be better anyway..


----------



## Stillhart

designbykai said:


> Loving the AKG K7XX for ps4 gaming so far with my Audioengine D1. Played a bunch of Farcry 4 and Dragon Age in the last day or two and they both sound gorgeous. Positioning is pretty good, though its tough to hear when things are 100% behind you (still kinda sounds like center/front), This could be more down to the DAC though, or the games audio implementation (or I just need to try some surround headphone processing alternatives).
> 
> One weird thing is that the L and R sides are swapped... so I need to wear the headphones the wrong way around. Which could also be contributing to the slightly off positioning.
> Only way I can think to fix it is getting an amp with RCA input and switching the RCA cables (as someone mentioned above). I assume this is some weird issue with PS4 use of USB DACs... I might try optical input to the D1 and power the USB off AC which may be better anyway..


 
  
 Oh man, you mean I'm not the only one?  Thanks goodness!  I'm running Optical not USB, btw, since I'm using the Recon for surround.  But it's telling that we're both seeing that problem on different output ports. 
  
 Google brought up this interesting link:  http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=34748.0
  
 Apparently, 1 - The Recon doesn't need the optical cable, it's being used as a USB DAC.  2 - This is a known issue with the PS4 and USB DAC's.  3 - Switching the Recon to PC mode might fix it.  I'm going to try tonight!  Not sure how you will be able to fix the D1, tho.


----------



## PittGatorJD

Hey guys. So I've been lurking for the past month or so trying to learn the in's and out's of this new (to me) way of listening and gaming. After reading the past 10 months or so worth of posts (yes, it took a long ass time), I decided to bite the bullet and give my wife a christmas wishlist. I ended up getting the Sennheiser HD 598s, and the X7. I'm mainly using it on my PS4 and X1. My question is 2 two-fold:
  
 1) Is this a good setup? Am I wasting the X7 on the HD 598s? I had only ever had a pair of Trittons previously, so this was a pretty big step up. However, would I get far more out of the X7 with a different set of phones? I mainly care about directional FPS gaming - anything else is gravy.
  
 2) Most of my multiplayer gaming is on the X1. Is there a chat solution for the X7 yet? I haven't been able to find one, but I thought I might have missed it. Money really isn't too much of a factor...If there's a way to get game chat through the X7, even if it isn't practical, I'd like to hear it. If there's a work around for the PS4 that's great too, but again, I mainly play multiplayer on the X1.
  
 Thanks again for everyone's help. Before breaking into this hobby (which has proven expensive...and fun!...quickly), I had no idea what games were meant to actually sound like. This really has been eye opening. Thanks again!
  
 PittGatorJD


----------



## designbykai

stillhart said:


> Oh man, you mean I'm not the only one?  Thanks goodness!  I'm running Optical not USB, btw, since I'm using the Recon for surround.  But it's telling that we're both seeing that problem on different output ports.
> 
> Google brought up this interesting link:  http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=34748.0
> 
> Apparently, 1 - The Recon doesn't need the optical cable, it's being used as a USB DAC.  2 - This is a known issue with the PS4 and USB DAC's.  3 - Switching the Recon to PC mode might fix it.  I'm going to try tonight!  Not sure how you will be able to fix the D1, tho.


 
 Weird hey... Yeah when I plugged my D1 into both optical and the usb into the PS4 to power it, it just used the USB for the output. But I didn't try powering the D1 from the wall socket and only trying the optical from ps4. I'm hoping it'll work... (though no way to select a different mode on the device like your recon, but it is usually automatic at least from a PC output)


----------



## Stillhart

designbykai said:


> Weird hey... Yeah when I plugged my D1 into both optical and the usb into the PS4 to power it, it just used the USB for the output. But I didn't try powering the D1 from the wall socket and only trying the optical from ps4. I'm hoping it'll work... (though no way to select a different mode on the device like your recon, but it is usually automatic at least from a PC output)


 
  
 Oh if you have the option to go optical with wall power, it should work that way.  Curious if it will fix it, but I suspect so since that probably does the same thing as swapping the Recon to PC mode.
  
 Now that I think about it, swapping to PC mode might lose my mic on the Recon... probably not a bad thing when I'm playing MP shooters anyhow.  Right guys?  lol


----------



## anthonyl

I have the opportunity to return the AKG K612's and get a set of the K702's as they would be easier to drive than the 612's. Would this be a wise move?
  
 I could get an amp/dac later on down the track but right now the "minister for finance" is watching my every move.


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> I have the opportunity to return the AKG K612's and get a set of the K702's as they would be easier to drive than the 612's. Would this be a wise move?
> 
> I could get an amp/dac later on down the track but right now the "minister for finance" is watching my every move.


 
  
 The problem isn't your K612.  You have an issue with your sound card.


----------



## lenroot77

anthonyl said:


> I have the opportunity to return the AKG K612's and get a set of the K702's as they would be easier to drive than the 612's. Would this be a wise move?
> 
> I could get an amp/dac later on down the track but right now the "minister for finance" is watching my every move.




Minister of finance is watching your every move... Haha im going to have to use that. I usually get home before my wife so I'm able to catch the Amazon deliveries and escort them to "my room".


----------



## anthonyl

OK..so here's whats happened in the mean time..
  
 I have removed the Sound Blaster Zx and replaced it with my old Titanium Fatal1ty sound card and found that the "clarity" of the sound is a hell of a lot better than the Zx...however the sound coming out of the headphones is still not "loud enough" even at full volume.
  
 I did have a set of the PSB M4U-1 headphones that I used with the Fatal1ty sound card and they were very very loud and great sounding too ... but due to their "small" size I had to return them as they were uncomfortable to wear for any length of time.
  
 The K612 Pro are rated at 120ohms and I think the K702 are 62ohms and therefore would be easier to get a higher volume... (i am very very new to all this and this is my understanding of how it works..please correct me if I am wrong)..
  
 Mad Lust Envies gaming headphone gaming guide also recommends the K702 and gives them a 10/10 ..so I guess I will give them a shot...
  
 Bear in mind that these are purely for gaming.
  
 Thank you for everyones help and suggestions...keep em coming.


----------



## Stillhart

It's not the headphones, friend.  I worry that you're going to be disappointed when you go to all the work to exchange them and realize that they're just as quiet.  
  
 Other folks on here with the Z and Omni have run the K612 directly from the sound card with no issues.


----------



## pathfindercod

nm


----------



## anthonyl

stillhart said:


> It's not the headphones, friend.  I worry that you're going to be disappointed when you go to all the work to exchange them and realize that they're just as quiet.
> 
> Other folks on here with the Z and Omni have run the K612 directly from the sound card with no issues.


 
 Well as I said.. I installed my old Titanium Fatal1ty sound card and while the clarity of the sound was much much better than the Zx.. the volume with the K612's was just not there...all volume sliders at 100% still gives me what I think to my ears is about 40%.
  
 As I said..with the PSB headphones which were a lower ohm i had the volume sliders at say 50% and they were very very loud.


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> Well as I said.. I installed my old Titanium Fatal1ty sound card and while the clarity of the sound was much much better than the Zx.. the volume with the K612's was just not there...all volume sliders at 100% still gives me what I think to my ears is about 40%.
> 
> As I said..with the PSB headphones which were a lower ohm i had the volume sliders at say 50% and they were very very loud.


 
  
 Then it could be the specific pair of headphones you have.  Or it could be your Windows settings.
  
 If you want to exchange them, go for it, makes no difference to me.  I'm just saying that your particular setup has been tried before without those issues so it's clearly something with your setup.  Hopefully it's just a defective set and swapping it out will do the trick.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K702 may go louder than the 612, but easier to drive... no. The 702 is one of the harder to drive headphones out there, and scales up the most out of any dynamic headphone I've heard. Those babies absolutely love quality amping.


----------



## Mad Max

And quality DACs, oh baby!  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I read your headphone.guru review of T70, nice job and thanks, man!  How much burn-in did the T70 you tried get, though?
 I noticed that my T90 was also "bass-light" as you described T70, but only for a time.  After enough use, the bass "filled out", sounding more like what goldenears/headroom graphs show.  Now it is quite "V-shaped" yet without ever disturbing the exquisite midrange.
  
 In fact, I EQ'd my T90 to have a more audibly flat FR and I found that it then sounds barely any different from my K701; I was rather surprised.  The Beyer still sounded thicker.
 Not that I mind AKG's thin "house sound", or will I ever.


----------



## kman1211

mad lust envy said:


> The K702 may go louder than the 612, but easier to drive... no. The 702 is one of the harder to drive headphones out there, and scales up the most out of any dynamic headphone I've heard. Those babies absolutely love quality amping.


 
 That is true, the K7 family scales up like crazy, even moreso than the HD 600/650 which also scale up incredibly well. My system isn't quite where I want them on my K712 but it's getting close. I think my amp is good enough, it's the dac that's holding back my system.


----------



## Evshrug

anthonyl said:


> I have the opportunity to return the AKG K612's and get a set of the K702's as they would be easier to drive than the 612's. Would this be a wise move?
> 
> I could get an amp/dac later on down the track but right now the "minister for finance" is watching my every move.




Anthony,
I have had a Q701, right now I have a K712 and a K612. I also had a sb Z, though now I own an Omni and an X7. The Omni has about the same power as the SB Zx you have, I had to have the Q701/K712 (which are 62 ohms) at about 24% windows volume setting, the K612 is like 28%, any higher than that is too high and hurts my ears.

I've read about other people who also had volume issues. It's in the Z/Zx/ZxR thread, and it's happened to other cards too. I'd open a tech support ticket with Creative and ask for help (they have heard of this issue before and can give you the best resolution), but in the meanwhile make sure you have the latest drivers AND firmware for the sound card. It's been a year since I read about that issue so I forget exactly what fixed it, but I personally had a problem with my mic and I thought "No way, I've reinstalled the drivers from the web, that should cover everything, this HAS to be an issue with the soundcard's [Omni] hardware." I eventually looked to try doing a firmware update, that ended up being newer than what was in the Omni even though I'd been running the typical updates, AND it fixed my issue. Hopefully it'll do the same for you.

My K612 sounds great from my external version of the Z, I'd hate for you to miss out or have a string of disappointments because you got stuck believing an incorrect first diagnosis.

Use the tech support, try updating the firmware from Creative's website, use the Force, Luke!


----------



## Evshrug

mad max said:


> And quality DACs, oh baby!  :basshead:
> 
> I read your headphone.guru review of T70, nice job and thanks, man!  How much burn-in did the T70 you tried get, though?
> I noticed that my T90 was also "bass-light" as you described T70, but only for a time.  After enough use, the bass "filled out", sounding more like what goldenears/headroom graphs show.  Now it is quite "V-shaped" yet without ever disturbing the exquisite midrange.
> ...



Beyerdynamic DT880 had clean but distinctly recessed mids, combined with the treble spike the newer Beyer sounded distinctly thin and even tinny. Tried a few amps and tubes, after 28 days I ended up returning them. The DT880 had more bass extension than my stock Q701, the Q701 definitely sounded "air-ier" and had easily more soundstage, but the more forward Mids of the AKG made it more balanced and "present/dense" (which I think you're describing as "thicker").

'Course, I haven't heard the T90 and that could be a whole different beast. The Sennheiser HD700 is my newest headphone and sometimes startles me because it's definitely the "thickest" and most in-my-face headphone I have heard in awhile.

Edit: and why the heck am I seeing a Stethoscope advertised on a headphone forum?! I've never searched the web for clinical tools in my life! AFAIR...


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Edit: and *why the heck am I seeing a Stethoscope advertised on a headphone forum?*! I've never searched the web for clinical tools in my life! AFAIR...


 
  
 Because you're not using an ad blocker.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> Beyerdynamic DT880 had clean but distinctly recessed mids, combined with the treble spike the newer Beyer sounded distinctly thin and even tinny. Tried a few amps and tubes, after 28 days I ended up returning them. The DT880 had more bass extension than my stock Q701, the Q701 definitely sounded "air-ier" and had easily more soundstage, but the more forward Mids of the AKG made it more balanced and "present/dense" (which I think you're describing as "thicker").
> 
> 'Course, I haven't heard the T90 and that could be a whole different beast. The Sennheiser HD700 is my newest headphone and sometimes startles me because it's definitely the "thickest" and most in-my-face headphone I have heard in awhile.
> 
> Edit: and why the heck am I seeing a Stethoscope advertised on a headphone forum?! I've never searched the web for clinical tools in my life! AFAIR...


 
 I find Beyers are often a bit thin in their mids. Even my DT 150 which thankfully doesn't have fatiguing treble or a nasty treble spike and is a bit fuller in the mids than the DT 880 doesn't sound as thick in the mids as the K712(this headphone sounds quite thick/dense on my system, the more I improve my system the denser and thicker they seem to sound) and the slightly thicker HD 600. The HD 700 was definitely a dense sounding headphone when I heard it, even the HD 800 can sound quite thick in the mids on the right system.


----------



## bigbeard

Hi all...i have a lot of questions, and need your opinions and advice.
  
 I currently use my PC and PS4 for gaming, and also use my PC for music/movies.
  
 My current setup is a SoundBlaster Z in my PC which bypasses sound to my Bifrost Uber and Asgard 2. This setup works great when listening to music and movies, using my Beyer Dynamic DT990 Premium. 
  
 However, i find gaming lacking - the sound quality is awesome, but the feeling of immersion through surround sound and positional accuracy is not so great. 
  
 I have been trying to figure out what is the best way to overcome this problem. 
  
 Would it be better to plug my headphones into my sound card instead of my DAC, to obtain positional audio and surround sound (It will be annoying constantly switching, but i can live with it)?
  
 From your experience, would the sacrifice in sound quality make up for the surround immersion and position effects?
 The SB Z does not have a licence for Dolby, but it does use SBX Pro Studio - is this fairly comparable to Dolby for surround virtualization? 
  
 Now for the PS4...that too is hooked up to my DAC, using the same headphones with it. What is the best way to obtain surround sound on here? Would connecting my PS4 to my sound card via optical, then allowing my sound card to process virtual surround, work (of course, with my headphones plugged into the sound card instead of DAC)? Would my sound card be able to apply virtual surround for my PS4 if the signal is simply coming from an external optical source (PS4), or does that only work if the sound is being produced in the PC environment? The only issue for this is that each time i want to play my PS4, i would also have to have my PC on.
  
 I know they sell things like the Astro MixAmp...that would at least allow me to get virtual sound on my PS4 without needing my PC, but would it be useless for surround on my PC because SB Z has no Dolby licence? I don't believe it will be a problem since the sound will simply output from my PC and the MixAmp will apply the effects. Correct me if i am wrong. What differences would i expect from using my SB Z vs the MixAmp?
  
  
 I want to hear your advice, opinions, and suggestions, on how to improve this situation. 
  
 On a side note, would i obtain a better experience if i watch bluray movies with simulated surround from my sound card, or plain stereo from my DAC?
  
 I just wish that somehow my PC could send the processed virtual effects to my DAC, which would then just send the sound to my ears. It would be the easiest way to solve these problems, without sacrificing sound quality (i really love my DAC).
  
 Thanks all, sorry for the long read, and i really hope some of you can help me.
  
 I will also post this in another thread that deals with PC gaming - don't get mad if you see my post again.


----------



## anthonyl

evshrug said:


> Anthony,
> I have had a Q701, right now I have a K712 and a K612. I also had a sb Z, though now I own an Omni and an X7. The Omni has about the same power as the SB Zx you have, I had to have the Q701/K712 (which are 62 ohms) at about 24% windows volume setting, the K612 is like 28%, any higher than that is too high and hurts my ears.
> 
> I've read about other people who also had volume issues. It's in the Z/Zx/ZxR thread, and it's happened to other cards too. I'd open a tech support ticket with Creative and ask for help (they have heard of this issue before and can give you the best resolution), but in the meanwhile make sure you have the latest drivers AND firmware for the sound card. It's been a year since I read about that issue so I forget exactly what fixed it, but I personally had a problem with my mic and I thought "No way, I've reinstalled the drivers from the web, that should cover everything, this HAS to be an issue with the soundcard's [Omni] hardware." I eventually looked to try doing a firmware update, that ended up being newer than what was in the Omni even though I'd been running the typical updates, AND it fixed my issue. Hopefully it'll do the same for you.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the advise... I have however taken the Zx back to the shop and got a full refund. I have then purchased a "cheap" headphone amp the PRESONUS HP4 headphone amp.
  
 I have kept the K612's and now with the amp I am getting much better volume.
  
 I am sure that with an even better spec amp it will sound even better. I just bought the above mentioned amp just to see if the headphones could sound better with an amp and they certainly do!
  
 I have the opportunity to grab an Matrix M-Stage Headphone Amp (HPA1), Silver, upgraded with Burr Brown OPA627AP Class-A bias mod for a good price...just not sure if it is any better than the amp I mentioned earlier.
  
 I am slowly getting there...


----------



## caliguru

Greetings all,
 Sorry if this has been posted but this thread has over 1800 pages with comments!. The question that I have is gaming with the PS4 and sound quality. I want to know what is the best setup currently. I know the PS4 has some issues with the microphones. I am trying to get the best surround system on the PS4 while still being able to use the microphone to game online.
  
 My current list are in no particular order
*Headphone: *
 Philips Fidelio X1or X2
 Beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium 32 ohm
 K712 Pro - 62 Omh (How can i drive the omh with these to get the complete sound details)
  
*Astro Mixamp PS4*
 Mixamp 2013 edition
 Mixamp 5.8 wireless (i read another thread in this forums where this can be used for amp. will these have the same quality as using the 2013 astro mixamp verison?)
  
*DAC/AMP (*will this work with PS4) does anyone here have this connected along mixamp or other amp for the PS4?
 SChit Magni
 Any suggestion?
  
*Detachable Microphone:*
 Antlion Modmic
 V-moda BoomPro
  
 I want to get the feedback as this will be only be used for PS4. I am not interested for music listening/video.
  
 I also have a Yamaha RX V677 that I bought last year. Does this help in getting any type of headgaming set for my PS4?
  
 Thanks for the great information  Mad Lust Envy. In addition, there are several members in this community which have helped me get more information on which items to buy and make a good sounding experience in the PS4.
  
 EDIT i forgot to mention that I have currently using the Hypercloud Gaming headset for the PS4 which is great but sound is above average.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Anthony,
> I have had a Q701, right now I have a K712 and a K612. I also had a sb Z, though now I own an Omni and an X7. The Omni has about the same power as the SB Zx you have, I had to have the Q701/K712 (which are 62 ohms) at about 24% windows volume setting, the K612 is like 28%, any higher than that is too high and hurts my ears.
> 
> I've read about other people who also had volume issues. It's in the Z/Zx/ZxR thread, and it's happened to other cards too. I'd open a tech support ticket with Creative and ask for help (they have heard of this issue before and can give you the best resolution), but in the meanwhile make sure you have the latest drivers AND firmware for the sound card. It's been a year since I read about that issue so I forget exactly what fixed it, but I personally had a problem with my mic and I thought "No way, I've reinstalled the drivers from the web, that should cover everything, this HAS to be an issue with the soundcard's [Omni] hardware." I eventually looked to try doing a firmware update, that ended up being newer than what was in the Omni even though I'd been running the typical updates, AND it fixed my issue. Hopefully it'll do the same for you.
> ...




Ok this makes me wonder too.

I have the SB Z and Im using the K7XX. I have the volume set to 100% in windows and I actually just change the volume in the app that im using or game.In BF4, I have to turn it down to 70% or so. It does get louder and sounds very loud at 100%.

Now on youtube, it seems it sounds louder and usually keep it low in the 30-40%.

In movies however, i have the VLC at 100% and Windows is still at 100%. It sounds good, nice , and loud but not as loud as BF4 or Youtube. I was watching The Fury .mkv file, and I wonder if maybe its just the quality of the file? Would I have a good sound card or not?

I want to say Im ok because when I plug in my M50, icant go above 40% or my ears will blow up lol.

I might just be paranoid but doesnt hurt to ask

Edit: also forgot to add, spotify.....it sounds loud, at 100% but I expected it to sound louder.

Whenever I think 100% volume, Id imagine, damaging ears loud. Especially since you EV, have the volume between 24-28% with both the akg, especially with the k712, which is similar too the k7xx....

So i dont know...


----------



## Stillhart

bigbeard said:


> Hi all...i have a lot of questions, and need your opinions and advice.
> 
> I currently use my PC and PS4 for gaming, and also use my PC for music/movies.
> 
> ...


 
 Okay a lot to process here, so I'm just going to throw out some ideas:
  
 1 - If you are running the output of your Z to your Bifrost using the optical cable, you CAN in fact get virtual surround using the good DAC.  I do the same thing, but with a different DAC.  
  
 2 - Make sure your firmware and drivers are updated on the Z otherwise you cannot pass the processed signal via optical.
  
 3 - This is a REALLY good setup for PC gaming.  If you're not getting good surround cues, you may have it setup wrong (see above about the drivers and such).  Or maybe SBX just isn't for you.  Have you tried any of the comparison videos to see if you prefer DH?
  
 4 - Regarding the PS4, there's no way to pass the signal from the PS4 to the Z in order to have the Z process the surround.  We went over this a few pages back.
  
 5 - You CAN run the PS4 through your DAC and amp to get good SQ but at the expense of virtual surround.
  
 6 - If you get something like the Mixamp for your PS4, you can run it through your Asgard, but not your Bifrost.  Getting something like the Schiit SYS will let you run both into your Asgard and you can switch sources at the press of a button.
  
 7 - Regarding movies and immersion, it's easy enough to try it both ways and see which you like better.  It's one check mark in the Z's control panel to turn surround on and off.  Since you should be running it through your DAC anyhow, this will allow you to test stereo vs surround.
  
 Sounds like you're on the right track.  You've got a really nice setup and you're very close to having everything working well.  Hope this helps!


----------



## Stillhart

anthonyl said:


> Thanks for the advise... I have however taken the Zx back to the shop and got a full refund. I have then purchased a "cheap" headphone amp the PRESONUS HP4 headphone amp.
> 
> I have kept the K612's and now with the amp I am getting much better volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure about the amp you bought; I've never heard of it.  But I have owned the M-stage and it's a good pairing with the AKG's.  @Change is Good has also had this amp (I believe he's had it at the same time as the AKG) and I'm sure he can add his thoughts.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I laugh when I see people trying to find a headphone with AD700 soundstage with more bass and richness. They clearly do not understand how sound works off headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

The M-Stage was my favorite amp to use with all the AKGs I've owned in the past (Q701, K702 AE, K712, K612). The small bit of extra air and separation was always an added welcome. Reason I sold it was because I had the Asgard 2, which provided a bit more kick down low, at the expense of a smaller soundstage.

I actually miss my old M-Stage.


----------



## Mad Max

evshrug said:


> Beyerdynamic DT880 had clean but distinctly recessed mids, combined with the treble spike the newer Beyer sounded distinctly thin and even tinny. Tried a few amps and tubes, after 28 days I ended up returning them. The DT880 had more bass extension than my stock Q701, the Q701 definitely sounded "air-ier" and had easily more soundstage, but the more forward Mids of the AKG made it more balanced and "present/dense" (which I think you're describing as "thicker").
> 
> 'Course, I haven't heard the T90 and that could be a whole different beast. The Sennheiser HD700 is my newest headphone and sometimes startles me because it's definitely the "thickest" and most in-my-face headphone I have heard in awhile.
> ...


 
  
 Presence of the midrange has nothing to do with how "thick" a headphone sounds, but the mid-/upperbass does contribute.  Bass alone does not define how "thick" a headphone's sound is in my experience.  Equalizers are very educational towards these things and much, much more.  Yet, I still don't know why AKGs tend to sound thinner.
 But ultimately, I have almost no interest in why, some of them rule like the K701 and K601 families, enough said.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 T90 is another beast apart from the usual DT770/880/990 Beyers.  I take it you are talking about DT880-250?  The 600-ohm version doesn't sound all that different from my K701, but I would describe the 250 ohm version just as you have.  The 600-ohm version sounds like a 701 with a little bit of bass and treble boost and less precise soundstaging.
 I felt Q701 to be an inferior K701 when I tried it.


----------



## PittGatorJD

pittgatorjd said:


> Hey guys. So I've been lurking for the past month or so trying to learn the in's and out's of this new (to me) way of listening and gaming. After reading the past 10 months or so worth of posts (yes, it took a long ass time), I decided to bite the bullet and give my wife a christmas wishlist. I ended up getting the Sennheiser HD 598s, and the X7. I'm mainly using it on my PS4 and X1. My question is 2 two-fold:
> 
> 1) Is this a good setup? Am I wasting the X7 on the HD 598s? I had only ever had a pair of Trittons previously, so this was a pretty big step up. However, would I get far more out of the X7 with a different set of phones? I mainly care about directional FPS gaming - anything else is gravy.
> 
> ...




Shameless bump. Is this the right forum for this type of question?

Thanks again.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Seems there is a workaround for chatting with the X7:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/255#post_11198272


----------



## lenroot77

fegefeuer said:


> Seems there is a workaround for chatting with the X7:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/255#post_11198272




I thought this is what everyone did? I've been doing this for almost 3 months now. I would have made note of this earlier had I known.


----------



## wilflare

I sold (all) my Astro Mixamp Pro
 hope a better solution comes up
  
 shall save for a X7 in the meanwhile
  
 there needs to be updated comfy couch option :/ (e.g. updated 5.8)


----------



## PittGatorJD

fegefeuer said:


> Seems there is a workaround for chatting with the X7:
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/255#post_11198272




I read that. Does anyone know of a workaround for the Xbox one? That's what I'm more concerned with. 

Thanks.


----------



## cdsa35000

bigbeard said:


> ...
> However, i find gaming lacking - the sound quality is awesome, but the feeling of immersion through surround sound and positional accuracy is not so great. ...



In addition to Stillhart's reply.





stillhart said:


> 1 - If you are running the output of your Z to your Bifrost using the optical cable, you CAN in fact get virtual surround using the good DAC. I do the same thing, but with a different DAC.



You really never test that out by just enabling SBX surround to DAC or just stick the headphone into SBZ directly to hear any differences?
What is your interpretation of immersive virtual surround? The reference should be with real 5.1./7.1 HT speakersetup.
To me SBX sounds the closest to the real speakers with the cons of inherent headphone surround artifacts and lack of real good Front/Back sound positioning.
Its possible that DH's added reverberations gives you the immersion you're looking for.
Go to this thread for comparation video's and info's:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/748785/dolby-home-threater-v4-7-1-vs-sbx-pro-5-1
---
Review/test your setup/configuration/settings again, what sounds best to you is the best config.
1) Set at Windows Sound panel: SBZ speaker config to *5.1 Surround full ranges* and SBZ advanced tab bit/samplerate to *24 bits, 48000 Hz*.
2) Set at SBZ software suite panel: Speakers/Headphones Configuration to *Headphones*.
3) Enable only SBX Pro Studio Surround and adjust the Surround slider to what sounds best, mostly 10%-60% is "best" depending on the 5.1 game/recording SQ.
To much surround processing will make the SQ sounds like from FM radio to AM SQ.
4) Config any in game's audio output to *5.1 speakers*.
---
You can try these setups, if by analog amping directly from SBZ card's outputs can give better, smoother, immersiver "analog" blended sound.
5) Skip the Uber DAC, SBZ optical passing can give digital jitter errors resulting harsher (less immersive) "digital" sound. 
6) Set Asgard2 to High Gain, low is meant for high-sensitive IEM.
7) Connect with a 3.5mm jack -RCA cable from SBZ Headphone or SBZ Line-out 1 (F L/R) to Asgard2.
8) Test/swap between the SBZ headphone/Line-out1 outputs to Asgard2, if the Line-out is passing the SBX hp surround effects too.
Test the Line-ots1 by setting SBX surround enabled to 100% and switch SBZ Speakers/Headphones Configuration between Headphone and 5.1 speakers.
If this Line-out1 has the same effects as the Headphone-out, then use Line-out1 as the proper RCA main output to Asgard2.
---
Virtual Surround headphone sounds "best" only with 5.1/7.1 surround coded game/movie/music.
If you talk about bluray/dvd movies in PC bluray cdplayer or any 5.1 mp4/mkv/avi, then you'll need the PC mediaplayer have the correct DolbyDigital5.1/DTS5.1 software decoder into 5.1 RAW PC audiostream.
AC3filter is able to do that.
Download free mediaplayers and codecs from:
http://www.free-codecs.com/
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/K_Lite_Mega_Codec_Pack.htm
http://www.free-codecs.com/download/AC3_Filter.htm
---
If using ext. standalone blurayplayer or PS4, the only way to get Virtual Surround HP is using mixamp/turtle DSS/recon3D usb with Dobly optical input/decoder or to real surround receivers with dolbyheadphone/silent cinema etc..


----------



## bigbeard

stillhart said:


> Okay a lot to process here, so I'm just going to throw out some ideas:
> 
> 1 - If you are running the output of your Z to your Bifrost using the optical cable, you CAN in fact get virtual surround using the good DAC.  I do the same thing, but with a different DAC.
> 
> ...


 
 I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond. Thank You for the responses.
  
 I was able to pass the sound cards DSP to my DAC...for others who want to know - instead of using spdif out as your default, you must retain your SBz/speakers as your default playback device in the windows panel. Setting spdif as default will not allow any sound to be processed. Then, in recording tab, select "what you hear," press configure, and check "listen," while choosing spdif out in the dropdown menu in that same tab. Games sound amazing now BTW. Thanks a bunch.
  
  
 Now...for the PS4. So optical out from PS4 to SBz optical in to SBz optical out to my DAC/Amp is a no go for virtual surround?
  
 What would be the best option for the PS4 then...something like the X7? It would be nice having one, as i can hook it up to my TV or bring it into my bedroom at night...it has really nice specs.
  
 What would be the next best option to the X7 for audio quality and sound virtualization? I hope there is one, because i'm impulsing to buy a X7.


----------



## Stillhart

pittgatorjd said:


> Hey guys. So I've been lurking for the past month or so trying to learn the in's and out's of this new (to me) way of listening and gaming. After reading the past 10 months or so worth of posts (yes, it took a long ass time), I decided to bite the bullet and give my wife a christmas wishlist. I ended up getting the Sennheiser HD 598s, and the X7. I'm mainly using it on my PS4 and X1. My question is 2 two-fold:
> 
> 1) Is this a good setup? Am I wasting the X7 on the HD 598s? I had only ever had a pair of Trittons previously, so this was a pretty big step up. However, would I get far more out of the X7 with a different set of phones? I mainly care about directional FPS gaming - anything else is gravy.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Well, I'm personally not sold on the X7 unless you have a use for all the connectivity.  Given that chat isn't working with consoles right now, if you're not sure you need it, you probably don't.  I'd suggest getting a Mixamp or Recon3D.
  
 The 598's are a good gaming can, from everything I've heard. I'm sure you'll be happy with them with any of the DSP's (X7, Mixamp, Recon, etc).


----------



## Stillhart

bigbeard said:


> I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond. Thank You for the responses.
> 
> I was able to pass the sound cards DSP to my DAC...for others who want to know - instead of using spdif out as your default, you must retain your SBz/speakers as your default playback device in the windows panel. Setting spdif as default will not allow any sound to be processed. Then, in recording tab, select "what you hear," press configure, and check "listen," while choosing spdif out in the dropdown menu in that same tab. Games sound amazing now BTW. Thanks a bunch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You shouldn't need to use "What You Hear".  I suspect your firmware needs an update.  I couldn't get mine working until I updated mine.  I only mention because I feel that WYH doesn't sound as good as doing it the right way.
  
 Again, I'm not sold on the X7.  But you have a nice setup on the PC and you might be spoiled for good sound already.  Given that, you'd probably appreciate the better DAC and Amp in the X7 over the other options.
  
 After that, I don't know that there's a consensus on which has the best SQ.  @Evshrug has tried them all so he'd be a good person to ask.


----------



## bigbeard

stillhart said:


> You shouldn't need to use "What You Hear".  I suspect your firmware needs an update.  I couldn't get mine working until I updated mine.  I only mention because I feel that WYH doesn't sound as good as doing it the right way.
> 
> Again, I'm not sold on the X7.  But you have a nice setup on the PC and you might be spoiled for good sound already.  Given that, you'd probably appreciate the better DAC and Amp in the X7 over the other options.
> 
> After that, I don't know that there's a consensus on which has the best SQ.  @Evshrug has tried them all so he'd be a good person to ask.


 
 I cannot found any firmware upgrades for my SBz...only driver updates. Would you happen to know where i can get them?
  
 Also, do you agree with the poster cdsa saying that it is best to set the windows config as full range speakers when using virtual sound over headphones?


----------



## Stillhart

bigbeard said:


> I cannot found any firmware upgrades for my SBz...only driver updates. Would you happen to know where i can get them?
> 
> Also, do you agree with the poster cdsa saying that it is best to set the windows config as full range speakers when using virtual sound over headphones?


 
  
 Nope, I have an Omni so maybe it works a little differently with the firmware.  *shrug*
  
 As to the other guy's post, my eyes glazed over after one sentence.  You're on your own there.  But for questions about setting your PC up for gaming, you should really hit the Nameless thread that's linked at the beginning of the guide.  The folks in there are very knowledgeable on it.


----------



## Sam21

the X-fi HD is better than the omni...it has the AK4396 DAC chip similar to Modi 2's DAC chip....for external PC use and SBX surround the X-fi HD is the best option out there, unless you get a digital out from omni/x-fi 5.1 to a good DAC.
  
 I already have the Xonar U7/U3 and looking to buy the X-fi HD.


----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> the X-fi HD is better than the omni...it has the AK4396 DAC chip similar to Modi 2's DAC chip....for external PC use and SBX surround the X-fi HD is the best option out there, unless you get a digital out from omni/x-fi 5.1 to a good DAC.
> 
> I already have the Xonar U7/U3 and looking to buy the X-fi HD.



There was something about the X-Fi HD that didn't meet MY needs... Might've been Mac compatibility. However, for external PC/Mac/Console use and SBX surround, the X7 is the best out there 

The X-Fi HD, however is also much less expensive, so if you only need something for Windows, it's a comparable option to the Omni (same class). An interesting option to consider, to be sure!


----------



## Sam21

oh, yes, besides X7 I meant...


----------



## salbando

pittgatorjd said:


> I read that. Does anyone know of a workaround for the Xbox one? That's what I'm more concerned with.
> 
> Thanks.


 
 I use the X7 with my Xbox one and I am able to use Xbox live chat function on there. I have the Xbox one headset adapter that I plug a headset y adapter into. I take the headphone out of the y adapter going into the line in on the X7. I then plug my microphone into the microphone jack on the y adapter.
  
 Also note though that I had to replace my Xbox one headset adapter twice already because my first one failed with 2 months of use (microphone input was highly distorted and the party members couldn't understand me) and my second one after about about 2 months of use caused everyone talking in party chat to have a severe echo unless I muted myself. So I am on my third Xbox one headset adapter and it is working flawless again.


----------



## John_M

caliguru said:


> Greetings all,
> Sorry if this has been posted but this thread has over 1800 pages with comments!. The question that I have is gaming with the PS4 and sound quality. I want to know what is the best setup currently. I know the PS4 has some issues with the microphones. I am trying to get the best surround system on the PS4 while still being able to use the microphone to game online.
> 
> My current list are in no particular order
> ...


 

 Don't use the Mixamp or a DAC/ amp. Use the HDMI input into your RX V677 setting your PS4 to output LPCM (it will automatically output 7.1 surround sound, as it will detect that the receiver is capable of this). The HDMI passthrough shouldn't create lag judging by what other people with Yamaha receivers say (but be on the lookout in case it does...)
  
 As for headphones, probably the AKGs (?)
  
 Give this and try and say what you think - should be noticeably better than a Mixamp setup.


----------



## Evshrug

salbando said:


> I use the X7 with my Xbox one and I am able to use Xbox live chat function on there. I have the Xbox one headset adapter that I plug a headset y adapter into. I take the headphone out of the y adapter going into the line in on the X7. I then plug my microphone into the microphone jack on the y adapter.
> 
> Also note though that I had to replace my Xbox one headset adapter twice already because my first one failed with 2 months of use (microphone input was highly distorted and the party members couldn't understand me) and my second one after about about 2 months of use caused everyone talking in party chat to have a severe echo unless I muted myself. So I am on my third Xbox one headset adapter and it is working flawless again.



I had just theorized this would be one possible option, thanks for confirming! You should re-post this in my suggestions thread (in my signature), people there are looking for XBO + X7 hookup solutions (this thread is about the headphones themselves, it'll be easier for others to see this tip in my thread).

I didn't know if this would actually work, so again, thanks for confirming! Too bad about the adapter's reliability though :/





john_m said:


> Don't use the Mixamp or a DAC/ amp. Use the HDMI input into your RX V677 setting your PS4 to output LPCM (it will automatically output 7.1 surround sound, as it will detect that the receiver is capable of this). The HDMI passthrough shouldn't create lag judging by what other people with Yamaha receivers say (but be on the lookout in case it does...)
> 
> As for headphones, probably the AKGs (?)
> 
> Give this and try and say what you think - should be noticeably better than a Mixamp setup.




I used a similar setup with my lower end V3xx series Yamaha receiver, the DAC and amo result in a nice, sharper in a good way sound. I don't recall noticable lag. The Yamaha's built-in "Silent Cinema" headphone surround processing is alright, you have to get a bit used to the way it makes crossover and very minute left-right ear delay to create the effect of being closer to one ear than the other, but it works and is like DH lite. SBX is better with less reverb and the crossover is more natural, but Silent Cinema is decent.

One of the nice things about AKG headphones (and several other brands, and planar magnetic type headphones), they are resistant to distortion due to an output Jack (such as a headphone Jack on a Yamaha receiver) having high output impedance.


----------



## crun

I was about to buy HD598 as replacement for my broken HD555, but after some thinking it seems like a waste. I would like to get my HD555 fixed instead.
  
 Can I replace my headband in HD555 using the one from HD595, HD558 or HD598?


----------



## John_M

evshrug said:


> I used a similar setup with my lower end V3xx series Yamaha receiver, the DAC and amo result in a nice, sharper in a good way sound. I don't recall noticable lag. The Yamaha's built-in "Silent Cinema" headphone surround processing is alright, you have to get a bit used to the way it makes crossover and very minute left-right ear delay to create the effect of being closer to one ear than the other, but it works and is like DH lite. SBX is better with less reverb and the crossover is more natural, but Silent Cinema is decent.


 
  
 I've never actually used Silent Cinema myself but had heard good reviews of it... maybe I overstated how good it would be.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I had just theorized this would be one possible option, thanks for confirming! You should re-post this in my suggestions thread (in my signature), people there are looking for XBO + X7 hookup solutions (this thread is about the headphones themselves, it'll be easier for others to see this tip in my thread).


 
 Sorry but that is a massive mess of cables and is basically turning your wireless controller into a wired controller.  I'd never use that solution; it's not worth it to me.


----------



## salbando

evshrug said:


> I had just theorized this would be one possible option, thanks for confirming! You should re-post this in my suggestions thread (in my signature), people there are looking for XBO + X7 hookup solutions (this thread is about the headphones themselves, it'll be easier for others to see this tip in my thread).


 
 I will post this in your suggestion thread thank you and keep this back on topic.


----------



## conquerator2

Do people really mind cable clutter that much?
 I kinda like it, and definitely prefer it to wireless.
 Guess I live in the past, still liking my cables


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Do people really mind cable clutter that much?
> I kinda like it, and definitely prefer it to wireless.
> Guess I live in the past, still liking my cables


 
  
 I don't mind cables, I mind cable clutter.  Especially in my living room where I have a 2-year-old running around.  I sit a good 3-4m+ from my 70" TV so it's not really an option to have all those cables running around.
  
 Now in my "man cave", where I sit like 2m from my TV and my little one isn't allowed to play, I don't mind having a cable or two running across the floor.  But I still clean it up after every play; the one time I leave it out is the time my son will run through there and trip on the cable and pull my PS4 off the shelf.
  
 Don't worry, he's worth it.  :-D


----------



## Styles

salbando said:


> I use the X7 with my Xbox one and I am able to use Xbox live chat function on there. I have the Xbox one headset adapter that I plug a headset y adapter into. I take the headphone out of the y adapter going into the line in on the X7. I then plug my microphone into the microphone jack on the y adapter.
> 
> Also note though that I had to replace my Xbox one headset adapter twice already because my first one failed with 2 months of use (microphone input was highly distorted and the party members couldn't understand me) and my second one after about about 2 months of use caused everyone talking in party chat to have a severe echo unless I muted myself. So I am on my third Xbox one headset adapter and it is working flawless again.


 
 With this setup, how well can you mix the chat and game volume?

  
 I'm a long time Xbox gamer and have used everything from standard Triton - Astro - Turtle Beach setups way back before I got turned onto Head-Fi. Now for the last 5 years I've been running a custom setup and it was easy with the Xbox 360. Now with the XB1 on day one I modded the chat headset that came with it to keep using my custom setup of:
 Astro Mixap
 Custom Xbox chat pad with 2.5 plug into Astro
 Schiit Asgard

 Senn HD650
 Modmic
  
 The chat volume has always been an issue since the XB1 came out. In order to get the chat volume working at a good mixed volume I would go into the game menu for CoD Ghosts and turn the master volume down for the game to allow me to mix the chat/game knob together on the Astro so the game sound wasn’t too loud.  Unfortunately not all games have a master game volume setting built in. Right before Destiny came out my old Astro mixamp died. I just used a standard Xbox One chat pad with Y splitter and had stereo sound for a couple months.  The chat and game volume were perfect and it was easy to balance. For xmas my wife bought me a new Astro Mixamp Pro…. It sucks, well at least the chat part of it. I know all the setup tricks as laid out by Astro in how to make it work but my chat/game knob is inbetween the 3 and 4 o’clock range which almost turns the game sound off completely. I’ve tested multiple amps, XB1 Chat pads and consoles. All the same result.
  

 A little background, I worked on the team that designed the Xbox One (all mechanical engineering - console, no software) so I fully understand the ins and outs of whats going on. Turtle Beach cut a deal with MS to get the chat signal out of the console via USB, that’s why they have a truly wireless system. Not what I want as I love my wired setup – I play at my desk. So the chat audio comes out of the controller and can only be turned up so high while turning the chat on the chat pad to full chat.

  

 Tomorrow I will receive a Rolls MX22 mini mixer to test out. Setup will be:

 Optical out of XB1 to Astro

 Game sound - 3.5 Headphone jack on Astro out to 3.5 line in on Rolls MX22

 Xbox One standard chat pad with Y splitter

 Chat audio out of chat pad to RCA line in on Rolls MX22

 Modmic into Y splitter on chat pad

 RCA out of Rolls MX22 into line in on Schiit Asgard running Senn HD650

  

 Using the Rolls I can fine tune the chat and game mix. The next step will be to get rid of the Astro and find a nice Dolby Headphone amp/component as that all the Astro is being used for is the game audio.

  

 I’ve been off this form for a long time but its time to get back in with the new consoles out! Let me know what you guys think!


----------



## Change is Good

Well, it was hard letting them go. Just sold my HP200...  
  
 I actually a bit torn, but I probably won't be away from the SoundMAGIC family for too long. I'll be looking into the HP150 to maybe be my portable/travel set of cans. Based on what I remember about the HP100, I should be very happy should I decide to go that route.


----------



## High Fidelity

styles said:


> With this setup, how well can you mix the chat and game volume?
> 
> 
> I'm a long time Xbox gamer and have used everything from standard Triton - Astro - Turtle Beach setups way back before I got turned onto Head-Fi. Now for the last 5 years I've been running a custom setup and it was easy with the Xbox 360. Now with the XB1 on day one I modded the chat headset that came with it to keep using my custom setup of:
> ...


 
  
 Like you I am disappointed in the Xbox One's ability to work well with the Mixamp's game/chat balance. I too have the knob at 3-4 o'clock so that I can hear chat. Any less than that results in the game volume overpowering chat. Whenever I have gone back and played COD on the Xbox 360 I am amazed how much better the Mixamp sounds. I leave the knob at 12 o'clock and game and chat are well balanced. Not only balanced, but game sound was better, more detailed. Sound whoring was easier for me on the 360. 
  
 I also modded my MS headset right way. I eventually bought the MS chat adapter, which isn't that great. I'm on my second one since the 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter cable failed on the first. I didn't realize it was the cable until after I bought the second adapter. 
  
 What Mixamp did you have before the one you have now? I had the 2011 version, but replaced it with the 2014 version a couple of months ago. Chat stopped working so I though that yet another Astro controller cable had failed. It turns out it wasn't the controller cable, but rather the 2.5mm to 3.5mm chat adapter cable. My 2011 Mixamp's optical port door had broken off as well several months prior. I had to tape the optical cable to the Mixamp to secure it. I didn't necessarily need to replace it, but with the tape job as well as the fact that I kept having to replace both the controller cable and y-apter, I decided to buy the 2014 Mixamp. I like the cabling better, but I prefer the sound of the 2011 Mixamp. Not a big fan of the EQ settings. 
  
 My Schiit Magni 2 Uber arrives tomorrow. My setup will be Xbox One → Mixamp 2014 → Schitt Magni 2 Uber → AKG K7XX w/ modmic.


----------



## Evshrug

styles said:


> With this setup [X7 wired to Xbox One controller], how well can you mix the chat and game volume?
> 
> 
> ...
> ...




First point, the X7 has a really nice mixer and should allow very easy chat/game audio balance even for games that don't have a game-volume setting. In your setup, the X7 could stand in for the Rolls (mixer), Mixamp (surround DSP and DAC), and Asgard (amp), as well as a bunch of extra features and connectivity if you have other sources nearby (like PC or smart device), but you'd still need your chat pad and ModMic.

The Rolls thingie you mentioned ought to be a competent alternative as a standalone component.

That chat pad sounds like it could be a serious contender for a solution, is it possible to just plug a mic into the chat adapter and then the Xbox pushes all audio to "speakers," like you could manually set the Xbox 360 to do? To do chat mixing with the X7 or a component like the Rolls device you mentioned, you would need a separate line for chat audio like you seem to have. Just how "custom" is this chat pad?

If you have a separate mixing solution, then you have a lot of options for connecting the optical or HDMI outputs of the XBone to your headphones. You can use any of the first-gen console DSP devices like the Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS, Tritton decoder, or Creative Recon3D USB, or newer devices from Turtle Beach or creative's X7. You can also use home theater receivers, some of them have their own headphone surround DSPs (such as Yamaha) and new ones may even support DTS Headphone X, which would be nice with the XBO's support for DTS output.


*deep breath*
The fact that Turtle Beach "had to" cut a deal with M$ irks me in the first place... it's great that Turtle Beach found a solution and have a competitive advantage, but AFAIK people can't use their own headphones in that system and IMO consoles should simply be open to headphone setups like PCs have always been. Tritton "had to" cut a similar deal with M$ with the 360 to get a similar solution for their Warhead model, which also was basically an underperforming headphone.

I think there are a lot of innovative and valuable changes to the XBOX One's hardware, but like you observed, the way chat audio is handled and routed is a source of constant consternation. The 360 was frustrating but at least you could get a decently simple setup with the right adapters or something like a Mixamp to act as a hub, but the XBox One is (as you know) even more proprietary (requiring extra M$ accessories, that plus the pre-launch politics/official attitude and a few other niggles is why I usually call the console the XBone and avoided buying one) and the setting to manually choose to play chat audio through "speakers" has really made the XBone pretty tricky. Even if M$ offered for sale to consumers a USB dongle accessory with a 3.5mm chat output Jack and a 3.5mm mic input jack, that would open the doors for maaaaaany practical setups. Headphone setups are more popular than ever before and continue to be a growing niche, not sure why all the console developers have afterthought-level support.
Not venting at/blaming you though, I understand that you worked on other parts of the system and have no power to affect change at this point on chat/headphone compatibility (and I sense you care since you have to go through the same issues yourself). The chat pad is an interesting idea and merits more investigation, yeah it's another thing to buy BUT at least with the XBone's automatic detection system, the chat pad adapter won't steal the game audio away from the Optical or HDMI output, so thanks for the interesting option.

I hear Microsoft treats it's employees (at least corporate) really well, one of the two times I visited California they were having a corportate vacation to the beach with food and events, looked like a lot of fun  Hope you enjoy your job and keep contributing to the good parts of Xbox-era Microsoft.

I really want to play Halo.


----------



## cashmoney

salbando said:


> I use the X7 with my Xbox one and I am able to use Xbox live chat function on there. I have the Xbox one headset adapter that I plug a headset y adapter into. I take the headphone out of the y adapter going into the line in on the X7. I then plug my microphone into the microphone jack on the y adapter.
> 
> Also note though that I had to replace my Xbox one headset adapter twice already because my first one failed with 2 months of use (microphone input was highly distorted and the party members couldn't understand me) and my second one after about about 2 months of use caused everyone talking in party chat to have a severe echo unless I muted myself. So I am on my third Xbox one headset adapter and it is working flawless again.


 
 Uhhh...you've definitely got me confused bro. It's probably just me who doesn't understand, and I apologize. However, I'm trying to figure this out. Okay, I'm gonna try to decipher this with what I think you mean.
  
 1.) Chat adapter on Xbox Controller -- Y adapter (Astro Y adapter pictured) goes into chat adapter 
 2.) Plug mic into purple side of the Y adapter
 3.) Plug 3.5mm to 3.5mm cord into green side of Y adapter and the other side into mic input on X7.
 4.) Plug Headphones into a headphone jack on the X7.
 5.) Success. You now have chat sound and game sound.
  
 Please let me know if that's what you mean. Thanks and have a good day.


----------



## esde84

cashmoney said:


> Uhhh...you've definitely got me confused bro. It's probably just me who doesn't understand, and I apologize. However, I'm trying to figure this out. Okay, I'm gonna try to decipher this with what I think you mean.
> 
> 1.) Chat adapter on Xbox Controller -- Y adapter (Astro Y adapter pictured) goes into chat adapter
> 2.) Plug mic into purple side of the Y adapter
> ...


 

 For step 3 I would be to run a 3.5mm headphone to 2xRCA cable, from the headphone connection on the Y adapter to the line in on the X7.
 Salbando would have to confirm if this is how they got it working.


----------



## salbando

cashmoney said:


> 1.) Chat adapter on Xbox Controller -- Y adapter (Astro Y adapter pictured) goes into chat adapter
> 2.) Plug mic into purple side of the Y adapter
> 3.) Plug 3.5mm to 3.5mm cord into green side of Y adapter and the other side into mic input on X7.
> 4.) Plug Headphones into a headphone jack on the X7.
> ...


 
 Quote:


esde84 said:


> For step 3 I would be to run a 3.5mm headphone to 2xRCA cable, from the headphone connection on the Y adapter to the line in on the X7.
> Salbando would have to confirm if this is how they got it working.


 
 Correct My X7 came with an adapter cable 2xRCA to a female 3.5mm jack. I then run a 3.5mm to 3.5mm like you described.

 So the "line in" (on the X7) has the 2xRCA to a female 3.5mm jack then the 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable into the green side of the Y adapter


----------



## salbando

styles said:


> With this setup, how well can you mix the chat and game volume?


 
 I have the same audio problem with the chat audio being quiet and the mixer settings on the X7 allow me to adjust the "SPDIF in" to around 60 to 80% (depending on how quiet the audio is) and I keep the "line in" volume at 100% to correct the quiet chat audio.


----------



## sepansk4

salbando said:


> Correct My X7 came with an adapter cable 2xRCA to a female 3.5mm jack. I then run a 3.5mm to 3.5mm like you described.


 
 This setup sounds like a ridiculous amount of wire clutter and mess.
  
 Can you post a few pictures of how the set up looks while in use? I think pictures will result in a much better understanding of how this works.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## l00l

What in-game audio setup on PS4 (also X360) would be the best using a Yamaha Yht s401 AVR+Fiio E6 or Astro Mixamp and Beyerdynamic DT 990 pro headphones. Would you recommend the "headphone" or the "home theatre" option if available? thx


----------



## Styles

high fidelity said:


> What Mixamp did you have before the one you have now? I had the 2011 version, but replaced it with the 2014 version a couple of months ago. Chat stopped working so I though that yet another Astro controller cable had failed. It turns out it wasn't the controller cable, but rather the 2.5mm to 3.5mm chat adapter cable. My 2011 Mixamp's optical port door had broken off as well several months prior. I had to tape the optical cable to the Mixamp to secure it. I didn't necessarily need to replace it, but with the tape job as well as the fact that I kept having to replace both the controller cable and y-apter, I decided to buy the 2014 Mixamp. I like the cabling better, but I prefer the sound of the 2011 Mixamp. Not a big fan of the EQ settings.


 
  
 It was the 2011 version of the Mixamp and it dies right before Destiny came out. So now I have the newest Astro Mixamp Pro.
 Here is my old Xbox 360 setup, just prior to adding an amp which ended up being the Asgard and switching from MMX300 to DT880 and now Senn HD 650… as you can see way back on page 20 of this thread!!!!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/lightbox/post/7240759/id/96529/user/170210
  


evshrug said:


> I think there are a lot of innovative and valuable changes to the XBOX One's hardware, but like you observed, the way chat audio is handled and routed is a source of constant consternation. The 360 was frustrating but at least you could get a decently simple setup with the right adapters or something like a Mixamp to act as a hub, but the XBox One is (as you know) even more proprietary (requiring extra M$ accessories, that plus the pre-launch politics/official attitude and a few other niggles is why I usually call the console the XBone and avoided buying one) and the setting to manually choose to play chat audio through "speakers" has really made the XBone pretty tricky. Even if M$ offered for sale to consumers a USB dongle accessory with a 3.5mm chat output Jack and a 3.5mm mic input jack, that would open the doors for maaaaaany practical setups. Headphone setups are more popular than ever before and continue to be a growing niche, not sure why all the console developers have afterthought-level support.
> Not venting at/blaming you though, I understand that you worked on other parts of the system and have no power to affect change at this point on chat/headphone compatibility (and I sense you care since you have to go through the same issues yourself). The chat pad is an interesting idea and merits more investigation, yeah it's another thing to buy BUT at least with the XBone's automatic detection system, the chat pad adapter won't steal the game audio away from the Optical or HDMI output, so thanks for the interesting option.
> 
> I hear Microsoft treats it's employees (at least corporate) really well, one of the two times I visited California they were having a corportate vacation to the beach with food and events, looked like a lot of fun
> ...


 
  
 First off just as an FYI, I do not work for M$. M$ does not design the console except the Industrial Design (aesthetic looks).  At the time, I worked for a design firm and we designed the fix for the original 360, the new 360 Slim, Surface Pro tablet, Xbox 360 Speed Wheel and a few other secret projects.  I no longer work for that firm, but it was fun for a couple years I was there.  It is total BS that Turtle Beach got the deal for the connection out via USB. Everyone should have that option.
  
  


salbando said:


> I have the same audio problem with the chat audio being quiet and the mixer settings on the X7 allow me to adjust the "SPDIF in" to around 60 to 80% (depending on how quiet the audio is) and I keep the "line in" volume at 100% to correct the quiet chat audio.


 
  
 This is exactly what I was hoping you would tell me and how I thought you have it set up!!!! Like my image of the BLUE chat line out of the chat adaptor (3.5mm) to the X7 via RCA line in on the back of the X7. Then use the settings in the software to adjust the levels of chat and game! I’m on the fence to buy one now, but am going to give my new crazy setup a shot for a little while.
  
 On to my new setup--
_Components:_
 Xbox One
 Astro Mixamp Pro
 Rolls MX22 Mini Mix
 Schiit Asgrad (v1)
 OEM Xbox One chat adaptor
 Headphone/Mic “Y” splitter
 Sennheiser HD 650
 Antlion Modmic
  

  
  
 RED - optical 5.1 out from XB1 to Astro
 GREEN – Game sound (3.5) out to Rolls (3.5) then to (RCA) Asgard then to HD 650
 BLUE – Chat out (3.5) from controller/chat adaptor to (RCA) Rolls then to (RCA) Asgard then to HD 650
 PINK – Mic in to controller/chat adaptor
  
 All of the game chat along with stereo game sound is carried in the controller.  Xbox One chat adaptor settings are turned all the way to full chat and volume all the way up. See YELLOW circles. That is how you get full chat volume out with the stereo game sound off that is carried in the controller. I threw an image of a real controller with OEM chat adaptor just for reference.
 Use the Rolls to mix the game and chat with a little fine tuning of sound level in the Astro and at the Asgard.
  
 I will receive the Rolls today, but have done a mini test of this setup where I used 2 sets of mono single male to dual female RCA’s in the back of the Asgard to route the controller chat and Astro game sound together into the Asgard. It sounded brilliant, but because the RCA connector cant cancel direction there was an echo for my friends as they could hear themselves echo because of cross talk on that RCA connector. Hence the need for the Rolls mixer.
  
 After tonight’s test, with success, I’d like to replace the Astro with another simple but high quality component that is optical in and Dolby Headphone out.  I have no need for the Astro as  a gaming “Mixamp” rather the need for getting game audio out of the XB1 and into Dolby headphone format.


----------



## Yethal

Shouldn't the riboon extension cable from the soundblaster recon 3d be a solution to all of the xbox one chat problems? The one pictured on the bottom of the screen. I gave away the Recon 3d I bought few weeks ago to my friend so I can't test this right now but I'm pretty sure it would work with the stereo headset adapter and a 2.5mm cable


----------



## Yethal

styles said:


> > This is exactly what I was hoping you would tell me and how I thought you have it set up!!!! Like my image of the BLUE chat line out of the chat adaptor (3.5mm) to the X7 via RCA line in on the back of the X7. Then use the settings in the software to adjust the levels of chat and game! I’m on the fence to buy one now, but am going to give my new crazy setup a shot for a little while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Would it work if the blue chat cable was plugged directly into the mixamp via mp3 or daisy chain port?


----------



## kashim

for 100% fps online competitive gaming i m looking for best headphone + soundcard combo(need 5,1 support end emulation for headphone and my z506 speakers) i m watching k612 - ad700x - k701 and for soundcard soundblaster z - phoebus solo...what raccomend for me?i need best positional audio,soundstage,and positional accuracy by the headphone...thank all for the help
  
 i have open a tread here if someone wanna reply and help me is great  thanks all 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/749885/best-positional-audio-for-hard-core-fps-gamer-headphone-soundcard
 max 250/300 euro


----------



## kashim

budget max 250/300 euro


----------



## Styles

yethal said:


> Shouldn't the riboon extension cable from the soundblaster recon 3d be a solution to all of the xbox one chat problems? The one pictured on the bottom of the screen. I gave away the Recon 3d I bought few weeks ago to my friend so I can't test this right now but I'm pretty sure it would work with the stereo headset adapter and a 2.5mm cable


 
 That depends. If the chat volume is mixed well with the game volume.  The Recon3D is the same as me using the Astro Mixamp for Xbox One.  Right now the issue is super low chat volume.  Also I'd like to know the sound quality of the Recon3D as I see in its specs talk of Dolby 5.1 decoding but is it outputting Dolby headphone?


----------



## Styles

yethal said:


> Would it work if the blue chat cable was plugged directly into the mixamp via mp3 or daisy chain port?


 
 No, that doesn not work at all (I tried to see if anything). If it did you would loose the mix aspect of it as well.


----------



## Yethal

styles said:


> > That depends. If the chat volume is mixed well with the game volume.  The Recon3D is the same as me using the Astro Mixamp for Xbox One.  Right now the issue is super low chat volume.  Also I'd like to know the sound quality of the Recon3D as I see in its specs talk of Dolby 5.1 decoding but is it outputting Dolby headphone?


 
 It's using a different algorithm and it does output mixed virtual surround but that's beside the point, the headset extension cable has a 2.5mm port on the cable itself so it would completely bypass the X7 or Xbox One internal hardware. There are some cons of this setup mainly:
  
 a) These cables are hard to come by on their own, one would have to buy entire Recon 3d just for this cable or ask Evshrug whther he's using his cable and if not buy just the cable from him.
 I may politely ask the guy I gave my Recon to if I can have just the cable back and just send it to You if You agree to cover the shipping costs.
  
 b) Game/chat balance would be kinda tricky.
  
 But overall I'm pretty sure it would work the same way it did on the Recon 3D.


styles said:


> No, that doesn not work at all (I tried to see if anything). If it did you would loose the mix aspect of it as well.


 
 It could when plugged into the daisy chain port, mixamps game/chat balance works for daisy chain ports.


----------



## green123

I am looking for a headset/headphone for my PC, but am on a limited budget. So 200 euro would be the absolute maximum in my case. I have an Asus Rampage IV mainboard, with an ALC898. I would like to stick with the onboard sound for now if possible, but can imagine buying a sound card later.
  
 The headphone/headset I am looking for should have good positional sound for gaming but also provide good sound quality when listening to music (hiphop/electro/house).
  
 Is the Creative Aurvana Live 1 or 2 what I'm looking for? From what I read so far, they seem to have good positional audio capabilities and also provide a good music listening expirience (with bass). The Aurvana Live 1 can be had for like 50 euro and the newer Live 2 for around 100 euro here.

 Or should I look for something else, like some AKG's or Sensheisers? For most of the AKG's I would need a soundcard because of the impedance, right? Does that apply to the 32Ohm versions as well?
  
 The ALC898 already provides some kind of Headphone virtualization but I also have the Razer software installed which should basically do the same (actually I find the Razer sound better than what the ALC898 driver provides).
  
 Thanks for any feedback!


----------



## Yethal

green123 said:


> I am looking for a headset/headphone for my PC, but am on a limited budget. So 200 euro would be the absolute maximum in my case. I have an Asus Rampage IV mainboard, with an ALC898. I would like to stick with the onboard sound for now if possible, but can imagine buying a sound card later.
> 
> The headphone/headset I am looking for should have good positional sound for gaming but also provide good sound quality when listening to music (hiphop/electro/house).
> 
> ...


 
 Check out Sennheiser PC360/350


----------



## idrr

is it true that the akg k712 pro has  the same comfort and sound or gaming as the q701?
 i heard that from a friend and he tried both and he have sbzxr
  
 thanks


----------



## Evshrug

styles said:


> It was the 2011 version of the Mixamp and it dies right before Destiny came out. So now I have the newest Astro Mixamp Pro.
> 
> Here is my old Xbox 360 setup, just prior to adding an amp which ended up being the Asgard and switching from MMX300 to DT880 and now Senn HD 650… as you can see way back on page 20 of this thread!!!!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/lightbox/post/7240759/id/96529/user/170210
> ...




*bows down to one who helped fix the heat issues of the launch 360*
Thank you! My original white 360 died an overheated death, but my black 360 Elite runs strong whenever I want to use it  Again, sounds like you participated in the best parts of Xbox-era Microsoft (as part of a contracted 3rd party), so thanks for that, hope you enjoy what you do now, too!

Part of me is happy you don't seem to mind my M$ moniker, I've felt it was apt in a few ways 


There's a lot of juicy setup info here, reminding me that I ought to post wiring setup photos to my X7 review here so others can reference it: Creative Labs' Sound Blaster X7
I really need to eat my belated lunch first, though!

*Just to confirm,*
Is the OEM XBOne chat adapter able to just do chat audio, repeatably, without automatically stealing game audio from the 5.1 surround optical output (or game audio to both at the same time, causing echo)? Since I don't have the system, this is important to know before I make a recommendation for a setup I don't personally own! Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

idrr said:


> is it true that the akg k712 pro has  the same comfort and sound or gaming as the q701?
> i heard that from a friend and he tried both and he have sbzxr
> 
> thanks



The comfort and sound are similar between the Q701 and K712, but not the same. I owned both side-by-side: the K712 has a similar sound character BUT has a little more bass, overall warmth, a little less soundstage separation; the Earpads of the Q701 are angled while the K712 is flat; the K712 headband is flat and more comfortable; they come with different accessory cables (they both have a 3m cable, Q701 has a super super long 10m cable, K712 has a coiled cable and velour storage pouch). Oh, and the colors are different


----------



## Styles

evshrug said:


> There's a lot of juicy setup info here, reminding me that I ought to post wiring setup photos to my X7 review here so others can reference it: Creative Labs' Sound Blaster X7
> I really need to eat my belated lunch first, though!
> 
> *Just to confirm,*
> Is the OEM XBOne chat adapter able to just do chat audio, repeatably, without automatically stealing game audio from the 5.1 surround optical output (or game audio to both at the same time, causing echo)? Since I don't have the system, this is important to know before I make a recommendation for a setup I don't personally own! Thanks!


 
 Yes the OEM XB1 chat pad when turned to full chat ( you hear a tone noise, beep, when it is) turns off the Stereo game sound coming from the controller. Has nothing to do with the optical in the console.
  
 For a cleaner setup you could use a modded chat pad cable like we did back when the console came out where you remove the wires from the over head single ear chat and solder a 2.5 or 3.5 plug on it depending on what you need to plug it into. 
  
 Here is an example:

  
  
 And yes please!!! Post up pics of the X7 setup. We need it all in here!


----------



## JakiChan

> *Just to confirm,*
> Is the OEM XBOne chat adapter able to just do chat audio, repeatably, without automatically stealing game audio from the 5.1 surround optical output (or game audio to both at the same time, causing echo)? Since I don't have the system, this is important to know before I make a recommendation for a setup I don't personally own! Thanks!


 
  
 Let me tell you what *I* have set up.  This may or may not help you.
  
 I have the Steelseries H Wireless.  I have the optical out of both my PS4 and Xbox one going into a Toslink switcher, and the switcher goes into the base of the Steelseries.
  
 The Steelseries base has a USB connection that goes into the PS4 to carry chat.
  
 The Steelseries headset has a "chat in" and I plug that into the Xbox One Stereo Headset Adapter via the TurtleBeach chat cable for Playstation (yeah, I know, but it works).
  
 When I set the Steelseries base to "Xbox" mode it all works.  Chat comes from the headset.  Their chatmix thing works great.  Normal 5.1 audio going to the headset.  I don't hear echo.


----------



## anthonyl

If you want my recommendation coming from recent experience...do not get the Sound Blaster Zx..worst soundcard I have ever owned in terms of sound quality. I have a Creative Fatality Titanium Pro and it sounds much better. I did a recent test where I ask a few people to listen to one card...removed it and installed the other and they all said the Titanium sounded so much better.
  
 The Zx was also unable to drive my AKG K612's to a decent volume..I bought an amp and fixed that problem.
  
 Coming from a set of Logitech G35 headphones to the AKG K612 Pro..is like night and day in terms of positional sound for gaming.. unbelievable difference.


----------



## JakiChan

stillhart said:


> I don't mind cables, I mind cable clutter.  Especially in my living room where I have a 2-year-old running around.  I sit a good 3-4m+ from my 70" TV so it's not really an option to have all those cables running around.
> 
> Now in my "man cave", where I sit like 2m from my TV and my little one isn't allowed to play, I don't mind having a cable or two running across the floor.  But I still clean it up after every play; the one time I leave it out is the time my son will run through there and trip on the cable and pull my PS4 off the shelf.
> 
> Don't worry, he's worth it.  :-D


 
  
 Exactly.  I'm using the Steelseries H wireless for this reason in my living room.  However, it's not what I want.
  
 I kinda want the person love child of the Steelseries H Wireless base station and the MixAmp 5.8, but with multiple inputs.  And maybe an optical out.  Base goes by the consoles, two optical in (PS and Xbox), USB mic out.  The remote by me has optical out for an outboard DAC/AMP, chat out to go to Xbox, and the controls to change settings, inputs, etc.  I'd pay decent money for that sort of a wireless solution, on top of the headphones and DAC/AMP I'd use.


----------



## Styles

yethal said:


> It's using a different algorithm and it does output mixed virtual surround but that's beside the point, the headset extension cable has a 2.5mm port on the cable itself so it would completely bypass the X7 or Xbox One internal hardware. There are some cons of this setup mainly:
> 
> a) These cables are hard to come by on their own, one would have to buy entire Recon 3d just for this cable or ask Evshrug whther he's using his cable and if not buy just the cable from him.
> I may politely ask the guy I gave my Recon to if I can have just the cable back and just send it to You if You agree to cover the shipping costs.
> ...


 
  
 Here is a quick layout 
  
 Check this diagram out and see if this is what you're thinking on using just that Recon cable/adaptor with an X7 setup. You would be using the "D" cable from the Recon3D as a way to mix in the chat audio.  Like you said the mixing would be tricky, maybe it would be still too low as well though.  i'd like to test it with running the chat line (CYAN) out of the "Y" splitter to the back of the X7 and adjust the levels of the X7 inputs via software like user *salbando *is doing. But I dont have an X7 (yet, lol) to check it out.


----------



## Yethal

This is exactly what I had in mind, as for the mixing, maybe maxing out the volume on the chat adapter + maxing out chat audio in system settings would be enough.


----------



## bavinck

So, on the X7 the chat/game volume balance is controlled on the phone app?


----------



## Styles

yethal said:


> This is exactly what I had in mind, as for the mixing, maybe maxing out the volume on the chat adapter + maxing out chat audio in system settings would be enough.


 
  
 Yes maxing it out is all you can do then dial down the optical in volume for the game in the X7 settings.
  
 That whole reason is why I'm getting the Rolls MX22s Mini Mix. Then I have full level control. For some it may seem over kill and maybe even a cluster ****** of cables, but I play at my desk in my home office so I keep my cables super clean and tucked. Also because I'm not in the living room I dont need a wireless setup. Besides the whole point of this excess headphone Hi-Fi is to use high end audio products anyway, LOL. So I don't think there will be a "Pepsi challenge" between the Sennheiser HD 650's and an out of the box gaming wireless setup anytime soon.


----------



## Styles

bavinck said:


> So, on the X7 the chat/game volume balance is controlled on the phone app?


 
  
 Check out user salbando's post earlier to me where he describes setting the input optical line in to about 80% to bring the game volume down so he can balance the game and chat on the X7. Now weather he is using the mobile app or the PC software version I dont know.
  
 I'm sure he'll give some more input on it.


----------



## cashmoney

Here's my (beautiful) diagram of what I believe to be Salbando's suggested set-up. Hope this helps.


----------



## wilflare

there really needs to be a comfy couch option for surround gaming on consoles
 can't imagine all the wires running across/around


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's called the Mixamp 5.8.


----------



## Evshrug

Photos, including one showing how to wire chat audio from DS4 to the back of the X7, added to the X7 review.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/210#post_11176870


----------



## Change is Good

Yikes :/


----------



## kashim

anthonyl said:


> If you want my recommendation coming from recent experience...do not get the Sound Blaster Zx..worst soundcard I have ever owned in terms of sound quality. I have a Creative Fatality Titanium Pro and it sounds much better. I did a recent test where I ask a few people to listen to one card...removed it and installed the other and they all said the Titanium sounded so much better.
> 
> The Zx was also unable to drive my AKG K612's to a decent volume..I bought an amp and fixed that problem.
> 
> Coming from a set of Logitech G35 headphones to the AKG K612 Pro..is like night and day in terms of positional sound for gaming.. unbelievable difference.


 
 for 100% fps online competitive gaming i m looking for best headphone + soundcard combo(need 5,1 support end emulation for headphone and my z506 speakers) i m watching k612 - ad700x - k701 and for soundcard soundblaster z - phoebus solo...what raccomend for me?i need best positional audio,soundstage,and positional accuracy by the headphone...thank all for the help
  
 i have open a tread here if someone wanna reply and help me is great  thanks all 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/749885/best-positional-audio-for-hard-core-fps-gamer-headphone-soundcard
 max 250/300 euro
  
 coming from siberia v2 frost blue


----------



## rudyae86

kashim said:


> for 100% fps online competitive gaming i m looking for best headphone + soundcard combo(need 5,1 support end emulation for headphone and my z506 speakers) i m watching k612 - ad700x - k701 and for soundcard soundblaster z - phoebus solo...what raccomend for me?i need best positional audio,soundstage,and positional accuracy by the headphone...thank all for the help
> 
> i have open a tread here if someone wanna reply and help me is great  thanks all
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/749885/best-positional-audio-for-hard-core-fps-gamer-headphone-soundcard
> ...


 

 There is no best headphone....period
  
 now to quickly answer your other question
  
 K701>K612+ Sound Blaster Z
  
 I would say stay away from the AD700X because some people have said it doesnt sound the same as the legendary AD700 (silver/purple colored). Also, not sure how it will handle the output impedance of the Sound Blaster Z and the AKG headphones work pretty well with it. Im using my sound Blaster with a K7XX and sounds great.
  
 Also, dont think you will be invisible or make you a better player the instant you use any of the headphones you are considering.
  
 I always say this because alot of people have this idea that it it will make you into this big awesome MLG pro gamer blah blah blah lol
  
 I dont have anything against the people who want pure analytical sound but I cant seem to figure out, how that specific sound, makes you feel happy lol.


----------



## kashim

rudyae86 said:


> There is no best headphone....period
> 
> now to quickly answer your other question
> 
> ...


 
 you think k612 or k701 is my best option for gaming? + soundblaster z
 i have foun k612 at 132 euro and k701 200...is 70 euro extra worth?
 can soundblaster z guide k612?have 500 ohm amp


----------



## Styles

Full night sesh of Destiny and testing the Rolls MX22s Mini Mix complete. 
 For those that game with your favorite hi-fi headphone and are using a wired setup on Xbox One.
  
 This update will not tell you how to sit across the room on your couch and figure out how to get this level of audio sound quality out of a wireless setup, so save it.
  
 With an XB1 and Astro mixamp pro (wired) the chat volume is pretty bad. I tried a few wiring tricks with some custom cables but none did anything to make it better. knowing the controller carries the full chat signal I wanted to push it out on its own and boost/control it separately from the game sound coming out of the Astro mixamp. I picked up the Rolls MX22s Mini Mix.
http://www.rolls.com/productImage.php?pid=MX22s
  
 Its powered and the sound on my setup is the best I have had yet on XB1. Picked mine up through Amazon for $49. 
 I'm able to cleanly adjust the mix between game and chat at a level that doesn't blow one over the other.
  
 Now that I'm not using any of the chat function of the Astro I'd like to replace it with a stand alone component that has optical in with a good dolby headphone out. Anyone have any ideas on something like that?


----------



## Stillhart

styles said:


> Full night sesh of Destiny and testing the Rolls MX22s Mini Mix complete.
> For those that game with your favorite hi-fi headphone and are using a wired setup on Xbox One.
> 
> This update will not tell you how to sit across the room on your couch and figure out how to get this level of audio sound quality out of a wireless setup, so save it.
> ...


 
  
 I believe the DSS1 would be your best bet.  @Evshrug can confirm.


----------



## Styles

stillhart said:


> I believe the DSS1 would be your best bet.  @Evshrug can confirm.


 
  
 Yep, thought about that old unit as well. But what I'm looking for doesn't necessarily have to be from the gaming industry. Still a good unit for its price point when you can find a new and not used one.


----------



## kcazbarach

crocandy said:


> After a quick bit of advice if possible.
> 
> I have X2>mixamp 2011>ps4 I'm using a boompro as a mic but I'm really struggling to find a decent balance between the chat and the game volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can't help you out, but i'm having the same issue with the xb1 set up of xb1--->2011 mixamp---->hd598s/modmic . With the astro mixamp and trying to find a balance between chat and game.
  
 I pretty much have to adjust the game chat volume to find a volume level I'm comfortable with, otherwise it's too loud, and I think that's more on the mixamp than anything, it' s just too loud imo even at low levels of the dial.


----------



## kcazbarach

pixelskills said:


> I have the astro mixamp 2013 with a magni connected to sennheiser game ones and it just sounds horrible when using dh. When i use my game one via usb audio through the mixamp in just stereo the detail in everything just pops and sounds soo good. Dh adds echo which I hate and really I cant tell any difference when it comes to directional cues. Maybe my brain just doesnt work right for it I am not sure but I can def tell when something is behind me better in stereo.


 
 forgive me if I'm "off" or wrong
  
 but You're dual amping with a stereo signal and a dh signal right? It might be why it sounds off, and I've had this issue when using the xbox 1 stereo adapter, dh just sounds compared to stereo and  I think since it's a stereo signal for the mic which might be causing it.
  
 That may be why it sounds off, and I've always used stereo and have no complaints really. i do Like Dolby headphone.


----------



## kcazbarach

crun said:


> I was about to buy HD598 as replacement for my broken HD555, but after some thinking it seems like a waste. I would like to get my HD555 fixed instead.
> 
> Can I replace my headband in HD555 using the one from HD595, HD558 or HD598?


 

 Just a heads up,
  
 as an owner of both,
  
 the hd 598 imo is really a step up compared to the hd 55s overall.
  
 Now if you're using it solely for gaming, the upgrade may not be worth it. Also the hd 598s reached $99 price point around black friday so you could probably find some used ones in that range, don't spend more than $140 new though.


----------



## Evshrug

styles said:


> Yep, thought about that old unit as well. But what I'm looking for doesn't necessarily have to be from the gaming industry. Still a good unit for its price point when you can find a new and not used one.




Yeeeeeah, the DSS is a bit better than the other entry-level DSP units I've tried in the SQ department, the DAC is decent but the best built-in amp and DH is a solid DSP. Used the DSS exclusively for half a year after selling my Recon3D USB (like, as soon as I heard about the upcoming X7, thought the resell prices would go DOWN, lol!), did well paired with an external amp and my AKGs or even acceptable plugging the K712 straight into the DSS (certainly plenty of volume dial left). I preferred the processing on the Recon3D USB and the weak amp was very clean for double amping, also a convenient setup for the PS4, buuuut now that DSP is expensive. Other DSP options are mostly home theater receivers and the Smith Realizer or Beyerdynamic Headzone, not really viable for most budgets, there's some new stuff from TB but I dunno how they do pare and which ones are compatible with any headphone.

X7's still on another level


----------



## Vader2k

crocandy said:


> After a quick bit of advice if possible.
> 
> I have X2>mixamp 2011>ps4 I'm using a boompro as a mic but I'm really struggling to find a decent balance between the chat and the game volume.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I also have a 2011 mixamp with similar problems.  I use the X1s with a boompro mic.  When I gamed on Xbox 360, I could turn chat to around 1 to 2 o'clock and hear my friend just fine with him being just a bit louder than the game audio.
  
 However, now on the PS4 I have to have the chat dial to just beyond 4 o'clock to hear him decently, but it's a still a bit quiet.  Game volume at this point is way too quiet for my liking.  We've made sure his mic volume is turned up adequately and I have the headphone volume turned up in the PS4 settings.
  
 I recently stumbled on a thread here called PS4 with 3.5mm x2 Type Headset... and from that I gleaned that the Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable (here on Amazon) should provide the fix that I'm looking for.  I've ordered one, but haven't received it yet.  From what I understand, it will not only boost the chat volume, but also re-enable the ability for mic monitoring, something I really like using to make sure I'm not talking too loudly.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> X7's still on another level




Yup, currently the most complicated wired mess available for consoles. Woop woop!


----------



## Fleat

change is good said:


> Yup, currently the most complicated wired mess available for consoles. Woop woop!


 
 If Creative manages to get the microphone over usb working on the PS4, it will at least be a cleaner solution for that console. We all know that the situation on the Xbox is more complicated due to contractual agreements so I wouldn't expect an elegant solution there.
  
 On the other hand, my years of owning Soundblaster cards has not instilled me with the utmost confidence in long term support from Creative.
  
 I believe that the most convenient solution is still the MixAmp Pro or MixAmp 5.8, but the support on that is negligible as well. The last firmware update for the MixAmp Pro was 2/14/2013 and things are not exactly working perfectly there either.


----------



## Styles

evshrug said:


> Yeeeeeah, the DSS is a bit better than the other entry-level DSP units I've tried in the SQ department, the DAC is decent but the best built-in amp and DH is a solid DSP. Used the DSS exclusively for half a year after selling my Recon3D USB (like, as soon as I heard about the upcoming X7, thought the resell prices would go DOWN, lol!), did well paired with an external amp and my AKGs or even acceptable plugging the K712 straight into the DSS (certainly plenty of volume dial left). I preferred the processing on the Recon3D USB and the weak amp was very clean for double amping, also a convenient setup for the PS4, buuuut now that DSP is expensive. Other DSP options are mostly home theater receivers and the Smith Realizer or Beyerdynamic Headzone, not really viable for most budgets, there's some new stuff from TB but I dunno how they do pare and which ones are compatible with any headphone.
> 
> X7's still on another level


 
  
 That Smyth Realiser A8 is crazy cool.... you may have just found the "thats a little much for gaming" limit on that unit. ROFL
 If the best hardware for good dolby headphone can be found in a small component package, Ill take it.  If not and its going to be a big unit I at least want a DSP fo DH that sounds the best. Maybe it is the X7. Based on its specs it uses some pretty nice parts inside for the DSP and DH. Maybe I'll hand with this Astro for that component in my setup till something comes along that I want to replace it with.
  


change is good said:


> Yup, currently the most complicated wired mess available for consoles. Woop woop!


 
  
 Haha, its not that bad.  I have wires all over with this setup, but its sounds bad ass! This little Rolls would solve some chat issue for quite a few gamers on both PS4 and XB1 with custom hi-fi and regular wired setups. Ill snap a real pic tonight.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Yup, currently the most complicated wired mess available for consoles. Woop woop!



Uh, not really, same amount of interconnections as any of the Mixamps. Wiring is exactly the same for Xbox, and for the PS4, people recommended the option to use a TB chat cable with the mixamp 5.8 for a long time if someone doesn't have the discontinued Astro USB chat cable, and the Syba usb dongle basically serves the same function in the alternate X7 setup as the Astro USB chat cable does if a person happens to have that.



fleat said:


> If Creative manages to get the microphone over usb working on the PS4, it will at least be a cleaner solution for that console. We all know that the situation on the Xbox is more complicated due to contractual agreements so I wouldn't expect an elegant solution there.



I mean, it's technically possible for the X7 hardware to support it, but the whole story involves more support from both Creative AND Sony/Microsoft.

Microsoft simply doesn't support USB mics at this time, Sony does but the PS4 USB stack apparently doesn't "see" the X7 as a mic or chat device (could be something creative could fix, or it could be that the X7 requires a driver to work over USB and thus the mic is only available where you CAN install drivers, therefore PC/Mac). The X7 is able to be seen as a communications device on Bluetooth, but Sony hasn't made firmware that allows 3rd party Bluetooth connections... yet (hopefully). I'd be curious if the PS3 can use the X7 as a Bluetooth chat device.

It's worth keeping in mind that the X7's mic is only about as good as a Kinect mic or Playstation Camera, and it faces the same issue of listening over a distance. If you already have or want those devices, the X7 doesn't have a better sounding mic (and the beamforming only makes a little difference).

I'm still sticking with my PS4 + Snowball for simplicity and quality.




styles said:


> That Smyth Realiser A8 is crazy cool.... you may have just found the "thats a little much for gaming" limit on that unit. ROFL
> If the best hardware for good dolby headphone can be found in a small component package, I'll take it.  If not, and it's going to be a big unit, I at least want a DSP for headphone surround that sounds the best. Maybe it is the X7. Based on its specs, it uses some pretty nice parts inside for the surround DSP and audio components. Maybe I'll hang with this Astro for that component in my setup till something comes along that I want to replace it with.




Right! That's why I said the Realizer isn't viable for most budgets, the return of investment may not be strong enough... Of course, with sound, R.O.I. is entirely subjective on anything you can buy, lol!

I subjectively think SBX > DH, but objectively the X7 uniquely is the only console-compatible device that can receive a digital signal, apply it's DSP, and have the option to digital-out to any optical DAC (and then amp) that you might want. With the other options, the built in component is What-You-DAC-Is-What-You-Get and you can only add an amp. Of course, the X7 comes with a really good DAC and Amp anyway (subjectively but also objectively good parts that probably measure well). If a decent DAC is good enough, then with your custom mixer setup the DSS is your best ROI.


----------



## Change is Good

That picture you posted of the X7 setup with the PS4 is a wired mess. Point, blank, period...

Turtle Beach cable is only needed for the 5.8 if missing the chat cable for PS4 compatibility. With the other mixamps on PS4, there is no wire needed coming out of the controller.

I have no XBOX, so never had to deal with the extra hassle.

So, yeah, really... a wired mess.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> That picture you posted of the X7 setup with the PS4 is a wired mess. Point, blank, period...
> 
> Turtle Beach cable is only needed for the 5.8 if missing the chat cable for PS4 compatibility. With the other mixamps on PS4, there is no wire needed coming out of the controller.
> 
> ...




*shrug* Wired mess is up for personal opinion, it's just two parallel signal paths, I agree that overall chat with the X7 is not ideal/optimized though.

The only real additional mess with a USB dongle like the Syba in the chain instead of the Mixamp's USB is that you end up wiring a mic from the PS4 instead of the mixamp. The controller linkup I pictured isn't any more cumbersome than a regular wired controller. The USB/Console Camera option is clean in the sense that it keeps stuff off your person and your hands free, and obviously works regardless of what DSP device is used (though USB only works on our PS4's, not the XBone users that were originally asking).

I wish Sony would open the firmware for the PS4 Bluetooth audio stack, that would neatly merge together everything and give more headphone options regardless. It seems hopeful that the X7 might be able to eventually transmit OUT to headphones, Last communication from Creative said this was a popular request and to "stay tuned." If BOTH feasible pieces come together, then the X7 could provide the connectivity holy grail of any wired or Bluetooth headphone with full chat support, but right now it has full wired headphone support with integrated chat for PC gamers. I ordered a Meelectronics Bluetooth Matrix2, I'll have to try pairing it to my friend's PS3 and imagine the handsfree wireless possibilities. I admit I thought about trying turtle beach's Elite X500p just to see how I might like a completely wireless (DTS X) setup, but unfortunately reviews state that the X500 sounds worse and is less comfortable than TB's cheaper wired X400 (that doesn't come with any DSP). Companies are trying though and we're on the cusp of somebody doing it all "right," but personally as someone who prefers a wired setup anyway (better DAC/amp) I'm already satisfied.


----------



## Yethal

The Astro Chat cable can be substituted with usb dongle + 2x 3.5mm minijacks + 4 pole adapter as far as I know. 
  
 As for the X7 and chat, the Steelseries Audiomixer (or a similar device) should work just fine. The 3.5mm cable would go to the X7 headphone output and the USB to the PS4 for chat. It did work with the first gen mixamp (which didn't have usb audio at all) so it should work now.


----------



## kashim

guys sorry help me for competitive headphone 100% gaming use,i need best soundstage/imaging/positional audio possible in 150/200 euro i m looking between k612 and ad700x
 i know ad700x have larger soundstage more elliptic then normal and is more difficult undestrand left right or back(i m not sure if is real..) with less imaging then akg k612..my question is for competitive player a lesser soundstage(how much lesser is really notable or op between k612 and ad700?or is a little lesser) is balanced by better imaging and positional audio by k612?(is really better)
 price is near ad700 150euro k612 135 euro (i have eliminate k701 in my country price is more then 200 euro isn t worth imho)
 comfort k612 is better
 music and immersive gaming i think more bass from k612 is crucial and better
 help me to chooce please ^^


----------



## John_M

Still can't see why people aren't keener to go via HDMI (which will allow lossless surround sound).
  
 How about this, if you have a PC handy:
  
http://www.asus.com/uk/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_HDAV13_Deluxe/
  
 Sound card with an HDMI passthrough and Dolby Headphone. Can be had for a reasonable price on eBay. There's also a slimline version.
  
 Unfortunately, from looking at the manual, it seems that this may only do 5.1 (and possibly upscale to 7.1). It won't do true 7.1. To have full lossless 7.1 you need either a Realizer or a suitable AVR.


----------



## Yethal

john_m said:


> Still can't see why people aren't keener to go via HDMI (which will allow lossless surround sound).
> 
> How about this, if you have a PC handy:
> 
> ...


 
 It requires a suitable PC to operate.


----------



## John_M

yethal said:


> It requires a suitable PC to operate.


 

 Yep, I didn't say it was perfect. 
  
 I also wonder whether the fact it only does HDMI 1.3a might cause a problem somewhere...


----------



## Yethal

john_m said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > It requires a suitable PC to operate.
> ...


 
 It shouldn't but HDMI passthrough introduces display lag and most people that come in here need competitive advantage.


----------



## John_M

yethal said:


> HDMI passthrough introduces display lag...


 
  
 Not necessarily - it depends on the device. In general, surely if it is a 'passthrough' of the video, it shouldn't add lag? I currently play on a Realiser and can feel no additional lag at all. Admittedly that is only my subjective 'feel' rather than a proper test, but even if it is adding a couple of milliseconds (and I can't see any reason why it would if it is a pure passthrough) then the sound advantages easily outweigh it. I previously played on a Marantz AVR with Dolby Headphone (using lossless HDMI) and didn't feel any lag on that either.
  
 I'm about a 2.5 K/D in CoD (and I know someone who has a 4 K/D using a receiver) so it really can't be adding that much lag.


----------



## Yethal

john_m said:


> Not necessarily - it depends on the device. In general, surely if it is a 'passthrough' of the video, it shouldn't add lag? I currently play on a Realiser and can feel no additional lag at all. Admittedly that is only my subjective 'feel' rather than a proper test, but even if it is adding a couple of milliseconds (and I can't see any reason why it would if it is a pure passthrough) then the sound advantages easily outweigh it. I previously played on a Marantz AVR with Dolby Headphone (using lossless HDMI) and didn't feel any lag on that either.
> 
> I'm about a 2.5 K/D in CoD (and I know someone who has a 4 K/D using a receiver) so it really can't be adding that much lag.


 
 The content of the HDMI stream need to be read by the receiver (the hdmi does not have specific audio or video pins) and, decoded (if the transmitter device is using HDCP).
 It may perhaps be only couple of miliseconds but even that amount is detrimental to the player as it decreases controller responsiveness.


----------



## Styles

Also at CES, Turtle Beach has their new "Elite 800X". Seems to be an other step up for the wireless people out there.
  
 I think I will end up trying out a X7 sometime.
  
 Another idea is that I will just design my custom enclosure, print it out on my 3D printer and and combine the Rolls mixer internals with either a DSS or the Astro internals.
  
 Its always gotta be custom!


----------



## Stillhart

styles said:


> Also at CES, Turtle Beach has their new "Elite 800X". Seems to be an other step up for the wireless people out there.
> 
> I think I will end up trying out a X7 sometime.
> 
> ...


 
 I talked to TB at CES.  No TAC, not even on display, and no ETA.  I can't believe those guys scammed an exclusive deal with MS to do chat over USB and they're squandering it.  That alone makes me actually really dislike TB a lot more than if they'd actually put out a DSS3 or whatever.


----------



## inseconds99

I am going to be purchasing the Sennheiser HD 700 this week, does anyone have any experience with these for gaming? What dac/amp would you recommend for my pc for the HD 700? Also how do the 700's compare to the ma900's in soundstage and bass, reason I ask is because these are the only 2 headphones I wanted because of their supposed comfort levels. There are not much of a difference in price as I can get the 700's $100 more then the ma900.

My goals: 
Comfort
Competitive gaming
Bass

Thanks


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I am going to be purchasing the Sennheiser HD 700 this week, does anyone have any experience with these for gaming? What dac/amp would you recommend for my pc for the HD 700? Also how do the 700's compare to the ma900's in soundstage and bass, reason I ask is because these are the only 2 headphones I wanted because of their supposed comfort levels. There are not much of a difference in price as I can get the 700's $100 more then the ma900.
> 
> My goals:
> Comfort
> ...


 
  
 The HD700 are pretty good for gaming, if you can deal with the treble spike.  They're super mega comfortable.  
  
 If you've read much of the guide, you should know that bass and competitive gaming don't tend to go hand in hand.  Most of the best competitive cans tend to be bass-light.  I'd say the HD700 is right in the middle, an all-arounder.  @Evshrug has gamed with them more than I did.  He can probably elaborate.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> The HD700 are pretty good for gaming, if you can deal with the treble spike.  They're super mega comfortable.
> 
> If you've read much of the guide, you should know that bass and competitive gaming don't tend to go hand in hand.  Most of the best competitive cans tend to be bass-light.  I'd say the HD700 is right in the middle, an all-arounder.  @Evshrug
> has gamed with them more than I did.  He can probably elaborate.




Thank you for the response, yes I have noticed that with bass heavy cans. It doesn't have to be a bass monster but as long it has some bass and isn't like the q701 which is bass light. Also I'm looking to buy this dac/amp http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A2QLPJM/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2Q0JVLI22BSVA as it is optical and will pass through my sbx surround. Do you think this will power my 700's and is it a good dac/amp? If not could you recommend another?


----------



## conquerator2

I don't think SMSL is the best decision.
Good components? Yep. Price? Sure. Well built and SQ acclaimed? Probably not...
But it's worth a try I guess. Do report back 
You would be hard pressed to find a DAC/amp that cheap elsewhere.
Topping is a well acclaimed manufacturer. Muse is not bad. Matrix is good. Gustard is fine. To name a few decent Chinese manufacturers.


----------



## inseconds99

conquerator2 said:


> I don't think SMSL is the best decision.
> Good components? Yep. Price? Sure. Well built and SQ acclaimed? Probably not...
> But it's worth a try I guess. Do report back
> You would be hard pressed to find a DAC/amp that cheap elsewhere.
> Topping is a well acclaimed manufacturer. Muse is not bad. Matrix is good. Gustard is fine. To name a few decent Chinese manufacturers.




I'm willing to spend more but I watched a review from zeospantera and he said it was amazing. Not sure if he is an employee of smsl but he seems to love this dac/amp.


----------



## Styles

Update real pics of Rolls setup with Astro | Asgrad | HD 650 | XB1
  
 _Wired up on desktop_
  

  
  
 _Resting mode_
  

  
  
 _Monitor out // Gaming mode_
  



  
  
  
 _Rack // XB1  |  Cambridge Audio azur 351A hooked up to Audio Engine P4 bamboo speakers_


----------



## lenroot77

styles said:


> Update real pics of Rolls setup with Astro | Asgrad | HD 650 | XB1
> 
> _Wired up on desktop_
> 
> ...




Very nice "lair" sir!


----------



## Evshrug

Styles,
That is a truely awesome and well-sorted area and setup. It's almost annoying how clean other people's setups look than mine, but really I'm "that kind" of artist whose busy mind is unfortunately reflected in a busy table. Thanks for reminding me that I'd really like to get an articulating arm mount for my display 
No meaning to sound creepy, but I'd enjoy watching you stream gameplay while also getting to see you enjoying your custom environment. Stay cool dude!



inseconds99 said:


> I am going to be purchasing the Sennheiser HD 700 this week, does anyone have any experience with these for gaming? What dac/amp would you recommend for my pc for the HD 700? Also how do the 700's compare to the ma900's in soundstage and bass, reason I ask is because these are the only 2 headphones I wanted because of their supposed comfort levels. There are not much of a difference in price as I can get the 700's $100 more then the ma900.
> 
> My goals:
> Comfort
> ...



I have the HD700 and have heard the MA900, I got a good impression of the MA900's character testing with games/movies/music (tbh I've used the HD700 longer so far but only for gaming, so far!).

The MA900 does have more air to the soundstage (10/10 positional imaging) and has a bit more of an "out of your head" feeling, the Mids were very nice IMO and the sound was not fatiguing which was also combined with lightweight comfort. Pads make contact with your head and touch your ears, but the clamp is light and the headphones so light that you might forget you're wearing them. Bass starts warm, but rolls off extension into subbass and lacks treble sparkle and extension... this has the pros of being pleasant and not fatiguing, but it lacked punch and excitement while streaming Dredd on Netflix and generally for my tastes the MA900 was a bit tame. YMMV, mad thought the bass was great.

The HD700 has a quite full-bodied sound, bass has nice extension and presence but not "OMG" taking over/away from the whole sound. Also has nice mids, treble has an unusual mix of overall not being very bright except for some sounds like cymbals have sparkle, it is exciting but some people find the uneven sparkle spots weird, I don't mind it and feel it was somewhat intentional even if a bit colored. The soundstage and positional imaging capabilities are very good, depth is perceivable, however it has that full-bodied sound instead of that airy-character and imaging is maybe 9/10 for distinct position, some people might find it more "real" and less exaggerated. Weight of the headphone is just shy of double the MA900, but it's still very comfortable and distributes the weight very well so you don't feel a particular sense of pressure, the sculpted earpads fit free of my ears perfectly and the surface texture is one of the least irritating to my skin. Aesthetically gorgeous. Oh, and IMO it would be foolish not to have an amp to bring out the life of the HD700, also the plug is the bigger 1/4" size only and won't fit in portable amps. I use the creative X7 as my DSP/DAC/amp and that combo works admirably (and I play with the EQ), you could also use a home theater receiver, and the HD700 thread has amp suggestions. The HD700 is a big boy headphone, don't let the $100 sale price difference you found confuse you about the quality of the system needed to bring out the potential of the HD700, but when you do the HD700 is on a different level from the MA900.

The HD700's full-bodied sound might be more to your taste, neither have strong bass emphasis but the bass has plenty of quality to appreciate, and the MA900 might be better for hours and hours of gaming. Have you heard the Q701? Those are air-y too, but not bass-shy (just not emphasizing the bass). Either of These don't really have more bass than the Q701, especially once the Q701 pads start to break in from wearing and the oils from your skin, the pair of Q701 I passed along to ZROleaf had great bass presence and we were both impressed with the thunder sound in certain parts of Destiny gameplay (my Q701 were over 2 years old). The MA900 may have a bigger upper-midbass hump emphasis than the stock Q701, but the Q701 and especially K712 had deeper bass extension and had a more exciting sound (sparkly treble helped that too). The HD700 has good extension too, the bass bump isn't really higher but has that thicker body I mentioned.


----------



## High Fidelity

For those of you that run Astro Mixamp + Amp + Headphones with mic, when the mic is not connected do you use the Mixamp alone? Even If I can get satisfying volume with the Mixamp connected to my K7XX sans mic would I get improved sound if I add the Schiit Magni 2 Uber or just louder volume?


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> I have the HD700 and have heard the MA900, I got a good impression of the MA900's character testing with games/movies/music (tbh I've used the HD700 longer so far but only for gaming, so far!).
> 
> The MA900 does have more air to the soundstage (10/10 positional imaging) and has a bit more of an "out of your head" feeling, the Mids were very nice IMO and the sound was not fatiguing which was also combined with lightweight comfort. Pads make contact with your head and touch your ears, but the clamp is light and the headphones so light that you might forget you're wearing them. Bass starts warm, but rolls off extension into subbass and lacks treble sparkle and extension... this has the pros of being pleasant and not fatiguing, but it lacked punch and excitement while streaming Dredd on Netflix and generally for my tastes the MA900 was a bit tame. YMMV, mad thought the bass was great.
> 
> ...




Awesome information man, much appreciated. In sticking with the HD 700's. By any chance can you or anyone recommend a good dac/amp. I am on a budget as I am getting there 700's for a very good price. I'm using it for pc gaming and I also enjoy edm, hip hop, metal and pop. Want to keep it under $200 if possible. Would a e10k with its bass boost be good? Modi2/magi2, smsl 793-ii optical, odac/O2?

Also I will need a 1/4 to 1/8 adapter I would assume, anyone have any recommendations?


----------



## Evshrug

Grado has a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter with a short cord inbetween, this is ideal to keep from having a big fat weight straining the headphone port.

You seem to be seeking a connection with optical devices?


----------



## Yethal

high fidelity said:


> For those of you that run Astro Mixamp + Amp + Headphones with mic, when the mic is not connected do you use the Mixamp alone? Even If I can get satisfying volume with the Mixamp connected to my K7XX sans mic would I get improved sound if I add the Schiit Magni 2 Uber or just louder volume?


 
 Both improved sound and louder volume. After I plugged my mixamp into the Magni I never unplugged it again (except for cleaning/maintenance stuff) With the right cables You can turn the Mixamp/Magni combo into a really tidy setup.


----------



## conquerator2

inseconds99 said:


> I'm willing to spend more but I watched a review from zeospantera and he said it was amazing. Not sure if he is an employee of smsl but he seems to love this dac/amp.




The one you linked to really seems like a nice little unit for the price. The reviews praise it 
Though the DAC portion is probably much better than the amp portion.
For the price again, I would probably give it a shot


----------



## kashim

guys please help me...for fps competitive gaming only use ad700x or akg k612? i buy soundblaster z with 500 ohm amp i need best soundstage,imaging and positional accuracy possible


----------



## John_M

yethal said:


> The content of the HDMI stream need to be read by the receiver (the hdmi does not have specific audio or video pins) and, decoded (if the transmitter device is using HDCP).
> It may perhaps be only couple of miliseconds but even that amount is detrimental to the player as it decreases controller responsiveness.


 
  
 The Realiser doesn't (and can't) do any decoding - it just passes the video straight through. And it needs the source device to transmit LPCM audio - it can't decode Dolby Digital or TrueHD or the DTS equivalents. It may be different with receivers but there's no noticeable lag...


----------



## Yethal

kashim said:


> guys please help me...for fps competitive gaming only use ad700x or akg k612? i buy soundblaster z with 500 ohm amp i need best soundstage,imaging and positional accuracy possible


 
 Buy Audeze LCD-3 with MSB Diamond DAC IV and Schiit Ragnarok amp. This is the only solution.


----------



## conquerator2

^ Or the Yggdrasil.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> Grado has a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter with a short cord inbetween, this is ideal to keep from having a big fat weight straining the headphone port.
> 
> You seem to be seeking a connection with optical devices?




I have read that if I go optical out to a dac/amp I could use my sbx "virtual surround" out of my pc sound card and the surround sound will work through the dac. I am not tied to optical, just something I've read about recently. If you have other recommendations that would be awesome. I am going to have the headphones this week and am going to be without dac/amp, not good lol.


----------



## kashim

yethal said:


> Buy Audeze LCD-3 with MSB Diamond DAC IV and Schiit Ragnarok amp. This is the only solution.


 
 lol  i have 200 euro max for headphone not 2kxD


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> Buy Audeze LCD-3 with MSB Diamond DAC IV and Schiit Ragnarok amp. This is the only solution.


 

 The MSB dac isn't the best dac you can get..don't believe what you read on absolute sounds and stereophile half of it's a pile if crap..you can get loads of dacs that beat that for a lot less..audio research gear is a lot better than anything MSB can do..the media bridge beats the diamond dac IV in every way..i have the dac 8 and that will probably even beat it!


----------



## kashim

k612 or ad700x for gaming only use?(cs go) and soundblaster z


----------



## Stillhart

kashim said:


> k612 or ad700x for gaming only use?(cs go) and soundblaster z


 
  
 I'm sure you'll be happy with either.  The AT should be better for pure competitive gaming and the AKG should be better for just about everything else.  But if you will literally use them for nothing other than competitive gaming, get the AT.


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Buy Audeze LCD-3 with MSB Diamond DAC IV and Schiit Ragnarok amp. This is the only solution.
> ...


 
 I wasn't going for best sounding. I was going for ridiculously expensive.


----------



## Styles

lenroot77 said:


> Very nice "lair" sir!


 
  
 Thanks man! The rack is Rubbermaid (Closetmaid) with the wood front covers. Easy to install and holds a ton of weight as well as keeping things cool and cleanly organized.  I use another one in our den for the living room components so there are no components in the living room just the TV mounted to the wall. All RF remotes FTW!
  


evshrug said:


> Styles,
> That is a truely awesome and well-sorted area and setup. It's almost annoying how clean other people's setups look than mine, but really I'm "that kind" of artist whose busy mind is unfortunately reflected in a busy table. Thanks for reminding me that I'd really like to get an articulating arm mount for my display
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Velcro wire wraps are your friend. Its easy to clean up any setup. That wall mount for the monitor is the longest reach single mount at 21".  I have a couple others and it will hold a 32" no problem if needed.  I think it was like $25 ish on amazon.
  
 Hahaha, for sure no worries on that. I'll try to stream more. My Twitch is: *styles_monster *
 Lots of trash talk and I have a fun group of friends to make it a good watch. Plenty of "XBOX- RECORD THAT!!!" highlight reel action for sure.


----------



## Donnyboy98

"Fun" as in sound quality and how enjoyable it is?


----------



## becnel51

Hello everyone, new to site / forum. Let me start off by saying I'm a audio novice, but aspire to one day become a true audiophile. Over the past week I've read numerous post on gaming equipment, setups, reviews and so on.... (many of Mad Lust Envy's post also). *I would like to acquire a truly amazing gaming headset / audio setup. *
  
*Here is a general overview of my situation:*
 1. Console Gamer only. I game on the PS4 and XB1
 2. I play pretty much every genre, but mostly shooters (BF4, Destiny, Halo, COD, and so on...)
 3. I game / sit 9-10 ft. away from my TV / entertainment center
  
*What's Important to Me:*
 1. Amazing Game Audio
 2. Excellent Mic to communicate with team members, this is a must. I must be able to clearly chat on both consoles.
 3. Must be comfortable
 4. Headset / setup must work with both consoles
 5. To easily and quickly be able to adjust game volume and chat volume, (independently if possible). 
 6. Ease of use, and not having to constantly make adjustments to various pieces of equipment. When I game, that's what I want to do..game. I don't want to have to adjust 3 or 4 pieces of equipment to get the perfect settings for one game, to only have to change everything for another game, or when I switch consoles. 
  
*Budget = $500 - $800 (I don't mind spending extra $$ for good quality products, that work, last, and have good warranties)*
  
*Headsets I've considered (in no particular order)*
 - Sennheiser G4ME One
 - Sennheiser PC 363D
 - Beyerdynamic (Several Versions, could use advice, which would be best)
 - Philips Fidelio X1 or X2
  
 I'm partial to the Sennheiser's because they come with a Mic, but I have no problem getting a mic for the other headsets (would need some advice on some good options)
  
 From many of the post I've read, it appears for console gaming, the following is recommended: (please correct if I misinterpreted):
 - Initally "Drive" headsets of this quality with an Astro Mixamp Pro, to add the virtual surround sound (as if a pre-amp)
 - Use another external amp to power the headphones, hence a recommended setup from a Mad Lust Envy post below:
  
"if using a mic:
 Source - Mixamp - Y cable (one end for chat, one for audio) - Mic on chat end, headphone Amp on the audio end - Headphone"
  
 For the most part, I understand this concept. If would buy an external amp, it more than likely would be a *Schiit Magni 2. *This appeals to me because it's "wall / outlet" powered, and could serve me for many years, for many quality headsets. (still open to other wall powered external amps though, feel free to suggest).
  
*Here is where my confusion begins:*
*1.* Can I achieve what I want, from my "What's Important List?"
*2. *How do I adjust the game audio - volume & chat audio / volume independently for each console? 
  
 For example on the *PS4* (Let's say I'm using a Sennheiser G4ME One headset, which comes with a mic)"
 a.) Do I adjust game audio via the mix amp, the external amp, or the actual volume adjustment on the headset?
 b.) Same question for the chat volume?
 c.) How should each device be set? (Mix Amp, external amp, Headset)
 d.) Which device controls which features? (game audio, voice chat volume)
  
 I understand for the *XB1*, I'll need the headset chat adapter, but that throws another wrench into the problem, because the adapter has controls for game audio, and mic audio. So I have the same four questions (a,b,c,d) for the X1, as i did for the PS4, but now with a 5th question, how do the controls on the adapter effect everything?
  
 I'm sorry for the numerous questions guys & gals. Everything I've read and researched points me back to this site as the "Go to" place for this kind of information. Any information / help / suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
  
*Lastly, I do have several fears with a setup this sophisticated:*
 - There will be a ton of cables and connections, I really don't want to spend all this money and time, to end up with buzzing or hissing headphones.
 - Will this ultimately be user friendly and comfortable? I really don't want to have to constantly adjust numerous devices. And I really don't want a whole bunch of cables I have to constantly move and adjust, just to enjoy a gaming session. 
  
 Once again, Thank you for any suggestions /assistance. And sorry for any misinterpretations, I'll trying to learn about this vast world of audio.


----------



## AaronBroad

I've been away from this forum for a while now. I'm looking to sell a set of K702s (+ Annie pads + Antlion modmic). Where should I list it? The 'Headphones For Sale / Trade' thread doesn't seem to have as many gaming headsets as I recall. 
 Thanks much!


----------



## Styles

@becnel51
 Here,s my recent update to XB1 gaming.  If you go a back a few pages here you can see some of my most recent items on chat and getting it to work better for XB1, cant help on the PS4 side but there are plenty of others that can.  One thing to note is that I game at my desk so I dont care anything about wires and do not want anything tho do with a wireless setup!  You'll see a lot of chatter about that as well.
  

  

  
 The Rolls is the key to get full best sounding chat.


becnel51 said:


> Hello everyone, new to site / forum. Let me start off by saying I'm a audio novice, but aspire to one day become a true audiophile. Over the past week I've read numerous post on gaming equipment, setups, reviews and so on.... (many of Mad Lust Envy's post also). *I would like to acquire a truly amazing gaming headset / audio setup. *
> 
> *Here is a general overview of my situation:*
> 1. Console Gamer only. I game on the PS4 and XB1
> ...


----------



## High Fidelity

@becnel51
  
  
 A lot to digest, but I'll answer what I can. Hopefully more will chime in.
  
 First, what do you mean by "amazing game audio"? Do you want a massive soundstage and accurate positioning for God-mode competitive play? Or do you want a more immersive experience for all-around gaming? If the former, you would lose some fun factor, especially bass. If the later, you would lose some soundstage, possibly positioning accuracy in exchange for fun factor and increased bass.
  
 I think most people here would suggest that you forget gaming headsets if you're looking for "amazing game audio". imo headphones offer better sound and more options. 
  
 I don't have a PS4, but I do have an Xbox One. My setup is similar to what you want to achieve. Xbox One - Astro Mixamp 2014 - Schiit Magni 2 Uber - AKG K7XX - Modmic 4.0 
  
 I'll try to answer the questions you posted, but for the Xbox One not PS4
  
*a.) Do I adjust game audio via the mix amp, the external amp, or the actual volume adjustment on the headset?*
  
 On the Mixamp set volume to 3/4 to max. On the amp set to desired volume. No idea about a headset.
  
*b.) Same question for the chat volume?*
  
 Adjust chat volume to your liking. When set all the way to game the amp is giving game audio max power, you can't hear chat. If set all the way to chat, the opposite. Unfortunately, I find that with the Xbox One that in order to hear people properly the game/chat knob has to be set at 2-3 o'clock. As a result you lose a lot of the Mixamp's power for game audio, which is why an additional amp is suggested for headphones that are harder to drive. 
  
*c.) How should each device be set? (Mix Amp, external amp, Headset)*
  
 Not sure what you mean. Question seems redundant to a) and b). 
  
*d.) Which device controls which features? (game audio, voice chat volume)*
  
 The Mixamp controls overall volume and game/chat balance. The amp controls overall volume. Once you set the Mixamp to 3/4 to max volume only use the amp to control volume. 
  
 For the Xbox One chat adapter I max the volume by pressing "+" until I hear a beep. I keep pressing the party chat icon (person) until I hear a beep. I tried increasing game volume (controller icon) on the adapter, but I didn't like the sound quality. 
  
 Since I only have my setup connected to one console I'm not quite sure how you want it setup for two consoles. The options I see are to unplug the usb and optical connection from the back of the Mixamp (assuming you have two sets of usb and optical cables) each time you switch consoles or get a switch or splitter. I'm not familiar with which switch to get.


----------



## becnel51

@Styles, wow thank you very much. I wouldn't have considered the Rolls MX22. I'll take a look those previous posts.
  
@High Fidelity, Thanks for the quick reply. To honestly answer your question:
*"First, what do you mean by "amazing game audio"? Do you want a massive soundstage and accurate positioning for God-mode competitive play? Or do you want a more immersive experience for all-around gaming?"*
 I would definitely say, More Immersive Experience for all-around gaming. I tend to play more shooters, but at the end of the day, I'm a gamer, so eventually I play a little bit of everything. Am I considering the right headphones for this?

  
@High Fidelity, in regards to: *"I'm not quite sure how you want it setup for two consoles."*
 My thoughts were to extend all connections to the Mixamp, Via a couple devices: (I have a coffee table right next to where I sit to game)
 1. *ViewHD SPDIF / Toslink 4X2* (it has IR controls, so I was going to program my Universal Remote to control it)
 2. *Longer cables: *
*   -  *Basically a longer Toslink to Mini-Toslink cable from the Switcher to the Mixamp
    -  Then a longer USB to Micro from the console to the Mixamp. (For power to Mixamp, and I believe the PS4 handles chat via USB). My thoughts were to leave my PS4 in Rest / Standby mode, where it gives power to the USB ports. Therefore I wouldn't have to switch USB ports, when I switch consoles. 
    -  If I couldn't find a long enough USB to Micro, or it caused problems, I considered a USB active extension cable with a USB to Micro Adapter
  
 I believe that would handle all my connections to extend the Mixamp, and allow the Mixamp and the rest of the equipment to be right next to me. More than likely, I would run these wires via a wall channel along the baseboard, so I don't have wires in the middle of the floor.
  
 Here is the delimma, I'm going to bad a Dad soon. So my days of cranking up the 7.1 surround sound system, will have to be put on hold for a while (And no, I can not relocate my entire gaming setup, I've actually consider this, but it's just not feasible). But, I don't want to lose that amazing audio while I game (You guys have a thread for that "Help Gaming Dads keep their Amazing Audio?") So, I feel like I have two options:
*Option 1.* Nice headphone setup via the advice of everyone at Head-fi
*Option 2.* Go completely wireless (I know everyone here, is going to kill me for typing that, Sorry everyone, just being honest)
  
*Option 1:* Will probably equal numerous devices (Headphones, external mic, Astro Mixamp, Additional amp, possible Rolls MX22 MiniMix, and lots of cables and wires to contend with). I should be able to get amazing audio, but at $$
*Option 2:* Probably won't give me the level of audio I desire, but will work out of the box with both consoles, and I won't have a ton of cables and wires to contend with. Should cost less than the first option. (Via something like Astro A50s, Steelseries H, SkullCandy PLYR 1, or Turtle Beach 800). 
  
 Once again, sorry for mentioning the wireless option on this site /forum, but I'm being completely honest with everyone. I'm not sure if this information makes it easier or harder to advise on my situation, but all input is welcomed and appreciated. I've never had to consider these things, as I've always gamed via surround sound.
 Anyway, Thanks to everyone.


----------



## High Fidelity

@becnel51 
  
 If you haven't already read it, there is a long list of reviews on page 1 of this thread. Provides info on what headphones/headsets are more fun, immersive vs more competitive, and in between. Mad Lust Envy mentioned posting his Fidelio X2 review soon so that may help. He's really high on the X2 as a great all-arounder. 
  
 If I didn't get the AKG K7XX I would be looking really hard at the AKG Q701 if I was focused more on competitive and the X2 for all-around gaming. I'm not familiar with the Sennheisers you mentioned nor the Beyerdynamics. 
  
 To throw another wrench into the works, with your stated budget, take a look at the Creative Sound Blaster X7. It's a highly functional DAC and amp in one unit. Would take the place of the Astro Mixamp and additional amp. It was just released so the few people here that have it are figuring out how to optimally set it up for the PS4 and Xbox One with chat functionality.


----------



## MQHIFI

HiFiMAN RE0 seems to be unavailable. Is their a newer model or replacement and is it similar?


----------



## conquerator2

mqhifi said:


> HiFiMAN RE0 seems to be unavailable. Is their a newer model or replacement and is it similar?




Well, there are the RE-300, RE-400, RE-600 and the upcoming RE-1000.


----------



## Costcosaurus

I'm curious if there are any worthwhile upgrades to the HD 555 for gaming around the $100-200 price range.
  
 They really only stand out for music and are just nothing short of average when I watch videos or game with them, at least in my opinion.
  
 If I could have that same music listening experience along with better sound for gaming, then that would be ideal.
  
 If anyone has any recommendations, then that would be great. 
  
 I've looked at the DT-990 Pro and am unsure about those. I also have a FiiO E07K amp/DAC that I drive the HD 555 with.


----------



## kashim

stillhart said:


> I'm sure you'll be happy with either.  The AT should be better for pure competitive gaming and the AKG should be better for just about everything else.  But if you will literally use them for nothing other than competitive gaming, get the AT.


 
 ty for the reply...ad700x for pure gaming is better then


----------



## Yethal

peterek said:


>


 
 Is that one of ZombieX adapters?


----------



## PETEREK

No. I make my own cables and adapters 
  
 I have them wired to balanced via a 4 pin mini xlr connector in the cup, that adapter makes them unbalanced and accept a 3.5mm plug, it's only used with the V-Moda Boom Pro really.


----------



## berisha95

Hey, im having trouble deciding on what headphones to get.
 I play COD on the PS4 mostly, and then games such as Counter Strike and League of Legends on the PC. Im currently looking at spending up to £150 on very nice headphones, and then getting the Mod Mic aswell. I have currently been looking at getting the Beyerdynamic DT-990, or Beyerdynamic DT 770, or the Sennheiser HD 518s or the 558s. I am open to other options, just want to try get the best out of gaming. And i am also wondering whether i would need to get a mixamp or not, and which you would recommend for the particular headphones? What type of setup would i have to go for to get the best audio?
  
 Edit: Looking more for competitive gaming side, rather than immersive.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Busta Uppa

Thanks for this amazingly informative post!  It played a huge role in my headphone purchase decision (K721 vs. Philips Fidelio, ultimately settling on Fidelio! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 Now comes the question of an amp. My main setup is taken care of, with everything running through a Marantz receiver.  I just need an amp for my secondary gaming rig, which I use exclusively for "old school" consoles (PS1 and older).  So I just need something that can take stereo RCA output from a basic switch, and let me plug in my headphones with some volume control.  I wouldn't need any USB connectivity or simulated surround processing.  Could anyone recommend a good simple solution for this?  A lot of the stuff I've seen online has way more bells and whistles than I need.


----------



## Stillhart

busta uppa said:


> Thanks for this amazingly informative post!  It played a huge role in my headphone purchase decision (K721 vs. Philips Fidelio, ultimately settling on Fidelio!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 \Any of the non-portable amps listed at the beginning of the guide will work fine:  E09k, O2, Magni, Vali, etc.  Even the portable ones will work with a RCA->1/8" cable (E12, etc).


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> I have read that if I go optical out to a dac/amp I could use my sbx "virtual surround" out of my pc sound card and the surround sound will work through the dac. I am not tied to optical, just something I've read about recently. If you have other recommendations that would be awesome. I am going to have the headphones this week and am going to be without dac/amp, not good lol.



I mean, the SB Z DAC is pretty good and you'd see better returns putting the budget solely towards as best an amp you can afford. I got a tube amp which I like, but people commonly recommend things from M-Stage, iCan, Audio GD, Schiit, and Garage1217. Fans of each of those producers are easily found throughout HeadFi.




kashim said:


> k612 or ad700x for gaming only use?(cs go) and soundblaster z



CS:GO has unrelentingly sharp treble "crack!" sounds from gunfire, the K612 ought to be less fatiguing (and my overall better recommendation), though the ATH-AD700x has a bit more sense of "Air" and soundstage (both have stronger than average soundstage) and might be good with a bit of EQ reducing the treble.

The other thing about CS:GO is that it's not the most prime example of a game that gives a holographic sense of where exactly people are when you can't see them... and firing your own gun wipes out any small awareness cues. Don't spend too much on headohones for CS:GO, it doesn't take much to hit the audio ceiling of what the game has to offer.


----------



## Devil Dog

Looking at picking up Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 600 ohm cans. What is a good Amp/DAC to push these? 
  
 Thanks


----------



## Donnyboy98

devil dog said:


> Looking at picking up Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 600 ohm cans. What is a good Amp/DAC to push these?
> 
> Thanks


 
 Magni 2 and Modi 2, im getting them when i get a good pair of headphones aswell. Most popular headphone for that price range.


----------



## lenroot77

donnyboy98 said:


> Magni 2 and Modi 2, im getting them when i get a good pair of headphones aswell. Most popular headphone for that price range.




You may also consider a vali as I've heard lots of people prefer a tube amp with these cans. I use a fiio E09k with my DT 990s and it sounds pretty good. If u are looking for virtual surround sound u will want a DAC listed on the front page and not a modi.


----------



## Donnyboy98

lenroot77 said:


> You may also consider a vali as I've heard lots of people prefer a tube amp with these cans. I use a fiio E09k with my DT 990s and it sounds pretty good. If u are looking for virtual surround sound u will want a DAC listed on the front page and not a modi.



For gaming I think solid would be better. I've heard surround sound in a headphone makes it sound terrible and there is no true surround sound


----------



## Murder Mike

donnyboy98 said:


> I've heard surround sound in a headphone makes it *sound terrible* and there is no true surround sound


 
  
 That's a very subjective viewpoint. You're right though, it is emulated surround sound using a stereo source in most cases. The front page will give you a better idea with the demo videos and you can form your own opinion then.


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> For gaming I think solid would be better. I've heard surround sound in a headphone makes it sound terrible and there is no true surround sound


 
  
 Did you read the big intro to the guide on the front page?


----------



## inseconds99

lenroot77 said:


> You may also consider a vali as I've heard lots of people prefer a tube amp with these cans. I use a fiio E09k with my DT 990s and it sounds pretty good. If u are looking for virtual surround sound u will want a DAC listed on the front page and not a modi.


 
  
  


donnyboy98 said:


> Magni 2 and Modi 2, im getting them when i get a good pair of headphones aswell. Most popular headphone for that price range.


 
  
  
 I am purchasing the HD 700's soon and I can't decide whether the Vail is my better option, I will not be using virtual surround and I will be gaming in straight stereo. Any comments on this? Should I get the Vali over the Magni 2 for Hd 700's? Or would another amp/dac be a better option?


----------



## pathfindercod

I was able to play some bf4 with my new ad700x headphones this weekend. In comparison to my akg 712 headphones the immersion and sound positioning is better slightly on the 700x's. The 700x's are a little sharper/harsher on the treble and mids. Which I think is what gives it a slight competitive edge over the 712's. The 712 pros are a little smoother and easier on the ears and more comfortable. The ad700's are less comfortable to me because my head is a little wider so it kind pinches down on my ears compared to the 712's. I found myself sliding them around my neckk between map changes..


----------



## ochiba

Search for headset so my wife can't hear my games and I don't have to hear her tv, led me here.
  
 Evidently I am not headset savvy because I am confused big time.  Here is my situation:
  
 Have an alienware pc about 4 years old.  Just bought an Xbox one.  After getting nagged about the game noise in the house, decided I would get a closed wireless headset I could use on both.  The only headset I have ever owned is an alienware pc on ear set I have that are really uncomfortable and I can hear every sound around me which I don't like.  I have a big head and big ears.  I researched and bought the Astro A50's.  Brought it home and connected to my PC and the sound sucked.  Volumme was low.  I have no idea how a "mixer", amp or other add on's work in a system or how to hook them up.  The A50's came with a mixamp (usb, optical to sound card) but evidently didn't do what I needed.  I also don't have a soundcard that supports DDL.  I do have a logitech surround sound system (z550) that is connected to my sound card.  I just bypassed it as the surround sound system connections are to the other jacks in the sound card not the optical port.  I didn't bother to hook the A50's up to the xbox.  I am planning on taking them back anyway because they don't encompass all of my ear.  They sit on my ear lobes (supposed to do this?).  
  
 This has led me to look at the Sennheiser zeros.  Looks like they will fit big head and ears.  They are not wireless, but after looking around, I don't know if I can find a wireless headset that fits my needs.  I wanted wireless because, when I am on the xbox, I am about fourteen feet away from screen.  Of course I am right there on the PC.  Now the next confusion.  The zeros are stereo.  I don't even know if I need stereo or surround.  I play call of duty on the xbox and I read that you should have surround for FPS especially multiplayer.  I play a lot of strategy games on the pc but sometimes play fps.  I may do multi-player on the pc eventually.  So now I don't know what to do.  Hopefully I can get some clarity from you guys.
  
 so, some more input sought:
  
 Can I get a set that will work on both systems?  What components do I need to connect to each system i.e. mixer, amp etc?  Wondering if I'll need the same extras with xbox as I would need with the PC.
 If i can't get a set up for both systems, then what is recommended?
 Is wireless not a good idea?
 Should I be looking at an alternative set up like a headphone, mic, amp etc?
 Seems like i need closed headset in my situation?
 How about the stereo vs surround on pc and xbox? 
 Remember I have big head and ears.
  
 I don't mind spending a little more than I paid for the A50's ($300) but I don't want to waste money.  Especially if I have to get different stuff for the PC and the xbox.   
  
  
 Geez, I just wanted to play games in peace, didn't know it was this involved.  Tell me if it would just be easier to have my wife yelling at me all of the time.  Ha Ha.
  
 Thanks,
 Dan


----------



## Donnyboy98

Depends what you using it for and if you want a tube or a solid if you want a solid get the modi 2 uber which is a upgraded version of modi 2 but I think you need to fit it yourself. So you will probably need someone who has experience with taking amps apart.


----------



## Donnyboy98

If your willing to spend more go for a better amp but I don't know many amps, try asking around on forum or try googling best amp for sennheiser HD 700


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> Depends what you using it for and if you want a tube or a solid if you want a solid get the modi 2 uber which is a upgraded version of modi 2 but I think you need to fit it yourself. So you will probably need someone who has experience with taking amps apart.



Not sure if serious...


----------



## PixelSkills

I have recently returned my Sennheiser G4me One and Astro Mixamp because I was just not satisfied with the quality of either. I tried hooking up the headset to a Schiit Magni and still was not impressed. I want a cinematic experience and honestly the Surround Sound I was not impressed with. The G4me One was not impressive at all, it just seemed extremely flat and I dont see how it gave me any better directional accuracy when hooked to the Mixamp. I want something that will give me a real cinematic experience that when I hear it will drop my Jaw.
  
 I am not incredibly into competitive first person shooters, I mostly play Destiny ATM. What is out there that actually has some bass and still offers the detail I require for directional accuracy. Like I said previously, I really dont care about surround sound as it has never really impressed me at all. Although I was looking at getting the TB Elite 800 and yes I know everyone here hates gaming headsets but I need something with Mic Monitoring.
  
 Any direction would be appreciated!


----------



## pack21

When you have the Turtle Beach Elite 800, tells us if it give you a better experience than your previous setup.

 I truly hope the TB 800 are in this level of demand.


----------



## Evshrug

donnyboy98 said:


> Depends what you using it for and if you want a tube or a solid if you want a solid get the modi 2 uber which is a upgraded version of modi 2 but I think you need to fit it yourself. So you will probably need someone who has experience with taking amps apart.




FYI the Magni is an amp, Vali is an amp, and Modi is a DAC.

So amps can be designed for many different attributes, but tube amps generally are known for having a less edgy, fatiguing presentation than solid-state amps, and they also tend to enhance the sensation of soundstage a little bit. Both are very good gaming qualities. The midrange is also generally perceived as a bit thicker and more present. The Vali in particular doesn't have amazing soundstage properties but the Vali is the warmer/less hard option from Schiit while the Magni is a little more dry sounding and a bit more bite, both are pretty close to eachother and pretty neutral, and Schiit is hardly the only amping option.

I personally went with a DIY tube amp (which I had someone else do for me), ymmv.


----------



## Plexon

Hey, I was interested in buying the 880 premium's until I read your post. You say that the 5-7 oclock accuracy is bad? How bad? To the point where I shouldnt get them if I play CS:GO competitively?
  
 Are there any other headphones not on this list that would go well with my modmic and sound blaster z combo?


----------



## bavinck

pixelskills said:


> I have recently returned my Sennheiser G4me One and Astro Mixamp because I was just not satisfied with the quality of either. I tried hooking up the headset to a Schiit Magni and still was not impressed. I want a cinematic experience and honestly the Surround Sound I was not impressed with. The G4me One was not impressive at all, it just seemed extremely flat and I dont see how it gave me any better directional accuracy when hooked to the Mixamp. I want something that will give me a real cinematic experience that when I hear it will drop my Jaw.
> 
> I am not incredibly into competitive first person shooters, I mostly play Destiny ATM. What is out there that actually has some bass and still offers the detail I require for directional accuracy. Like I said previously, I really dont care about surround sound as it has never really impressed me at all. Although I was looking at getting the TB Elite 800 and yes I know everyone here hates gaming headsets but I need something with Mic Monitoring.
> 
> Any direction would be appreciated!


 
  
 I have the Game One and feel the same with you regarding the mixamp and a cinematic experience. Also, the mixamp rolls off the bass which was sounding distorted to me with the game one and shows like Game of Thrones. I recently bought a Philips X2 and plug it directly into my Yamaha receiver, which provides a simulated surround sound call Silent Cinema. It is a nice affect (not as good as dolby headphone) and good enough for me for movies and cinematic games. The X2, however, is exactly what I needed. Rumbles, explosions, completely emersive for both gaming and movies (out of the mixamp as well when I want to chat). Highly recommend buying the X2 if you want an emersive cinematic experience. YMMV.


----------



## rudyae86

Everyone knows The HD598/G4ME One weren't meant to be an immersive or cinematic headphone/headset. If you want that cinematic feel and that punchy bass while still being able to pinpoint sounds around you, I would say X1/X2 is the headphone. Also, you need to set up the games audio properly when using a Mixamp or any other device you are using.

I use to game in BFn with Headphone surround, which worked but did sounded muddy and stuff. Now I have it set using Home cinema and surround option. This is while using my PC and SB Z though.


----------



## Stillhart

Obviously everyone does NOT know.  Don't be a dick.


----------



## bavinck

rudyae86 said:


> Everyone knows the HD598/G4ME One weren't meant to be an immersive or cinematic headphone


 
 Everyone doesn't know this.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Everyone knows the HD598/G4ME One weren't meant to be an immersive or cinematic headphone/headset.


 
 Are You sure You're talking about the HD598s?


----------



## kashim

stillhart said:


> I'm sure you'll be happy with either.  The AT should be better for pure competitive gaming and the AKG should be better for just about everything else.  But if you will literally use them for nothing other than competitive gaming, get the AT.


 
 u think is better then k612 for gaming?i have foun k612 at 100 euro and ad700x at 150 euro...i need to take one decision...monmey isn t problem because if i need to buy i wanna buy 1 times nad worth ^^...how much ad700x is better in positional audio and soundstage? and how much lose in quality audio?


----------



## kashim

evshrug said:


> I mean, the SB Z DAC is pretty good and you'd see better returns putting the budget solely towards as best an amp you can afford. I got a tube amp which I like, but people commonly recommend things from M-Stage, iCan, Audio GD, Schiit, and Garage1217. Fans of each of those producers are easily found throughout HeadFi.
> CS:GO has unrelentingly sharp treble "crack!" sounds from gunfire, the K612 ought to be less fatiguing (and my overall better recommendation), though the ATH-AD700x has a bit more sense of "Air" and soundstage (both have stronger than average soundstage) and might be good with a bit of EQ reducing the treble.
> 
> The other thing about CS:GO is that it's not the most prime example of a game that gives a holographic sense of where exactly people are when you can't see them... and firing your own gun wipes out any small awareness cues. Don't spend too much on headohones for CS:GO, it doesn't take much to hit the audio ceiling of what the game has to offer.


 
 ok but i play games like bf4 with a better sound system(i think)...i have read a lot of review and comparision but i have some question..between k612 and ad700x
 1)which have better range of audio capture?
 2)which have better positional audio?
 3)which have better comfort?
 4)which are better with soundblaster z soundcard?
 in my country 
 k612 is 135 euro 
 ad700x 150 euro
 i have found used k612 for 100 euro


----------



## inseconds99

Sennheiser HD 700 vs fidelio x2 vs DT 990, for competitive yet immersive gaming. I have till Thursday to make a decision. Any and all help would be appreciated.


----------



## lenroot77

inseconds99 said:


> Sennheiser HD 700 vs fidelio x2 vs DT 990, for competitive yet immersive gaming. I have till Thursday to make a decision. Any and all help would be appreciated.




I don't know much about the hd700 for gaming, but both dt990 and x2 are very solid. I think most people on this forum will tell u the x2 is the winner. I have the dt990s and enjoy them very much. There is a detailed review on the first page. If money is a concern I'm guessing u can find the beyers cheapest of the three.


----------



## inseconds99

lenroot77 said:


> I don't know much about the hd700 for gaming, but both dt990 and x2 are very solid. I think most people on this forum will tell u the x2 is the winner. I have the dt990s and enjoy them very much. There is a detailed review on the first page. If money is a concern I'm guessing u can find the beyers cheapest of the three.




Money is not my concern, having the best is my concern. Oddly enough the dt990's went up $30 since yesterday on Amazon. Wonder why?


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> Obviously everyone does NOT know.  Don't be a dick.


 
 Whoops sorry, I didnt want to mean it like that. I actually wrote those two words in a message to a friend. Thats what happens when you have that messenger with its pop up heads. Sigh. Sorry about that.
  
 I should disable that feature now.
  
 Was typing it on my phone, so yeah, thats why :/


----------



## lenroot77

inseconds99 said:


> Money is not my concern, having the best is my concern. Oddly enough the dt990's went up $30 since yesterday on Amazon. Wonder why?




They are up and down on a daily/ weekly basis. Big price swings on the DT 779,880 and 990's.


----------



## Fleat

lenroot77 said:


> I don't know much about the hd700 for gaming, but both dt990 and x2 are very solid. I think most people on this forum will tell u the x2 is the winner. I have the dt990s and enjoy them very much. There is a detailed review on the first page. If money is a concern I'm guessing u can find the beyers cheapest of the three.


 
 I have the DT990's and the X2, and I find the X2 superior in every way. After using the X2's nearly every night since the end of November, I can definitively say that it was the right upgrade for me. I don't think the DT990 is a bad headphone, but I just don't find the sound signature nearly as appealing as the X2.
  
 As far as competitive gaming, the X2 does a good job but the Sennheiser HD598's provide better positioning. 
  
 Here is a very quick and inprecise break down [Note: more > represents a larger degree of discrepancy between the two]
*Fun Factor*: X2 >>> DT990 > HD598 
*Positioning*: HD598 > X2 >> DT990
*Comfort*: HD598 > DT990 > X2
  
 Unfortunately, I don't have the HD 700 so I can't provide a lot of feedback on those.


----------



## kashim

guys i have this 4 option for gamin 
 ad700x 150 euro
 ad900x 150 euro
 akg k612 100 euro used
 akg k701 160 euro used
 best positional audio
 best sound range 
 comfort


----------



## rudyae86

kashim said:


> guys i have this 4 option for gamin
> ad700x 150 euro
> ad900x 150 euro
> akg k612 100 euro used
> ...


 
 K612, although it requires amping.
  
 The AD700X and AD900X is a hit or miss with comfort because of its wing system. Not sure how much of a difference there is between the both, only thing I remember from reading about a comparison is that the AD900X has a bit more bass presence but dont know by how much though.
  
 If you have money to spare for an amp, I would go with the K612 out of all of those you listed.
  
 Edit: Are you doing competitive gaming? Dont remember if you asked before.


----------



## kashim

rudyae86 said:


> K612, although it requires amping.
> 
> The AD700X and AD900X is a hit or miss with comfort because of its wing system. Not sure how much of a difference there is between the both, only thing I remember from reading about a comparison is that the AD900X has a bit more bass presence but dont know by how much though.
> 
> ...


 
 ty for the reply..i buy it only for gaming 99% competitive fps like battlefield anc cs go 1% gaming single player...no movies no music ^^ and have soundblaster z with 500 ohm dac


----------



## Stillhart

kashim said:


> ty for the reply..i buy it only for gaming 99% competitive fps like battlefield anc cs go 1% gaming single player...no movies no music ^^ and have soundblaster z with 500 ohm dac


 
  
 You got your answer already then.  Why are you still asking?


----------



## kashim

need best positional sound,sound position accuracy around me..need to ear much faster possible from more distance possible and with perfect accuracy in positional audio


----------



## inseconds99

fleat said:


> I have the DT990's and the X2, and I find the X2 superior in every way. After using the X2's nearly every night since the end of November, I can definitively say that it was the right upgrade for me. I don't think the DT990 is a bad headphone, but I just don't find the sound signature nearly as appealing as the X2.
> 
> As far as competitive gaming, the X2 does a good job but the Sennheiser HD598's provide better positioning.
> 
> ...


 
 This is great information, thank you very much. This is the graph I just pulled up from another website comparing the 598 to the 700. I am no expert and maybe someone here can explain this graph in detail but just from what I am looking at the headphones seem very close in there response but then again I don't know much.


----------



## kashim

stillhart said:


> You got your answer already then.  Why are you still asking?


 
 i have read ad700 have better soundstage,positional audio then k612 but can ad900x or k701 doing better?i have understand k612 is best all around and ad700x gaming focused...then in my list which is the best for my needing?i have read ad700 have large soundstage but more eliptical then k612 is real?


----------



## Stillhart

kashim said:


> i have read ad700 have better soundstage,positional audio then k612 but can ad900x or k701 doing better?i have understand k612 is best all around and ad700x gaming focused...then in my list which is the best for my needing?i have read ad700 have large soundstage but more eliptical then k612 is real?


 
  
 You will literally be SUPER happy with any of those.  Stop overthinking it and just get the cheapest one.


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> You got your answer already then.  Why are you still asking?


 

 Whats wrong with asking? He can ask all he wants, its really hard to chose a headphone that will suit anyone's sound preference and comfort, as well as price/budget.
  
 For some of us, its easier to purchase several headphones to see which we like best, for some, it isn't easy.
  

  
 Hope you understand right?


----------



## Stillhart

There's nothing wrong with asking unless you're giving no new information and you're disregarding the answers that have already been given.  
  
 The fact is there's a very thorough guide on page one of this thread that already answered his questions.  It's got all the information you could possibly want on every headphone he's asking about.  His question isn't unique in any way.  Read the guide, pick the best one for your needs.  If you refuse to read the guide AND refuse to accept the answers you're given, why the hell are you in here asking questions?


----------



## kashim

rudyae86 said:


> Whats wrong with asking? He can ask all he wants, its really hard to chose a headphone that will suit anyone's sound preference and comfort, as well as price/budget.
> 
> For some of us, its easier to purchase several headphones to see which we like best, for some, it isn't easy.
> 
> ...


 
 exactly i can t afford an a wrong buy ^^ ty for that reply...i need help from you guys please i m sorry for so much questions ^^


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> There's nothing wrong with asking unless you're giving no new information and you're disregarding the answers that have already been given.
> 
> The fact is there's a very thorough guide on page one of this thread that already answered his questions.  It's got all the information you could possibly want on every headphone he's asking about.  His question isn't unique in any way.  Read the guide, pick the best one for your needs.  If you refuse to read the guide AND refuse to accept the answers you're given, why the hell are you in here asking questions?


 
 I agree with that with every sense of the word, but even then sometimes people will still ask questions regardless of what they have read in the first page. Like you said, its a guide, its a reference in which they can base on what they might like or not, comfort, sound and price wise.
 But there are other things to take into account like amps, mics, cabling, etc etc


----------



## kashim

rudyae86 said:


> I agree with that with every sense of the word, but even then sometimes people will still ask questions regardless of what they have read in the first page. Like you said, its a guide, its a reference in which they can base on what they might like or not, comfort, sound and price wise.
> But there are other things to take into account like amps, mics, cabling, etc etc


 
 wait i have read a guide and i like all real comp headphone in my budget
 ad700x 150 euro
 k701 160 euro used
 q701  out of my range
 k612  100 euro used
 ad900x not in list and not reviewed 150 euro
 i now ask i have found at this price and need to find the best for my use and my needing
 i use 99% 1st person shooter like bf and cs go
 1% for single player games 
 not music
 not film
 i need:
 best range of capture the sound
 best positional audio accuracy possible
 best comfort 
 it s all ^^ for this price which is best headphone for my use?
 i have to buy soundblaster z + a clip mic soon...sbz have 500 ohm amp


----------



## Stillhart

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now...


----------



## rudyae86

kashim said:


> wait i have read a guide and i like all real comp headphone in my budget
> ad700x 150 euro
> k701 160 euro used
> q701  out of my range
> ...


 

 Ok buddy, you are asking basically the same thing over and over again. And I would say again. K612 and get a good amp.
  
 forget about the ad900x, its similar to the ad700x with a slightly bigger soundstage and more noticable low end.

 K701, Its great for competitve gaming but comfort wise, not great.
  
 It comes down to the K612, has great comfort, pretty much great for competitive fps all you need is an amp to bring the best of them.

 Edit: I know you want to get different responses but you will get the same answer.
  
 also, you have a Sound Blaster Z, it has enough juice to drive those K612 very well. Also, use the beamforming mic that comes with the SB Z. I have been using it and people say they hear me loud and clear, have not had any problems at all so far.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now...


 
  
 I feel like you took those a loooooooong time ago, my friend.


----------



## Costcosaurus

costcosaurus said:


> I'm curious if there are any worthwhile upgrades to the HD 555 for gaming around the $100-200 price range.
> 
> They really only stand out for music and are just nothing short of average when I watch videos or game with them, at least in my opinion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Still hasn't been responded to.


----------



## Stillhart

costcosaurus said:


> Still hasn't been responded to.


 
 Sorry I don't know anything about the 555.


----------



## PETEREK

Quote:


costcosaurus said:


> I'm curious if there are any worthwhile upgrades to the HD 555 for gaming around the $100-200 price range.
> 
> They really only stand out for music and are just nothing short of average when I watch videos or game with them, at least in my opinion.
> 
> ...



 I had the 555 and it was DECENT for gaming. The stage was OK but it wasn't the best for imaging things on the map for me in my FPS games. The bass was lacking big time so I never became immersed in the game. 
  
 I used the DT990 for about 7 months and it was excellent. The bass is perfect for FPS games and it did a great job of imaging things on the map for me through sound. They are the best I've heard in a gaming headphone so far. I sold them to recoup some of the money I spent on my T90, which is what I use for gaming now. I personally think the DT990 is even better for gaming than the T90.
  
 EDIT: and this might sound a little odd after I said the DT990 is better for gaming, but I remember the highs of the 555 being very in your face compared to other headphones I've used. I don't know if it was just the frequencies of gun fires that were just emphasized by the 555 drivers or what the case was, but it always sounded like I was shooting my gun fight next to my ears.


----------



## Costcosaurus

stillhart said:


> Sorry I don't know anything about the 555.


 
  
 It doesn't have to be directly compared to.
  
 I'm just looking for recommendations that provide the experience I'm looking for.


----------



## Evshrug

plexon said:


> Hey, I was interested in buying the 880 premium's until I read your post. You say that the 5-7 oclock accuracy is bad? How bad? To the point where I shouldnt get them if I play CS:GO competitively?
> 
> Are there any other headphones not on this list that would go well with my modmic and sound blaster z combo?



Hi, I used to have the DT880 (600 ohm), from using it I'd wager that the rear "hole" is a result of the DT880 having such precise imaging, and here's why.

Most games these days have surround produced for home theaters. Think of a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup... The rear speakers are placed at about 5 and 7 0'clock, no rear center speaker. The DT880 makes that clear.

The DT880 are very comfortable and pretty headphones, I also found them a bit dry and the treble peak was more than my ears could listen to for the time lengths I tend to use headphones. YMMV.




kashim said:


> ok but i play games like bf4 with a better sound system(i think)...i have read a lot of review and comparision but i have some question..between k612 and ad700x
> 1)which have better range of audio capture?
> *K612*
> 2)which have better positional audio?
> ...



*K612 is priced low compared to what you get and the rest of the market. The K612 should cost $200 US, the K701 and it's variants should cost $270, so IMO anything less is a bargain and competes favorably against similarly priced alternatives.*
You're basically asking for a couple mini-reviews... How about, instead, you read reviews that are more in-depth, written with careful consideration after personally listening to the headphone? And, they're already written, basically alread answering your question! Sound's pretty helpful to your situation, right? Here's a link:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-1-4-2015-beyerdynamic-t70-added/0_30#post_7208658

If you want anyone to provide more service for you, you should pay us for our efforts and expenses doing research for you 




inseconds99 said:


> Sennheiser HD 700 vs fidelio x2 vs DT 990, for competitive yet immersive gaming. I have till Thursday to make a decision. Any and all help would be appreciated.



Crazy that HD700 prices have fallen so low that they're in the same price bracket as those others. If the HD700 is close to the sound signature that appeals to you, then it's the obvious choice among those others on grounds of sheer proficiency.




axelcloris said:


> I feel like you took those a loooooooong time ago, my friend.



They make those by extracting chemicals from my brain, you know. You're welcome! ^_^




costcosaurus said:


> Still hasn't been responded to.



You're basically asking for a couple mini-reviews... How about, instead, you read reviews that are more in-depth, written with careful consideration after personally listening to the headphone? And, they're already written, basically alread answering your question! Sound's pretty helpful to your situation, right? Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-1-4-2015-beyerdynamic-t70-added/0_30#post_7208658

You're welcome!


----------



## Stillhart

costcosaurus said:


> It doesn't have to be directly compared to.
> 
> I'm just looking for recommendations that provide the experience I'm looking for.


 
  
 I found the DT990 treble to be painfully bright.  I'd just get a K612 and call it a day.


----------



## rudyae86

Lol Evshrug's, you should put yourself on repeat for situations like the ones given in your post.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Lol Evshrug's, you should put yourself on repeat for situations like the ones given in your post.



You're basically asking for a couple mini-reviews... How about, instead, you read reviews that are more in-depth, written with careful consideration after personally listening to the headphone? And, they're already written, basically alread answering your question! Sound's pretty helpful to your situation, right? Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-1-4-2015-beyerdynamic-t70-added/0_30#post_7208658

(LOL)
[Video]http://youtu.be/nn2FB1P_Mn8[/Video]


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> You're basically asking for a couple mini-reviews... How about, instead, you read reviews that are more in-depth, written with careful consideration after personally listening to the headphone? And, they're already written, basically alread answering your question! Sound's pretty helpful to your situation, right? Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-update-1-4-2015-beyerdynamic-t70-added/0_30#post_7208658
> 
> (LOL)


----------



## lenroot77

Evs cleaning house!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of cleaning house...anyone in the market for an MA900?
  
 It doesn't get talked about much anymore, maybe because of the discontinuation.


----------



## High Fidelity

Today I used my Astro Mixamp 2014 + Schiit Magni 2 Uber + AKG K7XX for the first time with my modmic 4.0. This is on the Xbox One. I kept getting a crackle/pop sound when people would start speaking, both in game chat and party chat. Very annoying. I initially had the mixamp at 3/4 volume and game/chat balance on the mixamp at 1-2 o'clock. The overall volume was low-to-mid. Decreasing the master volume on the mixamp to 1/2 volume and increasing the volume on the Magni 2 Uber seemed to help, but the crackle/pop was still present. 
  
 Overall the game sound wasn't that pleasant when chat was mixed in. When I was using the K7XX w/o the modmic I plugged the Monoprice 1.5ft Premium 3.5mm Stereo Male to 2RCA Male cable* *directly into the mixamp w/o the y-adapter. Game sound was much better and I didn't to deal with chat crackle/pop.
  
 Any idea what's causing the crackle/pop noise?


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> Today I used my Astro Mixamp 2014 + Schiit Magni 2 Uber + AKG K7XX for the first time with my modmic 4.0. This is on the Xbox One. I kept getting a crackle/pop sound when people would start speaking, both in game chat and party chat. Very annoying. I initially had the mixamp at 3/4 volume and game/chat balance on the mixamp at 1-2 o'clock. The overall volume was low-to-mid. Decreasing the master volume on the mixamp to 1/2 volume and increasing the volume on the Magni 2 Uber seemed to help, but the crackle/pop was still present.
> 
> Overall the game sound wasn't that pleasant when chat was mixed in. When I was using the K7XX w/o the modmic I plugged the Monoprice 1.5ft Premium 3.5mm Stereo Male to 2RCA Male cable* *directly into the mixamp w/o the y-adapter. Game sound was much better and I didn't to deal with chat crackle/pop.
> 
> Any idea what's causing the crackle/pop noise?


 
  
 Have you updated the firmware on the Mixamp?  The chat crackle was a fairly high-profile problem when the Xbone was first released and Astro fixed it with a firmware update.


----------



## High Fidelity

I bought the mixamp 2014 about a month ago. I updated the firmware straight away.
  
 I was hoping that getting new headphones and an amp would be an easy transition. I wasn't expecting the crackling, popping static. I will be going back and forth between my old setup (mixamp 2014 + AD700 + modmic 4.0) and new setup (mixamp 2014 + Magni 2 Uber + K7XX + modmic 4.0) to see if the issue is present with both. I tried briefly with the old setup and didn't notice it, but I wasn't really focused because I was immersed in gameplay. If it was there in the old setup I didn't notice it. Maybe the new setup, with the more revealing K7XX and more amping, is making it stand out. I dont' know. 
  
 Hopefully with troubleshooting on my end and help here I can get it sorted. Thanks.


----------



## kashim

evshrug said:


> Hi, I used to have the DT880 (600 ohm), from using it I'd wager that the rear "hole" is a result of the DT880 having such precise imaging, and here's why.
> 
> Most games these days have surround produced for home theaters. Think of a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setup... The rear speakers are placed at about 5 and 7 0'clock, no rear center speaker. The DT880 makes that clear.
> 
> ...


 
 ty for the reply my friend


----------



## martin vegas

http://amazon.co.uk/dp/B005OPLG0O/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_asp_fiZhI.0VZXG6V I ordered this monitor today for my ps4 I just hope it doesn't bleach games out like my syncmaster does!


----------



## Phukka

Hi MLE and thanks for your guide!
  
 After reading it I went and bought a Sound Blaster Z (All I had in my budget) and the AKG K701's. However, I'm a total novice and need spoon feeding how to set them up using Pro Studio or if I need to get any other software.
  
 Not sure you have used the SB Z control panel, but if so can you let me know what settings perhaps?
  
*SBX Pro Studio* - Default?
*Surround *-  65
*Crystalizer *- 65
*Bass *- 50
  
 Worth using Scout Mode in-game?
  
*Speakers/Headphones* - Headphones
  
*Cinematic *- What's the difference with no Encoder, DDL or DTS?
  
*Mixer *- Default
  
*Equalizer *- Off
  
*Play stereo mix to digital output* - Off

 Thanks,
 Guy


----------



## bigbeard

Hi Phukka; I have a SBZ and i will give you a hand here. Personally, i keep the surround and cystalizer at default settings, and turn the bass off. Bass my be nice for movies, but may make games with lots of explosions/war sounds too bassy. The preference is up to you. When a lot of people hear extra bass, we automatically think it sounds better. 
  
 I do not use scout mode - i feel like it thins out sound too much. Using crystalizer for games should be sufficient. 
 I do not use any cinematic features (I actually do not even have that in my control panel, in the latest driver/software version of SBZ/control panel)
  
 Yes, SBX should be set to headphones when using them. Make should you click the windows speaker icon and go to playback devices, and under speakers/SBZ, configure windows for a 5.1 setup with full range speakers, for virtual surround to work correctly in gaming.
  
 In games, always select 5.1 or surround sound for in game audio.
  
 Play stereo mix is checked for me, but that is because i allow my SBZ to process virtual surround, then send that info through optical out to my Amp and DAC. If you are not using any external Amp/DAC, then you do not check this. 
  
 When listening to music, i would configure windows to stereo, and disable SBX studio. For movies, its your choice, depending on what you like. Virtual surround is preferable to me.


----------



## Phukka

bigbeard said:


> Hi Phukka; I have a SBZ and i will give you a hand here. Personally, i keep the surround and cystalizer at default settings, and turn the bass off. Bass my be nice for movies, but may make games with lots of explosions/war sounds too bassy. The preference is up to you. When a lot of people hear extra bass, we automatically think it sounds better.
> 
> I do not use scout mode - i feel like it thins out sound too much. Using crystalizer for games should be sufficient.
> I do not use any cinematic features (I actually do not even have that in my control panel, in the latest driver/software version of SBZ/control panel)
> ...


 
  
 I read that for gaming keep the Surround below 25% - As to why, I'm not sure. It's at 20% now and it's really clear in-game as to where footsteps are. I have unchecked Crystaliser and Bass, should I check them both and turn bass down to 10-20% perhaps?
  
 I read on another thread, where I can't remember. It said for CS:GO to keep it at 5.1 in-game and to use "snd_legacy_surround 1" in an autoexec, whether that's working I've no clue.
  
 I will try Scout Mode, but honestly, the headphones without sound amazing and I have only played a chaotic DM a few times. I hear WAY to many footsteps, explosions, gunfire, spawns that my head actually hurts! 
  
 Thanks for the help!


----------



## Stillhart

phukka said:


> I read that for gaming keep the Surround below 25% - As to why, I'm not sure. It's at 20% now and it's really clear in-game as to where footsteps are. I have unchecked Crystaliser and Bass, should I check them both and turn bass down to 10-20% perhaps?
> 
> I read on another thread, where I can't remember. It said for CS:GO to keep it at 5.1 in-game and to use "snd_legacy_surround 1" in an autoexec, whether that's working I've no clue.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Honestly, you should just experiment and see what works for you.  I tend to keep my surround at 67% and everything else off.  I have my music player set to use WASPI exclusive mode so it bypasses the surround processing (thus removing the need for me to change the settings constantly).
  
 Play with the setting and see what YOU like.  If there were one "best" setting, they wouldn't include a way to change them.


----------



## mikaveli06

Question.  I have yamaha receiver with dsp and ad700 so i get the surround sound.  If i were to purchase the Turtle Beach 800s, do i need a mix-amp or the turtle beach version, or will i get the surround wirelessly from the stand that hooks up optical from ps4, no other items needed?  Im deciding between getting the Audio Technica Gaming set and just going wired thru receiver or preferably the Turtle Beach and being wireless.


----------



## Donnyboy98

mikaveli06 said:


> Question.  I have yamaha receiver with dsp and ad700 so i get the surround sound.  If i were to purchase the Turtle Beach 800s, do i need a mix-amp or the turtle beach version, or will i get the surround wirelessly from the stand that hooks up optical from ps4, no other items needed?  Im deciding between getting the Audio Technica Gaming set and just going wired thru receiver or preferably the Turtle Beach and being wireless.



Me and many other people would suggest you to not get any headphones made for gaming, get a good pair of headphones like the beyerdynamic DT 990 pro and a modmic and it will be much better. Surround sound makes games sound worse than normal, only way to get true 5.1 or 7.1 is by having sperate speakers dotted around your room. Idk if it will work with the ps4 or if it will it might need something alone side, you will have to look into that.


----------



## Yethal

donnyboy98 said:


> mikaveli06 said:
> 
> 
> > Question.  I have yamaha receiver with dsp and ad700 so i get the surround sound.  If i were to purchase the Turtle Beach 800s, do i need a mix-amp or the turtle beach version, or will i get the surround wirelessly from the stand that hooks up optical from ps4, no other items needed?  Im deciding between getting the Audio Technica Gaming set and just going wired thru receiver or preferably the Turtle Beach and being wireless.
> ...


 
 What are You talking about? This entire thread is dedicated to virtual surround gaming and judging by the amount of replies it most certainly does not sound worse with virtual surround.


----------



## mikaveli06

yethal said:


> What are You talking about? This entire thread is dedicated to virtual surround gaming and judging by the amount of replies it most certainly does not sound worse with virtual surround.


 
 i think he was saying use regular headphones with a mixamp or DSP device instead of Turtle Beach/Astro etc


----------



## bavinck

donnyboy98 said:


> Surround sound makes games sound worse than normal


 
 Dude, you are so out to lunch on this comment I am not sure if you are joking or trying to stir the pot. Read this thread and see how wrong this statement is....


----------



## Donnyboy98

yethal said:


> What are You talking about? This entire thread is dedicated to virtual surround gaming and judging by the amount of replies it most certainly does not sound worse with virtual surround.


 

 Have you noticed how he doesnt rate the funness on the mix amps and most of the "gaming" headphones has a rating of mediocre.


----------



## bavinck

donnyboy98 said:


> Have you noticed how he doesnt rate the funness on the mix amps and most of the "gaming" headphones has a rating of mediocre.


 
 Ya, because funness and qualities for gaming are different.


----------



## Donnyboy98

bavinck said:


> Ya, because funness and qualities for gaming are different.


 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgTnJ3JQQ0E
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD-M1F6L4g


----------



## lenroot77

mikaveli06 said:


> Question.  I have yamaha receiver with dsp and ad700 so i get the surround sound.  If i were to purchase the Turtle Beach 800s, do i need a mix-amp or the turtle beach version, or will i get the surround wirelessly from the stand that hooks up optical from ps4, no other items needed?  Im deciding between getting the Audio Technica Gaming set and just going wired thru receiver or preferably the Turtle Beach and being wireless.




Your ad700 will sound better than any turtle beaches, if u do not like how they sound I'd recommend checking out some cans with a different sound signature. If u are happy with your silent cinema on your Yamaha, just by a syba USB adapter and a clip on mic. You will be all set for 20 bucks.


----------



## mikaveli06

With the silent cinema on the yamaha, would i be able to use a mic like the adg-1? Im pretty sure i cant, however i rarely use chat anyways.  Maybe i will get Philips X2 (liked the 1st version i had) with a v-moda boompro mic.  Then i have headphones for music listening too.  I will keep eye on ebay for mix amp for those times i may want to use chat.


----------



## mikaveli06

bavinck said:


> I have the Game One and feel the same with you regarding the mixamp and a cinematic experience. Also, the mixamp rolls off the bass which was sounding distorted to me with the game one and shows like Game of Thrones. I recently bought a Philips X2 and plug it directly into my Yamaha receiver, which provides a simulated surround sound call Silent Cinema. It is a nice affect (not as good as dolby headphone) and good enough for me for movies and cinematic games. The X2, however, is exactly what I needed. Rumbles, explosions, completely emersive for both gaming and movies (out of the mixamp as well when I want to chat). Highly recommend buying the X2 if you want an emersive cinematic experience. YMMV.


 
 i think this is exact route im going to go


----------



## inseconds99

namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of cleaning house...anyone in the market for an MA900?
> 
> It doesn't get talked about much anymore, maybe because of the discontinuation.


 
 I am, PM me.


----------



## ultron

What do you guys think of using the DT770s with some EQ (equalizer apo) to lower the bass when "competitive" gaming? Seems like a winner based off Madlust's review.  I'm trying to find a comfortable closed-back to compliment my K7XX's for gaming when it's noisy and they seem to fit the bill if EQ works out.
  
 Are there any other headphones that I should be looking at? I'd like something with:
 -Spacious circumaural
 -Good positional accuracy
 -Good isolation
 -Light to medium weight, Mad dogs are just too heavy and wide(annoying when reclining) for me. Basically an all-day headphone
 -At least somewhat close to neutral, with good sub-bass extension for when not tryharding in a video game
 -Preferably $300 USD or less


----------



## inseconds99

ultron said:


> What do you guys think of using the DT770s with some EQ (equalizer apo) to lower the bass when "competitive" gaming? Seems like a winner based off Madlust's review.  I'm trying to find a comfortable closed-back to compliment my K7XX's for gaming when it's noisy and they seem to fit the bill if EQ works out.
> 
> Are there any other headphones that I should be looking at? I'd like something with:
> -Spacious circumaural
> ...


 
 Mr. Speaker 3.2 seems like the better option from everything I've read.


----------



## ultron

inseconds99 said:


> Mr. Speaker 3.2 seems like the better option from everything I've read.


 

 Have those, they're just not working out for me in the comfort department(weight and overall bulk). I'll generally opt to use the K7XX's and crank the volume louder than I should.


----------



## inseconds99

ultron said:


> Have those, they're just not working out for me in the comfort department(weight and overall bulk). I'll generally opt to use the K7XX's and crank the volume louder than I should.


 
 Not much else in the way of closed back except for AKG k550 which I owned, very hard to get a good seal and I personally hated the sound signature. Also the Beyerdynamic t70's which I have not heard but from what MLE said they are very good for gaming.


----------



## lenroot77

ultron said:


> What do you guys think of using the DT770s with some EQ (equalizer apo) to lower the bass when "competitive" gaming? Seems like a winner based off Madlust's review.  I'm trying to find a comfortable closed-back to compliment my K7XX's for gaming when it's noisy and they seem to fit the bill if EQ works out.
> 
> Are there any other headphones that I should be looking at? I'd like something with:
> -Spacious circumaural
> ...




Maybe the ATH-A700/900's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the Creative devices, like Stillhart, I recommend turning *EVERYTHING* OFF except for surround. I like mine at about 75-80% on my internal Recond 3Di.

Bass, crystallizer, and whatnot are just afterthought EQs that deliberately alter the headphone's SQ. I don't like to touch my headphone's sound with the exception of adding virtual surround.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> For the Creative devices, like Stillhart, I recommend turning *EVERYTHING* OFF except for surround. I like mine at about 75-80% on my internal Recond 3Di.
> 
> Bass, crystallizer, and whatnot are just afterthought EQs that deliberately alter the headphone's SQ. I don't like to touch my headphone's sound with the exception of adding virtual surround.


 
 What about windows setting/in game settings? Such as BF4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In game settings should always be something akin to Home Theater, because the surround feature is basically like accepting a multi speaker setup and converting it for headphone surround. You do NOT want to set in game sound to headphones or anything remotely like that. it should be Home Theater or whatever is closest to that.

Unless you are absolutely not digging a headphone's own sound, absolutely no EQ should be used to get a proper sound from your headphones, IMHO. Crystallizer, bass, etc, etc. Turn that stuff off.


----------



## ultron

inseconds99 said:


> Not much else in the way of closed back except for AKG k550 which I owned, very hard to get a good seal and I personally hated the sound signature. Also the Beyerdynamic t70's which I have not heard but from what MLE said they are very good for gaming.


 

 The Beyers look pretty nice for competitive gaming, not sure I'd like how it sounds for general use though, especially since I'd be frequently switching between the K7XXs.  All Beyerdynamics certainly look very comfortable, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Turning the surround so low to 20% is basically like playing nearly in stereo, and makes it moot. Only the duhards that absolutely do not want to alter anything should ever be that low. If you want surround, then UTILIZE it. 67% is bare minimum, IMHO.


----------



## Stillhart

ultron said:


> What do you guys think of using the DT770s with some EQ (equalizer apo) to lower the bass when "competitive" gaming? Seems like a winner based off Madlust's review.  I'm trying to find a comfortable closed-back to compliment my K7XX's for gaming when it's noisy and they seem to fit the bill if EQ works out.
> 
> Are there any other headphones that I should be looking at? I'd like something with:
> -Spacious circumaural
> ...


 
  
 I recommend the SoundMAGIC HP100.


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> What about windows setting/in game settings? Such as BF4?


 
 Im using Home Cinema or Home Theater or whatever its called and Surround. This is what Evshrug told me and let me tell you, it works wonderfully and the best compared to the other options. Dont use Headphone/Surround or else everything will sound muddy, will make it harder to distinguish sounds or seperate sounds, even if you have the surround option on.
  
 In the SB Z control panel, I left it at 67%. I have tried playing around with it up to 76% and I still cant tell the difference but Im sure anything past 76%, everything becomes a bit more intimate, closer, immersive. It really depends on what you like or not like. I cant honestly agree to anyone saying that 67% percent or 70% or 33% percent or whatever number people are putting out, is the best for either competitive fps. I think it really depends on what the headphone can do depending on the headphones merits.
  
 VSS can make crappy headphones sound better but not the best...and so on and so on...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only went down from 100%, because for some reason, I started getting dialogue echo on Dragon Age Inquisition. Lowered it to 80%, and that's gone. Note: I'm on THX Tru Studio, not SBX, though fairly sure Creative Control panel for SBX is very much the same as THX Tru Studio.


----------



## High Fidelity

For those using an Astro Mixamp with another amp on the Xbox One, where are you setting the Mixamp master volume at? I initially set mine a little more than 3/4, but I get some crackling, popping static in party/game chat, usually when people first start a sentence. Lowering the Mixamp volume a little and increasing the Magni 2 Uber volume helps quite a bit, but I would like to know the cause.
  
 I'm also using the MS headset adapter with the left side game/chat balance at max volume for chat and the right side volume (+/-) at max. I tried skewing the game/chat volume more toward game, but then I can't hear people as well and game audio sounds distorted.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I only went down from 100%, because for some reason, I started getting dialogue echo on Dragon Age Inquisition. Lowered it to 80%, and that's gone. Note: I'm on THX Tru Studio, not SBX, though fairly sure Creative Control panel for SBX is very much the same as THX Tru Studio.


 
  
 When did you get a Recon?  I thought you preferred DH...
  


high fidelity said:


> For those using an Astro Mixamp with another amp on the Xbox One, where are you setting the Mixamp master volume at? I initially set mine a little more than 3/4, but I get some crackling, popping static in party/game chat, usually when people first start a sentence. Lowering the Mixamp volume a little and increasing the Magni 2 Uber volume helps quite a bit, but I would like to know the cause.
> 
> I'm also using the MS headset adapter with the left side game/chat balance at max volume for chat and the right side volume (+/-) at max. I tried skewing the game/chat volume more toward game, but then I can't hear people as well and game audio sounds distorted.


 
  
 I keep volume on the controller maxed and I keep the volume on the Mixamp as low as possible.  That thing is noisy as hell and double amping the noise makes it worse.  The quieter you keep it, the less hiss you're double-amping.
  
 BTW, I have no issue with crackling noise, but I'm using a 5.8.  Be sure to update the software on the controller (should do automagically, but doesn't hurt to force a manual check just in case) and the firmware on your Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> When did you get a Recon?  I thought you preferred DH...




My laptop has a built in Recon 3Di. When I game on Pc and I'm away from home, I just connected my headphones directly to the laptop. THX TS is fine enough. Sure, I prefer DH, but it's not like THX is far behind. They're both perfectly capable for me.

Also, I have no idea where my Xonar U3 went. I think I lost it when I moved out of my apartment. Too lazy to lug that around and constantly hook it up to my laptop when I'm on the go, anyways.


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> When did you get a Recon?  I thought you preferred DH...
> 
> 
> I keep volume on the controller maxed and I keep the volume on the Mixamp as low as possible.  That thing is noisy as hell and double amping the noise makes it worse.  The quieter you keep it, the less hiss you're double-amping.
> ...


 
 Yeah, seems like the extra power is amplifying any unpleasant noise. It might have been present before, with the Mixamp alone, but I didn't notice it. 
  
 I checked earlier to see if my controller and adapter were up to date and both showed "No update available". 
  
 I'll take your suggestion to lower the volume on the Mixamp. It's not like I'm hurting for power. With the Mixamp at 3/4 volume I set the Magni 2 Uber at ~9 o'clock without a mic and ~12 o'clock with a mic. The only reason I set it a 3/4 volume was because the external amp guide on the first page stated "You would then max out or nearly max out the 'Mixamp' on the master volume, and control the volume with the audiophile amp."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for Mixamp hiss, I'm pretty damn certain the hiss isn't dependent on Mixamp volume, and regardless of whether you reach a certain decibel level with the Mixamp alone or double amped, you'll get the same amount of hiss. You get more hiss with an attached amp, because you are getting a louder decibel level in general vs Mixamp alone (hence why you're probably double amping in the first place).

I'm pretty sure lowering your Mixamp volume is actually reducing your bit resolution data being sent to your other amp anyways... so I suggest actually having the Mixamp near max. Not completely max (as it tends to distort), but like 80%. You're getting lower audio fidelity by lowering the Mixamp volume, IIRC.

This is assuming that your attached amp doesn't impart it's own hiss.


----------



## High Fidelity

mad lust envy said:


> As for Mixamp hiss, I'm pretty damn certain the hiss isn't dependent on Mixamp volume, and regardless of whether you reach a certain DB level with the Mixamp alone or double amped, you'll get the same amount of hiss. You get more hiss with an attached amp, because you are getting a louder decibel level in general vs Mixamp alone.


 
  
Not sure when you say hiss if it's the same as what I describe as crackling, popping. I only hear it in party/game chat when someone is talking, though it is not present the entire time someone is talking. If no one is talking or I'm not in chat everything sounds fine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then that has nothing to do with the headphone amp section, but something to do with the chat capability. So many factors that can cause problems there, all which I'm not well versed in.

I ws just referring to the Mixamp alone vs double amped hiss, which people seem to think has more with an attached amp. I'm here to say that there isn't 'more' if you were to have the same exact volume level. Double amping has more hiss simply because you're pushing the volume higher than the volume alone on the Mixamp, so of course there is gonna be more hiss. The hiss is embedded into the signal once it reaches the Mixamp. Lowering the volume on the Mixamp isn't going to reduce hiss to your other amp. In essence, you're just killing bit resolution and making audio quality worse. (though I'm not clear on this, as double amping is usually taboo in the headphone world). I'd like to know how lowering the first amp's volume differs from lowering software volume. I may be completely wrong there and lowering the first amp's volume may not be detrimental to SQ.

Pretty sure, as long as the first amp sends out at LEAST a line level signal to the second amp, you're good. Problem is, what is line level from an amped signal, i.e. from the Mixamp? 20% volume, 50%, 100%? Just don't know. Just, a line level from a dac is very quiet, but if line level was AMPED, the loudness from line level has changed once it hits the (mix)AMP. These are things that I desperately need answered.

In any case, it's been awhile since I've tested the hiss between the two, but I'm pretty convinced that hiss remains at the same amount of loudness per decibel with or without an attached amp, as long as the attached amp doesn't add it's own hiss.

I prefer to err on the side of caution and keep my volume closer to max out of the Mixamp to ensure I'm sending out as much bit data as possible to the next amp.


----------



## High Fidelity

mad lust envy said:


> Then that has nothing to do with the headphone amp section, but something to do with the chat capability. So many factors that can cause problems there, all which I'm not well versed in.
> 
> I ws just referring to the Mixamp alone vs double amped hiss, which people seem to think has more with an attached amp. I'm here to say that there isn't 'more' if you were to have the same exact volume level. Double amping has more hiss simply because you're pushing the volume higher than the volume alone on the Mixamp, so of course there is gonna be more hiss. The hiss is embedded into the signal once it reaches the Mixamp. Lowering the volume on the Mixamp isn't going to reduce hiss to your other amp. In essence, you're just killing bit resolution and making audio quality worse. (though I'm not clear on this, as double amping is usually taboo in the headphone world). I'd like to know how lowering the first amp's volume differs from lowering software volume. I may be completely wrong there and lowering the first amp's volume may not be detrimental to SQ.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the detailed explanation.
  
 The Schiit Magni 2 Uber is my first headphone amp, if I don't count the Mixamp. With the Mixamp + AD700 + Modmic + MS adapter and now the Mixamp + Uber + K7XX + Modmic + MS adapter, and the way MS implemented game/chat on the Xbox One, it's been tough getting game/chat to balance properly. Was so much easier and better sounding on the 360. 
  
 When you say "Double amping has more hiss simply because you're pushing the volume higher than the volume alone on the Mixamp, so of course there is gonna be more hiss", do you mean the act of increasing the volume knobs regardless of the actual db volume creates more hiss? So for example, with the the Mixamp + external amp, if the volume was at 60 db, with the Mixamp at 3 o'clock and the external amp at 12 o'clock, would that create more hiss than the Mixamp alone at 60 db with the volume knob at 10 o'clock, simply because the volume knob is higher in the first scenario?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I guess one can simply compare using a standard DAC to an amp and seeing what level you prefer the volume at as the first test, then try again by going from a dac to an amp to another amp, and seeing how far in volume the first amp has to be to match the volume level from the first test.

A simpler example of what I'm confused about: (This is seriously what i should've started the topic with. Sorry, it's really late at the moment)

Step 1: Fiio E17 dac only - line out to Schiit Vali - volume pot at about 40% to hit my sweet spot

vs

Step: 2 Fiio E17 - headphone jack out to Schiit Vali - certain volume setting on the E17 = same volume as step 1.

I assume: Would going LOWER in volume on the E17 for step 2 (meaning sending out a lower than line level signal volume from step 1) = losing source audio fidelity?

I'm well aware that bit data is digital, and my question is almost entirely analog related.

So... since the first amp stage already has all the data from the DAC... the second amp can retain it, regardless of the first amp's volume level? I always thought going too low in volume from the first amp would lose some data. Now that I think about it... I feel really stupid.

I may have been completely wrong in this regard, and Mixamp volume does not impact the source information being sent to the second amp.

This is why I stick to the easy things: the subjective stuff. :rolleyes:


----------



## Change is Good

ultron said:


> What do you guys think of using the DT770s with some EQ (equalizer apo) to lower the bass when "competitive" gaming? Seems like a winner based off Madlust's review.  I'm trying to find a comfortable closed-back to compliment my K7XX's for gaming when it's noisy and they seem to fit the bill if EQ works out.
> 
> Are there any other headphones that I should be looking at? I'd like something with:
> -Spacious circumaural
> ...




I would say the Shure SRH1540, but with your budget, go for the SoundMAGIC HP100/150. You will be very happy


----------



## Evshrug

Mad and High Fidelity,
The question of "What volume to use while double-amping" has certainly been a matter of mild debate for a long time. Using a pre-amp and a power amp was commonplace in speaker setups, in today's headphone example the Mixamp is both a DAC (and DSP) as well as pre-amp, and the Vali/Magni are power amps. I'll be honest, I still have my Mixamp but it's been gathering dust for over half a year, so I can't remember from testing what setting produces the most noise. IIRC, both of you are right about noise. The mixamp imparts a certain constant level of noise (Mad's suspicion), I know that's at least true, but as you get closer to the Mixamp's max volume, there may be a point where the noise:signal ratio starts to rise a bit more. I'm not completely sure the second condition is present, but regardless if I was desiring wireless I accepted the consequence of noise, usually not even bothering with a second amp because the Mixamp 5.8 with chat was enough wires near my body already.

If the Mixamp uses a digital volume control, then low-settings reduces bit depth. If the Mixamp is attenuating volume at the analogue stage, then you mostly just have to worry about chat imbalance near the lowest volumes.

Chico had a neat method for finding the line-out volume of an amp, I forgot how it goes but Mad's idea is logical and should work.


----------



## PixelSkills

So i have $350 to spend, should i get the elite 800 or the phillips x2 with just a simple usb soundcard for the ps4?


----------



## Donnyboy98

pixelskills said:


> So i have $350 to spend, should i get the elite 800 or the phillips x2 with just a simple usb soundcard for the ps4?



Philips X2 by far a better headphone alround


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My X2 review is gonna be awhile, but I'll just say the X2 is a stellar all rounder, and will be fantastic for both fun and competitive (leaning a little more on fun, but not as heavily tilted as the X1).


----------



## PixelSkills

mad lust envy said:


> My X2 review is gonna be awhile, but I'll just say the X2 is a stellar all rounder, and will be fantastic for both fun and competitive (leaning a little more on fun, but not as heavily tilted as the X1).




How hard are they to drive? I really dont care much about surround sound but I cant afford a dedicated dac amp. Would a simple usb device like a creative xi-fi go?


----------



## bavinck

X2 easy to drive, anything can drive them. They are awesome.


----------



## ultron

stillhart said:


> I recommend the SoundMAGIC HP100.


 
   Quote:


lenroot77 said:


> Maybe the ATH-A700/900's?


 
   Quote:


change is good said:


> I would say the Shure SRH1540, but with your budget, go for the SoundMAGIC HP100/150. You will be very happy


 

 I'll look into the A700X's and HP100's, thanks guys.


----------



## pack21

namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of cleaning house...anyone in the market for an MA900?
> 
> It doesn't get talked about much anymore, maybe because of the discontinuation.




Cleaning the house is speaking MA900? I find funny that comment.  

 I have some more expensive equipment than MA900, and even playing with the AKG K702 ....i have more pleasure and performance playing with MA900 at competitive level. BF 4 Killer machine with MA900 + Mixamp + BenQ LCD. 

Mids, clean details, balanced bass and that fuc** dreaming airy pinpoint soundstage kills competition.


----------



## Evshrug

pack21 said:


> Cleaning the house is speaking MA900? I find funny that comment.
> 
> I have some more expensive equipment than MA900, and even playing with the AKG K702 ....i have more pleasure and performance playing with MA900 at competitive level. BF 4 Killer machine with MA900 + Mixamp + BenQ LCD.
> 
> Mids, clean details, balanced bass and that fuc** dreaming airy pinpoint soundstage kills competition.




Part of the reason it reads funny may be due to the order that words are placed (the grammar) in different languages... But it is funny that "cleaning house" makes Nameless think of his MA900. 

I liked the MA900 too when I heard them, but unfortunately I didn't love them. I wonder why he's selling them, since he did love them?


@NamelessPFG,
I think it got all the talk and hype because it was a unique headphone and a humongous bargain at $160, but then Sony stopped making them and the increased demand (I assume) drove the price up $100 more, not such a bargain anymore. Regardless of price it certainly is a unique sounding and lightweight headphone, why don't you need it anymore? Did you get back into your Stax?


----------



## Vader2k

X7 on Amazon for $279.99!!!


----------



## inseconds99

vader2k said:


> X7 on Amazon for $279.99!!!




Just ordered mine, had it on my wish list and seen the price drop. The price drop just answered my question I've been asking on this forum for weeks on what dac/amp to get. This wasn't really on my radar as it was too expensive. Now with that huge price drop. I ordered it and it will be here by Wednesday. Hopefully I made the right decision as I ordered this over an O2/odac.


----------



## lenroot77

Just ordered mine too! Can't wait!


----------



## Toxos

vader2k said:


> X7 on Amazon for $279.99!!!


 
 GOING TO SPEND 279.99 ON SOMETHING BRB
  
 EDIT: Ok, now I can rest easy.. I did one-day shipping since it was only $7. X*7*.. one-day shipping for *7* bucks and its for 2*7*9.99... I would say this was a jackpot huehuehue.


----------



## pack21

That's not fair for European consumers.

 Happy for you guys, sad for myself.


----------



## Vader2k

inseconds99 said:


> Just ordered mine, had it on my wish list and seen the price drop. The price drop just answered my question I've been asking on this forum for weeks on what dac/amp to get. This wasn't really on my radar as it was too expensive. Now with that huge price drop. I ordered it and it will be here by Wednesday. Hopefully I made the right decision as I ordered this over an O2/odac.


 
  
 Yep, I saw your post in Ev's thread and felt the info needed to be shared over here too!


----------



## inseconds99

vader2k said:


> Yep, I saw your post in Ev's thread and felt the info needed to be shared over here too!




Sounds good to me, let's get this thing into more hands. I hope it is good because like I said I was going to order a jds labs O2/odac tonight at some point.


----------



## Stillhart

toxos said:


> GOING TO SPEND 279.99 ON SOMETHING BRB
> 
> EDIT: Ok, now I can rest easy.. I did one-day shipping since it was only $7. X*7*.. one-day shipping for *7* bucks and its for 2*7*9.99... I would say this was a jackpot huehuehue.


 
  
 Half Life 3 confirmed!


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Part of the reason it reads funny may be due to the order that words are placed (the grammar) in different languages... But it is funny that "cleaning house" makes Nameless think of his MA900.
> 
> I liked the MA900 too when I heard them, but unfortunately I didn't love them. I wonder why he's selling them, since he did love them?
> 
> ...


 
  
 It's only "cleaning house" because while I do like the MA900 and would probably use them as a secondary headphone quite a lot thanks to their efficiency, I need to fill in the hole the AKG K7XX left in my wallet.
  
 Since my particular K7XX is free of blatant driver defects (no rattle or cone breakup that I've noticed) and I found it to sound quite nice even when driven directly from my X-Fi Titanium HD, I feel it's a keeper.
  
 No, it's still not as good as my old Stax SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 combo. Nothing I've tried even comes close to that, not even modern "numerical" Lambda variants. But that setup was rather hard on me financially, and I couldn't keep it. I'm just glad I got to experience something pretty close to aural perfection and Tus-Chan's continuing to enjoy it.
  
 I shouldn't have looked in the classifieds, though. The Stax itch is biting at me again...you see, this is why I try to stay off Head-Fi. It's not good for my wallet, and I have enough expensive hobbies as it is, being a tech enthusiast and all.


----------



## inseconds99

toxos said:


> GOING TO SPEND 279.99 ON SOMETHING BRB
> 
> EDIT: Ok, now I can rest easy.. I did one-day shipping since it was only $7. X*7*.. one-day shipping for *7* bucks and its for 2*7*9.99... I would say this was a jackpot huehuehue.




Did I miss something? When I just ordered it one day shipping was over $20. I did standard and it was like $11.


----------



## Murder Mike

inseconds99 said:


> Did I miss something? When I just ordered it one day shipping was over $20. I did standard and it was like $11.


 
  
 He's probably a Prime user and you aren't.


----------



## inseconds99

murder mike said:


> He's probably a Prime user and you aren't.




Makes sense.


----------



## Toxos

inseconds99 said:


> Did I miss something? When I just ordered it one day shipping was over $20. I did standard and it was like $11.


 
 I am indeed a Prime user, call me 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13... and so on ;D


----------



## Toxos

stillhart said:


> Half Life 3 confirmed!


 
 Bahaha if only.. not sure how I missed that joke though when I wrote my comment


----------



## Spartoi

So for confirmation, there still is no way to get a Boom Pro mic + SB X7 working with PS4, right?


----------



## Evshrug

spartoi said:


> So for confirmation, there still is no way to get a Boom Pro mic + SB X7 working with PS4, right?




Of course there is a way. Two.

Both involve a y-split adapter at the end of the BoomPro, one end goes to the X7, the other goes to your mic input (PS4 controller or USB dongle plugged into PS4). The only difference to a Mixamp setup really is that there isn't a mic passthrough on the X7... so you simply manually bypass the "mic in" straight to the console.


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> Of course there is a way. Two.
> 
> Both involve a y-split adapter at the end of the BoomPro, one end goes to the X7, the other goes to your mic input (PS4 controller or USB dongle plugged into PS4). The only difference to a Mixamp setup really is that there isn't a mic passthrough on the X7... so you simply manually bypass the "mic in" straight to the console.




By USB dongle do you mean a USB to 3.5mm adapter? So one like this?


----------



## Fleat

spartoi said:


> By USB dongle do you mean a USB to 3.5mm adapter? So one like this?


 
 Many people buy this including myself


----------



## High Fidelity

vader2k said:


> X7 on Amazon for $279.99!!!


 
 Mother f! I just bought a Schiit Magni Uber 2 for $170 and about a month ago bought a new Mixamp 2014 for $100. That's the X7 right there.
  
 Now the idea of picking up the X7 and selling and/or returning my gear has begun to percolate.
  
 What do you guys think? Keep my Mixamp 2014 + Uber 2 setup or get the X7? This will be for the Xbox One and eventually the PS4.


----------



## pack21

I have this and works too in PS4, i bought for coming X7.


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> Mother f! I just bought a Schiit Magni Uber 2 for $170 and about a month ago bought a new Mixamp 2014 for $100. That's the X7 right there.
> 
> Now the idea of picking up the X7 and selling and/or returning my gear has begun to percolate.
> 
> What do you guys think? Keep my Mixamp 2014 + Uber 2 setup or get the X7? This will be for the Xbox One and eventually the PS4.


 
 Aren't you having issues with the Mixamp anyways?


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> Aren't you having issues with the Mixamp anyways?


 
 The first day I used it with the Uber 2 there was very noticeable crackle, pop noise during chat. I think I had the Mixamp at ~83% volume. Yesterday it was barely perceptible, at some times I couldn't hear it. I had lowered the Mixamp volume to ~75%. I also disconnected and reconnected all the cables. Not sure if lowering the Mixamp was the reason. I played both Destiny and FIFA while in party chat. I will test it again today. 
  
 The only way I would get the X7 is if it was a better setup than the Mixamp + Uber 2, assuming no issues with the latter.


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> The first day I used it with the Uber 2 there was very noticeable crackle, pop noise during chat. I think I had the Mixamp at ~83% volume. Yesterday it was barely perceptible, at some times I couldn't hear it. I had lowered the Mixamp volume to ~75%. I also disconnected and reconnected all the cables. Not sure if lowering the Mixamp was the reason. I played both Destiny and FIFA while in party chat. I will test it again today.
> 
> The only way I would get the X7 is if it was a better setup than the Mixamp + Uber 2, assuming no issues with the latter.


 
  
 You might be the only person on here who's heard the Mixamp+Magni Uber 2 combo so I'm not sure we'd be able to tell you which is better.  But the X7 should have a better DAC with a roughly equivalent amp.  Plus all the connectivity.  Plus SBX over DH.  
  
 If you value SBX over DH and if you could use any of that additional connectivity, I'd say it's a good value proposition on paper.


----------



## High Fidelity

stillhart said:


> You might be the only person on here who's heard the Mixamp+Magni Uber 2 combo so I'm not sure we'd be able to tell you which is better.  But the X7 should have a better DAC with a roughly equivalent amp.  Plus all the connectivity.  Plus SBX over DH.
> 
> If you value SBX over DH and if you could use any of that additional connectivity, I'd say it's a good value proposition on paper.


 
 I've never heard SBX with headphones so I don't know which I'd prefer. 
  
 Would listening to this video (though my Sony VAIO laptop w/ Uber 2 and K7XX) give me a good idea if I'd like SBX or not?
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ROujJ8Ae8


----------



## Stillhart

high fidelity said:


> I've never heard SBX with headphones so I don't know which I'd prefer.
> 
> Would listening to this video (though my Sony VAIO laptop w/ Uber 2 and K7XX) give me a good idea if I'd like SBX or not?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ROujJ8Ae8


 
  
 Yes, that's one of my favorites.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Hey just a quick share with this thread, I managed to come up with an inexpensive $80 wireless surround setup to pair with BT headphones. It works great for movies, games, although not so much music because I'm spoiled with a better wired. However movies and games, this thing works fantastic.

 A quote from the deals discussion thread, if you've never been on that thread you might want to consider your wallet before entering..:


soundsgoodtome said:


> I've made an inexpensive rig to pair with BT headphones as a gaming headphone. You can make it even cheaper by using a cheap BT headset like a Creative for around $50. I'm sure the sound quality level is not up to par with wired but it's very close and super convenient with freedom to move around.
> 
> Chain looks like this: (links for each item)
> Gaming console *<* _optical cable_* >* Turtle Beach DSS (1 or 2)  ($15-$20 Ebay openbox)  < _3.5mm interconnec_t >   Avantree BT low-latency transmitter ($56 Amazon)   >   your choice of BT headphone (mine is a modded MDR-XB950BT)
> ...


----------



## Stillhart

This could be pretty solid when paired with a decent USB mic that can sit across the room and still be effective...


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

stillhart said:


> This could be pretty solid when paired with a decent USB mic that can sit across the room and still be effective...


 

 It'd be nice if the mic on the BT headset can pair separately directly to the console but I don't think any of them does that.


----------



## Stillhart

soundsgoodtome said:


> It'd be nice if the mic on the BT headset can pair separately directly to the console but I don't think any of them does that.


 
 Oh and yeah, that's a $200 "extra bass headphone" which I doubt is optimal for competitive gaming.  Do you know of other BT headphones that are maybe cheaper?  I worry that at that price (nearly $300 combined) you're not going to get much better performance than just getting an A50...


----------



## Evshrug

high fidelity said:


> Mother f! I just bought a Schiit Magni Uber 2 for $170 and about a month ago bought a new Mixamp 2014 for $100. That's the X7 right there.
> 
> Now the idea of picking up the X7 and selling and/or returning my gear has begun to percolate.
> 
> What do you guys think? Keep my Mixamp 2014 + Uber 2 setup or get the X7? This will be for the Xbox One and eventually the PS4.



I mean... The X7 easily is a better DAC than the Mixamp, better amp than the Mixamp (not sure how the amo would stand up next to the Schiit, I suspect they're on the same level BUT you wouldn't have to deal with the static from the Mixamp), plus it's got a headphone stand and a speaker amp for that one day when you'd like to throw a party, Bluetooth for sources, mobile app, better PC/Mac integration... The list goes on dude, the X7 is pretty much the obvious choice at this price.




soundsgoodtome said:


> It'd be nice if the mic on the BT headset can pair separately directly to the console but I don't think any of them does that.



The PS3 allowed Bluetooth handsfree headsets... but yeah, hopefully Sony will re-add the functionality of 3rd party handsfree headsets to the PS4.




stillhart said:


> Oh and yeah, that's a $200 "extra bass headphone" which I doubt is optimal for competitive gaming.  Do you know of other BT headphones that are maybe cheaper?  I worry that at that price (nearly $300 combined) you're not going to get much better performance than just getting an A50...



Check out Inner Fidelity's review of the Meelectronics Matrix2. About $90 or less, I ordered a pair from Massdrop (my first drop) and it should be arriving soon.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

stillhart said:


> Oh and yeah, that's a $200 "extra bass headphone" which I doubt is optimal for competitive gaming.  Do you know of other BT headphones that are maybe cheaper?  I worry that at that price (nearly $300 combined) you're not going to get much better performance than just getting an A50...


 
 Modding the XB950BT completely changes the sound from a dark/veiled with a bass boost for an earthquake to a very nicely balanced warm headphone with a bass boost to satisfy borderling bass heads. I bought it for wireless music but worked the TV/Gaming system into it because of the convenience. But... modded they do sound great with angled drivers the surround is actually pretty decent!

 But I there are other BT headsets that may be better out of the box and cheaper. Like the Creative WP-350 or WP-450. I don't think I know of any open-back BT headphones tbh which would be prime for gaming but there is a work around if you have an efficient openback gaming headphone already (like an MA900). Avantree has the Saturn Pro model which can be switched between a transmitter and reciever that you can plug to any efficient headphone to, gotta check how you can control the volume though as there are no controls on the unit itself. I believe you'll have to adjust the volume from the source which in this case will be the Turtle Beach DSS.


----------



## Stillhart

Cool, thanks guys.  The Mixamp 5.8 is rapidly disappearing from the wild so it'll be nice to have an alternate option for wireless that's better than your average Astro or TB headset.  The question is whether this is really that...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Must have missed the X7 deal. Not that i ca afford it right now regardless, but nice to see the price go down so much, even if temporarily. That's a good sign that it will be affordable in the future.

I just need to sell my OLED Vita, PS3, Mixamp 5.8, and I'd consider it once it drops down that much again. I hardly ever touch my Vita, and my Ps3 is collecting dust. Obviously my Mixamp would go last once I'm certain to get the X7.


----------



## Plexon

What do you guys think about the Beyerdynamic MMX 300's with a sound blaster Z? Any alternatives around the 500$ price range? (I play PC games like CS:GO)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wouldn't spend so much for a headset, no matter how good it is. I prefer just getting a headphone I can use mics with. That being said, closed headphones with mic capabilities... I'm still not tooooo experienced with many, especially on the higher end side.


----------



## Stillhart

plexon said:


> What do you guys think about the Beyerdynamic MMX 300's with a sound blaster Z? Any alternatives around the 500$ price range? (I play PC games like CS:GO)


 
  
 The great thing about PC gaming vs console gaming is that you don't need to waste money on a headset.  You can get a desktop mic and a regular headphone and come out ahead.  
  
 The Z is pretty solid.  I'd pair it with a nice $200 headphone and a nice desktop mic like the Blue Snowball that Evs and Axel like.


----------



## inseconds99

I am so glad I got that x7 deal before it ended just a few hours later. I called it out in the forums and tried my best to give everyone a heads up when I saw it and bought it earlier. Just got tracking info on it and it will be at my house on Saturday. I hope that's right because that is a full 4 days earlier then the original estimate of Wednesday that Amazon face me.


----------



## lenroot77

@ Plexon
Isn't the mmx 300 just a dt770 with a mic? That's a hefty mark up! Much cheaper to get the dt770 and a clip on and if u choose to go with that type of setup I'd say there are better options headphonewise. Unless u are dead set on a closed back, then maybe be the dt770s are 4 u.


----------



## High Fidelity

What was the name of third party (company) that was selling the X7 on Amazon for $279.99? It's now being sold by Creative Labs, fulfilled by Amazon, hence the original retail price.


----------



## High Fidelity

I have a question about the X7.
  
 Currently I use my Sony VAIO F Series laptop connected to my Denon AVR-1712 receiver via HDMI to play FLAC files, using foobar2000 with WASAPI, through bookshelf speakers. According to the foobar display the music playing is lossless. I've wondered what exactly is going on within the laptop, whether any unwanted processing is being bypassed, if I got an external DAC if it would improve the sound with the above setup.
  
 If possible, would the X7 connected to my laptop, and then the X7 connected to my Denon receiver, improve sound quality?


----------



## inseconds99

high fidelity said:


> What was the name of third party (company) that was selling the X7 on Amazon for $279.99? It's now being sold by Creative Labs, fulfilled by Amazon, hence the original retail price.




It wasn't third party it was creative labs. The sale was there all day and it's ended now it looks like, not sure why they'd only have their item on sale for a few hours but that's what they did.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I just need to sell my *OLED Vita*, PS3, Mixamp 5.8, and I'd consider it once it drops down that much again. I hardly ever touch my Vita, and my Ps3 is collecting dust. Obviously my Mixamp would go last once I'm certain to get the X7.


 
  
 Shoot, that's another reason for me to sell the MA900 right there! Been meaning to pick up a Vita and just never got around to it...
  
 But if I get one, there's no going back from OLED, even with all the other improvements of the revised Vita.


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> Shoot, that's another reason for me to sell the MA900 right there! Been meaning to pick up a Vita and just never got around to it...
> 
> But if I get one, there's no going back from OLED, even with all the other improvements of the revised Vita.


 
 Yeah, my eye perked up at that Vita also.  But I need a HE-1000 more.  >.>


----------



## Fleat

Yea, I get quite a bit of use out of my Vita just using remote play. Not to mention all the free games from PS+.
  
 I ended up grabbing one of the X7's when Creative had it on sale on Amazon. I am interested to compare it to the Astro MixAmp Pro & DSS2 for gaming. I am also curious to see how the input mixing works.


----------



## Stillhart

Headphone.com has a sale going right now with some good deals that people in this thread might like.  20% off with coupon code HRNEWS20.  This also applies to items currently on sale! Notables for me:
  
Skullcandy PLYR1 for $119 after sale + coupon.  This is a great little all-in-one wireless surround headset.  It blows the Playstation Gold out of the water IMO.  It's nothing special but it gets the job done with minimal cables and for really cheap.
  
Fiio E09k (B-stock) for $68 after sale + coupon.  Not much to say other than this is a pretty good price for a solid entry-level desktop amp.  I am really considering grabbing one of these actually.  I'm using the Project Ember to amp my Recon right now but I'll be selling the Ember and I've been thinking about getting a cheaper replacement like this or a used Magni or Vali or whathaveyou.


----------



## Toxos

Hmm well trying out the x7 and I gotta say the sound is fantastic. One thing tho is that sometimes I get weird static and when listening to soundtracks, it has some really weird static sometimes. So when it works, it works really well. Not sure if it is software though since it is working sometimes :/ EvShrug, did you have any issues with this?
  
 EDIT: Seems that plugging the device into usb 3.0 is not a good thing to do. The static is completely gone now! Or maybe it is the USB (MOBO is starting to show signs of age anyway).


----------



## pathfindercod

USB3 has given me grief on audio devices since usb3 was released. I always find my usb2 port for my audio stuff..


----------



## Toxos

No kidding... It sounded really weird :/ Thankfully I swapped the usb before deciding to return it!


----------



## Evshrug

toxos said:


> No kidding... It sounded really weird :/ Thankfully I swapped the usb before deciding to return it!




XD
Well, that's your reward for not jumping to conclusions


----------



## PixelSkills

So I am thinking about getting the Phillips X2, how well will it work if I just connect it to the PS4 Controller directly and not with a amp of some sort?


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> So I am thinking about getting the Phillips X2, how well will it work if I just connect it to the PS4 Controller directly and not with a amp of some sort?


 
  
 They're relatively easy to drive, so should work fine.


----------



## Stillhart

Magni 1 and Modi 1 are $79 each right now direct from Schiit.  They're listed as "B-stock/Closeout" so I assume it's a "while supplies last" kind of thing.


----------



## inseconds99

pixelskills said:


> So I am thinking about getting the Phillips X2, how well will it work if I just connect it to the PS4 Controller directly and not with a amp of some sort?




I am thinking about returning my HD 700's as even though I love the way the headphones sound but I don't experience this soundstage that everyone is speaking about. I feel like the soundstage is only marginally better then my m-100's. Maybe I'm missing something here but I feel like maybe the x2 might be the next headphone I try. 

I'm just concerned as in I think the sound of the HD 700's is near perfect for what I was looking for, but the soundstage is not as large as I wanted for gaming. This is gonna be a tough choice.


----------



## Yethal

On this whole virtual surround battle one contender seems to have been foroggten. Tritton AX720+ decoder box. The box itself can be bought direct from Tritton for 35$ + 10$ for the inline cable (unfortunately it's necessary). That's 45$ in total which is even less than half the cost of a new mixamp. Even adding in cost of a mini usb cable (which most of users already have), optical (ditto) and a chat cable for xbox/ps4 that's still much much less than a mixamp.  Also, the newer model does not need an AC adapter to function.


----------



## Evshrug

InSeconds99,
I'd rate the HD700's soundstage as just the upper range of average-sized for a headphone. Stand-outs that I'VE HEARD for soundstage are the AKG K-series (in particular the K701 or 702), Audio Technica AD700, and Sony MDR-MA900. Soundstage in general is something to manage expectations with on headphones, but I thought those were pretty impressive with their sense of air. Some people don't like the extra soundstage of these models and deem them "unnatural and exaggerated." Not saying you have to buy another pair of headphones, but Chicolom has a thread about soundstage.
-----


Yethal,
It's an alright option, ebay'd DSS version 1 is often found (with optical cable and USB) for $30 or less, has less background noise, so generally less likely to recommend unless you already have the Tritton. Review of it is in the OP under the headphones.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> InSeconds99,
> I'd rate the HD700's soundstage as just the upper range of average-sized for a headphone. Stand-outs that I'VE HEARD for soundstage are the AKG K-series (in particular the K701 or 702), Audio Technica AD700, and Sony MDR-MA900. Soundstage in general is something to manage expectations with on headphones, but I thought those were pretty impressive with their sense of air. Some people don't like the extra soundstage of these models and deem them "unnatural and exaggerated." Not saying you have to buy another pair of headphones, but Chicolom has a thread about soundstage.
> -----
> 
> ...




I have to agree with you, they are very average. In a way they remind me of a closed back headphone. Also, I've noticed that my hear touches the driver and that becomes a little annoying. Going to order a couple more pairs of headphones this weekend and I'm going to return what I don't like. Gonna order the x2 dt990 and ma900. I'll report back on comparisons.


----------



## Evshrug

^Holy!
Your ears touch the drivers? Uuuuuuuuuuuh, uuuuh... well, your ears will probably touch the drivers of any headphone short of the AKG K1000.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> ^Holy!
> Your ears touch the drivers? Uuuuuuuuuuuh, uuuuh... well, your ears will probably touch the drivers of any headphone short of the AKG K1000.


 
 Yeah, I was nowhere close to the drivers on the HD700.  Those things felt cavernous...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pixelskills said:


> So I am thinking about getting the Phillips X2, how well will it work if I just connect it to the PS4 Controller directly and not with a amp of some sort?




Not well. The controller is too weak for it, and you'll get moderately low volume.

The X2 is easy to drive from basically most sources, but the DS4 output is pathetic.

BTW, the X2 may be easy to drive to loud volumes, but it is very sensitive to whatever is amping it. It's neutral tone will change depending on source and amp. So I recommend something at least decent.


----------



## Devil Dog

With great regret I must return my AKG K712 Pro's. They sound great but unfortunately my melon is on the small side for these to obtain a proper fit. Not enough clamping so they fit loosely. Too much movement with these on. Every time I move so do the cans. 
  
 Any suggestions on a comparable level with better clamping or at least more of a fit for a smaller noggin?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser HD650. Those clamp like a beast at first. Unfortunately not many headphones like the K712s in signature AND soundstage. 650, MA900 (as a cheaper alternative).


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheiser HD650. Those clamp like a beast at first. Unfortunately not many headphones like the K712s in signature AND soundstage. 650, MA900 (as a cheaper alternative).


 
  
 Yeah, the HD650 was my first thought too, but it doesn't really sound like the Q701 at all (and therefore, I assume it doesn't sound like the K712 either).  Great headphone but different sound signature.
  
 Someone posted something this morning or last night on the Deals thread about an HD650 on sale for $320...


----------



## Devil Dog

Thanks guys have to take a look at them.
  
 Any other suggestions. I was originally looking at the DT990 as well as the Fidelio X2. How are these as far as fit? Any tighter clamping compared to the K12's? Doesn't have to be super clamp but just a bit more pressure than the K12.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah yes the X2 clamps quite a bit more than the 712. The tonality is different though, but I still wholeheartedly recommend it as an alternative. It's a great sounding headphone, period. It will still have a large soundstage, great tonal balance, and all rounded nature. Bass is fantastic for an open headphone too. Lots of energy, with great minds, and treble.


----------



## Devil Dog

Good to hear. Like I said, I don't need much more clamping. Just a bit more than what the K12 provides. Damn shame as I think these sound great.
  
 I've been reading good things about the X2. How are they driving wise? I currently am using an ASUS Xonar Xense that has served me well but am looking to get a dedicated AMP/DAC. I have 2 PC's and would like to use the cans on both. Any suggestions for these? Surround as well.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are a bit easier to drive than the 712. Don't need much, I would just make sure the source is high quality. 

As for soundcards and whatnot, there are plenty of people that can help. I'm not here to bring back those tired discussions.


----------



## Devil Dog

mad lust envy said:


> They are a bit easier to drive than the 712. Don't need much, I would just make sure the source is high quality.
> 
> As for soundcards and whatnot, there are plenty of people that can help. I'm not here to bring back those tired discussions.


 
 Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
  
 Don't want to bring up worn topics. I'm good on the soundcard direction. More looking at other options not using an onboard  or soundcard.


----------



## martin vegas

pixelskills said:


> So I am thinking about getting the Phillips X2, how well will it work if I just connect it to the PS4 Controller directly and not with a amp of some sort?


 

 Get the AKG 545 if you just want to plug them into your controller!


----------



## pack21

I don't understand why some users buy headfones by the tastes of others, when we know most headfones has a smaller soundstage than  K702, would be those should have purchased if we want big soundstage.
 Within this price, the MA900 are the ones with more soundstage and feeling of air, has more than K702 due to openings in the pads, if somehow we can make holes in the K702 pads will have large and airy soundstage as in MA900. I hope someday to buy a second pair of K702 pads to make some openings pad mods.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> I have to agree with you, they are very average. In a way they remind me of a closed back headphone. Also, I've noticed that my hear touches the driver and that becomes a little annoying. Going to order a couple more pairs of headphones this weekend and I'm going to return what I don't like. Gonna order the x2 dt990 and ma900. I'll report back on comparisons.


 
  
 Touching the drivers? On the HD 700? You must have ears with a more considerable angle than mine. I can't think of a time when mine have touched those drivers. I do have headphones where it has happened but they were terrible anyway and we don't talk about them. I wasn't a fan of the DT990 and I haven't heard the MA900 but I have read good things about it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pack21 said:


> I don't understand why some users buy headfones by the tastes of others, when we know most headfones has a smaller soundstage than  K702, would be those should have purchased if we want big soundstage.
> Within this price, the MA900 are the ones with more soundstage and feeling of air, has more than K702 due to openings in the pads, if somehow we can make holes in the K702 pads will have large and airy soundstage as in MA900. I hope someday to buy a second pair of K702 pads to make some openings pad mods.




Sure, if you want to destroy all the sound quality. You can't simply just copy the MA900's design and expect similar results. The MA900's technology is quite different from standard dynamic headphones. You try putting openings on pads, you'll suck out all the bass and warmth, and it will be nothing but treble.


----------



## lenroot77

Items I'll be posting in classifieds later tonight ..pm me for more info and pics


Sennheiser PC 350 Special Edition (Game Zero) $100
Fiio E09K- $65

Plus shipping, I'll eat the PayPal fees.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Not well. The controller is too weak for it, and you'll get moderately low volume.
> 
> The X2 is easy to drive from basically most sources, but the DS4 output is pathetic.
> 
> BTW, the X2 may be easy to drive to loud volumes, but it is very sensitive to whatever is amping it. It's neutral tone will change depending on source and amp. So I recommend something at least decent.




If you had only one choice for gaming, ma900 or the fidelio x2, which one would you choose.


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> If you had only one choice for gaming, ma900 or the fidelio x2, which one would you choose.



If I was a gambling man, I'd wager that Mad will always appreciate the low-weight-low-clamp comfort and impressive air and imaging of the MA900, but the handsome X2 seems to address the quibbles he had for the X1, for one headphone to enjoy games and anime I bet he'd pick the X2. You can tell he liked both the X1 and MA900 from his reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X2 is better rounded than the MA900. The MA900 has a signature that not everyone will like. The X2 has a signature that should hit quite a bit more preferences.

I love both, but the X2 is superior overall.


----------



## cocolinho

I owned X1 & MA900. I prefered X1 signature. To my ears MA900 were lacking extensions in lows & highs.


----------



## rebelx

mad lust envy said:


> I love both, but the X2 is superior overall.


 
  
 Thanks for the guide! Couple questions for you.
  
 I'm currently using the Bose QC15; those were primarily purchased for their ANC that really helps me out when I'm on the move somewhere. It's the best pair of headphones I've used, but from what I've read, I can definitely do better in terms of pure music and gaming usage. My next set is going to be geared primarily towards gaming (80% PC, 20% PS4) and a smaller portion for YouTube/Netflix.
  
 I really liked the fact that the Bose set is extremely comfortable, even after hours on my head. It has an attached mic on there, which would be good for things like the PS4, but does not help when I play on the PC as I have a dedicated mic. However, a detachable keyboard would be nice since I typically run over the cord and the detach feature has likely saved me from completely damaging the Bose set. Consequently, the AKG K612 is sadly out of the running for that reason alone.
  
 I am not looking for any isolation, so an open back headphone would be acceptable this time around. I would like a high rated "competitive" element as you put it in your OP. I primarily play DOTA and the occasional shooter.
  
 I have the Asus Xonar DG sound card, so whatever impedance it can drive, is about all I can handle. I don't think it can go past 150 ohms, but I'm not 100% sure. I also have an extension Y cable on it (for back when I used to use the Bose's in-line mic) and for when I wanted to switch back and forth from my speakers. I still use the extension cable, but without the mic cable as I have a USB mic now. Not sure if the 2-3" extension cable would reduce quality or ohms allowance. Do you think it would?
  
 Definitely looking for full size headphones, like the Bose QC15. I think I prefer when they rest over and past my ears, instead of on them. Comfort is very important to me, as is positional audio. The Asus sound card also does 5.1 Dolby, I think. I don't think I would want to spend on a dedicated amp at this time, so no Schiit models for me.
  
 With a soft limit of $250, and a hard limit of $300, the AKG K712 Pro just seems to be a bit out of my willingness to spend (since taxes on Amazon will put it close to $400 for me). You seemed to like that unit very much in your review. But if I need to, I'll spend the money. However, some people are not pleased (on Amazon) that some AKG units are now made in China instead of Austria. Is that a problem?
  
 And besides straight buying them online, is there no local retailer in the US that carries these units? I'm seeing my purchase options as only Amazon and I'd like to try before I buy, if at all possible.
  
 Do you have any recommendations based on the criteria above? Thanks!!


----------



## PixelSkills

So I have a dilemma, I was going to buy the X2 and Vmoda Boom Mic to hook up to my DS4 (PS4 Controller) because that is just all I can afford. Would I be better of buying these 2 rather then spending my money on the new Astro A50 2nd gen? Mad Lust said that the X2 would not get enough power from the DS4 controller so im at a stand still as I do not want to get it and then have to buy a dac/amp for the PS4. Just to make it clear I really dont care about surround sound in a headset, good stereo is the best option for me as I really cannot hear the directional cues. I heard the Astro A50 is a great headset for immersion and that is what im going for and the wireless would be great since I have a child.
  
 Any direction would be nice, I would love to buy the X2 but if it is going to sound horrible out of the DS4 there is just no point.


----------



## kabebox

What do u use an amp with K612 pro when u play FPS.
  
 I play counter-strike:global offensive(Classic competitive mode) on PC and Halo 3 (playlist is MLG, and will play H5) on XBOX.
  
 I had Astro A40 systems 2011 edition but A40 headset was broken. So I bought AKG K612 pro and use with astro mixamp now.
 But, this article, u say AKG K612 pro is a high-impedance headphone and requires more power than Astro mixamp's.
 >I recommend a warmer sounding amp to better match the K612's neutrality and shave off the slight harshness up top.
 But I have no knowledge about amplifier, please tell me about your amplifier.


----------



## Yethal

kabebox said:


> What do u use an amp with K612 pro when u play FPS.
> 
> I play counter-strike:global offensive(Classic competitive mode) on PC and Halo 3 (playlist is MLG, and will play H5) on XBOX.
> 
> ...


 
 Just buy Schiit Magni. that's all You need


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> So I have a dilemma, I was going to buy the X2 and Vmoda Boom Mic to hook up to my DS4 (PS4 Controller) because that is just all I can afford. Would I be better of buying these 2 rather then spending my money on the new Astro A50 2nd gen? Mad Lust said that the X2 would not get enough power from the DS4 controller so im at a stand still as I do not want to get it and then have to buy a dac/amp for the PS4. Just to make it clear I really dont care about surround sound in a headset, good stereo is the best option for me as I really cannot hear the directional cues. I heard the Astro A50 is a great headset for immersion and that is what im going for and the wireless would be great since I have a child.
> 
> Any direction would be nice, I would love to buy the X2 but if it is going to sound horrible out of the DS4 there is just no point.


 
  
 Why not get a small portable amp like the Fiio E11 and see if that works for you?


----------



## leo-47

Hey Guys,
  
         I wanna buy a new pair of headphones for general purposes such as listening to music, watching movies and playing video games by my laptop(MSI GS60 ghost pro). I will usually use headphone at home but who knows, maybe I change my mind and want to use it outside as well. As a result I think a close back headphone would be better for me, however the sound quality and sound stage of open ones can't be ignored specially for games. Now, I'm completely confused with the market of different kinds of headphones with different quality and brands. I should mention that I'm looking for an over-ear headphone. Now, I would like to ask you do me a favor please and help me to choose a good pair of headphones. Your valuable advice will be appreciated.


----------



## Change is Good

leo-47 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> [COLOR=141823]         I wanna buy a new pair of headphones for general purpo[/COLOR]ses such as listening to music, watching movies and playing video games by my laptop(MSI GS60 ghost pro). I will usually use headphone at home but who knows, maybe I change my mind and want to use it outside as well. As a result I think a close back headphone would be better for me, however the sound quality and sound stage of open ones can't be ignored specially for games. Now, I'm completely confused with the market of different kinds of headphones with different quality and brands. I should mention that I'm looking for an over-ear headphone. Now, I would like to ask you do me a favor please and help me to choose a good pair of headphones. Your valuable advice will be appreciated.




Budget?


----------



## leo-47

change is good said:


> Budget?



Anything around 500. ( both headphone and Dac/Amp if needed, for open ones)


----------



## Change is Good

Sorry I can't go in depth as I am limited on my time to post. 

I strongly suggest one of the SoundMAGIC closed headphones, HP150 or HP100, along with the Creative X7 since you are gaming on your laptop. The X7 will be useful to you for a good long while, as an all in one DAC/Amp/DSP, and you can always upgrade your headphones down the road. The X7 was just recently sold for $280 on Amazon, so keep an eye out for another sale price.


----------



## Barhen

Hey all, great thread, I was wondering if this community has some great suggestions for on the ear types of headset for gaming and for on the go for the ipad for music listening and books... mostly for gaming on the PS4.  I don't mind getting an amp if its required.  It must be on the ear type since my cochlear implants cant get the full sounds from in the ear or over the ear types that usually block out outside sounds.  I really dig the extra bass types but not required. Budget $150 but could spend more if its really nice.  I used to have a bluetooth behind the head set that were on top of my ears type which was PERFECT, except they are discontinued and I cannot find similar types of that quality anymore since most have gone in the ear style nowadays or using ear clips which I cannot use..
  
 Thanks for any suggestions!


----------



## rafagoulart

help me choose headphone choose to gaming PC with a SoundBlaster Z
  
 AKG K 240                                  $ 76.71
 AKG K 240 MK II                          $ 121.07
 Sennheiser HD 598                       $ 153.99
 Audio Technica ATH-AD900X         $ 180.46
 AKG Q 701 (white)                        $ 184.95
  
 I would like to have a bit of bass because I plan not buy another headphone for a long time


----------



## Change is Good

barhen said:


> Hey all, great thread, I was wondering if this community has some great suggestions for on the ear types of headset for gaming and for on the go for the ipad for music listening and books... mostly for gaming on the PS4.  I don't mind getting an amp if its required.  It must be on the ear type since my cochlear implants cant get the full sounds from in the ear or over the ear types that usually block out outside sounds.  I really dig the extra bass types but not required. Budget $150 but could spend more if its really nice.  I used to have a bluetooth behind the head set that were on top of my ears type which was PERFECT, except they are discontinued and I cannot find similar types of that quality anymore since most have gone in the ear style nowadays or using ear clips which I cannot use..
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions!


 
  
 On-ear?
  
 Try the KEF M500, V-Moda XS, or Sennheiser Momentum On-Ear


----------



## Change is Good

rafagoulart said:


> help me choose headphone choose to gaming PC with a SoundBlaster Z
> 
> AKG K 240                                  $ 76.71
> AKG K 240 MK II                          $ 121.07
> ...


 
  
 Does it have to be open or closed? For that price range, and a bit of bass, try the AKG K612 for open, or the SoundMAGIC HP150 for closed.


----------



## Stillhart

I happen to know someone selling a well-taken-care-of Momentum On-Ear...  >.>


----------



## rafagoulart

change is good said:


> Does it have to be open or closed? For that price range, and a bit of bass, try the AKG K612 for open, or the SoundMAGIC HP150 for closed.


 
  
 Open!
  
 the akg K612 will be good with SoundBlaster Z?
  
 I want a headphone with a good soundstage / positioning for fps but I do not want to sacrifice (much) the immersion gaming


----------



## Change is Good

rafagoulart said:


> Open!
> 
> the akg K612 will be good with SoundBlaster Z?
> 
> I want a headphone with a good soundstage / positioning for fps but I do not want to sacrifice (much) the immersion gaming


 
  
 I believe it's been mentioned in here that they should sound fine with the SoundBlasters. I, personally, have no experience with computer soundcards...


----------



## leo-47

Hi,

Is AKG K712pro+soundblaster E5(portable DAC/amp) a good combination for general purposes?
And I would like to know your idea on B&W P7 and Master and Dynamic MH 40 as well. 
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Doomedx

Hey, amazing post and thanks for all info i get from it !
  
 Now i am thinking about AKG K 612 Pro, but my sound card in my PC just sux.. i guess i should buy some amp for it.. what u guys think about FiiO E10k Olympus 2 ? i can get it for good price so thats why i asking.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Desktop amp or E12 at minimum for the 612.


----------



## dakanao

Since last week, I've been gaming with the Ostry KC06a IEMS. Imaging is not that good, but decent. But their strength is in the immersion and details. VERY detailed IEMs, which let you hear everything in the game, and bass is very tight and present, but with the DSS bass on minimum, the bass doesn't distract when I'm playing COD online for example, because it's so tight.


----------



## Doomedx

mad lust envy said:


> Desktop amp or E12 at minimum for the 612.


 
 i am kinda newbie at this things but how about Schiit Magni for that AKG K612 Pro ? Or do i need also buy Schiit Modi to combo it with Magni


----------



## PixelSkills

Will the astro mixamp adequately supply enough power to the phillips x2? Or will it still need to be amped?


----------



## bavinck

I have no problems chatting with the mixamp and x2,more than adequate sound level.


----------



## Fleat

pixelskills said:


> Will the astro mixamp adequately supply enough power to the phillips x2? Or will it still need to be amped?


 
 My 2014 Astro MixAmp Pro didn't have any trouble driving the X2. It might not get to ear bleed level, but it certainly allows a comfortable listening volume. Although there are better options out there, I think it sounded pretty good for the price.


----------



## Doomedx

doomedx said:


> i am kinda newbie at this things but how about Schiit Magni for that AKG K612 Pro ? Or do i need also buy Schiit Modi to combo it with Magni


 
 Also how about not buying any amp/dac and just buy sound card for my PC for example Asus Xonar DX/XD is that ok ?
  
 btw. i got logitech z-5500 could i use it as a amp for my headphones or its just a joke ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X2 without voice chat can be ear bleeding off the Mixamp. I use it wih the Mixamp alone quite a lot, when I don't feel like turning on the Vali (the Vali is attached to my E17, and I don't feel like disconnecting stuff, etc).

Also, the Mixamp alone can drive the X2 with voice chat quite adequately as well, though likesomeone stated earlier, not as loud or energetically. Usually when I voice chat, I like my in game volume a lot lower than the voice chat, so it's fine for me. However if you like your game audio near the same loudness as when you don't voice chat, then you may want an amp.


----------



## Doomedx

nevermind i will just buy Asus Xonar Essence STX as my DAC, i heard its good very good on desktop pc.
  
 But i cant decide if pick AKG K612 Pro or Sennheiser PC 360, which one u guys think its better for overal use not only for games ? price is same in my region


----------



## lenroot77

doomedx said:


> nevermind i will just buy Asus Xonar Essence STX as my DAC, i heard its good very good on desktop pc.
> 
> But i cant decide if pick AKG K612 Pro or Sennheiser PC 360, which one u guys think its better for overal use not only for games ? price is same in my region




Akg FTW!


----------



## hi2chris

[Delete]


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> X2 is better rounded than the MA900. The MA900 has a signature that not everyone will like. The X2 has a signature that should hit quite a bit more preferences.
> 
> I love both, but the X2 is superior overall.


 
  
 Well, there goes any chance I had of selling my MA900 whatsoever...oh wait, the X2's twice the price on Amazon. Of course I'd expect it to be better!


----------



## osirus35

toxos said:


> Hmm well trying out the x7 and I gotta say the sound is fantastic. One thing tho is that sometimes I get weird static and when listening to soundtracks, it has some really weird static sometimes. So when it works, it works really well. Not sure if it is software though since it is working sometimes :/ EvShrug, did you have any issues with this?
> 
> EDIT: Seems that plugging the device into usb 3.0 is not a good thing to do. The static is completely gone now! Or maybe it is the USB (MOBO is starting to show signs of age anyway).


 
  
 I had the same experience and Creative seemed like they were not aware of this when I emailed them. USB 3.0 static/crackling mess, USB 2.0 no more static. I also seem to get some buzzing at 100% volume. Other than that the sound quality easily matches if not surpasses my Creative Z sound card


----------



## Spartoi

evshrug said:


> Of course there is a way. Two.
> 
> Both involve a y-split adapter at the end of the BoomPro, one end goes to the X7, the other goes to your mic input (PS4 controller or USB dongle plugged into PS4). The only difference to a Mixamp setup really is that there isn't a mic passthrough on the X7... so you simply manually bypass the "mic in" straight to the console.


 


fleat said:


> Many people buy this including myself


 
  
 So I bought that USB dongle but it isn't working on my PS4. I used the Y-split adapter that came with my BoomPro mic and I plugged the headphone side into my SB X7 and the mic side into the USB dongle and inserted that into my PS4. Regular audio works through the SB X7 but the mic is not working. Looking at the USB dongle, it doesn't I'm not sure if it is fully inserted into the PS4 or not.
  

  
 It looks like it is still partially sticking out of the PS4. So is this USB dongle just not a good fit for the PS4 or is my setup wrong?


----------



## pack21

Buy a short cable USB extensor male/female


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Well, there goes any chance I had of selling my MA900 whatsoever...oh wait, the X2's twice the price on Amazon. Of course I'd expect it to be better!




Everyone should know damn well by now how much of an MA900 fanboy I am. I LOVE that headphone.

But then, the constant question I get: If you loved it, why did you sell it?

Gee, am I supposed to keep 50 headphones because I like them? It's called the need to try new things. Doesn't make the MA900 any less awesome. If I had the money, I would STILL be upgrading all the time. I don't have the capital to continue that exercise.


Wasn't aimed particularly at anyone, btw. Just in general.

My honest opinion is that the MA900 is awesome, but some may not like the warm tone, and polite upper range. The X2 is more neutral in that it keeps almost everything on the level, tonally, so it's more likely to be broader in appeal, as it sits between both extremes.

If you like a warm signature, large soundstage, and non-fatiguing sound, the MA900 is AMAZING. It's still easily my fave sub $200 recommendation, if it were still in that price range. Don't need 20 questions about that. Yes, for less than $200, the MA900 is my fave. PERIOD.


----------



## Fleat

spartoi said:


> So I bought that USB dongle but it isn't working on my PS4. I used the Y-split adapter that came with my BoomPro mic and I plugged the headphone side into my SB X7 and the mic side into the USB dongle and inserted that into my PS4. Regular audio works through the SB X7 but the mic is not working. Looking at the USB dongle, it doesn't I'm not sure if it is fully inserted into the PS4 or not.
> 
> 
> 
> It looks like it is still partially sticking out of the PS4. So is this USB dongle just not a good fit for the PS4 or is my setup wrong?


 
 I am not sure if this is just the picture, but you don't seem to have the chat output from the Syba hooked up to the X7 via the Line In. Without that, I don't think you will be able to hear your own voice in testing and you definitely won't hear other people. I currently have mine hooked up using a USB extender, but I believe I had it plugged directly in a while back without any issues.
  
 Edit: FYI: The Sound Blaster X7 comes with a 3.5mm to RCA cable that you can use to run chat output to the line in


----------



## bigbeard

i know this is a bit off-topic, but a lot of you here know your stuff.
  
 my question is, does the windows speaker configuration for 5.1 or stereo have any effect on sound that goes through optical out for to my Dac/Amp?
  
 What about when i use my SBZ DSP for virtual surround, but decide to turn off virtual surround when i want stereo for music. under this setting, windows is configured for sbz/speakers as default, and "play stereo mix through digital out" is select in SBZ control panel.
  
 I tested it, and it seems to have no effect when i turn off DSP and want purely stereo, but i wanted to be sure.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Everyone should know damn well by now how much of an MA900 fanboy I am. I LOVE that headphone.
> 
> But then, the constant question I get: If you loved it, why did you sell it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like the reason why I wound up selling my SR-Lambda + SRM-T1 despite being damned close to sonic perfection...well, that and spending like $750-900 on a headphone and amp is a tough financial pill to swallow for too long. Nothing kills your wallet like electrostatics due to the amplification requirements.
  
 Going through lots of things, be it headphones or anything else, is the only way to really get any experience with this stuff. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse, but there's only one way to find out in most cases because we're generally not being given these things for free...
  


mad lust envy said:


> If you like a warm signature, large soundstage, and non-fatiguing sound, the MA900 is AMAZING. *It's still easily my fave sub $200 recommendation, if it were still in that price range.* Don't need 20 questions about that. Yes, for less than $200, the MA900 is my fave. PERIOD.


 
  
*cough* $150 *cough*


----------



## KCchiefin24

Has anyone used the iFi iCan micro while gaming? I'm curious as to how the 3D sound effect works in comparison to dolby surround (from a mixamp)
  
 Edit: Or better yet...the iCan's 3D sound used in conjunction with a mixamp?


----------



## Evshrug

bigbeard said:


> i know this is a bit off-topic, but a lot of you here know your stuff.
> 
> my question is, does the windows speaker configuration for 5.1 or stereo have any effect on sound that goes through optical out for to my Dac/Amp?
> 
> ...




You'll get a better answer in the Creative Sound Blaster new series Z, Zx, and ZxR thread.


----------



## Change is Good

kcchiefin24 said:


> Has anyone used the iFi iCan micro while gaming? I'm curious as to how the 3D sound effect works in comparison to dolby surround (from a mixamp)
> 
> Edit: Or better yet...the iCan's 3D sound used in conjunction with a mixamp?


 
  
 I used to own one. I found the 3D effect to be more enjoyable when just listening to music. For surround, I didn't like it as much as the mixamp's DSP, alone.
  
 As for combining the two, I tried it. Seemed too unrealistic to me. Kind of hard to explain...


----------



## Evshrug

kcchiefin24 said:


> Has anyone used the iFi iCan micro while gaming? I'm curious as to how the 3D sound effect works in comparison to dolby surround (from a mixamp)
> 
> Edit: Or better yet...the iCan's 3D sound used in conjunction with a mixamp?




I haven't heard an iCan product myself, but Chicolom, who used to frequent this thread a lot, had one (and Change is Good for awhile too, right?), and from their review the 3D effect was a Crossfeed with a little EQ and perhaps a mild reverb. It doesn't understand positional audio, it's an effect on stereo sound. You _could_ use it with virtual headphone surround... but it might mess up positional placement, sound extra distant and weird, generally wouldn't recommend it unless you like unusual flavor combinations (no offense Army-Firedawg!).


Edit: LOL I was right! Hello Change, you beautiful 8@$74#>! It's an ugly gray 36°F and slushy here, how are things in central florida?


----------



## KCchiefin24

Makes sense. Too much manipulation of the sound.
  
 Any particular reason you got rid of the iCan? I'm currently running a fiio e09k+e17 combo, but I want to move that combo to my desk at work and have a dedicated amp for home. The iCan caught my eye w/ the bass boost and 3D effect, but if they're just gimmicks I'd rather spend that $250 on something better.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I haven't heard an iCan product myself, but Chicolom, who used to frequent this thread a lot, had one (and Change is Good for awhile too, right?), and from their review the 3D effect was a Crossfeed with a little EQ and perhaps a mild reverb. It doesn't understand positional audio, it's an effect on stereo sound. You _could_ use it with virtual headphone surround... but it might mess up positional placement, sound extra distant and weird, generally wouldn't recommend it unless you like unusual flavor combinations (no offense Army-Firedawg!).
> 
> 
> Edit: LOL I was right! Hello Change, you beautiful 8@$74#>! It's an ugly gray 36°F and slushy here, how are things in central florida?




70° and sunny 




kcchiefin24 said:


> Makes sense. Too much manipulation of the sound.
> 
> Any particular reason you got rid of the iCan? I'm currently running a fiio e09k+e17 combo, but I want to move that combo to my desk at work and have a dedicated amp for home. The iCan caught my eye w/ the bass boost and 3D effect, but if they're just gimmicks I'd rather spend that $250 on something better.




I actually never sold it. It crapped out one me, and the replacement I recieved had QC issues. IFi ended up replacing it with the slightly more expensive iDAC for the inconvenience, which I ended up selling a short while after.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> 70° and sunny


 
  
 I'd rather have this 50º and overcast rather than live in Florida. True fact.


----------



## Change is Good

I'd rather be retired and live in Florida. False Lie.


----------



## Evshrug

I might go to Florida to die, but while I'm young-ish and vigorous, I'd really like living in Provo, UT. Would be totally sweet to write for a living, hike and photograph for fun.
Everybody's different, yay!

Since my gf is part of an acting club which takes a lot of her time without much payoff, and prevents vacations, I kinda want to buy Nameless' headphone... But really shouldn't buy headphones when I'm sad! Lol! What I ought to do is start posting some of my YouTube videos...


----------



## rudyae86

Wow, I was gone for about 5 days and return to see what was being talked about lol. I'm looking at my MA900, A900X, M50, Momentum On ears, AKG K7XX.....and then I sit here and remember the Fidelio X1, I miss it a lot for some reason


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Florida sucks, don't come down here.


----------



## Army-Firedawg

evshrug said:


> I haven't heard an iCan product myself, but Chicolom, who used to frequent this thread a lot, had one (and Change is Good for awhile too, right?), and from their review the 3D effect was a Crossfeed with a little EQ and perhaps a mild reverb. It doesn't understand positional audio, it's an effect on stereo sound. You _could_ use it with virtual headphone surround... but it might mess up positional placement, sound extra distant and weird, generally wouldn't recommend it unless you like unusual flavor combinations (no offense Army-Firedawg!).
> 
> 
> Edit: LOL I was right! Hello Change, you beautiful 8@$74#>! It's an ugly gray 36°F and slushy here, how are things in central florida?




Haha i love you arse holes we all need to raid together again sometime. Scree going hard or w/e for loot just have fun again. Oh and the icans ive no opinion on thimem so just diregard my irrelevant comment *slowly exits forum while eating my aparently well known hot dogs*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've been playing a lot of Dragon Age: Inquisition on PC. Not exactly my type of gameplay, but I enjoy the characters and the more non-action parts, like talking to my characters and stuff. Skyhold reminds me a lot of Suikoden-esque castle/recruitment.


----------



## Vindication

Anyone on here ever try HD700s for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

vindication said:


> Anyone on here ever try HD700s for gaming?



I switch between K712 and HD700 mainly right now for gaming. The HD700 need a good amp to show what they can do, else they may be like mid-fi headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

What Evs said, but I think they're great gaming cans if they're in your budget and you have an amp. They're so comfortable for extended gaming sessions and their pronounced treble really helps with the details. It's not the most immersive sound but if you're eyeing the 700 it shouldn't be what you're after anyways.


----------



## ritterbutzke

Hey,
 Has anyone tried the virtual surround of the Sound Blaster X7 using a PS4? How are games and movies compared to stereo? Deciding between this and the E5 which is alot cheaper, but if the sbx surround is worth it I would buy it.
 Thanks


----------



## pack21

X7 LTD & X7 in stock on US store, but all sold out on EU stores.....Beginning to get a little tired of this company.


----------



## Stillhart

ritterbutzke said:


> Hey,
> Has anyone tried the virtual surround of the Sound Blaster X7 using a PS4? How are games and movies compared to stereo? Deciding between this and the E5 which is alot cheaper, but if the sbx surround is worth it I would buy it.
> Thanks


 
  
 Yes, several people in here use the X7 with the PS4.  And many more use SBX/THX surround on the PS4 and PC.  Most folks in this thread will agree that the surround is great.  Is it worth paying $200 more than the E5?  Well not if that's the ONLY reason you're getting the X7.  There are plenty of cheaper alternatives like the Recon3D or Mixamp or DSS.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I've been playing a lot of Dragon Age: Inquisition on PC. Not exactly my type of gameplay, but I enjoy the characters and the more non-action parts, like talking to my characters and stuff. Skyhold reminds me a lot of Suikoden-esque castle/recruitment.


 
  
 I don't have the benefit to play it on PC, but it really is an amazing game...


----------



## Evshrug

ritterbutzke said:


> Hey,
> Has anyone tried the virtual surround of the Sound Blaster X7 using a PS4? How are games and movies compared to stereo? Deciding between this and the E5 which is alot cheaper, but if the sbx surround is worth it I would buy it.
> Thanks



I mean, if you're playing side-scrolling indie games, it doesn't matter, but if you're playing any first person games (and several 3rd person!) and watching movies, then I think headphone surround is pretty fantastic. [edit: the creative E5 does work with consoles... In stereo] Think of the X7 this way... 

The DAC in it is very high resolution, audio equivalent of a 4k display except that a good DAC will stay high-res and really prove itself when the action gets fast.
The Amp (and speaker amp) in the X7 is relatively clean and powerful, it's like a 52" display that feels impressive to behold and, combined with the resolution, makes it easy to pick out the different elements of the scene, and is breathtaking with explosions and quiet expansive vistas. It's also as big as you'll likely need in your home, though there are bigger/better.
Virtual Headphone Surround (provided by SBX here) is like what they wanted to achieve with 3D video... The action leaps off the screen and puts your relative position into the scene, though surround extends beyond your sight and the frame of a TV and really can (with great sound design in a game) put you into the environment of the story, while also portraying depth. This is obviously awesome in horror games, but surprisingly accurate for tracking action in FPS games.


If headphone surround works for you (it does for 99.999% of us) check out the videos posted at the beginning of this guide or my guide (linked in my signature) and see if it's something cool you might like. There are several other options for getting surround audio at lower cost, but the X7 is the "best" overall setup that lets you use any headphone and doesn't require you to get a model of your ear cast and recording time rented in a theater (big $$$$ jump to the next level, overkill for gaming). I got one, and after writing my review, I've had a hard time tearing myself away to test other devices. I started using headphone surround with a Creative Recon3D USB, which was also awesome in many ways, but I was compelled to buy a stronger amp to plug into the Recon3D USB's headphone jack. I wrote a guide article specifically about headphone surround if you want to learn more, it's linked in the "if I knew then..." posted in my signature.




pack21 said:


> X7 LTD & X7 in stock on US store, but all sold out on EU stores.....Beginning to get a little tired of this company.



You already have one though, right? And it's only been out for a month (Europe is pretty hardcore about gaming), if it's been popular then I can see why the supply has been bought up. PS4's were hard to get here in the States for a long time, but I didn't say "I'm getting tired of Sony!" (I did say I was tired of Microsoft, but that was a loooong running thing).


----------



## Evshrug

Change,
What kind of thumbsticks/covers are those? I'd still like a little better grip on my stick (the struggle is real!)


----------



## pack21

X7 was in stock until the last few days, would buy mine monday, because i was waiting until i sell my Mixamp, so already put in my signature.

 Today i went to store and is out of stock. I don't believe that many have been sold.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Change,
> What kind of thumbsticks/covers are those? I'd still like a little better grip on my stick (the struggle is real!)





http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00GOOSV98


----------



## ritterbutzke

evshrug said:


> The DAC in it is very high resolution, audio equivalent of a 4k display except that a good DAC will stay high-res and really prove itself when the action gets fast.
> The Amp (and speaker amp) in the X7 is relatively clean and powerful, it's like a 52" display that feels impressive to behold and, combined with the resolution, makes it easy to pick out the different elements of the scene, and is breathtaking with explosions and quiet expansive vistas. It's also as big as you'll likely need in your home, though there are bigger/better.
> Virtual Headphone Surround (provided by SBX here) is like what they wanted to achieve with 3D video... The action leaps off the screen and puts your relative position into the scene, though surround extends beyond your sight and the frame of a TV and really can (with great sound design in a game) put you into the environment of the story, while also portraying depth. This is obviously awesome in horror games, but surprisingly accurate for tracking action in FPS games.


 

 Hey thanks. Yeah i think i will order it and see how well it works.
 One more thing, games that come with a "headphone mode" basically already calculate the 3d sound right? So in that instance it would be better to not use 5.1?


----------



## Evshrug

ritterbutzke said:


> Hey thanks. Yeah i think i will order it and see how well it works.
> 
> One more thing, games that come with a "headphone mode" basically already calculate the 3d sound right? So in that instance it would be better to not use 5.1?



Possibly! Worth experimenting. I want height cues, 5.1/7.1 doesn't really have that, BUT I preferred playing BF3 & BF4 with "home theater" and SBX over Battlefield's "headphone" mode. A sprinkling of games have built-in headphone surround, but usually it's not as good as SBX (I wish OpenAL or TrueAudio was a major marketed part of all games, see my "if I knew then..." thread posed in my signature for details). The Last Of Us may be e exception, but I haven't played that game in a looooong time.


----------



## ritterbutzke

evshrug said:


> Possibly! Worth experimenting. I want height cues, 5.1/7.1 doesn't really have that, BUT I preferred playing BF3 & BF4 with "home theater" and SBX over Battlefield's "headphone" mode. A sprinkling of games have built-in headphone surround, but usually it's not as good as SBX (I wish OpenAL or TrueAudio was a major marketed part of all games, see my "if I knew then..." thread posed in my signature for details). The Last Of Us may be e exception, but I haven't played that game in a looooong time.


 

 Evschrug, have you ever tried yamahas silent cinema for games?
 Just saw that the RX-V377 is about half as much as the X7 here in germany. It seems it has the same burr DAC and i would be able to get lossless audio from my ps4 over hdmi.


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## ritterbutzke

So whats your verdict on the headphone surround?


----------



## Stillhart

ritterbutzke said:


> So whats your verdict on the headphone surround?



He's discussed it many times before. Try searching the thread for silent cinema.


----------



## rudyae86

Random post but if any of you have watched Extant, a sci-fi tv series, in Ep. 12 of the 1st season (only one so far) the geeky guy with glasses who helped build Ethan, is wearing....wait for it...

An AKG K551....

I just wanted to share this lol.

On topic....

I wonder if we will ever get height sound simulation anytime soon? That would really make things feel more immersive and more accurate, compared to what we have now. I was reading how Dolby Atmos does this very well.....for an expensive price of course and so far, it's only available if you buy one of those expensive AV set-up or going to a theater that has it available for certain movie.


----------



## pack21

Finally i was able to order the X7 bomb .


----------



## burritoboy9984

FYI for anyone looking for a very good entry level headphone for gaming, that site that buys *mass* amounts of stuff and *drop*s the price substantially has the Philips SPH9500 for $70 + $7 shipping. These are excellent headphones for gaming that have a detachable 3.5mm cable so you can use a BoomPro.
  
 Erik


----------



## Stillhart

burritoboy9984 said:


> FYI for anyone looking for a very good entry level headphone for gaming, that site that buys *mass* amounts of stuff and *drop*s the price substantially has the Philips SPH9500 for $70 + $7 shipping. These are excellent headphones for gaming that have a detachable 3.5mm cable so you can use a BoomPro.
> 
> Erik


 
  
 Okay 1, not even close to subtle enough.  And 2, Head-fi is cool with Massdrop now.  You can talk about them freely.


----------



## PixelSkills

Is there such thing as an inline amp that boosts the volume that is cheap? I have the new astro mixamp and got the x1 but the volume is just to damn low and I cant afford anything else. Or even a usb dongle that had an in and out that is cheap?


----------



## lenroot77

pixelskills said:


> Is there such thing as an inline amp that boosts the volume that is cheap? I have the new astro mixamp and got the x1 but the volume is just to damn low and I cant afford anything else. Or even a usb dongle that had an in and out that is cheap?




Maybe a fiio e6 would work? However if u can swing it i'd go for an e11. These can often be found in the classifieds for 35-40 dollars. It's suprising to hear u don't have enough volume for your x1's, as everyone seems to say how easy they are to drive.


----------



## PixelSkills

lenroot77 said:


> Maybe a fiio e6 would work? However if u can swing it i'd go for an e11. These can often be found in the classifieds for 35-40 dollars. It's suprising to hear u don't have enough volume for your x1's, as everyone seems to say how easy they are to drive.




I have the volume all the way up and have it turned all the way to game. Its adequete like this but I feel I shouldnt have to turn it all the way up like this.


----------



## Change is Good

pixelskills said:


> I have the volume all the way up and have it turned all the way to game. Its adequete like this but I feel I shouldnt have to turn it all the way up like this.


 
  
 Something has to be wrong with your setup or mixamp. That volume setting you just described should be at ear splitting levels with the X1.


----------



## PixelSkills

change is good said:


> Something has to be wrong with your setup or mixamp. That volume setting you just described should be at ear splitting levels with the X1.




Do you think it could just be thst the new 2015 mixamp is weaker?


----------



## Change is Good

pixelskills said:


> Do you think it could just be thst the new 2015 mixamp is weaker?


 
  
 Not at all. Try contacting Astro or downloading their latest firmware...


----------



## PixelSkills

change is good said:


> Not at all. Try contacting Astro or downloading their latest firmware...




I have the latest firmware. Do you have to have your volume to max if your voice game mix is center?


----------



## lenroot77

Just curious who turns their Dolby headphone/sbx off for 2d side scrollers?

Btw guacamelee is only 5 bucks for ps4 for this weekends flash sale. Fab "metroid-vania" game!


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> Okay 1, not even close to subtle enough.  And 2, Head-fi is cool with Massdrop now.  You can talk about them freely.


 
 Thats what I said to myself right now lol
  
 Anyways.....
  
 SHP9500
  
 Those of you who are on a budget and want to play competitively, this is a good alternative that doesnt require amping and has a detachable cable so you can use the vmoda boompro
  
 I have it, but have not used it since I got my K7XX lol I love the sound from the K7XX.
  
 But if I really want to play more competitively, the SHP9500 would do very well for a cheap price.


----------



## Stillhart

pixelskills said:


> Is there such thing as an inline amp that boosts the volume that is cheap? I have the new astro mixamp and got the x1 but the volume is just to damn low and I cant afford anything else. Or even a usb dongle that had an in and out that is cheap?


 
  
 Are you on XB1 or PS4?  Check the volume settings on the console.
  


lenroot77 said:


> Just curious who turns their Dolby headphone/sbx off for 2d side scrollers?
> 
> Btw guacamelee is only 5 bucks for ps4 for this weekends flash sale. Fab "metroid-vania" game!


 
  
 Guacamelee was free on XB1 with GWG a few months back.  It's a GREAT game, even my wife likes playing it.


----------



## inseconds99

So having my Sound Blaster X7 with my HD 700's for about a week I can say this. I love the sound quality of the unit, music and gaming sound great. As this is my first dabble in virtual surround sound all I can say as that I am unimpressed. I completely dislike how my games sound with SBX enabled. I feel like the game looses all of its fidelity and I find it harder to pinpoint where enemy's are because everything seems so airy and ambient sounds are so present that I feel like footsteps and gunfire are lost to background noise. I have been using this in stereo mode as if I had my headphones plugged right into my PC. I have played Battlefield 4, Titanfall, COD AW and CS Go with SBX enabled and disabled and I am finding no advantages with it on.
  
 I am thinking about returning the X7 as I am not using any of the features, I feel like I should invest in a Schiit stack, O2/Odac or a cheaper amp/dac as that's basically what I am using this X7 for at this point. Maybe I am doing something wrong or my HD 700's just don't do a good job with SBX but I cannot stand having it enabled..
  
 I enable 5.1 in windows, headphone mode in the X7 control panel, have surround sound only enabled at multiple levels and turn on surround sound in the games I am playing and it sounds like even my footsteps are feint and far away. I dislike it a lot.
  
 I hope it is the SBX that I don't like and its not the HD 700's for gaming that is causing the issue. I love them for music and for gaming in stereo but with surround sound enabled the games become non immersive, hollow and sounds feel too far apart.
  
 Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## RRod

inseconds99 said:


> …
> 
> I am thinking about returning the X7 as I am not using any of the features, I feel like I should invest in a Schiit stack, O2/Odac or a cheaper amp/dac as that's basically what I am using this X7 for at this point. Maybe I am doing something wrong or my HD 700's just don't do a good job with SBX but I cannot stand having it enabled..
> 
> ...


 
  
 Algorithms like SBX and Dolby Headphone are based on an "average" dummy head that may or may not match up well with your own head and ear structure, so it's perfectly possible that you may not get an eye-popping experience from them. Headphones interact a bit with the effect: for virtualization under OpenAL, my 3 Senn cans need slightly different profiles for the best surround feeling, although there are some profiles that work pretty well for all 3. Not having an X7, I can't speak for customization options for tailoring the surround sensation, but someone will hopefully speak up.
  
 I like the 700s fine for gaming; at least as much as the 598s but not as much as the 800s (go figure). They work fine with Dolby Headphone for me; haven't tried them with SBX. If you listen to SBX demos on youtube, do you get a better surround feeling? You may also want to try out demos for Dolby Headphone and OpenAL, just to get a sense for how virtual surround sounds. Here's a demo of Rapture3D's version of OpenAL:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4k8qewC_8


----------



## rafagoulart

burritoboy9984 said:


> FYI for anyone looking for a very good entry level headphone for gaming, that site that buys *mass* amounts of stuff and *drop*s the price substantially has the Philips SPH9500 for $70 + $7 shipping. These are excellent headphones for gaming that have a detachable 3.5mm cable so you can use a BoomPro.
> 
> Erik




For gaming the sph 9500 are better than the superlux?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pixelskills said:


> I have the volume all the way up and have it turned all the way to game. Its adequete like this but I feel I shouldnt have to turn it all the way up like this.




You must be deaf if you have it maxed like that. Sorry.

Either that or you somehow have in game volume too low, or PC software volume too low, etc.

The Fiio E5/E6 will NOT help.

What people need to understand is that in order to achieve a considerable volume boost, you need something many times more powerful than your source. Something 2x as powerful can only achieve like a 2db boost (which is nothing) over whatever is powering it currently (i.e. Mixamp). You need something like an E12 at minimum, IMHO, for some headroom.

A bad example, you can have five Fiio E6s attached, and they will still not give you a good volume boost. Power doesn't work that way.


----------



## PixelSkills

mad lust envy said:


> You must be deaf if you have it maxed like that. Sorry.
> 
> Either that or you somehow have in game volume too low, or PC software volume too low, etc.
> 
> ...




There is no in game volume on the ps4 theres no volume settings period that would change the volume through the optical port.


----------



## PixelSkills

Im not sure why the Phillips x1 isnt getting enough power but its not. Has anyone tried the hyper x cloud


----------



## inseconds99

pixelskills said:


> Im not sure why the Phillips x1 isnt getting enough power but its not. Has anyone tried the hyper x cloud




Just ordered the hyperx cloud today as I am not a fan of my HD 700's while gaming. I will check back when I get them and have a chance to try them. I was going to wait 2 weeks when the new cloud 2's come out but it looks like all they did was make the mic a littler better and add a bs use sound card. Although I'd rather have the better mic, I'm hoping that the mic that comes on the cloud can be bought separately at some point.

Now I'm looking for a portable headphone to use with my iPhone and fulfill my hip hop and edm needs. I don't want to to use a portable amp so I'm down to 2 headphones. The pro700mk2 or the beats solo 2. Going to pose this question in the headphone forum in a little bit to get some opinions.


----------



## AxelCloris

pixelskills said:


> Im not sure why the Phillips x1 isnt getting enough power but its not. Has anyone tried the hyper x cloud


 
  
 Yup. Good headset if that's what you need.
  


inseconds99 said:


> Just ordered the hyperx cloud today as I am not a fan of my HD 700's while gaming. I will check back when I get them and have a chance to try them. I was going to wait 2 weeks when the new cloud 2's come out but it looks like all they did was make the mic a littler better and add a bs use sound card. Although I'd rather have the better mic, I'm hoping that the mic that comes on the cloud can be bought separately at some point.


 
  
 The HyperX Cloud is a completely different beast. But the mic that's on it is perfectly fine, you don't need to worry about the upgraded version.


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> Yup. Good headset if that's what you need.
> 
> 
> The HyperX Cloud is a completely different beast. But the mic that's on it is perfectly fine, you don't need to worry about the upgraded version.




I hope so, if you read my opinions a few posts up you'll see why I went in the exact opposite direction from the HD 700's.


----------



## PixelSkills

axelcloris said:


> Yup. Good headset if that's what you need.
> 
> 
> The HyperX Cloud is a completely different beast. But the mic that's on it is perfectly fine, you don't need to worry about the upgraded version.




Do you use the hyper x cloud with the astro mixamp? Does it give it enough power?


----------



## rudyae86

pixelskills said:


> Do you use the hyper x cloud with the astro mixamp? Does it give it enough power?


I'm willing to bet that the Hyper X can run fine with the astro. Mix amp. As for the X1, they should run fine as well. When I had them, I used them with my friends astro and they sounded great. Something is wrong with the either astro or X1.....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative is selling the Limited Edition X7 on Amazon.

I asked for the headphone power ratings at varying ohms, as well as for Creative to clarify the standard X7s's output impedance (Evs, DO NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. Let them answer).

Considering the new one has a 1ohm output, I have a feeling its gonna reduce some warmth, which I dont want happening.

If Creative can at least tell us how much juice both the standard and LE version is pumping out at varying impedance, it would be nice to know, and see how worthwhile it is to get over the standard model.


----------



## RRod

mad lust envy said:


> Creative is selling the Limited Edition X7 on Amazon.
> 
> I asked for the headphone power ratings at varying ohms, as well as for Creative to clarify the standard X7s's output impedance (Evs, DO NOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. Let them answer).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Here's a quote from the GM on the output imp.:
 http://www.eteknix.com/creative-unveils-sound-blaster-x7-limited-edition/
  
 If so then that's not exactly a huge in terms of effect on freq. response for anything but IEMs. I do like how they're "pushing boundaries" down to 1ohm when plenty of other headphone amps do < 1ohm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rrod said:


> Here's a quote from the GM on the output imp.:
> http://www.eteknix.com/creative-unveils-sound-blaster-x7-limited-edition/
> 
> If so then that's not exactly a huge in terms of effect on freq. response for anything but IEMs. I do like how they're "pushing boundaries" down to 1ohm when plenty of other headphone amps do < 1ohm.




Awesome, thank you. That's the first time I've seen a specific quote from Creative about the standard's output impedance. Not that I didn't believe Evs, but I don't fully trust email responses from companies.

Now, if only we can see what both X7's do at:

???mw @ 32ohm
???mw @ 50ohm
???mw @ 300ohm
???mw @ 600ohm


All we've had here is subjective impressions on power. I want some real measurements so as to see what both versions directly compare with.


----------



## PixelSkills

stillhart said:


> Are you on XB1 or PS4?  Check the volume settings on the console.
> 
> 
> Guacamelee was free on XB1 with GWG a few months back.  It's a GREAT game, even my wife likes playing it.




I am on PS4 but where is the volume settings that would effect volume from optical?


----------



## AxelCloris

pixelskills said:


> Do you use the hyper x cloud with the astro mixamp? Does it give it enough power?


 
  
 Tried it directly from a gaming soundcard with Dolby Heapdhone. Didn't try it with the Mixamp, sorry.


----------



## PixelSkills

inseconds99 said:


> So having my Sound Blaster X7 with my HD 700's for about a week I can say this. I love the sound quality of the unit, music and gaming sound great. As this is my first dabble in virtual surround sound all I can say as that I am unimpressed. I completely dislike how my games sound with SBX enabled. I feel like the game looses all of its fidelity and I find it harder to pinpoint where enemy's are because everything seems so airy and ambient sounds are so present that I feel like footsteps and gunfire are lost to background noise. I have been using this in stereo mode as if I had my headphones plugged right into my PC. I have played Battlefield 4, Titanfall, COD AW and CS Go with SBX enabled and disabled and I am finding no advantages with it on.
> 
> I am thinking about returning the X7 as I am not using any of the features, I feel like I should invest in a Schiit stack, O2/Odac or a cheaper amp/dac as that's basically what I am using this X7 for at this point. Maybe I am doing something wrong or my HD 700's just don't do a good job with SBX but I cannot stand having it enabled..
> 
> ...




I have the same issue with Dolby Headphone. It just sounds horrible and really takes away from sq. The weird thing is I tried out the Elite 800 from Turtle Beach which uses dts headphone x and wow was that great. It made voices sound hollow in movies but in games its impressive. Its a shame. The headset is so uncomfortable.


----------



## PixelSkills

Does anyone know if the asus xonar u7 works on PS4? I know ill loose surround sound and other options but am I still able to mix voice and game audio with it as it has seperate controls for both.


----------



## ritterbutzke

Doesn't have an optical in. You could get the sound blaster E5, which i am also considering.


----------



## cdsa35000

inseconds99 said:


> So having my Sound Blaster X7 with my HD 700's for about a week I can say this. I love the sound quality of the unit, music and gaming sound great. As this is my first dabble in virtual surround sound all I can say as that I am unimpressed. I completely dislike how my games sound with SBX enabled. I feel like the game looses all of its fidelity and I find it harder to pinpoint where enemy's are because everything seems so airy and ambient sounds are so present that I feel like footsteps and gunfire are lost to background noise. I have been using this in stereo mode as if I had my headphones plugged right into my PC. I have played Battlefield 4, Titanfall, COD AW and CS Go with SBX enabled and disabled and I am finding no advantages with it on.
> 
> I am thinking about returning the X7 as I am not using any of the features, I feel like I should invest in a Schiit stack, O2/Odac or a cheaper amp/dac as that's basically what I am using this X7 for at this point. Maybe I am doing something wrong or my HD 700's just don't do a good job with SBX but I cannot stand having it enabled..
> 
> ...



Just set SBX= 10% is mostly the best balance between SQ and Out of the head effect.
Any Virtual Surround HP tech influence the SQ badly, thats how the out of phase/head fx mixing works.
But the SBX is the "best" of them because of *adjustability of surround intensity 0%-100%*. and *raw downmixing from 5.1/7.1 to stereo with SBX= OFF*. All other surround HP tech don't do 5.1/7.1 raw downmixing.

You can try different settings which sounds the best.
5.1 in windows audio, 5.1 or 7.1 in-game and SB output panel to headphone or speakers.
If you like stereo SQ better than leave SBX= OFF, SB will just downmix the 5.1 multi audio channels into stereo with the same 2.0 stereo SQ.
In my case with Recon3Dusb when SB set as speakers out, it gives a different SBX SQ layout, processing, the effect is "better" , more clear and less processed.
I can set SBX much higher>10% without too much SQ degration but less out of the head fx, than SB set as headphone out.

More info here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/748785/dolby-home-threater-v4-7-1-vs-sbx-pro-5-1


----------



## RRod

mad lust envy said:


> Awesome, thank you. That's the first time I've seen a specific quote from Creative about the standard's output impedance. Not that I didn't believe Evs, but I don't fully trust email responses from companies.
> 
> Now, if only we can see what both X7's do at:
> 
> ...


 
  
 We just need Schiit to buy Creative, then we'd get some actual online specs. I'd also like to know why it's so hard to have Linux support these days


----------



## AxelCloris

rrod said:


> We just need Schiit to buy Creative, then we'd get some actual online specs. I'd also like to know why it's so hard to have Linux support these days


 
  
 The ROI is just not worth it for most major companies to provide support to Linux.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Awesome, thank you. That's the first time I've seen a specific quote from Creative about the standard's output impedance. Not that I didn't believe Evs, but I don't fully trust email responses from companies.



http://www.creative.com/corporate/pressroom/?id=13449



cdsa35000 said:


> Just set SBX= 10% is mostly the best balance between SQ and Out of the head effect.
> Any Virtual Surround HP tech influence the SQ badly, thats how the out of phase/head fx mixing works.


 Some good info here, I agree with everything except the "best balance" is subjective and will vary from person to person. I recommend trying different percents to find personal preference.


----------



## PixelSkills

Is there any amp/dac combo with mic input and seperate chat/volume control? I give up on surround sound as the astro mixamp just sucks lol. Theres got to be something out there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

10%? Why even bother with virtual surround then. Some people don't understand that these things are mimicking a room, so of course it's gonna be quite different from plain. Horrible, two dimensional stereo.

I'll take my crappy virtual surround and dominate, while you guys take a moment too long figuring out if I'm in front or behind you.

Love it when people gimp themselves. Makes killing them so much easier.

Like i always tell people. Listen to virtual surround exclusively for a week. Don't compare. Just use it. Then go back. See how limited and blinding stereo becomes.

There is always an adjustment period. You can't just try it for one day and already think you got it figured out.

Also, the game being played is a HUGE importance, as some games sound like crap, period.

Then you get the geniuses that put their game in headphone mode, while using surround tech. I mean... COME ON. You literally bought a surround device that takes a speaker setup and converts it for headphone use. What makes you think audio made for standard headphones is gonna function with that?

Sigh. Common sense, and two minutes to read up on what the hell you bought.


----------



## RRod

axelcloris said:


> The ROI is just not worth it for most major companies to provide support to Linux.


 
  
 Bah to them, bah! Not a big deal anyway; AC3 is still a mess to get going and not many games send it out on Linux anyway. Thank god for OpenAL.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> 10%? Why even bother with virtual surround then. Some people don't understand that these things are mimicking a room, so of course it's gonna be quite different from plain. Horrible, two dimensional stereo.
> 
> I'll take my crappy virtual surround and dominate, while you guys take a moment too long figuring out if I'm in front or behind you.
> 
> ...


 

 All I know is that I cant go back to Stereo anymore for games lol.
  
 I leave my settings at 67% for now since it still gives me that immersion yet I can still hear the positional cues well, using my K7XX of course. In the end, the percentage is up to the persons taste. I still try different percentages from time to time, from 67% to 76% and then jump straight to 100%. I have not gone below 67% yet, dont know how much of a difference it will make, especially when I play competitively in BF4 or other FPS games.
  
 Edit: Quick question about the X7, the difference in impedance output from the 2.2ohm to the 1ohm with the limited edition X7, will that make much more of a difference when pairing it with low impedance headphones? I mean, that 1.2ohm difference is enough to change the sonic characteristics of lets say, the Fidelio X1/X2?


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> 10%? Why even bother with virtual surround then. Some people don't understand that these things are mimicking a room, so of course it's gonna be quite different from plain. Horrible, two dimensional stereo.
> 
> I'll take my crappy virtual surround and dominate, while you guys take a moment too long figuring out if I'm in front or behind you.
> 
> ...


 
  
 BUT THEIR BRAINS AUTOCORRECT IN HIGH FIDELITY MODE TOGETHER WITH THEIR LINE OF SIGHT WHILE YOU GAZE IN AWE AT THE ECHO OF THE DEAD WHILE GETTING SHOT FROM A LUCKY BULLET INTO THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD. 
  
 THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD!
 THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD!
 THE BACK OF YOUR HEAD!
  
  
 Oh, no X7 LE in Germany yet. At least it's available in the UK so that could be a good sign for a Festland release.


----------



## Donnyboy98

Is the hd700 much of an upgrade with much noticable improvement from the hd650


----------



## Fegefeuer

I recently wondered why there's so much talk about that abomination of Sennheiser and then I noticed that there seemed to have been quite a few deals regarding this headphone.
  
 The HD 650 is different in tonality but ultimately a much better headphone. If you want to upgrade then go for the HD 800. Don't fall for the 700 because it's Sennheiser and the design seems somewhat similar to the HD 800. Many seem to be trapped by now. Honestly, don't and save up.


----------



## Donnyboy98

The HD800 are almost double the HD700


----------



## RRod

fegefeuer said:


> I recently wondered why there's so much talk about that abomination of Sennheiser and then I noticed that there seemed to have been quite a few deals regarding this headphone.
> 
> The HD 650 is different in tonality but ultimately a much better headphone. If you want to upgrade then go for the HD 800. Don't fall for the 700 because it's Sennheiser and the design seems somewhat similar to the HD 800. Many seem to be trapped by now. Honestly, don't and save up.


 
  
 I wouldn't say the 700 sounds worse than my old 580 (haven't compared to the 650), but it's way overpriced for the sound quality. At $400 new I found it about the right price, not $750.


----------



## Fegefeuer

donnyboy98 said:


> The HD800 are almost double the HD700


 
  
 Yet universes better and your endgame. Get a X7 and do not worry for years (though you'll probably swap opamps sooner or later), have everything for PC and console gaming as well.


----------



## Hapster

I'm about to give up on my mad dogs, I want to love them, but they just hurt my ears when I wear them with glasses for over an hour... 

Oh well, started getting into games where sound is a little more important so I'm thinking about getting the akg k712. The thing I don't get is why it's so much more expensive than the k702 aren't they the same other than the k712 having a little more bass?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard the HD700. I'm gonna assume it takes an adjustment period, and has some weird peaks.

All I know is that it looks hard to comapre to the 650 because their tonalities are like polar opposites. I hate comparing headphones that vare too different. You will always favor the one that falls in line with your own preferences.

Hapster, Massdrop is close to relaunching the K7XX, which should be very similar to the K712 (like very, very similar), and only $200. I'd hold out for that.


----------



## Stillhart

I agree that the HD700 and HD650 are apples and oranges.  They're not really directly comparable.  
  
 For the record, IMO, I thought the HD650 was superior for everything except comfort and gaming.  But why spend $350-750 on an HD700 just for gaming when you can get something like the K7XX or K612 for a fraction of the cost?


----------



## lenroot77

Any opinions on the hd600 vs hd650 for gaming?
From what I gather the 600 has a more neutral sound and is more forgiving with source material. The 650 has more warmth and larger soundstage. 
Or maybe the x2 tops both of these cans?

Just curious as these 3 are on my radar for a future purchase. I have the k7xx's, are they too similar to the 600, 650 or x2's?

I also have to mention that the highs on my dt990s never bothered me in the past. But after a month with the k7xx's... Wow! They can be sharp. Just goes to show u really cannot understand different sound signatures till u have listened to several.


----------



## Change is Good

If you already have the K7XX for gaming, I see no need for you to purchase any of the others you mention. Then again, that's just me. I try to keep it simple, while others own up to 10 or more headphones for various reasons.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> If you already have the K7XX for gaming, I see no need for you to purchase any of the others you mention. Then again, that's just me. I try to keep it simple, while others own up to 10 or more headphones for various reasons.


 

 I agree, get a good pair of headphones for gaming then save up for a pair of the flag ships and a decent dac/headphone amp for listening to music!


----------



## Donnyboy98

Does anyone prefer the Philips Fidelio X2 over either the sennheiser HD 650 or HiFiMAN HE-500?


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> Does anyone prefer the Philips Fidelio X2 over either the sennheiser HD 650 or HiFiMAN HE-500?


 
  
 For what use?  Gaming, I assume?  I haven't heard the X2, but from what I gather from others who have, the X2 should be superior to both of those for gaming.  
  
 The HD650 is too warm with a small soundstage to excel at gaming.  The HE-500 is heavy and hard to drive, tho it could conceivably be pretty good for gaming if you are okay with those limitations.  It's similar to the HE-4 and I know Mad loved those for gaming, but he also used a Schiit Lyr to drive them.
  
 Actually, I do have my Ember hooked up to the PS4 right now.  I should try gaming with my HE-4!  lol


----------



## Donnyboy98

stillhart said:


> For what use?  Gaming, I assume?  I haven't heard the X2, but from what I gather from others who have, the X2 should be superior to both of those for gaming.
> 
> The HD650 is too warm with a small soundstage to excel at gaming.  The HE-500 is heavy and hard to drive, tho it could conceivably be pretty good for gaming if you are okay with those limitations.  It's similar to the HE-4 and I know Mad loved those for gaming, but he also used a Schiit Lyr to drive them.
> 
> Actually, I do have my Ember hooked up to the PS4 right now.  I should try gaming with my HE-4!  lol


 

  Ye its for gaming. What do you mean by heavy? Heavy in weight or sound? I dont mind if its heavy i have a fat head and im sure 500g wouldnt make much difference haha. I was also thinking of the AKG K612 Pro but more likely the K712 Pro.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> For what use?  Gaming, I assume?  I haven't heard the X2, but from what I gather from others who have, the X2 should be superior to both of those for gaming.
> 
> The HD650 is too warm with a small soundstage to excel at gaming.  The HE-500 is heavy and hard to drive, tho it could conceivably be pretty good for gaming if you are okay with those limitations.  It's similar to the HE-4 and I know Mad loved those for gaming, but he also used a Schiit Lyr to drive them.
> 
> Actually, I do have my Ember hooked up to the PS4 right now.  I should try gaming with my HE-4!  lol


 

 Here we go, lol!!!
 What if it makes you take the HE4 off the FS thread?!? jk, overall I know you loved it when you got it, but have since moved on.


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> Ye its for gaming. What do you mean by heavy? Heavy in weight or sound? I dont mind if its heavy i have a fat head and im sure 500g wouldnt make much difference haha. I was also thinking of the AKG K612 Pro but more likely the K712 Pro.


 
  
 I mean physically heavy, weight not sound.  The AKG's are a known factor around here, plenty of talk if you want to search the thread.
  


evshrug said:


> Here we go, lol!!!
> What if it makes you take the HE4 off the FS thread?!? jk, overall I know you loved it when you got it, but have since moved on.


 
  
 Nah, it's overkill to use the HE-4 and Project Ember just for gaming.  The Q701 + a cheap desktop amp will be just as good for less than half the price.


----------



## Donnyboy98

stillhart said:


> I mean physically heavy, weight not sound.  The AKG's are a known factor around here, plenty of talk if you want to search the thread.
> 
> 
> Nah, it's overkill to use the HE-4 and Project Ember just for gaming.  The Q701 + a cheap desktop amp will be just as good for less than half the price.



Its a shame there isnt any places to try out headphones for specifically gaming. So as i dont care about weight the he500 would be a better choice? The a
K712 pro have insanely good pads


----------



## Change is Good

Birds of a feather, flock together...


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> Its a shame there isnt any places to try out headphones for specifically gaming. So as i dont care about weight the he500 would be a better choice? The a
> K712 pro have insanely good pads


 
  
 I've never used an HE-500.  I'm going off the fact that people say it's very similar to the HE-4.  I'm not sure why you want to force a square peg into a round hole, but yes, it should be decent for gaming if you want to try hard enough.  Better than the X2 or AKG?  Can't say, but my guess is that it's probably not better enough to warrant buying a nice amp to drive them.
  
 I mean... if you 're just using it exclusively for gaming, it seems like a poor choice.  If you plan on using it for other things, it might be worth the effort.  It's apparently a great-sounding headphone that is beloved by many.
  
 I don't know why so many people feel the need to jump up to expensive cans like the K712 and HE-500 and HD700 for gaming ONLY.  There are tried and true cans like the Q701 or AD700 or HD598 that will give you 95-105% of the gaming performance for less than $200.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yup. for the sole purpose of gaming, something like the K612 Pro is all that's needed. You really do not have to spend hundreds of dollars for sheer gaming enjoyment. In fact, even the K612 Pro could be overkill.

Still, having not heard the HE500, but seen a billion impressions on it, I don't think it's all too similar to the HE-4 tonally. The HE-4 falls under a slight v-shaped sound, while the HE-500 seems to have a particularly fluid midrange, and warmth. I don't know myself, but I'd say it's different enough to not call them similar

Sorry guys, I know I been slow on the X2 review. I had full intention to write the review this past weekend, but I've been under the weather, and my head has been so congested, I can't stomach putting on headphones, atm. I'm sure headphone.guru has been waiting forever... I promised i'd have the full review done ages ago. This Florida weather is doing a number on me. All i can say is the X2 is totally worth it for all purposes.

http://headphone.guru/product-of-the-year-2014-reviewer-picks/2/

It was my 2014 product of the year. I seriously can't think of something worth recommending more, due it's mass appeal.


----------



## gab840

mad lust envy said:


> Yup. for the sole purpose of gaming, something like the K612 Pro is all that's needed. You really do not have to spend hundreds of dollars for sheer gaming enjoyment. In fact, even the K612 Pro could be overkill.
> 
> Still, having not heard the HE500, but seen a billion impressions on it, I don't think it's all too similar to the HE-4 tonally. The HE-4 falls under a slight v-shaped sound, while the HE-500 seems to have a particularly fluid midrange, and warmth. I don't know myself, but I'd say it's different enough to not call them similar
> 
> ...


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> I've never used an HE-500.  I'm going off the fact that people say it's very similar to the HE-4.  I'm not sure why you want to force a square peg into a round hole, but yes, it should be decent for gaming if you want to try hard enough.  Better than the X2 or AKG?  Can't say, but my guess is that it's probably not better enough to warrant buying a nice amp to drive them.
> 
> I mean... if you 're just using it exclusively for gaming, it seems like a poor choice.  If you plan on using it for other things, it might be worth the effort.  It's apparently a great-sounding headphone that is beloved by many.
> 
> I don't know why so many people feel the need to jump up to expensive cans like the K712 and HE-500 and HD700 for gaming ONLY.  There are tried and true cans like the Q701 or AD700 or HD598 that will give you 95-105% of the gaming performance for less than $200.


 
  
 @Still Hart : Will answer your query & thoughts below :
 @Mad-lust : Your statement of saying the same is correct in only One context. And that is that K612 pro are very good Headphones for Gaming especially.
 But saying that its overkill is really wrong . Why?
  
  
 Gaming has a lot things going on. First is sound which is the sound of the world around you , the enviromental sounds where lot of things are going on depending on the game (just think of a game based upon War how many things will going on in background ..rattling of guns , bombarding of many things,jets flying etc , a lot of micro-details here & there) . Then the sound of your actions Guns, Swords , Magic whatever it is. Then the background Music which every game contains ,which all is made up fo very high quality fidelity.Then their comes handling the positional accuracy of so many things including surround sound. Comptetive gaming is also a thing lying there.
 All in one thing..require a good setup of headphones , Also sometime Game has very complex passages sometimes same as many music does have.
 If a person wants high quality Sound & Music obviously he will want to go to Higher end cans .So your statement saying its overkill is really bad. If thats overkill then why do people go for higher end cans for the sole purpose of Music. There isn't any need as these cans K612 n others can handle them also to a very good extent.
 They go for a higher end to enjoy much better bass , better quality Mids N Treble , better dynamics better fidelity & tonality etc. which is equivalently important to enjoy Music as well as Gaming. I dunno why you are differentiating Gaming so much.
 They always have been having high quality music , High quality sound & all within them & better cans will provide better experience.
 So consumers want to have a more better exp. in Gaming too like they want in Music. Music & Music in Gaming go hand-by-hand.
 And when Madlust you yourself have been reviewing so much of Cans for Gaming esp. (also for music) including the high end cans.
 Nothing to offend you but a renowned personality like you saying such changes the opinion of many esp. when it comes related to Gaming.Your Guidance has always helped us & will keep on Helping us.I too wanted many more reviews by an experienced user like you which has always helped us and personally helped me to decide on Cans (personally have gone through your review page many times reading about all Headphones again & again). Just wanted to say sound & music in Gaming is equally important as Sole Music/Songs does to masses.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh I'm not saying to not go for the better headphones. I'm just saying that if someone is just worried about great gaming performance, something like the 612 is a fantastic choice, and doesn't break the bank. You're not getting a huge performance upgrade by going with anything else I have reviewed, regardless of price range. After cans like the 612, diminishing returns hits quite hard. You're getting a whole lot of performance there.

This is why I love all rounders. I want them to be good for all purposes, even if it may not be the best in one area. But it will have, gaming, movies, music, tv shows all well presented. Gaming oriented sound, may be a bit lacking in warmth for my taste, despite it being better for the sheer purpose of gaming.

You really don't need to stress what's a huge improvement over headphones that cost $200, because, frankly, nothing is gonna be an astronomical leap. People may wanna justify their exorbitant purchases, but I've dabbled in the high end, and still feel it's best to cut off around the $200-400 range for headphones. Stuff like the DT880, MA900, X1, HD650, Q701, etc, have been exceptional performers.

Even if I could afford an HD800, I wouldn't ever find myself getting one just because it may be the absolute best for hardcore gaming. There are plenty of headphones at a fraction of the cost that can do amazingly well on all fronts.

I've been happier with the X2 than I ever was with the LCD2 and even the D7000. Not because it's better, but because it does so incredibly well, at a fraction of the price. I also don't have to deal with the uncomfortable weight, the leather pads, etc.


----------



## gab840

Ya right with the prices going high the actual improvements worth it are there or not, is still a topic of discussion among Head-Fiers esp. evaluating them according to their price-point.
 I too think many HP's are priced high and many perform almost equal to them being at half price etc. to them


----------



## Donnyboy98

Are you planning on reviewing the x2? People have been surprised by the improvement.
Which do you prefer gaming with the DT990 pro, x1 ( but in ny case id get the x2) hd650 or either of the akgs?


----------



## Hapster

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't heard the HD700. I'm gonna assume it takes an adjustment period, and has some weird peaks.
> 
> All I know is that it looks hard to comapre to the 650 because their tonalities are like polar opposites. I hate comparing headphones that vare too different. You will always favor the one that falls in line with your own preferences.
> 
> Hapster, Massdrop is close to relaunching the K7XX, which should be very similar to the K712 (like very, very similar), and only $200. I'd hold out for that.


 

 Interesting. Thanks, if my Mad Dog sells though (which I've already got offers on) I might have to pick up one sooner than Mid February.
  
 Speaking of which, I just missed a 'mint condition' Akg k712 Pro with a silver OCC cable on eBay for $255 :~|
  
 Anyway, looking forward to the X2 Review, that might be another option for me.


----------



## conquerator2

Game recommendation for side-scroller RPG fans: Dust: an Elysian Tail. Love it to hell. Maybe I am a teeny bit late, but it is a hidden gem and a great game. It's on PS4, PC and 360. Played it on PS4.
 Anyway, as for headphones, the K612 is certainly a great gaming headphone with massive soundstage compared to my HE-560. But I also listen to music, where the K612 was not perfect IMO. Now I use the HE-560 for both. There was an adjustment period for me, but I don't feel crippled by the smaller soundstage anymore, because it is still decent enough and very open/expansive. The imaging and cue accuracy are a very contributing factor too.
 Just went through some 20 pages to catch on... Be well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 I also can't get this tune outta my head - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXLX9D8ibU


----------



## Change is Good

Second drop for the K7XX is now live.


----------



## Donnyboy98

Audio Technica ATH-M50X or Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro for traveling?


----------



## Hapster

change is good said:


> Second drop for the K7XX is now live.


 

 Oh damn, it is.
  
 I might just buy it right now, honestly. It's supposed to be a lot closer to the K712 than the K702 right? I hope they're comfortable, even with glasses.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Second drop for the K7XX is now live.


 
  
 Super tempting, but I don't think it will be a big step up from the Q701... highly recommended for anyone looking for something in that price range right now tho!


----------



## Evshrug

Gab840,
You have a point, but so does Mad. So, games have very fun audio and carefully composed music, and other audio, but there is compression to the source files already. That's why I often point out that Dolby surround isn't really a big deal, the nuances of uncompressed audio aren't in the game's files anyway. So, there comes a point while gaming where you can't really dig out any more detail/resolution, but you can pay more for a different flavor to the sound.

Mad writes these reviews so people have a sense of the headphones' sound characteristics, but higher end headphones are better suited to people who have already heard competent headphones and figured out what character they might like... Gamers who are new to headphones are better served by a competent Mid-Fi headphone, and use that as a reference if they decide to get deeper into the headphone hobby. The K612 is a very satisfying headphone, so are many of the other Mid-Fi champs. This is my suggestion, however some people will be content with monitor speakers and some people will just try to jump straight to their idea of "best possible."


----------



## Hapster

stillhart said:


> Super tempting, but I don't think it will be a big step up from the Q701... highly recommended for anyone looking for something in that price range right now tho!




After some more reading it's literally a black k712 with 65th anni pads actually.


----------



## Change is Good

hapster said:


> After some more reading it's literally a black k712 with 65th anni pads actually.




No, the K712 has different drivers and sounds slightly different. The K7XX is based off the Annie.


----------



## Stillhart

hapster said:


> After some more reading it's literally a black k712 with 65th anni pads actually.


 
  
 Yup, meaning it's worth far more than the $200 asking price.
  
 EDIT - Whether it's based off the K702 or K712, it's still worth more than $200.


----------



## lenroot77

The k7xx's are back up on mass drop if anyone is looking.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> Yup, meaning it's worth far more than the $200 asking price.
> 
> EDIT - Whether it's based off the K702 or K712, it's still worth more than $200.




Could you make any comparisons between the massdrop and the HD 700's? I don't know if you've heard them or if you've heard the k702 Annie's which are close to the massdrops but if you have could you provide some feedback comparing the 2. 

I'm thinking of returning or selling my 700's as price per performance is not there. I just joined the drop and am hoping these are on par with the bass response of the 700's without the treble peak of the 700's.


----------



## flomofo

Seeing if you guys have some input on my possible setup.
  
 Read the reviews and went with a Q701 and sound card for PC gaming but am now stuck on my Xbox One setup.
  
 I want to run my Q701 and possibly a new Fidelio X2 with a mixamp pro on my Xbox One.  But this will require buying quite a few adapters and having a long run of wires from my entertainment center to my seating position as the Xbox is in the living room.
  
 Would you guys find a way to make it happen with all those wires and the mixamp pro or just spring for the A50 Gen2 setup and call it a day? If I go wire crazy then a refurb A40/mix amp pro package seems like the cheapest way to go as the new 2015 mixamp pro does not appear to be any different. 
  
 I have hours of research into both and feel kind of stuck only because I dont know what all the extra wiring will be like to deal with.


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> Could you make any comparisons between the massdrop and the HD 700's? I don't know if you've heard them or if you've heard the k702 Annie's which are close to the massdrops but if you have could you provide some feedback comparing the 2.
> 
> I'm thinking of returning or selling my 700's as price per performance is not there. I just joined the drop and am hoping these are on par with the bass response of the 700's without the treble peak of the 700's.


 
  
 I haven't heard the K7XX or Annie or K712.  But I have the Q701.  And from speaking with @Evshrug, who has owned the K712, Q701 and K612 at the same time, it seems the difference isn't huge. 
  
 So with a grain of salt:  For the price difference between the K7XX and the HD700 (even at $350), I think the K7XX is a no-brainer.  But I didn't like the HD700 and got rid of it after a couple weeks, whereas the Q701 is the first headphone I got after joining Head-fi and I've had it for almost a year.
  
  


flomofo said:


> Seeing if you guys have some input on my possible setup.
> 
> Read the reviews and went with a Q701 and sound card for PC gaming but am now stuck on my Xbox One setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I struggled with the same problem (XB1 in living room and not wanting a long cable run).  The first solution that worked for me was getting a Recon3D instead of a Mixamp.  This has a single ribbon cable that runs across the floor with an adapter to plug in all three plugs at the end.  The wire mess stays confined to your lap and there's only one long cord to worry about.
  
 Eventually, I snagged a cheap Mixamp 5.8 on eBay.  After lurking on it for a few months, I got a great deal (something like $35-40 shipped).  This also has a big wire mess in my lap, but no wire across the floor.  
  
 I don't think you'll be happy with the A50 or A40 after hearing the X2 and Q701.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> I haven't heard the K7XX or Annie or K712.  But I have the Q701.  And from speaking with @Evshrug
> , who has owned the K712, Q701 and K612 at the same time, it seems the difference isn't huge.
> 
> So with a grain of salt:  For the price difference between the K7XX and the HD700 (even at $350), I think the K7XX is a no-brainer.  But I didn't like the HD700 and got rid of it after a couple weeks, whereas the Q701 is the first headphone I got after joining Head-fi and I've had it for almost a year.




Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I am reading as well, the one thing I do like about the 700's is the bass response. I feel like it's pretty deep and punch considering it's open design. I don't want to lose that with the purchase of a new headphone. The 7xx is 2-300 cheaper then what I paid for the HD 700's. I Know it's reaching but I'm hoping that the 7xx is 90% as good as the HD 700's and at least have the same bass response as the HD 700s.


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, that's what I am reading as well, the one thing I do like about the 700's is the bass response. I feel like it's pretty deep and punch considering it's open design. I don't want to lose that with the purchase of a new headphone. The 7xx is 2-300 cheaper then what I paid for the HD 700's. I Know it's reaching but I'm hoping that the 7xx is 90% as good as the HD 700's and at least have the same bass response as the HD 700s.


 
  
 I never directly compared the two, so it's hard for me to say.  I know I wasn't particularly blown away by the bass on the HD700 and that's probably because I was comparing it against the HE-4 at the time.  Maybe @Evshrug can comment later as he still has the HD700 and K712.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone play titanfall? Good stuff? Hows the sound?

12.50 for the deluxe edition seems like a deal too good to pass up.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone play titanfall? Good stuff? Hows the sound?
> 
> 12.50 for the deluxe edition seems like a deal too good to pass up.


 
  
 Titanfall is AWESOME.  $12.50 is a steal and anyone who doesn't have it yet should totally be grabbing it.  The directional sound is really good... you can hear bullets whizzing by your head and pick out the direction of the shooter.  And if you have a "fun" headphone like the X1, you'll love when a Titan walks by.
  
 Man, I need to play that game some more.  It's been too long.  But I just got a HOTS beta key and I'm binging on that right now...


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> Titanfall is AWESOME.  $12.50 is a steal and anyone who doesn't have it yet should totally be grabbing it.  The directional sound is really good... you can hear bullets whizzing by your head and pick out the direction of the shooter.  And if you have a "fun" headphone like the X1, you'll love when a Titan walks by.
> 
> Man, I need to play that game some more.  It's been too long.  But I just got a HOTS beta key and I'm binging on that right now...




I got it for 5 bucks  PC master race lol.

But honestly, I like the game. For 10 to 12 bucks, it's still a bargain. Anything above it...Hmmm you have to consider the additional cost for the expansion packs as well or the season pass, which I don't have yet.

But the sound is really good when I use my K7XX. Titans sound cool, explosions everywhere. Its quick fun...which is why I only play it for a bit because it gets a bit repetitive in some sort of way after hour...for me at least.


----------



## flomofo

stillhart said:


> I struggled with the same problem (XB1 in living room and not wanting a long cable run).  The first solution that worked for me was getting a Recon3D instead of a Mixamp.  This has a single ribbon cable that runs across the floor with an adapter to plug in all three plugs at the end.  The wire mess stays confined to your lap and there's only one long cord to worry about.
> 
> Eventually, I snagged a cheap Mixamp 5.8 on eBay.  After lurking on it for a few months, I got a great deal (something like $35-40 shipped).  This also has a big wire mess in my lap, but no wire across the floor.
> 
> I don't think you'll be happy with the A50 or A40 after hearing the X2 and Q701.


 
  
 I appreciate it.  If I knew I could be happy with just convenience I would have already gone with Turtle Beach 500X's which are the first true wireless headphones for the xbox.
  
 I also never heard about the Recon3D and I have their top end card in my PC.
  
 Which of those options would you recommend? I was only looking at the MixAmp Pro (new or used since I dont think there is a difference).


----------



## Hapster

Could you at least mention which Headphone would be better for Trance music (progressive electronic [Needs a lot of sub bass])? The AKG K7XX or the Philips Fidelio X2.
  
 I'm really tied between them right now, I can pick up the Fidelio on eBay for $300 and the AKG K7XX for $200.
  
 Not sure how I'll get a  mic working on the fidelio (It doesn't have a removable cable, does it?), maybe I'll have to use the Antlion Modmic so that's an extra $40 to throw on top of the Fidelio. With the AKG K7XX, there's converters out there that will let me plug my V-moda boom pro mic into them.


----------



## Stillhart

flomofo said:


> I appreciate it.  If I knew I could be happy with just convenience I would have already gone with Turtle Beach 500X's which are the first true wireless headphones for the xbox.
> 
> I also never heard about the Recon3D and I have their top end card in my PC.
> 
> Which of those options would you recommend? I was only looking at the MixAmp Pro (new or used since I dont think there is a difference).


 
  
 Well I still have both the Recon and Mixamp 5.8 and I'm using the Mixamp in my living room now, so that should tell you my answer.  But the 5.8 is kind of difficult to get your hands on right now.  So if you can't find it or can't get a good price, the Recon is definitely a decent alternative.
  


hapster said:


> Could you at least mention which Headphone would be better for Trance music (progressive electronic [Needs a lot of sub bass])? The AKG K7XX or the Philips Fidelio X2.
> 
> I'm really tied between them right now, I can pick up the Fidelio on eBay for $300 and the AKG K7XX for $200.
> 
> Not sure how I'll get a  mic working on the fidelio (It doesn't have a removable cable, does it?), maybe I'll have to use the Antlion Modmic so that's an extra $40 to throw on top of the Fidelio. With the AKG K7XX, there's converters out there that will let me plug my V-moda boom pro mic into them.


 
  
 You can use the Boompro with the X1 and X2... it's one of the big advantages of those cans for gaming.
  
 I'd guess the X2 is better for bass, based on hearing the X1 and the Q701.  But I haven't heard the X2 or the K7XX so grain of salt, YMMV, IMO, etc.


----------



## Hapster

stillhart said:


> Well I still have both the Recon and Mixamp 5.8 and I'm using the Mixamp in my living room now, so that should tell you my answer.  But the 5.8 is kind of difficult to get your hands on right now.  So if you can't find it or can't get a good price, the Recon is definitely a decent alternative.
> 
> 
> You can use the Boompro with the X1 and X2... it's one of the big advantages of those cans for gaming.
> ...


 

 Alright, thanks, didn't know you could pop off the cable. The K7XX has 3db more, but, c'mon, based on the original amount, that's barely anything, especially if they were lacking in the first place...
  
 Alright, I'll go read some reviews since that changes the costs to $210 & $300.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K7XX will have full bass, but still fairly linear sounding. The X2 has a romantic emphasis on mid bass, and is immediately more engaging on the bass. I would prefer the X2 over both the K712 and Annie as far as bass is concerned.


----------



## Hapster

mad lust envy said:


> The K7XX will have full bass, but still fairly linear sounding. The X2 has a romantic emphasis on mid bass, and is immediately more engaging on the bass. I would prefer the X2 over both the K712 and Annie as far as bass is concerned.


 

 Alright, went ahead and ordered the X2 off of eBay. Should be here in 2 weeks max (Overseas sellers :/)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

May be putting up the Mixamp 5.8 with the rechargeable battery pack for sale soon. So if anyone is interested here, pm me.

OLED PS Vita
Slim PS3

As well.

Selling these things should put me close to an X7 later. I just need a bit more info from Creative about the power both X7s have.


----------



## Evshrug

Better than a Mixamp or E17, I'm sure. Probably as much as an e9?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got a couple of pms already. I'll take pics of what I'm selling soon.

Should be:

1st gen OLED Vita + 8gb memory card + protective case + Vita supplied charger and it's proprietary USB cable. No games, as I downloaded mine from PSN. Probably $120 + shipping, as that's what it seems to be going for.


Mixamp 5.8 Tx and Rx + rechargeable battery pack (this by itself cost me over $15) + Long USB + Long optical + all the crap the 5.8 comes with like the Y cables, 3.5mm to 2.5mm cables, etc. You will have to supply your own chat cable, as I'm keeping my Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable for when I get the X7 or whatever. This is the cable not sold with the Mixamp, that goes from the CONTROLLER to the Mixamp RX unit, *NOT* the one that goes from the back of the TX unit to the PS3/PS4 via USB, as that one is rare, and not even Astro sells it. I have to see what else I have for this anyways. I'll sell it for $100 total + shipping.

So you guys don't think I'm upselling or whatever on the Mixamp, I bought mine for $150, WITHOUT THE BATTERY PACK OR CABLE. I paid around $200 just to have my Mixamp 5.8 setup.




PS3 = slim system (160gb) + ds3 controller + HDMI + power adapter = $100 + shipping


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Got a couple of pms already. I'll take pics of what I'm selling soon.
> 
> Should be:
> 
> ...




Very interested in the vita sir!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stillhart has dibs, since he messaged me first, but I'll let you know.

I'll be holding out until I get those power specs at some point for the X7. I haven't been console gaming almost at all, and since my laptop has THX Tru Studio built in, I don't need a virtual surround device for now.

I haven't been using headphones much lately due to the head congestion. That's partially why I've been holding on to the X2 review, since I haven't had a crapton of head time with them for like the past 2 weeks now.


----------



## Costcosaurus

Is the ModMic 4.0 worth the price if I'm only going to be using it for voice chat in online gaming and some Skype calling?
  
 It is pretty damn expensive at $55 including shipping.


----------



## Hapster

You could get a logitech usb mic or something cheap like that, the mod mic is only useful for FPS gaming where you can't be leaning in to talk into a mic.


----------



## Costcosaurus

hapster said:


> You could get a logitech usb mic or something cheap like that, the mod mic is only useful for FPS gaming where you can't be leaning in to talk into a mic.


 
  
 FPS games are what I play the most though.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Stillhart has dibs, since he messaged me first, but I'll let you know.
> 
> I'll be holding out until I get those power specs at some point for the X7. *I haven't been console gaming almost at all*, and since my laptop has THX Tru Studio built in, I don't need a virtual surround device for now.
> 
> I haven't been using headphones much lately due to the head congestion. That's partially why I've been holding on to the X2 review, since I haven't had a crapton of head time with them for like the past 2 weeks now.




Holla at me when you leave console gaming all together and decide to sell that PS4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, that will never happen. I'm just waiting for the good exclusives.


----------



## Change is Good

Bloodborne is on the top of my list for most anticipated exclusives this year.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> ...
> So you guys don't think I'm upselling or whatever on the Mixamp, I bought mine for $150, WITHOUT THE BATTERY PACK OR CABLE. I paid around $200 just to have my Mixamp 5.8 setup.



I got my Mixamp 5.8 in a bundle with A30's, $240 at the Microsoft Store but they had it at a one-time 50% off sale around May... At the same time they were selling a bundle with white A30's, still at full price.

In case anyone's curious about the A30, I thought it was decently comfortable from the velour Earpads, it arrived with the left driver unattached to the earcup so it clicked around if I shook my head and was all messed up compared to the right driver. I contacted Astro Support and they exchanged the A30 for me, but the replacement sounded just like the right driver had on the old set, honestly the Koss KSC75 sounded more detailed and enjoyable, however my buddies on the Xbox 360 said the mic was recording good sound.

There's a cheap GoPro usb-to-3.5mm mic cable on Amazon that has me wondering if it could replicate the USB Chat feature.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, lemme buy dat battery pack off ya.


----------



## calpis

I'm wondering about the X7 myself since it seems to be marketed directly at me. I still have my mstage and also using an SMSL SA-98e to power my bookshelf speakers for PC use. An X7 would cut down my cable clutter that I have now by A LOT since I'd be deleting the amp, head amp, and odac/U1. 
  
 The only difference between the X7 and X7 LE is the paint job and upgraded power brick right? I see that creative is selling the upgraded power brick for $130 on amazon and I bet you can use the same spec'd ones on ebay that only cost around $40 as an alternative.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Output impedance is lower as well, albeit "only" at 1Ohm. A safer choice for 16 Ohm headphones though. 
 Now the only question is output power per impedance and when the damn thing will be available in Deutschland.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, lemme buy dat battery pack off ya.


 That defeats the prupose of me selling the whole thing. :/

Ebay sells batt packs for $15.

If anyone is interested in a badass open/bassy/ultra comfy headphone, I'll be selling my Ultrasone 15G for like chump change ($50 total), since I have not touched it in an eternity, and it's an absolute waste for it not to be used.

Definitely a very good, immersive gaming can. I should probably put up my E17 as well for a similar price.


----------



## AxelCloris

Change, I use this battery. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MQ1NP6/ The photo is misleading, I received the actual Astro 1800mAh battery, not some third party one like what's shown. Works like a champ for me and under $16 shipped (prime).


----------



## Change is Good

^Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's absolutely essential for the 5.8 to have a battery pack, because it eats up batteries otherwise, and it makes stupid noises when no batteries are plugged in and you're hooked up via USB.

Unlike literally everything else out there, the Mixamp seems to drain the battery pack A LOT LESS than standard batteries, which seem to die in a few short hours.

As for power brick swap for the X7... is it really all that's needed to transfer all that extra power to the headphones/speakers? I'm QUITE skeptical about that, not to mention the difference in output impedance is also a factor. I think I'd just play it safe and buy the LE from the get go, though not sure I'd like the 1ohm output, when 2.2 was just fine.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I already have a battery pack (came with the one I bought), I just wanted an extra one for when the other goes dead.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's absolutely essential for the 5.8 to have a battery pack, because it eats up batteries otherwise, and it makes stupid noises when no batteries are plugged in and you're hooked up via USB.
> 
> Unlike literally everything else out there, the Mixamp seems to drain the battery pack A LOT LESS than standard batteries, which seem to die in a few short hours.




Yeah, it's weird, I used standard alkaline batteries and it lasted for like... 2 gaming nights, 3? I forget why I didn't use rechargable duracells, but I plugged the USB into a little phone power bank battery I have... No increase in noise there, but the battery lasted for_ever_ (less hyperbole: hours of nightly gaming, lasted over a week and I lost track).


----------



## LeonFi

Hi,
  
 I currently have a pair of Creative Live Aurvana 2s, but I have a problem with how loud they make my own voice sound when I'm talking with them on (no sound is being played back through the headphones, it is my actual voice that becomes loud and boomy inside my head). It's a physical characteristic of something encompassing my ear.
  
 To hear what I am describing, try talking whilst clasping your hands tightly over your ears, it makes your voice sound really loud and bassy (at least it does for me!), but if you let even a small bit of gap appear in the seal around your ears then your voice will start to sound much more normal.
  
 The problem is that it makes my voice sound so loud that it drowns out the sound from the headphones, i.e. not ideal for competitive gaming or immersion in general. I tried making a bit of a hacked solution by taping part of the cup flat to create an air gap, and that improved things quite a bit, but the sound quality is adversely affected by this, presumably since the headphones weren't designed to be used like that!
  
 Could open-back headphones be a solution for me? I was thinking of either the AD700X or the HD598. If anyone has either of those, and a pair of closed-back, full-sized, circumaural headphones (preferably the Aurvana Live 2!) could you do me a huge favour and try and see if there is any difference in how it makes your voice sound when wearing them? How do those headphones compare to the Aurvana Live 2?
  
 Cheers,
  
 Leon


----------



## Donnyboy98

leonfi said:


> Hi,
> 
> I currently have a pair of Creative Live Aurvana 2s, but I have a problem with how loud they make my own voice sound when I'm talking with them on (no sound is being played back through the headphones, it is my actual voice that becomes loud and boomy inside my head). It's a physical characteristic of something encompassing my ear.
> 
> ...


 

 For gaming around that price range the DT 990 pro is a much better option. Detail is amazing from what people say and will be more comfortable than the AD700X. The HD598 is more of a music headphone rather than gaming but the DT 990 pro is more gaming than music (dont get me wrong it will sound great doing both)


----------



## Stillhart

donnyboy98 said:


> For gaming around that price range the DT 990 pro is a much better option. Detail is amazing from what people say and will be more comfortable than the AD700X. The HD598 is more of a music headphone rather than gaming but the DT 990 pro is more gaming than music (dont get me wrong it will sound great doing both)


 
 Per the guide at the beginning of this thread:
  
 AD700 - 10/10 Competitive (Legendary)
 DT990 - 8/10 Competitive (Great)
 HD598 - 9.25/10 Competitive (Amazing)
  
 I know Mad says not to directly compare ratings, I just wanted to point out that your advice doesn't seem to match up with Mad's reviews.  I haven't heard the other two, but I found the treble on the DT990 to be physically uncomfortable after about one minute of use.  The bass was epic tho...
  
 EDIT - To answer the original question, yes an open headphone should help with your issue.


----------



## Donnyboy98

We all have our own opinions but you may be right i havent tried any either.


----------



## Evshrug

Leon-Fi,
What you described is classic to closed headphones. Some options: Audio Technica AD700x, Sennheiser HD598, AKG K612... All very good, and around the $150 price. 

The AD700x is the least amp picky and the lightest weight (I found the AD700 VERY COMFORTABLE after rubber-banding the headband wings together, little headband arc bending).
The AKG K612 scales up the most with better amp/DAC gear and will grow with you but may lack "life" without at least a decent amp and has a no-fuss comfort factor where it auto adjusts to your head size and the Earpads are big enough to not rest on your ears (just on your head, around the ears).
The Sennheiser HD598 is unique looking and has a sound like a German car... Not super exciting but neither boring not glaring faults, 
Is also pretty light but known for a firm clamp (many still find it very comfortable long-term). I haven't heard the DT990... There's a "pro" version on sale right now (meaning quite strong clamping force, maybe a different fit and finish and sound tuning), but I have heard a DT880 which is less extreme in coloring the sound and I still found it not very neutral, you might live it but the treble made my ears hurt.

As usual, all have +/- points.


----------



## Accurs3D

So I'm in the market for a new pair of gaming headphones (~85%) that will be also be used for listening to some music (mostly electronica) and watching videos some of the time. I'm interested in the DT 990 Pros, the K701s/K702s/Q701 and the AD700s. I'm not quite sure what to get, and in the case of the DT 990s, I'm not sure if I should spring for the higher ohm versions.
 The Beyerdynamics and AKGs seem to be more "fun" sounding than the AD700s which is a plus because I do occasionally use my headphones for things other than gaming. Oh yeah, the AD700s also look kind of ugly compared the BTs and AKGs.
  
 If I do go for the DT 990 250 or 600 ohm variants, then I'd also look at getting an amp such as the Schiit Magni 2. Initially, my choice of DAC was the FiiO E10K but then I figured out that it wouldn't drive higher impedance headphones nearly as well as the Schiit would (no pun intended). If there's a good sub $100 option then I'll gladly look into it.
  
 What do you guys think?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get the K7XX from Massdrop
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones


----------



## pack21

I got the monster. 

Can't wait to go home and game with it. 

For now i dont noticed any issue with the two 16 ohm iem I have try with X7.

 My K702 and MA900 are in fleas by new toy. I also want to see how it behaves my new Sennheiser MX985 for gaming with SBX surround.


----------



## oscarc

fegefeuer said:


> Get the K7XX from Massdrop
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones


 
 I am intrigued by the K7XX. When does Massdrop charge your card? Is it like Amazon where you only get charged once the drop ships in March?


----------



## Stillhart

oscarc said:


> I am intrigued by the K7XX. When does Massdrop charge your card? Is it like Amazon where you only get charged once the drop ships in March?


 
  
 No, I believe they charge when you join the drop (in this case since it's already at the lowest price).


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Anyone know where to purchase some x2's? Amazon is out


----------



## LeonFi

Thanks Stillhart and Donnyboy98, I will try and locate these and try them out this weekend.


----------



## LeonFi

Evsshrug, thanks for the clarifying that what I am experience is likely a closed headphone thing. I'll add the AKG K612 to my headphone hunt this weekend. Cheers!


----------



## flomofo

Massdrop Fidelio X2 request anyone?


----------



## lenroot77

doctacosmos said:


> Anyone know where to purchase some x2's? Amazon is out




??? 
I'd like to know too, seeing as google shopping doesn't give too many options.


----------



## Stillhart

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-X2-FIDELIO-HEADPHONE-BOXED-SEALED-BRAND-NEW-/181581811049?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item2a471e8d69
  
 Less than $300 before shipping from the UK.


----------



## Hapster

oscarc said:


> I am intrigued by the K7XX. When does Massdrop charge your card? Is it like Amazon where you only get charged once the drop ships in March?




Yea, they charge you when it ships, I was able to cancel my order easily since they hadn't charged my paypal yet. 



stillhart said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHILIPS-X2-FIDELIO-HEADPHONE-BOXED-SEALED-BRAND-NEW-/181581811049?pt=UK_AudioVisualElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Headphones&hash=item2a471e8d69
> 
> Less than $300 before shipping from the UK.




This is where I got mine from, total bill is $330 in the U.S.


----------



## bigbeard

How do the k7xx compare to dt990 premiums. I have they beyers now; would buying the k7xx on mass do be an illogical decision?

What about the philips x2?


----------



## lenroot77

bigbeard said:


> How do the k7xx compare to dt990 premiums. I have they beyers now; would buying the k7xx on mass do be an illogical decision?
> 
> What about the philips x2?




I have both the dt990s and the k7xxs, the akg's are more neutral sounding than the beyers. The sound stage is more spacious and airy. When I first got the the beyers I really thought they were comfy. But the AKGs really blow them away in comfort too.
With all that said I'm currently going to sell my dt990s.

I'd say u can't go wrong with the k7xxs or the x2s for that matter. The dt990 is a very fun headphone. I just feel the other two cans are overall better in many areas.


----------



## lenroot77

Does anyone else cringe when you see a HP cord wrapped around the cans ( as a way to store)????


----------



## Donnyboy98

lenroot77 said:


> Does anyone else cringe when you see a HP cord wrapped around the cans ( as a way to store)????


 
 People with good headphones will know better (or atleast should).


----------



## lenroot77

donnyboy98 said:


> People with good headphones will know better (or atleast should).




I'm surprised when I see it here in the classifieds, not so much on eBay. Maybe I'm picky but all considerations are off when I see that.


----------



## Necromunda

I'm sure this has been answered, but considering the size of the thread I'd be a little intimidated to try and dig up the answer. So long story short, whats the best Virtual Surround Device to be used with the PS4 right now?
  
 As a background, I just ordered the AKG K7XX, and I'll be ordering the Magni2+Modi2 stack to go with it as well. Thanks!


----------



## lenroot77

necromunda said:


> I'm sure this has been answered, but considering the size of the thread I'd be a little intimidated to try and dig up the answer. So long story short, whats the best Virtual Surround Device to be used with the PS4 right now?
> 
> As a background, I just ordered the AKG K7XX, and I'll be ordering the Magni2+Modi2 stack to go with it as well. Thanks!


 Short answer... Return the schiit stack and order the creative x7.


----------



## Donnyboy98

Has anyone bought the AKG K7XX and AKG K712 Pro or tried them? Heard somewhere the K7XX have the same driver in them or similar i cant remember. Making them sound almost the same.


----------



## lenroot77

donnyboy98 said:


> Has anyone bought the AKG K7XX and AKG K712 Pro or tried them? Heard somewhere the K7XX have the same driver in them or similar i cant remember. Making them sound almost the same.




I seem to recall hearing this discussed in the individual K7XX thread. That thread isn't very long so it should be easy to find.


----------



## Change is Good

If you want to know the difference between the K7XX and K712, just read MLE's K712 and Annie reviews. The K7XX is basically the Annie, which is slightly different than the K712.

Annie/K7XX has slightly more forward mids, slightly less bass, and slightly less treble than the K712. Notice the key word "slightly," because the differences are minor, but there.


----------



## Necromunda

lenroot77 said:


> Short answer... Return the schiit stack and order the creative x7.


 
  
 I honestly have no idea why I didn't consider an all-in-one option... Audio quality wise, is it just as good as the Schiit Stack?


----------



## Evshrug

necromunda said:


> I honestly have no idea why I didn't consider an all-in-one option... Audio quality wise, is it just as good as the Schiit Stack?



Lenroot gave you a pretty good short answer, if you'd like the details check out my X7 review... Search HeadFi for a review on the X7. I talk about the major features, but I also share my opinion on the benefits.
The Schiit stack is close to the quality of the Sound Blaster Omni or Z (Stillhart tested the Modi side-by-side with his omni, purely in a DAC vs DAC setup with them plugged into the same dedicated headphone amp, and he couldn't hear a difference that couldn't be attributed to placebo), the Magni might be a better amp but the X7 has a better amp than the Magni and better DAC anyway... YMMV.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I somehow find it hard to believe the soundcards match up to the schiit stack. Subjectively, sure, but technically, Pretty sure the Schiit gear is a few laps ahead.

It would be especially be nice to know where the X7 falls in line with power. It wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't match up to the E9, let alone come anywhere close to the Magni 2. Where do you get the idea the X7 has a better amp than the Magni? I honestly doubt this. Maybe subjectively, since the Magni is a bit cold in sound sign, but that's a preference thing. 

"IT POWERS 600 ohm" is an extremely vague answer. The Mixamp can too, technically.


----------



## pack21

Killing machine is mounted.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 I loved playing BF4 with the X7, is a major upgrade to mixamp not just for soundcard quality, but to be able to repair the sound on game, like the timbre of the shots, atmosphere, explosions, engine running,..... this is impossible with Mixamp. And finally the hiss on high volume is gone. Receiving phone calls without removing headphones or do something is another blessing, like everything else that X7 do.

 I need now a 5 meters Toslink in order to use the X7 to watch movies, should be a great experience.

 Do not waste much time thinking, the X7 is this or that, because  we are never to buy gadgets for the rest of life, in 2 years we will be back to buy new versions of X8, X9, always buy the version more cheap, is the same thing equals when we buy a more expensive 64GB iPhone 6 than the 32GB, one year later we are buying the iphone 7.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I somehow find it hard to believe the soundcards match up to the schiit stack. Subjectively, sure, but technically, Pretty sure the Schiit gear is a few laps ahead.
> 
> It would be especially be nice to know where the X7 falls in line with power. It wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't match up to the E9, let alone come anywhere close to the Magni 2. Where do you get the idea the X7 has a better amp than the Magni? I honestly doubt this. Maybe subjectively, since the Magni is a bit cold in sound sign, but that's a preference thing.
> 
> "IT POWERS 600 ohm" is an extremely vague answer. The Mixamp can too, technically.



I agree, "it powers 600 ohm!!" is a marketing misnomer and an incomplete picture about the suitability of the amp. The Creative E1 (~$50 amp/DAC) really doesn't have enough juice for the K612, my iPhone's built-in amp seems a little more articulate, but the E1 does a GREAT job powering my V-MODA M-100... The E1 is advertised for powering 300 ohm headphones or something. I haven't heard the Magni... but I've heard other amps in its class and above. If I would get a Magni id go for the Uber so I could reduce gain, but the dry, cold general review impression didn't make enough of an appeal to me to put money down on it.

I've only heard the Modi, Bifrost Uber, and Vali myself, and the Modi only briefly, but here's how I think about it: the X7 sounds so close to the BiFrost that I don't feel like I'm missing much if anything. Bifrost may be slightly better, but stepping directly from Bifrost exclusive use for over a month to the X7 I didn't immediately notice anything missing from my games and my favourite music. The X7's amping is no fuss and clearly doesn't struggle to power any of my headphones, and sounds more even and less fatiguing than my Omni's built-in amp (with Q701, just slightly, K712, less fatiguing) and FiiO E12 (which produces between 1.3–1.4 W @32 ohms, and is supposed to be FiiO's best, most transparent amp), so it fulfills my need. Btw the Vali was impressively balanced and engaging for the price, but it's lack in soundstage sometimes tends to create a "wall of sound" where everything seems to hit you, at once, from the same distance... and I hate microphonics noise, very irritating. 

If the X7 has more to offer than the Schiit gear, and I can't detect much of anything the other gear offers over the X7, then... I can conclude that overall the X7 is the superior product for me.


----------



## Xander Shade

I have a few questions. I did buy the *Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")* headphones as my first pair of headphones. But I would like to extend my hearing prowess.  Which brings me as to why I am here.
  
 I have been looking at the *AKG K712 Pro*  or the* AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition* and would like some input on what people think. I would mainly use the headphones for music and movies and maybe some gaming.  I am not using it for editing or anything like that.
  
 I would like to add I do not currently have a mixamp running my current headphones. They just run normally, but I'm willing to guess that the above two headphones would need a mixamp to help run them to full benefit. How is the Astro Mixamp compared to other Mixamp such as the older turtle beach DSS. Or would a Fiio be a better choice?
  
 I am also looking for an actual gaming head set meaning one with a mic. I have looked at a few. But I want a good soundstage, I am not all about explosions, so that isn't my concern, I am mainly looking to understand where my foe is currently located and so forth. I would be using the headset mainly on the PC and the PS4. I am also not looking for any mod mics or adding a mic. I just would like a head set that has a mic built into the head set and which head sets out there stand apart from others.
  
 I appreciate any help, thanks in advance.


----------



## Change is Good

xander shade said:


> I have a few questions. I did buy the *Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")* headphones as my first pair of headphones. But I would like to extend my hearing prowess.  Which brings me as to why I am here.
> 
> I have been looking at the *AKG K712 Pro*  or the* AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition* and would like some input on what people think. I would mainly use the headphones for music and movies and maybe some gaming.  I am not using it for editing or anything like that.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you are patient, just go for the AKG K7XX from Massdrop.
  
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones
  
 This is the second drop, with one last drop coming in March. I believe the purchases have gone over the 718 units they had left over from the first drop, but you will be guaranteed a purchase on the last drop if you get in, now. Totally worth it, in my opinion, but only if you are patient.


----------



## hi2chris

change is good said:


> If you are patient, just go for the AKG K7XX from Massdrop.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones
> 
> This is the second drop, with one last drop coming in March. I believe the purchases have gone over the 718 units they had left over from the first drop, but you will be guaranteed a purchase on the last drop if you get in, now. Totally worth it, in my opinion, but only if you are patient.


 

 Beat me to it absolutely agree.
  
 And in regards to the gaming all in one, the Sennheiser G4me One is a common option another option is the HyperX Cloud which is incredible value.
 Last option is the MMX 300, as the most expensive of the lot it is hard for me to justify over the others.


----------



## Xander Shade

Wow I really appreciate the fast response.
  
 Will the price be the same in March as it is in February for the AKG K7XX or does it depend on how many votes are on the item or has the item already reached it's lowest price?
  
 Any recommendation on a good mixamp? I have looked at the Sennheiser G4me Zero but wasn't totally sold on that one. I have looked at other Sennheiser headsets with mics. But not sure on the whole soundstage. I will check out the other ones you mentioned.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, actually, neither the E9k nor the E12 hit 1watt at 32ohm, IIRC. Well, neither does the Vali, though you shouldn't be using 32ohm headphones with it, ideally, though the X2 sounds so lovely off it. 

Can you do your email magic and see if they respond to you about the power specs at different ohms for both X7's? It'd be nice to know what sort of real world boost in specs the LE has. I have an impulsive finger ready to hit the buy button.


----------



## Evshrug

xander shade said:


> Wow I really appreciate the fast response.
> 
> Will the price be the same in March as it is in February for the AKG K7XX or does it depend on how many votes are on the item or has the item already reached it's lowest price?
> 
> ...



I'm Not sure if the price will be the same, or more, or less... The KXX is a limited edition, and you can only order one while Massdrop is dropping them.

"Mixamp" is like Kleenex, Tide, Clorox, and Ping-Pong: it's just one brand name for a headphone processor or DSP. There's a list on Mad's guide and in my thread (linked in my signature). I'm working on a YouTube playlist of different options, problem is I want to refilm some parts.

Sennheiser makes several good gaming headsets, also look up audio Technica, Beyerdynamic, and I've heard decent things about Kingston's CloudX and Corsair's headset, but I consider those last two options to be low-end decent options, and keep in mind gaming headsets in general have a "pure" headphone equivalent and you pay a big markup for the mic and gaming branding.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, actually, neither the E9k nor the E12 hit 1watt at 32ohm, IIRC. Well, neither does the Vali, though you shouldn't be using 32ohm headphones with it, ideally, though the X2 sounds so lovely off it.
> 
> Can you do your email magic and see if they respond to you about the power specs at different ohms for both X7's? It'd be nice to know what sort of real world boost in specs the LE has. I have an impulsive finger ready to hit the buy button.




I bookmarked in my E12 review a quote from James of FiiO saying the output power of the E12: http://www.head-fi.org/t/620339/fiio-flagship-portable-amp-mont-blanc-e12-discussing-thread-the-pre-order-unit-arrives/300#post_8879770

I doubt the headphone power output differs at all between the X7 and X7 LE. I'm trying to review a Creative E1 first since they sent me a review sample, after that I'll ask.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That was pre release. Every spec page says it has slightly over 880mw at 32ohm (even the title has that number). So a little less than the E9k which is just under 1watt at 32ohm. You may wanna update your review.


----------



## Evshrug

*shrug*
Maybe, but I was reviewing a prerelease sample anyway, the bass boost feature changed too. And just for power, >880 mW is still a ton of power, amperes would be good to know too for the full picture but most of us consumers aren't used to knowing what to make of ampere measurements either. And the E09k has more output power anyway.

Texas Instruments specs the output power of the amp chip used in the X7 as having a 1.5 W output under "parametrics," I bet that's at 32 ohms and you can download the full technical data sheet if that's still not good enough for you:
http://www.ti.com/product/tpa6120a2


----------



## Change is Good

The factory box of the E12 actually says 660mw@32ohm. The website's specs is as a misprint, box info is correct.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even less now?

Well, power specs change for the Fiios. The E9k is slightly weaker than the OG E9 as well. 

Pretty sure when i had my own E12, it was 880mw. I would have totally noted 660mw back then since i distinctly remember it being slightily less than the E9k, not a LOT less.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Even less now?
> 
> Well, power specs change for the Fiios. The E9k is slightly weaker than the OG E9 as well.
> 
> Pretty sure when i had my own E12, it was 880mw. I would have totally noted 660mw back then since i distinctly remember it being slightily less than the E9k, not a LOT less.




That's what it's been for the E12 ever since day one. Trust me, I bought one (v2) when they first arrived in the US.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah well. Not something I'm currently interested in, though still good for a portable amp.


----------



## Change is Good

I stand corrected, the spec sheet inside the box says 600mw @16ohm and 880mw @ 32ohm. Had to look for my old E12 box.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You bum.


----------



## Change is Good

Ya mama
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Yeah, I never throw anything away lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I usually dont throw away my boxes either, but since moving out, and not having space, i threw away ALL my boxes, except for the X2...and Vali (though obviously on loan from headphone.guru indefinitely).

It hurts not having the Mixaml 5.8 box, because it's cables are probably in a big box of cables... No way I'm sifting through that. If i sell it, its gonna be with cables that arebgonna be used, not its extra fluff. Usb, optical, 2.5mm to 2.5mm, thats it.


----------



## Change is Good

I still think you should hold on to the mixamp to use with the PS4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But why. The X7 will be the replacement. The X7 will be next to me, so i can just attach a 3.5mm to 3.mm mic cable between the controller and the X7. Not much different than what i do now with the Mixamp 5.8. Believe it or not, I tend to keep my RX unit plugged into a usb anyways.

All thats changing on my end is the cable is different. Both will still go from controller to the source.


----------



## Change is Good

True. I guess I was picturing your PS4 in a living room, not next to your laptop and such. Makes sense for all-in one...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I know you guys are bummed the X7 doesn't support usb chat. However, i have been using my 5.8 without usb chat the entire time, so i dont mind a cable from the DS4 going to my RX unit (or X7 in the future)

http://www.amazon.com/VasterCable-Cable-Stereo-iPhone-Headphone/dp/B00LTABETQ

This keeps things simple... Assuming the X7 will adjust mic level similar to the Mixamp... which im unsure of. Can anyone confirm? Is this even a proper cable? Lol. I don't even know anymore.


----------



## Change is Good

The sole reason I won't get rid of the 5.8 _is _because of that PS3/PS4 chat cable. I literally have no cables on my lap when I game except the BoomPro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. Its convenient, but like I said, this would be the same exact outcome. Though i guess for you, that means having a REALLY LONG chat cable between your controller and the X7, lol.

I guess if i move, id have to do the same thing, but its not like i chat, ever. Destiny was one of those rare games that got me to talk. I dont see any future game doing that.


----------



## Change is Good

Not the same outcome for me, because I don't have any cables going into my controller. I was speaking of the cable that goes from the PS4's USB to the Rx unit.
  
 But, yeah, what you described is exactly why I have no use for the X7.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, you mean tx unit. Yeah, i don't have that cable unfortunately.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, that's what I meant. Thanks for clarifying...


----------



## Xander Shade

> Originally Posted by *Xander Shade*
> 
> 
> I have a few questions. I did buy the *Creative Aurvana Live! (aka "CAL")* headphones as my first pair of headphones. But I would like to extend my hearing prowess.  Which brings me as to why I am here.
> ...


 
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Change is Good* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> If you are patient, just go for the AKG K7XX from Massdrop.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones
> ...


  
  
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hi2chris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Beat me to it absolutely agree.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  


> Originally Posted by *Evshrug* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> I'm Not sure if the price will be the same, or more, or less... The KXX is a limited edition, and you can only order one while Massdrop is dropping them.
> ...


 
  
  
I would like to add that I did realize that the Mixamp was a brand name with the Astro. I just worded it wrong when I asking inquiring about it. Which is why I asked about the other headphone amps in my original post if you took the time to read it as the other two people who responded did.
  
I have had a lot of help in the past. However this the first response where I've been actual talked down to where I felt the person thought I didn't know what I was talking about or what I was looking for. But I do know what I am looking for.
  
Typically I read a lot of places before coming here and seeing how you weigh in on your choices.
  
While Sennheiser makes a good headset I am not really sold on the headset itself. I am currently interested in the Beyerdynamic MMX 300. 
  
There was another headphone amp that was brought to my attention and it was also a massdrop which as currently ended, but I wanted to get your opinion on it.
Geek Out 720 USB DAC/Amp I don't know a lot about headphone amps. But keep in mind I am here to learn*.*


----------



## Hapster

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah. Its convenient, but like I said, this would be the same exact outcome. Though i guess for you, that means having a REALLY LONG chat cable between your controller and the X7, lol.
> 
> I guess if i move, id have to do the same thing, but its not like i chat, ever. Destiny was one of those rare games that got me to talk. I dont see any future game doing that.


 

 Pfft, casual.
  
 On a side note, do you think the X7 really helps for gaming? I have a v-moda vamp verza which I use as my desktop amp/dac, but when I game, I have my boom pro plugged into my sound card (which isn't really anywhere as good).
  
  
 I'm not going to run out and buy an X7, but I'm wondering if It's really worth it to find a way to get the output to go through my verza and the input to go into my soundcard.


----------



## calpis

Guys, let me know when the X7 LE goes on sale.


----------



## Evshrug

Xander,
I certainly didn't intend any heat, merely started from the beginning rather than leaving out something that you (or someone reading your question) might like to know. So if you were searching for alternatives to the mixamp, searching for a headphone DSP would give you more results – people asking for alternatives to the mixamp is a pretty common question, which is why I've spent a fair amount of time and money testing options and writing a guide; I think my guide could be helpful.

The question is so common, I'm trying to answer it to a broader audience.

Now if you're just looking for an amp rather than something that can process surround sound, that's a whole other question. Some good all-rounder desktop choices around $100 are the FiiO E09k, Schiit Magni or Vali, or a tube hybrid amp from Garage1217. I've had good success from my two FiiO amps, but i haven't tried the E09K myself (but it's consistently just well-reviewed), I did try the Vali and was impressed in it's performance for the dollar but it does have microphonics issues (ringing sound of you tap it or plug in headphones, lasting a minute).

The other two people you quoted made headphone/headset suggestions, but I didn't see them suggest any headphone DSPs. Again, I wasn't speaking down on you... I legitimately thought I was giving some info on a part of your question which hadn't yet been answered, and I tried not to assume how much you already knew.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hapster, lol. I am. A casual who plays a lot... just alone. 

As for will it help you? If you've grown accustome to virtual surround... then yes. No audiophile amp/dac will come remotely close tp even the WORST Mixamp you can buy. Having Virtual surround is a boon in it of itself. Just my 2 cents. Those who swear against it... well, they're just used to limiting themselves to headphone stereo. I prefer my sound more spacious and speaker-like. Things around you actually sound like they're around you, and not restricted to an audio line going through your head for the most part.




calpis said:


> Guys, let me know when the X7 LE goes on sale.




Will do, friend-o. I just wish the LE didn't have that atrocious white color.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/sennheiser-urbanite-on-ear-headphone/

Hey guys, my Urbanite On Ear review is up on guru. Not really worth mentioning for games, so I may not add it to the guide. In fact, I won't since I didn't write up a gaming section when I had the headphones, and I don't wanna make stuff up. Since my guide is gaming oriented, I'll just say that I highly enjoyed the Urbanite (really liked their sound, a LOT), but it wouldn't be my first, second, or 10th choice for gaming due to very intimate/up front/non-spacious sound.


----------



## Change is Good

^Nice. I still have yet to find a portable to my liking. I was thinking of trying those, eventually, but that recessed treble I keep reading about is what will keep me from buying a pair.

The MOE was almost right, but a bit too v-shaped for me, even more so than my H3. I might try the MOE 2.0 once the price drops a bit and more reviews are shared, as I'm not sure if any changes have been made, sonically.


----------



## calpis

moe~~~~


----------



## Yethal

Anybody had a chance to play Hardline beta? What do You guys think of the sound engine?


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Anybody had a chance to play Hardline beta? What do You guys think of the sound engine?


 
  
 Forgot about that!  I just started the download now, I'll check it out when I get home.


----------



## Change is Good

Just got home and downloading mine, as well. I'm sure I'll be on my my BF4 buddies, tonight, but not for too long. I have to work both jobs, tomorrow, so I'll need the extra sleep time.

Edit: Have to wait for the PS Store to update. Damnit...


----------



## Yethal

The install time is killing me. Only 5% during the last 15 minutes. Get your schiit together Visceral.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> The install time is killing me. Only 5% during the last 15 minutes. Get your schiit together Visceral.




Visceral is the name of your internet provider?


----------



## martin vegas

It takes about 2 hours to install hardline, I have played the beta for a couple of hours today and won't be getting the finished game it's a bit crap!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/sennheiser-urbanite-on-ear-headphone/
> 
> Hey guys, my Urbanite On Ear review is up on guru. Not really worth mentioning for games, so I may not add it to the guide. In fact, I won't since I didn't write up a gaming section when I had the headphones, and I don't wanna make stuff up. Since my guide is gaming oriented, I'll just say that I highly enjoyed the Urbanite (really liked their sound, a LOT), but it wouldn't be my first, second, or 10th choice for gaming due to very intimate/up front/non-spacious sound.







calpis said:


> moe~~~~


----------



## Change is Good

My bad, I see you guys were talking about the actual game install. Schiit is ridiculous...


----------



## Stillhart

HD558 is on sale for $90 on amazon right now!
  
 http://smile.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
  
 I'm considering getting one just to experience one of the better-reviewed gaming cans in the guide.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> HD558 is on sale for $90 on amazon right now!
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
> 
> I'm considering getting one just to experience one of the better-reviewed gaming cans in the guide.


 
  
 Oooooor you could buy MLE's Ultrasone. 
  
 It's cheaper!


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Oooooor you could buy MLE's Ultrasone.
> 
> It's cheaper!


 
  
 But the 558/598 is reviewed much better for competitive gaming.


----------



## lenroot77

stillhart said:


> HD558 is on sale for $90 on amazon right now!
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
> 
> I'm considering getting one just to experience one of the better-reviewed gaming cans in the guide.




I saw this earlier, great price... It's been hovering around 140 the last month.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> I saw this earlier, great price... It's been hovering around 140 the last month.


 
  
 According to CCC, it's never been lower than $100.


----------



## Sam21

I bought my hd598 for 140 CDN....when I first put them on I noticed the treble is a bit harsh....


----------



## lenroot77

Although I've already had the 558s, it's very tempting. I'd really like to hear the 598s though. 

Anyone had both already? Is there really that much difference?


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> Although I've already had the 558s, it's very tempting. I'd really like to hear the 598s though.
> 
> Anyone had both already? Is there really that much difference?


 
  
 I've read that there's a mod to turn the 558 into the 598 and vice versa.


----------



## Change is Good

Great price for the 558, but with my K7XX around I'm sure I'll just end up selling it after trying it out. No need....


----------



## JayL

So, the X7 LE is really going to be MUCH better for us Headphone gamers, than the regular X7?


----------



## Stillhart

jayl said:


> So, the X7 LE is really going to be MUCH better for us Headphone gamers, than the regular X7?


 
  
 I don't think we have enough information to determine how good it's going to be yet.


----------



## Evshrug

jayl said:


> So, the X7 LE is really going to be MUCH better for us Headphone gamers, than the regular X7?



As far as I can see, besides the differences in limited-edition status, case color, power supply for the speaker amp, and lower-than-the-already-low output impedance (which only provide a benefit if you game with the most ultra-sensitive in-ear canalphones), there is no difference for headphone gamers and the extra $100 is better spent on a few games.

The only difference to the headphone section is the X7 has ~2.2 ohms output impedance (already very low) while the X7 LE has ~1 ohm output impedance. Are your headphones less than 16 ohms impedance? If not, the X7 and X7 LE will perform exactly the same.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> HD558 is on sale for $90 on amazon right now!
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-558-Headphones/dp/B004FEEY9A
> 
> I'm considering getting one just to experience one of the better-reviewed gaming cans in the guide.







stillhart said:


> I've read that there's a mod to turn the 558 into the 598 and vice versa.




You know, I can't find Mad's HD558 review in the guide? I do see the HD598, and the PC360 (which IIRC is an HD555 + mic). I really wish I'd gone for the last big HD598 sale, but at that point I had HD700 on the way...
Don't get me wrong, the HD700 is good as a reference can and marathon session comfort can, it's like a hybrid of top of the line Grado and Sennheiser, but I have an even better reference can, and I need to sell off some gear for some long-anticipated and unanticipated expenses.

And the HD558 isn't easily modded to sound like the HD598, that was true for the 555/595 but not this gen. The HD558 mod makes it sound "different" but not like the HD598.


----------



## rudyae86

Man, BF Hardline sounds good through the Recon3D+Fiio E11+K7XX although I had the SB Z installed in my PC, I had to return it since it is defective . The amp that is.
  
 But the audio sounds pretty good so far in Hardline, sound effects are different from BF4 and sound more cinematic. Although I still feel like they can work on the sounds a bit more, then again, there is so much going on during the game that trying to be competitive gets a bit hard trying to pinpoint the shots but the K7XX does pretty well still, considering how the bass sounds with these......everything sounds just right when wearing the K7XX.
  
 I will write something more detailed later during the week, since I barely only played 2 rounds a few minutes ago.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Game feels fast pace though, kind of CODish.........which I dont mind but they can slow it down a bit


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Are you certain, Evs?. The Description for the LE states something about more power for headphones. It is a pretty huge jump in power being supplied.

Stillhart, the 558 does not turn into the 598 with a mod. That has already been debunked. It makesnit sound CLOSER to a 598, but not the same. I believe it has to do with internal acoustics or something. In any case, i like the 558 more than the 598, so YMMV. 558 for $90.... that's a damn good deal.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> You know, I can't find Mad's HD558 review in the guide? I do see the HD598, and the PC360 (which IIRC is an HD555 + mic). I really wish I'd gone for the last big HD598 sale, but at that point I had HD700 on the way...
> Don't get me wrong, the HD700 is good as a reference can and marathon session comfort can, it's like a hybrid of top of the line Grado and Sennheiser, but I have an even better reference can, and I need to sell off some gear for some long-anticipated and unanticipated expenses.




So your selling your hd 700's? If so pm me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because i havent reviewed the 558. However, it sounds a lot like the PC360



> The Sound Blaster X7 reflects the skill of its exclusive 1 ohm headphone amp output impedance, with a nice kick of extra audio amplification power.




I'd hold off on speculation that its the same as the standard X7, until Creative clarifies.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> You know, I can't find Mad's HD558 review in the guide? I do see the HD598, and the PC360 (which IIRC is an HD555 + mic). I really wish I'd gone for the last big HD598 sale, but at that point I had HD700 on the way...
> Don't get me wrong, the HD700 is good as a reference can and marathon session comfort can, it's like a hybrid of top of the line Grado and Sennheiser, but I have an even better reference can, and I need to sell off some gear for some long-anticipated and unanticipated expenses.


 
 I was operating under the assumption that it was pretty much the same as the 598 when I wrote that -- or at least it could be with a mod.  Since that's apparently not the case, I apologize for the misleading comment!
  
 I am probably not going to get it since I'm trying to sell off some gear so I can upgrade to an NFB-28.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Down that Audio GD path...


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Down that Audio GD path...


 
 Been doing my research and I just don't see anything with the same value proposition for a balanced Amp and DAC, either all in one or separate, with a Sabre DAC.  (The NFB-10SE is the same DAC I have and I want something more neutral for my next one.)  The only things close are used Oppo HA-1 or used Mjolnir/Gungnir, but those are both hundreds more and arguably not much better.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Are you certain, Evs?. The Description for the LE states something about more power for headphones. It is a pretty huge jump in power being supplied.






mad lust envy said:


> That's because i havent reviewed the 558. However, it sounds a lot like the PC360
> I'd hold off on speculation that its the same as the standard X7, until Creative clarifies.



I could be wrong. I've read the white papers and the release info from creative (as you probably have, too), from that I gathered that the upgraded power supply allows 4 ohm speakers to hit 50W/50W peaks (100W total), but your quote is the first I've read about any power effect to the headphone amp section. Pretty sure it still uses the same OpAmp chip, and on a power basis will still have more than enough.





mad lust envy said:


> Down that Audio GD path...



Well hey, he's liked their products so far


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love Audio-GD. I just wish they were stateside. NFB5 is still my fave dac/amp.

Still, with the advent of the Creative X7, if I'm gonna get a desktop rig, may as well get one that also has virtual surround. 

I just REALLY want them to clarify power specs.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I love Audio-GD. I just wish they were stateside. NFB5 is still my fave dac/amp.
> 
> Still, with the advent of the Creative X7, if I'm gonna get a desktop rig, may as well get one that also has virtual surround.
> 
> *I just REALLY want them to clarify power specs.*




Yet it seems so difficult for them to do so... but why?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've emailed them, so hopefully they'll actually look for a definite answer instead of having some no knowledge PR person answer.

I basically worded it just how we expect an answer:

"Can you clarify how much power the X7 and the X7 LE output to headphones at varying impedances? For example: ??? mw @ 32 ohm, ??? mw @ 50 ohm (this is a good one to know for Planars), ??? mw @ 300 ohm (this is good for Sennheisers like the 600, 650, 800), ??? mw @ 600 ohm"

If they can't fill out at LEAST the 32ohm and 600ohm specs... I'm gonna be upset. You would think these are things they HAVE to measure. I just added the planar, senn stuff for this post.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm sure SOMEONE will know that answer. Let's see how long it will take for them to answer it.

In other news, I'm really thinking about trying the M50x. I don't want to pay much, but I do remember liking the OG M50 a lot when I had it. I have a feeling it may just be the portable I've been searching for this whole time, just overlooking. For the right price, I might jump on it.

Edit: I also see AT released a new set open and closed headphones. I wonder if they're stepping their game up. That R70x might be the schiit for gaming, but a bit too pricey at it's current state.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I've emailed them, so hopefully they'll actually look for a definite answer instead of having some no knowledge PR person answer.
> 
> I basically worded it just how we expect an answer:
> 
> ...




The Headphone amp they use is rated at a max of 1.5 W and 700 mA. It's 1.5 W at 16 ohms, since it's rated at 1 W at 32 ohms. This is from TIs website.


----------



## Change is Good

That's not half bad (if those numbers are correct), considering all its perks. Might just be a jack of all trades, indeed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can I see the source to those specs? That still not enough info. If it's hitting a 1watt at 32ohm, than I assume it will be decent enough for 600ohm, though not great. definitely under 100mw at 600ohm, which the Magni and Vali outdo by quite a bit. It should be plenty for those 300ohm or less type headphones with the exception of current hungry planars.

Still I'm not commiting to anything until the numbers are out. It does look like it will be about on par with the E9K, which is pretty entry level for a desktop amp, so anyone saying the X7's amp is higher end would be a bit presumptuous. That means that $500 for an E9k level amp, decent dac, and SBX is quite overpriced. Would definitely have to hit that under $300 mark to make it even near justifiable.


----------



## conquerator2

I agree. Especially if one only uses it as a DSP passthrough device right now


----------



## paulguru

excuse me Envy but you not considers the audio quality in games ?
  
 HiFi Headphones i noticed tends to underline the audio imperfections of the compressed audio formats, and in some games the audio is in MP3, so i think with some models u'll hear a bad audio quality in games.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Can I see the source to those specs? That still not enough info. If it's hitting a 1watt at 32ohm, than I assume it will be decent enough for 600ohm, though not great. definitely under 100mw at 600ohm, which the Magni and Vali outdo by quite a bit. It should be plenty for those 300ohm or less type headphones with the exception of current hungry planars.
> 
> Still I'm not commiting to anything until the numbers are out. It does look like it will be about on par with the E9K, which is pretty entry level for a desktop amp, so anyone saying the X7's amp is higher end would be a bit presumptuous. That means that $500 for an E9k level amp, decent dac, and SBX is quite overpriced. Would definitely have to hit that under $300 mark to make it even near justifiable.




http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/tpa6120a2-evaluation-board/1572 Here is the product spec sheet stating the chip does 80 x 2 mW @ 600 ohms. However, I was mistaken, it is 1.5 W @ 32 ohms. 

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa6120a2.pdf Spec sheet here states 700 mA. Never outright states the power output though.

I'm going to play Devils advocate here about the price though. The Magni 2 + Modi 2 uber and O2 + ODAC are unusual with their specs, especially considering the uber stack is 300$ compared to the X7 at 400$. However, the uber stack doesn't have a speaker amp, optical pass out, built in mic, surround sound processing, ability to play iDevices without the camera cord and powered hub, Bluetooth capabilities, an ADC, AND one of the better DAC chips around (though that doesn't matter if it's implemented like crap.) Not to mention being able to play multiple input sources.

If all that extra crap is worth the extra price is a different matter altogether (I wanted most of those) but that's probably their reasoning behind the price. I actually think it might be a better deal than the astro mixamp (seeing as you have to buy an external amp to run most good headphones after a certain price point,) but that's not hard to do at all.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> I'm sure SOMEONE will know that answer. Let's see how long it will take for them to answer it.
> 
> In other news, I'm really thinking about trying the M50x. I don't want to pay much, but I do remember liking the OG M50 a lot when I had it. I have a feeling it may just be the portable I've been searching for this whole time, just overlooking. For the right price, I might jump on it.
> 
> Edit: I also see AT released a new set open and closed headphones. I wonder if they're stepping their game up. That R70x might be the schiit for gaming, but a bit too pricey at it's current state.




I just ordered a pair of m50x's. I was able to try them out at a store and I really thought they sounded great off my iPhone. I really like the option of the different cords too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno Change, the M50X I'm sure is a banger, but I find them a bit too big for portable use, and your 1540 is sure to blow them away otherwise...

And yes, 1.5watt at 32ohm is Magni 2 Uber type power. That's damn good,80mw at 600ohm... that's E9 level, which is okay for sensitive 600ohm, but not gonna give headroom for the stuff with voltage swings. I was hoping for like 120mw @ 600ohm. 

Still, I can live with that sort of power, especially if i have an alternate amp if I ever have 600ohm cans that don't play nice with it (which I'm sure isn't many anyways).

Now, I don't think Evs answered this, but how would one transfer SBX to ANOTHER amp? i doubt the analog line out does this, so I assume you'd have to go the old school route of amping through the headphone jack? I do believe the speaker out can have it's own SBX type of processing, but that's not headphone related. I guess a cheap DAC like a Fiio D03K with your own amp is fine, as apparently the X7 does pass SBX to the optical out.


----------



## Hapster

Meant to post this here:
  
 Okay so by using an extension cable for the mic end of the boom pro I can now have headphone out from my amp and the mic-in to my pcs sound card, bur there's one issue. I hear a bunch of high-pitched static and when I turn off the v-moda boom mic it basically "screams" producing a loud high pitch noise. I have a feeling this is because now the input is actually being amped and I can hear that on my end.
  
 So how would I go about solving this? Besides obviously not using the amp.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Can I see the source to those specs? That still not enough info. If it's hitting a 1watt at 32ohm, than I assume it will be decent enough for 600ohm, though not great. definitely under 100mw at 600ohm, which the Magni and Vali outdo by quite a bit. It should be plenty for those 300ohm or less type headphones with the exception of current hungry planars.
> 
> Still I'm not commiting to anything until the numbers are out. It does look like it will be about on par with the E9K, which is pretty entry level for a desktop amp, so anyone saying the X7's amp is higher end would be a bit presumptuous. That means that $500 for an E9k level amp, decent dac, and SBX is quite overpriced. Would definitely have to hit that under $300 mark to make it even near justifiable.







evshrug said:


> *shrug*
> Maybe, but I was reviewing a prerelease sample anyway, the bass boost feature changed too. And just for power, >880 mW is still a ton of power, amperes would be good to know too for the full picture but most of us consumers aren't used to knowing what to make of ampere measurements either. And the E09k has more output power anyway.
> 
> Texas Instruments specs the output power of the amp chip used in the X7 as having a 1.5 W output under "parametrics," I bet that's at 32 ohms and you can download the full technical data sheet if that's still not good enough for you:
> http://www.ti.com/product/tpa6120a2




I quoted my earlier post, where I linked the source for the answer you were looking for.
Just to add to that, it shouldn't surprise that the E09k have the same power output, I believe they both use Texas Instruments TPA6120a2 opamp chip. What comes after that chip is slightly different (thus the lower output impedance), but that's why I kept comparing the amp section to the E09k for power.


----------



## Stillhart

http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/12195#post_11289258
  
 The X1 is on lightning deal right now for $169!


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/12195#post_11289258
> 
> The X1 is on lightning deal right now for $169!




Thanks for the heads up but I think I'm too late. I tried to buy it and it says 100% and it will notify me if available. :-/


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> Thanks for the heads up but I think I'm too late. I tried to buy it and it says 100% and it will notify me if available. :-/


 
 Keep refreshing.  Lots of people add to cart and then change their minds.


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> Keep refreshing.  Lots of people add to cart and then change their minds.




Ordered one, thanks for the advice. Already have the boom mic pro, going to use this with my pc and my x7. Taking my hyperx clouds and using them with my Xbox one and ps4.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno Change, the M50X I'm sure is a banger, but I find them a bit too big for portable use, and your 1540 is sure to blow them away otherwise...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


This is from past experience, but you can have the processing go through RCA out. I did that with the O2 back when I first got the soundblaster Z card and eventually did the whole Modi -> Magni optical out route. Since you can still output through there while on headphone mode, and, since you can keep the SBX unless you turn on Stereo direct, you should be good.

I just got mine, so I'll do some testing later tonight and let you know. I would also like to avoid the whole "double amping" thing.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, I use the SBX processing with my Stax (speaker taps) and I'm pretty sure I had my tube amp hooked up to the RCA's when I first got the X7, and the processing still worked well. I'll try testing more too, but the line out is a good option.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno Change, the M50X I'm sure is a banger, but I find them a bit too big for portable use, and your 1540 is sure to blow them away otherwise...
> 
> And yes, 1.5watt at 32ohm is Magni 2 Uber type power. That's damn good,80mw at 600ohm... that's E9 level, which is okay for sensitive 600ohm, but not gonna give headroom for the stuff with voltage swings. I was hoping for like 120mw @ 600ohm.
> 
> ...


 
 As others pointed out and as I tested myself, the RCA Line Out does carry SBX processing with it, though it does not seem to bypass the X7's amplifier [the X7's volume knob still affected volume]. Unless one of the SBX settings in the control panel changes that,


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, Mad, I know the M50x is still a little big for on the go. I remember the M50, however, being very manageable for portable use if it wasn't for the non-detachable cable. Like I said, for the right price, I think I'm going for it. I just have to find the best price, available. I think I've seen it go as low as $129 on sale. We'll see...

Also, I know the 1540 will trump it. To be fair, though, the M50X would be strictly for on the go.


----------



## Stillhart

The Omni uses different SBX processing from the RCA outs than it does from the headphone out.  Might want to check that on the X7.


----------



## JayL

evshrug said:


> As far as I can see, besides the differences in limited-edition status, case color, power supply for the speaker amp, and lower-than-the-already-low output impedance (which only provide a benefit if you game with the most ultra-sensitive in-ear canalphones), there is no difference for headphone gamers and the extra $100 is better spent on a few games.
> 
> The only difference to the headphone section is the X7 has ~2.2 ohms output impedance (already very low) while the X7 LE has ~1 ohm output impedance. Are your headphones less than 16 ohms impedance? If not, the X7 and X7 LE will perform exactly the same.


 
 PC 360
 so Impedance 50
  
 Thank you!


----------



## PacoTaco

So I got the soundblaster...already opened...missing 2 cables. Yah.


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> So I got the soundblaster...already opened...missing 2 cables. Yah.




Where did you purchase from?


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> Where did you purchase from?



 


Amazon. They only fulfill the order, so I'm going to have to contact good ol' creative to see if they'll do a replacement or exchange or give me the cables. The unit itself is fine though.


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> The Omni uses different SBX processing from the RCA outs than it does from the headphone out.  Might want to check that on the X7.



Yeah, I'll have to check that out.


----------



## PacoTaco

I talked to the Creative rep. They don't have any cables that they can give to replace the ones that were gone and Amazon won't do an exchange. Since I don't feel like getting a refund, waiting 3 business days, then the weekend, then the order to get in, I'm just going to keep it. The missing cables are all cables I have...plus, the unit is fine.

I'll let you guys know about the line outs tonight. I believe you can just set the back part to the same setting as headphones, which I've done in the past. I think you can "choose" how you want to process the outputs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Played the Hardline Beta for a bit... Then promptly uninstalled it. I will never understand how anyone can play such an unresponsive shooter. Battlefield is forever dead to me if they keep using that system. Its like playing with noodle arms and legs. Not my idea of fun at all. Reminds me why I haven't enjoyed Battlefield since BF2: Modern Combat.


----------



## Change is Good

LOL


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've played a variety of shooters in my life, especially lately on PC (with a gamepad mind you), yet they all have some level of responsiveness that is non-existent on Battlefield. Screw that crap. I swear to god, they better not make Mass Effect 4 use Battlefield's mechanics. I expect Battlefront to use it, so I'm gonna skip the hell out of it, just like the more recent Medal of Honor games.


----------



## Change is Good

Just stick to what you know, meng. I keep telling people BF isn't a shooter you can just pick up, play, and expect to dominate right away. It has a realistic feel to the movement, which is why people who are used to run and gun often complain and call it unresponsive. To each their own...

Mass Effect is being made by Bioware, correct? They'll use the same frostbite engine like they did on Dragon Age, but that's about it.


----------



## Arnotts

change is good said:


> *Just stick to what you know, meng.* I keep telling people BF isn't a shooter you can just pick up, play, and expect to dominate right away. It has a realistic feel to the movement, which is why people who are used to run and gun often complain and call it unresponsive. To each their own...
> 
> Mass Effect is being made by Bioware, correct? They'll use the same frostbite engine like they did on Dragon Age, but that's about it.


 
 Change is good, though!


----------



## face2k

I just got my K612 and the gun sounds are much louder than all the other sounds is this what its supposed to sound like?
 It gets really uncomfortable and when I turn it down I can't hear all the positioning details
 My current set up is PS4>Recon3d>Schiit Magni>K612
 I really like the soundstage and positioning of this headphone
 Now I know why you guys keep recommending it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's probably because the frequency of gun sounds is in a range that is emphasized on the K612. Lots of other headphones have upper mid DIPS, not bumps, which is why it may so different to you. That's the one bad thing about forward upper mids. It brings extra fatigue.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Played the Hardline Beta for a bit... Then promptly uninstalled it. I will never understand how anyone can play such an unresponsive shooter. Battlefield is forever dead to me if they keep using that system. Its like playing with noodle arms and legs. Not my idea of fun at all. Reminds me why I haven't enjoyed Battlefield since BF2: Modern Combat.


 
 BF2 for PC or BF2 for the consoles? the console version, which i believe was on PS2 and Xbox or xobx 360 sucked. If you mean the PC BF2, now that was a game.
  
 And Honestly, BF Bad Company 2 was epic, too bad no one really plays it. BF3 is probably still my favorite though. But Im sure you are still into the COD series, which therefore, you feel this game is bad for you. I speak in terms of responsiveness and controls....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. The console one. And it didn't suck. It was the game that got me into FPS games in the first place. Something no BF after it could hit. And I owned and played Bad Company quite a bit. Yet, it didn't do much for me for long. I've also owned BF3 (still do), and that game does nothing for me either. So yes, I know how to play these games. Doesn't make them any more appealing, with their 'life' like controls. Lifelike = boring. If I wanted lifelike, I'd go to the military. I play games for fun.


----------



## PacoTaco

First impressions of the Sound Blaster X7: Everything was easy to set up. I just put the Xbone's chat out through the Line-in of the soundblaster, and output my blue yeti into the mic part of the One's controller through "what you hear" of my soundblaster Z. Music sounds great, and you can tell this was suppose to be a bit more of a warm device. There's still a noticeable lack of headroom for my HE560 though. The line out does use the same processing as the headphone settings, so you're good to go there. 
  
 It sounds surprisingly good, that's for sure.
  
 Also, MLE, I still haven't gotten into a Battlefield since BC2 myself. Then again, I haven't gotten into a COD since MW2.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> No. The console one. And it didn't suck. It was the game that got me into FPS games in the first place. Something no BF after it could hit. And I owned and played Bad Company quite a bit. Yet, it didn't do much for me for long. I've also owned BF3 (still do), and that game does nothing for me either. So yes, I know how to play these games. Doesn't make them any more appealing, with their 'life' like controls. Lifelike = boring. *If I wanted lifelike, I'd go to the military.* I play games for fun.




Well, I want life-like, but I'd rather play BF than join the military. I only have one life... in real life...

Funny you say that, though. Isn't BF the video game of preference for people that are actually in the military?

It's like racing games. Some people prefer realistic controls, others prefer arcade-like controls. I prefer the former, bit it doesn't mean I want to do it in real life


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> No. The console one. And it didn't suck. It was the game that got me into FPS games in the first place. Something no BF after it could hit. And I owned and played Bad Company quite a bit. Yet, it didn't do much for me for long. I've also owned BF3 (still do), and that game does nothing for me either. So yes, I know how to play these games. Doesn't make them any more appealing, with their 'life' like controls. Lifelike = boring. If I wanted lifelike, I'd go to the military. I play games for fun.


 
 The console one was looked down upon ver badly. The Real BF2 on PC was the best and preferred one. But I kind of understand what you mean by it. Unrealism is your cup of tea I suppose lol. You wont see that happening with Military FPS anytime soon or ever, or at least within AAA titles. Some people also like Red Orchestra 2, which is more realistic in a sense compared to BF or even COD. And it really isnt about lifelike controls....controls on PC or Console are beyond life like lol. Movements, some, are life like but then again, when you have a high sensitivity, you are doing 1080 turns like nothing and thats not being realistic lol.

 I think its just your preference on games and not about its true intentions in gaming mechanics.

 Actually, you like something that has more of a fun overall game that doesnt have so much stuff going on, simplicity and that is understandable.
  
 Right now, I was trying to figure out Hardlines whole interface on loudouts and attachments and honestly its a mess SMH. Terrible layout IMO.

 Hotwire is fun though, I like it. When you squad up, its fun.....lonewolf, not so much at all. I guess thats what they are aiming for with Hardline since in BF3/BF4 you have alot of snipers or people with DMRs shooting you from far away or that dam UCAV right when you spawn..........I hate that


----------



## Change is Good

That's just it. MLE is the ultimate run and gun lone wolf shooter. It's been made clear that BF is not his steelo. It's a squad based game that relies on teamwork to succeed, not to mention the slow mechamics. It's just not a good match.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> That's just it. MLE is the ultimate run and gun lone wolf shooter. It's been made clear that BF is not his steelo. It's a squad based game that relies on teamwork to succeed, not to mention the slow mechamics. It's just not a good match.


 
 I mean, I said lonewolf because from what I have read, he loved the COD series and you know that really isnt team based and is more about skill and its a fast paced game. Im sure he plays with friends of course but his type of game is more on the unrealism side, hence why he said about Mass Effect 4 and Battlefront. They both will use the Frostbite engine but by no means will it play out like the current BF titles....its an engine that can be configured to the developers liking.
  
 MLE should worry about giving us that X2 review though....
  
 Im still waiting........ lol


----------



## Evshrug

face2k said:


> I just got my K612 and the gun sounds are much louder than all the other sounds is this what its supposed to sound like?
> It gets really uncomfortable and when I turn it down I can't hear all the positioning details
> 
> My current set up is PS4>Recon3d>Schiit Magni>K612
> ...



Yeah, the k612 has a lot going for it 
For your gun sounds fatigue... Yeah guns are usually loudest in every game. However, I also recommend turning off Crystalizer in the Recon3D, it's a fatiguing combination with AKGs, and check out my Recon3D USB review (in my signature) for a few recommended settings. You can tweak them afterwards to your taste, for example some people might like a small amount of smart volume to make loud sounds a little softer and quiet sounds a little louder (but don't overdo it as that might mess up the soundstage depth) or using the EQ to tame a frequency that feels too aggressive for you. The Recon3D has a lot of adjustability (gotta plug into PC to adjust it), and that's a powerful tool I recommend you take advantage of.

Enjoy!


----------



## Change is Good

Mle is a great teammate, when he wants to be 

Battlefront actually WILL play like BF, I assume, because DICE is developing it, correct? Isn't their selling point the fact that it's going to be BF in Star Wars universe? Kind of like a BF:2142? I'm in, if so...


----------



## NamelessPFG

Hey, if you want really responsive FPSs, there's always the fast-pacedness of stuff like Quake III Arena/Quake Live, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, so on and so forth from the golden age of FPSs.
  
 Not that MLE would ever play them because they're the sort of games which don't cater to gamepad players, console ports notwithstanding. Even the console ports had the distinction of being the few console FPSs to actually have keyboard and mouse support in some form. (Quake III on Dreamcast could even network with PC clients in certain cases, and yes, it supported the Dreamcast keyboard and mouse. Take that, Microsoft!)
  
 Actually, now I have to ask: was TimeSplitters 2 or Future Perfect fast-paced enough? Now that's what I'm talking about when it comes to console FPSs! Actually, I'd kill for a TimeSplitters 4 on PC, but Free Radical/Crytek Nottingham can't find a publisher for it, argh...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't need it to be twitch based. I've played slower stuff too, but at least with some semblance of response. games like Killzone and Battlefield though... Christ, they control like crap.


----------



## RRod

namelesspfg said:


> Hey, if you want really responsive FPSs, there's always the fast-pacedness of stuff like Quake III Arena/Quake Live, Unreal Tournament, Tribes, so on and so forth from the golden age of FPSs.


 
  
 Those were my bread and butter back in the day. These days I just assume every mouse movement will end a second after I actually stop moving the mouse. I guess it makes all those 360noscopes more fun.


----------



## face2k

evshrug said:


> Yeah, the k612 has a lot going for it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanx for the reply. Your review was the reason I bought the Recon3D
 I thought the gun sounds were kinda loud because I've used this setup with my MA900,HD598,HE400,AD900x and the K612 was the only one with this problem
 I just couldn't get a balance where I could hear the details and the soundstage without going deaf from the gun shots


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I don't need it to be twitch based. I've played slower stuff too, but at least with some semblance of response. games like Killzone and Battlefield though... Christ, they control like crap.


 
  
 Have you tried Titanfall yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope. But I don't like the the new CoD that tries to be like it either.


----------



## calpis

I play Visual Novels in DH. Would the X7 LE be beneficial?


----------



## Evshrug

face2k said:


> Thanx for the reply. Your review was the reason I bought the Recon3D
> I thought the gun sounds were kinda loud because I've used this setup with my MA900,HD598,HE400,AD900x and the K612 was the only one with this problem
> I just couldn't get a balance where I could hear the details and the soundstage without going deaf from the gun shots



Oh. Well, I'm sure you can understand that it feels gratifying to know that not only was work I put into the review actually read, but also at least a little helpful.


After using the HD700 for awhile, going back to the K612 felt like the mids (the meat of the sound) were recessed but some treble was emphasized. Interestingly, there's still plenty of uniqueness and benefit to the K612 not in the HD700, buuuut... I guess where I'd start is looking at K612 or K601 freq curve charts and reducing the treble frequencies a bit using the Recon3D. Just a little. Maybe try a little dynamic range compression, halo 4 for example has some REALLY loud volume spikes (hello warthog!), after waking up or when I'm tired sometimes I admit to turning the volume down a bit and using "scout mode," it's not reference but at lower volumes I found it easier on the ears if I was tired.

Good luck!
P.S, how was MA900 vs HD598?





mad lust envy said:


> Nope. But I don't like the the new CoD that tries to be like it either.


 I liked Destiny's double jump, sliding, and I generally like CoD:AW, but sometimes AW seems to go too far into tactical speed (and can be a bit of a complication to get the movement you want) and sometimes I go back and play CoD: Ghosts because there's a little more strategy and sound hunting without the exo move boosts. I'm tempted to go back and play some of my fav Xbox 360 games, but I don't have a Live subscription anymore 




calpis said:


> I play Visual Novels in DH. Would the X7 LE be beneficial?



Sure, just use the female vocals preset. On an indirectly related note, the headphone stand will nicely display other small affects too... I've got my hat hanging on it right now.


----------



## face2k

evshrug said:


> Oh. Well, I'm sure you can understand that it feels gratifying to know that not only was work I put into the review actually read, but also at least a little helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 MA900 vs HD598 I picked the MA900
 The HD598 was a bit too flat for me also comfort was an issue
 I might give the K7XX a try after I sell some of these headphones
 Man~ I love the AKGs


----------



## martin vegas

Hardline is bad, bf4 isn't bad i am just sick of playing it like everyone else..battlefront  should be good though..p.s here's a new star wars arcade machine that's just been released, hopefully it's at pax east this year..


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## oscarc

I recently purchased the V-MODA BoomPro Gaming mic to chat on my X1 headphones. I am using a MixAmp Pro 2013 as well. I thought I had everything connected properly but am having issues hearing voice as it sounds very faint with the voice dial all the way up (game audio then sounds echoed). I am also not sure if they can hear me. Should my name come up on the game when I speak like I see when others are talking? Here is my setup:
  
V-MODA BoomPro connector from the X1 into the headphone jack in the MixAmp. The BoomPro comes with a splitter (one for audio, one for voice). I am assuming I don't need this for the MixAmp. Am I right?

Cable that came with the Stereo Headset Adapter to the Astro 2.5mm - 3.5mm cable. The right angle end connected to controller port on the MixAmp. 

I have Optical set to Bitstream Out and Bitstream format to Dolby Digital. I have also unchecked to use voice from the Kinect. 

I am doing everything right or is there a step I am missing to get this working properly?


----------



## Stillhart

oscarc said:


> I recently purchased the V-MODA BoomPro Gaming mic to chat on my X1 headphones. I am using a MixAmp Pro 2013 as well. I thought I had everything connected properly but am having issues hearing voice as it sounds very faint with the voice dial all the way up (game audio then sounds echoed). I am also not sure if they can hear me. Should my name come up on the game when I speak like I see when others are talking? Here is my setup:
> 
> V-MODA BoomPro connector from the X1 into the headphone jack in the MixAmp. The BoomPro comes with a splitter (one for audio, one for voice). I am assuming I don't need this for the MixAmp. Am I right?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Dumb question, but have you turned the chat volume all the way up on the X1 controller?


----------



## KCchiefin24

oscarc said:


> [...]


 
  
 I had this problem too. The stereo headset adapter also works like the mixamp in a way. The buttons on the left work like the game/voice dial on the mixamp. I had to hit the voice button (bottom left) until I started hearing the max setting tone. You can then use the volume buttons to increase the sound (on the adapter). Do you have the usb of the mixamp going to the xbox as well?
  
 Tbh i'm not a huge fan of this set up. Too many damn cables and then the issues w/ voice.


----------



## rudyae86

martin vegas said:


> Hardline is bad, bf4 isn't bad i am just sick of playing it like everyone else..battlefront  should be good though..p.s here's a new star wars arcade machine that's just been released, hopefully it's at pax east this year..
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




 Reminds me of Rogue Squadron on GameCube.......and I love that game! lol
  
 Looks cool though. Controls would be hard at first but I cant wait for the new movie and Battlefront


----------



## Stillhart

kcchiefin24 said:


> I had this problem too. The stereo headset adapter also works like the mixamp in a way. The buttons on the left work like the game/voice dial on the mixamp. I had to hit the voice button (bottom left) until I started hearing the max setting tone. You can then use the volume buttons to increase the sound (on the adapter). Do you have the usb of the mixamp going to the xbox as well?
> 
> Tbh i'm not a huge fan of this set up. Too many damn cables and then the issues w/ voice.


 
  
 Yeah, MS nickel and diming us for the chat adapter is pretty ******* lame to begin with.  And then it doesn't even work properly half the time.  It's a good thing the rest of the XBone ownership experience is so good.


----------



## Change is Good

LOL


----------



## oscarc

stillhart said:


> Dumb question, but have you turned the chat volume all the way up on the X1 controller?


 
 I thought I did but will try again tonight. If I just want to output only voice audio through the adapter, don't I hold the bottom left button down until I hear a beep?


----------



## oscarc

kcchiefin24 said:


> I had this problem too. The stereo headset adapter also works like the mixamp in a way. The buttons on the left work like the game/voice dial on the mixamp. I had to hit the voice button (bottom left) until I started hearing the max setting tone. You can then use the volume buttons to increase the sound (on the adapter). Do you have the usb of the mixamp going to the xbox as well?
> 
> Tbh i'm not a huge fan of this set up. Too many damn cables and then the issues w/ voice.


 
 It is a lot of cables and I am one who likes a nice clean setup. Oh well. Anyways, I do have the USB going into the XBOX. So are you using the left top/bottom buttons to control the game/voice balance on the headset adapter and not through the MixAmp? What kind of balance are you using? Turning the dial more towards voice on the MixAmp did not improve the loudness at all for game chat but made the game audio very muddled especially gunshots.


----------



## KCchiefin24

I do both. Mixamp is usually half way between 50/50 and all voice and the headset adapter is max voice.
  
 My set up is slightly different from yours though, I have a fiio e17 between the mixamp and my headphones (currently using a modmic as well). But essentially you should have optical & usb going from mixamp -> xbox then boompro into mixamp and chat cable from mixamp to the headset adapter. Make sure the boompro is plugged all the way into your headphones as well.
  
 I have a pair of X1s and a boompro coming tomorrow so I'll let you know how my experience goes with it.


----------



## Yethal

MLE did You try Blacklight Retribution?


----------



## oscarc

kcchiefin24 said:


> I do both. Mixamp is usually half way between 50/50 and all voice and the headset adapter is max voice.
> 
> My set up is slightly different from yours though, I have a fiio e17 between the mixamp and my headphones (currently using a modmic as well). But essentially you should have optical & usb going from mixamp -> xbox then boompro into mixamp and chat cable from mixamp to the headset adapter. Make sure the boompro is plugged all the way into your headphones as well.
> 
> I have a pair of X1s and a boompro coming tomorrow so I'll let you know how my experience goes with it.


 
 Thanks. The USB just provides power, so theoretically it can plug into any port for power (TV, Cable box, etc.), right?
  
 I plan to amp, but don't want to connect everything at once and get more confused setting it up. I have an O2 and FiiO E12 and not sure which one would be better.
  
 I am assuming the Mixamp sits between the headphones and the amp. X1 -> BoomPro -> amp headphone jack, interconnect cable from amp -> Mixamp headphone jack. XBOX headset adapter via 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable to the controller part on Mixamp. Do I have it right?


----------



## Stillhart

oscarc said:


> Thanks. The USB just provides power, so theoretically it can plug into any port for power (TV, Cable box, etc.), right?
> 
> I plan to amp, but don't want to connect everything at once and get more confused setting it up. I have an O2 and FiiO E12 and not sure which one would be better.
> 
> I am assuming the Mixamp sits between the headphones and the amp. X1 -> BoomPro -> amp headphone jack, interconnect cable from amp -> Mixamp headphone jack. XBOX headset adapter via 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable to the controller part on Mixamp. Do I have it right?


 
  
 I think you'll need an extra Y cable.  You're splitting the Boompro into headphone+mic at the amp.  Headphone goes into amp, then amp goes into a Y cable to recombine the mic and headphone (via amp) into a 4-pin connector.


----------



## Vindication

Crazy question......but........Anyone try to set up a Hugo chord yet?


----------



## Xander Shade

Evshrug,
  
 Just wanted to say sorry for viewing your post as something it was not. These days one person reads one thing, while the other person wrote it and meant it some thing else. I do appreciate you taking the time to reply my post and steer me in the right direction.
  
 For those interested there is a new Hyper X Cloud 2 coming out soon. Stats copy and pasted via Amazon.
  

USB Audio Sound Card with 7.1 Virtual Surround Sound
53mm Drivers Neodymium Magnets
Noise Cancelling Microphone via Inline Sound Card
Echo Cancelling via Inline Sound Card
15-25kKhz Frequency Response
Memory foam ear pads with extra set of Velour ear pads and Detachable Microphone
TeamSpeak Certified - Voice Chat Optimized
Compatibility - USB 7.1 Connectivity for PC & Mac. Stereo compatible with PS4, Xbox One (Xbox One Stereo Adapter Required, not included), Mobile
  
 I was thinking of getting these rather than the first Hyper X Cloud. But would like to hear your input.


----------



## Stillhart

vindication said:


> Crazy question......but........Anyone try to set up a Hugo chord yet?


 
  
 I demoed one at CES.  Why do you ask?


----------



## AxelCloris

xander shade said:


> Evshrug,
> 
> Just wanted to say sorry for viewing your post as something it was not. These days one person reads one thing, while the other person wrote it and meant it some thing else. I do appreciate you taking the time to reply my post and steer me in the right direction.
> 
> ...


 
  
 It will all depend on how good the USB sound card is and what kind of tech they're using. If it doesn't hold up to DH or SBX then I imagine the price difference will not be worth it. But that could be proven wrong, of course.


----------



## Evshrug

vindication said:


> Crazy question......but........Anyone try to set up a Hugo chord yet?



Stillhart! And he was super impressed!




xander shade said:


> Evshrug,
> 
> Just wanted to say sorry for viewing your post as something it was not. These days one person reads one thing, while the other person wrote it and meant it some thing else.
> 
> I was thinking of getting these rather than the first Hyper X Cloud. But would like to hear your input.




Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and chance to make better!
That headset sounds promising, kingston's stepping up their game. Most headsets in the past like that used DH, 7.1 surround makes me suspect it PROBABLY does too but it may not. GL!


----------



## Hapster

I figured it was probably hard to tell what I was talking about, so here's an illustration.
  
 This is my current chain, the problem is that because of the amplifier, the internal sound/etc from my desktop is being amplified once the mic-in cable reconnects with the headphone-in.
  
  
 Is there any way to prevent this?


----------



## Yethal

hapster said:


> I figured it was probably hard to tell what I was talking about, so here's an illustration.
> 
> This is my current chain, the problem is that because of the amplifier, the internal sound/etc from my desktop is being amplified once the mic-in cable reconnects with the headphone-in.
> 
> ...


 
 Shouldn't You run this setup like this:
  
 usb > dac/amp> headphone port of the splitter > boom pro > headphones
  
 minijack extension > mic port of the splitter > boom pro > headphones


----------



## Vindication

stillhart said:


> I demoed one at CES.  Why do you ask?


 

 worth the money?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Stillhart! And he was super impressed!
> Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and chance to make better!
> That headset sounds promising, kingston's stepping up their game. Most headsets in the past like that used DH, 7.1 surround makes me suspect it PROBABLY does too but it may not. GL!


 
 Kingston just rebrands those headphones but from what I have read and seen youtube videos.......They are pretty good for the price and with all those features under 100 bucks, makes it right for those that dont have the money for a higher end set up.
  
 Honestly, I kind of want to buy a pair and see what all the fuzz is about, would probably buy them and keep it at my parents house whenever I go visit and play games on my PS3 or other old school systems (PS2, GamCube, PC with XP, etc)


----------



## KCchiefin24

oscarc said:


> Thanks. The USB just provides power, so theoretically it can plug into any port for power (TV, Cable box, etc.), right?
> 
> I plan to amp, but don't want to connect everything at once and get more confused setting it up. I have an O2 and FiiO E12 and not sure which one would be better.
> 
> I am assuming the Mixamp sits between the headphones and the amp. X1 -> BoomPro -> amp headphone jack, interconnect cable from amp -> Mixamp headphone jack. XBOX headset adapter via 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable to the controller part on Mixamp. Do I have it right?


 
  
 Literally just got my X1 and boompro set up. I have it as follows...

 X1/boompro -> supplied splitter (splits headphone and mic into separate 3.5mm jacks) -> headphone jack to amp -> amp to headphone in, mic jack to mic in (another splitter here to take separate headphone & mic inputs) -> mixamp -> Xbox via optical
  
 FWIW i'm using a Fiio e17 and can't complain.


----------



## inseconds99

kcchiefin24 said:


> Literally just got my X1 and boompro set up. I have it as follows...
> 
> 
> X1/boompro -> supplied splitter (splits headphone and mic into separate 3.5mm jacks) -> headphone jack to amp -> amp to headphone in, mic jack to mic in (another splitter here to take separate headphone & mic inputs) -> mixamp -> Xbox via optical
> ...




I'm waiting for my X1 to come in from the Amazon Lightning deal this week, I am going to be using it with a boom mic and an x7 and I'm moving my hyperx clouds to my Xbox one and ps4. What are your thoughts on the headphone for gaming?


----------



## Stillhart

vindication said:


> worth the money?


 
  
 That's a very subjective question.  Depends on your needs etc etc etc.  Do you need a portable super-high-end DAC with tons of connectivity?  I can't imagine many people who need the really specific combination of value items this thing has.
  
 For me, it's clearly not worth the money.  If you don't need portable, you can get the upcoming Schiit Yggdrasil for less money; it's supposed to sound better than just about any other DAC under $10k if you believe the folks who have heard it so far.  Or if you need portable, you can get an AK120 DAP, which is supposed to sound really good for half the cost of the Hugo.  etc.
  
 Don't get me wrong, I think the Hugo sounds absolutely phenominal.  But I don't think it's worth the money.


----------



## KCchiefin24

inseconds99 said:


> I'm waiting for my X1 to come in from the Amazon Lightning deal this week, I am going to be using it with a boom mic and an x7 and I'm moving my hyperx clouds to my Xbox one and ps4. What are your thoughts on the headphone for gaming?


 
  
 I've only been using them for about 30-60 minutes but I'm pretty stoked on them. I have a pair of ultrasone pro900s and a pair of hd598s and the X1 is like the glorious love child of those cans. Destiny and Farcy 4 sound pretty BA through them. Very fun headphone.


----------



## Hapster

yethal said:


> Shouldn't You run this setup like this:
> 
> usb > dac/amp> headphone port of the splitter > boom pro > headphones
> 
> minijack extension > mic port of the splitter > boom pro > headphones


 

 Actually, I have been doing that. I changed that shortly after drawing that picture. It didn't change anything though. I don't know if there's a way around it because of the way the boom pro is made.


----------



## Solarium

I recently got the HD700 and think of it as an improvement over the K712. Treble less bright, more layered, more resolution, more prominent/extended bass, more realistic soundstage, better imaging, more comfortable. I do miss that K712 airiness though.


----------



## wilflare

hello peeps! haven't been here for a long long while (wallet was safe in the meanwhile)
 what did I miss :O


----------



## Stillhart

wilflare said:


> hello peeps! haven't been here for a long long while (wallet was safe in the meanwhile)
> what did I miss :O


 
  
 X7, K7XX, X2.  Sorry about your wallet!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't touched Destiny in ages, but my FB news feed shows Xur is STILL managing to sell Sunbreakers even with all that new post DLC gear out in the wild. Bungie sure loves to agitate it's player base.

When in doubt, SUNBREAKERS.

I just find it hilarious.


----------



## CannonCollector

Hey guys, I need some help and it seems this topic is filled with people with knowledge 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Anyway I'm looking to buy a pair of cans exclusively for gaming for under 100 bucks... everyone is telling to get the hyper x but I don't like the idea of buying a headset since I'm not interested in the microphone and from what I've heard you headsets are average headphones with a microphone, although this are not my words so please forgive if I'm wrong... 
  
 Anyway I would apreciate some advice from an audiophile or someone who has had the hyper X and other audiophile cans to compare them, and as I said I'm not interested in microphones or any other of those features that significantly increases the money have to give for a normal pair (like wireless or 5.1 surround sound), all I really need is a nice pair just to play games with a good soundstage if possible


----------



## Evshrug

cannoncollector said:


> Hey guys...
> 
> Anyway I'm looking to buy a pair of cans exclusively for gaming for under 100 bucks... everyone is telling to get the hyper x but I don't like the idea of buying a headset since I'm not interested in the microphone and from what I've heard you headsets are average headphones with a microphone...



A good mindset, one that this thread was founded on! Well, that, and that you can add another device that processes surround sound and outputs a mix for regular stereo headphones. I agree with Mad's opinions, and fortunately the guide on the first post is organized by price bracket. You might want to consider if you want closed or open headphones, or if you'd be open to the idea to just buy a pair of the super-bargain Koss KSC75 for now ($10-$15 on Amazon, lifetime warranty), and then save up till you can afford something like an AKG K612, Sennheiser HD558 (just missed the $90 sale!), used MA900 from the classifieds, Creative Aurvana Live!... Check the reviews


----------



## lenroot77

cannoncollector said:


> Hey guys, I need some help and it seems this topic is filled with people with knowledge
> 
> Anyway I'm looking to buy a pair of cans exclusively for gaming for under 100 bucks... everyone is telling to get the hyper x but I don't like the idea of buying a headset since I'm not interested in the microphone and from what I've heard you headsets are average headphones with a microphone, although this are not my words so please forgive if I'm wrong...
> 
> Anyway I would apreciate some advice from an audiophile or someone who has had the hyper X and other audiophile cans to compare them, and as I said I'm not interested in microphones or any other of those features that significantly increases the money have to give for a normal pair (like wireless or 5.1 surround sound), all I really need is a nice pair just to play games with a good soundstage if possible




Check the first page of the guide. MLE has reviews in every price range. I personally would look for a sale on a pair of hd558s.


----------



## rudyae86

cannoncollector said:


> Hey guys, I need some help and it seems this topic is filled with people with knowledge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You know you can detach the mic from the Hyper X right? Also, they Hyper X are rebrands, which I keep forgetting who makes them but they are a know brand in audio. Also, depending on your preference of sound and what kind of gaming you do would help you out quickly in figuring out what headphone is best.
  
 The 558  could be a good headphone for you.
  
 Phillips SHP9500 is also a headphone I recommend.


----------



## lenroot77

I picked up a Playstation TV on the cheap... Man is it nice playing Persona Golden on a big screen. Looks pretty decent and sounds fab from the X7.

Speaking of the PS TV...truly an epic fail on Sony's part. If they could have had all the necessary video apps( Netflix, Hulu, ect. ) this thing could have been huge. It's price point is similar to roku/ Apple TV and it could have done so much more. Oh well!


----------



## hilyou

> I picked up a Playstation TV on the cheap... Man is it nice playing Persona Golden on a big screen. Looks pretty decent and sounds fab from the X7.


 
  
 How do you have it connected to the X7? 
  
 I noticed that the PS TV doesn't have an optical out.


----------



## CannonCollector

lenroot77 said:


> Check the first page of the guide. MLE has reviews in every price range. I personally would look for a sale on a pair of hd558s.


 
  


rudyae86 said:


> You know you can detach the mic from the Hyper X right? Also, they Hyper X are rebrands, which I keep forgetting who makes them but they are a know brand in audio. Also, depending on your preference of sound and what kind of gaming you do would help you out quickly in figuring out what headphone is best.
> 
> The 558  could be a good headphone for you.
> 
> Phillips SHP9500 is also a headphone I recommend.


 
 Thanks I'll take a look at those two
  
 The games I play are mostly open world, horror or rpg's tbh... games like ac unity and dying light (which I heard is pretty intense with a decent pair). In terms of shooter (the reason many people want to buy a good pair of headphones) I rarely play any.. a bit of counter strike here and there but that's it, so my main focus is for open world games which I'm guessing phones with a good soundstage would do fine


----------



## lenroot77

hilyou said:


> How do you have it connected to the X7?
> 
> 
> I noticed that the PS TV doesn't have an optical out.





The ps TV only outputs 2 channel and connects to my tv via hmdi. I have the x7 connected to my tv via optical.


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> Also, they Hyper X are rebrands, which I keep forgetting who makes them but they are a know brand in audio.


 
  
 QPAD.


----------



## Hapster

X2s arrived earlier today. Playing some CS:GO, they're absolutely amazing.


----------



## inseconds99

hapster said:


> X2s arrived earlier today. Playing some CS:GO, they're absolutely amazing.




I'm jealous, I ordered the x1 because it was only 169 and I hope I made the right decision. I didn't want to spend over $300 for the x2 as I am hoping the X1 at half the price will get me 90% of the way there.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> I'm jealous, I ordered the x1 because it was only 169 and I hope I made the right decision. I didn't want to spend over $300 for the x2 as I am hoping the X1 at half the price will get me 90% of the way there.




Dude, you got a steal and arguably the better value. Be happy with condidence


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I'm jealous, I ordered the x1 because it was only 169 and I hope I made the right decision. I didn't want to spend over $300 for the x2 as I am hoping the X1 at half the price will get me 90% of the way there.


 
  
 This is exactly the case.  You'll love the X1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I may have to rma my X2. Going through music and then sweeps, i just realized the bass is non existent on one cup until about 60hz, and the other goes quite a bit further down. This causes sub bass to fire entirely just on one side. Looks like I'll be without it for awhile. This is gonna hurt, since i love it so much. Back to my 15G.

For gaming its no big deal, since so much of it focuses on 60 hz and above to begin with... which is why i didn't notice, since i haven't been playing music much.

Bass imbalance is one of the worst you can have.


----------



## Hapster

mad lust envy said:


> I may have to rma my X2. Going through music and then sweeps, i just realized the bass is non existent on one cup until about 60hz, and the other goes quite a bit further down. This causes sub bass to fire entirely just on one side. Looks like I'll be without it for awhile. This is gonna hurt, since i love it so much. Back to my 15G.
> 
> For gaming its no big deal, since so much of it focuses on 60 hz and above to begin with... which is why i didn't notice, since i haven't been playing music much.
> 
> Bass imbalance is one of the worst you can have.



Odd. I'm gonna do a quick test on mine to see if this is something that's prevalent.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, that's messed up. Hopefully it will be a quick turnaround time for you. I feel for you, though 

I haven't been playing much music, myself, when I'm home. It's always the K7XX getting the most head time since I now have a variety of games to choose from. There would be times when I felt regret over selling the Annie, K712, and K612. I do think, however, as if it was meant to be since I now have an equivalent to the Annie. Not to mention it's cost was only a little more than what I had paid for the K612. Ain't that something?

I was also able to hear some great headphones, in between, including the X2. I would have to say it was a good learning experience for me, to say the least.


----------



## Evshrug

cannoncollector said:


> Thanks I'll take a look at those two
> 
> The games I play are mostly open world, horror or rpg's tbh... games like ac unity and dying light (which I heard is pretty intense with a decent pair). In terms of shooter (the reason many people want to buy a good pair of headphones) I rarely play any.. a bit of counter strike here and there but that's it, so my main focus is for open world games which I'm guessing phones with a good soundstage would do fine


 
 Oh hey, remember that Sennheiser HD558 deal that you just missed before getting here? Best buy still has the sale price matched: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones-titan/1700513.p?id=1218285361000&skuId=1700513&cmp=RMX&ky=2b44p0DlBylfhrwZ3uIFhJ6JtKv2FGwEE&ref=&loc=


----------



## CannonCollector

evshrug said:


> Oh hey, remember that Sennheiser HD558 deal that you just missed before getting here? Best buy still has the sale price matched: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones-titan/1700513.p?id=1218285361000&skuId=1700513&cmp=RMX&ky=2b44p0DlBylfhrwZ3uIFhJ6JtKv2FGwEE&ref=&loc=


 
 wow great deal indeed... sadly I'm not from the US though so can't grab the deal


----------



## Joooordaaaaaaan

Hi everyone. I'm looking to buy a headset or headphone and mic combo to work on not only consoles, but PC as well. Currrently I'm using a pair of Koss KSC75s for *everything*, so it's about time I upgraded from my scrub set-up to something better. I'd really appreciate some suggestions. I live in the UK, and my budget can stretch up to £250 (maybe £300 if needs be, but I'd rather not).
  
 I am leaning towards a headset rather then a headphone and mic combo because I want to hear the playback of my voice when I speak (I'm sure I could set something up on my PC to do that, but that might be a pain in the ass if I wanted to do it on console with separate headphones & mic), however I'd need a mic that can work on all my consoles and PC (blargh, adapters 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




). I currently have a Xbox 360 and a PS4 (with a Xbox One coming sometime this year), and my PC's mobo is an ASRock z97 Extreme6 (so my mobo can run upto 600 ohm headphones, the onboard audio isn't absolute ****).
  
 I also record my console gaming with an Elgato HD60, so I'd need to be able to use optical out on the consoles (my PC also has optical out) for my listening whilst recording sound on my HD60 through HDMI. Would I be better of just getting a separate headphone and mic combo for PC then have another headset & amp combo for the consoles, or would there be a single solution for me?
  
 And if it makes any difference to the headphones you'd recommend, I mainly play shooters (love me some GoW & I have a soft spot for Battlefield as well) so positional audio is probably the most important thing for me. I don't care about how a headset  would work with other media, I want something just for gaming, so it can have as little bass as needs be, the flatter the better tbh. I don't mind open cans, if it gives me a wider soundstage I'm all for it. I also don't want to skimp on the build quality, as I am a bit of a klutz, so I want something fairly durable (doesn't have to be military-grade durable, I'm not that bad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).
  
 Thank you in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## Evshrug

Mic monitoring is so distracting for me that I avoid headsets altogether, mostly. You're on your own if you need mic monitoring to keep yourself from shouting.

Also, I'm not current on what the conversion rate and sale prices are in Europe/England, which headphones listed on the first post of this thread are within your budget?

Thirdly, I don't think you necessarily need two separate headphones for PC/Console use, and if your ASRock motherboard also has optical out (sounds like the Elgado could give you optical either way) you could just use a Turtle Beach DSS as a DAC on both setups and just find a network of adapters to get your mic working in each setup. Honestly, if the Elgado is supposed to also record your voice during recording/streaming, then you ought to just route mic through that and the Elgado ought to be designed to do the monitoring you desire. Mic/chat audio is the most challenging setup issue with current-gen systems, and the XBOne is the most complicated.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Mic monitoring is so distracting for me that I avoid headsets altogether, mostly. You're on your own if you need mic monitoring to keep yourself from shouting.
> 
> Also, I'm not current on what the conversion rate and sale prices are in Europe/England, which headphones listed on the first post of this thread are within your budget?
> 
> Thirdly, I don't think you necessarily need two separate headphones for PC/Console use, and if your ASRock motherboard also has optical out (sounds like the Elgado could give you optical either way) you could just use a Turtle Beach DSS as a DAC on both setups and just find a network of adapters to get your mic working in each setup. Honestly, if the Elgado is supposed to also record your voice during recording/streaming, then you ought to just route mic through that and the Elgado ought to be designed to do the monitoring you desire. Mic/chat audio is the most challenging setup issue with current-gen systems, and the XBOne is the most complicated.


 
  
 I like mic monitoring because it helps me get away from that "talking while wearing a closed headphone" echo effect that happens inside the ear. But then I primarily stick to open headphones. And yeah, if you're using it only to monitor how loud you are then that's just silly.


----------



## CannonCollector

mad lust envy said:


> I had the 600ohm 990s. All three need some amping however. A soundcard can amp relative efficient headphones, but I'm not so sure about the three Premium Beyers. Probably best off with the 250ohm as the 32ohm is more expensive and seems to be even harder to drive than the 250ohm...


 
 Do you think this is a good setup for gaming or won't it be enough to feed the dt990 pro? 
  
 mixamp pro or DSS/2 ---> Fiio e17 --> DT 990 Pro 250ohms
  
  
 You seem to know a lot in this area and I saw on another post that you had previously used a similiar setup (might me mistaken though) so that's why I'd like to know what you think of it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

E17 is at its limit. I suggest the Fiio E12 at MINIMUM.


----------



## CannonCollector

mad lust envy said:


> E17 is at its limit. I suggest the Fiio E12 at MINIMUM.


 
 Hmm what would be the cheapest amp to feed them? Just wondering since I'm planning on using the DT's for gaming only (and maybe for movies some time) and since my gaming sessions are not that long, I'd prefer something along the cheaper section


----------



## lenroot77

cannoncollector said:


> Hmm what would be the cheapest amp to feed them? Just wondering since I'm planning on using the DT's for gaming only (and maybe for movies some time) and since my gaming sessions are not that long, I'd prefer something along the cheaper section




I used to use a fiio E09k for my dt990 250 ohms. These can be found used for 60-75.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> I used to use a fiio E09k for my dt990 250 ohms. These can be found used for 60-75.


 
  
 I've been looking for one on sale/used since my Ember sold.  Yours had already gone at that point.  I haven't seen them cheap since.
  
 On the other hand, even at their new price, it's cheaper than the E12.


----------



## Stillhart

cannoncollector said:


> Hmm what would be the cheapest amp to feed them? Just wondering since I'm planning on using the DT's for gaming only (and maybe for movies some time) and since my gaming sessions are not that long, I'd prefer something along the cheaper section


 
  
 I don't know if Monoprice ships internationally, but you can try this one:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/12330#post_11303323


----------



## Joooordaaaaaaan

evshrug said:


> Mic monitoring is so distracting for me that I avoid headsets altogether, mostly. You're on your own if you need mic monitoring to keep yourself from shouting.
> 
> Also, I'm not current on what the conversion rate and sale prices are in Europe/England, which headphones listed on the first post of this thread are within your budget?
> 
> Thirdly, I don't think you necessarily need two separate headphones for PC/Console use, and if your ASRock motherboard also has optical out (sounds like the Elgado could give you optical either way) you could just use a Turtle Beach DSS as a DAC on both setups and just find a network of adapters to get your mic working in each setup. Honestly, if the Elgado is supposed to also record your voice during recording/streaming, then you ought to just route mic through that and the Elgado ought to be designed to do the monitoring you desire. Mic/chat audio is the most challenging setup issue with current-gen systems, and the XBOne is the most complicated.


 
  
 I'm open to suggestions of just headphones alone, don't let my desire of mic monitoring stop you. And I'm only looking at things in Tier B, Tier A is too much money for me. Also ignore what I said about the elgato, worse case scenario I'll just buy a splitter (the elgato takes analogue audio in luckily).
  
 To be honest the DT990 Pro (250 ohm) @ £115 seem like the best value to me (from just looking at Amazon). In comparison, the Sennheiser HD598s are £154, Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X are £175, AKG K701s are £141 & K702s are £149, K612 PROs are just £105 but from a 3rd party seller I haven't used before (I'll have to research), Q701s are £199 and the A50s are £250 (with the mixamp).
  
 Would the extra £35-40 up from the DT990 to the HD598/K702 be worth it (presuming it's an upgrade at all)? The money certainly isn't a problem, but if the difference is negligible then I don't see the point of paying extra.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you don't have a decent amp, the 990 Pro will sound quite thin, harsh, and loose on the bass.

As as been stated, the E9K is a cheap option that will drive the 990s with plenty of power. For portable amping, the E12.


----------



## Joooordaaaaaaan

Sorry to bombard the thread with questions but I have another one on the Astro Mixamp Pro, does the game/chat volume mixer turn down the game audio as it turns up the chat audio (and vice versa) or does it just individually control the chat audio? Because not implementing individual control for each seems idiotic. Being able to change voice chat independently from game audio is something I miss since I stopped using turtle beach headsets (I don't miss the awful build quality or OTT bass), I'd like it if there's a solution that can do this.
  
 My ideal product would be an external USB DAC that supports DDL, can amp mid-high end cans, and use multiple inputs (optical and 3.5mm jack, presuming you can convert Xbox 360 & Xbox One chat cables to 3.5mm) that allows the volume of both inputs to be changed (individually with two different knobs/sliders) on the fly, all for a reasonable price.
  
 Is the Astro Mixamp the closest its going to get for sub $200? I'm hoping there's a good enough solution for everything rather than having to buy the mixamp for console and something else for PC.


----------



## Sam21

you could use a sound card's Optical out to a good DAC that has optical in. Some sound cards can send DDL signals through optical out, check out Creative X-fi 5.1 or Xonar U3.


----------



## Change is Good

So, my M50x just arrived. Why didn't I just get these a long time ago? I'm reminded of how good these are, plus they are really portable.

I probably would not have found them for the price I paid a long time ago, though.


----------



## CannonCollector

So after watching the suggestions you guys gave me for an amp for the dt990, I decided I'm Going for the E09K... I already have the fiio e17 so I don't see a reason not to get the rest of the combo (even if it's gonna cost me a bit more)
  
 Now another thing that's been annoying me a bit... how powerfull is the E09K? It's more powerfull than the E17 of course but for example is the E09K amp as powerful as the E12? And will I be to utilize the E09K amp and the DAC from the E17 from this setup (gonna put it right below)? Sorry if this has already been mentioned
  
 dt990 250ohm ---> E09K + E17 ----> DSS1/2 or mixamp pro ---> ps4


----------



## Stillhart

cannoncollector said:


> So after watching the suggestions you guys gave me for an amp for the dt990, I decided I'm Going for the E09K... I already have the fiio e17 so I don't see a reason not to get the rest of the combo (even if it's gonna cost me a bit more)
> 
> Now another thing that's been annoying me a bit... how powerfull is the E09K? It's more powerfull than the E17 of course but for example is the E09K amp as powerful as the E12? And will I be to utilize the E09K amp and the DAC from the E17 from this setup (gonna put it right below)? Sorry if this has already been mentioned
> 
> dt990 250ohm ---> E09K + E17 ----> DSS1/2 or mixamp pro ---> ps4


 
  
 No you won't be able to use the E17 with that setup, just the E09k.


----------



## Kukulcanz

Hello guys
  
 I have already asked in another section of the forums, but i would like to ask this too here ;
  
 I am about to change my old KAVE 5.1 headset, which gave up ( lasted 3 years ) and i was leaning towards a more efficient headphone + microphone combo since i heard it's better.
  
 In my price range ( $ 100 - $ 200 about ) i have found what i think are good sets for gaming and listening to music/watching movies ( which is what i do mainly on pc ) . Not much of an audiophile though.
  
 Anyway the headphones i was thinking of are ;
  
 Sennheiser HD558
 Superlux HD668 ( a bit more economic than the others actually )
 Audio Technica ATH AD 700x
 Beyerdynamics DT990 Pro ( 250 ohm version ).
  
 and also the headset G4ME ONE from Sennheiser ; which should supposedly be similar to a HD5xx serie.
  
 I don't have intention to buy an amp too , i would prefer a headphone that sounds good as it is. Which one should i prefer ?
  
 I am about to order the HD558 actually but would like to hear frome someone more expert.


----------



## Change is Good

Is the 558 still on sale? If so, then it's a no brainer for your price range.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Is the 558 still on sale? If so, then it's a no brainer for your price range.


 
  
 Yup, $90 at Best Buy.
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones-titan/1700513.p?id=1218285361000&skuId=1700513


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> Is the 558 still on sale? If so, then it's a no brainer for your price range.


 
  
 I am nowhere near the U.S.A. or any best buy retail.. i can get these for what i think is around 120$ in €.


----------



## Change is Good

kukulcanz said:


> I am nowhere near the U.S.A. or any best buy retail.. i can get these for what i think is around 120$ in €.




How much is the K612 in your area?


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> How much is the K612 in your area?


 
  
 Like 135$ , but i know that would require an amp too because of the higher impendance.


----------



## Change is Good

Ah, yes, forgot you said you would rather not have to get one. How about the SoundMAGIC HP200?


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone in the states interested in a pair of Premium DT770s 32ohm? PM me if so


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> Ah, yes, forgot you said you would rather not have to get one. How about the SoundMAGIC HP200?


 
  
 I saw those too during my research but they are like 280$ , a bit too much for what i wanted to spend. For that price range ( 250 and above ) i would much prefer something like HiFiMan HE400 anyway.


----------



## Change is Good

Yikes.

Honestly, the K612 is your best bet if you can find an E12 for a good price. $200 is your budget, correct? Will those two items fall within that budget?


----------



## CannonCollector

I see thanks, guess I'm gonna continue my search for cheaper amps able to handle the dt's than


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Honestly, the K612 is your best bet if you can find an E12 for a good price. $200 is your budget, correct? Will those two items fall within that budget?


 
  
 I don't think, the amp alone is around 130$ . I can find an E10 for about 80$  but still overall i think it would be too much.


----------



## Change is Good

558 it is, then...


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> 558 it is, then...


 
  
 Yeah so i thought.
  
 Passing from a KAVE i guess the quality jump will be kinda heavy. I will probably way some sort of sound card later .


----------



## Boubos

Would like to get comments on the Senn PC 350 headset that I would hook to an Astro Mix Amp, to solely play FPS on Xb1.

I currently use my Stax SR 202 / SRM212 Headphone/amp with a small clip on as a mic, but would like better positioning and closed back to eliminate outside noise, and was thinking of the Senn PC 350 SE headset???

Any other suggestion on closed back??

Will this setup be better then my current one for gaming??


----------



## burritoboy9984

kukulcanz said:


> Hello guys
> 
> I have already asked in another section of the forums, but i would like to ask this too here ;
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not sure if you can get these in your area or not, but these are awesome entry level headphones for gaming. I'm currently using them over my X1's. They also have a detachable cable so you can snag a boompro and use it. I got my pair for less than $70 on ebay.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717690/philips-shp9500-discussion-thread


----------



## AxelCloris

If any of you gaming folks are considering an HP200 I have an offer for people in this tread. Not going to try and promote it, so if you're interested send me a PM.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> If any of you gaming folks are considering an HP200 I have an offer for people in this tread. Not going to try and promote it, so if you're interested send me a PM.


 
 Man I really love my HP100.  I have yet to hear the HP200, but I've heard good things about it and I can believe it.  Anyone looking for a deal on a good open gaming can could do worse.


----------



## CannonCollector

After doing some research I think the shiit magni is a pretty good amp and it's pretty cheap too... Anyway since it's not possible to use the Fiio E17 with the E09K and the mixamp on the ps4 I'm wondering is it even possible to use a amp+dac combo with the mixamp on the ps4? And is it worth getting a DAC for the ps4 (if it works with the mixamp) considering it's for gaming so I doubt there's gonna be THAT much of a diffrence in sound when gaming, not to mention the confusion with the cables :|


----------



## Stillhart

cannoncollector said:


> After doing some research I think the shiit magni is a pretty good amp and it's pretty cheap too... Anyway since it's not possible to use the Fiio E17 with the E09K and the mixamp on the ps4 I'm wondering is it even possible to use a amp+dac combo with the mixamp on the ps4? And is it worth getting a DAC for the ps4 (if it works with the mixamp) considering it's for gaming so I doubt there's gonna be THAT much of a diffrence in sound when gaming, not to mention the confusion with the cables :|



You are correct, it's not possible to use any DAC with the Mixamp. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. The Mixamp is already a DAC and you can't have two.


----------



## glow9

Why is it that so many people seem to recommend low bass headphones for gaming. I just think of explosions or gun fire or thunder wouldn't you want to be immersed a little more. I'm basing this on reviews I've been reading for example people claim the bass on 598's is very low but yet it's highly recommended but the "sound stage" is good. So from what I understand you can hear people running around you in a circle all day long but you won't feel the explosion as much next to you. I'm hoping someone can clear this up for me a bit. Thank you!


----------



## Change is Good

Strong bass sometimes tends to bleed into the mids, which is where footsteps, voices, and other ambient noises are concentrated.


----------



## glow9

I have a pair of DT990 pro's 250 OHM's and I really dislike the spiral cable, I prefer a straight cable. I would like less sibilance in music and a bit more bass in gaming. I also have big ears. I've probably done at least 10 hours worth of research and I'm at that point where I've read myself dumb. I wear headphones for 4-5 hours a day at home for everything (Comfort is a big deal). I use a sound card Soundblaster Z with a built in amp. Not sure how good the amp is but says it can run up to 600 OHM's. Based on what I said above what would you guys recommend under $200 and under $300. Thanks a lot this thread seems to be full of the people I should be asking this to. Also only full-sized circumaural ear pads not headphones not looking at headset with mic.
  
 Thanks so much!


----------



## Stillhart

glow9 said:


> I have a pair of DT990 pro's 250 OHM's and I really dislike the spiral cable, I prefer a straight cable. I would like less sibilance in music and a bit more bass in gaming. I also have big ears. I've probably done at least 10 hours worth of research and I'm at that point where I've read myself dumb. I wear headphones for 4-5 hours a day at home for everything (Comfort is a big deal). I use a sound card Soundblaster Z with a built in amp. Not sure how good the amp is but says it can run up to 600 OHM's. Based on what I said above what would you guys recommend under $200 and under $300. Thanks a lot this thread seems to be full of the people I should be asking this to. Also only full-sized circumaural ear pads not headphones not looking at headset with mic.
> 
> Thanks so much!


 
  
 Not sure what to tell you if you're looking for more bass than the DT990.  Those things were pretty bassy when I tried them briefly.  Maybe the Fidelio X1?


----------



## Boubos

Mad is talking great of the PC 360 headset, but am looking for a cloed back set.
  
 Is the PC 350 SE any close in performance for gaming?
  
 Anybody has any information on that?
  
 Or anybody could suggest something different but as performing for gaming?
  
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## CannonCollector

stillhart said:


> You are correct, it's not possible to use any DAC with the Mixamp. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. The Mixamp is already a DAC and you can't have two.


 
 Good I really want to use the surround sound device so guess I only need an amp now.
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## Change is Good

boubos said:


> Mad is talking great of the PC 360 headset, but am looking for a cloed back set.
> 
> Is the PC 350 SE any close in performance for gaming?
> 
> ...




SoundMAGIC HP100 or HP150, Audio Technical ATH-M50x, Shure SRH840


----------



## Kukulcanz

change is good said:


> SoundMAGIC HP100 or HP150, Audio Technical ATH-M50x, Shure SRH840


 
  
 I don't know the M50x , they are not that great for gaming. I know Beyerdynamics has a closed set of cans called Custom One Pro which is at least better than that.
  
 It also has a mod for the mic, much like v-moda BoomPro . Same kind of attachment but made for the C.O.P. from Beyerdynamic.
  
 You could also grab a pair of Philips Fidelio X1 , if you can find them. They are discontinued , since there is X2 version. I heard they don't sound good as the X1 though, and they cost much more.
  
 Take also a look at Audio Technica ATH A500x and 700x, they are not as good as their AD variant ( which is open back ) but certainly better than the M50x for gaming. Better positional audio.
  
 Beyerdynamics also has DT770 , a closed set of cans.. very good but they require good amping to really get the max out of them.


----------



## conquerator2

I know a guy who really likes the Beyerdynamic MMX300... Dunno whether that one is a rebrand or not.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> I know a guy who really likes the Beyerdynamic MMX300... Dunno whether that one is a rebrand or not.


 
  
 I believe it's a DT770 with a mic.


----------



## Kukulcanz

stillhart said:


> I believe it's a DT770 with a mic.


 
  
 They cost a lot more though, and probably sound worse. Never tried though.
  
 It's in general that closed sets are not so good for gaming but sometimes it can't be helped i guess.


----------



## Boubos

On closed back set, anybody ever tried the Bose QC25 in a gaming environment?

Are they any good for sound whoring and positionning?


----------



## rudyae86

boubos said:


> On closed back set, anybody ever tried the Bose QC25 in a gaming environment?
> 
> Are they any good for sound whoring and positionning?




I doubt they are meant to be for sound whoring, given they are closed back. Any comeback headphone will more likely give you less soundstage, slightly more bass, depending if it's already a bass headphone, and the fact that you can't hear yourself when you talk or chat when gaming.

There are some exceptions though like the soundtrack hp100, though have not listened to them, but have read they are a pretty good set for being closed back.

Also the PC350 SE seems to be a headset no one really looks out for, especially for the price it sometimes goes for, about 100 bucks when theirs a deal. I have them and they work quite well for FPS but they do lack some soundstage and the bass isn't as punchy but solid. But that's a good thing in a way since the mids and the highs are more noticeable.

If I'm correct and hopefully I am...but the PC350 SE is the 380 Pro? There really isn't much info on both of them and I'm still trying to look out for more info...


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> I doubt they are meant to be for sound whoring, given they are closed back. Any comeback headphone will more likely give you less soundstage, slightly more bass, depending if it's already a bass headphone, and the fact that you can't hear yourself when you talk or chat when gaming.
> 
> There are some exceptions though like the soundtrack hp100, though have not listened to them, but have read they are a pretty good set for being closed back.
> 
> ...




I had the pc350 SE 's recently and I thought they were a good buy for the 120 dollars I spent. The sound isolation on those is by far the best I've used. Those things clamp down around your ears and it's near impossible to hear anything around u. Soundstage seemed good enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

glow9 said:


> I have a pair of DT990 pro's 250 OHM's and I really dislike the spiral cable, I prefer a straight cable. I would like less sibilance in music and a bit more bass in gaming. I also have big ears. I've probably done at least 10 hours worth of research and I'm at that point where I've read myself dumb. I wear headphones for 4-5 hours a day at home for everything (Comfort is a big deal). I use a sound card Soundblaster Z with a built in amp. Not sure how good the amp is but says it can run up to 600 OHM's. Based on what I said above what would you guys recommend under $200 and under $300. Thanks a lot this thread seems to be full of the people I should be asking this to. Also only full-sized circumaural ear pads not headphones not looking at headset with mic.
> 
> Thanks so much!




You sir, are a basshead. More bass than the 990 Pro? Jesus.

Forget looking at open headphones, because nothing catches up with the 990 Pro in terms of bass, not even the X1. Don't bother even trying to find any open headphones with bass that strong.

I don't even know what to recommend, because you lose so much quality going from open to closed, with more bass as a caveat. The ones I've tried are all recessed mids, and sibilant treble. The 770 Pro 80, perhaps, though don't expect smooth treble. I would suggest the original Creative Aurvana Live, which can be had for like $75 nowadays, and quite a fantastic headphone even if nearly double that price.

Too bad the D2000 is no longer sold.

Your price range is what limits you. Otherwise, things like the Shure 1540/TH600 are probably ideal.


----------



## Change is Good

Might want to check out some of the basshead threads because not even the 1540 will have that amount of bass.


----------



## calpis

*cough* Pro2900 *cough* bass mod *cough*


----------



## vlenbo

@Mad Lust Envy , I know this may have been discussed a awhile back, but I want to contribute to this thread by posting my impressions of the ath-msr7's gaming capability. 
  
 Along with that headphone, I want to post the thinksound-on1's gaming capability as well. I will also probably buy my first open back to compare the soundstaging vs a closed back headphone.
  
 Would I need a soundcard for my pc and the software of dolby headphone (which comes with certain soundcards) to fully test the headphone's staging and positioning capability?
  
  
 I have an Asus Xonar DX in my rig. I only used it on my a900x and staging was amazing to hear from a closed back headphone.
  
 I only want to verify my testing method.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/

Hey guys, my Schiit Vali review. I think the editor missed quite a few things...



calpis said:


> *cough* Pro2900 *cough* bass mod *cough*




Sibilance...


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Hey guys, my Schiit Vali review. I think the editor missed quite a few things...
> Sibilance...


 
 +1 on the sibilance.
  
 Mad, great review  of the Vali! Certainly piqued my interest as I've never heard a tube amp before.
 Though I wonder, how much difference would there be from the SA31SE for example? I know you owned that unit and lots of people say the SA31 has a bit of a tubey sound to it... So I wonder 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 The SA31SE would serve as a preamp probably.


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> You sir, are a basshead. More bass than the 990 Pro? Jesus.
> 
> Forget looking at open headphones, because nothing catches up with the 990 Pro in terms of bass, not even the X1. Don't bother even trying to find any open headphones with bass that strong.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks, I'll try increasing the bass in my sound blaster settings see if that helps since it seems really low in the headphones. I miss on the old sound blaster software I'd just change the EQ to dance and set it on gamer setting and I'd be good to go. Now all the EQ settings I think are crap so I don't use them and there is no gamer setting very hard to find a setting for both music and gaming. Maybe I should change my price range :/
  
 Thanks


----------



## CannonCollector

After doing some research I think the shiit magni is a pretty good amp and it's pretty cheap too... Anyway since it's not possible to use the Fiio E17 with the E09K and the mixamp on the ps4... is it even possible to use a amp+dac combo with the mixamp on the ps4? And is it worth getting a DAC for the ps4 (if it works with the mixamp) considering it's for gaming so I doubt there's gonna be THAT much of a diffrence in sound when gaming, not to mention the confusion with the cables :|

 DT990 PRO 250ohm --> shiit vali OR shiit magni OR O2 amp (If anyone is willing to help me decide, I'm up for sugestions for what combo is better with the DT990) --> DSS1 Ear Force  ---> PS4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Cannon, you need to understand that the Mixamp IS a dac. No dac, ABSOLUTELY NO DAC will work with the Mixamp. A dac/amp, sure, assuming the dac/amp has at least one analog input.


----------



## glow9

I see a number of people comparing DT 990s with 598's. I honestly have no experience with 598's. Why would one choose 598's over the DT990's? I'm throwing it out there as an option as it comes with a straight cord and has a replaceable cord as well. Not sure if they would be as comfortable and from what I've read the 598's are not as good in terms of sound quality but I assume people in here and Mad Lust has actually used them both. In Canada the 598's are on sale for $148 and with the exchange right now being crap that's a pretty good price since it's on par with Amazon US pricing. I'm still not opposed to spending above $200-350 for headphones but I need to be darn sure they are some of the best ones ever. The Creative headphones you mentioned looked good but based on the top band I do not think I would like it much.

 Thanks again everyone.


----------



## Evshrug

vlenbo said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> , I know this may have been discussed a awhile back, but I want to contribute to this thread by posting my impressions of the ath-msr7's gaming capability.
> 
> Along with that headphone, I want to post the thinksound-on1's gaming capability as well. I will also probably buy my first open back to compare the soundstaging vs a closed back headphone.
> ...



Hey vlento,
I think a review (or two) would be great! I actually don't recall either of those models being discussed (Mad certainly hasn't reviewed them), and though we generally prefer open headphones with particularly good soundstaging and imaging (strengths of open headphones), there will be people or times when closed headphones will be desired and more reviews would be a good thing.

The Xonar DX is a fine Soundcard with Dolby Headphone; total performance of a headphone is often heightened when you add a high-quality amp, however you can generally get a good feel for a headphone's character even using the amps built-in to soundcards. For example, the amount of bass/mids/treble generally feels the same, and so does the tone, and these are the most recognizable parts of a headphone. Adding an amp generally helps at the extremes of the frequency range, with tighter bass control and less brittle treble, and overall the headphone will seem to struggle less and be more strong/fit to reproduce the music/audio effortlessly, which also helps a smidgen with instrument separation/imaging and perceiving different depths of soundstage. When I first got my Q701 and I only had a mere FiiO E5 as an amp (more as a volume control at the end of an Xbox 360 RCA cable), I knew it was a bit better than my AD700, but, even having never had a better amp, I knew the tiny E5 was holding the Q701 back.

When you write your reviews, go ahead and post them here, but also copy/paste them into Head-Fi's product page for that headphone.that way, we can discuss it here in the thread, but also find the review easily weeks from now when many more posts have been made in this thread.

I don't always follow my own suggestion, but here's how I'd suggest framing your review:
•short pros and cons list.
•a little personal story or background on why you chose these headphones, maybe include what kind of sound you were looking for (helps reader relate, and maybe identify your sonic preferences). 
•Physical build and accessories.
•Talk about their sound, such as their bass, Mids, treble, tonal realism, and identify any special strengths or anything particularly relevant to gamers.
•Comfort: initial and during a long gaming session. Physical comfort and listening fatigue.
•Wrap it up with final thoughts/opinions; what's your level of enthusiasm and would you recommend it, what kind of situation or person would you recommend it for. 

Don't use numerical scores, those confuse readers and any general comparative numbers of "just how good" will become dated as soon as you hear new headphones. During the rest of your review, you will ought to have pointed out already any characteristics that impressed you or underwhelmed you, THAT will mean more to others than "subjective numbers."






glow9 said:


> Thanks, I'll try increasing the bass in my sound blaster settings see if that helps since it seems really low in the headphones. I miss on the old sound blaster software I'd just change the EQ to dance and set it on gamer setting and I'd be good to go. Now all the EQ settings I think are crap so I don't use them and there is no gamer setting very hard to find a setting for both music and gaming. Maybe I should change my price range :/
> 
> Thanks



There's a balance between frequent upgrades/experiments of different headphones, to learn what you like, and saving up for a long-term investment in enjoyment. Seems like you know you love bass, but maybe you just like an immediate forward and big sounding headphone... that requires mids too. Or maybe sub bass extension for that terrainian rumble. I don't surely know, I'm not you, and I bet you've only experienced a few headphones... Maybe you'd appreciate what an HD650 has to offer in terms of a warm, thick/weighty, immediate sound, or maybe the super-extension of the HE-400's bass would impress you.

Or maybe, you haven't found the EQ settings you like yet, or the DT990 Pro would benefit from a capable amp in-between the Sound Blaster and the headphone. I'd suggest these less expensive steps first, because (as we've already pointed out) bass quantity isn't an inherent weakness of the DT990 Pro, and you'll want to learn the effects of increasing mids/bass and decreasing treble & at the DT990's level and above you'd want to have a decent amp anyway... At this point you've gone beyond portable headphones plugged into an all-in-one iPod, and Mad particularly recommends using a good amp with the higher-end Beyerdynamics.

DT990 Pro is the cheaper one, with coiled cable, more clamp, and lower build quality, right? A bargain so long as you don't mind those things.


----------



## CannonCollector

mad lust envy said:


> Cannon, you need to understand that the Mixamp IS a dac. No dac, ABSOLUTELY NO DAC will work with the Mixamp. A dac/amp, sure, assuming the dac/amp has at least one analog input.


 
  
  
  
 Oh god I'm sorry that was not the comment, I was supose to put in here (I copy my comments on a notepad before posting them, dont ask why 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




) anyway this is the comment that was suposed to appear:
  
 So now that my setup is chosen... I'm having with something I hadn't planned which are the cables... First of all using the setup mentioned under this, will I need any kind of special super expensive cable? And what cables will I need in general using this setup:
  
 DT990 PRO 250ohm --> shiit vali OR shiit magni OR O2 amp (If anyone is willign to help me decide, I'm up for sugestions) --> DSS1 Ear Force  ---> PS4


----------



## lenroot77

glow9 said:


> I see a number of people comparing DT 990s with 598's. I honestly have no experience with 598's. Why would one choose 598's over the DT990's? I'm throwing it out there as an option as it comes with a straight cord and has a replaceable cord as well. Not sure if they would be as comfortable and from what I've read the 598's are not as good in terms of sound quality but I assume people in here and Mad Lust has actually used them both. In Canada the 598's are on sale for $148 and with the exchange right now being crap that's a pretty good price since it's on par with Amazon US pricing. I'm still not opposed to spending above $200-350 for headphones but I need to be darn sure they are some of the best ones ever. The Creative headphones you mentioned looked good but based on the top band I do not think I would like it much.
> 
> 
> Thanks again everyone.




The 598s will give a more balanced/ neutral sound than the dt990s. The dt990s signature is v shaped, it's a very "fun headset". While the dt990s sound stage is large, the 598s is larger. if u are looking for more in depth comparisons of the two I'd recommend googling it. While most topics won't be geared twords games, they will give u a better idea of the sound differences between the two.


----------



## lenroot77

Newegg has hd600's for 255... Looks like a pretty good deal!


----------



## Evshrug

cannoncollector said:


> After doing some research I think the shiit magni is a pretty good amp and it's pretty cheap too... Anyway since it's not possible to use the Fiio E17 with the E09K and the mixamp on the ps4... is it even possible to use a amp+dac combo with the mixamp on the ps4? And is it worth getting a DAC for the ps4 (if it works with the mixamp) considering it's for gaming so I doubt there's gonna be THAT much of a diffrence in sound when gaming, not to mention the confusion with the cables :|
> 
> 
> DT990 PRO 250ohm --> shiit vali OR shiit magni OR O2 amp (If anyone is willing to help me decide, I'm up for sugestions for what combo is better with the DT990) --> DSS1 Ear Force  ---> PS4




Consider thinking this way, might clear some things up for you:

DSP = Digital Signal Processor, does nice things for us such as EQ or headphone surround (example: Dolby Headphone, SBX Surround).
D.A.C. = Digital to Analogue Converter, digital goes in and analogue comes out, one direction only.
Amp = Analogue input, analogue output with the amp's current and voltage (this is what the headphones will "feel").

PS4 = a digital source
Mixamp = Astro Gaming's combination DSP, DAC, Channel Mixer (chat audio channel, L/R game channels), and amp. Only has an analogue output.
DSS Ear Force = Turtle Beach's combination DSP, DAC, and amp. Only has analogue output.

So in your example, Sound starts as a digital Dolby Digital Live 5.1/7.1 signal from the PS4 source, then goes out --> digital input of DSS, which routes the still digital surround signal --> the DSP inside the DSS, which outputs a stereo 2.0 digital signal --> the DSS's DAC, which makes an analogue 2.0 signal --> the DSS's amplification, which finally leaves the DSS as analogue --> Schiit Vali, which has a greater power supply and increases current and gives you another point to control voltage with the volume knob, analogue out --> DT990.

PS4______-->DSS1 --->Schiit Vali--->DT990_____________--->where yo head's at!
Digital_________-->Analogue____--->Sound Pressure Waves--->inner ears do their magical silica hair dance which your nerve endings feel and transmit to your brain.


As a side note, I think it's kinda funny that hearing loss is essentially a kind of hair-loss process... Balding ears, oh noes!


----------



## CannonCollector

evshrug said:


> Consider thinking this way, might clear some things up for you:
> 
> DSP = Digital Signal Processor, does nice things for us such as EQ or headphone surround (example: Dolby Headphone, SBX Surround).
> D.A.C. = Digital to Analogue Converter, digital goes in and analogue comes out, one direction only.
> ...


 
 Thanks for the info 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, the post you quoted was actually the one that I posted wrong (I write my posts in a notepad and then copy paste them into here, and for some random reason I copy pasted the wrong post) but the info is really helpful and I've gotta admit I was having trouble understanding all that amplification and digital to analog stuff but that helped me understand it much better. 
  
 Using is a DAC with the mixamp = not possible 
 Using an amp with the mixamp = possible
  
 Anyway the post I was actually suposed to put there was one about cables, because I'm in doubt of what cables I'll need to use for that setup and if I need some expensive cable for everything to work correctly


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/schiit-vali-headphone-amplifier/
> 
> Hey guys, my Schiit Vali review. I think the editor missed quite a few things...




A very fine review! I was also highly impressed with the value when bunnynamedfrank brought his Vali/Modi combo over... It doesn't have the stereotypical boosted bass and mids and wooly-smoothing-over-detail character which some people fear or seek from a "toob" amp, but rather like you said is an eye-opening experience that tube hybrids can sound as detailed and balanced as a solid-state amp, plus they just do something for the tonality which seems more organic/natural to the ears. We agreed that my tube amp improved on various aspects of the Vali (ringing, background noise, extension, and imaging), but also agreed that the Vali is an impressive value and very satisfying. Very good synergy with the four AKGs between us (two k712's, Q701, K612). To refer to another reviewer, I think it says something that Purrin finds the Vali to create a nice synergy with the HD800... More technical refinement can be expected from amps over $120, but the fluid flow of music powered by the Vali and the vali's slightly smoothed treble response are nice compliments to the HD800's dry and bright nature, whilst also powering the HD800's strengths in tonal accuracy, soundstage depth and width, etc. Not the best potential pairing but still a very good one with one of the highest-regarded Summit-Fi headphones out there.

Btw, perhaps you're working your editor too hard... LoL! I tease, but I still fully respect your opinions. You just may want to point out to your editor that one part where you refer to the Vali as a headphone. 2nd paragraph of The Good section.
<3


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah, sigh... If only finding a good synergy between headphones and DACs was just as easy as finding a good all-purpose amp


----------



## Evshrug

cannoncollector said:


> Thanks for the info  , the post you quoted was actually the one that I posted wrong (I write my posts in a notepad and then copy paste them into here, and for some random reason I copy pasted the wrong post) but the info is really helpful and I've gotta admit I was having trouble understanding all that amplification and digital to analog stuff but that helped me understand it much better.
> 
> Anyway the post I was actually suposed to put there was one about cables, because I'm in doubt of what cables I'll need to use for that setup and if I need some expensive cable for everything to work correctly




Right, being incorrect isn't "bad," especially when learning, so I just provided info so that you can understand why you can't directly put a DAC after a DAC.

Mostly you won't need specially expensive cables, just an optical cable (probably came with DSS) and a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable between the DSS and Vali. Amazon and Monoprice have great and inexpensive cables.

In case you haven't guessed, there's a reason I keep referring to the Vali. There are plenty of good, dedicated, detailed reviews about the pros and cons of the Vali if you'd like more info. Personally, ringing bugs be enough to prefer a more expensive tube amp, but I do agree that all audio lovers should hear a well-executed tube amp because it offers something slightly different from a Solid State amp. Your preference will eventually dictate your choices, of course.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, sigh... If only finding a good synergy between headphones and DACs was just as easy as finding a good all-purpose amp




Personally, I think any gear can be considered all-purpose so long as you accept the character as "good enough" while listening to it. Goes for amps, headphones, DACs, you name it.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> Personally, I think any gear can be considered all-purpose so long as you accept the character as *"good enough"* while listening to it. Goes for amps, headphones, DACs, you name it.


 
 Yeah, that's the problem 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Maybe I was lucky, but I managed to find an end-gamish amp in the 500$ range rather soon.
 With DACs I've been struggling to find the best balance between detailed/realistic and forgiving/smooth...
 I think I have the right headphones but I just can't get the synergy right...


----------



## Sam21

I am dying for the Uber version of Asgard 2 to come out....performance to price ratio is so huge...


----------



## glow9

lenroot77 said:


> The 598s will give a more balanced/ neutral sound than the dt990s. The dt990s signature is v shaped, it's a very "fun headset". While the dt990s sound stage is large, the 598s is larger. if u are looking for more in depth comparisons of the two I'd recommend googling it. While most topics won't be geared twords games, they will give u a better idea of the sound differences between the two.


 

 I've done that and I've found people saying the opposite as well so I'm sort of confused. Which would have a better precision sound quality closest to real life? I mean there have been times where I've had to look behind me or next to me because something in the background of what I was watching made me think something happened in my house. To me that is very impressive, and I would love more of that. Definitely something my Senn 201, Monsters, and even Sony MDR-V700 headphones (horribly uncomfortable as well). So I want them for just more than gaming.


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> I am dying for the Uber version of Asgard 2 to come out....performance to price ratio is so huge...


 
  
 Doesn't the "uber" upgrade refer to the 2nd gen USB interface?  Why would the Asgard 2 get that?


----------



## Sam21

stillhart said:


> Doesn't the "uber" upgrade refer to the 2nd gen USB interface?  Why would the Asgard 2 get that?


 
  
 Uber basically means more advanced, sophisticated circuitry and lower THD IMD. Magni 2 Uber is already out but I'm afraid it is not as powerful as the Asgard 2, on the other hand, Magni 2 Uber has less THD and IMD than the Asgard 2.


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> Uber basically means more advanced, sophisticated circuitry and lower THD IMD. Magni 2 Uber is already out but I'm afraid it is not as powerful as the Asgard 2, on the other hand, Magni 2 Uber has less THD and IMD than the Asgard 2.


 
  
 Yeah, I dunno.  But it seems silly for Schiit to make their $150 Magni 2 Uber have more power and better [buzzwords] than their $250 Asgard 2 doesn't it?  Why would anyone buy the Asgard in that case?


----------



## CannonCollector

evshrug said:


> Right, being incorrect isn't "bad," especially when learning, so I just provided info so that you can understand why you can't directly put a DAC after a DAC.
> 
> Mostly you won't need specially expensive cables, just an optical cable (probably came with DSS) and a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable between the DSS and Vali. Amazon and Monoprice have great and inexpensive cables.
> 
> In case you haven't guessed, there's a reason I keep referring to the Vali. There are plenty of good, dedicated, detailed reviews about the pros and cons of the Vali if you'd like more info. Personally, ringing bugs be enough to prefer a more expensive tube amp, but I do agree that all audio lovers should hear a well-executed tube amp because it offers something slightly different from a Solid State amp. Your preference will eventually dictate your choices, of course.


 
 Thanks already ordered some cables and now it's time to take a closer look at the vali, I heard the dt990 with a tube amp is pretty good so maybe I'll go with that one instead, gotta do some research


----------



## Sam21

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I dunno.  But it seems silly for Schiit to make their $150 Magni 2 Uber have more power and better [buzzwords] than their $250 Asgard 2 doesn't it?  Why would anyone buy the Asgard in that case?


 
 I guess the price difference is because of the potentiometer and other higher quality electronic components used...


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> I guess the price difference is because of the potentiometer and other higher quality electronic components used...


 
  
 One would assume that the only reason to pay extra for the higher quality components is that it improves your [buzzwords]?
  
 Anyways, not trying to belabor the point.  The Schiit guys are all active on the forums here; why not shoot them a PM and ask?


----------



## Sam21

I already did that, they do not want to talk about it....


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> I already did that, they do not want to talk about it....


 
  
 Meaning yes.  They've flat out denied a Vali 2 coming, so I don't think they have a problem saying no.  They just don't want to say yes and then have people stop buying the old one.  Interesting.


----------



## lenroot77

Hd600 for 255 or hd598 for150.... Can't deceide... Any thoughts?


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> Hd600 for 255 or hd598 for150.... Can't deceide... Any thoughts?


 
  
 My vote is 598 for gaming.  600 for general purpose use.  That said, I've never heard either.  :-D


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Asgard 2 runs in Class A. The Magni runs in Class AB. For many people, that's enough.

Also the Asgard 2 is more powerful at higher impedances than the Magni.


----------



## Change is Good

The Asgard 2 is a wonderful amp and a steal for its price. If I had a better DAC, at the time, I would have never sold it.


----------



## Change is Good

Len, I see no need for either if you already have the K7xx. Just my opinion...


----------



## vlenbo

evshrug said:


> Hey vlento,
> I think a review (or two) would be great! I actually don't recall either of those models being discussed (Mad certainly hasn't reviewed them), and though we generally prefer open headphones with particularly good soundstaging and imaging (strengths of open headphones), there will be people or times when closed headphones will be desired and more reviews would be a good thing.
> 
> The Xonar DX is a fine Soundcard with Dolby Headphone; total performance of a headphone is often heightened when you add a high-quality amp, however you can generally get a good feel for a headphone's character even using the amps built-in to soundcards. For example, the amount of bass/mids/treble generally feels the same, and so does the tone, and these are the most recognizable parts of a headphone. Adding an amp generally helps at the extremes of the frequency range, with tighter bass control and less brittle treble, and overall the headphone will seem to struggle less and be more strong/fit to reproduce the music/audio effortlessly, which also helps a smidgen with instrument separation/imaging and perceiving different depths of soundstage. When I first got my Q701 and I only had a mere FiiO E5 as an amp (more as a volume control at the end of an Xbox 360 RCA cable), I knew it was a bit better than my AD700, but, even having never had a better amp, I knew the tiny E5 was holding the Q701 back.
> ...


 
 Awesome, thank you for your dedicated and informative response. I have a cayin c5 amp that adds better soundstage and some imagery here and there. It drives headphones pretty well, and I feel like this will help the ath-msr7 and thinksound on1s. I agree, the open headphones (while I never tried one) should have the better imaging and soundstage capability, but i will not give up. I want a closed headphone that gives a higher standard of gaming competition by scoring a 9/10, which probably won't happen anyway.
  
 I will stay away from scores and I will provide the most accurate information I can from my hearing. Have a great day!


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> You sir, are a basshead. More bass than the 990 Pro? Jesus.
> 
> Forget looking at open headphones, because nothing catches up with the 990 Pro in terms of bass, not even the X1. Don't bother even trying to find any open headphones with bass that strong.
> 
> ...


 
 Okay so did some testing last night, turns out you are right. I turned up the bass on the creative settings finding a happy medium for use of both gaming and music with these headphones and software isn't as easy as it used to be. Music bass sounds great, gaming it sounds kinda artificial over the top like scrolling over the options in a game thud thud thud thud. So this was also confirmed when I had my gf on speakerphone on my iphone. Whenever she got loud with her high pitch voice it makes my ear hurt. Sort of like clanking dishes that really make my ear uncomfortable can get that ear drum hurty feeling. Like I want to hear a flute well, and glass breaking, but I don't want it to get sibilant. I found a song in the bass test thread where a girl is singing I believe it was this one can't dbl check right now but tell me if you find her quite sibilant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfrRBqscf7I her sibilant singing drives me nuts. I think I'm just really sensitive to it. With that in mind I would think I'm looking for something with excellent clear bass and mids, highs of course but definitely limited. If that helps? 
  
 Thanks everyone!


----------



## inseconds99

Hey guys I purchased the fidelio X1 to be my new gaming headphones during the Lightning sale last week. I think I might have an issue.

Like an idiot, I pulled the power plug out of my sound blaster x7 and didn't unplug my headphones before doin so because there was no sound coming out of my brand new X1's. As I unplugged the power I heard a loud pop in the headphone. I am concerned that I damaged my headphones as, maybe it is a placebo, but I feel like they sound poor, they have no real discernible bass and I need to crank the volume much more on this headphone then any of my other 30ohm headphone I own. I need to go to 70% volume before the x1's get loud. Other headphones I keep at 40% for the same amount of volume. Are these symptoms synonyms of a blown headphone? 

PS I tried the vmoda boom mic cable, my vmoda m100 cable and the cable that came in the box on not only my dac/amp but from my iPhone as well.


----------



## scanferr

What would you guys recommend for around 50-70€ for not only gaming but listening some music too and movies. Basically an all round for PC. I don't need an headset as I already have the Zalman clipon mic.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> Hey guys I purchased the fidelio X1 to be my new gaming headphones during the Lightning sale last week. I think I might have an issue.
> 
> Like an idiot, I pulled the power plug out of my sound blaster x7 and didn't unplug my headphones before doin so because there was no sound coming out of my brand new X1's. As I unplugged the power I heard a loud pop in the headphone. I am concerned that I damaged my headphones as, maybe it is a placebo, but I feel like they sound poor, they have no real discernible bass and I need to crank the volume much more on this headphone then any of my other 30ohm headphone I own. I need to go to 70% volume before the x1's get loud. Other headphones I keep at 40% for the same amount of volume. Are these symptoms synonyms of a blown headphone?
> 
> PS I tried the vmoda boom mic cable, my vmoda m100 cable and the cable that came in the box on not only my dac/amp but from my iPhone as well.




I'm sure we've all made this mistake before. While something like this can damage a driver, I would hope it wouldn't happen from just one mess up. It might just be placebo, so give it a rest and try them out, tomorrow.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I felt productive today, and have completed a long chunk of my X2 review. You all already know how I feel about it, but I figured I'd go more in depth.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey Conq,
  
 did you do some opamp rolling with your X7 yet?


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> Hey Conq,
> 
> did you do some opamp rolling with your X7 yet?


 
 Hi,
 Nope and no plan to. My X7 only serves as a DSP processor for now, feeding my external Gungnir/SA31SE rig. Since I find the sonic performance superior to the X7 DAC/amp, I see no need to try rolling. The op-amps aren't even utilized this way, I believe.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I felt productive today, and have completed a long chunk of my X2 review. You all already know how I feel about it, but I figured I'd go more in depth.


 
  





  
 I'm guessing smug. Or maybe enraged. There's a small possibility of jealous but I doubt that's the case.


----------



## CannonCollector

Man I've been asking questions after questions and yet I still feel so unsure about which cans to get... the dt 770 pro or the dt990 pro.. I mean I've been looking at the guide for days and the fact that the dt 770 have a lot of bass is really making my decision hard... I'm kind of a basshead honestly, I use my JVC SZ1000 for music only which are pure basshead cans, it's hard to get more bass than these honestly and for music like hip hop and dubstep these are really incredible... on the other hand the have kind of a veiled sound and I don't like to use them for gaming... I mean I like the fact that they vibrate everytime you shot and the sub bass is great when an explosion appears but that's it, in terms of quality for gaming... not the best
  
 That's why this decision is hard, on the guide it says the dt770 makes you feel like you're on a movie theater and have really great immersion which is what I'm looking for but the issue is they're probably not that good in terms of details and quality which is also something I'm looking for and are probably better found open cans, therefore I'm leaning towards the DT990... I don't mind the sharp treble since the SZ1000's have that sharp treble if EQ'd and I can deal with that no problem honestly but the thing I'm afraid is if the DT990 don't have enough bass to give me that immersion I'm looking for 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 btw the fact that they are open doesn't bother me at all since I play on a quiet environment and they are going to be exclusively for gaming but I guess only someone who has had them both to compare can help me :|


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> I'm sure we've all made this mistake before. While something like this can damage a driver, I would hope it wouldn't happen from just one mess up. It might just be placebo, so give it a rest and try them out, tomorrow.




I've began doing some more listening and comparing and from all the reviews I've read and watched the fidelio X1 is suppose to have some nice impactful bass and I am not experiencing this. I find the bass on my hd 700's when I had them much more punchy. My m50x's are way more punchy, Tyll review had compared the x1's to an open hewdphone basshead can. I don't find this to be true at all. Also bother my m50x's and the x1's have similar ohms yet I have to go much mouth higher on my volume knob to achieve the same volume on the 2 headphones. I can go all the way up to 100% and atill be able to listen to the x1 if I get to 50-60% volume on my m50x's I have to take them off for being too loud.

Does anyone have the 2 headphones I listed who can do a quick comparison on volume to see if the X1 is just way more power hungry or are mine blown? Or does volume not have anything to do with a headphone being blown?


----------



## Fegefeuer

conquerator2 said:


> Hi,
> Nope and no plan to. My X7 only serves as a DSP processor for now, feeding my external Gungnir/SA31SE rig. Since I find the sonic performance superior to the X7 DAC/amp, I see no need to try rolling. The op-amps aren't even utilized this way, I believe.


 
  
 ouch, that's a very expensive "mixamp-done-righter"


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I've began doing some more listening and comparing and from all the reviews I've read and watched the fidelio X1 is suppose to have some nice impactful bass and I am not experiencing this. I find the bass on my hd 700's when I had them much more punchy. My m50x's are way more punchy, Tyll review had compared the x1's to an open hewdphone basshead can. I don't find this to be true at all. Also bother my m50x's and the x1's have similar ohms yet I have to go much mouth higher on my volume knob to achieve the same volume on the 2 headphones. I can go all the way up to 100% and atill be able to listen to the x1 if I get to 50-60% volume on my m50x's I have to take them off for being too loud.
> 
> Does anyone have the 2 headphones I listed who can do a quick comparison on volume to see if the X1 is just way more power hungry or are mine blown? Or does volume not have anything to do with a headphone being blown?


 
  
 IMO, sounds like yours are blown.  Whether that was from before the accident or not, it's hard to say, but they're very bassy and they're not hard to drive.


----------



## Stillhart

cannoncollector said:


> Man I've been asking questions after questions and yet I still feel so unsure about which cans to get... the dt 770 pro or the dt990 pro.. I mean I've been looking at the guide for days and the fact that the dt 770 have a lot of bass is really making my decision hard... I'm kind of a basshead honestly, I use my JVC SZ1000 for music only which are pure basshead cans, it's hard to get more bass than these honestly and for music like hip hop and dubstep these are really incredible... on the other hand the have kind of a veiled sound and I don't like to use them for gaming... I mean I like the fact that they vibrate everytime you shot and the sub bass is great when an explosion appears but that's it, in terms of quality for gaming... not the best
> 
> That's why this decision is hard, on the guide it says the dt770 makes you feel like you're on a movie theater and have really great immersion which is what I'm looking for but the issue is they're probably not that good in terms of details and quality which is also something I'm looking for and are probably better found open cans, therefore I'm leaning towards the DT990... I don't mind the sharp treble since the SZ1000's have that sharp treble if EQ'd and I can deal with that no problem honestly but the thing I'm afraid is if the DT990 don't have enough bass to give me that immersion I'm looking for
> 
> ...


 
  
 The DT990 have PLENTY of bass.  I think you'll be fine with them.


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> I've began doing some more listening and comparing and from all the reviews I've read and watched the fidelio X1 is suppose to have some nice impactful bass and I am not experiencing this. I find the bass on my hd 700's when I had them much more punchy. My m50x's are way more punchy, Tyll review had compared the x1's to an open hewdphone basshead can. I don't find this to be true at all. Also bother my m50x's and the x1's have similar ohms yet I have to go much mouth higher on my volume knob to achieve the same volume on the 2 headphones. I can go all the way up to 100% and atill be able to listen to the x1 if I get to 50-60% volume on my m50x's I have to take them off for being too loud.
> 
> Does anyone have the 2 headphones I listed who can do a quick comparison on volume to see if the X1 is just way more power hungry or are mine blown? Or does volume not have anything to do with a headphone being blown?



Just to make sure it's not something obvious, is the headphone cable plugged all the way in to both headphone and amp?




fegefeuer said:


> ouch, that's a very expensive "mixamp-done-righter" :evil:



Yeah, very expensive if that's the end-use, however, besides the X7 I know of no other console-compatible DDL to headphone DSP out there that has a digital out.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> Just to make sure it's not something obvious, is the headphone cable plugged all the way in to both headphone and amp?
> Yeah, very expensive if that's the end-use, however, besides the X7 I know of no other console-compatible DDL to headphone DSP out there that has a digital out.


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> IMO, sounds like yours are blown.  Whether that was from before the accident or not, it's hard to say, but they're very bassy and they're not hard to drive.


 
 Amazon and there infinitely great Customer Service is sending me a replacement headphone and it will arrive tomorrow. This is the first time I have ever had to deal with a return or their customer service and in my mind if this headphone truly gets here tomorrow I would give them a 100% on a satisfaction survey.


----------



## CannonCollector

stillhart said:


> The DT990 have PLENTY of bass.  I think you'll be fine with them.


 
 Yeah I think I'm gonna go with these, after playing for a bit I realized that bass is important but good clarity in the details helps with the immersion too so DT990 it is


----------



## Sam21

I think the DT990 is an absolute killer, I prefer it to HE-400, HD598 and K702. The harsh treble and recessed mids doesn't bother me at all...I like listening to them.


----------



## lenroot77

sam21 said:


> I think the DT990 is an absolute killer, I prefer it to HE-400, HD598 and K702. The harsh treble and recessed mids doesn't bother me at all...I like listening to them.




I'm kinda regretting selling mine as of late!


----------



## bitcloudrzr

Looking to get a surround sound usb device to work with my PS4. Something along the lines of this: http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x-fi-surround-5-1-pro

I am using the HD598 with an in-line idevice mic cable plugged into the controller and it works great, but having it powered with the Sound Blaster and adding surround would be a nice touch, the problem is I've tried to use the Astro Mixamp Pro and it does not accept mic input with the in-line mic. If I used a splitter on the headphone cable that separates the sound and mic, would it work on the Sound Blaster device since it has seperate mic and sound ports?

Would a Modmic be a better choice for something like this? The main thing would be if the Sound Blaster's surround works with the PS4.


----------



## Change is Good

So, when are we doing another headphone tour?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> So, when are we doing another headphone tour?




Willing to send my 15G out, so people can see how fun and comfy it is, and how well it works for immersive gaming.


----------



## Roachpuffs

Hey Mad or anyone else that can answer this question. The review of the Ultrasone 900, is that an older model our is it the same as the s version? Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That review was a while back. The pads were black, (as opposed to the older silver velour) and the cable was straight. I haven't looked into the Pro 900 in awhile so I can't say what changes have been made since, if any.

My Amazon states I bought the Pro 900 on July, 2012.

There has yet to be a headphone with midbass as massive and quick as the Pro 900s. It's some truly impressive stuff. It's the other stuff that is questionable. And I'm just not a fan of S-Logic. Too finicky with ear placement. Not so much with the 15G though.


----------



## Sam21

"There has yet to be a headphone with midbass as massive and quick as the Pro 900s. It's some truly impressive stuff. It's the other stuff that is questionable. And I'm just not a fan of S-Logic. Too finicky with ear placement. Not so much with the 15G though."
  
 Try M-Audio Q40...Bass-Monster


----------



## HiCZoK

I still recommend adding Brainwavz HM5 to the test schedule.
 It's 100$. Closed, VERY comfortable memory foam pads. (available both leather and velour), 2 detachable lenght cables and amazing neutral/warmiiish sound quality with surprisingly open sound stage.
 I find it hard to ebat in that price range. Ofc its a huge headphone and might be too hot for summer (at least with default leather pads)


----------



## Roachpuffs

Thanks for the reply Mad! I was asking because they were labeled as pro 900 without the s logic so I wasn't sure if they are two different headphones. Can the s logic be turned on and off? Also, what do you mean by 15G? I currently have a pair of Beyer DT 990 600 ohm version and looking to possibly replace them for immersive single player gaming on the ps4. Since the pro 900 has gone up to $550 since your review, I am wondering if there is a better pair of cans in this price range that delivers some strong but well controlled bass. I'll be using my receiver to game in stereo and surround depending on the type of game. Your thoughts if you don't mind. Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

roachpuffs said:


> Thanks for the reply Mad! I was asking because they were labeled as pro 900 without the s logic so I wasn't sure if they are two different headphones. Can the s logic be turned on and off? Also, what do you mean by 15G? I currently have a pair of Beyer DT 990 600 ohm version and looking to possibly replace them for immersive single player gaming on the ps4. Since the pro 900 has gone up to $550 since your review, I am wondering if there is a better pair of cans in this price range that delivers some strong but well controlled bass. I'll be using my receiver to game in stereo and surround depending on the type of game. Your thoughts if you don't mind. Thanks!


 
  
 You might take a peek at the Deals thread.  Someone was saying something about the Pro 900 in the $400 range the other day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ultrasound 15g. It's on my guide. Cheap, but good headphone.

S-Logic is always on, it's not something u turn off. I believe it has to do with driver placement.


----------



## Roachpuffs

Thanks! Constant surround sound didn't seem appealing especially while listening to music. One crossed off the list. Thanks again!


----------



## Change is Good

I'll be down to borrow that 15g, Mad. Just let me know once you get things straightened out with your X2, first.


----------



## Xander Shade

So I went out of my depths and purchased the HyperX Cloud II before it was actually released well pre-ordered it. I will be getting it around the 19th. Part me was like great did I just purchase the less liked of the HyperX Cloud II or not?
  
 But as it turns out I have been reading some excellent reviews on this product and saying how the HyperX Cloud II should have been how the first one is currently. So they both sound great. The Cloud II does add the 7.1 surround in case you wondered what the difference was. According to the website I can not get 7.1 surround on the PS4 because of the PS4 firmware. But it is available for the PC.
  
 This is actually the reason why I am here.
  
 I have been going over a few pages and reading some of the entries and I do have a couple of questions.
  
 I am looking for a good amp/dac for my PS4. I saw that Mad mentioned the Fiio E12. But it appears its just a headphone amp. The Fiio E17 is both a dac/amp. Also would I be able to use this on my PC as well?
  
 The other question I have, is for a sound card. If I got a sound card, would it be actually better than say portable dac/amp for my computer? Would I hear my CD's with better sound separating digital to analogue. Making them sound better, more clear the way they weren't meant to be heard?


----------



## Baby Face Tony

mad lust envy said:


> Willing to send my 15G out, so people can see how fun and comfy it is, and how well it works for immersive gaming.


  

 I would like to try those 15G out, I was currently visiting on Amazon noticed that the "discontinued by manufacturer" notice was removed. Idk if they resumed with the 15G model but if they did I'd be willing to see how good they are not just from the words on your review on them 
  
 Just by looking at them they make you feel they are good. When you wrote your review on these, did you use an amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

S-Loigc isn't 'surround' on'. It's just a strategic driver placement that sort of enhances soundstage. Not really surround. I don't mind what it does, with the excepetio of placing things further away, and needing a good ear placement. By contrast, the X2 sounds the same rergardless of ear position. 



change is good said:


> I'll be down to borrow that 15g, Mad. Just let me know once you get things straightened out with your X2, first.




Send me your addy. Not sure why you'd want to though, short of curiosity. I checked my review, and I feel I hit verything I needed to say, so there shouldnt be any surprised. It's warm, bassy, good soundstage and positional cues. Like a poor man's on ear X1, but warmer.

Oh, they're sending me a replacement, and I have 20 days to return my old X2 once I get it. I don't need the 15G.

If any of the *regulars* (trust issues with people online otherwise) from the last loaners wants, pm me. I'll give Change first dibs of course. I think if you guys want a cheapish, comfortable beater, the 15G will impress you. Oh make sure you guys have an extension cable ready. I can't find the ridiculous one that came with the 15G, and since I use the Mixamp 5.8, I'm perfectly fine with the 3 footer cable.

I've used the 15G wit the E17 and Vali, and I believe the Asgard 2 as well.

You WILL want to amp these, due to Ultrasone mitigating it's volume by default. Not hard to drive in general, just low volume by design.


----------



## Roachpuffs

mad lust envy said:


> S-Loigc isn't 'surround' on'. It's just a strategic driver placement that sort of enhances soundstage. Not really surround. I don't mind what it does, with the excepetio of placing things further away, and needing a good ear placement. By contrast, the X2 sounds the same rergardless of ear position.
> Send me your addy. Not sure why you'd want to though, short of curiosity. I checked my review, and I feel I hit verything I needed to say, so there shouldnt be any surprised. It's warm, bassy, good soundstage and positional cues. Like a poor man's on ear X1, but warmer.
> 
> Oh, they're sending me a replacement, and I have 20 days to return my old X2 once I get it. I don't need the 15G.
> ...


 

 Ok.  Did some more reading on the Pro 900 and I completely understand what you are saying about it being where the drivers are located and not simulated surround.  Your review about them sounds very positive, but you mentioned that you are not a fan of their s logic technology.  What about the sound signature did you not like?  I am looking for a closed pair of gaming headphones predominantly for fun, not really interested in virtual surround.  I'll do some more research on those cans.  What is your opinion on the Fidelio X2s?  They are one of the headphones on my list.  Do you or anyone else have experience with the B&W P 7 or the Nad HP 50?


----------



## Roachpuffs

stillhart said:


> You might take a peek at the Deals thread.  Someone was saying something about the Pro 900 in the $400 range the other day.


 

 Thank You!


----------



## Change is Good

I'm just curious, Mad. I mean, you were the only one to volunteer to send your cans on tour, plus I wouldn't mind giving my impressions on them.

Good news regarding your X2 replacement. I know you are happy you didn't have to go without them.

Will I really need to double amp the 15g with my 5.8?


----------



## PixelSkills

mad lust envy said:


> 10%? Why even bother with virtual surround then. Some people don't understand that these things are mimicking a room, so of course it's gonna be quite different from plain. Horrible, two dimensional stereo.
> 
> I'll take my crappy virtual surround and dominate, while you guys take a moment too long figuring out if I'm in front or behind you.
> 
> ...


 
 I have done exactly that, I had the Astro Mixamp Pro for months and did not compare. I then went back to "horrible two dimensional stereo" and thought stereo sounded much much better! Not only that is I could tell no difference in audio cues. This was me using Destiny, BF4, and a tiny bit of Dragon Age Inquisition. Stereo signals have audio cues also to tell whether an enemy is in front or behind you and your brain can tell the difference rather easily. The only thing I notice is when using Dolby Headphone it does definitely make things sound farther in the distance because it lowers the volume of certain sounds. Its amazing how defensive you get when someone questions your beloved dolby headphone..


----------



## PacoTaco

pixelskills said:


> I have done exactly that, I had the Astro Mixamp Pro for months and did not compare. I then went back to "horrible two dimensional stereo" and thought stereo sounded much much better! Not only that is I could tell no difference in audio cues. This was me using Destiny, BF4, and a tiny bit of Dragon Age Inquisition. Stereo signals have audio cues also to tell whether an enemy is in front or behind you and your brain can tell the difference rather easily. The only thing I notice is when using Dolby Headphone it does definitely make things sound farther in the distance because it lowers the volume of certain sounds. Its amazing how defensive you get when someone questions your beloved dolby headphone..


 
 I have two questions for you my good man.
  
 A) What are your headphones?
  
 B) Do you have the mixamp on "Core" mode? This is the only mode where things are presented like they're suppose to be. You might also not have your console set to output dolby 5.1. Stereo only sounds better audio-wise because there is no extra processing there, but the point of the Dolby headphone system is to downscale the 5.1 to two speakers that have 3D  space (which it does well.) Granted, Dolby is specifically programmed for the most common denominator, and you might not be able to tell the difference because your brain isn't wired too. I can barely tell myself, but I can with Creative's surround sound processing and DDS2's processing.


----------



## PixelSkills

pacotaco said:


> I have two questions for you my good man.
> 
> A) What are your headphones?
> 
> B) Do you have the mixamp on "Core" mode? This is the only mode where things are presented like they're suppose to be. You might also not have your console set to output dolby 5.1. Stereo only sounds better audio-wise because there is no extra processing there, but the point of the Dolby headphone system is to downscale the 5.1 to two speakers that have 3D  space (which it does well.) Granted, Dolby is specifically programmed for the most common denominator, and you might not be able to tell the difference because your brain isn't wired too. I can barely tell myself, but I can with Creative's surround sound processing and DDS2's processing.


 
 I was using the Sennheiser G4me One, while using core/pro mode on mixamp and the PS4 was set to Dolby. By DDs2 do you mean the turtle beach DSS2? It may be just that Dolby Headphone does not work for me, I used the Turtle Beach Elite 800 which has the new DTS Headphone X and I could def tell positional cues alot better then Dolby Headphone. The problem with the Elite 800 was it was so uncomfortable to use that I could only use them for about 20 minutes and also the reverb was insane!


----------



## Voraxis

Hi I'm looking to buy the Sennheiser 598's, the only thing I'm a little worried about is my microphone (Samson meteor, standing on my desk) picking up sounds from the game / voices in skype and then being heard by the people I am on skype with, anyone has some experience with this? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Stillhart

voraxis said:


> Hi I'm looking to buy the Sennheiser 598's, the only thing I'm a little worried about is my microphone (Samson meteor, standing on my desk) picking up sounds from the game / voices in skype and then being heard by the people I am on skype with, anyone has some experience with this?
> 
> Thanks!


 
@Evshrug and @AxelCloris both use Blue microphones when gaming with open headphones and I've never heard any of the sound leakage.  It's nothing to worry about.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I'm just curious, Mad. I mean, you were the only one to volunteer to send your cans on tour, plus I wouldn't mind giving my impressions on them.
> 
> Good news regarding your X2 replacement. I know you are happy you didn't have to go without them.
> 
> Will I really need to double amp the 15g with my 5.8?




Nah, not unless you plan on using a mic. The 15g is insensitive but within the bounds of the Mixamp, IIRC. I wouldn't doubt needing an amp on lowered volume games though. I dunno.

For music though, i have my phone maxed out and the volume is just moderate.

Pm me your info. I tend to delete my messages. I'll see about sending it out tomorrow or so.


----------



## Roachpuffs

Hey All,
  
 Since this thread is constantly moving, I am going to post this question again with some added headphones from my earlier post.  I currently have a pair of DT 990s and I am considering getting a new pair of cans.  I do not play FPS games, so I am only interested in being fully immersed with some "fun" headphones.  A "perfect" headphone would be one with generous and tight bass that will not interfere with the ambient sounds in game.  Closed back only please.  As a side note, I do enjoy multiple genres of music while leaning towards hip hop, house, drums and bass, etc.  I will be using these about 90% of the time to game and 10% music.
  
 I will be gaming on my PS4 and PC.  I have an Asus Phoebus sound card for my PC and I have decided to use my Denon receiver to game with my PS4.  I have tried the route of the mixamp, but I find that I personally enjoy gaming in stereo.  With that said, I am looking for owners of the following headphones to share their opinions with me. 
  
 Nad Visio HP 50
 Vmoda M100
 B & W P7
 Ultrasone Pro 900
  
 Any recommendations are more then welcome 
  
 I am not completely sure that I want to part with my DT 990s, but if I can find something with more impact on the bass end and have a decent soundstage, then I may have to do a comparison one of these days.  I tried my brother's M50's and they are much better for music then gaming, although the bass was pretty enjoyable.  Also, does anyone know if I use a splitter into my receiver's headphone jack to incorporate the vmoda boom mic with headphones, will work with the PS4?
  
 Thank you in advance for your time and knowledge!


----------



## CannonCollector

roachpuffs said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Since this thread is constantly moving, I am going to post this question again with some added headphones from my earlier post.  I currently have a pair of DT 990s and I am considering getting a new pair of cans.  I do not play FPS games, so I am only interested in being fully immersed with some "fun" headphones.  A "perfect" headphone would be one with generous and tight bass that will not interfere with the ambient sounds in game.  Closed back only please.  As a side note, I do enjoy multiple genres of music while leaning towards hip hop, house, drums and bass, etc.  I will be using these about 90% of the time to game and 10% music.
> 
> ...


 
 Best bet are the ultrasone pro 900, they are kinda like the dt990 but more focused bass, haven't had much experience with them but they seem like what you're looking for
  
 just two questions, which dt do you have? the classic 990's or the pro's? And are the dt990 (the ones you have) not that good for immersive gaming? Just asking cause I'm almost pulling the trigger on the dt990 pro and than I saw your post which is a similar situation to mine:  not much of a fps player looking for immersive gaming (and some strong bass aswell)... just wondering cause some people say dt990's have amazing bass for open cans while some say they don't have enough...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, not unless you plan on using a mic. The 15g is insensitive but within the bounds of the Mixamp, IIRC. I wouldn't doubt needing an amp on lowered volume games though. I dunno.
> 
> For music though, i have my phone maxed out and the volume is just moderate.
> 
> Pm me your info. I tend to delete my messages. I'll see about sending it out tomorrow or so.


 
  
 Next week will be better, for me, so I'll PM you my info this weekend as a reminder.
  
 Do you want me to send you any of mine while I have the 15g?


----------



## Change is Good

roachpuffs said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Since this thread is constantly moving, I am going to post this question again with some added headphones from my earlier post.  I currently have a pair of DT 990s and I am considering getting a new pair of cans.  I do not play FPS games, so I am only interested in being fully immersed with some "fun" headphones.  A "perfect" headphone would be one with generous and tight bass that will not interfere with the ambient sounds in game.  Closed back only please.  As a side note, I do enjoy multiple genres of music while leaning towards hip hop, house, drums and bass, etc.  I will be using these about 90% of the time to game and 10% music.
> 
> ...




What is you're budget?


----------



## Roachpuffs

change is good said:


> What is you're budget?


 

 Around $400


----------



## Roachpuffs

cannoncollector said:


> Best bet are the ultrasone pro 900, they are kinda like the dt990 but more focused bass, haven't had much experience with them but they seem like what you're looking for
> 
> just two questions, which dt do you have? the classic 990's or the pro's? And are the dt990 (the ones you have) not that good for immersive gaming? Just asking cause I'm almost pulling the trigger on the dt990 pro and than I saw your post which is a similar situation to mine:  not much of a fps player looking for immersive gaming (and some strong bass aswell)... just wondering cause some people say dt990's have amazing bass for open cans while some say they don't have enough...


 

 I have the Premium 600 ohm version.  I have had these for over two years and have truly enjoyed them from day one.  For open headphones, they do have unusually impressive bass, although that is based on what others have said over and over again.  This was my introduction into the world of audiophile headphones, so I don't have any experience with other headphones.  They are definitely immersive while gaming, but I recently heard my brother's M50s and the bass hits harder then the DT 990s.  The soundstage is perfect IMO.  Positional awareness is extremely good and the bass really is present and impactful, but after hearing the M50s, I want a little more...BOOM!  It's being satisfied with what you have until you come across something else.  I've also wanted a pair of closed cans for awhile now and I'm extremely curious about what else is out there. 
  
 As I saidbefore, I am not even sure if I want to move on to another pair at this point.  I think that says something about these headphones too.  I was going to sell these in order to get into something else, but I may just keep them and add another to the family  
  
 The Ultrasone Pro 900s do seem like a really fun headphone, so those are the number 1 on my want list so far.  Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## Change is Good

roachpuffs said:


> Around $400




Try the SRH1540. Some authorized sellers have been known to accept $400 best offers in eBay.


----------



## Roachpuffs

change is good said:


> Try the SRH1540. Some authorized sellers have been known to accept $400 best offers in eBay.


 

 Do or have you owned these?  If so, can you please tell me a little about their sound signature.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

I have owned them for over a year. They have a slightly u-shaped sound signature, one that I am postitve you will like based on what you are looking for.

Look them up, you will enjoy what you read


----------



## CannonCollector

roachpuffs said:


> I have the Premium 600 ohm version.  I have had these for over two years and have truly enjoyed them from day one.  For open headphones, they do have unusually impressive bass, although that is based on what others have said over and over again.  This was my introduction into the world of audiophile headphones, so I don't have any experience with other headphones.  They are definitely immersive while gaming, but I recently heard my brother's M50s and the bass hits harder then the DT 990s.  The soundstage is perfect IMO.  Positional awareness is extremely good and the bass really is present and impactful, but after hearing the M50s, I want a little more...BOOM!  It's being satisfied with what you have until you come across something else.  I've also wanted a pair of closed cans for awhile now and I'm extremely curious about what else is out there.
> 
> As I saidbefore, I am not even sure if I want to move on to another pair at this point.  I think that says something about these headphones too.  I was going to sell these in order to get into something else, but I may just keep them and add another to the family
> 
> The Ultrasone Pro 900s do seem like a really fun headphone, so those are the number 1 on my want list so far.  Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.


 
 I see, thanks for the info this is what I wanted to know and I might go with the 990's after all 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Good luck on your purchase


----------



## PacoTaco

roachpuffs said:


> I have the Premium 600 ohm version.  I have had these for over two years and have truly enjoyed them from day one.  For open headphones, they do have unusually impressive bass, although that is based on what others have said over and over again.  This was my introduction into the world of audiophile headphones, so I don't have any experience with other headphones.  They are definitely immersive while gaming, but I recently heard my brother's M50s and the bass hits harder then the DT 990s.  The soundstage is perfect IMO.  Positional awareness is extremely good and the bass really is present and impactful, but after hearing the M50s, I want a little more...BOOM!  It's being satisfied with what you have until you come across something else.  I've also wanted a pair of closed cans for awhile now and I'm extremely curious about what else is out there.
> 
> As I saidbefore, I am not even sure if I want to move on to another pair at this point.  I think that says something about these headphones too.  I was going to sell these in order to get into something else, but I may just keep them and add another to the family
> 
> The Ultrasone Pro 900s do seem like a really fun headphone, so those are the number 1 on my want list so far.  Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.


 
 You probably already have an amp, correct? Do yourself a favor and try a planar like the MrSpeaker's Mad Dog or HifiMan HE400i. Those are both phenominal for immersion.
  
 Or, if you feel like saving up 250$, I'm almost positive someone is selling a LCD 2.2 for that cheap.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Pro 900 is essentially like a closed DT990. The bass WILL impress you. It's simply something that has to be heard. That being said, it's very mid bass focused. Lower bass isn't anything to write home about, though neither is low bass on the 990, so you're used to that. That mid bass though, holy crap.

And yes, if you want that M50 type boom, you do need to go with a closed headphone, or something like the older gen LCD2s.

The DT770 pro 80 is a very good, cost effective bass monster (lower bass). That has more boom than the M50 by a good stretch. You have to decide if you want that gut wrenching rumble, or if you want impact. Low bass = rumble, mid bass = impact, which stuff like the 990 is already good with.


----------



## Baby Face Tony

change is good said:


> Next week will be better, for me, so I'll PM you my info this weekend as a reminder.
> 
> Do you want me to send you any of mine while I have the 15g?


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Nah, not unless you plan on using a mic. The 15g is insensitive but within the bounds of the Mixamp, IIRC. I wouldn't doubt needing an amp on lowered volume games though. I dunno.
> 
> For music though, i have my phone maxed out and the volume is just moderate.
> 
> Pm me your info. I tend to delete my messages. I'll see about sending it out tomorrow or so.


 
  
 Well if he wants to try them out later, I'd be happy to give them a try meanwhile. I want to see what volume you consider moderate, as I do wish to use them on a phone and on a PC. I'm assuming the lower volume design is their "Safer Hearing" feature which they cleverly call it that and also add "while still producing same perceived loudness" not to scare buyers away.
  
 I'd like the opportunity to try these Ultrasone 15G's out, these would be the first pair of highly recommended headphones I would try on.


----------



## Roachpuffs

change is good said:


> I have owned them for over a year. They have a slightly u-shaped sound signature, one that I am postitve you will like based on what you are looking for.
> 
> Look them up, you will enjoy what you read




Thank you! More research


----------



## Roachpuffs

cannoncollector said:


> I see, thanks for the info this is what I wanted to know and I might go with the 990's after all   Good luck on your purchase




No problem. Glad I could help. I think you will be very pleased.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> S-Loigc isn't 'surround' on'. It's just a strategic driver placement that sort of enhances soundstage. Not really surround. I don't mind what it does, with the excepetio of placing things further away, and needing a good ear placement. By contrast, the X2 sounds the same rergardless of ear position.
> Send me your addy. Not sure why you'd want to though, short of curiosity. I checked my review, and I feel I hit verything I needed to say, so there shouldnt be any surprised. It's warm, bassy, good soundstage and positional cues. Like a poor man's on ear X1, but warmer.
> 
> Oh, they're sending me a replacement, and I have 20 days to return my old X2 once I get it. I don't need the 15G.
> ...




^Read bold print, please.




baby face tony said:


> Well if he wants to try them out later, I'd be happy to give them a try meanwhile. I want to see what volume you consider moderate, as I do wish to use them on a phone and on a PC. I'm assuming the lower volume design is their "Safer Hearing" feature which they cleverly call it that and also add "while still producing same perceived loudness" not to scare buyers away.
> 
> I'd like the opportunity to try these Ultrasone 15G's out, these would be the first pair of highly recommended headphones I would try on.


----------



## Roachpuffs

pacotaco said:


> You probably already have an amp, correct? Do yourself a favor and try a planar like the MrSpeaker's Mad Dog or HifiMan HE400i. Those are both phenominal for immersion.
> 
> Or, if you feel like saving up 250$, I'm almost positive someone is selling a LCD 2.2 for that cheap.




Thanks for the recommendations. I have an Asus sound card for my pc but for my ps4 I will be hooking up directly to my Denon receiver. I am actually in the process of returning a magni/modi uber 2 stack. I was using it for my ps4 setup with my 990s but the volume was good but the amp was almost maxed out and on the hi gain setting. When using the 990s plugged into my receiver I could push them much further and the sound quality was not that much different. I didn't see $300 worth of improved sound. Not even close.

Is there a big difference between the HE 400 and HE 400i? I was looking into the HE 400s awhile back but when I demoed them the bass was not impressive. Although I hear that swapping out the velour pads makes a huge difference. I look forward to reading up on your other recommendations.


----------



## PacoTaco

roachpuffs said:


> Thanks for the recommendations. I have an Asus sound card for my pc but for my ps4 I will be hooking up directly to my Denon receiver. I am actually in the process of returning a magni/modi uber 2 stack. I was using it for my ps4 setup with my 990s but the volume was good but the amp was almost maxed out and on the hi gain setting. When using the 990s plugged into my receiver I could push them much further and the sound quality was not that much different. I didn't see $300 worth of improved sound. Not even close.
> 
> Is there a big difference between the HE 400 and HE 400i? I was looking into the HE 400s awhile back but when I demoed them the bass was not impressive. Although I hear that swapping out the velour pads makes a huge difference. I look forward to reading up on your other recommendations.


 
 If you get the HE400 or any other planar in the future, you may want to consider keeping the schiit stack, as your soundcard doesn't really give much headroom for planars.
  
 Before I go into the differences (I have owned both at once before,) the bass on the HE400 is actually incredibly impressive for its price point. It can go very very low with pretty good quantity. If you've come from a DT990, it may make you think "eh, this isn't that great," but what you're use to is more mid-bass. The HE400 provides sub-bass AND mid-bass in spades...but not as much mid-bass (which most people refer to as quantity) as the DT990 or other dynamic drivers. 
  
 The main difference between the two is the fact that the HE400 has a fun (almost V) signature, while the HE400i has a more...linear to dark sound signature. The HE400i has a little more mid-bass and a punchier bass all around, but it isn't the same quality subbass as the HE400. However, the i makes up for it by making a more intimate midrange that is incredibly linear (from the tip of the sub-bass to the ends of the mids) until it hits pretty smooth, but dark, high end. The HE400, on the otherhand, is very....sibilant. The HE400i is also a lot more comfortable, has a better soundstage pre-grill mod, and just looks better in general.
  
 You have to get use to the kind of bass the HifiMan's present, but once you do, you'll start to notice things feel more cinematic as opposed to sounding cinematic, if that makes any sense. You're trading a lot of substance for the actual clarity of that substance. You'll be able to tell what kind of sound the explosion is actually making, and feel it, as opposed to just hearing a thick mass of boom. It's really more of the "realistic" kind of immersion that (as far as I can tell anyway...Might be a coincidental pattern) MLE experiences in the headphones he rates pretty high up there in fun. 
  
 If you want to get down to it, there's very few headphones until the Audeze LCD 2.2 and TH600 that outdo the HE400 in overall bass quality. The HE400i is a close second to it in this price-range, but it makes up for it by having a thicker mid-range that makes you feel like you're in that world.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> Dear Customer,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Creative.
> 
> ...




So basically, the Limited Edition X7 is really only worth it if you MUST have 1ohm output impedance vs 2.2ohm. Since 2.2ohm is good for any headphone that isn't an IEM, i don't see any reason to get the LE X7 unless you're certain you want the extra power for passive speakers, and if you really want the best output for IEMs. And even so, you can always buy the power adapter for the standard X7 if you ever get passive speakers down the line.

So if the X7 goes down in price again, I recommend just getting the regular.

I prefer not overdamping my headphones, which I feel will make the LE sound thinner than the standard, if subtly so, so 2.2ohm is more ideal to me.

Quite disappointing that some damn engineers can't get the power output specs. Ridiculous.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> So basically, the Limited Edition X7 is really only worth it if you MUST have 1ohm output impedance vs 2.2ohm. Since 2.2ohm is good for any headphone that isn't an IEM, i don't see any reason to get the LE X7 unless you're certain you want the extra power for passive speakers, and if you really want the best output for IEMs.
> 
> So if the X7 goes down in price again, I recommend just getting the regular.
> 
> I prefer not overdamping my headphones, which I feel will make the LE sound thinner than the standard, if subtly so, so 2.2ohm is more ideal to me.


 
 Yah, the X7 can power anything short of giving planars headroom and the most demanding dynamics (like the HD800.) With low output impedance already and the lack of increased power, there really isn't reason to get the LE X7.
  
 That said, the bass on my HE560's were a tad thinner their the amp than I would have liked, but that's easily solved with an external amp.
  
 I debated it for awhile, but reached the same conclusion you did when I bought the normal one. Anyone reading this should note that they need to buy directly from creative as Amazon sent me one that was already opened and cords were missing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, FWIR, the specs for the internals wasn't all that impressive power-wise, particularly when powering 600ohm cans (less power than the E9K which was already lacking headroom for 600ohms). Paired up with a very low ouput impedance, won't do it's musicality any favors, I'm assuming.

If I was making an amp, my output impedance would be no less than 3ohms. 3 x 8 = 24 (which would be like Denon D7000 type impedance). Or I'd just be like the Garage amps with manual switch for different output impedances. 3, 37, 75. For good damping factors for 24ohm, 300ohm, and 600ohm.


----------



## PacoTaco

I honestly just bought it for the DAC/DSP anyway. A great DAC that trades some of the performance of a Schiit Bifrost for a lot more functionality and features for a hundred and fifty dollars less? Hell yah. Besides, you can't really tell the difference between two DACs of similar performance (or at all in most cases) until you A) hit really expensive DACs that either use tubes or filters or B) really expensive and sensitive headphones.


----------



## malla1ml

pacotaco said:


> I honestly just bought it for the DAC/DSP anyway. A great DAC that trades some of the performance of a Schiit Bifrost for a lot more functionality and features for a hundred and fifty dollars less? Hell yah. Besides, you can't really tell the difference between two DACs of similar performance (or at all in most cases) until you A) hit really expensive DACs that either use tubes or filters or B) really expensive and sensitive headphones.


 
  
 +1 I've had the X7 since it came out and I thought it sounded great, with no issues. I tried running the output to my Magi 2 uber and just didn't hear much of a difference, so I stuck with what was easier. I also own the original Mixamp and also have the TB DSS1 which I've been using for years.  However, I received my Woo Audio WA7 + WA7tp from Massdrop and gamed all weekend long with the PS4 -> X7 (optical) -> WA7 (RCA) and man it sounded good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Where do you hear that it has some of the performance of the bifrost? That sounds implausible. Though DACs don't sound all too diffferent from one another anyways. Judging by cost, I'd believe it more if the DAC was Modi level, not Bifrost.


----------



## PacoTaco

Just something cool to try, but you can also set the X7 to do the processing through optical out and have it go into the DAC of the WA7.


----------



## malla1ml

Interesting thought but I didn't get the WA7d with optical in.  For the extra money it cost, I decided to spend the money elsewhere.  But I finally caught up on Tomb Raider and it sounded magnificent with the X7 + WA7/WA7tp.  The X7 is a great product compared to what I've used over the years.  My mixamp just didn't have enough power to give my Beyer DT880's the low end I was looking for to be fully immersed.


----------



## Roachpuffs

pacotaco said:


> If you get the HE400 or any other planar in the future, you may want to consider keeping the schiit stack, as your soundcard doesn't really give much headroom for planars.
> 
> Before I go into the differences (I have owned both at once before,) the bass on the HE400 is actually incredibly impressive for its price point. It can go very very low with pretty good quantity. If you've come from a DT990, it may make you think "eh, this isn't that great," but what you're use to is more mid-bass. The HE400 provides sub-bass AND mid-bass in spades...but not as much mid-bass (which most people refer to as quantity) as the DT990 or other dynamic drivers.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the detailed explanation. What you said makes complete sense. Your last statement about, " being in that world," sums up the experience I am looking for. Based on your opinion, it sounds like the HE 400i would be the better choice for what I am looking for in my gaming? The HE400 is not aesthetically pleasing but, damn, the HE 400i is sexy as hell! It seems like HifiMan really put some thought into upgrading the HE 400. 

As far as my sound card...it has no problems driving my Dt990 (600 ohm) headphones leaving plenty of headroom. When I want to crank it up, I only go about 75%. And I can't listen too long at that level either. Based on this, do you think the HE 400i is going to need more power? When I hooked up the Schiit stack, the volume was identical to my sound card. Also, do you think an amp that will add a little warmth be a good match for them? Thanks again.


----------



## PacoTaco

Ah, I was actually mistaken. I was thinking it was using the same chip as the Conductor SL uses, but I was one number off. That one is actually filtered to be warm, this one isn't. So, yah, you're right. It is more like modi-level, not that it's a bad thing. Until you get to DACs with filters, tubes, or the really expensive ones that delve outside the realm of normal delta-sigma-whatevers, there's almost 0 difference. I could tell the difference between my soundblaster and the Bifrost, but the modi and Bifrost were 99% the same, and that was only on the more revealing headphones (like the HE560 as opposed to my HE400.)


----------



## PacoTaco

roachpuffs said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. What you said makes complete sense. Your last statement about, " being in that world," sums up the experience I am looking for. Based on your opinion, it sounds like the HE 400i would be the better choice for what I am looking for in my gaming? The HE400 is not aesthetically pleasing but, damn, the HE 400i is sexy as hell! It seems like HifiMan really put some thought into upgrading the HE 400.
> 
> As far as my sound card...it has no problems driving my Dt990 (600 ohm) headphones leaving plenty of headroom. When I want to crank it up, I only go about 75%. And I can't listen too long at that level either. Based on this, do you think the HE 400i is going to need more power? When I hooked up the Schiit stack, the volume was identical to my sound card. Also, do you think an amp that will add a little warmth be a good match for them? Thanks again.


 
 The DT990 is incredibly easy to drive, even at the 600 ohm version. It only ever peaks at 750 ohms at a 96 sensitivity. Keep in mind that getting to a loud volume and driving are two different things and one can be more subjective than the other at times. If you don't supply enough current, for example, you can get loud enough but have clipping.
  
 A planar like the HE400i is horribly inefficient with what you give it. It needs more current and headroom than the soundblaster gives out to sound its best (but again, its up to you, as it won't ruin the headphone's sound or anything.) The common theory is that planars do better, especially in the soundstage and bass areas, with more headroom. I've noticed this with my HE400 (it sounded better on the Asgard 2 than the magni, but it kinda capped out there and didn't sound any better on the Burson.)
  
 Again, it can be entirely subjective as nobody has actually done any tests on this, nor really backed it up with any proof. That said, the Magni 2 is a great amp that will last you a long time, you may as well keep that and just return the Modi. The modi just helps if you have a particularly noisy case (like mine) and you need to clean that up a bit.


----------



## Roachpuffs

pacotaco said:


> The DT990 is incredibly easy to drive, even at the 600 ohm version. It only ever peaks at 750 ohms at a 96 sensitivity. Keep in mind that getting to a loud volume and driving are two different things and one can be more subjective than the other at times. If you don't supply enough current, for example, you can get loud enough but have clipping.
> 
> A planar like the HE400i is horribly inefficient with what you give it. It needs more current and headroom than the soundblaster gives out to sound its best (but again, its up to you, as it won't ruin the headphone's sound or anything.) The common theory is that planars do better, especially in the soundstage and bass areas, with more headroom. I've noticed this with my HE400 (it sounded better on the Asgard 2 than the magni, but it kinda capped out there and didn't sound any better on the Burson.)
> 
> Again, it can be entirely subjective as nobody has actually done any tests on this, nor really backed it up with any proof. That said, the Magni 2 is a great amp that will last you a long time, you may as well keep that and just return the Modi. The modi just helps if you have a particularly noisy case (like mine) and you need to clean that up a bit.




When I was using the stack with my ps4 I pretty much had the magni almost at max level to get a satisfying volume level. When hooked up to my pc, listening to music, the volume was much louder. Do you or anyone else know why the ps4 as a source had this type of effect on the lack of volume? Because of this, I was actually contemplating whether I should get the Asgard 2. Maybe I should reconsider. Send the magni back and get the Asgard 2.


----------



## PacoTaco

roachpuffs said:


> When I was using the stack with my ps4 I pretty much had the magni almost at max level to get a satisfying volume level. When hooked up to my pc, listening to music, the volume was much louder. Do you or anyone else know why the ps4 as a source had this type of effect on the lack of volume? Because of this, I was actually contemplating whether I should get the Asgard 2. Maybe I should reconsider. Send the magni back and get the Asgard 2.




the Asgard 2 is a great amp that will last you a long time. As for the ps4 problem, I'm not sure what the quality of the signal the ps4 is sending is, but I'm thinking the sampling rate might be smaller than what is being sent from the PC. I also believe it probably has something to do with how high the volume is when the pc sends it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're wanting more bass than the 990, i don't see how either 400 or 400i will please you. Yes, they go deeper, but they are still well balanced with the most of the sound. You would need something with some actual bass emphasis to give you that feeling. But oh well.


----------



## Roachpuffs

mad lust envy said:


> If you're wanting more bass than the 990, i don't see how either 400 or 400i will please you. Yes, they go deeper, but they are still well balanced with the most of the sound. You would need something with some actual bass emphasis to give you that feeling. But oh well.




I am by no means done with my search on my next pair of headphones. Actually, I am just getting warmed up. I greatly appreciate all of the information everyone has shared with me. I have learned a lot so far and appreciate all of the Nuggets you folks gave me. The pro 900s are still at the top of my list. I would like to hear from anyone withe some experience with the Nad Visio HP 50 and Vmoda 100. I did read some interesting things about the share 1540s too and would like to hear more about them from people as well.

As far as the HE 400/400i, I share the same concerns with them as you do Mad. Although Paco Taco did a fantastic job sharing his experience and vast knowledge, my issue is that they are open back.

Will the sub bass of the DT 770s overpower the mid bass as well as the ambient sound of games?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 770 isnt that mid bass heavy. Mostly sub bass. However, yes, it can get muffled sounding at times.

Maybe score a used TH600?


----------



## Sam21

I am gonna order the MA900, hear good things about it...


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> The 770 isnt that mid bass heavy. Mostly sub bass. However, yes, it can get muffled sounding at times.
> 
> Maybe score a used TH600?


 
  
  


roachpuffs said:


> I am by no means done with my search on my next pair of headphones. Actually, I am just getting warmed up. I greatly appreciate all of the information everyone has shared with me. I have learned a lot so far and appreciate all of the Nuggets you folks gave me. The pro 900s are still at the top of my list. I would like to hear from anyone withe some experience with the Nad Visio HP 50 and Vmoda 100. I did read some interesting things about the share 1540s too and would like to hear more about them from people as well.
> 
> As far as the HE 400/400i, I share the same concerns with them as you do Mad. Although Paco Taco did a fantastic job sharing his experience and vast knowledge, my issue is that they are open back.
> 
> Will the sub bass of the DT 770s overpower the mid bass as well as the ambient sound of games?


 
  
 To balance out the TH600 opinion (as the treble is pretty bright and the mids are kinda blah making it sound boring to me personally, but maybe not to you,) the ZMF Vibro apparently has a close sound to the HE400i and it's closed. It doesn't have the soundstage of the TH600, but it apparently has just as much mid-bass and a tiny bit more subbass with a more forward amount of mids. This is also just my personal preference, but it is darker and smoother in the highs than the TH600. The TH600, from what I experienced, leaked about as much sound as my DT880 and T1, and that takes some effort. Again, this is just a balancing opinion, as the TH600 is a great headphone if you find it used, but I personally hated it for immersion because it sounded so thin. I've been told it sounds almost like the D7000 should, but I've never gotten that feeling from it.
  
 A used Vibro (you'd find it in the headphone sales section of head-fi most likely) is around the same price as a TH600 used from Amazon (at least when I bought it...it was about 400$.) It really depends on what you want: something with higher treble, a V-shaped signature (and it isn't surpassed by any headphone V-shaped sig wise until you hit the TH900) and probably more accurate with positional cues, or something with a thicker, lusher sound that brings you closer to what you're hearing.
  
 I've personally always preferred thicker mids and deep, linear bass without the distracting or piercing treble, while MLE, from what I understand (you can correct me if you like as I don't want to make an assumption and seem like an ass,) prefers brighter headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> I've personally always preferred thicker mids and deep, linear bass without the distracting or piercing treble, while MLE, from what I understand (you can correct me if you like as I don't want to make an assumption and seem like an ass,) prefers brighter headphones.


 
  
 Keep in mind that the guide is for gaming headphones.  In general, brighter is better for competitive gaming, which is why it would seem that MLE prefers the brighter ones.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Keep in mind that the guide is for gaming headphones.  In general, brighter is better for competitive gaming, which is why it would seem that MLE prefers the brighter ones.


 
 I'm speaking more in terms of immersion and fun as opposed to competitive. If he wants a balance a both, than the TH600 WOULD be the better choice. However, the HE400i isn't honestly all that dark, it's just more warm than it is bright. It's a lot less dark than the Alpha Dogs, anyway, and those don't do too bad competitive. I'm not disagreeing with you in anyway, as I personally believe the best competitive headphone I've ever heard was the Beyerdynamic T1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I actually prefer warmer headphones now. I mainly suggested the TH600 because i hear it has some really good bass while sounding clean.

The old LCD2 is my ideal sound.


----------



## dakanao

So I just bought the CAL thanks to this topic, and I like the sound a lot. I only wish the voices were a bit more forward, and that the treble wouldn't be splashy sometimes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can't have bass as full as the CALs while having forward mids.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Can't have bass as full as the CALs while having forward mids.


 
 My previous headphones (JVC HA-S680) had A LOT more bass, but also more forward vocals. They are a bit veiled sounding though unEQ'ed, that's why I bought the CAL.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> So basically, the Limited Edition X7 is really only worth it if you MUST have 1ohm output impedance vs 2.2ohm.
> 
> So if the X7 goes down in price again, I recommend just getting the regular.




*So basically, now you understand that I was trying to save you some time, but now you've heard it from the horse's mouth. Glad you ended up agreeing with me!*



mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, FWIR, the specs for the internals wasn't all that impressive power-wise, particularly when powering 600ohm cans (less power than the E9K which was already lacking headroom for 600ohms).



*WHERE did you read? The power output ought to be close, as the headphone OpAmp chip is the same.*



mad lust envy said:


> Where do you hear that it has some of the performance of the bifrost? That sounds implausible. Though DACs don't sound all too diffferent from one another anyways. Judging by cost, I'd believe it more if the DAC was Modi level, not Bifrost.




Probably from me. I'm not saying the DAC is better than the BiFrost I have, but they sound awfully close.




sam21 said:


> I am gonna order the MA900, hear good things about it...



Lotsa good, I heard Mad's and agree the comfort and sound is very good for marathon audio/gaming sessions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, I believe someone posted specs on whatever the OEM piece the x7 is using, and I believe the 600ohm output was something like 60-something mw. That's less then the E9's 80, and E9k's 75mw. The Fiios already don't do miracles with 600ohm headphones, and I fear even more of a bottleneck with the X7. Of course, the X7 should be perfectly viable for nearly everything else, I'd just be wary if you want some headroom for 600ohm cans. I certainly don't think the HD800 would like the X7 in general, with it's near 900ohm impedance spike in it's bass, IIRC.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, I believe someone posted specs on whatever the OEM piece the x7 is using, and I believe the 600ohm output was something like 60-something mw. That's less then the E9's 80, and E9k's 75mw. The Fiios already don't do miracles with 600ohm headphones, and I fear even more of a bottleneck with the X7. Of course, the X7 should be perfectly viable for nearly everything else, I'd just be wary if you want some headroom for 600ohm cans. I certainly don't think the HD800 would like the X7 in general, with it's near 900ohm impedance spike in it's bass, IIRC.


 

 Huh, didn't know you converted to the "dark" side of warm headphones. Welcome to the club. The LCD 2 is also my favorite headphone, but it sadly met a freak accident like your D7000s. But instead of driver destruction, USPS let it get stolen from their sorting center and won't pay me for it.
  
 Anyway, I agree. I have this odd nagging feeling that they wanted to really just drive up to the AKGs and Beyerdynamics. They can't really drive planars all that well either. It caps its current at way too low (something like less than 700 milliamps) which leaves next to no headroom for anything. I could live with using it with the HE560's, but the sound wasn't near as full as it would be through  even the Asgard 2 I had owned at the time.
  
 Edit: corrected a word that I for some reason replaced in my mind with "malfunction." Even though it was a schiit malfunction.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Huh, didn't know you converted to the "dark" side of warm headphones. Welcome to the club. The LCD 2 is also my favorite headphone, but it sadly met a freak accident like your D7000s. But instead of driver destruction, USPS let it get stolen from their sorting center and won't pay me for it.
> 
> Anyway, I agree. I have this odd nagging feeling that they wanted to really just drive up to the AKGs and Beyerdynamics. They can't really drive planars all that well either. It caps its current at way too low (something like less than 700 milliamps) which leaves next to no headroom for anything. I could live with using it with the HE560's, but the sound wasn't near as full as it would be through  even the Asgard 2 I had owned at the time.
> 
> Edit: corrected a word that I for some reason replaced in my mind with "malfunction." Even though it was a schiit malfunction.


 
  
 I dunno, I mean... I think it's fair to say that anyone spending LCD-2/D7000/HE-560 money isn't going to buy a $400 Sound Blaster and expect it to be their endgame DAC and Amp.  They're clearly targeting a different demographic.  
  
 And again, I'm still not sure that it's a viable demographic... it seems rather specialized.  But for the folks who can use all the bells and whistles, it's pretty slick.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> I dunno, I mean... I think it's fair to say that anyone spending LCD-2/D7000/HE-560 money isn't going to buy a $400 Sound Blaster and expect it to be their endgame DAC and Amp.  They're clearly targeting a different demographic.
> 
> And again, I'm still not sure that it's a viable demographic... it seems rather specialized.  But for the folks who can use all the bells and whistles, it's pretty slick.


 
  
 I know. It's more viable as a mid-range DAC/DSP/Speaker Amp than it is as a headphone amp. I'm currently using everything BUT the speaker amps, which I will probably never use. As soon as my NFB-28 comes in, my Soloist is switching to be the amp of the X7.


----------



## lenroot77

Mad or Still could one of you compare the bass of the dt990's to the X1/X2 for me?

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'd definitely keep the X7 as an amp for anything that isn't a current hungry planar or 600ohm headphones. Basically the vast majority of headphones will work just fine off the X7, and for everything else, you can do fine with attaching an audiophile amp to the X7's line out. If I got the X7, the Vali will be permanently hitched to it, as an example. The Vali will do just fine with 600ohm headphones. Apparently the Vali is actually quite fantastic with the HD800. the HD800 is one of those headphones people always suiggest some stupidly expensive amps woith, so to hear the Vali sounds stellar with it... makes me happy.

That still leaves me a bit lacking in current hungry planars, but I don't see myself getting any anytime soon. Considering the X7 does have speaker outs... I guess I could go that route. I doubt any planar need the LE's amount of speaker power.

But yes, if you want the X7 alone as a solution for everything, I'd limit my headphones to non-600ohm ones or the bad end of power hungry planars.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> Mad or Still could one of you compare the bass of the dt990's to the X1/X2 for me?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Well I only heard the DT990 briefly at CES and I haven't had the X1 for about a year.  So with a pile of salt, the DT990 bass was more controlled and clean; the X1 had plenty of bass but it was very loose and bled into the mids.  It tightened up with decent amping, but not to DT990 levels.  
  
 The tradeoff of course is that the DT990 has painful treble and the X1 is very warm with recessed mids and treble.  
  
 Apparently the X2 took the bass down a notch so that it's more controlled and doesn't walk all over the mids, which gives it a much more balanced presentation.


----------



## lenroot77

stillhart said:


> Well I only heard the DT990 briefly at CES and I haven't had the X1 for about a year.  So with a pile of salt, the DT990 bass was more controlled and clean; the X1 had plenty of bass but it was very loose and bled into the mids.  It tightened up with decent amping, but not to DT990 levels.
> 
> The tradeoff of course is that the DT990 has painful treble and the X1 is very warm with recessed mids and treble.
> 
> Apparently the X2 took the bass down a notch so that it's more controlled and doesn't walk all over the mids, which gives it a much more balanced presentation.




Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've updated the guide, with PARTIAL (VERY PARTIAL) X2 review, as well as a link to Evs' X7 review (in the virtual surround amp section).

I did it early just to get the scores out first, since the X2 review still has to be processed at headphone.guru


There, now people can move on with their lives. I'll make sure to update with the full review as soon as it's available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not going to entertain anyone asking me questions about it's scores compared to the Annie or whatever. I've said things a million times, and I don't have the patience to do it again. I struggled with an 8.25 or 8.5, but ultimately feel I need to tone down the scores that hit too close to 9, which I feel need to be reduced quite a bit out of my older reviews, because that seems a bit too generous. In fact I feel like doing away with the tenth/hundreths in review scores, to simplify between great and amazing. 8s are GREAT. period. I'm done with the people who obsess over everything that isn't a 9 and up.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't know what's worse. Your scoring system, GameSpot's, or IGN's...

Yuk


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not going to entertain anyone asking me questions about it's scores compared to the Annie or whatever. I've said things a million times, and I don't have the patience to do it again. I struggled with an 8.25 or 8.5, but ultimately feel I need to tone down the scores that hit too close to 9, which I feel need to be reduced quite a bit out of my older reviews, because that seems a bit too generous. In fact I feel like doing away with the tenth/hundreths in review scores, to simplify between great and amazing. 8s are GREAT. period. I'm done with the people who obsess over everything that isn't a 9 and up.


 
  
 Gamers are used to reading game reviews, which are on a scale like this:
  
 1-7: Complete garbage
 7-8: Get it on a Steam sale or Humble Bundle for curiosity value
 8-9: Pretty decent, probably still doesn't work properly at launch lulz
 9-10:  A good to great game
 10:  No such thing
  
 So it's not surprising to see us picking over tenths of a point when we're used to such a compressed range.
  
 Now, I'm by no means defending the practice.  I'm just counseling again, as I have from my first week on here, to have some patience with us gamers.  Let the regulars carry your load.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> I don't know what's worse. Your scoring system, GameSpot's, or IGN's...
> 
> Yuk




Lol, definitely mine. 

If i could, I would just do away with the scoring period, and focus on actually just saying if it's great or not. People obsess way too much on numbers.

Oh 7.8? OMG it's not GREAT? WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, It's so close to great, a 7.8 COULD be great to someone else.

IGN... OMG, the WORST number of whiners on review scores there. Jesus. They only see 9s and ups there. If a great game gets an 8... it's as if the world is over, and an 8 is a horrible score. I mean, they literally have 'GREAT' in big bold letters.


----------



## Change is Good

Hahahaha.

The X1 scored 8.5s? The reviewer was clearly paid off. No way it scores the same as the Annie!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

:angry_face:

My fave of mine on IGN is when people complain that a game of a COMPLETELY different genre scored the same as something else. Gamers really are a bunch of ****ing idiots.


Why did Journey score as highly as Final Fantasy? BULLSHOT. Journey is too short! Blah blah blah.

This is why I just hate comparing scores, period. In terms of headphones it is very hard to compare unless you literally review them at the same time. There's no way i could compare anything to the D7000 nowadays. It's been way too long. Another reason why numerical scores in direct comparisons with headphones no longer in my hand doesn't make a lick of sense.


----------



## Hapster

mad lust envy said:


> Gamers really are a bunch of ****ing idiots




Saving this.


----------



## Roachpuffs

So I was out with my son today gearing up for baseball season and realized that I was close to a SamAsh music store. Of course I dragged him inside to see if they had a pair of Shure 1540s to listenen to, but they didn't. I was able to demo the Shure 840s and they sounded good but not the bass I am looking for. 

It just happened to be that there was a Guitar Center in the same shopping center. I wasn't expecting much as far as a diverse choice of headphones but, you never know. They did have one of the headphones on my list, so I walked out of there with a pair of Vmoda 100s. They had a 15% sale going on, and they were bought for $250. 

I have not had a lot of time listening to them but I have to say that I am very surprised with the sound. They are really fun to listen to. I quickly loaded Destiny on my PS4 and was very pleased with the impact and decent positional awareness. I had my DT 990s ready to go just for a quick comparison. The first thing I noticed was, "where is the bass?" This is my first pair of closed headphones and I think I will have some fun tonight with my Schiit stack! 

I really picked these up to get a frame of reference to compare. Is anyone able to speak for these headphones compared to the Ultrasone Pro 900s? Mad, I'm hoping that you have tried these out to give me an idea how they compare. Of course, if anyone else has experience with these headphones, your thuoghts would be greatly appreciated. 

"Dad, can we please go now? My legs are killing me just standing here!"

"Sure. Just one more minute."

Thanks all!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I tried the M100 briefly at a store in one of my local malls (Orlando has a lot of malls). I was quite impressed by it's sound. Can't say much more than that. Closed headphones of that nature aren't my cup of tea for gaming (shallow cups, leather pads), though I'm sure it's probably a very good performer in that regard. If I've learned anything, is that cups don't have to be huge to allow for a very good sense of virtual surround space.

I do wonder how the sound is affected by the XL pads on the M100 though.


----------



## Roachpuffs

mad lust envy said:


> I tried the M100 briefly at a store in one of my local malls (Orlando has a lot of malls). I was quite impressed by it's sound. Can't say much more than that. Closed headphones of that nature aren't my cup of tea for gaming (shallow cups, leather pads), though I'm sure it's probably a very good performer in that regard. If I've learned anything, is that cups don't have to be huge to allow for a very good sense of virtual surround space.
> 
> I do wonder how the sound is affected by the XL pads on the M100 though.




Just out of curiosity, what type of music do you listen to and why did you choose the pro900s as the only closed cans to review since they are not your cup of tea?


----------



## Evshrug

I've owned a pair of m-100 for quite a while. There's something about tons of accessories and custom-made earcup "shields." I also greatly enjoyed the sound, not reference but fun and quite capable. Good with surround processing too, not amp picky (pretty good match with Creative E1, the E1 is not enough for K612). Compact.
My ONLY con is the comfort - fine and maybe great at first, but 30-60 mins in I really feel them on my ears, longer than about 50 minutes the clamp/cup size/closed nature cause me pain. I know bigger cups would probably look odd out on the town, but I wish the M-100 didn't pin the outer edge of my ears flat against my head.
Therefore, I don't often wear them, but occasionally I "rediscover" them.


----------



## Evshrug

roachpuffs said:


> Just out of curiosity, what type of music do you listen to and why did you choose the pro900s as the only closed cans to review since they are not your cup of tea?



Well, he also reviewed the Denon D7000 and Creative Aurvana Live! (CAL!), but the D7000 were the only ones he bought. The others were loaned to him.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, I have reviewed, as well as bought plenty of closed cans, some which i didn't even review.

And those are not the only ones i bought. I dont even know how people are forgetting stuff like the M50s, DT770s, and some others... Things i bought myself.

I dont understand what my taste in music has anything to do with gaming. I listen to all types of music.

Unless there is a direct need for isolation, there is no reason to choose closed over an open headphone. Open headphones have the best SQ, period. The only thing closed headphones do better is the presence of bass due to the enclosure behind the driver, as opposed to the free sonic movement of open headphones. And all that is is just harmonic distortion caused by the bounce back of the bass.

You would think that since i have a thing for bass heavy genres that i would have at least one closed headphone. But no, the benefit of open headphones far outweigh the need for the energy of bass closed headphones give.


----------



## Baby Face Tony

Any insight strictly about the bass on CAL 2 or CAL 1 compared to previous headphones I have used and liked their bass?
  
 JVC HA-NC250
  
 Logitech/Ultimate Ears UE 6000
  
 Klipsch Image One Gen II
  
 There's just 1 store that have headphones on display near me and its "Best" Buy so I'm limited to what they have and currently they have delayed shipment and limited inventory *coughTheyAreClosingcough* so pretty much all there is Bose, Beats/Monster, Sony and Samsung. They had an interesting Sony MDR-XB950 not quite what I wanted and a much better but much pricier Samsung Level Over but I was looking something no higher than $130.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If your Best Buy has a Magnolia section, they should have a pretty decent lineup of headphones up for demo. Stuff like the ESW9, A900, K550, Momentum, Momentum On Ear, among some others have been up at my local Best Buys magnolia section.


----------



## Roachpuffs

mad lust envy said:


> Lol, I have reviewed, as well as bought plenty of closed cans, some which i didn't even review.
> 
> And those are not the only ones i bought. I dont even know how people are forgetting stuff like the M50s, DT770s, and some others... Things i bought myself.
> 
> ...




LOL. I don't understand what your taste in music has to do with gaming either. It wasn't a gaming question. I was just curious what genres you enjoyed most.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My profile has a list of genres I mostly favor.


----------



## Fegefeuer

roachpuffs said:


> So I was out with my son today gearing up for baseball season and realized that I was close to a SamAsh music store. Of course I dragged him inside to see if they had a pair of Shure 1540s to listenen to, but they didn't. I was able to demo the Shure 840s and they sounded good but not the bass I am looking for.
> 
> It just happened to be that there was a Guitar Center in the same shopping center. I wasn't expecting much as far as a diverse choice of headphones but, you never know. They did have one of the headphones on my list, so I walked out of there with a pair of Vmoda 100s. They had a 15% sale going on, and they were bought for $250.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have the M100 since almost half a year by now and I really like them by now. At first it was kinda hard to appreciate them due to the bass pronunciation starting too early (I would have preferred at around 120-150Hz at max) but over time and a lot mobile use in trains, busses, at work I started to like them more and more for their lively, fun, punchy, kicking sound signature. Soundstage is better than the M50.
  
 I advise against the Pro 900 unless you mod the terrible, potentially harmful highs. They are no joke, they will create fatigue soon but depending on the volume they'll also cause far mor early damage to your ears. I agree with Mad Love Entity about the kinda unique kick bass but if you want a "Pro 900 done right" then look for the Ultrasone Signature DJ in a sale or even used offer. They are noticably better, the ultimate, closed, isolating basshead can, and they kick very hard. 
  
 For gaming though, always look for open headphones, unless High End Denon/Fostex. They are terribly hard to resist.


----------



## Roachpuffs

evshrug said:


> I've owned a pair of m-100 for quite a while. There's something about tons of accessories and custom-made earcup "shields." I also greatly enjoyed the sound, not reference but fun and quite capable. Good with surround processing too, not amp picky (pretty good match with Creative E1, the E1 is not enough for K612). Compact.
> My ONLY con is the comfort - fine and maybe great at first, but 30-60 mins in I really feel them on my ears, longer than about 50 minutes the clamp/cup size/closed nature cause me pain. I know bigger cups would probably look odd out on the town, but I wish the M-100 didn't pin the outer edge of my ears flat against my head.
> Therefore, I don't often wear them, but occasionally I "rediscover" them.


 
 I agree with the comfort issue.  I had the same experience, but my discomfort didn't kick in until the 90 minute mark.  If I wind up keeping these, I may look into the XL ear pads.


----------



## Roachpuffs

fegefeuer said:


> I have the M100 since almost half a year by now and I really like them by now. At first it was kinda hard to appreciate them due to the bass pronunciation starting too early (I would have preferred at around 120-150Hz at max) but over time and a lot mobile use in trains, busses, at work I started to like them more and more for their lively, fun, punchy, kicking sound signature. Soundstage is better than the M50.
> 
> I advise against the Pro 900 unless you mod the terrible, potentially harmful highs. They are no joke, they will create fatigue soon but depending on the volume they'll also cause far mor early damage to your ears. I agree with Mad Love Entity about the kinda unique kick bass but if you want a "Pro 900 done right" then look for the Ultrasone Signature DJ in a sale or even used offer. They are noticably better, the ultimate, closed, isolating basshead can, and they kick very hard.
> 
> For gaming though, always look for open headphones, unless High End Denon/Fostex. They are terribly hard to resist.


 
 Hey Fegefeuer!  Thanks for the response.  I will take a look at the Signature DJs.  I already have a pair of open headphones
 (Beyer DT990).  I've had them for about two years now.  They are fantastic, but I don't play any FPS games, so a pair of closed headphones seems to add more fun to the games I play.


----------



## malla1ml

Amazon lightning deal on the Philips Fidelio X1 for $169 again. Open to prime members now.  They sold out really quick previously.  
  
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/


----------



## Fegefeuer

roachpuffs said:


> Hey Fegefeuer!  Thanks for the response.  I will take a look at the Signature DJs.  I already have a pair of open headphones
> (Beyer DT990).  I've had them for about two years now.  They are fantastic, but I don't play any FPS games, so a pair of closed headphones seems to add more fun to the games I play.


 
  
 If you're in the US also consider the LFF Paradox Slants. They are a very well (hand) tuned T50RP and if I wasn't tired of paying damn customs everytime I would have gotten one already. Maybe there's a loaner somewhere or you can make a deal with LFF.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hes looking for bass. Not audiophile bass. A kick in the ass bass. Slants aren't going to please him.


----------



## dakanao

So after 1 day of using the CAL, I like their sound, but the midrange seems slightly recessed. Did you have this problem as well MLE?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because it is recessed? The CAL is V-shaped, mening mids are recessed relative to bass and treble. Don't know why you're surprised. That being said, the CAL isn't aggressively V shaped, since the bass and lower mids are both upfront. It's the upper mids that are recessed. The treble is only prominent in a shallow range, and not a broad area of treble. So while it is slightly treble, it's also smooth.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Hes looking for bass. Not audiophile bass. A kick in the ass bass. Slants aren't going to please him.


 
  
 Sig DJ then. Just need to forget about the Pro 900 or damp it properly
  
 On another note: I sold the MDR-Z7. Probably the most unrefined gem of a headphone I ever had.
 Very good soundstage and imaging, better than most closed headphones that exist(ed). Not TH-900 level but still darn good. 
  
 I kinda wish it really was a closed HD 650, yet the somewhat disconnected surprisingly thinner mids make them inferior in that regard and ultimately not a keeper.
  
 It's completely undamped on the back and this is what mostly leads to the lack of refinement. Though through all that rawness you can sense the great potential of this headphone, glimmering like distant stars. So basically: What Sony. Sure I could mod them or let someone do it who can also measure but I'm not doing this for such a pricey headphone.
  
 Build quality and materials are highest class. 10/10.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, i heard it was a big disappointment.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone having any issues with their x7? Mine turns off occasionally... Guess I'll be contacting creative soon.


----------



## Change is Good

I was just offered a brand new 400i for a really good pice.. Someone stop me... please...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I was just offered a brand new 400i for a really good pice.. Someone stop me... please...


 
  
 As a 400i owner, I refuse.
  
 And my aluminum pieces arrived yesterday, I can continue my mods on Saturday!


----------



## Change is Good

What kind of modding have you been doing?


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> I was just offered a brand new 400i for a really good pice.. Someone stop me... please...


 

 I can't man. They're like the HE500...too special and I could see someone making an end-game setup for them.


----------



## Stillhart

I wasn't super impressed with the HE-400i.  I'm curious how much modding will improve them.  I know the HFM's are really moddable.
  
 The HE-560, on the other hand, is probably going to be my endgame for a bit.  LOVING it!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> What kind of modding have you been doing?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/738912/he-560-enhancement-mod-2015-02-08-new-revision-out
  
 I'm following Jerg's recommended steps for the HE-560. Just got the last part I needed. And the grill mod is already done. Does a nice job enhancing space, air, and soundstage.


----------



## AmrLopin

hey guys, so im deciding between Byeredynamic DT990 pro 250 ohm and Sennheiser HD598 for gaming,

 also i understand that both of them has pretty good soundstages so that leaves to comfortwise

 comfort is my top priority and it's the main reason im getting a new headphone in the first place, so i'd like to know which one is more comfortable?

 i have abit of large ears and my current siberia v2 keep pressing on the back of my ears which is annoying after 1.5 hours and later it becomes downright painfull.

 thanks in advance


----------



## 1llest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlOFIiW9Vbc


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Astro with a crappy mic input. Not surprised. Makes me glad I have the cable that goes from the DS4 to the Mixamp 5.8's controller input.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I caved in. FML


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Well, I caved in. FML


 
  
 Good, good, let the empty wallet burn.


----------



## Change is Good

It won't for long. Some of these headphones will have to go, plus the price I paid for the 400i doesn't have me feeling that bad.

It's going to be tough choosing, though...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll be ordering the Schiit Valhalla 2 as an intermediate amp (though for maybe even 2 years) after the Vali suprised me (yes yes, both have different signatures) in how it drives the HD 800. Really impressive little fella. Now it's hard to have an excuse to not get the HD 800 because EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AMPING REQZZZZZZZzzZZZ.


----------



## cocolinho

fegefeuer said:


> I'll be ordering the Schiit Valhalla 2 as an intermediate amp (though for maybe even 2 years) after the Vali suprised me (yes yes, both have different signatures) in how it drives the HD 800. Really impressive little fella. Now it's hard to have an excuse to not get the HD 800 because EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AMPING REQZZZZZZZzzZZZ.


 
 Exactly! Dacmagic+Valhalla 2 is a very good combo for HD800 at a very low price! For the moment I'm using Vali as it's impossible to find somewhere Valhalla 2 in EU for 3 months now...


----------



## PurpleAngel

amrlopin said:


> hey guys, so I'm deciding between Beyeredynamic DT990 pro 250 ohm and Sennheiser HD598 for gaming,
> also i understand that both of them has pretty good sound stages so that leaves to comfortwise
> comfort is my top priority and it's the main reason I'm getting a new headphone in the first place, so I'd like to know which one is more comfortable?
> i have abit of large ears and my current Siberia v2 keep pressing on the back of my ears which is annoying after 1.5 hours and later it becomes downright painfull.


 
  
 The DT990 might be a touch more comfortable
 DT990 has a strong bass/treble, which slightly over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear
 Like to think of them having something like a movie theater type sound.
 DT990 really need to be used with at least a half-way decent amplifier.
  
 HD598 is a little more reserved sound, decently balanced sound and an amplifier use is optional.


----------



## Fegefeuer

cocolinho said:


> Exactly! Dacmagic+Valhalla 2 is a very good combo for HD800 at a very low price! For the moment I'm using Vali as it's impossible to find somewhere Valhalla 2 in EU for 3 months now...


 
  
 http://www.schiit-europe.com/index.php/producten/valhalla-2-product-4.html
  
 Expected restocking: March 15th. Sent from the Netherlands with full warranty.


----------



## cocolinho

That's what I am saying :not available. Availability is postponed since December. Few days ago expected stock was March 1st


----------



## AmrLopin

purpleangel said:


> The DT990 might be a touch more comfortable
> DT990 has a strong bass/treble, which slightly over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear
> Like to think of them having something like a movie theater type sound.
> DT990 really need to be used with at least a half-way decent amplifier.
> ...




Yes i'm planning on getting FiiO E10k if i ended up with 990, it looks like the best option in my budget, i was just concerned that it might not be enough to drive 990 but most people say it enough for the job.

If there are any better options in the same price range then please feel free to suggest, I'm total Noob in audio and would appreciate Any advice, thanks


----------



## martin vegas

I am going to pax east this year looking forward to it, I am getting a 8 seater Lincoln navigator to test drive for the three days..driving from New York to boston!


----------



## burritoboy9984

martin vegas said:


> I am going to pax east this year looking forward to it, I am getting a 8 seater Lincoln navigator to test drive for the three days..driving from New York to boston!




Assuming Turtle Beach is there, do you think you could ask them if and when they might be releasing the Tournament Audio Controller? Originally it was Winter of 2014/2015, but I fear they might have cancelled it. After trying their DTS-X headphones I can't wait to be able to use my own.

Thanks
Erik


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> I am going to pax east this year looking forward to it, I am getting a 8 seater Lincoln navigator to test drive for the three days..driving from New York to boston!


 
  
 I go to PAX Prime every year.  You're going to have a blast!  
  


burritoboy9984 said:


> Assuming Turtle Beach is there, do you think you could ask them if and when they might be releasing the Tournament Audio Controller? Originally it was Winter of 2014/2015, but I fear they might have cancelled it. After trying their DTS-X headphones I can't wait to be able to use my own.
> 
> Thanks
> Erik


 
  
 I asked them at CES and the guy just gave me a wry smile and shook his head.  "Notice we don't have it here today?"  Basically, don't expect it anytime soon.


----------



## dakanao

So after 2 days of gaming with the CALs, my game has improved. It's easier to pinpoint enemies than with my JVC's.
  
 Only downside is if someone is like 20 feet from me, I'm having a bit of difficulty pinpointing where he as.
  
 But nonethelles, they are some very good headphones.


----------



## bigbeard

would you recommend any op-amp upgrades for the X7, which are paired with my ps4 and dt 990 premiums?


----------



## Ryanr1987

roachpuffs said:


> So I was out with my son today gearing up for baseball season and realized that I was close to a SamAsh music store. Of course I dragged him inside to see if they had a pair of Shure 1540s to listenen to, but they didn't. I was able to demo the Shure 840s and they sounded good but not the bass I am looking for.
> 
> It just happened to be that there was a Guitar Center in the same shopping center. I wasn't expecting much as far as a diverse choice of headphones but, you never know. They did have one of the headphones on my list, so I walked out of there with a pair of Vmoda 100s. They had a 15% sale going on, and they were bought for $250.
> 
> ...


 
 The Pro 900 is more of a aggressively tuned V shaped headphone. It's a dry headphone so for gaming it;s going to give a better sense of air in the virtual space. They are more detailed and have better positional accuracy than the M100. The M100 is more lush sounding with it's rolled off treble and boosted bass. I've heard many different M100 's though and have found that they are an inconsistent headphone when it comes to tuning. You either get a overbearing wolly bass version or a set that is more balanced but still bass heavy. The difference are obvious to the point I much preferred the more balanced over the crazy bass. I think V-Moda do have an issue with drive consistency or at least they did.
  
 That out the way I personally prefer the M100 for music and the Pro 900 for gaming. The M100 has ok depth for a closed but the left to right is too close to your ear due to the nature of the combination of tuning, cups and pads.


----------



## Roachpuffs

Thanks for the response. I have been using the m 100s for almost a week. I have been mostly listening to them with music and a little bit of gaming. I truly enjoy then immensely! Listening at moderate volume makes these headphones great for most of my music too. They pair nicely with my magni/modi uber 2 stack as well. The versatility of these cans is a major plus. I am lucky as these are well balanced with amazing bass. I'm going to keep these and I hear the XL pads open the soundstage too.


----------



## Evshrug

ryanr1987 said:


> The Pro 900 is more of a aggressively tuned V shaped headphone. It's a dry headphone so for gaming it;s going to give a better sense of air in the virtual space. They are more detailed and have better positional accuracy than the M100. The M100 is more lush sounding with it's rolled off treble and boosted bass. I've heard many different M100 's though and have found that they are an inconsistent headphone when it comes to tuning. You either get a overbearing wolly bass version or a set that is more balanced but still bass heavy. The difference are obvious to the point I much preferred the more balanced over the crazy bass. I think V-Moda do have an issue with drive consistency or at least they did.
> 
> That out the way I personally prefer the M100 for music and the Pro 900 for gaming. The M100 has ok depth for a closed but the left to right is too close to your ear due to the nature of the combination of tuning, cups and pads.




If you believe Val Kolton, he threw away manufactured product that didn't meet his driver tolerance standards, and went through several manufacturers to find one that would keep tight tolerances. So, unless they got lax since the XS-release, my theory is that the condition of the pads is more likely the cause of significant M-100 variation.

M-100 pads are memory foam wrapped in pleather, and there are vent holes on the inside where the pads meet the cups. Compression of the memory foam, sweat buildup changing density, user mods... those all are proven to change sound, and leading up to the XL pads there was much discussion (in the huge M-100 thread) about stuffing the pads up and how it changed sound.

I don't mind the original depth, I just wish the pads weren't partially on-ear (though apparently pinning your ears is part of where the sound comes from).


----------



## Ryanr1987

Even swopping pads between them didn't change it. It could of been the first batches that didn't shift. There's definitely an inconsistancy but it could of been fixed by now.


----------



## CannonCollector

When you connect the DSS to your ps4/ps3, in order to use dolby headphone you have to turn it on, on the DSS obviously... but do you need to change the settings on the ps4 aswell? I know there's an option on the console in the audio settings where you can change the audio signal to dolby headphone, just wondering if you have to have dolby turned on in the mixamp and the console


----------



## anticris81

Hi guys I wanted to ask, between these two handsets from budget to play fps, whichme recomendais, thank you


----------



## anticris81




----------



## anticris81

anticris81 said:


>


 
Hi guys I wanted to ask, between these two handsets from budget to play fps, philips shp9500 or panasonic rp-htf890, which I recomendais, thank you


----------



## burritoboy9984

anticris81 said:


> Hi guys I wanted to ask, between these two handsets from budget to play fps, philips shp9500 or panasonic rp-htf890, which I recomendais, thank you


 
  
 I can't speak to the Pannys, but I own the Philips and I actually prefer using it for fps's over my X1's. For the money I'm not sure it can be beat.
  
 -Erik


----------



## anticris81

Sorry for my English, but I speak Spanish, you have the x 1 or the shp9500


----------



## burritoboy9984

I have both, I prefer the 9500's for fps's. Less bass and better positioning imo. The X1's for immersion wins hands down though.
  
 Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

El le gusta el 9500 mas que el X1 para juegos.


----------



## AxelCloris

Whoa, Hispanic Americans speak Spanish? Who'da thunk?


----------



## Change is Good

^Pinché cabrón


----------



## Fegefeuer

Awesome comprehensive review with power measurements for 32-600 Ohms

http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detail-review-impressions


----------



## Roachpuffs

Is it true to say the Vmoda m100s scale well when amped? If so, I have a question. I currently own the magni/modi uber 2 stack. Do you think the Asgard 2 would be a better match with these headphones?

Thanks


----------



## anticris81

Thank you, mad lust enviy your you've heard the panasonic rp-htf890, I read that muchresembles the ad700, I feel my English is Bing translator, I am Spanish,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Si no esta en la primera pagina, yo no lo a usado.


----------



## anticris81

gracias por responder y por este hilo


----------



## jtlindeman

So I just received the k7xx from MassDrop. Must say I'm pleasantly surprised with the bass on these things, they actually rival my dt990's with certain songs after some EQ adjustments to the lower frequencies. The soundstage and separation is on another level though, was actually kind of jarring the first time I played CS GO on them lol.
  
 I have a question on what would be the ideal way to run these off of my PC, that I was hoping someone could shed some light on. I was running my dt990's through a Sound Blaster Z into a Magni, and just recently realized that the SBZ has a reasonably powerful headphone amp inside (says its able to power 600 ohms adequately). I know that double amping is less than ideal, but I've never noticed any distortion or noise from doing it. I tried running the k7xx directly from the SBZ, and I'm only able to turn the Windows volume to around 25 before it gets unbearable. I've read that lowering the Windows volume can reduce the bitrate of sounds being played, so this would also be less than ideal. Running through the Magni I can set the overall EQ level to -12db which lets me max the Windows volume and control the volume using the Magni. Would reducing the EQ level this way also have a negative effect on the sound quality?
  
 So my question is what would preserve the quality of the source material the best?
  
 -Setting EQ preamp to -12db and maxing the windows volume then running through Magni
 -Leaving EQ preamp at 0db, running Windows volume at 50% through the Magni
 -Setting EQ preamp to -12db and setting Windows volume to whatever is bearable directly through SBZ
 -Leaving EQ preamp at 0db and setting Windows volume to whatever is bearable directly through SBZ
  
 Sorry if I didn't explain the situation clearly and thanks in advance for any insight.


----------



## Change is Good

My HE-400i arrived, just now. I was able to listen to one song in my rig before leaving for work. Wow... just... wow...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> My HE-400i arrived, just now. I was able to listen to one song in my rig before leaving for work. Wow... just... wow...


 
  
 Damn it took you long enough to join the 400i train.
  
 Welp, today is a day off. Time to visit the post office and then resume modding my 400i!


----------



## Change is Good

Well, first off, I wasn't going to pay $500 for it. The only modding I'll be doing is switching the pads...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wanted to ask, what does the 1540 pads do to the 400i?


----------



## Change is Good

Haven't had any time to compare, yet. I have to get used to it's stock sound before making any judgement. I do like what I'm hearing, though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course. Keep us posted. That's one thing I considered had I gotten the 400i. The 1540 pads are just too good to dismiss. I loved them on the 400.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Of course. Keep us posted. That's one thing I considered had I gotten the 400i. *The 1540 pads are just too good to dismiss*. I loved them on the 400.


 
  
 This!
  
 I keep looking for a headphone just for the pads, lmao. The HP200 played the role, quite well, but the HE400i takes the cake. For some reason, the pads play better with open cans than with closed. 
  
 I will definitely keep you posted....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, I rented the Order 1886. I beat it, and I can say:

1. The graphics are... quite outstanding. It feels like a decent game's prerendered cutscenes, all in real time. Or like the best prerendered backgrounds out of a game like Resident Evil, all in super high quiality and playable.

2. The gameplay is pretty generic. I mean, outside of it's graphics, this game would never be on ANYONE's real radar. I've played better TPS games in 2006 (Gears of War anyone?). It is all very standard shooting. Not very fun either.

3. The length of the game is over exaggerated. It is not THAT short. I felt for the type of game that it was, the length was plenty. In fact, I felt that it could've been SHORTER, but they artificially lengthened it by having your characxter walk slowly through some parts of the game.

4. The ending was abrupt and just...What NO. They should be ashamed by ending the game that way. The story was pretty bland in general, but that ending was... I can't explain.

5. This is for us audiophiles: *THE GAME ONLY HAS A STEREO SPEAKERS AND STEREO HEADPHONES OPTION* ARE YOU FLIPPING SERIOUS? From what I could tell, it seems I was only hearing a Pro Logic II type surround, not legit. This is upsetting. Complete disregard for audiophiles. They literally focused everything on graphics. Unacceptable.

Actually, anyone else playing the game and has a receiver capable of letting you know if it's playing in Dolby Digital, can you check if the DD icon lights up (via optical)? Apparently it still plays in surround, but honestly, positional cues are pretty weak in this game. In fact, there was a few sections where the sound effects were coming form a COMPLETELY different angle from where they were supposed to. I honestly think the audio is effed in the game.


In short: DON'T BUY THE GAME. RENT IT.


----------



## Change is Good

I've actually been meaning to rent 1886, myself. No redbox in my area has it, though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I actually had to go out of my way to rent it. Only one box in all of Orlando (5 area zip codes that I checked) had it.

Though, some redboxes AREN'T tied to the online available list, as was able to rent Last of Us Remastered recently, when it wasn't even on the online's list of games anymore. I think Redbox will update it's boxes with more copies on Tuesdays, like they usually do.


----------



## Change is Good

After a slight comparison, I can say the alcantaras add some bass at the expense of a little air/soundstage. Others may not like it, but definitely welcome for my tastes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it bass boost/treble reduction? Air/soundstage and treble do tend to go hand in hand. How are the mids affected? One thing I hear is how the mids are amazing on the 400i.

One thing is that I don't really need a super big soundstage on my planars. So if the bass boost is beneficial to the overall tonality, all for the better.

Also, how does the bass (with and without the 1540 pads stack up to the 7XX's bass? I ask because the reason I dismissed the 400i was how it seemed to take away what made the 400 special to me), that bass. I know it won't exactly be the 400's bass, but if it can at least match the 7XX, it may be worth checking out).

Of course, you don't have to answer these tjings now. Get around to it if you can, once you're very well acquainted with the 400i in all aspects.


----------



## Change is Good

If there is a reduction in treble, it is only slight. Not as noticeable as the change in soundstage and bass. Same with the mids. And, yes, the mids are absolutely beautiful.
  
 Trust, I will be answering all those questions once I have some steady ground to base my opinions on. I might even write a detailed review/comparison with the K7XX when all said and done...


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> After a slight comparison, I can say the alcantaras add some bass at the expense of a little air/soundstage. Others may not like it, but definitely welcome for my tastes.


 
  
 They've done this on both headphones I've tried them on (HE-4 and HP100) so not surprised.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> So, I rented the Order 1886. I beat it, and I can say:
> 
> 1. The graphics are... quite outstanding. It feels like a decent game's prerendered cutscenes, all in real time. Or like the best prerendered backgrounds out of a game like Resident Evil, all in super high quiality and playable.
> 
> ...




Very disappointing about the sound! I really was hoping the audio quality would match the visuals. Just reserved a copy at red box as if still like to see what it looks like.

Did anyone else get in on the bestbuy/ebay ps4 error this morning? They were selling ps4s for buy one get one free!!! Haha I've received a shipping confirmation so looks like they are fulfilling the orders that were placed prior to them fixing the listing. Fingers crossed!


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Based on your review I decide to go with The AKG 712 PRO +Astro 2015 
Mixamp. My question is Do I still need a Amp or I'm set?


----------



## Change is Good

I use my AKG K7XX straight out of my mixamp 5.8 on the PS4. You should be fine without an amp. Just save up for a good standalone for the desktop setup, down the line


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

change is good said:


> I use my AKG K7XX straight out of my mixamp 5.8 on the PS4. You should be fine without an amp. Just save up for a good standalone for the desktop setup, down the line


Thanks. I'm using a Sennheiser HD598 right now. But I coud't resist in getting the AKG 712 Pro! Got that tax return and wanted to treat myself a bit! I also got that Alienware Alpha I7 so I still New to PC gaming, So I mainly use my PS4/XONE for FPS!


----------



## Inspectre

Would anyone give me a recommendation between these headphones?
  
 The Audio-Technica AD700 is discontinued, but there are still some new on Amazon for $200, or the AD700x for $120.  Is the AD700 (non-x) worth the price increase? 
 Or, should I consider the AKG Q701 at $220?
  
 I would prefer to buy new, as this will be a gift.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AD700x is the AD700 with a different color scheme, and more plastic used. It is still the same sound. Don't waste money on the older one.


----------



## PurpleAngel

inspectre said:


> Would anyone give me a recommendation between these headphones?
> The Audio-Technica AD700 is discontinued, but there are still some new on Amazon for $200, or the AD700x for $120.  Is the AD700 (non-x) worth the price increase?
> Or, should I consider the AKG Q701 at $220?
> I would prefer to buy new, as this will be a gift.
> Thanks in advance!


 
  
 There are no good reasons for getting the older ATH-AD700, over the newer ATH-AD700X.
  
 I actually prefer my SennHD558s, over my AD700, as the HD558 have a little more bass.
  
 If your not in a rush to get the headphones, check out the AKG KXX, at Massdrop.


----------



## PacoTaco

Inspectre, if you want a AD700x but slightly more enjoyable, the Sennheiser G4me One is just a rebadged HD598 with a good mic. This is the only gaming headset I would ever recommend though, as they're usually 99% crap. But Sennheiser stuff has been falling in price lately, so this is more fair than usual.
  
 Avoid the gaming headset version of the AD700 though. While it sounds just slightly better...the extra 100$ is kinda wasted. The mic is incredibly good and it's built better, but that can't justify the price hike.
  
 Other than that one exception by Sennheiser, you're better off with a separate headphone + an antlion mic.
  
  
 Hell, best combo I've seen for convenience has been the Fidelio X1 with the V-moda boom mic.


----------



## Change is Good

Okay, after playing with the alcantaras for a short while I quickly went back to the Focus pads on the 400i so I can start comparing to the K7XX. Based on short impressions, the two are far more similar than different. The K7XX has slightly more bass, soundstage, and* *treble. The obvious difference, and yet still slightly, is the 400i having more forward mids, and man are they beautiful. So clear, so smooth, and yet gentle on the ears. I've been needing a headphone with forward mids that doesn't bore me, and I think I have found it. Though, I would consider the 400i to be more neutral than mid-centric when compared to something like the MA900 and such (mainly because of the more present treble on the 400i).


----------



## oscarc

change is good said:


> I use my AKG K7XX straight out of my mixamp 5.8 on the PS4. You should be fine without an amp. Just save up for a good standalone for the desktop setup, down the line


 
 Do you have any volume issues with the K7XX and mixamp? I tried the K7XX with my MixAmp 2013 on the XBONE and had to turn the volume to almost maximum to get decent game volume. Maybe the 5.8 is a different animal? Based on some feedback I received, I will be better off introducing an amp between the mixamp and K7XX.


----------



## Change is Good

oscarc said:


> Do you have any volume issues with the K7XX and mixamp? I tried the K7XX with my MixAmp 2013 on the XBONE and had to turn the volume to almost maximum to get decent game volume. Maybe the 5.8 is a different animal? Based on some feedback I received, I will be better off introducing an amp between the mixamp and K7XX.


 
  
 Well, I did used to own the Mixamp 2011, and can say I do vaguely remember always needing to double amp my Q701 and later the K712 when I had the pairing. Surprisingly, I don't have the need to do so with the K7XX and 5.8 pairing. Maybe my ears are much better trained, or the 5.8 does push out a little more juice. I'm usually at 70% volume setting when chatting, give or take.


----------



## wilflare

any recommendations on how I should hook up my Philips Fidelio X1 to my PlayStation TV?


----------



## Inspectre

mad lust envy said:


> The AD700x is the AD700 with a different color scheme, and more plastic used. It is still the same sound. Don't waste money on the older one.


 
  
 Ah, thanks for saving me $80, and for your guide(it's pretty awesome).
  


purpleangel said:


> I actually prefer my SennHD558s, over my AD700, as the HD558 have a little more bass.


 
  I am a bit concerned over the AD700x's lack of 'fun'. Compared to the HD558, is the AD700x much better for competitive gaming?  Which do you prefer for comfort?
  
 Quote:


pacotaco said:


> Inspectre, if you want a AD700x but slightly more enjoyable, the Sennheiser G4me One is just a rebadged HD598 with a good mic.


 
 Actually I did buy an antlion mic, do you think you would say that the Sennheiser HD598 is as competitive as the AD700x?
  
 Sorry for all the questions, just trying to see all my options real quick as I have to purchase soon.


----------



## Yethal

> pacotaco said:
> 
> 
> > Inspectre, if you want a AD700x but slightly more enjoyable, the Sennheiser G4me One is just a rebadged HD598 with a good mic.
> ...


 
 I have the exact same setup and I am very pleased with it's quality. Go for it You won't be disappointed.
  
 On a completely unrelated note, I just ordered Creative X7. I'm already pretty happy with my current setup, but let's face it, these are four different devices stacked on top of each other,they take up two wall outlets and use 9 cables to wire it up. Plus, I'd have to buy yet another little box to connect it to a set of speakers, complicating it even further.
  
 I love these little boxes as they were my first audiophile (if only entry level) gear but adding even a small speaker amp would make the setup complexity meter go up to eleven. So I decided to replace them with an all-in-one device that would perform all of their duties and more. I hope they will find a new home with someone who will appreciate how great they are for their price and size.
  
 [EDIT]. Jeez, I think I just described a ******* Schiit stack with level of subtlety previously reserved only for girlfriends/wives.


----------



## Ryanr1987

Glad someone else is noticed how amazing the mids are. There's a lot of people that seem t think they are pretty U shaped and others who just basically say the mids are well integrated. I found the mids one of the best in the price range. Not quite as magical as the HD650's but bloody good. I found vocals to sound really up close and personal! Compared to the HD650 they are a little drier sounding. 
  
 I also own the K7XX and Annie and found they compete well. The HE400i wins in bass for me when it comes to presence. The K7XX did seem to extend a tad further in some tracks. Mids went to the HE400i for me but only just.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having less bass than the 7XX is an issue i don't want out of a $500 headphone. I consider the 7XX's bass as my limit for how i want my bass. I love magical mids, but not when the bass is weaker.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Having less bass than the 7XX is an issue i don't want out of a $500 headphone. I consider the 7XX's bass as my limit for how i want my bass. I love magical mids, but not when the bass is weaker.


 
 I had to look up the FR graphs because I've had both the K712, HE400i AND the HE400 at the same time, and didn't remember the K712 having more bass than any of them.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE4002014.pdf
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK712.pdf
  
 And the LCD 2 rev 2 C
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pdf
  
 And the HE400
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE400.pdf
  
 The K712/KXX has the almost the same about of mid-bass as the HE400i. It's just that the HE400i is very linear in the bass, and reaches VERY low. This makes it SEEM like there's less bass because everything has an equal amount of presence (which you can even see on the 30hz square wave that it has more.) The K712, on the other hand, has a large mid-bass hump compared to the sub-bass, making it seem like it has more bass despite having less...as it the boomy part just has more presence than the low rumbles. The HE400 has slightly more/deeper bass than both of them, but not as much compared to the HE400i. The HE400i is basically a more intimate, balanced out HE500, which honestly had other qualities in it that made up for the hair sized shaving off of the bass.
  
 Plus, you shouldn't be buying it new. Buy it from Razordog on Ebay for like 395$. Brian just resells immediate returns and show items as B-stock with full warranty and return benefits. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFiMAN-HE-400i-full-size-Planar-Magnetic-headphone-AUTHORIZED-DEALER-/121576908268?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4e8c65ec


----------



## Ryanr1987

I only noticed it with ceetain songs but there is def a roll off in the sub bass that makes me wish ot had the HE400's bass. If you still have the LCD2 then I doubt you would be too impressed. Still I suppose it's good to experience as much as possible. 

Since you like mids and bass try the Focal Spirit classic if you feel like venturing into closed. Great mids! Like liquid gold and great bass. If it wasn't for the tight fit that irritated my piercings I would of kept them as they sound incredible.


----------



## Hapster

ryanr1987 said:


> I only noticed it with ceetain songs but there is def a roll off in the sub bass that makes me wish ot had the HE400's bass. If you still have the LCD2 then I doubt you would be too impressed. Still I suppose it's good to experience as much as possible.
> 
> Since you like mids and bass try the Focal Spirit classic if you feel like venturing into closed. Great mids! Like liquid gold and great bass. If it wasn't for the tight fit that irritated my piercings I would of kept them as they sound incredible.




*cough* your opinion.

I owned the FSC for a time and couldn't believe it was so expensive, it sounded like a cheap generic headphone ($30?)), luckily I flipped it for a profit.


----------



## Stillhart

hapster said:


> *cough* your opinion.
> 
> I owned the FSC for a time and couldn't believe it was so expensive, it sounded like a cheap generic headphone ($30?)), luckily I flipped it for a profit.


 
  
 Tyll seems to think it's about as reference as reference gets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Graphs only paint a small picture.

Have you seen the D7000's graphs? Yet, no one can ever contest how massive the sub bass is on the D7000.

Same as the Urbanite On Ear. The Bass and mids are like a perfectly straight line, yet the Urbanite has some very, very strong bass (though mids stay just as forward).

I have heard it all the time: The 400i's bass just isn't going to win any favors from people who like some good energy in their bass. People can justify it all day, it won't make it any less true. Plent of people stating it's thinner, and considerably less impactful than the 400. That was enough for me to dismiss it entirely. I'm sure it's a wonderful sounding headphone. However, I have a certain threshold for bass, and if it's under that, I don't wanna spend any money on that as a main headphone, especially not $500.


I certainly DON'T want reference. Reference bores me. I like my headphones warm, and lively. In fact, the Fidelio X2 could've used a little more warmth, and less treble up top for my personal preference. Hopefully if the X3 ever comes out, it will fall in between the X1 and X2 in tonality. The X1 was a bit sloppy in the bass to mid transition, and the X2 is a bit dry for MY personal preference, though it otherwise has a very favorable sound.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Graphs only paint a small picture.
> 
> Have you seen the D7000's graphs? Yet, no one can ever contest how massive the sub bass is on the D7000.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Idk, I've heard the D7000 and the TH900/600 and they do have deep subbass, but I've seen them as having more of an impact (which the graphs do reflect.)
  
 What graphs have you seen on the Urbanite though? The square wave and the FR graph both show it having a huge amount bass.
  
 I completely understand your opinion though. The HE400 does have more substantial bass than the HE400i, but I never really saw it as huge difference due to the mids. However, I cannot reasonably say that they have less bass than the K712 though. That was more the point I was trying to make and just used the graphs to back that up. The HE400i is FAR from reference though (as it a warm, mid-forward headphone.) And believe me, I completely understand not wanting reference/TOO neutral, as that is why I ultimately couldn't keep the HD598, the HE560, or the Alpha Dogs (though I've been told my pair was probably defective.)
  
 On a side note, I did have the TH600 recently. I tried enjoying it, but it is not the successor to the D7000 that everyone keeps talking it up as and, ultimately, it kinda is very boring and dry. That's why I can't jump on the TH900 bandwagon. You MIGHT like the ZMF Vibros though. Mine are suppose to arrive in and a half, so I'll post something about them.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't need strong bass on the 400i. That's not what I was expecting nor looking for. I actually don't know what I was hoping for, just bought them out of impulse because of the ridiculous low price I was offered for a brand new pair.

Because of its linear bass and forward mids, it's not an all rounder like the K712/Annie/K7XX. Ultimately, I will be keeping it for when I'm in the mood for some beautiful vocals. It's something I've never had in my headphone collection. It compliments my bassy 1540 extremely well, with the K7XX sitting in between as my all rounder for gaming/movies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think the D7000 is that impactful at all. It was all sub bass rumble. Actually felt the mid bass punch to be well controlled. Certainly did not sound like what the graphs imply to me, at all. I feel the D7000 sounds like what the TH900 graphs look like.

And FWIH, the TH900 has more in common with the D7000 than the TH600.

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID%5B%5D=3841&graphID%5B%5D=283

The D7000 doesn't sound like that at all. That TH900 graph though, yes, that is the D7000 sound to me.


----------



## Change is Good

So, I ended up listing my Destiny Limited Edition in the Music/Videos classifieds. I'm not even waiting for House of Wolves... lol


----------



## Ryanr1987

hapster said:


> *cough* your opinion.
> 
> I owned the FSC for a time and couldn't believe it was so expensive, it sounded like a cheap generic headphone ($30?)), luckily I flipped it for a profit.


You are probably the only one in the world who thinks that lol everyone whos listened to mine has said they are perfect apart from the fit.

They are so lush with great impact! Perfect mids for a closed phone. If they didn't irritate my piercings they would be end game in the closed department.

I now have the Nad HP50 for the 2nd time which are also phenomenal! Bit more airy and delicate sounding than the FSC.

When people bring up the D7000 it makes me sad that I won't ever own it again without spending a ton. The D5000 + D7000 were my fav closed backs; I would love to hear them bow as my taste has changed to a more warm and lush sound in the last few years.


----------



## Sam21

Where can I buy a pair of K712 pro pads for my K702 ?


----------



## Change is Good

AKG spare parts department. The number should be listed on their support page.


----------



## Sam21

I have a few questions:
  
 (1) Does K7xx have K712 pads or K702 annie pads ?
  
 (2) K702+K712pads sounds like K712 ? or the annie ?
  
 (3) are the headphone drivers the same in K712/K702 annie/K702/Q701 ? Only the pads are different ?


----------



## Ryanr1987

The pads on my K7XX are a tad compressed compared to K712 but are similar, basically the same just mine are smaller. The K702 with K712 pads sounds horrible unless you put the K712 foam in and then they sound close. The K712 is closer to the K701 and K702 than it is to the Q701.
  
 The base of the drivers are the same but the Q701 and K712 have slight differences..All is subtle.


----------



## Sam21

ryanr1987 said:


> The pads on my K7XX are a tad compressed compared to K712 but are similar, basically the same just mine are smaller. The K702 with K712 pads sounds horrible unless you put *the K712 foam* in and then they sound close. The K712 is closer to the K701 and K702 than it is to the Q701.
> 
> The base of the drivers are the same but the Q701 and K712 have slight differences..All is subtle.


 
  
 what do you mean by the K712 foam ?


----------



## Ryanr1987

The K712's foam ring is slightly different to the others. When I put the Q701 foam in my K712 it lost some bass impact and warmth.


----------



## Sam21

which part is the foam you are refering to ? you mean the foam inside the cups ?


----------



## Ryanr1987

The foam ring when you remove the ear pads.


----------



## Sam21

you mean number 18 in this pdf ? 
  
www.akg.com/media/media/download/9352
  
 Also, do you know how much the earpads+foam ring cost ?
  
 many thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Received the Custom One Pro Plus from Beyerdynamic today. First impressions is that, I absolutely lovee their headband (holy comfy cushion Batman!). SO much better than the headbands used on either Pro/Premium DT770/880/990/T70 lines.

Haven't had much real time with them other than nothing how comfy they are (still wish they had included DT770 velours in the package, though the pleather is super soft and comfy).

The included audio cable seems to be defective (cuts off on the left channel with both my phone and my E17). It does come with a cable with an inline mic, but I'm just using the custom cable Kamakahah gave me for the X1 ages ago. Regular cables will fit the COP = V-moda Boompro will work).

I haven't listened to it much but first impressions:

Warm, clear mid range (*OMG upfront midrange from Beyer!*), smooth treble

Bass sliders are completely functional, and not as overwhelming as I believed. Bass slider on 1 (no ports open) = zero bass. I don't think ANYONE will use this. Bass slider 2 and 3 are very, very similar, and how I feel everyone will use the COP. I'll need more time to see just how different they are, though it's definitely subtle. Bass slider 4, I expected overwhelming bass, but I don't hear all that much of a boost compared to 3. I'll need more testing, but it does sound a bit sloppier, not overly emphasized.

What I like is that the bass sliders seem to affect sub bass more than mid bass, which makes me happy, as I'm a sub bass kind of guy, and don't mind a reigned in mid bass.

The COP seems to be good for long period use. No real ear fatigue, in terms of it's tonality.

Super early verdict: I like their sound and comfort. It doesn't seem to be as energetic as the M50 or CAL in terms of splashy treble, so while the other two may sound more engaging (based off memory), I really like the softer nature of the COP for longer period use.

Oh yes, it actually demands just a hint more volume than the X2, if that means anything. The COP is known to be absurdly easy to drive, which lets you know the X2 isn't demanding.


----------



## Stillhart

I actually quite liked the COP when I demoed it briefly at CES.  More than any of the other Beyers I tried other than the T1, for sure.  It definitely felt much more cheaply constructed (like cheap plastic), but the sound was solid.  Looking forward to hearing more of your impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The construction is actually VERY solid. The arms and headband are the exact same metal as the Beyers 770/880/990/T70, meaning, rugged as all hell.

You would literally have to be an absolute clumsy person to break these.

I haven't listened to them for long, but I can already say that their signature is already much more appealing to me than the all the other Beyers I've reviewed. This is not to say it's technically better than the rest. I'm referring to subjective preference of tonal balance. It is a REALLY easy headphone to get into from first listen with nothing that sticks out like a sore thumb, like the treble happens to be on all the other Byeres I've reviewed.


These are early impressions, so I'll dial in what's good and bad later. Just, I can tell these are winners.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> The construction is actually VERY solid. The arms and headband are the exact same metal as the Beyers 770/880/990/T70, meaning, rugged as all hell.
> 
> You would literally have to be an absolute clumsy person to break these.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You said you have the COP Plus?  Is that a new version?  Maybe they improved the materials...?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The COP Plus is the same as the old one. All they changed was that they included all the extrta goodies like 16 speaker tags, and the extra mic cable.


And even before, you could still see that the COP used the same basic headband and arms as the other Beyers mentioned. It literally looks like a DT770 Pro 80, with a different outer cup, and pleather pads, and velcro headband cushion instead of the snap on one.


----------



## Stillhart

Weird.  I definitely remember at least the cups feeling super plasticy.  *shrug*  Either way, I'm fine with it.  Like I said, I enjoyed the sound as well so yeah.  Curious how they are for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I expect soundstage to be smaller than the 770/80 due to considerably less treble, and now that the mids are kinda forward, there is no extra sense of space due to mid recessio like the 770. So probably not as good for gaming. It's a more upfront sound in general.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Received the Custom One Pro Plus from Beyerdynamic today. First impressions is that, I absolutely lovee their headband (holy comfy cushion Batman!). SO much better than the headbands used on either Pro/Premium DT770/880/990/T70 lines.
> 
> Haven't had much real time with them other than nothing how comfy they are (still wish they had included DT770 velours in the package, though the pleather is super soft and comfy).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Huh....No wonder the first edition of the COPs are discontinued and are in being cleared out. From what you have said, it seems like Beyer heard the community and fixed the cons the first COPs had.

 Good thing I held back from buying a a Brand new COP for 130 bucks.
  
 Wonder how it fares with the DT770 in terms of gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure nothing was changed as far the COP itself goes. I remember reading it's the same exact headphone, just with more goodies in the package.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Swapped the COP pads for the Shure 1840 velours that I cut out the inner screen on (which are leaky and not made for closed headphones at all), and I was surprised to find that the COP sounds very good with the pads, and the bass isn't sucked out. Definitely more of a dry sound, but still very enjoyable, and not trebly at all (which tends to happen with these pads). The subbass is definitely reduced by a lot but the mid bass is still pretty present, and the midrange is very clean with the pads.

Makes me wonder how good the COP would sound with 1540 pads, and the 770 velours. Only problem being that the Shure pads have their own inner screen, and I'm not sure I'd butcher the 15450 pads to mimic Beyer pads.

Back to stock pads we go.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I can confidently confirm that the alcantara pads do add enough bass to match and maybe surpass the K7XX at the expense of soundstage, treble, and mids. I like how it sounds, but quite frankly I always grab the SRH1540 for any bass genres. I'm keeping the stock pads on the 400i for a more reference sound.


----------



## Stillhart

Well I finally got a chance to compare the K7XX to my Q701 (with bass mod)!
  
 Short version:  Q has a bit more soundstage and an airier presentation.  K is warmer/more intimate, more refined and slightly better bass.  
  
 They're very similar, but for gaming the Q has the edge.  The K is definitely a better all-arounder though; it gives up a teeny bit in one area to gain more in other areas.  It's a great tradeoff unless pure gaming is your goal.
  
 The K reminds me of the X1 actually, but with better bass... so maybe the X2?
  
 So yeah, I don't think I'll be upgrading from the Q's for my gaming cans.


----------



## Evshrug

Fun to read activity guys, been busy with sick and girlfriend and house, but good to have stuff to read!

Mad, thanks a ton, it's truely an honor!
The COP+ sounds pretty cool. Someday we should find a way for you to borrow my X7 for funzies.


----------



## Decimator

Recently bought the X2 and fairly enjoy it but already thinking about upgrading. Looking for an open headphone with a similar sound signature to the X2 but maybe a little warmer, X2 doesn't have enough bass for me. I would be using it for gaming primarily so soundstage and detail are important. Immersion is great but I want it to be a fairly competitive headphone at the same time. Any reccomendations of current or upcoming headphones? Would like to stay under $800, but willing to save up for options that offer better performance.


----------



## PacoTaco

decimator said:


> Recently bought the X2 and fairly enjoy it but already thinking about upgrading. Looking for an open headphone with a similar sound signature to the X2 but maybe a little warmer, X2 doesn't have enough bass for me. I would be using it for gaming primarily so soundstage and detail are important. Immersion is great but I want it to be a fairly competitive headphone at the same time. Any reccomendations of current or upcoming headphones? Would like to stay under $800, but willing to save up for options that offer better performance.


 
  
 At your price point, you have a couple of options.
  
 The best competitive headphone period in the 800$ range is a used Beyerdynamic T1. It only has a slightly smaller soundstage than the HD800, but arguably as much detail and better directional accuracy. It's super comfortable, and looks quite cool and slick. The T90 is also another good option, as it is, from what I remember, ~90% the same as the T1. Just don't do the T70.
  
 Another options, if you want something warmer than that, is the HE560. It's soundstage isn't the biggest (certainly a lot bigger than most headphones though) and it can sound dry sometimes. But that bass and mids are very linear. I recommend purchasing from Razordog Audio on ebay (they have it for $700).
  
 The third options is the least likely, but the new EL-8 is coming out, and that should have the Audeze warmth in spades. It comes out in March, and is $700.
  
 The closest to the X2's sound, but not quite there (and some people will debate this) is the TH600. It's closed, but it has a fairly large soundstage (the largest of the closed headphones behind the TH900,) a lot of warmth, and the X2's fun. It'll run you anywhere from 450$ to 800$.
  
 The X2 is pretty unique in its sound, so you may never find something like it.


----------



## Stillhart

Just because you have a big budget, doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it to get what you want.  Have you tried the X1?  It's very similar to the X2 but with more bass.  It's also generally accepted to be a great gaming can.
  
 You might also try a Sennheiser HD700.  If you can deal with the treble spike, they make a fantastic gaming can.  They were on crazy sale around BF so there are some cheap ones floating around the classifieds.
  
 Also, just want to throw out there not to get your hopes up on the EL-8.  Unless they make some major tuning changes from what I heard at CES, that thing is going to bomb horribly.  Or at least drop in price fairly rapidly.  It's not a BAD can, but it's nowhere near a $700 can.  The HE-560 blows it out of the water and, as noted, can be found for around $700 if you know where to look.


----------



## Hapster

ryanr1987 said:


> You are probably the only one in the world who thinks that lol everyone whos listened to mine has said they are perfect apart from the fit.
> 
> They are so lush with great impact! Perfect mids for a closed phone. If they didn't irritate my piercings they would be end game in the closed department.
> 
> ...


it probably had a lot to do with the tiny sound stage which causes the seperation to suffer as well, lack of sub bass, and yes they weren't totally comfortable either. The entire headphone was made of a creaky plastic, $30 might be a bit low but they just didn't strike me as being the same quality of the Philips Fidelio x2 or the Mad Dogs.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Just because you have a big budget, doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it to get what you want.  Have you tried the X1?  It's very similar to the X2 but with more bass.  It's also generally accepted to be a great gaming can.
> 
> You might also try a Sennheiser HD700.  If you can deal with the treble spike, they make a fantastic gaming can.  They were on crazy sale around BF so there are some cheap ones floating around the classifieds.
> 
> Also, just want to throw out there not to get your hopes up on the EL-8.  Unless they make some major tuning changes from what I heard at CES, that thing is going to bomb horribly.  Or at least drop in price fairly rapidly.  It's not a BAD can, but it's nowhere near a $700 can.  The HE-560 blows it out of the water and, as noted, can be found for around $700 if you know where to look.


 

 Haha, when someone throws me a max number, I'm going to give suggestions that reach it. Especially since he mentioned upgrade, and the X1 would be more of a side-grade. I never can recommend the X1 due to the non-changeable pads issue and the fact it's very hard to fit on large heads.
  
 Though, no disrespect, I'm not sure the HD700 is good for him. I mean, the headphone is not exactly warm, much less warmer than the X2.
  
 And I'm not 100% sure, but I keep hearing a lot of good things about it lately as opposed to what I heard at CES. It's apparently better than the LCD 2.2f. Of course, that could be a load of horse ****, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Audeze did say they were fixing a lot of things with it (like the clamp.)


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Haha, when someone throws me a max number, I'm going to give suggestions that reach it. Especially since he mentioned upgrade, and the X1 would be more of a side-grade. I never can recommend the X1 due to the non-changeable pads issue and the fact it's very hard to fit on large heads.
> 
> Though, no disrespect, I'm not sure the HD700 is good for him. I mean, the headphone is not exactly warm, much less warmer than the X2.
> 
> And I'm not 100% sure, but I keep hearing a lot of good things about it lately as opposed to what I heard at CES. It's apparently better than the LCD 2.2f. Of course, that could be a load of horse ****, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Audeze did say they were fixing a lot of things with it (like the clamp.)


 
  
 Re the X1, I only mention is because he says he really liked the sound of the X2 just wants more bass.  That's pretty much the description of the X1.  For his budget, he can replace the whole headphone if the pads ever get that bad.  So far, I've never used a headphone enough to need to replace the pads.  *shrug*
  
 Re the HD700, the T1 isn't warm either...
  
 Have they sent revised versions of the EL-8 out for demo yet?  I unsubbed from the EL-8 thread because it was pretty pointless.  But if they've made changes already, I'm curious to see what people (besides Mercer) think.  FWIW, Tyll's impressions pretty much matched up with mine.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Re the X1, I only mention is because he says he really liked the sound of the X2 just wants more bass.  That's pretty much the description of the X1.  For his budget, he can replace the whole headphone if the pads ever get that bad.  So far, I've never used a headphone enough to need to replace the pads.  *shrug*
> 
> Re the HD700, the T1 isn't warm either...
> 
> Have they sent revised versions of the EL-8 out for demo yet?  I unsubbed from the EL-8 thread because it was pretty pointless.  But if they've made changes already, I'm curious to see what people (besides Mercer) think.  FWIW, Tyll's impressions pretty much matched up with mine.


 
  
 I may be slightly biased, as I did like the X1/X2's sound, but the comfort for my large head was just....arg. Another option may be a ZMF Vibro with the Blackwood's tuning, as Zach told me that makes bass more linear and the soundstage larger. Though, he's doing improvements to it constantly, so it may already be a lot more open than what I've been told/read. I'll know when they come in next week.
  
 If he wants to try it, he could look for a fazored LCD 2.2. Those are actually pretty good for surround sound, surprisingly. COD was awesome with it. Also depends on how sensitive he is to brightness. I couldn't game on the DT990 because everything in the high end sounded to fatiguing but the LCD 2 was just right.
  
 I may be a bit skewed, as I see the T1 as one of the least bright headphones of the open/semi open beyer's (as I could stand them for long periods of time compared to something like the T70P or DT880.) It's warmer than the HD700 at least, and maybe warmer than the X2. I don't know though, I've always considered "warm" to be an emphasis of bass and lower to middle mid-range. It is the best competitive headphone out there if you want something more enjoyable for immersion than the HD800 (but that's just my opinion.)
  
 I haven't been able to find Tyll's impressions. Do you have the link? I'm not asking out of a "I need proof," but as a geniune "I have been looking for it for weeks and couldn't find it and want to read it."


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He wants more bass than the X2. So many recommendations for headphones with LESS bass.

Just get the X1. You're not going to find open headphones with bass that strong, X2 was already very good in bass for an open headphone. If you want more bass, give up going with open headphones and choose from the million of closed headphones that do bass like nobody's business.

Bluntly speaking, because I tire of beating around the bush with things like this.

*GET A CLOSED HEADPHONE.*''

I say this, because I like my bass too. I nreally enjoy the low, never overwhelming bass on the Custom One Pro (with 2nd and 3rd slider positions). It's a reminder that open headphones just won't do bass quite like a closed headphone.

Makes me wanna hunt for a D7000 again. As well as trying it with the Shure 1540 pads. I swear, if the TH900 was under 1K, I'd impulse buy.


In fact, I may take up Philip's offer for a refund and risk the TH600. Of course, that means dealing with the horrible customer service.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> He wants more bass than the X2. So many recommendations for headphones with LESS bass.
> 
> Just get the X1. You're not going to find open headphones with bass that strong, X2 was already very good in bass for an open headphone. If you want more bass, give up going with open headphones and choose from the million of closed headphones that do bass like nobody's business.
> 
> ...


 

 You have a point. The HE560/T1 do have a hair more bass than the X2, but it isn't the focus or as apparent. It is a lot deeper though, which is why I think he'd like the overall warmer tone of those two. I do have a weird habit of forgetting that "more/quantity of" bass isn't the same thing as "deeper/quality" bass. The best open headphone for his tastes probably is the LCD 2. I'd recommend the HE400, but it does have less bass even though it is infinitely deeper in sub-bass.
  
 But yah, I agree with you, he isn't going to get much out of these unless he just gets a closed headphone. He MIGHT like the ZMF Vibros (you might actually like these, but I'm not 100%. They do have more bass than the K712, but not exactly Denon or LCD 2 level) or the Mad Dogs (which I forgot about and they do have more bass than the X2 but less open.)  His best bet is the TH600, as that is to the closed headphones as what the T1 is to open (as in, it is a semi-open headphone that is more closed than open and the T1 is a semi-open headphone that is more open than it is closed.)
  
 Also, how much lower do you want to go than $1000? I've seen some on here for $900. Razordog has them for 1050 right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOSTEX-TH-900-Premium-Reference-Headphone-AUTHORIZED-DEALER-/201294969255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ede1d79a7 . Honestly, I enjoyed the TH900 more than the TH600, but not as much as the D7000.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I keep comparing reviews and how the TH600 has like 98% the same sound as the D7000, just clearer and not as warm. That sounds fine, as the reviews say the bass is still epic and Fostex-like. That sounds plenty fine to me. I know you don't like them, but I'm betting I would.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I keep comparing reviews and how the TH600 has like 98% the same sound as the D7000, just clearer and not as warm. That sounds fine, as the reviews say the bass is still epic and Fostex-like. That sounds plenty fine to me. I know you don't like them, but I'm betting I would.


 
  
 I've always felt the clearer sound was from the axe to the lower and upper mids. I will admit it, the bass is a lot deeper on the TH600, but it isn't that continuous, awesome boom that the D7000 provides. I'm a bit biased though. I may end up trying them out again and grow to love them like I did with the HE560. The only two headphones I truly truly truly dislike and can't stand are the T70P and Alpha Primes (though this one was a gradual process of disliking them unlike the T70P which I almost packed and returned that same day.) I also factored in that the TH600 might not work with the genre's I listen to like Rock more than how it worked with my games. I forget that I'm suggesting a gaming headphone more than a music one.
  
 Depending on how large his head is, he might like the Blue MoFi. That headphone's sound was pretty awesome and warm. The downsides are the comfort sucks if your head is too large and it also sucks if your head is too small and you can't handle the weight. There's also the lack of changeable pads...awe screw it, axe that one too.


----------



## Decimator

First off, thanks for all of the input guys! The reason I put 800 as the budget is because I didn't want to limit the options. Im not saying I need to spend my whole budget but if I had to to get a substantial improvement over the X2, I'd be willing to. I honestly couldnt justify spending more than $1000 financially. I asked for open headphone recommendations because they typically have a better soundstage, to my understanding at least. As far as bass preference goes, I love sub-bass, the deeper the better. I'd like more quantity but not at the expense of quality. That said, I'd consider semi-closed or closed if that's the best route to go to get more bass quantity/quality as long as the soundstage and details are still pretty good.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> I may be slightly biased, as I did like the X1/X2's sound, but the comfort for my large head was just....arg. Another option may be a ZMF Vibro with the Blackwood's tuning, as Zach told me that makes bass more linear and the soundstage larger. Though, he's doing improvements to it constantly, so it may already be a lot more open than what I've been told/read. I'll know when they come in next week.
> 
> If he wants to try it, he could look for a fazored LCD 2.2. Those are actually pretty good for surround sound, surprisingly. COD was awesome with it. Also depends on how sensitive he is to brightness. I couldn't game on the DT990 because everything in the high end sounded to fatiguing but the LCD 2 was just right.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I don't know if I'm crazy or what, but the LCD-2f didn't do much for me in the bass department.  It has great quality bass but nothing special in the quantity.  The only reason it sounds warm is because the treble is relatively recessed, giving the bass focus (instead of the usual beefed up bass.
  
 And yes, while the T1 is certainly the least bright Beyer I've heard, that doesn't make it warm.  The majority of the Beyers sound terrible *to me* because of the crazy treble.  The T1 is a lot more neutral than those, making it listenable.  But I wouldn't call it warm.
  
 Tyll's writeup on the EL-8:  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2015-audeze-introduces-new-el-8-open-and-sealed-planar-magnetic-headphones
  
 Personally, I think he was being very diplomatic with his feedback.  lol


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> I don't know if I'm crazy or what, but the LCD-2f didn't do much for me in the bass department.  It has great quality bass but nothing special in the quantity.  The only reason it sounds warm is because the treble is relatively recessed, giving the bass focus (instead of the usual beefed up bass.
> 
> And yes, while the T1 is certainly the least bright Beyer I've heard, that doesn't make it warm.  The majority of the Beyers sound terrible *to me* because of the crazy treble.  The T1 is a lot more neutral than those, making it listenable.  But I wouldn't call it warm.
> 
> ...


 

 Thank you, I'll have to read it now. As far as the LCD-2.2f, it is actually the least bassy of the iterations. The old one had a certain...quality to it. It was probably the most bassy open headphone outside the Abyss (at least, I think it was the Abyss.)


----------



## PacoTaco

Quote:


stillhart said:


> I don't know if I'm crazy or what, but the LCD-2f didn't do much for me in the bass department.  It has great quality bass but nothing special in the quantity.  The only reason it sounds warm is because the treble is relatively recessed, giving the bass focus (instead of the usual beefed up bass.
> 
> And yes, while the T1 is certainly the least bright Beyer I've heard, that doesn't make it warm.  The majority of the Beyers sound terrible *to me* because of the crazy treble.  The T1 is a lot more neutral than those, making it listenable.  But I wouldn't call it warm.
> 
> ...


 
  
 After reading it, I can now understand why it was delayed a month quietly. I believe Audeze can fix this...this is a new kind of planar they're trying to release and I can definitely see the potential in it. I'm not sold on the Amp at all though. That thing needs to be 400-500$ as opposed to $700.
  
 Like I said, I've always seen warm to mean bass and mid heavy.
  


decimator said:


> First off, thanks for all of the input guys! The reason I put 800 as the budget is because I didn't want to limit the options. Im not saying I need to spend my whole budget but if I had to to get a substantial improvement over the X2, I'd be willing to. I honestly couldnt justify spending more than $1000 financially. I asked for open headphone recommendations because they typically have a better soundstage, to my understanding at least. As far as bass preference goes, I love sub-bass, the deeper the better. I'd like more quantity but not at the expense of quality. That said, I'd consider semi-closed or closed if that's the best route to go to get more bass quantity/quality as long as the soundstage and details are still pretty good.


 
  
 You're welcome. If you love subbass, than you may want either a planar or a TH600. I dislike the TH600 due to the mids being axed, but you may love it for the bass/subbass. Other options are like the ZMF Vibros (which are deep and have a lot of bass,) the LCD 2 (the older models have more bass but the newer ones are more rounded out,) the HE560 (more punchy and deep/linear,) Alpha Dogs (the bass port helps, but YMMV on this headphone, as I found it too bright or boring,) or the X1 as MLE suggested. Planar magnetic headphones (like the hifiman, Audeze's, MrSpeakers, ZMF and Oppo headphones) have deeper and more balanced bass while dynamic headphones (everything else) can either be bass light or bass heavy, with only a couple really getting deep subbass.
  
 Your best bet, honestly, is the TH600. You retain the open-headphone-like soundstage, deep bass and large quantity bass, ect ect. I just personally have a hard time recommending it because I felt it didn't have much soul or depth to it.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> After reading it, I can now understand why it was delayed a month quietly. I believe Audeze can fix this...this is a new kind of planar they're trying to release and I can definitely see the potential in it. I'm not sold on the Amp at all though. That thing needs to be 400-500$ as opposed to $700.
> 
> Like I said, I've always seen warm to mean bass and mid heavy.


 
  
 Yeah, I think it definitely has potential, but there's also a LOT of hype around it.  People WANT it to sound good because they want a cheap, portable Audeze.  But it's harder to drive than the LCD-X (I noticed it, and Mercer confirmed), so not as portable in that sense.  It also doesn't sound anywhere near the LCD-2f, at least the version I heard.  I think it would be silly if it did, TBH, because why then would anyone buy the LCD-2 for $300 more? 
  
 I agree they can fix it if they want to.  I don't think they want to completely fix it.  I just want to caution people about the hype.  This isn't the HE-1000, which lives up to the hype and then some.  This is  $700 headphone that got mixed reactions and will be designed purposely to not compete with its big brother.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I think it definitely has potential, but there's also a LOT of hype around it.  People WANT it to sound good because they want a cheap, portable Audeze.  But it's harder to drive than the LCD-X (I noticed it, and Mercer confirmed), so not as portable in that sense.  It also doesn't sound anywhere near the LCD-2f, at least the version I heard.  I think it would be silly if it did, TBH, because why then would anyone buy the LCD-2 for $300 more?
> 
> I agree they can fix it if they want to.  I don't think they want to completely fix it.  I just want to caution people about the hype.  This isn't the HE-1000, which lives up to the hype and then some.  This is  $700 headphone that got mixed reactions and will be designed purposely to not compete with its big brother.


 

 Where are some HE1000 impressions? I haven't seen much and for some reason haven't gone near the HE1000 sub in fear of the hype thrusters going maximum and not getting a really really valid opinion. I might have to sell a kidney or two if it's as amazing as some people make it out to be.
  
 I don't know. I honestly think it would make more sense if they did end up making it sound better then the LCD 2.2f. Why? Because they could potentially sell so many that it would overshadow the LCD 2 sales they could have made had they kept the EL-8's sound inferior. Then they need to "de-revise" the LCD 2 back to the sound it had before the Fazor, as I cannot fathom why they changed it to begin with. While the fazor technically made it better, it kind of lost it's signature sound.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Where are some HE1000 impressions? I haven't seen much and for some reason haven't gone near the HE1000 sub in fear of the hype thrusters going maximum and not getting a really really valid opinion. I might have to sell a kidney or two if it's as amazing as some people make it out to be.
> 
> I don't know. I honestly think it would make more sense if they did end up making it sound better then the LCD 2.2f. Why? Because they could potentially sell so many that it would overshadow the LCD 2 sales they could have made had they kept the EL-8's sound inferior. Then they need to "de-revise" the LCD 2 back to the sound it had before the Fazor, as I cannot fathom why they changed it to begin with. While the fazor technically made it better, it kind of lost it's signature sound.


 
  
 I hate to say it, but it definitely IS the real deal.  I'm this close to selling my motorcycle to afford one...
  
 Jude (grain of salt as always):  http://www.head-fi.org/t/751094/head-fi-ces-2015-highlights#post_11229854
 Tyll:  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2015-show-highlight-hifiman-he-1000-planar-magnetic-headphones
 Assorted CES impressions linked in the first post:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/748334/hifiman-he1000-planar-dynamic-flagship
 More here from the NY meet after CES:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/751421/new-york-mini-meet-hifiman-he-1000-impressions-thread


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> I hate to say it, but it definitely IS the real deal.  I'm this close to selling my motorcycle to afford one...
> 
> Jude (grain of salt as always):  http://www.head-fi.org/t/751094/head-fi-ces-2015-highlights#post_11229854
> Tyll:  http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2015-show-highlight-hifiman-he-1000-planar-magnetic-headphones
> ...


 
 I was under the impression that it wouldn't cost more than the HE6...and if it did, it be more like a LCD 3 in price. That said, I don't know if I'm ready to spend THAT much money on a headphone. The Alpha Primes are the most expensive headphone I've bought (though, I've tried out others.)


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> I was under the impression that it wouldn't cost more than the HE6...and if it did, it be more like a LCD 3 in price. That said, I don't know if I'm ready to spend THAT much money on a headphone. The Alpha Primes are the most expensive headphone I've bought (though, I've tried out others.)


 
  
 There's been talk of pricing anywhere from $2k to $6k (for a special limited edition).  Right now, we just don't know.  But if it's priced at the LCD-3 level or below, they will sell a LOT of them, no matter what they look like.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> There's been talk of pricing anywhere from $2k to $6k (for a special limited edition).  Right now, we just don't know.  But if it's priced at the LCD-3 level or below, they will sell a LOT of them, no matter what they look like.


 
  
 If they're around the LCD-3 price range I'll be selling a bunch of stuff to get myself a set, no question.


----------



## PacoTaco

axelcloris said:


> If they're around the LCD-3 price range I'll be selling a bunch of stuff to get myself a set, no question.


 

 I may just save money every month until I can get them in 6 months. Honestly, I'd rather wait a couple months for the issues to be ironed out.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> I may just save money every month until I can get them in 6 months. Honestly, I'd rather wait a couple months for the issues to be ironed out.


 
 No release date at this point anyways, so start saving your pennies now!  lol
  
 Honestly, if I did consider the HE-1000, I'd have to listen to the Stax and such also before buying.  Similar price range, potentially.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> No release date at this point anyways, so start saving your pennies now!  lol
> 
> Honestly, if I did consider the HE-1000, I'd have to listen to the Stax and such also before buying.  Similar price range, potentially.


 
  
 After I saw what happens when an electrostatic driver malfunctions, I don't think I'll ever be comfortable owning one of those headphones.


----------



## PixelSkills

Has anyone used the tritton 720+ decoder box or does use it over astro? I read the review on here but I cant make up my mind because I hear there is a ton of hissing.. Why must there always be hissing in these things. I thought wired headsets shouldnt have a hiss..


----------



## Abula

I just received my AKG KXX and i really liking them, but they need some good amplification, so im search for a good SS amp for them, specially because i need another gain, my 5.1 setup needs like 10 times less gain, so a separate amp with its own volume/gain will help me keep both setups in same levels on the PC.  So if anyone has a good suggestion for a SS amp for the KXX, please let me know.


----------



## PacoTaco

abula said:


> I just received my AKG KXX and i really liking them, but they need some good amplification, so im search for a good SS amp for them, specially because i need another gain, my 5.1 setup needs like 10 times less gain, so a separate amp with its own volume/gain will help me keep both setups in same levels on the PC.  So if anyone has a good suggestion for a SS amp for the KXX, please let me know.


 
 An O2 or Magni 2 will work for you.


----------



## Stillhart

abula said:


> I just received my AKG KXX and i really liking them, but they need some good amplification, so im search for a good SS amp for them, specially because i need another gain, my 5.1 setup needs like 10 times less gain, so a separate amp with its own volume/gain will help me keep both setups in same levels on the PC.  So if anyone has a good suggestion for a SS amp for the KXX, please let me know.


 
 Pretty much any of the ones listed in the amp section of the guide.


----------



## motionzmedia

mad lust envy said:


> He wants more bass than the X2. So many recommendations for headphones with LESS bass.
> 
> Just get the X1. You're not going to find open headphones with bass that strong, X2 was already very good in bass for an open headphone. If you want more bass, give up going with open headphones and choose from the million of closed headphones that do bass like nobody's business.
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried Velour pads with the Custom One Pros? would these fit on them? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OM06RG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> He wants more bass than the X2. So many recommendations for headphones with LESS bass.
> 
> Just get the X1. You're not going to find open headphones with bass that strong, X2 was already very good in bass for an open headphone. If you want more bass, give up going with open headphones and choose from the million of closed headphones that do bass like nobody's business.
> 
> ...




I may just have to send you the 1540, after all.




pacotaco said:


> You have a point. The HE560/T1 do have a hair more bass than the X2, but it isn't the focus or as apparent. It is a lot deeper though, which is why I think he'd like the overall warmer tone of those two. I do have a weird habit of forgetting that "more/quantity of" bass isn't the same thing as "deeper/quality" bass. The best open headphone for his tastes probably is the LCD 2. I'd recommend the HE400, but it does have less bass even though it is infinitely deeper in sub-bass.
> 
> But yah, I agree with you, he isn't going to get much out of these unless he just gets a closed headphone. He MIGHT like the ZMF Vibros (you might actually like these, but I'm not 100%. They do have more bass than the K712, but not exactly Denon or LCD 2 level) or the Mad Dogs (which I forgot about and they do have more bass than the X2 but less open.)  His best bet is the TH600, as that is to the closed headphones as what the T1 is to open (as in, it is a semi-open headphone that is more closed than open and the T1 is a semi-open headphone that is more open than it is closed.)
> 
> Also, how much lower do you want to go than $1000? I've seen some on here for $900. Razordog has them for 1050 right now: http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOSTEX-TH-900-Premium-Reference-Headphone-AUTHORIZED-DEALER-/201294969255?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ede1d79a7 . Honestly, I enjoyed the TH900 more than the TH600, but not as much as the D7000.




Wait, how can the 560 have more bass than the X2, when (based off what I've read) it has less bass than the already lacking 400i? I currently have the 400i, and have heard the X2. The X2 clearly had more bass. How the 560 can beat it in quantity I don't see how...

Mad's right. The guy wants more bass, and people are recommending the wrong thing. The person needs to go closed, and go for something like the 1540, Z7, TH600, or 7520.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

motionzmedia said:


> Have you tried Velour pads with the Custom One Pros? would these fit on them? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005OM06RG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




Full velour is likely to negatively impact headphones that relybon pleather. I HIGHLY suggest the 1540 Alcantara pads instead, which are basically sealed like pleather/leatger, but with a velour like top. The pads are expensive, but well worth it.

If/when i return the X2 (tired of Philips lack of service, dont wanna risk my X2 messing up in the future even more and Philips not doing anything), I'm just gonna jump straight to the 1540. That will also benefit me by giving access to the 1540 pads when i review other headphones. The onpy potential problem is the screen on the 1540 pads is thick and may muffle headphones that dont typically have such a thick screen. I removed the screen on the 1840 pads i have, but i dont think i wanna do that to the 1540, especially since the 1540 itself needs it.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Wait, how can the 560 have more bass than the X2, when (based off what I've read) it has less bass than the *already lacking 400i*? I currently have the 400i, and have heard the X2. The X2 clearly had more bass. How the 560 can beat it in quantity I don't see how...
> 
> Mad's right. The guy wants more bass, and people are recommending the wrong thing. The person needs to go closed, and go for something like the 1540, Z7, TH600, or 7520.


 
  
 I'd argue that statement. But as we've noted before I like my bass a little bit tighter and faster than you and MLE. The 400i has very nice bass and once I finish the mods this week then it will be perfect (I hope).
  
 Now if someone said the 560 had better bass quality than the X2 I'd want to agree. But I haven't heard the X2, only the X1, so that's simply an assumption on my part.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I'd argue that statement. But as we've noted before I like my bass a little bit tighter and faster than you and MLE. The 400i has very nice bass and once I finish the mods this week then it will be perfect (I hope).
> 
> *Now if someone said the 560 had better bass quality than the X2 I'd want to agree.* But I haven't heard the X2, only the X1, so that's simply an assumption on my part.




Oh, no doubt will the 560 have better bass quality, I would assume. But, we are talking about quantity. The guy wants more bass than the X2, which is why I say suggestions like the 560 and T1 wouldn't be the best choices for his preference.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Oh, no doubt will the 560 have better bass quality, I would assume. But, we are talking about quantity. The guy wants more bass than the X2, which is why I say suggestions like the 560 and T1 wouldn't be the best choices for his preference.


 
  
 The T1 had less bass than the X1, so since the X2 is supposed to have improved upon the X1's bass I can assume that you're right.
  
 Mad Dogs and Mad Dog Primes are beasts when it comes to nice bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. No matter how quality bass is, there is a certain amount of presence and immediate impact that some of us want. Recommending headphones with less immediate impact than the X2 is... Not going to help.


----------



## PacoTaco

axelcloris said:


> I'd argue that statement. But as we've noted before I like my bass a little bit tighter and faster than you and MLE. The 400i has very nice bass and once I finish the mods this week then it will be perfect (I hope).
> 
> Now if someone said the 560 had better bass quality than the X2 I'd want to agree. But I haven't heard the X2, only the X1, so that's simply an assumption on my part.


 
  
 I admitted that I was mixing up sub-bass (quality) as "more bass" as opposed to mid-bass (quantity) being "more bass." Plus, my experiences maybe skewed due to using the bass mods on the HE560, which really gives it a lot more heft. Pre-fixing though, the HE560 has more bass than the HE400i (if just slightly) but it's not emphasized in the mid-bass like the HE400i is. The thing with the X2 is that the mid-bass is the most emphasized thing on that headphone (based on numbers anyway) and you'd have to turn the headphone louder to hear everything else, which makes that section (which is already louder than the rest of the frequencies) stand out. The HE560 is incredibly linear until you hit the upper-mids and so it isn't the main focus or standing out. The X2 does have a HAIR more mid-bass than the HE560, but it's based upon a fun sound and it achieves that pretty well.
  
 The T1 does, purely based on numbers anyway, does have more mid-bass than the X2 (as it is suppose to be a warm-ish headphone, but that can be debated) but it has the same issue as the HE560 in that it isn't emphasized. It's also accompanied by a 1425 ohm impedance hike, despite what most people say or claim, it doesn't seem to do well in the bass department unless you throw something like a Soloist (though that's too bright sometimes) or a Lyr/Valhalla (which it does very well with.)
  
 It's more of a "practical use isn't matching the actual numbers" kind of issue.


----------



## motionzmedia

mad lust envy said:


> Full velour is likely to negatively impact headphones that relybon pleather. I HIGHLY suggest the 1540 Alcantara pads instead, which are basically sealed like pleather/leatger, but with a velour like top. The pads are expensive, but well worth it.
> 
> If/when i return the X2 (tired of Philips lack of service, dont wanna risk my X2 messing up in the future even more and Philips not doing anything), I'm just gonna jump straight to the 1540. That will also benefit me by giving access to the 1540 pads when i review other headphones. The onpy potential problem is the screen on the 1540 pads is thick and may muffle headphones that dont typically have such a thick screen. I removed the screen on the 1840 pads i have, but i dont think i wanna do that to the 1540, especially since the 1540 itself needs it.


 
 Before i pull the trigger and buy them one last question, how do those pads compare to these http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007VCKA64/, asking since i heard these were better than the ones i recommended you, however don't know if they are better than the ones you recommended.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 770 velours will probably pair up very well with the COP, and you won't have to butcher them compared to the 1540 pads. Honestly, it's a safer choice. I only mentioned the 1540, forgetting about it's thick screen. I don't think you wanna spend $40 to then cut off the screen, and that won't guarantee it pairs up well with the COP. The 770 pads probably well, and if they don't, you could just return them.


----------



## Stillhart

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/incisive-audio-technica-ath-msr7-page-2
  
 Interesting review here.  Sounds like it might make for a good closed gaming can.  It also MAY work with the Boompro...


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> Oh, no doubt will the 560 have better bass quality, I would assume. But, we are talking about quantity. The guy wants more bass than the X2, which is why I say suggestions like the 560 and T1 wouldn't be the best choices for his preference.


 
  
 He did say he wanted deep bass but still use it competitively. In which case, the TH900/D7000 is his only real choice. If he wants to sacrifice a small bit of bass quantity, planars are pretty good for competitive gaming (as they're very very detailed.) By then, he could just search for a used LCD 2.2.


----------



## Evshrug

I wonder if "he" is still reading... So much back and forth (such bass passion!) that I forgot who asked the question.

If a question takes on a life of it's own, I huess that's a cool thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the chance to review a TH600... but with a specific aftermarket cable. I declined. I can't in all honesty review a product influenced by another product, and expect to say things about the cable. Not just because i don't believe in cables (i feel cable changes have more to do with their resistance values more than anything else), but becausebof expectation bias, and the like.

Stock or bust. That's the only way I'll review a product, unless it's something simple like a pad swap. The Alpha Dog and Mad Dogs are essentially their own headphones, so I dont see them as modded T50RPs. They aren't indicative of the T50RP's sound.


----------



## Change is Good

Only 3 days left for the final drop of "First Edition" K7XXs from Massdrop.


----------



## Abula

pacotaco said:


> An O2 or Magni 2 will work for you.


 
 Thanks for the suggestion, i ordered a Magni 2, hope it can drive the KXX, on paper they don't seem that demanding, but in reality i find one of the hardest to drive headphones i have used, at least to the levels where i like to hear my music and games.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> If/when i return the X2 (tired of Philips lack of service, dont wanna risk my X2 messing up in the future even more and Philips not doing anything), I'm just gonna jump straight to the 1540. That will also benefit me by giving access to the 1540 pads when i review other headphones. The onpy potential problem is the screen on the 1540 pads is thick and may muffle headphones that dont typically have such a thick screen. I removed the screen on the 1840 pads i have, but i dont think i wanna do that to the 1540, especially since the 1540 itself needs it.


  
 Do you think the 1540 has more bass than the Ultrasone Pro 900? Till today they are the most fun headphones i have used.


----------



## PacoTaco

abula said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, i ordered a Magni 2, hope it can drive the KXX, on paper they don't seem that demanding, but in reality i find one of the hardest to drive headphones i have used, at least to the levels where i like to hear my music and games.


 
 It's hard to drive due to its inefficiency. Well, hard to drive compared to most headphones in its pricerange. Sure, people will say it can be driven my a phone, but it clips pretty bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I don't think the 1540 has more bass than the Pro 900. The Pro 900 is almost entirely all mid bass. There are very few headphones that will keep up in terms of how much mid bass the Pro 900 has. The Shure 1540 should however be MUCH more balanced, while still maintaining excellent bass (it is still heavy on bass). Not many people would choose the Pro 900 unless they are pure bassheads. I certainly wouldn't. They are a one trick pony. All bass, bad mids and very metallic, artificial treble. Quite good for immersive gaming, which is the only thing I like using them for.


----------



## Decimator

evshrug said:


> I wonder if "he" is still reading... So much back and forth (such bass passion!) that I forgot who asked the question.
> 
> If a question takes on a life of it's own, I huess that's a cool thing.


 Still reading  I'm just taking in all your inputs


----------



## PixelSkills

Does the tritton decoder box have more power then astro mixamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

None of those decoders are going to trump one another in terms of raw power. You want power, you get an amp, simple as that. The DSS is the strongest of the cheap gaming decoders, IIRC. Or just bypass all those headaches and just get an X7.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> None of those decoders are going to trump one another in terms of raw power. You want power, you get an amp, simple as that. The DSS is the strongest of the cheap gaming decoders, IIRC. Or just bypass all those headaches and just get an X7.




Right. From my experience, with ?? around non-experience conjecture from reading reviews I trust, here's how I'd rank raw power output:
Recon3D USB < ?Mixamp (no chat)? ~=~ ?AX720? < Mixamp 5.8 < DSS << X7

How I'd rank background noise/hiss (less is better):
X7 < Recon 3D USB < DSS < Mixamp < Mixamp 5.8


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The AX720 has more hiss than the Mixamp 5.8. AT least the old one did. Don't know about the new one.


BTW guys...




Splurged on the 1540, since I wanted to return the X2 to Philips since I don't wanna deal with their BS customer service. That being said, I've been having a hell of a love affair with the X2 lately, I may just end up risking it and keeping it.

To my surprise (and not doing my homework), I see the 1540 comes with an EXTRA pair of alcantara pads.

Of course, I planned on testing them out with the Custom One Pros, and the results are interesting. The COP does sound pretty good with the pads, and MUUUUUCH more comfortable. It's a little darker and more bassy, easily offset by reducing my preferred slider 3 position to the less bassy slider 2. The COP with Alcantara pads are still bassy, but I'd say whatever sacrifices I'm making to the SQ (haven't compared much, since I literally just put them on like 15 minutes ago), I think is worth it for the comfort boost. The alcantara pads seal incredibly well, so I'd say if I cut off the screen on the pads, it'd make the COP sound near stock with the alcantara pads. I don't wanna commit to a pad mod right now though, especially when the COP is just for reviewing purposes. I can almost guarantee the cut off screen Alcantaras will be a very good match for the COP.

The 1540 pads are easily the best pads for closed headphone alternatives, since they behave like pleather pads, sonically.

Can I say, the Custom One Pro looks INCREDIBLY sexy with the 1540 pads. I mean, yum.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv76KvFV748[/VIDEO]

Heard this through the 1540, and I'm absolutely sold. They sound open, dynamic, and DAT bass.

I love the song off my X2 as well. 

This is gonna be hard.

Btw, if I owned the Custom One Pro for myself, I would definitely invest in the 1540 pads and cut the screen. Just saying. It's worth the risk. I say this because the 1540 pads have a thick screen. The COP already has a screen built right onto the driver/cups, so an extra layer is just slightly muffling the sound, which is why I say the 1540 pads without the screen = good for the COP.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Heard this through the 1540, and I'm absolutely sold. They sound open, dynamic, and DAT bass.
> 
> I love the song off my X2 as well.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds awesome with my CAL as well 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 I can also hear the deep subbas sometimes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah, but you all know I love the CAL.


----------



## Change is Good

I'll make sure to check out that song on my desk rig when I get home. Glad you likin'dem 1540s, meng!


----------



## rudyae86

That song sounds really good with the x1 and or the x2. Boy do I miss my x1 .

The shore 1540 Has me interested though.

Hmmm...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly, the 1540 = a closed X1 with more refinement.

One thing to note: I don't like how it sounds directly off my phone. I feel they definitely improve just off the E17. That's not common for me, as I don't feel most sensitive headphones change all THAT much. Perhaps just a bad match with whatever the Nexus 6 is using.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, the 1540 = a closed X1 with more refinement.
> 
> One thing to note: I don't like how it sounds directly off my phone. I feel they definitely improve just off the E17. That's not common for me, as I don't feel most sensitive headphones change all THAT much. Perhaps just a bad match with whatever the Nexus 6 is using.




I don't like how it sounds of my portable sources, either. I mean, it's acceptable with the F887 because mayeb it's a dedicated DAP. It really scales best when properly amped, though.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, the 1540 = a closed X1 with more refinement.
> 
> One thing to note: I don't like how it sounds directly off my phone. I feel they definitely improve just off the E17. That's not common for me, as I don't feel most sensitive headphones change all THAT much. Perhaps just a bad match with whatever the Nexus 6 is using.


 
 Would that mean Ill retire my M50, since I use it more for EDM? hmmmmm


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Would that mean Ill retire my M50, since I use it more for EDM? hmmmmm




One over the other? Definitely.

Not necessarily a bad thing to keep both, though, because the m50x is a great portable beater to have as an alternate. That said, I had to return mine because of my 400i purchase.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the 1540 and M50x will clash, both being a little v shaped. The 1540 is definitely better, though as Change said, the M50x will be a better choice if portablenuse is a must. Not only does the 1540 not sound too great unamped, its pretty rigid in construction with no real swivel, little pivoting, and no folding capability. It's a stricyly home use headphone.

I bet the M50x would sound swell with the 1540 pads though. Change did you get to test that?


----------



## Change is Good

Didn't like the result. It lost isolation which made it brighter than it already is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ah, I forgot how well the M50 pads tend to seal. Like a pressure chamber effect. I can see a loss of isolation happening with the 1540 pads, for sure. They seal well, but not M50 well.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I notice that you and I are the only regulars that post when we start talking about bass. That good ol' bloated, muddy, bleeding into the mids... BASS!

Hehehe...


----------



## calpis

I'm going to have to test run some 1540s...


----------



## Change is Good

calpis said:


> I'm going to have to test run some 1540s...




My apologies calpis. I forgot bass is what brings you out from the bat cave.


----------



## Kamakahah

I've tried the m50 with Beyer velour, braimwavz pleather and velour pads, the way they affect seal and/or isolation level makes the m50 sound pretty bad, IMO. The sound thins, there is a noticeable loss in bass quality, impact, etc. 
In other words, the good qualities get boned without any noticeable benefits other than much better comfort. That's with melon though. 

Maybe those pads will be an exception.


----------



## calpis

change is good said:


> My apologies calpis. I forgot bass is what brings you out from the bat cave.


 
 Blame the bass gods.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> My apologies calpis. I forgot bass is what brings you out from the bat cave.




Hahaha, Calpis, our elusive, resident basspert.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I almost kind of want COPs for myself to use with gutted 1540 pads. I really, REALLY like that headphone for the price. I mean, they STILL sounded decent with leaky as hell, no isolation 1840 pads. You would've thought a headphone that closed would become harsh as hell, metallic piles of rubbish.

beyer did right with that bass adjustment business. Hopefully they continue with that in the future, with better drivers.


----------



## calpis

I'm curious if the 1540 could pull me away from my "bass modded" 2900. I will find a way to budget $500 for them, tax return maybe.
  
 How's the heat with the 1540? Summer is coming up.


----------



## Change is Good

$400 from the right authorized seller on eBay who is accepting best offers, fwih.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> I'm curious if the 1540 could pull me away from my "bass modded" 2900. I will find a way to budget $500 for them, tax return maybe.
> 
> How's the heat with the 1540? Summer is coming up.




It's not as cool as the Pro 900 or velour padded closed headphones. The Alcantara pads are actually lined with pleather on the inner wall, which is why I believe they sound so much like pleather pads.

So, time will tell, but I'd stll keep an open headphone. They are definitely a lot cooler than the COP though.

To be honest, I have a hard time justifying $400-500 for them, but they are a niche. I'd say I'd think they'd be best at around $350.

As for Ebay sellers, I looked at Shure's authorized list, and those 'authorized' sellers on Ebay aren't on the list, which is why I just played it safe and bought it on Amazon. Imagine if I had bought the X2 off a non-dealer. Nightmare even worse than the one I have now.

Expensive headphones are something i would pay extra to make sure I have a fix for them in case something goes wrong.

I guess you could probably buy one of thise ebay headphones with a long squaretrade warranty though. Probably cheaper than Amazon, and with a much longer warranty.


----------



## calpis

I keep telling myself that I'll pick up the TH600 but then I envision hot California summers. I'm still waiting for Ultrasone to announce something to the affect of a new line of PROS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I was actually going to justify a b stock TH900 for myself, but I honestly knew I would always complain about the pads, which was I decided on just going the safe route with the 1540.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I was actually going to justify a b stock TH900 for myself, but I honestly knew I would always complain about the pads, which was I decided on just going the safe route with the 1540.


 
 Have you tried the pads? That was the one thing I couldn't complain about with that headphone. They kind floated on your head. That and pleather isn't true pleather...it's some organic eggshell protein crap or something. It doesn't degrade like pleather and doesn't get as hot. Then again, take that with a grain of salt as I live in the mid-west and not the south anymore.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like any kind of leather, whether pleather, leather, lambskin. Pretty sure eggshell membrane isn't gonna change that. I'm all about cloth pads.


----------



## Abula

Hey mad, is your mixamp good enough for the 1540? i mean for X1 i felt it was well enough, just wondering if 1540 requires more power or the mixamps do the trick.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Imagine if I had bought the X2 off a non-dealer. Nightmare even worse than the one I have now.


 
  
 Have you yet specified what's going on with your X2 that's causing you to drop hints about the terrible service?  Is it something we should be worried about when considering getting one?


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I don't like any kind of leather, whether pleather, leather, lambskin. Pretty sure eggshell membrane isn't gonna change that. I'm all about cloth pads


 
  
 Oh yah, I forgot it went past just pleather. Makes me wonder if it's possible to mod or switch out those pads. I'll have to see as it depends on how much like my Vibros.
  
 On a side note, the EL-8 looks promising. Its current FR graph looks like the LCD 2.2f.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Oh yah, I forgot it went past just pleather. Makes me wonder if it's possible to mod or switch out those pads. I'll have to see as it depends on how much like my Vibros.
> 
> On a side note, the EL-8 looks promising. Its current FR graph looks like the LCD 2.2f.


 
  
 Have they released new info on revisions since CES?


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Have they released new info on revisions since CES?


 

 Their tumblr had a picture of a new FR graph, but that was 2 weeks. Seeing as they also delayed it around that time, they could be making further revisions/fine tuning.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Their tumblr had a picture of a new FR graph, but that was 2 weeks. Seeing as they also delayed it around that time, they could be making further revisions/fine tuning.


 
  
 Oh, their tumblr?  Yeah, I'll wait for a third-party measurement.  lol  Like I said, I heard a version that didn't sound very good like a $700 headphone so I'm curious to see what happens after the fine tuning.  
  
 When I hear people saying "the EL-8 looks promising" I always wonder where they're getting that info from, since 1st person accounts from CES are pretty mixed.  Folks like Mike Mercer are just creaming themselves over it and then you have folks like Tyll who are a lot more reserved in their judgement.  Both are trustworthy but they have opposite reactions.  Given that, I'd think the hype train would be significantly cooled, but apparently not.


----------



## Change is Good

abula said:


> Hey mad, is your mixamp good enough for the 1540? i mean for X1 i felt it was well enough, just wondering if 1540 requires more power or the mixamps do the trick.




The 1540 will scale better with more power, but when gaming you should be fine with just the mixamp.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Oh, their tumblr?  Yeah, I'll wait for a third-party measurement.  lol  Like I said, I heard a version that didn't sound very good like a $700 headphone so I'm curious to see what happens after the fine tuning.
> 
> When I hear people saying "the EL-8 looks promising" I always wonder where they're getting that info from, since 1st person accounts from CES are pretty mixed.  Folks like Mike Mercer are just creaming themselves over it and then you have folks like Tyll who are a lot more reserved in their judgement.  Both are trustworthy but they have opposite reactions.  Given that, I'd think the hype train would be significantly cooled, but apparently not.


 

 Their measurements are usually incredibly consistent with third-party. The hype is still going simply because Audeze is good at what they do and they're not the kind of headphone makers that would put out a completely half-assed product that was bass-light of all things (and I more mean that they're going to fix it, not that I don't believe what Tyll and others have said.)
  
 There's a huge difference between "looks promising" and GOTTA BUY THAT NOW HOLY ****! that some of us do. "Looks promising" more means "I have an interest in it, but I'm not going to think about getting it until it has been out for a little bit."
  
 That said, I learned my lesson about hype and looking at manufacturer's graphs. I've already been burnt by the Alpha Primes.


----------



## Yethal

Anybody played the Battlefield 4 after the recent patch? The audio is supposed to be improved.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A day after the new toy syndrome has worn out,


I'm missing a bit of the X2's clarity in the midrange with the 1540, not gonna lie. The bass is also a little distortion heavy at louder volumes (not badly, just something I hear). What that means, is that it is prone to breaking up if a track's bass is anything but clean and well mastered. The 1540 sounds more like a moderate volume headphone in terms of sweet spots. Definitely doesn't like high volume. It leads me to believe it shares a similar driver to the 1840, as the 1840 had the same issue with distorted bass, and not liking high volumes.

I can guarantee that the 1540 will play nicer with neutral to colder amps. I think it should pair up well with the Creative X7, Magni, O2 and the like.

I mean, I really enjoy it's tonal balance, but I think it's a bit overpriced at $500. Definitely needs to be more in the $300 range.

Don't get me wrong. I'm NOT disappointed. Just literally pointing out the bad stuff, since you know people tend to gloss over them generally in reviews. In moderate volumes, it sounds awesome


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> A day after the new toy syndrome has worn out,
> 
> 
> I'm missing a bit of the X2's clarity in the midrange with the 1540, not gonna lie. The bass is also a little distortion heavy at louder volumes (not badly, just something I hear). What that means, is that it is prone to breaking up if a track's bass is anything but clean and well mastered. The 1540 sounds more like a moderate volume headphone in terms of sweet spots. Definoitely doesn't like high volume. It leads me to believe it shares a similar driver to the 1840, as the 1840 had the same issue with distorted bass, and not liking high volumes.
> ...


 
  
 I wasn't sure if it was going to be worth that cash. There are not many dynamic headphones past $500 that warrant that kind of pricetag (especially the T70P.) The few I can think of are the Denon Dx000 series, (despite not liking them) the TH6/900, the T1/T90, and HD800 (or 700 if you're into that sort of thing, but I've seen them drop to 400 lately.) Before anyone says anything, I'm ignoring the K812 exists.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I mean even going on and purchasing it, I knew $500 was going to be a bit overpricing the headphone. Lol, the Pro 900 has gone up to that price range too. Ridiculous. The 1540 is definitely superior.


----------



## Change is Good

I felt the same way when I first got it. A bit overpriced at $500, that is, until I sold a pair of alcantaras to help fund the alpha pads. The whole sound signature tightens up without any loss in bass impact. People tend to forget that the lambskin alpha pads are a big factor in the Mad Dogs and Alpha Dogs sound signatures. I asked someone to use the alcantara pads on the Alpha way back when both headphones first released (they had both), and the feedback was terrible. It lost it's bass tightness and impact, brittle highs, distortion at high volumes.

I want to like the alcantaras a lot because of its supreme comfort, but unfortunately they just don't sound as good as pads that isolate better. That's why I say the alcantaras are better for open headphones.

So, yeah, the alpha pads are like PEDs for the 1540. Already a good headphone, but a home run record breaker with the pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I remember you telling me the Alpha pads improves the 1540, but... you know me and pads. 

It's ok though. I love the 1540 as is.

If I look at it a certain way, I'm getting free $45 pads to use with something else in the future, if I want as well. These pads work well with practically every headphone people seem to test them on. I copuld always go back to my HE400, for the 87394789327498th time. IF I gave up the X2. So far, that's not looking likely.

*Stillhart, *you asked what my problem was with my X2. Well, at about 30hz, one of the cups goes silent. Basically, the lowest sub bass disappears on one side.

Thing is, stuff rarely goes that low, and the X2 being an open headphone has a steep decibel difference with stuff less around 40hz and up anyways, so it's not really an issue for me overall. And since I basically play video games more than anything else on headphones, they don't ever tend to hit that low.

Ive been using the X2 for music quite a bit lately, and the issue has cropped up almost never. I hear iot on very, very few songs, even bassy ones tend to focus on higher bass ranges. One of my sub bassiest songs (Submerged by Synthetic Epiphany), tends to stick in the 40hz and up range, only hitting the problem area for like 2 seconds out of the whole song. Half of that song actually disappears on bass shy headphones because how much importance is put on low bass.

So yes, while it is an issue, it's quite minor, which is why I'm not dying if I don't return it. I love my X2 too much, and don't wanna risk getting an even worse one, or giving up the X2 entirely.


----------



## PacoTaco

Word of warning about the Alpha Pads: Dan has switched to a thinner leather recently, but made the foam thicker. I noticed that when I got a backup pair with my Alpha Primes that my Mad Dog alpha pads were made with thicker leather. It kinda hurts the durability, bit time will tel with that one. It would be interesting to see if anyone could mod the focus pads to fit on other headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> Word of warning about the Alpha Pads: Dan has switched to a thinner leather recently, but made the foam thicker. I noticed that when I got a backup pair with my Alpha Primes that my Mad Dog alpha pads were made with thicker leather. It kinda hurts the durability, bit time will tel with that one. It would be interesting to see if anyone could mod the focus pads to fit on other headphones.




Damn, that's messed up. Does it feel cheaper? Like, is it still that luxurious leather being used?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wonder how it affects the sound, for older Dog headphones. I'm sure Dan has compensated the sound of newer headphones with the pad differences, but people with older pads may be out of luck if they mess up. Their headphones may have to be retuned.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I remember you telling me the Alpha pads improves the 1540, but... you know me and pads.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a pair of Alpha Pads just sitting around doing nothing at the moment...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Leather...

I like the Alpha Pads, but no way I'd give up the Alcantara comfort.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I have a pair of Alpha Pads just sitting around doing nothing at the moment...




PM coming your way...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A true hispanic snipe, right there.


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> Damn, that's messed up. Does it feel cheaper? Like, is it still that luxurious leather being used?




It's the same quality leather, but he does outsource the production of them to China. It's not noticeable unless you have them both in your hands but you can tell they're different than they use to be. Foam's sturdier though.

They're still comfy as hell, but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't last as long as the old ones.0


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> A true hispanic snipe, right there.




Pendejo down 

If you want them go ahead, though. If not, then I'll take em...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LMAO. Nah, I know me. The heat will bother me. It did on the MD and Alpha Dog, though not as much as pleather, of course.

I'm having a hard time reviewing the COP for the same reason. Those pads are irritating the hell out of my skin.


----------



## AxelCloris

I was primarily offering them up if MLE wanted to sample them with the 1540 for a bit. I plan on keeping the pads for use with other headphones; that's why I have a second set.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I may take you up on the offer later on if to at least add to the review for you guys.


----------



## PacoTaco

Apparently the gel pads for the T70/DT770 were amazing with isolation. Unfortunately, they stopped making them randomly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, and the gel pads are known to be even hotter than pleather.


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> Word of warning about the Alpha Pads: Dan has switched to a thinner leather recently, but made the foam thicker. I noticed that when I got a backup pair with my Alpha Primes that my Mad Dog alpha pads were made with thicker leather. It kinda hurts the durability, bit time will tel with that one. *It would be interesting to see if anyone could mod the focus pads to fit on other headphones.*


 
  
 I tried, and butchered them in the process... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I was, however, able to stretch the focus pad skin over the alpha pad, so I bet it can just be sewed on without a problem.


----------



## PacoTaco

They are? Thought they would be the opposite since they're mostly used for aviation. Ah well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thats what i heard. There is nowhere for sweat to go under the gel pads, so it gets hot and sweaty very quickly.


----------



## calpis

So what's the thickness and the inner and outer diameter of the 1540 alcantera pads? Maybe I can mod them onto my Pro2900.


----------



## Abula

Hey mad why not the K7XX? are they not your personal liking? for $200 they seem pretty good, specially with how good most of the AKG do on your reviews.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, the K7XX and 1540 and great compliments to each other. I felt the same way when I had the K712 and 1540. Curiosity got the best of me, though, so I've kind of been jumping around with open headphones. It used to be the opposite, though, always was the closed headphones I kept switching. That is, until the 1540 came around


----------



## 8bitg33k

First of all many thanks and kudos to Mad Lust Envy for the excellent guide!
  
 After my big disappointment with my Logitech G930's drivers not working properly (or rather, not at all), I decided to go have another look at some alternatives. I was about to decide on the Sennheiser G4ME One Headset when I stumbled across this review. I changed my mind and am now considering the Skullcandy PLYR 1 as a possible alternative. The main thing that still stop me from pulling the trigger on them are the many reviews regarding build quality - many people report them breaking after only short use (here)
  
 Perhaps someone can recommend me some other alternatives?
  
 Here's my criteria:
  
 1) Budget ~150
 2) Clean sound mainly for gaming
 3) Surround Sound
 4) Wireless is a plus but not a must
 5) PC compatible (if they can plug into my TV that's another plus)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

abula said:


> Hey mad why not the K7XX? are they not your personal liking? for $200 they seem pretty good, specially with how good most of the AKG do on your reviews.




Because I've already reviewed it in its other forms already. You can extrapolate my thoughts on the 7XX by reading the Annie and 712 reviews. Yes they may vary ever so slightly, but it's essentially ground I've trod time and time again.

Besides, dont need that headphone yet again, and I like just a bit more bass than the AKGs provide, which is why I have the X2 as my open headphone.


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> First of all many thanks and kudos to Mad Lust Envy for the excellent guide!
> 
> After my big disappointment with my Logitech G930's drivers not working properly (or rather, not at all), I decided to go have another look at some alternatives. I was about to decide on the Sennheiser G4ME One Headset when I stumbled across this review. I changed my mind and am now considering the Skullcandy PLYR 1 as a possible alternative. The main thing that still stop me from pulling the trigger on them are the many reviews regarding build quality - many people report them breaking after only short use (here)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Unfortunately, there's only one pair with surround sound already with it in that pricerange...and that's the trittons. You don't want the trittons, they're the same quality as the Logitech.
  
 You can find a used astro mixamp for as low as $70 on ebay. Then search around a bit and you can find the HD598 or the 558 for as low as ~$80. Then, save up some more money and get a antlion ModMic. You'll be set after that. Later, you can get a fairly cheap amp and that should benefit the HD598/558 nicely (as it has weird impedance spikes.) Another good bet is the AD700 if you can find that used for cheaper.
  


abula said:


> Hey mad why not the K7XX? are they not your personal liking? for $200 they seem pretty good, specially with how good most of the AKG do on your reviews.


 
  
 The KXX is practically the same headphone as the K702 Annie, just made in China as opposed to Austria.


----------



## malla1ml

You can also get a used Turtle Beach DSS on Amazon for $15.  Pretty good deal if the budget is really tight.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> My apologies calpis. I forgot bass is what brings you out from the bat cave.




Or maybe he lives in the bass cave? Nice acoustics in there, Calpis?


Speaking of MOAR bass (maybe?), I just got CAL2 in the mail. Gotta listen a bit, first impression I'm surprised how high I have to turn the volume for the mids/vocals (where I pretty much base my volume), but... Yeah, these headphones got bass. It's immediately not bad, but I'll need some time to decide if it's good. Kinda have me wondering how they compare to other V-shaped headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Because I've already reviewed it in its other forms already. You can extrapolate my thoughts on the 7XX by reading the Annie and 712 reviews. Yes they may vary ever so slightly, but it's essentially ground I've trod time and time again.
> 
> Besides, dont need that headphone yet again, and I like just a bit more bass than the AKGs provide, which is why I have the X2 as my open headphone.




So does this mean you are happy with having the X2 as your open neutral-ish warm can and the 1540 as your closed borderline basshead-ish can?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Or maybe he lives in the bass cave? Nice acoustics in there, Calpis?
> 
> 
> Speaking of MOAR bass (maybe?), I just got CAL2 in the mail. Gotta listen a bit, first impression I'm surprised how high I have to turn the volume for the mids/vocals (where I pretty much base my volume), but... Yeah, these headphones got bass. It's immediately not bad, but I'll need some time to decide if it's good. *Kinda have me wondering how they compare to other V-shaped headphones.*




How does it compare to the m100?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> So does this mean you are happy with having the X2 as your open neutral-ish warm can and the 1540 as your closed borderline basshead-ish can?




I'm financially worried about keeping both. I was going to return the X2 to offset the cost of the 1540 slightly, but at this point, if I had to keep one, it'd be the X2. But then I really wanna keep the 1540 as well. I honestly have no desire to replace the X2 with anything better. I love it as my main. But not living alone... I need a closed headphone, and the 1540 fills that in nicely. Just wish it was like $200 cheaper.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm financially worried about keeping both. I was going to return the X2 to offset the cost of the 1540 slightly, but at this point, if I had to keep one, it'd be the X2. But then I really wanna keep the 1540 as well. I honestly have no desire to replace the X2 with anything better. I love it as my main. But not living alone... I need a closed headphone, and the 1540 fills that in nicely. Just wish it was like $200 cheaper.




Yeah, I don't know why the closed headphone market doesn't get really good until you reach the $500 mark. Kind of sucks, honestly. My limit has always been $400 for a headphone, but the sacrifice had to be made for the 1540.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm actually impressed enough enough with the Custom One Pro, that I'd buy one and a pair of 1540 pads to gut, and use that as my closed... it's comfort is basically a 9/10 for a closed headphone in that way. the 1540 is not as comfy as a 1540 equipped COP.

It would save me over $200, and have more upfront mids than the 1540. I don't need ultimate refinement for a closed headphone, either.

I just really don't wanna hassle Amazon with another return.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm actually impressed enough enough with the Custom One Pro, that I'd buy one and a pair of 1540 pads to gut, and use that as my closed... it's comfort is basically a 9/10 for a closed headphone in that way. the 1540 is not as comfy as a 1540 equipped COP.
> 
> It would save me over $200, and have more upfront mids than the 1540. *I don't need ultimate refinement for a closed headphone, either.*
> 
> I just really don't wanna hassle Amazon with another return.




I keep saying that everytime I think about selling the 1540. Like, oh, I'll be good with something like the HP150, M50x, COP, etc. Then, I put them on. A year and a half later...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 1540 works very well, just I was under the assumption that I was returning the X2, which is no longer what I want to do, so the $500 hit is significant. One that is not easy to justify. One or the other has to go... and I'm having one hell of a honemymoon period with the X2.


----------



## Change is Good

I say return the X2, since there is a deficiency that is present, whether rarely noticeable or not. Its like when I had the rattle issue with my Q701 and Annie, it was only noticeable if I looked for it. It still drove me crazy enough to get them replaced, though.

Then, once you recover get another X2 some months from now, hopefully on sale by then. Just my suggestion, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But $500 is a touh pill to swallow for an alternative headphone, not a main. I do in fact prefer the X2 over the 1540, and it costs $200 less. Just my problem is justifying keeping both, because I don't wanna return the X2, even if I was offered another. I'm scared of driver variation getting me an X2 that won't sound as good.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> But $500 is a touh pill to swallow for an alternative headphone, not a main. I do in fact prefer the X2 over the 1540, and it costs $200 less. Just my problem is justifying keeping both, because I don't wanna return the X2, even if I was offered another. I'm scared of driver variation getting me an X2 that won't sound as good.


 
  
 To me it sounds like you love the X2, so get it repaired and keep it.  Return the Shure and get a cheap COP.  I'm all about value and, while I think the 1540 probably is better than the COP, it's clear you don't think it's $350 better.  Considering you can have the X2 AND the COP for less than the cost of the 1540, it seems like a no-brainer.


----------



## PacoTaco

malla1ml said:


> You can also get a used Turtle Beach DSS on Amazon for $15.  Pretty good deal if the budget is really tight.




That would work well. Didn't mention that due to no chat mixing, but people usually find ways (like the chat out into the MP3 in of the dad.)


----------



## Change is Good

I feel ya. When I got the X2, I did have a slight feeling I got one of the spour ones. I just wasn't that impressed. I also completely understand how you feel about the 1540. I had that same remorse when I first got it, already having the K712 as my main and spending $500 for a closed alternate. But, like I said, it was a tough journey trying to find the right closed headphone. Through time, along with the alpha pad effect, I ended up just swallowing that pill.

You ain't wrong with keeping either. Both are the shiznit, plus, like you say, the price difference will ultimately have the final say so. That's the benefit of an open headphone. Wonderful sound for a lower price, at the cost of isolation.


----------



## Change is Good

Plus the COP will be BoomPro compatible, as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dammit, I hate having so many options.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Dammit, I hate having so many options.




That's what makes this hobby so wonderful.

And, yeah, I have the 400i, K7XX, and 1540. I could have a flagship for all those, combined. I like having different choices, though. They all have their distinct strengths that set them apart from each other.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was even mulling over a Jaybird Bluebud X at one point for work... and I don't even like IEMs. But I hate snagging cables more.


----------



## Change is Good

Once I sell my F887 I might get the Cayin C5 for the right price. Wouldn't mind having a juicy portable amp for when I want to lay back with my full size cans and not have to sit at my desk. I mean, they all sound decent off my DAPs, but sooo much better amped. Not necessary on the go, but good to have when laying back at the crib.

It'll be end game-ish for me, then...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sitting here at work, listening to the COP+ in an AC less room, with the door open to let air in. I'm positively sweating due to the pads. ***.

Winter is clearly over in Florida.


----------



## 8bitg33k

pacotaco said:


> Unfortunately, there's only one pair with surround sound already with it in that pricerange...and that's the trittons. You don't want the trittons, they're the same quality as the Logitech.
> 
> You can find a used astro mixamp for as low as $70 on ebay. Then search around a bit and you can find the HD598 or the 558 for as low as ~$80. Then, save up some more money and get a antlion ModMic. You'll be set after that. Later, you can get a fairly cheap amp and that should benefit the HD598/558 nicely (as it has weird impedance spikes.) Another good bet is the AD700 if you can find that used for cheaper.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the answer! I wonder if the HD598 will work with my Xonar DG in terms of being able to produce Virtual Surround (since the Soundcard is capable of producing Virtual Surround).


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> Thanks for the answer! I wonder if the HD598 will work with my Xonar DG in terms of being able to produce Virtual Surround (since the Soundcard is capable of producing Virtual Surround).




Oh, my bad. I assumed you were on a console and wanted PC compatibility for something else.

Well ****, you're fine then. Surround sound out a sound card that is going to a pair of headphones is actually 5.1 downscaled to two channels. Any stereo headphone will work. If you want something good for competitive gaming, just get the G4ME headset, as it just a HD558/598 with a mic. If you want an all-rounder, stretch your budget just a tad and get a used Fidelio X1 and purchase a V-moda boom mic.


----------



## Fegefeuer

stillhart said:


> To me it sounds like you love the X2, so get it repaired and keep it.  Return the Shure and get a cheap COP.  I'm all about value and, while I think the 1540 probably is better than the COP, it's clear you don't think it's $350 better.  Considering you can have the X2 AND the COP for less than the cost of the 1540, it seems like a no-brainer.


 
  
 This, though I love the DT770 LE AE the most out of all closed Beyers, surely before the COP. No velour though.
  
 500 for an alternative is tough, especially when it's the 1540. The Z7 at least had good materials. Both not worthy over 300 in sound. Even then, the Z7 before the Shure because of the much better soundstage and built.


----------



## 8bitg33k

I found an Audio Technica ATH-AD700X for a good price within my budget. Haven't pulled the trigger yet though. What I like about the Skullcandy PLYR 1's is Mad Lust Envy's great rating for those. What deters me are the many negative reviews about poor build quality and them stopping working on people. I do like bass, and immersion is rather important to me. I'll be mainly playing Star Citizen (Multiplayer/ Competitive), which is not an FPS but a Space Sim (think flying an X-Wing or a Tie Fighter) so spatial awareness is very important as well. Perhaps even more important than in FPS games because of the extra added dimension of z (up/down). The game is rather loud - hearing footsteps is less important than hearing where those lasers firing are coming from.
  
 EDIT: Oh wait, the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X and Audio Technica ATH-AD700 different headphones... what are the differences between these?


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> I found an Audio Technica ATH-AD700X for a good price within my budget. Haven't pulled the trigger yet though. What I like about the Skullcandy PLYR 1's is Mad Lust Envy's great rating for those. What deters me are the many negative reviews about poor build quality and them stopping working on people. I do like bass, and immersion is rather important to me. I'll be mainly playing Star Citizen (Multiplayer/ Competitive), which is not an FPS but a Space Sim (think flying an X-Wing or a Tie Fighter) so spatial awareness is very important as well. Perhaps even more important than in FPS games because of the extra added dimension of z (up/down). The game is rather loud - hearing footsteps is less important than hearing where those lasers firing are coming from.
> 
> EDIT: Oh wait, the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X and Audio Technica ATH-AD700 different headphones... what are the differences between these?


 
  
 The AD700x is the updated version of the AD700. They're the same headphone practically.
  
 I hesitated recommending the AD700 becuase it is a straight competitive headphone...I.E., all detail, soundstage and more detail....and no bass. If you want immersion, you're better off with something like a Fidelio X1. If you can stretch your budget 20$ more, they have a used one for $176. This headphone is easy to drive with just about anything, and is compatible with a V-moda boom mic.
  
 Another alternative is the DT990 Pros, which can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0011UB9CQ/sr=8-1/qid=1425478347/ref=olp_twister_child?ie=UTF8&mv_size_name=1&qid=1425478347&sr=8-1 . If you want to use it with anything else, however, it will need an amp.
  
  
  


change is good said:


> That's what makes this hobby so wonderful.
> 
> And, yeah, I have the 400i, K7XX, and 1540. I could have a flagship for all those, combined. I like having different choices, though. They all have their distinct strengths that set them apart from each other.


 
  
  


change is good said:


> I feel ya. When I got the X2, I did have a slight feeling I got one of the spour ones. I just wasn't that impressed. I also completely understand how you feel about the 1540. I had that same remorse when I first got it, already having the K712 as my main and spending $500 for a closed alternate. But, like I said, it was a tough journey trying to find the right closed headphone. Through time, along with the alpha pad effect, I ended up just swallowing that pill.
> 
> You ain't wrong with keeping either. Both are the shiznit, plus, like you say, the price difference will ultimately have the final say so. That's the benefit of an open headphone. Wonderful sound for a lower price, at the cost of isolation.


 
  
 Since the 400i and the 500 are close to sounding like the same headphone (not quite though,) a lot of people consider the HE500 a "flagship" headphone due to how unique it is...so you got that going for you, which is nice.
  
 As far as a $500 closed alternative...There's not many good dynamic headphones that fit that category. The T70P is like freaking murderration on your ears if you hate brightness, the Shure isn't worth the complete price of admission, and...well that's mostly it.
  
 The TH600 could be good bet when it's on sale or used. I don't personally like it, but a lot of people do. The Blue MoFi is $350...and while that's a wonderful, dark headphone, the comfort issues for anyone with a head bigger than normal is unbearable. It actually put a dent in my head. It's sad because it sounds like a funner Mad Dog.
  
 Oddly enough, you're really kind of restricted to closed planars. Mad Dog Pro, used Alpha Dog, ZMF Vibro, Paradox, PM-3....honestly only one of those isn't a T50RP mod.
  
 Of course, I'm using the maximum budget possible -shrugs-.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> How does it compare to the m100?




I was going to give time for understanding, but something pretty significant happened for my first impressions.

Tonight, I played with the CAL2 for about an hour and a half. That's quite good for me and closed headphones, takes more determination to do that with the M100 (I haven't aggressively tried bending the M100 to reduce clamp too much), the Circumaural fit of the CAL2 does a good job. My ears were hot though and I felt like they needed a break, so I switched to my K612, but that lasted a few moments before I realized that my ears were already irritated and I just didn't want anything touching... So I tried the Audeo Phonak from the recent 60% off deal.

The CAL2 are like... Well if the HE400 are V-shaped and the M-100 less so, the CAL2 is a little bit... L-shaped? One of the stronger bass responses I've heard, relative to the rest of the freq range. A bit of bloat and smeared bass, and though a bit warmer/darker the mids and treble are mostly linear to eachother till the treble rolls off, it's not a reference headphone but pleasurable enough to listen to. I love the sound and fit of the Audeo IEMs for the price, and they came with the green "bassy" filters which have a little bass bloat but still less than the CAL2, and this time the Audeo sounded muffled and really quiet in the right ear... Turns out the CAL2 bass bothered my ears and my left had clogged with earwax. Using a little earwax solvent and a special ear-flushing syringe, I ended up spending an HOUR flushing bits of earwax out from my ear before it finally popped "open" and it didn't sound underwater anymore.

So far I haven't put headphones back on since the 2-minutes with the Audeo, but I think the CAL2 is a case of making headphones that customers ask for but don't really need. By the time the mids/treble is at a "natural" feeling volume, the bass has definitely hit basshead quantity, not as much as the XB500 but still more than any headphone I own. And maybe my ears are more sensitive to bass than others, maybe I was going to have waxy ears anyway. The bass was a bit loose, but the headphone sounded fun rather than unpleasant. To put a bow on it, the bass is noticably bumped and that may well be exactly what some people will want, but in my case it may be beyond subjective preference and simply beyond what my ears should listen to.


----------



## Evshrug

8bitg33k said:


> I found an Audio Technica ATH-AD700X for a good price within my budget. Haven't pulled the trigger yet though. What I like about the Skullcandy PLYR 1's is Mad Lust Envy's great rating for those. What deters me are the many negative reviews about poor build quality and them stopping working on people. I do like bass, and immersion is rather important to me. I'll be mainly playing Star Citizen (Multiplayer/ Competitive), which is not an FPS but a Space Sim (think flying an X-Wing or a Tie Fighter) so spatial awareness is very important as well. Perhaps even more important than in FPS games because of the extra added dimension of z (up/down). The game is rather loud - hearing footsteps is less important than hearing where those lasers firing are coming from.
> 
> EDIT: Oh wait, the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X and Audio Technica ATH-AD700 different headphones... what are the differences between these?







pacotaco said:


> The AD700x is the updated version of the AD700. They're the same headphone practically.
> 
> I hesitated recommending the AD700 becuase it is a straight competitive headphone...I.E., all detail, soundstage and more detail....and no bass. If you want immersion, you're better off with something like a Fidelio X1. If you can stretch your budget 20$ more, they have a used one for $176. This headphone is easy to drive with just about anything, and is compatible with a V-moda boom mic.




Paco's first point is true, based on reviews I've read. New color scheme, maybe an adjustment to the headband for westerner heads, but the sonic essence is the same.

The AD700 is a legend in the gaming community, I owned an AD700 as my main headphone for three years. It features very light weight and excellent wearing comfort if you reshape the spring metal headband to your head, budget-busting soundstage, and a highlight on the mids and highs with a nice sparkle. "No Bass" is a common misnomer, bass notes are reproduced but it's true that the headphone is very lean and the sub bass rolls off. I actually enjoyed the AD700 with a bass boost while playing Metro:2033, the game is very atmospheric and keeps you very alert about sounds, and the Creative Recon3D USB I was using as my soundcard at the time had a very great way of being able to target the bass boost to low frequencies and create harmonic boosts, which overall lead to a really cool and energetic rumble in Metro when the Anomalies VROOMM by and fry a bunch of mutants. The AD700 and Sony MA900 had the best imaging and soundstage out of any headphone I've heard, though the MA900 had the same dryness problem and the AD700 was less expensive (the MA900 didn't need any adjustment to wear comfortably, last I checked had gone up in price from being discontinued). Ultimately, I decided on transitioning to the AKG side of the force, I had both the AD700 and Q701 for four months before I accepted that the Q701 was basically on the same level for imaging and almost as good as the AD700 (amping improved the Q even more later), the Q was less dry and more fun but I had a hard time justifying the 2x price difference at the time. If I had known about the K601, I probably would've tried that, I do very much like the K612 I have now.

I haven't heard the Phillips X1, but a LOT of time was spent on this thread reviewing and writing about it, and it seems like a very different headphone. The bass is in the spotlight for that headphone, the bass-mids-treble have a V-shape emphasis though less treble than bass, a very fun sounding headphone tuning which has good soundstage and imaging sheerly because it has good drivers. The look and feel is apparently pretty luxurious too. I do recommend Mad's review on the first post as a good representation of the headphone.

To me, it feels weird to hear about someone's preferences and intended use, and then recommend both the AD700x and X1 — they are just very different in focus. There is another Phillips with more balance and soundstage at a closer to $100 price point that was recently tried out and popular around here (help me out guys!), Soundmagic HP100, and AKG K612 I'd recommend most at your price point. I got my K612 at less than $150, it has a really great balance of basically everything and responds really well to surround processing. Which Asus soundcard do you have again? You don't want to use the K612 with a weak amp like in many android devices (eg the Note series) or external amps under $50, but it does sound surprisingly good straight into my iPad Mini (and my good amps even better of course) and your Xonar may have a proper headphone amp built-in. I'd like people to chime in about the Soundmagic and Phillips SHP-something (not the one tagged by the system), but what I like about the K612 is it seems to have a perfect balance between dry and wet so it has emotion but is detailed and controlled, has great bass punch and extension even though it's not much louder than the musical and forward mids, the highs are nice sparkly highs without sounding uneven or fatiguing like happened for me with the Beyer DT880, the soundstaging is excellent-tier, and they're comfortable to wear for hours as they self-adjust without a complicated adjustment system. Plus, I think they look cool for an at-home headphone.


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> Paco's first point is true, based on reviews I've read. New color scheme, maybe an adjustment to the headband for westerner heads, but the sonic essence is the same.
> 
> The AD700 is a legend in the gaming community, I owned an AD700 as my main headphone for three years. It features very light weight and excellent wearing comfort if you reshape the spring metal headband to your head, budget-busting soundstage, and a highlight on the mids and highs with a nice sparkle. "No Bass" is a common misnomer, bass notes are reproduced but it's true that the headphone is very lean and the sub bass rolls off. I actually enjoyed the AD700 with a bass boost while playing Metro:2033, the game is very atmospheric and keeps you very alert about sounds, and the Creative Recon3D USB I was using as my soundcard at the time had a very great way of being able to target the bass boost to low frequencies and create harmonic boosts, which overall lead to a really cool and energetic rumble in Metro when the Anomalies VROOMM by and fry a bunch of mutants. The AD700 and Sony MA900 had the best imaging and soundstage out of any headphone I've heard, though the MA900 had the same dryness problem and the AD700 was less expensive (the MA900 didn't need any adjustment to wear comfortably, last I checked had gone up in price from being discontinued). Ultimately, I decided on transitioning to the AKG side of the force, I had both the AD700 and Q701 for four months before I accepted that the Q701 was basically on the same level for imaging and almost as good as the AD700 (amping improved the Q even more later), the Q was less dry and more fun but I had a hard time justifying the 2x price difference at the time. If I had known about the K601, I probably would've tried that, I do very much like the K612 I have now.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I was using a hyperbole. Every headphone is capable of bass, but the AD700 rolls off almost comically and I never found it good for anything immersive. I tried the ADG1 (which is a AD700x with a mic) after owning the AD900 for awhile, and I could not get use to to save my life. It was too...not bassy. Maybe EQ could help that, but I tend to avoid EQ. The headphone, however, is known as a legend because it throws away a lot of body in the bass for sheer "being able to hear every detail." Which it does well...but if he wants bass, which he does, it is not the headphone for him.
  
 I forgot the K612 existed; that's a good suggestion.
  
 I wasn't recommending both of them to him. I was trying to convey that it was the opposite of what he wanted and I was hesitant to say anything about it in the first place. The X1 or DT990 is a much, much better choice for him. I can't recommend the DT880 for gaming to anyone though...maybe for music, but never for gaming. The T1 though? Way out of his budget, but having heard that headphone ruined the DT880 for me.
  
 If he can get $50 more, he could just spring for a KXX.
  
 I believe the Xonar DG can drive the K612. Just not much headroom.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh don't worry paco, I was using your example but not berating you... I've seen several people use that exact same hyperbole. It's fair to say that the consensus is the bass is recessed, I just wanted to add my personal experience. 


I need to add something to my CAL2 first impression. Well, 2 things:
1.) My ears feel better, but I had a coughing fit today. I don't have a fever or anything but apparently I'm not 100%, could also be the cause of the wax build-up.

2.) I've never heard the Audio Technica M50, when I earlier said "wonder how these CAL2 stack up to other V-Shaped headphones" I was thinking about the M50. The CAL2 does have easy-to-recognize forward bass, and is a departure from what I normally listen to, but my first impressions should be taken with a grain of salt because that was only an hour and a half of listening and because of point 1.


----------



## Evshrug

I need to hear a TR50P mod headphone someday.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm sitting here at work, listening to the COP+ in an AC less room, with the door open to let air in. I'm positively sweating due to the pads. ***.
> 
> *Winter is clearly over in Florida.*




Dude, my ears were a bit warm even with the K7XX, last night. I had to close my window, turn on the AC, and use my IEMs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So looks like the 1540 made the decision for me. I can't get used to the hot spots that it's causing on the top of my skull. I barely mentioned it on the 1840 review (though I did mention it), but I may have been more lenient because it was a loaner that I didn't have to keep.

It's not horrible, but considering I already have the headband maxed out in length, and can't relieve the pressure whatsoever by adjusting the headphone (lack of swivel or pivot), makes it very hard to reposition. The shape of my head and this headphone aren't ideal, for sure.

Comfort take precendence over nearly everything else as always. 

I was actually even contemplating just saving my money and returning both the X2 and 1540 at this point.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> So looks like the 1540 made the decision for me. I can't get used to the hot spots that it's causing on the top of my skull. I barely mentioned it on the 1840 review (though I did mention it), but I may have been more lenient because it was a loaner that I didn't have to keep.
> 
> It's not horrible, but considering I already have the headband maxed out in length, and can't relieve the pressure whatsoever by adjusting the headphone (lack of swivel or pivot), makes it very hard to reposition. The shape of my head and this headphone aren't ideal, for sure.
> 
> ...




Back to planars?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. I have to think this through. I'm 50/50 on the X2. Pretty sure the 1540 is going back. I'm telling you though, had the 1540 not had that hot spotting, I would keep it. Like you, I feel it hits the sound I want, with the pads I love. I wish the construction wasn't so rigid.


----------



## Change is Good

I bent mine quite a bit to adjust to my head. Same with the 1840, so maybe that's why it didn't bother you as much, then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dude, I tried. How the hell did you bend it? I feel I'd break it if I bent it anymore, and it didn't even manage to change it's shape AT ALL.


At this point, dunno if I should keep it long enough to review it, considering I'm focusing on the COP atm, though it's not like I've done reviews with just a few days of use. I'm gonna try and get the gist of the COP's review done quickly (I do have a 45 day evaluation with them), and focus on the 1540 in the next few days.


----------



## Change is Good

Where are you bending? I not only bent the top, but also the metal sides. I had to be careful, however, when bending the metal sides outward. It was a bit risky, but it worked.

Your head might be too damn big, though, bruh. No stretching or modding will do that melon any justice...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, yeah. I have a long head... not big in with but in height. So the fact that the 1540 expands far out in width, makes it harder for the cups to reach my ears comfortable without some downforce on the headband.

The more I listen to the 1540, the more I want to keep it. But damn it if something doesn't always get in the way.


----------



## Change is Good

Do know that the padding on the top part will also get softer and break in well. That might be another factor in why it didn't bother you as much with the 1840.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why is it that cheap headphones like the COP have like the best padding ever, yet high end headphones can't seem to get everything right in shape/comfort? If only the COP headband pad could wrap around the 1540. But then again, I don't have enough clearance.


----------



## rudyae86

Hey EVs, it's the Phillips SHP-9500.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder if how the 1540 pads would affect the TH600...


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Hey EVs, it's the Phillips SHP-9500.




Thanks! Stillhart told me awhile ago (text message), but you actually own one... Care to drop a few lines about what is appealing about it, and what might be unappealing?

I forgot the Soundmagic HP100 was closed (Stillhart reminded me), also forget what the sound signature is supposed to be like, but I do remember he took to to CES and was super impressed with how well it scaled up with equipment costing more than the headphone itself. Among closed headphones at affordable prices, I've read good about the CAL! and this SoundMagic. Maybe Change could drop a few + & - about it since he owns/owned one, and describe the sound signature?

I realize these mini reviews will eventually get buried, but I'll remember them!


Btw, all you florida guys, it's snowing here but melting on bare ground (maybe accumulating a bit on some of the remaining snow from before), definitely still winter here in Pennsylvania!


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Thanks! Stillhart told me awhile ago (text message), but you actually own one... Care to drop a few lines about what is appealing about it, and what might be unappealing?
> 
> I forgot the Soundmagic HP100 was closed (Stillhart reminded me), also forget what the sound signature is supposed to be like, but I do remember he took to to CES and was super impressed with how well it scaled up with equipment costing more than the headphone itself. Among closed headphones at affordable prices, I've read good about the CAL! and this SoundMagic. Maybe Change could drop a few + & - about it since he owns/owned one, and describe the sound signature?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HP100 is surprisingly balanced with a hint of sub-bass hump; it's a very neutral sound, which doesn't do anything amazingly well but does nothing badly.  The CAL doesn't sound much like it at all. I haven't heard it in a while since my wife uses it at work, but it's a much more "fun" sound signature with boosted bass FWIR.
  
 I'm very curious to hear the Oppo PM-3 as a potential upgrade from my HP100, mostly because I'm so used to planar bass now (HE-4, LCD-2 and now HE-560).  But I haven't heard anything else that I'd replace the HP100 with yet.


----------



## 8bitg33k

>


 


Spoiler: Quote hidden to keep this post short XD






evshrug said:


> Paco's first point is true, based on reviews I've read. New color scheme, maybe an adjustment to the headband for westerner heads, but the sonic essence is the same.
> 
> The AD700 is a legend in the gaming community, I owned an AD700 as my main headphone for three years. It features very light weight and excellent wearing comfort if you reshape the spring metal headband to your head, budget-busting soundstage, and a highlight on the mids and highs with a nice sparkle. "No Bass" is a common misnomer, bass notes are reproduced but it's true that the headphone is very lean and the sub bass rolls off. I actually enjoyed the AD700 with a bass boost while playing Metro:2033, the game is very atmospheric and keeps you very alert about sounds, and the Creative Recon3D USB I was using as my soundcard at the time had a very great way of being able to target the bass boost to low frequencies and create harmonic boosts, which overall lead to a really cool and energetic rumble in Metro when the Anomalies VROOMM by and fry a bunch of mutants. The AD700 and Sony MA900 had the best imaging and soundstage out of any headphone I've heard, though the MA900 had the same dryness problem and the AD700 was less expensive (the MA900 didn't need any adjustment to wear comfortably, last I checked had gone up in price from being discontinued). Ultimately, I decided on transitioning to the AKG side of the force, I had both the AD700 and Q701 for four months before I accepted that the Q701 was basically on the same level for imaging and almost as good as the AD700 (amping improved the Q even more later), the Q was less dry and more fun but I had a hard time justifying the 2x price difference at the time. If I had known about the K601, I probably would've tried that, I do very much like the K612 I have now.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


pacotaco said:


> I was using a hyperbole. Every headphone is capable of bass, but the AD700 rolls off almost comically and I never found it good for anything immersive. I tried the ADG1 (which is a AD700x with a mic) after owning the AD900 for awhile, and I could not get use to to save my life. It was too...not bassy. Maybe EQ could help that, but I tend to avoid EQ. The headphone, however, is known as a legend because it throws away a lot of body in the bass for sheer "being able to hear every detail." Which it does well...but if he wants bass, which he does, it is not the headphone for him.
> 
> I forgot the K612 existed; that's a good suggestion.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


 Thank you SO much for all the input guys!! My decision has not been made easier, on the contrary... BUT now I have a much better understanding and really good info that I didn't have before posting here. I will do some reading (and re-reading, lol!) before I make a final decsion. Again... thank you, I am so glad I stumbled this gem of a thread!


----------



## Evshrug

Sure 8bitg33k!
How fun is star ocean? When you said X-Wing and Tie Fighter, memories arised and an itch began...

I guess my follow up advice would be that, obviously, there are a lot of GOOD and ENJOYABLE choices out there which will make you happy, so after a little research just enjoy the one which appeals to your gut instinct and relax without buyer's remorse


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> Sure 8bitg33k!
> How fun is star ocean? When you said X-Wing and Tie Fighter, memories arised and an itch began...
> 
> I guess my follow up advice would be that, obviously, there are a lot of GOOD and ENJOYABLE choices out there which will make you happy, so after a little research just enjoy the one which appeals to your gut instinct and relax without buyer's remorse


 
  
 Star Citizen isn't out yet.  It's a MASSIVE undertaking by the guy who made Wing Commander.  The scope is on the level of something like X3 and Eve Online.  I'm looking forward to it, but the full game won't be ready for quite some time.  They're releasing it in chunks as they finish different modules, so right now the dog-fighting module is out and that's about it.  
  
 (Caveat:  I'm not actively following development right now so they may have released some other stuff... I think they were working on the first person in-station and on-planet stuff last I checked.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol Star Ocean. That's MY forte.


----------



## 8bitg33k

evshrug said:


> Sure 8bitg33k!
> How fun is star ocean? When you said X-Wing and Tie Fighter, memories arised and an itch began...
> 
> I guess my follow up advice would be that, obviously, there are a lot of GOOD and ENJOYABLE choices out there which will make you happy, so after a little research just enjoy the one which appeals to your gut instinct and relax without buyer's remorse


 
  
  


stillhart said:


> Star Citizen isn't out yet.  It's a MASSIVE undertaking by the guy who made Wing Commander.  The scope is on the level of something like X3 and Eve Online.  I'm looking forward to it, but the full game won't be ready for quite some time.  They're releasing it in chunks as they finish different modules, so right now the dog-fighting module is out and that's about it.
> 
> (Caveat:  I'm not actively following development right now so they may have released some other stuff... I think they were working on the first person in-station and on-planet stuff last I checked.)


 
  
 In a nutshell, after taking a 10 year Hiatus from making Space Sim games Chris Roberts popped up on kickstarter one day to show potential investors there was still a viable interest in Space Sims out there. His goal was to raise 2mil and have investors contribute the additional 8mil needed for the scope he had in mind. The campaign overshot it's intended goal by 6mil. SO then he said, well if we can raise just 2 more mil we wont need investors and can develop the game without a publisher breathing down our neck and rushing a half-fast game out the door. To date CIG has raised 72mil (and rising) and the scope is far above anyone imagined possible when they first began raising money. I'm an early Backer from the original kickstarter campaign and thus have access to all the Alpha modules being released Stillhart is referring to.

 So yeah, I've gone this far and really need a good set of headphones to go with this game  The wealth of info I've received so far is overwhelming and it will take me some time to sift through all the info. Right now I'm also considering the ADX900X (good soundstage, good bass (?) and good price). I don't think the 700X would work for me with the subtle bass. One decision I made already is to use stereo headphones with a good soundstage that can be driven by my Asus Xonar DG which feature Dolby Headphone and are rated up to 150ohm.


----------



## Stillhart

8bitg33k said:


> In a nutshell, after taking a 10 year Hiatus from making Space Sim games Chris Roberts popped up on kickstarter one day to show potential investors there was still a viable interest in Space Sims out there. His goal was to raise 2mil and have investors contribute the additional 8mil needed for the scope he had in mind. The campaign overshot it's intended goal by 6mil. SO then he said, well if we can raise just 2 more mil we wont need investors and can develop the game without a publisher breathing down our neck and rushing a half-fast game out the door. To date CIG has raised 72mil (and rising) and the scope is far above anyone imagined possible when they first began raising money. I'm an early Backer from the original kickstarter campaign and thus have access to all the Alpha modules being released Stillhart is referring to.
> 
> So yeah, I've gone this far and really need a good set of headphones to go with this game  The wealth of info I've received so far is overwhelming and it will take me some time to sift through all the info. Right now I'm also considering the ADX900X (good soundstage, good bass (?) and good price). I don't think the 700X would work for me with the subtle bass. One decision I made already is to use stereo headphones with a good soundstage that can be driven by my Asus Xonar DG which feature Dolby Headphone and are rated up to 150ohm.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm a post-KS backer, but still early enough to have access to everything including the permanent insurance or whatever it was called.  Unfortunately, since they released Arena Commander module, I've been unable to patch the game successfully.  I got sick of trying to redownload a 20GB patch every time I asked it to retry.  I have no idea why they don't release a version that already includes the ******* 20gb patch so we don't have to redownload it if there's a small error somewhere.  So yeah, a bit bitter that I haven't been able to check it out since the boring hangar module.
  
 For your headphone, I'd recommend the Fidelio X1.  Nice soundstage, really fun, immersive sound signature.  If you're not trying to soundwhore footsteps and such in CoD, you don't need the best "competitive" headphone.  You want one with good soundstage and imaging and then you can just go for a fun sig.  As an example, I loved playing Titanfall on the X1 because you couldn't really soundwhore in that game, but it was fantastic at letting you hear exactly where bullets were coming from when they whizzed by your head.  Using a "fun" bassy headphone like the X1 made the titans sound SO awesome, it was super fun.  I think it would be the same in the dog-fighting module.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Lol Star Ocean. That's MY forte.




I can has both?


----------



## 8bitg33k

stillhart said:


> Yeah, I'm a post-KS backer, but still early enough to have access to everything including the permanent insurance or whatever it was called.  Unfortunately, since they released Arena Commander module, I've been unable to patch the game successfully.  I got sick of trying to redownload a 20GB patch every time I asked it to retry.  I have no idea why they don't release a version that already includes the ******* 20gb patch so we don't have to redownload it if there's a small error somewhere.  So yeah, a bit bitter that I haven't been able to check it out since the boring hangar module.
> 
> For your headphone, I'd recommend the Fidelio X1.  Nice soundstage, really fun, immersive sound signature.  If you're not trying to soundwhore footsteps and such in CoD, you don't need the best "competitive" headphone.  You want one with good soundstage and imaging and then you can just go for a fun sig.  As an example, I loved playing Titanfall on the X1 because you couldn't really soundwhore in that game, but it was fantastic at letting you hear exactly where bullets were coming from when they whizzed by your head.  Using a "fun" bassy headphone like the X1 made the titans sound SO awesome, it was super fun.  I think it would be the same in the dog-fighting module.




Fidelio X1 it is then!


----------



## Evshrug

Thumbs-up Emojii


----------



## Change is Good

Crap-face Emoji


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


>




At least it's happy.


----------



## Jason Bourne

Is that a new Mixamp Pro I see on the Astro website?!? Was randomly surfing and came about it. Has anyone reviewed it and compared the amp to the older editions? Improvements? Sorry if this is old news, I just came about it now!


----------



## Stillhart

jason bourne said:


> Is that a new Mixamp Pro I see on the Astro website?!? Was randomly surfing and came about it. Has anyone reviewed it and compared the amp to the older editions? Improvements? Sorry if this is old news, I just came about it now!


 
 It's just an aesthetic redesign.  Same as the last edition, functionally.


----------



## Jason Bourne

stillhart said:


> It's just an aesthetic redesign.  Same as the last edition, functionally.


 

 Oh k. Thats disappointing. Oh well, money saved I guess


----------



## lenroot77

I have an x7 and am from theicurrent frigid Midwest, my house is dry and there is static abound at times. Often when my headphone cable drags on the carpet I experince popping thru them. Anyone else experience this? Possibly an x7 thing? My syba also registers and unregisters. Anyone else experiencing this? Comments/ suggestions?


----------



## PacoTaco

lenroot77 said:


> I have an x7 and am from theicurrent frigid Midwest, my house is dry and there is static abound at times. Often when my headphone cable drags on the carpet I experince popping thru them. Anyone else experience this? Possibly an x7 thing? My syba also registers and unregisters. Anyone else experiencing this? Comments/ suggestions?




That's just the cable. It'll happen with anything.


----------



## Fleat

lenroot77 said:


> I have an x7 and am from theicurrent frigid Midwest, my house is dry and there is static abound at times. Often when my headphone cable drags on the carpet I experince popping thru them. Anyone else experience this? Possibly an x7 thing? My syba also registers and unregisters. Anyone else experiencing this? Comments/ suggestions?


 
 I get the same issue with the Syba on the PS4. It will make a popping noise and it will say "Microphone has disconnected" followed immediately after by "Microphone has been connected". This seems to happen even without my cable dragging on the carpet so I guess it is maybe just static feedback back loop through the Syba. It doesn't seem to break anything really, but occasionally the people in my party chat can hear the popping noises.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, it's not so much due to the cold, but moisture freezes and thus winter is a very dry time, allowing the buildup of static electricity.

That said, I don't normally drag my cables off the ground (have the luxury of leaving my Headphone near my seat), so I don't hear those crackles, and is think that the rubber shielding on the wires would prevent static anyway so long as the shielding wasn't ripped or something.


----------



## Roachpuffs

Hello All!
  
 I need some help.  I just received my new vmoda XL pads along with the vmoda boom mic.  My set up is PS4 to Modi Uber 2 via optical.  Modi to Magni Uber 2 via RCA.  Vmoda m 100 into Magni.  So now that I have my mic, I can't get it to work.  I tried plugging it into the Magni but it's a no go.  Anyone know if it is even possible to hook up the boom mic into my amp?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## hilyou

The Magni 2 Uber doesn't have any mic functionality so you're probably going to need a y splitter and plug that into the end of the V-Moda Boom mic. Connect the headphone end to the Magni 2 Uber and then the mic end into the Dualshock 4 controller or into a Syba USB adaptor. You will also probably need a y splitter for the Dualshock 4 since game chat audio will be transmitted through the controller if you plug a mic in. 
  
 The best way to get chat IMO is to use the Syba USB adaptor, and connect the mic end of the splitter in to the Syba mic port, and then route the chat audio into some sort of channel mixer and then connect that to the Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## IcyRhythms

I really don't want Razer anything. After owning one of their mice and mousepad, I'll pass on Razer products for sometime. It seems the Sennheiser G4ME One's may be my best option, but, willing to hear more suggestions. Also, I already own a pair of Sennheiser 598's with a an Audio Technica mic on the side. I'm not looking for better quality sound. Just an all in one solution with good noise cancelling on the mic. The AT mic I have now delivers good quality but it also picks up everything in my home. My dog has a big mouth and barks at everything. I'm also not the only one who lives here.


----------



## FireFreak111

I really want to get the X7 this year, but I feel like it was a missed opportunity to skimp out on HDMI. I mean, the only format you can bitstream/decode is Dolby Digital, and considering the majority of blu-ray's are DTS/DTS-HD, it sems like it could have made this $400 beast far more of a no-brainer. It's also got the bandwidth for PCM 7.1. Otherwise you have to rely on Windows decoding/mixing. DTS-HD/TrueHD decoding is very rare on the software front.
  
 Besides that, it seems like an excellent Amp/Mixer/DAC for a multi-device setup. Thinking of pairing it with a Phillips X2, my CAL 2's side band cracked. Second model to do so, no warranty because of that. The general consensus seems to be that the X2 is a fun headphone for games and movies, and has a wide enough soundstage to still be useful in competitive gaming, even though it may not excel compared to some other headphones like the AD700, right?


----------



## Roachpuffs

hilyou said:


> The Magni 2 Uber doesn't have any mic functionality so you're probably going to need a y splitter and plug that into the end of the V-Moda Boom mic. Connect the headphone end to the Magni 2 Uber and then the mic end into the Dualshock 4 controller or into a Syba USB adaptor. You will also probably need a y splitter for the Dualshock 4 since game chat audio will be transmitted through the controller if you plug a mic in.
> 
> The best way to get chat IMO is to use the Syba USB adaptor, and connect the mic end of the splitter in to the Syba mic port, and then route the chat audio into some sort of channel mixer and then connect that to the Magni 2 Uber.


 

 Thanks Hilyoy!  I was able to spend more time this morning messing around with different connections.  I found the correct combination.  Just in case others are wondering how to get your Vmoda boom mic to work with the PS4, use the following:
  
 1. Vmoda boom mic into the Vmoda share port (dongle) of the cable.
  
 2. The 45 degree male plug goes into the PS4 controller (This is next to the dongle).
  
 3. The other end of the Vmoda share cable connects to a y splitter with two male connectors (The y splitter that comes with the boom mic).  These are not labeled.  One male is for audio the other for the mic.
  
 4. Connect the two male plugs into another y splitter (female plugs), like the one that comes with the Astro Mixamp (These are labeled). 
  
 5. Then the male plug goes into your amp.
  
 6. Remember to set the PS4 to the Chat Only setting so the sound is not driven by the controller.
  
 This setup gives me the extra cable length needed to game from my couch and the volume control on the boom mic eliminates the need to get up and lower the volume from my amp when needed.  Now I can be a true couch potato!
  
 With three kids and a wonderful wife, I can finally game in peace!!!


----------



## Roachpuffs

Sorry about the spelling mistake Hilyou!


----------



## 8bitg33k

I do have a quick follow up question - regarding the Sennheiser G4ME One's. Since they have audiojacks instead of USB, where does the actual processing to Surround sound take place? Is this done by my soundcard or by the headphones themselves? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 EDIT: Scratch that - obviously they are Stereo headphones, not Surround Sound...


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> I do have a quick follow up question - regarding the Sennheiser G4ME One's. Since they have audiojacks instead of USB, where does the actual processing to Surround sound take place? Is this done by my soundcard or by the headphones themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Soundcard. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever want a headphone that does its own processing. You always want a unit like an Astro Mixamp, Sound Blaster, ect ect.
  
 I'm only responding after the edit since I want other people who are new to read this.


----------



## 8bitg33k

Yeah - that was my take away from the reading I did and the responses I got here from you guys 
  
 I just ordered a pair of barely used Fidelio X1!!


----------



## dakanao

8bitg33k said:


> Yeah - that was my take away from the reading I did and the responses I got here from you guys
> 
> I just ordered a pair of barely used Fidelio X1!!


 
 IMO the Philips X1 is nothing special without a dedicated amp/DAC


----------



## Stillhart

dakanao said:


> IMO the Philips X1 is nothing special without a dedicated amp/DAC


 
  
 I definitely sounds _better _with good amping, but when I was playing Titanfall with it, I didn't use any amp (besides my Recon3D) and it sounded awesome.


----------



## dakanao

stillhart said:


> I definitely sounds _better _with good amping, but when I was playing Titanfall with it, I didn't use any amp (besides my Recon3D) and it sounded awesome.


 
 I was listening to music on my onboard soundcard, and they sounded mediocre. For instance, my Creative Aurvana Live sounds clearly better  than the X1 with my onboard soundcard.


----------



## Stillhart

dakanao said:


> I was listening to music on my onboard soundcard, and they sounded mediocre. For instance, my Creative Aurvana Live sounds clearly better  than the X1 with my onboard soundcard.


 
  
 Oh, were we talking about music?  I thought we were talking about soundstage, imaging and fun factor as it relates to playing Star Citizen. 
  
 Also, I really wouldn't recommend anybody use their onboard soundcard for music OR gaming...


----------



## dakanao

stillhart said:


> Oh, were we talking about music?  I thought we were talking about soundstage, imaging and fun factor as it relates to playing Star Citizen.
> 
> Also, I really wouldn't recommend anybody use their onboard soundcard for music OR gaming...


 
 They were pretty good from my Turtle Beach DSS though...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X1 requires very little. Of course onboard soundcards shouldn't be used for good headphones...unless it's a last resort.


----------



## 8bitg33k

For the time being my Xonar DG will have to do, sinc eit's mainly for gaming anyway. Or I might just pick one up this weekend. What soundcards/ DACs can you recommend for the X1? I would need Surround Sound for Star Citizen though.
  
 EDIT: And no, we were not talking about music at all. For that I have my Audioengine Speakers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, the Xonar DG has a really high output impedance, so it's not exactly ideal for the X1 (the DG is the internal equivalent to the Xonar U3, and both have 23ohm output impedance). I assume, like the U3, the DG has an option to send audio out as an optical signal?). You could get a cheap Fiio D03k as a dac, and a cheap amp to accompany it, like a Fiio E5 or something. But then, by that point, may as well get an E17, which has an optical input/amp.

I'm selling mine for like $70 total if anyone is interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW guys, I know I said I wasn't but *Razordog* had such a good on it, I had to....I bought something. 

This ensures that I have to return the 1540 though. I'll let you guys know when it gets here. I'm gonna try and keep the 1540 while the other gets here so i can test out a pad swap. Probably gave it away right there.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys, I know I said I wasn't but *Razordog* had such a good on it, I had to....I bought something.
> 
> This ensures that I have to return the 1540 though. I'll let you guys know when it gets here. I'm gonna try and keep the 1540 while the other gets here so i can test out a pad swap. Probably gave it away right there.




TH600... duh


----------



## 8bitg33k

The Xonar does have optical out, yes. But I need something capable of Surround Sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DG will send surround to the E17. Connect the E17 to the DG via the DG's optical out, and in the Xonar options, you have to send out the virtual surround signal. I lost my U3, so i forgot exactly what options it was, but it's there.

You can literally have the E17 plugged in via USB for your stereo needs, and then switch to OPT on the E17, and it will take the sound from your DG. Of course, you'll have to change this on your sound settings on your computer as well.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> The DG will send surround to the E17. Connect the E17 to the DG via the DG's optical out, and in the Xonar options, you have to send out the virtual surround signal. I lost my U3, so i forgot exactly what options it was, but it's there.
> 
> You can literally have the E17 plugged in via USB for your stereo needs, and then switch to OPT on the E17, and it will take the sound from your DG. Of course, you'll have to change this on your sound settings on your computer as well.


 
  
 Or just use optical for everything and WASPI Exclusive mode for music to bypass the surround processing.


----------



## 8bitg33k

Sounds good and PM sent


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> TH600... duh




No, NO. Liar. It's the Stax SR009!


----------



## Change is Good

You have to hold back from even inquiring about an item at Razordog, at times, unless your wallet is really prepared to purchase. Brian will sometimes hit you with a too good to turn down offer. It's how he got me with the 400i


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like helping the smaller stores, especially when they hit you with good deals, even without having to ask. I mostly buy from Amazon for the ease of returns, but if it's a headphone I'm pretty certain about, I don't mind places like Razordog, Headamp, and the like.


----------



## Change is Good

Razordog is the bomb. I've purchased like four headphones from him the last couple years. If I have something on my radar, and he sells it, I will more than likely get the best price from him.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'll keep him in mind if/when the next time comes around. 

What sold me on the TH600 over the TH900 is that it has a slower decay. I've read the TH900 is reeeeally fast with it's bass. I prefer a bit of decay. I hear the sub bass lingers on the TH600, which is the kind of thing I loved about the D7000.

hat, and I would be super OCD about the TH900's cups not getting scratched. Don't wanna deal with that headache. That's one thing I was paranoid about on the D7000.


----------



## Change is Good

Isn't it a D7000 clone or something like that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

FWIH, the TH600 is the more neutral of all the Fostex headphones, and the brightest. The bass isn't as full as the TH900 or D7000, but it is still potent. What actually made me ok about this was comparing the X2 with 1540s. I realized that I didn't mind a brighter, more neutral sound. The 1540 is basically the sound I loved a while back, but I'm evolving. It's almost like there will be a time when the HD800 may be the kind of sound I'm into. Lol. Not YET, but maybe.

In any case, the TH600 still has a very involved bottom end, so I ain't worried about it being thin.


----------



## Change is Good

If you end up keeping it, I'm going to have to ask to borrow it down the line, if you don't mind. I've ALWAYS been curious about the THx00 (the 600 was on my radar when I bought the 1540). Those, the EL-8, PM-3, and the Sony Z7 are all closed headphones I would love to hear, one day. 

Man, I wish there were more meets in our area...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maybe I can test out the 400i by then. See what Hifiman did to my dear old 400.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Maybe I can test out the 400i by then. See what Hifiman did to my dear old 400.




I was just thinking the same thing! Mild bassheads think alike LoL

HiFiMAN clearly went a whole other direction with the 400i. Slightly n-shaped, if you ask me, but with detailed highs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apparently they're thinking of doing a meet in Tampa.


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> I was just thinking the same thing! Mild bassheads think alike LoL
> 
> HiFiMAN clearly went a whole other direction with the 400i. Slightly n-shaped, if you ask me, but with detailed highs.







mad lust envy said:


> Maybe I can test out the 400i by then. See what Hifiman did to my dear old 400.




I want to make square root or ~ shaped sig a thing. Cause they remind me of that.

Biggest difference you'll notice is deeper, more linear bass and no sibilance. The mids are a very awesome and a tad forward. It's also more comfortable for bigger heads.

The he400 has bigger bass and better impact though. It can also be more open after you do the grill mod but not by much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly don't know how it can go deeper, when the 400's bass extending to the absolute nether regions. It's as linear as bass can get, so deeper... sounds inaccurate. Of course, I'll have to hear to see what you're implying.

Currently filling out the non-gaming side of the 1540 review. Need to get this one done soon. Then the COP, which was supposed to come first.


----------



## Change is Good

I just re-directed everyone to the Florida group so we can hopefully get something serious going.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> If you end up keeping it, I'm going to have to ask to borrow it down the line, if you don't mind. I've ALWAYS been curious about the THx00 (the 600 was on my radar when I bought the 1540). Those, the EL-8, PM-3, and the Sony Z7 are all closed headphones I would love to hear, one day.
> 
> Man, I wish there were more meets in our area...


 
 They should be doing a PM-3 loaner program in the coming weeks.  Keep an eye on that section of the forum...


----------



## Change is Good

I'll keep an eye on it. What I'm reading, so far, it's neutral sounding. Not really the kind of closed headphone I'd be into...


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Honestly don't know how it can go deeper, when the 400's bass extending to the absolute nether regions. It's as linear as bass can get, so deeper... sounds inaccurate. Of course, I'll have to hear to see what you're implying.
> 
> Currently filling out the non-gaming side of the 1540 review. Need to get this one done soon. Then the COP, which was supposed to come first.


 
  
 You'll see what I mean. The bass is more linear and the subbass is more noticeable (it's almost a straight upward line into the mids...which are the highlight of this headphone oddly.)  However, the bass on the HE400 is heftier and has more impact...if that makes any sense. I'd say the quality of the HE400i's bass is clearer, but the HE400 can punch you in the face sometimes. I believe there's a review on reddit I read that represented it better: if Audeze LCD 2 was a 10 in overall bass quality, the HE400 would be a 9 and the HE400i would be a 8 (though I'd put it more at a 8.5 personally.) The trade off is better handled highs, amazing mids, and more open soundstage.
  
 That said, I oddly found the HE400 with alpha pads slightly better for immersion, but I preferred the HE400i for using it as an "all around" headphone as it does music better and doesn't have the sibilant.
  
 The best comparison I can is...I would use the HE400 for something like Forza Horizon 2 or a single-player mod of Battlefield (or something.) I'd use the HE400i for something dialog heavy like Dragon Age or Tales of games. And a bit of Shadow of Mordor thrown in.
  
 I always saw the two headphones as like the Baby LCD 2's. HE400 was more like the bass part of it (well, mostly like the old revisions anyway) while the HE400i is like the fazzor'd LCD 2...but with more emphasis on the mids than the bass.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> If you end up keeping it, I'm going to have to ask to borrow it down the line, if you don't mind. I've ALWAYS been curious about the THx00 (the 600 was on my radar when I bought the 1540). Those, the EL-8, PM-3, and the Sony Z7 are all closed headphones I would love to hear, one day.
> 
> Man, I wish there were more meets in our area...


 
  
 I've also been curious about the TH600. I have my eye on the PM-3, though. The balanced prototype they had at RMAF was my personal favorite of the three flavors on display. I'm really looking forward to the final version. Hopefully my Alphas sell before CanJam so I can pick up a set.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> BTW guys, I know I said I wasn't but *Razordog* had such a good on it, I had to....I bought something.
> 
> This ensures that I have to return the 1540 though. I'll let you guys know when it gets here. I'm gonna try and keep the 1540 while the other gets here so i can test out a pad swap. Probably gave it away right there.




Mad's BACK BABY, YEEEEEEEAH!

On a sorta related note, I'm terrible at selling unused stuff. Many of you know this. I had a buyer for my HD700 but he left me hanging  but at least I still have the headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

^Yup, you're becoming somewhat of an audiophile hoarder, I must say...

That's it, now I'm wanting a closed planar with big BASS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In an ideal world, the TH600 would blow me away enough to return the X2, and buy an X7... since I just sold my E17, I'm dacless atm, with only the Vali as my amp. Was contemplating on the X7 anyways, but I'm gonna for sure gonna have to put up my Mixamp and PS3 for sale. I'll probably sell the Ultrasone 15G for a hella cheap too, since the silver accents are like rubbing off for no reason.  Makes a perfect beater, anyways, but that's what my KSC35 is for.

Big bass... oh... how I miss my D7000. I WAS contemplating buying one of the ones on Ebay for almost a G, but then, that's TH900 territory.

Still, for closed anything, I would just run away with the D7000, period. No planar, no thing. Just a D7K, and I'd be done. I'm hoping the TH600 brings back some of that rumbly magic.


----------



## malla1ml

I have the TH900 and love it for gaming and overall listening. While I haven't heard the TH600, I think you'll be very happy with it until you see a good deal on a pair of TH900's


----------



## Change is Good

I've been hearing good things about the TH600, myself. A lot of people in the 1540 thread ended up preferring the latter, however, because of that forward treble. That's why I never picked one up. Will be nice to see impressions from a familiar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

We'll find out soon, though without a DAC, my opinions are gonna be... a bit lacking. I can at least say how well they perform for gaming.

Honestly, if the rumble brings back memories of the D7000, i won't even wanna upgrade. That's all I want. a capable headphone with that Fostex rumble that is unlike anything else. Doesn't have to be 'bassy'. Just has to hit the low notes in that specific way. I think out of this entire gaming crew, only Chicolom knows what I'm talking about. And Feggy, though I can't be certain the TH900 rumbles in that exact specific manner.

I was looking for my Fiio D03K, but then I THINK I sold it to one of you bastards a while back.


----------



## malla1ml

In my experience, the TH900 isn't necessarily bassy.  Instead, when called on to deliver bass deep and hard, it does so with ease.  If you want your ears to wiggle with crazy bass, you can get that for sure with some eq.  I love mine for gaming because when a game calls for that deep low end, it delivers. It really helps with immersion.  Plus, they are super comfortable for long gaming sessions.  I nevered had a chance to own the D7000 but very happy with my Fostex.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I hear how crazy fast and hard the TH900 hits. But I like some decay in my bass. Let it simmer, and linger for a moment. That's what the D7000 did so well for me. It was omnipresent in like....the best way. Ultimately it WAS just a bit too bassy at times, but not because of that lingering bass, but because it was just too emphasized. Had the bass stayed the same in the way it hits but not as 'loud', it'd be absolute perfection. It was near perfection however, to my ears.

Basically like what Philips did with the X2. It hits in the same way as the X1, but not as loudly. It still has a similar rumble to the X1, which I really liked.

Still remember pairing the D7K with the Beyer Headzone. What an experience. Was watching Avatar, and when the jackals attack.... OMG.


----------



## Stillhart

If you decide to sell the Vali and get an X7, let me know.  I've been keeping an eye out for a cheap desktop amp to use with my Recon and I have heard enough about that Vali that I just need to try it at some point.
  
 In other news, still loving the hell out of the HE-560 + NFB-28 combo.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There really is some Magic in these Fostex headphones. Made me choose them over any audeze, Hifiman (and all others)i loaned, owned etc and they are my favorites over anything else, even over the HD 800.

The bass is like no other headphones. I'm a subbass over midbass guy (of course a headphone still needs to able to kick) and these things just go lower and lower and then even louder so the menacing rumble is there how i exactly want it. In the case of the TH-900 the decay is fast indeed but the pronunciation still ever present. I prefer it that way nowadays. HD 800 is fast as well and can kick hard and go low but the lesser overall presence of bass and lack of promunciation is less immersive to my taste.

Then there's that articulated soundstage and Imaging, the immense details and especially that clarity. The perfect immersive headphone for me. Also relatively easy to drive or let's say more to gain from weaker sources.

If the TH-600 gives you something back from the d7k's decay and rumble and comes close to its brother then you are in for a damn treat. You can always mod it if the the treble a bit too hot as it's a bit more noticable.

And the black Magnesium cups simply look beautiful. I actually never dropped a headphone ever. Just takes a few seconds more make sure they stay at their place.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stillhart, the Vali isn't mine. It's headphone.gurus. It's 'basically' mine though.


http://noblehifi.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/fostex-th-600-review.html



^I wanna rage so hard at myself for letting that beauty go twice.

This review states ALL the things I wanna hear about the TH600. Please god let it be true. I simply can't contain all this excitement.

The D7K's cups were so beautiful, but damn it if I didn't absolutely hate the care you need to keep them from getting effed up somehow. 'Babying' is putting it lightly. I feel more secure with the TH600's finish. And I LOVE all black.

Someone needs to find me some felt material or something with a sticky back that I can paste directly onto the pads. 


In other news, I miss chico...



That guy is totally in the future, playing mental reality games, with eyes closed, and no controller.


----------



## Evshrug

^too bad he's playing on an old iMac. Perhaps over 5 years old?
I've played games with my mind as the controller, for real. You get this goop and paste wire leads to the top of your head and just behind your ear, and the computer is able to give you points for reaching and maintaining a specific mental state, like calm focus scored best. It's exhausting though, after 30 minutes or so I almost invariably fell asleep. It's just EEG feedback tied to making onscreen actions occur when you score well, but it was interesting. Kinda like weight lifting for the brain.

I miss chico too. He often would pop in with a witty quip, sometimes diffusing things, and I always enjoyed having him around. And now change has splintered off to his own audio upgrade path...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why can't we ever sit still with our gear. Lesson I need to learn, though when I inevitably get the X7, I'm pretty much covered for future virtual surround, dac, and SS amp duty. Hell, I've stuck with the E17 this long. 

Just need to see how much to sell the 5.8 for, with the battery pack.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Why can't we ever sit still with our gear. Lesson I need to learn, though when I inevitably get the X7, I'm pretty much covered for future virtual surround, dac, and SS amp duty. Hell, I've stuck with the E17 this long.
> 
> Just need to see how much to sell the 5.8 for, with the battery pack.


 
 You might want to ask yourself that question 2 years from now lol even after owning that X7. New tech is bound to appear, especially with all that DTS Headphone X tech. Still new tech but with the way AUDIO is being marketed now and more info is being scattered through out the interweb..........
  
 yeah....
  
 I would upgrade to the next best thing.
  
 Wait thats Samsung's slogan smh
  
 Edit: Ev's, you asked me about the 9500.....ill get back to that after I finish my game of BF4 with these K7XX


----------



## goldie87

Hey guys!
  
 I recently bought the ATH-ADG1 headset to go with my PS4. At the moment I am using the headset through the Dualshock 4. I would like to use these cans to there full potential, would I be seeing much of an improvement in SQ by getting some sort of amp and going through that instead? I believe the headset is 38ohm only...
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

Ha. Eighteen months ago when I first bought the 1540, I had the K712 to compliment it. The K7XX is now in its place (almost equivalent), something I'm not too mad about because of it being almost half the price. I was also able to enjoy some other open headphones, in between, (1840, K612, HP200, X2 sparingly). I learned a lot, mainly that I don't need to keep switching around as much as I used to. The K7XX is never going anywhere, the 1540 has stuck around this long, and my IEMs have not changed in about a year. This is damn good compared to when I first joined. The 400i, on the other hand, is a unique addition that I am just now learning to appreciate more. It is more neutral sounding than the slightly bassier K7XX, kind of like the 1840. It's welcoming and distinct enough to warrant keeping it along with the others. That plus the cheap price I paid 

As for sources, amps, and such, I think that is the one thing we can all agree is the least worrying as far as switching. Once we find something we like and is suitable for our needs, we tend to stick to what we know. I just wish we could say the same for headphones.  Luckily, we have a classified section to help us with our journeys.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Stillhart, the Vali isn't mine. It's headphone.gurus. It's 'basically' mine though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Bummer on the Vali.  Re that dude on the Mac: Mac's are so easy to use that you don't need a controller!  Controllers are super confusing anyhow, with all those buttons.  Gimme a non-confusing 1-button mouse any day!


----------



## rudyae86

goldie87 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I recently bought the ATH-ADG1 headset to go with my PS4. At the moment I am using the headset through the Dualshock 4. I would like to use these cans to there full potential, would I be seeing much of an improvement in SQ by getting some sort of amp and going through that instead? I believe the headset is 38ohm only...
> 
> Thanks!


 
 You will probably notice some improvement but nothing huge. Dont remember if that headset is the open back or close back? They are pretty much the AD700X and A700X, just with an attached mic. But if its loud enough plugged straight into the dualshock, then you dont need an amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Where is The Chicolomist anyway? I miss him too.

Forget about DTS HPX and stuff. The future will be "back to the roots" stuff thanks to VR. Finally geometrical data again. No more Thief 2014 style "is the guard whose footsteps i hear on the same level as me or is he above/below? Let me look." 

Pathetic. Sound Rendering should be natural. 
Damn, Thief 2 was far superior in sound, 15 years ago.

I don't care about all these helmets and glasses, just their necessary byproducts.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm sure he's around. I recently saw his X1 in the classifieds, now closed. Don't be surprised if he shows up with some sexy pictures of his newest addition.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What gear is he on now anyways? I believe it was the K712 and X1 (until sold) right? I can never tell with that boy. 

Nameless too. He's total MIA.

Feg, yeah that's the one area I have never seen any improvement on... vertical cues. People swear they hear it on stuff like the Mixamp and whatnot depending on game, but I call BS. You can't create vertical cues out of of simulated HORIZONTALLY located speakers. Closest thing I ever experienced to something like that was with the DT770 Pro 80 on Lost Planet 2's intro or something, can't remember. It was a helicopter cutscene.


----------



## Change is Good

Naw, I think he sold the K712 a long while back. I remember him not having one when we toured the K612 and K712. That boy gots somethings ups his sleeve.

Nameless bought the K7XX, I think, that's why he's MIA.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People come and go. I guess they found a safe place to stop the pursuit of audio bliss. I should've stopped that road multiple times before. I think the closest I got was when I had the D7000 (1st) and HE-4 (1st), the Lyr and the E9. I loved the D7000 off the E9, and the HE-4 off the Lyr. That was sheer, ignorant bliss. Then I ended up offloading everything due to some financial crisis (out of the many, meh).


----------



## Change is Good

I'm damn close to that safe place. I thought I was already there for a while, but the 400i showed me what I was somewhat missing, a headphone with beautiful vocals. Not that the K7XX or any of my prior open headphones lacked, they just ate not on par with the 400i.

I just need to sell my F887 and get a portable amp to drive my full size cans when I feel like laying back and not at my desk (should have just kept my E12). Then I'm set...

And, meh, you know us Hispanics are terrible with money


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I google searched D7000 and HE4, and of course I'm the first thing that pops up. OMG, I owned the two nearly 4 years ago. Time... it's just flying.

Of course, I ended up selling and rebuying them later, but not at the same time, and with different gear. The HE-4 didn't sound as good (probably because it was lacking the tube warmth that I had with the Lyr), and the D7000 was as awesome as always.

Honestly, I'vbe said this 84948490849080 times, but I do feel I'm nearing my end game headphone-wise. The X1 was already very close to what I always wanted out of an open headphone, just lacking a bit in bass control. I got that with the X2 AND good mids. So as far as open headphones go... I want to say that the X2 is it for me. It has literally all the things I've always wanted out of a headphone. Remember, the 990 was that open headphone for me until the X1 came out. I just needed that extra control. X2 has it. Unless the X3 comes out, and is like the X2 but with a hint more warmth and less treble, that's the only thing that could make it absolutely perfect. or a planar version of that.

As far as closed go, no more beating around the bush... it's gonna be whichever gets closest to the D7000, if I don't just outright end up getting one in the end. TH600 first, if not, TH900, if not, going back to the D7000 assuming I find one. Then, 3rd time's the charm, not ever getting rid of it. I've learned from that mistake 2x before.

As far as amp/dac goes... it depends on how well the X7 does for me. I honestly don't NEED anything better than the virtual surround than Dolby headphone/THX Tru Studio/SBX. All three are just fine by me. So if the X7 does it's standard dac duties well, and the amp section isn't too thin, i think I'm done on this front as well. It's too tasty a device as an all in one. I'll have the Vali as my tube alternative.


----------



## Change is Good

And to think the majority of us started with looking for that one good affordable headphone to game with, the AD700.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, sorry for your wallet indeed. This hobby actually was a big issue with me and my then girlfriend. XD

IT RUINS LIVES.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, I remember having a girlfriend when I first started this hobby. It all makes sense, now...

Sad Emoji face


----------



## IcyRhythms

Some help with this would be greatly appreciated.
  
I really don't want Razer anything. After owning one of their mice and mousepad, I'll pass on Razer products for sometime. It seems the Sennheiser G4ME One's may be my best option, but, willing to hear more suggestions. Also, I already own a pair of Sennheiser 598's with a an Audio Technica mic on the side. I'm not looking for better quality sound. Just an all in one solution with good noise cancelling on the mic. The AT mic I have now delivers good quality but it also picks up everything in my home. My dog has a big mouth and barks at everything. I'm also not the only one who lives here. Are there any mics(forget headsets for a moment)that have great noise cancelling capabilities?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll be getting a x7 as well purely for consoles.

Gave the 5.8 to my brother after i got him the K7xx (which i really liked when i spent a few hours with it at his place). My sister uses a MA-900 i got her with a DSS.

They are all very happy and don't pursue our thirst. They just play and enjoy. Honestly, a Hobby is a good thing to have but we need to let go as well and learn to live with what we like.

I listened to all headphones that can be bought. The experience was rich. I could have bought less and loaned more. Less impulse buys would have been good as well but i put a stop to it. 

If you want to impulse buy then combine it with modding. Buy something old, refresh it. Old stuff can be gotten for cheap. Friend of mine bought an over 20 years DT880 600 for 8€! 8!!!!! Fully working. New velours are cheap, put them on and there is your complete headphone. Even a headband has no otherworldly price. Do you think it's somewhat outdated? No, actually not. Most stuff in headphones hasn't changed much. HD600/650 are very old by now yet still among the best. Sure later headphones kill their bass and soundstage but they still compete very well.

This is better then impulse buying hyped stuff, mostly from mid-fi. And ask yourself if you really have time or realistic usage of more than two headphones (for home usage). Saves you money and from impulse buying


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No lie, before committing to the X2, I was *this* close to buying my 3rd HD650. The price has gone down to justifiable levels, and the HD650 is one of my fave headphones for all day use. It isn't perfect, but the things it does well makes it worthwhile to me.

Going back to headphones you have experienced and loved is better than going into unknown territory. But, I have an itch to try new things, which is why I haven't gone back to safe picks. Other than the 990 and HE400 like a million times, lol.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Yeah, I remember having a girlfriend when I first started this hobby. It all makes sense, now...
> 
> Sad Emoji face


 

 Become a dj like me and you can still have audio gear +girlfriend, visit different countries and get all your flights food drink and accommodation payed for without any grief!


----------



## Yethal

It's been 9 days since I got my X7. Something that came to my head recently.
  
 X7 pairs up so well with consoles because it is an audio equivalent of a game console. PC gamers build their own computers just like audio enthusiasts build their own setups out of DACs, amps, headphones, speakers and a hundred other devices.
 X7 encompasses all of that into a single box just like a PS4 or an Xbox encompasses CPU, GPU, motherboard RAM and power supply into one neat box.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> In an ideal world, the TH600 would blow me away enough to return the X2, and buy an X7... since I just sold my E17, I'm dacless atm, with only the Vali as my amp. Was contemplating on the X7 anyways, but I'm gonna for sure gonna have to put up my Mixamp and PS3 for sale. I'll probably sell the Ultrasone 15G for a hella cheap too, since the silver accents are like rubbing off for no reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I think BaudlyDamage still has his on the buy-sell-trade threads. I was going to buy it myself pretty soon just to see if I'd like it better than the TH600.


----------



## pack21

yethal said:


> It's been 9 days since I got my X7. Something that came to my head recently.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


That's why the X7 is expensive, but some users insist on having all this hardware and features for free.


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Become a dj like me and you can still have audio gear +girlfriend, visit different countries and get all your flights food drink and accommodation payed for without any grief!


 
  
 How's PAX treating you?  I'm jealous that you can preorder the limited edition Penny Arcade Rock Band 4 guitar.


----------



## Yethal

pack21 said:


> That's why the X7 is expensive, but some users insist on having all this hardware and features for free.


 
 Actually I think the price of the X7 is adequate considering it's a DSP DAC headphone amp, speaker amp, 5.1 receiver and it can connect to mobile devices via USB or bluetooth. No other devices in this price range can do that and buying separate devices to cover all these functions would cost 5 times as much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I got home, fed the cat, and as I was walking to my area... a surge of pain shot up my leg. Think of hitting your non-existent funny bone in your elbow (you know that pain that makes you laugh), except it's on the knee, and like 10x worse. I woke up everyone in the house due to the agony, and I couldn't move for a good 15 minutes.

The pain has subsided a bit, but now, it's just there... at all times, on my knee. It's throbbing, and not letting me do anything but focus on the pain.

Gonna have to ride it out like a typical Puerto Rican without health insurance, because well... yeah. Here's hoping it's not something permanent or serious. I'm guess a pinched nerve, or something with a tendon.

I'm typing this and it's hard for me to NOT focus on the pain.

Yay. Life problems. 6 hours and going.

Not looking for pity or anything, just thought I'd share this... issue.


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> So I got home, fed the cat, and as I was walking to my area... a surge of pain shot up my leg. Think of hitting your non-existent funny bone in your elbow (you know that pain that makes you laugh), except it's on the knee, and like 10x worse. I woke up everyone in the house due to the agony, and I couldn't move for a good 15 minutes.
> 
> The pain has subsided a bit, but now, it's just there... at all times, on my knee. It's throbbing, and not letting me do anything but focus on the pain.
> 
> ...


 
 Try breathing in and out a lot, that helpes against pain.


----------



## Evshrug

I asked my gf to help me listen and pick out the differences between some headphones, but in return she asked me to go to a charity dance. Thing is, we both ended up having more fun than we expected! So you just gotta find someone you click with who can also accept your quirks, and you respect them


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> Try breathing in and out a lot, that helpes against pain.



Yeah, maybe your knee is pregnant!

In all seriousness though, it could be a pinched nerve (sounds like it), apart from lidocaine or something else to numb the pain, not much to do. Ice and heat alternating every 20 mins, ibuprofen every 4-6 hours as needed (make sure to eat and not overdose), take it easy.


----------



## 8bitg33k

Another follow up question on the Fidelio X1's. In understand the cable itself has a high impedance (1.8) while the headphones themselves do not (30). I also understand the cable is replaceable. Does anyone have recommendations as to what kind of cable to get to replace the original?
  
 EDIT: I'm thinking of something like the V-Moda BoomPro Gaming, and kill two birds with one stone.


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> Another follow up question on the Fidelio X1's. In understand the cable itself has a high impedance (1.8) while the headphones themselves do not (30). I also understand the cable is replaceable. Does anyone have recommendations as to what kind of cable to get to replace the original?




V-mods boom mic cable and a normal 6ft mono price cable for backup.


----------



## 8bitg33k

It seems I had a good hunch. Thanks PacoTaco!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Put up my Mixamp 5.8, battery pack, tb ps4 chat cable up for sale if anyone is interested.


----------



## PacoTaco

8bitg33k said:


> It seems I had a good hunch. Thanks PacoTaco!!


 
 No problemo my good man.
  
 Man, first world problems here. There's two D7000s in good condition on the trade forum, along with balanced amps+dacs...but I've already got a 295x2 on order and about to order a ultra wide-screen monstrosity of a monitor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also if anyone wants a slim 160gb PS3 for $100 (you pay shipping), lemme know as well.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Also if anyone wants a slim 160gb PS3 for $100 (you pay shipping), lemme know as well.


 
  
 Ah hell man, I'd keep that one since the PS4 isn't backwards compatible and so many JRPGs are going to come out on it in a short time. Iirc anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not interested in the future JRPGs for PS3 though. I'm moving ahead to the new stuff.


----------



## PacoTaco

Fair enough. Persona 4 is just around the corner after all. I don't have a PS4 atm though (I opted for a Xbone,) so I'll end up having to get it on the PS3. A lot of JRPGs are moving to the PC now anyway, which I'm happy about. Then again, bloodborne is calling me....gah.


----------



## Change is Good

Unless one likes playing their old games there really is no use for the PS3, anymore, if you have a PS4. Most AAA titles are steering towards new gen, only, after 2015. We are starting to see it, already, with titles such as Dying Light and others opting to skip last gen versions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Almost done with the Shure 1540 review. Just need to game a bit with it, but the review is pretty much done. It has definitely impressed, and I can spoil something by saying that if you like bass and a clear upper range, soundstage for a closed headphone, and comfort, the 1540 is a definite top contender. Change wasn't wrong about it, at all. At another point in my life, I'd have considered this endgame for a closed v-shaped headphone. Once I'm certain on it's gaming prowess, I'll finish the review, and move on to the COP which I had started reviewing prior to the 1540 arrival. Then... the TH600!

So basically 3 phones for review in the immediate future, in addition to the X2 review soon inbound.

BTW, my leg is getting better, thank goodness. Had to be a pinched nerve.


----------



## Evshrug

I was just going to ask about your leg, good to know!


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

If I own a AKG K712, should I waist $ in buying a X1/X2? Would a hd 598/pc 363d be better then AKG k712 in terms of listing for footsteps? and what you guys meant when said that AKG k712 it's hard to drive? I saw that it was recommended the Magni 2 amp for it! Would I need it down the line? I'm sorry for the Noob questions but I'm just getting into Audiophilie and bad English lol Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

badboybrazil said:


> If I own a AKG K712, should I waist $ in buying a X1/X2? Would a hd 598/pc 363d be better then AKG k712 in terms of listing for footsteps? and what you guys meant when said that AKG k712 it's hard to drive? I saw that it was recommended the Magni 2 amp for it! Would I need it down the line? I'm sorry for the Noob questions but I'm just getting into Audiophilie and bad English lol Thanks!


 
 K712 is probably good enough. An amp will help it though.


----------



## bitcloudrzr

My post got submitted so late I guess no one saw it. Currently using a pair of 598s with an iDevice mic cable plugged into the Dualshock 4 controller. Sound quality and soundstage are unbelievable, I've tested the Elite 800s and they are nowhere near that level of positional audio. I've wanted to use something for virtual surround for a while and my one complaint about the mic cable is if I mute the mic, i would have to unplug and plug in the headphones again. Same goes for starting up the PS4, I would have to wait for the controller to register before plugging them in.
  
 I tried to use the 598s with a ModMic into an Astro Mixamp and my voice kept fading in and out. Tried a bunch of solutions and another mic still had the same problem so I just returned all of it.
  
 The Astro Mixamp didn't work with the in-line mic, if I split the mic and sound, would it work with the X7?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can guarantee that the Mixamp 5.8 w/Turtle Beach chat cable will work with your 598 and modmic on the ps4 ... just saying.... there is one on sale too. :wink_face:

If it didn't, it'd be the modmic's fault, not the Mixamp, as I can attest to mine working without problems. A few mic volume adjustments on the ps4 settings is all that needs to be done.

My guess for the X7 is that you'd need....

http://www.amazon.com/Tritton-PlayStation-Headsets-Headset-Adapter-4/dp/B00P94G2IG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1425836465&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm+chat+cable

Something like that between the DS4 mic input and the X7's mic input.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The only problem I see here is if you have to be pretty close to the X7 at all times. I know if/when I get an X7, I'll be using some very long optical, and usb cables so the X7 can be closer to my seating area. I leave my laptop pretty far from where I sit, and just send the image to my TV and use a wireless keyboard/mouse.

That's one reson I'll miss my Mixamp 5.8, though where I'm at now, the Rx unit is attached to a long 3.5mmn cable that goes to my Vali which is where I sit/rest.


----------



## bitcloudrzr

mad lust envy said:


> I can guarantee that the Mixamp 5.8 w/Turtle Beach chat cable will work with your 598 and modmic on the ps4 ... just saying.... there is one on sale too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm sure it wasn't the ModMic cause I tried a desktop mic and it was doing the same thing. 
  
 How would that cable you linked work?
  
 Honestly I would get the Mixamp over the X7 just because of the price difference. I do sit at a desk and use a gaming monitor for anything multiplayer so I'd be right beside the amp.


----------



## Yethal

Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
 Personally, I'd just wait till the PS4 gets bluetooth audio support so we can just pair the X7 with PS4 wirelessly. For now something like syba audio adapter would work nicely
 Syba > mic input > modmic
 Syba > headphone output > 3,5mm to rca cable > X7 line in input


----------



## bitcloudrzr

yethal said:


> Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
> Personally, I'd just wait till the PS4 gets bluetooth audio support so we can just pair the X7 with PS4 wirelessly. For now something like syba audio adapter would work nicely
> Syba > mic input > modmic
> Syba > headphone output > 3,5mm to rca cable > X7 line in input


 
 I guess I should give up on trying to get a clean setup with this stuff lol.


----------



## Yethal

bitcloudrzr said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
> ...


 
 It's entirely possible, when gaming on a desk. Just buy cables as short as possible and then mixamp+amp should be pretty clean.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

yethal said:


> K712 is probably good enough. An amp will help it though.


 Thx btw it's there any good portable amp/dac that I can use with my iPhone/iPod and also pc/console with a mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

badboybrazil said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > K712 is probably good enough. An amp will help it though.
> ...


 
 Fiio E12


----------



## Change is Good

Also the Cayin C5, which is what I'm looking at if I find one for the right price. I've read it' more true to the source without coloring the sound like the E12 does. Soundstage is a bit wider, too.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Fiio E12


 
  
  


change is good said:


> Also the Cayin C5, which is what I'm looking at if I find one for the right price. I've read it' more true to the source without coloring the sound like the E12 does. Soundstage is a bit wider, too.


 
  
  


badboybrazil said:


> Thx btw it's there any good portable amp/dac that I can use with my iPhone/iPod and also pc/console with a mixamp?


 
  
 You can't use a DAC with your Mixamp, since that's already a DAC.  You can use an amp, and the two suggested are supposed to be very good for the money.  
  
 I believe something like the E17 can be used as an amp/DAC on your phone and just an amp on the Mixamp.


----------



## bitcloudrzr

If I use the Astro Mixamp, would I need to plug a chat cable into the DS4? That might have been where I messed up.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, are you waiting for the TH600 to arrive before posting the 1540 review? Or will you just be adding a comparison later on?


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Thx guys I will look in to it! But Cayin sounds good for what I was reading but not that many sellers option to buy yet!


Btw I was at Pax East Friday and I came across this company http://www.edgeprogaming.com/store#!/c/0/offset=0&sort=normal

They sell this Headsets upgrade kit for comfort and better sounding. They told me that the bass would improve on my Astro A40! They also have it avalible for a lot of other headset brands include Sennheisers! Kinda price tho!


----------



## Yethal

bitcloudrzr said:


> If I use the Astro Mixamp, would I need to plug a chat cable into the DS4? That might have been where I messed up.


 
 One end into the controller port on the mixamp, another into the DS4
  


badboybrazil said:


> Btw I was at Pax East Friday and I came across this company http://www.edgeprogaming.com/store#!/c/0/offset=0&sort=normal
> 
> They sell this Headsets upgrade kit for comfort and better sounding. They told me that the bass would improve on my Astro A40! They also have it avalible for a lot of other headset brands include Sennheisers! Kinda price tho!


 
  
 The combined cost of an A40 plus this upgrade kit will yield You Phillips Fidelio X1 + V-Moda Boom Pro + another PS4 game. Totally not worth it.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).




Hey! Evshrug's workaround is to get a USB mic instead of a ModMic!


----------



## Change is Good

Ain't no sunshine when she's gone...


----------



## oscarc

yethal said:


> Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
> Personally, I'd just wait till the PS4 gets bluetooth audio support so we can just pair the X7 with PS4 wirelessly. For now something like syba audio adapter would work nicely
> Syba > mic input > modmic
> Syba > headphone output > 3,5mm to rca cable > X7 line in input




Does anyone know if a similar workaround can be used to get chat with the X7 and XBOX One? I am considering replacing my MixAmp Pro 2013 and upgrading to the X7. The other concern I have is how long the AC adapter cord is for the X7. My setup is in the basement and where I sit, an electrical outlet is not nearby. I could plug it into the back of my receiver, if it's long enough.


----------



## Yethal

oscarc said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
> ...


 
 Since Xbox One does not output chat audio via USB it should work the same as with PS4
  
 Xbox Headset Adapter > 3.5mm mic/headphones splitter > mic end > microphone
 Xbox Headset Adapter > 3.5mm mic/headphones splitter > headphones end > 3.5mm to rca cable > rca input on the X7
  
 As for the AC adapter, the cable itself can be replaced with a longer one if necessary as it uses the standard dual pin power plug (the same as the one on the back of the PS4).
  


evshrug said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Modmic 4.0 works without any issues with X7 and the PS4 (had to use Evshrug's cable-mess workaround but it worked).
> ...


 
 Yup, buying another mic for as much as the previous one to provide compatibility with another device that's three times as expensive as it's predecessor is the very definition of the word workAROUND.


----------



## Faceman

Hello, long time fan of the guide and I recommend it any chance I get.
  
 I am looking for some new headphones and am having a difficult time figuring out what it is that I want.  I currently have some Superlux HD668Bs(with velour pads, love the velour) paired with a FiiO E10K.  I love the Superlux, for $30, these headphones are so effing amazing.  They sound way above what their price would suggest, but they are still lacking in some areas.  For a budget headphone, they are perfect, but I'm moving past the budget phase. I would love it if you did a review on the Superlux HD668Bs.  Hopefully they will be available on Massdrop again soon.
  
 Part of the reason I have held off on buying new cans is because I want to make sure I am getting an upgrade.  Some of the headphones I have tried in stores, mostly Sennheisers don't warrant the $200+ price tag, because I am not hearing a $200 improvement in sound over my Superluxs.  It could be because the in-store trial pairs aren't amped properly, or because they aren't sampling something that is really relevant to what I like, there is always some really obscure never heard of before music being played whenever I go.  I do care a lot about price to performance, but I also care about the better sounding product based on my criteria outlined below.
   
I had previously been looking at just open back headphones, but if closed back headphones are going to give me what I want, then I'm all ears, I'm not as familiar with the closed ones though.  I won't be going in public with these headphones, this is not for an office setting, this is for personal at home use.

  
 I mostly listen to music with my headphones.  Specifically House, Rock, R&B, Rap, Classical, Blues, Pop, pretty much anything but country.  I do want whatever headphones I get to be able to play everything reasonably well.  I'm not going to be investing in multiple pairs of headphones, I just want one that will see me through for many years.  I really enjoy powerful, crisp and clear vocals.  I don't want anything to sound muddled, I want everything to be well represented and work together in synergy. I like to hear details. I like bass, I definitely want there to be enough bass, not too much that it overpowers, but definitely not lacking like I feel my Superluxs are.
  
 Games, I play a wide variety, mostly RPG and FPS, but I dabble in it all.  I do want to be able to locate an enemy based on sound when playing an FPS, but I am not so hardcore that I need to have perfect circumfral awareness, I definitely don't want it to be lacking in this department.
  
 I also watch TV shows and movies, but not as often, and not as much of a priority as music and games.  Something that I really enjoy about the Superluxs, and was enhanced by the FiiO E10K is how good audio in shows and movies sound.  When there is a phone ringing, you can tell where in relation the phone is ringing based on the position of the microphone on the actor or boom.  I also like being able to recognize the sound signature of a room that the actors are in.  Whether it is genuine or if they did a voice over, I can tell because of how crystal clear the sound is.  If they are in a car, a basement, or a conference room, it really shows up with the Superluxs and it makes a difference to me.  I love this.  Its an immersion thing for me.  It brings the show to life and brings me into the situation that the actors are in.  One thing I find lacking is that when an explosion goes off in a movie or game, I am not feeling the boom that should be there, and I would really like it to be.
  
 Overall, immersion is the most important thing to me.  I want to be put right in the center of the action.  I want to be in the game, or in the show.  I want music to wash over and envelope me.  Transcend me to the recording studio where the masterpiece is being made.  "A masterpiece, a masterpiece, they've got to write a masterpiece to pay the reeent!" 
  
 I'm not looking to spend more than $300, and I won't be buying another pair of headphones for some time after this initial pair.  I am not looking to upgrade from the FiiO E10K. I'd previously been looking at the the Phillips Fidelio X2($300) or HD600($255) on the high end, the Massdrop AKG K7XX($200) as mid range, and Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros 250Ohm($150) as low end, but I'm wondering if maybe I need a closed headset to give me what I am looking for detailed above.
  
 Without being able to try all of these headphones, it is an impossible ask, but I ask nonetheless because I have no way to do the testing myself.  I just hope my description of listening habits and preferences are good enough indicators for you to make a recommendation, and please feel free to recommend something that is not on the list.  The only research I can do is reading reviews about these headphones, so I am in your guys hands, those who have tried a myriad of different cans to give me your recommendation.  I hate it having to come to this, especially with sensory products like headphones, keyboards, mice, it is so user specific, but I have no way of trying these out for myself.
  
 There is also a deal for some fairly used Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro 250Ohms for $125(no case/bag), but I'm trying to talk him down.  It is an online purchase, so I wouldn't be able to test them out, and he has admittedly called their condition "meh".  I don't know if he is referring to the sound quality, or the appearance, but I would be the 3rd owner.  Is buying used headphones ok?  Or should I go for new?  I do have Amazon Prime, so returns through Amazon won't be a hassle.
  
 Thank you for taking the time to read through my lengthy post, I'm really at an impasse on how to proceed.  Others have recommended me to order a bunch of headphones and return the ones I don't like, but I'm not that flush with cash that I can do that.  I just want a jack of all trades headphone that will fit my listening habits, and fit them well, while lasting me at least 3 years.


----------



## CannonCollector

Based on experience the DT990 are pretty good for gaming having clarity and bass impact (which seems to be something you're looking for)... but there is a treble spike which can be annoying for some but i managed to fixed that using a schiit vali (tube amp) and a DSS device... Haven't had any experience with the fiio e10 though. I have a E17 and I've gotta admit it's a better combo with the DT990 than I thought, probably cause I can change the treble down on the 990 and turn the bass up (these have suprisingly good capacity for bass boosting)... 
  
 Only issue is I use them for console gaming only, not PC gaming, I tried them on the PC with movies and they sounded great but for bass heavy music I prefer the SZ1000 although you don't seem to listen to much of that. 
  
 Anyway there are a lot of choices... the fidelio's are great ones as are the AKG's... for PC use maybe the AKG's are a good choice but haven't had much experience with them. As a fan of Beyerdynamic headphones I would recomend the DT990 but better find someone who had experience with all of them to better tell you which one is the best for your experience


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Ok went with The Cayin C5! I can't wait for All this 3 Goodies to arrive!  Got my tax return last week from the State and I'm going Nuts lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why did you get the PC363 if you got the X1? I would've just bought a boompro mic for it, and swap cables when you're gaming with chat...


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah Badboy,
  
 that's a bit too much blowing money away for nothing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've been playing Destiny, mostly for headphone testing, and picking out some areas with easy to manipulate audio cues.

The Shure 1540 definitely can't compete with the X2's rear depth. I mean, not at all. It's very good at it, but I may have to boost the X2's competitive score, simply by the noticeable ease of rear distinction compared to the 1540. Probably an 8.75 vs an 8.

I won't be writing a full comparison, as they aren't exactly comparable in sound sig, open vs closed, etc. I am close to packing up the 1540, but I'm gonna at least hold out for the TH600 first, for pad swapping/testing.


----------



## Change is Good

Haha. Sad that Destiny is only good for testing positional cues, these days.


----------



## Change is Good

Is anyone, here, getting Bloodborne, BTW?


----------



## Stillhart

faceman said:


> Hello, long time fan of the guide and I recommend it any chance I get.
> 
> I am looking for some new headphones and am having a difficult time figuring out what it is that I want.  I currently have some Superlux HD668Bs(with velour pads, love the velour) paired with a FiiO E10K.  I love the Superlux, for $30, these headphones are so effing amazing.  They sound way above what their price would suggest, but they are still lacking in some areas.  For a budget headphone, they are perfect, but I'm moving past the budget phase. I would love it if you did a review on the Superlux HD668Bs.  Hopefully they will be available on Massdrop again soon.
> 
> ...



All the headphones you mentioned are very good. I'd caution you away from the Beyers as they have a " love it or hate it" sound, so not good to buy without listening first.

I admit that the first headphone that came to mind when reading your post was the HD650/600. Those are amazing for the price and can be endgame for many people. Not the best at pure competitive, but you don't want that anyhow.

The one thing to note with both the Senns and the AKG is that you'll really want an amp to get the best out of them. X2 should work better without one.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> Why did you get the PC363 if you got the X1? I would've just bought a boompro mic for it, and swap cables when you're gaming with chat...


 I have the boom pro mic, I starting to collect! I'm collector of Controllers ,Arcade Sticks and I starting now with headphones/headsets! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/IMG]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh. I get antsy when I have too many things. I TRY to my stuff to a minimum.

So close on pulling the trigger on the X7, but wanna hold out until and if I even sell the Mixamp. The E17 and PS3 are gone, so we'll see.


----------



## oscarc

yethal said:


> Since Xbox One does not output chat audio via USB it should work the same as with PS4
> 
> Xbox Headset Adapter > 3.5mm mic/headphones splitter > mic end > microphone
> Xbox Headset Adapter > 3.5mm mic/headphones splitter > headphones end > 3.5mm to rca cable > rca input on the X7
> ...


 
 Thanks. AC adapter for the X7 is dual pin? I thought it is a standard 24V power supply?


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

What's the top 5 let's say headphones to have for Gaming and everthing else you. Describe with number 1,2,3 and so on! Thx


----------



## Change is Good

badboybrazil said:


> What's the top 5 let's say headphones to have for Gaming and everthing else you. Describe with number 1,2,3 and so on! Thx




Here's my top 5 for gaming:

1. HE-400i
2. SRH1840
3. K712/702AE/K7XX
4. K612
5. HP200

Honorable mentions: X2, X1

Disclaimer: YMMV


----------



## Yethal

oscarc said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Since Xbox One does not output chat audio via USB it should work the same as with PS4
> ...


 

 This type of connector right here. The cable between the adapter and the wall outlet can be swapped for a longer one if needed.


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> What's the top 5 let's say headphones to have for Gaming and everthing else you. Describe with number 1,2,3 and so on! Thx


 
  
 Mad used to have some top 10 lists in the guide, but removed them.  Looking at your question now, I can see why.  Not only is is super subjective, it's also really unclear whether you want two lists (one for gaming and one for everything else) or one list of good all-arounders.  In addition, "competitive gaming" (i.e. sound whoring) requires a very specific sound quality, which is generally not good for all-around use.  So you'd have to specify what kind of gaming you want it for.  Also, budget is always an important point, otherwise we could just recommend the SR-009 or HE-1000 and call it a day.


----------



## Change is Good

^You're overanalyzing this, like always.

Edit: My list was strictly gaming, though, out of the ones I've owned/tried...

Edit 2: Top 5 all rounders

1. K712/K702AE/K7XX
2. X2/X1
3. SRH1540
4. Mad Dog
5. HP100/HP150


----------



## gab840

[quote name="Mad Lust Envy" [/quote]

Hey Mle u were a great fan of dt990 itslef and held it for a really.long time for.gaming... You never tried to get a hands on T90 then????


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

stillhart said:


> Mad used to have some top 10 lists in the guide, but removed them.  Looking at your question now, I can see why.  Not only is is super subjective, it's also really unclear whether you want two lists (one for gaming and one for everything else) or one list of good all-arounders.  In addition, "competitive gaming" (i.e. sound whoring) requires a very specific sound quality, which is generally not good for all-around use.  So you'd have to specify what kind of gaming you want it for.  Also, budget is always an important point, otherwise we could just recommend the SR-009 or HE-1000 and call it a day.


 Let's say you can only pick 5 headphone/headsets from a house that went in flames! What it would be? You can pick 5 for all-arounders , 5 for gaming and 5 for music if you want. Would be fun to see what you guys think or have in mind when it comes to it!


----------



## Change is Good

Top 5 for music (I listen to mostly hip hop)

1. SRH1540
2. XBA-H3
3. K712/K702AE/K7XX
4. Mad Dog
5. X2/X1


----------



## Sam21

1) DT990
 2) MA900
 3) HE-400
 4) K7xx
 5) HD598


----------



## Faceman

I think I may hold out hope for the X2s to become available through Massdrop.  The X1s were on there sometime last year, so heres to hoping for the X2s.


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> Let's say you can only pick 5 headphone/headsets from a house that went in flames! What it would be? You can pick 5 for all-arounders , 5 for gaming and 5 for music if you want. Would be fun to see what you guys think or have in mind when it comes to it!


 
  
 In a perfect world:
  
 1 - HE-1000 (best headphone I've ever heard)
 2 - HE-560 (music)
 3 - Q701 (gaming)
 4 - HP100 (cheap, closed, portable, all-arounder)
 5 - LCD-X (portable, all-arounder)
  
 There are definitely some headphones that I haven't heard yet that might end up on the list (like a modded HE-6, a well-driven HD800, any electrostatic, Alpha Dogs, TH900, etc) but yeah.  Really, the HE-1000 is all I'd need.  lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> Mad used to have some top 10 lists in the guide, but removed them.  Looking at your question now, I can see why.  Not only is is super subjective, it's also really unclear whether you want two lists (one for gaming and one for everything else) or one list of good all-arounders.  In addition, "competitive gaming" (i.e. sound whoring) requires a very specific sound quality, which is generally not good for all-around use.  So you'd have to specify what kind of gaming you want it for.  Also, budget is always an important point, otherwise we could just recommend the SR-009 or HE-1000 and call it a day.




Bingo.

Having a specific list for me, essentially makes everyone and their grandmother disregard everything else, when they don't take personal likes and dislikes into account.

Here's what I have to say: You can quote this as a something I will live by.



> There is no such thing as a bad headphone, unless it's truly bad. All headphones have strengths and weaknesses. If you listen to a headphone long enough, you'll come to appreciate what it does well, even when it fails in other areas. This is one reason why I don't believe in burn in. Why? Give any headphone a long enough listen, things will improve, as you adapt to it's strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> I don't do many negative reviews, not because I like every headphone, but because, again, there's truly not many headphones worth giving a completely negative review. Some headphones will be warm, smooth and musical, some will be bright and detail specific, bordering on analytical. If you have a strong leans towards a specific type of sound, chances are, you just will not like a sound leaning the completely opposite direction. This does not make a headphone bad, it just makes it not suited for YOUR personal preference.
> 
> Do I have favorites? Of course. Will I make a list? No. Why? Because everyone thinks my favorites will be what they consider the best, when it's far from the truth. My favorites are tuned to MY preferences. Not yours. You decide what you like based on what you read may be suited to your tastes. Don't just buy stuff because of some 'list'. Do your homework. Something I consider decent, may be something you consider amazing.




Besides, there are so many amazing headphones. My 'list' may be different compared to IF I had all these headphones in front of me once again. Some headphones from 3 years ago may be on my top list if I had them in front of me, so it's hard to compare my entire guide list and pick out just based off not so amazing memory. Some of you know what headphones I'm consistently in love with, like the D7000, and LCD2, though that does not make for what I'd choose for all purposes. The LCD2 is an amazing music headphone, yet I'd choose many others at a fraction of the cost if gaming were top priority.

Personal favorite lists tend to be heavily influenced by what you've heard most recently, if your headphone hobby has literally crossed countless number of great headphones, like I have. This is why excellent headphones like the X2 will be 'chosen' now. It's what freshest on my mind.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Yup, buying another mic for as much as the previous one to provide compatibility with another device that's three times as expensive as it's predecessor is the very definition of the word workAROUND.




So, don't buy a ModMic in the first place? Any custom setup is going to require some finagling, I too wish the X7's built-in mic worked with the consoles, but it doesn't... So I listed as many options as I could think of or someone else confirmed, my personal choice was to just get a Snowball used on eBay for $30 because it required the least cabling mix and sounds better than any of the other mics I've used.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Goddang it Evs. can't we just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm chat cable between the DS4 controller and X7's mic input?



I don't see why this wouldn't work. it's essentially the same thing I use for the Mixamp 5.8 (though I use a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable de to the input on the RX unit being smaller than the X7)

Yes, your controller is directly tethered to the X7, but at least it will work, I assume and take good use of the X7's mic controls....


----------



## Change is Good

If I didn't have the USB chat cable for my 5.8, I'd probably have a Snowball. How is the background nose on that thing? It's about to get really HOT around here and I have a window unit AC.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Having a specific list for me, essentially makes everyone and their grandmother disregard everything else, when they don't take personal likes and dislikes into account.
> 
> ...


 True but I just thought that would be nice to see your guys preference and the feelings that you end up expressing when saying or describing the headphones you guys like!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, you have a big list of headphones I like on the first page.


----------



## Faceman

badboybrazil said:


> True but I just thought that would be nice to see your guys preference and the feelings that you end up expressing when saying or describing the headphones you guys like!


 

 Its an impossible ask.  Its like asking someone to rank their top 5 favorite food dishes.
  
 The list is going to be different from everyone.


----------



## Change is Good

faceman said:


> Its an impossible ask.  Its like asking someone to rank their top 5 favorite food dishes.
> 
> The list is going to be different from everyone.




That's his intention. He just joined and is curious as to what everyone's favorite headphones are, here.




mad lust envy said:


> Well, you have a big list of headphones I like on the first page.




Stubborn ass Puerto Ricans, I tell ya...


----------



## MichaelJames99

X7.......  hmmmmm...  Trying to find the best surround headphone system for movies only...
  
 Right now I am using the Samsung F7500 Bluray player which has 2 HDMI outputs.  The 2nd HDMI carries audio only.  It also has an Optical output. 
 I have a Recon3D THX USB External  feeding a Musical Fidelity X-Can 2 headphone amp and then out to the K712 heapdphones.
  
 If I replace the Recon3D and Musical Fidelity amp with the X7, am I going to hear a significant improvement?  I guess what I am picking up is everything integrated and introducing a High Resolution 127dB DAC .. not sure the amp is better, hard to say.  I assume the surround processing is the same?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Goddang it Evs. can't we just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm chat cable between the DS4 controller and X7's mic input?
> I don't see why this wouldn't work. it's essentially the same thing I use for the Mixamp 5.8 (though I use a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable de to the input on the RX unit being smaller than the X7)
> Yes, your controller is directly tethered to the X7, but at least it will work, I assume and take good use of the X7's mic controls....



2-things:
1.) X7 doesn't have a native TRRS input, so you've got to split mic and audio.
2.) X7's mic only outputs to USB and Bluetooth.
Even with the Beamforming angle set to a pretty narrow field of pickup, the sound of your voice is still affected by the distance it has to travel to get to the mic. That's why I say it's basically equivalent to a Kinect or PS4 Camera, because they all sit across the room, however the X7 can be set to pick up less screaming baby and background song that isn't reflected to it from the wall behind you. It sounded OK from a recording I made on my PC, but Still wasn't too thrilled about it while gaming while I had the Snowball alternative.




change is good said:


> If I didn't have the USB chat cable for my 5.8, I'd probably have a Snowball. How is the background noise on that thing? It's about to get really HOT around here and I have a window unit AC.



So, I've got the Snowball iCE, which is a cardioid-only model, and you've already heard what it sounds like because that's what I used while we played destiny. I had a regular snowball too because the ebay seller I got the iCE from was bad blahblahblah, that has the same mic quality and cardioid mode, but also adds a -5 dB cardioid mode where you have to have your mouth close but it really cuts down environmental noise, and an omnidirectional mode for picking up sound from every direction. Cardioid modes quiet sound from other directions besides in front of it, but you'll still hear other people talking in the same room a bit (quietly) and noises reflected off the wall behind you back towards the mic (which is why my roommate is often heard when he sits across from me).

I gave my regular Snowball to my mom as a gift, because I really only use the cardioid mode, and sometimes her boyfriend likes to record vocal and guitar on his iPad.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Yup, buying another mic for as much as the previous one to provide compatibility with another device that's three times as expensive as it's predecessor is the very definition of the word workAROUND.
> ...


 
 That was not supposed to come off as attacking, more like subtle sarcasm. I tend to not use emoticons in my posts (not just here, enywhere) so sometimes people take my posts as aggressive.


mad lust envy said:


> Goddang it Evs. can't we just use a 3.5mm to 3.5mm chat cable between the DS4 controller and X7's mic input?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'll test that once I get back from work. I'm pretty sure if that cable worked, regular 3-pole minijack cable would work too since X7 doesn't have 4-pole input anyway. 
 Also, 2.50 firmware update for PS4 is on it's way so this might help.


----------



## MichaelJames99

^^
  
 X7.......  hmmmmm...  Trying to find the best surround headphone system for movies only...
  
 Right now I am using the Samsung F7500 Bluray player which has 2 HDMI outputs.  The 2nd HDMI carries audio only.  It also has an Optical output. 
 I have a Recon3D THX USB External  feeding a Musical Fidelity X-Can 2 headphone amp and then out to the K712 heapdphones.
  
 If I replace the Recon3D and Musical Fidelity amp with the X7, am I going to hear a significant improvement?  I guess what I am picking up is everything integrated and introducing a High Resolution 127dB DAC .. not sure the amp is better, hard to say.  I assume the surround processing is the same?


----------



## FireFreak111

I am seriously looking into buying the Philips Fidelio X2, an upgrade from the CAL! (had the CAL! 2 as well, headband snaped on 2 separate cans). I am looking forward to the warm sound, strong bass and wide soundstage, but for $433 AUD ($331 USD) it's an expensive purchase for me. Would I hear a significant improvement in sound? The frequency response is wider, its driver is larger, and its build quality, pads and more are all much higher quality, and the sound signature appears to be exactly what I am looking for in a headphone.
  
 I am looking for a headphone to settle down with for at least 2-3 years, and the CAL! has noticable deficiencies (weaker soundstage than the CAL! 2's (which are an average headphone with alot of bass, so not a great reference), weak, imprecise bass). Maybe I am answering my own question, and I know that headphones are often very subjective (despite clear, quantifiable graphs demonstrating observable improvements). Just wondering for some input.
  
 Music is primarily soundtracks, so soundstage is very welcome. Movies are a huge influence, bass, soundstage and detail are incredibly welcome. Games are also a major pass-time.


----------



## Stillhart

You might also want to consider the X1, which is cheaper and has more bass.


----------



## FireFreak111

I was thinking the X1, but the price in Australia is average $370 AUD, only around ~$50 cheaper. I would prefer a more controlled bass. The X2 has been stated as having a tighter bass, restrained to the lower end while still having good presence. Also, I have a large head, which sort of rules out the X1. 
  
 Also my DaC is an Xonar U7, high output impedance. Will be replaced by the end of the year.


----------



## Stillhart

firefreak111 said:


> I was thinking the X1, but the price in Australia is average $370 AUD, only around ~$50 cheaper. I would prefer a more controlled bass. The X2 has been stated as having a tighter bass, restrained to the lower end while still having good presence. Also, I have a large head, which sort of rules out the X1.
> 
> Also my DaC is an Xonar U7, high output impedance. Will be replaced by the end of the year.



Okay, yeah the price difference is a lot more over here. In your situation, the X2 makes sense.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> That was not supposed to come off as attacking, more like subtle sarcasm. I tend to not use emoticons in my posts (not just here, enywhere) so sometimes people take my posts as aggressive.
> 
> Also, 2.50 firmware update for PS4 is on it's way so this might help.



Thanks for clarifying... Tho on my end, it's not like I flagged your post  I'm sure you'll understand my perspective... I really liked the X7 and want to see more products like it, and wrote a review about it so more people would understand what it offers. I point out a negative in my review, and basically use everything but the built-in mic personally, but feel perplexed that a few people seem to get hung up on that one thing and pan the whole device. More people have bought it than get stuck on the mic it seems, but perplexing is the best word for my emotional level on it, lol.




michaeljames99 said:


> X7.......  hmmmmm...  Trying to find the best surround headphone system for movies only...
> 
> If I replace the Recon3D and Musical Fidelity amp with the X7, am I going to hear a significant improvement?  I guess what I am picking up is everything integrated and introducing a High Resolution 127dB DAC .. not sure the amp is better, hard to say.  I assume the surround processing is the same?



Haven't heard the musical fidelity, the surround processing is basically equivalent, but the X7's DAC and amp are clearly better than the recon3D and stands well on it's own, but also offers the option of passing through to other equipment.




firefreak111 said:


> I am seriously looking into buying the Philips Fidelio X2, an upgrade from the CAL! (had the CAL! 2 as well, headband snaped on 2 separate cans). I am looking forward to the warm sound, strong bass and wide soundstage, but for $433 AUD ($331 USD) it's an expensive purchase for me. Would I hear a significant improvement in sound? The frequency response is wider, its driver is larger, and its build quality, pads and more are all much higher quality, and the sound signature appears to be exactly what I am looking for in a headphone.
> 
> I am looking for a headphone to settle down with for at least 2-3 years, and the CAL! has noticable deficiencies (weaker soundstage than the CAL! 2's (which are an average headphone with alot of bass, so not a great reference), weak, imprecise bass). Maybe I am answering my own question, and I know that headphones are often very subjective (despite clear, quantifiable graphs demonstrating observable improvements). Just wondering for some input.
> 
> Music is primarily soundtracks, so soundstage is very welcome. Movies are a huge influence, bass, soundstage and detail are incredibly welcome. Games are also a major pass-time.



I recently got a CAL!2 from Creative for evaluation, I hear what you mean by soundstage, and overall it's a pretty good headphone for the price. What you get in moving up in price/performance is a little bit better in most areas, so a subtle but broad-reaching improvement. That is, unless you also get a headphone with a different tonal balance/character, like the X2 which is an open headphone with a different house sound.

What the CAL!2 is: little bit boosted bass, decent soundstage for a closed headphone but also a bit of distance, a bit of grain to the sound so compared to a higher-end headphone it's a little less detailed and smoothly transitioning between sounds, and quite comfortable earcups because they're big and squishy enough (wish the headband was just a bit squishier or broader, but not bad distribuion). Overall a good value for the price and a good listening experience, but there are areas for improvement to just polish the experience.


----------



## mindbomb

I made this file for a quick comparison between dolby headphone and standard stereo:
 http://youtu.be/6wFdQPGxKIQ
  
 Turn off any headphone surround before playing it, the effect is already baked in.


----------



## dakanao

firefreak111 said:


> I was thinking the X1, but the price in Australia is average $370 AUD, only around ~$50 cheaper. I would prefer a more controlled bass. The X2 has been stated as having a tighter bass, restrained to the lower end while still having good presence. Also, I have a large head, which sort of rules out the X1.
> 
> Also my DaC is an Xonar U7, high output impedance. Will be replaced by the end of the year.


 
 I don't know how good your DAC is, but the X1 sounds bad plugged straight in a motherboard soundcard. Unamped the CAL! is much better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindbomb said:


> I made this file for a quick comparison between dolby headphone and standard stereo:
> http://youtu.be/6wFdQPGxKIQ
> 
> Turn off any headphone surround before playing it, the effect is already baked in.




Back left and back right actually sound more in front than even the stereo cues.

I found this to be an issue when using DH on PC without an image to accompany the audio cues. Same thing with THX Tru Studio. These non-gaming tests always failed at rear cues.

This is why the tests should be done on a game to game basis, as each game sounds different at positional cues.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Back left and back right actually sound more in front than even the stereo cues.
> 
> I found this to be an issue when using DH on PC without an image to accompany the audio cues. Same thing with THX Tru Studio. These non-gaming tests always failed at rear cues.
> 
> This is why the tests should be done on a game to game basis, as each game sounds different at positional cues.


 
  
 Up up down down left right left right B A...


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

change is good said:


> Up up down down left right left right B A...


 Fatality! Lol. Btw I can't wait for MKX!


----------



## Change is Good

That was an old school code for Contra, my friend, not MK. I don't remember any fatality moves, unfortunately, not even from the most recent MK. I'll be a bit rusty, at first...


----------



## FireFreak111

evshrug said:


> Thanks for clarifying... Tho on my end, it's not like I flagged your post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I was quite happy with the CAL! 2's sound. It was awesome for movies, the soundstage helped alot with the Dolby Home Theater v4 stuff I have going on. The bass had far more presence than the CAL!, but it sounded like it extended a bit too much into the mids. The comfort was great and it looked and felt more premium than the CAL!.
  
 I couldn't recommend anyone the CAL! 2 however, as the two CAL! 2's I had both had a small metal piece that lets the side-bands slide up and down explode outwards. I say explode, as it sprung violently (hit a wall 2 meters away) and cracked the headband on its way out. This was while simply removing the headphone from my head with no extra force, like I had many, many times before. I couldnt warranty the second (they would only do it for the first, provided the second for free), so I had to return to my older CAL!. That's why I am looking for a good headphone that will last much longer.
  
  
 Side note, don't get the Xonar U7. Put a warning up on the front page. It has a driver that doesn't report to applications that it supports 7.1, only stereo. So by default, games only provide Stereo to DHT v4 (dolby headphone algorithm). Only applications like MPC-HC that send the max channels from say a movie or games that let you choose 7.1 actually give you surround sound. I am trying to contact support (tried this months ago, got stupid answers back) to get their driver team to fix this, but the communications is poor (they keep saying I don't get 7.1 because my headphone is stereo, like they don't understand the concept of Virtual Surround).
  
 Also the output impedance is 23ohms. Wayyyy too high. DHT v4 apparently does use the same algorithm as Dolby Headphone for surround (Dolby confirmed this), but it can be confusing. Lastly, if you don't have a modern motherboard with low DPC latency, the sound can become distorted (latency spikes causing clipping) with older USB drivers that have high latency (high latency driver for Xonar U7). Newer motherboards (2012-2013+) do very well on DPC latency, keeping driver overhead to a minimum. Effect is amplified with 24bit 192khz (too much for the driver, higher latency).
  
 I am considering the Creative X7 (great DAC, Amp, mixer, virtual surround is great) but its lack of HDMI may be a dealbreaker considering how many movies I watch with DTS/DTS-HD/TrueHD tracks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, if you watch movies off stuff like the PS4/PS3, Bitstream Mix options basically turn ALL DTS encodings into Dolby, so you will get proper Dolby Digital for your virtual surround devices to decode properly. Just don't use Bitstream direct, as it will keep it as DTS, and you won't get proper surround. Not sure on other devices, but the X7 should work properly on the PS4, with movies encoded in DTS.

The one thing I haven't seen tis work on is non-DTS/Dolby surround.

Also, PC gaming has a slightly different sound compared to consoles in terms of virtual surround.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Up up down down left right left right B A...



C A Left Left A C A B


----------



## mindbomb

mad lust envy said:


> Back left and back right actually sound more in front than even the stereo cues.
> 
> I found this to be an issue when using DH on PC without an image to accompany the audio cues. Same thing with THX Tru Studio. These non-gaming tests always failed at rear cues.
> 
> This is why the tests should be done on a game to game basis, as each game sounds different at positional cues.


 
 are you sure you turned off all headphone surround on your computer before playing the video? The dolby headphone mix sounded like a perfect reference 5 channel layout to me, but if you do dolby headphone again on top of that, it will move the rears to the front, as well as create a bunch of weird echoes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Of course. You do realize I'm not a noob at this.

I'm saying, compared to much, much better presentations of audio cues, the rear surround effects came off a bit forward sounding. As I've stated, doing a similar test on PC (right clicking the speaker icon on the task bar, going to playback devices, right clicking your audio device being used, configure speakers, test (5.1 or 7.1), will give you a similar speaker placement test, and rear channels tend to sound more far left an right, than actually behind you. This is not indicative of how virtual surround will actually sound like in real world gaming tests.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Logitech sale on Amazon? Any headset worth from then? 

http://www.amazon.com/b/?_encoding=UTF8&ascsubtag=6ee3051e1bf94290b3e97386aa7b8e47&at=&camp=1789&creative=390957&force-full-site=1&ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&node=10032977011&rh=i:electronics,n:10032977011&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=geekc03-20&linkId=XYWQQZW4TQZGSICH&utm_content=buffer3b005&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let me just state here, that if anyone ever claims burn in on this thread, I'm gonna block you, so you may as well never address me personally again.

I'm just fed up with that argument on head-fi. People can believe in magic fairies, but I sure as hell am not going to take you seriously.


----------



## Change is Good

Now you know I can never be taken seriously. 

With that said, I recommend people burn their headphones in for at least 300 hours before making proper judgment.

Seriously.

No, not really.

Yeah, seriously.

OK, no, not really.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Now you know I can never be taken seriously.
> 
> With that said, I recommend people burn their headphones in for at least 300 hours before making proper judgment.
> 
> ...




I'll be here all night folks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol. Well yeah. I know you well enough that you'll troll me at any attempt. 

I had deleted my Titan on Destiny so I can start a new one to reacquaint myself with the game. Damn, it's been months since I've played, and it took me a few short sessions to remind me how repetitive and lacking this game is...

Ah well.


----------



## Change is Good

Finally someone understands me! Vatos locos forever!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've had too many friends like you. I'd go crazy if I took those guys seriously. Constant jabs at each other is typical down here. 

Though don't be an ass to our non-latinos. They don't quite have our thick hides. :mad:


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, okay, I'll behaaave.

Never take what I say personally though, guys. I'm being seriously serious too. I know I get under people's skin, but it's all in fun nature.

I'll ease up, though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So tell me how I brought the PS4 to work so I can watch that new superhero Playstation TV show Powers (i think the whole series has just been released on PS Plus)... and I forgot that the extra power cable was the PS3 one... which I sold. 

So here I have a PS4 without a power adapter. GREEEEAT.

Gonna have to find another power cable. Probably the one from my barely used printer.


----------



## Change is Good

Lmao, I need to check that Powers, myself. I'll save it for this weekend. Watched House of Cards Season 3 last weekend.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm behind on many shows. I haven't even touched House of Cards.


----------



## Faceman

mad lust envy said:


> I'm behind on many shows. I haven't even touched House of Cards.


 

 /gasp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your avatar seems fitting, hahaha.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ordered the Schiit Valhalla 2. PLEASE DO NOT GET POSTPONED.


----------



## BigBadWulf

I am very interested in your opinion about Valhalla 2.
 I couldn`t resist so the IFI Micro IDSD arrived yesterday, but I am not very convinced about it.
 It is no Evolution to my ZXR. If I hadn`t the ZXR, I would say wow ok, but I don`t see a big difference and at the Moment I would say, that I only have the "new toy have to be better" syndrome. I have to make more tests, direct compares and test it plugged on the ZXR.
 The mobile aspect is great and a great boost for our castrated european mobiles.
  
 BO2 was superb, but better? Maybe just a Little bit, but not enough.
  
 I`ll test it for a week and if I am still not so happy, I will give Valhalla 2 a try.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Order the Valhalla 2 NOW, the wait times are horrid.


----------



## Shingyboy

I am planning to replace the stock cable for my Philips Fidelio X1. But because of my sound card that I have I only have a 6.3mm slot available. My question is will any old 3.5mm to 6.3mm cable do? or does it have to be a specific cable? If I were to try and find a normal 3.5mm cable and then stick a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter on it would that be better?
  
 And can someone give me advice on where to find cables in the UK as I can't seem to find V-Moda cables anywhere here.


----------



## AxelCloris

shingyboy said:


> I am planning to replace the stock cable for my Philips Fidelio X1. But because of my sound card that I have I only have a 6.3mm slot available. My question is will any old 3.5mm to 6.3mm cable do? or does it have to be a specific cable? If I were to try and find a normal 3.5mm cable and then stick a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter on it would that be better?
> 
> And can someone give me advice on where to find cables in the UK as I can't seem to find V-Moda cables anywhere here.


 
  
 Any 3.5mm/6.3mm cable will produce sound. From what I've read the lower the impedance of the cable the better it will sound with the X1. And you can't really go wrong with an adapter, I use those all of the time on my equipment at home.
  
 A quick search on Amazon.co.uk found this BoomPro cable for 25 quid.


----------



## Shingyboy

axelcloris said:


> Any 3.5mm/6.3mm cable will produce sound. From what I've read the lower the impedance of the cable the better it will sound with the X1. And you can't really go wrong with an adapter, I use those all of the time on my equipment at home.
> 
> A quick search on Amazon.co.uk found this BoomPro cable for 25 quid.


 
  
 I do not need a microphone as I always have one to be honest, I do not really want to pay £25 just for the cable when I already have a mic if you know what I mean. Thanks, I will try and use a normal 3.5mm cable and then get an adapter.
  
 Would this 3.5mm Cable do? I can't tell how low the impedance is though? I really am not sure what to get.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Ok I'm freaking out here thinking that I should bought the Fidelio X2 instead of X1! Am I over exaggerating? I don't care much about the Pads, but what about everthing else? Also how I find out if a cable is low impedance? I have the v-moda but I also what a cable without mic


----------



## AxelCloris

How long should I let pizza burn in the oven before taking it out?
  


shingyboy said:


> I do not need a microphone as I always have one to be honest, I do not really want to pay £25 just for the cable when I already have a mic if you know what I mean. Thanks, I will try and use a normal 3.5mm cable and then get an adapter.
> 
> Would this 3.5mm Cable do? I can't tell how low the impedance is though? I really am not sure what to get.


 
  
 Personally I'd spend the extra 82p on this cable. It looks more in line for headphone use.


----------



## Shingyboy

axelcloris said:


> How long should I let pizza burn in the oven before taking it out?
> 
> 
> Personally I'd spend the extra 82p on this cable. It looks more in line for headphone use.


 
 1.2m is actually not long enough but this cable has some other sizes so I think I will choose the larger size, it seems to be the same make so hopefully that means the impedance will be the same? What do you think of this adapter? or perhaps this one instead. there is quite a large price difference so I don't know if that would make a difference?


----------



## wilflare

okay I have a Soundblaster Zx... which honestly has been VERY underutilized.
 I still use my Audinst HUD-MX1 way more.
  
 I do game on my PC but I don't know it justifies the cost of a soundcard
  
 any thoughts?
  
 (I usually play the multiplatform games on PC, strategy, building sims and the PC-only indies)
  
 EDIT so my question is - should I keep the soundcard? or save the money?


----------



## Outpost31

Hey guys, quick question. Bought the X2's (loving them) just wanted to know what would be an easy quick fix for surround gaming on PC/PS4, been looking at a few USB soundcards as I don't have the space for an internal.
  
 Cheers. Jimbo


----------



## Fegefeuer

DSS, Mixamp, Creative X7


----------



## AxelCloris

shingyboy said:


> 1.2m is actually not long enough but this cable has some other sizes so I think I will choose the larger size, it seems to be the same make so hopefully that means the impedance will be the same? What do you think of this adapter? or perhaps this one instead. there is quite a large price difference so I don't know if that would make a difference?


 
  
 The adapters you linked should do well for your needs. Typically I grab one that looks like it's not cheaply built and go with it. I also use the freebies that came with other headphones. And the cable you linked looks like it could be fine. Just remember that with cables you don't want to have too much excess cord since the longer the cable is the more it will attenuate the signal.


----------



## Change is Good

There's a K612 in the classifieds for $125/obo. Highly recommended for whoever is in need of a more than great gaming headphone.


----------



## pack21

Back to kill with my exchange X7 to X7 LTD.....

It seems X7 LTD drives better my low impedance MA900, a wider and clean soundstage from standard. Or perhaps placebo for playing several weeks in stereo, take my grain of salt.

Not tested yet with the K702, but should no longer make much difference.

Need more time to compare from memory with standard X7.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Ok My X1 was delivered early this morning but Besides the Pads and cable what's the difference between X1 and X2? what'a the flaws that you find on X1 that X2 doesn't have? I paid half the price for a X1 compared with X2. So that's why drove me to buy it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X2 has considerably better control in the bass (the X1 is quite slow and loose bass), clearer and less stuffy, better midrange. Basically, the biggest change is the better bass. The X1 has more of it, but one-notish, and is warmer in tone due to the bass bump bleeding into the mids. The X2 has better layered bass, and is still quite impactful, though not on the level of X1's boominess. If you are a basshead, the X1 is more suited. The X2 is more balanced, while retaining a bit of bass emphasis.

BTW guys, got my TH600 in. The bass goes as deep as I expect of a Fostex/Denon. I mean DEEEEEEP. Whomever says the bass isn't strong on these must be simply relying on mid bass punch. The legendary Fostex dynamic drivers are more known for their thunderous sub bass, not the mid bass. And thunderous it is. Put some Trap and you'll quickly realize these aren't for neutralheads.

I need more testing to see how low it goes, and how close to the D7000 that bass 'feel' is. It does sound like it, but it isn't as much, clearly. The D7000 dominated the sound with the vibration. The TH600 doesn't have the same potency, though it is similar. I'm guessing this is what they mean by better control. I honestly feel the bass is like near the same level of emphasis as the D7000, but the control is a step above. This is one of those cases where I prefer the D7000's looseness.

We're talking about a D7000's 10 on the sub bass dial compared to a 9.5 on the TH600 with better control. I hear the TH900 is even more controlled. Not sure I would've liked that. The quantity is definitely not an issue with the TH600. I guess, subjectively, I like less refinement in my bass. 

Though I may still prefer the D7000, right now, the TH600 is a 9 in my book. Easily my fave closed headphone after the D7000. It does bring back some memories of that Denon sound. Looks like even years later, nothing topples the D7000.


----------



## Decimator

mad lust envy said:


> X2 has considerably better control in the bass (the X1 is quite slow and loose bass), clearer and less stuffy, better midrange. Basically, the biggest change is the better bass. The X1 has more of it, but one-notish, and is warmer in tone due to the bass bump bleeding into the mids. The X2 has better layered bass, and is still quite impactful, though not on the level of X1's boominess. If you are a basshead, the X1 is more suited. The X2 is more balanced, while retaining a bit of bass emphasis.
> 
> BTW guys, got my TH600 in. The bass goes as deep as I expect of a Fostex/Denon. I mean DEEEEEEP. Whomever says the bass isn't strong on these must be simply relying on mid bass punch. The legendary Fostex dynamic drivers are more known for their thunderous sub bass, not the mid bass. And thunderous it is. Put some Trap and you'll quickly realize these aren't for neutralheads.
> 
> ...


How does th600 compare to the X2? Obviously they're very different from each other, but the only headphone I have for reference is the X2 and Im thinking of selling the X2 and getting the th600. Bass box is checked, but how does it perform for gaming/movies in terms of soundstage and detail?


----------



## Change is Good

How spikey is that treble, though? That was always my main concern when looking them up. I can do a little more sparkle than the 1540, but that's it...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's much too early for me to feel comfortable enough to do any valid comparison. The mids are definitely not as good as the X2's. That much is definite. It was to be expected, the Fostex sound has always been a little v-shaped.

Change, it sounds open, and crisp. The treble is definitely not on the smooth side. It's sparkly and sharp. I don't hear any fatigue though.

BTW, OMG it works... and not only does it works, but it works WELL.





Although I swapped a bit early, the bass is still prolific, and the mids aren't any more recessed. In fact, I think the tradeoff here is slightly less treble, and mids are a little more forward. I need to be certain, as I just haven't heard the stock pads for TOO long. Though my initial impressions are all stock. I have to say though, Fostex could sell them with the 1540 pads, and it'd be a sure win as well. They sound stellar. I'm sure there are tradeoffs, which is why I need a lot more testing.

Don't quote me on this, because it took waaaay too long to attach the 1540 pads to the Fostex ring. It's not hard, just not an easy fit.

One thing I noticed and never realized, is that the cups are textured (you can see it on one or two of the images). I like that. I thought it'd be smooth plastic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can I just say, it is an absolute NIGHTMARE to put the stock pads back onto the ring? The lip on the pads is really small, so getting it top all slip over the ring is... atm, impossible.


----------



## Change is Good

Damn that looks sexy. Makes me want to try those pads on the 400i again lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It took me 10 minutes to put the pads back on. In other words, I'll probably just stick with the stock pads. I don't have a problem with them. Whatever material is being used, it's definitely not typical pleather.

But yes, the 1540 pads definitely work on the TH600. I just don't have the patience to go through the ring attachment again. It is a hotdamn NIGHTMARE.

I'm sure you would absolutely love the TH600.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> X2 has considerably better control in the bass (the X1 is quite slow and loose bass), clearer and less stuffy, better midrange. Basically, the biggest change is the better bass. The X1 has more of it, but one-notish, and is warmer in tone due to the bass bump bleeding into the mids. The X2 has better layered bass, and is still quite impactful, though not on the level of X1's boominess. If you are a basshead, the X1 is more suited. The X2 is more balanced, while retaining a bit of bass emphasis.
> 
> BTW guys, got my TH600 in. The bass goes as deep as I expect of a Fostex/Denon. I mean DEEEEEEP. Whomever says the bass isn't strong on these must be simply relying on mid bass punch. The legendary Fostex dynamic drivers are more known for their thunderous sub bass, not the mid bass. And thunderous it is. Put some Trap and you'll quickly realize these aren't for neutralheads.
> 
> ...


 Thx Mad Lust I decide to keep it and buy a X2 as well. Instead I will sell my Tritton 720+ that I have brand new.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So you're gonna keep both the X1 and X2? I think they're gonna compete for headtime. I would suggest something else to compliment one or the other. I feel having both is moot, though perhaps the bass is different enough to use the X1 whenever you want a more prominent bass.


I'm gonna contact Philips again and see about getting that refund for the X2. I WANT my X2, but I'm in dire need of a DAC, and so I feel getting the $300 back so I can put towards the Creative X7 makes more sense. I will eventually re-buy the X2. It's worth it.

This is assuming I don't keep the X2. Right now, I don't wanna part with it, even with the TH600 in hand. I may just say eff it and get the X7 regardless, and live in poverty for a while.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> So you're gonna keep both the X1 and X2? I think they're gonna compete for headtime. I would suggest something else to compliment one or the other. I feel having both is moot.


 I was going to since one it's more for basshead and the other it's more balanced. So what you suggest if I decide to just keep the X2 ?( I still didn't open then X1 yet)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X2 is bassy itself. Not basshead, but it's bass is appreciable. Honestly, I would suggest something closed for whenever you need to keep it quiet. The X2 is so good at pretty much all manner of things, I honestly don't see any reason to have another open headphone, unless you're gonna upgrade.

But you're asing someone who doesn't like to have 10 pairs of headphones in the house. I'm a one open, one closed, one portable kind of guy, at the most. I can get by with one house headphone, and one portable.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> The X2 is bassy itself. Not basshead, but it's bass is appreciable. Honestly, I would suggest something closed for whenever you need to keep it quiet. The X2 is so good at pretty much all manner of things, I honestly don't see any reason to have another open headphone, unless you're gonna upgrade.
> 
> But you're asing someone who doesn't like to have 10 pairs of headphones in the house. I'm a one open, one closed, one portable kind of guy, at the most. I can get by with one house headphone, and one portable.


I see now, the only closed one I have is Beats Studio Wired.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think I would probably hold off on opening the X1 until you've heard the X2. If you love the X2, then I'd return the X1 new. The X1 is NOT gonna be technically better, just different, and sloppier.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> I think I would probably hold off on opening the X1 until you've heard the X2. If you love the X2, then I'd return the X1 new. The X1 is NOT gonna be technically better, just different, and sloppier.


much appreciate your help, Btw which closed headset you recommend from your list under $500 Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well at $500 from a certain place, the TH600 is... awesome. I mean, it was a $1000 headphone at first.

I don't have toooo many closed headphone experience. The 1540 at $400 is great as well.


----------



## PacoTaco

badboybrazil said:


> much appreciate your help, Btw which closed headset you recommend from your list under $500 Thanks!


 
  
 You didn't ask me, but the ZMF Vibros are also a good choice at $499.00. Then again, you do have to pay another $50 for the cable.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> Well at $500 from a certain place, the TH600 is... awesome. I mean, it was a $1000 headphone at first.
> 
> I don't have toooo many closed headphone experience. The 1540 at $400 is great as well.






pacotaco said:


> You didn't ask me, but the ZMF Vibros are also a good choice at $499.00. Then again, you do have to pay another $50 for the cable.



Awesome Thx guys . I will look into it and study then a bit comparing things.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> How long should I let pizza burn in the oven before taking it out?



My roommate thinks you should leave it in till the living room fills with haze.

Axel, I <3 you and your humor ^___^


----------



## calpis

@MLE 
  
 Tell me one thing. HOW DAT BASS BE?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Deeeep as the D7000, and thunderous, but not as resonant, which I miss. The bass resonance on the D7000 was what made it super special sounding. By all accounts though, its like 9/10 of the way there, but more controlled.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Well at $500 from a certain place, the TH600 is... awesome. I mean, it was a $1000 headphone at first.


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Deeeep as the D7000, and thunderous, but not as resonant, which I miss. The bass resonance on the D7000 was what made it super special sounding. By all accounts though, its like 9/10 of the way there, but more controlled.


 
  
 Sounds like I need to listen to one when I'm in SoCal this month. From impressions it sounds like it may be too bassy for my tastes but it can't hurt to give it a listen.


----------



## Evshrug

FYI, the new (and improved, according to Mad's review of the DNA series) Monster headphones are on sale today at WOOT.com. The full size ones are 66% off:

http://www.woot.com/plus/monster-headphones-6


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well the bassiness comes from the lower depths, and isn't invasive like strong midbass can be. It's just 'there', rumbling in the background.

New toy syndrome out of the way, I can say there are a few problem areas, mainly a pretty strong peak at 4.5-5khz, which is fatiguing if music hits that range constantly. The mids are also a bit recessed than what I've been accustomed to lately, meaning it wouldn't be my first choice for an all rounder. It is definitely going to be my movie and fun gaming headphone though.

I guess the X2's generally good at EVERYTHING sound has spoiled me.

Anyways, I switched back to the 1540 Alcantara pads to run some sweeps, and keepn them on for a day. It really does retain pretty much everything of the stock pad's sound, including the bass, though it's a little faster down low., and consequently just a hair brighter in tone. I'd say if the eggshell pads are a nightmare to you, the 1540 pads may be worth visiting. I feel like the stock pads are just a touch more fluid, and deeper sounding, so I prefer their sound. Also, I'm not sure I like female vocals with the 1540 pads. It sounds sizzly.

edit: Wow, the DNA for that cheap? Not bad. I mean, I would still rather get the Creative Aurvana Live for that price, but not bad.


----------



## dakanao

Hey guys, so my brother broke the Optical cable from my DSS yesterday (by accident), and now I'm going to buy a new one.
  
 My question: Will these fit the Turtle Beach DSS just fine?
  
 http://www.allekabels.nl/optische-kabel/5/1237277/optische-kabel.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks fine to me. As long as they don't have a massive metal housing. That one looks small, and should be fine.

Okay, so to hell with swapping pads. I feel if I do it again, I'll end up messing up the pads, regardless of how careful I am. It's not worth it. Hearing the stock pads, it is, more fluid, warmer, and deeper. The frmale vocals aren't as sizzly.


----------



## AxelCloris

Tempted to try a pair of these to see how they handle gaming applications.
  
 http://nss.lear-audio.hk/
  
 I doubt it'll be anywhere near as good as a 5.1/7.1 DSP but it could be better than plain old stereo.


----------



## glow9

I'm considering the x2, are the pads easily replaceable or are they fairly soft and comfortable? Also who would you say is direct competition to it in terms of sound quality and comfort? Do you prefer open vs closed headphones for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I may consider doing something crazy. One thing, and i honestly can't stop thinking about it: The TH600 has a really garish peak at 5khz, which is quite painful to my ears. We're talking about a peak that far exceeds comfort levels whwn you're listening to the TH600 at your preferred volume. As such, it may be the only headphone that I'm actively going to EQ-down. Everything else is is absolutely lovely to my ears.

And lol, the site that shall not be named posted a graph, and the 5khz spike of doom is there as well, which leads me to think Fotex tuned it like this intentionally. Its far different from Tyll's graphs which don't show the spike.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, you are still Mad, but other people have lust and envy for your setups these days 

Do you mean voldemort's blog (that av guy from NY)? I certainly wouldn't judge you for a little tone-down EQ.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Tempted to try a pair of these to see how they handle gaming applications.
> 
> http://nss.lear-audio.hk/
> 
> I doubt it'll be anywhere near as good as a 5.1/7.1 DSP but it could be better than plain old stereo.



Bet it sounds a lot like LH's "awesomifier" circuit, or Dolby Pro Logic IIz


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty soon, my setup will be complete. This is it guys. I've basically catapulted my stuff that way upgraditis will not be hitting me anymore. Something arrives tomorrow, and I'm waiting on a reply for another thing. I'm going to be returning the TH600. Not because it isn't awesome (it is literally 90% of the D7000 for me), but because it's a bit brighter than I'd like for a headphone i wanna listen to all the time.

Brian at Razordog is a pretty awesome guy, really. Putting up with my late night shenanigans.


----------



## Evshrug

Did you get a tax refund or something? Just got mine! You're lucky you're not looking for an engagement ring... When I got my current job I decided to try continuing to live mostly lean, but I've recently realized that my 2 years savings will only get me a low-middle quality ring.

Midbass ring?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I'm gonna be in poverty for the foreseeable future. But I'm tired of constant changes. Just bite the bullet and get what I want... no more beating around the bush. the TH600 would've been what i wanted, but yeah, having been accustomed to warmer headphones for so long, I realize I just don't want bright headphones anymore. At least, not as bright. Now, there is literally nothing else to upgrade to, as far as my preference in sound. So yes, this is endgame. From here on out, there is only 'downgrading' possible.

As far as the open headphones go... the X2 has made me so happy. I just can't see myself parting with it.

I'm actually quite happy with the eggshell membrane pads though. They do keep cooler than pleather and even leather, IMHO.

Speaking of pleather, I brought the COP with me to work. Listened for about 10 minutes before I started feeling uncomfortably hot.

I need A/C for headphones like this.


----------



## Change is Good

Why won't Philips just exchange the X2 for you?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't want to exchange the X2. The issue is very, very minor. I'm not sure another X2 will be better. In any case, Philips has a shortage of X2s last time I spoke to them, so they offered me a refund. I called them a few times, but they were always updating their system and couldn't do anything until afterwards. I haven't contacted them since, because I'm happy with my x2. If I return it now, it's for financial reasons.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> No, I'm gonna be in poverty for the foreseeable future. But I'm tired of constant changes. Just bite the bullet and get what I want... no more beating around the bush. the TH600 would've been what i wanted, but yeah, having been accustomed to warmer headphones for so long, I realize I just don't want bright headphones anymore. At least, not as bright. Now, there is literally nothing else to upgrade to, as far as my preference in sound. So yes, this is endgame. From here on out, there is only 'downgrading' possible.
> 
> As far as the open headphones go... the X2 has made me so happy. I just can't see myself parting with it.




So spill the beans, and stop abusing that bush, what headphone is "endgame" for you that's avail on Razerdog? Certainly not a D7000... TH900? Bass too strong, you said yourself that reviewed descriptions of the tonal character won't be to your liking. T500RP? Kinda doubt it. LCD? No not really, heavy closed hot pads. Your post send to indicate your endgame is closed, but I know you won't stick to a closed headphone, especially once summer actually hits.

You like _most_ parts of most headphones, BUT I really can't think of any headphone you'd accept as endgame, razerdog or otherwise.

Time for a new soundbar?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, the TH900's impressions are ALL over the place. Just today, someone stated the sub bass is lacking compared to something like the AKg K812. Then I've heard that the TH900 has MORE bass than the TH600, as the TH600 is more neutral. I mean, these are quite contradictory statements.

So, having personally tested the TH600, where there were more than a few people stating the bass wasn't all that potent... I couldn't disagree more with such weird statements. The TH600 is an absolute sub bass monster in a good way. Not D7000 level, but not far off, and considerably more controlled. So, considering the TH900 has been known to have MORE, and is even CLEANER sounding... well, you can see where my impulses have led to.

Before I heard the TH600, I was REALLY skeptical on the TH900. Now having spent some quality time with it, I'm convinced this is where I need to go. If the TH900 fails me, then I'm gonna end up just scrounging up a D7000 and calling it quits. The one thing I will look for the D7000 in that case is some TH600/900 pads, because they're still angled, and not as warmth inducing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why not try dampening the TH-600


----------



## Change is Good

I reached my endgame far long ago when I with the 1540 and K712, just never realized it until I recently ended up with the K7XX. My, how much I missed the AKG house sound. 

Now, after adding the 400i to the regime, I'm left with a complete feeling. Is that end game?

Also recently picked up the C5 in black with the US warranty. Damn that little thing can pack some juice. Everything I read about it is on point. Powerful like the E12 without coloring the sound and with better soundstage depth. Now my full size cans can reach their full potential again off my DAPs and mixamp 5.8.

Edit: It may not be high end, but I'm damn happy in mid-fi? land...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Why not try dampening the TH-600




I don't like modding. And I'm of the kind that believes when you correct one flaw in a mod, you cause another. Let's say I blunted the 5khz spike of doom with a mod... who's to say something else wasn't blunted or enhanced? I don't trust mods that aren't measureable. Usually, when mods are done to headphones, I tend to see a trend where bass is reduced. This always irritates me.

Honestly, the TH600 with 1540 pads actually has tighter bass, while still being potent. yet, I don't like the fact that it's slightly reduced the output. I like the TH600 bass in all it's glory, same reason I like the D7000 in all it's glory, reverb/resonance be damned.

Really don't like mod impressions on stuff like the Lawton D7000. There are no published graphs comparing the two directly. All I've heard are biased impressions from people who paid a crapton of money on the mod. Of course they'll say it's better. They don't wanna feel that all that money sucked out what made the D7000 unique.

Sound characteristics in a headphone are tied to all their other aspects. If you mess around with something, chances are, other things will change.

Funny how things like Lawton mods for the TH900 states cleaner bass, when the TH900's bass is already considered to be exceptionally clean. That basically just means to me, that they probably reduced it to make it seem even cleaner and more cohesive next to the mids. Why bother getting a Fostex, if you wanna suck out it's bass? It makes no sense to me. Or recabling the TH-900 when the stock cable is considered highly premium?

It's questionable things like this that keeps me from mods. The farthest I'll go is comfort mods, like a pad swap, and ONLY if they don't negatively affect the sound.


----------



## Change is Good

I've learned during my short audiphile-ish life that finding a closed headphone whcih hit all the right notes, for me, was extremely difficult for a long time.

Mad, thought about the Z7? Potent bass, but completely opposite up top. I've read it's even more laid back than the 1540.

Did I mention the K7XX is outstanding? We all already know that, though. Currently watching the latest Captain America. Yeah, completely off topic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. I'm done with searching for closed headphones. All these years, I've been trying to re-live the special traits of the Denon/Fostex bass with everything else, and failed. No headphones, even ones with massive sub bass have encapsulated what made the Fostex bass special. So it just makes sense for me to search for that in house. Which is why I went straight to the top. I believe chicolom was able to hear BOTH on the same day and said the bass was definitely unlike anything else, leading me to think the TH900 will satisfy my need. Believe me bro, once you go Denon bass, nothing else bassy or not can compare.

If it weren't for that, believe me, I would've lived happily with the 1540, just as you have. My only problem with it was the headband, and after a few days, that was no longer an issue. The 1540 is something I could live with as a closed headphone, had I not been so set against re-living that Denon D7000 experience.

As far as open headphones go, I think if for some reason I don't stay with the X2, I'll be on the hunt to relive the HE-400/LCD2 planar type bass presentation, but with fluid mids as well. I was looking at the EL-8, but looks like it's just another neutral Audeze which I have zero desire for. I was hoping for an old LCD2 type sound in a new form factor.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Forget about the Z7 or buy at 300 and below.

And Lol@K812 sub bass vs TH-900. I owned one and any simple hearing can confirm the measurements easily. Not only is it far more distorted it also rolls off earlier while the TH-900 gets even louder. Still a good headphone the AKG but not TOTL.

However MLE, not sure if you like the clean and clearer aspects of the TH-900 as a D7K replacement. I really hope so. I personally won't be going back to less control while having such a Donnergott bass.


----------



## Change is Good

If I sold all my cans and was to look for just one full size headphone, th900 would probably be it.

Don't tempt me...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, considering the TH-600 bass is cleaner than the D7000, while still remaining very, very similar, I think I can live with 'similar but cleaner'. It will also make it more versatile. I mean, I admit, the D7000 could be a bit too bassy for normal use. It really was pretty massive. A more controlled D7000-esque bass sounds fine.

I'm actually not worried about the bass, so much as I'm worried about the upper mid to treble spikes. The TH600 5khz spike is quite scary, and I'm hoping the TH900 doesn't share that. I've seen graphs indicating that the peaks have shifted towards 7k, and not as large, which will be fine, as that is instrument range, and not harmonic range. 5khz is a REALLY bad spot to have a jarring spike (female harmonics LIVE at 5khz). 7khz is a bit better.

Change, at least wait until I can verify that it would suit you. I think we have a similar taste, and I think Fostex bass will blow you the eff away. Just wondering on the other aspects. Not sure I wanna ship them out (I'm sure you understand, considering the cost, not that I don't trust you, but don't want a damn thing to happen to them), but I'd totally be willing to meet you halfway for a mini-meet.


----------



## Change is Good

It would be hard for me to part ways with my headphones. I think I'd rather have three distinct mid-fi's than just one hi-fi. Evs is right, I can't see only one headphone being end game for any of us.

Just wait for when we get some solid ground on a summer meet. I'm pushing for Orlando area.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I could keep just one headphone, even if it was the TH-900. I need at least one open headphone that does other things better like midrange, which is where I'm covered with the X2. Just happy the X2 does a lot more than just midrange. 




That was my face when I heard the Fostex/Denon bass for the first time.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> If I sold all my cans and was to look for just one full size headphone, th900 would probably be it.
> 
> Don't tempt me...




If I had to part with one it would be the HD-800, the technical masterpiece. 

Fostex Magic trumps everything in the end and it's technically outstanding (very clean, huge clarity, separation, Imaging) well with every good trait for gaming, movies. Hearing menacing war thunder from the distance in battlefield when you enter the game or the deep wub wob of far away explosions like no other phone is special. The lightning on the bridge in Killzone 2, the feels of Terminator when you detach a mounted gun in Crysis 2 and the deep machine gun sound blasts enemies away that tower you, the repulsion of bullets on your armor, the rumble in Gears etc etc Don't make me start on movies. 

Important though to have a clean chain as well though it doesn't really mind the Mixamp. It's that versatile if you're not too extremely obsessed with high end chains.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I mean, I don't think I could keep just one headphone, even if it was the TH-900. I need at least one open headphone that does other things better like midrange, which is where I'm covered with the X2. Just happy the X2 does a lot more than just midrange.




Just a couple of things...

Told you you'd like the egg membrane pads. Kinda helps that there is almost no clamping.

And hey, considering how the th-series is made (there's an open ring all the way around the headphones cup,) the th900 is technically a semi-open headphone. I've seen many comments that the Alpha Primes have the largest soundstage of any closed headphone, but I distinctly remember the th600 having a larger one. Not even by a little bit either. And the th900 has an even larger one than the th600 from what I've been told. It also leaks sound like a mofo and doesn't isolat as well as even the t1, so you might not even need an open headphone.


----------



## glow9

I'm not sure how comfortable those TH-600s are the band doesn't look comfortable let me know how they are. For the money are they really worth it over the Philips X2? I have open phones now but not sure if I should go back to closed or if I should look for something else entirely. Sooo many options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I need a closed headphone to mitigate leakage overnight. The TH600 definitely leaks, but it's a far cry compared to the X2's leakage. I can safely wear the TH600 at night without disturbing people in their bedrooms. Can't do that with the X2. As long as the TH900 is in the realm of TH600 leakage, I'll be fine. 

Like, I can play with the X2 overnight at medium levels, but I can't listen to music at the same level, due to the constant barrage of high notes.

edit: The TH600 is stupid comfy. More comfortable than the D7000, somehow. I honestly didn't like the headband on the D7000. The TH600 looks the same but feels different.


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> If I had to part with one it would be the HD-800, the technical masterpiece.
> 
> Fostex Magic trumps everything in the end and it's technically outstanding (very clean, huge clarity, separation, Imaging) well with every good trait for gaming, movies. Hearing menacing war thunder from the distance in battlefield when you enter the game or the deep wub wob of far away explosions like no other phone is special. The lightning on the bridge in Killzone 2, the feels of Terminator when you detach a mounted gun in Crysis 2 and the deep machine gun sound blasts enemies away that tower you, the repulsion of bullets on your armor, the rumble in Gears etc etc Don't make me start on movies.
> 
> Important though to have a clean chain as well though it doesn't really mind the Mixamp. It's that versatile if you're not too extremely obsessed with high end chains.




Will the NFB-15 for desktop and Cayin C5 to amp my portables (mixamp 5.8 and sony a17 via line out) pair nicely with the TH900?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having not heard the TH900, I'm still positive the NFB15 will be great for it. Just judging off my experiences with similar things.

My setup will be less ideal than that, but should still be good enough. I'm gonna have to buy some warm op-amps...apparently.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just start with what you have, Change. You will enjoy it. You can upgrade whenever you want and reap the benefits but do not worry now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Good thing the X7 arrives tomorrow. I wanna see how the TH600 handles a clean source and power. I'm of the sort who doesn't believe in huge changes, especially for headphones as sensitive as these, but I know it will be a beneficial change.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Good thing the X7 arrives tomorrow. I wanna see how the TH600 handles a clean source and power. I'm of the sort who doesn't believe in huge changes, especially for headphones as sensitive as these, but I know it will be a beneficial change.


 
 Will we see some impressions of the X7 here? Aside from the excellent Evshrug's review of course.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It won't be a full review. I'll keep it as a bullet point type review like the others I have on the first page, but Evs's full review will remain linked. I don't need to add more than all he has already added. I'll also add Earfonia's review as a second link, since his goes a bit deeper in terms of the sheer technical info.

Guys, to restate what I've said of the TH600. It's ****ing amazing. It's ONE sonic flaw to my ears is that glaring 5khz peak, that is it. It may not be a big issue to other people, if at all. I'm just very sensitive to that range. I can easily say the TH600 is a 9/10 in my book.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I reached my endgame far long ago when I with the 1540 and K712, just never realized it until I recently ended up with the K7XX. My, how much I missed the AKG house sound.
> 
> Now, after adding the 400i to the regime, I'm left with a complete feeling. Is that end game?
> 
> ...




Hey Change, could you give me a brief description of how the C5 sounds with the K7XX?

I've been reading reviews on it and I'm tempted to buy one lol. Reviews seems pretty good.


----------



## 8bitg33k

Thanks again everyone for your input a few pages back. The Fidelio X1 arrived in the mail yesterday, and I was absolutely blown away. I listened to some Norah Jones flac straight through the Xonar DG at first and the sound was simply amazing. The clarity is phenomenal. They sounded a bit too harsh at first (like Monitors) but it didn't take me long to get used that. Then I ran the sound through the E17 (still from the Xonar DG though) and the already great sound increased dramatically to extraordinary!
 Not everything worked right off the bat and I needed to do some fiddling and tweaking, but suffice to say that now that everything is up and running I am astounded at the fantastic audio I am getting!
  
 I then proceeded to insert the E17 between my TV (using optical out) and my Audioengine A2 speakers. The A2's already sound pretty good, but after putting the E17 in the loop the soundstage was opened up wide with incredible detail!
  
 I had no idea audio could sound this good for just a few hundred bucks.
  
 I am really, really glad I got the E17 even though at the time of purchase I didn't have high expectations - I had tried out Audioengine's D1 DAC a while back and there absolutely no difference in sound leading me to believe DACs in general are more or less snake oil. But the E17 sure turned me into a believer.
  
 I will be doing some more test driving over the next few days, I mainly used music and TV last night, so over the weekend I'll be trying some games with Surround Sound - since my main goal was to play Star Citizen.
  
 Again - thanks everyone for your input and help!


----------



## Evshrug

8bitgeek,
Let me know if you twitch-stream your Star Citizen gameplay!


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Any thoughts about the sale price and headphone itself? STREET by 50 Cent Wired Over-Ear Headphones - Black by SMS Audio https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006BUN6ZE/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_84fbvb0AF8JRX
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006BUN6ZE/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_84fbvb0AF8JRX


----------



## 8bitg33k

evshrug said:


> 8bitgeek,
> Let me know if you twitch-stream your Star Citizen gameplay!


 
  
 I do... http://www.twitch.tv/8bitg33k You can also check out some of my youtube videos here and here.
  
 VoiceAttack is an important feature to me as it allows you to bind complex keyboard macros into a single Voice activated command (which is why I really needed a micro to go with my new audio assembly). Very helpful when addressing the ship's various subsystems such as Shields and Targeting systems.
  
 Don't get your expectations too high when getting on my Twitch  though as I'm rarely on there and am still test driving things in Single Player more than being competitive in Multiplayer Dogfights. I'll be on this weekend for sure though! If you really want to see some awesome Dogfighting with lots of entertainment and fun thrown in the mix you should check out BadNewsBaron (sometimes he plays as Darth Vader) and WTFosaurus.


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> Well, I need a closed headphone to mitigate leakage overnight. The TH600 definitely leaks, but it's a far cry compared to the X2's leakage. I can safely wear the TH600 at night without disturbing people in their bedrooms. Can't do that with the X2. As long as the TH900 is in the realm of TH600 leakage, I'll be fine.
> 
> Like, I can play with the X2 overnight at medium levels, but I can't listen to music at the same level, due to the constant barrage of high notes.
> 
> edit: The TH600 is stupid comfy. More comfortable than the D7000, somehow. I honestly didn't like the headband on the D7000. The TH600 looks the same but feels different.


 
 How is the leakage with the X2's over say DT 990 pros? I find the 990's aren't too bad. Also do you have a top 5 list of open and closed headphones? Really curious headphones under $600-1000 make it on the lists.


----------



## Evshrug

Star citizen looks awesome!!!
Funny seeing that "wing stuck in my cockpit" video. I distinctly heard you say "radar" in that vid too, I assume that was the voice command macros at work.

Looks like it'll be just such an awesome game... Waaaant!


----------



## 8bitg33k

evshrug said:


> Star citizen looks awesome!!!
> Funny seeing that "wing stuck in my cockpit" video. I distinctly heard you say "radar" in that vid too, I assume that was the voice command macros at work.
> 
> Looks like it'll be just such an awesome game... Waaaant!


 
  
 Yeah, the wing getting stuck was more of a bug (I think). Everything is still in Alpha but still pretty fun to play. And yes, the 'Radar' command was to adjust the radar range (the big blue bubble in the front middle of the cockpit).
  
 If you do want to buy into Star Citizen you need to be aware that no ships are "for sale" per se, they are more meant as a thank you for pledging and supporting the game development. There have been quite a few butthurts from people who didn't fully understand what a pledge means. If you want to avoid disappointment and potential drama, wait until the game is fully released. Or, like most other mature people just have fun with what is currently possible and be aware that there will be many changes before the game is released and if you buy a ship today the specs are highly likely to change down the road. EDIT: Later when people buy the full retail release everyone will have the option of choosing one of several different "starter" ships to take into the Multiplayer Universe at the end of the Single Player Campaign.
  
 I will say that I am having lots of fun though in the current Alpha release - the flight dynamics are based on Space physics, you know like in Battlestar Galactica where they do like a 180 flip and fly back in the same direction they just came from? And the fact that there is the added dimension of 'z' can be confusing for some and it may take a moment or two grasp the various flight concepts (like coupled and decoupled mode).
  
 What I like most is that there will be no leveling and no click-to-kill elements, everything will be entirely skill based, and no pay-to-win.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

glow9 said:


> How is the leakage with the X2's over say DT 990 pros? I find the 990's aren't too bad. Also do you have a top 5 list of open and closed headphones? Really curious headphones under $600-1000 make it on the lists.




Its been way too long to remember the amount of leakage on the 990 Pros. What I do remember is that it doesn't look too badly. The X2 is basically planar like, in that it sounds like its sending audio both ways. It is absolutelybthe leakiest dynamic headphone I've heard in recent memory, so use them in a room, with the door closed, because everyone will hear your stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, I am a ****ing idiot. Since I've soldn the E17, I've been dacless. I couldn't find my D03K anywhere. So I got my X7 today, and I'm just setting it up. Looking for a lengthy micro usb cable, I notice the D03K sitting right in front of me, like 'HEY HERE I AM'.

I HATE MYSELF.


----------



## Change is Good

I've read the the D03K has the unique ability to grow legs and walk when not used.


----------



## Sam21

Just got my MA900's , next stop Lake people G109-S!!!!!!


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> Just got my MA900's , next stop Lake people G109-S!!!!!!




I have their V181, hope you love yours!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X7 is a right pain in the arse to setup. I can't get the headphones to read the 5.1 surround tests...


----------



## Evshrug

All:
So Tyll from Inner Fidelity asked people to send in their headphones so he can measure some of the rarer or harder to find headphones, and I sent in my AKG K612. Results are in, some very sexy graphs... For example, take a look at this frequency response graph:




8bit,
Ooh! I used to play a (classic) game called Escape Velocity, 2-D but the flight mechanic was you can apply thrust and you can turn, so you can burn off into one direction and continue your momentum while turning to fire back at pursuers. Awesome game, cool (and scientific) flight mechanic. I guess that's decoupled mode?


Mad,
I don't know if you got my PM's before (only the computers know how many PMs you get in a day), but feel free to pm me if you have a setup question.


----------



## BigBadWulf

sam21 said:


> Just got my MA900's , next stop Lake people G109-S!!!!!!


 

 Have fun with them and try to mod them with Beyerdynamic Pads. I modded them with T-90 Pads. Best comfort!
  
 The Sony has only 12 Ohms. So take care, that your amp is made for low Ohms.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There's a few things that irritate me. First is all the confusing options for direct mode, spdif direct, etc. I have spdif direct, and my headphones go silent. Am I supposed to lower the PS4 to stereo so that spdif direct works? It's not an option I'm going to use, but I do want to understand it.

Also, I assume direct mode cuts out all processing, yet, when I do that, my PS4 feed goes silent. Again, I assume that it only works for USB, or that it also needs spdif to be in plain stereo, no Dolby.

I honestly don't think I'm getting proper surround for my PC through the USB, making the X7 an overpriced, non-functioning soundcard for my prupose. I'm gonna re-download Red Faction Armageddon, as it has very distinct audio cues and easy to manipulate. If it fails... I'm gonna consider this a massive failure on Creative, for being less usefull the the built in Recon on my laptop.

On the good side of things, optical in works perfectly fine, and I'm getting good positional cues for my PS4.

I was able to test the surround of the SBX directly with the Mixamp (I have my PS4 optical fed to the Mixamp, and the optical passthrough to the X7). Since the X7 basically feeds ALL audio at once (meaning if something is playing on USB, optical, and RCA in, they will ALL play at the same time).

So: 

1. PS4 optical to Mixamp, then Mixamp's analog out to the X7's analog in = Mixamp audio to the X7 (must turn off the SBX function to test properly)

Optical in to the X7 = SBX

The phone app has a Mixer option so you can mute the spdif in or the analog in for easy A/B testing. I press the SBX button on the X7 for fast switching of surround.

With this, testing out SBX and Dolby Headphone on the same game, same time is easy.

I noticed SBX at 100% being ideal to me, and less processed than Dolby Headphone. Clearer too. Audiophiles will definitely prefer SBX to Dolby Headphone. Positional cues were very, VERY similar, though Dolby Headphone is better at spacing out rear audio cues. They sound like they're actually at a distance behind you, while the X7 has them sounding a bit closer to you and not as easy to differentiate.

All in all, I still love Dolby Headphone, but it's clear that SBX sounds better overall, despite rear cues not being AS good.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Hey Change, could you give me a brief description of how the C5 sounds with the K7XX?
> 
> I've been reading reviews on it and I'm tempted to buy one lol. Reviews seems pretty good.




Haven't spent much time with the K7XX on the C5, just mostly the 400i. I can say, however, from a short session that the C5 definitely makes the K7XX more dynamic out of my F887 line out compared to just its HP out (which is surprisingly damn good by itself with the K7XX).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bigbadwulf said:


> Have fun with them and try to mod them with Beyerdynamic Pads. I modded them with T-90 Pads. Best comfort!
> 
> The Sony has only 12 Ohms. So take care, that your amp is made for low Ohms.




Actually, that doesn't matter. The MA900 has a resistance limiter that is special to the MA900 (and I belioeve the F1), where output impedance doesn't make a difference. You lose the benefits of low resistance outputs with the MA900.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, whenever I send you the 400i I'm going to include the C5 if you are down. Always good to have another affordable option to read about when looking for a beefy portable amp.


----------



## glow9

Well this just got harder, just realized Philips Fidelio X2 ​and Sennheiser HD598 are rated in the same class here "B". Considering I could have bought HD598's for under tad under $150, I'm assuming I shouldn't go for the X2 at twice the price, kinda regret not getting the 598's now. (Keep in mind I don't live in the US not using US prices with that). Arrg...  ​


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

B? If you're referring to the list, I'm classifying them under price, not performance level. The X2 is a considerably better headphone, IMHO.

Ok, so testing out SPDIF direct, you definitely need to set the optical audio to stereo for it to work. I feel that's a no brainer, but I did wonder why it went silent. It will not decode Dolby this way. SDIF direct must be off.


The X7 is not exactly user friendly. You gotta know your stuff.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Haven't spent much time with the K7XX on the C5, just mostly the 400i. I can say, however, from a short session that the C5 definitely makes the K7XX more dynamic out of my F887 line out compared to just its HP out (which is surprisingly damn good by itself with the K7XX).




Huh...this is making me want to get a C5 now. Do you think a schiit modi and a C5 would pair up well with the K7XX? I do tend to like More a warm signature. I want to go with a tube amp but I'm not sure I'm ready just yet for that kind of stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So SBX does work through USB. You have to enable 5.1, and while it will NOT actually work through the surround tests in the sound devices or X7 control panel, it will work.

These are things that need to be correctly shown to the users, instead of us having to test it and verify it ourselves.

In short, for the X7 to output SBX surround:

1. Make sure the X7 is not in Direct mode.
2. Change output to 5.1 (again, you will NOT be able to hear any audio through your headphones, until you actually start the game. The Recon 3Di and Xonar U3 DO let you hear audio outside of the games)
3. Enable SBX Surround on the X7 control panel.


----------



## rudyae86

All that for SBX to work? This is something Creative should have worked on very well before releasing the X7 or even previous sound cards. I mean everybody knows by now that Creative has trouble with drivers and all but at this point, creative messed up a little more than usual. I love their Recon3D and SB Z but the drivers and software is sometimes a PITA...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here is essentially the steps to make it work.

Go to sound devices (the speaker icon on the taskbar).
Right click.
Playback Devices
Right click on the Soundblaster X7
Click on Configure Speakers (you can also go to properties, and advanced, and make sure your bit rate is at 24bit/96khz)
Set to 5.1 Surround, Next until Finish (do NOT do the surround test option here, it will not work).

Next, go to the X7's software settings

Make sure to uncheck Direct Mode, and turn on SBX Surround. I like mine at 100% for maximum potential of surround.

You may have to plug in your headphones BEFORE starting a game, just to make sure settings weren't all screwed up.



Start a game. Not all games do surround well. Make sure to test a game with good surround. My game of choice is Red Faction Armageddon. Once you're far enough in the game you get a thing that allows you to rebuild whatever you destroy (buildings, etc). Whatever you destroy has really good audio cues, so you can blow stuff up, turn around to hear how it sounds behind you, and rebuild it again, rinse, and repeat. Easiest way to test for cues. The beginning of the game also has some fires near you that have a constant audio cue. Get close enough, and you can rotate your character enough to test for surround cues.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sweet Jesus, I forgot to mention, I think I jumped the gun with the TH900.

Having a PROPER dac/amp... the TH600 is... near perfection. I mean, holy smokes. This is REALLY reminding me of the D7000 now, but....better? :eek:


Change, sell your 1540 and get the TH600. JUST DO IT.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Sweet Jesus, I forgot to mention, I think I jumped the gun with the TH900.
> 
> Having a PROPER dac/amp... the TH600 is... near perfection. I mean, holy smokes. This is REALLY reminding me of the D7000 now, but....better? :eek:




Ok now I want the th600 before they go discontinued and I don't get them like the d7000.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean... the X7 just brought out the TH600 like a CHAMP. Holy mother of bass and clarity.

I suggest Razordog. Tell him to get more TH600s. 

I'm comparing here. The TH600 is the clear winner here. But I still think the 1540 is a fantastic headphone. The mids aren't as recessed as the TH600, so there's one win on the 1540. But everything else? Hmm... TH600 all the way.

Also, I guess the introduction to a clean source, has made the 5khz spike a LOT more bearable. I dunno What was wrong before, but it's a lot more stable now. I mean, it was horribly fatiguing and disastrous before.

Kinda regretting the TH900 purchase. Not because I think it will be bad, but because I can HAPPILY live with the TH600 now. Ah well. I'm still excited about the TH900. If it's better, it's better and no harm no foul. But for $500, the TH600 is the IT headphone for me. I'm gonna be very sad when it's gone.

Guys, source is important. Can't stress this enough.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Sweet Jesus, I forgot to mention, I think I jumped the gun with the TH900.
> 
> Having a PROPER dac/amp... the TH600 is... near perfection. I mean, holy smokes. This is REALLY reminding me of the D7000 now, but....better? :eek:
> 
> ...




Damn Mad, seems like you made things way more complicated than necessary, then in your "final" steps you seem to have learned a few things that you don't mention why you used different settings.

The DSP only accepts 96kHz bit rate or lower, so you need windows set that way to have surround work... Most people don't change the default 16-bit/44.1kHz windows setting, so your problem came from knowing a bit of advanced stuff but not all. Most games have filed under 196kHz (probably just CD quality), so that's why the games are working.

SPDIF-Direct bypasses the DSP, and the DSP is the Dolby decoder, so again that's an advanced setting and you only knew half the info (at the time, I think you know now).

I personally feel like your windows settings struggles match my frustrations with windows. I feel like I have to work on Windows as much as spend time doing anything with it. However, I think you ought to shrug a bit and cut Creative some slack... The X7 has Room to grow, sure, but nothing else performs as well and it gets 90% of it right, and your experience with the X7 + TH600 is giving credit where credit is due. Windows settings and PS4/Xbox One wiring/peripheral support is a confine that Creative has to work within, but some stuff is beyond their scope and we blame the wrong party.

Speaking of, super glad you discovered extra value in your TH600. Maybe you'll like the TH900 more, but nice to know you could also just save a few bucks and stick with the TH600. Razerdog had at least one B-Stock TH600 last time I checked... Pretty awesome. Did you try using the smart EQ on the X7 to tone down a band near 5 kHz?

Could the TH600 actually be an improvement on the D7000, for you?!?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't actually feel the need to EQ down the 5khz spike. It's no longer an issue. My questionable sources at the time where what made the spike unbearable.

And yes, I did make a few errors initially, though I believe Creative missed a few marks with the X7 in regards of functionality and things that make common sense.

Stuff like zero volume reduction when you turn the X7 off/on. The knob is digitally bound, so it's inexcusable that every time you turn on/off the X7, you have to remind youirself to lower the volume so as not to go through a jarring shock when you play audio. At least with analog volume knobs, you can lower the volume even with the amp off. You can't here.

Also, no display letting us the volume the X7 is on, along with other info. Just things that it needs.

The whole virtual surround trickery to get it to work is STILL quite unnacceptable to me. Yes it works, but there are a billion steps first.

The android app works, but it also causes things like direct mode toggling on and off to me for some odd reason.


The X7 isn't perfect, especially on the software side. On the hardware side... damn the optical input SUCKS and constantly spits out the cable when I'm moving the X7 around. It may be the cable, but I'm doubtful. It's using that old school optical bay with door. You know, the ones that are small and prone to breaking.... the one on the Mixamp 5.8 is much better and grippy.

Also, why, oh did they decide on Micro usb input for such a large device? Christ. Once that input goes bad, you're screwed. Should've went with a USB-B input (Printer style). I have a real bad habit of damaging either the micro usb cables, or the inputs. I'm not an animal, yet they mess up on me all the damn time. USB B, or Mini USB would've made much more sense.
As for the TH600.. it is now even closer to what I loved about the D7000. I think if I had the D7000 I may be surprised in leaning towards the TH600.


----------



## Evshrug

*Willy Wonka face time*
So, tell me about the time you heard the TH600 through the X7 and heard everything come together?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## glow9

Gaming questions on the TH600's, how do they feel wearing them for a few hour gaming session the strap doesn't look very padded? Also which games have you tested them with so far?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've worn it practically all day, without an issue. The top pad doesn't need to be super padded, if all it's down is merely resting on the head. Denons/Fostex of this design dow have much downwards pressure to begin with. Most of the weight will fall around the cups, which is best case scenario.

I've tested Destiny, Call of Duty Ghosts, Red Faction Armageddon, Saints Row IV, Need For Speed: The Run, TV shows, anime, odds and ends here or there. 

I don't test a billion games. I test a few games with good audio cues and dynamic sounds with random explosions, etc. You can pick up if a headphone is good or not for gaming with a few games. Once tonal balance, soundstage, positional cues are dialed in, you can extrapolate if a headphone will be worth using.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, that's some high praise if it has you telling me I need to sell the 1540, now. I will probably hold back, though, because I see that as a 'sidegrade' with trade offs rather than an actual upgrade. If the 1540 were to leave my possession, it would only be to get the TH900. And that will require me selling all my headphones, which probably won't happen anytime soon. I need my diversity, for now. Maybe after graduation and I actually start broadcasting some games that pay real money, then I'll think about it. I'll need the HD800 or HE-560 to compliment it, hence the need of a higher paying job.


----------



## Fegefeuer

In aaaaaaall these years I told you guys how good the comfort is and how eggshell is very bearable.

And about the source: it keeps getting better but start slow and with what you guys have. Upgrade wisely.
A X7 is great, no need to go further. Really. Though I haven't purchased mine yet. Kinda worrying about the headphone out as my ZxR is behaving differently as my DAC and very noticably so.

Yesterday I finished Crysis 2+Maldo HD+SBX throughout my DAC on the TH-909 (remember to set the sound spec to 4 in the autoexec.cfg) and in several occasions I thought about Mad Love Entity. Everyone should play the game this way. Recordings are on the good side of the wall, very immersive and cinematic in the sense that they've taken good care of the ambience. Growls, earth shattering, deep thunderous explosions in the distance, buildings crashing. . Very powerful.


----------



## Faceman

HD650s on sale for only $290 via Amazon.
 Phillips Fidelio X1 dropped to $230 via Amazon.
  
 Aaand.... I'm still thinking I should buy the X2 for $299.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stop it! I'm already salivating. 

The X7 is as far as I go in terms of amp/dac for now. I think the only things I may in the far future look into is a planar, and I'll probably be looking into using the speaker taps at that point, and upgrade to the high power adapter for the X7 for this purpose. As far as solid state and dac goes, I'm 100% happy with this. I would still want more rated power for 600ohm headphones, but I'm not hurting for a high impedance headphone in the foreseeable future. 

I'm currently writing my review of the Custom One Pro. I enjoy it quite a bit, but damn if it isn't a considerable downgrade from the TH600. Lol, it's to be expected. Still for the $200 range, I REALLY like it. There is definitely better for cheaper, but I like it's tonal adjustability.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I want a small SBX device from creative that allows passthrough and has at least ac3 Input


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously, would it kill one of these manufacturers to have just a simple virtual surround device that picks up at LEAST Dolby Digital through an SPDIF in, decodes it into Dolby headphone or SBX, and then sends the signal through it's digital and analog line out?

That's ALL I ask. I'd buy one for $100. Not that I need one NOW, but still... a simple small device that takes in an OPTICAL signal feeds into an external DAC and/or AMP without double amping would just be... the product of the century for me. Creative and Asus both have stuff like this already, but only PC! We need that all important spdif input capability!

I think they would have a sudden surge of sales just off this thread alone.


----------



## pack21

I love this feature of X7:

I'm in chat playing BF4, someone calls me on my phone and hear ring in headphones, i i accept the call and the sound of the game and chat turns off automatically. When the call ends, the X7 again put me the sound of game and chat. 


Also like being able to mix some background music when I'm playing alone.


Great stuff.


----------



## BigBadWulf

@MLE, Thx for your info.
  
  
 @Fegefeuer, I cross fingers, that Valhalla will be shipped to you soon.
 First I was not very happy with that IFI IDSD, but as always you have to learn how to handle new toys.
 Yesterday I played Warlock Master of the Arcane, a simple round based strategy game. After a while I really discovered sounds, that I could not hear with the ZXR. First I thought, "What is that", because I have played it for many hours.
 Next step will be the test to connect it with the optical out of the ZXR. Will I still be able to use SBX with optical Output?
  
 Another Point are our volume limited european mobiles. With them 3,5mm Connection I was not satisfied, but with the USB cable all the gizmos went on and the IFI showed real power and Quality.
  
 The Bass Boost is very decent, it could be more. Same to the 3D Setting, but everyone hears it in a different way. I am not that guy who gets a huge soundstage with Music, but games work better for me.
  
 Yesterday I showed my Cousin that combination. Before "You are nuts"... After "Wow, amazing, headphones can do that!?! Fantastic"


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, ZxR is able to send SBX to optical. Just go to "erweiterte Funktionen". Of course you need to be in headphone mode and the usual stuff.

MLE, you and earfonia could ask creative to pass the idea of such a device? They've staff participating in the X7 threads


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Guys, source is important. Can't stress this enough.


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> I don't actually feel the need to EQ down the 5khz spike. It's no longer an issue. My questionable sources at the time where what made the spike unbearable.


 
  
 I thought you were aware of that. :/ Things you lose at the source can't be replaced down the chain. That's why both my DAC and amp cost more on their own than any single headphone I own. A good source can always help with spikes, but it can't smooth them altogether *cough* HD700 *cough.*
  
 Glad the TH600 are working well for you. Brian has them for $480 B-stock. If I love a pair at CanJam I may consider picking them up from him.


----------



## BigBadWulf

fegefeuer said:


> Yes, ZxR is able to send SBX to optical. Just go to "erweiterte Funktionen". Of course you need to be in headphone mode and the usual stuff.


 
 That`s great. I`ll test it later. Thank you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just remember what V-shaped implies. 

I assume the pair I'm using now will be put up on B-stock, thank me for the initial 'burn in' whomever picks one up. 

The TH600 has a sound that I can only consider as something I've only dreamed about. The wonderful sub bass, the sense of space and clarity in the notes. I seriously mean that. When I dream of an ideal headphone, it does sound something like the TH600. And I mean dreamed, not thought of as perfect.


Perhaps open, and planarmagnetic are the key differences, but similar. Of course, the tradeoff is the lack of forwardness in the midrange, but that's expected for a v-shaped...


----------



## 8bitg33k

evshrug said:


> 8bit,
> Ooh! I used to play a (classic) game called Escape Velocity, 2-D but the flight mechanic was you can apply thrust and you can turn, so you can burn off into one direction and continue your momentum while turning to fire back at pursuers. Awesome game, cool (and scientific) flight mechanic. I guess that's decoupled mode?


 
  
 Yes, that is precisely what decoupled mode is! You uncouple your ships vector from it's trajectory by turning off the main (directional) engine, using the thrusters to spin around while maintaining your original trajectory. Reignite the main engine and you're back in coupled mode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't been this furstrated at an electronic device since m earlier Audio-GD experiences where just getting the damn NFB5's usb to be recognized took a million confusing steps.

The X7 is a hotdamn nightmare in terms of functionality and practicality. First is the massive amount of confusing options that are left enabled even when you're using stuff that isn't using them. Then there's the fact that no matter what I do, the damn thing won't do SBX through it's line out OR optical out, meaning that if I want to use the Vali with SBX, I have to go the old fashioned plugging into the headphone jack route.

I distinctly remember someone or other telling me that the X7 would send SBX surround to external devices. If so, it is clearly not happening, regardless of settings, lowering bitrate, etc.

So from MY personal experiences, if you get the X7, get it if that's ALL you plan on using, because I may as well double amp the Mixamp as usual, and just get a Modi 2 for my Vali or something whenever I'm NOT gaming. So far, the auto changing between headphone and speaker mode has been nothing but problematic by causing the X7 control panel to slow down, as well as causing my games to freeze, and Winamp to stop playing music until I restart the PC.

I didn't sign up for this bull. I do NOT have infinite patience with clunky crap like this. The only thing that it works very well with is the optical input dolby decoding into SBX. At least THAT is simple.


----------



## glow9

axelcloris said:


> Glad the TH600 are working well for you. Brian has them for $480 B-stock. If I love a pair at CanJam I may consider picking them up from him.


 

 Who is Brian, online store? 

 Are the TH600's cables removable? After having the DT900's I'll never own a pair of headphones over $100 that I can't change out their cables. If so is there a good 3.5mm cable for these guys?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Fostex does not have removable cables on either the TH600 or TH900.


----------



## AxelCloris

glow9 said:


> Who is Brian, online store?
> 
> Are the TH600's cables removable? After having the DT900's I'll never own a pair of headphones over $100 that I can't change out their cables. If so is there a good 3.5mm cable for these guys?


 
  
 Brian L from RazerDog! Audio
  
 http://www.razordogaudio.com/products/fostex-th-600-premium-reference-headphone-b-stock-1


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> No. Fostex does not have removable cables on either the TH600 or TH900.


 
 Nooooooooooooo!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm glad I can get out of the way with all this for PC gaming.

Now consoles.......i'll stay with the Mixamp for a good while


----------



## glow9

I hate to keep bugging you guys but since my primary hobby is gaming and music I find this to be the best thread. I find with my 990's when I move my head in certain directions I get crackling. I found Beyerdynamics support to be a real pain to work with so I'm never going with this brand again, ever. Which is why I'm reaaally reluctant to spend a couple hundred bucks on headphones that could be ruined if there was a simple accident with the cord. How significant of a difference is there between the Fidelio X2's and the TH600's? Is there anything in between I should consider? Going to really have to think about the TH600's but it's hard considering how much people loved the Dennons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why are you limiting yourself to just those two options? Yes, they are currently what's being talked about the most, but tthat doesn't mean either will be right for you. Don't mind the new toy syndrome and all that. I still haven't fully tested the TH600 and whatnot. The X2 is also... while amazing, the customer service may be even worse than Beyerdynamics (in your case, I haven't had trouble with Beyerdynamic).

I think there are situations that demands external coverage like Squaretrade. At least once Manufacturer's warranty is over, you deal with Squaretrade which is know to be a lot more helpful, expedient, and may outright replace or refund you without hassles. Of course, you'd have to commit to a headphone for years in order for something like Squaretrade to make sense. Most of us don't keep headphones long enough to even take advantage of basic warranty, lol.

Funny, I added a 3 year warranty for my Ultrasone for $15, and I don't even use that headphone anymore.


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> Why are you limiting yourself to just those two options? Yes, they are currently what's being talked about the most, but tthat doesn't mean either will be right for you. Don't mind the new toy syndrome and all that. I still haven't fully tested the TH600 and whatnot. The X2 is also... while amazing, the customer service may be even worse than Beyerdynamics (in your case, I haven't had trouble with Beyerdynamic).


 
 Well that's why I'm here, I don't have anywhere nearby to go test any of these and with the exchange rate I have to pick wisely selling them is equals lost cash. So that's why I was commenting the other day on top 5 lists. Typically on this site I don't get very many responses where as here you certainly have a wide range of reviews for gaming. I would certainly be open to more options what would you recommend? I think $600 USD is about as high as I would go.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Where are you located. The Fidelio X2's customer service issue seems to be a problem basically in the USA. Other countries don't seem to have the same customer center/number, and are helped a bit faster. I think the X2 is worth the risk, certainly. The TH600 is special too, but it's more v-shaped, and not as well tested and experienced by many people. I may be in love with them, but I don't wanna be the only opinion that matters to you. I suggest reading up on these headphones via other reviews too.

I'm leaning on personally recommending the X2 mainly because it has a more balanced sound with less tonal shifts, plenty of praise and reviews, and cheaper price.


----------



## Rich887

mad lust envy said:


> Sweet Jesus, I forgot to mention, I think I jumped the gun with the TH900.
> 
> Having a PROPER dac/amp... the TH600 is... near perfection. I mean, holy smokes. This is REALLY reminding me of the D7000 now, but....better?
> 
> ...


 
 Hey MLE,
  
 After this statement I'm seriously looking at the TH600. I bought the X1 based on your review and love it !! . I'm mostly into gaming / movie watching with my O2 Amp/ mixamp  so listening to music is secondary.  With that said could you just do a quick scale of initial impression of Dolby Surround in gaming / movies. ?


----------



## PacoTaco

About your X7 MLE...
  
 Are you trying to use SBX with the PS4? I know it'll do the EQ options, but the surround part is dictated by Dolby processing, which you set up under the Cinematic menu.
  
 As for the line out to the amp part, it works for me so far. The only thing I can suggest is to make sure it didn't auto-switch it to optical or normal direct mode. I also think it shuts off surround automatically if you set it to 192 kb/s, as Dolby can only handle up to 96 kb/s with 5.1 surround sound (due to optical bandwidth limitations.) I believe the Mixamp always just downscaled it depending on the source, where as the X7 doesn't.
  
 Edit: Just something I read a couple hours ago, but looks like the EL-8 may actually be a huge improvement over it's prototype: http://www.head-fi.org/t/759030/audeze-el-8-vs-oppo-pm-3-impressions/15


----------



## Snikerdewdle

Hey guys I'm new to headphones and am looking for a little help. I need some closed back headphones for gaming and listening to music on my pc. I've so far narrowed it down between the ath-m50x, COP+, and the momentum 2.0. I don't play any real competitive games just wow and league of Legends with a little CS:GO every once in a while. Any comparisons between those or other suggestions would really be appreciated.


----------



## Yethal

Mad, I've contacted Creative support asking them how to output SBX through line-out or s/pdif. Will update when they answer. Did the X7 control panel freeze for anyone else, or is it just my PC?


----------



## CannonCollector

quick question does anyone know about an amp or a DAC that let's you equalize the sound you hear (im not talking about EQ presets, I'm talking about an actual equalizer like you have on the computer)? Wondering since I'd like to use that on the ps4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The control panel is always freezing on me ifbi mess around with it too much like switching my headphones from the X7 to the Vali and back. The auto switching just induces problems.

And I've tried everything. Ive done all manner of switchings. SBX clearly only funcrions properly through the X7 headphone jack. Everything else, no.

Yethal, i hope you explicitly asked them about SBX surround through headphones, not just SBX processing which can and does toggle through the line out, but with no benefits to headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

snikerdewdle said:


> Hey guys I'm new to headphones and am looking for a little help. I need some closed back headphones for gaming and listening to music on my pc. I've so far narrowed it down between the ath-m50x, COP+, and the momentum 2.0. I don't play any real competitive games just wow and league of Legends with a little CS:GO every once in a while. Any comparisons between those or other suggestions would really be appreciated.




Soundmagic HP150 or HP100 with some Shure 1540 alcantara pads might be something you want to consider, as well. If I didn't already have so many headphones it would be in my collection as a closed option for gaming. My SRH1540 is too bassy at times. I remember the HP100's bass being more linear but with good impact and rumble, still. Not saying that's the one you should go for, just giving you another option to look at. If you're going to have a closed headphone for gaming, might want to get one compatible with those pads. You're going to need them for long gaming sessions over the standard pleathers that are the norm for most closed headphones.


----------



## burritoboy9984

rich887 said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> After this statement I'm seriously looking at the TH600. I bought the X1 based on your review and love it !! . I'm mostly into gaming / movie watching with my O2 Amp/ mixamp  so listening to music is secondary.  With that said could you just do a quick scale of initial impression of Dolby Surround in gaming / movies. ?




They pair very well with Dolby Headphone. If you search for my buddies posts "Happy Bullets" from a couple of years ago, you can grab his impressions. They are extremely good with DH, among the best I have heard when properly powered. As for using what you currently have to drive them, I have an O2 and have stole his pair for an extended period of time and they sound great from the O2.

-Erik


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The TH600 works wonderfully with virtual surround. One of those headphones that will leave an everlasting impression.


----------



## Rich887

Thanks for the reply Erik and MLE 

I think I'm gonna jump all over one of the B Stock TH600


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think you're gonna love it.

Is funny, I'm comparing the bass if the TH600 with the Custom One Pro. There is just so much more body in the sub bass and information that isn't there on the COP. The COP is supposed to be heavy on the bass and it is, yet somehow the TH600 has more presence down there without having that typical basshead bloat. It's so hard to describe. Fostex magic is all I can call it.


----------



## Rich887

I'm looking forward to finding out ! Just ordered from RazorDog should be here by Wednesday... Now what am I going to do with a New AKG K7XX which are supposed to arrive by Wednesday not to mention my Fidelio X1s'


----------



## Change is Good

rich887 said:


> I'm looking forward to finding out ! Just ordered from RazorDog should be here by Wednesday... Now what am I going to do with a New AKG K7XX which are supposed to arrive by Wednesday not to mention my Fidelio X1s'




There's a bug that's been known to be extremely contagious, around here. I am afraid it's too late for you...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy crap, he's going a mile a minute, lol. I suggest keeping the K7XX for the richer mids, returning the X1s, since they have a v shape kinda like the TH600, and are noticeably inferior, in particular, the bass.

As far as the X7 goes, I'm gonna be happy with it eventually once I see it as a dac/amp/virtual surrounnd solution. One that doesn't function well for external devices. Once I get past that, I'll be fine just using the X7 alone.


----------



## Rich887

That is exactly what I've been worried about LOL. Hopefully I will have audio nirvana and just be content in that !


----------



## Change is Good

Or return the X1 and get the 400i for even richer mids, and still keep the K7XX as an all rounder 

Or just return/sell them all and get a TH900 like I might...

Okay, maybe not...

Then, again, maybe...

Nah, not yet at least...


----------



## Rich887

Change .. You are absolutely not going to be my I'm falling off the wagon support call LOL but I'm glad you guys are here !


----------



## Stillhart

rich887 said:


> That is exactly what I've been worried about LOL. Hopefully I will have audio nirvana and just be content in that !


 
  
 Once you have all three at the same time, you'll get a very good idea of what you like and don't like.  It is super educational and should help you a lot when reading reviews online so you have a basis of comparison.  Those are all very nice headphones, you're lucky!


----------



## Rich887

It will be fun testing them all out can't wait !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Do you currently own anything? Trying to gauge your kind of preferences, or what you're used to.


----------



## Rich887

I've owned the X1's for about a year now ... I bought them after your review.. Also the Astro mix amp and the O2 Amp..Then I was interested in trying the Annie's because of your review and then I read Change's review of the AKG K7XX and I figured I'd jump in on the MassDrop. Figures though the 1st set that showed up rattled so they're sending me another pair this week and that leads me to tonight reading your excitement for the TH600 over the weekend .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lol, if you follow my every whim, you'll end up with a TH900 before you get a chance to enjoy all the other stuff!


----------



## Rich887

Your probably right LOL ...Thankfully I think after tonight's purchase my wife is gonna keep me in check or threaten me with losing some bodily appendage !


----------



## oscarc

mad lust envy said:


> Holy crap, he's going a mile a minute, lol. I suggest keeping the K7XX for the richer mids, returning the X1s, since they have a v shape kinda like the TH600, and are noticeably inferior, in particular, the bass.
> 
> As far as the X7 goes, I'm gonna be happy with it eventually once I see it as a dac/amp/virtual surrounnd solution. One that doesn't function well for external devices. Once I get past that, I'll be fine just using the X7 alone.


 
 You probably need more time with it to give a better answer/assessment, but after a couple of days do you think it is worth a $400 investment? I am trying to decide if I want to upgrade from my current MixAmp Pro 2013/O2 combo to an all-in-one solution. For the most part, I will be strictly using it for gaming with the XBOX One and watching tv/movies late at night. Maybe the X7 is overkill for how I would be using it, but would be nice to have just one device to connect my X1 or K7XX to. I recently received my tax refund money back and I am itching to buy something. I guess some of us on here have that same problem....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Routing everything to the X7's SPDIF in would be the absolute best case scenario in terms of less software headaches. If only I had my U3... I'm really irritated that it just disappeared on me. I do have an SPDIF switcher. That way I would just keep everything simple. I'm not liking the USB functionality on the X7. It's slow and sluggish with the control panel as it goes through so many internal steps when unplugging/inserting headphones. It switches from speaker to headphone mode, it breaks my media files to where I have to restart programs, it lags as I make changes (at times not accepting the changhes and defaulting back). 

I mean, it is a hassle. Not to mention you're bound by the control panel if you wanna go from sbx surround to the optimal direct mode whenever you're not playing games. Easy step is to stick to software mode and just toggle SBX off, but it's been known that it isn't as clear and technically proficient when not in direct mode. Basically, I see no reason to ever turn off SBX surround, when if you wanna NOT use it, you're better off going through the extra step of going to Direct mode. Should've been a much faster/easier way to go into direct mode. And I'm not even referring to the Android app which doesn't always accept my commands. It'll switch to direct, then jump back to software mode.

So is it worth it? Soundwise? Yes. The dac and amp are very, very good. SBX is awesome. Just don't try to do too many things, because the software is bound to mess something up, or you'll have to do workarounds like removing/inserting headphones to trick the software into switching.

It needs a firmware update, and fast. One thing they absolutely need to add is a way to disable auto switching from headphone to speakers. This is an absolutely essential.

I think I'm pretty tech savvy. The X7 is a piece of tech that requires a TON of patience. Not sure how long my already thin patience will last. Hell, I was watching a show, and the damn thing randomly cut off one of my channels. Had to remove/plug in headphone to fix it.

Basically, any time you have software problems with the X7, detach the headphone, give it a few seconds, then reattach. Probably going to fix the problem.


----------



## Yethal

I couldn't switch between the speaker taps and the line out. Imagine my surprise when I plugged my Magni to see whether I can hear a difference and the sound was coming literally outside my head.
 I'll have to get that extension cable from Recon 3d and use that for chat. Much more elegant solution than thr cable mess I have now.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So the Headphone processing to LINE OUT died with the X-Fi series.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> I couldn't switch between the speaker taps and the line out. Imagine my surprise when I plugged my Magni to see whether I can hear a difference and the sound was coming literally outside my head.
> I'll have to get that extension cable from Recon 3d and use that for chat. Much more elegant solution than thr cable mess I have now.




What do you mean?

Which I could show you guys all the absolute BS that I'm going through. Then you'd understand why I get so pissed off with this thing.

So I rested for a few hours. Went back online... the X7 isn't responding. None of my media players are working. Disconnected, connected the X7, restarted the X7 control panel....nothing. In order to fix this, I will literally have to restart the PC.

This type of thing is absolutely unnacceptable.

Yes, I'm venting.

Good thing I didn't sell my Mixamp. I'm returning this lump of crap.

AT this point, even if it did EVERYTHING I wanted, the fact that the software is so craptastic, and the fact that restarting the PC is the only TEMPORARY solutions to these problems is just... not my idea of a good product.

Yes, there are positive reviews, but I'm here to give you the OTHER side of what to expect with the X7. Frustrations after frustrations with it's flaky software.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, I'm definitely staying away from this device. I'm 100% secure on the PC but consoles still gotta run with the Mixamp unfortunately.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know what's funny though? I don't want anything else. I really want it for the stuff it does do well, like the spdif in. All I can do to mitigate the headache inducing software is to not use the software at all on my PC and stick to using the Android app. It'll at least keep the working stuff like SPDIF in just fine for my console use. 

The app isn't perfect, but it works a LOT better than the control panel on PC.

I'm guessing MAC users don't have it as bad.

Already found one problem with the app. On my Nexus 6, if i set it to direct mode, if for any reason I o anywhere that isn't the same screen where Direct is toggled, t automatically goes back to switches direct mode off. Meaning, I can't even let my phone shut the screen of f, as it goes back to the lock screen. Meaning I'm stuck with software mode.

Yeah, I seem to find all the problems with this thing. At this point, it's getting hilarious. I'm not even upset anymore, I'm just sad.


----------



## pack21

I don't use control panel on PC, and I don't know if it work well or not.

Because what i like is controlling my X7 with my smartphone, so good when I'm on couch Viewing my movies, listen my Spotify music or playing on PS4 and be able to answer my phone calls. 

In don't have the frustration your have.


My opinion is basically if someone don't have a smartphone, don't buy the X7.....For PC usage buy a internal soundcard.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> Which I could show you guys all the absolute BS that I'm going through. Then you'd understand why I get so pissed off with this thing.
> 
> ...




I've had issues with the auto-switch to speakers if a headphone is plugged in thing but this one is new. I've also experienced it auto-muting if you turn it on while speakers are plugged in, but that one seemed more like an "on purpose for safety" kind of thing. Did you try reinstalling the drivers?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just did. I'm gonna give it a few days of adjusting to it's 'quirks'.

So, I guess for the whole Android app always defaulting back to software mode and kicking off direct mode, I'm starting to understand why. Direct mode is for straight usb signal use and directly contradicts with the use of the app to begin with, since the app is bluetooth based, so going direct (aka turning off all processing except whatever direct mode you're using) would essentially turn off the app use, which is why you're not allowed to use direct mode when using the app...

Basically... if you're using the X7 for PC through USB, don't count on using the cleanest signal (direct mode) if you're using the phone app.

At least that 'issue' makes sense, and isn't an issue. The only way it will become an issue is if you have the app on, even if you're using the PC control panel. I suggest not using the app when doing some PC music listening. Direct mode does sound better, so the headache is worth it.

All the other quirks, that's gonna take time to address.
*
Note: Using the SPDIF direct DOES NOT TOGGLED OFF EVEN WITH APP USE. So as long as your optical source is set to stereo, you can use direct mode (of course this is a hassle for PS4 use, as you'll most likely always have dolby on, meaning direct mode goes silent). Still, if for some reason you have an spdif source that you are using and is stereo (I'm testing my laptop's optical out atm), spdif mode will work with the phone app without switching off, unlike the other direct mode (usb).*

Aren't you guys glad I'm testing out stuff that other people didn't mention? 

It's a damn shame there is only one optical input. My spdif switcher is causing pops and crackles, so I have to manually switch from ps4 to pc when using the optical. If only my optical on pc had a 5.1 output, that way I could just play games with sbx without relying on the iffy usb connection.


----------



## Stillhart

I missed what direct mode is.  I'm guessing you're using it to bypass DSP while listening to music on the PC; if so try using WASPI or ASIO exclusive mode on your music player.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> USB and SPDIF Direct Mode that bypasses the SB-Axx1™ DSP for bit perfect digital audio conversion.





 All I know is that it measures significantly better, as well as sounding noticeably better in real world testing. Earfonia's review goes in depth http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions

As for player, I'm a diueheard winamp user. Tried the other stuff before, didn't notice any real world improvements. All I know is that Direct mode was noticeable over the dsp mode (even when dsp options are all turned off).


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> All I know is that it measures significantly better, as well as sounding noticeably better in real world testing. Earfonia's review goes in depth http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions
> 
> As for player, I'm a diueheard winamp user. Tried the other stuff before, didn't notice any real world improvements. All I know is that Direct mode was noticeable over the dsp mode (even when dsp options are all turned off).


 
  
 I have been using Winamp for ages as well and I plan on sticking with it.  Here's the plugin I use to bypass DSP on my Omni.  It should work the same for your X7 as well:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/588677/a-short-audiophile-guide-to-winamp-w-maiko-wasapi
  
 The one gotcha with this setup is that you can't use sound in any other apps when you're playing music with WASPI enabled.  Youtube videos won't start, some games won't even launch.  But if you stop your music (you can leave Winamp open, just stopped and not paused), everything works like normal.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Kin
> 
> All I know is that it measures significantly better, as well as sounding noticeably better in real world testing. Earfonia's review goes in depth http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions
> 
> As for player, I'm a diueheard winamp user. Tried the other stuff before, didn't notice any real world improvements. All I know is that Direct mode was noticeable over the dsp mode (even when dsp options are all turned off).


 
 With direct mode turned off, the data goes through the DSP then the DAC chip. I believe, and don't quote me on this as I'm going off the other cards I've used from Creative, but the DSP downscales things to 96 kb/s whereas Direct Mode doesn't touch the digital signal (as the DSP in the ZxR couldn't handle anything above 96 kb/s unless you used direct mode.)


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> Where are you located. The Fidelio X2's customer service issue seems to be a problem basically in the USA. Other countries don't seem to have the same customer center/number, and are helped a bit faster. I think the X2 is worth the risk, certainly. The TH600 is special too, but it's more v-shaped, and not as well tested and experienced by many people. I may be in love with them, but I don't wanna be the only opinion that matters to you. I suggest reading up on these headphones via other reviews too.
> 
> I'm leaning on personally recommending the X2 mainly because it has a more balanced sound with less tonal shifts, plenty of praise and reviews, and cheaper price.


 
 How do the The K712 pro's stack up against the Fidelio X2's?


----------



## mindbomb

glow9 said:


> How do the The K712 pro's stack up against the Fidelio X2's?


 
 that's a good question. The fidelio has a bigger driver but the akg has a more open design.


----------



## Change is Good

Both would fall in the open all rounder area, with the K712 being the more open sounding and balanced of the two. My choice, personally, would be the K712.


----------



## dakanao

Imo the Creative Aurvana Live sound VERY open for a closed headphone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've done that Still, and I don't feel it's any real difference from just using Winamp alone without those special steps. If something is too much of a hassle for no honest to goodness real world difference, I don't use it.

I missed the TH900 delivery. Now i gotta pick it up tomorrow. Bah. They usually leave the package in the front door, bit i guess it's a bit too pricey.


----------



## Evshrug

Wow Mad, sorry to hear about all your troubles. I guess I haven't had most of them, because I usually just play on my PlayStation 4. I will say that I've been trying to do twitch streaming with a new piece of software recently, and I have experienced some freezing and slow down. I didn't know if it was due to the X7, the game I was playing and it's installation, twitch, the twitch broadcasting app, or even the dual shock controller I had plugged into the PC. With all those variables, imagine the nightmare I was having in troubleshooting the source! For example, I included the dual shock because I have noticed that after two levels of Devil May Cry, I suddenly get massive frame rate drops which go away immediately after I unplugged the USB from my dual shock!

So looking forward to mainly going back to Mac.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn't switch between the speaker taps and the line out. Imagine my surprise when I plugged my Magni to see whether I can hear a difference and the sound was coming literally outside my head.
> ...


 
 There is no option to switch between speaker taps and the line output so, what i thought was a clean signal going to my Magni, was actually a clean signal going to both the Magni and the speaker taps.
  
 Important stuff: Creative rep got back to me. In order to send SBX processed two channel audio through S/PDIF You need to send 5.1 signal to the X7 and then set the Speakers/ Headphones configurations to 2.0/2.1 S/PDIF Direct. I'm pretty sure this is not what we were hoping to achieve but it's worth a try nonetheless.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> I've done that Still, and I don't feel it's any real difference from just using Winamp alone without those special steps. If something is too much of a hassle for no honest to goodness real world difference, I don't use it.
> 
> I missed the TH900 delivery. Now i gotta pick it up tomorrow. Bah. They usually leave the package in the front door, bit i guess it's a bit too pricey.


 
  
 Sorry if I wasn't clear.  The real world difference is being able to keep SBX on at all times, while still having your music bypass the DSP (similar to the Direct Mode that you couldn't get woring reliably).  It's a lot of steps the first time you set it up and then it just works.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oooh. I'll have to try it out again then.


----------



## Change is Good

Ended up trying the stock pads back on the 1540, once again, because I REALLY want to like them out of sheer comfort. Thing is, I wasn't wrong when saying it sounds... just... average. I don't know what it is about the alpha pads that totally transforms headphones, but man, as a result I am finding it that much harder to sell my 1540. No lie when I say the sound matches its price with a proper seal. Love the alcantara pads, but the lack of isolation really handicaps its potential.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey Mad, you really need to sign up for the PM-2 loaner program.  I've got the PM-2 right now and it's really impressive.  It basically sounds like the LCD-2f but with slightly better bass and treble.  It's also lighter, more comfortable, better looking, sturdier, easier to drive and cheaper.  It sounds great right out of my X5 and only at 40% volume.
  
 Basically it's better than the LCD-2f in every way, as far as I'm concerned.  It's still got that warm sound signature so I prefer the more lively HE-560, but for anyone who likes that warm LCD sound, the PM-2 is a must-listen.  That also goes for anyone considering the similarly priced EL-8 (@PacoTaco).  
  
 I can totally see why Tyll replaced the LCD-2 on his Wall of Fame with the PM-1/PM-2.  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/738309/oppo-pm-1-pm-2-loaner-program


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sure I'd like it a lot then. But right now, for the big foreseeable future, I think headphones will be put on hold, while I enjoy the TH900 and X2. For reviewing purposes, sure I'll try them out eventually. But I'm getting a little burned out on reviews and may ask the Guru guys to give me a bit of time before they send me anything else. I'm literally finishing the COP review, then jumping straight to the TH600 before I return it, and then the TH900. That's 4 straight reviews in a short time (Shure 1540 was recently finished).

I wanna enjoy my headphones instead of feeling like an obligation. That was mainly why I had such a big break from reviews the last time (think it was something like 4 months). This still is a hobby, not a job. When it starts feeling like a job without the job pay, that's when I need to take a moment. To put things in perspective, the TH900 + X7 = nearly 10% of my *yearly* income. I don't mind telling you guys how these purchases require some super frugality afterwards. That's why spending money to ship headphones I borrowed back to the owners actually still puts a dent in my wallet. If it wasn't for the companies/whatnot giving me the shipping labels to send stuff out, I wouldn't even be doing those reviews.

You may ask, if I'm so poor, why did I buy a flagship like the TH900? The answer is, because that will keep me from constantly buy/losing money by sticking to the mid tier, and not being 100% happy with the gear I bought. By going straight to a dream headphone, this will effectively stoop all those times I lose money by selling, shipping stuff back with restocking fees, etc. I have a concrete plan to never, ever buy another closed headphone now that I've gone back to my ideal D7000-esque sound. Something I should've done ages ago. I'm future proofing here. The initial impact is quite costly, but in the grand sheme of things, it will actually save me money. Not saying anyone should follow the same path. Experimenting with different headphones is all fun and fine, but I had zoned in on my ideal sound years ago. I should've stopped back then. You best believe if the D7000 was still sold for $600, I'd have bought that instead, and ran away. But the price of the D7000 is now basically just under the price of the TH900 (when it's at a good deal). And we're talking used, and out of warranty, with no real way of knowing if there are replacement parts/drivers available for the D7000 nowadays.


----------



## Change is Good

I think it is safe to say this thread will start to be consistent (though boring?), again, for a good while. I'm liking the different styles and everyone seems to be content with their setups. The diversity in taste along with all the prior wallet wrenching experience is what makes this place so special. We know what to recommend, depending on taste, at what price range. We deserve awards for this schiit...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This is what we deserve: 



Spoiler: explict lyrics



[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoLRpCtwfiQ[/VIDEO]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This may sound like hyperbole, but holy *****, pictures do not do it justice. The TH900's deep, dark color is just...I have never seen any TH900 that captures how amazing it looks.

I'm in literal awe. Practicality speaking, I STILL prefer the TH600's textured black magnesium, but aesthetically, holy gee, the TH900's color is like... breathtaking.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's not. It's most beautiful piece of headphone art. Simply is.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> This may sound like hyperbole, but holy *****, pictures do not do it justice. The TH900's deep, dark color is just...I have never seen any TH900 that captures how amazing it looks.
> 
> I'm in literal awe. Practicality speaking, I STILL prefer the TH600's textured black magnesium, but aesthetically, holy gee, the TH900's color is like... breathtaking.



Now the all important question, does it sound $500 better then the th600?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In short: I haven't heard the TH600 since early yesterday, but it does remind me VERY MUCH of it. I've been spending way too much time on the Custom One Pro, so I can't say how much improved the TH900 is over the TH600 yet.

Price isn't a factor when you want perfection, and I'm starting to understand it now.

But in logical, common sense terms, I'd say the TH600 is an absolute MUST buy at $500, IMHO. It sounds a LOT like what I'm hearing of the TH900 right now. How it compares, I'm not comfortable in saying after having spent all night with the COP, which has thrown my TH600 memory out of balance.


----------



## Change is Good

So, no treble spike?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so quick A/B testing, the TH600 and TH900 have shockingly similar tonal balance. Same dips and peaks, running frequency tests.

At this moment in time (10 minutes from actually going to sleep), I would absolutely fail a blind test.

So regardless of the actual improvements on the TH900, the TH600 gives you most of the immediate performance, IMHO.

This is early impressions, from a tired as all hell person (literally stayed up past my bedtime to pick these up from the post office and test for a few songs).


Take that as you will. Extensive testing and adapting to it's sound will tell me how similar they actually are.

Change, same 5khz spike, same 7.5khz dip, same rise to 10khz. 5khz is still the strongest peak, an still not an issue at my dynamic volume level (I test for peaks at a high decibel level, higher than my normal listening volume). The 10khz is not a problem whatsoever.


I promise to let you guys know once I feel comfortable and have extensively tested it. You know first day impressions aren't the ones to base judgement. The one thing that is easy to say is that it sounds amazing, and the bass is as awesome as I'd hoped it was.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

First day, blunt impression: you know i wont BS you guys. So i will say that for the few songs and quick testing, I would say feel at ease if you buy the TH600. Youre getting 9/10 maybe more of the TH900 sound for less than half price. Only go for the TH900 if you want the most out of that sound, at least from whatvI expect, once my brain and ears have broken the TH900 in, and I'm in an awoken state of mind.

Honestly, it makes more sense to go for the TH600. If you dont like it, chances are you won't like the TH900, at least so far. If you end up loving the TH600, and feel like paying double for possibly a slightly warmer, and more refined sound, then by all means try the TH900. I'd venture that the price to performance will have most of you getting the TH600 instead and supplementing it with a different headphone.

I'm not dealing with absolutes. Perhaos in the next week, I'll have a huge epiphany with the TH900 and say its worth everyone else jumo straight to it. I doubt this though. Still, there's no way the TH900 will disappoint.


----------



## pack21

Hi, are you examining the TH600/900 for gaming or only for music purposes? This days i get confused if some headphones are awesome for gaming or not, or just for music.

I miss the days here with in-depth analysis of headphones behavior only for Surround, SQ gaming/movies purposes, great and useful time.

Thanks to you I have my great and awesome MA900, that pleasure me every day for gaming and watching movies, Thx Mad.


----------



## Rich887

mad lust envy said:


> In short: I haven't heard the TH600 since early yesterday, but it does remind me VERY MUCH of it. I've been spending way too much time on the Custom One Pro, so I can't say how much improved the TH900 is over the TH600 yet.
> 
> Price isn't a factor when you want perfection, and I'm starting to understand it now.
> 
> But in logical, common sense terms, I'd say the TH600 is an absolute MUST buy at $500, IMHO. It sounds a LOT like what I'm hearing of the TH900 right now. How it compares, I'm not comfortable in saying after having spent all night with the COP, which has thrown my TH600 memory out of balance.


 

 Glad to hear that MLE !!    My TH600's arrive on Thursday cant wait...


----------



## Evshrug

pack21 said:


> I miss the days here with in-depth analysis of headphones behavior only for Surround, SQ gaming/movies purposes, great and useful time.




Uh, the days of "in-depth" gaming review with surround are not gone, in fact I think you arrived around the tail end of when Mad was exploring Soundbars (we call those the Dark Ages), he's pretty back in stride and there are also plenty of regulars posting impressions in-thread of their headphones, encouraging others to do the same. Mad's reviews on the front page talk about soundstage and how well they work with a headphone DSP, though he doesn't repeat himself and tends to focus on what will be the "main attraction" of a headphone, which IMO is interesting too.

Why not post a review of your headphone, how you'd like to explain it?


----------



## Rich887

Just got my new AKG K7XX  today... These cans are Amazing I see why Change likes them so much. !!


----------



## Stillhart

rich887 said:


> Just got my new AKG K7XX  today... These cans are Amazing I see why Change likes them so much. !!


 
  
 Yep, there's a reason we keep recommending the AKG's.  My Q701 is the first headphone I bought after joining Head-fi and I still have it after going through many other headphones since then.  At one point, @Evshrug had three different AKG's at the same time... I think he still has two!  lol


----------



## Evshrug

I sold my Q701 to a buddy as part of a gaming setup, because I wanted to treat him to the world of high-fidelity audio. He was thrilled! And then XBone and the master chief collection stole him from my heart 
RIP ZehRO-leaf.

But yeah, I wanted to compare the different models, the problem was I ended up liking them all. My K612 is currently on it's way back from Tyll and his headphone measurements...

Still, just had a thought: getting my headphones back in the mail might delay upgrade-itis! Lol!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll be close to done (should be finished with the COP review tonight), so tomorrow I can focus on the 600 and 900, though I can't honestly say i will have enough time comparing asnI have to return the 600. Im just gonna focus on what's different.


----------



## Rich887

Figured I'd watch Avatar to test out the Mixamp and I'll swear the soundstage and airiness of these K7XX makes me feel 
Like I'm on Pandora !! I'm even going to say for me they beat my Fidelio X1's . Gonna have to try some gaming but now back to the movie..


----------



## Sam21

just a quick question:
  
 If you had both Mixamp pro 2013 and the new Tritton Decoder box, which one would you be using ? and why...I have both and have a hard time deciding which one to use with my consoles...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty sure they're so hard to decide from because they both use the same Dolby Headphone dsp, and have ssimilar functions. They're literally too similar to say which one is superior. I suggest choosing whichbis more practical in your setup. I like that the Tritton box is like a standard set top, so you dont have your optical cables running up next to you, and the AX720's puck is thebonly thing running between you and the box. The Mixamp will have everything running between you and your sources, so its more of a cable mess.

Im assuming the hiss level is similar. Before, would choose the Mixamp because it was much less hissy. Now, the Mixamp hisses quite a bit more.


----------



## Change is Good

Going live, folks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playing what? Though I'm a bit busy.


----------



## Change is Good

You know I'm playing Hardline lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eww.


----------



## Change is Good

Show you how a pro does it


----------



## Yethal

I got another mail from the Creative rep. I'd paste it here but it's all in Polish. What's important is that he confirmed that *it is currently not possible to output SBX processed stereo through either line-out or S/PDIF*.  I asked them whether that functionality could be added in the next firmware revision. Also, they really need to start using spellcheck.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I knew it.

I'm glad that's cleared up. Just confirms that what people that was surround was just overly processed stereo. If there is one thing I know, it's how crazy different real virtual surround sounds compared to improperly processed stereo.

You may wanna note that for the Creative X7 thread too.

I think all they have to do is NOT disable the headphone setting on the control panel. It seems to me that the X7 CAN send the same audio to every single one of it's output as long as it's in software mode (not direct). If the X7 believes it's in headphone mode, it SHOULD send SBX surround algorhythm meant for headphones through it's spdif and line out. A firmware update may fix this. Whether Creative will send it... is highly doubtful.

At least I believe a simple firmware that allows the outputs to receive the same software processing as the headphone jack should be possible. It's all tied to the SBX surround software setting.

My guess is that Creative thought people wouldn't need/want to use external headphone related components to the spdif and line out, and assumed those things would make more sense being speaker oriented.

i guess I can test the SBX headphone surround algorhythm via the line out by leaving a 6.3mm adapter plugged into the headphone jack, tricking the X7 into staying in Headphone mode. I doubt it will work, but I'll try it when I get home.


----------



## FireFreak111

I just received the Philips X2, impressed by its soundstage and bass. But I am hearing more distortion then before, as though the DAC/AMP cannot feed the Philips X2 properly. Would the 23ohm output impedance on the Xonar U7 heavily effect the quality of the sound? It's not even close to a 2/1 ratio, its actually a 1.5/1 ratio, which is very poor.
  
 Also, I want to again not recommend the Xonar U7. If you want guaranteed virtual surround, and to know your not getting stereo with a surround effect, dont get it. If you want any form of surround sound from games, dont get it. If you have a low-impedance headphone, dont get it. If you have an older computer and dont have modern USB ports (USB 3.0 drivers with lower latency), dont get it. Just dont get it. It's not worth it. The U3 has the same problems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, the U3 has guaranteed virtual surround.

First and foremost, you must set the sound devices to 24/48 (IIRC). Any higher, it will not let you configure speakers to 5.1/7.1 which NEEDS to be enabled before even bothering with the U3 control panel. Once that has been set, the U3's control panel must be set to Dolby Headphone (again, sound devices speakers for the U3 must be at 5.1 or 7.1 24/48)

Make sure in the U3 panel that Dolby Headphone has been checked, and i suggest the Room 2 setting.

THEN start a game. If these settings arent correct, your games will not be virtual surround.

There is a lot of initial options to go through, but once its all correct, no reason why it wont do things right.

And yes, 23 ohm is way too high for the X2. You should mostly follow a 1/8 rule. Meaning you want nothing more than 1ohm of output impedance PER EVERY 8ohms of a headphone. That ensures proper damping. It isnt a golden rule, but one to follow for the most part. So for a 32ohm headphone, do the math: 4 ohms or less. I use a Vali, which is 6.5ohm and thus isn't ideal for stuff under 52ohm, as it may make the tonal balance of a headphone sound fifferent than what it sounds when properly dampened, but it's not always the case, depending on headphone.

The beauty of something like the U3, is that there is an SPDIF out option that you can set to PCM dolby headphone, allowing you to use your own dac and amp (assuming your dac has an spdif input like the Fiio E17.


----------



## FireFreak111

My mistake, I thought the U3 used Dolby Home Theatre v4, it actually uses Dolby Headphone as you said. DHT v4 has issues with actually allowing you to set it to 5.1 or 7.1 in the driver. It only reports Stereo on headphones. Ever. No options, no registry edit, no hack, modded driver, nothing. Driver team is unable to understand the problem, they don't seem to get the concept of virtual surround (they keep saying I don't get surround because the headphone is only stereo -_-).
  
 This impedance problem will definitely push forward replacing the U7. The DHT v4 issues was reason enough. Might get the X7 afterall, despite its lack of HDMI. DTS-HD native decoding is coming to the LAV Filters, so MPC-HC will support native decoding of DTS, DTS-ES and DTS-HD MA, on top of its existing TrueHD decoding. No need for bitstreaming. That was my only issue with the X7, besides its $550 AUD price tag.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so a few more tests (both are hooked up directly to both the X7's headphone jacks, so I can swap in an instant):

TH900 is slightly more sensitive in volume than the TH600. You can't simply leave the volume in the same spot. Loudness wars and all that. So yes, at the same volume spot on an amp, the TH900 will automatically win due to a slightly higher db level.

That aside, once you readjust for the less sensitive TH600, I can compare better. There I hear some definite differences.

The TH900 is unquestionably wider AND deeper in the soundstage, I tried various tracks as well as gaming tests in virtual surround. In direct comparison, the TH600 actually sounds more closed in (which I thought impossible, as it has a very damn good soundstage itself). The TH900 projects a soundstage that reaches actually/noticeably further out in width most noticeably, and slightly further in front and behind. I can now hear the difference even if I were to blind test.

Through some more tests AND pink noise, you can tell the TH900 is more tubey in sound, with a smoother sound. It definitely has a hint of warmth over the TH600. Both still have some crisp treble.

What the TH900 has over the TH600 that makes it worthwhile, is a sense of dynamic energy that actually makes the TH600 sounds just slightly dull, next to it. Hard to explain. Also like it were being underdriven, if that makes sense. Not that it is the truth, as the TH600 is plenty dynamic with energy, just... NEXT to the TH900. The TH900 has a sense of musicality slightly more engaging...

I mean, you can't even deny it once you hear it.

So yes, the TH900 IS an improvement over the TH600, though I still stand by saying they sound very similar, with a slight tonal shift between them, the TH600 being slightly more dry, and brighter as the immediate differences.

Again, don't feel bad if you went with the TH600. You're getting a LOT of the TH900 sound. If you love it and decide in the future you want that last bit of refinement in smoothness, soundstage, and dynamics, the TH900 will be for you. I wouldn't be mad if I were 'stuck' with the TH600. However, now having the TH900, I do see the worth of jumping up, though it's still a bit exorbitantly priced. If the TH900 looked exactly the same as the TH600, I'd value it at $200-$300 more for the improvement, but that's just me. I know the price for improvements jumps up considerably at these price ranges.


If there were ever a reason why I had to get rid of the TH900 for any reason, I would be more than happy to downgrade to the TH600. It is a banger. I would say to you guys on the guide to try the TH600 first, for sure.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm happy for you man. Finally where I wanted you to be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Let me tell you. You will be amazed even years from now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I simply can't believe how exquisite the bass is without having the drawbacks of a basshead headphone or of a headphone lacking in emphasis. It is simply an ideal solution for people like me.

It's different from the D7000, yet it has a similarity that can't be denied. It makes it a much better all rounder, though I will still miss the extra injection of vibrant bass on the D7K for certain things.

Still, if I had to choose nowadays, it's definitely the TH900. It is the evolved form of what I loved about the D7K with my more matured taste in refinement.


----------



## Stillhart

I guess @AxelCloris ad I have something to look for next week at Canjam.  I was considering the PM-3 as an upgrade for my work setup.  Might be worth thinking about the extra $100 for the TH600.  
  
 Are they as huge and bulky looking as they seem from the photos?  I really don't want my work setup to be conspicuous.  That means things like the ZMF and Alpha Dogs are out...


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> I guess @AxelCloris ad I have something to look for next week at Canjam.  I was considering the PM-3 as an upgrade for my work setup.  Might be worth thinking about the extra $100 for the TH600.
> 
> Are they as huge and bulky looking as they seem from the photos?  I really don't want my work setup to be conspicuous.  That means things like the ZMF and Alpha Dogs are out...


 
  
 My thoughts exactly. I'll give the TH600 a listen next week. I'm assuming it'll be too bassy for my tastes but I'd be happy to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## LB Felipe

When selected RCA output, the knob on the X7 controls the volume?


----------



## Change is Good

Must...
  
 Resist...
  
 Urge...


----------



## Yethal

Considering the fact that other (and cheaper) soundblaster cards can output virtual surround through S/PDIF it seems only logical for the X7 to be capable of that. I hope they'll add that functionality soon.


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Considering the fact that other (and cheaper) soundblaster cards can output virtual surround through S/PDIF it seems only logical for the X7 to be capable of that. I hope they'll add that functionality soon.


 
 My theory is they saw people using the X7 with the optical out as more of a "to a receiver" kind of thing.
  
 Doesn't justify **** though.


----------



## Sam21

I don't know, Maybe I am wrong but After inspecting many sound cards with virtual surround, I have come to the conclusion that newer surround algorithms can make virtual surround out of merely stereo[two channels] ... SBX and DHT 4.0 for instance.
  
 You might argue that by lowering the bit rate you can set the input channels to 5.1/7.1 but I think that is the case because the sound card also has 5.1/7.1 true surround output so the 5.1/7.1 input part is for true surround only....the creative Omni and Xonar U7 are good examples.
  
  
 Think about it this way : Imagine you have a true 7.1 speaker setup as well as an stereo setup, with the 7.1 setup you don't hear anything extra, you hear exactly the same things that you hear in a stereo setup....the difference being that the game software can turn the sound into 7.1 channels.
  
  
 maybe there is some sort of a new upmatrixing technology, much like Pro Logic II(x), perhaps more advanced, that can turn any stereo into virtual surround.
  
 again, I Don't know for sure, just a thought.


----------



## CannonCollector

mad lust envy said:


> I simply can't believe how exquisite the bass is without having the drawbacks of a basshead headphone or of a headphone lacking in emphasis. It is simply an ideal solution for people like me.
> 
> It's different from the D7000, yet it has a similarity that can't be denied. It makes it a much better all rounder, though I will still miss the extra injection of vibrant bass on the D7K for certain things.
> 
> Still, if I had to choose nowadays, it's definitely the TH900. It is the evolved form of what I loved about the D7K with my more matured taste in refinement.


 
 quick question, do the TH600/900 vibrate when a lot of sub bass is present? I have the SZ's and they vibrate a lot in the sub bass area (they are considered to be at a similiar level to the TH when it comes to bass so just wondering if that happens with the TH... would be impressive(and immersive) considering their clarity and everything


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, they have a very pleasing vibration. Not as much as the D7000, but in the same 'family' of bass.

I'd like to say that the TH600 has a slightly stronger midbass. Probably why the TH900 sounds cleaner.


----------



## Mach3

Just got a Astro Mixamp Pro base off your review.
 Unless you crank it up really the hissing/noise floor is bearable.
 Works great with my V-Moda M100 with the PS3. Too scared to try it with my TH-900. Afraid I might drop them in the heat of the battle.
  
 Turtle Beach DSS (old version) I've still got one of these. I'm confused why on earth any company would even release it to the public.
 The noise is so bad at any volume level. It some how manage to make everything you listen through it worst.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How do you drop them? Heat of the battle? How are you actually playing? Are you jumping around and do barrel rolls?


----------



## Sanctuary

How does the bass on the AKG K712 Pro sound compared to the Alpha Dogs?  The ADs are more of a totally neutral sound, which is fine for most things, but are really lacking bass for action movies.  I just picked up the Sony HW700ds (50mm driver) mostly for the Wii U, and just to see how the surround field compared to Dolby Headphone with my Essence STX.  I don't really like the virtualization that Sony uses as much as Dolby Headphone or DTS Headphone X, because the "center" sounds like it's inside your head; but I can't honestly tell if it's the virtualization or the headphones themselves.  Regardless, aside from the center sounding way off, everything else is actually pretty well done.  One area that is absolutely excels at though is bass, and not at the cost of drowning out the other frequencies.  Explosions in action movies actually sound like explosions.  In fact, these sound way better than the Ultrasone Pro 900 (IMO) for action movies overall, cost $100 less and come with the decoder/HDMI matrix box.
  
 I was fine with the ADs, amped with a Lyr until I started watching movies with the Sony cans, but considering I can't hook up any other headphones to the Sony box, I can't really test any others with it and I need something else for Dolby Headphone.  If there is actually anything that has a great sound field with actual bass.  When I purchased the ADs, it was a toss up between those and the K712 Pro, but I'm not really looking for another anemic, but "wide" headphone.  I have my DT880s for that; which are also perfectly fine for gaming.  I actually don't need another pair of gaming headphones, but there's not really any other threads dedicated to DH.
  
 Hmm, should I actually be looking at the TH900 instead?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You want explosive quality for movies, consider the TH600. K712 has a nice mid bass, but its sub bass will be lacking compared to even the Alpha Dogs. Sub bass is monstrous on the TH600 while still remaining very clean and spacious. Seriously, you haven't heard bass until you heard Fostex bass.

It isnt basshead, its subbass head while still not being overstated in general. Its hard to define because the bass packs a wallop without having that typical basshead bloatiness.


----------



## Sanctuary

I guess I'll read your impressions of the TH600 and TH900. The sub bass on the Sony headphones are actually pretty phenomenal.  Actually, the overall frequency response seems extremely smooth from the lowest lows and the highest highs and without silibance (which is what I loathed about the Ultrasones).  Like I said in my previous post though, the center is just way off.  There's literally no projection at all, and it's almost like wearing IEMS for that channel.
  
 edit: Oh, I guess you haven't reviewed them.  So are the TH900 more detailed, while the TH600 have more impact for movies?  How's the sound stage for both?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're both very similar. I wrote the difference a page or do ago.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I owned the Sony system for a short while out of curiousity as it supports every damn format via HDMI, has it's own VSS, is wireless etc..(ok, no Atmos)...unfortunately it fell short. 
  
 I can agree on the center inside the head (which never happens with TH-900, especially HD 800) which basically takes away a good bit of immersion - like, GO AWAY YOU DAMN VOICE AND HUGE THE SCREEN DAMNIT. 
  
 I want a pure HDMI device from Creative. No nonsense. EVERY FORMAT, HDMI in, HDMI/OPTICAL OUT, SBX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want a device, NOT from Creative.

Here's the most blunt description I could say defines the X7; It is LITERALLY an external soundcard. If you're looking for plug and play use, think again, as you're 100% tethered to either the computer software, or the phone app. Without these, there is absolutely no way to switch inputs, or use the much needed options like going from Direct to software mode.

So say, you listen to music from a music player via the PS3 (just as an example), to get the back to stereo, you either toggle off SBX in front (thankfully it at least allows that), or go to the app or control panel through your Pc (meaning changing my TV's input) and change it to direct, then switch the TV input BACK to the PS3. I mean, come on.

Yes it's not hard, but it is a damn unnecessary hassle.

I prefer another company take a stab, even if it's without SBX. I'll easily settle for Dolby Headphone, as it still has better surround cues, at the expense of more reverb (which I'm a-ok with for gaming and movies).

I'm keeping my X7, but I'm very disappointed in it's functionality. I did not wanna be forcefully tethered to the software and/or app.

For example: what i wanted is to be able to turn my PS4 on, turn on my X7, and easily play in SBX. Then if I'm done and wanna listen to music, press a button to go to direct mode in stereo. But nope. Gotta have a second screen or forcefully go to a PC and change the settings.

Creative, put manual buttons in the back if need be. Forcing software use is effing BS.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, I'll even settle for less. Give me optical in, optical out, I even accept AC3 only for the device to create a binaural sr stereo signal from.
  
 Just so I can escape from having to amp from lowly devices. Whenever I am back on PC (which I am mostly) I feel like being in the future again.


----------



## RRod

mad lust envy said:


> I'm keeping my X7, but I'm very disappointed in it's functionality. I did not wanna be forcefully tethered to the software and/or app.


 
  
 Being a Linux user this is why I didn't get it: I didn't want to have to have ANOTHER computer sitting next to my laptop just to be able to change settings on the X7 (since we don't even get the option of native software on Linux). At the least they could have shipped it out with a remote that could do basic switching of channel and DSP options. As it stands, for 100-200 bucks more (or same price if there's a sale) I could get another Yamaha receiver that has umpteen HDMI inputs and Silent Cinema (perhaps not as good as SBX) that has enough button/remote interfacing to do what I'd want.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can someone provide a step by step of what the guy was implying a few pages ago about routing the audio to 'what you hear' on the PC to get virtual surround off the line out? I can't quite grasp what to do.

edit: NVM I think it was on the X7 thread.

Damn, I'm contemplating getting my $400 back, and getting a Modi 2 Uber. I already have the Vali as my amp which I'm preferring over the X7 simply due to a fuller bass and analogous sound.

X7 killed it by not allowing SBX through the Line Out. I don't care about another dac as the one in the X7 sounds fantastic. But I want the option of the Vali for my amp, especially when the volume pot is horrible on the X7.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Massdrop has the Phillips 9500's again for cheap. For anyone looking for an excellent entry level gaming headphone with detachable cable, look no further.

Erik


----------



## cdsa35000

mad lust envy said:


> X7 killed it by not allowing SBX through the Line Out. I don't care about another dac as the one in the X7 sounds fantastic. But I want the option of the Vali for my amp, especially when the volume pot is horrible on the X7.




You can use the headphone output with 3.5/6.5mm jack to RCA Y-cable, its as good same as Line out.
Mostly Line outs just have a fixed output level without volume control.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I was doing that today, using headphone out to Vali. Still, one of the reasons why I wanted was because I thought it'd do SBX through other outputs. I'm essentially doing the same crap as the Mixamp by attaching to the headphone out. The main difference here is that the X7 is essentially hiss free, changing from DH to SBX, and a much better internal dac. I mean all good things, but the quirks on the X7 like volume level blindness is just... something that will haunt me for the X7's whole life.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> I prefer another company take a stab, even if it's without SBX. I'll easily settle for Dolby Headphone, as it still has better surround cues, at the expense of more reverb (which I'm a-ok with for gaming and movies).


 
  
 Well there is.  Kind of...
 DTS Headphone X is the "next big thing" as far as actual competition to Dolby Headphone and by all accounts sounds a bit better.  They just need to actually start manufacturing devices outside of some generic Turtle Beach headset that uses it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean one with the ability to attach another dac or amp and retain the virtual surround. I don't wana double amp anything through the headphone jack. I was fine enough doing that with the Mixamp.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> I mean one with the ability to attach another dac or amp and retain the virtual surround. I don't wana double amp anything through the headphone jack. I was fine enough doing that with the Mixamp.


 

 Not sure how you could use an additional DAC on top of a DAC/DSP.  I want something like that too, but it seems like it's always going to be a packaged deal.


----------



## AxelCloris

sanctuary said:


> Not sure how you could use an additional DAC on top of a DAC/DSP.  I want something like that too, but it seems like it's always going to be a packaged deal.


 
  
 You'd be using the DSP in the device (X7) and then the DAC in the external DAC. I've done it in the past with the U3. USB DSP > Optical > DAC > amp > headphone. There's only one DAC in that chain.


----------



## Sanctuary

axelcloris said:


> You'd be using the DSP in the device (X7) and then the DAC in the external DAC. I've done it in the past with the U3. USB DSP > Optical > DAC > amp > headphone. There's only one DAC in that chain.


 

 If that's the case, then I wonder if it's possible to pair wired headphones with the Sony HW700 HDMI box, using something like this:
  
 http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2&AID=11051853&PID=6155355&ref=cj&utm_source=cj&utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink-2470763#specifications
  
 It has a headphone jack, but if it's really generic, even a good amp won't fix it.

 Then there's the analog version with:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-107112-Matrix-Switch-Analog/dp/B004264PT0
  
 I'm also not even sure if the HW700 outputs audio at all through ARC, and that it's just video.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I mean one with the ability to attach another dac or amp and retain the virtual surround. I don't wana double amp anything through the headphone jack. I was fine enough doing that with the Mixamp.


 
  
 Dan, son, so the X7 isn't working out how you wanted? You still have the 5.8?


----------



## Yethal

Well, there is one way to send SBX to line out. Spam creative software with emails until they add it in a firmware update. Might work.
  
 Also, I'm sending my Modmic for a cable mod (I'll call it ModModmic from now on). It's regular cable is 3m long. I'll have it cut into 1,2 cable with 1,8 extension. This coupled with 1,2m 598 cable will make for a nice, short headset cable. Then I'll recover the Soundblaster Recon 3D extension cable from the guy I gave it to (he doesn't use it) to have pretty clean voice chat on PS4. I recommend this solution to all of you guys. There are a few people who own Soundblaster Recon 3d USB here and might be willing to share.


----------



## PacoTaco

sanctuary said:


> Not sure how you could use an additional DAC on top of a DAC/DSP.  I want something like that too, but it seems like it's always going to be a packaged deal.


 
  
 Using the optical out bypasses the DAC to use another one. However, it also bypasses the SBX processing the DSP uses despite their manual saying it doesn't.
  
 Actually, did the customer service rep tell you it didn't MLE? It says it does in the manual.


----------



## Sam21

when is turtle beach TAC coming out ?


----------



## shamowfski

Went with the DT990's based on this thread.  Couldn't be happier so far.  Paired with a xonar stx.


----------



## Change is Good

shamowfski said:


> Went with the DT990's based on this thread.  Couldn't be happier so far.  Paired with a xonar stx.


 
  
 Congrats!


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> when is turtle beach TAC coming out ?



At CES, turtle beach rep didn't outright say it but heavily suggested no time soon, no demo or prototype units at the show.


----------



## Mach3

shamowfski said:


> Went with the DT990's based on this thread.  Couldn't be happier so far.  Paired with a xonar stx.


 
  
 Yeah the DT990 is way better than 90% of the so call gaming headphone on the market. Very underrated IMO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Problem with the 990 is that the treble range is so strong and ear piercing, lots of people can't listen to them for long periods. Very sizzly. That is about the only thing that is problematic on the 990, but since it's almost all located at 10khz, it's pretty easy to EQ-down. Personally, I'm not bothered too much by 10khz peaks. I have much more problems with headphones that have strong peaks between 4-9khz. Those are areas where lots more information is located, so when that is ear fatiguing, it can be quite a consistent problem.


----------



## Change is Good

Pair of Annies for $240 in classifieds? Somebody better hop on these, I sure would if I didn't already have the K7XX. I think this is the lowest price I've ever seen...
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/759631/akg-702-annies


----------



## AkyroZ

hello Mad Lust Envy senpai notice me=) i need your help i decided to go for new build, my current headset is really really bad( for 4$=) ) and i want to change it. I don't know what to do. For satisfication(especially for sound) which idea is better headset or headphone+mic combination? mostly playing mmorpg and fps games. It would be awesome if i have a chance to get a good option for both music and gaming. i know it would be impossible for both gaming and music i just want it to be little bit good when listening music and i have only one chance=(
  
  
 if you have any suggestions please share with me. It really bothers me because i don't have enough knowledge for it.
 thanks in advance=)

 my budget is around 80-100$
  
  
 i got suggestion for Gemini HSR-1000+SB-Z and Kingston HyperX Cloud II
 You have more knowledge than me about this subject so help me please! i will suggest you anime in return=)


----------



## Fegefeuer

A modded DT990 600 is damn good imotbh2k15omg


----------



## Sanctuary

Not sure if this would be considered off topic, since it's more of a general "surround sound" question that can be applied to both a speaker or headphone setup, but what movie scenes do you like to use as a demo for both separation as well as the overall quality of the frequencies?  I used to use the lobby scene in _The Matrix_ for a speaker setup, and then later started using it for virtualization devices.
  
 More recently though, I just can't stop listening to the lengthy confrontation between Bilbo and Smaug in _The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug_.  The clinking of coins, or when Smaug is doing a lot of movement is great for surround, but oh my god his voice.  It's literally the best voice effect I have ever heard in a movie (used to be Darth Vader).  While you can't get that "in your chest" feeling with a pair of headphones that you can a dedicated sub, that scene is utterly amazing with the Alpha Dogs.  So much so, that I think I'll probably just wait another year or two before seriously considering another pair.  They might not have the most "sub like" bass, but the low mid-bass on them is crazy good.

 Also, I found out why it seemed like the Sony headphones were producing so much more bass.  Technically they do output more bass, but it's not as drastic a difference as it first appeared.  For some reason, the LFE crossover frequency of the Essence STX was ON, when I never actually turned it on myself.  Doing that kills much of the bass.  It had been a while since I had actually setup with Alpha Dogs for movies (since I use the DT880s for general shows that are usually just dialogue heavy), but I thought they had more bass than what I was hearing.  Then I just assumed I was remembering wrong.


----------



## Rich887

Hey MLE,
  
 I received my TH600's last night and they are amazing headphones.. I am a little concerned as I believe I experienced Headphone Fatigue using them last night within 2hrs of DH movie watching using my mixamp and JDS O2..I don't recall ever experiencing this with my X1 or the K7XX  Is this something that can be tweaked with gear EQ or different amp.


----------



## Evshrug

akyroz said:


> hello Mad Lust Envy senpai notice me=) i need your help i decided to go for new build, my current headset is really really bad( for 4$=) ) and i want to change it. I don't know what to do. For satisfication(especially for sound) which idea is better headset or headphone+mic combination? mostly playing mmorpg and fps games. It would be awesome if i have a chance to get a good option for both music and gaming. i know it would be impossible for both gaming and music i just want it to be little bit good when listening music and i have only one chance=(
> 
> 
> if you have any suggestions please share with me. It really bothers me because i don't have enough knowledge for it.
> ...




AkyroZ,
Mad has been saying for years that you generally get a better sound for your budget if you get a headphone + mic. 
Mad has bought a few Deal Extreme lapel mics (listed in the guide), and over the years I've bought 6 lapel mics by Neweer on Amazon for less than $10 total, Stillhart has bought a few similarly priced HDE lapel mics too. I'd say any of those would be good options, and leave you plenty of money for good headphones.
In the $80-$100 USD range, I'm not fully aware of all the best gaming options, especially since I assume you're in Japan and have different pricing there. I also don't know your taste in audio, like if you favor bass or soundstagey. That said, I have a few options to add to your list. I have owned the Audio Technica AD700 in the past, I know that AT is Japan-Based and you might get better prices there, AT's open-backed headphones are known for having a very airy and light sound with massive soundstage size, so a good deal on an AD700x might be worth seeking out. Sennheiser's HD558 has hit $100 and less a few times in the USA, that's a good, balanced all-purpose headphone with no big faults. Creative Aurvana Live! is supposed to be very good, I have a Creative Aurvana Live 2 which has a lot of bass excitement and emphasis but has good soundstage and decent sound for the price and a closed headphone. Samson and Superlux headphones are also highly praised in your price range. Koss brand PortaPros and clip-on ear models (I have KSC75 "Pulse" clip-ons) are even less expensive (below your budget) but perform surprisingly great for their price, and are definitely worth looking into – especially if that means you can afford a good Soundcard or DSP to complete your system.
I believe the Gemini you mentioned are rebranded clones of the Kingston headset, I haven't heard either so I can't say how good they are relative to the others, but I often see them recommended.

Have I earned some anime recommendations? I recently watched all of Psycho Pass, Attack on Titan, Irregular at Magic High, and Last Exile, and then I'm in the middle of Gurren Lagan and Kill La Kill, but I'm always looking for new suggestions


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rich887 said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> I received my TH600's last night and they are amazing headphones.. I am a little concerned as I believe I experienced Headphone Fatigue using them last night within 2hrs of DH movie watching using my mixamp and JDS O2..I don't recall ever experiencing this with my X1 or the K7XX  Is this something that can be tweaked with gear EQ or different amp.




The TH600 has a fairly big peak at 5khz-khz that can be a piercing. I didn't find another area area of it's sound to be piercing or fatiguing. 5khz is a very common area of music/harmonics, so taming this should give good results. I don't EQ normally, but I could see it being beneficial for that spike.

Run Sinegen. All you touch is the power button and the left slider. You can then test lowly up and down the frequencies to see where the biggest peaks are at your preferred volume. EQ those spots down to whatever is no longer fatiguing.

As for EQ themselves, I don't know of any good one, since I don't use anything but Winamp, and it doesn't have many levels to EQ. The X7 has a 4k and 8k range, which is just under and over where I'd reduce it. That's too broad a range, since I would reduce 5k only, since around 7.5k has a noticeable dip. Reducing such a broad range would make 7.5k very muffled. That's why you need something that can target between 5-6khz only.

I'll test it out later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, I don't like SBX with the TH900. I prefer DH, because the X7 is way tight, and doesn't give the TH900 any more euphony, and makes the bass way too fast. The TH900 already has abnormally fast bass, and so the X7 is like making it too tight and not enveloping anough. DH doesn't have the problem.

I bet the X7 would be awesome for the D7000 though.


----------



## Rich887

Thanks MLE I'll check out your ideas ... I would hate it if these headphones were unusable because of this issue.


----------



## Stillhart

akyroz said:


> hello Mad Lust Envy senpai notice me=) i need your help i decided to go for new build, my current headset is really really bad( for 4$=) ) and i want to change it. I don't know what to do. For satisfication(especially for sound) which idea is better headset or headphone+mic combination? mostly playing mmorpg and fps games. It would be awesome if i have a chance to get a good option for both music and gaming. i know it would be impossible for both gaming and music i just want it to be little bit good when listening music and i have only one chance=(
> 
> 
> if you have any suggestions please share with me. It really bothers me because i don't have enough knowledge for it.
> ...


 
 I've heard good things about the Philips SHP-9500.  It's $60 on Massdrop right now and then you can get a V-moda Boompro mic to use with it.  I've never heard it, but it's been recommended by folks who have.


----------



## AkyroZ

evshrug said:


> AkyroZ,
> Mad has been saying for years that you generally get a better sound for your budget if you get a headphone + mic.
> Mad has bought a few Deal Extreme lapel mics (listed in the guide), and over the years I've bought 6 lapel mics by Neweer on Amazon for less than $10 total, Stillhart has bought a few similarly priced HDE lapel mics too. I'd say any of those would be good options, and leave you plenty of money for good headphones.
> In the $80-$100 USD range, I'm not fully aware of all the best gaming options, especially since I assume you're in Japan and have different pricing there. I also don't know your taste in audio, like if you favor bass or soundstagey. That said, I have a few options to add to your list. I have owned the Audio Technica AD700 in the past, I know that AT is Japan-Based and you might get better prices there, AT's open-backed headphones are known for having a very airy and light sound with massive soundstage size, so a good deal on an AD700x might be worth seeking out. Sennheiser's HD558 has hit $100 and less a few times in the USA, that's a good, balanced all-purpose headphone with no big faults. Creative Aurvana Live! is supposed to be very good, I have a Creative Aurvana Live 2 which has a lot of bass excitement and emphasis but has good soundstage and decent sound for the price and a closed headphone. Samson and Superlux headphones are also highly praised in your price range. Koss brand PortaPros and clip-on ear models (I have KSC75 "Pulse" clip-ons) are even less expensive (below your budget) but perform surprisingly great for their price, and are definitely worth looking into – especially if that means you can afford a good Soundcard or DSP to complete your system.
> ...


 
  
  
 thank you for your answer mate. i'm from turkey and i will probably use amazon or ebay for buying headphone. any recommendation would be great since really i don't have experience i always listen soundtracks(like two steps from hell, audiomachine) and i have never heard bass with any headphone/headset so i don't really know how it feels=( For that range budget what would "you" get? if you answer this question that would be enough for me=)
  
 and AD700x is 130$ i really can't give for just a headphone
  
 for anime recommendations; for now i can suggest you to watch Hellsing Ultimate OVAs(not anime series), Great Teacher Onizuka(if you want to laugh very hard=)) ) and my suggestion some people watch animes dubbed, don't do that, watch it subbed. Japanese language really completes animes. its really fun
  
 if you want more animes pm me with genres i would be happy to help you=)


----------



## AkyroZ

stillhart said:


> I've heard good things about the Philips SHP-9500.  It's $60 on Massdrop right now and then you can get a V-moda Boompro mic to use with it.  I've never heard it, but it's been recommended by folks who have.


 

  thank you very much i will take a look=)


----------



## burritoboy9984

stillhart said:


> I've heard good things about the Philips SHP-9500.  It's $60 on Massdrop right now and then you can get a V-moda Boompro mic to use with it.  I've never heard it, but it's been recommended by folks who have.




+1, I have a pair and enjoy them over my X1's for positioning. They aren't as immersive however. 

Erik


----------



## Evshrug

akyroz said:


> thank you for your answer mate. i'm from turkey and i will probably use amazon or ebay for buying headphone. any recommendation would be great since really i don't have experience i always listen soundtracks(like two steps from hell, audiomachine) and i have never heard bass with any headphone/headset so i don't really know how it feels=( For that range budget what would "you" get? if you answer this question that would be enough for me=)
> 
> and AD700x is 130$ i really can't give for just a headphone
> 
> ...




Thanks for the return suggestions, I'll look into them! 
And I'm surprised at myself, I posted the Phillips SHP-9500 from Massdrop on the deals thread... I was thinking (crazily) about getting that myself even though I don't need it (have AKG K612, which since AD700x costs as much for you there as it does here, I'd easily recommend the AKG at that price, amping requirements be damned). The discussions thread on Massdrop's Phillips sale has people from all over, so if you don't mind waiting a few weeks that is a very good price on those headphones, unless you can find a better price locally.


----------



## PacoTaco

After messing around with the X7...
  
 The DSP will only accept surround if it is at or below 96kbs. Idk why.
  
 The headphone amp can power my Vibros pretty well. That's pretty damn good.
  
 Speaking of which, got my Vibros and Blackwood two days ago. The Vibro has very very good cinematic bass that I haven't heard out of a planar since I owned the LCD 2.2f. In fact, it out does it, as it kind slowly decays in a way that I haven't ever experience with any planar. It does rolloff slightly in the subbass. For immersion though, these are pretty damn good. The lush warmth is awesome, the detail is there, and the over-all dark tone helps out with games that get a bit too bright.
  
 That said, I can't see these being used for competitive gaming, despite the positioning being above average. It's also super forgiving, so you can use it with most "not so well mastered" rap songs or classic rock. But for everything else, the Blackwoods far surpass it.


----------



## AkyroZ

evshrug said:


> Thanks for the return suggestions, I'll look into them!
> And I'm surprised at myself, I posted the Phillips SHP-9500 from Massdrop on the deals thread... I was thinking (crazily) about getting that myself even though I don't need it (have AKG K612, which since AD700x costs as much for you there as it does here, I'd easily recommend the AKG at that price, amping requirements be damned). The discussions thread on Massdrop's Phillips sale has people from all over, so if you don't mind waiting a few weeks that is a very good price on those headphones, unless you can find a better price locally.


 
  
 what do you mean with waiting a few weeks?


----------



## Evshrug

akyroz said:


> what do you mean with waiting a few weeks?




Massdrop shipping requires more time.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/philips-shp9500-headphones


----------



## Evshrug

pacotaco said:


> After messing around with the X7...
> 
> The DSP will only accept surround if it is at or below 96kbs. Idk why.



The Axx DSP chip is it's own DAC, limited to 96kbps. That's still far higher than CD, but direct mode uses the higher-spec DAC. I've been very happy with "just" the Axx and what it can do.


----------



## glow9

mad lust envy said:


> Problem with the 990 is that the treble range is so strong and ear piercing, lots of people can't listen to them for long periods. Very sizzly. That is about the only thing that is problematic on the 990, but since it's almost all located at 10khz, it's pretty easy to EQ-down. Personally, I'm not bothered too much by 10khz peaks. I have much more problems with headphones that have strong peaks between 4-9khz. Those are areas where lots more information is located, so when that is ear fatiguing, it can be quite a consistent problem.




Am I the only one who finds these headphones overrated? I have the pro 250 ohm version for over a year. I started getting crackling but fixed the issue. Honestly I don't know why people think these are all that great.


----------



## BigBadWulf

glow9 said:


> Am I the only one who finds these headphones overrated? I have the pro 250 ohm version for over a year. I started getting crackling but fixed the issue. Honestly I don't know why people think these are all that great.


 
  
 It is a matter of your own taste. I think they are great. I never had problems with that  sharp BD Sound. In my collection are the Q701, HD 598, MA900 and the 990 and for gaming I would recommand them. I never had that feeling, that spotting the enemy was better with the Q701. In every other aspect I liked the 990 more. The Sony are the most comfortable, but not as good as the 990 for gaming.
 I never use a surround simulation for Call of Duty, may be turning this of would help you.
 But one bad Thing I had, the  cable broke, so I modded them with two 3,5mm connectors, so I can use the Denon D600 cables. (while soldering I killed one speakerunit, just very short heating is allowed, I was quick, but not quick enough 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
 Add BD T-90 to them and they are fantastic in comfort.


----------



## Faceman

@AkyroZ
  
 You definitely want to buy your headphones and mic separately.  Outside of a few exceptions, you will almost always get much better value, and performance buying a headset + mic rather than an all-in-one.
  
 For headphones, I would look into the Phillips SHP-9500 on Massdrop if shipping isn't too bad to Turkey.  Otherwise I would look into the Superlux HD668Bs.  I have also heard that the Samson SR850s are excellent.  You can pair these with any reasonably priced microphone, even a pointed desktop mic for $5-$10 will get the job done.


----------



## AkyroZ

faceman said:


> @AkyroZ
> 
> You definitely want to buy your headphones and mic separately.  Outside of a few exceptions, you will almost always get much better value, and performance buying a headset + mic rather than an all-in-one.
> 
> For headphones, I would look into the Phillips SHP-9500 on Massdrop if shipping isn't too bad to Turkey.  Otherwise I would look into the Superlux HD668Bs.  I have also heard that the Samson SR850s are excellent.  You can pair these with any reasonably priced microphone, even a pointed desktop mic for $5-$10 will get the job done.


 

 thank you for your suggestion mate probably i will get Philips SHP-9500 =)


----------



## CannonCollector

glow9 said:


> Am I the only one who finds these headphones overrated? I have the pro 250 ohm version for over a year. I started getting crackling but fixed the issue. Honestly I don't know why people think these are all that great.


 
 Open headphones with a wide soundstage, clean bright sound and strong bass impact at around 150 bucks is overrated? Trust me these are all but overrated, at this price range it's hard to find something like this. Of course you'll need to realise that these are pushing headphones so you'll need a good setup with a powerfull amp to get the best ouf of them. Tube amps for example do a great combo with them... and one thing I noticed but this might just be me, I find that for console gaming these sound really incredible but wasn't much impreseed on the PC... probably cause I have a crappy soundcard but still on the console these are great and the surround sound is pretty immersive but on the PC the surround sound sounded weak for some reason


----------



## Sanctuary

cannoncollector said:


> Open headphones with a wide soundstage, clean bright sound and strong bass impact at around 150 bucks is overrated? Trust me these are all but overrated, at this price range it's hard to find something like this. Of course you'll need to realise that these are pushing headphones so you'll need a good setup with a powerfull amp to get the best ouf of them. Tube amps for example do a great combo with them... and one thing I noticed but this might just be me, I find that for console gaming these sound really incredible but wasn't much impreseed on the PC... probably cause I have a crappy soundcard but still on the console these are great and the surround sound is pretty immersive but on the PC the surround sound sounded weak for some reason


 
 This isn't a knock on consoles (since I just spent too much on new headphones specifically for them myself), but there's currently nothing as a comparable solution to this:
  
 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132010


----------



## Change is Good

Any of you been using the USB audio player on the PS4 while playing games?


----------



## CookiePrime

@ Mad Lust Envy
  
 I'm having a hard time deciding between Fidelio X2 vs SRH1540 for my next headphone. They both sound like decent set of cans judging from your favorable comments, and I would really appreciate it if you could give me some advice.
  
 How would you compare Fidelio X2 vs SRH1540 in terms of pure SQ? (Ignoring open vs closed) I would assume X2 to be better overall, but how close is the difference? SRH1540 does seem overpriced at $500, but I'm willing to pay more if SRH1540 = X2 + Isolation (no sound leakage).
  
 Also, I've read SRH1540 suffers from bass distortion at high volumes... Just how 'bad' is this phenomenon? Is this a deal-breaker?
  
 Thank you in advance!


----------



## Faceman

@CookiePrime
  
 I recently just bought the X1 because I got a great deal on it thanks to a generous member of this forum.  I am loving them a lot, and if the X2s are even better, they sound like a no-brainer to me.  However, they do leak sound because they are open back headphones, even at a medium volume, they are fairly audible off your head. 
  
 Is your goal to not disturb others around you which is why you want isolation?


----------



## CookiePrime

faceman said:


> @CookiePrime
> 
> I recently just bought the X1 because I got a great deal on it thanks to a generous member of this forum.  I am loving them a lot, and if the X2s are even better, they sound like a no-brainer to me.  However, they do leak sound because they are open back headphones, even at a medium volume, they are fairly audible off your head.
> 
> Is your goal to not disturb others around you which is why you want isolation?


 
 The other way round actually - I do not want my roomates to hear what track I'm listening to, I am a shy guy 
  
 X2 ticks all the boxes for me - except being an open can. I've owned Grado SR-80 before and it leaked sound like crazy. This time I want a closed can for this reason but X2 is just too good to pass at $300.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 1540 is more like the X1 in terms if tonality. The X2 is more balanced.

I dunno man, I like the X2 pretty much more than anybother open headphone I've owned, simply because it does all things incredibly well. The 1540 is still recessed in the mids, and the bass is a bit rough at loud volumes.

No headphone is perfect anyways. Hell the TH600 and 900 have that rough spot at 5khz. 

I suggest getting the 1540 due to it being closed. Its still technically more capable than the X2, just iffy down low with high volume. The X2 is iffy up top with high volume, so again, nothing is perfect.


----------



## CookiePrime

mad lust envy said:


> The 1540 is more like the X1 in terms if tonality. The X2 is more balanced.
> 
> I dunno man, I like the X2 pretty much more than anybother open headphone I've owned, simply because it does all things incredibly well. The 1540 is still recessed in the mids, and the bass is a bit rough at loud volumes.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the input MLE. 
  
 The bass distortion was bothering me but I've made up my mind now


----------



## CannonCollector

sanctuary said:


> This isn't a knock on consoles (since I just spent too much on new headphones specifically for them myself), but there's currently nothing as a comparable solution to this:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132010


 
 Of course an asus xonar is an even better solution, I personally haven't had experience with one of these but I'm sure these do a good combo with the dt990 aswell


----------



## DagsJT

First time poster here, but browsed on and off for a while.
  
 I bought a pair of Samson SR850's a few weeks ago and they're pretty nice. But I'm wondering if I should splash out a bit more and get some better headphones.

 Main use would be gaming on the Xbox One, with music on my PC and movies (connected to onboard sound) not far behind in usage. Music taste is pretty wide but I do like decent bass. I've also just bought an Astro Mixamp which should arrive next week so I should be able to drive headphones a bit more.

 Budget around £150 maybe? I could stretch a little more if the difference would be worth it. But being able to pick out individual sounds, good soundstage and bass on the PS4 would be ideal.

 I'm considering the AKG K702's which are £149 on Amazon. Or Fidelio X1's in very good condition for £139?


----------



## Faceman

@DagsJT
  
 The Samson SR850s are very similar to the Superlux 668Bs which I own.  I recently, just upgraded from the Superluxs to a used Fidelio X1 and I am very pleased.  I got it at a great used price, it is in excellent condition, and I got a very nice improvement all around, most prominently in the bass.
  
 The X1 seriously does everything well.  I can switch from genre to genre seamlessly without issue.  The only complaint if I had to pick one, is that the bass is kind of one-note-ish, with a big "ish".  The bass is definitely prominent, and satisfying for the songs, movies, and games that demand it.
  
 The X1 also sounds fantastic off of my on board sound, possibly even better than with my FiiO E10K, so no amping is required.  I will give the nod to the E10K with the bass boost though when listening to House and Rap.  I have an Asus Z97-AR motherboard that uses: Realtek ALC892 7.1-channel audio with Crystal _Sound_ 2.
  
 I don't have experience with the AKG 702s, so I can't speak to the quality of them, but based on what I have read, the AKG will not have the bass of the Fidelio.  It will have a better soundstage, but the X1 is no slouch, its very good.
  
 My vote goes for the X1 if you can get one in good condition used.  Also, buy a new cable for the X1, the included one is terribad.


----------



## DagsJT

faceman said:


> @DagsJT
> 
> The Samson SR850s are very similar to the Superlux 668Bs which I own.  I recently, just upgraded from the Superluxs to a used Fidelio X1 and I am very pleased.  I got it at a great used price, it is in excellent condition, and I got a very nice improvement all around, most prominently in the bass.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Ordered the X1's. Just constantly seeing great comments about them so fingers crossed I like them!


----------



## Sunrider6

Hey guys,
 I have a question.

 I'm thinking about buying a V-moda Boom-pro, and it may be a stupid question, but i haven't found an answer.
  
 It is correct that the volume control is for the sound, right ? Not for the microphone sound output ?
  
 I feel stupid to asking this, but a couple of youtube reviews made me think that way, and one kid said in an unboxing that it IS for the microphone, so now I'm confuse.
  
  
 Edit : i feel even more stupid... the review in the first post made it clear "inline volume". Sorry


----------



## Yethal

sunrider6 said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a question.
> 
> I'm thinking about buying a V-moda Boom-pro, and it may be a stupid question, but i haven't found an answer.
> ...


 
 It's probably the best mic ever made. Ease of use and convenience trumps the competition. Go and buy it ( If You have a pair of cans that support it)


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Any of you been using the USB audio player on the PS4 while playing games?


 
 Does it do FLACs?
 I finally went through the 60+ new pages of this thread and feel like a champ now. Good night 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Oh, and Creative - you done f'ed it up with no RCA/SPDIF passthrough... Why did I buy this crap again? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Anyway, I really like what the upscalled stereo does via the SPDIF to an external DAC, so... Does not rival the HP's out in accuracy, but I'll have to settle for it... For now. CREATIVE... clock's tickin'


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Does it do FLACs?


 
  
 I believe it does, as long as it is all inside a music folder and your usb drive is formatted to be compatible with the PS4. I've also been told by Zombie_X that it even reads some DACs, but have yet to try myself. Pretty neat that it does, though I doubt I'll ever use a DAC with it, because I have other sources for just listening to music. I've just been using the USB player, while gaming, to play music in the background at a lower volume where it won't affect my gameplay cues and chatting.


----------



## Yethal

Played some L4D2 yesterday (with a mod that replaces zombies with Teletubbies because let's misbeheave). The game correctly recognized the X7 as a 5.1 setup and sent multichannel signal to it. The positioning and soundstage were top notch. I could easily hear the direction the teletubbies were coming at me from. Locating the Witch (replaced with Osama bin Laden) was also extremely easy. Since L4d2 is a Source Engine game I believe setting X7 to work with any other Source game should be a breeze as well.


----------



## Hansotek

I hooked up my HD800 and Schiit Lyr to the Mixamp today. Good gravy... The God-mode was strong in this combo! No shortage on fun factor either. Nice bass + immersive 3D soundstage x infinity detail = perfection.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So doing some more comparing between the TH600 and 900. Going from the TH900 to the TH600 is like losing a little luster, shine, and a little emotion. The TH900 is that first, fresh cup of coffee in the morning. The TH600 has been sitting in the thermos a bit, by comparison.

Again, this is just a direct comparison between them, and not to the detriment of the TH600 which is a stellar pair of headphones. Just know you gain a bit of musicality with the TH900. The TH600 sounds a little 'flatter' as in, not as dynamic.

It's easier to pick up nowadays.

Still, don;t pass up the TH600 if you're limited to that price range.


----------



## Sanctuary

hansotek said:


> I hooked up my HD800 and Schiit Lyr to the Mixamp today. Good gravy... The God-mode was strong in this combo! No shortage on fun factor either. Nice bass + immersive 3D soundstage x infinity detail = perfection.


 
 I have the same amp, and had been wondering if it was good enough to power the HD800.  Are you noticing the 6khz spike so many complain about, or did you mod yours?  Around the end of the year, of nothing "better" arrives by then, I'll probably be considering the HD800 and the TH-900.  Although it would be nice to hear an actual comparison between the TH-900 and the ADs since MLE said nearly the same things about them in his review as what he's been saying lately about the TH-900.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Alpha Dog is more linear, richer in the mids, but a bit more rough in the treble.

The TH900s sub bass is considerably more satisfying. The Alpha Dog has more meat in the midbass than the TH900.

That's actually a very vaild comparison, as I feel they both do soundstage like no other closed headphone's I've heard (though the TH900 isolates a bit poorly, though much better than something like an X2 which just leaks horribly, obviously). I feel though the TH600's tonal balance is more like the AD, and a more valid comparison. The TH600 being the dynamic, v-shaped relative to the Alpha Dog's sound.

I don't wanna jump the gun since I haven't heard the AD in awhile (and only got a brief moment with them), but it isn't as musical as the TH900. There's something euphonic about the TH900 that the AD didn't have (which is why I personally still preferred the tonality of the Mad Dog 3.2 over the Alpja Dog, despite the Alpha Dog being better in ever other regard).

I think if the TH900's low end was reduced a few DB, there'd be a lot in common with the AD. Not technically (again, it's been too long to be certain), but in the strengths of both.

That does not mean I find the bass too heavy on the TH900. If you guys heard it, you'd understand that the graphs do not necessarily line up with how they actually sound. The graps indicate a whopping, massive bass section. But it doesn't show just how ridiculously tight the bass is, so in reality, it doesn't seem as bass heavy. Sometimes I wish it were a bit stronger, just to have more presence (like the D7000), but that's just personal taste. guess I'll always be chasing the D7000's ghost, even if it is inferior.

I wouldn't wanna give up the TH900, but I probably would for the D7K, just due to personal preference in a more meaty, longer decaying sub bass. There is literally noting I remember the D7K being better than the TH900 aside from that subjective bass preference. In a perfect world, I'd have both. The TH900 is a considerably better all rounder, while the D7000 would be my absolute go to for action movies, action games, and my bass reliant music.


----------



## Hansotek

sanctuary said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I hooked up my HD800 and Schiit Lyr to the Mixamp today. Good gravy... The God-mode was strong in this combo! No shortage on fun factor either. Nice bass + immersive 3D soundstage x infinity detail = perfection.
> ...



The Lyr definitely sounds great with the HD800. I also have a Burson HA-160, which sounds a even better with them. (Which is now discontinued. I happened to find a used HA-160 recently for $350 on ebay. If you ever see a similar deal, I'd strongly advise you to take it!!)

The treble doesn't really bother me too much unless the recording is hot. Regarding gaming, you really don't get it too bad through the Mixamp and Lyr combo. Every once in a while something it will pop in and say "hi"... But I don't think it's too bad.

How the Lyr makes the HD800 perform depends quite a bit on your tubes. I have the Telefunken E88cc tubes in there. If you're familiar with the Lyr tube rollers thread, Bob uses the HD800 and he swears by the '74 Voskod SWGP Reflektors. I haven't tried those tubes, much less gamed with them, but they're supposed to be the soundstage grand champion, so I'd surmise the God-mode factor would run REAL high in that setup.

I'd love to hear the TH-900 too... Someday.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Played some L4D2 yesterday (with a mod that replaces zombies with Teletubbies because let's misbeheave).



Lol, the modding community is pretty crazy!
Moar screenshots?




hansotek said:


> I hooked up my HD800 and Schiit Lyr to the Mixamp today. Good gravy... The God-mode was strong in this combo! No shortage on fun factor either. Nice bass + immersive 3D soundstage x infinity detail = perfection.



The Mixamp, on it's own, doesn't understand height positional cues, so not 3D, but I understand what you mean because sounds come from a particular angle and seem to have a real "body" and shape to them. Fegefeur is probably right there with you in the HD800's gaming prowess, so long as it doesn't feel like overkill.




mad lust envy said:


> ...
> 
> I wouldn't wanna give up the TH900, but I probably would for the D7K, just due to personal preference in a more meaty, longer decaying sub bass. There is literally noting I remember the D7K being better than the TH900 aside from that subjective bass preference. In a perfect world, I'd have both. The TH900 is a considerably better all rounder, while the D7000 would be my absolute go to for action movies, action games, and my bass reliant music.



Soooooo... What if the D7000's bass wasn't more meaty and as magic as you remember? 0.0

And I hear you about the X7. As much as it would be cool to have a polished experience right out of the gate (unlike many games these days, with day-1 patches), I hope Creative keeps investing in software time to keep developing their flagship, statement device. I do have some hope as both the Recon3D USB and Omni received patches and software updates. And also with that said, I appreciate the quality gains and honestly can't think of another released device if rather use/go back to. I still have the Omni and Bifrost, I just haven't bothered hooking that back up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> The Alpha Dog is more linear, richer in the mids, but a bit more rough in the treble.
> 
> The TH900s sub bass is considerably more satisfying. The Alpha Dog has more meat in the midbass than the TH900.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks. I'm honestly not sure what to take away from this though when considering I'd essentially be paying $999 for a _slight_ alteration.  Sub bass makes action movies much more immersive, but midbass is way better for music (IMO).  How is the TH-900 sound stage; do they sound as "open" as the ADs?  If not, then I'd probably not even consider them and would look more towards the HD800 (although if the 6khz spike is really that bad, maybe not.  I couldn't stand the Ultrasone 900s that did something similar).  Plus, having "heard" the horrid mids of the Ultrasones, I'll never go back to a V shaped sound again if I can help it.  Good mids are very important for vocals or dialogue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can read all the love the people have for the TH900's soundstage, which is absolutely massive, unlike what the closed back constraints would lead people to believe. It reachs far out. With terrific depth. Soundstage is something people wont have an issue with the Th900.

The TH900 also has a pretty big spike between 5-6khz, though due to the lower end, is masked quite well.

Oh yes, the TH900 is one of the best low tl moderate volume headphones, if not the best I've heard. All its dynamics are still there. I usually don't love headphones at low volumes, but the TH900 is engaging at any volume.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> You can read all the love the people have for the TH900's soundstage, which is absolutely massive, unlike what the closed back constraints would lead people to believe. It reachs far out. With terrific depth. Soundstage is something people wont have an issue with the Th900.


 
 Lol, but the very same thing was said about the ADs!  All things being equal, it just seems like it's a more V shaped sound with better sub bass vs the linear or "true neutral" sound of the ADs.  I love me some sub bass that's not boomy, but not at the cost of the mids.
  
 I also think that I am putting much more emphasis on movies and then music, while your reviews are primarily focused on how they sound with games (in which the V shape wouldn't bother me in the slightest).  When I spend this much on headphone equipment though, I'm not really looking at them as specialists, but rather all rounders.  I don't need super accurate headphones for competitive reasons, but I do love a large sound stage with good positional cues for immersive reasons for both movies and games.  I would be perfectly content with the headphones I now have though if this was only a matter of gaming for me.
  
 I mean hell, I used what was probably one of the most uncomfortable headphones ever (as well as on board sound), with super heavy EQ (I haven't used EQ for five years) with gaming for about seven years before finally taking the audio more seriously.


----------



## BigBadWulf

sanctuary said:


> Thanks. I'm honestly not sure what to take away from this though when considering I'd essentially be paying $999 for a _slight_ alteration.  Sub bass makes action movies much more immersive, but midbass is way better for music (IMO).  How is the TH-900 sound stage; do they sound as "open" as the ADs?  If not, then I'd probably not even consider them and would look more towards the HD800 (although if the 6khz spike is really that bad, maybe not.  I couldn't stand the Ultrasone 900s that did something similar).  Plus, having "heard" the horrid mids of the Ultrasones, I'll never go back to a V shaped sound again if I can help it.  Good mids are very important for vocals or dialogue.


 
 Yesterday I started to play with the HD800, later I switched to the Beyerdynamic DT 990. Well, I will start to make these changes everytime I play, because it really shows the difference. One Point was, that I can`t find a Beyerpeak. The 800 is more aggressive. I get used to the sharpness of the HD800 and that still can be extreme, when you hear very loud music. When you game it is an advantage and absolutely not annoying (except damaging volumes).
 If you hear a lot of *loud music*, the HD800 can be exhausting, but when you *game* and especially competitive games, it will be the maximum you can get.
 I can imagine, that the TH900 Bass will make a game to a great movie, but the 800 will be better in competitive gaming.
 Switching to the DT 990 felt like hearing the 800 through a pillow, but the midbass increased a lot and I still could do my job the same way, but with less comfort and much less quality.
  
 Tested with COD BO2 HC SnD with IFI IDSD connected with USB 3.0 without any surround simulation on.
 Btw. the HD800 needed less power to reach the same volumes, than the 990 Pro 250 ohms.
  
 Well, the next test will be vs. the Sony MDR MA900 (with T-90 pads). I love that lightweight.


----------



## paulguru

Excuse me guys ............. between specific headphones Audio Technica ADx00 or AKG K7xx famous for soundstage and the other open air audiophile models like Sennheiser HD6xx or Fidelio X series  there is a big noticeable difference during FPS games to perceive footsteps position ?


----------



## Sanctuary

bigbadwulf said:


> Yesterday I started to play with the HD800, later I switched to the Beyerdynamic DT 990. Well, I will start to make these changes everytime I play, because it really shows the difference. One Point was, that I can`t find a Beyerpeak. The 800 is more aggressive. I get used to the sharpness of the HD800 and that still can be extreme, when you hear very loud music. When you game it is an advantage and absolutely not annoying (except damaging volumes).
> If you hear a lot of *loud music*, the HD800 can be exhausting, but when you *game* and especially competitive games, it will be the maximum you can get.
> I can imagine, that the TH900 Bass will make a game to a great movie, but the 800 will be better in competitive gaming.
> Switching to the DT 990 felt like hearing the 800 through a pillow, but the midbass increased a lot and I still could do my job the same way, but with less comfort and much less quality.
> ...


 

 Thanks, I guess, but it was the Fostex TH-900, not Beyer 990s that I mentioned.  I own the Beyer 880s and am fine with those for "put them on and forget" gaming headphones.  Similarly with music and dialogue heavy shows, but they just don't compete with the Alpha Dogs in any area aside comfort.

 There's also what looks like a pretty easy and pretty much passive mod you can do to the HD800s (no real alterations to the actual headphones) that is supposed to tame the metallic sheen or high spikes they seem to be known for.
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/diy-modification-sennheiser-hd-800-anaxilus-mod-page-2


----------



## BigBadWulf

Yes, I know, that you mean the TH900. I just wanted to tell you something about the HD800 and their sharp side. I can not compare them to the TH900, so I chose the 990 with the "Beyerpeak" and the advantage and disadvantage of the HD 800 sharpness.
  
 Fegefeuer can give you the best advice for you, but he needs to know, if you want to game or hear music, watch movies etc.


----------



## BigBadWulf

paulguru said:


> Excuse me guys ............. between specific headphones Audio Technica ADx00 or AKG K7xx famous for soundstage and the other open air audiophile models like Sennheiser HD6xx or Fidelio X series  there is a big noticeable difference during FPS games to perceive footsteps position ?


 
 This is difficult to say.
 With the HD800 I had the effect, that it is a crystal clear sound, than with the Q701 and so on, but I don`t feel, that I could hear them earlier with them.
  
 At this point I have to tell you about a test in the past, that a clanmember with a "cheap Turtlebeach PX 21(?!? no USB) heard footsteps earlier than me with my ASUS Phoebus and all my headphones I had (598, 990, 900 and Q701), so it seems to be something with the soundcard, that the cheap onboard device gave him an advantage. Tested in Black Ops 2 at Raid map without awarness(? Wachsamkeit in german, I usually don`t use it). That is still annoying. I could not hear it earlier, even when I put the volume to a damaging level, the sound was not there and the headphones could not show, what is not there.
 And he still sometimes say, there, you hear it and I "What no!?!" .


----------



## Fegefeuer

ADs vs TH-900? Get out


----------



## Sanctuary

fegefeuer said:


> ADs vs TH-900? Get out


 

 I can't tell if you're just trying to be snarky, but if you read his review about the ADs, it read very similar to what he has been saying about the TH-900s.  He even tried to clarify the differences, and they do not look to be drastically better or worse than each other on paper.  One does some things better than the other and vice versa.

 This is especially important when you factor in the $999 cost.


----------



## paulguru

bigbadwulf said:


> This is difficult to say.
> With the HD800 I had the effect, that it is a crystal clear sound, than with the Q701 and so on, but I don`t feel, that I could hear them earlier with them.
> 
> At this point I have to tell you about a test in the past, that a clanmember with a "cheap Turtlebeach PX 21(?!? no USB) heard footsteps earlier than me with my ASUS Phoebus and all my headphones I had (598, 990, 900 and Q701), so it seems to be something with the soundcard, that the cheap onboard device gave him an advantage. Tested in Black Ops 2 at Raid map without awarness(? Wachsamkeit in german, I usually don`t use it). That is still annoying. I could not hear it earlier, even when I put the volume to a damaging level, the sound was not there and the headphones could not show, what is not there.
> And he still sometimes say, there, you hear it and I "What no!?!" .


 
 So the positionality depends much more to sound card and software than headphone ?


----------



## BigBadWulf

Usually I would say, that a better soundcard and better headphones will bring you an advantage, but in this case it isn`t. I can`t tell you why. I tried volume leveler and so on, but the Sound was not there while he could hear it. (He doesn`t cheat or tweaked anything.) But I can say, that I can hear with my ZXR and any midclass headphones usually better than guys with gaming Headphones and I usually don`t use the awarness perk. I shot Turtlebeach Sierras at ebay for 30€ because of a broken wire, I repaired it, but the Headphone part was terrible compared to the mid-fis.


----------



## Yethal

paulguru said:


> bigbadwulf said:
> 
> 
> > This is difficult to say.
> ...


 
 Of course it does. Plugging even the most expensive headphones into the regular stereo will give You worse results than plugging cheap headset into an amazing soundcard. Virtual surround can make bad headphones sound mediocre and mediocre headphones sound good.


----------



## Hansotek

bigbadwulf said:


> Yesterday I started to play with the HD800, later I switched to the Beyerdynamic DT 990. Well, I will start to make these changes everytime I play, because it really shows the difference. One Point was, that I can`t find a Beyerpeak. The 800 is more aggressive. I get used to the sharpness of the HD800 and that still can be extreme, when you hear very loud music. When you game it is an advantage and absolutely not annoying (except damaging volumes).
> If you hear a lot of *loud music*, the HD800 can be exhausting, but when you *game* and especially competitive games, it will be the maximum you can get.
> I can imagine, that the TH900 Bass will make a game to a great movie, but the 800 will be better in competitive gaming.
> Switching to the DT 990 felt like hearing the 800 through a pillow, but the midbass increased a lot and I still could do my job the same way, but with less comfort and much less quality.
> ...




I would love a true "flagship" model with essentially the same sound sig as the DT990... Just improved in every way.


----------



## DagsJT

Any recommendations on a cheap amp for the Fidelio X1's? I've got the X1's and a Mixamp (for Xbox One gaming) coming next week but I think I might need an amp for music/movies on my PC. Not looking to spend too much, maybe £50?


----------



## Sunrider6

yethal said:


> It's probably the best mic ever made. Ease of use and convenience trumps the competition. Go and buy it ( If You have a pair of cans that support it)


 
 Thank you for your response.
 I just bought it, now I'm waiting for delivery. 
 Fidelio X2 + Boom pro, seem to be a nice combo !
 I wanted a volume controller so bad, i hope it's good.
  
 For anyone who want it, it's $22.9 on ebay, from a 99.9% seller.
 Come from China, so it may take while to come here in Europe.


----------



## Hansotek

dagsjt said:


> Any recommendations on a cheap amp for the Fidelio X1's? I've got the X1's and a Mixamp (for Xbox One gaming) coming next week but I think I might need an amp for music/movies on my PC. Not looking to spend too much, maybe £50?



It stretches your budget a little, but the Objective 2 is really killer with the Fidelio X1.


----------



## RRod

dagsjt said:


> Any recommendations on a cheap amp for the Fidelio X1's? I've got the X1's and a Mixamp (for Xbox One gaming) coming next week but I think I might need an amp for music/movies on my PC. Not looking to spend too much, maybe £50?


 
  
 You can try it without, first. The X1 is a pretty easy can to drive, so it's worth seeing if you like the sound from your on-board stuff first.


----------



## Sunrider6

For what it's worth, i thought that my X2 sounded better with my clip+ than my on-board (i did say night and day differences...), after some test i figured that it was my imagination.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I do have some little EMI interferences from my graphic card (or PSU, i don't know), when used at it's "near-maximum", especially when i use MadVR. (like 90%+ GPU use), but if i don't use my GPU, or don't use it that much (like League of legends, CSGO, ect), i don't have any EMI sound (or at least not noticeable at all) on mine.
  
 And it's not the audio chipset, from front audio jack i don't have theses EMI interferences, maybe my cable isn't that great (it's a kabeldirekt that somebody recommended, don't remember the thread). I don't know.
 (If somebody have a solution, don't hesitate 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




)
  
 Some motherboard also come with great tools (mine come with a Sound Blaster X-Fi MB 3 app) that can do some good stuff for music/movie/gaming.
 (I love this this "game" preset so much that i also listen to music with it and movie now).
  
 TL;DR : Wanted to buy a dac, and finally, i decided it may not worth it.
 I suggest you to test with your on-board audio first, and why not, with other source you have, and make a decision.


----------



## Faceman

dagsjt said:


> Any recommendations on a cheap amp for the Fidelio X1's? I've got the X1's and a Mixamp (for Xbox One gaming) coming next week but I think I might need an amp for music/movies on my PC. Not looking to spend too much, maybe £50?


 

 I just bought an X1 earlier this week, and I already own a FiiO E10K which is pretty much right in your budget, and is a highly recommended DAC/AMP.  Anyways, the X1s sound just fine coming from my on-board(Asus Z97-AR Mobo).  The E10K does get the nod when you flip the Gain and Bass Boost switch, but its not worth spending 50 quid for.  You will be fine with on board, if you are unhappy, or feel like you need more, stretch your budget and get something better than the E10K because its not a noticeable enough difference, at least in my opinion.  Another potential option in your price range is the SMSL SD793-II DAC/AMP.
  
 Also, the included stock cable for the X1 is atrocious.  I didn't even make it through a full song because it was that bad. I felt like the headphones weren't coming to life.  The sound was hollow, and I had to turn the volume up pretty high to even get a halfway decent experience.  I switched to a Mediabridge cable and voila!  With the new cable, the headphones sounded infinitely better, and were also not requiring me to turn the dial up so high.  The new cable did more than switching from on board to DAC/AMP.
  
 TL;DR:
 If you aren't happy with your X1s out of the box, 1st switch the cable.  If that doesn't satisfy you, then look into a higher end headphone amplifier.


----------



## Hansotek

+1 on swapping out the stock Fidelio X1 cable. That thing is awful. Even a $10 Monoprice cable provides a massive improvement. Address this before worrying about an amp.


----------



## Rich887

mad lust envy said:


> You can read all the love the people have for the TH900's soundstage, which is absolutely massive, unlike what the closed back constraints would lead people to believe. It reachs far out. With terrific depth. Soundstage is something people wont have an issue with the Th900.
> 
> The TH900 also has a pretty big spike between 5-6khz, though due to the lower end, is masked quite well.
> 
> Oh yes, the TH900 is one of the best low tl moderate volume headphones, if not the best I've heard. All its dynamics are still there. I usually don't love headphones at low volumes, but the TH900 is engaging at any volume.







Hey MLE ,
I'm really starting to get used to these TH-600's with that said the fatigue I was experiencing has pretty much gone away. My only question is dealing with the Dolby Headphone soundstage. I like the TH600 in games however in movies it seems to me the AKG K7XX has a better presentation of soundstage. Do you feel / believe the upgrade to the TH-900 would be significant enough and or would match or beat say the AKG Annie's or 712 since they pretty similar to my K7XX in your experience ? I realize I might be just nick picking details just want the best of both worlds.


----------



## Mach3

How do you guy connect the Mixamp to a Lyr?
 I want to do the same but with a phonitor instead. Also does that mean you'll lose microphone ability in this sort of setup.


----------



## Hansotek

mach3 said:


> How do you guy connect the Mixamp to a Lyr?
> I want to do the same but with a phonitor instead. Also does that mean you'll lose microphone ability in this sort of setup.



Through the Mixamp's headphone out. Not the quietest thing in the world, but as long as the mixamp volume is below the halfway point, it's not too bad.


----------



## CookiePrime

I had the chance to listen to SRH1540 and Fidelio X2 in a retail store and here is my initial impression:

SRH1540

Comfort - 9.5/10 VERY comfortable. After a while, I even forgot that I had these headphones sitting on my head. Need I say more?

SQ - 7/10 I was rather dissappointed with these cans. Maybe my expectation was too high. Bass was ok, the mids were there and I liked the details but all my songs on my mp3 sounded... too normal. Ordinary. Make no mistake, these cans sound good but they definitely did not feel like $500 cans to me. At first I thought it must be my MP3 so I connected it to Fiio E12. Adding an amp did improve perceptive SQ but I could not shake this empty feeling that 'something was missing' with these cans. 

Isolation/Sound Leak - 7/10 I've heard that these don't isolate very well, but they seemed good enough for me.

Fidelio X2

Comfort - 7.5/10 I don't like the clamping pressure from these cans. Materials and construction quality is good, but I don't think I can wear these cans all day.

SQ - 9.5/10 I was blown away the moment I heard these cans. I am just an average guy with average hearing but I was shocked by the difference between SRH1540 and X2. Sub-bass was beautifully textured, decent bass, soundstage and wonderful clarity. Comparing them side by side, SRH1540 sounded 'veiled' in comparison. I know that SRH1540 is supposed to have stronger bass response, but strangely X2 had more bass to my ears. Maybe I am not too familiar with Frequency Response thing. I am just baffled because X2 is supposed to be more neutral... yet seemed to have more flavor than SRH1540. 

Isolation/Sound Leak - 0/10 Terrible. Just terrible.

I REALLY wanted to like SRH1540, as I need closed cans for privacy. But the idea of paying more for less... is just bugging me. I almost convinced myself to buy X2 today... But I know too well that the sound leak from X2 will forever haunt me while listening to music... in a room with 5 roomates.


----------



## Stillhart

rich887 said:


> Hey MLE ,
> I'm really starting to get used to these TH-600's with that said the fatigue I was experiencing has pretty much gone away. My only question is dealing with the Dolby Headphone soundstage. I like the TH600 in games however in movies it seems to me the AKG K7XX has a better presentation of soundstage. Do you feel / believe the upgrade to the TH-900 would be significant enough and or would match or beat say the AKG Annie's or 712 since they pretty similar to my K7XX in your experience ? I realize I might be just nick picking details just want the best of both worlds.


 
  
 You're comparing a closed headphone to an open one, of course the open one is going to sound more spacious.  The TH600 is pretty open-sounding for a closed can, but the AKG K7-- series is one of the most spacious-sounding headphones you can buy.  It's apples and oranges, really.  The TH900 won't change that.
  
 I'm not sure what you're asking re Annies and K712, but you should know that the K7XX is just a rebranded Annie.


----------



## Stillhart

dagsjt said:


> Any recommendations on a cheap amp for the Fidelio X1's? I've got the X1's and a Mixamp (for Xbox One gaming) coming next week but I think I might need an amp for music/movies on my PC. Not looking to spend too much, maybe £50?


 
  
 Any of the amps in the amp section of the guide will be fine.  A cheap used Fiio is probably your best bet.  
  
 The X1 does sound better amped, but it's not bad unamped.  It's important to understand the distinction between headphones that NEED and amp vs ones that BENEFIT from an amp.  Ones like the X1 that benefit from an amp sound *good *unamped but sound *better *with an amp.  Ones that need an amp sound* just okay* without and amp and *much better* with an amp.


----------



## Mach3

hansotek said:


> Through the Mixamp's headphone out. Not the quietest thing in the world, but as long as the mixamp volume is below the halfway point, it's not too bad.


 
  
 Surprised Creative or Asus don't already offer a decent DAC that output Dolby Headphone to a decent amp.


----------



## VictorGG

mach3 said:


> Surprised Creative or Asus don't already offer a decent DAC that output Dolby Headphone to a decent amp.


 
 Thats what I was looking for... a sound card to be used as DAC (no amplification, but with Dolby HP encoded) and connect to headphone amp... there is really no option here?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They do, but it only works with a PC as a source (meaning no consoles).


----------



## conquerator2

Which sucks donkey balls.
But I guess there's still hope, as per Creative's response;

'Dear sir,

Thank you for your valuable feedback.

We noted your suggestion. We hope can update it for an improvement in a future!
Regards,

Creative Worldwide Customer Response'

I'll be prayin'


----------



## Rich887

stillhart said:


> You're comparing a closed headphone to an open one, of course the open one is going to sound more spacious.  The TH600 is pretty open-sounding for a closed can, but the AKG K7-- series is one of the most spacious-sounding headphones you can buy.  It's apples and oranges, really.  The TH900 won't change that.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're asking re Annies and K712, but you should know that the K7XX is just a rebranded Annie.


 
 Thanks Stillhart... I hate to admit this but I actually was expecting the same sound field immersion. This would be my first set of closed headphones in years. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Well now that
 that's clear  uh hmm  These TH-600's are Awesome  !!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even so, the TH900 has a very expansive soundstage, that can fool you.


----------



## Rich887

Hey MLE ... just because its eating me are you saying the TH900 do have a larger soundstage closer to the Annies Etc ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The sense of openness in an open-back headphones is something closed headphones will not be able to live up to. However, once you understand the limitations of a closed headphone's sense of openness, you'll understand when people say 'large soundstage for a closed heaphone'. Open headphones benefit from lack of seal, because external ambience adds an extra layer to a soundstage that closed headphones just can't do. So while a headphone may end it's soundstage at a certain point, the extra air and ambience will fool you into thinking the soundstage is continuing.

The TH900 has a very large soundatage that reaches far out, but you're still limited to the constraints of a closed headphone and it's lack of external ambience.

To put things into perspective, the Alpha Dog is a well sealing, closed headphone that has a very large, open-esque sound, but people sill still feel it's not as large an open can, because of the lack of external influence. This is why I stressed that it sounded like an open headphone in a very quiet room. The TH900 has a similar type of soundstage, but due to some warmth , it won't be as crisp and 'airy' as the Alpha Dog.

To be frank, the AKGs have a particularly wide soundstage, sort of egg shaped. The Annie is large soundstage, but due to it's extra warmth, it will still pale in subjective impressions on it's soundstage compared to a brighter, less warm headphone like it's non-Annie siblings.

If you want a very large soundstage, not much is gonna match the TH900 and Alpha Dog in terms of closed headphones. Not gonna get much better than that..I'm sure the Annie is still gonna sound larger and more open, because it is by design.

There have been plenty of out of head experiences with both the TH600 and TH900 while I was gaming. There was even a few occasions where I thought I lacked a seal on the ear pads, because they didn't sound limited and typical like closed headphones.


----------



## Rich887

Spoke to my new friend Brian at Razordog.... TH900 on its way LOL


----------



## AxelCloris

Excellent choice in vendor. Brian is always a class act; I love seeing him get business.


----------



## VictorGG

mad lust envy said:


> They do, but it only works with a PC as a source (meaning no consoles).


 
  
 What options do we have with a PC? Or to run it, I would need to use headphone out -> amp in (2x amp in line) ? Is it a problem, or would change the sound?


victorgg said:


> Thats what I was looking for... a sound card to be used as DAC (no amplification, but with Dolby HP encoded) and connect to headphone amp... there is really no option here?


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> They do, but it only works with a PC as a source (meaning no consoles).


----------



## Evshrug

Coupon code SPRING40 will take off $40 from a Creative X7, if you buy direct.

Hey Mad, just curious, did Philips improve the stock cable for the X2 over the X1?


----------



## Sunrider6

I didn't have the original one when i bought mine, but from reviews, they did improve the stock cable.
 Still, some users reported unbalance with this new X2 cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, the new cable runs at .6 ohms for me, and it has no issues. I do hear a fair bit of complaints about other people's cables though, so i suggest you having an alternative just in case.

Victor, the Asus Xonar U3 is a cheap external soundcard with the ability to send dolby headphone DIGITALLY to your own dac (it needs an optical input, like the Fiio E17), and then your own dac to your own amp. The U3 isnt great if youbuse it alone, but as a digital source of Dolby Headphone, it's as good as anything else, as you're not limited by its own technicalities.

Apparently there are alternatives with other virtual surround, but I dont know which.


----------



## CapitaFK

Anyone with the BoomPros have a problem with it spinning out of position? I'm waiting for mine along with my X2, and I'm curious. Since it's a regular 3.5mm plug, there doesn't seem to be anything keeping it from spinning all over the place.


----------



## AxelCloris

capitafk said:


> Anyone with the BoomPros have a problem with it spinning out of position? I'm waiting for mine along with my X2, and I'm curious. Since it's a regular 3.5mm plug, there doesn't seem to be anything keeping it from spinning all over the place.


 
  
 I've never had an issue with the boom mic turning away from where I place it. It's held in place by pressure and friction inside the jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how I forgot to mention this, but the TH600 and TH900 would be likable for those who love headphones like the HE-4. V-shaped with class.


----------



## CapitaFK

axelcloris said:


> I've never had an issue with the boom mic turning away from where I place it. It's held in place by pressure and friction inside the jack.


 
 Sweet, thanks. I was kinda worried the boom would be flying all over the place while I moved my head around (head tracker for Elite: Dangerous). Good to know it won't be an issue.


----------



## catspaw

Dear Envy,
 I hope you can someday add to this guide both the HD700 and HD800 by sennheiser. Im not sure about this, but they seem to be rather good candidates for this guide.
 Kind Regards,
 A cat.


----------



## VictorGG

Thank you very much for the heads up! Are you sure that is possible to use the optical WITH dolby headphones ON?

Another strange thing... does it get the optical line from 3,5mm connector? It must be a special connector right?

Anyway, thanks, if you find out another option, please let me know!




mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, the new cable runs at .6 ohms for me, and it has no issues. I do hear a fair bit of complaints about other people's cables though, so i suggest you having an alternative just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, the software for the U3 has a setting where the optical will send out either straight Dolby Digital, or already fully processed to Dolby Headphone, digitally. I used it quite a bit for PC gaming.

And all you need is a 3.5mm optical cable adapter. Pretty sure it comes with one, but don't quote me on that. I lost my U3 a while back.


----------



## Change is Good

Trying to decide which headphones I want to use for Bloodborne, later today...


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone get a chance to try out bloodbourne yet? How is the sound?


----------



## Mach3

I wonder if anyone has any experience with the U7 over the U3?
 If it has optical in and inject all the dolby headphone goodness with RCA output that would be out of this world awesome.


----------



## Change is Good

Bloodborne is definitely like the souls games. Basically, get ready to DIE a lot in this game...

Will be streaming on my Twitch at 9:30pm ET.


----------



## malla1ml

My first impressions with the sound in Bloodborne were great, however I didn't really get a chance to enjoy the sound as I was quickly dead


----------



## Mach3

I've just checked on the U5 and U7 Asus Xonar. None of these offer dolby headphone. Only the U3


----------



## rudyae86

mach3 said:


>


 

 If I recall reading something a while back about the U5 and U7 is that their dolby headphone is named something else now. And honestly I dont remember what its called.
  
 Not sure why they changed it from Dolby headphone or if its a different headphone setting but its supposed to work like dolby headphone.


----------



## Sam21

Dolby home theatre v4 on the U7 has DH....


----------



## Sam21

different name but the algorithms are the same, [someone actually contacted Asus about it]


----------



## Mach3

sam21 said:


> Dolby home theatre v4 on the U7 has DH....


 
 What's the difference between Dolby home theatre v4 and Dolby Headphone?


----------



## rudyae86

sam21 said:


> Dolby home theatre v4 on the U7 has DH....


 
  


sam21 said:


> different name but the algorithms are the same, [someone actually contacted Asus about it]


 
 Yeah that lol
  
 Good Job on contacting them


----------



## Mach3

sam21 said:


> different name but the algorithms are the same, [someone actually contacted Asus about it]


 
 That makes a lot of sense. I searched Dolby website for dolby headphones and no results came up.


----------



## Ppxfern

I am looking for in-ear headphone around $100-200 for both gaming and music. Any suggestion.


----------



## Mach3

ppxfern said:


> I am looking for in-ear headphone around $100-200 for both gaming and music. Any suggestion.


 
 Have you tried Vsonic GR-07 MKII or the GR-07 Bass Edition?


----------



## Ppxfern

mach3 said:


> Have you tried Vsonic GR-07 MKII or the GR-07 Bass Edition?


Nah, I am completely new in gaming headphone department. But I fall after I heard with hd598. Then I start researching. But as I travel a lot, In ear will be best for me. How their sound quality compare say to hd598?


----------



## Mach3

ppxfern said:


> Nah, I am completely new in gaming headphone department. But I fall after I heard with hd598. Then I start researching. But as I travel a lot, In ear will be best for me. How their sound quality compare say to hd598?


 
  
 Never heard the HD598 to tell you the truth. However, I do own the HD600, HD650, HD700 & HD800
 The Vsonic GR-07 MKII is somewhere between the HD600 and the HD650 with a smaller soundstage and slightly less microdetail.


----------



## Ppxfern

mach3 said:


> Never heard the HD598 to tell you the truth. However, I do own the HD600, HD650, HD700 & HD800
> The Vsonic GR-07 MKII is somewhere between the HD600 and the HD650 with a smaller soundstage and slightly less microdetail.


GR-07 seems like a great choice. But now I am confused because there seems to be different versions with different price tags. 

1) http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00ATWLG8Y?psc=1

2) http://www.amazon.com/VSONIC-gr07-bass-GR07-Edition/dp/B00KM4N83K%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAJ7VMODKUTIUWFY2Q%26tag%3Dheadfiorg-pro-mcb-lo-t-m-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00KM4N83K

3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MELYOIW/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1427264848&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=gr07&dpPl=1&dpID=41KLx-lnZWL&ref=plSrch

4) http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IZBPR4K/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1427264848&sr=8-3&keywords=gr07&dpPl=1&dpID=31fcZVHhneL&ref=plSrch&pi=AC_SX200_QL40


----------



## cmquickfire

When you tried the sennnheiser pc 360 was it open or closed ?


----------



## Mach3

ppxfern said:


> GR-07 seems like a great choice. But now I am confused because there seems to be different versions with different price tags.




You'll want either the GR-07 MKII or if you're a basshead grab the GR-07 Bass Edition. Don't grab the classic as they aren't the same league as the two above


----------



## FeedingNation

I was looking for a headphone for simple gaming and for music enjoyment, and I was stuck with the Ath-Ad700x, ad900x, Alg k612 pro, or Akgk712 pro.

Was looking at these, as they seem to be what I was looking for. Wide soundstage.

Removable cables are an option. And will the Fiio X3k be enough to run all these headphones?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have a WHITE Sennheiser G4ME ONE something ELITE SPEAK here and it's definitely different from the PC 360. More clarity (very obvious), more extension down low and upwards with more emphasis on the bass. Bass is actually rather tight and punchy. So it's not a simple reskin but improved. 
  
 Of course it's redundant for anyone using stereo headphones and addon mics but still good to know. RIGHT? 
  
 I am positively surprised.


----------



## AxelCloris

This seems awesome for those gamers who get mad and may throw their headphones around...
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/magzet/magzet-the-audio-jack-reinvented-with-the-power-of


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> This seems awesome for those gamers who get mad and may throw their headphones around...
> 
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/magzet/magzet-the-audio-jack-reinvented-with-the-power-of




That sounds pretty awesome, actually. You'd think something like this would've been done YEARS ago, by some audiophile inventors/engineers.

Audio tech hasn't made huge leaps, as we are still using tech from early 20th century (other than many things going digital), which astounds me.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > This seems awesome for those gamers who get mad and may throw their headphones around...
> ...


 
  
 They really won me over with this graphic, lol:


----------



## Sanctuary

Whatever you do, stay far away from the Sony HW700ds if you care even the slightest about positional accuracy.  I don't really need "competitive" headphones, but I do like them to be at least relatively accurate.  These are the farthest away from accuracy as you can get.  Been playing Bloodborne over the last two days, and testing these just shows how worthless they are for anything other than stereo.  There are a lot of encounters that are like PvP fights and some multi enemy boss fights.  More often than not these headphones will have sounds that should be behind or slightly to the side, coming from front left or front right.  Anything that should be coming from the front is directly inside your head.

 Sound wise they are good (for gaming or dialogue heavy shows, but NOT music), but they would get a -10/10 for accuracy.


----------



## Change is Good

Streaming bloodborne


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Streaming bloodborne




Man, did I get tortured...


----------



## cmquickfire

When you list fun on those reviewed headphones, did you use dolby headphone ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

All my gaming is done with virtual surround, as I mentioned on the first page. Dolby Headphone mainly, THX Tru Studio next, SBX just very recently (but now the main dsp used).


----------



## Fegefeuer

WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN PURE 192khz/24bit STEREO GAMING


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> Man, did I get tortured...


 

 I watched you for a while brah, you got drilled!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN PURE 192khz/24bit STEREO GAMING




Hahaha. It could be FLAC, ultra mastered. I'd still take 128kbps mp3 and 16/44 if as long as it's proper virtual surround. What you gain is so much more beneficial than having the cleanest, yet clearly limited presentation of a standard stereo soundscape.


I know you're joking, but there are purist here with that exact mindset. It annoys me, that audio hipster mentality.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You know, visual cues help the brain "autocorrect" spatial info out of our own natural experience but the correction is very limited. That's what these "purists" just don't understand. Many games in the many last years actually help the player with visual cues/hints on where enemy gunfire comes from. From that many get the assumption that stereo is enough for imaging and spatial info.
  
 Give them a game where they have to hear/listen without cues (like generic enemy X from rooftop) and they'll fail plenty times or they realize after some time adapting to VS that they're "strangely" moving up the ladder in MP. 
  
 VR kicks in in the next years and we will get our true soundfields back. Let's see how the argument changes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One thing I like about the X7 is the ability to change the surround level on the fly. I can literally adjust how the surround sounds as I play. I found that between 80%-100% are quite similar (IIRC, I have to restest, been a few days, forgot if it was 80% or something less).


Oh yeah, I'm clearly starting to hear what the TH-900 definitely, definitely does better than the TH-600. The midrange for one. The bass and midrange seem separate from one another. As in, no bass intrusion of ANY sort. The TH-600 has a standard v-shaped shortcoming where the bass makes the midrange sound less detailed and restricted. The TH-900 doesn't follow that obvious rule for most bass heavy headphones.

It's very interesting to hear what makes them truly a better headphone.

The TH-600's bass seems a bit more prone to being too heavy, and more midbass heavy than the TH-900.


----------



## catspaw

Audio positioning is far more complex that people think.
 First time i bought a 5.1 system and plgued it in (bare in mind I had still hardware EAX running), i thought 5.1 sucked. The difference was so small I could barely notice it.
 Then I realized I had to compensate for the distance and angle of the speakers, with cm precision. (Oh yeah, and take in account reverberations, sound reflections... I dont even remember how I did that).
 After that, I could hit enemies with my eyes closed in unreal tournament original.
 It turned out so well, that most of my clan mates preferred to hit me from the front than from the back. (It turns out audio cues are registered by the brain faster than visual cues, by a nominal value of close to 60ms). Also, audio has no lag in terms of input, while monitors and tvs can have quite a lot in some cases.
 I can tell you this thou: Very few people actually have heard good quality 5.1 audio. Master and commander comes to mind first, unreal tournament close second. 
  
 I can still recall perfectly, year 2001, first time I tried the matrix mutator on unreal tournament. I can swear I heard the rocket fly by my ear. I could tell you EXACTLY where it was every second of the way.
 I dont get that today much... in fact almost never.


----------



## FeedingNation

catspaw said:


> Audio positioning is far more complex that people think.
> First time i bought a 5.1 system and plgued it in (bare in mind I had still hardware EAX running), i thought 5.1 sucked. The difference was so small I could barely notice it.
> Then I realized I had to compensate for the distance and angle of the speakers, with cm precision. (Oh yeah, and take in account reverberations, sound reflections... I dont even remember how I did that).
> After that, I could hit enemies with my eyes closed in unreal tournament original.
> ...




Because of this, I think that getting an external USB DAC+amp would be better, as I don't need that good of positioninal audio. Maybe a Fiio X3K that doubles as my portable dap


----------



## DagsJT

The X1's arrived so I've given them a few hours of listening. They're clearly better than my previous Samson SR850's but something doesn't feel right.
  
 I bought them "Very Good" condition from Amazon and I'm wondering if maybe the right speaker is louder than the left. Everything I've tried media-wise sounds louder on the right speaker, oddly.
 But even after that, things just sound a bit muffled together. I've tried using my onboard PC audio (which I know won't be great) and an Astro Mixamp 2011 on an Xbox One but it really doesn't have the clarity that I expected. Considering these are £100 more expensive than the SR850's, I'm not totally sure they're that big of an improvement. Which is odd as they've got great reviews everywhere. But maybe I should be looking for a different sound to what these offer. I'll return them to Amazon and pick up something else.
  
 Still got my eyes on a K612 but also wondering about the K702. The Q701 and HD600 are both a bit too pricey for me at £200, I could stretch to the AD700X but there doesn't seem to be a ton of positive comments about them.
  
 Would people go for the cheaper K612 which appears to be better all-around? Or the K702 which I think has better clarity but lacks the bass of the K612?
 The headphones would be for general usage for music, gaming and movies. The more I think about it, MAYBE edging towards more music listening. Music varies but I guess maybe more R&B, hip-hop, alternative, acoustic. Gaming is non-competetive. I'd like to hear sounds coming from around me but hearing individual footsteps by sacrificing bass isn't too much of a concern.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Hansotek

dagsjt said:


> The X1's arrived so I've given them a few hours of listening. They're clearly better than my previous Samson SR850's but something doesn't feel right.
> 
> I bought them "Very Good" condition from Amazon and I'm wondering if maybe the right speaker is louder than the left. Everything I've tried media-wise sounds louder on the right speaker, oddly.
> But even after that, things just sound a bit muffled together. I've tried using my onboard PC audio (which I know won't be great) and an Astro Mixamp 2011 on an Xbox One but it really doesn't have the clarity that I expected. Considering these are £100 more expensive than the SR850's, I'm not totally sure they're that big of an improvement. Which is odd as they've got great reviews everywhere. But maybe I should be looking for a different sound to what these offer. I'll return them to Amazon and pick up something else.
> ...



Did you change out the stock cable? I actually thought mine were broken when they arrived. I changed out the cable and they've rocked ever since. I'd try that before giving up on them. A $10 monoprice cable might just do the trick.


----------



## Evshrug

catspaw said:


> Dear Envy,
> I hope you can someday add to this guide both the HD700 and HD800 by sennheiser. Im not sure about this, but they seem to be rather good candidates for this guide.
> Kind Regards,
> A cat.




I just sold my HD700 last week (too many headphones, needed money for something else).
The K712 and K612 actually beat it for soundstage and "out of your head holographic sense of realism," and have a little more "snap" impact and faster decay than the HD700, but the HD700 offers very good above-average soundstage plus very well-bodied and "thick" mids and bass. By comparison the AKGs airy-ness sounded more ephemeral/wispy. So while playing a game, directional cues still work well but the main thing you'll notice is how meaty your gunshot sounds are and monsters sound closer and more threatening...

Ultimately it came down to sonic preference, the K612 was a better value for me and I was hearing slightly better detail, refinement in bass decay, and soundstage, which are more important to me than "thicker" sound. I will say the AKGs sounded weird going back to after a few weeks exclusive with the HD700, but quickly personal preference chose the AKGs. Your preference may vary.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> One thing I like about the X7 is the ability to change the surround level on the fly. I can literally adjust how the surround sounds as I play. I found that between 80%-100% are quite similar (IIRC, I have to restest, been a few days, forgot if it was 80% or something less).
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, I'm clearly starting to hear what the TH-900 definitely, definitely does better than the TH-600. The midrange for one. The bass and midrange seem separate from one another. As in, no bass intrusion of ANY sort. The TH-600 has a standard v-shaped shortcoming where the bass makes the midrange sound less detailed and restricted. The TH-900 doesn't follow that obvious rule for most bass heavy headphones.
> ...


 
  
 So what's the primary difference between SBX and Dolby Headphone?  Is SBX more accurate?  What about the reverb factor?


----------



## Evshrug

sanctuary said:


> So what's the primary difference between SBX and Dolby Headphone?  Is SBX more accurate?  What about the reverb factor?




SBX sounds less processed and more detailed, less reverb. For me, I've said multiple times that I think SBX is the clear winner, while Dolby is still very good, but Mad has said multiple times that he hears more accurately placed 6 O'clock rear sounds with Dolby and likes the lightly added bass warmth and reverb. Ultimately, SBX is more precise and Dolby blends sounds that play between two virtual speakers more (ex a sound that would in a theater be playing from both the Back-Left and Back-Right speakers to "appear" to be panned to originate from between them) and adds more "room acoustics" processing, and personal preference is going to rule the day.

I personally hate when I play a game set outdoors but the surround still has some boxed-in "room acoustics," but I've heard worse at that than Dolby.


----------



## DagsJT

Switched it out with a cable I had lying around so not sure if the replacement is much good but it didn't sound too different (if any).


----------



## PacoTaco

sanctuary said:


> So what's the primary difference between SBX and Dolby Headphone?  Is SBX more accurate?  What about the reverb factor?


 
  
 They do the same thing, albeit from different points of reference.
  
 Dolby headphone uses 5.1 channels to downscale to 2.1 using an algorithm that uses typical speaker placement as a place of reference.
  
 SBX uses a sound profile to recreate a 3D space that uses an algorithm to simulate where the sound is going in the game and translating that into two channels.
  
 SBX is generally better, as it isn't trying to downscale multiple channels. It has to revert to 5.1 if the game doesn't have a 3D sound profile in it. The issue with Dolby Headphone is the fact that crappy DSPs come with it (except in some Asus cards,) where as Creative actually uses good chips for their DSPs.


----------



## mindbomb

pacotaco said:


> They do the same thing, albeit from different points of reference.
> 
> Dolby headphone uses 5.1 channels to downscale to 2.1 using an algorithm that uses typical speaker placement as a place of reference.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't think that is true. cmss 3d on the x fi line could do what you are describing, but sbx, I imagine, is a regression to a dolby headphone style of doing things, just because games these days don't give raw audio data to sound cards anymore.


----------



## Yethal

When my friend came over this one time and he played on my setup (Mixamp 2013 back then) he described it as "playing in a soundproof room".


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> I don't think that is true. cmss 3d on the x fi line could do what you are describing, but sbx, I imagine, is a regression to a dolby headphone style of doing things, just because games these days don't give raw audio data to sound cards anymore.


 
 I thought that, but Creative does own the CMSS stuff. It's also called 3DRecon or something on the Sound Blaster soundcards. I had to talk to a lot of customer reps about my X7 not wanting to accept 5.1 (I had the bitrate too high,) and they recommended constantly that I should keep it at 2.1 because 3D sound is game-dependent. I think BF4 was one of those that has a profile that the SBX takes advantage of, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
  
 Otherwise, it does resort to doing the dolby-headphone style of things, but it has the advantage of being a newer algorithm that has actually seen improvement over the years. There's nothing wrong with the Dolby headphone-way of things, as using static "speakers" makes it able to take any 5.1/7.1 signal, but Dolby just hasn't really improved their stuff since...god knows when.


----------



## RRod

pacotaco said:


> I thought that, but Creative does own the CMSS stuff. It's also called 3DRecon or something on the Sound Blaster soundcards. I had to talk to a lot of customer reps about my X7 not wanting to accept 5.1 (I had the bitrate too high,) and they recommended constantly that I should keep it at 2.1 because 3D sound is game-dependent. I think BF4 was one of those that has a profile that the SBX takes advantage of, but I can't remember off the top of my head.
> 
> Otherwise, it does resort to doing the dolby-headphone style of things, but it has the advantage of being a newer algorithm that has actually seen improvement over the years. There's nothing wrong with the Dolby headphone-way of things, as using static "speakers" makes it able to take any 5.1/7.1 signal, but Dolby just hasn't really improved their stuff since...god knows when.


 
  
 Some games have their own HRTF functionality (I believe BF4 is one of them), so for them you keep the soundcard on 2.1 because the game is outputting a stereo signal with the positional information already encoded within.


----------



## 8bitg33k

Well, I'm sad to say this is the end of my Fiio E17 adventure 
  
 Before I go to far - my setup is I have SPDIF from my Asus Xonar DG to the E17, then I use the V-Moda Splitter to plug the headset (Fidelio X1) into the E17 and the mic into the mic port of my Xonar DG soundcard.
  
 I started noticing a high pitched sound that sounded like coil whine at higher volumes, so I began unplugging various devices. I noticed that when I turned off the LED lights on my new Corsaid K70, the whine was not quite as bad (but still present and distracting), so at first I thought it was that. Nope - I unplugged the keyboard altogether, and while not as loud the coil whine was still there.
  
 Unplugged the mic - no more whine! Plug it back in, whine starts again. Here is where it gets interesting: For giggles I thought I try plugging both the headset and the mic into my soundcard - and the coil whine sound stopped!
  
 In short, if use the E17 along with the mic splitter going to two different devices at the same time = coil whine. Unplug the mic and use the E17 just for headset = no coil whine. Plug both the headset and the mic into my soundcard = no coil whine.
  
 I guess I'll be going without the E17 until I can get something figured out - which probably wont happen but you never know, right? And honestly, other than the max volume being a good deal more quiet there is no difference in audio quality I can tell using the soundcard compared to the E17.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone and SBX are very similar. Dolby Headphone has better rear cues between 4-8 o clock, but has more reverb. The SBX sounds tighter, with clearer audio cues. Dolby Headphone adds a tad bit of warmth which aids the fullness of headphones, while the SBX has a slightly dry tone.

All in all, SBX is better, and good enough alternative for me. I miss the extra bit of rear distinction that is a clear win for Dolby Headphone, but overall the tradeoff is worth it, as SBX is still good in that regard, while sounding less processed.

I actually find SBX and THX Tru Studio very, very similar, with SBX having a more circular soundstage, with less akward transition from front cues to side cues.


----------



## Hansotek

dagsjt said:


> Switched it out with a cable I had lying around so not sure if the replacement is much good but it didn't sound too different (if any).



Dang, sounds like you got a defective pair. Personally, I think it's worth doing an exchange for a new pair and giving the Fidelio X1 another chance. In my opinion, they're a clear upgrade from any of the other sets you mentioned. 

If you go the AKG route, your going to need a serious amp to get sound that meets or exceeds what the X1 can do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would suggest the X2 instead. Its well known that the X1 has a bit of sloppiness in the bass which bleeds into the mids a tad. The X2 is simply much better at transitioning, as well as having a noticeable lift in clarity.


----------



## Hansotek

Or you can do that.


----------



## CannonCollector

Any feedback on the sound on bloodborne? Bought the game on launch day (managed to get the last piece) but haven't had time to play it yet but gotta admit, I'm really curious how's the sound of the game specially with surround and everything specially considering the dark atmosphere the game has 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 Since I'll only be able to try it out either this weekend or later next week, I'll apreciate any feedback about the sound, just to have a taste of what it's like


----------



## Evshrug

I'm super sad to hear Kojima and Konami are parting ways... The new Silent Hill looked so good! I suppose the Silent Hill franchise is... Cursed? The P.T. is an excellent sound demo, btw.


----------



## Ppxfern

So after a little research, I have narrowed down my research for IEM into these pairs. So, My priorities are- Gaming AND Music. Which would be perfect?

1) Vsonic GRO7 bass edition- legendary set no doubt, but how it would be for gaming?

2) Shure SE215 - All rounder and I like it for their durability as I travel a lot.

3) RHA MA750 - Almost same as shure but better, over the ear fit is a hassle ( or not?)

4) Senheisser Momentum In ear - recent review suggest lots of cod noises.

Really confused, I am not audiophile per se, but I do understand good music. Some of the games has really great soundtrack.
Also, I will be using these on my iphone 5 and lenovo y510p laptop.


----------



## Change is Good

martin vegas said:


> I watched you for a while brah, you got drilled!




Yeah, man, but that was when I was just a minion. Now it's a totally different story 




cannoncollector said:


> Any feedback on the sound on bloodborne? Bought the game on launch day (managed to get the last piece) but haven't had time to play it yet but gotta admit, I'm really curious how's the sound of the game specially with surround and everything specially considering the dark atmosphere the game has
> 
> Since I'll only be able to try it out either this weekend or later next week, I'll apreciate any feedback about the sound, just to have a taste of what it's like




Sound effects and positional cues are just as insane as the gameplay, meng. You should be thoroughly impressed!


----------



## CannonCollector

change is good said:


> Yeah, man, but that was when I was just a minion. Now it's a totally different story
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Good to know can't wait to try it out


----------



## catspaw

evshrug said:


> I just sold my HD700 last week (too many headphones, needed money for something else).
> The K712 and K612 actually beat it for soundstage and "out of your head holographic sense of realism," and have a little more "snap" impact and faster decay than the HD700, but the HD700 offers very good above-average soundstage plus very well-bodied and "thick" mids and bass. By comparison the AKGs airy-ness sounded more ephemeral/wispy. So while playing a game, directional cues still work well but the main thing you'll notice is how meaty your gunshot sounds are and monsters sound closer and more threatening...
> 
> Ultimately it came down to sonic preference, the K612 was a better value for me and I was hearing slightly better detail, refinement in bass decay, and soundstage, which are more important to me than "thicker" sound. I will say the AKGs sounded weird going back to after a few weeks exclusive with the HD700, but quickly personal preference chose the AKGs. Your preference may vary.


 
 That is something I think I could get behind.
 I tested the AKG 701 and while I liked it over all, I felt it was too thin for my tastes (and actually in the mids, not the bass).
 I am aiming for a HD800 for my gaming, assuming Things dont go well with a certain girl that I want get to know, and since I play games 85% of the time, how a hp does in gaming is a very important thing for me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

VALHAHAHAHAHLLA 2 shipped. Finally. Should bere here tomorrow. Jawohl. 
  
 Let's see what it really does to the HD 800. Vali was already good.


----------



## ParityBit

mad lust envy said:


> All my gaming is done with virtual surround, as I mentioned on the first page. Dolby Headphone mainly, THX Tru Studio next, SBX just very recently (but now the main dsp used).


 
 Can you/should you use virtual surround devices on consoles?    I am looking for new head hones (My cat chewed through the wires on my last pair) and I am looking for a replacement that has a detachable wire and open air (I think).
  
 I play on my PS4, Xbox One and PC and would like for these to be used on all 3. I also run the sound through the controller rather than through the out on the receiver for both the PS and Xbox.
  
 I may be leaning towards the X1 or Q 701 (I think they are both open back and detachable wires) ....


----------



## Evshrug

Parity,
Sure you can, you use a device that can connect to the console/receiver's optical output, and can decode Dolby Digital.
Some devices, in order of price:
turtle beach DSS> Astro Mixamp> Creative X7.

I discuss virtual surround and have a bunch of reviews in my thread, linked in my signature. If you just want short device reviews, Mad put some in his guide.

Both the headphones you mentioned are quite good and have the detachable cables, also Massdrop is almost finished with it's Philips SPH9500 drop for $60 + shipping.


----------



## VictorGG

Hey MLE! Just saw you have a similar combo to what Im looking for, can you comment on its sound characteristics? For playing and some rock listening! Thanks
  
 - Fidelio X2 + Lyr 2 (wanna try some tube rolling) or Vali
  
 The other candidate is:
  
 - HE-400i + Lyr2or Vali
  
 Thanks


----------



## PacoTaco

victorgg said:


> Hey MLE! Just saw you have a similar combo to what Im looking for, can you comment on its sound characteristics? For playing and some rock listening! Thanks
> 
> - Fidelio X2 + Lyr 2 (wanna try some tube rolling).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'm not MLE, but the HE400i is a great choice if you want immersion but not too much bass getting into the way of smaller details. It has a lot of deep bass, but it isn't at the same level as it's predecessor (the HE400.) It is, however, more comfortable, has an incredible mid-range, and slightly smoothed high-end. The soundstage could be better, but the nature of this headphone won't really allow for it.
  
 The X2 is more like a neutral can that discovered the issues caused by the fun of it's predacessor and sought to correct some of them. It seems like a good headphone from what I've been told and the FR graph I've seen, but I honestly couldn't stand the first iteration. MLE loves this headphone though, as it has the right kind of bass for him while still sounding good with everything else, but planars like the HE400i are just better in bass quality (but not quantity...I.e., it goes deeper with more clarity, but won't sound large and cinematic like the X2.)
  
 You may also want to consider a ZMF Vibro. It sound very much like the HE400i, and you can increase or decrease at your leisure. It does very well with immersive games. However, the soundstage isn't the best, as it is more forward than the HE400i. Plus, it has wood cups.


----------



## AxelCloris

Only losers buy the HE-400i. (@Change is Good)
  
 Seriously though, it's a heck of a can for the price. I prefer it to the HE-400 in every way, but I know some of our resident bass lovers would disagree with me on that one. In my case too much bass can ruin the immersion and it pulls me out of the game. That said I have modded my 400i to improve them, and the bass has been slightly emphasized as a result.
  
 The 400i is more efficient than the older HiFiMan headphones so it'll pair quite well with the Lyr 2.
  
 I haven't heard the X2 so no comment.


----------



## PacoTaco

axelcloris said:


> Only losers buy the HE-400i. (@Change is Good)
> 
> Seriously though, it's a heck of a can for the price. I prefer it to the HE-400 in every way, but I know some of our resident bass lovers would disagree with me on that one. In my case too much bass can ruin the immersion and it pulls me out of the game. That said I have modded my 400i to improve them, and the bass has been slightly emphasized as a result.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know, I thing bass lovers agree the HE400 bass is a lot better than the 400i, as it is a baby LCD 2 in that regard. The funny part is the opinion that the HE400i is a baby LCD 2.2f in everything BUT bass. The bass is awesome though, it's just more punchy and fast while the HE400 is more substantial and enveloping. I just can't stand the sibilance of the HE400.


----------



## AxelCloris

pacotaco said:


> I don't know, I thing bass lovers agree the HE400 bass is a lot better than the 400i, as it is a baby LCD 2 in that regard. The funny part is the opinion that the HE400i is a baby LCD 2.2f in everything BUT bass. The bass is awesome though, it's just more punchy and fast while the HE400 is more substantial and enveloping. I just can't stand the sibilance of the HE400.


 
  
 You're right, I was saying that bass lovers would prefer the 400 to the 400i. That's why I said I prefer the 400i but most bass lovers would lean the other way.


----------



## BigBadWulf

fegefeuer said:


> VALHAHAHAHAHLLA 2 shipped. Finally. Should bere here tomorrow. Jawohl.
> 
> Let's see what it really does to the HD 800. Vali was already good.


 
 Congrats!
 Haha, clicking every hour at your tracking number will not help to increase the shipping Speed 
 I am very interested in your results  (after the first "new toy" yippi ya yah ^^ ).


----------



## ParityBit

evshrug said:


> Parity,
> Sure you can, you use a device that can connect to the console/receiver's optical output, and can decode Dolby Digital.
> Some devices, in order of price:
> turtle beach DSS> Astro Mixamp> Creative X7.
> ...




Are both of those open backs? I get hot so I was kinda hoping for those. Any other options or do you think choosing from one of those will be good for my purpose? . I am excited to get something ordered!


----------



## Change is Good

Hahaha! There just happens to be an available 400i from a certain someone, too.

I really like it, but it just doesn't get much head time. Better off in a more appreciable home.


----------



## EffinFancy

Long time lurker here:  Thanks for those who keep this thread going.  The contributors of this thread helped me make my choice for my first legit gaming headphones back in 2011 and now again in 2015.


----------



## BigBadWulf

2K Pages! Congrats to MLE and his fantastic thread!


----------



## Rich887

Hey MLE , 

Got my Fostex TH900's tonight OMG you are 110% correct about them being an Awesome set of headphones !! The soundstage is absolutely Amazing ! I would swear that these are open headphones. I'll admit they may not sound as airy at my K7XX but they more than make up for it with the overall presentation of sound. Thanks for your help in deciding to give them a try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Awesome. Glad you like it. It truly is a stellar pair of cans.

Funny, I used the X2 today for awhile while playing Destiny. I went back to the TH900, and had a shock due to going from an open can to closed. The TH-900 sounded all kinds of terrible for a few minutes until my ears adjusted.

This is a big reason why I do not like A/B comparisons of two headphones with completely different signatures AND open vs closed.


----------



## Change is Good

Destiny? Drop the kiddie game and pick up Bloodborne, homie!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah. I hate frustrating games. Didn't care for stuff like Demon/Dark Souls. That's just rage quit inducing.


----------



## ParityBit

Hey MLE,

Do you have a suggestion between the two head phones I listed above?

Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

I finally retrieved the Soundblaster Recon 3D extension cable from my friend I gave the soundblaster to.
  
 The current audio setup looks like this:
  
 X7 3.5mm jacks > Extension cable headphones end> short HD598 cable
 X7 3.5mm jacks > Extension cable mic end > ModMic
 X7 3.5mm jacks > Extension cable controller end > PS4 chat cable
  
 I can now use the microphone plugged into the X7 with the PS4, as well as my PC and my phone, ergo this setup is perfect.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Hah. I hate frustrating games. Didn't care for stuff like Demon/Dark Souls. That's just rage quit inducing.




Yes, that is very true. It is a rage quitting, mother swearing, gut wrenching game. Trust me, however, when I say it just makes it that more rewarding. 

Also, the fact that I can summon one of my friends to help me pass a boss or level is very helpful. This may just be my favorite game on new gen, thus far.


----------



## ParityBit

It looks like from what I am reading, it is better to get the X2.  2-5 week on Amazon though    I don't know what to do.  Hrm


----------



## Rich887

paritybit said:


> It looks like from what I am reading, it is better to get the X2.  2-5 week on Amazon though    I don't know what to do.  Hrm





This website has them now no tax and free shipping at $299.00 https://www.techatrone.com/philips-x2-27-fidelio-headphones-black?language=en&currency=USD


----------



## conquerator2

Guess I will get it eventually. Why is your 400i for sale?


----------



## ParityBit

rich887 said:


> This website has them now no tax and free shipping at $299.00 https://www.techatrone.com/philips-x2-27-fidelio-headphones-black?language=en¤cy=USD


 
  
 Are they reliable?  How is the shipping from there?


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> Guess I will get it eventually. Why is your 400i for sale?




Can't justify keeping when it barely ever gets any head time. While it's the better headphone, both sonically and technically, I always find myself grabbing the 1540 or K7XX, instead. Just a matter of sound preference, I guess.


----------



## ParityBit

Is Techatrone a legit site with good shipping service?  Never heard/used them before.


----------



## Rich887

paritybit said:


> Is Techatrone a legit site with good shipping service?  Never heard/used them before.



Unfortunately I have no experience with them just buy on CC to protect yourself.


----------



## pietcux

The problem with the U7 is that Windows does not recognize it as 7.1 or 5.1 device but only as a Stereo device. So the U7 emulates the down sampled stereo signal from games as surround somehow. It is not totally bad, but a Xonar internal soundcard that is recognized as 7.1 from windows sounds much better regarding positioning. And the Xonar U5 seems to be a U5 without any Dolby codec.


----------



## taropaste

Hi guys.
  
 I'm at CanJam SoCal this weekend. Creative is running a special for this weekend on the X7 and the E1/3/5. Coupon code "SBX7CAN" for $100 off either the regular or special edition X7 and "CANJAM20" for 20% of the E-series. Codes are good for purchases on their website.
  
 Thought I'd share in case anyone is interested.


----------



## Change is Good

Streaming some more Bloodborne on Twitch (click on link in signature) if anyone wants to watch me get tortured.

*Viewer discretion is advised*


----------



## burritoboy9984

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826138190

Excellent deal for anyone looking for a pair of entry level gaming headphones with a HUGE soundstage.

Erik


----------



## psychopab

First, let me say hello and that I am impressed by the head-fi community, just wow 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 From time to time I read reviews here, but this time I need help in choosing headphones.
 I am a gamer, competitive games mostly (like csgo, but love all games), so I want good positioning for sure, hearing footsteps etc.
 On the other hand, I love music... but my priority is gaming.
  
 Currently I have Asus Xonar DG with Plantronics Gamecom 367 (bought years ago).
 My budget for the new headphones is ~160$
  
 The basic question is, is it worth it for me to buy a new headphones? Will I notice a difference in sound quality?
  
 I read a little and found such proposals:
Audio-Technica​ ​M50​ Audio-Technica​ ​AD700​ AKG K612 Pro​ Philips SHP9500
  
 What do you think? Any suggestions?
  
 PS If I made any mistakes, sorry, but english is not my native language


----------



## Yethal

psychopab said:


> First, let me say hello and that I am impressed by the head-fi community, just wow
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 AD700 is kinda hard to find but it's supposed to be toptier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's been replaced with the AD700x, which isn't, and has the same sound. Just different build quality and aesthetics.

I wouldn't suggest that if youre into music though. Its a bit too lean sounding.


For $160, I would suggests the K612 instead, though a Xonar DG won't cut it.


----------



## ParityBit

I picked up a pair of X2's from Amazon. Get them Friday! I hope I like them!

How long is the cable that comes with it? Good quality too?


----------



## psychopab

mad lust envy said:


> It's been replaced with the AD700x, which isn't, and has the same sound. Just different build quality and aesthetics.
> 
> I wouldn't suggest that if youre into music though. Its a bit too lean sounding.
> 
> ...


  

 Both don't have detachable cable, right? Btw, it is a cool feature or I will not miss it?
  
 In general, both headphones are similar to each other with terms of quality sound and I won't make the mistake of choosing one or the other?
 Still have not decided, but I slowly tend to K612.
  
 Maybe build quality and design? On pictures both headphones looks good, but how are they in reality?


----------



## EliteSpartan03

Great thread, lots of good info. I've had a few different headphones/headsets for gaming in the past: akg q701, Astro a40, and now a turtle beach stealth 500x. I love the wireless features on the 500x but they aren't too comfortable and I wish the earcups were larger. Sound is pretty good overall. Anyway, I'm thinking of a couple different setups. What are your thoughts on the sennheiser g4me ones? I like the large earcups and the flip up mic mute is pretty slick. Between those and the Phillips x2. I know completely different setups but curious what you guys would go for. I have the Astro mix amp and a v mods boom pro already so really could go with either way. I mostly would use them for gaming, I play a lot of different types of games on both ps4 and xb1. Battlefield, dying light, driveclub, forza series, halo mcc, assassins creed, etc


----------



## catspaw

mad lust envy said:


> Hah. I hate frustrating games. Didn't care for stuff like Demon/Dark Souls. That's just rage quit inducing.


 
 I like hard and frustrating games (within reason, i tried angry birds for 20 seconds before turning off).


----------



## Torian

Hope i am not totally wrong when asking for a comparison in here (i made a thread about it already in the introduction section).
 I have cut down my choices to 3 headphones, most i can read or watch about them is positive but to come to a conclusion i need them to be compared to each other.
 Choices are,
 1-Beyerdynamic DT880 250Ohm Edition
 2-Philips Fidelio x2
 3-Sony MDR-MA900
 I would ask for a simplificated down comparison, maybe you could kinda rank them by the number in each category. Why i moved my question to here is simple: eventhough i want them as an all-purpose headphones, their crucial job will be in competitive Arena FPS games. So which offers the bigger Soundstage, the better Positional locating, Details and other stuff that take place in games?
  
 Great Topic to get a general idea MLE, thanks for your hard work


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the X2. Done.

The 880s don't have excellent depth. The MA900 is great, but a bit smoothed over. The X2 is well rounded in every regard.


----------



## Stillhart

I have much news to report from Canjam.
  
 First, the X2 is KILLER.  Easily the best headphone under $300 I heard at the show.  They really did fix the issues with the X1.  I prefer it to the K7xx, actually.  This get my easy recommendation for anyone looking to spend more than $200 on a gaming can.
  
 I heard the 1540's and they were pretty good.  SUPER bassy, not my style, but really nice.  Heard the TH900 too and didn't come away very impressed.  I feel like I'm missing something there.
  
 Oh and the Smyth Realizer is flat out amazing.  I could have SWORN there was an invisible speaker on the wall 5 feet in front of me and when I turned my head, it stayed there.  It was so realistic that it weirded me out; I had this weird cognitive dissonance between what I was hearing and what I was seeing.  I had to take off the headphones for a second to make sure there wasn't actually a speaker like under the table or something that I didn't notice.  It was mind blowing.  
  
 This tech in gaming would be such a competitive advantage.  Imagine hearing something from the side and turning your head just a little to zero in on the sound, instead of turning your character in game.  If you guess wrong, you don't lose those valuable fractions of a second to turn back the other way.  Not to mention just the improvement in overall immersion.
  
 The problem, of course, is the price.  I had a very long, very interesting discussion with the VP of Smyth all about how gamers would pay good money for a cheaper, version of the tech.  I won't go into all the details of the discussion but he was very interested and asked me to contact him after the show.
  
 I also had a very similar discussion with Jason Stoddard about the need for something in between the $100 Mixamp and the $3000 Smyth.  He was also very intrigued.  He told me that he talks to people all day and gets lots of ideas thrown at him, but this one really intrigued him.  He also requested that I contact him later to discuss it further.
  
 Side note on the Smyth (before @AxelCloris comes in and says it):  Axel didn't hear it the same way I did.  The Realizer has to be calibrated to your specific head.  They used a saved preset for the demo, with the caveat that it won't sound nearly as good as getting it customized (tho it will still sound better than DH, etc).  Axel says he heard the speaker but it was right in front of his face.  I heard it 5 feet in front of me in a big open room.  This will be one of the challenges I'm going to be discussing with them.
  
 Mad, have you heard it?


----------



## Change is Good

I'm going to have to hear the X2 again because I really was not that impressed when I had it. Soundstage was small for an open headphone, sounding almost closed, at times. The timbre was nice, though, I will say that. Maybe now that my ears have re-adjusted to the slightly more forgiving K7XX rather than the brighter HP200, I might can appreciate the X2 more than I originally did.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I'm going to have to hear the X2 again because I really was not that impressed when I had it. Soundstage was small for an open headphone, sounding almost closed, at times. The timbre was nice, though, I will say that. Maybe now that my ears have re-adjusted to the slightly more forgiving K7XX rather than the brighter HP200, I might can appreciate the X2 more than I originally did.


 
  
 It might also be your source.  The NFB-15 is a little closed and definitely warm compared to most of the Sabre stuff I've heard.  The X2 is very bassy and not super open so the 15 would just exacerbate that.  The NFB-11 would be a better fit.


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> The problem, of course, is the price.  I had a very long, very interesting discussion with the VP of Smyth all about how gamers would pay good money for a cheaper, version of the tech.  I won't go into all the details of the discussion but he was very interested and asked me to contact him after the show.
> 
> I also had a very similar discussion with Jason Stoddard about the need for something in between the $100 Mixamp and the $3000 Smyth.  He was also very intrigued.  He told me that he talks to people all day and gets lots of ideas thrown at him, but this one really intrigued him.  He also requested that I contact him later to discuss it further.


 
 Just a simple HDMI passthrough device that outputs an S/PDIF digital signal to an external DAC perhaps? That would be cool


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Just a simple HDMI passthrough device that outputs an S/PDIF digital signal to an external DAC perhaps? That would be cool


 
  
 The Smyth uses HDMI, so if they end up doing something, there's a very good chance it'd have HDMI (hooray!) pass-through.  And yes, I did discuss an optical pass-through device with Jason.


----------



## Yethal

Well, it would also be nice if it had more than one input. It would be a bitch to replug it everytime we need to switch sources. Part of the reason I'm typing this post on a 40" Bravia TV instead of a regular desktop monitor is that it has an optical output (which actually outputs a Dolby Digital Signal, not some downscaled absurdity). I can switch the X7 between my PS3 and my PS4 (And X1) in the future by simply switching the channel on the TV.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> Well, it would also be nice if it had more than one input. It would be a bitch to replug it everytime we need to switch sources. Part of the reason I'm typing this post on a 40" Bravia TV instead of a regular desktop monitor is that it has an optical output (which actually outputs a Dolby Digital Signal, not some downscaled absurdity). I can switch the X7 between my PS3 and my PS4 (And X1) in the future by simply switching the channel on the TV.


 
  
 Those are details.  The important part is getting them on board with the idea of even making on in the first place.  Baby steps.  
  
 At the end of the day, if Schiit made something that only took optical in and output virtual surround to a headphone jack using the Modi and Magni tech (think Magni+Modi+DTSHX in one box), it would still crush pretty much any other option on the market.  The X7 would compete solely on its flexibility.


----------



## AxelCloris

Dharma + Realiser + Schiit = Holy balls I want. Even with the Realiser demo I still want it, it just needs to be a better calibration to work as well for me as it did for Stillhart. Gaming would be changed forever.

I'm debating selling all of my headphones and getting the Dharma when it's out. I'll probably decide after THE Show Newport. Enigma and Questyle are brand partners, so since I'm working with Questyle I should have the Dharma all show if they have enough available.

Wanna game on the Dharma!!!


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Dharma + Realiser + Schiit = Holy balls I want. Even with the Realiser demo I still want it, it just needs to be a better calibration to work as well for me as it did for Stillhart. Gaming would be changed forever.
> 
> I'm debating selling all of my headphones and getting the Dharma when it's out. I'll probably decide after THE Show Newport. Enigma and Questyle are brand partners, so since I'm working with Questyle I should have the Dharma all show if they have enough available.
> 
> Wanna game on the Dharma!!!


 
  
 Oh snap, I sense someone getting a review Dharma!  And omg, that would be a crazy gaming can.  Honestly, I think Mad would love it.  Crazy bass with 'stat mids and treble... what's not to love?
  
 I am like seriously considering emailing Dharma to see if they need a shill to help at The Show...


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> I also had a very similar discussion with Jason Stoddard about the need for something in between the $100 Mixamp and the $3000 Smyth.  He was also very intrigued.  He told me that he talks to people all day and gets lots of ideas thrown at him, but this one really intrigued him.  He also requested that I contact him later to discuss it further.


 
  
 I would buy that product in a second from Schiit!
  
 There is a significant and obvious gap in the market... especially in that $200-$300 price bracket... that range seems like a big sweet spot for a lot of folks on Head-fi.


----------



## Yethal

But the price point needs to be set low enough for people to not think of it as a gimmick only mlg l33t proz need. Mixamp is 130 usd after all and it does offer a lot of useful features, apart from the virtual surround itself (mainly playing from all inputs at once and being usb powered instead of wall powered.


----------



## Stillhart

yethal said:


> But the price point needs to be set low enough for people to not think of it as a gimmick only mlg l33t proz need. Mixamp is 130 usd after all and it does offer a lot of useful features, apart from the virtual surround itself (mainly playing from all inputs at once and being usb powered instead of wall powered.


 
  
 Yeah, but it has a fatal flaw:  it sounds like ****.  I'd rather have one that sounds like Schiit.  
  
 And don't forget, lots of folks buy the $130 Mixamp AND the $100 Magni (or equivalent) because the amp sucks.  So really I'd think of it as a $230 price point that they have to keep in mind.


----------



## Yethal

stillhart said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > But the price point needs to be set low enough for people to not think of it as a gimmick only mlg l33t proz need. Mixamp is 130 usd after all and it does offer a lot of useful features, apart from the virtual surround itself (mainly playing from all inputs at once and being usb powered instead of wall powered.
> ...


 
 It does, yeah. So imagine a Mixamp 2015 which has mini toslink integrated with the headphone jack (and a separate mic jack) for those people who want their games to sound better. That wouldn't increase the price by that much and would allow the people who already have a good audio setup to spend less.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > But the price point needs to be set low enough for people to not think of it as a gimmick only mlg l33t proz need. Mixamp is 130 usd after all and it does offer a lot of useful features, apart from the virtual surround itself (mainly playing from all inputs at once and being usb powered instead of wall powered.
> ...


 
  
 Agreed. I'd happily trade all the bells and whistles for something that does the job and sounds good. Heck, I'd be perfectly fine with a nice 5.1 DAC that I can just plug in to my own amp. Or even better, a combo unit with the ability to bypass the internal amp and use my own.


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> It does, yeah. So imagine a Mixamp 2015 which has mini toslink integrated with the headphone jack (and a separate mic jack) for those people who want their games to sound better. That wouldn't increase the price by that much and would allow the people who already have a good audio setup to spend less.


 

 I'd be happy if Schiit released a simpler, awesome and more powerful solution to the Astro Mixamp. I mean, the X7 is great and all, but amp would have a heart attack if I even thought about driving anything like the T1 through it. It barely drives the Blackwood as it is. 800mW @ 32 ohms sounds pretty nice, but then it doesn't really translate well into headroom for planars. Doesn't help you can't even use a separate amp with it and retain the SBX processing.
  
 That said, I love it for what it does, but I still have gripes. If I stay with PC gaming -erminently (sold my Xbone last night and still don't know if Persona 5 and Bloodborne is going to be enough for me to want to own a PS4) like I'm doing right now, I may just have to sell the X7 and use the optical out of a soundblaster Z to the Geek Pulse for SBX


----------



## Yethal

Or just wait for a firmware update which will hopefully enable SBX processing to the line out/ or s/pdif out.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

I overheard a little bird telling me that Fostex TH600 are the second best Closed headphone! Where Can I find for that $500 price or cheaper? I sold my X1 and Tritton 720+ . How is the noise canceling on it?


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Or just wait for a firmware update which will hopefully enable SBX processing to the line out/ or s/pdif out.


 
  
 I'm skeptical on that one, as they should have put it in like they already had with their other soundcards. I'm thinking it's related to the USB input, as the optical in can get SBX processing as it passes to the optical out (as per their manual.) It just seems that USB out from USB doesn't exactly work very well. Of course, I might be misreading everyone's posts and neither optical in nor usb in get SBX optical out.


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> I overheard a little bird telling me that Fostex TH600 are the second best Closed headphone! Where Can I find for that $500 price or cheaper? I sold my X1 and Tritton 720+ . How is the noise canceling on it?


 
 www.razordogaudio.com open box.


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Or just wait for a firmware update which will hopefully enable SBX processing to the line out/ or s/pdif out.
> ...


 
 I emailed the Creatve support a while ago, they confirmed that X7 does not passes an SBX processed signal through the optical out or line out. I'm pretty sure it's a software limitation, and as such could be resolved in a future firmware upgrade.


----------



## conquerator2

^ Sure hope so.


----------



## PacoTaco

badboybrazil said:


> I overheard a little bird telling me that Fostex TH600 are the second best Closed headphone! Where Can I find for that $500 price or cheaper? I sold my X1 and Tritton 720+ . How is the noise canceling on it?


 
  
 Don't get the TH600 if you want isolation in a closed headphone. It is technically a semi-open headphone that leans towards a closed one, kind of like how the Beyerdynamic DT880 is a semi-closed headphone that leans towards open.
  
 If you want a closed headphone with great bass like the TH600 at the TH600's price point, the ZMF Vibro is worth a shot. It isn't V-shaped like the TH600 as it is a dark headphone, but that bass is awesome and it is very fun for gaming.
  
 At this price range, the best closed headphones are probably going to be the Mad Dog, Vibro, Alpha Dog, TH600 annnddd that's about it really. The very best closed headphones are the Blackwood, the LCD XC, the TH900 and the Alpha Prime (though that one is an iffy. I'm curious to see how long the hype train lasts for it now that the Ether is coming out.)


----------



## Sam21

Oh Man, Just ordered a G109S to pair with my Bifrost Uber...*HIGH *fidelity ... lolz


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> Don't get the TH600 if you want isolation in a closed headphone. It is technically a semi-open headphone that leans towards a closed one, kind of like how the Beyerdynamic DT880 is a semi-closed headphone that leans towards open.
> 
> If you want a closed headphone with great bass like the TH600 at the TH600's price point, the ZMF Vibro is worth a shot. It isn't V-shaped like the TH600 as it is a dark headphone, but that bass is awesome and it is very fun for gaming.
> 
> At this price range, the best closed headphones are probably going to be the Mad Dog, Vibro, Alpha Dog, TH600 annnddd that's about it really. The very best closed headphones are the Blackwood, the LCD XC, the TH900 and the Alpha Prime (though that one is an iffy. I'm curious to see how long the hype train lasts for it now that the Ether is coming out.)


 
 Don't forget the 1540's.  
  
 I personally didn't like the Primes.  The Ether was wonderful though.


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Don't forget the 1540's.
> 
> I personally didn't like the Primes.  The Ether was wonderful though.


 
 Completely forgot about the 1540's.
  
 I could get on a rant about the Primes, as I had the complete opposite of burn-in. Once the hype wore off, they were really fatiguing and the midrange sounded odd. I liked the concept of the new driver mod, but I wasn't sure it translated well to a closed headphone. I hope the Ether wonderful, as it is going against the LCD 3 and HD800 at that price point.
  
 I'd recommend the Blackwood for gaming, but I'm not sure how it does yet. I'm still trying to mod the hell out of Skyrim, and it isn't cooperating very well.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

pacotaco said:


> Don't get the TH600 if you want isolation in a closed headphone. It is technically a semi-open headphone that leans towards a closed one, kind of like how the Beyerdynamic DT880 is a semi-closed headphone that leans towards open.
> 
> If you want a closed headphone with great bass like the TH600 at the TH600's price point, the ZMF Vibro is worth a shot. It isn't V-shaped like the TH600 as it is a dark headphone, but that bass is awesome and it is very fun for gaming.
> 
> At this price range, the best closed headphones are probably going to be the Mad Dog, Vibro, Alpha Dog, TH600 annnddd that's about it really. The very best closed headphones are the Blackwood, the LCD XC, the TH900 and the Alpha Prime (though that one is an iffy. I'm curious to see how long the hype train lasts for it now that the Ether is cuming out .)


 


stillhart said:


> www.razordogaudio.com open box.






stillhart said:


> Don't forget the 1540's.
> 
> I personally didn't like the Primes.  The Ether was wonderful though.




Thanks guys for the input I will look into it! BTW there isn't nothing like X2 but closed headphone?


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> Thanks guys for the input I will look into it! BTW there isn't nothing like X2 but closed headphone?


 
  
 The Shure 1540 is what immediately comes to mind.  I was definitely impressed by them the other day.


----------



## lenroot77

I've been playing counterspy the last day or so. Fun little game! Check it out before the month is over while it's still free for ps plus.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> I've been playing counterspy the last day or so. Fun little game! Check it out before the month is over while it's still free for ps plus.




As with any free monthly game you can play it whenever you like as long as you remain a member. Just make sure you add it to your library before the monthly cycle ends and you are good to go.


----------



## Rich887

badboybrazil said:


> I overheard a little bird telling me that Fostex TH600 are the second best Closed headphone! Where Can I find for that $500 price or cheaper? I sold my X1 and Tritton 720+ . How is the noise canceling on it?




You can like previously stated get them at http://www.razordogaudio.com .. He'll give you $100 off brand new by putting the discount code from the bottom of his page. That'll put the price at $499 new.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> As with any free monthly game you can play it whenever you like as long as you remain a member. Just make sure you add it to your library before the monthly cycle ends and you are good to go.




Well yes I probably could have worded that better


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the X2 even next to the TH900. If that don't say how much I believe in the X2's sound quality, then I don't know what else to tell you guys. It really is a headphone I can't see myself giving up, even next to the TH900. The TH900 takes more than a quick demo to really understand. remember, I thought it was near identical to the TH600 the first night. the next few days, I really started to how how special they were, so much, the TH600 just didn't compare (though it is still a very wonderful headphone, and easily my third fave closed headphone).

The TH900 is far and large one of the most well controlled headphones I've ever heard, even nexct to the best open backed headphones I've heard. The bass quality is basically a 9.75, quantity is a 9, mids are a 9/10 in quality, and easily separated from the bass. Treble is sparkly, and very clean as well. Please give me an example of ANY headphone that does bass better than the TH900 with the amount of low end is has, and I'll call BS. The control is otherwordly.

I think the isolation problems with the TH600 and TH900 are highly exaggerated. Yes, if someone is next to you, they will hear your audio. However, anyone like 15 feet away or another room won't have any issue with your Fostex. It is still functional as a closed headphone.


----------



## Rich887

mad lust envy said:


> I love the X2 even next to the TH900. If that don't say how much I believe in the X2's sound quality, then I don't know what else to tell you guys. It really is a headphone I can't see myself giving up, even next to the TH900. The TH900 takes more than a quick demo to really understand. remember, I thought it was near identical to the TH600 the first night. the next few days, I really started to how how special they were, so much, the TH600 just didn't compare (though it is still a very wonderful headphone, and easily my third fave closed headphone).
> 
> The TH900 is far and large one of the most well controlled headphones I've ever heard, even nexct to the best open backed headphones I've heard. The bass quality is basically a 9.75, quantity is a 9, mids are a 9/10 in quality, and easily separated from the bass. Treble is sparkly, and very clean as well. Please give me an example of ANY headphone that does bass better than the TH900 with the amount of low end is has, and I'll call BS. The control is otherwordly.
> 
> I think the isolation problems with the TH600 and TH900 are highly exaggerated. Yes, if someone is next to you, they will hear your audio. However, anyone like 15 feet away or another room won't have any issue with your Fostex. It is still functional as a closed headphone.


 
  
 I'm going to have to back you up on the statement about the Th600 & TH900.. Seeing how like you I had both in my possession for a short time.. the Th600 was great but lacking a bit but the TH900 is by far the best sounding headphone I've ever heard .


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

rich887 said:


> I'm going to have to back you up on the statement about the Th600 & TH900.. Seeing how like you I had both in my possession for a short time.. the Th600 was great but lacking a bit but the TH900 is by far the best sounding headphone I've ever heard .


 Do





mad lust envy said:


> I love the X2 even next to the TH900. If that don't say how much I believe in the X2's sound quality, then I don't know what else to tell you guys. It really is a headphone I can't see myself giving up, even next to the TH900. The TH900 takes more than a quick demo to really understand. remember, I thought it was near identical to the TH600 the first night. the next few days, I really started to how how special they were, so much, the TH600 just didn't compare (though it is still a very wonderful headphone, and easily my third fave closed headphone).
> 
> The TH900 is far and large one of the most well controlled headphones I've ever heard, even nexct to the best open backed headphones I've heard. The bass quality is basically a 9.75, quantity is a 9, mids are a 9/10 in quality, and easily separated from the bass. Treble is sparkly, and very clean as well. Please give me an example of ANY headphone that does bass better than the TH900 with the amount of low end is has, and I'll call BS. The control is otherwordly.
> 
> I think the isolation problems with the TH600 and TH900 are highly exaggerated. Yes, if someone is next to you, they will hear your audio. However, anyone like 15 feet away or another room won't have any issue with your Fostex. It is still functional as a closed headphone.


 Do you own one or you are just reviewing it? I saw for $1299 on Amazon and Razordog -$100 with coupon right? Any where else cheaper? It's worth buying for less but refurbished? Thanks.


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> Do
> Do you own one or you are just reviewing it? I saw for $1299 on Amazon and Razordog -$100 with coupon right? Any where else cheaper? It's worth buying for less but refurbished? Thanks.


 
  
 Email Brian at Razordog and see if he has wiggle room on the price.  Sometimes he's got coupons that aren't posted.


----------



## Rich887

Brian at Razordog sells full factory warranty used / returned Fostex headphones and others. He refers to them as " B " Stock. 
Used TH600 is $475 ish
Used TH900 is $1050ish

To answer you question I bought the TH600 and I wanted to try the TH900 so I bought that one also. After comparing them the TH900 is without a doubt the superior headphone. So I returned the TH600 bc Razordog offers 30day guarantee. Don't get me wrong the TH600 is a awesome set of cans and had I not been able to afford the TH900 I would have been happy. But like Mad L.E. has said much better than me the TH900 is a better headphone.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I love the X2 even next to the TH900. If that don't say how much I believe in the X2's sound quality, then I don't know what else to tell you guys. It really is a headphone I can't see myself giving up, even next to the TH900. The TH900 takes more than a quick demo to really understand. remember, I thought it was near identical to the TH600 the first night. the next few days, I really started to how how special they were, so much, the TH600 just didn't compare (though it is still a very wonderful headphone, and easily my third fave closed headphone).
> 
> The TH900 is far and large one of the most well controlled headphones I've ever heard, even nexct to the best open backed headphones I've heard. The bass quality is basically a 9.75, quantity is a 9, mids are a 9/10 in quality, and easily separated from the bass. Treble is sparkly, and very clean as well. Please give me an example of ANY headphone that does bass better than the TH900 with the amount of low end is has, and I'll call BS. The control is otherwordly.
> 
> I think the isolation problems with the TH600 and TH900 are highly exaggerated. Yes, if someone is next to you, they will hear your audio. However, anyone like 15 feet away or another room won't have any issue with your Fostex. It is still functional as a closed headphone.


 
  
 -clears throat- The ABYSS!
  
 That's not a fair comparison though, seeing as the price of one of those is...well, I'd rather use that money to put a down payment on a house if that puts it in prospective.


----------



## conquerator2

The HE1000 possibly... Same principle as the post above though...
X2, K7XX are probably top choices in those price brackets.


----------



## Torian

torian said:


> Why i moved my question to here is simple: eventhough i want them as an all-purpose headphones, their crucial job will be in competitive Arena FPS games. So which offers the bigger Soundstage, the better Positional locating, Details and other stuff that take place in games?


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Get the X2. Done.
> 
> The 880s don't have excellent depth. The MA900 is great, but a bit smoothed over. The X2 is well rounded in every regard.


 
 Since its fitting right now,
 What about the x2 compared vs the 7xx
 Thx for all help


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

Finally managed to read the full review lol only took me about 10 months. I now have a great sound setup for my ps4 thanks to MLE and everyone else who contributed to the thread.
 I use akg q701 > schiit vali > astro mixamp pro and a blue snowball mic. Just wanted to ask if anyone plays battlefield hardline what audio setting are you using ? I tried headphones and even through I can hear footsteps really well it's kind of hard to pin point where there coming from . I'm new to the bf usually a cod player so not sure what audio setup works best.
Also if I was wanting to change from Dolby surround to sbx what would I bet best to buy ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you DHP/SBX you'll always need to setup surround/home cinema aka 5.1/7.1 in games. That's a standard setting as DHP/SBX LIVE OFF multichannel sources as they virtualize a speaker room.
  
 If you want to "upgrade" to SBX then the X7 is the only choice. With the Vali in your inventory already you're kinda pulling off some Mad Love Entertainment my friend. 
  
 SOME MAD MAD LOVE


----------



## ParityBit

So based on suggestions here I picked up the X2 from Amazon (ships today!)  I do plan on picking up the V-MODA and Xbox One Stereo headset adapter.
  
 How does the virtual surround stuff work?  Do you buy a box and plug your headphones into it, and it into your controller? (PS4/XBO)   Does that box need power and does it just sit in your lap?
  
 This is all so new to me!
  
 Thanks


----------



## burritoboy9984

paritybit said:


> So based on suggestions here I picked up the X2 from Amazon (ships today!)  I do plan on picking up the V-MODA and Xbox One Stereo headset adapter.
> 
> How does the virtual surround stuff work?  Do you buy a box and plug your headphones into it, and it into your controller? (PS4/XBO)   Does that box need power and does it just sit in your lap?
> 
> ...




You'll need a surround sound decoder box as well. The Astro Mixamp is the most popular, if you want better sq and can spend 3-4x more, you can get an x7. That combined with the other 2 items you mentioned is all you need.

Erik


----------



## ParityBit

burritoboy9984 said:


> You'll need a surround sound decoder box as well. The Astro Mixamp is the most popular, if you want better sq and can spend 3-4x more, you can get an x7. That combined with the other 2 items you mentioned is all you need.
> 
> Erik


 
  
 So is the wireless Mixamp good?  The review on this page does not say too much.  Can you even buy it?


----------



## Stillhart

paritybit said:


> So is the wireless Mixamp good?  The review on this page does not say too much.  Can you even buy it?


 
  
 It is good, yes, but it's been discontinued for a while.  You can find them with some effort on eBay and sometimes on here.
  


yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Finally managed to read the full review lol only took me about 10 months. I now have a great sound setup for my ps4 thanks to MLE and everyone else who contributed to the thread.
> I use akg q701 > schiit vali > astro mixamp pro and a blue snowball mic. Just wanted to ask if anyone plays battlefield hardline what audio setting are you using ? I tried headphones and even through I can hear footsteps really well it's kind of hard to pin point where there coming from . I'm new to the bf usually a cod player so not sure what audio setup works best.
> Also if I was wanting to change from Dolby surround to sbx what would I bet best to buy ?


 
  
 Your two choices are an older Recon3D USB and the newer X7.  The Recon would make more sense for your setup since you already have the Vali.  The X7 would be overkill, but you could sell the Vali to defray the cost a bit.


----------



## ParityBit

stillhart said:


> It is good, yes, but it's been discontinued for a while.  You can find them with some effort on eBay and sometimes on here.


 
 Is it worth $90 bucks?   This is just so I can go wireless as I said.


----------



## Stillhart

paritybit said:


> Is it worth $90 bucks?   This is just so I can go wireless as I said.


 
  
 Well a brand new Mixamp that's not wireless will cost you over $100 and the reviews say it sounds worse than the 5.8.  So yeah, probably worth $90.


----------



## oscarc

paritybit said:


> Is it worth $90 bucks?   This is just so I can go wireless as I said.


 
 MLE has a MixAmp 5.8 for sale in the For Sale forums.


----------



## AxelCloris

oscarc said:


> MLE has a MixAmp 5.8 for sale in the For Sale forums.


 
  
 +1. Buy this one.
  
 That way MLE can buy the wireless Mixamp again in about 4 months.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

Thanks think I'll pick up the recon 3d would this sound better than the mixamp for competivite gaming ?


----------



## Stillhart

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Thanks think I'll pick up the recon 3d would this sound better than the mixamp for competivite gaming ?


 
 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  It generally comes down to preference on which DSP you prefer.  Try watching some of the demos on youtube to see which works best for your ears.
  
 If nothing else, the Recon does have a much cleaner amp and should pair well with your Vali.


----------



## conquerator2

I am selling my Recon3D for interested parties...


----------



## Evshrug

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Finally managed to read the full review lol only took me about 10 months. I now have a great sound setup for my ps4 thanks to MLE and everyone else who contributed to the thread.
> I use akg q701 > schiit vali > astro mixamp pro and a blue snowball mic. Just wanted to ask if anyone plays battlefield hardline what audio setting are you using ? I tried headphones and even through I can hear footsteps really well it's kind of hard to pin point where there coming from . I'm new to the bf usually a cod player so not sure what audio setup works best.
> Also if I was wanting to change from Dolby surround to sbx what would I bet best to buy ?




Congrats on reading the full review! Your setup is very similar to what I had last summer and fall, except I had a TurtleBeach DSS instead of the Mixamp (I didn't need the game/chat mixing, the DSS has a cleaner amp and a nice bass control dial).

Here's the "WHY" of BF4 positioning not sounding accurate with your setup: you're processing surround twice. BF4 is one of the very few games with an ok built-in headphone surround mode, the output is 2-channel audio which when played through headphones can imitate surround. When you feed 2-channel to a Mixamp and turn on that processing, it sees "stereo" input (instead of Dolby 5.1) and tries to "fake" surround by making it sound further away and adding reverb.

In short, only use processing once. I preferred setting BF4 to "Home Theater" then using my DSS' Dolby headphone processing, though you may prefer BF4's built-in headphone mode.

These days I use a Creative X7, which is a fairly big upgrade that works very well on PS4 (especially with my Snowball for USB mic duties). Occasionally I have some kerfluffles with Windows audio and the Creative control panel freezing, but most of the time it's a non-issue (set and forget). I only use my computer for gaming.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Occasionally I have some kerfluffles with Windows audio and the Creative control panel freezing, but most of the time it's a non-issue (set and forget). I only use my computer for gaming.


 
 Thank god, I thought the freezing was caused by my PC.


----------



## ParityBit

oscarc said:


> MLE has a MixAmp 5.8 for sale in the For Sale forums.


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> +1. Buy this one.
> 
> That way MLE can buy the wireless Mixamp again in about 4 months.


 
  
  
 I did, waiting for a reply!  Thanks for the advice.   I hope this thing will work well on my consoles.


----------



## mindbomb

evshrug said:


> Here's the "WHY" of BF4 positioning not sounding accurate with your setup: you're processing surround twice. BF4 is one of the very few games with an ok built-in headphone surround mode, the output is 2-channel audio which when played through headphones can imitate surround. When you feed 2-channel to a Mixamp and turn on that processing, it sees "stereo" input (instead of Dolby 5.1) and tries to "fake" surround by making it sound further away and adding reverb.
> 
> In short, only use processing once. I preferred setting BF4 to "Home Theater" then using my DSS' Dolby headphone processing, though you may prefer BF4's built-in headphone mode.


 
  
  
 I have bf4 for pc. It does not have a headphone surround mode built-in that I could find.


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> I have bf4 for pc. It does not have a headphone surround mode built-in that I could find.


 
 It does, in Audio settings choose Headphones and Surround


----------



## mindbomb

yethal said:


> It does, in Audio settings choose Headphones and Surround


 
  
 I just checked it. The speaker config options (stereo, surround) control whether 2.0 or 4.1 audio is output. The speaker type (hi-fi, home cinema, headphone) is just EQ changes. There is no dolby headphone type of thing available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes there is. Home theater is the 5.1 solution. Your system settings MUST be at 5.1/Dolby Digital (if on console). The Mixamp and stuff like it does NOT work properly if you send it two channel audio. Hence why using the headphone option on the game is 100% WRONG. YOU MUST SEND A SPEAKER TYPE SIGNAL BECAUSE THE MIXAMP IS THEN CONVERTING THAT TO SURROUND FOR HEADPHONES.


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> I just checked it. The speaker config options (stereo, surround) control whether 2.0 or 4.1 audio is output. The speaker type (hi-fi, home cinema, headphone) is just EQ changes. There is no dolby headphone type of thing available.


 
 Headphone speaker type, as confirmed by DICE, is their version of virtual surround sound that expands the dynamic range. If you send that through the Astro Mixamp, it will sound odd due to being put through virtual surround sound processing twice. If you put it on 4.1/5.1 and hi-fi/home cinema, you will be sending an actual surround sound signal to the astro mixamp that the astro mixamp is looking for. None of the speaker types are EQ changes.


----------



## Mach3

I own the early Astro Mixamp Pro which has the least noise. My impression, where do I start. Weakest part of this device is the amp section, by a huge margin. Noise floor and channel imbalance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is exactly why we like to nearly max out the volume pot (where there is no channel imbalance), and use it as a pre-amp to a proper headphone amp with real power.


----------



## mindbomb

pacotaco said:


> Headphone speaker type, as confirmed by DICE, is their version of virtual surround sound that expands the dynamic range. If you send that through the Astro Mixamp, it will sound odd due to being put through virtual surround sound processing twice. If you put it on 4.1/5.1 and hi-fi/home cinema, you will be sending an actual surround sound signal to the astro mixamp that the astro mixamp is looking for. None of the speaker types are EQ changes.


 
 No, the game doesn't seem to have virtual surround. The speaker types are EQ changes, with the lower quality options (tv, war tapes) having dynamic range compression as well. Where are you getting your information from?


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> No, the game doesn't seem to have virtual surround. The speaker types are EQ changes, with the lower quality options (tv, war tapes) having dynamic range compression as well. Where are you getting your information from?




I was partially mistaken. It isn't virtual surround, by it isn't EQ either. Each setting differs in dynamic range and how compressed the audio is. Wartapes is the most compressed and least dynamic, while HifI and headphone are the least compressed and have the largest dynamic range. The surround setting, if you set it to 5.1/surround, it will go to the Mixamp as that. If not, it won't do anything.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/forum/threadview/2979150493948035698/


----------



## rudyae86

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here but MLE and EVs know what they are talking about. I mean you have been given the answer to the right way of setting it up.
  
 Try home cinema/surround for a week and then switch back to headphone/surround and try to notice the difference.
  
 I use to game with headphone/surround and it did sound weird and thought it was the right way.
  
 After setting it to home cinema/surround it completely changed and sounded better.
  
 When you have it set up with home cinema/surround, the game is sending a 5.1 signal into the mixamp or what ever you have, which then converts it into processed virtual surround sound, in which you can hear it with your headphones. Simple as that.
  
 Dont over think it, just do it.
  
 Swoosh.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

What you guys think. Mint condition HD700 for $350! How are those for gaming anyways? Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

mindbomb said:


> I have bf4 for pc. It does not have a headphone surround mode built-in that I could find.



Might be just a console thing? But why go to the trouble and expense to create a feature, then strip it from a PC version? Double check!


----------



## Evshrug

badboybrazil said:


> What you guys think. Mint condition HD700 for $350! How are those for gaming anyways? Thanks!



Oh I liked 'em, and that's a good price. You get that thicker HD6xx sound in the mids without the veil, less brightness (and detail) than the HD800 (though still some people really notice a treble spike, I personally got used to it quickly compared to the Beyerdynamic spike which bothered my ears more and more). Decent soundstage, but not as good as AKG if both are amped with quality.

It's not a baby HD800, it's something different in sonic character yet shares some awesome styling from the flagship (looks cooler imo).


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> Might be just a console thing? But why go to the trouble and expense to create a feature, then strip it from a PC version? Double check!


 
  
 It increases dynamic range. When I was talking to Creative back when I was trying to figure out why the hell I couldn't switch the speaker settings to 5.1 (and earlier in this thread or the X7 thread this is mentioned to,) the customer support rep brought up that BF4 had its own driver settings that let it due its own 3D sound.
  
 I'm starting to like the ZMF Blackwood more and more for gaming. With all the ports open, the Skyrim ba-dum in the beginning goes very deep and rumbles a bit (since all ports make the bass a tad bit loose as opposed to it being tighter when they're closed. It's a subtle difference though, and the bass itself doesn't increase near as drastically as the Vibro does.) I'm still trying to mod the hell out of Skyrim while keeping it stable, but even with a 295x2 and 16gb of ram, getting 1440p to run smoothly is a bitch. But hey, at least I get screenshots like this:
  
 http://i.imgur.com/yR6X6Pd.jpg
  
 http://i.imgur.com/1h4vipT.jpg
  
 Though, there's still some things off about that, mainly why the hell is everything so pixelly and why won't mai water load. Ah well. Attempt number eight tonight I guess.


----------



## mindbomb

evshrug said:


> Might be just a console thing? But why go to the trouble and expense to create a feature, then strip it from a PC version? Double check!


 
 idk, some type of licencing issue? How strong is the evidence that it exists on the console version? I found on pc, the speaker config controlled 2.0 vs 4.1 output, and speaker type controlled equalizer and dynamic range compressor ( also evidenced in this dice slide http://i.imgur.com/gydJNq7.jpg ).  When I checked headphone + surround, I noticed 4.1 was still being output by the game, which indicates no special headphone surround mode in the game. I also checked with headphone+surround+dolby headphone and noticed no echoes characteristic of double headphone virtualization. The game sounded pretty similar on home cinema, hifi, and headphone.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

evshrug said:


> Oh I liked 'em, and that's a good price. You get that thicker HD6xx sound in the mids without the veil, less brightness (and detail) than the HD800 (though still some people really notice a treble spike, I personally got used to it quickly compared to the Beyerdynamic spike which bothered my ears more and more). Decent soundstage, but not as good as AKG if both are amped with quality.
> 
> It's not a baby HD800, it's something different in sonic character yet shares some awesome styling from the flagship (looks cooler imo).


great Thx for answering. I saw it for sell but was debating on each one I should buy. Fostex TH600 or that for music and gaming!


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> idk, some type of licencing issue? How strong is the evidence that it exists on the console version? I found on pc, the speaker config controlled 2.0 vs 4.1 output, and speaker type controlled equalizer and dynamic range compressor ( also evidenced in this dice slide http://i.imgur.com/gydJNq7.jpg ).  When I checked headphone + surround, I noticed 4.1 was still being output by the game, which indicates no special headphone surround mode in the game. I also checked with headphone+surround+dolby headphone and noticed no echoes characteristic of double headphone virtualization. The game sounded pretty similar on home cinema, hifi, and headphone.


 
  
 A company can't have a licensing issue caused by its own engine. That makes no sense.
  
 Go look up what Enhanced Stereo setting did for BF3. It added L/R channel crosstalk and certain settings, like Headphones and HiFi/Cinema, added a better, clearer dynamic range compared to the heavily compressed War Tapes and TV settings. None of those have anything to do with traditional EQ.
  
 For BF4, the names changed. However, if you set it to headphones and surround, it has the same channel crosstalk the previous game had. DICE has never come out and explain what the audio-settings did, and the popular consensus that makes the most sense is that enhanced stereo was added into headphones setting. Otherwise, it would be irrelevant next to HiFi (meant for two speakers) and Cinema (meant for more than one) as it would have no characteristics the other two didn't have already.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Hey, if I may divert the current drift of conversation...  I'll make this question broad.  Does anyone know of good microphone solutions that will work with both PC and console?  What I'm really wishing is that there's an easy way to get a usb mic to work with an Xbox One, but I think that isn't possible.  I'm just looking for a mic around $100 or less that I can use to chat on console and PC, preferably one that I can set on a table as opposed to a modmic that you have to wear headphones with, so I can easily use it with speakers if I so choose.
  
  BTW I suppose it's extremely difficult if at all possible to get the X2 for any less that $300?


----------



## mindbomb

pacotaco said:


> For BF4, the names changed. However, if you set it to headphones and surround, it has the same channel crosstalk the previous game had. DICE has never come out and explain what the audio-settings did, and the popular consensus that makes the most sense is that enhanced stereo was added into headphones setting. Otherwise, it would be irrelevant next to HiFi (meant for two speakers) and Cinema (meant for more than one) as it would have no characteristics the other two didn't have already.


 
  
 It seems the home cinema setting is maximum dynamic range with no EQ, and all the other settings differ by having less dynamic range or an EQ applied. This description was made in an interview: "For each of these settings, we define a window of dynamic range in dB, (which is smaller for TV speakers than home cinema), a compression setting (TV is mildly compressed, home cinema is not), and a master EQ setting (TV has bass cut and a high boost, home cinema has no master EQ applied.)" from http://www.waves.com/ben-minto-on-game-sound-design.
  
 So speaker type affects equalizer and dynamics, and speaker config effects 2.0 vs 4.1 output, and those are the only changes you can make afaik.


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> It seems the home cinema setting is maximum dynamic range with no EQ, and all the other settings differ by having less dynamic range or an EQ applied. This description was made in an interview: "For each of these settings, we define a window of dynamic range in dB, (which is smaller for TV speakers than home cinema), a compression setting (TV is mildly compressed, home cinema is not), and a master EQ setting (TV has bass cut and a high boost, home cinema has no master EQ applied.)" from http://www.waves.com/ben-minto-on-game-sound-design.
> 
> So speaker type affects equalizer and dynamics, and speaker config effects 2.0 vs 4.1 output, and those are the only changes you can make afaik.
 
 So I was two-thirds right on those settings. However, the headphone setting has been understood as "Enhanced Stereo + Headphone" from BF3. If you switch it to the 4.1 setting, you'd be sending the surround into the mixamp. If you set up the stereo setting with headphone, you'll get their enhanced stereo setting that has channel crosstalk that BF3 had. That is the experience I had on the console, anyway, and it shouldn't be any different from the PC release (which I have switched to earlier in the year.)


----------



## mindbomb

pacotaco said:


> So I was two-thirds right on those settings. However, the headphone setting has been understood as "Enhanced Stereo + Headphone" from BF3. If you switch it to the 4.1 setting, you'd be sending the surround into the mixamp. If you set up the stereo setting with headphone, you'll get their enhanced stereo setting that has channel crosstalk that BF3 had. That is the experience I had on the console, anyway, and it shouldn't be any different from the PC release (which I have switched to earlier in the year.)


 
 I'm not really sure what enhanced stereo was. I've found different people independently saying it made gun shots louder, so it makes me think it was also a dynamic range setting of some type. I've also seen it described as crossfeed or as virtual surround. I did play a round today with headphone+surround+dolby headphone and home cinema+surround+dolby headphone, with the windows mixer at 5.1 both times, and found the experiences very similar. If the headphone setting was going for a unique sound, I wasn't picking up on it.


----------



## PacoTaco

mindbomb said:


> I'm not really sure what enhanced stereo was. I've found different people independently saying it made gun shots louder, so it makes me think it was also a dynamic range setting of some type. I've also seen it described as crossfeed or as virtual surround. I did play a round today with headphone+surround+dolby headphone and home cinema+surround+dolby headphone, with the windows mixer at 5.1 both times, and found the experiences very similar. If the headphone setting was going for a unique sound, I wasn't picking up on it.




It's for people who don't have virtual SS, so it would be stereo and headphone setting with no Dolby headphone on. Part of the reason I'm arguing this point is because Creative had told me that BF4 has their own binaural stuff that I should turn my windows setting to 2.1 for (I was trying to find out why it wouldn't let me make windows 5.1, only to find out that it was because of the DSPs limitations.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

It's possible to swap the inside of TH600 with the TH900? Just curious! They are identical,right? maybe I get the TH600 and try to get the wood finish of the TH900 for it! Thanks. I also found this company! http://www.lawtonaudio.com/fostexupgradepackages.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The drivers are different. With different magnetic resistances. Not sure what swapping would do.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

mad lust envy said:


> The drivers are different. With different magnetic resistances. Not sure what swapping would do.


I was asking in general but Mostly about the Shell/Cup wood from TH900 would fit on the TH600?


----------



## chroniX

MLE what are your thoughts on the mids of the X2? I love the Q701 because of it's sparkly mids/treble perhaps even more so than for its soundstage. I've tried the DT 990 before which is more of a V-shaped sound and prefer the Q701 to that. Is the X2 V-shaped too? Are the mids recessed?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Hansotek

badboybrazil said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > The drivers are different. With different magnetic resistances. Not sure what swapping would do.
> ...




For the price of Mark L.'s mods, you might as well just get a TH900! His woody cups start at $655... Not including the price of the headphone. I mean, the guy knows what he's doing, but ouch!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chronix said:


> MLE what are your thoughts on the mids of the X2? I love the Q701 because of it's sparkly mids/treble perhaps even more so than for its soundstage. I've tried the DT 990 before which is more of a V-shaped sound and prefer the Q701 to that. Is the X2 V-shaped too? Are the mids recessed?
> 
> Thanks!




The mids are awesome on the X2. They're what I consider linear. Neither forward nor recessed, and a neutral tonality. There is no excess warmth or brightness to them. They sound basically what I consider neytrally toned in every sense of the word. Whomever said these are recessed mids are far too biased with some upfront mids, because they aren't recessed whatsoever. One of the best mids I've ever heard, without putting SPECIAL attention to them.

V-shaped would indicate that they sit lower than bass and treble, which is 100% untrue. The bass has a tilt upwards, but it doesn't detract from the mids. the treble is what I;d say dead even with the mids. So if anything, there is just a small bass hump, with the mids and treble being even with each other.

If you like mids, you'll like the X2. End of story.


----------



## catspaw

mad lust envy said:


> Yes there is. Home theater is the 5.1 solution. Your system settings MUST be at 5.1/Dolby Digital (if on console). The Mixamp and stuff like it does NOT work properly if you send it two channel audio. Hence why using the headphone option on the game is 100% WRONG. YOU MUST SEND A SPEAKER TYPE SIGNAL BECAUSE THE MIXAMP IS THEN CONVERTING THAT TO SURROUND FOR HEADPHONES.


 
 This is probably the first part that everyone got wrong .


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, people need to BURN INTO their minds that DHP/SBX/Headzone all recreate a VIRTUAL 5.1 SPEAKER ROOM so everything starts with 5.1, not headphones, not stereo. 
  
 BF3/4 need Home Cinema. In the ini you can make changes to maximum voices at a time. I think 65 was the maximum stable amount. Don't remember how many I set.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

I know lol make no sense in buying from him in my case! That was a example to show that it most be interchangeable!


----------



## ParityBit

I picked up the X2's from Amazon and man are they comfortable!  Tonight I hope to fool around with some games/music and see how they really hold up.
  
 Did I mention how comfortable they are?
  
 Any suggestions on a good case for them?  Not that I see myself travelling with them because they are so big, but some protection would be nice just in case.


----------



## conquerator2

shadowskulkerer said:


> Hey, if I may divert the current drift of conversation...  I'll make this question broad.  Does anyone know of good microphone solutions that will work with both PC and console?  What I'm really wishing is that there's an easy way to get a usb mic to work with an Xbox One, but I think that isn't possible.  I'm just looking for a mic around $100 or less that I can use to chat on console and PC, preferably one that I can set on a table as opposed to a modmic that you have to wear headphones with, so I can easily use it with speakers if I so choose.
> 
> BTW I suppose it's extremely difficult if at all possible to get the X2 for any less that $300?




The Blue Microphones Snowball is real nice. Or the Yeti, which is pretty much a 100. Either will do nicely for PC/PS 
Not sure bout Xbox.


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> The Blue Microphones Snowball is real nice. Or the Yeti, which is pretty much a 100. Either will do nicely for PC/PS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I can speak to the Yeti's quality. I used the Yeti Pro for recording several radio commercials in 2013. It's not the nicest mic I've owned but it's certainly less expensive than my SM7B since it can be used without an interface. But honestly for gaming purposes there's not much reason to get it over the Snowball unless you need a bidirectional pickup pattern.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I can speak to the Yeti's quality. I used the Yeti Pro for recording several radio commercials in 2013. It's not the nicest mic I've owned but it's certainly less expensive than my SM7B since it can be used without an interface. But honestly for gaming purposes there's not much reason to get it over the Snowball unless you need a bidirectional pickup pattern.




Yeah, I have the regular Yeti and its nice. Gotten it for some basic V-O trial.
Thats probably my max to spend on USB mics. Next would be XLR with an interface. Much better value, the only conn is the need for phantom power interface.
The Spark Digital USB was a consideration but... Yeah, for that kind of money I think it better to go XLR.
For gaming, the Snowball is great!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, guys, I'm a noob, for real. Now that I've sold the Mixamp, what's the cheap solution for ps chat? Unfortunately I forgot I only had one y cable, which I was using for my KSC35+clip on mic at work.

I guess I can just plug in the X2/Boompro to the Dualshock 4, but I doubt it's powerful enough to get a good enough volume. I could always ghetto rig the boompro to the KSC35, and use a female 3.5mm barrel from the Boompro's headphone end to the KSc35's 3.5mm input... this will look ridiculous, but I only talk during destiny anyways.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Guys, guys, I'm a noob, for real. Now that I've sold the Mixamp, what's the cheap solution for ps chat? Unfortunately I forgot I only had one y cable, which I was using for my KSC35+clip on mic at work.
> 
> I guess I can just plug in the X2/Boompro to the Dualshock 4, but I doubt it's powerful enough to get a good enough volume. I could always ghetto rig the boompro to the KSC35, and use a female 3.5mm barrel from the Boompro's headphone end to the KSc35's 3.5mm input... this will look ridiculous, but I only talk during destiny anyways.



Get a Syba off Amazon for $10?


----------



## conquerator2

Mad, I am not a fan of your current avatar. I demand you go back to cute anime pics ASAP


----------



## AxelCloris

My name is AxelCloris and I endorse the Go Go Dancer.


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> Mad, I am not a fan of your current avatar. I demand you go back to cute anime pics ASAP


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> My name is AxelCloris and I endorse the Go Go Dancer.


 
  
 I like this one too.  2-1 for the cute non-anime pic!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its actually a stylized fanart of:







Buttercup of PPG


----------



## AxelCloris

Bubbles is best girl.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Said no sane person ever. 

Buttercup is life.


----------



## AxelCloris

You've hurt her feelings. You're a terrible person.
  
 Tara Strong FTW.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> Said no sane person ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 +1
  
 Did you solve your chat issue, Mad?
  
 smile.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS


----------



## conquerator2

> Originally Posted by *Stillhart* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> 
> 
> I like this one too.  2-1 for the cute non-anime pic!


 
  


> Originally Posted by *AxelCloris* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> My name is AxelCloris and I endorse the Go Go Dancer.


 
 You don't get to vote.


----------



## Evshrug

I like mad's Avatar too, though I thought it might've been from the Transistor game somewhere.

Kinda annoyed that the white is from an elbow/glove, not like just a white bubble placed there for aesthetic reasons.


----------



## Change is Good

I like tacos


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> I like mad's Avatar too, though I thought it might've been from the Transistor game somewhere.
> 
> Kinda annoyed that the white is from an elbow/glove, not like just a white bubble placed there for aesthetic reasons.


 
  
 That game is so gorgeous...


----------



## conquerator2

I guess I'll leave it to you guys to back me up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Mad will probably change it OT anyway :]


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> That game is so gorgeous...


 
 I am gonna go start it now


----------



## RRod

stillhart said:


> That game is so gorgeous...


 
  
 Ugh, couldn't get into it. I hate when games just assume I like the characters at the start with no background.


----------



## Stillhart

rrod said:


> Ugh, couldn't get into it. I hate when games just assume I like the characters at the start with no background.


 
  
 I like stories that dump you in with no background and start using words that you have to figure out as you go along.  Think Dune, Clockwork Orange, Anathem, that sort of thing.  Combine that with good music and good art and it's a winner in my book...


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> evshrug said:
> 
> 
> > I like mad's Avatar too, though I thought it might've been from the Transistor game somewhere.
> ...


 
  
 Transistor is awesome!


----------



## Yethal

Perhaps not that much headphone related but considering the profile pic discussion, close enough. Does anybody here know of a place that sells unsold gaming/audio/video stuff? There has to be a warehouse, somewhere in this world filled with still good gear that for some reason was not sold.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> rrod said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh, couldn't get into it. I hate when games just assume I like the characters at the start with no background.
> ...


 
  
 "In medias res" (in the middle of things) would be the literary term. I love it as a plot device (when it's done right, at least). Critical backstory turns into puzzle pieces that unravel the mystery for the audience. It creates dissonance between the subjective and objective reality. What do the character's actions mean? She just killed a guy... why? Is this person good? Bad? It all becomes a mystery to unravel.

 Another good example (and relevant to the gaming thread!) would be this internet short based on the game Portal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4drucg1A6Xk

  
 Who is this woman? Why is she here? What are the notches on the wall? Why hasn't she escaped? By sticking the viewer in the middle, you can allow the backstory and main story unfold together.


----------



## PacoTaco

conquerator2 said:


> The Blue Microphones Snowball is real nice. Or the Yeti, which is pretty much a 100. Either will do nicely for PC/PS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Before I sold my Xbone recently, I'd just use the computer to redirect the playback of the Yeti's Mic to the controller, and it worked pretty well, albeit it is very sensitive to noises around you. IIRC, you can just plug the usb into the PS4.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

conquerator2 said:


> The Blue Microphones Snowball is real nice. Or the Yeti, which is pretty much a 100. Either will do nicely for PC/PS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well thanks for taking the time to reply.  I'm really trying to find out info for myself one what you can do to hook up mics with the xbox one.  There are ways. 
 They are all through the controller.  And they all use adapters and crap.  Looking for a way without extra junk...  Now while it wasn't possible with the 360 to
 the best of my knowledge, and you can't get both chat and sound directly through usb one xbox one, the controller uses usb for the headset adapter.  I wonder if plugging a usb mic into it would work.


----------



## PacoTaco

shadowskulkerer said:


> Well thanks for taking the time to reply.  I'm really trying to find out info for myself one what you can do to hook up mics with the xbox one.  There are ways.
> They are all through the controller.  And they all use adapters and crap.  Looking for a way without extra junk...  Now while it wasn't possible with the 360 to
> the best of my knowledge, and you can't get both chat and sound directly through usb one xbox one, the controller uses usb for the headset adapter.  I wonder if plugging a usb mic into it would work.


 
  
 I can tell you from personal experience, it won't. At least not with game sound. The proprietary connection they use on the controller is different from USB, and the Xbone does not have USB drivers in its OS. Bizarre, I know. The controller doesn't use a USB chip; it uses its own thing. Now, when DX12 and Windows X come out on the Xbone, it probably will as they're trying to position it to being as close to the PC as possible and have their own ecosystem between console, phones, and PC.
  
 Off topic in comparison to your post, but seeing as I've experienced both consoles now for an extended amount of time...The Xbox One may actually be end up being the better console in the long run, especially since Phil Spencer took over that division. Let me put it this way: Sony (being a Japanese Company) and Microsoft (being an American company) have two different philosophies in the way they see business. If you were to tell Sony that the Playstation sold 15 million copies and is raking in revenue but they're only in second place in overall game sales, they'd just shrug and say "Doesn't matter, made millions." Microsoft, as we're seeing now, is more or less adopting the mentality of "we're not in first place, and therefor not winning this competition nor making the most money." Thus, they put on their try-hard panties and HD800 with modmic, and start trying to regain the lead from Playstation.
  
 If you were to tell me in 2012 that we'd see Microsoft in second place and taking it personally despite not being the worst selling console of that generation, I would have laughed. But they are, and they're improving the system. Will it matter in the end? Who knows. It'll work out well for Playstation too though, as they seem more competition to push out more games than GoW 3 Remastered and Bloodborne this year.
  
 Sorry for the rant. I've gotten nine hours of sleep total since Monday. I figured keeping my brain active would keep me up while I'm at work.


----------



## conquerator2

pacotaco said:


> I can tell you from personal experience, it won't. At least not with game sound. The proprietary connection they use on the controller is different from USB, and the Xbone does not have USB drivers in its OS. Bizarre, I know. The controller doesn't use a USB chip; it uses its own thing. Now, when DX12 and Windows X come out on the Xbone, it probably will as they're trying to position it to being as close to the PC as possible and have their own ecosystem between console, phones, and PC.
> 
> Off topic in comparison to your post, but seeing as I've experienced both consoles now for an extended amount of time...The Xbox One may actually be end up being the better console in the long run, especially since Phil Spencer took over that division. Let me put it this way: Sony (being a Japanese Company) and Microsoft (being an American company) have two different philosophies in the way they see business. *If you were to tell Sony that the Playstation sold 15 million copies and is raking in revenue but they're only in second place in overall game sales, they'd just shrug and say "Doesn't matter, made millions." Microsoft, as we're seeing now, is more or less adopting the mentality of "we're not in first place, and therefor not winning this competition nor making the most money." Thus, they put on their try-hard panties and HD800 with modmic, and start trying to regain the lead from Playstation.*
> 
> ...


 
 Not saying I disagree, but I think Sony would do the same thing that MS is doing now if they were behind... They pretty much did that with the PS3. They started horribly and ended up outselling the X360 by some ~2 million consoles at the end, even though they launched a year easier...
 I mean, in general there's not much else you can do - you either level your game or end up like the Wii U...
 IMO.


----------



## PacoTaco

conquerator2 said:


> Not saying I disagree, but I think Sony would do the same thing that MS is doing now if they were behind... They pretty much did that with the PS3. They started horribly and ended up outselling the X360 by some ~2 million consoles at the end, even though they launched a year easier...
> I mean, in general there's not much else you can do - you either level your game or end up like the Wii U...
> IMO.


 

 That was a combination of things. The 360 didn't have a huge lead at all compared to the PS3, despite how people exaggerate it. They gambled that the blu-ray in the PS3 would help them win out, and they were only partially right. There's some other factors there, like the free psn, that helped them out a little bit, but they simply kept in pace with how they usually did business and they predictably grew steadily to the point of surpassing the 360. If they really cared about not being in first place as much as Microsoft, they would have super-try hard at beating the Wii.
  
 Microsoft could have maintained their lead if they weren't being ran by a guy who cared little about games at that time. They ultimately lost some of their consumer base simply because they had an abysmal fail rate (I believe some people quote it at 50%, but it was more at 30%. However, those Gen 1 360s were almost guaranteed to die after a couple of years.) They tried capitalizing on the casual market by releasing and focusing on the Kinect, while releasing stupid hardware revisions that had questionable design flaws like a missing optical output or lack of built-in wireless capabilities for years. It didn't help that they ******* suck at the non-US market that the PS3 started cornering. Seriously though, the PS3 did a lot better in other regions, which is what led to its overall success. They didn't need to push anything in the US, and, besides an optional subscription service that gave you free games that they were planning on implementing on a more mandatory basis, they didn't need to.
  
 This generation is different. Last generation, Microsoft was winning so handedly because they had their home market hook-line-and-sinker by almost double its competition (as Microsoft sold over 43 million to PS3's 21 million in the US.) They were literally dominating the US market so hard that it didn't ultimately matter to them how well Sony did everywhere else. This generation though? Even though they have slightly less powerful (the PS4 isn't all that more powerful despite what people tote) console and the huge backing of past purchasers of their system, they completely lost that lead. They had such ****ty PR during their console announcement and made such poor decisions on the console's UI that everything they lucked out on last generation went poof (though they were doing that to themselves seeing as their support for their own console was waning.) Sony, on the other hand, didn't have to do jack-crap and just kept doing what they were doing with no change. They literally gained the US market because Microsoft ****ed it up for themselves and, combined with their success in other regions, are now outselling the One two to one overall.
  
 So, you have a company that wasn't even losing in any stretch of the imagination on their home turf now being beaten by a couple hundred thousand (I'm not kidding, the difference in the US isn't all that much) units, but their lack of worldwide recognition and foothold in those markets put them way the hell behind what numbers they should have had by now. So now the Xbone, despite having a pace that outdoes past generations around this time, are very much in second place. They're doing fairly well and making money, just not as well as the competition. Hence why they're trying hard now and restructuring, as they actually need to put effort into ALL the markets as opposed to just the US that they didn't have to do much to take over.
  
 Then you have the Wii-U. Despite the doom and gloom that people try passing it off as, it is only a failure if you compare it to the Wii's sales. They're actually only slightly behind Microsoft overall, and people that have a Wii-U tend to have a higher adoption rate game-wise than either of those companies (if you look at it percentage-wise.) They also don't sell consoles at a loss, so they aren't exactly relying on games to gain revenue like the other two companies do (the xbone and ps4 are sold at a loss.) The Wii-U is a failure in the public eyes and in the marketing scheme of things, but it isn't doing all that bad in reality. Even if you bring up the fact that the Vita has been selling more than the WiiU, that's because of Japan moving towards more of a mobile market and it has been out a lot longer. However, the revenue isn't there for the Vita as the there's only really a small selection of hit titles (which is the main reason the Vita is actually a failure and the WiiU isn't doing bad enough to be more than made fun of.) Plus, Nintendo doesn't actually seem to care all that much, seeing as they have the juggernaut known as the 3DS that is still doing amazingly in a market that smart phones were apparently being deemed to have taken over years ago. Hell, it has sold over triple the amount of consoles the PS4 has, and it definitely isn't sold at a loss at all.
  
 TL;DR: Sony was never that much in last place last generation, as they had the world market. The Xbone, however, is losing in the US and the world, which makes it second place by a large margin and making them try to actually get people to buy the damn thing. The WiiU isn't actually in dire straights, but Nintendo gives no ****s as the 3DS dominates everything anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Transistor is amazing. I listen to the soundtrack more than the rest of my music. Truth.

I still think Bastion was a better game, gameplay-wise. Both are equal for me in terms of story and characters. I love Red. And yes, I've used an avatar oe two of hers already, lol.

My last one was actually Ryoko fanart from Tenchi Muyo.


----------



## RRod

stillhart said:


> I like stories that dump you in with no background and start using words that you have to figure out as you go along.  Think Dune, Clockwork Orange, Anathem, that sort of thing.  Combine that with good music and good art and it's a winner in my book...


 
  
 I love Dune; one of my fave books. Note I didn't say I hate being dropped into the middle of the story: I said I don't like it when the story assumes I'm in love with the main character. I didn't care a whit about her at the start and the game never made me, which is the opposite of what Herbert does for me in Dune. I guess I'm not gaga over the music enough ^_^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the X2/Boompro works just fine off the DS4, for moderate volume listening with voice chat. That's good enough for me for Destiny, anyways. Since I don't really voice chat otherwise, I'll stick to just this for the time being.

Anyone interested in a very good headphone for cheap? I bought my Ultrasone HFI-15G for $100, and I'd be willing to sell for $50. I really don't use it, and I feel it deserves a good home for someone who likes an open, bassy, ULTRA comfortable headphone. It's stuck in limbo due to being too insensitive for my work use, and I already have the X2 and TH900 for home.

It scored high on my guide, because that's how much I like it.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> So the X2/Boompro works just fine off the DS4, for moderate volume listening with voice chat. That's good enough for me for Destiny, anyways. Since I don't really voice chat otherwise, I'll stick to just this for the time being.
> 
> Anyone interested in a very good headphone for cheap? I bought my Ultrasone HFI-15G for $100, and I'd be willing to sell for $50. I really don't use it, and I feel it deserves a good home for someone who likes an open, bassy, ULTRA comfortable headphone. It's stuck in limbo due to being too insensitive for my work use, and I already have the X2 and TH900 for home.
> 
> It scored high on my guide, because that's how much I like it.




Hey MLE-

Are you playing Destiny on Playstation Network? I'm on there a good 4-5 nights a week. I wonder if we've ever crossed paths on there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm under Sin_Crimson.

I just started playing Destiny again about 2 weeks ago, after a good break (i stopped playing the first week of the DLC).


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> I'm under Sin_Crimson.
> 
> I just started playing Destiny again about 2 weeks ago, after a good break (i stopped playing the first week of the DLC).




Right on! I'm under bassman53211. 

You'll most likely see me romping around the solar system with my level 30 lady Bladedancer.

I have a question for you: do you use the voice channel when you run strikes with randoms? I've never really done this, but I see people enter the voice channel occasionally. As another player, do you find either approach to be a faux pas? I've been kinda wondering about this for a while.


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Right on! I'm under bassman53211.
> 
> You'll most likely see me romping around the solar system with my level 30 lady Bladedancer.
> 
> I have a question for you: do you use the voice channel when you run strikes with randoms? I've never really done this, but I see people enter the voice channel occasionally. As another player, do you find either approach to be a faux pas? I've been kinda wondering about this for a while.


 
  
 There's a reason you have to opt-in.  If you don't want to hear other folks, turn it off.  lol
  
 Mad, I didn't realize you started playing again.  What brought you back?


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Right on! I'm under bassman53211.
> ...




Oh, I know. What I'm saying is I've never been one to opt in to the voice channel. I've really been a single player campaign guy up until Destiny. I was just making sure I wasn't acting like a d-bag in the social gaming world. Does that make sense? I think your response sort of answered my question though.  Are you playing Destiny on PSN too?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Oh, I know. What I'm saying is I've never been one to opt in to the voice channel. I've really been a single player campaign guy up until Destiny. I was just making sure I wasn't acting like a d-bag in the social gaming world. Does that make sense? I think your response sort of answered my question though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I stopped playing around the same time Mad did and I haven't gone back yet.  That DLC really rubbed me wrong.  I'll wait for Destiny 2.
  
 But yeah, no need to opt into voice in Destiny.  Many folks either don't have voice or are in party chat anyhow.  In a raid you probably should at least be listening, but for normal stuff it's fine.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, I know. What I'm saying is I've never been one to opt in to the voice channel. I've really been a single player campaign guy up until Destiny. I was just making sure I wasn't acting like a d-bag in the social gaming world. Does that make sense? I think your response sort of answered my question though.  Are you playing Destiny on PSN too?
> ...




Good tips. Thank you! I think I just like the idea of being a mysterious mute in this game for some weird reason, lol. Though, I might have to start opting in on the higher level weekly strikes. Those are tough and can get discombobulated quickly... And I need to knock some out to get an exotic pistol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> There's a reason you have to opt-in.  If you don't want to hear other folks, turn it off.  lol
> 
> Mad, I didn't realize you started playing again.  What brought you back?




I didn't have much to play lately, and when I was told Xur had the option to upgrade Gjallahorn, it made me jump back in.

Tonight was a hell of a night for me. I literally got all the Hard Mode primary weapon drops between tonight and last night. ALL of them, including the Crux of Crota to upograde to the exotic Necrochasm (which I already had the Eidolon Ally waiting for the upgrade).

I basically got every single hard mode drop in 2 raids, lol. I haven't even received all my armor for any of my 3 characters. And here I am STILL wanting Praedyth's Timepiece.  I did get the super elusive Atheon's Eopilogue last week (after ALL our raids, I never had one). Ironically, the next day, I got my first Word of Crota (out of 2), which is a void primary, making Atheon's Epilogue useless now for Nightfalls. :rolleyes:

So from now on, I only really have to do normal, though running on hard yields more chances, I guess.

Man, the Mythoclast is a much better exotic than the Necrochasm. What was Bungie thinking with that weapon? It sucks! hardest thing to get, yet one of the worst raid drops ever.


----------



## AxelCloris

You're making me want to pick up the game again and give the DLC a try.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> You're making me want to pick up the game again and give the DLC a try.


 
  
 If I picked it up again, it would only be to hang out with you guys.  We need another good social game...


----------



## AxelCloris

Rainbow Six: Siege isn't out until December. Bah. That'll be an awesome group game.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> Rainbow Six: Siege isn't out until December. Bah. That'll be an awesome group game.


 
  
 That looks... not my style.  The Division is the next one I'm psyched for.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > There's a reason you have to opt-in.  If you don't want to hear other folks, turn it off.  lol
> ...




That's kinda how they keep me into it too... I'm usually playing so I can get something from Xur.

I also had some good drops last night. I found an exotic weapon quest drop randomly on the Archer's Line while trolling for some easy Blades of Crota kills.

Now I'm going to be working on that Bad Juju quest for a while...


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > Rainbow Six: Siege isn't out until December. Bah. That'll be an awesome group game.
> ...




I'm excited fot the Division too. I feel like I've been waiting for that to come out for forever!


----------



## rudyae86

The Division feels like a casual slightly competitive game while Siege is more competitive like gameplay. I want both lol


----------



## Change is Good

Dying Light should be a fun option for you guys to play together and socialize on PS4. You can pretty much play the whole campaign with four people, plus there is the possibility of a fifth player invading the game at night as a zombie.

Edit: Trust me, you'll enjoy yourselves much more than doing the same dreadful things over and over in Destiny.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Rainbow Six: Siege isn't out until December. Bah. That'll be an awesome group game.


 
 I'd probably drop every other FPS game when it comes out. It's a shame that Ubisoft is making it. After their last few disasters it will be tough trusting them again.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

K...  So it looks like the simple path here is I can get the X2 and use it with any PC or console, but I'm gonna have to buy a xbox chat headset as well because there is no official plain mic, at least if I want one of them to be good.


----------



## Stillhart

For the next time MLE updates the guide:  The Oppo PM-3 works with the Boom-pro.  I'll try to hop on Destiny later to test the sound for gaming.


----------



## taropaste

stillhart said:


> For the next time MLE updates the guide:  The Oppo PM-3 works with the Boom-pro.  I'll try to hop on Destiny later to test the sound for gaming.


 

 I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the PM-3 for gaming. I've been considering it ever since CanJam. Didn't know it works with the Boom-pro which is a nice bonus.


----------



## Stillhart

taropaste said:


> I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the PM-3 for gaming. I've been considering it ever since CanJam. Didn't know it works with the Boom-pro which is a nice bonus.


 
  
 They're definitely more on the "fun" side of the spectrum.  Generous bass and laid back highs make for great music listening but not great sound whoring.  They're also closed so they're not going to give you much of a soundstage; it's pretty decent for a closed, but my regular gaming can is a Q701 and it's not even close.
  
 They do sound awesome for music and they're insanely easy to drive (especially for a planar).  There's a loaner program you might want to look into if you're still on the fence.


----------



## Yethal

shadowskulkerer said:


> K...  So it looks like the simple path here is I can get the X2 and use it with any PC or console, but I'm gonna have to buy a xbox chat headset as well because there is no official plain mic, at least if I want one of them to be good.


 
 Buy an Xbox Headset adapter instead and 3.5mm 4 pole splitter and use Your own instead.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I really need to log in here more often. Probably haven't dived in for my wallet's sake, it's not looking too good lately.
  


stillhart said:


> Oh and the Smyth Realizer is flat out amazing.  I could have SWORN there was an invisible speaker on the wall 5 feet in front of me and when I turned my head, it stayed there.  It was so realistic that it weirded me out; I had this weird cognitive dissonance between what I was hearing and what I was seeing.  I had to take off the headphones for a second to make sure there wasn't actually a speaker like under the table or something that I didn't notice.  It was mind blowing.
> 
> This tech in gaming would be such a competitive advantage.  Imagine hearing something from the side and turning your head just a little to zero in on the sound, instead of turning your character in game.  If you guess wrong, you don't lose those valuable fractions of a second to turn back the other way.  Not to mention just the improvement in overall immersion.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've considered the Smyth Realiser the ideal to strive for when it comes to speaker simulation systems, but I haven't been in the position to audition one, let alone outright buy one. Maybe I'll consider it when I can afford to go whole hog with Stax again and keep it...
  
 If they can bring down the cost significantly, that'll help. I just want to be sure they keep the HDMI input, that's kinda critical if I'm going to get proper surround sound out of my Wii U.
  
 In other news, I found out that the tech behind Aureal A3D still lives on outside of Creative's hands...just not for gaming applications.
  
 Maybe someone can talk them into licensing it out as an audio middleware plugin, much as AstoundSound exists for FMOD and Wwise. We need more options in this market.


----------



## NAWilson9

I'm looking into getting a new pair of headphones for gaming, mainly CS:GO but FPS's in general, and I'm pretty sure I have it narrowed down to either the AD700X or AD900X. I initially considered the Q701's and K612's but decided against them for two reasons. The first being that I was put off by peoples complaints about the comfort of the Q701's headband. The second reason was that I do not own a portable amp, only a pro audio interface, and so I want the ability to drive the headphones adequately with my interface when I'm home and my laptop when I'm on the go. Now, the primary reason I'm considering the the AD900x's is because they =2661&graphID[]=3061&graphID[]=2931&scale=30]have a bit more bass. I understand that this can decrease the positioning ability of them as a result but I'm wondering if anyone could roughly quantify how much? If you clicked the link I added, you'll see that I added the Q701 graph to it as well. The reason for this was that the Q701's also have fantastic positional audio and yet their bass is even higher than the AD900x's. I understand that you can't directly make conclusions about sound stage and positioning knowing that, but it had me wondering how much of a difference there would actually be between the AD700X and AD900X. Basically, the primary purpose of these headphones would be competetive gaming, but it'd be nice if they didn't suck for everything else.


----------



## mindbomb

I imagine the ad700x and ad900x are similar for gaming. Sometimes, the ad900x doesn't cost that much more too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Heard various times that the 900 variants have worse positional accuracy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

nawilson9 said:


> I'm looking into getting a new pair of headphones for gaming, mainly CS:GO but FPS's in general, and I'm pretty sure I have it narrowed down to either the AD700X or AD900X. I initially considered the Q701's and K612's but decided against them for two reasons. The first being that I was put off by peoples complaints about the comfort of the Q701's headband. The second reason was that I do not own a portable amp, only a pro audio interface, and so I want the ability to drive the headphones adequately with my interface when I'm home and my laptop when I'm on the go. Now, the primary reason I'm considering the the AD900x's is because they =2661&graphID[]=3061&graphID[]=2931&scale=30]have a bit more bass. I understand that this can decrease the positioning ability of them as a result but I'm wondering if anyone could roughly quantify how much? If you clicked the link I added, you'll see that I added the Q701 graph to it as well. The reason for this was that the Q701's also have fantastic positional audio and yet their bass is even higher than the AD900x's. I understand that you can't directly make conclusions about sound stage and positioning knowing that, but it had me wondering how much of a difference there would actually be between the AD700X and AD900X. Basically, the primary purpose of these headphones would be competitive gaming, but it'd be nice if they didn't suck for everything else.


 
  
 Personally I would take the AD900X over the AD700(X) just because the 700s are so bass light it's a turn off for music and movies.
 And I still think the AD900X would serve fairly well for FPS gaming.


----------



## hilyou

I'm interested in buying a Creative SoundBlaster X7 with a pair of Philips Fidelio X2s and either a BoomPro mic or a ModMic for movies, music and gaming on a PC and PS4.
  
 Originally I was going to go with a Mixamp Pro and the Schiit 2 Uber stack but the X7 is more convenient, more features and has less hiss than the Mixamp Pro.
  
 What I want to know is what the headphone amp on the X7 in Direct Mode is comparable to? Is it as good as the Schiit Magni 2, O2+ODAC, Schiit Magni 2 Uber, Fiio E09K etc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

More akin to the E9k power with Magni-like sound


----------



## Stillhart

namelesspfg said:


> I really need to log in here more often. Probably haven't dived in for my wallet's sake, it's not looking too good lately.
> 
> 
> I've considered the Smyth Realiser the ideal to strive for when it comes to speaker simulation systems, but I haven't been in the position to audition one, let alone outright buy one. Maybe I'll consider it when I can afford to go whole hog with Stax again and keep it...
> ...


 
  
 I really don't know why other companies don't use HDMI.  I assume it's because they have to license the tech (which adds to the cost) and also because the designs are ancient, from back before HDMI became ubiquitous.  Smyth already uses HDMI, so I don't think they're really going to run into any issues keeping it in the device.  Since their focus is really the movie experience, it makes sense too.
  
 Man, I hope they do decide to do something in gaming.  They had a (non functional) prototype device there that was aiming for the $1600 price point, IIRC.  That's a huge step in the right direction.  If they can do that, who knows...


----------



## Sam21

I have the A700x and like it more than I like the HD598


----------



## Sam21

My G109-S should be here on Monday , if you want power buy this one... : 
  
  

          18.8 Veff in 600 ohms = 590 mW  > 13.8 Veff in 100 ohms = 1900 mW  > 10.7 Veff in 50 ohms = 2300 mW  > 7.8 Veff in 50 ohms = 1900 mW  > 3.7 Veff in 16 ohms = 410 mW


----------



## Change is Good

Streaming some ng+ Bloodborne while I have nothing else to do this Easter Sunday...


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Streaming some ng+ Bloodborne while I have nothing else to do this Easter Sunday...




I wish I could watch on my phone but I have little data left 

Being at the park with family and having too much food is going to get me sleepy very soon. I even forgot my Momentums at home, booo


----------



## Change is Good

Had to stop broadcating for a few minutes. Back live...

Edit: about to fight the final boss but waiting for people to rejoin, first.


----------



## Tonza

I've been meaning to get a surround processor for my X1's and I think now is the time. However, I am not quite sure which is the best buy. I could get the DSS/DSS2 which is the cheapest (around 50 euros here) or the new Mixamp Pro from Astro (130 euros). I noticed that a store here is selling the Astro A30 with a Mixamp for 135 but I am not sure what version of the Mixamp is included. It would seem silly to pay 130 for the Mixamp only even if it is newer version when 5 euros more I could get a headset as well. (Would probably sell them to offset the cost)


----------



## LordLex

What do you think are the best closed headphones for stereo gaming and music? I want them to have a balance sound and a good soundstage for being closed, any suggestions?
Thank you beforehand


----------



## Yethal

lordlex said:


> What do you think are the best closed headphones for stereo gaming and music? I want them to have a balance sound and a good soundstage for being closed, any suggestions?
> Thank you beforehand


 
 Try the first post on this thread


----------



## LordLex

Yes, for what I have already read the alpha dog and dt770 are the best closed headphones, but I wanted to know if anyone else agrees with his opinion or suggest me other headphones.


----------



## CapitaFK

lordlex said:


> Yes, for what I have already read the alpha dog and dt770 are the best closed headphones, but I wanted to know if anyone else agrees with his opinion or suggest me other headphones.


 
  
 Considering you want a balanced sound, the DT770s are anything but.


----------



## Hansotek

lordlex said:


> Yes, for what I have already read the alpha dog and dt770 are the best closed headphones, but I wanted to know if anyone else agrees with his opinion or suggest me other headphones.




Here are a few more closed back HPs to consider: 

Flagship tier ($1,000+)
Fostex TH900
LFF Paradox Slants
Audeze LCD-XC
Denon AH-D7000

Upper Tier ($500-$1,000)
Denon AH-D5000
Audeze EL-8 (closed verson)
Alpha Prime
Alpha Dog
Fostex TH-600
ZMF Blackwood
ZMF Vibro
Thunderpants

Mid tier ($300-$500)
Sure SRH-1540
Mad Dogs
Denon AH-D2000
Oppo PM-3
Ultrasone Pro900

Budget tier (below $300)
Beyerdynamic DT770
Soundmagic HP150
Soundmagic HP100
ATH-MSR-7
NAD Viso HP50

*Edit - A couple of additions.


----------



## LordLex

Thank your for the list, I'll take a look on some other headphones on it. Can anybody give me further infirmation on Mrspeakers headphone? Are they overpriced?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Here are a few more closed back HPs to consider:
> 
> Flagship tier ($1,000+)
> Fostex TH900
> ...


 
  
 You left out the HP100/150 and PM-3.


----------



## vlenbo

stillhart said:


> You left out the HP100/150 and PM-3.



And the ath-msr7.


----------



## Stillhart

The TH-600 is back on Massdrop for $520 at lowest price.  Not sure how that compares to Razordog's pricing...
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fosetx-th-600-headphones


----------



## Hansotek

vlenbo said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > You left out the HP100/150 and PM-3.
> ...


 
  
 lol. Yeah. It's a bit of a rabbit hole...
  
 And the Ultrasone Pro900.
 And the NAD Viso HP50.
 And the Smeggy Thunderpants.

 ... We could go on & on, right?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> lol. Yeah. It's a bit of a rabbit hole...
> 
> And the Ultrasone Pro900.
> And the NAD Viso HP50.
> ...


 
  
 My point was that the HP100 is recommended quite often as a good closed gaming can and it's in the $200 price range.  The PM-3 is still too new to say that about so I will give you that one.
  
 But the HP100 would have been my first recommendation and it wasn't on your list.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > lol. Yeah. It's a bit of a rabbit hole...
> ...


 
  
 Well, now it is.


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Well, now it is.


 
   :-D


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Dying Light should be a fun option for you guys to play together and socialize on PS4. You can pretty much play the whole campaign with four people, plus there is the possibility of a fifth player invading the game at night as a zombie.
> 
> Edit: Trust me, you'll enjoy yourselves much more than doing the same dreadful things over and over in Destiny.




Yeah, I was watching a Twitch gameplay stream of this and it looked really fun. Particularly the weapon crafting, parkour, and grappling hook gameplay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stillhart said:


> The TH-600 is back on Massdrop for $520 at lowest price.  Not sure how that compares to Razordog's pricing...
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fosetx-th-600-headphones




Razordog sells it for $500 total with their coupon code.

If you got $500 to spare, the TH600 is the closed headphone to get, especially if you want a huge soundstage for gaming, and some massive depth in bass.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > The TH-600 is back on Massdrop for $520 at lowest price.  Not sure how that compares to Razordog's pricing...
> ...


 
  
 I also just saw one for $470 OBO on e-bay in "Used - Like New" condition. There's one day left if someone wanted to take a shot at an offer on that... might be able to get it cheaper. Of course, no warranty when you buy used... if you're into the whole warranty thing.


----------



## inseconds99

hansotek said:


> I also just saw one for $470 OBO on e-bay in "Used - Like New" condition. There's one day left if someone wanted to take a shot at an offer on that... might be able to get it cheaper. Of course, no warranty when you buy used... if you're into the whole warranty thing.


 
 Basically $9 more for bstock on razordog and you get a warranty.


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I also just saw one for $470 OBO on e-bay in "Used - Like New" condition. There's one day left if someone wanted to take a shot at an offer on that... might be able to get it cheaper. Of course, no warranty when you buy used... if you're into the whole warranty thing.
> ...


 
  
 It's the OBO part that piques my interest. Best offer could end up being $430 or $440 or something... it's a roll of the dice, but that could be $50-$60 less than the $489 B-stock. Sometimes you get lucky. 
  
  
 Razordog is the safe bet, but different buyers value different things.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

hansotek said:


> It's the OBO part that piques my interest. Best offer could end up being $430 or $440 or something... it's a roll of the dice, but that could be $50-$60 less than the $489 B-stock. Sometimes you get lucky.
> 
> 
> Razordog is the safe bet, but different buyers value different things.


 So what's the conclusion review on The TH600 lol? I got lost because Mad jumped to TH900 and didn't conclude the TH600 review (or He did) where it stands? It's worth $500/$600? It's a big difference from the TH900? What would the score be? TYLL HERTSENS Wrote me a é-mail saying that bought are too Bright for his taste!


----------



## Stillhart

Tyll really doesn't like anything even close to bright.  Neutral is too bright for him.  That's why he doesn't review the HiFiMan headphones.
  
 Point being, you need to get an idea of his tastes to understand if it will be too bright for YOU.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

stillhart said:


> Tyll really doesn't like anything even close to bright.  Neutral is too bright for him.  That's why he doesn't review the HiFiMan headphones.
> 
> Point being, you need to get an idea of his tastes to understand if it will be too bright for YOU.


Lol I was like this guys takes 5 to 10 min to review headphones on his Channel and that was the best answer he could give me? Lol Well. Thx buddy for the input!


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> Lol I was like this guys takes 5 to 10 min to review headphones on his Channel and that was the best answer he could give me? Lol Well. Thx buddy for the input!


 
  
 Well to be fair, I don't go into depth about headphones I don't like either.  The EL-8 closed?  Listened for like 10 seconds and I knew I wasn't interested.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

stillhart said:


> Well to be fair, I don't go into depth about headphones I don't like either.  The EL-8 closed?  Listened for like 10 seconds and I knew I wasn't interested.


 Well I though he review Headphones in general independent if he likes then or not. He even reviewed the Denon series http://youtu.be/UG6tfCCZgGc


----------



## Stillhart

badboybrazil said:


> Well I though he review Headphones in general independent if he likes then or not. He even reviewed the Denon series http://youtu.be/UG6tfCCZgGc


 
  
 He occasionally reviews headphones he doesn't like, especially if they're very good despite his personal tastes.  But the fact that he farmed out the HE-560 review to someone else says something.  Like, that's a very very good sounding headphone that a ton of people like and he can't bring himself to listen to it enough to give it a fair review.  I don't even think it's all THAT bright!  lol


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> badboybrazil said:
> 
> 
> > Well I though he review Headphones in general independent if he likes then or not. He even reviewed the Denon series http://youtu.be/UG6tfCCZgGc
> ...




Well, it's ljokerl's primary headphone, and he's probably done just as many headphone reviews as Tyll. It kinda made sense to have him do the review on the HE-560.


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Well, it's ljokerl's primary headphone, and he's probably done just as many headphone reviews as Tyll. It kinda made sense to have him do the review on the HE-560.


 
  
 Fine, but that doesn't really change my point.  Tyll doesn't like them and didn't want to review them himself, even though he knows they're good.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

stillhart said:


> He occasionally reviews headphones he doesn't like, especially if they're very good despite his personal tastes.  But the fact that he farmed out the HE-560 review to someone else says something.  Like, that's a very very good sounding headphone that a ton of people like and he can't bring himself to listen to it enough to give it a fair review.  I don't even think it's all THAT bright!  lol


It makes sense because anyone would expect him to not just review the Fostex TH900/600 but also compare it with the Denons. He knows that it would attract a lot viewer since a lot people wonders about it!


----------



## Hansotek

badboybrazil said:


> stillhart said:
> 
> 
> > Tyll really doesn't like anything even close to bright.  Neutral is too bright for him.  That's why he doesn't review the HiFiMan headphones.
> ...




I haven't tried the TH-600, but analysis of the CSD waterfall plot shows a ringing at 6.5khz, which is probably the brightness Tyll is referring to. I'd be willing to bet somebody on head-fi has figured out a mod ot fix this by now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be fair, I'm the same. I don't want to put up reviews of headphones that aren't suited to my taste. It's bhard to judge, since obviously othersbwill find it better than I do. As for the TH600 review, that will be quite a wait. In short, yes its awesome, and yes the TH900 is even better. Both are stellar for gaming with bass that goes deep but does not detract from soundwhoring due to a sense of separation between bass and mids (more so on the TH900 by a stretch). Both are tuned towards fun, but are very capable for competitive. 

In the case of the TH900, its so fast in the bass, it betrays what the graphs imply. Its not the bass monster graphs show. Yes, it has some epic bass, but not basshead bass. Th600 has more of a standard tyoe of bassy bass you can expeft from bass heavy headphones. Neither are boomy or over the top.

Also, from my own tests, there is NOTHING problematic at 6.5khz. Its 5khz on the pair I had that was a bit iffy on frequency tests. In normal use though, i didnt have much of a problem. Certainly something more problematic in controlled testing than general use.


----------



## Change is Good

What happened to the 1540 review?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's gonna be quite a wait too. It's in their hands when it gets published.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it's ljokerl's primary headphone, and he's probably done just as many headphone reviews as Tyll. It kinda made sense to have him do the review on the HE-560.
> ...




Yeah, now that I re-read it, it was kinda hard to tell what you meant by that last comment.. I was just sticking up for ljokerl, whose body of work on Head-fi, Innerfidelity and The Headphone List has been a huge contribution to the community. He is arguably the #1 authority on IEMs in the audiophile community. So it's not as if Tyll was passing it off to some lackey. Tyll definitely sees ljokerl as an equal. In retrospect, you probably knew all that already and I just read your comment the wrong way. Now, I think what you meant was he passed them off in the interest of publishing an objective review, yes?


----------



## Stillhart

hansotek said:


> Yeah, now that I re-read it, it was kinda hard to tell what you meant by that last comment.. I was just sticking up for ljokerl, whose body of work on Head-fi, Innerfidelity and The Headphone List has been a huge contribution to the community. He is arguably the #1 authority on IEMs in the audiophile community. So it's not as if Tyll was passing it off to some lackey. Tyll definitely sees ljokerl as an equal. In retrospect, you probably knew all that already and I just read your comment the wrong way. Now, I think what you meant was he passed them off in the interest of publishing an objective review, yes?


 
  
 Yep, he realized that they deserved a review from someone who could appreciate them AND write a review worthy of putting up on his site.  No slight towards joker intended, of course.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah, now that I re-read it, it was kinda hard to tell what you meant by that last comment.. I was just sticking up for ljokerl, whose body of work on Head-fi, Innerfidelity and The Headphone List has been a huge contribution to the community. He is arguably the #1 authority on IEMs in the audiophile community. So it's not as if Tyll was passing it off to some lackey. Tyll definitely sees ljokerl as an equal. In retrospect, you probably knew all that already and I just read your comment the wrong way. Now, I think what you meant was he passed them off in the interest of publishing an objective review, yes?
> ...


----------



## Torian

> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> The DT880s had a problem accurately depicting sounds that come from between 5 o clock to 7 o clock. Pretty much everything behind you. It actually sounds closer to the center, as opposed to sounding like it's actually behind you. With practice you can LEARN the distinct signature a rear sound makes with the 880s, but it will take you a split second to register that it's coming from behind you. That split second is enough to get you killed in an FPS game. Trust me. This is an issue with all models of the Premium DT880s, as I have compared with a few of my AVS friends who have owned different versions. They all arrived to the same conclusion.


 
  
 Without AMPing!
 How much does this take effect in the game and will effect my gameplay itself when i majorly play arena fps? Is it really that bad? I have the oppurtunity to get some used but under good condition DT880 250Ohm edition for like 150€ which seems really fair for a powerhorse whilst fidelio x2 which i was positively looking for cost about 250-299€, i mean for 1/2 of that price i might go just for DT880 instead?!


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> To be fair, I'm the same. I don't want to put up reviews of headphones that aren't suited to my taste. It's bhard to judge, since obviously othersbwill find it better than I do. As for the TH600 review, that will be quite a wait. In short, yes its awesome, and yes the TH900 is even better. Both are stellar for gaming with bass that goes deep but does not detract from soundwhoring due to a sense of separation between bass and mids (more so on the TH900 by a stretch). Both are tuned towards fun, but are very capable for competitive.
> 
> In the case of the TH900, its so fast in the bass, it betrays what the graphs imply. Its not the bass monster graphs show. Yes, it has some epic bass, but not basshead bass. Th600 has more of a standard tyoe of bassy bass you can expeft from bass heavy headphones. Neither are boomy or over the top.
> 
> Also, from my own tests, there is NOTHING problematic at 6.5khz. Its 5khz on the pair I had that was a bit iffy on frequency tests. In normal use though, i didnt have much of a problem. Certainly something more problematic in controlled testing than general use.




That's odd that you're not calling the the th900's basshead headphones as in the extreme bass thread they are listed as the second best basshead headphone in the world. The jvc sz2000 are they only headphone that had a more impactful bass according to that thread. Maybe they're equing and bass boosting to achieve these results.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

Okay... So thanks to all the chatter and helpful replies on this awesome thread, I've gotten many ideas for the setup I'd like to create, when before I knew nothing of the equipment out there or how it worked. I'm thinking now I would like an external DAC and headphone amp (seperate or together I don't know) that I could use with my computer, phone, and an xbox one if I get one, so I can run TOSLink, or USB to it. For music, movies and games. For virtual surround I could connect a turtle beach DSS. I'd like it to really sound great with the X2 and my music. (Largely classic rock/pop like Genesis and The Eagles.) I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to hook up RCA cables to it with an adapter... So I could really use it for everything. Got some recommendations for me? Around $200


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The TH900 as the best refined bass I've heard from headphones with bass this emphasized. However, BECAUSE it so fast and controlled, it doesn't fill up the sound like typical Basshead headphones. 

People who say these have the most impactful bass have not heard the older Denons to compare. The D7000 smokes the TH900 in presence and basshead level fun.


----------



## Stillhart

shadowskulkerer said:


> Okay... So thanks to all the chatter and helpful replies on this awesome thread, I've gotten many ideas for the setup I'd like to create, when before I knew nothing of the equipment out there or how it worked. I'm thinking now I would like an external DAC and headphone amp (seperate or together I don't know) that I could use with my computer, phone, and an xbox one if I get one, so I can run TOSLink, or USB to it. For music, movies and games. For virtual surround I could connect a turtle beach DSS. I'd like it to really sound great with the X2 and my music. (Largely classic rock/pop like Genesis and The Eagles.) I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to hook up RCA cables to it with an adapter... So I could really use it for everything. Got some recommendations for me? Around $200


 
  
 Adding your phone in there limits it a lot.  I think your best bet would be something like a Fiio E17 with maybe an E09k amp to go with it when you're not using the phone.
  
 For something that won't work with your phone, you have a couple more options.  I'd suggest the Audio-GD NFB-15 (you can get em used in the low 200's).  The Schiit stack works, but you'd need the upgraded Modi with more inputs, so that might push it out of your price range. Otherwise, there isn't much in the sub-$200 range that has optical input (for use with console).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can't connect the NFB-15 to the DSS, if he decided to go that route.


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> You can't connect the NFB-15 to the DSS, if he decided to go that route.


 
  
 Oh I assumed he meant to use it side-by-side with the DSS.
  
 Now I'm confused.  I have no idea what kind of setup he's envisioning here.  I figured he wanted to use a DAC with USB from computer and optical from console.  This gives quality stereo sound from everything.  The DSS would be used on the side when surround is desired.
  
 If you want to use a USB DAC on the PC and the DSS as the DAC on the console, you'd need an amp with multiple inputs, or something like a Schiit SYS to swap inputs manually as needed.


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

What about these combined ones? I'm not especially leaning towards them or away from, but just looking for input. My ultimate goal is that my music will sound clean... That's the best way to describe it I think. Seperation, soundstage, kinda close to nuetral with a little fun. The X2s sound precisely up my alley, so whatever best compliments them...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MXJYDUO/ref=pd_aw_sbs_pc_1?refRID=03Q64GZVRYRMW3VWC2EC

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E18-KUNLUN-Android-Phone/dp/B00GCDJBMM?SubscriptionId=AKIAJ7T5BOVUVRD2EFYQ&tag=camelbrowser-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00GCDJBMM

EDIT: Wait... The E17k is a amp as well... Why do I need a seperate amp? If I use the DSS does it nullify the E17k? Takes place as DAC?


----------



## Change is Good

1540 review...
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



If I get ignored, again, I'm trolling 10x harder until I get a response...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> 1540 review...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 [ignore]


----------



## Yethal

shadowskulkerer said:


> What about these combined ones? I'm not especially leaning towards them or away from, but just looking for input. My ultimate goal is that my music will sound clean... That's the best way to describe it I think. Seperation, soundstage, kinda close to nuetral with a little fun. The X2s sound precisely up my alley, so whatever best compliments them...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00MXJYDUO/ref=pd_aw_sbs_pc_1?refRID=03Q64GZVRYRMW3VWC2EC
> 
> ...


 
 Just buy an X7 and be done with it


----------



## AxelCloris

Going to be gaming with the PortaPros for a bit now; no other full sized headphones at home apart from the Stance S1+.


----------



## HiCZoK

my xonar dg died. Is fiio e10k a good choice now? or maybe one of xonars or asuses or omni ? I would prefer something external... as for dolby etd, I always only used xonar in hifi mode anyway
 edit: ohhh I have brainwavz hm5


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

yethal said:


> Just buy an X7 and be done with it


 I would, but it's twice as expensive.


----------



## HiCZoK

yeah xonar u7 is expensive, have mixed reviews and terrible volume wheel.
 Omni, e10k, x-fi hd are all cheaper options with better reviews (well minus x-fi hd, that one is mixed bag)


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

stillhart said:


> Oh I assumed he meant to use it side-by-side with the DSS.
> 
> Now I'm confused.  I have no idea what kind of setup he's envisioning here.  I figured he wanted to use a DAC with USB from computer and optical from console.  This gives quality stereo sound from everything.  The DSS would be used on the side when surround is desired.
> 
> If you want to use a USB DAC on the PC and the DSS as the DAC on the console, you'd need an amp with multiple inputs, or something like a Schiit SYS to swap inputs manually as needed.


 

 Whaaat?...
  
 Okay. So FYI I don't want the X7 because it is too expensive and not portable enough. I do want to use a DAC with USB from PC and optical from console. I will connect and disconnect them as necessary from PC to console.  I didn't know if the DSS could be used in conjunction with a DAC...  I thought it could sometimes.  I read in the PC surround sound thread about people with sound cards hooked to external DACS.  That's surround sound going to another DAC.  But I can live with these being seperate. Not being snarky, go ahead and explain stuff to me like I'm a child who doesn't get how things work.
  
   So.  To clear things up.  I will take this, and hook it up to my computer.  When I want to use it for my console, I will disconnect it from my computer, and connect it to my console.  Same deal for my phone.  So do I need a seperate amp?  Or will the amp in the e17k suffice?  And can I hook up through the dss and e17k to use it's amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> 1540 review...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




COUGH!

Someone is blind.


----------



## PacoTaco

shadowskulkerer said:


> Whaaat?...
> 
> Okay. So FYI I don't want the X7 because it is too expensive and not portable enough. I do want to use a DAC with USB from PC and optical from console. I will connect and disconnect them as necessary from PC to console.  I didn't know if the DSS could be used in conjunction with a DAC...  I thought it could sometimes.  I read in the PC surround sound thread about people with sound cards hooked to external DACS.  That's surround sound going to another DAC.  But I can live with these being seperate. Not being snarky, go ahead and explain stuff to me like I'm a child who doesn't get how things work.
> 
> So.  To clear things up.  I will take this, and hook it up to my computer.  When I want to use it for my console, I will disconnect it from my computer, and connect it to my console.  Same deal for my phone.  So do I need a seperate amp?  Or will the amp in the e17k suffice?  And can I hook up through the dss and e17k to use it's amp?


 
  
 The DSS can't be used in conjunction with the DAC. Just buy the sound blaster E5. It's 200$ for a X7 that is basically portable with slightly less amp power and utility in it. It can drive up to 600 ohm headphones, so you shouldn't have any issues unless you're trying to drive a planar. You're basically trading the TRS output, speaker output, speaker taps, op-amp customization, and 5.1 speaker outputs for portable goodness. So just go with that.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't know how the hell I missed that. My fault.


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> shadowskulkerer said:
> 
> 
> > Whaaat?...
> ...


 
 And headphone surround for consoles, E5 does not have a Dolby Digital decoder.


----------



## Evshrug

pacotaco said:


> The DSS can't be used in conjunction with the DAC. Just buy the sound blaster E5. It's 200$ for a X7 that is basically portable with slightly less amp power and utility in it. It can drive up to 600 ohm headphones, so you shouldn't have any issues unless you're trying to drive a planar. You're basically trading the TRS output, speaker output, speaker taps, op-amp customization, and 5.1 speaker outputs for portable goodness. So just go with that.




As Yethal said, the E5 doesn't decode a console's 5.1 Dolby output. The Creative E5 (CE5? Since FiiO also has an E5 and is prototyping an X7?) DOES have SBX and an optical input, but the optical input is stereo-only. The C E5 can process surround over USB with a computer, and console stereo, just not console surround. I'd personally get a cheaper processor (like an E3) and just buy a separate Turtle Beach DSS for the console, so I don't have to switch around where I'm plugged into.

Though I personally went with an X7.


----------



## HiCZoK

hiczok said:


> yeah xonar u7 is expensive, have mixed reviews and terrible volume wheel.
> Omni, e10k, x-fi hd are all cheaper options with better reviews (well minus x-fi hd, that one is mixed bag)


 
 anyone ?
 Omni and e10k are my favs so far.
 Omni is much more versitale thanks to line in, mic in and 2 mics on the device itself.
 Fiio seems great too but no switching between headphones and speakers would be troublesome


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

For $169.99 Amazon Deal Philips Fidelio X1/28 Premium Over-Ear Headphones https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Fjvjvb1MC4MXY
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B3QD94O/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Fjvjvb1MC4MXY


----------



## Yethal

I went with an X7 mostly for conveniece's sake. Since my PC and my consoles are close by, and are connected to the same screen, having two separate audio setups for PC and consoles seemed impractical.
  
 Important stuff: X7 firmware update was released today.

 Here are the patch notes:
  
_What's New:_

Added support for the E-MU XM7 passive speakers
Independent master volume setting for headphones and speaker
Supports volume control of Optical Out in standalone mode
 _Fixes:_

Fixed USB audio playback issue on certain system
Fixed noise issue when _Bluetooth_® is connected and not streaming
Fixed soft audio output issue on internal mic
Fixed audio switching issue between headphones and speaker
Prevents speaker calibration from affecting headphones


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> I went with an X7 mostly for conveniece's sake. Since my PC and my consoles are close by, and are connected to the same screen, having two separate audio setups for PC and consoles seemed impractical.
> 
> Important stuff: X7 firmware update was released today.
> 
> ...


 
 Did you upgrade it?
 I didn't manage to switch the device to bootloader mode at the end. Didn't brick itself luckily but was freaked out a bit...


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Did you upgrade it?
> I didn't manage to switch the device to bootloader mode at the end. Didn't brick itself luckily but was freaked out a bit...


 
 Upgraded with no issues, just unplug the power, hold down the power button, and then plug the power back in without letting go of the power switch.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Upgraded with no issues, just unplug the power, hold down the power button, and then plug the power back in without letting go of the power switch.


 
 Yeah. Did that. I'll try one more time.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Upgraded with no issues, just unplug the power, hold down the power button, and then plug the power back in without letting go of the power switch.


 
 Can you tell me exactly how you did it?
 The message about the bootloader pops-up. Only the Dolby LED lights on.
 I disconnect the power cable and start holding the power button.
 While holding the power button, I reconnect the power cable and turn on the X7.
 I keep holding the power cable until the Power LED lights blue.
 I release the button and click ok on the bootloader op-up.
 It starts to initialize and then informs me that it failed to detect the device switched to bootloader mode and that the upgrade has failed...
 What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Stillhart

conquerator2 said:


> What am I doing wrong?


 
  
 Using an X7.


----------



## conquerator2

stillhart said:


> Using an X7.


 
 Hush Dan


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> I went with an X7 mostly for conveniece's sake. Since my PC and my consoles are close by, and are connected to the same screen, having two separate audio setups for PC and consoles seemed impractical.
> 
> Important stuff: X7 firmware update was released today.
> 
> ...


 
 Just upgraded with no issue.


----------



## conquerator2

Well, good to know... I'd appreciate some help then. Please see my post 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
  
 EDIT - Resolved unplugged everything but the USB and DC power and skipped the Wyrd, going directly to PC USB.
 I assume the Wyrd was the culprit.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Upgraded with no issues, just unplug the power, hold down the power button, and then plug the power back in without letting go of the power switch.
> ...


 
 When I powered it on all of the lights (power, DD and SBX) turned on. Try clicking on the popup first and then releasing the button.


----------



## inseconds99

conquerator2 said:


> Well, good to know... I'd appreciate some help then. Please see my post


 
 Unfortunately all I did was download the firmware and hit upgrade. I had my X7 on like normal and I turned off my AntiVirus for good measure.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> When I powered it on all of the lights (power, DD and SBX) turned on. Try clicking on the popup first and then releasing the button.


 
 It's resolved now thx. Upgraded my previous post


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> When I powered it on all of the lights (power, DD and SBX) turned on. Try clicking on the popup first and then releasing the button.


 
 Why are you booting it on like that? No where does it say to do that in the directions, it says have your X7 on and plugged in, download the firmware and hit upgrade. Why are you doing more then what the instructions are saying?


----------



## conquerator2

inseconds99 said:


> Why are you booting it on like that? No where does it say to do that in the directions, it says have your X7 on and plugged in, download the firmware and hit upgrade. Why are you doing more then what the instructions are saying?


 
 He's doing it right?
 It asks to put the device into bootloader mode right in the installation. At least for us it does.


----------



## inseconds99

conquerator2 said:


> He's doing it right?
> It asks to put the device into bootloader mode right in the installation. At least for us it does.


 
  
 Did not ask me to do that at any point, I hit upgrade and like 10 minutes later it said successful. What OS are you using?


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > When I powered it on all of the lights (power, DD and SBX) turned on. Try clicking on the popup first and then releasing the button.
> ...


 
 That's what the instructions said.
  
@conquerator2  - Glad to hear that it's working for You.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> That's what the instructions said.
> 
> @conquerator2  - Glad to hear that it's working for You.


 
 Odd as I just hit upgrade and it turned the unit on and off by itself and finished with the upgrade successful.
  
 Where did you download the firmware from?


----------



## PacoTaco

stillhart said:


> Using an X7.


 
  
 Leave my X7 alone 
  
 More on topic: Looks like they're fixing some of the issues others and I have had with the interface its weird...oddities.


----------



## conquerator2

inseconds99 said:


> Did not ask me t.o do that at any point, I hit upgrade and like 10 minutes later it said successful. What OS are you using?


 
 I am using Windows 8.1.
 Downloaded form here - http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=1&catName=Sound%20Blaster&subCatID=1090&prodID=22189&prodName=Sound%20Blaster%20X7&bTopTwenty=1&VARSET=prodfaqRODFAQ_22189,VARSET=CategoryID:1090


----------



## inseconds99

conquerator2 said:


> I am using Windows 8.1.
> Downloaded form here - http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=1&catName=Sound%20Blaster&subCatID=1090&prodID=22189&prodName=Sound%20Blaster%20X7&bTopTwenty=1&VARSET=prodfaqRODFAQ_22189,VARSET=CategoryID:1090


 
 Same here man, odd, mine went through and said successful, now I am wondering if it actually did the upgrade.


----------



## conquerator2

pacotaco said:


> Leave my X7 alone
> 
> More on topic: Looks like they're fixing some of the issues others and I have had with the interface its weird...oddities.


 
 Yeah, now all I need is a Headphone Surround pass-through through S/PDIF


----------



## PacoTaco

conquerator2 said:


> Yeah, now all I need is a Headphone Surround pass-through through S/PDIF


 
 I'm hoping that comes about, especially for the weekends I have NFB-28 at home. That would be too amazing.
  
 Speaking of Audio-GD...
  
 Look at this:
  
 http://audio-gd.com/Pro/dac/DAC1911/DAC19EN.htm
  
 Edit: Ignore that link. Had a brain fart on what the DSP did on there.


----------



## Stillhart

pacotaco said:


> I'm hoping that comes about, especially for the weekends I have NFB-28 at home. That would be too amazing.
> 
> Speaking of Audio-GD...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have my eye on that unit.  Audio-GD is one of the last companies making R2R DAC's with the old Burr-Brown chips.  As I understand it, they bought all the remaining chips from TI.


----------



## conquerator2

pacotaco said:


> I'm hoping that comes about, especially for the weekends I have NFB-28 at home. That would be too amazing.
> 
> Speaking of Audio-GD...
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah,,, And I am ware of that product and nope it ain't Surround DSP


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Odd as I just hit upgrade and it turned the unit on and off by itself and finished with the upgrade successful.
> 
> Where did you download the firmware from?


 
 Creative support page. After step 3 of the upgrade process it asked me to reboot the X7 in bootloader mode, so I did


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> Creative support page. After step 3 of the upgrade process it asked me to reboot the X7 in bootloader mode, so I did


 
 Within the installer or where as I am not seeing this?


----------



## conquerator2

inseconds99 said:


> Within the installer or where as I am not seeing this?


 
 Yes, within the installer.


----------



## inseconds99

conquerator2 said:


> Yes, within the installer.


 


yethal said:


> Now I'll be wondering which one of us got the instructions wrong, us or @inseconds99


 
 Oh ok, mine never asked for that at all. Must have rebooted itself into the mode with no issue, at one point all 3 of my lights were on for an extended period. I guess for any device where the application fails to boot it to the mode it asks you to manually do it.
  
 Thank you for your quick response.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Yes, within the installer.


 
 Now I'll be wondering which one of us got the instructions wrong, us or @inseconds99 


inseconds99 said:


> Oh ok, mine never asked for that at all. Must have rebooted itself into the mode with no issue, at one point all 3 of my lights were on for an extended period. I guess for any device where the application fails to boot it to the mode it asks you to manually do it.
> 
> Thank you for your quick response.


 
 Maybe Yours was on the entire time.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Now I'll be wondering which one of us got the instructions wrong, us or @inseconds99


 
 Well, we were all successful at the end at least


----------



## ShadowSkulkerer

evshrug said:


> As Yethal said, the E5 doesn't decode a console's 5.1 Dolby output. The Creative E5 (CE5? Since FiiO also has an E5 and is prototyping an X7?) DOES have SBX and an optical input, but the optical input is stereo-only. The C E5 can process surround over USB with a computer, and console stereo, just not console surround. I'd personally get a cheaper processor (like an E3) and just buy a separate Turtle Beach DSS for the console, so I don't have to switch around where I'm plugged into.
> 
> Though I personally went with an X7.


 

 Well I'm getting a DSS one way or another.  The E5 certainly doesn't look a bad choice, but we'll see. I'm leaning towards the e17k out of personal preference for use with my phone and PC and DSS for the console.  Although I'd be sacrificing SBX for PC.  I guess if the game had Dolby surround I could use the DSS?  Thanks to all the suggestions and crosstalk I looked up different things and started realizing what stuff was and what was out there.  As for really portable DACs, Fiio is my only serious consideration.  Here's the thing.  Right now I have just a computer and a soundblaster card I want to sell after getting this stuff...  That's just my financial decision there.  I don't know though right now if I even have it set up right or if I'm getting surround in games with my headphones... I guess it's stereo.  I'd probably notice.  I don't even know just what SBX does.  It's not the same as surround sound decoding.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Going to be gaming with the PortaPros for a bit now; no other full sized headphones at home apart from the Stance S1+.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/phillips-fidelio-x2/

Hey guys the full X2 review is up!


----------



## PacoTaco

shadowskulkerer said:


> Well I'm getting a DSS one way or another.  The E5 certainly doesn't look a bad choice, but we'll see. I'm leaning towards the e17k out of personal preference for use with my phone and PC and DSS for the console.  Although I'd be sacrificing SBX for PC.  I guess if the game had Dolby surround I could use the DSS?  Thanks to all the suggestions and crosstalk I looked up different things and started realizing what stuff was and what was out there.  As for really portable DACs, Fiio is my only serious consideration.  Here's the thing.  Right now I have just a computer and a soundblaster card I want to sell after getting this stuff...  That's just my financial decision there.  I don't know though right now if I even have it set up right or if I'm getting surround in games with my headphones... I guess it's stereo.  I'd probably notice.  I don't even know just what SBX does.  It's not the same as surround sound decoding.


 
 Uhhh...it is Surround Sound decoding. If you go to playback devices->right click the sound card->configure speakers, you can set the thing to 5.1 speakers, and the soundcard will decode it to virtual surround (otherwise you're just adding reverb to the sound.) One that is better than Dolby Digital. Won't get you that surround on the console though, but thems the breaks. 
  
 If you don't want to 400$, but what a decent set up, try this:
  
 Get the E5. Have it into the PC through optical, set the windows configuration to 5.1, and enjoy the SBX surround.
  
 Buy the DSS 2 used for like 40$. Then have the headphone out of that go into the Line in of the E5.
  
 Now, for 240$, you just solved all your issues. And you have a damn good DAC/Amp for the price.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> :eek:




It's not that surprising, really. I sold the Alphas and the 400i are on loan.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/phillips-fidelio-x2/
> 
> Hey guys the full X2 review is up!




Definitely buying a pair later this year. Once i do that, I think im set for a while before going into the next tier with planars and what not. Great review by the way.

Oh and one more thing, you forgot to add another letter L in Phillips, it says Philips in the main heading, Just letting you know


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because it's Philips, not Phillips.




They made a mistake using Phillips in the link.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> That's because it's Philips, not Phillips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Huh? Lol You know, I never realized it was just one L. It always looked to me as if it had 2 L's. The link does have 2 Ls though. I think thats what thre me off even more.


----------



## Torian

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/phillips-fidelio-x2/
> 
> Hey guys the full X2 review is up!


 
 awesome!


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> It's not that surprising, really. I sold the Alphas and the 400i are on loan.




Was wondering where your 400i was. Finally sold mine, which further confirms I reached my 'mid-fi' endgame long ago with the 1540 and AKGs.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Was wondering where your 400i was. Finally sold mine, which further confirms I reached my 'mid-fi' endgame long ago with the 1540 and AKGs.


 
  
 I may be leaving mid-fi before too long. Really eyeing that Dharma from ENIGMAcoustics. It's not finished yet but the prototype was super promising.


----------



## Change is Good

I'll have to graduate and get a better paying job before I do the same.


----------



## Evshrug

So maybe Axel should've said he's nearly ready to graduate from Mid-Fi?
I'm not quite there yet, still having a lot of mid-Fi fun. I'm usually a moderate-level kind of guy. Dharma might break me from that, lol, but while I get tired of music after awhile, I do t get tired of gaming 

I need new tunes


----------



## Mach3

I'm surprised the FA-011 is not on the list. Although it's an open headphone, it's great for gaming and movies.


----------



## rudyae86

mach3 said:


> I'm surprised the FA-011 is not on the list. Although it's an open headphone, it's great for gaming and movies.




The name sounds more of a Jet lol

Please enlighten us with this headphone.


----------



## Mach3

rudyae86 said:


> The name sounds more of a Jet lol
> 
> Please enlighten us with this headphone.


 
  
 I've own pretty much all 3 major revision of these headphone. They have great lovely bass and sparky treble, very fun and musical on all genre of music. The early dark wood cups version sound grainy compared to the current model. There also a limited edition (these are pretty rare, 6 type of wood 10 made only in each category) Great bass presence that's north of neutral and is even more refined compared to the current revision FA-011. I prefer the current revision over my V-Moda M100 in terms of overall sound. But I give to V-Moda for making a much more robust headphone. 
  
  
 Limited Edition 1 of 10 ($500AUD), Current Revision ($169AUD), Early Dark Cups Revision ($140) All price are what I paid for them and includes shipping cost.


----------



## HiCZoK

I've ordered e10k.
 I don't care about virtual surrond or anything (thats why i've ordered this)
 anything usefull to know for gaming with this ?


----------



## Sam21

I am wondering if I should buy this analog Equalizer :
  
 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FBQ800.aspx
  
 lets you EQ the analog signal coming from your mixamp/dss/tritton....
  
  
 recon3d comes with a digital EQ....


----------



## Hansotek

I just demoed the "Out of Your Head" speaker emulation software, and I was super impressed with the surround sound effects! I guess they are releasing a low-latency surround emulator for gamers [who own the software] in the near future... which will be a free add-on to the basic software package. It may be of interest to those of you who are computer gamers...
  
 Anyway, the software is half-off on MassDrop at the moment... definitely check out the video demo!!
  
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/out-of-your-head-speaker-software


----------



## Sam21

Razer surround is already available, and it kicks ass with newer games.....


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> Razer surround is already available, and it kicks ass with newer games.....


 
  
 I found the software to be ok with gaming and completely unwanted with music and movies.


----------



## Sam21

axelcloris said:


> I found the software to be ok with gaming and completely unwanted with music and movies.


 
  
 I used it with Dead Space 3, it gave me a heart attack.


----------



## Kamakahah

axelcloris said:


> I found the software to be ok with gaming and completely unwanted with music and movies.




Same. I thought it was "good enough" for free when I was gaming, but otherwise pointless. A cheap dss did a better job for gaming without the software related issues I would occasionally get from the razor software.


----------



## cdsa35000

Why should you use laggy software emulation when you have hardware SBX emulation?
And the more surround effects/out of head intensity, the more helium everything sounds artifacts heard is not lifelike sounding.


----------



## conquerator2

I like helium.


----------



## Change is Good

Looks like the K7XX has more bass presence than the K712, according to innefidelity's measurements. Interesting because I had this assumption when I first got them, but thought I was just trippin since my ears had gotten used to the drier K612 and HP200.


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> Razer surround is already available, and it kicks ass with newer games.....


 
 I tried that, but all I heard was this artificial rever effect, like the game was played in the echo chamber.


----------



## Hansotek

hansotek said:


> I just demoed the "Out of Your Head" speaker emulation software, and I was super impressed with the surround sound effects! I guess they are releasing a low-latency surround emulator for gamers [who own the software] in the near future... which will be a free add-on to the basic software package. It may be of interest to those of you who are computer gamers...
> 
> Anyway, the software is half-off on MassDrop at the moment... definitely check out the video demo!!
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/out-of-your-head-speaker-software




Did anyone even click through and try this? Or did it just instantly derail?


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone need an external hard drive (160gb) to store music for their PS4? It originally came out of my old PS3 and is inside this external enclosure. Recently upgraded the HD on my PS4 and am now using its stock 500gb as my external... hence no need for the 160gb. Not asking for much, just want to pass it on to someone who may need it...


----------



## Knallie

Hello,

I've bought the Tritton 720+ Virtual Surround headset + amp because I wanted to have a nice gaming experience on the ps4. It has done pretty well till now. The greatness is off it, I'm getting tired of the big booms that I get hearing during Online gaming. 

So I've come to this forum and have read alot about amps and headsets. It made me wonder why I bought it in the first place. People stated that Headphones are that much better and "Gaming" headsets are just a load of bullcrap. I've realised that now, I can't hear jack**** about my surrounding like it supposed to be. A chopper in the air in Battlefield Hardline on the map Growhouse is just wrecking my ears. 

I want to how people tell it here, sound whoring. I want to know what happens in my surrounding. Now I've come to an understanding that Mix Amp Pro from Astro is most favorite here, but my bad is that I allready bought a Tritton 720+. And I would like to use this amp but I want to buy an new Headphone.

Now comes my questions:

How does the AMP of Tritton performe against the Mix amp Pro. I really want to use the AMP from Tritton because I didn't bought it for no reason then. But if this thing is a piece of **** then I cannot get arround and buy the Mix amp Pro.

Now I've seen some Headphones and many many many many suggestions in the revieuw in the gaming section of this forum.

Everyone is lovely about the AD700. But there are a few people who just hate it. Wich can you suggest me ?

And there was one Headset wich got good revieuw for competitive gaming. The Sennheiser PC 360. How does this beauty perform against a lets say AD700 ? 
 
My idea was, getting the Sennheiser PC 360 and then plug this in my AMP because it would replace my awefull tritton headset just like that with nothing else to buy. But I don't know if this is a good setup ? I would really like to you guys give me some advise because I dont want to waste some money again. There is not really a limit what I want to spent, but don't come with Amps for 1000 bucks haha. It must be realistic.

Sorry for my english, it's not my native lanquage. 

Regards,


----------



## Yethal

knallie said:


> Hello,





> I've bought the Tritton 720+ Virtual Surround headset + amp because I wanted to have a nice gaming experience on the ps4. It has done pretty well till now. The greatness is off it, I'm getting tired of the big booms that I get hearing during Online gaming.
> 
> Now comes my questions:
> 
> ...


 
 Dude, first of all, welcome to Head-Fi! Second of all, please use less spaces between paragraphs.
  
 Now, to answer Your questions:
  
 If You already have an amp from the 720+ headset, there isn't really much point in buying the Mixamp, since the difference will be negligible.
  
 As for the headset itself, the Philips Fidelio X1/X2 + V-Moda Boom pro seems to be a popular combo around here.


----------



## Torian

hansotek said:


> Did anyone even click through and try this? Or did it just instantly derail?


 

 Would like to, but you need an account at massdrop to do that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Trittin's decoder box is fine. If it's still like before, you can separate the puck to reveal two inputs (one for headphones, one for mics), that way you can use your own stuff.

I suggest the Fidelio X2. It's amazing. Buy it with a V-moda Boompro, and you'll have an instant, amazing headset.


----------



## Stillhart

torian said:


> Would like to, but you need an account at massdrop to do that



Just go directly to his website, skip Massdrop.


----------



## Hansotek

stillhart said:


> torian said:
> 
> 
> > Would like to, but you need an account at massdrop to do that
> ...




My bad. For Torian or anyone else who was interested in the "Out of Your Head" demo, here's a link to the same demo video on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/122824574

Did you see their demo at CanJam Stillhart? Was it just the same demo video, or did they have more?


----------



## Change is Good

Any of you getting ESO on the PS4 in June? I know Axel has it for PC.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Any of you getting ESO on the PS4 in June? I know Axel has it for PC.




Considering buying the PS4 version but I hear it's cross-platform compatible and if so I'd rather play on PC.


----------



## Change is Good

I was wondering if it was cross-platform compatible or not. That would be awesome if so.


----------



## martin vegas

change is good said:


> I was wondering if it was cross-platform compatible or not. That would be awesome if so.


 

 I don't think that we have to pay monthly for it now on ps4 , if we don't have to pay you can count me in for a copy, if we have t pay they can whistle out their ass!


----------



## Faceman

MLE, I should have bought a pair of Superlux HD668Bs on Massdrop and had them sent to you.  I would really like for you to include them in your review.  Maybe next time they go on sale.


----------



## PacoTaco

I decided to sell my Soundblaster X7, as I don't really need it anymore (I brought the NFB-28 home and I'm just going to use optical out from my soundcard for virtual SS.) If you want to work out a deal, the ad is here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/762585/creative-soundblaster-x7 .
  
 I forgot to put on there that I did update it to the latest firmware, so everything is good there.
  
 Also, you don't have to pay anything for ESO on any consoles. They've apparently added more **** in and made it closer to Morrowind than it use to be (but I haven't played it since that update...so who knows?) It's still not a true Elder Scrolls experience, but it's getting there apparently.


----------



## Change is Good

They got rid if the monthly subscription, hence why it's now called "Tamriel Unlimited." That's why I'm thinking about getting it, now.


----------



## Kamakahah

change is good said:


> They got rid if the monthly subscription, hence why it's now called "Tamriel Unlimited." That's why I'm thinking about getting it, now.




Well the monthly subscription still exists as ESO Plus membership which gives you access to the DLC content without purchasing it separately, some monthly marketplace currency as well as 10% buffs to gold exp, crafting, etc. 

Games that go F2P never offer full content for free, although this is pretty close, but really depends on what they plan on charging for the upcoming DLC content verses how long you plan on playing.


----------



## Porksword

Looking for some help with a buying decision. I Currently have Phillips X2 headphones with a Ear Force DSS v1 (it cost like $15) for PS4 gaming. I'm  pretty happy with my set up but want to see how good all this audio stuff can get. 
  
 I'm thinking about getting a Oppo HA-2 and a Mixamp pro. Or the Soundblaster X7. Any input on pros and cons of each setup and what type of improvement I might be able to expect would be much appreciated.


----------



## Change is Good

porksword said:


> Looking for some help with a buying decision. I Currently have Phillips X2 headphones with a Ear Force DSS v1 (it cost like $15) for PS4 gaming. I'm  pretty happy with my set up but want to see how good all this audio stuff can get.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a Oppo HA-2 and a Mixamp pro. Or the Soundblaster X7. Any input on pros and cons of each setup and what type of improvement I might be able to expect would be much appreciated.




That's probably as good as its going to get on console until Creative makes the X7 more user friendly. Just stick with what you have. Going from DSS to mixamp pro is more of a 'sidegrade,' but adding a portable amp will have some sonic improvement.


----------



## PacoTaco

porksword said:


> Looking for some help with a buying decision. I Currently have Phillips X2 headphones with a Ear Force DSS v1 (it cost like $15) for PS4 gaming. I'm  pretty happy with my set up but want to see how good all this audio stuff can get.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting a Oppo HA-2 and a Mixamp pro. Or the Soundblaster X7. Any input on pros and cons of each setup and what type of improvement I might be able to expect would be much appreciated.




The HA-2 is a DAC with an amp section used for their portable headphones and IEMs. It's not a good external amp if you're not using the DAC section. You'd be better off with the X7, as it has everything you could dream of and more. Or, if you don't want to spend 400, just get astro Mixamp with the Magni 2


----------



## Mach3

change is good said:


> That's probably as good as its going to get on console until Creative makes the X7 more user friendly. Just stick with what you have. Going from DSS to mixamp pro is more of a 'sidegrade,' but adding a portable amp will have some sonic improvement.


 
  
 Are you referring to the Turtle Beach DSS Ear Force?


----------



## SlickNick

Wow, such a thorough and excellent write-up. I have a few noobish questions for Mad Lust Envy, or anyone who wants to answer. I was on the fence about getting the Astro A50's for gaming on the Xbox One, along with watching tv and movies through the Xbox one. I now see that they're really not that great for their price and hype, but the Philips X2 Fidelio are the same price minus the mixamp and seem to excel in all-around performance.
  
 If I were to purchase the X2's, am I correct that I would need to purchase a mixamp to get full surround sound performance from these headphones? If so, which mixamp would work best with the Xbox One? Thanks in advance and apologies for the nooby questions


----------



## Yethal

I emailed Creative rep a while ago about the possibility of selling the extension cables from Recon 3D separately or bundling them with the X7 to add console chat compatibility. Here's their response:
  
"Dear Yethal (actually my real name here) (...)

We wish to highlight that the bundled accessories including the 3m audio extension cable for console of the Recon3D USB are not retail parts and we do not sell them separately.

We appreciate your input about the setup and the possibility of selling this part separately and we will help to feedback it to the relevant department for their reference.

Meanwhile, we are now checking with the relevant department the availability of stock and the cost of the extension cable.

We will get back to you as soon as we get an update on this request.

If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to get back to us. "
  
So, there's actually a possibility of Creative selling this stuff to people, which would bring more user-friendliness to the X7 itself and make it a more viable option.


----------



## Evshrug

Wow, catching up on this thread from being away for three days was less headache than expected! 


*SlickNick, Porksword, and Knallie,*

To simply experience headphone surround, a $25 Turtle Beach DSS (first one, not DSS2) will also use Dolby headphone processing and sound pretty good. A Tritton AX720+ processor or Astro Mixamp will also use Dolby Headphone, they don't improve the sound quality over the DSS (actually have lower quality amps, with background hiss and less volume headroom) but the Mixamp gains chat/game volume mixing as a feature. A lot of times you can use console features instead of the Mixamp dial, but it can be nice to have a dial right there to readjust on the fly.

Next quality step up would be an A/V receiver that offers a headphone surround mode... You get a noticably better amp and DAC than the DSS, but the headphone surround processing might seem slightly less natural than Dolby Headphone (unless you get an antique featuring DH). Expect to pay like ~$200 for a good one, with plenty of wiggle room.

Next step up would be Creative's new Soundblaster X7, $400 new. So far, the most natural sounding surround processing I've heard yet, plus decent Digital-to-Analogue-Conversion (DAC hardware) and amplifier, usb inputs for PC and recent smartphones/devices, optical for console game audio, Bluetooth receiver (and mobile app for adjusting settings), etc. A couple reviews are on Head-Fi now, worth a look if looking to make a system.

Next level up would be a Beyer Headzone or Smith Realizer, I don't know much about them except they apparently sound amazingly holographic and cost over $1000 (and my current budget).


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

faceman said:


> MLE, I should have bought a pair of Superlux HD668Bs on Massdrop and had them sent to you.  I would really like for you to include them in your review.  Maybe next time they go on sale.




I love my superlux hd668bs they don't get used much since I bought the akg q701s but I always recommend the superlux for gaming on a budget


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Omg I'm so excited. I just bought from Razordog on EBay the Fostex TH900  Now let me make sure I'm hom when it delivery for wife purpose! Lol


----------



## PacoTaco

badboybrazil said:


> Omg I'm so excited. I just bought from Razordog on EBay the Fostex TH900
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Congrats. If it's through UPS or FedEx (or whatever is in your location,) you may be able to call ahead and have it held at their stores instead of having to be there for the delivery.


----------



## SlickNick

evshrug said:


> Wow, catching up on this thread from being away for three days was less headache than expected!


 
  
 Thanks for the reply, I appreciate the detailed answer. So I think I'll be going with the Fidelio X2's + DSS. I was also looking at the Schiit Magni amp but wasn't sure if it would improve the quality or not? If it would be a good combo paired up with the DSS, then I would need a cable such as this one, correct? http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2 Would I need the Modi at all if I did get the Magni?
  
 Thanks for all the info!


----------



## rudyae86

Hey MLE, Im wondering when you are going to post the Beyerdynamic COP review?

Its been a while since I have seen you mention the COP and used it for gaming....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Gotta wait for Headphone.guru to post it. It's in their hands.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Gotta wait for Headphone.guru to post it. It's in their hands.


 
 for how long though? lol
  
 But good to know. Thanks
  
 Do you still have it and use it?
  
 or the TH900 is your new go to headphone? lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's been sent back. Of course it's not gonna stack up to the TH900.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> It's been sent back. Of course it's not gonna stack up to the TH900.


 
 lol I want to try TH900 so badly but spending that much on a headphone......jeeeez lol
  
 Id have to sell most of my headphones and save up some cash just for the TH900. Im not ready yet for that step up but I will eventually get there one day.
  
 But how far off is the COP from the TH900? Or is the TH900 on a class of its own?


----------



## PacoTaco

rudyae86 said:


> lol I want to try TH900 so badly but spending that much on a headphone......jeeeez lol
> 
> Id have to sell most of my headphones and save up some cash just for the TH900. Im not ready yet for that step up but I will eventually get there one day.
> 
> But how far off is the COP from the TH900? Or is the TH900 on a class of its own?


 
  
 I don't even like the V-shaped signature of headphones, but I respectfully recognize the TH900 is one of the best closed headphones period and would probably eat the entirety of Beyerdynamic until only the T1 remained....until the TH900 decides to steal its magnet and throw in another tesla into its driver magnet for the **** of it.
  
 It sounds good too.


----------



## Faceman

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> I love my superlux hd668bs they don't get used much since I bought the akg q701s but I always recommend the superlux for gaming on a budget


 

 Yea man, the Superlux HD668Bs are epic for only $30 on Massdrop.  I also upgraded headphones, to the Philips Fidelio X1s, as much as I love the X1s and how amazing they are, I ultimately came away impressed with how good a $30 pair of cans can sound.


----------



## Mach3

rudyae86 said:


> lol I want to try TH900 so badly but spending that much on a headphone......jeeeez lol
> 
> Id have to sell most of my headphones and save up some cash just for the TH900. Im not ready yet for that step up but I will eventually get there one day.
> 
> But how far off is the COP from the TH900? Or is the TH900 on a class of its own?


 
 I've owned both the COP and TH900. I think it fair to say in my own opinion it like comparing a Toyota Corolla to a Ferrari. The COP sounded congested, bass and vocal are no where near the refinement of the TH-900. Oh and the micro details of the TH-900 is simply sublime. If you're coming from the Astro or other gaming headset. the COP is actually pretty good.
 But park it next to the TH-900, oh man it like hawk eye going against Thor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What he said. Like 5 levels above, lol.


----------



## Mach3

mad lust envy said:


> What he said. Like 5 levels above, lol.


 
 Hahah actually just had another listen to the TH-900 and it Jedi level, while the COP is a storm trooper at best. 
 Oh by the way, I was powering the TH-900 and COP from Asus Essence One MUSES Edition with the SPL Phonitor and 50wrms balance Beta22.


----------



## Stillhart

mach3 said:


> Hahah actually just had another listen to the TH-900 and it Jedi level, while the COP is a storm trooper at best.
> Oh by the way, I was powering the TH-900 and COP from Asus Essence One MUSES Edition with the SPL Phonitor and 50wrms balance Beta22.


 
  
 How do you like the beta22?  I was thinking of building one...


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

pacotaco said:


> Congrats. If it's through UPS or FedEx (or whatever is in your location,) you may be able to call ahead and have it held at their stores instead of having to be there for the delivery.


Thx buddy. My worries were about my wife opened up the box and find out the receipt lol But Razordog told me that they don't send the receipt since Ebay e-mails it lol


----------



## Mach3

stillhart said:


> How do you like the beta22?  I was thinking of building one...


 
 I do feel it a very underrated amp, I think due to the fact that it DIY. Example the GSX MKII is highly regarded as the best SS amp but it simply a balance dynalo, a dynamite (balance dynahi is better in my opinion, moar power) is not mention much because it a DIY only amp.
 I did some extensive research on both the Beta22 and Dynamite before deciding on which amp to get.
 Ended with the Beta22 because it so flexible it can drive speakers (Great for HE-6) and has insane amount of power. The Dynamite was design for high impedance headphone. I have headphone of all different impedance so it was a no brainer.
 Also, before I went amp hunting I was researching for the best amp for the HD800 because I wanted speaker like soundstage. Beta22 kept popping up. IMO of all the amp I tested, the beta22 offered the widest soundstage.


----------



## Stillhart

mach3 said:


> I do feel it a very underrated amp, I think due to the fact that it DIY. Example the GSX MKII is highly regarded as the best SS amp but it simply a balance dynalo, a dynamite (balance dynahi is better in my opinion, moar power) is not mention much because it a DIY only amp.
> I did some extensive research on both the Beta22 and Dynamite before deciding on which amp to get.
> Ended with the Beta22 because it so flexible it can drive speakers (Great for HE-6) and has insane amount of power. The Dynamite was design for high impedance headphone. I have headphone of all different impedance so it was a no brainer.
> Also, before I went amp hunting I was researching for the best amp for the HD800 because I wanted speaker like soundstage. Beta22 kept popping up. IMO of all the amp I tested, the beta22 offered the widest soundstage.


 
 Thanks, appreciate the info.  I'm definitely considering it for my next DIY project.  Right now I'm working on modding my Adcom DAC.  DIY is way more fun once you're done hunting down all the dang parts...


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> What he said. Like 5 levels above, lol.




Dam, now I want own one lol


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Dam, now I want own one lol


 
 Thank god I'm poor, I'd order one right now if I had the money.


----------



## Fegefeuer

rudyae86 said:


> Dam, now I want own one lol


 
  
 This is your new plan now. No turning back now. Start selling.


----------



## Mach3

stillhart said:


> Thanks, appreciate the info.  I'm definitely considering it for my next DIY project.  Right now I'm working on modding my Adcom DAC.  DIY is way more fun once you're done hunting down all the dang parts...




Didn't you stopped by Zashoomin table at Canjam socal 2015.
Because Ben bought his balance beta22 to the meet.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

faceman said:


> Yea man, the Superlux HD668Bs are epic for only $30 on Massdrop.  I also upgraded headphones, to the Philips Fidelio X1s, as much as I love the X1s and how amazing they are, I ultimately came away impressed with how good a $30 pair of cans can sound.




Yea there great for only £30 my q701s cost £200 and although there better when you take the price into consideration I would pick the superlux all day long


----------



## rudyae86

mach3 said:


> If you're young and got lots of love to give. Why not visit the sperm bank? You got nothing to lose, except your DNA




Good luck if the woman doesnt go back to you asking for child support lol. You do know that can still happen, legally, even if you signed all that paper work...

Not sure if that would be worth it for headphones

Id rather work thanks lol


----------



## PacoTaco

rudyae86 said:


> Good luck if the woman doesnt go back to you asking for child support lol. You do know that can still happen, legally, even if you signed all that paper work...
> 
> Not sure if that would be worth it for headphones
> 
> Id rather work thanks lol


 

 Donating plasma still works! As long as no one tries to clone you from it or something and come back to you for child support.


----------



## Stillhart

mach3 said:


> Didn't you stopped by Zashoomin table at Canjam socal 2015.
> Because Ben bought his balance beta22 to the meet.


 
  
 I missed his table amongst all the hubbub.  I saw a LOT of stuff at CanJam and I'm *still* regretting some stuff that I missed.


----------



## AxelCloris

ESO confirmed not cross-platform between consoles and PC. Boo.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> ESO confirmed not cross-platform between consoles and PC. Boo.


 
  
 I'm pretty sure FFXIV is the only one that's cross-platform...


----------



## Change is Good

I read somewhere that there is a promotion for PC users to get the console version for $20 and be able to copy their character over.

Streaming some Mortal Kombat X story mode if anyone wants to check it out.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> I read somewhere that there is a promotion for PC users to get the console version for $20 and be able to copy their character over.
> 
> Streaming some Mortal Kombat X story mode if anyone wants to check it out.


 
  
 That's only if you owned the PC version before like June 2014.  It'll copy your character but their progress will diverge from there.


----------



## Change is Good

Axel, didn't you pick yours up when it first released?

Edit: maybe a good opportunity or maybe not, depending how you look at it?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Axel, didn't you pick yours up when it first released?
> 
> Edit: maybe a good opportunity or maybe not, depending how you look at it?


 
  
 Got mine when it came out. I'll consider getting the PS4 version.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTidn2dBYbY#t=64[/VIDEO]

I'm so hyped for this movie. GAH!


----------



## Change is Good

lmao


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> I'm so hyped for this movie. GAH!


 
  
 This needs to be turned into a PS4 game. Like now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hansotek said:


> This needs to be turned into a PS4 game. Like now.




The last Double Dragon game had a very similar feel. Far Cry: Blood Dragon did as well.


----------



## Mach3

mad lust envy said:


> I'm so hyped for this movie. GAH!


 
  
 That's just GOLD haha


----------



## ilovewubs

I just wanted to say thank you for all the effort you've put into this guide.  It has been pivotal in my decision making process.  I decided to pull the trigger on the AKG K712 Pro.  I can't wait till it arrives next week.  I'll be pairing that with the Antlion Audio Modmic 4.0 Omni Muted because I don't think the AKG K712 Pro would be compatible with the V-Moda BoomPro.   I already have a ASUS Xonar DGX soundcard, and I plan on getting a Schiit DAC and AMP.  Would the magni 2 and modi 2 do these headphones justice?  Anyways,  Thanks again for all the hard work you've put into this.  This thread is meantioned many times on various Amazon reviews, so you're really helping a lot of people make good, well informed purchases that won't leave them with buyers remorse.


----------



## inseconds99

ilovewubs said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for all the effort you've put into this guide.  It has been pivotal in my decision making process.  I decided to pull the trigger on the AKG K712 Pro.  I can't wait till it arrives next week.  I'll be pairing that with the Antlion Audio Modmic 4.0 Omni Muted because I don't think the AKG K712 Pro would be compatible with the V-Moda BoomPro.   I already have a ASUS Xonar DGX soundcard, and I plan on getting a Schiit DAC and AMP.  Would the magni 2 and modi 2 do these headphones justice?  Anyways,  Thanks again for all the hard work you've put into this.  This thread is meantioned many times on various Amazon reviews, so you're really helping a lot of people make good, well informed purchases that won't leave them with buyers remorse.


 
 The Boom pro is not compatible out of the box but you can get an adapter made that will make it work. I have read that the adapter is around $20.
  
 Let me know if you need the website as I still have it saved i think.


----------



## ilovewubs

I already ordered the Antlion, but thank you for the info.  I didn't even think that there might be an adapter available.  After listening to some recording comparisons I think I'll be very satisfied with the antlion.  The Boom Pro is also currently sold out on Amazon.  I know there are other places to shop, but I'd rather deal with Amazon if I can.


----------



## inseconds99

I have a question for anyone that has used a mod mix with an open headphone. I will soon own an HD800 or 700 and am looking to attrach a mod mic. As there seems to be only 1 place to place the mic (which is dead center of the driver covering that little air opening) does this placement change the sound at all seeing as air is restricted from passing through as freely?


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has used a mod mix with an open headphone. I will soon own an HD800 or 700 and am looking to attrach a mod mic. As there seems to be only 1 place to place the mic (which is dead center of the driver covering that little air opening) does this placement change the sound at all seeing as air is restricted from passing through as freely?


 
  
 Personally, I wouldn't put a mod mic on a headphone as expensive and finnicky as the HD800.  I'd get a clip-on mic and attach it to the cable, or just get a desktop USB mic.  
  
 For the HD700, I'm not too impressed with the sound anyways, so I wouldn't be worried about negatively affecting it.  
  
 YMMV as always.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> I have a question for anyone that has used a mod mix with an open headphone. I will soon own an HD800 or 700 and am looking to attrach a mod mic. As there seems to be only 1 place to place the mic (which is dead center of the driver covering that little air opening) does this placement change the sound at all seeing as air is restricted from passing through as freely?


 
  
 I never had an issue with the ModMic blocking sound for the left side of my Q701. The same should be true for both Sennheiser models you mentioned.
  
 That said, the HD800 has a flat area towards the rear of the heapdhone just behind the open center grill. You could mount the ModMic there. The ModMic's boom shouldn't have any issue reaching from there. The HD700 has a similar flat area that would be great for mounting.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Personally, I wouldn't put a mod mic on a headphone as expensive and finnicky as the HD800.  I'd get a clip-on mic and attach it to the cable, or just get a desktop USB mic.
> 
> For the HD700, I'm not too impressed with the sound anyways, so I wouldn't be worried about negatively affecting it.
> 
> YMMV as always.


 
  
 There's an issue with clip-on mics, though. I've had times where the clip-on mic ends up underneath my shirt collar and it muffles my voice. Or if I move around and rub the mic against my clothing it makes a wonderful metallic sound that I'm sure you've probably heard when gaming with me. A ModMic is much more convenient to use. Plus they use a 3M adhesive which is easy to remove without residue when you go to sell the headphone eventually.


----------



## Stillhart

axelcloris said:


> There's an issue with clip-on mics, though. I've had times where the clip-on mic ends up underneath my shirt collar and it muffles my voice. Or if I move around and rub the mic against my clothing it makes a wonderful metallic sound that I'm sure you've probably heard when gaming with me. A ModMic is much more convenient to use. Plus they use a 3M adhesive which is easy to remove without residue when you go to sell the headphone eventually.


 
  
 Given that there's a nice big obvious mounting plane there, I withdraw my comments.  But I still hold that I wouldn't mount it to the grill of one of the most well-regarded summit-fi headphones available.  When you can significantly change the sound by adding a tiny bit of fluff to the back wall of the ear cups, I wouldn't risk it...


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> I never had an issue with the ModMic blocking sound for the left side of my Q701. The same should be true for both Sennheiser models you mentioned.
> 
> That said, the HD800 has a flat area towards the rear of the heapdhone just behind the open center grill. You could mount the ModMic there. The ModMic's boom shouldn't have any issue reaching from there. The HD700 has a similar flat area that would be great for mounting.




Thank your for this, I wasn't sure if the mic would be long enough to reach from the point to the from and reach near my mouth. If so this will be amazing and I will not need to worry about some sound change from a mod mic now.


----------



## AxelCloris

stillhart said:


> Given that there's a nice big obvious mounting plane there, I withdraw my comments.  But I still hold that I wouldn't mount it to the grill of one of the most well-regarded summit-fi headphones available.  When you can significantly change the sound by adding a tiny bit of fluff to the back wall of the ear cups, I wouldn't risk it...


 
  
 I too wouldn't mount it to the grill. But with the HD800 as a gaming headphone I'd probably feel the need to game using my Shure SM7B as a gaming mic.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> Thank your for this, I wasn't sure if the mic would be long enough to reach from the point to the from and reach near my mouth. If so this will be amazing and I will not need to worry about some sound change from a mod mic now.


 
  

  
 If you look at how I had the ModMic set up on my Q701 I had plenty of space on the back end. In this photo I've bent it twice and the mic rested just to the left of my mouth. This was a gen 2 (or maybe 1) ModMic and I think the new one has a slightly longer boom in addition to a better mic.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm going to be streaming on my Twitch channel a lot more often once summer roles around, guys (I will be out of work and school for a couple months). I will try to be more engaging and funny as I was during my first stream, ever, so more followers and support will be much appreciated!


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Star wars battlefront trailer



https://youtu.be/XLaoiNUhDeQ


----------



## Stillhart

martin vegas said:


> Spoiler: Star wars battlefront trailer
> 
> 
> 
> _https://youtu.be/XLaoiNUhDeQ (*YT: Star Wars Battlefront Reveal Trailer*)_ Star Wars Battlefront Reveal Trailer(02:17)


 
  
 EA and Dice are the dark side, but Star Wars is the light side.... can't... decide...


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> EA and Dice are the dark side, but Star Wars is the light side.... can't... decide...




The Dark side is where the power is at muahaha


----------



## Change is Good

If you don't like Battlefield, this may not be the Star Wars you want. I was pretty bummed about the whole no campaign thing, at first, but that just means DICE was given extra time for what they specialize in. Will be interesting...


----------



## Stillhart

rudyae86 said:


> The Dark side is where the power is at muahaha


 
  
 No, the Dark side takes your money and releases an unfinished, overhyped game that takes 8 months to be playable and still has game-breaking bugs.  Then asks for more money for DLC before what you already paid for is fixed.


----------



## Change is Good

stillhart said:


> No, the Dark side takes your money and releases an unfinished, overhyped game that takes 8 months to be playable and still has game-breaking bugs.  Then asks for more money for DLC before what you already paid for is fixed.




Hasn't that become the norm for 90% of today's AAA titles?


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Hasn't that become the norm for 90% of today's AAA titles?


 
  
 Certainly with most of EA's AAA titles.  I'll wait for reviews on this one.  Pre-ordering these days is for suckers.


----------



## Change is Good

EA, Ubisoft, *Activision*, Microsoft, Sony, the list goes on. Sad that these are the companies with a current choke hold on today's gaming industry.

I pre-order limited editions and such, and even games I really want and like. I'll be that sucker, going on about my day without a care. Complaining never got me anywhere in life.


----------



## rudyae86

stillhart said:


> No, the Dark side takes your money and releases an unfinished, overhyped game that takes 8 months to be playable and still has game-breaking bugs.  Then asks for more money for DLC before what you already paid for is fixed.




Thats why you never pay Full Retail price from them, ever lol

Although I do hope they learned their lesson now....I hope and use the same netcode from BF4 CTE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No campaign and BF mechanics ensure that I won't even touch the game. Two biggest no nos for me.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> No campaign and BF mechanics ensure that I won't even touch the game. Two biggest no nos for me.




Ughhhh... 

Duh?


----------



## Stillhart

mad lust envy said:


> No campaign and BF mechanics ensure that I won't even touch the game. Two biggest no nos for me.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm a bit unclear on how Darth Vader and Boba Fett fit into the game if there's no campaign...


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone down to watch me stream Dying Light? Haven't played it in a while but I'd love to try and get some of you guys to join in on the chaotic fun you may be _Lusting_ (looking at you, _Madless Envious_) for!


----------



## Change is Good

Fuggit streaming some Hardline wit' da homies. Hit the Twitch link in my sig and join us! Could use the extra entertainment...


----------



## rudyae86

Thats better with no SP. Honestly, there really isnt that many good SP campaigns when a game has MP. Instead of giving us a crappy SP, just give us what works best. 

I woulndt have mind having an SP in SWB but honestly, you only play it once and thats it. Plus you can just watch the movies lol.

And most SP are so short that you will be done within 5 hours. Im sure they have their reasons and its usually money (trying to milk that cow as much as they can) but lets be real Battlefront 2 was awesome. Sadly its support was put to sleep last year when their servers were shutdown and I would guess that it was for this very reason on a new game which is SWB.

Edit: copied the wrong quote


----------



## Yethal

Another Battlefield game? I still haven't touched Hardline. I'd play it though if it wasn't an EA game. Just can't trust these guys anymore.
  
 The Lord is testing me. Two hours after my GPU and monitor have died I found a used Custom One Pro for an equivalent of 80 USD.
 If there's anything I could do to revive my oldass PC without spending money I'd do that and then buy these headphones.
  
 Also, Creative rep got back to me. Unfortunately they do not have the Recon 3d extension cables in stock, however they did promise to pass the idea of using these cables for console voice chat to another department "to look at it"


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Another Battlefield game? I still haven't touched Hardline. I'd play it though if it wasn't an EA game. Just can't trust these guys anymore.
> 
> The Lord is testing me. Two hours after my GPU and monitor have died I found a used Custom One Pro for an equivalent of 80 USD.
> If there's anything I could do to revive my oldass PC without spending money I'd do that and then buy these headphones.


 
 Go for it, you wont be dissapointed. I got the same deal 5 days ago. Using them right now and I really like them for a closed headphone. Compared to the Sennheiser 350SE headset, these are more bassy though I feel the 350SE has a slightly wider soundstage.
  
 The COPs that i got said they were like new on AWS and said packaging may be damage. When i got them, to my surprise, the box wasn't damaged and the Cops look brand new and look in new condition. For 80 bucks, it must be one of my best purchases since the X1 (sold X1 and waiting to buy X2) and AKG K7XX.
  
 Also, I play BF4 most of the time with my friends. Hardline to me isnt worth 60 dollars nor its premium. Come Black Friday and Ill gladly pay 35 for both Game and premium. SWB, though we have not seen actually gameplay, Im hoping that they use the CTE netcode and just balance a few things out. If anything, they better use whats not broken. If they try to work with something new in order to make something revolutionary, then they are going to have more bugs like always.
  
 I can already know that they are going to release a Beta during the summer and another one 2 months before its release.....because EA likes us to work for them for free and let them know of those bugs so we can enjoy them.
  
 Either way, there are other games I am still willing to try out before giving up on BF4. BF4 is running out of steam though, at least thats what I see. It doesnt have that same momentum BF3 started with. Though less people now are playing BF3 and Bf4 is being played slightly more. I can see Hardline being around for a while but its prone to lose alot of momentum when Star Wars Battlefront releases.
  
 Anyways, I was watching the Teaser for SWB with the COPs and maaaan. I like that bass and Im thinking to myself, those TH900
  
  
 how would they sound?


----------



## Change is Good

Judging by how smoother Hardline was, at launch, when compared to BF4, I'm hoping the same applies to Battlefront. DICE should have a pretty good grip on how to run their engine on the new consoles, now. I mean, their B-team Visceral was able to do it, right?

Sorry to say (because I know how some of you highly dislike it), but BF mechanics and gameplay inside a Star Wars setting is pure gold for me.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Judging by how smoother Hardline was, at launch, when compared to BF4, I'm hoping the same applies to Battlefront. Sorry to say (because I know how some of you highly dislike it), but BF mechanics and gameplay inside a Star Wars setting is pure gold for me.


 
 I hope it isn't as bloated as BF4 with it's 150 weapons and 60 gadgets.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I hope it isn't as bloated as BF4 with it's 150 weapons and 60 gadgets.




Lol, well, I hope it isn't lacking in weapons like Hardline.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Lol, well, I hope it isn't lacking in weapons like Hardline.


 
 Sooo, BF3 amount of weapons and gadgets would be perfect.


----------



## conquerator2

I hope it isn't like Battlefield at all... It's a Star Wars game


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I hope it isn't as bloated as BF4 with it's 150 weapons and 60 gadgets.


 
 lol how many weapons can there be in the world of star wars lol
  
 maybe 50 different lightsabers? lol


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> lol how many weapons can there be in the world of star wars lol
> 
> maybe 50 different lightsabers? lol


 
 Yeah, and each and every one of them will have a separate battlelog killcount


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> I hope it isn't like Battlefield at all... It's a Star Wars game




I wouldn't hold my breath. Its DICE. Its gonna be a Star Wars themed Battlefield. Same mechanics, same 20 minute trek to action, same slow ass gameplay. Think of what EA did with Medal of Honor. They simply removed features from Battlefield, cut map size by 80%, and called it a new game.

Before anyone thinks im just making stuff up, I do play these games. I rent them and/or buy them cheap on PC. Though i stopped at BF4. I know nothing's changed. Hardline is BF4 with a skin and differently named modes thatvare essentially core BF experiences.


----------



## Yethal

I bought the Custom One Pro. Can't actually give them a proper listen since the PC died. Still, totally worth it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For a cheap price, the COP is awesome. Just get some DT770 velours for it.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I wouldn't hold my breath. Its DICE. Its gonna be a Star Wars themed Battlefield. Same mechanics, same 20 minute trek to action, same slow ass gameplay. Think of what EA did with Medal of Honor. They simply removed features from Battlefield, cut map size by 80%, and called it a new game.
> 
> Before anyone thinks im just making stuff up, I do play these games. I rent them and/or buy them cheap on PC. Though i stopped at BF4. I know nothing's changed. Hardline is BF4 with a skin and differently named modes thatvare essentially core BF experiences.




Like I said, pure gold!


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> For a cheap price, the COP is awesome. Just get some DT770 velours for it.




Is using velour pads on the COPs better than using its pleather pads? Are you talking comfort or sound wise?

Also, BF4 was meant to be a slow game. I can see why you sau that because you are a COD fan I think. Hardline actually has faster gameplay Mechanics but it does feel like a reskinned BF4. Not worth buying a full retail price IMO.

I was reading somewhere that Star Wars will use Frostbite 3 engine but with a new additional engine as well. Im still co.fused about how it will work but I will look for it later and comment on it. Game will also be DX12 and I cant wait till more new graphics cards come out. Windows 10 is nearby as well, free upgrade to all windows 7/8/8.1 users.

I say some good things are yet to come. 
Rainbow six siege looks like a good game for me for competitive gameplay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Watching interstellar blu ray with the TH900 and SBX... that D7000 rumble is there! Sooo excited.


----------



## Change is Good

I can almost guarantee that regardless of reviews, most of the regulars in here WILL NOT like SW:BF for obvious reasons.

Do not worry, there is still a "Destiny" out there for you guys!


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> I hope it isn't like Battlefield at all... It's a Star Wars game




So, I REALLY liked the old SWB games, I must've played the all-bot Demo of the first game on the SW original trilogy box set more than I watched the movies, and I really liked the 501st storm trooper campaign in Battlefront II. Never played online though, by the time I got SW: BFII, the servers had already been shut down. And therein may be why I liked them: I got BF3 and BF4 shortly after release, BF3 three times actually, but playing with tons of internet people wasn't as cool as I thought. Unlocks made players much more powerful, the hardcore modes were rife with teamkillers, and generally there was a ton of camping and trolling going on.
Meh

Bloodborne, however... Man, 2 hours with no real progress or profit, started out thinking I was fighting really well for my first FROM SOFTWARE game, but I would get stuck on a fattie or a group of hooligans by a bonfire. But shortly after 2 hours, I broke through to a new area, I was like "Oh man oh man oh man please don't die please don't die!" And found new gear and more areas to explore... Before dying again and being sent back to the checkpoint. Then I found the boss! I died, but then the game unlocked the ability to level up my character!
So, the game IS punishing like they say, not so much that each encounter is hard but more that there's very little margin for error. You have to be careful, but you can't hold back and you have to just go for it. All you need is a little success and hope, and you're hooked!


----------



## Yethal

I've been using the COP for about an hour now. I gotta admit, I like them. The customizable bass is great and does actually make an audible difference. Virtual surround positioning is pretty good (not as good as the HD598 but good enough), the clamp is okay. For 80 bucks that was a steal.
  
 Fun fact: due to currency exchange rate difference the COP cost me about ten dollars more than the HD598 but in zlotys (Polish currency) there was a 50% price difference. You Americans have it so much easier when it comes to buying electronics.


----------



## Change is Good

Bloodborne. Oh, those 100+ hours of death and exceutiating pain. It was freaking awesome!


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> I can almost guarantee that regardless of reviews, most of the regulars in here WILL NOT like SW:BF for obvious reasons.
> 
> Do not worry, there is still a "Destiny" out there for you guys!


 
 I don't want Destiny 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Give me a good SP game and I am a happy camper... Oh, I am a happy camper


----------



## Change is Good

Hahaha! 

Jokes aside, isn't EA paying to have two different Star Wars IPs in the near future (one being Battlefront)? I remember reading a long while back that there's an open world SP variation being developed by a different studio. Can't seem to remember where I read it, but it was either Gamespot or IGN.


----------



## Change is Good

Found the articles. Would be awesome if it was a Dragon Age/Mass Effect kind of Star Wars.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ea-developing-open-world-star-wars-game/1100-6416442/

http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/11/27/ea-canada-developing-open-world-next-gen-star-wars-game


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> So, I REALLY liked the old SWB games, I must've played the all-bot Demo of the first game on the SW original trilogy box set more than I watched the movies, and I really liked the 501st storm trooper campaign in Battlefront II. Never played online though, by the time I got SW: BFII, the servers had already been shut down. And therein may be why I liked them: I got BF3 and BF4 shortly after release, BF3 three times actually, but playing with tons of internet people wasn't as cool as I thought. Unlocks made players much more powerful, the hardcore modes were rife with teamkillers, and generally there was a ton of camping and trolling going on.
> Meh
> 
> Bloodborne, however... Man, 2 hours with no real progress or profit, started out thinking I was fighting really well for my first FROM SOFTWARE game, but I would get stuck on a fattie or a group of hooligans by a bonfire. But shortly after 2 hours, I broke through to a new area, I was like "Oh man oh man oh man please don't die please don't die!" And found new gear and more areas to explore... Before dying again and being sent back to the checkpoint. Then I found the boss! I died, but then the game unlocked the ability to level up my character!
> So, the game IS punishing like they say, not so much that each encounter is hard but more that there's very little margin for error. You have to be careful, but you can't hold back and you have to just go for it. All you need is a little success and hope, and you're hooked!




The mentality you need is more of a "I am the hunter, not the hunted."f


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> The mentality you need is more of a "I am the hunter, not the hunted."f




+1


----------



## inseconds99

Like to hear some comparisons of summit-fi or high end hi-fi gaming for anyone with experience to answer some questions that have been posed in this thread in the past..

Interested in the feedback of;

AKG 812
HD 800
TH900
Ad2000X
HD 700
Beyerdynamic T1

Interests are in all day comfort, immersion, soundstage and positioning. I am curious and are others, if you have any other summit fi or really high end headphones I did not mention please feel free to give some quick feedback.

Curious to see where this goes.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I've been using the COP for about an hour now. I gotta admit, I like them. The customizable bass is great and does actually make an audible difference. Virtual surround positioning is pretty good (not as good as the HD598 but good enough), the clamp is okay. For 80 bucks that was a steal.
> 
> Fun fact: due to currency exchange rate difference the COP cost me about ten dollars more than the HD598 but in zlotys (Polish currency) there was a 50% price difference. You Americans have it so much easier when it comes to buying electronics.


 

 Good to know you like them. I actually like them more for music/movie watching. Im a competitive type of player, so when I need more detail and positional accuracy, I rely on my K7XX instead. Overall, I think the COP is a pretty good headphone, especially for 80 bucks. I bet its even better than the Kingston Hyper Fury X headset, though its no slouch either. I wonder how the COP will sound with Velour pads?
  
 At 32 bucks a pair, Im willing to spend a bit more to see if the sound changes alot with them. That, and the comfort level should go up as well. They get a bit hot after an hour of wearing them with the pleather pads


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Good to know you like them. I actually like them more for music/movie watching. Im a competitive type of player, so when I need more detail and positional accuracy, I rely on my K7XX instead. Overall, I think the COP is a pretty good headphone, especially for 80 bucks. I bet its even better than the Kingston Hyper Fury X headset, though its no slouch either. I wonder how the COP will sound with Velour pads?
> 
> At 32 bucks a pair, Im willing to spend a bit more to see if the sound changes alot with them. That, and the comfort level should go up as well. They get a bit hot after an hour of wearing them with the pleather pads


 
 I'm considering buying the dedicated microphone from Beyerdynamic for them, as well as the velour pads. Should transform great headphones into great headset at twice the cost of the cans themselves.


----------



## Change is Good

Why not just get a boompro?


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I'm considering buying the dedicated microphone from Beyerdynamic for them, as well as the velour pads. Should transform great headphones into great headset at twice the cost of the cans themselves.


 
 Just like Change is good said, get the Boompro Mic. From reviews the goosneck mic from Beyer isnt that great. Im using the Boompro with the COPs and it works well . The only thing missing would be that little lock mechanism, sort of. Its actually a little plastic tab that holds the stock cable from moving the 3.5mm jack but the boompro fits right without much movement. Not like you are going to swerve the mic around alot anyways.


----------



## rudyae86

Well look what I found at overclock . net
  
 http://stevivor.com/2015/04/star-wars-battlefront-will-be-the-first-dolby-atmos-supported-game-but-only-on-pc/
  
  
 Looks like SWB on PC will only get Dolby Atmos, which Im sure non of us have currently lol
  
 But its good that they are trying to push audio quality up a notch, even though there is still alot of work to do and adaptation of new techonlogy.
  
 We need Dolby Atmos for headphones though so we can start hearing above us and below us.
  
 Hmmm, makes me want to buy a real 7.2.2 Atmos Home Theater system.....well thats a whole other project and maybe 1k of monnies.
  
  
 So it seems the Kindle can deliver Atmos with its own HRTF. Im no expert but thats pretty neat, though Im guessing its software based and not hardware. Heres a link of what it explains, not really much but just so you can read it.
  
 http://blog.dolby.com/2014/09/dolby-atmos-goes-mobile/
  
 If they can do this already on a mobile tablet, companies like Creative, Astro or Asus should start  or probably have started developing hardware for this. Im sure if its hardware, it will be expensive.
  
 Atmos has been around since 2012, so its still relatively new and until recently has made it to home theater systems.
  
 Man, how would we know what Creative, Asus or Astro will release next?


----------



## Mach3

mad lust envy said:


> Watching interstellar blu ray with the TH900 and SBX... that D7000 rumble is there! Sooo excited.




Interstellar and Edge of Tomorrow, two best sci fi movies of 2014


----------



## Change is Good

Twitching!


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Just like Change is good said, get the Boompro Mic. From reviews the goosneck mic from Beyer isnt that great. Im using the Boompro with the COPs and it works well . The only thing missing would be that little lock mechanism, sort of. Its actually a little plastic tab that holds the stock cable from moving the 3.5mm jack but the boompro fits right without much movement. Not like you are going to swerve the mic around alot anyways.


 
 Well, the locking mechanism is nice, I also like the ability to remove the mic when I'm not currently using it. Plus, I can replace the gooseneck mic in case I breakt it. Although, given the current US exchange rates I'd pay for the Beyer microphone about as much as I paid for the HD598 which is kinda absurd.
  
 There is an update for the X7 Control Panel available for download


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Well, the locking mechanism is nice, I also like the ability to remove the mic when I'm not currently using it. Plus, I can replace the gooseneck mic in case I breakt it. Although, given the current US exchange rates I'd pay for the Beyer microphone about as much as I paid for the HD598 which is kinda absurd.
> 
> There is an update for the X7 Control Panel available for download


 
 Thats why I would recommend the Boombpro mic instead of the gooseneck mic. It doesnt really move out of place unless you really try to.


----------



## krustybbr

Hello good morning

 It is possible to connect my playstation 4 to zxr sound card and connect my Sennheiser PC360 it?

 If possible as I have to do, can someone explain?


----------



## conquerator2

krustybbr said:


> Hello good morning
> 
> It is possible to connect my *playstation 4 to zxr sound card* and connect my Sennheiser PC360 it?
> 
> If possible as I have to do, can someone explain?


 
 No, it is not possible.


----------



## krustybbr

conquerator2 said:


> No, it is not possible.


 

*Thanks conquerator2*...
  
 I have a question, headset Sennheiser PC 360
 has the same quality as the Sennheiser game one or I better upgrade?
  
 Another question, what is the best phone for games in the $ 250 range?


----------



## AxelCloris

krustybbr said:


> *Thanks conquerator2*...
> 
> I have a question, headset Sennheiser PC 360
> has the same quality as the Sennheiser game one or I better upgrade?
> ...


 
  
 The G4ME ONE is the PC360 with an added USB sound card and a fresh coat of paint. Since you have the PC360 already there's no reason to "upgrade" to the ONE.
  
 Best headphone is relative. Personally I'd get a used Mad Dog or HiFiMan HE-400 for $250 but that's me. 'Dat planar sound, yo... If you want dynamic then it's hard to pass on the K7XX for $200. Others here may recommend a pair of used X2 over the headphones I mentioned but I haven't heard them for more than a couple of minutes so I can't recommend them yet.


----------



## krustybbr

axelcloris said:


> The G4ME ONE is the PC360 with an added USB sound card and a fresh coat of paint. Since you have the PC360 already there's no reason to "upgrade" to the ONE.
> 
> Best headphone is relative. Personally I'd get a used Mad Dog or HiFiMan HE-400 for $250 but that's me. 'Dat planar sound, yo... If you want dynamic then it's hard to pass on the K7XX for $200. Others here may recommend a pair of used X2 over the headphones I mentioned but I haven't heard them for more than a couple of minutes so I can't recommend them yet.


 
 Thank you, and the best wireless headset which you refer?

 Astro A50 gen II
 or
 Turtle Beach elite 800


----------



## rudyae86

krustybbr said:


> Thank you, and the best wireless headset which you refer?
> 
> 
> Astro A50 gen II
> ...


 stay away from the turtle beach...

I cant comment on the astro a50 though but im pretty sure its better than the turtlebeach stuff


----------



## Mach3

rudyae86 said:


> stay away from the turtle beach...
> 
> I cant comment on the astro a50 though but im pretty sure its better than the turtlebeach stuff


 
  
 +1
  
 For the price Turtlebeach and Astro charges, I rather stick to wired and grab a HE-400 with a Astro Mixamp Pro. Heaps better sound.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> I'm going to be streaming on my Twitch channel a lot more often once summer roles around, guys (I will be out of work and school for a couple months). I will try to be more engaging and funny as I was during my first stream, ever, so more followers and support will be much appreciated!


 
  
 Where's the love, guys? Click the link on my signature and remember to follow, please. I'll refrain from spamming the thread, now...


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Where's the love, guys? Click the link on my signature and remember to follow, please. I'll refrain from spamming the thread, now...


 
 I clicked and watching, but only for a bit because I got work tomorrow 
  
 edit: for some reason twitch chat isnt working for me lol cant comment


----------



## Yethal

http://www.aiaiai.dk/

 Here You'll find a company that builds modular, customizable headphones. Pretty cool idea to me, I wonder how they sound.
 Also, the name of the company is ludicrous.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> I clicked and watching, but only for a bit because I got work tomorrow
> 
> edit: for some reason twitch chat isnt working for me lol cant comment




I've noticed people haven't been able to comment on my streams. I'll have to check that out. Thanks for watching! Man was that torture towards the end. Second boss is no joke on Bloodborne NG++... grrrr


----------



## Fegefeuer

So it seems the new Star Wars will feature Dolby Atmos as the first game. The days of Dolby Headphone are counted.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

Slightly off topic question but think this is the best place to get the correct answer. 
So basically I need to buy a USB hub for my ps4 two USB slots are not enough for me. If I have my mixamp blue snowball mic and say a controller charging all at the same time through the USB hub will it affect my sound quality at all ?


----------



## burritoboy9984

fegefeuer said:


> So it seems the new Star Wars will feature Dolby Atmos as the first game. The days of Dolby Headphone are counted.




Is Atmos Headphone and regular Atmos 2 different things like DTS X and Headphone X? Cause Headphone X has been around for going on 2 years and we don't have any devices for gaming other than a few Turtle Beach headsets.


----------



## martin vegas

burritoboy9984 said:


> Is Atmos Headphone and regular Atmos 2 different things like DTS X and Headphone X? Cause Headphone X has been around for going on 2 years and we don't have any devices for gaming other than a few Turtle Beach headsets.


 

 Dolby Atmos is sound coming from above aswell as surround..Auro 3d is another one..some speakers can do Dolby Atmos from the floor aiming upwards but they are normally on the ceiling..Kef do R50 Dolby Atmos speakers that fire upwards, not sure how a pc will be able to do Dolby Atmos!


----------



## rudyae86

martin vegas said:


> Dolby Atmos is sound coming from above aswell as surround..Auro 3d is another one..some speakers can do Dolby Atmos from the floor aiming upwards but they are normally on the ceiling..Kef do R50 Dolby Atmos speakers that fire upwards, not sure how a pc will be able to do Dolby Atmos!




I posted this a few posts ago lol you guys ignored it 

And the only way I see this working is by connecting it via sound card to an AV receiver?

Even then, what sound card can send that type of signal or even Dolby Atmos ready? Maybe its a built in HRTF in the game? Or maybe new sound cards are to be released within the coming months? Dolby atmos has been around since 2012, so idk....


----------



## Decimator

Can anyone comment on the 7xx vs the X1? Looking for good bass, especially sub-bass, soundstage and positioning.


----------



## inseconds99

decimator said:


> Can anyone comment on the 7xx vs the X1? Looking for good bass, especially sub-bass, soundstage and positioning.




I own the X1 and I'll give you a brief opinion, the bass is sloppy, the headphone is heavy and if you have a slightly larger head it is uncomfortable to wear. I find that the headphone is overhyped and I personally am glad I didn't pay too much for it as I am not a huge fan. Mind you there are tons of other people that will say the exact opposite, so take my opinion as that, an opinion. Some people will love this headphone and for that I am looking to trade it.

I personally would trade my X1 which is basically new for a new 7xx.


----------



## dakanao

decimator said:


> Can anyone comment on the 7xx vs the X1? Looking for good bass, especially sub-bass, soundstage and positioning.


 
 Don't know about the 7xx, but if you don't have an amp, don't get the X1.


----------



## krustybbr

This Headphone AKG K712 pro, is one of the best for games or have better?
 Greatly improves the quality in music and games with it compared to a Sennheiser PC360?


----------



## inseconds99

inseconds99 said:


> I own the X1 and I'll give you a brief opinion, the bass is sloppy, the headphones is heavy and if you have a slightly larger head it is uncomfortable to wear. I find that the headphone is overhyped and I personall am glad I didn't pay too much for it as I am not a huge fan. Mind you there are tons of other people that will say the exact opposite, so take my opinion as that, an opinion.
> 
> I personally would trade my X1 which is basically new for a new 7xx.




I did indeed post this in the classifieds, now if I can find a trade I will need to find one of those boompro mic adapters.


----------



## rudyae86

decimator said:


> Can anyone comment on the 7xx vs the X1? Looking for good bass, especially sub-bass, soundstage and positioning.


 
 If anything, just compare the review MLE has in the first page for the AKG K712 and X1 and figure out what to make of it. K712 is similar to the K7XX.
  
 I owned the X1. It was nice and bassy for an open headphone but the bass was sloppy at times, mids a bit too much for my taste but overall a great headphone. K7XX seems to have a more controlled bass but doesnt hit as much as the X1, mids are more out foward than the X1. Its a well balanced headphone and I probably like it more than the X1........however, the X2 seems to be better than X1, but I dont own an X2, maybe later this year. So far my K7XX is my go to headphone for movies, music and games.


----------



## lenroot77

decimator said:


> Can anyone comment on the 7xx vs the X1? Looking for good bass, especially sub-bass, soundstage and positioning.




I have both and enjoy them very much. 

The X1 bass is a little sloppy but it's fun sounding and the soundstage and positioning are good too. They are on the heavier side, but I wouldn't call them HEAVY. I have no problem wearing these for 4 hours at a time. The build quality and materials are top notch. These cans are Cadillacs.

The AKGs have a much more open and airy sound to them. The bass is lighter, i feel like I hear the smaller details when wearing them. They are super comfy and extremely light. I'd imagine these could be worn all day long. 

Despite what someone stated above the x1s are super easy to drive and will sound good with just something like a mixamp. The akg's are not as efficient and will need an amp with more punch.

In my opinion both of these are great headphones and u can't go wrong with either. They are favored by many people from this forum. In the last two years I've gone thru many different headphones and now I feel having these I can just enjoy listening to them. I have no interest in looking for anything new.


----------



## dakanao

lenroot77 said:


> I have both and enjoy them very much.
> 
> The X1 bass is a little sloppy but it's fun sounding and the soundstage and positioning are good too. They are on the heavier side, but I wouldn't call them HEAVY. I have no problem wearing these for 4 hours at a time. The build quality and materials are top notch. These cans are Cadillacs.
> 
> ...


 
 Yeah, the mixamp/DSS is enough for them to game on, but listening to music on your pc/laptop without an amp/DAC, they will lack dynamics and clarity


----------



## Mach3

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Slightly off topic question but think this is the best place to get the correct answer.
> So basically I need to buy a USB hub for my ps4 two USB slots are not enough for me. If I have my mixamp blue snowball mic and say a controller charging all at the same time through the USB hub will it affect my sound quality at all ?


 
 Why not just get a PS4 stand with fan? Keeps your PS4 cool so it last longer and you'll get 4 usb ports.
  
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fan-Grills-Filters-3-USB-Hub-with-Dual-Cooler-Fan-Charging-Stand-for-PS4-Console-/281460211150?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item418855fdce


----------



## lenroot77

dakanao said:


> Yeah, the mixamp/DSS is enough for them to game on, but listening to music on your pc/laptop without an amp/DAC, they will lack dynamics and clarity




Well this is a gaming thread after all


----------



## Decimator

rudyae86 said:


> If anything, just compare the review MLE has in the first page for the AKG K712 and X1 and figure out what to make of it. K712 is similar to the K7XX.
> 
> I owned the X1. It was nice and bassy for an open headphone but the bass was sloppy at times, mids a bit too much for my taste but overall a great headphone. K7XX seems to have a more controlled bass but doesnt hit as much as the X1, mids are more out foward than the X1. Its a well balanced headphone and I probably like it more than the X1........however, the X2 seems to be better than X1, but I dont own an X2, maybe later this year. So far my K7XX is my go to headphone for movies, music and games.


 
  
  


lenroot77 said:


> I have both and enjoy them very much.
> 
> The X1 bass is a little sloppy but it's fun sounding and the soundstage and positioning are good too. They are on the heavier side, but I wouldn't call them HEAVY. I have no problem wearing these for 4 hours at a time. The build quality and materials are top notch. These cans are Cadillacs.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


dakanao said:


> Yeah, the mixamp/DSS is enough for them to game on, but listening to music on your pc/laptop without an amp/DAC, they will lack dynamics and clarity


 

 Thanks for the input guys. I used to own the X2 and I thought it was a good all-rounder, but it just didn't excel in either being a competitive or fun headphone for me. Not a fault on the headphone, I was just constantly looking for more in the competitive and fun side of things. I was saving up for a TH900 setup, but decided that I'm going to get a 7.2 surround setup to satisfy both my competitive gaming and basshead needs and a more modestly priced headphone for gaming and movies at night. I do have a DSS laying around, but if I went with the AKG's I would pick up an Audio GD NFB-15, NFB-11, or schiit stack and run it to my soundblaster z. I would plug the headphones into the 7.2 receiver headphone jack, but I've read the amp section for the headphone jack isn't that great and it functions basically just as dac.


----------



## rudyae86

decimator said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I used to own the X2 and I thought it was a good all-rounder, but it just didn't excel in either being a competitive or fun headphone for me. Not a fault on the headphone, I was just constantly looking for more in the competitive and fun side of things. I was saving up for a TH900 setup, but decided that I'm going to get a 7.2 surround setup to satisfy both my competitive gaming and basshead needs and a more modestly priced headphone for gaming and movies at night. I do have a DSS laying around, but if I went with the AKG's I would pick up an Audio GD NFB-15, NFB-11, or schiit stack and run it to my soundblaster z. I would plug the headphones into the 7.2 receiver headphone jack, but I've read the amp section for the headphone jack isn't that great and it functions basically just as dac.


 

 I dont think the TH900 was meant for competitve gaming but would be great for Immersion or fun gaming, at least from what reviewers have said. Plus sound blaster Z has a 600ohm amp but if you want to use your own DAC/Amp, then go ahead and should yield you better results.
  
 Maybe you should have given the X2 some more listening time, trust me, the first time I listened to the X1, I wasnt impressed at first but my ears and brain got settled in that they sound pretty good.


----------



## Decimator

rudyae86 said:


> I dont think the TH900 was meant for competitve gaming but would be great for Immersion or fun gaming, at least from what reviewers have said. Plus sound blaster Z has a 600ohm amp but if you want to use your own DAC/Amp, then go ahead and should yield you better results.
> 
> Maybe you should have given the X2 some more listening time, trust me, the first time I listened to the X1, I wasnt impressed at first but my ears and brain got settled in that they sound pretty good.


 

 I would plug straight into the soundblaster z, but it has an output impedance of 22.11ohms, at least according to the source I found. If you go by the 1/8 rule, that eliminates a lot of headphones. I do regret selling the X2 when I did, probably only had somewhere between 60 and 80 hours on them, but I still don't think it would have changed enough for me to be completely satisfied with them.


----------



## Change is Good

Bought a new copy of Scholar of the First Sin for $40 on eBay and it arrived, this morning. Never played the last gen version, so this will be my first playthrough. Bloodborne left me thirsty for more torture, I guess... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'll be streaming tonight at about 8 or 9pm ET.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

mach3 said:


> Why not just get a PS4 stand with fan? Keeps your PS4 cool so it last longer and you'll get 4 usb ports.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fan-Grills-Filters-3-USB-Hub-with-Dual-Cooler-Fan-Charging-Stand-for-PS4-Console-/281460211150?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item418855fdce




Im only wanting to know if runing multiple things through a USB hub will affect my sound quality ?


----------



## krustybbr

Beyerdynamic DT990 premium 250 OHM for $ 239.99
  
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-dt990?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Tech%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Tech%20Active%20Product%20Announcement%202015-04-21&mode=guest_open


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn, the Euro is so weak that the DT990 Premium with 600 Ohm is almost cheaper than the above price. (it's 245 Dollars in Germany right now)


----------



## Yethal

You know what would be useful addition to the X7 firmware? Sepearation of line output and speaker terminals.
 I plugged my Magni (still hasn't found a new home) to the line output of the X7. Imagine my surprise when I heard the sound coming from all around me. Unfortunately, this was caused by my speakers playing simultaneously with headphones and not by Magni itself. Had to unplug the speakers to try that combo.


----------



## Evshrug

Seriously, what's wrong with plugging an amp into the headphone out, like we did with the old gaming DSPs? Just turn it up to like 80% (unless you need volume control), I doubt you'd hear a decrease in gaming quality. Across many headphones, I am starting to feel the X7 might be just a few dB brighter than perfection, but opamp rollinging (or my tube amp) ought to remedy such a small change.


----------



## maverickronin

evshrug said:


> Seriously, what's wrong with plugging an amp into the headphone out, like we did with the old gaming DSPs? Just turn it up to like 80% (unless you need volume control), I doubt you'd hear a decrease in gaming quality.


 
  
 +1
  
 Something like 3 years and probably 25K posts ago I posted measurements in here showing how that double amping of thing can _increase_ sound quality but I'm too busy to dig them up at the moment.
  
 To make a ling story short, dodgy hp outs have a much easier time driving the input of another amplifier than an actual pair of headphones.  Depending on the specific equipment you use it _may _increase the noise floor a bit but it will also reduce distortion as well.
  
 Moral of the story?  Double amp all you want.  It's usually a good thing if the first amp is weaksauce.


----------



## Hansotek

decimator said:


> rudyae86 said:
> 
> 
> > If anything, just compare the review MLE has in the first page for the AKG K712 and X1 and figure out what to make of it. K712 is similar to the K7XX.
> ...


 
  
 I would personally go with the X1 then, if you're going for something more "fun" than the X2... I personally don't really think the K7XX does positioning noticeably better than the AKG K7 series... so if you were dissatisfied with the X2, you're probably not going to be a whole world happier with the K7XX. I would commit to going "fun" with the X1, which still has great positional audio.
  
 Also, a couple pro-tips: 1.) AKGs really need juice to shine (IMO). If your HP jack won't be providing much of that, they won't have the dynamic punch to deliver what really makes them special. 2.) If you go with the X1, be sure to replace the crappy stock cable. It REALLY kills the sound. Seriously, I still can't wrap my head around what they must've been thinking with that cable. A $10 Monoprice cable does the job.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, probably because we dont wanna have to constantly go from the Headphone jack to the RCA one whenever we're NOT playing games? I use my X7 as a dac for my Vali when Im not playing games.

Unless you're telling me to seriously just leave the amp connected to the headphone jack for music listening, in which I'd tell you that how dumb a statement that is.

Having to constantly go from the X7's headphone jack, then swap to the RCA on the back is a pain in the ass. Something we shouldnt have to do if Creative just adds the headphone algorithm to the RCA output with a software toggle like they just added on the recent update to switch from headphone to speaker.


----------



## Decimator

hansotek said:


> I would personally go with the X1 then, if you're going for something more "fun" than the X2... I personally don't really think the K7XX does positioning noticeably better than the AKG K7 series... so if you were dissatisfied with the X2, you're probably not going to be a whole world happier with the K7XX. I would commit to going "fun" with the X1, which still has great positional audio.
> 
> Also, a couple pro-tips: 1.) AKGs really need juice to shine (IMO). If your HP jack won't be providing much of that, they won't have the dynamic punch to deliver what really makes them special. 2.) If you go with the X1, be sure to replace the crappy stock cable. It REALLY kills the sound. Seriously, I still can't wrap my head around what they must've been thinking with that cable. A $10 Monoprice cable does the job.


 
 I looked into the 7XX a bunch today and came to pretty much the same conclusion. The only other headphone I was considering was K612 due to it's better sub-bass presence, but it sounds like it has a neutral balance overall. It sounds like the X1 goes just as deep and would have much more bass presence, win win in my book.


----------



## Mach3

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Im only wanting to know if runing multiple things through a USB hub will affect my sound quality ?


 
 I'm using the same stand/hub. Haven't noticed any degraded sound quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

decimator said:


> I looked into the 7XX a bunch today and came to pretty much the same conclusion. The only other headphone I was considering was K612 due to it's better sub-bass presence, but it sounds like it has a neutral balance overall. It sounds like the X1 goes just as deep and would have much more bass presence, win win in my book.




While the 612 goes lower, it's not a bassy headphone by any means. It's very natural sounding. If you want more fun, the 612 is not it.


----------



## Hansotek

decimator said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I would personally go with the X1 then, if you're going for something more "fun" than the X2... I personally don't really think the K7XX does positioning noticeably better than the AKG K7 series... so if you were dissatisfied with the X2, you're probably not going to be a whole world happier with the K7XX. I would commit to going "fun" with the X1, which still has great positional audio.
> ...




The X1 goes pretty darn low and has a nice emphasis in the 40-80hz octave.. Which is an octave lower than where most HPs have their bass emphasis. It rolls off a bit in that 20-40hz octave, but you don't get a lot of info out of that range on anything that's not a planar anyway. I quite like it, and I'm a bassist, so I'm pretty hard to please.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/shure-srh1540-a-sure-bet/

My 1540 review is up. I'll do the guide-version soon, probably by tomorrow.


----------



## Mach3

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/shure-srh1540-a-sure-bet/
> 
> My 1540 review is up. I'll do the guide-version soon, probably by tomorrow.


 
 Wow sweet. Great write up as always.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/shure-srh1540-a-sure-bet/
> 
> My 1540 review is up. I'll do the guide-version soon, probably by tomorrow.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, probably because we dont wanna have to constantly go from the Headphone jack to the RCA one whenever we're NOT playing games? I use my X7 as a dac for my Vali when Im not playing games.
> 
> Unless you're telling me to seriously just leave the amp connected to the headphone jack for music listening, in which I'd tell you that how dumb a statement that is.
> 
> Having to constantly go from the X7's headphone jack, then swap to the RCA on the back is a pain in the ass. Something we shouldnt have to do if Creative just adds the headphone algorithm to the RCA output with a software toggle like they just added on the recent update to switch from headphone to speaker.


 
 X7 has two headphone outputs, although I can see why that could be troublesome. I leave both the senns and the beyers plugged in all the time because I'm just that lazy.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Something we shouldnt have to do if Creative just adds the headphone algorithm to the RCA output with a software toggle like they just added on the recent update to switch from headphone to speaker.


 
  
 I wonder why they changed it at all when it worked for the past 10 ******* years.
  
 EVERY X-Fi could output headphone mode of CMSS-3D to LINE OUT, JUST by having headphones selected in the Creative Panel. That was it, nothing more.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Unless you're telling me to seriously just leave the amp connected to the headphone jack for music listening, in which I'd tell you that how dumb a statement that is.
> 
> Having to constantly go from the X7's headphone jack, then swap to the RCA on the back is a pain in the ass. Something we shouldnt have to do if Creative just adds the headphone algorithm to the RCA output with a software toggle like they just added on the recent update to switch from headphone to speaker.




First of all, yeah, I think it's curious that Creative dropped support for outputting the headphone algorithm for all the outputs.

More importantly however, I absolutely was saying "don't use the RCA at all if it doesn't suit you." Totally use the headphone out for music. We're not talking about the front panel headphone jacks built into computer cases here... It's properly grounded, low distortion, low crosstalk, and it's capable for music. All you have to do in that case is push the SBX button on the front of the X7 to turn off processing.

I can understand with your over $1,000 gaming/movie headphones that you would like to squeeze out every last mL of quality out of your audio chain. For me, the difference is smaller than the convenience of just having it work, you know? I get home from work and I listen to music or play games to relax. I might roll a different opamp set into mine for a touch less brightness since I don't have dark headphones, but I really like just putting my headphones on and playing or pushing play.

Maybe with a different budget and lifestyle (free time) my values will change, but right now I'm happily mid-fi all the way. In a way, it's too bad because I have a hard time recommending some entry level stuff because they're usually harsh or muddy enough (or both) that I just don't get enough out of them, with a few exceptions, while universally my mid-fi stuff sucks me in and I get more out of it. You might be looking at the headphone jack the way I look at Bose triports or earbuds, but we both know that others can hear better setups yet still be happy with their entry level. So, I get you Mad, I just say you or *others* ought to try the headphone jack just to see if it's good output is good enough for you to still be happy


----------



## DangerClose

mad lust envy said:


> For $160, I would suggests the K612 instead, though a Xonar DG won't cut it.


 
  
 Just how powerful is a Xonar DG or DGX compared to a MixAmp anyway?  I saw a comment or two saying the DG/DGX is more powerful.  The reviews in the first post say a Q701 and 702 are fine with a MixAmp if not using voice, so the K612 must be even harder to drive.  I've looked around for a headphone ohm recommendation on the Mixamp's power capabilities but only found mentions of 32 ohms.  
  
 I'm trying to figure out if a DG/DGX is enough for things like DT990, DT880, or Q701.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I had the Xonar U3 which is an external equivalent to the DG. Not powerful at ALL.


----------



## PacoTaco

dangerclose said:


> Just how powerful is a Xonar DG or DGX compared to a MixAmp anyway?  I saw a comment or two saying the DG/DGX is more powerful.  The reviews in the first post say a Q701 and 702 are fine with a MixAmp if not using voice, so the K612 must be even harder to drive.  I've looked around for a headphone ohm recommendation on the Mixamp's power capabilities but only found mentions of 32 ohms.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if a DG/DGX is enough for things like DT990, DT880, or Q701.


 
 MLE pretty much covered it, but the K612 and its amigos are very inefficient headphones for dynamics. The Mixamp provides enough voltage, but the current is more than lacking. So, the headphone ends up clipping and sounds a bit more lifeless than it already does.
  
 The DG/DGX can drive...gaming headsets unless it's from Sennheiser. That is about it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

dangerclose said:


> Just how powerful is a Xonar DG or DGX compared to a Mix-Amp anyway?  I saw a comment or two saying the DG/DGX is more powerful.  The reviews in the first post say a Q701 and 702 are fine with a Mix-Amp if not using voice, so the K612 must be even harder to drive.  I've looked around for a headphone ohm recommendation on the Mix-amp's power capabilities but only found mentions of 32 ohms.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if a DG/DGX is enough for things like DT990, DT880, or Q701.


 
  
 The Xonar DG/DGX is very boder line for driving 250-Ohm Beyerdynamic headphones.
 I believe the Mix-amp comes with a slightly more powerful headphone amplifier, then the DG/DGX.
 Both the 62-Ohm AKG 7XX series and 120-Ohm AKG K612 Pro are more power hungry then their Ohm rating would lead you to believe.
 For a Windows PC, you would want at least something like the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card, for driving the headphones your looking at.
 Check out the (62-Ohm) AKG K7XX headphones, should find some used, but in mint condition, for around $200, easily worth the $200 I spend for them.


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> The Xonar DG/DGX is very boder line for driving 250-Ohm Beyerdynamic headphones.
> I believe the Mix-amp comes with a slightly more powerful headphone amplifier, then the DG/DGX.
> Both the 62-Ohm AKG 7XX series and 120-Ohm AKG K612 Pro are more power hungry then their Ohm rating would lead you to believe.
> For a Windows PC, you would want at least something like the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card, for driving the headphones your looking at.
> Check out the (62-Ohm) AKG K7XX headphones, should find some used, but in mint condition, for around $200, easily worth the $200 I spend for them.


 
 Xonar DG is actually really good when used as a DSP alone, it does have an optical out so it can always be upgraded with a standalone dac and amp


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Xonar DG is actually really good when used as a DSP alone, it does have an optical out so it can always be upgraded with a standalone dac and amp


 
  
 Depending on the headphone, it can add a metric **** ton of revurb. For 30$? It's a great little device. But my mobo has a Sound Blaster SBX stuff on it, so I just optical out that bitch to my NFB-28.


----------



## pinkfloyd1173

Hey guys quick question for you audio pros. I have a Astro 2gen mixamp and a pair of senn G4me Zeros, I have been reading around if I use this type of amp " Flio E12 Mont Blanc with the Astro mixamp it will provide enough power to the headset. 
  
 How would I go about connecting both amps together, I want to do this so I could use this on my PS4.
  
 Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> Depending on the headphone, it can add a metric **** ton of revurb. For 30$? It's a great little device. But my mobo has a Sound Blaster SBX stuff on it, so I just optical out that bitch to my NFB-28.


 
 That's really awesome but I'm pretty sure that mobo with Soundblaster integrated soundcard is not an entry-level stuff, and that is what Xonar DG is. On the other hand, having SBX integrated on the motherboard is pretty handy.


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> That's really awesome but I'm pretty sure that mobo with Soundblaster integrated soundcard is not an entry-level stuff, and that is what Xonar DG is. On the other hand, having SBX integrated on the motherboard is pretty handy.


 
  
 It's a MSI Gaming mobo. I believe the 3, while quite basic, is pretty entry level. I have a gaming 7 myself, and love the damn thing. However, I believe that feature is restricted to just MSI's mobos, so YYMV.


----------



## Stillhart

pinkfloyd1173 said:


> Hey guys quick question for you audio pros. I have a Astro 2gen mixamp and a pair of senn G4me Zeros, I have been reading around if I use this type of amp " Flio E12 Mont Blanc with the Astro mixamp it will provide enough power to the headset.
> 
> How would I go about connecting both amps together, I want to do this so I could use this on my PS4.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.


 
 Does your headset get loud enough with just the Mixamp?  If so, you probably don't need the E12.  If you'd like it to be louder, then yes, the E12 would work fine.  You just need a short 3.5mm interconnect to plug the E12 in-line between the headphone and the headphone port of the Mixamp.
  
 Example:  http://smile.amazon.com/Right-Angle-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-L17/dp/B00R9WAYC6
  
 This one is very very overpriced, but you get the idea.


----------



## PacoTaco

The G4me Zero is 50 ohms, but it's the same driver as the HD598...so amping would help the bass (which has an frequency AND phase impedance hump of 300 ohms around 100 Hz that gradual goes up from a starting point of 1000hz. The phase part of the headphone also has a huge amount of resistance starting at 300 ohms, dips into the 50 ohm category, then shoots back up to 300 again.)
  
 He doesn't even need an expensive amp. A 50 dollar used magni or O2 would do him wonders.


----------



## Sam21

amps aren't just for boosting the volume, they bring the headphones to their full potential, When I use a headphone with different amps, the headphone's sonic characteristics change from amp to amp, so bear in mind.


----------



## rudyae86

pacotaco said:


> The G4me Zero is 50 ohms, but it's the same driver as the HD598...so amping would help the bass (which has an frequency AND phase impedance hump of 300 ohms around 100 Hz that gradual goes up from a starting point of 1000hz. The phase part of the headphone also has a huge amount of resistance starting at 300 ohms, dips into the 50 ohm category, then shoots back up to 300 again.)
> 
> He doesn't even need an expensive amp. A 50 dollar used magni or O2 would do him wonders.




You mean the G4ME ONE. G4ME Zero is 150ohm just like the PC350 SE and is a closed back headaet. G4ME ONE is Open back just like the HD558/HD598 with 50ohm impedance.


----------



## Faceman

How do you guys think something like the XDuoo TA-01 DAC/AMP($135) would fair with the Philips Fidelio X1s?  I currently have a FiiO E10K, I'm pleased with it, but the price on the DAC/AMP listed above looks good and I can probably resell the FiiO for close to what I paid.


----------



## Stillhart

sam21 said:


> amps aren't just for boosting the volume, they bring the headphones to their full potential, When I use a headphone with different amps, the headphone's sonic characteristics change from amp to amp, so bear in mind.


 
  
 For some folks, getting optimal performance out of their gaming system isn't the goal.  When using oft-times compressed audio through a ****ty DAC, getting the "full potential" from your headphones is wasted effort.  If we're talking about FLAC files through a real DAC, I'm right there with you.  For gaming with a Mixamp, as long as your headphones are halfway decent and you can get the volume loud enough, I think that's good enough.
  
 IMO, YMMV, etc.


----------



## Faceman

Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro 250Ohm Headphones for $150 after $25 MIR, Free Shipping.


----------



## Change is Good

If anyone who was once interested in Driveclub, but turned off by its launch failures, it is a much more polished game now and is on sale for $20 brand new at Gamestop. Was streaming earlier, will do some more later tonight.


----------



## PurpleAngel

pinkfloyd1173 said:


> Hey guys quick question for you audio pros. I have a Astro 2gen Mix-amp and a pair of Sennheiser G4me Zeros, I have been reading around if I use this type of amp " FiiO E12 Mont Blanc with the Astro mix-amp it will provide enough power to the headset.
> How would I go about connecting both amps together, I want to do this so I could use this on my PS4.


 
  
 I would think the Astro Mix-amp could decently drive the 150-Ohm G4me Zero headphones.
 You can easily daisy chain a headphone amplifier off the Mix-amp, but I do not think it would improve (FPS?) gaming.


----------



## PurpleAngel

pacotaco said:


> The G4me Zero is 50 ohms, but it's the same driver as the HD598...so amping would help the bass (which has an frequency AND phase impedance hump of 300 ohms around 100 Hz that gradual goes up from a starting point of 1000hz. The phase part of the headphone also has a huge amount of resistance starting at 300 ohms, dips into the 50 ohm category, then shoots back up to 300 again.)
> 
> He doesn't even need an expensive amp. A 50 dollar used magni or O2 would do him wonders.


 
  
 The G4me Zero users the 150-Ohm driver, it's the G4Me One that uses the 50-Ohm driver.


----------



## Madkap

Hello everyone, I'm new to all this audiophile stuff. I happened to stumble upon it when a friend of mine let me listen to her surround sound setup and headphones. I was in awe in how much of a difference her headphones sounded to mine. Now I want to start getting into this audiophile hobby but I don't know where to start. I need a recommendation on some headphones for PC and PS4, and if I read correctly it's recommended for me to get an amp as well. I game on PC and PS4 equally and I would like to have a mic as well to chat. I have a budget around $300, flexible.
  
 Currently this is what I'm planning to buy:
  
 Audio Technica ATH-AD700X (I'm not sure yet)
 AntLion ModMic
 Astro Mixamp Pro
  
 If you have better suggestions please feel free to let me know, thank you.


----------



## Stillhart

madkap said:


> Hello everyone, I'm new to all this audiophile stuff. I happened to stumble upon it when a friend of mine let me listen to her surround sound setup and headphones. I was in awe in how much of a difference her headphones sounded to mine. Now I want to start getting into this audiophile hobby but I don't know where to start. I need a recommendation on some headphones for PC and PS4, and if I read correctly it's recommended for me to get an amp as well. I game on PC and PS4 equally and I would like to have a mic as well to chat. I have a budget around $300, flexible.
> 
> Currently this is what I'm planning to buy:
> 
> ...


 
  
 For surround on both PC and Console, you might consider getting a Recon3D instead.  I know there's at least one on the classifieds right now, and it'll be a lot cheaper than a new Mixamp.
  
 ModMic and AD700 should be a solid enough setup.  Do you do a lot of FPS games where you're more concerned about hearing footsteps than bass?  If so, the AT will be great.  If you want something a bit more immersive, there are better options.  I'm a fan of the AKG's, but they do like more amping than the Mixamp or Recon can provide.  Maybe something like the X1 + Boompro?


----------



## Madkap

Thank you for responding Stillhart. To answer your question, I don't play FPS games, though I am planning on buying MGS5 when it comes out and playing online. Regardless, I'm not too crazy about hearing footsteps so I guess something more immersive is ideal. The X1 + Boompro looks good but doesn't it need a amp of some sort? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pacotaco said:


> Depending on the headphone, it can add a metric **** ton of revurb. For 30$? It's a great little device. But my mobo has a Sound Blaster SBX stuff on it, so I just optical out that bitch to my NFB-28.




That's what Dolby Headphoe does. The DG doesn't add any extra reverb that isn't already on Dolby Headphone. Stick to room 2 and you get the Dolby Headphone everyone here is accustomed to.

I'd happily live with that reverb over plain stereo gaming 10 out of 10 times.


----------



## Stillhart

madkap said:


> Thank you for responding Stillhart. To answer your question, I don't play FPS games, though I am planning on buying MGS5 when it comes out and playing online. Regardless, I'm not too crazy about hearing footsteps so I guess something more immersive is ideal. The X1 + Boompro looks good but doesn't it need a amp of some sort? Thanks.


 
  
 The sound of the X1 will improve with an amp, yes.  However I would not say it needs it for gaming.  It will certainly get loud enough and an amp will give the bass a bit more control, which is great for music but maybe not needed for gaming.  I loved the crazy bass for gaming, less so for music.  So I guess it depends on how you see yourself using it.


----------



## Madkap

stillhart said:


> The sound of the X1 will improve with an amp, yes.  However I would not say it needs it for gaming.  It will certainly get loud enough and an amp will give the bass a bit more control, which is great for music but maybe not needed for gaming.  I loved the crazy bass for gaming, less so for music.  So I guess it depends on how you see yourself using it.


 

 Alright I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.


----------



## Bxtreme

Sort of on the same boat as Madkap - saw this post earlier today and started doing all sorts of research. I'm a PC gamer looking to use a pair of cans to play games (sometimes fps) and also enjoy some media.
  
 Thinking of pairing AKG K712's with sound blaster Z series card. Curious about something Envy, do you shut off surround mode on the creative control panel when you aren't gaming? I'm guessing you have all sources (games and windows) set to 5.1 or 7.1 and use creative control panel to downmix. Not sure if this doesn't sound appealing when listening to other types of media (music, movies, etc).


----------



## Stillhart

bxtreme said:


> Sort of on the same boat as Madkap - saw this post earlier today and started doing all sorts of research. I'm a PC gamer looking to use a pair of cans to play games (sometimes fps) and also enjoy some media.
> 
> Thinking of pairing AKG K712's with sound blaster Z series card. Curious about something Envy, do you shut off surround mode on the creative control panel when you aren't gaming? I'm guessing you have all sources (games and windows) set to 5.1 or 7.1 and use creative control panel to downmix. Not sure if this doesn't sound appealing when listening to other types of media (music, movies, etc).


 
  
 Yup, you got it.  Just flip it off when you're not gaming.  I have my music player setup to use WASPI exclusive mode so it bypasses the processing even if I forget and leave it on.


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone, here, familiar with gaming steering wheels? Trying to pick one up for Driveclub...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bxtreme said:


> Sort of on the same boat as Madkap - saw this post earlier today and started doing all sorts of research. I'm a PC gamer looking to use a pair of cans to play games (sometimes fps) and also enjoy some media.
> 
> Thinking of pairing AKG K712's with sound blaster Z series card. Curious about something Envy, do you shut off surround mode on the creative control panel when you aren't gaming? I'm guessing you have all sources (games and windows) set to 5.1 or 7.1 and use creative control panel to downmix. Not sure if this doesn't sound appealing when listening to other types of media (music, movies, etc).




Yes, once you're done playing, you toggle off the surround setting.

The only difference is that it's done by the program instead of windows. Just a different path to the same thing. Your music and stereo content will sound the same regardless of speaker set to 2.1 or 5.1, etc.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Anyone, here, familiar with gaming steering wheels? Trying to pick one up for Driveclub...


 
 I dont play drive club but I have a G27 coming in within the next few days. Its the best bang for buck wheel out there, though its a bit outdated but many still use it and its still supported. Been playing Assetto Corsa witha Controller, Dirt 3, GT6 and while it was fun, Im sure the G27 will make it even better for me. Cant wait for Project Cars though, 2 more weeks 
  
 If you want something more current and up to date, look for Thrustmaster T300 or T500 or one of Fanatec's steering wheels but are much more pricey


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can also use the OpenAL Plugin for Winamp to make the Creative Panel tick off SBX. Don't do it if you GAMEAMP!
  
 What's GAMEAMP? Listening to Winamp + playing the Game of your choice. A damn good audio experience.


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> You can also use the OpenAL Plugin for Winamp to make the Creative Panel tick off SBX. Don't do it if you GAMEAMP!
> 
> What's GAMEAMP? Listening to Winamp + playing the Game of your choice. A damn good audio experience.


 
  
 Oooh, didn't know about this.  Nice one!


----------



## inseconds99

All this talk about equipment and thousands of dollars spent on sound and no real talk about which games are the best examples of great sound. 

When you guys want to test your new headphone, amp/dac or soundcard, what games are you testing it with? What game has the best and most realistic reproduction of sound or what game is the most immersive?


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> All this talk about equipment and thousands of dollars spent on sound and no real talk about which games are the best examples of great sound.
> 
> When you guys want to test your new headphone, amp/dac or soundcard, what games are you testing it with? What game has the best and most realistic reproduction of sound or what game is the most immersive?


 
 If You're on PS4 then P.T is a pretty great game for audio testing


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> If You're on PS4 then P.T is a pretty great game for audio testing




Whatever system you personally use, I am gaming on my PC, when I am testing a game I am using CS:GO.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I've seen some amazing CS pros out there, but it's not in my top-10 best audio games. Not in file quality, positional quality, and the treble crack hurts my ears.
I go through a lot of games. I used to really like SWAT mode on Reach, CoD4, these days I enjoy the surround with Bloodborne, Destiny, P.T., Borderlands 2, The Last of Us, and basically any game I'm currently on a playthrough. Fegefeur really likes the sound quality of Mirror's Edge and Call of Prypriat, and Mad has often talked about (the CoD games and) a particular part of Red Faction where he can build buildings and destroy them over and over. NamelessPFG swears by classic games with OpenAL support, like Bioshock and even older games.

Inseconds99, been awhile since we saw you in this thread.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> Well, I've seen some amazing CS pros out there, but it's not in my top-10 best audio games. Not in file quality, positional quality, and the treble crack hurts my ears.
> I go through a lot of games. I used to really like SWAT mode on Reach, CoD4, these days I enjoy the surround with Bloodborne, Destiny, P.T., Borderlands 2, The Last of Us, and basically any game I'm currently on a playthrough. Fegefeur really likes the sound quality of Mirror's Edge and Call of Prypriat, and Mad has often talked about (the CoD games and) a particular part of Red Faction where he can build buildings and destroy them over and over. NamelessPFG swears by classic games with OpenAL support, like Bioshock and even older games.
> 
> Inseconds99, been awhile since we saw you in this thread.




Yea man, sorry bro had some crazy stuff going on in life since the last time we spoke. I've been on the forums here and there but generally not as much. I hope everyone is doing well, I have been out of the video game buying scene as I have basically not purchased a game since destiny in September of last year.

I finally made a decision on my end game headphone which is the HD800 and I will have on Tuesday. I want to pickup some games to put that soundstage to its test.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Destiny has some good testing audio cues as well. The waterfalls between Mothyards and Forgotten Shore are a highlight.


----------



## CapitaFK

I'm really loving this setup.


----------



## inseconds99

Can anyone comment on the sound of GTA 5 on PC or just in general? Looking for some recommendations on same games to test out my 800's and my X7.


----------



## Stillhart

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone comment on the sound of GTA 5 on PC or just in general? Looking for some recommendations on same games to test out my 800's and my X7.


 
  
 I quite liked the surround on Titanfall on the Xbone.  Never played the PC version, but I suspect it's decently cheap at this point.  Not only were the positional cues really good (I could easily tell where shots were coming from), but the BASS when you were near a titan was eye-rattling with the right headphones!  lol


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> I quite liked the surround on Titanfall on the Xbone.  Never played the PC version, but I suspect it's decently cheap at this point.  Not only were the positional cues really good (I could easily tell where shots were coming from), but the BASS when you were near a titan was eye-rattling with the right headphones!  lol




I agree on this I have titanfall for the PC, got it for $5 on sale and it does sound great. I never reinstalled it after I restored my PC 2 months ago, that bad boy is 50 gigs on my ssd lol.


----------



## abvolt

inseconds99 said:


> Can anyone comment on the sound of GTA 5 on PC or just in general? Looking for some recommendations on same games to test out my 800's and my X7.


 
  
 GTA 5 sounds great on pc this game is awesome I would say you'll really enjoy it with the x7 +800's good combo..


----------



## Change is Good

Why oh why am I putting myself through the torture of these 'Souls' games...

I love it!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Cod AW is the first COD i enjoyed soundwise. Was quite immersive and finally samples worthy of a COD

I quite liked rhe campaign. Used X7 and HD 800


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> Cod AW is the first COD i enjoyed soundwise. Was quite immersive and finally samples worthy of a COD
> 
> I quite liked rhe campaign. Used X7 and HD 800


 
 X7 is capable of driving the HD800? Wasn't it supposed to be good only for nondemanding headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X7 will work fine for the HD800. It has a 300ohm impedance, well within what the X7 can handle well. As for the huge impedance spike on the HD800, that may not be perfectly handled by the X7, but that would only result in less authority where the spike lives. 

In any case, I probably wouldn't consider the HD800 the best headphone for the X7's slight lean tilt. I'm sure Feg is using his own stuff in addition to the X7 anyways.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> The X7 will work fine for the HD800. It has a 300ohm impedance, well within what the X7 can handle well. As for the huge impedance spike on the HD800, that may not be perfectly handled by the X7, but that would only result in less authority where the spike lives.
> 
> In any case, I probably wouldn't consider the HD800 the best headphone for the X7's slight lean tilt. I'm sure Feg is using his own stuff in addition to the X7 anyways.




From everything I've gathered, this is correct. I will be purchasing a Valhalla 2 in the coming weeks once I recoup some money from the HD 800 purchase or sell my Fidelio X1 and boom pro mic which I have listed on the forums.


----------



## Madkap

inseconds99 said:


> From everything I've gathered, this is correct. I will be purchasing a Valhalla 2 in the coming weeks once I recoup some money from the HD 800 purchase or sell my Fidelio X1 and boom pro mic which I have listed on the forums.




You didn't like the X1/Boompro? I was planning on buying the exact same thing.


----------



## inseconds99

madkap said:


> You didn't like the X1/Boompro? I was planning on buying the exact same thing.




I liked it but my head is a little on he larger size and the x1's don't fit correctly. Plus I wanted an end game headphone and after I got my tax returns it was only a matter of time before I bought either the HD 800 or TH900.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X2 would fix your fit issues.The X1 was at it's absolute limit with my head AND metal bending. The X2 doesn't need anything.


----------



## Madkap

mad lust envy said:


> X2 would fix your fit issues.The X1 was at it's absolute limit with my head AND metal bending. The X2 doesn't need anything.



I might get the X2 instead then since my head isn't all that small. Does the Boompro mic work with the X2?


----------



## inseconds99

Too late for me, X1 is already for sale on the forums and the HD 800 is already on its way. Also I purchased the HD650 from that awesome Amazon deal and I find it to be better then the X1 to my ears in every way, also way more comfortable and lighter. My opinion of course.


----------



## Hansotek

Hey guys, I just saw the Out of Your Head folks are looking for Beta testers for their PC gaming virtual surround sound software. I'm a console guy, so I can't really take advantage of it, but figured someone here might be interested.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/689299/out-of-your-head-new-virtual-surround-simulator/480#post_11543287


----------



## gab840

mad lust envy said:


> X2 would fix your fit issues.The X1 was at it's absolute limit with my head AND metal bending. The X2 doesn't need anything.


 

 How Does X2 & Akg K712 fair up against each other as K712 also have all frequencies presented in a coherent manner as what I read from your review & with good soundstage & positional accuracy???


----------



## Change is Good

Just got my PS4 camera in, streaming with my 1540s if anyone wants to see how the alpha pads fit on my head and what not.

Beware, however, of ugly person wearing them.


----------



## CapitaFK

Anyone with the BoomPro getting lower sound quality compared to other cables?
  
 Voice quality is top notch. But as far as sound coming out goes, I notice bass is considerably woolier with the BoomPro than with my X2's stock cable.


----------



## Change is Good

capitafk said:


> Anyone with the BoomPro getting lower sound quality compared to other cables?
> 
> Voice quality is top notch. But as far as sound coming out goes, I notice bass is considerably woolier with the BoomPro than with my X2's stock cable.




If I remember correctly, Mad tested the output impedance on the Boompro and the results were not that good.


----------



## CapitaFK

change is good said:


> If I remember correctly, Mad tested the output impedance on the Boompro and the results were not that good.


 
  
 So same issue with the X1's stock cable? That sucks. Ah well, don't mind switching cables between activities. But would've been nice to still get the best quality sound with them on. Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, it has an absurdly high resistance. I forget if it was over 100ohms or 1000ohm, lol. But again, this is for chat gaming, and I feel the resistance may be due to the mic channel being in the mix and maybe needing a higher resistance.

In any case, you guys need to remember that cable resistance is subtle when it comes to sound changes. BoomPro included. It doesn't make a headphone sound like crap. It's just not as good as a standard cable. When you're voice chatting, it's not like you're listening to the game loudly to begin with.

As for KL712 and X2, the mids on the X2 are more integrated than the 712. The 712 has a bit of distance in the mids, so it's ot as flat as the X2 sounds. Otherwise, the K712 is a technically better headphone, with a larger soundstage.

Personally though, I like the tonality of the X2 more than the 712, and I feel it's not far behind in technicalities.

It'd take a lot for me to give up the X2 at this point. The 712 wouldn't be one I'd do it for.


----------



## Bxtreme

mad lust envy said:


> Yes, it has an absurdly high resistance. I forget if it was over 100ohms or 1000ohm, lol. But again, this is for chat gaming, and I feel the resistance may be due to the mic channel being in the mix and maybe needing a higher resistance.
> 
> In any case, you guys need to remember that cable resistance is subtle when it comes to sound changes. BoomPro included. It doesn't make a headphone sound like crap. It's just not as good as a standard cable. When you're voice chatting, it's not like you're listening to the game loudly to begin with.
> 
> ...




So you would suggest the X2's over the K712's for gaming and media? Im using it more so for gaming and im pretty close to pulling the trigger on the AKG's after research and reading your review. Also, im planning on using modi magni shciit stack - not sure if that alters the decision. And if it does, would another combo change that decision?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Magni and Modi.... A bit bright of a setup. The K712 has one problem for me, and it's the upper mid glare. The X2 is less fatiguing, but I'll still recommend the 712 for you.


----------



## CapitaFK

mad lust envy said:


> Yes, it has an absurdly high resistance. I forget if it was over 100ohms or 1000ohm, lol. But again, this is for chat gaming, and I feel the resistance may be due to the mic channel being in the mix and maybe needing a higher resistance.
> 
> In any case, you guys need to remember that cable resistance is subtle when it comes to sound changes. BoomPro included. It doesn't make a headphone sound like crap. It's just not as good as a standard cable. When you're voice chatting, it's not like you're listening to the game loudly to begin with.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks. And yeah, it's not a problem at all for gaming. Can't tell the difference in-game. I was more referring to listening to music, where double-bass drums ended up blending together. But I'll just use the stock cable for music, so no biggie. I absolutely love the X2 for everything I throw at it and can't imagine upgrading anytime soon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah I don't suggest keeping the BoomPro on when you're not chatting anyways.


----------



## Fegefeuer

inseconds99 said:


> From everything I've gathered, this is correct. I will be purchasing a Valhalla 2 in the coming weeks once I recoup some money from the HD 800 purchase or sell my Fidelio X1 and boom pro mic which I have listed on the forums.


 
  
 Everything Martiobionic Lasergalvanic Enforcer said is right. 
  
 Let me put it this way though. HD 800 will still show its strengths on the X7 and not bow to any other similar phone because it's underpowered. So as I said, I quite enjoyed Cod:AW for instance. Is it ideal? No, is it still damn good. Yes it is.
 I advise to get accustomed with X7 and HD 800 first for a good few months before you buy anything else. 
  
*PLUS WE NEED  THAT HEADPHONE SBXed BINAURAL STEREO SIGNAL TO LINE OUT FIRST ANYWAYS* before you buy a new amp and hook it up to the X7 to ENHANCE your gaming EXPerience. .


----------



## inseconds99

fegefeuer said:


> Everything Martiobionic Lasergalvanic Enforcer said is right.
> 
> Let me put it this way though. HD 800 will still show its strengths on the X7 and not bow to any other similar phone because it's underpowered. So as I said, I quite enjoyed Cod:AW for instance. Is it ideal? No, is it still damn good. Yes it is.
> I advise to get accustomed with X7 and HD 800 first for a good few months before you buy anything else.
> ...


 
 I will def take you up on that advice, you actually own the exact setup I am trying to achieve based on your signature. I want both the HD 800 and the TH 900 with basically the exact gear you have. I am halfway there!!


----------



## Sunrider6

capitafk said:


> Anyone with the BoomPro getting lower sound quality compared to other cables?
> 
> Voice quality is top notch. But as far as sound coming out goes, I notice bass is considerably woolier with the BoomPro than with my X2's stock cable.


 


mad lust envy said:


> Yes, it has an absurdly high resistance. I forget if it was over 100ohms or 1000ohm, lol. But again, this is for chat gaming, and I feel the resistance may be due to the mic channel being in the mix and maybe needing a higher resistance.
> 
> In any case, you guys need to remember that cable resistance is subtle when it comes to sound changes. BoomPro included. It doesn't make a headphone sound like crap. It's just not as good as a standard cable. When you're voice chatting, it's not like you're listening to the game loudly to begin with.


 

 Funny thing, I came here and was about to ask if my BoomPro was "defective" because of this.
  
 I'm really disappointed thought...really wanted to have my BoomPro as my only cable. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I don't want to swap cable when I play competitive or with friends with my X2.
  
 I think I'm gonna put back my old "on-desk" $3 mic (which was as good as the Boompro mic during my test), and sell the BoomPro.
  
 Thank you for answering him ^^


----------



## Change is Good

sunrider6 said:


> Funny thing, I came here and was about to ask if my BoomPro was "defective" because of this.
> 
> I'm really disappointed thought...really wanted to have my BoomPro as my only cable.
> I don't want to swap cable when I play competitive or with friends with my X2.
> ...




I swap cables all the time. Actually, all my headphones have an audio only cable/mic cable option. Even have a Neewer attached to one of my Shure cables for the 1540.


----------



## BeardHidesBoy64

hi. first of all, ive loved reading this post, really helpful 
  
 I am searching for a solution to my console gaming needs, what headphone set up would you suggest for competitive ps4 gaming that will deliver incredible surround sound, precise placement detection and nice punchy bass explosions and seperate the highs from the lows and the subtle from the extreme?

 the most important thing for me is surround sound  position and placement detection in competitive gaming and then any stellar pluses after that will round off a bonus package


----------



## PurpleAngel

beardhidesboy64 said:


> hi. first of all, ive loved reading this post, really helpful
> I am searching for a solution to my console gaming needs, what headphone set up would you suggest for competitive ps4 gaming that will deliver incredible surround sound, precise placement detection and nice punchy bass explosions and separate the highs from the lows and the subtle from the extreme?
> the most important thing for me is surround sound  position and placement detection in competitive gaming and then any stellar pluses after that will round off a bonus package


 
  
 Budget?
 For headphone surround sound for a gaming console, Astro Mix-amp is one option.
 The Sennheiser HD558 is good for surround sound gaming, but only a moderate amount of bass.
 Audio Technica ATH-AD900X, or the cheaper ATH-AD700X headphones.


----------



## BeardHidesBoy64

my budget initially is £200 so if that only covers the investment of the cans then so be it as i see it as a long term investment and my grandma always said buy cheap buy twice lol within a month i could add 150 to purchase any peripherals needed like amp/mic etc.
  
 ultimately i want to get the best competitive experience for the best price point i can 
  
 what is your opinion on the akg k701/ k702/ q701? as they have crept high up my list particularly the k701`s
  
 i like the look and popular opinion of all 3 you suggested


----------



## PurpleAngel

beardhidesboy64 said:


> my budget initially is £200 so if that only covers the investment of the cans then so be it as i see it as a long term investment and my grandma always said buy cheap buy twice lol within a month i could add 150 to purchase any peripherals needed like amp/mic etc.
> ultimately i want to get the best competitive experience for the best price point i can
> what is your opinion on the AKG k701/ k702/ q701? as they have crept high up my list particularly the k701`s
> I like the look and popular opinion of all 3 you suggested


 
  
 The AKG 700 series are popular with FPS gamers, I myself got the AKG K7XX headphones and they easily worth the $200 I spent for them, I use them for music and videos, but have not been into gaming lately.
 But the AKG 700 series are power hungry, a lot more then their low 62-Ohm rating would lead you to believe, so they need to be used with a decent headphone amplifier
 Some think the AKG headphones they are more power demanding then 250-Ohm Beyer headphones.
 Where as the 50-Ohm HD558 and 40-Ohm ATH-AD700X and 40-Ohm ATH-AD900X are easier to drive.
 I would say the AD900X are good music headphones that can also do well with FPS gaming
 The AD700Xs are fairly bass light, but everything else is nice about them (I own the older AD700s).
 The HD558 offers a little more bass then the AD700X


----------



## Chubupanda

Hi all so I'm in a predicament here and need some major help so to start off I first got to say this thread is amazing along with all the information it has given me.
  
 Now to jump into my problem, I am currently gaming on my PS4 with some old Turtle Beach X41's I got early in the last console generation and as much as they have served me well they are outdated in many ways including audio quality. So I've been doing a lot of research and I Just dont think I want another pair of gaming headphones. Now I'm wiling to drop about 300 maybe even 350 on an entirely new setup. For starters I definitely want the V-Moda boompro which is at most 50 now the only problem is headset. I really wanted the sennheiser hd 598 but the way its made doesn't allow you to use the boompro if I am correct so My question to you guys is what headset and mixamp combo would you recommend with the boompro for under 300-350? any help would be much appreciated. this has been a problem that's plagued me for the past few weeks and I feel like I am so close to the answers I need.


----------



## CapitaFK

chubupanda said:


> Hi all so I'm in a predicament here and need some major help so to start off I first got to say this thread is amazing along with all the information it has given me.
> 
> Now to jump into my problem, I am currently gaming on my PS4 with some old Turtle Beach X41's I got early in the last console generation and as much as they have served me well they are outdated in many ways including audio quality. So I've been doing a lot of research and I Just dont think I want another pair of gaming headphones. Now I'm wiling to drop about 300 maybe even 350 on an entirely new setup. For starters I definitely want the V-Moda boompro which is at most 50 now the only problem is headset. I really wanted the sennheiser hd 598 but the way its made doesn't allow you to use the boompro if I am correct so My question to you guys is what headset and mixamp combo would you recommend with the boompro for under 300-350? any help would be much appreciated. this has been a problem that's plagued me for the past few weeks and I feel like I am so close to the answers I need.


 
  
 Fidelio X2 with a BoomPro should be just within that budget.


----------



## PurpleAngel

chubupanda said:


> Hi all so I'm in a predicament here and need some major help so to start off I first got to say this thread is amazing along with all the information it has given me.
> 
> Now to jump into my problem, I am currently gaming on my PS4 with some old Turtle Beach X41's I got early in the last console generation and as much as they have served me well they are outdated in many ways including audio quality. So I've been doing a lot of research and I Just dont think I want another pair of gaming headphones. Now I'm wiling to drop about 300 maybe even 350 on an entirely new setup. For starters I definitely want the V-Moda boompro which is at most 50 now the only problem is headset. I really wanted the Sennheiser hd 598 but the way its made doesn't allow you to use the boompro if I am correct so My question to you guys is what headset and mixamp combo would you recommend with the boompro for under 300-350? any help would be much appreciated. this has been a problem that's plagued me for the past few weeks and I feel like I am so close to the answers I need.


 
  
 I would have gone for the Sennheiser HD558 and whatever mic works with it.
 The HD558 will sell for used under $100.
 Leaves a lot of leftover cash, like for buying more games for the PS4.


----------



## Yethal

chubupanda said:


> Hi all so I'm in a predicament here and need some major help so to start off I first got to say this thread is amazing along with all the information it has given me.
> 
> Now to jump into my problem, I am currently gaming on my PS4 with some old Turtle Beach X41's I got early in the last console generation and as much as they have served me well they are outdated in many ways including audio quality. So I've been doing a lot of research and I Just dont think I want another pair of gaming headphones. Now I'm wiling to drop about 300 maybe even 350 on an entirely new setup. For starters I definitely want the V-Moda boompro which is at most 50 now the only problem is headset. I really wanted the sennheiser hd 598 but the way its made doesn't allow you to use the boompro if I am correct so My question to you guys is what headset and mixamp combo would you recommend with the boompro for under 300-350? any help would be much appreciated. this has been a problem that's plagued me for the past few weeks and I feel like I am so close to the answers I need.


 
 It is possible to use the BoomPro with the HD598. Buy this:
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-2-5mm-Male-to-3-5mm-Female-Stereo-Audio-Headphone-Jack-Adapter-Converter-fo-/291334001775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item43d4dc146f
  
 and You're set.


----------



## meganeet

yethal said:


> It is possible to use the BoomPro with the HD598. Buy this:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-2-5mm-Male-to-3-5mm-Female-Stereo-Audio-Headphone-Jack-Adapter-Converter-fo-/291334001775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item43d4dc146f
> 
> and You're set.


 
 i don't think this will work, 598's 2.5mm has a locking mechanism


----------



## burritoboy9984

yethal said:


> It is possible to use the BoomPro with the HD598. Buy this:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-2-5mm-Male-to-3-5mm-Female-Stereo-Audio-Headphone-Jack-Adapter-Converter-fo-/291334001775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item43d4dc146f
> 
> and You're set.




He would only need a 3 pole, not a 4 pole however. Not sure if it fits in the 598 or not, but the headphones would only need to receive left right and ground as the boom pro would cutout the mic line.

Erik


----------



## Yethal

burritoboy9984 said:


> He would only need a 3 pole, not a 4 pole however. Not sure if it fits in the 598 or not, but the headphones would only need to receive left right and ground as the boom pro would cutout the mic line.
> 
> Erik


 
 Do it like this guy:
  
 http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=16461.2655


----------



## rogersjd14

I've read thru a lot of this thread...  I was hoping someone could point me in the general direction of what I'm looking for!
  
 I currently own the AudioTechnica ATH-AD700.  It has exceptional comfort.  It has zero bass.  I may be a closet basshead, and I have a ButtKicker attached directly to my office chair as I play games.
  
 I'm looking for endgame headphones for my gaming.  I appreciate quality sound, and I also love bass.  Let's assume price isn't an issue (ok, under $1500).  For gaming and overall quality, I've seen these suggestions:
  

DT990
Q701
HE560
  
  
 My requirements are:
  

Open headphones
Comfortable and not too hot for long gaming sessions
Decent bass
Great soundstage
  
  
 Any recommendations or suggestions would be appreciated.  I've been saving up for the HE-500s, but now that the 560s are out, they seem to be equally good, but lighter and more comfortable.  I'm not the type of person who has to spend the money just because I have it.  I'm willing to settle on a cheaper headphone if it meets my requirements!  Thanks again!
  
 John


----------



## Yethal

rogersjd14 said:


> I've read thru a lot of this thread...  I was hoping someone could point me in the general direction of what I'm looking for!
> 
> I currently own the AudioTechnica ATH-AD700.  It has exceptional comfort.  It has zero bass.  I may be a closet basshead, and I have a ButtKicker attached directly to my office chair as I play games.
> 
> ...


 
 It all depends on what hardware do You have to plug the headphones to. Most of them won't sound good out of motherboard integrated soundcard.


----------



## rogersjd14

yethal said:


> It all depends on what hardware do You have to plug the headphones to? Most of them won't sound good out of motherboard integrated soundcard.


 
 Sorry, I should have specified.  I have an O2 amp.  I'll be buying a sound card to act as a DAC as well.


----------



## Yethal

rogersjd14 said:


> Sorry, I should have specified.  I have an O2 amp.  I'll be buying a sound card to act as a DAC as well.


 
 It's much better idea to buy a cheap soundcard to act as a DSP only, and output processed signal to an external DAC via optical. Try Asus Xonar DG and whichever DAC with optical input You deem appropriate.


----------



## rogersjd14

yethal said:


> It's much better idea to buy a cheap soundcard to act as a DSP only, and output processed signal to an external DAC via optical. Try Asus Xonar DG and whichever DAC with optical input You deem appropriate.


 
 I've heard good things about some of the hardware-driven sound cards, but I digress...
  
 Any opinion on the headphones?


----------



## inseconds99

HD800's are in, I'll post some initial gaming opinions later or tomorrow. I will try to do my first mini review at some point in the future.


----------



## Yethal

rogersjd14 said:


> I've heard good things about some of the hardware-driven sound cards, but I digress...
> 
> Any opinion on the headphones?


 
 As for the soundcards, internal soundcard will be much more expensive than cheap soundcard + external dac + external amp of the same quality.
  
 I am a wrong person to ask, since I have heard only a few of them. @Mad Lust Envy would be a better person to ask, he listened to them all.


----------



## Chubupanda

yethal said:


> Do it like this guy:
> 
> http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=16461.2655


 
 You have no idea how badly I want to do it because I love sennheiser but I've done a lot of research on this and on top of having to remove the locking mechanism inside the sennheisers, which I would have been fine with, but the 2.5 to 3.5 adapters that you use for this aren't built well. I've heard multiple complaints of the mic going out when you wiggle the cable around a bit. now usually I wouldn't mind but I've already owned my fair share of ****ty headphones and for once I just want something that's built nice. thanks for trying o help me out though I really do appreciate it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rogersjd14 said:


> I've heard good things about some of the hardware-driven sound cards, but I digress...
> Any opinion on the headphones?


 
  
 The Asus Xonar DX sound card (used $50) comes with a nice CS4398 DAC chip 
 and Dolby Headphone surround sound.
  
 So disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, install the Xonar DX sound card, then install the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
 Then connect the O2 to the DX and your headphones to the O2
  
 I really like my AKG K7XX headphones, easily worth their $200 price (new or used).
  
 Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 600-Ohm headphones.
 current bid is $175.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/111653880368?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 I like the DT990 600-Ohm more then the DT990 250-Ohm version, but I would not pay more then $250 for the 600-Ohm version (new or used).
 Other wise might as well get used DT990 Pro 250-Ohm for $150?
  
 Philips Fidelio's seem to have well liked bass.


----------



## Chubupanda

capitafk said:


> Fidelio X2 with a BoomPro should be just within that budget.


 
  
  


purpleangel said:


> I would have gone for the Sennheiser HD558 and whatever mic works with it.
> The HD558 will sell for used under $100.
> Leaves a lot of leftover cash, like for buying more games for the PS4.


 
 I just want to thank both of you (and this entire website) for being so fast in responding to posts and comments. For starters unfortunately the V-Moda boompro is the only mic I'm interested in a the moment so I cant use sennheisers headphones but thank you so much for the suggestion. I was looking into the *Fidelio X2 *on amazon and saw I can get them in very good condition on amazon for around 240 but then I noticed I can also get the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for 170 so on one side I want to save money but on the other hand I don't even know how the M-100s stack up against the Fidelio X2. Can anyone help me out with this one I'm not sure which one is better?


----------



## PurpleAngel

chubupanda said:


> I just want to thank both of you (and this entire website) for being so fast in responding to posts and comments. For starters unfortunately the V-Moda boompro is the only mic I'm interested in a the moment so I cant use sennheisers headphones but thank you so much for the suggestion. I was looking into the *Fidelio X2 *on amazon and saw I can get them in very good condition on amazon for around 240 but then I noticed I can also get the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for 170 so on one side I want to save money but on the other hand I don't even know how the M-100s stack up against the Fidelio X2. Can anyone help me out with this one I'm not sure which one is better?


 
  
 Might try reading up and asking about the V-Moda's on this thread.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/592389/v-moda-m-100-discussion-feedback-reviews-pics-etc
  
 This eBay seller makes several aftermarket cables for Sennheiser headphones.
 Might try contacting them and see if they will make you an adapter for the Sennheiser/ V-Moda setup.
 http://www.ebay.com/usr/low20101020?_trksid=p2047675.l2559


----------



## martin vegas

rogersjd14 said:


> I've read thru a lot of this thread...  I was hoping someone could point me in the general direction of what I'm looking for!
> 
> I currently own the AudioTechnica ATH-AD700.  It has exceptional comfort.  It has zero bass.  I may be a closet basshead, and I have a ButtKicker attached directly to my office chair as I play games.
> 
> ...


 
 If you are used to your 700's, I would look at a pair of these and just spend your money on a decent soundcard if you need one!


----------



## CapitaFK

chubupanda said:


> I just want to thank both of you (and this entire website) for being so fast in responding to posts and comments. For starters unfortunately the V-Moda boompro is the only mic I'm interested in a the moment so I cant use sennheisers headphones but thank you so much for the suggestion. I was looking into the *Fidelio X2 *on amazon and saw I can get them in very good condition on amazon for around 240 but then I noticed I can also get the V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for 170 so on one side I want to save money but on the other hand I don't even know how the M-100s stack up against the Fidelio X2. Can anyone help me out with this one I'm not sure which one is better?


 

 I dunno, I might be biased. But I have owned the M100 before I got the X2 and, personally, it's not in the same league as the X2. It just sounded like a regular consumer headphone (Beats, Skullcandy, Bose) to me. Though it's definitely far more controlled in its frequencies than those other brands typically put out, just the sound signature wasn't my cup-o-tea. The bass is overwhelming. I'm not a basshead though, so that may be why I didn't like it. I know lots of people who love their M100 so I know it can't be as bad as I think it is.


----------



## Chubupanda

capitafk said:


> I dunno, I might be biased. But I have owned the M100 before I got the X2 and, personally, it's not in the same league as the X2. It just sounded like a regular consumer headphone (Beats, Skullcandy, Bose) to me. Though it's definitely far more controlled in its frequencies than those other brands typically put out, just the sound signature wasn't my cup-o-tea. The bass is overwhelming. I'm not a basshead though, so that may be why I didn't like it. I know lots of people who love their M100 so I know it can't be as bad as I think it is.


 
 I Think I understand what you mean, I'm not particularly a basshead either, in fact is the bass least of my worries, but let me run this by you because I don't think I ever specifically told you guys what I would be using this for. For the most part I play FPS games on my PS4 along with some RPG games (such as Fallout series, Elder scrolls series, and Witcher Series) which usually have nice surrounding ambiance and games such as Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy that usually have pretty epic orchestral pieces. so for the most part Im always trying to listen to my surrounding while every now and then taking in the world around me with the nice musical scores in the game. other than that music wise I generally listen to a broad spectrum everything from orchestras, Rock, House music, and pretty much everything in between but I usually dont get too bass heavy. So if you still think the X2's would be better for the applications ill be using it for than I guess I'm on board with spending a little extra.


----------



## Madkap

chubupanda said:


> I Think I understand what you mean, I'm not particularly a basshead either, in fact is the bass least of my worries, but let me run this by you because I don't think I ever specifically told you guys what I would be using this for. For the most part I play FPS games on my PS4 along with some RPG games (such as Fallout series, Elder scrolls series, and Witcher Series) which usually have nice surrounding ambiance and games such as Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy that usually have pretty epic orchestral pieces. so for the most part Im always trying to listen to my surrounding while every now and then taking in the world around me with the nice musical scores in the game. other than that music wise I generally listen to a broad spectrum everything from orchestras, Rock, House music, and pretty much everything in between but I usually dont get too bass heavy. So if you still think the X2's would be better for the applications ill be using it for than I guess I'm on board with spending a little extra.


 
 We're on the same boat here, I only play on PC and PS4, most of the stuff I play are RPG's but I play some shooter games like Far Cry and Metal Gear. So far what I have been reading is that the X2 are one the best headphones you can get for the price range. Plus you can attach the Boompro Mic if you use chat, though I read that it reduces  the headphone sound quality a bit. I'm super new to all of this, so I've been mostly reading posts and trying to learn all the lingo.


----------



## CapitaFK

chubupanda said:


> I Think I understand what you mean, I'm not particularly a basshead either, in fact is the bass least of my worries, but let me run this by you because I don't think I ever specifically told you guys what I would be using this for. For the most part I play FPS games on my PS4 along with some RPG games (such as Fallout series, Elder scrolls series, and Witcher Series) which usually have nice surrounding ambiance and games such as Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy that usually have pretty epic orchestral pieces. so for the most part Im always trying to listen to my surrounding while every now and then taking in the world around me with the nice musical scores in the game. other than that music wise I generally listen to a broad spectrum everything from orchestras, Rock, House music, and pretty much everything in between but I usually dont get too bass heavy. So if you still think the X2's would be better for the applications ill be using it for than I guess I'm on board with spending a little extra.


 
  
 I listen to almost strictly Rock and all its subgenres (Indie, Garage, Industrial, Post-Hardcore, Punk, Metal, etc.), some J-pop, as well as modern orchestra from games like Final Fantasy and Ragnarok Online. Maybe some EDM here and there when I'm in the mood for it.
  
 I play a lot of FPS, including CS 1.6 competitively way back when; along with CS:GO, BF3, Planetside 2, Bioshock, etc.
  
 I also absolutely love RPGs; particularly MMOs. Played FFXI religiously, WoW hardcore, FFXIV casually. Many traditional RPGs as well such as every FF in the series, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Valkyrie Profile, etc.
  
 The X2 is pretty much my favorite from all the ones I've owned currently and in the past. These include the K701, K712, HD598, HD600, HD650, DT770, DT880, Momentum, M50X, M100, HE-400, SRH840, etc.
  
 Perfect amount of Bass (lacking in the AKGs and Senns, too much in the DT770, M50, and M100; perfect on the HE-400).
  
 Fairly neutral Mids (too distant on the AKGs, too recessed on M50X, M100 and HE-400, perfect on the Senns)
  
 Decently airy and well-extended Treble (peaky in the Beyers, artificial on the AKGs, outright offensive in the HE-400, perfect on the HD600, too recessed on the HD650).
  
 I'm not saying it's the hands-down the best, and sound is definitely subjective, but I'm absolutely in love with it. It's the best for me. It's like Goldilocks. This one's just right for my tastes.


----------



## Chubupanda

capitafk said:


> I listen to almost strictly Rock and all its subgenres (Indie, Garage, Industrial, Post-Hardcore, Punk, Metal, etc.), some J-pop, as well as modern orchestra from games like Final Fantasy and Ragnarok Online. Maybe some EDM here and there when I'm in the mood for it.
> 
> I play a lot of FPS, including CS 1.6 competitively way back when; along with CS:GO, BF3, Planetside 2, Bioshock, etc.
> 
> ...


 
 No, I think I get what you're saying, but for the most part you have nearly the same taste as me even down to the occasional J-Pop and your selection of games. I think I will give these a try. thanks for all the help and thanks to anyone else who put forth there opinions in trying to help me.


----------



## Chubupanda

madkap said:


> We're on the same boat here, I only play on PC and PS4, most of the stuff I play are RPG's but I play some shooter games like Far Cry and Metal Gear. So far what I have been reading is that the X2 are one the best headphones you can get for the price range. Plus you can attach the Boompro Mic if you use chat, though I read that it reduces  the headphone sound quality a bit. I'm super new to all of this, so I've been mostly reading posts and trying to learn all the lingo.


 
 yeah I mean I would be worrie about the loss of quality but I can only imagine it only reduces the quality so much. besides im sure these are still better than my X41's but yeah I will definitely give these a try thank you so much for all your help.


----------



## Chubupanda

Alright so I think I may be an idiot, long story short I need a pair of headphones for for gaming, I was helped out by quite a few people on here and was told to get the Philips Fidelio X2 which would have been great because its every thing I wanted only there is one problem, its an open headphones which would have been amazing but I forgot I'm moving in a few months and will be living in a much smaller environment with other people and need to be quite.
  
 So here I am again, and once again I'll tell you wonderful people what I need and what I will be using it for.
  
*What I need:*
 So for starters I have a 300 dollar budget for both the V-Moda Boompro and a headset of choice. I can be a bit flexible on the pricing if you think I can get the headset for a deal but for the most part try to keep the headset under 300 dollars. It obviously has to be compatible with the boompro, and it also needs to be closed because as I said I'm an idiot and forgot I will be living cramped with a few other people. And it also needs to be better than my old turtle beach X41's but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be a problem if im going to be dropping close to 300 on a pair of well build headphones.
  
*What I'm using it for:*
 I'm primarily going to be using this to play games on my PS4 I mainly play two types of genres, FPS and RPG, for example I'll be playing things like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Rainbow Six, but then I will play games like GTA, Elder Scrolls, Witcher series, Bloodborne,  and Metal gear solid. SO on one end I have all these great Orchestral scores being made to try and have you immersed in these Role playing games, and on the other hand you have a game where you need to hear your surrounding and know where all these explosions are coming from. other than that Music wise I mainly listen to variants or Rock, some house and techno, a little bit of orchestral pieces, and the occasional indie/nu disco.
  
 Once again any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## Yethal

chubupanda said:


> Alright so I think I may be an idiot, long story short I need a pair of headphones for for gaming, I was helped out by quite a few people on here and was told to get the Philips Fidelio X2 which would have been great because its every thing I wanted only there is one problem, its an open headphones which would have been amazing but I forgot I'm moving in a few months and will be living in a much smaller environment with other people and need to be quite.
> 
> So here I am again, and once again I'll tell you wonderful people what I need and what I will be using it for.
> 
> ...


 
 Try the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. I bought it about two weeks ago and so far, I'm loving it.


----------



## Xander Shade

I mostly game on my PS4. So I was curious if Creative Sound Blaster E3 USB DAC/Amp Combo I saw on Massdrop would be a good investment for me.
  
 I would like to add that I do listen to a lot of music on my computer. I also game on on my PC, but not as much as I do on my PS4. I also watch movies on both systems.


----------



## Yethal

xander shade said:


> I mostly game on my PS4. So I was curious if Creative Sound Blaster E3 USB DAC/Amp Combo I saw on Massdrop would be a good investment for me.
> 
> I would like to add that I do listen to a lot of music on my computer. I also game on on my PC, but not as much as I do on my PS4. I also watch movies on both systems.


 
 If You're only going to play in stereo then it should work over USB.


----------



## godofcookery

Hello everyone this is my first post at head-fi!
  
 So i was looking into some upgrades for my ATH-900's which cracked recently. (which I mainly used for Games/Music/Movies, in order of priority), I plan to repair and keep those, but I was hoping to find out some information about a pair of Closed Back Headphones that might do the trick.    So my requirement are:
  
 $400 - $600 Budget
 Closed Back Headphone
 Wide soundstage for a Close Back
  
 I currently have a regular old Sound Blaster Z installed on my desktop.  I am looking to upgrade to the ZxR someday, or maybe if I lose my mind, and want the extra convenience, the X7. 
  
 Right now I have a pair of Shure 1540s on order, but I haven't opened them yet, and I was looking for other suggestions.  the MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs seemed like a good option as well. Anyone have any recommendations for this kind of need?


----------



## PurpleAngel

godofcookery said:


> Hello everyone this is my first post at head-fi!
> So i was looking into some upgrades for my ATH-900's which cracked recently. (which I mainly used for Games/Music/Movies, in order of priority), I plan to repair and keep those, but I was hoping to find out some information about a pair of Closed Back Headphones that might do the trick.    So my requirement are:
> $400 - $600 Budget
> Closed Back Headphone
> ...


 
  
 Used Audio Technica ATH-W1000X, for $316
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/251934809140?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 The W1000X's are what I upgraded to (from a ATH-A900X).


----------



## godofcookery

purpleangel said:


> Used Audio Technica ATH-W1000X, for $316
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251934809140?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> The W1000X's are what I upgraded to (from a ATH-A900X).


 
  
 do you feel like I might be going to far off the reservation by choosing the ones that listed in my post?


----------



## godofcookery

purpleangel said:


> Used Audio Technica ATH-W1000X, for $316
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251934809140?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> The W1000X's are what I upgraded to (from a ATH-A900X).


 
 do you feel that the ones i mentioned in my post above are too much of a jump from what i currently have?


----------



## godofcookery

purpleangel said:


> Used Audio Technica ATH-W1000X, for $316
> 
> The W1000X's are what I upgraded to (from a ATH-A900X).


 
  
 do you feel that the ones i mentioned in my post above might be too much of a jump up from what I am coming from?


----------



## Chubupanda

yethal said:


> Try the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. I bought it about two weeks ago and so far, I'm loving it.


 
 thanks, yeah I will definitely consider these, also how are the V-Moda M-100's just curious because I don't hear many people talk about them and I Noticed they were closed headphones as well. Do they stack up against the beyerdynamics at all? Also How would I go about using a mix amp to get surround sound on the ps4 with any of these headphones? and which mix amp should I even get? there is so much to audio it hurts my brain.


----------



## PacoTaco

godofcookery said:


> Hello everyone this is my first post at head-fi!
> 
> So i was looking into some upgrades for my ATH-900's which cracked recently. (which I mainly used for Games/Music/Movies, in order of priority), I plan to repair and keep those, but I was hoping to find out some information about a pair of Closed Back Headphones that might do the trick.    So my requirement are:
> 
> ...




Personally, I'd avoid the Alpha Dog. They're not lively enough for gaming. The ZMF Vibros are a good mid heavy and bassy bet. The TH600 by Fostex would be a better buy than the 1560s if you can find a B-stock somewhere (and they can be driven by your sound card.)

If you do go for an Alpha Dog or Vibro, you'll have to upgrade your equipment. A optical modi 2 and Magni 2 would be a great bet. Just output optical from the Soundblaster to the Modi so that you can get the SBX surround without having to sacrifice fidelity from double amping.

Other than that, avoid the Beyerdynamic T70p. If you have a normal or small head, he blue MoFi is another surprisingly good choice.


----------



## godofcookery

pacotaco said:


> Personally, I'd avoid the Alpha Dog. They're not lively enough for gaming. The ZMF Vibros are a good mid heavy and bassy bet. The TH600 by Fostex would be a better buy than the 1560s if you can find a B-stock somewhere (and they can be driven by your sound card.)
> 
> If you do go for an Alpha Dog or Vibro, you'll have to upgrade your equipment. A optical modi 2 and Magni 2 would be a great bet. Just output optical from the Soundblaster to the Modi so that you can get the SBX surround without having to sacrifice fidelity from double amping.
> 
> Other than that, avoid the Beyerdynamic T70p. If you have a normal or small head, he blue MoFi is another surprisingly good choice.


 
  
 Thanks so much for the recommendations!  I am going to try out the Shure 1540s and Alpha Dogs (they have a restocking fee, but I am willing to swallow it if necessary (though I will definitely keep your suggestions about upgraded equipment in mind, in fact, I may have to refuse delivery as I think that plus the extra equipment jumps me out of my budget).  I will also give the Fostex a try, there seems to be some from a seller on Amazon.com.


----------



## AxelCloris

pacotaco said:


> Personally, I'd avoid the Alpha Dog. *They're not lively enough for gaming.* The ZMF Vibros are a good mid heavy and bassy bet. The TH600 by Fostex would be a better buy than the 1560s if you can find a B-stock somewhere (and they can be driven by your sound card.)
> 
> If you do go for an Alpha Dog or Vibro, you'll have to upgrade your equipment. A optical modi 2 and Magni 2 would be a great bet. Just output optical from the Soundblaster to the Modi so that you can get the SBX surround without having to sacrifice fidelity from double amping.
> 
> Other than that, avoid the Beyerdynamic T70p. If you have a normal or small head, he blue MoFi is another surprisingly good choice.


 
  
 I'm going to have to disagree completely with this statement. I found the Alpha Dog a great gaming can. So did MLE. ZMF Vibros should also make a nice fun headphone for gaming but the soundstage isn't as big as the Alphas.
  
 Personally in the $600 budget my recommendations would be the Alpha Dogs, 1540, or possibly the TH600 though I haven't heard the latter. MLE quite liked it. And don't be afraid to buy used, you could save $125 or more on a pair of used Alphas.


----------



## PurpleAngel

godofcookery said:


> Do you feel that the ones i mentioned in my post above might be too much of a jump up from what I am coming from?


 
  
 As long as your wallet can handle it, guess you can jump as high as you want.
 Yea it's a high jump, but I'm guessing the SRH1540 are really nice sounding headphones.
 The most I've paid for headphones is $325 and that was for used (T70), I got my ATH-W1000Xs used for $285 and that was a great price.


----------



## godofcookery

axelcloris said:


> I'm going to have to disagree completely with this statement. *I found the Alpha Dog a great gaming can*. So did MLE. ZMF Vibros should also make a nice fun headphone for gaming but the soundstage isn't as big as the Alphas.
> 
> Personally in the $600 budget my recommendations would be the Alpha Dogs, 1540, or possibly the TH600 though I haven't heard the latter. MLE quite liked it. And don't be afraid to buy used, you could save $125 or more on a pair of used Alphas.


 
  
 I am guessing when you listened to them at the time you had proper equipment to drive them? I am hearing from multiple sources that the Sound Blaster Z is not quite enough to drive them properly.


----------



## Stillhart

godofcookery said:


> I am guessing when you listened to them at the time you had proper equipment to drive them? I am hearing from multiple sources that the Sound Blaster Z is not quite enough to drive them properly.


 
  
 The DAC is the Z is decent, but it could really use some help in the amp department.  You might look into picking up a cheap used Schiit amp (or any of the ones listed in the guide, really) for under $100.


----------



## PurpleAngel

godofcookery said:


> I am guessing when you listened to them at the time you had proper equipment to drive them? I am hearing from multiple sources that the Sound Blaster Z is not quite enough to drive them properly.


 
  
 You can get an external DAC/amp and connect it to the SB-Z's optical port (with an optical input DAC) and still be able to use the SB-Z features, like SBX headphone surround sound.
 Maybe find a used Schiit Modi DAC (optical) and a used Magni amplifier, then spend the rest of your budget on headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

purpleangel said:


> You can get an external DAC/amp and connect it to the SB-Z's optical port (with an optical input DAC) and still be able to use the SB-Z features, like SBX headphone surround sound.
> Maybe find a used Schiit Modi DAC (optical) and a used Magni amplifier, then spend the rest of your budget on headphones.


 
  
 The Modi doesn't offer any benefit over the built-in DAC from the Z.  I tested it myself with my Omni.  I wouldn't waste the money.  
  
 If you're going to go down that route, you'll to jump up to a higher price point DAC like the NFB-15.  If you're not looking to spend that much, I'd start with just an amp and go from there.


----------



## godofcookery

stillhart said:


> The Modi doesn't offer any benefit over the built-in DAC from the Z.  I tested it myself with my Omni.  I wouldn't waste the money.
> 
> If you're going to go down that route, you'll to jump up to a higher price point DAC like the NFB-15.  If you're not looking to spend that much, I'd start with just an amp and go from there.


 
  
 Well both other posts seem to imply that if I wanted to use SBX features that an external DAC w/ an AMP would be the way to go.  Can I still do that w/o the external DAC?


----------



## Stillhart

godofcookery said:


> Well both other posts seem to imply that if I wanted to use SBX features that an external DAC w/ an AMP would be the way to go.  Can I still do that w/o the external DAC?


 
  
 Yes, you can do that without an external DAC.
  
 Here's the heirarchy of upgrades for PC gaming:
  
 1 - Sound Card only - This gives you a basic DAC, basic amp, and surround processing.  It's going to sound at least as good as any console device like the Mixamp.
  
 2 - Sound Card + Amp - This gives you much more power output so that you can drive pretty much any headphone to reasonable volume and provide enough current to make them sound their best.  You still get the basic DAC and surround processing.
  
 3 - Sound Card + Amp + DAC - This gives you all of the above plus a better DAC to make your background blacker and give better separation and imaging (assuming the DAC you choose is an upgrade to what you're already using).  If you want to use a DAC and still have the surround processing from your sound card, you'll need a DAC with an optical input.  The cheapest one you can buy is the Schiit Modi but, as I mentioned, it's not any better than what's in your sound card.
  
 Hope this helps.


----------



## Chubupanda

Hey guys, so most of you have really helped me out quite a bit but really quickly, PS4 gaming with V-Moda Boompro, closed headphone because I need to be really quiet at night, what should I get, V-moda M-100, Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, or any other closed Headphone in the 300 dollar range that I missed? I'm coming from having Turtle Beach X41's so I'm sure any of these will sound better I just want to try and get the best one possible.
  
 I'll be using a mix amp for surround sound later on down the road but for now I/m just looking for the right headphones.


----------



## godofcookery

stillhart said:


> Yes, you can do that without an external DAC.
> 
> Here's the heirarchy of upgrades for PC gaming:
> 
> ...


 
  
 stellar.  thanks so much for being courteous w/ what is obviously repeat information for so many on this forum.
  
 edit: though I will say that I guess have I have to go from my headphone out to the amp right?  I dont see a "line out" at all.


----------



## Stillhart

chubupanda said:


> Hey guys, so most of you have really helped me out quite a bit but really quickly, PS4 gaming with V-Moda Boompro, closed headphone because I need to be really quiet at night, what should I get, V-moda M-100, Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, or any other closed Headphone in the 300 dollar range that I missed? I'm coming from having Turtle Beach X41's so I'm sure any of these will sound better I just want to try and get the best one possible.
> 
> I'll be using a mix amp for surround sound later on down the road but for now I/m just looking for the right headphones.


 
  
 You might also consider the SoundMAGIC HP100/150.  I find them to have a very good soundstage for closed cans.  The only thing is they won't work with the Boompro unless you want to mod your Boompro a bit (i.e. shave off some of the plastic so it fits in the proprietary receptacle of the HP100).
  


godofcookery said:


> stellar.  thanks so much for being courteous w/ what is obviously repeat information for so many on this forum.


 
  
 My pleasure.  I was in your exact same position not much more than a year ago.  I do my best to pay it forward.


----------



## PurpleAngel

stillhart said:


> The Modi doesn't offer any benefit over the built-in DAC from the Z.  I tested it myself with my Omni.  I wouldn't waste the money.
> If you're going to go down that route, you'll to jump up to a higher price point DAC like the NFB-15.  If you're not looking to spend that much, I'd start with just an amp and go from there.


 
  
 If his setup was only for music, then he could just get the Magni and plug it into the SB-Z front speaker jack, use the SB-Z's CS4398 DAC chip.
 I would assume the SB-Z front speaker jack would provide a slightly better signal for the Magni, over plugging the Magni into the SB-Z's amplified headphone jack.
 But as he is into gaming and I would assume he would need the SB-Z's SBX headphone feature, the Modi would provide a cleaner signal to the Modi, then the SB-Z's Headphone jack.
 But I would rather have him spend the extra cash for the NFB-15 ($315 shipped).


----------



## godofcookery

purpleangel said:


> If his setup was only for music, then he could just get the Magni and plug it into the SB-Z front speaker jack, use the SB-Z's CS4398 DAC chip.
> I would assume the SB-Z front speaker jack would provide a slightly better signal for the Magni, over plugging the Magni into the SB-Z's amplified headphone jack.
> But as he is into gaming and I would assume he would need the SB-Z's SBX headphone feature, the Modi would provide a cleaner signal to the Modi, then the SB-Z's Headphone jack.
> But I would rather have him spend the extra cash for the NFB-15 ($315 shipped).


 
 I see the logic now.  I could have the heapdhone jack go straight into an amp, but the signal would be compromised in some fashion, though i would still get the SBX features this way.  
 OTOH, if I went w/ an external DAC through the optical of the SBZ i could still benefit from the SBX headphone effects through a cleaner signal, it would just cost me more money to do that.


----------



## Stillhart

purpleangel said:


> If his setup was only for music, then he could just get the Magni and plug it into the SB-Z front speaker jack, use the SB-Z's CS4398 DAC chip.
> I would assume the SB-Z front speaker jack would provide a slightly better signal for the Magni, over plugging the Magni into the SB-Z's amplified headphone jack.
> But as he is into gaming and I would assume he would need the SB-Z's SBX headphone feature, the Modi would provide a cleaner signal to the Modi, then the SB-Z's Headphone jack.
> But I would rather have him spend the extra cash for the NFB-15 ($315 shipped).


 
  
 I'm a bit confused by that sentiment.  You're saying he'd want a better cleaner signal for gaming than for music?  In my mind, it's the opposite. 
  
 Regardless, you are correct that his two options for surround are optical output and the headphone output.  Sure double amping the headphone out isn't optimal, but it's not terrible either.  And as I said, I heard no difference between double amping my headphone jack and using an Optimodi.
  
 And I agree that the NFB-15 is the next logical step.  It's the one I did and I don't regret it at all.  But that's jumping from a $100 Magni to a $300 device.  Guess it depends on the budget and such.


----------



## godofcookery

> My pleasure.  I was in your exact same position not much more than a year ago.  I do my best to pay it forward.


 
  
 nice


stillhart said:


> I'm a bit confused by that sentiment.  You're saying he'd want a better cleaner signal for gaming than for music?  In my mind, it's the opposite.
> 
> Regardless, you are correct that his two options for surround are optical output and the headphone output.  Sure double amping the headphone out isn't optimal, but it's not terrible either.  And as I said, I heard no difference between double amping my headphone jack and using an Optimodi.
> 
> And I agree that the NFB-15 is the next logical step.  It's the one I did and I don't regret it at all.  But that's jumping from a $100 Magni to a $300 device.  Guess it depends on the budget and such.


 
  
 should i even worry about double amping if i have no frame of reference as to its potential issues?


----------



## Stillhart

godofcookery said:


> nice
> 
> should i even worry about double amping if i have no frame of reference as to its potential issues?


 
  
 The issue is that it may potentially degrade the sound a bit.  In my experience, the gains from amping (vs not amping) outweighed any losses from double-amping.  It was a net positive.  But I was also using the Q701, which really should be amped to get the most out of it.  Depending on your headphones, it may not be so cut and dry.
  
 I forget, what was your budget for the whole shebang?  Something like an NFB-15 + X2 + Boompro could keep you happy for a VERY long time.  And I just noticed that AWD has the X2 for $239 (if you don't mind getting an open-box model).  That's about $600 for the lot (more if you pay full price for the X2, less if you find a used NFB-15).
  
 EDIT - And BTW, no disrespect meant to @PurpleAngel .  He helped me a lot when I was new and I respect his opinions.  I just wanted to point out that my experience didn't quite match up to his.


----------



## Chubupanda

stillhart said:


> You might also consider the SoundMAGIC HP100/150.  I find them to have a very good soundstage for closed cans.  The only thing is they won't work with the Boompro unless you want to mod your Boompro a bit (i.e. shave off some of the plastic so it fits in the proprietary receptacle of the HP100).


 
 Yeah I looked at them but unfortunately I didn't want to shave off any of the mic. I'm just stuck between the two Headphones for gaming. thank you for your input though.
  
 If anyone can point me in a direction as to whether or not I should get the V-moda M-100 or the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro for my ps4 with the use of a boompro?


----------



## PurpleAngel

godofcookery said:


> I see the logic now.  I could have the headphone jack go straight into an amp, but the signal would be compromised in some fashion, though i would still get the SBX features this way.
> OTOH, if I went w/ an external DAC through the optical of the SB-Z i could still benefit from the SBX headphone effects through a cleaner signal, it would just cost me more money to do that.


 
  
 Some people have hooked up external headphone amplifiers to the SB-Z's headphone jack have been happy with the audio quality, so it's really does not seem to be a big deal if you hook the amp to the SB-Z headphone jack.
 My best guess is the Front Speaker jack on the SB-Z, being a dedicated line-output jack, might send a external headphone amplifier, at least a slightly better analog audio signal, for the external headphone amplifier to use.
 The SB-Z can not send SBX headphone surround sound thru the front speaker jacks, just a 2-channel stereo audio speaker signal, which is just fine for music.


----------



## PurpleAngel

stillhart said:


> I'm a bit confused by that sentiment.  You're saying he'd want a better cleaner signal for gaming than for music?  In my mind, it's the opposite.
> Regardless, you are correct that his two options for surround are optical output and the headphone output.  Sure double amping the headphone out isn't optimal, but it's not terrible either.  And as I said, I heard no difference between double amping my headphone jack and using an Optimodi.
> And I agree that the NFB-15 is the next logical step.  It's the one I did and I don't regret it at all.  But that's jumping from a $100 Magni to a $300 device.  Guess it depends on the budget and such.


 
  
 The SB-Z can not send SBX headphone surround sound thru the Front Speaker jack, just basic stereo audio, which fine for music.
 I'm not against anyone using the SB-Z's headphone jack for connecting to an external headphone amplifier, just think the SB-Z's front speaker jack or the Modi analog output jacks, might provide a slightly better signal to the external amp.
 Just with the Modi he is getting a DAC away from the inside of the computer case, and inside the case there might be electrical noise that might effect  the signal.
 And the SB-Z can send both music and SBX thru the optical port.


----------



## godofcookery

stillhart said:


> The issue is that it may potentially degrade the sound a bit.  In my experience, the gains from amping (vs not amping) outweighed any losses from double-amping.  It was a net positive.  But I was also using the Q701, which really should be amped to get the most out of it.  Depending on your headphones, it may not be so cut and dry.
> 
> I forget, what was your budget for the whole shebang?  Something like an NFB-15 + X2 + Boompro could keep you happy for a VERY long time.  And I just noticed that AWD has the X2 for $239 (if you don't mind getting an open-box model).  That's about $600 for the lot (more if you pay full price for the X2, less if you find a used NFB-15).
> 
> EDIT - And BTW, no disrespect meant to @PurpleAngel .  He helped me a lot when I was new and I respect his opinions.  I just wanted to point out that my experience didn't quite match up to his.


 
  
 The top end of the budget was ~$600.  Now the headphones have to be closed back for my living situation. the X2 are open so that nixes those.  I could just go w/ the shures or an higher model pair of ATs (if they are acoustically similar, but yknow... "better").  But if I am going to amp the Mad Dogs could be a plausible solution for a about $100 over my projected budget.


----------



## Stillhart

godofcookery said:


> The top end of the budget was ~$600.  Now the headphones have to be closed back for my living situation. the X2 are open so that nixes those.  I could just go w/ the shures or an higher model pair of ATs (if they are acoustically similar, but yknow... "better").  But if I am going to amp the Mad Dogs could be a plausible solution for a about $100 over my projected budget.



Hmmm... Well I know mad dogs are pretty closed sounding ; they're great for music but not so much for gaming IMO. I'd probably stick with the shure or alpha dog, then get a cheap (but decent) amp.


----------



## godofcookery

stillhart said:


> Hmmm... Well I know mad dogs are pretty closed sounding ; they're great for music but not so much for gaming IMO. I'd probably stick with the shure or alpha dog, then get a cheap (but decent) amp.


 
 yea, I also got some other suggestions that sound pretty good, so maybe I will look into those as well.  Either way I should get the Shure's in tomorrow night.  Although my impressions come from fairly unsophisticated listening skills, I will do my best to post some to add to the collective.


----------



## PacoTaco

purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z can not send SBX headphone surround sound thru the Front Speaker jack, just basic stereo audio, which fine for music.
> I'm not against anyone using the SB-Z's headphone jack for connecting to an external headphone amplifier, just think the SB-Z's front speaker jack or the Modi analog output jacks, might provide a slightly better signal to the external amp.
> Just with the Modi he is getting a DAC away from the inside of the computer case, and inside the case there might be electrical noise that might effect  the signal.
> And the SB-Z can send both music and SBX thru the optical port.




Yah, you want the sound processed away from the computer unless you have a decently power efficient mobo and psu.




axelcloris said:


> I'm going to have to disagree completely with this statement. I found the Alpha Dog a great gaming can. So did MLE. ZMF Vibros should also make a nice fun headphone for gaming but the soundstage isn't as big as the Alphas.
> 
> Personally in the $600 budget my recommendations would be the Alpha Dogs, 1540, or possibly the TH600 though I haven't heard the latter. MLE quite liked it. And don't be afraid to buy used, you could save $125 or more on a pair of used Alphas.




I was speaking from personal experience. It also depends on when you bought the Alpha Dogs. I got them a month before the Primes came out, and they were incredibly dark and mostly bass focused. The Vibro and the Alpha Dog have very similar soundstages, with the Vibro being more intimate due to the more forward mids and immersive due to the slow-to-decay bass once all the ports are open. The primes could make vastly better gaming games than the Alpha Dog due to its deep, bassy sound, but that treble spike makes it very, very fatiguing after awhile. Well, that and it's vastly overpriced for something measures so eerily close to the mad dog and manages to have a worse impulse response than the Alpha Dogs.

I personally feel with the current headphones on the market, the Alpha Dog is mostly outdone on the gaming front by the Vibro (w/ Blackwood mods,) TH600, HE400i, a used T1 (which is the best competitive headphone I've ever owned,) and the X2.




godofcookery said:


> I am guessing when you listened to them at the time you had proper equipment to drive them? I am hearing from multiple sources that the Sound Blaster Z is not quite enough to drive them properly.




The Soundblaster can't drive a planar unless it happens to be an Oppo headphone.


----------



## Chubupanda

Does anyone know if I can use a V-moda boompro/headphone setup with my Sound Blaster E5's to talk to people on the PS4? I don't know how any of this **** works. One of my friend s just gave me this amp saying he didn't need it anymore, but I have no Idea how any of this stuff works or if I can even use a mic with it. I was planning on getting a pair of headphones with the boompro and I'm wondering if I should sell the amp and put it towards the headphone and boompro or keep the amp and use it with a pair of headphones and boompro?


----------



## Stillhart

chubupanda said:


> Does anyone know if I can use a V-moda boompro/headphone setup with my Sound Blaster E5's to talk to people on the PS4? I don't know how any of this **** works. One of my friend s just gave me this amp saying he didn't need it anymore, but I have no Idea how any of this stuff works or if I can even use a mic with it. I was planning on getting a pair of headphones with the boompro and I'm wondering if I should sell the amp and put it towards the headphone and boompro or keep the amp and use it with a pair of headphones and boompro?


 
  
 It should work fine as an amp (on battery power, plugged in-line with your headphones thru the controller).  I don't believe it has a mic in port, so using it as a USB DAC/Amp will force you to use the built-in mic, which is likely far worse than the Boompro.  Either way, I'm pretty sure you can't use it to process surround from the PS4.


----------



## Yethal

chubupanda said:


> thanks, yeah I will definitely consider these, also how are the V-Moda M-100's just curious because I don't hear many people talk about them and I Noticed they were closed headphones as well. Do they stack up against the beyerdynamics at all? Also How would I go about using a mix amp to get surround sound on the ps4 with any of these headphones? and which mix amp should I even get? there is so much to audio it hurts my brain.


 
 No idea about the M100 as I haven't tried those.
  
 As for the mixamp, go with the 2011 or 2013 version. Optical and usb from ps4 to the mixamp. Audio output set to optical, audio priority set to Dolby bitstream. You just plug the headphones into the headset port on the mixamp. For headsets with two 3.5mm jacks You'll have to use an Y-adapter (ships with the mixamp so no worries here)


----------



## Stillhart

@Evshrug has the M-100, maybe he can comment.


----------



## Change is Good

Or just search "m100" in the thread to find his prior posts about it...


----------



## Chubupanda

stillhart said:


> It should work fine as an amp (on battery power, plugged in-line with your headphones thru the controller).  I don't believe it has a mic in port, so using it as a USB DAC/Amp will force you to use the built-in mic, which is likely far worse than the Boompro.  Either way, I'm pretty sure you can't use it to process surround from the PS4.


 
 Okay sorry I'm not the brightest person here so forgive me If I don't completely follow, But I think I somewhat get what you are saying. Basically what your saying is plugged in through USB it will work fine as an amp, but it wont allow me to use the boompro to talk? and also it wont process surround sound on the PS4? what if I use a optical toslink cable from the PS4 to the device even then it wont process surround sound or pick up the boompro?


----------



## Change is Good

Chub, just get a mixamp or recon 3d for the PS4. Use optical to get surround, usb to get chat...


----------



## Chubupanda

@Stillhart @Yethal @Change is Good 
  
 Yeah okay I'm over complicating my setup. I'm just going to go with the V-Moda M-100 with the Boompro along with the Sound Blaster Recon 3D. my only question will I need an amp with the recon 3D for m-100's? or will it be good on its own.


----------



## Change is Good

For the M100, an additional amp won't be necessary. Does it, however, have to be boompro compatible? There are way better closed options to choose from than the M100 for gaming. What is your budget and sound preferences, again?


----------



## Evshrug

chubupanda said:


> Does anyone know if I can use a V-moda boompro/headphone setup with my Sound Blaster E5's to talk to people on the PS4? I don't know how any of this **** works. One of my friend s just gave me this amp saying he didn't need it anymore, but I have no Idea how any of this stuff works or if I can even use a mic with it. I was planning on getting a pair of headphones with the boompro and I'm wondering if I should sell the amp and put it towards the headphone and boompro or keep the amp and use it with a pair of headphones and boompro?







chubupanda said:


> @Stillhart
> @Yethal
> @Change is Good
> 
> ...




The M-100 had several months (maybe a year) of rave reviews before some other new thing took it out of the spotlight. V-MODA designed the boompro as an M-100 accessory (and other headphones). By itself, the M-100 has a warm, bassy tilt with a V-shaped sound (more bass, less mids, little more treble) that isn't sonically fatiguing. Val Kolton did a nice job with driver matching and tuning them to have boosted bass but stay below the threshold before bass blooms together and blurs into bad one-note wooomp – what I'm saying here is the M-100 is a nice fun headphone that didn't go too far and kept a nice balance of quality and quantity. It's super tough and durable, and the custom engraved shields, case, extra cables, all that are nice touches that'll spoil you. Also, it's easy to drive straight from a phone... And thus usually sounds good with "basic" amps.

The downside was, for me at least, the pads didn't have a wide enough opening for my big ears and I never got used to their wearing comfort... I think it says something that I've kept them for 2 years despite that (maybe that I'm a hoarder? I do listen to them on the go sometimes). I just generally don't get along well with closed headphone comfort, personal thing. I've read great things about the optional XL pads increasing comfort, but also a lot of people that like the comfort with stock pads.

The Creative E5 can only process "positional" surround from PC sources... I mean, technically it could with the PS4 if you could install the drivers, but no. You can plug the E5 into the PS4 with USB and get stereo audio and microphone input. The E5 has one TRRS plug (like what's on the tip of the Boompro) to recoignize mic input and audio output, and it also has a built-in mic which is "okay" as any mic you set on a desk away from your mouth. On PC, it has a more-than-decent DAC and amp for a portable.

Basically, the E5 is like an upgraded FiiO E17 (the original one with optical inputs), except it also adds Bluetooth support, SBX positional surround with PC sources (where you can install drivers, Windows or Mac), two headphone outputs, mic passthrough, and a built-in mic. I have a lower-level device from Creative, but I would like having an E5 myself (I suspect it has a bit more finesse than the FiiO E17, but I haven't heard them).

The Recon3D was easily my most favourite sound accessory last-gen, read the review in my signature. The most straightforward set up too.


----------



## Chubupanda

Quote:


change is good said:


> For the M100, an additional amp won't be necessary. Does it, however, have to be boompro compatible? There are way better closed options to choose from than the M100 for gaming. What is your budget and sound preferences, again?


 
  
 Yeah the boompro is the only mic that I like and im going to be using these headphones in an area where I have to be quiet so unless you have any other recommendations for closed headphones that work with the boompro im all ears.


----------



## Evshrug

chubupanda said:


> Quote:
> 
> Yeah the boompro is the only mic that I like and im going to be using these headphones in an area where I have to be quiet so unless you have any other recommendations for closed headphones that work with the boompro im all ears.




Do you need a "didn't read" version of my post?


----------



## Chubupanda

evshrug said:


> Do you need a "didn't read" version of my post?


 
 hahaha no I actually just read it and was in the middle of responding to it I just forgot the functionality of multi-quote so I was doing it one at a time. but yeah off of your post it looks like I'm going to go with the recon 3d for surround sound but as far as the headphone goes do you think the M-100's are the best choice for console gaming otherwise do you know of anything better that's closed and works with the boompro? I just like to weight out all my options. but if not then it looks like I'm purchasing the M-100's I mean they seem like a great pair of cans. thanks for that great sum of information it really helped me out in making up my mind. btw I'm not going to buy the amp right away so will the M-100's or whatever else you recommend sound great plugged into the PS4 controller right out of the box?


----------



## Autechre

Hi guys, I need a recomendation about a pair of headphones. Currently I'm using a pair of Tritton AX720 (older model) which uses the dolby headphone decoder. I really love how these sound with DH that I don't know if I would like going back to stereo listening. Luckily I can use the decoder with other headphones. My budget is around 150 Euros. I've narrowed the choice down to:
  
 -Audio Technica ATH-m50x ( but I've read from Mad Lust Envy post that these don't sound good in DH)
 -Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 32 or 80 ohm (remember I want to use the Dolby headphone decode if I don't like how they sound in stereo mode)
 -Sony MDR-Ds6500 or Sennheiser RS 170 (Heard these are good for movies watching plus they are wireless which is a bonus)
 -Astro A40 (I can find the 2014 model for 150 euros)
  
 I mainly watch movies and do gaming. I rarely listen to music. Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## Change is Good

Is the PM3 compatible with the boompro? That may be another closed headphone for Chub to look into if it is.


----------



## Change is Good

autechre said:


> Hi guys, I need a recomendation about a pair of headphones. Currently I'm using a pair of Tritton AX720 (older model) which uses the dolby headphone decoder. I really love how these sound with DH that I don't know if I would like going back to stereo listening. Luckily I can use the decoder with other headphones. My budget is around 150 Euros. I've narrowed the choice down to:
> 
> -Audio Technica ATH-m50x ( but I've read from Mad Lust Envy post that these don't sound good in DH)
> -Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 32 or 80 ohm (remember I want to use the Dolby headphone decode if I don't like how they sound in stereo mode)
> ...




I'm guessing you need closed headphones? If so, no need to look further than the Soundmagic HP100 or HP150 in that price range.


----------



## Hansotek

autechre said:


> Hi guys, I need a recomendation about a pair of headphones. Currently I'm using a pair of Tritton AX720 (older model) which uses the dolby headphone decoder. I really love how these sound with DH that I don't know if I would like going back to stereo listening. Luckily I can use the decoder with other headphones. My budget is around 150 Euros. I've narrowed the choice down to:
> 
> -Audio Technica ATH-m50x ( but I've read from Mad Lust Envy post that these don't sound good in DH)
> -Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 32 or 80 ohm (remember I want to use the Dolby headphone decode if I don't like how they sound in stereo mode)
> ...




I really like the Beyer DT770 80ohm PRO of the cans you listed. They are bassier than the other DT770 models, and they are totally stellar for movies and games. 

The Beyer 32's have a totally different sound sig, and aren't very well loved from what I've seen. 

The M50x is good, but doesn't have a lot of soundstage, I've only heard it in stereo. I was impressed, but definitely wouldn't buy it for Dolby Headphone.

I haven't tried the Sony, Sennheiser or Astro models you mentioned.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Is the PM3 compatible with the boompro? That may be another closed headphone for Chub to look into if it is.


 
  
 It is compatible with the PM-3, yes.  The PM-3 isn't a great gaming can though.  It's got good imaging, but the soundstage is pretty small and the sound signature is on the warm side.  It is certainly easy to drive tho.  And it sounds fantastic with music...
  
 It's an option, for sure.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a portable.


----------



## Change is Good

Probably still a better choice than the m100 for gaming, though, I would believe...


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> Probably still a better choice than the m100 for gaming, though, I would believe...




The only serious issue I had with the m100 for gaming was comfort.. Terribly heavy, clampy headphone that make your ears hot.


----------



## Stillhart

change is good said:


> Probably still a better choice than the m100 for gaming, though, I would believe...


 
  
 Yeah, I haven't heard the M-100, nor read enough about it to hazard a guess.  
  
 Given the choice, I'd rather use an HP100/150 for gaming and figure out a different mic solution than the Boompro.  It's a very open-sounding headphone and the comfort is thru the roof with the Shure 1540 pads.  With the price difference, you can afford a Modmic or Snowball or whatever.


----------



## Change is Good

I think Chub really wants to use the boompro, though...


----------



## Chubupanda

change is good said:


> I think Chub really wants to use the boompro, though...


 


stillhart said:


> It is compatible with the PM-3, yes.  The PM-3 isn't a great gaming can though.  It's got good imaging, but the soundstage is pretty small and the sound signature is on the warm side.  It is certainly easy to drive tho.  And it sounds fantastic with music...
> 
> It's an option, for sure.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a portable.


 
  
 Yeah unfortunately I've tried a great many different types of mic setups and I just like the boompro. I mean for now its alright I think I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get one open headphone for when I don't have to be quiet (probably the Philips Fidelio X2) and one closed headphone for when I have to be quiet, probably the M-100 unless you guys can recommend one that is obviously better. But if not its okay I don't think any of these options can be worse than my 2004 Turtle Beach X41's that I have right now, unless it would be than please tell me now so I don't blow a bunch of money on what I think is a good Idea lol.


----------



## rudyae86

chubupanda said:


> Yeah unfortunately I've tried a great many different types of mic setups and I just like the boompro. I mean for now its alright I think I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to get one open headphone for when I don't have to be quiet (probably the Philips Fidelio X2) and one closed headphone for when I have to be quiet, probably the M-100 unless you guys can recommend one that is obviously better. But if not its okay I don't think any of these options can be worse than my 2004 Turtle Beach X41's that I have right now, unless it would be than please tell me now so I don't blow a bunch of money on what I think is a good Idea lol.


 

 Id recommend for a closed headphone the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Sennheiser PC350SE (headset) or the one Stillhart mentioned, HP100 or HP150 (both almost the same but different color).
  
 You can get Like new condition on the Custom One Pro for pretty cheap on Amazon, you just have to keep an eye out. The PC350SE sometimes goes for 120 dollars and seen it as low as 100 on woot. The HP100/150 has some like new for cheap too.
  
 Im actually suprised not alot of people talk about the PC350SE or the COP for gaming, they are pretty good for uner 150 dollars IMO.
  
 MLE has a review for the COP coming soon, hopefully lol. You just need to know that a closed back headphone will have a smaller soundstage compared to open backs like the X2. Im still holding out for an X2, since I am enjoying my K7XX for now


----------



## Change is Good

Philips X2 and Oppo PM3 (have yet to hear, but read great thinga about) would be a great open and closed combo, I believe, with both being boompro compatible. Stillhart may can chime in in that some more since he spent some time with the pm3.

Not trying to dissuade you from the M100, its just you keep asking so I keep suggesting other closed options. I've never been that fond of the m100, personally. Its soundstage is quite lacking for such a bassy headphone.


----------



## Chubupanda

change is good said:


> Philips X2 and Oppo PM3 (have yet to hear, but read great thinga about) would be a great open and closed combo, I believe, with both being boompro compatible. Stillhart may can chime in in that some more since he spent some time with the pm3.
> 
> Not trying to dissuade you from the M100, its just you keep asking so I keep suggesting other closed options. I've never been that fond of the m100, personally. Its soundstage is quite lacking for such a bassy headphone.


 


rudyae86 said:


> Id recommend for a closed headphone the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Sennheiser PC350SE (headset) or the one Stillhart mentioned, HP100 or HP150 (both almost the same but different color).
> 
> You can get Like new condition on the Custom One Pro for pretty cheap on Amazon, you just have to keep an eye out. The PC350SE sometimes goes for 120 dollars and seen it as low as 100 on woot. The HP100/150 has some like new for cheap too.
> 
> ...


 
 for starters I'm sold on the X2 for open, but as far as the PM-3 goes they are too steep for me right now but they do look really nice so it looks like I'm at a toss-up between the COP and the M-100. and yeah I'm aware of the small soundstage for closed headphones but its just going to be for when I need to be really quiet. But then again you have to remember I'm gaming on old 2004 Turtle beach X41's right now so I'm sure any pair of headphone I get right now will be a big upgrade.


----------



## Stillhart

chubupanda said:


> for starters I'm sold on the X2 for open, but as far as the PM-3 goes they are too steep for me right now but they do look really nice so it looks like I'm at a toss-up between the COP and the M-100. and yeah I'm aware of the small soundstage for closed headphones but its just going to be for when I need to be really quiet. But then again you have to remember I'm gaming on old 2004 Turtle beach X41's right now so I'm sure any pair of headphone I get right now will be a big upgrade.


 
  
 Unless you can grab one of those $200 M-100 that was floating around earlier this week, I'd probably go for the COP.  Given what I've heard about the M-100's soundstage and comfort, I doubt it's worth the extra money over the COP.


----------



## Evshrug

chubupanda said:


> hahaha no I actually just read it and was in the middle of responding to it I just forgot the functionality of multi-quote so I was doing it one at a time. but yeah off of your post it looks like I'm going to go with the recon 3d for surround sound but as far as the headphone goes do you think the M-100's are the best choice for console gaming otherwise do you know of anything better that's closed and works with the boompro? I just like to weight out all my options. but if not then it looks like I'm purchasing the M-100's I mean they seem like a great pair of cans. thanks for that great sum of information it really helped me out in making up my mind. btw I'm not going to buy the amp right away so will the M-100's or whatever else you recommend sound great plugged into the PS4 controller right out of the box?



Oh good, sometimes I worry I make these wall-of-text posts that are just too long.

So yeah, any headphone suffers from the Bluetooth, cheapest-DAC, and weak amp of the controller, BUT the M-100 is efficient and gets plenty loud (can turn it too loud) from the controller and it sounds better than a TV speaker. I'd much rather use the E5 in the meanwhile, if possible.

The PM-3 has average closed headphone soundstage, side-by-side I preferred the PM-3 but the M-100 is warmer and less expensive. They both don't expand out very WIDE in soundstage... but the PM-3 sucks you in with it's crazy clean detail and reveals a lot of soundstage depth away in front of you (you sound like you're on stage rather than in audience, but you can hear the "seats" area and things recorded far away as such). IMO the PM-3 is as easily "better" in a more technical way just easily as it costs more.

I personally liked using a $3 (or less) clip-on lapel mic from Amazon with my Recon3D (try finding one on eBay, new ones are only in a hella expensive bundle!). Later, I got a Blue microphones' Snowball, a great USB mic I also use while video voice dubbing, twitch casting, and just general chat during gameplay now, lol!




change is good said:


> Is the PM3 compatible with the boompro? That may be another closed headphone for Chub to look into if it is.




It has a 2.5 mm Jack, if I'm not mistaken? I just mailed along the tour PM-3 unit. 380grams weight, but it was comfy. The M-100 can be flexed out to have whatever clamp you want, I just LITERALLY get hot ears no matter what headphone I use and the M-100 had pads with just a bit smaller opening.

Just for you, I'll play a little Destiny crucible right now with my M-100.


----------



## Stillhart

evshrug said:


> *It has a 2.5 mm Jack, if I'm not mistaken? *I just mailed along the tour PM-3 unit. 380grams weight, but it was comfy. The M-100 can be flexed out to have whatever clamp you want, I just LITERALLY get hot ears no matter what headphone I use and the M-100 had pads with just a bit smaller opening.
> 
> Just for you, I'll play a little Destiny crucible right now with my M-100.


 
  
 Nope, 3.5mm.  It definitely works with the Boompro, I spent a few hours talking to you on it the last time we played Destiny.


----------



## Chubupanda

stillhart said:


> Unless you can grab one of those $200 M-100 that was floating around earlier this week, I'd probably go for the COP.  Given what I've heard about the M-100's soundstage and comfort, I doubt it's worth the extra money over the COP.


 
 actually I can crab an m-100 used "like new" on amazon for just under 200 or used in "good" condition for about 160. but then I can do the same thing on amazon with the COP and get in used in "very good" condition for about 170. now mind you I'm only listing the price from retailers on amazon with great ratings I don't buy from people that either don't have enough ratings or are rated too low.
  


evshrug said:


> Oh good, sometimes I worry I make these wall-of-text posts that are just too long.
> 
> So yeah, any headphone suffers from the Bluetooth, cheapest-DAC, and weak amp of the controller, BUT the M-100 is efficient and gets plenty loud (can turn it too loud) from the controller and it sounds better than a TV speaker. I'd much rather use the E5 in the meanwhile, if possible.
> 
> ...


 
 No when I set my mind to finding the best of something ( or at least for my price range) I will read a text post that's a mile long if I have to. but yeah the PM-3 is a little too steep for me I already figure I will buy two headsets one open for when I dont have to be quiet which I will probably get the Fidelio X2 and one that is closed for when I have to be Quiet which is a toss up between the M-100 and the Custom One pro.


----------



## Mach3

chubupanda said:


> actually I can crab an m-100 used "like new" on amazon for just under 200 or used in "good" condition for about 160. but then I can do the same thing on amazon with the COP and get in used in "very good" condition for about 170. now mind you I'm only listing the price from retailers on amazon with great ratings I don't buy from people that either don't have enough ratings or are rated too low.
> 
> No when I set my mind to finding the best of something ( or at least for my price range) I will read a text post that's a mile long if I have to. but yeah the PM-3 is a little too steep for me I already figure I will buy two headsets one open for when I dont have to be quiet which I will probably get the Fidelio X2 and one that is closed for when I have to be Quiet which is a toss up between the M-100 and the Custom One pro.


 
 I've own both and I have to admit I've sold the COP as the positioning isn't as great as the M-100. Not to mention the COP has a very narrow soundstage which I wasn't a fan of either. The M-100 are more comfy and I've had long COD session with no issue. Stock cable mic (orange cable) that comes with the M-100 works great. Didn't feel the need to grab the intrusive V-moda mic for the M-100.
  
 I have sold the COP recently and kept the M-100 for gaming. However, been gaming more on my recent acquired LA7000. Planning on moving to the K702 annie or possibly K812 after hearing how good they where at a meet 2 day ago.


----------



## Evshrug

Aaaaaand I can't wear them any longer. Lol. Ears physically hurt. Shame cuz footsteps are easy to hear, fun to listen to, there's a bit of congestion but you hear everything through it anyway, nowhere near as dark as Creative's own headphones. A good fun headphone.


----------



## Chubupanda

mach3 said:


> I've own both and I have to admit I've sold the COP as the positioning isn't as great as the M-100. Not to mention the COP has a very narrow soundstage which I wasn't a fan of either. The M-100 are more comfy and I've had long COD session with no issue. Stock cable mic (orange cable) that comes with the M-100 works great. Didn't feel the need to grab the intrusive V-moda mic for the M-100.
> 
> I have sold the COP recently and kept the M-100 for gaming. However, been gaming more on my recent acquired LA7000. Planning on moving to the K702 annie or possibly K812 after hearing how good they where at a meet 2 day ago.


 


evshrug said:


> Aaaaaand I can't wear them any longer. Lol. Ears physically hurt. Shame cuz footsteps are easy to hear, fun to listen to, there's a bit of congestion but you hear everything through it anyway, nowhere near as dark as Creative's own headphones. A good fun headphone.


 
 Alright I think I've made up my mind. As an open pair I'll get the X2's and for Closed I'm going with M-100's. also I doubt the complaints about it being too tight on the head will be a problem with me I've always preferred a tight fit that others would say it hurts them after a while. I'm not sure what my head is made of (possibly cement) but my head has never hurt after wearing headphones that are too tight unlike some of my friends who would usually get a headache after wearing a tight pair of headphones after a while.


----------



## Mach3

evshrug said:


> Aaaaaand I can't wear them any longer. Lol. Ears physically hurt. Shame cuz footsteps are easy to hear, fun to listen to, there's a bit of congestion but you hear everything through it anyway, nowhere near as dark as Creative's own headphones. A good fun headphone.


 
 You need the XL pads I had the same issue.
  
  


chubupanda said:


> Alright I think I've made up my mind. As an open pair I'll get the X2's and for Closed I'm going with M-100's. also I doubt the complaints about it being too tight on the head will be a problem with me I've always preferred a tight fit that others would say it hurts them after a while. I'm not sure what my head is made of (possibly cement) but my head has never hurt after wearing headphones that are too tight unlike some of my friends who would usually get a headache after wearing a tight pair of headphones after a while.


 
  
 They aren't that tight in my experience. To me, yeah the M-100 cost more than COP but it justifiable, you get mic with stock cable, built like a tank, portable case vs adjustable bass.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I liked the M-100 mobile. Punchy, lively (not fatigueing to me), youthful sound. Trains, busses, generally outside. Didn't mind the relatively early bass rise as it counteracts against the ambience levels trains etc. produce. At home it's another story. I wouldn't buy them for non-mobile purposes. Oh, and I'd pick them over the COP anytime again.


----------



## Chubupanda

mach3 said:


> You need the XL pads I had the same issue.
> 
> 
> 
> They aren't that tight in my experience. To me, yeah the M-100 cost more than COP but it justifiable, you get mic with stock cable, built like a tank, portable case vs adjustable bass.


 


fegefeuer said:


> I liked the M-100 mobile. Punchy, lively (not fatigueing to me), youthful sound. Trains, busses, generally outside. Didn't mind the relatively early bass rise as it counteracts against the ambience levels trains etc. produce. At home it's another story. I wouldn't buy them for non-mobile purposes. Oh, and I'd pick them over the COP anytime again.


 
 I gotta be honest, this community is much more responsive than almost any other community I've been on to ask problems such as these. you guys are amazing. its like beating a dead horse with a stick trying to get people to answer my questions on other sites. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 thanks to anyone who helped me with this the past few days. cheers


----------



## Mach3

chubupanda said:


> I gotta be honest, this community is much more responsive than almost any other community I've been on to ask problems such as these. you guys are amazing. its like beating a dead horse with a stick trying to get people to answer my questions on other sites.   thanks to anyone who helped me with this the past few days. cheers




Gotta thank madlustenvy for this active thread. The main reason I got my Astro Mixamp Pro for my gaming. 
Before this thread it was hard to find gaming related post on head fi and when you do, you'll die of old age waiting for a reply and answer.
It actually more active than most flagship headphone thread I've subscribed.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's THE reference thread for headphone gaming - in the WHOLE web. I see MLE dropped in various german forums during headphone advice for gaming, though some do not get the full name right. I mean, who's Magical Lord Edgar?


----------



## Autechre

change is good said:


> I'm guessing you need closed headphones? If so, no need to look further than the Soundmagic HP100 or HP150 in that price range.


 
  
 They are a bit over my budget coming in at 200 euros locally (I'm based in Italy). But I see they are 32 ohm impedance so they are great to use with a mixamp I see. I'll keep an eye on them.


hansotek said:


> I really like the Beyer DT770 80ohm PRO of the cans you listed. They are bassier than the other DT770 models, and they are totally stellar for movies and games.
> 
> The Beyer 32's have a totally different sound sig, and aren't very well loved from what I've seen.
> 
> ...


 
  
 A point for the Beyerdynamic DT770 80ohm then. But I don't know if the Tritton decoder can drive them (it's similiar to a mixamp). The DT770's are more than twice the impedance of my AX720.


mach3 said:


> Gotta thank madlustenvy for this active thread. The main reason I got my Astro Mixamp Pro for my gaming.
> Before this thread it was hard to find gaming related post on head fi and when you do, you'll die of old age waiting for a reply and answer.
> It actually more active than most flagship headphone thread I've subscribed.


 

 What headphones are you using with your mixamp if I may ask?


----------



## missalaire

Any chance you'll be reviewing and adding the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1 and/or ATH-AG1s to the guide?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Just for you, I'll play a little _*Destiny crucible*_ right now with my M-100.


 
  
 I don't think I would have been able to watch such an atrocity without going on suicide watch...


----------



## Evshrug

chubupanda said:


> I gotta be honest, this community is much more responsive than almost any other community I've been on to ask problems such as these. you guys are amazing. its like beating a dead horse with a stick trying to get people to answer my questions on other sites.   thanks to anyone who helped me with this the past few days. cheers



Woot! Part of it comes from Mad's crazy quest to try new things (who doesn't like new things??) which, thankfully, has recently become a bit easier for him. So, fresh reviews pop up now and again  I'd say the other part of it is our stick-around and communicative spirit often encourages new people to become regulars and help out with replies or their own experiences. I bet I could write a review and Mad could filter it through his understanding of my tastes, and I wrote my M-100 notes for you during my work lunch-break because Stillhart sent me a call-to-arms (he found the thread about a year ago, and after a few weeks also became a regular  ). He also commented "The old Evs is back" which fed my ego a bit, bwah hahaha.

Full circle, leave an impression post about the M-100 when you get them ^_^ Keeps the thread juicy 





missalaire said:


> Any chance you'll be reviewing and adding the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1 and/or ATH-AG1s to the guide?



Well, Mad is buying these things, believe it or not... So probably not unless someone offered to send one to him. For example, he reviewed my AKG K712. 

However, he probably would be less than interested. The ATH-ADG1 is = AD700x + Mic, and the AD700x = the legendary AD700. Or at least super-close, like the same performance but you'd have to hear both side-by-side to hear very slight differences in character. Mad's AD700 review is on the guide, and I also had an AD700 for three years... Very lightweight and comfortable, emphasizing soundstage and air, an ace for imaging and headphone surround processing, though the bass rolls off quickly. I thought it benefitted greatly from the rubber-band wing "mod" and a little headband bending, and also a harmonic bass boost such as you get from a Creative sound processor or a Turtle Beach DSS. In the end, when I compared it to the Q701, I decided that the AD700 was good for having a specialized sound, but it felt like an incomplete experience next to the Q701 and I enjoyed getting more into the music on the ($200) Q701. I've never tried the AD900.

The ATH-AG1 = A700, the closed sibling (more the sibling of the AD500 IMO). I had one for a week, from distant memory it had a little more sub bass but less of the magic that made the AD700 special. I'd have to hear the AG1 to give you anything more conclusive.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I don't think I would have been able to watch such an atrocity without going on suicide watch...



Lol! Well I actually led the scoreboard most of the time, and physically the M-100 look good... but I made a mistake cutting my own hair, so probably better you didn't see XD


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Lol! Well I actually led the scoreboard most of the time, and physically the M-100 look good... but I made a mistake cutting my own hair, so probably better you didn't see XD




I don't have hair on my head


----------



## Chubupanda

evshrug said:


> Woot! Part of it comes from Mad's crazy quest to try new things (who doesn't like new things??) which, thankfully, has recently become a bit easier for him. So, fresh reviews pop up now and again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah I remember when I was part of a community of great people unfortunately being a college student with a job and a demanding career path doesn't really let you do that for very long before you just get disconnected. But It's alright I guess, as long as I can still play some video games at the end of the day on a nice monitor with some nice audio my life is alright, but I wont deny having people coming to you asking you questions and being able to give them the answers feels pretty good. maybe once I get my career going I'll be able to do that again, but for now thank you for all your help I will definitely come back to this thread often just to see whats new. I will definitely come back to the thread once I've spent enough time with the M-100' to tell you guys what I thought about them. I never really thought of myself as an audiophile because I always put it second to graphics when given the choice, but the more I progress through the generations of gaming the more I realize nice audio makes the game just as much as the graphics.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> *Well, Mad is buying these things, believe it or not... So probably not unless someone offered to send one to him. For example, he reviewed my AKG K712.*


 
 Is he a Rothschild in secret? How was he able to afford bazillion different headphones?


----------



## Madkap

Hello everyone, what's the opinion on the Creative Sound Blaster X7? I read the reviews but I would like to know other people's opinions on it. The reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on buying the Philips X2 along with a Astro Mixamp/Recon3D for console but, I want to get something for my laptop as well. I don't know if the Creative X7 is the best choice for me or is there something more ideal? I know the Creative X7 works with the PS4 and is somewhat future proof so I'm sure it'll meet my needs for a while. Ideally the less stuff there is, hardware/cables, the better and money isn't an issue. Please feel free to suggest or ask questions, thank you.


----------



## Yethal

madkap said:


> Hello everyone, what's the opinion on the Creative Sound Blaster X7? I read the reviews but I would like to know other people's opinions on it. The reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on buying the Philips X2 along with a Astro Mixamp/Recon3D for console but, I want to get something for my laptop as well. I don't know if the Creative X7 is the best choice for me or is there something more ideal? I know the Creative X7 works with the PS4 and is somewhat future proof so I'm sure it'll meet my needs for a while. Ideally the less stuff there is, hardware/cables, the better and money isn't an issue. Please feel free to suggest or ask questions, thank you.


 
 X7 doesn't support console voice chat natively (will support once Sony adds bluetooth headset support). As of now there are several workarounds for that, none of them easy.
  

Buy a USB mic with the X7. That's what @Evshrug is using. It's an additional cost but pretty clean, and offers a relatively easy setup
Buy a cheap USB soundcard, 3.5mm to RCA cable and a 3.5mm microphone. Plug the soundcard into the PS4 plug the cable from the headphone output on the soundcad to the RCA line in on the X7, then plug the microphone into the mic plug on the soundcard. Relatively easy to implement, that's what most people do with the X7.
Use PS camera as a mic. Easiest one to implement, go for it if You're lazy
Use Soundblaster Recon 3D extension cable together with PS4 chat cable (3.5mm to 2.5mm cable). This one is relatively clean. Might be troublesome to implement due to the fact that currently Creative does not sell these standalone, they might do in the future though. That's what I'm personally using and it is really convenient.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Is he a Rothschild in secret? How was he able to afford bazillion different headphones?



By usually only having one at a time, and spending years building up the guide over time. So he'll buy one and love it for a month or two, but then the quest for the holy grail "for right now" calls to him, and he'll sell the old and buy something that (may or may not) fit his budget and sonic goals. He's not trying to be the "Pokémon Master" of headphones and collect them all, he specifically prioritizes a comfortable, open, warm/fun headphone which also does a great job of surround imaging. Mostly for gaming, a little music and Netflix too. And bigger purchases take some consideration, because life/roommates/job sites change and so the budget is in flux (and precious). Things are better now (yay!), but he doesn't make his living on Head-Fi.





madkap said:


> Hello everyone, what's the opinion on the Creative Sound Blaster X7? I read the reviews but I would like to know other people's opinions on it. The reason I'm asking is because I'm planning on buying the Philips X2 along with a Astro Mixamp/Recon3D for console but, I want to get something for my laptop as well.



Well, you don't want my opinion then because I wrote the first X7 review! And a pretty detailed Recon3D USB review. By the way, the Recon3D can work with laptops too, by USB...


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> By usually only having one at a time, and spending years building up the guide over time. So he'll buy one and love it for a month or two, but then the quest for the holy grail "for right now" calls to him, and he'll sell the old and buy something that (may or may not) fit his budget and sonic goals. He's not trying to be the "Pokémon Master" of headphones and collect them all, he specifically prioritizes a comfortable, open, warm/fun headphone which also does a great job of surround imaging. Mostly for gaming, a little music and Netflix too. And bigger purchases take some consideration, because life/roommates/job sites change and so the budget is in flux (and precious). Things are better now (yay!), but he doesn't make his living on Head-Fi.


 
 I wouldn't mind MLE working full time on Head-fi if it meant more frequent updates and broader spectrum of reviews.
  
 Side note: I got into Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head gaming beta tests. Will post some impressions as soon as I get the chance.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> By usually only having one at a time, and spending years building up the guide over time. So he'll buy one and love it for a month or two, but then the quest for the holy grail "for right now" calls to him, and he'll sell the old and buy something that (may or may not) fit his budget and sonic goals. He's not trying to be the "Pokémon Master" of headphones and collect them all, he specifically prioritizes a comfortable, open, warm/fun headphone which also does a great job of surround imaging. Mostly for gaming, a little music and Netflix too. And bigger purchases take some consideration, because life/roommates/job sites change and so the budget is in flux (and precious). Things are better now (yay!), but he doesn't make his living on Head-Fi.







yethal said:


> I wouldn't mind MLE working full time on Head-fi if it meant more frequent updates and broader spectrum of reviews.
> 
> Side note: I got into Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head gaming beta tests. Will post some impressions as soon as I get the chance.




We also need to factor in the countless hours he spent on just listening and writing. I admire such enthusiasm and consistency, and totally understand the moments when homie gets burned out from the hobby. Glad to see him doing reviews for headphone.guru, nowadays. I just wish they would send him headphones that we (the consumers) would actually be interested in purchasing, not just reading about.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> I wouldn't mind MLE working full time on Head-fi if it meant more frequent updates and broader spectrum of reviews.


 
  
 Hey, MLE, Yethal is offering to pay you a full yearly salary to review headphones!


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Hey, MLE, Yethal is offering to pay you a full yearly salary to review headphones!


 
 Can vodka be used as a currency?


----------



## Stillhart

fegefeuer said:


> His real name is Shimon Menachim Goldwasser for a good reason


 
  
 You you like to expand on this statement and convince me it's not as offensive as I think it is?


----------



## hi2chris

yethal said:


> X7 doesn't support console voice chat natively (will support once Sony adds bluetooth headset support). As of now there are several workarounds for that, none of them easy.
> 
> 
> Buy a USB mic with the X7. That's what @Evshrug is using. It's an additional cost but pretty clean, and offers a relatively easy setup
> ...


 
 There is one more method which i use, which i think works best at least for myself.
  
 Headphone connected to X7
  
 ModMic connected to Splitter which is then connected to PS4 Remote.
  
 Then in setting under devices change output for audio from PS4 Controller back to Receiver (At work so not sure of exact wording)
  
 This setup works well with only one cable going to the X7 and the other only to the controller and is easily removable when the Mic is not needed.
  
 The downfall is every time you connect the mic you have to change the output settings as the PS4 forces Chat audio out of the controller be default.


----------



## Yethal

hi2chris said:


> There is one more method which i use, which i think works best at least for myself.
> 
> Headphone connected to X7
> 
> ...


 
 It can be changed now? Afair it's not possible to separate mic and chat audio channels.


----------



## Mach3

autechre said:


> mach3 said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta thank madlustenvy for this active thread. The main reason I got my Astro Mixamp Pro for my gaming.
> ...


 
  
 I'm currently using the M-100 with the Astro Mixamp Pro for convenience at the moment to play Black Ops II Zombie and Dota2.
 Previously I was using the COP, I've tried it with mic cord but fold it was too much of a distraction.
 So I upgraded to the M-100 after reading some review and also saw Anakchan threw his in the river only to dry it out and bring it back to life (Amazing).
 The the corded mic that come stock, I find works well and have had no one I play online complained that they can't hear me.
 I have also owned the X1 and highly recommend it. But I travel a lot which is why I prefer the M-100 as it has better build quality and comes with a handy travel case.
 Sound wise the X1 is a leap forward from the M-100, I recently had the chance to hear the K702 Anniversary.
 I think these would be the next upgrade for my gaming set when I'm at home, the positioning ability of the K702 is fantastic.


----------



## Madkap

yethal said:


> X7 doesn't support console voice chat natively (will support once Sony adds bluetooth headset support). As of now there are several workarounds for that, none of them easy.
> 
> 
> Buy a USB mic with the X7. That's what @Evshrug is using. It's an additional cost but pretty clean, and offers a relatively easy setup
> ...


 
  
 I noticed when reading the reviews but I think it's worth it in the long run. I'll probably try hi2chris's method and I think the same method was mentioned in Evshrug's review.
  


evshrug said:


> Well, you don't want my opinion then because I wrote the first X7 review! And a pretty detailed Recon3D USB review. By the way, the Recon3D can work with laptops too, by USB...


 
  
 Your detailed review is the only reason way I'm considering getting the X7. Is it a huge leap forward from the Recon3D?


----------



## hi2chris

yethal said:


> It can be changed now? Afair it's not possible to separate mic and chat audio channels.


 
 Well i can hear party chat through my headphones and still use the mic connected to the PS4 controller.
  
 you can choose if chat audio goes through the PS4 Controller or out to the X7 with the rest of the audio.


----------



## inseconds99

X7 is completely dead guys, was working and randomly lost sound and cannot get it back. Refer to the X7 post for more information. http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/480#post_11560360


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> X7 is completely dead guys, was working and randomly lost sound and cannot get it back. Refer to the X7 post for more information. http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/480#post_11560360


 
 It's stil under warranty. Get a new one or a refund.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> It's stil under warranty. Get a new one or a refund.


 
 I dunno if you read the link I posted. But if you could I'd appreciate it as I am getting stumped.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> I dunno if you read the link I posted. But if you could I'd appreciate it as I am getting stumped.


 
 I did read it. The symptoms You described are that of USB power management issues. While it is an issue with usb-powered dacs it shouldn't be with the X7 as it uses an external power supply. Try using a split USB cable that has an additional connector for supplying power (such as the cables usually used with external harddrives)


----------



## Evshrug

madkap said:


> Your detailed review is the only reason way I'm considering getting the X7. Is it a huge leap forward from the Recon3D?




Recon3D is not bad, and I really like how well it works with PS4 chat, but the X7 reproduces it's sounds in a noticably more distinct way so it's easier to pick up on little sounds and separate what all is happening (DAC upgrade), has more power to drive the majority of headphones well (amp upgrade), same surround (same SBX software, but the hardware upgrades do allow the surround effect to be more distinct). Plus you get a bunch of other features like bluetooth, smart device app, speaker taps, etcetera, so yeah the Recon3D is no slouch but the X7 is better in many ways.


----------



## Change is Good

Also 4x the price. For a console, recon3d would be the better choice.


----------



## Fegefeuer

As "a one device for all" solution the X7 is pretty good for the price, even when it's AC3 only for consoles (still a shame). For console only use it's quite a luxury but also a necessity once your headphone inventory reaches good mid-fi. The jump from something like a Mixamp is enormous. 
  
 Wait for deals/offers.


----------



## Change is Good

While all that may hold true, I can do without the extra benefits of the X7 on console. I have a simple and clean setup with my 5.8, and I also chat way too much to really be able to critique the upgraded sound. So, for me, nah...


----------



## AxelCloris

Win a BoomPro, folks.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/764777/win-boompro-to-transform-you-ordinary-headphone-into-a-pro-gaming-skype-machine#post_11560179


----------



## Change is Good

Wish it was win a XS lol


----------



## gab840

MLE when is your review of Fostex TH-900 is coming for Gaming????
 We are eagerly waiting ...


----------



## big-country

Great guide I've referred back to it many times, Kudos to you man! Is there by chance a set of IEMs that you can suggest that would be an upper tier on par with some of the better cans? I currently use the AKG K702 annies, but recently have been having some neck pains and during long gaming sessions the weight does tend to get to me.


----------



## Change is Good

big-country said:


> Great guide I've referred back to it many times, Kudos to you man! Is there by chance a set of IEMs that you can suggest that would be an upper tier on par with some of the better cans? I currently use the AKG K702 annies, but recently have been having some neck pains and during long gaming sessions the weight does tend to get to me.




???

The AkGs are already some of the lightest headphones out there. You sure it's your headphones giving you neck pain? How's your posture during long gaming sessions? I ask because mine isn't the greatest and it happens to me, as well...


----------



## Sam21

Is there a wireless surround sound headset/headphone that is compatible with PS4 Xbone and PC ?


----------



## big-country

Yeah but any IEM is going to be lighter than them. It I'm sure is a combo of things, not posture, being ex military, workout fanatic, past car accident.I'm sure a good adjustment would help, but there are also times that I just don't want to have a headset on either to allow myself to watch a movie or stream while gaming.


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> Is there a wireless surround sound headset/headphone that is compatible with PS4 Xbone and PC ?


 
 Newer Turtle Beach headsets should do the trick.


----------



## Sam21

yethal said:


> Newer Turtle Beach headsets should do the trick.


 
 I checked their website but no headset on their website supports both Xbone and PS4. It supports either the Xbone or the PS4.


----------



## Change is Good

big-country said:


> Yeah but any IEM is going to be lighter than them. It I'm sure is a combo of things, not posture, being ex military, workout fanatic, past car accident.I'm sure a good adjustment would help, but there are also times that I just don't want to have a headset on either to allow myself to watch a movie or stream while gaming.




Very true, don't know why I didn't even think of IEMs. Since the main focus around here has been full sized headphones, mostly, it completely slipped my mind. If that is what you are in serach for, I do remember the Westone 4r having a similar sound signature as that of the Annie/K712. That's me assuming, however, that you are absolutely in love with the Annie sound just as I am 

I personally use the XBA-H3, but it leans more into the consumer u-shaped sound. Kind of like the X1 and 1540. Bassy, but not basshead levels. Very good soundstage for an iem, also.

PS: Thank you for your service!


----------



## inseconds99

Now that I got my X7 working again, I am looking to connect my Xbox One and PS4 to it but there is only one optical port. Can anyone recommend me a Optical Switch/Selector so I can connect both my PS4 and XOne at the same time?


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> I checked their website but no headset on their website supports both Xbone and PS4. It supports either the Xbone or the PS4.


 
 Lol, they do. Buy an Xbox compatible one and then buy PS4 chat cable (2.5mm to 3.5mm). Then switch the cable between the xbox controller and the PS4 one


----------



## Sam21

but with a chat cable you are only inputting 2 channels....Can it create surround with only two channels ?


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> but with a chat cable you are only inputting 2 channels....Can it create surround with only two channels ?


 
 Chat cable is for chat only. Optical input is used for game audio. If You need to connect two consoles to the headset at the same time, buy an optical switch


----------



## Sam21

ah, so game audio works on both, for chat I should swap cables....how about PC ?


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> ah, so game audio works on both, for chat I should swap cables....how about PC ?


 
 Now it gets kinda tricky. Since console surround headsets rely on the Dolby Digital signal You'd have to output this kind of signal from Your PC (most Realtek onboard audio cards have this capability). Alternatively buy this headset: 
 It uses well-regarded Soundblaster Recon 3D USB soundcard that is both PC and console compatible but adds wireless capability to it.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, the Recon3D/Omega bundle is pretty much the closest to a do-all wireless... however for XBone you might have to wire in the headset to the controller for chat. I don't have an Omega myself (tho my dad recently bought a restaurant called the Omega Café!), and the Omega was designed before the current-gen consoles, so... Basically XBone is easy to get surround but a pain in the petutti to get chat in the mix! The PS4 will send chat audio to the Recon3D through USB and the game audio through optical, so that's easy.

The other caveat of the Recon3D/Omega bundle is the cost. The bundle is pretty much the only way to get a new Recon3D (used ones show up on eBay tho!), and you might find other setup options at that cost. That said, wireless for PC and console, the Recon3D/Omega bundle is probably the most flexible.


----------



## CapitaFK

sam21 said:


> Is there a wireless surround sound headset/headphone that is compatible with PS4 Xbone and PC ?


 
  
 The PLYR1 should do the trick. Sounded pretty good when I tried it; similar to an M50, but with less bass.


----------



## Evshrug

capitafk said:


> The PLYR1 should do the trick. Sounded pretty good when I tried it; similar to an M50, but with less bass.




Game sound will be easy, chat may require a cable for both consoles. I had a friend start his Head-Fi experience with the PLYR1, he was OK with it until he heard a Philips X1 and found that the PLYR1 was comparatively muddy and fatiguing. And then AKG Q701 with the Bass mod just edged out the other two for clean sound and the sense of a soundstage.

Sam may/may not end up prioritizing wireless over the clear audio quality advantages, though hearing a basic, well set up wired system of headphones will put a lot of points in favor of the musical experience over the experience in sound with a wireless setup, and make it harder to continue preferring wireless.


----------



## syphe

I see people keep recommending the Recon3d sound card.
 I've already got a DSS2, which seems to do the trick, but it's a bit of a mess of cables and dongles to get a mic working with it. I've since found a single Recon3d in stock somewhat locally and was wondering if that would be a worthwhile upgrade?
 I've got Samson SR850's as my headset, which are 32ohm, so don't think either would make much a difference in driving them, but obviously the DSS2 doesn't have Dolby Headphone.


----------



## CapitaFK

evshrug said:


> Game sound will be easy, chat may require a cable for both consoles. I had a friend start his Head-Fi experience with the PLYR1, he was OK with it until he heard a Philips X1 and found that the PLYR1 was comparatively muddy and fatiguing. And then AKG Q701 with the Bass mod just edged out the other two for clean sound and the sense of a soundstage.
> 
> Sam may/may not end up prioritizing wireless over the clear audio quality advantages, though hearing a basic, well set up wired system of headphones will put a lot of points in favor of the musical experience over the experience in sound with a wireless setup, and make it harder to continue preferring wireless.


 
  
 He seems to already have an A700X and a K702, so I don't think he'll be needing these for music. That said, I can't really think of a wireless gaming headset that works for all consoles and PC better than the PLYR1. It's got good positioning, and its smallish soundstage doesn't really interfere with the accuracy through DH.


----------



## Mach3

big-country said:


> Great guide I've referred back to it many times, Kudos to you man! Is there by chance a set of IEMs that you can suggest that would be an upper tier on par with some of the better cans? I currently use the AKG K702 annies, but recently have been having some neck pains and during long gaming sessions the weight does tend to get to me.


 
 You need to hit the gym bro, if a set of headphone can do that much damage/pain. Strugs for the win!


----------



## big-country

mach3 said:


> You need to hit the gym bro, if a set of headphone can do that much damage/pain. Strugs for the win!


 
 Lol...Shrugs would be the exercise you're trying to reference. My trap game is on point and fairly certain if my working weight on shrugs is over 315 on barbell shrugs and rep with the 100 lb dbells that my shrug game is on point. Thanks for the tip though "bruh" I'll bear that in mind


----------



## akatsuki

The more I read this thread, the less decisive I am getting.
  
 Was about settled on MixAmp Pro + PC360 combo for my PS4 (as I posted in another thread)... But maybe X2s with modmic? Maybe something else!?
  
 Arrgh


----------



## PacoTaco

akatsuki said:


> The more I read this thread, the less decisive I am getting.
> 
> Was about settled on MixAmp Pro + PC360 combo for my PS4 (as I posted in another thread)... But maybe X2s with modmic? Maybe something else!?
> 
> Arrgh


 
 X2 + V-moda boom mic + MixAmp Pro will do you well enough.
  
 From there, the only "big" upgrade would be a Soundblaster X7 and a planar/Beyerdynamic T1


----------



## AxelCloris

akatsuki said:


> The more I read this thread, the less decisive I am getting.
> 
> Was about settled on MixAmp Pro + PC360 combo for my PS4 (as I posted in another thread)... But maybe X2s with modmic? Maybe something else!?
> 
> Arrgh


 
  
 Go big or go home. HD800, Shure SM7B, mic stand, Focusrite Scarlet 2i2, Mixamp, ModMic.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Go big or go home. HD800, Shure SM7B, mic stand, Focusrite Scarlet 2i2, Mixamp, ModMic.


 
 You forgot the Smyth Realizer with DaVinci Dac and Sennheiser Orpheus.


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> You forgot the Smyth Realizer with DaVinci Dac and Sennheiser Orpheus.


 

 The realizer sounds good with the headphone amp and stax headphones it comes with Yethal, save up and stop buying gear that doesn't sound much different to each other is the answer!


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> The realizer sounds good with the headphone amp and stax headphones it comes with Yethal, save up and stop buying gear that doesn't sound much different to each other is the answer!


 
 I'd rather save up another 500 000$ and buy the best dac+amp combo possible so every micronuance in the voice of 12 year old, who appearently is acquainted with my mother, is audible.


----------



## Sam21

what is the optical out on the PLYR1's transmitter ? does it output surround sound ?


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> what is the optical out on the PLYR1's transmitter ? does it output surround sound ?


 
  
 It's a digital passthrough so you can also send signal to a home theater receiver.


----------



## Sam21

you mean like, it outputs whatever I input through optical in ? 
  
 Also, have you guys heard about the Mad Catz F.R.E.Q.9 ? it uses a totally different surround technology that can create surround sound out of only 2 -channels(stereo) called the AM3D. might buy it, although I expect the SQ to be garbage. but it is feature rich, it has ANC and aptX .


----------



## martin vegas

yethal said:


> I'd rather save up another 500 000$ and buy the best dac+amp combo possible so every micronuance in the voice of 12 year old, who appearently is acquainted with my mother, is audible.


 

 You won't get the best possible sound with a dac and headphone amp..you need the best speakers and cables with the best super audio player and monoblocks for that Yethal!


----------



## akatsuki

For 500k. I'll get Michael Winslow to come to my house and make all the sound effects I need.


----------



## Sam21

lawl


----------



## Torian

hey quick question, how do i set-up surround on my headphones properly (windows,software,ingame, bit, khz, etc.)? using SBXstudio, thx


----------



## Change is Good

If anyone is in the market for a wonderful closed headphone under $200, the HP150 is on massdrop this week for $149 (if enough people commit). Judging from my experience with the Hp100, this is a great price. Might snatch one, myself...


----------



## Yethal

torian said:


> hey quick question, how do i set-up surround on my headphones properly (windows,software,ingame, bit, khz, etc.)? using SBXstudio, thx


 
 5.1/7.1 sound in the Windows audio panel, 5.1/7.1/home cinema in-game, sbx surround 100% and headphone output.


----------



## bigdan89

so as someone who wants an all around headphone for diffrent types of gaming but mostly for listening to music what would you guys recommend  i was looking at getting the x2 and boom mic combo ?


----------



## rudyae86

Just have to say Project Cars souns awesome!

Using my Recon3D with Beyerdynamic COPs. 

Game looks beautiful. Does feel a bit "arcadey". But the sound is what gets you. Physics wise, Assetto Corsa takes it but their sounds are good enough. RaceRoom probably has some of the best sounds as well.

I feel like any V shape headphone with a warm sounding signature will suit Racing games quite well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

bigdan89 said:


> so as someone who wants an all around headphone for diffrent types of gaming but mostly for listening to music what would you guys recommend  i was looking at getting the x2 and boom mic combo ?




That'd be my recommendation.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Just have to say Project Cars souns awesome!
> 
> Using my Recon3D with Beyerdynamic COPs.
> 
> ...




Though I prefer racing in third person on Driveclub, I sometimes change the view to cockpit just to hear the engine roar with my 1540s.


----------



## inseconds99

Well I get my HD700's today (Picked up the Sub $400 amazon warehouse deal), I will have the HD800/HD700/HD650 all here for 3 days and only one will stand the test. I need an all day comfort headphone that excels in both gaming and music. The headphone has to compliment my closed/bass heavy m50X, V-Moda M100 and Beats Studio 2013's. This is what I am looking for in order of importance; comfort, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion.
  
*Quick Poll:* Which headphone do you think will stay while the others get returned, only one can stand?
  
*1. HD800*
*2. HD700*
*3. HD650*
  
*Vote Now*
  
 Will report back on which headphone I kept and why a few days from now.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Well I get my HD700's today (Picked up the Sub $400 amazon warehouse deal), I will have the HD800/HD700/HD650 all here for 3 days and only one will stand the test. I need an all day comfort headphone that excels in both gaming and music. The headphone has to compliment my closed/bass heavy m50X, V-Moda M100 and Beats Studio 2013's. This is what I am looking for in order of importance; comfort, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion.
> 
> *Quick Poll:* Which headphone do you think will stay while the others get returned, only one can stand?
> 
> ...


 
 Sell Your wife/car/dog and keep them all


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> Sell Your wife/car/dog and keep them all


 
 My girlfriend will legit hit me in the nuts if I keep them all. I promised I'd only keep 1. LOL


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> My girlfriend will legit hit me in the nuts if I keep them all. I promised I'd only keep 1. LOL


 
 Then sell her and keep them all


----------



## PacoTaco

inseconds99 said:


> Well I get my HD700's today (Picked up the Sub $400 amazon warehouse deal), I will have the HD800/HD700/HD650 all here for 3 days and only one will stand the test. I need an all day comfort headphone that excels in both gaming and music. The headphone has to compliment my closed/bass heavy m50X, V-Moda M100 and Beats Studio 2013's. This is what I am looking for in order of importance; comfort, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion.
> 
> *Quick Poll:* Which headphone do you think will stay while the others get returned, only one can stand?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The beauty of the HD800 is the fact that it is unique. Unless you really, really (and I mean really) love treble, I'd keep the HD800.


----------



## Evshrug

He already had an HD700 before. He wanted it back.

That said, I bet the HD800 will be what he stays with.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800 paired with a VOLTAGE SWINGING TUBE ENFORCER


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Though I prefer racing in third person on Driveclub, I sometimes change the view to cockpit just to hear the engine roar with my 1540s.




I only do replay in 3rd person view. Thats when I can enjoy the sound better. For realism, cockpit view is for me. I can never play a racing game in 3rd person (except when i was a noob in GT3 lol)

I can imagine the 1540s being a good headphone for Racing games.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> I only do replay in 3rd person view. Thats when I can enjoy the sound better. For realism, cockpit view is for me. I can never play a racing game in 3rd person (except when i was a noob in GT3 lol)
> 
> *I can imagine the 1540s being a good headphone for Racing games.*




I reach for it every time I play Driveclub. Been reaching for it for a lot of games, actually, now that I finally picked up another clip on mic a short while back.


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> Well I get my HD700's today (Picked up the Sub $400 amazon warehouse deal), I will have the HD800/HD700/HD650 all here for 3 days and only one will stand the test. I need an all day comfort headphone that excels in both gaming and music. The headphone has to compliment my closed/bass heavy m50X, V-Moda M100 and Beats Studio 2013's. This is what I am looking for in order of importance; comfort, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion.
> 
> *Quick Poll:* Which headphone do you think will stay while the others get returned, only one can stand?
> 
> ...




I don't know what your personal preferences are, but the HD800 murders the other two, hands down, IMO.


----------



## Change is Good

If I had the budget, the HD800 would definitely be on my radar. Hopefully someone brings one to the Florida meet we are trying to put together.


----------



## Sam21

Auditioned the Grado PS1000, HD800 and LCD2 today, I really liked the Grado, Spectacular.


----------



## Hansotek

change is good said:


> If I had the budget, the HD800 would definitely be on my radar. Hopefully someone brings one to the Florida meet we are trying to put together.




That oughtta be a fun meet. Florida represents pretty hard on Head-Fi.


----------



## Mach3

inseconds99 said:


> Well I get my HD700's today (Picked up the Sub $400 amazon warehouse deal), I will have the HD800/HD700/HD650 all here for 3 days and only one will stand the test. I need an all day comfort headphone that excels in both gaming and music. The headphone has to compliment my closed/bass heavy m50X, V-Moda M100 and Beats Studio 2013's. This is what I am looking for in order of importance; comfort, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion.
> 
> *Quick Poll:* Which headphone do you think will stay while the others get returned, only one can stand?
> 
> ...




Bought the HD800 in early 2010, picked up the HD650 in late 2012, then the HD600 in early 2014. I finish the collection early this year when the HD700 was on special. Each headphones bring something different to the table. Even after spending a solid month with the HD700 in February to March and even though I love how the HD700 sounded. It wasn't until I switch back to the HD800 that I realised that it was on another league compared to the HD700.
If I had to rate all the headphones on sound quality and price/performance. 
In your situation I'd keep the HD800. Lucky for me my girlfriend lets me keep all my headphones.

Sound Quality Alone
HD800
HD700
HD600
HD650

Price/Performance (Base On Purchase Price I Paid)
HD600 $200 AUD
HD800 $875 AUD
HD650 $300 AUD
HD700 $599 AUD


----------



## Madkap

Anyone know what would be a good case for the X2's?


----------



## big-country

I asked earlier if anyone had any suggestions of some IEMs with great detail whoring for FPS gameplay, the Westone 4 were suggested. Is there anything else out there or is that going to be my best bet?


----------



## inseconds99

For the first 5 minutes of listening to the HD700's I couldn't stand them and I wasn't sure why. I've owned them before and I did like them. I was afraid that I had been spoiled from having the HD800's and 650's, it turns out the previous owner had the Right Wire plugged into the left ear cup and the Left wire plugged into the right ear cup. I was listening to Hotel California and I was like, the instruments don't sound like they are coming out of the right places... Sure enough, the person prior to me had them plugged in wrong LOL.
  
 At this point, the HD650 is wonderfully musical, they do a great job making all kinds of music sound great but their comfort is horrible, their sound stage is mediocre and they don't have the greatest positional accuracy. At this point the 650's are falling far behind in the other 2 headphones, BUT their price per performance in incredible. I paid $196 for the HD650's after tax and shipping. That is an insane deal that probably wont be had again. I paid $388 after tax and shipping for the HD700's, also a great deal. 
  
 I am thankful I have a few more days to figure this out, right now though *here is my breakdown:*
  
*HD800 *- Best overall sound, the headphones are a little big and loose on my head and and sometimes too revealing, making poorly recorded music sound worse. Also they are over $700 more then the HD700. *9/10* Gaming, not as immersive as other headphones.
*HD700 -*  Comfortable, left ear just touches inside cup and causes some discomfort. Slightly bassier sound, treble peak is a little annoying, less revealing then the HD800's, less sound stage. $388 is amazing for the sound! *9.5/10* Gaming, slightly more bass = more immersion.
*HD650 -* Veiled sound, more intimate then the other 2, less positional accuracy but overall more musical then both the 700/800.. Hot and clampy, can't wear all day, *7/10* for gaming, immersive and fun but average accuracy especially in the rear and smaller stage. If this was for music listening only I'd rate the headphone a 9/10.. Little more sparkle in the treble and it would be the perfect sounding headphone for me personally for music, though it still have a comfort issue.
  
 Thanks for your time guys, will post my final decision tomorrow or Monday.


----------



## Change is Good

big-country said:


> I asked earlier if anyone had any suggestions of some IEMs with great detail whoring for FPS gameplay, the Westone 4 were suggested. Is there anything else out there or is that going to be my best bet?




I remember suggesting that, but may I ask your budget? Forgive me if you mentioned it, already, just can't remember what it was if you did. 

I do remember you saying you owned AKGs, hence why I suggested the W4.

This isn't the best place for IEM research, though, because it's not really our forte. Might want to try here 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/478568/multi-iem-review-337-iems-compared-nht-superbuds-added-05-05-15-p-1057

for better suggestions.


----------



## big-country

Budget isn't an overall concern. I am always listening to music or movies so end up getting value out of them. I just figured there may be some fellow gamers on here familiar with something that would better fit a FPS player as opposed to the musical end of the spectrum. I believe I have been subscribed to that thread for some time as well though! I will check out what they have to say there as well. 
  
 Also from your earlier message, no problem on my service I had fun whilst doing it. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 
  
 *Edit* on an unrelated note, has anyone been able to pair an antlion modmic with the XB1? I can not get it to work with mine.


----------



## Yethal

big-country said:


> Budget isn't an overall concern. I am always listening to music or movies so end up getting value out of them. I just figured there may be some fellow gamers on here familiar with something that would better fit a FPS player as opposed to the musical end of the spectrum. I believe I have been subscribed to that thread for some time as well though! I will check out what they have to say there as well.
> 
> Also from your earlier message, no problem on my service I had fun whilst doing it.
> 
> ...


 
 From their website:
  
*Product specs:*
 
Jack: 3.5mm plated TRS for use with PCs
Play Station 4: works fine through controller via a CTIA/TRRS adapter. Sounds strange at times if used through mixamp) 
Mac/PS3/Xbox 360 headset jacks with proper adapter (Macs will need a USB adapter)
*We're still working on final results for Xbox One (no solid solution yet)  *


----------



## big-country

Yeah I know I"ve seen some have success with it though, just was curious if anyone had here.


----------



## inseconds99

inseconds99 said:


> For the first 5 minutes of listening to the HD700's I couldn't stand them and I wasn't sure why. I've owned them before and I did like them. I was afraid that I had been spoiled from having the HD800's and 650's, it turns out the previous owner had the Right Wire plugged into the left ear cup and the Left wire plugged into the right ear cup. I was listening to Hotel California and I was like, the instruments don't sound like they are coming out of the right places... Sure enough, the person prior to me had them plugged in wrong LOL.
> 
> At this point, the HD650 is wonderfully musical, they do a great job making all kinds of music sound great but their comfort is horrible, their sound stage is mediocre and they don't have the greatest positional accuracy. At this point the 650's are falling far behind in the other 2 headphones, BUT their price per performance in incredible. I paid $196 for the HD650's after tax and shipping. That is an insane deal that probably wont be had again. I paid $388 after tax and shipping for the HD700's, also a great deal.
> 
> ...




Forgot to add that I now have my Ps4 and Xbox One as well as my PC connected to my X7. Can anyone point me in the direction on how to do voice chat on each console. I know it's not directly compatible through USB but there has to be a better workaround then I'm using now with running y cables and rca splitters.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Forgot to add that I now have my Ps4 and Xbox One as well as my PC connected to my X7. Can anyone point me in the direction on how to do voice chat on each console. I know it's not directly compatible through USB but there has to be a better workaround then I'm using now with running y cables and rca splitters.


 
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BHN05H2/?tag=geerling-20
  
 Plug this into the controller.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BHN05H2/?tag=geerling-20
> 
> Plug this into the controller.





Mmmmmmmnnnneah no.
First of all, it's $77 more expensive than the similar lapel mic recommended in the guide (first post).
Second, it appears to be TRRS, so if you plug it into the PS4 controller, you won't only have the problem of the other lapel mics where people can hear you but the controller abducts the incoming chat audio from the optical output, but also there is a possibility the game console might try to output game audio through the microphone as well.
Third, there is no connection between this lapel mic and the Xbox One.

Generally, the XBox One really is a pain in the ass for chat unless you have DIY soldering skills and you can modify a chat adapter. There are a few options (simplest just sticking to the pedestrian but servicabke mic in the Kinect), but I would probably go with the splitters and RCA cables inseconds99 already uses.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Mmmmmmmnnnneah no.
> First of all, it's $77 more expensive than the similar lapel mic recommended in the guide (first post).
> Second, it appears to be TRRS, so if you plug it into the PS4 controller, you won't only have the problem of the other lapel mics where people can hear you but the controller abducts the incoming chat audio from the optical output, but also there is a possibility the game console might try to output game audio through the microphone as well.
> Third, there is no connection between this lapel mic and the Xbox One.
> ...


 
 Now it is possible to set input and output chat device separately on PS4 so the incoming voice chat can be directed to the regular audio device. It is more expensive than a 3$ Neweer mic but I'm sure cheaper solutions can be found that will offer the advantage of having a slightly cleaner setup (no Y-splitter)


----------



## Change is Good

Waiting for Witcher 3 like...


----------



## PETEREK

Made an adapter for my HD700 to accept my V-Moda BoomPro cable, SUCH WIN. Oh, and I murdered the 700's, all black.


----------



## burritoboy9984

peterek said:


> Made an adapter for my HD700 to accept my V-Moda BoomPro cable, SUCH WIN. Oh, and I murdered the 700's, all black.




Nice, looks good as always.


----------



## AxelCloris

peterek said:


> Made an adapter for my HD700 to accept my V-Moda BoomPro cable, SUCH WIN. Oh, and I murdered the 700's, all black.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Awesome work, those look gorgeous


----------



## PETEREK

Thanks guys, the sound is just as good as their looks


----------



## Fegefeuer

Closed Sennheiser Flagship


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> Closed Sennheiser Flagship


 
  
 Reports say it'll be around 500€, definitely not cheap.


----------



## Fegefeuer

They have another surprise. Let's see if they reveal it in a few days at the High End.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> They have another surprise. Let's see if they reveal it in a few days at the High End.




I know you know that we know that you know what the surprise is....

Please...do tell us lol


----------



## inseconds99

I hope they don't come out with an HD800 followup as I just purchased it. I will be pissed, I have 2 more days to return it if I want to.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> I hope they don't come out with an HD800 followup as I just purchased it. I will be pissed, I have 2 more days to return it if I want to.


 
  
 Buying a flagship product, specifically one that's been on the market since 2009, a month before what is effectively the CES of the audio world seems a bit silly to me, to be honest. I don't mean to offend with my comment but it's something that people should think about around this time of year.
  
 That said, are you happy with the HD800? If they announce a new flagship to replace it whose to say that it's better than your current headphone? Only you are. And a product announced this week may take months or potentially even years to hit the market. If the HD800 makes you happy then the Munich show really shouldn't worry you.


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> Buying a flagship product, specifically one that's been on the market since 2009, a month before what is effectively the CES of the audio world seems a bit silly to me, to be honest. I don't mean to offend with my comment but it's something that people should think about around this time of year.
> 
> That said, are you happy with the HD800? If they announce a new flagship to replace it whose to say that it's better than your current headphone? Only you are. And a product announced this week may take months or potentially even years to hit the market. If the HD800 makes you happy then the Munich show really shouldn't worry you.


 
  
 As I am only about a year into the high end audio I was unaware of such event as if I was I would have thought twice about the purchase. Although I do like the HD800, it doesn't mean that if there is a newer headphone announced that it wouldn't be better for me. Obviously it could worse to, but by Wednesday I will be out of return policy for the headphones and there won't be many people looking to purchase it used as most will wait for the new headphone unless I loose my shirt on the sale.
  
 Just frustrated as if I knew I would have exercised some patients and waited lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> As I am only about a year into the high end audio I was unaware of such event as if I was I would have thought twice about the purchase. Although I do like the HD800, it doesn't mean that if there is a newer headphone announced that it wouldn't be better for me. Obviously it could worse to, but by Wednesday I will be out of return policy for the headphones and there won't be many people looking to purchase it used as most will wait for the new headphone unless I loose my shirt on the sale.
> 
> Just frustrated as if I knew I would have exercised some patients and waited lol.


 
  
 My 2 cents, if Sennheiser has something coming to replace the HD800 expect it to be expensive. Very expensive. Possibly in the realm of current flagships, $2k-5k. That's what I think we'll see if there is a replacement for the HD800. They've seen headphones sell at that price and sell well, they won't be afraid to test those waters for themselves.
  
 I'd be perfectly happy with an HD800, especially if I got it on sale.


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> My 2 cents, if Sennheiser has something coming to replace the HD800 expect it to be expensive. Very expensive. Possibly in the realm of current flagships, $2k-5k. That's what I think we'll see if there is a replacement for the HD800. They've seen headphones sell at that price and sell well, they won't be afraid to test those waters for themselves.
> 
> I'd be perfectly happy with an HD800, especially if I got it on sale.


 
 I appreciate the feedback. I am very happy with my 800's so far and am working on finishing my direct comparison to the HD700/HD650's (currently own them all simultaneously) in this post soon. I am not sure if you have been following some of my feedback in previous posts but I am currently on a quest to find headphones that have *all day comfort*, gaming excellence and have transparency, great sound stage and resolution.
  
 But as a cutting edge tech enthusiast I will feel disappointed when/if they announce the next flagship as I would have spent the money to own them.


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > My 2 cents, if Sennheiser has something coming to replace the HD800 expect it to be expensive. Very expensive. Possibly in the realm of current flagships, $2k-5k. That's what I think we'll see if there is a replacement for the HD800. They've seen headphones sell at that price and sell well, they won't be afraid to test those waters for themselves.
> ...




Well, the good news is, that incredible sound coming out of your HD800 won't change one bit, even if the do release a new headphone.


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> I appreciate the feedback. I am very happy with my 800's so far and am working on finishing my direct comparison to the HD700/HD650's (currently own them all simultaneously) in this post soon. I am not sure if you have been following some of my feedback in previous posts but I am currently on a quest to find headphones that have *all day comfort*, gaming excellence and have transparency, great sound stage and resolution.
> 
> But as a cutting edge tech enthusiast I will feel disappointed when/if they announce the next flagship as I would have spent the money to own them.


 
  
 If you want to covet something, covet this pairing.
  





  
 STAX SR-009 and the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE. More cutting edge than the HD800 and quite the pretty penny.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That Senn is hideous.


----------



## Change is Good

I would welcome a new Senn flagship. That just means lower priced HD800s...


----------



## PETEREK

change is good said:


> I would welcome a new Senn flagship. That just means lower priced HD800s...


 
 YES!


----------



## AxelCloris

It's all about gaming with the HE1000.


----------



## PETEREK

axelcloris said:


> It's all about gaming with the HE1000.


 
 HA! I wonder what that would be like. You would have to be using some 4K monitors and a serious graphics card for that to even look right.


----------



## AxelCloris

peterek said:


> HA! I wonder what that would be like. You would have to be using some 4K monitors and a serious graphics card for that to even look right.




Well I can let you know what they're like with the PS4 soon. Far from 4k and the graphics card is adequate.


----------



## PETEREK

axelcloris said:


> Well I can let you know what they're like with the PS4 soon. Far from 4k and the graphics card is adequate.


 
 WHAT? You have one coming? That's awesome man. I play on XB1 myself, even though I have a decent PC (i7 @3.4GHz 12gb DDR3, HD6870 GPU). Console gaming is best for me, been doing it my whole life.
  
 I want to see pictures of you pwning noobs with an HE1000 on your head. HAHA


----------



## akatsuki

axelcloris said:


> It's all about gaming with the HE1000.


 

 Yep, run through the Astro MixAmp... Awesome


----------



## PETEREK

akatsuki said:


> Yep, run through the Astro MixAmp... Awesome


 
 I use one too! I have mine sneakily tucked under my desk near the wall to keep it out of the way until I game. My XB1 is behind the monitor on the right in the 2nd picture. 
  

  
 excuse the mess, but this is what I am dealing with. I have some Polk Audio Hampden speakers on the way to replace the A2's.

  
 btw, my camera is terrible unless the shots are super close up, apparently.


----------



## Fegefeuer

rudyae86 said:


> I know you know that we know that you know what the surprise is....
> 
> Please...do tell us lol


 
  
 TOTL closed headphone. No HD 800 successor soon.


----------



## PETEREK

fegefeuer said:


> TOTL closed headphone. No HD 800 successor soon.


 
 Are you an insider? This isn't the first time I have heard about the coming of a new open flagship from Sennheiser.


----------



## AxelCloris

peterek said:


> WHAT? You have one coming? That's awesome man. I play on XB1 myself, even though I have a decent PC (i7 @3.4GHz 12gb DDR3, HD6870 GPU). Console gaming is best for me, been doing it my whole life.
> 
> I want to see pictures of you pwning noobs with an HE1000 on your head. HAHA


 
  
 I will indeed post some photos of my dominance in the realm of gaming. And since I don't PvP, that means I'm beating up a weak AI.


----------



## Change is Good

After reading some reviews, looks like Witcher 3 is one of those rare games that is actually living up to the hype.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Closed Sennheiser Flagship
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Is that... really... what it will look like? To me it looks like an M50 or closed Grado, but oversized and too big for it's yolks to move much. Look at the size of those cups! You could pop them off an have a spot of tea, and serve your mate too with the other!

It looks like it will stick out obnoxiously far from your ears and have a significant gap between the side of your head and the headband. It also looks uncomfortable. Eugh!


----------



## Evshrug

peterek said:


> Are you an insider? This isn't the first time I have heard about the coming of a new open flagship from Sennheiser.




He specifically said it was a top of the line *CLOSED* headphone. No open totl to be released soon... Not to happen... Won't be soon... Open isn't what's happening...


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> He specifically said it was a top of the line *CLOSED* headphone. No open totl to be released soon... Not to happen... Won't be soon... Open isn't what's happening...




Exactly, I am relieved about that. Love my hd800 and wouldn't want to have small regrets in the purchase. (Spoiler) I have created 2 RMA's yesterday. My decision has been made.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Is that... really... what it will look like? To me it looks like an M50 or closed Grado, but oversized and too big for it's yolks to move much. Look at the size of those cups! You could pop them off an have a spot of tea, and serve your mate too with the other!
> 
> It looks like it will stick out obnoxiously far from your ears and have a significant gap between the side of your head and the headband. It also looks uncomfortable. Eugh!







evshrug said:


> He specifically said it was a top of the line *CLOSED* headphone. No open totl to be released soon... Not to happen... Won't be soon... Open isn't what's happening...




Such enthusiasm! Who knocked over your cheerios, this morning?


----------



## PETEREK

evshrug said:


> He specifically said it was a top of the line *CLOSED* headphone. No open totl to be released soon... Not to happen... Won't be soon... Open isn't what's happening...



I realize that. I am saying that separately from the closed rumor we all just heard, I have heard before that there will be an open back TOTL from Sennheiser before now. Now I will ask you the same thing; are YOU an insider?


----------



## Change is Good

peterek said:


> I realize that. I am saying that separately from the closed rumor we all just heard, I have heard before that there will be an open back TOTL from Sennheiser before now. Now I will ask you the same thing; are YOU an insider?




The way some people carry themselves in these threads, they are ALL insiders...


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> The way some people carry themselves in these threads, they are ALL insiders...




But my uncle's dog's breeder is friends with a guy who knows a guy whose mom works as Sennheiser.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> The way some people carry themselves in these threads, they are ALL insiders...


 
  
 I like being an insider. It's climate controlled.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I like being an insider. It's climate controlled.




So is my storage unit.


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy - I am still waiting for Your COP impressions. Really curious about Your opinion on them.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Newegg has the Philips SHP9500 for just $50 with code EMCASKN69. Free shipping with Super Eggsaver. Anyone looking for a pair of budget entry level gaming cans should jump on it. I still use these over my X1's.


----------



## Madkap

Just got my X2's and wow... they sound amazing... I don't know how I lived without a decent pair of headphones in my life.


----------



## rudyae86

madkap said:


> Just got my X2's and wow... they sound amazing... I don't know how I lived without a decent pair of headphones in my life.




Decent? Lol

You make it sound like its lacking something. I want to jump on a pair as well but Im trying out my other headphones that I would need to sell one in order to purchase an X2. I had the X1 and loved it but the Bass was sometimes bleeding into the mids.


----------



## speakerlao

Anyone here have the *Ultrasone HFI-15G*? I want something very lightweight and saw these on ebay for around $70, but also saw the original post rated the competitiveness the same as a pair of $15 koss ear hangers. Is that s-logic beneficial in competitive games like L4D2?


----------



## Madkap

rudyae86 said:


> Decent? Lol
> 
> You make it sound like its lacking something. I want to jump on a pair as well but Im trying out my other headphones that I would need to sell one in order to purchase an X2. I had the X1 and loved it but the Bass was sometimes bleeding into the mids.


 

  I'm no expert but I don't think the X2's are missing anything. They are worth every cent and more!


----------



## AxelCloris

speakerlao said:


> Anyone here have the *Ultrasone HFI-15G*? I want something very lightweight and saw these on ebay for around $70, but also saw the original post rated the competitiveness the same as a pair of $15 koss ear hangers. Is that s-logic beneficial in competitive games like L4D2?


 
  
@Mad Lust Envy did a review of them on the first page. He may even have a pair for sale.


----------



## OGMCVilleTC

I already have a mixamp pro (not the 2013 edition) and just purchased the G4me One headset after reading reviews. Didn't know I needed an external amp and am going to purchase the shiit magni after reading the guides on here. Is the setup the same for the Xbox one as for other consoles? I know the Xbox one has the adaptor that must be used in order to use a headset. How should volume be addressed since there are three devices that are able to control the volume? Just turn it all the way to game on the mixamp? What about the controller volume adjustment? 

Next question. I just built a new PC and plan to game on it also. How could I hook up my headphones to simulate surround sound? I have the Asus Rampage V Extreme.

Edit: I see that the magni is discontinued. Should I grab the magni 2 or the magni 2 uber? I also found the PC gamer link. Although if anyone has experience with my PC question feel free to chime in.


----------



## burritoboy9984

ogmcvilletc said:


> I already have a mixamp pro (not the 2013 edition) and just purchased the G4me One headset after reading reviews. Didn't know I needed an external amp and am going to purchase the shiit magni after reading the guides on here. Is the setup the same for the Xbox one as for other consoles? I know the Xbox one has the adaptor that must be used in order to use a headset. How should volume be addressed since there are three devices that are able to control the volume? Just turn it all the way to game on the mixamp? What about the controller volume adjustment?
> 
> Next question. I just built a new PC and plan to game on it also. How could I hook up my headphones to simulate surround sound? I have the Asus Rampage V Extreme.
> 
> Edit: I see that the magni is discontinued. Should I grab the magni 2 or the magni 2 uber? I also found the PC gamer link. Although if anyone has experience with my PC question feel free to chime in.




You don't "need" an amp, and honestly won't need one with the senns. As far as the headset adapter, turn the game volume all the way down, and the voice volume all the way up. Then use the mixamp to adjust them where you want them.


----------



## OGMCVilleTC

burritoboy9984 said:


> You don't "need" an amp, and honestly won't need one with the senns. As far as the headset adapter, turn the game volume all the way down, and the voice volume all the way up. Then use the mixamp to adjust them where you want them.




I was under the impression that the mixamp couldn't fully power the senns. Is this not the case?


----------



## burritoboy9984

ogmcvilletc said:


> I was under the impression that the mixamp couldn't fully power the senns. Is this not the case?




I would suggest trying it without first. When I had my PC360's (virtually the same as the G4me Ones), the mixamp was enough for me. I ran them through my O2 and didn't notice enough of a difference to depend on the extra cable clutter.


----------



## OGMCVilleTC

burritoboy9984 said:


> I would suggest trying it without first. When I had my PC360's (virtually the same as the G4me Ones), the mixamp was enough for me. I ran them through my O2 and didn't notice enough of a difference to depend on the extra cable clutter.




I appreciate the help. I'll try without for a week or so then buy the magni through Amazon. Easy return policy if i don't like it. I plan on giving my father this setup for Christmas anyways. I plan on getting the mmx 300's and the X7 then. I just want to make sure it's going to be the best possible setup for him and my nephew. Well and myself while I'm using them.


----------



## Evshrug

peterek said:


> I realize that. I am saying that separately from the closed rumor we all just heard, I have heard before that there will be an open back TOTL from Sennheiser before now. Now I will ask you the same thing; are YOU an insider?



Haha no, wouldn't that be cool? 
I haven't heard anything concrete about an open headphone yet. I didn't compare them directly yet, but Sennheiser USA tweeted a narrow section of a headphone, looked like a closed back headphone with some controls on the earcup face. That may be the same one from the German magazine which Feg posted for us, but I haven't yet seen evidence of a new open headphone.




change is good said:


> Such enthusiasm! Who knocked over your cheerios, this morning?



If I saw someone like every single headphone, then I'd think that person was lying part of the time, or doesn't have a particular taste in aesthetics (doesn't have a preference).



change is good said:


> The way some people carry themselves in these threads, they are ALL insiders...





Just adding that so people know you're joking, not just making insinuations.


----------



## PETEREK

evshrug said:


> Haha no, wouldn't that be cool?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What?


----------



## Evshrug

peterek said:


> What?



I was saying, speaking generally, that I can't imagine somebody enthusiastically liking every headphone's looks. It happens that the Sennheiser showed just then looked big and bulky, not to my taste. If someone else likes it, ok, but it still looks ugly to me.

If I were worried about insiders, I'd be skeptical of someone who liked the looks of every headphone.


----------



## rudyae86

madkap said:


> I'm no expert but I don't think the X2's are missing anything. They are worth every cent and more!


 

 oh lol. Since you said decent, I was like "no way, it cant be just decent" lol.
  
 I know my X1s were worth every penny but trying out other headphones made me forget about them especially since I have the K7XX but for some reason I want to try the X2s now.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Just adding that so people know you're joking, not just making insinuations.




That requires too much work. Hence the avatar...


----------



## PacoTaco

ogmcvilletc said:


> I was under the impression that the mixamp couldn't fully power the senns. Is this not the case?


 
  
  


burritoboy9984 said:


> I would suggest trying it without first. When I had my PC360's (virtually the same as the G4me Ones), the mixamp was enough for me. I ran them through my O2 and didn't notice enough of a difference to depend on the extra cable clutter.


 
  
 The Mixamp is made for 32 ohm headphones, and can't drive much beyond that. Considering the Senn's have a decent resistance spike in the bass region, it does clip in that area. It's not something you'd notice right away, but it does happen.


----------



## litework

Hi all, just joined up.
  
 Just had a question regarding the ModMic. Please bare with me as I am an extreme noob when it comes to audio. Will it have any effect on the sound when mounted to an open ended headphone? (AKG K712)
  
 Also, regarding amps/dacs; does anyone suggest that there would be much difference in the O2+ODAC (I have one) vs the Woo Audio WA7? 
  
 Can you set any amp/dac to the highest bit depth and sampling rates available in your sound configuration menu? What about microphones? (ex. the AT2020 spec sheet states a bit depth of 16 and a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz, but also has the option available for 24/48. Can I use that?)


----------



## Yethal

litework said:


> Hi all, just joined up.
> 
> Just had a question regarding the ModMic. Please bare with me as I am an extreme noob when it comes to audio. Will it have any effect on the sound when mounted to an open ended headphone? (AKG K712)


 
 I have it mounted to my HD598, sonically I can't tell any difference, but I can feel them being heavier on the left side.


----------



## speakerlao

I ordered a pair of PortaPros, as I heard they are the same as the Koss KSC35. I hope they can at least outperform the clunky Steelseries V2 I've been using.
  
 Anyone ever use PortaPros for gaming? If so, how is sound positioning and 3d space awareness?


----------



## Yethal

speakerlao said:


> I ordered a pair of PortaPros, as I heard they are the same as the Koss KSC35. I hope they can at least outperform the clunky Steelseries V2 I've been using.
> 
> Anyone ever use PortaPros for gaming? If so, how is sound positioning and 3d space awareness?


 
 I had a steelseries headset a long time ago, and Porta Pro outperformed it in every way. Explosions sounded like explosions and not like farts, positioning was better (probably caused by the overall schittyness of the steelseries headset and not by some uberqualities of the koss). They're decent if You don't have anything else.


----------



## Evshrug

speakerlao said:


> I ordered a pair of PortaPros, as I heard they are the same as the Koss KSC35. I hope they can at least outperform the clunky Steelseries V2 I've been using.
> 
> Anyone ever use PortaPros for gaming? If so, how is sound positioning and 3d space awareness?



SportaPros share the same driver as the KSC35 if I recall correctly, but fit/earcup/clamp pressure all affect sound. I liked the Porta Pro anyway, they're pretty top choice for a budget headphone. Decent detail, you can hear notes across the range, work well with surround processing in games. They're an easy-to-drive 50 ohm impedance, I forget their sensitivity but they're still easy to be powered from portable devices. They won't beat an AD700x or AKG K612/712/7xx for sound separation, soundstage, or detail, but they will work well.


----------



## Sam21

KOSS never stops to amaze me, I have the KSC75 and the prodj200...I think they are giant killers.


----------



## slang

Hi! Was hoping to get some advice on a set of gaming headphones to be used with a PS4. 
  
 My ears tend to get really warm with headphones, and as a result I'm looking for a pair of open circumaural headphones that keep your head as cool as possible. Being easy to drive so I can plug them straight into the DS4 controller is a bonus. I normally use IEMs, but I've been yearning for a bit more soundstage lately, and I also want to be able to hear environmental sounds ex. if the doorbell/phone rings. 
  
 I've been looking at the Sennhesier 518/558 and adding a modmic, and they've been comfortable when I tried them in a store. However not many stores around me stock the AKGs and Beyers that are often brought up here. 
  
 From your experiences, do you have any recommendations on the above? Budget is around $200 (in Canada though, where everything is more expensive). Any advice is appreciated!


----------



## Change is Good

slang said:


> Hi! Was hoping to get some advice on a set of gaming headphones to be used with a PS4.
> 
> My ears tend to get really warm with headphones, and as a result I'm looking for a pair of open circumaural headphones that keep your head as cool as possible. Being easy to drive so I can plug them straight into the DS4 controller is a bonus. I normally use IEMs, but I've been yearning for a bit more soundstage lately, and I also want to be able to hear environmental sounds ex. if the doorbell/phone rings.
> 
> ...




Have you checked out the SoundMagic HP200? Not sure how much they would cost in Canada, though...


----------



## Evshrug

Honestly, slang, if you could find them I'd recommend you a pair of used (since they were recently discontinued) Sony MDR-MA900. Light, easy to drive, low clamp to keep your blood circulation flowing and also very open to vent heat, one of the titans of soundstage, it would hit all your points mentioned.

I haven't heard the HD558 or HD518 myself, but universally in all reviews they confirm that those headphones have a firm clamping force. Clamp is a thing that contributes to MY ears getting hot. If you already tried them on and found them comfortable, well then cool, but in my experience your ears would be cooler with the MA900 (which I have demo'd in my house for a week, thanks Mad!).


----------



## Yethal

That's weird, everybody here says that the 5X8 series has a huge clamping force. However my 598 are rather loose, not sure if the previous owner stretched them or they just weren't that clampy to begin with and You guys are overreacting.


----------



## AxelCloris

There were a few people asking about MLE's COP review. Well wait no more because it's now live on Headphone.Guru. We'll probably see it added to the guide some time soon.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-custom-one-pro-plus-custom-individuality-personified/

Here it is, guys. Considering how slow and unmotivated as I've been in updating the guide lately, the next update will have both the Shure 1540 and COP review added to the guide at the same time.

I haven't been on headfi much lately, probably due to being very happy with the X2 and TH900.


----------



## akatsuki

So Mad Lust - even reading the reviews it is unclear to me which surround system to get to pair with X2s/V-modas for my PS4.
  
 Current mixamp seems to be the best of the easily found ones with the X7 taking the high end market. Is there anything that is better than the Mixamp but not as pricey as the X7? What about just buying the Sony Silvers and using the included surround dongle?
  
 EDIT - added question re: Sony Silver dongle.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There is no useful device between the "overloaded" X7 and the Mixamp unfortunately. Turtle Beach hasn't released their TAC (uses DTS Headphone X) yet.


----------



## Evshrug

I'd argue that the original DSS I had would slot between a mixamp and X7, as far as sound quality goes...
Neither the DSS or Mixamp are as resolving as the X7, and the DSS costs far less(~$30-$20) on eBay than a new Mixamp, however the DSS has an amp with greater headroom (did an okay job driving my DT880 600ohm headphone for gaming) and less background noise than a Mixamp. The DSS' chat features are limited to just a USB passthrough for the microphone, so live chat mixing with an analogue dial is the only real "competitive advantage" of the Mixamp in my mind, however with PS4 party chat controls on mixing chat and game volume greatly diminish the value of a Mixamp in my mind compared to any of the other surround processor options. Doesn't help that so far the background noise/hiss has gotten worse with each Mixamp revision by Astro, according to MLE.
That said, there is a noticeable jump in clarity and "pulling away the curtains" between the DSS and the X7. The DSS is certainly able to satisfy gaming audio on it's own quite ably, but the X7 raises the bar.


----------



## akatsuki

So can anyone comment on the Sony Silver headset surround adapter?


----------



## slang

@Change is Good I haven't seen them before, will do some research though they look really interesting. 
  
@Evshrug These look awesome, thanks for the recommendation!


----------



## godofcookery

stillhart said:


> Hmmm... Well I know mad dogs are pretty closed sounding ; they're great for music but not so much for gaming IMO. I'd probably stick with the shure or alpha dog, then get a cheap (but decent) amp.


 
  
  


purpleangel said:


> The SB-Z can not send SBX headphone surround sound thru the Front Speaker jack, just basic stereo audio, which fine for music.
> I'm not against anyone using the SB-Z's headphone jack for connecting to an external headphone amplifier, just think the SB-Z's front speaker jack or the Modi analog output jacks, might provide a slightly better signal to the external amp.
> Just with the Modi he is getting a DAC away from the inside of the computer case, and inside the case there might be electrical noise that might effect  the signal.
> And the SB-Z can send both music and SBX thru the optical port.


 
  
 So i tried out both the Alpha Dogs and the Shure 1540.  My assessment of the sound is from such a layman's point of view I wont really bother other than to say, (unamped) it stands to reason that I preferred the 1540s.  It felt much more engaging then the ADs and when I tried out various RPGs and other types of games, I felt that the soundstaging is wider.  
  
 The main issue on both these headphones was fit.  The shure cup shape never fit on my ears properly, and always put pressure towards the back of my ear. At times they felt like weird on-ears, instead of circumaural. (note: I have relatively big ears.)    So onto the ADs.  They fit decently around my ear, though still not enveloping properly, but I really felt a hard pressure under my ears, which my previous ATH-A900s didn't do.  Sadly I returned both of the headphones as they didn't really work out for me, or "fit" my needs.
  
 So I ordered a pair of ATH-W1000z.  I haven't really had a chance to test them out yet, but I am hoping that they will have a similar feel to the ATH-A900 but with a more improved sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alpha Dog is reference, 1540 is a bit more fun tilted, which is why it can come across as more engaging. All about preferences.


----------



## godofcookery

mad lust envy said:


> Alpha Dog is reference, 1540 is a bit more fun tilted, which is why it can come across as more engaging. All about preferences.


 
  
 Nice, well it seems like I may next try out the X2, seems to be gettng glowing recs everywhere.


----------



## VictorGG

mad lust envy said:


> http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-custom-one-pro-plus-custom-individuality-personified/
> 
> Here it is, guys. Considering how slow and unmotivated as I've been in updating the guide lately, the next update will have both the Shure 1540 and COP review added to the guide at the same time.
> 
> I haven't been on headfi much lately, probably due to being very happy with the X2 and TH900.


 

 Hi MLE, Could you do a quick comparison of the X2 and TH900 sound?
 I currently own an X2, think they are awesome! Very fun HPs... just looking for the next step to HIFI.. mostly for rock (all genres) listening! Right now considering TH900 and LCDX
  
 Thanks!


----------



## speakerlao

Just got my pair of portapro and I don't understand how they sound so good for $23 shipped *(**kutisy on ebay, he lowers price mid/early week slightly)*. I was worried they would be fakes coming from China, but I followed this guide, and they are legit! These things have to be the $25 budget king, I can't see how you could get anything better sounding at $25.
  
 My question. Is it best to run these in stereo for gaming, use some surround sound emulation software, or just set to 7.1 in game without emulation software?
  
 Thanks


----------



## AxelCloris

speakerlao said:


> Just got my pair of portapro and I don't understand how they sound so good for $23 shipped *(**kutisy on ebay, he lowers price mid/early week slightly)*. I was worried they would be fakes coming from China, but I followed this guide, and they are legit! These things have to be the $25 budget king, I can't see how you could get anything better sounding at $25.
> 
> My question. Is it best to run these in stereo for gaming, use some surround sound emulation software, or just set to 7.1 in game without emulation software?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Use surround DSP for the best experience. 7.1 settings in game are for digital out, won't do much for headphones without a Mixamp-style device. Stereo is fine for some stuff but surround processing takes immersion to another level for many games.
  
 I love my PortaPro too, they're great budget headphones. Whenever someone comes to me for a recommendation those are one of my go-to choices.


----------



## speakerlao

surround DSP? I don't think I have that option in my Realtek control panel.


----------



## rudyae86

speakerlao said:


> surround DSP? I don't think I have that option in my Realtek control panel.


 
 lol nope you wont have it unless your motherboard has a physical DSP or software based DSP like Razer Surround. Have you tried reading the first page of this thread though? Lots of information of what DSP is about. Read it once, twice and 3 times more. If you dont understand it, come back to us and ask us what you couldnt understand and we will try to answer the easiest way possible (well, some things take a lot more detail to explain).
  
 But to answer it quickly and the way I understand it.....
  
 A DSP is a device or software that can take 5.1 or 7.1 surround signal and process it to 2 channel audio so it can replicate that 5.1 or 7.1 signal with your headphones. We call this VSS or Virtual Surround Sound. Since headphones only have 2 drivers, physically, it cant do 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound like most home theater systems. Hence the need for a DSP.


----------



## Yethal

Actually, some Realtek soundcards come with built in Dolby Headphone support so he might be able to game on that


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Actually, some Realtek soundcards come with built in Dolby Headphone support so he might be able to game on that


 
 Hmmm which one though? As far as I know in my short life as a PC master race, I have only seen Creative labs core3d chip on some Mobos.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Hmmm which one though? As far as I know in my short life as a PC master race, I have only seen Creative labs core3d chip on some Mobos.


 
 After some research I'm pretty sure all of them support it.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> After some research I'm pretty sure all of them support it.


 
 Hmmm nope, I dont think all of the Mobos support Dolby headphone. I dont see that in my Mobo. Im sure its only a few select motherboards. But pretty cool that at least some of them do have it. It would be better if the mobo had optical out and send processed audio to an external DAC/AMP to get better sound quality.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Hmmm nope, I dont think all of the Mobos support Dolby headphone. I dont see that in my Mobo. Im sure its only a few select motherboards. But pretty cool that at least some of them do have it. It would be better if the mobo had optical out and send processed audio to an external DAC/AMP to get better sound quality.


 
 Not all mobos, all realtek built-in soundcards. And they can only output Dolby Headphone through the actual headphone out, not s/pdif


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Not all mobos, all realtek built-in soundcards. And they can only output Dolby Headphone through the actual headphone out, not s/pdif


 
 hmmm Im still looking but there was no option on my motherboard for doing that. Even if its a Realtek audio chipset, it is probably based on software than hardware.
  
 here is a link where you can install software and it will give you dolby headphone.
  
 http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=392085
  
 Again, it must be for certain motherboards/brands with Dolby software.
  
 Edit: This is supposed to install for any realtek audio chipset. Not bad but I do wonder how it will sound depending on the motherboard and which realtek audio chip its using....


----------



## Yethal

It's going to sound mediocre at best, Realtek soundcards aren't really a high quality products.


----------



## akatsuki

I would love it if Creative would release a lower end version of the X7 aimed at consoles.
  
 I just bought a Sony Silver headset to use the surround adapter with my recently purchased Fidelio X2/V-moda stuff. Will report back how well it works. Figure it will be underpowered, but may work out okay. Also like the idea of using a Sony direct supported device.


----------



## Evshrug

akatsuki said:


> I would love it if Creative would release a lower end version of the X7 aimed at consoles.
> 
> I just bought a Sony Silver headset to use the surround adapter with my recently purchased Fidelio X2/V-moda stuff. Will report back how well it works. Figure it will be underpowered, but may work out okay. Also like the idea of using a Sony direct supported device.




Creative DID have one, the Recon3D USB. I bought 2 at $70 each, Stillhart got two at a ridiculous closeout price at his local Fry's, but now I'm only seeing it for sale in a bundle pack with Creative's Omega wireless headphone (or separately, used, on eBay). Here's hoping they make something new to fit that product tier.

The headphones you mentioned having ought to have enough volume with most amping equipment... I get the whole "Sony with Sony" thing, but it's also a shame IMO to buy a headphone kit just to use the included accessory. I know Sony can make great audio gear, but I know they also make some not so great audio gear (I really don't like the quality coming from my DS4's headphone jack). Good luck!


----------



## jincuteguy

So between Senn HD8 and Philip X2, which one would you guys pick?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Creative DID have one, the Recon3D USB. I bought 2 at $70 each, Stillhart got two at a ridiculous closeout price at his local Fry's, but now I'm only seeing it for sale in a bundle pack with Creative's Omega wireless headphone (or separately, used, on eBay). Here's hoping they make something new to fit that product tier.
> 
> The headphones you mentioned having ought to have enough volume with most amping equipment... I get the whole "Sony with Sony" thing, but it's also a shame IMO to buy a headphone kit just to use the included accessory. I know Sony can make great audio gear, but I know they also make some not so great audio gear (*I really don't like the quality coming from my DS4's headphone jack*). Good luck!




Did you really expect anything more?


----------



## Yethal

DS4 headphone jack quality is exactly as it should be, good enough for people who do not care enough to use something better than DS4 headphone jack.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> Did you really expect anything more?


 
  
 Evshrug wanted BALANCED XLR.


----------



## akatsuki

Given the complaints about hiss on the MixAmp (plus numerous reports of shoddy build quality when opened up), I figured the Sony Silvers are like $30 for virtual surround with free mediocre headphones thrown in. Hard to beat that.
  
 Did the Recon have chat mixing capabilities?


----------



## Change is Good

akatsuki said:


> Did the Recon have chat mixing capabilities?


 
  
 Only on PC, if I remember correctly. One will have to tweak console's manufacturer chat settings, otherwise, or just lower the in game volume.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Only on PC, if I remember correctly. One will have to tweak console's manufacturer chat settings, otherwise, or just lower the in game volume.




It also has a mic gain, low med and hi


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

Guys I use Astros mixamp > schiit vali and a kg q701 for console gaming but about to switch over to pc gaming will that same setup be fine for PC or is there something else I need to buy ? I'm new to PC so don't know anything really do I need a sound card ?


----------



## Draulius

Was hoping to see some comparison between the Q701 and AD900(X) for gaming, not the AD700's. Would be helpful.


----------



## rudyae86

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Guys I use Astros mixamp > schiit vali and a kg q701 for console gaming but about to switch over to pc gaming will that same setup be fine for PC or is there something else I need to buy ? I'm new to PC so don't know anything really do I need a sound card ?




Well it really depends how you want to have your set up. More than likely, you wont need that Astro Mix Amp for PC since there are better options for PC in terms of sound cards. Im sure you want to use the Vali as well? Asus DG does Dolby Headphone, you can purchase an optical Modi and connect it through SPDIF, and then your Vali to the Modi. By doing it this way, you dont double amp and have a better DAC as well. Im sure the sound would improve very well.


----------



## Smiped

rudyae86 said:


> Well it really depends how you want to have your set up. More than likely, you wont need that Astro Mix Amp for PC since there are better options for PC in terms of sound cards. Im sure you want to use the Vali as well? Asus DG does Dolby Headphone, you can purchase an optical Modi and connect it through SPDIF, and then your Vali to the Modi. By doing it this way, you dont double amp and have a better DAC as well. Im sure the sound would improve very well.


 
 Hi I am a complete noob when it comes to audiophile. But I am also wondering what soundcard should I get if I am using an AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Headphone for directional hearing for a FPS game like CS: GO on PC. I am playing on my laptop so I don't know if sound cards are compatible with laptops. Or should I get an amp for my laptop? I don't really understand the lingo terms like Vali, SPDIF. Please recommend me a soundcard/amp for my AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Headphone/laptop setup for the best directional hearing (footsteps, etc)


----------



## Yethal

smiped said:


> Hi I am a complete noob when it comes to audiophile. But I am also wondering what soundcard should I get if I am using an AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Headphone for directional hearing for a FPS game like CS: GO on PC. I am playing on my laptop so I don't know if sound cards are compatible with laptops. Or should I get an amp for my laptop? I don't really understand the lingo terms like Vali, SPDIF. Please recommend me a soundcard/amp for my AKG Q 701 Quincy Jones Headphone/laptop setup for the best directional hearing (footsteps, etc)


 
 How much money do You have?


----------



## Smiped

yethal said:


> How much money do You have?


 

 Well I can spend about $300 - $400.


----------



## Yethal

smiped said:


> Well I can spend about $300 - $400.


 
 If You have a laptop then USB soundcard is the only option. Go For Soundblaster Z or, if You want to spend more, the X7


----------



## Smiped

yethal said:


> If You have a laptop then USB soundcard is the only option. Go For Soundblaster Z or, if You want to spend more, the X7




Woah that is a drastic price difference between the Z and X7. If I get the Z will my ability to hear footsteps/directional sound be drastically less when compared to when I get the X7? Because I want to save money if I can.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> If You have a laptop then USB soundcard is the only option. Go For Soundblaster Z or, if You want to spend more, the X7




Sound Blaster z is not USB, its PCI express. If you want something similar to the Z, Sound Blaster Omni would be your choice since its USb

Edi: Its funny how you said you dont know the lingo around here and you mentioned Vali. You mentioned Vali in your console set up, astro>schiit Vali. I said Vali because that it the amp you use with the astro mix amp. So its no lingo lol


----------



## Smiped

rudyae86 said:


> Sound Blaster z is not USB, its PCI express. If you want something similar to the Z, Sound Blaster Omni would be your choice since its USb
> 
> Edi: Its funny how you said you dont know the lingo around here and you mentioned Vali. You mentioned Vali in your console set up, astro>schiit Vali. I said Vali because that it the amp you use with the astro mix amp. So its no lingo lol




I'm not the same guy as before.


----------



## Smiped

rudyae86 said:


> Sound Blaster z is not USB, its PCI express. If you want something similar to the Z, Sound Blaster Omni would be your choice since its USb
> 
> Edi: Its funny how you said you dont know the lingo around here and you mentioned Vali. You mentioned Vali in your console set up, astro>schiit Vali. I said Vali because that it the amp you use with the astro mix amp. So its no lingo lol




Also I looked on Amazon and the sound blaster omni had average reviews. I was thinking could I use a FiiO E10K USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier (Black) instead for my akg 701 laptop setup for good positional audio?


----------



## rudyae86

smiped said:


> I'm not the same guy as before.


 
 lol my bad, this is what happens when using your phone smh.


----------



## rudyae86

smiped said:


> Also I looked on Amazon and the sound blaster omni had average reviews. I was thinking could I use a FiiO E10K USB DAC and Headphone Amplifier (Black) instead for my akg 701 laptop setup for good positional audio?


 
 Im sure you can, I think the E10k has an optical in? That way you can hook up the amp and then your headphones. As far as sound quality goes though, the DAC  in the Omni may be better than the E10k.
  
 From what I was told a few months ago, DAC of Sound Blaster Z/ Omni is similar to a Schiit Modi. Amp would probably be a deciding factor in synergy.


----------



## akatsuki

Okay plugged in the Sony Silver headset today - no critical listening yet- but the headset itself is very tight and uncomfortable. Pretty much tossed it immediately.
  
 The USB surround dongle seems to have enough power to drive the X2/V-moda combo. Will do a surround evaluation later, but if you don't want to spend the $120 on a Mixamp, this may be a viable solution for PS4 owners for $30.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I don't own the pro version I have the Mixamp TX 5.8 (A30). Question, will this work with the PS4?
It doesn't have the micro USB port just a regular USB 2.0. So all I need a a male to male USB to cable to connect to the PS4? Will that work?

Also what are the odds that Astro will use Dolby Atmos headphones in this years headset? Battlefront is supposed to 
Use Atmos so I'm hoping for a new line from Astro.


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> I don't own the pro version I have the Mixamp TX 5.8 (A30). Question, will this work with the PS4?
> It doesn't have the micro USB port just a regular USB 2.0. So all I need a a male to male USB to cable to connect to the PS4? Will that work?
> 
> Also what are the odds that Astro will use Dolby Atmos headphones in this years headset? Battlefront is supposed to
> Use Atmos so I'm hoping for a new line from Astro.




I dont know about the first part but the second part.....Currently there is no decoder that can output Dolby Atmos for Headphones in games. SWBF will have Dolby Atmos but for PC only. Even then, we dont know how that will work for PC Master Race since Dolby Atmos ready A/Vs are pricey and I guess this Dolby Atmos is just for A/Vs and not for headphones.


----------



## Yethal

smiped said:


> Woah that is a drastic price difference between the Z and X7. If I get the Z will my ability to hear footsteps/directional sound be drastically less when compared to when I get the X7? Because I want to save money if I can.


 
 Probably not, go for the cheaper one


rudyae86 said:


> Sound Blaster z is not USB, its PCI express. If you want something similar to the Z, Sound Blaster Omni would be your choice since its USb
> 
> Edi: Its funny how you said you dont know the lingo around here and you mentioned Vali. You mentioned Vali in your console set up, astro>schiit Vali. I said Vali because that it the amp you use with the astro mix amp. So its no lingo lol


 
 You're right of course, I meant the Omni (USB one)


----------



## Helvetica bold

rudyae86 said:


> I dont know about the first part but the second part.....Currently there is no decoder that can output Dolby Atmos for Headphones in games. SWBF will have Dolby Atmos but for PC only. Even then, we dont know how that will work for PC Master Race since Dolby Atmos ready A/Vs are pricey and I guess this Dolby Atmos is just for A/Vs and not for headphones.


 

 Dolby has a version of Atmos for Mobile. It could be possible that Atmos mobile will replace "Dolby headphones" moving forward. 
 http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/03/dolby-atmos-for-mobile-ears-on-can-you-really-get-immersive-surround-sound-from-regular-headphones/
  
 The new Kindle Fire HDX has the Atmos mobile tech but theres only demos to listen to.
 http://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/tablet.html
  
 It could be cool if Astro or Turtle Beach would use the tech this year.


----------



## implodingtreble

*This question is for gaming on the ps4 (mainly on the ps4). ps3, watching movies/Listening to music both on the Ps4 and Computer*

 There is a lot of thread to go through so bare with me if this has been answered. I already got my mic situation figured out. Blue Snowball Ice, works damn well so far, only had it for a couple days and very pleased with the results.

 Now for the audio department. I already know I'm going to get a Magni 2 along with either DT 990's 250 ohm or Massdrops AKG K7XX Limited Edition cans. Although the K7XX is only 80 ohms which is kind of deterring me. 

 Now for the real question. Is there any virtual surround sound solution that actually decodes DTS? Are there any that are affordable ($150ish USD) not listed?

 Is it possible just to get a 5.1 receiver and plug my DAC/AMP through that to achieve Virtual Surround Sound? 

*Type of music I listen to (for anyone willing to weigh in on headphones)*
  
 All the levels of rock mainly, "Extreme Murderous" metal, to softer metal like Slipknot, to old school rock; Alice cooper, Tom Petty is considered rock right?, Ramones, The doors, Journey to alternative; Broken Bells, JPNSGRLS, Cherub and of course a little bit of hip hop, edm and trap.

 So I pretty much listen to anything and everything...I like Bass, but I also like clarity...I'm new to all this so I really can't wait to experience music again. It's a bit costly, but I can't wait for this journey. I feel like its going to be like when Stan Smith first listen to My Morning Jacket. 

 cheers.


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> Dolby has a version of Atmos for Mobile. It could be possible that Atmos mobile will replace "Dolby headphones" moving forward.
> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/03/dolby-atmos-for-mobile-ears-on-can-you-really-get-immersive-surround-sound-from-regular-headphones/
> 
> The new Kindle Fire HDX has the Atmos mobile tech but theres only demos to listen to.
> ...


 
 That is true but I didnt mention those because they are currently exclusive for those electronics. Yes it would be nice to have those but you have to remember Astro and Turtle Beach will have to pay alot of money to have that technology in their devices. They could do it, but it would cost us alot as well.
  
 Im sure that it will be arriving sooner or later, with Headphone X trying to make a statement, it needs to be countered with something else as well.


----------



## NamelessPFG

helvetica bold said:


> Dolby has a version of Atmos for Mobile. It could be possible that Atmos mobile will replace "Dolby headphones" moving forward.
> http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/03/dolby-atmos-for-mobile-ears-on-can-you-really-get-immersive-surround-sound-from-regular-headphones/
> 
> The new Kindle Fire HDX has the Atmos mobile tech but theres only demos to listen to.
> ...


 
  
 I'm not sure if Dolby Atmos is using ambisonics or other 3D soundfield tech under the hood, but it's basically doing for movies what DirectSound3D and OpenAL did for PC games for years already.
  
 When you have a full 3D soundfield to draw from instead of discrete speaker channels, creating a convincing binaural mix for use on mobile devices or consoles is pretty straightforward. Dolby Labs most likely draws a bit from Dolby Headphone when downmixing an Atmos source for headphone use like on mobile devices.
  
 The thing is, Dolby Atmos is something implemented at the SOURCE, like Dolby Digital and Pro Logic II. It's more about recording sound information in a way that the sensation of surround can be derived than it is making that sensation happen, as I understand it. (Unless they're screwing with me and pulling another Aureal A3D or Creative CMSS-3D by using the same branding for completely different technologies.)
  
 In other words, an external Dolby Atmos processor would do you no good with existing games and other sources designed with conventional speaker systems in mind, so that's probably why you're not seeing it.
  
 Thankfully, I think 3D sound is about to make a huge comeback in the gaming industry, but it'll take Oculus VR's new audio API to make it happen. Let's face it, game developers generally didn't care about binaural sound over headphones until the recent resurgence of VR headsets.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I was thinking that since Battlefront is the very first branded Dolby Atmos game (PC only, so far) a 
 company like Astro could make a special Atmos headset for it. Astro released a special BF4 and Halo themed headset.
 True, Astro would have the extra cost of licensing new Dolby technology but its Star Wars were talking about. 
 If its possible I bet it would sell very well. 
  
 The PS4 and Xbox One have very powerful audio chips so I can't see why Atmos isn't possible.


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> I was thinking that since Battlefront is the very first branded Dolby Atmos game (PC only, so far) a
> company like Astro could make a special Atmos headset for it. Astro released a special BF4 and Halo themed headset.
> True, Astro would have the extra cost of licensing new Dolby technology but its Star Wars were talking about.
> If its possible I bet it would sell very well.
> ...


 
 WEll Astro seems to cater a bit more to the Console guys, which maybe its a reason why they have not made something Atmos ready. Making a special headset like they did for BF4 or Halo, well it could sell but thats just what it is....something special in looks. PS4 and Xbox One have AMD TrueAudio but that is dependent on what the game developer intends to use it or if he even uses it. Its not that Consoles or PC cant do Atmos, its about Asus, Astro, TurtleBeach, Sound Blaster, making a device in which it can properly do Dolby Atmos.
  
 I think you may not still grasp how Dolby headphone/SBX works. Its not really dependent on the system you are using, its about the game developer actually...hmmm how can I put it...them recording the audio and building it into the game in a format in which Dolby Atmos is sent to a, lets say an Astro Mix Amp that can take in that signal and then outputting it to 2 channel for the headphones. The key here is some company making such device to take advantage of Dolby Atmos.
  
 Some BluRays already have Dolby Atmos audio and all you really need is your A/V to do all the work and send out the corresponding audio to all your speakers, which is quite a few speakers and I cant remember the configuration of those speakers lol 7.2.2 or 7.1.2 honestly dont remember.
  
 The only thing I can imagine Dolby Atmos working for SWBF on PC is having an Asus Xonar sound card, Im guessing their flagship, in which it outputs Dolby Atmos to a Dolby Atmos ready A/V receiver which does all the work and sends the audio to all the speakers.
  
 Who ever has that set up though, probably has a chunk of money to enjoy such high fidelity audio lol
  
  
 EDIT: http://www.cnet.com/news/dolby-to-put-atmos-surround-sound-on-tablets-smartphones/
  
 Seems like they are already working with different companies and hopefully we will see something within this year. E3 maybe? or maybe before Christmas?
  
 I mean, if SWBF already announced that it will have Dolby Atmos for PC only, Im hoping us PC guys get something to enjoy the game even further.
  
 Lets hope though
  
 EDIT 2: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/1629745-atmos-htpcs-3.html
  
 this should give us more of an understanding about how Dolby probably works with A/V systems.
  
 EDIT 3: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/mobile.html
  
 Well apparently this shows us some Dolby Atmos sound?
  
 Not sure honestly or just marketing. Either way, if it takes off properly, Dolby Headphone would be old age tech when this comes out.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Rudy that was my point about Atmos for mobile. Astro and Turtle Beach might just drop Dolby headphones and replace it with (lets just call it) Atmos Headphones. Trust me, Ive been doing my homework on Atmos. Its amazing in the theaters and I thought about upgrading at home but a small brooklyn apt isn't the right environment. : )  It might just not seem like i know what Im talking about but I think I do?  
  
 A few weeks ago I posted on AVS forum about PS4 and Xbox One outputting Atmos games but one member mentioned that
 the problem is Atmos is an extension of Dolby TrueHD. PS4 and Xbox One can't output Dolby TrueHD audio in game.
 The systems can only output LPCM in game. I believe thats why Battlefront Atmos is only PC for now.
 I guess a firmware update could support the new audio format? 
  
 And you know about the new DTS:X! Don get me started! : ) 
  
 http://www.cnet.com/news/dtsx-takes-on-dolby-atmos/
  
 Anyway I think its an exciting time in audio.


----------



## rudyae86

I mean, when you put it that way, then yes, you do know what is going on then lol. Its just that the last post didnt sound like you knew about how it works and talked about how Astro should make a limited edition gear and stuff like that lol.

But I know how Atmos sounds in Theaters and its awesome!


----------



## Evshrug

Hey Garamond Oblique,
(Kidding about your name, actually I think it's awesome)

So it seems you've looked into Dolby Atmos, DTS: X, and AMD's TrueAudio. Did you also check out OpenAL and Aureal3D like Nameless mentioned? I also agree that the audio industry is on the cusp of cool newness, with the sensations of dimensionality and position.

Yes, the consoles could take 3-D coordinates and process/mix it for any number of speakers arranged at any position, and then use some equations to calculate what each speaker would sound like when it reaches your two ears (if Atmos Headphone was a thing it would do that 2-step process, 3D coordinate --> which speaker channel ---> reprocess for headphones). However, ideally for games and "live" directional material, you would remove the concept of "a roomful of speakers" and just take the two steps of X, Y, Z coordinate ---> process for headphones what that position would sound like at the moment it would reach your ears. Atmos is still focused on creating a multi-speaker theater setup, that's the difference. Xbox One has it's "sphere" processor dedicated to audio, Playstation 4 is using AMD's TrueAudio chip, hopefully software/firmware updates take into account headphone users at a system level... But I agree with Nameless, we probably won't see such things on a system level till Occulus/Morpheus/HoloLens become real hardware available for consumers.


----------



## akatsuki

So subjectively the Sony Silver adapter seems to work okay. No idea how 3d it is compared to other solutions out there. Is there anyone that can do a comparison? Should I just watch a movie with 3D positional cues on my PS4 to evaluate compared to my surround system...
  
 I want to write a review but without a benchmark VSS to compare against, it is difficult. And for $30, this would by far be the best deal for a VSS solution for PS4.


----------



## Yethal

akatsuki said:


> So subjectively the Sony Silver adapter seems to work okay. No idea how 3d it is compared to other solutions out there. Is there anyone that can do a comparison? Should I just watch a movie with 3D positional cues on my PS4 to evaluate compared to my surround system...
> 
> I want to write a review but without a benchmark VSS to compare against, it is difficult. And for $30, this would by far be the best deal for a VSS solution for PS4.


 
 PS4 can't do multi-channel over USB so what You're hearing is faux-surround generated from a regular stereo signal.


----------



## Helvetica bold

What is the Sony silver adapter are you talking, sounds interesting!!
Oh never mind , you must be taking about Sonys silver headset, duh!


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> What is the Sony silver adapter are you talking, sounds interesting!!


 
 http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-Silver-Wired-Stereo-Headset-4/dp/B00NE5D4SS
  
 This
  
 Nice username btw


----------



## inseconds99

Was going to order those M50x pads but I dunno what the benefit is other then wasting 20 bucks. I guess they might be slightly more comfortable then the faux leather ones.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

rudyae86 said:


> Well it really depends how you want to have your set up. More than likely, you wont need that Astro Mix Amp for PC since there are better options for PC in terms of sound cards. Im sure you want to use the Vali as well? Asus DG does Dolby Headphone, you can purchase an optical Modi and connect it through SPDIF, and then your Vali to the Modi. By doing it this way, you dont double amp and have a better DAC as well. Im sure the sound would improve very well.




Just seen your reply. I've getting the Asus MAXIMUS VII HERO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard in my PC build and was told it has a sound card built into it. I no nothing about PCs could you possibly link the things I need to get ? or if I plug mixamp>vali>q701 into motherboard will I get good sound quality just like I get now on console ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Your onboard solution has better sound quality than the Mixamp + it has an amp built in. Onboard audio really improved over the years. 
 Asus/Realtek use their own HRTF solution which you can customize over Sonic Soundstage and Sonic Studio. What I've tested so far it's better than Razer but has a very strange way of getting set up. In the windows panel you merely get a 2.0 option with headphones, no 5.1 as we are all used. Yet apparently the driver changes the windows recognition during app load which doesn't always work.
 It's mindboggling. Borderlands for instance works properly, or Guild Wars. No faux stereo to HRTF. Some games only recognize 2.0. It's really stupid. MPC HT recognizes 5.1 output when you check the log. 
  
 Asus builds Xonar Essence cards for god's sake. What are they doing?


----------



## inseconds99

This is my short comparison from the time I owned the Sennheiser HD650, HD700 and HD800 simultaneously for nearly a week.  Sorry for the delay as I promised this a week or so ago, been very busy. This review will be based on 2 categories in order of importance to me (Comfort, Gaming). I will put the pros and cons of each headphone in each of the 2 categories and rate them on a scale from 1 to 5. *Here are a few things consider (disclaimer):* 
  
 ~ All my testing was done through a Sound Blaster X7 USB to PC, Windows Sound at 5.1, and SBX at between 70% and 100%
 ~ I am no way claiming I am an audiophile or any kind of sound professional 
 ~ This is based off personal opinions and I will try to convey my experiences in the best way that I can, forgive me if I use the incorrect terminology to explain sound or experiences within the review.

*HD650*
  
*Comfort* - The HD650's headband and cushions were very comfortable and cool on my head and ears. Also, the earcups were very big and I found that my ears did not touch at all which I have had issues with in the past with the HD700's. The headphone is very light which made for an overall comfortable fit except for 1 glaring issue, *CLAMPING*, at first its not noticeable but then after about 15 or so minutes my jaw would become fatigued and I would need to remove the headphone as I began to feel pain. I don't like to physically modify my headphones but I did in the case of the HD650 and I stretched them to reduce clamping. Unfortunately I stretched too much and the headphone became loose. At this point I knew this was going to become to annoying to deal with and back in the box they went. For people with a smaller head or the patience to correct the clamp these can become comfortable but this review is about headphones right out of the box for my personal use.  *3/5 Comfort*
  
*Gaming* - I found the HD650's to be ok for competitive gaming and good for immersive gaming. Because the HD650 has more bass then the 700 and 800 I feel that they make the games feel more like an interactive action movie. Explosions rumbled and have great texture. The sound-stage is a little more intimate and treble is rolled off leading to a very easy all day listen with no fatigue.
 I find the 650 to be veiled and this quality is not great for competitive play. Because of the smaller sound stage and what I felt a poor rear positional accuracy they just didn't meet the needs of a competitive gamer. They do a much better job then most gaming headsets but there are better and cheaper options out there in the headphone world for competitive play. *3.75**/5 Immersion 3/5 Competitive*
  
*HD700*
  
*Comfort* - The HD700 are very comfortable, they are light, the earpads and headband are super comfy and cool and the headphone does great with adjusting to the contours of your head. I have one small problem, as much I adjusted them to fit me correctly the top tip of my ear would touch ever so faintly inside and cause a tickling sensation that would drive me nuts. Obviously that is a fault of my, apparently, unusually shaped ears lol. For anyone else they would be a dream. I performed the girlfriend test and she rated these as the most comfortable out of the 3 headphones. *4.5/5 Comfort*
  
*Gaming* - The HD700's performed very well for gaming, they performed very well in their competitive and immersive performances. The HD700 has very good bass extension, close to what the HD650 could do but it also has sparkle in the treble which makes gun shots more realistic and sound-stage to be more spacious. The issue I have with the HD700 is the just sound off, I didn't hear it the first time I owned them (having not really owning other high end headphones at the time and not really knowing better). I feel as though the darker sound with that random 6-7k treble peak really caused the headphones to become annoying and fatiguing to game with over time. It almost feels as though the game is at the correct volume then, *BAM*, a loud noise that puts you in pain. I don't feel the same way with the HD800's even though they too have sparkle in the treble, they seem way more balanced and much easier on the ears (once again, my experience). *4/5 Immersion 4/5 Competitive*
  
*HD800*
  
*Comfort* - I would consider the 800's near perfect headphones for someone with a larger head. The cushions are cool, comfortable and not itchy at all. My ears touch nothing in the headphone and they do really get lost on my head when wearing them. But, unfortunately, there is no such thing as perfect. They have one flaw, when my I turn my head left or right or I look up or down at any point the headphone moves significantly on my head. I have them positioned where they would shouldn't fall off but they definitely shift pretty dramatically and it becomes annoying to have to re-position them every time I look down or make a sudden head turn left or right. Don't try to bob your head to hard while listening to music as you might drop your $1500 headphones on the floor. *Edited*
  
*EDIT* -* I was having issues with my right ear cup being very loose on the adjustments, it would actually drop down a notch just hanging on the stand from gravity. Also I noticed that one side of my headphone would go down 10 lines and the other would get stuck at 9. I exchanged my HD800's for a brand new pair which I got today. These issues are no longer present and they adjustments are firm and go down correctly. This brought upon huge comfort changes as the headphone now has the correct amount of clamp and it does not go flying off my head!!! I am ecstatic as I no longer have a comfort issue, apparently my previous pairs adjustment defect also caused my loose comfort issue! The headphones are absolutely the definition of comfort and they have changed my whole experience. I can now fully recommend the HD800 for comfort! 5/5 comfort*
  
*Gaming* - In my opinion, out of these 3 headphones and the many others I own/owned, these are the best overall headphones for gaming. They are more accurate, spacious and precise then any headphone I've owned or had the pleasure of listening to. The bass is punchy when it needs to be without ever sounding like its over-exaggerated or too lite where it becomes missing. Gunshots sound so detailed and precise they actually sound real. While playing games like Battlefield and Call of Duty this realism makes you feel apart of the game. Positional accuracy is top notch including the rear, which the HD650 has issues with. I felt like every detail that the engineers created and intended for you to hear while playing the large conquest battlefield maps was reproduced perfectly by the 800's.   If you are looking for a headphone that can do it all for gaming, sound-stage, positional accuracy, immersion and be comfortable (don't move your head too much) for a long session the HD800 is king. IMO the HD800 stands alone, it is truly the end game headphone (pun intended).  *5/5 Immersion 5/5 Competitive*


----------



## AxelCloris

I may as well add something to the guide, it's been a while since I contributed.
  
 HE1000 kicks ass for gaming.
  
 Whew, that was stressful. Time to retreat to my cave.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I may as well add something to the guide, it's been a while since I contributed.
> 
> HE1000 kicks ass for gaming.
> 
> Whew, that was stressful. Time to retreat to my cave.




Nice! Greatly thoroughed and detailed explanation, I must say. Makes me want to put some effort in, myself...

Witches 3 is such an awesome single player fantasy game to immerse yourself in with headphones. At times, I feel like I'm actually living through the transition period that was Middle Ages to Early Renaissance. Not your usual fetch quest side missions you get from an open world RPG, either. Every quest has it's own story.

Nothing to say about headphones, though, because my lineup is still the same and won't be *changing* anytime soon.


----------



## akatsuki

yethal said:


> PS4 can't do multi-channel over USB so what You're hearing is faux-surround generated from a regular stereo signal.


 

 Ah interesting and not surprising. It will do for now while I contemplate what to use for actual VSS. It annoys me that the MixAmp is apparently crap and costs as much as it does.


----------



## rudyae86

MLE, you should add inseconds99 stuff front page. I think people that give a nice through review should go there as I guess, second opinions or a different point of view? I know space is limited but Im sure you can add it as a spoiler type thing (forgot what its called) and that way people could read those other thoughts, besides the ones you have posted already.


----------



## Hansotek

Glad you're enjoying the HD800 inseconds99. I totally agree that they're endgame cans for comfort and sound.


----------



## akatsuki

So per some Amazon reviews, the 2015 Mixamp Pro is better built than the 2013. Anyone seen a difference?


----------



## rudyae86

akatsuki said:


> So per some Amazon reviews, the 2015 Mixamp Pro is better built than the 2013. Anyone seen a difference?


 

 I have read its quite the opposite. Not sure since I dont own one....well my friends owns a 2013 but have not listened to the 2015.
  
 Edit: you said built not sound better........
  
 I would think they are built the same way, maybe look a little different?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Nice! Greatly thoroughed and detailed explanation, I must say. Makes me want to put some effort in, myself...
> 
> Witches 3 is such an awesome single player fantasy game to immerse yourself in with headphones. At times, I feel like I'm actually living through the transition period that was Middle Ages to Early Renaissance. Not your usual fetch quest side missions you get from an open world RPG, either. Every quest has it's own story.
> 
> Nothing to say about headphones, though, because my lineup is still the same and won't be *changing* anytime soon.


 
  
 ...I don't understand.


----------



## inseconds99

rudyae86 said:


> MLE, you should add inseconds99 stuff front page. I think people that give a nice through review should go there as I guess, second opinions or a different point of view? I know space is limited but Im sure you can add it as a spoiler type thing (forgot what its called) and that way people could read those other thoughts, besides the ones you have posted already.


 
  
  


hansotek said:


> Glad you're enjoying the HD800 @inseconds99. I totally agree that they're endgame cans for comfort and sound.


 
  
 Thanks guys, yea I really do love the 800's now I just need to find a better microphone solution as the Zalman clip on is not cutting it. I need a microphone for my PC and my PS4/Xbox1. All of these are connected through my X7 which does not support chat on the consoles so I have to do a bit of finagling to get them to work. The issue I have is I am in a noisy room with my girlfriend and the living room TV. I am trying to find a mic that does well with blocking out background noise and works with my PC and consoles OR 2 different mics, one USB for PC and 3.5m for the consoles. Anyone have suggestions?


----------



## implodingtreble

inseconds99 said:


> Thanks guys, yea I really do love the 800's now I just need to find a better microphone solution as the Zalman clip on is not cutting it. I need a microphone for my PC and my PS4/Xbox1. All of these are connected through my X7 which does not support chat on the consoles so I have to do a bit of finagling to get them to work. The issue I have is I am in a noisy room with my girlfriend and the living room TV. I am trying to find a mic that does well with blocking out background noise and works with my PC and consoles OR 2 different mics, one USB for PC and 3.5m for the consoles. Anyone have suggestions?


 
 Currently I am using the Blue Snowball Ice condenser mic. It uses USB and works fantastic on the ps4 and ps3. However, I can't attest to background noise cancelation. But it's a fantastic mic either way. I would say even if it doesn't cancel out background noise it is definitely worth the price and one of the best options.


----------



## henhowc

would it be pointless for me to get the fidelio x1/x2 if i was just going to go amp-less and plug it into my ds4 for gaming?


----------



## callizer

anyone owns the ATH-ADG1? How good is the mic? Is it worth the price jump from AD700x?


----------



## Clean6eR

Hi,
  
 i have the adg-1 headset, but sadly dont have the ad700, i do have many other headsets and phones though, like the k701, dt880, hd800 and tons of others.
  
 the mic gets nowere near your mouth so you dont need to worry about pop or breathing on it which is nice but it does give a slightly more open sound, like you are using a desk mic.
  
 it is pretty good though, i prefer ones i can shove right in front of me. i use mic monitoring and like to be able to move the mic where ever i think it sounds best the adg-1 is more of a, "this is where it should be deal with it" approach.
  
 the sound of them is slightly crispier sounding than the k701 that i have, it does have amazing levels of seperation and air and truely do sound like detail monsters. i assume this is like the ad700.
  
 id say the best headsets i have:
  
 open:
  
  
  
 pc360 (warm)
 adg-1 (cold)
 qpad qh the open ones (quite closed sounding, grado style)
  
  
 closed:
  
 mmx 300 (open sounding and GOOD isolation)
 qpad qh the closed ones (also closed sounding but detailed and fun)
 kraken pro (haha very closed and stupidly bassy, just use them for fun!)
 polk 4 shot (absolute suprise! very good isolation and pretty fun sounding, the boom mic is good, kind of magic sounding like the denon dxxxx line of headphones were)


----------



## inseconds99

Just a heads up for my gamers here:

*Massdrop Sound Blaster X7 $299.99*

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-05-29&mode=guest_open&referer=APYT6E


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> Just a heads up for my gamers here:
> 
> *Massdrop Sound Blaster X7 $299.99*
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Active%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20A%20Product%20Announcement%202015-05-29&mode=guest_open&referer=APYT6E


 
  
 Is it possible to use the X7 as a Dolby 5.1 converter DAC only and then run the rear line out to another amp? Or is that Dolby Headphone jack in the front the only way to get the 5.1 signal?


----------



## inseconds99

hansotek said:


> Is it possible to use the X7 as a Dolby 5.1 converter DAC only and then run the rear line out to another amp? Or is that Dolby Headphone jack in the front the only way to get the 5.1 signal?




Not at this point, I believe from what I read they're working on this feature. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> Is it possible to use the X7 as a Dolby 5.1 converter DAC only and then run the rear line out to another amp? Or is that Dolby Headphone jack in the front the only way to get the 5.1 signal?


 
  


inseconds99 said:


> Not at this point, I believe from what I read they're working on this feature. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


 
  
 Last I read the 5.1 DSP was only processed from the headphone out. That may have changed but it's still my understanding.


----------



## Fegefeuer

They gathered feedback from a few of us, did not make any promises


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> Last I read the 5.1 DSP was only processed from the headphone out. That may have changed but it's still my understanding.




Can anyone confirm this as I don't yet have another amp to test it myself? I am still trying to decide between the vali, Asgard, Valhalla and O2 for my hd800 and my future fostex th600/900.


----------



## Yethal

akatsuki said:


> Ah interesting and not surprising. It will do for now while I contemplate what to use for actual VSS. It annoys me that the MixAmp is apparently crap and costs as much as it does.


 
 It's not as bad as people here make it out to be. And it has some useful features (game/chat balance knob, answering calls on smartphone while in-game), just buy a used one


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > Last I read the 5.1 DSP was only processed from the headphone out. That may have changed but it's still my understanding.
> ...


 
  
 No contest there. Get the Valhalla 2 for the HD800. OTL all the way. Or build a Crack/Speedball, if you're up for it. You've already invested in the HD800. Don't hold it back now (no offense to those other amps, this is all about synergy).
  
 You can worry about the Fostex later.
  
 Or you can opt for the Lyr to run both (but you'll need to upgrade the tubes on Lyr to get the best out of it... and that can get quite pricey).


----------



## inseconds99

hansotek said:


> No contest there. Get the Valhalla 2 for the HD800. OTL all the way. Or build a Crack/Speedball, if you're up for it. You've already invested in the HD800. Don't hold it back now (no offense to those other amps, this is all about synergy).
> 
> You can worry about the Fostex later.
> 
> Or you can opt for the Lyr to run both (but you'll need to upgrade the tubes on Lyr to get the best out of it... and that can get quite pricey).


 
 I am trying to purchase the TH600/900 within the next month or 2  though I would assume that it will be quite a bit easier to find an amp for those headphones.


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > No contest there. Get the Valhalla 2 for the HD800. OTL all the way. Or build a Crack/Speedball, if you're up for it. You've already invested in the HD800. Don't hold it back now (no offense to those other amps, this is all about synergy).
> ...


 
  
 I tend to agree. It really depends on what you want out of them, since those phones have extremely different needs and both scale up to infinity. Most of the best options for amping _both_ with a single device are over a grand. I've heard people love the Eddie Current Four45 with both phones... if you're willing to drop $4k on it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Long time since I've posted on this thread. Looking back through the last few pages I see a few familiar names (three counts as a few right?).
  
 I must admit, I'm not looking to do a load of research as last time I developed option paralasis. I'd appreciate it if someone that is up to date on the current scene could throw a suggestion or two my way.
  
 I'm currently using AKG 240mk ii's, a Modmic 4.0 and a a Mixamp Pro for my PS4. I'm not sure if it has been discussed or not but the Mixamp has issues with the mic output. I've since found out there is a solution in the form of using a PS4 chat cable to output from the port on the Mixamp designed for the XBOX 360 chat cable to connect to the PS4 controller. There is a problem however. When the USB cable is connected to the controller it creates noise (fairly loud and noticeable). I personally prefer to keep my controller plugged in (and if given the choice would buy wired controllers), so for me this is a problem.
  
 The whole idea of using headphones with a separate mic of some description has become more trouble than it is worth for me. I must admit that I am reluctant to read back through the thread to find out if there is anything on the horizon to change my mind (such as a new version of the Mixamp or an alternative from another company).
  
 Basically, I think I'm going to go for a dedicated headset. My main concerns are sound and build quality. Sound leakage and noise cancelling are of no concern and to be quite honest, I personally prefer the idea of open back headphones.
  
 Unless there is a promising alternative to the Mixamp on the horizon that will make me reconsider, I'd love to hear your suggestions for a headset. I know from experience that this subject can be... well, subjective. I would however appreciate some suggestions on what you'd buy if it were your money in my position.
  
 Just for reference:
  
 PC Sound card: Sound Blaster Omni
 Relevant consoles: PS3 and PS4
 Headphone amp: Mixamp Pro (latest version)
  
 PS:For a while I was considering getting a decent headphone amp and set of cans. Problem was 1) I started thinking that a decent headphone amp and set of cans deserves a decent DAC. 2) Console gaming would have to be double amped with the headphones I was looking at, which I didn't like the idea of. 3) I was a danger to my wallet everytime I browsed the web, so I had to step away for a while.


----------



## fullmoon280

henhowc said:


> would it be pointless for me to get the fidelio x1/x2 if i was just going to go amp-less and plug it into my ds4 for gaming?


 
 im curious about this myself though i myself would be using the astro mixamp to go with it


----------



## Hansotek

fullmoon280 said:


> henhowc said:
> 
> 
> > would it be pointless for me to get the fidelio x1/x2 if i was just going to go amp-less and plug it into my ds4 for gaming?
> ...




The Fidelios don't need an amp to sound good. They'll work just fine out of the Mixamp. You will want to get a replacement cable if you get the X1 however... The cable they include with it is absolute gabage. It looks good, but the sound is trash. You can grab a Monoprice cable for $10 or so, which will upgrade the sound considerably. I believe the X2 cable is much better, but you may want to ask someone who owns the X2 to be sure. If you do get an amp, I've found the O2 is a great match with the fidelios. The bass tightens up a bit and the soundstage gets a little more dimensionality. The Micamp works just fine on its own though.


----------



## implodingtreble

What do you ladies and gents feel about connecting this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Surround-Sound-Adapter-W-5-1-Sound-Digital-Optical-I-O-/311367271837?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487eef859d) to the ps4. Having the Turtle beach upgrade (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416ZTVzqCEL.jpg) connect to the first item through the optical out. Then have the Magni 2 connected to the Turtle Beach upgrade kit. And finally having AKG K7XX cans connected to the Magni.

 It seems kind of Frankenstein-ish. But would it work?


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> The whole idea of using headphones with a separate mic of some description has become more trouble than it is worth for me. I must admit that I am reluctant to read back through the thread to find out if there is anything on the horizon to change my mind (such as a new version of the Mixamp or an alternative from another company).
> 
> Unless there is a promising alternative to the Mixamp on the horizon that will make me reconsider, I'd love to hear your suggestions for a headset. I know from experience that this subject can be... well, subjective. I would however appreciate some suggestions on what you'd buy if it were your money in my position.
> 
> ...


 
 Sounds like what You want is the Soundblaster X7


----------



## Clean6eR

hi,
  
 the dac1 will just convert a stereo lpcm optical signal to a line level analogue output.
  
 this means no fancy surround or dolby headphone stuff.
  
 the usb section simply allows a chat channel in and out to show up on the ps4 aswell.
  
 if you plug an amp into the line out all you will get is the game channel in stereo. you can force the ps4 to output chat to that channel aswell so you could hear chat on the amp too but you wont get any mic monitor and this setup can be achieved using any optical dac, of which will probably be much higher quality
  
 i dont have the 5.1 box but im assuming you would want to hook the usb up to it and the dac1 so you can plug a mic into it? id assume this would work but that box will only be useful if you want to hook the 5.1 up to something, it wont mix them into a dolby headphone type deal.
  
 what do you want from the ps4?
  
   just a clean stereo game and voice (not caring about voice monitoring or virtual surround)
  
            for this i hook up my hdvd800, hd800 and a yeti. it sounds VERY good but i miss not beign able to monitor my voice, the control over the chat channel and the virtual surround sound
  
   or surround sound and chat and voice monitor at all the bells and whistles (they dont provide a line level signal)
  
            I found no uber high quality solution, i just use a xp seven amp thingy hooked up to some lower sensitvity headsets (to remove the persistent tape sound these cheaper amps/processors seem to generate) like the mmx 300, polk 4shot, etheir of the two shennhiser pc 350/360's. this gave me all of the game stuff i wanted. i also have a mixamp (not bad, dont like low voice monitor),  creative recon 3d (favroite 3d sound but no mic monitor at all!), tritton ax amp(old and new, best mic/soundcard of all and great surround, dont like the cables plus i use this on pc gaming and ps4 so this amp has fewer inputs that the xp seven, might get a optical switch box for it)
  
  
 i have hooked all the above processors up to various amps like the schiit cheapy one, lehmann black cube linear and the hdvd800, i found that this starts to really show how poor they all sound!  i mean you can tell the mixamp cuts out chat when it falls below a certain threshold (actually pretty good but sounds damn annoying after a time)
  
  
 hope this helps in some way.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Sounds like what You want is the Soundblaster X7


 

 hi,
  
 sorry i have not read the whole thread (2000+ pages!) do you have an x7?
  
 do you have a ps4?
  
 does it apply the cmss3d or whatever they call it to the ps4?
  
 does the usb work on the ps4 for voice chat?
  
 does it give two seperate channels to control game, voice levels? (doesnt look like it externally, i keep thinking about ps4 usage)
  
 are the opamps rollable (have 2 muses01 and and 2 muses02 not up to much)
  
 can it output virtual surround on its line out?


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> hi,
> 
> sorry i have not read the whole thread (2000+ pages!) do you have an x7?
> 
> ...


 
 I do
 I do
 It does, it's called SBX now
 It does not unfortunately, You'd have to use one of many workarounds we have developed so far
 It can if You use one the aforementioned workarounds for chat
 They are
 It cannot yet, but we're bugging Creative to add such functionality in the future, however some people here have been double amping it through one of the headphone outs with good results.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> I do
> I do
> It does, it's called SBX now
> It does not unfortunately, You'd have to use one of many workarounds we have developed so far
> ...


 
  
 thank you for taking the time to answer!
  
 aw thats a shame, not sure i can leave mic monitor behind as i like to use closed headsets so i dont annoy my wife, shouting i think will annoy her more than using my open headphones!
  
 i have a zxr soundcard and also the blaster 3d external thingy both have the best virtual simulation i find but none have mic monitor   (the omni does!)
  
 anyone know of any processors that work on ps4 with mic monitor? (i have mixamp, tritton ax amp, xp seven processor)


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> thank you for taking the time to answer!
> 
> aw thats a shame, not sure i can leave mic monitor behind as i like to use closed headsets so i dont annoy my wife, shouting i think will annoy her more than using my open headphones!
> 
> ...


 
 Mixamp can have it if You plug a 3.5mm cable from daisy chain port to mp3 port


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Mixamp can have it if You plug a 3.5mm cable from daisy chain port to mp3 port


 

 :O
  
 it has a montior out type port but that outputs pretty much everything, but the daisy chaining thingy only outputs your voice? so its at a fixed volume?
  
 the xp seven processor is king for features but its sound quality is somewhat lacking, i like that i can hook my pc,ps4 and dreamcast all at once to it with one usb switchbox. i use usb for pc 5.1 and chat, then the ps4 is optical and usb for chat via the switchbox, but i also hook a dreamcast up via the mp3 input, pretty tidy and easy to manage
  
 the other great thing is the voice monitor has its own volume control! i tend to max it out then use the master volume to suit. but its great having almost TOTAL control over all settings. i just cant get over how poor the usb chat section is. does the job but poorly, the creative is MUCH better and the tritton is also brilliant for this part. the down point to them both is switch from one machine to the next.
  
 the creative one has no mic monitor at all so its right off the list but by far has best surround which is a shame
  
 the tritton is really good all around but i need a usb and optical switch box plus i have to use the omni to get ddl out of the pc so it becomes alot of cables but sounds good
  
 the xp seven is all sorted but probably sounds the lowest quality, yet by a mile has the best features and control
  
 now the mix amp... i used to find the monitor too low to deem useful (i used to slap it almost all the way to the chat then lower the chat volume on the console and ram the main volume up so my voice was balanced with the chat and game, this increased the noise floor alot and i could hear the chat cutting in and out. if this cable trick raises my voice like the tritton one id be really rather happy with it. id still need to do the sill optical and usb switch box plus omni soundcard which is a pain
  
  
  
 not sure if its worth it to be honest, on the pc encoding 5.1 to ddl then sending that to the processor to be decoded to dolby headphone does introduce a noticable delay, the xp seven also delays getting the 5.1 and creating the headphone effect but its not as delayed.
  
 soooo many options, none perfect 
  
 thanks for the mixamp suggestion though thats kinda cool.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Sounds like what You want is the Soundblaster X7


 

 Thanks but I don't think it's for me. I'd be paying a lot for many things I don't need (such as the 100-watt amplifier) and I don't want to be using work-arounds for my mic. That and I think I'm going to try something other than Sound Blaster for my next sound card as I've had a couple of annoyances with the Omni.
  
 I'm toying with the idea of getting Turtle Beach XP Sevens. Most of the complaints I've seen about them are to do with the durability of the headset itself (and their customer service). In theory though, I should be able to use my existing headphone and mic setup with it, as the headset connects to the control box with a 4-pole connector (same way I'm connected to the Mixamp currently). And who knows, maybe I'll even like the headset.


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> :O
> 
> it has a montior out type port but that outputs pretty much everything, but the daisy chaining thingy only outputs your voice? so its at a fixed volume?


 
 daisy chain port doubles as a mic out port so it only outputs voice. As for Your other problems with current audio setup, the X7 supports 5.1 PCM sound on PC with virtual surround so no need for additional devices hooked to it.


----------



## Clean6eR

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks but I don't think it's for me. I'd be paying a lot for many things I don't need (such as the 100-watt amplifier) and I don't want to be using work-arounds for my mic. That and I think I'm going to try something other than Sound Blaster for my next sound card as I've had a couple of annoyances with the Omni.
> 
> I'm toying with the idea of getting Turtle Beach XP Sevens. Most of the complaints I've seen about them are to do with the durability of the headset itself (and their customer service). In theory though, I should be able to use my existing headphone and mic setup with it, as the headset connects to the control box with a 4-pole connector (same way I'm connected to the Mixamp currently). And who knows, maybe I'll even like the headset.


 

 hi,
  
 i have the xp7 setup, the headset that came with it broke, the connection to the left speaker broke, i resoldered it but its true that the headset itself is a little fragile. the sound on them was ok. they do work with 4pole headsets and also the mic and headphone type headsets too if you buy a cheap 4 pole to two 3.5mm cables. if pairing the processor with another headset the more sensitive the headset the more you will pick up a little hiss that remains the same at all volumes. (i have used a usb power conditioner and still found the hiss)
  
 the hiss is not noticale while gaming on pretty much any headset but with ones like polk 4shot,mmx 300, adg-1 i couldnt really pick up the hiss at all even when nothing is playing.
  
 i find the xp7 setup the best feature wise and pretty much un parelled for my uses. sound quality wise...
  
 well to be honest i wouldnt use this setup for music listening.
  
 (having just mentioned the polk 4shot, i just relised they give a boom mic away with them now as the in built mic sucks yet the boom mic is designed to be placed on the left earcup but the headset only allows them in the right ear cup. this means the pick up holes are away from your mouth, which reduces breathing sounds but also reduces the volume of you! odd seems like they just slapped something togther to get around the complaints they were getting. yet i still really like them!)
  
  
 anyone know of a 2.5mm boom mic to 3.5mm. (i have the custom one gear one, the v moda boom pro, and the 4shot one but their all 3.5mm ones. im looking to get some CAL!2's and wana put a boom mic on them)


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Thanks for the info  I've not really been keeping up with everything that's been going on in the headset/headphone scene, so I have a bit of research to do again. The XP Seven is looking like a strong contender at the moment. I looked at the HyperX Cloud 2 initially as people have been raving about it but the virtual surround doesn't work on consoles. My options are pretty limited.
  
 I'm pretty peeved with Astro. Their forums have plenty of complaints about the mic issue but they seem to be downplaying it and not doing a lot to try and find a solution. When I ordered from them they charged me VAT despite the fact that where I live we don't pay VAT. Also when I contacted support to enquire if the stream out port was line level and whether the signal output was virtual surround (I thought it may be a more elegant solution than double amping in case I bought a harder to drive set of cans in future) they just wouldn't give me a straight answer and kept trying to sell me an A40 headset. I should have known they'd be like that as before ordering the Mixamp I told them that I had multiple systems and did not want to be constantly unplugging and plugging in cables. I told them that I already had a couple of optical to coax cables at home and just wanted to know if they'd work. They kept dodging the question and tried to get me to buy their cables.


----------



## Clean6eR

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks for the info  I've not really been keeping up with everything that's been going on in the headset/headphone scene, so I have a bit of research to do again. The XP Seven is looking like a strong contender at the moment. I looked at the HyperX Cloud 2 initially as people have been raving about it but the virtual surround doesn't work on consoles. My options are pretty limited.
> 
> I'm pretty peeved with Astro. Their forums have plenty of complaints about the mic issue but they seem to be downplaying it and not doing a lot to try and find a solution. When I ordered from them they charged me VAT despite the fact that where I live we don't pay VAT. Also when I contacted support to enquire if the stream out port was line level and whether the signal output was virtual surround (I thought it may be a more elegant solution than double amping in case I bought a harder to drive set of cans in future) they just wouldn't give me a straight answer and kept trying to sell me an A40 headset. I should have known they'd be like that as before ordering the Mixamp I told them that I had multiple systems and did not want to be constantly unplugging and plugging in cables. I told them that I already had a couple of optical to coax cables at home and just wanted to know if they'd work. They kept dodging the question and tried to get me to buy their cables.


 
  
 i have the hyperx cloud 2, they are VERY good. they have a more upfront sound than some others but amazing levels of detail in a slap in your face kind of way, they are not soundstage kings, the bass snaps along with real weight and punch. remind me ALOT of my superlux headphones. the sound card i dont use, it didnt work on the ps4 and i didnt care for the 7.1 on windows ethier but i have many others to choose from. they are sensitive enough to pick up the hiss from the xp7 amp thingy.
  
 astro, i have a a40 and a50 setup, the a50 has no line out at all, the a40 has one which has your voice coming out loud and clear, same level as the others chat which was nice but sadly i dont remeber a convincing virtual surround coming out of it to my BCL with k701's (but i used this setup a LONG time ago and was only searching for a loud mic monitor) i can hook it all up again and see if it does output as virtual surround, im pretty sure it was line level though. (didnt crack a multimeter out) maybe someone here already knows the answer and will save me hooking aload of stuff up and save you the wait!
  
 i had good exerences with astro, i guess it depends on the indiviual you get put through to (i asked if the 2015 mixamp was better than my last gen one and was told not to buy it as its the same thing with a different usb connector on it, i respected that)
  
 if you dont want to keep unplugging stuff etc the xp7 has the most options as i use mine with one usb switch box and can use pc ps4 and a dreamcast (aux) all hooked up at the same time!
  
 quality sound wise the tritton ax setup is one of the best but only one usb in and one optical in, its limited unless you get splitters etc.
  
 oh i also have the elite 800 and 500p to try the dtsx headphone, the 500p would be my dream wireless ps4 only setup but it just lacks too much detail, (like rain on bf4 menu screen can be hardly heared) then the elite 800 very nice, i prefer the dtsx over all except the creative one but it has no boom mic hence the monitor is patchy at best and has a present hiss which drives me INSAINE on wireless headsets.
  
 duno if anyone has any skullkandy headsets, their aviators were ok, if anyone does (wireless or wired) do they offer voice monitoring?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

clean6er said:


> astro, i have a a40 and a50 setup, the a50 has no line out at all, the a40 has one which has your voice coming out loud and clear, same level as the others chat which was nice but sadly i dont remeber a convincing virtual surround coming out of it to my BCL with k701's (but i used this setup a LONG time ago and was only searching for a loud mic monitor) i can hook it all up again and see if it does output as virtual surround, im pretty sure it was line level though. (didnt crack a multimeter out) maybe someone here already knows the answer and will save me hooking aload of stuff up and save you the wait!
> i had good exerences with astro, i guess it depends on the indiviual you get put through to (i asked if the 2015 mixamp was better than my last gen one and was told not to buy it as its the same thing with a different usb connector on it, i respected that)


 
 I already know the answer and it is no, the signal that goes out the stream port is not virtual surround.
  
 I think any company can have good and bad customer support reps. Guess I got unlucky (twice, once with the tech support and the second time about the VAT).
  
 I appreciate the info you've given me.


----------



## akatsuki

I've read every mention of the Creative X7 and am completely unsure how it works with a console. And the two reviews linked don't spend a ton of time on positional accuracy or console workarounds for chat.
  
 My thought is:
  
 Game audio: Playstation - Toslink optical - X7 - Toslink optical - receiver
 Chat audio: Playstation - USB Sony Silver headphone adapter - X7
  
 Mix those two together to get chat and surround game audio in the same place. Seems like an inexpensive and easy solution to the chat audio issue.
  
 2 QUESTIONS:
 (1) Will this work?
 (2) Is there an actual gaming review of the X7's surround processing and how well it positions with something like Fidelio X2s?


----------



## Yethal

akatsuki said:


> I've read every mention of the Creative X7 and am completely unsure how it works with a console. And the two reviews linked don't spend a ton of time on positional accuracy or console workarounds for chat.
> 
> My thought is:
> 
> ...


 
 Or go even cheaper and use something like Syba usb soundcard, as for the questions
  
 (1) Yes it will, syba headphone output > 3.5mm to rca cable (supplied with x7) > rca line in on the x7, syba microphone input > microphone
 (2) I bielieve Evshrug wrote one, it's linked in the first post on this thread


----------



## kazsud

So I'm anxious to try a mixamp. It will be ps4 optical to mixamp to Hdva600 to hd800s.

My question has anyone here tried the above mentioned setup w/ any amp?


----------



## akatsuki

yethal said:


> Or go even cheaper and use something like Syba usb soundcard, as for the questions
> 
> (1) Yes it will, syba headphone output > 3.5mm to rca cable (supplied with x7) > rca line in on the x7, syba microphone input > microphone
> (2) I bielieve Evshrug wrote one, it's linked in the first post on this thread


 

 Ha, I missed the one paragraph about picking out sounds on his twitch stream.
  
 I already have the silver headset adapter, so will use that anyway.
  
 The massdrop deal seems pretty good, but I wish it was the LE.


----------



## Clean6eR

kazsud said:


> So I'm anxious to try a mixamp. It will be ps4 optical to mixamp to Hdva600 to hd800s.
> 
> My question has anyone here tried the above mentioned setup w/ any amp?


 

 hi,
  
 the optical surroud processors i have are:
  
 turrtle beach dss2
  
 turtle beach xp seven thingy
  
 astro mixamp (2013 edition? the one before the latest one)
  
 creative sound blaster recon3d
  
 tritton ax processor thingy (the original model and the latest model)
  
 a yamaha home theatre system with that silent cinema thingy
  
  
  
 i also have the hd800 and a hdvd800 (same amp section and headphones)
  
 since getting the hd setup i havent hooked the processors up to them as i didnt like the idea of double amping (none of the able provide a line level output that is processed) i used a zxr sound card's optical out that had the surround effect sent along it to the optical in on that setup and its sounded ok. i mean i figured an processed signal sent via optical to the hdvd800 should be nearing as good as i can get virtual surround. and well it is, but not mindblowingly better. it seems these processors, console or pc are all a little naff. but then again they are not created to sound perfectly balanced etc, its all down to positional accuracy and for me, as little background hiss as possible.
  
 the optical from pc was silent whch was great! but this wont help for ps4 audio.
  
 i will hook them up to my hd setup shortly and update this as i do, to let you know about noise level and postioanl accuracy, if you want to know about extra features like mic monitor or mic recording quality on the ps4 let me know.
  
  
  
*yahmaha reciver:*
  
 from the list i have above the yamaha silet cinema does not process dts streams only dolby like the other boxes but does a pretty good job, the headphone out of it is a little warm sounding when i used it last on my k701 (a while ago) and also seemed to lack detail slightly. i dont use it as its massive and it doesnt provide line level processed output, so it would be a large hulking mess to use it and i didnt notice an amazing performance from it
  
*Tritton ax:*
  
 well i quite like these, almost just a plug and play system, the noise floor increases as the volume does, not sure how much is their at a near line level but ill update when i hook it up. i like the 3d positioning on these and consider them a text book dolby headphone example (plus i love the mic montior and chat channel on these, very un processed)
  
*Astro mixamp*
  
 sound quality on par with the tritton, simular surround same noise issue when increaing the noise increases, ill update about this as a line level source. the chat channel on this cuts out when you dont talk so silent really is silent, when you start talking it has a fade in and fade out applied very quickly it lets you focus on the game sound over chat sound, not sure i like the way it does this, the tritton doesnt but boths sound quality on the chat when running is about on par. (also Yethal told me to loop the daisy chain port and now i can have voice monitoring on it! this was awsome and leaves the mixamp on my stack of good features processors (mixamp,tritton, and xp7)
  
*XP seven*
  
 as you are going ps4 only the xp7 misses out on its best feature which is its number of features! (i mean inputs really) their is a constant noise on this system but i will update as to whetier it comes across on the hd setup. the number of customisiation on this is insiane, you can change the surround angles etc, when i spent an age getting it all as i wanted i then a-b tested it against the tritton and astro and found i actually like it least. the chat channel is VERY processed sounding. by far the least organic of all i have but very functional and the different volume controls on this thing just make you a total master of everything! for me this is the most feature packed and easiest to actually game with but pure sound quality its the bottom of my top 3
  
*dss2*
  
 crap, not very good 3d, lots of noise and couldnt be bothered to hook a usb sound card to it, i mean it has a constant noise and it gets a second noise that increases with volume!? the 3d is just not right, its like someone shot the man in the middle!
  
*recon3d:*
  
 really quite good, you need a pc to set it up well, but the 3d on this i would say is my favroite ( i prefer it to the dtsx on the elite 800s too which is a close second favroite for surround tech) the noise level is low the whole way, the chat is good, like the tritton (doesnt kill quite sounds unless you tell it to on the software in windows so i can choose what i want) the only thing i consider a game ender for this for me is the mic monitor, it doesnt have one.  if you dont like mic monitor id consider this probably the best of them
  
 their are youtube videos of the different surround tech that you can listen to, this will help pick a system.
  
 all of these i have tried using their own hp out terminals, i will try them on the hdvd800 and ill level them and update how they sound on the hd800.
  
 what mic you planning on using? i got a yeti and the playsation camera which i use with them but i hate room type mics for gaming.
  
 sorry for spelling and punctuation errors too lazy to fix them...


----------



## Yethal

akatsuki said:


> Ha, I missed the one paragraph about picking out sounds on his twitch stream.
> 
> I already have the silver headset adapter, so will use that anyway.
> 
> The massdrop deal seems pretty good, but I wish it was the LE.


 
 Aside from the color the only real difference between standard and Limited Edition is 1 ohm lower output impedance which only affects in ear monitors. Beefier power supply can be bought separately from Creative.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Just wondering, has anyone has heard any rumours about any new surround processor on the horizon?
  
 In terms of stand alone units there is the DSS2 and the Mixamp Pro. As far as I can tell the Recon3D USB is no longer being produced, the DSS2 has been out for what seems like a very long time and the mic issue with the Mixamp is pretty well known about. It just feels to me like something is due.
  
 I'm actually kind of surprised that aside from AV receivers there are no processors that are taking their input from HDMI. In fact, just thinking about it, I know quite a lot of people have the HDMI going straight into their TV and then have optical outputting to their speaker systems. There are probably relatively few people actually getting the benefit of the high quality audio available.
  
 It just seems odd to me that no companies are striving to get those higher numbers on their spec sheets, because we all know companies love to boast about specs, even in cases where it doesn't actually have any real world benefit (I'm not saying that is the case here, but it is a common market practice).


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> Just wondering, has anyone has heard any rumours about any new surround processor on the horizon?
> 
> In terms of stand alone units there is the DSS2 and the Mixamp Pro. As far as I can tell the Recon3D USB is no longer being produced, the DSS2 has been out for what seems like a very long time and the mic issue with the Mixamp is pretty well known about. It just feels to me like something is due.
> 
> ...


 
 Turtle Beach has their own TAC in the making,
  
 as far as the processors go there is still Tritton AX720+ processor
  
 Smyth Realizer uses HDMI for it's processing
  
 As for the las paragraph, I'm guessing that switching over from optical to HDMI would involve a lot of R&D costs, and since nobody (except people here) complains there is little to no incentive among audio companies to make such a processor.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I didn't think Tritton sold their processors separately. The Smyth realiser from memory is OTT even for most audiophiles. I wasn't aware that TB had something in the works. I'll have to do some investigating.
  
 You're probably right with your observations on my last paragraph. It would be nice to see someone push things forward a bit though.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> I didn't think Tritton sold their processors separately. The Smyth realiser from memory is OTT even for most audiophiles. I wasn't aware that TB had something in the works. I'll have to do some investigating.
> 
> You're probably right with your observations on my last paragraph. It would be nice to see someone push things forward a bit though.


 
 They do
 http://store.madcatz.com/brands/tritton-accessories/TRITTON-PRO-5-1-Headset-Decoder-Box.html
  
 As for the Realizer, if it wasn't so big and didn't cost almost 3K $ it would be a really viable choice


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> They do
> http://store.madcatz.com/brands/tritton-accessories/TRITTON-PRO-5-1-Headset-Decoder-Box.html


 

 I was not aware of this. Another thing for me to investigate. I have to go now, so won't be able to reply. Thanks for the info


----------



## kazsud

Thanks for your reply. I'm hoping the noise floor issue won't be too bad.

I have hooked the ps4 to my setup but it's way to bright sounding. Also the pwd mkii doesn't do Dolby or dts. 
As far as a mic I haven't given it any thought yet because I want to get surround sound out of the way first. 

If I can't get anything working with my hd800 I'll probably just get the a40/mixamp.


----------



## Clean6eR

kazsud said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'm hoping the noise floor issue won't be too bad.
> 
> I have hooked the ps4 to my setup but it's way to bright sounding. Also the pwd mkii doesn't do Dolby or dts.
> As far as a mic I haven't given it any thought yet because I want to get surround sound out of the way first.
> ...


 
 hi,
  
 just played a few rounds of cod with the hdvd800 and hd800 dual amped off the astro mixamp and then a few rounds using the mmx 300 off the mixamp on its own.
  
 the amp has a slight buzz come over with it on the hd setup. i find it sounds best with the mixamp maxed out and slapped 100% to game, it gives gunshots a proper smack on the hd800's. its possible to turn the chat mix knob just so that it removes the buzz but then a lot of the drama comes out of the game which i prefer. the buzz is not enough to take you out of the game, i was rather impressed
  
 then i thought ill slap the mmx300 on for a round with just the mixamp. the buzz is louder depending on volume level (i cant turn it up very much before it becomes too much) i oddly prefer the mmx300 for gaming! they just have more bass and yet still sound airy, i love having closed headphones when gaming, its a preference thing.
  
 i didnt feel a massive improvement using the hdvd800 as an amp, i should proberly compare the mmx300 on the amp and not on the amp to get a better appreciation.
  
 i think youd be happy with a mixamp for its price
  
 im starting to eye up the beyerdynamic headzone amp thingy but then id have to work out how to get a mic monitor etc.


----------



## Clean6eR

OK so i just played a bit more with the mmx 300 and hd800's on the hdvd800 and also via the mixamp on its own (with the mmx 300 only as my hd800 are balanced)
  
 yea the double amping is better than just the mixamp on its own, it has more control in the lower frequency's. in fact i think for a budget setup hooking a mixamp to a schiit magni (or modi the amp one!) and some adg-1's would be pretty awesome
  
 I'm going to keep my setup hooked up as is.
  
 i have adg-1 in one output of the hdvd800, the mmx 300 in the other (one if the wife's about and i wanna game and one if shes out of the country and i want to game)
  
 the hd800 hooked up to balanced output for best single player when wife's away and my d7100 for best single player when shes here.
  
 i have the daisy chain ports hooked together if i game against others to monitor my voice and hook the pc (zxr) with that cmss3d thingy via its aux in for pc gaming with voice chat etc.
  
 pretty happy with it.
  
 can't wait for the next amp thingy from turtle beach! (the TAC, i heard about it on their posts but not seen anything on it for quite a while)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro and Shure SRH1540 reviews have been posted on the first page, with the gaming scores, etc. Sorry for the wait.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Just looked for the Tritton Pro decoder. Doesn't seem to be available in the UK, and the fact that there are only nine left in stock on their own store page I'm thinking it is has possibly been discontinued and they are selling the remaining stock.
  
 The only info I've been able to find about the Turtle Beach TAC is from last year. Hopefully they haven't ditched development as it was sounding pretty interesting. I may wait until after E3 this year to make any decisions, just in case anything interesting comes up.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

napalmhardcore said:


> Just looked for the Tritton Pro decoder. Doesn't seem to be available in the UK, and the fact that there are only nine left in stock on their own store page I'm thinking it is has possibly been discontinued and they are selling the remaining stock.
> 
> The only info I've been able to find about the Turtle Beach TAC is from last year. Hopefully they haven't ditched development as it was sounding pretty interesting. I may wait until after E3 this year to make any decisions, just in case anything interesting comes up.


 
 Edit: This was supposed to be an edit. Most likely cause? Stupidity.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Guys, the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro and Shure SRH1540 reviews have been posted on the first page, with the gaming scores, etc. Sorry for the wait.


 
 I see you didnt have a pair of velour pads to try on the Beyer COPs. I will probably buy a pair once summer hits because these pleather pads get hot rather quickly....unless you live in Alaska and need that extra heat lol
  
 You review is pretty spot on. I keep the slider at 2 for some oomph in the low range. I mainly use this for more immersion while staying quiet at night. Main games I would use them on is Racing games or sims, Flight or Tank games like War Thunder, RTS games like Company of Heroes....well usually games that dont require to have alot of directional or positional accuracy though the COPs are no slouch when it comes to FPS games. I play them from time to time with BF4 and that low end sounds nice in position 2. I tried the rest of the positions but position 4 is too much and position 3 makes it sound more boomy but you are already losing much clarity and the mids become more recessed, hence why I stick with position 2 which makes it seem more balanced.
  
 Great Review MLE at headguru


----------



## kazsud

clean6er said:


> OK so i just played a bit more with the mmx 300 and hd800's on the hdvd800 and also via the mixamp on its own (with the mmx 300 only as my hd800 are balanced)
> 
> yea the double amping is better than just the mixamp on its own, it has more control in the lower frequency's. in fact i think for a budget setup hooking a mixamp to a schiit magni (or modi the amp one!) and some adg-1's would be pretty awesome
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks!
 I went out to pick up breakfast and the local game stop was open so  i put an a40 on the card to try it out. So in the tower (destiny) the directional cues were outstanding but in game mode not so much. I guess I still need to get used to it or pay more attention to it. One thing I noticed right off the bat it that the mixup is not loud enough.... The build quality on both are great. Also when I change eq settings I don't really hear a difference. 
  
 So you have to use the splitter to hear yourself talk?
  
 I haven't tried my hdva600 and hd800 yet. 
  
 Is the a50 a better headphone or is being wireless the only difference?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A40 is better than the A50. You're not at the mercy of a sub par internal amp.

I still recommend the PLYR1 over the A50 if wireless is necessary. Irony being that they're both under the same house (Skullcandy owns Astrogaming), and the A50 is supposed to be better. The PLYR1 is the cheaper one, and I feel to be better sounding.


----------



## kazsud

Wireless maybe but only as another option. Thinking I should try the SOUND BLASTER X7 since it's only $150 mire than what I spent today lol


----------



## AxelCloris

kazsud said:


> Wireless maybe but only as another option. Thinking I should try the SOUND BLASTER X7 since it's only $150 mire than what I spent today lol




The X7 is $300 on Massdrop right now.


----------



## kazsud

axelcloris said:


> The X7 is $300 on Massdrop right now.


 

 Yeah as I was typing I remembered seeing it in their email so $50 more ha!


----------



## inseconds99

So I am in a weird spot right now, currently love my hd800 and x7 for PC gaming for sound but I have some issues with chat function. First, I cannot find a microphone that I am happy with I am currently using the zalman clip on which sounds like crap and has a huge wire. I cannot stand havign multiple cables hanging everywhere, so I am currently on a search for a desktop or usb mic that blocks out background noise and I don't need another wire hanging from my neck. But I cannot seem to find one. This issue becomes worse when using the x7 for console gaming. Between splitters and adapters and cables coming out of the controller I am having an anxiety attack. I might abandon the x7 n hd800 with the consoles and go with a wireless solution and stick with the x7 and hd800 with a usb mic (if I can find one that blocks out background noise) for the PC.

Anyone else having cable messy anxiety trying to use the x7 and chat features at the same time?


----------



## Clean6eR

kazsud said:


> Thanks!
> I went out to pick up breakfast and the local game stop was open so  i put an a40 on the card to try it out. So in the tower (destiny) the directional cues were outstanding but in game mode not so much. I guess I still need to get used to it or pay more attention to it. One thing I noticed right off the bat it that the mixup is not loud enough.... The build quality on both are great. Also when I change eq settings I don't really hear a difference.
> 
> So you have to use the splitter to hear yourself talk?
> ...


 
 hi,
  
 the easiest way to compare is during a game try hitting the dolby button on the device to get a feel for the difference. also i know i may sound condicending and i dont mean to but make sure in the ps4 to set the audio output to optical, dolby encoded. (assuming you have as you said the tower sounded good)
  
 i lost my a40's cable so cant plug them in but on my mmx 300 the volume i find too loud past the 50% mark, the eq settings i tend to not change but it only seems to apply to the game channel not the chat one.
  
 when it come to voice monitoring get a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable and on the front of the device plug it in the left most and right most holes.
  
 i use a splitter on the headphone out port so i can plug the green (headphone side of the splitter)into the line in on the hdvd800 and the mic can still go into my mmx300's mic. then i plug the mmx 300 into the headphone out of the hdvd800
  
 from what i remember the a40 had a 4 pole end so you would need two splitters one for the headset to get to your amp and the mic in on the mixamp and a second splitter for the mixamp to give a mic in and a speaker out for the hdvd800!
  
 odd but will work.
  
 really sorry to hear its quite, i hadn't thought so myself, i would have advised if i had found it oddly quite.


----------



## kazsud

Yeah I followed the setup instructions even though I would of checked settings anyway.


----------



## kazsud

inseconds99 said:


> So I am in a weird spot right now, currently love my hd800 and x7 for PC gaming for sound but I have some issues with chat function. First, I cannot find a microphone that I am happy with I am currently using the zalman clip on which sounds like crap and has a huge wire. I cannot stand havign multiple cables hanging everywhere, so I am currently on a search for a desktop or usb mic that blocks out background noise and I don't need another wire hanging from my neck. But I cannot seem to find one. This issue becomes worse when using the x7 for console gaming. Between splitters and adapters and cables coming out of the controller I am having an anxiety attack. I might abandon the x7 n hd800 with the consoles and go with a wireless solution and stick with the x7 and hd800 with a usb mic (if I can find one that blocks out background noise) for the PC.
> 
> Anyone else having cable messy anxiety trying to use the x7 and chat features at the same time?


 

 Is the x7 bright with the 800s?


----------



## akatsuki

I just went in on the Massdrop.
  
 So is this how the hookup is going to look?


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> So I am in a weird spot right now, currently love my hd800 and x7 for PC gaming for sound but I have some issues with chat function. First, I cannot find a microphone that I am happy with I am currently using the zalman clip on which sounds like crap and has a huge wire. I cannot stand havign multiple cables hanging everywhere, so I am currently on a search for a desktop or usb mic that blocks out background noise and I don't need another wire hanging from my neck. But I cannot seem to find one. This issue becomes worse when using the x7 for console gaming. Between splitters and adapters and cables coming out of the controller I am having an anxiety attack. I might abandon the x7 n hd800 with the consoles and go with a wireless solution and stick with the x7 and hd800 with a usb mic (if I can find one that blocks out background noise) for the PC.
> 
> Anyone else having cable messy anxiety trying to use the x7 and chat features at the same time?


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-Professional-Stereo-Recording-3-5mm-Micphone-Mic-For-Iphone-Mini-Ipad-/121090019213?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c31870f8d
  
 Plug directly into the controller, set input to the controller, chat output to the X7 and voila


----------



## Hansotek

yethal said:


> inseconds99 said:
> 
> 
> > So I am in a weird spot right now, currently love my hd800 and x7 for PC gaming for sound but I have some issues with chat function. First, I cannot find a microphone that I am happy with I am currently using the zalman clip on which sounds like crap and has a huge wire. I cannot stand havign multiple cables hanging everywhere, so I am currently on a search for a desktop or usb mic that blocks out background noise and I don't need another wire hanging from my neck. But I cannot seem to find one. This issue becomes worse when using the x7 for console gaming. Between splitters and adapters and cables coming out of the controller I am having an anxiety attack. I might abandon the x7 n hd800 with the consoles and go with a wireless solution and stick with the x7 and hd800 with a usb mic (if I can find one that blocks out background noise) for the PC.
> ...


 
  
 This same setup would work with the Mixamp & PS4, right? Can you use any old lav mic plugged in to the controller?


----------



## Yethal

hansotek said:


> This same setup would work with the Mixamp & PS4, right? Can you use any old lav mic plugged in to the controller?


 
 It's easier with the mixamp, use either USb connection or PS4 chat cable between the ds4 and the controller port


----------



## xxlbeerz

I currently own the Sennheiser PC 360's, but after several years, I am no longer a competitive FPS gamer on PC.  Been playing more casual games, MOBA's, MKX on PS4, and listening to a lot more music.  I bought a headphone amp, but there's just no booms to be had with the PC360's.
  
 I am thinking that the Beyerdynamics DT series will give me a lot more fun sound for my current use, but I still need a headset.  However, the Beyerdynamics are not listed as being compatible with the V-Moda Boom Mic.  Is there an issue with it?


----------



## Yethal

xxlbeerz said:


> I currently own the Sennheiser PC 360's, but after several years, I am no longer a competitive FPS gamer on PC.  Been playing more casual games, MOBA's, MKX on PS4, and listening to a lot more music.  I bought a headphone amp, but there's just no booms to be had with the PC360's.
> 
> I am thinking that the Beyerdynamics DT series will give me a lot more fun sound for my current use, but I still need a headset.  However, the Beyerdynamics are not listed as being compatible with the V-Moda Boom Mic.  Is there an issue with it?


 
 Custom One Pro requires headphones to have a removable 3.5mm cable. Try Beyerdynamic Custom one pro.


----------



## big-country

Anyone have an optimal setting to run the Mixamp pro for Astro A40 gen2 and then for the K701 annie off of XB1? Also which setting to use within the Xb1 itself. I only play FPS shooters so just looking for the optimal settings for positional ques haven't really found a clear cut answer or the perfect setting for it yet.


----------



## Change is Good

The X2 seems to finally be dropping in price. Here's to hoping it follows suit with prior X1 deals.


----------



## jincuteguy

So I'm looking for a solution for PC gaming.  I wants Dolby Headphone surround and a good external DAC Amp combo then to Headphones.  How would I set this up? thx.


----------



## hi2chris

jincuteguy said:


> So I'm looking for a solution for PC gaming.  I wants Dolby Headphone surround and a good external DAC Amp combo then to Headphones.  How would I set this up? thx.


 
 Maybe you should read the first page, then come back with some more specific questions/parameters such as price range.
 You seemed to have put a total of 5 sec of effort, i could be wrong but i doubt it.


----------



## ajjekko

Hey, can someone advise me as to what my best options are?
  
 Here's what I'm itching to do:
 I own a PS4 and the Fidelio X2's and the V-Moda M100. I'm looking to get virtual surround on my PS4, so I looked into the Mixamp but people complain of hissing and other issues. I'm also considering a Skullcandy PLYR1 because it seems to have decent quality and the convenience of wireless. Now I also have a Fiio E10k which I've been meaning to replace because I want virtual surround on my PC, so now I'm considering buying a Creative X7 so I can use it between my PS4 and PC. Anyone got any tips for what the best option is for sound quality?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

ajjekko said:


> Hey, can someone advise me as to what my best options are?
> 
> Here's what I'm itching to do:
> I own a PS4 and the Fidelio X2's and the V-Moda M100. I'm looking to get virtual surround on my PS4, so I looked into the Mixamp but people complain of hissing and other issues. I'm also considering a Skullcandy PLYR1 because it seems to have decent quality and the convenience of wireless. Now I also have a Fiio E10k which I've been meaning to replace because I want virtual surround on my PC, so now I'm considering buying a Creative X7 so I can use it between my PS4 and PC. Anyone got any tips for what the best option is for sound quality?


 

 I've recently returned to this thread after some time spent away from the subject, so I'm still catching up. I know at least one person here will likely suggest the Creative X7. As far as I can tell it has good quality and lots of inputs, but I have heard it mentioned that you must use a work-around for mics on PS4. I do not know what the work around involves, but it likely involves an output from either the mic or the X7 itself to the PS4 controller.
  
 In regards to the Mixamp, I have one myself, though like I said, I've been absent from the thread for a while so am not sure of problems others have encountered. The Mixamp when paired with headphones of a similar sensitivity to the A40 is pretty good. The problem is the mic output when used with the PS4 is appalling, however there is a work around. The theory is that the Mixamp's own internal noise gate doesn't play well with the PS4. The workaround is to connect a PS4 chat cable to the output designed for XBOX 360 chat cable and the other end to the controller. This bypasses the noise gate of the Mixamp. The one problem there is that, if you have the USB cable connected to the PS4 controller it makes noise. I personally like to keep my controller plugged in so this bugs me a little and is one of the reasons I have returned to the thread beside generally catching up.
  
 One problem with the Mixamp when pairing it with some headphones is that if they are sensitive you will hear a hiss (the noise floor). On the other hand, if you pair it with harder to drive headphones, the Mixamp alone may not give sufficient volume, meaning you have to double amp as the Mixamp does not have a line level output that contains the virtual surround processed audio. This again can cause hiss.
  
 Edit: In consideration of the fact that you mentioned wanting to replace the Fiio, I assume you are in need of a DAC/amp for your PC. I think you'll be better off with the X7, though as I don't own one I cannot answer any questions about it.
  
 Feels kind of pointless me having spent the time explaining the Mixamp issues now


----------



## fullmoon280

do the hd 598's need a amp when used on a ps4 with a modmic when used with a mixamp or onboard audio?


----------



## Hansotek

fullmoon280 said:


> do the hd 598's need a amp when used on a ps4 with a modmic when used with a mixamp or onboard audio?


 
  
 For the MixAmp - not really. They definitely _can _benefit from amping, but it's not absolutely necessary out of the MixAmp.


----------



## fullmoon280

Thats a relief to hear i had a few headphones i was looking at but they all ended up being $300+ cause they all needed a amp and i wasn't sure i really wanted to spend that much since i'm kinda new to this and i've only used stuff like razer cacharias,siberia v2,slyrs.
  
 *edit* Will they work on a pc w/o a amp?


----------



## Yethal

fullmoon280 said:


> do the hd 598's need a amp when used on a ps4 with a modmic when used with a mixamp or onboard audio?


 
 I have the HD598 mixamp and the modmic and it is entirely possible to use this combo without additional amp


----------



## Hansotek

fullmoon280 said:


> Thats a relief to hear i had a few headphones i was looking at but they all ended up being $300+ cause they all needed a amp and i wasn't sure i really wanted to spend that much since i'm kinda new to this and i've only used stuff like razer cacharias,siberia v2,slyrs.
> 
> *edit* Will they work on a pc w/o a amp?



That depends on the power supplied by your PC's headphone output. In most cases, the answer is yes. My MacBook Pro drives them just fine. Same with the iPad and iPhone. I did run into an issue one time where I couldn't get much volume out of a lower-end Toshiba laptop... but I guess that's what you get when you buy a $200 laptop, LOL!


----------



## akatsuki

ajjekko said:


> Hey, can someone advise me as to what my best options are?
> 
> Here's what I'm itching to do:
> I own a PS4 and the Fidelio X2's and the V-Moda M100. I'm looking to get virtual surround on my PS4, so I looked into the Mixamp but people complain of hissing and other issues. I'm also considering a Skullcandy PLYR1 because it seems to have decent quality and the convenience of wireless. Now I also have a Fiio E10k which I've been meaning to replace because I want virtual surround on my PC, so now I'm considering buying a Creative X7 so I can use it between my PS4 and PC. Anyone got any tips for what the best option is for sound quality?


 

 We have the same setup  - I went with the massdrop X7 - the Mixamp just has too many compromises with hiss and mic problems. We will see how it goes.


----------



## GVNMllN

First of all, thanks to Mad Lust Envy & all the contributors to this guide. Really informative.
  
 I have a question:
  
 Xbox 360 > DSS > Mixamp 2011 > Fiio E12A > KX77 or PC360
  
 I Take the Mixamp/PC360 out of the equation when I don't need chat. At least until I can get the KX77 rigged up with either the BoomPro or the DX Clip On.
 The Mixamp is only there to pass through the audio from the DSS via MP3 in, with the dial set fully to Voice.
 I find this adds quite a lot of noise unless I dial it back to Game.
 I'm just wondering whether a better quality chat cable would help matters, or is that just the best I can hope for on the 360?
 I've been looking at this:
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201307378151?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=500501578943&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Bonus question:
 Has anyone in the UK found an alternative to the AKG adapter by Mimic Cables?
 http://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter
 I've tried everywhere (including emails to custom cable manufacturers).
 I can't believe this is so hard to come by.
 Thanks for any assistance


----------



## StrawberryChris

Sorry for bothering but I have a small question here. If I'm just looking for a headphone that have excellent soundstage, footsteps etc for FPS gaming purposes only. *Music isn't a big concern to me*. Is ATH AD700X the best bet? Really appreciate any help here!


----------



## Yethal

gvnmlln said:


> First of all, thanks to Mad Lust Envy & all the contributors to this guide. Really informative.
> 
> I have a question:
> 
> ...


 
 Why the hell are You outputting sound from the DSS to the Mixamp? This configuration offers no advantage over using just one of these devices at the time
  
 As for the noise, better quality cable would not help as the noise is generated by the mixamp itself
  
 As for the AKG adapter there is a guy on Head-Fi that used to make them custom You could try emailing him
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


----------



## ajjekko

napalmhardcore said:


> I've recently returned to this thread after some time spent away from the subject, so I'm still catching up. I know at least one person here will likely suggest the Creative X7. As far as I can tell it has good quality and lots of inputs, but I have heard it mentioned that you must use a work-around for mics on PS4. I do not know what the work around involves, but it likely involves an output from either the mic or the X7 itself to the PS4 controller.
> 
> In regards to the Mixamp, I have one myself, though like I said, I've been absent from the thread for a while so am not sure of problems others have encountered. The Mixamp when paired with headphones of a similar sensitivity to the A40 is pretty good. The problem is the mic output when used with the PS4 is appalling, however there is a work around. The theory is that the Mixamp's own internal noise gate doesn't play well with the PS4. The workaround is to connect a PS4 chat cable to the output designed for XBOX 360 chat cable and the other end to the controller. This bypasses the noise gate of the Mixamp. The one problem there is that, if you have the USB cable connected to the PS4 controller it makes noise. I personally like to keep my controller plugged in so this bugs me a little and is one of the reasons I have returned to the thread beside generally catching up.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the response. Your mixamp tidbit wasn't pointless, I took it into consideration and ended up settling on the $15 turtle beach DSS. I heard that its sound quality is identical to the mixamp, so I went along and saved roughly 90% of what I'd be paying for the mixamp. Now I'm a little confused as to what my upgrade path looks like from here; I'm certain I'll be satisfied with directly plugging my headphones into the DSS, but I've read around that people have connected their amps to the DSS. How does this work exactly? Would I need an RCA to 3.5mm converter going out the amp, then plugged into the DSS?


----------



## GVNMllN

yethal said:


> Why the hell are You outputting sound from the DSS to the Mixamp? This configuration offers no advantage over using just one of these devices at the time
> 
> As for the noise, better quality cable would not help as the noise is generated by the mixamp itself
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Yethal
 Thanks for the reply.
  
 I agree. The Mixamp has a busted Toslink port, so I find it really hard to shoot whilst simultaneously holding the optical cable in place.
 The only advantage I can think of is a higher K/D Ratio...
  
 Seriously though, I prefer the sound of the DSS over the Mixamp. But then there's no easy way to have chat capability with the DSS on its own.
 I experimented with various setups that weren't satisfactory involving the DSS + DSS2, that awful Speedlink adapter & a Belkin Rockstar.
 The results weren't great & I prefer to have less cables than Abbey Road if I can help it. Total trial & error stuff/curiosity.
  
 For all it's faults, the Mixamp keeps things relatively simple. It's just a pure passthrough to facilitate chat. Dolby Headphone is off.
 I also got it really cheap for exactly this purpose after holding off the inevitable.
 Prior to putting the E12A in there, the massive knob on the Mixamp was also an advantage to the way I have my setup.
 Since getting a dedicated headphone amp, I tend to leave my knob alone.
  
 But it works for me & it sounds great except for the aforementioned chat noise. I appreciate your input on that matter.
  
 As far as your link to the AKG adapter, again, Thanks.
 I've searched high & low on that subject. I came across that thread some time ago & to be honest I didn't really want to bug the guy as things didn't seem to work out well.
 As far as I could make out, he got treated fairly badly whilst trying to do something positive & I decided I didn't want to be one more annoyance to him.
  
 As it stands, if anyone (preferably UK based, but not necessarily) can build or source one of those adapters, feel free to get in touch.
 I've had one offer to have a custom built fly lead for that purpose, but that's not really ideal for pairing with the BoomPro.
  
 Just to clear a few things up that people will probably mention.
 I could do without the hassle of ordering from the States in case there's a problem, but I'm still open to that.
 I realise a Modmic = the cost of the Boompro + the adapter.
 Again, Abbey Road... I could do without the cables.
 I have a DX clip-on on the way.
 I also have kids.
 If the DX mic works out & the BoomPro doesn't, I'll be happy with that, even with the additional cable clutter.
 I'll also sleep easier knowing they might put £1.65 worth of microphone down the toilet as opposed to £40.


----------



## Yethal

gvnmlln said:


> Hi Yethal
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> (...)
> ...


 
  
 As far as easy setups, have You tried using a device akin to Steelseries Audiomixer, or pretty much any other previous-gen console soundcard that used 3.5mm and usb as inputs? They match perfectly with DSS outputs providing pretty much hassle free chat and are much cheaper than the mixamp.
  

  
  
 As for the Modmic, I have one attached to my HD598 and after twisting the cables together the entire setup is pretty tidy, not as tidy as having only one cable going from the cables but I'm satisifed with it nonetheless. Twisting the cables together is the way to go.
  
 If that fails too, why don't You mod Your headphones to have 3.5mm jack instead of mini-XLR? I'm pretty sure I've seen some guy on head-fi modding his AKG that way.


----------



## hi2chris

yethal said:


> If that fails too, why don't You mod Your headphones to have 3.5mm jack instead of mini-XLR? I'm pretty sure I've seen some guy on head-fi modding his AKG that way.


 
  I believe you are talking about this
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


----------



## inseconds99

hi2chris said:


> I believe you are talking about this
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


 
 I don't believe zombie is making adapters anymore.


----------



## hi2chris

inseconds99 said:


> I don't believe zombie is making adapters anymore.


 
 he is not but there are other options in the thread


----------



## StrawberryChris

strawberrychris said:


> Sorry for bothering but I have a small question here. If I'm just looking for a headphone that have excellent soundstage, footsteps etc for FPS gaming purposes only. *Music isn't a big concern to me*. Is ATH AD700X the best bet? Really appreciate any help here!




Any other choice here?


----------



## hi2chris

any AKG K7XX headphone in the series will do very well but depends on how much you want to spend. The ATH AD700X is very hard to beat at the price, for pure gaming soundstage that is.


----------



## Walderstorn

My Creative Omega just broke (like every Creative Tactic/Omega/Recon) as expected, now i can either go by the modmic route with my 598/600 or transfer the drivers from the creative to a new headphone, so im wondering:
  
 Where can i buy the modmic the cheapest in europe? I missed the madorc drop 2 months ago and i felt the one from massdrop wasnt good enough but that was when i didnt even need it, any help?


----------



## Draulius

I hear the DT880 has problems telling you if a sound is coming from the front or the rear. Can anyone confirm this? And does it persist on the 990?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Yethal

hi2chris said:


> I believe you are talking about this
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted


 
 No, not the adapter, some guy opened the headphones up got rid of the mini xlr plug and soldered 3.5mm jack in its place


----------



## StrawberryChris

Will ATH AD700X run fine on a basic PC or would i need to get amp or a better soundcard?


----------



## rudyae86

strawberrychris said:


> Will ATH AD700X run fine on a basic PC or would i need to get amp or a better soundcard?


 
 You should be fine running it from your PCs motherboard. They dont really need amping. You could even run them off from your phone.


----------



## hi2chris

yethal said:


> No, not the adapter, some guy opened the headphones up got rid of the mini xlr plug and soldered 3.5mm jack in its place


 
 Oh that does sound interesting


----------



## StrawberryChris

Thank you for your reply. Last question though!

 Does having a better soundcard, amp or whatever makes footsteps even more obvious? Better directional sound or anything? I don't really intend to use it for music so gameplay is all i care about. Do i really need a soundcard/amp etc?


----------



## Yethal

strawberrychris said:


> Thank you for your reply. Last question though!
> 
> Does having a better soundcard, amp or whatever makes footsteps even more obvious? Better directional sound or anything? I don't really intend to use it for music so gameplay is all i care about. Do i really need a soundcard/amp etc?


 
 Having a soundcard with proper virtual surround implemented gives a huge advantage over playing in plain stereo, amplification is needed in order to properly power more power-hungry headphones, but if you're planning to use low-impedance headphones then a good soundcard should be enough. Chdeck out Asus Xonar DG, it's the cheapest Xonar card out there and it does have virtual surround. You can add a dac an an amp later if You feel like upgrading.


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Having a soundcard with proper virtual surround implemented gives a huge advantage over playing in plain stereo, amplification is needed in order to properly power more power-hungry headphones, but if you're planning to use low-impedance headphones then a good soundcard should be enough. Chdeck out Asus Xonar DG, it's the cheapest Xonar card out there and it does have virtual surround. You can add a dac an an amp later if You feel like upgrading.




I'd honestly recommend the Sound Blaster X over the Xonar. The Xonar adds too much revurb. Though, if you're spending money on an amp and DAC already, may as well get the Soundblaster X7


----------



## rudyae86

pacotaco said:


> I'd honestly recommend the Sound Blaster X over the Xonar. The Xonar adds too much revurb. Though, if you're spending money on an amp and DAC already, may as well get the Soundblaster X7




This^^^

I had an SB X for 2 months until I realized that the amp on my unit was defective so had to return it. Therefore I have used my recon3d for a bit but decided to give the asus xonar dg a try. I recently bought it with the rebate and came out to be about 16 dollars from amazon. It sounds good but the reverb trips me out sometimes lol. I mean, reverb everywhere. It makes sense when you get reverb in between building in BF4 or some rooms but behind a rock or some other spot where there isnt anything where reverb would be obvious, it sounds fake to be honest. Now, its noticable when there is less sounds happening like in TDM matches, or games like counter strike, COD etc but if you play games like BF4 where there is alot of stuff going on at the same time....reverb is barely noticable. The thing about Dolby headphone though is that the rear svirtual speakers tend to stick out more than what SBX does to its rear speakers. I mean, Dolby headphone in its own way work quite well with movies and some people like the reverb effect. I still very much prefer SBX overall and Ill be on this asus xonar dg for a while untill I rack up enough money for an X7 or if something else comes along the way.

The only way you are going to know if you like it or not is by testing them out yourselve and see which you like better.


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> I'd honestly recommend the Sound Blaster X over the Xonar. The Xonar adds too much revurb. Though, if you're spending money on an amp and DAC already, may as well get the Soundblaster X7


 
 I'd do that since I have an X7 of my own and love it but it might be too pricey for an entry-level gear.


----------



## kazsud

OK so I had a setting wrong in my ps4 and once I set chat audio to headphones they got much louder and more 3D surround sounding. Now the a40s sound loud and full sounding.
  
 So then I connected the hdva600 and hd800s. Wow! first thing I thought was turn my speakers off but they already were lol. I set the volume on the hdva600 to 100 and control the volume with the mixup. I don't notice any hiss/noise floor at all. I also can here the differences in eq settings as well.
  
 Now I need to get a mic for using the 800s. I might just take the a40/mixamp back and just buy a used mixamp online.


----------



## StrawberryChris

pacotaco said:


> I'd honestly recommend the Sound Blaster X over the Xonar. The Xonar adds too much revurb. Though, if you're spending money on an amp and DAC already, may as well get the Soundblaster X7



Thank you guys so much for all the replies, do you have a link to Sound Blaster X? Is it this? Sorry to ask but what are the cheapest options out there other then Xonar DG and do USB soundcard generally do worst when compared to on-board soundcard? 


Can't wait to purchase my ATH AD700X when I'm home :rolleyes: .

Edit : 2 more questions.

1. If such headphone and soundcard gives such advantage, why do no pros CSGO players ever use it? Is it just because they are sponsored? 

2. The cable itself is quite long, does tying the cable hurt it over time? I plan to roll it up and tie it up using some bands. Don't want to spoil the cable..


----------



## StrawberryChris

strawberrychris said:


> Thank you guys so much for all the replies, do you have a link to Sound Blaster X? Is it this? Sorry to ask but what are the cheapest options out there other then Xonar DG and do USB soundcard generally do worst when compared to on-board soundcard?
> 
> 
> Can't wait to purchase my ATH AD700X when I'm home :rolleyes: .
> ...




Anyone? Getting the headphone tomorrow ):


----------



## inseconds99

strawberrychris said:


> Anyone? Getting the headphone tomorrow ):




Imo pro players are pro players. Astro a40's, razor krakens or hd800 don't matter that much. They have situational awareness and precise aim better then normal players. Audiophile headphones, although amazing in clarity will not make you have better aim or better situational awareness.


----------



## Walderstorn

Kinda agree, for CS and BF4 i still prefer my Creative Omega Recon3D setup, i prefer the closed enviromnent it provides and the recon equalizer is just the press of a button so i love it, downside is the durability, i had to fix/mod it 4 times already.


----------



## Yethal

strawberrychris said:


> Thank you guys so much for all the replies, do you have a link to Sound Blaster X? Is it this? Sorry to ask but what are the cheapest options out there other then Xonar DG and do USB soundcard generally do worst when compared to on-board soundcard?
> 
> 
> Can't wait to purchase my ATH AD700X when I'm home
> ...


 
 USB soundcards have the advantage of:

being USB (duh) so they can be plugged into more devices than PCI or PCI- Express cards which can only be used with desktop PC
being less susceptible to the electric noise
having hardware controls (volume, input/output switching and more), Only really high-end internal cards have remotes, cheaper ones need to be adjusted in software which is not as convenient
  
 No, the card we are talking about is this one: (X7 page) altough the card You linked to can be used instead (only cheaper and with little less features)
  
 1. There are three reasons for that:
  

CS:GO has a mediocre sound engine so better headphones do not provide as big of an advantage
They are sponsored so they have to use crappy gaming headsets (it's the same in competitive COD, everybody is wearing Astro A40,), I know of one team (Team Kaliber) that uses Audio-Technica ADH-1
Even though it's 2015 most people still think that virtual surround is a gimmick and do not care about their audio, that applies to pro gamers too unfortunately.
  
 2. Theoretically that could damage the cable over time but I tied knots on my headphone cables in the past and can't tell a difference. I recommend modding the AD700x to have removable cable anyway.


----------



## StrawberryChris

inseconds99 said:


> Imo pro players are pro players. Astro a40's, razor krakens or hd800 don't matter that much. They have situational awareness and precise aim better then normal players. Audiophile headphones, although amazing in clarity will not make you have better aim or better situational awareness.




Make sense but since in pro games, everyone is a strong player. Wouldn't it be better to have a headphone that is better for directional sounds/bigger soundstage?


----------



## StrawberryChris

yethal said:


> USB soundcards have the advantage of:
> 
> being USB (duh) so they can be plugged into more devices than PCI or PCI- Express cards which can only be used with desktop PC
> being less susceptible to the electric noise
> ...




Wow, thank you for your reply. That was really helpful. Now I just have to decide if I should get a soundcard or not.. ):


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> Imo pro players are pro players. Astro a40's, razor krakens or hd800 don't matter that much. They have situational awareness and precise aim better then normal players. Audiophile headphones, although amazing in clarity will not make you have better aim or better situational awareness.


 

  
 Edit: Though headphones give you a bit more situational awareness and is helpful, your aim is still your aim. Sound doesnt improve aim 
  
 I play sometimes with my headphones off and have a good match of TDM in BF3 or BF4....


----------



## inseconds99

strawberrychris said:


> Make sense but since in pro games, everyone is a strong player. Wouldn't it be better to have a headphone that is better for directional sounds/bigger soundstage?


 
 Yes but chances are if you're a pro player you have a sponsor for gaming gear which require you to use their headsets. Not to mention, these people are gamers and a lot of time gamers like gamer gear and gaming companies don't promote the audiophile world. I have gamed semipro between 2003-2005 and made some money on lan and online tourneys playing original COD and COD2 in CAL and GGL and I never used anything but a Plantronics headset and never had an issue with sound at the competitive level. I had aim, practiced 6-7 hours a day and knew every aspect of every map. That was way more important then the headphone being better at positional sound. Its not like when you have a bad headset that you won't hear the general direction of where the sound was coming from, and ultimately in a twitch based game thats all you need.
  
 I now have a real job, am not a teenager or young adult and appreciate all technology including sound. Sound is something that the most of general public overlook, I know tons of people that spend a few thousand dollars on calibrated plasmas tvs and have a Soundbar and are ok with it. I have tons of nieces and nephews and younger cousins that play more games then I ever did growning up and they're using turtle beach headphones or their beats solos and they could care less about my HD800's LOL.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Edit: Though headphones give you a bit more situational awareness and is helpful, your aim is still your aim. Sound doesnt improve aim
> 
> I play sometimes with my headphones off and have a good match of TDM in BF3 or BF4....


 
 Well, the way I see it headphones provide information for the player to act on and better headphones provide more accurate data. Skilled player may get by on inaccurate sound but better positioning helps make better decisions (after all, all games are series of decisions)


----------



## RRod

When I played comp fortress back in the day, I found sound was really SOUND. It wasn't small little details that mattered. We weren't hearing twig snaps or footsteps, but more like "they in fact DO have a sentry up", "the pipe trap is getting laid now". Honestly most of the time I could have had a mono signal and done just fine, since once you play maps enough you know where the other team will tend to be. Hell most of the time you were hearing voice comms anyway. In something like CS:S the details mattered more since targets came from more directions, but still most of the time it simply came down to what others have said: who could aim faster and truer.
  
 Since sound is a big jumble, there comes a level of "stuff" where you're kind of just ignoring the stimulus, so depending upon the nature of the gameplay you may in fact never really be super tuned-in to the sound. With a really good virtual surround setup I could see it giving just that little bit of extra reaction time, especially where visual cues are minimal, but honestly if you hear a sound and nothing's in front of you, the hand is pretty quick to whip around.


----------



## kazsud

inseconds99 said:


> Imo pro players are pro players. Astro a40's, razor krakens or hd800 don't matter that much. They have situational awareness and precise aim better then normal players. Audiophile headphones, although amazing in clarity will not make you have better aim or better situational awareness.




I'm only doing this to up the satisfaction.


----------



## inseconds99

Mind you my stance is coming from someone who has experienced this personally, I still game and I own the X7 and HD800's and I have owned many other higher end and well respected headphones ( fidelio x2's should be arriving today). I am not trying to talk anyone out of getting high end headphones to game with, in fact, I encourage it. My stance is that don't expect to purchase audiophile headphones and go from a mediocre player to an amazing one. Only to go from poor sound to amazing sound, sound that the team of people who created the game intended for you to experience and enjoy. You might get better positional queues and depth but that doesn't mean you'll achieve better aim or faster reflexes.


----------



## inseconds99

I just got my Fidelio X2's in and OMG they're exactly what I wanted my X1's to be. They're comfortable, look great in all black and they sound amazing for the $198 I spent on them. I might have to keep these instead of buying a M-stage HPA-2 and a modmic for my HD800, decisions decisions. I could keep the X2's, slap a boompro on them and they can be my multiplayer headphones and my HD800 can be my singleplayer or non chat and music headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Well, the way I see it headphones provide information for the player to act on and better headphones provide more accurate data. Skilled player may get by on inaccurate sound but better positioning helps make better decisions (after all, all games are series of decisions)


 thats subjective in terms of what headphones you are using. You hae to remember tham most sound in games are withing the mids. Problem is that if a headphone has a good prescence of low end, more than likely that in some way, it will leak into the mids and therefore eliminate some of the info you are supposed to be hearing.

Now for headphones like the Q701, k701/702 and AD700/X, it will help you, by what degree is also pretty subjective. But like you said, its awareness. You know where the sound is coming from. Now that you know where the enemy is at, then what? You shoot him/her but at that point, your hands and finger better be accurate and quick and thats where it will determine how good of a player you are. 

Sounds is probably the icing on the cake. Thats what I believe.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I've personally made kills based on sound alone. I heard someone moving around behind a suface that could be penetrated by bullets so I shot the wall to get the kill. I've also been in a situation where I heard someone come up a flight of stairs, so I waited by the doorway in the adjacent room and was able to track the players movement right until he was in my crosshairs.
  
 While some people may be better at aiming, have better situational awareness and reaction speeds, knowing where they are and where they are going definitely helps you gain the upper hand in particular situations, especially if you are not moving yourself and they don't know you are there.
  
 Personally I find the sound engine of the game to be the most important factor. Both of the examples above were using stereo speakers. The positioning of the speakers in relation to my monitor and my position in relation to both provided very accurate positioning.
  
 When I first started using headphones/headsets more frequently, what struck me most was the increased immersion. When I tried a better set of headphones the increased clarity again upped the immersion. I think between the technology (whether it be virtual surround or just better positional audio in the games sound engine) and hardware (headphones and soundcards/processors/amps) you can achieve both a more immersive experience and a greater sense of where sounds are coming from in the virtual world. I look forward to seeing what the future holds too. I still find I am unable to tell if a sound is coming from above or below me. I seem to remember reading a post about one of creatives defunct technologies where they were working on that. That is certainly something I'd like to see (or rather hear) worked on/brought back.


----------



## Evshrug

I had a period where I tried "the surround thing" and concluded that audio cues were just "sounds." It is hard to hear footsteps, and a lot of times all you "need to know" is somebody is on a turret, a vehicle is nearby, we require more vespine gas. This was primarily back when I was trying to "sneak" extra game time in my bedroom at my parents, and Yamaha's headphone surround wasn't impressive enough (and too reverb-y) to justify having a big home theater receiver on my tiny desk (or on the flammable boxes next to the desk. I got pretty good with map awareness and aim – maybe I wouldn't beat Mad in 1v1, but there are a game or two a night where I carry my team.

Nowadays, I find surround sound to be the experience I want to have. When I spawn, there's no question where to go to find the action. I may not be tracking footsteps, usually, but I am tracking gunfire and pulling off some tactical timings I couldn't have done in stereo (firing when opponents are about to round the corner, rescuing teammates under fire). I also like surround for the sheer heightened realism and immersion of the experience. 3D TVs are better than the theaters but even still I'm "meh" and most movies I couldn't care about the difference, having something sound like it's in the room with me really brings me into that experience. Destiny is cool, the last of us is really engrossing, and don't even get me started at how startlingly spooked I got playing P.T.


----------



## rudyae86

Like I said before, it does help and like what you have said I agree. But I have to say again and what others have said..... Hmmmm how should I put it to be more understandable.
  
 Physically, sound wont help your game of movement, aim or having a snappy finger. It does however help you be more aware and pinpoint sounds spot on. But just because you know where that person is at, does not mean you are going to kill him and does not mean you are going to kill every other guy out there in that particular game you are playing, without dying as well.
  
 The thing is, I have seen and read a few post on here where some believe that they will obtain "more skill" when heaving a competitive gaming headphone/headset and we need to make it clear that it will increase your awareness alot more than your typical 10 dollar earbuds or on ear Dre beats. The situation with headphones and the games audio engine is to immerse you as much as it can while giving you quality details. Some prefer more immersion, some prefer anemic bass with lots of sound in the highs and mids. It all comes down to preference in that regard.
  
 When we talk about god inducing audio coming from some headphones or god mode or something.....its doesnt mean you will be l33t in any game you play. It just means that the positional audio, soundstage and clarity of details is there for a person to hear the right things that should favor that person in a competitive game. Thats all it really means, at least to me.
  
 But thats just my opinion and my taste of headphones changes or seems to be more on the immersive side. I dont mind having a competitive headphone or headset (I just got a G4ME ONE for a cheap price, though I think something is wrong with it) but most of the time, I prefer my K7XX, Beyrer COPs for racing, or when I had my X1 (X2 should be added to my collection in the fall....)
  
*Anyways*,
  
 Question about my like new headset, the Sennheiser* G4ME ONE / PC360*.......... I ran some test tones, especially at the low frequencies and there seems to be a buzz from 20hz to about 100hz on the left driver and a short burst of buzz on the right driver about 120hz, nothing crazy loud, like a loud buzz but its noticable. Once the test tone passes that frequency, it all clears up.
  
 Now usually that would mean that is a defective headset or headphone. But it could also be a mismatching driver/s. But could it also be my source? Source, Im using a Xonar DG, running stereo with the gain set at option 2 (32 to 64ohm) and using the test tone I suppose everyone uses from the ultimate headphone test website.
  
 I want to say it is defective but Id like to hear those of you that have a PC360 or G4ME ONE and let me know if this is something common or not.
  
 I think I trained my ears so much to listen to those type of details I never really payed attention to, before joining here at head-fi lol
  
 I played some BF4 as well with the headset but Its hard to tell if there was any buzzing going on since there is alot of stuff going on...
  
 EDit: EVs, whats P.T.?
  
 EDIT 2: The buzzing is real in the G4ME ONE, got a defective unit. Buzzing during explosions or distortion in Battlefield 3 and 4 was evident, not good mayne. Returning. The comfort on them are nice and I got the black version which actually looked really cool but sadly, the distortion/buzzing is there . Wanted a good open headset but now i have to wait a bit longer until I get a chance at another good deal.


----------



## Evshrug

Napalm,
The issue with consoles (so far) is they use the dumbed down assumption that you're going to use 5.1 or 7.1 speakers in a ring around you, so THERE ISN'T any height positioning. There are a few exceptions in some console games with headphone surround mode... Like, three. OpenAL isn't owned by Creative (I don't think), but game devs stopped using it in favor of FMOD and WWISE audio libraries/processing. Technically, the new creative stuff still supports full 3D surround if you feed it the data, just... game devs aren't using it.


----------



## Evshrug

P.T. Was the public trailer for the next silent hill game, this time by kojima productions, till Kojima had a bit of a falling out with Konami and left them. Game cancelled, which is a massive shame because the demo was really good, and I'm not even into horror games.

Can't you use customer support to get that G4ME ONE fixed?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> P.T. Was the public trailer for the next silent hill game, this time by kojima productions, till Kojima had a bit of a falling out with Konami and left them. Game cancelled, which is a massive shame because the demo was really good, and I'm not even into horror games.


 
 OH that demo. Yeah, I was sad when I heard about Kojima. The audio in that demo.....I almost wet my pants lol


----------



## Helvetica bold

I need some advice. I just bought the AD700x and I'm using it with my 2011 Mixamp 5.8. So far I love
 the set, I just need to break in the 700s. Anyway I'm rocking this on the PS4. Whats the simplest mic attachment
 option i can use with the PS4? Will  modmic work?


----------



## dizcotic

What do you do think about Sony MDR-1R?


----------



## Evshrug

Futura Black,
Mod mic will work fine with the AD700x, though you may need a chat cable connecting your controller to the Mixamp. Turtle beach sells a "chat" cable perfect for this. Then, you just connect the mod mic to the Mixamp.

Dizcotic,
I've read average to good reviews of that headphone. By all means it's fine but not especially suited to gaming, nor does it carry the unique sound quality of Sony's MDR-MA900 or the wooden MDR-R10. Hopefully Sony makes a worthy flagship successor soon, or a $250 open headphone of the MA900's quality.


----------



## dizcotic

Evshrug,
 Thank for your commend and let me ask a question.
 Can AKG 712 pro worth if pair with the cheap amp likes *Fiio E9K without mixamp?*


----------



## dizcotic

Evshrug,
 Thanks for you reply. 
  
 It's worth for AKG k712 pro to pair with cheap AMP like *Fiio E9K (aka E09K)?*


----------



## fullmoon280

I was wondering does the midmic pick up on the hd 598's sound leak?Will i have to keep the volume low when chatting and playing a game so my friends wont hear my game sound?


----------



## Yethal

fullmoon280 said:


> I was wondering does the midmic pick up on the hd 598's sound leak?Will i have to keep the volume low when chatting and playing a game so my friends wont hear my game sound?


 
 I have the 598 and the modmic. It does not pick up game sound.


----------



## Evshrug

dizcotic said:


> Evshrug,
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> It's worth to pair AKG k712 pro with cheap amp likes Fiio E9K?




Sure! The FiiO E9K shares some amp components with the Creative X7 I usually use now, though the FiiO is tuned a little warmer and more forgiving.

That said, the X7 is a little more revealing of details and more transparent to the source game/music files, and you can change opamps to tweak the character of the sound... not to mention the other features of the X7.

So basically, the E09K has plenty of power for the AKG K712, and provide capable fun sound, but it's not the last word in desktop amplifiers. Definitely a great amp to start with. Similar price range, I really liked the K712 with a Schiit Vali, though the Vali is sensitive to you physically bumping it or nearby phone interference.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Napalm,
> The issue with consoles (so far) is they use the dumbed down assumption that you're going to use 5.1 or 7.1 speakers in a ring around you, so THERE ISN'T any height positioning. There are a few exceptions in some console games with headphone surround mode... Like, three. OpenAL isn't owned by Creative (I don't think), but game devs stopped using it in favor of FMOD and WWISE audio libraries/processing. Technically, the new creative stuff still supports full 3D surround if you feed it the data, just... game devs aren't using it.


 

 Just speculating, but I imagine the rise of better onboard audio is partially responsible too. My brother bought a PC in the late '90s but I didn't really properly get into PC gaming until I bought my own PC nearly a decade later (my social life was much more active from the late '90s to mid/late '00s, so gaming took a back seat). I didn't see how the audio scene developed in gaming during that time, plus I wasn't as interested in tech back then as I am now.
  
 I am aware that there was a time when a sound card was pretty much an essential purchase for any self respecting gamer, let alone audiophiles. I was always seeing references to Sound Blaster and from some of the games I've back bought (to see what I'd missed during my absence as a heavy gamer) there are Sound Blaster checkboxes in the options menu. Developers likely don't want to go to the effort of programming for compatibility with something that will only benefit a minority (PC, Sound Blaster owners), especially nowadays where the majority of games are multi-platform.
  
 Nowadays headsets are a big part of gaming whether it be on PC or consoles. I hope that 3D audio will make a return and one day become the norm. I guess only time will tell. I must admit in some ways I preferred it when console and PC development was pretty much independent of each other. I also miss the days when graphics comparisons between ports (whether it be from console to console or between PC and console) were actually interesting. I'm one of the few people that look at graphics comparisons because I find them interesting and not for bragging rights. The differences between ports are so subtle in comparison to say the N64 vs PS1 days that it isn't very interesting anymore.


----------



## Evshrug

Napalm,
Yeah, comparisons were educational for what graphics features were added over time... I wouldn't be able to appreciate tesselation or ambient occlusion if I hadn't read up on them.

I don't really think motherboard audio really drives the industry... It's more that baseline audio capabilities are better across the board now. Consoles are mainstream, and they actually have dedicated audio processing hardware now... No DAC/amp, but processing. And motherboards are okay, and some have built-in audio processing to take the load off the CPU. So, game devs can take advantage of a higher common baseline. Here's hoping VR tech trickles down to even better surround sound!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Napalm,
> Here's hoping VR tech trickles down to even better surround sound!


 
 I see a lot of negativity/cynicism towards VR in various comments sections which I find sad. I'm really hoping this time around VR takes off. Maybe it's because I was born in the '80s, but VR is a really exciting prospect to me. I too hope VR influences audio


----------



## GVNMllN

yethal said:


> As far as easy setups, have You tried using a device akin to Steelseries Audiomixer, or pretty much any other previous-gen console soundcard that used 3.5mm and usb as inputs? They match perfectly with DSS outputs providing pretty much hassle free chat and are much cheaper than the mixamp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'd looked into another Steelseries product, but it had supposed issues with buzzing, plus what appeared to be a cable the thickness of a circa '98 VGA cable running out of it.
 Gave it a wide berth, obviously.
 The Audiomixer seems decent enough, but it appears to be hard to come by these days for a sensible price.
 The Mixamp is fine for my needs & as I said, I got it for a decent price. But thanks...
 As far as modding... I had my heart set on the Fidelio X2 right up to the moment the KX77 email arrived. (Of course they dropped in price the week after I got the AKG's)
 There's still a chance I might get them for a comparison. Possibly letting the AKG's go. So I'd rather leave them stock.
  
 I see Massdrop have another Modmic drop which is tempting me. Just wondering if I could get your opinion on a couple of things?
  
 Do you have the Omni or Uni? With or without mute?
 I tend to game in a room where someone might occasionally have a TV on in the background or they might be talking to someone.
  
 Although I'm veering towards choosing the Omni/Mute, is the pickup of ambient sounds on that version so great that I'd be better off with the Uni?
 Mute is preferable, but is the difference in SQ going to be that much better by doing without?
  
 Although the answers to these questions might look obvious on paper, I'd prefer someone's opinion that has real world experience as opposed to going by the spec sheet.
 I don't have the luxury of gaming in an isolation tank, just wondering if what's happening in the background is enough to justify going with the less versatile microphone?


----------



## Yethal

gvnmlln said:


> I'd looked into another Steelseries product, but it had supposed issues with buzzing, plus what appeared to be a cable the thickness of a circa '98 VGA cable running out of it.
> Gave it a wide berth, obviously.
> The Audiomixer seems decent enough, but it appears to be hard to come by these days for a sensible price.
> The Mixamp is fine for my needs & as I said, I got it for a decent price. But thanks...
> ...


 
 It doesn't have to be Steelseries product specifically. Any previous gen console headset will do (they all had usb for power and chat and 3.5mm for game audio with 3.5mm to rca adapter)
  
 I have the Unidirectional version with the mute switch, and so far none of my friends have complained about background noise or voice quality when on Skype or in-game.
  
 that Modmic is sensitive enough to be used for instrument recording as a cheaper alternative for a proper pickup (useful with acoustic instruments).
  
 Keep in mind that Modmic ships with 3m cable which is really, really long. I had mine shortened to 1.2m to match the length of the HD598 replacement cable. I recommend You do the same (unless 3m headphone cable isn't a problem) It looks like this:
  

  
 Whichever version You pick I recommend going with the mute switch. It saved my life more than once.


----------



## dizcotic

evshrug said:


> Sure! The FiiO E9K shares some amp components with the Creative X7 I usually use now, though the FiiO is tuned a little warmer and more forgiving.
> 
> That said, the X7 is a little more revealing of details and more transparent to the source game/music files, and you can change opamps to tweak the character of the sound... not to mention the other features of the X7.
> 
> So basically, the E09K has plenty of power for the AKG K712, and provide capable fun sound, but it's not the last word in desktop amplifiers. Definitely a great amp to start with. Similar price range, I really liked the K712 with a Schiit Vali, though the Vali is sensitive to you physically bumping it or nearby phone interference.


 
  
 So, now my choices are...
 1. Sony MDR-1A ($235) in my country + Asus Xonar DGX sound card ($29)
2. AKG K712 pro ($616) in my country + FiiO E09k ($115) or SOUND CARD ASUS ESSENCE STX​ ($138) or SOUND CARD ASUS ESSENCE STX​ II ($256)
  
 What do you think? please advice me.
 I focus on worthy, comfy and a little of gaming.


----------



## inseconds99

I believe I've asked this before but I never got a solid answer but has anyone here attached a modmic to an hd800? If so do you have some pictures? Has anyone attempted to remove a modmic from an 800 or any other headphone, did it cause any damage to the paint? I am concerned that I would install the modmic then in the future go to sell the headphone and attempt to remove the little bracket and it pulls the paint off or creates a circle in the paint.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> I believe I've asked this before but I never got a solid answer but has anyone here attached a modmic to an hd800? If so do you have some pictures? Has anyone attempted to remove a modmic from an 800 or any other headphone, did it cause any damage to the paint? I am concerned that I would install the modmic then in the future go to sell the headphone and attempt to remove the little bracket and it pulls the paint off or creates a circle in the paint.


 
 Found on Google Images:
  

  
 According to guys from AntLion the magnet should not leave any defects on the paint regardless of the headphone model. As for now there is no reason not to trust them.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> Found on Google Images:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am not concerned about the magnets I am concerns about the 3m tape that sticks the magnet to the headphones. I'm concerned that the adhesive when removed will take paint with it. Especially on the 800 which is notorious for paint that easily chips and scratches.

Edit: also I would be sticking it to that grey space on the bottom of that picture just above where the cable connector is as its a flat space with enough room for the mount.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm the last person to be asked about mics but why not a good Lavalier to USB?


----------



## inseconds99

fegefeuer said:


> I'm the last person to be asked about mics but why not a good Lavalier to USB?


 
 I already have a zalmen clip on and it is annoying to keep attaching and reattaching not to mention the sound quality is terrible and seems to pick up a lot of background noise.
  
 I was thinking about getting a USB desktop mic, like a snowball or yeti but the room I am in has a girlfriend and a tv that are on at all times lol. Also the mic would be sitting 3+ feet away from me next to my monitor. I don't know if there is a desktop mic that can sit that far away, be clear and block out background noise.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> I already have a zalmen clip on and it is annoying to keep attaching and reattaching not to mention the sound quality is terrible and seems to pick up a lot of background noise.
> 
> I was thinking about getting a USB desktop mic, like a snowball or yeti but the room I am in has a girlfriend and a tv that are on at all times lol. Also the mic would be sitting 3+ feet away from me next to my monitor. I don't know if there is a desktop mic that can sit that far away, be clear and block out background noise.


 
 Since You're using HD800 together with the X7 I assume You're using it in unbalanced mode. How about a custom HD800 > 3.5mm adapter to be used with V-moda Boom Pro? There was a guy here who had that kind of setup with HD700


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> Since You're using HD800 together with the X7 I assume You're using it in unbalanced mode. How about a custom HD800 > 3.5mm adapter to be used with V-moda Boom Pro? There was a guy here who had that kind of setup with HD700


 
 I would be up for anything at this point.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> I would be up for anything at this point.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/30705#post_11589493
  
 This guy did it. Maybe He'd be willing to make an adapter for HD800 too.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/30705#post_11589493
> 
> This guy did it. Maybe He'd be willing to make an adapter for HD800 too.


 
  
 Casper does some pretty awesome work. Dunno if he's selling that kind of cable but it's definitely awesome. I've love something like that with the MrSpeakers connectors.


----------



## joinmyparty

Hello guys!
 Can u advise me what is better fostex th-600, FidelioX2, HiFiMan 400(500?) for movies/fims and music - dnb/electronic/dance/pop/rap. Heard about brigtness th600 and brain tiredness after them, buy another one said its good and scene details much better.. And ofc value, im not audiofile. And dac for them ~ 300-400$?
 Big thanks!


----------



## rudyae86

joinmyparty said:


> Hello guys!
> Can u advise me what is better fostex th-600, FidelioX2, HiFiMan 400(500?) for movies/fims and music - dnb/electronic/dance/pop/rap. Heard about brigtness th600 and brain tiredness after them, buy another one said its good and scene details much better.. And ofc value, im not audiofile. And dac for them ~ 300-400$?
> Big thanks!


 
 This is a gaming thread and you didn't mention gaming at all. Hmmm
  
 I can vouch for the X2, great bargain at the current price they are going for and no need for an amp as well. Probably the cheapest of the other 2 you mentioned. As for DAC.....well Im not so sure about that. You could just go with a Schiit Modi to stay within a budget.
  
 Since you did mention DNB/Electronic/Dance/Pop/Rap, maybe the th600 could be a better headphone, especially for that bass but also the Hifiman 400 but those require an amp I suppose. If this is going to be your first pair of headphones, I would highly suggest the X2, you wont be dissapointed. No extreme low end big bass from them but it has a good amount of bass and it should cater to your needs. When I had my X1, I used them for EDM and Movies....and games of course, so the X2 should be a refinement of that.
  
 Back to the DAC, do you have any current sound card in your PC? depending on what you have, you could save a few bucks and maybe rather get an amp instead....?
  
 Also, please try to write out what you currently have so as to have a general idea.
  
 I see more and more of you newbies just coming in and asking without doing any research. Dont expect and easy answer. What we like in sound, you may not like it.


----------



## PacoTaco

joinmyparty said:


> Hello guys!
> Can u advise me what is better fostex th-600, FidelioX2, HiFiMan 400(500?) for movies/fims and music - dnb/electronic/dance/pop/rap. Heard about brigtness th600 and brain tiredness after them, buy another one said its good and scene details much better.. And ofc value, im not audiofile. And dac for them ~ 300-400$?
> Big thanks!


 
  
 Depends on what you want.
  
 The HE400i (which is basically the HE400's successor but sounds more like the HE500) is more organic and natural.
  
 The TH600, however, would be more exciting in the bass, but may feel lifeless in the mids and colored a bit.
  
 You might like the ZMF Vibro too. Large mid-bass for a planar, and has the HE500's strengths...just with deep, slow decaying bass.
  
 I dislike the X2. Sounded odd and didn't fit my head very well. I'm in the minority in that opinion though. You might want to consider the HE400s that is coming out soon.


----------



## joinmyparty

Ty for respond. I mostly play rpgs, dota, watching films, positioning in games(shooters, csgo, bf4 - rare play) is not a high priority, but appreciated. A have asus g751jy, notebook, no dac, nothing and ss siberiav2, so i want better music experience, but allrounders as well. No music experience - beginner


----------



## joinmyparty

pacotaco said:


> Depends on what you want.
> 
> The HE400i (which is basically the HE400's successor but sounds more like the HE500) is more organic and natural.
> 
> ...


 
  
 not a big fan of very strong bass, i mean "BOOM BOOM in ur ears" find it a little bit annoying, but heard that "dark" headphones is good for games/fims. Heard that after th600's trebles my mind will be tired in films/music and they are sibilant? Generally listen dnb/vocal female/electronic, rap.. So rly dunno


----------



## PacoTaco

joinmyparty said:


> not a big fan of very strong bass, i mean "BOOM BOOM in ur ears" find it a little bit annoying, but heard that "dark" headphones is good for games/fims. Heard that after th600's trebles my mind will be tired in films/music and they are sibilant? Generally listen dnb/vocal female/electronic, rap.. So rly dunno


 
 Depends on who you ask. They were sibilant and fatiguing to me...but other people don't find them that way. You might like something akin to the Blackwood if you don't want booming bass. It has a lot of subbass, and goes very deep, but it isn't annoying or would sound annoying to someone who doesn't like a lot of bass quantity.


----------



## joinmyparty

pacotaco said:


> Depends on who you ask. They were sibilant and fatiguing to me...but other people don't find them that way. You might like something akin to the Blackwood if you don't want booming bass. It has a lot of subbass, and goes very deep, but it isn't annoying or would sound annoying to someone who doesn't like a lot of bass quantity.


 
 Also thinking about AKG712 PRO, Senh 650. How are they compare to x2 and he400? Better choice?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He400 has even more treble than the TH600, BTW.


----------



## Fegefeuer

TH-900 + Valhalla 2 on Low Gain is an excellent combination btw. Better than on the D2's amp, better than on the X7 as well as in better dynamics, lacking the coldness and slight harshness that appear on those designs. I have a strange sensivity issue with the TI6120 designs where dynamics are kinda lacking, leading to a somewhat loudness effect. Anyone else feeling this?
  
 Val 2 is a ******* good amp if you use the combination of high Z Beyerdynamics/Sennheisers and high sensitive Headphones like the Fostex. All set on PC. For console use X7 is still pretty good imo and I don't feel the need to unplug the Val 2 from the D2 and move it towards the TV. 
  
 I should try different Opamps on the X7 for a slight signature change.


----------



## BigBadWulf

I use this one and everytime I tried to use another microphone, my friends were not happy. So the soundquality is very good. With 60 cm distance.
http://support.logitech.com/product/usb-desktop-microphone
 But you will get more keyboadsounds. No problem for me, because I am a push to talk player (a relict from my IL2 Sturmovik times ^^).
 And it is really durable. I own it since... well... 2003 or 4?!?! (with the green light).


----------



## inseconds99

inseconds99 said:


> This is my short comparison from the time I owned the Sennheiser HD650, HD700 and HD800 simultaneously for nearly a week.  Sorry for the delay as I promised this a week or so ago, been very busy. This review will be based on 2 categories in order of importance to me (Comfort, Gaming). I will put the pros and cons of each headphone in each of the 2 categories and rate them on a scale from 1 to 5. *Here are a few things consider (disclaimer):*
> 
> ~ All my testing was done through a Sound Blaster X7 USB to PC, Windows Sound at 5.1, and SBX at between 70% and 100%
> ~ I am no way claiming I am an audiophile or any kind of sound professional
> ...


 
 Updated my previous post for all who are interested. Had some issues with my HD800 that were rectified. The bold edited section details the change.


----------



## henhowc

what's a good game to use to test for "competitive gaming" or just to put by dss dolby headphones + x2 to the test? doesn't necessarily need to be mp i guess. just something with good sound design that shows off that virtual surround can work well?
  
 the only shooter i own at the moment is COD: AW and the sound design is awful in this game. trying to listen for audio cues for positioning (affectionately named sound whoring lol) is useless in this game. i guess it might just also be part of the game design. i feel like if i send any time trying to concentrate to hear my surrounding i die and its better if i'm always on the move and essentially run and gunning... :\
  
 also, right now i have the following setup x2 > dss > optical to ps4. the problem is when i have to adjust the volume i need to get up and turn the nob on the dss. its especially annoying because i still haven't been able to get a set it and leave it volume setting. for example live from playstation streaming is for some reason stupidly loud and i need to turn down the volume whenever i watch twitch streams. does adding an in-line volume control between the x2 and dss affect sound quality? am also considering just buying a v-moda boompro because of the adjustment there. only issue would be cable length. i could of need the longer stock cable that the x2 comes with to have the dss connect comfortably to my x2.


----------



## joinmyparty

mad lust envy said:


> He400 has even more treble than the TH600, BTW.


 
 In your opinion is th600 better than akg712pro for dnb/electronic and next "value" step from x2? Did u hear th600 in movies/games?


----------



## Evshrug

dizcotic said:


> So, now my choices are...
> 1. Sony MDR-1A ($[COLOR=212121]235) in my country + Asus Xonar DGX sound card ($29)[/COLOR]
> [COLOR=212121]2. AKG K712 pro ($616) in my country + FiiO E09k ($115) or [/COLOR][COLOR=3E474B]SOUND CARD ASUS ESSENCE STX[/COLOR]​ ($138) or [COLOR=3E474B]SOUND CARD ASUS ESSENCE STX[/COLOR]​ II ($256)
> 
> ...



Hmm, that's quite a price spread, and I must admit I don't know much about STX version 1 vs version 2.
I'd recommend a middle-ground choice, AKG K612 + STX (the $138 one).
The K612 has less peaks than the K712 (until one day if you feel you want FR peaks), and is a worthy value to use for all purposes. They're quite comfy for gaming, because they are light weight, the pads touch your ears but don't touch the head, and the headband is flat and auto adjusts to your head shape. The sound is very high quality and not fatiguing like the K712's peaks can sometimes be (in long 4-hour gaming sessions), and the AKGs have a special "air" to them that makes soundstage and especially game surround sound very good, not boosted but IMO fun bass too with good extension for an open headphone.

The K612 really demands more amp power, so I recommend an STX (or Creative Sound Blaster ZxR, or Sound Blaster X7) because the amps built into those are better than the Asus DGX card. If you get one of the recommended soundcards you won't need the FiiO E09k.




fegefeuer said:


> TH-900 + Valhalla 2 on Low Gain is an excellent combination btw. Better than on the D2's amp, better than on the X7 as well as in better dynamics, lacking the coldness and slight harshness that appear on those designs. I have a strange sensivity issue with the TI6120 designs where dynamics are kinda lacking, leading to a somewhat loudness effect. Anyone else feeling this?
> 
> I should try different Opamps on the X7 for a slight signature change.



*raises hand*
Yup, I hear that a little. Don't really notice it till after playing for hours, but there is a bit of an edge. It's lessened when I use my K612, though I was considering trying other op amps too. I don't want to lose the detail and soundstage though, and I wonder if it needs that keen edge to keep that sense of imaging. If you try, let me know, because I'm moving in July and new purchases will be on hold for a little while.

I don't experience the "loudness" issue with volume compression (unless, you know, I turn volume compression on). I usually test this with "What are you going to do when you are done saving the world?" It's from Hans Zimmer's Man of Steel soundtrack album, the official soundtrack starts with a pretty quiet piano and orchestral section before exploding crescendo. I usually have to turn down the volume at the crescendo part with either the X7 or Schiit Bifrost uber + Tube amp setups. When gaming, sometimes I LIKE a little volume compression, but a light touch so it doesn't mess up soundstage too bad.


----------



## Yethal

henhowc said:


> what's a good game to use to test for "competitive gaming" or just to put by dss dolby headphones + x2 to the test? doesn't necessarily need to be mp i guess. just something with good sound design that shows off that virtual surround can work well?
> 
> the only shooter i own at the moment is COD: AW and the sound design is awful in this game. trying to listen for audio cues for positioning (affectionately named sound whoring lol) is useless in this game. i guess it might just also be part of the game design. i feel like if i send any time trying to concentrate to hear my surrounding i die and its better if i'm always on the move and essentially run and gunning... :\
> 
> also, right now i have the following setup x2 > dss > optical to ps4. the problem is when i have to adjust the volume i need to get up and turn the nob on the dss. its especially annoying because i still haven't been able to get a set it and leave it volume setting. for example live from playstation streaming is for some reason stupidly loud and i need to turn down the volume whenever i watch twitch streams. does adding an in-line volume control between the x2 and dss affect sound quality? am also considering just buying a v-moda boompro because of the adjustment there. only issue would be cable length. i could of need the longer stock cable that the x2 comes with to have the dss connect comfortably to my x2.


 
 P.T if You still have it.


----------



## Outkiz

hi.
  
 im a competitive player and im actually using asus rog ranger motherboard sound with siberia v2. I feel that i have good sound but i want go to the next level.
 im currently thinking in the ad700x(ofc) , akg q 701 and k701 and hd sennheiser 558 headphones. As soundcard asus xonar essence and phoebus solo. 
 My main concern is perfect sound and some confort on headphone.
  
 Pls help me


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

outkiz said:


> hi.
> 
> im a competitive player and im actually using asus rog ranger motherboard sound with siberia v2. I feel that i have good sound but i want go to the next level.
> im currently thinking in the ad700x(ofc) , akg q 701 and k701 and hd sennheiser 558 headphones. As soundcard asus xonar essence and phoebus solo.
> ...




If you want to up the sound quality stop using sound cards and buy an dac/amp I just ordered the schiit modi2 to go with my vali amp and akg q701s


----------



## Napalmhardcore

outkiz said:


> hi.
> 
> im a competitive player and im actually using asus rog ranger motherboard sound with siberia v2. I feel that i have good sound but i want go to the next level.
> im currently thinking in the ad700x(ofc) , akg q 701 and k701 and hd sennheiser 558 headphones. As soundcard asus xonar essence and phoebus solo.
> ...


 
 Is it virtual surround you are mostly interested in or is it pure sound quality you are looking to take to the next level?


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

napalmhardcore said:


> Is it virtual surround you are mostly interested in or is it pure sound quality you are looking to take to the next level?




A stand alone good dac/amp will give better sound direction in stereo than sound cards with virtual surround sound. I've looking into this a lot the past few weeks truth is a sound card just can't compete with a good dac/amp


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> A stand alone good dac/amp will give better sound direction in stereo than sound cards with virtual surround sound. I've looking into this a lot the past few weeks truth is a sound card just can't compete with a good dac/amp


 

 Whether or not stereo is superior to virtual surround is debatable and as with most things around here, down to preference. In terms of high quality DACs and amps, the sky is the limit really. I am probably not the most qualified person here to ask about high end DACs and amps, but the first thing others that mean to help you will need to know is your budget and what type of sound you prefer (analytical, warm, bassy etc). Also it would be helpful to know if portability is important.
  
 I can tell you from my time around these forums that for entry level, bang for your buck Fiios seem to be well regarded. Another brand you may wish to take a look at is Schiit Audio. But as I've said you may want to wait for someone else to chime in


----------



## RRod

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> A stand alone good dac/amp will give better sound direction in stereo than sound cards with virtual surround sound. I've looking into this a lot the past few weeks truth is a sound card just can't compete with a good dac/amp


 
  
 Don't most sound cards with virtual surround give you the option to turn the virtualization off? Headphones give pretty much a maximal channel separation, since the sound going to each ear doesn't reach the other ear in the same way it would with speakers. Since virtualization pretty much always involves some amount of channel mixing, it can't help but reduce the stereo image a bit, the benefit being the ability to move the sound forward, back, or wherever.
  
 The week links in an onboard sound card will typically be the headphone amp and noise/interference. The former is what it is; if the output impedance is too high or the power too low, the amp just won't drive certain cans well. The latter may or may not be an issue depending on its nature. The Realtek on my laptop certainly puts out more noise (via the line out) to my amp than my Modi, but the volume at which I can hear it would blow my ears out if music started playing. For normal listening, I hear absolutely no difference between the two (I keep the Modi hooked up because it looks cute with the Magni).


----------



## GVNMllN

http://www.head-fi.org/t/717192/custom-akg-v-moda-boom-pro-adapter-testers-wanted/225#post_11682959
  
 Might have found a solution for UK/EU people with AKG phones that want to use the Boompro.
 Details in the above post.


----------



## Yethal

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> A stand alone good dac/amp will give better sound direction in stereo than sound cards with virtual surround sound. I've looking into this a lot the past few weeks truth is a sound card just can't compete with a good dac/amp


 
 Most soundcards output virtual surround via optical so he can have best of both worlds.


----------



## GVNMllN

Thanks for the info Yethal
 I have a little Pro37 that I love for acoustic instruments, but I'll definitely give that a go if I get a Modmic.
  
 Took your advice on dropping the DSS out of the chain & giving the Mixamp a go on it's own again. Give it another chance.
 I channeled MacGyver & cut & glued some thin plastic to keep the Toslink in place. Maybe solder a new port on at some point, but it's fine for now.
 One thing I do find is that the Mixamp doesn't seem to handle low end as well as the DSS. (Explosions & the like seem to get a lot more distorted)
  
 But I do enjoy the simplicity, so I'll stick with it for a while.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Guys, I'm hoping someone can help the wifey and I with our headset conundrum. We split-screen in CoD several hours a day, and have been since MW3. On the PS3, our setup went like this: Two nice headphones (Sennheiser HD598 & Audio-Technica AD700), running into a spliter, into one of these http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419972129&sr=8-1&keywords=dss. For chat we would hang the Sony bluetooth mic on a string from the ceiling in between us, then output chat audio to the headphones. This worked great, and didn't pick up ambient noises, but apparently bluetooth mics no longer work on PS4.
  
  
  I was hoping to be able to use the small earbud mic that comes with the PS4, but Sony, in their infinite wisdom, decided not to give you the option to output chat volume to the "speakers" if you plug a mic into the controller.
  
  So I decided to just get a USB condenser mic, and I bought one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Samson-Meteorite-USB-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B00I9RK97K/ref=sr_1_12?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1419972584&sr=1-12. This sounded like crap, it was too sensitive and picked up the game sounds coming from our open backed headphones, not to mention the fan that was always running in the room (can't game without it). We never had this problem with the bluetooth mic that hung in the exact same position, so I guess there was some noise cancelling involved. I looked at some other options, but finally gave up and bought two Sony Gold headsets.
  
 At first these were okay, but lately the clamping force on my large head has become unbearable. I also really miss the far superior sound quality and the REAL surround sound that actually worked. The worst part is the extremely glitchy nature of using two of these headsets with chat; it always seems that one of us can't be heard, and we have to constantly reset one or the other, and back out of the chat room.

 So we have two options: find a mic that actually works, or find a more comfortable headset, I'm just not sure how other headsets integrate chat and if it would work for split-screeners.
  
 I realize that split-screeners are probably ~.5% of the playerbase, but I'm really hoping someone out here will have some insight into our problem. Apologies for the War & Peace novel.


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Guys, I'm hoping someone can help the wifey and I with our headset conundrum. We split-screen in CoD several hours a day, and have been since MW3. On the PS3, our setup went like this: Two nice headphones (Sennheiser HD598 & Audio-Technica AD700), running into a spliter, into one of these http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419972129&sr=8-1&keywords=dss. For chat we would hang the Sony bluetooth mic on a string from the ceiling in between us, then output chat audio to the headphones. This worked great, and didn't pick up ambient noises, but apparently bluetooth mics no longer work on PS4.
> 
> 
> * I was hoping to be able to use the small earbud mic that comes with the PS4, but Sony, in their infinite wisdom, decided not to give you the option to output chat volume to the "speakers" if you plug a mic into the controller.*


 
 They did, at least my PS4 can output to speakers
  
 Have You tried powered active splitter from astro? It transmits both game sound but also amicrophone between the two pairs of connected headphones so it's basically everything You need?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> A stand alone good dac/amp will give better sound direction in stereo than sound cards with virtual surround sound. I've looking into this a lot the past few weeks truth is a sound card just can't compete with a good dac/amp




No. Just. No.

Sounds like typical audiophile snobbery.

No. No.

I'll take a $20 virtual surround device, than a $10000 stereo dac/amp if I'm gaming. 10 out of 10 times.

Once you adjust to proper virtual surround, playing in stereo is like having blinders on.

It is the rough equivalent of going from stereo to mono.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> No. Just. No.
> 
> Sounds like typical audiophile snobbery.
> 
> ...




Truth. Don't buy into that teksyndicate YouTube video. Virtual surround gaming is amazing once setup correctly.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

> They did, at least my PS4 can output to speakers
> Have You tried powered active splitter from astro? It transmits both game sound but also amicrophone between the two pairs of connected headphones so it's basically everything You need?


 
  
 As far as I'm aware, if the PS4 detects a headset or a mic with a headphone port (for monitoring), not just a mic, it disables the ability to output to speakers. I read a discussion about it earlier today. Someone mentioned that they were trying to use a Sampson Go mic and it wouldn't let them output to speakers.
  
 Sony took a few backsteps with the PS4 audio setup options. Still hoping for the ability to select either optical, HDMI or both like the PS3 did.


----------



## FeedYourHead

napalmhardcore said:


> As far as I'm aware, if the PS4 detects a headset or a mic with a headphone port (for monitoring), not just a mic, it disables the ability to output to speakers. I read a discussion about it earlier today.




It could be that the solution I need is really simple, I'm just kinda slow: are you saying that if I plug a mic ONLY into the controller, (something like a modmic antlion or whatever), and not a mic/earphone combo (like that crap that came with ps4), that the ps4 sees the difference, and sends chat audio out thru your headphones?

God, i hope it's that easy.




yethal said:


> They did, at least my PS4 can output to speakers
> 
> Have You tried powered active splitter from astro? It transmits both game sound but also amicrophone between the two pairs of connected headphones so it's basically everything You need?




This is the only review i could find:

"This thing is horrible. DO NOT buy it. The party chat audio it records comes out very very very quiet. Also the sound playing back through the headset has a lot of static."

I'm wondering if this thing even works with ps4? I don't see any way for it to send chat to the ps4, but the info on their site is nill, and i cant tell what inputs/outputs it has.

Either way, the DSS was surprisingly powerful enough to power both headphones without distortion.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

feedyourhead said:


> It could be that the solution I need is really simple, I'm just kinda slow: are you saying that if I plug a mic ONLY into the controller, (something like a modmic antlion or whatever), and not a mic/earphone combo (like that crap that came with ps4), that the ps4 sees the difference, and sends chat audio out thru your headphones?
> 
> God, i hope it's that easy.


 
 I just so happen to have a Modmic. Give me a few minutes and I'll confirm for you


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Bad news I'm afraid. The DS4 does not seem to detect the Modmic. I think it is being detected as a set of headphones instead. I think they only have it set up for headphone or headset use, not as a mic input.
  
 The discussion I read earlier, I'm guessing they must have been talking about USB microphones. Unfortunately the options for PS4 are a bit limited. I'd imagine the hardware is capable of sending the audio, but without an option in the menu to tell the PS4 it's a mic and not a pair of headphones you're stuffed basically.
  
 I'll have a bit of a think and see if I can come up with any bright ideas.


----------



## Evshrug

The jack on the dual shock 4 is a TRRS Jack (same as the smartphone one with three black rings). You need to get a small adapter that splits TRRS into TRS jacks, one for mic an one for chat audio. Mad did some testing and apparently there's a way to plug in the splitter + mic and still get game audio, but I never got chat audio to play through "speakers" that way. I got sick of trying to make an analogue connection work (I like hearing my friends, tho if I was solo-queuing CoD or Streaming I wouldn't mind not being able to hear chat), so I went the USB mic route.

I got a Blue Microphones "Snowball" because it was a cartioid mic, aka unidirectional (tho sounds reverb off the walls so you can still hear a quiet version of other sounds). I like it, tho I don't know if it would be "perfect" with a fan running and background stuff, but Stillhart, Mad, and Axel don't complain that my headphones are leaking into the mic. So, that softball-sized mic works for me. I have my USB mic plugged in, my monitor connected by HDMI, and my Creative X7 connected by Optical, and all is well. You could substitute a DSS for the X7, that was my setup before.

Sony's camera has a built in mic too... It's "okay." Didn't Sony release a Bluetooth mic headset for the PS4? They definitely disabled 3rd party headsets.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Didn't Sony release a Bluetooth mic headset for the PS4? They definitely disabled 3rd party headsets.


 
 I think they may have enabled their PS3 one through an update and I think have a new one too (off the top of my head). Problem is that you can't pick what input you want to go to what output. If it detects a headset, the output to TV option disappears.
  
 FeedYourHead, I think the best option may be to seek out a USB mic. That way, theoretically you should be able to go back to playing how you did before (does your DSS work OK with PS4?). I just don't know what mic to recommend. The PS4 camera wouldn't be a bad way to go either.


----------



## Evshrug

DSS definitely worked with PS4, I used it for almost a year. You need USB for power, but if you connect the DSS to PS4 USB then it passes along the mic input (I could plug my snowball ->> DSS->> PS4).

Definitely want a cardioid mic, those help narrow the direction, though some work better than others (mods might help too?). I looked for a super cheap Logitech one but ended up going the other route.

I used a Kinect placed right next to me a few times when I gamed at my girlfriend's family's house, my friend (who loved turtle beach) had no complaints, but those Mics suck if you have ambient background noise. Basically, the closer you can have it and the lower you can set the mic sensitivity, the better.

If you can score a Recon3D USB, that has USB to the PS4 and you can plug in any analog mic (like a $3 lapel mic, or $40 Modmic) into it and have an instant solution. You can also use the extension cable to combine chat audio from a controller (XBone or PS4) with the game audio, for the cleanest setup. Stillhart uses his BoomPro with his Recon3D's that way. USB chat to the Recon3D was definitely the cleanest setup, but those units are mostly only to be found on eBay now.


----------



## Yethal

Plug the TRRS splitter into the controller
Plug the microphone into the mic end of the splitter
Boot up the console
Go to Settings/Devices/Audio devices
Notice both input and output device being set to "Headset connected to controller"
Switch output device to "TV or amplifier"
Profit
  
  


napalmhardcore said:


> Bad news I'm afraid. The DS4 does not seem to detect the Modmic. I think it is being detected as a set of headphones instead. I think they only have it set up for headphone or headset use, not as a mic input.
> 
> The discussion I read earlier, I'm guessing they must have been talking about USB microphones. Unfortunately the options for PS4 are a bit limited. I'd imagine the hardware is capable of sending the audio, but without an option in the menu to tell the PS4 it's a mic and not a pair of headphones you're stuffed basically.
> 
> I'll have a bit of a think and see if I can come up with any bright ideas.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Plug the TRRS splitter into the controller
> Plug the microphone into the mic end of the splitter
> Boot up the console
> Go to Settings/Devices/Audio devices
> ...


 

 By gum you're right! I did think about it but just figured it wouldn't work.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> By gum you're right! I did think about it but just figured it wouldn't work.


 
 Sony added it in an update 2.0 or 2.50.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hope FeedYourHead hasn't ordered something already. Normally I'd be more thorough but I'm tired. On that note, I'm going to try and get some sleep.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

mad lust envy said:


> No. Just. No.
> 
> Sounds like typical audiophile snobbery.
> 
> ...




Well maybe in your opinion but my modi2 arrived yesterday and I tried it with ps4 along with vali amp and q701 and it was so much better for positional cues than the mixamp vali and q701s and I play competitive shooters like cod and bfh at a high level so soundwhoreing is key for me and I noticed a big leap in sound quality the past two days. So IMO a dac/amp is miles better in sereo than virtual surround sound.


----------



## Yethal

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Well maybe in your opinion but my modi2 arrived yesterday and I tried it with ps4 along with vali amp and q701 and it was so much better for positional cues than the mixamp vali and q701s and I play competitive shooters like cod and bfh at a high level so soundwhoreing is key for me and I noticed a big leap in sound quality the past two days. So IMO a dac/amp is miles better in sereo than virtual surround sound.


 
 The playback quality is higher, of course due to the better quality of the dac and amp, but if You really think the positioning is better in stereo than in virtual surround then You probably had it set up wrong the entire time.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

yethal said:


> The playback quality is higher, of course due to the better quality of the dac and amp, but if You really think the positioning is better in stereo than in virtual surround then You probably had it set up wrong the entire time.




Lol I had it setup correct. I suppose different people just like different things.

 My friend went to OZ for a month and let me use his recon3d USB while he was away and I read mad lust envys review on it and seen he prefers Dolby surround sound over sbx or thx can't remember exactly what it's called but I swear the recon was much much better for positional direction than the Dolby mixamp so much so I tried to buy 1 right away but at the time they were double the price they usually are on Amazon so I just left it since I new I was switching to PC gaming soon.

 So again a lot of these things are down to personal preference but I stand by what I said dac/amp is miles better than virtual surround sound for gaming.


----------



## Yethal

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Lol I had it setup correct. I suppose different people just like different things.
> 
> My friend went to OZ for a month and let me use his recon3d USB while he was away and I read mad lust envys review on it and seen he prefers Dolby surround sound over sbx or thx can't remember exactly what it's called but I swear the recon was much much better for positional direction than the Dolby mixamp so much so I tried to buy 1 right away but at the time they were double the price they usually are on Amazon so I just left it since I new I was switching to PC gaming soon.
> 
> So again a lot of these things are down to personal preference but I stand by what I said dac/amp is miles better than virtual surround sound for gaming.


 
 I had a Recon 3D for a brief time, I bought it for about 30 bucks, played with it for a while then gave away to my PC gaming friend who uses it to this day. One advantage Recon 3d has over Mixamp is that it works pretty great with PC.
  
 I tried playing on Optimodi/Magni plugged straight into the console but even Battlefield's own virtualization (Headphone preset) sounded weak compared even to the Mixamp.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Geez, guys, I never expected so much help!!! A huge thank you to Napalm, Evshrug, and Yethal! I'm so sick of fighting with the PS4 chat and these garbage Sony Golds, it's been a nightmare and made it to where I hardly even want to play anymore. Can't believe I spent ~$170 for such a huge downgrade and headache.
  
 Anyone want to buy 2 sets of lightly used Sony Golds? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  
 Yethal, this is what i need, right?
 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OAQRITQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATD293HIUAW1A
  
 Are there any cheaper alternatives to the Antlion? It'd suck to have to spend another $90 on just mics, especially when I've already wasted so much money on the Golds and the Samson Meteorite (should've sent the Meteorite back, but got lazy and missed the return date). I know there's the VModa Boom, but I don't think that will work for either of our headphones, ATH-AD700 and HD-598. Anyone have one of these?
 http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-Zm-Mic1-Sensitivity-Headphone-Microphone/dp/B00029MTMQ/
  
  
  
  
  
 Also, saying a stereo DAC is better than Dolby Headphone for FPS gaming is silly, that's akin to saying stereo speakers give better surround effects than a 5.1 system. I really don't see how that's open to personal preferance, it's not like a frequency response on a give set of headphones where everyone hears it differently. Stereo sound will NOT let you know when someone is behind you, I don't care how expensive your DAC is.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

feedyourhead said:


> Geez, guys, I never expected so much help!!! A huge thank you to Napalm, Evshrug, and Yethal! I'm so sick of fighting with the PS4 chat and these garbage Sony Golds, it's been a nightmare and made it to where I hardly even want to play anymore. Can't believe I spent ~$170 for such a huge downgrade and headache.
> 
> Anyone want to buy 2 sets of lightly used Sony Golds?
> 
> ...




 lol the positional audio is coded into almost all games now so the virtual surround sound that people add to it can actually make the sound worse. I don't know why you would reply to a topic you clearly don't know anything about.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Huh? Virtual Surround Sound is nothing like Dolby Headphone, which only works with headphones, and uses a HRTF algorythim to transform 5.1 audio to something that sounds nearly identical through headphones.
  
 Positional audio is coded into all games? What? Sure, positional audio cues work great, with 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS, and a five speaker setup. Positional cues are CERTAINLY not in the stereo output of any console game I'm aware of, maybe PC, idk. The ONLY way I'm aware of to get 3d positional cues through stereo headphones is a 5.1 mixdown to Dolby Headphone, though I think maybe Yamaha or Denon has a proprietary clone of DH in some of their receivers. 
  
  
  
 As far as me "not knowing anything" about this topic, just because I'm asking about PS4 hardware/mic integration issues, doesn't mean I'm lacking knowledge when it comes to this topic in general, although it appears you may be. The "man" himself said you were full of bologna.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

feedyourhead said:


> Huh? Virtual Surround Sound is nothing like Dolby Headphone, which only works with headphones, and uses a HRTF algorythim to transform 5.1 audio to something that sounds nearly identical through headphones.
> 
> Positional audio is coded into all games? What? Sure, positional audio cues work great, with 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS, and a five speaker setup. Positional cues are CERTAINLY not in the stereo output of any console game I'm aware of, maybe PC, idk. The ONLY way I'm aware of to get 3d positional cues through stereo headphones is a 5.1 mixdown to Dolby Headphone, though I think maybe Yamaha or Denon has a proprietary clone of DH in some of their receivers.
> 
> ...




Positional cues are coded into almost every fps game out there and I'm talking about dac/amp stereo compaired to virtual surround sound try to keep up. I myself use a schiit mod2/vali with q701 headphones and the positional cue are more clear and better than using Astros mixamp pro for surround sound. The sound quality is not even close. I play in no respawn tournaments about 3-4 time a week where we regularly play for up to £1600 a tournemnet so postiional cue are vital for me as your usually moving about very slow waiting to hear someone walk or run. Game developers design there games to be played in stereo so when you add a virtual surround sound device ie mixamp dss or recon its not the way the games ment to be heard.


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Yethal, this is what i need, right?
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OAQRITQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATD293HIUAW1A
> 
> Are there any cheaper alternatives to the Antlion? It'd suck to have to spend another $90 on just mics, especially when I've already wasted so much money on the Golds and the Samson Meteorite (should've sent the Meteorite back, but got lazy and missed the return date). I know there's the VModa Boom, but I don't think that will work for either of our headphones, ATH-AD700 and HD-598. Anyone have one of these?
> ...


 
 Yup, this adapter is exactly what You need.
  
 As for the BoomPro they should work with 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter like this one
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-2-5mm-Male-to-3-5mm-Female-Stereo-Mic-Audio-Earphone-Jack-Adapter-Converter-/360972642069?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item540ba56715
  
 Looks like this:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






  
 AD700 would require a modification to the headphones since they do not come stock with a removable cable.
  
 Stereo DAC can and will actually work better, but only with games that have some sort of virtualization already implemented with game code (like Thief 4) , or if said DAC is plugged into a soundcard which outputs already preprocessed virtual surround. But there are very little games that have their own sort of virtualization implemented for a very simple reason. It costs more money to implement, and people who care about virtual surround already have hardware capable of processing 5.1/7.1 signal. That way the devs only need to create one stereo Mix and one Surround mix. And actually, we are hearing the games in the way they were meant to be heard, since we're using developer designed surround mix and play it back on our headphones.


----------



## fullmoon280

if i remove te locking mechanism on the hd 598 could i use that 2.5 to 3.5 adapter with the boompro?i assume i will be able to drive the headphones and the boompro just fine with a amp like i could with the modmic?


----------



## Yethal

fullmoon280 said:


> if i remove te locking mechanism on the hd 598 could i use that 2.5 to 3.5 adapter with the boompro?i assume i will be able to drive the headphones and the boompro just fine with a amp like i could with the modmic?


 
 Yup, see the picture in the spoiler tag. No problem with driving them straight out of mixamp (at least I didn't have any)


----------



## fullmoon280

how does the vmoda handle noise cancellation compared to the modmic uni?


----------



## FeedYourHead

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Positional cues are coded into almost every fps game out there and I'm talking about dac/amp stereo compaired to virtual surround sound try to keep up. Game developers design there games to be played in stereo so when you add a virtual surround sound device ie mixamp dss or recon its not the way the games ment to be heard.


 
 Telling me to "keep up" when you're the one missing the point, how cute. Apparently you're clueless as to the difference between virtual surround sound and Dolby Headphone, which is probably why you had no luck with your mixamp. Allow me to explain: virtual surround sound is when a stereo source is modified with with reverbs to sound more spacious, but usually sounds like garbage. It does absolutely nothing to help positional audio cues, so please quit bringing it up. Dolby Headphone is an algorithm used to process 5 discreet channels (which has WAY MORE information on where your enemies are than any stereo signal could ever hope to contain) in a way that your brain can sense front to rear soundfield (just like 5.1), not just side to side.
  
 Multichannel audio formats ARE the way the devs meant the games to be heard, Dolby Headphone is just making that possible with two speakers on your head. Again, this is NOT virtual surround sound, the level of three dimensional spaciousness is NOT POSSIBLE from stereo speakers, unless they are on your ears. Please google Head Related Transfer Function if you still don't understand.
  
 I would have thought someone posting in here would at least bother to read the first post.
  
  
 As to "positional cues being coded into every FPS", at least back this up with some links, please. I'm unaware of any games that do this, especially consoles. For all I know,it could be quite common, if so I apologize; but even if it were, do you realize you're basically arguing that "Dolby Headphone sux cuz my game already does Dolby Headphone"? Also, if someone were to play this mix through stereo speakers (not headphones), it wouldn't sound nearly as good as an honest stereo mix, so I'd imagine it would have to be a toggle-able setting in-game.
  
  
  
 I hope I'm being plain enough, I know it's a lot to take in.
  
  
  


yethal said:


> Stereo DAC can and will actually work better, but only with games that have some sort of virtualization already implemented with game code (like Thief 4) , or if said DAC is plugged into a soundcard which outputs already preprocessed virtual surround. But there are very little games that have their own sort of virtualization implemented for a very simple reason. It costs more money to implement, and people who care about virtual surround already have hardware capable of processing 5.1/7.1 signal. That way the devs only need to create one stereo Mix and one Surround mix. And actually, we are hearing the games in the way they were meant to be heard, since we're using developer designed surround mix and play it back on our headphones.


 
  
 Exactly, except for the difference between virtual surround sound, and Dolby Headphone; IMHO a distinct difference. But I think we're on the same page.
  
  
  
  
  
 Thanks a TON for the link for that adapter!!! I may just retire my AD700 and grab another HD598, at $150 it's hard to pass up (I think I paid like $280 back in the day).


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Exactly, except for the difference between virtual surround sound, and Dolby Headphone; IMHO a distinct difference. But I think we're on the same page.
> 
> 
> Thanks a TON for the link for that adapter!!! I may just retire my AD700 and grab another HD598, at $150 it's hard to pass up (I think I paid like $280 back in the day).


 
 Well Virtual Surround is a concept and Dolby Headphone is one if implementations of said concept. As for the HD598 I bought mine for equivalent of 70$ and it was 70$ well spent.


----------



## PacoTaco

feedyourhead said:


> Telling me to "keep up" when you're the one missing the point, how cute. Apparently you're clueless as to the difference between virtual surround sound and Dolby Headphone, which is probably why you had no luck with your mixamp. Allow me to explain: virtual surround sound is when a stereo source is modified with with reverbs to sound more spacious, but usually sounds like garbage. It does absolutely nothing to help positional audio cues, so please quit bringing it up. Dolby Headphone is an algorithm used to process 5 discreet channels (which has WAY MORE information on where your enemies are than any stereo signal could ever hope to contain) in a way that your brain can sense front to rear soundfield (just like 5.1), not just side to side.
> 
> Multichannel audio formats ARE the way the devs meant the games to be heard, Dolby Headphone is just making that possible with two speakers on your head. Again, this is NOT virtual surround sound, the level of three dimensional spaciousness is NOT POSSIBLE from stereo speakers, unless they are on your ears. Please google Head Related Transfer Function if you still don't understand.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Depends on the dolby headphone implementation. I found the one out of the astro mixamp is better than the Asus soundcards (which adds a ****ton of revurb,) but my Mobo's SBX processing is better than both. Honestly, a sound card is better than a mobo and the Sound Blaster X7 is better than everything I just mentioned (and I find myself buying it a second time.)


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> Depends on the dolby headphone implementation. I found the one out of the astro mixamp is better than the Asus soundcards (which adds a ****ton of revurb,) but my Mobo's SBX processing is better than both. Honestly, a sound card is better than a mobo and the Sound Blaster X7 is better than everything I just mentioned (and I find myself buying it a second time.)


 

 It's not a matter of implementation it's the matter of Dolby Headphone Mode (it has three distinct modes of operation, each sounding slightly different, Mixamp ues the one that balances virtualization/natural sound)
  
 What made You buy another X7?


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> It's not a matter of implementation it's the matter of Dolby Headphone Mode (it has three distinct modes of operation, each sounding slightly different, Mixamp ues the one that balances virtualization/natural sound)
> 
> What made You buy another X7?


 
 I sold it because I thought I could live without SBX and just use my NFB-28 through optical from the DGX or my MOBO. Unfortunately, I hate the Asus's Dolby Headphone (which didn't work for me very well in the first place...I'm one of those weird people that it never worked for so all I heard was revurb) and my MOBO....was less than perfect at times. Way less. The X7 was just an easier all-in-one and could actually drive my planars, so I'd rather end up using that than my NFB-28 (which I'm now sellling.)


----------



## Yethal

pacotaco said:


> I sold it because I thought I could live without SBX and just use my NFB-28 through optical from the DGX or my MOBO. Unfortunately, I hate the Asus's Dolby Headphone (which didn't work for me very well in the first place...I'm one of those weird people that it never worked for so all I heard was revurb) and my MOBO....was less than perfect at times. Way less. The X7 was just an easier all-in-one and could actually drive my planars, so I'd rather end up using that than my NFB-28 (which I'm now sellling.)


 

 Well, You can always plug the NFB into the optical out of the X7 and wait for Creative to add SBX output to optical and line out.


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Well, You can always plug the NFB into the optical out of the X7 and wait for Creative to add SBX output to optical and line out.


 
 I was hoping for that for months, but it never happened. I'm kinda giving up on that pipe-dream.
  
 I'm not listening music near the amount I use to, so I can take the slight hit in quality. It's not as much as you'd think.


----------



## FeedYourHead

yethal said:


> Well Virtual Surround is a concept and Dolby Headphone is one if implementations of said concept.


 
 Agreed, though when someone says virtual surround sound, it conjures up thoughts of crap like dolby pro logic, which i would never listen to for a second over stereo, and gives no real surround effect, while dolby headphone and other HRTF algorithims are a night and day difference to stereo and other many virtual surrounds.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Yethal, are there any newcomers that are worthy of a look, and comparable to the AD700x and Sennheiser in the under $150 price range? My buddy's looking for an upgrade from his tired px21's.
  
  
 Also, he'd like to stay under $100 if possible. Are the AD500x's an okay choice, and what would he be missing out on vs AD700x?


----------



## Evshrug

feedyourhead said:


> Geez, guys, I never expected so much help!!! A huge thank you to Napalm, Evshrug, and Yethal! I'm so sick of fighting with the PS4 chat and these garbage Sony Golds, it's been a nightmare and made it to where I hardly even want to play anymore. Can't believe I spent ~$170 for such a huge downgrade and headache.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Instead of the zalman (which isn't going to be much better than the issues you report with the Meteorite), look at the lapel clip on Mad linked in the first post. Like $3. He used to order a Deal Xtreme one that took 2 weeks (or longer) I arrive, I think he updated his link to the Amazon available ones that ship quick. HDE or Neweer brand. I have 3.


 Mr11 is correct in saying a separate DAC/amp will outperform the Mixamp for sound cues, but everyone else is taking into account that surround processors can make cardinal directions from the home theater surround sound outputs that most games AAA first person games are optimized for.


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Yethal, are there any newcomers that are worthy of a look, and comparable to the AD700x and Sennheiser in the under $150 price range? My buddy's looking for an upgrade from his tired px21's.
> 
> 
> Also, he'd like to stay under $100 if possible. Are the AD500x's an okay choice, and what would he be missing out on vs AD700x?


 
 Check out the first post. It's Mad's guide and he probably heard more headphones than any of us will ever do so his recommendation will be much more valuable than mine. As for the AD500 You'd have to ask some of the more experienced people on this thread.


evshrug said:


> Mr11 is correct in saying a separate DAC/amp will outperform the Mixamp for sound cues, but everyone else is taking into account that surround processors can make cardinal directions from the home theater surround sound outputs that most games AAA first person games are optimized for.


 
 By outperforming You mean the SQ of the cues or their accuracy? Because if simple dac/amp combo has more accurate cues than all of our surround devices then why do we even bother with them?


----------



## FeedYourHead

evshrug said:


> Instead of the zalman (which isn't going to be much better than the issues you report with the Meteorite), look at the lapel clip on Mad linked in the first post. Like $3. He used to order a Deal Xtreme one that took 2 weeks (or longer) I arrive, I think he updated his link to the Amazon available ones that ship quick. HDE or Neweer brand. I have 3.


 
  
 Thanks, I'll give that a try!
  
 Hmm, I found this, it seems to get better reviews than the neweer, wonder if it's worth the extra coin?
 http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ECMCS3-Omnidirectional-Stereo-Microphone/dp/B0058MJX4O/
  


yethal said:


> By outperforming You mean the SQ of the cues...


 
 I'm pretty sure that's what he meant.
  
 Also, I don't think the ad500x was touched on in the OP, but I'm sure its been discussed in this thread somewhere. If only the search function was worthwhile...


----------



## PurpleAngel

pacotaco said:


> I sold it because I thought I could live without SBX and just use my NFB-28 through optical from the DGX or my MOBO. Unfortunately, I hate the Asus's Dolby Headphone (which didn't work for me very well in the first place...I'm one of those weird people that it never worked for so all I heard was revurb) and my MOBO....was less than perfect at times. Way less. The X7 was just an easier all-in-one and could actually drive my planars, so I'd rather end up using that than my NFB-28 (which I'm now sellling.)


 
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before you installed the DGX?
 Did you max out the volume setting on the computer, for feeding a optical audio signal to the NFB-28?
  
 Why not just replace your Xonar DGX with the Sound Blaster Z (used $75) and get a better external DAC and amp?


----------



## PacoTaco

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before you installed the DGX?
> Did you max out the volume setting on the computer, for feeding a optical audio signal to the NFB-28?
> 
> Why not just replace your Xonar DGX with the Sound Blaster Z (used $75) and get a better external DAC and amp?


 
 Yes and yes.
  
 The NFB-28 is an amazing balanced DAC and Amp (and since I spent 750+ on it, there's not much going up unless I just want to be plain broke.) However, the X7 is amazing also (for the price, that is.) The sound is going through a DSP before it gets to the DAC anyway, so I may as well for the best DSP outside the crazy expensive ones. I've owned both of them at the same time before, and using the NFB-28 over the X7 was minimal in differences of sound quality regardless (which is what I find in most Sigma-Delta DACs.)
  
 I'm also buying a G-sync IPS panel to replace my ultra-wide, so selling the NFB-28 for X7 gives me some money for that as well. If I ever want a good DAC/Amp combo in the future for outside of gaming, the Geek Pulse is suppose to ship out in a couple months regardless.
  
 The amp for the X7 is pretty serviceable. I was able to drive LCD 2's, ZMF Vibros and Blackwood, HE560, the T1, and the Alpha Prime out of it fine. Hell, it has speaker taps if I ever get crazy enough to want the HE6. If they ever get off their ass about the line-out thing, I can also get a better amp in the future.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I'm back! Though this time I'm drunk.
  
 As for the virtual surround (and I'm sorry to undermine your argument FeedYourHead, but any digitally processed combination of inputs mixed to a stereo output is), as I said in my first reply to a comment which I thought might start such a debate, down to preference.
  
 I'm personally more interested in experiencing new things, hence I've been striving to experience different implementations of in game audio. Maybe stereo works better for some and virtual surround works better for others. I honestly think this is a frivolous argument.


----------



## Yethal

On a completely unrelated note, it would be nice if You guys managed to tone down on the passive-aggressive posts. There is no need to get hostile over something as small as positional cues. Just saying.


----------



## burritoboy9984

feedyourhead said:


> Yethal, are there any newcomers that are worthy of a look, and comparable to the AD700x and Sennheiser in the under $150 price range? My buddy's looking for an upgrade from his tired px21's.
> 
> 
> Also, he'd like to stay under $100 if possible. Are the AD500x's an okay choice, and what would he be missing out on vs AD700x?




Philips Shp9500. Has a detachable 3.5mm jack so you can attach a boompro. I actually prefer them over my X1's for positioning, but the X1's are more immersive for sure. You can normally find them in the $50-$70 range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The embedded 'headphone surround' modes in "every FPS these days" is complete and utter garbage in terms of accurately positioning audio cues compared to Stuff like Dolby Headphone and SBX. It is essentially expanded stereo, nothing more.

And I hope to god that you guys aren't enabling these headphone surround modes in ADDITION to stuff like Dolby headphone/SBX.

Yeah, you get cues...just weak as all hell left/right cues with very little in the way of differentiating between front and back. Stereo gaming is a cancer to anything that isn't in a 2D plane, like many indies.

I'd like to know when if ever you can hear audio cues from only ONE ear in real life. Answer? Never. Hence why stereo gaming is BS if you have the option of proper virtual surround like SBX and Dolby Headphone, which puts all audio information in an actual 3D headspace...

Funny how people call virtual surround 'fake', when in stereo, sound effects may only come out on one side., which is the fakest form of accurately representing audio.

In case some of you missed it, my guide is almost entirely based off how these headphones perform in VIRTUAL SURROUND, not stereo, because quite honestly, there is very little benefit going from one headphone to another in stereo, when it comes to positional cues. You hear mostly left/right singular cues, with very little front/back. Everything goes through your head, not around it, hence why it'd be impossible to rate competitive performance on headphones in plain stereo, as they all sound flat and lacking in dimensionality.

No stereo dac/amp is going to transform ANY headphone into accurately depicting soundstage, when the sound is limited to left/right.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> By outperforming You mean the SQ of the cues or their accuracy? Because if simple dac/amp combo has more accurate cues than all of our surround devices then why do we even bother with them?



Yes, I mean that simply the sound quality of a "cue" like a reload or grenade pin can be more distinct with a nice DAC and amp, but my phone refreshed the page and I thought I didn't get to post my reply, so I didn't edit to finish. I was going to follow up by saying that headphone surround processing is needed to actually give a direction to a cue rather than simple left-right panning you get with vanilla Stereo.


----------



## Evshrug

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> You really are slow aren't you. I'll say it one last time just for you... Keeping up ? I hope so... Please don't bother replying with more silly comments.



These parts of your post are REALLY going to get the community to back you and take you seriously. It's also clear that you don't understand the relationship between Dolby Headphone and virtual surround, nor did you read the first post. You're replying to us in this thread about virtual surround, but we're blocking you, so... Bye!




feedyourhead said:


> Yethal, are there any newcomers that are worthy of a look, and comparable to the AD700x and Sennheiser in the under $150 price range? My buddy's looking for an upgrade from his tired px21's.
> 
> Also, he'd like to stay under $100 if possible. Are the AD500x's an okay choice, and what would he be missing out on vs AD700x?



Well, the AD500 had smaller drivers than the AD700 and wasn't known for having Audio Technica's trademark air and soundstage special sauce. I haven't heard the x-branded new lineup, but I assume the AD500x is still using the smaller, lesser, more "average" driver. If you get anything in their lineup below the AD700x, in my opinion, you could just as easily buy any other headphone.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yes, I mean that simply the sound quality of a "cue" like a reload or grenade pin can be more distinct with a nice DAC and amp, but my phone refreshed the page and I thought I didn't get to post my reply, so I didn't edit to finish. I was going to follow up by saying that headphone surround processing is needed to actually give a direction to a cue rather than simple left-right panning you get with vanilla Stereo.


 
 Whew, for a moment You got me worried here.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

evshrug said:


> These parts of your post are REALLY going to get the community to back you and take you seriously. It's also clear that you don't understand the relationship between Dolby Headphone and virtual surround, nor did you read the first post. You're replying to us in this thread about virtual surround, but we're blocking you, so... Bye!
> Well, the AD500 had smaller drivers than the AD700 and wasn't known for having Audio Technica's trademark air and soundstage special sauce. I haven't heard the x-branded new lineup, but I assume the AD500x is still using the smaller, lesser, more "average" driver. If you get anything in their lineup below the AD700x, in my opinion, you could just as easily buy any other headphone.




Lol I'm a grown adult I don't need or want anyone to back me. This all started a few pages back, some guy asked what's better a dac/amp or surround sound and I gave my honest opinion and I also remember saying it was just my opinion. I fully understand there's going to be tons of people out there that don't prefer what I do but that's why forums are great because you get to see different opinions. Just like I think the majority prefer Astros mixamp over sound blaster sbx but again if I was asked I would give my opinion for sbx because it's what I honestly believe is the better.


----------



## Yethal

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Lol I'm a grown adult I don't need or want anyone to back me. This all started a few pages back, some guy asked what's better a dac/amp or surround sound and I gave my honest opinion and I also remember saying it was just my opinion. I fully understand there's going to be tons of people out there that don't prefer what I do but that's why forums are great because you get to see different opinions. Just like I think the majority prefer Astros mixamp over sound blaster sbx but again if I was asked I would give my opinion for sbx because it's what I honestly believe is the better.


 
 And it would've been okay if You weren't so aggresive.


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

yethal said:


> And it would've been okay if You weren't so aggresive.




Your probably right in what your saying and if I did offend feed feedyourbrain I think the persons name is then I apologise. I just felt he was jumping on me for giving a opinion he didn't agree with.


----------



## AxelCloris

Ok folks, let's take this discussion to PM and keep the thread on topic please.


----------



## Yethal

yt-mreleven1181 said:


> Your probably right in what your saying and if I did offend feed feedyourbrain I think the persons name is then I apologise. I just felt he was jumping on me for giving a opinion he didn't agree with.


 
 None of us do.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Ok folks, let's take this discussion to PM and keep the thread on topic please.




I've been playing ESOTU on the PS4 with the loaner PM-3 and have forgotten to acknowledge real life for the last 4 days. Isolation is ridiculously good, at the expense of soundstage, of course. Those group dungeons are a blast. Getting my ars handed to me in Cyrodil, though...


----------



## YT-MrEleven1181

yethal said:


> None of us do.




Well you must be right then, it's fact surround sound is better and it's not down to personal opinion.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I've been playing ESOTU on the PS4 with the loaner PM-3 and have forgotten to acknowledge real life for the last 4 days. Isolation is ridiculously good, at the expense of soundstage, of course. Those group dungeons are a blast. Getting my ars handed to me in Cyrodil, though...


 
  
 I really enjoy the group dungeons. They're a ton of fun. But the best aspect of the game is how you can build whatever you want. My main character is a sorcerer who only uses summoning and CC magic. Everything else I do is physical damage, melee or ranged.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I really enjoy the group dungeons. They're a ton of fun. But the best aspect of the game is how you can build whatever you want. My main character is a sorcerer who only uses summoning and CC magic. Everything else I do is physical damage, melee or ranged.




I usually take a hack and slash approach on these kinds of games, so I tried something different and went full sorcerer with a staff. Having trouble logging into the Euro server, right now (stuck there due to American server issues the first few days), but once I do I'll probably stream.

I'm assuming you are passing on the console port? Highly understandable, if so, but just asking...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I usually take a hack and slash approach on these kinds of games, so I tried something different and went full sorcerer with a staff. Having trouble logging into the Euro server, right now (stuck there due to American server issues the first few days), but once I do I'll probably stream.
> 
> I'm assuming you are passing on the console port? Highly understandable, if so, but just asking...


 
  
 Yeah, I haven't re-joined the game yet so I don't be grabbing the console version. Why pay another $20 for a game I already own and don't play often?


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I've been playing ESOTU on the PS4 with the loaner PM-3 and have forgotten to acknowledge real life for the last 4 days. Isolation is ridiculously good, at the expense of soundstage, of course. Those group dungeons are a blast. Getting my ars handed to me in Cyrodil, though...


 
 How's the Audio in ESO?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> How's the Audio in ESO?


 

 Pretty bad ass when alone. Haven't had much critiquing time, however, due to all the chatting with my usual gaming friends.

 Elder scrolls audio has always been awesome to me. Even on the PS3, I was immersed with Skyrim's environmental cues. ESO's theme music isn't as good in comparison but still just as enjoyable as the gameplay, itself.
  
 Edit: Switched from the PM-3 to my K7XX after this post, and the clear plastic suspension on the inner part of the headband (left side) has snapped. Got darnit... never had this issue with the other AKGs (though they were all early production Austrian made). Really hope Massdrop/AKG can help me out with this issue.


----------



## FeedYourHead

burritoboy9984 said:


> Philips Shp9500. Has a detachable 3.5mm jack so you can attach a boompro. I actually prefer them over my X1's for positioning, but the X1's are more immersive for sure. You can normally find them in the $50-$70 range.


 
 Thanks, that looks like a great option, I've been reading through the main thread on them. Did you do the mod? Any chance you can compare to any of the ATH-ADx00 line?
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717690/philips-shp9500-discussion-thread
  


evshrug said:


> Well, the AD500 had smaller drivers than the AD700 and wasn't known for having Audio Technica's trademark air and soundstage special sauce. I haven't heard the x-branded new lineup, but I assume the AD500x is still using the smaller, lesser, more "average" driver. If you get anything in their lineup below the AD700x, in my opinion, you could just as easily buy any other headphone.


 
 The AD500x has the same size drivers, 53mm, as the 700x. Looking at the specs, it seems the main difference is that the 500x has a lower max mW rating. The reviews from gamers on Amazon look really positive, but I've yet to find a direct comparison to the 700x. He's being pretty stubborn, and doesn't want to spend over $80ish, unless I can give him a concrete reason, lol.


----------



## burritoboy9984

feedyourhead said:


> Thanks, that looks like a great option, I've been reading through the main thread on them. Did you do the mod? Any chance you can compare to any of the ATH-ADx00 line?
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/717690/philips-shp9500-discussion-thread
> 
> The AD500x has the same size drivers, 53mm, as the 700x. Looking at the specs, it seems the main difference is that the 500x has a lower max mW rating. The reviews from gamers on Amazon look really positive, but I've yet to find a direct comparison to the 700x. He's being pretty stubborn, and doesn't want to spend over $80ish, unless I can give him a concrete reason, lol.




I didn't do the mod, but I did have the 700's before and prefer these by far. It's so nice that they have a 3.5mm jack too. The 700's might have been a little too trebly for my taste. I feel the 9500s are a happy middle between the X1's and the 700's for my taste.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Is the soundstage and imaging comparable, in your opinion? Also, I read that they leak a lot, even for an open backed. Any thoughts about that, vs AD700?


----------



## VictorGG

Do you know if MLE is writing a review of Fostex 900s?
I own a fidelio X2 and Im looking for a comparison to decide the move. If anyone here got both, please make a comparison between both. Thanks!


----------



## burritoboy9984

feedyourhead said:


> Is the soundstage and imaging comparable, in your opinion? Also, I read that they leak a lot, even for an open backed. Any thoughts about that, vs AD700?




Soundstage and positioning is close imo. Not quite as open though. But more than good enough. I think they leak about as much as the X1's, which is a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

victorgg said:


> Do you know if MLE is writing a review of Fostex 900s?
> I own a fidelio X2 and Im looking for a comparison to decide the move. If anyone here got both, please make a comparison between both. Thanks!




Curretly not in the state of mind to review anything. I've had a TH600 review mostly finished for over 3 months now, and not commited to finishing it. The TH900 would logically be right after, but something is going to have to motivate me to doing so. At this point in time, I don't see anything doing so.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Curretly not in the state of mind to review anything. I've had a TH600 review mostly finished for over 3 months now, and not commited to finishing it. The TH900 would logically be right after, but something is going to have to motivate me to doing so. At this point in time, I don't see anything doing so.




Sorry to hear this, hope all is well.


----------



## VictorGG

mad lust envy said:


> Curretly not in the state of mind to review anything. I've had a TH600 review mostly finished for over 3 months now, and not commited to finishing it. The TH900 would logically be right after, but something is going to have to motivate me to doing so. At this point in time, I don't see anything doing so.


 

 Thanks for the reply. Sorry to hear that, I hope everything is well with you and your family.


----------



## Cyclonedx

Hey everyone, complete newbie here who is absolutely overwhelmed by everything headphone related! I've spent the last few days browsing this guide and other recommendations threads but I'm as confused as ever.
  
 Looking for a pair of headphones for gaming mainly, and listening to music on my laptop and phone (no PC, won't have any option for a sound card). The music I listen to is mostly rock. I want good isolation and something comfy that'll last me several years (hopefully). This is all I know. I read reviews, and people say stuff like "too bassy" or "too much mids/treble" or "not enough soundstage" but I have no idea what any of that means and how it will affect gaming audio. Should I be looking for something neutral? Also is there any point in getting professional studio headphones as so many are recommended if I don't know any of this basic stuff about how music sounds?
  
 Could someone please recommend me a couple headphones for my requirements? I might have a very flexible budget, so multiple recommendations for different budgets would be appreciated.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## Yethal

cyclonedx said:


> Looking for a pair of headphones for gaming mainly, and listening to music on my laptop and phone *(no PC, won't have any option for a sound card).* The music I listen to is mostly rock. I want good isolation and something comfy that'll last me several years (hopefully). This is all I know. I read reviews, and people say stuff like "too bassy" or "too much mids/treble" or "not enough soundstage" but I have no idea what any of that means and how it will affect gaming audio. Should I be looking for something neutral? Also is there any point in getting professional studio headphones as so many are recommended if I don't know any of this basic stuff about how music sounds?
> 
> Could someone please recommend me a couple headphones for my requirements? I might have a very flexible budget, so multiple recommendations for different budgets would be appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.


 
 There are USB soundcards too so no worries. You still have a few options
  
 What's Your budget?
  
 On a totally unrelated subject.
 Microsoft just announced their own SCUF controller.
 World has gone crazy


----------



## Evshrug

World crazy!! Doesn't Scuf hold a patent? I think I might need a new PS4 controller soon, playing the demo for the next Metal Gear game last night was really unresponsive to trigger presses (like, once you grab a guy, it's almost impossible to strangle him).


*Cyclonedx,*
Do you have a Windows or Mac PC? Creative and Asus makes a number of USB soundcards for laptops like yours, so you can get the swanky cool surround effects or just elevate your audio quality better than what the headphone jack in your laptop does. I like the Creative Omni a lot, you'd have to spend over $150 to start hearing significant improvements over it.

Some generally good starting headphones till you know what you like: Koss KSC-75, Koss PortaPro, Superlux SB998, Phillips SPH9500, Sennheiser HD558.

There's a Head-Fi glossary of audio terms, you should look up that. Some things you mentioned, briefly:
 highs or treble are sounds high in pitch like a flute or pulling a pin on a grenade
 Mids are the most common pitch in the middle of what you can hear, like talking or guitar or most footsteps on dirt.
 Lows or bass are sounds low in pitch, like a cello or the rumbly sound of a sustained big explosion.
In general, when people say highs, mids, and lows, think of a piano: the further right you hit a piano key, the higher the pitch, and hitting a more left key will be lower in pitch. Oversimplification, but you could basically divide the range into thirds with the left 1/3 being Bass, the middle 1/3 being Mids, and the right 1/3 being Treble.
 Soundstage is the ability to convey that a sound is coming from a distance away from you, like you're sitting in the audience and you can hear a difference between instruments playing from the front of the stage or further back.
 Imaging is greatly enhanced by surround processing, that's like the position of where a sound comes from relating to right-left-front-back. A headphone with good imaging will make it clear if something is making noise in front of you or off to the side, and surround processing helps distinguish between to the side in front of you OR to the side behind you.

Hope this helps, just had a few mins on my lunch break.


----------



## PacoTaco

Is there an updated gaming pc audio thread yet? I have never found one besides the one MLE listed (and it is a bit out of date now.)


----------



## inseconds99

pacotaco said:


> Is there an updated gaming pc audio thread yet? I have never found one besides the one MLE listed (and it is a bit out of date now.)


 
 What is your question about PC audio?


----------



## PacoTaco

inseconds99 said:


> What is your question about PC audio?


 
  
 No real question about it honestly. Just noticed a strong lack of it.
  
 Right now, I'm trying to give more thought if I should get a Soundblaster Z to a optical DAC/Amp or just get the Soundblaster X7 again. I'm leaning to the Soundblaster X7, but I'm trying to figure out how much power the ZMF Omni is going to need (as I may need a slightly more powerful amp for more headroom.)


----------



## inseconds99

pacotaco said:


> No real question about it honestly. Just noticed a strong lack of it.
> 
> Right now, I'm trying to give more thought if I should get a Soundblaster Z to a optical DAC/Amp or just get the Soundblaster X7 again. I'm leaning to the Soundblaster X7, but I'm trying to figure out how much power the ZMF Omni is going to need (as I may need a slightly more powerful amp for more headroom.)


 
  
 Though I do love my X7 (owned a SBZ for 1 day as it was defective right out of the box) I personally would not invest in the X7 again and I would do sbx optical out to dac/amp. I want to have a more powerful and better sounding dac/amp for my HD800's and now (because the X7 doesn't do sbx out of optical) I would need to purchase a sound card and the dac/amp anyway which leaves no reason to own the X7. To me the X7 is annoying to use with my consoles as there are too many wires going every direction to get everything (chat) working properly. YMMV but realize I am speaking on behalf of a TOTL headphone, this information might not apply to lower end headphones or for people that just want great gaming sound and don't care too much about the music aspect.


----------



## PacoTaco

inseconds99 said:


> Though I do love my X7 (owned a SBZ for 1 day as it was defective right out of the box) I personally would not invest in the X7 again and I would do sbx optical out to dac/amp. I want to have a more powerful and better sounding dac/amp for my HD800's and now (because the X7 doesn't do sbx out of optical) I would need to purchase a sound card and the dac/amp anyway which leaves no reason to own the X7. To me the X7 is annoying to use with my consoles as there are too many wires going every direction to get everything (chat) working properly. YMMV but realize I am speaking on behalf of a TOTL headphone, this information might not apply to lower end headphones or for people that just want great gaming sound and don't care too much about the music aspect.


 

  I haven't (admittedly) been listening to too much music lately. The ZMF Omni is a flagship planar, which is why I'm wondering if I need more power. The thing is, I'm also taking into account that the DSP may not be as good in the Z as the X7.


----------



## inseconds99

For all my Gamers out there. Good Deal on PS Plus 1 year membership. http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/15300#post_11691296


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> For all my Gamers out there. Good Deal on PS Plus 1 year membership. http://www.head-fi.org/t/692119/the-deals-discussion-thread-read-the-first-post/15300#post_11691296


 

 coupon not working anymore 
  
 This was the first time since BF of 2013 that PS Plus drop to the low 30s for a year membership.....and I missed it.


----------



## rudyae86

Geek meter around the world is super high right now!
  
 What I really want to know is how Dolby Atmos is going to work with this game. Ill be buying a Lenovo 10inch tablet that has Dolby Atmos and some phones are starting to also have Dolby Atmos in them.
  
 Ill probably go see Jurassic World as well and check out Dolby Atmos. Need to experience this


----------



## inseconds99

rudyae86 said:


> coupon not working anymore
> 
> This was the first time since BF of 2013 that PS Plus drop to the low 30s for a year membership.....and I missed it.


 
 Yup I did my best to get this info out as fast as I could, I got my order in thankfully. Sorry you missed it. But 39.99 is not terrible considering it never goes on sale.


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> Yup I did my best to get this info out as fast as I could, I got my order in thankfully. Sorry you missed it. But 39.99 is not terrible considering it never goes on sale.


 
 Well 40 bucks seems to be the norm. I see it almost every month. But someone who is cheap, needs to save every dollar lol


----------



## inseconds99

rudyae86 said:


> Well 40 bucks seems to be the norm. I see it almost every month. But someone who is cheap, needs to save every dollar lol


 
 I hear ya I would not buy it till it dropped below full retail. I've been doing all of my online gaming on the Xbox One and PC.


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> I hear ya I would not buy it till it dropped below full retail. I've been doing all of my online gaming on the Xbox One and PC.


 
 I honestly dont pay full retail. Even when Project CARS was released, I got it for cheap at 37 bucks with DLC included. But since it was a let down, sort of, I barely play it lol.
  
 Though I might end up paying full retail price for Star Wars Battlefront. Just waiting for a good price on the new AMD cards or a drop in price for the 980Ti.
  
 My wallet is not ready now but it should be ready close to Black Friday lol


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> On a totally unrelated subject.
> Microsoft just announced their own SCUF controller.
> World has gone crazy


 
  
 If the $150 MSRP is true, they just priced themselves outta the market, and I can't say I'm fond of the D-Pad shape they showed off...
  
 They'd have more of a chance if that was the controller they'd bundle with the Oculus Rift CV1 instead of the standard Xbox One pad!
  


evshrug said:


> World crazy!! Doesn't Scuf hold a patent? I think I might need a new PS4 controller soon, playing the demo for the next Metal Gear game last night was really unresponsive to trigger presses (like, once you grab a guy, it's almost impossible to strangle him).


 
  
 If SCUF has a patent for having the face buttons replicated under the grips to be used by your middle and ring fingers, I call prior art on that!
  
 Yep, that trait dates back to the original Xbox, maybe even earlier for all I know.
  


pacotaco said:


> Is there an updated gaming pc audio thread yet? I have never found one besides the one MLE listed *(and it is a bit out of date now.)*


 
  
 I swear, I need to rewrite that guide thread outright, but I'm thinking about HOW to approach the rewrite.

 The "list of facts/parts" approach doesn't work out too well in practice when people keep asking me all the same questions and I get tired of repeating myself, so I should probably go for more of a Q&A format.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Just curious if anyone here knows (as I'm already subscribed to this thread). When you have an audio file that is a higher sample rate than the DAC is capable of (for example 192khz on a DAC capable of 96khz max) from what I gather it will be resampled to play on the device. Does this have a negative affect on the quality or is it like when you downscale video (being as good, although in the case of games, higher res textures are loaded so it will actually be better)?
  
 If nobody knows off the top of their head I'll search out the info or start another thread (I've tried Google but didn't find an answer).


----------



## RRod

napalmhardcore said:


> Just curious if anyone here knows (as I'm already subscribed to this thread). When you have an audio file that is a higher sample rate than the DAC is capable of (for example 192khz on a DAC capable of 96khz max) from what I gather it will be resampled to play on the device. Does this have a negative affect on the quality or is it like when you downscale video (being as good, although in the case of games, higher res textures are loaded so it will actually be better)?
> 
> If nobody knows off the top of their head I'll search out the info or start another thread (I've tried Google but didn't find an answer).


 
  
 The quality, latency, and CPU resources used will depend upon the specific resampling algorithm.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

rrod said:


> The quality, latency, and CPU resources used will depend upon the specific resampling algorithm.


 

 Sorry for the delayed response I had to go out. In the case of something like a USB soundcard (Sound Blaster Omni in my case) I assume the scaling is dealt with by the card, is that correct? I'm also now wondering what the native quality of the audio files used in games today is. Think I'll have to do some Googling.
  
 Thanks for the response


----------



## RRod

napalmhardcore said:


> Sorry for the delayed response I had to go out. In the case of something like a USB soundcard (Sound Blaster Omni in my case) I assume the scaling is dealt with by the card, is that correct? I'm also now wondering what the native quality of the audio files used in games today is. Think I'll have to do some Googling.
> 
> Thanks for the response


 
  
 It depends on how the whole system is set up. For instance, you can have software mixing enabled in your audio server, which would mean every PCM stream would get mixed to the same sample/bit spec *before* going out to the DAC. Also, audio servers can "talk" to the hardware to know what rates it supports, and thus can be set to resample things down to the DAC's abilities. How much of this happens in hardware or software depends upon the specifics of your setup.
  
 On Linux, the only native rates I've seen for games are 44.1k and 48k.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Thanks.
  
 I am the technical minded person in my family. Never had any problems with setting up VCRs, know what all the connectors on the TV are for and what goes where, can troubleshoot PC issues etc. I must admit, the world of audio is the one that has left me feeling out of my depth from the moment I took more than a casual interest in it. Even something as simple as a headset splitter there is a hidden pitfall (OMTP or CTIA, which annoyingly is rarely stated in the item descriptions on places like Amazon UK). The amount of things I've had to learn over the last couple of years (from looking to improve my home audio setup to buying PA speakers for when I gig) borders on ridiculous.
  
 BTW, this isn't a rant, just an observation I made while reflecting. Again thanks for the info


----------



## RRod

napalmhardcore said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I am the technical minded person in my family. Never had any problems with setting up VCRs, know what all the connectors on the TV are for and what goes where, can troubleshoot PC issues etc. I must admit, the world of audio is the one that has left me feeling out of my depth from the moment I took more than a casual interest in it. Even something as simple as a headset splitter there is a hidden pitfall (OMTP or CTIA, which annoyingly is rarely stated in the item descriptions on places like Amazon UK). The amount of things I've had to learn over the last couple of years (from looking to improve my home audio setup to buying PA speakers for when I gig) borders on ridiculous.
> 
> BTW, this isn't a rant, just an observation I made while reflecting. Again thanks for the info


 
  
 Yes, and it can be hard to determine which rabbit holes are actually worth going down to get actual tangible benefits out of your system. Personally I think way too much hay is made over things like hi-res formats and resamplers, and not enough on things like getting the most out of headphone virtualization.


----------



## Yethal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkg5UVTsKCE
  
 I'm not going to recommend it in any way. Just watch it.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkg5UVTsKCE
> 
> I'm not going to recommend it in any way. Just watch it.


 

 I saw it yesterday during the stream, I think it looks pretty cool.


----------



## Mad Max

Thanks for your Shure 1540 review, Mad Lust Envy.


----------



## Sayplastic

mad lust envy said:


> Curretly not in the state of mind to review anything. I've had a TH600 review mostly finished for over 3 months now, and not commited to finishing it. The TH900 would logically be right after, but something is going to have to motivate me to doing so. At this point in time, I don't see anything doing so.


 

 Been waiting for TH600/TH900 since you bought them, especially compared to the X2. No pressure or anything, hope you get motivated again at some point!


----------



## Helvetica bold

Anyone knows what Turtle Beach headphones are these? This is at E3 at the Battlefront area. Its connected to PS4s.
 Doesnt anyone know if there will be specific Battlefront headphones?


----------



## ashm278

I’m looking to get some decent headphones mainly for gaming on PS4 but also for music on ipad and phone. I have previously tried various gaming headsets but they are just awful. I’ve had wireless and cabled and all have sucked. 

I was considering the Astro A40’s but after reading on various posts and articles I think I might be better with headphones and possible an amp/DAC. I am a total beginner to this but I feel the gaming headsets are just ripping me off for what i’m paying for. 

I have been looking at possibly getting some of the following headphones but not sure what the best setup would be for the PS4. 

AKG K612 Pro
AKG K712 Pro
Philips Fidelio X1

I’m totally confused with whether I need an amp or DAC or both to power any of these. I will be using chat also with a mod mic or something similar. ? I have been looking at the Astro MixAmp (2013) and the FiiO E10K.

Can anyone suggest which would be the best setup for the PS4 please? 

Thanks for reading and advice in advance.


----------



## Hansotek

ashm278 said:


> I’m looking to get some decent headphones mainly for gaming on PS4 but also for music on ipad and phone. I have previously tried various gaming headsets but they are just awful. I’ve had wireless and cabled and all have sucked.
> 
> I was considering the Astro A40’s but after reading on various posts and articles I think I might be better with headphones and possible an amp/DAC. I am a total beginner to this but I feel the gaming headsets are just ripping me off for what i’m paying for.
> 
> ...



I'd go with the Fidelio X1 or even better, the X2, if you can swing a couple extra bucks. They will work fine just through the Mixamp and your "idevices". AKGs really need something more powerful for amping.


----------



## dakanao

hansotek said:


> I'd go with the Fidelio X1 or even better, the X2, if you can swing a couple extra bucks. They will work fine just through the Mixamp and your "idevices". AKGs really need something more powerful for amping.


 
 Imo the X1 doesn't sound good straight from my laptops onboard soundcard...


----------



## dakanao

Did anyone here game with the Nad Viso HP50?


----------



## Yethal

dakanao said:


> Imo the X1 doesn't sound good* straight from my laptops onboard soundcard*...


 
 And here's Your answer why


----------



## dakanao

yethal said:


> And here's Your answer why


 
 Yeah, when I had them last year, I was about to order a amp/DAC with them if it wasn't for their channel imbalance problem that I had with them...


----------



## Yethal

dakanao said:


> Yeah, when I had them last year, I was about to order a amp/DAC with them if it wasn't for their channel imbalance problem that I had with them...


 
 Channel imbalance can be source-induced as far as I know. Have You tried using them on other sources?


----------



## ashm278

Thanks for the input. The x2's is a little bit above what I wanted to spend but from the reviews I've saw they look good. The best sound for the PS4 is more important than iPad etc. I would rather get a great headset for gaming first. I still need to buy mixamp and mod mic.


----------



## Yethal

ashm278 said:


> Thanks for the input. The x2's is a little bit above what I wanted to spend but from the reviews I've saw they look good. The best sound for the PS4 is more important than iPad etc. I would rather get a great headset for gaming first. I still need to buy mixamp and mod mic.


 
 How much money do You have for the entire setup?


----------



## dakanao

yethal said:


> Channel imbalance can be source-induced as far as I know. Have You tried using them on other sources?


 
 Yeah, on my mobile phone and the Turtle Beach DSS for gaming on the xbox 360. I don't remember them being imbalanced on the DSS, but I could be wrong here. But they were definitely imbalanced on my phone, same as on my laptop.


----------



## ashm278

yethal said:


> How much money do You have for the entire setup?




250 but I could maybe stretch to 300. The mix amp is 45 and the modmic 40. Should I be looking at the sennheiser HD598? I have only ever used gaming headsets for gaming and I thought every make and model was really bad for positioning. Just looking for something with a realistic sound.


----------



## Hansotek

dakanao said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > And here's Your answer why
> ...


 
 That stinks that you had all those issues. I haven't had any such problems with the X1. 
  
 I think it's great with both the Ps4 and the iPad.


----------



## Yethal

ashm278 said:


> 250 but I could maybe stretch to 300. The mix amp is 45 and the modmic 40. Should I be looking at the sennheiser HD598? I have only ever used gaming headsets for gaming and I thought every make and model was really bad for positioning. Just looking for something with a realistic sound.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-ATH-AD700-Open-Air-Dynamic-Audiophile-Headphones-/251970337722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aaa9a3bba
  
 This is probably the best You can get, grab it before it's too late.


----------



## Hansotek

ashm278 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > How much money do You have for the entire setup?
> ...


 
  
 I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)


----------



## dakanao

hansotek said:


> I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)


 
 They weren't defective, I've returned them and got a new one, and that one had the same issue as well...


----------



## Hansotek

dakanao said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)
> ...


 
  
 Then maybe your source is the problem? Either way, sorry to hear about your crappy experience with the headphone. :/ I've had no such issues. I hope you found something that worked better for you.


----------



## ashm278

yethal said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-ATH-AD700-Open-Air-Dynamic-Audiophile-Headphones-/251970337722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aaa9a3bba
> 
> This is probably the best You can get, grab it before it's too late.




I'm in the UK I can get these 157 new. Just wish I could try before buying. 



hansotek said:


> I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)




I haven't made up my mind but you guys are helping me to come closer to my decision. 

From all the reviews I've read and watched I still like the sound of the AKG's just know that I probably won't be able to power these just with the mix amp. I want something that will help immerse me into the games I play. Now I'm still think X1's but also possibly the AD700. Also worried that I will spend a lot of money and I can't hear the difference. This is my first audiophile headphones. What do you guys use with your PS4?


----------



## Helvetica bold

I'm on PS4 and just bought Audio Technica AD700x. It's connected to the 2011 mixamp 5.8. So far I LOVE it! I play a lot of BF4. I just have to figure out the best mic solution.


----------



## chococya96

Sorry for asking off-topic question but I was wondering what is the best possible way to hook up an external amp *directly* to PS4?


----------



## AxelCloris

chococya96 said:


> Sorry for asking off-topic question but I was wondering what is the best possible way to hook up an external amp *directly* to PS4?


 
  
 AV cable out of the PS4 and run the audio legs to the amp? Seems like an odd request but that's probably the most direct way.


----------



## Yethal

ashm278 said:


> I'm in the UK I can get these 157 new. Just wish I could try before buying.
> I haven't made up my mind but you guys are helping me to come closer to my decision.


 
 This specific auction is for modded version with added microphone and removable cable so it's cheaper than ad700 new + modmic + shipping for both.
  
 Disclaimer: It isn't mine, I just found it on ebay and decided to share


chococya96 said:


> Sorry for asking off-topic question but I was wondering what is the best possible way to hook up an external amp *directly* to PS4?


 
 The only way to hook up an amp to the PS4 is by connecting it to the minijack in the controller itself, since the PS4 does not have analog outputs. Unless You mean an AV receiver in which case use HDMI.


----------



## Evshrug

AD700 (x) and the X1 weigh opposite flavored of the sound, respectively you've got air, lightness, and soundstage, on the other you've got a strong V-Shaped headphone with lots of bass emphasis and stuff mentioned in Mad's review. If you want AD700, don't pay $200 USD >_< Here they are at $90 USD:
AD700

Chococya, the PS4 console only has digital outputs, so you need a digital to analogue converter before you can start amplifying the analogue signal. Some cheap options:
In stereo: FiiO D3k, or the D5k
In stereo or processed to headphone surround: Turtle Beach DSS, on eBay. Also has built-in amp, not bad.

The other option is you can plug a headphone or amp into the headphone port on the DualShock 4 controller... Just don't expect the sound quality to be as good as a smartphone or the options I mentioned above.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> AV cable out of the PS4 and run the audio legs to the amp? Seems like an odd request but that's probably the most direct way.



Lol friend, audio legs? What are you talking about!
Those audio legs better be wrapped in fishnet insulation so that you can run them through the house with amplified excitement!

PS4 has an HDMI output, an optical output, and technically you can output audio through USB. No RCA connections or such. The controller has that headphone jack, but life (and battery life) is too short to subject yourself to that audio!


----------



## ashm278

helvetica bold said:


> I'm on PS4 and just bought Audio Technica AD700x. It's connected to the 2011 mixamp 5.8. So far I LOVE it! I play a lot of BF4. I just have to figure out the best mic solution.




Sounds like you have a good setup. I would prefer a boom mic instead of the mod mic I think but more options with the modmic so I can I will probably go for that. 




yethal said:


> This specific auction is for modded version with added microphone and removable cable so it's cheaper than ad700 new + modmic + shipping for both.
> 
> Disclaimer: It isn't mine, I just found it on ebay and decided to share




Didn't realise it was modded, sorry. I will have another look. Thanks Yethal


----------



## GVNMllN

http://www.head-fi.org/t/771894/akg-mini-xlr-ta3f-to-3-5mm-adapter-for-v-moda-boompro-uk-eu
  
 I've sourced some UK based AKG -3.5mm adapters for use with the V-Moda BoomPro
 Hopefully this will help a few of you out


----------



## chococya96

evshrug said:


> Chococya, the PS4 console only has digital outputs, so you need a digital to analogue converter before you can start amplifying the analogue signal. Some cheap options:
> In stereo: FiiO D3k, or the D5k
> In stereo or processed to headphone surround: Turtle Beach DSS, on eBay. Also has built-in amp, not bad.
> 
> The other option is you can plug a headphone or amp into the headphone port on the DualShock 4 controller... Just don't expect the sound quality to be as good as a smartphone or the options I mentioned above.


 
  
 Would this work:
 PS4 > optical to FiiO D3k > RCA to Schiit Magni 2 (normal version, not "uber") > 3.5mm to headphone (AKG Annie/K712)


----------



## Yethal

chococya96 said:


> Would this work:
> PS4 > optical to FiiO D3k > RCA to Schiit Magni 2 (normal version, not "uber") > 3.5mm to headphone (AKG Annie/K712)


 
 Yup, it would


----------



## ashm278

hansotek said:


> I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)




Do you use your x1's with ps4 or for gaming in general?


----------



## Hansotek

ashm278 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I personally enjoy the X1 quite a bit more than the HD598, although the 598 is nice. I don't let yourself be deterred from a good can just because another head-fier got a random defective pair. (No offense Dakano... sounds like you just got unlucky.)
> ...


 
  
 Technically, both. All my gaming is done through the PS4. 
  
 I run the optical out to the MixAmp and then use a 10' Monoprice replacement cable to run to the headphone.
  
*Very important pro tip:* the cable that comes with the Fidelio X1 sucks. It has really high electrical resistance _for no good reason_. It definitely hurts the sound, but it is user removable and very easily replaceable. If you get the X1, do yourself a favor and order a $10 Monoprice replacement cable along with it. It makes a big difference. (You'll find this statement echoed in several Head-fi reviews and the InnerFidelity review. Trust me, do it.)
  
 Overall, it's a great phone for music and gaming. Especially for the price. If you decide to get an amp with it, the Fiio E17 is a great compliment. The X1 responds extremely well to the bass and treble boost options, which really lets you tune the headphone to your liking.


----------



## ashm278

hansotek said:


> Technically, both. All my gaming is done through the PS4.
> 
> I run the optical out to the MixAmp and then use a 10' Monoprice replacement cable to run to the headphone.
> 
> ...




Sounds exactly what I'm looking for. I've been reading reviews again today and including the InnerFidelity review. Everyone has said the same about the cable. We don't have Monoprice where I am but I am sure I will get something on Amazon. Ordered the Mixamp yesterday as I was getting it for 45. Think I am now certain the X1's are what I want. 

Thanks for all you help, appreciated very much!


----------



## Evshrug

^Yup, and Mad mentioned as much in the first post too. Everybody agrees!

One more thing, the original FiiO E17 (not the new E17k) also had an optical input Jack. I still recommend surround processing for a special treat, BUT if you set the PS4 to stereo output (PCM) you can connect the E17 straight to the PS4 for an all-in-one setup.

So *Chococya,*
if you haven't bought that Schiit amp yet, the E17 could take the place of the D03k and Schiit amp as the one piece of (portable) equipment between your PS4 and AKGs. And if you ever want to save up for an amp even better than the magni2, you can use the FiiO's line out feature.

Still, the main downside to this feature: no surround sound with consoles. So that's why I usually recommend a Turtle Beach DSS instead, from eBay. Priced $20-$30, you get a DAC and amp about on the same level as the FiiO (I haven't tested them side-by-side), virtual headphone surround processing (to use with any normal stereo headphones), and a dial on the side to boost or slightly cut sub bass. I had/liked one for about a year, till I upgraded to the Creative X7 and no longer needed the DSS.


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> ^Yup, and Mad mentioned as much in the first post too. Everybody agrees!
> 
> One more thing, the original FiiO E17 (not the new E17k) also had an optical input Jack. I still recommend surround processing for a special treat, BUT if you set the PS4 to stereo output (PCM) you can connect the E17 straight to the PS4 for an all-in-one setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I still think saviing the money for the X7 is the best bet out of most of these choices. Otherwise, for the new generation of consoles, going for the DDS -> an amp is the cheapest solution. Usually sounds better than the Mixamp too.


----------



## chococya96

yethal said:


> Yup, it would


 
  
 Alright.
  
 One more question: I heard that you can connect your DAC straight to PS4 via USB... Is this true?


----------



## Evshrug

Define "straight?" Optical is also "straight" to the PS4, and HDMI. But yeah, I think the ps4 can output stereo through USB, but I don't know if it would be any good. I only use USB for a microphone and for power to accessories (like my DS4)


----------



## Yethal

It's kinda strange but it seems that nobody knows the specs of the PS4 USB output (max sampling and sample size), not even ps4 dev wiki has that kind of info. Weird.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I kind of wanna go back to just using my own amp with the Mixamp. The X7 is a finicky little bugger, and it lacks the rear audio cues that Dolby headphone makes easier to hear over SBX. Ah well.


----------



## dizcotic

Hi guys, I'm finding dac/amp to pair with AKG k712 pro I made some list but you can suggest me with these prices range.
  
 Geek Out 1000
 meridian explorer
 Audio-gd NFB-11
 Fiio E9k or E12 
 Schiit Vali
*ALO* NATIONAL+ BLACK
 which should I go for and how about the sound will look like each?


----------



## chococya96

evshrug said:


> Define "straight?" Optical is also "straight" to the PS4, and HDMI. But yeah, I think the ps4 can output stereo through USB, but I don't know if it would be any good. I only use USB for a microphone and for power to accessories (like my DS4)


 
  
    Quote:


yethal said:


> It's kinda strange but it seems that nobody knows the specs of the PS4 USB output (max sampling and sample size), not even ps4 dev wiki has that kind of info. Weird.


 
  
 What I mean by straight as in connecting the USB straight from the DAC/amp to the USB port on the PS4.
  
 Either way, it seems like connecting via optical is the best option to use amps with.


----------



## dakanao

Has anyone here used the NAD Viso HP50 with Dolby Headphone?  I've read that that they're very spacious sounding for a closed headphone.


----------



## Hansotek

dakanao said:


> Has anyone here used the NAD Viso HP50 with Dolby Headphone?  I've read that that they're very spacious sounding for a closed headphone.


 
  
 I have both of those items, so I could give it a test drive for you this weekend, if nobody else has tried it.


----------



## dakanao

hansotek said:


> I have both of those items, so I could give it a test drive for you this weekend, if nobody else has tried it.


 
 Yeah, that would be really appreciated!
  
 Also, how do you think the NAD Viso HP50 compares to the Philips X1?


----------



## Hansotek

dakanao said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I have both of those items, so I could give it a test drive for you this weekend, if nobody else has tried it.
> ...


 
  
 Personally, I like the X1 much more. I find them both to be fairly "thick" sounding headphones... the HP50 even moreso than the X1. X1 has more impact, which makes it more fun to listen to. The HP50 has better bass extension, but I wouldn't call it a basshead headphone. It's quite full sounding and fairly neutral, but again, a bit thick in the midbass and lower mids.
  
 The HP50 can be a touch shouty toward the center of the midrange, a trait it shares with the HD650 and the stock HE500. I find that I am generally more sensitive to this than others, so it may not be a concern for you. The upper mids are well balanced, bordering on relaxed. I find the X1 to be a touch more elevated and pleasant in this region. The highs are bit relaxed on both, and sibilance is very rare. Overall, I'd say the HP50 sounds a bit dulled out on the top end (but not veiled), whereas the X1 is a little more crisp and lively. 
  
 Soundstage and imaging are very good on both. You get a couple of 'outside the headphone moments' with the HP50, which are quite impressive for a closed back. It really seems to defy the closed back design sometimes, especially with movie scores. There is a nicely defined bubble for the sound image. I feel like the X1 is more organic in its soundstage presentation overall, being an open back, but the gap with the HP50 isn't as big as it is with some other closed backs.
  
 The X1 is better in terms of comfort. The HP50 is hit or miss. Sometimes it's very comfortable, sometimes it's not. I think it really depends on how you situate the pads on your ears. The X1 is certainly the prettier of the two. The HP50 has this weird square Frankenstein head top, which I find a little odd. I recommend a cable replacement for both... the HP50 cable is too short to be practical for anything other than mobile use.
  
 Overall, I find the HP50's sound to be very even and well rounded, but a bit boring. It does a lot of things right, but it doesn't do any one thing so well that it inspires any passion about the headphone (for me). The X1 wows you with its combination of punch, impact and soundstage, and then seals the deal with its ability to be both smooth and detailed on the top end. The HP50 doesn't really wow me in any one area, it just does everything well.
  
 TLDR version: If you are looking for a warm, balanced headphone with solid delivery on all the fundamentals, the HP50 fills the bill. If you want a headphone that will excite you and or add some sort of definitive aspect to your listening experience, you'll probably be disappointed. As always, YMMV.


----------



## Yethal

There is a Control Panel Update available to download from Creative page


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Well, E3 has come and gone and the Turtle Beach TAC didn't make an appearance. I'm beginning to think they've scrapped it, probably so they can implement features into their inline amps/processors to sell more headsets. Disappointing as it sounded interesting (though not necessarily right for what I want)
  
 I've been giving some thought to possible future upgrades but there are always hurdles. For example, I know at some point I want to get HD600s (have wanted to try Sennheisers for some time, gaming aside). I don't really want to put a Modmic on them as I have one on my K240 Mk2s and quite frankly, I think it looks a bit ugly. I'd also love to use something like a Yeti Pro (as I'm a musician too, so I'd kill two birds with one stone). The third thing I would like to do is get something like a Little Dot tube amp as I'm curious to try a tube amp in general and it should drive the HD600s nicely.
  
 I currently play my PS4 more than I play my PC. The problem with the theoretical setup of Mixamp, Yeti and tube amp (from the info I've been able to find, correct me if I'm wrong)
  
 a) The Yeti cannot be used in conjunction with the Mixamp
 b) The mixamp has no line out and although it can be double amped I'd rather not
  
 This would mean I'd only get the best out of this setup on my PC which would be disappointing. I think the limitations of the PS4 in regards to input and output routing are software based (again, correct me if I'm wrong). The second problem is that none of the people that produce dedicated virtual surround devices ever consider that someone might wish to use an external amp. So in summary, two issues which should not be too difficult to remedy (in theory) prevent what I'd consider to be a pretty nice setup from being possible. Yeah I know, first world problems, but it is frustrating.


----------



## Evshrug

1. TAC was at E3, my source says it should arrive within a range of late this year to early next. Should be priced just a bit higher than the Mixamp, no processed digital output, and for a DAC it will use a single AKM4396. My source was only able to use it with TB headsets and was unimpressed, but he has some really nice high end headphones of his own so the demo TB headphones by comparison would be very "average" or worse.

2. Just use the Yeti plugged into the PS4, and PS4 party chat system to balance game/chat relative volumes.

3. The makers of headphone gaming surround processors expect you to stay within their product ecosystem. On one hand, customers usually do just that by buying the processor bundled with a headset or part of a "wireless" setup, but on the other hand, they shoot themselves in the foot because most of them don't "wow" gamers and the processor doesn't become an essential piece of gear.

 It goes along with what the two guys that wanted to connect their headsets "straight" into their consoles... The "growth" market who isn't, you know, us already in this thread, they want a simple setup without extra boxes in between the headphone and console/PC. Mainstream isn't convinced that extra boxes are worthwhile; they get a Turtle Beach X11 + DSS bundle or an Astro A30 + Mixamp bundle and the setup sounds pretty bad compared to listening to music, so they don't get excited (usually) or think to try the processor with different headphones. When I started getting into headphone gaming, I couldn't care less about surround processing because the demo I heard sounded fake and didn't work, so I just cared about comfort and headphones that sounded like speakers. Now, I really like surround, but there was definitely a hurdle to overcome to discover gear that made the surround effect "work" and be worth the effort.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> 1. TAC was at E3, my source says it should arrive within a range of late this year to early next. Should be priced just a bit higher than the Mixamp, no processed digital output, and for a DAC it will use a single AKM4396. My source was only able to use it with TB headsets and was unimpressed, but he has some really nice high end headphones of his own so the demo TB headphones by comparison would be very "average" or worse.


 
 It's the same DAC chip as the one in Audioengine D1 and Schiit Fulla. Interesting. You have any more info about this?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hmm, seems Google was not my friend on this occasion.
  
 I am aware of the problems that come with being picky, it's just frustrating. Kind of a "so near yet so far" scenario. Two small obstacles which unfortunately the majority of people don't care about stand in the way, so it is likely to never see a solution (considering some of the problems the majority do care about don't get addressed, SONY!).


----------



## Sam21

I just found out that the MA900 has a muffled and distorted low end with some tracks. I think MLE should lower the score for it.


----------



## Hansotek

dakanao said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I have both of those items, so I could give it a test drive for you this weekend, if nobody else has tried it.
> ...



Got a chance to use the NAD Viso HP50 for gaming a bit tonight, I'm going to go off of MLE's review of the Fidelio X1 for comparison, because I think his write up was pretty spot-on.

FUN
Fidelio X1 - 8.5
NAD HP50 - 8.0
The NAD performed much better than I anticipated. The nice sub bass presence and extension played a factor here. Guns sound freakin' awesome! Very punchy and you can feel every shot. Explosions sound huge! I docked it half a point relative to the X1 because it's really missing the high frequency air that you get with the X1. Almost any closed back is going to be at a disadvantage here, but the very highes highs are a little extra choked off here. Not a huge deal, because it does everything else really well. 

COMPETITIVE
Fidelio X1 - 8.0
NAD HP50 - 7.0
Overall, very good for a closed back, but average performance overall. I'd catch things coming from the side or behind me, and the would always be right where I thought, but the whole process seemed faster and more fluid with the X1. I felt like my reaction time was noticeably quicker. I don't know if I'd be rushing to use the HP50 in PVP., though it's quite serviceable in casual PVE.

COMFORT
Fidelio X1 - 8.0
HP50 - 5.0
This is where the HP50 takes a major hit. IMO, it clamps a little too hard and there's not quite enough padding. YMMV. However, there's a much bigger issue and that is heat buildup. The HP50 gets HOT sitting on your head extremely quickly while gaming. Unless you're playing in a refrigerator, it makes the whole experience downright uncomfortable. YMMV, of course.

Overall, I still like the X1 better, but the HP50 fared better than I thought it would. It's very, very close in the sound categories, but I'd definitely recommend trying it out and seeing how you like the comfort before you consider buying. I just found the heat to be too much.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> I just found out that the MA900 has a muffled and distorted low end with some tracks. I think MLE should lower the score for it.


 
 You sure it's not Your gear/eq settings/track ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sam21 said:


> I just found out that the MA900 has a muffled and distorted low end with some tracks. I think MLE should lower the score for it.




I'm not lowering a subjective score. It's MY score, not yours. 

Muffled and distorted lower end depends on YOUR components as well. Also, no two headphones are identical, and perhaps the quality of yours was worse than the one I owned.

I'm considering making scores even more vague by going to a 5 star system. That way:

1 out of 5 is hot garbage
2 out of 5 is bad
3 out of 5 is good
4 out of 5 is great
5 out of 5 is amazing 

That will keep people from nitpicking minute scoring differences, and can actually read the reviews.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not lowering a subjective score. It's MY score, not yours.
> 
> Muffled and distorted lower end depends on YOUR components as well. Also, no two headphones are identical, and perhaps the quality of yours was worse than the one I owned.
> 
> ...


 
 Just adopt the Kotaku scoring system. 
  
 "Should You own these headphones?"
  
 Yes, No, Maybe,
  
 That'd solve it.


----------



## Sam21

Oh, Sorry guys, I had EQ enabled in foobar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not surprised.


----------



## Xylust

Just bought the *AKG K612 Pro, hopefully It's good, most I ever spent on headphones!*


----------



## Xylust

Just bought the AKG K612 Pro, hope they are good because this is the most I ever spent on headphones!


----------



## AxelCloris

xylust said:


> Just bought the AKG K612 Pro, hope they are good because this is the most I ever spent on headphones!


 
  
 They're one hell of a budget pair, I hope you enjoy them.
  
 Some days I wish that was the most I'd ever spent on headphones. Sigh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 612 is solid. No way you'll be disappointed unless you want a definite tilt somewhere like boosted bass or something. The 612 is incredibly neutral/natural. It's a damn good headphone.


----------



## frankefrum

What is everyone using these days to replace the mixamp pro 5.8 wireless for console gaming? I can't even figure out what to search for when browsing the web...


----------



## Sam21

xylust said:


> Just bought the *AKG K612 Pro, hopefully It's good, most I ever spent on headphones!*


 
 lol, GIVE AKG YOUR MONEY!!!


----------



## Evshrug

xylust said:


> Just bought the AKG K612 Pro, hope they are good because this is the most I ever spent on headphones!



The K612 are quite good, and an amazing bargain. If it sounds at all weak (forget about plugging it into a PS4 controller!), try adding a FiiO E11k or something from the portable amp roundup thread by ClieOS.




frankefrum said:


> What is everyone using these days to replace the mixamp pro 5.8 wireless for console gaming? I can't even figure out what to search for when browsing the web...



Gave up on wireless, I use a Creative X7. There's a few stereo wireless transmitters out there, but not a straightforward way to put headphone surround through them, and they just don't sound as good as a wired option.


----------



## ashm278

hansotek said:


> Got a chance to use the NAD Viso HP50 for gaming a bit tonight, I'm going to go off of MLE's review of the Fidelio X1 for comparison, because I think his write up was pretty spot-on.
> 
> FUN
> Fidelio X1 - 8.5
> ...




Got my X1's today and can't believe the sound I am getting from them compared to the gaming headsets. Love them! Thanks to Hansotek and MLE and everyone who helped me pick my first audiophile headphones.


----------



## Hansotek

ashm278 said:


> Got my X1's today and can't believe the sound I am getting from them compared to the gaming headsets. Love them! Thanks to Hansotek and MLE and everyone who helped me pick my first audiophile headphones.


 
  
 Anytime! Glad to hear you like it.


----------



## dakanao

ashm278 said:


> Got my X1's today and can't believe the sound I am getting from them compared to the gaming headsets. Love them! Thanks to Hansotek and MLE and everyone who helped me pick my first audiophile headphones.


 
 With what amp/DAC are you pairing them with?


----------



## ashm278

dakanao said:


> With what amp/DAC are you pairing them with?




I got an Astro mixamp 2013 version. I've not tried it with the mic yet but loving the sound


----------



## frankefrum

evshrug said:


> Gave up on wireless, I use a Creative X7. There's a few stereo wireless transmitters out there, but not a straightforward way to put headphone surround through them, and they just don't sound as good as a wired option.




So, if I am sitting 10 feet from the television and accounting for another 5-10 feet of slack, you are thinking just run a cable 20 feet? Is this going to be problematic for sound quality? I have never really done something like this.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Selling my TH900, because I'm pretty much done with the headphone game, and I can live with the X2 alone. I haven't been using headphones much lately, regardless. I'd rather use the funds on something outside of audio tech.


----------



## Evshrug

frankefrum said:


> So, if I am sitting 10 feet from the television and accounting for another 5-10 feet of slack, you are thinking just run a cable 20 feet? Is this going to be problematic for sound quality? I have never really done something like this.




Well, IMO, over 5' of slack might be excessive, but my Q701 came with a 10m cable (almost 33 feet) and didn't sound any worse than the 3m cable (almost 10 feet), just since I had so much extra slack I had a little spaghetti floor, lol! I just coiled the extra slack by my chair, but generally I used the shorter cable.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Selling my TH900, because I'm pretty much done with the headphone game, and I can live with the X2 alone. I haven't been using headphones much lately, regardless. I'd rather use the funds on something outside of audio tech.



Rent? Food? Ooh! Or a girlfriend!?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah, more like fixing my laptop (it's fine, but the HDMI out isn't working. My Panny VT60 plasma is just sitting there for PS4 duties only atm). That, and paying off Paypal.

I'd like a desktop rig later on too.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> Selling my TH900, because I'm pretty much done with the headphone game, and I can live with the X2 alone. I haven't been using headphones much lately, regardless. I'd rather use the funds on something outside of audio tech.


 
  
 Wow. Those are gorgeous. I'd totally buy them if I could even remotely afford it.
  
 I hope you're not going to stop reviewing cans altogether. You have a great talent, sir.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't promise anything. I have a near zero motivation to do any review. My TH-600 review has been pretty much done months ago, and I can't be arsed to finish the last 15%.


----------



## PacoTaco

hansotek said:


> Wow. Those are gorgeous. I'd totally buy them if I could even remotely afford it.
> 
> I hope you're not going to stop reviewing cans altogether. You have a great talent, sir.


 

 Man, I'd pick them up if I wasn't already getting the ZMF Omni.
  
 I'll miss the new reviews. It was how I got started looking for a headphone for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not saying I won't review, just that at this point in time, I don't have a desire for it.

You guys can at least forget about a TH900 review. Not going to review based on memory, and if it sells, that guarantees it's not getting reviewed. It's already packed up regardless.


----------



## Sayplastic

Do you feel X2 is technically competent enough that you won't be missing your TH-900?


----------



## LewisASTL

Hi, nice roundup. 
 Im used to be a reviewer for mouse, keyboard and other gaming stuff. I got some expertise about that, but often some brand ask me to review headset and i feel a little umcomfortable about that.
 I do not like to introduce myself like an expert in a field when i'm not.
  
 I'm searching for some models to improve my expertise. Im thinking to buy AD700 and superlux hmc681 evo. If you want to add some models to my whishlist you're welcome.
  
 Second question. How would you rate the HyperX Cloud?


----------



## AxelCloris

lewisastl said:


> Second question. How would you rate the HyperX Cloud?


 
  
 My personal favorite closed-back budget-friendly corded headset. That said, headphone > headset unless it's absolutely necessary that you have a non-detachable mic.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> My personal favorite closed-back budget-friendly corded headset. That said, headphone > headset unless it's absolutely necessary that you have a non-detachable mic.


 
 Isn't HyperX Cloud made by Beyerdynamic and sold under Kingston's name?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Isn't HyperX Cloud made by Beyerdynamic and sold under Kingston's name?


 
  
 Nope, it's made for Kingston by the Swedish OEM company QPad. It's a rebrand of their QH-90 headset.
  
 Source: My Kingston/HyperX contact


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Nope, it's made for Kingston by the Swedish OEM company QPad. It's a rebrand of their QH-90 headset.
> 
> Source: My Kingston/HyperX contact


 
 Weird, that design screams Beyer.


----------



## Hansotek

yethal said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, it's made for Kingston by the Swedish OEM company QPad. It's a rebrand of their QH-90 headset.
> ...


 
 Yeah it does. The headbands are basically identical... and the rest isn't much of a stretch either.


----------



## LewisASTL

axelcloris said:


> My personal favorite closed-back budget-friendly corded headset. That said, headphone > headset unless it's absolutely necessary that you have a non-detachable mic.


 
 Did u try some others headphone in the range?


----------



## AxelCloris

lewisastl said:


> Did u try some others headphone in the range?


 
  
 I have tried many headsets. Most of them weren't worth the money. I can't tell you how many headphones I've auditioned, I've lost count.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> I have tried many headsets. *Most of them* weren't worth the money. I can't tell you how many headphones I've auditioned, I've lost count.


 
 So, there were some headsets that were worth the money. Please tell us everything about them.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> So, there were some headsets that were worth the money. Please tell us everything about them.


 
  
 HyperX Cloud
 SkullCandy SLYR
  
 Again, only if a headset is an absolute requirement. Otherwise buy a headphone.
  
 No, I'm not going to do a mini-review on either because I advocate headphone use over headset gaming. Better sound > convenience.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> HyperX Cloud
> SkullCandy SLYR
> 
> Again, only if a headset is an absolute requirement. Otherwise buy a headphone.
> ...


 
 I already have headphones + mic and I love them but whenever I try convince someone to switch to phnes+mic combo (or virtual surround for that matter), the strongest argument I'm faced is convenience. And I understand people who don't want to end up with a cable clutter and just want to have a good sounding convenient setup. So if there are headsets that do actually sound decent, I think it would be beneficial to recommend them to all those people who want their game audio to sound better without sacrificing ease of use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sayplastic said:


> Do you feel X2 is technically competent enough that you won't be missing your TH-900?




Yes. I'm 100% happy with my X2, and if it ever broke, I'd buy the X2 right back.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Yes. I'm 100% happy with my X2, and if it ever broke, I'd buy the X2 right back.




So is the TH900 more of a headphone that can be owned for just a little while and enjoy its sound signature but afterwards ypu realize how expensive it is that the X2 overall is the better headphone? And the X2 is a grwat bang for buck headphone.

In other words, the TH900 was not meant to be owned for a long time?


----------



## big-country

How can i run my Magni 2 uber and pair it with my mixamp pro with the xb1?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> So is the TH900 more of a headphone that can be owned for just a little while and enjoy its sound signature but afterwards ypu realize how expensive it is that the X2 overall is the better headphone? And the X2 is a grwat bang for buck headphone.
> 
> In other words, the TH900 was not meant to be owned for a long time?




That's not it at all. It's the "I need to stop throwing away money on things I rarely use. I only need ONE headphone, and I could do some good with the cash I get from selling the TH900. I'll miss it, as it was near perfection, but I'm not about pursuing perfection anymore."

Also helped that the X2 has velour pads. I've only said it a million times, but no matter how good leather pads are, I will never be 100% happy with any unless they are velour pads, so I found myself picking up the X2 more because of it.

If the TH900 had velour pads with the same sound, it'd be a lot more difficult on letting them go.


----------



## LewisASTL

mad lust envy said:


> Yes. I'm 100% happy with my X2, and if it ever broke, I'd buy the X2 right back.


 
  
 Di you try the HyperX Cloud yet? or the equivalent takstar pro80?
  
  


axelcloris said:


> HyperX Cloud
> SkullCandy SLYR
> 
> Again, only if a headset is an absolute requirement. Otherwise buy a headphone.
> ...


 
  
 I got both series of cloud. Im only eager to know how an expert judge them in comparison to some famous headset. I need a light in my darkness


----------



## Evshrug

lewisastl said:


> Did u try some others headphone in the range?



The Creative Aurvana Live! and Live2 are also decent around that price. I've read a few people recommend a headphone by Takstar or Samson, but those two I haven't heard for myself. Skullcandy actually came out with a decent headphone in the SLYR headset, you may find a demo set at Target, Best Buy, GameStop, or even Office Depot, but keep in mind that those demo headsets tend to be abused by over 100 people a week. I think the SLYR is a partially open headphone... But it sounds pretty good (smooth and warm).

A few of these have reviews in the guide (first page).

A personal observation and opinion: I think it's pretty easy to find a competent headphone that is "good enough." But I need something special about the sound to really ENJOY it, good enough isn't "good enough." So, that really covers most closed headphones for me (comfort and heat reasons), but the headphones I keep and use for a year or years is one that brings a little unique magic every time I put them on, and is comfortable not to distract me. I don't have to spend astronomical sums to "get there," but I almost feel like it's a waste to settle for a sub-$100 headphone... At that point you might as well just stick with a Koss KSC 75.


----------



## roguepp88

mad lust envy said:


> Selling my TH900, because I'm pretty much done with the headphone game, and I can live with the X2 alone. I haven't been using headphones much lately, regardless. I'd rather use the funds on something outside of audio tech.


 
 Wow, this is the thread that I enjoy following the most in Head-fi.
 I learnt a lot from this thread and definitely had a few purchases that were recommended solely by Mad Lust yourself.
  
 Hope you find a new hobby that isn't as expensive to follow.
 And hope you do post some reviews once in a while as I will definitely still be following this thread.
 (No pressure though, as I would rather see a fellow music/gaming enthusiast enjoy music/headphones without the pressure of doing reviews in the future!)


----------



## manywelps

If I'm understanding this correctly... I should have all the games and windows itself set to surround... but the sound card control panel itself set to headphones?
  
 So: (5.1/7.1surround setting) windows -> (headphones setting) X-Fi card (optical out)-> Uberfrost -> Asgard 2 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, that's the idea, and make sure your card has the surround toggle enabled.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Any thought on the Turtle Beach XP Seven Headset? I noticed it was in use lot during E3 this year. Especially for the battlefront demo.


----------



## Evshrug

helvetica bold said:


> Any thought on the Turtle Beach XP Seven Headset? I noticed it was in use lot during E3 this year. Especially for the battlefront demo.



The surround processor part is supposed to be a good mixamp competitor (can mix game/chat audio, as well as a bunch of eq gimmicks), but the headset itself is kinda ho-hum Zzz...


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> The surround processor part is supposed to be a good mixamp competitor (can mix game/chat audio, as well as a bunch of eq gimmicks), but the headset itself is kinda ho-hum Zzz...




This. To put in terms of SQ, all TB headsets so far sound like poo. Not sure why the need for a TB headset is asked about around here lol


----------



## Helvetica bold

Okay I'll never ask about TB headphones again!  But I thought the amp looked interesting on the XP Seven. DICE does an amazing job w/ sound design and I figured if they're using this headset for Battlefront at E3 how bad can it be!?!?


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> Okay I'll never ask about TB headphones again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Lol dont let yourself go with the design and marketing and all the stuff. Yes, DICE has done a good job with its sound in BF games but that doesnt mean that a TB headset will do wonders. Trust me, I had one.........worst thing ever bought and this was before I knew about this place. I have even tried some of them at Best Buy and they are all ewww. They seem to over emphasize alot on the bass and the soundstage sounds congested. All or mostly all of them are closed back as well. Uncomfortable, cheaply made.

 Just follow this thread and you will never think about TB ever again.
  
 But like I said. The only reason they used TB is because they are cheap, they are sponsoring......and thats money. Thats just it.
  
 You are new, so you wont understand what some of us are saying until you try something that is recommended in here.
  
 Trust me, you will never go back to TB or any other "headset" again. If any headset is worth it, I would only go with the Hyper X cloud, which I read does a pretty good job and the Sennheiser G4ME series headsets. Maybe the Auido Technica headsets as well but most of us can get by with one of the Headphones MLE has reviewed.

 Right now, Im using the Philips Fidelio X2. My K7XX is looking at me like "why you do dis?" but I love it as well.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Oh I'm new but I know what's going on (it might look like I don't). 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Last month I bought the Audio Technic AD700x and I have the mix amp 5.8.I love it.
 Like I said I was just curious because TB was used for Battlefront. cheers!


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> Oh I'm new but I know what's going on (it might look like I don't).    Last month I bought the Audio Technic AD700x and I have the mix amp 5.8.I love it.
> Like I said I was just curious because TB was used for Battlefront. cheers!




Thats a good set up right there. But still wether its DICE, LevelCap or anyone else using TB, that doesnt mean ita the best or that the particular item is top notch quality. Dont assume because a big company that has implemented good quality audio into games that the headsets they are using are superb. Like I said, most headsets out there are just plain marketing, with a very few select headsets that are an exception. Like I said, TB probably sponsors them and those SWBF headsets are probably cheap to make, cheap enough to give some for free. I dont expect TB to make something of greater quality anytime or ever. 

And most of us are really not going to try any of those TB headsets ever....mainly because Im sure many of us have use them once or twice and had a bad experience with them as well. 

In my opinion, even if the best gamer in FPS, in the world...was using TB....It still wouldnt make me buy one.

Its just a given that TB is know to not make any good headsets after all...build quality and sound quality.

It may sound like a rant but Im just being true and honest that people shouldnt fall for stuff like that. 

Thats why even MLE doent do any heavy comparisons between headphones on his guide because each of those headphones having a 7 8 9 or 10 rating have a good chance of being a superb headphone and all of them will always have a con.

When you look at his ratings, it shouldnt be about which is the best or almost perfect but more of a base line figure of what you might like in your sound. 

I would say in my opinion, anything above a rating of 7 is good enough for gaming and you will be enjoying it fully. However, there may be exceptions and all due to price difference and what not but most people seem to want to enjoy sound and feel immersive.

Im already getting out of topic but yeah....

Dont get fooled by marketing and by people who use "elite" products


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> That's not it at all. It's the "I need to stop throwing away money on things I rarely use. I only need ONE headphone, and I could do some good with the cash I get from selling the TH900. I'll miss it, as it was near perfection, but I'm not about pursuing perfection anymore."
> 
> Also helped that the X2 has velour pads. I've only said it a million times, but no matter how good leather pads are, I will never be 100% happy with any unless they are velour pads, so I found myself picking up the X2 more because of it.
> 
> If the TH900 had velour pads with the same sound, it'd be a lot more difficult on letting them go.


 
  
 So you traded a $1200 headphone for a $100 headset? what?


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> So you traded a $1200 headphone for a $100 headset? what?


 
 More like 270$ headphone + 35$ microphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> So you traded a $1200 headphone for a $100 headset? what?




If you see in my signature, I own the Fidelio X2. NOT a $100 headset. And I owned the X2 a little before the TH900. It's gotten more use as well, since I heavily prefer velour pads on my headphones. It's a comfort/personal choice.


----------



## kayan

Does anyone who has a x2 know if it's safe to stick the magnet to the metal mesh on the side of the headphone? I have an Antlion modmic, and the surface is too rough for the adhesive, but the magnet would totally work.


----------



## PacoTaco

kayan said:


> Does anyone who has a x2 know if it's safe to stick the magnet to the metal mesh on the side of the headphone? I have an Antlion modmic, and the surface is too rough for the adhesive, but the magnet would totally work.


 
 Yes, it won't do anything to the headphone.
  
 At the same time, I think it would simpler to add the V-moda boom mic to it: http://www.amazon.com/V-MODA-BoomPro-Gaming-Headset-Headphone/dp/B00BJ17WKK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435595348&sr=8-1&keywords=V-moda+boom+mic .


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> If you see in my signature, I own the Fidelio X2. NOT a $100 headset. And I owned the X2 a little before the TH900. It's gotten more use as well, since I heavily prefer velour pads on my headphones. It's a comfort/personal choice.


 
  
 Yah, a lot of people in our hobby forget that there are only incremental improvements as you get higher and higher into price-ranges. The only exceptions to that are planars (though HiFiman has been changing that lately,) electro-stats, and the HD800. Though, planars are dropping in overall price lately with the MrSpeakers stuff being on sale (even though they're discontinued,) Oppo releasing the PM-3, Zach's ZMF Headphones, and HiFiman's HE400i/s. I'm not counting the HE1000 though, as that headphone is incredibly over priced.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> It may sound like a rant but Im just being true and honest that people shouldnt fall for stuff like that.
> 
> Thats why even MLE doent do any heavy comparisons between headphones on his guide because each of those headphones having a 7 8 9 or 10 rating have a good chance of being a superb headphone and all of them will always have a con.
> 
> Dont get fooled by marketing and by people who use "elite" products




Just a little bit of a rant, but it's ok so long as you keep the thread inviting, and make clear that you offer opinions and advice with the intention of being helpful.

Mad did review one Turtle Beach headset, the X12 I believe (double-check me on the first post), he liked the sound signature but not the comfort, durability (my one buddy went through about one TB headset per year during our CoD years), and priceerformance ratio. I'll add that I thought the mic sensitivity was pretty good (sometimes too strong!), but I personally wouldn't buy one.

One of my most recommended surround processors is a Turtle Beach product, the original DSS. Best priceerformance ratio unit that is a combo DSP with headphone surround, DAC, and Amp. I bet the amp/mixer unit that comes with the XP Seven could be a good entry-level unit, also the TAC (not going to be available for awhile). The new wireless headsets from TB for the PS4 and XBO are, so far, pretty poor.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be fair there are some I've tried that sound very good, but the build is highly suspect. I think Z11. I reviewed the Z2 which was horrible, and I briefly owned the PX21 which sounded good but the internal amp was too hissy, enough to be distracting.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Just a little bit of a rant, but it's ok so long as you keep the thread inviting, and make clear that you offer opinions and advice with the intention of being helpful.
> 
> Mad did review one Turtle Beach headset, the X12 I believe (double-check me on the first post), he liked the sound signature but not the comfort, durability (my one buddy went through about one TB headset per year during our CoD years), and priceerformance ratio. I'll add that I thought the mic sensitivity was pretty good (sometimes too strong!), but I personally wouldn't buy one.
> 
> One of my most recommended surround processors is a Turtle Beach product, the original DSS. Best priceerformance ratio unit that is a combo DSP with headphone surround, DAC, and Amp. I bet the amp/mixer unit that comes with the XP Seven could be a good entry-level unit, also the TAC (not going to be available for awhile). The new wireless headsets from TB for the PS4 and XBO are, so far, pretty poor.


 
 Not trying to push away people. Im just stating my opinion of what TB is all about, overall and I guess you could say I have had bad experiences with them that I just cant look at TB headsets the same way I use to. Also, alot of people and mabye some new people in here, get carried away with marketing. Of course, all headphones have some sort of marketing going on around including product boxes, youtube reviews, website reviews, etc, etc. But alot of reviews or marketing, just sell the product and not be fully honest. Now the DSS, is a good surround processor, I cant argue with that. I was just stating that their headphones are bleh (IMO).

 I have the PX21......its somewhere, dont know where but I hated that thing. The sliders or cups would slide down and have to readjust them after every match in BF3, mic was way too sensitive and friends would say my voice sounded a bit weird and sometimes it wouldnt pick up my voice. The pads would get my ears hot and the clamping would give me a headache after an hour of playing. Only reason I used it was because it was given to me as a gift since my previous headset just went poo. Sound quality, if I remember correctly, didnt sound that great to me....I mean it was ok but lack excitement for me. But when I got the Fidelio X1 and the MA900.......I was amazed. I might have to look for them and see how they sound now, maybe they sound worse now lol

 The quality felt cheap on those TB. My friend had the same one and after a year, it has been taped up on different parts of the cable, mic and one side of the earcup doesnt hold in place anymore and just added more tape lol. Of course, he doesnt use them anymore since he now uses a pair of X1.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> To be fair there are some I've tried that sound very good, but the build is highly suspect. I think Z11. I reviewed the Z2 which was horrible, and I briefly owned the PX21 which sounded good but the internal amp was too hissy, enough to be distracting.


 
 Have you ever tried any high end IEM for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> Have you ever tried any high end IEM for gaming?




I'm thinking about trying it.
The challenges are soundstage size (bigger challenge for IEMs than headphones!), more strict amping requirements (need low-ohm output impedance because of all the crossovers, low-gain but high current amps), and fit is really picky. Even a custom IEM, some ears will be too small/narrow for some of the tri-bore designs, and some people make a lot of earwax if they insert something into their ears.

That said, imaging (which can directly benefit positional surround) can be very focused and precise with IEMs, and if you don't make tons of earwax CIEMs can be the most comfortable long-session headphones on the market (especially the softer silicone ones or the Westone with the soft tip section). No heat problems of closed headphones, but better isolation.

If you HAVE a pair of IEMs and you want to try custom, some companies like InEarz and CustomEar might offer a CIEM conversion of your model... Contact them and ask, find a good audiologist while you're at it.

I was recently using the bargain Audeo Phonak PFE-022 with my X7 for gaming when my ears got hot, physically it was a nice relief. I doubt they could be converted to customs though, since a lot of the tuning is done by the shell and they have interchangeable filters that change the sound signature. I'm going to have to try with my Etymotic ER•6i, I remember soundstage is all "in your head" because the presentation is very forward, but separation and layering of depth were very good, and imaging was "god-like." My ears are funny though, I think I preferred the very deep-inserting large tips in my ears, but I have to go through a ritual of cleaning them after every use (which is why I've had them for almost 10 years!!) and I REALLY can't hear anything else when I have them on, and I have to spend a few seconds adjusting them every time I put them on.


----------



## pervysage

Is the Soundblaster X7 worth getting for an upgrade in audio quality for game consoles? (currently using a Mixamp Pro)


----------



## Evshrug

pervysage said:


> Is the Soundblaster X7 worth getting for an upgrade in audio quality for game consoles? (currently using a Mixamp Pro)



It is technically an upgrade in sound quality, though if it's worth it to you is entirely personal opinion. I very much enjoy mine.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## rudyae86

Cant see video at work, what is this about? Is it their new headphone that has yellow accents and huge earpads?


----------



## Change is Good

pervysage said:


> Is the Soundblaster X7 worth getting for an upgrade in audio quality for game consoles? (currently using a Mixamp Pro)







evshrug said:


> It is technically an upgrade in sound quality, though if it's worth it to you is entirely personal opinion. I very much enjoy mine.




Yes, entity subjective. Ev swears by it, but I've also read others say they wish they would have not bothered with it due to it's complicated setup on consoles, among other things.

Just make sure you do your research and get different opinions on it, pervy.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Yes, entity subjective. Ev swears by it, but I've also read others say they wish they would have not bothered with it due to it's complicated setup on consoles, among other things.
> 
> Just make sure you do your research and get different opinions on it, pervy.




Right, like MLE's frustrations with trying to connect extra amps and direct-mode for PC-sourced music, some people having intermittent shutoff issues with older firmware (new firmware fixed this), and the general thing about how you can't use the X7's built-in mic with a console... You have to connect a mic to the PS4 via USB or controller. If you don't use a mic or already have a USB one, console setup is very simple. But put on a pair of AKG K612 or Oppo PM-3, start up a game of The Last of Us, Destiny, or Batman, and you're gonna be in for some very impressive sound quality.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Cant see video at work, what is this about? Is it their new headphone that has yellow accents and huge earpads?



There are two yellow marks on the headband. The guy in the video is clearly excited, but I can't tell what other headphones he's heard to compare it to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I re did the firmware, and no longer have shutoff issues, but the X7 still pops/distorts sound through usb, has a problem connecting when it goes into it's sleep mode, etc. It's a mess.


----------



## rudyae86

martin vegas said:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




 Okay saw the video. Not sure if he is serious though. Not saying that AKG is bad but awesome, I love the K7XX but im using the X2 right now lol.

 Now, with what he said about its pricing and that you will never go back to anything else.......well I dont know but I can surely say BS, especially if it has noise canceling, which could make things better or worse.....

 I have not tried any headphone above the 500 dollar price point nor 1k but for something that small, how much would it cost?

 it looks almost like a portable but almost like something you would rather keep at home. It does catch my attention though but this guy.....made it seem like its the best in the world.

 Guess we will wait and see what this is about..........


----------



## Evshrug

Let me put it this way... Noise canceling is all about canceling at least some of the sound. It might be great in certain environments, and better than earbuds, but it's not going to be reference like an HD800, Planar Magnetc driver, or electrostat. IMO it looks like a response to the Momentum 2, a Bluetooth version of the K545 or similar.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> Let me put it this way... Noise canceling is all about canceling at least some of the sound. It might be great in certain environments, and better than earbuds, but it's not going to be reference like an HD800, Planar Magnetc driver, or electrostat. IMO it looks like a response to the Momentum 2, a Bluetooth version of the K545 or similar.



It's important to remember that for many listeners, a sufficiently excellent noise canceling headphone is going to absolutely kill in a loud trade show environment. I'm sure many Head-fr'ers would have much harsher critiques.


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> There are two yellow marks on the headband. The guy in the video is clearly excited, but I can't tell what other headphones he's heard to compare it to.


 

 It's the new Quincy Jones AKG headphones with built-in equalizer and auto-calibration..might be a bit out of peoples price range though $1499! big write up on them at what hifi AKG N90Q hands on, i tried but it won't let me post the link!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## rudyae86

martin vegas said:


> It's the new Quincy Jones AKG headphones with built-in equalizer and auto-calibration..might be a bit out of peoples price range though $1499! big write up on them at what hifi AKG N90Q hands on, i tried but it won't let me post the link!




Wait so is this like an All in One solution? Does it require an amp? Almost seems like it has a DAC/Amp. Has different modes like 2.1 and 5.1 surround sound.

I mean it looks nice and the features it carries seem very good.....but the price....yikes. Even then, Im a bit fearful of headphones like these. Something within it fails and all fails, compared to our regular headphones which can be more easily fixed and cheaper to fix as well. The auto calibration seems like a cool feature, dont know how it actually works or determines what for what...


----------



## Evshrug

hansotek said:


> It's important to remember that for many listeners, a sufficiently excellent noise canceling headphone is going to absolutely kill in a loud trade show environment. I'm sure many Head-fr'ers would have much harsher critiques.




Well going by price alone, it looks like AKG is making a bigger effort than I've ever heard of before. Who knows, maybe AKG has invested enough to change the game of what can be expected from an ANC headphone? I am a big AKG fan, but any ANC headphone would have a LOT to prove to me.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Is the TB DSS or DSS2 better than the Mixamp 5.8? What would be better with a new AD700x and a PS4?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Well going by price alone, it looks like AKG is making a bigger effort than I've ever heard of before. Who knows, maybe AKG has invested enough to change the game of what can be expected from an ANC headphone? I am a big AKG fan, but any ANC headphone would have a LOT to prove to me.


 
 Same here. With many stuff I have read, well experiences from people.....Having ANC on a headphone concerns me alot. I hope AKG re-defines ANC and has made great strides into getting rid of most troubles caused by ANC technology. To some, those annoyances are probably of less importance or they can live with it but if you are the few that are looking for high end quality while eliminating every annoyance possible, well, AKG better have done something really good for this headphone to cost 1500 plus tax and deliver superb quality.


----------



## AxelCloris

Dunno if anyone has been looking for one of the $200 Amazon Warehouse Deals X2 headphones but there will be one available soon. I'm returning mine due to it causing headaches for extended gaming sessions. The convenience of a BoomPro isn't worth a throbbing skull.


----------



## lenroot77

helvetica bold said:


> Is the TB DSS or DSS2 better than the Mixamp 5.8? What would be better with a new AD700x and a PS4?




The dss has a bit more power and less hiss than the mixamp. However it may limit your chat options.
Dss2 does not use true Dolby headphone. I have not heard it myself but I've read it is not as good as the original dss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

axelcloris said:


> Dunno if anyone has been looking for one of the $200 Amazon Warehouse Deals X2 headphones but there will be one available soon. I'm returning mine due to it causing headaches for extended gaming sessions. The convenience of a BoomPro isn't worth a throbbing skull.




I assume you're complaining about the clamp which is EASILY remedied by stretching the headband out. The headband has steel rods, and can easily form to your needs.

Come on Axel, you know better. I do agree, the X2 is QUITE clampy at first. Just as are so many headphones. Not many are as easily fixed as the X2, however.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I assume you're complaining about the clamp which is EASILY remedied by stretching the headband out. The headband has steel rods, and can easily form to your needs.
> 
> Come on Axel, you know better.


 
  
 No, it's not a horizontal clamping issue. These were an AWD purchase and the clamp force is pretty light, so perhaps whoever had them first stretched the headband. I believe that my issue stems from weight distribution. The 400i are only 10g lighter than the X2 but in use they feel so much lighter because of how they hug the head.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, That's odd. Though I guess I can't say anything. Heavy headphones do bother the hell out of my neck, though I never had an issue with the X2. I do admit it's on the hefty side.


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> No, it's not a horizontal clamping issue. These were an AWD purchase and the clamp force is pretty light, so perhaps whoever had them first stretched the headband. I believe that my issue stems from weight distribution. The 400i are only 10g lighter than the X2 but in use they feel so much lighter because of how they hug the head.


 
 I got an X2 from AWD as well. My feels a bit loose, but I dont think that previous owner stretched it out. The headband is bigger at top, and I dont have a big round head but more elongated from top to bottom. But Honestly it fits me better. If I recall, the X1 clamping made my head hurt the first month or two...afterwards, I think it just shaped to my head. This one doesnt hurt my head at all but does feel a wee bit loose, especially when I shake my head but it doesnt fall off or move out of place....not that I plan to do that anyways while watching movies or gaming lol.
  
 Does anyone else with a slim face experience the same as I do?
  
 I still kind of wish they made the X2 with an adjustable headband...maybe X3 will have that?
  
 Comparing clamp force with my K7XX, it feels slightly tighter than the X2 but headphone still wobbles, just a wee bit if I shake my head hard. But during normal usage, nothing to worry about.
  
 And like you said at the end, it could be weight distribution also. With the K7XX, it feels a bit better in fit but the clamping is stronger than the X2 and the X2, well its the opposite, less clamp but slightly looser fit.
  
 Thus why I dont get how a headphone of 200 and above dont have adjustable headband. Am I missing something as to why they dont use adjustable headbands with these headphones?


----------



## Evshrug

Well the whole point of the AKG headbands are to self-adjust, within a reasonable range. I have heard talk of the elastic that provides tension between strap and arc assembly getting worn out and overly loose, a doable but annoying replacement. Luckily I never felt like I had reached a point where I needed to change the elastic.

I'm almost annoyed at how much I'm enjoying the PM-3. Let's count the Evs-Preferences strikes against it: it's a closed headphone, with pleather earpads, the pads are narrow enough to sit partially on-ear, heavier than the AKGs. Oh, and people talk about how their forward soundstage means their soundstage width is only average, and I'm a soundstage junkie cuz I likes me ma gaemz.

Automatically, just not how I pictured spending money.

But someone offered them to me in trade, like new barely used. When I find just the perfect angle, they still get warm and have the sealed feeling of closed headphones, they are comfortable enough for an hour and a half or two without a break (most comfy closed headphone I've tried yet). And they just sound so gooooood... clearer than the AKG K712 (wait, what? The AKG didn't seem wooly before!). The PM-3 is more immediate, punchy in bass and treble but somehow so refined to keep from sounding harsh. Soundstage is pretty easily perceptible, the PM-3 has a "head stage" that doesn't project beyond your skull and really seem to come from outside, but it has an involving sound that sucks you in and easily images separate depths and distances.

Kicked ass in a bunch of games of CoD: Ghosts (I blame Army-Firedawg) with the X7. Not as natural as my AKG K612 in holographic imaging, but easy to pick out running footsteps among your own and background gunfire elsewhere on the map. But seriously guys, musically it sucks you in.

And I'm finding it tough to let go. Doesn't help that Apple Music just opened up my library.


----------



## Yethal

https://www.musikhaus-korn.de/de/reloop-rhm-10-kopfhoerer-mikrofon-rhp-serie/pd/31740
  
 This looks like a viable alternative to V-moda Boom Pro and Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear.
  
 Just going to leave this here. I hope somebody with better German skills than mine can translate harder to understand parts.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> Well the whole point of the AKG headbands are to self-adjust, within a reasonable range. I have heard talk of the elastic that provides tension between strap and arc assembly getting worn out and overly loose, a doable but annoying replacement. Luckily I never felt like I had reached a point where I needed to change the elastic.
> 
> I'm almost annoyed at how much I'm enjoying the PM-3. Let's count the Evs-Preferences strikes against it: it's a closed headphone, with pleather earpads, the pads are narrow enough to sit partially on-ear, heavier than the AKGs. Oh, and people talk about how their forward soundstage means their soundstage width is only average, and I'm a soundstage junkie cuz I likes me ma gaemz.
> 
> ...



This is great to hear. I have a pair of PM-3s arriving on Wednesday!


----------



## Yethal

Guys, is possible to output SBX processed sound via S/PDIF using the X7. Head over to this: ​ thread for more info because I don't want to paste it all again.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Guys, is possible to output SBX processed sound via S/PDIF using the X7. Head over to this: ​ thread for more info because I don't want to paste it all again.


 
  
 Here's the link to Yethal's post. The link he included takes you to the OP.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/745916/sound-blaster-x7-impressions-thoughts/210#post_11738093
  
 A note: This is for PC gamers. Console gamers can ignore the link altogether because it still won't let you send SBX-processed audio digitally to an external DAC when playing on console.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Here's the link to Yethal's post. The link he included takes you to the OP.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/745916/sound-blaster-x7-impressions-thoughts/210#post_11738093
> 
> A note: This is for PC gamers. Console gamers can ignore the link altogether because it still won't let you send SBX-processed audio digitally to an external DAC when playing on console.


 
 I'll test the console compatibility and report right away.


----------



## Yethal

Okay, I did some testing. There are good news and the bad news.
  
*The good news:*
 It does actually work.
 It does work with consoles (requires a powered PC nearby but it does actually output sound.) You were wrong about that one @AxelCloris
 Reproduction steps are exactly the same as posted earlier/
  
*The bad news:*
 Since the volume is digital controlled it requires the Speakers volume to be set to 100% in Creative control panel in order to be audible. Also, it will simultaneously output to any speakers/headphones it can find so I recommend plugging an extension cable/an adapter/ whatever to fool the X7 into thinking it has a pair of headphones connected.
  
What U Hear device only accepts up to 16/48 samples so the sample quality might be lowered   I was wrong, it accepts all kinds of sampling rates. Not sure what went wrong the first time.


----------



## RyuShinEX

Hello everyone, a first timer here. Nice to meet everyone of you.
  
 Where do I look for using a ATH-M50 and AT2020 USB to xbox one & ps4?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Okay, I did some testing. There are good news and the bad news.
> 
> *The good news:*
> It does actually work.
> ...


 
  
 If it requires a PC be nearby then in my book it's not a solution fit for console gaming. I already don't like that I can't get a device with SBX and a good DAC and a good amp in one box. Running from the X7 to a DAC/amp combo could work for me (just) but I do not want to have an X7, a DAC/amp, AND a computer just to get SBX processing on a PS4. I'll stick with my Mixamp as I see no reason to spend $3-400 on a device that can't do what I want it to do. The 16/48 max is just a kick in the nuts after the excessive work required to obtain basic results.
  
 Give me a single system that can process the majority of digital codecs through a great DAC/DSP with a mid tier amp and I'll throw $4-500 at that device all day every day in seconds. That's a solution, what you've proposed isn't. For the record, the steps you mentioned can be done with any Creative SBX device. It doesn't need to be their expensive X7 in the chain. The Recon3D is a good deal cheaper and can do the exact same.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> If it requires a PC be nearby then in my book it's not a solution fit for console gaming. I already don't like that I can't get a device with SBX and a good DAC and a good amp in one box. Running from the X7 to a DAC/amp combo could work for me (just) but I do not want to have an X7, a DAC/amp, AND a computer just to get SBX processing on a PS4. I'll stick with my Mixamp as I see no reason to spend $3-400 on a device that can't do what I want it to do. The 16/48 max is just a kick in the nuts after the excessive work required to obtain basic results.
> 
> Give me a single system that can process the majority of digital codecs through a great DAC/DSP with a mid tier amp and I'll throw $4-500 at that device all day every day in seconds. That's a solution, what you've proposed isn't. For the record, the steps you mentioned can be done with any Creative SBX device. It doesn't need to be their expensive X7 in the chain. The Recon3D is a good deal cheaper and can do the exact same.


 
 I think I was doing something wrong earlier as I can now set What U hear device to whatever sample quality I want.
 As for Your other complaints I totally understand them as this is not an easy solution. However, the closest thing to a device You evisioned is 2900$ Smyth Realizer. The X7 is the second closest.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Just played a few rounds of BF4 w/ the Hyperx Cloud 2 connected to mixamp tx.
I must say the astro mixamp and the cloud 2 make a nice combo. Lots of bass and good 
positional audio. Not a huge soundstage like my AD700x but it sounds impressive.
I thought someone mentioned here about the mixamp not having enough power
But it sure does. Sounds great.


----------



## jincuteguy

So I have the ZXR sound card and it can do Dolby Digital Live encoded out to the OPtical.  So what hardware do I need in order to get that Dolby Digital Live to work without using a Receiver? 
  
 Is Astro MixAmp the only hardware that work?
  
 Basically I just want my sound card to encode surround sound into Dolby Digital Live, then spit out via the Optical output, then what do I need to connect it to in order to get the Surround Sound for games? thx.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> So I have the ZXR sound card and it can do Dolby Digital Live encoded out to the OPtical.  So what hardware do I need in order to get that Dolby Digital Live to work without using a Receiver?
> 
> Is Astro MixAmp the only hardware that work?
> 
> Basically I just want my sound card to encode surround sound into Dolby Digital Live, then spit out via the Optical output, then what do I need to connect it to in order to get the Surround Sound for games? thx.


 
 ZXR has it's own surround built in, You don't need another piece of hardware.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> ZXR has it's own surround built in, You don't need another piece of hardware.


 
 Yes I know, but I want to do it that way so I can learn.  
 I just want to know after you encode the game sounds to Dolby Digital Live, then what do you need in order to get that sound? I know you just hook up the Astro Gaming MIx amp , but is the Astro MIxamp the only thing out there on the market right now?


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> Just played a few rounds of BF4 w/ the Hyperx Cloud 2 connected to mixamp tx.
> I must say the astro mixamp and the cloud 2 make a nice combo. Lots of bass and good
> positional audio. Not a huge soundstage like my AD700x but it sounds impressive.
> I thought someone mentioned here about the mixamp not having enough power
> But it sure does. Sounds great.


 
 WEll the Mix Amp has enought power to drive 32 to 64ohm headphones...usually. Your Hyper X cloud doesnt require that much juice nor does the AD700X.
  
 If you were to plug in something like an HD600..........well, that wont work quite well.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Well the whole point of the AKG headbands are to self-adjust, within a reasonable range. I have heard talk of the elastic that provides tension between strap and arc assembly getting worn out and overly loose, a doable but annoying replacement. Luckily I never felt like I had reached a point where I needed to change the elastic.
> 
> I'm almost annoyed at how much I'm enjoying the PM-3. Let's count the Evs-Preferences strikes against it: it's a closed headphone, with pleather earpads, the pads are narrow enough to sit partially on-ear, heavier than the AKGs. Oh, and people talk about how their forward soundstage means their soundstage width is only average, and I'm a soundstage junkie cuz I likes me ma gaemz.
> 
> ...


 


 Yes, that is how I felt with what you said........lol


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Yes I know, but I want to do it that way so I can learn.
> I just want to know after you encode the game sounds to Dolby Digital Live, then what do you need in order to get that sound? I know you just hook up the Astro Gaming MIx amp , but is the Astro MIxamp the only thing out there on the market right now?


 
 Aside from the Mixamp there are a few more devices that accept Dolby Digital Live input. You can find a full list in the first post of this thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In case anyone is wondering, PC games don't need Dolby Digital to have proper surround with the X7/SBX. Console games DO however.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> In case anyone is wondering, PC games don't need Dolby Digital to have proper surround with the X7/SBX. Console games DO however.


 
 Unless You have Smyth Realizer, then 7.1 LPCM will do fine


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Yes, that is how I felt with what you said........lol




Yeeeeeeah that's basically the expression I was making last night, listening in the dark, muttering "this wasn't the plan, this wasn't the plan, this..." and then I posted. And lost sense of self. And then it was 1:52am.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> If it requires a PC be nearby then in my book it's not a solution fit for console gaming. I already don't like that I can't get a device with SBX and a good DAC and a good amp in one box. Running from the X7 to a DAC/amp combo could work for me (just) but I do not want to have an X7, a DAC/amp, AND a computer just to get SBX processing on a PS4. *I'll stick with my Mixamp as I see no reason to spend $3-400 on a device that can't do what I want it to do.* The 16/48 max is just a kick in the nuts after the excessive work required to obtain basic results.
> 
> Give me a single system that can process the majority of digital codecs through a great DAC/DSP with a mid tier amp and I'll throw $4-500 at that device all day every day in seconds. That's a solution, what you've proposed isn't. For the record, the steps you mentioned can be done with any Creative SBX device. It doesn't need to be their expensive X7 in the chain. The Recon3D is a good deal cheaper and can do the exact same.




+1


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Yeeeeeeah that's basically the expression I was making last night, listening in the dark, muttering "this wasn't the plan, this wasn't the plan, this..." and then I posted. And lost sense of self. And then it was 1:52am.


 
 Yeah, lots of crazy stuff happens around that hour. Maybe you were just hallucinating lol
  
 But dam, now I want to try them as well......nope, I have to really just not buy a new headphone right now. Im okay with the K7XX and X2 being my main headphones for now.
  
 But I mean, I can still..........no maybe I shouldn't. Or else I will be stuck in Limbo lol


----------



## Change is Good

I had fun with the PM-3 during my one week with it. Beast of a closed headphone, but I was rather surprised at how small it is. Kind of similar to the m50x in size.

Quick and punchy bass was too light, however, for my borderline taste in closed headphones. Great for gaming, though...


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> In case anyone is wondering, PC games don't need Dolby Digital to have proper surround with the X7/SBX. Console games DO however.


 
 How do you do that? how do you setup properly for PC surround sound for games with an SBX soundcard like the SoundBlaster ZxR?  
 I thought the best surround sound for gaming is through Dolby Digital Live and a decoder ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

From my experiences, games don't guarantee DDL. Pretty sure DDL is more for stuff like DVDs and what have you. Basically, just set your sound to be 5.1/7.1, and your soundcard to do SBX/Dolby headphone/etc.

I say this because my X7, as well as my older Dolby Headphone enabled receiver wouldn't light up the Dolby Digital sign when playing PC games, though I was definitely getting proper surround. They would light up for console games/movies though.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> From my experiences, games don't guarantee DDL. Pretty sure DDL is more for stuff like DVDs and what have you. Basically, just set your sound to be 5.1/7.1, and your soundcard to do SBX/Dolby headphone/etc.
> 
> I say this because my X7, as well as my older Dolby Headphone enabled receiver wouldn't light up the Dolby Digital sign when playing PC games, though I was definitely getting proper surround. They would light up for console games/movies though.


 
 Dolby Digital Live is different from Dolby Digital from DVDs , Blueray etc.  They are already pre-encoded in the DVD itself. Dolby Digital Live encodes "on the fly", that's why it's use for gaming cause everything is changing in game so you need
 something that can do it on the fly.
  
 That's cause you didn't hook up your X7 using Optical to your soundcard.  And I don't know if the X7 can even decodes Dolby Digital Live, if it can't, then it doesn't work.   And your sound card must have Dolby Digital Live encodes, basically it's a software that encodes all the sounds whether it 5.1 or whatever, to a single digital bitstream, then what you need is a Dolby digital Live decoder such as the Astro Mixamp to decode the bitstream.  
 That's how Dolby Digital Live works.  You're confused Dolby Digital with Dolby Digital Live.  Dolby Digital Live means it encodes the sounds from 5.1 in the game on the fly (good for games cause always changing), then spits out digital bits, then u need a decoder to decode that to get the suround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't go too far into the PC side of things, as it's secondary to m main use: consoles, though lately I have been gaming a lot more on PC.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> I don't go too far into the PC side of things, as it's secondary to m main use: consoles, though lately I have been gaming a lot more on PC.


 
 What headphone / headset are u using right now for PC gaming? I know you'r[e using the Soundblaster X7, but do you hook it up to your soundcard and what soundcard are u using? just wondering


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Why would I do that? The X7 is basically an external soundcard. It is its own dac/amp. Using the X7 means you're not using whatever soundcard you have, unless you are using the analog inputs on the X7.

I use the X2 as my headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Why would I do that? The X7 is basically an external soundcard. It is its own dac/amp. Using the X7 means you're not using whatever soundcard you have, unless you are using the analog inputs on the X7.
> 
> I use the X2 as my headphones.




I guess he is asking this because I have seen people plug in their Astro mix amp to their SB Z or Asus Xonar cards or on a motherboards audio. To be honest, I dont even know why would you do that if the sound card itself can do what an astro mix amp does but better.

Not sure if he knows exactly how sounds cards work.....


----------



## jincuteguy

rudyae86 said:


> I guess he is asking this because I have seen people plug in their Astro mix amp to their SB Z or Asus Xonar cards or on a motherboards audio. To be honest, I dont even know why would you do that if the sound card itself can do what an astro mix amp does but better.
> 
> Not sure if he knows exactly how sounds cards work.....


 
 I just tested it out.  The Dolby Digital Live method with the Astro MIxamp is way better.  And I know how sound cards works.  
  
 I told him to hook up his X7 to a sound card via Optical because I want him to try out the Dolby Digital Live encodes and then get decodes by the X7 (since X7 is the one he is using).  But then I dont think the X7 can decode Dolby Digital Live.
  
 I went to my local Fry's and bought a ZxR soundcard (since it's the only one they have left), bought the Astro A40 with Mixamp included since it's the only one they have.  
 I bought these just for testing purposes.  
 I hooked up the MixAmp to the Optical output of the ZxR soundcard via Optical cable.  The ZxR soundcard will then encodes all the sounds whether 5.1 or 2.0 into digital bit "on the fly" (hence that's why it's called Dolby Digital Live), and spits them out to the MixAmp.
 The MIxAmp wil then decodes those digital bit and convert to analog to your headphone.  This to me the surround sounds is way better than if I just hook up my headphone straight to the ZxR soundcard or X7 and turn on the SBX.
  
 That is why I told him to hook up his X7 to his soundcard via Optical to try out the Dolby Digital Live and see if it's better.  I know X7 is an external DAC / Amp so it's just like a soundcard, but since it's the one he is using atm 
 and I thought the X7 could decodes Dolby Digital Live, that's why I just told him to use his X7 and hook up to the soundcard.  
  
 I dont know if you guys understand my point or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My PC is a laptop, and my onboard Recon 3Di doesn't output Dolby Digital Live through the optical out, only 2 channel.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> I just tested it out.  The Dolby Digital Live method with the Astro MIxamp is way better.  And I know how sound cards works.
> 
> I told him to hook up his X7 to a sound card via Optical because I want him to try out the Dolby Digital Live encodes and then get decodes by the X7 (since X7 is the one he is using).  But then I dont think the X7 can decode Dolby Digital Live.
> 
> ...


 
 Dude, this is the exact opposite of a great solution.
  
 Optical can only transmit lossy compressed multichannel signal that is Dolby Digital Live. It is only good for consoles since no external soundcard (aside from Realizer) has HDMI to transmit uncompressed audio. On PC You can use USB to transmit 5.1 LPCM *uncompressed, lossless audio *(the bold here is key). Using optical on PC makes sense only when transmitting a 2 channel signal.
  
 As for the ZXR => Mixamp thing You're basically taking the lossless 5.1 signal that the card renders internally, then You're talking 70% of the signal and throw it away in order to send it to the Mixamp. Don't do that. Instead configure the ZxR to send already encoded two channel signal straight to headphones, or buy an amp/dac combo and use that together with the ZxR.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Dude, this is the exact opposite of a great solution.
> 
> Optical can only transmit lossy compressed multichannel signal that is Dolby Digital Live. It is only good for consoles since no external soundcard (aside from Realizer) has HDMI to transmit uncompressed audio. On PC You can use USB to transmit 5.1 LPCM *uncompressed, lossless audio *(the bold here is key). Using optical on PC makes sense only when transmitting a 2 channel signal.
> 
> As for the ZXR => Mixamp thing You're basically taking the lossless 5.1 signal that the card renders internally, then You're talking 70% of the signal and throw it away in order to send it to the Mixamp. Don't do that. Instead configure the ZxR to send already encoded two channel signal straight to headphones, or buy an amp/dac combo and use that together with the ZxR.


 
 Yea you're right.  So do you know if they sell like a Desktop DAC / Amp that has HDMI input so I can send uncompressed 5.1 / 7.1 multi channel surround sounds to it?  I know Receiver now aday has HDMI but I dont' like how bulky Receiver is to put on my Desk along with my PC.


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> and I thought the X7 could decodes Dolby Digital Live, that's why I just told him to use his X7 and hook up to the soundcard.
> 
> I dont know if you guys understand my point or not.




Jin, trust me, MLE knows what DDL is, even compared to not-live-but-pre-encoded Dolby Digital... He just doesn't want to get into the can of worms that is PC (and troubleshooting inevitable PC problems) and dilute the topic of this thread. If you don't believe me, try reading the first post of this thread... The majority of that post was written years ago.

The X7 can definitely decode Dolby Digital Live and Dolby Digital, it has an entire labeled light on the front dedicated to just letting you know it detects a Dolby signal. The positional audio in a live game makes these steps: Raw positional data > directed to blend between the nearest speaker channels in a 5.1/7.1 setup> console encodes speaker channel outputs into compressed Dolby Digital Live signal that can "fit" into the limited bandwidth of an optical output (which was originally designed only for the bandwidth to support lossless 2-channel stereo), and then the digital audio leaves the console/blue ray player. The X7 then takes the 7.1 signal and processes it *through SBX* to create a 2-channel headphone virtual surround mix. The X7 can ALSO take raw positional data from a PC over USB before being directly processed *through SBX* to create a 2-channel headphone virtual surround mix... No intermediary (Dolby) steps designed for a home theater setup.

It sounds like your point is that, after DDL output is created, you prefer the sound of a 2-channel headphone virtual surround mix when it has been processed by *Dolby Headphone* rather than *SBX.* And that's okay, you're not the first to feel that way... Mad prefers Dolby Headphone too, if only it was available in higher quality devices with better DAC and Amp than an Astro Mixamp.

Once upon a time, Mad actually bought a discontinued Marantz receiver from a time when they still included Dolby Headphone, and besides the bulk he really liked the sound quality (until it shorted out). Receivers don't use Dolby Headphone anymore, the companies that do have headphone surround in their receivers anymore use their own head-transfer-related-function processing (HRTF, More commonly called headphone surround) made in-house. None of the little processor devices designed for gaming use HDMI. On the high-end of things, there's the better quality equipment (with their own but very good HRTF) from Beyerdynamic (Headzone) and Smith (the Realizer). The Beyerdynamic has a head-tracking device that attaches to your headphones, I'm not 100% sure but I think the Smith has that too but even more memorably the Smith can use custom HRTF calibrations based on recordings from microphones put in your ears while you go to a well-setup movie theater and hear some directional test tones. These high-end setups cost a lot of money, but I've often seen the Smith described as something along the lines of "a wonder of human engineering."

Now you (and anyone else) is caught up to the current state of available headphone surround gear. At the entry level you've got the Mixamp, DSS, Recon3D, Tritton ax720 decoder box, and all the wireless headsets. Mid-level is very sparse, you've got receivers and the most recent entry, the Creative X7. And there's two high-end options for drolling about above the glass ceiling. PC is different because you can do almost any processing and output that to any audiophile DAC/Amp you like, but you have to constantly optimize performance, fix driver problems/conflicts, protect from viruses, and decline JAVA UPDATES EVERY FRIGGIN DAY!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAGH JAVA YOU DONT EVEN HAVE ANY F— *dies*


----------



## NamelessPFG

jincuteguy said:


> Yea you're right.  So do you know if they sell like a Desktop DAC / Amp that has HDMI input so I can send uncompressed 5.1 / 7.1 multi channel surround sounds to it?  I know Receiver now aday has HDMI but I dont' like how bulky Receiver is to put on my Desk along with my PC.


 
  
 The solution on PC, if you can't use an internal sound card, is a USB device with virtual surround of some sort, like the Recon3D USB, X7 (though USB, NOT optical/Toslink), or one of the assorted USB Xonars if you're more into Dolby Headphone. Just DON'T use a plain stereo audiophile USB DAC for this.
  
 HDMI's only a concern for consoles right now, and believe me, I wish there was a Mixamp-size HDMI processor for the sake of my Wii U (which doesn't have an S/PDIF output and only outputs surround through HDMI LPCM, compared to my other consoles). It just doesn't exist, though, and the Smyth Realiser A8 is completely out of my budget at $2,000+.


----------



## jincuteguy

evshrug said:


> Jin, trust me, MLE knows what DDL is, even compared to not-live-but-pre-encoded Dolby Digital... He just doesn't want to get into the can of worms that is PC (and troubleshooting inevitable PC problems) and dilute the topic of this thread. If you don't believe me, try reading the first post of this thread... The majority of that post was written years ago.
> 
> The X7 can definitely decode Dolby Digital Live and Dolby Digital, it has an entire labeled light on the front dedicated to just letting you know it detects a Dolby signal. The positional audio in a live game makes these steps: Raw positional data > directed to blend between the nearest speaker channels in a 5.1/7.1 setup> console encodes speaker channel outputs into compressed Dolby Digital Live signal that can "fit" into the limited bandwidth of an optical output (which was originally designed only for the bandwidth to support lossless 2-channel stereo), and then the digital audio leaves the console/blue ray player. The X7 then takes the 7.1 signal and processes it *through SBX* to create a 2-channel headphone virtual surround mix. The X7 can ALSO take raw positional data from a PC over USB before being directly processed *through SBX* to create a 2-channel headphone virtual surround mix... No intermediary (Dolby) steps designed for a home theater setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey thanks for the thoughts and input.  Im thinking about getting the Creative X7, im gonna return this ZxR soundcard and the Astro A40 back to my local Fry's store.  I wished my local Fry's store has the X7 so I can just grab it and run home and be excited with it.  But I guess I'll have to buy it online like Amazon or something.
 Or do you think I should just keep the ZxR soundcard but how is it compare to the X7? I know the X7 has more features though.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Hey thanks for the thoughts and input.  Im thinking about getting the Creative X7, im gonna return this ZxR soundcard and the Astro A40 back to my local Fry's store.  I wished my local Fry's store has the X7 so I can just grab it and run home and be excited with it.  But I guess I'll have to buy it online like Amazon or something.
> Or do you think I should just keep the ZxR soundcard but how is it compare to the X7? I know the X7 has more features though.


 
 That depends on whether You're planning to use all of its features?


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> Hey thanks for the thoughts and input.  Im thinking about getting the Creative X7, im gonna return this ZxR soundcard and the Astro A40 back to my local Fry's store.  I wished my local Fry's store has the X7 so I can just grab it and run home and be excited with it.  But I guess I'll have to buy it online like Amazon or something.
> Or do you think I should just keep the ZxR soundcard but how is it compare to the X7? I know the X7 has more features though.



If you're just PC gaming, I'd stick with the ZxR. Besides the X7's features, the sound quality is basically on the same level (except for output impedance and power supply noise). You might like having an Asus soundcard if you prefer Dolby Headphone.

If you're into PC and console gaming, especially if you have a higher quality headphone and/or could make use of Bluetooth or passive speaker amplification, then the X7 is pretty much the only mid-tier option (unless you like the processing built into current receivers). You just missed the Massdrop sale with about $100 off. If you're happy enough with your mixamp (or you just hate SBX, though it's generally not an opinion polarizing sound), then think carefully if you can justify buying it.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> That depends on whether You're planning to use all of its features?


 
 WEll no im not gonna use all of the X7 features, like Speakers, cause I don't have Speakers.  I just like how the X7 has both DAC / Amp together and I think the Amp on the X7 is better than the one on the ZxR soundcard right? Or are they the same? 
 Also I can use the Bluetooth and play music through my phone with the X7


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> WEll no im not gonna use all of the X7 features, like Speakers, cause I don't have Speakers.  I just like how the X7 has both DAC / Amp together and I think the Amp on the X7 is better than the one on the ZxR soundcard right? Or are they the same?
> Also I can use the Bluetooth and play music through my phone with the X7


 
 Amp on the X7 is most definitely better than the one in ZxR. However keep in mind that the X7 is very expensive and if You're not planning on using speakers then the X7 might be an overkill for You.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Amp on the X7 is most definitely better than the one in ZxR. However keep in mind that the X7 is very expensive and if You're not planning on using speakers then the X7 might be an overkill for You.


 
  Yea it's fine if it's overkill.  Yea I know the X7 is $400, but that's ok I can still buy it.


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> WEll no im not gonna use all of the X7 features, like Speakers, cause I don't have Speakers.  I just like how the X7 has both DAC / Amp together and I think the Amp on the X7 is better than the one on the ZxR soundcard right? Or are they the same?
> Also I can use the Bluetooth and play music through my phone with the X7



Power-wise, the X7's headphone amp is about the same as the ZxR, but it is a bit noise-cleaner and has a few better specs, like specs important for low-impedance headphones sensitive to bloating bass. For phones, you can use Bluetooth or many phones can use the USB Host port for audio (and quite fast recharging). 

The speaker taps aren't as high-end as a dedicated $400 speaker amp for power-hungry speakers, but certainly pretty good with an average bookshelf speaker and will suit an apartment or bedroom setup pretty well. I may get the larger power supply to see if that helps my more power-hungry Chane speakers, but the X7 did well enough with my Polks. I'm just saying this in case you may get speakers someday in the future.


----------



## kazsud

feedyourhead said:


> Guys, I'm hoping someone can help the wifey and I with our headset conundrum. We split-screen in CoD several hours a day, and have been since MW3. On the PS3, our setup went like this: Two nice headphones (Sennheiser HD598 & Audio-Technica AD700), running into a spliter, into one of these http://www.amazon.com/Force-Channel-Dolby-Surround-Processor-Mac/dp/B003O0KICS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419972129&sr=8-1&keywords=dss. For chat we would hang the Sony bluetooth mic on a string from the ceiling in between us, then output chat audio to the headphones. This worked great, and didn't pick up ambient noises, but apparently bluetooth mics no longer work on PS4.
> 
> 
> I was hoping to be able to use the small earbud mic that comes with the PS4, but Sony, in their infinite wisdom, decided not to give you the option to output chat volume to the "speakers" if you plug a mic into the controller.
> ...


 
 Buy two astro A40s> They can be daisy chained.


----------



## lenroot77

Looking for any input/insight on the HD700's for gaming. How are they? Will there at least be a slight increase in the quality compared to my x1's or k7xx's?

newegg has a good sale and I'm really considering in the next day.

Thanks all


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Looking for any input/insight on the HD700's for gaming. How are they? Will there at least be a slight increase in the quality compared to my x1's or k7xx's?
> 
> newegg has a good sale and I'm really considering in the next day.
> 
> Thanks all


 
  
 Personally I think the K7XX is in a sweet-spot for gaming headphones. If you want better it's out there, but you pay a premium. To me the HD700 isn't worth 2.5x the price of the K7XX for gaming purposes. It does some things better than the AKG's on a technical level but I still prefer the sound of the K7XX to the HD700. The HD700 are more far comfortable than the K7XX, so there's that.
  
 If you're just getting them solely for gaming my recommendation is to stick with the K7XX.


----------



## lenroot77

axelcloris said:


> Personally I think the K7XX is in a sweet-spot for gaming headphones. If you want better it's out there, but you pay a premium. To me the HD700 isn't worth 2.5x the price of the K7XX for gaming purposes. It does some things better than the AKG's on a technical level but I still prefer the sound of the K7XX to the HD700. The HD700 are more far comfortable than the K7XX, so there's that.
> 
> If you're just getting them solely for gaming my recommendation is to stick with the K7XX.




I enjoy the k7xx ,as well as the x1's, greatly. Couldn't ask for anything more out of the two. I'm just kinda itching to get something new. 

Anyone else have anything to add? 
Maybe there's a different option? Also was looking at alpha dogs, fostex th600 or the shure 1540's. Maybe even the hd600 or hd650s.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> I enjoy the k7xx ,as well as the x1's, greatly. Couldn't ask for anything more out of the two. I'm just kinda itching to get something new.
> 
> Anyone else have anything to add?
> Maybe there's a different option? Also was looking at alpha dogs, fostex th600 or the shure 1540's. Maybe even the hd600 or hd650s.


 
  
 If you're looking for something new I'd suggest looking into an electrostatic or planar dynamic headphone. They'll give you something very different from the dynamics you currently have. I love my 400i for gaming (vastly preferred over my X2) and the only reason I'm letting them go is because I have an Ether coming this month. If you're considering the HD700 maybe look into the HE560 or an entry level STAX system.


----------



## Evshrug

Lenroot,
The HD700 had a more forward, thicker tone than the K712 (can't comment on the Kxx, but differences could be heard between K712, K612, and Q701) which was enjoyable, but the K712 was better able to separate different sounds and also be a bit more detailed with the minutia. Soundstage was more easily perceived with the K712. The PM-3 is also more clear of "wool around the sound" and better at portraying depth than the HD700. You certainly feel like the HD700 is a bit of a "beyond money" and "I splurged!" experience while owning them. However, I bet that even the diehard fans in the appreciation thread would have a hard time justifying the HD700 over a bunch of other very strong headphones at or below it's price point if all were auditioned side-by-side... Some people don't enjoy the HD700, I *did *but I definitely don't think they're worth $600 or more, and I felt the K712 outperformed them. YMMV.

TL;DR,
The HD700 doesn't offer much new/different from what you have, but a planar magnetic or electrostatic headphone ought to sound like a second Renaissance.


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Lenroot,
> The HD700 had a more forward, thicker tone than the K712 (can't comment on the Kxx, but differences could be heard between K712, K612, and Q701) which was enjoyable, but the K712 was better able to separate different sounds and also be a bit more detailed with the minutia. Soundstage was more easily perceived with the K712. The PM-3 is also more clear of "wool around the sound" and better at portraying depth than the HD700. You certainly feel like the HD700 is a bit of a "beyond money" and "I splurged!" experience while owning them. However, I bet that even the diehard fans in the appreciation thread would have a hard time justifying the HD700 over a bunch of other very strong headphones at or below it's price point if all were auditioned side-by-side... Some people don't enjoy the HD700, I *did *but I definitely don't think they're worth $600 or more, and I felt the K712 outperformed them. YMMV.
> 
> TL;DR,
> The HD700 doesn't offer much new/different from what you have, but a planar magnetic or electrostatic headphone ought to sound like a second Renaissance.




K just what I needed to hear on the planars/ electrostatic headphone. I will look into those, thanks guys!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait for the release of the HE-400S. That may be the new best thing at $300.

And yes, once you go planar, it will be hard to go back to dynamic.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Wait for the release of the HE-400S. That may be the new best thing at $300.
> 
> And yes, once you go planar, it will be hard to go back to dynamic.




I'll have a look at those, even the original he-400's look pretty decent and can be had for 200 used with extra pads and such.


----------



## Evshrug

The velour pads improve the HE-400's treble, IMO you might want a touch of an EQ boost to the mids... but you might like the HE-400 as-is. I had fun hearing how the sound changed when my hand was within 6" of the outer earcup, it's not bad but just the most open headphones I've ever encountered, lol!


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Wait for the release of the HE-400S. That may be the new best thing at $300.
> 
> And yes, once you go planar, it will be hard to go back to dynamic.


 
 When is the HE400s coming out?


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> And yes, once you go planar, it will be hard to go back to dynamic.


 
  
 Quoting MLE for emphasis. Going planar or electrostat could end up changing your perspective on headphones completely. I try dynamic headphones occasionally and I seem to find myself always going back home to planars after a short vacation. There's a quality about them that draws me in and doesn't let go. And I do recommend checking out an electrostat set if you can as well.
  
@lenroot77 - There's a Chicago meet in August where you can demo some of them (and hang out with me, hey!) without going out and spending a ton of money up front. You really should check it out, it's a ton of fun. Shame you weren't at the one we had in June.


----------



## lenroot77

I guess I'll wait to for the 400s's... Tyell seemed pretty jazzed with them. So they have to be pretty impressive. I'm excited to hear the difference of dynamic/planar. 

I'll have to see what's going on the day of the meet. That would be pretty cool.


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> mad lust envy said:
> 
> 
> > And yes, once you go planar, it will be hard to go back to dynamic.
> ...



I'll be there too lenroot77, if you end up going and want to try any of the stuff that I have, just ask and I'll bring it! 
AxelCloris, maybe we should put our heads together and figure out how to do a headphone gaming demo station at the meet. I think people would really dig that. I have a few ideas that might work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only problem with planars is that they don't do soundstaging as well as dynamics. They hit a sort of invisble wall, so thebsound ends up being a little more intimate, even amongst airy planars like the HE4. The Alpha Dog is the one exception that I experienced. That soundstage was impressive even if it was closed.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> The only problem with planars is that they don't do soundstaging as well as dynamics. They hit a sort of invisble wall, so thebsound ends up being a little more intimate, even amongst airy planars like the HE4. The Alpha Dog is the one exception that I experienced. That soundstage was impressive even if it was closed.



Truth. You definitely trade some soundstage size for bottomless bass and liquid effortlessness. Good thing is, the imaging tends to stay pretty sharp. I found my reaction time to be very quick with the HE500 and the soundstage was pretty good too. The biggest drawback for gaming was the sheer weight of the headphone. If you sit up straight, it's not a big deal, but I tend to lean over a bit, and that can get a little hard on the neck.
I would be remiss if I didn't mention the HE-560, HE-6 and the Ether, though I spent only a short time with them, seem to defy all of my preconceptions about the planar soundstage. They were all quite spacious.


----------



## RyuShinEX

ryushinex said:


> Hello everyone, a first timer here. Nice to meet everyone of you.
> 
> Where do I look for using a ATH-M50 and AT2020 USB to xbox one & ps4?


 
  
 Hi guys, any help on this?
  
 I plan to use it for PC gaming plus on consoles.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> The only problem with planars is that they don't do soundstaging as well as dynamics. They hit a sort of invisble wall, so the sound ends up being a little more intimate, even amongst airy planars like the HE4. The Alpha Dog is the one exception that I experienced. That soundstage was impressive even if it was closed.


 
  
 The HE1000 is the first planar I've heard to really break through that barrier. It's the single most out-of-my-head planar that I've heard. My Ether's soundstage won't be as big as the HE1000 (or certain specific dynamics) but it's still a very nice size and a solid win for me in almost every other category.


----------



## Yethal

ryushinex said:


> Hi guys, any help on this?
> 
> I plan to use it for PC gaming plus on consoles.


 
 I'm not sure what You were trying to ask in Your previous post. What exactly do You want to achieve?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys if and when I decide to update, prepare for a change to a 5 star system for ratings.

5 = Amazing
4 = Great
3 = Good with flaws
2= Mediocre, Below Average
1= Avoid, Terrible

There wont be any half stars, or half ratings. It also does NOT translate to 3 stars = 6/10. A 6 was okay before. 3 stars is GOOD now.

That is all. Any complaints, is...too bad. Im tired of people focusing on micro scores, so they will no longer exist after the update.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Guys if and when I decide to update, prepare for a change to a 5 star system for ratings.
> 
> 5 = Amazing
> 4 = Great
> ...




Yay!

Might I suggest the star ratings equate to
5-Stars = Godlike
4 = Elite
3 = Positive K/D
2 = LOL teammate
1 = Woopsie!!

You know, just so gamers can understand


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yay!
> 
> Might I suggest the star ratings equate to
> 5-Stars = Godlike
> ...


 
  
 5 - Learn how to play without cheats
 4 - How the hell did he do that? He must be cheating
 3 - This guy is suspiciously good, probably a cheater
 2 - Lol what a noob
 1 - You might as well go mute


----------



## Change is Good

Meh...

I prefer IGN, anyways...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## Evshrug

LOL!
I love Skyward Sword's graphic style, I'd like to play it but I won't buy a Wii for 2-3 games total.

Suddenly thirsty.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> LOL!
> I love Skyward Sword's graphic style, I'd like to play it but I won't buy a Wii for 2-3 games total.
> 
> Suddenly thirsty.


 
  
 But Skyward Sword and Wind Waker look completely different.


----------



## RyuShinEX

yethal said:


> I'm not sure what You were trying to ask in Your previous post. What exactly do You want to achieve?


 

 I would like to use the ATH-M50 and AT2020 USB when I game on consoles & PC. On the pc side, it's pretty much straight forward but how about the consoles?
  
 How do I make these 2 items work? Hearing my party's chat and in-game sound with ATH-M50 + chatting on AT2020 USB.


----------



## Yethal

ryushinex said:


> I would like to use the ATH-M50 and AT2020 USB when I game on consoles & PC. On the pc side, it's pretty much straight forward but how about the consoles?
> 
> How do I make these 2 items work? Hearing my party's chat and in-game sound with ATH-M50 + chatting on AT2020 USB.


 
 Oh, sorry. Well, as it turns out it is easy. PS4 works with USB mics straight out of the box. As for the M50 it can just be plugged into the Dualshock 4 controller. If You want something better sounding than the little soundcard inside the controller buy a Turtle Beach DSS. Seems like the best solution for headphones + usb mic combo.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh yeah, I wasn't familiar with the AT2020 (outside my price range while shopping), but USB mics are nice to use with the PS4, plug and play. Just keep in mind that if the mic is omnidirectional, it might pick up background sounds from the environment. You can adjust mic sensitivity by holding the PS button on the controller and selecting "Adjust devices and [something]" option. People like it best when I have the sensitivity down and the mic close by.
The controller's headphone jack will get you started, but it's sound quality is pretty "bottom of the bucket" kind of quality, if you catch my meaning. Like yethal mentioned, the original DSS is less than $30 on eBay and will provide a big step up for your ATH-M50.


----------



## Adanteh

Doing PC gaming and lots of music listening (Mostly electronic things), picking between a Beyerdynamic COP+ priced at €177 or a Fidelio X2 at €236, what would you recommend? The Fidelio is at the high end of my budget, but I've seen a lot of good things about it and wondering if it's worth the extra money. There's also a lot of talking involved with my gaming and I know there's the boom mic for the COP, any good solutions for the philips?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like the HE-400S is yet another well balanced headphone at the $300 bracket. Because we don't already have a flood of well balanced headphones with the same general curve.

My dreams of an actual improved 400 is gone. Ah well. Gone are the days lf energetic sounding planars in favor of samey, flat curves. Im disappointed.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Looks like the HE-400S is yet another well balanced headphone at the $300 bracket. Because we don't already have a flood of well balanced headphones with the same general curve.
> 
> My dreams of an actual improved 400 is gone. Ah well. Gone are the days lf energetic sounding planars in favor of samey, flat curves. Im disappointed.




Hmmmm... Now I'm wondering if I should check the 400s out or maybe just the 400. It sounds that the original 400 was a more fun sounding with its V sound signature?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It was. Had actually a very robust bottom end and lower mids. The upper mids were scooped out, with a staggering rise in treble, which is my main real complaint.

If rhey just reduced treble by a bit, it'd be a lot more tolerable, and would make lovers of fun cans very happy. The bass and lower mids were fantastic.

Based on what Matt is saying (and I trust him), the 400s is more along the lines of an HD600 type signature. Definitely the opposite of what I want.

There's a reason I owned the 400 three times. It was special to me, albeit with some obvious treble flaws. I was fine with the upper mid scoop, since I'm sensitive to that range, and don't mind it being smoothened over.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> It was. Had actually a very robust bottom end and lower mids. The upper mids were scooped out, with a staggering rise in treble, which is my main real complaint.
> 
> If rhey just reduced treble by a bit, it'd be a lot more tolerable, and would make lovers of fun cans very happy. The bass and lower mids were fantastic.
> 
> ...




Would u say more of a treble spike than the dt990's?
I had those early on and enjoyed them. Although I have to say when I got them a second time after having some other cans I was more sensitive to the dt990's treble.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, the HE400 and DT990 are oddly different, despite both having a very obvious treble tilt. The problem with the HE400 in that instance was that the headphone itself is quite warm overally, so the massive treble spike was uncharactersitically bright amongst the warmth, so it stuck out a bit more. The 990 was always, unabashedly bright, so it was easier to adjust to it's treble, as your ears was gets used to straight brightness instead of constantly going from warmth characteristic, to bright signature mere moments later.

Both treble ranges are a bit punishing, but I feel the 400 was easier to enjoy to it's treble being slightly offset by it's warmth (I know it's quite contradictory to what I just posted). The 990 was more love it or hate it due to it being pretty much tilted towards utter brightness.

All that being said, if you enjoyed the 990, the HE400 wouldn't be hard to enjoy.

I do have to say that if you're into EQ, the DT990 was easy to EQ the treble as it was purely focused at I believe 9-10khz, whereas the HE400 had a broader, more persistent treble spike.


----------



## henhowc

anyone playing batman? what is the ideal audio setting for headphones? there seems to be a regular headphones and pro headphones setting along with the usual tv, small speakers, large speakers.
  
 using my fidelio x2s with a dss for dolby


----------



## Evshrug

The HE-400 (with velour pads to slightly attenuate the treble) didn't bother me at all on the treble. My eardrums were very sensitive to the mids scoop too... But in the sense that vocals (particularly female?) sounded unnaturally pushed back. Adding a nice amp (with a bit of mids coloration) made the headphone have a nicer balance and use in more genres, but it still wasn't enough for me to personally get excited about them... But I wasn't a bass head.

I use past-tense because it's been awhile since I got to demo them (Thanks! Sincerely!!!), so my impressions should not be taken as definitive or matching everyone else's experiences. I'll just say I have a (somewhat funny) video of me listening to the headphones and describing impressions, and that it really stuck out for me that vocals were de-emphasized, and that the DT880 were the only headphones ever to cause me tinnitus (which thank god went away quickly!) but the HE-400 didn't bother me as much. It was educational to learn that my tastes were less for a V-shaped response, though today I like a smidge more bass and a little more "magic" than neutral to make a headphone stand out as a fun time.


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> The HE-400 (with velour pads to slightly attenuate the treble) didn't bother me at all on the treble. My eardrums were very sensitive to the mids scoop too... But in the sense that vocals (particularly female?) sounded unnaturally pushed back. Adding a nice amp (with a bit of mids coloration) made the headphone have a nicer balance and use in more genres, but it still wasn't enough for me to personally get excited about them... But I wasn't a bass head.
> 
> I use past-tense because it's been awhile since I got to demo them (Thanks! Sincerely!!!), so my impressions should not be taken as definitive or matching everyone else's experiences. I'll just say I have a (somewhat funny) video of me listening to the headphones and describing impressions, and that it really stuck out for me that vocals were de-emphasized, and that the DT880 were the only headphones ever to cause me tinnitus (which thank god went away quickly!) but the HE-400 didn't bother me as much. It was educational to learn that my tastes were less for a V-shaped response, though today I like a smidge more bass and a little more "magic" than neutral to make a headphone stand out as a fun time.


 
  
 I have a hard time recommending the DT880 to anyone anymore. It's too clinical compared to headphones in its price range now. The T1 is so much better on every front (not to mention it's probably one of the best headphones for gaming period from a competitive standpoint.)


----------



## dcp1

Hi guys!
 I have been reading the reviews to pick a headphone for gaming, music and movies. Mainly fps gaming. I was going for DT990 Pros but I thought I could spend more for a better one. HE-400 and Fidelio X2 look good for my needs but I wanted to ask for alternatives in these price range. I will probably be ordering from Amazon Italy. (I live in Turkey. Can't order Hifiman from Amazon though). By the way I am planning to buy a dac+amp combo, I have read that a dac+amp combo improves the quality of X2 greatly.
  
 My headphone history: SteelSeries Siberia V2>Astro A50 Wireless


----------



## Hansotek

dcp1 said:


> Hi guys!
> I have been reading the reviews to pick a headphone for gaming, music and movies. Mainly fps gaming. I was going for DT990 Pros but I thought I could spend more for a better one. HE-400 and Fidelio X2 look good for my needs but I wanted to ask for alternatives in these price range. I will probably be ordering from Amazon Italy. (I live in Turkey. Can't order Hifiman from Amazon though). By the way I am planning to buy a dac+amp combo, I have read that a dac+amp combo improves the quality of X2 greatly.
> 
> My headphone history: SteelSeries Siberia V2>Astro A50 Wireless


 
  
 All 3 of those are really good choices. Most people around here would probably tell you to go with the X2.


----------



## PacoTaco

hansotek said:


> All 3 of those are really good choices. Most people around here would probably tell you to go with the X2.


 
 I'd tell him to wait and just get the HE400s. I'm also biased towards planars...


----------



## dcp1

pacotaco said:


> I'd tell him to wait and just get the HE400s. I'm also biased towards planars...


 
 I have just read that HE400i is better in terms of treble and comfort.


----------



## Hansotek

dcp1 said:


> pacotaco said:
> 
> 
> > I'd tell him to wait and just get the HE400s. I'm also biased towards planars...
> ...


 
  
 I know this is confusing, but @PacoTaco is talking about the "HE400S" (yes, "S" is part of the name on the new model, just like "i")... not HE400. Also, it just came out, so there's no need to wait! Those who pre-ordered the HE400*S* started receiving the first batch yesterday. Here's a link to the thread with some initial impressions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/766529/new-2015-hifiman-he400s


----------



## dcp1

hansotek said:


> I know this is confusing, but @PacoTaco is talking about the "HE400S" (yes, "S" is part of the name on the new model, just like "i")... not HE400. Also, it just came out, so there's no need to wait! Those who pre-ordered the HE400*S* started receiving the first batch yesterday. Here's a link to the thread with some initial impressions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/766529/new-2015-hifiman-he400s


 
 Ah okay. I thought "s" is for plural you know, cans-headphones 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Thanks for the input!


----------



## Hansotek

dcp1 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I know this is confusing, but @PacoTaco is talking about the "HE400S" (yes, "S" is part of the name on the new model, just like "i")... not HE400. Also, it just came out, so there's no need to wait! Those who pre-ordered the HE400*S* started receiving the first batch yesterday. Here's a link to the thread with some initial impressions: http://www.head-fi.org/t/766529/new-2015-hifiman-he400s
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, it's a horrible naming convention. People pluralize headphone names all the time. When they announced it, I think a lot of Head-fi'ers were like:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pacotaco said:


> I'd tell him to wait and just get the HE400s. I'm also biased towards planars...




I'm biased towards planars and I'm still recommending the X2 instead.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I'm biased towards planars and I'm still recommending the X2 instead.




I guess I just strongly disliked the X1/X2. Then again, neither fit on my head perfectly. I found I liked the K712 better, but then I discovered planars (darn you LCD 2.)

I haven't heard anything bad about the 400s yet. Granted, a used 400i is only 80$ more at times and that headphone can rival headphones far above it.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm biased towards Akg open headphones and recommend all of them over the X2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I find you to be biased for anything you currently own. As does pretty much anyone. saying you recommend ANy AKG over it, is such a fanboy-ish blanket statement. The 612 lacks the extra fun, with a brittle treble response, and the 712 has a hot treble amongst the warm in addition to being a lot harder to drive in terms of performing up to it's strengths. The X2 is ready to go out of the box with literally any device, assuming you want that Harman target response sound, which the X2 has covered quite well. So no, I wouldn't make a bold blanket statement that a product line is clearly a better choice, when they have their own shortcomings. At $300, the X2 trades blows with anything I've heard or know about in the range.

Me, I recommend the X2 because it's a damn good headphone that does both balance and fun without straying too far in one direction. Best of both worlds. If you want more balance, you get AKGs, if you want more fun, you get something else, like the X1. X2 is like a perfect split for me.

I love the AKGs, but they lack that teeny bit of extra fun suited to my preference, that the X2 reaches while still remaining very well balanced. A little bit goes a long way, hence why at $300, the X2 is my fave headphone.

Had the HE-400S actually NOT been yet another well balanced 400I/560 offshoot, and been an iproved HE-400 with same bass, less treble, it would've dethroned the X2 for me. sadly, it's just another headphone well balanced headphone in a price range saturated with fantastic, well balanced headphones. Playing it safe, is what I'd like to call headphones like that.


----------



## Change is Good




----------



## Thenewguy007

mad lust envy said:


> Had the HE-400S actually NOT been yet another well balanced 400I/560 offshoot, and been an iproved HE-400 with same bass, less treble, it would've dethroned the X2 for me. sadly, it's just another headphone well balanced headphone in a price range saturated with fantastic, well balanced headphones. Playing it safe, is what I'd like to call headphones like that.


 
  
 Have you tested the HE-500 or HE-560 yet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, and I don't have any desire to. I have heard plenty from people I trust to know they're not what I want. Not hard to extrapolate what kind of sound they have, especially from people that have been on the money with stuff I've heard every single time.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Is there a DTS headphone X amp similar to Astro's Mixamp? Dolby headphones seems to have a lock on the industry.
 I know Turtle Beach has a few models (elite) that use DTS X but it seems like Dolby is better.


----------



## AxelCloris

helvetica bold said:


> Is there a DTS headphone X amp similar to Astro's Mixamp? Dolby headphones seems to have a lock on the industry.
> I know Turtle Beach has a few models (elite) that use DTS X but it seems like Dolby is better.


 
  
 Whenever the Turtle Beach TAC finally makes it to market we'll have a standalone device capable of Headphone X. I don't know of any others offhand that will do the same.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Thanks AxelCloris!
 So wait, Turtle Beach is supposed to be releasing a new amp similar to Astro's Mixamp but it will feature DTS:X?


----------



## AxelCloris

helvetica bold said:


> Thanks AxelCloris!
> So wait, Turtle Beach is supposed to be releasing a new amp similar to Astro's Mixamp but it will feature DTS:X?


 
  
 It was announced at CES 2014 and was supposed to be out Q4 of 2014. There's supposed to be one but it's certainly not here yet.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Somehow I miss the Elite Tournament Audio Controller announcement. It looks pretty cool! So theres no ETA??
 I wonder whats the holdup on the TAC??


----------



## altrunox

Any info about the Bitfenix Flo?
 They're on sale in a local store for a really low price, at first I though it would be the "classical" horrible game headset, although after a while... WOW, they look almost the same as the Superlux HD661, and now they're even cheaper than buying the Superluxes from aliexpress.
  
 I've found some info that superlux is the OEM...


----------



## Thenewguy007

mad lust envy said:


> No, and I don't have any desire to. I have heard plenty from people I trust to know they're not what I want. Not hard to extrapolate what kind of sound they have, especially from people that have been on the money with stuff I've heard every single time.


 
  
 Really?
 From all the reviews I been reading the HE-500 excels in bass & the 560 in soundstage.
 Outside their price, I would thought them to be something to look into for gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

thenewguy007 said:


> Really?
> From all the reviews I been reading the HE-500 excels in bass & the 560 in soundstage.
> Outside their price, I would thought them to be something to look into for gaming.


 
  
 It's not a sound MLE wants. He's not saying that it's a bad choice for gaming, but it's not a good choice for him.


----------



## Thenewguy007

axelcloris said:


> It's not a sound MLE wants. He's not saying that it's a bad choice for gaming, but it's not a good choice for him.


 

 I haven't gone in depth in researching the Hiffiman headphones, but what sound signature do they have?
 Too warm, too analytical?


----------



## AxelCloris

thenewguy007 said:


> I haven't gone in depth in researching the Hiffiman headphones, but what sound signature do they have?
> Too warm, too analytical?


 
  
 There's a number of threads dedicated to the various HIFIMAN headphones. I haven't heard all of them but I know the threads would be more than able to provide details about each's specific sound signature.


----------



## Evshrug

helvetica bold said:


> Somehow I miss the Elite Tournament Audio Controller announcement. It looks pretty cool! So theres no ETA??
> I wonder whats the holdup on the TAC??




Well, I certainly doubt it would be delayed because of the design process by this point... Could be a parts sourcing issue (which also could've been worked around by now) or a licensing/legal issue. Probably the latter.

Turtle Beach was at CanJam SoCal this year, and when asked in person they didn't have an ETA (or seem to even be able to say "soon").



altrunox said:


> Any info about the Bitfenix Flo?
> They're on sale in a local store for a really low price, at first I though it would be the "classical" horrible game headset, although after a while... WOW, they look almost the same as the Superlux HD661, and now they're even cheaper than buying the Superluxes from aliexpress.
> 
> I've found some info that superlux is the OEM...




Eh, the Superlux that is usually recommended is already a cheap headphone with some rough qualities, so I wouldn't expect a cheaper model to make much difference. I'm not even sure if the HD661 was the model people recommend, I seem to recall that the good one was numbered a little higher?

At the end of the day, the Superlux is an AKG look-alike for cheap that already proved that two similar-looking products won't necessarily sound equal, and if I was new to audio I might really enjoy the Superlux (or Samson) at first, but quickly I'd be looking for an upgrade.


----------



## Thenewguy007

axelcloris said:


> There's a number of threads dedicated to the various HIFIMAN headphones. I haven't heard all of them but I know the threads would be more than able to provide details about each's specific sound signature.


 

 I actually did skim through them, just not read the hundred of posts they have.
  
 They always get mentioned as being the top tier in their price bracket.
 Below the ultra high end of HD800, LCD2/3 & the Tesla T1's, but above the HD650 & X2?
  
 They seem like they would be a good fit for gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

thenewguy007 said:


> I actually did skim through them, just not read the hundred of posts they have.
> 
> They always get mentioned as being the top tier in their price bracket.
> Below the ultra high end of HD800, LCD2/3 & the Tesla T1's, but above the HD650 & X2?
> ...


 
  
 I find the 400i a great fit for gaming. Bass is well controlled, great extension, nice soundstage (after a simple mod), and accurate positional queues.
  
 Personally, I don't like the HD650. Especially for gaming. I'd take my Koss PortaPro over the HD650. The X2 is better than the HD650 in all aspects.


----------



## taje18

Hoping to get some help/direction on what gaming headphones to get as the more I read the more I can't make up my mind.  These will be used for 90% games and 10% EDM music.  I will be using these only through my on board laptops soundcard (Sager 8652) and prefer not to use an amp/DAC. 
  
 I currently have a really old pair of Sennheiser's HD497 which I am not a fan of as they are uncomfortable after a little bit of wearing them and the sound is lacking on the low end and to me is mostly treble.  I also have a pair of Monster Turbine Copper Pro that I use work and really like that sound.
  
 I have been deciding between the Sennheiser HD558, and the Philips X1 & X2.  I am leaning towards the X1 or X2 but don't know how much better those are compared to the HD558 for what I need.  Also is the X2 worth the $100 extra over the X1 currently?  Not sure if the X2 drops below the current $299 price point and I should wait a bit.  I don't mind paying more if it is worth it.
  
 I do not have any places to listen to any headphones around me so I am mostly going off reviews.  Any help would be awesome.


----------



## Thenewguy007

taje18 said:


> Hoping to get some help/direction on what gaming headphones to get as the more I read the more I can't make up my mind.  These will be used for 90% games and 10% EDM music.  I will be using these only through my on board laptops soundcard (Sager 8652) and prefer not to use an amp/DAC.
> 
> I currently have a really old pair of Sennheiser's HD497 which I am not a fan of as they are uncomfortable after a little bit of wearing them and the sound is lacking on the low end and to me is mostly treble.  I also have a pair of Monster Turbine Copper Pro that I use work and really like that sound.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The HD598 would have a _slightly_ bigger soundstage for competitive gaming, but the X2 is bests it in every other regard.
 X1 would be better if you would listen to a lot of bass heavy music.


----------



## Hansotek

taje18 said:


> Hoping to get some help/direction on what gaming headphones to get as the more I read the more I can't make up my mind.  These will be used for 90% games and 10% EDM music.  I will be using these only through my on board laptops soundcard (Sager 8652) and prefer not to use an amp/DAC.
> 
> I currently have a really old pair of Sennheiser's HD497 which I am not a fan of as they are uncomfortable after a little bit of wearing them and the sound is lacking on the low end and to me is mostly treble.  I also have a pair of Monster Turbine Copper Pro that I use work and really like that sound.
> 
> ...



X2 > X1 >> HD598 > HD558

Get the Fidelios.


----------



## Hansotek

thenewguy007 said:


> axelcloris said:
> 
> 
> > There's a number of threads dedicated to the various HIFIMAN headphones. I haven't heard all of them but I know the threads would be more than able to provide details about each's specific sound signature.
> ...



You're talking about the HE500? Below the HD800 and the Audezes, yes, but above the T1, X2 and HD650. The final sound depends a bit on your amping, pad choice and mods. I find the HE500 sounds fantastic for gaming, but it's really heavy for extended gaming sessions. On the sound: Loads of gorgeous and tight reference-quality bass. Goes super deep with nice rumble and impact. Best lower mids evar. Upper mids are fairly neutral, though they need to be tamed with Jerg's Fuzzor mod to ensure fatigue-free listening. Treble is very, very good, but performance and harshness will vary depending on mods and pad choices. I've had many non-audiophile friend listen to the HD800 and HE500 back to back, and many of them say that it's not a case of one being better than the other, they're just very, very different.


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone here interested in purchasing a sealed copy of Arkham Knight for PS4? One came with my nephew's PS4 he got for his birthday, but I already have a copy he can just borrow. He'd rather I sell it and use that money to get him a different game.

PM me if interested (selling it for $35 shipped but buyer adds fees). I won't be putting up a classified, however, unless it is for feedback purposes... so only you guys know it is available. Otherwise, I'll put it up on eBay for bid in a couple days if no one here wants it.


----------



## taje18

taje18 said:


> Hoping to get some help/direction on what gaming headphones to get as the more I read the more I can't make up my mind.  These will be used for 90% games and 10% EDM music.  I will be using these only through my on board laptops soundcard (Sager 8652) and prefer not to use an amp/DAC.
> 
> I currently have a really old pair of Sennheiser's HD497 which I am not a fan of as they are uncomfortable after a little bit of wearing them and the sound is lacking on the low end and to me is mostly treble.  I also have a pair of Monster Turbine Copper Pro that I use work and really like that sound.
> 
> ...







hansotek said:


> X2 > X1 >> HD598 > HD558
> 
> Get the Fidelios.




I know this is rely subjective, but is the X2 a noticeable difference abive the X1's? Also do they ever go below the $299 price point?


----------



## Hansotek

taje18 said:


> taje18 said:
> 
> 
> > Hoping to get some help/direction on what gaming headphones to get as the more I read the more I can't make up my mind.  These will be used for 90% games and 10% EDM music.  I will be using these only through my on board laptops soundcard (Sager 8652) and prefer not to use an amp/DAC.
> ...



Haven't compared them directly, but there is a pretty unanimous consensus that they are notably improved. That being said, the X1 is still very enjoyable.
To answer your other question, yes. You can get a "Used - Like New" X2 pretty easily for around $200 via Amazon Warehouse deals. I'd recommend subscribing to the Head-fi deals discussion thread or setting a price alert for $210 or $220 through camelcamelcamel. They pop up relatively frequently, but they go pretty fast.


----------



## jincuteguy

hansotek said:


> X2 > X1 >> HD598 > HD558
> 
> Get the Fidelios.


 
 What about those Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250ohm and DT990  Premium 250ohm? compare to X1, and X2?


----------



## jfcarbel

Thanks to OP for such a great resource.
  
 I am using this to research headphones for movie watching which has similar needs as gaming (wide soundstage, great mids, positional imaging).
  
 I currently own the AD700 and do love them for movie watching, but was looking for an upgrade or alternative and wondering if there was a better HP for movies out there that I am missing out on.
  
 To OP, since the AD700 are discontinued, I would love to see you add you views on the AD900x
  
 I will be plugging the headphones into my A/V receiver HP out and not AMPing these.
  
 Currently I have narrowed down my short list to:
  
 Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 32ohm $300
 HD598 $150
 AD900x $150
  
 I am also reading that the new Audio-Technica ATH-R70x may be a great choice as well over the AD900x for movie watching so I might add that to my short list also.  I have read the soundstage depth on AD700 is still better then ATH-R70x but I am curious if it is marginally better while offering better pros in other areas for movie watching.
  
 I am likely leaning towards the HD598 or AD900x.  I might order both from amazon and compare and decide to keep one.
 I think movies need good quick bass but not that it overcrowds the imaging.   I have read the HD598 and AD900x are so close in sound with very slight differences.  My thought is AD900x will have more bass then 598.
  
 Currently the bass on my AD700 is pretty non existent, but they still sound fantastic for movies.  But I think the AD900x will give me similar sound but with more bass.  And from what I read the DT990 bass might overshadow the mids in movies.
  
 Also for movies I believe the mids sound best up front, so I think the DT990 might not be perfect choice.  Now if someone feels the DT990 are the perfect match for movies over the others but will require amping, then I might be open to that.  But it would have to be a margin better since there is also the higher cost.


----------



## Hansotek

jincuteguy said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > X2 > X1 >> HD598 > HD558
> ...



Premium and pro will be very similar. Pro has tighter clamping force and a cheaper, tougher and less expensive build meant to endure hundreds of tosses into a milk crate without looking like a beat-up "nice" headphone. With the tighter clamping force, you get a little extra bass impact and midrange volume, according to ZombieX, who compared them directly. Personally, I love the way the Pro version sounds, it's one headphone I don't think I'll ever part with. Great comfort, nice midbass, but it lacks extension. I think the timbre is the most natural sounding of all Beyers I've tried. I'd slot it right alongside the X1, for someone who likes more treble... Though I think most people would give the X1 the edge. Haven't gotten a chance to compare to the X2, but I am quite sure the X2 would be the better headphone overall.


----------



## Thenewguy007

taje18 said:


> I know this is rely subjective, but is the X2 a noticeable difference abive the X1's? Also do they ever go below the $299 price point?


 
  
 The X1 have arguably better treble & much harder hitting & deeper bass.
  
 X2 rained in the bass to be more neutral & improved the mids.


----------



## AxelCloris

taje18 said:


> Also is the X2 worth the $100 extra over the X1 currently?  Not sure if the X2 drops below the current $299 price point and I should wait a bit.


 
  
 Keep an eye on Amazon's used section, Amazon Warehouse Deals. I picked up a pair for $200 shipped from them. They pop up from time to time.


----------



## rudyae86

thenewguy007 said:


> The X1 have arguably better treble & much harder hitting & deeper bass.
> 
> X2 rained in the bass to be more neutral & improved the mids.




And only slightly. I have both. Its not a huge omaiga change but its noticeable. Though that mainly because I have listened to both quite a while.
But for the newbies to compare, it would be hard to notice the difference and also would depend on your source.

With regrds to that, I think one of the main keys here for both headphones is the cable and the confort.
X1 suits smaller heads better while the X2 was made to accomadate bigger heads better, though smaller heads still get comfort from it but may be a bit loose or lightly loose than the X1.


----------



## Thenewguy007

mad lust envy said:


> I'm biased towards planars and I'm still recommending the X2 instead.


 
  
  
 Any chance you can go into more detail on the AKG K712 Pro vs X2?
 In your review roundup, you made it seem like those two were your recommended go to headphones.
  
 I would specifically like to know how the K712 Pro is for gaming compared to the K701 & Q701.
 From what I read, the Q701 _slightly _improved bass & _slightly _lowered the soundstage from the K701.
 The K712 on the other hand, improved the bass even more, but continued to lower the soundstage as well.
  
  
 Is the soundstage still on par with the 701's or has it been lowered to the X2's level?
  
 The soundstage for the X1/X2 is great, but would like the next step forward in gaming from them.
 I know the K701 would be it, but is the K712 a huge leap as well?


----------



## Change is Good

The latter akgs still have a noticeably larger soundstage than the X2. I was quite surprised at how closed in the X2 actually sounds for an open headphone, because the X1's soundstage was actually quite nice.

That was my main complaint with the X2. It even lacked when compared to the soundstage of the HP200, which isn't anything to write home about.


----------



## Thenewguy007

change is good said:


> The latter akgs still have a noticeably larger soundstage than the X2.


 
  
  
 Trying to wrap my head around an AKG K12 competitive rating of 8.75  vs X2's rating of 8.25.
  
 My Audio Technica AD700 are getting old & are worn out, but I definitely agree they are a solid 10 in soundstage/competitive gaming.
 They are vastly superior to my X1, which have a huge soundstage themselves.
  
 If the K712 is really just a bit better than then X2/X1, I wouldn't think they would be an upgrade to get to replace my aging AD700, even though they will probably be better overall headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

thenewguy007 said:


> Trying to wrap my head around an AKG K12 competitive rating of 8.75  vs X2's rating of 8.25.
> 
> My Audio Technica AD700 are getting old & are worn out, but I definitely agree they are a solid 10 in soundstage/competitive gaming.
> They are vastly superior to my X1, which have a huge soundstage themselves.
> ...


 
  
 Numbers are not intended for comparison against one another. Each headphone is ranked individually and an 8.5 on one headphone does not equal an 8.5 on another. That said, from personal experience I'd take the K712 over the X1 for competitive gaming any day.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, to illustrate another example, Amazon has top review ratings for headphones of all prices, and some cheap ones with high scores while higher prices and technically better performing headphone may still get less stars...

Ultimately, Mad's scoring is just how much he liked a headphone at a given price. He bought all (and sold/returned) of the headphones in the reviews himself, except for like 3, so personal satisfaction and value definitely enter into the equation for him. You'd better believe Mad is considering value among the balance when he decided to put his _near perfect_ for his sound signature TH900 up for sale and keep the X2, along with comfort and some other things


----------



## Nenq

Hello.

Before I start I want to mention that I have already seen a mad lust envys topic !  So I have a siberia v2 and I have noticed that my mates can hear better than me in game (CS:GO) and here I am trying to get help. I really need introduction to stereo/studio/amp/dac/closed/open things . What I've seen that open back is more suitable for gaming? I've been looking to ATH-AD700x but people were telling that they have some problems with comfort and those wings. Other headphones that took my eye was Beyerdynamics custom one pro, but they r closed back. What you thing guys? My budget: 150-170 euros, can pay to 200 if it's really worth the deal.

P.S Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.


----------



## mindbomb

change is good said:


> The latter akgs still have a noticeably larger soundstage than the X2. I was quite surprised at how closed in the X2 actually sounds for an open headphone, because the X1's soundstage was actually quite nice.
> 
> That was my main complaint with the X2. It even lacked when compared to the soundstage of the HP200, which isn't anything to write home about.


 
 I think the fidelios are technically semi-open. It's closed for high frequencies, open for lower frequencies.


----------



## Evshrug

Jfcarbel,
As a former AD700 owner, I know how you feel. Some people I've talked to who had an AD700 and moved on to (many) other headphones and look back on the AD700 without much fondness because of their bass lack and upper-mids coloration (which I enjoyed with female vocals, though at the time I just wanted "flat").

I wish I could tell you that the AD900x is all you wish for, but though I had the AD700 for 3 years I never have had the chance to hear an AD900x. Was tempted recently because I saw one on sale for $100. FWIR it has more bass and slightly less broad soundstage, but some have thought that the imaging was less diffused and easier to place an object.

I DID try the Sony MA900, and if that had been the first thing I tried I might've gone with that. It has a bit less treble extension (a bit less fatiguing too!), a bit more midbass bump while not being "strong" or bleeding over anything else (ad700 user approved) but again not the deepest extension (further than the AD700 tho), and best of all really magical mids with clarity, natural timbre, and a fair bit of presence. Overall the tonal balance is mid-focused and not very dramatic or sharp. Soundstage is godlike as the AD700 were, imaging is also godlike and extremely good at imaging. It would be cool to hear these two headphones side-by-side, I honestly don't know which would win the soundstage war! The extreme light weight helps a lot with the comfort (the AD700 was super light too), the pads are different and maybe the driver cover is a bit on-ear but the pads are circumaural and there's a small gap to vent heat. Total irrelevant side-note: the gold slick fabric that lines the MA900's box makes me think of a boxer's shorts, lol. The MA900 was a champ, retired now by Sony with no direct successor, but I often see them on head-fi's F/S forum.

I ended up choosing an AKG Q701 as my step-up from the AD700. It had a little less soundstage depth (which responded well to amping!) but about the same width, and a sound signature with less brittle treble (still fairly strong treble), mids that were slightly less laid back, more solid bass that appears when you need it, and overall more extension in both treble and bass while also kicking in a more engaging and fun sound. There was this thing that would happen to me, even with just my old iPod 5th gen connected to a FiiO amp (today I'd recommend an E11k, or look at garage1217 tube amps), where I'd experience a pleasant tingling sensation rise up the top of my spine, neck, raising the hairs at the back of my neck and top of my head! The best description I have for that was an eargasm, unfortunately I have to say your mileage may vary.

I've tried other headphones too, but of the ones I've tried, those are the ones I'd point you to.


----------



## sinkie

with the Fidelio X2, is it easy to pin-point location of enemy and where gunshots are coming from in CS:GO? soundstage good enough?


----------



## Yethal

I've been digging into Sound Blaster X7 chat functionality a little bit more. The recent software update for the Soundblaster X7 added support for a USB Creative BT-W2 bluetooth transmitter which most probably means that the two devices can now be paired and used together. Now get this:
 On the support page for the transmitter there is an article explaining how to connect the device to the Playstation 4.
  
 http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=126731
  
 And as we already know the device does work together with the X7.
  
 I'll ask the Creative guys but it looks like this can be the intended chat solution for X7 users.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So we need to buy another piece of tech? Ah well, but hey, at least now we have *A* solution from Creative.


----------



## Yethal

I guess their reasoning was something along the lines of: "Hey, You've already spent 400 dollars on this device, might as well shell out 40 more for console chat."
  
 Think of it as a DLC that was cut from the main game and sold separately. This whole thing could've been avoided if Sony decided to add BT headsets support but hey, at least this solution is pretty elegant (and allows for headset usage).


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> I've been digging into Sound Blaster X7 chat functionality a little bit more. The recent software update for the Soundblaster X7 added support for a USB Creative BT-W2 bluetooth transmitter which most probably means that the two devices can now be paired and used together. Now get this:
> On the support page for the transmitter there is an article explaining how to connect the device to the Playstation 4.
> 
> http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=126731
> ...




Anyone see where this is available for purchase? I'm not seeing it on the creative store site.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone see where this is available for purchase? I'm not seeing it on the creative store site.


 
 http://en.europe.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/creative-bluetooth-audio-bt-w2-usb-transceiver/buy


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone see where this is available for purchase? I'm not seeing it on the creative store site.


 
  
 Here's the US link.
  
 http://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bluetooth-audio-bt-w2-usb-transceiver


----------



## rudyae86

Geeez, didn't think X7 was going to be that much problematic.
  
 Seems like I will wait a bit longer on purchasing an X7.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Geeez, didn't think X7 was going to be that much problematic.
> 
> Seems like I will wait a bit longer on purchasing an X7.


 
 The adapter is needed for PS4 only, PC users can just use USB for both game and chat audio. Although I agree that the X7 is a pain in the ass to setup compared to the Mixamp or the Recon, it more than makes up for that with it's versatility. Moreover, routing chat audio through the bluetooth adapter is actually quite convenient. Not as convenient as wired USB connection but convenient nonetheless.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, I feel like the Mixamp is just as much of a PITA to setup as the X7 (with a connection to the controller), and the Recon3D was pretty much the most simple (optical for game audio, USB for power and chat).

Adding the Bluetooth dongle makes for a pretty streamlined setup because you can finally use the X7's built-in mic. However, a Blue Snowball or cheap lapel mic will still be a better sounding mic because you put them closer to your mouth.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> *Right, I feel like the Mixamp is just as much of a PITA to setup as the X7 (with a connection to the controller)*, and the Recon3D was pretty much the most simple (optical for game audio, USB for power and chat).
> 
> Adding the Bluetooth dongle makes for a pretty streamlined setup because you can finally use the X7's built-in mic. However, a Blue Snowball or cheap lapel mic will still be a better sounding mic because you put them closer to your mouth.




I want to correct this statement and clarify that this is only with the wireless 5.8 when missing the USB chat cable. The OG and 2013+ mixamps are plug and chat (and power) via usb just like the Recon3D. Unless, you're missing that USB cable also. But... then... what if you're missing the USB cable to the recon3D? Catch my drift? At least the 5.8 gives you a second option (while being a PITA as it may) IF you are missing that piece, while still having power. The X7 has been a PITA for console until just now, for $40 extra bucks..

(In regards to use with the PS4, not XBOX One)

But yes I know the X7 sounds sooooo awesome . Might try it one day when the USB dongle is included and the price is a little more reasonable for me. Wait, the X7's chat plug-in (for use with my own mic) will work with that usb dongle, not just its built in mic, right?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Right, I feel like the Mixamp is just as much of a PITA to setup as the X7 (with a connection to the controller), and the Recon3D was pretty much the most simple (optical for game audio, USB for power and chat).
> 
> Adding the Bluetooth dongle makes for a pretty streamlined setup because you can finally use the X7's built-in mic. However, a Blue Snowball or cheap lapel mic will still be a better sounding mic because you put them closer to your mouth.


 
  
 My wireless Mixamp setup is stupid simple. Like Change mentioned I have the USB chat cable so I only need to plug my cable into the Mixamp receiver and that's it. I'd keep it over dealing with the X7/Bluetooth adapter combo.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> But yes I know the X7 sounds sooooo awesome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 X7 outputs the sound from my ModMic when connected via Bluetooth to my phone so I'm guessing that it will.


----------



## Alfisti89

Anyone knows if a mic like V-moda boom mic works with the Fidelio X2?  or Audio Technica ATH MSR7?
  
 Looking for a new pair for gaming,  currently got a modmic on my headphones but I don't like having two wires, looks to DIY    I would like wireless and was looking at the skullcandy plyr1 which seems to be decent, but the design and material in it seems abit fragile and after reading comments on amazon that they broke after 6months i dropped that


----------



## jincuteguy

alfisti89 said:


> Anyone knows if a mic like V-moda boom mic works with the Fidelio X2?  or Audio Technica ATH MSR7?
> 
> Looking for a new pair for gaming,  currently got a modmic on my headphones but I don't like having two wires, looks to DIY    I would like wireless and was looking at the skullcandy plyr1 which seems to be decent, but the design and material in it seems abit fragile and after reading comments on amazon that they broke after 6months i dropped that


 
  
 The Vmoda boom mic cable should work, I mean it's just a cable with a mic attrached to it so it shoudl work as long as you can connect to a headphone.
  
 Also, is there a better headphones other than the Philip X2 for that price range? CAuse the X2 looks so ugly and big.  
 What about the DT 990 250ohm Premium?


----------



## Alfisti89

jincuteguy said:


> The Vmoda boom mic cable should work, I mean it's just a cable with a mic attrached to it so it shoudl work as long as you can connect to a headphone.
> 
> Also, is there a better headphones other than the Philip X2 for that price range? CAuse the X2 looks so ugly and big.
> What about the DT 990 250ohm Premium?


 
  
 I kinda like the design of X2 better


----------



## kayan

So I've decided to return my x2 due to uncomfortableness with certain frequencies. I loved the sound signature though. Anyway,are there any headphones that sound similar that I can try next?


----------



## AxelCloris

alfisti89 said:


> Anyone knows if a mic like V-moda boom mic works with the Fidelio X2?  or Audio Technica ATH MSR7?
> 
> Looking for a new pair for gaming,  currently got a modmic on my headphones but I don't like having two wires, looks to DIY    I would like wireless and was looking at the skullcandy plyr1 which seems to be decent, but the design and material in it seems abit fragile and after reading comments on amazon that they broke after 6months i dropped that


 
  
 I'll confirm that the X2 and BoomPro work very well together. I was using that exact pairing last week. Now I have the Philips SHP9500 coming to try solely for gaming purposes.


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> I'll confirm that the X2 and BoomPro work very well together. I was using that exact pairing last week. Now I have the Philips SHP9500 coming to try solely for gaming purposes.


 
 Isn't the Philips SHP9500 is like $70? comapre to $300 X2


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> Isn't the Philips SHP9500 is like $70? comapre to $300 X2


 
  
 I ordered mine for $50. Yes there's a big price difference. But the X2 was not for me. The way it distributed the weight over the top of my head gave me headaches after long sessions so I sent them back. Audible gains are not worth physical discomfort. Besides I like less boom in my bass and the SHP9500 is said to have a lighter bottom.


----------



## burritoboy9984

axelcloris said:


> I ordered mine for $50. Yes there's a big price difference. But the X2 was not for me. The way it distributed the weight over the top of my head gave me headaches after long sessions so I sent them back. Audible gains are not worth physical discomfort. Besides I like less boom in my bass and the SHP9500 is said to have a lighter bottom.




Axel imo you will LOVE the 9500 for gaming. Look up the felt mod if it is too trebly for your taste once it arrives. I personally don't mind it as I had the AD700 before and it isn't nearly as trebly as it was, but others have done it and love it.


----------



## ubikutz

Hi guys!
  
  
 I've been reading this thread for two days already and I think I will faint if i read another post 
 I need a bit of help with building a system around my PS4 and a future HD800.
  
 What is the current best solution to get virtual surround out of the PS4 and feed something picky like the HD800s?
  
 I wanted to get a Matrix Mini PRO and Matrix HPA-3B as a balanced DAC/AMP combo for the HD800 as I've listened to it and sound really good. The DAC part has only digital inputs.
 It seems that I would need something to get the audio out of the PS4, process it to virtual surround but keep it digital and than further send it via optical to my DAC for proper decoding and than amping. Is that even possible?
  
  
 Thank you so much for the help !!!


----------



## jincuteguy

ubikutz said:


> Hi guys!
> 
> 
> I've been reading this thread for two days already and I think I will faint if i read another post
> ...


 
 Buy the Sound Blaster X7


----------



## ubikutz

jincuteguy said:


> Buy the Sound Blaster X7


 

 cool! and use it how? daisy chain it like this:
  
 PS4 -> SB X7 -> Matrix Mini PRO DAC -> Matrix HPA-3B AMP ?
  
 Would virtual surround work?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## jincuteguy

ubikutz said:


> cool! and use it how? daisy chain it like this:
> 
> PS4 -> SB X7 -> Matrix Mini PRO DAC -> Matrix HPA-3B AMP ?
> 
> ...


 
 X7 is all you need, you dont have to buy the Matrix DAC / Amp.  Just hooked up the X7 via Optical  to your PS4.  And hook up your HD800 to the Headphone Output from the X7.


----------



## Yethal

ubikutz said:


> cool! and use it how? daisy chain it like this:
> 
> PS4 -> SB X7 -> Matrix Mini PRO DAC -> Matrix HPA-3B AMP ?
> 
> ...


 
 There is a guy here @inseconds99 if I remember correctly who uses HD800 together with the X7 for gaming. Ask him about his feelings.


----------



## ubikutz

Thanks guyz, will pm him

Besides this, any surround sound processor that could maybe output the digital processed signal?


----------



## conquerator2

Only the X7 (via PC workaround, see Yethal post)


----------



## pervysage

Was thinking of getting a pair of AKG K7XX's for gaming purposes. I already have a TH900 that I use for both gaming and music at the moment. Was thinking that the K7XX might be better for gaming sessions as they are open, lighter, velour padded etc.

What do guys think? Should I just keep my $200 and stick with the TH900 for gaming as well? It's just that deal on Massdrop looks awfully tempting. How do the open AKG's compare with the closed TH900 for gaming purposes?


----------



## Hansotek

pervysage said:


> Was thinking of getting a pair of AKG K7XX's for gaming purposes. I already have a TH900 that I use for both gaming and music at the moment. Was thinking that the K7XX might be better for gaming sessions as they are open, lighter, velour padded etc.
> 
> What do guys think? Should I just keep my $200 and stick with the TH900 for gaming as well? It's just that deal on Massdrop looks awfully tempting. How do the open AKG's compare with the closed TH900 for gaming purposes?



Having tried both, I can tell you the K7XX is good, but it's got nothing on the TH900. I can't imagine scaling down and being satisfied. I mean, if you want something that is airy and lightweight, etc., it is all of those things. It's just that the TH900 sounds so much better in every conceivable way.


----------



## pervysage

hansotek said:


> Having tried both, I can tell you the K7XX is good, but it's got nothing on the TH900. I can't imagine scaling down and being satisfied. I mean, if you want something that is airy and lightweight, etc., it is all of those things. It's just that the TH900 sounds so much better in every conceivable way.




Hmmm.. I see.

I also found a pair of HD800's on Craigslist, practically brand new and only used for 20 mins to test out a DAC. They are asking $1000 Canadian which is not bad considering how bad the dollar is. Maybe that would be a better route to go for a good contrasting headphone to pair with the TH900.


----------



## Hansotek

pervysage said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Having tried both, I can tell you the K7XX is good, but it's got nothing on the TH900. I can't imagine scaling down and being satisfied. I mean, if you want something that is airy and lightweight, etc., it is all of those things. It's just that the TH900 sounds so much better in every conceivable way.
> ...



I, personally, LOVE the HD800 for gaming. They are supremely comfortable - they weigh nothing, the clamping force is perfect and the cups are super spacious. The soundstage and imaging put you in instant god mode. The detail level is crazy - it just puts you inside the game at every level. Finding a deal like that is crazy and rare. At that price, stop thinking about it and just get them!


----------



## pervysage

hansotek said:


> I, personally, LOVE the HD800 for gaming. They are supremely comfortable - they weigh nothing, the clamping force is perfect and the cups are super spacious. The soundstage and imaging put you in instant god mode. The detail level is crazy - it just puts you inside the game at every level. Finding a deal like that is crazy and rare. At that price, stop thinking about it and just get them!


 
  
 Sounds great. Just curious about your setup, is it a PC gaming setup or console as well?


----------



## shuto77

Looking to switch from AKG K7XXs to a sealed option. I'm aware of the trade-offs. Can anyone speak to how well the Momentum 2.0 over ear compares to the new Sony MDR-1A regarding gaming?


----------



## Fegefeuer

hansotek said:


> I, personally, LOVE the HD800 for gaming. They are supremely comfortable - they weigh nothing, the clamping force is perfect and the cups are super spacious. The soundstage and imaging put you in instant god mode. The detail level is crazy - it just puts you inside the game at every level. Finding a deal like that is crazy and rare. At that price, stop thinking about it and just get them!


 
  
 zhis


----------



## Sam21

I installed Xonar U3 just now. I see two XonarU3AudioCenter.exe's in the task manager, Is this normal ? I installed the latest driver by the way.


----------



## Hansotek

pervysage said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I, personally, LOVE the HD800 for gaming. They are supremely comfortable - they weigh nothing, the clamping force is perfect and the cups are super spacious. The soundstage and imaging put you in instant god mode. The detail level is crazy - it just puts you inside the game at every level. Finding a deal like that is crazy and rare. At that price, stop thinking about it and just get them!
> ...


 
  
 It's through the PS4. My setup is as follows:
  
 PS4 > Mixamp > Schiit Lyr (Telefunken E88CC tubes) > HD800
  
 I run a RCA to 1/8" male cable out of the back of my Lyr and swap it between a MixAmp, Gamma2 DAC and a Schiit Mani (with a 1/8" female to RCA adaptor plug) as needed.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I recently purchased the AD700x but I just noticed the Audio-Technica ATH-PDG1. Other than a boom mic is there much of sound difference?
 Also is the ATH-PDG1a 2015 model – it looks like the styling has been updated.


----------



## Evshrug

Verdana light,
I do believe it's just the styling and mic differences.


*For everyone,*
Looks like Creative is running a sale based on a San Francisco meet, they have 20% off of a lot of their high end items including the X7 LE, regular X7, their new bookshelf speakers, their headphones and IEMs, and soundcards:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/774751/coming-to-you-in-san-francisco-for-the-meetup/0_30#post_11765811


----------



## akatsuki

I've kind of decided the Sound Blaster X7 is just too much of a pain to get working with a PS4. Will probably just sell mine.
  
 Anyway, I just decided to give up on audiophile quality headphones and gaming, and went with a Steelseries H set of headphones. Will provide a brief, amateur review when they arrive - I can compare against Audio Technica M50s and Fidelio X2s since that is what I have on hand.


----------



## shuto77

I love the tech talk, obviously, but we should also talk about the games that sound great. (I know I'm not the first to throw this out there, ). 

I just picked up my PS4 a few weeks back and Batman: Arkham Knight sounds stupendous thru my Sound Blaster X7 and AKG K7XXs. 

What are the best-sounding games out there today on any platform?


----------



## jincuteguy

Hey MadLustEnvy, did you ever get your hands on the Senn HD700 for gaming? I heard it has the best soundstage which I thought is the best for gaming.  The only headphone that can beat it in soundstage is the HD800 but that is $1500.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No I haven't. And I'm wary of any mentions of bigger soundstages than the AD700. I tend to call BS on that.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> No I haven't. And I'm wary of any mentions of bigger soundstages than the AD700. I tend to call BS on that.


 
 Not even the HD800?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard it yet, but that is one I DO believe.


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> Hey MadLustEnvy, did you ever get your hands on the Senn HD700 for gaming? I heard it has the best soundstage which I thought is the best for gaming.  The only headphone that can beat it in soundstage is the HD800 but that is $1500.


 
  
 The HD700 has a nice soundstage, but from memory I'd give the edge to the AD700. The HD700 makes an excellent gaming headphone if the sound signature is to your liking.


----------



## burritoboy9984

axelcloris said:


> The HD700 has a nice soundstage, but from memory I'd give the edge to the AD700. The HD700 makes an excellent gaming headphone if the sound signature is to your liking.




Axel, you get the 9500's in yet?


----------



## AxelCloris

burritoboy9984 said:


> Axel, you get the 9500's in yet?


 
  
 They're currently burning in, but I won't get a chance to spend any time with them until Sunday at the earliest. I popped them on my head for a minute and first impression is that they're more comfortable than the X1/2. Good start.


----------



## jincuteguy

burritoboy9984 said:


> Axel, you get the 9500's in yet?


 
 What's 9500?


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> The HD700 has a nice soundstage, but from memory I'd give the edge to the AD700. The HD700 makes an excellent gaming headphone if the sound signature is to your liking.


 
 I know the AD700 has really no bass so for gaming it wouldn't be a good choice.  I heard the HD700 so better bass.


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> What's 9500?


 
  
 Philips SHP9500.
  


jincuteguy said:


> I know the AD700 has really no bass so for gaming it wouldn't be a good choice.  I heard the HD700 so better bass.


 
  
 If you're wanting bass then the AD700 isn't the headphone to choose, it's all about soundstage and positional queues. Bass can have a negative impact on those in many cases, which is why most "pro headsets" focus on highs and their associated details.


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> Philips SHP9500.
> 
> 
> If you're wanting bass then the AD700 isn't the headphone to choose, it's all about soundstage and positional queues. Bass can have a negative impact on those in many cases, which is why most "pro headsets" focus on highs and their associated details.


 
 Yea I had the AD700 before, and it literally has no "bass" whatsoever, plus it's uncomfortable on my head, even though it has no clamping force.  But the size and how the 3d wings are, they just don't sit on the head very well cause it's really loose and big , looks ugly on my head.
 And the Senn HD700 on the other hand is way better.  It might not have as big as soundstage as the AD700, but it's really close.  But the comfort is just insane, it's p rob the best comfortable headphone  out there.  In term of look, it def looks good on your head, the only headphone that looks better
 on the head is the HD800.  So for 6 years+ of trying to find the best gaming headphones with good bass, huge soundstage, comfortable, lightweight and good looking, the HD700 is the one.  There's not a single headphone out there that has all of these, except the HD800, but the HD800 is $1500 compare to $500, and the HD800 is a bit less comfortable than the HD700, but the HD800 is better good looking.


----------



## AxelCloris

I too used to find the HD700 to be the single most comfortable headphone I'd ever worn. But in the end the sound just didn't click with me the way I wanted. I'm a planar lover and that's been true since I first heard the Mad Dogs. Thankfully the MrSpeakers Ether has comfort that rivals, and possibly surpasses, the HD700 on my head. Great soundstage, awesome bass, and I think it looks gorgeous as well. I'm anxious for mine to finally ship later this month.
  
 And I'll be able to use my Ether with the BoomPro thanks to @cCasper TFG


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> I too used to find the HD700 to be the single most comfortable headphone I'd ever worn. But in the end the sound just didn't click with me the way I wanted. I'm a planar lover and that's been true since I first heard the Mad Dogs. Thankfully the MrSpeakers Ether has comfort that rivals, and possibly surpasses, the HD700 on my head. Great soundstage, awesome bass, and I think it looks gorgeous as well. I'm anxious for mine to finally ship later this month.
> 
> And I'll be able to use my Ether with the BoomPro thanks to @cCasper TFG


 
 Imo, all MrSpeakers headphones look ugly as hell to be honest.  And i think all planar headphones are really heavy compare to dynamic.


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> Imo, all MrSpeakers headphones look ugly as hell to be honest.  And i think all planar headphones are really heavy compare to dynamic.


 
  
 At 370g my HE400i were 10g less than the X2 and 60g less than the X1. Sure they're heavier than the Q701 and other dynamics but I had no issue with the HE400i's weight at all. The Ether is also 370g and it does an amazing job displacing that weight evenly over the top of the head, even better than the HE400i does.


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> At 370g my HE400i were 10g less than the X2 and 60g less than the X1. Sure they're heavier than the Q701 and other dynamics but I had no issue with the HE400i's weight at all. The Ether is also 370g and it does an amazing job displacing that weight evenly over the top of the head, even better than the HE400i does.


 
 Yea that's one of the reason why I didn't get the X2, heavy and big and bulky.
  
 The SEnn HD800 is the best looking headphone in the world imo.  I just don't get why other companies don't try to do headphones shape like that.


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> Yea that's one of the reason why I didn't get the X2, heavy and big and bulky.
> 
> The SEnn HD800 is the best looking headphone in the world imo.  I just don't get why other companies don't try to do headphones shape like that.


 
  
 The X2 doesn't seem to do as well displacing the weight and it ended up giving me headaches near my crown after extended gaming sessions.
  
 This is where I'm going to echo your thoughts on MrSpeakers' designs, I don't like the design of the HD800. It looks like it's backwards whenever people wear it properly and it's more comfortable backwards as well. The HD800 does nothing for me aesthetically. The HD700 spanks it in style.


----------



## PurpleCow

is it worth it to replace my HD598?


----------



## lenroot77

jincuteguy said:


> Imo, all MrSpeakers headphones look ugly as hell to be honest.  And i think all planar headphones are really heavy compare to dynamic.




Some of those mr speakers cups are sexy as hell !!!


----------



## Change is Good

I need some cheap beaters for gaming. My K7XX is currently in the middle of a warranty claim.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I need some cheap beaters for gaming. My K7XX is currently in the middle of a warranty claim.


 
  
 How cheap? $50? EMCAVKR86 still works for the SHP9500 on Newegg. Free shipping.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> How cheap? $50? EMCAVKR86 still works for the SHP9500 on Newegg. Free shipping.




They would be perfect, but that treble peak people mention scares me off. SRH1840, K612, and HP200 are probably my limit when it comes to bright headphones.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> They would be perfect, but that treble peak people mention scares me off. SRH1840, K612, and HP200 are probably my limit when it comes to bright headphones.


 
  
 I've heard there's a foam mod to tame the treble peak. I'll let you know how it is after some burn-in.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I've heard there's a foam mod to tame the treble peak. I'll let you know how it is after some burn-in.




Thanks!


----------



## jincuteguy

How is the soundstage (in terms of wider, bigger, larger soundstage) of the X2 compare to DT 990 Pro / Premium 250ohm for gaming? Thx.


----------



## ubikutz

I've finally got my gear together...
 Astro Mixamp PRO, IfI Micro iDSD and a pair of HD700..
 I've been testing them with my PS4 after letting the HD700 for 30 hour burn it.
  
 I've configured everything by the book, and i think the PS4 is correctly outputting DD Live 5.1 to the Mixamp, but I can't say I can tell much of a difference.
 I've been testing in CoD Advanced Warfare (I'm guessing that should have the audio part in check, no?  by pressing the Dolby Headphone button on/off to see the difference... not much there to see.
  
 Any way to fool proof test that the whole chain is working correctly with the PS4 and Mixamp?
 I've tried calibration bluerays with 5.1 speaker tests, but for those the PS4 immediately falls back to outputting stereo and not DD 5.1.
 I can easily check what's being output because my AV Receiver that is connected also via HDMI reports how the audio stream looks like.


----------



## Yethal

ubikutz said:


> I've finally got my gear together...
> Astro Mixamp PRO, IfI Micro iDSD and a pair of HD700..
> I've been testing them with my PS4 after letting the HD700 for 30 hour burn it.
> 
> ...


 
 Set primary output to Optical, priority to Bitstream Dolby
 In-game set to surround speakers (if AW has such a setting) if not, set to Hi-Fi/Home Cinema whatever
 And You definitely have it set up wrong, I've used Astro Mixamp Pro for quite some time and the difference between that and regular stereo is like night and day.


----------



## Evshrug

The big thing about Advanced Warfare audio, for me, is that regardless of stereo or surround the sound of the exo suit (thrusters, clanks, etc) is essentially located smack dab center image, and you use it so often that it drowns out a lot of the more subtle stuff and keeps your brain from getting used to how things are oriented.

CoD:AW does definitely do surround tho, maybe I'll take pics of my tv and post what settings I use for ya. I work till 9 tho, so 4 and a half more hours.


----------



## Yethal

It can't be as bad as BF4 which does not differentiate between "2 metres away, this guy needs to hear that" and "200 metres away, he doesn't need to hear that".


----------



## ubikutz

Thanks for the help mates!
I'll restart this afternoon with a clear mind and double check all my settings.
Any place in COD:AW where i could reliably check audio queues? I was using the zombies chase you mode however that is a bit too dynamic for accurate tests


----------



## Yethal

ubikutz said:


> Thanks for the help mates!
> I'll restart this afternoon with a clear mind and double check all my settings.
> Any place in COD:AW where i could reliably check audio queues? I was using the zombies chase you mode however that is a bit too dynamic for accurate tests


 
 Custom game with no bots, throw a molotov/phosphorus grenade/whatever it is called and start spinning around


----------



## ubikutz

yethal said:


> Custom game with no bots, throw a molotov/phosphorus grenade/whatever it is called and start spinning around


 

 I have no more clue what to try... :-/
  
 I've simplified the setup as such:
 Video -> PS4 directly connected to my monitor via HDMI
 Audio -> PS4 connected via optical and USB to the astro mix amp that drives the HD700 via headphone out
  
 I've rechecked all the audio settings on the console and also checked some new ones provided by Astro support:
Settings > Sound and Screen > Audio Output Settings > Primary Output Port > Digital Out (optical)
Settings > Sound and Screen > Audio Output Settings > Audio Format > Bitstream Dolby
Settings > Devices > Audio Devices > Input Device > USB Headset 
Settings > Devices > Audio Devices > Output Device > USB Headset
Settings > Devices > Audio Devices > Output to Headphones > Chat Audio
I've restarted the console.
  
I've tried CoD:AW, Far Cry and Tomb Raider. I cannot see any difference while pressing the Dolby button. I've tried playing with bots, the campaign and so on.
  
Just to make sure the games are not very bad themselves, I've switched to my Sony Gold Wireless with Virtual Surround, where everything "just works" with the PS4 and used Tomb Raider that shows the Dolby logo at startup.
I've disabled and enabled Virtual Surround and with the Sonys I do perceive a change in soundstage (seems like the room gets bigger and there is more reverb), but besides this in Tomb Raider the audio queues for things behind me left and right are virtually identical to stereo downmixing (virtual surround off).
  
 So I'm guessing:
 - the games I've tried have poor audio sountrack and there is little audible differnce between virtual surround and stereo downmixing so even if it's working not much there to see
 - my mixamp is deffective
 - i'm really dum or deaf  (hope not as i've been working in IT all my life and i enjoy this hobby )
  
 ....  :/


----------



## Yethal

ubikutz said:


> I have no more clue what to try... :-/
> 
> I've simplified the setup as such:
> Video -> PS4 directly connected to my monitor via HDMI
> ...


 
 The settings are good. If You can't hear the difference check again if the USB output is set to Chat Audio and not all Audio (alternatively, power the Mixamp off another device such as PC to be 100% sure). If You have it in Your library, download P.T (Silent Hills demo) it has excellent audio engine. Also, try it with less power hungry headphones than the HD700 or daisy chain a headphone amp to the Mixamp.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> The settings are good. If You can't hear the difference check again if the USB output is set to Chat Audio and not all Audio (alternatively, power the Mixamp off another device such as PC to be 100% sure). *If You have it in Your library, download P.T *(Silent Hills demo) it has excellent audio engine. Also, try it with less power hungry headphones than the HD700 or daisy chain a headphone amp to the Mixamp.




No longer downloadable. If it wasn't already installed when it was removed, then it is lost...


----------



## dafadau

Hi.
  
 I'm struggling a little with which headphones to get, even after reading this excellent guide. My main problem is that I think I want the Alpha Primes, but they're a bit of a bugger to get shipped to the UK; namely that I won't know exactly when they'll arrive and I'm due to be out of the country for most of next week. So I need some alternative options.
  
 So, my setup:
  

*Budget* - £650 max.
*Source* – PC: Creative X-Fi Titanium HD
*Requirements for Isolation* – Closed; I’ll be using them at home, mostly for gaming, some music. I need closed to avoid my girlfriend flipping out...
*Preferred Type of Headphone* – Full Size
*Preferred tonal balance* – As they’re for gaming, they’ll need balance
*Past headphones* – AKG 550; nothing wrong with them really, but want to upgrade as I don't find them the best for gaming, and a bit of a let-down for music.
*Preferred Music* – Indie, folk, electronic, rock
*What would you like to improve on from your set-up* – More detail, direction, presence.
*Location* - UK
 

  
 Any advice gratefully received!


----------



## ubikutz

yethal said:


> The settings are good. If You can't hear the difference check again if the USB output is set to Chat Audio and not all Audio (alternatively, power the Mixamp off another device such as PC to be 100% sure). If You have it in Your library, download P.T (Silent Hills demo) it has excellent audio engine. Also, try it with less power hungry headphones than the HD700 or daisy chain a headphone amp to the Mixamp.


 

 Thanks a million mate u rocked it!
 It was option nr. 3 - dumb user 
  
 Triple checked and I had Output to Headphones set to All Audio instead of Chat Audio (somehow during setup my mind set it to All Audio despite the Astro instructions).
  
 Now yes i can feel a difference !!! in CoD:AW you can pinpoint the location where they're shooting! Stereo downmix is just a bag of fuzziness.
  
 Hurraaaay! Let's rock!


----------



## AxelCloris

dafadau said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm struggling a little with which headphones to get, even after reading this excellent guide. My main problem is that I think I want the Alpha Primes, but they're a bit of a bugger to get shipped to the UK; namely that I won't know exactly when they'll arrive and I'm due to be out of the country for most of next week. So I need some alternative options.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Shame that you can't get the Alphas as the non-primes are still my favorite closed-back headphone for gaming. They were incredible. My recommendations to you would be the Oppo PM-3, Master & Dynamic MH40, and Audio Technica ATH-M40x.
  
 It's not hard to get more detail than the AKG 550. They're a very unimpressive headphone to me.


----------



## dafadau

axelcloris said:


> Shame that you can't get the Alphas as the non-primes are still my favorite closed-back headphone for gaming. They were incredible. My recommendations to you would be the Oppo PM-3, Master & Dynamic MH40, and Audio Technica ATH-M40x.
> 
> It's not hard to get more detail than the AKG 550. They're a very unimpressive headphone to me.


 
  
 Thanks! I've really tried to like the AKG 550, but I completely agree - they're very underwhelming.


----------



## AxelCloris

dafadau said:


> Thanks! I've really tried to like the AKG 550, but I completely agree - they're very underwhelming.


 
  
 I found that the primary issue with them is the seal. It takes a lot of effort to get them sealed properly and on my narrow-ish head it was next to impossible without applying pressure to the outside of the cups. That and, of the entire AKG family, they sounded the most lifeless and confused in their cohesion to me.


----------



## Evshrug

ubikutz said:


> Thanks a million mate u rocked it!
> It was option nr. 3 - dumb user
> 
> Triple checked and I had Output to Headphones set to All Audio instead of Chat Audio (somehow during setup my mind set it to All Audio despite the Astro instructions).
> ...




When I saw your list of settings, I was going to tell you to make sure that you weren't sending audio to the mixamp through USB... the playstation only sends stereo through USB.
JUST found which box my X7 was packed in for the move (the retail box in the closet next to the TV, of course), and JUST got Comcast to install the internet today. Woowho!!!


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> Shame that you can't get the Alphas as the non-primes are still my favorite closed-back headphone for gaming. They were incredible. My recommendations to you would be the Oppo PM-3, Master & Dynamic MH40, and Audio Technica ATH-M40x.
> 
> It's not hard to get more detail than the AKG 550. They're a very unimpressive headphone to me.




Yeah I would particularly like to try the Alphas (dog or prime), as they're notable among closed cans for their comfort and soundstage. That is what I'd buy based on reviews, if I was in the market.

I do have a pair of Oppo PM-3. With a detailed source (so maybe not the Tritton base station & puck thingie), the PM-3 has a good center image and sense of depth, so while the soundstage isn't as wide as my open AKGs the PM-3 does image well and work well with surround processing. It takes a little wiggle to get the right comfort (seal isn't a problem), but then it's comfortable for much longer than my previous closed headphones [plural, Axel] and look pretty classy if you want to take them to work, too. I still prefer as much marathon comfort as possible, but that doesn't mean closed headphones can't be awesome in their class.


----------



## Change is Good

+1 for the PM-3


----------



## Sam21

-100 for PM-3 lawl


----------



## Hansotek

+101 for the PM-3.


----------



## Yethal

ubikutz said:


> Thanks a million mate u rocked it!
> It was option nr. 3 - dumb user
> 
> Triple checked and I had Output to Headphones set to All Audio instead of Chat Audio (somehow during setup my mind set it to All Audio despite the Astro instructions).
> ...


 
 I'm glad everything worked out for You mate.


change is good said:


> No longer downloadable. If it wasn't already installed when it was removed, then it is lost...


 
 That's a shame. That game is the perfect tool for headphone testing


----------



## kayan

Can anyone who has heard both compare the sound and comfort of the Shure 1540 vs Fostex TH600 for me?


----------



## AxelCloris

You Won't Believe What This 20 Second Modification Can Do For The SHP9500.


----------



## PurpleAngel

axelcloris said:


> It's not hard to get more detail than the AKG 550. They're a very unimpressive headphone to me.


 
  
 I thought the AKG K550 had great detail in the audio, but in general the over all sound is fairly boring.


----------



## Evshrug

Axel,
Seems to me that the 20 second mod would make it harder to tell if you're putting them on backwards 
Is there other R/L indicators than the big gray letters [that used to be] on the grilles?


Ugh, Yethal, I got to play P.T. on a 3D plasma display, with my X7+K712, FREAAAAAKY **** MAN! Almost too much realism to handle. Don't like the raspy breathing from behind, whispers in my ear, blood dripping from the fridge... Definitely carefully engineered sound design, but sPoooooookyyyyyy! One thing, however, I never had the brown bag sing to me, do you know anyway to "reset" the demo to start over at the beginning?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Axel,
> Seems to me that the 20 second mod would make it harder to tell if you're putting them on backwards
> Is there other R/L indicators than the big gray letters [that used to be] on the grilles?


 

 Yup.



 Plus it's a single entry headphone, the cable always goes on the left.
  
 Then on top of that, the cups feel awkward backwards since the cups have a slight forward angle to hug the head.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Axel,
> Seems to me that the 20 second mod would make it harder to tell if you're putting them on backwards
> Is there other R/L indicators than the big gray letters [that used to be] on the grilles?
> 
> ...




I never tried, but maybe deleting your save file will start you back in the beginning?

Axel, I need more info on your new discovery, pretty please. Treble is my main concern, so if you can compare it (after mod) to other familiars it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Axel, I need more info on your new discovery, pretty please. Treble is my main concern, so if you can compare it (after mod) to other familiars it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


 
  
 I'm still getting a feel for the headphone pre-mod. The "mod" I did simply removed the hideous L/R labels from the grills, nothing more.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I'm still getting a feel for the headphone pre-mod. The "mod" I did simply removed the hideous L/R labels from the grills, nothing more.




Sorry, I thought you were referring (in those pictures) to the foam mod you mentioned a short while back. Cool beans. Let me know once you get a feel pre and post foam (should you decide to do the mod).


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Sorry, I thought you were referring (in those pictures) to the foam mod you mentioned a short while back. Cool beans. Let me know once you get a feel pre and post foam (should you decide to do the mod).


 
  
 I'll be getting around to the foam mod before too long, I'm sure. I need more burn-in on the headphones before doing anything that will change the sound. From how it sounds now I'll probably end up going for the foam mod to get a more balanced sound out of it.
  
 It's definitely not for bassheads, pre-mod, so it may not be up your alley.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> I'll be getting around to the foam mod before too long, I'm sure. I need more burn-in on the headphones before doing anything that will change the sound. From how it sounds now I'll probably end up going for the foam mod to get a more balanced sound out of it.
> 
> *It's definitely not for bassheads, pre-mod, so it may not be up your alley.*




I'm only borderline, and even then it's not a must when gaming. Soundstage and positioning is what I look for most in gaming cans. I know it's been a while since you had the HP200, but if you can compare from memory that would be nice.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Axel,
> Seems to me that the 20 second mod would make it harder to tell if you're putting them on backwards
> Is there other R/L indicators than the big gray letters [that used to be] on the grilles?
> 
> ...


 
 There is no option to delete save file for that game (pretty sure Kojima did that on purpose), You can however, create a new guest user on the console and play it again on the second user account. I do it every time somebody comes over and I want to show P.T to them.


----------



## LINKUZZZ

*What Should I Get for New Setup:*
  
*Philips Fidelio X2/27 Headphones* (8.25/8.25/8.25 - 8.5 Overall Score)
 CDN $383.70 - CDN $402 Shipped
  
 or
  
*AKG K7XX Massdrop Limited Edition Headphones* (8.25/8.5/9 - 9 Overall Score)
 USD $225 Shipped = CDN $292.99 + Extra Charges CDN $350 to $400
  
 Paired with
  
*Sound Blaster X7 (DAC/AMP)* - CDN $418 Shipped
  
 and 
  
*V-Moda BoomPro Gaming Headset Mic* - CDN $35 Shipped
  
  
*Questions:*
  
*1. How can I pair the V-Moda BoomPro Mic with the AKG K7XX, if I get that option?*
*2. The AKG K7XX should be the same as a AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition in terms of scoring on this tread correct? Maybe better or worst.*
*3. Does the Sound Blaster X7 color the sound of both headphones negatively? *
*4. If I have the money should I get the Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition?*
*5. I heard there were problems with low hiss on the Mic output of the X7 Limited Edition, which might be isolated to the review product. Will anyone confirm that this is a core problem with the X7 LE?*
*6. In terms of build quality which headphone is better? I drop my headphones a lot as I'm a gamer.*
  
*Note: Main use for the headphones is for competitive PC (maybe console) gaming, so a good mic is necessary. I also want an alrounder balanced headphone, which I believe these headphones both fit. *


----------



## PurpleAngel

I think the Creative Sound Blaster ZxR sound card would be better for your use, over the Creative X7.
 Buy a used K7XX and have the shipper claim a low value, to keep the import tax down


----------



## Yethal

linkuzzz said:


> *What Should I Get for New Setup:*
> 
> *Philips Fidelio X2/27 Headphones* (8.25/8.25/8.25 - 8.5 Overall Score)
> CDN $383.70 - CDN $402 Shipped
> ...


 
 Well, that's a bold question.
  
 And now for something serious, get an X2, it will be easier to use with the BoomPro, the K7xx require an adapter that's hard to come by.
 As for the X7, they do not color the sound negatively although YMMV. Don't go for limited edition unless You plan on using larger speakers with it. As for the mic hiss I did not observe such behavior with my modmic.


----------



## LINKUZZZ

purpleangel said:


> I think the Creative Sound Blaster ZxR sound card would be better for your use, over the Creative X7.
> Buy a used K7XX and have the shipper claim a low value, to keep the import tax down


 
 Just wondering how a Creative Sound Blaster ZxR is better than the X7 other than price? Good suggestion on the K7XX, I might try that if I go that option.
  
 Also if I go with the X7, I might pair it with the E-MU XM7 Bookshelf Speakers as the combo is on sale right now.


----------



## Vespira

hi, my name is samet and this my first post. i would like to ask a question about sound card. i have a creative sb z, if i buy k612 or fidelio x2 i need amp for it? just im tired of dying in csgo.


----------



## Yethal

vespira said:


> hi, my name is samet and this my first post. i would like to ask a question about sound card. i have a creative sb z, if i buy k612 or fidelio x2 i need amp for it? just im tired of dying in csgo.


 
 Amp will not make You die less, but it could make the headphones sound better.


----------



## Change is Good

Seems like massdrop read my mind about needing a beater for gaming. That M220 for $69 looks tempting. Anyone familiar with this older AKG variant?


----------



## pervysage

Just something I was wondering about. Is it possible to input audio into the Soumdblaster ZxR from a game console via optical in and then have software turn that into virtual surround for a headphone outputted through the optical out?

So basically have the ZxR do the job of a Mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

pervysage said:


> Just something I was wondering about. Is it possible to input audio into the Soumdblaster ZxR from a game console via optical in and then have software turn that into virtual surround for a headphone outputted through the optical out?
> 
> So basically have the ZxR do the job of a Mixamp?


 
 Nope, Dolby Digital (audio codec used for multichannel sound via optical) is a closed design by Dolby, they specifically asked for that kind of setup to be impossible via software.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Seems like massdrop read my mind about needing a beater for gaming. That M220 for $69 looks tempting. Anyone familiar with this older AKG variant?




These look pretty cool, similar to the k240's?


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> These look pretty cool, similar to the k240's?




Yeah. Does look pretty cool in white.


----------



## Sam21

pervysage said:


> Just something I was wondering about. Is it possible to input audio into the Soumdblaster ZxR from a game console via optical in and then have software turn that into virtual surround for a headphone outputted through the optical out?
> 
> So basically have the ZxR do the job of a Mixamp?


 
 you can output 2-channel PCM from the console into the sound card and then have the sound card's DSP turn that into virtual surround. SBX/THX surround can create virtual surround from 2/5.1/7.1 channels. I have not tested to see if the virtual surround is equally good in all cases. so maybe you could test it and then tell us ?


----------



## NamelessPFG

sam21 said:


> you can output *2-channel PCM from the console into the sound card* and then have the sound card's DSP turn that into virtual surround. SBX/THX surround can create virtual surround from 2/5.1/7.1 channels. I have not tested to see if the virtual surround is equally good in all cases. so maybe you could test it and then tell us ?


 
  
 NOPE. That's pointless when the DSP only gets two channels worth of spatial information to begin with. The only time that even remotely works is if the two channels are actually a Dolby Pro Logic (II)-encoded signal being run through a proper decoder to separate all the matrixed 5.1 channels, and the Creative cards don't serve as decoders.
  
 Even then, the only console that even bothers with Pro Logic II through S/PDIF is the PS2, since it couldn't encode Dolby Digital on-the-fly like the Xbox; all other consoles with the output built-in already support Dolby Digital/DTS encoding in games, and Nintendo consoles prior to the Wii U historically used it simply because they didn't have S/PDIF output at all.
  
 These things are only useful when they're getting a 5.1/7.1 signal to begin with. Mad Lust Envy's already made a point of this several times. It's like trying to make FLACs out of lossy MP3s.
  
 Right now, your only options for THX TSP/SBX Pro Surround are through the Recon3D USB (which has an S/PDIF input with Dolby Digital decoder specifically for console use) and X7. Internal sound cards don't work for this because Dolby and DTS refuse to license out the decoding capabilities for sound card S/PDIF inputs, as I understand.
  
 It's sorta the same crap that resulted in HDMI getting saddled with HDCP and HDMI capture cards inherently not supporting HDCP signals because the HDMI consortium would never license out a capture card that did, much to the consternation of anyone who just wants to stream/record a clean digital A/V feed from a PS3.


----------



## stuckpig9

Hi Guys,
  
 Bear with me if this has been answered but I can't seem to figure it out on my own.
  
 PS4 optical > Fiio D03K > Yamaha AS500 > Philips Fidelio X1's
  
 I just bought a Sony ECM-CS3 but when I plug it into the controller I can't get the mic to work.
  
 How can I get the PS4 to recognize the mic for chat only and use the headphones for game and chat audio?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## playmate

axelcloris said:


> I'm still getting a feel for the headphone pre-mod. The "mod" I did simply removed the hideous L/R labels from the grills, nothing more.


 
 So you just removed the paint from the grill? How is that supposed to do anything? 
 Anyway, I am leaning towards trying the SHP9500. Please tell us more Alex - especially in regards of gaming! I've heard mixed things about the soundstage. Some say it's amazing, others are disappointed.


----------



## Sam21

namelesspfg said:


> NOPE. That's pointless when the DSP only gets two channels worth of spatial information to begin with. The only time that even remotely works is if the two channels are actually a Dolby Pro Logic (II)-encoded signal being run through a proper decoder to separate all the matrixed 5.1 channels, and the Creative cards don't serve as decoders.
> 
> Even then, the only console that even bothers with Pro Logic II through S/PDIF is the PS2, since it couldn't encode Dolby Digital on-the-fly like the Xbox; all other consoles with the output built-in already support Dolby Digital/DTS encoding in games, and Nintendo consoles prior to the Wii U historically used it simply because they didn't have S/PDIF output at all.
> 
> ...


 
 How can Dolby Pro Logic II/IIx/IIz upmatrix a 2-channel PCM to 5.1/7.1/9.1 respectively and then feed the channels to the surround virtualizer and create virtual surround  ? in the same manner, SBX/THX first upmatrix 2 channels and then create virtual surround out of it. I have not compared the SBX surround when we feed it with 2/5.1/7.1 channels, maybe someone could do that for us ?


----------



## AxelCloris

playmate said:


> So you just removed the paint from the grill? How is that supposed to do anything?
> Anyway, I am leaning towards trying the SHP9500. Please tell us more Alex - especially in regards of gaming! I've heard mixed things about the soundstage. Some say it's amazing, others are disappointed.


 
  
 It's a cosmetic mod to make them less ugly. That's the entire purpose of getting rid of the R and L markers on the grills. Soundstage still feels a bit confused, but I haven't played with them recently and they're continuing to burn in. Impressions when I have them and I'm done with my current product reviews.


----------



## LINKUZZZ

So in terms sounds card the Creative Sound Blaster ZXR is better than the Asus STX 2 7.1? Recommended more than the Sound Blaster X7?


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> There is no option to delete save file for that game (pretty sure Kojima did that on purpose), You can however, create a new guest user on the console and play it again on the second user account. I do it every time somebody comes over and I want to show P.T to them.



Strange. I deleted the save file many times to start over. It is in my save file folder so just delete that and it will start anew.

Also, to the X7 SPDIF pass-through workararound - If anyone is having trouble, setting what you hear as default device did wonders to me. When it wasnt it wouldnt output audio most of the time. Setting it to default seem to lock the X7 to that output so now it works every time! Now enjoying pristine surround from my rig :O


----------



## dafadau

dafadau said:


> Hi.
> 
> I'm struggling a little with which headphones to get, even after reading this excellent guide. My main problem is that I think I want the Alpha Primes, but they're a bit of a bugger to get shipped to the UK; namely that I won't know exactly when they'll arrive and I'm due to be out of the country for most of next week. So I need some alternative options.
> 
> ...


 
  
 So I think I've narrowed it down to: Shure SRH1540 or the Final Audio Design Pandora Hope VI. Any views on these for gaming?


----------



## AxelCloris

dafadau said:


> So I think I've narrowed it down to: Shure SRH1540 or the Final Audio Design Pandora Hope VI. Any views on these for gaming?


 
  
 I don't remember reading anyone say that they've used the FAD headphone, but the SRH1540 has been mentioned around these parts. It's even on the first page, in the first post. MLE did a review of the headphone a while back. Search the thread for that headphone, there has been a lot of mention over the months.


----------



## NamelessPFG

sam21 said:


> How can Dolby Pro Logic II/IIx/IIz upmatrix a 2-channel PCM to 5.1/7.1/9.1 respectively and then feed the channels to the surround virtualizer and create virtual surround  ? in the same manner, SBX/THX first upmatrix 2 channels and then create virtual surround out of it. I have not compared the SBX surround when we feed it with 2/5.1/7.1 channels, maybe someone could do that for us ?


 
  
 Dolby Pro Logic employs phase-shifting within the two discrete channels to add the rear channels. Center channel's just the common parts of left and right.
  
 A proper decoder will pick up the intentionally out-of-phase parts of the signal and put them in the right places, while leaving them out of the other channels. It's inherently more susceptible to crosstalk between the matrixed channels than a discrete channel format, but it works in a pinch.
  
 That means the signal has to be pre-mixed beforehand at the source. It is NOT a plain stereo signal (as people often mistake it for, since Pro Logic decoding has to be manually toggled and cannot be automatically recognized like AC3/Dolby Digital or DTS), hence why any Pro Logic-compatible game has separate "Stereo" and "Surround" sound options to enable the channel matrixing as desired. (Ideally, they'd have a native binaural mix for headphones so we don't have to muck about with external surround processors, but that's another topic entirely.)
  
 THX/SBX, when utilized properly, do NOT take a two-channel source and upmix it into virtual surround: they DOWNMIX a 5.1/7.1-channel source into two channels in a way that sounds like surround speakers over headphones. This also applies to every other virtual surround tech. About all you'd get when applying it to a two-channel signal is the sense of stereo speakers in front of you, no rear channels.


----------



## Sam21

namelesspfg said:


> Dolby Pro Logic employs phase-shifting within the two discrete channels to add the rear channels. Center channel's just the common parts of left and right.
> 
> A proper decoder will pick up the intentionally out-of-phase parts of the signal and put them in the right places, while leaving them out of the other channels. It's inherently more susceptible to crosstalk between the matrixed channels than a discrete channel format, but it works in a pinch.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Whether you set the source to output 2-channels or 8-channels , the game still outputs all of the sounds in the game , in other words. all of the sounds you hear when 8-channels is outputted, is also heard when the game outputs 2-channels. so in your words, everything is pre-mixed when there is a 2-channels output.
  
 I know that SBX/THX creates a 2-channels surround, What I wanted to say is that it also has an up-matrixing component. Take the Creative GO! Pro for instance, You cannot configure it to accept multi channels, it only accepts 2-channels, which justifies my theory.


----------



## Change is Good

After reading chico's review of the K240, I think I'm going to go ahead and grab the M220. Will probably alsi pick up some AKG velour pads to help with comfort and its rolled off treble. Wish I would have just kept my spare pads I had for the K612. This will be my third time buying a pair of those angled Q701 pads. Grrrr...


----------



## Sam21

quotes from Wikipedia.
  
 "A newer _Dolby Pro Logic IIx_ system is also now available, *which can take two-channel stereo*, Dolby Surround (sometimes called Dolby Stereo Surround) and Dolby Digital 5.1 source material and up-convert it to 6.1 or 7.1 channel surround "
  
 "DPL II processes *any high quality stereo signal *source into five separate full frequency channels (right front, center, left front, right rear and left rear). "


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> After reading chico's review of the K240, I think I'm going to go ahead and grab the M220. Will probably alsi pick up some AKG velour pads to help with comfort and its rolled off treble. Wish I would have just kept my spare pads I had for the K612. This will be my third time buying a pair of those angled Q701 pads. Grrrr...




Looks like these have normal slip on pads instead of lock on. Hmmmmm, alcantara pads? I regret selling those worse, now, than the AKG pads. Ahhhhhhhh!!! Grrrrrr...

Ahhhhhhhh!!!


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Looks like these have normal slip on pads instead of lock on. Hmmmmm, alcantara pads? I regret selling those worse, now, than the AKG pads. Ahhhhhhhh!!! Grrrrrr...
> 
> Ahhhhhhhh!!!


 
  
 http://smile.amazon.com/Cosmos-Velvet-Replacement-Cushion-Headphones/dp/B00KLPRQMO
  
 Cheap, but may work well for you.


----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> I have not compared the SBX surround when we feed it with 2/5.1/7.1 channels, maybe someone could do that for us ?




Done.

With a stereo source, turning on virtual surround pushes a "centered position" sound away in front of you, and everything with more left or right directionality just follows a shallow "arc" shape in front of you. No rear cues at all, extra reverb over a straight stereo signal, I don't like it as much as just straight stereo 95% of the time.

With a surround source, there is a more realistic separation of front and behind in addition to left/right. On consoles, still no emulation of height (except for less than a handful of games that do a "just okay" in-game processing).





conquerator2 said:


> Strange. I deleted the save file many times to start over. It is in my save file folder so just delete that and it will start anew.
> 
> Also, to the X7 SPDIF pass-through workararound - If anyone is having trouble, setting what you hear as default device did wonders to me. When it wasnt it wouldnt output audio most of the time. Setting it to default seem to lock the X7 to that output so now it works every time! Now enjoying pristine surround from my rig :O




I deleted my save file, started the game and the hallways were already green. I mean to create another profile to follow Yethal's suggestion.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I deleted my save file, started the game and the hallways were already green. I mean to create another profile to follow Yethal's suggestion.


 
 Interesting. It resets me to the beginning 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Maybe having a European/American version makes a difference...
 Though it sounds unlikely


----------



## NamelessPFG

sam21 said:


> Whether you set the source to output 2-channels or 8-channels , the game still outputs all of the sounds in the game , in other words. all of the sounds you hear when 8-channels is outputted, is also heard when the game outputs 2-channels. so in your words, everything is pre-mixed when there is a 2-channels output.
> 
> I know that SBX/THX creates a 2-channels surround, What I wanted to say is that it also has an up-matrixing component. Take the Creative GO! Pro for instance, You cannot configure it to accept multi channels, it only accepts 2-channels, which justifies my theory.


 
  
 It'd be foolish for the game developer to not downmix the 8-channel sounds into a 2-channel format when some form of 2-channel output is selected, because if they outright axed the extra channels, the missing sounds would be pretty obvious.
  
 However, the simple fact is that now you have all those sounds being squeezed into two spatial locations rather than seven. That's a lot of loss of directionality right there with how most games mix their audio, especially console games.
  
 There may indeed be an upmixing component, but this is where things get confusing because these companies don't know how to brand things right. Perfect example: CMSS-3D.
  
 You have CMSS-3D Surround, which is strictly an upmixer for stereo sources to fill a surround speaker system. But you also have CMSS-3D Headphone and CMSS-3D Virtual, which are surround downmixers for headphones and stereo speakers respectively. Very different processes, largely similar branding.
  
 I have reason to believe Dolby Pro Logic suffers similarly in terms of being used as a brand for upmixing AND matrix channel encoding/decoding.
  


sam21 said:


> quotes from Wikipedia.
> 
> "A newer _Dolby Pro Logic IIx_ system is also now available, *which can take two-channel stereo*, Dolby Surround (sometimes called Dolby Stereo Surround) and Dolby Digital 5.1 source material and up-convert it to 6.1 or 7.1 channel surround "
> 
> "DPL II processes *any high quality stereo signal *source into five separate full frequency channels (right front, center, left front, right rear and left rear). "


 
  
 IIx and IIz are where things get really fuzzy compared to everything before that on the same Wikipedia page, as if Dolby Labs themselves started pitching it as more of an upmixing feature than a matrix encoding technique, first with the extra 7.1 side channels for IIx, and then with the 9.1 height channels for IIz.
  
 Here's the parts I focus on when I say it's actually a phase-shift technique to encode surround channels into a two-channel signal:
  
 "Dolby Surround/Pro Logic is based on basic matrix technology. *When a Dolby Surround soundtrack is created, four channels of sound are matrix-encoded into an ordinary stereo (two channel) sound track.* The centre channel is encoded by placing it equally in the left and right channels; *the rear channel is encoded using phase shift techniques, typically an out of phase stereo mixdown.* A Pro Logic decoder/processor "unfolds" the sound into the original 4.0 surround—left and right, center, and a single limited frequency-range (7 kHz low-pass filtered[1]) mono rear channel—while systems lacking the decoder play back the audio as standard stereo."
  
 Can't make it any clearer than that, really. Pro Logic II's main improvement here is just that it separates the rear channel into distinct rear left and rear right channels.

 "DPL II processes any high quality stereo signal source into five separate full frequency channels (right front, center, left front, right rear and left rear)."
  
 Okay, sounds like upmixing again...then it goes straight into matrixed surround decoding in the next sentence.
  
 "*Dolby Pro Logic II also decodes 5 channels from stereo signals encoded in traditional four-channel Dolby Surround.* DPL II implements greatly enhanced steering compared to DPL, and as a result, offers an exceptionally stable sound field that simulates 5 channel surround sound."
  
 Note the mention of Dolby Surround again; perhaps that's the phase-shift encoding I've been talking about. The same page even touches upon this.

 "Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro Logic *decoders* are similar in principle, as *both use matrix technology to extract extra channels from stereo-encoded audio.* However, Dolby Surround only decodes the rear surround channel, while Dolby Pro Logic also decodes the center channel. Pro Logic uses advanced algorithms, superior to the earlier home Dolby Surround system and similar to the original cinema Dolby Stereo processors, in order to not only extract the extra channels, but to also improve steering and discreteness between the channels."
  
 So I guess it's Dolby Surround -> Dolby Pro Logic -> Dolby Pro Logic II as far as the basic matrixing technique goes.

 "Pro Logic II system also features a mode designed specifically for video gaming, and was frequently used in game titles for Sony's PlayStation 2, Nintendo's GameCube and Wii as an alternative to digital surround formats such as Dolby Digital, or DTS."
  
 This mode presumably does the encoding I'm talking about in real-time so that a proper decoder will extract the surround channels in those games.
  
 It's like setting Dolby Digital or DTS on other modern consoles so a decoder for those formats can pull the sounds apart at the other end with some semblance of directionality intact, instead of all smashed together into some one-dimensional stereo signal where all you get is left and right.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> http://smile.amazon.com/Cosmos-Velvet-Replacement-Cushion-Headphones/dp/B00KLPRQMO
> 
> Cheap, but may work well for you.




Thanks for this. Though I may end up getting the alcantaras for the M220, these seem like a great option should I decide not to invest much in them when they arrive.

I have a feeling it's going to make a great budget gamer with the right pads and my AKG adapter for the boompro.


----------



## TheDson

Sup Guys? How do you find *superlux hd668b *for gaming, practically for CS:GO (nice positioning needed). Is it good itself, do I need some extra sound card or virtual surround device? I found it pretty inresting cuz it is huge what is good for my ears, cuz some headphones hurt a lot and my headphone which I use - Panasonic RP-HTF295 was hurting for a while, but then I adjusted to it.
  
And what do you think about *Gemini-HRS1000? **Takstar Monitor Hi-fi Headphone HI 2050?*
  
 Can you please also say if you can this: can I adjust to  Aurora Live (if superlux is not fine) cuz they seem to be pretty narrow?
  
 Thank you for your feedback.


----------



## TheDson

Update: Choosing between Creative Aurvana Live!, Gemini-HRS1000 or Sennheiser 558.


----------



## dakanao

thedson said:


> Update: Choosing between Creative Aurvana Live! or Gemini-HRS1000


 
 Creative Aurvana Live is pretty good for competitive gaming, you can hear all the enemies quite easily if they don't have Ninja pro or dead silence.
  
 But the CAL really has beautiful mids and highs with zero harshness. I found the mids and highs to be better than some 300 euro headphones like the Focal Spirit Pro and NAD Viso HP50.
  
 I also think their mids and highs sound better than those of the first Sennheiser Momentum over ear.
  
 The only downside to the CAL is that the bass is a bit boomy/loose.
  
 But for the price they're exceptional compared to the competition.


----------



## rudyae86

dakanao said:


> Creative Aurvana Live is pretty good for competitive gaming, you can hear all the enemies quite easily if they don't have Ninja pro or dead silence.
> 
> But the CAL really has beautiful mids and highs with zero harshness. I found the mids and highs to be better than some 300 euro headphones like the Focal Spirit Pro and NAD Viso HP50.
> 
> ...




Well the Momentum and CAL are 2 different sound signatures, you can't really compare them too much. Momentum sounds to me more of a neutral type of headphone.


----------



## dakanao

rudyae86 said:


> Well the Momentum and CAL are 2 different sound signatures, you can't really compare them too much. Momentum sounds to me more of a neutral type of headphone.


 
 To me, the CAL sounds like a Sennheiser Momentum with more treble and more, but boomier/looser bass.


----------



## Sam21

NamelssPFG, This is how I always thought mixamp works:
  
  
 (1) Game outputs 5.1 channels PCM.
 (2) Console encodes the 5.1 PCM into Dolby Digital and outputs it through optical out to Mixamp's optical in.
 (3) Mixamp decodes the Dolby Digital Signal and turns it back into 5.1 Channel PCM.
 (4) *Dolby Pro Logic IIx turns the 5.1 PCM into 7.1 PCM.*
 (5) 7.1 PCM is turned into 2-channels surround PCM by Dolby Headphone.
 (6) DAC turns the 2 channels surround PCM into an Analogue signal.
 (7) Analogue signal is outputted to the headphone out stereo port.


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> NamelssPFG, This is how I always thought mixamp works:
> 
> 
> (1) Game outputs 5.1 channels PCM.
> ...


 
 Game renders 7.1 channels PCM. Console's sound chip embeds two side channels into the remaining four (not counting the center channel or sub) using Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Console encodes resulting 5.1 PCM into Dolby Digital and then outputs it through optical. Mixamp decodes Dolby Digital into 5.1 PCM. Mixamp recovers two embedded channels into 7.1 PCM. The rest is how You wrote it.


----------



## rudyae86

dakanao said:


> To me, the CAL sounds like a Sennheiser Momentum with more treble and more, but boomier/looser bass.


 
 Yes, the boomier bass is more evident on the CAL. The Momentum's bass is a bit boomy depending on the song. Some songs, the bass seems a bit more punchy while some songs its bass is a bit tamed and sharp, no punch to it. Then again, it might be the source since I use them with my phone with Spotify on high quality audio setting.


----------



## dakanao

rudyae86 said:


> Yes, the boomier bass is more evident on the CAL. The Momentum's bass is a bit boomy depending on the song. Some songs, the bass seems a bit more punchy while some songs its bass is a bit tamed and sharp, no punch to it. Then again, it might be the source since I use them with my phone with Spotify on high quality audio setting.


 
 I could live with the Momentums bass, since it's emphasis is right where I like it. If they would have more treble/clarity, they would be my ideal headphone.
  
 From what I've read, the Momentum 2 is probably just that.


----------



## rudyae86

dakanao said:


> I could live with the Momentums bass, since it's emphasis is right where I like it. If they would have more treble/clarity, they would be my ideal headphone.
> 
> From what I've read, the Momentum 2 is probably just that.


 
 From what I read, its a tad bit less. But I think thats the BT Wireless version though.


----------



## playmate

I modded my CAL by removing the foam in front of the driver and removing the back plates, thus making them very open. The bass takes a great hit, but it makes them superb for competitive gaming to my ears.


----------



## dakanao

playmate said:


> I modded my CAL by removing the foam in front of the driver and removing the back plates, thus making them very open. The bass takes a great hit, but it makes them superb for competitive gaming to my ears.


 
 Do you mean by the foam the foam that is in the earpads?
  
 And how did you remove the back plates?


----------



## playmate

dakanao said:


> Do you mean by the foam the foam that is in the earpads?
> 
> And how did you remove the back plates?




When you remove the earpads the drivers are exposed. But there is a ring of foam around the driver. If you remove it, it will cut down the bass A LOT. I cut it out in a whole piece, so I can put the foam ring in again. 

The back is just secured with two screws which are found inside the cups, behind the drivers. You need to look at some pictures or just open them up to get what's going on. I can't provide any pictures as I'm on vacation


----------



## LINKUZZZ

I purchased the the *Philips Fidelio X2/27 Headpones* and the *V-MODA BoomPro Gaming Mic*, and they will be shipped tomorrow. Deciding that was easy as these products come highly recommended.
  
 Now I just need to complete my sound setup with a better source as onboard sound isn't going to cut it.
  
 Sound Blaster X7 LE is highest on my list, but both the Sound Blaster ZxR and the Asus Essence STX 2 7.1 have been recommended to me. I just need some better reasons why I should go with one option over the other. The main reason I haven't gotten the Sound Blaster X7 LE yet is because its not available in Canada, however the normal edition is at MemoryDepot.com. Buying the Sound Blaster X7 LE seems like the safe option as the power brick comes much cheaper with it. If I need it later I would be paying a lot more if I got the normal version. Any opinions.


----------



## rudyae86

playmate said:


> When you remove the earpads the drivers are exposed. But there is a ring of foam around the driver. If you remove it, it will cut down the bass A LOT. I cut it out in a whole piece, so I can put the foam ring in again.
> 
> The back is just secured with two screws which are found inside the cups, behind the drivers. You need to look at some pictures or just open them up to get what's going on. I can't provide any pictures as I'm on vacation


 
 Hmmmmm interesting.
  
 I mean its pretty obvious it will lose alot of its low end but what about the highs and the mids? Im sure the mids also get affected by this mod.


----------



## TheDson

Up: Thanks everyone, I decided in favor of 558


----------



## Evshrug

Creative isn't the only brand where you can get an apt power supply upgrade.

ZxR is basically on the same sound quality level as the X7, though the soundcard is really only able to process surround for PC, it has a higher output impedance (important for IEMs and some headphones), and it doesn't have Bluetooth and speaker taps (or mobile app, etc).

Power supply only matters for Powered speakers, not headphones. And even then, some speakers (like Creative's, I believe) sound pretty good with the stock X7's power supply


----------



## raif89

So after nearly 2 years with my Fidelio X1, it's time for me to get a second set. I've ran into an issue with them where the audio jack seems to be faulty (sometimes can't hear from the left) and want to get a backup as I was told it may take nearly a month or more to get my headphones back.
  
 As strange as it may be, I was looking into the X2 for an upgrade as I just love the X1 and how it translates from gaming to movies and music. Is there anything like the X1 in how it just is an all around beast and super comfortable? Is the X2 just the X1 but better as it seems from the review? I'm pretty much looking for something like the X1, just better. If it isn't, I may just go buy another X1 as it was pretty much perfect for me. I wouldn't even be considering a second headset if I didn't have to wait so long to get mine back. 
  
 I did see the review for the K712 and how it was recommended above the X1. Is that also similar to the X1? How would it compare to the X2? I don't have the option to go listen to or try on headphones where I live (which sucks). The band look less comfortable (no padding?) and I'm curious as to the bass/ear fatigue. Both are very important to me as I wasn't able to wear headphones for very long until I got the X1 which I can wear for hours because very little ear fatigue (had surgery on my eardrums when I was very young). I'm looking for a fun headphone, that has good sound in all areas (an all around-er if you will) that is also super comfy. I have a smallish head with small ears so it does need to fit well. I am running these from my computer with an Asus Xonas STX (don't kill me please! very difficult to get anything better desktop wise here)
  
 Would you recommend the LK712 over the X2 for me if I was totally in love with the X1 sound/feel (and can totally just go buy another if it wasn't for that damn jack issue)?


----------



## LINKUZZZ

Well on here its been noted that the X2's are better than the X1's, and the AKG K712 Pros are just a bit better than the X2's. However the X1 and X2 work better with mics because of the detachable cable.


----------



## Alfisti89

raif89 said:


> So after nearly 2 years with my Fidelio X1, it's time for me to get a second set. I've ran into an issue with them where the audio jack seems to be faulty (sometimes can't hear from the left) and want to get a backup as I was told it may take nearly a month or more to get my headphones back.
> 
> As strange as it may be, I was looking into the X2 for an upgrade as I just love the X1 and how it translates from gaming to movies and music. Is there anything like the X1 in how it just is an all around beast and super comfortable? Is the X2 just the X1 but better as it seems from the review? I'm pretty much looking for something like the X1, just better. If it isn't, I may just go buy another X1 as it was pretty much perfect for me. I wouldn't even be considering a second headset if I didn't have to wait so long to get mine back.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I think that the build quality and comfort is supreme on the X2s compared to K712/702/701 line. 
  
 The issue like yours on the X1's should be a easy fix for a DIYer,  check all the solder points and perhaps change the cable..


----------



## avens

I'm looking for closed headphones that have an in-built volume control. Somehow it seems like there is none that gets favorable reviews, whether for music or for gaming.
  
 Is that too much to ask, really? The MMX 300 doesn't have one (would have been perfect with it), the DT 770 M is usually destroyed in reviews (the extra isolation ruined the EQ) and lets face it the high end of Sennheiser's gaming line still uses drivers that were already mediocre 10 years ago, most with really poor isolation as well.
  
 My idea is getting one, then attach a mic to it (modmic 4.0 in my case) and use it for gaming in general, including retro gaming (analog). Also could be one that has the mic included, but in any case it has to include volume control in the actual cable (no USB DAC).
  
 The price range could be from $100 to $400 (maybe a bit more tho) and hopefully that it doesn't require an amp. After all the idea is getting something nice and with good "passive" isolation (so starting from $100), that uses a 3.5mm cable (analog) and the volume control on the cable makes them compatible with every old console and every system out there.
  
 Sounds complicated but in the end I just want a good closed headphone (with good isolation) that comes with analog volume control, so that it doesn't require an accessory to work or to "drive" them. A mic would be nice but it's not needed.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AxelCloris

avens said:


> I'm looking for closed headphones that have an in-built volume control. Somehow it seems like there is none that gets favorable reviews, whether for music or for gaming.
> 
> Is that too much to ask, really? The MMX 300 doesn't have one (would have been perfect with it), the DT 770 M is usually destroyed in reviews (the extra isolation ruined the EQ) and lets face it the high end of Sennheiser's gaming line still uses drivers that were already mediocre 10 years ago.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Could you use a different mic attachment? The BoomPro mic cable has in-line volume control and would work with several closed headphones that have detachable cables.
  
 If you're set on the Modmic then I think you're in for a difficult hunt.


----------



## avens

axelcloris said:


> Could you use a different mic attachment? The BoomPro mic cable has in-line volume control and would work with several closed headphones that have detachable cables.
> 
> If you're set on the Modmic then I think you're in for a difficult hunt.


 
  
  
 I see. I'll look into those.
  
 Also I was thinking about what to do with consoles if I were to plug the headphones in without using a USB DAC. For example plugging the headphones to a NES through RCA wouldn't be optimal anyway (really lousy amplification), and even in the PS3's case (through a cable salad) I would be limited by the lack of an in-built volume control slider. Since I have next to zero experience on that as I only have a Fiio E09K + E17 combo using it through USB with the PC (so digital use only), I have a noob question: Can I connect something through RCA cables (analog) to a dedicated amp (no dac) and get an amplified analog signal to the headphones, plus being able to use the volume knob of the amp?


----------



## AxelCloris

avens said:


> I see. I'll look into those.
> 
> Also I was thinking about what to do with consoles if I were to plug the headphones in without using a USB DAC. For example plugging the headphones to a NES through RCA wouldn't be optimal anyway (really lousy amplification), and even in the PS3's case (through a cable salad) I would be limited by the lack of an in-built volume control slider. Since I have next to zero experience on that as I only have a Fiio E09K + E17 combo using it through USB with the PC (so digital use only), I have a noob question: Can I connect something through RCA cables (analog) to a dedicated amp (no dac) and get an amplified analog signal to the headphones, plus being able to use the volume knob of the amp?


 
  
 You're looking to connect RCA cables from the console to an amp like the E09K and then use that amp to control the volume? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to do that as long as you can get signal from the console to the amp. If you're able to connect stereo RCAs from an NES to an amp you should be able to freely adjust the volume that way.


----------



## avens

ok I just bought the BoomPro mic.
  
 Now I'm looking for the actual closed headphone to use with them, so that it uses a 3.5mm on both sides (or that comes with the volume slider thingy). Which would you recommend? Once again thanks for your time.


----------



## AxelCloris

avens said:


> ok I just bought the BoomPro mic.
> 
> Now I'm looking for the actual closed headphone to use with them, so that it uses a 3.5mm on both sides (or that comes with the volume slider thingy). Which would you recommend? Once again thanks for your time.


 
  
 Depends on what you're looking for in a closed headphone. MLE has a sizable list of BoomPro compatible headphones that he's reviewed on the first page, with the exception of the Focals. Adding to his list of compatible headphones, you could also look into the KRK KNS8400, it's a nice closed back as well.


----------



## jincuteguy

change is good said:


> Thanks for this. Though I may end up getting the alcantaras for the M220, these seem like a great option should I decide not to invest much in them when they arrive.
> 
> I have a feeling it's going to make a great budget gamer with the right pads and my AKG adapter for the boompro.


 
 What alcantaras are u talking about? is it earpad?


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Game renders 7.1 channels PCM. Console's sound chip embeds two side channels into the remaining four (not counting the center channel or sub) using Dolby Pro Logic IIx. Console encodes resulting 5.1 PCM into Dolby Digital and then outputs it through optical. Mixamp decodes Dolby Digital into 5.1 PCM. Mixamp recovers two embedded channels into 7.1 PCM. The rest is how You wrote it.


 
 Can the Creative X7 do the same as the MixAmp do?


----------



## raif89

linkuzzz said:


> Well on here its been noted that the X2's are better than the X1's, and the AKG K712 Pros are just a bit better than the X2's. However the X1 and X2 work better with mics because of the detachable cable.


 
  
  


alfisti89 said:


> I think that the build quality and comfort is supreme on the X2s compared to K712/702/701 line.
> 
> The issue like yours on the X1's should be a easy fix for a DIYer,  check all the solder points and perhaps change the cable..


 
  
 I wish I had a soldering iron and some knowledge on how to open them and not fear to break them further, otherwise I would fix them myself.
  
 I do own a Modmic (another supremely well done purchase due to this thread, along with the X1) so the X2 I guess would be the choice. The question is the sound signature. I'm a relative headphone noob, the first headset I ever owned were these X1's and TBH am perfectly happy with it. If the X2 fixes the issues and sounds the same (or close enough that a noob like me won't really notice) then it looks like I'll go get an X2.


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> What alcantaras are u talking about? is it earpad?


 
  
 Shure's alcantara pads.
  
 http://smile.amazon.com/Shure-HPAEC1540-Replacement-Alcantara-Headphones/dp/B00HXAV0UY/


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Can the Creative X7 do the same as the MixAmp do?


 
 X7 doesn't do Dolby ProLogic. But the truth is it doesn't actually matter, the two additional channels do not make the virtual surround derived from the Dolby Digital signal more accurate (no matter what Astro reps will tell You). Additional channels are meant for receivers with 7.1 output with no HDMI.


----------



## lenroot77

Mass drop has the X7 LE for 399.00 after 25 purchases.


----------



## Yethal

You guys are willing to go a reaaally long way for that 1 ohm lower impedance.


----------



## bombadilio

yethal said:


> I've been digging into Sound Blaster X7 chat functionality a little bit more. The recent software update for the Soundblaster X7 added support for a USB Creative BT-W2 bluetooth transmitter which most probably means that the two devices can now be paired and used together. Now get this:
> On the support page for the transmitter there is an article explaining how to connect the device to the Playstation 4.
> 
> http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=126731
> ...


 
 I am curious on this device...
  
 I have the X7 LE and am trying to optimize it.
  
  My current setup is:
  
 Computer USB ---> X7 LE---> Optical IN ---> TV Samsung JS9500 One Connect Box
  
 X7 LE---> Optical Out ---> Bose Cinemate 130 Soundbar
  
 Would this device make it more seamless? I can not for the life of me get the X7 to function right in windows. Sound is controlled through the apps vs the X7, meanwhile on bluetooth my phone can control it.


----------



## Yethal

bombadilio said:


> I am curious on this device...
> 
> I have the X7 LE and am trying to optimize it.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't know what are You trying to achieve here. The BT-W2 is a USB Bluetooth transmitter to pair the X7 with. You can read my (short) review of this dongle here:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/675#post_11775391
  
 As for the X7 itself, what exactly is Your problem with the Control Panel? Do You have problem switching between inputs/outputs?


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Shure's alcantara pads.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Shure-HPAEC1540-Replacement-Alcantara-Headphones/dp/B00HXAV0UY/




Just looking at them makes me want a pair for the M220. I might open a classified to see if anyone would like to sell me their spare set from the 1540. I'm still upset I ended up selling both of mine.


----------



## bombadilio

yethal said:


> I don't know what are You trying to achieve here. The BT-W2 is a USB Bluetooth transmitter to pair the X7 with. You can read my (short) review of this dongle here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/675#post_11775391
> 
> As for the X7 itself, what exactly is Your problem with the Control Panel? Do You have problem switching between inputs/outputs?


 
 Thanks!
  
 My main problem is that in windows when I am connected via USB I have difficulty controlling the volume via applications. So far I have the option of SPDIF Out and Speakers.
  
 When it is set as default to Speakers (all controlled by Sound Blaster X7) it will only control the volume via the speaker itself.  When I have it set to SPDIF OUT it sometimes will or sometimes wont. IT seems there are 2 defaults (Default Communication Device, and Default Device).
  
 Is the dongle a better option than utilizing the USB cord?


----------



## conquerator2

Speaking of problems, I can't get the X7 to output reliably through the SPDIF reliably. Yesterday it took me 30 minutes of off/on, driver reinstalling disconnecting and reconnecting and messing in Windows to get it to finally lock... This auto switching/detecting is downright broken... I want a way to switch the outputs manually please...


----------



## lenroot77

I'm selling my Fidelio x1's for 140.00 shipped. They are in pristine condition with box and all accessories. Pm me for my eBay listing.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> I'm selling my Fidelio x1's for 140.00 shipped. They are in pristine condition with box and all accessories. Pm me for my eBay listing.


 
  
 So what headphone are you using now for your gaming needs?


----------



## lenroot77

Well I've been enjoying your he-400i's, but last night I put the k7xx's to use.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Well I've been enjoying your he-400i's, but last night I put the k7xx's to use.


 
  
 Glad to see they're both in circulation. There are aspects to each that can beat out the other. And I believe that they're officially your HE-400i now.


----------



## lenroot77

They both have their strengths, I forgot how open the akgs are. I think I'll have them on for iron banner this week.


----------



## Yethal

bombadilio said:


> Thanks!
> 
> My main problem is that in windows when I am connected via USB I have difficulty controlling the volume via applications. So far I have the option of SPDIF Out and Speakers.
> 
> ...


 
 I see where the problem lies. The Speakers output controls all outputs (both speakers and headphones, You can switch between the two in the control panel) as well as Line Out. Tr reinstalling the driver/application because I had literally zero problems with what You're describing.
  
 The dongle is a good idea only when: The X7 is placed really far away from the PC, when You want Chat support for the PS4 and when You want/need to use the X7 with two PC at once. In all other cases it's more viable to use regular USB connection.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> They both have their strengths, I forgot how open the akgs are. I think I'll have them on for iron banner this week.


 
  
 Yeah, the K7xx definitely has the edge on soundstage. There are only 3 planars that had really impressed me with their soundstage: HE1000, Ether, and Alpha Dog.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, it's amazing how open the AKGs are, and their elite soundstage, especially since they're a semi-closed design! I found them to not isolate me from sounds in my house, but they leak less than my other open headphones and aren't attenuated by objects close to the earcups at all.
Meanwhile, the older HE400 model I got to demo was the most open design I've ever heard. The leak was basically as strong as what was directed at my ears, but even more fascinating was how a hand or something within a foot of the earcups would reflect and change how I heard the sound. Not necessarily a bad thing, but interesting nonetheless!!


----------



## kayan

lenroot77 said:


> They both have their strengths, I forgot how open the akgs are. I think I'll have them on for iron banner this week.


 

 Oooh, Iron Banner started?!? I need to get on there and get my hidden ghost!


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Yeah, it's amazing how open the AKGs are, and their elite soundstage, especially since they're a semi-closed design! I found them to not isolate me from sounds in my house, but they leak less than my other open headphones and aren't attenuated by objects close to the earcups at all.
> Meanwhile, the older HE400 model I got to demo was the most open design I've ever heard. The leak was basically as strong as what was directed at my ears, but even more fascinating was how a hand or something within a foot of the earcups would reflect and change how I heard the sound. Not necessarily a bad thing, but interesting nonetheless!!


 
 you should listen to the SHP9500, those things leak out alot of sound compared to my other headphones. And I mean alot lol
  
 And yes, just by covering the ear cups with your hands, the sound would change. For the SHP9500, the change that was most noticeable was the bass, had more punch to it and a bit deeper. I wonder what would happen if I were to mod the headphones and cover it up with something. What to use and how to do it is the real question though....hmm.
  
 SHP9500 are so dirt cheap right now that it should probably be the next T50rp


----------



## CarlitoSyrichta

Props to mad last for this great thread! Quick question guys, anyone here using the sennheiser game one headset with an Xbox one or the ps4?


----------



## NamelessPFG

avens said:


> I'm looking for closed headphones that have an in-built volume control. Somehow it seems like there is none that gets favorable reviews, whether for music or for gaming.
> 
> Is that too much to ask, really? The MMX 300 doesn't have one (would have been perfect with it), the DT 770 M is usually destroyed in reviews (the extra isolation ruined the EQ) and lets face it the high end of Sennheiser's gaming line still uses drivers that were already mediocre 10 years ago, most with really poor isolation as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I believe the reason that built-in volume controls are something of a rarity is that more often than not, they're usually a little potentiometer/rheostat that just adds more resistance to the signal to attenuate it more, and they tend to be cheap, crappy little ones with balance issues. You're usually better off adjusting the volume at the source most of the time.
  
 But of course, going through system settings to get to the volume controls (or reaching for the amp's volume knob) can be a total pain, so I understand why you'd want it built-in.
  
 Perhaps if I could find a good, compact pot that'll keep the channels balanced nicely throughout its entire range, I could consider adding one to my MMX 300 recabling project whenever I get around to it.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> ...And yes, just by covering the ear cups with your hands, the sound would change. For the SHP9500, the change that was most noticeable was the bass, had more punch to it and a bit deeper. I wonder what would happen if I were to mod the headphones and cover it up with something. What to use and how to do it is the real question though....hmm.
> 
> SHP9500 are so dirt cheap right now that it should probably be the next T50rp



Well, first of all the T50RP was a modder's choice base because the drivers could way outperform the earcup shells, and planar magnetic drivers were kind of a neato semi-rare thing and had caché.

Idk how much more potential SQ could be squeezed from the SPH9500 (most mods I've heard of so far about limiting treble rather than uncovering and releasing their potential). Also, while many headphones are affected by putting your hands over the cups or pressing the drivers closer... That's still mild compared to the HE-400. Is it possible to use the mobile IMG uploaded on here to upload 10 seconds of video? I'm really not exaggerating, put your hands past your shoulders or have someone sit next to you an it'll change the sound!


----------



## Sam21

PC360 has a volume control on the cup.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Well, first of all the T50RP was a modder's choice base because the drivers could way outperform the earcup shells, and planar magnetic drivers were kind of a neato semi-rare thing and had caché.
> 
> Idk how much more potential SQ could be squeezed from the SPH9500 (most mods I've heard of so far about limiting treble rather than uncovering and releasing their potential). Also, while many headphones are affected by putting your hands over the cups or pressing the drivers closer... That's still mild compared to the HE-400. Is it possible to use the mobile IMG uploaded on here to upload 10 seconds of video? I'm really not exaggerating, put your hands past your shoulders or have someone sit next to you an it'll change the sound!


 
 hmmm I am intrigued by this.
  
 Its obvious that acoustics play a big part in a headphones sound, so the design of the headphones internals contributes to its sound. Therefore, an open back headphone should get its sound changed by just putting your hand over the ear cups but you saying that you can just put your hands at shoulder length and its changes sound? I never tried an HE 400 but that means that thing leaks alot of sound then. Probably is meant for a quite room with almost no noise but the headphone itself.
  
 Makes me want to buy a pair of HE400 or HE400i......
  
 Stop EV....
  
 dont make me spend more money lol
  
 But yeah, you are right of the T50RP. Cant really compare to the SHP9500. The reason I mentioned this is because I feel that the SHP9500 was also meant to be a closed back as well, kind of like the Audio Technica A700x and AD700x. Two similar designs, two slightly different sounds, with a reduced soundstage of course.

 But of course, the drivers that the T50RP have are much better.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Any open-back headphone sounds noticeably different when you cover the earcups, but it probably affects planar drivers more (both electromagnetic and electrostatic varieties) because of their even dipole dispersion, with the back wave being reflected back by your hand obstructing the rear. It's one of the reasons why placement relative to the back wall is so critical with planar/electrostatic loudspeakers, according to those who use them, and I'd imagine smaller headphone drivers to be no different.
  
 Even so, there's little details to the housing designs that could affect even open-back headphones, most notably the bass port mods on SR-007 variants. I can only imagine what kind of detail and engineering has to go into creating closed-back headphones and their earcups, between the material of the cups (note all the fancier sets with wooden cups as a selling point), the placement of any bass ports, so on and so forth. All the T50RP driver-derived headphones are proof enough of that.
  
 Oh, and about spending more money? Well, there's a reason we greet people with "sorry about your wallet" here. I even had to take a break for a long while just to keep my curiosity from getting the better of me, and it still does, considering I bought the K7XX and all. Gotta thin down my headphone collection once my latest score arrives and I verify it as working...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I gotta say, even with the cups covered, the X2 sounds great. I bet if someone could have some custom cup covers for it to make them closed, they'd still be quite viable.


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone tried the new Turtle Beach Elite 800X with DTS Headphone: X? I heard it sounds way better than SBX and Dolby headphone.  So im wondering if anyone has it and can compare to SBX from Creative X7?


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone tried the new Turtle Beach Elite 800X with DTS Headphone: X? I heard it sounds way better than SBX and Dolby headphone.  So im wondering if anyone has it and can compare to SBX from Creative X7?




Don't ever believe hyperbole like that.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Don't ever believe hyperbole like that.


 
 Yes I Know but did anyone actually try out the DTS Headphone X And compare it to SBX? 
 You don't know if you haven't tried it right?


----------



## Evshrug

There's a few free DTS headphone X apps for iPhone (and presumably Android) that are semi-backed by Hanz Zimmerman, so it's easy to hear DTS headphone X. It's a pretty good home theater algorithm, and better than Dolby Headphone because it has less reverb and can incorporate height cues... But it still is limited to piping everything through 9.1 speaker channels rather than being able to freely position cues anywhere 3D around you in a sphere. It would still be an advancement over Dolby. I have a demo video of DTS Headphone X (pretty basic one) in my "journal" thread linked in my signature.

Mad has heard DTS headphone X. There just aren't any discrete processors made with it yet, the announced Turtle Beach TAC processor (basically a mixamp with DTS H X) has wallowed in development limbo for a year or more (I suspect litigation and possibly patents).

The TB Elite 800X had a lot of potential on paper, but on audition it is a bit hissy and not very detailed, not competitive with $200 hifi headphones for detail, comfort, and refinement. Hopefully they get back to making the TAC.


----------



## rudyae86

jincuteguy said:


> Yes I Know but did anyone actually try out the DTS Headphone X And compare it to SBX?
> You don't know if you haven't tried it right?


 
 Edit: Didnt know Evs and MLE have tried it lol
  
 As for me, I dont ever want to get near a Turtle Beach headset ever again...ever.
  
 If it were Astro, then we are talking a bit more seriously.
  
 What Im really more anxious about is how Dolby Atmos will be implemented in Star Wars Battlefront for PC.
  
 Dolby Atmos is still relatively new but hopefully it will make it to us Headphone users.
  
 As for DTS Headphone X, if their tech was really far superior than Dolby or SBX, why has it not been adopted by other companies? Makes you wonder sometimes how marketing works. Now I have not listened to it and Im sure it is good and maybe better but its still limited to what it can do.
  
 This is pretty normal though since DTS and Dolby have always been competition on each other for years, so whenever you see one of them say they are "BETTER" than the others, thats just marketing. Taste in sound is subjective and so are DSPs
  
 I like SBX more than Dolby though Im using an Asus Xonar DG for PC gaming for now. Some like the reverb, I kind of dont but dont mind it but do love how the rear cues are more noticeable than on SBX. But SBX is still above my favorite overall.
  
 With that said, DTS may be good or better but just like everything else, it will have its flaws. I believe an Onkyo A/V receiver has DTS X as well, not sure what model since I saw it at Best Buy the other day. Seems like they are trying to push it but its not really catching on compared to Dolby Atmos, which is getting more attention.


----------



## Evshrug

My local GameStop let me demo one. It wasn't earth-shattering, I mean it was in-line with competition from Astro and sacrifices have to be made for wireless and all that, but it really didn't make me pull out the wallet. The guys and gals at the store (who know me pretty well) made me feel like a bit of a snob and maintain that Astros are the best headphones... But I held my ground, and the "Astros are best" guy actually seemed interested when I offered that I'd let them demo a headphone or two of mine sometime.

Today I didn't bring any headphones, but I had missed the post office hours and showed them my ear impressions I had made for my CIEMs. It was cool to introduce them to the idea of a new type of headphone they hadn't heard of. Little do they know... I've got a Stax setup at home...

Rudy,
Dolby Atmos is a speaker surround DSP, I haven't heard of a headphone version yet. Technically it can still be outdone by the positional algorithms that can make a sound originate from any coordinate like what CMSS-3D and SBX can do (via OpenAL), but no Atmos headphone DSP exists (afaik) so I can't tell if subjectively Atmost might have a more pleasing tone or not.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> My local GameStop let me demo one. It wasn't earth-shattering, I mean it was in-line with competition from Astro and sacrifices have to be made for wireless and all that, but it really didn't make me pull out the wallet. The guys and gals at the store (who know me pretty well) made me feel like a bit of a snob and maintain that Astros are the best headphones... But I held my ground, and the "Astros are best" guy actually seemed interested when I offered that I'd let them demo a headphone or two of mine sometime.
> 
> Today I didn't bring any headphones, but I had missed the post office hours and showed them my ear impressions I had made for my CIEMs. It was cool to introduce them to the idea of a new type of headphone they hadn't heard of. Little do they know... I've got a Stax setup at home...
> 
> ...


 
 lol yeah, my coworkers sometimes seemed amaze whenever they see me wearing my ES18S one day and then the next day I have my Momentum Over ears, since all they see are beats, BEATs! BEATS!
  They question why I have so many headphones and that I should stick with Beats....... I just turn around and leave usually when that happens lol.
  
 Dolby Atmos, yes I know its a Speaker Surround DSP but there are already phones and tablets that have I guess Dolby Atmos via software? Im not sure, Im still investigating how this is happening in phones and tablets. From what I know, Dolby Atmos on phones and tablets, makes their little speakers have a slightly wider soundstage and make it seem like you are surrounded by a speaker set up. Now this isnt new and isnt the first time Dolby makes software that mimics a virtual surround set up while using to rear speakers only.
  
 But ever since EA said that Star Wars Battlefront will be the first game to utilize Dolby Atmos on PC only.....Im trying to understand, how the heck are they planning to implement this?
  
 Could it be that it will be a built in DSP just like BF4 when you set your settings to Headphone/Surround?
  
 we are only 3.5 months away from release of SWBF and the alpha testers are already playing but cant disclose anything right now...though I have not really been paying attention since Im trying to keep my hype and expectations low in case EA messes up SWBF.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I posted this a while but but there is Atmos mobile technology that I would hope to be incorporated into 
say a future Astro mixamp?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/mobile/dolby-atmos.html


----------



## AxelCloris

helvetica bold said:


> I posted this a while but but there is Atmos mobile technology that I would hope to be incorporated into
> say a future Astro mixamp?
> 
> http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/mobile/dolby-atmos.html


 
  
 Atmos you say...


----------



## SonnyA85

I have mic and headphones covered (antlion mod mic + AKG Q701's).
  
 I also have 5.8 mixamp (old wireless one) and a AUNE T1 USB DAC/AMP.
  
 The problem I have is that I want to use USB for voice chat as using the DS4 for voice chat with the mixamp causes huge issues with lag and the controls going haywire.
  
 basically if you plug into the ds4's 3.5mm connector the bluetooth chip changes classes from 100m to 10m. this results in a very poor bluetooth connection which can cause controller issues in congested areas or areas with a poor line of sight.
  
 I am having these issues.
  
 so I want to use my mod mic and my q701's but I don't want to connect to the DS4 in any way.
  
 i have tried the astro USB adapter into my mixamp but my mixamp only uses USB to power the receiver (tx and rx system) not for voice chat.
  
 should i sell my 5.8 mixamp and buy the latest wired one? i don't really need wireless anymore would prefer a wired setup tbh. is there anything else i should consider?
  
 i don't want anything connecting into the ds4 in my setup, just the console itself.
  
 thanks for anyone that can help.


----------



## Yethal

sonnya85 said:


> I have mic and headphones covered (antlion mod mic + AKG Q701's).
> 
> I also have 5.8 mixamp (old wireless one) and a AUNE T1 USB DAC/AMP.
> 
> ...


 
 There is an AUX port located at the back of the TX unit that is supposed to handle chat audio. Astro used to sell 3.5mm to USB converter cable that was used to provide chat audio for PS3/4. If You don't find that cable anywhere on ebay You can easily build Your own using a cheap USB soundcard, two 3.5mm cables and a 3.5mm Y-adapter.
  
 Basically, plug this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-USB-to-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter-External-Sound-Card-NEW-/281159276306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4176661712
  
 Then 2x this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Auxiliary-AUX-Male-to-Male-Stereo-Audio-Cable-Cord-for-PC-iPod-MP3-CAR-/161640399838?hash=item25a284c3de
  
 (brand and length is up to You)
  
 into this:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5mm-Stereo-1-Male-to-2-Dual-Female-Y-Splitter-Audio-Cable-Adapter-Earphone-/181411700043?hash=item2a3cfadd4b
  
 And plug it into the TX AUX port.
  
 Or use the original cable:
  
 http://gamestate.net.au/products/astro-usb-chat-cable


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> There's a few free DTS headphone X apps for iPhone (and presumably Android) that are semi-backed by *Hanz Zimmerman*, so it's easy to hear DTS headphone X. It's a pretty good home theater algorithm, and better than Dolby Headphone because it has less reverb and can incorporate height cues... But it still is limited to piping everything through 9.1 speaker channels rather than being able to freely position cues anywhere 3D around you in a sphere. It would still be an advancement over Dolby. I have a demo video of DTS Headphone X (pretty basic one) in my "journal" thread linked in my signature.
> 
> Mad has heard DTS headphone X. There just aren't any discrete processors made with it yet, the announced Turtle Beach TAC processor (basically a mixamp with DTS H X) has wallowed in development limbo for a year or more (I suspect litigation and possibly patents).
> 
> The TB Elite 800X had a lot of potential on paper, but on audition it is a bit hissy and not very detailed, not competitive with $200 hifi headphones for detail, comfort, and refinement. Hopefully they get back to making the TAC.


 
 You made me chuckle 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 Anyway, I actually got to try Headphone-X and the newest TB headset at E3. I was once again reminded why I switched from TB [my first 'serous' headphone] to good stereo headsets... While the technology might be good, the headset sounded like poop compared to anything I've tried in the last 3 years! No kidding.
  
 The TAC will also NOT be able to pass on the DH:X simply because TB does not want you to use any 3rd party headphones with it... While it uses an OK DAC chip [a single AK4396 like in Schiit Fulla], it will probably not be as great as it can be as you are stuck with the built-in amp as well -_-. I believe the device should retail for about 149$, but this is unconfirmed.
 So a promising device still, alas crippled for me. No thanks.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> You made me chuckle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Weird, the mockup pictures suggested that the TAC has regular pair of 3.5mm mic and headphone jacks.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> Weird, the mockup pictures suggested that the TAC has regular pair of 3.5mm mic and headphone jacks.




It does. Which means you're stuck with the built-in DAC and amp. It will not pass it on like the X7 though.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Weird, the mockup pictures suggested that the TAC has regular pair of 3.5mm mic and headphone jacks.


 
 What is TAC? I never heard anything like that from Turble Beach? I thought their Headphone X are only included within their whole Headset system like the Elite 800X and some lower ones.
  
 I don't see the TAC on their website?


----------



## SirMJC

Hoping you guys can give me some tips. I have a set of Sennheiser Game Zeros that I use for Xbox One and PS4, and while they're nice the sound isn't strong enough. I think the controllers can't provide enough power to them. If I'm looking to use them for sound and chat, should I stick with a Mixamp or can I still use a regular amp if I'm listening and chatting?


----------



## rudyae86

sirmjc said:


> Hoping you guys can give me some tips. I have a set of Sennheiser Game Zeros that I use for Xbox One and PS4, and while they're nice the sound isn't strong enough. I think the controllers can't provide enough power to them. If I'm looking to use them for sound and chat, should I stick with a Mixamp or can I still use a regular amp if I'm listening and chatting?


 
 you can attach an amp to the mix amp. The G4ME Zero (PC350 SE) has an impedance of 150ohm, so yeah, an amp is required to bring out the rest of its potential. I used an E11 and it worked well but you might want something with a bit more power, like a Magni or the O2 thats going on at massdrop. I have not used my PC350 SE in a while and dont really have another amp besides the Fiio E11 (O2 will be here in September).
  
 Hopefully someone can recommend another amp for your headset.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> What is TAC? I never heard anything like that from Turble Beach? I thought their Headphone X are only included within their whole Headset system like the Elite 800X and some lower ones.
> 
> I don't see the TAC on their website?


 
  

  
 It was supposed to be Turtle Beach's anwer to the Mixamp, just better in every way, and use DTS: Headphone X. However the product somehow vanished (MLE suspects patent/legal issues).


conquerator2 said:


> It does. Which means you're stuck with the built-in DAC and amp. It will not pass it on like the X7 though.


 
 Lack of line-out hasn't stopped us before. People with Mixamps, Recon 3D and the DSS double amp them everyday. as for the DAC, I heard a lot of good things about the Schiit Fulla which uses the same chip so it can't be that bad.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> It was supposed to be Turtle Beach's anwer to the Mixamp, just better in every way, and use DTS: Headphone X. However the product somehow vanished (MLE suspects patent/legal issues).
> Lack of line-out hasn't stopped us before. People with Mixamps, Recon 3D and the DSS double amp them everyday. as for the DAC, I heard a lot of good things about the Schiit Fulla which uses the same chip so it can't be that bad.


 
  
 ****, wished they would release the TAC  oh well.  Would be a lot better than the Mix amp with Dolby headphone.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> ****, wished they would release the TAC  oh well.  Would be a lot better than the Mix amp with Dolby headphone.


 
 It still uses optical, has all standard inputs/outputs of a Mixamp (Aux In, Stream Out, USB for chat), however it has two Ethernet ports on the back instead of 3.5mm daisy chain ports of the Mixamp.


----------



## conquerator2

Well,it was at E3 so I dunno... It is still coming at the end of the year/early next year according to TB.
Sure lack of a line out never stopped anybody, but I think it's a shame nonetheless.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> It still uses optical, has all standard inputs/outputs of a Mixamp (Aux In, Stream Out, USB for chat), however it has two Ethernet ports on the back instead of 3.5mm daisy chain ports of the Mixamp.




The Ethernet ports are to be used to connect multiple TACs.


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> The Ethernet ports are to be used to connect multiple TACs.


 
 Yup, like the daisy-chain ports on the Mixamp. But the ports on the Mixamp were much more versatile, they doubled as microphone out, I used them to have microphone output from the Mixamp to three different devices at once (my phone via Y-splitter, PS4, via USB, and PC via analog in)


----------



## SonnyA85

yethal said:


> There is an AUX port located at the back of the TX unit that is supposed to handle chat audio. Astro used to sell 3.5mm to USB converter cable that was used to provide chat audio for PS3/4. If You don't find that cable anywhere on ebay You can easily build Your own using a cheap USB soundcard, two 3.5mm cables and a 3.5mm Y-adapter.
> 
> Basically, plug this:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-USB-to-3-5mm-Audio-Adapter-External-Sound-Card-NEW-/281159276306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4176661712
> ...


 
 i have the original cable and it doesn't work
  
 i bought the cable direct from astro and they said there is no gaurantee it would work with my mixamp it's hit or miss.
  
 so any other suggestions?


----------



## Yethal

sonnya85 said:


> i have the original cable and it doesn't work
> 
> i bought the cable direct from astro and they said there is no gaurantee it would work with my mixamp it's hit or miss.
> 
> so any other suggestions?


 

 How exactly it doesn't work?
 What happens when You plug it into the TX unit and the console?
 What happens when You plug it into Your PC?
 What happens when You plug USB end into Your PC and the minijack into the TX unit or Your mobile phone (assuming You're using iOS/Android device)


----------



## SonnyA85

yethal said:


> How exactly it doesn't work?
> What happens when You plug it into the TX unit and the console?
> What happens when You plug it into Your PC?
> What happens when You plug USB end into Your PC and the minijack into the TX unit or Your mobile phone (assuming You're using iOS/Android device)


 
 the cable is fine.
  
 it's the mixamp it isn't compatible with that cable.
  
 it's hit or miss whether your 5.8 (wireless) mixamp works with the usb to 3.5mm astro cable.
  
 google it there is hundreds of people with the same issue, it only works with some 5.8 wireless mixamps I'm guessing there must be different versions or revisions of the 5.8 mixamp since it only works with some of them and not others. anyway my mixamp is one of the ones it won't work with.
  
 i haven't bothered trying with my pc or phone as i only need it to work with console and it won't work on my ps4. i used all the correct settings, etc too.
  
  
 basically i have a akg q701 and a mod mic, i want to connect the mic through usb not the ds4 what else do I need? i'm willing to sell my mixamp since it won't work with the usb cable and either buy a newer version (I have the very first mixamp) but i want to use the Q701's as well.


----------



## Yethal

sonnya85 said:


> the cable is fine.
> 
> it's the mixamp it isn't compatible with that cable.
> 
> ...


 
 Try connecting it to a PC and a mobile phone and see if playing music from the phone is visible in Windows audio settings.


----------



## jincuteguy

conquerator2 said:


> The Ethernet ports are to be used to connect multiple TACs.


 
 Can this TAC pass the 5.1 surround sound signals through the Optical? Like let say u want to hook up another Amp to the TAC, can u still get the surround sound coming out?
 Also, can the Astro MIXAmp Pro do that? Like pass the 5.1 dolby surround sound signal through the Optical inputu and then out Optical to another device?


----------



## rudyae86

jincuteguy said:


> Can this TAC pass the 5.1 surround sound signals through the Optical? Like let say u want to hook up another Amp to the TAC, can u still get the surround sound coming out?
> Also, can the Astro MIXAmp Pro do that? Like pass the 5.1 dolby surround sound signal through the Optical inputu and then out Optical to another device?




From the looks of it, it could be possible. We don't really know much about it's features, yet. This is technically a prototype, probably like a beta of the final production TAC.


----------



## jincuteguy

rudyae86 said:


> From the looks of it, it could be possible. We don't really know much about it's features, yet. This is technically a prototype, probably like a beta of the final production TAC.


 
 But can the MixAmp Pro do it?


----------



## conquerator2

jincuteguy said:


> Can this TAC pass the 5.1 surround sound signals through the Optical? Like let say u want to hook up another Amp to the TAC, can u still get the surround sound coming out?
> Also, can the Astro MIXAmp Pro do that? Like pass the 5.1 dolby surround sound signal through the Optical inputu and then out Optical to another device?


 
 No...
 Currently only the X7 can do that [and it requires a PC nearby].
 The TAC can only pass stereo. You can connect almost every device to another amplifier [by using an analogue out, which means double amping] but only the X7 can pass it on to another DAC.


----------



## rudyae86

conquerator2 said:


> No...
> Currently only the X7 can do that [and it requires a PC nearby].
> The TAC can only pass stereo. You can connect almost every device to another amplifier [by using an analogue out, which means double amping] but only the X7 can pass it on to another DAC.




I think x7 doesn't send sbx through optical out, just stereo. Not sure...


----------



## jincuteguy

rudyae86 said:


> I think x7 doesn't send sbx through optical out, just stereo. Not sure...


 
 Yea I don't think the X7 can do it either.


----------



## conquerator2

rudyae86 said:


> I think x7 doesn't send sbx through optical out, just stereo. Not sure...


 
  


jincuteguy said:


> Yea I don't think the X7 can do it either.


 
 There's a workaround. It requires to be connected to a PC [powered on], but it works


----------



## jincuteguy

conquerator2 said:


> There's a workaround. It requires to be connected to a PC [powered on], but it works


 
 So how does it work connect to a PC?


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> So how does it work connect to a PC?


 
 Creative X7 has a virtual input device called "What U Hear" which basically is what the device is outputting to the headphone/speaker out, You need to enable listening to this device in Windows and set S/PDIF out as a playback device.

  

 And voila! SBX surround passed on to the optical out.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Should we expect any audio news from Gamescon? I was really disappointed Astro didn't show off anything new.
 Turtle Beach did show of an entire new line of headphones. Maybe we'll finally see more info on the Turtle Beach TAC at Gamescon? 
 Basically there were no surprises at E3, Im hoping for something at Gamescon.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> You made me chuckle
> 
> Anyway, I actually got to try Headphone-X and the newest TB headset at E3. I was once again reminded why I switched from TB [my first 'serous' headphone] to good stereo headsets... While the technology might be good, the headset sounded like poop compared to anything I've tried in the last 3 years! No kidding.
> 
> ...




Glad to make you chuckle, but I blame autocorrect!

You COULD theoretically use 3rd party headphones with the mythical unicorn TAC, just only has analogue outputs.

I still wouldn't hold the TAC up to legendary status, for the same reason why we can't say it'd be better than sliced bread: it's not a product that consumers have heard or had in their homes yet. And while the DTS X Headphone potentially can have height cues, idk if console games will automatically have height cues anyway.


----------



## anticris81

review of a dss2
   Moderators delete the link if this breach of rules

​
​
​http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-211-670.html


----------



## Evshrug

If you are the review author, You could also just copy/paste all the text into a new review on Head-Fi. That's what I do.


----------



## anticris81

the review is not mine, so I do not copy / paste


----------



## Evshrug

Ok, a good idea not to then. Btw, for anyone else, it looks like the review was written in German, so hopefully you can read that or Google translate it.

A while back, we had a guy who liked his DSS 2 very much and figured out how to mod it to a line-out signal, but I haven't seen him in about a year. Basically, the DSS2 was very decent with low hiss and good technical qualities and DDL decoding, but instead of Dolby Headphone for surround re-processing it used a different headphone algorithm by Cirrus Logic, and you could adjust the angles of the speakers. Seemed promising but for $80 I never bought it for myself.


----------



## TumbleButt

I wonder how the MrSpeakers Ether fair in terms of competitive gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

tumblebutt said:


> I wonder how the MrSpeakers Ether fair in terms of competitive gaming.


 
  
 I'll know soon. Mine just shipped.


----------



## lenroot77

So I was reading about the Sony silver headset. Apparently this is just a wired version of the gold headset and is available for 23 dollars at the moment. Upon looking at the manual I see a USB dongle is included which allows the headset to be plugged into the ps4 and receive the 7.1 signal as well as access to the companion app. Wondering how and if thiswould work on other "easy to drive headsets/headphones". Could be a cheaper option for people looking to get into a surround sound gaming.

Has anyone tried this?

I'll probably just order one to play around with or give to a friend at the low cost of 23 bucks.


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> tumblebutt said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder how the MrSpeakers Ether fair in terms of competitive gaming.
> ...


 
  
 Methinks the force will be strong in that one. The phrase "God-mode-inducing gobs of clarity" comes to mind.


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> Methinks the force will be strong in that one. The phrase "God-mode-inducing gobs of clarity" comes to mind.


 
  
 I certainly hope it will be. I spent a LOT of time with the HE400i for gaming and I did some extensive gaming with the HE1000 as well. I expect the Ether will beat the HE400i but I'm not sure how it will fare against the HE1000 for gaming, that's the interesting comparison. That HE1000 soundstage, detail retrieval, and speed made it one hell of a gaming can.


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Methinks the force will be strong in that one. The phrase "God-mode-inducing gobs of clarity" comes to mind.
> ...


 
  
 That will be interesting. It's hard to compare headphones that are both so good, but also so broadly different on such a nuanced level. I'm interested to hear what you think.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> So I was reading about the Sony silver headset. Apparently this is just a wired version of the gold headset and is available for 23 dollars at the moment. Upon looking at the manual I see a USB dongle is included which allows the headset to be plugged into the ps4 and receive the 7.1 signal as well as access to the companion app. Wondering how and if thiswould work on other "easy to drive headsets/headphones". Could be a cheaper option for people looking to get into a surround sound gaming.
> 
> Has anyone tried this?
> 
> I'll probably just order one to play around with or give to a friend at the low cost of 23 bucks.


 
 Virtual Surround in all Sony headsets is just expanded stereo instead of proper surround. PS4 does not transmit surround signal via USB.


----------



## Sam21

you guys should consider this 9.1 wireless headphone, it decodes DD and DTS both....
  
 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-MDR-HW700DS-9-1ch-Wireless-Digital-Surround-Headphones-System-From-Japan-/171440767594?hash=item27eaaa826a


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> Virtual Surround in all Sony headsets is just expanded stereo instead of proper surround. PS4 does not transmit surround signal via USB.




Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Creative X7 has a virtual input device called "What U Hear" which basically is what the device is outputting to the headphone/speaker out, You need to enable listening to this device in Windows and set S/PDIF out as a playback device.
> 
> 
> 
> And voila! SBX surround passed on to the optical out.


 
 You sure that will work? I thought in order to pass surround sound signal through Optical, the device has to encode it cause the suround sound signal is very large and the Optical bandwidth doesn't have enough bandwidth for it.
 So unless the X7 can encode the signal, then I don't see how it can pass that through the Optical output?


----------



## TumbleButt

axelcloris said:


> I'll know soon. Mine just shipped.



 


Please let me know  I'm very curious. I'm about to pull the trigger on those (I mean, I want them just for listening to music, but I want to have the least amount of headphones for as many uses as possible)


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> You sure that will work? I thought in order to pass surround sound signal through Optical, the device has to encode it cause the suround sound signal is very large and the Optical bandwidth doesn't have enough bandwidth for it.
> So unless the X7 can encode the signal, then I don't see how it can pass that through the Optical output?


 
 PS4 encodes the 5.1 surround signal as Dolby Digital Live signal (5.1 over optical standard codec). X7 decodes it turns it into 2 channel binaural signal which then is passed onto What U Hear virtual device which is then output to the X7 S/PDIF out. Works like a charm.


sam21 said:


> you guys should consider this 9.1 wireless headphone, it decodes DD and DTS both....
> 
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sony-MDR-HW700DS-9-1ch-Wireless-Digital-Surround-Headphones-System-From-Japan-/171440767594?hash=item27eaaa826a


 
 Why the hell would we care about DTS and DD when the headphones accept 7.1 LPCM uncompressed signal?
 Also, can the base station be connected to any other device besides these headphones? If not then they kinda suck, being tied to one specific pair of headphones is never a good thing.


----------



## Sam21

yethal said:


> PS4 encodes the 5.1 surround signal as Dolby Digital Live signal (5.1 over optical standard codec). X7 decodes it turns it into 2 channel binaural signal which then is passed onto What U Hear virtual device which is then output to the X7 S/PDIF out. Works like a charm.
> Why the hell would we care about DTS and DD when the headphones accept 7.1 LPCM uncompressed signal?
> Also, can the base station be connected to any other device besides these headphones? If not then they kinda suck, being tied to one specific pair of headphones is never a good thing.


 
  
 I guess the headphones are better than turtle beach , astro or razer...
  
 I am with you on this, but somepeople think DTS is superior to DD, The algorithms are surely different, but the differences are negligible.
  
 some facts about this thing :
  
 1) It doesn't have Dolby headphone, it uses a Sony's own version of virtual surround.
 2) it uses Dolby pro logic IIz as opposed to DPLIIx ( mixamp uses DPLIIx)


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> I guess the headphones are better than turtle beach , astro or razer...
> 
> I am with you on this, but somepeople think DTS is superior to DD, The algorithms are surely different, but the differences are negligible.
> 
> ...


 
 So do you have this Sony headphones and the surround box? If so, is the surround sounds more convince than those Dolby headphone from Astro Mix amp and Creative X7 SBX?
 And from the look of it the surround sound box has HDMI inputs? WoW that's amazing, which basically you can pass surround sound signal straight from your PC to the box uncompressed.
 But I don't see that many ppl has seen or review this Sony headphones? 
  
 So can the PS4 and Xbox1 transfer surround signal via HDMI?


----------



## Sam21

jincuteguy said:


> So do you have this Sony headphones and the surround box? If so, is the surround sounds more convince than those Dolby headphone from Astro Mix amp and Creative X7 SBX?
> And from the look of it the surround sound box has HDMI inputs? WoW that's amazing, which basically you can pass surround sound signal straight from your PC to the box uncompressed.
> But I don't see that many ppl has seen or review this Sony headphones?
> 
> So can the PS4 and Xbox1 transfer surround signal via HDMI?


 
  
 I considered buying these, but the price put me off, if it was around 200 bucks I would have bought them. it has HDMI inputs, you can send the sound signals ( PCM or DD/DTS) along with the Video signal into the box, then the box decodes the sound and transmits it to the headphone and the video signal goes to the TV or whatever...in short, it works with consoles and PC. the decoder box accepts all sorts of audio signals, here are the specs: 
  
_Specifications:_ 
Driver unit: 50mm (CCAW voice coil adoption)
Reproduction bandwidth: 5-25,000Hz
Power supply: Built-in lithium ion chargeable battery
Battery life: 12 hours (With fully charged built-in lithium ion chargeable battery)
Weight: 320g, processor - 410g
Decoder: Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS-HD Master Audio, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS 96/24, DTS-ES, DTS, DTS Neo:6, MPEG-2 AAC, LPCM 2ch/5.1ch/7.1ch, Dolby Pro Logic IIz
Input terminal: HDMIx3, Opticalx1, Stereo pin jack x1
Output termail: HDMIx1, Opticalx1

  
 it gets good reviews, But the price is a bit too high....


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> I considered buying these, but the price put me off, if it was around 200 bucks I would have bought them. it has HDMI inputs, you can send the sound signals ( PCM or DD/DTS) along with the Video signal into the box, then the box decodes the sound and transmits it to the headphone and the video signal goes to the TV or whatever...in short, it works with consoles and PC. the decoder box accepts all sorts of audio signals, here are the specs:
> 
> _Specifications:_
> Driver unit: 50mm (CCAW voice coil adoption)
> ...


 
 It got good review, but how is the Surround compare to Creative X7 SBX or AStro MIxAmp Dolby Headphone? that's the $1 million question
  
 I dont care about the price, as long as the surround lives up to it.  But can you hook up another / different headphone to the surround box? Or it only works via wireless with the Sony headphone?
  
 And also, do you know if sony sell the surround box separate?
 This is the first surround sound processor box that has HDMI inputs, which i was looking for. I don't see why not a lot of companies make HDMI input .


----------



## Sam21

the decoder box only works wirelessly and only with the Sony headphone.


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> the decoder box only works wirelessly and only with the Sony headphone.


 
 Ok that put me off   I just don't get why companies always make Wireless headphones that come with a Surround sound processor? Why can't they make it a "wired" version? Why it has to be wireless and surround sound?


----------



## Sam21

I wonder about the same thing. Perhaps they build their stuff based on market analysis, supply and demand. maybe the demand for such a thing is low. not everyone thinks as you do, people prefer simplified things like plug and play.


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> I wonder about the same thing. Perhaps they build their stuff based on market analysis, supply and demand. maybe the demand for such a thing is low. not everyone thinks as you do, people prefer simplified things like plug and play.


 
  
 But do you actually have this Sony headphone and the surround box? If so, can you compare it to the Creative SBX surround or Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Sam21

I don't have it, but it gets good reviews, take a look at it here :
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRHW700DS-9-1-Channel-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B00J0XR10A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1438653348&sr=8-2&keywords=sony+9.1+wireless


----------



## Helvetica bold

Ive been reading reviews on the Sony MDR-HW700DS–pretty impressive. Those are the 2014 model so will there be an updated version 
 for 2015? My dream would be for Sony to add Dolby Atmos and DTS:X processing but I won't hold my breath. 
  
 http://www.techworld.com/review/headphones/sony-mdr-hw700ds-91-review-3522663/


----------



## Fegefeuer

the bad frontal projection kills this device. Center channel is in your head. This should never happen. Not to mention it only works with its own headset.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rudyae86 said:


> Dolby Atmos, yes I know its a Speaker Surround DSP but there are already phones and tablets that have I guess Dolby Atmos via software? Im not sure, Im still investigating how this is happening in phones and tablets. From what I know, Dolby Atmos on phones and tablets, makes their little speakers have a slightly wider soundstage and make it seem like you are surrounded by a speaker set up. Now this isnt new and isnt the first time Dolby makes software that mimics a virtual surround set up while using to rear speakers only.
> 
> But ever since EA said that Star Wars Battlefront will be the first game to utilize Dolby Atmos on PC only.....Im trying to understand, how the heck are they planning to implement this?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The thing about Dolby Atmos is that it does for movies what Aureal A3D and DirectSound3D were doing for PC games decades ago: it finally moves on to mapping sounds in 3D space (as opposed to fixed speaker channels) and letting the DSP in the AVR/preamp decide where those sounds should be played with the speakers provided. Better late than never, I suppose.
  
 It's not so much a new speaker system as much as it is a new way of handling 3D sound at the source, which benefits both elaborate speaker setups with height channels and headphones.
  
 In theory, they could use the same binaural sorta mix techniques they've been doing with Dolby Headphone, but instead use the 3D Atmos source data for mixing instead of a 5.1/7.1/9.1 speaker downmix as DH currently would. This is exactly what we've wanted back in PC gaming for some time now, and it's what they claim to be doing with Atmos on mobile (which just raises the question of what mobile apps on Android have the capability to properly utilize Atmos sources in the first place, and for that matter, where you can find Atmos content).
  
 But whether it'll actually work that way in SW:BF3 (or BF2015, however you wanna put it to avoid confusion with the very first game) is another matter entirely. There's too many unanswered questions and too few Dolby Atmos setups in most homes. I'd try it, but even a basic 5.1.2 (the last .2 meaning two height/overhead channels) system would be too cost-prohibitive right now.


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> The thing about Dolby Atmos is that it does for movies what Aureal A3D and DirectSound3D were doing for PC games decades ago: it finally moves on to mapping sounds in 3D space (as opposed to fixed speaker channels) and letting the DSP in the AVR/preamp decide where those sounds should be played with the speakers provided. Better late than never, I suppose.
> 
> It's not so much a new speaker system as much as it is a new way of handling 3D sound at the source, which benefits both elaborate speaker setups with height channels and headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 What you describe is probably the simplest form of explaining it. Now, there are still many unanswered questions about this in SW:BF3....
  
 I mean, this PC isnt with a EVGA GTX 980 FTW and an upgrade to a 4790K, isn't going to play this game without really good sound lol.
  
 Im hoping EA answers this question about Dolby Atmos at Gamescom this week......


----------



## Evshrug

Well, if anyone feels like sending me an atmos-decoder, my grandfather just gave me all his speakers and amp. I also have mine, so presently I have 9.1 passive speakers, and none of them hooked up XD

Bear with my 2am thought process here for a minute. So yeah, Atmos 3D source data is a great and anticipated thing, IMO it's a mystery why there was the regression of progress in audio spatialization with Windows Vista (thanks M$, though the audio capabilities of popular game consoles probably contributed too). We've gotten a few generations of "HD" resolution increases and active 3D technology that's actually pretty good, why NOT expand beyond the 2D ring of "surround" 5.1/7.1 speaker systems? Well, cost and practicality of placing that many speakers. That makes headphones and HRTF headphone surround processing a more attainable and practical choice. But again, we've got two roadblocks (maybe three) and Nameless already mentioned one of them: 3D audio content, and a compatible headphone processing. We need content! We need that data translated for headphones! And thirdly, we need to advertise/market the ... The... the whole digestive system out of it, make everyone know they can get a more realistic 3D audio experience with headphones. Most people have never heard of headphone surround, or think of surround as something they go to theaters for.

I still believe that 3D surround sound should reasonably be more mainstream (from a practicality & cost perspective) than 4k tv's, 3D tv's, 5.1 speaker systems, high-end graphics cards... It takes more money and effort to have any of those other things. 3D audio completes the experience and fulfills the fantasy of immersion.


----------



## raband

Quick query here guys,
  
 Over the years I've tried a fair few different setups and can still never get the ingame sounds to appear to me as if they are coming from the front of me through headphones.
  
 eg, if a plane is flying in a circle over/around my head, it's audio position is perfect and precise while it's behind me, but once it gets past the 90' to either side it still sounds as if it's to my rear (as if it's sweeping back and forth behind me, rather than circling around in front of me)
  
 Was just wondering if this was something common, or if my ears are broken 
  
 Gear I've tried over the time:
 Mixamp, X-Fi Titanium HD, Sound Blaster X7,and SB live? onboard
 Senn HD598'S, 650's and 700's and ATH M50's
 Have got some K7xx's on the way - fingers crossed they open up the front of the soundstage to me


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> Quick query here guys,
> 
> Over the years I've tried a fair few different setups and can still never get the ingame sounds to appear to me as if they are coming from the front of me through headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Definitely broken ears (or broken setup) I use some of the gear You have and have ho problem hearing sounds coming to me from the front.


----------



## raband

Cheers for the quick reply


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HE-400S graphs innerfidelity posted look, underwhelming, at least in terms of what I expected from the bass. It rolls off like an open dynamic, not a planar. Ah well. Maybe next year.

I mean, it looks very well balanced, despite the bass roll off, but it's jarring to see.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> The HE-400S graphs innerfidelity posted look, underwhelming, at least in terms of what I expected from the bass. It rolls off like an open dynamic, not a planar. Ah well. Maybe next year.
> 
> I mean, it looks very well balanced, despite the bass roll off, but it's jarring to see.


 
  
 Here's a graph that doesn't look underwhelming. 
  
 http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersEther.pdf


----------



## TumbleButt

axelcloris said:


> Here's a graph that doesn't look underwhelming.
> 
> http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersEther.pdf


 
 Well... dayum


----------



## Yethal

http://www.blasterx.com/
  
 Looks like creative is building their own Mixamp-esque DSP (slightly modified Sound Blaster E5 from the looks of it)


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> http://www.blasterx.com/
> 
> Looks like creative is building their own Mixamp-esque DSP (slightly modified Sound Blaster E5 from the looks of it)


 
  
 I'd be willing to give their XG5 a try. It'll be hard to beat the convenience of my Mixamp 5.8.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Would the 7.1 surround of XG5 work with the PS4 since its USB. I thought the PS4 would only do 2.0 stereo over USB.


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> Would the 7.1 surround of XG5 work with the PS4 since its USB. I thought the PS4 would only do 2.0 stereo over USB.


 
 Sound Blaster E5 (the device XG5 is based on) also has mini optical in (not shown in the picture). I guess usb would be used for chat only.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Sound Blaster E5 (the device XG5 is based on) also has mini optical in (not shown in the picture). I guess usb would be used for chat only.




Seems like a replacement/upgrade for the Recon3D USB that I had hoped for


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll happily downgrade from the bloated X7 if it turns out to be good.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Seems like a replacement/upgrade for the Recon3D USB that I had hoped for


 
 lets hope so....
  
 Well good thing I didnt jump on the X7 then .
  
 though I have an asus dg pci card and been planning to get a good DAC since I jumped on the Objective O2 at massdrop.
  
 Hmmm....
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b4e0NM4Ed4


----------



## mikealfonsooss

hi  my name is  Dimitris and I am from, Greece  in 20 days I want to buy a new  headset for pc games and movies and music
  
 I saw a  lot of reviews  for  the  senheizer game zero  black  they  say in all the reviews  that are  very  good
  
  
 the problem is  that they say that don't  have surround and  also have little bass
  
 is it bad   for  pc games;;
  
 so can  you tell me if  senheizer  game zero it worths to buy them;;;
  
  
 can  you tell me which are  the  best   top 10 gaming headsets  ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
  
  
 because I don't which to  buy and  the problem is in that my  country  we have some companies
  
 like  senheizer    audiotexnika  razer  steelsiries  turtlebeach  sony  denon  logiteck  creative  madcatz and some another companies
  
 the people in my country they said that the  best companies  are   senheizer and  aydiotexnika 
  
 but I want to get one second opinion because I want to buy good  gaming headsets
  
 and  for  this reason I came in  your site..
  
  
 the people from my  country  told me to  buy  senheizer  game zero  and also they told me to  look  for  aydiotexnika
  
  
 so tell me  senheizer  game zero are very good for gaming;;;
  
  
 which are  the best top 10  gaming headsets;;;and also and for music and movies;l;


----------



## Sam21

get Xonar U3 + the sen headset...then you got yourself a nice surround headset


----------



## mikealfonsooss

I have  tha asus stx soundcard
  
 so do you think that  senheizer game zero  are  good;;
  
  
 I want to tell me some things about  senheizer game zero
  
 is  it    good;;
  
 they say that don't have surround and no bass
  
  
 which are  the positives;;
  
 which are  the negatives;;
  
 for gaming I need closed or open headsets
  
 can   you  give me some informations  for these game zero  senheizer;;;
  
  
 are  they good  for movies and music;;;


----------



## Ufasas

How would you rank Game Zero VS Asus Orion Rog Headset VS Creative Aurvana Live, how much would they differ one from each other in FPS games for pinpointing steps and enemy directions?


----------



## mikealfonsooss

I don't know dude
  
 the only thing I am asking if   henseizer game zero are good;;


----------



## Sam21

mikealfonsooss said:


> I have  tha asus stx soundcard
> 
> so do you think that  senheizer game zero  are  good;;
> 
> ...


 
 the G4me Zero is closed back which means the sound stage would be closed-like, the senn PC 360(G4me One) is much better soundstage wise than the G4me Zero because it is opened-back, if you want the headset for competitive gaming go with PC 360(G4me One). I don't know about G4me Zero, but generally, Closed back headphones have more bass impact than open ones.


----------



## Sam21

ufasas said:


> How would you rank Game Zero VS Asus Orion Rog Headset VS Creative Aurvana Live, how much would they differ one from each other in FPS games for pinpointing steps and enemy directions?


 
 I would pick the CAL, the soundstage is VERY impressive for a closed-back, it is also Bassy with smooth treble though I think it lacks a bit of sparkle, I have the CAL!2 which is said to be very similar to the CAL! as they both use the same driver[denons].
  
 get CAL!2 because it has a detachable cord.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

what is  the  best  for gaming  opened  -back or  closed back;;
  
  
 like  doom games  farcry and more  fps  games;;';
  
 and one more they say that game zero don't have surround and  they have little bass
  
 for  games surround  is good or not;;


----------



## mikealfonsooss

you say that game zero are  not good;;


----------



## Sam21

Opened back : wide soundstage , airy , poor isolation , soft hitting bass
  
 closed back : smaller soundstage(there are exceptions though), better isolation, harder hitting bass.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

what is the  best  close back or open back;';'
  
 and  what is  your opinion for  game zero henseizer;


----------



## mikealfonsooss

some  people say  that open back is the best
  
 some people say tha close back is  best
  
 I am  confused now


----------



## AxelCloris

mikealfonsooss said:


> what is  the  best  for gaming  opened  -back or  closed back;;
> 
> like  doom games  farcry and more  fps  games;;';
> 
> ...


 
  
 In my personal experience the best closed was the Alpha Dog and the best open was the HE560 w/ grill mod.
  
 Surround is awesome for some games and unnecessary for others.


----------



## Sam21

mikealfonsooss said:


> what is the  best  close back or open back;';'
> 
> and  what is  your opinion for  game zero henseizer;


 
  
 I think Denon D7000 and Fostex TH900 and perhaps some T50RP variants/derivatives are the best closed-back dynamic headphones out there.
  
 the best open dynamic is said to be the HD800, 
  
  
 In your case, if you have a sound card with surround sound, Just get fidelio X2 + V-MODA boom pro...


----------



## mikealfonsooss

so what to choose open or close;;


----------



## Sam21

mikealfonsooss said:


> so what to choose open or close;;


 
 get open , if you don't care about isolation.
  
 Fidelio X2 + Vmoda
  
 AKG K7xx
  
 Sony MA900
  
 DT990 ( annoying with harsh recordings)


----------



## mikealfonsooss

so  game zero are   not  good;;


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> DT990 ( annoying with harsh recordings)


 
  
 Annoying in general. There, I said it. Shots fired.


----------



## Sam21

good or bad  depends on your perspective and conditions.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

what   you mean;;
  
 look I am comfused with a lot of things
  
 can you tell me first  which are the  top 10 gaming heasets
  
  
 and what is the best open or close;;;
  
  
 because I am confused now


----------



## jincuteguy

Wait a few weeks and get the new Sound Blaster H7 7.1 surround sound headset.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

so not to buy game zero;;;;;


----------



## mikealfonsooss

one more question do you think that my soundcard asus stx is  good for pc games and movies and music;;


----------



## jincuteguy

Your soundcard Asus STX is only good for music.  The sound blaster sound cards are better for gaming.
  
 If you want  your money well spent, buy the Sound Blaster X7 and the Philip X2 headphones.  
  
 Don't buy the Sennheiser Game Zero, it lacks the Bass impact for immersive gaming.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

my soundcard is only good for music and movies;;
  
 not  for games;;;


----------



## raband

The very first post of this thread has heaps of great reviews of different headphones at different price points.
 That should be a very good place to start getting an idea of what way to head,
 If you're not playing online then the "Fun" factor of the headphones would more likely be more important to you that the "Competitive" factor.
  
 Open/Closed etc - will be down to your personal circumstances, preferences and environment.
 I prefer open by far, but that's just me - heaps of other people far prefer closed.
 We can't answer that one for you - you'll need to try on some of each variety and work it out for yourself.
  
 Open cans do let sound in and out - maybe an issue if you're in a noisy environment or likely to be near others who could be annoyed by the sound coming out of your headphones
  
 Closed ones have better isolation - less sound gets in and out to/from the surrounding area. I prefer being able to hear stuff that's going on around me while using my headphones - the closed ones give me a slight claustrophobic feel.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound is a good thread for information on sound cards and getting surround audio out of your stereo headphones.
  
 I think the first thing you need to do is work out for yourself which type of headphone is best for you - open or closed. Get yourself to a shop (if there are any near you) and have a play with a few different types. Work out what you find comfortable and pleasing to your ears. Both types have their own pluses and minuses.
  
 From there you can look at different ones within your price range and narrow down your search.
  
 Keep in mind - one person may love a certain headphone, while another person can hate the same one.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

what  you mean  that it doesn't  have bass;;
 game zero;;;
  
  
  
 it lacks the  bass impact;;;
  
 so game zero is not good;;


----------



## mikealfonsooss

my asus stx is very good  for pc games
  
 who said that stx is not good;;


----------



## jincuteguy

Did anyone notice the way this guy mikealfonsooss talk is weird? and how he used ";;;;" for everything? And he just joined Head-Fi today too.  It's either he's playing with us or it's a bot.


----------



## rudyae86

jincuteguy said:


> Did anyone notice the way this guy mikealfonsooss talk is weird? and how he used ";;;;" for everything? And he just joined Head-Fi today too.  It's either he's playing with us or it's a bot.


 
 Yeah thats what I noticed. Not to be rude, but its annoying and it could be a kid or a bot......but its very very weird...


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Did anyone notice the way this guy mikealfonsooss talk is weird? and how he used ";;;;" for everything? And he just joined Head-Fi today too.  It's either he's playing with us or it's a bot.


 


rudyae86 said:


> Yeah thats what I noticed. Not to be rude, but its annoying and it could be a kid or a bot......but its very very weird...


 
 He's not a bot, he's just a non-native English speaker. Many European people only know basic English, some of them do not speak English at all. I don't get the semicolon thing either, but I'm just going to assume it's some sort of cultural thing. Besides, this guy is Greek so he has more important things to do right now than learning English (like saving his country's economy). Which reminds me of a really cheesy joke.
  
 Greeks got so desperate in search for money, they started responding to Nigerian scam mail.


----------



## Ufasas

Had CAL!1, was good in games, but don't remember how they did prevent outer sound to leak into my ears. Was looking for some closed cans with good soundstage and no heavy bass which are actually falling into that closed back cans good soundstage with exception category. Heard good things about both CALs, surprisingly both sell on ebay on auction, and auction might end soon.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

I am from Greece I don't speak very good English sorry
  
 so I have one  question   which soundcard to buy;;;
  
  
 soundblaster zx or soundblaster   z retail΄:;;;
  
  
 or to buy asus soundcard;; for pc games and music and  movies;;
  
  
 I will sell my asus stx today
  
 which card  to buy;;;;;


----------



## Yethal

mikealfonsooss said:


> I am from Greece I don't speak very good English sorry
> 
> so I have one  question   which soundcard to buy;;;
> 
> ...


 
 Do not sell the STX, it's a great card, why do You want to sell it?


----------



## Evshrug

Mike,
What games do you play? Have you had any headphones before?

Please try not to spam many posts.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

because  asus stx  is only for headsets and for to have  5.1 it can be only optical with 5.1 multimidia edifier which i have
  
  
 these they told me 
 that The particular card audio in stereo, not multichannel. Powers and what I have heard that this card is only for the music which is rather sosto.Se this case the question and fears have absolute basis, essentially because watching movies with stereo sound instead of 5.1. So, in that a product has X Euro not mean it is ideal for all uses. It is an own arbitrary conclusions. H state pseftompalonetai if 5.1 speakers have optical in, whenever connects the optical out pc with sound system with optical fiber and essentially disables the card of 200 Euro, allowing processing of sound in sound system with clearly inferior results qualitatively hand, multichannel audio no. You can send 5.1 sound via fiber, but this sound will be digitally processing the ara-conversion in analog will take over the sound system and not by your sound card. Basically ie bypassing the asus optical fiber. It is as if there is. And this means a reduction in sound quality. The only bet is the 5.1 sound, but would be allowed to have him onboard and to your audio system, so there is no point asus stx ... As to anxiety **** happens, but you made a mistake if market thy purposes are the tapes. The asus xonar stx is for stereo (music) and expensive headphones (music).


----------



## Yethal

mikealfonsooss said:


> because  asus stx  is only for headsets and for to have  5.1 it can be only optical with 5.1 multimidia edifier which i have


 
 Just buy Asus Xonar STX daughterboard. It is an additional board connected to the regular STX that has surround outs for 5.1/7.1 speakers. Looks like this:


----------



## mikealfonsooss

yoy mean Essence STX II 7.1 ;;


----------



## mikealfonsooss

Asus Xonar STX daughterboard;;;;;;;
  
  
 IS ANOTHER CARD;;
  
  
 I DONT UNDERSTAND


----------



## Yethal

It's an additional card, connected to the main STX card. It has speakers output for 5.1.
  
 Also, please stop writing in all caps.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

you mean asus stx II;; this card you mean can you send me one  link please;;


----------



## raband

Doesn't the STX do Dolby Headphone etc which is all he needs/is looking for?
  
 Shouldn't he be fine with what he has?
  
 I guarantee though - he's doing far better English than I'd be able to do Greek 
  
 Mike - do you need a microphone? (sounded like you're mostly interested in single player games?)
  
 If not then you'll be able to save money and get a better headphone by not looking at "gaming" headphones. 
  
 Also - what sort of budget are you looking at?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He's fine with what he has. People need to stop saying his card isnt good for games. What. HE HAS DOLBY HEADPHONE. Set that up right, it will do everything well.

Jin, you have an opinion, not a fact.

Also, CAL2 doesnt use Fostex drivers like CAL, IIRC. Fact check.


----------



## raband

Thought so.
  
 Am I right that his first step would be working out if he wants open or closed?
  
 That'll be something he needs to work out - by trying a couple/few of each.
  
 Then he can narrow it down further


----------



## mikealfonsooss

i have some isues with my asus stx and i want to help me please;;
  
 i will write  what the people from my country told me
  
i will write you what they told me

The particular card audio in stereo, not multichannel. Powers and what I have heard that this card is only for the music which is rather sosto.Se this case the question and fears have absolute basis, essentially because watching movies with stereo sound instead of 5.1. So, in that a product has X Euro not mean it is ideal for all uses. It is an own arbitrary conclusions. H state pseftompalonetai if 5.1 speakers have optical in, whenever connects the optical out pc with sound system with optical fiber and essentially disables the card of 200 Euro, allowing processing of sound in sound system with clearly inferior results qualitatively hand, multichannel audio no. You can send 5.1 sound via fiber, but this sound will be digitally processing the ara-conversion in analog will take over the sound system and not by your sound card. Basically ie bypassing the asus optical fiber. It is as if there is. And this means a reduction in sound quality. The only bet is the 5.1 sound, but would be allowed to have him onboard and to your audio system, so there is no point asus stx ... As to anxiety **** happens, but you made a mistake if market your task are the movies. The asus xonar stx is for stereo (music) and expensive headphones (music).

Also the coaxial / optical / spdif bypass the sound card of pc, whatever this.
Ie either play with onboard spdif, either with spdif of stx the sound effect will be exactly like one that the digital to analog convert it gets to the sound system. Bunch of 200 Euro in stx ie.

Conversely if you get a 5.1 sound card and sends analog sound to 5.1 sound system would have clearly higher quality, but thereafter is subjective as I said. This is also the reason that there are sound cards Besides.


can you use the google translate because i dont know very good english


----------



## mikealfonsooss

so my problem is that  my asus stx for to have 5.1  sound it must  do only optical and coaxial
  
 they told me that  asus stx  can  have  5.1 sound system only optical but  it  will lose  in the sound quality because my asus stx is not  5.1  
  
  
 so my question is  will i see anydiference in the sound quality if  i connect my asus stx  optical with my  5.1  sound system which i have;;


----------



## raband

STX is perfect for headphones
  
 You hear surround sound through stereo headphones - card does magic
  
 No need to worry about anything - listen to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUDTlvagjJA with headphones on
  
 Your STX does that.


----------



## mikealfonsooss

i mean for  http://www.edifier.com/us/en/speakers/s760d-5.1-gaming-speakers
  
 i dont say  for  the headfones


----------



## mikealfonsooss

i dont say for the  headfones
  
 i am saying  for my 5.1  edifier  s760D


----------



## mikealfonsooss

read  this p[lease;;
  
The particular card audio in stereo, not multichannel. Powers and what I have heard that this card is only for the music which is rather sosto.Se this case the question and fears have absolute basis, essentially because watching movies with stereo sound instead of 5.1. So, in that a product has X Euro not mean it is ideal for all uses. It is an own arbitrary conclusions. H state pseftompalonetai if 5.1 speakers have optical in, whenever connects the optical out pc with sound system with optical fiber and essentially disables the card of 200 Euro, allowing processing of sound in sound system with clearly inferior results qualitatively hand, multichannel audio no. You can send 5.1 sound via fiber, but this sound will be digitally processing the ara-conversion in analog will take over the sound system and not by your sound card. Basically ie bypassing the asus optical fiber. It is as if there is. And this means a reduction in sound quality. The only bet is the 5.1 sound, but would be allowed to have him onboard and to your audio system, so there is no point asus stx ... As to anxiety **** happens, but you made a mistake if market your task are the movies. The asus xonar stx is for stereo (music) and expensive headphones (music).

Also the coaxial / optical / spdif bypass the sound card of pc, whatever this.
Ie either play with onboard spdif, either with spdif of stx the sound effect will be exactly like one that the digital to analog convert it gets to the sound system. Bunch of 200 Euro in stx ie.

Conversely if you get a 5.1 sound card and sends analog sound to 5.1 sound system would have clearly higher quality, but thereafter is subjective as I said. This is also the reason that there are sound cards Besides.


----------



## martin vegas

mikealfonsooss said:


> so my problem is that  my asus stx for to have 5.1  sound it must  do only optical and coaxial
> 
> they told me that  asus stx  can  have  5.1 sound system only optical but  it  will lose  in the sound quality because my asus stx is not  5.1
> 
> ...


 

 You can send the signal from your stx to your 5.1 speakers by coaxial for watching movies..then you can use a headset or headphones with the stx and use dolby headphone for fps gaming..problem solved!


----------



## mikealfonsooss

i dont  want  to use headset  or  headfones
  
 i am,saying  with my 5.1 multimedia system which i have will i see bad quality with asus stx;;

will i lose soundcards features΄:;;; with optical΄΄΄;;;;

will i see any diferences if i lose soundcards features΄;;;;

because i dont want to sell my card and to buy another


----------



## Evshrug

Mike,
So, have you decided not to get the Sennheiser G4me Zero black, nor any other headphone? The STX has a nice DAC, Amp, and headphone output with Dolby Headphone which makes normal stereo headphones sound like virtual surround, very good. It also has a stereo RCA output and an optical output for either stereo or Dolby 5.1 encoded output. The STX is very nice for movies, gaming, and music, _if_ you use headphones or an AV receiver with 5.1 passive speakers.

When you say 5.1 multimedia Edifier speaker system, do you have these?



It looks like the M1550 only has analog inputs, so you wouldn't use digital at all unless you have the S760D system. An analogue 5.1 active speaker system is off topic from this thread; I can tell you that a 5.1 active speaker set + STX is not a well-thought-out system. If you have more questions about that, you will get better help if you post in a thread about soundcards or speakers.


----------



## raband

Yes
  
 Bose are good brand for speaker system
  
 Get Monster cable to hook them up with
  
 Ask in camera forum about video cards too - they know Canon make good 35mm film stock for the cinematic feel
  
 ;;;;
  
 Blind test both of the screens too - just remember that your left eye may be a little bit laggy due to the ouzo
  
 Good luck in your search for headphones that you don't use because you use multimedia speakers which people told you are good and bad
  
 Google translate said sell the Parthenon, buy Beats by Dre


----------



## Ufasas

So CAL2 coming after auction next week to my place, what that fostex thing is doing for CAL`1 ? Game Zero went away for 64 pounds, got cal2 for 31, so i think i will be happy with this, i want isolated sound and closed back cans, guess will be at least decent, also cable detachable, could use v-moda boom pro cable maybe? with mic in one cable together. Sound card is Asus d2 7.1, plenty for fps


----------



## martin vegas

evshrug said:


> Mike,
> So, have you decided not to get the Sennheiser G4me Zero black, nor any other headphone? The STX has a nice DAC, Amp, and headphone output with Dolby Headphone which makes normal stereo headphones sound like virtual surround, very good. It also has a stereo RCA output and an optical output for either stereo or Dolby 5.1 encoded output. The STX is very nice for movies, gaming, and music, _if_ you use headphones or an AV receiver with 5.1 passive speakers.
> 
> When you say 5.1 multimedia Edifier speaker system, do you have these?
> ...


 
*EDIFIER S760D HOME THEATER 5.1 SPEAKERS 3xOPTICAL  540W RMS*
* *
5.1 channel home theatre system with Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, and DTS Digital Surround decoders 3 optical, 1 coaxial input, analog 5.1 channel, and dual stereo inputs Wooden enclosures for all speakers effectively reduce resonance and vibration 10”(260 mm) subwoofer driver with twin bass reflex radiators 2-way satellite speakers with 3o”(92 mm) mid-range drivers and 1”(25 mm) silk dome tweeters Professionally calibrated crossover in each satellite speaker Class D amplifier and DSP (Digital Signal Processing) technology Power booster function to enhance system volume Multi-functional wired controller with LCD display and multi-functional wireless remote control Built-in 600W high efficiency switching power supply with low standby power consumption
  
Features
 Power Output: L/R/C/SL/SR: 60W x 5 
 SW: 240W Audio 
 Input Type: 3 Optical, 1 coaxial, analog 5.1, dual stereo inputs 
 Digital Decoder: Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS 
 Input sensitivity: L/R/C/SL/SR: 5.1, Aux, CD: 750mV ± 50mV Optical, coaxial: 350 ± 50FFSSW: 5.1
 Aux, CD: 900mV ± 50mV Optical, coaxial: 400 ± 50FFS 
 Frequency Response:L/R/C/SL/SR: 160Hz - 20KH SW: 35Hz -110Hz 
 Chanel Separation:R/L: >45dB 
 Adjustment: Wired remote, IR remote controller 
 Speaker unit: Sub:10" (260mm) 8Ω 
 Mid-range unit: 3.5" (92mm) 4Ω 
 Treble unit: 1" (25mm) 6Ω 
 Speaker Dimension: Subwoofer: 367mm x 397mm x 489mm (W x H x D) 
 Satellite: 116mm x 203mm x 160mm (W x H x D) 
 Center: 316mm x 117mm x 157mm (W x H x D) 
 Weight: Subwoofer: 19kg | Satellite + Center: 11.5Kg


----------



## mikealfonsooss

i have     S760D system. and  tell  me  will my asus stx will work  very well in  my  s760D system;;;
  
 because  some people from my country  told me   that  . You can send 5.1 sound via fiber, but this sound will be digitally processing the ara-conversion in analog will take over the sound system and not by your sound card. Basically ie bypassing the asus optical fiber. It is as if there is. And this means a reduction in sound quality. The only bet is the 5.1 sound, but would be allowed to have him onboard and to your audio system, so there is no point asus stx ...
  
  
 these thing  some people told me  from my  country  and  they wanted me to sell my asus stx  to them.........
  
 look this i want to know if  my asus stx will work very  well in my    S760D system;;;; without to lose quality in sound 
  
 and i told  you that i have  
*EDIFIER S760D HOME THEATER 5.1 SPEAKERS 3xOPTICAL  540W RMS*
* *
 5.1 channel home theatre system with Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, and DTS Digital Surround decoders 3 optical, 1 coaxial input, analog 5.1 channel, and dual stereo inputs Wooden enclosures for all speakers effectively reduce resonance and vibration 10”(260 mm) subwoofer driver with twin bass reflex radiators 2-way satellite speakers with 3o”(92 mm) mid-range drivers and 1”(25 mm) silk dome tweeters Professionally calibrated crossover in each satellite speaker Class D amplifier and DSP (Digital Signal Processing) technology Power booster function to enhance system volume Multi-functional wired controller with LCD display and multi-functional wireless remote control Built-in 600W high efficiency switching power supply with low standby power consumption
  
Features
 Power Output: L/R/C/SL/SR: 60W x 5
 SW: 240W Audio
 Input Type: 3 Optical, 1 coaxial, analog 5.1, dual stereo inputs
 Digital Decoder: Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II, DTS
 Input sensitivity: L/R/C/SL/SR: 5.1, Aux, CD: 750mV ± 50mV Optical, coaxial: 350 ± 50FFSSW: 5.1
 Aux, CD: 900mV ± 50mV Optical, coaxial: 400 ± 50FFS
 Frequency Response:L/R/C/SL/SR: 160Hz - 20KH SW: 35Hz -110Hz
 Chanel Separation:R/L: >45dB
 Adjustment: Wired remote, IR remote controller
 Speaker unit: Sub:10" (260mm) 8Ω
 Mid-range unit: 3.5" (92mm) 4Ω
 Treble unit: 1" (25mm) 6Ω
 Speaker Dimension: Subwoofer: 367mm x 397mm x 489mm (W x H x D)
 Satellite: 116mm x 203mm x 160mm (W x H x D)
 Center: 316mm x 117mm x 157mm (W x H x D)
 Weight: Subwoofer: 19kg | Satellite + Center: 11.5Kg


----------



## jincuteguy

How do you guys hook up your X7 to other DAC / Amp? And still get proper SBX surround through Optical?
  
 Like let say if i want to do X7 (optical out) -> (some random amp) -> headphone?


----------



## Yethal

I literally have no idea what is going on in this thread. Seems like everything went bat**** crazy in here.
  
  


jincuteguy said:


> How do you guys hook up your X7 to other DAC / Amp? And still get proper SBX surround through Optical?
> 
> Like let say if i want to do X7 (optical out) -> (some random amp) -> headphone?


 
 X7 > Optical > DAC > amp
  
 Set What U Hear as a default listening device, enable listening and then set output to the S/PDIF output in Windows Sound Panel


----------



## Alfisti89

How do you guys running a V-moda boom mic or Beyerdynamic COP mic have it connected?
 I got the beyerdynamic COP mic and the volume is low,  got 100% on volume and 0% microphone boost.
  
 I don't have a pci-e soundcard since i'm using a USB dac/amp for my headphone/audio output and just purchased the beyer cop mic so the microphone is now connected directly to the motherboard right now
 .
 Lastest audio drivers installed. 
  
 any recommendations on pci-e soundcards?  only gonna use it for mic input


----------



## Yethal

alfisti89 said:


> How do you guys running a V-moda boom mic or Beyerdynamic COP mic have it connected?
> I got the beyerdynamic COP mic and the volume is low,  got 100% on volume and 0% microphone boost.
> 
> I don't have a pci-e soundcard since i'm using a USB dac/amp for my headphone/audio output and just purchased the beyer cop mic so the microphone is now connected directly to the motherboard right now
> ...


 
 You mean the microphone volume when listening to Your own voice? Try setting the microphone boost a little higher. Keep in mind though that it may introduce some distortion.
  
 If You're only going to use a card for microphone input why don't You go for a USB interface for the microphone as well?


----------



## Alfisti89

yethal said:


> You mean the microphone volume when listening to Your own voice? Try setting the microphone boost a little higher. Keep in mind though that it may introduce some distortion.
> 
> If You're only going to use a card for microphone input why don't You go for a USB interface for the microphone as well?


 
 Yea i'v tried mic boost,  aint gonna happen   
  
 Got any examples for a good usb soundcard? 
 searched on ebay and found *Creative Labs Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1*


----------



## Yethal

alfisti89 said:


> Yea i'v tried mic boost,  aint gonna happen
> 
> Got any examples for a good usb soundcard?
> searched on ebay and found *Creative Labs Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1*


 
 You don't need stuff that expensive if it's only going to be used for mic input. if You do however want to spend a lot of money on it go for Focusrite Scarlet.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> I literally have no idea what is going on in this thread. Seems like everything went bat**** crazy in here.
> 
> 
> X7 > Optical > DAC > amp
> ...


 
 Nice thx man, gonna try that out.  
  
 Also, I just figured out with my X7.  If you plugged your X7 into a USB 3.0 port, it will have pop / crack noise.  As soon as I switched to a USB 2.0 port, all the pop static noise are gone.  So if anyone has the pop / crack issue with your X7,
 try a USB 2.0 port, or a different usb.


----------



## jincuteguy

I hope the new Creative Sound Blaster X G5 Dac / Amp come out soon so I can compare it to the X7.  
  
 Might get Philip X2 also.
  
 Also, did anyone replace their Philip X2 earpads?  If so, where can I order a pair?


----------



## Evshrug

Martin,
I said that he only has analog inputs IF he doesn't have the $900 TOP OF THE LINE S760D system. I know you were trying to help, but at this point we're just feeding the fire.


*Mikealfonsooss,*
This is a headphone thread. 
Specifically, a thread about headphones and headphone surround for gaming. In 24 hours, you've invaded this thread with 38 off-topic posts, with barely any indication that you've read what people have replied to you. You have derailed and taken over this thread. Please stop, or we will flag you for spam.


----------



## jincuteguy

evshrug said:


> Martin,
> I said that he only has analog inputs IF he doesn't have the $900 TOP OF THE LINE S760D system. I know you were trying to help, but at this point we're just feeding the fire.
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I already marked him for Spam.  He was spamming like crazy with non-sense infos and keep asking people the same thing over and over with weird punctuation.  I understand he's Greek or whatever but still.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't think it's because he's Greek, I think he was just asking a lot of similar questions but not listening to replies (or not understanding that we saw them and just didn't have much input). I looked up the STX and Edifier product line JUST to see if there was a simple answer.

And there IS a simple answer: the S760D won't do surround unless fed an optical or coax digital signal encoded in Dolby or DTS. That means any soundcard that can output Dolby or DTS encoded signal through optical or coax will work, and it means that the speaker system was designed knowing that the encoded stream would be the main way surround would be utilized. If a customer wants to send uncompressed surround to a DAC, they should use HDMI to an integrated receiver and skip out on the whole integrated Edifier subwoofer thing, but really Dolby or DTS will sound very good and Mike already bought those things; he should just use them.

At least with all his posts, he didn't once use derogatory language. I may need to ask for some boundaries, but I at least respect him for that.


----------



## raband

evshrug said:


> At least with all his posts, he didn't once use derogatory language. I may need to ask for some boundaries, but I at least respect him for that.


 
  
 10/10 for that - he was doing very well with the "English as a second language" 
  
 My patience wore out when he flipped it from heaphone/soundcard to his speakers.
  
 20+ posts asking the exact same question about headphones and then he says he really doesn't use them and only wants to work out if his card works with his speakers.........
  
 "People in his country say....." - maybe they are right?


----------



## martin vegas

raband said:


> 10/10 for that - he was doing very well with the "English as a second language"
> 
> My patience wore out when he flipped it from heaphone/soundcard to his speakers.
> 
> ...


 

 The stx has coaxial outputs and a 3.5mm optical output..he could have sent dolby digital live to the S760D..i told him to get a coaxial cable so he doesn't get the wrong optical cable!


----------



## rudyae86

So I think I will be selling my Recon3D USB. Not using it all since Im mostly on my PC and using an Asus DG card and just waiting to purchase a good DAC. Got me that O2 amp from massdrop. I will post in the for sell forum as soon as I get pictures taken of the item. If anyone wants to buy it, well now is your chance .
  
 Just afraid that a prince from Africa wants to buy it :/


----------



## SirMJC

Somewhat random question...have you guys heard anything about the performance of the revised G4me Zeros? They've dropped the impedance from 150ohms to 50ohms.
  
 I only ask because I'm in the market for a set of closed style cans to use late night on my Xbox One/PS4/PC, and outside of Astros, the G4me Zero seems like the best option. I had a friend who had a set of the 150ohms version and while they sounded good, they were lacking in bass and the overall volume was on the low side. I know the Xbox chat adapter only really drives cans around 32ohms, but I thought since they've revised the Zeros to 50ohms there might be enough to drive it better? (Or should one really buy something like the Astro Mixamp anyways?)


----------



## Yethal

sirmjc said:


> Somewhat random question...have you guys heard anything about the performance of the revised G4me Zeros? They've dropped the impedance from 150ohms to 50ohms.
> 
> I only ask because I'm in the market for a set of closed style cans to use late night on my Xbox One/PS4/PC, and outside of Astros, the G4me Zero seems like the best option. I had a friend who had a set of the 150ohms version and while they sounded good, they were lacking in bass and the overall volume was on the low side. I know the Xbox chat adapter only really drives cans around 32ohms, but I thought since they've revised the Zeros to 50ohms there might be enough to drive it better? (Or should one really buy something like the Astro Mixamp anyways?)


 
 Wait for Creative XG5 or buy 16ohm impedance Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro with Custom Headset Gear.


----------



## SirMJC

yethal said:


> Wait for Creative XG5 or buy 16ohm impedance Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro with Custom Headset Gear.


 
 Ah, the XG5 is a new mixamp for gamers? When is it supposed to release? I've heard that the Astro Mixamps have been troublesome across the board...


----------



## rudyae86

sirmjc said:


> Somewhat random question...have you guys heard anything about the performance of the revised G4me Zeros? They've dropped the impedance from 150ohms to 50ohms.
> 
> I only ask because I'm in the market for a set of closed style cans to use late night on my Xbox One/PS4/PC, and outside of Astros, the G4me Zero seems like the best option. I had a friend who had a set of the 150ohms version and while they sounded good, they were lacking in bass and the overall volume was on the low side. I know the Xbox chat adapter only really drives cans around 32ohms, but I thought since they've revised the Zeros to 50ohms there might be enough to drive it better? (Or should one really buy something like the Astro Mixamp anyways?)


 
 I think the G4ME Zeros are the same 150ohm and the 50ohms are the G4ME ONE......


----------



## SirMJC

rudyae86 said:


> I think the G4ME Zeros are the same 150ohm and the 50ohms are the G4ME ONE......


 
 http://en-us.sennheiser.com/g4me-zero
  
 I think they just announced at Gamescom that the Zeros are now 50ohms.


----------



## rudyae86

sirmjc said:


> http://en-us.sennheiser.com/g4me-zero
> 
> I think they just announced at Gamescom that the Zeros are now 50ohms.


 
 Oh, didnt know that. That is quite good now, since it really does require an amp to bring out its potential. I still have my PC350 SE (G4ME Zero) and I have not used them alot, especially during hot days which is a no no for closed backs with pleather.
  
 I actually do like them and they are the opposite of what the COPs are. I feel like the PC350 SE are a closed back version of the PC360, though the soundstage is smaller and the mids do get affected a bit. But only reason I bought the PC350 SE is because in case I end up going to a LAN party or some sort of tourny later on down the road. Got them for 100 bucks on woot at one point last year. I doubt the sound signature would change just because its impedance dropped to 50ohm. However like I said, for those just using stereo and plugin it to your PS4 controller would make it less of a hassle and having an amp attatched to your controller lol


----------



## Yethal

sirmjc said:


> Ah, the XG5 is a new mixamp for gamers? When is it supposed to release? I've heard that the Astro Mixamps have been troublesome across the board...


 
 It's Creative's modified Sound Blaster E5 and from the looks of it, it's going to beat Astro in the first round. Not sure about the release date though.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> It's Creative's modified Sound Blaster E5 and from the looks of it, it's going to beat Astro in the first round. Not sure about the release date though.


 
 Sources seem to say November of this year.
  
 Obviously Im buying this as soon as it releases.


----------



## SirMJC

So the volume would likely be diminished on Xbox One even with the 100ohm drop? That was my biggest concern.


----------



## conquerator2

400S Monday 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Curiosity intensifies.


----------



## jincuteguy

conquerator2 said:


> 400S Monday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 You gonna hook up your 400S to the X7?


----------



## conquerator2

jincuteguy said:


> You gonna hook up your 400S to the X7?




Can do.
As well as the main rig


----------



## rudyae86

sirmjc said:


> So the volume would likely be diminished on Xbox One even with the 100ohm drop? That was my biggest concern.


 
 Nope, quite the opposite. It should be easier to drive the headset because of that 100ohm drop, meaning it wont require much more juice to power 50ohm drivers.
  
 Though i honestly have not tried plugging in any headphones into a DS4 or an XONE controller and wouldnt know how loud it would sound but from experience when using it on my Recon3D USB, using a 32ohm headphone (Fidelio X1 and X2), 64ohm (AKG K7XX) and 150ohm (PC350 SE AKA G4ME ZERO w/150ohm drivers), there are noticeable differences in volume as for quality, that would be quite subjective since they do have different sound signatures and the recon3d amp is quite weak as well for certain headphones/headsets. The first two I have mentioned, should still be quite enjoyable with a weak amp per se but the 150ohm headset would be quite boring and dull, low volume.
  
 So now with the new drivers being 50ohm, it should sound quite louder without needing an additional amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wait, the G5 only has USB Input? Useless for the consoles then.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> Wait, the G5 only has USB Input? Useless for the consoles then.


 

It says multiplatform, so it should have an optical in to use with consoles as well.

We need more info, I hate how they just show us what they are releasing without releasing all the specs and features


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Wait, the G5 only has USB Input? Useless for the consoles then.




If it's based on the e5, then it has a mini-Toslink+3.5mm analog input (like the Recon3D USB had). The real question is if the G5 will be a Dolby (or even DTS) decoder to make good gaming use of that optical input, otherwise it's be a stereo input like 3.5mm or USB (for consoles, PC can transmit surround through USB).

[I quote Feg but address everybody, Feg knows USB can support surround from PC]


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> If it's based on the e5, then it has a mini-Toslink+3.5mm analog input (like the Recon3D USB had). The real question is if the G5 will be a Dolby (or even DTS) decoder to make good gaming use of that optical input, otherwise it's be a stereo input like 3.5mm or USB (for consoles, PC can transmit surround through USB).


 
 I really do hope they come out with something new with the G5 though Im not keeping high expectations on creative for now. But this would be something good for the those that dont want an X7 and need something with less features.


----------



## SerisJilerin

I am someone that does not like loud explosions/shots or any kind of heavy "impact" bass. But I am OK with low "environmental" rumbling bass, like this:
 https://youtu.be/w1hURW6Vxqs?t=41s
  
 I do not like jarring highs either. I used to have DT-770 Pro-80s, and I did not like their heavy bass.
  
 According to the main guide, the AD700X's are the best possible non-speakers audio solution for pure competitive FPS gaming. Is this the general consensus around here? Because I see some people disputing that assertion, and honestly I do not see a lot of people agreeing with it (many people seem to just say they are "one of the best," but not agreeing they are THE best). One person somewhere even claimed they tried the AD700X's and found them to be "dog****" for competitive gaming.
  
 Keep in mind, I do not play console games AT ALL. I am 100% a PC gamer looking for the best competitive headphones or IEMs for FPS PC Games. I will be building a new gaming PC eventually, so at that point I will be willing to get whatever source equipment is necessary to get the best gaming performance out of them.
  
 Any advice or recommendations?


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800


----------



## inseconds99

serisjilerin said:


> I am someone that does not like loud explosions/shots or any kind of heavy "impact" bass. But I am OK with low "environmental" rumbling bass, like this:
> https://youtu.be/w1hURW6Vxqs?t=41s
> 
> I do not like jarring highs either. I used to have DT-770 Pro-80s, and I did not like their heavy bass.
> ...


 
Here are some good comparison of high end headphones that I made.


----------



## vontokkerths

I tried to read as much as possible but its really hard to go through  31,734 posts. I gathered enough info to post (or so I think, lol).
  
 To my understanding to play on a PS4 I need a DAC/AMP plus a USB dongle and a modmic for whatever headphones I'll use, right?
  
 or just the amp?
  
 so wil be like this:
  
 Headphone on amp -> amp on dongle -> modmic on dongle? 
  
 I use a turtle beach stealth 400 and they serve the purpose but I want to get a bit of better sound and positioning on games.
  
 Again, I tried to read as much as possible but obviously there's stuff i left, probably important stuff.
  
 Can anyone help me out with a completely new setup?
  
 Headphones (not as important right now but I want to know how to connect everything)
 Do i need a dac as well as an amp?
 Modmic recommendations?
  
  
 Anything else of importance?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

vontokkerths said:


> I tried to read as much as possible but its really hard to go through  31,734 posts. I gathered enough info to post (or so I think, lol).
> 
> To my understanding to play on a PS4 I need a DAC/AMP plus a USB dongle and a modmic for whatever headphones I'll use, right?
> 
> ...


 
 Just read the first post of this thread.
  
 Modmic is not mandatory. Dac/amp is not mandatory.
  
 Buy a DSP (again, read the first post) then try Your current headphones with it. If You decide that it's still not good enough, *then *buy a new pair of headphones.


----------



## Blze001

There are plenty of people who are more than satisfied with the cheap Zalman mics. I only have a ModMic because the Zalman would really pick up my mechanical keyboard, so the unidirectional mic close to my mouth made sense. For a PS4, the Zalman will probably work just fine so long as you aren't looking for studio-quality sound.
  
 As far as which path to take upgrading, follow Yethal's advice. You might be surprised with how much things improve just getting a DSP.


----------



## Evshrug

For PS4, for surround, you need something to connect to the rear optical port to translate Dolby home theater surround to virtual headphone surround, and provide a more normal 3.5mm headphone jack to plug into. That thing is technically a DSP (Digital Signal Processor), DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter), and headphone amplifier, and it could be an all in one like a Turtle Beach DSS from eBay, Astro Mixamp, or Creative X7 (and hopefully the upcoming Creative G5).

I believe the stealth 400 is a wired headphone, so it can be used with the DSP deal mentioned above. I have only been able to hear the Stealth 400 from inside a GameStop, not ideal testing conditions but IMO many headphones can offer sound quality and comfort improvements.


----------



## vontokkerths

evshrug said:


> For PS4, for surround, you need something to connect to the rear optical port to translate Dolby home theater surround to virtual headphone surround, and provide a more normal 3.5mm headphone jack to plug into. That thing is technically a DSP (Digital Signal Processor), DAC (Digital to Analogue Converter), and headphone amplifier, and it could be an all in one like a Turtle Beach DSS from eBay, Astro Mixamp, or Creative X7 (and hopefully the upcoming Creative G5).
> 
> I believe the stealth 400 is a wired headphone, so it can be used with the DSP deal mentioned above. I have only been able to hear the Stealth 400 from inside a GameStop, not ideal testing conditions but IMO many headphones can offer sound quality and comfort improvements.


Pardon the question but I explicitly need a mixamp or dss? I've always been a headset guy and they always come with everything I need. The stealth 400 is a wireless headphone with aux port. Could I just buy a schiit modi and magni and stack those two together or do I need the mixamp too?to my understanding the mixamp and dac do almost the same thing, right? Pardon y ignorance in this particular subject. Thanks for the nice detailed reply


----------



## Blze001

vontokkerths said:


> Pardon the question but I explicitly need a mixamp or dss? I've always been a headset guy and they always come with everything I need. The stealth 400 is a wireless headphone with aux port. Could I just buy a schiit modi and magni and stack those two together or do I need the mixamp too?to my understanding the mixamp and dac do almost the same thing, right? Pardon y ignorance in this particular subject. Thanks for the nice detailed reply


 
  
 Only if you get the Modi Uber with an optical input.


----------



## rudyae86

vontokkerths said:


> Pardon the question but I explicitly need a mixamp or dss? I've always been a headset guy and they always come with everything I need. The stealth 400 is a wireless headphone with aux port. Could I just buy a schiit modi and magni and stack those two together or do I need the mixamp too?to my understanding the mixamp and dac do almost the same thing, right? Pardon y ignorance in this particular subject. Thanks for the nice detailed reply




First of all, what's your budget?

Second, do you know what virtual surround technology is and it's different forms? (Like DOLBY headphone or Creative's SBX)

Third, have you read the first post of the first page of this thread? Lots of info.

4th, your turtle beach headset sucks, let's just leave it at that lol ok.

I'm hoping we can try to make you understand what really is going on in this thread and what components do what and when and how.

To keep it simple, in order to get Virtual surround sound and get positional audio in games you must follow this Chain........

Headphone>>Astro Mix AMP Pro>>Cosole of choice

Or if on PC

Headphone>>Sound Card (Creative SBX or Asus DOLBY headphone.


----------



## vontokkerths

rudyae86 said:


> First of all, what's your budget?
> 
> Second, do you know what virtual surround technology is and it's different forms? (Like DOLBY headphone or Creative's SBX)
> 
> ...


 I have some knowledge of surround sound but just basic stuff (that's why I'm asking) I have read the first page. Yeah they suck lol. So now I'm getting the idea. Thanks for the patience and info. Lol  let's say budget is around 400$


----------



## SirMJC

Decided to order a pair of the new Sennheiser Game Zeros at 50 Ω, gonna have to investigate mixamps to bring it out a bit more. Seems like the last two Astro Mixamps that've come out have been pretty trash. Finding the 2011 Mixamp is near impossible haha.


----------



## Yethal

sirmjc said:


> Decided to order a pair of the new Sennheiser Game Zeros at 50 Ω, gonna have to investigate mixamps to bring it out a bit more. Seems like the last two Astro Mixamps that've come out have been pretty trash. Finding the 2011 Mixamp is near impossible haha.


 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Original-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/281730162759?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41986d2047
  
 Took me less than one minute.


----------



## jincuteguy

sirmjc said:


> Decided to order a pair of the new Sennheiser Game Zeros at 50 Ω, gonna have to investigate mixamps to bring it out a bit more. Seems like the last two Astro Mixamps that've come out have been pretty trash. Finding the 2011 Mixamp is near impossible haha.


 
 Why Senn Game Zero? It's so bad. Like you could get another headphone that is way better within the same price.  Like the Beyerdyanmic DT 990 Pro 250ohm or Philip X2.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Why Senn Game Zero? It's so bad. Like you could get another headphone that is way better within the same price.  Like the Beyerdyanmic DT 990 Pro 250ohm or Philip X2.


 
 From what I gather G4me Zero is rebranded PC360 which is just HD598 with a microphone and HD598 is pretty great with virtual surround. Unless I derped here somewhere.


----------



## burritoboy9984

yethal said:


> From what I gather G4me Zero is rebranded PC360 which is just HD598 with a microphone and HD598 is pretty great with virtual surround. Unless I derped here somewhere.




I think the G4me One is the same as the PC360. The G4me Zero is closed I believe. 

Erik


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> From what I gather G4me Zero is rebranded PC360 which is just HD598 with a microphone and HD598 is pretty great with virtual surround. Unless I derped here somewhere.


 
 For music it should be ok, but for gaming it lacks the Bass for the immersive gaming experience, like if you put the Game Zero and DT 990 Pro or Philip X2 on the table and let that guy try it out, he will see the DT 990 Pro and Philip X2 is much better for gaming.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> For music it should be ok, but for gaming it lacks the Bass for the immersive gaming experience, like if you put the Game Zero and DT 990 Pro or Philip X2 on the table and let that guy try it out, he will see the DT 990 Pro and Philip X2 is much better for gaming.


 
 Dude, lack of bass (and soundstage) is the exact reason Audio-Technica AD700 is considered to be the best gaming headphone ever created.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Dude, lack of bass (and soundstage) is the exact reason Audio-Technica AD700 is considered to be *the best gaming headphone ever created.*


 
  
 These words, I do not understand them.


----------



## SirMJC

jincuteguy said:


> Why Senn Game Zero? It's so bad. Like you could get another headphone that is way better within the same price.  Like the Beyerdyanmic DT 990 Pro 250ohm or Philip X2.


 

 I need a closed back set for late night gaming. Open back would leak too much and disturb my sleeping GF.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> These words, I do not understand them.


 
 Me neither as I have never heard them personally, that's why I said "is considered". I'm sure Mad could weigh in on this.


----------



## rudyae86

burritoboy9984 said:


> I think the G4me One is the same as the PC360. The G4me Zero is closed I believe.
> 
> Erik




Yes, G4ME One is the PC360 which is said to based off the HD558/598.

G4ME Zero is the PC350 SE which is the Hd 380 Pro, at least that's what I think it is.

I have the PC350 SE and is technically the same as G4ME Zero.

Someone said they aren't immersive and blah blah. Well to each their own but they were not meant to be immersive. The Zero is meant for competitive gaming. They still sound great even if they dont have that thumping bass. If you want thumping bass, there are other headphones that do that.


----------



## SirMJC

I should mention that I have an older pair of Sennheiser HD595's that still work wonderfully. I bought the Zeros for late night disturbance-free gaming. If I wanna hook up my 595s I just need something like the Antlion mic, I'd imagine.
  
 Am I also correct in assuming that regardless of the cans, I need a mixamp instead of a standard amp if I'm going to be chatting and listening? I don't particularly trust buying a new/used mixamp from China haha.


----------



## Yethal

sirmjc said:


> I should mention that I have an older pair of Sennheiser HD595's that still work wonderfully. I bought the Zeros for late night disturbance-free gaming. If I wanna hook up my 595s I just need something like the Antlion mic, I'd imagine.
> 
> Am I also correct in assuming that regardless of the cans, I need a mixamp instead of a standard amp if I'm going to be chatting and listening? I don't particularly trust buying a new/used mixamp from China haha.


 
 Or You could get an 2.5mm > 3.5mm adapter and buy a V-Moda BoomPro.
  
 As for the chinese Mixamps, I bought one back in 2013 and it was genuine and worked (the only con was I had to buy my own cables).


----------



## jincuteguy

sirmjc said:


> I should mention that I have an older pair of Sennheiser HD595's that still work wonderfully. I bought the Zeros for late night disturbance-free gaming. If I wanna hook up my 595s I just need something like the Antlion mic, I'd imagine.
> 
> Am I also correct in assuming that regardless of the cans, I need a mixamp instead of a standard amp if I'm going to be chatting and listening? I don't particularly trust buying a new/used mixamp from China haha.


 
 What chinese mixamp are you talking about? The only MixAmp that is on the market is from AStroGaming


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> What chinese mixamp are you talking about? The only MixAmp that is on the market is from AStroGaming


 

 There are cheap Mixamps on eBay available from China. aside from the packaging and lack of cables they're pretty neat deal.


----------



## SirMJC

jincuteguy said:


> What chinese mixamp are you talking about? The only MixAmp that is on the market is from AStroGaming


 

 There's some listings for 2011 Astro Mixamps on eBay from a seller in China. I was hesitant of buying one.
  
 If I do buy one, what cables would I need for it? Optical, USB, and some R/W cables?


----------



## lenroot77

I had the pc350 se/game zero.... They have Bass and I'd consider them immersive. They do not thump or boom, but certainly more than the 598's or ad700's. 
They seal extremely well and provide excellent isolation. The sound stage and positioning are plenty adequate as well. It's a fine choice for a closed headset.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> I had the pc350 se/game zero.... They have Bass and I'd consider them immersive. They do not thump or boom, but certainly more than the 598's or ad700's.
> They seal extremely well and provide excellent isolation. The sound stage and positioning are plenty adequate as well. It's a fine choice for a closed headset.


 
 I agree. You can think of it as a closed back HD598 but with a reduced soundstage without affecting too much the highs and mids. Its still immersive but it still leans more towards a competitive type of headset. The seal is great though it sometimes gets a bit hot since the pleather pads are.....well pleather lol.
  
 I feel like this headset is overlooked by many, especially since the HD598/ G4ME One are getting the most attention just because MLE gives it a high rating for competitive gaming.
  
 But if you dont live alone and dont want to bother others or you go to LAN parties often and need that sound isolation, than the G4ME Zeros are worth a try.


----------



## conquerator2

For anyone in doubts whether to try a planarmagnetic headphone, the 400S at 300$ is definitely a SOLID choice as a foray into planarmagnetic. Reckon would put quite a few headphones in the 500$ range to shame


----------



## Sam21

how do the 400s and 400i compare to the older 400 ?


----------



## Hansotek

sam21 said:


> how do the 400s and 400i compare to the older 400 ?


 
  
 400 - Quite boosted in the bass and lower mids. Recessed in the upper mids. Spike in the treble. Atrocious for comfort, but a fun and unique listen. The tightest and punchiest bass of the three.
  
 400i & 400S sound more or less the same as each other, but different from the original 400. - Moderately boosted bass and lower mids. Slightly relaxed upper mids, but not "recessed" like their older sibling. Much more tolerable treble. Both are also much lighter and more comfortable. They both sound a little like a poor man's HE500 to my ears... they have a similar sound sig, but don't quite have the romantic lushness that makes the HE500 special.
  
 FocusPads on the HE-400 will make it sound pretty similar to the 400i & 400S, frequency response-wise. The difference being that the HE400 will still have slightly peaky treble, you'll lose some sense of soundstage (due to the increased upper midrange presence), and the 400i & 400S might be a tiny touch more resolving. I also feel that the original 400 has a certain quickness and impact about it that makes it sound more aggressive in comparison to it's younger siblings... it has more attack to it's sound, where as the others feel like they want to be smoother.


----------



## jincuteguy

hansotek said:


> 400 - Quite boosted in the bass and lower mids. Recessed in the upper mids. Spike in the treble. Atrocious for comfort, but a fun and unique listen. The tightest and punchiest bass of the three.
> 
> 400i & 400S sound more or less the same as each other, but different from the original 400. - Moderately boosted bass and lower mids. Slightly relaxed upper mids, but not "recessed" like their older sibling. Much more tolerable treble. Both are also much lighter and more comfortable. They both sound a little like a poor man's HE500 to my ears... they have a similar sound sig, but don't quite have the romantic lushness that makes the HE500 special.
> 
> FocusPads on the HE-400 will make it sound pretty similar to the 400i & 400S, frequency response-wise. The difference being that the HE400 will still have slightly peaky treble, you'll lose some sense of soundstage (due to the increased upper midrange presence), and the 400i & 400S might be a tiny touch more resolving. I also feel that the original 400 has a certain quickness and impact about it that makes it sound more aggressive in comparison to it's younger siblings... it has more attack to it's sound, where as the others feel like they want to be smoother.


 
  
 So it's better to get the HE-500 for $500 then rather than getting the 400s for $300, it's a waste of money.


----------



## Hansotek

jincuteguy said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > 400 - Quite boosted in the bass and lower mids. Recessed in the upper mids. Spike in the treble. Atrocious for comfort, but a fun and unique listen. The tightest and punchiest bass of the three.
> ...



I think so, but FYI - there's a "used - like new" he500 for $400 on Amazon at the moment.


----------



## inseconds99

hansotek said:


> I think so, but FYI - there's a "used - like new" he500 for $400 on Amazon at the moment.




Either they sold that quick or you meant 499


----------



## jincuteguy

hansotek said:


> I think so, but FYI - there's a "used - like new" he500 for $400 on Amazon at the moment.


 
 But from most reviews that I saw, HE500 doesn't have any soundstage just like the HD650, so for gaming it's prob not good.


----------



## Evshrug

vontokkerths said:


> Pardon the question but I explicitly need a mixamp or dss? I've always been a headset guy and they always come with everything I need. The stealth 400 is a wireless headphone with aux port. Could I just buy a schiit modi and magni and stack those two together or do I need the mixamp too?to my understanding the mixamp and dac do almost the same thing, right? Pardon y ignorance in this particular subject. Thanks for the nice detailed reply




You could skip the DSP part if you don't want surround. The Modi would fulfil the DAC part (easier to connect with optical, not sure if the PS4 USB audio supports a Schiit) or any other DAC with an optical input. IMO, DAC upgrades make a smaller difference than gaining surround sound, so I'd easily pick a cheap DSP over an expensive DAC (though give me both and I'm a happy camper... Probably going to see if I can get ahold of Creative's Upcoming G5 DSP, right now I love Creative's X7 but I can make use of every single one of it's features except I don't care for it's microphone).


----------



## GVNMllN

evshrug said:


> Ok, a good idea not to then. Btw, for anyone else, it looks like the review was written in German, so hopefully you can read that or Google translate it.
> 
> A while back, we had a guy who liked his DSS 2 very much and figured out how to mod it to a line-out signal, but I haven't seen him in about a year. Basically, the DSS2 was very decent with low hiss and good technical qualities and DDL decoding, but instead of Dolby Headphone for surround re-processing it used a different headphone algorithm by Cirrus Logic, and you could adjust the angles of the speakers. Seemed promising but for $80 I never bought it for myself.




Hey Ev
I'd be interested in reading about that. 
Can you easily point me in the general direction? (Member Name?)
A search isn't narrowing it down.


----------



## Hansotek

inseconds99 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I think so, but FYI - there's a "used - like new" he500 for $400 on Amazon at the moment.
> ...


 
  
 Those sold, apparently, but there's now a "Good" condition HE500 on there for $374.99 through Amazon Warehouse Deals.


----------



## Hansotek

jincuteguy said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I think so, but FYI - there's a "used - like new" he500 for $400 on Amazon at the moment.
> ...


 
  
 I wouldn't say "no soundstage" I'd say it's medium sized in stock configuration, but you can expand it pretty significantly in about 15 minutes flat with a pair of tin snips and a wire mesh trash can:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/619447/hifiman-regrilling-mod
  
 FWIW, it's 3d imaging capability is far better than the HD650 (I own both). I thought the sound was great for gaming, the main drawback (IMO) is the weight. When I'm sitting up straight at my desk, it doesn't bother me at all. If you exhibit poor posture when you're gaming (like I do) it can get a little heavy on you. Overall, I still find the sound to be quite superior to any of the 400 models.


----------



## inseconds99

Just purchased the MA900's after much deliberation and I will post some comparisons to some other headphones I've owned/own after they come in. I had a choice between the AKG 7XX or the MA900's and I chose the Sony's because they were for sale through a third party but fulfilled by amazon. If I don't like them I can return them through Amazon which was the deciding deal. I am really excited to try the 900's and if they are as great and as light and comfortable as everyone says they are I might purchase a Mod Mic and make them my new full time gaming headphones.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Deciding between the K7XX and MA900 on comfort, of all things?
  
 Neither one's going to disappoint, that's for sure. (Seriously, we're talking comfort kings here when it comes to readily-available headphones that don't require special amps.) The MA900 might be a tad lighter, but the earcups are smaller. Still big enough for me, but your head and ear size could still swing things in favor of one of them.
  
 Sound signature would probably be the real deciding factor in that comparison. MA900 has stronger mids, K7XX has stronger treble, and both have a fairly present bass.


----------



## inseconds99

namelesspfg said:


> Deciding between the K7XX and MA900 on comfort, of all things?
> 
> Neither one's going to disappoint, that's for sure. (Seriously, we're talking comfort kings here when it comes to readily-available headphones that don't require special amps.) The MA900 might be a tad lighter, but the earcups are smaller. Still big enough for me, but your head and ear size could still swing things in favor of one of them.
> 
> Sound signature would probably be the real deciding factor in that comparison. MA900 has stronger mids, K7XX has stronger treble, and both have a fairly present bass.




I'm overly familiar on the reviews and the sound signatures of each I have owned and do own very high end headphones and have purchased and returned many of the "comfort kings" as they all have their share of issues on my head. These 2 headphones are ones I haven't tried and the opportunity came up for me to get one or the other today. I jumped on the ma900 as this was the first time I saw the headphones at a cheap price fulfilled by Amazon so I would have that 30 day return policy and prime shipping. My hd800's are great but they have been causing me neck pain recently from their weight on my head wearing them all day.


----------



## Sam21

out of all the characteristics a gaming headphone should have, comfort ultimately becomes the most important one in practice.


----------



## NamelessPFG

inseconds99 said:


> I'm overly familiar on the reviews and the sound signatures of each I have owned and do own very high end headphones and have purchased and returned many of the "comfort kings" as they all have their share of issues on my head. These 2 headphones are ones I haven't tried and the opportunity came up for me to get one or the other today. I jumped on the ma900 as this was the first time I saw the headphones at a cheap price fulfilled by Amazon so I would have that 30 day return policy and prime shipping. My hd800's are great but they have been causing me neck pain recently from their weight on my head wearing them all day.


 
  
 Neck pain? Reminds me of how I nailed the deal on my first "beater" Stax Lambda set years ago; the owner had a neck injury that made even light headphones like those painful to wear after a while.
  
 It's definitely tricky business to try these things out without buying them outright first, that's for sure. It's how Head-Fi effectively kills my wallet.

 I could repair some of the financial damage, but I'd have to line up buyers for my own K7XX and MA900 first, which isn't always easy. No wonder you ordered the MA900 from a place with a good return policy!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here I am, hardly caring about audio anymore, just desperately wishing I could afford another car since mine went kaput.

X2 gets early morning use though.


----------



## inseconds99

namelesspfg said:


> Neck pain? Reminds me of how I nailed the deal on my first "beater" Stax Lambda set years ago; the owner had a neck injury that made even light headphones like those painful to wear after a while.
> 
> It's definitely tricky business to try these things out without buying them outright first, that's for sure. It's how Head-Fi effectively kills my wallet.
> 
> ...




Exactly, buying something with the thought of "oh I'll just sell it later if I don't like it" doesn't always work. I'd rather buy an item with a return policy and try it and get all my money back. That was the deciding factor between the ma900 and the 7xx. It's pretty much been how I've purchased headphones from the beginning as the hobby will become a black hole on your wallet.

Let's just hope the buck stops at the ma900 as I'm coming down to the wire on finding great sounding all day comfort headphones for gaming. Apparently my head is misshaped and my neck is more injured then I thought lol.


----------



## raband

mad lust envy said:


> Here I am, hardly caring about audio anymore, just desperately wishing I could afford another car since mine went kaput.
> 
> X2 gets early morning use though.


 
  
 Amazing how quickly priorities/preferences can change - and what you get enjoyment from shifts.
  
 I know myself that when I'm enjoying audio it's a pretty good sign that "I'm in a good place"
  
 When I'm enjoying metal music "I'm in a bad place"
  
 When I'm enjoying rock "I'm normal"
  
 When I'm trying to sort out surround sound in games "I'm searching for the next goal"
  
 When I'm looking at the next audio purchase and chasing the next fix - it's the perfect storm and I really should have my credit card cut and amazon account blocked.
  
 When my car is kaput - then yeah, my ears get a break.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Here I am, hardly caring about audio anymore, just desperately wishing I could afford another car since mine went kaput.
> 
> X2 gets early morning use though.


 
 Sorry to hear that man, hope all turns out well.
  
  
 Audiophile gear is expensive and not always worth the costs involved. Its geared towards people who are a little more well off or at least have a secured high source of income. I know you are a long time member of the community and highly regarded for your knowledge and I don't need to explain this to you. But for anyone else reading this who is just entering this space, my recommendation is to be cautious as it is an expensive hobby.
  
 Don't become consumed by the hype of people on a forum or a YouTube video. The there are more important things in life then having a high end headphone rig. Now obviously if you can afford it while balancing your personal life correctly, go for it. Far too often I see equipment being recommended to people that has huge price tags when I can guarantee 75-90% (my educated guess, not fact) or more of the members on this forum could never tell the difference in blind testing between a $500 amp/dac and a $3000 amp/dac or stock cables vs. $500 custom cables.  YMMV but this space reminds me of the food industry with the organic and non gmo labels popping up everywhere with huge price tags attached to them with next to no benefits to the consumer (depending on the item).


----------



## SirMJC

Thought I'd give some impressions on the revised Game Zeros that Sennheiser just put out.
  
 +Higher volumes when connected solely to X1/PS4 controller
 +Somewhat deeper bases
 +Detachable cables
 +They packed in a 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable
  
 -Bass still somewhat lacking, although that's expected I suppose
 -Still could use an amp or mixamp to bring out full potential
  
 I've got a 2011 Mixamp coming that should hopefully drive it a bit more. Looking forward to trying it out when it comes, but it definitely does a solid job without an amp if you're strapped for cash IMO. (I'm no audiophile by any stretch, so my opinion could be discounted)


----------



## jincuteguy

sirmjc said:


> Thought I'd give some impressions on the revised Game Zeros that Sennheiser just put out.
> 
> +Higher volumes when connected solely to X1/PS4 controller
> +Somewhat deeper bases
> ...


 
  
 Where did you get the new Game Zero? And do they have the new Game One also?


----------



## techguy90

I'm starting to give up hope that I'll find a set of headphones, better than my PC363Ds, for gaming and music.
  
 I've tried:
 Sennheiser Game One & Game Zero = uncomfortable clamping force and slightly worse sound quality
 AKG K712 Pro = Not enough padding (my ear rests on the driver), headband mechanism is also uncomfortable and feels cheap
 Sennheiser HD650 = Amazing for music...but not made for gaming at all.
 Beyerdynamic DT 990 Premium 250 Ohm = uncomfortable, too small for my ears/head. Didn't test the sound.
  
 And various other "gaming" headsets from Astro, Razer,etc.  
  
 What I love about the PC363Ds, in terms of comfort, are the shape and padding over the ears and head. The sound quality is pretty good for gaming, but pretty generic for music. After listening to the HD650s, I want more for the music side, but I don't want to sacrifice soundstage. I don't want the "scratchy, sharp, ear shattering" gunshot sound, that I get with the HD650, in FPS games like CSGO or BF4.
  
  
 Is it worth getting the Shure 1840s? They're about the only cans I haven't tried. I was also looking at the ath-ad900x from Audio Technica, but I'm seeing the perfect circle ear pads as a possible negative toward comfort. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  
 I'm open to any suggestions at this point, and price really isn't a concern. Also, I'm using the Creative Sound Blaster ZxR to drive them. I tried the Xonar Essence, and found it a bit of a disappointment.


----------



## Alan Torres

Is it possible to attach a mic to the AKG K612 Pro's for gaming?


----------



## AxelCloris

alan torres said:


> Is it possible to attach a mic to the AKG K612 Pro's for gaming?


 

 You can use an attachable boom mic like the Antlion ModMic or a simple clip-on mic.


----------



## jincuteguy

techguy90 said:


> I'm starting to give up hope that I'll find a set of headphones, better than my PC363Ds, for gaming and music.
> 
> I've tried:
> Sennheiser Game One & Game Zero = uncomfortable clamping force and slightly worse sound quality
> ...


 
  
 You don't wanna go with the Audio Technica AD900X, it will make your ear bleed and has no bass.  Most like those Sennheisers.
 What about the P hilip X2? give that a try, it's only $300 on amazon, just buy it and try it out.


----------



## Blze001

techguy90 said:


> I'm starting to give up hope that I'll find a set of headphones, better than my PC363Ds, for gaming and music.
> 
> I've tried:
> Sennheiser Game One & Game Zero = uncomfortable clamping force and slightly worse sound quality
> ...


 
  
 Is there any reason why you can't just use both? The 363D when gaming, 650 when listening to music?
  
 The AKG Q701s have angled pads, might keep the drivers off your ears (they'll fit 712s)... and there are a few DIY foam mods for headband comfort.
  
 Not Shure if the 1840's are good gaming cans or not. (C'mon, the pun was there for the taking)


----------



## Malinkadink

I have a the newest mixamp pro from astro and i absolutely love the dolby surround it offers as well as the nifty equalizer presets. However i'm having an issue of white noise creeping into the fold when the volume knob on the mixamp is 50%+. I read that this is normal, but it really is annoying to hear that hissing sound when theres no constant audio going to drown it out.
  
  
 The guide details adding an amp to help achieve greater volume levels, but it also says to turn the mixamp to max and simply use the amp to control volume levels to fit your liking. This could only make me assume that i would still hear the white noise and more so because if i put it to 100% i can even hear the noise over low volume audio that may be playing.
  
 Would i be able to leave the mixamp say around 40% where the white noise is completely gone and use the amp to give me greater volume while remaining at 40% on the mixamp or would that not work since the mixamp is essentially the dictator of the volume since it gets the output from audio source first before reaching the amp.


----------



## rudyae86

techguy90 said:


> I'm starting to give up hope that I'll find a set of headphones, better than my PC363Ds, for gaming and music.
> 
> I've tried:
> Sennheiser Game One & Game Zero = uncomfortable clamping force and slightly worse sound quality
> ...


 
 I kind of want to say you are doing it all wrong lol.
  
 PC360/363D is the G4ME ONE. Though there is a possibility that the 363D could be a refined PC 360 but nobody is really sure since a PC363D nowadays cost like 300 bucks because its discontinued and the PC360 as well.
  
 AKG K712....not sure but my K7XX has enough padding to not touch my ears but I dont know how big your ears are. These are probably one of the most comofrtable headphones next to my X1 and X2. Maybe you should try the X2, they complement my K7XX and have a very fun sound signature.
  
 Honestly, im using the X2 more than the K7XX but I usually use the K7XX when doing heavy competitive gaming because of its wider soundstage and nice treble range.
  
 How about trying the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro? They are solid cans for an immersive experience while giving you good sense of directionality. I have them and like them but dont use them much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

malinkadink said:


> I have a the newest mixamp pro from astro and i absolutely love the dolby surround it offers as well as the nifty equalizer presets. However i'm having an issue of white noise creeping into the fold when the volume knob on the mixamp is 50%+. I read that this is normal, but it really is annoying to hear that hissing sound when theres no constant audio going to drown it out.
> 
> 
> The guide details adding an amp to help achieve greater volume levels, but it also says to turn the mixamp to max and simply use the amp to control volume levels to fit your liking. This could only make me assume that i would still hear the white noise and more so because if i put it to 100% i can even hear the noise over low volume audio that may be playing.
> ...




No. The noise is embedded into the signal. You can have the Mixamp at 10%, and attach an external amp, and the noise will still be the same once you achieve the same volume level as when you use the Mixamp alone. If you want less hiss, you should've went for the 2010-2011 generation Mixamps. You can also get a Creative Recon USB or Creative X7 if you want something similar to the Dolby headphone surround with basically no hiss whatsoever.


----------



## techguy90

jincuteguy said:


> You don't wanna go with the Audio Technica AD900X, it will make your ear bleed and has no bass.  Most like those Sennheisers.
> What about the P hilip X2? give that a try, it's only $300 on amazon, just buy it and try it out.


 
  
 Thanks for the heads up, I was just about to order the AD900X before I read this. Is this the right X2? ( http://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2-27-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00O2Y2MZG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1439650252&sr=8-2&keywords=x2 ) It looks good, but the shape and small padding in the images makes it seem like it would be uncomfortable. Reminds me of a pair of ath-m50s I had mixed with the 990s.
  


blze001 said:


> Is there any reason why you can't just use both? The 363D when gaming, 650 when listening to music?
> 
> The AKG Q701s have angled pads, might keep the drivers off your ears (they'll fit 712s)... and there are a few DIY foam mods for headband comfort.
> 
> Not Shure if the 1840's are good gaming cans or not. (C'mon, the pun was there for the taking)


 
  
 True, that was a pretty good pun.
  
 I thought about keeping them both and swapping between them, but if there's a chance I can get a really nice headset that has the best of both worlds, i'd want to save for those.
  


rudyae86 said:


> I kind of want to say you are doing it all wrong lol.
> 
> PC360/363D is the G4ME ONE. Though there is a possibility that the 363D could be a refined PC 360 but nobody is really sure since a PC363D nowadays cost like 300 bucks because its discontinued and the PC360 as well.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would agree; I'm probably doing this all wrong. I only spent a few days researching different brands/models and then started ordering and testing at random. 
  
 That's almost exactly the same thing that Sennheiser support told me (btw, contacting them for info on a product and getting a real response and not a copy/paste is refeshing). They said everything from the 598 and below is essentially the same. My headset is basically a PC360 with a small usb sound card included.
  
 I guess I just have a big head lol. It's not that my ears completely rest on the driver, just slightly. I'm kind of ocd about that though.


----------



## Alan Torres

Great! Thank you


----------



## Evshrug

gvnmlln said:


> Hey Ev
> I'd be interested in reading about that.
> Can you easily point me in the general direction? (Member Name?)
> A search isn't narrowing it down.



I think he was NorthI95... Not sure though. Let me look.

Edit:
Here's one back and forth between me and i95North a few years back. There's some other relevant posts from around that time.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/8640_30#post_8807844


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, I somehow managed to find my looooong lost Xonar U3 in a clothes drawer, lol. Now I can compare the U3 to the X7 directly. The U3 sends Dolby Digital straight from the PC to the X7, and I feel the X7 handles that better than the USB connection.


----------



## fritzritz

Hello! I have a general question that I also posted on the headphones subreddit. Essentially, someone was saying that for gaming, $300 headphones will provide little benefit over $50 headphones. I would like a second opinion if possible. Here is the link to the person's response:

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3gu4o4/daily_headphone_purchase_advice_thread/cu37uxp?context=3


----------



## lenroot77

fritzritz said:


> Hello! I have a general question that I also posted on the headphones subreddit. Essentially, someone was saying that for gaming, $300 headphones will provide little benefit over $50 headphones. I would like a second opinion if possible. Here is the link to the person's response:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3gu4o4/daily_headphone_purchase_advice_thread/cu37uxp?context=3




Most here on this thread will not agree with the above subreddit. Do u need to spend 300? Absolutely not there are plenty of options around 100 that open your ears to new sound in gaming. I'd suggest reading the first page of this thread there is more than enough info to help u make a decision. This is "THE" thread on the Internet. If u need help making a specific choice there are several people with loads of experience here to guide u.


----------



## PurpleAngel

fritzritz said:


> Hello! I have a general question that I also posted on the headphones subreddit. Essentially, someone was saying that for gaming, $300 headphones will provide little benefit over $50 headphones. I would like a second opinion if possible. Here is the link to the person's response:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3gu4o4/daily_headphone_purchase_advice_thread/cu37uxp?context=3


 
  
 Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) headphones are popular FPS gaming headphones and they sell (new) for $130, guess that's the sweet spot.


----------



## Yethal

fritzritz said:


> Hello! I have a general question that I also posted on the headphones subreddit. Essentially, someone was saying that for gaming, $300 headphones will provide little benefit over $50 headphones. I would like a second opinion if possible. Here is the link to the person's response:
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3gu4o4/daily_headphone_purchase_advice_thread/cu37uxp?context=3


 
 Sounds like the person that wrote the response haven't heard any 300$ headphones.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> So, I somehow managed to find my looooong lost Xonar U3 in a clothes drawer, lol. Now I can compare the U3 to the X7 directly. The U3 sends Dolby Digital straight from the PC to the X7, and I feel the X7 handles that better than the USB connection.


 
  
 But doesn't the U3 connect to the PC via USB already?


----------



## fritzritz

lenroot77 said:


> Most here on this thread will not agree with the above subreddit. Do u need to spend 300? Absolutely not there are plenty of options around 100 that open your ears to new sound in gaming. I'd suggest reading the first page of this thread there is more than enough info to help u make a decision. This is "THE" thread on the Internet. If u need help making a specific choice there are several people with loads of experience here to guide u.




Thanks for replying, this site is great!. 

I am definitely fine with spending $300 to get a full gaming audio experience, audio is my favorite part of games and I'm willing to budget more for it. I am also fine with spending less if that also suffices, I don't always believe that spending more money means guranteed improvements.

Unfortunately, I don't have an audio store near me to try out headphones directly so when I get responses like I did in the subreddit I get worried haha but every response to my post here and in another thread all say otherwise which is reassuring.

I would like a high quality and balanced audio experience for casual and competitive gaming. I think I am looking between the AKG612 or Fedelio X2.


----------



## Blze001

fritzritz said:


> Thanks for replying, this site is great!.
> 
> I am definitely fine with spending $300 to get a full gaming audio experience, audio is my favorite part of games and I'm willing to budget more for it. I am also fine with spending less if that also suffices, I don't always believe that spending more money means guranteed improvements.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The K612 is going to have amazing soundstage and be very analytical, while the X2 is more "fun" and has much more bass. Also, being 30 ohms,  the X2 doesn't need an amp like the 120 ohm AKGs do.
  
 I'd say the Q/K701s are a more accurate cross-shop with the X2... still need good amping to get the most from 'em, but they'll pass even the 612s in terms of soundstage.
  
 Nothing in the open-back AKG lineup are going to have much bass out of the box, you'll need some EQ magic to get the low end.


----------



## fritzritz

blze001 said:


> The K612 is going to have amazing soundstage and be very analytical, while the X2 is more "fun" and has much more bass. Also, being 30 ohms,  the X2 doesn't need an amp like the 120 ohm AKGs do.
> 
> I'd say the Q/K701s are a more accurate cross-shop with the X2... still need good amping to get the most from 'em, but they'll pass even the 612s in terms of soundstage.
> 
> Nothing in the open-back AKG lineup are going to have much bass out of the box, you'll need some EQ magic to get the low end.



 


Great information for the back pocket, thanks!

I have all of my audio inputs going through an onkyo tx-nr636 AV receiver and plan to have the headphones plugged into the receiver as well. Does the receiver take away the need for investing in a PC video card or headphone amp? I assume it does based on my initial research but I am still a little unsure.


----------



## Blze001

fritzritz said:


> Great information for the back pocket, thanks!
> 
> I have all of my audio inputs going through an onkyo tx-nr636 AV receiver and plan to have the headphones plugged into the receiver as well. Does the receiver take away the need for investing in a PC video card or headphone amp? I assume it does based on my initial research but I am still a little unsure.


 
  
 I'm not familiar with that one, but I'd doubt the headphone jack has much amplification if any, A/V receivers are generally meant for speakers. If your motherboard has an optical out, it'll work just fine as a DAC (which is all a soundcard is), but you'll probably still need a headphone amp for the AKGs.


----------



## lenroot77

blze001 said:


> I'm not familiar with that one, but I'd doubt the headphone jack has much amplification if any, A/V receivers are generally meant for speakers. If your motherboard has an optical out, it'll work just fine as a DAC (which is all a soundcard is), but you'll probably still need a headphone amp for the AKGs.




U should have no problem driving the x2's, im not entirely sure about the akg's as they are typically hungry despite their lower impedance ratings. Your receiver will be fine providing u only want stereo sound. If I recall correctly the newer onkoyos do not have Dolby headphone.


----------



## fritzritz

lenroot77 said:


> U should have no problem driving the x2's, im not entirely sure about the akg's as they are typically hungry despite their lower impedance ratings. Your receiver will be fine providing u only want stereo sound. If I recall correctly the newer onkoyos do not have Dolby headphone.


 
  
 Thanks for the info.  What would be the best way to get dolby headphone while still using an AV receiver that does not have it?  Or would it be better to not go through the AV reciever at all if I am going for dolby headphone?

 I am still doing my research but if you have any recommendations for dolby headphone enabling devices, feel free to share.


----------



## Blze001

fritzritz said:


> Thanks for the info.  What would be the best way to get dolby headphone while still using an AV receiver that does not have it?  Or would it be better to not go through the AV reciever at all if I am going for dolby headphone?
> 
> I am still doing my research but if you have any recommendations for dolby headphone enabling devices, feel free to share.


 
  
 If you're wanting Dolby for headphones, you're probably better off getting a soundcard/usb DAC that supports it, then send that to an amp if needed.
  
 Does your motherboard have an optical TOSLINK output on it (I think only budget boards don't these days, but I may be wrong)? If so, the FiiO D07 is a pretty decent little Dolby-capable DAC, and it'll only set you back about $50 on Amazon. Not gonna blow your socks off, but a solid starting point.
  
 That said, it's worth noting most games achieve positional audio with stereo signals. Makes sense when you think about it, we listen in stereo after all.


----------



## mindbomb

fritzritz said:


> Thanks for the info.  What would be the best way to get dolby headphone while still using an AV receiver that does not have it?  Or would it be better to not go through the AV reciever at all if I am going for dolby headphone?
> 
> I am still doing my research but if you have any recommendations for dolby headphone enabling devices, feel free to share.


 
 if it has optical in, you can use the optical output of an asus xonar dgx.


----------



## silver21

Hello for movies and games, to buy: audio technica m50x or beyerdynamic dt770 250 ohm _ ??_
  
 With: _FiiO E10 or _Fiio E11K _or _Creative Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 or Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> But doesn't the U3 connect to the PC via USB already?




You missed the point.

I can send the X7 a Dolby Digital signal via SPDIF, which I feel it handles better than the X7 getting the signal from USB. In my example, the U3 is connected to the PC via USB, which then the U3 send a Dolby Digital signal out to the X7 via SPDIF. I can then easily toggle between a vanilla Dolby Digital signal, and Dolby Headphone directly to the X7. While sending Dolby Digital, I can turn on SBX on the X7. When sending DH, I can turn OFF SBX. This makes it easy to test between DH and SBX atthe touch of (2) buttons.

In my opinion, the X7 does its PC gaming surround better through spdif than from USB. IF my PC's optical out wasn't limited to 2 channel stereo, i wouldn't need the U3 in my case.


----------



## Malinkadink

mad lust envy said:


> No. The noise is embedded into the signal. You can have the Mixamp at 10%, and attach an external amp, and the noise will still be the same once you achieve the same volume level as when you use the Mixamp alone. If you want less hiss, you should've went for the 2010-2011 generation Mixamps. You can also get a Creative Recon USB or Creative X7 if you want something similar to the Dolby headphone surround with basically no hiss whatsoever.


 
 What about the turtle beach DSS2? I see people saying the sound quality is better with it, but i'm not sure if it starts having a lot of white noise at higher volumes like the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DSS2 uses some other virtual surround that I haven't heard, but I'm betting Tb went with because it was cheaper to use than licensing Dolby Headphone, which makes me assume the DSS2 won't sound as good as the original


----------



## Malinkadink

mad lust envy said:


> DSS2 uses some other virtual surround that I haven't heard, but I'm betting Tb went with because it was cheaper to use than licensing Dolby Headphone, which makes me assume the DSS2 won't sound as good as the original


 
 http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Force-Surround-Processor-63043006306200/dp/B006W41X36
  
 They're still dolby


----------



## PurpleAngel

fritzritz said:


> blze001 said:
> 
> 
> > The K612 is going to have amazing soundstage and be very analytical, while the X2 is more "fun" and has much more bass. Also, being 30 ohms,  the X2 doesn't need an amp like the 120 ohm AKGs do.
> ...


 
  
 I'm fairly sure the Onkyo does not have Dolby Headphone.....but you could get a low cost sound card, like the Xonar DG or DGX, for your PC.
 The DG/DGX can process Dolby Headphone, then send the signal over to the Onkyo (analog or digital).


----------



## NamelessPFG

Sadly, receivers haven't had honest-to-goodness Dolby Headphone for a few generations.
  
 But looking up the Onkyo TX-NR636 quickly reveals that it's one of the recent Dolby Atmos-enabled receivers, which makes me wonder how it'll handle Atmos content mixing through the headphone-out. Time to flip through the manual-

 "If you selected any other listening mode than Pure Audio (European, Australian and Asian models), Stereo, Mono and Direct, connecting headphones will switch the listening mode to Stereo."

 OH, COME ON! YOU BLEW IT, ONKYO!
  
 Also, don't underestimate the headphone-outs of AVRs just because they're meant for speakers. They tend to be pretty powerful, certainly enough for a typical AKG 7xx set. The main issue's just that you don't get any sort of surround processing out of it unless the receiver explicitly advertises having a Dolby Headphone mode or something similar.


----------



## Blze001

malinkadink said:


> What about the turtle beach DSS2? I see people saying the sound quality is better with it, but i'm not sure if it starts having a lot of white noise at higher volumes like the mixamp.


 
  
 The DSS2 is what I use in my setup. I haven't noticed any white noise at normal listening volumes (except with Inquisition... and the pitch changes depending on what's on the screen, it's really weird). That said, I don't use the DTS or whatever surround it has, I mainly use it for the bass boost, it does an excellent job of giving my 701s some nice low end.
  


> Originally Posted by *silver21*
> 
> Hello for movies and games, to buy: audio technica m50x or beyerdynamic dt770 250 ohm  _??_
> 
> With: _FiiO E10 or_ Fiio E11K _or_ Creative Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 or Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D??


 
  
 DT770 + FiiO E10 would be a solid combo.


----------



## fritzritz

namelesspfg said:


> Sadly, receivers haven't had honest-to-goodness Dolby Headphone for a few generations.
> 
> But looking up the Onkyo TX-NR636 quickly reveals that it's one of the recent Dolby Atmos-enabled receivers, which makes me wonder how it'll handle Atmos content mixing through the headphone-out. Time to flip through the manual-
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah I found the same when I did my own research.
  
 NOTE: I am a console gamer and would really like to play with virtual surround.
  
 I am able to follow what MLE has had to say about console gaming setups, I am just still confused how an AV Reciever comes into play...if it should at all (to be honest, I never anticipated wanting to get a headset or I would have gotten an AVR with dolby headphone ...I figured I should try to leverage my AVR if possible).  I guess I see the AVR as a potential external amp for the headphones....am I wrong here?
  
 So, for discussion sake, would it make sense to use the AVR at all if I plan to use something like an astro mixamp?  Would it benefit to have the AVR in between the headset and mixamp at all?  I think I am leaning towards a Fidelio X2 with a Boompro mic.  I don't think the X2's even really need an amp but it wouldn't hurt  Unless I am missing something, I don't see how it is even feasible to use the AVR with all of those components.
  
 The AVR also has an optical in...not sure if that would change the setup at all.
  
 I am trying to diagram it all out but I keep confusing myself, not sure how to incorporate the Boompro properly:


----------



## Evshrug

blze001 said:


> I'm not familiar with that one, but I'd doubt the headphone jack has much amplification if any, A/V receivers are generally meant for speakers. If your motherboard has an optical out, it'll work just fine as a DAC (which is all a soundcard is), but you'll probably still need a headphone amp for the AKGs.



I would disagree with many of these statements and feel there are some errors also in your assumptions.

If fritzfritz wants a balanced sound, the K612 is quite balanced among all the frequencies (I own one, it's more balanced than the Q701, K7xx, or k712, though those are slightly more refined), while the X2 has more "fun" in having more bass and treble and a little less mids than neutral.

Receivers either have dedicated headphone Amps (like my Yamaha, haven't checked out Onkyo) or they use the powerful speaker amp, with resistors to keep from blowing out your headphones. That's why some receivers have really high output impedance. Usually they sound fine, and have lots of "juice," but also some headphones might sound weird with the high-output impedance. AKG full-sized headphones are one of the ones that are very tolerant of different output impedances, and the K612 is especially good at dampening signal noise and output impedance variances because it has relatively low sensitivity and 120 ohms impedance of it's own. Practical example: my friend's tube amp makes a whining sound with his K712 (62 ohm impedance), while it sounds fine on my K612. If you have a receiver for your amp, the K612 will probably be the better choice.

If you connect your receiver via HDMI or Optical to your game console or PC, you can hear sounds from either source. HDMI preferred. You could also get a cheap Asus U3 and connect the optical out from that to your Receiver, and thus get Dolby Headphone surround processing in that setup. You wouldn't like using the U3 on it's own, the DAC and amp have distortion, weak power, and low detail, so better to just output optical from the U3 to something else.

There are many other good options in line with the K612 and X2, just those are recent ones with great above-average performance within their respective sound signatures.




malinkadink said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Force-Surround-Processor-63043006306200/dp/B006W41X36
> 
> They're still dolby




There is Dolby Digital Live (DDL) encoding, an Dolby Headphone decoding/processing. The DSS2 has DDL, but the headphone processing is an algorithm by Cirrus Logic.


----------



## Blze001

evshrug said:


> Receivers either have dedicated headphone Amps (like my Yamaha, haven't checked out Onkyo) or they use the powerful speaker amp, with resistors to keep from blowing out your headphones. That's why some receivers have really high output impedance.


 
  
 I looked up the Onkyo's user's manual online to check, they don't list anything beyond "it has a headphone jack".
  
 If it was any good, wouldn't they say so?


----------



## Evshrug

FritzFritz,
Basically, XBox One is annoying when it comes to microphone setups, LOL! If you're gonna use a boompro, it's easiest just to plug everything into a Mixamp (skip out on the AVR). However, it is possible that Onkyo has their own headphone surround processing in there, converting surround to a stereo mix meant to make headphones sound like surround. My Yamaha does, I know Sony and Denon do too, they just don't use Dolby Headphone specifically.


----------



## fritzritz

Evshrug,
 Thanks for all the info, very appreciated, the XBox One is a little frustrating.  I am hoping that the new controllers that will be coming with a 3.5mm stereo jack will make things easier in the future (specifically the new elite controller). 
  
 I am going to continue my research, I had no idea I was going to get in the headphone game when I set up my entertainment center a year ago....there is so much to learn!  Glad to hear you had a good experience with the K612s, they are on my short list as well.


----------



## Evshrug

blze001 said:


> I looked up the Onkyo's user's manual online to check, they don't list anything beyond "it has a headphone jack".
> 
> If it was any good, wouldn't they say so?



Maybe not as good as a Liquid Crimson, but it won't necessarily be BAD either. Worst case scenario is it could have an absurdly high output impedance, but some people are big proponents of buying antique AVRs for amping.

TL;DR
Manual blurb doesn't necessarily mean it's good/bad, not the best amp but only through trying will you be able to know if it satisfies.


----------



## Evshrug

fritzritz said:


> Evshrug,
> Thanks for all the info, very appreciated, the XBox One is a little frustrating.  I am hoping that the new controllers that will be coming with a 3.5mm stereo jack will make things easier in the future (specifically the new elite controller).
> 
> I am going to continue my research, I had no idea I was going to get in the headphone game when I set up my entertainment center a year ago....there is so much to learn!  Glad to hear you had a good experience with the K612s, they are on my short list as well.




Yeah, for future research, I'd say look at 
"analytical" competitive options like Phillips SPH9500, Audio Technica AD700, Beyerdynamic DT880, 
"balanced" options like Sennheiser HD558, HD598, AKG K612, K7XX, Sony MA900,
"fun" or colored headphones like Phillips X1, X2, HiFiman HE400, HE400s

And some closed headphones I don't know much about but are often mentioned: Soundmagic, Mr. speakers Mad Dogs, Fostex HP600, etc.

Most of these have gaming reviews on this guide, and we've had a lot of discussion in the thread comments over the years too.


----------



## inseconds99

Got my MA900's in, getting used to their sound which is soooo much different then my HD800's (obviously). Love how light the headphone is and how light the cable is. Dislike that my ears touch ever so faintly on the inside. So far I can tolerate it though as the headphone nearly disappears on my head.


----------



## Evshrug

I could feel the cloth touch my ears too... But it never annoyed me like on-ear headphones. The soundstage is MASSIVE. The sub-base and super treble regions are a bit rolled off though. That is maybe less exciting for a movie, but on the positive it's fatigue-free for long gaming sessions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bear in mind, you WANT the drivers to touch your ears for their optimal sound quality. It's more or less designed that way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

http://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Converter-Adapter-Transceiver/dp/B0085HOM4K

Was thinking about one of these for my KSC35s. I'd just wrap the KSC35's cable to the Receiver or something and keep it in my work shirt pocket...

edit: Hmm, I see issues about a second delay, and then there is the little problem of... volume control. Damn.

May contact Creative to see if they'd like to send out the Soundblaster Jam for review. It's cheap, wireless, and the design reminds me of the Ultrasone 15 and 15G.


----------



## octiceps

Am I correct in assuming that, generally speaking, headphones with angled drivers which sit further from the ears have a wider soundstage?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, but the M900 is not a standard headphone. The design is VERY elaborate and specific. Only a few other headphones (mainly Sony's older MDR-F1) uses a similar technical design.

For example, stuffing the pads on the MA900 so that they don't touch your ears will result in a pretty noticeable SQ loss. Either accept the MA900 as a partial on ear, or prepare to lose some audio fidelity.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ok, so I assume the 

Cross-platform connectivity

  
 on the G5 page means optical in. I don't see any other way other than this thing to dissapoint and be USB only.


----------



## NamelessPFG

At least the MA900 doesn't irritate my ears (pinnae if we're being pedantic) where they touch, probably due to the soft padding over the drivers.
  
 That's more than I can say for a few other cans. SR-Gamma without replacement padding in the cups? NEVER AGAIN.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Converter-Adapter-Transceiver/dp/B0085HOM4K
> 
> Was thinking about one of these for my KSC35s. I'd just wrap the KSC35's cable to the Receiver or something and keep it in my work shirt pocket...
> 
> ...


 
 Try Jabra BT3030.
   
  
 Quote:


fegefeuer said:


> Ok, so I assume the
> 
> Cross-platform connectivity
> 
> ...


 
 Or <wishful_thinking> mini HDMI passthrough </wishful_thinking>


----------



## fritzritz

I was looking at MLE's diagram for using an external amp with a virtual surround sound device and was unsure how you would incorporate a boompro.  Is this correct?


----------



## Yethal

fritzritz said:


> I was looking at MLE's diagram for using an external amp with a virtual surround sound device and was unsure how you would incorporate a boompro.  Is this correct?


 
 Mixamp > Y-adapter headphone output > amp > BoomPro Y-adapter headphone input
 Mixamp > Y adapter microphone output > Boom Pro Y-adapter microphone input


----------



## fritzritz

thanks yethal.  I see where I got mixed up...I forgot about the y-adapter for the boompro when I was drawing that up which caused me to get confused how the mixamp y-adater came into play and thought I didn't need it.  Feels good to learn haha!


----------



## MattKelly

So is there a general consensus on here as to closed back headphones with the most exceptional soundstage and positional imaging (for footsteps in competitive FPS games)? I need closed cans specifically for noisy LAN environments (MLG) and will be running the headphones through the Astro MixAmp exclusively (so low impedance is a must). Right now I'm looking at the AKG K553 Pro, ATH-A900X, Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro (32 Ohm). Any others that I'm missing and any clear winners here?


----------



## AxelCloris

mattkelly said:


> So is there a general consensus on here as to closed back headphones with the most exceptional soundstage and positional imaging (for footsteps in competitive FPS games)? I need closed cans specifically for noisy LAN environments (MLG) and will be running the headphones through the Astro MixAmp exclusively (so low impedance is a must). Right now I'm looking at the AKG K553 Pro, ATH-A900X, Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro (32 Ohm). Any others that I'm missing and any clear winners here?


 
  
 My personal favorite closed gaming headphone is the Alpha Dog. Unfortunately, I've never heard an efficient headphone that comes close, and you'd need an amp with the Mixamp. I ran my Mixamp into an E12 for the AD. Sorry, but I can't speak to any of the ones you mentioned because I haven't heard most of them and I didn't care for the DT-770.


----------



## MattKelly

axelcloris said:


> My personal favorite closed gaming headphone is the Alpha Dog. Unfortunately, I've never heard an efficient headphone that comes close, and you'd need an amp with the Mixamp. I ran my Mixamp into an E12 for the AD. Sorry, but I can't speak to any of the ones you mentioned because I haven't heard most of them and I didn't care for the DT-770.


 
 Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately those are way out of my price range (can't really go above $300) and I'd need the headphones to work without an extra amp (lots of traveling to LAN's so need to be portable and quick to set up - ideally Mixamp and headphones/mic only).


----------



## Sam21

mattkelly said:


> Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately those are way out of my price range (can't really go above $300) and I'd need the headphones to work without an extra amps (lots of traveling to LAN's so need to be portable and quick to set up - ideally Mixamp and headphones/mic only).


 
 CAL!1 and CAL!2


----------



## MattKelly

sam21 said:


> CAL!1 and CAL!2


 
 Thanks for the suggestion! But better soundstage/imaging than the K553/A900X/COP/DT-770??


----------



## PurpleAngel

mattkelly said:


> So is there a general consensus on here as to closed back headphones with the most exceptional soundstage and positional imaging (for footsteps in competitive FPS games)? I need closed cans specifically for noisy LAN environments (MLG) and will be running the headphones through the Astro MixAmp exclusively (so low impedance is a must). Right now I'm looking at the AKG K553 Pro, ATH-A900X, Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro, Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro (32 Ohm). Any others that I'm missing and any clear winners here?


 
  
 What Is the Astro Mix-amp connected to?
  
 AKG K553 Pro or ATH-A900X would seem like the best value.
 I own the AKG K550 and ATH-A900X headphones, I prefer the A900X over my K550 (the A900X being more musical).
 but I've heard the K553 Pro is an improvement over the K550.


----------



## MattKelly

purpleangel said:


> What Is the Astro Mix-amp connected to?
> 
> AKG K553 Pro or ATH-A900X would seem like the best value.
> I own the AKG K550 and ATH-A900X headphones, I prefer the A900X over my K550 (the A900X being more musical).
> but I've heard the K553 Pro is an improvement over the K550.


 
 The MixAmp would be plugged directly into a PS4 via an optical cable (also would tether in my PC to it when I'm at home - but that's not a priority at all). I'm definitely considering the K553 and A900X as my top two right now! Although I'm not sure where the Custom One Pro would fit in with those two (better/worse/different?). Thanks for the input!


----------



## PurpleAngel

mattkelly said:


> The MixAmp would be plugged directly into a PS4 via an optical cable (also would tether in my PC to it when I'm at home - but that's not a priority at all). I'm definitely considering the K553 and A900X as my top two right now! Although I'm not sure where the Custom One Pro would fit in with those two (better/worse/different?). Thanks for the input!


 
  
 You can get a low cost sound card, like the Asus Xonar DG or DGX, for your PC.
 Just leave the Astro plugged into the gaming console.


----------



## MattKelly

purpleangel said:


> You can get a low cost sound card, like the Asus Xonar DG or DGX, for your PC.
> Just leave the Astro plugged into the gaming console.


 
 Yeah, I need to listen to both at the same time though, and the MixAmp just simplifies that (when I am home that is - main priority is LAN performance with just the MixAmp and some closed headphones with great soundstage).


----------



## PurpleAngel

mattkelly said:


> Yeah, I need to listen to both at the same time though, and the MixAmp just simplifies that (when I am home that is - main priority is LAN performance with just the MixAmp and some closed headphones with great soundstage).


 
  
 How were you planning on listening to your PC audio and gaming console audio at the same time, with I'm assuming would be one headphone?


----------



## MattKelly

*Double Post*


----------



## MattKelly

purpleangel said:


> How were you planning on listening to your PC audio and gaming console audio at the same time, with I'm assuming would be one headphone?


The Astro MixAmp! Let's me take several devices and mix them into one headset (Skype calls, music from computer, console game sound, even phone calls on my iPhone).


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> The Astro MixAmp! Let's me take several devices and mix them into one headset (Skype calls, music from computer, console game sound, even phone calls on my iPhone).


 
 Custom One Pro with Custom headset gear would make a good closed headset for LAN. COP is only 16 ohm impedance so it should run fine from the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dream of a day when Beyer sells a bluetooth COP with a 3.5mm detachcable cable that when used turns off the BT feature and sounds like the regular COP.

That, and with optional DT770 style velour pads.


I think at this point, any closed headphone that would interest me would HAVE to be wireless in some form.

I liked the COP quite a lot, despite it not being as good as others in it's price range. The features on it made it a viable headphone, one that would make me happy if it were wireless for sure.



I enjoyed the HELL out of the Skullcandy PLYR1. I just wish it was more comfy. That was about as closed to optimal for a closed headphone for me.

Ooh, a wireless Slyr would have been even better. I mean, that's essentially what the PLYR1 is, but the Slyr's design was more comfy by a stretch.


----------



## MattKelly

mad lust envy said:


> I dream of a day when Beyer sells a bluetooth COP with a 3.5mm detachcable cable that when used turns off the BT feature and sounds like the regular COP.
> 
> That, and with optional DT770 style velour pads.
> 
> ...


 
 I totally understand the draw with closed headphones being wireless - but for competitive gamers who need closed headphones for noisy LAN environments, along with wide soundstages for positional accuracy (I know - they just don't go hand in hand) - what would you recommend? I've crossed a few options off of my list so far and have now narrowed it down to three:

 - AKG K553 Pro
 - ATH-A900X
 - DT770 Premium (32 Ohm)

 ...And as I mentioned before, I'll be running the headphones through the Astro MixAmp exclusively - no extra amps. Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## Luckbad

mattkelly said:


> I totally understand the draw with closed headphones being wireless - but for competitive gamers who need closed headphones for noisy LAN environments, along with wide soundstages for positional accuracy (I know - they just don't go hand in hand) - what would you recommend? I've crossed a few options off of my list so far and have now narrowed it down to three:
> 
> - AKG K553 Pro
> - ATH-A900X
> ...


 
  
 The best closed gaming headset I've used is the Sennheiser G4me Zero. It's also the most comfortable headphone I've ever used. It is better for positional accuracy than some open headphones, but not as good as the best open.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> I dream of a day when Beyer sells a bluetooth COP with a 3.5mm detachcable cable that when used turns off the BT feature and sounds like the regular COP.
> 
> That, and with optional DT770 style velour pads.
> 
> ...


 

 Like this?


----------



## kayan

yethal said:


> Like this?




Omg, I literally just about fell out of my chair when I saw that. 

I'm so giving you rep when I'm not on mobile.


----------



## MattKelly

luckbad said:


> The best closed gaming headset I've used is the Sennheiser G4me Zero. It's also the most comfortable headphone I've ever used. It is better for positional accuracy than some open headphones, but not as good as the best open.


 
 That's what I used for the past year, but I just sold it for other reasons! It was great, indeed. Just curious if any other headphones, rather than headsets, can beat it. I'm about to pull the trigger on the AKG K553 Pro to be honest


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, why not? I'd be curious about the K553 Pro as well.
  
 One closed affordable headphone I really liked was the DT770 Limited AE 32 Ohms, until this day the best DT770 I had and heard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Holy hell Yethal, that's insane, lol. Pretty genius. I just would absolutely need a proper audio sync, and at least apt-X. Bluetooth is an area that still needs a lot of growth in terms of SQ.
As far as closed headphones go, the Alpha Dog is about the best I've personally heard. Those are spectacular for everything, really.

On a budget, hmm, I admit, my closed headphone side of the guide is sorely lacking, so I don't wanna make blind picks.

I should've gotten the DT770 AE 32 for review from Beyer when I had the chance...


----------



## Yethal

Works like a charm both with my phone and BT-W2 transceiver. Who needs wireless headphones. Afair second generation of this device had aptX support. This paired with a really short cable (or just a female to female coupler) would make a much more versatile bluetooth headphones than actual bluetooth headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, I read a lot of disconcerting things about the device, which is why I'm not exactly convinced. But I'll definitely keep it in mind. You got some 770 velours on that COP?


----------



## Sam21

Aurvana PLatinum is Bluetooth and it aint that bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I singled that one out as a point of interest. The Gold too. The bigger driver variants from certain companies sometimes aren't as good as their cheaper models. The Sennheiser Urbanite is one example where the smaller one is regarded as the best one, despite the over ear being bigger and more expensive.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno, I read a lot of disconcerting things about the device, which is why I'm not exactly convinced. But I'll definitely keep it in mind. You got some 770 velours on that COP?


 
 Not yet, are they that much of an improvement over stock? From what I gathered on the COP thread, DT770 pads reduced bass quality a little bit.
  
 The Jabra adapter has its issues (mediocre battery life and crappy built-in mic) but it mostly works and does nat cause me more problems than it solves. However if You aren't convinced, there are other similar devices which make dedicated Bluetooth headphones obsolete.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Abco-Tech-Bluetooth-Hands-Free-Calling-A2DP-Audio-Streaming-Adapter-Receiver-/281745113454


sam21 said:


> Aurvana PLatinum is Bluetooth and it aint that bad.


 
 I've only head the wired version (the Aurvana 2) but was pleasantly surprised by them. Might be worth a look


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Not yet, are they that much of an improvement over stock? From what I gathered on the COP thread, DT770 pads reduced bass quality a little bit.
> I've only head the wired version (the Aurvana 2) but was pleasantly surprised by them. Might be worth a look




But the COP has the bass slider, so wouldn't it be offset a little by just adding more bass? In any case, the COP is bassy as is, so a slight reduction wouldn't be the end of the world. It may be beneficial for gaming.

As for why? Comfort. You know I'm not a fan of pleather, so if there is ever a legit alternative on headphones, I would go for it, personally. Speaking of, the Shure 1540 pads sound pretty good on the COP. One who is adventurous enough could hypothetically cut out the felt on the 1540's pads for even better sound since the COP already has a felt covering the drivers. I'm not rich though, and wouldn't wanna damage the 1540 pads and it be a mistake.


----------



## MattKelly

fegefeuer said:


> Yeah, why not? I'd be curious about the K553 Pro as well.
> 
> One closed affordable headphone I really liked was the DT770 Limited AE 32 Ohms, until this day the best DT770 I had and heard.


 
  
 Interesting. Have you had the chance to listen to the MMX 300 by chance? I hear they're equivalent to the DT 770 Premium 32 Ohm, rather than the Pro 32 Ohm. Any chance you've compared the Premium/Pro/MMX300 directly?


mad lust envy said:


> Holy hell Yethal, that's insane, lol. Pretty genius. I just would absolutely need a proper audio sync, and at least apt-X. Bluetooth is an area that still needs a lot of growth in terms of SQ.
> As far as closed headphones go, the Alpha Dog is about the best I've personally heard. Those are spectacular for everything, really.
> 
> On a budget, hmm, I admit, my closed headphone side of the guide is sorely lacking, so I don't wanna make blind picks.
> ...


 
 I'm still keeping my options open with the DT770 - but I have heard that the DT770 Premium 32 Ohm has much better sound stage and imaging than the AE Pro 32 Ohm (whether this is true or not, idk for sure). Regardless though, I don't know how either would compare to the K553 Pro, when footsteps and in-game positioning/imaging are the main priority. A900X are out for me - simply due to ergonomic reasons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I personally can't stand the A900X's headband design..


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I personally can't stand the A900X's headband design..


 
  
 Isn't the A900X Audio Technica brand with the 3D wings headband?  That is the worst headband I ever experienced with.  Had AD700 4 years ago with it, and returned the headphones 3 days later.


----------



## Change is Good

These pads may be good options for the COP. 

http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Velor-Memory-Replacements-Earpads/dp/B00MFDX4YO

http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Hybrid-Memory-Foam-Earpad/dp/B00ZGGG3KY

I was going to grab a hybrid pair (focus pad look-a-likes) for the m220 until I backed out of the drop and opted for a refund (due to delays from AKG warehouse).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those velours seal well, that you know of?


----------



## jincuteguy

change is good said:


> These pads may be good options for the COP.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Brainwavz-Velor-Memory-Replacements-Earpads/dp/B00MFDX4YO
> 
> ...


 
 You sure these will fit the COP? These Brainwave have an oval kinda shape, and i know the COP has a rounded earpad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 1540 pads are oval shaped and fit the COP just fine. The pads aren't affected by slipping the lips on to the COP. Yes they'll remain mostly oval, but that just makes it a better fit over the ears.


----------



## Change is Good

Never tried them myself. Found them when Axel linked the k240 pads a short while back. They look thick and seem to be super comfy judging from pics on the reviews. For something like the COP I'd opt for the hybrid, however, to avoid significant sound change and leakage.


----------



## Ripkabird98

Ok, so I'm getting into online gaming now.

 I recently bought a pair of the Logitech G930's, and they're decent, but I'm returning them because they're simply too glitchy to be worth 5 dollars, much less the 90 I payed. Therefore, I'm in the search for a new one.

 I come to this thread for help. 
 I play a wide variety of games on console AND PC, and I crave full immersion. I like hearing the twang of the bow as Neith in Smite, and the 1000's of explosions behind me in Planetside 2 as I storm a generator point. Simply put, I want to feel I'm there. I want to hear every footstep and gunshot and know precisely where it is without thinking.
  
 That wouldn't be a problem, I'd get the Seinnheiser PC-363D, I found a pair for $150 (my budget). 
  
 However, I also listen to music. A lot of it. Rap (rarely) but primarily Rock, post-hardcore, metal, Hollywood Undead, We Came As Romans, etc, etc, and obviously these require bass, and I've heard the 363D's don't have that for music.
  
 Overall, what complete headsets (with mic) would you guys recommend? I'm desperate. I've looked for hours, and a lot if is I don't understand a lot of the language. I'm not even 100% what an Ohm is, so I can't look at specs and determine it myself.

 Thank you in advance guys!


----------



## SonnyA85

I bought an antlion mod mic last year and only started using it now.
  
 People say my $1 clip on mic from china sounds clearer but has background noise like a hiss or low level hum.
  
 Is my antlion mod mic defective?
  
 Should I ebay it and buy another I'm in UK and postage is so expensive to america it would be cheaper i reckon to sell this one and buy another.
  
 Or is it the fact they may all be using crappy headsets?
  
 I'm using a 2015 mixamp btw with hd558's modded into 598's.


----------



## Blze001

ripkabird98 said:


> Ok, so I'm getting into online gaming now.
> 
> I recently bought a pair of the Logitech G930's, and they're decent, but I'm returning them because they're simply too glitchy to be worth 5 dollars, much less the 90 I payed. Therefore, I'm in the search for a new one.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're not gonna find a headset that has great sound for $150. Manufacturers take $50 headphones, slap a mic on them, then sell them as the "OMG GAMING" brand for $200.
  
 Best bet is to get a nice pair of $100 headphones like the Senn HD558 or Audio Technica 700Xs and then get a $10 Zalman clip-on mic or a $40 ModMic. That $110-$140 you spend will blow the doors off any gaming headset you'll find for $150.
  
@SonnyA85 You may have a bad one, mine is crystal clear... do you have it positioned properly?


----------



## SonnyA85

positioned properly?
  
 it's near my mouth what else do you need to do to it?
  
 just looked at official website
  
  
*Product specs:*
 
Jack: 3.5mm plated TRS for use with PCs
Xbox One: works fine through controller via a CTIA/TRRS adapter. Will need latest firmware update! (as of 5/22/15)
Play Station 4: works fine through controller via a CTIA/TRRS adapter.* Sounds strange at times if used through mixamp. *
Mac/PS3/Xbox 360 headset jacks with proper adapter (Macs will need a USB adapter)

 
  
  
 Cannot believe this is not common knowledge.
  
 I'm sure that wasn't on there site when I ordered one.


----------



## Blze001

sonnya85 said:


> positioned properly?
> 
> it's near my mouth what else do you need to do to it?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I did some poking around, apparently bad-sounding mics are a common problem with the Mixamps, you might want to try skipping the Mixamp and plugging the mic directly into the motherboard mic port.
  
 Also, by proper positioning, I mean the mic should be sitting an inch away from the corner of your mouth, especially if it's a uni-directional one. Too far back along the cheek and it won't pick up voice properly, too far forward and it'll pick up the air moving out of your mouth.


----------



## raband

I had a modmic that was bad - sent an email and they replaced it - replacement was perfect
  
 (awesome customer service from antlion - am in Oz - replacement was in my hands within a week)
  
 Try your modmic into another receiver before you blame either product too


----------



## TumbleButt

If its okay to ask, how does the Alpha Prime fair in gaming? I mean, I've ordered one and I'm curious to know how it would fair compared to the Alpha Dogs. I mean, I've read in another review that compared it to the Alpha Dogs (not in Head-fi, though) that it has a bigger soundstage, but I'd like to hear more about it from others as well... since thats just one review


----------



## AxelCloris

I never upgraded from the Alpha Dogs to the Primes, so I cannot comment on how they are for gaming. I'd speculate that they'd be better for competitive gaming than the AD due to many reports that they're a bit brighter, but that's just an assumption. My only time with the Primes has been in a meet environment on gear I didn't know.
  
 So far the Ether are absolutely killer for gaming, if you're looking to really stretch the budget.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure I like the idea of the Alpha Dog becoming brighter when Prime'd. Its already flirting with sizzling brightness.


----------



## TumbleButt

axelcloris said:


> I never upgraded from the Alpha Dogs to the Primes, so I cannot comment on how they are for gaming. I'd speculate that they'd be better for competitive gaming than the AD due to many reports that they're a bit brighter, but that's just an assumption. My only time with the Primes has been in a meet environment on gear I didn't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 
 


mad lust envy said:


> Not sure I like the idea of the Alpha Dog becoming brighter when Prime'd. Its already flirting with sizzling brightness.



 


TBH, I kinda wanted a brighter sounding Alpha Dog. I just hope its not Tesla bright.

Oh yeah, @MadLustEnvy, how would you rate the TH900?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TH900: 5 stars fun, 3 stars competitive.

Sorry that I wasn't able to review them.

I mentioned a while back I'm going to a 5 star system in the future. 

5 - amazing ( ***** = EXCELLENT TO AMAZING)
4 - great ( **** = GREAT as in GREAT)
3 - good ( *** = GOOD to VERY GOOD, nothing more, nothing less) 
2- bad ( ** = self explanatory, not good)
1 - horrible ( * = avoid at all costs)

No more picking micro-points. People wanting to know how good a headphone is, they read the review, not obsess the points. I may eventually upgrade all the reviews to reflect this, so be aware.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> TH900: 5 stars fun, 3 stars competitive.
> 
> Sorry that I wasn't able to review them.
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome man, sometimes the more simple something it the better. Care to rate the comfort? P.S. So far I am not enjoying the MA900's, they are comfortable, yet annoy my ears because they touch and there is something off about the sound. Its hard to explain because the only open headphone I have in my possession to compare them to right now are my HD800's but the MA900's just sound too relaxed and too rolled off in the treble that they seem to lose detail.


----------



## Ripkabird98

blze001 said:


> You're not gonna find a headset that has great sound for $150. Manufacturers take $50 headphones, slap a mic on them, then sell them as the "OMG GAMING" brand for $200.
> 
> Best bet is to get a nice pair of $100 headphones like the Senn HD558 or Audio Technica 700Xs and then get a $10 Zalman clip-on mic or a $40 ModMic. That $110-$140 you spend will blow the doors off any gaming headset you'll find for $150.
> 
> ...




Hmm. Ok. The headphones do need to actually be closed back, not open... any suggestions for what might work whilst still offering surround sound and good music quality?


----------



## TumbleButt

mad lust envy said:


> TH900: 5 stars fun, 3 stars competitive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 

I see.


And yeah, I like the new grading system.


----------



## Malinkadink

I think i've decided to get an ear force dss, the first iteration is using actual dolby headphone processing and does 5.1 and upscaling to 7.1. DSS2 is not using dolby headphone processing and its only 4.1 surround with a bunch of weird angle presets which i wont need with an hd558, plus the bassboost on the DSS i can see being more useful. My question is will i be able to use the usb out on the DSS to hookup to my pc and get all the audio that goes through the DSS from the console to the pc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Comfort for the TH900 is gonna be subjective big time, since it instantly loses points in my book due to not having cloth pads. That's just personal preference. Asides from that, the TH900 is very comfortable, and I'd rate it 4 stars for pretty much everyone. My other gripe it could stand to have a more secured feeling on the head.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

inseconds99 said:


> Awesome man, sometimes the more simple something it the better. Care to rate the comfort? P.S. So far I am not enjoying the MA900's, they are comfortable, yet annoy my ears because they touch and there is something off about the sound. Its hard to explain because the only open headphone I have in my possession to compare them to right now are my HD800's but the MA900's just sound too relaxed and too rolled off in the treble that they seem to lose detail.




That's because you're too accustomed to the birghter sound of the HD800. The MA900 IS on the smooth side, so DIRECTLY comparing it against something you've loved for awhile that is quite different will be staggering to anyone. This is why I hate to compare two headphones with different sound balances directly. You have to give the MA900 your undivided attention for a week or two so you can let your ears acclimate to the difference.

One does not simply go from something like a Sennheiser to say....a Grado. You will always lean towards one or the other.

Of course, the humongous gap in price, technical tier level is a whole other factor. You have to manage your expectations. You are going from TOTL to a fairly lower mid tier level headphone.

This is how I can go from a Fostex TH900 to a KSC35 without feeling let down.


----------



## Yethal

malinkadink said:


> I think i've decided to get an ear force dss, the first iteration is using actual dolby headphone processing and does 5.1 and upscaling to 7.1. DSS2 is not using dolby headphone processing and its only 4.1 surround with a bunch of weird angle presets which i wont need with an hd558, plus the bassboost on the DSS i can see being more useful. My question is will i be able to use the usb out on the DSS to hookup to my pc and get all the audio that goes through the DSS from the console to the pc?


 
 USB on the DSS is just a passthrough, think of it as an extension cord built into the unit.


----------



## Ripkabird98

Also, Mad Lust Envy, you have any opinions on my predicament?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I singled that one out as a point of interest. The Gold too. The bigger driver variants from certain companies sometimes aren't as good as their cheaper models. The Sennheiser Urbanite is one example where the smaller one is regarded as the best one, despite the over ear being bigger and more expensive.




The gold is alright, especially heard by itself. Side-by-side, the Platinum is better detailed, more refined, and the pads are softer. All three of the current Aurvana fullsize headphones have a fair sense of distance but are still fun, a bit recessed in the treble so no fatigue there. The ANC can be a true relief while riding in a car, I put them on with no music for a few hours just to give my ears a break from the loud drone of the road noise. I don't have an apt-x capable bt source, but even AAC encoded audio streams sound pretty great from AAC iTunes files. I haven't tested how they sound over BT with the Onkyo iOS app that lets you playback FLAC files (meaning I don't know how well it down samples high-Rez files on the fly).

Even with a powerful and slightly bright amp, these headphones sound extra dark and weird once the battery dies and you can't "turn on" the headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think they'll go that high for now, so I expect a Soundblaster Jam first (I want to try this one for personal reasons), and maybe one of the SB Evos later.


----------



## paulguru

how can be possible that 598 have 9.25pt to competitive line and other like AKG have 10pt ?
 U can tell me 598 soundstage and positioning is near to AKG 7xx and Audio Technica ?


----------



## TumbleButt

paulguru said:


> how can be possible that 598 have 9.25pt to competitive line and other like AKG have 10pt ?
> 
> 
> U can tell me 598 soundstage and positioning is near to AKG 7xx and Audio Technica ?



 


I can guess that its because its part of their respective intended design that have directly or indirectly benefited gaming. Then again, I doubt Sennheiser, AKG, or Audio Technica had gaming in mind when they designed them, but ended up being that good for gaming.


----------



## Ripkabird98

Just out of curiousity, what do you guys rate the little IEMs that come with Samsung phones? I only ask because honestly, those sound fine to me, so if the the Seinnheiser PC-363D's sound as good or better, I may be happy with those...
  
 Edit: Nevermind, didn't realize the 363's were open.


----------



## Yethal

paulguru said:


> how can be possible that 598 have 9.25pt to competitive line and other like AKG have 10pt ?
> U can tell me 598 soundstage and positioning is near to AKG 7xx and Audio Technica ?


 
 Yes it is


----------



## DyroB

Wow, very impressing topic! Kudos. 
  
 I decided to buy a headset for gaming and listening to music at home. Search the last couple of days a lot on the web (completely noob in this section of hardware, always used cheap and simple earplugs) and I'm totally not sure what I have to buy.
  
 Before I found this topic, I was thinking about buying the HyperX Cloud II if I decide to buy a closed one, or the Sennheiser HD 558 if I decide to buy an open one. Unfortunately, both of them didn't make the list. But after reading this topic, I also got interested in the Creative Aurvana Live! (or the newer edition, the Live!2. Not sure what's the difference between the two besides the looks?).
  
 I'm still not sure if I have to go for an open or a closed one. I intend to use it only at home, so the more surround feeling the open-one gives does sounds interesting. But I also like to emerge into the game, and I wonder if closed headphones really are that bad for the surrounding feeling? Do I really notice the difference between closed and open surrounding, when it's going to be my first more serious headset?
  
 And how good is the HyperX Cloud II? Would this be a good choice if I go for the closed one? Or is, in this topic the good rated Creative Aurvana Live! (or Live!2) the better option of I go for the closed one? And is the Sennheiser HD 558 good choice if I go for the open one?


----------



## paulguru

I had Cloud 2, Fidelio X2, Senn HD600 and 598.
  
 Cloud II is very similar for its price to all my hifi headphones.
 Its a close headphone but sound stage is very very open and not seems close, seems open.


----------



## DyroB

paulguru said:


> I had Cloud 2, Fidelio X2, Senn HD600 and 598.
> 
> Cloud II is very similar for its price to all my hifi headphones.
> Its a close headphone but sound stage is very very open and not seems close, seems open.


 
  Alright, thank you very much for your reply. I think I'm just going to order the Cloud II then =)
  
 Still one question, and I hope you can answer it because you had the Cloud II. I noticed that you can't equalize the sound on the Cloud II, because there is no driver/software, just a plug-and-play set. Is it possible to use software like Razer Surround with the Cloud II when the Cloud II is connected to the USB sound''card''? Or will the Razer software just interfere with the EQ settings of the sound''card''?


----------



## paulguru

Razer surround is crap
 The 7.1 of cloud II integrated in the dongle is hyper crap ( maybe one of the bigger fail i haver seen )
 Headphone surround of Asus is totally inusable.
  
 Only Creative softwares are amazing and run great.


----------



## DyroB

paulguru said:


> Razer surround is crap
> The 7.1 of cloud II integrated in the dongle is hyper crap ( maybe one of the bigger fail i haver seen )
> Headphone surround of Asus is totally inusable.
> 
> Only Creative softwares are amazing and run great.


 
  
 Lol, that response screams ''don't buy the Cloud 2''.
 I've read a lot of opinions about the virtual 7.1 dongle option, a lot of people claims it's very good considering it is virtual, others just think it's meh, not good but also not bad. But most of them agree it gives (at least a bit of) a surrounding feeling. But giving your response, you don't agree on that?
  
 I was more interested in the Cloud 2 because of the virtual 7.1 add-on. If I just going to use it in standard stereo I'm maybe going to reconsider to go for an open headphone, like the HD558, because of the overall sound quality. I like the surrounding aspect of it, and because I'm using it at home I don't mind sound leaking. But I do ''hate'' (sounds more dramatic than it is) hearing backgroundsound around me. Is it, with an open headphone, just a matter of turning the volume up and no/almost no backgroundsounds around you? Or is a closed one really needed for the emerge feeling?
  
 And I've searched on creative software on the web, did you mean sony creative software? And which one specific? 
 Because I would like to have the option to play with the EQ, no matter if I go for the Cloud 2 or the HD 558. If that's even possible with the Cloud 2 while using the dongle..


----------



## PacoTaco

dyrob said:


> Lol, that response screams ''don't buy the Cloud 2''.
> I've read a lot of opinions about the virtual 7.1 dongle option, a lot of people claims it's very good considering it is virtual, others just think it's meh, not good but also not bad. But most of them agree it gives (at least a bit of) a surrounding feeling. But giving your response, you don't agree on that?
> 
> I was more interested in the Cloud 2 because of the virtual 7.1 add-on. If I just going to use it in standard stereo I'm maybe going to reconsider to go for an open headphone, like the HD558, because of the overall sound quality. I like the surrounding aspect of it, and because I'm using it at home I don't mind sound leaking. But I do ''hate'' (sounds more dramatic than it is) hearing backgroundsound around me. Is it, with an open headphone, just a matter of turning the volume up and no/almost no backgroundsounds around you? Or is a closed one really needed for the emerge feeling?
> ...


 
 He means the company called creative. They make the soundblaster stuff. They're the best of the affordable surround sound processing stuff by far.


----------



## DyroB

So the software named SOUND BLASTER X-FI MB3? I don't mind buying that if it gives me better and more EQ and surround settings options =)
 Or does that software comes for free when you buy the headphone Live!2? Couldn't find it on the productpage, so it probably doesn't. 
  
 Also, giving that the Cloud 2 = 107 euro, and the Live!2 = 100 euro. Which would be a better option?


----------



## Evshrug

dyrob said:


> So the software named SOUND BLASTER X-FI MB3? I don't mind buying that if it gives me better and more EQ and surround settings options =)
> Or does that software comes for free when you buy the headphone Live!2? Couldn't find it on the productpage, so it probably doesn't.
> 
> Also, giving that the Cloud 2 = 107 euro, and the Live!2 = 100 euro. Which would be a better option?




Yes that software (link in USA store: http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3). If you already have the Cloud II (and the cloud II only connects via USB?), then yes, Creative's X-Fi software is probably your best bet.

The thing about surround processing (see my article linked in my signature), everyone's ears are slightly different and what works for most people won't work at all for others. Mad, NamelessPFG, and I used to weigh in about which was "best" between Dolby Headphone, Creative CMSS-3D, and Creative SBX; while we could generally agree on certain characteristics about each processing method, we also came to the conclusion that it mostly came down to personal taste. Those three are the most widely used and available processing, but there are many more which vary in sophistication and "naturalness." Razer surround processing is pretty customizable, but ultimately it's just not as sophisticated as the first three I mentioned and (subjectively) I couldn't get it to sound natural to me.

Regarding headphones/headset, I'd prefer something I could use with multiple devices, especially if it was going to be my only or "main" headphone. I haven't heard the Cloud II myself, but I have a CAL! 2, it sounds nice enough with a pleasant warm and bassy sound, but I've never been able to wear any closed headphone so far for the multiple hours I like to play games for. Hot ears and pressure discomfort, the CAL!2's are better than some closed headphones but not especially for marathoning IMO. I haven't heard the famous Audio Technica M50, but what I hear from the CAL!2 matches the typical M50 description.


----------



## DyroB

evshrug said:


> Yes that software (link in USA store: http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3). If you already have the Cloud II (and the cloud II only connects via USB?), then yes, Creative's X-Fi software is probably your best bet.
> 
> The thing about surround processing (see my article linked in my signature), everyone's ears are slightly different and what works for most people won't work at all for others. Mad, NamelessPFG, and I used to weigh in about which was "best" between Dolby Headphone, Creative CMSS-3D, and Creative SBX; while we could generally agree on certain characteristics about each processing method, we also came to the conclusion that it mostly came down to personal taste. Those three are the most widely used and available processing, but there are many more which vary in sophistication and "naturalness." Razer surround processing is pretty customizable, but ultimately it's just not as sophisticated as the first three I mentioned and (subjectively) I couldn't get it to sound natural to me.
> 
> Regarding headphones/headset, I'd prefer something I could use with multiple devices, especially if it was going to be my only or "main" headphone. I haven't heard the Cloud II myself, but I have a CAL! 2, it sounds nice enough with a pleasant warm and bassy sound, but I've never been able to wear any closed headphone so far for the multiple hours I like to play games for. Hot ears and pressure discomfort, the CAL!2's are better than some closed headphones but not especially for marathoning IMO.


 
 Thank you very much for your reply. As a matter of fact, I already did read your topic after websearching. Thank you for that =)
 And to be honest. I'm currently completely lost. I thought, I want a better audio device then my simple 2.0 speaker set, and with a max of 100 euro (because I've always used ~20 euro earplugs). But the choices, and the difference, is so overwhelming. I'm really glad I've found this site, with people who are trying to help me.
  
 All I want is that the sound when I'm gaming is good and strong enough to emerge me into the setting (like I'm right there), with a good surrounding quality, and a good experience while listening to music. I'm really not sure if I have to go for a closed or an open one. I know that, when I'll go with the cloud II, I will get that emerge feeling into the setting of the game, but I'm not sure how the surround setting is, how well the 7.1 function performs and if it's possible to play with the equelizer settings through software like Razer or Creative's X-Fi. For the music part and the surrounding feeling I'd probably go best with the Sennheiser HD 558, and maybe can create a 7.1 virtual surround with software like Razer or Creative's X-Fi (is this possible with the HD 558 and the right software?). I really don't care about a mic (also because I already have a studio mic, but I just don't like talking while I'm gaming). 
  
 I wanted to order the Cloud II and just be over with it, but I'm really afraid I take the wrong decision. I know, I could return the headphone and go with the other, but I rather have the one that best suits with me right away. I do realize that everybody has it's own opinion about what is best, but based on what I want to be able with it, which one suits me better? 
  
 BTW, if it's relevant for the opinion; Cloud II = ~105 euro, HD 558 = ~140 euro. But I'm willing to pay that price if that option suits me better.


----------



## SwordfishCuh

Thanks for the awesome guide m8! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I've decided on the Philips Fidelio X2 for my Xbox One setup.


----------



## LewisASTL

paulguru said:


> Razer surround is crap
> The 7.1 of cloud II integrated in the dongle is hyper crap ( maybe one of the bigger fail i haver seen )
> Headphone surround of Asus is totally inusable.
> 
> Only Creative softwares are amazing and run great.


 
  
 I actually disagree about the cloud. The surround mode on Cloud II is quite acceptable without any consistent alteration, while i did not test the Razer Surround outside of a Razer headset yet. I'm currently busy with a lot of reviews but it's on schedule.
  
  


evshrug said:


> Yes that software (link in USA store: http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3). If you already have the Cloud II (and the cloud II only connects via USB?), then yes, Creative's X-Fi software is probably your best bet.


 
  
 Cloud II can be connected either with classical jack plug or USB dongle. Audio quality wise (cloud I and II) they're the same.


----------



## DyroB

I've ended up with ordering the JVC HA-RX700 and the Sound Blaster Omni. Again, thanks for this wonderful topic, thanks to the people who gave me opinions and advice, and in particularly, thank you Evshrug!


----------



## raband

Any thought on running decent (eg Senn RS 185) wireless cans being fed via a surround headphone dac?
  
 Am tipping they'd run the effects fine, but I really haven't heard of them being used for surround gaming.
  
 Is there a bit of lag there, does the HRTF get lost or do the Turtle Beach, Razor etc options for wireless gaming do something right (as far as it goes)?
  
 Voice chat would be hard to implement without wires, but solo play on the couch with no wires and decent cans would be very nice.


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm, interesting thought.
I know one pair of closed Sennheiser home wireless headphones comes with it's own surround processing, but that processing has only had "meh" reviews and I haven't seen anyone say it helps them pinpoint front/back locations.

However, you were talking about something like Console>DSS>RS185. And sure, that could work pretty well. If the headphone does imaging well, doesn't have particularly strong sound coloration, does have good mids clarity and treble extension, then it ought to be a good gamer with surround. I'd say comfort is a very big important thing for gamers, wireless helps a bit but weight, pads, and clamping force are important too.

The possible sound bottlenecks would be the fact that the wireless base station would have to be connected to the DSP (such as a turtle beach DSS) via the analog headphone jack, then the base station would have to convert the signal back to digital before zapping it through the wireless. Just might be slightly less crisp than a straight analogue wired connection.

Two ways to keep it digital till the sound reaches your headphones: play games on a steam box or other TV PC, and use one of the plethora of options with processed digital outs ($25-$60), or connect a Creative X7 ($400) with What U Hear to a PC ($? Extra electric bill) and connect the base station transmitter to any optical out (such as the one on the X7). In case you're wondering "Why is it this way???" the answer is DRM and licensing issues, particularly with Dolby


----------



## rudyae86

http://www.pcgamer.com/logitech-launches-g633-and-g933-artemis-spectrum-71-headsets/

Going to leave this hear for all of you to read...

Logitechs new gaming headset....

The kicker is....they do a side by side comparison with the HD600.....

Umm..what?!


----------



## LewisASTL

"and in a side-by-side listening test with the Sennheiser HD 650s (which cost $400+), the Artemis G933 stacked up shockingly well"
  
 I am not familiar with "stacking up". What does it means?


----------



## AxelCloris

lewisastl said:


> "and in a side-by-side listening test with the Sennheiser HD 650s (which cost $400+), the Artemis G933 stacked up shockingly well"
> 
> I am not familiar with "stacking up". What does it means?


 
  
 It means they did a surprisingly nice job of competing with the HD650.


----------



## rudyae86

Oops I meant to say HD650 not HD600. But yeah, it seems like it did well...unless they paid them journalists to say such things lol.

I'm willing to bet this thread on Head-fi has been seen by a lot of people around the world that companies like Logitech, Asus,and other companies are really reading what the customer wants and therefore make a product that can still cater to gamers with that "gamer tag" And sound really good at the same time.

I still love my AKG K7XX and Fidelio X2 though


----------



## AxelCloris

In my opinion, it's not that difficult to sound better than the HD650.


----------



## lenroot77

axelcloris said:


> In my opinion, it's not that difficult to sound better than the HD650.




OH SNAP!!!


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> In my opinion, it's not that difficult to sound better than the HD650.



+1 on that.


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> In my opinion, it's not that difficult to sound better than the HD650.




Lol careful, the haters might come in and say otherwise


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> http://www.pcgamer.com/logitech-launches-g633-and-g933-artemis-spectrum-71-headsets/
> 
> Going to leave this hear for all of you to read...
> 
> ...


 
 Why do pr0mlggaming headsets have to include LED lighting on the cups? Is it mandatory to look like a ******* clown in order to play competitive?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HD650 is a love it or hate it headphone (I feel the classic mid-fi gods all are like this). Even saying that, I fall more in line towards loving it, simply because its luscious, velvety, rich sound is something that wouldn't ever tire me out. There is definitely better in it's price range, but they will end up being used less due to ear fatigue, or something or other. Pairing that all day smoothness with that stellar midrange, and post stretch comfort... it's definitely one of the stand out headphones for me. I just wish it wasn't so picky with amping, and more sensitive so I could use it with anything.

If I had to choose between the HD650, K701/2, DT880 as far as the legends go, the HD650 is definitely far and above towards my preferences than the K70x. The DT880 is an excellent headphone, but I feel I'd rather opt for the DT990 as my Beyer of choice instead. That leaves me with the 650 as the one I'd be happy to use for all purposes, even though it isn't the best at any one thing (though certainly master class in the vocal midrange).

Today's headphone landscape is filled with a lot more killers in mid-fi, so the 650, 880, and K70x are no longer held in the same prestige as before. I'd choose a K702 Annie as a HD650 replacement, an X2 as a DT880 replacement, though I haven't heard anything to directly replace the K701/2 as that airy, clarity focused headphone. Let's not forget the Hifiman stuff that I'm sure would trade blows and surpass these in certain aspects.


----------



## pennylane

Besides PS4-specific headsets with USB dongles/base stations, are there any options for using a headset + mic on a PS4 WITHOUT plugging into the PS4 controller?  I mainly play Street Fighter and I have a custom controller that doesn't have the 3.5mm plug.  It seems like I'd have to get the Playstation Gold headset or something along those lines if I want a headset with mic to work on the PS4, but I want to confirm that.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> In my opinion, it's not that difficult to sound better than the HD650.




Shots fired!
The HD650 is a technically good headphone, but obviously colored for a specific sound. If you don't like that specific sound or it doesn't match well with the kind of audio you're listening to, then someone could prefer a Koss earclip headphone over it.

I'd like to hear one someday, but I doubt I'd keep one in my collection (unless wealth happens! (Wealth without becoming a pompous egocentric ****)).




mad lust envy said:


> HD650 is a love it or hate it headphone (I feel the classic mid-fi gods all are like this). Even saying that, I fall more in line towards loving it, simply because its luscious, velvety, rich sound is something that wouldn't ever tire me out. There is definitely better in it's price range, but they will end up being used less due to ear fatigue, or something or other. Pairing that all day smoothness with that stellar midrange, and post stretch comfort... it's definitely one of the stand out headphones for me. I just wish it wasn't so picky with amping, and more sensitive so I could use it with anything.



I think you'd be pleased with the Oppo PM-2 if you think of the above. It doesn't sound as "thick," but it has a very clear but intimate midrange, good bass extension (but not colored towards a boost, so it shows in audio that asks for it in a satisfying way but doesn't bloom over music intended to have air and lightness), and fast treble with no glare, slightly (but evenly) darkened to be fatigue free without the veil problems. Super amping-efficient too, so NOT amp picky... I'm not just talking about how Planars don't have sensitivity to output impedance, I mean it's also very full-sounding even from an iPhone's amp!

Basically, you can forget your worries about fatigue and amp matching, Plus velour pad option!


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Why do pr0mlggaming headsets have to include LED lighting on the cups? Is it mandatory to look like a ******* clown in order to play competitive?


 
 They try to cater to kids more nowadays. COD has more kids playing than 18 and over. But yeah, I dont get it, its not like the players from the other side are going to see your LEDs or something. I can live with a small led lighting up the logitech logo or something but has to be minimalist look. Anything that looks like a traffic light and ill just throw everything where its at and leave. lol


----------



## raband

rudyae86 said:


> its not like the players from the other side are going to see your LEDs or something.


 
  
 It's not like you're going to see them either when they're on your head


----------



## Blze001

raband said:


> It's not like you're going to see them either when they're on your head


 
  
 That's my view. The headphones could be ugly enough to make babies cry and light up like a Christmas tree, but if they're comfortable and sound good, I don't care. I'll just slap some tape over the LEDs if they reflect on my screen and close my eyes when I pull them out of the drawer.


----------



## Yethal

pennylane said:


> Besides PS4-specific headsets with USB dongles/base stations, are there any options for using a headset + mic on a PS4 WITHOUT plugging into the PS4 controller?  I mainly play Street Fighter and I have a custom controller that doesn't have the 3.5mm plug.  It seems like I'd have to get the Playstation Gold headset or something along those lines if I want a headset with mic to work on the PS4, but I want to confirm that.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Any USB headset will work.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't like headset LEDs because they add a modicum of heat. Plus those yo-yo looking Light Up headsets they have at like every GameStop are frigging huge! I was amused to see they have 3D angled EarPads, I feel like it didn't help the soundstage or anything...


----------



## avens

In case anyone was wondering, the Oppo PM-3 is indeed compatible with the BoomPro mic cable.


----------



## AxelCloris

avens said:


> In case anyone was wondering, the Oppo PM-3 is indeed compatible with the BoomPro mic cable.


 

 Yes it is. Viable combo for many gamers.


----------



## Helvetica bold

You wont be able to get 7.1 from the new G933 on consoles right because there no optical port, right? 
 Fingers Crossed that SandblasterX G5 has an optical port!!
  
 Also I was hoping for some sexy Battlefront headphones to come out later this year but no.
 Turtle Beach just announced their new cheapo looking headset. I was REALLY hoping for something with DTS:X or Dolby Atmos (headphone) tech. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/new-products-headsets/star-wars-battlefront-sandtrooper-gaming-headset/803


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Yes it is. Viable combo for many gamers.







avens said:


> In case anyone was wondering, the Oppo PM-3 is indeed compatible with the BoomPro mic cable.




Indeed. I'd love to have one, but my current budget won't allow such a purchase at its current tag. Definitely on my radar, however, for the right price.


----------



## shuto77

Hey, everyone. I'm considering a Fostex TH-600 as an "end-game" can. (Don't laugh- I have self-control, lol!) going price for a used one is ~$450 (US). 

Couple questions
1. Is it a truly great gaming headphone? 
2. Will it be a good compliment to my AKG K7XX? 

Usage will be about 50/50,gaming and music.


----------



## AxelCloris

shuto77 said:


> Hey, everyone. I'm considering a Fostex TH-600 as an "end-game" can. (Don't laugh- I have self-control, lol!) going price for a used one is ~$450 (US).
> 
> Couple questions
> 1. Is it a truly great gaming headphone?
> ...


 
  
 If you're seriously considering a TH-600, then I'd consider waiting a little longer before making your purchase. As a K7XX owner you should be familiar with Massdrop...
  

  
 Just sayin'.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> If you're seriously considering a TH-600, then I'd consider waiting a little longer before making your purchase. As a K7XX owner you should be familiar with Massdrop...




Good thinking, Axel. The last time I rushed a headphone purchase, I wasn't happy with my decision. 

I take it you're a fan of the Th-600s for my purposes?


----------



## shuto77

If anyone else is interested in the Fostex TH-600, here's the Massdrop link so we request another drop. Looks like we're at 41, but need to get to 200 votes. 

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fosetx-th-600-headphones


Thanks!


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> You wont be able to get 7.1 from the new G933 on consoles right because there no optical port, right?
> Fingers Crossed that SandblasterX G5 has an optical port!!
> 
> Also I was hoping for some sexy Battlefront headphones to come out later this year but no.
> ...




I could care less about that headset, I just want to know how DOLBY ATMOS is going to be implemented into the PC version of Battlefront....

As for the x5, if you read the specs, it does say multiplatform and obviously it will be a replacement for the Recon3D Which I have sold already since I don't use it or have not used it much....

But I'll probably go with the G5 since it does come a stronger AMP now and hopefully a better a slightly better DAC and hopefully, an optical out to chain a different DAC and AMP as well....but that might be too much to ask for.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone playing HELLDIVERS? Picked this up yesterday man is it fun. It's a twin stick shooter, with deep customization and heavy on co-op. Also has cross buy/play.


----------



## AxelCloris

shuto77 said:


> If anyone else is interested in the Fostex TH-600, here's the Massdrop link so we request another drop. Looks like we're at 41, but need to get to 200 votes.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fosetx-th-600-headphones
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I wasn't suggesting to wait/vote for another TH-600 drop, I was suggesting to wait for the TH-X00 Massdrop exclusive that's coming soon. 
  
 As for me being a fan of the TH-600 for gaming, I am not. Never used them for that purpose and I've only heard them for a few minutes.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> I wasn't suggesting to wait/vote for another TH-600 drop, I was suggesting to wait for the TH-X00 Massdrop exclusive that's coming soon.
> 
> As for me being a fan of the TH-600 for gaming, I am not. Never used them for that purpose and I've only heard them for a few minutes.




Thanks for the info, Axel!


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> shuto77 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, everyone. I'm considering a Fostex TH-600 as an "end-game" can. (Don't laugh- I have self-control, lol!) going price for a used one is ~$450 (US).
> ...



OH MY GOD. Are they doing a MD edition woody?!?!


----------



## Evshrug

I think SOMEONE just got a woody!




rudyae86 said:


> But I'll probably go with the G5 since it does come a stronger AMP now and hopefully a better a slightly better DAC and hopefully, an optical out to chain a different DAC and AMP as well....but that might be too much to ask for.



I'm still waiting to hear if Atmos has a headphone processing option. Till then, the tech is pointless for me.
And I'd still suspect that DDL decoding, processing, and outputting digitally through optical (without the PC "What U Hear" song and dance) will be blocked by Dolby licensing requirements. Maybe I'll be wrong BUT NO DDL DECODER YET HAS NATIVELY ALLOWED DIGITAL OUTPUT OF THE FINAL PROCESSED AUDIO. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> I think SOMEONE just got a woody!




Yes, I want details on this... Er... Not this, but the new Fostex/MD can, lol.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> I think SOMEONE just got a woody!



Hahaha!


----------



## Helvetica bold

Did you guys see the new Astro A40TR, or am I behind? Looks interesting I was hoping they would add DTSX but nah.
  
 http://www.astrogaming.com/tr-landing/tr-landing.html
  
 Hands On
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW4HvWI5M0g


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> OH MY GOD. Are they doing a MD edition woody?!?!


 
  
 Mayhaps. I'll leave the photo to you and your imagination.
  


evshrug said:


> I think SOMEONE just got a woody!


 
  
 Giggity.
  


shuto77 said:


> Yes, I want details on this... Er... Not this, but the new Fostex/MD can, lol.


 
  
 Not going to spill details that haven't been shared publicly already. You'll just have to wait until the official announcement.


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> Did you guys see the new Astro A40TR, or am I behind? Looks interesting I was hoping they would add DTSX but nah.
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.com/tr-landing/tr-landing.html
> 
> ...


 
 Don't tell me, another A40 rerelease? With no actual changes to the hardware itself?
  
 EDIT: Looks like I was wrong. The Mixamp itself has changed. Does somebody here want to bite the bullet and buy it?


----------



## potanx

sir, i just found this thread, and from the first post i read, AD700 is the best for competitive gaming but too bad that's discontinued and when i try to search it on amazon the price for new is 5x from the review price(under $100) and that's my only budget, so is there any headphone under $100 can beat AD700? for competitive gaming?
  
 and how about takstar TS-671 is that good for competitive gaming?
  
 thank you, sorry if there any inapropriate words.


----------



## AxelCloris

potanx said:


> sir, i just found this thread, and from the first post i read, AD700 is the best for competitive gaming but too bad that's discontinued and when i try to search it on amazon the price for new is 5x from the review price(under $100) and that's my only budget, so is there any headphone under $100 can beat AD700? for competitive gaming?
> 
> and how about takstar TS-671 is that good for competitive gaming?
> 
> thank you, sorry if there any inapropriate words.


 
  
 AD700 was replaced with the AD700x. Enjoy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

potanx said:


> sir, i just found this thread, and from the first post i read, AD700 is the best for competitive gaming but too bad that's discontinued and when i try to search it on amazon the price for new is 5x from the review price(under $100) and that's my only budget, so is there any headphone under $100 can beat AD700? for competitive gaming?
> 
> and how about takstar TS-671 is that good for competitive gaming?
> 
> thank you, sorry if there any inappropriate words.


 
  
 Sennheiser HD558 headphones.
 Buy a used HD558 and remove the black rubber tape from inside the cups.
  
 This is the cable I got for use with my HD558s
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261255113290?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=560215640802&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 Takstar TS-671 is a good headphone for it's price, but I prefer my HD558 over my TS-671.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I think SOMEONE just got a woody!
> I'm still waiting to hear if Atmos has a headphone processing option. Till then, the tech is pointless for me.
> And I'd still suspect that DDL decoding, processing, and outputting digitally through optical (without the PC "What U Hear" song and dance) will be blocked by Dolby licensing requirements. Maybe I'll be wrong BUT NO DDL DECODER YET HAS NATIVELY ALLOWED DIGITAL OUTPUT OF THE FINAL PROCESSED AUDIO. I'm not holding my breath.




Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either. Sigh, I wonder why they wouldn't do it though...?

The audio market is slightly getting more attention than before. When I started following this thread back in late 2013, the term audiophile was new to me and as well to a lot of gamers out there. Nowadays, companies like Logitech or corsair want to add audiophile and gaming headset together and actually trying to create good sound as opposed to like cheapo headsets from the yesteryears.

With that said, you would think creative could implement something so simple, especially if they are reading into this thread quite constantly.

Oh well..


----------



## cdsa35000

evshrug said:


> I think SOMEONE just got a woody!
> I'm still waiting to hear if Atmos has a headphone processing option. Till then, the tech is pointless for me.
> And I'd still suspect that DDL decoding, processing, and outputting digitally through optical (without the PC "What U Hear" song and dance) will be blocked by Dolby licensing requirements. Maybe I'll be wrong BUT NO DDL DECODER YET HAS NATIVELY ALLOWED DIGITAL OUTPUT OF THE FINAL PROCESSED AUDIO. I'm not holding my breath.



What you want doesn't make sense, you want the incoming DD/5.1 signal to be processed by an effects DSP that normally outputs to loudspeakers, you want that reprocessed audio to be output as DD/5.1? 
And then that DD/5.1 gonna be decoded again to another DD/5.1 decoder?

DDL on pc do what it does, Live decoding any 2.0/2.1/5.1/7.1 PC Audio from games or 5.1 aac/mp3/dts movies into the standard optical DD/5.1 output.
And it can bypass unprocessed any real DD/5.1 audio from dvd/blueray movies or real DD coded games directly through that optical DD/5.1 output.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i bought  the sentheizer gamezeros  but the sound is  very low why;;;
 i put  them in the  100 and the sound is like 20 and 30 volume
 i put the amplier in the  high  gain  60--300  ohms  but  the sound is very low any ideas;'; why;;
 why;;;
   i have  the asus sonar stx
  
  
 did i do something  wrong;;;


----------



## Evshrug

helvetica bold said:


> Did you guys see the new Astro A40TR, or am I behind? Looks interesting I was hoping they would add DTSX but nah.
> 
> http://www.astrogaming.com/tr-landing/tr-landing.html
> 
> ...







yethal said:


> Don't tell me, another A40 rerelease? With no actual changes to the hardware itself?
> 
> EDIT: Looks like I was wrong. The Mixamp itself has changed. Does somebody here want to bite the bullet and buy it?




I tried the A40 a few days ago at GameStop, I was surprised at the pleasing sound and comfort for a closed headphone. It's a bit higher priced because of the mic and gaming branding, but the sound isn't flawed: punchy, relatively low distortion and good clarity. At first there was terrible and LOUD garbled noise while testing it with my source (iPhone 5S), but that cleaned up moments after I put my phone into airplane mode (their kiosk isn't EMI shielded I guess). But yeah, despite the mall environment, use and abuse of a demo (headband had twisting memory from dangling by the cord), and crappy electronics, it sounded pretty good.

I'd test it and review if Astro sent me one 




rudyae86 said:


> Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either. Sigh, I wonder why they wouldn't do it though...?



Because Dolby won't let them. That's what I've been getting at.




cdsa35000 said:


> What you want doesn't make sense, you want ...



What I, rudyrae, conquerator2, Mad Lust Envy, Stillhart, and probably many others WANT is something that can take the Dolby/DTS home theater-style surround from a console, decode it out of that, use a DSP to make a headphone-style surround signal (which would result in a stereo signal with the effects of surround mixed-in), and then output that headphone mix out digitally to a nice typical audiophile quality DAC (and then the rest of the signal chain). Again, console out>home-theater style surround digital signal>Headphone style surround > PCM optical out> a nice DAC.

**** Dolby or DTS, we don't need a resultant signal in those formats, it's just that with CONSOLES (the source we focus on in this thread) we have to convert from that to something (like SBX headphone or whatever) intended to go to stereo headphones and still have surround imaging. HDMI could send a multichannel signal without encoding/compressing it into Dolby/DTS, but right now there aren't any devices on the market with an HDMI input and a DSP which can make a good headphone surround mix, much less also output that digitally to a stereo DAC.


----------



## MattKelly

Alright, so quick update on my quest to find a closed back headphone for competitive gaming. I've narrowed it down to the final two contenders, either the AKG K553 Pro or the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32 Ohm. Either headphone would be used with a unidirectional ModMic 4.0 and Astro's new MixAmp Pro TR (which honestly looks like a great update to the MixAmp Pro - especially the EQ tuning). So here are my thoughts on each headphone, as of now. Perhaps someone that has heard both can help me with this final decision!

*- AKG K553 Pro:* Well, it's a 32 Ohm headphone, so despite the MixAmp being weak these should be driven just fine. It seems like these headphones receive a lot of love/hate, with the consensus being that if you can achieve a proper seal then you will love them. From what I've read, achieving a seal with a smaller head can be difficult, however since I have a rather large head and do not wear glasses I don't think there should be any problem here. I've had experience in the past with my ears touching drivers on narrow headphones (V-Moda M-100 without XL pads, for example) and am concerned that this might happen again with the K553 Pro. Not a huge deal breaker if it does, but perhaps something to consider? As far as sound quality is concerned - again, my main priority is competitive gaming, so I need the most accurate positioning I can get out of a closed set of headphones (they must isolate well for noisy LAN tournaments - and also minimum leakage is a plus because I'll be playing late at night with my girlfriend asleep in the same room).

*- Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32 Ohm: *Again, 32 Ohm here, so in theory they should be driven just fine by the MixAmp - however I have read that the sensitivity of these heaphones may require some additional amping to get the most out of them, despite their low impedance (would the MixAmp be enough in this case?). I've read that these have incredibly accurate positioning for a closed headphone, however the strong bass detracts from the ability to take advantage of that imaging in competitive gaming. I'm thinking I can get around this with the new custom EQ'ing in Astro's updated MixAmp Pro TR (would a simple EQ even be enough though?) If the EQ can make these sufficient for competitive gaming then that would be a plus, as I'd be able to take advantage of the DT770's fun sound signature for my music (I like bass in my music - but again, that is not the priority here whatsoever - positioning is #1). I know that I can do the mod with the holes near the yokes to reduce/eliminate the bass, however I'd prefer the MixAmp's EQ solution to easily switch between competing, music, and movies (again, only if the MixAmp EQ is sufficient enough to prevent the DT770's bass from muddying up the positional accuracy of these headphones). Regardless of all these tweaks though, does the DT770 even beat out the K553 in this department?
  
 Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help me out! I really appreciate it.


----------



## Evshrug

jim arvanitakis said:


> i bought  the sentheizer gamezeros  but the sound is  very low why?
> i put  them in the  100 and the sound is like 20 and 30 volume
> i put the amplier in the  high  gain  60--300  ohms  but  the sound is very low any ideas?
> why?
> ...



Not sure. The STX should be enough from what I've read in reviews, but I don't know for sure because I've never owned one. I focus more on console gaming.

First thing I would try though is making sure the cable is plugged all the way into the headphone, and all the way into the STX.


----------



## Stillhart

shuto77 said:


> Yes, I want details on this... Er... Not this, but the new Fostex/MD can, lol.


 
  
 Moe wrote up a bit on it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/778877/review-questyle-audio-qp1r-with-multiple-headphone-and-iem-pairings#post_11866013


----------



## cdsa35000

evshrug said:


> I tried the A40 a few days ago at GameStop, I was surprised at the pleasing sound and comfort for a closed headphone. It's a bit higher priced because of the mic and gaming branding, but the sound isn't flawed: punchy, relatively low distortion and good clarity. At first there was terrible and LOUD garbled noise while testing it with my source (iPhone 5S), but that cleaned up moments after I put my phone into airplane mode (their kiosk isn't EMI shielded I guess). But yeah, despite the mall environment, use and abuse of a demo (headband had twisting memory from dangling by the cord), and crappy electronics, it sounded pretty good.
> 
> I'd test it and review if Astro sent me one
> Because Dolby won't let them. That's what I've been getting at.
> ...



Ok, the manufacturer don't think there is demand for it? 
Did you contact the manufacturer for this function?, It be could be updated in the firmware to pass the processed signal through optical out easily?
---


----------



## inseconds99

stillhart said:


> Moe wrote up a bit on it here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/778877/review-questyle-audio-qp1r-with-multiple-headphone-and-iem-pairings#post_11866013


 
 100% chance I buy those. #cantwait


----------



## inseconds99

Teaser: I purchased a pair of Fidelio X2's, MA900's and SHP9500's with the boom pro mic. I will be doing another comparison review similar to this http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/30840#post_11643573 as soon as I can.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

the camble is ok
  
 is  back in the stx


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Because Dolby won't let them. That's what I've been getting at.
> What I, rudyrae, conquerator2, Mad Lust Envy, Stillhart, and probably many others WANT is something that can take the Dolby/DTS home theater-style surround from a console, decode it out of that, use a DSP to make a headphone-style surround signal (which would result in a stereo signal with the effects of surround mixed-in), and then output that headphone mix out digitally to a nice typical audiophile quality DAC (and then the rest of the signal chain). Again, console out>home-theater style surround digital signal>Headphone style surround > PCM optical out> a nice DAC.


 
 Soo, a Smyth Realizer without the dac/amp portion? That's actually not a bad idea I wonder if they still work on that thing. A smaller and cheaper Realizer would be cool.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

i thought that gamezero were good such as my asus stx

but i am very disapointed with the sound

gamezero does have big sound

i put the volume in 100 and when i play games i dont hear a lof sound
  
 can someone help me please;;


----------



## rudyae86

inseconds99 said:


> Teaser: I purchased a pair of Fidelio X2's, MA900's and SHP9500's with the boom pro mic. I will be doing another comparison review similar to this http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/30840#post_11643573 as soon as I can.




Oooh, I am very interested in your comparison because.....I have all three muahahahha. 

Though I'm only using my X2 for now. My MA900 I have not used for like a year. SHP9500 used them for a month or so but it's been about 7 months since I have used them. Even my K7XX hasn't seen much use ever since I got my X2. I think my M50 gets more use than the K7XX.

Maybe I should try the MA900 again and see how it sounds and comparing it with the x2 and K7XX. ....

Hopefully you will give us your comparisons soon.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Soo, a Smyth Realizer without the dac/amp portion? That's actually not a bad idea I wonder if they still work on that thing. A smaller and cheaper Realizer would be cool.



Yeah, the (very expensive) Smyth Realizer is pretty much ideal except in cost.

Weren't you around for discussion of "the dongle?" Was around (before or just after) the X7 release, because that was the first computer-independent (non-Smyth) headphone DSP device with an optical out. And we had hoped it might be able to output a headphone mix, but your method has been (so far) the only one that worked (without ADC).

Side note, wonder if your method could also have been possible with the cheaper Recon3D USB?


----------



## DarkEthereal

Does anyone know anything about the Creative Soundblaster X-Fi MB3 software suite?

 It seems it can offer SBX Pro without having to purchase a creative soundcard.

 I already use a cheap and cheerful Xonar DG soundcard, and I was wondering if the creative software would work with it, or whether it would only work with realtek onboard sound or something.
 If it would work, I'd consider purchasing it, since I've heard good things about it compared to Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jim arvanitakis said:


> [COLOR=181818]i thought that gamezero were good such as my asus stx[/COLOR][COLOR=181818]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=181818]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=181818]but i am very disapointed with the sound[/COLOR][COLOR=181818]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=181818]
> ...




Sounds like one of your settings is dead wrong. Volume at 100 should blow the drivers out of the game zero. make sure the volume control on the actual headset is turned up. There IS a volume wheel on the Game Zero's ear cup IIRC. That has to be maxed out, and then adjust the volume settings on your PC. I'm certian this is the problem. The problem tends to be something simple. 

I do fear how your software settings are though. It's not exactly plug and play to get the proper experience.

Sennheiser headset volume maxed out
Windows sound set to 5.1 speakers
STX settings set to dolby headphone ON

etc. I don't have the STX, but if any one of these things is incorrect, you're not going to get proper surround for gaming. Then you have to turn OFF the surround if you're listening to stereo stuff like Youtube videos, music, that isn't properly giving out surround.

This is why I don't deal with PC audio questions normally. Too many things that can go wrong.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Yeah, the (very expensive) Smyth Realizer is pretty much ideal except in cost.
> 
> Weren't you around for discussion of "the dongle?" Was around (before or just after) the X7 release, because that was the first computer-independent (non-Smyth) headphone DSP device with an optical out. And we had hoped it might be able to output a headphone mix, but your method has been (so far) the only one that worked (without ADC).
> 
> Side note, wonder if your method could also have been possible with the cheaper Recon3D USB?




I'm intrigued by this "dongle" You Gus speak of..... and no, not that dongle


----------



## NamelessPFG

darkethereal said:


> Does anyone know anything about the Creative Soundblaster X-Fi MB3 software suite?
> 
> It seems it can offer SBX Pro without having to purchase a creative soundcard.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been experimenting with it a bit on my notebook, but Windows 10 was a bit of a wake-up call in that volume adjustment no longer works properly.
  
 With the X-Fi MB3 device as the default, it's either mute or whatever your Realtek volume's set at, and because the native Realtek device is NOT the default, that's not what gets adjusted by the volume controls.
  
 This wasn't a problem in Windows 8.1, so who knows if Creative's ever going to fix it...


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yeah, the (very expensive) Smyth Realizer is pretty much ideal except in cost.
> 
> Weren't you around for discussion of "the dongle?" Was around (before or just after) the X7 release, because that was the first computer-independent (non-Smyth) headphone DSP device with an optical out. And we had hoped it might be able to output a headphone mix, but your method has been (so far) the only one that worked (without ADC).
> 
> Side note, wonder if your method could also have been possible with the cheaper Recon3D USB?


 
 Well, the DSP dongle would be pretty much perfect here. That's what I'm hoping the Sound Blaster G5 would be. But, if it really works with both PC and consoles, and it does output SBX through optical then it would probably be THE virtual surround device here.
  
 As for the What U Hear trick, it's not actually my method. NamelessPFG figured it out years ago, I just brought it here. And yes, it should work on any combination of audio devices.
  


rudyae86 said:


> I'm intrigued by this "dongle" You Gus speak of..... and no, not that dongle


  

 There was a discussion here about a year ago about the perfect virtual surround device, and the consensus was that a perfect device would just be a dongle receiving multichannel audio signal and outputting a two channel signal to an external dac/amp. This would allow much greater customizability than what we have now.


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

hi my name is jim and today i bought gamezero sentheizer

i have my asus xonar stx but i have some questions

gamezero is 150 ohms headset but i put the 150 ohms from the amplier from asus stx and the volume was too slow i was putting 100 and in all the games the sound was low

but after i put the 300-600 ohms from the amplier from my asus stx the sound was fantastic and very loud and avesome

my question is will i have problems now which i put 300-600 ohms;;

because gamezero is 150 ohms...


but if i put 150 ohms the sound is very low in alla the games ,,, music and movies

but when i put 300-600 ohms the sound is superb 
  
because when i put 150 ohms i have low sound

i put in the volume 100 and the sounds looks like 20 and 30
  
and when i put from the amplier of the asus stx 300-600 ohms the sound was fantastic and the sound was blow my ears very fanstastic


so did i do something bad;;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis

look in the asus stx software is telling me 

normal gain or for 64ohms headsets

high gain for 300 ohms headsets

extra high gain for 300--600ohms headsets

when i choose the high gain for 300 ohms headsets when i was playing games ,,,or music 

i was puting the volume at 100 and the sound was too low 

but when i choose the extra high gain for 300--600ohms headsets 
the sound was very loud and i was very impresed

do you understand what i mean now;;


----------



## Jim Arvanitakis




----------



## rudyae86

It might be a driver problem. Have you used the Uni drivers? They are waaaaay better than the Asus Drivers.


----------



## MattKelly

mattkelly said:


> Alright, so quick update on my quest to find a closed back headphone for competitive gaming. I've narrowed it down to the final two contenders, either the AKG K553 Pro or the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 32 Ohm. Either headphone would be used with a unidirectional ModMic 4.0 and Astro's new MixAmp Pro TR (which honestly looks like a great update to the MixAmp Pro - especially the EQ tuning). So here are my thoughts on each headphone, as of now. Perhaps someone that has heard both can help me with this final decision!
> 
> *- AKG K553 Pro:* Well, it's a 32 Ohm headphone, so despite the MixAmp being weak these should be driven just fine. It seems like these headphones receive a lot of love/hate, with the consensus being that if you can achieve a proper seal then you will love them. From what I've read, achieving a seal with a smaller head can be difficult, however since I have a rather large head and do not wear glasses I don't think there should be any problem here. I've had experience in the past with my ears touching drivers on narrow headphones (V-Moda M-100 without XL pads, for example) and am concerned that this might happen again with the K553 Pro. Not a huge deal breaker if it does, but perhaps something to consider? As far as sound quality is concerned - again, my main priority is competitive gaming, so I need the most accurate positioning I can get out of a closed set of headphones (they must isolate well for noisy LAN tournaments - and also minimum leakage is a plus because I'll be playing late at night with my girlfriend asleep in the same room).
> 
> ...




Just when I thought I had narrowed it down to two (sigh...) I'm now throwing the SoundMAGIC HP150 into the mix. Any final thoughts here on which of these closed back cans will give me the best positional audio for competitive gaming with the new MixAmp Pro TR? Again, I'm down to these three:

- AKG K553 Pro
- Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (32 Ohm Edition)
- SoundMAGIC HP150

Really would love some advice - thanks, guys!


----------



## Evshrug

cdsa35000 said:


> Ok, the manufacturer don't think there is demand for it?
> Did you contact the manufacturer for this function?, It be could be updated in the firmware to pass the processed signal through optical out easily?
> ---



It probably is easy to add on a technical level. We have asked Creative, FiiO, and Smyth, but I honestly don't know if there is a lot of demand right now... I figure a lot of gamers still don't know about virtual surround, but the potential for demand is great if gamers start learning about it.

Seeing as how Creative has their own DACs and Amps (if the G5 is anything like the E5 I just got, it's going to be a nice piece of kit and a clear upgrade from the Recon3D/Mixamp days), there might be fear of canibalizing sales from their hardware. However, maybe they don't feel that way, as most of their PC devices have an optical out option? So, that's why I concluded it was a Dolby thing where they won't allow the output, but IDK for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For the STX, DON'T use the normal gain. All that does is forcibly limit the volume output, it's not changing the impedance. Unless you find your volume moving from low to high too fast, always put the STX at high gain. That's just letting it use all of it's potential. I swear, if you've been complaining about volume WHILE keeping the STX at normal gain, you can only blame yourself.

The labelling of -300-600ohm is just that, a blanket label that doesn't actually mean anything for the STX. It just means that the STX will unlock all it's potential volume. You aren't doing any harm to headphones with that setting. It's still the same impedance, same amp, same everything, just all if it's volume unlocked. Obviously, don't put it so loud that it will blow the drivers. Just put it at your preferred volume.

It can say High gain 600ohm, there will be 24-50ohm headphones (as an example) that WILL need that setting to achieve proper volume.

*PUT IT AT HIGH GAIN. DON'T LOOK AT THE OHM NUMBER. DISREGARD THAT. PROBLEM SOLVED*.

Companies like Asus need to stop using ohm ratings as a reference to what kind of gain you should use. There are 600ohm headphones that are easily driven in volume, and there are 24ohm headphones that need MORE power than the 600ohm.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've spent a fair amount of time today gaming on the Ether. When I removed them from my head and switched back to my 5.1 after I was done playing in parties, my actual surround system didn't sound as enjoyable as the Ether. That speaks volumes considering I have a Denon/DefTech setup.


----------



## Sam21

Come on...Everyone knows high-end headphones sound better than speakers....doesn't surprise me.


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> I've spent a fair amount of time today gaming on the Ether. When I removed them from my head and switched back to my 5.1 after I was done playing in parties, my actual surround system didn't sound as enjoyable as the Ether. That speaks volumes considering I have a Denon/DefTech setup.



Same deal with the HD800. Scaling up to flagship level with speakers is an expensive proposition though!


----------



## Hansotek

sam21 said:


> Come on...Everyone knows high-end headphones sound better than speakers....doesn't surprise me.



Haha. Depends on the speakers!


----------



## Sam21

yeah .. true.
  
 I was under the impression that they are ****ty logitech surround speakers or something....


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> yeah .. true.
> 
> I was under the impression that they are ****ty logitech surround speakers or something....


 

 Not quite. 
  
 http://smile.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-ProCinema-1000-System/dp/B009LL8GUU/


----------



## MattKelly

mattkelly said:


> Just when I thought I had narrowed it down to two (sigh...) I'm now throwing the SoundMAGIC HP150 into the mix. Any final thoughts here on which of these closed back cans will give me the best positional audio for competitive gaming with the new MixAmp Pro TR? Again, I'm down to these three:
> 
> - AKG K553 Pro
> - Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (32 Ohm Edition)
> ...


 
 No love here? Would really appreciate any insight!


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> Not quite.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-ProCinema-1000-System/dp/B009LL8GUU/


 
 Hmmmm what do you do for a living? lol JK
  
 Dam thats not your typical speaker set up.
  
 If I ever made a purchase like that, well.........I wouldnt buy anthing else for the rest of the year lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't tried any of those so I can't give you a valid opinion.

Guys, question: for those with an AX720 or if you know... Would the Turtle Beach ps4 chat cable work with the puck? I assume the AX720 has the same input as the Mixamp for the controller side chat. I see the puck has a controller input, but not sure it's compatible with the TB ps4 chat cable, and he lives in Rhode Island so I can't confirm. I ask, because my friend has the AX720 and JUST got a ps4. I told him to buy the Boompro for his X2, as well as the chat cable for the AX720 puck. Now I'm afraid I screwed up.

Been way too long since I had the AX720 around the house, so I forget if its a 2.5mm or 3.5mm controlled input.


----------



## hi2chris

mad lust envy said:


> Haven't tried any of those so I can't give you a valid opinion.
> 
> Guys, question: for those with an AX720 or if you know... Would the Turtle Beach ps4 chat cable work with the puck? I assume the AX720 has the same input as the Mixamp for the controller side chat. I see the puck has a controller input, but not sure it's compatible with the TB ps4 chat cable, and he lives in Rhode Island so I can't confirm. I ask, because my friend has the AX720 and JUST got a ps4. I told him to buy the Boompro for his X2, as well as the chat cable for the AX720 puck. Now I'm afraid I screwed up.
> 
> Been way too long since I had the AX720 around the house, so I forget if its a 2.5mm or 3.5mm controlled input.


 
 Not sure about the purpose of turtle beach chat cable but i connected my old headphones to the puck and a mod mic and it worked perfectly, a regular splitter for $4 would work.
  
 Was with my PS4.
  
 mind you this was some time ago since i have upgraded to the X7
  
 not sure if i'm way off base here and misunderstood what you were after


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He can't seem to get the Ax720 to work with the PS4 through USB, so I needed a cable between the puck's controller input, and the Dualshock 4's audio jack for chat purposes.


----------



## Blze001

mattkelly said:


> No love here? Would really appreciate any insight!


 
  
 I have a pair of K550s and they have an amazingly large soundstage for closed back headphones, pretty excellent for gaming. I haven't heard DT770s personally, but what I've been able to deduce is they'll have better bass but a slightly smaller soundstage.
  
 I really don't see you being disappointed with any of the three, so just go with what you can get the best deal on. I lean towards AKG (fanboyism), the Beyer, then SoundMAGIC... just because I know nothing about SoundMAGIC.


----------



## hi2chris

mad lust envy said:


> He can't seem to get the Ax720 to work with the PS4 through USB, so I needed a cable between the puck's controller input, and the Dualshock 4's audio jack for chat purposes.


 

 very odd i had no such issues, maybe a difference between the ax720 and AX720+


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> Hmmmm what do you do for a living? lol JK
> 
> Dam thats not your typical speaker set up.
> 
> If I ever made a purchase like that, well.........I wouldnt buy anthing else for the rest of the year lol


 
  
 I've had my 5.1 cinema setup since I worked for Magnolia Home Theater years ago. Trust me when I say I paid nowhere near market price on my setup.
  
 Only two headphones in my experience have given me a superior experience when gaming to an actual 5.1 system, the HE1000 and now my Ether. If anyone is considering either for gaming, they're both excellent choices.


----------



## arj154

Hi

 I've bought the Wireless Playstation Headset 2.0 (Playstation Gold in the us) on a whim for my ps4 as my 5.1 speakers have broken down. I was thinking of using it for a while before I got a nice pair of gaming headphones which require a bit more of a serious investment. However from what I've read, the performance isn't up to par with others? Is it worse than the m50x? Because If I return these, I will be playing games with my m50x plugged into my ps4 controller because that would be better than the terrible Samsung TV speaker. Is it worth keeping the wireless Playstation headset (I think its called Playstation Gold in the USA)? Is there a better pair of gaming headphones for the same price or are the m50x adequate for gaming? Preferably I would like it to be either wireless or able to plug in to the ps4 controller. I think I'll invest in a decent pair of headphones with a Astro 5.8 mixamp at a later date.


----------



## inseconds99

rudyae86 said:


> Oooh, I am very interested in your comparison because.....I have all three muahahahha.
> 
> Though I'm only using my X2 for now. My MA900 I have not used for like a year. SHP9500 used them for a month or so but it's been about 7 months since I have used them. Even my K7XX hasn't seen much use ever since I got my X2. I think my M50 gets more use than the K7XX.
> 
> ...


 
 I will try to get it done this weekend, no promises though. Here is a hint though, the SPH9500 + Boom Pro Mic might be my go to recommendation for gaming headphones going forward. Need more time to test as I only got them on Sunday.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Haven't tried any of those so I can't give you a valid opinion.
> 
> Guys, question: for those with an AX720 or if you know... Would the Turtle Beach ps4 chat cable work with the puck? I assume the AX720 has the same input as the Mixamp for the controller side chat. I see the puck has a controller input, but not sure it's compatible with the TB ps4 chat cable, and he lives in Rhode Island so I can't confirm. I ask, because my friend has the AX720 and JUST got a ps4. I told him to buy the Boompro for his X2, as well as the chat cable for the AX720 puck. Now I'm afraid I screwed up.
> 
> Been way too long since I had the AX720 around the house, so I forget if its a 2.5mm or 3.5mm controlled input.


 
 I have this cable (3.5mm from controller to 2.5mm) and it does work perfectly with the Mixamp so it should work with AX720 too.


----------



## MattKelly

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!

 Seriously... I just narrowed down my choice to the AKG K553 Pro because I felt like the DT 770 32 Ohm wouldn't be driven well with the MixAmp alone (because of sensitivity, not impedance). So I went to Guitar Center in Manhattan to try on the AKG K553 - when I was there, I asked if they had the 32 Ohm DT 770 (thought I'd try it on for fun) and he responds, "Nope, just the 16 ohm i version". THE 16 OHM i VERSION?! Seriously, I can't find ONE page on google, head-fi, anywhere, about a 16 ohm "i version"... yet there I was holding it in the store. I finally found SOMETHING on it - from guitar center's website. Am I going crazy here having never heard of this? Or is this so brand new that it's not even on google or beyerdynamic's site yet? SO CONFUSED...

 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Beyerdynamic/DT-770-i-Headphones.gc#productDetail


----------



## Hansotek

mattkelly said:


> WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!
> 
> Seriously... I just narrowed down my choice to the AKG K553 Pro because I felt like the DT 770 32 Ohm wouldn't be driven well with the MixAmp alone (because of sensitivity, not impedance). So I went to Guitar Center in Manhattan to try on the AKG K553 - when I was there, I asked if they had the 32 Ohm DT 770 (thought I'd try it on for fun) and he responds, "Nope, just the 16 ohm i version". THE 16 OHM i VERSION?! Seriously, I can't find ONE page on google, head-fi, anywhere, about a 16 ohm "i version"... yet there I was holding it in the store. I finally found SOMETHING on it - from guitar center's website. Am I going crazy here having never heard of this? Or is this so brand new that it's not even on google or beyerdynamic's site yet? SO CONFUSED...
> 
> http://www.guitarcenter.com/Beyerdynamic/DT-770-i-Headphones.gc#productDetail


 
  
 DT770i? Wow, I've never heard of that either, and I own lots of Beyers!


----------



## MattKelly

hansotek said:


> DT770i? Wow, I've never heard of that either, and I own lots of Beyers!


 
 I did some serious digging to find more info on it. By reverse image searching the photos of it on Guitar Center's site, I was able to find some other sites that had it listed as well. They all had a "NEW" logo on the product page, so I guess I must have just seen one of the first ones ever produced (they literally only had one in the store). Unfortunately they closed for the night before I could try them out...


----------



## rudyae86

mattkelly said:


> WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?!
> 
> 
> Seriously... I just narrowed down my choice to the AKG K553 Pro because I felt like the DT 770 32 Ohm wouldn't be driven well with the MixAmp alone (because of sensitivity, not impedance). So I went to Guitar Center in Manhattan to try on the AKG K553 - when I was there, I asked if they had the 32 Ohm DT 770 (thought I'd try it on for fun) and he responds, "Nope, just the 16 ohm i version". THE 16 OHM i VERSION?! Seriously, I can't find ONE page on google, head-fi, anywhere, about a 16 ohm "i version"... yet there I was holding it in the store. I finally found SOMETHING on it - from guitar center's website. Am I going crazy here having never heard of this? Or is this so brand new that it's not even on google or beyerdynamic's site yet? SO CONFUSED...
> ...




I was there just a few hours ago and I did see those 770i, I was like What?

I didn't ask them about it or anything but I'll have to see what they are really up to with those 16ohm drivers...


----------



## Hansotek

rudyae86 said:


> I was there just a few hours ago and I did see those 770i, I was like What?
> 
> I didn't ask them about it or anything but I'll have to see what they are really up to with those 16ohm drivers...


 
  
 I still love the bassy sound sig on the old 80ohm pro. They aren't exactly transparent, but they sure are fun to listen to.


----------



## MattKelly

rudyae86 said:


> I was there just a few hours ago and I did see those 770i, I was like What?
> 
> I didn't ask them about it or anything but I'll have to see what they are really up to with those 16ohm drivers...


 
 Haha, that's too ironic. Yeah, had I tried them I don't think I would have been of much help to this forum, considering I've only ever heard the MMX 300 for comparison.


----------



## rudyae86

mattkelly said:


> Haha, that's too ironic. Yeah, had I tried them I don't think I would have been of much help to this forum, considering I've only ever heard the MMX 300 for comparison.


 

 I also saw the Custom Studio? (I think they are the Custom One Pro, because they look identical yet the name is different)
  
 I wonder what Beyer is doing with their line up......?


----------



## MattKelly

rudyae86 said:


> I also saw the Custom Studio? (I think they are the Custom One Pro, because they look identical yet the name is different)
> 
> I wonder what Beyer is doing with their line up......?


 
 I noticed that too, actually. Strange...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Custom Teslas coming as well. Rumored T1880 but that's a T80 style rumor for me right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> I have this cable (3.5mm from controller to 2.5mm) and it does work perfectly with the Mixamp so it should work with AX720 too.




No. AX720 is a 3.5mm input for the controller. Mixamp is 2.5mm. It won't work.

In the near/far future I'm ONLY interested in wireless headphones for a closed headphone solution. Hell, At this point, I wouldn't mind going all wireless, open and closed. I'd just hope the Wireless headphone has a proper transmitter with a 3.5mm input so I could hook up a virtual surround amp (non-working X7 atm).

I'm in that part of my life where convenience trumps sound quality. Obviously, the best SQ for the money would be nice.


----------



## raband

Was asking about the Senn RS185's (or similar) a few pages ago being fed from one of the options.
  
 RCA to 3.5mm cable via a mixamp for the console, optical using "what you hear" for the PC
  
 I reckon they could be viable.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> No. AX720 is a 3.5mm input for the controller. Mixamp is 2.5mm. It won't work.


 
 My mistake, sorry. From the looks of it the 3.5mm jack is a 3-pole one and not a 4-pole one, so my best guess is that it is internally wired just like the 2.5mm jack in the x360 controller so a 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter on a PS4 chat cable would work. 3.5mm 4-pole plug from the controller to 3.5mm 3-pole plug on the AX720


----------



## DarkEthereal

namelesspfg said:


> I've been experimenting with it a bit on my notebook, but Windows 10 was a bit of a wake-up call in that volume adjustment no longer works properly.
> 
> With the X-Fi MB3 device as the default, it's either mute or whatever your Realtek volume's set at, and because the native Realtek device is NOT the default, that's not what gets adjusted by the volume controls.
> 
> This wasn't a problem in Windows 8.1, so who knows if Creative's ever going to fix it...


 


 Eeeeehhh, that doesn't really answer what I wanted to know.

 I would like to know if it'll function with my Xonar DG, (or if it works with any Xonar card).

 Basically to get SBX I can either try to buy that and stick with my Xonar DG, or buy a new soundcard. ATM my Xonar seems to be giving me good sound (though I don't know if it's of a level of quality appropriate for my Fidelio X1s...), and i don't think I'll be able to get a Creative card of comparable quality that comes with SBX, for cheaper than buying the MB3 software.

 I don't really feel like upgrading my soundcard for qualities sake right now because I feel like getting something significantly better than my Xonar DG will cost more than I can justify and I probably won't hear much difference...

 I've got other things I want to blow money on, ya know?


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, that's the point of the software... To get the software suite to use with your existing hardware.


----------



## Sam21

just got my Panasonic RP-HTF600-S today, AMAZING sound for cheap....73 CDN dollars well spent.


----------



## JPopJRockFan

mad lust envy said:


> For the STX, DON'T use the normal gain. All that does is forcibly limit the volume output, it's not changing the impedance. Unless you find your volume moving from low to high too fast, always put the STX at high gain. That's just letting it use all of it's potential. I swear, if you've been complaining about volume WHILE keeping the STX at normal gain, you can only blame yourself.
> 
> The labelling of -300-600ohm is just that, a blanket label that doesn't actually mean anything for the STX. It just means that the STX will unlock all it's potential volume. You aren't doing any harm to headphones with that setting. It's still the same impedance, same amp, same everything, just all if it's volume unlocked. Obviously, don't put it so loud that it will blow the drivers. Just put it at your preferred volume.
> 
> ...


 
 Just to support this, does everyone wonder why an HE-6 needs more power than the likes of a Beyerdynamic T1 or a DT880/990 600 ohms? The HE-6 is incredibly insensitive, thats why. Plus, impedance doesn't really mean much in terms of how hard a headphone is to drive provided the sensitivity is high enough.


----------



## wadec22

mad lust envy said:


> No. AX720 is a 3.5mm input for the controller. Mixamp is 2.5mm. It won't work.
> 
> In the near/far future I'm ONLY interested in wireless headphones for a closed headphone solution. Hell, At this point, I wouldn't mind going all wireless, open and closed. I'd just hope the Wireless headphone has a proper transmitter with a 3.5mm input so I could hook up a virtual surround amp (non-working X7 atm).
> 
> I'm in that part of my life where convenience trumps sound quality. Obviously, the best SQ for the money would be nice.


 
 Interesting as that is what happened to me not that long ago.  Hit mid thirties added a toddler, now wires are just inconvenient  Ditched my nicer hardware for a mixamp, sennheiser rs 180s and a desktop mic.  its a great setup and i'm really pleased with it.  however the audiophile in me still rears his ugly head.... i'm regularly trying to decide if i should replace the mixamp with a x7.


----------



## MattKelly

I really want to know what the deal is with this DT 770 i 16 Ohm edition. I'm probably gonna head to guitar center later today/tomorrow to check it out again. Anyone heard anything more on this?


----------



## Evshrug

wadec22 said:


> Interesting as that is what happened to me not that long ago.  Hit mid thirties added a toddler, now wires are just inconvenient  Ditched my nicer hardware for a mixamp, sennheiser rs 180s and a desktop mic.  its a great setup and i'm really pleased with it.  however the audiophile in me still rears his ugly head.... i'm regularly trying to decide if i should replace the mixamp with a x7.




I've got a friend here in Pittsburgh who has been eyeing my X7 setup and wanting to get one for himself, but he is also going to be making use of the speaker amp part of it too. If you aren't going to make use of SBX processing, headphone amp, and speaker amp (for bedroom/office/apartment/something), then you'll probably want to look into Creative's G5. It's not out yet, but if it's as capable as the E5 I've been listening to for the past few days, and able to decode Game Console surround, then the G5 is going to be a very convenient headphone option and a true successor to the Recon3D. Maybe put some of the money saved towards a Bluetooth module to plug into the PS4 for those times you need no wires between TV and you.


Astonish,
I haven't heard the DT770 or DT770i either, so I can't really weigh in. Very attractive looking, but hopefully the treble isn't as fatiguing as the only Beyer I've heard so far, the DT880.


----------



## wadec22

evshrug said:


> I've got a friend here in Pittsburgh who has been eyeing my X7 setup and wanting to get one for himself, but he is also going to be making use of the speaker amp part of it too. If you aren't going to make use of SBX processing, headphone amp, and speaker amp (for bedroom/office/apartment/something), then you'll probably want to look into Creative's G5. It's not out yet, but if it's as capable as the E5 I've been listening to for the past few days, and able to decode Game Console surround, then the G5 is going to be a very convenient headphone option and a true successor to the Recon3D. Maybe put some of the money saved towards a Bluetooth module to plug into the PS4 for those times you need no wires between TV and you.
> 
> 
> Astonish,
> I haven't heard the DT770 or DT770i either, so I can't really weigh in. Very attractive looking, but hopefully the treble isn't as fatiguing as the only Beyer I've heard so far, the DT880.




I've got my eye on the g5 for sure. Looks like the mixamp with a nicer dac. November cannot come soon enough.


----------



## NamelessPFG

darkethereal said:


> Eeeeehhh, that doesn't really answer what I wanted to know.
> 
> I would like to know if it'll function with my Xonar DG, (or if it works with any Xonar card).
> 
> ...


 
  
 I must've overlooked that part of your post. I wouldn't see any reason for it not to work, but at the same time, I would've found it redundant when you already have a Xonar. You're better off switching sound cards outright if you want Creative's DSP features, even if it does cost more money.
  
 To me, at least, the main benefit of X-Fi MB3 is for use with integrated audio codecs and USB DACs that don't have ANY form of virtual surround whatsoever. Using it with a non-Creative card never really crossed my mind.


----------



## rudyae86

wadec22 said:


> I've got my eye on the g5 for sure. Looks like the mixamp with a nicer dac. November cannot come soon enough.


 
 Better DAC maybe but definitely a better AMP too, especially compared to the Recon3D.
  
 I wonder if it will have some of the features that the X7 has? Well probably not all of them but Bluetooth hopefully comes with it. I could care less about NFC though.


----------



## Sam21

I am gonna buy the Blue Yeti Pro Mic, I am done with ****ty gaming mics.


----------



## AxelCloris

sam21 said:


> I am gonna buy the Blue Yeti Pro Mic, I am done with ****ty gaming mics.




If you're just using it for gaming, a normal Yeti should be plenty.


----------



## Sam21

yeah, but then I can only run it on PC and PS4 and not with Xbone or any sound cards because it is usb only and the Mic`s ADC is probably crap. I am planning to use it with mixamp, creative E5 and Recon3D and the Analog out lets you do those.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> If you're just using it for gaming, a normal Yeti should be plenty.




We have a Blue Yeti at work for recording webinars. It's a great mic, but it is quite large. Be sure you have a good spot for it you're going down that route.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Someone should make a wireless planar.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Someone should make a wireless planar.


 Not too hard to remove the wire between TV and seat, so long as you don't mind dropping surround sound.

What didn't you like about the HE-400, again?


----------



## MattKelly

I had a chance to go back to Guitar Center today and was able to directly compare the AKG K553 Pro and the new DT 770 "16 ohm i version". Unfortunately I've never heard any other versions of the DT 770 to draw any direct comparisons, but I can comment on how it matched up to the K553. The DT 770 was definitely more comfortable with deeper cups (ears didn't touch the driver like they did with the K553). The K553 soundstage was definitely more open than the DT 770, and the mids were more forward with more detail throughout the sound signature. The DT 770 was, of course, way more fun and colored with deep sub bass that would vibrate your head. The DT 770 gets the edge with isolation because they seal so much easier than the K553 (can still get a seal with the AKG, but you've really got to work for it). All in all, the K553 is more open sounding and would be better for competitve gaming, whereas the DT 770 is more comfortable, fun/colored, and isolating.

Now here's my question. Who thinks I can use the new MixAmp Pro TR's EQ feature to tune down the DT 770's bass far enough so that these would be good closed cans for competitve gaming? I wish I could say these were better than the K553 in that regard, but man the comfort/seal makes me want to just buy the DT 770 anyways. Anyone have any idea whether or not I could get away with tuning the DT 770 for competitive gaming with a MixAmp EQ alone?


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone else been enjoying Phantom Pain with their headphones?


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Anyone else been enjoying Phantom Pain with their headphones?


 
  
 That would require that I enjoy the MGS franchise. So...no.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Anyone else been enjoying Phantom Pain with their headphones?




This guy is right here!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Anyone else been enjoying Phantom Pain with their headphones?




One of my coworkers got the game and is living it, especially the sandbox freedom of how to win/play it. I liked Ground Zeros but that was my first Metal Gear game, I want the Phantom Pain but I'm afraid a lot of lore would be lost on me (like it was in Ground Zeros... Does that kid usually have a headphone jack in his chest??!?)


Astonish,
Good to hear about the K553... from your impression, seems like there honestly might be a little improvement in that model over the original K550. I'd probably pick that model, but that's a personal choice.

Beyers certainly are comfy. I've always heard that it's better to EQ down than up, so it ought to be pretty good, but you'll probably still hear some resonance and bloom. I don't know for sure though, as I haven't had a DT770 myself, and besides the M-100 I haven't had a headphone I felt like toning down the bass with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love Metal Gear Solid, but it's the type of series, that unless you started from Solid, is hard to appreciate.

Unfortunately, I absolute abhor open world games in general, and the move to open world for the series since Ground Zeroes, essentially just killed the series for me. I'm sorry, but I prefer a linear, focused direction. Sandbox style games can go extinct for all I care. A damn shame, because I was I loved MGS all the way through 4, but I'm not going to stick through this open world crap. I downloaded Ground Zeroes, and it absolutely just turned me off.

If Uncharted 4 is open world, that's the end of that series for me too.


----------



## Evshrug

I loved the Splinter Cell games (haven't tried blacklist where suddenly Sam's young), and I got trained by the first one to try to puzzle out how to take out opponents without a gun. Crazy challenge kind of thing, but it was satisfying when you did it. Even moreso in Chaos Theory, where unimportant grunts would have unique and hilarious dialogue when you grabbed them and scared them with your knife! Classic.

So, I played around with MGS:GZ for awhile just taking people out with underpowered armnament, listening to story item discoveries, etc. I don't think I have a way to play the old Metal Gear Solid, but I'll probably end up picking up the series here and there. I want to play Assassin's Creed 4 as well, lol. Right now, I just keep getting sucked back into pickup games of Rocket League, lol!


----------



## rudyae86

You guys are playing Metal Gear Ground Zero and Phantom Pain wrong. It's not about the gameplay, it's about the customers and the story line. Gameplay is just extra to make it feel like a game instead of a Movie...

Lol

But seriously, I haven't played Ground Zero yet mainly because I haven't had time to finish my backlog of games on steam and origin accounts. Plus I got like 8 games from Ubisoft using play for 10 bucks on a humble bundle deal.

It comes with the splinter cell series, well, some of them....

Only reason I am picking up those 2 games is because I've been playing most MGS games for a while....so the story line is important for me more than anything, even if the gameplay is meh.

Same thing with Resident Evil games, gameplay is meh, story line is mysterious...


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> You guys are playing Metal Gear Ground Zero and Phantom Pain wrong. It's not about the gameplay, it's about the customers and the story line. Gameplay is just extra to make it feel like a game instead of a Movie...
> 
> Lol
> 
> ...




Could not disagree more with your opinion about metal gear not being about gameplay. Every game has been innovative and been a benchmark for its generation.

Also resident evil gameplay was always ahead of its time, as much as I always disliked the fixed camera. Resi 4 also opened the door to third person shooters we know today...gears or war/ drakes uncharted


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> Could not disagree more with your opinion about metal gear not being about gameplay. Every game has been innovative and been a benchmark for its generation.
> 
> Also resident evil gameplay was always ahead of its time, as much as I always disliked the fixed camera. Resi 4 also opened the door to third person shooters we know today...gears or war/ drakes uncharted




I didn't mean to say every game lol. But let's be honest, after RE4, everything about the gameplay and feel wasn't scary anymore. I do however like the fixed camera from the earlier RE games because it gave it that scary feel for some reason. I love the MGS games and sorry I forgot to add sarcasm towards the end of the first paragraph lol.

Only reason I said it is because there are a lot of people who think the story is great but the gameplay itself is limited but it isn't. I use to play MGS2 and MGS3 several times from easiest to the hardest difficulty trying to get extras and whatnot. And every time I played it would turn out a bit different or I would do things differently.

So yeah first paragraphs.....add the sarcasm in there lol

But I do agree, these games gave us the breakthrough to 3rd persons shooters and even FPS to some point or both, like the Ghost recon games or rainbow six games. Man I love those games, so many memories lol


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> I didn't mean to say every game lol. But let's be honest, after RE4, everything about the gameplay and feel wasn't scary anymore. I do however like the fixed camera from the earlier RE games because it gave it that scary feel for some reason. I love the MGS games and sorry I forgot to add sarcasm towards the end of the first paragraph lol.
> 
> Only reason I said it is because there are a lot of people who think the story is great but the gameplay itself is limited but it isn't. I use to play MGS2 and MGS3 several times from easiest to the hardest difficulty trying to get extras and whatnot. And every time I played it would turn out a bit different or I would do things differently.
> 
> ...




For sure it was all downhill after resi 4! They really need to reboot and go back to their horror survival roots.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> For sure it was all downhill after resi 4! They really need to reboot and go back to their horror survival roots.


 
 Oh they definitely are, well at least RE2 I think. Google it, well, nothing much other than they announced that they will start with the project.....so they dont really have anything ready to show us something. Im willing to bet they will show us something next year at E3.
  
 I honestly think that RE1 and RE 0 gamecube versions should not be remade but only remastered, which I think they have. Second RE2, RE3 and Code Veronica X should be remade with new gen hardware. I just hope they keep it old school with camera angles, well...maybe change the camera angles a bit more to the point where it doesnt seem to block the whole screen when your character is in front of you for a small portion of the hallway or something lol. Those were the only minor gripes...
  
 Plus I am sure that they will remake the sounds and thus, us will experience some creepy scary sounds 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 and have nightmares once again. ( havent had an RE nightmare since RE 3 lol)
 Other than that, I still play my PS1 version of the first RE once in a while, for the lulz with their voice acting


----------



## Reckless Yuki

Hello everyone, and hello Envy! It's been a long time since I spoke with you and have been subscribed to your youtube channel for while. I just wish you did more videos. If you don't remember I sent you a private message thanking you for this guide and everything that you do.
  
 I was first lead to this guide when I was very noobish and was looking to see if there were better things than Turtle Beaches, Astros, and Trittons. My mind was blown by this guide 2+ years ago. At that time I settled with a Astro Mixamp 2013 Edition and a pair of ATH-AD700s (then to some K701s). 
  
 I'm now in the game of trying to reach a greater level of gaming performance and will be receiving a Sound Blaster X7 Limited Edition. During the past week I've been digging through google and this forum trying to get my audio game up and see what headphones I should get to compliment the X7 LE nicely. I say headphones because I would like one for competitive gaming and another for fun gaming/movies.
  
 For competitive I was looking at a set of ATH-AD700Xs but after some searching around decided on getting some ATH-AD900Xs instead. I'm hoping this is a good decision because these will mainly be used for positional awareness and sound whoring.
  
 For fun I was almost going to pull the trigger on some DT 990 Premium 600 ohm editions because they had a great "fun" rating while maintaining a good competitive and comfort. 8.5, 8, 8.5 i believe. These are currently available from massdrop for $220. Until somewhere within this forum I read that someone stated that the X7 is not a good match because it will bring out the flaws of the DT 990s even more...
  
 So this lead me to this question that I really hope can be answered. What are the best headphones to pair with the X7 LE for both fun and competitive gaming?
  
 If this has been covered multiple times, then I apologize, but I'm not having much luck finding a solid answer. I also know that audio is subjective to the individual, but I value the opinion of everyone here to hopefully lead me down the correct path. Thank you so much for reading this, I would really appreciate any assistance.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> Astonish,
> Good to hear about the K553... from your impression, seems like there honestly might be a little improvement in that model over the original K550. I'd probably pick that model, but that's a personal choice.
> 
> Beyers certainly are comfy. I've always heard that it's better to EQ down than up, so it ought to be pretty good, but you'll probably still hear some resonance and bloom. I don't know for sure though, as I haven't had a DT770 myself, and besides the M-100 I haven't had a headphone I felt like toning down the bass with.




I went back to Guitar Center one more time to thoroughly A/B the K553 Pro and DT 770 i 16 Ohm and, for my needs, the K553 is definitely the winner. Even if I could EQ the DT 770 bass to an acceptable level for competitbe FPS, the soundstage is just nowhere near as open or detailed as the K553. Doesn't hurt that they're $80 cheaper for the AKG's either. So that looks like my new setup for closed back competitve gaming - the AKG K553 Pro with a unidirectional ModMic 4.0.

Now the next question is whether or not I get the new Astro MixAmp TR or Creative G5 once the fall rolls around. Is there a general consensus on SBX vs Dolby Headphone for positional accuracy in competitve FPS? The G5 does look nice, but I'll probably have to get the MixAmp TR so that I can daisy chain with my teammates at LAN. Unless it's possible to daisy chain the G5 with a MixAmp? (I'm clueless as far as that goes...)


----------



## henhowc

rudyae86 said:


> You guys are playing Metal Gear Ground Zero and Phantom Pain wrong. It's not about the gameplay, it's about the customers and the story line. Gameplay is just extra to make it feel like a game instead of a Movie...
> 
> Lol
> 
> ...


 
  
 i think you'll be a bit surprised when you play mgs5...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

reckless yuki said:


> Hello everyone, and hello Envy! It's been a long time since I spoke with you and have been subscribed to your youtube channel for while. I just wish you did more videos. If you don't remember I sent you a private message thanking you for this guide and everything that you do.
> 
> I was first lead to this guide when I was very noobish and was looking to see if there were better things than Turtle Beaches, Astros, and Trittons. My mind was blown by this guide 2+ years ago. At that time I settled with a Astro Mixamp 2013 Edition and a pair of ATH-AD700s (then to some K701s).
> 
> ...




Hey Reckless, I'm still subscribed to you on Youtube, lol.

I have heard all throughout my audio life that the AD900 variants aren't as good as theAD700 in terms of positional accuracy, so I would say you may not be as happy as with the 700 versions, though they have better technicalities. I can't confirm, personally.

Also, for fun as well as even some competitive, I have owned the Fidelio X2 almost a year, and it's really the only headphone I need for all uses. I would recommend it over the 990 for sure. Not many people that aren't happy with the X2.

Sorry I don't have videos up normally. If I had someone like you near, me I'd be happy with your editing work, lol. And I absolutely love your voice. Hey, I mean in terms of youtube vids. You have what people call an excellent radio voice.


----------



## Reckless Yuki

mad lust envy said:


> Hey Reckless, I'm still subscribed to you on Youtube, lol.
> 
> I have heard all throughout my audio life that the AD900 variants aren't as good as theAD700 in terms of positional accuracy, so I would say you may not be as happy as with the 700 versions, though they have better technicalities. I can't confirm, personally.
> 
> ...


 
 ENVY!!! The man I wanted to hear from!!! I've been lurking here a while this past week and have been creeping on your posts regarding the X7. Ha.
  
 I've heard all sorts of mixed reviews of the 900 vs 700 and I just determined it's subjective. So I decided to get the 900Xs and after a good burn in I'm going to test them with the old pair of 700s that I have in my closet. I'm far from an audiophile so not sure if I can pick up on the audio ques like you guys, but I will give it my best shot. (9 years in the Navy running a propulsion system on a carrier deteriorated my hearing from "super" to "normal"... According to a Navy doc when asking about disability due to hearing loss... Ha.)
  
 I've also been looking at a lot of headphones... I was even about to push the buy button on some Beyerdynamic T1s... But I was unsure about those and unsure how well the X7 would be able to push those high end cans. But I still have my eye on them... I was considering the DT 990 Premium as a good "bargain" since I only plan on using the X7. I did look up a good amount of reviews on your Fidelio X2s and am really interested now that you use them and recommend them. I'm just fearful of "buyers remorse" because I will always wonder what the others would have sounded like... haha. But you are one of the few people I actually trust, unlike all the self claimed audio gurus with their "top 5s"... ha.
  
 Thanks for the compliment on my voice. I've done a lot of research over at gearslutz learning about recording equipment. I learned that with youtube compression it really doesn't matter how high end you go, but there are just things better than a Blue Yeti... ha. I know the gear it takes to record the voice, I just don't have the ears to really determine if it's worth it. Ha.
  
 Also, if you ever need help or want to talk about youtube, let me know man!!! Editing is easy. But one of those niches that aren't completely filled yet is an gaming audio guru... That could be you but you just need better youtube equipment to bring videos to that next level quality. I'm sure you will find success if you keep at it, especially with the reputation you built here. The main thing it takes to grow is quality, and consistency. 
  
 Just a quick question though before I end this post. What is your opinion on the Beyerdynamic T1 or the Sennheiser HD 800s? I really want at least one of those cans and am leaning towards the T1... ha.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Out of the two, the HD800 is still very much loved in the community. The T1 has lessof a pedigree. In fact some feel the T1 sounds worse than the mid-fi DT880s, due to rougher upper registers. AFter my experience with the T70, I can understand why people would be dismayed from the T1s. Those Tesla Beyers are all known to be very aggressive and fatiguing at times.

The HD800 is pretty much known for its ridiculous soundstage and clarity, something that would probably put everything else to shame for competitive gaming. However, it's supposedly one of the pickiest headphones to match gear with, and something like the X7's internal amp wouldn't be utterly ideal, especially when it has impedance spikes to like 1000ohm, which the X7 is not comfortable with.For the purpose of gaming, I'm sure those nitpicks wouldn't matter much, and you would get the gist of what the HD800 can do. The T1 is probably more efficient, so probably less held back by gear.

IMO, I'd be more interested in the HD800 over the T1. But both are in a price range, where I'd rather get something else, like the MrSpeakers Ether. If you can go planar... always go planar. Though planars tend to have a wall in the soundstage that dynamics easily surpass, so perhaps the HD800 is still better for gaming. I can't say as I haven't heard them, though. I'm sure one of the guys can chime in on the Ether. You also have the Hifiman HE-560, which practically everyone loves as well.


----------



## Reckless Yuki

mad lust envy said:


> Out of the two, the HD800 is still very much loved in the community. The T1 has lessof a pedigree. In fact some feel the T1 sounds worse than the mid-fi DT880s, due to rougher upper registers. AFter my experience with the T70, I can understand why people would be dismayed from the T1s. Those Tesla Beyers are all known to be very aggressive and fatiguing at times.
> 
> The HD800 is pretty much known for its ridiculous soundstage and clarity, something that would probably put everything else to shame for competitive gaming. However, it's supposedly one of the pickiest headphones to match gear with, and something like the X7's internal amp wouldn't be utterly ideal, especially when it has impedance spikes to like 1000ohm, which the X7 is not comfortable with.For the purpose of gaming, I'm sure those nitpicks wouldn't matter much, and you would get the gist of what the HD800 can do. The T1 is probably more efficient, so probably less held back by gear.
> 
> IMO, I'd be more interested in the HD800 over the T1. But both are in a price range, where I'd rather get something else, like the MrSpeakers Ether. If you can go planar... always go planar. Though planars tend to have a wall in the soundstage that dynamics easily surpass, so perhaps the HD800 is still better for gaming. I can't say as I haven't heard them, though. I'm sure one of the guys can chime in on the Ether. You also have the Hifiman HE-560, which practically everyone loves as well.


 
 NICE! Thank you very much for you input Envy! If I ever get the HD800s I will be sure to send them your way for review. I'm just really excited about getting the X7 and ATH-AD900Xs (to test against the AD700s) and possibly the Fidelio X2s based on your recommendation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love my X2. Haven't had an itch to change them other than when the HE-400S was announced, but only because I'd been waiting for a legit HE-400 successor, which neither the 400i or the 400S are, despite their name. That and my current fixation with wanting to be completely wire free, and wanting something wireless.


----------



## Qupie

Hi everybody! 

 I returned to this great thread once more to ask a Question. It has probably been asked before, but after scanning a few dozen pages, I gave up  
  
 I own a akg 612, which is simply lovely, combined with my marantz receiver (with dolby headphones).
  
 The problem is though, that I cannot use the standard PS4 mic with it, while in party chat mode. In party chat, the only option for chat audio, is trough the ps4 "headset" (which needs to be connected as it is the only mic I have at the moment). So I will have to put the earpiece in, under the K612... Which is far from ideal as you can imagine. Why there is no simple option to put all audio through the optical out, is still a mystery to me, after several emails to playstation. (it is even an option in allot of games on PS4! just not in party chat...)
  
 To fix this, I am thinking of using an USB mic. Has anybody had any experience with this? Will this solve the issue? I guess it will, but the audio options are really limited in PS4 by my experience, and I am afraid it will send the chat audio output to the mic anyway, even if it is only a mic with no earpiece... (Yeah, that is how low my trust has gotten on PS4 audio...)
  
 I use the akg 551 for now, plugged directly into the ps4 controller, and while the sound is nowhere near as bad as I thought, the 612 with dolby headphones are simply better (for a little better sound quality and much much better directional ques). 
  
 Thanks again everybody for this awesome body of information!
  
 p.s. if this works, any tips and tricks on which usb mic to use with PS4?


----------



## Qupie

Nevermind... this seems to be possible for 5 months already... Silly me, must have used the wrong search terms in the past. 

www.paradiger.com/ps4-yukimura-update-has-another-hidden-gem-pass-chat-audio-to-tv-or-av-amplifier/


----------



## rudyae86

henhowc said:


> i think you'll be a bit surprised when you play mgs5...




I think you didn't read the second post about this....just add sarcasm to the first paragraph of the post you quoted lol.

I'll eventually play MGS5 but I have little time plus my backlog of games is getting bigger :/


----------



## MattKelly

fegefeuer said:


> Ok, so I assume the
> 
> Cross-platform connectivity
> 
> ...


 


evshrug said:


> It's not out yet, but if it's as capable as the E5 I've been listening to for the past few days, *and* *able to decode Game Console surround*, then the G5 is going to be a very convenient headphone option and a true successor to the Recon3D.


 

 I searched around a bit and was finally able to find a photo of the other side of the G5 (Creative didn't show both sides in their press release). It looks like we'll be getting what we need!

 http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feature-first-looks-creative-sound-blasterx-series-gaming-audio

 My question is how Creative's SBX stacks up against Astro's Dolby Headphone for positional cues in competitive FPS. If SBX is superior, then of course I want to go that route come November, however I may be forced to get the new MixAmp TR instead because of my teammates (have to be able to daisy chain with them at LAN). Do you guys think it would be possible to daisy chain the G5 with several MixAmps? I'm guessing not...


----------



## Darkangelpt

Hello everyone. 
Currently I'm using mixamp pro 2013 with sennheiser pc360.
Halo 5 and cod black ops 3 are coming and I'm trying to improve my gaming sound. 
I'm thinking about ad700x (no need to amp) 180 euros. 
Or akg k702 (I think you need to amp it) 215 euros. 
Anyone that had both and could compare them for gaming with mixamp?


----------



## henhowc

rudyae86 said:


> I think you didn't read the second post about this....just add sarcasm to the first paragraph of the post you quoted lol.
> 
> I'll eventually play MGS5 but I have little time plus my backlog of games is getting bigger :/


 
 i read and understood both posts the first time. i'm just pointing out that, regardless if you play the game for the gameplay, story, or combination of both, mgs5 is a lot less cutscene and story heavy than previous games. surprisingly so to many longtime fans.
  
 so people will love it and some people hate it.


----------



## rudyae86

henhowc said:


> i read and understood both posts the first time. i'm just pointing out that, regardless if you play the game for the gameplay, story, or combination of both, mgs5 is a lot less cutscene and story heavy than previous games. surprisingly so to many longtime fans.
> 
> so people will love it and some people hate it.




Only sad part is Kojima getting kicked out of Konami. 

Anyways, now I'm tempted to buy a B stock TH-600.....


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> Only sad part is Kojima getting kicked out of Konami.
> 
> Anyways, now I'm tempted to buy a B stock TH-600.....




Anyone think the Konami/Kojima split was just a PR/Marketing stunt? They basically had a front page story almost all the time on gaming websites. I think He's crazy/clever enough to wanna pull a stunt like it.


----------



## rudyae86

Oh boy, now that's more like it Creative. Geee Geee lol

Well, I have tried both and me playing competitively in BF4, I say that both are suitable for competitive play, at least with my set up. This is me using the X2 with an Asus DG for Dolby and a Recon3d for SBX. Though X2 isn't up there with AD700 or Q701 but it does very well still for competitive gaming. In short, I prefer SBX, just because of the reverb on Dolby is a bit more distracting for me compared to SBX. But Dolby has better rear position cues, that's what I have noticed. I guess it depends what games you usually play. BF4 has too much going on so I would use either one but if it came to playing COD, I would probably pick Dolby Headphone just because there are less sounds going on and because the rear cues are slightly more noticeable but you do get that reverb effect with Dolby. SBX just sounds cleaner, to put it in simple words. The rear cues probably suffer somewhat bu they are there and noticeable. 

With regards to all this, I could have simply say they are the same competitively speaking but it comes down to taste in sound and what headphones you use with either or.

I'm on my phone so sorry if I don't make sense lol and I'm at the mall with my bro


----------



## MattKelly

rudyae86 said:


> Oh boy, now that's more like it Creative. Geee Geee lol
> 
> Well, I have tried both and me playing competitively in BF4, I say that both are suitable for competitive play, at least with my set up. This is me using the X2 with an Asus DG for Dolby and a Recon3d for SBX. Though X2 isn't up there with AD700 or Q701 but it does very well still for competitive gaming. In short, I prefer SBX, just because of the reverb on Dolby is a bit more distracting for me compared to SBX. But Dolby has better rear position cues, that's what I have noticed. I guess it depends what games you usually play. BF4 has too much going on so I would use either one but if it came to playing COD, I would probably pick Dolby Headphone just because there are less sounds going on and because the rear cues are slightly more noticeable but you do get that reverb effect with Dolby. SBX just sounds cleaner, to put it in simple words. The rear cues probably suffer somewhat bu they are there and noticeable.
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks so much for the info! Yeah, I do play CoD competitively - and I'll be using the AKG K553 Pro since I need a set of closed cans for LAN use. However if I end up going the route of the G5, I'll have the option to use the K7XX as an at home pair. If I go with the MixAmp though the K553's low impedance and high sensitivity would work out much better for me. I really appreciate your input!

 Anyone else here have opinions on the positional cues of Dolby Headphone vs. SBX?


----------



## rudyae86

mattkelly said:


> Thanks so much for the info! Yeah, I do play CoD competitively - and I'll be using the AKG K553 Pro since I need a set of closed cans for LAN use. However if I end up going the route of the G5, I'll have the option to use the K7XX as an at home pair. If I go with the MixAmp though the K553's low impedance and high sensitivity would work out much better for me. I really appreciate your input!
> 
> Anyone else here have opinions on the positional cues of Dolby Headphone vs. SBX?


 
 No problem.
  
 Im sure someone with better words can explain or add to what I have said. Im not that great with explaining but I do understand most things how they work lol
  
 Also, we dont know what kind of hardware both the MixAmp and the G5 will be using until the reviews start coming out later in November. Hardware usually also affects sound quality to some extent. So, in regards to that, I would wait a bit more even after release day of the said products. But for some reason, I have a feeling that the G5 will have hardware compared to the Sound Blaster Zx and maybe something from the X7, dont quote me on that, its more of a guess.

 What I am digging though is that the G5 will be able to allow us to use a different DAC and Amp, for those that like to use specific amps with specific headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

I would echo Rudy.
Fortunately the reverb on Dolby Headphone isn't too strong and you get used to it (I had a turtle beach DSS, the first version had DH too), but I still prefer the more natural (to my ears) SBX's method of presenting surround. I honestly think SBX is just more distinctly representing 5.1 speaker setups, where you don't have a rear-center speaker (turning up the surround % seems to push rear cues a little further back and fills in the rear center for me, I most like it and always end up coming back to 100%). They're both good and YMMV.

Have a friend using the K712 + mixamp, I owned a K712, Q701, and K612, the mixamp should be loud enough with just the mixamp (though musically you might enjoy media more with an amp, because the AKGs scale up).

The K612 is the hardest of the three to drive, and the E5 does great (especially musical in high game mode, it seems). I'm going to review the E5 soon (just finished an Oppo review over the weekend), it's a pretty nice device. I will point out that the E5 also has an optical input/output, it's just the E5 can't decode a Dolby (or DTS) surround signal. If the G5 and E5 are going to be different things, then I HOPE that console surround compatibility is an added feature. E5 is pretty good if you just like stereo though, lol.

Just a reminder though, the Zx is just a Z with the volume puck dongle. The E5 actually has a better amp than the Z/Zx, and a more universal low-output impedance. And Bluetooth and battery and portable and... costs more. LOL!


----------



## Raika

hey guys I'm new here . any help where I should start . I use hugo and beyer T1 for gaming .
 what's the best software to use with my setup ?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I would echo Rudy.
> Fortunately the reverb on Dolby Headphone isn't too strong and you get used to it (I had a turtle beach DSS, the first version had DH too), but I still prefer the more natural (to my ears) SBX's method of presenting surround. I honestly think SBX is just more distinctly representing 5.1 speaker setups, where you don't have a rear-center speaker (turning up the surround % seems to push rear cues a little further back and fills in the rear center for me, I most like it and always end up coming back to 100%). They're both good and YMMV.
> 
> Have a friend using the K712 + mixamp, I owned a K712, Q701, and K612, the mixamp should be loud enough with just the mixamp (though musically you might enjoy media more with an amp, because the AKGs scale up).
> ...




I have read that the Z and Zx, have some slight hardware changes, not including the little hub. Them again I probably doubt it's something major, hence why I mentioned the Zx.

I totally forgot about the E5 lol. More than likely, the G5 will be based of that hardware. Do you know what type of hardware the E5 is built on? Hopefully you mention something about it in you review. Also, is the E5's output impedance 2.2ohms? If it is, them it should clearly tell us that the G5 will use the same hardware along with decoding Dolby.


----------



## wadec22

rudyae86 said:


> I have read that the Z and Zx, have some slight hardware changes, not including the little hub. Them again I probably doubt it's something major, hence why I mentioned the Zx.
> 
> I totally forgot about the E5 lol. More than likely, the G5 will be based of that hardware. Do you know what type of hardware the E5 is built on? Hopefully you mention something about it in you review. Also, is the E5's output impedance 2.2ohms? If it is, them it should clearly tell us that the G5 will use the same hardware along with decoding Dolby.


 
  
 Dolby decoding is what I'm crossing my fingers for.  There isn't a hint of Dolby on any of the early marketing stuff or photos to this point.  Would suck if it couldn't decode Dolby, PS4 would be stuck sending 2ch pcm....


----------



## The Lamonster

I'm still narrowing down a dac/amp solution for my* Fidelio X2* - I plan to use it with my *Playstation 4* so an optical/toslink input is required, so I'm probably looking at a $200-300 price range.

That said, with X2's low impedance in mind, would I be better off going with Schiit M2 stack, Schiit Vali stack, UHA-6S Mk II or waiting for the new Aune X1S, or something else that I haven't even considered yet?


----------



## Sam21

the lamonster said:


> I'm still narrowing down a dac/amp solution for my* Fidelio X2* - I plan to use it with my *Playstation 4* so an optical/toslink input is required, so I'm probably looking at a $200-300 price range.
> 
> That said, with X2's low impedance in mind, would I be better off going with Schiit M2 stack, Schiit Vali stack, UHA-6S Mk II or waiting for the new Aune X1S, or something else that I haven't even considered yet?


 
 Creative E5 
  
  
 or 
  
  
 Creative G5 [Not Yet Released]


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> I have read that the Z and Zx, have some slight hardware changes, not including the little hub. Them again I probably doubt it's something major, hence why I mentioned the Zx.
> 
> I totally forgot about the E5 lol. More than likely, the G5 will be based of that hardware. Do you know what type of hardware the E5 is built on? Hopefully you mention something about it in you review. Also, is the E5's output impedance 2.2ohms? If it is, them it should clearly tell us that the G5 will use the same hardware along with decoding Dolby.




Source for the Zx / Z hardware changes? Prices are pretty close anyway. Also higher output impedance anyway, last time I checked, so you wouldn't want to use them with a very variable impedance headphone like a Sennheiser HD650 (AKG and Beyers should be fine, also all planar magnetic headphones will be unaffected).

The E5 amp is the same as the ZxR, X7, and FiiO E09k, though implementation makes a big difference obviously. The E5 has either 2.4 or 2.2 ohm output impedance, very low like the X7. The X7 has a different DAC than the E5 if I am remembering right, but both sound quite good and pass my K612 test with aplomb.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Source for the Zx / Z hardware changes? Prices are pretty close anyway. Also higher output impedance anyway, last time I checked, so you wouldn't want to use them with a very variable impedance headphone like a Sennheiser HD650 (AKG and Beyers should be fine, also all planar magnetic headphones will be unaffected).
> 
> The E5 amp is the same as the ZxR, X7, and FiiO E09k, though implementation makes a big difference obviously. The E5 has either 2.4 or 2.2 ohm output impedance, very low like the X7. The X7 has a different DAC than the E5 if I am remembering right, but both sound quite good and pass my K612 test with aplomb.


 
 Cant find source but I believe it was on a thread at overclock.net forum. Im trying to recall what it was but I believe the Zx had better capacitors and something else, I might have to dwell into that thread with 300 plus pages lol.
  
 But maybe I was just imagining things 
  
 Price wise, I think they are on par except when they go on sale. Lowest price for a SB Z was 55 bucks i think while the Zx at one point was around 70 or 80, which probably cost a bit more because of the module. Other than that, they are identical in every way except for those capacitors I have mentioned, of which I dont know which specific capacitors are they and for what part of the sound card...
  
 Anyways, Im looking foward to the G5, especially since my bro and I are putting half the money towards a PS4.....well he will use the PS4 more since Im on the......PC MASTER RACe lol jk.
  
 My Recon3D has already been sold  and forever I will remember it because it was my first device that gave me virtual surround sound along with the MA900 and X1.

 But I didnt really use it so it had to go lol


----------



## saifulmy

hello, i need input

I using ADH700 for over 5 years now, mainly used for gaming using mixamp and listen to music in flac. so decide want to replace/upgrade my ADH700 for more immersive gaming. Play most RPG, story, and open world, less playing FPS. Listen any type of music genre. Decide either K712 or He400s/He400i. mainly because K712 have great soundstage and fun also He400 because of it give more 'cinematic' experience but lack soundstage compare to K712. If i choose K712, do I miss a lot 'fun factor' He400 to offer? If He400s is not much different compared to He400i, maybe I can have both with decent amp? I still want a good amp, mainly used for listening music using tidal, so decided either O2 (maybe include ODAC) or E12? I prefer X7 but not been sell in my country yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K712 is a great bet. I'd say go for that.


----------



## Youth

What do you think about T1? Or even T1.2 if you've had a chance to audition those.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm clearly a glutton for punishment. Just picked up a pair of Turtle Beach PX4 wireless headphones. Only $50, but I predict that they'll be going back shortly after taking delivery.
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/turtle-beach-ear-force-px4-wireless-dolby-surround-sound-gaming-headset-for-ps4-ps3-and-xbox-360/1723323.p?id=1219061407237&skuId=1723323


----------



## The Lamonster

sam21 said:


> Creative E5
> 
> 
> or
> ...


 
 Is the E5/G5 going to sound better than a Schiit stack with the Fidelio X2?  Which is more appropriate for the X2 specifically?


----------



## Darkangelpt

I'm curious about te creative e5.
Is it comparable to same price audiophile amp dac.? 
Like schiit or o2?


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> I'm clearly a glutton for punishment. Just picked up a pair of Turtle Beach PX4 wireless headphones. Only $50, but I predict that they'll be going back shortly after taking delivery.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/turtle-beach-ear-force-px4-wireless-dolby-surround-sound-gaming-headset-for-ps4-ps3-and-xbox-360/1723323.p?id=1219061407237&skuId=1723323


 
 You shall get punishment! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Sincerely, a former PX5 owner


----------



## rudyae86

the lamonster said:


> Is the E5/G5 going to sound better than a Schiit stack with the Fidelio X2?  Which is more appropriate for the X2 specifically?


 
 I read that the E5 is a tad bit colored at the top range but should go quite well with Warm sounding headphones like the X2. X7 reviews have said the same in which warmer sounding headphones sound best with the X7.


----------



## conquerator2

FYI, I am selling a basic DH device for 19$ shipped and PPed... So basically free. It works, so if anyone wants to try DH, shoot me a PM!


----------



## Change is Good

Conq, I'm assuming you liked the 400S over the 400i? Can't remember if you mentioned this, already, so apologies if so.


----------



## shuto77

I might want to trade my AKG K7XX for a Fidelio X2. I can throw in cash. Hmu if anyone is interested.


----------



## The Lamonster

attn Mad Lust Envy:

What should I pair my Fidelio X2 with, out of the following dac/amps? I plan to connect to my PC and PS4 (via optical). 

-Schiit Magni 2+Modi 2 Uber ($250)
-Creative Sound Blaster E5/G5 ($200)
-Aune X1S ($250)
-Leckerton UHA-6S Mk II ($290)


----------



## rudyae86

the lamonster said:


> attn Mad Lust Envy:
> 
> What should I pair my Fidelio X2 with, out of the following dac/amps? I plan to connect to my PC and PS4 (via optical).
> 
> ...


 
 If you want Virtual Surround Sound, go with the G5 (which has not releaed yet but will be in November) which uses SBX. If no surround sound emulation is needed, I would say a Schiit Stack 2 would be a very solid choice.
  
 Edit: Says here $150
 Also, I read the G5 may be cheaper than $200, at around $150 or maybe less, depending if you get the coupon if you sign up on the Sound Blaster X website.
  
 I cant speak about the other DAC/Amps since I have not read about them other than the 2 i have mentioned.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Conq, I'm assuming you liked the 400S over the 400i? Can't remember if you mentioned this, already, so apologies if so.




Yes I do. I find the treble smoother for one and the midrange slightly less forward.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

the lamonster said:


> attn Mad Lust Envy:
> 
> What should I pair my Fidelio X2 with, out of the following dac/amps? I plan to connect to my PC and PS4 (via optical).
> 
> ...




Which ever one has virtual surround. So I assume the G5. It could be a $1 million dollar dac/amp that has no surround vs a $30 device with virtual surround, and I'd choose the latter every single time.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Is anyone in here a DEDICATED HARD L/R PANNING STEREO GAMER AT HEART?


----------



## Arnotts

fegefeuer said:


> Is anyone in here a DEDICATED HARD L/R PANNING STEREO GAMER AT HEART?


 

 Yup. I used to own the Asus Xonar Essence STX and the Creative X-Fi Titanium HD (to see whether I preferred Dolby Headphone or CMSS-3D).
  
 CMSS-3D was AMAZING for certain games that supported it natively, or through Alchemy (whatever it was called). CS: Source set up correctly literally had perfect 3D sound placement. But no other game I tried would work properly with CMSS-3D. Sure the surround effect was there, but it was never applied exactly as intended, it just worked like Dolby Headphone where a fake reverb was added to make it seem like the sounds were more "out of your head".
  
 Now I just use a good quality DAC, a good quality amp and good quality headphones, and I feel like stereo provides excellent sound placement. HD800's from the GMB and Valhalla 2 provided the most realistic in-game audio I've ever heard from a game... and I only ever tested it with Team Fortress 2.


----------



## The Lamonster

mad lust envy said:


> Which ever one has virtual surround. So I assume the G5. It could be a $1 million dollar dac/amp that has no surround vs a $30 device with virtual surround, and I'd choose the latter every single time.


 
 Thanks MLE, this (and your other reply in the X7 thread) helps a lot.  
  
 So this is probably a stupid question, but since the X7 is out of my price range, I'm looking at the E5 (or upcoming G5) so I can get virtual surround with my Playstation 4.  However, it's hard to find any actual confirmation out there that Sound Blaster optical will even work with a PS4.   I want to play Destiny with my PS4 optical going to the E5 and Fidelio X2.  Is that a compatible setup that will give me virtual surround?  Is it going to sound amazing?


----------



## Yethal

the lamonster said:


> Thanks MLE, this (and your other reply in the X7 thread) helps a lot.
> 
> So this is probably a stupid question, but since the X7 is out of my price range, I'm looking at the E5 (or upcoming G5) so I can get virtual surround with my Playstation 4.  However, it's hard to find any actual confirmation out there that Sound Blaster optical will even work with a PS4.   I want to play Destiny with my PS4 optical going to the E5 and Fidelio X2.  Is that a compatible setup that will give me virtual surround?  Is it going to sound amazing?


 
 E5 does not support console virtual surround, however upcoming G5 is supposed to (it's supposed to have multiplatform compatibility, according to press release)


----------



## The Lamonster

yethal said:


> E5 does not support console virtual surround, however upcoming G5 is supposed to (it's supposed to have multiplatform compatibility, according to press release)


 
 Good to know, thanks! 
  
 I noticed in your sig that you use the Schiit stack with the X7 - what is the purpose of using both together?  Isn't the SS a suitable dac/amp on its own for listening to music?


----------



## Yethal

the lamonster said:


> Good to know, thanks!
> 
> I noticed in your sig that you use the Schiit stack with the X7 - what is the purpose of using both together?  Isn't the SS a suitable dac/amp on its own for listening to music?


 
 X7 and the Schiit stack sound different enough to me that I switch back and forth between the two when listening to different kinds of music. The Modi I purchased has optical input instead of USB, and optical output on my motherboard is horrible so I use X7 in USB>S/PDIF converter mode whenever I feel like listening to music with the Stack.
 However I put the stack on sale some time ago as I consider X7 to be competent enough to satisfy my musical needs.


----------



## Raika

what's better for gaming beyer T1 or Hd 800 ?


----------



## jordohayes

Hello everyone,
  
 I'm looking for a solution that will allow me to use my XBOX ONE/ and PC with the Philips X2/27 Fidelio. I plan on TWITCH streaming and want to capture and broadcast high-quality audio. I have been looking at solutions, most noticeably the one provided by @Styles, but I'm still looking for a few more suggestions.
  
 Though Styles setup would provide a lot of control over the audio, I'm curious about the Creative X7. I've seen a few posts on setups, but wanted to ask a key question.
  
 1) Is is possible to plug in a mic, let's say a XLR using a Focusrite to RCA, and then have the audio out of the back of the X7 carry the mic-channel only? (I'm thinking headphones in the front for main audio, mic-out to the xbox controller).
  
  
 I've been toying with the idea of using an XLR microphone and wanted to see possible solutions. If this is a no-go, then I may just stick with a mic from v-moda and try to bringing audio in.
  
  
 Any suggestions for a Xbox-audio setup is greatly appreciated. Keep in mind I may want the audio to be recorded for Twitch.
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


styles said:


> @becnel51
> Here,s my recent update to XB1 gaming.  If you go a back a few pages here you can see some of my most recent items on chat and getting it to work better for XB1, cant help on the PS4 side but there are plenty of others that can.  One thing to note is that I game at my desk so I dont care anything about wires and do not want anything tho do with a wireless setup!  You'll see a lot of chatter about that as well.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Darkangelpt

Just bought akg q701.
Now just wondering what amp would I use for it. 
Under 150 euros.


----------



## Darkangelpt

What does the roll minimix do? Never seen that


----------



## Sam21

darkangelpt said:


> What does the roll minimix do? Never seen that


 
 it mixes several signals into one, Get the O2 amp, it has nice specs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

darkangelpt said:


> Just bought akg q701.
> Now just wondering what amp would I use for it.
> Under 150 euros.




I would think the Magni 2 would probably be a good solution for the Q701 in terms of amping on a budget. If the Project Polaris at $215 = less than 150 Euros, then I would personally check that one out, since it has a lot of power for the price. 

I assume you have a gaming dac/amp in the mix somewhere, because you're gonna want to plug in that amp to something.

The Turtle Beach DSS goes for less than $20 on Amazon.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-DSS-7-1-Dolby-Surround-Sound-Processor-x11-p11-/300884680998?hash=item460e1fe126

Just be wary that microphones won't work out of the box with that one, and I recommend jumping up to the Mixamp or Creative Recon USB if you want all functionalities.


----------



## Darkangelpt

mad lust envy said:


> I would think the Magni 2 would probably be a good solution for the Q701 in terms of amping on a budget. If the Project Polaris at $215 = less than 150 Euros, then I would personally check that one out, since it has a lot of power for the price.
> 
> I assume you have a gaming dac/amp in the mix somewhere, because you're gonna want to plug in that amp to something.
> 
> ...




I already have a mixamp pro 2013. I play a lot of ps4 and xbox one. 
On ps4 with the sennheiser game one it's so easy. 
On xbox lots of cables adapters etc. 
A lot of people talk about the o2. 
That's the one I'm more inclined to.
Schiit magni is OK but big.


----------



## Sam21

Magni 2 is more powerful than the O2, Magni 2 Uber is even more powerful.But O2 is more transparent and has lower noise.


----------



## Fegefeuer

raika said:


> what's better for gaming beyer T1 or Hd 800 ?


 
  
 HD 800.
  
 -better soundstage in width and depth, clearly better imaging and SKELETON BUILDING aka CRAFTING THE SONAR ARCHITECTURE OF THE GAME WORLD MAN
 -seriously, the imaging is clearly superior
 -better clarity throughout
 -more (micro)details
 -lower distortion throughout the whole spectrum and yes, better bass, the kick-bass section is very very tight and HARDHITTING
 -better comfort
  
 -needs at least a Modi 2 Uber and a Vali, else forget about it. Gaming with X7 is good though if you care about Sony Playstation 4 and Microsoft Xbox One
  
 T1:
  
 -cheaper
 -5 years warranty
 -cheap replacement stuff (Sennheiser is beyond greedy)
 -I am sorry but the T1 does nothing better, it's not only technically inferior, it's audibly worse


----------



## raband

fegefeuer said:


> -cheap replacement stuff (Sennheiser is beyond greedy)


 
  
 I'd argue this one - I needed a replacement of one of my HD 598 ear pads - $AU40 and I was sent 2 pads and the driver covers direct from Senn.


----------



## Darkangelpt

sam21 said:


> Magni 2 is more powerful than the O2, Magni 2 Uber is even more powerful.But O2 is more transparent and has lower noise.




Magni 2 is more powerful than o2?
Didnt know that. 
I look ate the specs but I'm a noob at this. 
Schiit to connect it to console and mixamp I would need rca cables to 3.5 I think.


----------



## lenroot77

raband said:


> I'd argue this one - I needed a replacement of one of my HD 598 ear pads - $AU40 and I was sent 2 pads and the driver covers direct from Senn.




Totally different story with there flagship model, even hd650 pads/cables are pricey.


----------



## conquerator2

darkangelpt said:


> Magni 2 is more powerful than o2?
> Didnt know that.
> I look ate the specs but I'm a noob at this.
> *Schiit to connect it to console and mixamp I would need rca cables to 3.5 I think.*


 
 Correct.


----------



## Darkangelpt

conquerator2 said:


> Correct.




Can you recommend any cables? 
Is rca and phono the same? I see a lot of phonos.


----------



## avens

fegefeuer said:


> HD 800.
> 
> -better soundstage in width and depth, clearly better imaging and SKELETON BUILDING aka CRAFTING THE SONAR ARCHITECTURE OF THE GAME WORLD MAN
> -seriously, the imaging is clearly superior
> ...


 
 Also needs performing the Anaxilus mod, otherwise the treble peak of the stock HD 800's should be awful for gaming. They will perform notoriously better with a better amp as well.
  
 To be honest, I think using a HD 800 for gaming really is a waste of your money. If you want clarity and details for competitive gaming, then you'd be better off with the AD 700 (and $2000-$3000 richer). In the end a hard hitting bass is a distraction when gaming.
  
 Or if you want a headphone that is also good for music, the all rounder, then the Fidelio X2 should do the trick. After all one thing are the scores on the OP's list and  having access to pricier products, but in actuality MLE, Nameless and others don't use the highest scoring nor the pricier headphones.
  
 Personally though,  I think that if you want the very best (and reliable) setup then you have to make different ones for each usage. For gaming lets say a AD700 (or a AKG) + mixamp, then another for music with open-back phones such as the LCD 3 + Burson + DAC for music, then another for portable use (I suggest IEMs), and so on. There isn't a single headphone or earphone, dac and amp out there that isn't a compromise in one or more areas.
  
 For example at the office I use the HD600 -for music-, while at home I have the Oppo PM-3 as the all rounder (the 3.5mm input supports the V-Moda BoomPro mic), the HD598 for uberpro gaming (and for HD555 nostalgia reasons), and for portable use I have the Xiaomi Piston 2. Of that setup, I'm looking to upgrade the IEMs and that's it. Well maybe I could have a better amp at home too.
  
 Or if I were to have the simplest yet best setup as possible, I'd get a really nice IEM for music and isolating gaming, with a top of the line DAP so it works as DAC on the PC at home and at the office. Secondly get a really nice open headphone for gaming in mind (the AD700 or maybe the AKGs), with a soundcard or external DAC that supports dolby surround stuff, then sell the rest.


----------



## Raika

fegefeuer said:


> HD 800.
> 
> -better soundstage in width and depth, clearly better imaging and SKELETON BUILDING aka CRAFTING THE SONAR ARCHITECTURE OF THE GAME WORLD MAN
> -seriously, the imaging is clearly superior
> ...


 
 whooooo very nice that help me , I'm hunting hd 800 ,If anyone intrested to trade his hd 800 for lcd 3 fazor or th900 please pm ,
 One last Q : I own T1 ,but many said it is better in fps since it has more natural 3d soundstage ? what kinda of games you play when using hd 800 ?


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







 Speaking of the T1!


----------



## conquerator2

darkangelpt said:


> Can you recommend any cables?
> Is rca and phono the same? I see a lot of phonos.




This is what it should look like 
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=261666802578&alt=web


----------



## Darkangelpt

I think I will go for the magni instead of the o2.
Have a oficial schiit store here. 
To pair with mixamp pro and akg q701. 
Is it worth the magni Uber?


----------



## conquerator2

darkangelpt said:


> I think I will go for the magni instead of the o2.
> Have a oficial schiit store here.
> To pair with mixamp pro and akg q701.
> *Is it worth the magni Uber?*


 
 Yes. It is the better version if you can afford it


----------



## The Lamonster

Random Q but do you guys think we'll ever see a Vali 2?


----------



## Blze001

the lamonster said:


> Random Q but do you guys think we'll ever see a Vali 2?


 
  
 If they do, I hope they make it with "conventional" tubes that you can roll easily.


----------



## lenroot77

blze001 said:


> If they do, I hope they make it with "conventional" tubes that you can roll easily.




That would be really nice of them, but they may use it as an entry to tube sound and if u want to roll tubes u have to upgrade. That would be my idea if it was my company anyhow.


----------



## The Lamonster

blze001 said:


> If they do, I hope they make it with "conventional" tubes that you can roll easily.


 
 I'd want it to have the brushed aluminum of the M2U, and have a gain switch.


----------



## Blze001

What I'd really like to see from Schiit is a Vali replacement that uses a 12AU7. That's a pretty solid tube and would be a great "gateway" amp for the tube sound. Maybe offer a "solid state tube" for it like the other ones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

the lamonster said:


> Random Q but do you guys think we'll ever see a Vali 2?




I would love that. Love, LOVE the Vali. 

NO, not conventional tubes. The allure for me is that the Vali is as good as it gets, with tubes that have near solid state time lifespan. I don't care how much better tubes can be if I have to deal with swapping eventually, or having to stress about which tubes are better, etc. There are a *MILLION* tube amps with rollable tubes. Get those instead. Leave the Vali for those who just want a product that works as intended out of the box, without worrying what tubes may be better, or when the tubes will die.


----------



## shuto77

It would be dope to write a book on the history of audio in videogames. I have a writing background, so my output would be slightly better than amateurish (though admittedly, not by much). 

Many of you have either a wealth of knowledge, or are good writers, or both.

Just throwing it out there in case any of our experts here like the idea and are interested in a collaboration. 

I don't really have time to do this at the moment, but it could be fun.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> It would be dope to write a book on the history of audio in videogames. I have a writing background, so my output would be slightly better than amateurish (though admittedly, not by much).
> 
> Many of you have either a wealth of knowledge, or are good writers, or both.
> 
> ...


 
 Check out Nameless's Guide to PC Gaming. A lot of valuable info there regarding videogame audio


----------



## conquerator2

I'd dig that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I might base my bachelor thesis on something similar


----------



## shuto77

conquerator2 said:


> I'd dig that
> I might base my bachelor thesis on something similar




I did a videogames-related thesis for my master's thesis, expecting to go on for my PhD, but I changed gears. This made my thesis kind of an awkward topic in job interviews,lol.


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Hi there guys,
  
 I'm just hoping someone can help me out with some issues I am having getting mic output on the PS4.
  
 So I have a 2011 Mixamp connected via optical cable to the PS4 and usb powered through AC.
  
 I have a Y splitter cable connected to the audio jack on the mixamp.
  
 Connected to the spiitter cable are my AD700x headphones and a Sony Lavalier mic.
  
 I am able to hear chat audio and game audio through the cans, however no there is no outgoing mic audio.
  
 Anyone know how to fix this?
  
 I have the exact same issue on the Xbox One as well.
 Thank you.


----------



## Yethal

confusedpsyduck said:


> Hi there guys,
> 
> I'm just hoping someone can help me out with some issues I am having getting mic output on the PS4.
> 
> ...


 
 The problem is, there is no actual connection between Your microphone and the consoles. Connect the Mixamp via USB to the PS4 or buy a PS4 Chat cable like this one:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PS4-Chat-Cable-for-Turtle-Beach-Ear-Force-Fast-Shipping-USA-PlayStation-4-/181601925790?hash=item2a48517a9e


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Thanks for the reply. 
  
 Initially I had assumed that as well, however I connected the usb to the PS4 to make sure and nothing had actually changed.


----------



## Yethal

confusedpsyduck said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Initially I had assumed that as well, however I connected the usb to the PS4 to make sure and nothing had actually changed.


 
 First Mixamp model does not have USB chat function




 Looks like this.
  
 Later models do. If You have a first generation Mixamp, buy PS4 chat cable (works with Xbox too)


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Thanks a lot. It's not the first one, but it is similar in design.
  
 I'll check out the cable.
  
 Btw, do you know if this mixamp has eq settings? Mine didn't come with any literature, so I wasn't sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wasn't aware you could hear yourself in chat ever on the Mixamp. I don't remember if that's even a thing.


----------



## Yethal

confusedpsyduck said:


> Thanks a lot. It's not the first one, but it is similar in design.
> 
> I'll check out the cable.
> 
> Btw, do you know if this mixamp has eq settings? Mine didn't come with any literature, so I wasn't sure.


 
 2013 edition onwards has equalizer.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> I wasn't aware you could hear yourself in chat ever on the Mixamp. I don't remember if that's even a thing.


 
 Connecting a daisy chain port to the mp3 input allows that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I mean by default. Not sure why anyone wants to hear themselves, other than to make sure your voice isn't too loud. I certainly don't wanna hear it.


----------



## raband

I need to hear myself - even if it's very quietly.
  
 Especially with closed cans on - I find myself raising my voice way too loud to compensate.


----------



## MattKelly

*What makes a headphone superior for competitive FPS gaming?*

 So after finally narrowing down my choice for a closed back headphone to be used strictly for competitive FPS gaming in noisy LAN environments, I've found myself asking a new question.

*"Is it the openness of a soundstage that allows for pinpointing footsteps in FPS (like CoD/CS) or is it the detail/imaging/instrument separation instead?"*

 Because if it's the former, then I've narrowed down my choices to the AKG K553 Pro, the Audio Technica MSR7, or the SoundMagic HP150. I've heard that for closed back headphones under $300, these options are going to provide the largest soundstage and most clarity.

 But then I came across a post made by Dreyka, from quite a long time ago in this thread. I'll copy it below:

 Quote: 





ausername501 said:


> I've used a lot of different virtual surroud sound software and listened to a lot of binaural audio. I've come to the conclusion that IEMs are the best for gaming due to sharper imaging than full sized open headphones. Most notably imaging in front of the head is better which is the hardest part to localise sounds.
> 
> I'm currently using the Etymotic ER-4PT and the only full sized headphones that have come close to that level of sharpness in imaging is the Sennheiser HD800. While full sized headphones sound 'airy' that isn't as important for competitive gaming where the position of sounds is more important. Another important aspect is the sound isolation that IEMs bring is amazing for LAN events, tournaments and their small size means they are really portable. I use a Giant Squid Lavalier Omni mic and just clip it on to my shirt.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the best full sized gaming headphones are the Sennheiser HD800 (possibly SR-009 too) and the best IEMs for competitive gaming are the Etymotic (HF5 and ER-4PT). No doubt there are CIEMs that are even better but I don't have the disposable income to test them.


 

 I went on to private message Dreyka and he had some more feedback to offer me on the topic. I'm sure he won't mind me sharing with you all:
  


> Private Message from *Dreyka* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> With IEMs there is less width to the stage due to the drivers being much closer to the ear. I think soundstage width is highly overrated for gaming. Frequency response, high detail retrieval and noise isolation are all important factors. EQ is very helpful for emphasizing the sounds you want to hear. IEMs are far superior than closed headphones of that price and very detailed. There are loads of cheap IEMs with much better sound quality than closed headphones of an equivalent price.


 

 So I'm here trying to revive this conversation, and hopefully we can get some input from both sides - what do you all feel is more important in a competitive FPS headphone?* High detail retrieval or an open soundstage.*


----------



## The Lamonster

How does using Razer Surround compare to using an external Sound Blaster for surround sound?


----------



## Yethal

the lamonster said:


> How does using Razer Surround compare to using an external Sound Blaster for surround sound?


 
 Razer Surround sucks. It adds latency to sound, it's inaccurate and makes the game sound like there is a layer of wool inside the headphones (everything sounds muffled to me).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Razer surround is the absolute worst virtual surround I have demoed.I'll take a very bad Dolby Headphone *Room 3* setting 10x over Razer Surround. All gaming amps with Dolby Headphone use Room 2, FYI. Room 3 is quite bad.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hold on, MLE. HOLD ON FOR JUST A SECOND
  
 NO dedicated 2.0 gaming over Razer Surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh... hmm... it's been awhile since I've used Razer, but I think the smidge more spatial awareness, outweighs it's cons over plain stereo. I just really don't like the limitations of stereo audio for games, UNLESS the games don't have multi speaker audio to begin with, like most 2D platformers, etc. Then I'll, of course take stereo over ANYTHING.

Honestly though, I'm not as anal about virtual surround gaming as I used to be, and do dabble with plain stereo gaming, if I'm playing very casually. What I mean by that, is for example: when I'm winding down before bed, and don't care about audio all that much.

I'm currently playing Valkyria Chronicles, and I honestly am not getting any surround cues anywhere with that game (even though it's supposed to), so I prefer stereo on it.

As far as virtual surround tech goes though, Razer Surround is bottom tier.


----------



## MattKelly

mattkelly said:


> So I'm here trying to revive this conversation, and hopefully we can get some input from both sides - what do you all feel is more important in a competitive FPS headphone?* High detail retrieval or an open soundstage.*


 

 No input here? Super curious about this.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800 has best of both worlds. Why not both then? Also universal with something like Modi 2 Uber/Vali

HD800 + SBX has excellent frontal projection.

also open and detailed: K7XX/712. though lacking Depth in soundstage


----------



## Raika

mad lust envy said:


> Razer surround is the absolute worst virtual surround I have demoed.I'll take a very bad Dolby Headphone *Room 3* setting 10x over Razer Surround. All gaming amps with Dolby Headphone use Room 2, FYI. Room 3 is quite bad.


 

 so what's the best virtual surround prog. ?
  
 will I get any improvment if I add sound card to my dac/amp + beyer t1 ?
  
 what's the best sound card for games ?


----------



## MattKelly

fegefeuer said:


> HD 800 has best of both worlds. Why not both then? Also universal with something like Modi 2 Uber/Vali
> 
> HD800 + SBX has excellent frontal projection.
> 
> also open and detailed: K7XX/712. though lacking Depth in soundstage


 
 Thanks for the response! I'm interested because I need something that isolates well for LAN tournaments, and I need to stay under the $300 mark. That means I can go the route of "biggest soundstage possible on closed headphones" (i.e. AKG K553, SoundMagic HP150, ATH MSR7) or I can go the route of "most detail/separation possible" (i.e. Etymotic HF/ER4). Just curious which would result in a better outcome for competitive FPS.


----------



## pennylane

Is there a consensus on which ModMic is "better"?  Omnidirectional or unidirectional.  It seems like unidirectional would reduce echoes and whatever.
  
 Also, what are people's experiences with dealing with the extra cable from using a ModMic?  I have a couple headphones that I'd like to use as headsets, but I'm also concerned about the inconvenience because I imagine 90% of my headset usage is just so I can chat with people while playing Street Fighter (ie, in-game sounds don't even matter).  So I'm considering just getting some $50 wireless headset instead of the ModMic just so I can have something decent for chatting and convenient enough that I'd actually use it.  Have some people just found the inconvenience of dealing with the extra cable from the ModMic a deterrent?


----------



## Darkangelpt

I was thinking buying mod mic for my akg q701. 
That's a lot of cables if we use it on xbox one. 
And still looking for an amp to. Join the mixamp.


----------



## Yethal

pennylane said:


> Is there a consensus on which ModMic is "better"?  Omnidirectional or unidirectional.  It seems like unidirectional would reduce echoes and whatever.
> 
> Also, what are people's experiences with dealing with the extra cable from using a ModMic?  I have a couple headphones that I'd like to use as headsets, but I'm also concerned about the inconvenience because I imagine 90% of my headset usage is just so I can chat with people while playing Street Fighter (ie, in-game sounds don't even matter).  So I'm considering just getting some $50 wireless headset instead of the ModMic just so I can have something decent for chatting and convenient enough that I'd actually use it.  Have some people just found the inconvenience of dealing with the extra cable from the ModMic a deterrent?


 

 As long as the headphones have removable cable You're set. Just tie them up together. This is how it looks like with my HD598.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, just joined the K267 Tiesto drop. Still in the market for some beaters, and since these are somewhat of AKG's version of the Beyer COP... I figured why not (especially at $125). Just hope the build quality issues have been sorted out with the later models. Pad swapping looks simple, also, in case I opt for some velours.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Well, just joined the K267 Tiesto drop. Still in the market for some beaters, and since these are somewhat of AKG's version of the Beyer COP... I figured why not (especially at $125). Just hope the build quality issues have been sorted out with the later models. Pad swapping looks simple, also, in case I opt for some velours.


 

 If you read on the comments section, it is said that the ones in the drop are the revised version, so built quality issues you should be good to go though I would still be careful with them.

 I was thinking about them but I was like, "I got an M50 and a pair of COPs, do I need this AKG?" answer would be NO. From what some few have said, the K267 have a similarity to the M50 but the K267 seem to focus a bit more on the mids and lows though the highs aren't sacrificed as much. Someone also said that they prefer their sound more compared to the Vmoda M100.
  
 Plus you have three options for different sound, similar to the COP which has 4, which mainly focuses on the low end or bass.

 Honestly, the K267 look very comfortable, even with those pleather pads and look to seal really well. Need to mention they collapse better than the M50 and arent as huge. I bet they sound better than your typical Dre Beats at the similar price range.

 But from reading about the sound signature, if you already have the M50 or the COP, Id probably just skip them and save yourself some money. If not, Im sure you will love them. Of course, comments and reading about the sound is subjective but having both the M50 and COP, I would need to sell one of them in order to have the K267.....or I can just go ahead and purchase them simply because they are Tiesto and AKG headphones lol


----------



## Darkangelpt

Just received my akg q701... 
I'm playing cod with the mixamp only. And the sound is totally fine. 
In fact is too loud for me. 
Is a amp really necessary?


----------



## shuto77

darkangelpt said:


> Just received my akg q701...
> I'm playing cod with the mixamp only. And the sound is totally fine.
> In fact is too loud for me.
> Is a amp really necessary?




It's not necessary, but it will sound better with a good amp or a creative X7. I have the AKG K7XX, which is quite similar to the Q701. It sounded good with the Mixamp, but the X7 lets it shine. 

It ultimately depends on your preferred sound signature and frame of reference, really.

Contrary to popular belief, amplification isn't just for volume. A good amp unlocks a headphone's dynamics, clarity, and soundstage, all important parts of the gaming audio equation.


----------



## grownasssman

So I'm at the point where I'm about to push place order on amazon for a bunch of different audio components and just to make sure I'm doing the right thing I want to run it by you guys especially mad lust envy. So I mostly he on the xbone and I'm still on the fence about getting an x7. I keep switching between that and a mix amp pro probably the one coming out next month with a magni2 uber then possibly a modi 2 uber down the line. Akg q701 a vmoda mic and some psb m4u1s for when closed back is necessary even though I couldn't find anything on their gaming performance. The magni mixamp and modi all together are about the same price or more than just getting an x7 and if the g5 was out now all of my problems would be solved. Should I wait for the g5 get an x7 or go for the schiit stack with a mixamp? Anything else I should consider before making this investment? Thanks for all of the info this forum has provided so far it really pointed me in the right direction.


----------



## shuto77

grownasssman said:


> So I'm at the point where I'm about to push place order on amazon for a bunch of different audio components and just to make sure I'm doing the right thing I want to run it by you guys especially mad lust envy. So I mostly he on the xbone and I'm still on the fence about getting an x7. I keep switching between that and a mix amp pro probably the one coming out next month with a magni2 uber then possibly a modi 2 uber down the line. Akg q701 a vmoda mic and some psb m4u1s for when closed back is necessary even though I couldn't find anything on their gaming performance. The magni mixamp and modi all together are about the same price or more than just getting an x7 and if the g5 was out now all of my problems would be solved. Should I wait for the g5 get an x7 or go for the schiit stack with a mixamp? Anything else I should consider before making this investment? Thanks for all of the info this forum has provided so far it really pointed me in the right direction.




Your Q701s will need an adapter to work with the Vmoda cable, and I don't believe it's readily available. For the rest, I'll defer to the experts.


----------



## shuto77

Oh, hey. After almost a year of hemming and hawing, I finally ordered a Philips Fidelio X2. If I love it, I'll keep it and sell my AKG K7XX. Or maybe I'll keep both. We'll see. 

With my wife working all weekend, looks like I have a date with Geralt of Rivia (Witcher 3), which is less creepy than it sounds.


----------



## rudyae86

grownasssman said:


> So I'm at the point where I'm about to push place order on amazon for a bunch of different audio components and just to make sure I'm doing the right thing I want to run it by you guys especially mad lust envy. So I mostly he on the xbone and I'm still on the fence about getting an x7. I keep switching between that and a mix amp pro probably the one coming out next month with a magni2 uber then possibly a modi 2 uber down the line. Akg q701 a vmoda mic and some psb m4u1s for when closed back is necessary even though I couldn't find anything on their gaming performance. The magni mixamp and modi all together are about the same price or more than just getting an x7 and if the g5 was out now all of my problems would be solved. Should I wait for the g5 get an x7 or go for the schiit stack with a mixamp? Anything else I should consider before making this investment? Thanks for all of the info this forum has provided so far it really pointed me in the right direction.




Just a suggestion but....

Are you patient enough to wait for BF? If yes, I would just wait a bit longer for any good deals that may come up though no guarantee on that. Use camelcamelcamel.com to check prices on Amazon and I think slick deals has their own price tracker as well.

Just putting this out there if you are on a budget and are trying to save some money.


----------



## Blze001

shuto77 said:


> Oh, hey. After almost a year of hemming and hawing, I finally ordered a Philips Fidelio X2. If I love it, I'll keep it and sell my AKG K7XX. Or maybe I'll keep both. We'll see.
> 
> With my wife working all weekend, looks like I have a date with Geralt of Rivia (Witcher 3), which is less creepy than it sounds.


 
  
 Two words: Yennefer's unicorn.


----------



## Darkangelpt

For the people that have x7...
Is that much better than ASTRO mixamp pro? 
In terms of surrounding? 
I'm gonna buy a magni 2 to connect to mixamp pro and akg q701. 
But I'm seeing many people talking about the x7


----------



## lenroot77

darkangelpt said:


> For the people that have x7...
> Is that much better than ASTRO mixamp pro?
> In terms of surrounding?
> I'm gonna buy a magni 2 to connect to mixamp pro and akg q701.
> But I'm seeing many people talking about the x7




As Evshrug's review stated its like taking cotton balls out of your ears. I fully agree with this... There is much more clarity to all sounds. You also have a full suite of options to customize your experience too. That said it's a good chunk of change.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, the X7 is clearly superior.


----------



## Darkangelpt

The cheapest x7 i can find is 400 euros. 
 Any downsides on the x7?
Maybe u could sell my mixamp and not buy my schiit magni 2.


----------



## fullmoon280

hey guys im looking for some new headphones and id like your opinion on these headphones.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/157887895/trinity-vario-headphones
REally inteststed in them due to the build quality and the the fact it comes with 3 earpad sets(pleather,pleather deep,velour deep,)with a possible 4th memory foam set. I got the early bird bid in so i only have to pay $192(retail is $380).Only thing im worried about is how good these will be for gaming.Heres a first impressions for one of the guys beta testing them.http://www.head-fi.org/t/780221/trinity-audio-engineering-prepare-to-launch-new-vario-switchable-open-and-closed-back-full-size-headphone/135#post_11924574
Should i keep my early bird bid and risk being disapointed with these for gaming or should i keep them? Ive only ever used the razer cacharias and sibera v2 so its prob not that hard for me to be impressed.


----------



## AxelCloris

fullmoon280 said:


> hey guys im looking for some new headphones and id like your opinion on these headphones. [Trinity Vario]


 
  
 As nobody here has had the chance to listen to these headphones, we will be unable to provide feedback on that particular model's affinity for gaming.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I'm going to order maybe tomorrow my schiit magni to pair with akg q701 and tell mixamp. 
Think to my budget under 200 euros is the best Amp. 
Hope it makes a difference...


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> The cheapest x7 i can find is 400 euros.
> Any downsides on the x7?
> Maybe u could sell my mixamp and not buy my schiit magni 2.


 
 It requires an external app (either PC or mobile) to utilize all it's functions, it requires additional device for PS4 chat (search for ps4 compatible USB Bluetooth adapter on eBay, or buy Creative's own BT-W2). And of course the main problem: it's *400 euro.* However if You're okay with al that by all means go for it.


----------



## Darkangelpt

yethal said:


> It requires an external app (either PC or mobile) to utilize all it's functions, it requires additional device for PS4 chat (search for ps4 compatible USB Bluetooth adapter on eBay, or buy Creative's own BT-W2). And of course the main problem: it's *400 euro.* However if You're okay with al that by all means go for it.




I think with those downsides IL keep. Y mixamp.


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> I think with those downsides IL keep. Y mixamp.


 
 Or go for Creative's upcoming Sound Blaster G5.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Creative g5 looks like a x7 without some features. Shares some hardware.
I'm about to buy schiit magni. 
Now I see this?that can maybe replace my mixamp and power my akg q701. 
Oh life


----------



## Evshrug

mattkelly said:


> I went on to private message Dreyka and he had some more feedback to offer me on the topic. I'm sure he won't mind me sharing with you all:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm here trying to revive this conversation, and hopefully we can get some input from both sides - what do you all feel is more important in a competitive FPS headphone?* High detail retrieval or an open soundstage.*




Interesting post, and I can align with much of it.

First point on Soundstage vs Imaging...
There was a truly awesome post about the Stax SR-007 comparing soundstage and headstage. The idea was that soundstage is more the ability to make sound project out to seem like it comes from a source further away from your head (like a headphone that sounds like a speaker _over there_, while headstage was more like imaging, the sense of how and where instruments within the audio are spread from each other. So, headstage is pretty close to imaging. While the author said the SR-007 has pretty average soundstage, it had superb headstage/imaging, and though he wasn't "in the room" the imaging allowed him to clearly "see the room" of the music (especially with his eyes closed).

Second, my first pair of great or "audiophile" headphones were Etymotic ER•6i IEMs. Hyper HYPER detailed, and playing a binaural recording will have simply astounding imaging. They would make it easy to concentrate on any particular sound, and tell where things are positioned relative to each other... Does that sound good for gaming to you?

If you think of the advantages of headphone listening over speakers — personal/private, portable, physically smaller, high value — an IEM basically takes all those values logically further. Now, I really LIKE soundstage and the sense of "being in/part of the room," which I think some of the best fullsize headphones provide a great compromise from an amazing speaker setup, and I'd still say the full size over ear headphones are my preference overall because of that, but IEMs are the ideal portable or isolated listening solution. Getting a closed headphone or the (IMO compromised) active noise-cancelling headphones is only a half-assed solution to the goal of isolation... Good IEMs can provide more isolation, are more portable, don't need batteries, (usually) don't have resonance issues, and the Balanced Armature models are like having mini planar magnetic headphones as far as quickness and resolution goes. If you get comfortable eartips, or custom IEMs, you have none of the weight/sweat issues of closed headphones.

If I was going to LANs, I would get CIEMs with a cool design (maybe my team/clan logo), and at home switch between full-sized headphones and the CIEMs. Philosophically speaking, The only time I'd like closed headphones would be if I was somewhere where I needed privacy, but I also needed to frequently be interrupted and take the headphones off & on again.


----------



## fullmoon280

axelcloris said:


> As nobody here has had the chance to listen to these headphones, we will be unable to provide feedback on that particular model's affinity for gaming.


 
 Guess ill just skip it then and get something thats actually been tested since tbh i dont have alot of money to be throwing around on headphones to often if these dont turn out to be any good.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> Interesting post, and I can align with much of it.
> 
> First point on Soundstage vs Imaging...
> There was a truly awesome post about the Stax SR-007 comparing soundstage and headstage. The idea was that soundstage is more the ability to make sound project out to seem like it comes from a source further away from your head (like a headphone that sounds like a speaker _over there_, while headstage was more like imaging, the sense of how and where instruments within the audio are spread from each other. So, headstage is pretty close to imaging. While the author said the SR-007 has pretty average soundstage, it had superb headstage/imaging, and though he wasn't "in the room" the imaging allowed him to clearly "see the room" of the music (especially with his eyes closed).
> ...


 
 Gosh I just love you for this response. Was feeling like I'd never hear back from anyone on this topic. Thank you very very much. I totally agree with you, and to be honest I was about to pull the trigger on the K553, but now I really want to go the route of the Etymotic HF5. The only thing that's holding me back right now is the lack of a decent quality microphone for use with the IEM's. Since I'll be at LAN's, I need something that will do a good job of cancelling out the obnoxiously loud background noise and only pick up my voice - unfortunately that just doesn't seem plausible with in line microphones (such as the HF2/HF3). I have a ModMic just sitting here on my desk, but no headphones to use it with (and obviously can't be used with IEM's, lol). I can return the ModMic and look into clip on mics that are super hypercardioid and omnidirectional, but I'm worried that still won't cut it for noisy LAN's.

 But yes, in your description, the "headstage" (or imaging) would be far superior to soundstage (for my competitive FPS needs).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Examples of headphones with excellent imaging but not the best soundstage, planarmagnetics like the LCD2 and HE400. They excel at the depth and imaging of sound. For out of your head experiences, dynamic headphones are better, but may smear details together i.e. not as good at imaging.


----------



## MattKelly

mad lust envy said:


> Examples of headphones with excellent imaging but not the best soundstage, planarmagnetics like the LCD2 and HE400. They excel at the depth and imaging of sound. For out of your head experiences, dynamic headphones are better, but may smear details together i.e. not as good at imaging.


 
 I'd be really interested in you testing out either the Etymotic HF series or ER-4 series. I know you really have no need to, but I find this topic of soundstage vs. imaging for competitive FPS very intriguing!


----------



## shuto77

mattkelly said:


> I'd be really interested in you testing out either the Etymotic HF series or ER-4 series. I know you really have no need to, but I find this topic of soundstage vs. imaging for competitive FPS very intriguing!




FWIW, I thought my Hifiman Re400 did surprisingly well with imaging since they're fairly neutral and are very clear. I'd reckon the RE600s would be even better in this regard. (BTW, someone was trying to move a pair of these in the classifieds for $135, which is a great price). 

I'd be surprised if those Etymotics were appreciably better than the RE600.


----------



## Evshrug

Super-hyper cardioid! Haha!
I think any mic would pick up at least some background noise, but something cardioid (one-direction of sensitivity) and overall low sensitivity (mostly just picks up sounds close to the mic) would be best for LANs.

For mounting a mic, maybe you could get a relatively stiff wire, attach it to the IEM, loop it up over your ear and stick out towards your mouth, and put a mic on the tip of it. Looping it around the ear ought to give it enough support.

FYI, Zalman Mics are pretty low sensitivity (so you've gotta be able to turn up the gain, luckily PS4 lets you do so) and Omni-directional, so just not very ideal.

Where does one find these loud noisy LANs? I've been to two in my whole life.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Super-hyper cardioid! Haha!
> I think any mic would pick up at least some background noise, but something cardioid (one-direction of sensitivity) and overall low sensitivity (mostly just picks up sounds close to the mic) would be best for LANs.
> 
> For mounting a mic, maybe you could get a relatively stiff wire, attach it to the IEM, loop it up over your ear and stick out towards your mouth, and put a mic on the tip of it. Looping it around the ear ought to give it enough support.
> ...


 
 LAN is dead. We killed it with our high-speed internet connections, always-online consoles and Steam.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> Super-hyper cardioid! Haha!
> I think any mic would pick up at least some background noise, but something cardioid (one-direction of sensitivity) and overall low sensitivity (mostly just picks up sounds close to the mic) would be best for LANs.
> 
> For mounting a mic, maybe you could get a relatively stiff wire, attach it to the IEM, loop it up over your ear and stick out towards your mouth, and put a mic on the tip of it. Looping it around the ear ought to give it enough support.
> ...


 
 Haha, that was meant to be super/hyper cardioid! Both just a more intense pick up pattern than typical cardioid). Perhaps that could be a solution, although at that point I'd probably rather just have another headset on over my IEM's to simplify everything. And LAN's like MLG mainly!


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> LAN is dead. We killed it with our high-speed internet connections, always-online consoles and Steam.



And even before that, casual LAN parties were a hassle to organize and set up logistically. They happened, but...





mattkelly said:


> Haha, that was meant to be super/hyper cardioid! Both just a more intense pick up pattern than typical cardioid). Perhaps that could be a solution, although at that point I'd probably rather just have another headset on over my IEM's to simplify everything. And LAN's like MLG mainly!



Super AND hyper! DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE!! MIC HYPE!
And sure, you could get some closed headset with mic that fits over IEMs, but you're gonna hate the feel, and it would be even more complicated than the DIY method.

I'd love to get into MLG, but I doubt they'd take someone who is 28. Over the hill!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> And even before that, casual LAN parties were a hassle to organize and set up logistically. They happened, but...
> Super AND hyper! DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE!! MIC HYPE!
> And sure, you could get some closed headset with mic that fits over IEMs, but you're gonna hate the feel, and it would be even more complicated than the DIY method.
> 
> I'd love to get into MLG, but I doubt they'd take someone who is 28. Over the hill!


 
 Casual LAN parties are a pain unless everyone has a laptop, in which case You only need to deal with bazillion power bricks on the floor. 
 But god forbid somebody brings a desktop PC. Well, at 28 You could be a COD coach.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> And even before that, casual LAN parties were a hassle to organize and set up logistically. They happened, but...
> Super AND hyper! DOUBLE YOUR PLEASURE!! MIC HYPE!
> And sure, you could get some closed headset with mic that fits over IEMs, but you're gonna hate the feel, and it would be even more complicated than the DIY method.
> 
> I'd love to get into MLG, but I doubt they'd take someone who is 28. Over the hill!


 
 There are some guys around that age that still play, actually! And yeah, you're probably right about the headset over IEM. I'm curious how decent the mic is on the Etymotic HF2/HF3. I hear it's great quality for an inline, and it is placed nicely next to the mouth, but I question whether it would even come close to drowning out the LAN background noise.


----------



## zoum

Hi!
  
 I'm looking to buy my first pair of good headphones for gaming. I have a pair of Bose AE2, but those are used for commuting. I dont like to game with them mainly because i cant hear myself speak due to the closed style.
  
 For gaming I'm using the turtlebeach earforce X11 headset so I want to upgrade. 
  
 At first I wanted the audio-technica ad700x but was worried abou not being comfortable with them (weird handband). Same thing with the AKG q701 (bumps in headband)...So I was thinking about the AKG K612pro since reviews tend to say it's a comfortable pair of headphones. 
  
 I cant try them out since no music store have them near me.
  
 Will i be satisfied with the AKG K612 pro if I'm mainly gaming on FPS like counter strike? Are they comfortable even if the headband is only leather and isnt padded?
  
 thanks!


----------



## Blze001

zoum said:


> Hi!
> 
> I'm looking to buy my first pair of good headphones for gaming. I have a pair of Bose AE2, but those are used for commuting. I dont like to game with them mainly because i cant hear myself speak due to the closed style.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you have an amplifier? The AD700x will work fine without an amp, the Q701s and K612s absolutely need one.
  
 If you do have one, you'll probably be happy with the 612s... that said, the Q701 bumps really aren't as horrible as some reviews might make them seem, and they are really easy to trim off if they do bug you. Never worn the 700x, so I can't tell you if that headband is as horrible as people make it seem.


----------



## zoum

I dont have an amp but I was planning on buying one. I read that the Fiio E10k should be enough without being amazing. 
  
 I dont really get the price difference between the k612 and the q701. Here in canada I can get the k612 for arround 220-240$ and the q701 are 320$ and more. I really like the removable cable of the q701 and I love the colors, but I dont think those features justify the additional 100$. I'm I missing on something or the k612 and the q701 are pretty similar soundwise?


----------



## Thenewguy007

I see Mad Envy owned a Fostex TH-900, did he ever comment on it in the gaming headphone thread?


----------



## Evshrug

zoum said:


> I'm I missing on something or the k612 and the q701 are pretty similar soundwise?



I had both, side by side. K612 vs Q701 is the same story as Sennheiser's HD600 vs HD650: they're both just about as technically capable, but the "lower number" model is more neutral and even in the frequency response (for pro monitoring), while the "higher number" ones have a bit more excitement in flavoring the sound. The K612 is also unique for having a higher impedance than the Q701 (120 ohms vs 62 ohms, respectively), and requires more power and a higher volume setting than any other headphone I've used yet to date... But that's still like good listening volume on an iPhone 5S with one or two volume "boxes" to spare.

I find the AKG headbands comfortable, especially the K612, but if it feels hard then I recommend following the advice from the appreciation threads and get a baby's seatbelt cover to wrap over the headband.

A FiiO E10k is viable to use with the K612. I do use the FiiO sometimes, but it sounds a bit better on high gain mode (a little less grain - aka distortion - and a slightly smoother, richer sound, very slight).





thenewguy007 said:


> I see Mad Envy owned a Fostex TH-900, did he ever comment on it in the gaming headphone thread?




Well, he had it, in fact he loved it, and found it slightly more refined than the TH600, but most of his TH600 comments apply to the TH900. The TH900 was pretty much Mad's ideal sound signature, but he had two great headphones and the TH900 cost more than twice as much as the other. If they're in your budget, great headphones.


----------



## zoum

evshrug said:


> I had both, side by side. K612 vs Q701 is the same story as Sennheiser's HD600 vs HD650: they're both just about as technically capable, but the "lower number" model is more neutral and even in the frequency response (for pro monitoring), while the "higher number" ones have a bit more excitement in flavoring the sound. The K612 is also unique for having a higher impedance than the Q701 (120 ohms vs 62 ohms, respectively), and requires more power and a higher volume setting than any other headphone I've used yet to date... But that's still like good listening volume on an iPhone 5S with one or two volume "boxes" to spare.
> 
> I find the AKG headbands comfortable, especially the K612, but if it feels hard then I recommend following the advice from the appreciation threads and get a baby's seatbelt cover to wrap over the headband.
> 
> A FiiO E10k is viable to use with the K612. I do use the FiiO sometimes, but it sounds a bit better on high gain mode (a little less grain - aka distortion - and a slightly smoother, richer sound, very slight).


 
 Thanks for your answer!
  
 I found i good deal for the audio-technica ad700x. I can have them shipped for 160$ CAD and wont need an amp. I think im willing to try and risk them to be uncomfortable....160$ VS 230$CAD for the k612 + 100$ for the amp...so 160$ VS 330$.... i guess for gaming I will be happy with my 160$ ad700x. What do you think?


----------



## shuto77

I'm surprised to hear (puns, yeah!) people had fit issues with the Philips Fidelio X2. I've been wearing it for about four hours now, with no problems. The AKG K7XX might be *a little* more comfortable, but it's close. I have a slightly larger-than-average headfi, so YMMV. 

I actually prefer the X2 to my old Sennheiser HD598, which was nice, but its earpads got really warm. 

Time to play some Witcher 3!


----------



## Yethal

I have a Rainbow Six beta code for Xbox One I don't need. Anybody wants it?


----------



## motionzmedia

Does the V-Moda BoomMic fit on the COP+?


----------



## Yethal

motionzmedia said:


> Does the V-Moda BoomMic fit on the COP+?


 
 Somebody on the COP impressions thread was using the two together. Alternatively You can buy Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear which was designed to fit the COP.


----------



## motionzmedia

yethal said:


> Somebody on the COP impressions thread was using the two together. Alternatively You can buy Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear which was designed to fit the COP.


 
 Can you link me to it, might wanna read it. (google didn't come up with nothing), and I think the Beyerdynamic mic is like $60, might as well just get a modmic at that point.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> Time to play some Witcher 3!


 
  
 I aim for the knee. Always.


----------



## rudyae86

motionzmedia said:


> Can you link me to it, might wanna read it. (google didn't come up with nothing), and I think the Beyerdynamic mic is like $60, might as well just get a modmic at that point.




Just go for the vmoda boom pro Mic, it works, used it quite a few times with the COPs. Only difference is that the vmoda won't have the locking mechanism compared to the Mic from Beyerdynamic, which I honestly don't see making that much of a difference. Save yourself 30 bucks and go for the vmoda


----------



## motionzmedia

rudyae86 said:


> Just go for the vmoda boom pro Mic, it works, used it quite a few times with the COPs. Only difference is that the vmoda won't have the locking mechanism compared to the Mic from Beyerdynamic, which I honestly don't see making that much of a difference. Save yourself 30 bucks and go for the vmoda


 
 what are you using with the vmoda's now? also thanks


----------



## motionzmedia

also why do you guys want Virtual Surround Sound most people say is bad for gaming and music, since you only have 2 speakers, I am missing something?


----------



## SoupRKnowva

So I just ordered a PS4 and would obviously like to use my HD800s to play, but I also want to be able to chat. From my searching there doesnt seem to be a way to use a mic plugged into the controller and get the chat audio through the speakers(aka the optical output to my headphones). All of that chatter is from back in 2013 though, so did they maybe add that functionality? Cause I used to do it on the 360.
  
 Is the only way to do this to use one of the mixamp pros? Because I also already have the Pioneer SE-DIR800C from back in the Halo 2 days, that I was hoping to use instead of buying a different DH decoder since I already have one.
  
 thanks for the help!


----------



## Yethal

motionzmedia said:


> Can you link me to it, might wanna read it. (google didn't come up with nothing), and I think the Beyerdynamic mic is like $60, might as well just get a modmic at that point.


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/638028/beyerdynamic-custom-one-pro-thread
  
 I have a ModMic and if You have a choice, go for either the BoomPro or the Custom Headset Gear (much less hassle)


motionzmedia said:


> also why do you guys want Virtual Surround Sound most people say is bad for gaming and music, since you only have 2 speakers, I am missing something?


 
 Yup, Virtual Surround is THE way to go as far as headphone gaming is concerned. I'm playing Rainbow Six beta at this moment and thanks to my rig I'm able to hear enemies through walls and ceilings. Give it a try.


----------



## Yethal

souprknowva said:


> So I just ordered a PS4 and would obviously like to use my HD800s to play, but I also want to be able to chat. From my searching there doesnt seem to be a way to use a mic plugged into the controller and get the chat audio through the speakers(aka the optical output to my headphones). All of that chatter is from back in 2013 though, so did they maybe add that functionality? Cause I used to do it on the 360.
> 
> Is the only way to do this to use one of the mixamp pros? Because I also already have the Pioneer SE-DIR800C from back in the Halo 2 days, that I was hoping to use instead of buying a different DH decoder since I already have one.
> 
> thanks for the help!


 
 It is actually possible to use two separate devices for incoming/outgoing chat so You're good to go


----------



## SoupRKnowva

yethal said:


> It is actually possible to use two separate devices for incoming/outgoing chat so You're good to go




So I can run optical into my pioneer DH decoder and then just plug one of those lapel mics into the controller and have the chat audio come through my headphones? 

That's awesome! Thanks for the info man


----------



## rudyae86

motionzmedia said:


> what are you using with the vmoda's now? also thanks


right now in using the vmoda with the Fidelio X2. Like I said, it works really well with the COPs.


----------



## motionzmedia

yethal said:


> http://www.head-fi.org/t/638028/beyerdynamic-custom-one-pro-thread
> 
> I have a ModMic and if You have a choice, go for either the BoomPro or the Custom Headset Gear (much less hassle)
> Yup, Virtual Surround is THE way to go as far as headphone gaming is concerned. I'm playing Rainbow Six beta at this moment and thanks to my rig I'm able to hear enemies through walls and ceilings. Give it a try.


 
 Kind of weird, most people have told me that is actually worst than to use headphones/stereo.
  
 Guess I should try my Hyper X's Cloud 2 surround sound


----------



## Yethal

souprknowva said:


> So I can run optical into my pioneer DH decoder and then just plug one of those lapel mics into the controller and have the chat audio come through my headphones?
> 
> That's awesome! Thanks for the info man


 
 Yup, it works.
  


motionzmedia said:


> Kind of weird, most people have told me that is actually worst than to use headphones/stereo.
> 
> Guess I should try my Hyper X's Cloud 2 surround sound


 
 It will only turn You away, listen to audio samples linked in the first post of this thread. Built in virtual surround (in any headphones) is mediocre.


----------



## motionzmedia

yethal said:


> Yup, it works.
> It will only turn You away, listen to audio samples linked in the first post of this thread. Built in virtual surround (in any headphones) is mediocre.


 
 Is not built in, is trough a USB dongle is came with


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not all virtual surrounds sound similar. And there is always an adjustment period if you've used stereo for so long now. It no longer will sound like a headaset but a virtual room full of speakers around you. That's the thing people seem to ignore. They expect the same exact sound as regular stereo but directional. Sorry, but that's not what it's gonna sound like (unless you set your surround on certain devices to a very low number. Doing that keeps the sound close to stereo, with with some additional depth, however, the surround placement won't be as good as when you go with a high surround setting.

You can either adjust slowly to higher numbers day to day, or do what I recommend: go full high setting, and let it become the normal. It'll be hard to go to a low setting after just spend like a week to adapt to the sound change from stereo to full surround.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Not all virtual surrounds sound similar. And there is always an adjustment period if you've used stereo for so long now. It no longer will sound like a headaset but a virtual room full of speakers around you. That's the thing people seem to ignore. They expect the same exact sound as regular stereo but directional. Sorry, but that's not what it's gonna sound like (unless you set your surround on certain devices to a very low number. Doing that keeps the sound close to stereo, with with some additional depth, however, the surround placement won't be as good as when you go with a high surround setting.
> 
> You can either adjust slowly to higher numbers day to day, or do what I recommend: go full high setting, and let it become the normal. It'll be hard to go to a low setting after just spend like a week to adapt to the sound change from stereo to full surround.




^This

I was new to surround when I first joined and bought the Recon 3D, which had customization settings (though limted for consoles). I always had it set to default 66%, at first, but gradually drifted to full 100% surround setting after adjusting.


----------



## motionzmedia

I guess I will try it, 5.1 or 7.1 what's better in you guys opinion? I honestly barely noticed any difference in my 5.1 surround sound compare to stereo from my mixamp back in the day, can probably use it right now and still notice barely any difference.
  
 Also you guys only use it for gaming, I am correct?


----------



## Fegefeuer

and movies


----------



## avens

yethal said:


> As long as the headphones have removable cable You're set. Just tie them up together. This is how it looks like with my HD598.


 
  
 Alternatively, with the HD598 you can use a BoomPro cable/mic, by doing this.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/541039/sennheiser-hd-598-impressions-thread/2700#post_9752345
  
 Then getting a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter, slim enough so that it fits.
  
 That way the setup consists of only one cable, with the rather useful addition of an in-line volume control. Also this mod allows any 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to be used with the HD598's.
  
 The only possible issue is that you were to accidentally detach the inner-cabling, which is a distinct possibility. Years ago I performed the "foam mod" to my good old 555's and did precisely that, so I had to solder them back in.
  
 edit: BTW I was going to do this mod last weekend to specifically use the BoomPro cable, but forgot. In any case it's confirmed this idea works. https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/2ro9bf/help_sennheiser_hd_598_vmoda_boompro_mic/crbgdoa


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> Super-hyper cardioid! Haha!
> I think any mic would pick up at least some background noise, but something cardioid (one-direction of sensitivity) and overall low sensitivity (mostly just picks up sounds close to the mic) would be best for LANs.
> 
> For mounting a mic, maybe you could get a relatively stiff wire, attach it to the IEM, loop it up over your ear and stick out towards your mouth, and put a mic on the tip of it. Looping it around the ear ought to give it enough support.


 

 So I'm still on a quest to figure out a mic solution to use at noisy MLG LAN's with the Etymotic HF5's. I came across this and wanted some feedback. It's unidirectional, so that's a step in the right direction. It also gets the mic right next to your mouth (a more optimized signal to noise ratio than let's say lapel clip on microphones). I'm wondering if this would pick up any of the background noise, though. I'm looking into this HF5/mic setup for an entire team of four players - so the last thing I want is to get the incredibly isolating Etymotics for us, only to hear the noisy LAN pumped back into them through each teammates' microphones. Here's the link to what I'm talking about - thoughts?

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nady-HM-45U-Uni-Directional-Condenser-Headset-Microphone-3-5mm-locking-Black-/351507568081?hash=item51d77bd5d1

 EDIT: Note the power requirements as well: "Low voltage phantom power required (1.5-6VDC)". I'm a bit inexperienced in the area of amping/power. Do you think this would run fine through the Astro MixAmp (using a Y-splitter to add in the HF5's)?


----------



## Sam21

mattkelly said:


> So I'm still on a quest to figure out a mic solution to use at noisy MLG LAN's with the Etymotic HF5's. I came across this and wanted some feedback. It's unidirectional, so that's a step in the right direction. It also gets the mic right next to your mouth (a more optimized signal to noise ratio than let's say lapel clip on microphones). I'm wondering if this would pick up any of the background noise, though. I'm looking into this HF5/mic setup for an entire team of four players - so the last thing I want is to get the incredibly isolating Etymotics for us, only to hear the noisy LAN pumped back into them through each teammates' microphones. Here's the link to what I'm talking about - thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nady-HM-45U-Uni-Directional-Condenser-Headset-Microphone-3-5mm-locking-Black-/351507568081?hash=item51d77bd5d1
> 
> EDIT: Note the power requirements as well: "Low voltage phantom power required (1.5-6VDC)". I'm a bit inexperienced in the area of amping/power. Do you think this would run fine through the Astro MixAmp (using a Y-splitter to add in the HF5's)?


 
 the plug on that is a problem, I don't think you can plug it into anything you might have. That's not a mic for gaming purposes, If it needs phantom power and you plug it into a Mixamp's mic in for instance, it wouldn't work, This mic has to be used with certain equipment.


----------



## Darkangelpt

wow the new mixamp pro tr is coming out. and it looks great. 
just dont know why they have 2 versions.


----------



## rudyae86

darkangelpt said:


> wow the new mixamp pro tr is coming out. and it looks great.
> just dont know why they have 2 versions.




Can you provide link Or pics?


----------



## Darkangelpt

http://m.highdefdigest.com/news/show/games/price/release-date/features/Call_of_Duty/pax-prime/astro-gaming-announces-new-tr-series-a40-along-with-mixamp-pro-tr-official-mod-kits-black-ops-iii-options/25626

Or 
http://www.astrogaming.com/tr-landing/tr-landing.html

Custom eq s I like it.


----------



## rudyae86

darkangelpt said:


> http://m.highdefdigest.com/news/show/games/price/release-date/features/Call_of_Duty/pax-prime/astro-gaming-announces-new-tr-series-a40-along-with-mixamp-pro-tr-official-mod-kits-black-ops-iii-options/25626
> 
> Or
> http://www.astrogaming.com/tr-landing/tr-landing.html
> ...




Oh that one...yeah, we already saw this a few weeks ago but should be interesting as to how they "bettered" the Astro mix AMP.

They are trying to go the way Creative has been doing things with the Sound Blaster series. It's something Astro should have done from the beginning...


----------



## Darkangelpt

The bad part is that I have a xbox one and a ps4.
And they got 2 version. 
Decisions decisions


----------



## rudyae86

darkangelpt said:


> The bad part is that I have a xbox one and a ps4.
> And they got 2 version.
> Decisions decisions




Well I'm pretty sure you can use both versions with either console and you will probably want the one with the EQ settings.


----------



## Sam21

I have an audiophile grade *hardware* EQ that can get the job done.


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> wow the new mixamp pro tr is coming out. and it looks great.
> just dont know why they have 2 versions.


 

 If it's going to work with Xbox, it is going to work with Ps4 too via PS4 chat cable.


----------



## Darkangelpt

My 2013 mixamp pro works great with the ps4.via usb no extra cables. 
The problem is the xbox one. To many cables. 
How would that work on ps4 if I had the xbox edition mixamp? 
3.5 mm mic to controller?


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> My 2013 mixamp pro works great with the ps4.via usb no extra cables.
> The problem is the xbox one. To many cables.
> How would that work on ps4 if I had the xbox edition mixamp?
> 3.5 mm mic to controller?


 

 Unless Astro somehow were able to connect the Mixamp TR to Xbox via USb they'll be using 3.5mm jack on the controller for chat output and since Dual Shock 4 also has this jack it's going to work.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I've been on ASTRO gaming forum. 
The xbox edition Wil not need any additional cables. 
It will be like the ps4 is to the current mixamp. 
Why the he'll Microsoft don't put usb mic on a update


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> I've been on ASTRO gaming forum.
> The xbox edition Wil not need any additional cables.
> It will be like the ps4 is to the current mixamp.
> Why the he'll Microsoft don't put usb mic on a update


----------



## Sam21

Xbone < PS4 ... keep taking money like that


----------



## Sam21

I bought the Xbone only because of Halo....otherwise, PS4 is superior to Xbone...both game wise and hardware wise..


----------



## Darkangelpt

True ps4 is superior.... 
But since I can get xbox one games much cheaper and easier than ps4. That's where I play the most


----------



## rudyae86

darkangelpt said:


> True ps4 is superior....
> But since I can get xbox one games much cheaper and easier than ps4. That's where I play the most




You get Xbox one games cheaper and easier?

Where do you live that makes it so hard to get PSi games? And they are usually price accordingly to each other. PC on the other hand.....


----------



## Darkangelpt

I live in Portugal. Keep in mind that I don't have any physical game. Have like 30 games all digital. Both consoles. 
To buy in xbox I change region and buy gift card from the market I want and that's it. 
I bought halo 5 pre order edition for 46 euros. 
In ps4 you can buy from different market but the process is much more complex it requires more than one account. One account for each different country you want to buy.


----------



## Sam21

darkangelpt said:


> I live in Portugal. Keep in mind that I don't have any physical game. Have like 30 games all digital. Both consoles.
> To buy in xbox I change region and buy gift card from the market I want and that's it.
> I bought halo 5 pre order edition for 46 euros.
> In ps4 you can buy from different market but the process is much more complex it requires more than one account. One account for each different country you want to buy.


 
  
 not that cheap with current rates...oh well..


----------



## Darkangelpt

46 euros for a new game is damn cheap. 
Here any game is 69.99 euros. 
And since I share my games with my brother is half of the price.


----------



## Luckbad

mattkelly said:


> So I'm still on a quest to figure out a mic solution to use at noisy MLG LAN's with the Etymotic HF5's. I came across this and wanted some feedback. It's unidirectional, so that's a step in the right direction. It also gets the mic right next to your mouth (a more optimized signal to noise ratio than let's say lapel clip on microphones). I'm wondering if this would pick up any of the background noise, though. I'm looking into this HF5/mic setup for an entire team of four players - so the last thing I want is to get the incredibly isolating Etymotics for us, only to hear the noisy LAN pumped back into them through each teammates' microphones. Here's the link to what I'm talking about - thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nady-HM-45U-Uni-Directional-Condenser-Headset-Microphone-3-5mm-locking-Black-/351507568081?hash=item51d77bd5d1
> 
> EDIT: Note the power requirements as well: "Low voltage phantom power required (1.5-6VDC)". I'm a bit inexperienced in the area of amping/power. Do you think this would run fine through the Astro MixAmp (using a Y-splitter to add in the HF5's)?


 
  
 ModMic makes excellent mics.
  
 http://www.modmic.com/
  
 Although they mention something about it sounding weird with MixAmp. Curses.


----------



## raband

My first modmic (a V1) didn't work with my Soundblaster Titanium (personal email and a freebie sent out to Oz - customer service had me confident in the guys) fixed it. The new one that was funky on the mixamp - but the earlier one did work fine.
  
 When I got the X7 the current modmic wasn't anywhere loud enough - plugged in a different modmic and all good.
  
 I think I've got 4 or 5 lying around now (different versions) - one that works with one input may not work with one of the other devices, while the other modmics do.
  
 It's never the same modmic either - it's a bit weird, they're a brilliant unit and am wrapped in them - just happy I have a few I can rotate. It's good that I can leave one of the mics with the device it works with, swap headphones out as I want to and still have chat.


----------



## bavinck

Do you guys have any recommends for a lapel mic that works well with mixamp pro to ps4?


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Do you guys have any recommends for a lapel mic that works well with mixamp pro to ps4?


 
 Check out the first page of this thread


----------



## xela3

Does anyone here have or know someone who's tried mr speakers ether or other ones around that price range? Im looking to get one high end headphone to end them all for quite awhile. Any other suggestions would help as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

While everyone is all about high end gaming, I'm kinda hoping to find a bluetooth headphone to replace my KSC35/Sportapro with, lol. Sennheiser has an MM100 which looks pretty ideal, and it has a premium cost for a neckband headphone with foam pads, so I feel it may be something to look into. I want neckband for the secure fit. They seem a bit overmarked atm for some reason.




xela3 said:


> Does anyone here have or know someone who's tried mr speakers ether or other ones around that price range? Im looking to get one high end headphone to end them all for quite awhile. Any other suggestions would help as well.




AxelCloris has given impressions on the Ether for gaming various times. Fegefeuer loves the HD800 for gaming as well.


----------



## conquerator2

Most high-end headphones are great for gaming be it for their immersion, accuracy, fun sound or all.
Good headphone = good gaming headphone basically. Though there are some exceptions like the Ultrasone Pro900 which would be mediocre for listening to music but good for gaming


----------



## Change is Good

I'm greatly satisfied in the mid-tier range, enough that I have withheld from buying anything over $500. Then, again, since only spending $199 on the bargain that is the K7XX, it's been hard for me to justify going higher than $300 on any headphone/audio purchase (reason I sold the 400i even though it was sonically better).

Budget and income has much to do with that, though. If I had some of your salaries I'd probably be buying $1k+ headphones and setups, as well.


----------



## Ethan Groover

Is it planned to add the Sennheiser HD-700 to this guide at some point? It has got to be the absolute best competitive gaming headphone money can buy aside from the HD800.


----------



## rudyae86

fuhrerkbradley said:


> Is it planned to add the Sennheiser HD-700 to this guide at some point? It has got to be the absolute best competitive gaming headphone money can buy aside from the HD800.


 
  
 Completely subjective...


----------



## dakanao

Is anyone using the Philips Fidelio L2 here for competitive gaming? I think they're pretty good for that..


----------



## Tic-Tac

I'm looking for a headphone that has a powerful bass, I'm not all into that positional audio stuff, now just a casual FPS player. I'm more into full immersion in various games and movies and that is really important to me.
  
 Good wireless headphone  is very hard to find so I'm opened for a wired too.


----------



## rudyae86

tic-tac said:


> I'm looking for a headphone that has a powerful bass, I'm not all into that positional audio stuff, now just a casual FPS player. I'm more into full immersion in various games and movies and that is really important to me.
> 
> Good wireless headphone  is very hard to find so I'm opened for a wired too.


 
 Philips Fidelio X1/X2


----------



## Sam21

just ordered X7...sold my bifrost in order to get it...better be good or punishment shall be upon YOU!


----------



## Tic-Tac

rudyae86 said:


> Philips Fidelio X1/X2




Good headphones but they are open backs, I need closed back... Up to 200€...


----------



## rudyae86

tic-tac said:


> Good headphones but they are open backs, I need closed back... Up to 200€...


 
 I have the Beyerdynamic COP and they sound really good on slider 2 and 3. Or you cant go for the DT770 as well. There is also the Soundmagic HP100 I think or HP150 that sound pretty good for their price.
  
 Since you dont care about open backs and prefer closed backs, whats your budget like?


----------



## Tic-Tac

My budget is up to 200€. Btw I saw that OP rated those Skullcandy wireless very good and I'm wondering hows that?


----------



## rudyae86

tic-tac said:


> My budget is up to 200€. Btw I saw that OP rated those Skullcandy wireless very good and I'm wondering hows that?


 
 Have not ever tried them so you might want to PM that person that asked. MLE has his review in page 1 if you want something detailed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Skulcandy Plyr1 has a good amount of bass. I would say those are a good choice. I certainly like them enough.


----------



## Tic-Tac

How would you compare them to Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro? To be honest Skullcandy to me does not scream _quality._


----------



## HaZiLLa

What would be a good choice of external DAC and amp for upgrading froma asus xonar essence stx to power Beyerdynamics DT770pro (80ohms), for gaming? Also I use a microphone, so how do I go about using that with a DAC?


----------



## lilboozy

If I don't already have a mixamp or a mic, is the A40 + Mixamp bundle the best deal or could I get something better by buying the mixamp separately + something else?


----------



## Sam21

lilboozy said:


> If I don't already have a mixamp or a mic, is the A40 + Mixamp bundle the best deal or could I get something better by buying the mixamp separately + something else?


 
 There are budget headphones( below 50 usd ) that easily kick A40`s ass...


----------



## bavinck

tic-tac said:


> I'm looking for a headphone that has a powerful bass, I'm not all into that positional audio stuff, now just a casual FPS player. I'm more into full immersion in various games and movies and that is really important to me.
> 
> 
> Good wireless headphone  is very hard to find so I'm opened for a wired too.




Based on what you are looking for I think you would love Vmoda m100. Closed can, very solid and tight bass that doesn't bleed or over power the mids and treble. 3.5mm detachable cable that you can add their boompro mic to for gaming. I found the treble peak on the dt770s to be too much, and the bass response (on the 250ohm anyway) to be lacking for me.


----------



## conquerator2

M100 and no overpowering bass? Mkay :blink:
I guess mileage varries!


----------



## AxelCloris

dakanao said:


> Is anyone using the Philips Fidelio L2 here for competitive gaming? I think they're pretty good for that..


 
  
 I had them at one point. They were pretty enjoyable for immersive gaming, don't remember doing many competitive tests with them.


----------



## Tic-Tac

bavinck said:


> Based on what you are looking for I think you would love Vmoda m100. Closed can, very solid and tight bass that doesn't bleed or over power the mids and treble. 3.5mm detachable cable that you can add their boompro mic to for gaming. I found the treble peak on the dt770s to be too much, and the bass response (on the 250ohm anyway) to be lacking for me.


 
  
 V-Moda M100 are too expensive for me, I'm not intending to pay over 200€. Need closed ones or at least semi-open to not disturb another person who is with me in the room as well as the opposite.
  
 I don't like bass choking mids and highs but I just need a punchy bass, more immersive bass in movies and games, want to feel whatever's going on on the screen, like a great full movies/games experience, not playing competitive (play casual BF4) so I don't have to hear EVERY footstep 
  
 P.S. Yeah, I've tried those DT-770 250Ohm version and that bass was not punchy, not immersive at all, it was high quality though.


----------



## conquerator2

Philips Fidelio L2 is semi open. Quote good.


----------



## dakanao

conquerator2 said:


> Philips Fidelio L2 is semi open. Quote good.


 
 Imo excellent even. A clear upgrade to the Creative Aurvana Live for either competitive play or immersive gaming or just music.


----------



## raband

conquerator2 said:


> M100 and no overpowering bass? Mkay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 They have heaps of of bass - but it's not obnoxious
  
 Overpowering as in - you can still hear the rest of the sound spectrum while the bass is HAPPENING?
  
 Love the M100's - you get a freakingly good bass experience, but you also get to hear the rest of the sound while the bass is happening.
  
 When there's no bass they are still bloody awesome.
  
 For a FPS - thread............
  
 Fark me - when I shoot the big guns, I feel it - in my head
  
 When I'm walking around - sound is small halo around me, but still directional.
  
 My biggest (only) problem with them is that they are more on ear that over ear - will order the bigger/oversized pads


----------



## Fegefeuer

I liked the M100 after weeks of scepticism. Imo pretty good for travels and general outside usage. Punchy, hitting good and decent dynamics. That early bass rise is troublesome at home but for mobile use in trains, buses it makes good sense.


----------



## raband

They make bad source sound good 
  
 They don't steal much from good source.
  
 Pads warm up quick and are a bit small 
  
 First closed can I've ever actually reached for rather than dodging


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I kinda really want the Sennheiser PMX95, but it's out of stock everywhere in the US...

I wonder if they're just PX100-II in neckband form. I'm TOTALLY down for that. LOVE the PX100-II, though the clamp...THE CLAMP.


----------



## MattKelly

Deleted.


----------



## AxelCloris

mattkelly said:


> [snip]


 

 Those kinds of sites are against the Head-Fi TOS. I'd recommend editing your post and removing the name.


----------



## MattKelly

axelcloris said:


> Those kinds of sites are against the Head-Fi TOS. I'd recommend editing your post and removing the name.


 
 Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## shuto77

@mattkelly asked me on Twitter to compare the imaging and soundstage of the AKG K7XX to the Philips Fidelio X2. I've never done a full review, and just now have a setup appropriate for the task 

I'd give the K7XX a 9.5 for soundstage and an 8.0 for imaging. I think the large soundstage hurts imaging slightly, tbh. 

I'd give the X2 an 8.5 for sounstage and an 8.0 for imaging in my early assessment. Its slightly smaller soundstage complements the imaging nicely. 

Despite how much I like the AKGs, I prefer the fun (maybe it's the extra, but not bloated, bass that's the secret sauce for me) of the X2. 

I feel the AKGs are great, and much better than the Sennheiser HD598 (which was a nice starter can), but just prefer the slightly more fun sound signature of the X2s.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to chime in. I'm still a relative newb.


----------



## octiceps

shuto77 said:


> @mattkelly asked me on Twitter to compare the imaging and soundstage of the AKG K7XX to the Philips Fidelio X2. I've never done a full review, and just now have a setup appropriate for the task
> 
> I'd give the K7XX a 9.5 for soundstage and an 8.0 for imaging. I think the large soundstage hurts imaging slightly, tbh.
> 
> ...




I have the X2 and K712 but have only heard the K7XX for about an hour. If the K7XX is as similar to the K712 as I think it is, I'd say the AKG is more technically capable. It's more resolving with complex multi-layered music and faster.


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah AKG is better but they are both good and capable cans for the price (K7XX).


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> I kinda really want the Sennheiser PMX95, but it's out of stock everywhere in the US...
> 
> I wonder if they're just PX100-II in neckband form. I'm TOTALLY down for that. LOVE the PX100-II, though the clamp...THE CLAMP.


 
 DAT SENN CLAMP


----------



## Blze001

shuto77 said:


> @mattkelly asked me on Twitter to compare the imaging and soundstage of the AKG K7XX to the Philips Fidelio X2. I've never done a full review, and just now have a setup appropriate for the task
> 
> I'd give the K7XX a 9.5 for soundstage and an 8.0 for imaging. I think the large soundstage hurts imaging slightly, tbh.
> 
> ...


 
  
 From my listening of the X2 and my Q701 (Close to the K7XX as far as I know), I'd say the AKG's superiority is directly proportional to the complexity of the music and the X2 gets better the more bass is an integral part of the music. In basic terms, the X2 is more enjoyable for electronic and rock songs, the AKG's win hands down in classical and jazz.
  
 For video games, it's closer. The AKG's seem to handle positional cues better, but things rumble more with X2s.
  
 If someone asked my advice as to which one to get (assuming they have an amp, of course), I'd tell them to flip a coin and enjoy.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Still no answer on question : Immersive FUN closed headphones for movies and gaming on PC ?


----------



## kayan

tic-tac said:


> Still no answer on question : Immersive FUN closed headphones for movies and gaming on PC ?




How much are you looking to spend?


----------



## Tic-Tac

Up to 200 euros...


----------



## bavinck

tic-tac said:


> Still no answer on question : Immersive FUN closed headphones for movies and gaming on PC ?




M100s are less than 300 cad, which is less than 200 Eur.


----------



## Tic-Tac

V-Moda M-100? They are 250-290 euro in Germany...
  
 What about these? :
  
 http://www.amazon.de/Audio-Technica-ATH-MSR7-High-Resolution-Kopfh%C3%B6rer/dp/B00PEUBIKM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1443537747&sr=8-2&keywords=audio+technica+msr7
  
 http://www.amazon.de/Fostex-15117552-HEADPHONE-T-50-RP/dp/B000CZ0RO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443534085&sr=8-1&keywords=Fostex+T50rp
  
 http://www.amazon.de/German-Maestro-GMP-8-35-MONITOR/dp/B005SRJNFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443533944&sr=8-1&keywords=GMP+8.35D
  
 http://www.amazon.de/Teufel-Massive-Ohrumschlie%C3%9Fender-geschlossener-HiFi-Kopfh%C3%B6rer/dp/B00U8UE03U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=08Q0TRK6BF1EJ29TYVX8&dpID=41kChNgS3eL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_
  
 http://www.amazon.de/SOUL-Active-Cancelling-Over-Ear-Reisekopfh%C3%B6rer-Silber/dp/B00Q6JWOXK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=08Q0TRK6BF1EJ29TYVX8&dpID=41pfDptaurL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR129%2C160_
  
 http://www.amazon.de/beyerdynamic-719021-CUSTOM-Edition-Classic-ClassicBrown/dp/B00WIED4CW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_267_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1DFBXW7CTXAAMC4KCCGY&dpID=413QQVrrtML&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR113%2C160_
  
 Or some Sony's?


----------



## MattKelly

shuto77 said:


> @mattkelly asked me on Twitter to compare the imaging and soundstage of the AKG K7XX to the Philips Fidelio X2. I've never done a full review, and just now have a setup appropriate for the task
> 
> I'd give the K7XX a 9.5 for soundstage and an 8.0 for imaging. I think the large soundstage hurts imaging slightly, tbh.
> 
> ...


 
 Hey! Thanks for following up with me and posting on here. Really appreciate the info.
  


octiceps said:


> I have the X2 and K712 but have only heard the K7XX for about an hour. If the K7XX is as similar to the K712 as I think it is, I'd say the AKG is more technically capable. It's more resolving with complex multi-layered music and faster.


 
 Yeah, I've settled on the K7XX with a ModMic 4.0. When I go to competitive LAN's and need isolation I'll use some Etymotic HF5's underneath the AKG/ModMic setup. The K7XX is a ridiculous bang for your buck at $200.


 EDIT: Also, the fact that I just got a brand new HF5 off eBay for $54 is ridiculous, considering they are the same drivers as the $300 ER-4. Super stoked about the price I got them for, haha.


----------



## rudyae86

tic-tac said:


> Up to 200 euros...




Have you read the first page of this thread? Page 1 has a lot of info and then tell us what you think from that list...


----------



## Darkangelpt

Hey guys. 
My schiit magni 2 arrived 2 days ago. 
And I connected to my mixamp pro. 
But was barely any difference than loudness . a bit disappointing.
Tried in cod ghosts. Wich for me is easiest one to hear steps


----------



## lilboozy

sam21 said:


> There are budget headphones( below 50 usd ) that easily kick A40`s ass...


 
 Which ones and are they closed or at least isolate enough to where I won't hear other people and vice versa?
  
 Also do they have a mic?


----------



## conquerator2

This would be my pick if I were looking in that range - http://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-KHX-H3CL/dp/B00JJNQG98


----------



## Sam21

superlux HD681 EVO
  
 Panasonic HTF600
  
 Monoprice 108323
  
 KOSS proDJ 100
  
 CAL!
  
 and many others


----------



## xela3

How much of a step  up would somethin like the fidelio x2 or shure 1540/1840 be from the hd 558? Its been what ive been using for my pc and ps4/xbox one so im looking for a big upgrade.


----------



## shuto77

mattkelly said:


> Hey! Thanks for following up with me and posting on here. Really appreciate the info.
> 
> Yeah, I've settled on the K7XX with a ModMic 4.0. When I go to competitive LAN's and need isolation I'll use some Etymotic HF5's underneath the AKG/ModMic setup. The K7XX is a ridiculous bang for your buck at $200.
> 
> ...




Good luck! I can definitely say the K7XX are well worth the $200, especially for gaming. 

The etymotics will be good, especially at that price. 

Let us know how you enjoy them.


----------



## shuto77

blze001 said:


> From my listening of the X2 and my Q701 (Close to the K7XX as far as I know), I'd say the AKG's superiority is directly proportional to the complexity of the music and the X2 gets better the more bass is an integral part of the music. In basic terms, the X2 is more enjoyable for electronic and rock songs, the AKG's win hands down in classical and jazz.
> 
> For video games, it's closer. The AKG's seem to handle positional cues better, but things rumble more with X2s.
> 
> If someone asked my advice as to which one to get (assuming they have an amp, of course), I'd tell them to flip a coin and enjoy.




Yeah, I agree with this. I'm probably going to keep both.


----------



## AxelCloris

xela3 said:


> How much of a step  up would somethin like the fidelio x2 or shure 1540/1840 be from the hd 558? Its been what ive been using for my pc and ps4/xbox one so im looking for a big upgrade.


 

 I approve of your avatar, mii.


----------



## xela3

axelcloris said:


> I approve of your avatar, mii.


 
 yes


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tiramie! Best character.


----------



## lilboozy

sam21 said:


> superlux HD681 EVO
> 
> Panasonic HTF600
> 
> ...


 
 none have a mic


----------



## Sam21

Buy a high quality condenser desktop mic....


----------



## raband

Am going to borrow some RS180 wireless and see if I can feed them through the mixamp and the X7 over the weekend.
  
 They're pretty light - will be interesting if they translate ok or if the transmitting does something funky with the signal.
  
 If they go OK I'll be looking at the new ones (take digital) and doing the PC "What you hear" via optical.
  
 edit - will be comparing with the 598's - they're meant to be 558 level of headphone and that's the closest I have


----------



## Sonikku13

Does anyone know if the Aune T1 works with the PS4? I know the O2+ODAC combo works with the PS3, but the PS4 is a different console, and I'm using a different DAC. Due to the quirks of the Aune T1, I must be able to use it via USB.
  
 Anyone know if external DACs work with the PS4 via USB?


----------



## lilboozy

sam21 said:


> Buy a high quality condenser desktop mic....


 
 but I play in my living room, sometimes in my bed, sometimes at my friends' house etc. so I don't want to move it around everywhere
  
 Does anyone know have any other opinions on @conquerator2's recommendation? He recommended these: http://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-KHX-H3CL/dp/B00JJNQG98
  
 Are they better than the A40's?


----------



## conquerator2

Certainly better.


----------



## xela3

Does someone here have an opinion on if I should get the shure 1840/1540 or philips fidelio x2? Im looking for an upgrade from the hd 558


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering the open vs closed nature, I'd say go for the X2 over the 1540. If you want isolation, then the 1540 is damn good. I would pass on the 1840 as I feel it's a bit overpriced, and lacking in musicality in general.


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> Considering the open vs closed nature, I'd say go for the X2 over the 1540. If you want isolation, then the 1540 is damn good. I would pass on the 1840 as I feel it's a bit overpriced, and lacking in musicality in general.




Thanks, I read that the x2 should be very good and I'm looking for an immersive headphone with a good sound stage but is it a decent upgrade from the hd558? I don't want to get a new headphone that won't be much better then my current one


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd say it's an upgrade but it's slightly different in tone. The HD558 is richer in the midrange than the X2, and the X2 has a more immersive bass impact, and more sparkle up top. I'd say it's worth the purchase, though the HD558 is pretty damn good itself.


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> I'd say it's an upgrade but it's slightly different in tone. The HD558 is richer in the midrange than the X2, and the X2 has a more immersive bass impact, and more sparkle up top. I'd say it's worth the purchase, though the HD558 is pretty damn good itself.




Thanks, is there anything else you'd recommend that's currently at $300? I'd like to retire my 558s for my consoles and get something that's decently better for of only use for counter strike/ immersive gaming, etc


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> Thanks, is there anything else you'd recommend that's currently at $300? I'd like to retire my 558s for my consoles and get something that's decently better for of only use for counter strike/ immersive gaming, etc




You could get the X2 cheaper from the Amazon warehouse though YMMV.


----------



## xela3

rudyae86 said:


> You could get the X2 cheaper from the Amazon warehouse though YMMV.


 
 I actually tried looking actually and its like a $10 difference, would you say the x2 is one of the better heapdhones for immersion at this price range? I really want something that will make the sound experience for star wars battlefront, fallout 4, etc amazing.


----------



## Sam21

what do you mean by "immersion" ?


----------



## bavinck

xela3 said:


> I actually tried looking actually and its like a $10 difference, would you say the x2 is one of the better heapdhones for immersion at this price range? I really want something that will make the sound experience for star wars battlefront, fallout 4, etc amazing.




I find the k7xx to be extremely Immersive, and cheaper than the x2.


----------



## xela3

sam21 said:


> what do you mean by "immersion" ?


 
 I guess something that just has a great sound stage so that you can feel like you're actually there or just hear everything in a sense.


----------



## xela3

bavinck said:


> I find the k7xx to be extremely Immersive, and cheaper than the x2.


 
 Ive tried it before and I thought it was good but I didnt feel that it was that much better then my 558s.


----------



## octiceps

xela3 said:


> Ive tried it before and I thought it was good but I didnt feel that it was that much better then my 558s.




The K7XX needs amping to reach its potential. It's better than the Fidelio X2 IMO, to say nothing of the 558.


----------



## Sam21

xela3 said:


> I guess something that just has a great sound stage so that you can feel like you're actually there or just hear everything in a sense.


 
  
 the K7?? series/Q701/HD598 have the best soundstages among other headphones...
  
 DT990/X2/HE-400 etc have the best bass in the mid-fi range..
  
 My favourite headphone is the DT990. It has nice bass with amazing separation. the soundstage is a tad smaller than the ones I mentioned first. It is harsh with trebly tracks and MLE says dolby headphone tames the highs in gaming...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X2 is more immersive than the K7XX for sure.

For $300, I can't think of anything I'd choose over the X2. For $400-ish, TH600 if I could live with non-velour pads.

But honestly with $400 I want the convenience of the Sennheiser RS185.


----------



## xela3

octiceps said:


> The K7XX needs amping to reach its potential. It's better than the Fidelio X2 IMO, to say nothing of the 558.


 
 Are there any others that youd recommend other than the k7xx?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For $300, I would still be happy with the HE400 despite it's faults. It's planar, and planars are special. It'd be my second choice after the X2.


----------



## xela3

mad lust envy said:


> The X2 is more immersive than the K7XX for sure.
> 
> For $300, I can't think of anything I'd choose over the X2. For $400-ish, TH600 if I could live with non-velour pads.
> 
> But honestly with $400 I want the convenience of the Sennheiser RS185.


 
 Alright thanks Ill definitely have to see about getting a pair for all the games coming out in november


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> I actually tried looking actually and its like a $10 difference, would you say the x2 is one of the better heapdhones for immersion at this price range? I really want something that will make the sound experience for star wars battlefront, fallout 4, etc amazing.




Well at one point they were at about $200 used from AWD. I got a pair and they look brand new when I got them.


----------



## octiceps

xela3 said:


> Are there any others that youd recommend other than the k7xx?




What's wrong with the K7XX? You can't beat the ATH-AD and AKG K7 series for soundstage in gaming, and the K712 and K7XX have some nice bass.


----------



## xela3

octiceps said:


> What's wrong with the K7XX? You can't beat the ATH-AD and AKG K7 series for soundstage in gaming, and the K712 and K7XX have some nice bass.


 
 I never said there was anything wrong with the k7xx, I just like having options and trying some new headphone.


----------



## xela3

Oh one other thing the audio store near me has a few headphones usually in stock and with their setup I generally like a few of them but obviously I can't test them for gaming purposes, but does anyone here have experience with the shure 940, or ath m70x

 Edit: Also some guy near me is selling his Sennheiser hd 700 for $400, is that a deal I should go with


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> Oh one other thing the audio store near me has a few headphones usually in stock and with their setup I generally like a few of them but obviously I can't test them for gaming purposes, but does anyone here have experience with the shure 940, or ath m70x
> 
> Edit: Also some guy near me is selling his Sennheiser hd 700 for $400, is that a deal I should go with


 
  
  
 I know for a fact that the M70X has almost no bass, well compared to the M50X of course, which really are two different headphones. Soundstage may be bigger on the M70X from what I have read but thats all I know.
  
 You know, most of us in here can only give so much info on the headphones that are on the first page. Anything that is not on the first page of this thread is a hit or miss in terms of personal opinions or they have their own thread.

 Not all headphones match well with virtual surround sound, just keep that in mind.
  
 Whats funny though is that you ask for an opinion and we recommend certain headphones but you come back with Shure 940 or M70X. I would just follow what has been tried and true. No need to look for other headphones of which you might not like just because you are basing off different peoples opinions and in other threads.

 If we say that the X2 is the bang for buck of your money, thats because it is and many own this headphone and love it and maybe a small amount of people dont like it because its too "bassy".

 The only way you will know if the headphone is for you is if you try them yourself...period. No matter how good the description of the sound signature for said headphone will make you believe its as good as hearing it yourself.
  
 Hopefully this will give you more of an insight and keep you on track of what you may really want. Having too many options is not good and will only confuse you more.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I have a akg q701... 
And all the people said etc an amp it will get much better. 
I bought a magni 2 and paired it. 
The difference is nothing special. 
Much louder and the bass sometimes a bit more powerful.


----------



## xela3

rudyae86 said:


> I know for a fact that the M70X has almost no bass, well compared to the M50X of course, which really are two different headphones. Soundstage may be bigger on the M70X from what I have read but thats all I know.
> 
> You know, most of us in here can only give so much info on the headphones that are on the first page. Anything that is not on the first page of this thread is a hit or miss in terms of personal opinions or they have their own thread.
> 
> ...





Gotcha sorry about that I'll end the questions here


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

darkangelpt said:


> I have a akg q701...
> And all the people said etc an amp it will get much better.
> I bought a magni 2 and paired it.
> The difference is nothing special.
> Much louder and the bass sometimes a bit more powerful.




In audio "a bit more powerful" = a big difference

We're playing a game of subtleties. It doesn't help that you're pairing the Q701 with the Magni which isn't feeding it a large amount of current at it's impedance. The Magni is best with 32 ohm headphones, which the Q701 is not. You would need to step up to big boy amps to make the Q701 play to it's strengths.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Something like? 
To pair with the akg q701...


----------



## Blze001

darkangelpt said:


> Something like?
> To pair with the akg q701...


 
  
 Sticking with the Schiit offerings, the Valhalla and Asgard are good pairings for the Q701s with the Valhalla being the better of the two.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Te schiit asgard 2 and Valhalla are way ahead of my budget for an amp. 
Spend 200 euros on te q701. 
Not spending another 400 for just an amp. 
Not worth it. 
I think in general already have a good sound for gaming. 
Waiting for the new mixamp pro tr. 
To see if is there any improvement with the custom eq. 
And less cables for Xbox one.


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> Gotcha sorry about that I'll end the questions here




No, I don't mean to come off rude, it's just that if we recommend something and you come back asking about a pair of headphones we don't really know much about, don't expect to get a good answer and it also makes me feel like you Aren't listening to what we have to say.

You can ask ask the questions you want but just don't over do it with almost repeating the same question again.


----------



## shuto77

@Xela3

Once you decide the following:
1) Your preferred sound signature
2) Your budget (headphone plus amp, sound card, etc) 
3) Open vs closed
4) How picky you are regarding comfort 

Your choices are narrowed into focus. 

It's helpful to try 8-10 pairs of good headphones for reference. Over time, you learn what your preferences are. Since most of us can't afford to do that all at once, perhaps you should buy something recommended here, used in the classifieds section. You can always sell it for little loss if you take good care of it.


----------



## Blze001

I got two questions for you guys:
  
 First question: Right now I'm using a Turtle Beach DSS2 without any of the additional crap turned on: signal comes in the optical, goes out the 3.5mm output. Do you guys think I'd see any noticeable improvement if I upped to a SMSL 793II or Sabre SPDIF DAC? (My CD player uses an optical out, so pure USB DAC's aren't an option, unfortunately). I prefer playing in stereo, so virtual surround and all of that fancyness isn't a concern.
  
 Second question: My ModMic does not like my motherboard's Realtek onboard audio, any ideas on a good USB option I could use to bypass the problem chip? I'm looking at the Behringer 302USB... I don't know if there are 3.5mm to XLR adaptors that'd let me use a Focusrite.
  
 I know the tube/headphone side of things pretty well, but the DAC side still confuses me a little.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well with headphones like the Q701, you give up the right to complain about its abilities if you paired with a budget amp. Seriously, the Q701 is a studio Headphone notoriously known to need some big boy amps to truly bring out it's best. The Magni is far from a big boy amp. The Q701s gaming potential is less strict hence why I don't typically adhere to the audiophile recommendation of big boy amps. 

Not only this, but the Magni is slightly brighter than neutral which doesn't do those headphones any scaling favors, and improper synergy. 

Again, for gaming it's fine, for serious listening, no. It's essentially a glorified volume booster for aiding stuff like the Mixamps, that's about it.


----------



## Saad Abdul Aziz

mad lust envy said:


> Well with headphones like the Q701, you give up the right to complain about its abilities if you paired with a budget amp. Seriously, the Q701 is a studio Headphone notoriously known to need some big boy amps to truly bring out it's best. The Magni is far from a big boy amp. The Q701s gaming potential is less strict hence why I don't typically adhere to the audiophile recommendation of big boy amps.
> 
> Not only this, but the Magni is slightly brighter than neutral which doesn't do those headphones any scaling favors, and improper synergy.
> 
> Again, for gaming it's fine, for serious listening, no. It's essentially a glorified volume booster for aiding stuff like the Mixamps, that's about it.


 
@Mad Lust Envy what do you think HD800 is still the king of sound stage or does the HE1000 triumph it now am torn i have the hd800 and have money saved up and really wanna go all in on the HE1000 but if its not atleast equal in soundstage to the hd800 than I dont care much for the other qualities


----------



## shuto77

saad abdul aziz said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> what do you think HD800 is still the king of sound stage or does the HE1000 triumph it now am torn i have the hd800 and have money saved up and really wanna go all in on the HE1000 but if its not atleast equal in soundstage to the hd800 than I dont care much for the other qualities




Take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt (since $500 usd is the max I can pay for headphones), but remember that the HE-1000 costs $3000. For that amount of money, you could buy a MrSpeakers Ether ($1500) and a Fostex Th-900 ($1200),and still have money left over. 

Just my two cents...


----------



## conquerator2

saad abdul aziz said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> what do you think HD800 is still the king of sound stage or does the HE1000 triumph it now am torn i have the hd800 and have money saved up and really wanna go all in on the HE1000 but if its not atleast equal in soundstage to the hd800 than I dont care much for the other qualities




I am saving for the HEK.
I love the sound but YMMV.
The HD800 and HE1000 sound fairly different.
I think the HEK will get near perfect scores in both immersion and fun as it is both very musical and very detailed. First headphone to combine the two IMO.
Ideally, you wanna hear it yourself before buying


----------



## Saad Abdul Aziz

shuto77 said:


> Take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt (since $500 usd is the max I can pay for headphones), but remember that the HE-1000 costs $3000. For that amount of money, you could buy a MrSpeakers Ether ($1500) and a Fostex Th-900 ($1200),and still have money left over.
> 
> Just my two cents...


 
 dont want speakers I want the best headphone I can get with sound stage atleast equal to the hd800 because i know in other departments it beats it but i also want my gaming to be at par with the hd 800 crazy performance


----------



## conquerator2

saad abdul aziz said:


> dont want speakers I want the best headphone I can get with sound stage atleast equal to the hd800 because i know in other departments it beats it but i also want my gaming to be at par with the hd 800 crazy performance




I don't think you'll get HD800 soundstage with any other headphone. The HEK is close though.
At 1K and above, it's much a matter of taste and preference


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Perhaps an AKG K1000


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Perhaps an AKG K1000




Yeah, that one would do 
The K1K


----------



## joshuaejones1

So I am trying to build a headset for use with my xbox one. Here are my requirements:

Virtual surround. 
It can be wired to controller for game chat. 
Wireless from headset to amp. 
Amp hooked up with optical for best sound. 

I've been looking at gaming headsets like TB 500/800x and Astro A50. I don't like the review for either. I sit pretty far away from the TV and I have a 4 month old son, so I can't have wires running across the living room floor. 

Are there any headsets that will wirelessly connect to the Astro mix amp or similar product? Again, I don't care if the headset has to connect to the controller for chat.


----------



## rudyae86

joshuaejones1 said:


> So I am trying to build a headset for use with my xbox one. Here are my requirements:
> 
> Virtual surround.
> It can be wired to controller for game chat.
> ...


 
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0148NPJ78/
  
 Dont know how these sound and have recently been released. A software/firmware update is on its way to make thme DTS Headphone X compatible. Some people have said they sound similar to the HD650....It also says it used Dolby Surround Sound, which I dont think its similar to Dolby Headphone. I want to think it may be similar to a ProLogic algorithm but dont quote me on that...

 Take a read.
  
 EDIT: Nevermind, doesnt do Surround sound on consoles, only on PC


----------



## joshuaejones1

rudyae86 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0148NPJ78/
> 
> Dont know how these sound and have recently been released. A software/firmware update is on its way to make thme DTS Headphone X compatible. Some people have said they sound similar to the HD650....It also says it used Dolby Surround Sound, which I dont think its similar to Dolby Headphone. I want to think it may be similar to a ProLogic algorithm but dont quote me on that...
> 
> ...




Those will work, but they are 2.4. Might cause some interference. 

Again, I was under the impression, it would be better to build your own headset, by buying each piece separately. I just need something that will hook wirelessly to an amp of some kind.


----------



## bavinck

OK, gotta ask. What's HEK?


----------



## joshuaejones1

Are there any other wireless mixamps like the Astro 5.8s? That looks like what I need.


----------



## conquerator2

bavinck said:


> OK, gotta ask. What's HEK?




Hifiman HE1000


----------



## A7Legit

Hi guys, I'm a new poster here but I've been reading threads and posts from this forum since late 2013, igreat place and well informed opinionated community, many great threads have been read.

I'm a console gamer and light PC gamer (more console than PC), I'm after a AMP/DAC for gaming and mainly first person shooters but I made some silly buying decisions and purchased myself an Astro Mixamp and Audio Technica ADG1 headset, now whilst I don't think the ADG1 was a bad choice, I could have saved money is why I thought it was a bad decision overall.

To stop wasting people's time I'm after a new pair of headphones, I've been eyeing the Philips Fidelio X2 and I'm stuck on the AMP/DAC to buy. The main purpose will be for gaming (SPDIF input) but I wouldn't mind also enjoying some use for movies, what makes me different from most is I don't intend to purchase any equipment for music use (please go easy ) so I'm after any/every sound advantage a solid AMP/DAC can provide. 

I was hoping with the Fidelio X2's that I could gain great positional audio, ability to hear enemy footsteps (possibly at further distances) as well as enemy call outs and even enemies reloading their weapons. Sadly with my Astro Mixamp and ADG1 combo I just cannot hear most of these things...

Anyone who'd be kind enough to share some of experiences may want to know my budget and the thing is I'm from Australia where prices vary as from those inside the US/Canada.
I've been eyeing the following AMP/DAC solutions which offer SPDIF input as well as the ability to drive a number of different headphones, in case in time I decide I want to change headphones.

Fostex HP-A4, Aune X1S, Aune S16, Matrix Quattro II (waiting on reviews) and outside my budget but would spend if it made my gaming total bliss, the Fostex A8C.

Now I'm more than aware there are marginal prices differences between all mentioned models but what I donot truly know is if for what I want, if the lower end/cheaper models are more than enough for me.

I already have a Blue Yeti microphone which will work with both my Xbox One and Playstation 4 consoles, so I thought the Fidelio X2 (for now) would pair nicely, just stuck with the AMP/DAC solution...

Any advice or different suggestions would be sincerely appreciated as I would like far more well informed people to weigh in their opinions.

Thanks for your time,
A7.


----------



## joshuaejones1

Ok well after reading and studying this guide , I believe this will be my best setup for gaming:

AD700 headset. Maybe a new AD700x. 
A DX mic clip. 
And an Astro Mixamp 5.8 wireless. 
Xbox one stereo headset adapter. 


Now am I missing anything? I assume the Mixamp will hook to the Xbox one. Then the other receiver will hook (wired) to the controller via headset adapter and to the mic. 

Do I need some sort of Y splitter or does the Mixamp have an output for the mic and controller?


----------



## PurpleAngel

a7legit said:


> Hi guys, I'm a new poster here but I've been reading threads and posts from this forum since late 2013, igreat place and well informed opinionated community, many great threads have been read.
> I'm a console gamer and light PC gamer (more console than PC), I'm after a AMP/DAC for gaming and mainly first person shooters but I made some silly buying decisions and purchased myself an Astro Mix-amp and Audio Technica ADG1 headset, now whilst I don't think the ADG1 was a bad choice, I could have saved money is why I thought it was a bad decision overall.





> To stop wasting people's time I'm after a new pair of headphones, I've been eyeing the Philips Fidelio X2 and I'm stuck on the AMP/DAC to buy. The main purpose will be for gaming (S/PDIF input) but I wouldn't mind also enjoying some use for movies, what makes me different from most is I don't intend to purchase any equipment for music use (please go easy
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you enabled Dolby in the audio settings of your gaming consoles.
 The gaming consoles need to be set to 5.1 (6-channel) audio.
 Also DDL (Dolby Digital Live) is need to be able to compress the 6-channels of audio, to be able to pass thru the Mix-amps optical cable.
 Assuming when you enable "Dolby" in the gaming consoles audio settings, DDL is automatically enabled.
  
 Have you updated the gaming consoles to their latest firmware?
  
 Really surprised you find the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1 headset not do doing the job for you.
 I believe it based on the ATH-AD900X headphone, which seem liked by FPS gamers.
  
 Any chance their might be something wrong with the Astro Mix-amp?


----------



## lenroot77

If anyone is looking for a PC 360 that is in great shape please send me a pm.


----------



## joshuaejones1

joshuaejones1 said:


> Ok well after reading and studying this guide , I believe this will be my best setup for gaming:
> 
> AD700 headset. Maybe a new AD700x.
> A DX mic clip.
> ...




I don't think I need the headset or amp hooked to thit controller at all. I looked at some pics and the mixamp has 3.5mm outputs for headphones and a controller. I'm hoping the mic connects to the controller output. 

Can anybody confirm?


----------



## octiceps

purpleangel said:


> Really surprised you find the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1 headset not do doing the job for you.
> I believe it based on the ATH-AD900X headphone, which seem liked by FPS gamers.




ADG1 is the AD700x


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

joshuaejones1 said:


> I don't think I need the headset or amp hooked to thit controller at all. I looked at some pics and the mixamp has 3.5mm outputs for headphones and a controller. I'm hoping the mic connects to the controller output.
> 
> Can anybody confirm?




No, the mic connects to the same output as the headphones on the Mixamp. The Mixamp SHOULD come with a Y cable that has an audio and a mic input which then joins into one plug that goes into the Mixamp. The controller input on the Mixamp is for the cable that goes between the Mixamp and the console's controller IF you're using a Microsoft system, or if you're using the Mixamp 5.8 which doesn't have usb chat without a special cable. If using the 5.8 and don't have that special chat cable, you'll need to buy a Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable that will go from the Mixamp's controller out to the PS4 controller's headphone jack. Making sure that the PS4's setting is set to chat audio only for the Mic (because game audio will be sent through the spdif/optical)


----------



## joshuaejones1

mad lust envy said:


> No, the mic connects to the same output as the headphones on the Mixamp. The Mixamp SHOULD come with a Y cable that has an audio and a mic input which then joins into one plug that goes into the Mixamp. The controller input on the Mixamp is for the cable that goes between the Mixamp and the console's controller IF you're using a Microsoft system, or if you're using the Mixamp 5.8 which doesn't have usb chat without a special cable. If using the 5.8 and don't have that special chat cable, you'll need to buy a Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable that will go from the Mixamp's controller out to the PS4 controller's headphone jack. Making sure that the PS4's setting is set to chat audio only for the Mic (because game audio will be sent through the spdif/optical)




This is for the Xbox one. I need a PS4 chat cable?

I bought the mixamp off of eBay so I doubt it comes with the Y cable. 

I'm really confused about the PS4 references. 

I'll buy a Y cable though.


----------



## joshuaejones1

Is the correct RX for the mixamp? It looks like it takes regular batteries.


----------



## A7Legit

purpleangel said:


> Have you enabled Dolby in the audio settings of your gaming consoles.
> The gaming consoles need to be set to 5.1 (6-channel) audio.
> Also DDL (Dolby Digital Live) is need to be able to compress the 6-channels of audio, to be able to pass thru the Mix-amps optical cable.
> Assuming when you enable "Dolby" in the gaming consoles audio settings, DDL is automatically enabled.
> ...




Thank you for the reply, I've always done what you've suggested, I believe the issues I face are because of the impedance dampening from the Mixamp and ADG1 headset, the Mixamp isn't doing the ADG1 any favors sadly.

As mentioned already also, the ADG1 is based off of the ATH-AD700x with a mic built in.

I'm really looking to improve my listening experience for both games and movies but because of my options and various pricing differences do not know if expensive = better or what offers more bang for buck from the options I mentioned in my previous post earlier...


----------



## Evshrug

saad abdul aziz said:


> dont want speakers I want the best headphone I can get with sound stage atleast equal to the hd800 because i know in other departments it beats it but i also want my gaming to be at par with the hd 800 crazy performance




MrSpeakers is a brand name, ironically they just make planar-magnetic headphones. I got to listen to music with the Ether this weekend, and it's REALLY clean and even. I also got to hear the HE1000 and HD800 here at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest this weekend... And WHOO BOY all those summit-fi headphones sound amazing on the setups here. Unfortunately, I can only demo music, no live gaming with surround here.

I would suspect they would ALL be great gamers, but that's all just based on hearing attributes that worked well with surround processing in the past. By the way, the just announced HiFiman Edition X is most of the way towards an HE1000, and should be closer to the price of an HD800. Dr Fang didn't have a price yet; it seems like he's been listening to people telling him to price the Edition X HIGHER than the HD800 to position it as a "better headphone" by price perception. Is it better? Does the headphone industry need to climb in price? That's all opinion, but it was interesting that Dr. Fang's stated position on the Edition X costing more than an HD800 comes from the belief that the HD800 and other summit-fi headphones need very high-end amps and DACs to get the intended sound, while the Edition X is very efficient and linear to drive and will sound good with whatever detail level of DAC you want to feed it with. That's not a bad goal, and (in meet conditions) the edition X did sound quite nice unassisted straight into my iPhone 5S.

There was something magical about an HD800 (with $400 headphone cables and a little felt to keep the treble "just" on this side of too harsh) + Cavalli Audio Liquid Carbon + Audio GD DAC19, its sticking in my head and I want to hear that "Affordable High-Fi" setup again before I leave. The Ether (by MrSpeakers) open headphone was also really good and really transparent, but despite that transparency meaning it took on the character of the amp/DAC I never felt like I had to be picky to get great sound.

ToDo tomorrow: load a headphone surround video from YouTube, test positional imaging capabilities of the HD800, Ether, Ether C, HE1000, Edition X, Beyerdynamic T1 version 2, and wth I'll try to pipe it through that amazing $8,000 Fostex tube amp with the TH900 again!

Edit: Sadly, these all will be financially out of reach at my current job for about a year.


----------



## Evshrug

A7legit,
Really don't know what to tell you man... I owned an AD700 for three years, it definitely can image positional audio very well. I used it with a Creative Recon3D (review in my signature) which uses a different surround algorithm than Dolby Headphone (DH), but the DH in your Mixamp is also very distinct.

Maybe you could pick out little details better with a creative product because there's less reverb with SBX vs DH, and frankly the Mixamp's amp is pretty bottom-of-the-bin and isn't as clean as a $120+ headphone amp, BUT it's never super easy to track footprints and reloads in the heat of battle unless someone's relatively close or sprinting within 10-15 feet. You could try Scout Mode on the Creative DSPs (digital signal processors, that's what bestows surround upon our mortal stereo headphones), but I just use that as a "I'm tired and my ears are getting fatigued" option because you lose distance info when quiet and loud sounds are brought closer together, and it isn't pleasing on all headphones.

Overall, you've got decent ingredients with what you have, front should be easily distinct from back if you've got it set up right and you've gotten used to the sound. The AD700 and it's descendants can pick up detail, so maybe you'll have a cleaner experience with the Creative Sound Blaster X7 (which has a noticeably crisper DAC and cleaner/higher current amp), Creative E5 (which can't truly decode console surround but is like an X7 but JUST for headphones), the upcoming Creative G5 (Talked to Ryan from Creative at RMAF, it should decode console surround), or possibly Astro/Turtle Beach's new DSPs once they're released, but overall I'd caution you to manage expectations because games are not designed to let you hear EVERYTHING. From the AD-G1, upgrading headphones/amp/DAC will vacuum up the fuzzy edges of sounds, improve the sense of how distant something is, and add some bass excitement, but nothing can create sounds that aren't there (footsteps from further away, example typical assault rifle range).


JoshuaeJones1,
Do you also have the TX transmitter unit? That is the RX receiver half of the Mixamp 5.8.

We didn't know what console you had so Mad said what you need for Microsoft or Sony (Xbox or PlayStation). Microsoft charges a $35 per unit royalty fee to any device capable of wireless chat, so you'll probably need to buy cables to connect your Xbox controller to the RX. Honestly, I said "F* you M$" and bought a PS4 which is a little easier to set up, but you can buy an Xbox chat adapter and a cable, and I'd be interested to hear how *A7Legit* connects his Blue Microphones Yeti to his Xbox One! You can get a PC Mic/Audio to TRRS Y-splitter easily/cheaply from Amazon or Monoprice... Sourcing little things like that are the price you pay buying cheap used units.


----------



## Fegefeuer

saad abdul aziz said:


> dont want speakers I want the best headphone I can get with sound stage atleast equal to the hd800 because i know in other departments it beats it but i also want my gaming to be at par with the hd 800 crazy performance


 
  
 Forget Ether, T1, T1v2, HE-6, HE1000 (yes I head it) and all others except an Abyss in that case if you care about soundstage. I expected the HE1K to combine best of both worlds but it doesn't. It's too soft and while the bass performance is great the kickbass is softer than the HD 800. Soundstage is smaller and less sharp. 
  
 If you listen to the HD 800 when a string is plucked and then to the HE1000 you will notice how the latter lacks the physicality and the "rub". Hard to explain with my English but if you know instruments from real life they don't sound as soft as on the HE1K. 
  
 Just get a HD 800 and built upon it. I don't know what your budget is but for 3000€ I would get a HD 800 (can get it 1050 new), Schiit Gungnir Multibit (will order my own soon), Valhalla 2. 
 And then save up for a big amp someday. Ragnarok or one of the Eddie Curents.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> I'd be interested to hear how *A7Legit* connects his Blue Microphones Yeti to his Xbox One!


 
 Easy. Plug the Blue Yeti into an adapter such as this one:

 And magic inside the cable will take care of A/D conversion for you. Yup, this is exactly how it works.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

joshuaejones1 said:


> Is the correct RX for the mixamp? It looks like it takes regular batteries.




Make sure you buy the rechargeable battery pack. They sell plenty on ebay for it. Why is it a must? The RX eats batteries like nothing. DON'T buy batteries OR rechargeable batteries (it won't charge through USB unless it's a pack). Trust me. Buy a pack labelled for Mixamp 5.8 use. I regret selling my 5.8.

As for the cable, I was referring to PS4 use. I have no idea how to hook up chat for the XB1.


----------



## conquerator2

If you really only care about soundstage, then yes the HD800 is best.
But personally I wouldn't want it as my go-to headphone. Double that if I have to build specifically around it.
That's no good for me  Done it in the past but wouldn't wanna do it again. And I love my current gear :3
IMO.


----------



## joshuaejones1

evshrug said:


> A7legit,
> Really don't know what to tell you man... I owned an AD700 for three years, it definitely can image positional audio very well. I used it with a Creative Recon3D (review in my signature) which uses a different surround algorithm than Dolby Headphone (DH), but the DH in your Mixamp is also very distinct.
> 
> Maybe you could pick out little details better with a creative product because there's less reverb with SBX vs DH, and frankly the Mixamp's amp is pretty bottom-of-the-bin and isn't as clean as a $120+ headphone amp, BUT it's never super easy to track footprints and reloads in the heat of battle unless someone's relatively close or sprinting within 10-15 feet. You could try Scout Mode on the Creative DSPs (digital signal processors, that's what bestows surround upon our mortal stereo headphones), but I just use that as a "I'm tired and my ears are getting fatigued" option because you lose distance info when quiet and loud sounds are brought closer together, and it isn't pleasing on all headphones.
> ...




Yes I bought the TX and RX, but they are coming from separate sources. I have the stereo headset adapter for the Xbone controller, but I'm unsure if I'll even need it. 

If I run the Y splitter from the RX headphone output and one plugs into the headphones and the other to the DX mic, what would plug into the controller? If I did plug anything into the controller, there's no way to output it.

Now the headphones will be delivered before the mixamp is, so I think I can plug the headphones into the the stereo controller adapter and use my Kinect as a mic. It will just be stereo, but will probably sound much better.


----------



## joshuaejones1

mad lust envy said:


> Make sure you buy the rechargeable battery pack. They sell plenty on ebay for it. Why is it a must? The RX eats batteries like nothing. DON'T buy batteries OR rechargeable batteries (it won't charge through USB unless it's a pack). Trust me. Buy a pack labelled for Mixamp 5.8 use. I regret selling my 5.8.
> 
> As for the cable, I was referring to PS4 use. I have no idea how to hook up chat for the XB1.




I bought one of those batteries on EBay last night. What type of cable do I need to charge it? I'm unsure if the user RX I bought will come with one.


----------



## joshuaejones1

joshuaejones1 said:


> I bought one of those batteries on EBay last night. What type of cable do I need to charge it? I'm unsure if the user RX I bought will come with one.




Nevermind, I figured out what USB cable I needed. I just got one on Amazon.


----------



## joshuaejones1

Now that I think about it, I may not need the Y splitter at all. The headphones may plug straight into the RX and the mic will probably need to be plugged into the stereo headset adapter for chat.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Guys looking for a mic to put in my akg q701. 
Modmic v4 looks good. But giving 80 euros for a mic is too much. 
What about labtec mic? 
Is that so bad like I read?


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> Guys looking for a mic to put in my akg q701.
> Modmic v4 looks good. But giving 80 euros for a mic is too much.
> What about labtec mic?
> Is that so bad like I read?


 
 Where the hell did You come up with 80 euro? I bought mine for 67 dollars total (including shipping to Europe and two extra base clasps).


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> the upcoming Creative G5 (Talked to Ryan from Creative at RMAF, it should decode console surround)


 
 Hey Evshrug,

 I'm super curious about the G5 and was wondering if you had any more info on it. I've researched the heck out of it, but there really is only so much info online right now. My biggest question is this: Do you think it will be able to daisy chain (just like the MixAmp does) for voice chat at LAN events? I would much prefer this over the new MixAmp TR, but I have to be able to daisy chain with my teammates (either by all of us having the G5 - or best case scenario if I could daisy chain my G5 with their MixAmps). I know Astro's new MixAmp TR switched over to optical daisy chaining (used to just be 3.5mm connection) and I also know that the G5 has optical in as well as optical out - so maybe it's possible?

 And if you know anything else about it, then definitely fill me in! Thanks so much


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> MixAmp TR switched over to optical daisy chaining


 
 It's not optical, it's  mini firewire and I bet they did it so they could overcharge people on cabling.


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> It's not optical, it's  mini firewire and I bet they did it so they could overcharge people on cabling.


 
 Thanks for pointing that out - I don't know why my head instantly clung to the world optical when I heard the Astro rep says digital. Either way, I know that it's not backwards compatible now (obviously) so that means teams are going to have to upgrade every single mixamp if one person gets the new TR...


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> Thanks for pointing that out - I don't know why my head instantly clung to the world optical when I heard the Astro rep says digital. Either way, I know that it's not backwards compatible now (obviously) so that means teams are going to have to upgrade every single mixamp if one person gets the new TR...


 
 If lag-free party chat is what you guys want why not use a local vent/teamspeak server with all of the mixamps connected to a single PC via USB. Yes, it would require a giant-ass usb hub but could work and actually be cheaper than buying new mixamps for everyone.


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> If lag-free party chat is what you guys want why not use a local vent/teamspeak server with all of the mixamps connected to a single PC via USB. Yes, it would require a giant-ass usb hub but could work and actually be cheaper than buying new mixamps for everyone.


 
 We compete on consoles (also no internet at the venues to chat via online party while playing on local LAN) so we have to use a hardware solution. Most people have MixAmps but I really would prefer getting myself a G5. Not sure if I can daisy chain with other G5's or MixAmps, though.


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> We compete on consoles (also no internet at the venues to chat via online party chat and play on local LAN) so we have to use a hardware solution. Most people have MixAmps but I really would prefer getting myself a G5. Not sure if I can daisy chain with other G5's or MixAmps, though.


 
 In that case in-game chat is the only solution. Unless you can set up additional hardware at the venue in which case something like a Scarlett 18i8 (or a smaller variant) outputting to a splitter connected to all the aux ports might work for you


----------



## RedJohn456

@Mad Lust Envy Been loving the AKG K612 Pro with the Ps3 and E17. Recently got the hyper cloud core gaming headset, which is a rebrand of the Takstar Pro 80. 
  
 If you ever get a chance, give it a shot pretty good details wise


----------



## mindbomb

mad lust envy said:


> Well with headphones like the Q701, you give up the right to complain about its abilities if you paired with a budget amp. Seriously, the Q701 is a studio Headphone notoriously known to need some big boy amps to truly bring out it's best. The Magni is far from a big boy amp. The Q701s gaming potential is less strict hence why I don't typically adhere to the audiophile recommendation of big boy amps.
> 
> Not only this, but the Magni is slightly brighter than neutral which doesn't do those headphones any scaling favors, and improper synergy.
> 
> Again, for gaming it's fine, for serious listening, no. It's essentially a glorified volume booster for aiding stuff like the Mixamps, that's about it.


 
 I feel a magni 2 would be fine. The main thing to watch out for is power at low impedance, and it's capable of like over 1 watt at 32 ohms, beating both the xonar essence stx and o2 amp, but I would say both those are fine too.


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> In that case in-game chat is the only solution. Unless you can set up additional hardware at the venue in which case something like a Scarlett 18i8 (or a smaller variant) outputting to a splitter connected to all the aux ports might work for you


 
 The game chat would be a great solution, but unfortunately doesn't help us out in game modes that are non-respawn (S&D). The Scarlett is just too expensive/bulky of a solution for me. That's why I'm hoping the G5 will be able to daisy chain - really really hoping...


----------



## PurpleAngel

a7legit said:


> Thank you for the reply, I've always done what you've suggested, I believe the issues I face are because of the impedance dampening from the Mix-amp and ADG1 headset, the Mix-amp isn't doing the ADG1 any favors sadly.
> As mentioned already also, the ADG1 is based off of the ATH-AD700X with a mic built in.
> I'm really looking to improve my listening experience for both games and movies but because of my options and various pricing differences do not know if expensive = better or what offers more bang for buck from the options I mentioned in my previous post earlier...


 
  
 I would assume the Philips Fidelio X2 would offer improve audio quality, over the ADG1 (AD700X), but I would be surprised if it offered any better gaming surround sound (best guess).
 The ADG1 is 38-Ohms and the Fidelio X2 is only 30-Ohms, so any impedance issues that the ADG1 has should also happen with the Fidelio X2 (still best guess).
  
 Have you tried the ADG1 with a portable audio player, see if that improve the audio quality, as chances are the portable audio player would have less impedance issues with the ADG1 headphones, then whatever impedance issue might be caused with the Mix-amp. 
 I'm just surprised that your having issues with the ADG1/Mix-amp combo, there may indeed be an impedance issue, just my brain is confused by it.


----------



## xela3

Back again, Im about to pull the trigger on some X2's but Ive been reading that the sound stage just isint all that great, Ill be switching from the hd558 since I want a more fun and immersive headphone for gaming, but is stiill good for competitive games like csgo and yes even cod. I just want to hear the opinions of those here about the sound stage part.


----------



## PurpleAngel

xela3 said:


> Back again, Im about to pull the trigger on some X2's but Ive been reading that the sound stage just isint all that great, Ill be switching from the hd558 since I want a more fun and immersive headphone for gaming, but is stiill good for competitive games like csgo and yes even cod. I just want to hear the opinions of those here about the sound stage part.


 
  
 What DAC or amp or sound card do you use with the HD558?


----------



## odib

Hey guys,
  
 I heard that the new Mixamp Pro TR has streaming out (which is encoded with dolby headphones) via USB. I was wondering if anyone was planning on purchasing it, if they could test if they could connect the Mixamp to an external DAC via USB?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindbomb said:


> I feel a magni 2 would be fine. The main thing to watch out for is power at low impedance, and it's capable of like over 1 watt at 32 ohms, beating both the xonar essence stx and o2 amp, but I would say both those are fine too.




The Q701 is not 32ohm, and the Magnis lose a lot of potential as you climb the impedance ladder. The Q701 is one of those headphones that people love to feed a lot of power, which at their 60-ish impedance the Magnis don't provide. It needs a big boy amp to truly shine. I'm usually someone who doesn't belioeve in scaling as much as the next person, but from personal tests, those AKG drivers are one of the very few headphones that do noticeably improve with better gear. Magnis are not enough. They may be good ENOUGH, but not up to their true levels.


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> Back again, Im about to pull the trigger on some X2's but Ive been reading that the sound stage just isint all that great, Ill be switching from the hd558 since I want a more fun and immersive headphone for gaming, but is stiill good for competitive games like csgo and yes even cod. I just want to hear the opinions of those here about the sound stage part.




Lol don't read too much or else you are going to believe everything they tell you. From my experience when I tried the HD598 which is similar to the HD558 is that it has really good soundstage and focused a lot on the mid's, I like mid's lol. But comparing soundstage with soundstage, the X2 falls behind by just a bit, I could tell the difference but in no way did it actually affect immersion. 

I feel like the X2 still has pretty good imaging for the type of sound signature it offers. You won't lose immersion at all if that is what you are looking for and you won't lose imaging either while still having that bass from explosions and stuff.

But if you really need that competitive edge, just stick with the HD558 or get an HD598 or an AKG K612, but you will lose the immersion since the bass is reduced and the mid's are more noticeable while giving an airy sound.

All grounder for immersion and still give you good positional audio, X2 is the go to headphone.

Just FYI, don't expect the headphones to make you a better game or increase your KD by a lot lol. Your situational awareness will improve and maybe you will save yourself from a death or 2 or get 3 more kills but just enjoy the sound because it makes gaming so much better.

Heck, I can own in a BF4 server without even using sound


----------



## xela3

rudyae86 said:


> Lol don't read too much or else you are going to believe everything they tell you. From my experience when I tried the HD598 which is similar to the HD558 is that it has really good soundstage and focused a lot on the mid's, I like mid's lol. But comparing soundstage with soundstage, the X2 falls behind by just a bit, I could tell the difference but in no way did it actually affect immersion.
> 
> I feel like the X2 still has pretty good imaging for the type of sound signature it offers. You won't lose immersion at all if that is what you are looking for and you won't lose imaging either while still having that bass from explosions and stuff.
> 
> ...




I agree completely I just need the soundstage to be good enough to be able to discern that sounds are clearly coming from a particular direction or angle like the 558 I'm already a LEM in cs go so it's not like I look to headphones to make me better but more just assist me. I was looking at the x2s immersion for fallout 4 and Star Wars battlefront and other rpg games but if it was good for competitive to I wouldn't need to switch between it and the 558.


----------



## rudyae86

xela3 said:


> I agree completely I just need the soundstage to be good enough to be able to discern that sounds are clearly coming from a particular direction or angle like the 558 I'm already a LEM in cs go so it's not like I look to headphones to make me better but more just assist me. I was looking at the x2s immersion for fallout 4 and Star Wars battlefront and other rpg games but if it was good for competitive to I wouldn't need to switch between it and the 558.




Trust me, the X2 is an awesome headphone. I'm using my X2 with an Asus Sonar DG with Uni drivers and running optical out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and. Cayin C5 portable AMP and the sound is awesome! I'll be getting the O2 from masssdrop, hopefully next week and see how that matches up with my set up. My Fiio E11 is now abandoned lol


----------



## xela3

rudyae86 said:


> Trust me, the X2 is an awesome headphone. I'm using my X2 with an Asus Sonar DG with Uni drivers and running optical out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and. Cayin C5 portable AMP and the sound is awesome! I'll be getting the O2 from masssdrop, hopefully next week and see how that matches up with my set up. My Fiio E11 is now abandoned lol




I'll be running through the newer astro mixamp pro since I can get audio from my pc and consoles at the same time since it's a Low ohm headphone I assume that'll be alright.


----------



## Darkangelpt

xela3 said:


> I'll be running through the newer astro mixamp pro since I can get audio from my pc and consoles at the same time since it's a Low ohm headphone I assume that'll be alright.




I'm really interested in the new mixamp pro tr. 
But since my mixamp pro is barely new. 
I would have 2 mixamp. 
Do you have a older mixamp? Can you compare when you get yours.?


----------



## martin vegas

Anyone else having problems with their ps4 controllers not charging anymore?


----------



## xela3

darkangelpt said:


> I'm really interested in the new mixamp pro tr.
> But since my mixamp pro is barely new.
> I would have 2 mixamp.
> Do you have a older mixamp? Can you compare when you get yours.?


 
 I don't have the older one anymore but I had it about a month ago so when I get it this weekend/next week Ill do a rough comparision


----------



## mindbomb

mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 is not 32ohm, and the Magnis lose a lot of potential as you climb the impedance ladder. The Q701 is one of those headphones that people love to feed a lot of power, which at their 60-ish impedance the Magnis don't provide. It needs a big boy amp to truly shine. I'm usually someone who doesn't belioeve in scaling as much as the next person, but from personal tests, those AKG drivers are one of the very few headphones that do noticeably improve with better gear. Magnis are not enough. They may be good ENOUGH, but not up to their true levels.


 
 The thing that sets those AKGs apart from most dynamic headphones is the high amount of current it uses. Max power at a low impedance like 32 ohms is a good measure of how much current an amp can produce.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

martin vegas said:


> Anyone else having problems with their ps4 controllers not charging anymore?




That's what happens when the world can't get over the stupad as all hell micro usb standard. I absolutely hate everything about it and want it to die NOW. The ports go bad, the cables go bad, it's a damn nightmare.

Type C can't come soon enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindbomb said:


> The thing that sets those AKGs apart from most dynamic headphones is the high amount of current it uses. Max power at a low impedance like 32 ohms is a good measure of how much current an amp can produce.




Which the Magni can't provide for the AKGs. Believe it or not, people expect over a watt or TWO for the AKGs. Sure, the Magni pulls over a watt at 32ohm, but drops off considerably at the AKG's impedance.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> That's what happens when the world can't get over the stupad as all hell micro usb standard. I absolutely hate everything about it and want it to die NOW. The ports go bad, the cables go bad, it's a damn nightmare.
> 
> Type C can't come soon enough.


 
 I'm not a fan of type c either. They look like they're just as prone to breaking like micro usb. I really hate to admit this but the lightning connector just might be the perfect connector.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I feel type C will mitigate some of the ridiculousness of the micro usb shenanigans though. For one, trying to insert in the cables in darkness, like for example, when using your phone for a minute and then plugging it back in the middle of the night. Reversible cables should've been a standard ages ago.

Whomever thought micro usb was a better idea than mini usb needs to be fired. Yes, let's make the cables 1000x more prone to breakage. I don't think I've had ONE mini usb device that has ever broken on me, input or cable. Older Fiio stuff, Mixamps, PS3 controllers, etc. None.

Micro USB? Nearly every single phone I've owned stopped charging at some point, or constantly loss of connection/charge, or just spending a needless amount of money trying to find micro usb cables that wouldn't break after the first few weeks.

I'm really, really a vocal hater of Micro USB. It is the devil's connection.

Right now, I'm stuck with a half working Nexus 6 9I stepped on it a few months ago in the middle of the night), as I'm waiting for type C phones to come to market. I want the Nexus 6P, but then I found out carriers won't be selling it, and since I have T-Mobile Jump (which allows me to change phones as much as 3 times a year)... I don't even know what to upgrade to. I told myself the Nexus 6 was the last phone I would get with Micro USB. Also, no way in hell I'll ever buy Apple, even though I love their connector.


----------



## calpis

Inductive/wireless charging was one of the main reasons why I decided on the S6. I loved it when I had my Palm Pre and missed it tremendously when I had to upgrade and then upgrade again to another phone that didn't have wireless charging. The only time I ever need to plug in my S6 is file transferring and when I need that quick charge when I knock my phone off the charging stand when I'm asleep.
  
 Still despise touch wiz tho. Too lazy to root.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> That's what happens when the world can't get over the stupad as all hell micro usb standard. I absolutely hate everything about it and want it to die NOW. The ports go bad, the cables go bad, it's a damn nightmare.
> 
> Type C can't come soon enough.




Preach it, brother!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was desperately hoping the Note 5 would have Type C, but nope. They gave in to the stupid people in the world that can't let a bad thing die.

Though I absolutely can't stand rear facing speakers. that's one thing I love about the Nexus 6. Front facing STEREO speakers. No need to cup my hands behind the phone like an idiot to hear things properly. Can't wear headphones all the time.


----------



## mukumi

I saw the DSS2 at 29£ on amazon.co.uk so I thought that I would give it a try. Then I noticed that it needed a a Dolby Signal to be usable so I've thrown in a Asus Xonar U3 (my Sound Blaster X-fi HD does not handle Dolby Live). I've also picked a quality optical cable since it looks like the one with the DSS2 is really bad.
 I'll use it with my Beyer COP. My only concern is the messup that windows could made with too many sound card but let's wait and see. :s


----------



## Blze001

mad lust envy said:


> I was desperately hoping the Note 5 would have Type C, but nope. They gave in to the stupid people in the world that can't let a bad thing die.
> 
> Though I absolutely can't stand rear facing speakers. that's one thing I love about the Nexus 6. Front facing STEREO speakers. No need to cup my hands behind the phone like an idiot to hear things properly. Can't wear headphones all the time.


 
  
 This is an issue I'm struggling with regarding a new phones: do I go with the Moto X Pure that has SD card support but micro-USB, or do I go with the Nexus 5X that has USB C but no SD card. I think I'd fill up 8GB pretty darn quickly. Also, what was Google thinking not having an SD slot on either Nexus?
  
 And yes, these are really the only options I have because I'm a dummy who uses Verizon and they're too cheap to dump the ancient CDMA network.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> I feel type C will mitigate some of the ridiculousness of the micro usb shenanigans though. For one, trying to insert in the cables in darkness, like for example, when using your phone for a minute and then plugging it back in the middle of the night. Reversible cables should've been a standard ages ago.
> 
> Whomever thought micro usb was a better idea than mini usb needs to be fired. Yes, let's make the cables 1000x more prone to breakage. I don't think I've had ONE mini usb device that has ever broken on me, input or cable. Older Fiio stuff, Mixamps, PS3 controllers, etc. None.
> 
> ...




One+2

Is the only one I know with a type C connector.


----------



## meringo

dakanao said:


> Did anyone here game with the Nad Viso HP50?




I do! I used to use the AKG Q701 as my gaming headset, but really enjoy the bass extension of the NADs. Roomfeel is no gimmick.... certainly a more open sound in general, compared to other closed backs.

As some have mentioned, treble extension isn't going to be as good as open cans, but the NADs target the harmon curve which takes off that emphasis. It's my new ideal sound signature for music on top of the great gaming properties.


----------



## Yethal

mukumi said:


> I saw the DSS2 at 29£ on amazon.co.uk so I thought that I would give it a try. Then I noticed that it needed a a Dolby Signal to be usable so I've thrown in a Asus Xonar U3 (my Sound Blaster X-fi HD does not handle Dolby Live). I've also picked a quality optical cable since it looks like the one with the DSS2 is really bad.
> I'll use it with my Beyer COP. My only concern is the messup that windows could made with too many sound card but let's wait and see. :s


 
 Why on earth would you buy a console dedicated device for PC gaming? Just enable virtual surround in either Sound Blaster or Xonar control panels and be done with it.
  
 Important stuff: Sound BlasterX HS3 headset is now available in the Creative store. We can expect other BlasterX products (including highly-anticipated Sound Blaster G5) soon.


----------



## mukumi

yethal said:


> Why on earth would you buy a console dedicated device for PC gaming? Just enable virtual surround in either Sound Blaster or Xonar control panels and be done with it.
> 
> Important stuff: Sound BlasterX HS3 headset is now available in the Creative store. We can expect other BlasterX products (including highly-anticipated Sound Blaster G5) soon.


 
  
 Because as far as I know my X-Fi HD is recognized as a 2.0 system so it's an emulation of two channels to surround and I was not satisfied at all with the results.
  
 So I thought that I would pick Xonar U3 and DSS2 at the same time to reduce sending cost. If Xonar u3 alone is enough I'll send back the dss2.


----------



## Yethal

mukumi said:


> Because as far as I know my X-Fi HD is recognized as a 2.0 system so it's an emulation of two channels to surround and I was not satisfied at all with the results.
> 
> So I thought that I would pick Xonar U3 and DSS2 at the same time to reduce sending cost. If Xonar u3 alone is enough I'll send back the dss2.


 
 Xonar U3 is enough and afaik it has optical out integrated with the headphone out so it can be used together with a higher quality amp/dac


----------



## grownasssman

Received my Q701s my psb m4u1s and an x7 they all sound pretty good so far though the Q701s blow the m4u1s away but that's probably an open back thing. I'm hooking this ip to an Xbox one and have the chat running through the x7 but it's really low I have the line in turned all the way up but can still barely hear people does anybody have any tips on how I can fix this. Also when I have it plugged into my PC through usb there is a low hum I'm updating the firmware to see if that fixes it. Did anybody else have this problem?


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> The Q701 is not 32ohm, and the Magnis lose a lot of potential as you climb the impedance ladder. The Q701 is one of those headphones that people love to feed a lot of power, which at their 60-ish impedance the Magnis don't provide. It needs a big boy amp to truly shine. I'm usually someone who doesn't belioeve in scaling as much as the next person, but from personal tests, those AKG drivers are one of the very few headphones that do noticeably improve with better gear. Magnis are not enough. They may be good ENOUGH, but not up to their true levels.


 

 Just gotta tell you Mad...
 Heard the TH900 at Fostex's RMAF booth on both a transportable amp/DAC of theirs (a step above the Mixamp/FiiO E17 combo, not sure how it would stack up vs X7), and then the same TH900 on Fostex's super $8000 tube amp and some nice DAC which I missed the name of... OH YEAH can things scale UP! Listened to "Weird Fishes/Arpeggio," the scaling was DEFINITELY and easily obvious, it was much more lively and full bodied on the high-end system. Now I know how hard it is for the high-end guys to describe how things scale up, lol, but it was the goosebumps & chills moment of RMAF for me!


----------



## Evshrug

grownasssman said:


> Received my Q701s my psb m4u1s and an x7 they all sound pretty good so far though the Q701s blow the m4u1s away but that's probably an open back thing. I'm hooking this ip to an Xbox one and have the chat running through the x7 but it's really low I have the line in turned all the way up but can still barely hear people does anybody have any tips on how I can fix this. Also when I have it plugged into my PC through usb there is a low hum I'm updating the firmware to see if that fixes it. Did anybody else have this problem?


 

 I never heard hum on my Q701 + X7, but apparently firmware updates specifically have helped with some people's hum issues? FYI I have been lazy and am still running the first firmware on my X7.


----------



## grownasssman

evshrug said:


> I never heard hum on my Q701 + X7, but apparently firmware updates specifically have helped with some people's hum issues? FYI I have been lazy and am still running the first firmware on my X7.



Yeah the firmware update helped now I just have to figure out what I can do about the chat volume. I know tere is a simple solution but I can't think of it right now.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Already seeing a lot of people with the new mixamp pro tr. 
But not seen any sound quality comparison between older model and the tr. 
If any of you guys get the new ASTRO mixamp pro tr. Let us know. Hahaha


----------



## grownasssman

blze001 said:


> This is an issue I'm struggling with regarding a new phones: do I go with the Moto X Pure that has SD card support but micro-USB, or do I go with the Nexus 5X that has USB C but no SD card. I think I'd fill up 8GB pretty darn quickly. Also, what was Google thinking not having an SD slot on either Nexus?
> 
> And yes, these are really the only options I have because I'm a dummy who uses Verizon and they're too cheap to dump the ancient CDMA network.



LG v10 not on your list? It won't be out till next month but it looks awesome. I was on the fence to since I can't carry my flac files on a note 5 with onl 64gb of memory and I just wasn't that impressed with the new nexus phones luckily lg had my back lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yes, I don't do small phone screens. 5.5" is absolute minimum. My Nexus 6 is 6". Ideally something 5.7-6".I like the Note 5's form factor, as it's actually smaller than my old Note 2, despote having a bigger screen.


----------



## shuto77

meringo said:


> I do! I used to use the AKG Q701 as my gaming headset, but really enjoy the bass extension of the NADs. Roomfeel is no gimmick.... certainly a more open sound in general, compared to other closed backs.
> 
> As some have mentioned, treble extension isn't going to be as good as open cans, but the NADs target the harmon curve which takes off that emphasis. It's my new ideal sound signature for music on top of the great gaming properties.




I nearly picked up a pair of NADs (insert juvenile joke here) last year for all-around duty. 

Have you tried the Momentum 2.0 (wired) as well-- I'm curious how they stack up for gaming purposes.


----------



## mukumi

Does the Mixamp Pro needs an Optical inline to work correctly or is it a 5.1 dac itself?


----------



## Yethal

mukumi said:


> Does the Mixamp Pro needs an Optical inline to work correctly or is it a 5.1 dac itself?


 
 It is a 5.1 dac itself that needs optical inline to work.


----------



## joshuaejones1

So I got my RX and TX today for the Mixamp 5.8. Problem is they won't pair. Does anybody have any tips or recommendations?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you held down the power button on the Tx unit first, then hold down the power button on the RX? They should both be blinking, I believe.


----------



## joshuaejones1

mad lust envy said:


> Have you held down the power button on the Tx unit first, then hold down the power button on the RX? They should both be blinking, I believe.


 Yes they both are blinking. They're only supposed to blink white for a couple seconds and then they're supposed to pair. They're not pairing.


----------



## rudyae86

Im going to post this since the PC gaming thread is hardly active....well it is active but takes a while for someone to actually respond but here we go:
  
  So I got a question regarding my vmoda boom pro mic. Im using it with my X2 and Im using an Asus Xonar DG with optical out going to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and to my Cayin C5. Now, obviously the Vmoda mic uses a y splitter to seperate the Mic and Stereo inputs of which the Stereo input goes into the C5 and the Mic is connected to an extension 3.5mm cable to my Asus Xonar DG for Mic purposes.
  
 But.....for some reason, when the mic is connected to my Xonar DG, I can hear a buzz in my headphones....its noticeable when there is nothing playing through my headphones and everything else is on and a bit noticeable when I am playing something...
  
 However, when I disconnect the Mic from the Xonar DG, the buzz is gone. Any reason why this is happening or a fix I can do?
  
 I was thinking of getting a Snowball mic and call it a day but I dont want to spend another 50 bucks right now and I rather much prefer using my vmoda mic which does the job really well in terms of keeping it simple. TIA


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Im going to post this since the PC gaming thread is hardly active....well it is active but takes a while for someone to actually respond but here we go:
> 
> So I got a question regarding my vmoda boom pro mic. Im using it with my X2 and Im using an Asus Xonar DG with optical out going to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and to my Cayin C5. Now, obviously the Vmoda mic uses a y splitter to seperate the Mic and Stereo inputs of which the Stereo input goes into the C5 and the Mic is connected to an extension 3.5mm cable to my Asus Xonar DG for Mic purposes.
> 
> ...


 
 This ****:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAC-SNI-1-3-5-3-5-mm-Ground-Loop-Noise-Isolator-Works-for-3-5-MM-Applications-/181891992892?hash=item2a599b8d3c


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> This ****:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAC-SNI-1-3-5-3-5-mm-Ground-Loop-Noise-Isolator-Works-for-3-5-MM-Applications-/181891992892?hash=item2a599b8d3c


 
 I was guessing it has to do with grounding issues and that my friend, seems to be the solution....but dam I already have so many cables around lol but oh well. Thanks Yethal
  
 EDIT: Okay noob question....this would go to the mic or the stereo/audio cable? and if to the audio cable, will it have some sort of affect to the sound quality/signature?


----------



## grownasssman

I've got a question about the x7 and xbox one under settings I can change the optical out to stereo uncompressed or Bitstream out. Which one is better for use with the x7 and headphones


----------



## Fegefeuer

5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream of course
  
 SBX on the X7 ticked ON, between 67% (default) and 100. Maximum dynamic. 
  
 Everything else off. No bass, no crystallizer or whatever.


----------



## joshuaejones1

Ok so I'm going to try a wired DSS to my AD700s. Then does anybody know if the I plug in a standard Xbox one headset with chat adapter into the controller, if I can use that as the mic and just get my virtual surround through my headphones?

For the Xbox one.


----------



## raband

We need a "How to wire up your console to your device" FAQ/diagram
  
 The question comes up every 2nd page (not having a go at ^^ - would be posting the exact same question myself if I got a new console - I don't have the answers for him)
  
 A place with the answers (either on the front page, or linked to on it) would be a hell of a resource and of use to so many people that can get burnt, frustrated or just plain give up.


----------



## Blze001

raband said:


> We need a "How to wire up your console to your device" FAQ/diagram
> 
> The question comes up every 2nd page (not having a go at ^^ - would be posting the exact same question myself if I got a new console - I don't have the answers for him)
> 
> A place with the answers (either on the front page, or linked to on it) would be a hell of a resource and of use to so many people that can get burnt, frustrated or just plain give up.


 
  
 Step 1) Sell Filthy Peasant console.
 Step 2) Buy Glorious PC Master Gaming Race computer.
 Step 3) Get USB DAC for said Glorious PC Master Race computer.
 Step 4) Profit!!
  
^^For those of you who don't understand satire, that was satire^^


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> I was guessing it has to do with grounding issues and that my friend, seems to be the solution....but dam I already have so many cables around lol but oh well. Thanks Yethal
> 
> EDIT: Okay noob question....this would go to the mic or the stereo/audio cable? and if to the audio cable, will it have some sort of affect to the sound quality/signature?


 
 Probably the microphone. Wouldn't hurt to try both though.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I was desperately hoping the Note 5 would have Type C, but nope. They gave in to the stupid people in the world that can't let a bad thing die.
> 
> Though I absolutely can't stand rear facing speakers. that's one thing I love about the Nexus 6. Front facing STEREO speakers. No need to cup my hands behind the phone like an idiot to hear things properly. Can't wear headphones all the time.


 
  
 The Note 5 makes me mad for a wide variety of reasons, all adding up to one giant missed opportunity.
  
 USB Type-C would've enabled USB 3.0/3.1 data rates again, but without the unsightly microUSB 3.0 connector. It also would've allowed for video-out, probably DisplayPort and such in addition to MHL.
  
 But no, not only did they NOT step forward, they took out MHL, too! And the IR blaster! And I don't need to reiterate the microSD/removable battery setbacks as well. At least I can cross the Gear VR off the "things my Note 4 can do that the Note 5 can't" list.
  
 Samsung has lost a lot of trust among their customer base for all of that, and it'll be tough to earn it back. Maybe they can pull it off with the Note 6, but I'm not holding my breath.
  
 On a much brighter note, the SW:BF3 beta's now open to all for the weekend. I'll probably play the heck out of that while it's up. Anyone else here gonna be playing on PC?


----------



## Evshrug

raband said:


> We need a "How to wire up your console to your device" FAQ/diagram
> 
> The question comes up every 2nd page (not having a go at ^^ - would be posting the exact same question myself if I got a new console - I don't have the answers for him)
> 
> A place with the answers (either on the front page, or linked to on it) would be a hell of a resource and of use to so many people that can get burnt, frustrated or just plain give up.




I'm mostly done with a series of setup demo videos on YouTube. I'm going to make a playlist, and it seems like creative might send me new stuff so I can keep making videos as I get gear.

I have had a Turtle Beach DSS (DSS2 setup should be same), Mixamp 5.8, Recon3D, Yamaha ACR with Silent Cinema, and I need to record my X7 setup. I have a friend nearby with a wired Mixamp, maybe I can even do XBone with his? *Maybe I can even ask Astro to lend me the new Mixamp* to put in the setup playlist and review.





rudyae86 said:


> Im going to post this since the PC gaming thread is hardly active....well it is active but takes a while for someone to actually respond but here we go:
> *There's a reason for that, very few people enjoy doing IT work, even when paid! And PC is the most combobulated of all!*
> 
> 
> ...




Could be a grounding issue with either the DG or the Y-splitter cable. Is this issue new? Y-split cables can experience wear and shorting... Or maybe the DG port is bad and Yethal's grounding thing will work.


----------



## Change is Good

Are they sending you the G5?


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Are they sending you the G5?




I talked to Ryan at RMAF and learned a lot, and I do believe they will be sending a G5 so I can review it once it's released. They also hinted (teased!) about some future products... I don't have many details, the few I got I can't talk about, but let's just say it deals with surround and it's something besides the G5...

Can't say more than that!


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> On a much brighter note, the SW:BF3 beta's now open to all for the weekend. I'll probably play the heck out of that while it's up. Anyone else here gonna be playing on PC?




I am. I'm at work though 



evshrug said:


> Could be a grounding issue with either the DG or the Y-splitter cable. Is this issue new? Y-split cables can experience wear and shorting... Or maybe the DG port is bad and Yethal's grounding thing will work.




Well I use to hook up the vmoda Mic straight to the DG and had no problems. This only started recently when I got my Modi and Cayin C5 running optical out. I have read more about it and it seems it's a grounding issue. I ordered that part to reduce or get rid of the buzz so I'll test it out when it gets to my place.

And let's hope Creative gives us what we want from that G5......


----------



## Evshrug

Rudy,
The G5 is going to be a great solution for tons of people... Even if it's just an E5 with console surround, that'll be good (might be more), but there were hints of _another_ device that might particularly interest you!


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Rudy,
> The G5 is going to be a great solution for tons of people... Even if it's just an E5 with console surround, that'll be good (might be more), but there were hints of _another_ device that might particularly interest you!




.....(looks at wallet...)

I'm good to go! Lol

Can't wait to hear about this new device.

Creative stepping it up. At some given point they just knew they had to do it.

I kind of feel that, in some way, the X7 was a test. Not saying the X7 is bad, it has its place and does well for its price range and features.

But I'm guessing that based on the feedback creative got from the X7, they had to fill in the gaps in the low and mid tiers of their product line.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, right, it's their top of the line. Ryan said the E series was their attempt to go to basics and see what they could do musically and with better quality audio (the E1 wasn't too great, but pretty good with sensitive IEMs... Actually lower background noise than the E5 which is silent for everything else by my... 20? 16? Ohm CIEMs). They may have to rethink branding, but the X series was going to be gaming and they had a prototype X closed headset with mic at RMAF. X7 was supposed to be TOTL for all that, kinda the top for the E line too. So, they COULD call it the X5 instead of the G5... But products in development are always in flux.

This was Ryan, with his Guardians of the Galaxy android phone (ANDRIOD AAAAAAH!):


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Well, right, it's their top of the line. Ryan said the E series was their attempt to go to basics and see what they could do musically and with better quality audio (the E1 wasn't too great, but pretty good with sensitive IEMs... Actually lower background noise than the E5 which is silent for everything else by my... 20? 16? Ohm CIEMs). They may have to rethink branding, but the X series was going to be gaming and they had a prototype X closed headset with mic at RMAF. X7 was supposed to be TOTL for all that, kinda the top for the E line too. So, they COULD call it the X5 instead of the G5... But products in development are always in flux.
> 
> This was Ryan, with his Guardians of the Galaxy android phone (ANDRIOD AAAAAAH!):




Hmmm interesting. Though I must say that their new headset looks familiar to a headphone (takstar?)

And Logitech coming out with their G933 and G633 headsets could possibly be competition though non of them offer any VSS for consoles. DTSX is going to be available on them for PC only.

I'd like to try out DTSX sometime and see how it fares against DH and SBX.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Is there a specific release date for the G5? I thought is was dated for Nov. Not a ton of info for a product thats supposed to be released soon-ish.
 I mean, we don't even know if if will have an optical port!


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Well, right, it's their top of the line. Ryan said the E series was their attempt to go to basics and see what they could do musically and with better quality audio (the E1 wasn't too great, but pretty good with sensitive IEMs... Actually lower background noise than the E5 which is silent for everything else by my... 20? 16? Ohm CIEMs). They may have to rethink branding, but the X series was going to be gaming and they had a prototype X closed headset with mic at RMAF. X7 was supposed to be TOTL for all that, kinda the top for the E line too. So, they COULD call it the X5 instead of the G5... But products in development are always in flux.
> 
> This was Ryan, with his Guardians of the Galaxy android phone (ANDRIOD AAAAAAH!):




Hey, Ev, great stuff as always! 

I've read conflicting info on the G5. I originally heard it was essentially an E5 (which is by all accounts, a very nice $200 dac/amp all-in-one device), but with the functionality of a Mixamp. This would technically place this item ahead of the Mixamp (w/ a really nice, powerful amp), but a bit behind the X7,which might not be so bad, since many (myself excluded), find its features superfluous. 


Is this a fair statement, or will the G5 have significantly different components from the E5?


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> Is there a specific release date for the G5? I thought is was dated for Nov. Not a ton of info for a product thats supposed to be released soon-ish.
> I mean, we don't even know if if will have an optical port!


 
 We do. It has an optical port.


----------



## Sonikku13

Gaming and vacuum tubes. My question today relates to those two things.
  
 I am a video gamer that happens to listen to music, but I don't really care about how the music sounds, though I have noticed more detail in my music, and I love that. I just want a bigger soundstage and better imaging for soundwhoring in games.
  
 So, given my setup, an Aune T1 Mk.2, Sylvania 6922, and Audio-Technica AD900X, what should I do? I think the tube is the weak point at this time.


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Hey, Ev, great stuff as always!
> 
> I've read conflicting info on the G5. I originally heard it was essentially an E5 (which is by all accounts, a very nice $200 dac/amp all-in-one device), but with the functionality of a Mixamp. This would technically place this item ahead of the Mixamp (w/ a really nice, powerful amp), but a bit behind the X7,which might not be so bad, since many (myself excluded), find its features superfluous.
> 
> Is this a fair statement, or will the G5 have significantly different components from the E5?




Aw man, I wrote you this reply last night, which was getting quite in-depth, but I got stuck on a word and fell asleep. When I opened Safari again this morning, the page refreshed and I lost it all. Doh!

Basically, if the G5 is just an E5 with Dolby decoding, it's going to be great and sound better than a Mixamp. If they also provide a chat solution, it will be a Mixamp killer. They could use the same setup and accessories as the Recon3D USB, and that would almost completely solve it (except for XBone, you would get chat but still not have volume mixing).

If they add anything else, that will just be luxurious gravy, very desired but not essential. This could be DSP-baked-in line output or optical output, LAN-gaming wired chat, extra inputs for being connected to multiple consoles at once, a dimmable LED to indicate volume setting, support height-aware 
Encodings such as DTS X or Dolby Atmos, etc.

However, the E5 is already fairly awesome. Same primary amp chip as the X7 and some desktop amps (better than FiiO E17, same chip but different implementation than FiiO E09k and X7, different OpAmp implementation than X7) and surprisingly powerful and smooth for a portable, a nice DAC of the same technical level (different tuning) to equal or be better to taste than the Schiit M&M stack (warmer than the stack but just as detailed, have heard both but not side by side, maybe will soon), Bluetooth, and also has a mobile app for tweaking settings and audio. It also is great for music and using as a transport to connect something like my iPhone to something really high end... Second thing I did at RMAF was connect my iPhone + E5 optical out to a Yggy+Rag setup, the proper description of said setup would be "Amazeballs." My breathing just got a little heavier imagining gaming on a summit-fi setup, LOL!




sonikku13 said:


> I just want a bigger soundstage and better imaging for soundwhoring in games.
> 
> So, given my setup, an Aune T1 Mk.2, Sylvania 6922, and Audio-Technica AD900X, what should I do? I think the tube is the weak point at this time.



I'm running out of time, sorry. Check out compatible Amperex, Vokshod, Reflektor, and telefunken tubes, that would be 6922, 6DJ8, E88CC, and 6N23P.

After that, next upgrade for imaging and soundstage would be a better DAC.


----------



## rudyae86

I just have to say that the sound in Star Wars Battlefront is AMAZING!!!!
  
 I have the sound settings set to 5.1/7.1 and Wide (Which says it has Dolby Atmos but works for other 5.1 and 7.1 set ups as well....) but thats the correct option to get the full benefit of surround sound.
  
 I have been searching if Dolby Atmos is just for AV set ups or headphones as well and one person at overclock.net told me it seems to be for AV set ups only, since Dolby Atmos signal is sent through HDMI in Bitstream into an DA compatible AV like a 5.2.2 and then you get the whole benefit of the Dolby Atmos experience.
  
 Im broke and I dont think I can afford a 500 dollar AV unit and spend more money on speakers (and good speakers) which could bring the total to around 1k to 1.5k moonies...


----------



## Evshrug

Oh Rudy... Oooooooooh rudy... That thing I was hinting about? Juuuust you wait!

(I should talk to Warren less often)


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Oh Rudy... Oooooooooh rudy... That thing I was hinting about? Juuuust you wait!
> 
> (I should talk to Warren less often)


 

 Treasel in training?


----------



## Evshrug

This is gonna sound wrong, BUT yeah, the master Treasel is rubbing off on me.


----------



## Yethal

Yeah, so half of me is really curious about Evshrug's hinting, the other half though, knows that X7-induced buyer's regret is coming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I bought another X2...

Jaybird X2 Trolololol

We;ll see how it goes. Me and IEMs... 

Funny how I have two X2s though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Creative X10, HDMI device accepting PCM 7.1, DTS-HD MA/HR, Dolby Atmos 7.1. 799 Dollars.  
 SBX given up, partership with Dolby on Atmos and Atmos 3D Audio API. Future Frostbite titles to offer Atmos as well. 
  
  
 Conquerator, I'm ready to order it for you.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I bought another X2...
> 
> Jaybird X2 Trolololol
> 
> ...




How's it for gaming, eh? Eh?
On the bright side, no sweaty pads, it's super light, low sonic leakage and high isolation. I'd always take foam pads for comfort.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It has Comply foam tips which makes comfort an absolute non-issue. My gripe with IEMs is when they use silicone tips whic I certainly feel and dislike. The X2 comes with 3 pairs of both.

The one reason why I shy away from IEMs was also due to the absurd noise isolation. I know people see that as a good thing, but I prefer bad isolation so I can hear what's around me, hence why I love the Koss clip ons so much. So now I have to be extra mindful of my surroundings at work.

I haven't had much headtime, but it's super comfy, and really doesn't sound like a wireless. Haven't gotten a straight bead on it's sonic signature, but there is a clear difference between silicone and foam. Silicone is brighter and slightly more bassy, while foam tips sounds fuller and more balanced. I like both signatures so far. I'm sure wired IEMs can be had that sound as good or better for much cheaper, but I like its convenience of no wires. 


I can definitely say it sounds good. Nothing about it offends me and if you're into silicone tips, it's slightly more lively with it.

As for gaming, I'll only be able to test out stereo for now feeding the PS4 into my laptop for audio (In don't think the PS4 will pair, though I haven't tried yet).

I'm gonna eventually buy a low latency bluetooth transmitter with an AUX input so I can use a 3.5mm cable from the X7's headphone jack to the transmitter. They're like $35, so no biggie. That, and I'll be able to use that when I eventually sell off the X2 for a wireless Sennheiser or something.


----------



## Helvetica bold

fegefeuer said:


> Creative X10, HDMI device accepting PCM 7.1, DTS-HD MA/HR, Dolby Atmos 7.1. 799 Dollars.
> SBX given up, partership with Dolby on Atmos and Atmos 3D Audio API. Future Frostbite titles to offer Atmos as well.
> 
> 
> Conquerator, I'm ready to order it for you.




Wait is this real or a joke?!?
EDIT: hahah I get it, it's a joke!


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> As for gaming, I'll only be able to test out stereo for now feeding the PS4 into my laptop for audio (In don't think the PS4 will pair, though I haven't tried yet).
> 
> I'm gonna eventually buy a low latency bluetooth transmitter with an AUX input so I can use a 3.5mm cable from the X7's headphone jack to the transmitter. They're like $35, so no biggie. That, and I'll be able to use that when I eventually sell off the X2 for a wireless Sennheiser or something.


 
 There are bluetooth transmitters that are PS4-compatible including Creative's own BT-W2. Might make things easier


----------



## Helvetica bold

I can do 1 game. Okay


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Aw man, I wrote you this reply last night, which was getting quite in-depth, but I got stuck on a word and fell asleep. When I opened Safari again this morning, the page refreshed and I lost it all. Doh!
> 
> Basically, if the G5 is just an E5 with Dolby decoding, it's going to be great and sound better than a Mixamp. If they also provide a chat solution, it will be a Mixamp killer. They could use the same setup and accessories as the Recon3D USB, and that would almost completely solve it (except for XBone, you would get chat but still not have volume mixing).
> 
> ...




Thanks for the info! I nearly grabbed an SB E5 as a Dac/amp upgrade to my phone's audio, but I got a KILLER DEAL on a used Oppo HA-2 from a fellow Headfier for less than the E5's street price. The Oppo HA-2 is said to share the same DAC as the well-regarded Oppo HA, which goes for $1200. I'm happy with the purchase. 

Based on what you're saying, I have no intention of gaming on anything other than a Soundblaster product. Unless Oppo made an X7 competitor, that is.


----------



## Darius510

Anyone have any thoughts on the Logitech G633 or G933? They're talking big about the sound quality. For my purposes only a wireless headset w/ mic will do, right now the best I can find is the skullcandy PLYR2. It's not bad, but it's not very comfortable and doesn't sound as good as I'd like.


----------



## shuto77

darius510 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on the Logitech G633 or G933? They're talking big about the sound quality. For my purposes only a wireless headset w/ mic will do, right now the best I can find is the skullcandy PLYR2. It's not bad, but it's not very comfortable and doesn't sound as good as I'd like.




One day, we'll be able to get top-of-the-line wireless audio in an affordable package. We're not there yet. 

I've managed to simplify my setup, which I'm happy with, but I can totally see the appeal of being completely untethered.


----------



## Darius510

I'm not even concerned with affordability, these are already $150-200 and I'd pay up to $400-500 if there was actually something to buy in that price range. But wires are a non-starter for my setup and it needs to have a mic.
  
 The skullcandys really are decent sounding headphones outside of the build quality and comfort. The only other half decent wireless headset I've used in the past was an older Logitech headset - the sound quality was mediocre compared to the skullcandy, so I'm not sure what to make of their claims that the G633/933 is audiophile grade. I'll be happy enough if it sounds at least as good as what I already have.


----------



## xela3

darkangelpt said:


> I'm really interested in the new mixamp pro tr.
> But since my mixamp pro is barely new.
> I would have 2 mixamp.
> Do you have a older mixamp? Can you compare when you get yours.?


 
 So far not a huge difference in the TR mixamp that I notice, I heard that there are going to be new EQ modes for it but I havnt seen it yet.


----------



## shuto77

darius510 said:


> I'm not even concerned with affordability, these are already $150-200 and I'd pay up to $400-500 if there was actually something to buy in that price range. But wires are a non-starter for my setup and it needs to have a mic.
> 
> The skullcandys really are decent sounding headphones outside of the build quality and comfort. The only other half decent wireless headset I've used in the past was an older Logitech headset - the sound quality was mediocre compared to the skullcandy, so I'm not sure what to make of their claims that the G633/933 is audiophile grade. I'll be happy enough if it sounds at least as good as what I already have.




The wirecutter has some good info on wireless options: http://m.thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wireless-home-theater-headphones/. 

Here's the "Wall of Fame" link for wireless headphones from innerfidelity: 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame-wireless#ZeKxeAo42XjvHiQF.97. 

These are just some resources. I don't have any experience with wireless cans.


----------



## Darkangelpt

xela3 said:


> So far not a huge difference in the TR mixamp that I notice, I heard that there are going to be new EQ modes for it but I havnt seen it yet.




It should be the same. 
And there are eq for you to customize. 
Just download de software astro command center. 
I ordered just my xbox one to avoid the chat adapter. 
I'm playing star wars battlefront. 
In game they have the option to stereo 5.1 or 7.1.
Wich one should I use?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Some outdated choices there. I wish Tyll kept up with the new stuff. I can't say anything, I'm the same, lol.

So much pleather pads on wireless headphone choices. Ugh.

I literally have like 3 choices that are current, all Sennheiser:

Momentum On Ear wireless
RS185
Urbanite XL Wireless

The Momentum is out for being on ear AND noise cancelling. I hate ANC. It physically makes me ill.

RS185 is a good candidate but it's hella expensive, and the headband padding is pleather, which reminds me of the HD598. Irritates my scalp (I keep my hair extremely short). Why oh why do they have mismatching ear pads and headband padding? It's so weird.

The Urbanite XL wireless seems suspect on sound quality... and may be lacking in comfort.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> There are bluetooth transmitters that are PS4-compatible including Creative's own BT-W2. Might make things easier




Doesn't have an aux input like the others. May be good for the X7, but not good for wireless headphones that I'd like to use the X7 with for the SBX through the headphone jack into the transmitter.

http://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Reciever-Switchable/dp/B00LAZ6RTW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1444558354&sr=8-5&keywords=low+latency+bluetooth+transmitter


Whether it does or doesn't have chat function with the ps4 isn't an issue for me. I don't chat much, and if I'm home, that's what my Philips X2 is for, though I think my BoomPro is messing up.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Doesn't have an aux input like the others. May be good for the X7, but not good for wireless headphones that I'd like to use the X7 with for the SBX through the headphone jack into the transmitter.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Reciever-Switchable/dp/B00LAZ6RTW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1444558354&sr=8-5&keywords=low+latency+bluetooth+transmitter
> 
> ...


 
 Won't the sound quality suffer too much from digital>analog>digital>analog conversion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There is no alternative in getting surround sound for wireless headphones that don't have it built in. Pretty sure for the simple purpose of gaming/movie watrching, it won't be a horrible compromise. You forget, I owned the Mixamp 5.8 for years. The hiss on that is pretty noticeable, which I feel would be more harmful for SQ than the D to A to D convcersion.


----------



## Darius510

mad lust envy said:


> Some outdated choices there. I wish Tyll kept up with the new stuff. I can't say anything, I'm the same, lol.
> 
> So much pleather pads on wireless headphone choices. Ugh.
> 
> ...


 
  
 None of those mics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Most bluetooth headphones have a hidden mic built in including those. The RS185 is not likely though since it isn't Bluetooth.

If you're referring to a boommic, definitely not. Just a standard bluetooth quality mic, which is better than nothing.


----------



## Darius510

Even if I could do without the boom, Bluetooth is questionable sound quality as far as I understand it. 

I dunno why wireless isn't more popular? The transmission problem has been solved for a few years.


----------



## Yethal

darius510 said:


> Even if I could do without the boom, Bluetooth is questionable sound quality as far as I understand it.
> 
> I dunno why wireless isn't more popular? The transmission problem has been solved for a few years.


 
 Not really, there aren't any consumer uncompressed wireless audio transmission standards (wow, that's a lot of ephitets in one sentence)


----------



## Darius510

Well whatever the mixamp, skullcandy or Logitech headsets are doing you can barely tell its compressed.


----------



## Yethal

darius510 said:


> Well whatever the mixamp, skullcandy or Logitech headsets are doing you can barely tell its compressed.


 
 It doesn't matter as much in gaming, since the audio samples are low quality anyway, but it's very noticeable in music.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Oh Rudy... Oooooooooh rudy... That thing I was hinting about? Juuuust you wait!
> 
> (I should talk to Warren less often)




Oooh eemm gee... I can't believe I finally just got at the hinting lol.

If it's what I think it is....I think I need to change pants lol


----------



## Darius510

yethal said:


> It doesn't matter as much in gaming, since the audio samples are low quality anyway, but it's very noticeable in music.


 
  
 Are you *sure* it's lossy compressed and not lossless? Because the bitrates required even for uncompressed stereo 16/44 is no big deal for modern digital wireless.


----------



## Yethal

darius510 said:


> Are you *sure* it's lossy compressed and not lossless? Because the bitrates required even for uncompressed stereo 16/44 is no big deal for modern digital wireless.


 
 There is an aptx-lossless standard, however, once the compression bandwidth is exceeded it switches to lossy mode.


----------



## Darius510

yethal said:


> There is an aptx-lossless standard, however, once the compression bandwidth is exceeded it switches to lossy mode.


 
  
 But the headsets in question aren't using Bluetooth.


----------



## Yethal

darius510 said:


> But the headsets in question aren't using Bluetooth.


 
 Yup, but the only other lossless standard besides aptX-Lossless is Kleer which these headsets are not using either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If a wireless signal can give us at LEAST 192kbps mp3 like quality, I'm fine. Sure 320 would be ideal, but 192 is no slouch.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> If a wireless signal can give us at LEAST 192kbps mp3 like quality, I'm fine. Sure 320 would be ideal, but 192 is no slouch.




Hmmm... 

I'm sensitive to harshness/sibilance with 192 kb mp3s. For example, I find Amazon Music to be intolerable through my kindle fire HD, but Spotify Premium at 320kb sounds nice. 320kb is my baseline. (I think.) YMMV


----------



## shuto77

Just wanted to chime in after playing with the Stars Wars Battlefront beta on PS4 last night. Mind you, this is the first fps I've played on a current-gen platform. I was blown away by the audio and visual presentation. 

I'm a console-only player ATM, and this was my first "uncanny valley" moment in a game since the original Gears of War on the 360, back in 2006. 

Arkham Knight is a great looking game, but Battlefront seems even more impressive to me.


----------



## bavinck

Battlefront sure is beautiful, but the gun play is horribly unresponsive imo. It's a shame.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Star Wars Battle*field*. It was expected to have bad gunplay. DICE and good gunplay don't match.


----------



## Yethal

Halo Wars Battlefield. They took gun mechanics straight from Halo. How can there be no difference in accuracy between hip-firing and ads-ing?


----------



## bavinck

Coming from mainly destiny the gunplay in star wars is really frustrating. I like their maps though...


----------



## Yethal

I liked the gunplay in Rainbow Six beta though. Really satisfying to get a kill there.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Star Wars Battle*field*. It was expected to have bad gunplay. DICE and good gunplay don't match.


 

 They made BF2 on PC, so at least they did well once in their history.


----------



## Darius510

mad lust envy said:


> If a wireless signal can give us at LEAST 192kbps mp3 like quality, I'm fine. Sure 320 would be ideal, but 192 is no slouch.


 
  
 The PLYR has to be using at least that much, there aren't any noticeable compression artifacts. I'm not even convinced it's not lossless because it sounds that good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm quite impressed with whatever Skullcandy used for their PLYRs. May as well be wired to me.


----------



## lilboozy

Skullcandy SLYR vs A40s?


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Thanks for the info! I nearly grabbed an SB E5 as a Dac/amp upgrade to my phone's audio, but I got a KILLER DEAL on a used Oppo HA-2 from a fellow Headfier for less than the E5's street price. The Oppo HA-2 is said to share the same DAC as the well-regarded Oppo HA, which goes for $1200. I'm happy with the purchase.
> 
> Based on what you're saying, I have no intention of gaming on anything other than a Soundblaster product. Unless Oppo made an X7 competitor, that is.




Dude, lucky!!! I like some of Oppo's stuff more than others, but uniformly they make great gear of high value.

I don't think Oppo and Creative are playing in the same audio niches (gaming vs high-end), though there is some overlap near the middle. I personally don't see a reason they couldn't come out with some awesome collaboration, but that would be up to the companies.

At any rate, I'd be curious to A/B some surround gaming coming straight out of an E5/X7 versus a Creative DSP connected digitally to an Oppo DAC/Amp (at this point, that would be PC surround gaming), but a long chain like that usually ends up not being a long-term solution.




darius510 said:


> The PLYR has to be using at least that much, there aren't any noticeable compression artifacts. I'm not even convinced it's not lossless because it sounds that good.




Well, instead of Bluetooth, the high-end Sennheisers as well as the (cheaper DAC/Amp/and driver) Astro and Skullcandy gaming headsets and Mixamp 5.8 use radio frequency transmission, 2.4 gHz or 5gHz RF like in the older cordless house phones. That has more bandwidth than Bluetooth, but sometimes your microwave or possibly your wifi could interfere. Range, interference/crowded bandwidth, quality, battery efficiency... All these factors are balanced and balanced differently between each wireless tech.


----------



## Darius510

evshrug said:


> Well, instead of Bluetooth, the high-end Sennheisers as well as the (cheaper DAC/Amp/and driver) Astro and Skullcandy gaming headsets and Mixamp 5.8 use radio frequency transmission, 2.4 gHz or 5gHz RF like in the older cordless house phones. That has more bandwidth than Bluetooth, but sometimes your microwave or possibly your wifi could interfere. Range, interference/crowded bandwidth, quality, battery efficiency... All these factors are balanced and balanced differently between each wireless tech.


 
  
 Well I know they're using 2.4ghz, same band as wifi and bluetooth. The lowest wireless-N stream is like 65mbps and uncompressed 16/44 is what, like 1.4mbps? I mean it's just a trivial amount of bandwidth for modern wireless connections, I find it real hard to believe they still need to compress it.


----------



## rudyae86

bavinck said:


> Coming from mainly destiny the gunplay in star wars is really frustrating. I like their maps though...


 

 It was frustrating for me in the beginning....well it still is since trying to set the sensitivity for my mouse is kind of difficult (I'm playing on PC) and I can agree that sometimes the gun play is a bit too linear and feels more closely to a 2D shooter lol. But this is a beta and I am sure they will bring in many more fixes once its release and after its been released. I got use the the gun play after a while, especially since Im so use to BF4's gun play.
  
 I play competitively some times and when I do, I get the hang of the controls quite faster. My bro is the same way and figures out the best way to play. Heck, he taught me a things or two about certain abilities to do depending in the situation you are found in .
  
 I didnt expect anything else than just a casual game from this and is quite different from BF4 but SWBF does lack something and I am not quite sure what it is. I dont see myself playing this game everyday and might be more of a once or twice a week kind of game. Compared to the original Battlefront series, it was more fun to play those than this new Battlefront game.
  
 Anyways, here is a quick clip of me doing a headshot, no scope while he is mid air lol
  
 its towards the end of the clip of course....


----------



## Yethal

Cycler Rifle double-tapping for the win.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Cycler Rifle double-tapping for the win.




Double tapping? Care to explain?

At one point I was with that same score in the first 5 min of a game. Too easy lol


----------



## Eddga

Hey guys,
  
 I have the opportunity to buy a Astro Mixamp Pro 2012 for about 20 € which is in a technically proper condition.
 What do you think - are there any complaints to make about it? Or should I simply get it?
 I want to use it for gaming first and sometimes maybe also for listening music. But most of the time I only listen to music via my 5.1 speakers.
 Just got offered a pair of Sennheiser HD595 for about 45 € in addition to the mixamp. Both used but good condition. Seems the guy sells his old gaming gear.  What do you think about the deal. Is it worth it?
  
 Thanks in advance.
 Greetings,
 Eddga


----------



## Frooze

Does anyone here know how to configure the xonar dgx for good positinional audio mainly for cs:go?
  
 All I have is this(xonar settings):
 http://imgur.com/jUong3V
 http://imgur.com/RdzSWGv
  
 Which I tweaked form time to time, but I'm not really sure if this right.
  
 All I have is a short part of lvlcaps video where I don't know where he got his informations on:
https://youtu.be/yVme7rxdTLk?t=3m5s


----------



## raband

eddga said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Is it worth it?


 
  
 Definitely worth it.
  
 That setup would be 80-90% of any of the options on the front page.
  
 The 595's are maybe not extra cheap, but that bundle would be a perfect starting (or even ending) setup


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd buy that without a second thought. Wish I still had a Mixamp.


----------



## Sonikku13

Good news! I got the Aune T1 Mk.2 to work with the PS4.
  
 Which means, I'm gonna be playing FFXIV: HW on PS4 inevitably... with great sound, of course.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Double tapping? Care to explain?
> 
> At one point I was with that same score in the first 5 min of a game. Too easy lol


 
 Double tapping is a sniper technique used in games where the sniper rifle does not kill in one shot to the body. Basically You shoot the guy with a sniper rifle, quickly change weapons to a spam-fire low-accuracy weapon (such as a PDW or a high RPM pistol) and spam in the general direction of the enemy You just shot. Works like a charm in Battlefront due to the fact that all automatic weapons have the same base spread regardless of player's position. It's widely used in Battlefield as most snipers do not kill with one shot to the body past certain distance.


frooze said:


> Does anyone here know how to configure the xonar dgx for good positinional audio mainly for cs:go?
> 
> All I have is this(xonar settings):
> http://imgur.com/jUong3V
> ...


 
 CS:GO is one of the only games that actually sound better on Creative cards (on those that support ALchemy, at least) so You kinda shot yourself in the foot with that DGX. On the first screenshot:

Enable Dolby Headphone
Switch DH mode to DH2
Enable Virtual Speaker Shifter and set the speakers as far away from each other as possible.


----------



## Helvetica bold

No news on Turtle Beach's version of a mix amp? I forgot the name of their device but we've only seen the prototype. 
 At least we have the Sound Blaster G5 to look forward to. Still, with Battlefront it would be nice to have an option that
 virtualizes the height channels. I can only imagine how Battlefront would sound in Dolby Atmos. I saw the Martian in a 
 Dolby Cinema and it was amazing.


----------



## Frooze

yethal said:


> CS:GO is one of the only games that actually sound better on Creative cards (on those that support ALchemy, at least) so You kinda shot yourself in the foot with that DGX. On the first screenshot:
> 
> Enable Dolby Headphone
> Switch DH mode to DH2
> Enable Virtual Speaker Shifter and set the speakers as far away from each other as possible.


 
  
 Thank you for your advice. I mean really 
  
 So set it up like you told it and trying to do some matches now. 
 So wich creative card would you recommend for me then(for cs:go mainly),
 should I change at the effects tab the surroundnoise from "M" to "S" or keep it
 and would chaniging from headphones to FP headhpnes/2 FP headhpnes benefit me in any way?


----------



## Yethal

frooze said:


> Thank you for your advice. I mean really
> 
> So set it up like you told it and trying to do some matches now.
> So wich creative card would you recommend for me then(for cs:go mainly),
> ...


 
 Any card that supports Creative Alchemy will be fine.
  
 As for the other settings in the panelm just try experimenting with them until You're happy with the effect.


----------



## Frooze

yethal said:


> Any card that supports Creative Alchemy will be fine.
> 
> As for the other settings in the panelm just try experimenting with them until You're happy with the effect.


 
  
 K i'll do it.
 I enabled the speaker shifter and moved the speakers. Is it right like this, cause I'm not quite sure: http://imgur.com/kMPgJSc
  
 Would you bother helping me finding an alchemy card, cause google don't want to show me soundcards...


----------



## Yethal

frooze said:


> K i'll do it.
> I enabled the speaker shifter and moved the speakers. Is it right like this, cause I'm not quite sure: http://imgur.com/kMPgJSc
> 
> Would you bother helping me finding an alchemy card, cause google don't want to show me soundcards...


 
 Any from these lists will do:
 http://support.creative.com/kb/showarticle.aspx?sid=28967


----------



## mindbomb

frooze said:


> Does anyone here know how to configure the xonar dgx for good positinional audio mainly for cs:go?
> 
> All I have is this(xonar settings):
> http://imgur.com/jUong3V
> ...


 
  
 The main things are correct. You want 6 channels/48khz/headphone and dolby headphone selected. You also want the game configured as if you had 5.1 speakers. The dolby headphone room setting and the EQ settings are headphone specific, so people can't give you generic advice there.
  
 Someone mentioned alchemy. Asus does have it's own version of that, it's the GX button in the xonar control panel. CS does support hardware accelerated sound, which is very rare these days. To enable it, you have to enter in the "snd_legacy_surround 1" command into console and set up the game for 5.1 sound, with GX enabled in the asus control panel. The point of GX and alchemy is to allow hardware acceleration on modern operating systems.
  
 I'm not sure if there is a big difference in quality and positioning between hardware accelerated audio and software audio in CS GO. That's an interesting question. Someone should look into it.


----------



## pervysage

xela3 said:


> So far not a huge difference in the TR mixamp that I notice, I heard that there are going to be new EQ modes for it but I havnt seen it yet.




Is there any hiss in the new Mixamp TR? Was wondering if there were any improvements since they now advertise "all digital internals".


----------



## xela3

pervysage said:


> Is there any hiss in the new Mixamp TR? Was wondering if there were any improvements since they now advertise "all digital internals".


 
 Not that Ive noticed but i havnt had a lot of silent time to test that out.


----------



## pervysage

xela3 said:


> Not that Ive noticed but i havnt had a lot of silent time to test that out.




It's usually not noticeable until you go past about 70% on the volume dial. Don't necessarily need to have anything playing to test it out. Was just wondering if there is a quiet passage or nothing playing at all whether the mixamp gives off any hiss at high volume. All the previous Mixamps have had this inherent hiss from what I know (except maybe the wireless one). 

Thanks for your feedback, looking forward to hear your results after further testing!


----------



## xela3

pervysage said:


> It's usually not noticeable until you go past about 70% on the volume dial. Don't necessarily need to have anything playing to test it out. Was just wondering if there is a quiet passage or nothing playing at all whether the mixamp gives off any hiss at high volume. All the previous Mixamps have had this inherent hiss from what I know (except maybe the wireless one).
> 
> Thanks for your feedback, looking forward to hear your results after further testing!


 
 I usually dont go past 50%


----------



## Darkangelpt

I've tried just now. My mixamp pro tr xbox version. 
In the dashboard no background sound. 
With my sennheiser game one only like at 90% and up I could hear a hissing. Nothing special. 
With the akg q701 directly in the. Mixamp zero hissing. 
But when I had the schiit magni at high gain I can clearly hear a hissing.
So in my opinion is totally fine


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So spending more time with my Jaybird X2, I found that the smallest Comply foam tips work well for my ears in terms of comfort. Everything else makes my ears itchy/sore to the point of not wanting to use my Jaybird X2s whatsoever. So I'm glad I found a good pair of tips. Oddly enough I'm a pretty big guy, so I half expected to need the largest tips or at least the medium ones. However, I do feel like the tips wanna sort of shift a bit and slip out a little. Pet peeve, but quite minor, as it's just a feeling and doesn't actually slip out or alter the sound negatively. I'm sure my ears would work best with the medium tips, but I just can't handle the feeling in my ear after a while with them.

Silicone tips are an absolute no go. I can't stand the feeling.

So I received that Avantree bluetooth transmitter/receiver. No real latency from the X7 to it and then to my Jaybird X2. It does have a bit of grain to the sound which is not the best thing, but it's not a huge deal, and I prefer the benefit of getting SBX surround to my bluetooth than the grainless stereo quality. Certainly not ideal, but I'll make due.

X2, X2, X7.... lol.


----------



## Frooze

mindbomb said:


> The main things are correct. You want 6 channels/48khz/headphone and dolby headphone selected. You also want the game configured as if you had 5.1 speakers. The dolby headphone room setting and the EQ settings are headphone specific, so people can't give you generic advice there.
> 
> Someone mentioned alchemy. Asus does have it's own version of that, it's the GX button in the xonar control panel. CS does support hardware accelerated sound, which is very rare these days. To enable it, you have to enter in the "snd_legacy_surround 1" command into console and set up the game for 5.1 sound, with GX enabled in the asus control panel. The point of GX and alchemy is to allow hardware acceleration on modern operating systems.
> 
> I'm not sure if there is a big difference in quality and positioning between hardware accelerated audio and software audio in CS GO. That's an interesting question. Someone should look into it.


 
 Ok I changed it back from 8 to 6 channels, but if I press the "?" it says 8 cahnnels is for 3D games.
  
  
 I guess you have some clue about cs:go commands; would you mind looking some of my soundcommands over?
 (from my autoexe)
 snd_tensecondwarning_volume "1"
 snd_mapobjective_volume "1"
 snd_headphone_pan_exponent "2" //makes the sound dropoff more gradual, less chance of you not noticing the sound of someone planting or a lone footstep deep down on banana
 snd_headphone_pan_radial_weight "2"
 dsp_enhance_stereo "1"
 snd_legacy_surround "1"
 snd_pitchquality "1"


----------



## arandomguy

I've been using the KSC75 the last few years and I'm wondering what the minimum next level would be in terms of an upgrade?


----------



## Evshrug

arandomguy said:


> I've been using the KSC75 the last few years and I'm wondering what the minimum next level would be in terms of an upgrade?




Define minimum? Is that budget constrained? Or you want to make the smallest sound quality improvement? Generally, the KSC75 is quite good for the cost but it's also the lowest-costing of the recommended gaming headphones. As you keep "leveling up" you get more and more options at each "level." You would probably be pretty impressed with some JVC HA-RX700 and 900, especially with some of the easy mods, or after that perhaps some Sennheiser HD449, HD558, or HD598.


----------



## Evshrug

Creative Labs E5 review is up, has me really excited for the G5! Playstation 4 USB works perfect with recognizing the E5's mic for chat (gotta raise the gain a bit), sounds great out of the box but the mobile app allows for volume balance mixing and custom EQ. Add console surround decoding (Dolby or DTS at this stage of the game), maybe have the option to configure the analog line-out as a chat-out for LAN events, and the G5 will better the Mixamp in basically every way!

http://www.head-fi.org/products/sound-blaster-e5-24-bit-192khz-high-resolution-usb-dac-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14251


----------



## Fegefeuer

So is optical confirmed for the Gee 5?


----------



## mindbomb

frooze said:


> Ok I changed it back from 8 to 6 channels, but if I press the "?" it says 8 cahnnels is for 3D games.
> 
> 
> I guess you have some clue about cs:go commands; would you mind looking some of my soundcommands over?
> ...


 
 So that xonar setting actually controls the windows mixer setting for pcm audio. When the game is in legacy audio mode (snd_legacy_surround 1 with a surround sound setting in game), I don't think the game is even outputting pcm. So I don't think the setting actually applies in this case. But also, in general, the difference between 5.1 and 7.1 for dolby headphone purposes isn't that big imo. I imagine the snd_headphone settings only apply if the game is set up for headphone and the dsp_enhance stereo only applies to stereo, so it also shouldn't apply if you are set up for 5.1. I'm not sure if the other settings even work with legacy surround, they might not.


----------



## calpis

mad lust envy said:


> So spending more time with my Jaybird X2, I found that the smallest Comply foam tips work well for my ears in terms of comfort. Everything else makes my ears itchy/sore to the point of not wanting to use my Jaybird X2s whatsoever. So I'm glad I found a good pair of tips. Oddly enough I'm a pretty big guy, so I half expected to need the largest tips or at least the medium ones. However, I do feel like the tips wanna sort of shift a bit and slip out a little. Pet peeve, but quite minor, as it's just a feeling and doesn't actually slip out or alter the sound negatively. I'm sure my ears would work best with the medium tips, but I just can't handle the feeling in my ear after a while with them.
> 
> Silicone tips are an absolute no go. I can't stand the feeling.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
  X7 can transmit and receive over bluetooth?
  
 Also, getting in a nice pair of IEMs tomorrow. No one better steal it off my porch.


----------



## Helvetica bold

evshrug said:


> Creative Labs E5 review is up, has me really excited for the G5! Playstation 4 USB works perfect with recognizing the E5's mic for chat (gotta raise the gain a bit), sounds great out of the box but the mobile app allows for volume balance mixing and custom EQ. Add console surround decoding (Dolby or DTS at this stage of the game), maybe have the option to configure the analog line-out as a chat-out for LAN events, and the G5 will better the Mixamp in basically every way!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/products/sound-blaster-e5-24-bit-192khz-high-resolution-usb-dac-portable-headphone-amplifier/reviews/14251


 

 Any release or maybe preorder info on the G5? Hoping to get it in time for Battlefront. Come on Nov 17th!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

calpis said:


> X7 can transmit and receive over bluetooth?
> 
> Also, getting in a nice pair of IEMs tomorrow. No one better steal it off my porch.




No, I hooked up a small, low latency Bluetooth Transmitter/Receiver that has a 3.5mm input. You can find them for like $30-$40. I bought the Avantree one, Saturn Pro I believe it's called.

From the X7's headphone out, I hooked the gadget up. That's what my Jaybird X2 syncs too.

X7 is only a receiver.

The Philips X2 seems to get enough juice for a good volume from the thing too. It comes with a really small 3.mm malemale adapter, so it literally can hang from the X2's input. The Saturn Pro basically weighs nothing too. Instant bluetooth headphone, lol. Though the Philips X2 sounds like crap on it. The Jaybird fares a little better, though still not up to it's best potential.


----------



## calpis

Gotcha. I had something similar that I used for my sonos. Ended up returning that one and picked up a receiver only model because it was one hell of a time to find something that stayed on and didn't go to sleep after 5 min if no activity.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll let you know how it fares with more use. I only tested it briefly. I'm wondering if it's the device or the Philips X2 that has a really bad imbalance now when I ue them together. My X2 has been acting up, where when I use the Boompro, it constantly pops and drops audio. I dunno...just a bit salty lately.


----------



## arandomguy

evshrug said:


> Define minimum? Is that budget constrained? Or you want to make the smallest sound quality improvement? Generally, the KSC75 is quite good for the cost but it's also the lowest-costing of the recommended gaming headphones. As you keep "leveling up" you get more and more options at each "level." You would probably be pretty impressed with some JVC HA-RX700 and 900, especially with some of the easy mods, or after that perhaps some Sennheiser HD449, HD558, or HD598.


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions.
  
 Was wondering how much I'd be having to spend and where to start looking for a noticeable improvement. Looks like just in the $60 range (RX700) could be starting point.
  
 No real budget per say but I'm reluctant to spend that much on a first step and due to other factors as well such as comfort (also had some ear lobe rash/irritation issues last time I tried full headphones years ago).
  
 I'll look into the JVCs and HD449 you suggested. Maybe the HD558 as well, although that is really pushing how much I'm looking to spend at this point.
  
 Wondering if there are any other suggestions in those ranges (I guess $50-<$150 judging by the pricing of those with a quick search)?


----------



## Evshrug

helvetica bold said:


> Any release or maybe preorder info on the G5? Hoping to get it in time for Battlefront. Come on Nov 17th!




Here's all I know:
http://www.creative.com/corporate/pressroom/?id=13476

Says November, so it should come out right around the time of the new games... You should probably have just days to wait.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

arandomguy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> Was wondering how much I'd be having to spend and where to start looking for a noticeable improvement. Looks like just in the $60 range (RX700) could be starting point.
> 
> ...




I'd go for the 558, no doubt.


----------



## Blze001

arandomguy said:


> I'll look into the JVCs and HD449 you suggested. Maybe the HD558 as well, although that is really pushing how much I'm looking to spend at this point.
> 
> Wondering if there are any other suggestions in those ranges (I guess $50-<$150 judging by the pricing of those with a quick search)?


 
  
 Just echoing what MLE said above, the 558 is an excellent jumping in point. You can get some used ones for around $60 off Amazon and they'll scale pretty well if you pick up an amp at some point.
  
 A note on used: Every headphone I've bought has been sold by Amazon and listed as "Used - Good". All have been practically new with a scuff or two here and there, they seem to be very critical when assigning grades to stuff. I just clean them when I get them (more for my own paranoia than because they're dirty) and I'm good to go.
  
 EDIT: If you really want to do the minimum price-for-sound route, the Superlux HD681 might be an option. Only $32 and apparently alarmingly good sounding. I can't recommend them too much since I haven't heard them, but I'd imagine they did something to earn the reputation they have around here.


----------



## burritoboy9984

You could add Philips SHP-9500 to the list of budget headphones. Even has a 3.5mm detachable cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative sent me the SoundBlaster Jam bluetooth headphones. They go for like $50, and I gotta say for it's price and wireless, and foam pads, I'm liking it. Not going to win any awards for flagship killers, but its SQ is pleasing and I like how easy it is to use. I have a harder time pairing my Jaybird X2 and that Amazon neckband headphone. I asked for something cheap to toss about in a bag, and this fits the bill. I could use this at work with no issues.

I just wish the stupid ass PS4 would've had Bluetooth connectivity with it. I'm returning that Avantree bluetooth transmitter/.receiver due to bad/grainy audio quality.


----------



## AxelCloris

A hiss-free or low noise, low latency BT transmitter with a TRRS that could handle stereo and mic data would be amazing. Connect that to a 3D DSP device and you could use things like the Momentum Wireless 2.0. That would just be amazing in my book.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, someone should get on that. There are various low latency transmitters, but without microphone line, and I dunno about their nose. I don't feel like playing the lottery with Amazon.

In case anyone is wondering why I'm looking into wireless headphones, it's because I'm tired of the mess of cables and tangling on the Koss KSC clip ons.

If and when Koss makes some KSC35/75 wireless, OMG... JUST DO IT.


----------



## toshly

what would be the headphones to buy from purely a competitive aspect, im an fps player currently using m50's which are quite horrible for competitive gaming, are the ad700 & akgs the pinnacle in this regard or is it possible a headphone can be alot better the hd800 for example


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Detail + soundstage depth/width = gaming prowess. So it stands to reason that something like the HD800 known for both will be ideal.


----------



## toshly

if i had to go for something cheaper, would akg k701 or q701 be the best option over ad700 for example or is it just splitting hairs?


----------



## odib

Toshly, I would recommend buying the AKG K7xx (has a flat headband) from Massdrop. I owned the AKG Q701 and found the the headband bumps very painful. I think they are also cheaper.


----------



## toshly

i currently have Creative Sound Blaster Zx 116dB PCIe Gaming Sound Card with High Performance Headphone Amp , will i need something more powerful?


----------



## toshly

i have the creative sound blaster zx along with the amp it comes with


odib said:


> Toshly, I would recommend buying the AKG K7xx (has a flat headband) from Massdrop. I owned the AKG Q701 and found the the headband bumps very painful. I think they are also cheaper.


 
  
 i have the creative sound blaster zx along with the amp it comes with, would that be enough to power it or will i need something better?
  
 & k701 (k702) purely because of comfortability or is it better in terms of competitive gaming , mle gave it a 10/10 whilst giving the q701 a 9.5


----------



## shuto77

arandomguy said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> Was wondering how much I'd be having to spend and where to start looking for a noticeable improvement. Looks like just in the $60 range (RX700) could be starting point.
> 
> ...




I can vouch for the Sennheiser HD558.I had the HD598, which is quite similar. It's also comfortable for the most part. The velour earpads on the HD558s are *worlds* better than any pleather pads you'll see at that price point. I hate pleather personally. You'll notice most cans at that price are closed and have pleather. No good for gaming or comfort.


----------



## shuto77

What's everyone playing right now? I'm still playing Witcher 3 on PS4. 

Is anyone here getting Battlefront or COD for PS4? I haven't played any online fps since Halo 4,and want to start playing with some friends. I miss having Halo and Gears on Xbox-- there was always a group of people down for those games.


----------



## odib

Toshly I've only had both the AKG Q701 and AKG k702 65th Annie's so I can't outright compare the the Kxx to the headphones you're keen on but from what I've read they are all pretty much sound very similar to one another. Soundstage wise they are all pretty great for competitive gaming. I also own a sound blaster z and that sounded fine with my AKGs


----------



## bavinck

shuto77 said:


> What's everyone playing right now? I'm still playing Witcher 3 on PS4.
> 
> Is anyone here getting Battlefront or COD for PS4? I haven't played any online fps since Halo 4,and want to start playing with some friends. I miss having Halo and Gears on Xbox-- there was always a group of people down for those games.




Same here, witcher 3 is amazing. I will likely be getting cod psn gt bavinck if you want a friend. Huge crowd regularly plays destiny if you are looking to get into that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm quite tired of the overcrowding of open world. It's getting to where linear RPGs becoming open world and ruining series for me. I was hyped for Tales of Zestiria which comes out next week, only to find out they went open world. ***, there goes a linear, but focused design in place of lazy sandbox areas with points of interest.

I'm not saying all open world designs are bad, but they lack focus more often than not. So, yeah, I'm not about that, and it seems this is what everything is going towards in the future.

I'll take a strong, linear experience with memorable set pieces (Uncharted, God of War, etc) over a big sandbox where they just basically let you do whatever, with no real focus and no real memorable world designs.

I already know all my favorite series are gonna end up open world, which irritates me and will make me stop playing video games altogether.


----------



## bobhaggard74

I've been searching for about an hour. Anyone know how I use my 2012 mixamp with zallman mic, akg 712's and new xbox one controller with the 3.5mm port with the xbox one?


----------



## Yethal

bobhaggard74 said:


> I've been searching for about an hour. Anyone know how I use my 2012 mixamp with zallman mic, akg 712's and new xbox one controller with the 3.5mm port with the xbox one?


 
 USB from mixamp to Xbox for power. Optical from xbox to mixamp for game audio, PS4 chat cable (like this one) from controller to the Mixamp. AKg and zalman to the Y-splitter.


----------



## bavinck

mad lust envy said:


> I'm quite tired of the overcrowding of open world. It's getting to where linear RPGs becoming open world and ruining series for me. I was hyped for Tales of Zestiria which comes out next week, only to find out they went open world. ***, there goes a linear, but focused design in place of lazy sandbox areas with points of interest.
> 
> I'm not saying all open world designs are bad, but they lack focus more often than not. So, yeah, I'm not about that, and it seems this is what everything is going towards in the future.
> 
> ...




I agree, good linear stories are few and far between so far this generation. That being said, I am only following the main quests right now in witcher 3 and it is one of the bests stories I have ever played in gaming, and it's open world.


----------



## toshly

any of you guys recommend the little dot mk2 amp for my akg q701 or is there something better in a similar price range?


----------



## bavinck

I'm using a Magni 1 with excellent results on my k7xxs connected to mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Great, so my Fidelio X2 has definitely developed a channel imbalance/left driver messing up. I have less than a month before my warranty is up. Hope Philips will honor the warranty. I know how much of a hassle it is to get their customer service to even work.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> Great, so my Fidelio X2 has definitely developed a channel imbalance/left driver messing up. I have less than a month before my warranty is up. Hope Philips will honor the warranty. I know how much of a hassle it is to get their customer service to even work.




Sorry to hear that. 

I hope they realize that you've helped sell hundreds, if not thousands, of X1s and X2s. Too bad we don't have data tracking this.


----------



## bobhaggard74

Thank you so much! you are a life saver


----------



## bobhaggard74

Sorry I'm a complete noob, where does the Y splitter go in the mixamp? Also am I not able to update the 2011 mixamp? I downloaded the update off the site and when I run it and connect my mixamp it still says connect a device :/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Updates to Mixamps started with 2013 I believe. And the Y splitter (audio and microphone?) go to the headphone jack.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Great, so my Fidelio X2 has definitely developed a channel imbalance/left driver messing up. I have less than a month before my warranty is up. Hope Philips will honor the warranty. I know how much of a hassle it is to get their customer service to even work.


 
 Dam that sucks. I know my left ear can listen a bit more clearly than my right ear and even then I barely notice the unbalance caused by my ear...just ever so slightly. I dont think I ever want to hear an imbalance headphone ever in my life . Well since your warranty is almost up, better give them a call asap because dropping another 300 (well Im sure they are going to go for 200 or maybe less comes BF) isnt something everyone can do....unlike the KSC75, those I can throw away and buy as needed.


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Hey quick question for those that are familiar with the DSS2 and the Mixamp Pro. 
  
 I currently use the 2011 Mixamp Pro (Apparently the one with less mic hiss), and as a somewhat competitive FPS gamer, it infuriates my teammates that my mic quality is horrendous (mic is not the issue). I have resorted to using the PS4 mono headset as my source of chat and just having headphones connected to the mixamp.
  
 As a result of this I wanted some advice on upgrading my source for DH.
  
 I cannot find an option for the Creative SoundBlaster Recon3D anywhere in the UK, and for the price I don't feel there X1 (? Is that the right name, the $300 option) is worth the money as I could just pick up a decent reciever that provides VSS. 
  
 So I am left with 3 options:
  
 1) Continue to use my 2011 Mixamp Pro without the Equalizer settings.
 2) Trade it my 2011 Mixamp and get a 2015 Mixamp Pro which has preset EQ modes.
 3) Trade it my 2011 Mixamp and get a DSS2.
  
 In terms of quality which would be my best option guys? And if there are any other options please let me know.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## bobhaggard74

Perfect thanks Mad Lust. Y splitter is for my akg 712 and Zalman mic  for my xbox one


----------



## Change is Good

After a couple days of constant use, I can confirm that the K267 at $129 is the real deal and a STEAL for anyone who needs a beater closed headphone with superb isolation. I honestly can't think of any better option at this price, and I've tried quite a few. AKG and Massdrop are wrecking the headphone game with these prices on their mid-tier line up, I really must say. Bravo...


----------



## Diamondpact

Wow, great review, I wish I came across it sooner rather than over 2 months of headaches trying to decide which headphone to get 
  
 I do heavy gaming, mmo and fps. While also listening to music now and then, tho music isn't my main focus.
  
 I have come down to a few remaining headphones which I still can't decide. 
  
 AKG Q701(This was my #1 option, but hearing that they changed to china manufacturing. I am not sure if the sound for competitive gaming is the same as the Austrian one) Is this head set still the best for positional accuracy for competitive gaming while still having some life to the sound? Is it worse or better or the same compared to its Austrian variant before switching the manufacturing? I would greatly appreciate the info.
  
 My next ones are AD700X vs ad 700 for competitive gaming and ad 900x. 
  
 Sony ma 900 is my last option.
  
 Of these, which do you think is best for competitive gaming? Which is the best overall as in fun factor+competitive gaming+immersion)
  
 My audio source is asus sonar dg optical out to my schiit modi2/magni2 uber stack.
  
 Also how is hifiman he 400i/400s for competitive gaming?(I saw no real review on them :*/ )
  
 Since i am using the optical out from the cheap sound card to my stack, I should experience no audio sound quality loss right? Worst case ill upgrade it. My mic is separate line through usb(At 2020+).
  
 Thanks in advanced, if you can solve these issues, you will remove most of the stress I had in deciding the best headphone. I look forward to your enlightening experience! This is my first entry into the midfi/hifi territory, I'm coming from the astro a50 and they've been great, but the audio position accuracy felt missing


----------



## Yethal

diamondpact said:


> Wow, great review, I wish I came across it sooner rather than over 2 months of headaches trying to decide which headphone to get
> 
> I do heavy gaming, mmo and fps. While also listening to music now and then, tho music isn't my main focus.
> 
> ...


 

 AFAIK all Xonar cards use the same DSP chip so there should be no quality loss here since You're bypassing integrated dac/amp section. As for the headphones, read the first post of this thread.


----------



## Diamondpact

cheers for the confirmation regarding my sound card, thats what i was thinking the along the line. Bypass through optical out while supporting dolby surround. I read the whole review on the first page, and it has made me decide on the AKG q701, but since the review the aka manufacturing went from Austria to now china. I've read Chinese aka q701 variants are lower quality where the right driver for some have rattled or died. 
  
 I am wondering if some people owned both the old q701(Austrian) and the new ones manufactured from china and can see the difference in performance, particularly positional audio accuracy or can hopefully confirm that there is no loss in quality/performance. I hope they are the same or better, but unfortunately i don't have the luxury of affording a mistake atm and thus would be stuck with the decision for a while. I am open to suggestions to better headphones offering better imaging and soundstage for competitive/immersive gaming.
  
 Thanks in advanced.


----------



## martin vegas

Here's a decent bit of music to put them headphones to good use!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://soundcloud.com/ideal_noise/liquidmotions-vol-6-mixed-by-ideal-noise-2015


----------



## bobhaggard74

Honestly don't get the Q701's unless you are going to fix the headband. They are really uncomfortable. I just sold mine after a year of hardly using them. Try the AKG 612's. I think you'll like them just as much I had both at one time and love the sound stage on them. Made me shed tears of joy when watching the season 1 finale of Legend Of Korra. Greatest Change for days!!!


----------



## AngryGoldfish

I tried making a thread about this, but there seems to be a problem with the forum. Either there is a bug or the moderators have changed their terms and conditions regarding threads being checked before final submission. Considering my question is only partially related to gaming headphones, please ignore this if you don't feel it is a fitting place to ask. However, if you have an opinion, please let me know as soon as you can, as the Massdrop for the K7XX ends very shortly.
  
 The Fidelio X2's are roughly €400 from Amazon. I believe they could be found for cheaper than that, but very few places appear to offer them. The benefit of the X2's over the AKG K7XX's is how easy they are to power. Whilst I intend to purchase a NFB-15 from Audio-GD for my desktop no matter what model I end up going with, I will also be using the headphones with my television to watch Netflix and Blu-rays on my Playstation in another room. My concern is that the K7XX's will not run very efficiently. Can anyone offer an opinion on this? I have no problem purchasing a small headphone amplifier that I can use for my television, but the outputs on my TV are limited and I wonder whether it's even possible. Can I run digital optical out from my Samsung television to an amplifier and then to my headphones? If so and there are no affordable (sub-€100) amplifiers with a toslink optical digital input, can I purchase a Toslink to Coaxial converter and finish the chain with something like the FIIO E10K?
  
 I will be using the headphones for gaming mostly, but also listening to music (everything from Hip-Hop to Heavy Metal to Classical) and watching films. I am not a highly competitive FPS player, but I do like to remove all disadvantages. I value immersion and fun as much as I do clarity and accuracy. I prefer a leaner sound in general when listening to music, something that is natural and clear. My current headphones are the AKG K550's and have been very happy with the sound signature. It's a tighter, leaner sound, with decent soundstaging. I had always intended on picking up a second pair to go alongside them, but that has been pushed forward after I broke my beloved K550's. Whilst I still hope to repair them, I am keen to pick up their replacement now rather than later, especially as the Massdrop K7XX's ends in a few hours and will only be €250 including shipping and import duties from the States. Comparing that to the Fidelio X2's at €400, even if I purchased an E10K, I'd still be saving money.
  
 Any thoughts?


----------



## Blze001

bobhaggard74 said:


> Honestly don't get the Q701's unless you are going to fix the headband. They are really uncomfortable. I just sold mine after a year of hardly using them. Try the AKG 612's. I think you'll like them just as much I had both at one time and love the sound stage on them. Made me shed tears of joy when watching the season 1 finale of Legend Of Korra. Greatest Change for days!!!


 
  
 I guess my head is thicker than most, because I have no comfort issues at all with the headband.


----------



## Yethal

martin vegas said:


> Here's a decent bit of music to put them headphones to good use!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> ...


 
 I was kinda disappointed that it's not Sandstorm


----------



## Evshrug

I loved the Q701, owned and enjoyed it for two years after Mad, very good soundstage and a bass improvement from the AD700. I had zero comfort issues after getting a baby seatbelt wrap from Babies R Us and putting that over the headband.

If you don't need the detachable cable, and have a decently strong amplifier, the AKG K612 is also a very high performing headphone at a lower cost. That's what I'm using now. It has a flat headband too. The only issue is a Mixamp, by itself, won't be enough amp to support the headphone... Might get loud enough, but the sound will be weak and anemic.

If you don't already have a Mixamp, I'd recommend waiting till the Sound Blaster G5 comes out next month. Surround sound, built-in microphone which can do noise cancelling, and a much more powerful amp and a more detailed DAC.


----------



## Evshrug

AngryGoldfish


The coax on the FiiO E10k is an output, I have the E10k and the only input for it is USB.

Check out eBay for a Turtle Beach DSS. That has inputs for USB, optical, and 3.5mm auxilary cables. It's cheaper, has an amp that's enough for the K7xx (at least to get started), and optionally you can turn on Dolby decoding and Dolby Headphone for virtual surround, or dial up the bass. The DSS serves as a DSP, DAC, and amp... Great starter or simple device.


----------



## Blze001

evshrug said:


> Check out eBay for a Turtle Beach DSS. That has inputs for USB, optical, and 3.5mm auxilary cables. It's cheaper, has an amp that's enough for the K7xx (at least to get started), and optionally you can turn on Dolby decoding and Dolby Headphone for virtual surround, or dial up the bass. The DSS serves as a DSP, DAC, and amp... Great starter or simple device.


 
  
 Can confirm: I ran my Q701s directly off my DSS2 for a month while I ordered and built my amp, worked pretty well. Now it's my DAC and I'm honestly not sure if I want to replace it or not, seems to be working just fine in that role.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

evshrug said:


> AngryGoldfish
> 
> 
> The coax on the FiiO E10k is an output, I have the E10k and the only input for it is USB.
> ...


 
  
 xD ^_^
  
 Yeah, I realised shortly after that the Coaxial output on the E10K wouldn't work and I'd have to find a device with a Toslink input. The next cheapest option in the "high-end" audio world is the Audioengine D1. This is compact, not too expensive, and was seemingly designed to be used with a television.
  
 But that, DSS from Turtle Beach looks ideal. The original DSS seems to be discontinued and might be harder to source. Is the DSS2 just as good or was there some 'magic' in the DSS original?


----------



## Blze001

angrygoldfish said:


> xD ^_^
> 
> Yeah, I realised shortly after that the Coaxial output on the E10K wouldn't work and I'd have to find a device with a Toslink input. The next cheapest option in the "high-end" audio world is the Audioengine D1. This is compact, not too expensive, and was seemingly designed to be used with a television.
> 
> But that, DSS from Turtle Beach looks ideal. The original DSS seems to be discontinued and might be harder to source. Is the DSS2 just as good or was there some 'magic' in the DSS original?


 
  
 DSS had 7.1 processing, the DSS2 only has 5.1 because Turtle Beach realized hardly anyone used the 7.1. Sound-wise, the DSS2 has a slight edge, imo.


----------



## lenroot77

angrygoldfish said:


> xD ^_^
> 
> Yeah, I realised shortly after that the Coaxial output on the E10K wouldn't work and I'd have to find a device with a Toslink input. The next cheapest option in the "high-end" audio world is the Audioengine D1. This is compact, not too expensive, and was seemingly designed to be used with a television.
> 
> But that, DSS from Turtle Beach looks ideal. The original DSS seems to be discontinued and might be harder to source. Is the DSS2 just as good or was there some 'magic' in the DSS original?




Dss2 dropped Dolby headphone and uses TB's own surround processing. I only had the first dss, but read many places over the years that the dss2 didn't sound as good.

Often u can find the dss sold with headphones for a low cost. One of the bundles was the dx-11 if I recall correctly.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

lenroot77 said:


> Dss2 dropped Dolby headphone and uses TB's own surround processing. I only had the first dss, but read many places over the years that the dss2 didn't sound as good.


 
  
 Yeah, the reviews I've seen haven't been great, but it is highly affordable. I don't know if Netflix even supports surround sound so it'll only be the Blu-rays that will benefit. I don't game that much on my consoles any more since upgrading my PC. I'll probably end up going with something more traditional like the Audioengine D1. Kinda wish FIIO offered something with the features I need.


----------



## xela3

Situations changed for me, what would you guys recommend for closed back headphones around $200, I have been using the HD558 for the past 1 1/2 years and was looking at the g4me zero but if there are better options that still have decent sound stage but are still fun sounding (only own the hd 558 and vmoda crossfade wireless right now), Id like to hear what you guys have to say.


----------



## Change is Good

xela3 said:


> Situations changed for me, what would you guys recommend for closed back headphones around $200, I have been using the HD558 for the past 1 1/2 years and was looking at the g4me zero but if there are better options that still have decent sound stage but are still fun sounding (only own the hd 558 and vmoda crossfade wireless right now), Id like to hear what you guys have to say.




I recently mentioned that the K267 at $129 from Massdrop is the best closed headphone I heard under $200. Only other closed headphone I liked in that price range was the HP100/HP150.


----------



## Diamondpact

Thanks all for the input, hmm. Do you guys recommend any headphones with insane audio positioning and soundstage similiar to the ad 700x and the q701, but little better base? 

I really want the q701 but the headband pain seems to be common, and thus I am looking for something that has very close audio positional accuracy and soundstage, with similiar or little more bass. Too much bass will drown out everything I feel. 

All suggestions are welcome. I won't have trouble driving them due to having a modi2/magni2 uber stacks. Lower ohm ones are a bit more proffered, but overall I don't mind ohms.

I want to make my entrance into the headfi market memorable 

Always harder to forget first time experiences for me haha.

Thanks in advanced!


----------



## Diamondpact

The hurdles of trying to find the best headphone without being too expensive :*( 

I read some o your commends, now I'm worried haha. If I use toslink optical out from my asks xonar sound card to my schiit 2 uber stack. Would I get 5.1 dds or will it be stereo? I hope nothing changed and still get 5.1 dds 

Anyways, at this rate, I might have to deal with possible headband pain from q701, I hope there are all around better alternatives, couldn't find any so far  will continue looking while checking back here whenever possible as well


----------



## Blze001

diamondpact said:


> The hurdles of trying to find the best headphone without being too expensive :*(
> 
> I read some o your commends, now I'm worried haha. If I use toslink optical out from my asks xonar sound card to my schiit 2 uber stack. Would I get 5.1 dds or will it be stereo? I hope nothing changed and still get 5.1 dds
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe you're one of the users (like me) who doesn't have a problem with the Q701's headband. If you do, there are a few options for solving the issue, the simplest being wrapping some padding around the strap.
  
 As far as bass, doing the bass mod helps a little. I think you'd be surprised, it's not that the Q701s can't do bass, they just don't do it on their own. If you mess with EQ on the computer, they'll rumble nicely.


----------



## Diamondpact

interesting, that is good to hear about the q701. If I do the base mod, would they sound similar to the akg 712 pro? which of the two have bigger sound stage/positional accuracy before and after?
  
 the akg 712 look nice and all around, but a bit expensive for me 
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## DJScope

I'm surprised that the Takstar Pro 80 isn't on this list.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nobody gave MLE a sample, that's why. 
  
 Even though his absence and (kinda) vacation from this hobby is well deserved I hope one day he'll find his way back to this thread and review more headphones again. It was always good to read and kinda exciting, no matter the price range.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^We'll see...

Ah, the absolute ****ing nightmare of dealing with Philips customer service, or the sheer non-existence of it.

If the masses could hear my absolute disdain for their customer service, I wish I could publicly shame them for it, so they could get off their asses and do something about it.

edit: I get a hold of one, and we go through the steps, and halfway in, he leaves the chat. What

edit 2: So I got a call back, and they were able to finish the process. Thank god. I'll be getting a replacement or refund. Good to know.


----------



## toshly

would the schiit Magni 2 uber or 02 amp be an upgrade over my sound blaster z amp in terms of gaming with my q701? i'd also like to know if another sound card or mix amp could do virtual surround better then my sound blaster z. im happy with my current setup but im always looking to maximize performance, im a very competitive player in fps games


----------



## Darkangelpt

toshly said:


> would the schiit Magni 2 uber or 02 amp be an upgrade over my sound blaster z amp in terms of gaming with my q701? i'd also like to know if another sound card or mix amp could do virtual surround better then my sound blaster z. im happy with my current setup but im always looking to maximize performance, im a very competitive player in fps games




I have a akg q701 and a Soundblaster z as well. 
I normally game on xbox one. 
The magni2 on the pc connected to the Soundblaster the bass is a tad better. 
But on the xbox using the mixamp the magni 2 only changed te volume. But it's only my opinion


----------



## bavinck

I use the mixamp with ps4, with the magni 1 and k7xx. My ears noticed a volume increase and bass increase in quantity and quality with the magni. YMMV I guess.


----------



## raband

I'd look at the K7xx from Massdrop rather than the Q701 if I was buying new
  
  
 edit: apologies - I thought OP was looking to purchase. Just re-read the post.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> ^We'll see...
> 
> Ah, the absolute ****ing nightmare of dealing with Philips customer service, or the sheer non-existence of it.
> 
> ...




Glead too see things worked out


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> I'd look at the K7xx from Massdrop rather than the Q701 if I was buying new
> 
> 
> edit: apologies - I thought OP was looking to purchase. Just re-read the post.


 

 I have finally figured out how to quote people...I know...lol..  I was the old school kinda guy and recently started getting into forums. 
  
 Anyway, is the k7xx from mass drop better than the q701? whats difference between the k7xx from mass drop and regular k7xx from amazon for instance? Ive heard the akg headphones work well with the schit stack which is great news 
  
 Also is it possible to use the astro a50 mixamp from ps4 and plug it into the schit stack 2 uber? from there headphones for dolby surround and power for the cans?
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## Change is Good

diamondpact said:


> I have finally figured out how to quote people...I know...lol..  I was the old school kinda guy and recently started getting into forums.
> 
> Anyway, is the k7xx from mass drop better than the q701? whats difference between the k7xx from mass drop and regular k7xx from amazon for instance? Ive heard the akg headphones work well with the schit stack which is great news
> 
> ...




Which is better is entirely subjective, as with any other opinionated, nonfactual topic. It all depends if you like a brighter, leaner tone (Q701) or a slightly warm, more balanced tone (K7XX). Both are great cans for their price, but the K7XX is a Massdrop exclusive that is sold for $199. Any other distribution of it is second hand and more than likely marked up in price.


----------



## mindbomb

The sound blaster z has high output impedance (~20 ohm iirc), but the AKGs aren't that affected by it despite being low impedance headphones, so that's alright I think. The k7xx has a smooth headband, while the q701 has bumps. I can't understate how much people complain about the comfort of the bumps. They also make k702's without bumps, which are similar to the q701 in sound, but the older revisions still have bumps.The k7xx is more similar to the k712 in sound, so the massdrop deal is a bargain if you can get it.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> ^We'll see...
> 
> Ah, the absolute ****ing nightmare of dealing with Philips customer service, or the sheer non-existence of it.
> 
> ...




What a nightmare, and altogether inexcusable when you're talking about a $300 product. 

Glad it (finally) was resolved.


----------



## Evshrug

Some clarifications and personal opinions, folks, but aiming to help!




angrygoldfish said:


> xD ^_^
> 
> That DSS from Turtle Beach looks ideal. The original DSS seems to be discontinued and might be harder to source. Is the DSS2 just as good or was there some 'magic' in the DSS original?




Well, the DSS "original" is recommended because it's easily found on eBay for $30 or less. At least, it was super easy last year, I saw a seller with a bunch of them and many other sellers. FiiO does make an optical converter, the D03k or D05k, but I'm pretty sure it costs more anyway. There's also a FiiO stereo wireless transmitter too; again, more $$.



lenroot77 said:


> Dss2 dropped Dolby headphone and uses TB's own surround processing. I only had the first dss, but read many places over the years that the dss2 didn't sound as good.



Dolby Headphone and licensing adds to the manufacturing cost, yes. The DSS2 has a Cirrus Logic DAC chip, and actually sounds pretty good from what I've read (search user i95north in this thread for owner impressions). It still has Dolby decoding, but after that step it uses Cirrus' headphone surround mix. If you don't need headphone surround, apparently the DAC/amp is supposed to be slightly clearer.



blze001 said:


> DSS had 7.1 processing, the DSS2 only has 5.1 because Turtle Beach realized hardly anyone used the 7.1. Sound-wise, the DSS2 has a slight edge, imo.



This has been re-tread a few times in this thread too, both units can receive the same Dolby 7.1 signal and decode it properly, it's just that Turtle Beach's marketing gave people the impression (with a picture of 4 speakers in a video, and 5.1 written on the box) that it wouldn't "read" the 7 speaker directions. The DSS2 does, it just uses Cirrus' headphone algorythm for the output while the original DSS licensed a different Dolby product, "Dolby Headphone," for _it's_ output.

Confused yet? Both have Dolby Digital Live (5.1/7.1) input, but they have slightly different headphone surround outputs. If AngryGoldfish is in a headphone surround thread and he doesn't want to use headphone surround, then either will probably be fine.




change is good said:


> I recently mentioned that the K267 at $129 from Massdrop is the best closed headphone I heard under $200. Only other closed headphone I liked in that price range was the HP100/HP150.




I don't like closed headphones because I have personal fit, heat, and comfort issues, but Change has a good ear for these closed headphones (and thumbstick covers) and I'd trust his recommendation here. For open headphones in this price range, I'd still stick with recommending an AKG Kxx or K612 (the latter if you've got a loud amp where you use like 20% of the volume), I've found the bass and the whole frequency range satisfying and energetic for both of these all-rounder suited headphones.

The Schiit M&M stack is solid and has decent performance, but I was a little unimpressed and found it a bit dry. I heard it and thought "Oh. Ok. That's clear, I guess that's pretty good." However, it didn't have any qualities that left me enchanted. I'd suggest at least a Vali instead, or a Garage1217 amp, or if you want a capable/transportable all in one I suggest a Creative E5 or even better the G5 whenever it comes out next month (if you want E5 + console gaming surround).


----------



## Diamondpact

change is good said:


> Which is better is entirely subjective, as with any other opinionated, nonfactual topic. It all depends if you like a brighter, leaner tone (Q701) or a slightly warm, more balanced tone (K7XX). Both are great cans for their price, but the K7XX is a Massdrop exclusive that is sold for $199. Any other distribution of it is second hand and more than likely marked up in price.


 

 sorry, mean which is better for competitive gaming(audio positional and accuracy que's) and immersive gaming. 
  
 Thanks in advanced. 
  
 I came across the hd800, mahgod, they are the best overall headphones for competitive/immersive gaming and music . but the price tag ;_;
  
 I would love to come across a detailed review comparing various other headphones against them in competitive/fun/comfort categories! If the gap is big enough, i might take the leap haha. Will require some saving on the side for them. Unless theres better alternatives that offer similar performance but cheaper.


----------



## Evshrug

AD700x, AKG Q/K701, AKG K7xx, AKG K612, Sony MA900... The first two and the Sony are pretty much the top choices for competitive at-home sound whoring, nothing else below the HD800's cost has come close to the ideal traits for the niche. If you want something more revealing with also great expansive soundstage after the K/Q701, the next step pretty much is just deciding between the HD800 and open Ether, and maybe the HiFiman Edition X once that comes out, or the Dharma.

If you want to improve the experience upon the AKGs, you're better off experiencing an upgrade to your DAC and amp. Those contribute to the soundstage and separation... The AKGs scale up well past their initial price range if you feed them well, and $1k+ headphones can really be a quite small improvement if you don't have a very clean and capable system anyway.

(I know this won't "help," but I can confirm that listening to "Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes" in high-res FLAC on a setup of HD800+Cavalli Liquid Carbon (balanced)+ Audio GD DAC19... was a truly stunning moment that really haunted me and stuck with me throughout that night, one of the speechless moments at RMAF... But the next day, at the Cavalli booth, overall I preferred the slightly less airy Ether over the same HD800 on an even higher-end setup, and later the Fostex HP900 + the $8k Fostex tube amp and I don't even know what DAC absolutely blew me away with stunning musicality with Radiohead's "Weird Fishes/Arppegio" compared to the same headphone and same song file on a decent couple-hundred-$ transportable DAC/amp combo before it)


----------



## raband

Given all the above ^^ I'd add the HD598's in there too.
  
 Still in the price range, maybe not as favoured as the others, but damn they are comfortable for me.
  
 Would definitely recommend trying on any of the ones you're looking at before you buy if you get a change - would give up 5% sound whoring for comfort with a set of cans that I forget are on my head. My K7xx's and my HD700's always feel present when they're on my head - as if they need adjusting. The 598's just disappear.
  
 (keep in mind - that is even more personal than sound - what feels great so some can hurt others)


----------



## Fegefeuer

Have you guys seen the new all black 598 Special Edition?


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> Have you guys seen the new all black 598 Special Edition?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Now, that's sexy...


----------



## raband

Damn - that with the brown pads off the standard one.......


----------



## Diamondpact

evshrug said:


> AD700x, AKG Q/K701, AKG K7xx, AKG K612, Sony MA900... The first two and the Sony are pretty much the top choices for competitive at-home sound whoring, nothing else below the HD800's cost has come close to the ideal traits for the niche. If you want something more revealing with also great expansive soundstage after the K/Q701, the next step pretty much is just deciding between the HD800 and open Ether, and maybe the HiFiman Edition X once that comes out, or the Dharma.
> 
> If you want to improve the experience upon the AKGs, you're better off experiencing an upgrade to your DAC and amp. Those contribute to the soundstage and separation... The AKGs scale up well past their initial price range if you feed them well, and $1k+ headphones can really be a quite small improvement if you don't have a very clean and capable system anyway.
> 
> (I know this won't "help," but I can confirm that listening to "Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes" in high-res FLAC on a setup of HD800+Cavalli Liquid Carbon (balanced)+ Audio GD DAC19... was a truly stunning moment that really haunted me and stuck with me throughout that night, one of the speechless moments at RMAF... But the next day, at the Cavalli booth, overall I preferred the slightly less airy Ether over the same HD800 on an even higher-end setup, and later the Fostex HP900 + the $8k Fostex tube amp and I don't even know what DAC absolutely blew me away with stunning musicality with Radiohead's "Weird Fishes/Arppegio" compared to the same headphone and same song file on a decent couple-hundred-$ transportable DAC/amp combo before it)


 

 wow, thanks for the detailed response, i appreciate it. I have decided on the Q701 or ma900. I found a wrap around for the headband on amazon for 5 bucks incase the bumps are uncomfortable.
  
 Can anyone confirm that if i do the bass mod on the Q701, would it lose some of its sound stage or audio positional accuracy?(win/loss) or is it a completely win win situation? I have found many bass mods for for the Q701, can someone link me the one they found to be the best one?(I'm not being lazy, just safe to prevent irreparable damage once I get the Q701's) I was looking at the ma900 as well. hmm now to decide which of the two..


----------



## raband

Worth looking at the K7xx's on massdrop before you buy?
  
 From all account's they're pretty much the Q701's, but with better bass and no headband bumps?
  
 Which seem to be the 2 things you want to improve on with the 701's


----------



## AngryGoldfish

evshrug said:


> Some clarifications and personal opinions, folks, but aiming to help!
> Well, the DSS "original" is recommended because it's easily found on eBay for $30 or less. At least, it was super easy last year, I saw a seller with a bunch of them and many other sellers. FiiO does make an optical converter, the D03k or D05k, but I'm pretty sure it costs more anyway. There's also a FiiO stereo wireless transmitter too; again, more $$.
> Dolby Headphone and licensing adds to the manufacturing cost, yes. The DSS2 has a Cirrus Logic DAC chip, and actually sounds pretty good from what I've read (search user i95north in this thread for owner impressions). It still has Dolby decoding, but after that step it uses Cirrus' headphone surround mix. If you don't need headphone surround, apparently the DAC/amp is supposed to be slightly clearer.
> This has been re-tread a few times in this thread too, both units can receive the same Dolby 7.1 signal and decode it properly, it's just that Turtle Beach's marketing gave people the impression (with a picture of 4 speakers in a video, and 5.1 written on the box) that it wouldn't "read" the 7 speaker directions. The DSS2 does, it just uses Cirrus' headphone algorythm for the output while the original DSS licensed a different Dolby product, "Dolby Headphone," for _it's_ output.
> ...


 
  
 The DSS2 is £15 on Amazon at the moment. I've seen a few of the original DSS' on eBay, but it's not always easy buying from eBay when you live in Ireland. I'll keep my eye out. For £15, either the DSS1 or DSS2 would be a nice addition, even if I did still want to pick up something better as well later on. And it would be nice to experience virtual 7.1 for films like Looper and Saving Private Ryan.


----------



## Darkangelpt

Guys. My modmic v4 arrived today. 
I tried different ways to put the mic. 
But it's not optimal. 
Anyone of you found a good way to put them on akg q701?


----------



## Evshrug

£15 is a good price! Again, I haven't heard the DSS2 myself, but I've read good thins and it should at least be quite good for your purposes.

I've seen a lot of people attach a mod mic to the larger outer circle of the earcup, right on the grilles but aligned with the headphone cable so they could coil the cables together.


----------



## Blze001

darkangelpt said:


> Guys. My modmic v4 arrived today.
> I tried different ways to put the mic.
> But it's not optimal.
> Anyone of you found a good way to put them on akg q701?


 
  
 Lemme take a picture of what I did with mine when I get home, I had to change how the mic bends, but it works well.


----------



## Darkangelpt

blze001 said:


> Lemme take a picture of what I did with mine when I get home, I had to change how the mic bends, but it works well.




That's always good to see some ideas. 
No matter where u put it. It get stuck somewhere. 
I like to switch them from mouth area to the top. Like my sennheiser game one


----------



## Blze001

darkangelpt said:


> That's always good to see some ideas.
> No matter where u put it. It get stuck somewhere.


 
  
 Not the best pictures, but you should get the idea. The boom basically makes a 90 degree downward turn and runs along the cable plug.
  

  

  
  


> Originally Posted by *Darkangelpt* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I like to switch them from mouth area to the top. Like my sennheiser game one


 
  
 The boom will clear if you flip it up, but the part that I bent down kind of juts out a little. My desk has a few bolts on the side that are the perfect size to serve as a storage point for the mic, so I never flip mine up, but if you got creative with the bends you could probably make it work.


----------



## Darkangelpt

J





blze001 said:


> Not the best pictures, but you should get the idea. The boom basically makes a 90 degree downward turn and runs along the cable plug.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SennheiserPLZ. Why does the need to have an unholy pleather headband padding while the ear pads are velour? Commit to one or the other, preferably velour. Some of us keep our hair scalp short, and a sweaty ass pleather headband is not my idea for comfort. The 558/PC360/Game One uses all velour. Should've done the same for the 598.


----------



## Darius510

So I picked up those Logitech G933s. They're the best and worst headset I've ever owned.
  
 Wireless signal is flawless. Sound is pretty good, although I still prefer the sound of the PLYR1s by a bit. It's still far better than anything Logitech has put out in the past, and I could totally live with it. Comfort is decent...a little heavy and tight, but nice large earcups and good isolation. Good build quality overall and I like the look of them. Lots of silly features like RGB lights, seriously who cares, but whatever.
  
 The mic is awesome IMO - it literally disappears into the headset. When you want to use it, you just fold it down and extend the wire, which holds its place perfectly.. If it's muted a red light comes on, and the amount of sidetone is customizable. Sounds nice and clear too. Really great job overall on the mic.
  
 The best part by far is the DTS Headphone X. Compared to DH and SBX, it has far more convincing rear/side cues. Way better than any other virtual surround I've ever heard. You have some control over the "room", and the first person shooter preset is pretty dry sounding with crystal clear positioning around you. Seriously I wish I could just buy headphone X software on it's own, or there was at least one other decent headset that used it. I really don't want to go back to DH or SBX.
  
 Now here's where it gets ugly - there's a driver bug that forces the headphones to appear to windows as stereo only, not 5.1/7.1. That means the vast majority of games won't output the 6/8 channels needed to do true virtual surround. The only game I ever heard the VS work properly is CS:GO, where you can force 5.1 in game. The DTSX sounded awesome in it. Everything else was just expanded stereo, and sounded like garbage. Normally I'd assume that's something that will be fixed promptly, but judging by the Logitech forums this has been an issue for months. And not only for the G933, but their software for the past few months has killed VS across the board for their entire lineup. And they're not even fully acknowledging the problem. It's completely and utterly baffling that it's gone on that long - it's like NVidia releasing a GPU that cant do 3d acceleration. I don't even have the proper words for how ridiculous this situation is.
  
 So...it's a well built, pretty good sounding headset with a great mic and by far the best virtual surround (for my ears at least)...and under no circumstances should anyone even consider it for a second, until that bug is fixed. They've got a week before I return it and write them off forever, and I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## st0neh

Yeah the Logitech Game Software bug has been super great fun for the past month or two, they've "fixed" it twice for foreign language Windows installs and neither fix did a damn thing, and they're basically ignoring everyone telling them that the issue also exists on English language Windows installs.
  
 I don't think any of their forum staff even realizes that the headsets are supposed to be detected as 7.1 devices in Windows, it's ridiculous.


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> Worth looking at the K7xx's on massdrop before you buy?
> 
> From all account's they're pretty much the Q701's, but with better bass and no headband bumps?
> 
> Which seem to be the 2 things you want to improve on with the 701's


 
 No way, with same/better sound stage with same/better accuracy? That would be amazing, then I will definately go for massdrop if thats the case 
  
 Currently Q701 are on sale on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004444OFK?keywords=q701&qid=1445598624&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2 for 179 usd.
 Does the mass drop easily reach a similiar price? or more? If more, how much more?
  
 Thanks in advanced. Definately will look more into the massdrop ones, cheers.


----------



## Diamondpact

"Using the same dynamic driver technology as the K702 65th Anniversary Edition, the open back headphones have been tweaked to deliver an extended frequency response and a wide, locationally specific soundstage that puts you closer to the source than most cans. The highs were boosted by an innovative flat-wire voice coil, the mids were brought up to better balance the range, and the lows were jacked up by 3 dB for fully immersive sound imaging. To make sure that the channels are synced up and well-balanced, each transducer is individually tested and paired to a transducer with the closest possible sound signature. "
  
 -Massdrop K7XX edition
  
 Is it me or does this sound like its better than Q701 across the board? including positional accuracy, imaging and bass :O
  
 If someone can confirm my interpretations to be true, massdrop will be my hope then


----------



## raband

Yeah - they are that.
  
 I'd call them a 701 with the bass fixed.
  
 Closer to the 712's at half? the price
  
 They're a cheap packaging of a crowd improved product - what was bad with a good product has been fixed,
  
 In every way - no lumpy headband, awesome ear pads, huge soundstage, but with bass


----------



## conquerator2

I agree. The K7XX is crazy good for the price.


----------



## Darius510

st0neh said:


> Yeah the Logitech Game Software bug has been super great fun for the past month or two, they've "fixed" it twice for foreign language Windows installs and neither fix did a damn thing, and they're basically ignoring everyone telling them that the issue also exists on English language Windows installs.
> 
> I don't think any of their forum staff even realizes that the headsets are supposed to be detected as 7.1 devices in Windows, it's ridiculous.




Yeah I mean it's beyond incredible. I remember having a similar issue with the onboard sound on one of my old motherboards, and ASUS acted like they had no idea what I was talking about. Like I don't get it a all. How do you have a team of engineers create a product and not know the first and most important thing about how it's supposed to work? I can understand the ignorance from a motherboard vendor where sound is just an ancillary thing, but on a set of gaming headphones? And what kills me is that it still gets good reviews from all these places that can't even tell that it's not working right! What?

Anyway....is there any sound card, DAC or whatever with DTS headphone X on the horizon? I'm perfectly happy keeping the PLYRs, I just really want that feature. Dolby is too muddy, SBX is clear but the positioning isn't that well defined...but DTS had me almost jump out of my seat when I heard something behind me.


----------



## Diamondpact

now I'm HYPED, lol. Thanks for the information regarding the mass drop k7XX man, I can't wait to get them! haha, done deal. Any idea when the next drop will be?
  
 I really appreciate the alternative you provided where i see nothing to regret, thats rare haha. My entry into the midfi shall be soon complete and glorious :*D


----------



## Diamondpact

darius510 said:


> Yeah I mean it's beyond incredible. I remember having a similar issue with the onboard sound on one of my old motherboards, and ASUS acted like they had no idea what I was talking about. Like I don't get it a all. How do you have a team of engineers create a product and not know the first and most important thing about how it's supposed to work? I can understand the ignorance from a motherboard vendor where sound is just an ancillary thing, but on a set of gaming headphones? And what kills me is that it still gets good reviews from all these places that can't even tell that it's not working right! What?
> 
> Anyway....is there any sound card, DAC or whatever with DTS headphone X on the horizon? I'm perfectly happy keeping the PLYRs, I just really want that feature. Dolby is too muddy, SBX is clear but the positioning isn't that well defined...but DTS had me almost jump out of my seat when I heard something behind me.


 

 Thats some good information to learn, i didn't know dolby was muddy,  going to have to gook for another competitive alternative for positional ques  So DTS is the way to go for competitive/immersive gameplay? I haven't heard of DTS headphone X, is that a newer revision of dts? Im kinda noobish in the competitive/audiophile industry lol. I was the guy who though astro a50 were beast for competitive gaming till i started researching into audiophile gear n then this thread haha.


----------



## Diamondpact

apparently i missed the drop by 2 days :*( my luck never ceases to amaze me haha. I hope the next drop won't be too far away.


----------



## Darius510

diamondpact said:


> Thats some good information to learn, i didn't know dolby was muddy,  going to have to gook for another competitive alternative for positional ques  So DTS is the way to go for competitive/immersive gameplay? I haven't heard of DTS headphone X, is that a newer revision of dts? Im kinda noobish in the competitive/audiophile industry lol. I was the guy who though astro a50 were beast for competitive gaming till i started researching into audiophile gear n then this thread haha.




DTS headphone X is the DTS's alternative to Dolby headphone. It's relatively new. Maybe muddy isn't the right word to describe DH. It's not as clearly defined. The simulated side/rear speakers sound relatively distant and there's a lot of reverb mixed in from the virtual room. This isn't wrong per se - it's exactly what you'd want for movies but IMO it's not optimal for games. It's not bad, it's just not as good as it could be. On the G933s DTS lets you select between a mode similar to Dolby, but also includes a mode with virtual speakers that are much closer and clearly defined, with much less room interaction. It's much easier to precisely locate sounds around you. 

But the only way currently that I know of to get DTS headphone X is built in to turtle beach headsets that sound like absolute trash, or the aforementioned Logitech headset that doesn't work correctly and it's unclear if it ever will. 

Now that I've heard DTSHPX I don't really want to use DH anymore, but since there isn't any way to bring it to your own headphones...ugh. Hopefully someone fixes that soon.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

diamondpact said:


> apparently i missed the drop by 2 days :*( my luck never ceases to amaze me haha. I hope the next drop won't be too far away.


 

 I managed to get in at the last minute, but I wasn't too concerned if I missed it as I knew there would always be second-hand ones up for sale. And you shouldn't have to worry about unfair mark-ups as Head-Fi seemingly has rules against that.


----------



## Blze001

angrygoldfish said:


> I managed to get in at the last minute, but I wasn't too concerned if I missed it as I knew there would always be second-hand ones up for sale. And you shouldn't have to worry about unfair mark-ups as Head-Fi seemingly has rules against that.


 
  
 Yeah, and forum members know generally what's a fair price for something, so odds are someone will raise a flag if they see someone jacking the $ up.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

blze001 said:


> Yeah, and forum members know generally what's a fair price for something, so odds are someone will raise a flag if they see someone jacking the $ up.


 
  
 Unfortunately that doesn't happen in the guitar world. Guys buy expensive effects pedals that have a waiting list, increase the wait time artificially—and in turn the demand—then sell the pedals for a premium once they receive them from the manufacturer. They might play it for a few hours, but ultimately it'll quickly up on the forums or eBay within 24 hours. Someone who is desperate enough and doesn't want to wait will pay. It's not necessarily immoral; it's more irritating.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People seem to forget that if you gain something, you lose something else. In the case of the Q701 vs Annie/7XX, you gain bass and warmth at the expense of less clearly defined details, and a soundstage that sounds more congested due to the added thickness in detals. The soundstage size is comparable, but there is less virtual space due to the change in tone. So no, the Q701 isn't completely beaten. Anyone with bass mods or Annies/7XX tell you different, they're in denial and under the influence of expectation bias.

The Q701 untouched is still gonna be more detailed. But I'll take the slight loss for the addition of warmth/less fatigue, and choose the latter two any day of the week over the Q701. This is a case where pros outweigh the cons.


----------



## Diamondpact

@Darius510 Nice, thanks all for the info, can't wait for DTS Headphone X implementation to headfi headphones. Agreed i hated my logitech g930 as well, i always was unable to accurately tell where people were. Thanks for the clarification.
  
 Whats a reasonable price for second hand k7xx mass drop edition? I might buy it second hand if the mass drop will take too long. Only downside is no warranty . How long does the mass drop take between k7xx headphone runs?
  
@Mad Lust Envy Thanks for the further clarification. So it is better in almost every way(comfort and fun with fuller sound), but losses a little of the competitive edge due to more sound distraction present compared to the q701. correct? Then ill definitely take the k7xx mass drop! What if i lower bass eq just a bit for times when i feel really competitive? Would it give it back its competitive positional ques or even more than the q701 and turn it back to normal for immersion times?
  
 Thanks in advanced, finally tying things together and how they work haha


----------



## Diamondpact

Man, i just realized headfi community is one of the most helpful community I've come across. Thats rare haha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Had to return the Jaybird X2. I really just can't handle in ears, even with the comfy comply tips. This severely limits my choices for wireless on the go stuff. I like neckband wireless deigns, but need one to sit properly on my ears. The Motorola one didn't so I lost all the SQ...

There's a bunch of others, but they're all no name brands and quite cheap, which terrifies me.

I don't wanna blind purchase something that won't sit right on the ears, or that is pure rubbish.

A shame, the Motorola one was very comfortable.


----------



## Diamondpact

mad lust envy said:


> Had to return the Jaybird X2. I really just can't handle in ears, even with the comfy comply tips. This severely limits my choices for wireless on the go stuff. I like neckband wireless deigns, but need one to sit properly on my ears. The Motorola one didn't so I lost all the SQ...
> 
> There's a bunch of others, but they're all no name brands and quite cheap, which terrifies me.
> 
> ...


 

 damn, that sucks to hear, I had a good in ear set as well, forgot the name. Lost one of the in ear pads . They were really comfortable because they went deep in they ear n provided decent sound. They had 3 stages like these 
 http://evolver.fm/2012/03/20/when-earbuds-attack-a-cautionary-tale-with-a-horrifying-photo/
  
 the sound quality was nice n i was able to work out without them constantly falling off, though this article made me skepticle of such a design. Though it won't be a big deal if you notice a missing piece


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have very sensitive ears, so I would definitely feel that inside my ear canal, lol.

That's smething I know I'll never have to deal with, since I find the 3 stage tips terrible for comfort (Had a set of Hifiman REOs with it. I sold my REOs pretty fast.

I'm pretty much batting 0% with IEMs. And as I stated a few days ago, the only ones I liked are the JVC Marshmallows which felt like I was wearing nothing, but sounded really muddy. They needed a lot of EQ.

I may actually look into those again. They cost like $15, so not a big deal...though it defeats the purpose of me not wanting wired headphones.

Hell the Marshmallows are good enough to buy just to steal the tips and use them for something better. Perhaps I should've bought some memory foam tips for the X2, since the regular foam ones werent working for me. Oh well. It really is just an issue with the tips... so now I think I may have jumped the gun in returning them. Perhaps I'll rebuy them some other time and try again with some other tips..


----------



## Diamondpact

haha so true, i was debating if i should mention that or not. Ya, they dig in pretty deep and can be uncomfortable for some. Thats a good idea u mentioned, borrowing the buds u like for different set.


----------



## conquerator2

So, a sort of OT question.
 This goes to the streamers out there - I am having trouble figuring out a way to keep a loud and consistent tone going when playing. Somewhat uneven but I certainly blame that on inexperience more than anything [been like 2 months since I started].
 This is not an issue when just recording footage as these things can be satisfactorily fixed in Audacity [I usually normalize, apply some compression, soft limiter and normalize again, which works well for me].
 But without doing that, the recording would just be too silent and uneven.
 I wonder how many guys, be it recorded gameplay or streamers, get their voice so loud... I guess they just compress and limit the schiit out of it or they just have more practice and keep an even pace.
 Anyway, any tips or tricks appreciated! I'd like to switch to streaming and then just uploading to YT as recording and editing takes lots of time [if I made any money out of it it'd be fine but as it stands editing is just too time consuming].
 I just need to get the output louder on the fly but I am not quite sure what to change to make it that way.
 I record either through OBS or Avermedia software, always calibrate my preamp properly [I use a nice AT mic. Love it!], yet the 'raw' commentary always comes out too quiet [anywhere in the 26 - 3dB range at parts depending on loudness] vs [12 - 2dB after editing]. Those are just example numbers.
 I do need to work on my voice as well, that I know


----------



## Yethal

Hardware audio balancer with separate game and chat input?


----------



## Helvetica bold

Im sure this is re tread but can the PS4 and Xbox One output 7.1 from optical? I see conflicting reports. 
 I have the Mixamp 5.8 TX just wondering if that can accept 7.1, Im pretty sure it can. Just don't know of the
 consoles suport it for sure. I just took the TX out of storage I never used it all that much but I have to admit its
 pretty great.


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> Im sure this is re tread but can the PS4 and Xbox One output 7.1 from optical? I see conflicting reports.
> I have the Mixamp 5.8 TX just wondering if that can accept 7.1, Im pretty sure it can. Just don't know of the
> consoles suport it for sure. I just took the TX out of storage I never used it all that much but I have to admit its
> pretty great.


 
 Nothing can output true 7.1 through optical as it doesn't have enough bandwidth for that. However, one can use Dolby Pro Logic IIz to encode the addditional two channels in a 5.1 signal for an almost-like-true-7.1. And yes, consoles do support that. However the additional two channels do not make much of a difference in virtual surround anyway.


----------



## cmclnd

Are there any headsets of similar quality to AKG K702 for Dolby gaming of a lower price point? How do the Superlux's compare to the K702s? I had a pair of K702s, but sold them last year when I switched from PC to console gaming. I'm considering getting another, but since finding this forum I figured I might ask around before I make any such purchase.
  
 For my build I plan to run a Magni 2 Amp, an Astro A40 TR PS4 Mixamp, and either K702s, Superlux's, or something within that range, but within a reasonable price point. I'd be willing to spend up to around $400, but if I can find a solid headpiece on the cheap, that'd be wonderful. Price isn't too much of an issue, but I don't want to just spend unreasonably. Those Superlux's are looking pretty at $40. I've read nothing but good things about them so far.
  
 This setup is for a Playstation 4. I primarily play FPS games, namely Call of Duty.
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Diamondpact

hmm, while I wait for the mass drop, what do u guys think of Supberlux HD681 eve vs astro a50? i already have a dedicated mic


----------



## Sam21

diamondpact said:


> hmm, while I wait for the mass drop, what do u guys think of Supberlux HD681 eve vs astro a50? i already have a dedicated mic


 
 I recently bought the Evo, the bass is present and very well controlled, the mids and treble are fine too. soundstage is also great, my only complaint is the fit, It doesn't fit perfectly on my big head.


----------



## raband

You'd be paying almost as much for the Astro as you are for the K7xx wouldn't you?
  
 And it'd only be a temporary unit while you wait?
  
 If I had to make the choice I'd look at something like the Koss's or a cheap closed can, so at the end of the day you'd have 2 totally different headphones that do what they do well - and each would still have a place moving fowrard.


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> You'd be paying almost as much for the Astro as you are for the K7xx wouldn't you?
> 
> And it'd only be a temporary unit while you wait?
> 
> If I had to make the choice I'd look at something like the Koss's or a cheap closed can, so at the end of the day you'd have 2 totally different headphones that do what they do well - and each would still have a place moving fowrard.


 

 my bad, forgot to mention my current headset is the astro a50, but was wondering how the superlux 681 evo stand against the astro a50 headset. Would it be better than the astro a50? Cuz gaming headsets are usually bad n the astro are closed back. the super lux are cheap upgrade and seemed to be highly regarded till the mass drop 7XX event in 2-3 months. I'm hoping less than 2 months. I was wondering,would those be an upgrade compared to the astro a50 in terms of positional accuracy, soundstage and imaging?


----------



## Diamondpact

I am open to any other cheap alternative better than the superlux 681 evo, while being better than the a50 till the mass drop.


----------



## Yethal

diamondpact said:


> I am open to any other cheap alternative better than the superlux 681 evo, while being better than the a50 till the mass drop.



Aurvana Live?


----------



## raband

I actually wrote CAL's instead of Koss's, but deleted it to go with something more different from the Astro's


----------



## Diamondpact

yethal said:


> Aurvana Live?


 

 nice, they r on sale atm, hows their soundstage and positional accuracy for competitive gameplay compared to the a50(which i have) and the superlux 681 evo?


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> I actually wrote CAL's instead of Koss's, but deleted it to go with something more different from the Astro's


 

 cheers, taking a lot into them!


----------



## cmclnd

raband said:


> You'd be paying almost as much for the Astro as you are for the K7xx wouldn't you?
> 
> And it'd only be a temporary unit while you wait?
> 
> If I had to make the choice I'd look at something like the Koss's or a cheap closed can, so at the end of the day you'd have 2 totally different headphones that do what they do well - and each would still have a place moving fowrard.


 
 Hey, man! I'm only getting the mixamp, not the headset combo.


----------



## raband

cmclnd said:


> Hey, man! I'm only getting the mixamp, not the headset combo.


 
  
  
 Sorry - I was responding to diamondpact's comment/query


----------



## cmclnd

raband said:


> Sorry - I was responding to diamondpact's comment/query


 
  
 Oh, sorry about that.


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> I actually wrote CAL's instead of Koss's, but deleted it to go with something more different from the Astro's


 

 interesting, I will look into those as well. What do you guys think? are the hd 681 eve an upgrade or side grade from the astro a50, in terms of competitive fps gaming and sound quality?


----------



## Diamondpact

yethal said:


> Aurvana Live?


 

 I looked into those and they are on sale, sweet. What do u guys think? Aurvana live vs superlux 681 evo for my taste? Or r my astro a50 still better than them? (competitive fps gaming with immersive single player games as well)
  
 Thanks in advanced


----------



## raband

If I was you I'd stick with the A50's that you have for the time being rather than spend any cash for the short term.
  
 If you already have them and they work - mixing and matching on the cheap is more going to be a side-grade, not an upgrade.


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> If I was you I'd stick with the A50's that you have for the time being rather than spend any cash for the short term.
> 
> If you already have them and they work - mixing and matching on the cheap is more going to be a side-grade, not an upgrade.




Kk, sounds good. Thanks for the help. I shall hold out till the next mass drop n make do with my current setup till then. Cheers. 

I regret falling for the gaming headset nonsense twice haha. G930 long ago n then Astro a50 last year. Haha, these days, there's more misinformation than the truth for any kind of topic. For example, healthy eating.


----------



## raband

1 last question - what are you going to be driving the headphones from?
  
 Whatever it is - someone will be able to say if it's up for the AKG's or not (never bothered asking as it was the Q701's? you were getting intially


----------



## lilboozy

Do you need a mixamp if you get the Skullcandy PLYR?


----------



## MattKelly

@Evshrug Hey, bud. What are your thoughts on whether or not the Creative G5 will be able to output voice chat for daisy chaining?


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> 1 last question - what are you going to be driving the headphones from?
> 
> Whatever it is - someone will be able to say if it's up for the AKG's or not (never bothered asking as it was the Q701's? you were getting intially




I currently have the schiit magni 2 uber/modi 2 uber stacks getting audio through toslinq pass through from pc into the stack.

Those should be enough to drive most headphones while providing good audio right?

Yup, Q701's were my initial choice among the many choices I decided on getting. Then I looked into the mass drop ones you mentioned and their reviews, definately want those now haha.


----------



## lenroot77

Speaking of creative and their new line of gaming headsets... 




I get the marketing angle they are going for "hip" and "slightly sexual" ... But these "girls" smh... Ugh


----------



## Diamondpact

lenroot77 said:


> Speaking of creative and their new line of gaming headsets...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 haha, know what u mean. personally, I'm tired of the general consensus thinking all gamers are mindless perverts and will flock over to companies that show women.. same trend in games too over sexualizing women.(steel string armor.. sigh)


----------



## lenroot77

diamondpact said:


> haha, know what u mean. personally, I'm tired of the general consensus thinking all gamers are mindless perverts and will flock over to companies that show women.. same trend in games too over sexualizing women.(steel string armor.. sigh)




I mean at least if they are going to go that route find some attractive girls?!? These chicks look very rough imo.


----------



## Evshrug

mattkelly said:


> @Evshrug
> Hey, bud. What are your thoughts on whether or not the Creative G5 will be able to output voice chat for daisy chaining?



I'm basing a lot of my expectations for the G5 off of the design of the E5. The E5 has a line out... But I don't think it's configurable to just send voice out while game and chat go to headphones. However, with my PS4, I can have the USB port set to receive chat and send voice, from that I extrapolate that a USB hub could theoretically skip consoles and exclusively be dedicated for chat. That said, I don't know of such a device, it would be a product separate from the G5.

So basically, same answer as before. The Astro's built-in LAN chat chaining is pretty purpose-built (read: niche and rarely used) and unique... You probably could get the same/similar results with a mixing board but I wouldn't know which to recommend as I've never had to research it.

Speaking of research, what has your research into this issue found?


----------



## cmclnd

I know this isn't exactly headfphone related, but I got a Mixamp, Magni 2, and AKG K702s and now I need a 3.5mm microphone. I'd prefer a condenser, but can't seem to find one that I am certain will work plugged into the Mixamp. Any suggestions?
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## GeneraLight

Not headphone related, but would using an amp or DAC create audio lag when hooked up to a Wii U or 3DS? Not sure if I should go for a headphone that doesn't need an amp/DAC or go for a better headphone that will sound better with an amp/DAC.
  
 Audio lag is important here. Would amps and DACs create  it?


----------



## Diamondpact

lenroot77 said:


> I mean at least if they are going to go that route find some attractive girls?!? These chicks look very rough imo.


 

 True that haha.


----------



## Diamondpact

generalight said:


> Not headphone related, but would using an amp or DAC create audio lag when hooked up to a Wii U or 3DS? Not sure if I should go for a headphone that doesn't need an amp/DAC or go for a better headphone that will sound better with an amp/DAC.
> 
> Audio lag is important here. Would amps and DACs create  it?


 

 Unless you look for it using oscilloscopes, you won't notice the lag. Would be very very small.
  
 Personally i have the audio going through my sound card through into doc/amp n don't notice any lag when i use my bros headphone. Although if one tries really hard to notice any lag, you either will barely notice it or will get a placebo effect thinking you notice it because it'll be so small
  
 After all, lags always present in any task, just the magnitude is what matters.
  
 Someone correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## YamaVega

How does the D2000 compare to D7000 in gaming?


----------



## Yethal

generalight said:


> Not headphone related, but would using an amp or DAC create audio lag when hooked up to a Wii U or 3DS? Not sure if I should go for a headphone that doesn't need an amp/DAC or go for a better headphone that will sound better with an amp/DAC.
> 
> Audio lag is important here. Would amps and DACs create  it?



There is some but it's measured in nanoseconds so no worries here.



cmclnd said:


> I know this isn't exactly headfphone related, but I got a Mixamp, Magni 2, and AKG K702s and now I need a 3.5mm microphone. I'd prefer a condenser, but can't seem to find one that I am certain will work plugged into the Mixamp. Any suggestions?



See the first post of this thread.


----------



## cmclnd

yethal said:


> There is some but it's measured in nanoseconds so no worries here.
> See the first post of this thread.


 
 Those all seem to be boom mics. Looking for a desktop condenser 3.5mm mic that will work with the Mixamp. If it exists...
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Yethal

cmclnd said:


> Those all seem to be boom mics. Looking for a desktop condenser 3.5mm mic that will work with the Mixamp. If it exists...




Desktop mics tend to come with either XLR input or with built in ADC and USB input. Desktop condenser is highly unlikely. Unless You count the ModMic which is an electret mic.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



https://soundcloud.com/bjorn-akesson/the-bjorn-akesson-podcast-episode-003


 Give this a try!


----------



## cmclnd

yethal said:


> Desktop mics tend to come with either XLR input or with built in ADC and USB input. Desktop condenser is highly unlikely. Unless You count the ModMic which is an electret mic.


 
  
 This is the one I just nabbed. Should get it by Wednesday.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0140ZEDB2/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1A1AHRSYJ96SD&coliid=I3S24RVM9EVZ9Z&psc=1
  
 Not sure if it'll work with the mixamp. I'll give it a shot and report back in case anyone else ever has the same pursuit.
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Evshrug

generalight said:


> Audio lag is important here. Would amps and DACs create it?



Basically, no, but a TV might and thus get the audio out of sync. Your 3DS would only be able to be connected to an Amp, and you wouldn't have any latency issues.




cmclnd said:


> I know this isn't exactly headfphone related, but I got a Mixamp, Magni 2, and AKG K702s and now I need a 3.5mm microphone. I'd prefer a condenser, but can't seem to find one that I am certain will work plugged into the Mixamp. Any suggestions?



I bought a 3-pack of Neweer brand lapel Mics off of amazon, worked great. They have a clip for your shirt/lapel, but obviously you could clip them to a stand/glued-together-tongue-depressors if you want. It was like $3, but sounded good, especially when I used a system that let me control the gain (input volume).


----------



## Sam21

for the XLR desktop Mics you need these : 
  
 (1) A Microphone like this : 
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2020-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B0006H92QK/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1445883290&sr=1-1&keywords=at2020
  
 (2) A phantom power supply like this :
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-PS400-BEHRINGER-MICROPOWER/dp/B000FG795I/ref=sr_1_5?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1445883335&sr=1-5&keywords=phantom+power+supply
  
 (3) Two cables :
  
 XLR male to female :
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sendt-Female-Microphone-cable-24AWG/dp/B00EPMXWNQ/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1445883410&sr=1-3-spons&keywords=XLR+cable&psc=1
  
 XLR female to 3.5mm TRS:
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-XVM-115F-Microphone-Cable-Right-Angle/dp/B000068NZF/ref=sr_1_8?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1445883510&sr=1-8&keywords=hosa+XLR+female+to+TRS
  
 (4) and of course, a nice ADC like the one in Creative X7.


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> for the XLR desktop Mics you need these :
> 
> (1) A Microphone like this :
> 
> ...


 
 That is an amazingly complicated way of connecting a microphone to the Mixamp. Kudos sir.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> I'm basing a lot of my expectations for the G5 off of the design of the E5. The E5 has a line out... But I don't think it's configurable to just send voice out while game and chat go to headphones. However, with my PS4, I can have the USB port set to receive chat and send voice, from that I extrapolate that a USB hub could theoretically skip consoles and exclusively be dedicated for chat. That said, I don't know of such a device, it would be a product separate from the G5.
> 
> So basically, same answer as before. The Astro's built-in LAN chat chaining is pretty purpose-built (read: niche and rarely used) and unique... You probably could get the same/similar results with a mixing board but I wouldn't know which to recommend as I've never had to research it.
> 
> Speaking of research, what has your research into this issue found?


 
 Thanks so much for getting back to me. Truthfully, my research hasn't led me to much, other than if you don't want to spend a pretty penny and lug extra hardware around - settle for the MixAmp (*sigh*). Really crossing my fingers that Creative steps up to the plate and gives Astro a run for their money here. They have everything going for them (in my book) if they can just ensure daisy chaining capability. Better yet, I'd love it if I could daisy chain a G5 with several MixAmps, just in case my teammates don't have the G5 as well. My K7XX should be here tomorrow and I'd really like to not have to buy an additional amp to use with the MixAmp - the G5 just seems like an all in one package (and with SBX over DH - which I like!).


----------



## Eddga

Hey guys,
  
 I just received my Astro Mixamp Pro (2010 - A40) plus a pair of Sennheiser HD595 cans. I bought all the wires (as I ordered these in used condition and they were delivered without any cables or accessories), connected everything and tested it. I must say that I'm somehow disappointed as I upgraded from my 7 years old Creative Fatality MK II to those. I do own a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium PCIe which I connected everything to (Onboard sound is disabled in BIOS as unused).
 I wanted to get a Amp as the soundcard doesn't have a headphone amplifier and I always had to connect the headphone together with the front speakers via a crappy splitter to the green connector. Now there are several problems which disappoint me in the first line as I dunno if I'm doin something wrong.
 I connected the Mixamp via TOSLINK to my Titanium, enabled DDL, set it to 5.1, set the default output device to the soundcard (not the mixamp), set CS:GO to 5.1.
 (Everything is referred to gaming / competitive)
 1) There seems to be no difference between front and rear sounds, only can differentiate between right and left (so no 5.1 only 2.1)
 2) Sound is much more accurate, clearer and detailed when I connect the phones directly to the soundcard (analog and without MixAmp) and X-Fi CMSS 3D (there I also get front and rear sounds clearly seperated)
 So what am I doing wrong here? Should I try to connect the TOSLINK to my onboard soundcard Realtek ALC892 which obviously also is capable of DDL with custom drivers?
  
 Thanks in advance.
Greetings,
Eddga


----------



## cmclnd

sam21 said:


> for the XLR desktop Mics you need these :
> 
> (1) A Microphone like this :
> 
> ...


 
  
 NOTE (Edit): This suggestion DID NOT WORK. Please disregard it, see my edit for details!
  
 Saving this. Thanks a bunch, Sam21. Not really ready to spend $140 on a mic setup at this point in time, but I may in a month or so. This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. A working condenser mic setup with a 3.5mm to use with my Astro Mixamp Pro TR for PS4.
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Yethal

Why would You even use a Mixamp with a PC? DDL is a standard used for consoles and that is only because we don't have any HDMI external soundcards. For PC always go with either internal or USB soundcard.


----------



## cmclnd

yethal said:


> Why would You even use a Mixamp with a PC? DDL is a standard used for consoles and that is only because we don't have any HDMI external soundcards. For PC always go with either internal or USB soundcard.


 
  
 I was wondering the same thing, but didn't want to say it.
  
 If you're using the Mixamp on PC exclusively, return it and get your money back. If it's a solution for a console that you're also using for PC, it might be a workable temporary solution, but I recommend buying a sound card.


----------



## Sam21

cmclnd said:


> Saving this. Thanks a bunch, Sam21. Not really ready to spend $140 on a mic setup at this point in time, but I may in a month or so. This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. A working condenser mic setup with a 3.5mm to use with my Astro Mixamp Pro TR for PS4.


 
 well yeah, it becomes expensive specially when you add in a microphone stand and a pop filter both of which are optional. the AT2020 comes with a stand, I use a goose-neck stand which has more height. There are cheaper but in the same tier microphones like this : 
  
 this one has three pickup patterns and has dual diaphragm while the AT is cardioid only and has one diaphragm. :
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-C-3-BEHRINGER/dp/B000KUA8EI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445894596&sr=8-1&keywords=behringer+C3
  
 but the AT, According to some, produces the better sound.


----------



## cmclnd

sam21 said:


> well yeah, it becomes expensive specially when you add in a microphone stand and a pop filter both of which are optional. the AT2020 comes with a stand, I use a goose-neck stand which has more height. There are cheaper but in the same tier microphones like this :
> 
> this one has three pickup patterns and has dual diaphragm while the AT is cardioid only and has one diaphragm. :
> 
> ...


 
  
 Would the stereo effect even work over the PS4 through the Mixamp? Like, would my party be able to tell whether I was speaking into the left or right side of the mic?
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Sam21

Microphones work in mono. The Mixamp's Mic-In is mono so there is no stereo effect. It would work like any other microphone but with way better clarity and much lower noise/hiss.
  
 When you listen to an MP3, you hear stereo because there were multiple microphones used to record and then the signals are mixed together into a two channel signal.
  
 the three Pickup patterns are just the way microphones pick up sound :
  
 Cardioid : Only pick up sounds in the front.
  
 Omnidirectional : pick up sounds from every point around the microphone.
  
 Figure 8: pick up sound  at the front and the back but not sides.
  
 Another Note: if you record two people singing in front of a microphone, then you can tell where each sound is coming from in the playback. it creates a soundstage with its own imaging but just in mono.
  
 that's why there is a cardiod mode which only picks up the front side So for gaming purposes a microphone with cardioid pick up pattern would suffice.


----------



## conquerator2

The AT mics have great external noise isolation. They pick up voice well. There's some proximity effect at play and the closer you are to the mic, the better and louder your voice will be [duh!].
 I am really happy with my AT mic. Picks up virtually zero noise. The Yeti picked up EVERYTHING...


----------



## Sam21

" The Yeti picked up EVERYTHING"
  
 ​was it set to cardioid mode when it was picking up everything ?


----------



## Eddga

cmclnd said:


> I was wondering the same thing, but didn't want to say it.
> 
> If you're using the Mixamp on PC exclusively, return it and get your money back. If it's a solution for a console that you're also using for PC, it might be a workable temporary solution, but I recommend buying a sound card.


 
  
 Huh.. That kinda stuns me now. Whenever I read this thread (and I really spent some time now doing so) I always just thought of PC gaming when talking about gaming. And I really didn't read the intro where this would have been brought out pretty clearly.. Didn't feel so dumb for a long time. 
 Whatever - I can't return the MixAmp as I bought it in used condition via ebay on a private auction for just 15 €. So I only could resell it. I really hope that the Sennheiser HD595 weren't a bad choice for PC gaming either, while I couldn't imagine how this really could make a difference though, whether the phone is used on PC or console.
 So would you also say that DACs and Amps wouldn't be of any use for PC Gaming? Maybe just better buy a soundcard that offers a separate Headphone-Amp jack?


----------



## Yethal

eddga said:


> Huh.. That kinda stuns me now. Whenever I read this thread (and I really spent some time now doing so) I always just thought of PC gaming when talking about gaming. And I really didn't read the intro where this would have been brought out pretty clearly.. Didn't feel so dumb for a long time.
> Whatever - I can't return the MixAmp as I bought it in used condition via ebay on a private auction for just 15 €. So I only could resell it. I really hope that the Sennheiser HD595 weren't a bad choice for PC gaming either, while I couldn't imagine how this really could make a difference though, whether the phone is used on PC or console.
> So would you also say that DACs and Amps wouldn't be of any use for PC Gaming? Maybe just better buy a soundcard that offers a separate Headphone-Amp jack?


 
 Yeah, well MLE isn't really secretive about being a console gamer. It's literally written all over this thread.
 As for the HD595 You should be fine with them.
 DACs and AMPs can be useful in PC gaming, most internal soundcards is able to send the encoded two channel signal (with virtual surround already baked in) through S/PDIF output to an external DAC and AMP so they do have some merit in gaming.


----------



## raband

I used the mixamp on my lappy for ages Saved me from buying another bit of hardware just for the lappy.
 There's better PC options out there, but you won't need to hurry.
  
 HD598 will be fine with whatever you throw it at,
  
 You'd only need to look for a separate AMP if you wanted to drive a more demanding headphone than the HD598
  
 Whatever solution you end up with will be the DAC (and AMP)


----------



## Evshrug

The Mixamp is a DSP, DAC, and amp. The X-Fi titanium sound card is also a DSP, DAC, and amp. As far as audio quality goes, that would be motherboard
While there seem to be more options as you go up in price, unfortunately many of the separates lack the ingredient particularly valuable to gamers, the DSP (digital signal processor). Unless you are one of the unfortunate few who the surround effect from a proper setup doesn't work, a DSP makes a significant leap in immersion and (after you train yourself to it) awareness. Fortunately for PC players, if you get a mid or high tier PCI or USB sound card, you can still use it's DSP but use the optical out to send that processed digital signal to your choice of DAC/amp.

Starting with a sound card is definitely pretty good, as I have heard a Magni and an Omni side-by-side and had also two friends vet in their own time, compare and decide that they sound about the same on a technical quality level, but it's nice to know that you can use the line-out to connect to an upgraded amp or optical and connect to a DAC that would surpass what is offered in sound cards while still being able to use the DSP in the sound card.

Console gamers like Mad and me (most of the time) are jealous of the PC world's ability to get a cheap all-in-one DSP/DAC/Amp which can later on be part of an upgrade path. The most frustrating point so far was the Sound Blaster X7 which can get surround from a console's optical output, and looked really promising because the X7 includes an optical out too... but it's just a passthrough, the X7 (as of today) cannot decode Dolby, process headphone surround from that, and send the processed audio out through that optical output to a hi-fi headphone system.

That said, the X7 is pretty good itself and the best all-in-one DSP/DAC/amp setup I've heard under $1000. Look for bundle purchases that include a little USB Bluetooth transmitter. I sincerely hope Creative's G5 can do what the E5 does, but adds Dolby decoding (or better) and a processed optical output to the console crowd, as has been available for PC gamers for a decade or more.


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> I sincerely hope Creative's G5 can do what the E5 does, but adds Dolby decoding (or better) and a processed optical output to the console crowd, as has been available for PC gamers for a decade or more.


 
 RIGHT?!?! Gosh, an update on the G5 can't come soon enough. I want more info!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, November's soon.


----------



## conquerator2

sam21 said:


> " The Yeti picked up EVERYTHING"
> 
> ​was it set to cardioid mode when it was picking up everything ?


 
 Yup. 
 It's actually a common issue if you read some of the reviews 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 It is a good mic, but not suitable for a room with a moderate amount of external noise [fans, hum, any noises within the house].
 I recently used my AT mono mic to record a guest commentary [2 people] and it was pretty great. All the 'important bits' [well voice, even though we sat fairly far], 'atmospheric bits' [cap popping, decent movement] but recorded zero 'obnoxious bits' [basically PC/PS hum/noise].
 Excellent noise reduction all around too [I used speakers for that session, which were playing decently loud behind the mic and it only ever picked up the occasional bass frequency but otherwise nothing], almost too good honestly. I imagine the same applies to lower AT mics too [AT2020/2035 series] though I imagine getting an XLR version and a preamp is definitely preferable at that point...
 Yeti just picked up all the noise in my application and the AT picks up none. Plus, the clarity and realism of the AT mics, whatever it is they pick up, is superior in every way


----------



## Evshrug

^Well, I'd better not get one of those then, because sometimes I get the farts.


----------



## Fegefeuer

to *EU* members:
  
  
*Fidelio X2 is about 205€ from Amazon.fr*


----------



## Diamondpact

is it possible to get my astro a50 wireless transmitter mixamp to work on my console for a different headphone that has a 3.5mm jack?
  
 I want to find some use for it or imma have to sell my astro a50 with the wireless transmitter mixamp lol.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, an Astro A50 is worthless without the transmitter, so if you're intending to sell one you should sell both anyway.

I'm not sure if the A50 transmitter has a wired output.


----------



## cmclnd

Alright, so apparently this Okeyn 3.5mm "Condenser" microphone DOES work when plugged directly into the Astro MixAmp Pro TR for PS4. The sound is a bit airy (my friends in party chat said it sounds like I'm in an empty room; acoustic sound), but it comes through loud and clear. No need for phantom power or anything.
  
 Amazon link to the Okeyn mic: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0140ZEDB2
  
 At only $15, it's a cheap, workable alternative to the setup Sam21 proposed.
  
 Sam21's setup, at the current Amazon prices, would run around $115. 
  
 I'll re-quote that exact setup below in the event anyone reading this workaround is also interested in eventually upgrading to a better sound/build quality microphone for the Astro Mixamp.
  


sam21 said:


> for the XLR desktop Mics you need these :
> 
> (1) A Microphone like this :
> 
> ...


 
  
 NOTE (Edit): This suggestion DID NOT WORK. Please disregard it, see my edit for details!
  
 This forum is absolutely amazing. I don't know that I'd ever have been as satisfied with my sound setup on PS4 as I am without all of you. Thank you all.
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Diamondpact

evshrug said:


> Well, an Astro A50 is worthless without the transmitter, so if you're intending to sell one you should sell both anyway.
> 
> I'm not sure if the A50 transmitter has a wired output.


 

 yup, thats my intention. If i have to sell, i have to sell the whole set, but ya there doesn't seem to be any for for that mixamp to connect to 3.5mm headphones


----------



## GeneraLight

What's the best amp to use with the AKG-K701 for consoles like the Wii U and 3DS?


----------



## Sam21

generalight said:


> What's the best amp to use with the AKG-K701 for consoles like the Wii U and 3DS?


 
 I personally like the O2, because of its lower noise.
  
 There are other options: look into schiit magni 2 uber and FiiO's portable amps.


----------



## bavinck

I like o2 too. It's on massdrop right now for a good price...


----------



## rudyae86

bavinck said:


> I like o2 too. It's on massdrop right now for a good price...


 
 I was part of the first drop and got a defective, sending it back tomorrow . Ill purchase rev.B this time since it has the input RCA in the back now though it cost like 10 or 15 dollars more but less clutter at the front I suppose.


----------



## raband

Love the swings and roundabouts.
  
 O2 was a breath of fresh air when it first was out - then went out of favour.
  
 Seems like it's stood the test of time and no longer "uncool" to be recognising it again.
  
 Damn tempted to grab the Rev B O2/ODAC off massdrop - the front clutter is an actual issue (the only one I have with the original unit I'm still using)
  
 That said - the smaller jack made it easy to hook up to the mixamp (straight 3.5mm cable) and anything else I had (3.5mm cable, or RCA-3.5mm cable) than the RCA one would.
  
 Think Laptops/phones/dac's without RCA out etc
  
 Actually - I think I just talked myself into getting the new one 
  
 Keep the old for the easy fix where required and use the new for the main desk (+$15 for the 1/4' jack and the RCA's)


----------



## conquerator2

The Rev B uses different chips. I see these as downgrades compared to the A on paper. They measure a teeny bit better but I think the brands they used previously were more acclaimed. IMO. Have not heard it but I am going by what a quick skim-through left me with. YMMV.
 The Schiit Vali is also a nice choice for the K7-- series though not as powerful. I'd personally pick that instead or something else that is also warmer and can produce a more enjoyable sound


----------



## Evshrug

"Best" amp... There are SO many options now, at pretty much any price point, that you can even factor in personal preference.

For awhile, FiiO was super popular for great sound at a budget... and they've improved most of their lineup, the E11k (portable) and E09k (desktop) are good choices, I enjoyed my E12 with my AKG (see my review in my signature) until I decided to switch to desktop tube amps.

Then the Objective2 (O2) became the flavor of hype amp. I've never listened to it because the designer created it with no stated objective other than, basically, trashing other amp manufacturers and stating that he could design an amp sounding better and costing less. Even the "Objective" name was saying it was engineered by numbers versus "all" the other amps which were tuned subjectively by ear. By all accounts of people who owned an O2, the numbers didn't lie and offered a breakthrough price/performance ratio, described as an amp that didn't take away from the performance of headphones (with the exception of the most notoriously difficult to drive), but didn't add anything to the sound either. The fame of this amp blossomed even more as reviewers used it's transparent-to-the-native-performance nature as a reference baseline when making their reviews... Almost like as if you wanted to be a reviewer, you had to get used to FLAC files of Pink Floyd, ObjectiveDAC, Objective2 amp, and a Sennheiser HD600, and then base any product reviews off of changing one component of that audio chain and comparing to the control. Very scientific. Very clinical. But at the end of the day, the bigger picture of why we buy this stuff is to enjoy music/audio, and flat isn't going to be interesting for everyone. Besides the design compromises for sound quality (wiring layout is a mess... Is it a portable, or a desktop? Not ideal for either!), if you read user impressions you'll see a lot of people that love it, but after the honeymoon period ended there were also a fair number of people who found it too dry and bare, or boring and moved on. When I was on the AKG Q701 thread, the majority wanted a different amp because the Q701 highs were too bright and analytical, but some people stuck to their guns that the O2 was a good linear paring but eventually they'd want a different headphone. I got to borrow an ODAC once, but for some reason it wouldn't work with my computer (and probably was the fault of my computer, but that was the only DAC ever not to work), I'd like to hear an O2 someday but at this point I'm past needing it.

Throughout the past year, Schiit gear has been hailed as great value amps, the magni and modi in particular as similar-sounding but cheaper to the O2+ODAC combo. Mad Lust Envy raved about the M&M stack... I forget which few headphones he used with them, but he did use a few. They still stand as great values, though again on the revealing/analytical/possibly bright sounding side of sonic signatures. I have a fellow Pittsburgh Head-Fi'er who has the modi, and he got the Vali instead of the Magni. Now, the Vali I really liked! Maybe a little detail was sacrificed, and the "EEeeeeeeee..." sound of the first 30-45 seconds of warm-up and any physical impact to the amp is real, but the humble amp is musical and fun to listen to. I wouldn't call the Vali an end-game amp, and Schiit definitely designed it as a gateway to audiophile gear, but A/B-ing it against my more expensive tube amp still had 98% of what made the music more enjoyable for me and was clearly a better value, making me look like I had overspent on my tube amp (though at the end of the day, I still love mine). With an AKG, soundstage is a little less wide but also less oval and more circular, sweetens the highs a bit, and IMO is a good pairing.

Right now, I'm having a good time using my Creative E5 with my AKG K612, it does for me what the FiiO E17 did for Mad Lust Envy as an amp but also as a flexible everyday device. It's like they took the features of the FiiO E17, added a few more (Bluetooth, noise-canceling mic, optical in and out, USB connection for smartphones), used the FiiO E12 amp but made it slightly warmer, and added SBX surround for PC/Mac users. For gamers, it's a definitely capable quality device that also solves all the setup issues you might have, except it can't decode a surround signal from a console. Either stick with stereo, or the upcoming G5 which is supposed to be like an E5 + Dolby decoding... The G5 looks like a replacement/upgrade to the Astro Mixamp all-around with better sound quality and no extra amping needed, though I suspect an XBone setup is stick going to be a PITA.

I've also read good amp impressions about Garage1217 amps, Little Dot amps, Emotiva, Cayin, and more. For couch/living room setups, I prefer portable amps because they're easy to put away and re-attach, and I often check out HEAD-Fi user ClieOS for his portable amp reviews. For desktop setups like mine, where you've got your computer, console, monitor, and desk space all right there, the sky's the limit and I prefer to have some awesome powerful (but bigger-sized) stuff.


----------



## cmclnd

Okay, so I got my Magni 2 in today and I've run into another issue. It seems I need some kind of adapter. Pardon my ignorance in all this.
  
 I have the 3.5mm headphone plugged into the Magni. However, the Magni only has a female RED/WHITE Stereo input in the rear. What exactly do I need to make this work? An A/V to 3.5mm adapter?
  
 Is there a specific adapter you guys would recommend?
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update (http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-31-2015-beyer-cop-and-shure-1540-added/32865#post_12073235) to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## Evshrug

cmclnd said:


> Okay, so I got my Magni 2 in today and I've run into another issue. It seems I need some kind of adapter. Pardon my ignorance in all this.
> 
> I have the 3.5mm headphone plugged into the Magni. However, the Magni only has a female RED/WHITE Stereo input in the rear. What exactly do I need to make this work? An A/V to 3.5mm adapter?
> 
> Is there a specific adapter you guys would recommend?




I'm trying to motivate myself to edit console/gear/headphone setup videos right now. A lot of people have questions about this, and reading doesn't make it clear enough for some people.

What are you trying to connect the Magni to?


----------



## cmclnd

evshrug said:


> I'm trying to motivate myself to edit console/gear/headphone setup videos right now. A lot of people have questions about this, and reading doesn't make it clear enough for some people.
> 
> What are you trying to connect the Magni to?


 
  
  
 Astro Mixamp Pro TR for PS4.
  
 EDIT: I've posted an update to my working setup for anyone looking for a similar setup. Just browse a few pages ahead or search through my posts to find the detailed setup guide.


----------



## GeneraLight

sam21 said:


> I personally like the O2, because of its lower noise.
> 
> There are other options: look into schiit magni 2 uber and FiiO's portable amps.


 
 Okay, I just bought the Objective2 Amplifier. Is there anything else that I need?


----------



## Diamondpact

Now im in a bind . I want to get a pci e ssd, but i noticed that if i add another thing, ill run out of pci e lanes. So ill have to remove my sound card if I go that route.. I have a cheap asus xonar sound card but i was using its toslinq optical out for my schiit stack.
  
 If I go the route of an external sound card with all the best features for competitive fps gaming (to hear footsteps and precise location) whats the best usb sound card do you guys recommend?
  
 Ill basically hook up my 5.1 logitech z906 speakers to it and through optical out to the schiit stack from there headphones for gaming. I basically want a feature rich sound card for gaming as the rest will get optical out.
  
 Also, will there be any noticeable latency through this route?
  
 Thanks in advanced


----------



## Evshrug

cmclnd said:


> Astro Mixamp Pro TR for PS4.




Oh, a 3.5mm headphone plug to RCA plug cable will do fine. Quite easy to find on Monoprice and Amazon. 3.5mm to RCA.


DiamondPact,
You're basically going to bypass everything but the DSP on whatever USB sound card you get, so it doesn't matter too much and spending more would be a waste of money. Get an Asus dongle if you prefer Dolby Headphone, and a Creative dongle if you prefer SBX surround. I used to use Creative's Omni, that has a headphone jack, microphone, optical out, and analog (unpowered) outputs for a 5.1 speaker setup. You basically would be switching between the optical output for your headphone setup, and the speaker outputs for your desktop computer speakers. However, you might be able to find something even cheaper with processing and an optical out, and the Schiit M&I'm stack would still define your sound quality. If you like Dolby headphone, the U3 has an optical output and is only like... $30 or something.

And no, no noticeable lag.


----------



## Diamondpact

hmm, i did some further research, apparently usb sound options aren't great, they are limited and don't offer true potential. Ill wait off on the pic e sad till skylake e releases and just upgrade the computer.
  
 Whats the best sound card for pc gaming with optical out to my stack?(best as in 3d positioning features)
  
 I think the cmss 3d and the SBX pro might be the best options for fps gaming, while dolby headphone and trustudio being inferior.
  
 whats better sbx pro or TruStudio? I know the true studio is new and is supposed to replace sbx but I've read mixed reviews. what do you guys think?
  
  
 Which which of all the different types of the 3d positioning audio features do you guys think are the top two for headphones, specifically k7xx and superlux hd681 evo, k7xx being the priority. For sound accuracy/imaging.
  
 Thanks in advanced.


----------



## Fegefeuer

darius510 said:


> So I picked up those Logitech G933s. They're the best and worst headset I've ever owned.
> 
> Wireless signal is flawless. Sound is pretty good, although I still prefer the sound of the PLYR1s by a bit. It's still far better than anything Logitech has put out in the past, and I could totally live with it. Comfort is decent...a little heavy and tight, but nice large earcups and good isolation. Good build quality overall and I like the look of them. Lots of silly features like RGB lights, seriously who cares, but whatever.
> 
> ...


 
  
 are you using LGS 8.75? Did you check our their recent entry?
  
 http://support.logitech.com/en_us/article/New-audio-processor-for-Dolby-Surround-and-DTS-with-Logitech-gaming-headsets
  


> Microsoft has required vendors to adopt the new APO model for effect processing. They believe the new APO driver model provides a better overall audio effect experience. Specifically, system level crashes, or "blue screens", caused by older kernel mode drivers, are reduced when processing effects.
> 
> With this change, we understand there are questions that result from differences in how the *Speaker Properties*in Windows now appear. Previously, we’ve shown Surround Settings in our LGS Control Panel and have tried to duplicate these settings in the Windows *Speaker Properties* panel.


 
  
  
 ok, apparently the problem with the NEW model is that older games read from the windows control panel settings and decide the output mix. APO compliance is a must for any game now else you'll get stereo only.
  
 Logitech pls


----------



## Diamondpact

YUS, I can now die happy! https://www.massdrop.com/r/7P8F5L AKG K7XX are already on mass drop! Down side, I was under the impression that they were going to be out for like 3-4 months before coming back in. With this mindset, I bought the Supberlux hd681 evo.. They just arrived lol.
  
 Only 500 units this time around though, and about 90 are sold. So i should be getting mine early when they start shipping out these.


----------



## Change is Good

All black limited editions becoming the norm, it seems...



http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-DT990-PRO-250ohm-Straight/dp/B010IJ9W1U


----------



## st0neh

fegefeuer said:


> ok, apparently the problem with the NEW model is that older games read from the windows control panel settings and decide the output mix. APO compliance is a must for any game now else you'll get stereo only.
> 
> Logitech pls


 
  
 Yeah it's becoming more and more apparent that Logitech have no idea what they're doing.


----------



## MichaelJames99

DTS Headphone X vs. Dolby Headphone.... 
  
 Admittingly.. I do no gaming anymore.  Everything I watch are movies.
  
 I am thinking that many of you play games and watch movies as well.  My home theater is a living room home theater which backs up to the bedroom.
 My wife likes to sleep in on the weekends and my only choice is headphones.  I have the AKG712 and a Musical Fidelity X2  tube amp with a 3 year old SoundBlaster Recon3D standalone unit (24 bit, 5.1 96khz).  Primarily watching VUDU rentals in Dolby Digital Plus HDX or Directv rentals or Netflix.  I own some Blurays as well.
  
 Not sure when DTS-X will be released.  I own a Marantz AV7702..it has a "Virtual" mode on the headphone side which is brutal.  They may be releasing a new version of this preamp processor next year which introduces DTS-X
  
 So I am asking.. what would be my "next step up" in performance to get that simulated surround ?  Or am I pretty much maxed out right now?  I was hoping the X7 would have been steller, but I don't think it will give me that knock your socks off next step up...  2016 is timeframe


----------



## Evshrug

MichaelJames99,
Read the Surround Sound post of my "If I Knew Then..." Thread, linked in my signature. I talk about DTS X Headphone there and have an audio sample.
I didn't know Marantz was putting DTS X in their next receivers, IMO that's great news. Let's hope that it's not just DTS X and also include DTS X Headphone. Where did you hear Marantz is gonna do this? Please post a link!
Marantz receivers are usually pricey, definitely have a larger physical size than the X7, would require a completely separate chat/mic setup, and much more overkill for people that mainly want to use headphones and occasionally speakers, so I think the X7 would still have situations where it will still be preferred (especially if Marantz skimps at all on headphone jack output). However, in your setup where apparently speakers are your main audio, the Marantz might be your best option if/when it becomes real. If you get the new Marantz and the headphone side is still "brutal," then you're probably better off using the Marantz for speakers and the Sound Blaster G5 for headphones. If you REALLY want to max out your headphone surround...* Smyth Realizer.*

But seriously, click the link in my signature!


----------



## cooledwhip

Hey! I was checking out this guide, very good guide man. Anyway, I really needed help picking a headset and I thought I would rather ask you since you are an audiophile. I am looking at a headset for gaming, and it really needs to have surround sound, all those features because I need to hear well in my counterstrike games. I also will use this to listen to a bit of music while playing.
  
 I have Astro a40's right now, they are about a year old but the mic isn't working, they are very dirty and all beaten and broken. I was considering buying another pair of astros but that is last resort unless I find something better. I was looking at either the hyperx clouds ( only because comp. csgo users use them, otherwise I hate how they look with their fat ugly design), Sennheiser 558, or the sennheiser Game one.
  
 I need something with a mic. I cannot have an external mic like a blue snowball or blue yeti, I need something that attaches to the headset. I am considering both the sennheisers. Would you recommend the Game one's? I'm scared that they won't perform well because they are being marketed to gamers. Are there any other headphones you recommend for me? I didn't watch all your videos. My budget is $200, That budget is not a firm price though. Thanks


----------



## GeneraLight

So I just got my AKG K702s a few days ago. They're awesome and feel great. I plug them directly into my Eizo Foris FS2434 monitor because the Wii U doesn't have any headphone inputs. However, when I do the Surround Sound test in the Wii U System Settings, I only hear 3 sounds instead of 5 sounds like I'm supposed to. How do I get surround sound to work on the Wii U with my AKG K702s? Plugged directly into my computer screen. I've only had them for a few days, so they're far from being burned in. Right now everything sounds like spacious stereo, although positional cues have improved over using speakers. How much better will positional audio become with surround sound?
  
 Thanks


----------



## conquerator2

You will not get surround when using the monitor as your headphone source. You will need a surround sound processor. I don't know which one works with the Wii U and I am not really sure there is a way to get 'real' surround sound with it.


----------



## Helvetica bold

This was posted on neogaf and I thought it was really interesting. It's a slide from a Sony presentation about their new VR headset. This covers audio tech. It's almost sounds like a virtual Dolby Atmos for headphones.


----------



## MattKelly

I sincerely hope the G5 has the ability to daisy chain at LAN. At this point I'm going to be heading in to BO3 with no audio, because I refuse to buy the MixAmp until I get confirmation of the G5's abilities. All set to pull the trigger on it, but man, I really need Creative to announce a date or something (I'm wasting precious time here!)


----------



## Fegefeuer

helvetica bold said:


> This was posted on neogaf and I thought it was really interesting. It's a slide from a Sony presentation about their new VR headset. This covers audio tech. It's almost sounds like a virtual Dolby Atmos for headphones.


 
  
 So the "breakout box" has dedicated hardware for general auditive/binaural rendering.


----------



## Evshrug

^any timeframe on when those VR bad boys will finally be released? I can't imagine the DAC or Amp will be up to mid-fi competitive. Hopefully the headphones plug into the aforementioned "breakout box" so we don't have a cumbersome amount of wire draping around our heads, a separate box would be easier to at least hook up to a nice amp.

Otherwise, if I got a möbius VR headset and I had to live with the internal amp, I would just get one of the sensitive Oppo headphones that don't need extra amping and don't hardly ever distort.


----------



## Fegefeuer

2016.

Just use the best sensitive headphone available for the money. Maybe Fostex NEW 2016 headphones will be less elegant and cheaper


----------



## Evshrug

Tr50p MKIII?
They are good... But I'd rather have at least a semi-open headphone.

Edit: Oh BTW, the Fostex TR50P should be on people's shopping shortlist for an affordable awesome closed planar-magnetic headphone!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, meant the successors to the TH-900 and 600.


----------



## Fox2twenty

I notice a good number of people are still buying ad700x and ad900x for gaming... What is the difference between 700x and 900x? Has anyone tried both, thanks.


----------



## Yethal

Okay, at first I thought I was going crazy but I tested it with the E18 that I recently got. The Custom One Pro does sound better on high gain. It just does. Both on the X7 and the E18 switching to high gain makes the mids punchier and the bass more pronounced. Curiously, I wasn't able to replicate that behavior with my other headphones.


----------



## Diamondpact

My M&M 2 uber stack has a hi and a low gain output. Which would be a best setup for the Superlux 681 Evo and for my awesome AKG k7XX that I'm ordering for the first time on this site https://www.massdrop.com/r/7P8F5L ? I am debating if I should order another one for by brother because there are more than half sold, but I've spent a lot recently :*(
  
 I hope the K7XX lives up to its hype haha, i haven't been hyped on a product in the longest time.
  
 Also, will dts X work on old sound cards too? if not, will i need a new sound card? Also when do you guys think those new sound cards come out?
  
 What is the current best virtual surround sound mode for headphones for fps gaming?(possible sound card link thats cheap but good, I just want to use optical out to my M&M stack n 5.1 to speakers)
  
 I haven't learned so much from a site lol before lol, I find Headfi to be the best site for anything sound related .
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## Jason Bourne

Sorry if this has been covered already as I haven't been keeping up with this thread of late but does the new Astro Mixamp TR offer any sound improvements over the previous versions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So got my replacement X2 today, everything seems to be ion order. I didn't realize my older X2's pads were so heavily compressed compared to the X2 fresh out of the box. It's almost like double the size? I wonder how much the SQ changd just from the pad compression. I can't compare since my old one is messed up now, and I have barotrauma from being sick AND having taken two planes yesterday. My ears are horribly stuffed and unequalized. Everything sounds low-fi and muffled atm. Of course an audio guy has to deal with ear issues first thing after a vacation, lol.

Philips told me the package would contain info for shipping the old one back, but all they sent was the new X2 in it's sealed box with all it's basic contents and nothing else. Looks like I'm gonna have to contact them yet again so they can give me the info for returning the old ones, and putting my money back in the account.

Also got a new Logitech backlit wireless keyboard that I can't get quite used to.


----------



## Fox2twenty

evshrug said:


> Tr50p MKIII?
> They are good... But I'd rather have at least a semi-open headphone.
> 
> Edit: Oh BTW, the Fostex TR50P should be on people's shopping shortlist for an affordable awesome closed planar-magnetic headphone!!




I've heard mk3's are similar to alpha dogs, is this true??


----------



## shuto77

PSA: Metal Gear Solid V is on sale at Amazon for PS4 and XB1 for $40. It's not audio gear, but it definitely has sound. 

I had Target price-match. 
Link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JKM06HG/ref=s9_ri_mh_b1xuk_g63_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-6&pf_rd_r=13GP3KZ77FT44VJCF3VB&pf_rd_t=30901&pf_rd_p=2233618582&pf_rd_i=468642


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> PSA: Metal Gear Solid V is on sale at Amazon for PS4 and XB1 for $40. It's not audio gear, but it definitely has sound.
> 
> I had Target price-match.
> Link:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JKM06HG/ref=s9_ri_mh_b1xuk_g63_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-6&pf_rd_r=13GP3KZ77FT44VJCF3VB&pf_rd_t=30901&pf_rd_p=2233618582&pf_rd_i=468642




Black Friday is near....should be cheaper by then


----------



## Diamondpact

shuto77 said:


> PSA: Metal Gear Solid V is on sale at Amazon for PS4 and XB1 for $40. It's not audio gear, but it definitely has sound.
> 
> I had Target price-match.
> Link:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JKM06HG/ref=s9_ri_mh_b1xuk_g63_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-6&pf_rd_r=13GP3KZ77FT44VJCF3VB&pf_rd_t=30901&pf_rd_p=2233618582&pf_rd_i=468642


 

 I vouch for the game, i love it . Speaking of audio, yes, It has some good choice of music . Call me weird, but for some reason some of their choices of songs are good, usually not the genre I listen too, but metal gear does it again with decent music haha. If only it didn't keep crashing every 30 mins for me... Very rare for me to like music in a game.
  
 How does the k7xx soundstage/imaging stack against ad700x and k701? if those two were rated as they were(10 I believe) what would you guys rate the k7xx in that perspective?


----------



## GeneraLight

I want to get surround sound on the Wii U with my AKG K702 headphones. I heard you need an AV Receiver that supportas LPCM 5.1 with HDMI in and out.
  


> Wii U -> HDMI -> AV Receiver -> HDMI -> TV
> ...................................|...................................
> ..................................v...................................
> .........................Headphones?.......................


 

Do AV Receivers introduce input lag or display lag? Which is the best AV Receiver for the Wii U?


----------



## Yethal

diamondpact said:


> My M&M 2 uber stack has a hi and a low gain output. Which would be a best setup for the Superlux 681 Evo and for my awesome AKG k7XX that I'm ordering for the first time on this site https://www.massdrop.com/r/7P8F5L ? I am debating if I should order another one for by brother because there are more than half sold, but I've spent a lot recently :*(
> 
> I hope the K7XX lives up to its hype haha, i haven't been hyped on a product in the longest time.
> 
> ...



Just buy whichever Xonar card You can afford and be done with it, they all use the same dsp chip.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Okay, at first I thought I was going crazy but I tested it with the E18 that I recently got. The Custom One Pro does sound better on high gain. It just does. Both on the X7 and the E18 switching to high gain makes the mids punchier and the bass more pronounced. Curiously, I wasn't able to replicate that behavior with my other headphones.



Yeah, I felt the same way with my AKG K612. I bet any of the mid-Fi Sennheisers benefit from high gain too. But low impedance headphones with linear impedance curves... Stick to low gain.




generalight said:


> [COLOR=0B0C0E]I want to get surround sound on the Wii U with my AKG K702 headphones. I heard you need an AV Receiver that supportas LPCM 5.1 with HDMI in and out.
> Do AV Receivers introduce input lag or display lag? Which is the best AV Receiver for the Wii U?[/COLOR]



Nah, the AVRs should be fine, it's the TV and a typical TV'a video processing that causes lag. Adding an AVR to your existing setup won't create more input lag.


----------



## shuto77

rudyae86 said:


> Black Friday is near....should be cheaper by then




If the price drops in the next 60 days, my Citi card will refund the difference. And I'm paying no interest for 20 months, so I'm golden.

This is how I buy newish games now.


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> If the price drops in the next 60 days, my Citi card will refund the difference. And I'm paying no interest for 20 months, so I'm golden.
> 
> This is how I buy newish games now.


 
 I never get approved by Citi bank.....boooo lol


----------



## lenroot77

http://gizmodo.com/sennheisers-built-probably-the-worlds-best-headphones-b-1740236171


----------



## conquerator2

Yeah...


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> http://gizmodo.com/sennheisers-built-probably-the-worlds-best-headphones-b-1740236171


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> http://gizmodo.com/sennheisers-built-probably-the-worlds-best-headphones-b-1740236171


 

 Will this work with my Mixamp?


----------



## conquerator2

^ Yeaaaaaaaa.... No.


----------



## inseconds99

axelcloris said:


> Will this work with my Mixamp?


 
 LMAO. 
  
 On a serious note, will the new Orpheus be better or worse then my X7 for gaming? Trying to hear every footstep in the game. Price is no object.


----------



## cooledwhip

Can someone PLEASE answer me?
  
 Considering the Sennheiser Game one's or the Sennheiser HD558's with a Vmoda boompro mic. Budget is $200, I really want sound quality and don't know which headset would be better for me. Thanks


----------



## Fox2twenty

cooledwhip said:


> Can someone PLEASE answer me?
> 
> Considering the Sennheiser Game one's or the Sennheiser HD558's with a Vmoda boompro mic. Budget is $200, I really want sound quality and don't know which headset would be better for me. Thanks




In that price range you also have q107, ath-ad700x/ad900x, fostex t50rp, beyerdynamic dt990 pro...


----------



## cooledwhip

iphone iem said:


> In that price range you also have q107, ath-ad700x/ad900x, fostex t50rp, beyerdynamic dt990 pro...


 
 I was really hoping for something sennheiser. I am not an audiophile by any means and I have never heard of any of those brands. All I have heard of is Sennheiser really and I know they are good. I am going to bestbuy soon to try on the headphones and see how they fit and sound so are there any suggestions of what to try on?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If my plane ear doesn't get better, I may have to put my headphone-ish on hold for the foreseeable future. May have to contact Creative and tell them I can't review the JAM. It's been 3 days, and I'm practically deaf on my left ear.

If you don't have medical insurance, word of advice: don't get sick and then get on a plane. The congestion + air pressure change can totally ruin your ears. Learning this the hard way.

I've cursed my existence years ago, so this is just smearing more **** on the already pile of **** I have to deal with.

Good news for you guys, this means I may just offload all my audio stuff, particularly my basically fresh out of the box replacement X2. Bad news being that no way I'll continue the headphone game if/when I find out I'm screwed on my left ear forever..


----------



## bavinck

If you aren't into the audiophile stuff and just want a good sounding headset that works well the game one is perfect. I have you and like it a bunch. I mostly use my Akg k7xx for gaming and movies now, so if you want to buy a used game one at a fair pr8ce pm me.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad
I can't believe your left ear would be permanent! I mean, it's possible, but unlikely from just cold + plane altitude.
Definitely worth the investment of a DR's visit if you've gone 4 days with no sign of improvement. And ask about insurance options anyway, because the government is starting to fine people for not getting insurance.
Right now is insurance open enrollment, I'm sincerely hoping to get my Fiancé under my insurance plan as a "domestic partner" until she officially becomes my wife next year.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There are DTS HP X demos of Elite Dangerous, Ori, Alien Isolation but no usable hardware for PC or consoles except some All-in-One Headsets like the G933. 
  
 What are DATASAT/Dolby thinking anyway? Battlefront will support Atmos for receivers so at least one plugin exists (albeit probably extra embedded into Frostbyte) but other than that? Haven't read about any Middleware support from both. Games will need to transfer geo data to the renderer, else it's all speaker room "fallback".


----------



## Blze001

mad lust envy said:


> If my plane ear doesn't get better, I may have to put my headphone-ish on hold for the foreseeable future. May have to contact Creative and tell them I can't review the JAM. It's been 3 days, and I'm practically deaf on my left ear.
> 
> If you don't have medical insurance, word of advice: don't get sick and then get on a plane. The congestion + air pressure change can totally ruin your ears. Learning this the hard way.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You should really go to a doctor, man. Airplane ear usually only lasts a few hours. It could be something as simple as wax that got jammed, or there could be serious damage.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> If my plane ear doesn't get better, I may have to put my headphone-ish on hold for the foreseeable future. May have to contact Creative and tell them I can't review the JAM. It's been 3 days, and I'm practically deaf on my left ear.
> 
> If you don't have medical insurance, word of advice: don't get sick and then get on a plane. The congestion + air pressure change can totally ruin your ears. Learning this the hard way.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Holy crap Mad, I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. I had a similar situation a few years ago, it was not fun. I eventually ended up going to the doctor and getting it flushed out after 3 or 4 days of it, which cleared things up for me. I don't know if you've tried taking any over-the-counter nasal decongestants, but sometimes that can help too. I pulled some articles for you, if these help at all. I hope you get better, I'd be heartbroken if anything happened to your hearing, dude.
  
http://gizmodo.com/why-your-ears-pop-and-what-to-do-if-they-dont-505598950
  
http://www.neilmed.com/neilmedblog/2015/04/it-feels-like-my-ear-wont-pop/


----------



## lenroot77

hansotek said:


> Holy crap Mad, I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. I had a similar situation a few years ago, it was not fun. I eventually ended up going to the doctor and getting it flushed out after 3 or 4 days of it, which cleared things up for me. I don't know if you've tried taking any over-the-counter nasal decongestants, but sometimes that can help too. I pulled some articles for you, if these help at all. I hope you get better, I'd be heartbroken if anything happened to your hearing, dude.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/why-your-ears-pop-and-what-to-do-if-they-dont-505598950
> 
> http://www.neilmed.com/neilmedblog/2015/04/it-feels-like-my-ear-wont-pop/




Decongestant for sure... My right ear was plugged with fluid almost 2 weeks last winter.


----------



## Yethal

I went through something similar a year ago. [there used to be something silly here]


----------



## toshly

would 5.1 still work with optical output to a dac, I have a sound blaster z, wondering if an external amp and dac combo could further improve sound on my akg q701s


----------



## Sam21

Most of audiophile DACs accept only 2 channels whether it is through USB, Optical or Coaxial. the optical out on your SBZ outputs a virtualized 2-channel, so DACs with optical in would work.
  
 I am just guessing but I think the amp on your SBZ isn't good enough for the Q701. DAC differences are subtle and therefore negligible for gaming.


----------



## toshly

sam21 said:


> Most of audiophile DACs accept only 2 channels whether it is through USB, Optical or Coaxial. the optical out on your SBZ outputs a virtualized 2-channel, so DACs with optical in would work.
> 
> I am just guessing but I think the amp on your SBZ isn't good enough for the Q701. DAC differences are subtle and therefore negligible for gaming.


 
  
 so you reckon it's only worth buying an amp and use the sound blaster z dac, which amp would you recommend


----------



## Sam21

toshly said:


> so you reckon it's only worth buying an amp and use the sound blaster z dac, which amp would you recommend


 
  
 Yes, 
  
 the Schiit Magni 2 Uber is a very powerful amp and can drive Q701 to its full potential.
  
  
 there are better amps out there, but the one I mentioned is an introductory DAC which doesn't cost that much.
  
 about DACs, Going from a MOBO DAC to an introductory audiophile DAC makes a lot of diffrence. but the DAC on your SBZ is pretty good by itself...I am guessing it is the CS4398 ?


----------



## toshly

sam21 said:


> Yes,
> 
> the Schiit Magni 2 Uber is a very powerful amp and can drive Q701 to its full potential.
> 
> ...


 
  
 yes it's the CS4398, being in the uk im not sure i can get a hold of the uber 2 magni , modi


----------



## toshly

*delete*


----------



## Fegefeuer

toshly said:


> yes it's the CS4398, being in the uk im not sure i can get a hold of the uber 2 magni , modi


 
  
 Schiit-Europe.com


----------



## Evshrug

Who's got Black Ops 3?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> Who's got Black Ops 3?


 
  
 You misspelled Fallout 4.


----------



## Yethal

Is it worth buying?


----------



## Darkangelpt

I do


----------



## raband

PC version is rough?


----------



## canthearyou

evshrug said:


> Who's got Black Ops 3?



I have Halo of Duty for PS4. It's just like the other iterations of the game. A cartoonish arcade shooter. I will say I think it is better than BO and BO2. I am a Battlefield man, myself.


----------



## Yethal

Well Battlefield has gone to schiit too. As for console fps my only hope is the new rainbow six.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Well Battlefield has gone to schiit too. As for console fps my only hope is the new rainbow six.




The last truly original FPS I played was Bioshock Infinite. They really should have worked out a robust multiplayer component for that game. 

I was considering a return to FPS this year, but everything I care about this year is single player. Once I finish Witcher 3 and MGS5, Fallout 4 is the only other great new game this year. 

I've read good things about Destiny: The Taken King, but it sounds grind-y. Not sure if I have the patience for that.


----------



## Mr Bee

I got the Black ops 3 for ps4. Not bad, a few server teething problems but seems pretty decent. Looking for a mixamp friendly pair of headphones to go with the boom pro mic I'm going to order. Any suggestions? I like the look of the hd598. But I believe I would have to take the twist lock of the headphone jack.


----------



## shuto77

mr bee said:


> I got the Black ops 3 for ps4. Not bad, a few server teething problems but seems pretty decent. Looking for a mixamp friendly pair of headphones to go with the boom pro mic I'm going to order. Any suggestions? I like the look of the hd598. But I believe I would have to take the twist lock of the headphone jack.




The HD598 is a decent can for gaming that's not too hard to drive. That proprietary twist-lock cable may present some challenges for pairing with a microphone, however.


----------



## shuto77

shuto77 said:


> The HD598 is a decent can for gaming that's not too hard to drive. That proprietary twist-lock cable may present some challenges for pairing with a microphone, however.




Do you like THE BASS? Philips Fidelio X1 can be had for around the same price, and will work with the BoomPro.


----------



## Mr Bee

shuto77 said:


> The HD598 is a decent can for gaming that's not too hard to drive. That proprietary twist-lock cable may present some challenges for pairing with a microphone, however.



I believe with a little tinkering the twist lock can be removed to leave a push fit. As for the X1. I will look into them. Thank you.


----------



## shuto77

mr bee said:


> I believe with a little tinkering the twist lock can be removed to leave a push fit. As for the X1. I will look into them. Thank you.




You're welcome. 

Pro tip: Don't do any permanent mods to a can unless you're positive you're keeping them. You can always get something good, keep for a few months, and sell on the classifieds for ~75-90% of what you paid. This is even more true if you get something that's well-regarded around here.


----------



## Yethal

Twist lock on the HD598 can be removed with a screwdriver. You need to open the left cup and just unscrew it. Then buy a 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter and You're good to go with the Boompro.


----------



## Mr Bee

shuto77 said:


> You're welcome.
> 
> Pro tip: Don't do any permanent mods to a can unless you're positive you're keeping them. You can always get something good, keep for a few months, and sell on the classifieds for ~75-90% of what you paid. This is even more true if you get something that's well-regarded around here.




I really am after a keeper primarily for ps4 gaming. I've bought the mixamp. Picked a mic (boom pro) struggling on headet. Is the x1 a lot better than hd598? Found a X11 brand new £180 is that good?


----------



## Mr Bee

yethal said:


> Twist lock on the HD598 can be removed with a screwdriver. You need to open the left cup and just unscrew it. Then buy a 2.5mm>3.5mm adapter and You're good to go with the Boompro.




Yeah that's what I read seems a simple job. I've even gone and bought the adapter as I thought I was set on the hd598. But I am now unsure after the x1 has been suggested. Which would be more suited to mixamp and ps4 for Fps?


----------



## shuto77

mr bee said:


> I really am after a keeper primarily for ps4 gaming. I've bought the mixamp. Picked a mic (boom pro) struggling on headet. Is the x1 a lot better than hd598? Found a X11 brand new £180 is that good?




Long answer to a short question... 

It seems the price on the X1 is nearly as high as its replacement, the X2. Most people believe the X2 is a great all-around can, and slightly better than the X1.

I can't help you with UK pricing, since I'm in the US, but 180£/$280 seems rather high for that can. I also know UK folks always seem to pay more for electronics and audio gear than we do in the US. 

There are many good options nowadays. Ultimately, your two main criteria should be easy to drive (because the mixamp isn't very powerful), and to have a good soundstage. But you also need to consider tonal balance, comfort, and price. 

I would peruse the guide and look at the cans in your price range. 

If you want a keeper, you really have to know what you're looking for. Most of us go through a few decent cans until we find the two or three we keep. That takes research and experimentation. 

We can tell you what we like,and how one compares to another, but individual tastes play a part too. 

I know we have some UK people always moving gently-used gear in the classifieds, so that can help you set a baseline for street prices.


----------



## conquerator2

Let's see how my new baby fares with regards to gaming... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Something tells me it won't be too bad


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Let's see how my new baby fares with regards to gaming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What did You buy man?


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> What did You buy man?


 
 Hopefully something that'll do for some time 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Spoiler: HP porn


----------



## AxelCloris

conquerator2 said:


> Let's see how my new baby fares with regards to gaming...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 If my experience is worth anything, it's a kick-ass gaming can.


----------



## conquerator2

axelcloris said:


> If my experience is worth anything, it's a kick-ass gaming can.


 
 Oh if it is anything similar to how it throws staging with stereo music, I am in for a treat


----------



## Hansotek

mr bee said:


> shuto77 said:
> 
> 
> > You're welcome.
> ...



X1 and X2 are going to be significantly better, IMO. Much more involving with equal imaging capability. Also, you can connect the boom pro with no fuss. If you get the X1, be sure to get a different cable ($10 monoprice cable will be fine), since the one that comes with the headphone sounds like booty. Otherwise, I have no complaints.


----------



## canthearyou

mr bee said:


> I got the Black ops 3 for ps4. Not bad, a few server teething problems but seems pretty decent. Looking for a mixamp friendly pair of headphones to go with the boom pro mic I'm going to order. Any suggestions? I like the look of the hd598. But I believe I would have to take the twist lock of the headphone jack.




I have used many headphones with the MixAmp. I do double amp with an 02. I have used DT990, HD598, SPH9500, X2, K7XX and currently AKG K553 Pro. And the 553 are very good IMO. They have excellent soundstage for a closed back headphone. And the imaging and positioning is great. Plus you get a nice amount of bass.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Who's got Black Ops 3?




I'm guessing you do?



axelcloris said:


> You misspelled Fallout 4.




F
A
L
L
O
U
T

4



yethal said:


> Well Battlefield has gone to schiit too. As for console fps my only hope is the new rainbow six.




I agree, but don't hold your breath on R6. The tactical theme is intense, but the mechanics are ****. Trying to find a match during the beta was more challenging than the gameplay, itself.

FPS games are mostly all watered down, nowadays, have been for a while. Just pick a franchise that fits your style and enjoy it with your friends.

PS: Doom looks promising


----------



## Yethal

Well, I played the R6 beta and apart from the terrible matchmaking (which I hope ubi has fixed already) and some balance issues I actually had fun in that game. I hope it doesn't follow the usual Ubisoft's "launch now, fix all the bugs in a year or so" scheme.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Well, I played the R6 beta and apart from the terrible matchmaking (which I hope ubi has fixed already) and some balance issues I actually had fun in that game. I hope it doesn't follow the usual Ubisoft's "launch now, fix all the bugs in a year or so" scheme.




I had fun, too, but only when it didn't require actual shooting. It just wasn't smooth and hits were sometimes not registering, leaving me with the "What" look on my face more often than not. I love the tactics involved and am sure (or hope) there is more variety in the full game. But add in the fact that microtransactions are key to unlocking the more expensive agents completely turned me off. You basically have to save around 25hrs of in-game currency to unlock each, otherwise.

Ubisoft and Activision can both go to hell, even EA. The former two's greedy practices are so much worse IMO, however, that it results in me often overlooking EA's. Watch Dogs, Destiny, and Hardline (a disgrace to the Battlefield name) all left a bad taste in my mouth this gen for each publisher.

Still, BFH is better (to me) than most pvp FPSers on the console market (COD, KZ, Destiny) so I just keep playing it and BF4. The different styles of the two actually make them compliment each other.


----------



## Yethal

Well, Killzone Shadow Fall was one of the best console FPS I've ever played. If only it wasn't so sluggish. Seriously, the input lag, slow acceleration and turn speed make the game feel so unresponsive. That and these anoying drones have ruined this otherwise great game. Destiny felt too repetitive and Hardline feels too much like BF4. I wish they made this game pistol only with all primary weapons being kept in trunk, with much less offensive gadgets. The part about the R6 I liked the most was lack of 'splosions every second or so. Most gadgests were defensive in their nature. That was a nice change from the 'splosions in Battlefield and Call of Duty.


----------



## bavinck

canthearyou said:


> I have used many headphones with the MixAmp. I do double amp with an 02. I have used DT990, HD598, SPH9500, X2, K7XX and currently AKG K553 Pro. And the 553 are very good IMO. They have excellent soundstage for a closed back headphone. And the imaging and positioning is great. Plus you get a nice amount of bass.




How would you compare k7xx and x2 for games and movies?


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Well Battlefield has gone to schiit too. As for console fps my only hope is the new rainbow six.




That's the thing...you are playing it on a console lol. Join the PC Master Race and it's a different story. Seems like EA/Dice have shift focus on the PC a bit more lately than consoles.

Honestly, I still get a good time playing BF4. Everything feels just right already especially when playing in 40Hz and 60Hz servers.

Either that or I'm too good of a team player lol or too good overall.


Arrogance errgh lol

R6 beta was meh. The intensity was there but finding a game sometimes was taking forever and then I would get stuck because some player decided to leave and we're waiting for him or her to get ready and never started the match.

R6 was all bad. I think Ghost Recon Phantoms is a better game overall from Ubisoft even with its micro transaction stuff, which you don't really need to buy but does help.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Well, Killzone Shadow Fall was one of the best console FPS I've ever played. If only it wasn't so sluggish. Seriously, the input lag, slow acceleration and turn speed make the game feel so unresponsive. That and these anoying drones have ruined this otherwise great game. Destiny felt too repetitive and Hardline feels too much like BF4. I wish they made this game pistol only with all primary weapons being kept in trunk, with much less offensive gadgets. The part about the R6 I liked the most was lack of 'splosions every second or so. Most gadgests were defensive in their nature. That was a nice change from the 'splosions in Battlefield and Call of Duty.




I agree KZS was impressive, but the issues you mentioned were the same problems I had with the game. I think that because BFH feels too much like BF4 is why I still play it often, it's just its theme and lack of vehicles/weapons that leaves me somewhat disappointed. It's like the game was designed to entice sniping campers more than anything, hence the lack of vehicles available to clear them out like in BF4.

Because it's DICE and the shooting mechanics are similar to the BFs, tis' why I chose Battlefront as my pvp FPS this holiday season. I am rather skeptical, though, that it will be TOO casual like Hardline is. Still, it's freaking Star Wars... so... yeah 




rudyae86 said:


> That's the thing...you are playing it on a console lol. Join the PC Master Race and it's a different story. Seems like EA/Dice have shift focus on the PC a bit more lately than consoles.




I can't play video games with a mouse/keyboard, so I'd be at a disadvantage if I played any FPS on PC. I'll just keep dealing with the peasant console race as I have all my gaming life. I find to be most relatable with the PS community, anyway, so there's that. PC is full of arrogant gaming mofos like you and Xbox is full of immature "that's what your mom said last night in my bed" fanboys


----------



## inseconds99

I love my TH900's (recently traded my hd800's for them) but not for gaming. The boomy bass tends to drown out footsteps and other sound markers while gaming. They are my perfect headphone for music listening but not my favorite gaming cans. For TOTL headphones that could also be great for gaming, the HD800 is unrivaled at this point in my experience.
  
 Would love to hear the he1000's though, also, depending on price and reviews I will be purchasing an HD800s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> Who's got Black Ops 3?




Rented it. Pretty decent campaign with a host of new options and tech, though I feel it wasn't as good as the ones before it. 4 player co-op seems nice though I played alone, because I prefer to play alone.

Dabbled just a touch in multiplayer, seems good, but again maps are too big and random. I miss classic 3 lane CoD where memorizing maps = better chance at being successful. Now it's just a cluster**** of rooms and lanes, and I just hate that.

Didn't touch Zombies, because I've never liked Horde mode in ANY game. I did try Nightmare which is a Zombie version of the campaign (must complete the game first), which is close to what I want them to do: A fully fleshed out Zombie campaign. Unfortunately, it's a bit just tacked on to what happens in the campaign, so I hope next time they do it, they actually make a legit Zombie campaign with a story akin to what they do in Zombie horde modes.

Anyways, returned the game, moving on to something else. CoD used to be my go to game back when it was a bit more simplistic. Now it's become too much, too big, and too messy for my taste.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Dabbled just a touch in multiplayer, seems good, but again maps are too big and random. I miss classic 3 lane CoD where memorizing maps = better chance at being successful. Now it's just a cluster**** of rooms and lanes, and I just hate that.




I swear this is where most of the influx of sniping campers are coming from in Hardline. Since COD ridded the camping environments and maps are now designed to "run around like a chicken with your head cut off," they all came to Hardline to hide on the edge of conquest maps and snipe all day. It makes me rage like hell so much when I spawn in just to get sniped 2 seconds later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, to be fair, Battlefield has always been like that. Battlefield 2: Modern Combat was my first FPS ever, and that was pre-CoD4, pre-CoD boom. All people did in BF2: MC was hide out on the map corners and snipe. That and tank/helicopter. I was one of few people I saw who used to run and gun and do well in that game, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Well, to be fair, Battlefield has always been like that. Battlefield 2: Modern Combat was my first FPS ever, and that was pre-CoD4, pre-CoD boom. All people did in BF2: MC was hide out on the map corners and snipe. That and tank/helicopter. I was one of few people I saw who used to run and gun and do well in that game, lol.




Oh, you're totally right... it's just MUCH WORSE on Hardline. The lack of tanks/attack choppers leaves pretty much no counter-attack for all the sniping going on.


----------



## Change is Good

change is good said:


> Oh, you're totally right... it's just MUCH WORSE on Hardline. The lack of tanks/attack choppers leaves pretty much no counter-attack for all the sniping going on.




Tis' is why I prefer BF4 over the former mentioned. I have a variety of ways to attack the battlefield, depending on what the situation calls for. Blueberries actually PTFO in the game, too, something you rarely see on Hardline. Grrrrrr... makes me want to boot it up just to rage even more 

Edit: yes, I just quoted myself haha


----------



## bavinck

Just want to add to this bf discussion:

Fallout 4 baby.... Yaaaaa!


----------



## Change is Good

bavinck said:


> Just want to add to this bf discussion:
> 
> Fallout 4 baby.... Yaaaaa!


 
  
 Well, we're talking about pvp FPS but since you bring that up...
  

  
  
 yaaaaa!


----------



## bavinck

Lol, I know sorry. Do you guys gave any idea when ps4 fallout preload is supposed to start?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I dunno if it's me dying or something, but I seem to be irritated by the X2's headband now and I started getting a bald spot after a day of use. Looks like someone is gonna be happy with a basically new pair of X2s up for sale soon.

Looks like I'm gonna add standard headbands as something IO will avoid in the future and stick to clip on, neckband headphones.


I ordered an elusive pair of Sennheiser PMX95 to use. They're rare and not sold here, so had to go to Ebay for them. I'd prefer the MM100 since it's wireless, but that's even harder to get and there's like none to find now.



Here's hoping they use the drivers out of the PX100-II. Loved that sound.


----------



## Change is Good

bavinck said:


> Lol, I know sorry. Do you guys gave any idea when ps4 fallout preload is supposed to start?


 
  
 No idea, here. I usually buy disc games. Only way I would buy digital is if I played on PC where I never have to worry about 'backwards compatibility' on future gen upgrades.


----------



## bavinck

If you really are going to sell your x2s I m in the market.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, let me think about it for a few. Gotta see whaty the market is for them and how much I bought mine for. They're literally a few hours old in use.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> So I dunno if it's me dying or something, but I seem to be irritated by the X2's headband now and I started getting a bald spot after a day of use.


 
  
 Welcome to your 30s (I'm assuming that, don't remember your actual age). Only gets better from here....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

About to be 33 next month, and I'm starting to feel iot. Bald spot from a headphone, sinus congestion causing weeklong plane ear that is still not fixed... I don't even know anymore.

I'll sell my basically brand new X2 for $200+shipping. Is that fair to you? They're currently going for almost $300


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> So I dunno if it's me dying or something, but I seem to be irritated by the X2's headband now and I started getting a bald spot after a day of use. Looks like someone is gonna be happy with a basically new pair of X2s up for sale soon.
> 
> Looks like I'm gonna add standard headbands as something IO will avoid in the future and stick to clip on, neckband headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 I had this issue with the SHP9500, had a bald spot for days after a binge week of destiny when it came out.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> About to be 33 next month, and I'm starting to feel iot. Bald spot from a headphone, sinus congestion causing weeklong plane ear that is still not fixed... I don't even know anymore.
> 
> I'll sell my basically brand new X2 for $200+shipping. Is that fair to you? They're currently going for almost $300


 
  
 Well, you're fairing better than me. I went bald at 28... haha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It literally happened yesterday, so I stopped wearing it immediately once I noticed. I'm sure it was a reaction and I'm not going bald, yet. Though I normally keep my hair super short (zero/one with hair clippers), so going bald wouldn't be the end of my world. I'm a hat guy as is.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> It literally happened yesterday, so I stopped wearing it immediately once I noticed. I'm sure it was a reaction and I'm not going bald, yet. Though I normally keep my hair super short (zero/one with hair clippers), so going bald wouldn't be the end of my world. I'm a hat guy as is.


 
  
 I used to be a hat/cap guy until it resulted in a receding hairline and an 'island' on the top of my head. My haircuts were like yours, though, so going fully bald really wasn't all that bad. Headphones are way more comfy, now, anyway...


----------



## trogdor796

Guys, I need some quick advice here.
  
 Essentially I'm wondering if I should get the AKG K7XX from massdrop for $200 or get the K712 pros from Amazon for $322(or cheaper on black friday maybe).
  
 These will be used on PC 70% for gaming and 30% for music. Gaming would be first person shoots.
  
 Can anyone tell me how they compare, build quality and sound wise? The extra $122 isn't a problem for me but if the differences are negligible I'd like to put it towards an amp. 
  
 I need to join the mass drop soon if I go that route!


----------



## Change is Good

trogdor796 said:


> Guys, I need some quick advice here.
> 
> Essentially I'm wondering if I should get the AKG K7XX from massdrop for $200 or get the K712 pros from Amazon for $322(or cheaper on black friday maybe).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Some will debate and say that the price difference is worth it while others, like myself, can deal with the slight technical differences that _don't_ (in my opinion) justify that price difference. I say go for the K7XX.


----------



## trogdor796

change is good said:


> Some will debate and say that the price difference is worth it while others, like myself, can deal with the slight technical differences that _don't_ (in my opinion) justify that price difference. I say go for the K7XX.


 

 So someone like me coming from Astro A50's the 7XX's will likely be good enough as long as I get a good amp?
  
 Also, I read some people have a rattle in one ear with the 7XX, and some other minor build quality issues. Are these rare, and if I buy through mass drop does anyone know how good they are at exchanges and paying for shipping if something is wrong? Like if the build quality is that much better on the 712 pro's I'd pay the difference but IMO they both look nice...


----------



## Change is Good

trogdor796 said:


> So someone like me coming from Astro A50's the 7XX's will likely be good enough as long as I get a good amp?
> 
> Also, I read some people have a rattle in one ear with the 7XX, and some other minor build quality issues. Are these rare, and if I buy through mass drop does anyone know how good they are at exchanges and paying for shipping if something is wrong? Like if the build quality is that much better on the 712 pro's I'd pay the difference but IMO they both look nice...




According to side by side reports, the K712's build is sturdier than that if the K7XX. I can't say, myself, because it's been a good while since owning the former.

As for exchanges and warranty support, both Massdrop and AKG have been superb from my experience. When my K7XX's right driver died, AKG's warehouses were going through reconstruction. Instead of waiting a couple weeks for AKG to replace/repair, Massdrop glady exchanged them for me when they received more in stock. This was 6 months after purchase, I may add.


----------



## trogdor796

Good to know, sounds like good support from those companies.
  
 Now to decide which to get! I'll probably end up going with the K7XX's, just googling right now and some people keep reporting a rattle in one of the ear cups, but I'm sure it's an actual very low %. In the grand scheme of things an extra $122 isn't that much to me but at the same time I'm very careful with my thing and these headphones are literally going to sit at my desk, so a slightly lower build quality won't bother me that much.
  
 That orange color on the 712's though...damn fine lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd definitely opt for the 7XX. I don't trust there being a difference in build. Just people being paranoid because the 7XX isn't made in Austria.


----------



## trogdor796

mad lust envy said:


> I'd definitely opt for the 7XX. I don't trust there being a difference in build. Just people being paranoid because the 7XX isn't made in Austria.


 
 I thought I read that some 712 pros were made in China, others in Austria? Or are they all made in Austria? Not that it matters, both come from a factory at the end of the day.
  
 Probably gonna order the 7XX's then! Thanks for the advice. Any recommendations on an amp? I've got an Asus Xonar DX sound card in my PC if that makes a difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'll want an amp for those. A desktop amp at minimal. Something warm. I would probably take a Magni 2 as entry point for the AKGs. Personally, I would lean on the Vali, but I'm biased, and loved it too much.

IIRC, the 712 is made in Austria, everything else in the 700-ish line moved to China. Not sure how it is today though.


----------



## trogdor796

Just joined the mass drop for the K7XX's. 
  
 Also, I've got a question regarding an amp, don't know if anyone here knows the answer to.
  
 So right now I've got my desktop PC with the Xonar DX in it. I also have desktop speakers(Corsair SP2500). The desktop speakers are hooked up to the sound card in the headphone/front out port. The speakers have a volume module with a dial for controlling the volume, and this module has a headphone jack on it. If I get an amp, how can I have it so both my speakers and headphones are both hooked up to the PC/soundcard at the same time, so I can switch between them in Windows, instead of swapping cables? Would I plug the amp into the speakers module with the headphone jack, or will I have to run the speakers through my motherboard audio?
  
 Probably a dumb question, I've got no experience with amps or high end headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, looks like the speakers are powered, so if you get a headphone amp with a line out, you can plug in your speakers to that. Magni 2 Uber has at least a pre-out. That means you can control the speaker's volume with the Magni 2 Uber.


----------



## trogdor796

Okay, cool. Is there a button to turn the speakers on or off in that case? I guess just how would you switch between the headphones and speakers, such as turn the one you are not using off, when using an amp with a line out?


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## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, you'd have to just turn off your speakers separately.

You could save yourself a headache and get something like the Creative X7 which has everything you need, and DOES have ways to switch bvetween headphones and speakers. That's what I use. It's a good entry point for amping too, though I would look into something a bnit beefier amp-wise for the 7XX, though I'm certain the X7 will do fine as well.


----------



## trogdor796

Ah. The creative is a bit more than id like to spend atm, so I guess I'll just be turning the speakers off when not in use, no biggie. Also, say I wanted to use the speakers but not the headphones, can the headphones just be turned off with the amp then, and the speakers keep playing?

And how well would the 7XXs be without an amp? I plan to get one immediately for my desktop but say for using them with my iPhone 6 or MacBook, would they still sound decent for music without an amp?


----------



## grownasssman

I got rid of my x7 for the price it wasn't really doing it for me. I'm looking for a replacement I'm thinking mix amp but not sure what amp to get I would like something portable that could double as a phone amp dac leaning towards a fiio e07k. I'm going to be powering some psb m4u1s and akg q701s. Also anybody have info on when the Soundblaster g5 is coming out?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

trogdor796 said:


> Ah. The creative is a bit more than id like to spend atm, so I guess I'll just be turning the speakers off when not in use, no biggie. Also, say I wanted to use the speakers but not the headphones, can the headphones just be turned off with the amp then, and the speakers keep playing?
> 
> And how well would the 7XXs be without an amp? I plan to get one immediately for my desktop but say for using them with my iPhone 6 or MacBook, would they still sound decent for music without an amp?




You can only lower a headphone volume if the amp you're using has the speakers attached to a line out, as opposed to a pre-out (which is what the Magni 2 Uber has). Line out bypasses amp volume, which is more ideal for your powered speakers, though you obviously lose the convencience of adjusting speaker volume with the headphone amp.

The 7XX without an amp is grossly limiting its performance. I would advise against it. You may be even be lacking volume if you go without an amp.


----------



## trogdor796

So for devices like an iPhone or Laptop would I be better using Apple earbuds or the 7xx without an amp? I'll amp it at my desktop, but using an amp with my phone or laptop would be a hit of a hassle.


----------



## grownasssman

Just did some research on the new astro mixamp pro tr editions... they are console specific and do chat through USB for both systems... with no controler input and astro advises you to buy both if you have both systems. So i guess im not buying the new mixamp. If creative ever releases some info on the g5 that will probably be my best bet but knowing my luck I probably won't be able to get chat through it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trog, you could use it without an amp, just, you may not achieve a good volume, and dynamics won't be as good. You'd be better off with something like the X2 which isn't as dependent on amping. It still deserves amping, but I have used mine off my laptop and phone plenty of times.

That's not really a hint to look at mine, lol. I've stated as such plenty of times. The X2 is better than the AKGs when going unamped.


----------



## trogdor796

Most of the time I'll be using it will be on my desktop which I'll use an amp, was just wondering if it would be decent/better than Apple earbuds on a phone or laptop without an amp, but since most of the time it's gonna be on PC I should be fine.


----------



## Sam21

this just came in: 
  
 http://www.sybasonic.com/index.php?m=en&a=productview&id=173
  
 it is an audiophile grade analog EQ with a pretty good amp (busted my KSC75). You can use it as a pre-amp , post-amp or standalone EQ-Amp. can be connected to a Mixamp etc...
  
  
 I really like it.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> You'll want an amp for those. A desktop amp at minimal. Something warm. I would probably take a Magni 2 as entry point for the AKGs. Personally, I would lean on the Vali, but I'm biased, and loved it too much.
> 
> IIRC, the 712 is made in Austria, everything else in the 700-ish line moved to China. Not sure how it is today though.




Nope, k712 are now made in Slovakia.


----------



## Evshrug

trogdor796 said:


> Ah. The creative is a bit more than id like to spend atm, so I guess I'll just be turning the speakers off when not in use, no biggie. Also, say I wanted to use the speakers but not the headphones, can the headphones just be turned off with the amp then, and the speakers keep playing?
> 
> And how well would the 7XXs be without an amp? I plan to get one immediately for my desktop but say for using them with my iPhone 6 or MacBook, would they still sound decent for music without an amp?




I had an AKG Q701 and K712, both 62 ohms and the same sensitivity as the K7xx. Unless the color and "Limited Edition" nature of the K712 appeals to you, I'd get the K7XX. Currently, I use the K612 which is also a bargain.

The Q and K both reached loud volumes on my iPhone 5S and iPad Mini 2, and sounded like an improvement over EarPods. I wouldn't use the AKGs on the go because they're just so big, but it's fine at home or the office. When adding an amp, the bass gets tighter and more defined, and extension into sub bass improves, also treble is controlled better and sounds less aggressive. Overall the headphone becomes more articulate with a good amp. 

MacBook headphone jacks are better than most built-in setups, but I think it's the first Mac in a long time where the headphone out jack isn't also a combination optical mini-toslink output. Rather than the X7, I'd recommend the more affordable Omni... It has a headphone out in the front, outputs on the back for up to a 5.1 speaker setup (self-powered active speakers only, like you have), you can have it on your desk for easy access to ports, it has a volume dial on top to control you PC volume (so it can control both headphone or speakers), and Creative's control panel (compatible with PC/Mac) lets you toggle between speaker and headphone output. It also sends processed surround out through optical, so if some day you buy a $400 DAC you can still game in 3D with the Omni in your setup.

Only 2 downsides: doesn't have a battery to use with an iPhone on the go, and doesn't support game consoles in surround.

Alternative, if you want something that the Omni does, is a battery-powered portable, adds iPhone USB HOST connection support and Bluetooth, you could get the Sound Blaster E5. It also has a better amp than the Omni, but the Omni is at least an upgrade over an iPhone or computer port.


----------



## trogdor796

Thanks for the amp recommendations, I'll check them out. When it comes to using speakers with my PC in addition to headphones, I'm fine with controlling the speakers volume with the control pod that came with the speakers, so I don't need an amp that has that ability. I just didn't want to have to swap cables for headphones and speakers whenever i wanted to switch between them. So I guess I'd just need an amp with a line out then, not pre-out?
  
 One thing I realized I'm going to miss from my Astro's is the ability to balance game and chat volume on the fly, without going into menus or windows settings. The A50's handle the chat via USB and game audio through optical, and then there's the rocker on the headset that you can use to balance volume between the two. Is there a way to do that with a pair of headphones like the 7XX's? Is that what a mix amp does?
  
 Follow up to that question, if a mix amp allows me to do that, is there any mix amp + amp + mic I can buy for these headphones that will allow me to use them with my PC (Windows 10), PS4, and Xbox One? I was planning on just using these with PC, and keeping my Astro A50's for console use, but since the 7XX's will likely sound better to me I'd like to use them with my consoles if possible.


----------



## Yethal

trogdor796 said:


> Thanks for the amp recommendations, I'll check them out. When it comes to using speakers with my PC in addition to headphones, I'm fine with controlling the speakers volume with the control pod that came with the speakers, so I don't need an amp that has that ability. I just didn't want to have to swap cables for headphones and speakers whenever i wanted to switch between them. So I guess I'd just need an amp with a line out then, not pre-out?
> 
> One thing I realized I'm going to miss from my Astro's is the ability to balance game and chat volume on the fly, without going into menus or windows settings. The A50's handle the chat via USB and game audio through optical, and then there's the rocker on the headset that you can use to balance volume between the two. Is there a way to do that with a pair of headphones like the 7XX's? Is that what a mix amp does?
> 
> Follow up to that question, if a mix amp allows me to do that, is there any mix amp + amp + mic I can buy for these headphones that will allow me to use them with my PC (Windows 10), PS4, and Xbox One? I was planning on just using these with PC, and keeping my Astro A50's for console use, but since the 7XX's will likely sound better to me I'd like to use them with my consoles if possible.


 
 It's game/chat balance is possible with the X7 and the E5 if a PS4-compatible bluetooth dongle is used for chat audio.


----------



## Evshrug

E5 can connect straight to PS4 USB for chat audio. In fact you don't even need an optical connector, though connecting to PS4 USB and optical lets you individually control the volume level for game (optical) and chat (USB) if you use the Sound Blaster smartphone/tablet app.


----------



## Sam21

can the X7 do the exact same thing as the E5 ? and if not, why ?


----------



## trogdor796

So does anyone know about Xbox One? Would the X7 or E5 work with it as well? Or would I need a whole separate setup for Xbox one? I really don't like that Microsoft forces chat audio to come through the controller, which is why I need to wire my A50's up to my controller on Xbox One but not PS4, its just stupid and unnecessary in my opinion.
  
 To be honest, the more looking I do on what it would take to have these headphones work with PS4 and Xbox One, the closer I am to just using my A50's for consoles and sticking with the 7XXs for PC only, I can't seem to find any standard solution for how to do it. PS4 and Xbox are both different, some people say you need some devices, other people say use different ones, wires going everywhere with all kinds of adapters, etc. Just a mess. Or am I missing something? I found this post on a thread regarding PS4 and mics:
  


defbringer said:


> *There is so much crap, bad information in this thread it is unbelievable.*  No wonder so many people are just throwing their hands up in the air and buying Astro A50's.
> 
> Over the course of the last week I have experimented with each and every possible combination of the following:
> 
> ...


 
 So would that information apply for Xbox one as well, or would that require different equipment? I guess I'm just wondering if anyone can post a list of what I would need, in addition to my headphones, that will allow me to power them and control chat and game audio with PS4 and Xbox one, if such a list of things exists, or if it would be a separate list for each console and another one for PC.


----------



## grownasssman

I emailed creative and they told me still no release date on the Soundblaster g5 even though they said November back in august. Guess I'll just order a xbox mixamp tr in that ugly white color because thas the only oNE compatible with xbox one chat. Honestly the console specific for Xbox and pc makes no sense. I can plug any pc peripheral for audio into my ps4 and it works. I feel like they would've had to have gone out of their way to make it console specific. Also Ive been told multiple times the mixamp needs an amp. Leaning towards school magnificent right now. Any other recommendations?


----------



## PurpleAngel

trogdor796 said:


> Just joined the mass drop for the K7XX's.
> Also, I've got a question regarding an amp, don't know if anyone here knows the answer to.
> So right now I've got my desktop PC with the Xonar DX in it. I also have desktop speakers(Corsair SP2500). The desktop speakers are hooked up to the sound card in the headphone/front out port. The speakers have a volume module with a dial for controlling the volume, and this module has a headphone jack on it. If I get an amp, how can I have it so both my speakers and headphones are both hooked up to the PC/sound card at the same time, so I can switch between them in Windows, instead of swapping cables? Would I plug the amp into the speakers module with the headphone jack, or will I have to run the speakers through my motherboard audio?
> Probably a dumb question, I've got no experience with amps or high end headphones.


 
 Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the DX sound card.
 Check out the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 There are some headphone amplifiers that come with a separate line-output.
 Schiit Magni 2 Uber, $149
 http://schiit.com/products/magni-2
 Just connect it to the Xonar DX's headphone/Front Speaker jack.
  
 Or sell off the Asus Xonar DX sound card for a Xonar Essence STX sound card.
 The STX has a decent headphone amplifier and a separate 2-channel line-output (for speakers).
 The Corsair SP2500 2.1 only required a 2-channel source.
  
 Should be able to find a used Essence STX for around $100-$150 (eBay).


----------



## PurpleAngel

trogdor796 said:


> Okay, cool. Is there a button to turn the speakers on or off in that case? I guess just how would you switch between the headphones and speakers, such as turn the one you are not using off, when using an amp with a line out?


 
  
 I believe the Magni's line-output (RCA) are disabled when headphones are plugged into the Magni's headphone jack.
 But you might want to double check on that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And I believe it's a pre-out, not a line out.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> E5 can connect straight to PS4 USB for chat audio. In fact you don't even need an optical connector, though connecting to PS4 USB and optical lets you individually control the volume level for game (optical) and chat (USB) if you use the Sound Blaster smartphone/tablet app.



That's even better



sam21 said:


> can the X7 do the exact same thing as the E5 ? and if not, why ?



Appearently the X7 has too complicated usb firmware for the ps4 to handle.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mad lust envy said:


> And I believe it's a pre-out, not a line out.


 
  
 Yea, pre-out.


----------



## shuto77

For anyone, especially @evshrug, @yethal, or @madlustenvy: If you've used both the E5 and X7,does the latter sound noticeably better? I know they share many of the same internal components, except the speaker amp in the X7. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. 

I'm considering liquidating all my gear except the Fidelio X2 and my Piston 3, because this is headfi, and this what we do. Lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why don't you just wait for the G5? It's the E5 with proper SBX (aka 5.1 -> "binaural" stereo)


----------



## trogdor796

So if I waited for the creative, would that completely bypass my Xonar DX, since it's an external sound card AND headphone amp?
  
 Is it compatible with PS4 and Xbox One? Would I also need a mixamp in that case for chat on consoles?


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> For anyone, especially @evshrug, @yethal, or @madlustenvy: If you've used both the E5 and X7,does the latter sound noticeably better? I know they share many of the same internal components, except the speaker amp in the X7. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
> 
> I'm considering liquidating all my gear except the Fidelio X2 and my Piston 3, because this is headfi, and this what we do. Lol


 
 I haven't used the E5 personally, I have the X7. My previous posts regarding the E5 were based on the official specs posted on Creative's website.


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> For anyone, especially @evshrug, @yethal, or @madlustenvy: If you've used both the E5 and X7,does the latter sound noticeably better? I know they share many of the same internal components, except the speaker amp in the X7. Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
> 
> I'm considering liquidating all my gear except the Fidelio X2 and my Piston 3, because this is headfi, and this what we do. Lol



The X7's DAC chip is better, and you can roll opamps. The DAC chip in the E5 is the same Cirrus Logic chip as used in most Astell & Kern portable players, so it's pretty good too.




fegefeuer said:


> Why don't you just wait for the G5? It's the E5 with proper SBX (aka 5.1 -> "binaural" stereo)



The E5 has proper SBX too, just cannot decode Dolby on its own. On PC, it can play 2D surround (7.1 etc) or 3D surround if the game supports OpenAL.


----------



## Yethal

Really makes me wonder why the hell are the A&K players so expensive.


----------



## inseconds99

I have not been keeping up with this but what is so positive about the G5 if someone were to already have the X7? I am assuming that the chat function will not work on consoles and it will be a less powerful amplifier. I'm assuming portability is its strong point?


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> I have not been keeping up with this but what is so positive about the G5 if someone were to already have the X7? I am assuming that the chat function will not work on consoles and it will be a less powerful amplifier. I'm assuming portability is its strong point?


 
 It's advertised as fully console-compatible  so we're assuming that chat is going to work (and going to be a less PITA than chat on the X7). Portability is actually a strong point as I don't imagine ever hauling the X7 to a LAN.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> It's advertised as fully console-compatible  so we're assuming that chat is going to work (and going to be a less PITA than chat on the X7). Portability is actually a strong point as I don't imagine ever hauling the X7 to a LAN.


 
 If its console compatible I will be trading/selling my x7 for a real headphone or cash towards an amp for my th900 and the HD800s (when it comes out) and ordering a g5 for myself for gaming.


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> I have not been keeping up with this but what is so positive about the G5 if someone were to already have the X7? I am assuming that the chat function will not work on consoles and it will be a less powerful amplifier. I'm assuming portability is its strong point?



E5's chat function already works (quite well) with the PS4, the amp may be set up to use less power but the main amp chip is the same as used in the X7.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> E5's chat function already works (quite well) with the PS4, the amp may be set up to use less power but the main amp chip is the same as used in the X7.


 
 If it works with the Xbox One as well I will 100% be purchasing and selling the X7 and putting the money towards a dedicated amp.


----------



## canthearyou

I can't wait for the G5 to come out!


----------



## Helvetica bold

Speaking of the G5, whats going on? Its supposed to come out this month and we still don't know that much about it. 
 I don't know even if we will see it this year.


----------



## trogdor796

So assuming the G5 is cross platform, and works on both PS4, Xbox One, and PC, what else would I need in addition to that and my K7XX's?
  
 Would I still use my DX in my PC or not, since this is an amp AND an external sound card?
  
 Would I need a mixamp to balance game and chat audio too?
  
 Hopefully we get some info soon as my K7XX's are shipping on 11/20, and I'd like to get an amp for them by the end of November.
  
 If this can work as a solution for both consoles and a PC setup that would be great, because if I need to buy to separate setups(minus headphones) for PC and consoles I'll just stick with my A50's for console use.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Is this a good buy $99?
 https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sound-blasterx-h5-valencia-cf-edition-headset#/


----------



## DagsJT

I've currently got an Astro Mixamp plugged into my Xbox One via optical and USB to my PC, playing through a pair of AKG K612's. Is the Mixamp giving me a good representation of my K612's and what they should sound like?

 I've seen someone else mention that they use a Sound Blaster E5 but not sure how much difference it would make considering it would cost me over £100 to replace the Mixamp.

 Any advice?


----------



## Yethal

dagsjt said:


> I've currently got an Astro Mixamp plugged into my Xbox One via optical and USB to my PC, playing through a pair of AKG K612's. Is the Mixamp giving me a good representation of my K612's and what they should sound like?
> 
> 
> I've seen someone else mention that they use a Sound Blaster E5 but not sure how much difference it would make considering it would cost me over £100 to replace the Mixamp.
> ...



Read the first post of this thread.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Anyone tried those new Creative gaming headphones or Corsair Void Wireless?


----------



## DagsJT

yethal said:


> Read the first post of this thread.


 
  
  I've read it a number of times but I was hoping for something more specific to my situation. Also the first page doesn't mention amps like the E5 so hoping someone had some advice more relative to me and with experience of kit not mentioned in the first post.


----------



## Yethal

dagsjt said:


> I've read it a number of times but I was hoping for something more specific to my situation. Also the first page doesn't mention amps like the E5 so hoping someone had some advice more relative to me and with experience of kit not mentioned in the first post.


 
 First post does specifically mention the K612 as needing additional amping, and even gives some recommendations on budget amps. You can find the E5 review on @Evshrug's profile.


----------



## bavinck

yethal said:


> First post does specifically mention the K612 as needing additional amping, and even gives some recommendations on budget amps. You can find the E5 review on @Evshrug's profile.


 
 There is a HUGE amount of info in the first post, and not everyone has experience at dissecting that amount of info. Just answer his question if you can or don't bother replying. The first post is very helpful, but it is not the bible


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> If it works with the Xbox One as well I will 100% be purchasing and selling the X7 and putting the money towards a dedicated amp.



If you just want stereo sound... the E5 right now can take stereo input through optical (set the XBO to output PCM), but because MicroSoft is so [insert colorful word here] greedy you will need some separate chat solution. M$ requires a $35 or so royalty fee from the accessory manufacturer for _each_ unit sold. So if Creative made G5 capable of connecting to XBO's non-Bluetooth wireless by adding an extra module, or USB, and sold 500 units, M$ would hold out its hand and demand $17,500 from Creative for the privledge of fixing the XBO's connectivity problem. If you've got some DIY skills you can splice together a long y-adapter to join the M$ chat adapter and output of the E5 or other device, but apparently the chat adapter cannot be manually set and sometimes will auto-decide to steal game audio too.

That, plus all of the initial "online only" and snide comments of an executive, and that some system update removed DVD playback from my 360 randomly, makes me say [colorful language] to the executive team at Xbox making these decisions, and I give up on trying to support them. The new controller and several of the XBO features are awesome (some clearly talented engineers and programmers), but my condolences to everybody who got XBone'd.

*TL;DR rant: I highly doubt Creative went through the expensive process of adding native chat support for the XBone.*





canthearyou said:


> I can't wait for the G5 to come out!



Same!




helvetica bold said:


> Speaking of the G5, whats going on? Its supposed to come out this month and we still don't know that much about it.
> I don't know even if we will see it this year.



They said before that it should be the end of November/early December, similar production schedule as the X7.


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> There is a HUGE amount of info in the first post, and not everyone has experience at dissecting that amount of info. Just answer his question if you can or don't bother replying. The first post is very helpful, but it is not the bible


 
 But it contains a lot of useful info and is a recommended lecture for anyone making their first step in virtual surround gaming.


----------



## trogdor796

So I should just stick with my Astro A50s for Xbox use? There's no official or correct way to get my K7XX's working with it? It seems there's no solid solution to use headphones and get chat and surround from the Xbox one, at least nobody here has posted any. Very disappointing on microsofts part.





evshrug said:


> If you just want stereo sound... the E5 right now can take stereo input through optical (set the XBO to output PCM), but because MicroSoft is so [insert colorful word here] greedy you will need some separate chat solution. M$ requires a $35 or so royalty fee from the accessory manufacturer for _each_ unit sold. So if Creative made G5 capable of connecting to XBO's non-Bluetooth wireless by adding an extra module, or USB, and sold 500 units, M$ would hold out its hand and demand $17,500 from Creative for the privledge of fixing the XBO's connectivity problem. If you've got some DIY skills you can splice together a long y-adapter to join the M$ chat adapter and output of the E5 or other device, but apparently the chat adapter cannot be manually set and sometimes will auto-decide to steal game audio too.
> 
> That, plus all of the initial "online only" and snide comments of an executive, and that some system update removed DVD playback from my 360 randomly, makes me say [colorful language] to the executive team at Xbox making these decisions, and I give up on trying to support them. The new controller and several of the XBO features are awesome (some clearly talented engineers and programmers), but my condolences to everybody who got XBone'd.
> 
> ...


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> If you just want stereo sound... the E5 right now can take stereo input through optical (set the XBO to output PCM), but because MicroSoft is so [insert colorful word here] greedy you will need some separate chat solution. M$ requires a $35 or so royalty fee from the accessory manufacturer for _each_ unit sold. So if Creative made G5 capable of connecting to XBO's non-Bluetooth wireless by adding an extra module, or USB, and sold 500 units, M$ would hold out its hand and demand $17,500 from Creative for the privledge of fixing the XBO's connectivity problem. If you've got some DIY skills you can splice together a long y-adapter to join the M$ chat adapter and output of the E5 or other device, but apparently the chat adapter cannot be manually set and sometimes will auto-decide to steal game audio too.
> 
> That, plus all of the initial "online only" and snide comments of an executive, and that some system update removed DVD playback from my 360 randomly, makes me say [colorful language] to the executive team at Xbox making these decisions, and I give up on trying to support them. The new controller and several of the XBO features are awesome (some clearly talented engineers and programmers), but my condolences to everybody who got XBone'd.
> 
> ...


 
 35 bucks a unit? That's Apple-level insanity right here. No wonder why there are so few third party chat options for XBO the do not rely on the 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Evshrug

dagsjt said:


> I've read it a number of times but I was hoping for something more specific to my situation.






bavinck said:


> There is a HUGE amount of info in the first post, and not everyone has experience at dissecting that amount of info. Just answer his question if you can or don't bother replying. The first post is very helpful, but it is not the bible




I can understand this perspective, indeed there is a lot of info on the guide post. Sometimes it's enough to skip to the conclusion or just the scores... but if you see a headphone that catches your fancy, it's worth reading.

The K612 review has a clearly labeled (with a title in bold and underlined) Amping section right after the sound impressions and right before personal recommendation and final impressions. Clearly as in hard to miss, if you read the post multiple times or even just once. Mad specifically says "For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic." He goes on to suggest picking an amp with neutral to warm-sounding amp to keep from pushing the K612 into fatiguing territory.

From the perspectives of those regular to this thread (many of whom have left), we often see the same questions asked again and again. Though each new poster asks for a personalized reply, it's aggravating to the posters with experience in this area because the answer to their question literally is already written, and the same questions cycle through again and again, as if this thread was customer support. Now, I'm still here because I get something out of hearing about new products or sharing new info I find, but I can understand others who point out the answers in the first post... because that was the point of the first post anyway, as a reference. I have to imagine a lot of people do read the guide and do get their questions answered, occasionally I see new posters announcing their plans and excitement, and their impressions on how they like their new gear (which I do enjoy reading!).

If you want see what made this thread fun, go back to posts two years ago, where MLE was buying and reviewing new headphones like mad, people were coming here for news and posting their own suggestions and comedy, and yeah we had people asking about amping or computer stuff that was out of scope but there was enough other stuff going on that the pace was going pretty quick. Nowadays... Well, I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying the last guide update was half a year ago.


----------



## Evshrug

trogdor796 said:


> So I should just stick with my Astro A50s for Xbox use? There's no official or correct way to get my K7XX's working with it? It seems there's no solid solution to use headphones and get chat and surround from the Xbox one, at least nobody here has posted any. Very disappointing on microsofts part.



Before he left, Stillhart had some solution with his XBone, connecting the controller to the accessory wire that came with the Recon3D, and you can do the same thing with a 3.5mm input on the Mixamp. I saw someone else mod the XBOne headset adapter to just have a mic. It's just like the 360 setup days, except back then you had the option of just putting a mic in your controller and just having all the audio go to "speakers" or your headphone, no real need to connect controller and headphone. Yethal has a similar setup now, I actually forget if he just has a PS4 or if he has an XBOne too, probably the best resource for that right now.




yethal said:


> 35 bucks a unit? That's Apple-level insanity right here. No wonder why there are so few third party chat options for XBO the do not rely on the 3.5mm jack.



Yup. I had the same reaction when I learned that... Considering some of the "native" 3rd party solutions don't cost too much for the market to bear, they must have both slim profits and cheap components.


----------



## Yethal

Well, I did at one point read the first post in its entirety. It's an amazing source of information and actually a pretty good read. Most of my audio-based decisions were based on the feedback from the thread regulars. Well, thanks to Mad and all those other people I'm a happy gamer.
 While I understand that the amount of information can be a bit overwhelming I used to work as a customer support rep for a video game and I got frustrated whenever I had tickets that could be answered by literally copy-pasting an article from our FAQ. Over time I got used to it but it was still annoying.
  
 As for the chat setup, I used cable from this diagram and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable (about 3 bucks on ebay) to have voice chat on my PS4. Should work without a hitch with Xbox too.


----------



## bavinck

I agree with you guys that the first post is excellent. I also agree this thread is getting stale. Honestly, I am only still subbed so I don't miss info on the upcoming g5 lol..


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I put my DSP reviews in my own thread, in my signature and here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal
I think I'll get one early December, hope to review it promptly  I've done a few headphone reviews too, but I doubt I'll ever get the breadth of reviews that Mad has.


----------



## bavinck

evshrug said:


> Well, I put my DSP reviews in my own thread, in my signature and here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal
> I think I'll get one early December, hope to review it promptly  I've done a few headphone reviews too, but I doubt I'll ever get the breadth of reviews that Mad has.




If it priced right, with good sound and dsp (noise floor in the mixamp sucks) and can handle chat properly for ps4 I am all in


----------



## DagsJT

evshrug said:


> I can understand this perspective, indeed there is a lot of info on the guide post. Sometimes it's enough to skip to the conclusion or just the scores... but if you see a headphone that catches your fancy, it's worth reading.
> 
> The K612 review has a clearly labeled (with a title in bold and underlined) Amping section right after the sound impressions and right before personal recommendation and final impressions. Clearly as in hard to miss, if you read the post multiple times or even just once. Mad specifically says "For gaming, you can forget about using the K612 Pro off the Mixamp alone if you attempt to use a mic." He goes on to suggest picking an amp with neutral to warm-sounding amp to keep from pushing the K612 into fatiguing territory.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Cheers Evshrug. I've read the first post so many times, in fact it was a big part in my choosing to buy the K612's to begin with. And I knew they needed amping, hence I bought a Fiio E10k at the same time. However I'm now looking at replacing two devices (Mixamp and E10k) with one and having less clutter etc. So even though I understand the guide suggesting they need amping, there's so much choice with amps now.
  
 As you say at the end, it's not been updated recently and I've read your very good review of the E5 which has thrown a spanner in the works as previously I'd not even heard of the E5 (it's not in the guide on the front page) so I was hoping people maybe had experience of different amps, some of which won't be mentioned by MLE at all given when the guide was updated.
  
 I do know how annoying it is to find people asking the same questions, I'm on another forum where one thread has the same question over and over, with the reply being to look on the front page. The thing there is that the front page does have the info, but MLE's guide is missing some amps etc. I've read through a good ton of the pages on this thread when I was researching headphones and it was a massive help. But the thread seems more based on headphones themselves rather than amps and combinations.
  
 I appreciate advice either way though and I really appreciate the mass of posts before hand for helping me choose the K612's to begin with.


----------



## Evshrug

DagsJT,
You could've taken my rant poorly, my sincere thanks because I think you get it that I didn't intend it as criticism or personal remark... Just kind of the state of the thread.

Your second to last sentence sums up the thread very well! While this thread was started talking about gaming with surround, the guide is focused on headphones good with that. In my thread, well... I defined it much less categorically, just dropping info on things I learned along the way, though headphone surround fascinates me and I tend to focus on that. I'm trying to make a YouTube series of reviews and setup guides on headphone surround DSPs, like the Mixamp and G5, and I'll start putting out videos in a playlist on that theme soon. As far as amps go... Some of the DSPs I've tried had pretty good amps and DACs built-in, so you don't need extra gear, but I'd say there are INDEED TONS of amp choices out there. I've tried like... three, but I haven't tested a ton of them, so I highly recommend checking out the very great first-hand owner reviews of different amps here on Head-Fi. 

That's one of the things I liked about Mad's reviews: he recognized that there are many very good amp options, so he just made suggestions on what character of amp would synergise well with the particular headphone and gaming audio. I think explaining the thought process in picking amp synergy and what to look for in an amp review would make a helpful article in my "if I knew..." thread, hmm... just give me a few minutes to do some chores first! But anyway, I recommend checking out amp reviews and seeing what's cool, and hopefully the reviewer is good enough to describe the cons/benefits without too much hype (but a little hype is fun if it isn't an outright lie).

Thanks for the comments on my E5 review! Stuff like that encourages me to keep going, hopefully one day I can get paid to do it and I can make a job of it


----------



## Evshrug

bavinck said:


> If it priced right, with good sound and dsp (noise floor in the mixamp sucks) and can handle chat properly for ps4 I am all in




http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12069785


----------



## bavinck

evshrug said:


> The E5 is $200 (though sometimes on sale), the G5 is adding at least one feature to this, so we'll see about price. If the G5 truly is based on the E5, then the noise floor is inaudible on 32 ohm and up headphones, so that'll be quite good, though the noise floor is audible on my IEMs. The E1 is silent with my IEMs and has a much longer battery life, buuuuuuut it doesn't do justice with harder to drive headphones, like the E5 can. Optimized gear selection! Btw the E1 is still stronger than the PS4 controller jack's amp



Good to know, thanks for the info. I have never heard if the e1 before, I will check it out. Sometimes I would prefer to use iems when gaming solo.


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> If you just want stereo sound... the E5 right now can take stereo input through optical (set the XBO to output PCM), but because MicroSoft is so [insert colorful word here] greedy you will need some separate chat solution. M$ requires a $35 or so royalty fee from the accessory manufacturer for _each_ unit sold. So if Creative made G5 capable of connecting to XBO's non-Bluetooth wireless by adding an extra module, or USB, and sold 500 units, M$ would hold out its hand and demand $17,500 from Creative for the privledge of fixing the XBO's connectivity problem. If you've got some DIY skills you can splice together a long y-adapter to join the M$ chat adapter and output of the E5 or other device, but apparently the chat adapter cannot be manually set and sometimes will auto-decide to steal game audio too.
> 
> That, plus all of the initial "online only" and snide comments of an executive, and that some system update removed DVD playback from my 360 randomly, makes me say [colorful language] to the executive team at Xbox making these decisions, and I give up on trying to support them. The new controller and several of the XBO features are awesome (some clearly talented engineers and programmers), but my condolences to everybody who got XBone'd.
> 
> ...


 
 I am hoping that they buck that trend and offer the chat support because right now I have all of my gaming consoles hooked up to my BenQ gaming monitor which is also connected to my PC. I then have all of the consoles and my PC connected to my X7. I turn on my windows 10 PC and I setup a party chat and leave my PC on. I then turn on my Xbox and setup a game so I can chat and game using my X7 with no additional cables. BUT there is an issue, I constantly get random popping when I do this occasionally and I am afraid this popping is going to destroy my headphones. I don't notice this popping when I am just PC gaming but seems to only happen when I am using my console and my PC at the same time. Its almost like when the X7 is trying to process sound from the USB and the optical at the same time the processor lags and causes a popping noise to catch up. 
  
 Anyone have similar issues? Not looking to blow up $1000+ headphones on this X7.
  
 If the G5 works with chat on both consoles. I could use that directly and have no ******** rigged up setup to get chat working. I can eliminate the X7 (nothing wrong with it but it doesn't play well when processing sound from 2 sources simultaneously) use optical out from my onboard sound card which has SBX to dac/amp and have access to SBX while also having much improved equipment for music..


----------



## bavinck

evshrug said:


> The E5 is $200 (though sometimes on sale), the G5 is adding at least one feature to this, so we'll see about price. If the G5 truly is based on the E5, then the noise floor is inaudible on 32 ohm and up headphones, so that'll be quite good, though the noise floor is audible on my IEMs. The E1 is silent with my IEMs and has a much longer battery life, buuuuuuut it doesn't do justice with harder to drive headphones, like the E5 can. Optimized gear selection! Btw the E1 is still stronger than the PS4 controller jack's amp



So, does e1 dsp work with ps4? What about chat? Can you point me to your review? Tried looking for it....


----------



## trogdor796

yethal said:


> Well, I did at one point read the first post in its entirety. It's an amazing source of information and actually a pretty good read. Most of my audio-based decisions were based on the feedback from the thread regulars. Well, thanks to Mad and all those other people I'm a happy gamer.
> While I understand that the amount of information can be a bit overwhelming I used to work as a customer support rep for a video game and I got frustrated whenever I had tickets that could be answered by literally copy-pasting an article from our FAQ. Over time I got used to it but it was still annoying.
> 
> *As for the chat setup, I used cable from this diagram and a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable (about 3 bucks on ebay) to have voice chat on my PS4. Should work without a hitch with Xbox too.*


 
 Thank you for posting the diagram, exactly what I was looking for. But I did have a few questions on it. I see that diagram is for the 360, which I never owned, but I'm assuming it can be applied to the PS4 and Xbox one?
  
 So it's cables A and B are USB and Optical, respectively, going from the Xbox...into what? Then it looks like a mic and headphone Y cable going from that device into another device. From there, looks like a 3.5mm - 2.5mm going to the xbox 360 controller and also mic and headphone Y cable going to headphones.
  
 Can identify the devices for me please? Is one a Mixamp and one an amp? And since the PS4 and 360 don't have 2.5mm ports on their controller, what is the 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable used for with an Xbox one and PS4?
  
 Sorry but I'm literally clueless about how chat and game audio work with the consoles. Right now I use my PS4 and Xbox One with a receiver and my Astro A50's, plug and play no wires or amps or other devices going everywhere, which I don't mind I just don't know how to set it up. If I could get a chart like that but with each device and cable labeled that would be awesome, or if one exists somewhere and you could direct me to it.


----------



## Yethal

trogdor796 said:


> Thank you for posting the diagram, exactly what I was looking for. But I did have a few questions on it. I see that diagram is for the 360, which I never owned, but I'm assuming it can be applied to the PS4 and Xbox one?
> 
> So it's cables A and B are USB and Optical, respectively, going from the Xbox...into what? Then it looks like a mic and headphone Y cable going from that device into another device. From there, looks like a 3.5mm - 2.5mm going to the xbox 360 controller and also mic and headphone Y cable going to headphones.
> 
> ...


 
 Cables A and B are going into SoundBlaster Recon 3D surround processor but due to exact same inputs it can be substituted with any other gaming DSP.
 The important part is the cable D which has two 3.5mm male jacks on one end, and three jacks (2 x 3.5mm mic and headphones and a 2.5mm chat jack) on the other end. Use the headphone jack to plug either headphones or an amp, the mic input to connect the microphone and the 2.5mm jack input to connect to the PS4 or Xbox one 3.5mm headphone jack with a cable such as this one. While the diagram shows an Xbox 360 controller, a PS4 or an Xbox One Controller can be put in its place. 

  

  

 Found some connection diagrams posted here previously.


----------



## Evshrug

bavinck said:


> So, does e1 dsp work with ps4? What about chat? Can you point me to your review? Tried looking for it....




Sorry, meant to edit. Full reply to your earlier post here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12069785

And no, the E-series can apply DSP settings but cannot decode Dolby or DTS, and a USB connection to PS4 merely gives stereo audio (which can be processed but won't have accurate positional audio).

My E1 review and all my other reviews are linked in the first post of my thread... First post is like a table of contents, so people can freely comment and discuss but I'll always put the right link to an "article" on the table of contents.


----------



## canthearyou

evshrug said:


> Sorry, meant to edit. Full reply to your earlier post here:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12069785
> 
> And no, the E-series can apply DSP settings but cannot decode Dolby or DTS, and a USB connection to PS4 merely gives stereo audio (which can be processed but won't have accurate positional audio).
> ...




But the G5 can decode DTS and Dolby, correct?


----------



## MattKelly

Speaking of the G5, I've been contacting Creative on Twitter and they finally got back to me. Super disappointed to hear that it's been pushed back from November to December.

 https://twitter.com/soundblaster/status/663598599515697152


----------



## grownasssman

mattkelly said:


> Speaking of the G5, I've been contacting Creative on Twitter and they finally got back to me. Super disappointed to hear that it's been pushed back from November to December.
> 
> https://twitter.com/soundblaster/status/663598599515697152




Finally some info but that "dec?" Has me kind of worried we won't see it till February


----------



## bavinck

Let them get it right. Better late and right.


----------



## rudyae86

bavinck said:


> Let them get it right. Better late and right.


 

 I agree. Nobody wants it on day one full of bugs and inconveniences cough*X7*cough....too obvious i think lol


----------



## grownasssman

rudyae86 said:


> I agree. Nobody wants it on day one full of bugs and inconveniences cough*X7*cough....too obvious i think lol




I signed up for that 30% of coupon so I'll probably have it day one lol I'll chronicle the heartache on here. Hopefully it comes out before January 31st just in case it's good enough for me to return my mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

inseconds99 said:


> I am hoping that they buck that trend and offer the chat support because right now I have all of my gaming consoles hooked up to my BenQ gaming monitor which is also connected to my PC. I then have all of the consoles and my PC connected to my X7. I turn on my windows 10 PC and I setup a party chat and leave my PC on. I then turn on my Xbox and setup a game so I can chat and game using my X7 with no additional cables. BUT there is an issue, I constantly get random popping when I do this occasionally and I am afraid this popping is going to destroy my headphones. I don't notice this popping when I am just PC gaming but seems to only happen when I am using my console and my PC at the same time. Its almost like when the X7 is trying to process sound from the USB and the optical at the same time the processor lags and causes a popping noise to catch up.
> 
> Anyone have similar issues? Not looking to blow up $1000+ headphones on this X7.
> 
> If the G5 works with chat on both consoles. I could use that directly and have no ******** rigged up setup to get chat working. I can eliminate the X7 (nothing wrong with it but it doesn't play well when processing sound from 2 sources simultaneously) use optical out from my onboard sound card which has SBX to dac/amp and have access to SBX while also having much improved equipment for music..




Replied here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12070928


----------



## Evshrug

canthearyou said:


> But the G5 can decode DTS and Dolby, correct?







mattkelly said:


> Speaking of the G5, I've been contacting Creative on Twitter and they finally got back to me. Super disappointed to hear that it's been pushed back from November to December.
> 
> https://twitter.com/soundblaster/status/663598599515697152







grownasssman said:


> Finally some info but that "dec?" Has me kind of worried we won't see it till February







bavinck said:


> Let them get it right. Better late and right.







rudyae86 said:


> I agree. Nobody wants it on day one full of bugs and inconveniences cough*X7*cough....too obvious i think lol







grownasssman said:


> I signed up for that 30% of coupon so I'll probably have it day one lol I'll chronicle the heartache on here. Hopefully it comes out before January 31st just in case it's good enough for me to return my mixamp.




More replies here:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12070949


----------



## Mr Bee

Hi after reading endless threads and posts all over the net. I've narrowed it down to x2, hd598 maybe get hd558 and mod them to be hd598 seems way enough. For ps4 mixamp and boom pro. Are the x2 so much better than the hd598 or modded hd558's to warrant the extra cash? I like the look of the x2 more than the hd598's. They are not ugly just remind me of a 1970's car interior. All help greatly received.


----------



## conquerator2

Yay! Been complaining about the mic output being too low? Behold, the software that comes with my Roland has an output gain adjustment. 3db does the trick right now.
 Awesome! The Quad-capture was not the cheapest interface, but it sure is all I need.
 Happiest camper right now


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X2 is definitely better than those Sennheisers. ALso 558 mod doesn't turn them into 598, it makes them CLOSER to 598. Either way, I actually prefer unmodded 558 obver legit 598. Haven't heard the 558 modded, just know what to expect from reliable sources whotested 558 mod vs 598 side by side.


So my X2 is about to sell, and I ordered my PMX95, and luckily found a deal on a new pair of Senn MM100s, which have gone for $200+, but a seller sold a new pair for $100. So with the X2 sale, I ended up with two headphones I wanted.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mr bee said:


> Hi after reading endless threads and posts all over the net. I've narrowed it down to x2, hd598 maybe get hd558 and mod them to be hd598 seems way enough. For ps4 mixamp and boom pro. Are the x2 so much better than the hd598 or modded hd558's to warrant the extra cash? I like the look of the x2 more than the hd598's. They are not ugly just remind me of a 1970's car interior. All help greatly received.


 
  
 Guessing the modded HD558 do not sound exactly like the HD598, maybe somewhere in between.
 I own the modded HD558, but never listened to the HD598.
 I'm fairly sure the Philips Fidelio sound better then the HD558/HD598 (but never listened to the Fidelio myself)
 If these headphones are to be used for music, then getting the Philips might be worth it.
 If your just looking for gaming headphones, then get the HD558.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X2 is more dynamic sounding and engaging than either of those Senns. There is no reason why I would recommend the Senns over the X2 other than budget limits. Love the 558 for what it is at it's price, but you're moving up a tier with the X2 and stuff like the K7XX, etc.


----------



## Mr Bee

Going too see if any x2's come up at the right price. Either brand new from store or very good condition on either auction site or on here. I'm in no rush as I have a adequate headset for now. Just wanted to upgrade. I started looking at the usual suspects a40's. Then read about mix amp and pc headsets. Now I've settled on mixamp and headphone boompro combo. Things have changed in last couple of weeks. I've even ended up joining a headphone forum lol. Was trying to get my head round headphone amps earlier  
 So who knows what's next after my gaming set up is sorted lol


----------



## cmclnd

FOLLOW-UP:
  
 In the end, here's what I did for my PS4 setup:
  
 Headphones: 
  
 1. Schiit Magni 2 Headphone Amplifier: http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-0702-Magni-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00SCBKPW2
 2. Astro Mixamp Pro TR for PS4: http://www.amazon.com/MixAmp-Pro-TR-PS4-Black/dp/B014H2W1YO/
 3. RCA to 3.5mm splitter: http://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-3-5mm-Stereo-Audio-Cable/dp/B008UG6GCC/
 4a. AKG K702 Headphones: http://www.amazon.com/AKG-Pro-Audio-K702-Headphones/dp/B001RCD2DW/
 4b. Superlux HD688B Headphones for good measure: http://www.amazon.com/Superlux-HD668B-Dynamic-Semi-Open-Headphones/dp/B003JOETX8/
  
 I've read so many great things about the Superlux HD688B's that I had to score a pair on top of my AKG's. I absolutely prefer the AKG's for gaming, but for music and movies the Superlux's are incredible. For $40, they're worth every damn penny. I did 80 hours of break in with Youtube videos on full volume. Before the break-in they were incredibly tinny, but now sound beautiful. The AKG's are the best headphones I've ever had the pleasure to listen to, and I've tested quite a few. I play a lot of Call of Duty, and they just can't be beat. The Q701's are also amazing, but they're a bit bassier and more for music than anything else. The K702's are much better for Call of Duty games and the like.
  
 --
  
 Microphone:
  
 1. Behringer Xenyx 802 Microphone Mixer: http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-802-Premium-8-Input-Preamps/dp/B000J5XS3C/
 2. Sendt XLR Male/Female 24 AWG Cable: http://www.amazon.com/Sendt-Foot-Female-Microphone-cable/dp/B008B2AA1I/
 3. Ugreen 3.5mm TRS/4.5mm TS Mono Splitter Cable: http://www.amazon.com/Y-Cable-Splitter-Computer-Multimedia-Speakers/dp/B00ZKM3S4S/
 4a. Behringer C-3 Microphone: http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-C-3-BEHRINGER/dp/B000KUA8EI/
 4b. If you really want quality, go for the Audio-Technica AT2020 Microphone for $40 more: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2020-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B0006H92QK/
  
 The microphone setup has been a hassle. Phantom power alone is not a workable solution for activating these microphones sufficiently for the Astro Mixamp on console gaming platforms. I tried, and it didn't work. Initially I attempted to power the microphone with a Behringer PS400 phantom power supply. It didn't come close to meeting the impedence of the microphone, and the signal to the Astro Mixamp was distorted and no one could understand me. I wanted a standalone microphone, not a clip-on boom microphone, so I could have it sit on my desk and never have to mess with it. 
  
 There may be cheaper options for the Mic Mixer, but this one is beautiful and does everything I need it to do. The sound is crisp and clear for my party members. It actually does a relatively good job at drowning out noise, but it'll pick up a lot more than a standard headset mic would so be careful if you go this route.
  
 --
  
 Note 1: Make sure you grab some good quality foam microphone windshields to drown out ambient sounds from A/C, fans, drafts, etc. 
 Note 2: If you snag a pair of the Superlux's, make sure to grab some replacement ear covers because the covers they come stock with are pretty worthless. I grabbed these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KLPRQMO/
  
 This isn't a cheap setup, but I love it and it's mine and it works amazingly.
  
 --
  
 There is no doubt this setup would never have come into fruition if not for the help of all of you audiophile know-it-alls. Thank you so much, this forum is ****ing amazing!


----------



## Hansotek

mr bee said:


> Hi after reading endless threads and posts all over the net. I've narrowed it down to x2, hd598 maybe get hd558 and mod them to be hd598 seems way enough. For ps4 mixamp and boom pro. Are the x2 so much better than the hd598 or modded hd558's to warrant the extra cash? I like the look of the x2 more than the hd598's. They are not ugly just remind me of a 1970's car interior. All help greatly received.



I second MLE and Purple Angel's comments - the Philips Fidelios will serve you much better than the HD598. I still use the X1 all the time for gaming. I sold the HD598 a long time ago.


----------



## Mr Bee

Yeah I value all your opinions I am now definitely going for the x2's. I'm going to order the boom pro tomorrow and the mixamps ready and waiting. Just seen some x2's on coolshop.co.uk but seen a lot of bad feedback for the site and apparently they are a Danish company?? Any one ordered from these? If they are bandits I'll bide my time till I can get a good deal elsewhere.


----------



## Evshrug

HOLY CRAP CMCLND!
You, sir, win the title of adapter-master!

What kind of mic/chat setup would you use with an XBOne, eh? Just in case you feel like tackling another challenge


----------



## trogdor796

A bit of an add on to what evshrug asked, what's the difference between that mixamp linked and the white one that's labeled as for Xbox one? Do you honestly need two different ones, one for each console?


----------



## Yethal

mr bee said:


> Hi after reading endless threads and posts all over the net. I've narrowed it down to x2, hd598 maybe get hd558 and mod them to be hd598 seems way enough. For ps4 mixamp and boom pro. Are the x2 so much better than the hd598 or modded hd558's to warrant the extra cash? I like the look of the x2 more than the hd598's. They are not ugly just remind me of a 1970's car interior. All help greatly received.



X2 will be easier to connect to the boompro


----------



## Mr Bee

yethal said:


> X2 will be easier to connect to the boompro




Yes thanks. I bought the adapter for the sennheiser just in case. But I'm going for the x2's now


----------



## Yethal

trogdor796 said:


> A bit of an add on to what evshrug asked, what's the difference between that mixamp linked and the white one that's labeled as for Xbox one? Do you honestly need two different ones, one for each console?



The new mixamp TR has usb chat functionality for XB1. However it is now either XB1 or PS4 compatible. Not both at once.

I have a strange feeling that you guys are trying to shame me into buying an X2.


----------



## cmclnd

evshrug said:


> HOLY CRAP CMCLND!
> You, sir, win the title of adapter-master!
> 
> What kind of mic/chat setup would you use with an XBOne, eh? Just in case you feel like tackling another challenge


 
  
 I'm not familiar with the Xbox One but assuming the USB ports function much the same as the Playstation 4 I'd do the exact same thing, except instead of the Astro Mixamp TR Pro for PS4, I'd get the Astro Mixamp TR Pro for Xbox One.


----------



## cmclnd

trogdor796 said:


> A bit of an add on to what evshrug asked, what's the difference between that mixamp linked and the white one that's labeled as for Xbox one? Do you honestly need two different ones, one for each console?


 
  
 Yes. I'm not entirely sure why, but if I was going to wager a guess it'd have something to do with voice chat.


----------



## cmclnd

I'm wondering if it a microphone preamp might clean up the mic sound a bit. Any advice on this front?


----------



## DagsJT

Any recommendations between X1's, DT990's or HP200’s?

I currently have K612's but looking for something with a bit more bass and more fun. I also have a Mixamp. Main usage is immersion in games with some music mainly being rap and rock.

I might be able to get the DT990's for half of the price of the X1's but concerned about the treble peaking. Or any other headphones that are less analytical than the K612's but fun and good soundstage?


----------



## PurpleAngel

dagsjt said:


> Any recommendations between X1's, DT990's or HP200’s?
> I currently have K612's but looking for something with a bit more bass and more fun. I also have a Mix-amp. Main usage is immersion in games with some music mainly being rap and rock.
> I might be able to get the DT990's for half of the price of the X1's but concerned about the treble peaking. Or any other headphones that are less analytical than the K612's but fun and good sound stage?


 
  
 What is the Mix-amp connected to?    PC or gaming console? (details)
  
 I would not consider the Mix-amp of bring out the best in the K612 Pro, or any other headphone.
 Not really trying to knock the Mix-amp, for what it is, but there is better.


----------



## DagsJT

purpleangel said:


> What is the Mix-amp connected to?    PC or gaming console? (details)
> 
> I would not consider the Mix-amp of bring out the best in the K612 Pro, or any other headphone.
> Not really trying to knock the Mix-amp, for what it is, but there is better.




Connected to PCvia USB and Xbox One via optical. I get the impression that the Mixamp isn't great and might be able to get the Sound Blaster E5 instead. It would either be a case of new headphones or the E5. Unless I went for the cheaper DT990's and I could maybe get the E5 as well.

I've got some Samson SR850's and prefer the sound of those to the K612's, the bass and tone fit better for me.


----------



## starscream00

just a question, but why is no one using or recommending the sennheiser  game zero? Is it bad? i am considering buying those,


----------



## Tic-Tac

It's basically a HD558 with mic and of course in a closed version. Too expensive for what you get imo.


----------



## Evshrug

dagsjt said:


> Connected to PCvia USB and Xbox One via optical. I get the impression that the Mixamp isn't great and might be able to get the Sound Blaster E5 instead. It would either be a case of new headphones or the E5. Unless I went for the cheaper DT990's and I could maybe get the E5 as well.
> 
> I've got some Samson SR850's and prefer the sound of those to the K612's, the bass and tone fit better for me.




Keep in mind you and I have different ears, but the DT880 caused my first experience with tinnitus. The DT880 has less of a treble spike than the DT990.

I'm willing to bet the K612 sound lackluster off of just the Mixamp. I don't know if the full, actual sound of the K612 when properly driven will have the bass and tone you prefer, but I do know the K612 does sound much better with an amp, most future upgrades you might consider over the K612 in the future would also benefit from amping, and it takes a little while to adjust to a new headphone signature. Does anyone in your family have a receiver with their TV? Try plugging the K612 into that and listening to something.


----------



## Change is Good

Fallout 4 is so addictingly captivating, I seem to forget about my real life and responsibilities. Freaking Skyrim all over again, for me...

:/


----------



## Evshrug

Glad it's good! I might take another stab at beating oblivion.


----------



## DagsJT

evshrug said:


> Keep in mind you and I have different ears, but the DT880 caused my first experience with tinnitus. The DT880 has less of a treble spike than the DT990.
> 
> I'm willing to bet the K612 sound lackluster off of just the Mixamp. I don't know if the full, actual sound of the K612 when properly driven will have the bass and tone you prefer, but I do know the K612 does sound much better with an amp, most future upgrades you might consider over the K612 in the future would also benefit from amping, and it takes a little while to adjust to a new headphone signature. Does anyone in your family have a receiver with their TV? Try plugging the K612 into that and listening to something.




Thanks Evshrug. Unfortunately nobody else has a receiver and after trying the SR850's again, I think I want more of a deeper sound. I did have an X1 that I was watching but that's now sold unfortunately. 

Any recommendations on similar to the X1 sound? I've read good things about the HP200 too but I think the sound is similar to the K612? Also spotted a HD600 on eBay finishing in a few hours and still on £150.

I wouldn't think it would be this difficult to find a headphone similar to the X1 and SR850 sound.


----------



## dandiego

generalight said:


> I want to get surround sound on the Wii U with my AKG K702 headphones. I heard you need an AV Receiver that supportas LPCM 5.1 with HDMI in and out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> Nah, the AVRs should be fine, it's the TV and a typical TV'a video processing that causes lag. Adding an AVR to your existing setup won't create more input lag.


 
  
This could be interesting for the Wii U as the transmitter will accept an HDMI input, but of course you have to use the accompanying headset... Tritton Katana HD: http://store.madcatz.com/Tritton-Kat...-Consoles.html

Mad Catz doesn't provide any details on what surround formats it will/won't accept, but they do mention "uncompressed" a few times. They also note that Xbox 360 compatibility for the pass-through is "stereo only" vs. up to 7.1 for the other consoles, including the Wii U. I'm thinking this means it won't do any decoding since the Xbox 360 actually can output surround over HDMI -- but only in compressed/encoded formats like Dolby Digital/DTS that require decoding, not uncompressed LPCM surround like the PS3, PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U can.
  
So basically it appears it will accept up to 7.1 LPCM and convert it to DTS Headphone:X for the headset... for $250.  Thoughts on this?


----------



## DagsJT

More hours spent researching this afternoon and I think I've finally settled on a decision. I'll wait to see if a pair of used Fidelio X2's come up for sale and I expect they'll be my end-game headphones...


----------



## bavinck

dagsjt said:


> More hours spent researching this afternoon and I think I've finally settled on a decision. I'll wait to see if a pair of used Fidelio X2's come up for sale and I expect they'll be my end-game headphones...



Good call, but I doubt they will be your end game


----------



## DagsJT

bavinck said:


> Good call, but I doubt they will be your end game


 
  
 I know, I know


----------



## starscream00

tic-tac said:


> It's basically a HD558 with mic and of course in a closed version. Too expensive for what you get imo.


 
 And what about the game one?


----------



## Helvetica bold

Whoa I'm really interested in the Tritton Katana now. HDMI, DTS X all good things.
It's either this or the G5...


----------



## Fegefeuer

G5 allows the usage of your own headphones. That alone beats every forced bundle ********.


----------



## Yethal

Well the Katana ticks all the right boxes except the fact that it doesn;t allow plugging our own headphones and mics.


----------



## inseconds99

Has anyone attempted to attached a modmic to the Th900's? Does it effect the paint or take it off when you uninstall the modmic? Want to add a mic for when I am doing some single player gaming but also want to be on skype. Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## bavinck

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted to attached a modmic to the Th900's? Does it effect the paint or take it off when you uninstall the modmic? Want to add a mic for when I am doing some single player gaming but also want to be on skype. Any info would be appreciated.




Save a bunch of money and get a lapel mic from Amazon. I got three in one pack for a few bucks, they work great.


----------



## inseconds99

bavinck said:


> Save a bunch of money and get a lapel mic from Amazon. I got three in one pack for a few bucks, they work great.


 
 I'm using the Zalman clip on and its awful, muffled sound and picks up sounds from my very noisy room. Need something with noise cancellation as the room I'm in has tons of background noise.
  
 Also, would like to have a mute switch as its frustrating to have to go into settings and mute the mic instead just reaching for a switch.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Hello all what an awesome thread!! Alas after days of reading I have only scratched the surface, I cant read it all 
  
 Considering the following:
  
 Audiotechnica AD700 or AD700x
 Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm
  
 As an audio newbie who has only ever used Razer Kraken 7.1 headset I would love to get some advice on my audio setup for PC and 90% gaming, e.g Battlefiled 4.
  
 I am considering the Soundblaster Z (although i understand creative are bringing out a new 'X' version of the E5) or the E5.
  
 I dont understand the use of AMPs and DAC's in their various combinations. the SB Z has inbuilt AMP upto 600Ohm but I read about some people using another amp connected to the sound card...maybe a Schiit Magni or similar. Do i even need a SB-Z if I am using a dedicated AMP? Would definately be nice to have the option of 3D surround (7.1 preferebly) if possible. The E5 seems to be both an AMP/DAC?soundcard in one but is weak as an AMP? Pffffffff please help me understand.
  
 Many thanks!!!!!!


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted to attached a modmic to the Th900's? Does it effect the paint or take it off when you uninstall the modmic? Want to add a mic for when I am doing some single player gaming but also want to be on skype. Any info would be appreciated.


 
 The residue from ModMic base can be removed using a wet napkin so unless the paint is not water-friendly You'll be fine.


3rdamigo said:


> Hello all what an awesome thread!! Alas after days of reading I have only scratched the surface, I cant read it all
> 
> Considering the following:
> 
> ...


 
 Gaming audio rig consistes of three different components:

DSP or Digital Sound Processor that creates the virtual surround effect and sends it out as a digital signal to a DAC
DAC or Digital to Analog Converter which converts the digital signal from a DSP into an analog signal and sends it to an AMP
AMP or amplifier (duh) which amplifies the signal and then sends it out to headphones
  
 The SBZ has all of these components built in. However, You can use your own AMP, or your Your own DAC+AMP to improve the sound coming off of the soundcard.


----------



## Tic-Tac

starscream00 said:


> And what about the game one?


 The same. Zero = closed back ; One = open back


----------



## Evshrug

dandiego said:


> [COLOR=222222]This could be interesting for the Wii U as the transmitter will accept an HDMI input, but of course you have to use the accompanying headset... Tritton Katana HD: [/COLOR][COLOR=01518E]http://store.madcatz.com/Tritton-Kat...-Consoles.html[/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]
> [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]Mad Catz doesn't provide any details on what surround formats it will/won't accept, but they do mention "uncompressed" a few times. They also note that Xbox 360 compatibility for the pass-through is "stereo only" vs. up to 7.1 for the other consoles, including the Wii U. I'm thinking this means it won't do any decoding since the Xbox 360 actually can output surround over HDMI -- but only in compressed/encoded formats like Dolby Digital/DTS that require decoding, not uncompressed LPCM surround like the PS3, PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U can.[/COLOR]
> 
> [COLOR=222222]So basically it appears it will accept up to 7.1 LPCM and convert it to DTS Headphone:X for the headset... for $250.  [/COLOR][COLOR=222222]Thoughts on this?[/COLOR]




Hey this does look interesting, if for no other reason than it's the right direction for input and will get a lot of attention from gamers, and will drive competition well. Tritton's amps have been fairly hissy in the past and their headphones not the greatest, but this new one could be better, and it does tick the boxes for what mainstream gamers want.


----------



## Evshrug

3rdamigo said:


> Hello all what an awesome thread!! Alas after days of reading I have only scratched the surface, I cant read it all
> 
> Considering the following:
> 
> ...




I have an explanation of DSP, DAC, and Amp here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/345#post_12069824

I had a Sound Blaster Z, it was pretty good but the E5 would be a better amp, at least as good DAC (slightly different flavor). I also put up an E5 review in that same thread as the link, that should give you a pretty informed view why I'd recommend the E5 for you over getting a SB-Z. For PC, the E5 supports full uncompressed surround, so you'd get a heck of a lot of good use out of that 

As for headphones, that's what this thread by Mad Lust Envy is for. I think the AD700 was pretty great, but a bit light on bass and musical enjoyment (perhaps too focused?). It's a decent start, but there are many other great choices depending on your tastes and budget.


----------



## l00l

So, for gaming (ps4), movies and televison I plug my Beyerdynamics DT 990pro 250 ohms straight into to headphone jack of my Yamaha AVR with silent cinema. 
The question I keep asking myself: Would my headphones/sound quality noticeably benefit from an additional external amp or is the Yamaha AVR enough to drive the dt 990pro properly. Right now I have to turn the volume up to like 30 - 40 % to get a decent volume out of it. I wonder if this is perfectly normal or if I should use an amp to further enhance sound quality. Any toughts on this? thx


----------



## bavinck

l00l said:


> So, for gaming (ps4), movies and televison I plug my Beyerdynamics DT 990pro 250 ohms straight into to headphone jack of my Yamaha AVR with silent cinema.
> The question I keep asking myself: Would my headphones/sound quality noticeably benefit from an additional external amp or is the Yamaha AVR enough to drive the dt 990pro properly. Right now I have to turn the volume up to like 30 - 40 % to get a decent volume out of it. I wonder if this is perfectly normal or if I should use an amp to further enhance sound quality. Any toughts on this? thx




I think Yamaha ho impedance is north of 400 ohms. Good rule of thumb is ho impedance no less than 8 times the headphone impedance. I have a Yamaha and I prefer the mixamp Dolby headphone with a schiit amp to my k7xxs for both movies and gaming.


----------



## inseconds99

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted to attached a modmic to the Th900's? Does it effect the paint or take it off when you uninstall the modmic? Want to add a mic for when I am doing some single player gaming but also want to be on skype. Any info would be appreciated.


 
  
  


yethal said:


> The residue from ModMic base can be removed using a wet napkin so unless the paint is not water-friendly You'll be fine.


 
  
 I am concerned as we all know the TH900's paint is very soft and seems easy to damage. I don't want to create a giant hole in the very beautiful paint.


----------



## rudyae86

starscream00 said:


> just a question, but why is no one using or recommending the sennheiser  game zero? Is it bad? i am considering buying those,


 

  
 these should be the same as the PC 350 Special Edition/G4ME Zero. And although I kind of agree with what he said, I still feel like the PC350 SE/G4ME Zero does fairly well with gaming, especially when its for competitive gaming. It lacks bass of course but its there, its noticeable but the whole sound signature is neutral. Not everyone likes this type of sound signature but if you are playing competitively in a loud crowd (LAN parties, etc) or you dont want to wake up your roomate, the Sennheiser headsets will get the job done.
  
 as for the G4ME One, its pretty much the HD558 with a mic, though some say its the HD598 with a Mic but both HD558 and HD598 sound similar that at this point, its doesnt matter, the headset G4ME One get the job done very well too. G4ME One is the PC360 from Sennheiser.


----------



## starscream00

rudyae86 said:


> these should be the same as the PC 350 Special Edition/G4ME Zero. And although I kind of agree with what he said, I still feel like the PC350 SE/G4ME Zero does fairly well with gaming, especially when its for competitive gaming. It lacks bass of course but its there, its noticeable but the whole sound signature is neutral. Not everyone likes this type of sound signature but if you are playing competitively in a loud crowd (LAN parties, etc) or you dont want to wake up your roomate, the Sennheiser headsets will get the job done.
> 
> as for the G4ME One, its pretty much the HD558 with a mic, though some say its the HD598 with a Mic but both HD558 and HD598 sound similar that at this point, its doesnt matter, the headset G4ME One get the job done very well too. G4ME One is the PC360 from Sennheiser.


 
 I was generally considering the Sennheiser Game one and the hd 598. But what draws me closer to the Game one is the features of the mic, like raising the boom to mute, which i think is really convenient as well as the volume dial at the side of the cup.
 Even though the modmic has a mute switch, it would still require a extra wire running down the headset (i hate wires, especially when its multiple wires)
 So seeing that the game one's are based on the drivers of the *558,598* i think it would be best if i kill 2 birds with one stone. 
 It would have been great if the mic was detachable, but sennheiser would have lost a lot of sale this way towards the hd 558 lol.


----------



## PurpleAngel

dagsjt said:


> Connected to PCvia USB and Xbox One via optical. I get the impression that the Mix-amp isn't great and might be able to get the Sound Blaster E5 instead. It would either be a case of new headphones or the E5. Unless I went for the cheaper DT990's and I could maybe get the E5 as well.
> I've got some Samson SR850's and prefer the sound of those to the K612's, the bass and tone fit better for me.


 
  
 The Astro Mix-amp is about equal to a $30 PC sound card, it's great for gaming consoles, but not the best choice for PC use.
 Should not the mix-amp's USB port be plugged into the gaming consoles USB port, not the PC's ?


----------



## burritoboy9984

I think the best thing about the new Tritton headset is that another company has adopted DTS Headphone X. Can't wait until a company makes a mixamp like device that supports DTS Headphone X.


----------



## PurpleAngel

starscream00 said:


> And what about the game one?


 
  
 Seems to be about the same as the Game Zero, but with a new paint job and a new name?
 Sometimes you can just change the look and name of a product and people will want to buy it because it seems new.
 Maybe there are minor changes in the internal design?
 but basically Sennheiser puts the same 50-Ohm drivers in a lot of their headphones and headsets


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Game Zero vs Game One: One is open with velour pads, one is closed with pleather pads. IF it has the same drivers, it doesn't change the fact that they probably sound quite different from one another. Perhaps a similar tonal balance, but that's where similarities would end.


----------



## Evshrug

l00l said:


> So, for gaming (ps4), movies and televison I plug my Beyerdynamics DT 990pro 250 ohms straight into to headphone jack of my Yamaha AVR with silent cinema.
> The question I keep asking myself: Would my headphones/sound quality noticeably benefit from an additional external amp or is the Yamaha AVR enough to drive the dt 990pro properly. Right now I have to turn the volume up to like 30 - 40 % to get a decent volume out of it. I wonder if this is perfectly normal or if I should use an amp to further enhance sound quality. Any toughts on this? thx




Which Yamaha receiver? I got a fairly entry-level $200 one, but it sounds fairly capable next to dedicated amps, and a fair sight crisper than my older DSS or Recon3D USB. I had a Beyerdynamic DT880 and an AKG K712, Q701, all three of those have a linear impedance response so the receiver's output impedance hardly makes a difference. Having some extra headroom on e volume dial is normal and desirable, though obviously an issue if you can barely turn the volume up at all and the sound is already too loud. You can get better headphone amps but be prepared to spend hundreds to find one noticeably better on a technical level, however I feel there are better surround DSPs than Silent Cinema.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Which Yamaha receiver? I got a fairly entry-level $200 one, but it sounds fairly capable next to dedicated amps, and a fair sight crisper than my older DSS or Recon3D USB. I had a Beyerdynamic DT880 and an AKG K712, Q701, all three of those have a linear impedance response so the receiver's output impedance hardly makes a difference. Having some extra headroom on e volume dial is normal and desirable, though obviously an issue if you can barely turn the volume up at all and the sound is already too loud. You can get better headphone amps but be prepared to spend hundreds to find one noticeably better on a technical level, however I feel there are better surround DSPs than Silent Cinema.




The headphone amps in anything less than a $1,000 avr definitely don't hang with the X7, let alone anything better. I sold my (very nice) Pioneer VSX 1121K because it did everything well, except send audio out to headphones. 

It's really a cost-cutting measure, I've read. My 2012 Pioneer blew away my 2006 Yamaha receiver in everything but headphone performance. Anecdotal, I know, but it supports the argument that headphone quality thru avrs has significantly dropped off in the last 10-20 years.


----------



## Evshrug

*shrug*
Mine's from... Uh... 2007? Or so? Yamaha V371. Not all headphone jacks are equal, and certainly I'd be wary about buying a new AVR for the purpose of amping headphones, but my theory is try it if you've already got it and see if you like it. Can there be improvements? Sure! But it might still outperform a Mixamp or smartphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

l00l said:


> So, for gaming (ps4), movies and televison I plug my Beyerdynamics DT 990pro 250 ohms straight into to headphone jack of my Yamaha AVR with silent cinema.
> The question I keep asking myself: Would my headphones/sound quality noticeably benefit from an additional external amp or is the Yamaha AVR enough to drive the dt 990pro properly. Right now I have to turn the volume up to like 30 - 40 % to get a decent volume out of it. I wonder if this is perfectly normal or if I should use an amp to further enhance sound quality. Any thoughts on this? thx


 
  
 I plug all my 250-Ohm & 600-Ohm Beyers (DT770, DT880, DT990, T70) into my Yamaha RX-V671 and I think it does a fairly decent job.
  
 Sometimes it's not that easy to hook up a add-on external headphone amplifier to the back of a receiver (not sure why).
 and you lose the use of Yamaha's silent cinema headphone surround sound feature.
  
 I'm thinking your better off selling off the DT990 and put all you audio budget into higher end Beyers.
 Maybe pick up a used Beyer T70?


----------



## rudyae86

starscream00 said:


> I was generally considering the Sennheiser Game one and the hd 598. But what draws me closer to the Game one is the features of the mic, like raising the boom to mute, which i think is really convenient as well as the volume dial at the side of the cup.
> Even though the modmic has a mute switch, it would still require a extra wire running down the headset (i hate wires, especially when its multiple wires)
> So seeing that the game one's are based on the drivers of the *558,598* i think it would be best if i kill 2 birds with one stone.
> It would have been great if the mic was detachable, but sennheiser would have lost a lot of sale this way towards the hd 558 lol.


 

 If you want to avoid the wire clutter, than the G4ME ONE would be the best choice. Both the G4ME ONE and ZERO have the same mic, with the same ability to mute when raising it up. But honestly the G4ME ONE is more comfy than the G4ME ZERO and the G4ME ONE is open back and has a nice soundstage to it and airy sound. I actually like them though I sent them back because my were badly used (bought them from AWD). Either headset would suit your needs but they do lean more towards the competitve type of sound compared to immersion. Their bass is noticeable but nothing like X1/X2 bass.
  
  
 EDIT:
  
 So I was just typing Creative Labs G5 and found this....nothing much honestly and wished he would show the rear of the G5 but oh well....
  
 at least it would get your panties wet lol


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Great! Thank you Evshrug soooooooooooooo much! I will read this today!
  
 I think I am slowly narrowing this down. I think 3 viable options so far:
  
 Sound Blaster Z --- Audiotechnica AD700 or Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm
  
 or
  
 Sound Blaster Z --- Schiit Magni (or Vali?) or Focusrite Scarlett Solo --- Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm
  
 or
  
 Sound Blaster G5 --- Audiotechnica AD700 or Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250Ohm
  
 I think the last option appeals to me more becuase of the uncompressed surround! Although I don't really know how compressed and uncompressed sound compared to one another.
  
 Would very much like to hear opnions on my choices here. I would love to read all the info on the site but it is not realistic  I have already taught myself an MSc in audio in the last week with the amount of research I have done 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 PS: I am from the UK so Schiit here is relatively expensive, £90 - $137 US
  
 the focusrite is £60


----------



## 3rdAmigo

rudyae86 said:


> If you want to avoid the wire clutter, than the G4ME ONE would be the best choice. Both the G4ME ONE and ZERO have the same mic, with the same ability to mute when raising it up. But honestly the G4ME ONE is more comfy than the G4ME ZERO and the G4ME ONE is open back and has a nice soundstage to it and airy sound. I actually like them though I sent them back because my were badly used (bought them from AWD). Either headset would suit your needs but they do lean more towards the competitve type of sound compared to immersion. Their bass is noticeable but nothing like X1/X2 bass.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


 
  
 Thank you for the video Rudyae86!!!! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Rumours of a December release?
  
 Also thank you for the Sennheiser info (previous page?) Hmm so the Game one is essentially a PC 350/360?
  
 I have been considering the PC 363HD headset for some time but read conflicing info about it. How does the PC 363HD compare to other Sennheisers like the game one etc other than, of course it comes with its own Dolby surround USB card (Iwonder also how good the card is).
  
 EDIT
  

 SB-X G5
  
  

  
 You guys probably already know about RHA DAC/AMP above?  http://www.rha-audio.com/us/dacamp
  
 No mention of surround though.


----------



## AxelCloris

3rdamigo said:


> You guys probably already know about RHA DAC/AMP above?  http://www.rha-audio.com/us/dacamp
> 
> No mention of surround though.


 
  
 No mention of surround because it doesn't have it. It's targeting the portable audio market, not the gaming crowd. If you get one to make it work with your system then that's cool, but it wouldn't be the reason why I'd buy one.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Aha thanks Axel!
  
 After much talking on the telephone with several retailers (both audio and gaming) no one can see the sense in running an amp from an internal soundcard to an AMP such as the Schiit magni and then headphones. The consensus seams to be one or the other other wise there could be serious latency issues, not to mention EMI issues from the internal sound card. So confuzzled right now 
  
 Mad Lust Envy; may I ask how you went about using Dolby surround on the AKG K702 (K701) pretty please?


----------



## Yethal

3rdamigo said:


> Aha thanks Axel!
> 
> After much talking on the telephone with several retailers (both audio and gaming) no one can see the sense in running an amp from an internal soundcard to an AMP such as the Schiit magni and then headphones. The consensus seams to be one or the other other wise there could be serious latency issues, not to mention EMI issues from the internal sound card. So confuzzled right now
> 
> Mad Lust Envy; may I ask how you went about using Dolby surround on the AKG K702 (K701) pretty please? :basshead:



Latency added by an amp is usually measured in nanoseconds.


----------



## rudyae86

3rdamigo said:


> Thank you for the video Rudyae86!!!! :tongue_smile: Rumours of a December release?
> 
> Also thank you for the Sennheiser info (previous page?) Hmm so the Game one is essentially a PC 350/360?
> 
> ...




No, G4ME ONE is the same as the PC360 not the PC350 SE.

As for the PC363, I read somewhere that it's similar to the PC360 difference is that it's impedance is at 32ohm vs 50ohm from the PC360 and you get the sub dongle for surround sound But doesn't do Dolby headphone and uses a different Dolby technology, which I don't remember what it is.

Just stick with the G4ME One


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Thanks for the info Rudyae!
  
 I have spent all day reading this thread and re-reading the first page of reviews. My thoughts have changed a bit now. I somehow missed the AKG K612 Pro's and the K702. The 702's sound they could be the ones for me.
  
 If I went with the AKG 612 I may pair it with the SB-X G5 or perhaps the Scarlett Solo, not sure but I guess a Sound Blaster Z may not cut-it as an AMP for these?
  
 The other option of course is the G4me-one, although i dont need a mic, nice to have but I never really use them. Despite this the SB-Z has beam forming ic anyway.
  
 I suspect I may go for the K702 its the same price here as the g4ame-one!
  
 Will I benefit from anything more than the SB-Z AMP?


rudyae86 said:


> No, G4ME ONE is the same as the PC360 not the PC350 SE.
> 
> As for the PC363, I read somewhere that it's similar to the PC360 difference is that it's impedance is at 32ohm vs 50ohm from the PC360 and you get the sub dongle for surround sound But doesn't do Dolby headphone and uses a different Dolby technology, which I don't remember what it is.
> 
> Just stick with the G4ME One


 
  
 Rudyae...please clarify for an audio simpleton    the dongle does surround sound but doesnt do "Dolby headphone". The dongle does dolby 7.1 surround. Not sure what you mean, are they 2 different things?
  
 The one attractive thing about the PC363 USB sound card is that its external and therefore eliminates risk of EMI.
  
 If it is not too much to ask what cables/wires would I need to setup the Schiit Magni from the SB-Z?


----------



## martin vegas

3rdamigo said:


> Thanks for the info Rudyae!
> 
> I have spent all day reading this thread and re-reading the first page of reviews. My thoughts have changed a bit now. I somehow missed the AKG K612 Pro's and the K702. The 702's sound they could be the ones for me.
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 It has the Dolby headphone logo on the box!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got my Dolby Headphone with the K701/Q701 the same way I got it for the vast majority of the headphones reviewed: The Astro Mixamp.

Even when I had the Marantz SR5002 receiver which was the only other alternative Dolby Headphone device I used, that was only for a few months, and I don't remember reviewing a pair of headphones with that the Marantz as my surround device.

Up until early last year (I think), it was all Astro Mixamps. Nowadays, I don't use Dolby Headphone, but SBX from the Creative X7, which I'm sure more people would prefer over Dolby Headphone due to less reverb and echo. Personally, I still feel the surround on Dolby Headphone is more realistic and convincing, but SBX undoubtedly sounds higher in fidelity. So all in all SBX has more pros than cons that I feel may sway the typical audiophile compared to Dolby Headphone which can be polarizing.


----------



## l00l

evshrug said:


> Which Yamaha receiver? I got a fairly entry-level $200 one, but it sounds fairly capable next to dedicated amps, and a fair sight crisper than my older DSS or Recon3D USB. I had a Beyerdynamic DT880 and an AKG K712, Q701, all three of those have a linear impedance response so the receiver's output impedance hardly makes a difference. Having some extra headroom on e volume dial is normal and desirable, though obviously an issue if you can barely turn the volume up at all and the sound is already too loud. You can get better headphone amps but be prepared to spend hundreds to find one noticeably better on a technical level, however I feel there are better surround DSPs than Silent Cinema.


 
  
 Yamaha SR-301, this one:
 http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/digital-sound-projector/yht-s401_w/
  
 Sometimes I also connect a (cheap) Fiio E6 portable amp between my headphones and the Yamaha AVR and there is a noticeable difference in volume. That´s why I figured that maybe the AVR would benefit from an external amp. However, the Fiio E6 does of course not have an optical in (only stereo in, stereo out), so all it does is make the sound louder. And it also has some equalizer options (more bass, less bass etc.).
  
 Really, to be honest, I don´t want to spend hundreds and I also don´t want to go through a lot of hassle getin everything connected. I have a neat setup right now that I like. I simply figured that, with my current setup in mind, if there is an easy and affordable ($ 150 max.) way to get more out of my headphones, then I would go for it. If not, than I simply will roll with what I have and be good with it.


----------



## DagsJT

mad lust envy said:


> I got my Dolby Headphone with the K701/Q701 the same way I got it for the vast majority of the headphones reviewed: The Astro Mixamp.
> 
> Even when I had the Marantz SR5002 receiver which was the only other alternative Dolby Headphone device I used, that was only for a few months, and I don't remember reviewing a pair of headphones with that the Marantz as my surround device.
> 
> Up until early last year (I think), it was all Astro Mixamps. Nowadays, I don't use Dolby Headphone, but SBX from the Creative X7, which I'm sure more people would prefer over Dolby Headphone due to less reverb and echo. Personally, I still feel the surround on Dolby Headphone is more realistic and convincing, but SBX undoubtedly sounds higher in fidelity. So all in all SBX has more pros than cons that I feel may sway the typical audiophile compared to Dolby Headphone which can be polarizing.




A shame the X7 is ridiculously expensive though, at least here in the UK.


----------



## Yethal

dagsjt said:


> A shame the X7 is ridiculously expensive though, at least here in the UK.


 
 That's a matter of perspective. If all You need is a gaming soundcard then yes. if all You need is a headphone dac/amp then also yes. But if You need a virtual surround device, a DAC, a headphone and speaker amp with USB, optical, Bluetooth and line inputs/outputs then I believe the price is fair for such a versatile product.


----------



## bavinck

Sorry, I know this is a repeat question. How would you connect the x7 to a ps4 for lossless surround sound?


----------



## PurpleAngel

3rdamigo said:


> Thanks for the info Rudyae!
> I have spent all day reading this thread and re-reading the first page of reviews. My thoughts have changed a bit now. I somehow missed the AKG K612 Pro's and the K702. The 702's sound they could be the ones for me.
> If I went with the AKG 612 I may pair it with the SB-X G5 or perhaps the Scarlett Solo, not sure but I guess a Sound Blaster Z may not cut-it as an AMP for these?
> The other option of course is the G4me-one, although i don't need a mic, nice to have but I never really use them. Despite this the SB-Z has beam forming ic anyway.
> ...


 
  
 The SB-Z can drive the 120-Ohm K612 Pro, maybe not the best amplifier for driving the K612 Pro, but with the price you pay for the SB-Z, makes it a good value.
  
 Dolby Headphone will take in a 6 or 8 channel source and convert it into a something that can be sent to a stereo headphone.
 Someone figured out how our 2 ears (stereo input) process surround sound and designed (programmed?) it into Dolby Headphone.
  
 There is the older Dolby Pro Logic, which does Dolby Surround 7.1, which I believe is more of a faked surround sound.
 I believe Dolby 7.1 Surround can take in 2 channels of audio and do an Expanded Stereo, which is like a fake 7.1 surround sound.
 Something a long the lines of when a receiver takes in 2-channel music audio and expanded it out to all 6-channels of a 5.1 speaker setup, or the 8 channels of a 7.1 speaker setup.
 Some how Dolby adapted it for headphones.
  
 There have been 5 or 6 versions of the Dolby Pro Logic chip, the latest version might offer more headphone surround sound processing then I might know about
 Dolby might ask for different amounts of royalties depending on which chip and what features are used.
  
 I'm guessing the Dolby Pro Logic audio processing chip used in the USB sound cards is one of the older and cheaper versions, this way the word "Dolby" can be printed on the front of a retail box, that the headset comes in.
  
 Technically to try to get the best audio quality out of a SB-Z/Magni setup, you would want to plug the Magni into the SB-Z's Front Speaker jack. it should feed a better analog audio signal (line-output signal), to the Magni, then plugging the Magni into the SB-Z's headphone jack.
 When you plug the Magni into the headphone jack, your double amping.
 But the SB-Z can not send it's SBX Headphone surround sound thru the Front Speaker jack.


----------



## PurpleAngel

bavinck said:


> Sorry, I know this is a repeat question. How would you connect the X7 to a PS4 for Lossless surround sound?


 
  
  
 Compression is needed to send more then 2-channels of digital audio, thru optical, but the compressed audio (up to 6-channels) it's maxed out at 24-bit/48K.
 Not sure if that answers you question.


----------



## bavinck

purpleangel said:


> Compression is needed to send more then 2-channels of digital audio, thru optical, but the compressed audio (up to 6-channels) it's maxed out at 24-bit/48K.
> Not sure if that answers you question.


 
 Thanks,


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Thank you Mad Lust very good to know, and may I thank you for all your hard work, genuinly, this thread has probably saved me several purchase regrets!!! probably many times over, free hugs! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Good to know about the mixamp too thank you for replying.
  
 PurpleAngel: Yes that more or less does answer my question. I ordered the AKG K702, SB-E5 external soundcard/Amp/DAC and the  FiiO E10 today, should be with me tomorow. I will probably return the E5 as i understand the new version BlasterX G5 comes out end of this month or probably December. So I will try the FiiO to see what all the fuss is about gaming in pure stereo using the characteristics of the phones to do the job of positioning for me. Although I am not sure how well they will perform as I was not aware until after I ordered the kit, that Mad Lust used an Astro Mixamp for his reviews on the first page.
  
 I have spent time today also listening to surround comparisons from different manufacturers, I have to say I think SBX environmental audio is the best. Granted, I was listening on my crappy Razer Krakens but SBX was a clear winner. However I heard CMSS-3D also and I thought that sounded better than the SBX!! What the hell is wrong with Creative? I played with their Sound Blaster Live EA 16 in 1992 when it first came out and it was VERY good at positional audio, in a different class!
  
 Oh well I just hope that the G5 surpasses my expectations because this solves all of my potential issues. Whatever the case I cant get the Magni out of my head because it is sooooo beautiful!


----------



## xAk MoRRoWiNdx

I want to get the HD598s to use with my Xbox One. What Amp or DAC (or both?) Should I get? I want to keep the cost as much down as I can


----------



## PurpleAngel

3rdamigo said:


> Thank you Mad Lust very good to know, and may I thank you for all your hard work, genuinely, this thread has probably saved me several purchase regrets!!! probably many times over, free hugs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 In the Creative Labs newer SBX Headphone surround sound verses the older CMSS-3D Headphone surround sound.
  
 My best guess and two cents
 Years ago, PC CPUs came with one core and it was slow (by today's standards), so a sound card needed to have a powerful audio processor (Creative EMU20K) to get good headphone surround sound (CMSS-3D?) for gaming
 Now that all the CPUs now a days have 4 or 6 or 8 core and run way faster, the headphone surround sound processing can be switched more over to the CPU (SBX?)
 Creative seems to have removed some of the features of the EMU20K audio processor (but kept the Quartet DSP) that powered CMSS-3D and integrated other features normally done by other chips on the sound card PCB, like DAC, ADC, I/O, on to the newer SoundCore3D audio processor.
 Integrating features that other chips use to do brings down the cost of making a sound card.


----------



## PurpleAngel

xak morrowindx said:


> I want to get the HD598s to use with my Xbox One. What Amp or DAC (or both?) Should I get? I want to keep the cost as much down as I can


 
  
 For a gaming console, get the Astro Mix-amp.
 Or to save some cash, buy a used Turtle Beach DSS (eBay).


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> In the Creative Labs newer SBX Headphone surround sound verses the older CMSS-3D Headphone surround sound.
> 
> My best guess and two cents
> Years ago, PC CPUs came with one core and it was slow (by today's standards), so a sound card needed to have a powerful audio processor (Creative EMU20K) to get good headphone surround sound (CMSS-3D?) for gaming
> ...




That's not exactly what happened. Before Vista, audio subsystem in Windows was created in a similar way to graphics subsystem, meaning the soundcard handled all sound related calculations and not the cpu. Then Vista came and from that point on the sound calculations are handled by the cpu abd only then sent to soundcard for final tweaks such as virtual surround.


----------



## PurpleAngel

yethal said:


> That's not exactly what happened. Before Vista, audio subsystem in Windows was created in a similar way to graphics subsystem, meaning the sound card handled all sound related calculations and not the cpu. Then Vista came and from that point on the sound calculations are handled by the CPU abd only then sent to sound card for final tweaks such as virtual surround.


 
  
 Did not Alchemy allow the Creative cards to again deal more directly with audio?


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Yes that makes complete sense purple angel! Thank you very much for that info!
  
 What a crying shame though! They would make more money if they brought that tech back into the card to offload the cpu. Not going to happen though I suspect.
  
 Yethal I have a Turtle Beach DSS 7.1 original that I am going to pput on ebay when I get around to it. It is in very good condition and works very well for positional sound. I no longer have a console so its pretty useless to me. I did however own the X41 phones for a while and can tell you the DSS 7.1 does a great job.


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> Did not Alchemy allow the Creative cards to again deal more directly with audio?




Yup but only for games that were written for openal in the first place.


----------



## mysteryfruit

Hello
  
 I need some help in regards to what i should do. I only care for audio in competitive games specifically CSGO. For the last 3-4 years I've been using pc360 and xonar essence stx, now either my ears are ****ed up or i need some new gear. Because i feel like i miss out on sounds in-game that e.g. my friends with pc350 and only on-board sound card can pin point.
  
 So first of all, what settings should i be using in the STX audio center to make this situation optimal?
 Currently i have:
 Audio channels: 2
 Sample Rate PCM: 44.1Khz
 Analog out: Headphone
  
 And not touched anything else.
  
 Secondly if i should spend money and get some new gear, what would be the best possible setup for competitive games where directional sounds and "where people are stuff" is the only thing that matters to me.
  
 I've been trying to find suggestions to this on here, but there's so many and I'm going nuts trying to figure out whats the best
  
 So far I've gathered that these have been recommended a lot for this use case:
_AD700x_
_K612 pro_
_Fidelio x2_
_HD558_
_HD598_
  
 As far as AMPs go I've seen the_ Fiio E10K, E11K _and_ E09K_ recommended.
 But i have no clue which headphones needs one.
  
 Have i missed any?
 Which one is best for my use case in CSGO, and if i need what AMP should i get?


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> Yup but only for games that were written for openal in the first place.


 
  
 No, Alchemy uses a wrapper for DirectSound3D -> OpenAL Commands. Via OpenAL hardware access is enabled again.


----------



## conquerator2

HEK gaming -> :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 Life is Stramge never sounded better I bet


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> No, Alchemy uses a wrapper for DirectSound3D -> OpenAL Commands. Via OpenAL hardware access is enabled again.



Interesting, I might test that later.


----------



## PurpleAngel

3rdamigo said:


> Yes that makes complete sense purple angel! Thank you very much for that info!
> 
> What a crying shame though! They would make more money if they brought that tech back into the card to offload the cpu. Not going to happen though I suspect.
> 
> Yethal I have a Turtle Beach DSS 7.1 original that I am going to pput on ebay when I get around to it. It is in very good condition and works very well for positional sound. I no longer have a console so its pretty useless to me. I did however own the X41 phones for a while and can tell you the DSS 7.1 does a great job.


 
  
 With the history of Creative sound cards, I'm really making guesses about what Creative did and why they did it.
 I would assume Realtek, C-Media, VIA, etc, all try to off load work to the main CPU.
 To me it just makes good business sense (for any company) to off load as much audio processing as possible, on to the main CPU, it's like free horse power.


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> With the history of Creative sound cards, I'm really making guesses about what Creative did and why they did it.
> I would assume Realtek, C-Media, VIA, etc, all try to off load work to the main CPU.
> To me it just makes good business sense (for any company) to off load as much audio processing as possible, on to the main CPU, it's like free horse power.


 
 They didn't do it. Microsoft did. Unified Sound Architecture forces CPU to perform sound related computations even when a dedicated soundcard is detected.


----------



## Evshrug

mysteryfruit said:


> I need some help in regards to what i should do. I only care for audio in competitive games specifically CSGO. For the last 3-4 years I've been using pc360 and xonar essence stx, now either my ears are ****ed up or i need some new gear.
> 
> Currently i have:
> Audio channels: 2
> ...



First of all, the PC360 is a pretty good headphone. If you've had it for years, some new pads might restore some original performance, but CS:GO has harsh sounds and with enough volume and time it's entirely possible that you've lost some hearing. I'd recommend new pads... AD700x might be a bit more clear with a bit more separation, but it's not going to be a huge change.

One significant change would be utilizing the surround functions of the very good Asus STX. Check out NamelessPFG's thread on PC gaming surround to find out more about turning on surround processing, which might better help you distinguish between front/back sounds rather than sound just being a general "alert." The STX has a built-in amp about equal to the FiiO E09k (maybe tuned a bit differently, but they use the same main headphone amp chip actually).




yethal said:


> They didn't do it. Microsoft did. Unified Sound Architecture forces CPU to perform sound related computations even when a dedicated soundcard is detected.



That's why there is a PC Surround gaming thread, and this thread is mostly about the headphones. It's better for organization, because there is A LOT to get jumbled up.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> That's why there is a PC Surround gaming thread, and this thread is mostly about the headphones. It's better for organization, because there is A LOT to get jumbled up.


 
 I'm not going there, there are crazy people in this thread.


----------



## Evshrug

LOL can't disagree! Haven't been a PC user for awhile, so I haven't been over there for a few months.


----------



## Yethal

I'll let King Arthur sum up my feelings on that thread.


----------



## mysteryfruit

evshrug said:


> AD700x might be a bit more clear with a bit more separation, but it's not going to be a huge change.
> 
> One significant change would be utilizing the surround functions of the very good Asus STX. Check out NamelessPFG's thread on PC gaming surround to find out more about turning on surround processing, which might better help you distinguish between front/back sounds rather than sound just being a general "alert." The STX has a built-in amp about equal to the FiiO E09k (maybe tuned a bit differently, but they use the same main headphone amp chip actually).


 
  
 Thanks, good to know.
 I will do some testing with the surround options and see if it helps.
  
 And btw I found this earlier in this thread:
  
 Quote:


mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like one of your settings is dead wrong. Volume at 100 should blow the drivers out of the game zero. make sure the volume control on the actual headset is turned up. There IS a volume wheel on the Game Zero's ear cup IIRC. That has to be maxed out, and then adjust the volume settings on your PC. I'm certian this is the problem. The problem tends to be something simple.
> 
> I do fear how your software settings are though. It's not exactly plug and play to get the proper experience.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I've been using maxed out volume setting in windows \ STX audio center and only a bit below middle of the volume knob on the headphones. Could this actually have damaged the headphones?
 Instead i should turn windows down and headphones to max all the time?
  
 And finally i saw in the guide thread for STX that the HP advance setting was important, so if anyone here knows what it should be set to with my headphones pc360 that would be great.
 Ive been using the default: Normal Gain or for <64ohms headsets, the other choices would be "High Gain or for 64~300ohms" and "High Gain or for 300~600ohms".


----------



## bavinck

Ps4 is selling record numbers, xbone not too far behind. That's a big install base. Why can creative not design a SBX lossless (HDMI( surround device for them that sounds better than the mixamp? Seems like a no brainer to me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mysteryfruit said:


> I need some help in regards to what i should do. I only care for audio in competitive games specifically CSGO. For the last 3-4 years I've been using pc360 and Xonar Essence STX, now either my ears are ****ed up or i need some new gear. Because i feel like i miss out on sounds in-game that e.g. my friends with pc350 and only on-board sound card can pin point.
> So first of all, what settings should i be using in the STX audio center to make this situation optimal?
> Currently i have:
> Audio channels: 2
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before installing the Essence STX and the Asus software?
 Set the STX's Audio Channel to 6 speaker (or is it 6 channel?)
  
 Do you set CSGO to 6-channel output
 I've never played CSGO, so I'm just guessing at the settings.
  
 Try the Unified Xonar Drivers
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 The Sennheiser HD558, HD598, PC360, PC363, GAME ONE, etc, all seem to use the same 50-Ohm driver.
  
 I do not think adding an external headphone amplifier to the STX will solve the issue, as the STX has way more then enough to drive the 50-Ohm PC360 headset


----------



## PurpleAngel

mysteryfruit said:


> I've been using maxed out volume setting in windows \ STX audio center and only a bit below middle of the volume knob on the headphones. Could this actually have damaged the headphones?
> Instead i should turn windows down and headphones to max all the time?
> And finally i saw in the guide thread for STX that the HP advance setting was important, so if anyone here knows what it should be set to with my headphones PC360 that would be great.
> Ive been using the default: Normal Gain or for <64ohms headsets, the other choices would be "High Gain or for 64~300ohms" and "High Gain or for 300~600ohms".


 
  
 Using the <64-Ohm setting is what you would normally want use with 50-Ohm headphones, but it should be fine to use the 64~300 setting with the PC360.


----------



## raband

purpleangel said:


> With the history of Creative sound cards, I'm really making guesses about what Creative did and why they did it.
> I would assume Realtek, C-Media, VIA, etc, all try to off load work to the main CPU.
> To me it just makes good business sense (for any company) to off load as much audio processing as possible, on to the main CPU, it's like free horse power.


 
  
 Wasn't it a change in the OS that forced their hand rather than any decision at their end?
  
 When Vista was released it changed the whole audio subsystem?? to do all the heavy lifting inside windows before handing over the stream to the soundcards?
  
 I can recall it being a huge PITA trying to get my SB card I had at the time to work with Vista - there was even a 3rd party unofficial driver that was pretty much required (but shot down/sued by creative for fixing their broken product)
  
 I wasn't impressed at the time - I'd bought an expensive card with all the goodies 6 months earlier - then was left with an almost useless product on "upgrading" to Vista. Even when they finally got drivers released it was still crippled and buggy.
  
 Vista caused the change - Creative totally shafted everyone by not reacting to it, not releasing drivers for their products despite (I'd imagine) having the opportunity to develop well before release and by shooting down the drivers the 3rd party "altered" that actually bought functionality back to the cards.
  
 Almost repeated again with Windows 10 - I don't see any excuse at all for them to not have drivers ready at least on release date, especially with how prevalent the Developer Preview was - I think it was good month before windows 10 drivers were released for much of their line


----------



## Sam21

when are those VR headsets coming out ? *******ed Audiophiles made me totally forget about vision.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Right!!!!!!!!
  
 I have been doing some serious hardcore :/   testing
  
 This morning I took delivarance of the AKG 702; Creative Sound Blaster E5 and FiiO E10 olympus AMP/DAC
  
 I am flabbergasted!!
  
 This headphone seems to perform better in games in its purest form. This confused me at first my ears refused to believe it!
  
 So, to make sure  I am not going insane   I would like advice please.  I have disabled onboard sound via BIOS. I have also disabld the realtek drivers for my motherboard. Also I have disabled the AMD HDMI drivers.
  
 8 hours of battlefiled in all manner of maps from Golmud to Pearl Market. The 702 appears to perform connsiderably better without any 3d sound enaabled, i.e just using an amp.
  
 I tried for hours with the SB E5 and the SBX 'surround'
  
 imagine my surprise, having tried SBX from 33% to 100% that it siimply did not compare to the AKG 702 in its natural form. No suround just an AMP/DAC  (Focusrite Scarlett Solo AMP or FiiO E10)
  
 I dont know whether to be disapointed in the Sound Blaster E5 or to be in awe of the AKG 702 and its innate ability to perform 3D sound without any 'fancy' software.
  
 Tomorrow I recieve the AKG K612 and the Sennheiser Game -one headphones. If anyone is interested I can post my thoughts? perhaps I should be posting this stuff in the 'surround' thread?


----------



## alv4426

This has probably been mentioned in this thread somewhere but do you guys know some way to hook up an Xbox One to my PC with a Creative ZxR sound card WITH the ability to chat through the ZxR?  I don't have a Xbox headset adapter or a headset and I don't really want to get one if I don't need it. Ive been using the xbox through toslink but I haven't need to chat until now.  I dont think its possible but any help would be appreciated, thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

alv4426 said:


> This has probably been mentioned in this thread somewhere but do you guys know some way to hook up an Xbox One to my PC with a Creative ZxR sound card WITH the ability to chat through the ZxR?  I don't have a Xbox headset adapter or a headset and I don't really want to get one if I don't need it. Ive been using the xbox through toslink but I haven't need to chat until now.  I dont think its possible but any help would be appreciated, thanks


 
  
 Your chat would need to feed into the xBox, so why even get the SB-ZxR involved?


----------



## alv4426

I'd like to use its software and mic, but yeah Im not sure how to get the signal back to the xbox. I just read up a little on hooking up desktop mics to the xbox and they all use the headset adapter to do it which I guess answers my question. Meh, I guess its a good excuse to buy some new gear.


----------



## st0neh

bavinck said:


> Ps4 is selling record numbers, xbone not too far behind. That's a big install base. Why can creative not design a SBX lossless (HDMI( surround device for them that sounds better than the mixamp? Seems like a no brainer to me.


 
  
 Does the PS4 even have any lossless gaming audio to work with? I'd assume all the games are going to just be using compressed formats anyway.
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3rdAmigo* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Right!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 What settings is Battlefield set to? IIRC it already has its own surround processing mix when you set it to headphones so you may already be receiving virtual surround. Enabling it via your sound card may just be processing it twice and making it sound worse.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

Hi guys. I recieved the Game-one headset today from Seinnheiser.
  
 AKG k702; AKG k 612Pro; Sennheiser Game-one
  
 Having used the SBX features in my SB-E5 Their appears to be little diference in battlefield 4, the headphones perform better for positional audio in their purest form, without anything other than an AMP. SBX surround just sounds more 'echoey', the reverb doesnt seem to do its job (gaming) properly regardless of settings used whether its 10% or 100%. The 612 is definately difficult to drive! Even With the SB-E5 I can go max volume, its borderline. Pffff now I am thinking return the E5 and buy a Schiit stack 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  However, I have not yet tried the k612 for gaming yet I will do that this evening and report back.
  
 As Mad Lust Envy pointed out the AKG702 is not so nice/fun to listen to, yes the positional sound in fps games is incredible but I am slowly getting back into my music having decided to buy some nice headphones and realising how nice they can be to listen to, through?
  
 I like classical, also "2 cello's" (a band ...you tube search   Rolling Stones, ACDC, Nirvana, The Eels, Jazz, Blues, Marley, Jon Butler. The  'hang drum' (e.g hang massive) sounds amazing on these phones! . the hang drum sounds incredible on the K612 and game-one. The AKG 702 is going back to the shop, its just not fun to listen to at all. K612 'significantly' more bass. K612 also slightly more suited to my narrow head, slightly tighter clamp than the 702.
  
 I might order the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro and Sennheiser 598 and see how they compare to the K612 and game-one. So far I think the game-one provides the better musical experience! Although sometimes, and this may well be a 'track quality' issue, on youtube for example.
  
 I cant stop listening to this performance on 'the voice' his voice is simply incredible!! (Ihope I dont get into trouble for going slightly off topic??) Sorry if you dont like bob!
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ1Oz6K4rOI


----------



## Evshrug

Yup, the K612 is definitely a power-hungry headphone... But feed it well and it will reward you! On the E5 (btw they're supposed to go on sale tomorrow, so you might want to ask about a price match), you might prefer high-gain mode. The K612 used a higher volume setting than the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880 for me!

The description of SBX you wrote, where increasing the surround just increases the echo, seems to describe a settings issue where SBX is only receiving two channels... This might feel like a weird description, but just go with me: BF3 & 4 have a "headphone" and a "home theater" mode, "headphone" mode processes a headphone surround "mix" and creates a 2-channel result BEFORE the audio gets to a soundcard and before SBX can process it... and SBX surround just adds a bunch of undesirable reverb to 2-channel audio. The settings you want: in the Windows system sound panel, you need to check the 5.1/7.1 channel setting. Then, in the BF game, you actually want to choose the "Home Theater" setting to get max audio quality with least processing. Finally, your E5 should actually be receiving a surround input now. I recommend turning off everything but Surround till you get the hang of it, and try 67-100% setting on surround. The processing won't work right if you didn't have the right three settings: Windows 5.1/7.1, BF4 "Home Theater," and SBX surround.

And you should avoid volume dials on headphone cables if at all possible, any reduction from max there just adds resistance and muddies the sound detail... Just leave the headphone at max and have your PC start from a very low %... It's at like 20% for me. On my K612, it's a bit higher, but safer for your ears to start low


----------



## mindbomb

As someone who does play a lot of bf4 with similar headphones, I feel you must be doing something wrong if you find it sounding good without some type of headphone surround sound. There are a few things you need to make sure you do. First, there is a switch in the driver for speakers/headphones. Make sure it is set to headphones - this enables the headphone amp and it also sets sbx surround for headphones instead of speakers (the horrible echo on headphones often comes in speaker mode). Second, configure all software as if you had 5.1 speakers - battlefield 4 should be set to home cinema + surround, windows needs to be set to 5.1 and 24 bit, 48khz. Third, try to keep windows volume around 50% or lower so you have some protection against clipping - and since you are lowering volume digitally, this is why it is important to be in a 24 bit format, to maximize dynamic range.
  
 It's very important to use virtual surround sound when gaming. Not only is it more immersive, but there is a competitive advantage as well in being able to distinguish between front and back. This is something you can't do without it, as you will only have left and right with stereo.


----------



## theragekage

Forgive my noobness, but I was wondering if someone could help me understand a little more about the G5. Assuming it is compatible with the XBONE, why would it be a better option than the mixamp? Wouldn't both of them be decoding Dolby anyway? Would the only advantage over the mixamp (for someone who is strictly an Xbox gamer) be a slightly better amp?


----------



## Sam21

the difference is the DAC and AMP chips used in each unit, the E5 uses higher quality components.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, do I miss the K612.


----------



## l00l

Can anybody recommend a decent stereo headphone amp (max $ 100, maybe mobile amp?) to power my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro. I feel like they need a little more power connecting them with my AVR and they do for sure if I connect them to my iPod. 
Since I already have an AVR with Silent Cinema and an Astro mixamp pro with Dolby Headphone for gaming, I think a normal stereo amp will do the trick.


----------



## Sam21

l00l said:


> Can anybody recommend a decent stereo headphone amp (max $ 100, maybe mobile amp?) to power my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro. I feel like they need a little more power connecting them with my AVR and they do for sure if I connect them to my iPod.
> Since I already have an AVR with Silent Cinema and an Astro mixamp pro with Dolby Headphone for gaming, I think a normal stereo amp will do the trick.


 
  
 Magni 2 / Magni 2 Uber / Lake people G103-S 
  
 these may not be as cheap as you like, but they have plenty of power.


----------



## bavinck

Fiio E12, Cayin C5 - both mobile, small, powerful and sound awesome.


----------



## lenroot77

90 dollars shipped! CONUS
Pm me any questions.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=lenroot77&ftab=AllFeedback


----------



## shuto77

*Post removed*


----------



## AxelCloris

The best way to advertise your own listings is to link the post in your signature. Directly talking about a listing on the forums is something you'll want to avoid as it's frowned upon by the moderators. They've spoken out in the past about members soliciting their own sales, so it's best to simply avoid the practice altogether.


----------



## Change is Good

Yup. If you aren't familiar with how they show up on your signature, just look at ours.


----------



## RedJohn456

I am finding the E17 to be an okay pairing with my playstation 3 but I crave the surround sound effect that I saw in the videos in the first post. Would the Astro mix amp pro be atleast as good sounding as the E17? Are there any alternatives to the mix amp pro?
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Man, do I miss the K612.




You should hear mine now, with the amp that I ordered in like April which just arrived two days ago O.O
I do like my K612 straight out of my iPad, but they scale so well if you feed them with a powerful amp and a super DAC. My best stuff that I just got hooked up costs almost 10x as much as I spent on my K612, and each addition elevated the K612 higher! Still, wish I had something like a balanced HE-560 or PM-2 here, or... or... an Ether. Oooooo who whowhoo!

Even hooked up to the headphone jack of the X7 though, the Cavalli Liquid Carbon still kicks ass with the K612 and makes a noticeable soundstage improvement and ups the "life" of the sound.


----------



## Evshrug

redjohn456 said:


> I am finding the E17 to be an okay pairing with my playstation 3 but I crave the surround sound effect that I saw in the videos in the first post. Would the Astro mix amp pro be atleast as good sounding as the E17? Are there any alternatives to the mix amp pro?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



The answer to your first question is "No," and the answer to the second question is in the first link of my signature


----------



## l00l

bavinck said:


> Fiio E12, Cayin C5 - both mobile, small, powerful and sound awesome.


 
  
 I am intrigued by the Fiio products - the mobility would be an added bonus. 
 Any idea of how the E12 compares to the E17k?
 I am aware that the E12 is (only) an amp whreas the E17k is alos a USB DAC. But doesn´t the E17k also work as a stereo/analog only amp with having the added benefit of also supporting digital input (USB and coaxial). If so I think the E17k would be the better choice here since it is more versatile and does the same things the E12 does, right???
 Or is the E17k that much of a worse amp compared to the E12?
  
 thanks


----------



## odib

I was searching through the net for any new information on any of surround sound devices and found these about the Blasterx G5.
  
 https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://toutiao.com/i6218842521783501314/&prev=search
  
 https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://spec.tgbus.com/hard/2240/creative-announce-sound-blaster-x-series-products/&prev=search
  
 The first link has more close up pics of the G5 in action while the second link shows some of the software interface. Both links stated that they would be on sale in January 2016.
  
 I also found a link of a video that showed the Turtle Beach TAC at this year's E3, I'll provide a link if you guys want.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

l00l said:


> I am intrigued by the Fiio products - the mobility would be an added bonus.
> Any idea of how the E12 compares to the E17k?
> I am aware that the E12 is (only) an amp whreas the E17k is alos a USB DAC. But doesn´t the E17k also work as a stereo/analog only amp with having the added benefit of also supporting digital input (USB and coaxial). If so I think the E17k would be the better choice here since it is more versatile and does the same things the E12 does, right???
> Or is the E17k that much of a worse amp compared to the E12?
> ...




Amp? Yes. The E17 is a mere fraction of the power the E12 has, and I consider the E12 to BARELY approach an entry level desktop amp in terms of recommendations for full sized headphones that should be amped. So no, don't expect the E17 to power something like AKGs anywere near their ability.

Get a desktop amp if you wanna power full sized headphones that aren't sensitive 32ohm beaters. Just my two cents.

The E17k is a better choice if you have nothing else, as far as dacs and sources go. In terms of amping, don't rely on the E17 for anything but easy to power stuff.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

evshrug said:


> Yup, the K612 is definitely a power-hungry headphone... But feed it well and it will reward you! On the E5 (btw they're supposed to go on sale tomorrow, so you might want to ask about a price match), you might prefer high-gain mode. The K612 used a higher volume setting than the 600 ohm Beyerdynamic DT880 for me!
> 
> The description of SBX you wrote, where increasing the surround just increases the echo, seems to describe a settings issue where SBX is only receiving two channels... This might feel like a weird description, but just go with me: BF3 & 4 have a "headphone" and a "home theater" mode, "headphone" mode processes a headphone surround "mix" and creates a 2-channel result BEFORE the audio gets to a soundcard and before SBX can process it... and SBX surround just adds a bunch of undesirable reverb to 2-channel audio. The settings you want: in the Windows system sound panel, you need to check the 5.1/7.1 channel setting. Then, in the BF game, you actually want to choose the "Home Theater" setting to get max audio quality with least processing. Finally, your E5 should actually be receiving a surround input now. I recommend turning off everything but Surround till you get the hang of it, and try 67-100% setting on surround. The processing won't work right if you didn't have the right three settings: Windows 5.1/7.1, BF4 "Home Theater," and SBX surround.
> 
> And you should avoid volume dials on headphone cables if at all possible, any reduction from max there just adds resistance and muddies the sound detail... Just leave the headphone at max and have your PC start from a very low %... It's at like 20% for me. On my K612, it's a bit higher, but safer for your ears to start low


 
  
 Hi thanks for the repies guys appreciate it!
  
 I cannot set windows to 5.1/7.1 as I have disabled the realtek drivers, as I didnt want them interfering with the E5. I have option only for headphones. Quality was set midway in windows which I had not realised to now its set to 24/192. TIn the E5 control panel I have the option also only for h-phones. Are you suggesting I should enable my onboard sound and then try again? Windows is set to stereo speakers. not possible to change this.
  
 I have not tried setting BF4 ingame to speakers (not sure there is that option, probably due to my disabling reatek drivers?) but there is a 'surround' option which for me reduces the volume alot and sound more muffled. I am currently set at stereo in battlefiled.


----------



## l00l

mad lust envy said:


> Amp? Yes. The E17 is a mere fraction of the power the E12 has, and I consider the E12 to BARELY approach an entry level desktop amp in terms of recommendations for full sized headphones that should be amped. So no, don't expect the E17 to power something like AKGs anywere near their ability.
> 
> Get a desktop amp if you wanna power full sized headphones that aren't sensitive 32ohm beaters. Just my two cents.
> 
> The E17k is a better choice if you have nothing else, as far as dacs and sources go. In terms of amping, don't rely on the E17 for anything but easy to power stuff.


 
  
 So you´d recommend getting the E12 over the E17k?
  
 Right now - and at this point I do not have any plans to buy new headphones - I will pretty much only use the amp with my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro headphones. Will be mainly connecting them to my Yamaha AVR (80% ?) and portable devices (iphone, ipod).
  
 I tought it would be nice having the additional features of the E17k, but if the E12 is so much better as an amp - and that is what I will be using ig for mainly - then I´d rather go with the E12, I guess.


----------



## GrdironTrenches

Hey fellow audio lovers, I have a Audio GD NFB-1AMP, NFB-3DAC and a PS4. Project Ember to Astro Mixamp to PS4 works flawlessly but im upgrading to a Master11 and the NFB1,NFB3 are searching for a home. Connecting the NFB-1AMP to Astro Mixamp to PS4 RCA brings no audio. NFB1-AMP to NFB-3DAC to PS4 (optical and usb) at least has some noise but its pure static. I suspect the amp/dac needs drivers before the PS4 will recognize it. Surely someone had success with a similar setup


----------



## Evshrug

3rdamigo said:


> Hi thanks for the repies guys appreciate it!
> 
> I cannot set windows to 5.1/7.1 as I have disabled the realtek drivers, as I didnt want them interfering with the E5. I have option only for headphones. Quality was set midway in windows which I had not realised to now its set to 24/192. TIn the E5 control panel I have the option also only for h-phones. Are you suggesting I should enable my onboard sound and then try again? Windows is set to stereo speakers. not possible to change this.
> 
> I have not tried setting BF4 ingame to speakers (not sure there is that option, probably due to my disabling reatek drivers?) but there is a 'surround' option which for me reduces the volume alot and sound more muffled. I am currently set at stereo in battlefiled.



After installing the sound blaster drivers to your computer in addition to the control panel, Windows ought to give you a 5.1 option.


----------



## Sam21

evshrug said:


> After installing the sound blaster drivers to your computer in addition to the control panel, Windows ought to give you a 5.1 option.


 
 I had the E5 and I couldn't set the input channels to 5.1/7.1 in playback devices \ configure .


----------



## venkman781

odib said:


> I was searching through the net for any new information on any of surround sound devices and found these about the Blasterx G5.
> 
> https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://spec.tgbus.com/hard/2240/creative-announce-sound-blaster-x-series-products/&prev=search
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for posting this, as I've been curious about news of the release date here in the U.S. Looks like we'll have to wait until January.
  
 Maybe it's just me, but these two links look the same. Am I missing something?


----------



## 3rdAmigo

evshrug said:


> After installing the sound blaster drivers to your computer in addition to the control panel, Windows ought to give you a 5.1 option.


 
 Hi Shrugs...
  
 I have tried everthing to try to get surround option in windows. I did a complete uninstall of the E5 and reinstalled the driver but i have not updated the firmware. I have tried enabling my realtek drivers and various other things but I only get a stereo option in both Windows and in Creative control panel 
  
  
 EDIT: I found this   http://forums.creative.com/archive/index.php?t-717470.html


----------



## mindbomb

are you using usb? you have to be using usb.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

hi mindbomb
  
 yes of course.
  
 read the link i provided, the official answer from creative is that it should only ever be seen as a stereo device by windows.


----------



## Sam21

3rdamigo said:


> hi mindbomb
> 
> yes of course.
> 
> read the link i provided, the official answer from creative is that it should only ever be seen as a stereo device by windows.


 
  
 Amigo, E5 only accepts stereo [2 channels] as input. It has the ability to create surround sound out of only two channels.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

sam21 said:


> Amigo, E5 only accepts stereo [2 channels] as input. It has the ability to create surround sound out of only two channels.


 
  
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound/3450


----------



## odib

venkman781 said:


> Thanks for posting this, as I've been curious about news of the release date here in the U.S. Looks like we'll have to wait until January.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but these two links look the same. Am I missing something?


 
 Yeah they are. My mistake, I'll edit the first link.


----------



## 3rdAmigo

I emailed creative and got an answer which agrees with what someone else said earlier in the thread, sorry cant remember who! Creative said that they are releasing before Xmas in the UK. Clearly this is not a guarantee and unless they have somehow fixed the issue with windows only recognising this as a stereo only device and many games rely on the surround setting being enabled in windows I certainly will be staying away from the G5.


----------



## Sam21

the G5 and E5 both use the Axx1 DSP chip which are Dolby digital certified, meaning they can decode Dolby digital 5.1 signals coming from game consoles, but whether they are going to write a firmware for them to work or not is another question. 
  
 For PC use, I don't know maybe they are working on a new driver ?
  
 if they write a firmware for E5 to decode Dolby signals, you could buy a cheap DD encoder like the Xonar U3 and connect it via optical ports.
  
  
 That would be an odd way of doing it but then you end up having two surround virtualizers, namely, Dolby Headphone and SBX.


----------



## kman1211

evshrug said:


> You should hear mine now, with the amp that I ordered in like April which just arrived two days ago O.O
> I do like my K612 straight out of my iPad, but they scale so well if you feed them with a powerful amp and a super DAC. My best stuff that I just got hooked up costs almost 10x as much as I spent on my K612, and each addition elevated the K612 higher! Still, wish I had something like a balanced HE-560 or PM-2 here, or... or... an Ether. Oooooo who whowhoo!
> 
> Even hooked up to the headphone jack of the X7 though, the Cavalli Liquid Carbon still kicks ass with the K612 and makes a noticeable soundstage improvement and ups the "life" of the sound.




It's been so long since I last listened to the K612. Though after all this time I finally found the headphone for me, the Nighthawks completely killed my desire for any other headphone and they are amazing for gaming, spacious holographic soundstage with bass extension like a pre-fazor LCD-2 but notably more impact. In the process of selling gear and building a system around them.


----------



## raband

3rdamigo said:


> I have tried everthing to try to get surround option in windows.


 
  
 In the control panel - SBX - there's a demo clip
  
 How does that sound with SBX on vs off?


----------



## st0neh

3rdamigo said:


> I emailed creative and got an answer which agrees with what someone else said earlier in the thread, sorry cant remember who! Creative said that they are releasing before Xmas in the UK. Clearly this is not a guarantee and unless they have somehow fixed the issue with windows only recognising this as a stereo only device and many games rely on the surround setting being enabled in windows I certainly will be staying away from the G5.


 
  
 Yeah, if it registers as a stereo device in Windows all the magic in the world isn't going to stop most games refusing to output surround. It's the same stupid situation as Logitechs current drivers.


----------



## Evshrug

3rdamigo said:


> I emailed creative and got an answer which agrees with what someone else said earlier in the thread, sorry cant remember who! Creative said that they are releasing before Xmas in the UK. Clearly this is not a guarantee and unless they have somehow fixed the issue with windows only recognising this as a stereo only device and many games rely on the surround setting being enabled in windows I certainly will be staying away from the G5. :mad:



I said the timeline was looking like the X7, so release probably at the end of November/first half of December. They tend not to peg down a release date.

I think you missed the whole point of the difference between the G5 and E5. The E5 cannot decode Dolby... The G5 is supposed to connect to a game console's optical output and decode at least Dolby.


----------



## bavinck

Does anyone use plex through ps4?


----------



## MattKelly

evshrug said:


> I said the timeline was looking like the X7, so release probably at the end of November/first half of December. They tend not to peg down a release date.


 
 Gosh, I just keep waiting and waiting for the G5 (since the MixAmp is too weak to power my K7XX without extra amping) but I'm going to be so let down if I find out I can't even daisy chain the G5. I feel like I might just be wasting time...


----------



## shaolin95

Hello guys!
  
 So I was about to get the HD 650s for gaming pretty much exclusively ( since I can get them for 8 payments of $37 dollars instead of one payment without fees) but reading this it seems that is not the best choice for me.
 I do listen to music but at work and in bed so I cannot use an open headphone for that.
 So...if the HD 650s are out of the race...is the HD 600 a better option or should I go back to my original plan of the Superlux 668B, Fidelio X1 or the one that was at the top of my list recently, the SHP9500 ?
 I always wanted the 650s but perhaps for my needs and for the money, it will be a bit of a waste just for gaming.
 What you guys think?


----------



## inseconds99

shaolin95 said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> So I was about to get the HD 650s for gaming pretty much exclusively ( since I can get them for 8 payments of $37 dollars instead of one payment without fees) but reading this it seems that is not the best choice for me.
> I do listen to music but at work and in bed so I cannot use an open headphone for that.
> ...


 though I have not personally heard the hd600's, I hear their sound stage is non existent. I'd personally like the hd650 though it had it set of issues. I am actually planning on repurchasing them again soon. I have a huge review in this thread of you like to look up my name as it might give you some better clarity.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD650 is an amazing headphone, it's just not the best for gaming due to it's quite warm sound signature which hampers the soundstage quite a bit, and we all know that soundstage is a necessity for a great gaming experience.


So Stillhart, being the good friend he is, sent me a Noble Audio BTS, which you can get HERE.

It's a very small wireless bluetooth receiver that you can basically clip on, and transforms all your IEMs to wireless.

You guys know I'm not an IEM guy, but I wanted to try it out with the Koss clip ons. The Koss KSC35 can actually go louder with the Noble than just out of my Nexus 6. I'll probably have to do a small writeup for the guide. It sounds very good and loud, and I don't hear any artifacts or anything. Not as clean as wired, but I'd say it's still very, very good. I'm impressed.

The Ultrasone HS-15G which is a quite hard to drive due to low volume being an issue with it, needs to be maxed out as I expected but I'd say the volume gets moderately loud, so I would still use it with the Noble with the 15G for TV shows, which is surprising. Definitely starved for power though, it sucked out the bass big time, and the 15G isn't a slouch in bass, lol. That being said, I'm betting that the Noble BTS wouldn't be limited to just IEMs, and some super sensitive over ears would sound good with it, like perhaps the Beyer COP. I definitely recommend warm headphones, since cold/bright ones may lose some meatiness through wireless.

It's $99, and honestly, just for the fact that it works with the Koss KSC35/Sportapro, I would have no issues with spending that to cut the cord between my phone/laptop and my headphones. I can tuck in the cable and Noble BTW behind my shirt/over my undershirt, and not have to worry about snags and stuff.

I hope it works with my incoming Senn PMX95.

This defeats the purpose of the Sennheiser MM100 I just got, so I'm gonna have to eat up a restocking fee. The MM100 didn't sound all too good, with the problem again of the drivers not pressing against my ears strong enough and losing so much SQ because of it. I fear the PMX95 is gonna have the same issue. I need a clampy behind the neck headphone that isn't gonna sound thin due to driver distance.


----------



## shaolin95

mad lust envy said:


> The HD650 is an amazing headphone, it's just not the best for gaming due to it's quite warm sound signature which hampers the soundstage quite a bit, and we all know that soundstage is a necessity for a great gaming experience.


 
 I have read that there is an older version that was warmer and the newer which is not. Is that accurate or even the newer one is still too warm?
 I guess based on your comment that the SHP9500 or Fidelio X1 will be a better option for me or even a Superlux 668B and save a lot of money in the process.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The newer one is still on the warm side compared to the HD600. The HD600 is known to not be great for gaming either. They both lack soundstage.


----------



## shaolin95

mad lust envy said:


> The newer one is still on the warm side compared to the HD600. The HD600 is known to not be great for gaming either. They both lack soundstage.


 
 That does it for both of them from my list then.
 Thanks for this thread...is a fantastic resource! 
 BTW, I know its a personal preference but out of curiosity., which is one is your favorite at the Fidelio X1 price range (well $150) and lower for gaming?


----------



## Evshrug

mattkelly said:


> Gosh, I just keep waiting and waiting for the G5 (since the MixAmp is too weak to power my K7XX without extra amping) but I'm going to be so let down if I find out I can't even daisy chain the G5. I feel like I might just be wasting time...



I still doubt that the G5 will have that LAN niche feature built-in. I could be wrong. But still, you could future-proof your setup with a sound board or mixer that lets you take multiple inputs and outputs, sound clearer too. But Creative could surprise us.




shaolin95 said:


> Hello guys!
> 
> So I was about to get the HD 650s for gaming pretty much exclusively ( since I can get them for 8 payments of $37 dollars instead of one payment without fees) but reading this it seems that is not the best choice for me.
> I do listen to music but at work and in bed so I cannot use an open headphone for that.
> ...




I got to hear the HD600 and HD650 again at a local store, plugged into my own DAC+amp and also Sennheiser's HDVD-800. It is a good headphone, coming from something entry-level the HD6xx are impressive, and many people over time considered it endgame. For me though, I've heard more impressive headphones. It's a bit grainy and not as clear as other choices (almost lends a vinyl sound to music, so it's forgiving but not true to the original performance), and that hurts it's ability to separately hear different sounds and project a sound to seem like it's coming from outside your head. The pads are nicely shaped and velour, but they're just foam... AKG memory foam and other newer pads seem like they'd last longer before becoming itchy or disintegrating.

They're very good for music, and probably enjoyable, but their strengths don't play to gaming unless you're just looking for a sound signature that isn't fatiguing. I'd look at a Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG K612 (better with a good amp!), K7XX, AD700x or AD900x, or maybe a Phillips SPH9500 (haven't heard this one).


----------



## shaolin95

evshrug said:


> I still doubt that the G5 will have that LAN niche feature built-in. I could be wrong. But still, you could future-proof your setup with a sound board or mixer that lets you take multiple inputs and outputs, sound clearer too. But Creative could surprise us.
> I got to hear the HD600 and HD650 again at a local store, plugged into my own DAC+amp and also Sennheiser's HDVD-800. It is a good headphone, coming from something entry-level the HD6xx are impressive, and many people over time considered it endgame. For me though, I've heard more impressive headphones. It's a bit grainy and not as clear as other choices (almost lends a vinyl sound to music, so it's forgiving but not true to the original performance), and that hurts it's ability to separately hear different sounds and project a sound to seem like it's coming from outside your head. The pads are nicely shaped and velour, but they're just foam... AKG memory foam and other newer pads seem like they'd last longer before becoming itchy or disintegrating.
> 
> They're very good for music, and probably enjoyable, but their strengths don't play to gaming unless you're just looking for a sound signature that isn't fatiguing. I'd look at a Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG K612 (better with a good amp!), K7XX, AD700x or AD900x, or maybe a Phillips SPH9500 (haven't heard this one).


 
 I have decided to go with the SHP9500 then thanks to the help I got here.  I was going to get the superlux 668B but looks like the 9500 is a step above so why not?


----------



## l00l

bavinck said:


> Fiio E12, Cayin C5 - both mobile, small, powerful and sound awesome.




I have looked into the E12 a little bit and it really seems to be a viable option based on user reviews. Now, the question I keep asking myself is if the E12 is in fact a good piece of equipment to upgrade my current setup. Would this be a good upgrade from the Fiio E6 that I use roght now with my Yamaha AVR and my mobile devices? Or would something else be a better choice?

With all the different options out there (amps, dacs, stuff like creative x7 etc) I find it kind of hard to figure out wha's the way to go in terms of improving audio quality.


----------



## shuto77

l00l said:


> I have looked into the E12 a little bit and it really seems to be a viable option based on user reviews. Now, the question I keep asking myself is if the E12 is in fact a good piece of equipment to upgrade my current setup. Would this be a good upgrade from the Fiio E6 that I use roght now with my Yamaha AVR and my mobile devices? Or would something else be a better choice?
> 
> With all the different options out there (amps, dacs, stuff like creative x7 etc) I find it kind of hard to figure out wha's the way to go in terms of improving audio quality.




I was exactly where you were two years ago, and I'm just now able to articulate what I like, what I don't like, and how to get the best bang for my audio dollar. This is a long process. Honestly, the short answer is, for console gaming, just get an X7. The answer may be the same for pc gaming, but I have no experience there. 

Regarding the improvement of sound quality in general, that's a big question, dependent on a host variables, including personal preference, type of use, and as always in tech, budget. 

We can point you in the right direction for your audio vision quest, but we wouldn't want to derail this thread.


----------



## bavinck

l00l said:


> I have looked into the E12 a little bit and it really seems to be a viable option based on user reviews. Now, the question I keep asking myself is if the E12 is in fact a good piece of equipment to upgrade my current setup. Would this be a good upgrade from the Fiio E6 that I use roght now with my Yamaha AVR and my mobile devices? Or would something else be a better choice?
> 
> With all the different options out there (amps, dacs, stuff like creative x7 etc) I find it kind of hard to figure out wha's the way to go in terms of improving audio quality.




For listening to music I really think a good starting point would be the cayin c5dac. Amp and dac, otg USB for your phone and computer, excellent sound quality. Sq for gaming imo not as important as dsp. E12 would be a noticeable improvement to your current setup but would still rely on you computer and phone dac.


----------



## l00l

shuto77 said:


> I was exactly where you were two years ago, and I'm just now able to articulate what I like, what I don't like, and how to get the best bang for my audio dollar. This is a long process. Honestly, the short answer is, for console gaming, just get an X7. The answer may be the same for pc gaming, but I have no experience there.
> 
> Regarding the improvement of sound quality in general, that's a big question, dependent on a host variables, including personal preference, type of use, and as always in tech, budget.
> 
> We can point you in the right direction for your audio vision quest, but we wouldn't want to derail this thread.


 
 I am using it for the 3 things:
 1. TV (digital cable, PS4 Blu Ray, Apple TV) - 60 %
 2. gaming (PS4) - 30 %
 3. music - 10 %, since I mainly listen to music on the go, not at home.
  
 And I should also mention that I already have an Astro Mixamp pro hooked up to my PS4, which I really like. Now, I assume the X7 would be an upgrade in comparison, right?
  
 I wouldn´t mind spending a little bit more on an X7 at all IF it serves all my needs and is the best option going forward. However with my many different sources (at least cable, PS4, Apple TV) and the X7 not having an HDMI port I am not really sure if the X7 is the right way to go for me?!?!
 But maybe someone can answer that and paint a clearer picture of what the X7 can and can not do and should be used for and what not.
  
 Sorry for the noob questions and thanks for any help in advance.


----------



## shuto77

l00l said:


> I am using it for the 3 things:
> 1. TV (digital cable, PS4 Blu Ray, Apple TV) - 60 %
> 2. gaming (PS4) - 30 %
> 3. music - 10 %, since I mainly listen to music on the go, not at home.
> ...




For ultimate convenience, today's avrs are unbeatable. Their drawback is that their performance with headphones isn't great, or even remotely close to good. Today's $600 avrs are amazing machines, really. They just use low-quality parts for their headphone implementation that makes them poor matches for those of us who use headphones. 

I used to have a complicated 5.1 surround sound setup with an avr and a Mixamp. Once I switched to 90% headphones, the avr's headphone performance wasn't cutting it.

The big drawback of going from an avr to the X7 is the lack of inputs (just one toslink). The lack of hdmi from a fidelity perspective is negligible, and is actually preferable for gaming (less input lag). The loss of DTS and 7.1 surround is a non-issue if you're using headphones. 

Because you use multiple sources, however, losing the hdmi switching functionality would be irritating, so I don't know if you'd ultimately be happier if you switched to the X7. 

You're probably better off waiting for the Soundblaster G5, and going with that provided it's a big step up from the mixamp, which @evshrug can speak to. Not sure if anyone else here has tried both.


----------



## l00l

shuto77 said:


> The big drawback of going from an avr to the X7 is the lack of inputs (just one toslink). The lack of hdmi from a fidelity perspective is negligible, and is actually preferable for gaming (less input lag). The loss of DTS and 7.1 surround is a non-issue if you're using headphones.
> 
> Because you use multiple sources, however, losing the hdmi switching functionality would be irritating, so I don't know if you'd ultimately be happier if you switched to the X7.




That is exactly why I am hesitant. I'd hate to buy such a device only to discover that while it might be great by itself it just can't handle all the stuff I want to throw at it. And that is why I figured it might be better to upgrade may AVR if that is at all possible. But if that is more or less considered just throwing money away I will stick with what I have.


----------



## shuto77

l00l said:


> That is exactly why I am hesitant. I'd hate to buy such a device only to discover that while it might be great by itself it just can't handle all the stuff I want to throw at it. And that is why I figured it might be better to upgrade may AVR if that is at all possible. But if that is more or less considered just throwing money away I will stick with what I have.




Yeah, I'd sit tight if I were you, with your preferences. 

It really comes down to whether you use headphones or speakers. Headphone inputs and amps are not a priority in today's avrs. Even if you spend $1,000 on an av receiver, I can assure you it will be inferior to the X7's headphone performance. In that case, you'd be better off spending $400 on the X7 and $500-600 for the avr. 

Good luck either way.


----------



## Evshrug

l00l said:


> I have looked into the E12 a little bit and it really seems to be a viable option based on user reviews. Now, the question I keep asking myself is if the E12 is in fact a good piece of equipment to upgrade my current setup. Would this be a good upgrade from the Fiio E6 that I use roght now with my Yamaha AVR and my mobile devices? Or would something else be a better choice?
> 
> With all the different options out there (amps, dacs, stuff like creative x7 etc) I find it kind of hard to figure out wha's the way to go in terms of improving audio quality.




I own and have written reviews on both the E12 and X7... Check my signature if you'd like to read them. To keep from derailing this thread, maybe make a post on my thread about DSPs and setup?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal


----------



## grownasssman

shuto77 said:


> For ultimate convenience, today's avrs are unbeatable. Their drawback is that their performance with headphones isn't great, or even remotely close to good. Today's $600 avrs are amazing machines, really. They just use low-quality parts for their headphone implementation that makes them poor matches for those of us who use headphones.
> 
> I used to have a complicated 5.1 surround sound setup with an avr and a Mixamp. Once I switched to 90% headphones, the avr's headphone performance wasn't cutting it.
> 
> ...




So evshrug has tried the g5 already?


----------



## Evshrug

grownasssman said:


> So evshrug has tried the g5 already?




I'm getting one but haven't tried one yet. I have tried an E5... And an X7, Mixamp, Mixamp 5.8, DSS, Yamaha receiver (with Silent Cinema), Recon3D, Omni 5.1.

I'm expecting the G5 to basically be an E5 with Dolby decoding, and an LED that dims based on volume setting. If it has any surprise capabilities, good, but a console-aimed E5 will already be a step up from the Mixamp in DAC, amp, and background noise quality.


----------



## grownasssman

Good to hear. I almost bought an e5 a while back. The mixamp sounds pretty good with my lab m4u1s but as has been stated before it's not enough to run my q701s decently. I just ordered a schitt magni to try out until the g5 is released. Also from what my Xbox friends have told me the mixamp tr usb chat sounds Crystal clear.


----------



## VirtualBoost

Yo everybody.

I'm currently looking for a new pair of headphones. However, I have serious issues with clamping/tight HPs, as they usually start to hurt on the top of my head. I have tried the NAD Viso HP50 over the weekend, but they make My head hurt after an hour or so of usage, so I plan to return them. 

The problem is that I have no clue in what to get. I really liked the sound of the NAD Viso HP50 (kinda warm Sounding HP), so I would like something that sound similar. I mainly listen to metal, post-hardcore, but I can listen to other genres too. Another priority is comfort, as I want to be able to use them for longer periods of time when I'm gaming. What I used for my PC until I tried the NAD Viso HP50 was a pair of QPad QH-90, which is also known as the Kingston HyperX Cloud. They are based on the Takstar Pro80, which I could wear the entire day without any Pain whatsoever. 

My budget is around 299$, but I think I can stretch to 399$ if needed. 

Sorry for the long post, but I hope I can get some help from this matter.

(Btw, I also have a Oneplus Two invite that goes out today. If Anyone wants it they can have it!)


----------



## waynes world

VirtualBoost, you may want to look into the new sony 100aap's. Very comfy, and they soung great.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/779750/sony-h-ear-on-mdr-100aap-199-hi-res-audio-over-ear-headphones/1020_30#post_12099269


----------



## VirtualBoost

waynes world Thanks for the tip. Do you know how these would compare to the NAD Viso HP50?


----------



## Yethal

You know what would help this thread? A Head-Fi meet dedicated to gaming devices instead of pure audio devices. People could come by, take a listen to the Mixamp, the X7, DSS and all the other stuff and judge for themselves what sounds best for them. We could even have a little LAN party down the line.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My Sennheiser PMX95 finally arrived. After the huge disappointment that was the Motorola neckband Headphone I bought and the Sennheiser MM100 wireless neckband Headphone losing its good SQ through the pads, I expected a similar outcome with the PMX95, also being neckband style.

The only difference here being that this one isn't wireless.

So first impressions: Jesus Christ the first song I played sounded like the worst headphones I've ever heard. I thought I definitely received a counterfeit... Then I remembered that sometimes, SOMETIMES, my Nexus 6 plays music horribly if I start from a long period of not playing anything.... so I switched tracks and the went back, and BOOM... there it was. Lovely, full, dynamic... ALL SENNHEISER.

I'm ecstatic by its SQ. I'm convinced this does use PX100-II drivers, though due to clamp difference, it's not as warm and bass heavy BUT still definitely warm and not lacking in bass whatsoever. It actually sounds more balanced, while still being full. I'm super happy with the PMX95, and it makes me wonder why the hell it's discontinued. Definitely a gem that few people have heard.

Oh it also has vertical swivel on the pads, so the neckband better fits more people. It's super freaking comfy. I honestly couldn't have expected better. Using it now with the Noble BTS, and I honestly can't tell it's a wireless signal. This is gonna definitely be my replacement for the Koss clip ons.

Anyone looking for that portable open Headphone that won't move around your head, needs to go on EBay and snatch the PMX95 asap. Its gonna come from Germany from like the only seller that has it in stock (I checked, only one seller with multiple listings).


----------



## venkman781

Newbie here, but wanted to share my enthusiasm for the g5. I recently purchased the Sennheiser Game One headset to use with my PS4. Having had a decent experience with the Sony Golds, I was blown away by the difference in sound quality from the Game One when paired with an Earforce DSS. The positional cues are really amazing in Fallout 4. The only limiting factor is the fact that I cannot use the mic on the Game One with the DSS, which I'm hoping the g5 will address. While the Game One headset gets decent gain in the current setup with the DSS, I'm anxious to see how it performs with amping from the g5.


----------



## Sam21

So, I have a Recon3D and an X7, will the chat on PS4 work If I connect the optical to X7 and my Microphone to the Mic-In on Recon3d ?


----------



## Sam21

Has anyone tried Asus's Sonic Radar ? I have it on my Xonar U7 Echelon and quite like it.


----------



## l00l

evshrug said:


> I'm getting one but haven't tried one yet. I have tried an E5... And an X7, Mixamp, Mixamp 5.8, DSS, Yamaha receiver (with Silent Cinema), Recon3D, Omni 5.1.
> 
> I'm expecting the G5 to basically be an E5 with Dolby decoding, and an LED that dims based on volume setting. If it has any surprise capabilities, good, but a console-aimed E5 will already be a step up from the Mixamp in DAC, amp, and background noise quality.




So the G5 will be an upgrade from the Astro Mixamp Pro, right? Can I also use the G5 as a straight forward amp with my AVR or is this not going to be possible?

The more I read about it the E12 really seems to be a nice high quality option and I am sort of leaning torwards getting one over an X7. Since the G5 should be released shortly I will wait a little longer and see how it compares to the E12 however.


----------



## Sam21

l00l said:


> So the G5 will be an upgrade from the Astro Mixamp Pro, right? *Can I also use the G5 as a straight forward amp* with my AVR or is this not going to be possible?
> 
> The more I read about it the E12 really seems to be a nice high quality option and I am sort of leaning torwards getting one over an X7. Since the G5 should be released shortly I will wait a little longer and see how it compares to the E12 however.


 
  
 Analog-in on E5 gets processed by the ADC , same thing happens on X7, I am going to guess that it is the same on G5 as well.


----------



## grownasssman

quick question how much better is the magni 2 uber than the magni 2 I'm just going to be using it with a mixamp and some q701s or psb m4u1s.


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> So, I have a Recon3D and an X7, will the chat on PS4 work If I connect the optical to X7 and my Microphone to the Mic-In on Recon3d ?




Use the extension cable that came with the Recon 3d with the x7. The buy a ps4 char cable and plug it into the extension cable and the controller.


----------



## AdamG666

Does anyone use the audio technica ath 50x on the turtle beach dss 1? Just wondering if they hiss much, my sennheiser hd 202s hiss with the dss but not much. Was thinking of getting the 50x but thinking they might hiss more?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's the DSS that hisses, not the headphones. You'd have to get a high impedance headphone + amp to mitigate the hiss. Sensitive headphones like the M50x and HD202 will all hiss quite a bit.


----------



## l00l

sam21 said:


> Analog-in on E5 gets processed by the ADC , same thing happens on X7, I am going to guess that it is the same on G5 as well.




So it would get processed twice if I connect it to an AVR? First by the AVR and a second time by the G5?


----------



## AdamG666

Deleted


----------



## AdamG666

Deleted


----------



## AdamG666

mad lust envy said:


> It's the DSS that hisses, not the headphones. You'd have to get a high impedance headphone + amp to mitigate the hiss. Sensitive headphones like the M50x and HD202 will all hiss quite a bit.


 

The sennheisers hiss is very low you cant hear it if there is any sound. Do you think the 50x will hiss about the same or a lot more? Is there anything better than the dss thats not really expensive that wont hiss? Its for PS4


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why do you want the ATH-M50x for gaming anyway? Kinda exaggerating but it basically has no soundstage/air.


----------



## AdamG666

fegefeuer said:


> Why do you want the ATH-M50x for gaming anyway? Kinda exaggerating but it basically has no soundstage/air.


 Yea and for movies. They will be plugged into the dss which will surly still give me surround sound? The sennheiser hd 202s i use produce a very good surround sound with the dss will the 50x not produce about the same? I thought it would just sound about the same if not better with more detail


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you really need closed headphones then the Creative Aurvana Live is definitely a better choice.


----------



## AdamG666

fegefeuer said:


> If you really need closed headphones then the Creative Aurvana Live is definitely a better choice.


 Any reason why? £60 on amazon which is £30 cheaper than the 50x.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The CAL has a better soundstage than the M50X. It makes a better choice for gaming and movies, IMHO. Music... that's debateable, as the M50X is fantastic for music. All we're saying is that the M50X isn't the best choice due to a small soundstage. That being said, the HD202 isn't known for soundstage either, so perhaps you'd be happy with the M50X in any case. Like I always say, even a headphone with small soundstage benefiots from virtual surround. And the M50X is much better built.


----------



## RedJohn456

evshrug said:


> You should hear mine now, with the amp that I ordered in like April which just arrived two days ago O.O
> I do like my K612 straight out of my iPad, but they scale so well if you feed them with a powerful amp and a super DAC. My best stuff that I just got hooked up costs almost 10x as much as I spent on my K612, and each addition elevated the K612 higher! Still, wish I had something like a balanced HE-560 or PM-2 here, or... or... an Ether. Oooooo who whowhoo!
> 
> Even hooked up to the headphone jack of the X7 though, the Cavalli Liquid Carbon still kicks ass with the K612 and makes a noticeable soundstage improvement and ups the "life" of the sound.


 
  
 The K612 is dope, it wasnt until I tried a bunch of other headphones that I realized how awesome it is. Granted its a loaner, I might end up getting a pair of my own. What amps are you using them with?
  


evshrug said:


> The answer to your first question is "No," and the answer to the second question is in the first link of my signature


 
  
 So you are referring to the E3 right? I was hoping to get something that would make for a noticeable upgrade over the E17 in sound as well have the surround sound effects. What would would recommend in that case?


----------



## burritoboy9984

www.massdrop.com/buy/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00/


----------



## PacoTaco

burritoboy9984 said:


> www.massdrop.com/buy/fostex-x-massdrop-th-x00/


 
 Haha, don't temp MLE with another Fostex TH-series.
  
 I really want to try these. It would be a different "taste" than my Omnis.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah. I expected it to be TH-600 level goodness, which is fine, but I'm not buying any more pleather padded headphones ever, even if it was a D7000 v.2

The only full size I could see myself buying would have to be a meaty, planar with LCD2/HE-400 bass. Since HFM seems so adamant on giving me an HE-400 with less treble, as opposed to their steps towards LESS bass, it doesn't look like nothing will pique my interest. I don't like the idea of small Oppo/Fostex planar drivers either. I want a big magnet array like the HE-400. Something that moves serious air.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Nah. I expected it to be TH-600 level goodness, which is fine, but I'm not buying any more pleather padded headphones ever, even if it was a D7000 v.2
> 
> The only full size I could see myself buying would have to be a meaty, planar with LCD2/HE-400 bass. Since HFM seems so adamant on giving me an HE-400 with less treble, as opposed to their steps towards LESS bass, it doesn't look like nothing will pique my interest. I don't like the idea of small Oppo/Fostex planar drivers either. I want a big magnet array like the HE-400. Something that moves serious air.


 
  
  The ZMF Vibro is pretty meaty. It's more of a heavy decay effect though. Personally, the only mods (besides the Alpha Prime) of the T50RP I've listened to that could do bass seriously well was the ZMF Headphones. The Blackwood, for example, is subbass emphasized and hits like a truck. Wood seems to make up for the issues with the driver size.


----------



## raband

How are the ears/hearing going MLE?
  
 Come good?
  
 (fark I hope so - the thread needs its focal point)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The ZMF Vibro is using the T50RP as the base, right? I don't want a modded small planar driver. I want a big planar driver cpabale of pushing air, like the LCD2 and HE-400.


----------



## Fegefeuer

HE-6 used, then modded + connected to X7 speaker taps? Probably too heavy for you and DEDICATED STEREO GAMING.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I caved and bought the Sennheiser PX95 which is the headband style of my neckband PMX95. This seems illogical, but there is a reason/s.

1. When I'm home in bed, I'm pretty much always laying down. I love the PMX95 (it's not going anywhere), but it is far from ideal when I'm laying down due to the neckband pushing against the pillow, forcing the drivers out of position. So I need something that I can wear while laying down.

2. I wanna retire my Ultrasone 15G and replace it with this. I love the 15G, but it's annoyingly hard to drive if I use it with anything other than my X7. It also is an Ultyrasone, and I'm tired of finicky S-Logic ear placement. I'm constantly, constantly adjusting the 15G on my head since the sweet spot is microscopic.

3. I really, really enjoy the Sennheiser warmth over the Ultrasone's more aggressive/mid recessed tone.

4. It was $50. I would get the PX100-II instead (I expect the PX95 and PX100-II will probably sound identical going by what I hear of the PMX95 which is less clampy, and they all seem to share the same driver), but that PX100 clamp is stupid. The PX95 has a steel headband, so I don't fear stretching it out to fit my head with proper clamp.

So yeah, two similar headphones, different band styles. The PMX95 will be my portable/work headphone, and PX95 will be my home headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

BTW guys, Apparently I jumped the gun on Ebay, because Amazon has a listing for the PMX95 for less than $40. I paid $100 (shipped from Germany) just over a week ago.

If you don't mind an ultra comfy neckband headphone, I suggest one you to HURRY UP and buy the damn thing. It's awesome. I'm telling you. Great soundstage for gaming, and surround works exceptionally well.



fegefeuer said:


> HE-6 used, then modded + connected to X7 speaker taps? Probably too heavy for you and DEDICATED STEREO GAMING.




Lol, oh, I wouldn't spend anything obver $300 anymore. $400 if it's something I deem an absolute must. I'm quite happy with these little Senns atm.


----------



## Fegefeuer

hold on,
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PMX95-Neckband-portable-headphones/dp/B00DZIQRXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448465553&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+pmx+95
  
 They are around 40 bucks on amazon.com. Was it out of stock back then?


----------



## Evshrug

redjohn456 said:


> The K612 is dope, it wasnt until I tried a bunch of other headphones that I realized how awesome it is. Granted its a loaner, I might end up getting a pair of my own. What amps are you using them with?
> 
> So you are referring to the E3 right? I was hoping to get something that would make for a noticeable upgrade over the E17 in sound as well have the surround sound effects. What would would recommend in that case?



Your second question was "Are there any alternatives to the Astro Mixamp?" I tried pointing you towards my thread where I've reviewed a bunch of DSPs that are alternatives, and I didn't answer here because I didn't want to take away from this thread's headphone focus.

And I will say I've used the K612 with a bunch of amps, it's the headphone that will bring a weaker amp to it's knees and really reward a great amp. Currently, I use it with a Liquid Carbon or an E5.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> hold on,
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PMX95-Neckband-portable-headphones/dp/B00DZIQRXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448465553&sr=8-1&keywords=sennheiser+pmx+95
> 
> They are around 40 bucks on amazon.com. Was it out of stock back then?




Haven't had any neck bands for a while... Ever since my high school years sporting some Sony's. 

I'm tempted to buy a pair for my work out sessions and on the go as well when I ride the bus to work. Mainly because I don't want to mess up my hair lol. 

What would be the difference be between the pmx95 and the pmx100?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Feg, it was out of stock when I bought it. Had to get mine off Ebay. I should've waited a week or so. 

Rudy, there is no PMX100. I believe you mean PX100-II. The PX100-II is a tried and true headphone that is an easy recommend if you don't mind the typical Sennheiser clamp. 

The PX95 is supposedly a lot more comfortable, and doesn't clamp the same way. It also has a fairly simple metal headband, so you're basically just wearing two drivers held by that metal piece. 

The PMX95 is the neckband version of the PX95 . It weighs nothing, and I expect the same from the PX95 as well. SUPER comfy, but the neckband may get in your way when you move your head around, like looking up. It would make a fantastic work out headphone.

There is only one reviewer on Amazon that says the 95s don't sound as good as the PX100-II. I can't confirm since I have heard the PX100-II in two years, but I feel they sound very similar, based off memory. The PX100-II really sounds awesome, but I feel that the PMX95 does as well. I'll find out about the PX95 on Friday, which should sound like the PMX95.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Feg, it was out of stock when I bought it. Had to get mine off Ebay. I should've waited a week or so.
> 
> Rudy, there is no PMX100. I believe you mean PX100-II. The PX100-II is a tried and true headphone that is an easy recommend if you don't mind the typical Sennheiser clamp.
> 
> ...




Hmmm very interesting. I might need to read on both a bit more before making a purchase. 

I always have used IEMs for workouts and even though I like my Sound magic ES18, the little buggers will start sliding out of my ears and I will notice immediately the sound has chamged. I was thinking of getting comply foam tips and maybe those little rubber things that can be attached to IEMs and then to your ear but I feel like I will spend as much as for the PMX 95.

Might as well buy a new headphone, as an excuse lol. 

The PX100 II however..... Just by that review alone has me thibking... Even though you say they sound similar or possibly sound similar..... 

Hmmm

But I'm no fan of the Sennheiser clamp, so maybe the PX or PMX 95 could be the better choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The PMX95 will surely stay on the ears. The PX95 is a standard headband style, and may slide off, so if you're working out, I recommend the PMX95.

Let's not forget, these are all open headphones that leak a bit in/out, so don't expect isolation.


----------



## arandomguy

Assuming around the same price ($60) and mostly (or even purely) from a fun and comfort perspective -
  
 Sennhesier HD518
 Samson SR850
 JVC HARX700
  
 Also large/wide head and wearing glasses.
  
 Also in terms of 518 vs 558, would the 518 be considered more "fun" despite being lower to due to bass or?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> The PMX95 will surely stay on the ears. The PX95 is a standard headband style, and may slide off, so if you're working out, I recommend the PMX95.
> 
> Let's not forget, these are all open headphones that leak a bit in/out, so don't expect isolation.




I don't think it would matter if sound leaks out when I work out lol like the gym or out for a run. 

But I noticed that its 3.5mm doesn't have a step? That's pretty much a no for me since I was planning on using it with my phone, which has a case. Any cable that doesn't have a step on its 3.5 pretty much is a no for me


----------



## Fegefeuer

AKG K712 for 250 Dollars from NL
  
 Edit: Forgot the link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/151643353515?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## mattvisual

So many on this list is on sale now! Man I wish headphones store were a regular thing so I could try them all.


----------



## Naingolann

Sennheiser PC 350 SE for 99,00 EUR on Amazon.it.


----------



## TacticalFailure

I've been a lurker for a long time, and I just wanted to thank MLE and everyone else that has contributed to this thread for all of the info available on here. This thread was what influenced my decision to get the mixamp 5.8, and HD 558's.

Anyone have advice on how to convince the wife to let me indulge in new headphone purchases? Had my eyes on Q701's for a while now, but she isn't going for it.


----------



## mgsvr

Hello Mad Lust Envy and Evshrug,
  
 I've been following you guys' posts for a while. I got a Philips X2 thanks to MLE's recommendation! Now I am waiting for news on the Creative G5, mainly for use with my PS4.
  
 I just got myself the new Apple TV that support bluetooth connectivity. Hopefully the Creative G5 will support bluetooth so I can watch movie as well. If the G5 doesn't have bluetooth, do you guys think I should move up to the X7? All I do is gaming on my PS4 and watching movie using Apple TV with the Philips X2. The X7 seem to be over kill for my usage. Besides, does bluetooth technology only support stereo or can it send dolby digital signal as well? 
  
 I can have my TV output the optical into a TOSLINK optical switch so I can share the Creative G5 with both the Apple TV and PS4. Another idea is to get a HDMI switch with SPDIF/toslink extractor so both PS4 and Apple TV go through it and have it extract the Toslink into the G5, but I am afraid it will introduce lag input for the PS4. As of right now we do not know anything about the G5 and how many inputs it support...
  
 Thanks guys.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, the new Apple TV indeed IS able to send out Bluetooth, and I'm guessing the G5 will have Bluetooth input which will make the Apple TV connection simple and wireless. I guess not including BT on the G5 would make it cheaper... but for some reason I just wouldn't expect them to cut that. The E5 appears to be the same size and shape, has one port for optical/analogue line in, one port for optical/analogue line out, Micro USB in (for PC/Mac/PS4), USB host in (smartphone), Bluetooth in, and two headphone/analogue outputs.

Bluetooth is stereo only, so if you wanna watch a movie in surround from the Apple TV, yeah you'll need an optical connection. I get way more enjoyment out of surround games than surround movies, so I wouldn't mind a simpler setup with BT, but everybody's different!

In my X7 review (hope you liked it!), I said that the X7 is best justified if you can make use of multiple of it's features... As of this moment it's the best sounding headphone DSP on the market short of a smyth realizer (which is way more expensive), but once the G5 comes out I'd say the passive and active speaker outputs on the X7 would have to be useful to you to justify the X7 instead of a G5. If creative put out a device at a cheaper price point but cuts out things like BT and USB host mode for smartphones... then that would make the choice more clear based on your needs and wants, but something like an E5 with console surround decoding would be an all-around kickass device


----------



## Sam21

E5 only has Bluetooth receiver and not sender. G5 will be the same thing.


----------



## mgsvr

Thanks Evshrug,
  
 I don't mind watching movie in stereo with bluetooth, PS4 gaming with surround is the priority for me. I guess we will have to wait for the G5 news and hope that it support bluetooth. I really prefer bluetooth connectivity for the Apple TV, because having an optical switch I will have to go into the TV audio setup menu to change connection each time I watch a movie. If the G5 has no bluetooth, I guess I will have to get the X7 although I do not use the passive/active speaker features. Maybe wait for CES 2016 and hope for a newer X7 with enhance improvements? (maybe that's too soon for an update...)
  
 Currently Creative has a black friday sale with the X7 30% off, that bring it down to $270.


----------



## positively4th

I'm not new to head-fi but have never really thought about headphones for gaming until today. I browse through the 1st page of this post, the last 10 or so, and a bunch of google searches and reviewing some product pages, and I have to say I'm a little confused about some things and hoping for some advice/guidance.
  
 Here's what I am looking for:
  - Wireless headphones
  - Primary use is PS4 gaming
  - Surround capabilities
  - Do not look like they were made for 14 year olds (vast majority of headsets I've seen that are marketed towards gamers are just hideous. I like clean/modern/minimal design, not tacky logos, neon colors and flashing LED lights)
  - Not too heavy
  - Preferably either doesn't have a microphone or the microphone is hidden/not visible. Mic is unimportant, I have zero interest in talking during games, so if a mic is there I don't want to know about it.
  - OK for occasional tv/movie on new Apple TV
  - Open to as much as $400, ideally in the $300 price range
  
 When I browse the rest of the internet besides head-fi, I see stuff like SteelSeries Siberia P800. Seems to meet most of my criteria and has decent reviews, but seeing some questionable feedback about the quality. I really struggle to find other wireless headphones that don't look like they're made for 14 year olds and meet all my criteria but these are ones that were on the short list of ones I found that looked like they met my criteria.
  
 After browsing this post, seems that most of the headphones recommended here are wired, and there's lots of talk about headphone amps / external sound cards etc. Some newbie questions I have about this type of stuff:
  - Can you connect a headphone / external sound card directly to a PS4? Or are these external sound cards strictly for PC/MAC gamers?
  - Can an external sound card essentially give any pair of headphones "surround" (7.1) capabilities? I've got a pair of Denon AH-D2000 headphones that I'm happy with so I would be open to exploring using them for gaming
  
 Anyway curious to get thoughts on what I'm looking for and answers to some of my newbie questions.


----------



## AdamG666

Anyone know if the creative aurvana live 2 Mic works on the Dualshock 4?


----------



## 1llest

When is the Creative G5 supposed to be released? Is it compatible with the ps4 and will support game chat like the Astro Mixamp?


----------



## rudyae86

1llest said:


> When is the Creative G5 supposed to be released? Is it compatible with the ps4 and will support game chat like the Astro Mixamp?




December or January of 2016.


----------



## shuto77

rudyae86 said:


> December or January of 2016.



Does anyone know if the DAC is the same in the G5 as the X7? Also, does anyone know if we can take the SBX-processed audio signal from the G5 to an external amp?


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> Does anyone know if the DAC is the same in the G5 as the X7? Also, does anyone know if we can take the SBX-processed audio signal from the G5 to an external amp?


 
 Not much info available as of now. I dont think it has the same DAC as the X7 does. And from our guesses (and hopes) is that it could possibly send processed surround sound to an external amp via optical.
  
 Id just sit tight and wait until around Christmas to hear something about the G5


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Vibing with my PMX95 at work on Thanksgiving. Really enjoying this headphone. Though to be completely honest, it shares a lot in common with the Sportapro/KSC35, and I feel that those with the KSC75 clips makes an even easier portable headphone when absolutely on the move. When I'm stationary, I use the PMX95, but when I'm walking around, it's KSC35 all the way.

So far, the PMX95 is less grainy, and warmer than the KSC35/Sportapro. So if you like a smoother tone, the PMX95 is a better choice. It's meatier, more fleshed out.


----------



## Sam21

shuto77 said:


> Does anyone know if the DAC is the same in the G5 as the X7? Also, does anyone know if we can take the SBX-processed audio signal from the G5 to an external amp?


 
 G5 uses the CS4398 120 SNR , a decent DAC.
 X7 uses the superior PCM1794 with 127 SNR
  
 I never tested my E5 which is identical to G5 in hardware, but it seems there is a workaround for passing SBX to the line out on the G5 using the "What U Hear" option.


----------



## arandomguy

So a followup to my headphone search.
  
 I ordered HD598s on sale this season. Would be coming from KSC75s.
  
 But I'm looking at Mad Lust Envy's review and he seems to rate it pretty low in terms of "fun."
  
 I really only play single player games, so I'm wondering how much of a concern there is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I equate fun with immersion, and that demands a reasonable amount of low end/bass/oomph. The HD598 doesn't have a romanticized low end, and instead chooses to be a bit more balanced to detail oriented. There are better options for immersion, for sure. The 598 can be 'boring' in terms of fun because it doesn't have the kind of weight in the bass that I like for fun. I don't need a basshead headphone, but I do expect some decent impact. At minimum, a K7XX/K712/K702 Anniversary level bass is what I would go with.

Hell, I would recommend the 558 over the 598, since it's a bit warmer and fun despite not being as nuanced in details. I've always said it, I liked the 558 everytime I heard it. I didn't care for the 598's tuning as much.


----------



## arandomguy

I'm wondering then if I should have gone with the HD518 (more bass I believe?) for $80. The 598s I'm seeing are $110. Unfortunately HD558s aren't on sale and would be $200+.
  
 Looking at some other options on sale are -
  
 Audio-Technica ATH-M40x for $130 or ATH-M40x for $160. 
 Sennheiser HD 280 PRO for $110
 V-Moda Crossfade M-100 for $150. 
  
 Although at $110 I already feel like I'm into the "splurging" category spending wise at this point in time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never heard the 518, so I can't say whether it's a smart idea.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you can't get an 598, then 558 should be lowest. 558 is quite a good headphone. 
  
 Don't go closed if you don't have you. M100 has quite an early rise in bass boost so can be exciting the first few times but soon get unnecessary. Sure you can EQ but you can't EQ soundstage details of the 558.
  
One hour later:
  
Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition (all black) for 99€
  
  
 http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B0126HISOO?keywords=HD598%20Special%20Edition&qid=1448623417&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


----------



## arj154

Hi
  
 i've looked at some gaming headphones and I like the look of the hd598 for the sound stage and the Beyerdynamics DT990 pro which look like there a bit more bassier so they'd be more fun for single player games but from what I understand, I would need a heavy duty amp to get the most out of them. Is it better to go with the HD598 for me if I've got a Xonar DGX if I'm mainly going to be playing single player games? I do like some bass in my music so the DT990 pro sounds like a better buy but I have no clue what I'd need when it comes to amps. I'll mainly use these for PC gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the Fidelio X2.


----------



## arj154

ah ok, they are double the price of the DT990 pro and triple the price of the hd598 in the uk, are they worth the upgrade? I dont know whether I'd be willing to spend that much at this moment in time. I'd probably have to save for a while.

 EDIT: just read the mini review and they do sound pretty much perfect. I might get them in the future then. I'll stick with my m50x/Roth Audio Charlie for gaming on my PC.


----------



## trogdor796

If it matters, setup is a pair of AKG K7XX's, powered by a Magni 2 and connected to a Xonar DX and Windows 10.
  
 So I have a question regarding Dolby Headphone and my Asus Xonar DX. From my understanding, Dolby Headphone takes a 5.1/7.1 signal and down mixes it to stereo to output to headphones. In that case, I'm assuming I should select the 7.1/5.1 option in games that provide it, over a stereo option?
  
 Along with that, I'm a bit confused about what to set my audio channels as in my Xonar control panel. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the setting in the following picture, with the arrow pointed at it:
  

  
 I've done some googling, and some people say select the 5.1/7.1/surround option in game, turn on Dolby Headphone, and then select 8 channels from the audio channel drop down. But, if Dolby Headphone down mixes a surround signal to stereo for headphone use, wouldn't you want to output it in two channel? Otherwise wouldn't you be down mixing surround to stereo and then up mixing it back up to surround again?


----------



## Sam21

You have got the whole thing wrong, virtual surround =/= true surround, when you choose 7.1 as input, windows tells all applications(in this case, games) that it is accepting 7.1 channels. so all games, provided they output 5.1/7.1(and in-game surround settings set to 5.1/7.1) will output 5.1/7.1 true surround channels to the sound card, the sound card creates virtual surround(which is only 2.0 channels) out of 5.1/7.1 channels and then it outputs it to the headphone jack.


----------



## trogdor796

sam21 said:


> You have got the whole thing wrong, virtual surround =/= true surround, when you choose 7.1 as input, windows tells all applications(in this case, games) that it is accepting 7.1 channels. so all games, provided they output 5.1/7.1(and in-game surround settings set to 5.1/7.1) will output 5.1/7.1 true surround channels to the sound card, the sound card creates virtual surround(which is only 2.0 channels) out of 5.1/7.1 channels and then it outputs it to the headphone jack.


 
 I'm aware that virtual surround and true surround are not the same thing, I just wasn't sure if having that option set to 8 channels was correct as I know when you have windows set to 7.1 it will send out sound to each dedicated channel, like if you had a receiver and speakers hooked up each one would get a tone. I just wasn't sure if that's what I wanted when using Dolby headphone, but the way you put it makes sense, I'll try it out.


----------



## JJKMAN

Hi experienced Audiophiles!
  
 I am a first time poster and have a few questions after reading this awesome headphone guide. Thanks a bunch Mad Lust Envy for taking the time to write the guide as it has been very helpful.
  
 Ok, so I am a console gamer and I want the most competitive gaming headphone for hearing footsteps and such on COD.
  
 Due to the guide I'm choosing between the AD 700 and AKG K701/702. Price isn't much of a concern and I don't care about chat  in the game.
  
 1. Is the K701/702 really that much better than the AD700?
  
 2. Does the Astro Mixamp work well with the AKG or should I get something else? Do I need an amp in addition to the mix amp for the AKG as it's not very loud?
  
 3. Are there Dolby surround sound emulators that are better than the astro mixamp for console as I don't care about the chat equalizer?
  
 4. If not, then what astro mix amp is the best in conjunction with the AKG?
  
  
 Sorry for all of the questions but I'm just clueless as to what I need for hooking up the AKG's up to my PS4 as I don't think I would need an additional amp for the AD700's and I've read that the AD700's work well with the astro mix amp.
  
  
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

trogdor796 said:


> I'm aware that virtual surround and true surround are not the same thing, I just wasn't sure if having that option set to 8 channels was correct as I know when you have windows set to 7.1 it will send out sound to each dedicated channel, like if you had a receiver and speakers hooked up each one would get a tone. I just wasn't sure if that's what I wanted when using Dolby headphone, but the way you put it makes sense, I'll try it out.




You can leave the Asus control panel spec'd for games, and when you need a straight stereo (for stuff like music, on youtube), you can simply toggle the hi-fi button on the right side, which disables processing, then toggle the game button for games. Just make sure Dolby headphone 2 is chosen for games. I forget if that is the default. Leaving the windows sound device to output 8 channels is fine. The software will handle the rest of the conversions.


----------



## Xermalk

As my old trusty pc360 died. I picked up a set of Philips Fidelio X2 for ~194$ yesterday. Seems like a good deal considering we have a 30% VAT one everything here in Sweden.

 Now im wondering if a asus xonar dx is enough to drive them decently. Or if a amp is needed?
 The xonar dx worked just fine for the PC 360.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The DX should at least power them to a good volume, however output impedance is way too high for the X2 and won't sound as clean op as technically detailed. Just because something can go loud doesn't mean it's amped properly/or a good match. The DX has a high output impedance which is not a good match for low impedance headphones like the X2.

The DX has an output impedance of 100ohm :eek:

What you want for the X2 is something like less than 4 ohms. 

That 100ohm impedance is suspect for audio fidelity. In the case of the X2, it may make the bass sloppier than ideal, treble zingy and harsh OR blunted and more muffled than normal, etc. In practice these effects may prove to be very subtle for less than pristine ears.

So yes, I'd advise on something proper with a good output impedance like the X7s, Magni 2, and the like.


----------



## positively4th

positively4th said:


> I'm not new to head-fi but have never really thought about headphones for gaming until today. I browse through the 1st page of this post, the last 10 or so, and a bunch of google searches and reviewing some product pages, and I have to say I'm a little confused about some things and hoping for some advice/guidance.
> 
> Here's what I am looking for:
> - Wireless headphones
> ...


 
 Follow-up to my original post, didn't get any replies but figure I will share what ended up working out for me in case it may benefit others... it seems that virtual surround is considered gimmicky by most, which is a good thing for me as I didn't buy any new headphones. Ended up connecting my PS4 to my JVC SU-AX7 headphone amp via optical out, and using my Denon AH-D2000 headphones. In my opinion it sounds fantastic and I am very pleased. I was originally hoping to go wireless but I don't think it is worth it when what I have sounds great.


----------



## Yethal

positively4th said:


> Follow-up to my original post, didn't get any replies but figure I will share what ended up working out for me in case it may benefit others... it seems that *virtual surround is considered gimmicky by most*, which is a good thing for me as I didn't buy any new headphones. Ended up connecting my PS4 to my JVC SU-AX7 headphone amp via optical out, and using my Denon AH-D2000 headphones. In my opinion it sounds fantastic and I am very pleased. I was originally hoping to go wireless but I don't think it is worth it when what I have sounds great.


 
 Dude, this entire *thread* is dedicated to gaming in virtual surround...


----------



## Xermalk

Ok, guess ill rig up something using my monitor stand. A ooold sony str-lv500 5.1 stereo amp.

 Cant find information about its 3.5mm port, but should be fairly easy to make a adapter cable and rig it up to the left/right audio outputs. Those are 8 ohm.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Dude, this entire *thread* is dedicated to gaming in virtual surround...




Hey, everyone. Headphones are kinda lame. Can you suggest me a good pair of $500 tower speakers with good imaging and a wide soundstage for gaming?

Thanks! 

I'm kidding, by the way!


----------



## Hansotek

shuto77 said:


> yethal said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, this entire *thread* is dedicated to gaming in virtual surround...
> ...




I know you were kidding about the headphones, but in case you were serious about $500ish towers, the Elac F5 is easily the way to go right now. People are freaking out about how good they are. http://elac.us/speakers


----------



## shuto77

hansotek said:


> I know you were kidding about the headphones, but in case you were serious about $500ish towers, the Elac F5 is easily the way to go right now. People are freaking out about how good they are. http://elac.us/speakers




Lol, I was kidding. But once I need towers, those will be my pick. 

I actually need good closed-back cans that are good all-around, but I can't bring myself to buy the NAD Viso hp50.


----------



## Hansotek

shuto77 said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > I know you were kidding about the headphones, but in case you were serious about $500ish towers, the Elac F5 is easily the way to go right now. People are freaking out about how good they are. http://elac.us/speakers
> ...




Well you could hop on that MassDrop TH-X00, but they aren't fully isolating... So if that's a need, it's a no-go. I like the Oppo PM-3 a lot. That's my go-to travel headphone, of late. If you are interested in the NAD Viso HP-50, I have a pair I could sell you for a good deal. PM me if you are interested.


----------



## JJKMAN

How would i hook up an aka k701 to a ps4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The same way you hook up any and every wired headphones to a ps4. With devices like those on the first page. Astro Mixamp, Creative X7, etc.


----------



## RedJohn456

@Mad Lust Envy 
  
 Thanks for creating this thread and the impressions which lead to my new headphone purchase today:
  

  
 Can't wait to try them with some console gaming tomorrow!


----------



## Evshrug

*Hey guys (and gals? Or is that a myth?), good to be back! I've been doing holidays and retail employment the past few days, so I gotta catch up  *





sam21 said:


> E5 only has Bluetooth receiver and not sender. G5 will be the same thing.



Quite probably! One thing I know for sure though, the new Apple TV (the one with the App Store) is able to send audio out through Bluetooth. An E5, X7, or any Bluetooth headphone could then receive it.




adamg666 said:


> Anyone know if the creative aurvana live 2 Mic works on the Dualshock 4?



Yea! Any TRRS headphone (the plug with three black rings) with in-line remote will work straight out of the DS4. Relatively speaking the DS4's audio is pretty low-quality and has a weak amp, BUT it works! Plus, the CAL2 is pretty easy to drive (so the amp will be ok) and is pretty forgiving of harsh sound (the DAC and amp again of the DS4). I've used the V-MODA M-100 and in-line mic a few times with the DS4, I have a CAL2 but haven't used it that way... I just put 2 and 2 together 





shuto77 said:


> Does anyone know if the DAC is the same in the G5 as the X7? Also, does anyone know if we can take the SBX-processed audio signal from the G5 to an external amp?



I don't know enough about the G5 yet to say what DAC it uses. If you don't mind me being a bit cheeky... Yes you'll definitely be able to take the SBX-Processed audio from the G5 to an external amp? At the least by connecting an amp to the headphone output of the G5 

It may sound like I'm joking, but really I've been trying out the Liquid Carbon plugged into my X7's headphone jack, and I like the results. The extra power and blackness really helps the AKG K612... Almost sounds like a Planar with its deep sub-bass extension and clean engaging mids and treble. I say Planar but in fact the LC+ K612's bass extends better than the Oppo PM-3 on the same setup; the PM-3 is a planar AND it's closed! A line-out may be a liiiiiiiiiittle bit better, but even with "double amping" you'll still realize the benefits of the better amp.

In the speaker world, ever heard of a pre-amp and a power amp? Double Amping!!!





sam21 said:


> G5 uses the CS4398 120 SNR , a decent DAC.
> X7 uses the superior PCM1794 with 127 SNR
> 
> I never tested my E5 which is identical to G5 in hardware, but it seems there is a workaround for passing SBX to the line out on the G5 using the "What U Hear" option.



Oh? Do you have a source to tell you which components Creative will use? Maybe you do know, I don't yet.
The X7's DAC indeed is better than the E5, but not in obvious ways... You'd have to have them side-by-side and A/B compare to hear the difference. That said, once you HAVE picked out the difference, it sticks out enough that you'll always notice it on the E5. Still quite good for a sigma delta though.

And yup, Nameless and Yethal detailed a processed-digital-out workaround, but keep it in mind that it requires a nearby computer, and it's somewhat less than spontaneous to setup.




positively4th said:


> Follow-up to my original post, didn't get any replies but figure I will share what ended up working out for me in case it may benefit others... it seems that virtual surround is considered gimmicky by most, which is a good thing for me as I didn't buy any new headphones. Ended up connecting my PS4 to my JVC SU-AX7 headphone amp via optical out, and using my Denon AH-D2000 headphones. In my opinion it sounds fantastic and I am very pleased. I was originally hoping to go wireless but I don't think it is worth it when what I have sounds great.



Only just got back on, sorry but I keep passing out as I type this (writing that last paragraph was really hard cuz I kept forgetting what I was going to say). Sennheiser has a few RF headsets that are some of the best wireless headphones in the business... And their new ones were on Black Friday sale last time I checked Saturday night!

I wouldn't call virtual surround a gimmick... When it's set up right. It is obvious for me to tell when something is in front or behind me, which has obvious combat benefits but also on a fantasy and role-playing aspect I find virtual surround to be more immersive. I don't know if you remember the Myst games, but live 3D surround in a game like that would be so cool!

Those Denon's are supposed to be great! Just FYI, the company Fostex had developed the drivers and most of the design for multiple Denon headphones, and sound great I their own right!




redjohn456 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> 
> Thanks for creating this thread and the impressions which lead to my new headphone purchase today:
> ...




Yaaaaaay! MA900!!!!


----------



## st0neh

So I jumped on some Black Friday deals to make a long needed return to PC gaming and picked up a motherboard with onboard Creative Core3D, does anybody have any idea if it's decent or should I get ready to just pick up a sound card?


----------



## RedJohn456

evshrug said:


> *Hey guys (and gals? Or is that a myth?), good to be back! I've been doing holidays and retail employment the past few days, so I gotta catch up
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I tried the youtube videos in the first post to test the sound. HOLY MOLY! The soundstage and cues were so accurate. Specially the Skyrim video showing the Dolby Headphone effect. I am loving them for music too so thats a bonus.


----------



## Sanctuary

I know this is a thread dedicated primarily to gaming, but whenever I look for a new pair of headphones, it's to get a pair that are good all rounders, instead of being specialized.  Plus, this thread is also about Dolby Headphone.  Having said that, the only headphones I currently want to use for that are my DT880s and Alpha Dogs.  The Alpha Dogs have the superior sound of the two, but I tend to only break them out for new movie watching or critical music listening.  Not so much for gaming.  Usually I just stick with the DT880s, since my sound card can power them without needing to use an external amp, and they weigh a hell of a lot less.

 Anyway...the point of this post was to ask what people that watch movies using Dolby Headphone like to use to demo seperation?  I used to think that the lobby scene in _The Matrix_ was one of the best scenes for both a dedicated speaker setup as well as Dolby Headphone.  But man, every time I watch _The Desolation of Smaug_ scene where Bilbo is infiltrating Smaug's lair, I have a literal eargasm with how spectacular it sounds.  I think it's currently my favorite scene to demo with, and I'm usually pretty focused and on the lookout for new scenes for this purpose when watching movies.  Even though it's just a virtualization and "fake", that scene just has amazing seperation, with lots of various sound effects happening all around.  Plus, when Smaug talks, it's just _phenomenal_ with the Alpha Dogs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sadly, movies tend to skimp out on surround cues, with the exception of some scenes hjere or there. They don't tend to do much but have a miniscule amount of ambient surround effects.

I can't wait for studios to do more for surround speakers, now that audio technologies are getting more and more impressive like Dolby Atmos, etc.


----------



## Yethal

sanctuary said:


> I know this is a thread dedicated primarily to gaming, but whenever I look for a new pair of headphones, it's to get a pair that are good all rounders, instead of being specialized.  Plus, this thread is also about Dolby Headphone.  Having said that, the only headphones I currently want to use for that are my DT880s and Alpha Dogs.  The Alpha Dogs have the superior sound of the two, but I tend to only break them out for new movie watching or critical music listening.  Not so much for gaming.  Usually I just stick with the DT880s, since my sound card can power them without needing to use an external amp, and they weigh a hell of a lot less.
> 
> Anyway...the point of this post was to ask what people that watch movies using Dolby Headphone like to use to demo seperation?  I used to think that the lobby scene in _The Matrix_ was one of the best scenes for both a dedicated speaker setup as well as Dolby Headphone.  But man, every time I watch _The Desolation of Smaug_ scene where Bilbo is infiltrating Smaug's lair, I have a literal eargasm with how spectacular it sounds.  I think it's currently my favorite scene to demo with, and I'm usually pretty focused and on the lookout for new scenes for this purpose when watching movies.  Even though it's just a virtualization and "fake", that scene just has amazing seperation, with lots of various sound effects happening all around.  Plus, when Smaug talks, it's just _phenomenal_ with the Alpha Dogs.


 
 Pearl Harbor had a dedicated Dolby Headphone premixed audio track on the DVD.


----------



## Yethal

In case somebody here is in a dire need of a DAC upgrade, Schiit sells their Modi 2 Uber B-stock for 89$ (as opposed to 149$ regular price)


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> In case somebody here is in a dire need of a DAC upgrade, Schiit sells their Modi 2 Uber B-stock for 89$ (as opposed to 149$ regular price)




That's a dam good deal!! I paid 125 from Amazon warehouse in almost new condition. I don't regret the purchase though


----------



## Blze001

Got a nice deal on a Sound Blaster Xi-Fi HD for $60 during Black Friday, should be a decent enough upgrade over my DSS2... plus I really needed to get off my motherboard mic input, so double win.
  
 Downside is I paid for next-day shipping and it hasn't budged since midday Friday...


----------



## Evshrug

sanctuary said:


> ...
> Anyway...the point of this post was to ask what people that watch movies using Dolby Headphone like to use to demo seperation?
> ... Every time I watch _The Desolation of Smaug_ scene where Bilbo is infiltrating Smaug's lair, I have a literal eargasm with how spectacular it sounds.  I think it's currently my favorite scene to demo with, and I'm usually pretty focused and on the lookout for new scenes for this purpose when watching movies.  Even though it's just a virtualization and "fake", that scene just has amazing seperation, with lots of various sound effects happening all around.  Plus, when Smaug talks, it's just _phenomenal_ with the Alpha Dogs.



I had fun watching the first two Hobbit movies, but the last one was such a self-indulgent cash-grab that seeing it in theaters turned a series I loved into a movie I actively warned people to save their money and stay away from. Don't want to encourage Hollywood to make more of the same... All special effects to stretch out the last 80 pages of a book for three hours. Instead of an "extended" edition, they need a shortended edition without the drawn-out fluff.

Still, despite the second movie ending on a bit of a cliffhanger, I might pick it up some day. Is the extended version worth it?

After hearing and being super impressed with the MrSpeakers Ether, I am more curious about the rest of the MrSpeakers line. Hopefully someday Dan Clark produces a mid-fi priced open planar!




blze001 said:


> Got a nice deal on a Sound Blaster Xi-Fi HD for $60 during Black Friday, should be a decent enough upgrade over my DSS2... plus I really needed to get off my motherboard mic input, so double win.
> 
> Downside is I paid for next-day shipping and it hasn't budged since midday Friday...



Maybe it's business days only? And they don't ship weekends? I don't believe in spending more rush delivery... but to each their own. Are you talking about the little external soundcard? I would've liked to get that ages ago too! Except that it's Windows only.


----------



## JJKMAN

Doesn't this headset require a volume amp in addition to the astro mix amp? I just don't know how to hook that up in conjunction with the astro mix amp and I don't know if it's even necessary.


----------



## rudyae86

blze001 said:


> Got a nice deal on a Sound Blaster Xi-Fi HD for $60 during Black Friday, should be a decent enough upgrade over my DSS2... plus I really needed to get off my motherboard mic input, so double win.
> 
> Downside is I paid for next-day shipping and it hasn't budged since midday Friday...


 
 try contacting them about it, sometimes they could refund you something from the shipping cost (depends where you ordered). There is no guarantee they will refund you but if they do, then that would be great.


----------



## inseconds99

May or may not have sold my summit-fi gaming setup... My th-900's will be shipped out to a fellow head-fier tomorrow and I bought a TH-X00 and am going to order a Fidelio X2 and a new amp/dac to use with the Sound Blaster G5 when it finally releases. I will be selling my Sound Blaster X7 very soon, perfect condition with box and all accessories.
  
 I am done with summit-fi for a while. I'm going to look towards a HD800s in the future, but for now, I am going to stick to midfi headphones that excel in gaming and are fun to listen to.


----------



## Change is Good

I remember MLE once telling me to sell my 1540 and get the TH600 right away. This THX00 is rather tempting...


----------



## Evshrug

The THx00 supposedly balanced the mids more, moedawg's review and just how special my short experience with Fostex headphones was makes me really wish for this headphone, but I can't spare the money right now (and generally prefer open headphones). Maybe I'll cave if they do another drop some day!

I can and will be taking advantage of sales on Dualshock 4 controllers going on now at GameStop, Walmart, and Newegg for $40.


----------



## Fegefeuer

you'll end up in mid-fi purgatory, Change. 4 headphones is 2-3 too many. Better save up for a HD800S deal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Feggy, you sold all your top gear for an HD650 only?


----------



## Change is Good

Trust, I already feel like I have too many headphones, but if I do get the THX00 my intention is to sell all my other full size cans. That'll leave me with just the fostex and my sony h3 iems, which is all I really need. 

I mean, I'm happy with what I already have, but if the THX00 is better than the 1540, and at that price, why the hell not, right? I might end up keeping the K267 as beaters for gaming and on the go, though. I use them more than anything else I have since they arrived. The 1540 and K7XX will be dearly missed, but I just don't have the time, nowadays, for critical listenting to enjoy their different sound signatures. Heck, they've been in the closet inside their respective boxes for a while because they were gathering dust on display, not being used.

One mid-fi, one beater, and one pair of IEMs is my comfort zone. But, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, yet. I'm just intrigued and considering my options, for now. I'll enter summit-fi, one day, but that won't be for a long time.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Feggy, you sold all your top gear for an HD650 only?


 
  
 Yes. I work 6 days a week since almost a year and simply didn't have enough time for two delicate cans so I made a strong cut and sold both for 2,k together, kind of a reset. Upgraded my Home Cinema (a bit) instead. I'll be getting a DAC next year and then I'll check out the market maybe a year later to see what happens. HD800S would be my perfect headphone actually but for now I don't want to pay any sum like that, especially for useless idea of two cables. Hard to bargain with my favorite dealer when he simply can't offer a single cable version. (usually his prices are very friendly).
  
 However the HD 650 is ******* amazing with the X7 Direct Mode+Valhalla 2. I miss soundstage and the HD800's bass for games and movies but other than that the details, dynamics and tonality is spot on. Look at its price. It makes so many headphones simply blush. If the HD800S does have the same/similar treble response then it's the perfect headphone (Grell also said the bass extension is better) for me. 
  
  
  
  
  
 Quote:


change is good said:


> Trust, I already feel like I have too many headphones, but if I do get the THX00 my intention is to sell all my other full size cans. That'll leave me with just the fostex and my sony h3 iems, which is all I really need.
> 
> I mean, I'm happy with what I already have, but if the THX00 is better than the 1540, and at that price, why the hell not, right? I might end up keeping the K267 as beaters for gaming and on the go, though. I use them more than anything else I have since they arrived. The 1540 and K7XX will be dearly missed, but I just don't have the time, nowadays, for critical listenting to enjoy their different sound signatures. Heck, they've been in the closet inside their respective boxes for a while because they were gathering dust on display, not being used.
> 
> One mid-fi, one beater, and one pair of IEMs is my comfort zone. But, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, yet. I'm just intrigued and considering my options, for now. I'll enter summit-fi, one day, but that won't be for a long time.


 
  
 Then definitely go for it. From the measurements alone it's better than your Shure and K267. Knowing the Fostex Bass, cleanness and low distortion + soundstage you can indeed replace ALL your headphones and stick with H3+ThX00


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks, Feg, you just made me jump. I'm going for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The one thing though, is that it seems the X00 has less bass than the 600/900. Not sure I'd like that. What the 600/900 needed was less treble and 5/6khz peak, not less bass.


----------



## Change is Good

May not be too far off from the 1540, then, but more refined? A review says they can still satisfy bassheads, and I'm just borderline (as said many times, before), so I should be good. 

Either way, I'll be comparing the two (side by side) before making any final decisions. The 1540 (with alpha pads) has been my top for two years, now, so this should be interesting. I also have an extra pair of alpha pads to try on the THX00 to hopefully bring it back toward its brethren form. I read its stock pads are much the reason for its different tuning than the 600/900, since they are less roomy and more fluffy.

I will also have to look into some recabling and a detachable mod once I know for sure they will be keepers. That stock cable is waaaay to long for my needs.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> The one thing though, is that it seems the X00 has less bass than the 600/900. Not sure I'd like that. What the 600/900 needed was less treble and 5/6khz peak, not less bass.



I was concerned about the bass too, but I'm a little less worried now. Here's my thinking on it: I read about the estimated changes to those frequency areas and looked for a similar graph comparison. It aligned almost perfectly with the D7000. Now who knows if it will be better, worse or equal (and how accurate those estimates were), but I'm a lot more optimistic now.


----------



## Change is Good

hansotek said:


> I was concerned about the bass too, but I'm a little less worried now. Here's my thinking on it: I read about the estimated changes to those frequency areas and looked for a similar graph comparison. It aligned almost perfectly with the D7000. Now who knows if it will be better, worse or equal (and how accurate those estimates were), but I'm a lot more optimistic now.




I am also hopeful. Trust when I say I loves muh' bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hansotek said:


> I was concerned about the bass too, but I'm a little less worried now. Here's my thinking on it: I read about the estimated changes to those frequency areas and looked for a similar graph comparison. It aligned almost perfectly with the D7000. Now who knows if it will be better, worse or equal (and how accurate those estimates were), but I'm a lot more optimistic now.




Problem there being that the D7000 graphs aren't indicative of it's bass. The graphs would lead you to believe the D7000 has less bass than the TH900 and TH600. Definitely far from the truth. At it's best, the TH900 sort of sounds like the D7000 in terms of bass potency. Normally, it's considerably less bassy to my ears due to just how controlled it is. The decay is too fast, so it ends up sounding more polite in general. Never mind the TH600 which is even less.

I'm not saying the X00 won't be bassy. It's a Fostex. There is always an expectation from the way it presents it's bass. I'm just saying that it's probably gonna knock it back even more than the other models, which to me is a negative/. Yes, more mids is a good thing, but for these headphones, the bass is their best aspect, so even less of it doesn't appeal to me. Me, personally, I'd like a level of bass between the TH900 and D7000, as the TH900 is too controlled, and the D7000 can be a bit sluggish. In between would be perfect.

Again, personal taste. I'm sure the X00 is gonna be one hell of a winner overall. Just... wishing they went back towards the D7000 side of things.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Vader2k

evshrug said:


> I can and will be taking advantage of sales on Dualshock 4 controllers going on now at GameStop, Walmart, and Newegg for $40.


 
  
 FWIW, Amazon has them for $39.  Save a $1 and no tax with free shipping! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
http://www.amazon.com/DualShock-Wireless-Controller-PlayStation-Black-4/dp/B00BGA9X9W/


----------



## Change is Good

Feggy, you are a genius for the idea. I have decided to sell off anything that isn't and won't be getting much use, no matter how attached I am. That basically means almost _everything_ (1540, K7XX, K267, C5). It's nice having different options but, when it just sits there being unused, there is no reason for me to keep them around. I will feel a sense of relief knowing someone else is enjoying them, rather than collecting dust in my possession. I'll probably even be selling a PS4 I recently had replaced by Sony (still with one year left on warranty), along with a couple games.
  
 I will definitely be content with just the TH-X00 and H3 until I start saving for summit-fi in the distant future. I'd have been happy with just the 1540 and such, but I was always stuck on wanting variety, not realizing I don't have enough heads and ears for all of that.


----------



## lorsceo

Hello, I don't know much about headphones, but I use to use sennheiser 350s with an astro mixamp to play on the xbox 360. My 350s broke a while ago and i wasn't really playing much, but I just got a pair of game zeros and i'm trying to figure out how to get the microphone to work on xbox one. I updated the controller and i have the stereo headset adapter.I have my game zeros plugged in to a y splitter into the headset port on my mixamp. I tried plugging a cord into the stereo headset adapter and plug the other end into the controller port on my mixamp but it doesn't work. Can someone tell me what cords I need and where to plug them to get the microphone working on xbox one? (I also realize these headphones should be used with an amp and ill probably get one in the future).


----------



## st0neh

evshrug said:


> I had fun watching the first two Hobbit movies, but the last one was such a self-indulgent cash-grab that seeing it in theaters turned a series I loved into a movie I actively warned people to save their money and stay away from. Don't want to encourage Hollywood to make more of the same... All special effects to stretch out the last 80 pages of a book for three hours. Instead of an "extended" edition, they need a shortended edition without the drawn-out fluff.
> 
> Still, despite the second movie ending on a bit of a cliffhanger, I might pick it up some day. Is the extended version worth it?


 
  
 I was originally quite negative about the Hobbit movies, then I read about what Peter Jackson had to go through to actually get them shot and released. It's honestly a miracle they're as good as they are, he deserves a medal.


----------



## shuto77

So I got the ok from the wife to get the Fostex THX00, but I couldn't pull the trigger, mostly due to ergonomic concerns. I just hope I don't regret this.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

shuto77 said:


> So I got the ok from the wife to get the Fostex THX00, but I couldn't pull the trigger, mostly due to ergonomic concerns. I just hope I don't regret this.


 

 Patience is a virtue. I'm doing the exact same thing and waiting. Massdrop didn't go through all this work to tune these with Fostex and sell out of first drop stock to not drop this again. I'm excited to hear people's impressions on these.


----------



## executioner

bavinck said:


> I use the mixamp with ps4, with the magni 1 and k7xx. My ears noticed a volume increase and bass increase in quantity and quality with the magni. YMMV I guess.


 
  
 I have an AKG Q701 and planning to get an amp to go with a mixamp for console gaming.  Budget is $150 between a magni, vali or o2 which would go better.  It would be my first amp and mostly used for gaming.


----------



## shuto77

hi-fi edu said:


> Patience is a virtue. I'm doing the exact same thing and waiting. Massdrop didn't go through all this work to tune these with Fostex and sell out of first drop stock to not drop this again. I'm excited to hear people's impressions on these.




Yes, as am I. I'm fairly certain it will be a very nice headphone. 

I'm curious how it compares to the Alpha Dogs, both for gaming and music. 

I'm trying to find a good closed headphone and I'm driving myself crazy, lol.


----------



## burritoboy9984

lorsceo said:


> Hello, I don't know much about headphones, but I use to use sennheiser 350s with an astro mixamp to play on the xbox 360. My 350s broke a while ago and i wasn't really playing much, but I just got a pair of game zeros and i'm trying to figure out how to get the microphone to work on xbox one. I updated the controller and i have the stereo headset adapter.I have my game zeros plugged in to a y splitter into the headset port on my mixamp. I tried plugging a cord into the stereo headset adapter and plug the other end into the controller port on my mixamp but it doesn't work. Can someone tell me what cords I need and where to plug them to get the microphone working on xbox one? (I also realize these headphones should be used with an amp and ill probably get one in the future).




Sounds like you mostly have it right, make sure you have a headset splitter not a y splitter. Should have a mic logo and a headphone logo or green and pink. Everything else you said is correct and it should be working. Headphones into headset splitter into mixamp and 2.5 cable from controller port of mix amp into 2.5 to 3.5 Xbox controller headset adapter cable.


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> Feggy, you are a genius for the idea. I have decided to sell off anything that isn't and won't be getting much use, no matter how attached I am. That basically means almost _everything_ (1540, K7XX, K267, C5). It's nice having different options but, when it just sits there being unused, there is no reason for me to keep them around. I will feel a sense of relief knowing someone else is enjoying them, rather than collecting dust in my possession. I'll probably even be selling a PS4 I recently had replaced by Sony (still with one year left on warranty), along with a couple games.
> 
> I will definitely be content with just the TH-X00 and H3 until I start saving for summit-fi in the distant future. I'd have been happy with just the 1540 and such, but I was always stuck on wanting variety, not realizing I don't have enough heads and ears for all of that.


 
  
 Yes, it's important to let go of stuff you actually don't really use or can't use properly because time isn't infinity. With "mid-fi purgatory" I don't mean to look down at mid-fi (look at my sig) but the hoarding/collecting of mid-fi which naturally is easy to do due to affordability and frequent deals. I see a lot of it in head-fi and I truly understand the temptation (comes to me as well) but it's really a useless thing to do. A closed for this, an open one for movies, a closed for mobile, a signature for this and that. 
  
 Better stick and understand one great headphone for all, a mobile one/iem in addition max. Massdrop surely is a great place for deals but people gotta control themselves and not hoard 4-5 mid fi headphones for a price higher than a HD 800 and 2 desktop rigs in addition with mobile amps etc.... 
  
 Build one fine desktop rig for all. Something like Bifrost Multibit + Liquid Carbon/Valhalla 2/Lyr 2 etc... be happy for years.
  
 The guy that bought the HD 800 from me had his one and solely headphone, the HD 650, for 12 years straight.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got the PX95 yesterday. I expected them to sound identical to the PMX95 save for slight clamp/fit differences, but the PX95 is a bit too warm/boomy in comparison. Soundstage is definitely more restricted as a result. I would certainly choose the KSC35/Sportapro instead and the Parts express headband if I wanted this style of headphone.

The PX95 is too warm and too mid bassy than I prefer, while the PMX95 stayed true to the Sennheiser sound with a warm+balanced+slight bass tilt which sounds cleaner and more audiophile friendly.

It's not bad, but definitely don't have a place for it now.


----------



## lorsceo

burritoboy9984 said:


> Sounds like you mostly have it right, make sure you have a headset splitter not a y splitter. Should have a mic logo and a headphone logo or green and pink. Everything else you said is correct and it should be working. Headphones into headset splitter into mixamp and 2.5 cable from controller port of mix amp into 2.5 to 3.5 Xbox controller headset adapter cable.


 
 Hey would you mind showing me a picture of how your controller is wired to the mixamp to allow voice chat. The cord that comes with the stereo adapter plugs into the adapter and the other end has a slot for you to plug another cord in, but im not using that cord. Im using a cord that fits into the controller port of the mixamp on one end and plugs directly into the headset adapter on the controller. Could it be that I need to use the cord that came with the headset adapter and find a cord that can fit into that cord and connect to my controller slot on my mixamp also? like a 2.5 to 2.5? I have pictures but im a new user so I can't post yet.


----------



## burritoboy9984

lorsceo said:


> Hey would you mind showing me a picture of how your controller is wired to the mixamp to allow voice chat. The cord that comes with the stereo adapter plugs into the adapter and the other end has a slot for you to plug another cord in, but im not using that cord. Im using a cord that fits into the controller port of the mixamp on one end and plugs directly into the headset adapter on the controller. Could it be that I need to use the cord that came with the headset adapter and find a cord that can fit into that cord and connect to my controller slot on my mixamp also? like a 2.5 to 2.5? I have pictures but im a new user so I can't post yet.




Yes, that could be it. I'm not going to be home today so I can't take pictures, but assuming you have the correct headset splitter, my guess is the cable is the issue.


----------



## Vader2k

mad lust envy said:


> Got the PX95 yesterday. I expected them to sound identical to the PMX95 save for slight clamp/fit differences, but the PX95 is a bit too warm/boomy in comparison. Soundstage is definitely more restricted as a result. I would certainly choose the KSC35/Sportapro instead and the Parts express headband if I wanted this style of headphone.
> 
> The PX95 is too warm and too mid bassy than I prefer, while the PMX95 stayed true to the Sennheiser sound with a warm+balanced+slight bass tilt which sounds cleaner and more audiophile friendly.
> 
> It's not bad, but definitely don't have a place for it now.


 
  
 I'm kinda bummed to hear that. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  After reading you reactions to the PMX95, I decided to grab it and the PX95 since my PortaPro stopped working and I wasn't sure if I wanted to pay for the warranty repair before looking into something else.  The plan was to use the PMX95 for working out and the PX95 for casual listening.
  
 I haven't received them yet, though and still plan to give them both a listen.


----------



## PacoTaco

shuto77 said:


> Yes, as am I. I'm fairly certain it will be a very nice headphone.
> 
> I'm curious how it compares to the Alpha Dogs, both for gaming and music.
> 
> I'm trying to find a good closed headphone and I'm driving myself crazy, lol.


 
  
 Depends on what you want out of the headphone. The THX00, much like the TH900, is really a semi-open headphone with horrible leakage and isolation. The Alpha Dog will one-up it in that field.
  
 On another website, I was reading impressions and someone was mentioning that the THX00 was better, or on par, with the ZMF Omni and TH900, which speaks pretty well for how it will turn out. Considering how much better I find the Omni over the Alpha Dog and Prime, I'm quite interested in how this turns out.
  
 Speaking of ergonomics, let me know if those pads don't fit you too well. I got some extra lambskin pads Zach gave me when he sent me the Omni. I can send them to you if you need them.
  
  
 On a sad note, I'm considering selling my Omnis for something different. Maybe the HD650 and the THX00 (which I'd use the THX00 for gaming.) I might even do a trade for the TH900, but it all depends honestly.


----------



## Change is Good

What games are you guys playing, at the moment?


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> What games are you guys playing, at the moment?




I've really been enjoying fallout 4 on ps4.


----------



## AxelCloris

Fallout 4 (PC), Destiny (PS4), and Soul Hunters (iOS).


----------



## Vader2k

change is good said:


> What games are you guys playing, at the moment?




SW Battlefront (crazy good sound cues, imo), GTA V-Online, and Rocket League (so addicting!) - PS4

Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy - 3DS


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vader2k said:


> I'm kinda bummed to hear that.    After reading you reactions to the PMX95, I decided to grab it and the PX95 since my PortaPro stopped working and I wasn't sure if I wanted to pay for the warranty repair before looking into something else.  The plan was to use the PMX95 for working out and the PX95 for casual listening.
> 
> I haven't received them yet, though and still plan to give them both a listen.




It's not bad, just, you'll wanna use the PMX95 over the PX95 because it's simply better. The PX95 isn't bad at all. Just, it's more basshead level than the Portapro and PMX95. It may actually be more enjoyable for bassheads. However, I feel the others do bass just fine.




change is good said:


> What games are you guys playing, at the moment?




Been playing Tales of Zestiria on PS4. I've been hurting for a good JRPG for ages (the days of good JRPGs are basically over). ToZ is ok. A far cry from the good Tales games, like Vesperia, Graces F, Eternia, but it's doable. I'd give it a 7. Of course, it has a Surround setting that is glitched and mutes voices and has constant pops with the X7. I have to set it to stereo for it to sound fine. :rolleyes:

Also bought Azure Striker Gunvolt for PC, though I haven't really touched it yet. I'm more focused on shows atm.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> I've really been enjoying fallout 4 on ps4.


 
  


axelcloris said:


> Fallout 4 (PC), Destiny (PS4), and Soul Hunters (iOS).


 
  
 Man, Fallout 4 is addicting. How much time have you guys spent building your communities? I was bs'ing around, one night, and wasted 3 hours just settling people in at the Sanctuary and movie theater. Every time I planted enough food and water, someone else would show up needing a bed and more food. Finally, I said screw it and built a halfway house full of beds along with a garden at each establishment.
  
 Then, it was one thing after another. "Oh, let me fix these fences. Oh, I need more defense. Oh, what the heck let me build myself a house fortress." 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  


vader2k said:


> *SW Battlefront* (crazy good sound cues, imo), GTA V-Online, and Rocket League (so addicting!) - PS4
> 
> Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy - 3DS


 
  
 Yeah, I've been mostly playing this since release trophy hunting, and such. Those damn survival and battle missions on 'Master' difficulty are a pain in the ass, I tell ya'!
  
 I have to get back to Fallout 4, however, because my people need me in the wasteland.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Been playing *Tales of Zestiria* on PS4. I've been hurting for a good JRPG for ages (the days of good JRPGs are basically over). ToZ is ok. A far cry from the good Tales games, like Vesperia, Graces F, Eternia, but it's doable. I'd give it a 7. Of course, it has a Surround setting that is glitched and mutes voices and has constant pops with the X7. I have to set it to stereo for it to sound fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 My friend picked that game up, a few weeks back. He's big on JRPGs, just like yourself and many others. Omega Quintet and Akiba's Trip are two others I saw him playing, a lot, when they released. Sword Art Online, too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I bought Sword Art Online as well... and both the PS4 games left me with utter dissappointment. In short: they suck, further establishing that JRPGs suck nowadays.

I'm eagerly anticipating Star Ocean 5's arrival though. I love those games.


----------



## Vader2k

mad lust envy said:


> *It's not bad, just, you'll wanna use the PMX95 over the PX95 because it's simply better. The PX95 isn't bad at all. Just, it's more basshead level than the Portapro and PMX95. It may actually be more enjoyable for bassheads. However, I feel the others do bass just fine.*





> Been playing Tales of Zestiria on PS4. I've been hurting for a good JRPG for ages (the days of good JRPGs are basically over). ToZ is ok. A far cry from the good Tales games, like Vesperia, Graces F, Eternia, but it's doable. I'd give it a 7. Of course, it has a Surround setting that is glitched and mutes voices and has constant pops with the X7. I have to set it to stereo for it to sound fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yeah, I'll prob just swap those around and make the PMX95 my primary for casual listening.  I've never really used neckband style before, so it'll be interesting to try out.  But who knows, maybe I won't like the PX95 and just return it and repair the PortaPro.
  


change is good said:


> Man, Fallout 4 is addicting. How much time have you guys spent building your communities? I was bs'ing around, one night, and wasted 3 hours just settling people in at the Sanctuary and movie theater. Every time I planted enough food and water, someone else would show up needing a bed and more food. Finally, I said screw it and built a halfway house full of beds along with a garden at each establishment.
> 
> Then, it was one thing after another. "Oh, let me fix these fences. Oh, I need more defense. Oh, what the heck let me build myself a house fortress."
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, you're playing on 'Master'?  That's cool; I'd get slaughtered if I tried going that difficult.  Standard difficulty for me. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  I can hold my own pretty well in Fighter Squadron, though.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Man, Fallout 4 is addicting. How much time have you guys spent building your communities? I was bs'ing around, one night, and wasted 3 hours just settling people in at the Sanctuary and movie theater. Every time I planted enough food and water, someone else would show up needing a bed and more food. Finally, I said screw it and built a halfway house full of beds along with a garden at each establishment.
> 
> Then, it was one thing after another. "Oh, let me fix these fences. Oh, I need more defense. Oh, what the heck let me build myself a house fortress."


 
  
 Honestly I've spent very little time working on my communities. I've been leveling up and working towards Local Leader 2 before investing much time into settlements. Once I have that then I'll begin working on my location of choice. I've been spending my time getting my companion perks and exploring/side-questing. I've unlocked MacCready and Piper's already and I'm working on Deacon now.


----------



## Blze001

axelcloris said:


> Honestly I've spent very little time working on my communities. I've been leveling up and working towards Local Leader 2 before investing much time into settlements. Once I have that then I'll begin working on my location of choice. I've been spending my time getting my companion perks and exploring/side-questing. I've unlocked MacCready and Piper's already and I'm working on Deacon now.


 
  
 Evidently you can romance more than one companion at a time... my character may or may not have a harem at this point...


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> What games are you guys playing, at the moment?



Still playing Destiny: TTK, Rocket League (also addicting!), BLOPS 3. Also been listening to more music lately.

Ironically I was excited about the DS4 sales because my sprint was getting picky about working (or not), so I traded it in hoping to pick up a new controller... and by the time it was traded in, everyone's controller sales were over or they were out of stock. I did get one ordered but right now I don't have a controller at all, lol! Maybe I'll pick up a spare next time the DS4 goes on sale.


I really liked the modestly modded HD800 I got to spend some good mostly private time on at RMAF, and the other stock HD800 I heard at the one local hi-fi headphone (and vinyl) store in Pgh. I didn't find it bass weak or too trebly, and actually couldn't sleep my first night at RMAF because I kept thinking about how good it sounded!

However, I prefer the Mr. Speakers Ether. When A/B'ing the HD800 and Ether, the HD800 seemed like it had too much air and not as much transparency as the Ether. At the end of the day, I would certainly be happy with and often use any TOTL headphone (except maybe an Audeze because of weight), but I learned just how much personal preference is the key to what feels like "The Best" headphone. To the point where price is no guarantee of satisfaction, just the cost of admission which eventually you'll put behind you.

I heard an HD650 and HD600 on Sennheiser's top of the line HDVD-800 DAC/amp... testing side by side, I prefer my humble K612 to either on that store setup or my home gear (Liquid Carbon + Theta or X7). It's just personal preference.


----------



## PacoTaco

evshrug said:


> Still playing Destiny: TTK, Rocket League (also addicting!), BLOPS 3. Also been listening to more music lately.
> 
> Ironically I was excited about the DS4 sales because my sprint was getting picky about working (or not), so I traded it in hoping to pick up a new controller... and by the time it was traded in, everyone's controller sales were over or they were out of stock. I did get one ordered but right now I don't have a controller at all, lol! Maybe I'll pick up a spare next time the DS4 goes on sale.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I really, really, really, really, really want to try the Ether. My only issue (besides the cash for it) is the fact that, to be completely honest, the only MrSpeaker's product I've ever actually enjoyed was the Mad Dog. I found the Alpha Dog too boring and the Alpha Prime too much like a slightly improved Mad Dog (with the downsides of the Mad Dog elevated to annoying levels.) My ZMF Omni has been keeping upgraditis at pay for now, but I may have to pick that up at some point in time.
  
 Anyway, I've been enjoying Fallout 4, BLOPS III occasionally, and Pokemon Super Mystery Dungeon. I'm trying to get back into the Witcher 3, Wasteland 2, and Divinity Original Sin, as I never finished any of those (and it's a damn shame I haven't.)


----------



## Diamondpact

I finally got my k7xx, it took forever for them to arrive. Good news the vats/customs weren't as bad as i thought. only 25 bucks cad.
  
 Coming from my astro a50/superlux 681 evo, the soundstage doesn't feel big compared to them. Feels similar, little better (possibly placebo). The sound floor definitely is barely noticeable now tho which is a plus, but the bass seems to be not as much as i expected i think the superlux 681 evo and my astro a50 have more bass. Could my schiit 2 uber stack be lacking? 
  
 Even worse, I now have the sudden urge to get the hd 800, whats happening!!
  
 Do you guys think I should eq my k7xx? Would doing that improve quality/sound stage?
  
 Also, if I want competitive soundstage, will my logitech z906 5.1 speakers provide better soundstage/positional cues (properly positioned/set up) or would hd800/k7xx have better imaging?
  
 Thanks in advanced.


----------



## Diamondpact

Also, theres so much to do in fallout 4, i love it. But it has alot of things that are annoying too..terrible graphics. Its doing my 980 ti no justice.. 60 fps to make it even worse. To make it even worse, I unlocked fps. It may sound good, but when i play at 144 fps, everything is moving more than 2x the speed, and i get whooped in master difficulty had to rely on melee and explosives to hit lol. impossible to sniper ppl. Apparently the game speed is tied to fps, WHY!! so with unlocked fps, the lock picking is at 6000+ fps, i break so many picks, its not even funny. 
  
 Theres too much watering down for consoles to look better compared to pc .
  
 I unlock fps and game load screens are instance, 60 fps lock and im waiting like the consoles .
  
 Overall, I still love the game, but damn. Definitely not a complete game for pc, unless you want to play it watered down like console with 60 fps lock and low textures(which mods can fix, but is a hassle lol) .
  
 Anyone else experienced those issues too when unlocking fps n so on?
  
 Theres is a possible fix but I couldn't find the command line. Basically i want to somehow lock the fps to 120, I might need to modify ini again for that instead of unlocked fps. I don't know how to lock it to 120 :*(. Once the fps is locked to 120, I then want to use command line to slow game speed down to .5 the speed to make things normal. Theoretically, that should work. Unfortunately, I don't know the 120 fps lock lines for the fallout 4 ini, and couldn't find the console command for game speed multiplier. 
  
 If anyone can input, thats be sick


----------



## Sonikku13

How do the Sennheiser HD800 headphones do for gaming? It's one of the headphones I am considering to upgrade from my Audio-Technica AD900X headphones.
  
 That is, should I decide to delay my PC upgrade one year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having not heard the HD800, but knowing and trusting plenty who have, I'm pretty sure the HD800 is gonna be legend tier for gaming, particularly if you love a detailed, airy soundstage type of sound signature (think Q701 but on steroids, as I have been told it's like). Personally, I wouldn't spend all that much for that type of sound signature (that sort of money is something I'd spend on something more visceral and meaty, like Audeze type tonality), since personally, all I would use the HD800 for is competitive gaming and maybe some non-action TV shows/videos.

I do wanna try one eventually. It's on my list of things to experience.


----------



## Sam21

the HD800 has like the lowest THD among other headphones....This helps instrument placement[AKA Definition] alot when paired with an also low THD DAC.


----------



## Sonikku13

mad lust envy said:


> Having not heard the HD800, but knowing and trusting plenty who have, I'm pretty sure the HD800 is gonna be legend tier for gaming, particularly if you love a detailed, airy soundstage type of sound signature (think Q701 but on steroids, as I have been told it's like). Personally, I wouldn't spend all that much for that type of sound signature (that sort of money is something I'd spend on something more visceral and meaty, like Audeze type tonality), since personally, all I would use the HD800 for is competitive gaming and maybe some non-action TV shows/videos.
> 
> I do wanna try one eventually. It's on my list of things to experience.


 
 I really would love to delay my PC upgrade to do this, as I _love_ my Audio-Technica AD900X sound signature, but my A10-7850K iGPU won't cut it anymore for gaming, I really have to go with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan "Pascal" card.
  
 Though, when I do get the money, you just pushed me over the edge. Q701 on steroids sounds great to me, I bet.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, the 1540 shipped out today. For two years of my short audiophile-_ish_ life, it was my absolute favorite headphone and I am going to miss it, dearly. I am bold to have sold it before even trying the TH-X00, but it simply had to go for me to move on. Now, I am debating on whether to sell my low serial numbered K7XX or not. I don't know if I can deal with losing two loved ones in the same week... not to mention the C5 is also gone, now...


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> Well, the 1540 shipped out today. For two years of my short audiophile-_ish_ life, it was my absolute favorite headphone and I am going to miss it, dearly. I am bold to have sold it before even trying the TH-X00, but it simply had to go for me to move on. Now, I am debating on whether to sell my low serial numbered K7XX or not. I don't know if I can deal with losing two loved ones in the same week... not to mention the C5 is also gone, now...




Haha, if I had the money, I'd probably buy it off you. I miss the K712.


From what I understand, the HD800 has a godly, almost overwhelming, soundstage. However, the T1 has slightly better detail retreviel and said to be the best gaming headphone overall (since the bass is good too.) From my experience, the T1 has amazing detail retrieval but its soundstage is smaller than the HD800.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> Well, the 1540 shipped out today. For two years of my short audiophile-_ish_ life, it was my absolute favorite headphone and I am going to miss it, dearly. I am bold to have sold it before even trying the TH-X00, but it simply had to go for me to move on. Now, I am debating on whether to sell my low serial numbered K7XX or not. I don't know if I can deal with losing two loved ones in the same week... not to mention the C5 is also gone, now...




Hey, buddy, I hear you. I just sold my K7XX (didn't love it for the music I listen to), my Dunu DN1000 (fit issues) abd, my Fiio X3ii (which I replaced with an Oppo HA-2 for an extra $30, so that worked out. 

I'm realizing it's important to try out the good mid-fi gear to develop a frame of reference, but it's sometimes hard to see the gear go. 

I figured I could always get the K7XX new or like-new, if I ultimately decide the Fidelio X2 is too bassy. 

Your move on the TH-X00 is a good one - even if you don't love it, I'm sure you can flip it for a minimal loss. 

I personally couldn't cross that $400 threshold for something I wasn't 100% sure was the best fit for me for at least 6-12 months. 

Please let us know what you think of them, as I know several of us would be interested in doing a deal if they didn't work out for you. 

I'm super curious how they fare against other high-end closed cans, including the Shures. 

/rant over


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Having not heard the HD800, but knowing and trusting plenty who have, I'm pretty sure the HD800 is gonna be legend tier for gaming, particularly if you love a detailed, airy soundstage type of sound signature (think Q701 but on steroids, as I have been told it's like). Personally, I wouldn't spend all that much for that type of sound signature (that sort of money is something I'd spend on something more visceral and meaty, like Audeze type tonality), since personally, all I would use the HD800 for is competitive gaming and maybe some non-action TV shows/videos.
> 
> I do wanna try one eventually. It's on my list of things to experience.



Mad, I don't think the HD800 would be your long-term favourite headphone... but it might surprise you. I was expecting it to be colder and more piercing, like an AD700 on steroids, but the big drivers actually had a modestly nice bass that didn't feel light to me, nice extension, some more of that Sennheiser mids Magic (engaging but not as "thick" because there wasn't any lower-mids bloat like the HD700), and sparkly treble which had a broad enough peak to not sound like spikey-death. The one I heard was modestly modded like I said though, so was probably tuned close to the HD800S model. I would have to listen to a stock HD800 (or S model) on my setup to make a formal review. Earcups are HUGE. HUGE MAN! I don't know if you've ever tried the "microfibre" pads on the HD700/800, but they're different from anything else on the market... Not itchy, but I couldn't get used to them, but yeah they score well for not being itchy or feel like they get hot fast.

Q701 on steroids? Eh kinda yeah. I was a bit disappointed that they were a little heavier. Can't compare the sound too much by now because it's been awhile.




sam21 said:


> the HD800 has like the lowest THD among other headphones....This helps instrument placement[AKA Definition] a lot when paired with an also low THD DAC.



Imaging? Yeah it had pretty good imaging. THD was also very low... for a dynamic driver.


----------



## Evshrug

Paco Taco,
I'll finally get to hear a ZMF Vibro soon! Looking forward to that 

The T1 I heard was hot... not just bright, but hot. Didn't actually seem to out resolve the HD800 or the Jerry Harvey CIEMs I heard just before it, just make the treble louder relative to the rest of the mix. The A&K T1 was a bit better, but I'd honestly recommend the second generation T1 for the general public. It sure is a gorgeous headphone. Not saying it has better technicalities, but I enjoyed the T51i the most out of all Beyerdynamic headphones I've heard so far (Mercer will back me up on that!)


----------



## Diamondpact

sonikku13 said:


> I really would love to delay my PC upgrade to do this, as I _love_ my Audio-Technica AD900X sound signature, but my A10-7850K iGPU won't cut it anymore for gaming, I really have to go with a NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan "Pascal" card.
> 
> Though, when I do get the money, you just pushed me over the edge. Q701 on steroids sounds great to me, I bet.


 

 ikr haha. I was expecting it to be similiar tier to q701 for competitive gaming, but q701 on roids for competitive gaming is just...I want it! But I also want the skylake E build/pascal gpu :*(


----------



## Diamondpact

i promised myself that ill stop at the akg k7xx headphones, after getting them im already looking at hd80 and above, this new hobby of mine is going to hurt my wallet continuously hahaha :*D.
  
 Is there any headphone more god tier than the hd 800 for competitive gaming while remaining "fun"?


----------



## PacoTaco

diamondpact said:


> i promised myself that ill stop at the akg k7xx headphones, after getting them im already looking at hd80 and above, this new hobby of mine is going to hurt my wallet continuously hahaha :*D.
> 
> Is there any headphone more god tier than the hd 800 for competitive gaming while remaining "fun"?




The second generation T1 is up there, but I've been told the Ether is pretty awesome. The Th900 is the top of the fun crop for most people.




evshrug said:


> Paco Taco,
> I'll finally get to hear a ZMF Vibro soon! Looking forward to that
> 
> The T1 I heard was hot... not just bright, but hot. Didn't actually seem to out resolve the HD800 or the Jerry Harvey CIEMs I heard just before it, just make the treble louder relative to the rest of the mix. The A&K T1 was a bit better, but I'd honestly recommend the second generation T1 for the general public. It sure is a gorgeous headphone. Not saying it has better technicalities, but I enjoyed the T51i the most out of all Beyerdynamic headphones I've heard so far (Mercer will back me up on that!)




Out of the long list of Beyer's I've heard, the DT770 and T1 were the only ones I've enjoyed. The brightness usually got to me. Especially with that godawful T70P.

The Vibro reminds me a lot of a closed HE500 with two ports closed, and a ******* fun bass head planar with all of them open. Great with rock music and fun game, but there is a bit of detail missing for the finer details in games. Doesn't matter much with stuff like RPGs or adventure games, but anything competitive was rough. The Blackwood was awesome with just about everything, but it was a tad unexciting with games unless you got huge explosions ( due to the subbass emphasis.)

I'd encourage you to try the Omni. It sounds a lot like a more refined and airier prefazzor LCD 2.2. Though, I'd get the Blackwood Omni for more well roundedness or the Cherry for the fun decay in the bass. The walnut is too much of a compromise between both. I'm going to be trying out the Brazillian Rosewood Omnis, which should be fun.


----------



## conquerator2

I bet the HEX is worthy of recommendation.
The HEK is amazing!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For you guys hyped for Batman vs Superman, I urge you not to watch the newest full trailer, as it basically spoils the whole ****ing movie. Seriously, whomever produced that trailer needs to be fired. Don't discuss it here, just wanted to give you a word of warning.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> For you guys hyped for Batman vs Superman, I urge you not to watch the newest full trailer, as it basically spoils the whole ****ing movie. Seriously, whomever produced that trailer needs to be fired. Don't discuss it here, just wanted to give you a word of warning.


 
  
 Batman fights Superman.
  
 Hashtag spoiled.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, I wish it was actually that.


----------



## arandomguy

I'm wishing I maybe picked up HD518s (which appears to possibly be discontinued?) instead of the HD598s judging by the impressions I've been researching on it.
  
 Looking at the reviews it seems like if I want an upgrade to the KSC75 that is over-ear and focused on fun improvements (without tradeoffs in other areas) for around $100 or less the only option is the Creative Aurvana Live which doesn't seem to be carried here in Canada (would need to import from the US, tricky returns, warranty. Also seem to be discontinued?) and may not be good for big heads (have both a big head and wear glass, related to the return issue).
  
 Any similar alternatives?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> For you guys hyped for Batman vs Superman, I urge you not to watch the newest full trailer, as it basically spoils the whole ****ing movie. Seriously, whomever produced that trailer needs to be fired. Don't discuss it here, just wanted to give you a word of warning.




Tell me about it.... I was like What at the end of the trailer.... 

Disappointed indeed. 

Civil War trailer is probably better..


----------



## rudyae86

arandomguy said:


> I'm wishing I maybe picked up HD518s (which appears to possibly be discontinued?) instead of the HD598s judging by the impressions I've been researching on it.
> 
> Looking at the reviews it seems like if I want an upgrade to the KSC75 that is over-ear and focused on fun improvements (without tradeoffs in other areas) for around $100 or less the only option is the Creative Aurvana Live which doesn't seem to be carried here in Canada (would need to import from the US, tricky returns, warranty. Also seem to be discontinued?) and may not be good for big heads (have both a big head and wear glass, related to the return issue).
> 
> Any similar alternatives?




HD558


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Here I am, STILL waiting on Philips to send me information on returning the faulty X2 back. Yes, they sent me a new one and the boix was supposed to have returning instructions. Never did. I believe they charged me $50 deposit until I returned the original, but here we are, a long ass time later. Contacted them the other day, in which they said they'd email me with more instructions. Of course it's been over a week, and no email. I'm tired of dealing with this, while still holding on to a broken headphone in the closet. :rolleyes:

I swear, this company/customer service.

Now, I dunno if they actually charged my card way back when as I can't see it. If they just forgot and didn't charge me, then ok, but I would've liked to have known What they were doing.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Hahaha, I wish it was actually that.


 
  
 I'm sitting here hoping that it isn't the big twist of the movie. I really want it to be that theory about Deathstroke.
  
 But yah, WB needs to look at Disney on how to do proper trailers instead of spoiling something that huge.


----------



## positively4th

yethal said:


> Dude, this entire *thread* is dedicated to gaming in virtual surround...


 
  
 Fair enough, that wasn't immediately obvious to me after reading the 1st page so apologies. I was googling and ended up on some other sites where lots of people were talking about virtual surround being a gimmick. I'm just here to learn, that's why I'm asking questions and researching.
  


mad lust envy said:


> The same way you hook up any and every wired headphones to a ps4. With devices like those on the first page. Astro Mixamp, Creative X7, etc.


 
  
 Are there any that hook up to PS4 via USB or are they all just via optical out?
  


evshrug said:


> I wouldn't call virtual surround a gimmick... When it's set up right. It is obvious for me to tell when something is in front or behind me, which has obvious combat benefits but also on a fantasy and role-playing aspect I find virtual surround to be more immersive. I don't know if you remember the Myst games, but live 3D surround in a game like that would be so cool!
> 
> Those Denon's are supposed to be great! Just FYI, the company Fostex had developed the drivers and most of the design for multiple Denon headphones, and sound great I their own right!


 
  
 Fair enough, I've not tried virtual surround so I have no idea, I'm just trying to learn. I'm curious about it that's why I am here  
  
  
  
  
 1 other question -- is virtual surround something that is handled by the amp, headphones, either, or both? Is it something hardware specific to the headphones? I.E. can I use my existing "normal" headphones with virtual surround provided by a new amp or do I have to get new headphones that say they have surround sound? Is 1 better than the other?


----------



## st0neh

rudyae86 said:


> Tell me about it.... I was like What at the end of the trailer....
> 
> Disappointed indeed.
> 
> Civil War trailer is probably better..


 
  
 Was there even anything in the trailer that wasn't common knowledge by now anyway?


----------



## Xermalk

Well talk about shame.
 My xonar dx has broken down (was so dusty it got damaged, constantly outputs noise now).
 So now im driving my new x2 with the onboard audio card (P8Z68-V PRO/Realtek ALC892).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Atleast it has a headphone amp.
  
 Will have to look around for a decent, but not to expensive soundcard or dac/amp during the christmas sales.
 Not sure i want to shell out the money for the creative x7.

 Would the essence stx be able to drive them decently, or i have to go up a price class?


----------



## positively4th

Creative X7 looks interesting after researching it further.. it's currently $299 on creative's website with free shipping and they have a $25 off coupon "EXTRA25" which brings it down to $275. Looks to be a pretty good price from what I can gather, checked amazon price history and the lowest it's been there looks like $320, not sure if there have been sales like this but I will give it a shot .


----------



## Evshrug

positively4th said:


> Fair enough, that wasn't immediately obvious to me after reading the 1st page so apologies. I was googling and ended up on some other sites where lots of people were talking about virtual surround being a gimmick. I'm just here to learn.
> *Good! Make up your own mind! I have a whole thread dedicated to headphone surround DSPs linked from my signature, check it out. Watch a YouTube sample like In my thread or the first post of this thread, but know it's a little better when you have the real hardware.*
> 
> 
> ...



*You use regular headphones with virtual surround. The surround comes from digital processing (DSP = Digital Signal Processor) so it has to happen before a headphone or amp. There are several different DSPs with different features like clearer sound or chat/game volume balancing, but ultimately people have different ears and different methods (like Dolby Headphone or SBX) will sound better to different people.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

st0neh said:


> Was there even anything in the trailer that wasn't common knowledge by now anyway?




There's nerdboy common knowledge, and then there are normal people who don't try to know every damn thing that's gonna happen in a movie. 

No, I don't want to see Luke Skywalker in a trailer. I would rather be surprised IN the theater when he's revealed.

No I don't need to see Spiderman in a trailer. I wanna be surprised when he finally appears in Civil War.

No I don't need to see how Figure A and B were attacked and Figure C saved them as a reveal for Batman v Superman.... or the general ******* outline for the whole movie revealed in a trailer.

Some things are better left for the actual movies, and not blow their loads early on the internet.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> There's nerdboy common knowledge, and then there are normal people who don't try to know every damn thing that's gonna happen in a movie.
> 
> No, I don't want to see Luke Skywalker in a trailer. I would rather be surprised IN the theater when he's revealed.
> 
> ...


 

 This. Literally almost every big Movie trailers nowadays want to show you the movie in 2 to 3 minutes. Makes you wonder why a lot of people pirate movies...... smh.
  
 Anyways, I got my tickets to Star Wars The Force Awakens. Going to watch it with Dolby Atmos 
  
 Should be fun.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> Here I am, STILL waiting on Philips to send me information on returning the faulty X2 back. Yes, they sent me a new one and the boix was supposed to have returning instructions. Never did. I believe they charged me $50 deposit until I returned the original, but here we are, a long ass time later. Contacted them the other day, in which they said they'd email me with more instructions. Of course it's been over a week, and no email. I'm tired of dealing with this, while still holding on to a broken headphone in the closet. :rolleyes:
> 
> I swear, this company/customer service.
> 
> Now, I dunno if they actually charged my card way back when as I can't see it. If they just forgot and didn't charge me, then ok, but I would've liked to have known What they were doing.





mad lust envy said:


> Here I am, STILL waiting on Philips to send me information on returning the faulty X2 back. Yes, they sent me a new one and the boix was supposed to have returning instructions. Never did. I believe they charged me $50 deposit until I returned the original, but here we are, a long ass time later. Contacted them the other day, in which they said they'd email me with more instructions. Of course it's been over a week, and no email. I'm tired of dealing with this, while still holding on to a broken headphone in the closet. :rolleyes: /quote]
> 
> I can't remember the last time I've seen such a massive disconnect between the quality of a company's products and the (lack of) quality of their customer service.
> 
> ...


----------



## shuto77

positively4th said:


> Creative X7 looks interesting after researching it further.. it's currently $299 on creative's website with free shipping and they have a $25 off coupon "EXTRA25" which brings it down to $275. Looks to be a pretty good price from what I can gather, checked amazon price history and the lowest it's been there looks like $320, not sure if there have been sales like this but I will give it a shot .




At that price, I highly recommend it. It's a very versatile device and you could always sell it if you hated it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

xermalk said:


> Well talk about shame.
> My Xonar DX has broken down (was so dusty it got damaged, constantly outputs noise now).
> So now I'm driving my new x2 with the on-board audio card (P8Z68-V PRO/Realtek ALC892).
> 
> ...


 
  
 The Essence STX can easily drive your 30-Ohm Philips Fidelio X2 headphones.
  
 You might also consider getting another Xonar DX (used, $50-$60, off eBay) and a FiiO A3 (E11K) headphone amplifier ($60)
 The A3 has a very low (<1-Ohm) output impedance, which is a little more desirable for driving 30-Ohm headphones,
 then the Essence STX's 10-Ohm output impedance, but it not that big of a deal.


----------



## PacoTaco

I have issues with Asus' virtual surround. Just sounds like revurb.

SBX's work much better for me. Though, as headphones get bigger sound stages and better detail retrieval, like the Omni, Virtual surround has less and less of an impact.

This is just an example of how everyone hears this one-size-fits-all algorithm effects different people differently. I have a disorder that makes it harder to hear the direction sound comes from, but wearing headphones makes it a lot easier.


----------



## Yethal

positively4th said:


> Are there any that hook up to PS4 via USB or are they all just via optical out?
> 
> 
> Fair enough, I've not tried virtual surround so I have no idea, I'm just trying to learn. I'm curious about it that's why I am here
> ...




PS4 cannot transmit surround sound over USB so we're stuck with optical until somebody builds a device that uses hdmi.

To answer Your other question, virtual surround is handled by a digital sound processor although most of the console devices contain a dsp, a dac and an amp. Hover it is possible on PC to have these three as separate devices. Some headphines have this built in but this is a PC only functionality. Your regularcanalog headphones will be okay though.


----------



## Japi95

Hello i have thinking buy new headphones what have more bass then my sennheiser hd598 what i got so cheap. My budjet is 200-300€ and i have watched philips fidelio x2 maybe good choice or some akgs? and i want open headphones i mainly play cs and i listen music edm,dubstep,drum and base etc i have sound blaster z.I have own beyerdynamic dt990pros but they hurt my ears so bad idk if clamp so hard or those orginal pads do something my ears...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pacotaco said:


> I have issues with Asus' virtual surround. Just sounds like revurb.
> 
> SBX's work much better for me. Though, as headphones get bigger sound stages and better detail retrieval, like the Omni, Virtual surround has less and less of an impact.
> 
> This is just an example of how everyone hears this one-size-fits-all algorithm effects different people differently. I have a disorder that makes it harder to hear the direction sound comes from, but wearing headphones makes it a lot easier.




As always, you have to give Dolby Headphone (Asus uses that, though branded differently) like a week before you get used to it, WITHOUT comparing it to anything else in that week. You can't just test it and come to a conclusion. It's not 'just' virtual headphone surround tech. It's there to mimic a full theater setup, which is why it sounds so different.

I've said as much a million times.

Dolby Headphone to me sounds like what I expect a room full of speakers to sound like, reverb and all. SBX makes the jump to virtual surround less drastic, but also fails to capture that surround feeling like Dolby Headphone. Seriously, People NEED to use it for a week, AND NOTHING ELSE. You have to adjust.


----------



## conquerator2

If only there was an X7 like device with DH


----------



## Evshrug

Well, Mad, sometimes there's that like what you described above, but sometimes they're just feeding stereo into the algorythm and wondering why it sounds so reverby without a distinction between front & back. 

Guys, You've gotta feed surround into the DSP algorythm, otherwise there literally won't be a difference between front and back.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> If only there was an X7 like device with DH



Sure there is a nice DAC coupled to a surround DSP... for PC only, heh.
*shrug*


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> As always, you have to give Dolby Headphone (Asus uses that, though branded differently) like a week before you get used to it, WITHOUT comparing it to anything else in that week. You can't just test it and come to a conclusion. It's not 'just' virtual headphone surround tech. It's there to mimic a full theater setup, which is why it sounds so different.
> 
> I've said as much a million times.
> 
> Dolby Headphone to me sounds like what I expect a rull full of speakers to sound like, reverb and all. SBX makes the jump to virtual surround less drastic, but also fails to capture that surround feeling like Dolby Headphone. Seriously, People NEED to use it for a week, AND NOTHING ELSE. You have to adjust.




I'm more talking PC soundcards. I had used the Astro mix amp for years before switching to PC and using the Asus DGX. I remember the Astro had a lot less revurb than the Asus sound card, despite both being Dolby Headphone. This is with the settings configured in Windows currently and the Asus control panel set correctly.

The SBX was a lot better if an experience. Unfortunately, the motherboard version of sbx sucks, the soundcard by itself was good, and the X7 was great. But the Asus implementation was always so meh that I may as well not use it and just use the headphones settings ingame (which have their own algorithm for competitive ones like CSGO or BLOPS 3 on PC.)

I use a JDS Element now, so I don't have an optical in to use virtual surround.

Also, the optical in for consoles on the X7 is Dolby headphone. It's only Sbx for PC, is it not?


----------



## Fegefeuer

SBX everywhere. On the PC with Multichannel PCM via USB, optical in with 5.1 AC3 640kbps.


----------



## PacoTaco

fegefeuer said:


> SBX everywhere. On the PC with Multichannel PCM via USB, optical in with 5.1 AC3 640kbps.




Are you talking About the X7? I looked it up, and it's SBX only on PC, but Dolby headphone on consoles.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes, the X7. Creative never used DHP and never will. Always used their own virtual speaker room, sometimes in addition with THX.


----------



## Japi95

japi95 said:


> Hello i have thinking buy new headphones what have more bass then my sennheiser hd598 what i got so cheap. My budjet is 200-300€ and i have watched philips fidelio x2 maybe good choice or some akgs? and i want open headphones i mainly play cs and i listen music edm,dubstep,drum and base etc i have sound blaster z.I have own beyerdynamic dt990pros but they hurt my ears so bad idk if clamp so hard or those orginal pads do something my ears...


----------



## JAMBOX

Amazing thread, congrats and thanks madlustenvy and all the other regulars. Wish I had read your reviews a couple of years ago, would have saved me from getting the Tritton real 5.1s!! Totally agree with your review, way to bass heavy and worst of all for gaming it feels like there is no rear representation at all. I mainly play BF and a Tank can park directly behind you with no sound at all =p!! I used to use the dss2 on ps3, with pretty poor(really poor build quality, 2 broke and another I had to resolder the connection to a driver) PX21s and that set up was better, also the dss2 got rid of the inate hiss of the headphones.

Anyway, wouldn't mind some advice. This thread pushed me over the edge to getting the X7 (creative have been sending me emails for ages) with a cybermonday deal. Got a few questions for setup.
-What's the best way to set up for an independent mic with the x7 and ps4?
 What do you guys use?
 I was thinking about a similar setup to this http://m.imgur.com/gallery/bKU4H/ using the mic from my Tritton(which is good).
-What about the ps4 end? Through the controller Or USB?
-And, I have no idea about good cables for the 3.5 part.
-Also, how is the x7 with higher ohm headphones, 120ohm, in terms of using the virtual surround?
Cheers.


----------



## Sam21

Just got the T50RP mk3 in the mail, Amazing bass and details..a bit bright however...Overall I like it.


----------



## Evshrug

pacotaco said:


> Are you talking About the X7? I looked it up, and it's SBX only on PC, but Dolby headphone on consoles.




The X7's headphone surround still uses SBX with consoles. The console sends out a Dolby Digital Live signal (a mix intended for home theater speakers) and the X7 converts that using SBX into a headphone surround mix.




sam21 said:


> Just got the T50RP mk3 in the mail, Amazing bass and details..a bit bright however...Overall I like it.



Compared to which headphones before it? Overall I liked it too, but it's not taking over my upgrade plans (would be a side grade from what I use now).





jambox said:


> Amazing thread, congrats and thanks madlustenvy and all the other regulars.
> ***snip***
> 
> *Creative X7*
> ...




Thanks!
I use a Blue Snowball USB mic, but almost any USB desktop mic will do.
I wouldn't use a headset plugged into USB unless I wanted to give up on surround, because while you can set game audio to still go out through Optical ("speakers"), a USB headset will "steal" the chat audio from the optical connection. So, just a USB mic for simplicity.
For me, using a separate USB mic was more simple and less spiderwebby than a 2.5->3.5 chat cable.

You can't just use ohm ratings to determine power or a headphone's requirements. Even if you simplify things to just Ohm and Sensitivity rating of a headphone, ohm is only half of the equation. For example, my 120 Ohm AKG K612 required a higher volume setting than the 150 Ohm Sennheiser HD700, because the K612 has a lower sensitivity. That said though, the X7 does quite a good job with the K612! You can get a better amp but you don't NEED to in order to get great sound and good soundstage, and if you want an amp that is audibly better you'll probably end up spending more than what you did on the X7 (unless you really just want a colored amp, might not be as technically good as the X7 but might suit your preferences better).

For more info on the X7, read my review on it. Linked in my signature. I've been using it for about a year now, still happy overall!


----------



## PacoTaco

Iirc, the X7 has 1.2 W @ 32 ohms, and it handled my Zmf blackwoods really well. Granted, there are amps that drove it better, but the X7 did a good job when I had it.

But yah, just use audiobot9000 to see if something can be driven.


----------



## Sam21

It has better detail retrieval and better separation compared to my HD598 for instance, A busy track sounds like you are playing two or more tracks at the same time,...Soundstage is Okish and bass is awesome, Kinda bright compared to 598's....


----------



## PurpleAngel

japi95 said:


> Hello i have thinking buy new headphones what have more bass then my Sennheiser hd598 what i got so cheap. My budget is 200-300€ and i have watched Philips Fidelio x2 maybe good choice or some AKGs? and i want open headphones i mainly play cs and i listen music edm,dubstep,drum and base etc i have sound blaster z. I have own Beyerdynamic dt990pros but they hurt my ears so bad idk if clamp so hard or those orginal pads do something my ears...


 
  
 From my understanding the Philips Fidelio headphones are like an improved DT990 (audio quality wise).


----------



## jincuteguy

venkman781 said:


> Newbie here, but wanted to share my enthusiasm for the g5. I recently purchased the Sennheiser Game One headset to use with my PS4. Having had a decent experience with the Sony Golds, I was blown away by the difference in sound quality from the Game One when paired with an Earforce DSS. The positional cues are really amazing in Fallout 4. The only limiting factor is the fact that I cannot use the mic on the Game One with the DSS, which I'm hoping the g5 will address. While the Game One headset gets decent gain in the current setup with the DSS, I'm anxious to see how it performs with amping from the g5.




Do u know when the G5 will come out?


----------



## jincuteguy

Also, does anyone know is it 'OK" to use the 300 - 600 Ohm Options of my X7 with the DT 990 Pro 250ohm headphone? Like would it break the headphone if I used the 300/600 Ohm mode?


----------



## PurpleAngel

jincuteguy said:


> Also, does anyone know is it 'OK" to use the 300 - 600 Ohm Options of my X7 with the DT 990 Pro 250ohm headphone? Like would it break the headphone if I used the 300/600 Ohm mode?


 
  
 Should not be an issue with using the 300-~600-Ohm gain setting on the X7, for use with 250-Ohm headphones.
 Just remember to set the volume knob low before turning the X7 on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pacotaco said:


> I'm more talking PC soundcards. I had used the Astro mix amp for years before switching to PC and using the Asus DGX. I remember the Astro had a lot less revurb than the Asus sound card, despite both being Dolby Headphone. This is with the settings configured in Windows currently and the Asus control panel set correctly.
> 
> The SBX was a lot better if an experience. Unfortunately, the motherboard version of sbx sucks, the soundcard by itself was good, and the X7 was great. But the Asus implementation was always so meh that I may as well not use it and just use the headphones settings ingame (which have their own algorithm for competitive ones like CSGO or BLOPS 3 on PC.)
> 
> ...




Ah, yeah. I actually 100% agree. For SOME reason, I can't get surround to sound as good on PC as it does for consoles. SBX, Dolby Headphone, they both fail at sounding AS good on PC as they do on consoles. Actually, for the X7 to sound as good on console, I literally use my Xonar U3 to output unprocessed Dolby Digital through the optical out, and feed THAT to the X7. Having A/Bed, it's clear that the X7 through USB with the proper settings, still doesn't do surround like when it's fed Dolby Digital.

And Paco, the X7 only uses SBX surround. Creative doesn't use Dolby Headphone.

Basically, as long as the X7's Dolby Digital light is on, that's when it processes surround it's best, IMHO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Also, does anyone know is it 'OK" to use the 300 - 600 Ohm Options of my X7 with the DT 990 Pro 250ohm headphone? Like would it break the headphone if I used the 300/600 Ohm mode?




You should be using the 300-600ohm setting for EVERY headphone, unless a subtle change in volume is drastic (which I would probably think would only be an issue with IEMs). I hate it that Creative (as well as Asus) mislabel these 'modes' since they're not doing anything but limiting the volume. They're not altering the amp to suit one headphone better or worse. They are literally just bottlenecking the amp's power.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Ah, yeah. I actually 100% agree. For SOME reason, I can't get surround to sound as good on PC as it does for consoles. SBX, Dolby Headphone, they both fail at sounding AS good on PC as they do on consoles. Actually, for the X7 to sound as good on console, I literally use my Xonar U3 to output unprocessed Dolby Digital through the optical out, and feed THAT to the X7. Having A/Bed, it's clear that the X7 through USB with the proper settings, still doesn't do surround like when it's fed Dolby Digital.
> 
> And Paco, the X7 only uses SBX surround. Creative doesn't use Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Basically, as long as the X7's Dolby Digital light is on, that's when it processes surround it's best, IMHO.



Ah, yah, I was mistaking it for the Dolby Digital. 

But yah, I've found the Astro did the surround thing better than the PC options, sadly.im wondering if it's because some PC games have a sound option for that built in already or the Windows implementation of surround is iffy.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> You should be using the 300-600ohm setting for EVERY headphone, unless a subtle change in volume is drastic (which I would probably think would only be an issue with IEMs). I hate it that Creative (as well as Asus) mislabel these 'modes' since they're not doing anything but limiting the volume. They're not altering the amp to suit one headphone better or worse. They are literally just bottlenecking the amp's power.


 
 Even for headphone with 16 or 32ohm?


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> Ah, yeah. I actually 100% agree. For SOME reason, I can't get surround to sound as good on PC as it does for consoles. SBX, Dolby Headphone, they both fail at sounding AS good on PC as they do on consoles. Actually, for the X7 to sound as good on console, I literally use my Xonar U3 to output unprocessed Dolby Digital through the optical out, and feed THAT to the X7. Having A/Bed, it's clear that the X7 through USB with the proper settings, still doesn't do surround like when it's fed Dolby Digital.
> 
> And Paco, the X7 only uses SBX surround. Creative doesn't use Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Basically, as long as the X7's Dolby Digital light is on, that's when it processes surround it's best, IMHO.


 
  
 Not sure this is even a good comparison.  You're comparing a Mixamp and X7 to _extremely_ cheap Asus options.  I had a more in depth writeup, but I'll just say that having extensively used the Mixamp, Tritton AX Pro (trash tier), Pioneer DIR-SE800c and Sony HW-700DS (barely above the AX Pro other than decoding options) for consoles, the Mixamp is the clear winner with consoles for the obvious reasons. 
  
 For gaming and movies across multiple platforms however, the Mixamp doesn't compare to the Essence STX.  Not the least of which is because you can actually get lossless audio through the STX instead of _compressed_ (and extremely lossy) Dobly Digital.  In terms of seperation when comparing the same games across platforms, they are somewhat similar, but the STX has a distinct edge in that regard, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was primarily due to the lossless audio.  For movie watching directly from a PS3/PS4 with the Mixamp compared to playing it through PC using the STX is like going from a 192kbps MP3 to 320kbps or FLAC.
  
 Also, does the DGX and U3 have multiple DH options (DH1, DH2, DH3)?  If not, then perhaps it's set to DH3 by default?  If that's the case, then yuck, and I can understand why someone would think the Mixamp is superior.
  
 edit: I guess it would help to mention too that the default Asus drivers can be spotty.  The UNi drivers in conjunction with the 7.1 virtual speaker shifter (seperate profile that you load, not just what you see in the Asus control panel) really help bring out more distinction in the sides/rears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, no. Im specifically talking about either device sounding better through console. Both Dolby Headphone and SBX sound better through console than PC. And it looks like you don't understand how I use my Xonar U3. I ONLY use it to send either Dolby Digital or Dolby Headphone DIGITALLY through its optical out. There is no processing done by the U3 other than when I send the Dolby processing out to my other amp. You can't do any better or worse than the U3 since it's ONLY sending 0s and 1s.

These surround dsps seem to do better when being sent Dolby Digital, and not PCM like the X7 or U3 doing things through USB.


----------



## JAMBOX

evshrug said:


> Thanks!
> I use a Blue Snowball USB mic, but almost any USB desktop mic will do.
> I wouldn't use a headset plugged into USB unless I wanted to give up on surround, because while you can set game audio to still go out through Optical ("speakers"), a USB headset will "steal" the chat audio from the optical connection. So, just a USB mic for simplicity.
> For me, using a separate USB mic was more simple and less spiderwebby than a 2.5->3.5 chat cable.



No probs. Oh yeah virtual surround is a must, once I gamed with it there was no going back. I probably should clarify, the Tritton's mic is a detachable 3.5mm mic (don't no if my link showed, since I'm a newbie) and I've got a couch gamer set up atm, but your desktop set up does seem convenient, maybe I'll try it in the future(need a desk first =p). The set up I was thinking (seen a few people suggest it), is to;
-take a usb mic to 3.5 splitter from ps4.
-Insert mic cable straight from mic clipped to headphone via extension.
-Then have chat cable output from usb splitter to the X7 line in.
That way I can have independent chat volume, I use that a lot on my headsets.
Not sure how that will behave though?
No idea about a good quality usb splitter which will work with ps4.



> For example, my 120 Ohm AKG K612 required a higher volume setting than the 150 Ohm Sennheiser HD700, because the K612 has a lower sensitivity. That said though, the X7 does quite a good job with the K612!



=D, k612's was the exact headphone I was wondering about lol. So, if it's good with that then I'm a happy dude, cheers.



> For more info on the X7, read my review on it. Linked in my signature. I've been using it for about a year now, still happy overall!



On mobile so I don't get sigs (lots of forums are weird like that), but I checked it out before in Op (actually what pushed me other the edge), nice review and thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Even for headphone with 16 or 32ohm?




Yes. Like I said, the ohm setting on those devices are simply a volume limiter, not actually a gain switch. Even if you had the most sensitive Headphone in the world, as long as your volume setting is low, you'll manage to get some volume play. The most sensitive Headphone I have used was 16ohm and stupid sensitive, and yet my volume setting was in the mid 20s for the X7. 

Just don't be stupid and have the volume setting at 75 or something when you start to use it. I'm sure some headphones may need to be that high, but you NEVER start an amp that high for ANY Headphone.

The only reason to use a lesser ohm setting is if for example, 30 is lower than you'd like but 31 is too loud. I have never, ever had any Headphone that sensitive to volume adjustment.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Even for headphone with 16 or 32ohm?


 
 I use the high gain mode with my 16 ohm COP and it actually sounds better than in the low gain setting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like the X7 has an actual gain switcher. You can hear an audible click coming from the inside of the X7. This one can make a difference with sensitive headphones and may be wise to use low gain and not high, depending on situation.

The ohm settings on your device is not that. It's software volume limiting. You're literally impeding your device by not using the high ohm setting. The high ohm settings is unlocking and allowing your device to function at 100%. Remember, again, the ohm setting is software based, not hardware. It's not helpful being on lower ohm.


----------



## Change is Good

I have decided that I just can't get rid of the K7XX because it is just too damn good. It is an open AKG variant I have bought 4 times when including the Q701, Annie, and K712 (5 times if including the K612). I just know that my inner AKG fanboy will eventually want one, again, for its soundstage so there is my logical reason for keeping them. In fact, I am going to buy some Q701 angled pads to make them more open and slightly brighter for competitive gaming.

They will continue to hold me over until I can afford a higher tier open headphone.


----------



## JJKMAN

What mid-fi phone would you guys recommend for someone who wants to play retro games like original LOZ or original Metroid? Will real nice headphones reveal too many flaws and too much graininess out of an expensive pair of phones or do they all handle those types of tracks well? Thanks in advance


----------



## venkman781

jincuteguy said:


> Do u know when the G5 will come out?




The latest I've seen from Creative is some time either this month or next.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> No, no. Im specifically talking about either device sounding better through console. *Both Dolby Headphone and SBX sound better through console than PC*. And it looks like you don't understand how I use my Xonar U3. I ONLY use it to send either Dolby Digital or Dolby Headphone DIGITALLY through its optical out. There is no processing done by the U3 other than when I send the Dolby processing out to my other amp. You can't do any better or worse than the U3 since it's ONLY sending 0s and 1s.
> 
> These surround dsps seem to do better when being sent Dolby Digital, and not PCM like the X7 or U3 doing things through USB.


 

 This is somewhat confusing, when you consider that I was replying to both your post and PacoTaco's, who was talking specifically about the way Dolby Headphone sounds on PC when using an Asus DGX (internal sound card) compared to the Mixamp.  He even then does a followup post on how the Mixamp seems to do surround better than PC and gives his theory as to why.

 It looks to me as though you're talking about two different things.  It looks like (now) you're really just talking about the way DH and SBX sounds on PC with the current devices you use, and that you get a better sound with said devices on consoles in comparison.  Although you were replying to a statement about DH implementation simply being better on consoles in general.  Which isn't the case at all. 
  
 Also, does the X7 even support more than 2ch PCM?  I can't find any information on what formats it can actually decode other than Dolby Digital, and that it does not support lossless formats such as True HD or DTS-MA (the reasons they give too are beyond stupid).  If it can't even decode PCM at 5.1, no wonder it sounds worse to you.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> No, no. Im specifically talking about either device sounding better through console. Both Dolby Headphone and SBX sound better through console than PC. And it looks like you don't understand how I use my Xonar U3. I ONLY use it to send either Dolby Digital or Dolby Headphone DIGITALLY through its optical out. There is no processing done by the U3 other than when I send the Dolby processing out to my other amp. You can't do any better or worse than the U3 since it's ONLY sending 0s and 1s.
> 
> These surround dsps seem to do better when being sent Dolby Digital, and not PCM like the X7 or U3 doing things through USB.


 
 Sorry maybe if I don't know a lot about Console but why do you need to use the Xonar U3 to go through its optical out? Why can't you just by pass the Xonar U3? Like  you said if it's only 0s and 1s digital, can't you just connect directly to either the X7 or Mixamp via Optical?
  
 But I agree with you that the MixAmp does a better job at doing the surround sound directional cues via the Dolby Digital than using the X7 which takes the 5.1 channels directly (not encode via Dolby Digital).  I actually test these out a while back and I can confirm that.
 But I was testing it on my PC only, not console.  
  
 I went to my local store and bought the A40 + mixamp, and a Sound Blaster Z soundcard (so I can hook up the MixAmp to the soundcard to get the Dolby Digital *(dolby digital live encoded signal).
  
 I compare the 2 setups:
    1) Mix Amp + SoundBlaster Z soundcard
    2) Just the X7 hook up directly to my PC via USB
  
 The Mix Amp + the Z soundcard gives me better directional cues better than the X7 for some reason.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I use the U3 for my PC to send optical out to my X7. I can send either Dolby Headphone, so the X7 would only need to do DAC and Amping duties (turn off SBX when doing this), or I can send out Dolby Digital from the PC to the X7 to convert into SBX. If I don't use the U3, and stick with just the PC to X7, I will NOT get Dolby Digital, and instead will have to rely on PCM to be converted to SBX which does NOT sound as good. I'm referring to virtual surround algorhythm sounding better, not talking about sheer technical performance.

I don't understand what's confusing about this. In all cases, the X7 is pulling all the weight. The U3 is only there for ensuring I get a digital DOLBY DIGITAL or DOLBY HEADPHONE signal to send to the X7.

Like I said 76389274874809 times, if the X7 gets Dolby Digital to light up on the front, it will do SBX surround better than when just doing X7 - USB - PC, because it will NOT get Dolby Digital from a PC this way, it will only get PCM (the Dolby Digital label will not light up on the X7's front face). 

As for what the X7 can get from the PC, it can do PCM 5.1.

For console, obviously not using the U3. The console sends proper Dolby Digital to the X7, which is why I say it sounds better for the virtual surround.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jjkman said:


> What mid-fi phone would you guys recommend for someone who wants to play retro games like original LOZ or original Metroid? Will real nice headphones reveal too many flaws and too much graininess out of an expensive pair of phones or do they all handle those types of tracks well? Thanks in advance


 
  
 Budget?
 What source are you playing the games on?


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> I use the U3 for my PC to send optical out to my X7. I can send either Dolby Headphone, so the X7 would only need to do DAC and Amping duties (turn off SBX when doing this), or I can send out Dolby Digital from the PC to the X7 to convert into SBX. If I don't use the U3, and stick with just the PC to X7, I will NOT get Dolby Digital, and instead will have to rely on PCM to be converted to SBX which does NOT sound as good. I'm referring to virtual surround algorhythm sounding better, not talking about sheer technical performance.
> 
> I don't understand what's confusing about this. In all cases, the X7 is pulling all the weight. The U3 is only there for ensuring I get a digital DOLBY DIGITAL or DOLBY HEADPHONE signal to send to the X7.
> 
> ...


 
 Yea I understand what you said, and I 100% agree with you that sending out Dolby Digital using your U3 (or any soundcard that can do Dolby Digital Live) to the X7 will have better surround sound.  I agree completely.  
 And I think I mentioned this in this thread a while back too.


----------



## mindbomb

pcm is superior to dolby digital usually, since dolby digital is lossy compression of pcm for the sole purpose of increased compatibility. When multichannel pcm isn't supported, pcm will give you problems with virtual surround for obvious reasons.
  
 Anyway, I noticed an interesting thing I noticed about dolby headphone on my xonar the other day. The dolby headphone  dsp didn't normalize before it downmixed to 2 channels. This means that you had to lower volume at some point while the audio was still multichannel to prevent clipping. So that's something to keep in mind for people doing digital out with dolby headphone, you might have to do some digital volume control as well and can't just rely on your amp's volume control.


----------



## JJKMAN

purpleangel said:


> Budget?
> What source are you playing the games on?


 

 A wii. Was going to hook up with the astro mix amp and/or dedicated amp if necessary. I don't have any equipment and will base my purchases on what pair of phones I get. $300-400 budget. Only expensive phone i've tried is the dt 770 and i liked it a lot. Would like a phone with a solid bass and I don't want to buy a nice pair of phones just for them to ruin some of the awesome music in classic SNES and NES games. I appreciate the response.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jjkman said:


> A Wii. Was going to hook up with the Astro mix amp and/or dedicated amp if necessary. I don't have any equipment and will base my purchases on what pair of phones I get. $300-400 budget. Only expensive phone I've tried is the DT 770 and i liked it a lot. Would like a phone with a solid bass and I don't want to buy a nice pair of phones just for them to ruin some of the awesome music in classic SNES and NES games. I appreciate the response.


 
  
 Looks like the Wii does not offer any headphone surround sound support and has basic stereo audio output.
 So no advantage with getting the Astro Mix-amp and it seems the Astro could not even be connected to the Wii (no optical).
  
 Get a FiiO A3 (E11K) headphone amplifier ($60) and connect it to the red/white RCA jacks on the A/V Multi adapter
 You can use just about any headphone amplifier you like, the A3 is just the cheapest and still decent headphone amplifier, that I like.
  
 This Y adapter cable will connect the A/V Multi to the FiiO A3.
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=666&seq=1&format=2
  
 Just plug the DT770 into the A3.


----------



## Hansotek

Hey folks - I have a Creative X7 on the way. Looking for a good complimentary mic option for chat audio. Chain as follows:

PS4 > X7 > HD800

I understand the mic integration for chat on PS4 is a little less straightforward compared to the Mixamp, so any specific products or setup ideas would be appreciated. Ideally, I'd like to be able to just clip a little lav mic onto the HD800 cable.


----------



## Yethal

hansotek said:


> Hey folks - I have a Creative X7 on the way. Looking for a good complimentary mic option for chat audio. Chain as follows:
> 
> PS4 > X7 > HD800
> 
> I understand the mic integration for chat on PS4 is a little less straightforward compared to the Mixamp, so any specific products or setup ideas would be appreciated. Ideally, I'd like to be able to just clip a little lav mic onto the HD800 cable.




You're going to need a ps4 compatible USB Bluetooth dongle, pair it with the X7 and use it for chat audio. This way You can plug the mic into the X7 and use it's software suite and adc.


----------



## Hansotek

yethal said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Hey folks - I have a Creative X7 on the way. Looking for a good complimentary mic option for chat audio. Chain as follows:
> ...




Just clarifying (because I'm a dummy) - USB plugs into PS4 and then pairs DIRECTLY with X7 via Bluetooth? Or is there another output connector there?

Clarifying point #2 - Then you can plug any mic you want into X7 mic input?


----------



## Yethal

hansotek said:


> Just clarifying (because I'm a dummy) - USB plugs into PS4 and then pairs DIRECTLY with X7 via Bluetooth? Or is there another output connector there?
> 
> Clarifying point #2 - Then you can plug any mic you want into X7 mic input?




Yes to both.


----------



## Hansotek

yethal said:


> hansotek said:
> 
> 
> > Just clarifying (because I'm a dummy) - USB plugs into PS4 and then pairs DIRECTLY with X7 via Bluetooth? Or is there another output connector there?
> ...



Perfect. Thanks!


----------



## PacoTaco

I'm starting to hear/read impressions that the THX00 is very, very much like the D7000.


----------



## Lunatics

Hey guys, does anyone here have any experience with the Mixamp Pro TR yet? I originally got into caring about audio and good quality headphones because my Siberia V2s broke and I wanted something better and I had heard about the mixamp+a40s but were too expensive at the time, and got the AD700s because I read they were supposed to be pretty much the best Counterstrike/FPS headphone out there, and I have been hooked for the past 5 years.
  
 With my increase of gaming on my PS4 now in addition to my computer I wanted a headset I could use on there, but every cheap budget logitech or what not I got and tried I could not stand after using AD700s for so long on my PC so I started looking into "gaming headsets" and figured what the hell, 6 years later I have money and a job I can afford to try the a40s now, so I thought I was doing the right thing and went with the latest and greatest A40s TR and I have to say I have never been more disappointed in my life. I'd be lying if I didn't expect to be a little disappointed just because I know how much of a marketing gimmick most of the stuff is, but I mean this setup is literally almost unusable.
  
 I thought the TR would be nice for being able to have custom EQ profiles but I wish I had bought the 2013 version. When enabling Surround on this new mixamp it turns all of the sound spacey and hollow, distorting it and making it sound very off. I cannot even sit there and listen and test if surround is working properly because of how horrible everything sounds. This seems to only be an issue on the TR where as the 2013 seems to get a lot of good reviews. All of the EQ profiles only make hearing the game harder for me than playing without the mixamp. On my PC gunshots blow out every other sound in the game no matter what profile I use, ontop of the distorted sound it makes, playing games is impossible. It's a little bit more flat on the ps4 playing CoD but when I plug my AD700s into the controller its ridiculous how much better they are at everything, even positional audio than with the current mixamp.
  
 I am in a predicament now and do not know what my best course of action is. Do I return the TR A40s and mixamp, buy a second pair of AD700s or 700xs for my ps4 and a seperate mic and just use them through the controller? Should I do that with another pair of 700s or equally good headphones, then buy a standalone 2013 mixamp ontop of it to use on my PC/ps4 for the surround?
  
 I have Sound Blaster Cinema 2 on my computer which has some sort of 7.1 virtual surround built in but it is just as bad as my mixamp when I enable it in terms of making everything sound too spacey and echoey and hollow and distorting my sound so I have not even used it. That's why I'm wondering if it's worth getting an older mixamp that seems to work well and have better reviews to use with my PC and PS4 and proper headphones, or if I am better off reading more into the OP and looking into other surround options. Essentially I would like to get it working on my PS4, and my PC as well. I know on my PC though I probably have more options and can upgrade my soundcard for better quality so I am not as concerned about that right now. Any help would greatly be appreciated especially if anyone has any knowledge or experience with the TR mixamp because right now I feel like I wasted 250 bucks and can get no support about it.


----------



## Senes

Are we okay to say that "true 5.1 headphones" are ****ty headphones compared to for example an AD 900X + soundblaster ZxR with emulated 7.1 surround?


----------



## JJKMAN

Ok so there's no way to plug the mixamp into the optical port on my tv and still get sound for the wii? I don't own the dt770 and I was mostly wondering whether a high quality headphone would sound ok with the poor sound quality of older consoles.
Like will a nice headphone wound ok if plugged into an NES? How about if hooked up to a computer via optical but playing an old NES game. Do those old tracks just sound grainy no matter if it’s optical or not? 
I totally appreciate the reply though because I didn’t think about the optical situation. 
 
 Thanks!


----------



## Xermalk

Now, this is probably a dumb question.
 But would a asus xonar dg be a "ok" match for the philips x2? Its output impendance is only 10 ohm, compared to the essence stx 36 and dx 100 ohms.
 Sure, they don't have a amp. But do you need that for the x2? Even a galaxy s4 can drive them at a excessively loud volume.


----------



## Sam21

LawL, PX100 kicks ass....that BASS


----------



## PurpleAngel

xermalk said:


> Now, this is probably a dumb question.
> But would a Asus Xonar DG be a "ok" match for the Philips x2? Its output impedance is only 10 ohm, compared to the Essence STX 36 and DX 100 ohms.
> Sure, they don't have a amp. But do you need that for the x2? Even a galaxy s4 can drive them at a excessively loud volume.


 
  
 I've always understood the Essence STX headphone jack to have an output impedance of 10-Ohms.
 Where did you read it's output impedance was 36-Ohms?
  
 The Xonar DG would be a fine budget choice for use with the Philips headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

purpleangel said:


> I've always understood the Essence STX headphone jack to have an output impedance of 10-Ohms.
> Where did you read it's output impedance was 36-Ohms?
> 
> The Xonar DG would be a fine budget choice for use with the Philips headphones.



I was wondering this myself lol. 

But the output impedance on those cards are about 10ohms and both have amps but he said they dont. 

Don't know how much he knows about the technical side of things but he's wrong. 

Or he is confused with the terminology... 

The PC thread needs to be a bit more informative about sound cards for PCs since it is in a way... More technical than console devices... Well it is getting more technical on the console side as well. 

Anyways. X2 should run fine from an Asus DG sound card on the highest gain setting. Not the best amp but it does well for what it is. 

I just run optical from my card to the schiit modi 2 uber and then to my cayin c5. Great match with the X2 with my set up


----------



## NamelessPFG

MLE, you find that running USB to the X7 as opposed to a Dolby Digital S/PDIF signal sounds WORSE for PC gaming with it?
  
 Well, that kinda defeats the purpose to me...what about it sounds worse?
  


purpleangel said:


> *Looks like the Wii does not offer any headphone surround sound support and has basic stereo audio output.*
> So no advantage with getting the Astro Mix-amp and it seems the Astro could not even be connected to the Wii (no optical).


 
  
 This is why Wii games (and GameCube and PS2 games before them, for that matter) tend to utilize Dolby Pro Logic II mixing in the first place, matrixing the extra channels with phase-shifting into the two physical audio channels.
  
*He needs a Dolby Pro Logic II decoder, in other words.* The Mixamp doesn't make a selling point out of it like it does with Dolby Digital decoding, but I'm reasonably sure this is part of the reason why they had RCA jacks on the older variants.
  
 Or he could just hunt down an old receiver with Dolby Headphone support built-in, or use an old device like my JVC/Victor SU-DH1 which is confirmed to decode Pro Logic II alongside Dolby Digital and DTS, then mix the decoded channels into Dolby Headphone.


----------



## FAXBombadil

Here goes!
 Few years of thorough reading through these head-fi forums, and I end up creating an account to post in the gaming section... Yeah.... hehe

 I've read through the entire first post and wished to thank you for the awesome guide, it's been brilliantly helpful yet now I have even more to chose from than when I started.

 I'm looking for the most FUN sounding setup I could possibly find, I really wish to find something truly immersive, with a good kick yet good on positioning. I don't so much care about price, or build quality or the ability to play music I just want a rig for GAMES and FILMS. Maybe somehow relating to a home theater system within my own head, just something with a real wow factor on multimedia.

 I currently own a pair of LCD-2s and shure SE-535 in ears. Which have been doing me great, although and slap me on the wrist I havn't actually tried the LCD-2s with games yet, I just have the feeling they would be too heavy while I can be very agitated playing games.

 I also only run these through a Centrance M8 and have never tried the dolby headphone surround processors. 

 I would mostly play games like Diablo, the witcher, wow, various FPS games etc, mostly PC but also PS4 on occasion.

 I've been looking into a few models following what I've read around here:

 Beyer DT990, 880 and 770
 Philips X1 & X2
 AKG K712 Pro
 Audio technica M50

 I'm also thinking about ''Gamer'' oriented headsets just for the fun factor and included mic.
 HyperX Cloud II
 Sennheiser Game One

 Possibly some more...


----------



## Sanctuary

Can't go wrong with the DT880.  Although, they become a lot more "fun" sounding if you quickly replace the default pads with something like the Jmoney lambskin (or something near equivalent that creates a little more space between the driver and your ear, as well as improved isolation).  Doing that also adds a bit more bass as well.  They don't become "bassheads" at all, but the default 880s are a bit thin sounding by default.  Probably due to leakage.
  
 It also helps that Beyers in general are some of the most comfortable you can wear for long sessions too.  FWIW, I also use them for general movie watching as well, only switching out to other headphones when I want to watch with planar bass response.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

@FAXBombadil 

Welcome. I'd say forget headsets and "build" your own gaming headphones that can serve your gaming and film purposes. Based on what you want, the Phillips Fidelio X2 paired with a BoomPro mic sounds like it'll be right up your alley. The BoomPro can be easily attached to it for gaming, or when watching movies you switch to the stock cord. Haven't heard the X2 but they are widely regarded as a "fun" open pair of headphones. I own the K7XX (sold by MassDrop) and pair it up with an Antlion ModMic. The K7XX is virtually identical to the K712 Pro, with good bass IMO and a spacious soundstage. Having used the K7XX for a while now, I can also recommend it for your purposes. They are quite comfortable for long sessions. DT880 is also well-regarded but I think its cable is non-detachable if that matters to you.The K7XX/K712 weigh the least of the three. X2 is the easiest to drive of all three and I believe has the most "noticeable" thump in the bass. Hope that helps.


----------



## Evshrug

lunatics said:


> Hey guys, does anyone here have any experience with the Mixamp Pro TR yet?
> I'd be lying if I didn't expect to be a little disappointed just because I know how much of a marketing gimmick most of the stuff is, but I mean this setup is literally almost unusable.
> 
> Should I do that with another pair of 700s or equally good headphones, then buy a standalone 2013 mixamp ontop of it to use on my PC/ps4 for the surround?



Hey Lunatics!
Honestly, I haven't heard the TR yet, so I can't tell you if your issue comes from the device, the A40 headphones, or just from you not being used to the surround processing yet. It could be any of the three! 
Dolby Headphone sounded not so good at first for me either, with an exaggerated sense of depth imparted to everything compared to what I was used to. But eventually, I did get used to it, and kicked ***.
I also confidently feel the A40 will feel like a congested mess compared to the AD700, especially if you're used to the AD700's presentation. Have you tried connecting the AD700 to the TR yet?
I honestly don't have any friends who own or have even heard the TR yet... I wouldn't expect it to be all that different from the older Mixamps, but anything' possible I suppose.

Suggestion: use the AD700 for a few days with the TR on console, see if you can get used to Dolby Headphone surround. Even Mad said in the guide that it took him a little while to get used to it, and that he didn't like the A40.




senes said:


> Are we okay to say that "true 5.1 headphones" are ****ty headphones compared to for example an AD 900X + soundblaster ZxR with emulated 7.1 surround?



Yes.
Take a budget for developing good sounding and comfortable headphones.
Subtract marketing inflation for "Made for Gaming!"
Divide by the number of drivers in the headphone... Instead of two, usually there's four or six total, unless they actually have a "sub" driver too. There's also going to be the added cost of crossovers or digital processing to control when each driver makes a sound.

Not much budget left compared to a decent audiophile headphone. Another detractor besides development budget/cost, will be the comfort downgrade as the headphones will probably be bigger and heavier (unless the drivers are even more severely compromised).

Could a good "true 5.1 surround" headphone be made? Perhaps... by increasing the budget, having one nice full-range driver for frontal cues and then just some small balanced armature drivers tuned for mids/treble for rear cues, kinda like a 4.0 setup, and then lots and lots of resonance dampening material. Still would be a bulky and fairly heavy headphone.




namelesspfg said:


> MLE, you find that running USB to the X7 as opposed to a Dolby Digital S/PDIF signal sounds WORSE for PC gaming with it?
> 
> Well, that kinda defeats the purpose to me...what about it sounds worse?
> 
> ...



I'm not really sure Nameless. Maybe the Dolby Digital Live processing softens the bite of a sound so that it's less fatiguing? I don't have problems with PC-->X7 audio, but then I rarely play PC.


----------



## Evshrug

faxbombadil said:


> Here goes!
> 
> Few years of thorough reading through these head-fi forums, and I end up creating an account to post in the gaming section... Yeah.... hehe
> 
> ...



Hi FAXBombadil, welcome to the land of the speaking and "baring your opinion!"
You definitely must try the LCD sometime during gaming, I assume you don't intend to get rid of it or the Shures anyway.

Based on your current headphones, the X2 seems like the best fit for your sonic preferences, though it is true that the K712 (or similar K7XX on Massdrop) weighs less and would add a versatile genre all-rounder to your current lineup. The AKG sound might seem very different from your current setup, but the Beyers would seem almost opposite of your preference.

Honestly, your IEMs might be very cool too. Just might like to put an IEM-suitable amp in your audio chain. Sometimes I play with my CustomArt 330v2 Pros.




sanctuary said:


> Can't go wrong with the DT880.



Certainly could go wrong with a DT880! It's a decent headphone, but totally down to individual experience. 

I had one for basically the maximum time before Amazon's return period ended... The only time I did that, because I wanted the DT880 to work. Couldn't keep them, because yes the mids were loud enough but felt anemic, bass was fine, but worst of all the treble had a glare which gave me my first experience with tinnitus. It hurt me, which surprised me because I owned the relatively bright AD700 for three years. I found the comfort mainly came from the pads, the headband was decent but I preferred the lighter weight of my AKG's and the feel after I wrapped the AKGs with a baby seatbelt cover (I've started "thinning" up top).

It's a headphone that will be good for some people, perhaps many people, but might be wrong for some and their ears.


----------



## Lunatics

evshrug said:


> Hey Lunatics!
> Honestly, I haven't heard the TR yet, so I can't tell you if your issue comes from the device, the A40 headphones, or just from you not being used to the surround processing yet. It could be any of the three!
> Dolby Headphone sounded not so good at first for me either, with an exaggerated sense of depth imparted to everything compared to what I was used to. But eventually, I did get used to it, and kicked ***.
> I also confidently feel the A40 will feel like a congested mess compared to the AD700, especially if you're used to the AD700's presentation. Have you tried connecting the AD700 to the TR yet?
> ...


 
 For what it's worth, I did try the mixamp with the AD700s figuring this would ultimately be a better solution overall anyway than the A40s however to me it sounded worse, and no matter which preset I used I could not get audio to sound usable, let alone good. To be honest, it sounded better with the a40s than with my AD700s. I know it was the mixamp and not the headphones because it did it with both headphones, and only when dolby was turned on. With it off the sound sounded normal and great, again a little better through my A40s because I think the EQ presets were really meant for their headsets, but definitely better on both headphones with it off. When I plugged the AD700s or the A40s into the ps4 controller by themselves everything sounded amazing. The a40s really were not even that bad as just a basic headset for casual gaming on my ps4 which is really what I am doing, and that's why I was just going to return the TR and get a used older edition for around 140 with the mixamp and a40s. I had used virtual surround for a long time on my Siberia V2s and a couple other headsets and never had any issues with it, it was only this mixamp and the cinema suite on my desktop that effected me like this. Ultimately I bought a used Sound Blaster X7 from a user on here hoping to be an all in one solution to allow me to use my existing good headphones on both my desktop and ps4 with surround sound, have a mic connected and eventually get a bluetooth adapter for my ps4 to connect the mic as a headset, but use a usb desktop mic for now. I'm hoping this should provide a better all in one solution for all of my needs for the same price I spent on the A40s and mixamp originally. If everything works out and I am happy with it then my next step will be to look into a better pair of headphones for competitive gaming on the PC and general use on the ps4, maybe around Christmas or tax return time . As of right now I'm looking at and leaning towards the K712s but we'll see how everything goes.


----------



## Sanctuary

evshrug said:


> Honestly, your IEMs might be very cool too. Just might like to put an IEM-suitable amp in your audio chain. Sometimes I play with my CustomArt 330v2 Pros.
> Certainly could go wrong with a DT880! It's a decent headphone, but totally down to individual experience.
> 
> I had one for basically the maximum time before Amazon's return period ended... The only time I did that, because I wanted the DT880 to work. Couldn't keep them, because yes the mids were loud enough but felt anemic, bass was fine, but worst of all the treble had a glare which gave me my first experience with tinnitus. It hurt me, which surprised me because I owned the relatively bright AD700 for three years. I found the comfort mainly came from the pads, the headband was decent but I preferred the lighter weight of my AKG's and the feel after I wrapped the AKGs with a baby seatbelt cover (I've started "thinning" up top).
> ...


 
  
 Not sure how loud you normally listen to headphones, but I didn't find the treble to be that harsh, especially after coming from the terribly siblilant Ultrasone Pro 900.  That **** was nails-into-eardrum levels of fatiguing.  As I said in my previous post, I felt the default pads with the 880s left them feeling too thin, or "anemic" as you stated, so I replaced them.  That did affect the overall sound signature by taming the high end (which wasn't _awful_ to me) and making it sound fuller all around.  So I guess if only stock sound counts, then you could go wrong.


----------



## FAXBombadil

Ah awesome, thank you for the warm welcome! 

 As goes for most things I guess the next step will be to demo the X2, 7xx and 880s to make my own mind up, I thought I would post just in case there was something else out there. 
 Nice insight about the ''gamer'' headsets, Somehow I might confuse inferior build quality and fun factor every so often, thought some of the higher end gaming headsets could be quite entertaining, especially since you can't often demo a gaming headset it's hard to get an idea on what they actually sound like.

 Mic wise that was exactly what I was going for, although hesitant between a clip on and a mic on a stand... which might be a little overkill but nice to keep it on the desk, something like this:
 - Samson SAGOMIC Go 
 - Samson C01U

 Funny enough the X1 was actually the headset I was looking into before getting the LCD2.


----------



## Evshrug

sanctuary said:


> Not sure how loud you normally listen to headphones, but I didn't find the treble to be that harsh, especially after coming from the terribly siblilant Ultrasone Pro 900.



I didn't think the highs were super bad, but I did start to have pain with extended listening (over and hour and a half). It's not too bad to start with, so that's why I think it won't bother all, but it did more than just annoy me so I was advising caution. Definitely recommend starting out at lower volumes.

I had the 600 ohm DT880 and a few amps to chose from. I tend to listen at IMO moderate volumes and turn it down as I get used to it. I DO tend to test phones with long marathons, which can be too much with headphones that aren't exceptionally balanced.


----------



## PacoTaco

I've been strongly considering trading my Omni in for a TH900 or a THX00+HD650, but I'm not sure. I kinda need a new sound, so hopefully the Brazillian Rosewood cup change makes a big difference.
  
 Is MLE the only one that's tried the TH900 for games?


----------



## conquerator2

pacotaco said:


> I've been strongly considering trading my Omni in for a TH900 or a _*THX00+HD650*_, but I'm not sure. I kinda need a new sound, so hopefully the Brazillian Rosewood cup change makes a big difference.
> 
> Is MLE the only one that's tried the TH900 for games?


 
 If you ever decide for it, do the bold choice


----------



## Kariak

I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a dac/amp combo for my xbox one.
 I've got a pair of 598s that I'd like to use for music and gaming on my xbox one if possible.
 I've seen some used e17s on ebay that have the optical in but are there other options I might be able to take?
 Will the e07k work as well?


----------



## Sam21

kariak said:


> I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a dac/amp combo for my xbox one.
> I've got a pair of 598s that I'd like to use for music and gaming on my xbox one if possible.
> I've seen some used e17s on ebay that have the optical in but are there other options I might be able to take?
> Will the e07k work as well?


 
 Xbone can output in two ways through optical-out:
  
 2 channels PCM 
 5.1 channels Dolby Digital encoded signal / DTS
  
  
 Your gonna need a 5.1 channels Dolby Digital decoder, not all optical ins can decode DD, 5.1 channels Dolby Digital encoded signal is needed for surround gaming.
  
 If you like stereo gaming, you can connect Xbone's optical out to any optical-in on any DAC that has optical-in.[you have to change the sound settings in Xbone to output 2 channels PCM through optical-out]


----------



## shuto77

kariak said:


> I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a dac/amp combo for my xbox one.
> I've got a pair of 598s that I'd like to use for music and gaming on my xbox one if possible.
> I've seen some used e17s on ebay that have the optical in but are there other options I might be able to take?
> Will the e07k work as well?







sam21 said:


> Xbone can output in two ways through optical-out:
> 
> 2 channels PCM
> 5.1 channels Dolby Digital encoded signal / DTS
> ...




Maybe a Soundblaster E5? And use a lapel or USB mic? Not sure if it would work, but it would give you headroom in case you want to upgrade the headphones later.


----------



## Sam21

E5 does not decode Dolby Digital, the DSP chip inside E5 can decode DD but it is not implemented. Your options are : Recon3D, MixAmp or X7, X7 is really a nice unit I think but it is pricey.


----------



## Sam21

Creative is working on a unit they call G5, people say it can decode DD, maybe wait for it to be released, it is going to be released like any day....I say don't pull the trigger yet.


----------



## Sam21

shuto77 said:


> Maybe a Soundblaster E5? And use a lapel or USB mic? Not sure if it would work, but it would give you headroom in case you want to upgrade the headphones later.


 
  
 E5 can turn 2 channels pcm into virtual surround, But I don't know how it compares with when the surround algorithm is fed with a decoded 5.1 channels Dolby Digital.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kariak said:


> I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a dac/amp combo for my xbox one.
> I've got a pair of 598s that I'd like to use for music and gaming on my xbox one if possible.
> I've seen some used e17s on ebay that have the optical in but are there other options I might be able to take?
> Will the e07k work as well?


 
  
 If you want headphone surround sound, from a gaming console, get the Astro Mix-amp
 Turtle Beach DSS can also provide headphone surround sound, with a gaming console, they sell used for around $20.
  
 For better audio quality, without headphone surround sound, get the FiiO E17.


----------



## Kariak

I don't think I really need surround sound. I've used surround sound headsets before for gaming. I just want my games to sound great and I've read that surround sound can have negative effects.
  
 I could pick up an e17 with an optical in for $100 used on ebay right now. Should I pull the trigger on that or get an e07k and save $30. Will the optical make a big difference for the xbox one? How much of difference will it make for music on my computer as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> MLE, you find that running USB to the X7 as opposed to a Dolby Digital S/PDIF signal sounds WORSE for PC gaming with it?
> 
> Well, that kinda defeats the purpose to me...what about it sounds worse?
> 
> ...




Well, you're more inclined to tweak the audio filles to get those older modes on your games, right?

What I'm saying is that for some reason, the virtual surround processing seems to do better at emulating surround when it's being fed literal Dolby Digital, as opposed to whatever method these soundcards use to decode PCM and convert to Dolby Headphone, and SBX. Like for example, I can literallpy compare the same game on the PS4 and Steam. The PS4 has Dolby, my PC is doing multi channel PCM. The PS4 surround will be better.

And to whomever asked, of COURSE I was feeding it 5.1/7.1 channels. I DO get surround. It's just not as good as a Dolby Digital conversion. 

I'm starting to think some people just don't understand what I mean by better surround, not better SIGNAL. I'm pretty well aware that PCM is technically less compressed than Dolby Digital. All that means nothing if the surround algorithms do a better job converting a specific audio type over the other.

As for tjhe Wii with Mixamp use... it worked exceptionally well (older Mixamp that had RCA input). The Like Nameless states, the Wii uses Pro Logic II which the Mixamp converts to a poor man's Dolby Headphone that does a great job of doing surround sound, though sounding quite a bit more processed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yo, you know what needs to happen? For Hifiman to get in contact with Massdrop, and see if they can Hifiman to ahgree in developing an HE-400 successor: still with a double-sided magnet like the older HFM headphones (They sound thicker) without the treble mountains of death, same meatiness down low (not less), and the new 400i type design.

Like they could literally grab the leftover HE-400 drivers, and re-tweak them and sell them new for $300. Oh please.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Well, you're more inclined to tweak the audio filles to get those older modes on your games, right?
> 
> What I'm saying is that for some reason, the virtual surround processing seems to do better at emulating surround when it's being fed literal Dolby Digital, as opposed to whatever method these soundcards use to decode PCM and convert to Dolby Headphone, and SBX. Like for example, I can literallpy compare the same game on the PS4 and Steam. The PS4 has Dolby, my PC is doing multi channel PCM. The PS4 surround will be better.
> 
> ...




I get what you are saying MLE! I've noticed this too especially when I switch from PC to my PS4 using the Recon3D. Having Dolby Digital fed to the Recon3D does soundslightly better and is if it were doing a better job at processing surround sound. 

Hmmm


----------



## PurpleAngel

kariak said:


> I don't think I really need surround sound. I've used surround sound headsets before for gaming. I just want my games to sound great and I've read that surround sound can have negative effects.
> 
> I could pick up an e17 with an optical in for $100 used on ebay right now. Should I pull the trigger on that or get an e07k and save $30. Will the optical make a big difference for the xbox one? How much of difference will it make for music on my computer as well?


 
  
 Not even sure the E07K can even work with a gaming console?
 I'm guessing not.


----------



## rudyae86

https://geizhals.at/creative-sound-blaster-x-g5-7-1-70sb170000000-a1360767.html

Just did a random search of the G5 and noticed this.... 

Does it mean the G5 has been released in Europe already?


----------



## Kariak

purpleangel said:


> Not even sure the E07K can even work with a gaming console?
> I'm guessing not.


 
 I can't find anything that says it does or not. Wouldn't it work if I just ran it through the controller's 3.5mm jack?
  
 Will 24-bit/192kHz be much of a difference versus 24-bit/96 khz for gaming? I don't have an optical port in my computer so I'd only be able to take advantage of it on my console.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Some interesting shots of the G5. I still don't see a traditional optical in for console?! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201512090066/


----------



## Fegefeuer

Optical In is a given then. Great.

Just use a 3,5mm Adapter. Plenty of soundcards need one for optical


----------



## PurpleAngel

kariak said:


> I can't find anything that says it does or not. Wouldn't it work if I just ran it through the controller's 3.5mm jack?
> 
> Will 24-bit/192kHz be much of a difference versus 24-bit/96 khz for gaming? I don't have an optical port in my computer so I'd only be able to take advantage of it on my console


 
 So with the gaming console you would only use the E07K's amplifier, not it's DAC feature.
 CD music audio is 16-bit/44.1K, guessing 24-bit/48K is more then enough for gaming audio (or DVD movies?).
 So the chance of you needing more then 24-bit/96K is very remote.


----------



## kellte2

helvetica bold said:


> Some interesting shots of the G5. I still don't see a traditional optical in for console?! :confused_face_2:
> 
> http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201512090066/




Since 2013, the mixamp has used a 3.5 mm optical input. This type of connection is readily available both in new cables and adapters for the standard S/PDIF connector type. Not a problem.


----------



## Kariak

purpleangel said:


> So with the gaming console you would only use the E07K's amplifier, not it's DAC feature.
> CD music audio is 16-bit/44.1K, guessing 24-bit/48K is more then enough for gaming audio (or DVD movies?).
> So the chance of you needing more then 24-bit/96K is very remote.


 
 What If I ran it through my TV? Could I make use of the DAC then?


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



So with the gaming console you would only use the E07K's amplifier, not it's DAC feature.
 CD music audio is 16-bit/44.1K, guessing 24-bit/48K is more then enough for gaming audio (or DVD movies?).
 So the chance of you needing more then 24-bit/96K is very remote.


 This!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You do not need 24/96. The amount of everyday content that uses that is pretty damn small. I don't think I have anything that uses those bitrates.

The only benefit of going with 24/96 for PC for me is that lowering volume doesn't reduce the bitrate, unlike 16/44, which will reduce bitrate from optimal. Not sure exactly how it all works.

In fact, my X7 pops and crackles if I play 24/96. I had to lower to 24/48 which gives me no pops or crackles. And guess, what? My stuff sounds the same. You literally need to look for 24/96 audio files to gain that benefit. Hell, I'm the type who's happy with 320kbps MP3s.


----------



## st0neh

kariak said:


> I don't think I really need surround sound. I've used surround sound headsets before for gaming. I just want my games to sound great and I've read that surround sound can have negative effects


 
  
 The only negative is that once you game with good virtual surround you won't ever go back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously. Pick a good game that takes advantage of surround, and play in virtual surround for a week without playing or testing stereo. After that week, put stereo back on.

You'll feel like you put blinders on.

My dilemma at the moment is that the games I'm playing are in stereo. Well my main game is surround, but it's bugged and causes pops and crackles, as well as muting the characters and some sound effects. That's upsetting.


----------



## Yethal

Creative just sent me an email stating that the G5 is ready to go (alongside a coupon code). Anyone here willing to be the early buyer?


----------



## DagsJT

yethal said:


> Creative just sent me an email stating that the G5 is ready to go (alongside a coupon code). Anyone here willing to be the early buyer?


 
  
 I'm looking to buy the G5 myself. Is the coupon code single use? I'm happy to be an early buyer


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Creative just sent me an email stating that the G5 is ready to go (alongside a coupon code). Anyone here willing to be the early buyer?




Maybe it released in Europe first? I talked to Ryan Schliepper at RMAF about a bunch of things, and they agreed that they wanted to send me a G5 so I could review it. I've heard from them a few times since, but not in the past week, and I didn't get an email from Creative saying that the G5 has been released.

I did get a (US?) coupon code yesterday if anyone wants it, 30% off excluding things on lightning sales:
GIMME30

If you have an X7 or just want Bluetooth audio from the PS4, Creative's Bluetooth dongle is $27.99 with code
Code DOES work with the X7 LE, bringing that down to $350.
Code does NOT work on the X7, which has its own sale of $350 + includes the Bluetooth dongle.

If you're getting an X7, you might as well pick up the E-MU XM-7 speakers while you're at it (because otherwise you'd get a DSP without a speaker amp). $80 when bought with any X7, or $100 bought separately with a code. I haven't heard these speakers (the other person's big review of the X7 also reviews the speakers), but I bet they were designed with the X7's power output in mind. My Chane speakers are 8 ohms and harder to drive, the standard X7 is a bit weak for these speakers, but my Polk Monitor M40's sounded great, so I think speaker choice makes a difference.


----------



## kellte2

I'm so torn on the G5 versus X7. Now that PS4 streams Spotify, I find myself rarely grabbing my computer to play music. Certainly wouldn't have use for the speaker amplification of the X7, either. With the promo code "Extra25" the X7 and Bluetooth dongle can be had for 324.99, plus tax. 

Conversely, the G5 looks impressive and presumably will have comparable, but maybe not quite as impressive DAC capabilities. It also figures to be considerably cheaper and I could sell my class-A modded Matrix M-Stage and Mixamp 2013 to pay for it entirely. 

Any thoughts from you experts?


----------



## Evshrug

Didn't know about the "extra25" code, does it work even double-stacking with the "lightning" deal on the X7?

On one hand, the X7's DAC is a step up, you'll have more setup flexibility for the future (computer or passive speakers, did I mention I use the speaker amp for my Stax?), and it's A/C wall powered so you'll get better amping performance. It also doesn't look like the G5 is available in the U.S.A. yet (if that is relevant to you). I'd probably pick this option if I was gaming/chilling to movies/music on a TV in a living room or den.

On the other hand, the G5 is more compact, costs less, and still ought to be a noticeable upgrade from the Mixamp (tho the amp probably won't compete with your M-Stage, it still ought to be enough). I'd probably pick this option if I was gaming at a computer desk.

I do game from a computer desk... But as it happens, I have use for all of the X7's features. I recommend being happy with whatever you chose


----------



## DagsJT

Yep, I game at a desk and looking to replace my Mixamp with the G5. Would be great to get a code to knock the price down a little though


----------



## Blze001

Whelp my X-Fi HD came in two days ago, got a chance to do some listening. Initial impressions:
  
 Holy bejeebus my mic works so much better on this thing. Seriously. Everyone on my Mumble server was shocked. Which is great, because the need for a mic input is why I didn't just grab an O2 or stack of Schiit instead. Well, that and the fact I got this for $60 with shipping... fights with the USPS and needing a replacement sent notwithstanding.
  
 Now for the output. My initial impressions, after spending an hour meticulously tweaking and investigating every single setting Creative gives us, was that it sounded pretty good, but kind of weak. The bass impact was more the mids/trebs receding instead of the bass hitting, that sort of thing.
  
 Then I remembered I had gotten accustomed to my headphones being driven by a beast of a parafeed tube amp, so I might have been expecting a little too much from the USB-powered X-Fi. Utilizing the line-out on the X-Fi into the Torpedo was a subtle, yet noticeable improvement over the DSS2 I was using.
  
 All in all, it's exactly what I needed: something to get me off the motherboard mic input and give me a solid-state option when watching Youtube or doing things where 600ohms of high-voltage ECC90 tube goodness is a wee bit overkill. Right now my AKG-K550s with ModMic are what run off the X-Fi, and my Q701s are on the Torpedo.


----------



## rudyae86

I have nnot received any coupon from Creative... Even though I'm subscribe to their prom and newsletters...


----------



## kellte2

rudyae86 said:


> I have nnot received any coupon from Creative... Even though I'm subscribe to their prom and newsletters...


 
  
 It isn't out in the US, at this time (if that's where you're located).


----------



## Yethal

Unfortunately the promo code is tied to my email account so I'd have to purchase it myself in order to take advantage of it. The G5 costs 150 euro (110 with the code) so expect similar price in the US. If somebody here would want to buy it off of me for the same 110 euro plus shipping to wherever You live, pm me and we'll work something out.


----------



## kellte2

yethal said:


> Unfortunately the promo code is tied to my email account so I'd have to purchase it myself in order to take advantage of it. The G5 costs 150 euro (110 with the code) so expect similar price in the US. If somebody here would want to buy it off of me for the same 110 euro plus shipping to wherever You live, pm me and we'll work something out.




Given the low price point, I'm extremely interested in the performance. They might have just killed the Astro Mixamp, but their amplification claims seem hard to believe at that price. Time will tell.


----------



## Yethal

http://m.creative.com/pl/p/sound-blaster/sound-blasterx-g5

The specs are here and the store says it's available so if you don't mind shipping from Europe then go for it.


----------



## DagsJT

yethal said:


> http://m.creative.com/pl/p/sound-blaster/sound-blasterx-g5
> 
> The specs are here and the store says it's available so if you don't mind shipping from Europe then go for it.


 
  
 Looks like you can only ship from Europe to a few select countries. I looked at getting it sent to the UK from the Euro store as it's cheaper but UK isn't an option.


----------



## Yethal

dagsjt said:


> Looks like you can only ship from Europe to a few select countries. I looked at getting it sent to the UK from the Euro store as it's cheaper but UK isn't an option.




I guess UK is it's ownregion since it does ship to Poland and Ireland.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Geeze when will the G5 be available in the US?! Been waiting on this. Otherwise I'm considering Tritton HDMI 7.1 headset.


----------



## Sam21

Apparently it doesn't have DD decoding ? 
  
 http://en.europe.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blasterx-g5
  
 http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=1&catName=Sound%20Blaster&subCatID=1135&prodID=22669&prodName=Sound%20BlasterX%20G5&nbsp;&bTopTwenty=1&VARSET=prodfaqRODFAQ_22669,VARSET=CategoryID:1135
  
  
  
 I checked the manual/software, there are no options/indicators for DD decoding.


----------



## Sam21

Unlike E5, the G5 lets you choose 7.1 channels input through the acoustic engine. That I like. so it just gives you 7.1 surround for PC gaming only ? no DD decoding means no surround for consoles...E5 and consoles can be paired only if you output PCM through the optical-out on consoles, is G5 the same ? [I hope not] .
  
 Creative should add this feature[7.1 input] to X7 as well.


----------



## Change is Good

Does anyone, here, have an extra pair of angled K702/Q701 pads they'd like to sell?


----------



## Helvetica bold

sam21 said:


> Unlike E5, the G5 lets you choose 7.1 channels input through the acoustic engine. That I like. so it just gives you 7.1 surround for PC gaming only ? no DD decoding means no surround for consoles...E5 and consoles can be paired only if you output PCM through the optical-out on consoles, is G5 the same ? [I hope not] .
> 
> Creative should add this feature[7.1 input] to X7 as well.


 

 It looks like the Creative Software Suite only effects PC games correct? Also the G5 looks to have some killer features for the PC but limited options for console use? I guess its not the Mix Amp killer or its too soon to say.


----------



## kellte2

helvetica bold said:


> It looks like the Creative Software Suite only effects PC games correct? Also the G5 looks to have some killer features for the PC but limited options for console use? I guess its not the Mix Amp killer or its too soon to say.




I don't think the specs for virtual surround are only to be used by PC. It uses the same processing as the X7, and therefore, console virtual surround sound is a given at this point.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I hope so but its weird there no instructions regarding console audio settings. For example no mention of using PCM or anything except general cable usage. Or did i miss something?


----------



## Lunatics

Is there a difference in the 2 Dolby choices for the PS4s audio choices? Is one supposed to be used over the other?


----------



## Sam21

kellte2 said:


> I don't think the specs for virtual surround are only to be used by PC. It uses the same processing as the X7, and therefore, console virtual surround sound is a given at this point.


 
  
 to do virtual surround with consoles, You have to have a DD decoder, E5 doesn't have this, G5 seems to not have it also. Yes, X7/E5/G5 all use the Axx1 DSP chip that is capable of decoding DD, However, DD decoding is not implemented in the E5/G5's firmware.


----------



## Sam21

helvetica bold said:


> *It looks like the Creative Software Suite only effects PC games correct?* Also the G5 looks to have some killer features for the PC but limited options for console use? I guess its not the Mix Amp killer or its too soon to say.


 
 You can Use the software for PC use and you can use the software to save profiles which are saved in G5's memory, that way you can use the G5 without connecting it to a USB port on a PC, however, you need the PC to save profiles.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's anything like the X7's software on both PC and as an app, it does affect the device when playing your consoles. Like EQ, surround settings, etc. That's why when I'm playing my PS4, I either keep my PC on to adjust things with my keyboard (volume buttons on the keyboard are convenient for adjusting the PS4 volume), or use the app which has a little bit of latency but does the same thing. My X7 is far away from me, so I don't ever use the volume knob (which sadly, I prefer to have near me).


----------



## kellte2

sam21 said:


> to do virtual surround with consoles, You have to have a DD decoder, E5 doesn't have this, G5 seems to not have it also. Yes, X7/E5/G5 all use the Axx1 DSP chip that is capable of decoding DD, However, DD decoding is not implemented in the E5/G5's firmware.




"Built with precision audiophile components, the G5 delivers a best-in-class stereo experience for gaming consoles1 with high-resolution of 24-bit/192kHz, 120dB USB DAC hardware driven audio playback that enables you to experience your gaming audio soundtrack in amazing detail. You'll be able to detect in real time where your enemy exactly is and get the winning edge every single time!"


You were exactly right. Stereo for consoles. What a huge missed opportunity.


----------



## Sam21

kellte2 said:


> "Built with precision audiophile components, the G5 delivers a best-in-class stereo experience for gaming consoles1 with high-resolution of 24-bit/192kHz, 120dB USB DAC hardware driven audio playback that enables you to experience your gaming audio soundtrack in amazing detail. You'll be able to detect in real time where your enemy exactly is and get the winning edge every single time!"
> 
> 
> You were exactly right. Stereo for consoles. What a huge missed opportunity.


 
 I still think virtual surround is possible with just 2 input channels, but no one believes me.


----------



## Evshrug

sam21 said:


> I still think virtual surround is possible with just 2 input channels, but no one believes me.



Because "surround" implies more angles of direction than just the front 90° or 180°. There is no rear channel mixing without encoding.


----------



## Yethal

There is a possibility that somebody copy-pasted the specs from the E5.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> There is a possibility that somebody copy-pasted the specs from the E5.




I like your optimism, but it's doubtful because it says the same limitations in the user QuickStart guide is (the English version is used in the EU and USA).

I'm gonna blog about it in a new thread. It's not all bad... but certainly seems to miss the market of this thread.

G5 discussions and review thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/790796/creative-g5-discussion-and-reviews/0_30#post_12152341


----------



## DagsJT

Confirmation from Creative on Twitter:

@CreativeLabs: Virtual surround for both. Consoles are stereo virtual surround. Pc is native 7.1 virtual surround.


----------



## Fegefeuer

lol,

could have at least given an option to save settings on PC for optical in/consoles. Useless device.


----------



## Evshrug

Guys, let's move G5 discussion so we don't derail this thread:
Creative G5 Discussion and Review thread


----------



## Change is Good

It's not actually derailing because this thread covers a wide spectrum of surround gaming. Just say "let's talk about it in its dedicated thread" (which you just so happened to start). *shrug*


----------



## Evshrug

Mad has always said this thread was not about PC gaming sound cards, and nobody else had made a G5 thread in the past 2 months. So I figured it would be good to change that.

Are you going to review the TH-X00? I'd like to read that! Also, how do you feel about Star Wars Battlefront? Does it capture the feel of the first two?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Mad has always said this thread was not about PC gaming sound cards, and nobody else had made a G5 thread in the past 2 months. So I figured it would be good to change that.
> 
> Are you going to review the TH-X00? I'd like to read that! Also, how do you feel about Star Wars Battlefront? Does it capture the feel of the first two?




I was just teasing ya Mr. Creative Insider 

Nah, one review (K7XX) is enough. I do enough writing for my classes, as is.

Battlefront does make me feel like I'm in the battles from the movies, but it is barebones and casual as hell compared to DICE's Battlefield games. You actually might like it, I think. Never played the first two Battlefronts. I didn't play many games in the PS2 era, and when I did it was only competitive sports games against my friends.


----------



## Fegefeuer

the "headphone surround" to line out/optical feature needs to come to the X7. Damn. 
  
  
 by the Evshrugist


----------



## DagsJT

Decided to take a chance and buy the G5. Especially when the discount code BLASTG5 knocks £40 off the price


----------



## diancecht

Can anyone recommend a really good pair of wireless headphones? I want them primarily for gaming (not bothered about built-in mic as I only play single player) so would like them to have a really good soundstage and be comfortable as I'll be using them most of the time. I'll also use them for everything else, youtube, movies etc... I've been looking at the sennheiser R180's but I wondered if there was anything better around that price range?


----------



## Fegefeuer

RS 185 are the best in their pricerange.


----------



## diancecht

Thanks for the recommendation, I don't mind paying slightly more if there are better ones out there though


----------



## Fegefeuer

do you live in Europe?
  
 currently cheapest@Amazon.FR
  
 http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B00STNU2VW/?tag=curiua00-21


----------



## kellte2

dagsjt said:


> Confirmation from Creative on Twitter:
> 
> @CreativeLabs: Virtual surround for both. Consoles are stereo virtual surround. Pc is native 7.1 virtual surround.




Someone care to explain the difference? Native "virtual" surround seems to be contradictory. I was always under the impression that my Mixamp did stereo virtual surround, so if the G5 is capable of this, then that's all I'm really looking for.


----------



## Fegefeuer

PC: 7.1 input --> "binaural" stereo (just like your mixamp only in 7.1 and using SBX instead of DHP)
 PS4/XBoxO only 2.0 input possible -> weirdoid stereo
  
 if you are on consoles and want VS then ignore the G5.


----------



## Sam21

diancecht said:


> Can anyone recommend a really good pair of wireless headphones? I want them primarily for gaming (not bothered about built-in mic as I only play single player) so would like them to have a really good soundstage and be comfortable as I'll be using them most of the time. I'll also use them for everything else, youtube, movies etc... I've been looking at the sennheiser R180's but I wondered if there was anything better around that price range?


 
  
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRHW700DS-9-1-Channel-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B00J0XR10A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449853616&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+9.1+wireless


----------



## Sanctuary

sam21 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDRHW700DS-9-1-Channel-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B00J0XR10A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449853616&sr=8-1&keywords=sony+9.1+wireless


 

 I've owned those for a year now, and if you are wanting headphones that provide good channel seperation, stay _far_ away from them.  Actually, they are all around just kind of bad.  They aren't good for listening to music, and even if you want to use them for non competitive gaming immersion, they actually destroy immersion depending on the game.  The closest comparison I can make with those would be to the Tritton AX Pro (trash tier) in terms of surround sound. 
  
 The "center" speaker has no projection at all and is more inside your head than what you'd get with most IEMs and the rears very often get mixed up with the fronts.  I don't believe they are any good for movies either, but some people seem to think they are great (I guess because either due to hearing differences, or they just haven't heard many other options).
  
 The only reason I purchased them in the first place too was for the WiiU due to it only having HDMI for audio out unless playing in 2ch stereo through the pad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like the wording 'stereo surround'. One can argue that it means they'll be using pseudo surround from 2 channels, ala expanded stereo, which is crap.

Or it meaning the Creative equivalent of Dolby Pro Logic II version of Dolby Headphone, which is fine, but lacking compared to Dolby Digital conversion.

They need to clarify, and quickly.


----------



## Vader2k

mad lust envy said:


> Well, you're more inclined to tweak the audio filles to get those older modes on your games, right?
> 
> What I'm saying is that for some reason, the virtual surround processing seems to do better at emulating surround when it's being fed literal Dolby Digital, as opposed to whatever method these soundcards use to decode PCM and convert to Dolby Headphone, and SBX. Like for example, I can literallpy compare the same game on the PS4 and Steam. The PS4 has Dolby, my PC is doing multi channel PCM. The PS4 surround will be better.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Do you think the same could be said about the Marantz?  I always have the PS4 set on 7.1 PCM over HDMI to the Marantz, and then I use DH on there.  I've noticed that the Xbox 360, which only sends DD over HDMI, the DH processing sounds a bit more open and airy by comparison.  I realize I can just try changing the PS4 output to be DD over HDMI and see if it changes anything, but curious on your thoughts all the same.


----------



## rudyae86

What a let down of the G5.............Seems like I might have to opt for the X7 instead. Hmmmm


----------



## Vader2k

mad lust envy said:


> Got the PX95 yesterday. I expected them to sound identical to the PMX95 save for slight clamp/fit differences, but the PX95 is a bit too warm/boomy in comparison. Soundstage is definitely more restricted as a result. I would certainly choose the KSC35/Sportapro instead and the Parts express headband if I wanted this style of headphone.
> 
> The PX95 is too warm and too mid bassy than I prefer, while the PMX95 stayed true to the Sennheiser sound with a warm+balanced+slight bass tilt which sounds cleaner and more audiophile friendly.
> 
> It's not bad, but definitely don't have a place for it now.


 
  
 Oh, by the way MLE, I finally received the PMX95 and PX95 recently and your findings were completely on point.  I was shocked by how apparent the difference was between the two!  I'm really liking the PMX95, though; everything gels really nicely.  My wife ended up taking the PX95 as she didn't mind the extra bass and I've ordered a SportaPro and Parts Express headband to use as my workout phones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

vader2k said:


> Oh, by the way MLE, I finally received the PMX95 and PX95 recently and your findings were completely on point.  I was shocked by how apparent the difference was between the two!  I'm really liking the PMX95, though; everything gels really nicely.  My wife ended up taking the PX95 as she didn't mind the extra bass and I've ordered a SportaPro and Parts Express headband to use as my workout phones.




So glad you're liking it.

I dunno why, but I haven't used it since the first few days. I guess the neckband design appeals more to me when it's COMPLETELY wireless, and I've been using the KSC35 instead :/

But glad that my impressions were on point. The PX95 has this boominess that isn't on the PMX95. Like when a guy talks, it sounds like you're listing to a boombox through the wall. Boomy.

I wish I could take the PMX95 drivers and put them into the KSC35 shell.


----------



## kellte2

rudyae86 said:


> What a let down of the G5.............Seems like I might have to opt for the X7 instead. Hmmmm




It is definitely a bummer. Likely just gonna ride out my Mixamp Pro 2013 and M-Stage, as I don't need a lot of the X7s features.


----------



## Fegefeuer

the only thing I really see right now is the chance that the X7 can get updated to offer the LO/Optical headphone mode feature which the G5 has. 
  
 The 150 Dollar product has it now, why not the 399-499 one?


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> I'm starting to think some people just don't understand what I mean by better surround, not better SIGNAL. I'm pretty well aware that PCM is technically less compressed than Dolby Digital. All that means nothing if the surround algorithms do a better job converting a specific audio type over the other.


 
  
 I hope you realize that you can't even send higher than 2ch PCM (LPCM) over toslink. PCM isn't just "less" compressed either, it's not compressed at all.  Reading the manual shows that the U3 outputs both Dobly Digital and PCM, but when you select PCM through the Asus menu, it's only two channel.  You pick that or Dolby Digital Live, which is a conversion to a multichannel format that's not technically a default Dolby Digital track.
  
 So in the end, you're doing an apples to oranges comparison and claiming that Dolby Headphone just sounds better on consoles.  It sounds better with the gear you currently have is all.


----------



## diancecht

fegefeuer said:


> RS 185 are the best in their pricerange.


 
 So the sennheiser R185 & Sony MDRHW700DS are the best in price range for wireless headphones? what about the Sennheiser R180, they seem to have good reviews. Do the RS185's built in dac make a lot of difference when using it for gaming and general use on pc? I would be connecting them up to my motherboards on-board sound card, think its realtek's ALC1150 audio codec.


----------



## raband

Am using the RS185 with optical in using the "what you hear" from the X7 and I really like it.
 Volume control on the can sure beats having to move closer to the X7 to adjust the sound levels.
  
 RCA from an audio DAC/AMP for music, or using the optical if I want to take advantage of the SBX effects.
  
 Less soundstage than the 598's/700's but has an extra boominess and immersiveness.
  
 It does feel more like a closed headphone on the head and gets a lot warmer than the other two, but for cable free gaming or music it's a bloody good unit.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> the only thing I really see right now is the chance that the X7 can get updated to offer the LO/Optical headphone mode feature which the G5 has.
> 
> The 150 Dollar product has it now, why not the 399-499 one?


 
 They have to....like they MUST!
  
 Or there will be many people complaining....well at least around here from people that have costly DACs and Amps.


----------



## Yethal

Vali 2 released. Go get your wallets.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Vali 2 released. Go get your wallets.


 

 Vali 2 released. No need to rush.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sanctuary said:


> I hope you realize that you can't even send higher than 2ch PCM (LPCM) over toslink. PCM isn't just "less" compressed either, it's not compressed at all.  Reading the manual shows that the U3 outputs both Dobly Digital and PCM, but when you select PCM through the Asus menu, it's only two channel.  You pick that or Dolby Digital Live, which is a conversion to a multichannel format that's not technically a default Dolby Digital track.
> 
> So in the end, you're doing an apples to oranges comparison and claiming that Dolby Headphone just sounds better on consoles.  It sounds better with the gear you currently have is all.




Jesus Christ. I'm done trying to explain over and over. I'm done, seriously. You win.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Vali 2 released. No need to rush.



But...but... it's so beautiful.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> But...but... it's so beautiful.



/me hands over a box of tissues


The Vali 2 is here to stay, so... yeah, no need to rush. However, I did feel the first Vali sounded better than it had a right to at it's cost: it's obviously with the Magni as the gateway drug to Schiit's lineup, but it actually provides a "musicality" and "refinement" improvement over computer/smartphone amps, instead of going for "OOH Tyuuubes!" effect of other cheap tube amps where you trade for coloration at the cost of bloom and muddied detail. Sounded like a "real" tube amp to me, more linear but also articulate with that sense of realism or natural tone, closer to my $200 tube amp than it had a right to.

My tube amp does sound better though, and my friend who had bought the Vali later found it had developed an annoying persistent ringing sound, had to be sent in to be fixed (which they did, for the cost of shipping I believe).





diancecht said:


> So the sennheiser R185 & Sony MDRHW700DS are the best in price range for wireless headphones? what about the Sennheiser R180, they seem to have good reviews. Do the RS185's built in dac make a lot of difference when using it for gaming and general use on pc? I would be connecting them up to my motherboards on-board sound card, think its realtek's ALC1150 audio codec.



I highly recommend connecting the RS185's base station to your computer via optical, not RCA if you can help it.
Computer converts the audio from digital to analog for RCA, RS185 converts the analog back to digital (ADC) and compresses it to send wirelessly, then the RS185 headphone must digital to analog convert (DAC) so you can get sound... Three conversions (with small distortions added at each conversion), but a digital connection to the RS185 base will only have one conversion at the end.
I say a better DAC is worth it in a wireless headphone, since it's built-in there's no way to upgrade it later without buying a whole different headphone.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> /me hands over a box of tissues
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Been reading on this during the day....and man....my wallet is so hurt right now, I really dont know what to do....
  
 to buy or not to buy....that is the question.
  
 Anywyas.....
  
 Do you think the Vali 2 would be a great starting point and jump into tube amps?
  
 I have been looking for tube amps since the beginning of the year but kind of lost some interest since I was very undecided about what I really wanted, hence I run a Modi 2 Uber and Cayin C5 out of my Asus DG optical out.
  
 Or should I save up and do something better?
  
 Not thinking about now but more later....since the Vali 2 will be around for quite a while.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The charm of the Vali for me was the fact that the tubes it had were rated for basically forever, and I didn't have to stress about which tubes are better. Set it and forget it.

Vali 2 is now just gonna be yet another tube amp with varied tube lifespan, and the ever persistent need to find the best tubes. The charm of the Vali is gone.

I wish they would've improved on the Vali, and not make yet another standard tube amp. Oh well.


----------



## MattKelly

I'm so disappointed that the G5 won't truly decode console surround. I'm not looking for an SBX processed stereo signal! So now I guess it's back to Astro. I've got the K7XX with a ModMic on it, and I'm assuming that the MixAmp TR alone won't be near enough to power that setup? So now I have to pick an extra amp to pair with my K7XX and a MixAmp TR. I'm trying to keep things affordable, and since I'll be using it at LAN's, portability would be nice (but to be honest it's not that big of a deal to just drop a desktop amp in my backpack, haha). Any opinions on a complimentary amp for this K7XX/MixAmp TR setup? Again, the focus is entirely on positional sound for competitive gaming.


----------



## shuto77

mattkelly said:


> I'm so disappointed that the G5 won't truly decode console surround. I'm not looking for an SBX processed stereo signal! So now I guess it's back to Astro. I've got the K7XX with a ModMic on it, and I'm assuming that the MixAmp TR alone won't be near enough to power that setup? So now I have to pick an extra amp to pair with my K7XX and a MixAmp TR. I'm trying to keep things affordable, and since I'll be using it at LAN's, portability would be nice (but to be honest it's not that big of a deal to just drop a desktop amp in my backpack, haha). Any opinions on a complimentary amp for this K7XX/MixAmp TR setup? Again, the focus is entirely on positional sound for competitive gaming.




What's your price range? I love my Oppo HA-2 at $300. It's a Dac/amp combo, which is overkill for your purposes, but awesome if you want to connect your phone to one device and have a killer portable rig. 

The Fiio E11 Mont Blanc is well regarded, cheap and very powerful. The Sound Blaster E5 is also a wonderful device at $200, but considered not quite as good as the Oppo.


----------



## MattKelly

shuto77 said:


> What's your price range? I love my Oppo HA-2 at $300. It's a Dac/amp combo, which is overkill for your purposes, but awesome if you want to connect your phone to one device and have a killer portable rig.
> 
> The Fiio E11 Mont Blanc is well regarded, cheap and very powerful. The Sound Blaster E5 is also a wonderful device at $200, but considered not quite as good as the Oppo.


 
 Well, I was looking to get just the G5 with my promo code and come in at the $100-$150 price range. Now that it's not what I expected I have to get a MixAmp instead, as well as the external amp. The priority is the MixAmp TR, so I'm literally trying to keep the amp as cheap as possible. I just need to make sure I can power the K7XX and ModMic - not looking for anything extra beyond that.


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> Well, I was looking to get just the G5 with my promo code and come in at the $100-$150 price range. Now that it's not what I expected I have to get a MixAmp instead, as well as the external amp. The priority is the MixAmp TR, so I'm literally trying to keep the amp as cheap as possible. I just need to make sure I can power the K7XX and ModMic - not looking for anything extra beyond that.




Fiio E12? It's got enough power for the AKG and has a battery.


----------



## Change is Good

Matt, I use just the mixamp 5.8 with the K7XX so you should be fine. If you really want an amp to get that extra 'umph' for gaming, the FiiO E12 and Cayin C5 are viable options for compact, yet powerful, portable amps.


----------



## shuto77

mattkelly said:


> Well, I was looking to get just the G5 with my promo code and come in at the $100-$150 price range. Now that it's not what I expected I have to get a MixAmp instead, as well as the external amp. The priority is the MixAmp TR, so I'm literally trying to keep the amp as cheap as possible. I just need to make sure I can power the K7XX and ModMic - not looking for anything extra beyond that.




Gotcha. I will defer to the group, but I'd look at the Fiio E12 or the E5 if you can get a deal with a coupon. I'm sure someone here has tried either or both with the Mixamp. 

I agree that the Mixamp can't power the K7Xx from experience. 

Good luck!


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> Fiio E12? It's got enough power for the AKG and has a battery.


 
  
  


change is good said:


> Matt, I use just the mixamp 5.8 with the K7XX so you should be fine. If you really want an amp to get that extra 'umph' for gaming, the FiiO E12 and Cayin C5 are viable options for compact, yet powerful, portable amps.


 
  
  


shuto77 said:


> Gotcha. I will defer to the group, but I'd look at the Fiio E12 or the E5 if you can get a deal with a coupon. I'm sure someone here has tried either or both with the Mixamp.
> 
> I agree that the Mixamp can't power the K7Xx from experience.
> 
> Good luck!


 

 Thank you for all the feedback, guys! I'll definitely look into the E12 a bit more. I am conflicted now, though... because Change says the MixAmp alone might be enough to power the K7XX and shuto says otherwise!


----------



## henhowc

i have an x2 and dss1. wanted a better chat option over plugging in earbuds to the ds4 and using the inline mic (seems like they all suck equally in mic quality. i.e. apple earphones = ps4 mono earbud) but I also don't want any extra wires going beyond the living room. what are my options in terms of least complicated setup?
  
 would i need something like a mixamp 5.8 and boompro/modmic?


----------



## Yethal

henhowc said:


> i have an x2 and dss1. wanted a better chat option over plugging in earbuds to the ds4 and using the inline mic (seems like they all suck equally in mic quality. i.e. apple earphones = ps4 mono earbud) but I also don't want any extra wires going beyond the living room. what are my options in terms of least complicated setup?
> 
> would i need something like a mixamp 5.8 and boompro/modmic?




BoomPro and a small usb soundcard. Plug the soundcard into the dss usb input then plug the mic into the soundcard. Check the photo gallery in this thread there are seome setup diagrams.


----------



## henhowc

oye...so no way around all the wires with what i got huh. just having the one going from headphone to dss bugs me right now. lol
  
 are the cheap neweer/hde lapel mics going to be an upgrade on the inline mics on earphones? if so maybe ill just get one of those.


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> Thank you for all the feedback, guys! I'll definitely look into the E12 a bit more. I am conflicted now, though... because Change says the MixAmp alone might be enough to power the K7XX and shuto says otherwise!



Buy the AKG and the Mixamp and see how they sound. If it's not good enough then add an amp.


----------



## Change is Good

mattkelly said:


> Thank you for all the feedback, guys! I'll definitely look into the E12 a bit more. I am conflicted now, though... because Change says the MixAmp alone might be enough to power the K7XX and shuto says otherwise!


 
  


yethal said:


> Buy the AKG and the Mixamp and see how they sound. If it's not good enough then add an amp.


 
  
 ^ +1
  
 We all hear different, so Yethal's advice would be the logical first step. I, personally, used to swear by needing an extra amp when I had the Q701, Annie, and K712 with both the mixamp 2013 and Recon 3D. Either my hearing is now better trained, the K7XX is easier to drive, or the 5.8 has slightly more volume power. Or all three...


----------



## Yethal

Did another mod to my 598. This time I cut the plastic grill from inside the cups. Not sure if they can be further improved, I certainly hope so since I try really hard not to spend all my money on more gear but want to upgrade my setup at the same time.


----------



## jthom320

I had a couple questions for you guys.
  
 So I own a pair of HD598s and a midmic for my ps4.  Currently using a splitter and hooking them both up to my controller.  Recently purchased a mix amp TR for surround it's in the mail as I write this.
  
 I'm wondering if I'd get anything more out of these if I bought an external amp to chain with my mix amp pro?  I've heard conflicting things about amps and the 598's with some saying little to no difference and some saying I'll get a decent boost.
  
 My other question is what in you all's opinion would be the best upgrade for my 598's in the 300 dollar range?  For both positional audio and "fun" factor.  I realize there might not be a set that will check both boxes as I've been told the 598's are amongst the best available for surround although you guys are free to correct me on that assumption.  Budget is not hard and fast here.  If there is something close to 400 that's amazeballs I can go up.  300 would be ideal however.
  
 Also any amp recommendations would be awesome.  I'd be using it with the mix amp pro and a Macbook pro mostly so something that would work well with both and would allow me to use higher impedance headphones down the road would be ideal.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> I had a couple questions for you guys.
> 
> So I own a pair of HD598s and a midmic for my ps4.  Currently using a splitter and hooking them both up to my controller.  Recently purchased a mix amp TR for surround it's in the mail as I write this.
> 
> ...




Cut the grill off. That's a free soundstage upgrade right there. As for a 300$ upgrade, something akin to akg k712 should be fine.


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> Cut the grill off. That's a free soundstage upgrade right there. As for a 300$ upgrade, something akin to akg k712 should be fine.


 

 Appreciate the quick response.  I'm planning on continuing to use the 598's for the time being but I will look into the AKG's for when I get bored down the road.
  
 You have any opinion on whether or not an AMP would be beneficial to these headphones?  
  
 Probably not going to cut the grill off tbh.  Just don't want to cut up my headphones but I appreciate the tip.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> Appreciate the quick response.  I'm planning on continuing to use the 598's for the time being but I will look into the AKG's for when I get bored down the road.
> 
> You have any opinion on whether or not an AMP would be beneficial to these headphones?
> 
> Probably not going to cut the grill off tbh.  Just don't want to cut up my headphones but I appreciate the tip.




Additional amping always helps with the mixamp as it's internal amp wss designed to power low impedance gaming headsets. However if the volume is loud enough for You just use the 598 straight outta mixamp and save the money for something else.


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> Additional amping always helps with the mixamp as it's internal amp wss designed to power low impedance gaming headsets. However if the volume is loud enough for You just use the 598 straight outta mixamp and save the money for something else.


 
  
  
 The reason I asked about the amp is when i'm in party chat through my controller I can hear the headphones go down quite a bit in sound level.  Totally usable but the hit is there.
  
 Not really good on the audio terms but I'll report back on how everything sounds once I have it running for a few days and go from there.
  
 Appreciate the help.


----------



## Sam21

OK, so I am getting rid of some of my stuff because I am buying a desktop pc, Between DT990 and HE-400 which one would you sell ?
  
 The soundstage size is about the same imo but the 400s have better definition and separation , bass is more emphasized in 400s, 400s are sharp and stabbing when they reproduce vocals..I wonder what you people think...


----------



## Change is Good

Sell the one you like least.


----------



## venkman781

Has anyone had any experience with the newest Mixamp Pro TR? I'm considering picking one up but wondering if it's improved over the last gen model in terms of mic/sound quality.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> Sell the one you like least.




+1 

When you're talking about high quality gear in this price bracket, taste and ergonomics are king. 

The only other concern is how you plan on using. If you're downgrading your amp, keep the one that is easier to drive.


----------



## Change is Good

Man, I really dislike myself for not jumping on the SHP9500 when it was only $45-$50 a few months back. Huuuuuuhhhhhh....
  
 On a side note, the X2 is currently $199 at amazon. Someone jump on it and sell me their 9500 lol
  
*Edit:*
  
 Big shout out to the big homie Casper (@PETEREK) for the awesome job he just did for me. Pictured you will see the detachable mod using HMC connectors, stock cable re-terminated, and a custom adapter so that I may use my Boompro for gaming.
  

  


Spoiler: Detachable mod



 

  

  
  

  


  

  



Spoiler: Boompro adapter



 

  

  

  


  
 Feel free to contact him through his website https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheAudMod for any of your mod work. Dude is as awesome possum. Also, a link to some of his other work in the community...


----------



## FeedYourHead

Guys, I'm on ps4 and running the HD598 into the old DSS, mic is a cheap clipon, into a splitter, into controller, with chat audio "Output to TV or Amplifier" option enabled.
  
 The DSS drives these things crazy loud and distortion free, however when I play with friends, chat is so loud I have to turn everything way down, effectively meaning I can't soundwhore with friends.
  
 Changing the sound mix to Supercrunch (BO3) made the game louder, and helped a bit, but not enough.
  
 For some reason the chat volume adjust doesn't seem to work when this option is enabled.... what gives?
  
  
  
  
  
  
 Also, Yethal, I saw you post about modding the grills on the hd598... are you referring to cutting off the fabric, or the plastic underneath?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you heard the X00 yet, Change, or did you immediately had the cable modded before listening? I wanna know what your thoughts are on it.

FOR A SECOND, IT LOOKED LIKE THE OLD HIFIMAN SCREW ON CONNECTOR.


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Also, Yethal, I saw you post about modding the grills on the hd598... are you referring to cutting off the fabric, or the plastic underneath?



Both actually. A few months ago I cut the fabric from the cups and that alone was a big improvement. Yesterday I decided to take one step further and cut the grill as well. So far I'm pleased with the results.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Thanks, man. I've had these for years so I'm not above a bit of modding.



Anyone have a chat volume solution? There has to be quite a few here faced with the same problem...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Have you heard the X00 yet, Change, or did you immediately had the cable modded before listening? I wanna know what your thoughts are on it.
> 
> FOR A SECOND, IT LOOKED LIKE THE OLD HIFIMAN SCREW ON CONNECTOR.




No, not yet. They went straight to Casper so I can save on shipping. I went in on the blind, here, but am optimistic enough to know what to expect. Will def let you know my thoughts when they arrive.


----------



## conquerator2

feedyourhead said:


> Thanks, man. I've had these for years so I'm not above a bit of modding.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have a chat volume solution? There has to be quite a few here faced with the same problem...


 
 Hey, just use the HEKs 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 Plug a secondary amp into the Mixamp and go!
 It's an experience [well I am using a different device, but still 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




]


----------



## Sam21

I want to put K712 pro pads on my K702, but I can't find a place to buy them from...does anyone know where to buy them ?


----------



## Change is Good

sam21 said:


> I want to put K712 pro pads on my K702, but I can't find a place to buy them from...does anyone know where to buy them ?




AKG spare parts department


----------



## FeedYourHead

conquerator2 said:


> Hey, just use the HEKs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Hey, I tried googleing but I'm not sure what HEKs are. Also, I don't have a Mixamp, but a similar unit by Turtle Beach called the DSS.
  
 Thanks for trying to help, tho.
  
  
  
  
 Here's my original post, maybe that will help...
  
 "Guys, I'm on ps4 and running the HD598 into the old DSS, mic is a cheap clipon, into a splitter, into controller, with chat audio "Output to TV or Amplifier" option enabled.
  
 The DSS drives these things crazy loud and distortion free, however when I play with friends, chat is so loud I have to turn everything way down, effectively meaning I can't soundwhore with friends.
  
 Changing the sound mix to Supercrunch (BO3) made the game louder, and helped a bit, but not enough.
  
 For some reason the chat volume adjust doesn't seem to work when this option is enabled.... what gives?"


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Hey, I tried googleing but I'm not sure what HEKs are. Also, I don't have a Mixamp, but a similar unit by Turtle Beach called the DSS.
> 
> Thanks for trying to help, tho.
> 
> ...




Game and chat audio needs to be on two separate inputs (usb and optical) to work. Route your chat via usb and it will work fine.


----------



## FeedYourHead

Awesome! What would be the best way to plug my mic into a usb? Or do I need another mic? I have a Someone Meteorite usb mic... I tried that way back when I first got my ps4, but it was way to sensitive for chat... picked up the AC blowing, and the game sounds from my open-backed headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

If any of you AKG owners are interested in a spare coiled cable exactly like the one that comes with the K712, do shoot me a pm with an offer. Works with the Q701 and K7XX. I may also part with my boompro adapter.

Shipping off the K7XX, today. It will be dearly missed 

On the bright side, TH-X00 should be here by the weekend


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> On the bright side, TH-X00 should be here by the weekend


 
  
 that's what matters


----------



## conquerator2

feedyourhead said:


> Hey, I tried googleing but I'm not sure what HEKs are. Also, I don't have a Mixamp, but a similar unit by Turtle Beach called the DSS.
> 
> Thanks for trying to help, tho.
> 
> ...




Aah, nevermind!
I mistook your avatar for someoneelse's.
Sorry


----------



## rudyae86

G5 is now available in the US of A.... But I'm still not getting it.... Smh


----------



## wadec22

rudyae86 said:


> G5 is now available in the US of A.... But I'm still not getting it.... Smh


 
 saw that.  rumor is no DD for ps4 though.  anyone confirm that?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Creative did via Twitter.


----------



## wadec22

fegefeuer said:


> Creative did via Twitter.


 
 can you link?  just went through sound blaster account and creative labs twitter account post histories and don't see it anywhere.  Not doubting you, I just can't find it and wanted to read the details myself.
  
 *UPDATE - never mind.  saw they said consoles is stereo virtual 7.1 surround. :/


----------



## inseconds99

Does the G5 support chat on ps4 and Xbox one?


----------



## brenttw

Hmm so would the new astro mixamp tr be a better choice than the new G5?


----------



## rudyae86

wadec22 said:


> saw that.  rumor is no DD for ps4 though.  anyone confirm that?



Yeah. No dd....... 

Booooooooo


----------



## Yethal

brenttw said:


> Hmm so would the new astro mixamp tr be a better choice than the new G5?



Unless Creative adds DD/DTS via firmware update it seems that the mixamp might be a better option as far as surround quality goes. Sound quality wise the G5 wins.


----------



## Fiscopath

I stumbled on this thread after just buying the Philips X2/27 Fidelio when they were on sale at Amazon and wanting to get them setup with my Xbox One.  I've been researching the* v*irtual sound devices and just wondering if anyone has been a test mule for this china made model?
  
 http://www.gearbest.com/speakers/pp_75414.html?currency=USD&gclid=CKSG1v3M3skCFQ6SfgodAfAMWw


----------



## venkman781

yethal said:


> Unless Creative adds DD/DTS via firmware update it seems that the mixamp might be a better option as far as surround quality goes. Sound quality wise the G5 wins.


 
  
 It's unlikely that Creative will license DD/DTS (due to having their own proprietary SBX surround algorithm), so I'm thinking the Mixamp/DSS/Recon3D are still the better options for portable DSPs if positional cues are more of a priority than sound quality.
  
 The marketing strategy for the BlasterX line is pretty squarely targeted on the eSports scene from what I've seen, so it doesn't surprise me that the console market is seeming to come as an afterthought. Despite the odd connectivity options for consoles, it remains to be seen what the device can actually do, so we'll have to wait and see what we learn from reviews.


----------



## Yethal

venkman781 said:


> It's unlikely that Creative will license DD/DTS (due to having their own proprietary SBX surround algorithm), so I'm thinking the Mixamp/DSS/Recon3D are still the better options for portable DSPs if positional cues are more of a priority than sound quality.
> 
> The marketing strategy for the BlasterX line is pretty squarely targeted on the eSports scene from what I've seen, so it doesn't surprise me that the console market is seeming to come as an afterthought. Despite the odd connectivity options for consoles, it remains to be seen what the device can actually do, so we'll have to wait and see what we learn from reviews.




DD/DTS - audio codecs used for transmitting 5.1 sound over toslink
SBX - virtual surround algorithm
Two entirely different things.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SBX needs Dolby Digital to do virtual surround properly on consoles...



feedyourhead said:


> Hey, I tried googleing but I'm not sure what HEKs are. Also, I don't have a Mixamp, but a similar unit by Turtle Beach called the DSS.
> 
> Thanks for trying to help, tho.
> 
> ...




HEK Hifiman HE-1000

K = 1000

NBA 2K16 = NBA 2016...

Just as an example...


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> DD/DTS - audio codecs used for transmitting 5.1 sound over toslink
> SBX - virtual surround algorithm
> Two entirely different things.


 
  
 yep
  
 I've been thinking about how they could add DTS to the X7 via a firmware that requires payment (as DTS costs extra license which is probably not covered by having bought the X7). Update tool connecting to Creative's server via a encrypted connection to download the data to the X7 with encrypted cache and writing the firmware from there?
  
 Just a quick thought. I know we'll never get DTS.


----------



## venkman781

yethal said:


> DD/DTS - audio codecs used for transmitting 5.1 sound over toslink
> SBX - virtual surround algorithm
> Two entirely different things


 
  
 Appreciate the clarification.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> yep
> 
> I've been thinking about how they could add DTS to the X7 via a firmware that requires payment (as DTS costs extra license which is probably not covered by having bought the X7). Update tool connecting to Creative's server via a encrypted connection to download the data to the X7 with encrypted cache and writing the firmware from there?
> 
> Just a quick thought. I know we'll never get DTS.



Firmware would still had to be decrypted in ram as I doubt the X7 hasxan encryption chip onboard. From there amemory dump and the job is halfway done.


----------



## FeedYourHead

feedyourhead said:


> Awesome! What would be the best way to plug my mic into a usb? Or do I need another mic? I have a Someone Meteorite usb mic... I tried that way back when I first got my ps4, but it was way to sensitive for chat... picked up the AC blowing, and the game sounds from my open-backed headphones.


 
  
 Just wanted to add that my buddy has the exact same setup, except he bought the SHP9500's.
 So if anyone could help me figure this out you'd be helping both of us.
  
 Yethal, I see in your sig that you have the Modmic 4.0... are you routing that thru usb somehow, or is usb routing only necessary when using the DSS?
  
  
  
 Honestly, I'm not really clear on how using a different mic (if that's what you mean by usb routing) is going to let me turn down the chat volume, but you guys have way more experience than me, I'm sure.


----------



## wadec22

fiscopath said:


> I stumbled on this thread after just buying the Philips X2/27 Fidelio when they were on sale at Amazon and wanting to get them setup with my Xbox One.  I've been researching the* v*irtual sound devices and just wondering if anyone has been a test mule for this china made model?
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/speakers/pp_75414.html?currency=USD&gclid=CKSG1v3M3skCFQ6SfgodAfAMWw


 
 Not that I'm aware of, but for console it's going to be virtual surround based off a stereo signal, so it's still inferior to mixamp.


----------



## burritoboy9984

We need Turtle Beach to start talking about the TAC again.


----------



## Yethal

feedyourhead said:


> Just wanted to add that my buddy has the exact same setup, except he bought the SHP9500's.
> So if anyone could help me figure this out you'd be helping both of us.
> 
> Yethal, I see in your sig that you have the Modmic 4.0... are you routing that thru usb somehow, or is usb routing only necessary when using the DSS?
> ...



My modmic is plugged into my X7 and from there the X7 is paired via BT with a usb dongle plugged into ps4.
Ascfor the DSS and usb routing. Dss doesn't have a mic input. It does however have usb passthrough on the front of the device. So, buy a cheap soundacr like the Syba audio (3$ IIRC) plug it into the usb slot and then plug the mic into the adapter. There was a connection diagram for that setup somewhere in the gallery. As for the usb routing in general it just means connecting the mic in such a way that it communicates with the source device via usb.


----------



## JAMBOX

yethal said:


> My modmic is plugged into my X7 and from there the X7 is paired via BT with a usb dongle plugged into ps4.
> Ascfor the DSS and usb routing. Dss doesn't have a mic input. It does however have usb passthrough on the front of the device. So, buy a cheap soundacr like the Syba audio (3$ IIRC) plug it into the usb slot and then plug the mic into the adapter. There was a connection diagram for that setup somewhere in the gallery. As for the usb routing in general it just means connecting the mic in such a way that it communicates with the source device via usb.




Glad to see that's working I went with the USB soundcard route but I guessed that way would work too.
What dongle you using, not all of them will work with the ps4, creatives own?
How is the quality.

I think it would be useful to people to compile a list of working dongles and usb soundcards. It would be cool if MLE could host it in Op. What do yah think??

I can confirm that the creative play2 works for ps4, that's working with my x7 setup, chat out ->x7 line in, mic straight in. Didn't trust the Syba, on UK Amazon there are comments of it frying electronics, don't know if people picked up fakes from different sellers not worth the risk.


----------



## Yethal

jambox said:


> Glad to see that's working I went with the USB soundcard route but I guessed that way would work too.
> What dongle you using, not all of them will work with the ps4, creatives own?
> How is the quality.
> 
> ...



I use the Creative BT-W2 dongle. I even posted a mini review of it a few months back (which can be boiled down to: awesome but not for 40$). Every bluetooth dongle that shows up in Windows as audio device and not a bluetooth adapter should work. As far as I know every usb soundcard that doesn't require a proprietary driver will work with the x7.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If someone wants me to make a list of things for the guide, you can make one, I'll paste it on the first page, and give you the credit.

Don't expect too many updates to the guide by my hand anymore. You guys have become quite a community that can stand on it's legs without me, and I'd love to give someone some OP privileges for some non-headphone review updates to the guide, but it'd be hard, since there are so many of you I would do that for.


----------



## Evshrug

^we love ya too Mad!


----------



## Yethal

We can add some connection diagrams to the guide explaining how to hook up all those devices together alongside screenshots with audio settings. It would be much easier to explain it using diagrams than words. I can make some when I get a new gpu (my current one died and I'm stuck with my phone only).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sure. Just leave me a private message for those things.

On another note, I miss my HE-400....and vegan non-fazor LCD2. I need a full bodied planar with big, air moving drivers in my life.

Funny how now I can't find a new HE-400 to go back to for the 73894731289th time. Feels bad man.


----------



## Evshrug

You've only had the HE-400 like... Twice, right? I think there was someone in this thread a few days ago looking to possibly sell theirs.


----------



## venkman781

yethal said:


> ...Ascfor the DSS and usb routing. Dss doesn't have a mic input. It does however have usb passthrough on the front of the device. So, buy a cheap soundacr like the Syba audio (3$ IIRC) plug it into the usb slot and then plug the mic into the adapter. There was a connection diagram for that setup somewhere in the gallery. As for the usb routing in general it just means connecting the mic in such a way that it communicates with the source device via usb.


 
  
 Sorry for the noob question - does the DSS passthrough with the Syba plug allow you to do voice chat over USB and still have surround over optical on the PS4? I recently picked up the Sennheiser Game One headset to pair with the DSS (and eventually a mixamp or G5) but wasn't sure if there was a workaround for voice chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, was it just twice? I could swear it was three times, I dunno.

I want them new. HE-400 QC was never the best, and I don't wanna risk it by going with a used pair, especially when people go nuts with mods, which I don't wanna do. All I need for them is some 1540 Alcantara pads and I'm golden. I think I sold my last pair of pads, sadly.

I see a pair I may buy though.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> I use the Creative BT-W2 dongle. I even posted a mini review of it a few months back (which can be boiled down to: awesome but not for 40$). Every bluetooth dongle that shows up in Windows as audio device and not a bluetooth adapter should work. As far as I know every usb soundcard that doesn't require a proprietary driver will work with the x7.


 
 So the BT-w2 dongle pluggs into the ps4 and connects to the X7 via bluetooth and you use it for the chat function and you set the audio out to optical for sound through the optical in on the x7? How does one access that from the PS4 to connect to use the dongle and connect to the x7 and change all of the settings? Or do you use a PC to connect to sync the bt-w2 adapter to the x7 then plug it into the ps4?
  
 My goal is chat and sound through x7 to PS4. 
  
*EDIT: Found your post on the X7 guide on how to setup, disregard this message.*


----------



## Yethal

venkman781 said:


> Sorry for the noob question - does the DSS passthrough with the Syba plug allow you to do voice chat over USB and still have surround over optical on the PS4? I recently picked up the Sennheiser Game One headset to pair with the DSS (and eventually a mixamp or G5) but wasn't sure if there was a workaround for voice chat.



That would work, yes.



inseconds99 said:


> So the BT-w2 dongle pluggs into the ps4 and connects to the X7 via bluetooth and you use it for the chat function and you set the audio out to optical for sound through the optical in on the x7? How does one access that from the PS4 to connect to use the dongle and connect to the x7 and change all of the settings? Or do you use a PC to connect to sync the bt-w2 adapter to the x7 then plug it into the ps4?
> 
> My goal is chat and sound through x7 to PS4.
> 
> *EDIT: Found you post on the X7 guide on how to setup, disregard this message.*



Roger that, disregarding. Sorry, had to do that. I already had the post window open with both posts quoted and unquoting posts on mobile head-fi is kind of a bitch


----------



## Change is Good

I can relate with MLE about revisiting a headphone for a 2nd, 3rd time. He obviously loves that 400 bass and its an implanted memory for life. It's the same with me and that AKG soundstage. Always find myself going back...

Keep it, this time.


----------



## Evshrug

That Denon D7000 bass is also implanted in his memory... but obviously the HE400 is much lower priced!


----------



## inseconds99

evshrug said:


> That Denon D7000 bass is also implanted in his memory... but obviously the HE400 is much lower priced!


 
 THX00 time then LOL
  
 Also, just purchase my Fidelio X2, so sorry the first time I returned it but happy that I got it back during the 1 day sale on amazon as it turned out to be cheaper then when I first bought them used through amazon.


----------



## Evshrug

I think Mad still has his X2, and half of another one. Some support and customer service issues over an extended time period.

I think Mad turned his nose up on the TH-X00 because they reduced the bass comparative to the TH-600 and 900. Also the TH-X00 is closed and not available for sale right now, lol.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> That Denon D7000 bass is also implanted in his memory... but obviously the HE400 is much lower priced!




I can only wish I get to experience HD800 soundstage, some day, as it probably would leave a similar life changing effect on me. But, yeah, I was considering price range in my analogy but forgot to mention it. I am very much familiar with his long time fondness of the Denon bass, and more recently Fostex.


----------



## Evshrug

I can only HIGHLY recommend attending a head-fi meet. Canjam, homebrew, something in-between sponsored by a store, it's all good! Sampling a big breadth of headphones and related gear has an interesting effect... You'd think it would make you want to immediately jump to an HE-1000 or LCD4, drop a couple thousand on some TOTL gear, but instead you really zero in on your preferences, and perhaps have an easier time deciding that you would still be just as happy with something more moderately priced.

That said, I do really want a Mr. Speakers Ether... and that's a flagship & +$1000, but I'd probably still be happy with a PM-2, HE-400i (didn't get to spend enough time with this), or even something from 1964 Ears (sounded so good, even the cheapest universal!!). The HD800 was very good and surprised me how even it was, but it was lightly modded, and when I heard the Ether later I heard more of what I personally wanted. I'd still take an HD800, it gave me chills and shocked me how good it was and fun to listen to, but it still doesn't sound like speakers located several feet away... That kind of soundstage doesn't matter as much to me anymore, as much as imaging (being able to tell where things are placed), crisp separation where I can hear every instrument played, and still being engaging and fun.


----------



## Change is Good

There was a mini meet at Livesoundwave in Orlando this past summer but I was unable to attend. I will definitely be going to the next.


----------



## inseconds99

Def going to the next New York meet. Couldn't make it last year as I was on vacation, won't miss it this year.


----------



## conquerator2

evshrug said:


> I can only HIGHLY recommend attending a head-fi meet. Canjam, homebrew, something in-between sponsored by a store, it's all good! Sampling a big breadth of headphones and related gear has an interesting effect... You'd think it would make you want to immediately jump to an HE-1000 or LCD4, drop a couple thousand on some TOTL gear, *but instead you really zero in on your preferences, and perhaps have an easier time deciding that you would still be just as happy with something more moderately priced.*
> 
> That said, I do really want a Mr. Speakers Ether... and that's a flagship & +$1000, but I'd probably still be happy with a PM-2, HE-400i (didn't get to spend enough time with this), or even something from 1964 Ears (sounded so good, even the cheapest universal!!). The HD800 was very good and surprised me how even it was, but it was lightly modded, and when I heard the Ether later I heard more of what I personally wanted. I'd still take an HD800, it gave me chills and shocked me how good it was and fun to listen to, but it still doesn't sound like speakers located several feet away... That kind of soundstage doesn't matter as much to me anymore, as much as imaging (being able to tell where things are placed), crisp separation where I can hear every instrument played, and still being engaging and fun.


 
 Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah... Or you'll wish you didn't go


----------



## dragosto

Heeey,

 I just got into the headphone world with my X2s and im looking for compatibility with my ps4, but i also want to be able to use whatever i get for the ps4 on my laptop so i can eliminate the background hiss and not so optimal clarity and SQ from my crappy laptop.

 Right now im opting to buy the mixamp pro 2015 and see how it sounds with my X2 and later decide if i need an amp.
 Is the mixamp pro 2015 edition just as hissy as the 2013 version? and how does the TR compare?

 My main purpose is gaming/movies(netflix) on ps4 and then music/movies on pc. My next question is: is the dolby processing from the mixamp a benefit(i know it is in games thats why i dont ask) in movies (with an extra amp attached)? Or would a magni/modi combo be just as immersive if i plug these in my ps4? Would i even be able to plug a modi into my ps4?

 if the magni and modi are just as immersive, would a schiit fulla or any other usb amp/dac for budgetary reasons also be good option to plug into the ps4 and PC? And how would this sound compared to mixamp + amp on ps4?

 Is the mixamp pro 2015 a reasonable DAC to be used in conjuction with a magni for PC?
 Right now im hearing background hiss and a not so clear sound with the X2 directly connected to my crappy laptop. So would that atleast be eliminated with the mixamp 2015?

 Sorry for all these questions. I only have around 200 euros for these devices, so i cant get them all and i need to see whats best for my usage. So i have to make a choice between:


 mixamp + any amp
 schiit stack (or any other)
 USB amp/dac


 Keep in mind that I primarily use the ps4, but i also want to be able to use on the laptop if i want to listen to some music and an occasional film. But movies and gaming on ps4 are the most important.

 If the dolby processing is not worth it then i would really lean towards a cheap USB amp/dac.

 Help would be much appreciated


----------



## Sonikku13

For details and soundwhoring, would the AKG Q701 be better than the Audio-Technica AD900X? I'm curious, as people would think I'm crazy if I buy the Sennheiser HD800. So I'm looking cheaper.
  
 I already own the Audio-Technica AD900X, so would it even be worth upgrading?


----------



## Sam21

I wouldn't recommend the HD800 for gaming as well because headphones only live once, not twice or more. the AKG cans are said to have the widest soundstage and imaging after HD800. be aware though that the bumps on Q701's headband is a comfort issue, I think you are better off buying a K7XX off massdrop if it is posted on their website again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> That Denon D7000 bass is also implanted in his memory... but obviously the HE400 is much lower priced!




Don't forget, I don't wanna deal with those pads. The HE-400 pairs up well with the 1540 pads or velours. Also, I really, really just want the planar sound. It's the HE400 or vegan non-fazor LCD2, which is a bit out of my price range these days.


----------



## Change is Good

If the 400 is already bright up top with its stock pads, wouldn't it make them somewhat ear piercing with velours? The alcantaras, on the other hand, yeah they should pair very well... might even take the treble slightly, I would believe.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> If the 400 is already bright up top with its stock pads, wouldn't it make them somewhat ear piercing with velours? The alcantaras, on the other hand, yeah they should pair very well... might even take the treble slightly, I would believe.




The velours on the HE-400 are interesting, because while it makes the HE-400 airier and slightly brighter, it has less peaks in the treble, and brings up the upper midrange scoop that is problematic with the pleathers. Bringing up the upper mids, and having less upper peaks makes it a better headphone overall. The pleathers make the He-400 oddly dark, but with that massive peakiness in the treble, so it's hard to adjust to when the headphone sounds both dark and bright. At least with the velours, your ears expect a brighter sound, so it's not as jarring.

The changes were documented on that 'other' forum that no longer exists.

The Alcantaras sounded like a bridge between the pleather and velour, which was fine to me, and the comfiest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Top is pleather

Bottom is velour


As you can see, the mids were elevated, and 10khz and under were evened out. Anything above 10khz to me is pretty inconsequential and never an issue. It's 5khz through 10khz that can destroy ears if they're too elevated. The Upper range is a bit bright on the HE-400, which is still it's main issue, but it does everything else so well, the pros outweigh it's cons for me.


----------



## Change is Good

If the TH-X00 can pair up well enough to my liking with the alcantaras, that would be dreamy...


----------



## henhowc

noobie question...
  
 so i picked up one of those neweer lapel clip-on mics mentioned in the OP.
  
 my current setup is X2s -> DSS1 connected to PS4 via usb for power and optical for audio.
  
 what do i need  if i want to be able to plug the neweer mic directly into the DS4 and use it for chat in lieu of the mono earbud that came with the ps4? or is that type of setup not possible? i tried it as is but it won't detect the neweer mic as an input device.


----------



## Blze001

mad lust envy said:


> It's 5khz through 10khz that can destroy ears if they're too elevated.


 
  
 Did anyone else go into their EQ and knock these sliders down a few notches after reading this?


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> I can only HIGHLY recommend attending a head-fi meet. Canjam, homebrew, something in-between sponsored by a store, it's all good! Sampling a big breadth of headphones and related gear has an interesting effect... You'd think it would make you want to immediately jump to an HE-1000 or LCD4, drop a couple thousand on some TOTL gear, but instead you really zero in on your preferences, and perhaps have an easier time deciding that you would still be just as happy with something more moderately priced.
> 
> That said, I do really want a Mr. Speakers Ether... and that's a flagship & +$1000, but I'd probably still be happy with a PM-2, HE-400i (didn't get to spend enough time with this), or even something from 1964 Ears (sounded so good, even the cheapest universal!!). The HD800 was very good and surprised me how even it was, but it was lightly modded, and when I heard the Ether later I heard more of what I personally wanted. I'd still take an HD800, it gave me chills and shocked me how good it was and fun to listen to, but it still doesn't sound like speakers located several feet away... That kind of soundstage doesn't matter as much to me anymore, as much as imaging (being able to tell where things are placed), crisp separation where I can hear every instrument played, and still being engaging and fun.




No meets in Poland though


----------



## Evshrug

henhowc said:


> noobie question...
> 
> so i picked up one of those neweer lapel clip-on mics mentioned in the OP.
> 
> ...




Sure!
The plug on the DS4 has a TRRS pinout (like a smartphone headset), while the Neweer Mics are TRS. What you need is a splitter, TRRS to mic and headphone. The brand I found at a pretty cheap price was called startech.com


If you want to hear what others say back to you, you'll also want a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable to connect the headphone jack on the splitter to the aux input on the DSS... 

Though it's been awhile, I think there was some trouble doing that? I forget if the DSS' aux input is still free when using optical, so you might need to patch in chat audio with another Y-Splitter... 

The lapel mic was the choice chat solution with Xbox 360, because you could get a cheap controller adapter and use Xbox settings to manually set the chat audio to go out through "speakers" (aka optical). With the current gen (ps4 & XBO), those settings are all automatic so we can't work them that way. I eventually figured "PS4 works with USB Mics? What can I find on eBay... Blue Snowball for $30? DONE DEAL!" Fixed all my chat problems, because with a mic-only USB input the PS4 will route chat through speakers.


----------



## Fiscopath

Amazon is having a lightening deal on the ModMic today, 16% off but it's almost over.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Antlion-Audio-ModMic-Attachable-Microphone/dp/B00R98JVVU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450373963&sr=8-2


----------



## bonami2

Looking for the best all around headphone for gaming ( with low end a bit a least )
  
  
 Arma 3 battlefield counter all of those game Insurgency too... So soundstage is vital..
  
 Being looking at the Superlux HD668B With the vmoda mic and a female to female adapter.
  
  
 They are 65$ in canada
  
  
 Any idea or experience with those headphone?
  
  
  
 Thank you


----------



## henhowc

evshrug said:


> Sure!
> The plug on the DS4 has a TRRS pinout (like a smartphone headset), while the Neweer Mics are TRS. What you need is a splitter, TRRS to mic and headphone. The brand I found at a pretty cheap price was called startech.com
> 
> 
> ...


 
 ah...thanks. that sounds like a lot more cabling than i thought would be initially required 
  
 i think the ps4 mono earbud will have to do for now. generally speaking, the mic quality is pretty much going to be the same for the majority of these earbud/iems that have mics yea?


----------



## JAMBOX

yethal said:


> I use the Creative BT-W2 dongle. I even posted a mini review of it a few months back (which can be boiled down to: awesome but not for 40$). Every bluetooth dongle that shows up in Windows as audio device and not a bluetooth adapter should work. As far as I know every usb soundcard that doesn't require a proprietary driver will work with the x7.



Cool, I was looking at it as an option wasn't sure it would work on the ps4 end, but that's good news (it's a wee bit cheaper in the UK I think). I went the cable route(I'm comfortable with cables) but it isn't perfect. I was reading on a different forum(xim) i think a lot of dongles don't work due the ps4 not supporting a lot of protocols but the creative looked good since it supports one the ps4 does and transfers by creatives own which is optimised for the x7.
Yeh, on usb soundcards, it's true but it's not the type of info which manufacturers tend state, don't see why just another selling point.



mad lust envy said:


> If someone wants me to make a list of things for the guide, you can make one, I'll paste it on the first page, and give you the credit.
> 
> Don't expect too many updates to the guide by my hand anymore. You guys have become quite a community that can stand on it's legs without me, and I'd love to give someone some OP privileges for some non-headphone review updates to the guide, but it'd be hard, since there are so many of you I would do that for.



Definately, your op is an awesome resource, I've actually seen it linked to on many forums, rest on your laurels a bit .
I'd be up for making a wee list if anyone wants to point me to working devices. Don't have the time.. or money atm to test the devices myself.
Maybe it's worth me starting another thread to collect the info? Incase any numptys decide to throw a spanner in the works by trying to add non working devices, that way people could challenge a bad recommendation.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE, when did you plan the TH-X00 review with Change is Good's sample again?


----------



## dragosto

If i go:  ps4>fiio e17>fidelio X2, would i be able to use a seperate mic trough the ds4 port and just hang it around my neck so i can talk into it and receive voices trough my x2 aswell as gamesound?


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> MLE, when did you plan the TH-X00 review with Change is Good's sample again?



LOL!
However, I like this idea.




henhowc said:


> ah...thanks. that sounds like a lot more cabling than i thought would be initially required
> 
> i think the ps4 mono earbud will have to do for now. generally speaking, the mic quality is pretty much going to be the same for the majority of these earbud/iems that have mics yea?



The included mic works... and sounds noticeably tinny. Your friends probably will complain if they've ever heard better.

I felt the same way though, about the cables, which is why I was relieved that the used USB Mics were priced around the same as a ModMic or Boompro.


----------



## Sound Quality

mad lust envy said:


> But honestly with $400 I want the convenience of the Sennheiser RS185.




Hi,

In terms of clarity of footsteps and 3D directional accuracy, would you say that the Sennheiser RS185 is as good as the AD700X? (When paired with a mixamp on consoles)


----------



## Fegefeuer

400 Dollars? It was 255€ here recently.


----------



## henhowc

evshrug said:


> The included mic works... and sounds noticeably tinny. Your friends probably will complain if they've ever heard better.
> 
> I felt the same way though, about the cables, which is why I was relieved that the used USB Mics were priced around the same as a ModMic or Boompro.


 
  
 appreciate the suggestions. i think i'll have to pass having a snowball sitting on my coffee table. those things look pretty big. not to mention having another 8ft cord across my living isn't really ideal. one to connect my headphones is already pushing it lol
  
 guess i'll play around with some other earbuds/iems with mics and see if my voice sounds any better using one of those. thanks.


----------



## shuto77

fegefeuer said:


> 400 Dollars? It was 255€ here recently.




It sounds like Sennheiser gear sells for cheaper in the homeland. Perhaps I should brush up on meine Deutsche.


----------



## Change is Good

MLE, close that HE-400 ad and pick up one of those TH-X00s. Now...

I'm still grasping how it compares to the 1540 w/alpha pads and whether if it was a side grade rather than an upgrade. My early impressions is that, well, it is an upgrade... but only over the stock 1540. Switching to the alpha pads really made them (1540) that much better, and more fitting to its price range. The X00 has a similar u-shaped, but the soundstage is definitely wider and maybe slightly deeper, so that is a plus.

Now, I never heard the 600 and 900, but my guess is that those are really bassheads cans which may lead to the over-exaggerated talk about these mids being forward and bass being reduced. Compared to those cans, probably yes, but these are still borderline basshead material. If I kept the 1540 for two years, I can see these sticking around for just as long, if not longer.

PS: Switching to alpha pads on the X00 may be a sonic improvement, as they do tighten up its bass. Unlike on the 1540, however, it reduces the amount of slam, slightly. I prefer the slower decay and thump of the stock pads, so that is how they will remain.

PPS: Amazing job by Casper on the mod. The Boompro adapter is top notch, as well.




fegefeuer said:


> MLE, when did you plan the TH-X00 review with Change is Good's sample again?







evshrug said:


> LOL!
> However, I like this idea.




Won't need to if he stops being stubborn and just picks one up. I forget his reasons for ridding the 600 and 900, but at $400 the X00 is an absolute steal.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> MLE, close that HE-400 ad and pick up one of those TH-X00s. Now...
> 
> I'm still grasping how it compares to the 1540 w/alpha pads and whether if it was a side grade rather than an upgrade. My early impressions is that, well, it is an upgrade... but only over the stock 1540. Switching to the alpha pads really made them that much better, and more fitting to its price range. The X00 has a similar u-shaped, but the soundstage is definitely wider and maybe slightly deeper, so that is a plus.
> 
> ...




I'm loving my TH X00's, I was pleasantly surprised how good the soundstage is. I've really enjoyed it for gaming thus far and obviously great for music. From a comfort standpoint i find the pads to be very comfortable, despite what some have said on it's thread.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> I'm loving my TH X00's, I was pleasantly surprised how good the soundstage is. I've really enjoyed it for gaming thus far and obviously great for music. From a comfort standpoint i find the pads to be very comfortable, despite what some have said on it's thread.




Yes, the soundstage is really something else... the widest I've heard from a closed can. I'm guessing its semi-open nature is the cause of that, though. As for the pads, they really aren't that bad. They aren't alpha pad comfy, but despite my big ears I find them to be tolerable. Still wish there was a better option, though, without risking bass quantity.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pads, it is always the pads, and the fact I don't need a closed headphone. I will absolutely not buy a headphone with leather pads of any kind ever again.


----------



## jthom320

I'm interested in a coupe headphones as a companion piece to my HD598s.
  
 I've kind of narrowed my search down to the HE-400i, HD 650 or the AKG 712 pro.  
  
 I'm not a professional gamer.  I'm looking for a headphone that will work well with Dolby headphone but I don't need something that only excels at that.  
  
 I'm going to be driving them off of an O2 or a magni 2.  Either of those amps will actually be my first purchase and I'll play around with my amped 598's til I make a decision.  
  
 Anyway like I said not a pro gamer but dolby headphone will still be one of the main uses.  Music will actually be pretty low on the totem pole.  I'm looking for something that does really well with Netflix streams, vudu streams, Blu-Rays, youtube videos and games mostly.
  
 As you can see there are quite a few low quality sources in there which brings me to the crux of my question.  Should I be crossing off either of those three cans based off the fact that I will be using low quality sources semi-regularly?  Just curious as I feel this question/answer will help me narrow it down.
  
 Also for the record I'm leaning more towards the HD 650 or the 400s.  But the 712 sounds cool to as it still would be as good if not better for surround then my senn's and have better sound quality.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## Sanctuary

mad lust envy said:


> Pads, it is always the pads, and the fact I don't need a closed headphone. I will absolutely not buy a headphone with leather pads of any kind ever again.


 

 Until there are some non leather pads that don't leak as much and don't make my ears *itch like crazy*, I feel the opposite.


----------



## AxelCloris

sanctuary said:


> Until there are some non leather pads that don't leak as much and don't make my ears *itch like crazy*, I feel the opposite.


 

 Shure alcantara pads do a nice job meeting those requirements, but they're not a universal fit.


----------



## Imperatore

Thanks to this guide I purchase some Fidelio X1 and mix amp pro back in Feb 2014. I am however looking to change for no other reason than I want to see what else is out there. I have got some wireless headphones for convenience (Sony HW700DS) but I still need another decent set for aux connections. I
Only thing I dislike about X1 is that they are open and my PS4 sounds like a jet and ruins the immersion so I'd really like closed back again. No particular budget but if I don't have to spend more than £500 would be a bonus.
Also I've just seen the Creative X7 and I'm keen to try Dolby Headphone as I understand I'm not getting that at the moment with a mix amp.

Oh I ordered a Schiit Audio Magni 2 as well

Edit: mix amp is Dolby headphone. Left for shame.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Itchy pads are easy to get used to, and they become less itchy with time. You can't turn sticky, sweltering heat inducing leather pads into non-sticky, non-ear furnace pads.

I live in Florida, which is completely disrespectful of Winter, and where A/C isn't the best.

For me, leather pads are no longer an option. Every time I try and justify a headphone with leather pads, I end up regretting it and selling/returning them.


----------



## wadec22

sound quality said:


> Hi,
> 
> In terms of clarity of footsteps and 3D directional accuracy, would you say that the Sennheiser RS185 is as good as the AD700X? (When paired with a mixamp on consoles)


 
I can't speak specifically to the 185, but I figured I would chime in since I have some experience with the RS 180 (my current cans).
 
Now I opted for the 180s over the 185 for a couple of reasons - 1. Many claim the 185 is heavier and clamps much tighter than the 180.  I am sensitive to clamp force (I can't handle Beyerdynamic "pro" versions).  2. I did not see a reason to pay for a DAC that I would be bypassing anyway.
 
Now I've owned:
Audio Technica ATH-AD700's
 Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80ohm
 Beyerdynamic DT 150
 Beyerdynamic DT880 250ohm
 Beyerdynamic DT900 250ohm
 Denon D2000
 Sennheiser 518
 Sennheiser 598
 
I would say the soundstage is equal to that of the 598.  They have a little more bass, making them more "fun" as well.  In a few scenarios with music, I thought the 598 may be slightly superior, but the difference was minimal enough to consider placebo. The old AD700 soundstage still trumps both in my book, but not by a significant margin.
 
On my ps4, I run the 180s with a mixamp and it's really pretty good.  If there are any other questions I can help with, let me know.  Hope that helps!
 
I would love to hear a gamer's review/perspective of the 185.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Back on the HE-400 camp.

Bought a pair with both focus and velour pads for a good price.

Had it not been for some bday money, I probably would've not bought anything.

Since the X7 has some EQ, I may just reduce the upper treble a hint). MAYBE.

Not gonna lie, I was eyeing a pre-fazor vegan LCD2 for sale. Had it not been for the HE-400, I may have just done it. But that one was almost 3x what I paid for the HE400, and I'm too broke for that.


----------



## mindbomb

I'm using the pc version of dolby headphone with asus xonars, which is supposedly a little different than the mixamp version, but for me, there was clear superiority with certain akg headphones (k7xx, k712, k702) and audio technica headphones (ad700x, ad900x) over sennheiser models (hd 558, 598, 600) with the dh1 setting. The sennheisers at these price points simply could not create the convincing out of head experience that akg and audio technica could.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I was playing Lightning Returns on PC with my Xonar U3 feeding Dolby Headphone 2 to my X7 (SBX turned off, obviously).

Man, I have to reiterate, that I prefer Dolby Headphone than SBX. It's just (to my ears) much more immersive, and the rear cues come through much better.

It's been awhile since I've used DH, and now I think I'm gonna start using it again for PC.

Wish there was an X7 equivalent with Dolby Headphone that isn't a 300lb receiver, lol.


----------



## wadec22

mindbomb said:


> I'm using the pc version of dolby headphone with asus xonars, which is supposedly a little different than the mixamp version, but for me, there was clear superiority with certain akg headphones (k7xx, k712, k702) and audio technica headphones (ad700x, ad900x) over sennheiser models (hd 558, 598, 600) with the dh1 setting. The sennheisers at these price points simply could not create the convincing out of head experience that akg and audio technica could.


 

 the mixamp uses dh2, although i still find it inferior to that on the xonar cards (my experience being the essence stx & the dgx)
  
 always interesting to hear subjective opinion though - i can't stand dh1 on the xonar cards.


----------



## Sound Quality

wadec22 said:


> I can't speak specifically to the 185, but I figured I would chime in since I have some experience with the RS 180 (my current cans).
> 
> Now I opted for the 180s over the 185 for a couple of reasons - 1. Many claim the 185 is heavier and clamps much tighter than the 180.  I am sensitive to clamp force (I can't handle Beyerdynamic "pro" versions).  2. I did not see a reason to pay for a DAC that I would be bypassing anyway.
> 
> ...




This is an excellent response. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond wadec22. Your post is very helpful =)

For comfort, I definitely agree with you. Going by reviews and posts on this forum, Sennheiser seem to have made the new RS models clamp too tightly, so that they don't fall off. This might be a slight concern for me. 

If the soundstage for the RS180 is near or equal to the 598's, then that's a huge plus, considering it's a wireless headphone with compressed sound.

Since the RS185 uses uncompressed sound, maybe it will sound a bit better than the 598's, in terms of clarity and detail. 

If I do end up getting the RS185, I will certainly share my thoughts on it for gaming.


----------



## MattKelly

So because of this whole G5 incident I've been forced to go back to double amping the MixAmp. Since I sold off my old MixAmp Pro, I'm left having to buy new gear. I settled on the MixAmp TR (primarily for custom EQ) and either the O2 or Magni 2 to go with it. But at that price point (around $250) I'm just short of the X7 on Amazon at $299 (new). Heck, I could probably find it even cheaper used. So what now... just spring for the X7? I had never even seriously considered it until adding up the price of double amping my MixAmp. My other gear will stay the same (K7XX + ModMic). Hmm...


----------



## kellte2

mattkelly said:


> So because of this whole G5 incident I've been forced to go back to double amping the MixAmp. Since I sold off my old MixAmp Pro, I'm left having to buy new gear. I settled on the MixAmp TR (primarily for custom EQ) and either the O2 or Magni 2 to go with it. But at that price point (around $250) I'm just short of the X7 on Amazon at $299 (new). Heck, I could probably find it even cheaper used. So what now... just spring for the X7? I had never even seriously considered it until adding up the price of double amping my MixAmp. My other gear will stay the same (K7XX + ModMic). Hmm...




I went from double amping with a matrix m-stage, mixamp 2013, K702 Annie and modmic to the x7. It is a huge jump in sound quality over the mixamp.


----------



## jthom320

kellte2 said:


> I went from double amping with a matrix m-stage, mixamp 2013, K702 Annie and modmic to the x7. It is a huge jump in sound quality over the mixamp.


 

 I'm kind of in the same boat as him.
  
 I understand in terms of sound quality there's a bump.  How does it stack up in terms of positional audio on console?
  
 If I understand correctly it uses Sound Blasters solution rather then Dolby Headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sound quality said:


> This is an excellent response. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond wadec22. Your post is very helpful =)
> 
> For comfort, I definitely agree with you. Going by reviews and posts on this forum, Sennheiser seem to have made the new RS models clamp too tightly, so that they don't fall off. This might be a slight concern for me.
> 
> ...




Uncompressed sound. The 598 will also be uncompressed... if you're feeding lossless to it.

There is no way that technicallyu speaking, a wireless headphone will sound better than a wired one, unless you feed it bad audio.

As for you possibly preferring the 185's sound, perhaps.


----------



## bonami2

How should i use sbx ?
  
 Do i just enable it and max the slider and start any game and play?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jthom320 said:


> I'm kind of in the same boat as him.
> 
> I understand in terms of sound quality there's a bump.  How does it stack up in terms of positional audio on console?
> 
> If I understand correctly it uses Sound Blasters solution rather then Dolby Headphone?




X7 uses SBX, Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone.

Personal opinion:

As I mentioned a post or so ago, I prefer Dolby Headphone for it's immersive qualities (it impresses me how it sounds like my room has a full set of speakers on, which to me not even SBX does as well), and ESPECIALLY because it does positional cues better than SBX.

It is no contest that the quality of the sound is better on the X7. The Mixamp has distortion and noise that the X7 utterly beats. But to be honest, if I found a Mixamp 5.8 again with perhaps a decent dac/amp unit, I may be tempted on being ok with the trade offs.

It's hard though, because the X7 really is an excellent all in one package.


----------



## jthom320

mad lust envy said:


> X7 uses SBX, Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone.
> 
> Personal opinion:
> 
> ...


 

 Interesting.
  
 Do you have any experience with the Mixamp TR?  I'm using it currently (with HD598s) and it sounds pretty good.  But I'm definitely upgrading my headphones at some point soon and I'm worried higher quality headphones will potentially bring out the flaws inherent to this set up.  Also planning on double amping like our friend up above.
  
 Or perhaps switching entirely to an X7.  I'm still deciding on what headphones to get though so unfortunately I can't be specific on exactly what I'll be using.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Last, most current Mixamp I used was the 2013 Mixamp Pro (the first with the EQ preset button).

It was quite high in noise.

To be honest, for gaming, I'm not TOO anal about the background noise, and was mostly okay with it, though if you want a super clean signal, it was far from ok. For that, I would recommend the older wired Mixamps, which had far less noise, enough to be a non-issue for gaming/movies. I don't know how the new Mixamps are in terms of noise.

Double amping is not the devil everyone thinks it is. For one, unless you have a bad amp, it's not ADDING more audible noise. You're obviously making the volume louder with the extra amp, which is why it will have louder noise than the Mixamp alone. If you set the volume to the same as the Mixamp alone, it will be the same noise floor.

All I'm saying is that Mixamp + other amp is fine for me. Yes, I'd like better, or one piece that does all like the X7, but I can live with either, and therre are tradeoffs.

I either get a super clean setup wth SBX, or one that is less ideal with multiple pieces of equipment but with my IMHO preferable Dolby Headphone.

I can live with SBX. I'm sure most of you would prefer it because it's not a huge contrast from what you expect out of stereo quality headphone listening, but with surround cues. I just happen to like how Dolby Headphone transforms the sound into a virtual room speaker setup. It's more convincing of the surround effect than SBX for me.


----------



## jthom320

The interesting thing is that I don't hear any background noise with my TR mixamp.  The one that just came out.

 Making me think either my ears aren't as good as yours, my 598s aren't that revealing or they fixed the issue.
  
 Since I am upgrading my headphones soon the second option is what concerns me.  Don't want to spend 500 dollars on headphones and start getting this hiss I've been hearing about.


----------



## DagsJT

Can anyone vouch for using a Cayin C5 with a Mixamp?

I've currently got the Mixamp connected to my Xbox One and bought a G5 to hopefully use my PC and Xbox on the same device. However the G5's virtual stereo sound isn't even close to being good enough for me to lose Dolby from my Mixamp.

So I'm wondering if I can get away with using the Mixamp for PC and Xbox as I used to do but add the C5 to give it some more life and sounds take, particularly for music on the PC.

Either that or get a Fiio E10k for the PC.

Any suggestions? I'm using Fidelio X2's by the way.


----------



## shuto77

jthom320 said:


> The interesting thing is that I don't hear any background noise with my TR mixamp.  The one that just came out.
> 
> 
> Making me think either my ears aren't as good as yours, my 598s aren't that revealing or they fixed the issue.
> ...


----------



## Sam21

Are the new K702 Annies pads identical to K712 pads ?


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> jthom320 said:
> 
> 
> > The interesting thing is that I don't hear any background noise with my TR mixamp.  The one that just came out.
> ...


 

 I'm actually starting to lean heavily towards buying the X7 and testing with my 598s vs the mixamp.
  
 I like the surround sound more for immersion then being super competitive so I'm starting to think slightly less precise positional cues may not be that big of a deal.
  
 You mention convenience.  Is there anything particularly inconvenient about the X7?  I'm assuming it'd work fine with whatever headphone I end up getting + midmic.


----------



## shuto77

jthom320 said:


> I'm actually starting to lean heavily towards buying the X7 and testing with my 598s vs the mixamp.
> 
> I like the surround sound more for immersion then being super competitive so I'm starting to think slightly less precise positional cues may not be that big of a deal.
> 
> You mention convenience.  Is there anything particularly inconvenient about the X7?  I'm assuming it'd work fine with whatever headphone I end up getting + midmic.




The X2s are extremely convenient, as far as open-backed, over-ear headphones go. It uses the standard 3.5mm cable input, is easy to drive and has replaceable pads. 

The only caveat I'll add is that there are some questions around the quality control of the X2s produced during the last two months, and Amazon is currently investigating it. 

 If you go on the X2 thread, a lot of people there are complaining of issues and have found that Philips has outsourced the manufacturing of this headphone to a new company, with poor results. 

I ordered one of these open box units from Amazon, so I can report back if that's the case.


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> The X2s are extremely convenient, as far as open-backed, over-ear headphones go. It uses the standard 3.5mm cable input, is easy to drive and has replaceable pads.
> 
> The only caveat I'll add is that there are some questions around the quality control of the X2s produced during the last two months, and Amazon is currently investigating it.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry man.  I was actually referring to the Sandblaster X7 in terms of my convenience question.
  
 The Phillips headphones are on my list though.  Although the second half of your post is rather concerning.  If it's not too much trouble wouldn't mind an opinion on the newer X2's.


----------



## shuto77

jthom320 said:


> Sorry man.  I was actually referring to the Sandblaster X7 in terms of my convenience question.
> 
> The Phillips headphones are on my list though.  Although the second half of your post is rather concerning.  If it's not too much trouble wouldn't mind an opinion on the newer X2's.




Lol, sorry. Well I've been using the X7 since February 2015, and it's quite an improvement over the Mixamp on every front, except the most important one for people who chat while they game.

There are two workarounds I'm aware of for the Ps4: Either connect a USB mic directly to the Ps4, or get a Bluetooth adapter that will send your chat audio from your boom mic to the console, which can then be mixed by the X7. 

I haven't been using the chat feature so far (I'm getting a V-MODA Boompro for Christmas.) Lots of other people here have used its chat features on ps4, PC and Xbox One. 

I just ordered the "new" open-box X2 today, so I won't be able to compare until I get them on Tuesday.


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> Lol, sorry. Well I've been using the X7 since February 2015, and it's quite an improvement over the Mixamp on every front, except the most important one for people who chat while they game.
> 
> There are two workarounds I'm aware of for the Ps4: Either connect a USB mic directly to the Ps4, or get a Bluetooth adapter that will send your chat audio from your boom mic to the console, which can then be mixed by the X7.
> 
> ...


 

 Ahh.
  
 Well that'd be the issue there as I use the chat quite a bit.  Will look into both solutions.  THat's a shame that's an issue because I'm liking what I'm reading on the X7.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> Ahh.
> 
> Well that'd be the issue there as I use the chat quite a bit.  Will look into both solutions.  THat's a shame that's an issue because I'm liking what I'm reading on the X7.  Thanks for the info.



Bluetooth adapter should solve the issue. Just search on ebay for ps4 bluetooth usb. They're like 10 bucks a unit.


----------



## jthom320

This is a super dumb question but in this scenario with the bluetooth adapter where does the modmic plug in?  The controller?
  
 Or would this require me to pick out a different mic?


----------



## st0neh

mad lust envy said:


> I can live with SBX. I'm sure most of you would prefer it because it's not a huge contrast from what you expect out of stereo quality headphone listening, but with surround cues. I just happen to like how Dolby Headphone transforms the sound into a virtual room speaker setup. It's more convincing of the surround effect than SBX for me.


 
  
  
 I'm exactly the same. There's no denying that in terms of pure audio quality Dolby Headphone isn't the best, and it can have the artificial room feeling that sounds a little out of place for outdoor settings, but nothing comes close to the positional audio I get from it.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> This is a super dumb question but in this scenario with the bluetooth adapter where does the modmic plug in?  The controller?
> 
> Or would this require me to pick out a different mic?



Modmic plugs into the x7 in that scenario


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jthom320 said:


> The interesting thing is that I don't hear any background noise with my TR mixamp.  The one that just came out.
> 
> 
> Making me think either my ears aren't as good as yours, my 598s aren't that revealing or they fixed the issue.
> ...




Like I said, last one I tested was the 2013, which had much more noise than the ones before it. I never tested the TR. If it fixed the high noise floor, that is fantastic.


----------



## jthom320

mad lust envy said:


> Like I said, last one I tested was the 2013, which had much more noise than the ones before it. I never tested the TR. If it fixed the high noise floor, that is fantastic.


 

 It hasn't.  I turned it on without anything playing.  Didn't get any hiss til about 90% volume but it's there.
  
 Shame.  Still like the unit overall though.  Playing black ops 3 when I'm close to a nade I can hear the debris hitting the ground positioned correctly depending on where it blew up.
  
 That part is borderline incredible.


----------



## MattKelly

Thanks for all the feedback on my dilemma so far guys. Do any of you know if they've finally fixed/improved the mic quality on the MixAmp TR? It's always been such poor quality in the past. I'm wondering if the ModMic will sound better or worse when used through the MixAmp TR versus the X7 (mostly for Skype and PC communicating - not actual console chat). Still undecided on all of this, because as a competitive console player, positional cues are my #1 priority - but at the same time I want to do my K7XX justice if SBX is that much clearer (only used the MixAmp's DH in the past. I'm still here just jumping back and forth between $230 for a MixAmp TR and Magni 2 or $299 for the X7. Ahh, decisions decisions!


----------



## jincuteguy

So the Creative Lab G5 can't decode Dolby Digital from Consoles and won't have a firmware update or anything right?


----------



## Sam21

jincuteguy said:


> So the Creative Lab G5 can't decode Dolby Digital from Consoles and won't have a firmware update or anything right?


 
  
 I emailed Creative a while back and asked them if they would release a firmware update for E5 that would make it able to decode DD. They responded that there are currently no plans to do it. Which I think translates to : no DD for E5 ... G5 probably won't have it either, but the hardware in E5/G5 has the ability to decode DD with the right firmware. Probably a marketing thing other than that I don't understand why they don't have this feature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jthom320 said:


> It hasn't.  I turned it on without anything playing.  Didn't get any hiss til about 90% volume but it's there.
> 
> Shame.  Still like the unit overall though.  Playing black ops 3 when I'm close to a nade I can hear the debris hitting the ground positioned correctly depending on where it blew up.
> 
> That part is borderline incredible.




That is an improvement. I didn't expect a noiseless floor. It is a gaming product after all, not an audiophile one. Do you use the Mixamp at 90%. I doubt it.


----------



## jthom320

mad lust envy said:


> That is an improvement. I didn't expect a noiseless floor. It is a gaming product after all, not an audiophile one. Do you use the Mixamp at 90%. I doubt it.


 

 No I don't.  It's not bad at all.
  
 Still thinking I'm going to be switching to an X7.  But the mixamp is a lot of fun no question it's just not quite what I was looking for.
  
 At hundred bucks though I think it's a great little product.


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> Thanks for all the feedback on my dilemma so far guys. Do any of you know if they've finally fixed/improved the mic quality on the MixAmp TR? It's always been such poor quality in the past. I'm wondering if the ModMic will sound better or worse when used through the MixAmp TR versus the X7 (mostly for Skype and PC communicating - not actual console chat). Still undecided on all of this, because as a competitive console player, positional cues are my #1 priority - but at the same time I want to do my K7XX justice if SBX is that much clearer (only used the MixAmp's DH in the past. I'm still here just jumping back and forth between $230 for a MixAmp TR and Magni 2 or $299 for the X7. Ahh, decisions decisions!



A while back I recorded some sound samples with the X7 abd ModMic. They should beclinked in the X7 thread.


----------



## st0neh

mattkelly said:


> Thanks for all the feedback on my dilemma so far guys. Do any of you know if they've finally fixed/improved the mic quality on the MixAmp TR?


 
  
 From what I heard the TR is shipping with the same crappy mic but they had an improved mic in the works, it might be out by now.
  
 No idea if they did anything with the mic input on the actual Mixamp though.


----------



## kellte2

st0neh said:


> From what I heard the TR is shipping with the same crappy mic but they had an improved mic in the works, it might be out by now.
> 
> No idea if they did anything with the mic input on the actual Mixamp though.




The mic input on the Mixamp is hot garbage. I was able to "fix" my 2013 model by rolling back to the original firmware, but the quality was still very poor.


----------



## Sam21

Is this the K712 pro pad ? 
  
 http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_702_gel_ear_pad.htm


----------



## Change is Good

sam21 said:


> Is this the K712 pro pad ?
> 
> http://www.thomann.de/gb/akg_k_702_gel_ear_pad.htm




Safest place to get genuine stock K712 pads would be from AKG parts department. Visit their website to check contact info for your region.


----------



## CAPO718

Need a recommendation on a wireless headset. I was looking at the Astros a50 but the review here didn't seem to great. Any other great ones ? For playing games on ps4 and watching movies. I want to connect it to the optical port to get either a 5.1 headset or 7.1. Thank you


----------



## Change is Good

capo718 said:


> Need a recommendation on a wireless headset. I was looking at the Astros a50 but the review here didn't seem to great. Any other great ones ? For playing games on ps4 and watching movies. I want to connect it to the optical port to get either a 5.1 headset or 7.1. Thank you




SLYR/PLYR?


----------



## CAPO718

change is good said:


> SLYR/PLYR?




Kinda new. What headsets are those ? Sorry


----------



## Change is Good

capo718 said:


> Kinda new. What headsets are those ? Sorry


 
  
 There's a review on the first post.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Siberia 800 seems quite interesting, also supposedly due to its built. Not a regular gam0r 1337 Razer style and built device 
  
 If on PC then the RS 185. I found the RS 185 to be quite good, better than Sennheiser best headset, the G4ME One. Played on PC with it, plugged a mic into the Xbone One Controller and off I went into Harran.


----------



## CAPO718

Need for ps4.. Looking at the reviews now. Thank you


----------



## kashim

sorry guys i play all of my time in competitive fps games like cs go,actually have a k612 pro with soundblaster z,can i have better soundstage or positional audio if i sell this headphone and buy ad700x?is worth it?


----------



## Fegefeuer

not worth it. Just focus on the games


----------



## xxxGODxxx

Do I need to buy a sound card that supports dolby headphones/cm,ss-3d or any other virtual surround software to get virtual surround or would the the games do it for me? Would setting my ingame sound to 7.1 surround sound give me surround sound or would I need a sound card that provides a surround sound technology? I play games such as total war, bf4, tf2, gta v and borderlands 2, but mostly tf2, gta v and bf4


----------



## NamelessPFG

xxxgodxxx said:


> Do I need to buy a sound card that supports dolby headphones/cm,ss-3d or any other virtual surround software to get virtual surround or would the the games do it for me? Would setting my ingame sound to 7.1 surround sound give me surround sound or would I need a sound card that provides a surround sound technology? I play games such as total war, bf4, tf2, gta v and borderlands 2, but mostly tf2, gta v and bf4


 
  
 Most games SUCK at mixing audio for headphones.
  
 BF3 was one of the rare exceptions with Enhanced Stereo Mode (as well as any OpenAL game that comes bundled with Rapture3D, like a lot of Codemasters racing titles), but they removed that in BF4 for some dumb reason, and SW:BF3 is no better. Sounds completely one-dimensional if I let games try and handle positional audio for headphones, no sense of depth whatsoever.
  
 That's why we splurge for sound cards in the first place.


----------



## xxxGODxxx

namelesspfg said:


> Most games SUCK at mixing audio for headphones.
> 
> BF3 was one of the rare exceptions with Enhanced Stereo Mode (as well as any OpenAL game that comes bundled with Rapture3D, like a lot of Codemasters racing titles), but they removed that in BF4 for some dumb reason, and SW:BF3 is no better. Sounds completely one-dimensional if I let games try and handle positional audio for headphones, no sense of depth whatsoever.
> 
> That's why we splurge for sound cards in the first place.


 
 Oh great, I do not have enough pcie lanes for a sound card already and I have already bought a pair of HD598SEs already. Is there anyway I can still get the surround sound? I just tried playing bf4 with the audio settings set to headphones and stereo and the surround sound seems quite decent but it is quite bad in tf2 (tried in game 7.1 speaker config and headphones config - both didn't give good positional audio). I have not tried GTA V. Is razer surround recommended?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get the BlasterX G5 at a reduced price


----------



## xxxGODxxx

fegefeuer said:


> Get the BlasterX G5 at a reduced price



That's a little to pricy for me though, I live in Singapore and things here are a little more expensive. Can you recommend me where I can get the USB soundcard you recommended for cheap and your opinion on Razer surround (if you ever used it)?


----------



## hilyou

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the sound quality of the Creative Soundblaster X7 and the Schiit Magni 2/Modi 2 Uber combo? Would love to know how comparable the quality is between the two.


----------



## jthom320

hilyou said:


> Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the sound quality of the Creative Soundblaster X7 and the Schiit Magni 2/Modi 2 Uber combo? Would love to know how comparable the quality is between the two.


 
 I can't comment on the quality.  (Although I have a X7 on the way)
  
 However if you are looking for virtual surround in gaming the Schitt stack will not give it to you.
  
 If you want Virtual surround you could get the Magni + a Mixamp.  The X7 would sound better though.  The mixamp has some hissing issues even with the new ones although it's not that big a deal at most normal listening levels.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

xxxgodxxx said:


> That's a little to pricy for me though, I live in Singapore and things here are a little more expensive. Can you recommend me where I can get the USB soundcard you recommended for cheap and your opinion on Razer surround (if you ever used it)?




Xonar U3 can be found dirt cheap. And it will give you the surround. Not sure it will have the power for the HD598 however.


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone knows if any of the Sound Blaster Z / Zx / ZxR soundcard will give you Virtual Surround Sound out from the Optical Out on the card (like the new G5 feature)?


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows if any of the Sound Blaster Z / Zx / ZxR soundcard will give you Virtual Surround Sound out from the Optical Out on the card (like the new G5 feature)?



A while ago i emailed Creative reps asking about that very issue and they said yes.


xxxgodxxx said:


> That's a little to pricy for me though, I live in Singapore and things here are a little more expensive. Can you recommend me where I can get the USB soundcard you recommended for cheap and your opinion on Razer surround (if you ever used it)?



Razer Surround is VERY inaccurate and sounds artificial. Try Out Of Your Head gaming preset if You really want Your virtual surround to be software based.


----------



## mindbomb

xxxgodxxx said:


> Do I need to buy a sound card that supports dolby headphones/cm,ss-3d or any other virtual surround software to get virtual surround or would the the games do it for me? Would setting my ingame sound to 7.1 surround sound give me surround sound or would I need a sound card that provides a surround sound technology? I play games such as total war, bf4, tf2, gta v and borderlands 2, but mostly tf2, gta v and bf4


 
 A game could do virtual surround, but I'm not sure any actually do. If they do though, then it would be picked up by the recording software, so you can just check gameplay videos. I think people may be unclear on what virtual surround is, so that's why they claim some games do this when they don't. Virtual surround sound boils down to there being a front and back sound field in addition to the left and right of normal stereo sound. So if you close your eyes, start a gameplay video and can't tell front from back, there is a strong chance it didn't have virtual surround sound.


----------



## xxxGODxxx

mindbomb said:


> A game could do virtual surround, but I'm not sure any actually do. If they do though, then it would be picked up by the recording software, so you can just check gameplay videos. I think people may be unclear on what virtual surround is, so that's why they claim some games do this when they don't. Virtual surround sound boils down to there being a front and back sound field in addition to the left and right of normal stereo sound. So if you close your eyes, start a gameplay video and can't tell front from back, there is a strong chance it didn't have virtual surround sound.



Bf4 does the surround sound quite well and I managed to avoid getting back stabbed in tf2 cause I heard a spy decloak behind me so I guess it works in tf2 too. What I want to know is if Dolby headphones/cmss3d can make the effect even better, to iprove the positional ques


----------



## Yethal

xxxgodxxx said:


> Bf4 does the surround sound quite well and I managed to avoid getting back stabbed in tf2 cause I heard a spy decloak behind me so I guess it works in tf2 too. What I want to know is if Dolby headphones/cmss3d can make the effect even better, to iprove the positional ques



There are some premixed videos on youtube that should give You an idea how surround works with different algorithms.


----------



## martin vegas

Try this https://soundcloud.com/bjorn-akesson/the-bjorn-akesson-podcast-episode-011


----------



## mindbomb

xxxgodxxx said:


> Bf4 does the surround sound quite well and I managed to avoid getting back stabbed in tf2 cause I heard a spy decloak behind me so I guess it works in tf2 too. What I want to know is if Dolby headphones/cmss3d can make the effect even better, to iprove the positional ques


 
  
 Those games don't have virtual surround sound built in. You have to check with eyes closed to make sure you aren't influenced by visual feedback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So received ther HE400 with the velours, focus pads, and pleathers (which I'm obviously never going to use).

Wow, those focus pads are hella nice. Not sure I need to get the 1540 pads, since these will do quite nicely. It's also a little warmer than the velours.

Totally missed this sound.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> So received ther HE400 with the velours, focus pads, and pleathers (which I'm obviously never going to use).
> 
> Wow, those focus pads are hella nice. Not sure I need to get the 1540 pads, since these will do quite nicely. It's also a little warmer than the velours.
> 
> Totally missed this sound.


 
 You bought the HE400 (not the 400S or 400i right)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OG HE400. I definitely, definitely do not want less bass presence than this, which I have read ALL over that the 400i and 400s lack in comparison.

The HE400 is essentially my baseline for bass. Anything less is a no. Hell, slightly more would be fine.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> OG HE400. I definitely, definitely do not want less bass presence than this, which I have read ALL over that the 400i and 400s lack in comparison.
> 
> The HE400 is essentially my baseline for bass. Anything less is a no. Hell, slightly more would be fine.


 
 Does the HE400 has more bass than the Fostex TH900?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. TH900 has more, but is also less linear down low.

The amazing thing with planars like the HE400 is how bold the bass can be despite it being an open headphone. It can go as low as any closed dynamic with LESS distortion.

That being said, the TH900 bass is insanely tight despite how strong it is. My problem with the TH900 is that it just decays too quickly in the bass. I like some decay and bloom, which to me is natural like how bass reflects in a room.

Since I been too used to a modest bass tilt on my recent headphones, I have used the X7's EQ to boost the HE-400's 31hz bar by 4db, 62hz by 2db, and 125hz by 1db to gently slope down to the flat line after. Left everything else flat. 31hz is pretty down low, so it's just adding warmth and grunt to the sound, instead of being a pure bass boost. If there is any headphone that can handle a bass boost, it's the HE-400. Really, all that is is a weight/warmth boost, not a strict slam boost, which I didn't want. Hell, with some music, I can't even tell if the EQ is on or off. It works for my deeper genres more than anything.

I think I'll leave it like this, since I plan on using the HE-400 exclusively. I'll turn the EQ off for the Ultrasone 15G though since that already has a pretty big bass boost by default.


----------



## Sam21

MLE, How happy are you with your soundblaster JAM ? I am thinking of buying them.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> No. TH900 has more, but is also less linear down low.
> 
> The amazing thing with planars like the HE400 is how bold the bass can be despite it being an open headphone. It can go as low as any closed dynamic with LESS distortion.
> 
> ...



Isnt the HE400 heavy?
That was the main reason why I didnt buy it a while ago.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sam, I actually like the JAM a bit. Just remember, there is no way to get proper virtual surround with it, unless you buy a Bluetooth transmitter that has a 3.5mm input that is being fed by a surround device.

The JAM is far from an audiophile Headphone, but with the bass boost (use it, beecause the sound is thin and lifeless without it) and its convenience, I use it a LOT when I'm in bed and at work for TV and videos.

Just try to put some padding underneath the headband, and it will be a very comfy, wireless headset for cheap. I wrapped cloth around it.

Also, if you have it plugged in via USB, it becomes something else, and sounds different. Just download the JAM software off the Creative site. In this manner, I EQ'd the bass a bit (bass boost button doesn't work in USB mode), it made the JAM quite enjoyable.

I'll show you the subtle tweak in the software later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Isnt the HE400 heavy?
> That was the main reason why I didnt buy it a while ago.


 Not LCD2 heavy, lol. But yes, it's not light. Not a big deal since weight distribution is very good.


----------



## Sam21

you are right I can use it with any virtual surround device using this : 
  
 http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QQ68GPI?keywords=bluetooth%203.5mm&psc=1&qid=1450990393&ref_=sr_1_17&sr=8-17-spons
  
 I think I can use it with Razer surround as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sam21 said:


> you are right I can use it with any virtual surround device using this :
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QQ68GPI?keywords=bluetooth%203.5mm&psc=1&qid=1450990393&ref_=sr_1_17&sr=8-17-spons
> 
> I think I can use it with Razer surround as well.




Yeah, that product looks fine.

As for Razer surround... ehh... I'd advise on getting something better with Dolby Headphone or SBX.

Also, I haven't formally reviewed the JAM yet. Don't expect a killer. It's a decent wireless headset that is far from perfect, but it's super convenient, and it's sound signature is good enough for me for my limited purposes.

A wired headphone would gai quite a bit of boost in sound quality.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Not LCD2 heavy, lol. But yes, it's not light. Not a big deal since weight distribution is very good.


 
 Btw, where did you buy your HE400 from? I dont see they selling it on amazon anymore, except some 3rd unknown party ppl.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bought it here. There are plenty of people willing to sell their HE400 if you put up a willing to buy ad.

I am not a fan of buying things from others (I like buying new), but since the HE400 is discontinued, it's the only real choice, other than some unknown 3rd parties charging an arm and a leg.


----------



## mattvisual

jincuteguy said:


> Btw, where did you buy your HE400 from? I dont see they selling it on amazon anymore, except some 3rd unknown party ppl.


 
 So I was also looking at the HE400 and found a local place that sells online! Hope it helps http://shop.sightandsoundgallery.com/HIFIMAN-HE-400-p/14hp-hifhe-400.htm


----------



## Hansotek

mattvisual said:


> jincuteguy said:
> 
> 
> > Btw, where did you buy your HE400 from? I dont see they selling it on amazon anymore, except some 3rd unknown party ppl.
> ...



That's kinda steep. You could probably get one off the for sale forum for $150 less. Great headphone though.


----------



## Detrimentation

Hey guys, new user here 
  
 As of right now I'm using a Sennheiser GAME One Stereo Headset, and although I've been fine with Stereo I'd like to try out virtual surround, whether Dolby Headphone or SBX. Now, I have an old Astro Mixamp Pro that I'd like to use so that I can seamlessly listen to sound from my PC and Xbox One simultaneously. However, I have a Xonar DGX soundcard and if I have the mini-usb power cable connected to the PC and the optical connected to the Xbox One, then is my sound card redundant? Would I have to upgrade to the Astro TR mixamp if I wanted to use my sound card with this console-pc setup?
  
 Furthermore, I've considered SBX because of the higher quality sound (although from what I can gather positioning is slightly worse). Is it possible to use, for instance, the Sound Blaster Z soundcard with the Astro Mixamp and use SBX instead of Dolby Headphone? Or would I need a X7 for that? Should I even get a Sound Blaster Z and go for an external DAC and AMP instead? Sound Blaster G5? X-Fi Titanium vs Sound Blaster Z?
  
 Sorry for asking so many questions, just want to get the best audio experience possible


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Btw, where did you buy your HE400 from? I dont see they selling it on amazon anymore, except some 3rd unknown party ppl.




Also, why the sudden interest? Lol. I got it because it's a special headphone to me, but it's not without faults. Certain ranges are punishingly hot on the ears, like some female vocals/speech. Soundstage isn't huge, though depth and imaging is excellent (as with most planars). I could stand a little more warmth in the bass for personal use, but I tweaked that myself and got the results I wanted.

This weekend, I'm gonna attempt to lower the ranges where it gets sizzly and see if I can find the best balance. Though to be honest, I don't need it. I love the HE-400 as is. Just wanna see what correcting the shortcomings can do. I don't normally ever like to EQ, but since I'm gonna try and not be an idiot by selling this time around, I wanna make it as easy on the ears as possible.

I would honestly suggest some of the newer stuff for everyone else, because I'm honestly gonna say the HE400 is a headphone you either love or hate, lie the DT990. There really isn't an in between.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry for the double posts guys. It takes forever on mobile to edit with my bad work connection.



detrimentation said:


> Hey guys, new user here
> 
> As of right now I'm using a Sennheiser GAME One Stereo Headset, and although I've been fine with Stereo I'd like to try out virtual surround, whether Dolby Headphone or SBX. Now, I have an old Astro Mixamp Pro that I'd like to use so that I can seamlessly listen to sound from my PC and Xbox One simultaneously. However, I have a Xonar DGX soundcard and if I have the mini-usb power cable connected to the PC and the optical connected to the Xbox One, then is my sound card redundant? Would I have to upgrade to the Astro TR mixamp if I wanted to use my sound card with this console-pc setup?
> 
> ...




All of that sounds confusing. First, don't use Mixamps with PC gaming. Unless you can get a dolby digital out from the PC to the Mixamp's optical input, you ain't gonna get virtual surround. I mean, you CAN with your DGX, but there are better amps for that.

The Xonar DGX have an optical out? From the images online, it sure looks like it. If it's anything like the Xonar U3 (which is the external usb equivalent of the Xonar DG), the Xonar control panel allows you to either send unprocessed Dolby Digital to the spdif out, or PCM (in which you can enable Dolby Headphone) to an external dac that has an spdif in.

And no, you CANNOT use soundcards with consoles like the XB1. The DGX is a good candidate for PC use, since sending things through the spdif, means you can use better dac/amps with it.

That leaves you with something needed for consoles.

I would just say to just get something like the X7 and take care of all your needs. As for chat use, I'll leave that to the others to answer, since I'm a loner type gamer, and when I chat on Ps4 I go the cheap route of plugging to the controller, and losing my good sound.

That way, you at least have a choice of the X7's SBX, or the DGX's Dolby Headphone being piped to the X7's spdif in (making sure SBX is disabled when you do this).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

New day, new post, about OG HE-400.

So, looks like the X7's EQ is too separated in the frequencies to dial in the problem areas.The X7 has a slider for 4K, 8K, and 16K. That's borderline useless for the HE-400, because the problem areas are but a miniscule section at 5khz, 7khz, and 9khz. If I use the X7's sliders for the broad ranges, it will effectively mute other areas which are already recessed (i.e. 7.5khz is very recessed), even in close proximity to the peaky areas there.

I'd need one hell of a hardware EQ to truly dial in and soften these areas.

I much rather live with them, since they don't bother me too much, aside from once in a blue.

As for the HE-400 and bass EQ... until you've heard what full on planar drivers can do with bass, you simply do not know. Think of ANY open dynamic headphone that can easily push the 20-40hz frequencies. That's right, you won't find any. You need a some strong magnets to push a lot of air, which only planars like the HE400 can do.

So when you EQ planars like the HE400 and its big drivers, it's almost like subwoofer air movement.

If you're not against EQ, I would say the HE400 makes the best open headphone for bass.

I wouldn't consider the same for the newer Hifimans because they now only have single sided magnet arrays instead of dual sided. That's half the magnets, I assume meaning half the power to push the driver back and forth. That's probably why they are all known to have less bass than the older planar designs (HE-5LE, HE-6, HE-400, HE-500).

Can dynamics do bass well? Sure... if it's closed back design, which isn't an issue for planars. And the presentation is different. Hard to explain to those who hasn't experienced planar bass.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> New day, new post, about OG HE-400.
> 
> So, looks like the 7's EQ is too separated in the frequencies to dial in the problem areas.The X7 has a slider for 4K, 8K, and 16K. That's borderline useless for the HE-400, because the problem areas are but a miniscule section at 5khz, 7khz, and 9khz. If I use the X7's sliders for the broad ranges, it will effectively mute other areas which are already quite recessed, even in close proximity to the peaky areas there.
> 
> ...




You might want to try sticking a little square of sorbothane (about the size of your fingernail) about half an inch or so behind where the cable attaches on the outside of the headphone. This cancels out a particularly troublesome vibration.

Other things that seem to help: FocusPad offers a little bit of upper midrange lift that calms the contrast with the treble - you may or may not like this one, MLE. I'm guessing most people would, but given your taste for the original coloration, I'm thinking you might not like the change. If you can find a pair of the 2011 velours, that would really be the ticket. They are more comfortable and don't have as much of a spike, but they keep the stock coloration. I wouldn't know how to go about finding these... I lucked into mine, and they are awesome.


----------



## Change is Good

1540 pads?


----------



## NamelessPFG

Wait, there's only single-sided magnets in their current drivers?
  
 I thought half the appeal of a planar driver configuration, whether electromagnetically or electrostatically driven, was the balanced "diaphragm sandwiched between two elements" push-pull approach to driver design.
  
 I guess they have to keep costs down and keep their range separated somehow.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nameless, ever sinvce the HE-560, HFM has gone the way of single sided arrays. So in reality, they're not traditional planar designs anymore. Something newer-ish, though they tested the water with the HE-4 all those years ago, that was underappreciated. It lightens the headphones considerably, and gives planars more air, at the expense of the 'weight' of both the sound and actual heft, lol. Only basing this off my experience with the HE-4 and impressions by others. I'm sure the single sided setup can still sound warm and hefty, but then we're just talking about tuning there, and not technical benefits. I guess the benefit of being single sided, is that there is no blockage of the air moving from the driver outwards. The JPS Abyss is also single sided, though I think the array taken out was the inner one.

Hanso, I'm using the Focuspads.

Change, I was gonna get the 1540 pads, but I'm quite pleased with the Focuspads. I wish I hadn't sold my last pair so I could compare.

Objectively, I still say the velours sound the best (sharper, tighter, less upper mid recession), but since I prefer the Focuspads comfort, I can deal with the darker upper mid range.


----------



## Hansotek

Lol, how about that! Yeah, I agree - so much more comfortable. Yeah, maybe try the sorbothane then. You can get a 6" X 8" square of it on Amazon for about $10. That basically equates to a lifetime supply of the stuff, as it takes very, very little to tame the treble spike in most headphones. I've been enjoying the heck out of my HE400 lately!


----------



## Mackem

Not sure what good options there are for comfortable, circumaural headphones that work with the BoomPro and are good for pop music / games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not many higher end options with detachable cables.

Always default to the Philips X2, though weith people having issues with the newer ones having glued on pads, questionable manufacturing, I just don't know how confident I am in them anymore. A big reason why people wanted the X2 over the X1 is the removable pads. It looks like somehow they reverted to X1 standards. I don't know.


----------



## Evshrug

Imitation products, perhaps? New manufacturing plant, and they read the assembly instructions wrong?


Mackem,
BoomPro isn't the ONLY way to add a mic, but there is a section of the first post specifically for listing headphones known to work with the BoomPro.

There are MANY high-end headphones with detachable cables, but to work with a BoomPro they need to have a single-sided entry and not have a proprietary connection.


----------



## Sam21

I have a Q40 which is compatible with boompro, changed the pads to DT770 velours which reduced the bass and increased the soundstage. the Bass on these is insane, Imagine an XB500 with clear and forward mids and smooth highs. The Soundstage is good too. The only issue it has is the clamp. You have to stretch the headband for sometime... they loosen up overtime.


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> I have a Q40 which is compatible with boompro, changed the pads to DT770 velours which reduced the bass and increased the soundstage. the Bass on these is insane, Imagine an XB500 with clear and forward mids and smooth highs. The Soundstage is good too. The only issue it has is the clamp. You have to stretch the headband for sometime... they loosen up overtime.


 
 What's Q40? never heard that headphone before.


----------



## Sam21

http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-Closed-back-Dynamic-Headphones/dp/B000XT8JTM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451190196&sr=8-1&keywords=q40


----------



## MattKelly

Would anyone here be interested in making some MixAmp Pro TR equalizer presets? It's crazy how much a simple EQ can change aspects such as footsteps and gunshots in competitive FPS. To be honest, I'm really unfamiliar with equalizers, and while I can play around with the Astro Command Center a bit to change the sounds inside of Black Ops 3, I know that if someone with the right knowledge were to really fine tune a preset for competitive purposes, it could be a huge edge. I'd be willing to join some private matches and run around in circles to help obtain the frequency response of things like footsteps, player boosting, weapon switching, etc. I'd love to max out my setup for competitive CoD (K7XX + MixAmp TR - which btw, I didn't end up needing to double amp!). Anyways, here's the default "tournament" preset that Astro made up for competitive use. There's definitely some room for improvement...


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> Would anyone here be interested in making some MixAmp Pro TR equalizer presets? It's crazy how much a simple EQ can change aspects such as footsteps and gunshots in competitive FPS. To be honest, I'm really unfamiliar with equalizers, and while I can play around with the Astro Command Center a bit to change the sounds inside of Black Ops 3, I know that if someone with the right knowledge were to really fine tune a preset for competitive purposes, it could be a huge edge. I'd be willing to join some private matches and run around in circles to help obtain the frequency response of things like footsteps, player boosting, weapon switching, etc. I'd love to max out my setup for competitive CoD (K7XX + MixAmp TR - which btw, I didn't end up needing to double amp!). Anyways, here's the default "tournament" preset that Astro made up for competitive use. There's definitely some room for improvement...



Lower the bass and add upper mid frequencies.


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> Lower the bass and add upper mid frequencies.


 
 That was my first thought too, and while it does make some improvement, it's surprising how much of the Black Ops 3 footstep comes from the lower bass frequencies. It's like it has three parts: the main tap of the foot, the thumping bass portion of it, and a sleight echo afterwards. Dropping the bass too much "feels" like I'm losing a lot of the footstep. Although it does isolate the main clacking and tapping sound of the feet. I feel like there are so many different ways I could take this EQ, and each one makes a surprisingly large difference. If it's any help, I'm using Supercrunch as my BO3 audio setting.


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> That was my first thought too, and while it does make some improvement, it's surprising how much of the Black Ops 3 footstep comes from the lower bass frequencies. It's like it has three parts: the main tap of the foot, the thumping bass portion of it, and a sleight echo afterwards. Dropping the bass too much "feels" like I'm losing a lot of the footstep. Although it does isolate the main clacking and tapping sound of the feet. I feel like there are so many different ways I could take this EQ, and each one makes a surprisingly large difference. If it's any help, I'm using Supercrunch as my BO3 audio setting.



Supercrunch is megacompressed. Try using hifi or large speakers or whatever it is called now. Lower the music and dialogue volume then in the mixamp lower the bass. 2013 mixamp has a Pro preset whick lowered the bass significantly which really helped pinpoibt footsteps among all the 'splosions.


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> Supercrunch is megacompressed. Try using hifi or large speakers or whatever it is called now. Lower the music and dialogue volume then in the mixamp lower the bass. 2013 mixamp has a Pro preset whick lowered the bass significantly which really helped pinpoibt footsteps among all the 'splosions.


 
 I know that was the case with Black Ops 2, but I swear Black Ops 3 might be different, haha. Truthfully, I could be totally wrong here, but just going off of my experience, Supercrunch makes footsteps laughably louder. The other viable presets are called "Headphones" and "High Boost". There is a theory that Supercrunch just makes _everything_ louder though (as opposed to just high frequencies) so maybe I'm mistaking an overall increase in volume as "louder footsteps". I have music and dialogue turned off (always!) and I'm going to experiment some more with dropping the lowest bass slider in Astro's Command Center (although it noticeably eliminates the thumping bass of the footstep - hmm..). As far as introducing more upper-mid frequencies, what range is that in your opinion? Maybe 2.5Khz - 5Khz? Here's what I'm going to experiment with next - Black Ops 3 High Boost setting and this EQ:


----------



## Yethal

mattkelly said:


> I know that was the case with Black Ops 2, but I swear Black Ops 3 might be different, haha. Truthfully, I could be totally wrong here, but just going off of my experience, Supercrunch makes footsteps laughably louder. The other viable presets are called "Headphones" and "High Boost". There is a theory that Supercrunch just makes _everything_ louder though (as opposed to just high frequencies) so maybe I'm mistaking an overall increase in volume as "louder footsteps". I have music and dialogue turned off (always!) and I'm going to experiment some more with dropping the lowest bass slider in Astro's Command Center (although it noticeably eliminates the thumping bass of the footstep - hmm..). As far as introducing more upper-mid frequencies, what range is that in your opinion? Maybe 2.5Khz - 5Khz? Here's what I'm going to experiment with next - Black Ops 3 High Boost setting and this EQ:



Supercrunch does make everything louder. Dunno about frequency ranges though, I'd just start a custom game with one bot and have the eq on the second screen and adjust it on the fly. Do You run Amplify + Dead Silence onYour classes?


----------



## MattKelly

yethal said:


> Supercrunch does make everything louder. Dunno about frequency ranges though, I'd just start a custom game with one bot and have the eq on the second screen and adjust it on the fly. Do You run Amplify + Dead Silence onYour classes?


 
 I do run awareness + dead silence, yeah! Using high boost and the EQ I posted most recently isn't giving me nearly as precise positioning, unfortunately. The footsteps seem so much more subtle without the bass portion of their sound. This is tricky!


----------



## Change is Good

So, I'm currently changing pads on a used 9500 I bought about a week ago. What the hell is up with Philips using unnecessary excess glue on all their headphones?


----------



## PotfOra

Hi, I just cant find the answer for this so I´m asking here.
 I´ve got PS4 hooked to my pc monitor via HDMI->DVI so there´s no sound that way. As of now I´m using controller headphone out to pc line-in. So I can hear both, PC and PS4 on my speakers and headphones (both connected to onboard pc card). That way my controller isn´t "wireless" and sound lvl from my headphones connected via front panel on pc are kinda low. So what I need to make it better? There are some ideas:
 1) PS4 optical out -> Fiio D03k Taishan -> PC line in. I guess this is more or less the same as above. If so volume lvls will be still somewhat low. But I get rid of chord connected to ps4 controller
 2)PS4 optical out -> Fiio E17 -> PC line in . Its DAC/AMP so the volume should be much better. But can I use headphone out to PC line in? I guess that mean double amping? Can I do this without sound degradation? Advantage is I can use E17 for PC,notebook etc. if needed.
 3) PS4 optical out -> Creative Sound Blaster Z - It should work as above + it has built in headphone amp. So I guess that should work ok. How about sound wise? Seems like drivers from creative are pretty bad and that heapdhone amp isn´t great either.
  
 Or can i use D03k to pc line-in and then use some amp just for headphones from pc? Thing is I´m using both - headset and speakers 50:50 and I don´t want to fiddle with cables every time.


----------



## Mackem

evshrug said:


> Imitation products, perhaps? New manufacturing plant, and they read the assembly instructions wrong?
> 
> 
> Mackem,
> ...


 
 Oh, I know it's not the only way, it's just extremely convenient.


----------



## jynxed

Just wondering if somepme wpuld please give me some advice about a mix amp for ps4 please?

I have been looking about and so far found 3 different versions avaliable and I'm clueless about which one to buy or if they are all pretty much the same with no major leap in quality?

There is:
Mix amp TR - £100
Mix amp pro - £80 (sometimes listed as the 2015 or the 2nd gen it has white striped strip on it)
Mix amp pro - £45 (2013 version)

Any of them hiss really bad? Is the 2013 editition good value or will I just hear hisssiness at normal levels on my low impeadance x2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apparently the TR no longer has the bass hiss of it's previous versions.

The only other one worthwhile is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASTRO-A40-WORKING-MIXAMP-PRO-DOLBY-SURROUND-7-1-AMPLIFIER-w-USB-cable-/181895077543?hash=item2a59ca9ea7:g:yUoAAOSwWKtUwqif



If it's old, and doesn't look like this, it's gonna be hissy.

1st gen is also really good on hiss, but has no usb chat function whatsoever.

I don't mind the hiss too much, since I'm too busy playing the game to let it bother me, at least when it came to the Mixamp 5.8. The benefit of wireless far outweighed the hiss. of course the benefit only makes sense with headphones that weren't hard to drive, since you don't wanna pair up an amp with a wireless device.


----------



## jynxed

Well Im not too bad with hois but find it can become distracting at times. 

Thanks for the advice.

Edit: oh cool yoi found a gen 1 that ships to uk. Thanks


----------



## burritoboy9984

mad lust envy said:


> Apparently the TR no longer has the bass hiss of it's previous versions.
> 
> The only other one worthwhile is:
> 
> ...




So would you say the TR has the best SQ so far?

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Haven't heard the TR. Going off what I was told. Last one I heard was the 2013.

Also that's actually Gen 2 pictured. Gen 1 has a similar layout, but different aesthetic, knobs.


----------



## jthom320

I have the TR.  I changed my main set up over to an X7.  Obviously there is a rather large price gulf so this isn't going to be an option for everyone.
  
 I did not get any hiss until I put the sound level way up.  I wasn't getting any hiss even with no sound playing until about 80/90%.  This is about the same as my X7 and keep in mind that more then likely you will never be using it that loud unless you are usuing particularly hard to drive headphones in which case you are probably double amping anyway.
  
 Reason I switched is there was no chance the TR was going to be able to drive my HD700's and I wasn't huge on the idea of double amping.  
  
 I've since run my HD700's on my TR and to be honest it does a fine job on it's own however with a mic included the volume is only barely passable and it sounds thin. 
  
 I have to say though.  I know MLE in the past has said he prefers the positional audio of the mixamp to the X7.  I tend to fall on the other side of that.  With SBX I feel the positional cues are as good or better and SBX tends to handle sounds that are above you better.
  
 To give a specific example if I was hearing a UAV in COD with the mixamp I could locate the direction but not the height.  With SBX I can tell it's above me.  
  
 Personal preference and it could just be my ears but if you have the cash I'd recomend the X7 but at the same time add that the Mixamp TR is a fine product.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thing with vertical sounds is that there is absolutely no way for them to do that. There is 5 channels with various crossovers betrween them. If you hear above you, that's your own brain tricking you, and not actual SBX doing some crazy DSP mixing. These DSPs are doing basic front and back speaker simulation, with no vertical offsets.

Might be easier for SBX because the soundstage doesn't expand as well as Dolby Headphone. It still sounds like a headphone doing surround, wherre the center channel would be closer to your head, and since sounds literally go to the center of your head, that may trick one into hearing things as above. DH would obviously spread the sound much further like speakers not right next to you.

Hell, I have my SBX surround at 100%. When I listen to something in stereo, sometimes I forget that the surround is on. It's not a drastic difference compared to DH.

I LIKE hearing the simulated room setup. If it sounds like just a headphone with surround, it's not enough for me, generally. That's why I have such a hard time discerning what's front and back compared to DH which makes it blatantly obvious and easy to track.

If there was an X7 equivalent for Dolby Headphone, my X7 would be gone.

When you toggle that DH button from stereo to DH, it's like someone blew out the walls and converted the area into an open room. With SBX, toggling the surround button is like... "Oh, okay, now I get decent positional cues". It's not as impressive to me, not in the same way. I can see the benefoit of SBX, since it doesn't alter a headphone's inherent sound nowhere near as much DH, which makes it no longer sound like a headphone at all, but speakers.


Vertical sound positioning is something PC games used to do, IIRC. Binaural is certainly capable of doing it, but I don't think we'll ever get devices to do it. Dolby Atmos stuff, sure, but in gaming tech? Doubtful. Game companies don't REALLY care about audio.


----------



## jthom320

Well like I said in my initial post it could totally be my ears.  And I'm sure there is some confirmation bias with me liking my 400 dollar toy more then my 100 dollar toy.
  
 I just can't drive HD700's and a mic well with it.  Too thin and I lose the extra bass vs my 598's which is what the entire upgrade was mostly about.
  
 Also I do think the Mixamp TR is a really solid product especially for 100ish dollars they want for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, on that I agree. Hell, I ONLY have the X7.

That's why I wish Astro or someone made a Mixamp as good as the X7.


----------



## Detrimentation

With Sound Blaster recently adding 7.1 surround sound to the E5, I hope that they SOMEHOW update the G5 to allow consoles to use SBX. PLZ!!!


----------



## jincuteguy

So just recently I started to have some pop / crackle noise issue with my X7, not with the USB connection, but the Dolby Digital connection from my REaltek Optical out to the X7 that encodes Dolby Digital Live.
  
 My motherboard is an Asus X99-A and it has the Realtek HD Audio 1150.  I just found out that I can get it unlocked for Dolby Digital Live.  So after I did that and everything went well.
 My Realtek HD audio now can do Dolby Digital Live out via the Optical output.
  
 I hooked up my X7 to the Realtek HD via the Optical cable.  The Dolby Digital button in the middle of my X7 lights up and I know it's working.  
 But just couple days ago, for some reason, there's pop / crackle noise every now and then whenever I play music, or play games.  
  
 If I used the USB (not Dolby Digital) connection with just SBX surround, then all audio plays fine.
  
 So I don't know if anyone has this issue?
  
 Im thinking about maybe it's the Unlocked REaltek HD driver? And I might need a Xonar U3 or a sound card that can do Dolby Digital Live?


----------



## jthom320

mad lust envy said:


> Oh, on that I agree. Hell, I ONLY have the X7.
> 
> That's why I wish Astro or someone made a Mixamp as good as the X7.


 

 When the new TR stuff released they had a guy on Neogaf answering questions about the product.  One of the things brought up was a mixamp that would drive higher impedance headphones.  He said something along the lines of it being discussed and he'd report it to the engineering team.  Nothing solid of course.
  
 I'd love if they did something like that to but they see things through the lens of selling headphones.  Unfortunately it's probably not that likely we get a product like that.
  
 Who knows though.  There's definitely room for a premium option.
  
 As an aside do you have any idea why Creative's offering don't support Dolby headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't see them making a product like that simply because of their overwhelming desire to push A30s and A40s bundles to everyone.

Creative made the X7 because they are a lot more broad with their products, and don't feel the need to tie stuff like the X7 with their own line of headphones.

As for why they wouldn't use DH, Creative has been using in house virtual surround solutions for years. They are essentially a competitor. CMSS-3D and SBX are Creative made. Dolby Headphone needs licensing.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, I noticed Astro only cares about their headset distribution, not standalone processors. Heck, a new and improved 5.8 would sell like hot cakes... but noooooooo.

Glad I have two, both with PS chat cables. Since they are discontinued and probably will never hit the market again, I thought it would be wise to have one as backup (especially for what I paid).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, no kidding. I'm absolutely regretting basically giving my 5.8 with all the goodies away for practically nothing to some lucky person here.

Update on the HE400. I reverted back to the velour pads today. I seriously do think they sound better than the Focuspads, despite not being AS comfy. They also keep my ears cooler. The Focus pads are essentially sealed like pleathers, just with velour top.

Also, since I have basically nothing to do tonight at work, I may get started on a short Creative JAM writeup.


----------



## Fegefeuer

SBX + HD 800 "projects" the center to the screen. I never had the center in my head. Also mentioned this many many months ago. Can't say much about other headphones. HW700 from Sony has the dreaded "center in my head" effect for sure. Unfortunately. If it didn't have that flaw + output for own headphones, then it would be the better choice over the X7 as it has HDMI support + PCM + DTSHD/Dolby True HD.


----------



## wadec22

mad lust envy said:


> When you toggle that DH button from stereo to DH, it's like someone blew out the walls and converted the area into an open room. With SBX, toggling the surround button is like... "Oh, okay, now I get decent positional cues". It's not as impressive to me, not in the same way. I can see the benefoit of SBX, since it doesn't alter a headphone's inherent sound nowhere near as much DH, which makes it no longer sound like a headphone at all, but speakers.


 
 I got my x7 hooked up a couple days ago and have done a lot of testing but mostly just with one game - Destiny on PS4.  Now having disclosed that part....
  
 I get what you are saying with DH in that it sounds tremendously different once engaged.  I find that to be the major flaw of the mixamp, I despise the "box" feel of the audio.  The x7 has been a blessing with SBX at 100%.  For my simple testing I went to patrol in cosmodrome and headed to the waterfall in the gratto/loot cave area.  I closed my eyes and spun my character in a 360 to see how well I could discern where the waterfall was.  With DH, it gets incredibly hard to distinguish once behind you.  With SBX it is like having a high res radar.   The ability of SBX to track behind for me is vastly superior to DH.  Taking that into account and the box/cave reverb of DH being gone is amazing.
  
 Having said all that I still much prefer DH implementation on the Xonar cards over the mixamp where the difference would probably not be so drastic.
  
 I do agree with you about height though.  CMSS-3D was able to do it well in games written with the proper audio API -  which was damn near like cheating.  Unfortunately, those days are long gone.
  
 Just sharing as these things can be so subjective.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I had DHP for years, the problem is the loss of quality and the echo. The better your headphone the more obvious it gets. When you walk over grass in Skyrim or in the Witcher in an open landscape and you get reverb/echo it's immerion killing. I'm often in the mountains and I don't get echo when running over the field. CMSS-3D was a pain in a few games and certain headphones. 
  
 I get the blending effect though, it's like a classic cinema of life and death, no microscopic scientific analysis. Pure Arnie vs. Predator immersion. 
  
 We're moving towards geometry/object based audio anyway so sooner or later speaker rooms will be gone.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Out of curiosity what form of 7.1 Virtual Surround Sound does Sony use on their Pulse Elite headphones? Is it their own bespoke technology?
Or is it Dolby or DTS? Is it any good?


----------



## wadec22

helvetica bold said:


> Out of curiosity what form of 7.1 Virtual Surround Sound does Sony use on their Pulse Elite headphones? Is it their own bespoke technology?
> Or is it Dolby or DTS? Is it any good?


 
  
 it's their own proprietary algorithm/system, all based on stereo.  No - it's not very good.


----------



## Detrimentation

Yeah any headphones with integrated surround sound are pretty much always bad. My dad uses Krakens, I tried them out and I found stereo to be better for positional audio. I don't even want to get started on the sound quality!
  
 Btw, thanks a ton Mad Lust Envy for the ebay link to the Mixamp Pro 2011, I just ordered it to replace my 2013 Mixamp. I've never needed any of the presets anyway, and if the mic quality and hissing is improved then it is definitely worth it for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Nvm, confused myself


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Mixamp 2011 has NO USB PS4 chat function, IIRC. You'd have to buy the Turtle Beach PS4 chat cable that goes from the DS4 to the Mixamp's controller input.




It does. I was using the one I bought from you way back when before picking up a 5.8


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What am I thinking of then? I'm confusing myself. My friend has a Mixamp and uses the USB function.

SMH, my bad. I'm confusing something. Now I can't remember.

edit: THE 5.8. DUH.

Disregard guys, I'm an idiot. You need the TB chat cable if you have a Mixamp 5.8 without that special usb cable that is ridiculously hard to find now.


----------



## Yethal

potfora said:


> Hi, I just cant find the answer for this so I´m asking here.
> I´ve got PS4 hooked to my pc monitor via HDMI->DVI so there´s no sound that way. As of now I´m using controller headphone out to pc line-in. So I can hear both, PC and PS4 on my speakers and headphones (both connected to onboard pc card). That way my controller isn´t "wireless" and sound lvl from my headphones connected via front panel on pc are kinda low. So what I need to make it better? There are some ideas:
> 1) PS4 optical out -> Fiio D03k Taishan -> PC line in. I guess this is more or less the same as above. If so volume lvls will be still somewhat low. But I get rid of chord connected to ps4 controller
> 2)PS4 optical out -> Fiio E17 -> PC line in . Its DAC/AMP so the volume should be much better. But can I use headphone out to PC line in? I guess that mean double amping? Can I do this without sound degradation? Advantage is I can use E17 for PC,notebook etc. if needed.
> ...



What is Your budget?


----------



## PotfOra

yethal said:


> What is Your budget?


 
  
 Maybe something around 100-150USD?


----------



## Yethal

potfora said:


> Maybe something around 100-150USD?



Well, Mixamps do have a lot of inputs. See if Your motherboard has coaxial output and if it does buy a 2011 mixamp then connect it to both the pc and ps4.


----------



## Chubupanda

Hey everyone so I asked all you wonderful people a year ago about a possible setup I was doing with my ps4 and which headphones I should get. Well long story short I settled on the vmoda m-100 with boompro And was blown away at the upgrade from my old turtle beaches. Well I did a lot of researched since then and just a few minutes ago I bought on impulse a pair of Philips Fidelio x2's for about 186 and now to my question. Would it be worth it to get the uber schiit stack for gaming/listening to music or does it not even matter.


----------



## Hansotek

chubupanda said:


> Hey everyone so I asked all you wonderful people a year ago about a possible setup I was doing with my ps4 and which headphones I should get. Well long story short I settled on the vmoda m-100 with boompro And was blown away at the upgrade from my old turtle beaches. Well I did a lot of researched since then and just a few minutes ago I bought on impulse a pair of Philips Fidelio x2's for about 186 and now to my question. Would it be worth it to get the uber schiit stack for gaming/listening to music or does it not even matter.



Are you already using a Mixamp or similar for gaming surround sound? If you don't have a surround processor, I'd recommend taking care of that first to enhance your gaming fun. Then worry about amp and DAC for your music needs. Schiit stack will make a moderate improvement for music. Surround processor will make a large improvement for gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, no kidding. I'm absolutely regretting basically giving my 5.8 with all the goodies away for practically nothing to some lucky person here.


 

 I can agree with this sentiment. I had the 5.8 once and sold it. Eventually I missed the little Mixamp and ordered another. I won't be letting this one go any time soon.


----------



## Chubupanda

hansotek said:


> Are you already using a Mixamp or similar for gaming surround sound? If you don't have a surround processor, I'd recommend taking care of that first to enhance your gaming fun. Then worry about amp and DAC for your music needs. Schiit stack will make a moderate improvement for music. Surround processor will make a large improvement for gaming.




Yeah I've actually delt with surround sound for gaming multiple times within my lifetime and I'm actually not a big fan of the whole virtual surround sound to me it actually doesn't sound as good as stereo but to each their own some of my friends love it some hate it I personally think its fun but not necessarily needed I pick up all the directional queues on my vmoda m-100's just fine and personally love the sound of stereo I just wanted an opinion on whether or not a dac and amp would improve the sound quality of music or gaming enough to justify buying the uber schiit stack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're not going to use virtual surround, just get the Schiit stack. Better internals, power, etc.


----------



## Change is Good

As good as Schiit is, I'd advise to go with Audio-gd at the $300 price range. You get way more bang for buck, just no rca input (which in his situation he won't need anyway).


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> As good as Schiit is, I'd advise to go with Audio-gd at the $300 price range. You get way more bang for buck, just no rca input (which in his situation he won't need anyway).


 
 I do love Audio-GD.
  
 Unless he decided to go tubes. In which case, Schiit modi2u + Vali 2 is an amazing choice.


----------



## Gdubz

Just picked up the Mixamp Pro TR and have been using that with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones for a little while now on Xbox One... Just picked up the new A40 TR headset yesterday to see if it's any better than the old A40's that I used like 4 years ago on the Xbox 360. Maybe it's just me, but the headset just seems terrible. Compared to the HD558's it just seems like all the sound is muffled and like there's too much bass. It also seems significantly underpowered compared to the HD558s. The same volume (~60% on the mixamp) produces near ear-splitting sound and I've basically got the max out the sound dial for the A40's and still seems lacking.
  
 Should I just return the A40's or am do I have a bad headset? Anyone else have A40 TR + Mixamp Pro TR and have any similar experience?
  
 I wanted a more complete headset instead of just headphones, which is the only reason I even purchased it. That and I already had the mixamp. I just recently remembered this guide and kinda wish I had reviewed this again before buying anything, but alas...
  
 Addendum: I feel its worth noting that I'm a relative newb when it comes to audio, I just want to get the best experience I can for FPS console gaming. I've also got a pair of ATH M50X that I've got at work for listening to music, don't know why I haven't brought them home to try for gaming yet.


----------



## Change is Good

Just get a Boompro and a compatible headphone to plug and play on the mixamp. HD598? X2? SHP9500?

I personally now use the SHP9500.


----------



## Chubupanda

mad lust envy said:


> If you're not going to use virtual surround, just get the Schiit stack. Better internals, power, etc.




Yeah that was my initial thought.



change is good said:


> As good as Schiit is, I'd advise to go with Audio-gd at the $300 price range. You get way more bang for buck, just no rca input (which in his situation he won't need anyway).




Yeah i dont really need rca but i havent really looked into audio-gd what model do you suggest because i dont evven know where to start.


----------



## Change is Good

chubupanda said:


> Yeah that was my initial thought.
> Yeah i dont really need rca but i havent really looked into audio-gd what model do you suggest because i dont evven know where to start.




NFB 11. The 15 (what I have) would have been another option but it's now discontinued.


----------



## Gdubz

change is good said:


> Just get a Boompro and a compatible headphone to plug and play on the mixamp. HD598? X2? SHP9500?
> 
> I personally now use the SHP9500.


 
 If I've already got the HD558 it wouldn't really be worth it to upgrade to the HD598, would it? What's the next step up from there? HD600 or HD650?
  
 If so, then I'll also need a dac/amp too?


----------



## Change is Good

gdubz said:


> If I've already got the HD558 it wouldn't really be worth it to upgrade to the HD598, would it? What's the next step up from there? HD600 or HD650?
> 
> If so, then I'll also need a dac/amp too?




My point is, no headphone will be much of an audio upgrade if gaming on console with a mixamp. The whole point of console gaming is simplicity (right?), which is what I was suggesting. Does your HD558 have a 3.5mm input?

Edit: never mind, scratch the 558/598. What you will want for a more headset-like feel for FPS console gaming is something like the Philips X1, X2, or SHP9500, with a Vmoda Boompro mic. That will basically be just plug and play with your mixamp, with some slight workarounds on XBox in regards to plugging something into the controller (which I'm sure you are already used to).


----------



## Chubupanda

change is good said:


> NFB 11. The 15 (what I have) would have been another option but it's now discontinued.




Cool looks like a good piece of equipment ill see how much everythong will come out too and see whats best for me. Thanks for the suggestion. Much appreciated


----------



## jincuteguy

gdubz said:


> Just picked up the Mixamp Pro TR and have been using that with my Sennheiser HD558 headphones for a little while now on Xbox One... Just picked up the new A40 TR headset yesterday to see if it's any better than the old A40's that I used like 4 years ago on the Xbox 360. Maybe it's just me, but the headset just seems terrible. Compared to the HD558's it just seems like all the sound is muffled and like there's too much bass. It also seems significantly underpowered compared to the HD558s. The same volume (~60% on the mixamp) produces near ear-splitting sound and I've basically got the max out the sound dial for the A40's and still seems lacking.
> 
> Should I just return the A40's or am do I have a bad headset? Anyone else have A40 TR + Mixamp Pro TR and have any similar experience?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Gaming headsets are terrible, any decent Headphone from decent brand are better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That new Logitech has both DH and DTS HP X though. Maybe Logitech can release an external DTS HP device


----------



## Fegefeuer

G933 7.1 DTS HPX doesn't work with many games since the new driver model doesn't rely on Windows Settings so you mostly get stereo as the device registers at 2.0.


----------



## Yethal

And it's PC only


----------



## Gdubz

change is good said:


> My point is, no headphone will be much of an audio upgrade if gaming on console with a mixamp. The whole point of console gaming is simplicity (right?), which is what I was suggesting. Does your HD558 have a 3.5mm input?
> 
> Edit: never mind, scratch the 558/598. What you will want for a more headset-like feel for FPS console gaming is something like the Philips X1, X2, or SHP9500, with a Vmoda Boompro mic. That will basically be just plug and play with your mixamp, with some slight workarounds on XBox in regards to plugging something into the controller (which I'm sure you are already used to).


 
 The reason I got the mixamp to begin with was because it allowed me to bypass the controller, adjust volume of the game/players individually, and eq adjustments. My controller's battery life tripled, approximately.
  
 I'll definitely look into the X2 or SHP9500 though, thanks for the recommendations.


----------



## Blze001

jincuteguy said:


> Gaming headsets are terrible, any decent Headphone from decent brand are better.


 
  
 This. Regardless of your system, spending $200 on headphones + mic is always gonna get you more than $200 on a gaming headset.


----------



## Fiscopath

My setup right now consists of the Phillips X2, MixAmp Pro TR and a ModMic with an Xbox One. When working the sound is great, only issue is the Xbox will forget the headphones every time I turn it off so when I reboot, I have to unplug the TR box and plug it back in and assign them again.
  
 Can anyone recommend a comparable headphone that might be physically a bit bigger?  Even after an hour or two the X2's just really hurt my head and are not comfortable.  I'm constantly finding myself taking them off in between rounds to give me head and ears a break.


----------



## alv4426

I got my mixamp pro tr on Monday and its a huge improvement on straight out of the Xbox one controller for me. Except that it gets kinda wonky in some games like forza 6 in that no matter what preset/stereo it's focused on the wrong sound. I'm trying to hear my cars engine I it's more focused on the cars around me or worse the background music. And there is no real "off" setting where it just gives me a default eq. And it seems mic quality is not as good as straight out of the Xbox controller either everyone I play with said that I don't sound as clear anymore (using boompro) but still good. Still it's a good little device I'd recommend, although it is expensive.


----------



## speakerlao

I finally got the MA900 over Christmas and also got the HD598 during Black Friday, and I gotta say, this guide has the "competitive" rating reversed on them! The M900 is in another league when it comes to sound positioning and soundstage. At first I thought this guide was on point, but I didn't realize earcup positioning on the MA900 could affect the sound so much.
  
 The sound stage on the HD598 sounds very compressed and narrow when compared to the MA900. It doesn't even sound close to being in the same ballpark to me. Yes, it's that big of a difference. The MA900 is literally the perfect headphone in my eyes. It's insanely comfortable, super light, amazing sound stage, and it has very good bass! The only real flaw to me is the certain bass tones/cues don't sound that great, but I've only heard it in about 2-3 songs in about 20 hours of use so far.
  
 Here are the HD598 getting packed up to sell:
  

  
 Edit: Forgot to mention another thing. I'm not sure why, but the MA900 also sounds a lot better when playing 2 sources at once. If you're playing music and a game at the same time, the Sony sounds like it has a background and foreground soundstage. The HD598 sounds like it's all mashed together.


----------



## DagsJT

fiscopath said:


> My setup right now consists of the Phillips X2, MixAmp Pro TR and a ModMic with an Xbox One. When working the sound is great, only issue is the Xbox will forget the headphones every time I turn it off so when I reboot, I have to unplug the TR box and plug it back in and assign them again.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a comparable headphone that might be physically a bit bigger?  Even after an hour or two the X2's just really hurt my head and are not comfortable.  I'm constantly finding myself taking them off in between rounds to give me head and ears a break.




I'm glad it's not just me that finds the X2s not quite there with comfort. They're a little too clamped for me and a little too much pressure from them.

Trying my colleagues HD650'S which feel like fluffy clouds on my ears, these feel like a literal weight on my head and ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One of the first thing you should do when getting the X2 is bending the headband outward.

This will turn the comfort from a 5 into a 9.

It's metal. Just do it little by little until you get the comfort/clamp you want.

I don't understand why people don't do this. This is something that pretty much needs to be done with every headphone that won't break under the stress. Clamp plays a huge role in comfort, and we all have preferences, which need adjustment on a per headphone basis.

Just grab the cups, and bend them outwards kinda like a bird flapping its wings. SLOWLY, and little by little.

As for the MA900, the reason competitive isn't as high, is because there is a pretty steep upper end rolloff making it not as clear as the 598. Granted it's been a long time since I heard the 598, and I don't remember it's sound pretty much at all these days. The MA900 is a great headphone that I can easily recommend if you can get for around $200 range. It's issues were that some people don't like their ears touching the driver padding, which is a necessity if you want optimal sound quality. That's just the way it's made. You try swapping pads or moving your ears away from the drivers, you lose sound quality. Simple as that. And as you said, it is very finicky with ear placement. It has a sweet spot, easily messed up if you try and mess around too much.


----------



## PacoTaco

Has anyone here tried out the THX00 with gaming yet? I'm thinking about picking that up when I sell my Element and HE-500 for just gaming (and use my HD650 as my music headphone.) I know you love the TH600/900, MLE, so I was curious if you'd tried the THX00 out yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope, and to be honest, don't expect me to hear anything new in a long time. Not financially able to do that anymore, nor do I have the same interest in the hobby as before.


----------



## PacoTaco

Ah, fair enough.


----------



## speakerlao

mad lust envy said:


> One of the first thing you should do when getting the X2 is bending the headband outward.
> 
> This will turn the comfort from a 5 into a 9.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hmmm.. I don't hear what you're saying about it not being as clear and upper rolloff, but everyone has different ears and opinions I guess. They both sound crystal clear to me in all areas of music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MA900 is quite soft in treble compared to others, particularly for gaming use. I'm fine with treble roll off, personally, but it's something people note since it can blunt upper nuances.


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> Has anyone here tried out the THX00 with gaming yet? I'm thinking about picking that up when I sell my Element and HE-500 for just gaming (and use my HD650 as my music headphone.) I know you love the TH600/900, MLE, so I was curious if you'd tried the THX00 out yet.




I have it, and while I enjoy quite much... nothing beats an open can with a flat tone for gaming. It's why I picked up the low cost SHP9500. Long term comfort has much to do with it, too. I can go hours watching movies and playing games, but my music sessions never last more than an hour. Critiquing sound, however, is not something I care much about while gaming. Tis' why I chose to downgrade for practicality. I get the same enjoyment while gaming with the SHP9500 as I have with any other headphone, and I've owned quite a few from the $200-$500 range. The 9500 can be had for cheap, so it was a no brainer for me.

As for music, I'm a mild basshead, and the TH-X00 tickles all my fancies. Same fancies the 1540 w/alpha pads satisfied, but better. I don't mind the absence of velour pads, because(as prior mentioned) I don't listen to music for more than hour a day. The TH-X00, regardless of its leather pads, is uber comfy for such short sessions and its sound melts my face every single time.


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> I have it, and while I enjoy quite much... nothing beats an open can with a flat tone for gaming. It's why I picked up the low cost SHP9500. Long term comfort has much to do with it, too. I can go hours watching movies and playing games, but my music sessions never last more than an hour. Critiquing sound, however, is not something I care much about while gaming. Tis' why I chose to downgrade for practicality. I get the same enjoyment while gaming with the SHP9500 as I have with any other headphone, and I've owned quite a few from the $200-$500 range. The 9500 can be had for cheap, so it was a no brainer for me.
> 
> As for music, I'm a mild basshead, and the TH-X00 tickles all my fancies. Same fancies the 1540 w/alpha pads satisfied, but better. I don't mind the absence of velour pads, because(as prior mentioned) I don't listen to music for more than hour a day. The TH-X00, regardless of its leather pads, is uber comfy for such short sessions and its sound melts my face every single time.


 
 I've been outside the whole competitive gaming schtick for a bit now. I was going for more immersion, which I assume would need a better balance of bass and detail. I had the Omni for a bit, and that seemed alright (but detail/resolution/clarity was lost due to the T50rp driver and the sound being as thick as it is.) While I have the HE500, it is too close to the HD650 for me, so I figured getting something completely different (and slightly V) like the Shure 1540 or the THX00 would be my best bet. At least with the THX00, I'd have a semi-open headphone.
  
 Though, to be honest, if a T1 gen 1 appeared at the same price point as the THX00 again, I'd jump on that in a heart beat.


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> I've been outside the whole competitive gaming schtick for a bit now. I was going for more immersion, which I assume would need a better balance of bass and detail. I had the Omni for a bit, and that seemed alright (but detail/resolution/clarity was lost due to the T50rp driver and the sound being as thick as it is.) While I have the HE500, it is too close to the HD650 for me, so I figured getting something completely different (and slightly V) like the Shure 1540 or the THX00 would be my best bet. At least with the THX00, I'd have a semi-open headphone.
> 
> Though, to be honest, if a T1 gen 1 appeared at the same price point as the THX00 again, I'd jump on that in a heart beat.




The 1540 may actually be a great choice for your gaming preference, then, as will the X00. If you can stand pleather for gaming sessions, go for the X00. If not,the 1540 with its stock alcantaras will be perfect for you. Light, super comfy, and semi-open-like because of the pads. Can be found for cheaper than the X00, too (sold my 1540 for $300, its approx rate for used).


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> The 1540 may actually be a great choice for your gaming preference, then, as will the X00. If you can stand pleather for gaming sessions, go for the X00. If not,the 1540 with its stock alcantaras will be perfect for you. Light, super comfy, and semi-open-like because of the pads. Can be found for cheaper than the X00, too (sold my 1540 for $300, its approx rate for used).


 
  That sounds like the best course of action for me. My end-game is probably going to end up being a HD800 and TH900 at some point in my life. Maybe when the bills stop being so horrid, haha. I have a pair of ZMF lambskin pads I would have switched out with the alcantaras to try out regardless, so p/leather doesn't bother me all that much.


----------



## shuto77

Can anyone recommend a decent usb lapel mic to pair with the X7 and PS4? I just jumped on a deal for two headphones that dont have standard 3.5mm detachable cables. 

I have the X7.


----------



## MusclePharm

I have currently a Schiit Modi non-uber version, was thinking of getting the uber version to connect to my Xbox One by toslink. However, after reading this guide, I might of changed my mind a little bit. In my case, would you recommend an MixAmp™ Pro TR instead of the Uber version of Modi? I'm interested on the directional audio...


----------



## Change is Good

musclepharm said:


> I have currently a Schiit Modi non-uber version, was thinking of getting the uber version to connect to my Xbox One by toslink. However, after reading this guide, I might of changed my mind a little bit. In my case, would you recommend an MixAmp™ Pro TR instead of the Uber version of Modi? I'm interested on the directional audio...




If you are interested in directional audio, the modi will not give that to you. It ultimately falls on what you really want. I get the sense that you want surround, so get a mixamp. Or, go a step further and get an all-in-one X7.




shuto77 said:


> Can anyone recommend a decent usb lapel mic to pair with the X7 and PS4? I just jumped on a deal for two headphones that dont have standard 3.5mm detachable cables.
> 
> I have the X7.




You may be better off just getting one of these

http://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bluetooth-audio-bt-w2-usb-transceiver

And hook up a clip on mic to the X7.

*Edit*: never mind, you are on XBox. Someone else can chime in.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> If you are interested in directional audio, the modi will not give that to you. It ultimately falls on what you really want. I get the sense that you want surround, so get a mixamp. Or, go a step further and get an all-in-one X7.
> You may be better off just getting one of these
> 
> http://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bluetooth-audio-bt-w2-usb-transceiver
> ...




I'm on PS4. I just bought the Boompro, but I just bought the Hifiman He400i (wanted to see the planar goodness at work), and the Beyerdynamic T70, though flawed, is good for both both metal music and decent for gaming, which are rare for a $200-300 closed headphone. 

I'm not at a desk or have a coffee table where I game, so I don't want a big usb mic.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> I'm on PS4. I just bought the Boompro, but I just bought the Hifiman He400i (wanted to see the planar goodness at work), and the Beyerdynamic T70, though flawed, is good for both both metal music and decent for gaming, which are rare for a $200-300 closed headphone.
> 
> I'm not at a desk or have a coffee table where I game, so I don't want a big usb mic.




PETEREK can make you an adapter for the 400i to work with the boompro, if interested. He can even mod that T70 to have a detachable option. I chose to mod my X00 in a similar manner, along with an adapter, so that I may game with them when I felt the need. Just look on his profile and hit up his website link to contact him for a quote.

Edit: tagged profile


----------



## Kazzuk

Can anyone recommend me a Headphone Amp in the UK for the AKG K612, will only be using it on my gaming PC. That EHP-O2 is out of stock (i'll drop them an email to check if they're going to stock any soon).
  
 I currently use a Xonar D2x soundcard and my only other options seem to be tube amps or SMSL sApII. I don't want to spend over £100 if possible. It seems the Fiio don't do a desktop headphone amp anymore, will a portable one work as a desktop headphone amp? Headphones will be used for 90% competitive gaming, so keeping the sound detailed and clear is very important.
  
 Cheers for any help.


----------



## Blze001

kazzuk said:


> Can anyone recommend me a Headphone Amp in the UK for the AKG K612, will only be using it on my gaming PC. That EHP-O2 is out of stock (i'll drop them an email to check if they're going to stock any soon).
> 
> I currently use a Xonar D2x soundcard and my only other options seem to be tube amps or SMSL sApII. I don't want to spend over £100 if possible. It seems the Fiio don't do a desktop headphone amp anymore, will a portable one work as a desktop headphone amp? Headphones will be used for 90% competitive gaming, so keeping the sound detailed and clear is very important.
> 
> Cheers for any help.


 
  
 Yeah, you can use a portable amp as a desktop one. That said, my experience has been that AKG headphones really like tube/hybrid amps, at least my Q701s seem to vastly prefer tube setups. I'm in the US, so I don't really know what options you have available to you in the UK.
  
 SMSL stuff is decent from what I've heard.


----------



## DagsJT

kazzuk said:


> Can anyone recommend me a Headphone Amp in the UK for the AKG K612, will only be using it on my gaming PC. That EHP-O2 is out of stock (i'll drop them an email to check if they're going to stock any soon).
> 
> I currently use a Xonar D2x soundcard and my only other options seem to be tube amps or SMSL sApII. I don't want to spend over £100 if possible. It seems the Fiio don't do a desktop headphone amp anymore, will a portable one work as a desktop headphone amp? Headphones will be used for 90% competitive gaming, so keeping the sound detailed and clear is very important.
> 
> Cheers for any help.


 
  
 From researching on the K7XX, it seems the Fiio E11k will work well. I had the E10k when I had my K612's a while ago and that drove them fine.


----------



## halcyon

mad lust envy said:


> I use the U3 for my PC to send optical out to my X7. I can send either Dolby Headphone, so the X7 would only need to do DAC and Amping duties (turn off SBX when doing this), or I can send out Dolby Digital from the PC to the X7 to convert into SBX. If I don't use the U3, and stick with just the PC to X7, I will NOT get Dolby Digital, and instead will have to rely on PCM to be converted to SBX which does NOT sound as good. I'm referring to virtual surround algorhythm sounding better, not talking about sheer technical performance.
> 
> I don't understand what's confusing about this. In all cases, the X7 is pulling all the weight. The U3 is only there for ensuring I get a digital DOLBY DIGITAL or DOLBY HEADPHONE signal to send to the X7.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sorry, but this is still confusing - call me dumb :-D

 Q1: Can X7 get *5.1 channel discrete PCM input* from a PC vi (i.e. act as a TRUE 5.1 USB sound card)?

 Q2: If Q1 is yes, then can X7 do *SBX Studio Pro headphone virtualization* PROPERLY with 3D sound stage positioning for headphones (like Sound Blaster Z -series cards) from this USB discrete PCM 5.1 channel input?

 Q3: If Q2 YES, then is the 3D sound virtualization to headphones EVEN BETTER, IF one inputs *Dolby Digital 5.1 bitstream via the optical *input to X7 and uses SBX Studio Pro to make the headphone virtualized 3D sound from the DD 5.1 bistream?

 Q4: If YES to Q3, then *how is better?* More streams? More accurate positioning? Better environmental (echo/reverb) effects? Something else? I do understand that this is not a fidelity or SN/R issue, but relates to possible differences in the headphone 3D virtualization performance.

 I'm just trying to understand this, in order to make proper purchase. I just want the best of what the PC has to offer in 3D headphone virtualization, and I'm torn between the various options (internal PCIe cards vs external USB sound cards, SBX Studio Pro vs Dolby Headphone, etc). Price is not really that much of an issue. I can combine PCIe card for optical output and external USB/optical input device like X7 for actual sound card duties (along with headphone virtualization).

 My current benchmark is X-Fi Elite Pro outputting headphone virtualized sound via digital output to an external DAC which outputs analog line out to my headphone amp. I get great gaming like this, but alas, no PCI-slots in current generation motherboards and it's time to upgrade and say bye-bye to X-Fi Elite Pro....


----------



## Fegefeuer

SBX virtualization is done through the Sb-axx1, there is no downconversion to Dolby Digital. Simply NONE as the sb-axx1 is NOT at all bound to Dolby Digital in any way.
 If you plug the X7 to the PC then the driver will ensure that the residing 5.1 discrete PCM audio in the I/O will be sent over USB to the X7 where the virtualization will be applied through the SB-axx1.
  
 In the current state you either go PC -> X7 -> Headphone + ability to play with SBX via consoles or you get the BlasterX G5 -> optical out with SBX applied headphone mode - DAC/AMP of your choice.
  
 For 110€ the BlasterX G5 is currently the best choice for PC Gamers that want to rely on their own DAC/AMP combo or duo. If you need proper console SBX as well then you gotta make a compromise as the X7 cannot output SBX applied headphone mode to the optical out.


----------



## MusclePharm

change is good said:


> If you are interested in directional audio, the modi will not give that to you. It ultimately falls on what you really want. I get the sense that you want surround, so get a mixamp. Or, go a step further and get an all-in-one X7.



Thank you for the info, Change. 
But why you say x7 is a step further over mixamp? 

I do have already have an Amp, so that's not the issue. My only concern relies on directional audio that Modi may or may not provide. Perhaps the dac chip inside Mixamp isnt as good as the one on X7?


----------



## Change is Good

musclepharm said:


> Thank you for the info, Change.
> But why you say x7 is a step further over mixamp?
> 
> I do have already have an Amp, so that's not the issue. My only concern relies on directional audio that Modi may or may not provide. Perhaps the dac chip inside Mixamp isnt as good as the one on X7?




Better sound quality for those gaming on a desk and want an all in one device (amp, DAC, surround processor).

If you're on the couch gaming on console, stick with the mixamp or something similar. Keep it simple.


----------



## shuto77

Is anyone playing Destiny: The Taken King on PS4? Pm me for my screen name.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I did... months ago. Destiny is dead to me now though. I stopped a week before the halloween festival thing.


----------



## DagsJT

fegefeuer said:


> SBX virtualization is done through the Sb-axx1, there is no downconversion to Dolby Digital. Simply NONE as the sb-axx1 is NOT at all bound to Dolby Digital in any way.
> If you plug the X7 to the PC then the driver will ensure that the residing 5.1 discrete PCM audio in the I/O will be sent over USB to the X7 where the virtualization will be applied through the SB-axx1.
> 
> In the current state you either go PC -> X7 -> Headphone + ability to play with SBX via consoles or you get the BlasterX G5 -> optical out with SBX applied headphone mode - DAC/AMP of your choice.
> ...




I have my PC and console on a desk with the G5 connected via USB to the PC and optical from console. I've noticed that the G5 seems to play audio from both devices at the same time, which makes sense.

But does this also mean that my console audio can now get surround/SBX because the PC connection is driving and the software on PC converting as the audio plays from console?


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> I did... months ago. Destiny is dead to me now though. I stopped a week before the halloween festival thing.




You will be back sir... U always come back


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> Can anyone recommend a decent usb lapel mic to pair with the X7 and PS4? I just jumped on a deal for two headphones that dont have standard 3.5mm detachable cables.
> 
> I have the X7.




I have been using a Zalman mic for years... It's built tough!

Also I'd post your screen name on the destiny thread... Plenty of us over there.


----------



## halcyon

fegefeuer said:


> SBX virtualization is done through the Sb-axx1, there is no downconversion to Dolby Digital. Simply NONE as the sb-axx1 is NOT at all bound to Dolby Digital in any way.
> If you plug the X7 to the PC then the driver will ensure that the residing 5.1 discrete PCM audio in the I/O will be sent over USB to the X7 where the virtualization will be applied through the SB-axx1.
> 
> In the current state you either go PC -> X7 -> Headphone + ability to play with SBX via consoles or you get the BlasterX G5 -> optical out with SBX applied headphone mode - DAC/AMP of your choice.
> ...


 

 Thank you. This is how I figured it as well. However, AFAIU, Mad lust Envy was stating that there is a distinct difference between USB Discrete PCM -> X7 USB input -> SBX Headphone virtualization from X7 headphone output  vs. Optical DD Live bitstream PC output -> X7 optical input -> SBX Headphone virtualization via X7 headphone output.

 So, I was merely trying to clarify what is this difference and how does one notice it.

 I guess I'll find out, when I get my X7 :-D


----------



## jthom320

If you use like a 3.5 mm to RCA converter piece couldn't you hook up an X7 to an external amp and still get SBX?  I understand you can't use the optical and still get it.
  
 I'm just wondering for the sake of wondering.  I have HD700's and people have been reccomending tube amps to me and at some point I'd like to listen to it though one and I'm wondering if I could use my X7 as the DAC with an external tube amp and still get surround.  
  
 I do have to say though that I'm currently loving my set up as is.  The HD700's are extremely wide.  Love that about them.  Hate to use the cliche but it sounds like I'm listening to music and games again for the first time.  Loving hearing details I've never heard before.  Even in things like title screens I'm picking up little sounds my HD598 and mixamp never did.


----------



## shuto77

jthom320 said:


> If you use like a 3.5 mm to RCA converter piece couldn't you hook up an X7 to an external amp and still get SBX?  I understand you can't use the optical and still get it.
> 
> I'm just wondering for the sake of wondering.  I have HD700's and people have been reccomending tube amps to me and at some point I'd like to listen to it though one and I'm wondering if I could use my X7 as the DAC with an external tube amp and still get surround.
> 
> I do have to say though that I'm currently loving my set up as is.  The HD700's are extremely wide.  Love that about them.  Hate to use the cliche but it sounds like I'm listening to music and games again for the first time.  Loving hearing details I've never heard before.  Even in things like title screens I'm picking up little sounds my HD598 and mixamp never did.




Your impressions remind me of a famous Madonna song.


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> I have been using a Zalman mic for years... It's built tough!
> 
> Also I'd post your screen name on the destiny thread... Plenty of us over there.




Awesome, thanks.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> If you are interested in directional audio, the modi will not give that to you. It ultimately falls on what you really want. I get the sense that you want surround, so get a mixamp. Or, go a step further and get an all-in-one X7.
> You may be better off just getting one of these
> 
> http://us.creative.com/p/accessories/creative-bluetooth-audio-bt-w2-usb-transceiver
> ...




I do have a USB Bluetooth dongle i use with the X7. Can that be used with microphone? 

I fully expect to keep the Hifiman, but the Beyer T70 might be a little bass light for me. If the bass is indeed better with the Brainwavz pads and it responds well to EQ, they really sound like a keeper. At that point, I'd probably want to do a detachable 3.5mm cable mod. That would make them so much more convenient. 

If I love the headphones, I'll definitely reach out to Peterek. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> Your impressions remind me of a famous Madonna song.


 

 Hah that's probably a pretty apt comparison.  More then you think actually.  I was listening to a song last night that was pretty string heavy.  I don't even remember what it was but I do remember feeling an almost physical pleasure in my ears.  Almost like the guitar was riding my ear canal.  Can't even describe it well but it was awesome.  
  
 This is probably going to end up setting me down an expensive road unfortunately as while I really like what I have I'm more interested now in trying out other stuff.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

My current setup for 7.1 SBX Pro Studio virtual surround sound on PC:
  
 PC -> Sound BlasterX G5 -> Line Out with Windows volume at 100/100 -> Amp -> Sennheiser HD 800 + Antlion Modmic plugged into G5
  
 You could replace the G5 with the E5 if you want. One of the aspects I don't like about the E5/G5 as a DAC/Amp is that volume is linked to Windows volume control and that the low gain is quite high. This is an issue for high sensitivity IEMs/Headphones.
  
 The X7 only supports up to 5.1 on PC and at the moment you can't output virtual surround sound processed audio to the Line Out. This may be changed in a future software/firmware update.


----------



## jincuteguy

halcyon said:


> Thank you. This is how I figured it as well. However, AFAIU, Mad lust Envy was stating that there is a distinct difference between USB Discrete PCM -> X7 USB input -> SBX Headphone virtualization from X7 headphone output  vs. Optical DD Live bitstream PC output -> X7 optical input -> SBX Headphone virtualization via X7 headphone output.
> 
> So, I was merely trying to clarify what is this difference and how does one notice it.
> 
> I guess I'll find out, when I get my X7 :-D


 
 There is a big difference, I have the X7 and I tried both setup.  The Dolby Digital route is way better for Surround Sound directional.


----------



## halcyon

jincuteguy said:


> There is a big difference, I have the X7 and I tried both setup.  The Dolby Digital route is way better for Surround Sound directional.


 
  
 Thanks. You are confirming, what MLV stated.
  
 I wonder why there is a difference in the positional sound in the first place?

 Also, as per your own experience,  how would you characterize the directional sound differences between the USB/PCM and the Optical/DD-bistream modes?


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

jincuteguy said:


> There is a big difference, I have the X7 and I tried both setup.  The Dolby Digital route is way better for Surround Sound directional.


 
  
 That makes no sense. The audio is lossless via USB but won't be via DD due to bandwidth limitations of optical.
  
 Is there a way to record the output from both?


----------



## jincuteguy

tenmoonsnorth said:


> That makes no sense. The audio is lossless via USB but won't be via DD due to bandwidth limitations of optical.
> 
> Is there a way to record the output from both?


 
 I know  the audio is lossless via USB that's why I didn't say the DD route has better "sound quality".  I said the DD route has better "directional sound" in terms of virtual surround sound.
 But the difference in sound quality is hard to notice by human ears, well to my ears at least, they both sound almost the same in terms of sound quality.
 But the DD route has much better surround sound in terms of directional cues.


----------



## jincuteguy

halcyon said:


> Thanks. You are confirming, what MLV stated.
> 
> I wonder why there is a difference in the positional sound in the first place?
> 
> Also, as per your own experience,  how would you characterize the directional sound differences between the USB/PCM and the Optical/DD-bistream modes?


 
  
 The USB / PCM directional sound is not as distinct as the DD route, like it is more "broad" and blend in with other directions.  For example, a gun shot on the left, the USB / pcm route would give a little bit of sound coming from the left, a little bit from top left and bottom left.  
 Where as the DD route would give a more distinct sound coming from the "Left".  I don't know if I explained that good enough but hopefully you get my point 
  
 And I think the reason that there is a difference in the positional sound in the first place is because I think the implementation of converting 5.1 surround sound (PCM) to SBX surround is not as good as the implementation of converting 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound to SBX surround.
  
 I was like everyone else think that the USB / PCM route has the best SBX surround sound for gaming until I tried the Dolby Digital route setup, and I was blown away by the difference.


----------



## Fegefeuer

prove it by recording it so everyone can check it out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halcyon said:


> Thank you. This is how I figured it as well. However, AFAIU, Mad lust Envy was stating that there is a distinct difference between USB Discrete PCM -> X7 USB input -> SBX Headphone virtualization from X7 headphone output  vs. Optical DD Live bitstream PC output -> X7 optical input -> SBX Headphone virtualization via X7 headphone output.
> 
> 
> So, I was merely trying to clarify what is this difference and how does one notice it.
> ...



Please don't take my word as gospel. I still go back and forth to see if I'm just hearing things. Enjoy the X7 as is. You do NOT need to feed it DD into the optical input if you're a PC gamer. But you may wanna try it, because I'm convinced directionality is pretty obviously better with a DD source as opposed to USB.

As I have said before, it's like the SBX conversion works best with Dolby Digital.

And lol, people are still trying to argue about USB being lossless = better. Clearly not understanding what we are implying.


----------



## jincuteguy

fegefeuer said:


> prove it by recording it so everyone can check it out.


 
  
 Sorry I don't have time for it.  If you don't believe me, it's ok.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This probably has more to do with the way Dolby Digital's encoding works as time delay/domain (especially as Laufzeitverzögerung - sorry, don't know the english word -  is very important for localizing audio in the soundfield) and frequency.domain masking are huge factors/motors of the codec.
  
 So while PCM is "truer" to the original audio sample quality Dolby Digital could have the better distinction/directionality based on how its codec works - being a dedicated multichannel/surround codec.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

I am perfectly happy with my Martanz amp/dac. It is end game for me, at my salary. 
 BUT I want to build a gaming rig. I want surround sound. 
  
 So I take it I need a surround sound capable card that outputs 7.1 to PCM? Is their cheap surround sound and expensive surround sound? 
 I don't need to pay for a top of the line sound-blaster card if I am never using its dac or amp. 
  
 So I I would just run foobar2000 through the USB out and game audio through the PCM both to my Marantz. 
  
 EDIT: I think all I need is a "Dolby Headphone" capable sound card. Not Dobly Digits or DTS 5.1 or 7.1. Since I will just be using headphones, virtual sound sound, like my Astro mix amp, is all I can expect. Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.
  
 Edit 2: I have been using the Astro for probably 6+ years at least. But I just read from a pro gamer that he prefers 2 channel stereo + high-end head phones over ANY virtual surround sound. I am just hooked my ODAC and O2 up to my ps4. I am going to try stereo sound for a few days and see if I like it more than the Astro.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

'Pro' gamer. Lol. That makes me laugh.

I bet I can beat out any pro gamer in locating sounds faster with a lowly $15 KSC-75 and a Mixamp vs them using a $5000 headphone in stereo. Give me a break.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The DEDICATED STEREO GAMING mentality mostly comes from fragile minded pro gamers who themselves simply have no experience but parrot others also by mimicking their gear (same mouse, Keyboard, monitor). I have yet to see an ESL player who extensively tested all options and delivered a strong argument in favor of hard panning rearless stereo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No matter how people wanna justify it, there is no way 2 channels of directional information is better than 5+. Like trying to justify a colored painting in black and white.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

all right. Thats all fine and great. Thank you for your opinion. Trust me, I value Mad Lust's opinion on this. He is the resident gaming sound expert. 
  
 but... ya'll never answered my original question. 
  
 Edit: Thanks Martin for the extra info. This kinda leads to me another question: Why don't they make something like the Sound Blaster x7 for the PS4 and Xbone? I would really enjoy an upgrade for my Astro Mixamp. From what I read the x7 doesn't have chat function for consoles. I don't want to use a mod mic. I like my V-moda mic just fine. Is soundblaster that dedicated to PCs that they can't add full funcationality to the X7 for consoles?


----------



## Yethal

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> all right. Thats all fine and great. Thank you for your opinion. Trust me, I value Mad Lust's opinion on this. He is the resident gaming sound expert.
> 
> but... ya'll never answered my original question.
> 
> Edit: Thanks Martin for the extra info. This kinda leads to me another question: Why don't they make something like the Sound Blaster x7 for the PS4 and Xbone? I would really enjoy an upgrade for my Astro Mixamp. From what I read the x7 doesn't have chat function for consoles. I don't want to use a mod mic. I like my V-moda mic just fine. Is soundblaster that dedicated to PCs that they can't add full funcationality to the X7 for consoles?



Add bt-w2 transmitter to the x7 and You'll get full chat functionality on ps4.


----------



## Anzabob

In finland (Europe) pricing differs a lot from america... If i buy AD 700X they sell for 180E and if i buy AKG 701 it will be the same: 180E With that in mind, is AKG the superior choise? For competitive gaming, no other purpose


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

yethal said:


> Add bt-w2 transmitter to the x7 and You'll get full chat functionality on ps4.


 
 How is a blue tooth adapter going to work with my existing vmoda mic. It isn't. And to switch between Xbone and Ps4, that is just ANOTHER plug I have to switch. 
  
 Thanks for the tip, but that is 100% not worth it. So again I ask. why doesn't soundblaster just add chat support like all the must cheaper options. Why doesnt Astro make a mixamp as good as the X7. 
  
 EDIT: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. It connects with the X7! Okay. Gatcha.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

anzabob said:


> In finland (Europe) pricing differs a lot from america... If i buy AD 700X they sell for 180E and if i buy AKG 701 it will be the same: 180E With that in mind, is AKG the superior choise? For competitive gaming, no other purpose


 
 IMO, and a lot of people totally disagree with me, but I don't think the 701 make such great gaming head phones unless you are going to amp them. The 701 are my favorite cans (but some 650's are in the mail and may dethrone them), but I honestly don't hear why people think they are so good for gaming.  They MUST be amped to truly get them to be good, when they are amped they are AMAZING! When they are not properly amped. They are okay at best. 
 Personally I think the X1 or X2 makes a much better gaming headphone and takes regular 3.5 mm inline mics. 
  
 I haven't heard about the 700x, but have heard they are good for gaming too. Not sure about amping requirements.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

mad lust envy said:


> No matter how people wanna justify it, there is no way 2 channels of directional information is better than 5+. Like trying to justify a colored painting in black and white.


 
  
 Binaural audio is 3D and only 2 channels. However, it requires specific processing involving Head Related Transfer Functions and extremely few games actually do this. If a game does have a headphone mode it's often just crossfeed.
  
 With VR binaural simulation will be standard. I think over the next 5 years the focus on binaural will be come much larger in film, TV and obviously games. Some blu-rays already have DTS Headphone:X tracks already. Old media seems to be finally waking up that most people consuming their content are doing so on headphones and not 5.1 surround systems.
  



  
 This is an example of Realspace 3D which is being used by Oculus. This is not aftermarket software like virtual surround sound software but requires it to be implemented by the game developers.
  

  
 I'm sure some remember Aureal A3D hardware accelerated soundcards:
  

  
 The technology is not new but gaming and specifically game consoles have always put a focus on 5.1/7.1 home theater over headphones. It's a shame when a lot of people use headphones on console and PC.
  
 You can still get OpenAL to work in games and use Rapture3D.


----------



## mindbomb

well, both virtual surround sound and binaural audio are ultimately 2 channels, but they contain more spatial information than stereo is capable of. That's the whole surround sound aspect.


----------



## Sony Slave

Look, if my headphones don't sell in the classifieds. I'll let you listen to my Yamaha HPH MT-220's Mad Lust.


----------



## gardenoflight

My apologies if this post is insanely stupid for people who actually understand this stuff(I have a feeling that it might be) but if anyone would be kind enough to offer me some guidance about adding virtual surround to my setup I would greatly appreciate it. It's my first foray into Dolby stuff and I'm rather confused about how my options. 
  
 Currently, I have my Playstation 4 going through optical to a cheap DAC(Fii0 something) to the line in on my motherboard. My computer is then going through optical out to an Audioengine D1 to my headphones/speakers. I'm plenty satisfied with the audio quality of this setup, but I'm spending quite a bit of time playing my PS4 lately and I think I would benefit immensely from access to virtual surround for consoles. 
  
 Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones 
  
 Would straight out swapping the Fii0 DAC with an Astro Mixamp work? I've read that you can use the Mixamp with a headphone amplifier so I know that works, but I'm concerned about piping it back out to another DAC. I would just use the Mixamp straight out, but I really need to preserve being able to switch from headphones to speakers quickly and I considering being able to listen to my PC and console audio simultaneously to be essential. 
  
 I actually have a Creative X7 on the way(should be here tomorrow), which as I understand it would simplify this whole thing immensely, but I'm sort of having second thoughts after reading about the various issues it has in threads here. 
  
 Again, sorry if this is a super dumb post. I've tried Googling the answers and searching around here, but I think my audio vocabulary might be a little bit too limited to get the results I'm looking for.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

Spoiler: Quote: gardenoflight



Originally Posted by *gardenoflight* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> My apologies if this post is insanely stupid for people who actually understand this stuff(I have a feeling that it might be) but if anyone would be kind enough to offer me some guidance about adding virtual surround to my setup I would greatly appreciate it. It's my first foray into Dolby stuff and I'm rather confused about how my options.
> 
> Currently, I have my Playstation 4 going through optical to a cheap DAC(Fii0 something) to the line in on my motherboard. My computer is then going through optical out to an Audioengine D1 to my headphones/speakers. I'm plenty satisfied with the audio quality of this setup, but I'm spending quite a bit of time playing my PS4 lately and I think I would benefit immensely from access to virtual surround for consoles.
> 
> ...


 
  


  


> Would straight out swapping the Fii0 DAC with an Astro Mixamp work? I've read that you can use the Mixamp with a headphone amplifier so I know that works, but I'm concerned about piping it back out to another DAC. I would just use the Mixamp straight out, but I really need to preserve being able to switch from headphones to speakers quickly and I considering being able to listen to my PC and console audio simultaneously to be essential.


 
  
 That would actually work because the output after virtual surround sound processing is stereo (2 channels). Currently you are going Digital to Analogue then Analogue back to Digital via the Line In on the computer then Digital back to Analogue.
  
 The Mixamp has a very weak headphone amplifier in it but it should still work in your setup.
  
 Does the X7 have the hardware mixer that the E5/G5 has? You could just mix the audio from your console and PC via the X7 but I don't have an X7 and am not that familiar with any software quirks.


----------



## gardenoflight

tenmoonsnorth said:


> That would actually work because the output after virtual surround sound processing is stereo (2 channels). Currently you are going Digital to Analogue then Analogue back to Digital via the Line In on the computer then Digital back to Analogue.
> 
> The Mixamp has a very weak headphone amplifier in it but it should still work in your setup.
> 
> Does the X7 have the hardware mixer that the E5/G5 has? You could just mix the audio from your console and PC via the X7 but I don't have an X7 and am not that familiar with any software quirks.


 
  
 Hey thanks so much for the reply. Really appreciate it. 
  
 The X7 would solve my issues completely it would seem(including the mixing), but I'm just a little nervous about some of the things I've heard about it combines with some middling experiences I've had with Creative products/software before. It's good to know that the Mixamp is an option for me as well in case that doesn't work out. Might be for the best anyway, really quite happy with everything in my setup besides lacking virtual surround.


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

gardenoflight said:


> Hey thanks so much for the reply. Really appreciate it.
> 
> The X7 would solve my issues completely it would seem(including the mixing), but I'm just a little nervous about some of the things I've heard about it combines with some middling experiences I've had with Creative products/software before. It's good to know that the Mixamp is an option for me as well in case that doesn't work out. Might be for the best anyway, really quite happy with everything in my setup besides lacking virtual surround.


 
  
 The only major problem I'm aware of with the X7 at the moment is virtual surround sound processed audio can't be sent to the Line Out. I'm sure this will be fixed in a future update but no word from Creative at the moment. I'd hope for a response next week after when the christmas holidays will be over.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

I'm confused why two dacs? 
 "Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones " 
  
 The d1 is an amp/dac right? 
 Why are you not going from the PS4 straight to the D1? What am I missing? 
  
 I was just asking on this forum about the X7 as a replacement for the Mixamp. If you have that coming try using that. It has a much better amp than the Astro. 
 I have been using the Mix Amp for nearly 6 years, maybe 7. I lost count. The thing is great (but wish there was a slightly higher quality option). I upgraded from the A40s to various other better headphones and the mixamp is 10 times better. 
  
 A lot of people put an amp AFTER the Astro mixamp... which I guess you need if you have some hard to drive headphones, I messed around with the hooking my O2 into my mix amp, 100% unnecessary IMO and what it did do was amplify the mixamp's noise. I would much rather find a set of cans that the Mix Amp can drive rather finding some that need double amping. (My vote always goes to the X1 or X2. Easy to drive. Nice "fun" sounding U curve, Good bass for games, good sound stage, easy to add 3.5mm inline mic, AND most important you can wear the x1/x2 for 16 hours straight and forget you are even wearing them).
  
 And I don't think your post is dumb. I have been into the Astro game for a long time and the audiophile game for 2 years now and I still don't 100% get it. I am thinking of building a PC gaming rig... and I have NO clue what virtual sound options are even available. There seems like there are 15.


----------



## Yethal

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> And I don't think your post is dumb. I have been into the Astro game for a long time and the audiophile game for 2 years now and I still don't 100% get it. I am thinking of building a PC gaming rig... and I have NO clue what virtual sound options are even available. There seems like there are 15.



Two options here. If You want SBX (and or plan to play csgo) buy a soundblaster. If You want dolby headphone, buy a xonar. The cheapest one will do since I guess You'd be bypassing the dac/amp sections anyway.


----------



## halcyon

yethal said:


> Two options here. If You want SBX (and or plan to play csgo) buy a soundblaster. If You want dolby headphone, buy a xonar. The cheapest one will do since I guess You'd be bypassing the dac/amp sections anyway.


 
  
 How about:

 DD-Live 5.1 bitstream output via optical from ALC1150 codec based soundcards (most Z170/X99 mobos). Feeding this into the new receivers that have DTS:X certification and DTS Headphone:X output (from their probably not so good headphone output)? I've yet to see anybody test this for 3D positional accuracy. If the receivers know how to encode DTS Headphone:X this should work (in theory) now that the DTS:X certified amps/receivers are shipping. When properly done DTS Headphone:X does wonderful positional headphone 3D virtualization. I'm just not sure what the receivers these day do on this.

 There's of course Turtle Beach Ear Force Z60 (with supposedly DTS Headphone:X support) but the consensus seems to be that it's not up to snuff - in many different ways (build quality, positioning, headphone amplification). I haven't tested it myself.

 Other than that (and the Astros), it's a two-way between Creative and Asus, regardless of whether you pick PCIe card or external USB sound card.

 I wish somebody would measure the latency of the major gaming targeted external USB sound cards (X7, G5, U7, etc).

 Somebody, in this forum, has several of those cards and could do the test (*hint*) :-D


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

Spoiler: Quote: halcyon



Originally Posted by *halcyon* /img/forum/go_quote.gif 





> How about:
> 
> DD-Live 5.1 bitstream output via optical from ALC1150 codec based soundcards (most Z170/X99 mobos). Feeding this into the new receivers that have DTS:X certification and DTS Headphone:X output (from their probably not so good headphone output)? I've yet to see anybody test this for 3D positional accuracy. If the receivers know how to encode DTS Headphone:X this should work (in theory) now that the DTS:X certified amps/receivers are shipping. When properly done DTS Headphone:X does wonderful positional headphone 3D virtualization. I'm just not sure what the receivers these day do on this.
> 
> ...


 
  


  
 That could work. Receivers often have a pretty high output impedance on the headphone jack though.
  
 Logitech G633/G933 have DTS Headphone:X and Dolby Headphone but nobody here is going to want to downgrade their headphones just for that.
  
 The other issue is that DTS Headphone:X is tailored to specific headphones and their unique frequency response. I considered ripping out the internals of a G633 to use it as a DAC but the G633 is going to have a very different frequency response than to the HD800.


----------



## halcyon

tenmoonsnorth said:


> The other issue is that DTS Headphone:X is tailored to specific headphones and their unique frequency response. I considered ripping out the internals of a G633 to use it as a DAC but the G633 is going to have a very different frequency response than to the HD800.


 
  
 True that. I had Behringer DEQ2496 while back and enabled me to dial in quite a lot of headphone specific adjustments in almost real-time (low enough latency to not matter for games). Your G633 as an external processor DIY-style makes me think again, but alas, I've sold my Behringer and the SoundWorks headphone specific tailoring probably introduces too much lag.
  
 So we wait (in regards to DTS Headphone:X) and while we wait, there are more offerings like these:
  
*Tritton Katana HD*
 http://store.madcatz.com/Tritton-Katana-7-1-HD-Wireless-Surround-Headset-for-Consoles.html
 - HDMI-in
 - 7.1 channel sound virtualized to headphone output
 - DTS Headphone.X
 - sub-par headphone - most likely
 - only HDMI out (pass through=


----------



## Yethal

halcyon said:


> True that. I had Behringer DEQ2496 while back and enabled me to dial in quite a lot of headphone specific adjustments in almost real-time (low enough latency to not matter for games). Your G633 as an external processor DIY-style makes me think again, but alas, I've sold my Behringer and the SoundWorks headphone specific tailoring probably introduces too much lag.
> 
> So we wait (in regards to DTS Headphone:X) and while we wait, there are more offerings like these:
> 
> ...



Would be cool if instead of the wireless transmitter it had s/pdif output.


----------



## gardenoflight

gr34td3str0y3r said:


> I'm confused why two dacs?
> "Map thing I've seen some people use: PS4 -> Optical Toslink Cable -> Fii0 DAC -> RCA to 3.5mm cable into line in on motherboard-> Optical Toslink Cable -> Audio Engine D1 -> Speakers/Headphones "
> 
> The d1 is an amp/dac right?
> Why are you not going from the PS4 straight to the D1? What am I missing?


 
 Hey man, appreciate the reply and the assurances that it's OK to be confused haha. 
  
 I would really love to be able to do that, but the D1 does not support simultaneous playback of both it's inputs. Only the optical or USB will work at one given time. I have a multi-monitor desk setup and I'm often listening to music, talking to someone on Skype, or just kind of half doing something on my computer while I'm using the PS4, so having the ability to listen to both devices simultainously without switching an input is sort of at a premium for me. 
  
 X7 has arrived though 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Still playing with things to get them right, but I'm liking what I see so far.


----------



## Change is Good

Well... I ended up jumping on a crazy 400i deal, recently. Just when I thought I was thinning the damn herd... :/


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> Well... I ended up jumping on a crazy 400i deal, recently. Just when I thought I was thinning the damn herd... :/


 
 If it's one of the new ones, it may be brighter than the measurements suggest, as they did something with the back plate (though that mystery grab bag one is a pre-revision one.)
  
 On the bright side (heh,) it will have the new, non-screw-in connectors.


----------



## Change is Good

You sure the mystery bag is pre-revision? The specs say screw on, but sonic confirmed all their 400i are new stock. That would be a bummer, because I just ordered another adapter for my Boompro. If it was rev.1 I could have just used the current screw-on adapter I have.


----------



## PacoTaco

I may be wrong, but it did say screw-in connections on the grab bag's description. But hey, if you asked them already, you should be getting the new one then.


----------



## Change is Good

I should have asked, myself, but I just went with what they said in their sale thread. Either way their return policy is top notch, so an exchange would be at no cost.


----------



## Helvetica bold

CES is this week! Hopefully we will get to see some new offerings from Turtle Beach (DAC?) or Astro?  Or thats more of an E3 thing?


----------



## PacoTaco

helvetica bold said:


> CES is this week! Hopefully we will get to see some new offerings from Turtle Beach (DAC?) or Astro?  Or thats more of an E3 thing?


 
 Probably an E3 thing. It might be better to see if Creative is coming with anything new. They're better by quite a bit.


----------



## Change is Good

There is a mixamp 5.8 with all complete accessories (and PS chat cable!) for $80 on eBay if anyone is looking. You don't often see a complete set like that, nowadays. Thing looks to be in very good condition, too. I'd post a link but I was using the app on my tablet. Should be easy to find. 

Edit: Thought I'd bring it up for anyone that may be having remorse over selling theirs (MLE?) 

Edit 2: link http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-Gaming-Wireless-5-8-MixAmp-TX-MixAmp-RX-for-Astro-A30-A40-headset-/131689722429?hash=item


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

tenmoonsnorth said:


> Spoiler: Quote: halcyon
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yes. From what I understand they tend to be very poor headphone outs. They simply put a couple resistors in the amp path out to the jack. Less than ideal.


----------



## gr34td3str0y3r

gardenoflight said:


> Hey man, appreciate the reply and the assurances that it's OK to be confused haha.
> 
> I would really love to be able to do that, but the D1 does not support simultaneous playback of both it's inputs. Only the optical or USB will work at one given time. I have a multi-monitor desk setup and I'm often listening to music, talking to someone on Skype, or just kind of half doing something on my computer while I'm using the PS4, so having the ability to listen to both devices simultainously without switching an input is sort of at a premium for me.
> 
> ...


 
 I got ya! 
 Well if you don't like the X7, then the Mix amp is definitely an alternative. It has an input in the back that I run music through plenty of time while I game. I just hope the X7 works out for you cause the Astro does the job but leaves a lot to be desired.  
 When I am chatting for example I have to turn the mix to about 97% chat and 3% voice. Its ridiculous. If i go ONE mm further on the mix pot then all game audio cuts out, but even at 97% I have trouble hearing people sometimes over the game audio.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, my Shure 1840 *velour* pads finally arrived and I can confirm that these are a perfect fit on the SHP9500 after ripping off the stock pads and excess material. Just slip the pads over the ring that pops off the driver (make sure to remove rubber around the ring, as well).
  

  
  
 The plain velours keep the stock sound as is, with maybe... just maybe a little more bass and soundstage. I can assume that 1*5*40 *alcantara* pads will make them warmer while taming some of the treble. My first intention was to get those, but I opted for the cheaper velours to test the fit and sound, first.


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> Well, my Shure 1840 *velour* pads finally arrived and I can confirm that these are a perfect fit on the SHP9500 after ripping off the stock pads and excess material. Just slip the pads over the ring that pops off the driver (make sure to remove rubber around the ring, as well).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Change, are those thicker (allowing more ear depth) than the stock pads? My only minor gripe about them in stock form is there isn't quite as much room in there for my ears compared to the X1's.

Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

burritoboy9984 said:


> Change, are those thicker (allowing more ear depth) than the stock pads? My only minor gripe about them in stock form is there isn't quite as much room in there for my ears compared to the X1's.
> 
> Thanks




Yes, my ears no longer touch the drivers.


----------



## burritoboy9984

change is good said:


> Yes, my ears no longer touch the drivers.


 
  
 Sweet, I'll have try them, did you look into the HM5 velours also? If so, what made you end up going with the 1840 pads?
  
 Thanks


----------



## PacoTaco

burritoboy9984 said:


> Sweet, I'll have try them, did you look into the HM5 velours also? If so, what made you end up going with the 1840 pads?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
  


change is good said:


> Yes, my ears no longer touch the drivers.


 
  
  
 That reminds me of something I wanted to ask...
  
 Have you tried the hybrid Brainwavz pads, Change?


----------



## Change is Good

I was on the fence on which to get until I slaughtered the stock and saw the oval shape of the plastic part that pops off. I was already familiar with shure pads, so I just went with what I knew. It was actually a harder decision choosing between velours and alcantaras. Really happy with my choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So many, many months after trying to return the X2 to Philips, I was surprised to FINALLY get a return slip in my email. The faulty X2 has been sitting in my closet forever. :rolleyes:

I gotta say, really sloppy of Philips to take this long to FINALLY send me the return slip. I honestly thought they just forgot about it, and since they hadn't charged me, I didn't care.

Was gonna start the process of semi-reviewing the Creative JAM, and then I noticed Awesome Games Done Quick is on Twitch for the week. It's gonna be a good week.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> So many, many months after trying to return the X2 to Philips, I was surprised to FINALLY get a return slip in my email. The faulty X2 has been sitting in my closet forever. :rolleyes:
> 
> I gotta say, really sloppy of Philips to take this long to FINALLY send me the return slip. I honestly thought they just forgot about it, and since they hadn't charged me, I didn't care.
> 
> Was gonna start the process of semi-reviewing the Creative JAM, and then I noticed Awesome Games Done Quick is on Twitch for the week. It's gonna be a good week.




Very nice! Hopefully they don't be dicks and send you one of the new revisions from Amazon that have glued pads and different material on them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, no, they sent me a good unit awhile back, which I sold, and and eventually replaced with my current HE-400.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm still wondering what alcantaras might do to that og 400.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My last one was when I had the Alcantaras. The increased depth of the cup makes them more comfy. Felt the sound was warmth and not far from what you expect of an HE-400. I didn't compare much because I loved the Alcanataras enough to not really go back to anything else.

It'd be interesting in comparing them to the Focuspads I have on now, but since I've basically permanently EQ-ed the low end with the X7 to my preference, I don't have any reason to jump to other pads. I love the HE-400 as is, and the increased low end boost basically mitigates the coldness of the stock sound. I haven't experienced any fatigue really since then.


----------



## Change is Good

If you ever want to let me borrow it, let me know and I'll send one of my cans your way.


----------



## yding202

I'm thinking about buying something like the Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro or the Sound Blaster X-Fi HD or Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 in order to get access to SBX Pro Studio for virtual surround.
  
 Are there any major differences in these (they all seem to do pretty much the same thing)?
  
 Would hooking up a hi-fi tube amp like a Schiit Lyr 2 to one of these guys be overkill?


----------



## Sam21

get the X-fi HD because it has a better DAC and ADC. it is more hi-fi.


----------



## yding202

sam21 said:


> get the X-fi HD because it has a better DAC and ADC. it is more hi-fi.


 
  
 I noticed that it doesn't have a subwoofer out, though. I was planning on also hooking up a 2.1 speaker system as well, which is why I was leaning towards the Surround 5.1 Pro.  I don't really need the microphone on the Omni since I have a ModMic.
  
 How does one hook up a subwoofer to the X-Fi HD?


----------



## Sam21

SoundCard               ADC-chip-[S/N]    DAC-chip-[S/N]
  
  
 X-Fi 5.1 Pro               CS5345-[104]     CS4361-[105]    
       
 Omni Surround 5.1      CS5345-[104]     CS4361-[105]  
        
 X-Fi HD                     CS5361-[114]     AKM4396-[120]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You don't need Subwoofer outs. Get a piggyback RCA cable and hook up the sub to one of the channels. Subs are frequency based, and all channels carry the low frequencues , unless youre using some crazy discrete cgannel signal. 

As far as LfE goes, there hasn't been one instance where a discrete sub channel carried something the other channels. Someone who knows more can chime in. Just saying, if your speaker setup is taking in a stereo signal, you don't need a sub out.


----------



## yding202

sam21 said:


> SoundCard               ADC-chip-[S/N]    DAC-chip-[S/N]
> 
> 
> X-Fi 5.1 Pro               CS5345-[104]     CS4361-[105]
> ...


 
 Where did you find this information?


----------



## Change is Good

Just get a soundbar


----------



## Sam21

yding202 said:


> Where did you find this information?


 
 I googled.


----------



## yding202

I actually noticed that Creative launched a new product called the Sound BlasterX G5.  It looks like some sort of crazy crossbreed of the X7 and the E5 (E5 form factor with same DAC/Amp, X7 SB-Axx1 audio chip and SBX virtual surround).  Certainly looks like an interesting alternative to the X7 if you don't need the speaker amp or bluetooth capabilities (too bad they didn't put in the BurrBrown DAC chip from the X7).
  
 It's definitely more targeted at gamers than audiophiles, but probably competes with Schiit M/M stack for music. And it's $50 cheaper than the E5 too!


----------



## PacoTaco

The





yding202 said:


> I actually noticed that Creative launched a new product called the Sound BlasterX G5.  It looks like some sort of crazy crossbreed of the X7 and the E5 (E5 form factor with same DAC/Amp, X7 SB-Axx1 audio chip and SBX virtual surround).  Certainly looks like an interesting alternative to the X7 if you don't need the speaker amp or bluetooth capabilities (too bad they didn't put in the BurrBrown DAC chip from the X7).
> 
> It's definitely more targeted at gamers than audiophiles, but probably competes with Schiit M/M stack for music. And it's $50 cheaper than the E5 too!




The G5 apparently allows sbx surround via line out and optical out.


----------



## halcyon

Creative & MrSpeakers will bundle Sound Blaster X7 LE sound card together with MrSpeakers Ether C gaming edition (comes with creative's detachable microphone) as a bundle for US and Korean buyers sometime during Q1/2016.
  
 http://www.prweb.com/releases/2016/01/prweb13149716.htm
  
 Don't say I didn't warn about your wallets...


----------



## yding202

halcyon said:


> Creative & MrSpeakers will bundle Sound Blaster X7 LE sound card together with MrSpeakers Ether C gaming edition (comes with creative's detachable microphone) as a bundle for US and Korean buyers sometime during Q1/2016.
> 
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2016/01/prweb13149716.htm
> 
> Don't say I didn't warn about your wallets...


 
 Oh Jesus.... they didn't say what price though haha


----------



## conquerator2

pacotaco said:


> The
> The G5 apparently allows sbx surround via line out and optical out.






yding202 said:


> I actually noticed that Creative launched a new product called the Sound BlasterX G5.  It looks like some sort of crazy crossbreed of the X7 and the E5 (E5 form factor with same DAC/Amp, X7 SB-Axx1 audio chip and SBX virtual surround).  Certainly looks like an interesting alternative to the X7 if you don't need the speaker amp or bluetooth capabilities (too bad they didn't put in the BurrBrown DAC chip from the X7).
> 
> It's definitely more targeted at gamers than audiophiles, but probably competes with Schiit M/M stack for music. And it's $50 cheaper than the E5 too!




The G5 is useless for consoles as it does not pass discrete 5.1 like the X7. I think it is fine with PC but there is enough competition in that segment.


----------



## yding202

conquerator2 said:


> The G5 is useless for consoles as it does not pass discrete 5.1 like the X7. I think it is fine with PC but there is enough competition in that segment.


 
  
 Ah yeah. But I'm pretty much a PC gamer only nowadays, and I happen to prefer SBX over D:H and Razer's VSP, so that limits my choices a little.  I wish the $40 off coupon code still worked.. I would jump on that in a heart beat.  I'm 90% sure that I'm going to end up with an X7 anyhow because I could make use of the speaker amp (not to mention the dac is a bit better).
  
 The only possible thing holding me back from the X7 is that it has 5.1 SBX instead of 7.1 like the G5... and I think the G5 software looks a lot more intuitive/modern.


----------



## yding202

pacotaco said:


> The
> The G5 apparently allows sbx surround via line out and optical out.


 
 Do the other Sound Blaster's (X-Fi HD, X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro, X7) not allow this?


----------



## TenMoonsNorth

sam21 said:


> get the X-fi HD because it has a better DAC and ADC. it is more hi-fi.


 
  
 Output impedance is 35Ω.
  


yding202 said:


> I'm thinking about buying something like the Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro or the Sound Blaster X-Fi HD or Sound Blaster Omni Surround 5.1 in order to get access to SBX Pro Studio for virtual surround.
> 
> Are there any major differences in these (they all seem to do pretty much the same thing)?
> 
> Would hooking up a hi-fi tube amp like a Schiit Lyr 2 to one of these guys be overkill?


 
  
 X-Fi HD is 7.1 CMSS-3D. I'm not sure of the state of software support in Windows 10 for this card but beware that high output impedance.
  
 X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro is software SBX Pro Studio (no soundcore chip) and 5.1. E5/G5 are 7.1 SBX Pro Studio.


----------



## PacoTaco

yding202 said:


> Do the other Sound Blaster's (X-Fi HD, X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro, X7) not allow this?


 
  
 I know for sure the X7 doesn't.
  


conquerator2 said:


> The G5 is useless for consoles as it does not pass discrete 5.1 like the X7. I think it is fine with PC but there is enough competition in that segment.


 
  
  
 There really isn't. Asus' implementation just adds a lot of revurb, Razor uses a GB of ram and can lag the sound, and the soundblaster cards don't hold a candle to the X7/G5's chip.


----------



## AdamG666

Tip for anyone who has a Turtle Beach DSS that wants to get rid of the hissing buy a volume control like this one, turn the volume down just a little and the hissing goes away completely. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00S97ZIS0/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?qid=1452092455&sr=8-5&pi=AC_SX220_SY330_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=headphone+volume+control&dpPl=1&dpID=41J0xYfUc8L&ref=plSrch


----------



## Helvetica bold

Monster is jumping into the gaming headset business. Sadly no Dolby Headphone or DTS X.
 Price points are decent tho. 
 http://fortune.com/2016/01/06/monster-headphone-debut-ces/
 and 
 http://www.thisisxbox.com/monster-bringing-a-new-fatal1ty-to-xbox-one/


----------



## speakerlao

mad lust envy said:


> MA900 is quite soft in treble compared to others, particularly for gaming use. I'm fine with treble roll off, personally, but it's something people note since it can blunt upper nuances.


 
 I have no idea what some of what you said even means. You might have more experience in auditioning headphones to notice the differences better, but to my ears, the MA900 is leagues ahead of the HD598. Not only does the soundstage blow the doors off the 598, but the MA900 sound much better across nearly every genre of music, where the 598 falls flat on it's face on quite a few genres of music when comparing the two.  Regardless of our differing opinions, I have to thank you for the guide, as I would have never discovered the MA900 without it.


----------



## yding202

pacotaco said:


> I know for sure the X7 doesn't.


 
   
 Really? That seems like a real bummer. What dac/amp were you planning on hooking up another dac/amp to it? Isn't the DAC?Amp inside the X7 pretty damn good already?
  
 Quote:


pacotaco said:


> There really isn't. Asus' implementation just adds a lot of revurb, Razor uses a GB of ram and can lag the sound, and the soundblaster cards don't hold a candle to the X7/G5's chip.


 
  
 I agree.  SBX with the SB-Axx1 (i.e. X7 or G5) sounds like the way to go.  Now the question is X7 or G5 + separate headphone/speaker dac/amp (maybe something like Aune X1S and SMSL Q5 Pro for $300 together at massdrop)?


----------



## Fegefeuer

G5+Vali 2 8)


----------



## PacoTaco

yding202 said:


> I agree.  SBX with the SB-Axx1 (i.e. X7 or G5) sounds like the way to go.  Now the question is X7 or G5 + separate headphone/speaker dac/amp (maybe something like Aune X1S and SMSL Q5 Pro for $300 together at massdrop)?


 

 Yes, it does have a quality DAC/Amp in it already. However, I would get a G5 because I already have a Modi2u/Magni2u.


----------



## Evshrug

Rudyrae, are you ready for that thing I was hinting I'd heard rumored Creative was working on? Got your hands firmly gripping your armchair? Get ready to wish you had $1,750, lmao:

http://us.creative.com/soniccarrier/
Dolby Atmos 15.2.4 soundbar. With multiple HDMI and optical inputs. Able to connect up to four subwoofers, wirelessly. Comes packed with free lawlz.

Looking at my bank account, the calendar with "Wedding" circled in November, and my collection of headphones, all I can realistically hope for is some trickle-down tech, but still... Wow. A surprise product for sure!


----------



## yding202

evshrug said:


> Rudyrae, are you ready for that thing I was hinting I'd heard rumored Creative was working on? Got your hands firmly gripping your armchair? Get ready to wish you had $1,750, lmao:
> 
> http://us.creative.com/soniccarrier/
> Dolby Atmos 15.2.4 soundbar. With multiple HDMI and optical inputs. Able to connect up to four subwoofers, wirelessly. Comes packed with free lawlz.
> ...


 
  
 Holy crap that is ridiculous. MSRP is $5,000.  I have to say... I am definitely skeptical that a sound bar can sound as good as a proper surround system, but if anyone's technology could make it happen, I believe Creative's could.  If they somehow bake SBX Pro Studio into it for line out to make it usable as a main PC sound system, that'd be pretty sick haha


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Rudyrae, are you ready for that thing I was hinting I'd heard rumored Creative was working on? Got your hands firmly gripping your armchair? Get ready to wish you had $1,750, lmao:
> 
> http://us.creative.com/soniccarrier/
> Dolby Atmos 15.2.4 soundbar. With multiple HDMI and optical inputs. Able to connect up to four subwoofers, wirelessly. Comes packed with free lawlz.
> ...




If only this was around during MLE's soundbar days lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

What happened? Did the X-Fi team strike back to show those SBX guys that the still pack muscle and don't rely on lazy virtual rooms but use geometric data of the user's home now?


----------



## Yethal

That awkward moment when somebody comes up with audio product so ridiculously expensive that Smyth Realizer seems cheap in comparison. Good job Creative.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> That awkward moment when somebody comes up with audio product so ridiculously expensive that Smyth Realizer seems cheap in comparison. Good job Creative.


 
  
 Ridiculously expensive you say? I think you underestimate just what that term can mean.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Ridiculously expensive you say? I think you underestimate just what that term can mean.



I know there are million dollar dacs in existence but I wes refering to gaming products specifically.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> I know there are million dollar dacs in existence but I wes refering to gaming products specifically.


 
  
 One thing I'll point out is that Creative doesn't seem to be targeting the gaming audience with this product. Nowhere on the page does it mention games or gaming, but "movie" and "home theater" are all over the product. They also spend a lot of text talking about music and streaming services. This is targeting the movie and music lovers, not the gamers.


----------



## Fegefeuer

the more the gaming audience melts with the home theater guys, the better it is for everyone. The more people stop using TV speakers the better, if for HT or headphones. Doesn't matter.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> If only this was around during MLE's soundbar days lol



I know, that's what I thought! Also Rudy started salivating and drooling over Dolby Atmos, which as-yet I don't know if that has a headphone processing component, so could this be a reasonable price for an object-oriented Atmos processor, 15 speakers, and a wireless subwoofer? Before this, I wouldn't have thought of Atmos and Soundbar in the same sentence, lol.





fegefeuer said:


> What happened? Did the X-Fi team strike back to show those SBX guys that they still pack muscle and don't rely on lazy virtual rooms but use geometric data of the user's home now? :evil:



Well, the marketing has literally brought back the X-Fi branding, and I think Dolby Atmos is all object-oriented positioning rather than being made for preset channels. They even talk about interpreting room ambiance effects (indicators of height, or at least reflections off of ceilings) to create a 3D sound from traditional surround or "legacy" (read: stereo).

It also has an optical out. I had thought it might have a headphone jack, but... let's hope for some headphone love.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> If only this was around during MLE's soundbar days lol




Heeeey. I still have my Pioneer Andrew Jones soundbar.


----------



## Evshrug

You like it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My soundbar? Sure, it has an organic tonality to it. Natural. It has no real DSP so the sound is pretty flat with no soundstage, but it sounds much better than TV speakers.


----------



## Evshrug

Easy to do! It was a relief setting back up my bookshelf speakers after moving, I was able to turn off subtitles!


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Hey,
  
 For those that use the Creative Soundblaster X7, how would you compare the overall sound quality with the Astro Mixamp and is it worth the extra money for console gaming? Regarding the headphones used, would I hear a significant upgrade in sound quality using the AD700x? Also regarding positional accuracy, is it clearer when using DD in combination with SBX (or is that not possible?).
  
 Thank you


----------



## lenroot77

confusedpsyduck said:


> Hey,
> 
> For those that use the Creative Soundblaster X7, how would you compare the overall sound quality with the Astro Mixamp and is it worth the extra money for console gaming? Regarding the headphones used, would I hear a significant upgrade in sound quality using the AD700x? Also regarding positional accuracy, is it clearer when using DD in combination with SBX (or is that not possible?).
> 
> Thank you




It's a definite upgrade from the mix amp. As one review said its like taking cotton balls out of your ears. I know there have been people on these forums who have abandoned their other gear because the x7 sounds good enough. 
If u are playing on ps4 I think it's certainly worth the upgrade as long as u get the Bluetooth adapter for chat. I don't know the specifics for Xbox one but I believe it's a bit of a challenge or at least a lot of wires to get chat to work. 

SBX vs DH is an ongoing debate and it varies from person to person. I personally think it's great.


----------



## bavinck

confusedpsyduck said:


> Hey,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


To piggy back on this. Does dd optical output from PS4 work well with surround on headphones? Is it a good simulated surround? I hate the hissing, weak amp and subbass roll off on the mixamp, would this be a good alternative>?


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> confusedpsyduck said:
> 
> 
> > Hey,
> ...


 
 DD is not simulated surround. It's a 5.1 signal meant for surround speakers. X7 transforms it into two channel signal using the SBX algorithm.


----------



## jthom320

bavinck said:


> confusedpsyduck said:
> 
> 
> > Hey,
> ...


 

 As someone who just made the change you are considering the X7 is an upgrade on the Mixamp is every way SQ wise.
  
 I personally think the simulated surround debate between DH and SBX is pretty close.  DH which is what the mixamp uses is probably slightly better for rear positional queues.
  
 However if you are like me and competitive play is important to you but SQ is slightly more important.  X7 10 times out of 10.


----------



## confusedpsyduck

jthom320 said:


> As someone who just made the change you are considering the X7 is an upgrade on the Mixamp is every way SQ wise.
> 
> I personally think the simulated surround debate between DH and SBX is pretty close.  DH which is what the mixamp uses is probably slightly better for rear positional queues.
> 
> However if you are like me and competitive play is important to you but SQ is slightly more important.  X7 10 times out of 10.


 

 That's great. I appreciate everyone's reply by the way, thank you.
  
 Regarding chat audio, I currently don't use any chat functionality of the mixamp and just plug my mic/earphone combo into the DS4 through a splitter cable. Will that combo for chat audio no longer work with game audio outputting to the X7 into my headphones?


----------



## Change is Good

Wow, I had not realized how much of an all rounder (wonderful one, at that) my modded 9500 now is. Back when I installed the Shure velours, I added another layer of felt that I tore from the center of stock pads to tame its treble some more, also resulting in a little more bass. I was debating whether these would stick around when the 400i arrived, but the way they sound (now) there's no way in hell these go anywhere. They are a good bridge between the X00 and 400i, do all genres well, and are perfect to plug and play with my ps4 and mixamp 5.8.

Dare I say my modded 9500 would give the X2 a run for its money? Too bad it's now discontinued...


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> Wow, I had not realized how much of an all rounder (wonderful one, at that) my modded 9500 now is. Back when I installed the Shure velours, I added another layer of felt that I tore from the center of stock pads to tame its treble some more, also resulting in a little more bass. I was debating whether these would stick around when the 400i arrived, but the way they sound (now) there's no way in hell these go anywhere. They are a good bridge between the X00 and 400i, do all genres well, and are perfect to plug and play with my ps4 and mixamp 5.8.
> 
> Dare I say my modded 9500 would give the X2 a run for its money? Too bad it's now discontinued...


 
 My X2's are getting sent back to Amazon, I remember why I got rid of them the first time plus the added QC issues. Bye bye fidelio's it was nice knowing ya.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> My X2's are getting sent back to Amazon, I remember why I got rid of them the first time plus the added QC issues. Bye bye fidelio's it was nice knowing ya.




What is it about the sound that you didn't like? I was underwhelmed when I first bought the X2 a year ago, but I was in the minority. I thought I was either just crazy, or had a faulty pair. Probably the former lol


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> What is it about the sound that you didn't like? I was underwhelmed when I first bought the X2 a year ago, but I was in the minority. I thought I was either just crazy, or had a faulty pair. Probably the former lol


 
 The real reason I cannot keep these headphones is because they are so uncomfortable to me. I tried stretching them, changing their position on my head but nothing works. The X2's create pressure points on the top of my head and temples and they're are hot on my ears. Honestly there is nothing really bad about the sound, there also is nothing amazing (except maybe the soundstage which is quite good) about it either. Overall, if you don't have an issue with comfort, these are good gaming headphones as they work with a vmoda boompro mic, have a non fatiguing sound signature, a great soundstage with good positional accuracy and a good low end to make the games more immersive.
  
 For music, I can think of 10 headphones that could be had in a similar price range that are much more comfortable and better for music, that includes the 9500's I sold ya lol. 
  
 PS. They feel like they weigh about 50 pounds on my head and ears. Annoying.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> The real reason I cannot keep these headphones is because they are so uncomfortable to me. I tried stretching them, changing their position on my head but nothing works. The X2's create pressure points on the top of my head and temples and they're are hot on my ears. Honestly there is nothing really bad about the sound, there also is nothing amazing (except maybe the soundstage which is quite good) about it either. Overall, if you don't have an issue with comfort, these are good gaming headphones as they work with a vmoda boompro mic, have a non fatiguing sound signature, a great soundstage with good positional accuracy and a good low end to make the games more immersive.
> 
> For music, I can think of 10 headphones that could be had in a similar price range that are much more comfortable and better for music, that includes the 9500's I sold ya lol.
> 
> PS. They feel like they weigh about 50 pounds on my head and ears. Annoying.




Comfort wasn't an issue for me, even with my big head. But you're right, its sound was 'meh' for it to be a $300 headphone (what I paid at the time). Others raved, but (like you) I thought there were plenty other headphones in its price range I found to be better. I ended up keeping the HP200 I had and returning the X2, then I switched to the K7XX not long after. Preferred both over the X2, and you just confirmed what I assumed about the 9500. Just imagine what it sounds like, now (thanks for selling it to me, BTW  )

If you still want an open headphone to compliment your X00, I strongly recommend the 400i.


----------



## jthom320

confusedpsyduck said:


> That's great. I appreciate everyone's reply by the way, thank you.
> 
> Regarding chat audio, I currently don't use any chat functionality of the mixamp and just plug my mic/earphone combo into the DS4 through a splitter cable. Will that combo for chat audio no longer work with game audio outputting to the X7 into my headphones?


 

 I don't think so.
  
 You are going to need to buy a bluetooth transmitter to use it with the PS4.
  
 I bought the Creative BT-W2.  I'm using a midmic into the X7 and then the chat adapter.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Rudyrae, are you ready for that thing I was hinting I'd heard rumored Creative was working on? Got your hands firmly gripping your armchair? Get ready to wish you had $1,750, lmao:
> 
> http://us.creative.com/soniccarrier/
> Dolby Atmos 15.2.4 soundbar. With multiple HDMI and optical inputs. Able to connect up to four subwoofers, wirelessly. Comes packed with free lawlz.
> ...


 

 Duuuuuuuude. I saw this yesterday lol
  
 I was like WHAAAAAAAA?!!!!!
  
 I have not been on Head-fi for a few days ever since I started hitting the gym. Get home tired already as it is haha.
  
 I knew it was Dolby Atmos but jeeezes, didnt think it was going to cost that much. Thats the price I paid to build my PC 
  
 Oh man, need to work harder 
  
 Edit: Just read that the $1,750 price is for the first 100 units, after those units are sold, the price goes up....What?
  
 Anyways, what I really want to know is how it is compared to other AVR systems out there. An AV receiver with Dolby Atmos capabilities (5.2.1 or 7.2.1 or even 7.2.2) cost between 500 to 1000 bucks, not including the the speakers, which for a decent pair of speakers cost about 100 bucks each. Though I'm pretty sure that set up sounds really awesome even for its price.

 Im guess this sound bar Creative is releasing is meant for those that are still on a budget and have little room in their apartments.

 This 'sound bar' would be perfect for those playing SW BF on PC, since its the first game to be compatible with Dolby Atmos devices and give you the Dolby Atmos 3D surround sound........
  
 hmmmmmmm mmmmm mm
  
 but all of this is too expensive for me 
  
 Though I would really like to try near field surround sound with some Vanatoo speakers......


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For that much, I'd be getting a new laptop with an external GPU thing.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Catz Introduces the World's First HDMI Gaming Headset - CES 2016
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qGbcuDRJkA
  
 I haven't heard DTS X and its HDMI so I'm really curious about this.


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> Mad Catz Introduces the World's First HDMI Gaming Headset - CES 2016
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qGbcuDRJkA
> 
> I haven't heard DTS X and its HDMI so I'm really curious about this.


 
 Tritton Katana? We've been here. It would be awesome if it allowed the user to use their own headset, or even better had an S/PDIF output alongside the antenna.


----------



## bavinck

jthom320 said:


> As someone who just made the change you are considering the X7 is an upgrade on the Mixamp is every way SQ wise.
> 
> I personally think the simulated surround debate between DH and SBX is pretty close.  DH which is what the mixamp uses is probably slightly better for rear positional queues.
> 
> However if you are like me and competitive play is important to you but SQ is slightly more important.  X7 10 times out of 10.




Thanks, this directly answers my question. 

So, do I just plug optical from ps4 to x7 to get surround sound in my headphones (like the mixamp)?

I assume the ps4 has to be set to output Dolby digital over optical, just like the mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Thanks, this directly answers my question.
> 
> So, do I just plug optical from ps4 to x7 to get surround sound in my headphones (like the mixamp)?
> 
> I assume the ps4 has to be set to output Dolby digital over optical, just like the mixamp?


 
 Yup, but results will get better after installing either the PC app or the mobile one and tweaking the SBX settings.


----------



## bavinck

yethal said:


> Yup, but results will get better after installing either the PC app or the mobile one and tweaking the SBX settings.


 
 Thanks. Is it worth the price of entry compared to the mixamp? Honestly, this will mostly be used for movies and the mixamp sucks with the stupid 35 Hz roll off.


----------



## Change is Good

This is just my opinion, but the X7 is overkill for console, only. We don't have the best visuals, and audio quality is limited, as well. I'd say stick with the mixamp until you end up going all-in-one on a desktop.


----------



## Yethal

X7 makes sense if You're planning to use all of it's features so if You want to use it for gaming only then yeah, it's kind of an overkill. But if You need an all in one DSP, DAC, headphone and speaker amp then X7 is Your best bet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DTS Headphone X... for the love of audio, they need to sell this unit without the headset.

ALl that excitement disappears when you're limited to wonky headsets. Just give us the damn option.


----------



## Sam21

sorry if this is off topic, But I have a question :
  
  
 Would the PlaystationVR work if I connect it to my PC through the HDMI port ?


----------



## rudyae86

sam21 said:


> sorry if this is off topic, But I have a question :
> 
> 
> Would the PlaystationVR work if I connect it to my PC through the HDMI port ?




Too early for that question but my guess is it probably won't work unless the PC master race finds a workaround (which they always do).

I want to also guess that the PS VR could initially be proprietary. Oculus seems to be a better option overall for a PC user


----------



## Yethal

Oculus costs 600$ and only 1% of all PC gamers meet minimum specs for it. I know that this is Head-Fi, and audio can be hundred times more expensive than that but still, come on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm 100% certain all these VR devices initially coming out will be hella proprietary. The only thing that will not be will be the Microsoft Hololens since I'm sure Microsoft wants that thing to be everywhere, like schools and hospitals, so it's def gonna be XB1 and PC.

I do hope a company decides to make one that works for all types of systems. PS4, Phone, PC, etc.


----------



## shuto77

Hey, @Yethal, thanks for getting the X7-to-PS4 chat diagram up on the site, and thank to MLE for giving it the O.K. 
  
 I seem to have run into an issue, however. It seems that the  OEM Bluetooth dongle that you recommended to me  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231680791370?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) simply will not sync with the X7. The PS4 DOES recognize it when I plug my microphone into the X7 as a USB headset, but  the Bluetooth dongle will not sync with the X7. 
  
 I've adjusted the Device settings, the Bluetooth settings and the Audio settings, to no avail.
  
 PM me if you might be able to walk me through it somehow. 
  
 Thanks for all your help!


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Hey, @Yethal, thanks for getting the X7-to-PS4 chat diagram up on the site, and thank to MLE for giving it the O.K.
> 
> I seem to have run into an issue, however. It seems that the  OEM Bluetooth dongle that you recommended to me  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/231680791370?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT) simply will not sync with the X7. The PS4 DOES recognize it when I plug my microphone into the X7 as a USB headset, but  the Bluetooth dongle will not sync with the X7.
> 
> ...


 
 On it
 I did some more diagrams, waiting for MLE to approve and add them.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> I'm 100% certain all these VR devices initially coming out will be hella proprietary. The only thing that will not be will be the Microsoft Hololens since I'm sure Microsoft wants that thing to be everywhere, like schools and hospitals, so it's def gonna be XB1 and PC.
> 
> I do hope a company decides to make one that works for all types of systems. PS4, Phone, PC, etc.


 
  
 Totally off-topic, but I picked up a Beyerdynamic T70 because a buddy said it was great for heavy metal - and it is. After my first day with it, I was ready to return it, and I sent my friend a scathing review of the headphone that I thought was terrible. But I was wrong. 
  
 Even though you are not into the same type of music I'm into, you made some great points about a headphone that is highly divisive. The best advice you gave is to give it some time, because it does not make a strong first impression. Your review kept me from returning it after the first day. I found your review to be spot-on (link: http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-t70/). 
  
 Granted, I had to replace the pads, but since then, I have. not. been. able to take them off. They're wonderful for rock and metal. If Beyer had put better pads on these things, and made the cable detachable, I truly believe these would have been an all-around classic. 
  
 Now, as far as gaming goes, they need A LOT of EQ, and I haven't solved that puzzle yet. I played Destiny last night with them, and it was a catastrophe. The treble was super peaky. and painful at times. 
  
 Just wanted to give you some props for a review that you may not have gotten much feedback on. 
  
 It's a shame the headphone has been so unsuccessful  - my serial number is 5801, and it's been out for almost five years. I feel strongly that the stock pads are to blame.


----------



## odib

Hi guys I just bought the new Mixamp TR (PS4) for my G4me Ones. I am getting some hiss/static when both my Mixamp and headphones are set to near max volume, however when I disable the sidetone the hiss/static disappears. I was wondering if anyone else with the new TRs are having the same experience as me?


----------



## bavinck

NAyone preorder the g5? The connections look like it is coaxial digital in, not optical like the ps4 has. How do we connect the ps4 to it?


----------



## Sam21

it is optical, You're gonna need this adaptor :


----------



## lenroot77

bavinck said:


> NAyone preorder the g5? The connections look like it is coaxial digital in, not optical like the ps4 has. How do we connect the ps4 to it?




The required cable is included with the G5. Just looked in the box.


----------



## bavinck

sam21 said:


> it is optical, You're gonna need this adaptor :


 
  
  
 Is that a digital optical to coaxial adaper? I have a good long optical cable for my ps4, that would work.


----------



## bavinck

lenroot77 said:


> The required cable is included with the G5. Just looked in the box.


 
 You have a g5? Do you like it? Does it use the same android software as the x7 to modify the surround?


----------



## Sam21

bavinck said:


> Is that a digital optical to coaxial adaper? I have a good long optical cable for my ps4, that would work.


 
  
 it is an optical to optical adapter...just as we have 3.5mm and 6.5mm stereo jacks/plugs, we also have two different types of optical jacks/plugs


----------



## bavinck

sam21 said:


> it is an optical to optical adapter...just as we have 3.5mm and 6.5mm stereo jacks/plugs, we also have two different types of optical jacks/plugs


 
 Gotcha.


----------



## bavinck

bavinck said:


> Gotcha.


 
 Now that I think about it, is that the same input the mixamp takes?


----------



## kellte2

bavinck said:


> Now that I think about it, is that the same input the mixamp takes?




Yes, starting in the 2013 edition.


----------



## bavinck

kellte2 said:


> Yes, starting in the 2013 edition.


 
 Thanks, I already have the right connect as I use the 2015 mixamp currently.


----------



## Evshrug

bavinck said:


> NAyone preorder the g5? The connections look like it is coaxial digital in, not optical like the ps4 has. How do we connect the ps4 to it?



No coaxial, the G5 has the same optical connection as the Mixamp/Recon3D



sam21 said:


> it is optical, You're gonna need this adaptor :



It's called a mini-toslink. Still optical, but it's narrow enough to allow a port to handle both optical and 3.5mm headphone jacks.

The above adapter is toslink to mini-toslink. You probably don't need it because (as Lenroot said) there is one included with the G5, unless you need an even longer one.

The G5 has a settings/control app for Android and iOS, yes, but it's a different one from the one designed for the X7. The X7 itself doesn't run android, just a custom built-in OS to make all the connections and audio settings work.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> No coaxial, the G5 has the same optical connection as the Mixamp/Recon3D


 
  
 I just want to correct this. That connection is different than on the mixamp, but same as the Recon3D.


----------



## shuto77

bavinck said:


> Thanks, I already have the right connect as I use the 2015 mixamp currently.







evshrug said:


> No coaxial, the G5 has the same optical connection as the Mixamp/Recon3D
> It's called a mini-toslink. Still optical, but it's narrow enough to allow a port to handle both optical and 3.5mm headphone jacks.
> 
> The above adapter is toslink to mini-toslink. You probably don't need it because (as Lenroot said) there is one included with the G5, unless you need an even longer one.
> ...







change is good said:


> I just want to correct this. That connection is different than on the mixamp, but same as the Recon3D.




So, we're referring to a SPDIF cable - optical out from source, 3.5mm to the E5/G5?


----------



## bavinck

Bought an x7, the g5 I don't think will do what I want.


----------



## shuto77

bavinck said:


> Bought an x7, the g5 I don't think will do what I want.


 
  
 The X7 is a nice device. We all complain about it because it could be a fantastic one. I imagine you've gathered that already, though.


----------



## tripawd

Is it true that if I have an astro mix amp, a fiio e9 DAC, and AKG 702 that I should not turn on Dolby 5.1 on the mix amp?  I think I am noticing a huge difference in the quality of the stage without the 5.1 on.


----------



## shuto77

tripawd said:


> Is it true that if I have an astro mix amp, a fiio e9 DAC, and AKG 702 that I should not turn on Dolby 5.1 on the mix amp?  I think I am noticing a huge difference in the quality of the stage without the 5.1 on.


 
  
 What you're probably hearing is two-channel stereo instead of 5-channel Dolby. You may prefer it for gaming, but that's a little odd. If you want surround sound, you want Dolby 5.1 turned on.


----------



## bavinck

Is there general agreement on surround settings that work well?


----------



## shuto77

bavinck said:


> Is there general agreement on surround settings that work well?


 
  
 In my limited experience (AKG K7XX, Fidelio X2, Beyerdynamic T70, HIFIMAN HE-400i), it is highly dependent on the headphone you're using and the type of game you're playing. 
  
 There are some pre-sets, called "profiles." I like to start with them, and tweak the sound as necessary. For warmer headphones, Scout Mode is very cool - it works like a charm with the X2. With the T70s, I used "First Person Shooter" mode, and it was literally painful. I fully expected my ears to bleed from the experience. I was fiddling with the HE-400is, and I couldn't get it to sound right. 
  
 After almost a year with it, I'm finally getting a handle on the sound I want for a given type of game.


----------



## bavinck

shuto77 said:


> In my limited experience (AKG K7XX, Fidelio X2, Beyerdynamic T70, HIFIMAN HE-400i), it is highly dependent on the headphone you're using and the type of game you're playing.
> 
> There are some pre-sets, called "profiles." I like to start with them, and tweak the sound as necessary. For warmer headphones, Scout Mode is very cool - it works like a charm with the X2. With the T70s, I used "First Person Shooter" mode, and it was literally painful. I fully expected my ears to bleed from the experience. I was fiddling with the HE-400is, and I couldn't get it to sound right.
> 
> After almost a year with it, I'm finally getting a handle on the sound I want for a given type of game.




Thanks dude. Isn't there s percent setting for the dsp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just set it to 100% and don't bother with the other options. Scout mode, crystallizer, bass boost that's all just various forms of EQ made simple for people who don't know how to mess with frequencies. You mainly want to avoid EQ unless you feel like your headphone is lacking something, in which the equalizer in the software itself would be better at dialing in what the problem areas of your headphone are.

The less you go from 100% surround setting, the less soundstage and space for positional cues.


----------



## yding202

Is it just me or is the headphone stand on the X7 flimsy as hell and wobbly?  I really don't trust that this thing won't like fall over and throw my expensive headphones on the ground...
  
 I think they either need a stiffer material or a better attachment mechanism maybe?


----------



## confusedpsyduck

So I've ordered the X7 and I just have a few questions regarding connecting the microphone.
  
 So the cable for the mic is pretty short and requires extending to connect with the X7, would I require a 4 pole or 3 pole extension cable?
  
 Should any bluetooth usb soundcard work for chat or do I need the Creative one?
  
 Thank you.


----------



## jumper

I'll be getting a X7 for console gaming soon to upgrade from my Mixamp thanks to this thread. On a different subject, can anybody recommend a somewhat portable or easy to manage (size wise) external device that has a headphone DSP so I can have surround from a tablet streaming Netflix? Portable as in around the house, not like in my back pocket strolling around town.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> Just set it to 100% and don't bother with the other options. Scout mode, crystallizer, bass boost that's all just various forms of EQ made simple for people who don't know how to mess with frequencies. You mainly want to avoid EQ unless you feel like your headphone is lacking something, in which the equalizer in the software itself would be better at dialing in what the problem areas of your headphone are.
> 
> The less you go from 100% surround setting, the less soundstage and space for positional cues.




What about expanding dynamic range from medium to high? Do you think that setting helps any?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's something that can be unchecked, uncheck it.

I forgot, I'll have to check when I get home.


----------



## kamieldehond

Just wanted to point you guys to a post of Stillhart in the G5 thread saying console virtual surround is comming to G5. http://www.head-fi.org/t/790796/creative-g5-discussion-and-reviews/90#post_12243887
  
 If this is true i'll buy the G5 in a hartbeat to replace my mixamp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

soooooooo, we X7 users are still not getting anything worthwhile, while the lower series get 7.1 SBX, LO/OO features etc.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> soooooooo, we X7 users are still not getting anything worthwhile, while the lower series get 7.1 SBX, LO/OO features etc.




For now, only on PC


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> What about expanding dynamic range from medium to high? Do you think that setting helps any?



Set it to maximum. This setting should be set to less than that only if You're using ****ty headphones.


----------



## kellte2

rudyae86 said:


> For now, only on PC




Honestly is there any benefit to virtualized 7.1 versus Dolby Encoded 5.1 virtualization? I know at the mixamp at one point advertised 7.1 virtualization, but i thought that previous discussion on this thread had deemed it as kind of a gimmick. Maybe I'm wrong...


----------



## Drizz1e

A few weeks ago I bought a Mixamp TR and the SHP9500s. The problem is that the Mixamp sucks all of the bass out when I turn on Dolby Headphone. I did some research and it seems to be normal, but would pairing it with another amp allow me to regain the bass that I've lost? EQ'ing may be an option, but I have no idea what I'm doing with it as I'm fairly new to this hobby. Also, for anyone who's used the X2s with the Mixamp: does the same thing happen or does it retain some of its bass due to being more bassy than the 9500 in general?


----------



## mindbomb

drizz1e said:


> A few weeks ago I bought a Mixamp TR and the SHP9500s. The problem is that the Mixamp sucks all of the bass out when I turn on Dolby Headphone. I did some research and it seems to be normal, but would pairing it with another amp allow me to regain the bass that I've lost? EQ'ing may be an option, but I have no idea what I'm doing with it as I'm fairly new to this hobby. Also, for anyone who's used the X2s with the Mixamp: does the same thing happen or does it retain some of its bass due to being more bassy than the 9500 in general?


 
 You want to make sure you are sending a 5.1 signal to the mixamp. A lot of the bass comes from mixing the subwoofer channel into the headphone channels.


----------



## bavinck

mindbomb said:


> You want to make sure you are sending a 5.1 signal to the mixamp. A lot of the bass comes from mixing the subwoofer channel into the headphone channels.


 
 I don't get a loss of bass when using mixamp surround. I do get clipping with subbass cuz the mixamp sucks, but other than that it sound normal.


----------



## Drizz1e

I do have my consoles feeding Dolby 5.1 to the Mixamp. I'm not sure if the 9500s are just bad with Dolby Headphone or what. My X2s should be arriving in a few days so I'll do some testing to see if there's a significant difference.


----------



## mindbomb

bavinck said:


> I don't get a loss of bass when using mixamp surround. I do get clipping with subbass cuz the mixamp sucks, but other than that it sound normal.


 
  
 you can get clipping cause you are summing the volume of multiple channels, and it can go out of range. Try to lower your console volume by a few decibels to give yourself some headroom.


----------



## bavinck

mindbomb said:


> you can get clipping cause you are summing the volume of multiple channels, and it can go out of range. Try to lower your console volume by a few decibels to give yourself some headroom.



 


The clipping I am referring to is the sub bass roll off at 35 Hz the mixamp does.


----------



## mindbomb

bavinck said:


> The clipping I am referring to is the sub bass roll off at 35 Hz the mixamp does.


 
  
 Oh. I believe that's caused by poor quality capacitors and can be lessened by using high impedance headphones.


----------



## bavinck

You guys have any experience with x7 converting stereo sound into surround with SBX? Does it work well?


----------



## bavinck

mindbomb said:


> Oh. I believe that's caused by poor quality capacitors and can be lessened by using high impedance headphones.


 
 Whatever it is, it is not super noticable in games - but in movies it sounds horrible,.


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> You guys have any experience with x7 converting stereo sound into surround with SBX? Does it work well?


 
 Nope, it's awful. But the X7 can work with the 5.1 signal as well.


----------



## burritoboy9984

drizz1e said:


> I do have my consoles feeding Dolby 5.1 to the Mixamp. I'm not sure if the 9500s are just bad with Dolby Headphone or what. My X2s should be arriving in a few days so I'll do some testing to see if there's a significant difference.




I haven't tried the X2's, but for competitive purposes I prefer the 9500's over my X1's. They are great for gaming.


----------



## Drizz1e

I'm not a competitive FPS player, though. I'm more concerned with immersion and fun. Even without the Mixamp, I definitely wouldn't classify the 9500 as fun. I don't have a problem with the with the actual sound quality, but I think they might not be for me. Hopefully the X2s will still rectify my problems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal, I'll put the rest of the setups tonight.


----------



## rudyae86

burritoboy9984 said:


> I haven't tried the X2's, but for competitive purposes I prefer the 9500's over my X1's. They are great for gaming.


 
 9500 shatters my ears most of the time. They are great headphones otherwise but the X2s are better overall for gaming, for me that is. Even the HD598s are great for gaming and playing competitively. The one thing I really like from the 9500 is their imaging but other than that.....I could only wear them for 1 hour at the most before the knifes start stabbing lol


----------



## shuto77

If I were an investor, I would work with the community to build a $200 proper Mixamp killer. You know, what the G5 should have been.


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> If I were an investor, I would work with the community to build a $200 proper Mixamp killer. You know, what the G5 should have been.


 
 The G5 might be.......read several posts above and you will see why.
  
 Well, if you are referring to the surround sound for consoles that is....


----------



## shuto77

rudyae86 said:


> The G5 might be.......read several posts above and you will see why.
> 
> Well, if you are referring to the surround sound for consoles that is....




There's some conflicting information going around. The Creative rep I chatted with today told me the G5 doesn't have a Dolby Digital Decoder, so it's limited to 2-channel stereo via consoles and "simulated 7.1" via pc. He then directed me to the user guide for the G5.

Creative reps told a Headfier the opposite, so perhaps they changed their minds about the Dolby Digital Processing.


----------



## Sam21

shuto77 said:


> There's some conflicting information going around. The Creative rep I chatted with today told me the G5 doesn't have a Dolby Digital Decoder, so it's limited to 2-channel stereo via consoles and "simulated 7.1" via pc. He then directed me to the user guide for the G5.
> 
> Creative reps told a Headfier the opposite, so perhaps they changed their minds about the Dolby Digital Processing.


 
 on paper the G5 should be able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1 because the DSP chip in it [Axx1] is DD certified. My guess is that it is a marketing scheme, to put some functionality on some products and some on other products.


----------



## shuto77

sam21 said:


> on paper the G5 should be able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1 because the DSP chip in it [Axx1] is DD certified. My guess is that it is a marketing scheme, to put some functionality on some products and some on other products.


 
  
 Right, the question is whether it's a hardware or software limitation. Based on what you're saying, it shouldn't be a hardware limitation. 
  
 I don't fully understand all of this stuff, so I don't want to make this issue any murkier; I just wanted to communicate what they told me.


----------



## Sam21

the DSP chip is nothing but a small CPU, There is also a memory chip that holds the firmware, you can put the DD decoding algorithm in the memory chip via a firmware update. The DSP then can run the algorithm and decode DD5.1 or Do SBX/EQ etc...
  
  
  
 DD certified means it has the necessary permissions from Dolby to put their decoding algorithm in the memory chip and process it with the DSP.


----------



## shuto77

sam21 said:


> the DSP chip is nothing but a small CPU, There is also a memory chip that holds the firmware, you can put the DD decoding algorithm in the memory chip via a firmware update. The DSP then can run the algorithm and decode DD5.1 or Do SBX/EQ etc...
> 
> 
> 
> DD certified means it has the necessary permissions from Dolby to put their decoding algorithm in the memory chip and process it with the DSP.


 
  
 Yeah... This is why I tried to get one of Creative's engineers in here, so you guys can get these answers. When the rep told me it was a hardware limitation, I didn't know enough about it to question it. 
  
 He also told me that outputting the optical signal on the X7 could only be done in stereo because it complies with the s/pdif standards, and that it's standard on PC. That didn't make sense to me, but again, he said it was a hardware limitation, so I didn't press. 
  
 I did say that their new Sonic Carrier is rediculous, and that they should instead be trying to work out the issues with the X7. The rep's response was that "everything in sound is subjective."


----------



## Sam21

shuto77 said:


> Yeah... This is why I tried to get one of Creative's engineers in here, so you guys can get these answers. When the rep told me it was a hardware limitation, I didn't know enough about it to question it.
> 
> *He also told me that outputting the optical signal on the X7 could only be done in stereo* because it complies with the s/pdif standards, and that it's standard on PC. That didn't make sense to me, but again, he said it was a hardware limitation, so I didn't press.
> 
> I did say that their new Sonic Carrier is rediculous, and that they should instead be trying to work out the issues with the X7. The rep's response was that "everything in sound is subjective."


 
  
 the G5 can output headphone surround through optical/Line out....The X7 should be able to do the same thing....


----------



## halcyon

> Originally Posted by *shuto77* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> He also told me that outputting the optical signal on the X7 could only be done in stereo because it complies with the s/pdif standards, and that it's standard on PC. That didn't make sense to me, but again, he said it was a hardware limitation, so I didn't press.


 
  
 Like stated above, the SBX Studio Pro virtualized headphone signal coming out of the X7 front headphone jack is stereo. 100% compatible with the SPDIF/Optical stereo output.
  
 They might have some other hardware limitation within X7 not to be able to do it, bu the connections are not the limit.
  
 I'm getting the G5 myself and forgetting about X7. With the upcoming G5 software update it should be able to take DD 5.1 digital input from consoles and do headphone virtualization then for PC and console games, something that X7 can't do (as of yet, anyway).
  
 Creative didn't do their market research properly on this and missed an opportunity to really make X7 an all-around device.


----------



## Moe91

Hey guys how are yall doing today. So I have a problem I am competitive csgo player and I use the akg q701 which I love but the problem is they are open back and I have alot of background noise. I was wondering what would you guys recommended for closed back I know they are not as good as open but the background noise is unbearable. 

Thank you


----------



## Trojita

Are the new Marantz receivers still capable of Dolby Headphone? Does the Denon x line not have them?


----------



## jthom320

moe91 said:


> Hey guys how are yall doing today. So I have a problem I am competitive csgo player and I use the akg q701 which I love but the problem is they are open back and I have alot of background noise. I was wondering what would you guys recommended for closed back I know they are not as good as open but the background noise is unbearable.
> 
> Thank you


 

 I just recently bought a set of Mr Speakers Mad Dogs as a closed gaming/music set for when the background noise at my place is high.  I have not gotten them yet but I have been told by multiple people that the sound stage is very good a for a closed headphone.  YMMV of course and I haven't even tried them myself but they are currently on sale direct through their website.


----------



## inseconds99

halcyon said:


> Like stated above, the SBX Studio Pro virtualized headphone signal coming out of the X7 front headphone jack is stereo. 100% compatible with the SPDIF/Optical stereo output.
> 
> They might have some other hardware limitation within X7 not to be able to do it, bu the connections are not the limit.
> 
> ...


 

Am I missing something or was it confirmed that they're def doing 5.1 from consoles? Do you have a link to anything confirming this information?


----------



## yding202

moe91 said:


> Hey guys how are yall doing today. So I have a problem I am competitive csgo player and I use the akg q701 which I love but the problem is they are open back and I have alot of background noise. I was wondering what would you guys recommended for closed back I know they are not as good as open but the background noise is unbearable.
> 
> Thank you


 
 I'm not sure what price range you're looking at, but I personally think that my Audeze EL8 closed back's are fantastic for gaming.  The planar bass gives you good fun factor and immersion, while the treble that some people characterize as 'peaky' is actually great for competitive play (i.e. listening for footsteps, etc).  In terms of soundstage, it certainly is no HD800, but I think it actually is better than the HD650 or Oppo PM-3 (the only other two headphones I have gamed with). They also have really good isolation for blocking out noise.


----------



## Drizz1e

Well, I received my Fidelio X2s today and I think my issue was just the 9500s lacking bass in general. In stereo they have just enough to be noticeable, but I think Dolby Headphone (or at least, the Mixamp's) makes it a bit harder to recognize. Because the audio sounds like it's coming from actual speakers around you, rather than 2 speakers inside your head, it makes the the bass a bit more distant if that makes any sense. Anyway, I've only used my X2s for about an hour but so far I think they sound a lot closer to what I'm looking for. I do think that I'd prefer SBX though, as I would rather have better sound quality than 100% accurate positional audio. Hopefully the G5 will be right up my alley if the rumors are true as an X7 wouldn't be worth it for me.


----------



## Change is Good

drizz1e said:


> Well, I received my Fidelio X2s today and *I think my issue was just the 9500s lacking bass in general*. In stereo they have just enough to be noticeable, but I think Dolby Headphone (or at least, the Mixamp's) makes it a bit harder to recognize. Because the audio sounds like it's coming from actual speakers around you, rather than 2 speakers inside your head, it makes the the bass a bit more distant if that makes any sense. Anyway, I've only used my X2s for about an hour but so far I think they sound a lot closer to what I'm looking for. I do think that I'd prefer SBX though, as I would rather have better sound quality than 100% accurate positional audio. Hopefully the G5 will be right up my alley if the rumors are true as an X7 wouldn't be worth it for me.


 
  
 Changing pads will help with that.


----------



## shuto77

moe91 said:


> Hey guys how are yall doing today. So I have a problem I am competitive csgo player and I use the akg q701 which I love but the problem is they are open back and I have alot of background noise. I was wondering what would you guys recommended for closed back I know they are not as good as open but the background noise is unbearable.
> 
> Thank you




Hi-

I had a NAD Viso HP50 that I used for a couple weeks. It's very open-sounding for a closed headphone. I returned because I didn't love it. 

It's quite a bit different in sound than your AKGs, however. The NADs have slightly warm sound but are good overall. 

Just know that almost any headphone you get - especially a closed one - will at first seem much less comfortable than your AKGs. 

What's your price range?


----------



## Moe91

Sorry I Should have added my budget its 100-250
  
  
 Thank you guys for all your help and replies


----------



## Change is Good

moe91 said:


> Sorry I Should have added my budget its 100-250
> 
> 
> Thank you guys for all your help and replies




I've tried quite a few closed cans in that price range, and my favs were the AKG K267, MrSpeakers Mad Dog, and SoundMAGIC HP100.

The K267 is currently on massdrop. A steal for the $129 price tag, I may add.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dolby Headphone should be ADDING bass, not lacking in it, so I dunno how someone thinks DH is making them lose bass.

Yes 35hz and lower is missing essentially, but that's the low, low bass, not the meat of it.

Going from DH to stereo or SBX is losing a bit of warmth in general.


----------



## halcyon

mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone should be ADDING bass, not lacking in it, so I dunno how someone thinks DH is making them lose bass.
> 
> Yes 35hz and lower is missing essentially, but that's the low, low bass, not the meat of it.
> 
> Going from DH to stereo or SBX is losing a bit of warmth in general.


 


 That was my impression as well (comparing online recordings of DH at various settings).
  
 However, the artificial room echo/reverbation introduced by Dolby Headphone processing is just insanely horrible for wide open space 3D games like RPGs etc. It feels like I'm moving around with an invisible reflective cube around myself.
  
 Yes, hearing gets accommodated to just about anything, but compared to real-life, DH open space echo is so artificial that it really spoils it for me.
  
 Now, If somebody would actually buy/try one of the newer (2015 model) Onkyo receivers with Dolby Atmos and DTS Headphone:X, we could find out if there's now something better on the market in terms of headphone 3D sound virtualization. The DTS Headphone:X demo reels sound great indeed, with even passable elevation illusion. It's just that non-integrated (i.e. don't come with crappy headphones) solutions seems to be almost non-existent for DTS Headphone:X. Same for Dolby Atmos....


----------



## Drizz1e

mad lust envy said:


> Dolby Headphone should be ADDING bass, not lacking in it, so I dunno how someone thinks DH is making them lose bass.
> 
> Yes 35hz and lower is missing essentially, but that's the low, low bass, not the meat of it.
> 
> Going from DH to stereo or SBX is losing a bit of warmth in general.


 

 Well, it's definitely not. I have my PS4/360/PS3 set to output 5.1 through optical and everything is hooked up correctly. I've tried it with multiple games and it doesn't make much of a difference. I'm not sure if it's the games I play lacking bass or the Mixamp not working properly. Even in a game like Metro 2033 I don't get that much. There's more when I'm using my X2s but it still doesn't really compare to stereo. I can't stand stereo for most games though, because I hate having  loud sounds playing in only one ear.
  
 I also noticed that aside from Tournament and the flat EQ, the Mixamp's presets sound pretty muffled and terrible. I've been using this one that was posted on the Astro forums:
  
 http://forums.astrogaming.com/index.php?attachments/beastmode-png.2389/
  
 I don't know if this is causing any of my problems but it does make things sound a lot better than the other presets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't know what to tell you. It all depends on what headphone you're using. In any case, there is no way DH should be reducing bass compared to Stereo, at all. DH is notorious for adding more than the original amount. Definitely more than THX, SBX, CMSS-3D and stereo. This has been a topic talked about years ago, for people deciding on which virtual surround to use. DH is the warmest by a considerable amount.

edit: Oh you're using a newer Mixamp with presets? There's your problem. You're probably using one with a reduction in bass. Case solved. Find one that is FLAT (as in no EQ), and you'd see. I don't even trust their flat mode, last time I had a 2013 Mixamp which sounded slightly different from my Mixamp with no presets.

Then again, I don't know how these newer Mixamps sound. Their sound may be too different from before.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This is true. DHP is adding bass like no other VST. Used an STX for 2 years straight for DEDICATED DHP Gaming.
  
 I have fond memories of BC2/BF3 gaming with the STX. Those damn tanks when they exploded. Magnificient.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wonder if he overwrote the presets that were in the Mixamp by default. I know yiou can download some presets online opr something, but I never tried it. Probably erased the true flat preset and got replaced with something worse.

Also, I wonder if the surround setting is affected as well, ala PC software going from 0-100%

Also, I never, advise on using any preset that isn't flat, unless you have a major problem with the way your headphone sounds.


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy here You go


Spoiler: Connection Diagrams




  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  



 Make no mistake everybody, Comic Sans was chosen on purpose.


----------



## Drizz1e

> edit: Oh you're using a newer Mixamp with presets? There's your problem. You're probably using one with a reduction in bass. Case solved. Find one that is FLAT (as in no EQ), and you'd see. I don't even trust their flat mode, last time I had a 2013 Mixamp which sounded slightly different from my Mixamp with no presets.
> 
> Then again, I don't know how these newer Mixamps sound. Their sound may be too different from before.


 
 So is the Mixamp Pro (2011) the most recent version of the Mixamp that you would recommend? It seems like the only downside would be having to wire my mic to my controller, but since I rarely chat I guess it's not a big deal. I'd much rather have proper virtual surround. I also haven't really played with the flat EQ that much but I'll try it some more tonight and see if it helps. If it doesn't I'll just return it and get an older Mixamp.
  
 Edit 1: Yeah, the "flat" EQ doesn't help at all.
  
 Edit 2: I did some searching and found that the 2011 is the one that you recommend: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-1-14-2016-final-section-updated/33555#post_12200818
  
 It also looks like I don't have to wire boompro the controller after all, so there don't seem to be any downsides.
  
 I'll just go ahead and order it off of ebay since it's pretty cheap, and return the TR.


----------



## MAJT

Hey,
  
 First post in this forum. I am by no means an audiophile but I just built a decent new gaming rig and would really value your input on the best headphones for my setup and room. My comp setup: i5-6600k @ 4.3ghz, 16 GB ram, 170X gaming 5 mobo, gtx 570 and for sound the Sound Blaster Z. It's rated for 600 ohm max output but I can understand how a dedicated amp would produce better sound. I don't think I want to go that hardcore yet. I typically game late at night after my wife and daughter go to sleep and I play for 1-2hrs most nights, mostly Starcraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. I've read through the original post and I think I like the idea of open for a better sound stage but I am worried about the amount of noise they will leak because my daughter is sleeping about 30 feet away with the door open a bit (we live in a small condo currently). I like the price point of the Beyerdynamic DT 880 ~ $300CDN and I would prefer to stay under the $300 mark but I am looking for the best value. I currently have my older Sony MDR-NC60's hooked up to the front panel of my case which connects directly to the Sound Blaster Z.
  
 What are your thoughts on my older headphones? (Sony MDR-NC60's).
  
 My buddy has the Audio Technica ATH-M50X and he loves them. They are really highly reviewed on most of the web (CNET best under $200) and positive reviews everywhere else. A few critical reviews on this forum though. I can buy them for $200CDN.
  
 Would I be just as happy with those for those games I play? or would the Beyerdynamic's better suit me DT770, DT880 or DT990? I want the best sound for games and occasional movies/music but I think the closed design might be better for late night gaming. My ambient noise is very low late night.
  
 Thank you in advance.


----------



## Change is Good

majt said:


> Hey,
> 
> First post in this forum. I am by no means an audiophile but I just built a decent new gaming rig and would really value your input on the best headphones for my setup and room. My comp setup: i5-6600k @ 4.3ghz, 16 GB ram, 170X gaming 5 mobo, gtx 570 and for sound the Sound Blaster Z. It's rated for 600 ohm max output but I can understand how a dedicated amp would produce better sound. I don't think I want to go that hardcore yet. I typically game late at night after my wife and daughter go to sleep and I play for 1-2hrs most nights, mostly Starcraft 2 and Heroes of the Storm. I've read through the original post and I think I like the idea of open for a better sound stage but I am worried about the amount of noise they will leak because my daughter is sleeping about 30 feet away with the door open a bit (we live in a small condo currently). I like the price point of the Beyerdynamic DT 880 ~ $300CDN and I would prefer to stay under the $300 mark but I am looking for the best value. I currently have my older Sony MDR-NC60's hooked up to the front panel of my case which connects directly to the Sound Blaster Z.
> 
> ...




I strongly suggest you choose the AKG K267 over the M50X. Similar tone, but better and cheaper.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k267-tiesto-dj-headphones


----------



## MAJT

change is good said:


> I strongly suggest you choose the AKG K267 over the M50X. Similar tone, but better and cheaper.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k267-tiesto-dj-headphones


 

 Those AKG K267 are way out of my price range, the cheapest I googled is $450 CAD. More than twice what I can find the ATH-M50X's for.


----------



## MAJT

Those AKG K267 are more than double the ATH-M50X's in Canada. The cheapest set found is $446 + tax + shipping. No thanks. Trying to stay under $300 (CAD). $300 CAD = $209 USD. Ridiculous exchange rate right now...


----------



## Change is Good

It's $129 USD on the link. I think they have a forwarding service for international shipping, too.


----------



## MAJT

Quote:


change is good said:


> It's $129 USD on the link. I think they have a forwarding service for international shipping, too.


 
  
 $130 USD + $14 USD shipping = $207 CAD plus there will also be duties, I've had upwards of $60 on something similarly priced. That being said, these will set me back closer to $250+ CAD which is about $25 more than we driving to my local store for a set of ATH-m50x's.
  
 For about $50 more I can get the Beyerdynamic's from a local store which Mad Lust said the DT990's are one of the best for gaming. Gaming is my #1 priority and it's hard to believe a DJ inspired model is the right model for me. $129USD is a great price for these, no doubt. However, they get mediocre reviews. How do these perform in games *Change is good*?


----------



## Change is Good

majt said:


> Quote:
> 
> $130 USD + $14 USD shipping = $207 CAD plus there will also be duties, I've had upwards of $60 on something similarly priced. That being said, these will set me back closer to $250+ CAD which is about $25 more than we driving to my local store for a set of ATH-m50x's.
> 
> For about $50 more I can get the Beyerdynamic's from a local store which Mad Lust said the DT990's are one of the best for gaming. Gaming is my #1 priority and it's hard to believe a DJ inspired model is the right model for me. $129USD is a great price for these, no doubt. However, they get mediocre reviews. How do these perform in games *Change is good*?




Better than the M50, I'll say that much. But U was just assuming you need closed headphones. Either way, choice is completely up to you. Bummer about not being able to get that great deal since you are in Canada.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Better than the M50, I'll say that much. But U was just assuming you need closed headphones. Either way, choice is completely up to you. Bummer about not being able to get that great deal since you are in Canada.




If your daughter is asleep I wouldn't worry about open headphones especially if I are chatting. My experience with my son who is about 30 feet away is once he's down he's down. The leakage is not much louder than say a fan running. And if I are playing games and chatting your voice will be louder anyhow.

The dt990's are great for games and movies as well. I've had them a couple times. But if u really are against open headphones maybe consider the dt770's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> here You go
> 
> 
> ...




You are a beast. <3


----------



## MAJT

lenroot77 said:


> If your daughter is asleep I wouldn't worry about open headphones especially if I are chatting. My experience with my son who is about 30 feet away is once he's down he's down. The leakage is not much louder than say a fan running. And if I are playing games and chatting your voice will be louder anyhow.
> 
> The dt990's are great for games and movies as well. I've had them a couple times. But if u really are against open headphones maybe consider the dt770's.


 

 Do you have any experience with the DT880's? They're semi-open, is the leakage greatly reduced but still offers a better soundstage than the closed DT770's? Do they bridge the gap of both open/closed worlds best? thanks


----------



## lenroot77

majt said:


> Do you have any experience with the DT880's? They're semi-open, is the leakage greatly reduced but still offers a better soundstage than the closed DT770's? Do they bridge the gap of both open/closed worlds best? thanks




I have experience with the dt880's, sorry.


----------



## lenroot77

Received my Vali 2 today. Sounds great coming out of the G5 with my 400i's. 
Happy I picked it up!


----------



## Change is Good

How does the 400i sound straight out of the G5?


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> How does the 400i sound straight out of the G5?




It's sounds really good... The G5 has plenty of power for them. The vali 2 just warms them up and gives them a little extra juice. I'd say for just gaming the G5 is plenty for the 400i's. 

 I just wanted a bit more for listening to music. This is probably because last time I had the 400i's they were being driven by a Gustard h10.


----------



## Sam21

I sold my E5 and got the U7 echelon, same DAC/ADC chip but with DHT4 and the sonic radar....now I have two different virtual surround devices, one with SBX and the other with DH.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> It's sounds really good... The G5 has plenty of power for them. The vali 2 just warms them up and gives them a little extra juice. I'd say for just gaming the G5 is plenty for the 400i's.
> 
> I just wanted a bit more for listening to music. This is probably because last time I had the 400i's they were being driven by a Gustard h10.




Nice. I may look into the G5 in the later future after firmware updates and such.


----------



## shuto77

It would be great to hear a head-to-head comparison of the X7 to the G5. Then a comparison of the X7 to the G5 plus a decent $300-ish amp.


----------



## Change is Good

Honestly I wish Creative would just make something like the 5.8 for consoles. I find it very hard to compromise simplicity for they are currently offering.


----------



## shuto77

Out of curiosity, I plugged in my Xiaomi Piston iems into the ps4 controller and clipped it to my shirt, then sent the game audio to my X7.

Is there any reason why we're not just connecting a lapel mic to the ps4, and let the X7 do the mixing? 

Is anyone else doing this? It would obviate the need for the Creative BT dongle.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because doing that, you can't hear people talk back to you? Unless their voices are mixed in with game audio (which tends to sound far worse than them being separated).


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> It would be great to hear a head-to-head comparison of the X7 to the G5. Then a comparison of the X7 to the G5 plus a decent $300-ish amp.


 
  
 I wish so much you could plug an external amp into the X7 and maintain the headphone surround.  
  
 I'm shocked that this isn't an included feature.  It's not that the amp/dac in the X7 is bad.  I'm actually quite impressed.  Listening to music right now through it and it's perfectly clear and driving my rather power hungry 712's perfectly.  Been consistently impressed in that respect actually.
  
 Buuut it'd be nice to hook something like a Vali 2 up to it like the gentlemen above to be able to color things a bit when the mood strikes.


----------



## shuto77

Yes, I agree completely. 

I'm ready to upgrade to a decent amp, but I'd love to connect it to my X7 for gaming.


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> Yes, I agree completely.
> 
> I'm ready to upgrade to a decent amp, but I'd love to connect it to my X7 for gaming.


 

 I hear you.  What it's going to force me to do when I eventually go down that road is separate my music and my gaming set ups.  Which considering the idea the X7 was built around (all in one) and the price of the thing is a shame.
  
 I realize this point has been rehashed quite a bit and for most people is moot as the X7 is perfectly adequate on it's own.  It just seems like such a no-brainer feature and I'm curious why Creative never added it despite the many requests.


----------



## rudyae86

sam21 said:


> I sold my E5 and got the U7 echelon, same DAC/ADC chip but with DHT4 and the sonic radar....now I have two different virtual surround devices, one with SBX and the other with DH.


 
  
 I feel like using that is like cheating....like aimbots and stuff......
  
 also DHT4, I read some mix reviews about it....mainly that its inferior to dolby headphone. Cant remember my source since this was a while back...
  
 I mean, unless your deaf.....using it should be illegal lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sonic radar tells you which 'speaker' is firing? That is pretty cheat-y.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> That sonic radar tells you which 'speaker' is firing? That is pretty cheat-y.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, that is straight up like a permanent UAV for CoD. Very suspect.


----------



## halcyon

sam21 said:


> I sold my E5 and got the U7 echelon, same DAC/ADC chip but with DHT4 and the sonic radar....now I have two different virtual surround devices, one with SBX and the other with DH.


 
 Are you using the standard drivers for U7 Echelon and on which Windows version?

 Asus doesn't list support for DHTv4 for U7 Echelon on their web page, which is weird.

 Also, they don't list support for Windows 10 x64 for U7 echelon.

 Further, have you tried if you can output the DHTv4 version sound (headphone virtualization) via the digital output of U7 Echelon?
  
 Thanks for any clarifications.


----------



## Sam21

halcyon said:


> Are you using the standard drivers for U7 Echelon and on which Windows version?
> 
> Asus doesn't list support for DHTv4 for U7 Echelon on their web page, which is weird.
> 
> ...


 
 Beta driver for win7 64bit...
  
 I haven't tested it, but it should be able to output virtual surround through optical out.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

Hey guys,

Longtime Lurker, and decided to finally sign up since I could really use some help.

So I recently went out and got my self an Uber Schiit Stack to use with my Astro Mixamp for my gaming setup.
But.... I can't figure out the order in which I would hook these guys up.

I was thinking it would go something like this,

Console --Optical--> Modi 2 Uber --RCA to 3.5mm--> Mixamp -- 3.5mm to RCA--> Magni 2 Uber----> Headphones.

Or would it be more like 

Console --Optical--> Mixamp --???--> Modi 2 Uber --RCA--> Magni 2 Uber ----> Headphones.

In the second one I have no idea how I would connect the Mixamp to the Modi, since the Modi only has RCA Out and not RCA in. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! 

PS: Also how would I be able to get my phone to work with Schiit Stack as that's the primary source I use for my music?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Modi is a DAC, the Mixamp also has a DAC. You can't use both. You have to use one or the other. Also, I LITERALLY just updated the first post on how to connect your devices a day ago.

Please check out the last section before the thanks on the first post.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> The Modi is a DAC, the Mixamp also has a DAC. You can't use both. You have to use one or the other. Also, I LITERALLY just updated the first post on how to connect your devices a day ago.
> 
> Please check out the last section before the thanks on the first post.


 
  


Spoiler: Diagrams for DSS, Recon 3D and AX720 decoder




  

  

  

  

  

  


 Have some more of these. That should cover about 99% of use cases. I'm going to skip the Victor SHU-DH1 and Beyerdynamic Headzone because
 a) People who use them most probably know what they're doing since they picked such an exotic device for gaming
 b) These people are most probably crazy.
  
 Once Creative updates the firmware on the G5 to allow console surround I'll make some diagrams for it. 
  
  


Spoiler: Diagrams for answering phone calls while in-game


----------



## GrenZeiram

The Soundblaster X7 is on massdrop.com for $299 if they get 20 people to commit to ordering it.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo


Edit: Fixed X1 to X7, thank halcyon.


----------



## Yethal

grenzeiram said:


> The Soundblaster X1 is on massdrop.com for $299 if they get 20 people to commit to ordering it.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo


 
 "This drop includes Creative’s Bluetooth Audio BT-W2 transceiver at no additional charge." - Jackpot!


----------



## halcyon

grenzeiram said:


> The Soundblaster X1 is on massdrop.com for $299 if they get 20 people to commit to ordering it.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo


 

 It's X7. Now if it only it came with fixed drivers that would allow output of virtualized headphone sound via digital output... :-D


----------



## bavinck

I do understand the niche desire to output a surround digital signal to a more colourful amp. However, I must say I am really impressed at the neutrality and transparency of the x7 with my thx00. Sounds great. The SBX for movies is much more natural to my ears than dolby, I am very glad I bought this device.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

Ah that makes sense, Thanks. 
Man well it looks like I'm returning the stack and just paying the extra for the X7 or maybe the G5 when they update the drivers.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Rudyrae, are you ready for that thing I was hinting I'd heard rumored Creative was working on? Got your hands firmly gripping your armchair? Get ready to wish you had $1,750, lmao:
> 
> http://us.creative.com/soniccarrier/
> Dolby Atmos 15.2.4 soundbar. With multiple HDMI and optical inputs. Able to connect up to four subwoofers, wirelessly. Comes packed with free lawlz.
> ...


 
  
 Funny that you bring that up, since a friend of mine overseas needed help pre-ordering it due to their refusal to ship outside the States. His is the 60th unit sold.
  
 He even let me keep the bundled Sound Blaster Roar Pro speaker (CES period promo) as a gesture of thanks. Got it yesterday, still trying to decide if I should keep or sell it.
  
 We'll find out if that soundbar's worth it come September. I'm skeptical that it can deliver convincing surround compared to discrete surround speakers due to dependency on room acoustics, but there's only one way to find out...
  


mad lust envy said:


> I'm 100% certain all these VR devices initially coming out will be hella proprietary. The only thing that will not be will be the Microsoft Hololens since I'm sure Microsoft wants that thing to be everywhere, like schools and hospitals, so it's def gonna be XB1 and PC.
> 
> I do hope a company decides to make one that works for all types of systems. PS4, Phone, PC, etc.


 
  
 As nice as it would be, the fact that modern HMDs rely on lens distortion and have different, customized lenses is NOT going to help matters one bit.
  
 We've also got issues regarding the APIs used. If a game is coded to only use the Oculus Runtime, forget about using any other HMD unless it can fool the Runtime into thinking that's actually a Rift connected. The Vox Machinae demo from over a year ago is already unplayable on non-Rift hardware due to this, and it hasn't even had its Runtime updated beyond 0.4.0.
  
 On the SteamVR side of things, the Rift apparently works... suboptimally. Not a good sign for games that use it as the API of choice, presumably for Vive support.
  
 Then you've got Oculus Touch, the Vive controllers and expected use of room-scale tracking to take into account. There's gonna be tons of fragmentation, and supporting all of this will be more work for devs than what '90s PC devs got away with by simply enabling IMU support for the old VFX1/i-glasses! VPC/CyberMaxx HMDs.
  
 Oh well, I'm banking on the Rift. Here's hoping Elite Dangerous supports it properly again by the time mine shows up in April. If not that, I'll just reacquaint myself with DCS for a while.


----------



## jthom320

bavinck said:


> I do understand the niche desire to output a surround digital signal to a more colourful amp. However, I must say I am really impressed at the neutrality and transparency of the x7 with my thx00. Sounds great. The SBX for movies is much more natural to my ears than dolby, I am very glad I bought this device.


 
 Yes it does no question.  
  
 It's funny though I haven't tried SBX with movies yet.  I'm going to have to try that out tonight because I had pretty low expectations for using SBX with movies.  Any settings tips for using it that way.


----------



## halcyon

bavinck said:


> I do understand the niche desire to output a surround digital signal to a more colourful amp. However, I must say I am really impressed at the neutrality and transparency of the x7 with my thx00. Sounds great. The SBX for movies is much more natural to my ears than dolby, I am very glad I bought this device.


 
  
 Colourful?
  
 X7 isn't particularly strong amp (on the headphone output). It is non-zero headphone output (it will colour the sound on lower-impedance non-linear cans). Also it's damping factor as such leaves a lot to be desired.

 X7 is a colourful as a headphone amp, compared to a decent linear, near-zero impedance powerful headphone amp.
  
 Some of us have something quite a lot better and would like to make use of it. Current X7 drivers do not make this possible, but confine us to the X7 headphone output, which for a computer sound card is good, but leaves wanting.


----------



## razor13

Hi im new here but ive been following this thread for a while. 
Im interested in finding out how sbx is for movies. 
Im considering either the mixamp tr or sound blaster x g5. Gaming on ps4 but i want to see if they are any good for movies. 
My headset is Sennheiser Game One. I will buy a HD 650 ( for music and movies). 
Like i said i have been following this thread for some time so I am aware of the mixamp hiss and that the g5 doesnt do surround on ps4 ( it has some sort of simulated speaker surround )
I was about to buy the mixamp until i heard about the g5 , now im confused. Is the G5 really that much better than mixamp tr ?or is it the other way around ?


----------



## bavinck

jthom320 said:


> Yes it does no question.
> 
> It's funny though I haven't tried SBX with movies yet.  I'm going to have to try that out tonight because I had pretty low expectations for using SBX with movies.  Any settings tips for using it that way.




I just kept it 100% sbx and all others off. No need for bass boost on the thx00,though it does work well imo.


----------



## Yethal

razor13 said:


> Hi im new here but ive been following this thread for a while.
> Im interested in finding out how sbx is for movies.
> Im considering either the mixamp tr or sound blaster x g5. Gaming on ps4 but i want to see if they are any good for movies.
> My headset is Sennheiser Game One. I will buy a HD 650 ( for music and movies).
> ...


 
 G5 is supposed to receive console surround functionality in a firmware update so I''d holf off until that happens.


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> G5 is supposed to receive console surround functionality in a firmware update so I''d holf off until that happens.


 
 Really?
  
 Would that allow use with an external DAC/AMP?
  
 If that's the case I'd probably end up selling my X7.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> Really?
> 
> Would that allow use with an external DAC/AMP?
> 
> If that's the case I'd probably end up selling my X7.


 
 Somebody mentioned it over on the X7 Impressions thread. Appearently the info came from a Creative rep. Yes it would allow use of external dac/amps


----------



## HaunDeD

Hi, im new here. I have a Asus Strix Soar soundcard, is it good for the AKG K701? Best regards and amazing guide.


----------



## thenameDS

Boy am I glad I found this thread. So I was originally going to buy a pair of Astro A50 for the convenience of wireless, but after reading the reviews and thread I thought I better spend my money elsewhere.
  
 I play on Xbox one and I just bought a pair of AKG K702. I cannot seem to find a 2013 MixAmp for sale, so my options right now are MixAmp Pro 2015 or MixAmp Pro TR. Which one do I go for?
  
 Also the settings on my Xbox one are:
 Optical audio:
 Bitstream out 
 Bitstream format:
 Dolby Digital
  
 I presume those are correct since they match the diagrams recently posted on this thread. Thanks btw


----------



## jthom320

thenameds said:


> Boy am I glad I found this thread. So I was originally going to buy a pair of Astro A50 for the convenience of wireless, but after reading the reviews and thread I thought I better spend my money elsewhere.
> 
> I play on Xbox one and I just bought a pair of AKG K702. I cannot seem to find a 2013 MixAmp for sale, so my options right now are MixAmp Pro 2015 or MixAmp Pro TR. Which one do I go for?
> 
> ...


 

 Based on what other people told me about older mix amps the TR version has a much higher ceiling for getting the hiss.
  
 One thing I'd mention to is that AKG's are fairly power hungry.  Might look at something like Fidelio X2s.


----------



## Yethal

thenameds said:


> Boy am I glad I found this thread. So I was originally going to buy a pair of Astro A50 for the convenience of wireless, but after reading the reviews and thread I thought I better spend my money elsewhere.
> 
> I play on Xbox one and I just bought a pair of AKG K702. I cannot seem to find a 2013 MixAmp for sale, so my options right now are MixAmp Pro 2015 or MixAmp Pro TR. Which one do I go for?
> 
> ...


 
 The TR version would be much more convenient since it uses USB for chat (which You have to plug in anyway for power) so less cable clutter. Set it to Dolby Digital and You're set.
 Now that You've metioned it, I have to draw another diagram just for the TR version.


----------



## razor13

Can someone do a direct comparison between mixamp tr and sound blasterx g5 ?
Since they are both in the same price range , they compete with each other.


----------



## PacoTaco

razor13 said:


> Can someone do a direct comparison between mixamp tr and sound blasterx g5 ?
> Since they are both in the same price range , they compete with each other.


 
 I bought a SB G5, so I can give a good set of impressions when I get it, including how well it works with my Bimby + Valhalla 2.


----------



## thenameDS

jthom320 said:


> Based on what other people told me about older mix amps the TR version has a much higher ceiling for getting the hiss.
> 
> One thing I'd mention to is that AKG's are fairly power hungry.  Might look at something like Fidelio X2s.


 
 I did look at the X2 but they cost £80 more and based on the review here the K702 are better for competitive FPS, which is my main use.
  


yethal said:


> The TR version would be much more convenient since it uses USB for chat (which You have to plug in anyway for power) so less cable clutter. Set it to Dolby Digital and You're set.
> Now that You've metioned it, I have to draw another diagram just for the TR version.


 
 I just looked at the Astro forums and people seem to be having issues with the TR version, apparently the sound is muffled and low when Dolby is on. I have found a new 2013 MixAmp for sale at half the price of the TR, but doesn't come with any cables. Also I just seen the Blasterx G5 that was mentioned above.
  
 Currently my options:
 BlasterX G5 (£130) - Know nothing about it
 Astro TR (£110) - May have issues as reported on the Astro forum
 Astro 2015 (£100) - Known to hiss
 Astro 2013 (£60) - More recommended here. Comes with no cables though, so I will have to source those myself.
  
 EDIT: Above statement is wrong, 2013 hisses a lot apparently. 2011 MixAmp without the EQ button is the recommended one.


----------



## razor13

thenameDS, there seems to be a discount code for the G5 so you could get it for £40 less. It was mentioned in a few posts here.


----------



## Change is Good

Not going to lie. X7 with the USB dongle for $300 is tempting, enough to maybe put my stubbornness aside. Bad timing for me, though.


----------



## roguepp88

Anyone tried the ESSENCE HDACC with a PS4 before? The only down side to this would be the lack of a mic? Would think combination be good?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thenameds said:


> I did look at the X2 but they cost £80 more and based on the review here the K702 are better for competitive FPS, which is my main use.
> 
> I just looked at the Astro forums and people seem to be having issues with the TR version, apparently the sound is muffled and low when Dolby is on. I have found a new 2013 MixAmp for sale at half the price of the TR, but doesn't come with any cables. Also I just seen the Blasterx G5 that was mentioned above.
> 
> ...




I dunno where you heard the 2013 was recommended. That one is very hissy. It's the 2011 that is recommended. The one without the EQ preset button.

Please amend that statement, because no one that I know of has 'recommended' the 2013 Mixamp. Don't want people searching for devices based on false claims.

Problem is, you can't 'search for 2011 Mixamp, because that's a term we made. It's simply known as the Mixamp Pro, (on the first page), and it's the only one other than the very different looking first gen Mixamp that only has two buttons (Power, Dolby Headphone button).

It's also most recommended, because it has a full size optical input AND a Digital Coaxial (which you can use with a toslink to digital coaxial converter) to have two digital inputs connected without having to switch. The 2013 an onward only have one digital input, and some otherwise useless (for me) inputs like stream or daisy chaining.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno where you heard the 2013 was recommended. That one is very hissy. It's the 2011 that is recommended. The one without the EQ preset button.
> 
> Please amend that statement, because no one that I know of has 'recommended' the 2013 Mixamp. Don't want people searching for devices based on false claims.


 
  
 I recommend the 2013 Mixamp to those who have large snake collections.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. HISSSSSS


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Still waiting on these manufacturers to realize that we tend to have more than just ONE device that we wanna use with their gaming amp/dacs. One input is seriously just idiotic.

But since now we're starting to see devices with actual hdmi inputs... perhaps the trend will change. I'd bug one of these companies to send me their hdmi headset, but really not interested until they sell the devices separate from their headsets.

I'm still very interested in DTS-X.


----------



## Drizz1e

Well, the OP says this so it's rather confusing:
  
 "Despite the added hiss compared to the old Mixamp Pro, the 2013 edition is worthwhile unless you absolutely want the least amount of hiss, which then you'll wanna seek out the older 2011 or the even older 2010 edition."
  
 It should probably just say that the 2013 edition isn't recommended at all, to be more clear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That wouldn't be true. Not recommended at all implies I would suggest people not ever get it. There are various reasons why the 2013 is still viable. Like EQ programming if you're into that. It's not useless. If there wasn't any 2011's available online, I wouldn't be mad with a 2013. Yes, it's inferior sound-wise due to hiss, but so was the Mixamp 5.8 which is also hissy, and I recommend over the 2011 due to the wireless function being awesome.

All I'm implying is that no one here has recommended it MORE than the 2011. Just because I call it worthwhile doesn't mean I recommend it more. It simply means it's still WORTHWHILE to get if you have no Mixamp type device. Iadded "unless you want the least amount of hiss" part because that enough would be a dealbreaker to some, in which they'll definitely look for the older Mixamps, myself included (if the Mixamp 5.8 weren't a thing).

Any Mixamp device is better than none, even if it's hissy. The benefit of virtual surround supersedes anything else.


----------



## martin vegas

I thought I would upload this!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Drizz1e

mad lust envy said:


> snip


 
  
 Fair enough.


----------



## jthom320

The Mixamp TR that I had did not have any hiss until  you hit like 90% volume.
  
 Just for the record if someone is trying to decide in between them.  I don't know how that compares to the 2011 but based off what people have said about other models I think they must have made some improvements.


----------



## Yethal

Bypassed the one input problem by plugging the X7 into my bravia TV instead of the consoles. That way I switch between them by simply switching the input on my tv.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*To ALL owners of the X7, especially the X7 LE.*
  
*I can hear the PSU buzzing* (more higher freq) when the X7 is on. The buzz doesn't affect the HP output but it affects the lineout so using the Valhalla 2 with it I hear the exact same buzz type through the headphones. The Valhalla 2 itself is ok, tested with my Iphone and blu ray player. 
 If you want to help me confirm please disconnect everything, have a quiet room. Just turn on the X7 and listen to the PSU. 
  
 thanks


----------



## Absolute Zero

Hi guys.
  
 I'm interested in purchasing the Astro Gaming Mixamp pro for the dolby surround but apparently there's a new version which is even cheaper (searched on Amazon). Can anyone confirm that? Which one should I purchase then?


----------



## rambutan

Hey guys, need a little help here. My current setup is the following:
  
 - PS4
 - DSS1
 - V-Moda M100 + BoomPro
 - Xonar U3
  
 The V-Moda M100 + BoomPro is split out to a stereo plug and the microphone plug via its included adapter. The stereo plug goes into the DSS, and the mic plug goes into a USB soundcard on the PS4. (specifically the Xonar U3). What's happening is that if ONLY the stereo adapter is plugged into the DSS, everything sounds fine. However, as soon as I plug the mic in to the USB soundcard, I get a buzzing sound. I'm assuming it's because I now have 2 sources for ground? What's the best way to resolve this issue? Kinda regretting getting a BoomPro now, but a ModMic will end up almost costing me $100 Canadian after shipping and taxes. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## yding202

fegefeuer said:


> *To ALL owners of the X7, especially the X7 LE.*
> 
> *I can hear the PSU buzzing* (more higher freq) when the X7 is on. The buzz doesn't affect the HP output but it affects the lineout so using the Valhalla 2 with it I hear the exact same buzz type through the headphones. The Valhalla 2 itself is ok, tested with my Iphone and blu ray player.
> If you want to help me confirm please disconnect everything, have a quiet room. Just turn on the X7 and listen to the PSU.
> ...


 
  
 Can you try something?  Can you try moving the X7 and Valhalla to a different room in your house? Or do you have a different amp to hook up to the X7?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Don't have a different amp for now. Valhalla 2 does nothing when connected to the iphone and the Panasonic BluRay player. Works totally fine. Even works from the onboard Realtek without buzz though the onboard brings other noises (at max volume) but that's to be expected and happens at unrealistic levels. X7 buzz starts at 11, audibly. It's the same sound the PSU makes,
  
 X7 PSU buzzes whenever the X7 is on. Doesn't matter where in the house. All my gear runs through filtered sockets. Unfiltered ones (kitchen, bath) give the same buzzing. Buzzing "tonality" changes when muting the X7.
  
 Might be able to try another DAC tomorrow.


----------



## Yethal

Is the x7 plugged directly to the outlet or to a power strip? Also, do You have another device that uses the same or similar power supply?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Doesn't matter, it simply buzzes on everything, no matter if filtered power strip, direct outlet, plugged while everything else is unplugged.
  
 Unfortunately this is the only device which uses such a PSU. Contacted the support anyway but curious to see if others have that buzz as well.


----------



## Yethal

Okay, just checked this. I had to turn off all other devices but my PSU also buzzes. It's really quiet but definitely audible.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Do you have an external amp? Do you hear the buzz through the Line Out/when turning up the volume on the amp?


----------



## Yethal

I only have the Fiio E18 which does not buzz at all even on maximum volume.


----------



## thenameDS

mad lust envy said:


> I dunno where you heard the 2013 was recommended. That one is very hissy. It's the 2011 that is recommended. The one without the EQ preset button.
> 
> Please amend that statement, because no one that I know of has 'recommended' the 2013 Mixamp. Don't want people searching for devices based on false claims.


 
  
 Original post edited, my bad. But I did read other places recommending the 2013 over the more recent ones, which is probably where I got confused. 
 Although in the OP it doesn't really make it clear that it's very hissy..
  
 Anywho, I ordered a white TR MixAmp and also managed to get a 2011 MixAmp Pro. Hopefully everything is here by Friday so I can test them out and see what I prefer.


----------



## sharpz44

Hello I`m new here, but would like to add something, for those that are considering the Astro A40 TR then I can tell you not to bother, this unit has severe problems with the DD sound, it is like being in an empty tin can (not that I spend my time in one ..lol)... I have had the Tr and headset since release and firmware and EQ adjustments make no difference, these do not even come close to sound that I get from my steelseries H wireless. Astro have said they sound as intended and were tested by a Dolby  tech, I think they may have had there ears painted on when testing, so beware..... and consider the G5 over the TR.. Thanks


----------



## Yethal

sharpz44 said:


> Hello I`m new here, but would like to add something, for those that are considering the Astro A40 TR then I can tell you not to bother, this unit has severe problems with the DD sound, it is like being in an empty tin can (not that I spend my time in one ..lol)... I have had the Tr and headset since release and firmware and EQ adjustments make no difference, these do not even come close to sound that I get from my steelseries H wireless. Astro have said they sound as intended and were tested by a Dolby  tech, I think they may have had there ears painted on when testing, so beware..... and consider the G5 over the TR.. Thanks


 
 Not sure what You mean by "tin can". Does it sound like being in an empty room, with a lot of reverb? If yes, then this is pretty much how Dolby Headphone sounds.


----------



## sharpz44

yethal said:


> Not sure what You mean by "tin can". Does it sound like being in an empty room, with a lot of reverb? If yes, then this is pretty much how Dolby Headphone sounds.


 

 The sound has a muffled and high echo effect, In my years of listening to V Dolby surround on headsets I have never experience sound like this, the H wireless is Dolby and sounds so much better and refined, with the TR  feels like you hear double sound effects in one ear cup


----------



## Yethal

sharpz44 said:


> The sound has a muffled and high echo effect, In my years of listening to V Dolby surround on headsets I have never experience sound like this, the H wireless is Dolby and sounds so much better and refined, with the TR  feels like you hear double sound effects in one ear cup


 
 The TR version is supposed to come with it's own control panel so try fiddling with the settings.


----------



## Drizz1e

sharpz44 said:


> Hello I`m new here, but would like to add something, for those that are considering the Astro A40 TR then I can tell you not to bother, this unit has severe problems with the DD sound, it is like being in an empty tin can (not that I spend my time in one ..lol)... I have had the Tr and headset since release and firmware and EQ adjustments make no difference, these do not even come close to sound that I get from my steelseries H wireless. Astro have said they sound as intended and were tested by a Dolby  tech, I think they may have had there ears painted on when testing, so beware..... and consider the G5 over the TR.. Thanks


 
  
 This is my experience as well. I had to switch to an EQ someone posted on the Astro forums but it still sounded nothing like the Dolby Headphone demos you can find on youtube. My 2011 Mixamp should be coming today or tomorrow so I should be able to A/B them before I send the TR back.


----------



## Change is Good

So should just skip the X7 and wait until the G5, then? Doesn't look like its drop is going to reach the requirement for the $299 price, anyway.


----------



## sharpz44

drizz1e said:


> This is my experience as well. I had to switch to an EQ someone posted on the Astro forums but it still sounded nothing like the Dolby Headphone demos you can find on youtube. My 2011 Mixamp should be coming today or tomorrow so I should be able to A/B them before I send the TR back.



That would interesting to find out how the tr headset compares with the 2011 mix amp , I take it you used the beast mode EQ , I've tried adjusting EQs but still the same,others are reporting the same issue so it's not an isolated case,I'm going to try send them back.


----------



## Drizz1e

The big difference between the 2011 and the TR seems to be the latter's lack of reverb, which also the means the bass isn't as satisfying. I'm not big on audiophile terms but I would say it sounds very flat. The overall audio quality might be better than the 2011 version, but nothing sounds like it has any impact. It's just game sound being played with no force or impact. If you're a competitive FPS player or hate reverb this is probably good, but otherwise it just makes games very boring and less immersive. At this point it feels like you shouldn't even bother with the TR unless you fit that criteria.


----------



## freshfresh159

any headphones strictly for pinpointing enemies in black ops 3. I play on xbox one and wanted a recommendation for any headphones under $100.  i have the controller with a 3.5mm jack and i'd like to use them on my ps4 as well. i was looking into the turtle beach px24 but im not sure if the surround sound is good on those. thank you so much


----------



## Drizz1e

Most people here will probably recommend the AD700x's.
  
 http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-AD700X-Audiophile-Open-Air-Headphones/dp/B009S332TQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1385979471&sr=1-2&keywords=ad700


----------



## rambutan

rambutan said:


> Hey guys, need a little help here. My current setup is the following:
> 
> - PS4
> - DSS1
> ...


 
 I feel like this got lost at the bottom of the page. Has anyone here run into this issue and have advice on how to solve it? I'm about to order a ground loop isolator but not really sure if that's the way to go or a safe route.


----------



## Yethal

drizz1e said:


> The big difference between the 2011 and the TR seems to be the latter's lack of reverb, which also the means the bass isn't as satisfying. I'm not big on audiophile terms but I would say it sounds very flat. The overall audio quality might be better than the 2011 version, but nothing sounds like it has any impact. It's just game sound being played with no force or impact. If you're a competitive FPS player or hate reverb this is probably good, but otherwise it just makes games very boring and less immersive. At this point it feels like you shouldn't even bother with the TR unless you fit that criteria.



You won't get surround out of the xbox controller. Read the first post.


----------



## Drizz1e

Misquote? I was talking about the two Mixamps. If you're referring to the post after mine then yes, I did neglect to mention that he would also need a Mixamp/DSS/etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm starting to feel those who think the TR has no fullness or what not are on a very bass light preset. there shouldn't be a drastic difference between the sound if both are on the same exact flat signature.

Also, I dunno about the TR, but the 2011 uses Dolby headphone 2. Nowadays, Dolby Headphone doesn't seem to have Room 1/2/3 and instead uses some sort of slider, kinda like Creative does with SBX/THX Tru Studio. So while Dolby headphone 2 may be the equivalent of the slider being at maybe 65% (just guesstimating), The Mixamp TR may be on a lower setting.

I can't confirm any of this until I have heard/played with the TR myself.

Don't hold your breath as I have been more or less out of this hobby of trying out different devices/reviewing/etc.

You can expect a slightly different format of reviewing the Creative JAM in the future, and something else. Don't expect arbitrary numbers for scores, or ANY value. It will be reviews based on the actual review content. That's the way it's gonna be.


----------



## Change is Good

Astro should hit you up with a review unit.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Don't expect arbitrary numbers for scores, or ANY value. It will be reviews based on the actual review content. That's the way it's gonna be.


----------



## Change is Good

> Originally Posted by *Mad Lust Envy* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You can expect a slightly different format of reviewing the Creative JAM in the future, and something else. Don't expect arbitrary numbers for scores, or ANY value. It will be reviews based on the actual review content...
> 
> ...


 
  
 MLE singing to Feggy...
  


mad lust envy said:


> Spoiler: ... That's the way it's gonna be.


----------



## croulder

I am currently deciding between the HIFIMAN-HE400s/i, Fidelio X2 and K7XX. I want to use them for gaming as well as music. I have a pretty broad taste of music and i expect them to handle the different genres nicely. I listen mostly to top 40's, hiphop and 80's. I play a lot of CS:GO and see a good soundstage as important too. I have the Realtek 892 as onboard audio, should I upgrade, and to what?

 I am aware of the build issues with the X2's, but i am not in a hurry to buy, so if i decide on them I would wait them out


----------



## shuto77

croulder said:


> I am currently deciding between the HIFIMAN-HE400s/i, Fidelio X2 and K7XX. I want to use them for gaming as well as music. I have a pretty broad taste of music and i expect them to handle the different genres nicely. I listen mostly to top 40's, hiphop and 80's. I play a lot of CS:GO and see a good soundstage as important too. I have the Realtek 892 as onboard audio, should I upgrade, and to what?
> 
> I am aware of the build issues with the X2's, but i am not in a hurry to buy, so if i decide on them I would wait them out


 
  
 First, I owned the K7XX, then the Fidelio X2 and now the HIFIMAN HE-400i. I haven't heard the HE400s. 
  
 The K7XX is best for fps, with its huge soundstage and overall clarity, but less immersive if you like the immersion of the extra bass. The Fidelio X2 was really nice for gaming and most genres of music. I'm still evaluating the HE-400i. I picked that up because I wanted something good with my metal. I'm still evaluating it for gaming, so I don't have an answer for that. I will say that, out of the box, its soundstage is obviously smaller than the other two.
  
 For your needs, the X2 would probably be best. They're also the most efficient of the three, so your soundcard/amp choice is something to consider.
  
_Edit: I believe the QC issues on the X2 are overblown; I didn't have an issue with the three that I heard. I never had a chance to compare the new ones to the 2014 batches, however. That issue is very much an open question, and one that the X2 thread hasn't shed much light on to this point._
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Yethal

Fidelio X2 is on Massdrop here


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Fidelio X2 is on Massdrop here


 
  
 Lol, glad I just sold mine last night.


----------



## Templisk

Hi everyone, I searched through this thread but couldn't find that quite fit my use case and budget.  What would your recommendation be for the following use case:
  
 I stream games occasionally using a dynamic mic and want something that has very little if any sound leakage to avoid getting picked up by the mic.  I'm not sure if open headphones would meet this criteria as I don't listen to things too loud, or if the sound leakage can be eliminated using a noise gate or something similar (very new to streaming and audio equipment/methods).  I've also got my fiancee playing games in the same room as me about 6 feet behind me so she would rather not hear much if any sound leakage.
  
 I play a wide variety of games, such as Planetside, CounterStrike, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, World of Warcraft.  I'd like a decent sound stage to have a feeling of where my opponents are in a FPS but I'm not a competitive top tier player that demands the best.
  
 My musical tastes are ~80% rock, ~20% everything else but rap.
  
 I have a budget of ~$200 USD
  
 I tend to have gaming sessions of 3-10 hours or more just depending on the day so long term comfort is very important.
  
 My only experience with real headphones is with the Sennheiser PC-350 headset which I've had for several years.  My complaints with it are I really don't want a mic on my headset, the ear pads and headband are both terribly worn out.  I really like the circumaural design not having my ears touching anything, and when it was new it was incredibly comfortable.
  
 Based on the headphones at the beginning of the guide I'm drawn to the ATH-M50x, the DT 700 Pro, and the Q701.
  
 Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how sensitive your mic is, but I have never, ever heard of a very open headphone being loud enough for microphones to pick up. Open headphone get a bad stigma in terms of noise leak, and honestly, it's unwarranted. Perhaps SOME open planars may leak a helluva lot at high volume that it may be picked up by a super sensitive mic, but dynamic headphones, I don't think so. Probably something like the MA900 may leak a bit too much. But the others... doubtful.


----------



## Yethal

Swear to god, Beyerdynamic is going to sue Creative for that design


----------



## PacoTaco

yethal said:


> Swear to god, Beyerdynamic is going to sue Creative for that design


 
  
 Kingston has gotten away with the Hyper Cloud X, so maybe not. Lol
  
 Speaking of Beyerdynamic, I'm getting a T1 (gen1) this weekend. It's suppose to be one of the best, if not the best, headphones for a balance of competitive and immersive gaming. Truth be told, I haven't found a headphone that really surpassed it for an all-around use the last time I had it.  I've always found headphones that did one or the other better, but not both (with the exception of competitive play. Can't talk about the HD800, but the T1 does better than the AKG series at doing competitive stuff. Imagery is near perfect.)


----------



## Drizz1e

edit: Nevermind.


----------



## freshfresh159

Questions about Audio Technica AD700X
Okay so I am planning on buying these headphones for 100 dollars off amazon. Im going to be using it to play call of duty black ops 3 on my xbox and ps4. Will i be able to hear the enemy footsteps and where they are coming from or do I absolutely need to buy a mix amp to get the full footstep package. I don't have a lot of money so if do need a mix amp to hear the damn footsteps can someone recommend a cheap amp for surround sound. And also what mic can i use.


----------



## Yethal

freshfresh159 said:


> Questions about Audio Technica AD700X
> Okay so I am planning on buying these headphones for 100 dollars off amazon. Im going to be using it to play call of duty black ops 3 on my xbox and ps4. Will i be able to hear the enemy footsteps and where they are coming from or do I absolutely need to buy a mix amp to get the full footstep package. I don't have a lot of money so if do need a mix amp to hear the damn footsteps can someone recommend a cheap amp for surround sound. And also what mic can i use.


 
 The first post of this thread contains all of the information that You need.


----------



## razor13

Is there a diagram for how to connect G5 to ps4 to headset and maybe magni ?
  
 I dont have the G5 yet but I think I will buy it very soon.
 From what ive read on head fi I'm liking the g5 over the mixamps.


----------



## lenroot77

razor13 said:


> Is there a diagram for how to connect G5 to ps4 to headset and maybe magni ?
> 
> I dont have the G5 yet but I think I will buy it very soon.
> From what ive read on head fi I'm liking the g5 over the mixamps.




Just plug the G5 into the ps4 via usb

. Then take a 3.5mm to rca from the line out of the G5 to the magni.


----------



## Yethal

razor13 said:


> Is there a diagram for how to connect G5 to ps4 to headset and maybe magni ?
> 
> I dont have the G5 yet but I think I will buy it very soon.
> From what ive read on head fi I'm liking the g5 over the mixamps.


 
 I'll make one as soon as Creative adds console surround to the G5.
  
 As for now connection is very similar to the mixamp connection. Optical + USB from PS4 to G5. 3.5mm to RCA cable from the line out port to the Magni.


----------



## razor13

lenroot77 said:


> Just plug the G5 into the ps4 via usb
> 
> . Then take a 3.5mm to rca from the line out of the G5 to the magni.


 

 and plug the headset in the magni ?
  Im guessing the mic wont work when the headset is connected to the magni.
  
 Is there a way I can chat and use the magni ? or do i have to cut the magni from the equation to be able to chat ?
 Headset is game one.


----------



## Yethal

razor13 said:


> and plug the headset in the magni ?
> Im guessing the mic wont work when the headset is connected to the magni.
> 
> Is there a way I can chat and use the magni ? or do i have to cut the magni from the equation to be able to chat ?
> Headset is game one.


 
 Plug the headphones jack into the Mani and the microphone jack into the G5


----------



## razor13

Thanks


----------



## Yethal

I got an idea for some additional content for this thread. We have the comparison between virtual surround algorithms, between the dac/amp sections of the devices themselves and the connectivity options, but there is one comparison no one has ever done in this thread. Mic input quality comparison. We would record our speech using the mic input on the devices (preferably in a quiet environment) so people can hear for themselves what different devices sound like. We could also do a micropone to microphone comparison later on. I have my X7, 2013 Mixamp in a drawer, and I could borrow the Recon 3D I gave away for a few hours. However I only have the ModMic and a cheapo 5$ standing microphone I use as a spare. Anybody with a BoomPro and/or some lapel mic would like to chip-in?


----------



## shuto77

Yes!
  
 I just got a nice ($15) lapel mic connected to the PS4 controller, and everyone said I sounded good.
  
 I'll be happy to record some voice samples and take it from there. 

 We should also have people record usb mics straight to the ps4. 
  
 Good thinking!


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Yes!
> 
> I just got a nice ($15) lapel mic connected to the PS4 controller, and everyone said I sounded good.
> 
> ...


 
 Unfortunately I have no idea how to capture digital audio straight from the ADC converter built into Dual Shock 4. But it can be easily recorded using the X7. Recording it with the X7 would make it easier to compare the quality between the lapel mic, my ModMic and Mad's BoomPro (if he decides to help out) since we would all be using the same mic input.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> I'll make one as soon as Creative adds console surround to the G5.
> 
> As for now connection is very similar to the mixamp connection. Optical + USB from PS4 to G5. 3.5mm to RCA cable from the line out port to the Magni.




Is there an advantage to using the optical from ps5 to G5? Or at this point since we are only getting stereo sound the usb should sound the same? 

I'm currently just using the usb and the stereo output sounds great.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Is there an advantage to using the optical from ps5 to G5? Or at this point since we are only getting stereo sound the usb should sound the same?
> 
> I'm currently just using the usb and the stereo output sounds great.


 
 SQ-wise not. But sending game audio and chat audio over different inputs allows the user to balance them using the G5 hardware rather than fiddling with PS4 devices menu.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> SQ-wise not. But sending game audio and chat audio over different inputs allows the user to balance them using the G5 hardware rather than fiddling with PS4 devices menu.




Ok that makes sense... I pretty much only use chat while playing destiny which has in game balancing so I probably hadn't thought of the need for that. 

Interestingly enough the only way to balance inputs currently would be thru the PC software? Maybe they will come out with an app that will allow us to plug our phones into the G5 and make changes that way.


----------



## Yethal

There is an iOS/Android app for the some of the Creative products so maybe the G5 will receive one too.


----------



## razor13

lenroot77 said:


> Ok that makes sense... I pretty much only use chat while playing destiny which has in game balancing so I probably hadn't thought of the need for that.
> 
> Interestingly enough the only way to balance inputs currently would be thru the PC software? Maybe they will come out with an app that will allow us to plug our phones into the G5 and make changes that way.




An app to change settings in the G5. 
That would be fantastic.


----------



## freshfresh159

Where? i can't find it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only thing I personally care about mic quality is if it works and if it doesn't sound like garbled crap. Lol.


----------



## Drizz1e

Has anyone tried gaming with the Fostex TH-X00?


----------



## Change is Good

Not the ideal choice for gaming (I prefer neutral open headphones), but definitely one of the better, clean sounding, u-shaped closed headphones out there.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> The only thing I personally care about mic quality is if it works and if it doesn't sound like garbled crap. Lol.



Yeah, but You play alone. And there are people that do care about mic quality. I don't think we'll be able to cover every possible device but it would be nice to give people an idea how a microphone sounds since this is near-zero effort.


----------



## inseconds99

drizz1e said:


> Has anyone tried gaming with the Fostex TH-X00?



I am, Have my modmic attached to it and everything. Bass is just elevated enough for immersion, mids are just clear enough for sound queues and treble is tame enough to wear all day without fatigue. I personally love them.

I would say they're similar to what MLE is describing in his d7000 review on the first page. Read that and you'll get a similar experience with the th-x00's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I don't ALWAYS play alone. I played Destiny for months with the boys here. My cheap ass DX mic and/BoomPro served me well.


----------



## Drizz1e

change is good said:


> Not the ideal choice for gaming (I prefer neutral open headphones), but definitely one of the better, clean sounding, u-shaped closed headphones out there.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm sure open headphones are better for their larger soundstage, but I've heard that the TH-X00 is no slouch in that regard. From what I've read it seems like an overall better version of the X2s in a lot of ways, barring soundstage. If that's the case then I wouldn't mind having something like that for times when I don't necessarily need a large one but want more powerful bass (movies, non-open world games).


inseconds99 said:


> I am, Have my modmic attached to it and everything. Bass is just elevated enough for immersion, mids are just clear enough for sound queues and treble is tame enough to wear all day without fatigue. I personally love them.
> 
> I would say they're similar to what MLE is describing in his d7000 review on the first page. Read that and you'll get a similar experience with the th-x00's.


 
  
 I had been looking at the D7000 review and read that the TH-X00 was sort of a spiritual successor to that Denon line. That's what got me interested in them. If they're similar to that then I'm sure I'll love them. I'll probably have to get the cable shortened at some point and possibly terminated in a 3.5mm, though. That's really the only issue I have with it. I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to get the Fostex but it's really hard to resist urge, lol. I just got my X2s a week ago so I'll probably wait for the third drop, assuming there is one (hopefully).


----------



## mikaveli06

OK, getting ps4 or Xbox soon and getting things inline. I have Yamaha receiver that does surround processing. Plan on Philips X2 and boompro mic. So do I need adapter to run mic into controller and then headphones into receiver? Or is there a Bluetooth mic I can use instead of boompro


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you connect anything to the PS4 controller, it will automatically take all microphone/chat duties, so unless your headphones are connected to the controller as well, you won't be able to hear the chat, unless it's enabled in game, which tends to sound much worse than the discrete chat channel. You definite want some non PS4 controller chat device if you intend on hooking up your headphones to a different device like a receiver.


----------



## Change is Good

I agree. I'd say just get a desk microphone or the PS4 camera for separate chat input.


----------



## Yethal

Actually it is possible route only microphone through the controller.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yethal said:


> Actually it is possible route only microphone through the controller.


 
  
 yep. I do this everytime.


----------



## bavinck

fegefeuer said:


> yep. I do this everytime.




Would chat go into the speakers in that case? Is it possible to use x7 and a Mic into controller and hear the chat through the x7?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're missing my point, guys. Yes, you can just use a splitter to route the mic to the controller. What I'm implying is that you CAN'T hear voice chat through headphones if you do that, which defeats the purpose of chatting if you can't hear people talk back to you. They can hear you, you can't hear them. That is, unless (as I mentioned before), you set chat to go through game audio, which is terrible. You don't wanna do that unless you wanna deal with hearing chat through the 'virtual' center speaker when using headphones in virtual surround.

As we all know by know, that means chat is being processed into the virtual surround algorithm, meaning it has an added reverb, making it harder to hear clearly.

Long story short: 

1. Chat through a virtual surround game audio is gonna sound like piss. You want chat to be on a discrete/private channel SEPARATE from game audio (console PS4 use)
2. Look for a usb chat/mic that works for PS4 instead of using the controller input.
3. If you have no choice, just plug a headset to the controller at the expense of virtual surround, etc. I do this with my KSC35+ clip on mic whenever I'm playing a game that I don't mind in stereo and need to chat with friends.
4. Once the PS4 controller senses anything plugged into it, it automatically will takeover ALL chat duties. You have the option of JUST chat duties, or all audio, in which then digital output is muted so you can't get game audio to other audio sources.

Obviously things will be set up differently on PC, which is obviously not what I'm talking about here.


----------



## Yethal

The USB dongle from Creative works like a charm and is pretty painless. Just saying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but it's painful on my wallet.

To add, anyone who thinks of routing mic/chat to the controller, there are plenty of games that won't even allow you to adjust from game chat and normal game audio, so if you wanna lower the game audio to hear game chat, you're out of luck. That's anothewr reason why chat through the controller sucks IF your headphones aren't also connected to the controller.


----------



## smokozuna

3. If you have no choice, just plug a headset to the controller at the expense of virtual surround, etc. I do this with my KSC35+ clip on mic whenever I'm playing a game that I don't mind in stereo and need to chat with friends.
  
 you do this by plugging a splitter into the controller correct?


----------



## bavinck

yethal said:


> The USB dongle from Creative works like a charm and is pretty painless. Just saying.


 
 Does the x7 handle chat/game mix and allow you to adjust it using the dongle?


----------



## mikaveli06

OK, so if I plug my headphones into my receiver for virtual sound, can I then use a USB mic for chat?? Is this the better setup than using controller for mic


PS...someone mentioned a Creative dongle? What is this and how does it work (ps4, Philips x2, av receiver that does virtual surround)


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Does the x7 handle chat/game mix and allow you to adjust it using the dongle?


 
 No, the dongle just acts as a chat device that is paired with the X7 but yes, You can adjust the balance between game and voice using the X7 Control Panel
  


mikaveli06 said:


> OK, so if I plug my headphones into my receiver for virtual sound, can I then use a USB mic for chat?? Is this the better setup than using controller for mic
> 
> 
> PS...someone mentioned a Creative dongle? What is this and how does it work (ps4, Philips x2, av receiver that does virtual surround)


 
 The Creative BT-W2 (the dongle) is a Bluetooth dongle that registers as a USB headset and allows using any Bluetooth headset with the PS4. We use it to add painless chat functionality to Sound Blaster X7 (see the connection diagram on the first page).


----------



## mikaveli06

just to clarify....usb mic into ps4 for chat, x2 into receiver for dolby processing??
  
 Does this same setup work on xbox one {i understand to plug into controller u need adapter, but we are trying to avoid that}
  
 Thanks for patience with me


----------



## rambutan

rambutan said:


> Hey guys, need a little help here. My current setup is the following:
> 
> - PS4
> - DSS1
> ...


 
  
 Just an update on this. I bought a ground loop isolator and it didn't work as well as I'd like it to. Plugging the isolator into the microphone jack portion of the boompro results in the mic not being picked up at all. Putting it on the audio jack portion of the boompro results in a pretty big dB loss and needs me to crank up the DSS way up. The buzz is gone with both ways. Either way, not really happy with the solution so I'm returning it to Amazon. It was this: http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001EAQTRI/
  
 I guess my only solution at this point is to somehow find a jack that prevents the ground on the mic jack from touching. Or get a mixamp that can do surround sound + chat input. Or get a ModMic. Unfortunately in Canada, 3 of these solutions are pretty expensive or hard to find used.


----------



## NeedMoDro

Amazing guide! Thank you so much. Been searching online for weeks as to what to replace my headset with and this is a huge help.
  
 I have a question: I liked the V-Moda M100s when I first came across them on a review. And I can't help but notice they are not in here. I am assuming this is intentional but was hoping someone could explain why. I am aware they are more for bassheads and have read mixed reviews on the soundstage and positioning, was hoping for info on them in this guide as it seems the best source for reviews. I most like the dual jacks and the features that offers, as well as the quality construction and the boompro.
  
 Thanks!!
  
  
  
 TL;DR
 I've used PC350s and PC360s. And thanks to some cats(and me not knowing they could be sent in for repair, or handy enough to replace the wires myself) I actually have 2 sets of each!! The other day the mic on my latest pair of 360s quit working so I figured it's time to upgrade.
  
 I am still researching, and if need be I am gonna make posts asking for advise, but if anyone reading this wants to chime in now...I'm not an audiophile or big into music. I want something a little more fun than my pc360s without sacrificing sound stage and positioning TOO much.
  
 Something with punchy bass, a good size soundstage, andh decent positioning and would be ideal. Prioritzed in that order. At first I was looking at wireless because, I really want to detangle and I think repeatedly rolling over the wire with my chair is what killed my mic, lol. I have since decided that it's not a requirement but would be nice depending on the other sacrifices. Do not mind going headphone and mic vs headset either. Thanks again!!


----------



## Wyversnake

Hi guys I'm coming from France ! I'm not an expert in audio, but I wanted to know which headset is the best for gaming like rainbow six or battlefield games ? I got a budget around 300-400 for the headset and do I need to buy a mixamp ? Like a Schiit Stack ? Thanks for the reply


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

needmodro said:


> Amazing guide! Thank you so much. Been searching online for weeks as to what to replace my headset with and this is a huge help.
> 
> I have a question: I liked the V-Moda M100s when I first came across them on a review. And I can't help but notice they are not in here. I am assuming this is intentional but was hoping someone could explain why. I am aware they are more for bassheads and have read mixed reviews on the soundstage and positioning, was hoping for info on them in this guide as it seems the best source for reviews. I most like the dual jacks and the features that offers, as well as the quality construction and the boompro.
> 
> ...




Simple: because most of my reviews are stuff I pay out of my own pocket. I make very little money in life and can't afford to just do reviews here and there for the sheer hell of it. This is why lately it's been a review like every 6 months, and you can expect that to slow down even more or stop completely at some point.

As for the M100, I liked it a lot when I demoed it butaAs I have mentioned many, many times, I'm generally not a fan of headphones with non-cloth/velour pads. I do not like any form of leather whether fake or real. It is too hot for my ears, and some even irritate my skin. So anyone asking for headphones, if they use leather pads, you can make a safe bet in them probably not getting reviewed unless I'm feeling generous. I currently own 5 headphones... none with that type of pad (well, HE-400 does, but I'm using alternate pads).

I'm also out of love with reviewing, which will further make future reviews more rare.

I can say I will have 1 or 2 reviews coming up. I should've been started on one, but my heart hasn't been into it. The other is a definite.


----------



## Change is Good

I keep telling you to have others do reviews collectively for the guide (like the X7 review). This thread became too big for you to keep updating on your own budget years ago.

Or, these damn companies need to start sending you free review units for all the mulah you've made them with this guide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Things is, I wouldn't do reviews even for free. It's become a chore, and I don't owe anyone anything. Well, save for Creative because I've had their Jam for months.

As for other people's reviews, I'm iffy about that because it's my guide, and I don't trust people to not skew scores towards 8s and 9s, because that's what humanity is like now. Everything under an 8 sucks. And people will always review things they like with rose-tinted glasses. I have tried my best to not be that way, which is why things I like still ended up with 6s and 7s here and there. 

In any case, love it or not, I'm doing away with scores for future stuff, so people better prepare to actually read a review to see if a headphone is for them or not, instead of using a cheat sheet and dismissing stuff that would've been perfect for them, regardless of my own personal scores. I'm doing away with "this is the best of this" -type of reviewing, because that helps no one and all that does is make everything else seem lesser. Personal opinion always changes as new things come and go, so reviews will focus even stronger on JUST the headphone in hand. Comparisons, if any, will be to find something similar and what to expect in differences between them.

Take it or leave it.


----------



## NeedMoDro

mad lust envy said:


> Simple: because most of my reviews are stuff I pay out of my own pocket. I make very little money in life and can't afford to just do reviews here and there for the sheer hell of it. This is why lately it's been a review like every 6 months, and you can expect that to slow down even more or stop completely at some point.
> 
> As for the M100, I liked it a lot when I demoed it butaAs I have mentioned many, many times, I'm generally not a fan of headphones with non-cloth/velour pads. I do not like any form of leather whether fake or real. It is too hot for my ears, and some even irritate my skin. So anyone asking for headphones, if they use leather pads, you can make a safe bet in them probably not getting reviewed unless I'm feeling generous. I currently own 5 headphones... none with that type of pad (well, HE-400 does, but I'm using alternate pads).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hey, thanks for the response!
  
 Sorry if it seemed like I was implying, well I'm not sure exactly, but it seems like my wording put you on the defensive. I didn't mean to sound as if I expect you to review every single headphone/set that can be used for gaming as a fulltime job. I was just curious and thought maybe you left it out because it was a total nightmare or something.
  
 Also, decided to ask in-case you or anyone else has any input on their functionality or even what might be a good choice for me. Which thank you btw. I also prefer a cloth type, because my skin would sweat a lot when I used the PC350s.
  
 PS> I used live in Orlando as well, grew up in swfla.


----------



## Drizz1e

needmodro said:


> snip


 
  
 I haven't heard the M100s, but you're definitely going to take a hit in soundstage as they're closed. If you want headphones for gaming with good bass then the Fidelio X2s would be a very good choice as they're known to have a great soundstage and surprisingly good bass for open cans. They also have a detachable cable and support the Boompro mic. The only thing is that there have been QC issues with the later models (glued pads, supposedly different sounding) so I'd hold off until it blows over. However, if you don't feel like waiting you could look for some lightly used ones. I got mine from an eBay seller who had barely touched them and confirmed that it was from one of the early batches. From what I can tell there isn't another open headphone with its kind of signature outside of the higher-end planars. This is all moot if you absolutely require isolation, though.


----------



## Change is Good

Lenroot, yethal, that's me that sent you guys a friend request on PSN.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> There is an iOS/Android app for the some of the Creative products so maybe the G5 will receive one too.



Well... The problem with that is I think the G5 dropped Bluetooth... right?
I still don't have one, but I'm writing a headphone review ATM and will try to get back at doing gear next.


----------



## Change is Good

The G5's line out into something like Fiio's new K5 would probably be a killer entry level setup under $250. We finally have (what seems to be) a quality sounding DSP device that can also be used as a quality DAC as well.

*Edit*: Assuming they add console surround to the G5, of course

Damn sure better than what I first started with (Recon3D, E9), at a similar price.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The G5 really appreciates (PSUed) amping. HD 650 from the X7 is noticably better than from the G5. Better dynamics, punch, detail.


----------



## mukumi

Hello,
 Wanted to do a small feedback on the Turtle Beach i60 that I purchased on a flash sale.
 This might be the worst purchase I ever made. The connection uses the wifi band which is quite bad in a city due to the number of wifi networks around.
 There is a constant hiss in the speakers so it's never quiet. The surround mode is not really good.
 I also tried the "surround mode" of the Xonar U3 and didn't like it and I really prefer the one of the DSS2 (all on a COP).


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Lenroot, yethal, that's me that sent you guys a friend request on PSN.


 
 Love to play with You man sometime, but the timezone difference and lag might be painful to overcome.


----------



## AxelCloris

It's been more than a year since @chicolom last visited us in this thread. I wonder what he's doing now. I like to imagine that he went off to become a pirate in the Pacific Northwest and now sails his might vessel over the Rocky Mountains looking for booty.


----------



## Evshrug

I think he got into a new hobby after a short stop in PC building? I miss his wit too.


----------



## Sam21

Evshrug, out of CAL! and CAL2!, which one do you think performs better ? I already have a CAL2, is it worth it to buy the CAL ! as well ?


----------



## Evshrug

Hmm, I also have a CAL2, but not the CAL. The CAL2 is "fun" targeted and I suppose pretty good for people with that taste, but I haven't listened to them in awhile... purely because it takes a lot for me to break from my usual open, over ear preference.


----------



## chicolom

axelcloris said:


> It's been more than a year since @chicolom last visited us in this thread. I wonder what he's doing now. I like to imagine that he went off to become a pirate in the Pacific Northwest and now sails his might vessel over the Rocky Mountains looking for booty.


 
  





  
 I'm still around. 
  
 Still rocking the Fidelio X2s as my main headphones. 
  
 My only new audio purchases have been $5 VE Monk earbuds and a $15 Xiaomi Piston 3 IEM. 
  
  
 .......Anything new I should know about??


----------



## Change is Good

Ooooooooh snap! *high five*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

chicolom said:


> I'm still around.
> 
> Still rocking the Fidelio X2s as my main headphones.
> 
> ...




CHICOLOM?





So I bought Rise of the Tomb Raider on PC.... it runs like a damn potato. Never in my entire PC gaming life have I ever had a game cripple the frag out of my Alienware. It's time to upgrade. >__<

I'd have to put it in low settings to consistently stay above 30. That or higher setting with lower res. This is too much. 60fps is out of the question unless I do like 800x600 gaming, What.

I hear this game can even send the 980TI under 60fps with the wrong options. That's a hell of a feat. Not even the newest, most monster GPU can eat this game alive in full Ultra.

680m, you served me well.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> CHICOLOM?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Digital foundry had a good break down on it. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-pc-face-off


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I saw. I expected it to be rough on mine, since the 2013 one never stayed at 60 (hovered between (40-60 almost always, with hair effects off, 20-ish with hair tech), but I at LEAST hoped for a consistent 30+ with cherry picked settings. I'm more at 25-35. That dip below 30 is hurtful.

I may give up this game until I get a new setup. My laptop may also be a factor since it's been messing up a lot lately. sometimes it takes me 20 minutes for it to notr freeze and restart, and yesterday I got a gpu error. 3 years of abuse and being on like 15 hours a day probably fried the mobo or something.


----------



## Sam21

*******ed dust bunnies kill laptops...


----------



## Fegefeuer

I had vsync off the whole time when instead I wanted to use adaptive vsync and this game ran like mad in a lot of scenes and caused a huge power draw and high temps, making the driver reset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I force vsync on my Nvidia control panel which does much better in input lag vs vsync settings in game. That and using DXTory to cap the fps at 30, since it's not like this game will go much higher.

No way I'll ever play with screen tearing. If/when I upgrade, if I get a laptop, it definitely will have a built in gsync monitor.


----------



## ajlong12

Hey guys,

I recently won a pair of Sennheiser HD 800's off eBay, they will be replacing my trusty AKG Q701's on my gaming PC. I love the wide soundstage of the Q's for positional audio in competitive FPS games. I know the HD800's are top end cans, but can I expect them to have an equal or better purpose for gaming than the Q? I am using a Titanium HD for CMSS surround, and a Objective 2 amp. thanks! Great forum and a great thread, I just didn't see the HD 800 listed in the OP and haven't read the entire thread yet... So many pages!


----------



## Fegefeuer

they are better in everything, more cohorent soundstage, giving you much more depth/height, enormous details, ul distortion letting you listen at lower volumes or allowing you to crank it higher without them falling apart, but you should rather use a Vali2/Valhalla 2/BH Crack/SB instead of the O2. The O2 never gave me the dynamics of the former ones, together with the HD800 but it was more about the harshness that was a turnoff. 
  
 Also good to know that since CMSS-3D does have a "special"  treble charakter it can be a bit worrisome in games with mediocre to bad recording quality. 
  
 Other than that you made a great choice and if you prefer competitive games CMSS-3D still gives the best positioning out of all VSTs.


----------



## ChookJones1987

What the HD800 do well for gaming is cohesiveness where as the AKG's can sound very left to right but a poor centre so you don't quite get the natural feeling of space. I think the actual width of the HD800 is similar to a Q701 but more depth to equal the width. 
  
 I actually really like the current LCD-2F(Improved version late 2015) It is very cohesive and images very good the sense of space with dolby headphone or similar isn't the largest but I'd say it's quite natural.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, would you be interested in my 'PETEREK' boompro adapter for your he400? I no longer need it, thought I'd ask you before I list it.

Edit: nm, edit erased.


----------



## ajlong12

fegefeuer said:


> they are better in everything, more cohorent soundstage, giving you much more depth/height, enormous details, ul distortion letting you listen at lower volumes or allowing you to crank it higher without them falling apart, but you should rather use a Vali2/Valhalla 2/BH Crack/SB instead of the O2. The O2 never gave me the dynamics of the former ones, together with the HD800 but it was more about the harshness that was a turnoff.
> 
> Also good to know that since CMSS-3D does have a "special"  treble charakter it can be a bit worrisome in games with mediocre to bad recording quality.
> 
> Other than that you made a great choice and if you prefer competitive games CMSS-3D still gives the best positioning out of all VSTs.


 
  


chookjones1987 said:


> What the HD800 do well for gaming is cohesiveness where as the AKG's can sound very left to right but a poor centre so you don't quite get the natural feeling of space. I think the actual width of the HD800 is similar to a Q701 but more depth to equal the width.
> 
> I actually really like the current LCD-2F(Improved version late 2015) It is very cohesive and images very good the sense of space with dolby headphone or similar isn't the largest but I'd say it's quite natural.


 
  
 Thanks fellas! I went ahead and ordered a Valhalla 2 amp to go with the HD800's. Looking forward to gaming audio bliss!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice. Tell us how you like the X-Fi THD -> Line Out - >Valhalla 2 combination


----------



## Change is Good

PETEREK does it, again!


----------



## chicolom

Any new surround sound DSPs come out?
  
 Are the new Creative devices (X7, G5, etc) still rocking the old* SBX Pro*?  I see them mentioning "7.1" surround now, but I imagine that's a pretty meh upgrade since surround DSPs are already pretty smooth panning and more like "50.1"


----------



## Yethal

According to Evshrug, Smyth Research wants to release cheaper, upgraded version of the Realizer. Tritton has an HDMI-based surround headset (unfortunately it's wireless but I think the receiver inside the headset can be modded for standalone operation). Aside from that, nothing new.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, TB released the DTS Headphone X capable headphone setups.


----------



## Yethal

Which, are wireless and use Dolby Digital as input but it's still a step in the right direction.


----------



## mikaveli06

So does turtle beach elite 800s us surround sound over Bluetooth? How do they sound?


----------



## jincuteguy

grenzeiram said:


> The Soundblaster X7 is on massdrop.com for $299 if they get 20 people to commit to ordering it.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo
> 
> ...


 
  
 $299 is what I got from Amazon, why are they selling on Massdrop for $299? There's no discount or anything at all.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Well, TB released the DTS Headphone X capable headphone setups.


 
 Logitech released one as well with DST Headphone X and DH.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Logitech released one as well with DST Headphone X and DH.



Which don't work because logitech ****ed up the drivers. These geadsets only work in stereo.


----------



## mikaveli06

Sorry for so many questions recently, but just trying to get stuff lined up. I rarely use chat but want the option. I'm going ps4 to Yamaha receiver and x2 headphones

1. Can I use USB mic or even just PS camera as mic for chat while using headphones into receiver

2. Possibly get boom pro mic and creative g5 (which doesn't do Dolby headphone, but may get updated)

3. Does elite 800s do surround over Bluetooth?


----------



## Evshrug

1. I use a separate USB mic with my PS4 every day. Then, I hear other people talk back to me over optical (your Yamaha or my X7). Works perfect, PS Camera should work in the same way though in practice I should just let you know the distance between you and the mic is easily audible. That's not necessarily a problem... just an FYI.

2. Yeah you could get the G5, then you wouldn't need the Yamaha.

3. The TB Elite 800 use a closed system, they paid Sony and Microsoft ($35 royalty each time a headset is sold) so that the wireless would work with the console. It's similar to Bluetooth, but not really, and I don't think you could wirelessly connect to your phone or something. The in-depth reviews I've read of the Elite 800 seem to indicate the obvious lack of cost allocation towards sound quality... Aka know that you're really paying for the wireless convenience but even a pair of $13 KOSS clip-ons will sound better to most people.


----------



## mikaveli06

evshrug said:


> 1. I use a separate USB mic with my PS4 every day. Then, I hear other people talk back to me over optical (your Yamaha or my X7). Works perfect, PS Camera should work in the same way though in practice I should just let you know the distance between you and the mic is easily audible. That's not necessarily a problem... just an FYI.
> 
> 2. Yeah you could get the G5, then you wouldn't need the Yamaha.
> 
> 3. The TB Elite 800 use a closed system, they paid Sony and Microsoft ($35 royalty each time a headset is sold) so that the wireless would work with the console. It's similar to Bluetooth, but not really, and I don't think you could wirelessly connect to your phone or something. The in-depth reviews I've read of the Elite 800 seem to indicate the obvious lack of cost allocation towards sound quality... Aka know that you're really paying for the wireless convenience but even a pair of $13 KOSS clip-ons will sound better to most people.


thank you, i did read the elite 800s do pair with phone etc, however this was my last option. I rarely chat so USB mic option is perfect for me then. I may pick up g5 and boom pro IF they patch in console surround. Thanks again my friend.

PS.. Anyone have experience with oppo pm3 for gaming/movies


----------



## S4tisF4ction

Hello.
  
 Currently I have Asus Xonar DGX card and O2 amp for pc gaming. I'm planning to buy Q701.
  
 I'm still confused about the dolby settings on my soundcard, should I tick dolby headphone and what else?
 Also which sound setting should I use in-game? Battlefield 4 for example.


----------



## Spartoi

Three Questions:
  
 1) I currently own a Philips X2 and was considering switching to the Hifman HE-400s and wanted to know anyone's opinion on them for gaming? I mostly want to switch because I like the design of the 400s better and they weigh less (the X2 is kinda heavy for me for long sessions).
  
 2) I have a Sound Blaster Z that I use in PC to drive my headphones. Is there a better sound card or dac/amp combo under $100? 
  
 3) I was going to get a Mixamp for console (PS4) use. Is the Mixamp still the best price/performance dac/amp for consoles? I know the SB X7 is better but that's way too much for me.


----------



## chicolom

s4tisf4ction said:


> Hello.
> 
> Currently I have Asus Xonar DGX card and O2 amp for pc gaming. I'm planning to buy Q701.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Set it like it looks in the picture below.
  
 Most people prefer the "DH2" medium setting of dolby heapdhone, myself included.  DH1 is also OK, but I would NOT recommend DH3 as it's a reverby mess.
  
 You may not need the O2 amp, but if you already have it and would like to use it I would recommend sticking a cheap optical DAC like the FiiO D03K in between the Xonar and the O2.  Otherwise you will be "double amping" the headphone jack of the Xonar, which bottleneck the sound a little, giving you a slightly reduced soundstage and muddier/stuffier sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You never go full DH-3. NEVER.

Make sure the Xonar is outputting 5 channels or higher. Stereo + dolby headphone = NO.



24bit-96khz capable too.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> You never go full DH-3. NEVER.




[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q][/video]


----------



## S4tisF4ction

chicolom said:


> Set it like it looks in the picture below.
> 
> Most people prefer the "DH2" medium setting of dolby heapdhone, myself included.  DH1 is also OK, but I would NOT recommend DH3 as it's a reverby mess.
> 
> You may not need the O2 amp, but if you already have it and would like to use it I would recommend sticking a cheap optical DAC like the FiiO D03K in between the Xonar and the O2.  Otherwise you will be "double amping" the headphone jack of the Xonar, which bottleneck the sound a little, giving you a slightly reduced soundstage and muddier/stuffier sound.


 
  


chicolom said:


> Set it like it looks in the picture below.
> 
> Most people prefer the "DH2" medium setting of dolby heapdhone, myself included.  DH1 is also OK, but I would NOT recommend DH3 as it's a reverby mess.
> 
> You may not need the O2 amp, but if you already have it and would like to use it I would recommend sticking a cheap optical DAC like the FiiO D03K in between the Xonar and the O2.  Otherwise you will be "double amping" the headphone jack of the Xonar, which bottleneck the sound a little, giving you a slightly reduced soundstage and muddier/stuffier sound.


 
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> You never go full DH-3. NEVER.
> 
> Make sure the Xonar is outputting 5 channels or higher. Stereo + dolby headphone = NO.
> 
> ...


 
  Thanks a lot.


----------



## Wyversnake

Hey Guys !
  
 Do you think the AKG k712 is good for gaming ? Which DAC/ AMP do I need to drive it well ? Schitt Stack or smthing else ?
 I'm a newbie :/
  
 Thx for the help !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LITERALLY ON THE FIRST PAGE. I mean, I get if you want MORE opinions, I totally do, but at least hope the guide is some form of a starting point for you.


----------



## bavinck

wyversnake said:


> Hey Guys !
> 
> Do you think the AKG k712 is good for gaming ? Which DAC/ AMP do I need to drive it well ? Schitt Stack or smthing else ?
> I'm a newbie :/
> ...


 
 Consider the k7xx instead.


----------



## hilyou

I'd just like to ask the community as to how do they connect multiple consoles to their devices (Mixamp, Creative X7 etc).
  
 I game on PS4, PS3, and the Xbox 360 and plan to eventually get an Xbone. I'm planning to connect all these systems to hopefully the X7 which I plan to get sometime soon.


----------



## Sam21

I'm gonna get the 712 pads one of these days....


----------



## Sam21

get an optical switcher ?


hilyou said:


> I'd just like to ask the community as to how do they connect multiple consoles to their devices (Mixamp, Creative X7 etc).
> 
> I game on PS4, PS3, and the Xbox 360 and plan to eventually get an Xbone. I'm planning to connect all these systems to hopefully the X7 which I plan to get sometime soon.


 
  
  
 maybe get an optical switcher ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

An optical switcher like this:

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-TOSLINK-Digital-Optical-Switcher/dp/B00G188Z7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454382944&sr=8-1&keywords=optical+switcher

If it doesn't *look* like that, don't get it, as the other ones are prone to mess up or not work at all. There are various brands that look like this one, and I say those would be fine as well. Comes with a remote.

Avoid the ones with a knob.


----------



## lenroot77

hilyou said:


> I'd just like to ask the community as to how do they connect multiple consoles to their devices (Mixamp, Creative X7 etc).
> 
> I game on PS4, PS3, and the Xbox 360 and plan to eventually get an Xbone. I'm planning to connect all these systems to hopefully the X7 which I plan to get sometime soon.




If your TV outputs 5.1 via optical you can use that. Most Sony and Vizios do.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> LITERALLY ON THE FIRST PAGE. I mean, I get if you want MORE opinions, I totally do, but at least hope the guide is some form of a starting point for you.




Man I so sympathize with You now.



lenroot77 said:


> If your TV outputs 5.1 via optical you can use that. Most Sony and Vizios do.



I have my X7 connected that way. Not all tvs output actual dolby digital signal, some of them downsample it to 2ch first. Luckily bravias don't do that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, count yourself lucky if your TV passes Dolby Digital through it's optical out. Mine only does 2 channel so I had to get a switcher. Nowadays though I only have the PS4 and PC, and they use different inputs on the X7, so I don't use the optical switcher.


----------



## rambutan

Hey Mad Lust Envy, or anyone else that knows for that matter,
  
 I'm assuming you guys still remember or currently use a Turtle Beach DSS. I have a question with regards to double amping. What is the ideal volume I should set the DSS's volume pot so as to maximize sound quality when I'm double amping? 80%? 100%? For reference, the 2nd amp in the chain will be a Fiio Q1.


----------



## Sam21

set DSS volume to max, adjust the volume with the Q1.


----------



## rambutan

I'm mostly trying to avoid clipping, do you know if the DSS clips at max volume? Anyone who owns a DSS have some insight? I'd test myself but I'm waiting for a 3.5 mm to 3.5mm cable to come in. Also don't want to test by maxing the volume out on a pair of headphones, for obvious reasons.


----------



## mindbomb

chicolom said:


> Set it like it looks in the picture below.
> 
> Most people prefer the "DH2" medium setting of dolby heapdhone, myself included.  DH1 is also OK, but I would NOT recommend DH3 as it's a reverby mess.


 
 That picture is mostly correct, but you shouldn't max out volume, for clipping related reasons. Dolby headphone does a lot of mixing, and whenever you mix, you are summing the volume of multiple channels, and this can go beyond the maximum volume. So you want to leave yourself some headroom. Like 50-70% volume tops.


----------



## DoppenShloppen

I just got my dx clip on mic today in the mail so that i would no longer have to wear my old headset around my neck as a mic while wearing my X2s. Sadly, the cable microphonics are so bad that it creates super loud static sounds constantly that can be heard over chat, making it essentially useless. Oh well, at least it was only 3 bucks. Back to wearing 2 headphones for now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Max volume does not always =/= clipping, especially when Chicolom isn't using the analog out in that image, he's using the optical digital/spdif out. You can't clip the digital signal here. He's literally ensuring he's sending the full data transfer with no bit data lost. In this situation, he's sending a Dolby Headphone-laced digital signal to another dac.

Had it been the analog out, I'd agree clipping is possible, but in this instance, Chicolom is 100% correct to max volume for best results.


----------



## Defender0fAloha

What is the best headphone to run on ps4? Was looking at he400 and hd600??? And do I need an amp. I prefer an open back


----------



## shuto77

defender0faloha said:


> What is the best headphone to run on ps4? Was looking at he400 and hd600??? And do I need an amp. I prefer an open back


 
 Best gaming headphone? Definitely go with a Sennheiser HD280. It will suit your needs perfectly, is open-backed, doesn't need an amp, and -- most importantly -- is extremely comfortable.


----------



## Defender0fAloha

Also where does the sennheiser g4me one sit as far as quality in comparison on a ps4


----------



## shuto77

defender0faloha said:


> Also where does the sennheiser g4me one sit as far as quality in comparison on a ps4


 
  
 Certainly below the almighty HD280.


----------



## mindbomb

mad lust envy said:


> Max volume does not always =/= clipping, especially when Chicolom isn't using the analog out in that image, he's using the optical digital/spdif out. You can't clip the digital signal here. He's literally ensuring he's sending the full data transfer with no bit data lost. In this situation, he's sending a Dolby Headphone-laced digital signal to another dac.
> 
> Had it been the analog out, I'd agree clipping is possible, but in this instance, Chicolom is 100% correct to max volume for best results.


 
 No, that's the interesting thing, he can clip the digital signal because it is 24 bit integer and not floating point. There is a finite range of volumes with integer audio, and when you are combining the volumes of, for example, front left channel, side left channel, back left channel, subwoofer, and the hrtf filtered components of the right side, all into one channel (the left channel), you can easily go out of range. Lowering the volume gives you some headroom to prevent that.


----------



## mikaveli06

OK, I went with x2, boom pro, and 2015 mixamp. May get creative g5 if it gets console support.


----------



## mikaveli06

OK...I'm getting their lol. Do I want mixamp TR or 2015 pro? Only care about sound quality

Ordered the 2015. Is the TR still having issues with sound?


----------



## Defender0fAloha

mikaveli06 said:


> OK, I went with x2, boom pro, and 2015 mixamp. May get creative g5 if it gets console support.


 Is this to run on ps4?


----------



## mikaveli06

Yes ps4


----------



## Defender0fAloha

mikaveli06 said:


> Yes ps4



I heard there was a bad batch of x2s any way to make sure you don't get a dud


----------



## mikaveli06

defender0faloha said:


> I heard there was a bad batch of x2s any way to make sure you don't get a dud


almost garenteed from bad batch, $155 from amazon warehouse. However if only issue is the glued pads, I'll be happy, not a deal breaker. If sound is off, I have 30day return. (Previously had x1, so I know general sound expectations)


----------



## twohothardware

I need some advice regarding using a USB Snowball Mic connected to the PS4 along with a 2014 Mixamp Pro. Will the Snowball and Mixamp work fine together both connected via USB to PS4? I'm wanting to try a different mic setup that isn't connected through the Mixamp because the Mixamp seems to noticeably degrade mic quality compared to even connecting directly to the DS4 controller.


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> Certainly below the almighty HD280.


 
 I hope you arent being serious.............


----------



## Drizz1e

He's trolling because the guy either didn't read or didn't understand the first post.


----------



## Defender0fAloha

rudyae86 said:


> I hope you arent being serious.............


Yeah dude is a troll


----------



## Defender0fAloha

rudyae86 said:


> I hope you arent being serious.............


Thanks for the sarcasm


----------



## shuto77

drizz1e said:


> He's trolling because the guy either didn't read or didn't understand the first post.




Yes, this.


----------



## shuto77

rudyae86 said:


> I hope you arent being serious.............




The HD280s were my first serious headphone. They were awful - so uncomfortable. Even with a stretch. That was in 2006.

Someone in the metal thread recommended them as a low-cost option, and I had to shut it down.

So it was an inside joke with anyone who's ever worn those headphones. 

Rant over.


----------



## Yethal

twohothardware said:


> I need some advice regarding using a USB Snowball Mic connected to the PS4 along with a 2014 Mixamp Pro. Will the Snowball and Mixamp work fine together both connected via USB to PS4? I'm wanting to try a different mic setup that isn't connected through the Mixamp because the Mixamp seems to noticeably degrade mic quality compared to even connecting directly to the DS4 controller.



Connect both, in adjust devices menu set input to the mic and output to the mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD280 probably fractured my skull when I borrowed it for a few days.


----------



## rudyae86

shuto77 said:


> The HD280s were my first serious headphone. They were awful - so uncomfortable. Even with a stretch. That was in 2006.
> 
> Someone in the metal thread recommended them as a low-cost option, and I had to shut it down.
> 
> ...


 
 my sarcasm detector has not been fully optimized as of late......sleepless nights can cause this lol
  
 Shoot, I hardly remember typing what I said 
  
 Staying up late at night is worse than being drunk and falling asleep and then waking up with a hang over


----------



## paulguru

Hi guys anyone can reccomend me a good gaming headphones good in vocal sector and bass not too deep ?


----------



## Yethal

paulguru said:


> Hi guys anyone can reccomend me a good gaming headphones good in vocal sector and bass not too deep ?



Read the first post of this thread.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Read the first post of this thread.


 
 lol easiest answer for an easy question.
  
 But seriously, do people actually read the first page?
  
 MLE should maybe make a heading with HUGE letters telling newcomers to read the first page first, as well to read the reviews for each headphone. A lot of people want easy answers but there really is no easy answer. Also, by reading all the reviews you will also learn a lot of new things of which you could probably ask questions, or by using google as well.
  
Once thats done, asking more detailed questions about a specific headphone would probably get you a more detailed answer as well.


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> The HD280 probably fractured my skull when I borrowed it for a few days.




Back in 2006, I wish I had bought something else, other than the HD280. They turned me off from headphones for about four years.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> lol easiest answer for an easy question.
> 
> But seriously, do people actually read the first page?
> 
> ...



I run a facebook group about ps4. The pinned post has a "read the group rules" written in all caps. Doesn't help. I know da feel.


----------



## Change is Good

One of you OG Hifiman gamers need to buy my screw-on Boompro adapter, please! I no longer need it since I am getting my X00's connectors switched to 2.5mm (which I already have one for). I promise you will be happy using your HFMs with the BoomPro. I know I am!
  


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



That means you, Mud Lasthole Envious


----------



## ChookJones1987

paulguru said:


> Hi guys anyone can reccomend me a good gaming headphones good in vocal sector and bass not too deep ?


 
 Depends on your budget. Maybe the 650? It has some of the best micro detail and resolution I've heard out of good amps. Vocals are it's strong suit, slightly prefer the 650's vocals to my LCD-2's. The only issue with the 650 is it has higher distortion in the lower bass and it can be a flip sloppy which can be fixed with mods. It has better imaging than all of the AKG's.
  
 What is your issue with deep bass? it makes the music more complete, elevated mid bass is more of an issue in some headphones. I also recommend the K612 on a lower budget. Better soundstage in the sense it's more cohesive.


----------



## shuto77

Hey, does anyone have a mini XLR cable, about four feet, with an angled 3.5mm termination? 

I figure someone here should have one, with all these AKG fans here. Pm me with details and price. I'm looking for something ~$30.

Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

Wish I could help ya out shuto. I sold my coiled AKG cable a few weeks back for cheap. Good luck and keep an eye on the classifieds.


----------



## dakanao

paulguru said:


> Hi guys anyone can reccomend me a good gaming headphones good in vocal sector and bass not too deep ?


 
 I could recommend Philips Fidelio L2 if you don't have an amp. Amazing, very clear vocals and just very clear and smooth sound in general with good bass, but not overwhelmingly.


----------



## shuto77

Yes, will do. 
  
 This was the second place I hit after the classifieds. 
  
 If I want something custom made, I have to pay $50-65. Considering how common the mini XLR connection is, I'm assuming that shouldn't be necessary and that they shouldn't be hard to find. 
  
 The good thing with these Beyers is that the cable isn't super thick, like a Fostex or HIFIMAN, so it's not too bulky to tie up, so I'll live for a few weeks until something pops up.


----------



## Congo1234

I was all set on the Fidelio X2 for gaming with a vmoda mod mic, but I've been reading terrible things about quality control issues. Can anyone recommend a better or similar option. Price under $500


----------



## mikaveli06

congo1234 said:


> I was all set on the Fidelio X2 for gaming with a vmoda mod mic, but I've been reading terrible things about quality control issues. Can anyone recommend a better or similar option. Price under $500


i just picked up pair from amazon wharehouse for $150. Pads are glued on but sonically they are excellent. With amazons 30day return policy i say worth a shot. I think the issues have been overblown imo. For $150 i can live with glued pads


----------



## Defender0fAloha

mikaveli06 said:


> i just picked up pair from amazon wharehouse for $150. Pads are glued on but sonically they are excellent. With amazons 30day return policy i say worth a shot. I think the issues have been overblown imo. For $150 i can live with glued pads







congo1234 said:


> I was all set on the Fidelio X2 for gaming with a vmoda mod mic, but I've been reading terrible things about quality control issues. Can anyone recommend a better or similar option. Price under $500


if you are concerned just buy a used pair that has woox on the bottom of the box those are pre Gibson


----------



## rudyae86

mikaveli06 said:


> i just picked up pair from amazon wharehouse for $150. Pads are glued on but sonically they are excellent. With amazons 30day return policy i say worth a shot. I think the issues have been overblown imo. For $150 i can live with glued pads


 

 Think of it as if purchasing an X2 for the price of an X1........
  
  
 Or we should call these new X2s, the X2.1 or X1.2 ( just because of the glued pads lol)
  
 Also, if I recall, someone in here said that last year, when they were trying to get replacement pads for their X2s.....they mentioned that they were not making or selling X2 pads anymore.
  
 Not sure if that is or was true before the change of Mnftr but as long as the new X2s sound exactly as the old X2s and dont have leaking dye.......

 Ill be purchasing a new pair later this year on Black Friday for 150 dollars (lol JK i dont know if they will cost that by BF but my crystal ball says it could be a possibility, especially since I was right about the 200 dollar mark price of a recent lightning deal.... )


----------



## mikaveli06

rudyae86 said:


> Think of it as if purchasing an X2 for the price of an X1........
> 
> 
> Or we should call these new X2s, the X2.1 or X1.2 ( just because of the glued pads lol)
> ...


im happy with mine, $155. Down to $136 now lol


----------



## Congo1234

No right / left imbalance that you notice?


----------



## rudyae86

mikaveli06 said:


> im happy with mine, $155. Down to $136 now lol


 

 Im talking about Brand NEW not like new breeeh lol
  
 If I didnt have an X2 from last year, I would have bought another one right now.....
  
  
 And I will once it hits 150 brand NEW. Need a pair at my parents house in Mexico.


----------



## jthom320

I'd recomend taking a shot on the X2's as well.  When you consider the price, fact it can be driven off a mixamp and the size of the soundstage combined with a bassy signature I'm not sure there's anything else under 300 dollars that truly competes.  I've only tested them never owned but I was impressed.  
  
 Maybe K7XX/712s in terms of price/perf.


----------



## canthearyou

I've been using my X2s exclusively for gaming and am very happy with them. Mine are the dreaded Gibson model, lol. They sound and look perfect! The extra bass is very nice when called upon. I am powering them from Creative G5.


----------



## mikaveli06

congo1234 said:


> No right / left imbalance that you notice?


no imbalance or sound flaws at all


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just now realized after all this time that I didn't add the Fostex TH-600 review I did on headphone.guru to the guide.

Whoops.


http://headphone.guru/fostex-th-600-luxury-in-stealth/


I'll make sure to add that one once I add something else.

Though that's the last one to have the old ratings.


----------



## Spartoi

spartoi said:


> Three Questions:
> 
> 1) I currently own a Philips X2 and was considering switching to the Hifman HE-400s and wanted to know anyone's opinion on them for gaming? I mostly want to switch because I like the design of the 400s better and they weigh less (the X2 is kinda heavy for me for long sessions).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Anyone?


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

mad lust envy said:


> I just now realized after all this time that I didn't add the Fostex TH-600 review I did on headphone.guru to the guide.
> 
> Whoops.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Enjoyable read. I wonder what your assessment of the X00 would be in relation to the 600 and 900 (and even the D7000). Evidence and my assumptions indicate that they all sound very similar but your nuanced comparison in particular would be interesting to me. That said, I'm a very satisfied and fortunate X00 owner. I'll be frequenting that website more.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unfortunately, it'd be hard to compare the X00 to the other two, as I had both the TH600 and TH900 on hand to directly compare. The X00 would be alone and I didn't own the 600-900 long enough to feel comfortable comparing them based off memory.

I can't believe that review was up on guru last September, and I somehow didn't thgink to add it here.

:rolleyes:

I'm up to the Midrange section of my Creative JAM review, so I'm hoping to finish at least the rough draft of the full review tomorrow and work on it from there. Tuesday and onward will be busy times working on something, so I need to get this done.

I'm a bit rusty too, so hopefully it all doesn't look like crap in the end.


----------



## real2124

Wow, great guide. Many thanks Mad Lust Envy.
  
 Which headphones do you think have the best "fun factor" as I'm looking for that immersion/surround experience?
  
 I was thinking of going for the Sennheiser 363D for PC gaming . What do you think ? note: I don't care about the mic.
  
 Or if there's a better headset around the $250-$350 range let me know.


----------



## rudyae86

Did you read the first page of this thread? if you didnt, read all of it. You will learn a lot.
  
 There is also a list of headphones that he categorize as fun headphones.
  
 Come back and ask again when you are done reading that first page


----------



## real2124

Indeed, I did. I even wrote down the top 5 headphones that have the highest fun factor.
  
 But, I still have a question about that Senn 363D  (which I didn't see listed - ya, I know they're a headset not headphones... ).


----------



## shuto77

congo1234 said:


> I was all set on the Fidelio X2 for gaming with a vmoda mod mic, but I've been reading terrible things about quality control issues. Can anyone recommend a better or similar option. Price under $500







mikaveli06 said:


> i just picked up pair from amazon wharehouse for $150. Pads are glued on but sonically they are excellent. With amazons 30day return policy i say worth a shot. I think the issues have been overblown imo. For $150 i can live with glued pads




Yes, I second mikaveli's sentiments. I really liked them as a bassy gaming headphone. 

I ultimately sold them because I wanted an open headphone that is really good with metal music. 

For $150, they're impossible to beat, and do well with all but the most complex music. 

Unless you listen to w lot of classical, jazz or metal, you will probably be pleased with their music performance as well. 

I'll probably end picking up another pair, as i miss mine.


----------



## real2124

I just picked up the X1s as they seem to be about as good as the X2s from what I read (selective bias ofc...).
  
 Mad Lust rated x1s and x2s equally. 
  
 Hope I don't regret it... o.o


----------



## confusedpsyduck

Anyone have much experience with the Sony MDR-MA900?
  
 Going of the MLE guide and some other reviews they seem like a pair that I really want, sadly though they are hard to find these days and only a Japanese import will do.
  
 Do you guys think that it's still worth the price (£200) to import them or are there better options available in Europe now? I'm mainly looking for a comfort upgrade from the AD700x, which recently has started to irritate me during longer gaming sessions.
  
 Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

real2124 said:


> I just picked up the X1s as they seem to be about as good as the X2s from what I read (selective bias ofc...).
> 
> Mad Lust rated x1s and x2s equally.
> 
> Hope I don't regret it... o.o




This is the reason why I'm doing away with scores. I said not to compare scores, yet people do it. So moving forward, scores will be gone and people will have to read the pros and cons of headphones they are intereested in. The scores were reflective on how I felt at the time of review based on the headphone's own merits. A 7 from a Koss KSC75 is not the same as a 7 from the Audeze LCD2. STOP COMPARING SCORES.

The X1 is not as good as the X2. The X2 has better bass control, better midrange, and a more detailed sound. It's also more comfortable due to having a larger headband to fit larger heads.


----------



## real2124

mad lust envy said:


> The X1 is not as good as the X2. The X2 has better bass control, better midrange, and a more detailed sound. It's also more comfortable due to having a larger headband to fit larger heads.


 
   

 Maybe make that more apparent on the front page?


----------



## AxelCloris

real2124 said:


> Maybe make that more apparent on the front page?


 
  
 Taken directly from the X2 review on said front page.
  
 "The X2 for gaming purposes is fantastic. The improved clarity over the X1 is noticeable from the onset. Less bass bloat that doesn't creep up on the mids the way they did on the X1, while still retaining an excellent amount of bass and immersion."
  
*tl;dr* X2 is better than X1.


----------



## real2124

My apologies.  Sigh. my own fault for not properly reading/researching. 
  
 If I had spent $20 extra I'd have x2 =/
  
 -- I'm still curious about the Sennheiser 363D , would be interested to see how they measure up.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

mad lust envy said:


> *Unfortunately, it'd be hard to compare the X00 to the other two, as I had both the TH600 and TH900 on hand to directly compare. The X00 would be alone and I didn't own the 600-900 long enough to feel comfortable comparing them based off memory.*
> 
> I can't believe that review was up on guru last September, and I somehow didn't thgink to add it here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Guessed as much.
  
 At least you remembered to link it. Better late than never. If the JAM review reads even half as well as the TH-600 one, I'm sure it'll be far north of "crap" (whatever that is...)


----------



## Sam21

I am looking forward to maybe get the JAM....looks very comfy...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it's very a much a wear all day kind of headphone.... as long as you try and put some form of padding on the bare headband. I had to tear up a sock and use black mechnaical tape, hahaha.

It's like $38 on Amazon now, and I'd say if you want an wireless headset that sounds decent and not muffled/boomy/messy, go for it. I realluy like it for the price and uses. Just remember it's stereo only.

I use the JAM more than my HE400 and KSC75 combined. I don't use the Jam for gaming because no virtual surround. Last time I bought a 3.5mm to bluetooth adapter that I hooked up to the X7, the adapter sounded piss poor.

Spoilers.


----------



## Congo1234

Well it looks like the attention I brought up sold out 75% of the Amazon warehouse deals on the Fidelio X2  
The price is now close to $200. I found a WOOX pair on eBay for $200 with 100 percent seller feedback and free returns. He claims they are new but open box. We shall see.


----------



## AxelCloris

congo1234 said:


> Well it looks like the attention I brought up sold out 75% of the Amazon warehouse deals on the Fidelio X2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 It was posted on SlickDeals earlier today and the majority sold minutes after the deal made the front page.


----------



## Congo1234

Ahhh.....just when I was feeling omnipotent.


----------



## Sam21

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's very a much a wear all day kind of headphone.... as long as you try and put some form of padding on the bare headband. I had to tear up a sock and use black mechnaical tape, hahaha.
> 
> It's like $38 on Amazon now, and I'd say if you want an wireless headset that sounds decent and not muffled/boomy/messy, go for it. I realluy like it for the price and uses. Just remember it's stereo only.
> 
> ...


 
 I think it does have a creative driver and you can use it via the USB cable...it has stereo virtual surround too...read the manual


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I touched upon that on my review (you're getting ahead of my review  ), but stereo surround is...icky and doesn't work anywhere near as good as true virtual surround.


----------



## rudyae86

real2124 said:


> My apologies.  Sigh. my own fault for not properly reading/researching.
> 
> If I had spent $20 extra I'd have x2 =/
> 
> -- I'm still curious about the Sennheiser 363D , would be interested to see how they measure up.




PC363D~=~PC360=G4ME ONE=HD558/598

Almost the same......


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hitting home stretch in the JAM review. I wrote a LOT more than I expected. Guess I wanted to make sure it wasn't a throw away review, lol. Damn, I better finish tonight. At least the rough draft. I can edit later.


----------



## real2124

If you're looking for a more immersive gaming experience would you go for open or closed ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

if you don't need isolation there is no need to go closed 
  
 immersion is something subjective, Some like overblown bass to feel as if bombs are dropped at ear height, directly into the canal (though I believe all of them will change with more experience), some want outstanding "hear through" qualities with low bass levels and still feel immersed (Rainbow 6 Siege), however I still believe that there are some decisive objective factors or a good base:
  
 good extension into both ways, out of the your head soundstage, low distortion and a decent setup to connect them to. 
 Something like the K7XX/K712, X2, HE-400S, TH-X00, or a T1V1 for 400 bucks.
  
 I like the HD800 series most because they don't blink at all whatever you throw at them (well, maybe you blink, cringe and wink when the Black Metal Gods shove their pickaxe through your nostrils out of your ears) while giving the largest and most defined soundstage, with huge detail and great extension but the setups they need are already expensive on a base level. 
  
 Having had tons of headphones so far, the TH-900 (which after all is not closed) and the HD800 they both proved to me that isolation is not the greatest contributor.


----------



## real2124

Very nice post Fege. 
  
  
 Which do you recommend as best closed-headphones gaming? * I'm leaning towards DT770 PRO's at the moment. *
  
 Btw, any value in upgrading my onboard sound (pretty good -AL889) to a soundcard (creative z series are good for gaming immersion/surrodung feel) ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, I liked the DT770 Limited Anniversary Edition 32 Ohm the most as it had the least bass bloat. Supposedly the Studio Legend 32 Ohm version is the same, just non-limited.
 DT770 Pro has the highest clamp and most bass bloat. Do you totally need isolation?
  
 The SBZ has around 20 Ohm output impedance so the bass bloat probably "enhances". Does your onboard sound have Dolby Home Theater or Sonic Soundstage? You could save up for the BlasterX G5 and buy it at a deal and use the aforementioned in the meanwhile. With 2,2 Ohm output impedance it will not stay in the way and incite a FR change.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Honestly, unless you're constantly next to someone, I don't see why anyone looks so hard for total isolation. Even a closed headphone with bad isolation, or a 'closed' headphone with ports that allow sound to escape (TH900) will do fine in keeping sound around you and not throughtout the whole house.

Hell, even open headphones won't be a bother if you're in a room with the door closed. Planars may penetrate doors though.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, it's very a much a wear all day kind of headphone.... as long as you try and put some form of padding on the bare headband. I had to tear up a sock and use black mechnaical tape, hahaha.
> 
> It's like $38 on Amazon now, and I'd say if you want an wireless headset that sounds decent and not muffled/boomy/messy, go for it. I realluy like it for the price and uses. Just remember it's stereo only.
> 
> ...


----------



## rambutan

Question about double amping.
  
 So I have the following:
  
 PS4 -> Turtle Beach DSS (max volume) -> Fiio Q1 -> headphones (Audio Technica AD900X's)
  
 I'm honestly just using the Fiio Q1 because I wanted volume control nearby without getting up and adjusting the volume on the DSS which sits beside the PS4. I don't have a long enough optical cable for the DSS and I didn't want multiple cables (optical + USB from the DSS) anyway.
  
 The first thing I noticed is that the DSS hiss is now gone. However, I think the double amping changed the sound signature enough that the mids feel a little recessed and has less clarity. I mostly noticed this during voiceover's in-game. I decided to turn off the Dolby Processing and tried to play music from the PS4 just to confirm what I thought I was hearing, and yup, same thing. Is this something that you just can't avoid when double amping? Bass Boost is off on the Fiio Q1 btw. Using the Q1 as an amp with my smartphone sounded great so I was pretty disappointed that double amping it with a DSS didn't give me good results.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless you're attaching a powerful amp to another, not so powerful amp, double amping is not going to help. That Fiio Q1 is far from what you need to gain much amping benefits. People need to understand that just a few decibels increase from one amp to another demands more than DOUBLE what the original amp was capable of, IIRC.

This is why we always recommend a desktop amp to help power these small gaming amps.


----------



## rambutan

Thanks. Yeah, like I said, I did it mostly for volume control within an arm's reach. I figured it'd be a decent solution compared to an in-line volume control cable or something. I wasn't really looking for any amp benefits at all since the AD900X is super super easy to drive. I just wasn't expecting the audio to turn out worse when paired up with a DSS. (since using the Q1 as an amp with a smartphone gives me great results)


----------



## real2124

mad lust envy said:


> Honestly, unless you're constantly next to someone, I don't see why anyone looks so hard for total isolation. Even a closed headphone with bad isolation, or a 'closed' headphone with ports that allow sound to escape (TH900) will do fine in keeping sound around you and not throughtout the whole house.
> 
> Hell, even open headphones won't be a bother if you're in a room with the door closed. Planars may penetrate doors though.


 
  
 I guess you haven't that the opinions of many gamers is that closed is their preference because of the sense immersion. Not talking about isolation here.
  
 "Closed headphones on the other hand tend to have a more ‘boxed in’ sound to them (where it sounds like the music is coming from inside your head) and boomier, more resonant (slower) sounding bass. Often this leads to closed headphones sounding bassier, but if you listen closely it’s normally just because the bass is stopping and starting slower, and less accurately, than it would on an open model. This is why using the term “better” can be very subjective. You might consider slow, boomy overpowering bass to be “better” than well defined and clear bass" -headphones.com.au


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case, I know all this. That's exactly why stuff like the Denon D7000 is basically king on my immersion list.

Closed headphones aren't necessary in any case. I can get that kind of immersion from an bass equalized planarmagnetic like the HE400, or LCD2 and it will sound better. I assure you.


----------



## real2124

mad lust envy said:


> In any case, I know all this. That's exactly why stuff like the Denon D7000 is basically king on my immersion list.
> 
> Closed headphones aren't necessary in any case. I can get that kind of immersion from an bass equalized planarmagnetic like the HE400, or LCD2 and it will sound better. I assure you.


 
  
 Wow, I cannot find a single D7000 for sale....anywhere (except 2 on amazon for $1199) 
  
 But, you'd pick the HE400/LCD2 over the Denon D7000? Interesting.
  
 edit: sorry for being very off-topic: As a PC gamer would there be any sense in buying an amazing $300-$400 soundcard inclusive on 600ohms amps ? That would be superior to using amps/dacs, right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never said that. I'd pick them over most closed headphones that aren't Fostex/Denons. A D7000 now... I'd probably choose over any other headphone.


----------



## real2124

Ah, sorry. Pity the 7000s are so hard to find. 
  
 what would be your 2nd/3rd pic after D7000s ? as the runner ups to king of immersion


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Too many to decide on. Probably a TH900. But I'd want a planar anything nowadays so I'd look for a pre-fazor LCD2.

There is SOMETHING I'd say that I would absolutely recommend that is absolutely current, but I can't talk about it until Iater. It's expensive though. But man, it sounds amazing and pretty much hits all the right marks.

I won't confirm or deny any guesses, so don't even try. You'll have to wait. But if you can't afford something more expensive than anything else I've reviewed here, don't worry about it.


----------



## Yethal

real2124 said:


> Wow, I cannot find a single D7000 for sale....anywhere (except 2 on amazon for $1199)
> 
> But, you'd pick the HE400/LCD2 over the Denon D7000? Interesting.
> 
> edit: sorry for being very off-topic: As a PC gamer would there be any sense in buying an amazing $300-$400 soundcard inclusive on 600ohms amps ? That would be superior to using amps/dacs, right?



Buying a cheap soundcard together with an amp/dac will yield better sound, customization and upgradebility.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm seeing on the news that there's been a developing increase in ether ODs, in Orlando, so I'd stay away from any corners where you see shoes hanging from telephone wires, Mud Lasthole Envious.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I'm seeing on the news that there's been a developing increase in ether ODs, in Orlando, so I'd stay away from any corners where you see shoes hanging from telephone wires, Mud Lasthole Envious.


 
 lol only in Florida


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah... they love smokin 'dat ether in O-town. We prefer to smoke mahogany in Daytona...


----------



## Evshrug

real2124 said:


> Ah, sorry. Pity the 7000s are so hard to find.
> 
> what would be your 2nd/3rd pic after D7000s ? as the runner ups to king of immersion



He's had 2 different D7000, and each time he got super depressed when he had to sell them. Generally, it's a lot of money to have locked up in headphones.

The D7000 was largely made by Fostex for Denon as an OEM product, now Fostex is selling the TH900 as the logical successor/descendant... Honestly, I can't tell you if the TH900 even sounds different from the D7000. Plus, those red cups!

I'm sorely tempted by the Fostex T20RP mk III on sale for $130 right now from B&H, that's the current open variant of the modder's legend T50RP. Supposed to have deeper bass than the semi- and fully closed T50RP and T40RP. "Enhanced Bass" isn't my long-term primary favorite sound signature, but $130 is cheap enough to have as a secondary headphone while not being so cheap as to be a big step-down over my eventual goal in a primary headphone.

Right now I'm still using a pair of AKG K612 which remain a balanced and capable "budget mid-fi" headphone quite well suited to gaming in surround. It's holding me over till after this annoyingly expensive wedding, but after a few (enjoyable) years in mid-fi I'm itching to get something high- or even summit-fi... That MrSpeakers Ether was something special!




mad lust envy said:


> Too many to decide on. Probably a TH900. But I'd want a planar anything nowadays so I'd look for a pre-fazor LCD2.
> 
> There is SOMETHING I'd say that I would absolutely recommend that is absolutely current, but I can't talk about it until Iater. It's expensive though. But man, it sounds amazing and pretty much hits all the right marks.
> 
> I won't confirm or deny any guesses, so don't even try. You'll have to wait. But if you can't afford something more expensive than anything else I've reviewed here, don't worry about it.




The TH900 is indeed even greater sounding than it is unique and beautiful to look at... It provided one of two moments at RMAF that sent shivers down my spine (nice shivers). The Fostex HP-A4 DAC/amp wasn't powerful enough to bring out the richness and full potential of the TH900, so that puts the FiiO E09k, Schiit Magni, and Creative X7 under the category of "makes plenty of volume but sounds kinda thin and dull."

Now, Mad, about your hint-hint-headphone, I realize you're not going to confirm guesses yet... But more generally, is it a current headphone available to the masses NOW, or some prototype you are unable to discuss at this time?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not dropping any hints whatsoever.


----------



## Tai1or Made

Subscribed for the amazing gaming setup tips.


----------



## real2124

evshrug said:


> He's had 2 different D7000, and each time he got super depressed when he had to sell them. Generally, it's a lot of money to have locked up in headphones.
> 
> The D7000 was largely made by Fostex for Denon as an OEM product, now Fostex is selling the TH900 as the logical successor/descendant... Honestly, I can't tell you if the TH900 even sounds different from the D7000. Plus, those red cups!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wow, so, you're using the K612s atm... and you have used the TH900s? 

 But you're tempted by $130 cans ? Are they superior in your opinion ? (not trying to be rude, genuinely interested as I'm looking at buying the TH900s but if I can get the same effect for $130... !!! )


----------



## Fegefeuer

no, the TH-900 is unique


----------



## real2124

Anything in your experience that comes close to the TH900?


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, on paper the TH-X00 seems kinda close but bass distortion is superior (as in lower) on the TH-900 on all levels and damn that amazing bass really is special.
 Those I know that imported them to Germany and know/own the TH-900 confirm it by hearing. Still it's 399 vs. probably 4 times that price by now so no need to be harsh on the X00


----------



## Change is Good

I'm inclined to think that the TH-X00 is a just a TH-600 w/mahogany cups and 500rp pads. This is just speculation, though, from what I'm hearing after switching to some 600 cups that I found for cheap. The sound change I hear falls more in line with what I read about the 600 regarding sharper treble and a more v-shaped curve.

I like it, actually, but will be dampening the 600 cups to tame some of that treble spike they develop. Yeah, I could just go back to the mahogany but those cups don't make the X00 rumble down low as much as it does with the 600 cups.


----------



## Evshrug

real2124 said:


> Wow, so, you're using the K612s atm... and you have used the TH900s?
> 
> 
> But you're tempted by $130 cans ? Are they superior in your opinion ? (not trying to be rude, genuinely interested as I'm looking at buying the TH900s but if I can get the same effect for $130... !!! )




Well I got to hear a TH900 at a convention, but currently I can't afford it 
I also heard the T50RP mark III at RMAF, it doesn't sound in the same league as the much more expensive TH900 but it DID sound really good for the $160 price... and the T20RP is supposed to be the open version of the T50RP, and Fostex describes it has having more bass than the T50RP. I didn't hear the T20RP, thus my curiosity!

TH900 bass (and lower mids) are so full and special, that even I, as a non-basshead, really enjoyed it with a powerful amp.


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Well I got to hear a TH900 at a convention, but currently I can't afford it
> I also heard the T50RP mark III at RMAF, it doesn't sound in the same league as the much more expensive TH900 but it DID sound really good for the $160 price... and the T20RP is supposed to be the open version of the T50RP, and Fostex describes it has having more bass than the T50RP. I didn't hear the T20RP, thus my curiosity!
> 
> TH900 bass (and lower mids) are so full and special, that even I, as a non-basshead, really enjoyed it with a powerful amp.




Stop! U are making me want to check out the t20rp's! Ha


----------



## Evshrug

Can't help it! I'm in the same boat, debating on telling my fiancé that my tax return was $130 less and Oh wonder who sent me these headphones ??


----------



## Sam21

I have the T50RP MKIII with zmf lambskins and the pilot pad...All I can say is that it destroys all the other headphones that I have...


----------



## samsonite727

Awesome work on the list!
  
 There are 3 headphones that garner my my interest. The fidelio x2 (top choice), akg q701 and the beyerdynamic dt990, I pretty much know the difference between them when it comes to sound quality but what I want to know is the sound leakage to those that have tried all three. I know there are open headphones and they will leak sound at a high volume but what order would you rank these headphones when it comes to sound leak?
  
 thanks


----------



## Evshrug

Beyer and AKG are pretty close... Haven't heard the X2 myself.


----------



## lenroot77

samsonite727 said:


> Awesome work on the list!
> 
> There are 3 headphones that garner my my interest. The fidelio x2 (top choice), akg q701 and the beyerdynamic dt990, I pretty much know the difference between them when it comes to sound quality but what I want to know is the sound leakage to those that have tried all three. I know there are open headphones and they will leak sound at a high volume but what order would you rank these headphones when it comes to sound leak?
> 
> thanks




I've had the Q, 990's, and the x1's (which i assume are not much different than the x2's) the difference is slim to none. I'd make ur choice on which sound signature u think u will enjoy most. You may also want to consider amping requirements and mic options.


----------



## Change is Good

Ev, I want you to try my SHP500 one day.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Ev, I want you to try my SHP500 one day.




They didn't discontinue those... Right? How's the physical wearing comfort?


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, they're discontinued but probably can still be found for <$90. These are my beaters, hella comfy (especially with my pad mod) and even better sounding considering their cost. I went from the K7XX to these as my everyday gaming cans and haven't looked back. It's a real benefit having them around because it saves the X00 and 400i from all the wear and tear my K7XX and 1540 went through.

Though, the sound change from the pad swap and extra layer of material above the driver has much to do with how much I like them. In stock, they were still awesome sounding for the price but a bit too bright and boring for me. Some shure velours really broiught out the beast in the 9500.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, I'm more or less with the JAM review. Next step is lots of editing, and then submission.

A load off my mind, for sure. I feel like such an arsehat making Creative wait so long.


----------



## AxelCloris

mad lust envy said:


> Too many to decide on. Probably a TH900. But I'd want a planar anything nowadays so I'd look for a pre-fazor LCD2.
> 
> There is SOMETHING I'd say that I would absolutely recommend that is absolutely current, but I can't talk about it until Iater. It's expensive though. But man, it sounds amazing and pretty much hits all the right marks.
> 
> I won't confirm or deny any guesses, so don't even try. You'll have to wait. But if you can't afford something more expensive than anything else I've reviewed here, don't worry about it.


 
  
 You're totally rocking the SR-009, BHSE, and Chord DAVE aren't you?


----------



## Fura T7

Hello MLE, im going to buy the AKG K702, and i'm going to buy them only for fps gaming, do I need a amp then?


----------



## AxelCloris

fura t7 said:


> Hello MLE, im going to buy the AKG K702, and i'm going to buy them only for fps gaming, do I need a amp then?


 
  
 Taken verbatim from the K701/2 review on the first page:
  


> Yes, they do scale with good amping, but for the purpose of gaming, I don't deem it necessary, asides from when you're in need of voice chat.


----------



## PurpleAngel

fura t7 said:


> Hello MLE, im going to buy the AKG K702, and I'm going to buy them only for fps gaming, do I need a amp then?


 
  
 Yep, you need an amp, the 62-Ohm AKG 700 series is a little more power demanding then some 250-Ohm Beyers.


----------



## lenroot77

purpleangel said:


> Yep, you need an amp, the 62-Ohm AKG 700 series is a little more power demanding then some 250-Ohm Beyers.



Maybe as much as some 600ohm beyers... I seem to recall Evshrug saying in his e5 review that his k612's required more power than his dt880 600ohms.
Those AKG's are hungry!


----------



## Victor Dahan

hi everyone, can someone tell me if i should trade my xonar dx in one sound blaster z? i'm just looking for a better surround for fps games!


----------



## lenroot77

K612 for a 100 bucks LNIB... Great deal!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/765401/akg-k612pro-reference-lnib-price-drop


----------



## ajlong12

Hey guys! Just got home to unbox my new HD 800 with Valhalla 2 amp. I have to say, the positional audio in gaming blows my AKG Q701 out of the water. Instead of just hearing "Side to side" movements, I can now accurately position units IN FRONT of me. I see what you mean when you talk about "depth". These HD 800's provide a new window into 3D positioning when it comes to spatial depth.


----------



## shuto77

purpleangel said:


> Yep, you need an amp, the 62-Ohm AKG 700 series is a little more power demanding then some 250-Ohm Beyers.







lenroot77 said:


> Maybe as much as some 600ohm beyers... I seem to recall Evshrug saying in his e5 review that his k612's required more power than his dt880 600ohms.
> Those AKG's are hungry!




Yes, the AKG K7XX (which I owned previously) needed more power than the 35ohm Hifiman He400i and the 250ohm Beyerdynamic T70 and DT1770. 

I believe the Hifiman He560s (45ohms) are hungrier than the AKG K7XX, although I didn't have them at the same time to compare.


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> Maybe as much as some 600ohm beyers... I seem to recall Evshrug saying in his e5 review that his k612's required more power than his dt880 600ohms.
> Those AKG's are hungry!




Weeeeeeeeell the K702 is 62 Ohms, while the K612 is 120 Ohms, BUT BOTH HAVE LOWER THAN AVERAGE SENSITIVITY, so you'd have to crank up the dial a few notches (like on a clock face, an "hour" or so more turn). I can play the AKG K612 off my iPhone or iPad at my normal listening volume, but I've only got like two squares of volume headroom left, and weak amps sound obviously anemic and "sterile." You don't need more volume for the AKGs while gaming without chat, but they sound a lot more fun with a nicer & more powerful amp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

ajlong12 said:


> Hey guys! Just got home to unbox my new HD 800. I have to say, the positional audio in gaming blows my AKG Q701 out of the water. Instead of just hearing "Side to side" movements, I can now accurately position units IN FRONT of me. I see what you mean when you talk about "depth". These HD 800's provide a new window into 3D positioning when it comes to spatial depth.
> 
> http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae82/supralex1/P1020190.jpg


 
  
 always saying it man, aaaaalways
  
 however I wouldn't use a stand like that. Better use a stand where the pads can cool off and dry, hanging freely. Like Rooms Audio Line.


----------



## jthom320

shuto77 said:


> Yes, the AKG K7XX (which I owned previously) needed more power than the 35ohm Hifiman He400i and the 250ohm Beyerdynamic T70 and DT1770.
> 
> I believe the Hifiman He560s (45ohms) are hungrier than the AKG K7XX, although I didn't have them at the same time to compare.


 
 The 560s and 712s are about the same.  I was able to use them pretty much interchangeably at the same volume level and not notice a huge difference.
  
 I'm actually surprised at how efficient the 560s actually seem to be.  People had me convinced you needed a Lyr 2 or something similar to power them properly.  My Asgard 2 sits with the dial at about 10 o clock for normal listening volume.
  
  


ajlong12 said:


> Hey guys! Just got home to unbox my new HD 800. I have to say, the positional audio in gaming blows my AKG Q701 out of the water. Instead of just hearing "Side to side" movements, I can now accurately position units IN FRONT of me. I see what you mean when you talk about "depth". These HD 800's provide a new window into 3D positioning when it comes to spatial depth.
> 
> http://i960.photobucket.com/albums/ae82/supralex1/P1020190.jpg


 
  
  
 I love those 290 blocks you have.  I had them with the active backplates about a year ago.  Aquacomputer gear is awesome.


----------



## ajlong12

jthom320 said:


> I love those 290 blocks you have.  I had them with the active backplates about a year ago.  Aquacomputer gear is awesome.


 
  
 They definitely looked sweet when I had the 290's, until summer of last year when I switched to a single 980 Ti and the Acer G-Sync monitor. Unfortunately, AMD's crossfire support was atrocious and I was fed up with the constant hassle. I may go for a custom loop again in the future when big Pascal comes out, I do indeed love the Aquacomputer blocks!


----------



## jthom320

ajlong12 said:


> They definitely looked sweet when I had the 290's, until summer of last year when I switched to a single 980 Ti and the Acer G-Sync monitor. Unfortunately, AMD's crossfire support was atrocious and I was fed up with the constant hassle. I may go for a custom loop again in the future when big Pascal comes out, I do indeed love the Aquacomputer blocks!


 
 I switched to Nvidia as well.
  
 I think I might like the Heatkillers new designs the best at the moment but I love those palm trees.  Great block.  If only AMD's software was up to par like you said.


----------



## Change is Good

Looks like the K7XX will have a red variant sold by Massdrop on valentine's day, similar style to that of the AE and K712.


----------



## shuto77

jthom320 said:


> The 560s and 712s are about the same.  I was able to use them pretty much interchangeably at the same volume level and not notice a huge difference.
> 
> I'm actually surprised at how efficient the 560s actually seem to be.  People had me convinced you needed a Lyr 2 or something similar to power them properly.  My Asgard 2 sits with the dial at about 10 o clock for normal listening volume.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> Looks like the K7XX will have a red variant sold by Massdrop on valentine's day, similar style to that of the AE and K712.




I'm sooooo glad they didn't do the black/blue color scheme I voted for, because I would have probably bought them again, for no good reason. 

But yes, I sometimes miss my AKG K7XX for gaming. It's such a great deal!


----------



## AxelCloris

shuto77 said:


> I'm sooooo glad they didn't do the black/blue color scheme I voted for, because I would have probably bought them again, for no good reason.
> 
> But yes, I sometimes miss my AKG K7XX for gaming. It's such a great deal!


 
  
 You should check out the K702 65th Anniversary Edition.
  





 (Not my photo.)


----------



## Change is Good

Still my favorite color scheme of all the K7XX variants.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> You should check out the K702 65th Anniversary Edition.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







change is good said:


> Still my favorite color scheme of all the K7XX variants.




Ditto. I think the Annies are very attractive. 

If someone can conclusively tell me that the Annies sound better and are better built than the K7XX, I'll buy them when funds permit. 

Otherwise, I can always grab a k7xx in like-new condition for $170-ish.

I know this is a point of significant contention, however.


----------



## Fura T7

Hello guys, which amp do you prefer I use for the Philips Fidelio X2, i'm playing on a ps4. I would like to get surround sound so I can pinpoint enemies. If that is possible, thank you!


----------



## canthearyou

fura t7 said:


> Hello guys, which amp do you prefer I use for the Philips Fidelio X2, i'm playing on a ps4. I would like to get surround sound so I can pinpoint enemies. If that is possible, thank you!




Pick up a SoundblasterX G5.


----------



## jthom320

canthearyou said:


> Pick up a SoundblasterX G5.


 
 Unless they added in SBX for console that's not going to work for him.
  
 Mixamp would be a good option for X2s as they really aren't hard to drive and it's built for console use.  Plus Dolby headphone is better then SBX.  
  
 I own an X7 and it took me a while to come around on that last point but it's true.  It's a shame there is no way to get DH with a higher powered amp/dac.  Still though mixamp is fine for X2s.


----------



## canthearyou

jthom320 said:


> Unless they added in SBX for console that's not going to work for him.
> 
> Mixamp would be a good option for X2s as they really aren't hard to drive and it's built for console use.  Plus Dolby headphone is better then SBX.
> 
> I own an X7 and it took me a while to come around on that last point but it's true.  It's a shame there is no way to get DH with a higher powered amp/dac.  Still though mixamp is fine for X2s.


 
 SBX takes a stereo audio stream and creates a virtual surround environment. It's not as precise as 5.1 or 7.1 virtual surround sound, but pretty good nonetheless.
  
 I have both and the clarity and power of the G5 makes for a better gaming experience IMO.
  
 If Creative does release DD decoding it'll be even better.


----------



## lenroot77

canthearyou said:


> SBX takes a stereo audio stream and creates a virtual surround environment. It's not as precise as 5.1 or 7.1 virtual surround sound, but pretty good nonetheless.
> 
> I have both and the clarity and power of the G5 makes for a better gaming experience IMO.
> 
> If Creative does release DD decoding it'll be even better.




Agree have both also and the audio clarity and power of the G5 makes up for the stereo SBX. The "stereo SBX" does provide pretty good positional accuracy. I was testing this yesterday with the cosmodrome waterfall on destiny. Unless one has golden ears and is uber competitive the stereo SBX processing is probably sufficient for most in my opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SBX does the same exact thing as Dolby Headphone. Take 5.1 and mix it down to stereo with a surround DSP with the information taken from the 5.1. Just a different sound/algorithm. What jthom320 is saying is that atm that device with SBX that works on the PS4 isn't correctly downconverting to proper SBX, which is why he recommends the Mixamp instead.

As for which is better, to me, even if Dolby Headphone sounded half as good, the sheer fact that it's rear positional cues are more distinct and much easier to identify make it so much better for gaming, since no matter how clear something is, if it takes an extra moment to understand that something is behind you, those who can IMMEDIATELY identify rear cues have a distinct advantage. You can all bitch and moan about how DH sounds processed, while us DH users can enjoy destroying everyone else with ease. Not that I'm using DH atm. I been on SBX for a long time now, much to my dismay. Whenever I use the Xonar U3 for PC gaming, it's like opening up an extra sense compared to my X7, it's not even funny. I just get too lazy to constantly attach the device, since I'm constantly lugging my laptop around.

It honestly is no comparison when it comes to the surround effect. DH absolutely destroys SBX in correct sound placement. SBX still has the tendency of THX Tru Studio in that not only are rear cues harder to identify, but sound placement at (for example) locations like 1-2 o clock, still sound like they're almost at 3 o' clock instead. There are audio dead zones where SBX can't seem to accurately place even as you're looking at the object/thing causing the sound cue on screen.

I can look at say another player shooting a gun on screen, yet the audio will make it sound like he's to my side as opposed to just slightly off center.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> SBX does the same exact thing as Dolby Headphone. Take 5.1 and mix it down to stereo with a surround DSP with the information taken from the 5.1. Just a different sound/algorithm. What jthom320 ios saying is that atm that device devices with SBX that works on the PS4 isn't correctly downconverting to proper SBX, which is why he recommends the Mixamp instead.
> 
> As for which is better, to me, even if Dolby Headphone sounded half as good, the sheer fact that it's rear positional cues are more distinct and much easier to identify make it so much better for gaming, since no matter how clear something is, if it takes an extra moment to understand that something is behind you, those who can IMMEDIATELY identify rear cues have a distinct advantage. You can all bitch and moan about how DH sounds processed, while us DH users can enjoy destroying everyone else with ease. Not that I'm using DH atm. I been on SBX for a long time now, much to my dismay. Whenever I use the Xonar U3 for PC gaming, it's like opening up an extra sense compared to my X7, it's not even funny. I just get too lazy to constantly attach the device, since I'm constantly lugging my laptop around.
> 
> ...




Oh I'm by no means saying SBX is better than Dolby headphone I'm saying I don't find there to be too great of a difference between SBX being applied to a stereo signal from the ps4 (G5) or a digital signal from the ps4 (x7). 

SBX for sure has holes in it and they are very easy to observe.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard the G5's version of SBX. How different is it from proper SBX? Is it the difference between proper DH vs Dolby Pro Logic II converted into that pseudo-DH?

I ask because even when DPLII version of DH still has fantastic surround capabilities (the Wii sounded great with the Mixamp even though it was limited to Pro Logic II), though it sounds even more processed than standard DH which is already quite processed sounding.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> I haven't heard the G5's version of SBX. How different is it from proper SBX? Is it the difference between proper DH vs Dolby Pro Logic II converted into that pseudo-DH?
> 
> I ask because even when DPLII version of DH still has fantastic surround capabilities (the Wii sounded great with the Mixamp even though it was limited to Pro Logic II), though it sounds even more processed than standard DH which is already quite processed sounding.




I think it's well done. At the cosmodrome waterfall I'm able to closes my eyes and pick my direction out each time. As u stated SBX is very muddy in the corners so it's not the pinpoint accuracy one may experience with DH . With that said though when I've done this with x7 is very close to the exact findings even with it properly down mixed over toslink.


----------



## lenroot77

BTW
Received these today... Man they are amazing for 39 bucks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wow, that's a hell of a price.

For $39, there is NOTHING better than the CAL. Definitely. Even If not for gaming, the CAL: is an AMAZING movie, music headphone.

Hell, it's still a contender at $100, IMHO.


----------



## Sam21

I have the CAL!2 and reviews say it is has more bass compared to the original CAL! and everything else is about the same....MLE, Have you ever had the chance to compare the CAL! with a CAL!2 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I haven't heard the CAL 2. Bass is the last thing the CAL needs, as it already had plenty to satisfy even mild bassheads.


----------



## Sam21

Guess I should buy it then...that and the Ultrasone 15-G, I dig Smaller, more comfortable headphones nowadays. I have realized that comfort matters the most specially for longer gaming sessions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

15G is suuuuuuuper comfy. Love it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

my CAL cost me 19€ from Amazon. Using it at work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I still have a CAL in the house. It doesn't get any use (it's my stepfather's, who also has an M50LE he uses for airplane use), but it's there for any reason. 



FINALLY FINISHED MY CREATIVE JAM REVIEW. Just waiting on Creative to reply to see if there is anything they'd like to personally address before I submit. As I said before, this is gonna be the first review without scoring of any kind, (other than letting people know of quality/quantity of bass/mid/treble. So if you wanna know if it's good or not, read the damn review. 

It should hopefully be up in the next few days, depending on when they respond (they're quick to respond to my messages).


----------



## dakanao

mad lust envy said:


> Wow, that's a hell of a price.
> 
> For $39, there is NOTHING better than the CAL. Definitely. Even If not for gaming, the CAL: is an AMAZING movie, music headphone.
> 
> Hell, it's still a contender at $100, IMHO.


 
 True. Hell, I even think the CAL is better than some respected $250 closed headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously. I'd have never expected such a stellar headphone for less than $50. In fact, I thought it'd be discontinued with the price going upwards, not down.


----------



## Change is Good

The SHP9500 sold for less than $50 last year.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> The SHP9500 sold for less than $50 last year.




I saw one on the classifieds for 60 if anyone is looking!

I pulled out my DSS this afternoon with the CAL's... It's been so long since I heard DH. Did some A/B comparison...It really does stomp a hole in SBX!


----------



## rudyae86

I also got a pair of Cals for like 45 bucks new from jet.com
  
 Best 45 bucks I have spent so far. But they are now in their box while  I still use my X2s lol
  
 Edit: Forgot to ask....
  
 Anyone in here have purchased a Sennheiser G4ME One headset?
  
 I bought one, like-new from Amazon warehouse deals and have been using it. Seems like a HD558 when comparing it to an HD598. 
  
 Only reason I got it because it was dirt cheap, and still is on Amazon warehouse deals.
  
 only thing that concerns me about these headsets is that the bass, when the bass hits hard, wether its music or an explosion on Battlefield 4....the bass or low end sounds a bit distorted.
  
 Im not sure if thats normal for either an HD558 or this headset.......My HD598 doesnt do that at all.

 Would like to hear some feedback from those that own an HD558 or G4ME One headset. As of now, I think I will be returning it. Really wanted to use this headset for PS4 since I want to start babying my Fidelio X2....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dynamic driver in an open back enclosure can tend to distort when bass hits too hard. That being said, the 598 should be doing something similar. If it isn't then something may be up with your headset and be distorting bass in a non typical manner.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Dynamic driver in an open back enclosure can tend to distort when bass hits too hard. That being said, the 598 should be doing something similar. If it isn't then something may be up with your headset and be distorting bass in a non typical manner.


 
  
  
 well the 598 does not really distort as I have described. I would probably have to raise the volume even higher to start noticing it. I think the 598 would buzz when the bass hits hard.
  
 as for the G4ME One headset, only the left side distorts, its like a buzz followed by some distortion. When I was playing BF4, everything would sound just fine until like some crazy explosion would occur nearby, like a tank or tanks blowing up next  to me or something. 
  
 when playing a song that has lots of bass and sub bass, during those intense parts of the song, there is a slight distortion or buzz, even when the volume is at  healthy listening volumes. At first I didnt notice it but then after critical listening the last few days....it became obvious. Of course, this doesnt happen for every song or all the time in a game...only when the bass hits hard.
  
 all while comparing it to my 598 and even the x2, which can obviously handle those low end frequencies
  
 EDIT: Well, I confirm that the G4ME One headset cant handle bass properly and distorts it. Its not that Im expecting X2 bass, I know that....but the HD598 handle the bass cleanly with no distortion to be noticed. I tried them on my laptop and on my PS4 and on my main Gaming PC......I get the same results with the headset, with distortion and clean and probably better sound with the HD598.
  
 Im starting to think that the G4ME One isnt based of the PC360 or PC363D headsets, probably not even based of the HD558.

 or they could just b defective. I ordered these headsets like 5 times already from AWD in like new condition, hoping to get a distortion free G4ME One but evidently, seems like all of them have this problem and also seems like AWD is selling them so cheap because they had many of them.
  
 So far 88 dollars for the very good condition G4ME Ones....
  
  
 or I could have just bad luck
  
 and before anyone says that why not just buy a modmic and attach it to the 598, well I really wanted to avoid the cable clutter and have a cheap all in one solution for the PS4.
  
 Unless I can attach a vmoda mic to the hd598, I will keep searching for that headset that sounds at least similar to the 598.....
  
 sigh


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> and before anyone says that why not just buy a modmic and attach it to the 598, well I really wanted to avoid the cable clutter and have a cheap all in one solution for the PS4.
> 
> Unless I can attach a vmoda mic to the hd598, I will keep searching for that headset that sounds at least similar to the 598.....
> 
> sigh


 
 I have HD598 together with a modmic. Not that messy if You tie the cables together. But if You want to use the BoomPro instead, it is entirely possible (although will require some work)


----------



## Ben Che

Awesome guide, thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I still have a CAL in the house. It doesn't get any use (it's my stepfather's, who also has an M50LE he uses for airplane use), but it's there for any reason.
> 
> FINALLY FINISHED MY CREATIVE JAM REVIEW. Just waiting on Creative to reply to see if there is anything they'd like to personally address before I submit. As I said before, this is gonna be the first review without scoring of any kind, (other than letting people know of quality/quantity of bass/mid/treble. So if you wanna know if it's good or not, read the damn review.
> 
> It should hopefully be up in the next few days, depending on when they respond (they're quick to respond to my messages).




Hey, let them know I said hi!
I still think the review will stand well/better without a numbered score, it's all in the description 

Some day I need to give the original CAL! a listen, compare to the CAL!2 I have. Tho I'm also curious about Ultrasone 15G vs Phillips SPH 9500 for a comfort showdown, despite overall my preference for over-ear (my fiancé prefers on-ear),


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> I have HD598 together with a modmic. Not that messy if You tie the cables together. But if You want to use the BoomPro instead, it is entirely possible (although will require some work)




Extension adapter? I still think the boomPro really only comes into it's own as convenient so long as your device has a TRRS output, so all the game, chat, and mic audio are routed to the same box. All the current gen consoles separate them, so... PITA compared to PC gaming, alright? The lengths we go through to avoid PC Driver/configuration/error/troubleshooting issues!


----------



## Change is Good

I love the simplicity of the 9500, Boompro, and 5.8 (assuming one has the usb PS chat cable). I actually thought about picking up the X7 and USB dongle for a great price, until I realized I won't be sitting back on my couch anymore if I did so.

Edit: and with the adapter I have for the 400i, it makes that setup just as simple with the Boompro and 5.8


----------



## Jerex93

rudyae86 said:


> I also got a pair of Cals for like 45 bucks new from jet.com
> 
> Best 45 bucks I have spent so far. But they are now in their box while  I still use my X2s lol
> 
> ...


 
 I also have the Sennheiser G4ME One headset and experience distortion with heavy bass. I was tinkering with them to see if I could discover what was causing the distortion and found that by removing the plastic/cloth cover that protects the drivers stops the bass distortion from happening. I think it may be the plastic part of the driver cover rattling against the headset from heavy bass but I’m not positive. I'm not sure if your problem is the same as mine, but may be worth investigating. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out a way to stop the distortion on mine because using them without the cloth protecting the drivers is not really a viable solution as that seems it may lead to driver damage and is not comfortable.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Extension adapter? I still think the boomPro really only comes into it's own as convenient so long as your device has a TRRS output, so all the game, chat, and mic audio are routed to the same box. All the current gen consoles separate them, so... PITA compared to PC gaming, alright? The lengths we go through to avoid PC Driver/configuration/error/troubleshooting issues!



BoomPro comes with a trrs > 2x trs adapter so no problem here. Guy who originally posted this photo removed the lock from inside the headphones and then used a 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter.

Also, Tritton Katana comes out in April. While it would be really fun to just buy and mod them to use any headphones with the built in receiver, they retail at 250$ which is a lot to me. So unless somebody wants to chip in or I find a better job this will have to go on hold. My job is anything but good-paying.


----------



## Change is Good

There's a 'like new' 9500 currently being sold by a third party Amazon seller (fulfilled). Thought I'd share if anyone here is interested. I know I was late to the 9500 party, but I'm damn sure glad I came across one.
  
 Edit: Price is $64


----------



## Fura T7

Hey, im starting to look at a mixamp but I don't know which one is the 2013 mixamp pro, is it gen 1 or 2?


----------



## Yethal

fura t7 said:


> Hey, im starting to look at a mixamp but I don't know which one is the 2013 mixamp pro, is it gen 1 or 2?



Black one with 3 buttons on top


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## Fura T7

So the mixamp pro 2013 edition is the one that comes with the astro a30?


----------



## lenroot77

Mixamp TR question... I see there is some sort of stream output. Can the output be configured to line out sound to a separate headphone amp?


----------



## Evshrug

fura t7 said:


> So the mixamp pro 2013 edition is the one that comes with the astro a30?



The A30 has been repackaged with many different mixamps, my 5.8 mixamp came with an A30.


----------



## stoke1863

Ive ordered a K712 pro today and sending back mt DT990, I was picking between the K712 and the HD650, but your guide swung it to K712 due to me gaming more than listening to music.
  
 Ive also got a Samson Go USB desk mic, i can recommend it for £29


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hello is there a External Microphone with Volume Control?


----------



## Stayle

Hello guys, I have a question, I wanna buy a headphone but i don't know which is the best for me,atleast the guide helped me a lot  !
 My choice are between these 3 headphones : AKG K702, Sennheiser HD 598 and Beyerdynamic DT 770.
 the main use is mainly for listening to music and a little bit for gaming.
 I know the AKG is mainly neutral et the Sennheiser rather dark, but dont know the best for music and a little bit for gaming.
 Should I buy a mic or a modmic for a high quality voice ?
 If the mic is better, which will be the best for me ? Need a quality voice.
 I want it did not hear too much outside noise that my voice.
 I just know the AKG P120 Condenser Mic, but it is pretty expensive i just could put between 50-110 dollars in.
 I am a beginner in this field XD so i ask to you guys thank you for advance  !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alright guys, I've updated the first page with the TH-600, and Creative JAM. The JAM is the FIRST review on the first page. Also the first one without the old scoring system. Added notes to the update so you'd understand.


----------



## shuto77

stayle said:


> Hello guys, I have a question, I wanna buy a headphone but i don't know which is the best for me,atleast the guide helped me a lot  !
> My choice are between these 3 headphones : AKG K702, Sennheiser HD 598 and Beyerdynamic DT 770.
> the main use is mainly for listening to music and a little bit for gaming.
> I know the AKG is mainly neutral et the Sennheiser rather dark, but dont know the best for music and a little bit for gaming.
> ...




If your primary use for these is music, you need to decide what sound signature you like and how you will amp the headphones. The HD598 is the safest pick, decent at everything, but great at nothing. It's also rather easy to drive. It's very good for gaming and good for most genres of music (unless you like Dat Bass).


----------



## Stayle

Thank you for your answer. I know the sennheiser is a good headphone but i think it is not neutral at all, the AKG is right ?
 Yeah primary the music and secondary gaming.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

the HD598 are f great for gaming and music,you cant go wrong with HD598.


----------



## shuto77

stayle said:


> Thank you for your answer. I know the sennheiser is a good headphone but i think it is not neutral at all, the AKG is right ?
> Yeah primary the music and secondary gaming.




I used to own the Sennheiser HD598. It's pretty darn neutral, especially considering its price point. I had an AKG K7XX, which is a bit darker than the K702. Both were a bit dry and boring for my musical tastes, but both are considered very good. I'm not sure if the K702 is more neutral, as I've read it's a tad on the bright side. 

They're both good for gaming. You should check out their respective threads for better insights on their musical performance.


----------



## Stayle

Thank you for your advice. Well both are good , but atleast the AKG is more beautiful in the aesthetic side in my point of view.
 Any idea  the quality of the Beyerdynamic DT 770 for the music and gaming?


----------



## Stayle

Yeah I saw it in amazon, more people bought the sennheiser rather than the AKG or the Beyerdynamic DT 770.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

can anybody recomend me a good 3.5mm to 2.5mm adapter to use it with a External Microphone to plug it to my xbox 360 controller?thanks in advance.


----------



## Change is Good

I was asked in the 9500 thread to try and explain how I changed the pads and such. Here is my post for anyone, here. who may be wondering the same.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717690/philips-shp9500-discussion-thread/660#post_12348812


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since I always update here (nad because lots of people never check the first page), may as well:



*Creative Sound Blaster JAM*


Price as of Feb 2016: $40-$50 range



Spoiler: Review



The Creative Sound Blaster JAM was a personal interest of mine after a long search for something something convenient, comfortable, and budget conscious. Convenient in that it would be wireless, easy to use, and easy to transport. Comfort in that it could be worn all day with little issues, as well as my personal need to have padding that isn't leather of any kind, whether real, synthetic, etc. Budget conscious in that it wouldn't break the $100 cap I placed for budget tier headphones.

The JAM, more or less, met all of these requirements. I was also treated with a great surprise in finding out that the JAM had USB capabilities which, accompanied by the JAM software, allows users to tweak the sound to their preference with a host of presets and other sound options. The JAM feels like owning two headphones instead of one.



*Build Quality*

The JAM is unsurprisingly plastic all over. All matte black with the exception of the cup's exterior center surface area which are glossy black with a printed design on each cup.

From top to bottom:

Starting with the headband, it is as basic as headbands come, with a textured finish on the plastic, and absolutely no padding to speak of. It's hard to add any more about the headband, as it really is as barebones as it comes. Unfortunately, this is a detriment to it's overall comfort, which would've greatly benefited from some minor padding.

The headband gives way to thin, but seemingly durable plastic extension arms that don't have notches or markers for size indication, so you'll have to look at a mirror if you absolutely must have both sides at the same length of extension.

On to the cups which each hold a long bar that connects to the extension arms and also identify the headphone as the Creative Sound Blaster JAM. Unfortunately, it keeps the cups from having any sort of swivel or collapsing mechanism, though the headphone is small enough to make this a non-issue for most practical situations.

The right cup houses all the controls:

1. Power: Pressing down the center for a few seconds turns the JAM on/off.

2. Pairing: Holding down the center while it's off until the small led flashes will put the JAM into Bluetooth pairing mode.

3. Volume: The volume up/down buttons are located on the back of the outer cup. They are quite responsive, with the JAM giving an audible beep once volume is maxed out.

4. Bass: The bass boost button is located towards the front of the cup. The button is easy to press, though there is no indicator or confirmation that the boost is on/off outside of the audible difference when listening to the JAM. The bass boost button has no function when using the JAM in USB mode. I would've liked an audio cue indicating bass boost was on/off.

5. NFC: The JAM has NFC capabilities, though I wasn't able to test it in time for this review.

6. Micro USB: On the bottom of the right cup is the micro USB input for charging (and to turn the JAM into a USB headset on PC).

7. Omnidirectional Microphone: Buried within the right cup is the omnidirectional microphone. Unfortunately, as a console gamer, I was unable to test the microphone/chat capabilities, as the JAM does not pair up with the PS4's bluetooth connectivity, nor does the chat function work connected through USB on PS4.

Last, are the pads which are made of circular foam reminiscent of the Koss KSC-75, Porta Pro pads, and Sennheiser PX-100II, if a bit larger overall. The pads have an extra amount of plushness to it compared to those other headphones, and are therefore a bit more comfortable for longer sessions. Unfortunately, the pads are not removable.

The Creative Soundblaster JAM is not a technical marvel in terms of ruggedness, design, or durability, but on the positive side, its basic aesthetic and matte plastic finish will curb the need to baby it with extra protection. Unless you are a monster that throws things around haphazardly, or loves to bend things the wrong way, I don't see how the JAM could break from normal use. I have tossed the JAM in my bag with wild abandon for months, and I have absolutely no fear of finding the JAM in pieces. It's biggest detriments in build quality are the lack of headband padding, and the lack of swivel/folding mechanisms. One size fits all, for better or worse.



*Accessories*

The JAM is devoid of any actual accessories outside of a very nice micro USB cable for charging and USB headset capabilities. While being robust, with good strain reliefs, it is fairly short at 1 meter, so I'd suggest having a longer USB cable if using the JAM as a USB headset. 



*Comfort*

Supra-aural (on ear) headphones have always been a hit or miss endeavor when it comes to comfort. Personally, I find supra-aural designs to be the least diverse in terms of comfort. Most on ear headphones fall either on the very comfortable side, or the hideously uncomfortable side. Thankfully, the JAM sits on the comfortable side of the comfort spectrum.

Starting with weight, the JAM is decidedly on the very light side of things, to the point where I would find myself forgetting I had them on and felt like I was using my venerable Koss clip ons instead. I expected a bit of heft due to the wireless components, but was pleasantly surprised that its wireless aspects didn't become a factor in its overall weight.

The headband is essentially the only real point of discomfort due to a lack of padding. On my shaved head, I can certainly feel the plastic digging into my scalp, which had me searching for a temporary solution; a sock that I cut up and wrapped around the headband at least until a permanent fix presented itself. Once I fixed the headband issue, the JAM lept up closer to extraordinary levels of comfort, though still bested by the Ultrasone 15G's magnificent comfort in headband padding, pad plushness, weight, and overall pleasantries.

The JAM's foam ear pads start off itchy (as usual of foam pads), but after a very brief period of adjusting to the pads, they become extremely comfortable (and no longer itchy). They remain cool for long periods of time, and the subtle plushness keeps the JAM from pinching the ears.

Clamping force is moderate to slightly below moderate, keeping the JAM in place without squeezing the head uncomfortably. This is worthy of noting, as on ear headphones live or die by the level of clamp. Many great on ear headphones have lost the battle of usability due to clamp being too weak or too strong. The JAM hits a sweet spot. Fantastic for a budget headset.

Its second comfort issue after the headband (but far less of an issue) may come from the complete lack of swivel, which may cause the drivers to sit in a bad angle for certain ear shapes, though I personally didn't have any issues as I was able to find a good spot for the drivers to rest on my ears with no discomfort.

The JAM's small form factor and moderately low clamp allows it to be worn around the neck quite comfortably when not in use.

In the end, I found the JAM's comfort factor to be quite high, despite some gripes with the headband overall. Find a solution to the headband, and you're likely to find the JAM to be the best headphone in your repertoire to use for longer sessions.



*Isolation/Leakage*

The JAM's isolation and noise leakage are both fairly average, if slightly above. The foam pads don't exactly keep sound in/out, though the closed back design helps mitigate excess noise. While average, I wouldn't say it's anything remotely bad, and I would still be fine recommending the JAM for all but the strictest isolation/leakage demands. While jamming out to music, it isn't easy to be distracted by outside noise. Leakage fares a little worse than isolation, though I wouldn't expect the sound to travel far from one room to another. I'd have full confidence in using the JAM at night without disturbing anyone in any other room, perhaps even the same room depending on volume.



*Sound*

Bearing in mind that this is a budget, wireless headset, I found myself quite pleased by it's sound in general, despite the technical limitations. I had very little to no expectations on the JAM's overall sound quality. The only expectation I hoped for was for the JAM to function, and not sound like an utter failure. In this regard (and many others), the JAM exceeded my expectation.

Reviewing the JAM's aspects of sound is a bit tricky as it is a headset that basically wants you to tinker with its modes. Bass Boost on the wireless mode, and the USB mode's JAM software Control Panel with its SBX Profiles, as well as various sound enhancements: Surround, Bass Boost, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart Volume, Dialog Plus, and Equalizer.

I'll mainly focus on the Bluetooth/Wireless mode with Bass Boost ON as I assume this will be the mode that vast majority of people will use with the JAM (as well as my main method of use). I'll touch a bit on its other modes as well (wireless with no Bass Boost, and USB SBX Control Panel.)

Note: USB software requires the software to be downloaded directly from Creative at:

Click Here

The SBX Control Panel only functions properly while the JAM is OFF and then plugged in via USB. If the JAM is on wireless mode and then plugged in, the software will show all the options but will not affect the wireless mode's sound in any way other than volume, as the software volume is tied to Windows volume mixer.



*Bass*

Quality: Decent (wireless without bass boost, USB mode), Subpar (wireless w/bass boost)
Quantity: Without bass boost - Slightly below neutral, bass boost - neutral lower to mid bass, emphasized upper bass 

Without any bass boosting, the JAM is a tad bass deficient in both wireless and USB modes, though not lacking in texture. It's understandable why Creative decided on adding a bass boost option, as a subtle boost is all that would be needed to fill out the sound nicely.

The level of bass varies on a per track basis, where tracks more reliant on bass will sound just shy of bass neutral, and tracks not reliant on bass sounding more bass anemic. Depending on how much bass your source has, you may feel the JAM to sound a bit too thin, or just fine if just a hint in need of some warmth.

Wireless Bass Boost:

As you toggle the bass boost on, the sound signature immediately turns noticeably warmer/ more full. The bass boost seems to affect everything from 40hz up to 300hz, but its main range of effect is at about 80hz-200hz. I personally feel the best area to focus on bass is 30-70hz, which isn't changed much here. Upper mid bass to high bass/lower midrange is noticeably bumped, though the deeper, chest thumping bass is largely unaffected. The result of the bass boost is not so much turning the JAM into a bassy headphone, but rather a fuller, richer one.

The downside of the bass boost is that the bass becomes a bit distorted and noisy/grainy, though I expect most people would take the tradeoff of pure fidelity for an improved sound signature despite those drawbacks.

Even with the added bass and bass distortion, the bass doesn't negatively affect the JAM's overall clarity in the middle to upper ranges. There is some lower mid distortion, but that as far as its effect travels. Whereas many budget headphones sound muted, muffled, and dronish, with boomy bass that impacts the sound as a whole, the JAM remains generally even keeled.

The bass decay is on the snappy side, which I will assume is most likely due to the pad's porous nature. A lack of total seal causes bass to dissipate quickly in other headphones, and I wouldn't doubt it being the same here. A snappy, agile bass is usually reserved for higher end headphones, whereas budget headphone can either be completely bass deficient, or utterly messy and sluggish with muffled bass.

Wired USB mode:

As mentioned before, the bass boost button doesn't work in USB mode (you'll hear a brief sound as if it changed, but the sound is not affected), and you're left with the SBX Control Panel Bass slider, as well as Crystalizer and Equalizer which can affect the bass quantity and quality.

The Bass slider has a frequency crossover at 80hz, which I feel is generally the target area that Creative focused on when using the Bass Boost button in wireless mode, albeit with a much smaller range of effect. The Control Panel's bass slider is subtle at default, though I feel leaving this option off and manually adjusting the Equalizer at lower frequencies is more beneficial in the long run.

The Crystalizer has an effect on both bass and treble ranges the most, and I personally felt the 30% default setting was a very subtle, but beneficial enhancement to the sound. Just a minor change in energetic delivery. Raising this slider alters the sound and severely recessed the midrange and general details. Lowering it makes the effect utterly negligible.

The Equalizer makes a dramatic change for the JAM's bass, particularly altering the 31hz and 62hz sliders make the biggest change. These two sliders affect the main bass areas, and can easily offset the deficiencies the JAM has by default. I also found that adjusting the bass through the equalizer yields better sound quality than the bass boost button with much less distortion and grain.

Final Bass Impressions:

Without alteration, the bass is snappy, if a bit light, and low in volume next to the midrange. It is textured, and warm in tone. Wireless bass boosting trades off the quality for extra quantity and warmth. The bass boosted wirelessly is prone to distort with a bit of grain and fuzz, though I find the JAM much more enjoyable with the bass boost, as it lacks musicality otherwise.

In USB mode, I found the JAM's bass to perform its best, especially dialing the equalizer to my liking ( a 4db extension to 31hz and 3db to 62hz, leaving the rest of the frequencies alone). This more or less offset what I found lacking in the JAM's inherent sound signature,, without the added grain of the wireless mode's bass boost.

You either take the extra freedom of Bluetooth with it's grainy bass, or the tweakable control panel for some richer, more potent, and much clearer bass in USB/wired mode. Either way, I find the JAM's bass more than good enough for my various uses.



*Midrange*

Quality: Good without bass boost, good with bass boost (if a little less refined)
Quantity: Generally neutral forwardness to slightly recessed upper midrange 

The JAM's midrange is surprisingly well behaved all the way from the lower mids up to the treble. There are some minor dips and peaks, but nothing garish and ear piercing, which can't be said about some headphones costing 10 times as much. Despite a relative safety in keeping the midrange frequencies from becoming fatiguing, there is no veil or stifling of the frequencies, keeping the JAM energetic and lively.

It's somewhat neutral in tonality throughout the full midrange, with a warm lower midrange when bass boost is on (which is the bass boost's biggest effect.).

In all cases, the midrange is enjoyably in the mix, without any truly terrible hotspots.

The upper midrange has some recession compared to the earlier sections (notable dip at 4khz), but not significantly so.

The decision to maintain the bass slightly south of neutral without bass boost pays off quite well in the midrange, keeping the bass from bleeding into and smothering the midrange. Boosting the bass distorts a bit in the lower midrange, reducing the clarity and quality a bit, but not enough to recommend turning off bass boost. It keeps the JAM musical and engaging; a tradeoff I prefer over sheer technical prowess. A reminder being that the bass boost on the JAM doesn't actually make the JAM bass heavy, but mostly adds richness in the lower midrange, with a more natural presence of bass, as compared to being a bit lean without bass boost.



*Treble*

Quality: Good
Quantity: strongest point at 7khz and 9khz

The JAM's treble, like the midrange is lively, without being too prominent or piercing. At it's worst is the peak at around 7khz on my pair, which is an overstatement, as it's not what I'd consider problematic, so much as identifying it as the strongest point in the JAM's treble range. The prominence at 9khz is far from problematic.

I don't hear any truly horrendous artifacts or ringing that I'd want to single out and address. Creative did a fine job in tuning the treble range overall. No extra ear shattering emphasis, nor excessive smoothing of any frequencies.

The treble range aids the JAM's tactility and impact.



*Soundstage*

The JAM's soundstage is one of it's weaker aspects, which I assume is part of the reason why the SBX Control Panel has a surround slider option for it, despite no multi-channel benefit compared to typical SBX Control panels which allow 5.1 or 7.1 to be downmixed to surround for headphones.

In its default state without surround, the soundstage is decidedly closed and pretty much remains inside the head space. Unless I'm gaming in virtual surround, I'm not exactly critical of headphone soundstaging, especially in stereo. As long as stereo separation is good, and keeps details from blurring together, I have little to complain about. The JAM's soundstage is good enough for my simple uses of casual media use outside of gaming.

USB Mode Surround On:

With the SBX Control Panel's Surround Option enabled, the soundstage can vary significantly, at the expense of detail/imaging clarity. The soundstage opens up considerably at 100% Surround, but details become blurred and less defined. For music use, I wholeheartedly recommend leaving Surround OFF, but for other forms of media like TV shows, Youtube videos, and casual gaming, the surround option can greatly benefit immersion. I personally would only either use no surround for music, and maxed out surround for other media, as anything in between is a bit too subtle a change for my tastes.

The surround option is far from how well it works in true surround downmixing found in devices like the Creative X7, Creative Recon USB, Astrogaming Mixamp, and other popular gaming devices that downmix true surround into virtual surround for headphones. That being said, it's still a considerable benefit for the JAM if you absolutely need some space between you and the action.



*Clarity*

The JAM's clarity is at the mercy of the user and its various sound altering options. From the bass boost in it's wireless Bluetooth mode, to the various presets and slider options in the SBX Control Panel when using the JAM in USB mode, the JAM can more or less be slightly tailored to sound how you'd like, if kept within reason and driver abilities.

With absolute no options turned on in either wireless or USB modes, the JAM is a surprisingly competent headphone in terms of clarity at this price level, though at the expense of musicality and low range presence.

Toggling the bass boost in wireless mode will reduce low end clarity with some mild bass distortion, though the general midrange and treble remain about the same as no bass boost.

For being a wireless, budget conscious headset, I was left pleased by it's clarity and generally linear tonality by default. It wouldn't be my first choice in terms of headphones I'd choose for clarity and microdetail, but for it's versatility and practicality, I honestly can't fault the JAM. It's more than a competent performer for my needs, and I don't feel Creative made sacrifices in sound just to enhance the JAM's usability.



*Sound Signature*

Tonality: Its raw tonality non-bass boosted tonality is a bit thin, and hint cold after it's warm, lower midrange, though not without a basic grounding of fullness in its impact and delivery. Because of this, I find it difficult to identify the JAM as either slightly warm or not in general. The Bass Boost definitely tilts the tonal balance towards the warm side, however.

Bass: Bass is the JAM's weak point with nearly non-existent sub bass to a meager mid bass section. Engaging the bass boost, immediately fills out a bit of the mid bass, and warms up the upper bass. Sub bass, while still weak, becomes present.

Midrange: The JAM's warm, lower midrange is a bit of an oasis in an otherwise thin, neutral tonal sea. Dry, and bit thin of note otherwise. Without bass boost, nearly the entirety of the midrange is pleasantly neutral to forward, with a bit of recession in the upper midrange (around 4khz). Engaging bass boost fills up the low midrange even moreso, into a more fluid, rich tone, though the emphasis down in the lower midrange causes the central to upper midrange to take a slight step back in its place.

Treble: The treble is well behaved and ever present without becoming screechy or fatiguing. There is a slight recession at the 10khz point, cutting off a potential source of sharpness (and possibly air). The 6-7khz and 9khz range is the JAM's treble points of emphasis in terms of quantity.

Soundstage: Closed, stereo linearity, decent separation

The JAM's sound signature is hard to easily identify due to its intention of being used with various sound options. I feel it can't be judged harshly at it's default state of being rather flat and not very musical, as the JAM comes alive with it's wireless bass boost option, as well as with its full suite of sound features in USB mode.



*Bluetooth/Wireless*

Otherwise known as wireless mode in this review, the JAM's Bluetooth (4.1) capabilities is very good. It's quick to pair and connect, and outside of some random bouts of freezing (where it feels like the audio is repeatedly being paused and then played for a few seconds), the Bluetooth does not drop or disconnect. The freezing issue is random and has nothing to do with the range from the source to the JAM. perhaps a sort of signal interference.

Bluetooth quality is very good, with no perceivable noise or hiss of any kind. The Bass Boost option is it's major shortcoming in terms of clarity, as it adds some grain and distortion as the bass is stressed. Not always, but enough to note. Again, it's not bad enough to the point where I'd use the JAM without the Bass Boost engaged. The benefit of its added warmth outweighs the grain in the bass, personally.

The wireless range is quite long and generous, as I was able to listen to the JAM from one end of my house to the other, with some walls in between. No drops whatsoever.

Battery life is rated at 12 hours, and from personal experience, I wouldn't doubt realistic numbers being quite close to that. I've only made a habit of charging every few days just for the sake of it, and not because I felt I was approaching a fully drained battery. It is simply fantastic.

Sound quality is good enough in wireless mode to where I wouldn't have any real reason to change to USB mode, despite it's extra bit of refinement and additional sound options.

Note: For PS4 gamers, the JAM does not work with the PS4's bluetooth connectivity (a common issue with most non-PS4 specific bluetooth devices).



*USB Mode*

To clarify on the JAM's USB mode, it is essentially like turning the JAM into a whole other headset. Using the JAM in USB mode opens up JAM to a host of options in functionality and sound modifications compared to the JAM's wireless mode.

After opening the Sound Blaster JAM software, you're greeted by SBX Profile: Music, Movies, Gaming, each being presets to the software's various sound options which can be accessed by choosing one of the presets and clicking on edit in the top right corner of the window. I recommend choosing any of the three main presets and clicking on edit, to better tailor the sound to fit your needs.

Surround: this mode will reduce clarity and definition of sound effects for an extra sense of space/added stereo soundstage. I suggest leaving this off when listening to music, and using it with media like gaming and movies.

Crystalizer: will enhance the lower and upper ranges for extra dynamics, but will reduce the clarity in the general midrange spectrum. It more or less recesses the midrange the more the slider leans towards 100%. I personally like the effect for the JAM in it's default 30% setting, as it is quite subtle, and benefits musicality.

Bass: will mainly affect the 80hz range, which I feel isn't an ideal area to focus on boosting. This option by default is at 15% and is rather subtle. Instead, I recommend manually adjusting the 31hz and 62hz Equalizer settings if you want to dial in the bass.

Smart Volume: Per Creative, it adjusts the loudness audio automatically to reduce sudden/random volume changes. I personally leave this off.

Dialog Plus: Per Creative, it enhances vocal clarity in movies. Otherwise known as a way to boost the vocal midrange if you're not familiar with equalizing. I'm personally not someone who equalizes anything but the bass (I'll very rarely add if there is too little, reduce if there is too much), so I also leave this option off.

Equalizer: On the top right of the SBX Pro Studio window (with all the previous sound options), is the Equalizer button. Clicking on it opens up the Equalizer, which has various presets (Classical being the only preset with a bass emphasis, and only at the 62hz range).

Here is where I suggest tweaking the bass, instead of using the bass slider in the main Pro Studio window.

Being able to tweak the JAM's sound so heavily is the main benefit of using it in USB mode, outside of a marginal sound quality improvement. You have to decide whether you want to lose the freedom of being wireless for these benefits. I personally prefer to just use the JAM wirelessly, despite the loss of so many options.



*Gaming*

Personally, the JAM isn't an ideal choice for my main gaming simply due to the lack of proper virtual surround. It's strictly limited to stereo, with pseudo surround (expanded stereo), which is a far cry from proper SBX Surround, or DSPs such as Dolby Headphone.

That being said, if it's for casual use, where virtual surround is not feasible or important (such as mobile gaming, or indie games limited to stereo), I have absolutely no issues playing these types of games with the JAM. The JAM satisfies most of my needs in sound quality, from immersion, clarity, and stereo positional accuracy.



*Personal Recommendations*

Casual media (TV shows, podcasts, Youtube, etc.)
Bed/Late night use (great for using while laying down)
Portable use (great for kids/mobile games)

Outside of main/serious listening where I'd choose a more audiophile level headphone, the JAM is a neat little headset that screams versatility. It's a great beater headphone to toss in a bag and take everywhere. The freedom of wireless is a great boon that I feel needs more options today.



*Final Impressions*

For the very low price of admission, you get so much, from such a small package. The sound quality is good for the price, the comfort is fantastic (after finding a fix for the bare headband), the wireless freedom is a right step towards the future.

The JAM isn't a giant killer by any means, but honestly, that's far from necessary. The JAM isn't the most technically proficient, and has a few areas to improve on, but the package overall is well thought out and worthwhile.



*likes, Dislikes, Unfiltered Final Thoughts*

Pros:

Comfort
Lightweight
Practicality
Simplicity/easy to use button layout
Versatility
Decent balance in sound, no major harshness, fatigue, or veil
Wireless
Low Price

Cons:

Grainy bass boosting option in wireless mode
Random interference (not a major, frequent issue)
Build quality design could use a few more tweaks, like headband padding and cup swivel.

Unfiltered Final Thoughts:

The JAM isn't going to win awards in sound quality, but I can, with confidence say that its sound quality is absolutely on the right side of things, with its good balance and clarity despite some roughness here and there, particularly in its bass boosting.

It works so well for casual use, it has taken over my very beloved Koss clip-ons for those uses. Those who know me well, know how much I love my Koss clip-ons. The JAM is a joy to use with all of its functions and simplicity, I often reach for the JAM over my main headphones. I value practicality, which the JAM has in spades.

It is an easy recommendation for gifting to non-audiophiles as well. Sure to be popular with kids on their mobile devices. For its price range, I honestly recommend everyone giving the JAM a try if they're in need of something for casual use, where ultimate sound quality isn't the top priority. You may be surprised to find that the JAM is a competent, fun headphone.


----------



## Zyker

Can I get an opinion here?  I got a set of Beyerdynamic COPs for pretty cheap a while ago and decided to use them for my PS4.  I got a V-Moda BoomPro and have it hooked up through a Mixamp TR Pro (without a headphone AMP).  Now, however, I see the K7XX is on sale at MassDrop... should I spend the money to get one?  I know I'd also have to either get an adapter for the KX77 to use it with the BoomPro or just get a ModMic.  Would I just be better off getting a Magni to use with my current COPs?
  
 Thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The COP is pathetically easy to drive. It doesn't really scale with amping past stuff like the Mixamp. The Magni won't do much of anything for it. A modest portable amp at the MOST is all the COP would ever need.


----------



## Zyker

Alright, that's good to know.  If I got an amp, I'd most likely be getting a Magni, since I've heard such good things about the Magni/Modi combo (and it could drive things that a cheaper portable one couldn't, leading to me spending less money on another amp in the future).  And it's not like it's ridiculously expensive, either.
  
 Do you think there's a quality difference enough to justify getting the K7XX?  I've just heard such amazing things about it that it's quite tempting.  Though, from what I'm seeing, I'm looking at spending quite a bit of money if I do: $200 for the cans, $100 for the Magni (since I've read that they're hard to drive), $50 for a modmic (or $30ish for an adapter).


----------



## Change is Good

zyker said:


> Can I get an opinion here?  I got a set of Beyerdynamic COPs for pretty cheap a while ago and decided to use them for my PS4.  I got a V-Moda BoomPro and have it hooked up through a Mixamp TR Pro (without a headphone AMP).  Now, however, I see the K7XX is on sale at MassDrop... should I spend the money to get one?  I know I'd also have to either get an adapter for the KX77 to use it with the BoomPro or just get a ModMic.  Would I just be better off getting a Magni to use with my current COPs?
> 
> Thoughts?


 
  


zyker said:


> Alright, that's good to know.  If I got an amp, I'd most likely be getting a Magni, since I've heard such good things about the Magni/Modi combo (and it could drive things that a cheaper portable one couldn't, leading to me spending less money on another amp in the future).  And it's not like it's ridiculously expensive, either.
> 
> Do you think there's a quality difference enough to justify getting the K7XX?  I've just heard such amazing things about it that it's quite tempting.  Though, from what I'm seeing, I'm looking at spending quite a bit of money if I do: $200 for the cans, $100 for the Magni (since I've read that they're hard to drive), $50 for a modmic (or $30ish for an adapter).


 
  
 The K7XX's neutral-ish tone would probably compliment your COPs very well while giving the option of an open and more comfortable headphone to game with. Honestly, I used mine with just the wireless mixamp (no extra amping) 99.9% of the time.


----------



## Zyker

Ok, wow... if the Mixamp can drive the K7XX, that would really cut down on my costs!  I'd only have to get the modmic/adapter for it.  
  
 Suddenly, I feel my wallet cursing your name.


----------



## Change is Good

For gaming on your PS4, nah you won't _need_ an extra amp. It's when you listen to music on your *insert source here*, however, that you'll want an amp to appreciate what it can do.


----------



## Zyker

That makes sense.  I currently don't have any kind of amp... I've been using a A900X with a Sound Blaster Z on my computer for quite a while.  If I decided to move the K7XX to that, I'd probably pick up the amp, then.  If they sound as good as I've heard, that might end up happening.
  
 Thanks for the help, man.


----------



## Change is Good

zyker said:


> That makes sense.  I currently don't have any kind of amp... I've been using a A900X with a Sound Blaster Z on my computer for quite a while.  If I decided to move the K7XX to that, I'd probably pick up the amp, then.  If they sound as good as I've heard, that might end up happening.
> 
> Thanks for the help, man.


 
  
 No problem man. Do make sure to come back and share your thoughts on whatever you decided. Good luck!


----------



## Graveon

OK figured I'd ask here as trying to digest the amount of information in one go is hard. My current headphones are Logitech G35s. I bought them mainly for the wireless aspect, but it's quick to lose charge, and i think seems to get a lot of interference - they can cut out for periods of up to 10 seconds and I don't think the 7.1 works with ps4?. Looking for an upgrade, i'll be using them on both ps4 and pc (don't currently have a soundcard for PC). 
  
 The Sennheiser Game One (HD 598 equivalent?), is currently ~£150 down from £190 on amazon, but i've opted for 990DT 250Ohm (£102 @ scan).
  
 I'm mostly interested in the positional so I presume I am going to need a Astro Mixamp to go with the DTs?
 Would one also be necessary for the Game One anyway?
 Am I going to need external amp to drive them or is it not really gonna matter with ps4?
 Is anyone else using 990DT with ps4, or are most people opting for the astros w/mixamp combo for price?


----------



## Evshrug

Graveon,
The Logitech 7.1 positioning doesn't work with PS4, correct.

Wireless 7.1, you need either the Skullcandy Plyr1 headset kit (better than the Astro A50 kit), or if you want to adapt any headphone to wireless between TV and you, plus positional, you would find one of the discontinued Astro Mixamp 5.8 wireless units.

Wireless stereo, you can get a bluetooth USB transmitter for the PS4 (better to get a good one), and then any Bluetooth headphone. People have tried several of those, one of the good ones costs a little more but people like the Creative Bluetooth dongle.


----------



## Graveon

Evshrug,
  
 Thanks for reply, I'm not too worried about wireless or mic now tbh. I'll just use the logitechs if i need that. I've now ordered the 990DTs just not sure whether to buy an Astro TR mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

Graveon,
Do you mean Beyerdynamic DT990? The pro or premium version? If possible, get the 32 Ohm version because the Mixamp isn't a very strong amp. Beyers aren't quite as hard to drive as some others, but high-ohm models will still be up a few notches up on the volume dial.

Hope you like the Beyers, let us know if you like their sound signature.


----------



## Drizz1e

To HE400i owners:
  
 Do you feel like the mixamp is sufficient or does it need a bit more power? My computer and consoles are across the room from each other so I'd either have to run multiple long cables from my desktop amp to the console or buy a portable one just for gaming, which is overkill.


----------



## Change is Good

I use my 400i with just the mixamp all the time. You, too, should be fine without the extra amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Bought some Audeze vegan/leather free pads for my 400. Let's see how this goes.


----------



## Change is Good

You fukker I've been eyeing a pair for my 400i!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know how expensive they are. 

That and how they aren't a perfect fit, and I'd have to find a form of adhesive to stick them on, which is tough since I don't want it to be permanent (so I could use test the pads with other headphones if/when I have a chance).

Still, I'm very happy with my humble HE-400, and just trying to find the best non-leather solution that enhances its awesome bass without ruining everything else. The HE400 thread says these are the way to go. It seems the vegans are the most popular pad for the HE-6 too.

Might even be perfect for that TH-X00 of yours too.


----------



## canthearyou

mad lust envy said:


> Bought some Audeze vegan/leather free pads for my 400. Let's see how this goes.




Cool! Looking at some myself. I recently tried the Brainwavz pads route but didn't like how they looked. Never even mounted them.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> You know how expensive they are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Please let me know the differences you notice between them and the Focus pads (if you still have a pair).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The focus pads are mine. It'll be kinda hard to A/B because it's gonna be semi-permanent attaching those Audeze pads, it seems. They say the best method of using the pads is to mount directly to the metal, not the HFM rings.


----------



## Change is Good

Keep me posted, either way. Focus pads get hot after a while, but I don't want to drastically change the sound signature with a pad change. Seems like I lose detail and clarity whenever I do pad swaps of any kind on the 400i. I was told to go with the 400S pads, but then I'll lose some bass, something this headphone (to me) can't afford to lose any of.


----------



## Drizz1e

change is good said:


> I use my 400i with just the mixamp all the time. You, too, should be fine without the extra amp


 
  
 I see, good to hear. I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to pull the trigger, though. Maybe I'll wait until Black Friday and see if there are any good deals. The 400i would mainly be for desktop use but I'd like to have the option of gaming with it I feel like it.


----------



## Change is Good

drizz1e said:


> I see, good to hear. I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to pull the trigger, though. Maybe I'll wait until Black Friday and see if there are any good deals. The 400i would mainly be for desktop use but I'd like to have the option of gaming with it I feel like it.


 
  
 What are you looking to spend? Check the classifieds if you are trying to find one for around the price they sold these prior holidays.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Additional driver distance has always helped the big body HFMs in terms of bass, so I'm 100% sure vegan pads will be adding something down low compared to standard pads. Alpha pads are certainly more bass heavy than the Focus pads, but not as comfy, and I think I lost some midrange. I dunno. Didn't test that out for too long.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Additional driver distance has always helped the big body HFMs in terms of bass, so I'm 100% sure vegan pads will be adding something down low compared to standard pads. Alpha pads are certainly more bass heavy than the Focus pads, but not as comfy, and I think I lost some midrange. I dunno. Didn't test that out for too long.


 
  
 Yeah, I tried the X00 pads on the 400i (which are even more bass heavy than the alphas) and was very impressed. Still not bass monsters like the Fostex, but I got a better idea of what makes 'planar bass' so good. I quickly went back to the Focus pads, though, because I preferred the clarity and characteristics of the 400i's stock sound (for an open headphone).


----------



## Drizz1e

change is good said:


> What are you looking to spend? Check the classifieds if you are trying to find one for around the price they sold these prior holidays.


 
  
 I would want something close to $300 and $350 at the most. Buying used is definitely an option but I prefer new and I've already dropped $400 on the X00, so I'm trying to spread my purchases out anyway.


----------



## Change is Good

drizz1e said:


> I would want something close to $300 and $350 at the most. Buying used is definitely an option but I prefer new and I've already dropped $400 on the X00, so I'm trying to spread my purchases out anyway.




They were on sale recently for $299 during the holidays. Try emailing razordogaudio to see if Brian can still sell you one for that price. If not, here is a classified for $285 used

http://www.head-fi.org/t/798645/hifiman-he-400i


----------



## Drizz1e

I'll give those a look if I decide to get them sooner rather than later. Right now money's kind of tight and I don't need 3 sets of cans at the moment (already own the X2s). The 400i's are mainly a backup in case I don't like the X00s and decide that I want something closer to neutral. I'm still trying to figure out what my preferred sound signature is but I figure if the X00s aren't my cup of tea I can just sell them without much of a loss and use the money to buy a 400i. Thanks for the info, though!


----------



## Tigertemprr

So I decided to get the following for my PS4 and PC: Phillips Fidelio X2, V-Moda BoomPro, Sound Blaster Z. I can get PS4 game and chat audio on the headphones just fine (PS4 > Optical > SBZ > V-Moda cable > X2). I'm trying to wire in a way that doesn't require unplugging cables constantly. I could use a splitter on the microphone before it goes into the SBZ, so the other end can be sent to the PS4 controller. *Problem*: PS4 controller doesn't recognize input. Does the PS4 controller require a 4-pole connection? Is there a better way of doing this with what I already have (no Mixamp)? The headphone audio works fine; I just need a working chat/microphone solution.


----------



## 1llest

How's the AKG K7XX compare to the X1? Just saw it on massdrop and I am very interested


----------



## Defender0fAloha

Just got a woox fidelio x2 for my ps4. I love it great guide thanks for all the help. Night and day as far as positioning goes and open headphones, I am able to hear exactly where footsteps are coming from has changed my game.


----------



## Defender0fAloha

tigertemprr said:


> So I decided to get the following for my PS4 and PC: Phillips Fidelio X2, V-Moda BoomPro, Sound Blaster Z. I can get PS4 game and chat audio on the headphones just fine (PS4 > Optical > SBZ > V-Moda cable > X2). I'm trying to wire in a way that doesn't require unplugging cables constantly. I could use a splitter on the microphone before it goes into the SBZ, so the other end can be sent to the PS4 controller. *Problem*: PS4 controller doesn't recognize input. Does the PS4 controller require a 4-pole connection? Is there a better way of doing this with what I already have (no Mixamp)? The headphone audio works fine; I just need a working chat/microphone solution.


I have an x2 and ran a vmoda cable with mic already attatched works perfectly


----------



## canthearyou

defender0faloha said:


> I have an x2 and ran a vmoda cable with mic already attatched works perfectly




Ran a cable to what?


----------



## Defender0fAloha

canthearyou said:


> Ran a cable to what?


 Straight through controller worked instantly sounds great


----------



## Tigertemprr

If you use the combined microphone+headphone audio (4 pole 3.5 connector without the included splitter) cable then it will give you stereo (no PS4 virtual surround?) bluetooth audio which is acceptable, though it doesn't sound as good as being connected to the SBZ and cuts out occasionally. I'm trying to use the included V-moda splitter and give the controller ONLY microphone/chat signal. All the while keeping cable management low so I don't have to reach behind my PC to unplug/plug cables everytime I switch from PS4 to PC gaming.


----------



## canthearyou

defender0faloha said:


> Straight through controller worked instantly sounds great




I personally wouldn't use the term "sounds great".


----------



## Zyker

canthearyou said:


> I personally wouldn't use the term "sounds great".


 
 Yeah, it's not a great sound.  It's sound, let's leave it at that.
  
 The best part about it is that it's simple and works easily.  I only have my COPs (soon to be a K7XX!) connected to my PS4 via a Mixamp but moving from the controller to the mixamp has been _amazing_.  It sounds a lot better.


----------



## Defender0fAloha

zyker said:


> Yeah, it's not a great sound.  It's sound, let's leave it at that.
> 
> The best part about it is that it's simple and works easily.  I only have my COPs (soon to be a K7XX!) connected to my PS4 via a Mixamp but moving from the controller to the mixamp has been _amazing_.  It sounds a lot better.


Thanks for backing me up lol I just wanted to help. What mix amp are you using and how much is it? Will it work with my x2?


----------



## canthearyou

defender0faloha said:


> Thanks for backing me up lol I just wanted to help. What mix amp are you using and how much is it? Will it work with my x2?




Astro MixAmp. It'll work great with the X2. That's what I was using before I picked up a G5.


----------



## donthitmebro

hey guys, i messaged Mad Lust Envy privately about this matter, but maybe someone else can help me out.
  
 I recently purchased BeyerDynamic DT 880s (250 ohms), with the intent of using them for gaming. As noted by others, its easier to drive, but without proper amp/dac, the volume is quite low. I am looking at a DAC/AMP or just an amp for said headphones. I have no intention of purchasing the mixamp because i have an xboxone, and use the kinnect as my microphone. Therefore, i was wondering anyone has any suggestions for a DAC/AMP or just an AMP for my setup? Furthermore, how would i set it up?
  
 Any help would be appreciated. 
  
 Thanks in advance


----------



## canthearyou

donthitmebro said:


> hey guys, i messaged Mad Lust Envy privately about this matter, but maybe someone else can help me out.
> 
> I recently purchased BeyerDynamic DT 880s (250 ohms), with the intent of using them for gaming. As noted by others, its easier to drive, but without proper amp/dac, the volume is quite low. I am looking at a DAC/AMP or just an amp for said headphones. I have no intention of purchasing the mixamp because i have an xboxone, and use the kinnect as my microphone. Therefore, i was wondering anyone has any suggestions for a DAC/AMP or just an AMP for my setup? Furthermore, how would i set it up?
> 
> ...




Just letting you know you can use the MixAmp and use Kinect as mic.


----------



## donthitmebro

canthearyou said:


> Just letting you know you can use the MixAmp and use Kinect as mic.


yes I'm aware, but I see the mixamp as being redundant as I'm already using the kinnect as a microphone. Moreover, I'd have to have an external amp with the mixamp to drive everything adequately.


----------



## Zyker

defender0faloha said:


> Thanks for backing me up lol I just wanted to help. What mix amp are you using and how much is it? Will it work with my x2?


 
 Yeah, it's the Astro Mixamp Pro (the new ones are called Pro TR and they want you to choose between a PS4 and Xbone version).  It normally costs around $130 but you can sometimes find it on sale.
  
 If you've been driving your X2s with the DS4, you can definitely drive them with the mixamp.  You'll most likely see a huge improvement when you move to it (similar to the improvement I saw when I moved with my COPs).


----------



## Evshrug

donthitmebro said:


> yes I'm aware, but I see the mixamp as being redundant as I'm already using the kinnect as a microphone. Moreover, I'd have to have an external amp with the mixamp to drive everything adequately.




I found the Turtle Beach DSS (on eBay pretty cheap) had quite a bit of volume dial left on my DT880 with 600 Ohms when I had that. However, even that less-bright-than-DT990 headphone was too bright for my long gaming sessions, so eventually I recommend a setup where you can cut the treble a bit (like the Creative gear, or a dark amp).

Now channeling your (headphone geek) mother:
Take breaks every hour or two, and if your ears start hurting, ringing, or producing extra ear wax then PROTECT YOUR HEARING FOR THE FUTURE and listen quieter.


----------



## rudyae86

donthitmebro said:


> hey guys, i messaged Mad Lust Envy privately about this matter, but maybe someone else can help me out.
> 
> I recently purchased BeyerDynamic DT 880s (250 ohms), with the intent of using them for gaming. As noted by others, its easier to drive, but without proper amp/dac, the volume is quite low. I am looking at a DAC/AMP or just an amp for said headphones. I have no intention of purchasing the mixamp because i have an xboxone, and use the kinnect as my microphone. Therefore, i was wondering anyone has any suggestions for a DAC/AMP or just an AMP for my setup? Furthermore, how would i set it up?
> 
> ...


 
 Seems like you did not read the first page of this huge thread. Just a quick FYI, he (MLE) is not going to reply to private messages regarding topics within this thread, as he has stated on Page 1 but he could answer your question here if he sees it. But you are more than welcome to ask questions here, since we have many experienced peeps in here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd still get a Mixamp because of virtual surround. Though if he's adamant on not getting one, perhaps just find a used Turtle Beach DSS for hella cheap on Ebay. This is, assuming it's just for gaming. If you want something outside of gaming, a dac/amp would be nice, and may as well find a Creative X7 or something that serves all the needs. I mean.... LITERALLY on the first page. The prices may be outdated, and can probably be found much cheaper now....maybe.

People go crazy buying these insensitive headphones, and half ass it with no amping or the cheapest thing they find. It's absurd. You gotta have SOMETHING. If anything, for the purpose of gaming, just score a used Turtle Beach DSS. It's like $20 or so. It won't kill anyone. Hell, I may do the same. At 250ohm, the DT880 shouldn't have much hiss with the DSS.


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, I need a favor. Since you can't A/B because the vegans will be semi-permamanent, would you please use the focus pads exclusively (until they arrive) so you can have a better idea of what the sound difference will be between the two? I'm on the fence of grabbing a pair, and this would help me immensely. Thanks.


----------



## Graveon

Finally got to test my DT990s i bought, they are certainly different, explosions sound off on COD though, and footsteps at range have a hard to describe tapping sound. I've ordered a DSS which is coming tomorrow, but will probably buy a soundcard for PC. Trying them out on The Division Beta and sound seems way better, maybe it's COD?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I see MLE appreciating Mirror's Edge


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, I need a favor. Since you can't A/B because the vegans will be semi-permamanent, would you please use the focus pads exclusively (until they arrive) so you can have a better idea of what the sound difference will be between the two? I'm on the fence of grabbing a pair, and this would help me immensely. Thanks.




Can't, I'm currently all in on another headphone for review, so I haven't been using the HE400 in weeks. I will def let you know if it sounds great, plus comfort and all though. But until I finish this review, the HE400 is on standby.

I think I'll just say eff it and attach it permanently anyways.

Feggy, I was obsessed with ME back when it came out. You have no idea how hyped I am for the reboot.


----------



## G3ronimo

Hey all! I read that headphones from well-known brands are generally better than gaming headsets and because I use my headphones a lot, I'm looking for a new pair of quality headphones. I will use the headphones mainly for gaming, but I of course also listen to music and watch movies now and then. I find positional accuracy (being able to hear where my enemies are walking or where they are shooting from) and entertaining/immersive sound (nice explosive sounds and such) equally important in games. My budget is < €180 ($200). After reading this guide I have my eyes on the DT990 Pro (€139). They only sell the 250 Ohm version where I live though. Now some people say I'd really need an AMP to drive these, while others say I don't necessarily need one and my MSI Z97 Gaming 5 motherboard suffices. My budget isn't big enough to afford an AMP on top of the headphones. So if the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm version really requires an AMP, I had three other headphones in mind: Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus (€174) or the Sennheiser HD558 (€143) / HD598 (€189). Which of all these would you recommend if you keep in mind that I can't afford an AMP on top of the headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Probably the 558. It's a great value. Well balanced, great for gaming. Shop around. May be found closer to $100.

I dunno about your mobo's sound specs, but the 990 Pro def needs amping. Also, the Pro only comes in 250ohm. The Premiums are the ones that can be found in other ohm, though I'd still recommend 250 or 600, because the 32ohm may be louder off less power, but to sound good STILL need amping, and won't sound as good as the other two. Since amping is still necessary, no reason not to go with 250ohm if that's the case. I find the 32ohm Beyers to be kind of redundant. They sound like piss without amping, and with an amp, the others sound better.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, if you're Spending more on a headphone (say $200 and up) headphone but you can't afford to use anything but motherboard audio or straight from your phone, then you are overreaching your budget.

Yeah, you'll get sound from a motherboard or phone, and yeah some of the $300 motherboards will have less noise or distortion than a ($120 or less used) Mixamp, but a cheap FiiO E11k amp can still beat the motherboard. If you saved money on your motherboard compared to that (I did!), good for you and your budget sense! And you'll be able to hear the headphone, probably even loud enough. But your better headphone will only sound a little better than the cheap mobile (or gaming) headphones, and some parts of it will sound "off" due to under amping. An amp with low distortion and a reserve of current and voltage headroom will be better able to support transients and dynamic moments... if you have a weaker amp that you're driving to almost max volume, the bass will be flabby, uncontrolled, and flat, some of the treble notes will be extra harsh, and the soundstage/headstage imaging won't reach very far before seeming to be chopped short in uneven ways.

Of course, an exception to this would be IEMs, all they need is a clean low-distortion source because they are so sensitive and don't need much power to sing.

The premium line of Beyers is more comfortable because the Pro has strong clamping. I think the pads are different too... I haven't heard a pro, I just did research and determined the comfort was important enough for me to wait till a Premium went on sale.


----------



## G3ronimo

mad lust envy said:


> Probably the 558. It's a great value. Well balanced, great for gaming. Shop around. May be found closer to $100.
> 
> I dunno about your mobo's sound specs, but the 990 Pro def needs amping. Also, the Pro only comes in 250ohm. The Premiums are the ones that can be found in other ohm, though I'd still recommend 250 or 600, because the 32ohm may be louder off less power, but to sound good STILL need amping, and won't sound as good as the other two. Since amping is still necessary, no reason not to go with 250ohm if that's the case. I find the 32ohm Beyers to be kind of redundant. They sound like piss without amping, and with an amp, the others sound better.


 
 Thanks for your reply! The DT990 and HD558 cost the same where I live. If you were in my shoes would you save up some more money for a cheaper AMP (Schiit Magni 2 for €119 for instance) and buy the DT990. Or buy the 558 instead without an AMP? I currently have a Creative Fatal1ty Gaming Headset, a €30 headset, so either way it would probably be a big increase in sound quality for me. I'm even thinking about going for the Creative Aurvana Live! or Live!2, since you gave these a pretty high rating and they are much cheaper.


----------



## G3ronimo

evshrug said:


> Right, if you're Spending more on a headphone (say $200 and up) headphone but you can't afford to use anything but motherboard audio or straight from your phone, then you are overreaching your budget.
> 
> Yeah, you'll get sound from a motherboard or phone, and yeah some of the $300 motherboards will have less noise or distortion than a ($120 or less used) Mixamp, but a cheap FiiO E11k amp can still beat the motherboard. If you saved money on your motherboard compared to that (I did!), good for you and your budget sense!


 
 Thanks for mentioning this! Then I will probably save up for a cheaper AMP or look for a cheaper pair of headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

A general story:

Recently, I was talking to a guy whose phone keeps getting so dirty he can't hear or be heard. He works in construction, with a lot of dust and dirt in the air all the time. He's been over to Apple 3-4 times to get the speakers cleaned or replaced.

I suggested he gets one of those cases that cover the speaker and mic, so that he doesn't have to take off work as often for repairs. He immediately went on the defensive stating "I spent a thousand dollars on this, why would I spend more money on a case for it?"

"How about because you've invested so much money into it?" I happen to have just bought the same phone as him (which doesn't actually cost $1k). I don't work in the same environment as him, but even so I'm getting a case and I'm going to try to protect that investment so I don't risk throwing that investment away. In his case, he already had to get his phone fixed three times or more, so at this point it's not a risk for him but rather a fact of life that it will happen again until he does something about it.

Relating back to headphones, you know, another true story: when I originally bought my AKG Q701 used from Mad, I was powering it off of a FiiO E5, or straight from a Creative Recon3D USB. That setup was GREAT with my previous headphone, an Audio Technica AD700, which had pretty high sensitivity and was only 32 ohms resistance. This was back when the AD700 was $80, and used Q701 usually sold higher than the $200 I paid. And, for more than 2x the price, I got a little better bass extension, Earpads that were a little more comfortable (I was soon to mod my AD700 to a point that made comfort neck-and-neck even), a little less mids coloration, but THAT WAS IT. The FiiO wasn't really any more powerful than the Recon3D itself, but it did seem to ease the treble sharpness a bit. For another God-tier soundstage headphone, the Q seemed almost like it was not quite as good at imaging and creating an even bubble of space for sound positions as the AD700. I liked the Q a bit better for music (still it was enough to give me goosebumps), but still it seemed a bit rough and truncated like it could have more to give.

The Q701 appreciation thread said the headphone really scales up with amping (not gain/volume, as I already had plenty of that) and that the timbre of tubes really suits the Q sound signature, so after about a month of research I got a custom-made SET tube amp. Enough of the history lesson, wow that amp made a difference! Maybe only a little change to any one part, but the improvement was felt across every sonic aspect: Soundstage became even-shaped and I picked up on little nuances that seemed layered further away, the bass had a more solid foundation, the mids more liquid and energetic (perhaps brought forward more, or perhaps better separated so as to be more distinct), and the treble also became more crisp yet less brittle. 

Every once in awhile, today, I hook up my even harder to drive AKG K612 to my iPhone; it's serviceable, but knowning it can sound better drives me back to my better gear. Yeah, it was another $200 on an amp (which I still have and use... Oh man, ~ 5 years later?), yeah it wasn't huge measurable change, but it was a change that made all the difference.

A construction worker should protect his business-critical gear and investments, just like a diver should get a waterproof watch, just like a Mazda Miata should have better tires than donuts, just like an audiophile will enjoy their audio more if they have a good system to match a good headphone... The headphone is only one part of the system. Eventually, you could get some awesome summit-fi headphones like an HD800 or an Ether C, but their performance will be bottlenecked by the system. I could go back to using the almost-free EarPods plugged straight into the PS4 controller for game audio and chat, but my goal for gaming (and music) is to enjoy (and kick butt!), and my better setup gives me better immersive enjoyment.

GL HF!


----------



## Hendrycks

Hey, I'm trying to get into more "audiophile" gear with my gaming as I'm using the Astro A40 TR's atm and I feel like there's better out there. The mic in particular through the Xbox One is absolute crap and I wanted to grab the V-Moda BoomPro Mic. At the same time I was going to grab some new headphones to amp up my audio game. 
  
 If anyone can give some headphone suggestions that sound great with the 7.1 virtual surround sound of the Mixamp as well as being usable with the V-Moda mic that'd be great! Also I haven't found someone say that the V-Moda mic works 100% with the TR Mixamp so if you have it working, let me know! I'd like to spend about a maximum of $300 CAD. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Zyker

Alright, here's a list of headphones that will work with the BoomPro (this is taken from the first page of this thread, so thank MLE!):
  
 Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro
 Focal Spirit Pro, Classic (need confirmation)
 M-Audio Q40
 Monster DNA On Ear, DNA Pro
 MrSpeakers Mad Dog (single ended version)
 NAD Viso HP50
 Nuforce HP800
 Philips Fidelio X1
 Skullcandy Aviator
 Vmoda LP2, M80, M100, XS
  
 I, personally, have the Beyerdynamic COPs with a BoomPro... I think they have nice sound and are a good set for my PS4 (and I haven't had any complaints about my mic).  That being said, they're definitely not the _best_ either... I'm actually in the process of getting the AKG K7XX from Massdrop, which I've been told would be great as my console headphones.  Since you said you're using the Astro A40 TRs, I'm going to assume you have a mixamp, which is precisely what you'd want when upgrading your headphones for your console.
  
 Are you determined to use the BoomPro?  If not, you could always go with an Antlion MocMic and turn _any_ set of headphones into a gaming headset (which is what I'm going to do with my K7XX).


----------



## Hendrycks

Thanks for the reply! I'm totally down to spend a few hundred on headphones but I want to make sure they sound noticeably better than the A40's I have atm. I don't know enough to know what type of headphone I'd like as I've only owned a few pairs and there's nowhere I can try them out easily. I was about to go with the V-Moda LP2's but then I saw the M100 for $100 more. I do love bass but then I read a good 5 reviews in a row saying that they were crap and almost as bad as Beats lol. I just need a good headphone for a couple 100 that can work well with the positional audio added by the Astro Mixamp.
  
 I'm not determined to use the BoomPro but I've heard it sounds great and makes it so that I only have to deal with one cable. Also the fact that I can actually get it from V-Moda from Amazon.ca for $30 is awesome. I do still need confirmation whether it'll work through the Mixamp though :/
  
 The reason I want to upgrade my A40's is because I use a Xonar Essence STX soundcard with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 250 Ohms on my PC and I love the sound quality I get from them. I'd use the Beyer's with my Xbox through the Mixamp but I'd have to keep moving the headphones between my Xbox and PC which are fairly far away. Also it's a non-removable cable so I'd have to try to find somewhere to buy the ModMic.


----------



## Zyker

Yeah, I'll agree with the reviews for the COPs... they're nice but not outstanding.  I'd suggest getting them if 1) you find a good deal on them and 2) you like the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones.  I haven't used the A40s, so I can't talk about how much of an improvement you'd be getting when you switch to a different pair of headphones... hopefully someone else can help you there.  All I can say is that the A40 and the COPs have the same overall rating in this guide. 
  
 Yeah, I love my BoomPro but might be making a switch to the ModMic once my M7XX comes in.  The two cables sounds like it might be annoying but I'm thinking of just sleeving them through some paracord and turning them into a "single" cord with 2 ends (unfortunately, that also makes it much harder for me to remove the ModMic if I want to take them off the headphones).  What confirmation do you need for the Mixamp?  It will work with the BoomPro (I have mine set up like that) and it will also work with a ModMic (just use a headphone/mic audio adapter that turns the two ends into one, which then goes into the mixamp).  I understand that it might be difficult to get the ModMic in Canada... but if you can find a pair, I'd totally suggest thinking about it, since it opens up what headphones you can use. 
  
 I had/have the ATH-AD700, which is the set that came before the 700X.  I absolutely love them (if I remember correctly, MLE doesn't like them as much).  They had a great soundstage and were awesome for gaming on my PC (a good soundstage is important for good positional audio and open cans tend to have a better soundstage).  However, because they have an open back design, there was a _lot_ of sound leakage... if you're going to be annoying/distracting someone else in your house, you might want to get a closed back pair.  That's the reason why I moved to an A900X (its soundstage isn't nearly as big, but it's still fairly large and has a nice, clean sound).  This is one of the reasons I'm getting the K7XX.


----------



## Hendrycks

I'd love to get the K7XX but it seems like they were only available through the Massdrop that ended?
  
 I don't mind sound leakage but I also love bass and I've heard that really open-back headphones have less bass? I don't need a ton but I really miss it if it isn't there.
  
 That's awesome that the mics work with the Mixamp! Do you have the TR Mixamp or another model? I know with the TR everything's digital now so I'd love someone to confirm that it works on that Mixamp still! The TR Mixamp also sends all audio and chat through the USB cable so I'm worried that it might not work with the TR :/
  
 I just checked and NCIX has the ModMic in Canada for $54 so I'm good to go! To connect it to the Mixamp I'd just need a double female to male cable then? Now I just need to pick a headphone to go with it aha. 
  
 Between the AD700X's, V-Moda LP2's and V-Moda M-100's which ones are considered 'better'?
  
 EDIT: I just found Massdrop with this: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-x-massdrop-k7xx-limited-edition-ruby-red
  
 It's just the K7XX's in red, I've never done Massdrop, I might just grab them before it ends in 4 days!


----------



## Hendrycks

Well my post got deleted because I tried adding an external link lol. I went ahead and joined the Massdrop of the K7XX in red! I've never done Massdrop so I'm pretty stoked. Gonna order the modmic too (found it for $54 in Canada)! Thanks so much for the help eh!
  
 EDIT: Once last question, do you have the TR Mixamp? If so, do I just need an adapter that has two female 3.5mm and one male to plug headphones into one female and modmic into the other, then plug the male jack into the Mixamp headphone jack? Thanks!


----------



## canthearyou

zyker said:


> Yeah, I'll agree with the reviews for the COPs... they're nice but not outstanding.  I'd suggest getting them if 1) you find a good deal on them and 2) you like the sound of Beyerdynamic headphones.  I haven't used the A40s, so I can't talk about how much of an improvement you'd be getting when you switch to a different pair of headphones... hopefully someone else can help you there.  All I can say is that the A40 and the COPs have the same overall rating in this guide.
> 
> Yeah, I love my BoomPro but might be making a switch to the ModMic once my M7XX comes in.  The two cables sounds like it might be annoying but I'm thinking of just sleeving them through some paracord and turning them into a "single" cord with 2 ends (unfortunately, that also makes it much harder for me to remove the ModMic if I want to take them off the headphones).  What confirmation do you need for the Mixamp?  It will work with the BoomPro (I have mine set up like that) and it will also work with a ModMic (just use a headphone/mic audio adapter that turns the two ends into one, which then goes into the mixamp).  I understand that it might be difficult to get the ModMic in Canada... but if you can find a pair, I'd totally suggest thinking about it, since it opens up what headphones you can use.
> 
> I had/have the ATH-AD700, which is the set that came before the 700X.  I absolutely love them (if I remember correctly, MLE doesn't like them as much).  They had a great soundstage and were awesome for gaming on my PC (a good soundstage is important for good positional audio and open cans tend to have a better soundstage).  However, because they have an open back design, there was a _lot_ of sound leakage... if you're going to be annoying/distracting someone else in your house, you might want to get a closed back pair.  That's the reason why I moved to an A900X (its soundstage isn't nearly as big, but it's still fairly large and has a nice, clean sound).  This is one of the reasons I'm getting the K7XX.




The Modmic comes with 4 or 5 little double cord clips. Just wrap the ModMic cord around the headphone cable and space out the clips.





hendrycks said:


> Well my post got deleted because I tried adding an external link lol. I went ahead and joined the Massdrop of the K7XX in red! I've never done Massdrop so I'm pretty stoked. Gonna order the modmic too (found it for $54 in Canada)! Thanks so much for the help eh!
> 
> EDIT: Once last question, do you have the TR Mixamp? If so, do I just need an adapter that has two female 3.5mm and one male to plug headphones into one female and modmic into the other, then plug the male jack into the Mixamp headphone jack? Thanks!



The Mixamp comes with a "Y" adapter. Just plug your mic and headphones into adapter and plug adapter into Mixamp.


----------



## Bluesfox

A big thank you to MLE for creating this thread and sharing his wealth of headphone experience within the specific context of gaming.

I've been using the Astro mix amp 5.8 with Dolby headphone and the Senn HD 595 headphones with good results. However, I wanted to maximize the fun factor with rainbow six and other xb1 fps games. The mixamp and 595 combo was generally great, but lacked the pinpoint accuracy I was seeking for positional queues. 

So looked for some released articles and sure enough MLE created the ultimate guide for the question. After thinking of AKG 701 vs Phillips X2, landed on a $100 pair of Q701 Amazon warehouse used headphones. The headphones arrived with the plastic protective covering still in place - lol - guess you could call those good as new.
I've been using the headphones for the past few nights and the difference is clear . The positional accuracy is much better with the Q701. They still maintain great detail, lacking in bass somewhat, but acceptable. Very spacious soundstage, and the Dolby headphone is great. Also noticed that the helicopter DH demo on YouTube is better with the Q701 specifically at near 12 and 6 o'clock positions compared to the 595.

Comfort wise, the Q701 seemed like a bit of a torture chamber device compared to the Senn. I've already exacto-knifed the two middle bumps away, which helps quite a bit. (Guess not returning now.. Lol)

I added in a NuForce DAC amp (older model from a few years ago laying around) to help give the mixamp a boost. Sounds decent, no limit in volume with the combo. Added a mod mic, which seems to be working fine too.

If you are on the fence about the Senn vs AKG for positional accuracy, you might want to give the Q701 a go for around 100 bucks used and see what you think. Worked out more than positive for my gaming goal. Still can't aim worth a damn, but at least having great fun winning or losing either way since it simply sounds outstanding.

And the post above above mentioning about twisting the mic cable - you are genius, one of those why didn't I think of that moments. Appreciate the tip.

Huge thanks to MLE for the general direction. In gaming heaven now!


----------



## Zyker

hendrycks said:


> EDIT: Once last question, do you have the TR Mixamp? If so, do I just need an adapter that has two female 3.5mm and one male to plug headphones into one female and modmic into the other, then plug the male jack into the Mixamp headphone jack? Thanks!


 
  
 Yeah, I have the Mixamp Pro TR for PS4.  How I have it connected is a TOSLINK (optical audio cable) connects the PS4 and Mixamp (this preserves digital surround), a microUSB/USB connects the PS4 to the Mixamp for the mic, the headphones and mic are connected to the mixamp (for the ModMic, you'll attach them to the y-adapter first, then to the mixamp).  It's actually a really easy setup.  As I said before, I have a PS4 so this is the PS4 setup... I'm not sure how the Xbone setup would be but I doubt it's _vastly different_.  There are also some super helpful diagrams on the bottom of the first page of this guide.
  
 Edit: There are also some things you'll set up in the console itself, too... just changing the audio signal to go through the TOSLINK and be Dolby digital and stuff... I can't really remember the exact details.  And if you want to get sound through the TV again, you just turn off the Mixamp and the console auto-detects it and changes the sound output accordingly.
  


hendrycks said:


> Well my post got deleted because I tried adding an external link lol. I went ahead and joined the Massdrop of the K7XX in red! I've never done Massdrop so I'm pretty stoked. Gonna order the modmic too (found it for $54 in Canada)! Thanks so much for the help eh!


 
  
 Yeah, I'm also a part of that MassDrop and share your excitement!  They're a pretty sexy looking pair of cans.  In fact, it looks like we're doing the same thing, in terms of system setup (K7XX/ModMic).


----------



## Hendrycks

Hey, so I went and grabbed the ModMic a few hours ago and a Y adapter with three poles (my TRs didn't come with one and I sold my old Mixamp with all the cables) and everything seems to be working. I tested it out with a voice message on Xbox and the mic seems to sound really good! I found it odd though that the ModMic doesn't really want to bend, is that intentional to keep it from sagging or can you bend it if you need to? It sucks that I can no longer see if the mic's muted by the Mixamp lights changing colours but it's a tiny gripe.
  
 I'm so stoked for the MassDrop now aha, not much longer to wait! Thanks so much for the help eh and thanks MLE for the great thread and info on the first page!!


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hello there guys!!i have a question that is messing with my head
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 how i can setup the Turtle Beach DSS(old version)with the HD 598 and ModMic to use with my xbox 360?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DSS does not have mic capabilities, (*again, as mentioned on the first page*). Unless you buy a separate chat device (like the Steelseries Audio Mixer), which just adds to the clutter. Should get a Mixamp instead if you're gonna chat. The DSS is for those who AREN'T gonna chat.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

ahh ok!!well the astro mixamp will come home soon,thank you for reply Mad Lust Envy
  
 edit:*Mad Lust Envy* do i need an extra cable  to connect the modmic to the Mixamp or i just connect it straight to the Mixamp mic port?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hendrycks said:


> and a Y adapter with three poles


 
 where did you get the Y adapter?and why you need the Y adapter?im asking you because i just ordered the astro Mixamp and the ModMic.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

canthearyou said:


> The Mixamp comes with a "Y" adapter. Just plug your mic and headphones into adapter and plug adapter into Mixamp.


 
 hello man!! i just ordered the Astro mixamp 2013 edition to use with my HD598 and the ModMic,,my question is why do i need the Y adapter?and where do i plug the Y adapter on the astro mixdown?i wll use my xbox 360,thank you in advance.


----------



## Zyker

Have you looked at the connection diagrams on the first page of this thread?  Those helped me out a ton.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

zyker said:


> Have you looked at the connection diagrams on the first page of this thread?  Those helped me out a ton.


 

 no man i didnt see the connection diagram on the first page,let me go and take a look,thanks for reply.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

zyker said:


> Have you looked at the connection diagrams on the first page of this thread?  Those helped me out a ton.


 

 already look to the connection diagram post,do you think this cable can do the trick.


----------



## Zyker

That looks like it will be fine.  Just be sure not to mix up the mic and headphone cable.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Have you looked at the connection diagrams on the first page of this thread?  Those helped me out a ton.


 

 Glad You liked them.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

zyker said:


> That looks like it will be fine.  Just be sure not to mix up the mic and headphone cable.


 

 lol so i need to be very careful with that Y cable,thank you man for reply.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Glad You liked them.


 
 Dude, those things are a godsend.  I'm such a visual person and I read a _ton_ on how to connect the headphones to my PS4/mixamp but still wasn't sure that I had it down.  Then I saw your beautiful little diagrams and I shed numerous tears.


----------



## Zyker

ni6htwalker said:


> lol so i need to be very careful with that Y cable,thank you man for reply.


 
 Well, you don't have to be _that_ careful... it just won't work right if you mix the cables up.  The adapter you showed has the little mic/headphone pictures printed on them (others are color coded), so just pay a little attention and you're gold.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

zyker said:


> Well, you don't have to be _that_ careful... it just won't work right if you mix the cables up.  The adapter you showed has the little mic/headphone pictures printed on them (others are color coded), so just pay a little attention and you're gold.


 

 ahh ok i see,do you know if the Astro Mixamp mic port is  2.5mm?


----------



## Zyker

ni6htwalker said:


> ahh ok i see,do you know if the Astro Mixamp mic port is  2.5mm?


 
 Pretty sure it's a 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Hendrycks

ni6htwalker said:


> ahh ok i see,do you know if the Astro Mixamp mic port is  2.5mm?


 
 Hey sorry for not replying sooner. I bought that exact Y adapter you linked a picture of and it works perfectly on my TR Mixamp.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

zyker said:


> Pretty sure it's a 3.5mm jack.


 

 so i think i will need a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable


----------



## Hendrycks

ni6htwalker said:


> so i think i will need a 3.5mm to 2.5mm cable


 
 Did you buy a TR Mixamp or another model? If you bought anything other than the TR, they have it so that you have a 3.5mm headset port for the A40's (or another headphone) and then a 2.5mm mic port to have a cable go from it to your controller. So if you bought an older Mixamp it'll come with a 2.5mm cable so afaik you'll just need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hendrycks said:


> Hey sorry for not replying sooner. I bought that exact Y adapter you linked a picture of and it works perfectly on my TR Mixamp.


 

 cool man thank you for letting me know,i will order it on amazon later today,


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hendrycks said:


> Did you buy a TR Mixamp or another model? If you bought anything other than the TR, they have it so that you have a 3.5mm headset port for the A40's (or another headphone) and then a 2.5mm mic port to have a cable go from it to your controller. So if you bought an older Mixamp it'll come with a 2.5mm cable so afaik you'll just need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter.


 

 i bought the Astro Mixamp 2013 edition.


----------



## Hendrycks

ni6htwalker said:


> i bought the Astro Mixamp 2013 edition.


 
 Ok, are you using it on Console or PC? I think on PC you can just use the 3.5mm headset port with that Y adapter and you're good to go as your mic can be sent over the USB (or Optical) but on console it doesn't. That's when you need the 2.5mm cable that comes with the Mixamp to plug into your controller so that your mic will work. I just checked and you don't actually need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter.
  
 Basically on PC it's plugging in the Y adapter's male end into the Mixamp's 3.5mm headset port. Plug your headphones into the female end of the Y adapter with the headphone symbol and your mic into the other female end of the Y that has the mic symbol on it and you're done. On console it'll be the same but also plug the 2.5mm cable that's included with the Mixamp into the mic port on the Mixamp and the other end into whatever controller you're using.
  
 Hopefully that makes sense?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hendrycks said:


> Ok, are you using it on Console or PC? I think on PC you can just use the 3.5mm headset port with that Y adapter and you're good to go as your mic can be sent over the USB but on console it doesn't. That's when you need the 2.5mm cable that comes with the Mixamp to plug into your controller so that your mic will work. I just checked and you don't actually need a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter.
> 
> Basically on PC it's plugging in the Y adapter's male end into the Mixamp's 3.5mm headset port. Plug your headphones into one of the female ends of the Y adapter with the headphone symbol and your mic into the other female end of the Y that has the mic symbol on it and you're done. On console it'll be the same but also plug the 2.5mm cable that's included with the Mixamp into the mic port on the Mixamp and the other end into whatever controller you're using.
> 
> Hopefully that makes sense?


 

 i will use the xbox 360,thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions.


----------



## Spartoi

Can someone recommend me an over-the-ear headphone with a detachable cable for ~$100 (new or used)? I don't want a bass-deprived headphone (HD 598) or anything bass heavy, just something with decent bass. I can get a CAL2 for ~$60 but I've read mixed opinions about it being the same or worse than the original CAL so not sure what to get. The Ultrasone 550 interests me as well, but it's a bit out of my budget. The AKG K240 is in my range but I think it might lack bass. Any other recommendations or clarifications would be nice. Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

spartoi said:


> Can someone recommend me an over-the-ear headphone with a detachable cable for ~$100 (new or used)? I don't want a bass-deprived headphone (HD 598) or anything bass heavy, just something with decent bass. I can get a CAL2 for ~$60 but I've read mixed opinions about it being the same or worse than the original CAL so not sure what to get. The Ultrasone 550 interests me as well, but it's a bit out of my budget. The AKG K240 is in my range but I think it might lack bass. Any other recommendations or clarifications would be nice. Thanks.




SHP9500


----------



## mukumi

Anyone tried the Custom One Studio ? It looks like a COP but with improved sonic abilities of the DT-770. I'm keeping an eye on it.
  
 I actually own a COP and would like to upgrade but can't really find anything worth it actually (since I need a detachable cable to use the vmoda boom pro).


----------



## Spartoi

change is good said:


> SHP9500


 
  
  I had an X2 but had to sell it so this looks great but I'm reading that the bass is lacking? Even compared to Sennheiser headphones? Do you have any experience with the SPH9500?


----------



## Yethal

mukumi said:


> Anyone tried the Custom One Studio ? It looks like a COP but with improved sonic abilities of the DT-770. I'm keeping an eye on it.
> 
> I actually own a COP and would like to upgrade but can't really find anything worth it actually (since I need a detachable cable to use the vmoda boom pro).


 

 Or You can just buy DT770 drivers directly from Beyerdynamic and put them in the COP enclosure.


----------



## Change is Good

spartoi said:


> I had an X2 but had to sell it so this looks great but I'm reading that the bass is lacking? Even compared to Sennheiser headphones? Do you have any experience with the SPH9500?




Never tried any Senns, sorry. Bass is flat, not lacking like (let's say) an AD700. If you feel you want more bass and a flatter upper range, do the pad mod I linked a few pages back. I actually highly recommend it over stock.

Doesn't get any better than that for less than $100. The K612 and K7XX are the only two that I'd say are better at less than $200, and that's only because of their large soundstages.


----------



## Spartoi

change is good said:


> Never tried any Senns, sorry. Bass is flat, not lacking like (let's say) an AD700. If you feel you want more bass and a flatter upper range, do the pad mod I linked a few pages back. I actually highly recommend it over stock.
> 
> Doesn't get any better than that for less than $100. The K612 and K7XX are the only two that I'd say are better at less than $200, and that's only because of their large soundstages.


 
  
 I assume you are referring the tutorial you made?
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/717690/philips-shp9500-discussion-thread/660#post_12348812
  
 What pads would you recommend getting if I wanted more bass?


----------



## mukumi

yethal said:


> Or You can just buy DT770 drivers directly from Beyerdynamic and put them in the COP enclosure.


 
  
 I got two left hands. It would be like throwing money through the window


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Or You can just buy DT770 drivers directly from Beyerdynamic and put them in the COP enclosure.


 
 Woah, wait, what?  This is a thing?  Does it improve sound quality?  Is it worth it?  Cost?  SO MANY QUESTIONS.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Woah, wait, what?  This is a thing?  Does it improve sound quality?  Is it worth it?  Cost?  SO MANY QUESTIONS.



Well You put better drivers so I'd think it does.
It's cheaper than buying new headphones.
There is a guy in COP thread who put tesla drivers in cop enclosure and seems to be pleased with the result. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the user. I'd do it with my cop though and buy the dedicated microphone for an ultimate headset though.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Well You put better drivers so I'd think it does.
> It's cheaper than buying new headphones.
> There is a guy in COP thread who put tesla drivers in cop enclosure and seems to be pleased with the result. Whether it's worth it or not is up to the user. I'd do it with my cop though and buy the dedicated microphone for an ultimate headset though.


 
 Don't you _dare_ make me think of cancelling my purchase of the K7XX to instead get drivers to put in my COPs.  Is that what you're suggesting?!  (Because I might want to do that.)


----------



## mukumi

I've just picked up a Sennheiser PC 350 for 90€ brand new. Hope it'll be a nice option against the COP.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

zyker said:


> Don't you _dare_ make me think of cancelling my purchase of the K7XX to instead get drivers to put in my COPs.  Is that what you're suggesting?!  (Because I might want to do that.)


 

 I would say still get the K7XX, if they're anything like the K712, that soundstage is going to be amazing.


----------



## Evshrug

Iiiiiii think I knooooow, what Mad Lust Envyyyyyyy's next headphone review is ^___^


----------



## Change is Good

Pfff I been knew... (or think I do)

I just don't know which of the two models it is.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Don't you _dare_ make me think of cancelling my purchase of the K7XX to instead get drivers to put in my COPs.  Is that what you're suggesting?!  (Because I might want to do that.)



Tesla T1 drivers are 200 euro IIRC. Just sayin'


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Tesla T1 drivers are 200 euro IIRC. Just sayin'


 
 I wouldn't even know where to start to find those... Google has failed me!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Pfff I been knew... (or think I do)
> 
> I just don't know which of the two models it is.




Yes it's that new one. Just don't mention it yet, in case I need to deleted that post. I mean, I'm sure I can say what it is, not sure if he wants impressions on it yet, in which I jumped the gun. (Though he said to hold off until like the 21st, so I'm sure I'm ok).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Okay, so I mounted the Audeze vegan pads to the HE400 via the plastic rings

The sound is considerably warmer, bass is definitely bigger, but things sound weird. Like recessed. I dunno. More testing needed, and I have directly mount the pads for best effect. The pads sound better on the 'other' headphone..


edit: Oh wait, the orientation was bad. Time to retest.




^Proper orientation. I had the seam near the screw last time (not good). The headphone next to it is the Beyer MMX300... 


edit 2: Running Sinegen, ALL the HE400's bad properties are gone. The treble of death is gone. It is now a warm headphone. by default. Not overly warm or veiled, just no treble of death. 10khz still quite there, but not ear plitting anymore. I'd say 3.5khz is it's strong upper mid point now, which is never an issue.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> I wouldn't even know where to start to find those... Google has failed me!


 
 http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/spareparts/system-set-t-1.html
  
 Also, Beyerdynamic has a promotion, brand new Beyerdynamic Headzone for *only 690 euro. *Anyone?
  
 http://eastern-europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/headzone-headphone-surround-system.html
  
 Here is the thread started by the guy who modded his COP with Tesla divers: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784337/custom-t1-pro-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

edit: Ok, I took the vegan pads off the rings, and directly mounted (no glue) temporarily (clamp is holding them in place). Okay, it definitely improved. Don't use the rings. That weird cavernous sound is gone. The HE400 has never sounded this good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm an idiot.

I didn't realize the Audeze pads came already WITH a plastic ring inside, so when I tested it with the HE400 rings as well, I was getting a weird reverb/cavern effect due to the double rings in each pad.

Testing AGAIN with JUST the HE400 rings. No more cavern effect.

Change, give me time for these impressions.


----------



## Change is Good

All good man. Those vegans look hella comfy. If the sound (with the ring) is any where close to what you get with the focus pads, I may copp a pair.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I can say it is. Go for it.The pads are hella plush. I could've sworn Audeze pads were firm as hell.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Okay, so I mounted the Audeze vegan pads to the HE400 via the plastic rings
> 
> The sound is considerably warmer, bass is definitely bigger, but things sound weird. Like recessed. I dunno. More testing needed, and I have directly mount the pads for best effect. The pads sound better on the 'other' headphone..
> 
> ...




"C" what u did there MLE! Very nice


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love my HE400 again!


----------



## JBassFox

Hey Mad Lust. Thank you so much for all this info. I have a pair of 32 ohm 990s coming in the mail soon and I wanted to get a good DAC and amp to go between the headphones and my PS4. I see you give a lot of praise to the Modi/Magni combo. Does it pair well with DT990s when gaming? I've seen a few people mention they are still bright, so it has me a little worried. Do you have any other suggestions for DACs/amps to go with the PS4 and 990s?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Magni is not a good combo with the 990. Magni 2 maybe as I hear its warmer, but not sure. I recommend somethings warm to lessen the brightness.


----------



## JBassFox

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was specifically looking at the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber. Do you have any good suggestions of other amps and DACs for those warmer sounds? I'm looking for a pair no more expensive than $300, which I believe is the price of the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber combined. I'm very new DACs and amps.


----------



## lenroot77

jbassfox said:


> Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was specifically looking at the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber. Do you have any good suggestions of other amps and DACs for those warmer sounds? I'm looking for a pair no more expensive than $300, which I believe is the price of the Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber combined. I'm very new DACs and amps.




I think u should maybe check out the Vali 2 with a Modi 2 uber ... I preferred this combo over the Magni 2 uber/ Modi 2 uber. Loved the Vali/Modi combo with my q701's... The Magni/Modi and q701 gave me a headache. Just a little too bright. 

I should say that I'm not treble sensitive either.

Also u could look for a creative x7 on the cheap and that'd cover u also. Just do a bit of reading on it so u know what you are getting into. There's an excellent review and plenty of info on the x7 thread.


----------



## JBassFox

lenroot77 said:


> I think u should maybe check out the Vali 2 with a Modi 2 uber ... I preferred this combo over the Magni 2 uber/ Modi 2 uber. Loved the Vali/Modi combo with my q701's... The Magni/Modi and q701 gave me a headache. Just a little too bright.
> 
> I should say that I'm not treble sensitive either.
> 
> Also u could look for a creative x7 on the cheap and that'd cover u also. Just do a bit of reading on it so u know what you are getting into. There's an excellent review and plenty of info on the x7 thread.




Are tube amps good for gaming? Your honestly the first person I've heard suggest that. 

I saw the X7, but I also want to use this set up with other things outside of gaming and it also seems too bulky.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

y​I'd say the mini Schiit stack would have a similar footprint to the X7. The X7 would be a bit taller is all. Not that I think the X7 would pair up well with the 990, but at least a reduction in treble is easy to do on the X7. The X7 is super convenient. It does just as well outside of gaming.

Why wouldn't tube amps be good for gaming? Tube amps are just amps, if more musical.


----------



## lenroot77

Really regret selling my Vali 2, but I picked up the Gustard h10 again so all is well.


----------



## JBassFox

I honestly didn't know how good the X7 would be outside of gaming. It's also a little out of my price range as well. I'm definitely looking into a Vali 2/Modi 2U combo now, but still want to see if there are any other options before I buy the 2. I really wish there was a way to try all of these.


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> I think u should maybe check out the Vali 2 with a Modi 2 uber ... I preferred this combo over the Magni 2 uber/ Modi 2 uber. Loved the Vali/Modi combo with my q701's... The Magni/Modi and q701 gave me a headache. Just a little too bright.
> 
> I should say that I'm not treble sensitive either.
> 
> Also u could look for a creative x7 on the cheap and that'd cover u also. Just do a bit of reading on it so u know what you are getting into. There's an excellent review and plenty of info on the x7 thread.



And a review quoted in MLE's guide... More than one opinion is good!

The Vali is a decent entry level tube amp (IMO the bravo needs to be modded before it stands up against SS amps), though garage1217 tube amps are also high-value great entry level tube amps to consider as a second option. You could always get a tube amp first and use that with whatever DAC you have now, or a surround DAC. I chose to start using a tube amp like 4 years ago (I forget exactly) because tubes are best known for their smooth, liquid character, timbre, and sense of soundstage, all of things which I felt benefitted the harsh and explosive sounds of video games. The Vali isn't the most detailed or broadest soundstage amp... but it's relatively clean, and has a nice musical feeling to it.

Sample size of one so it's almost not worth mentioning, but my one buddy here in Pittsburgh who has a Vali (first gen) had to have his sent in because the tube had gotten lose and developed bad constant ringing, and he had to send it in because the amp isn't user serviceable. The second one he has now is starting I show the same issues. The Vali is designed to be a jumping-off point meant to eventually be replaced by something else (long before the tube would burn out), but it is a musical and fun starting point which I was quite impressed with in my auditions (before the ringing issues), and definitely has high enjoyment factor for the dollar.


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> And a review quoted in MLE's guide... More than one opinion is good!
> 
> The Vali is a decent entry level tube amp (IMO the bravo needs to be modded before it stands up against SS amps), though garage1217 tube amps are also high-value great entry level tube amps to consider as a second option. You could always get a tube amp first and use that with whatever DAC you have now, or a surround DAC. I chose to start using a tube amp like 4 years ago (I forget exactly) because tubes are best known for their smooth, liquid character, timbre, and sense of soundstage, all of things which I felt benefitted the harsh and explosive sounds of video games. The Vali isn't the most detailed or broadest soundstage amp... but it's relatively clean, and has a nice musical feeling to it.
> 
> Sample size of one so it's almost not worth mentioning, but my one buddy here in Pittsburgh who has a Vali (first gen) had to have his sent in because the tube had gotten lose and developed bad constant ringing, and he had to send it in because the amp isn't user serviceable. The second one he has now is starting I show the same issues. The Vali is designed to be a jumping-off point meant to eventually be replaced by something else (long before the tube would burn out), but it is a musical and fun starting point which I was quite impressed with in my auditions (before the ringing issues), and definitely has high enjoyment factor for the dollar.




I'm pretty sure the ringing issue has been fixed on the Vali 2. I never experienced it on the Vali 2 and it added more power. Very smooth piece of gear at a great price.
There's also the option of tube rolling with the second iteration.


----------



## JBassFox

Assuming I get a Vali, I'll probably get the second generation model so I can potentially experiment with different tubes. 

My last question is this: I got the 32 ohm DT990 Premiums because they were on sale for $150. I keep reading however that the 250ohm version is better when both are amped. Should I consider trading for the 250 version or is it not big enough of a difference to justify the swap. More likely than not, I'll mostly be using them when plugged through the DAC/amp, but may consider still using them without, especially if I travel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 250ohm is better. If you're gonna be amping, may as well go for the even better 600ohm. basically as long as you have a decent amp, get the 600ohm. The 32ohm is really kind of in a weird place. the 250ohm should be if the 600ohm isn't available, or if you have a very good small amp or more. 

Basically, just go for 600ohm if you have a desktop amp. It's rather efficient for 600ohm.

If by trading you mean returning and replacing, then yes. If you mean losing money for the trade, nah. They are all rather similar sounding.


----------



## lenroot77

jbassfox said:


> Assuming I get a Vali, I'll probably get the second generation model so I can potentially experiment with different tubes.
> 
> My last question is this: I got the 32 ohm DT990 Premiums because they were on sale for $150. I keep reading however that the 250ohm version is better when both are amped. Should I consider trading for the 250 version or is it not big enough of a difference to justify the swap. More likely than not, I'll mostly be using them when plugged through the DAC/amp, but may consider still using them without, especially if I travel.




If I already have a 32 ohm u may just consider going with a mix amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That too is an option, and saves money. The 32ohm is a fine DT990, btw. You're going from great, to greatt, to greattttt


----------



## JBassFox

Because they were on sale, I don't think they'll do an even swap (it was a sale on Focus Camera's eBay store). I would've bought the 250s originally, but they're still about $250+ (I don't want the clamping of the pro versions) and $150 seemed too good of a deal to pass up on the 32s. If I can find someone that wants to do an even trade, that might work, but I don't know if I want to wait for that. 

I have a small mix amp that I got with my Plantronics Rig headset, so I'll likely be using that until the Vali 2 and Modi 2U arrive, assuming that works.


----------



## Hendrycks

Hey, just wondering if the K7XX's will be loud enough through the Astro Mixamp without a good quality amp?


----------



## Jmatt110

Corsair just announced their new VOID Surround headset comes with a USB Dolby Headphone adapter. Thoughts? 

http://www.techpowerup.com/mobile/220275/corsair-gaming-announces-the-void-surround-headset.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

> The included USB Dolby 7.1 sound card unlocks genuine Dolby Surround for PC




There's your answer. The headset works with consoles, but not Dolby headphone, which is limited to PC.


----------



## Luiz Felipe

Guys im looking for a good setup for AK 712 Pro with MODMIC 4.0, i dont have sound card or DAC/AMP yet, only on-board card, and i want to play FPS like CS.GO without surround or 5.1 / 7.1 but i need the good combo to hear the footsteps, please i was loooking everywhere and all places, alot ppl do not have the answer i was looking for, so if u have a little time can u help me? Thanks anyway.
  
 Sry bad english


----------



## Zyker

luiz felipe said:


> Guys im looking for a good setup for AK 712 Pro with MODMIC 4.0, i dont have sound card or DAC/AMP yet, only on-board card, and i want to play FPS like CS.GO without surround or 5.1 / 7.1 but i need the good combo to hear the footsteps, please i was loooking everywhere and all places, alot ppl do not have the answer i was looking for, so if u have a little time can u help me? Thanks anyway.
> 
> Sry bad english


 
 I've heard good things about the Magni 2/Modi combination from Schiit, especially when people talk about AKG headphones.  
  
 Another option would be to get a sound card (such as the Sound Blaster Z) and an amp (like the Magni 2), if the card doesn't provide enough power to drive the headphones... I'm pretty sure a SB Z would provide enough power, though (if I'm wrong, please correct me, anyone!).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change: I dunno man, I'm testing it more, and the vegan pads seem to be making thinks a bit warm and spaced back. Going back and forth between the pads, it seems focus pads are more upfront (obviously due to drivers being pushed closer to the ears.)

But that Vegan comfort and bass. Hmm... I think it's gonna be a tradeoff I think about long and hard.

The vegan pads probably make sense for other Hifiman headphones that aren't upper mid deprived like the HE400.


----------



## stoke1863

does anyone else think the price for a Mod Mic is a bit steep in comparison to the quality?
  
 Its £40 here and V-Moda Boom Pro is £25, and listening to samples the Boom pro seems better


----------



## jthom320

mad lust envy said:


> There's your answer. The headset works with consoles, but not Dolby headphone, which is limited to PC.


 
 That's a shame.
  
 Little adapter like that and a pair of X2s/598s or some other easy to drive / high quality headphone would be the ticket for console gaming.
  
 I don't know why no audio company has figured out yet that there's a market for Dolby headphone with a strong amp.  Or at least the ability to build in a properly working line out to another amp.
  
 Creative, Astro hello?


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

stoke1863 said:


> does anyone else think the price for a Mod Mic is a bit steep in comparison to the quality?
> 
> Its £40 here and V-Moda Boom Pro is £25, and listening to samples the Boom pro seems better


 

 I think one of the main things you're paying for with the Modmic is that it's modular. Boom Pro requires a compatible headphone/adapter,  the Modmc you can just stick on favorite pair of headphones. 

 The nice thing about the Boom pro is that it only uses one cable for everything.


----------



## Yethal

Oh man, now I can hear how badly the Soundblaster extension cable is actually made.
  
 I had the extension cable plugged into my X7, and the HD598 short cable and ModMic (shortened) plugged into the extension. That's how I both played video games and listened to music (out of convenience mainly). 5 minutes ago I plugged the 598 into the X7 without the extension. Guess what? *Everything* sounds better. I thought I had a different headphone on my head.
  
 Bottom line: Don't use extension cables meant for gaming headsets to listen to music.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change: I dunno man, I'm testing it more, and the vegan pads seem to be making thinks a bit warm and spaced back. Going back and forth between the pads, it seems focus pads are more upfront (obviously due to drivers being pushed closer to the ears.)
> 
> But that Vegan comfort and bass. Hmm... I think it's gonna be a tradeoff I think about long and hard.
> 
> The vegan pads probably make sense for other Hifiman headphones that aren't upper mid deprived like the HE400.




Thanks for this. My only question now is how does it effect the highs?

Edit: I'm guessing it smooths the highs, which is probably not much of a good thing for the already smooth beautiful highs of the 400i.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it smooths the highs. For the overly prominent HE400, it's a godsend, but it also lowers other frequencies a bit, so it ends up being a bit of a blanket. So far, I definitely prefer the sound of the focus pads. It's the best Ive heard the HE400 with.

I don't think the additional driver distance helps the 400 in a good way.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

stoke1863 said:


> does anyone else think the price for a Mod Mic is a bit steep in comparison to the quality?
> 
> Its £40 here and V-Moda Boom Pro is £25, and listening to samples the Boom pro seems better


 
  
 If I'm being honest, yes to me the price of the ModMic is a bit steep compared to its mic quality. When I made the jump from gaming headsets to headphones last year, the only thing I missed from my retired headset (Plantronics Gamescom 780) was the mic. To my surprise and slight disappointment, its mic definitely edges out my selected ModMic 4.0. ModMic mic quality is not horrible, it's just O.K. I agree with @MonsieurNiceGuy below. Where the ModMic shines is that magnetic clasp/anchoring system. Every headphone I've had has accepted it with no issues (aside from the extra wire). That said, if you have headphones with a 3.5mm input cup-side, I'd say BoomPro all the way (ex. X2, MSR7, etc).
  


monsieurniceguy said:


> I think one of the main things you're paying for with the Modmic is that it's modular. Boom Pro requires a compatible headphone/adapter,  the Modmc you can just stick on favorite pair of headphones.
> 
> The nice thing about the Boom pro is that it only uses one cable for everything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Change, or rather the 1540 pads, which I forgot how they stack up to the Focus Pads, but I liked a lot (though got a bit hot).


----------



## rudyae86

hi-fi edu said:


> If I'm being honest, yes to me the price of the ModMic is a bit steep compared to its mic quality. When I made the jump from gaming headsets to headphones last year, the only thing I missed from my retired headset (Plantronics Gamescom 780) was the mic. To my surprise and slight disappointment, its mic definitely edges out my selected ModMic 4.0. ModMic mic quality is not horrible, it's just O.K. I agree with @MonsieurNiceGuy below. Where the ModMic shines is that magnetic clasp/anchoring system. Every headphone I've had has accepted it with no issues (aside from the extra wire). That said, if you have headphones with a 3.5mm input cup-side, I'd say BoomPro all the way (ex. X2, MSR7, etc).


 
 ^^^This


----------



## Hendrycks

I was wondering if anyone has used the AKG K7XX with an Astro Mixamp (mainly the TR Mixamp)? I'm wondering if an extra amp is needed to power them. Thanks!


----------



## Zyker

hendrycks said:


> I was wondering if anyone has used the AKG K7XX with an Astro Mixamp (mainly the TR Mixamp)? I'm wondering if an extra amp is needed to power them. Thanks!


 
 I was told that the mixamp would be fine for powering it (I think the person who told me said he used the same setup and it was fine).


----------



## Hendrycks

zyker said:


> I was told that the mixamp would be fine for powering it (I think the person who told me said he used the same setup and it was fine).




OK sweet! I was getting worried cause the headphones are already costing a ton since I'm in Canada. What's considered a decent portable DAC/amp for them though if I wanted to use them on my Nexus 6P? I was looking at the various FiiO models but I'm finding it hard to compare the models to each other lol


----------



## Zyker

hendrycks said:


> OK sweet! I was getting worried cause the headphones are already costing a ton since I'm in Canada. What's considered a decent portable DAC/amp for them though if I wanted to use them on my Nexus 6P? I was looking at the various FiiO models but I'm finding it hard to compare the models to each other lol


 
 Once again, I can only answer based on what I've read/heard... and I've heard good things about the Fiio E11K (a portable amp).  Supposedly, it's a nice little amp that doesn't break the bank.
  
 If I were to get a _normal_ amp, it would probably be a Magni 2... but I just don't need one, yet.  My Sound Blaster Z is sufficient for my A900Xs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't think something like a Fiio E11k will work well with a Mixamp, if you think it will help provide extra volume. It will barely do so. Not gonna over this again, but if and ever you think you need an amp for adding more volume than the Mixamp provides, you will need something with many times more power just to gain a few decibels. That's how power works. I'm sure the E11k is fine for it's own uses, but you better think of something MORE if you plan on juicing stuff with the Mixamp in tow. E12 at the very least, E9 or other desktops are recommended...

Found this online:

dB Change (1st number) Sound pressure change (2nd number) Power change (3rd number)
+3 x 1.41 x 2
+6 x 2 x 4
+10 x 3.16 x 10
+20 x 10 x 100
+40 x 100 x 10,000

That's right, if you want 6 decibels extra over something like the Mixamp, you need 4 times the power. 6db is about a starting point for a noticeable difference, IMHO (since some headphones may sound weak off the Mixamp and will need a massive power difference to get them to sound good in volume. 10x is my recommendation as a STARTING point, hence why I say Fiio E12 or more.

Gain also plays a factor, which I won't even get to here. I had a monster desktop amp in the SA-31, but the gain was limited, and I found weaker amps providing more volume with less play off the volume.

Another thing I saw is 10x the power = around twice the loudness. So say going from low to moderate is like using 10 times the amount of energy needed.

I remember a time when I chained a Mixamp with TWO Fiio E5s, and not getting a hint of difference in volume. Back when I was a complete idiot think adding low power would add to volume little by little. It obviously didn't. Stupid.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The G5's 7.1 SBX is gimped or weird and we need to gather all folks who own it to do some recordings and *since not everyone is following the G5 thread I am posting this here as well*. As I don't have a SBZ or X7 anymore (which provide the same SBX experience) I can only provide the G5 recordings.
  
 I need someone with a PC who has similar games and wants to provide a few videos, not much. 
  
 here's my post about it:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/790796/creative-g5-discussion-and-reviews/210#post_12355051
  


fegefeuer said:


> *Sometimes there is a bug where the speakers in the control panel of Windows not positioned properly*.
> What you need to do is set the G5 to stereo headphones in the Creative panel then close it and go to speaker settings under the control panel of Windows and manually set it to 7.1. It will synchronize with the Creative panel but do it right.
> 
> 1) *the X7 is the superior SQ device* compared to the G5 as in *driving headphones like the HD 650 noticably better*, however that is NOT the reason for the weird SBX. The SBX problem is an inherent problem.
> ...


 
  
  
 due to very limited time I haven't done much experimentation about it thus I'll start now as the SBX of the G5 was immediately different from day one up to the latest drivers. Haven't tested the new 5.1 feature yet. (previously there was only 7.1 available)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But isn't it known that the G5 uses a stereo algorithm instead of a true surround one for SBX, which is why it's not as good? Or am I thinking of another device?


----------



## 422561

You're thinking of the E5. The G5 is the "surround" update to the E5. I deliberately used the word update rather than upgrade as it seems the "surround" in it isn't much better than the E5.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> But isn't it known that the G5 uses a stereo algorithm instead of a true surround one for SBX, which is why it's not as good? Or am I thinking of another device?


 
  
 It's strictly about the 7.1 SBX (5.1 was added last week) for the PC which sooner or later will also come for consoles (right now only weirdo 2.0 SBX).


----------



## Zyker

mad lust envy said:


> Don't think something like a Fiio E11k will work well with a Mixamp, if you think it will help provide extra volume. It will barely do so. Not gonna over this again, but if and ever you think you need an amp for adding more volume than the Mixamp provides, you will need something with many times more power just to gain a few decibels. That's how power works. I'm sure the E11k is fine for it's own uses, but you better think of something MORE if you plan on juicing stuff with the Mixamp in tow. E12 at the very least, E9 or other desktops are recommended...


 
 He asked about a portable amp for his phone, so that's why I suggested the E11k... is it powerful enough for that?


----------



## Whofch

Sorry for butting in but would just like a little advice. I've had this thread on my favourites for years and check it regularly just to read as I find it interesting, with MLE doing a fantastic job, and now hoping the people here may be able to help me. A lot of the audio technical terms fly over my head so picking isn't quite as easy as just reading about them.
  
 I currently use a set of sennheiser  HD598s and beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250s (both connecting to a creative X7) depending on my mood. The 598s have been fantastic for me over the years but recently I've been moving away from them and sticking with the 990s. After years of use, just started getting a little bored of the Sennheisers and the beyers are definitely more fun.
  
 My question is, is there something that's possibly a step up from these?
  
 I had the opportunity to test out some HD800s not long ago and was disappointed by how little difference I could hear from the 598s. There was a difference, just not a 4+ times the price difference. perhaps I'm just not that keen eared when it comes to audio to notice it or perhaps the X7 is just not a sufficient device for it (which I've read is possibly so). In any case, they were one of the most uncomfortable things I've worn.
  
 As for what I'd do with them: gaming as the priority, followed by tv/film and music. I really am an all-rounder when it comes to all of these. Games of all kind, be it where immersion is most important or where positional audio is key, I play it all. Same for music, I hop all over the genre spectrum picking favourites out of each.
  
 Since I'm prefering the 990s more atm, perhaps some headphones that do everything that they can but do it better? I know from reading this thread for so long, it's rarely that simple.
  
 Price isn't really an issue, as long as it's a worthy step up and I'd rather not ditch the X7 as it's so convenient, so something that pairs well with that would be a plus. Also, after trying the HD800s, I'd have to say comfort is rather important too  598s were rather nice and the 990s, whilst initially overly clampy, they feel amazing when loosened up a little.
  
 Cheers for any input, even if it's just to tell me to go back to page 1 or to just stick with what I have ^^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you like the 990 v shaped sound, try perhaps the Fostex headphones like the TH900. Perhaps even the TH-X00 thgough I dunno how they sound, though I hear it's close to my venerable D7000. I'd aim for the TH-X00.


----------



## Whofch

Cheers, MLE. After reading your review on the TH600/900, I assumed that Fostex would probably end up as a recommended try (and kind of hoping too. You made them sound good ).
  
 As I continue the never ending browsing of many headphones out there, I'll keep my eyes peeled for the TH-X00 to become available
  
 Again, cheers ^^.


----------



## audiophizile

Does anyone in here have experience with the k553 in gaming? I just dropped out of the drop for the k7xx as I decided that open cans are really not ideal for my environment. In reading about the k553 it sounds like it can get you pretty close to the k7xx in a lot of ways with a more neutral sound but I've not read about it directly used for gaming. I read the headband isn't great but that's an easy fix. Also read about the potential seal issue which can be resolved easily as well. Really would just like to know how they SOUND for GAMING. I would love some Alpha Dogs but the budget isn't even close to there


----------



## Zyker

audiophizile said:


> Does anyone in here have experience with the k553 in gaming? I just dropped out of the drop for the k7xx as I decided that open cans are really not ideal for my environment. In reading about the k553 it sounds like it can get you pretty close to the k7xx in a lot of ways with a more neutral sound but I've not read about it directly used for gaming. I read the headband isn't great but that's an easy fix. Also read about the potential seal issue which can be resolved easily as well. Really would just like to know how they SOUND for GAMING. I would love some Alpha Dogs but the budget isn't even close to there


 
 I'll just throw in my two cents... I was looking into the K553 Pro not too long ago because I had heard about it and was curious.  I'm currently using an Audio Technica A900X but wondered if the K553 would be an upgrade.  Well, I read a few comparisons and, apparently, people like the A900Xs more, saying that they're more musical and have a better soundstage (which is super good for gaming).  I have to agree with the soundstage since I moved to the A900X from the AD700 (which has a massive soundstage), yet still thought the soundstage sounded excellent (for a closed pair of headphones).
  
 IMO, I'd look into the A900X.  It seems to be going for a similar price to the K553 on Amazon.


----------



## audiophizile

zyker said:


> I'll just throw in my two cents... I was looking into the K553 Pro not too long ago because I had heard about it and was curious.  I'm currently using an Audio Technica A900X but wondered if the K553 would be an upgrade.  Well, I read a few comparisons and, apparently, people like the A900Xs more, saying that they're more musical and have a better soundstage (which is super good for gaming).  I have to agree with the soundstage since I moved to the A900X from the AD700 (which has a massive soundstage), yet still thought the soundstage sounded excellent (for a closed pair of headphones).
> 
> IMO, I'd look into the A900X.  It seems to be going for a similar price to the K553 on Amazon.


 

 Your comment made me get back in on the drop haha. I can find a way to make my room quieter or worse case have to order the k553 or a900x later to compare. Hard to pass up the k7xx at 199. My current HM5s don't isolate very well to begin with. From everything I've heard about the k7xx I really shouldn't be disappointed.


----------



## dakanao

Does the Turtle Beach DSS 1 drive the K7xx well with good sound quality?


----------



## Zyker

dakanao said:


> Does the Turtle Beach DSS 1 drive the K7xx well with good sound quality?


 
 I've tried to do some research on this but am not finding a lot... from what I've read, the DSS _should _be able to drive them fine.  
  
 That being said, I would consider the Mixamp.  Mine has amazing quality and, I think, can drive higher impedance cans than the DSS 1. 
  
 (Once again, please feel free to correct me, anyone!)


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## Evshrug

The DSS1's amp is stronger than the wired Mixamp. The Mixamp's amp is it's most pedestrian and (IMO) weakest feature.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the impedance of a headphone is only part of what defines the volume or power required of a headphone... e.g. the K612 needs a higher volume dial setting on any amp than the 600 ohm DT880 for the same apparent listening-level volume. Sensitivity plays a role here, as well as earcup/pad design. When looking at an amp, I look at the mW rating as the standard for comparison to other amps, not the "good for headphones up to 600 ohms" rating.


----------



## Zyker

evshrug said:


> The DSS1's amp is stronger than the wired Mixamp. The Mixamp's amp is it's most pedestrian and (IMO) weakest feature.
> Another thing to keep in mind is that the impedance of a headphone is only part of what defines the volume or power required of a headphone... e.g. the K612 needs a higher volume dial setting on any amp than the 600 ohm DT880 for the same apparent listening-level volume. Sensitivity plays a role here, as well as earcup/pad design. When looking at an amp, I look at the mW rating as the standard for comparison to other amps, not the "good for headphones up to 600 ohms" rating.


 
 Thanks for clearing all that up!  I was really stonewalled when I was trying to look information up on how much the DSS1 could drive... the most I could find was people saying, "Yes, it works on X headphone."
  
 Anyway, this is all really great information.


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## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> If you like the 990 v shaped sound, try perhaps the Fostex headphones like the TH900. Perhaps even the TH-X00 thgough I dunno how they sound, though I hear it's close to my venerable D7000. I'd aim for the TH-X00.




Some other headphones rated high for "fun" could be the Phillips X2, something from the Hifiman HE-400 series (400, 400s, 400i), and for a closed "fun" option in addition to the Fostex could be ZMF's Vibro MKII... the ZMF has a u-shape and great balance of thick/thin body to the mids (it will feel thicker than the HD598) and the bass will have greater impact.

The ZMF was modded from a Fostex T50RP mk3, but with the new custom pads and wood earcups, the sound signature is totally changed. Sounds good on the X7, most comfortably on the "high gain" setting.


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## Whofch

Ta, Ev. Will look into all of those too ^^
  
  This whole 'find some new headphones' game is both exciting and stressful


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## jynxed

Been bought a pair of HD800, and was wondering if I shoud add an X7 to the shoping list? Would it sound decent enough to make them sound nice with the ps4? Or is there anything else I should be looking at? 

Not intending to do this for a bit but eventually would like to give it a try as I bet they would be amazing.


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## Change is Good

I wouldn't categorize the 400i and 400S as "fun" from the HE-400 line, unless one considers a flat tone to be so.


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## canthearyou

change is good said:


> I wouldn't categorize the 400i and 400S as "fun" from the HE-400 line, unless one considers a flat tone to be so.




400i is flat?? Who would've thought! If the 400i is a flat tone the K7XX is a completely dead tone.


----------



## Change is Good

Funny I guess it depends on what you mean by "fun" because when I compared both side by side on two different occasions the K7XX had more bass presence, not to mention it's larger soundstage. The 400i's bass was tight and quick, yes, but less prominent when compared, numerous times side by side.

Bass on the 400i takes a back seat to the mids and treble. It's more analytical, to me, compared to the K7XX. If you call that "fun" then we just have different interpretations. To me, that's flat but I have mild basshead ears


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## canthearyou

change is good said:


> Funny I guess it depends on what you mean by "fun" because when I compared both side by side on two different occasions the K7XX had more bass presence, not to mention it's larger soundstage. The 400i's bass was tight and quick, yes, but less prominent when compared, numerous times side by side.
> 
> Bass on the 400i takes a back seat to the mids and treble. It's more analytical, to me, compared to the K7XX. If you call that "fun" then we just have different interpretations. To me, that's flat but I have mild basshead ears




It sounds like you and I have different meanings for "fun". Lol. I consider the sparkly, energetic sound of the 400i as fun. And the neutral, flat, dull sound of the K7XX as, well, not fun.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, yeah everyone has different interpretations of "fun" or even "immersive"... For the purposes of MLE's guide, "immersive" means a strong "IMAX THEATHER" like bass, but personally I find headphones immersive if they sound so realistic and transparent (with good soundstage) where it sounds like something in the room with me is making the sounds in my game.

Of course, that kind of immersion only happens fleetingly with only a few headphones, so compared to the IMAX experience I'm setting myself up for disappointment, lol. Still, I have fun even with $80-$140 headphones, but I appreciate the climb to more believable sound too.

When I just listed a few headphones for "fun," I was not particularly thinking "bass" (especially since the DT990 has quite a fair share of treble which could also be the source of fun for some), just kind of like "more colorful than life." The Kodachrome of music/audio, if you will.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Woah, woah, woah. Fun doesn't need to be IMAX theater bass. No one would say the Alpha Dog, or some others have ridiculous bass, yet they score very highly on fun for me.

Good bass presentation is definitely a factor, but overstated bass doesn't mean it's automatically fun.

I have a preference for a bass tilt for fun, but I do have a point where it can be too much. Like a more recent example where I have the Sennheiser PX95 and the PMX95. Both should be identical, but the PX95 has too much bass for me, and the PMX95 has a very agreeable amount.


----------



## Sam21

http://webstore.vlsi.fi/HeaDSPeakerHome


----------



## mukumi

Just noticed that Sound Blaster released a firmware for the E5 which adds Virtual Surround. It might be a good option for me in the future if my dss2 cannot handle the PC350 150ohm. Can't wait to give it a try but I still have a few hours at work 
  
 But I might jump on the wagon so that I can remove some cables from my desk (xonar u3+dss2 + optical cable + xfi hd) :s


----------



## RiddleyWalker

So I have a question that I hope hasn't been answered too many times already in this thread.
  
 I have a PS4 and I'm looking for the best quality DAC/amp solution for headphone surround sound.  I'm not worried about having mic capability, or wireless.  Is the Creative X7 the best product for what I'm looking for, or is there a better option that utilizes maybe Dolby Headphone?
  
 Thanks!


----------



## rambutan

mukumi said:


> Just noticed that Sound Blaster released a firmware for the E5 which adds Virtual Surround. It might be a good option for me in the future if my dss2 cannot handle the PC350 150ohm. Can't wait to give it a try but I still have a few hours at work
> 
> But I might jump on the wagon so that I can remove some cables from my desk (xonar u3+dss2 + optical cable + xfi hd) :s


 
  
 Definitely keep us updated!
  
 Another alternative for consoles would be great. Does the E5 work as a mic input device on PS4?


----------



## Fegefeuer

jynxed said:


> Been bought a pair of HD800, and was wondering if I shoud add an X7 to the shoping list? Would it sound decent enough to make them sound nice with the ps4? Or is there anything else I should be looking at?
> 
> Not intending to do this for a bit but eventually would like to give it a try as I bet they would be amazing.


 
  
 There is nothing better that's similarly affordable so just go ahead and get the X7. It will still be an amazing experience.


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## Evshrug

rambutan said:


> Definitely keep us updated!
> 
> Another alternative for consoles would be great. Does the E5 work as a mic input device on PS4?




Yes it does. You get stereo on PS4 (it cannot decode Dolby or DTS), but the setup is super easy: you just unplug your controller, use the same cable to plug in the E5, and VOILA instant gaming setup without need for a boompro, better amp than a Mixamp, and line out/optical to better gear if you wanna go crazy!

Now you know why I was hyped for the G5, before it came out also without the console surround? I have a pretty positive review of the E5 up (maybe in my signature). It's replaced the FiiO E12 for any purpose of mine, also a transport, also a Bluetooth bridge for any headphone, also...


----------



## Ni6htWalker

a nooby question,what is the idea to use a DAC with the Astro Mixamp?is to get a louder sound from the astro mixamp?


----------



## AxelCloris

ni6htwalker said:


> a nooby question,what is the idea to use a DAC with the Astro Mixamp?is to get a louder sound from the astro mixamp?


 
  
 You cannot use a DAC with the Mixamp, it is the DAC. You can only connect an amp or headphones. People often use amps to either add more volume or to properly drive harder headphones at the current volume.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

axelcloris said:


> You cannot use a DAC with the Mixamp, it is the DAC. You can only connect an amp or headphones. People often use amps to either add more volume or to properly drive harder headphones at the current volume.


 

 ahh ok!!thank you for enlighten my mind,i was thinking to get a DAC to use with the astro mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That would be absolutely redundant. I mean, you WANT a DAC+AMP whenever you're NOT using the Mixamp, for other purposes, like music.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

I _get confused_


mad lust envy said:


> That would be absolutely redundant. I mean, you WANT a DAC+AMP whenever you're NOT using the Mixamp, for other purposes, like music.


 

_got it man!!!_


----------



## rambutan

evshrug said:


> Yes it does. You get stereo on PS4 (it cannot decode Dolby or DTS), but the setup is super easy: you just unplug your controller, use the same cable to plug in the E5, and VOILA instant gaming setup without need for a boompro, better amp than a Mixamp, and line out/optical to better gear if you wanna go crazy!
> 
> Now you know why I was hyped for the G5, before it came out also without the console surround? I have a pretty positive review of the E5 up (maybe in my signature). It's replaced the FiiO E12 for any purpose of mine, also a transport, also a Bluetooth bridge for any headphone, also...


 
  
 Oh, I guess I was mistaken. I thought the firmware update was to finally have the E5 support virtual surround for consoles. If it's just stereo, then I have no interest in the E5 unfortunately. It's back to DSS1 + USB sound card for me.


----------



## Evshrug

There are times when I wish proper surround didn't make such a positive difference in immersion... But it really does (at least in my favorite games)


----------



## Smiped

Is the sennheiser HD 598 still up there in terms of competitive gaming? I need a headset that is good for positional hearing for games like FPS. I don't need immersiveness and bass. Would you guys still recommend the sennheiser HD 598 for competitive gaming? I know this thread is kind of old so I want to make sure the scores are still relevant.


----------



## jthom320

smiped said:


> Is the sennheiser HD 598 still up there in terms of competitive gaming? I need a headset that is good for positional hearing for games like FPS. I don't need immersiveness and bass. Would you guys still recommend the sennheiser HD 598 for competitive gaming? I know this thread is kind of old so I want to make sure the scores are still relevant.


 

 It's still top tier.
  
 But there's a lot of new headphones like the Fidelio X2's and K7XX's that are as good competitively and have better SQ for not a whole lot more.
  
 Still though can't go wrong with a 598.


----------



## Smiped

jthom320 said:


> It's still top tier.
> 
> But there's a lot of new headphones like the Fidelio X2's and K7XX's that are as good competitively and have better SQ for not a whole lot more.
> 
> Still though can't go wrong with a 598.


 
  
 Oh, but doesn't the X2 according to MLE's review have a 8.25 in terms of competitiveness and the HD 598 have a 9.25 in terms of competitiveness. Why are they equal in terms of audio positioning if the HD 598 has a better rating?
  
 Sorry I am a laymen and don't know much of this audiophile stuff.


----------



## kellte2

smiped said:


> Oh, but doesn't the X2 according to MLE's review have a 8.25 in terms of competitiveness and the HD 598 have a 9.25 in terms of competitiveness. Why are they equal in terms of audio positioning if the HD 598 has a better rating?
> 
> Sorry I am a laymen and don't know much of this audiophile stuff.




Shouldn't compare scores. Been posted many, many times on this thread.


----------



## Yethal

And now we know why MLE decided to drop the scores altogether.


----------



## AxelCloris

jthom320 said:


> It's still top tier.
> 
> But there's a lot of new headphones like the Fidelio X2's and K7XX's that are as good competitively and have better SQ for not a whole lot more.
> 
> Still though can't go wrong with a 598.


 
  
 A matter of opinion, really. While it's been some time since I last heard the HD 598 I can still tell you that I've come into several headphones that far surpass it for competitive gaming. The HD 598 may be top tier in its price range, but to my ears it's certainly not top tier overall.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would still say the 598 does better than the X2 competitively. Wouldn't knowe about the K7XX but I'd think they'd be close to one another.

You're picking an orange from a slightly different orange. They're still going to do very similarly competitively.

And yes, this is a reasons scores are gone soonish. If I had said scores are comparable and gave onbe a .00001 victory, people would dismiss the other headphone. It's ridiculous how people look for a number and it's all they need to make a decision, when this is all based on my opinions, and reading a review will better tell you if a headphone is right for you.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

i recomend you the AD700 pretty good phones for competitive.


----------



## jthom320

I'm off the opinion that the difference in 'soundstage' is greatly exaggerated.  And by that I mean nearly every open headphone that's competently built has a good soundstage.  (I'm talking about dynamics here mostly) The differences between good and great is so small as to be insignificant.  

 That's why I'd say 598 is still top tier.  I'm sorry I just don't buy that someone makes a play in Counterstrike or CoD with an HD 800 that he can't make with a 598, an AKG a Fidelio or whatever else.
  
 A huge part of the reason I hold this opinion is we are talking about headphones.  Not a surround speaker set up.  SHouldn't really need to elaborate further there.


----------



## Yethal

Sometimes when I listen to music or watch a movie with the HD598 I have to double check if I switched the X7 to headphone mode because it sounds as if the sound is coming from the speakers and not from the drivers right next to my ears. I'd like to upgrade sometime this year but I don't want to lose on that feeling. I'm kinda on the fence between HD700 and Shure SRH1840 (they cost about the same in Poland). Any thoughts, or opinions?


----------



## Zyker

Maybe you can offer me some clarification... I'm now thinking of just getting a Creative X7 for my PS4 (since I'm running a Sound Blaster Z on my PC, I'd probably just get an Magni 2, if I were to do anything for that).  It can do surround when it's connected to a console, right?  And I also keep reading that it has trouble with mic stuff when it's connected to a console... the diagram on page 1 shows some adapter for it but I'm not sure what that adapter does.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Maybe you can offer me some clarification... I'm now thinking of just getting a Creative X7 for my PS4 (since I'm running a Sound Blaster Z on my PC, I'd probably just get an Magni 2, if I were to do anything for that).  It can do surround when it's connected to a console, right?  And I also keep reading that it has trouble with mic stuff when it's connected to a console... the diagram on page 1 shows some adapter for it but I'm not sure what that adapter does.


 

 Basically, the X7 can only transmit the mic input over USB or Bluetooth. And since it can't work on PS4 via Bluetooth (it requires a proprietary driver) the other way is to pair it via Bluetooth with the BT-W2 adapter and use that for chat. The difference between the BT-W2 adapter and other BT adapters is that it is recognized as a USB Audio device and works on PS4.


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> Sometimes when I listen to music or watch a movie with the HD598 I have to double check if I switched the X7 to headphone mode because it sounds as if the sound is coming from the speakers and not from the drivers right next to my ears. I'd like to upgrade sometime this year but I don't want to lose on that feeling. I'm kinda on the fence between HD700 and Shure SRH1840 (they cost about the same in Poland). Any thoughts, or opinions?


 

 I've owned HD 700's and I'd recommend against them.  Like heavily.  It's a weird headphone because in a sense you can hear why they priced it originally at 1000 dollars.  Incredibly resolving and detailed.  FAST bass.  Fast decay.  Incredible.  For SBX or DH great.  Not only that but they're ultra comfortable.  Better then Alpha Pads.  Better then anything I've used.
  
 But if you are sensitive to treble at all they will hurt after an hour or so.  The headphone is bright and it makes thing's sound off.  You almost can't place your finger on it but music just doesn't sound good despite the fact that it's got a lot of top tier qualities.
  
 If you ran it through tubes or something it may be better I don't know but I really regretted buying them.  Luckily I got them when they were close to 400 dollars and I made out okay in then.
  
 As always YMMV.
  
 Never heard the 1840's.


----------



## Yethal

jthom320 said:


> I've owned HD 700's and I'd recommend against them.  Like heavily.  It's a weird headphone because in a sense you can hear why they priced it originally at 1000 dollars.  Incredibly resolving and detailed.  FAST bass.  Fast decay.  Incredible.  For SBX or DH great.  Not only that but they're ultra comfortable.  Better then Alpha Pads.  Better then anything I've used.
> 
> But if you are sensitive to treble at all they will hurt after an hour or so.  The headphone is bright and it makes thing's sound off.  You almost can't place your finger on it but music just doesn't sound good despite the fact that it's got a lot of top tier qualities.
> 
> ...


 

 Thanks for the input. I'm really looking for headphones that will offer me soundstage at least as big as the 598 but more detailed and with a little more bass (which 598 lacks unfortunately).


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> Thanks for the input. I'm really looking for headphones that will offer me soundstage at least as big as the 598 but more detailed and with a little more bass (which 598 lacks unfortunately).


 

 I'm of the opinion the 700's are really close to being a 10/10 headphone it's just the problem they have is incredibly irritating.
  
 I was looking for the same thing you were and ended up on Fidelio X2s.  I'd highly recommend them.  They are more resolving then 598s.  Some very slight grain to the treble but nothing you can't live with.  I find the midrange just as pleasing as the bass but I've seen some people say it's slightly pushed back.  May depend on amplification.  I don't know that there is a more subjective tech type of hobby then audio so you know how that can go.  
  
 1840's do look like a cool headphone though.  If you do end up with them I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Yethal

If the only problem with them is the treble then I don't know if it's such a big deal. It can be fixed with proper EQ, can it?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Sometimes when I listen to music or watch a movie with the HD598 I have to double check if I switched the X7 to headphone mode because it sounds as if the sound is coming from the speakers and not from the drivers right next to my ears. I'd like to upgrade sometime this year but I don't want to lose on that feeling. I'm kinda on the fence between HD700 and Shure SRH1840 (they cost about the same in Poland). Any thoughts, or opinions?




Though I haven't heard the HD700, I'd recommend it over the 1840. The Shure is a wonderful, pleasantly detailed open headphone. It has a flawed distortion, however, in the lower frequencies that is very unnatural. It's almost unnoticeable because it's a bass light sound signature, but once it grasps your attention it becomes annoying (considering it's going price).

I had both it and the 1540 at the same time. The 1540 was a bit distorted down low, as well, but that was because of the alcantara pads. Once I put alpha pads on there, it sounded MUCH better and no longer distorted. The same could no be said for the 1840, because it was a grain-like distortion from the drivers (which led me to assume the 1540 and 1840 use different drivers). The alpha pads on the 1840 only made it more noticeable.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> If the only problem with them is the treble then I don't know if it's such a big deal. It can be fixed with proper EQ, can it?




I've come to learn that treble is the easiest frequency to fix without EQ, and can be done by either dampening or using doggie treats from MrSpeakers.


----------



## jthom320

yethal said:


> If the only problem with them is the treble then I don't know if it's such a big deal. It can be fixed with proper EQ, can it?


 
  
  
 Sure.  Of course.
  
 I'm not really into EQing headphones myself.  I just tend to think that there are better cheaper options.  X2's, K7xx's, DT 880s, MA900's  etc etc.


----------



## Change is Good

jthom320 said:


> Sure.  Of course.
> 
> I'm not really into EQing headphones myself.  I just tend to think that there are better cheaper options.  X2's, K7xx's, DT 880s, MA900's  etc etc.




Those are 'cheaper' options, 'better' is highly subjective.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I've come to learn that treble is the easiest frequency to fix without EQ, and can be done by either dampening or using doggie treats from MrSpeakers.


 
 https://mrspeakers.com/shop/3-accessories/doggie-treats-tweaking-kit/
  
 This thing? I've read the description but I don't really get how inserting a disc underneath the ear pad would smooth out the treble.


----------



## jthom320

change is good said:


> Those are 'cheaper' options, 'better' is highly subjective.


 
  
 Clearly.  It's a discussion forum.
  
 The HD 700's were a failure for Senn.  It's why the price has plummeted.  I understand the temptation coming from a gamer perspective when you read about them they sound like they could be your end game set.  But I've been there and done that.
  
 I'll not argue the point any further but I will say that you really ought to try and listen to them before you buy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish it were easy to go out and try headphones before buying. We don't really have many outlets to experience popular headphones, save for a few special stores here and there, which are few and far between.

Most of the time, we are definitely buying blindly.

I almost always recommend on just waiting on other's impressions on basic terminologies of sound, from soundstage, bass, midrange, etc. I hardly ever listen to the hyperbolic stuff like "OMG this headphone has the best bass, mids, treble, detail, soundstage, etc. You have to have a fair amount of skepticism and just try and pay attention to sound signature comments, and easy stuff to understand. Well balanced, bassy, bright, etc.


----------



## Evshrug

smiped said:


> Is the sennheiser HD 598 still up there in terms of competitive gaming? I need a headset that is good for positional hearing for games like FPS. I don't need immersiveness and bass. Would you guys still recommend the sennheiser HD 598 for competitive gaming? I know this thread is kind of old so I want to make sure the scores are still relevant.







yethal said:


> And now we know why MLE decided to drop the scores altogether.




This is why we're dropping the scores on the new, wiki, beginner's guide version of MLE's gaming headphone guide we're working on. The scores are gone already.

IMO, if you can get the HD598 for $100, get it. Will be quite good compared to most $100 headphones. However, and also my opinion (based on listening), if you find AKG Q701's or K612 within $30 of the HD598, then the AKG's are a little less grainy, have more soundstage, and a better balance with bass extension and stuff. Both headphones won't let you down, however I'd pick an AKG.





yethal said:


> Sometimes when I listen to music or watch a movie with the HD598 I have to double check if I switched the X7 to headphone mode because it sounds as if the sound is coming from the speakers and not from the drivers right next to my ears. I'd like to upgrade sometime this year but I don't want to lose on that feeling. I'm kinda on the fence between HD700 and Shure SRH1840 (they cost about the same in Poland). Any thoughts, or opinions?



*Intro*
I had the HD700 for about a month last year, did my X7 review while making the HD700 my main headphone for testing.

*My Description*
 My listening notes talk about how I did find the shape, headband, and ear room very comfortable, but the slick feeling of the microfiber pads was odd and with hours of gaming the weight stood out. The HD700 weight was well-distributed but I could appreciate the 100g less of the K712, which would be even more different once you take into account the cables (the HD700 has thick, dual-entry cables).

Tonally, it was thicker than my AKGs and honestly the treble didn't bother me (despite a few uneven peaks and valleys), though for longer sessions I did use my X7 to turn down the treble a bit... though I wished the X7's equalizer had more granular control over more frequencies. I got used to the HD700 so much that the K712 sounded thin... Brain burn in! However, it didn't do soundstage as well or wide or as convincingly as the K712. I was hoping for some of the HD800 soundstage DNA that I'd heard praised so much, but it failed to impress nor transport me to the orchestra hall, so I'd rate the soundstage as above average or maybe just average. A/B'ing it was obvious that the HD700 had elevated bass & lower mids, but also a little bloom and smeared out details I could hear on the K712, so I'd say in that respect the HD700 sacrifices a little mids and bass crispness for "musicality" and a thicker tone.

*Thicker Tone?*
This thicker tone has actually been on my mind lately, because I've been enjoying the body and timbre on the ZMF Vibro MKII I'm testing now, so it has some of the HD700's thickness but it's still got a fair bit of crispness... IIRC, the ZMF does tone & detail better. I feel like I'm sacrificing very little compared to my AKGs' detail while gaining a little more gutsy timbre.

*Drawing Conclusions*
I think the HD700 was designed to be very much an all-rounder and I think they hit "very good" in almost every area, plus it looks awesome. It was also an educational and enjoyable experience, and I could see someone using an HD700 for a few months or a year if they really liked it. Ultimately though, for it's price and weight, I would expect a Hi-Fi headphone to have a few excellent or amazing areas, but I just don't feel it had those, plus the treble was uneven. Though I got the HD700 for a very good market price, I didn't get that high-end wow feeling or even that it performed better than $250 alternatives, so I sold it.



TA DA! Mini review! Man, I'm actually having a harder time writing my Vibro review, because I really like it and want to do it justice by saying _why_.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Basically, the X7 can only transmit the mic input over USB or Bluetooth. And since it can't work on PS4 via Bluetooth (it requires a proprietary driver) the other way is to pair it via Bluetooth with the BT-W2 adapter and use that for chat. The difference between the BT-W2 adapter and other BT adapters is that it is recognized as a USB Audio device and works on PS4.


 
 Well, that makes sense... it's kind of funny that BT-W2 adapter works but the basic X7 doesn't.
  
 What do you know about the Creative E-MU MX7 speakers?  They're free with a purchase of the X7 from Creative, right now... would they work well as a desktop PC speaker?  I'm currently sporting a set of Creative I-trigue L3800s.


----------



## jthom320

HD 700 can alternate between thick/warm and bright/thin.  You can see it in the frequency graph.  The big issue isn't so much elevated treble but the fact that it has two large peaks and equally as large valleys.  Depending on what you are listening to the headphone can sound very different.


----------



## Evshrug

Agreed, I also pointed out the treble peaks and valleys... why I called the treble uneven. Some pitches hit those highs and they can sound a bit too sharp, but it sounds weirder with an 8-band EQ reduction in treble because then the usual parts of treble seem recessed. If the audio has anything present in the lower-mids and lower, the thicker body/timbre (which IMO was a nice thing) is there. The bloom is also always there, not a huge amount of it but music on the AKG (or other stuff I've heard like my $300 vintage Stax, Oppo PM-3 and 2, my Custom Art CIEMs, etc) seem more complex because they don't taper off some of the finer nuances.

I bet the HD700 would be a good match (balanced especially) with the Liquid Carbon amp I have now, and again I could see the signature appealing to people, but I didn't detect great heights of technical prowess and subjectively I just couldn't leave money in the HD700 when I was enjoying a less expensive headphone more. I heard too what you said about "weirdness that's hard to put your finger on..." It hit the uncanny valley for me too.


----------



## Evshrug

zyker said:


> Well, that makes sense... it's kind of funny that BT-W2 adapter works but the basic X7 doesn't.
> 
> What do you know about the Creative E-MU MX7 speakers?  They're free with a purchase of the X7 from Creative, right now... would they work well as a desktop PC speaker?  I'm currently sporting a set of Creative I-trigue L3800s.



The X7 is more complex than the BT-W2 and unfortunately requires a driver to communicate back and forth over USB (unless you connect a smartphone in Host mode), but yeah I was disappointed by that too.

I haven't heard those speakers (I'd like to!), but I bet they WOULD work well as desktop monitors (Tip: tilt them upwards towards your ears!) and you could plug in your I-trigue speakers (powered, I assume?) as rear surrounds!


----------



## Zyker

evshrug said:


> The X7 is more complex than the BT-W2 and unfortunately requires a driver to communicate back and forth over USB (unless you connect a smartphone in Host mode), but yeah I was disappointed by that too.
> 
> I haven't heard those speakers (I'd like to!), but I bet they WOULD work well as desktop monitors (Tip: tilt them upwards towards your ears!) and you could plug in your I-trigue speakers (powered, I assume?) as rear surrounds!


 
 Is the mic quality still good even going through the BT-W2?  I'd be disappointed if it wasn't any good because it had to go through that.
  
 I didn't even _think_ of using my old speakers as rear surrounds... that's a great idea!  And it seems like a pretty good deal, so I'll probably go ahead and pick everything up... I've been wanting to replace my desktop speakers for a while, anyway!


----------



## mukumi

Hey FYI the Sennheiser PC 350 SE 2015 is at 90€ on Amazon.de : http://www.amazon.de/Sennheiser-Special-2015-Gaming-Headset-schwarz/dp/B013BL1J7M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456733933&sr=8-1&keywords=pc+350
  
 Not sure how it competes against the usually recommanded ones but I jumped on it. And, for the moment, I prefer it to the COP but it might just be the placebo effect of having something new. If I have some time I'll try to compare them (COP vs M100 vs PC350). I still have to find a way to compare that smartly. Any advices for doing that ?
  
 However I had one small issue with it while using the DSS2. The sound itself was ok (even if the PC350 SE is 150 ohm) but it looks like there was some type of issue with the microphone plugged in the Xonar U3 (my setup is xonar U3 optical to DSS2 with mic plugged in the Xonar and headphones in the DSS2), my friends could hear a "buzzing noise". When I used it with another soundcard (headphones + mic) it was gone. Could be that the DSS2 sends too much power to try to match the PC 350 impedance?
  
 As for surround in general I tested the following :
 - Asus Supreme FX (ALC1150) on Maximus VII Ranger. Couldn't test the virtual Sonic Stage as this feature is only when you use the front panel audio (which I do not use). So I can't completely dismiss that. I tested the virtual surround which is just 2 channels with load of reverbs, wasn't good.
 - Asus Xonar U3: the virtual surround was also full of reverb, didn't like it at all (actually I prefered the fake virtual of the Supreme FX).
 - Asus Xonar U3 optical to DSS2: that solution is the most pleasant to my ears, the DSS2 does not add stupid reverb and the sound can be "a little bit tuned" with the EQ preset.
  
 A Sound Blaster E5 is on its way, I'll see if it gets better with it (else I'll send it back to amazon).


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can use Sonic Soundstage without the "forced" front panel  requirement if you select AC97 in the Asus software. Tested it back then on my Maximus VII Hero
  
 Those drivers are APO (most likely) so they submit the multi speaker setup to the game. Forget about Windows speaker settings if a game strictly relies upon them, you will have stereo only. Same thing with Logitech G933.


----------



## Evshrug

zyker said:


> Is the mic quality still good even going through the BT-W2?  I'd be disappointed if it wasn't any good because it had to go through that.
> 
> I didn't even _think_ of using my old speakers as rear surrounds... that's a great idea!  And it seems like a pretty good deal, so I'll probably go ahead and pick everything up... I've been wanting to replace my desktop speakers for a while, anyway!




Uuuuuuum honestly I don't have the BT-W2 (I connect a Blue Snowball directly to my PS4's USB), but it should be okay. When I used my X7 on PC and tested audio using the built-in mic, you could tell what I was saying, but you could also tell I was sitting back at a bit of a distance. I plugged in a cheap $3 lapel mic to the X7's line-in, and my (head-fi) friends said they preferred that and thought the X7's ADC was pretty good. I'm confident that the built-in mic will at least be serviceable over Bluetooth, Yetha and othersl seem to use theirs that way.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Well, that makes sense... it's kind of funny that BT-W2 adapter works but the basic X7 doesn't.
> 
> What do you know about the Creative E-MU MX7 speakers?  They're free with a purchase of the X7 from Creative, right now... would they work well as a desktop PC speaker?  I'm currently sporting a set of Creative I-trigue L3800s.


 

 The adapter works due to driver shenanigans on Creative's part. Regular Bluetooth transceivers use USB Communications device driver class. The BT-W2 is instead recognized as a USB Audio class device and that is the reason why it works on the PS4. However, it is a convenient solution as it allows using the same microphone on both PC, PS4 and a mobile phone.
  
 As for the E-MU XM7, I have them and so far I am satisfied with their performance. You'll need a speaker amp to power them, or the X7, if You decide to buy them in a bundle.
  


evshrug said:


> (...)





> *Drawing Conclusions*
> I think the HD700 was designed to be very much an all-rounder and I think they hit "very good" in almost every area, plus it looks awesome. It was also an educational and enjoyable experience, and I could see someone using an HD700 for a few months or a year if they really liked it. Ultimately though, for it's price and weight, I would expect a Hi-Fi headphone to have a few excellent or amazing areas, but I just don't feel it had those, plus the treble was uneven. Though I got the HD700 for a very good market price, I didn't get that high-end wow feeling or even that it performed better than $250 alternatives, so I sold it.
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Evshrug, that was really helpful. Looks like I'd have to keep looking for that one perfect headphone.
  


mad lust envy said:


> I wish it were easy to go out and try headphones before buying. We don't really have many outlets to experience popular headphones, save for a few special stores here and there, which are few and far between.
> 
> Most of the time, we are definitely buying blindly.
> 
> I almost always recommend on just waiting on other's impressions on basic terminologies of sound, from soundstage, bass, midrange, etc. I hardly ever listen to the hyperbolic stuff like "OMG this headphone has the best bass, mids, treble, detail, soundstage, etc. You have to have a fair amount of skepticism and just try and pay attention to sound signature comments, and easy stuff to understand. Well balanced, bassy, bright, etc.


 
  
 Trying a headphone in an audio store is a half-solution. While I'd be able to demo the headphones, I'd be listening to them using equipment 20x as expensive and/or good sounding as the X7 so it wouldn't be an accurate representation of what I'd hear at home.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> As for the E-MU XM7, I have them and so far I am satisfied with their performance. You'll need a speaker amp to power them, or the X7, if You decide to buy them in a bundle.


 
 Thanks for the advice.  The XM7 actually comes free when you order the X7 directly from Creative... with the price of the speakers, that's not too bad of a deal.
  
 Do you have any suggestions for speaker amps?  What about the setup?  Since these would be for my PC, I'd be running them off a Sound Blaster Z.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> Sometimes when I listen to music or watch a movie with the HD598 I have to double check if I switched the X7 to headphone mode because it sounds as if the sound is coming from the speakers and not from the drivers right next to my ears. I'd like to upgrade sometime this year but I don't want to lose on that feeling. I'm kinda on the fence between HD700 and Shure SRH1840 (they cost about the same in Poland). Any thoughts, or opinions?


 
 Here are some of my opinions on some higher end headphones with gaming through the X7 ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-2-16-2016-fostex-th-600-creative-jam-notes-added/30840#post_11643573 )


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Thanks for the advice.  The XM7 actually comes free when you order the X7 directly from Creative... with the price of the speakers, that's not too bad of a deal.
> 
> Do you have any suggestions for speaker amps?  What about the setup?  Since these would be for my PC, I'd be running them off a Sound Blaster Z.




I use the X7. It sounds fine to me.




inseconds99 said:


> Here are some of my opinions on some higher end headphones with gaming through the X7 ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-2-16-2016-fostex-th-600-creative-jam-notes-added/30840#post_11643573 )



Thanks, I'll take a look.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> I use the X7. It sounds fine to me.


 
 I was going to use the X7 for my PS4, since I mostly use headphones when I play on that.  I was planning on using the XM7s for my PC... I'm using a Sound Blaster Z for my current speakers but I assume I'll need to get a speaker amp to use them with it.  Any suggestions on what amp to get (or if I need to get one)?


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> I was going to use the X7 for my PS4, since I mostly use headphones when I play on that.  I was planning on using the XM7s for my PC... I'm using a Sound Blaster Z for my current speakers but I assume I'll need to get a speaker amp to use them with it.  Any suggestions on what amp to get (or if I need to get one)?



Depends on the budget. If You're looking for something cheap, look for Lepai amps.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Depends on the budget. If You're looking for something cheap, look for Lepai amps.


 
 This is probably a really dumb question but... is there a difference between amps when it comes to speakers?  I mean, the amp just provides power to it while the sound card from my PC will provide the actual audio signal, right?


----------



## dakanao

Can the HE400i be driven with good sound from the DSS?


----------



## Evshrug

zyker said:


> I was going to use the X7 for my PS4, since I mostly use headphones when I play on that.  I was planning on using the XM7s for my PC... I'm using a Sound Blaster Z for my current speakers but I assume I'll need to get a speaker amp to use them with it.  Any suggestions on what amp to get (or if I need to get one)?




My PS4 and PC are in the same room, sharing a monitor, so I have my X7 optical connected to the PS4, and my X7 USB connected to the PC. The X7 is even able to playback audio from both systems at once.

The XM7's are passive speakers, like home theater speakers, so you can use the big speaker taps on the X7, a Lepai integrated amp, a Topping integrated amp, or an AVR that might be laying around (tons of cheap ones on eBay).


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> This is probably a really dumb question but... is there a difference between amps when it comes to speakers?  I mean, the amp just provides power to it while the sound card from my PC will provide the actual audio signal, right?


 

 The same as with headphone amps. Power, sound signature, available connections, balanced/unbalanced et cetera. Same speakers can sound different with a different amp just like the same headphone can sound different with a different amp. I actually have a Lepai amp which I use to power small bookshelf Thomson speakers (replaced in my main setup by E-MU XM7). While I'm really impressed with the Lepai (come on, it costs 20 bucks + shipping, some of us have cables twice as expensive) it sounds really different from the X7. However the quality/price/size ratio is so ridiculous I'd recommend it to anyone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Trying a headphone in an audio store is a half-solution. While I'd be able to demo the headphones, I'd be listening to them using equipment 20x as expensive and/or good sounding as the X7 so it wouldn't be an accurate representation of what I'd hear at home.




Regardless of equipment, you can get a very general general gist as to how a headphone sounds and if it's right for you. I have never heard a headphone with any halfway decent sources/amps that have magically just transformed into something else. The drivers themselves are what dictate the vast majority of the sound. Everything else is the last 5-10%.

Again, halfway decent equipment. You wouldn't wanna power the HE-4 off a Fiio E11.


----------



## Yethal

That approach may work. Well, I still haven't decided on my next headphone. Although I'm starting to look more and more favorably at K712. And it's 400 zloty (about 120 bucks) cheaper than either the hd700 or the srh1840.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can't get a 7XX? I'm sure you can score it for a lot cheaper, and it's essentially the same thing, pad swaps probablyu being the difference?


----------



## DagsJT

Can anyone recommend some headphones more fun than the HD650's for single player gaming and also for mainly R&B, folk, rock and hip hop? 

I've had X2's and found them physically too heavy, K7xx's a little too piercing with the treble. 

I've got a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Vali to drive my headphones. I'd possibly sell the HD650's for around £170 so I'd use that money to buy the new set. 

Any recommendations?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

one question the HD598 need an amp to get a better sound with the Astro mixamp?last night i was playing MW3 and i didnt like the sound of the HD598,the bass was weak, i was expecting a better sound from the HD598,i think the AD700 sound better than the HD598.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dagsjt said:


> Can anyone recommend some headphones more fun than the HD650's for single player gaming and also for mainly R&B, folk, rock and hip hop?
> 
> I've had X2's and found them physically too heavy, K7xx's a little too piercing with the treble.
> 
> ...




Perhaps the Fostex TH-X00. Perhaps Change can chime in.

Also, you have to considert that the 650 is pretty light for a full size headphone, and not many recommendations are gonna be lighter, if any.


----------



## Change is Good

The TH-X00 is basically just a TH-600 with different pads and wood cups. It's a more forgiving sound, mostly because of the slightly smoother highs. It's definitely my end game closed headphone under $500, which I thought the 1540 to be (until I heard the X00).

I switched the cups on them, though, with some metal 600 cups I got for ultra cheap. This is when I came to the assumption that they are, indeed, just a different variation of one another with the same drivers. Treble became more sparkly, with more slam at the lowest frequencies. It was a bit too bright for me, however, so I'm getting those cups dampened to fall more in line with the stock X00 sound signature. Some may think I'm crazy for replacing the beautiful mahogany cups but it makes it sturdier and more throwaround-able, not to mention to more enjoyable sub bass. Plus I'm a sucker for that stealth black look...

Edit: Which reminds me there is now a TH-610 with walnut cups and proprietary cables like the MK2 TH-900. Speculation is it's just a new version of the 600/X00.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like the TH-600 cups the best anyways. Over the D7000, TH-900, and TH-X00.


----------



## Yethal

ni6htwalker said:


> one question the HD598 need an amp to get a better sound with the Astro mixamp?last night i was playing MW3 and i didnt like the sound of the HD598,the bass was weak, i was expecting a better sound from the HD598,i think the AD700 sound better than the HD598.


 

 No, not really. The bass on the HD598 is just not very strong. An amp may help out a little.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

yethal said:


> No, not really. The bass on the HD598 is just not very strong. An amp may help out a little.


 

 im thinking to buy the Schiit Magni but already own the Fiio E07K and i dont know if i can use that amp to use with my astro mixamp.


----------



## Drizz1e

Don't buy an amp expecting it to change your headphones. If you aren't satisfied with the bass on your 598s, you should probably look at a different pair.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

drizz1e said:


> Don't buy an amp expecting it to change your headphones. If you aren't satisfied with the bass on your 598s, you should probably look at a different pair.


 

 so what is the idea to use an amp?


----------



## Sam21

ni6htwalker said:


> so what is the idea to use an amp?


 
  
 it means headphones make more difference in the audio chain...you should worry about your source and headphones first....


----------



## Fegefeuer

Bought a Philips Dolby Headphone DAC/AMP (supports AC3/DTS, Dolby HP Room 1,2,3) and will get it modified (if modder is still up for it) for DHP to Line Out and a better opamp solution.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> Bought a Philips Dolby Headphone DAC/AMP (supports AC3/DTS, Dolby HP Room 1,2,3) and will get it modified (if modder is still up for it) for DHP to Line Out and a better opamp solution.


 

 How's the quality so far?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Will arrive on Friday probably. If I can find the time I will compare with the Wireless Mixamp 5.8 on the same day, else next week.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> No, not really. The bass on the HD598 is just not very strong. An amp may help out a little.







ni6htwalker said:


> im thinking to buy the Schiit Magni but already own the Fiio E07K and i dont know if i can use that amp to use with my astro mixamp.







ni6htwalker said:


> So what is the idea to use an amp?




An amp will tighten and better "describe" the existing bass in a headphone that is under driven... but it does NOT raise the dB of bass or change the frequency response (usually).

If you need more than a small tweak in general definition, and you want a different sound signature, then what you'll benefit most from is some equalizing or a different pair of headphones. If you plug the E07k's analog input to the headphone jack of your Mixamp, do you like the difference from adding bass EQ on the FiiO?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Amping is there for a headphone to perform at it's peak level of performance, not enhance a frequency (unless the amp has some form of frequency boosting like bass boosts).

Think of it like this: a car that needs 93 Octane may perform and reach the same speeds as 87 octane, but it isn't at it's peak level of efficiency and performance. It is struggling more than normal under the hood. I won't get into the problems with using low octane gas on high compression engines which causes more engine knock.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

thank you Evshrug and MLE for the replies,a few hours ago i was playing MW3 and i used the preset "Media" on the Mixdown and i really like the sound coming from the HD598,the pro and core mode sound weak on the HD598.MLE what headphone do you recommend me with a little more bass than the HD598?


----------



## Change is Good

ni6htwalker said:


> thank you Evshrug and MLE for the replies,a few hours ago i was playing MW3 and i used the preset "Media" on the Mixdown and i really like the sound coming from the HD598,the pro and core mode sound weak on the HD598.MLE what headphone do you recommend me with a little more bass than the HD598?




Try the Philips X2


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^X2 is a safe bet. Retains a lot of good balance, but with a nice emphasis on bass, not too heavily going that direction.


----------



## rudyae86

ni6htwalker said:


> thank you Evshrug and MLE for the replies,a few hours ago i was playing MW3 and i used the preset "Media" on the Mixdown and i really like the sound coming from the HD598,the pro and core mode sound weak on the HD598.MLE what headphone do you recommend me with a little more bass than the HD598?


 
 I dont have a Mix Amp but my friend does and from what I remember, Media preset seems to focus more on a V shape sound, making it a slightly more fun sound meaning, slightly more bass emphasis. Pro and Core are meant to be used for competitive gaming, being that Core is more of a Flat sound signature, meaning the way it was meant to be heard without EQing the sound signature. The Pro preset seems to be an EQ'ed version of the Core in which I think emphasizes on hearing footsteps and other little details, seems to be aimed at FPS games only.

 If anything, I would stick with Core for Competitive gaming and Media for watching movies or non FPS games.

 Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Monsterzero

Will a ModMic magnet adhere to X2 mesh?


----------



## Zyker

monsterzero said:


> Will a ModMic magnet adhere to X2 mesh?




The ModMic swivel base connects to the headphones with an adhesive sticker, not a magnet. The magnet connects the mic to the swivel base.

The adhesive sticks to pretty much anything, so you should be good.


----------



## Yethal

The glue and the magnet are strong enough to hold the wieght of the headphones, it is possible to lift them by the microphone with no damage whatsoever to either the mic or the headphones.


----------



## Monsterzero

zyker said:


> The ModMic swivel base connects to the headphones with an adhesive sticker, not a magnet. The magnet connects the mic to the swivel base.
> 
> The adhesive sticks to pretty much anything, so you should be good.


 

 thanks,concerned as it didnt stick to my T1s,but I will try to pickup some X1 or X2s


----------



## Ni6htWalker

i just got a cool deal on the Astros A40,always wanted to try those A40 headphones,fock i need to stop buying headphones jajajajaja im thinking to buy the Fidelio X2.


----------



## Evshrug

Damn man! Think of the A40 purchase as $100 or so that you could've put towards an X2...


----------



## Ni6htWalker

evshrug said:


> Damn man! Think of the A40 purchase as $100 or so that you could've put towards an X2...


 

 i get them for $50 dollars.,always wanted to test those headphones,my friend sold them to me because he stop playing call of duty,he told me that he was in love with the astro A40


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The A40 for $50 is a great deal.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

mad lust envy said:


> The A40 for $50 is a great deal.


 

 yeah man was i great deal!!!


----------



## Change is Good

Anyone here intrigued by what _No Man's Sky_ has shown, so far? Im curious as to what some of your thoughts and expectations are.


----------



## Impulse

'Sup? It's been a while since I've frequented HF regularly, maybe 2yrs? I think I disappeared a bit before the Fidelio X2 went on sale, I still see familiar faces on this thread tho...

Anyway, I've had the the Beyer DT-880 for long time and around a year ago I also got the Fidelio X2; I find I prefer the latter not only for gaming but also some (yet definitely not all) of my music. I'm thinking of keeping the X2 for gaming (perfect ergos/sound sig for that IMO) and trying something different for music, since the Beyers can be hit or miss there too. The $250 Amazon deal on the HD600 (after spending a gift card) makes them awful tempting since they're so praised and their strength with vocals is appealing. 

My main reservation is whether I'm doing too much side grading or buying too similar gear. On the one hand I like comparing gear and having three pairs (2 open & 1 closed specifically) actually works well for me logistically (I keep the closed NAD HP50 in the living room, one open in my home office, and one pair floating between), but I do wonder if I should be looking upwards and consolidating instead. 

I liked the DT-880 as affordable all arounders (paid $215) but wouldn't mind splitting duties logically. The build, price, and proprietary dual entry cable along with the more intimate sound stage are some of the things that kept me from the HD600 in the past; but the stage/cable isn't an issue if I keep the Fidelio for gaming and the price is attractive right now, I could get over the plasticky build and somewhat meh looks.

I trust and respect the opinions of several of the familiar faces I see here, hence why I'm asking for you input despite being somewhat OT. Should I be looking at the HE-400S or something else? Should I just save my money for my other hobbies instead? (camera lenses, PC hardware, etc) I'd appreciate any input, PM welcome if too OT. TIA


----------



## Impulse

TL;DR HD600 for $250 to complement my Fidelio X2 & possibly replace the DT-880 for music, does it make sense or am I getting into too much of a same-y side-grade? I want something distinct enough that would warrant keeping both, even if mostly for different duties, and I'm not investing in amps beyond the price point of Asgard 2 / Vali 2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HD600 is very much a side grade to the X2, in fact Tyll at Innerfidelity basically replaced HD600 with the X2 as the better of the two. Perhaps you should start thinking of going with planars as something new. 400S or 400i maybe. Planars have an organic trait on them not found in standard dynamic headphones that can be addictive.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Anyone here intrigued by what _No Man's Sky_ has shown, so far? Im curious as to what some of your thoughts and expectations are.


 

 I just hope its not all hype......


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> I just hope its not all hype......




What hype, though? Only hype i see is coming from gamesites, threads, and chatter. The developers seem to be somewhat close lipped from what I see (with exception of a couple gameplay demos). Destiny and Division got (are getting) more hype than this, but I guess its publishers and being mmo/rpgs and will do that. No man's Sky is... I dont know what to even call it lol


----------



## Impulse

mad lust envy said:


> HD600 is very much a side grade to the X2, in fact Tyll at Innerfidelity basically replaced HD600 with the X2 as the better of the two. Perhaps you should start thinking of going with planars as something new. 400S or 400i maybe. Planars have an organic trait on them not found in standard dynamic headphones that can be addictive.




Thanks for the input MLE, I've read and reread Tyll's reviews probably half a dozen times. In general I really really appreciate his judgement and his writing, but I think in recent reviews (specially when dealing w/mid-fi gear) he seems to be writing to the a broader and less enthusiast focused base... 

Either that or he's a lot more price conscious and WoF positioning ends up reflecting that, he also hyped up the HE-400S over either of those cans yet it seemed highly predicate on the fact that they're some $50-100 cheaper. For some that might be make or break, but obviously street prices and sales can end up making it all a wash anyway.

Still, I get what you're saying, the combo with my Beyers is probably more distinct than what I'd end up with the Senn. I think it's noteworthy he kept all three on the WoF (HD600, X2, and HE-400S). I'm curious about the HE-400s but I've seen it described as one of the less planar sounding planars of the bunch (weaker bass impact etc). 

Even Tyll's review makes it sound closer to the rest of those dynamics (in sound sig, not some arbitrary better/best scale) than what I've read of other planars in the past. That and their somewhat loose looking stance on the head scared me off, but I guess I should read up some more on them, and/or circle back to HE-400i. 

HFMs would certainly be easier eeaier to drive optimally w/my gear, good food for thought. Thanks a again...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd always recommend the HE400 with some Shure 1540 pads, which would definitely be a bold change compared to the X2. But that means finding a good pair of used HE400 for a good price, and paying for the $40 pads. Audeze vegan pads would cost $80 and make the HE400 as warm as Ive ever heard them with some pretty full bass, and not as bad a treble peak, but it's not as defined as Focus Pads. I forgot how the 1540 pads sounded with the HE400, though I liked it, and I assume sounds closer to Focus Pads.


----------



## Change is Good

1540 pads are actually bassier, less detailed, and more congested than the focus pads.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, sounds like what the vegan does compared to the focus pads. The Focus pads are definitely the most detailed of the bunch I've heard (outside of the velour), but not as warm.

I take the tradeoff of warm/bass over the overall clarity due to wanting this as a fun, comfy headphone. Vegans/1540 pads are the comfiest to me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yesterday night I had a few rounds with the Philips DHP device. What a kickass oldschool machine. 
  
 It supports AC3, DTS, Dolby Headphone 1,2,3. It signalizes everything you want or need to see, be it AC3/DTS, Night Mode, Dolby PLII, the room setting. In stock form it's better than the Mixamp and has plenty of volume headroom. Better as in sound quality, noise level, hiss. Sound quality is quite a good step up just like the Xonar cards vs. Mixamp proved to me when I had one for two years. STX vs. Mixamp back then was worlds apart. Dolby Headphone is quite good when the base level is good as well, though most of us know that the Mixamp is a DHP device that is easiest to get.
  
 My lack of time can be so annoying. Will play around a bit more and sometime in the next few months get it upgraded with a new PSU and new HPA, even though it's a bit costly.
 You know, if creative released a device as simple as that. Instead they gimped the G5. Not with the lack of AC3 input which supposedly is incoming but with gimped SBX. 
  
 Future HPA will do:
  
 600 Ω 2x 260mW
 300 Ω 2x 500 mW
 200 Ω 2x 730 mW
 150 Ω 2x 1000 mW
 100 Ω 2x 1300 mW
 70 Ω 2x 1650 mW
 47 Ω 2x 1500 mW
 33 Ω 2x 1450 mW 
 22 Ω 2x 1200 mW 
  
  
 Dynamic, volume fully clockwise: 139 dB at 300 Ω, 138 dB at 68 Ω, measured with A-weighting filter typ. > 140 dB !! Distortion + Noise (THD + N) : 20 Hz...22 kHz < 0,0005 % at 2x 500 mW, 33 Ω THD-Distortion 1 kHz (k2..k9): < -115 dB at half power, typ < -120 dB Intermodulation 250/8kHz : typ. 0,0001 % at 2x 500 mW, 100 Ω load Frequency response : 0 Hz...22 kHz less than ± 0,01 dB, 0 Hz..100 kHz <± 0,2 dB at 100 Ω Large signal bandwith: 0 Hz...> 180 kHz at 100 Ω Slew Rate : typ. 20 V/µsec Crosstalk L < > R: 110 dB at 1 kHz 100 dB at 10 kHz Max. power at THD (k2-k9) < 0,1% :


----------



## Yethal

Driverless-ness is a major advantage of Mixamp over Creative devices. Plug and play just like the consoles it is usually used with.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> What hype, though? Only hype i see is coming from gamesites, threads, and chatter. The developers seem to be somewhat close lipped from what I see (with exception of a couple gameplay demos). Destiny and Division got (are getting) more hype than this, but I guess its publishers and being mmo/rpgs and will do that. No man's Sky is... I dont know what to even call it lol


 
 Well yeah, youtubers and such have hyped it up of course. Yeah, Desticrap and The Divicrap have been over hyped that I'm not even considering buying The Division at this point after trying the first Beta.

 I do however like what the developers of No Man's Sky is doing, the whole concept of it and its gameplay mechanics have me intrigued. But I'm honestly just keeping my expectations very low, something of which as of late with most crappy games that have been released.
  
 Even the new WW2 game Battalion 1944 got me hyped up until their initial goal of $100,000 has been increased in order to put in "more content"
  
 I mean, I am looking foward to Battalion 1944 but not as much anymore just for the simple fact that they are now trying to get as much money as they can right now.

 So let's hope No Man's Sky does deliver.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No Man's Sky looks boring. :/

That and randomly generated worlds = no true direction and repeated assets.

So yeah, I have a feeling people are expecting waaaaay too much from this game that isn't even AAA IIRC.

I'm not the right guy to judge this type of game, as I personally don't like any open world games. Give me a linear, narrative driven game with set pieces to play with for 15-20 hours, then I'll move on to something else. I don't like a game that is huge and open but you're essentially doing the same stuff from hour 1 to hour 900. Padding playtime with mundane tasks isn't my idea of fun.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> No Man's Sky looks boring. :/
> 
> That and randomly generated worlds = no true direction and repeated assets.
> 
> ...




Weird. Reminds me of a game I once played with you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Destiny was a very rare thing for me. Even that game was linear, and narrative driven (however minimal the narrative was).

Reason Destiny was a success was because of how good the actual gameplay is. Unlike many open world games that half ass many gameplay mechanics. A lot of mediocre mechanics crammed into one game, instead of focusing on fewer, but much more fleshed out mechanics.

I'd buy the Division, but maaaan, the little I played of the Beta, I was incredibly bored. I was much more impressed by Destiny's accessibility and mechanics.


----------



## Zyker

Is the Creative X7 supposed to mute other sound when you attach the headphones?  I've got mine hooked up to the PS4 but it's still outputting sound through the TV when I plug my headphones in... I ended up just having to turn the TV volume all the way down.  I thought I had followed Yethal's diagram and set the console to the right audio settings but since it's not muting, I'm wondering.  
 At least the sound quality was nice!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's a PS4 seeing. Turn off multi audio or whatever is called in the sound settings.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm really mediocre with console shooters but i just bought a physical copy of the Division for the PS4. Playerbase should turn out to be the strongest and I should start to make friends on consoles.


----------



## Vader2k

change is good said:


> Anyone here intrigued by what _No Man's Sky_ has shown, so far? Im curious as to what some of your thoughts and expectations are.


 
 I'm actually highly anticipating the game.  I went so far as to pre-order the PS4 limited edition the first day it went up for sale last week.  What fascinates me about the game is the vast amount of undiscovered possibilities yet to be uncovered.  And by that I mean things that haven't been seen in the demo's or screenshots, whether that's unique types of species, or geographical aspects like hidden caves, or oddly shaped mountain ranges, or the more recently discussed alien structures that will allow the player to lean the languages of other species.
  
 Another aspect that was discussed in more detail recently was the potential for numerous different threats to your survival.  Not only from the sentinels "policing" the planets, or animals that may attack you (whether or not you provoked them), but also from hostile environments that your suit might not be adequately equipped to protect you from, or even from space pirates or warring factions that mark you and decide to come after you.  I don't suspect it will always be high adrenaline like that, as there will be just as many quiet moments of exploration, but I like that it has the potential to keep you on your toes from time to time too.
  
 I'm also looking forward to experiencing the game audio, as there seems to be a lot of attention paid to the sound effects and overall atmosphere of the locations.  I'm eager to see how it sounds with headphones and DH.  The approach to the game music is also intriguing, as it is also being procedurally triggered/composed based on different criteria.  I suspect that they had to make a lot of loops with easily transitioned cross-overs so as to keep it feeling organic and free-flowing.
  
 So yeah, imo, there's a lot of neat really stuff to look forward to with the whole package!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Well, looks like my friend ultimately decided against the X-Fi Sonic Carrier, so I won't be reviewing that come September.

 He's got some other Yamaha sound bar he's pleased with right now and decided he wanted to put most of that money toward the HTC Vive instead. Still waiting on the refund, though.
  
 As for No Man's Sky, I'm keeping my eyes on that one. While I'm not sure I'd go and spend $60 for it right off the bat, I do like exploring new worlds and all. The problem is that it's going to be released at a time when I'll probably be glued to Elite Dangerous with a Rift strapped to my face for my space exploration fix.
  
 Oh, and on an actual headphone-related note, what do you guys think of this?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/248983394/ossic-x-the-first-3d-audio-headphones-calibrated-t
  
 I get the feeling the tech would be better-suited to a standalone headphone DSP, but hey, maybe they can somehow make a multi-driver headphone not totally suck.
  
 What actually excites me about this isn't the headphone itself, but the fact that they're pushing heavily for object-based audio formats like PC games used to have. Maybe we'll get proper 3D audio back. However, I'm not banking on it happening for just this one specific headphone. Too niche.


----------



## Fegefeuer

what? Why? We don't need to rely upon them for object-based audio.
  
 VR is bringing object-based audio back full force. The future looks bright.


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> I'm really mediocre with console shooters but i just bought a physical copy of the Division for the PS4. Playerbase should turn out to be the strongest and I should start to make friends on consoles.


 It seems Ubisoft is going the same route Activision went with Destiny, so there should be plenty friends to make. Since there is basically nothing to do in that game, right now, expect them all (if not most) to migrate over to Division.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, i think thats what is happening with Destiny. My clan is moving over to Division last I checked.


----------



## Change is Good

Hahaha. I'm taking the 'wait and see' approach, something I originally intended to do with Activision's Destiny. I hate all of you because of that damn game


----------



## Ni6htWalker

*Mad Lust Envy* what is your opinion on this headphone Superlux HD668B?i friend of mine told me that they are very good for gaming and for music,with good bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never heard it. Can't say anything about it.

So I rented the Division at Redbox, and I'll play later on today, alone, for testing. 

Consider it a $3.00 test.


----------



## Seamouse

Thank you for the guide. Ive ordered X2's, as i understand the best option is to get a mixamp TR for my ps4? Sorry for the obvious questiom, just wanted to confirm


----------



## Dutchball16

Thanks for the guide, extremely helpful!!!


----------



## mukumi

Hello everyone, it's me again.
 So right now I'm using a PC350 SE 2015 with a Sound Blaster E5. I enjoy the combo but yesterday I used back my COP and prefered the sound of that one but I do not find it really comfortable (i use the velour pad). So now I'm looking to do an upgrade, getting something with the comfort of the PC350 and close to the sound of the COP (or better if possible).
 I've narrowed my choice in the 150€ zone to the DT-880 / DT-990 / HD598 / AKG K702. I've also gave a quick look to the Ultrasone PRO 550 but not sure if those are comfortable.
 Do you have any suggestion?  (If there is something out of budget, I can consider it as long as it does not go past the 300€, i'll just have to wait before purchasing it). I'm using the virtual surround of the E5 when gaming, don't know if it matters or not during the selection.


----------



## Blze001

mukumi said:


> Hello everyone, it's me again.
> So right now I'm using a PC350 SE 2015 with a Sound Blaster E5. I enjoy the combo but yesterday I used back my COP and prefered the sound of that one but I do not find it really comfortable (i use the velour pad). So now I'm looking to do an upgrade, getting something with the comfort of the PC350 and close to the sound of the COP (or better if possible).
> I've narrowed my choice in the 150€ zone to the DT-880 / DT-990 / HD598 / AKG K702. I've also gave a quick look to the Ultrasone PRO 550 but not sure if those are comfortable.
> Do you have any suggestion?  (If there is something out of budget, I can consider it as long as it does not go past the 300€, i'll just have to wait before purchasing it). I'm using the virtual surround of the E5 when gaming, don't know if it matters or not during the selection.


 
  
 I assume by COP, you mean Custom One Pros from Beyer? If that's the case, the comfort level is going to be similar to the two DT offerings. The HD598s are going to be similar in comfort to the PC350, only with better sound. The K702s will have less bass than the COPs, but have amazing positional audio (and it's not that they can't do bass, it's just very tight and not particularly boomy. A bass drum sounds great, dubstep not so much).
  
 I suggest either the 598s or K702s. But mostly the 702s because I'm an AKG fanboy.


----------



## mukumi

blze001 said:


> I assume by COP, you mean Custom One Pros from Beyer? If that's the case, the comfort level is going to be similar to the two DT offerings. The HD598s are going to be similar in comfort to the PC350, only with better sound. The K702s will have less bass than the COPs, but have amazing positional audio (and it's not that they can't do bass, it's just very tight and not particularly boomy. A bass drum sounds great, dubstep not so much).
> 
> I suggest either the 598s or K702s. But mostly the 702s because I'm an AKG fanboy.


 
  
 Thanks for your reply !
 Yes indeed, COP = Custom One Pro. I thought that the DT990 had bigger cups than the COP. If it's not the case they are eliminated 
 I always wanted to try some good AKG headphones (only one I had was K450) so it might be the time to give it a try with the K702 (or 701 depending on the price).
 The HD598 has the advantages of using a normal connection for the detachable cable, so I could use the vmoda boom pro with it. WIth the AKG i'll have to find another solution (or use the PC350 when I need the mic)


----------



## Blze001

mukumi said:


> Thanks for your reply !
> Yes indeed, COP = Custom One Pro. I thought that the DT990 had bigger cups than the COP. If it's not the case they are eliminated
> I always wanted to try some good AKG headphones (only one I had was K450) so it might be the time to give it a try with the K702 (or 701 depending on the price).
> The HD598 has the advantages of using a normal connection for the detachable cable, so I could use the vmoda boom pro with it. WIth the AKG i'll have to find another solution (or use the PC350 when I need the mic)


 
  

 The sound signature isn't for anyone by any means, but I've really grown to love the flat analytical nature and soundstage. The K612, Q701s and K550/551/553 (why there are three numbers is beyond me, its the same headphone) are worthy options too.
  
 The Q701s are basically K701s with a little less soundstage and a little more bass. K612s are the 7xx series little brothers, but still very very good, and the K550s are closed back but rival some open-backed headphones in soundstage. I can't recommend them confidently since I don't know what prices or availability are like across the pond, but they're good options.
  
 As for the microphone problem, I'm not sure if you can get ModMics over where you are, but they work really well.


----------



## serman005

There is also always the K7xx... Not a bad option, either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys, refurBished Hifiman headphones going for absurdly low price at the Hifiman store. HE400 for $150!

had I not owned mine, I'd have definitely bought one.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Hey guys, refurBished Hifiman headphones going for absurdly low price at the Hifiman store. HE400 for $150!
> 
> had I not owned mine, I'd have definitely bought one.




Dang the 400's are sold out already!


----------



## PacoTaco

Trying to decide if I want to go with the shure 1540 or k7xx with my future x7


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> Trying to decide if I want to go with the shure 1540 or k7xx with my future x7


 
  
 It really depends on what you are listening for. Both have distinct qualities that make them rather difficult to choose between, hence why I owned both for as long as I did.
  
 If it were up to me, I'd say both...


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Hey guys, refurBished Hifiman headphones going for absurdly low price at the Hifiman store. HE400 for $150!
> 
> had I not owned mine, I'd have definitely bought one.


 
  
 Wow, between this and Hifiman's 400i holiday sale... I have to tip my cap to them. Never heard the og 400, but my guess is that is a supreme deal (based on my latest experience with the 400i). Superb sound quality at lower-tier_ish_ prices...


----------



## PacoTaco

change is good said:


> It really depends on what you are listening for. Both have distinct qualities that make them rather difficult to choose between, hence why I owned both for as long as I did.
> 
> If it were up to me, I'd say both... :evil:




Only if I had the money, haha.

Lately, I just listen to rock but play mostly games (mostly no competitive.)


----------



## Change is Good

pacotaco said:


> Only if I had the money, haha.
> 
> Lately, I just listen to rock but play mostly games (mostly no competitive.)


 
  
 Go for the K7XX. Though the 1540 was technically a better headphone for my preferences (mild basshead), the AKG was my _go to_ headphone for rock and digital media.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh sank, Hifiman sale? I need to head over there!!


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Oh sank, Hifiman sale? I need to head over there!!


 
  
 We're too late. HE-500 for $350? HE-400 for $150? Yeah, those weren't going to last long lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sennheiser Sale@Notebooks Billiger in Germany for all you EU guys. 20% OFF 
  
 20% OFF all wireless, HD 700, 600, 650, 630, 598, IE8/80 etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Wow, between this and Hifiman's 400i holiday sale... I have to tip my cap to them. Never heard the og 400, but my guess is that is a supreme deal (based on my latest experience with the 400i). Superb sound quality at lower-tier_ish_ prices...




Honestly not sure if you'd be into them. I mean they're pretty love hate. They do sound a lot more agreeable with the pad swaps though.

Think of v-shaped but with great bass, low mids, recessed uppers, and very, very spiky treble. Vegans/1540 do much to tame the treble, but may recess the upper mids even more so.

Still, as a fun headphone, it's REALLY great. And I have yet to hear bass as amazing that the HE400, except the og LCD2.2. That double-sided magnet planar bass is seriously something single-sided magnet planars can't seem to reach, no matter how good all these companies are making them.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, my ears don't get along with spikey treble. Still, at that price it would have been nice to at least try, then resell to the next lucky head-fier.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

i just bought the Astro A40 TR and im Very disappointed with this headset 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the soundstage is poor,too much bass,maybe for music they are ok,last night i was reading some reviews on the Mixamp and some people say that the Turtle Beach DSS is better than the Astro Mixamp,i have both products and i like better the Astro Mixamp 2013.


----------



## Evshrug

Aaah, well I was thinking more along the lines of an i model... Was surprised to see the weight had been reduced to basically the same level as the Oppo PM-2 I liked. And the price was pretty good. Like, my pants in a bunch good. Did I ever say I liked the smoked charcoal finish?



ni6htwalker said:


> i just bought the Astro A40 TR and im Very disappointed with this headset :mad: the soundstage is poor,too much bass,maybe for music they are ok,last night i was reading some reviews on the Mixamp and some people say that the Turtle Beach DSS is better than the Astro Mixamp, I have both products and i like better the Astro Mixamp 2013.




I haven't heard the TR, but don't say the guide didn't warn you about the A40


----------



## Ni6htWalker

evshrug said:


> I haven't heard the TR, but don't say the guide didn't warn you about the A40


 
 the guide are from the A40 2 Generation,the guide say-Competitive: 7.5/10 (Very Good)i didnt know my friend was selling me the Astro A40 TR.


----------



## Drizz1e

The thing is, you can get better headphones for the same price. If you wanted a pair of gaming headphones that have good bass, you could've just bought a used pair of X2s for like $150. If I'm not mistaken you mentioned you also have a Modmic so you would be covered.


----------



## henhowc

any forum impressions on these? lucidsound ls30
  
 http://games.highdefdigest.com/30901/lucidsound_ls30_wireless_stereo_gaming_headset_xbox_one_ps4.html


----------



## Ni6htWalker

drizz1e said:


> The thing is, you can get better headphones for the same price. If you wanted a pair of gaming headphones that have good bass, you could've just bought a used pair of X2s for like $150. If I'm not mistaken you mentioned you also have a Modmic so you would be covered.


 

 yeah i know but the thing is that always wanted to try the Astros A40 2 generation but my friend sold me the Astros A40 TR,i told him that i wanted my money back
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 and he agreed to give me my money back
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




im going to buy the X2


----------



## KhaledM

seamouse said:


> Thank you for the guide. Ive ordered X2's, as i understand the best option is to get a mixamp TR for my ps4? Sorry for the obvious questiom, just wanted to confirm


 
 Where did you order them from? I'm on the fence about ordering one, I'm afraid of the alleged defective units


----------



## gsmatt

I have searched around for feedback of the Sony Mdr-z7's for gaming and can't find any insight comparing them to different sets. I have them currently and feel like they are the best I own for gaming. I have pc360's, hd650, vmoda m100, and Astro a40 tr to compare them to and I'm loving the mdrz7. Does anyone else have any feedback for them?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes,

the Sony is best among your list, TH-X/Denon AH-D5k upwards are better though. More air, better soundstage, better low end control, definition and extension for the Fostex..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Feggy, how's the HD800 compared to your memory of the HD800?


----------



## Fegefeuer

it's a compromise. 
  
 If the HD 800 is 70% compatible with your music collection then the HD800S is at 90 (modded 650=100%). That's quite a huge step, especially on more modern and synthetic stuff. 
  
 HD 800S sounds sharper and can be a bit more exciting. The very nature of certain peaks. It's why many Beyers are released on the market with them as many people love the excitement they bring, even when it can lead to fake detail. You know that though.
  
 The HD800 peaks works similar. It's less offensive than a T90 or DT990 but it's there. It can have razor qualities, a certain sharpness and liveliness. It doesn't really matter much with classic but it's infamous with quite a few people's favorite tracks and genres as it messes up with many modern recordings with most gear. Something like Odac/o2 should be avoided. 
  
 HD800S
  
 -lower bass extension
 -fuller bass, hits harder
 -more physical/tactile
 -peak pretty well tamed
 -sounds more natural in Klangfarben (the very way an instrument or object sounds, its character, should be timbre in English)
 -still the same huge and cohorent soundstage as the HD800, imo more cohorent as the resonance in the cups is mostly gone.
 -slightly less separation or not quite the reference separation of the HD800 but that's quite a luxury "disadvantage"
  
 HD 800:
  
 -sharper, more razorlike effect in separating detail/instruments, it's subtle but it's noticable
 -6K peak leads to less natural Klangfarben but shouldn't matter to most people anyway as few hear instruments regularly or daily
 -due to tonality the sense of air is a bit bigger
 -lesser bass extension but still that ultrahard and ultratight kickbass, can still go into subbass regions
  
 so in the end: get the HD800S and have more benefits for better music compatibility, tonality, overall better package. 
 get a used HD800, mod it french style and love it for its few specialties/advantages.
  
 for gaming a HD800 is already overkill but man, that Philips Dolby Headphone device I recently bought and a HD800. A TH-900 goes lower and is supreme down there but a HD800 soundstage and sense of space remains unique


----------



## PacoTaco

fegefeuer said:


> it's a compromise.
> 
> If the HD 800 is 70% compatible with your music collection then the HD800S is at 90 (modded 650=100%). That's quite a huge step, especially on more modern and synthetic stuff.
> 
> ...




Just to add to this, the bass and lower midrange detail is worse on the hd800s due to the distortion they added to make it slightly warmer. Which may or may not be an issue for some people, as that kind of change can be pleasing to a good portion of folks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

http://www.head-fi.org/t/785577/sennheiser-hd800s-unveiled/3765#post_12416723

good Reviews and summaries


http://www.head-fi.org/products/sennheiser-hd-800-s/reviews/14950

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/sennheiser-hd-800-s-tweaked-and-delightfuland-french-diy-response#46yAGbdGAbZ5Lew6.97


----------



## calpis

So what's a good mic solution for the HD800?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd guess a modmic since the HD800 is dual-cable.

Feggy, yeah I read up on what Senn did to tame the 6khz peak, as well as the French DIY mod to the HD800. All very interesting. 5-8khz is the 'death zone' where a peak can just destroy ears. 8-9khz isn't much better, but more manageable. 10khz and up isn't really an issue for me unless it's stupid absurdly overpowered.

I totally understand the sense of space changing, since that's how I hear the Ether C. The warmer the tuning pad setup, the sense of air diminishes, even though soundstage is still generally the same. People can perceive it as smaller due to that tonal shift.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> I'd guess a modmic since the HD800 is dual-cable.
> 
> Feggy, yeah I read up on what Senn did to tame the 6khz peak, as well as the French DIY mod to the HD800. All very interesting. 5-8khz is the 'death zone' where a peak can just destroy ears. 8-9khz isn't much better, but more manageable. 10khz and up isn't really an issue for me unless it's stupid absurdly overpowered.
> 
> I totally understand the sense of space changing, since that's how I hear the Ether C. The warmer the tuning pad setup, the sense of air diminishes, even though soundstage is still generally the same. People can perceive it as smaller due to that tonal shift.




And how are those Ether C's treating you? 
I think I sorta prefer the ether sound, but the ether C is so damn awesome looking and has SLIGHTLY more sub bass... and unless I'm crazy slightly more extended soundstage?

I mean, more crazy than my usual way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Soundstage is definitely a highlight. But the most special aspect on the Ether C is the imaging.

I've finished the rough draft of the review, so the next few days I'll be adding/omitting/general editing before posting. I'm sure the review will tell you how great I think the Ether C is, lol.

As for sub bass and all that, you also gotta remember about the tuning kit. Those pads really bring out general bass to lower midrange. On the warmest tuning kit setup (aka LCD2 lite), Sub bass immersion is amazing, despite it not actually being emphasized in the simplest term. Mid bass is pretty controlled, and not heavy, which I find to be favorable. I've always been more a fan of sub bass. Mid bass is nice once in awhile, but I don't 'need' it the same way.

Doesn't have the raw LCD2 energy and impact, but has a likeness to it, IIRC.

Anyways, I'd like the hear the Ether at some point, but I'm seriously not in a hurry to review anything, if at all anymore. I did this because I was recommend by Still, but I was on the fence. I mean, i LOVE listening to headphones. I'm just tired of writing reviews.


----------



## mukumi

Damn... Still can't decide. I've looked into this the whole weekend and there is at least one issue for each of the models I've selected.
  
 HD598: apparently there is almost no bass?
 DT990: apparently the trebles are really tiresome.
 DT880: apparently it has issues with virtual headphones, rear sound does not work that weel.
 K702: same issue as for the HD598.
  
 So back to the point where I do not know what to do. Maybe the K612 Pro could be the solution...
  
 Else do you know if the bass issue of K702 or HD598 be solved with some EQ ? I do not want something with constant basses but I would like to hear them at least :s
  
 Or maybe do you know any other model which could fit the bill: open, best sound quality without sacrificing bass and preferably with a detachable cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds like an X2 to me.

No headphone is perfect. You always gotta give and take.

Try the K7XX perhaps. If it's anything like the K702 Anniversary, then you're covered very well. It's not on the guide because I haven't tested that variant though I have heard from plenty of others that it is very much a K702 Annie/K712 or something in between, both which will suit you well, with the K7XX being much cheaper.


----------



## mukumi

mad lust envy said:


> That sounds like an X2 to me.
> 
> No headphone is perfect. You always gotta give and take.
> 
> Try the K7XX perhaps. If it's anything like the K702 Anniversary, then you're covered very well. It's not on the guide because I haven't tested that variant though I have heard from plenty of others that it is very much a K702 Annie/K712 or something in between, both which will suit you well, with the K7XX being much cheaper.


 
  
 Unfortunately the AKG K7XX is not available in Europe 
 I totally forgot about the Fidelio X2, I'll give them a look. Thanks!


----------



## Ni6htWalker

guys one question!! what amp to buy *Fiio E12 'Mont Blanc* or  *Schiit Magni* for a *Mixamp,Ipod *with these headphones HD598 & Sennheiser PC360.


----------



## Sam21

For Desktop use Magni 2 is the best out of those amps.


----------



## Imperatore

I'm in a rut. I got a mix amp pro and X1 based on this thread a year or so ago. Decided to try wireless so sold my stuf and got the Sony HW700DS. Was ok but keep getting interference and stuff. 

Now I'm torn between the following. I'll get another Mixamp pro as I feel they are decent and I don't have a separate amp currently. 

My contender are. X2 purely as X1 was my first decent phones and I liked them. DT990 a lot cheaper than I remembered. AKG K712 highly rated but I don't have separate amp currently. 

Q701 Quincy signatures purely for looks


----------



## rudyae86

mukumi said:


> Damn... Still can't decide. I've looked into this the whole weekend and there is at least one issue for each of the models I've selected.
> 
> HD598: apparently there is almost no bass?
> DT990: apparently the trebles are really tiresome.
> ...


 

 HD598 for me has plenty of bass, not as much as my X2's but its there and you will notice it just not EDMOMGDATBASSYO....
  
 K702 dont own it but own the K7XX and honestly, the HD598 still has more bass presence.

 Its really hard to describe the exact amount of bass using just words. Thats why you buy headphones from a place with a good return policy to see which one you like the most.

 So the order I would put those 3 headphones I described in terms of bass, from more bass to less bass are: X2's (I know thats not on your list but can be close to the DT990 but not really) HD598 and then K7XX (thought the bass from the K7XX is still good its just faster)
  
 as to the DT990, I only own Custom One Pro's which is a close back, so I wouldn't really give you an exact or close description of the bass. But from reading some of the descriptions and comments on the DT990, it seems to have pronounce yet faster bass which could mean have less bass than the X2.

 you mention the K612 and that could possibly be the better solution for you and could be sounding close to the HD598, bass wise of course not the whole sound signature.

 This is just my opinion since everyone's ears differ and set up is different than other as well.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

mukumi said:


> HD598: apparently there is almost no bass?


 
 im listening some music right now on my mac with the FiiO E07K and the HD598,damn HD598 has plenty of bass
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





when i get them a few weeks ago i thought the HD598 has no bass,i was wrong


----------



## NamelessPFG

*Aw, crap. I think I just instantly blew my MMX 300's left driver after accidentally leaving the system volume at 100. This was just after a proper recabling, too.*
  
 I don't think I need to explain how pissed off I am at the prospect of having to track down another MMX 300/DT770 32-ohm driver and baffle to get this thing fully working once again. It might not even be cost-effective at all compared to just buying a used DT770 and transplanting the drivers.
  
 Meanwhile, I should have a Sennheiser PC360 I found for a stupidly low price by next week. That one might require a recabling as well, but hey, not like I haven't done that before. Then I'll have a good impression of both like I always wanted.


----------



## PacoTaco

namelesspfg said:


> *Aw, crap. I think I just instantly blew my MMX 300's left driver after accidentally leaving the system volume at 100. This was just after a proper recabling, too.*
> 
> I don't think I need to explain how pissed off I am at the prospect of having to track down another MMX 300/DT770 32-ohm driver and baffle to get this thing fully working once again. It might not even be cost-effective at all compared to just buying a used DT770 and transplanting the drivers.
> 
> Meanwhile, I should have a Sennheiser PC360 I found for a stupidly low price by next week. That one might require a recabling as well, but hey, not like I haven't done that before. Then I'll have a good impression of both like I always wanted.




I'm actually going to sell my mmx 300 pretty soon now that my k7xx is coming. Might be a day or two though before I put anything up. Though, it'll probably be priced above A used dt770.

Anyway, the hd598 is usually known as lacking bass because a lot of people don't think it requires as much amplification as it does. It has a huge impedance swing in the bass region, and needs a bit of amping to bring that out.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> *Aw, crap. I think I just instantly blew my MMX 300's left driver after accidentally leaving the system volume at 100. This was just after a proper recabling, too.*
> 
> I don't think I need to explain how pissed off I am at the prospect of having to track down another MMX 300/DT770 32-ohm driver and baffle to get this thing fully working once again. It might not even be cost-effective at all compared to just buying a used DT770 and transplanting the drivers.
> 
> Meanwhile, I should have a Sennheiser PC360 I found for a stupidly low price by next week. That one might require a recabling as well, but hey, not like I haven't done that before. Then I'll have a good impression of both like I always wanted.


 

 Won't this solve the problem?


ni6htwalker said:


> im listening some music right now on my mac with the FiiO E07K and the HD598,damn HD598 has plenty of bass
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 It's not that HD598 has no bass, it just doesn't have as much of it. It sounds perfectly fine for music genres that don't require much bass. However for stuff that sounds good only with gobs of bass (dubstep, powerviolence, grindcore) it's decent at best. Guys over at the HD598 thread claim that swapping the cable for a better one will bring out more bass out of that headphone.
 btw, dod You do the soundstage mod already? If yes, post some pictures.


----------



## mukumi

Well since I intend to use the headphones for gaming only (and not competitive, i'm speaking about AAA titles such as Tomb Raider or The Division or whatever will be out) I would want to have a decent amount of bass. The Fidelio X2 is 100€ above the DT990 and 80€ above the HD598. So from now on I'll wait a little bit.
  
 The other option is now to order a DT990 from Amazon and send it back if I do not like it 
 edit: DT990 250ohm ordered. Let's see how they do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mukumi, think about a Fidelio X1 as well. It has more bass and is more immersive than the X2 and basically all the ones you were looking into, and it should also be a bit cheaper. It's really enjoyable, with some thick, rumbly bass.


----------



## mukumi

mad lust envy said:


> Mukumi, think about a Fidelio X1 as well. It has more bass and is more immersive than the X2 and basically all the ones you were looking into, and it should also be a bit cheaper. It's really enjoyable, with some thick, rumbly bass.


 
  
 Well I found those graphs from a website that I trust and DT990 and X1 seems to share the same kind of  signature:
  
 X1:

  
 DT990:

  
 Sources: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/philips-fidelio-x1-p14348/test.html (in French sorry) and http://www.digitalversus.com/headphones/beyerdynamic-dt-990-pro-p21660/test.html
  
 Couldn't find a X1 only X2. So I'll give a try to the DT990 (139€ via Amazon) and as I said I can send them back if i'm not happy. Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how I feel about them.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Won't this solve the problem?


 
  
 Oh, hey, would you look at that? I didn't even know they sold standalone drivers! Most manufacturers these days would rather just have you buy a new product at full price.
  
 I need the North American site, though, so let's see what I can dig up...
http://www.head-fi.org/t/683765/so-i-broke-my-dt770-driver-during-recabling
http://north-america.beyerdynamic.com/service/spare-parts.html
  
 Looks like I can expect $80 shipped for a new driver if the post in that DT770 thread's anything to go by. Ouch. But hey, at least it's much cheaper than buying a new MMX 300 outright.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Shoulkdn't you be bying a pair of matched drivers? Who knows what sorts of minor adjustments or sonic differences were made between what you have and now. Lol.


----------



## KhaledM

mad lust envy said:


> Mukumi, think about a Fidelio X1 as well. It has more bass and is more immersive than the X2 and basically all the ones you were looking into, and it should also be a bit cheaper. It's really enjoyable, with some thick, rumbly bass.


 
 Could you please give a more detailed comparison between the two regarding soundstage, imaging, bass, and performance when plugged to a portable device like an iphone?


----------



## KhaledM

khaledm said:


> Could you please give a more detailed comparison between the two regarding soundstage, imaging, bass, and performance when plugged to a portable device like an iphone?


 
 I have found your detailed reviews on them, thank a lot, it was very helpful!


----------



## Imperatore

When one is using a Mixamp Pro and a seperate Amp, which one would you control the volume from?  E09K has a seperate volume knob so I don't really understand how you deal with this.
  
 Also, if an amp has a built in DAC, does that override anything on the Mixamp?  Does that Mixamp just become a surround sound device at that point?  I'm trying to find a cheap but decent amp for the K712 Pros.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

You would control it using the separate amp, with the Mixamp at max, or close to max, volume. 

 I personally don't have experience with E09k, so I wouldn't know if it will change anything. However, I did use my K712s with a Magni 2 Uber and Mixamp combo for a little bit and that worked really well.
  
 Quote:


imperatore said:


> When one is using a Mixamp Pro and a seperate Amp, which one would you control the volume from?  E09K has a seperate volume knob so I don't really understand how you deal with this.
> 
> Also, if an amp has a built in DAC, does that override anything on the Mixamp?  Does that Mixamp just become a surround sound device at that point?  I'm trying to find a cheap but decent amp for the K712 Pros.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

yethal said:


> btw, dod You do the soundstage mod already? If yes, post some pictures.


 
 i haven’t done it yet,I've been very busy lately.


----------



## Imperatore

Thank you for the reply. Do you find your K7's immersive? I only ask because I had X1 before and thought they were very well balanced overall. I don't listen to music so gaming and films only. 
I'm not against getting X1 again but I'd like to try something new. Immersion is more important to me than precision as I'm not a big competitive gamer.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

I find them to be pretty immersive, but that depends on personal preference. I love the super wide soundstage of my K712s because it gives the objects in the game a realistic presence as to how close/far they are in the game, which for me is more immersive.

 ​On the plus side they also work great for those times when you do want to listen to music.
  
 Quote:


imperatore said:


>


----------



## Imperatore

Very tough deciding. I think I'll get the four sets I'm interested in and try make a decision. The amp is harder to choose as I know nothing about them.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> Oh, hey, would you look at that? I didn't even know they sold standalone drivers! Most manufacturers these days would rather just have you buy a new product at full price.
> 
> I need the North American site, though, so let's see what I can dig up...
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/683765/so-i-broke-my-dt770-driver-during-recabling
> ...


 

 Or You can just go full pimp and buy the Tesla drivers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not sure I'd go Tesla. The ones I've heard have been pretty... polarizing to say the least.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Not sure I'd go Tesla. The ones I've heard have been pretty... polarizing to say the least.


 
  
 I agree, they are the worst unfortunately. I'd take a Manufaktur ALL BLACK DT990 600 over any Tesla and I heard them all. Tesla was rushed back then to counter the HD 800 but until this day Beyer is technically inferior. They still rely on the glory of the DT990/880/770. At least they get good sales through them. 
  
 If you get a T1 and dampen it properly then ok. That one wasn't bad but it's still heavily overpriced for what it does and can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Where the DT990 has maybe a 9-10khz peak that may be problematic to many, that is easy to zone in and eq down. The Teslas feel like they have multiple ear shattering zones of sibilance and shrillness that make it hard to recommend unless yoiu absolute need it for high detail. The portable Tesla I reviewed was quite good and a lot less killer on the ears sonically, but even that I'd go for something else for the price. I dunno. I think my love of Beyer has waned a bit.


----------



## pietcux

mad lust envy said:


> Where the DT990 has maybe a 9-10khz peak that may be problematic to many, that is easy to zone in and eq down. The Teslas feel like they have multiple ear shattering zones of sibilance and shrillness that make it hard to recommend unless yoiu absolute need it for high detail. The portable Tesla I reviewed was quite good and a lot less killer on the ears sonically, but even that I'd go for something else for the price. I dunno. I think my love of Beyer has waned a bit.



I have the DT1770 with me since last September. I hate sibilance myself, but I love this headphone a lot. It acts very balanced and has brightness without going too far.


----------



## jovian2016

So I just got the sound blaster Zx.  I am looking for a good pair of headphones to go along with them.  I am looking at sennheiser hd 558, 598 or 600.  I have a bluetooth set I use for general listening at the office through my phone so need to worry about driving them on the phone.  Will be playing WoW, BF4, Final Fantasy 14 as well as some communication (already have an external mic).  
  
 I am new to this so I can't really say that I have a specific preference on sound yet.  I can say that very high treble like in bose headphones overtime starts to wear on my ears as well as bass.  So I guess something a bit more neutral.
  
 Would the 600 need a different amp/dac considering the sound blaster Zx already has all that built in?  Or would one of the others be better.
  
 Thanks.


----------



## robwiel

Hi,
  
 Looking for gear recommendation for headphone immersive gaming 3d/2d and music. Would greatly appreciate help.
 Would love to keep decent positioning and better music experience when switching to nongaming headset.
  
  
*Currently my PC:*
 X-Fi titanium pcie >> amp: C&C BH (temporary) analogue 3.5mm >> Bayerdynamic custom one plus (16 Ohms) 
 + V-moda boompro mic when arrives
 Win10, danielk drivers
  
*Recommendations for my PC:*
 X-Fi titanium pcie needs changing into anything more modern? Should I just get SB X7 for those headphones without any amps to gain quality and keep virtual surround?
 Amp or no amp? O2, shiit magni/asgaard2/bifrost seem to be most common
 Using TOSLink from X-Fi or keep analogue?
 Any other closed headphones compatible with v-moda mic? (Alpha Dog seems overkill)
 Do I need anything else?
  
*My current impressions and budget*
 Sound on my headphones seems better with my AMP, I am looking for alternative though (noise while charging):
 I have another 500 usd to complete setup, I can return bayerdynamic headphones but couldn't find closed headphone option out of linked choices.
 For reference my portable listening:
 I have c&c bh amp
 And IEM 'custom art music one' which are amazing but hard to remove and for gaming would prefer closed cans.
 This amp though is noisy when charging and not sure if good fit for computer setup and virtual 5.1/7.1 as described in guide
  
 So far what I found out by digging through 235 pages of Nameless thread:
 Build-in amp in SB X-Fi PCIE would be enough for 16 Ohms headphones
 Also X7 might be interesting option without any other elements in chain
  
 regards,
 Any help would be appreciated.
  
 p.s.
 removed all links due to post limitation


----------



## Imperatore

I have finally made a decision and the purchases to go with them.  AKG K712 Pro + Schiit Magni/Modi stack.  I am going to see how I find this for stereo gaming before I get a Mixamp, as I have a feeling I may not miss the DSS.


----------



## PacoTaco

robwiel said:


> Hi,
> 
> Looking for gear recommendation for headphone immersive gaming 3d/2d and music. Would greatly appreciate help.
> Would love to keep decent positioning and better music experience when switching to nongaming headset.
> ...


 
  
  
 The MSR7 is a great headphone with a 3.5mm connector that can work with the VModa boom mic. It's a better balance for gaming than the Custom One's IMHO.
  
 Honestly though, I wouldn't use a boom mic with a PC. I'd say get a blue snowball for $40 or a blue yeti if you can find one awesomely cheap (like the one I'm selling atm.)
  
 My recommendation, since you're on PC, is to get a Soundblaster G5 and a Magni 2/u. You can use the line out of the G5 to the Magni and still have the DSP's benefits. Not only that, but the G5 can also act as a portable device. That will cost about ~250 to 300 depending on if you buy it used or not.
  
 From there, you can get a MSR7 for $200 and be set. There's also the ZMF Classics if you want to go down the planar route (but they're $300.)


----------



## robwiel

pacotaco said:


> The MSR7 is a great headphone with a 3.5mm connector that can work with the VModa boom mic. It's a better balance for gaming than the Custom One's IMHO.
> 
> Honestly though, I wouldn't use a boom mic with a PC. I'd say get a blue snowball for $40 or a blue yeti if you can find one awesomely cheap (like the one I'm selling atm.)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for quick reply. 
  
 ATH-MSR7
 + I must admit ATH-MSR7 look really nice visually
 + I checked review and they should sound nice as well 
 - 30% price premium in my country over custom one pro plus 
 - not even one mention in whole of PC gaming thread which makes it hard to compare positioning aspect
 - semi-open, I have strong preference for closed due to isolation (as well for person sitting next to me)
  
 For mic options for desk mic I have blue yeti pro/snowflake already figured out (for different purposes than gaming tbh).
  
 SB G5 looks like portable, will look more into that (would choose x7 over this just for looks - G5 would be hidden at all time though).
  
 Would that setup work through TOSLINK as well?
  
 regards,
 Robert


----------



## PacoTaco

robwiel said:


> Thanks for quick reply.
> 
> ATH-MSR7
> + I must admit ATH-MSR7 look really nice visually
> ...


 
 Audiotechnica does very well with positioning usually. There are some exceptions, but this is not one of them. Even though it is semi-open, it seals as well as a closed back from how it measured on innerfidelity. Most headphones actually do well with this, with the exception of some like the DT880 that have an issue with the cups reflecting things.
  
 The G5 setup would work over toslink, allowing you to use a different dac if you wanted to. The X7, however, cannot transfer anything from the SBX over TOSLINK or line out, so you have to use its amplifier. However, it's DAC/AMP are slightly better than the Modi2u/Magni2u, so that's pretty nice.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

hi guys i found this thread about gaming headphones,worth taking a look  https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/3tu9gl/guide_headphones_gaming/


----------



## mukumi

Yo, small feedback concerning the dt990. Just listened to some tracks so this is not a definitive opinion. I really like them, they are quiet comfortable and this is the signature that i was looking for. Didn't test in any game yet so I won't say anything about gaming .

As for the trebles I do not find them too hard, maybe it's the Sound Blaster E5 which has some rolloff with those frequencies?

Last thing, if I set the E5 on high gain I cant put the volume higher than 10% else it will blow my ears. I find it quiet weird :s


----------



## vi Josh

hey guys, i know im being that jack ass that doesnt read all the comments but man theres a lot and i have found that the more i read the more i end up at square one.
 basically im a console gamer (xbox one) and i remember the day i got my turtle beach x41's my got it was glorious, every footstep, reading the review on the sound baster x7 sounds like it delivers the same result but that is quite a price tag and im hoping its a bit overkill for console gaming. im just so overloaded with information atm im at my wits end and about to say stuff it all im just gonna buy astro a50s.
  
 can anyone give me a straight answer
 for xbox one gaming what is the best set up for immersive gaming on a $500 budget, it can be pushed slightly.
  
 thanks heaps for anyone that chimes in and i know im asking a headslapper question im sorry ! haha


----------



## PacoTaco

ni6htwalker said:


> hi guys i found this thread about gaming headphones,worth taking a look  https://www.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/3tu9gl/guide_headphones_gaming/


 

 Zeos has odd opinions and his recommendations are often questionable. He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit and make recommendations with amazon links to his affiliated store dealio to make money off of it. When he got banned from said subreddit for it, but bitched enough to get unbanned and make his own subreddit.
  
 HE also, more or less, believes the AT M50x is a neutral headphone and the ODAC is perfect (and that the Bifrost MB is no different from the ODAC.) Sooo take **** he says with a large grain of salt. He usually has no idea what he's talking about, or is trying to make money off you.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

pacotaco said:


> Zeos has odd opinions and his recommendations are often questionable. He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit and make recommendations with amazon links to his affiliated store dealio to make money off of it. When he got banned from said subreddit for it, but bitched enough to get unbanned and make his own subreddit.
> 
> HE also, more or less, believes the AT M50x is a neutral headphone and the ODAC is perfect (and that the Bifrost MB is no different from the ODAC.) Sooo take **** he says with a large grain of salt. He usually has no idea what he's talking about, or is trying to make money off you.


 

 ahh ok!!thank you for letting me know about this guy.


----------



## jthom320

pacotaco said:


> Zeos has odd opinions and his recommendations are often questionable. He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit and make recommendations with amazon links to his affiliated store dealio to make money off of it. When he got banned from said subreddit for it, but bitched enough to get unbanned and make his own subreddit.
> 
> HE also, more or less, believes the AT M50x is a neutral headphone and the ODAC is perfect (and that the Bifrost MB is no different from the ODAC.) Sooo take **** he says with a large grain of salt. He usually has no idea what he's talking about, or is trying to make money off you.


 

 That is a really simplified dismissal of a dude that's probably touched more gear then anyone here.  I don't agree with all of Zeo's reviews but I have no doubt at all that he reports what he hears.  Which is a whole lot better then a lot of the powers that be even on places like Head-Fi.  
  
 Dude isn't making any money of 20k youtube subs and amazon affiliate links.  Trust me on that.  Also he hates the M50s and his review is a bit more nuanced then that.  
  
 The fact of the matter is that unless you are using extremely expensive gear it's not all that likely you are going to hear any difference between any Schiit DAC and the ODAC.  Why do you think DAC reviews are so nebulous in the first place.  They measure past the point of being audible and any differences you do hear more then likely are from the analog stage anyway.
  
 Anyway I respect him for the same reason I respect MLE.  I feel comfortable knowing he reports exactly what he hears and I know he's used a lot of gear.  Not much more you can ask for.


----------



## PacoTaco

jthom320 said:


> That is a really simplified dismissal of a dude that's probably touched more gear then anyone here.  I don't agree with all of Zeo's reviews but I have no doubt at all that he reports what he hears.  Which is a whole lot better then a lot of the powers that be even on places like Head-Fi.
> 
> Dude isn't making any money of 20k youtube subs and amazon affiliate links.  Trust me on that.  Also he hates the M50s and his review is a bit more nuanced then that.
> 
> ...


 
 He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit recommendation thread and only post headphones he linked to his amazon affiliates crap. That's the issue with it. It's a very large ethical issue. I also hate the M50s, but because they're incredibly V-shaped and not neutral at all, which is the complete opposite of what he stated (and my opinion is by far the more prevalent one...not to mention the more measured one.) Because he provides affiliated amazon links for headphones he listens to, that brings to question the actual authenticity of his reviews (because no one can say 100% he doesn't have a slight positive bias if he's going to end up trying to post an amazon link to the headphone.)
  
 I won't even go into the DAC thing, because that will lead to a whole huge argument that is completely unnecessary in this thread. But, nonetheless, he is not a reliable resource, despite how much gear he's listened to.


----------



## KhaledM

vi josh said:


> hey guys, i know im being that jack ass that doesnt read all the comments but man theres a lot and i have found that the more i read the more i end up at square one.
> basically im a console gamer (xbox one) and i remember the day i got my turtle beach x41's my got it was glorious, every footstep, reading the review on the sound baster x7 sounds like it delivers the same result but that is quite a price tag and im hoping its a bit overkill for console gaming. im just so overloaded with information atm im at my wits end and about to say stuff it all im just gonna buy astro a50s.
> 
> can anyone give me a straight answer
> ...


 
 Check out the Philips X2, but be careful and buy it from a seller with a good return policy because there are some defective units.


----------



## lenroot77

Can anyone be comment on the durability of the v-moda? Thanks


----------



## rudyae86

pacotaco said:


> Zeos has odd opinions and his recommendations are often questionable. He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit and make recommendations with amazon links to his affiliated store dealio to make money off of it. When he got banned from said subreddit for it, but bitched enough to get unbanned and make his own subreddit.
> 
> HE also, more or less, believes the AT M50x is a neutral headphone and the ODAC is perfect (and that the Bifrost MB is no different from the ODAC.) Sooo take **** he says with a large grain of salt. He usually has no idea what he's talking about, or is trying to make money off you.


 
 I follow him and I agree with some of his reviews...some, not so much but he does know his stuff when it comes to Speakers and A/V units. Like the Sennhieser HD 380 Pro, which I think the PC350 SE and G4ME Zero are based of from....he mentions that it doesn't sound as great as the HD 280 and so on and so on while other people say that the 380 Pro is a well worth upgrade from the 280 Pro. I have a pair of PC350 SE headset and used it for a while for FPS games and honestly, it does really well for a closed back while doing competitive gaming.

 But Zeos in general doesn't think otherwise and he loves his custom HD600 to death. So yeah, some things he knows very well....headphones, I think he is biased with some headphones


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> Can anyone be comment on the durability of the v-moda? Thanks


 

 Have had mine for over a year, so far so good. Using it with Philips Fidelio X2.


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> Have had mine for over a year, so far so good. Using it with Philips Fidelio X2.




Cool might have to check it out as just picked up a pair of X1's recently.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jovian2016 said:


> So I just got the sound blaster Zx.  I am looking for a good pair of headphones to go along with them.  I am looking at Sennheiser HD 558, 598 or 600.  I have a Bluetooth set I use for general listening at the office through my phone so need to worry about driving them on the phone.  Will be playing WoW, BF4, Final Fantasy 14 as well as some communication (already have an external mic).
> I am new to this so I can't really say that I have a specific preference on sound yet.  I can say that very high treble like in Bose headphones overtime starts to wear on my ears as well as bass.  So I guess something a bit more neutral.
> Would the 600 need a different amp/dac considering the sound blaster Zx already has all that built in?  Or would one of the others be better.


 
  
 The HD558/HD598 should do a better job (or at a minimum match), for FPS gaming, compared to the Sennheiser HD600 (or HD650).
 The HD558 and HD598 use the same 50-Ohm driver.
 Buy a used HD558, remove the black rubber tape from inside the cups, making the HD558 more open, more like the HD598.
  
 If your more into music, then the HD600 (or HD650) would be the better choice.


----------



## lenroot77

One other question... Can anyone recommend a quality 1/4 to 1/8 (3.5mm) adapter? Say under 25 bucks. Seems to be a lot of cheap ones on Amazon... I'm just looking for something a little better.


----------



## vi Josh

khaledm said:


> Check out the Philips X2, but be careful and buy it from a seller with a good return policy because there are some defective units.


 
 thanks man appreciate it do i need a dac for these?


----------



## PurpleAngel

robwiel said:


> Looking for gear recommendation for headphone immersive gaming 3d/2d and music. *Currently my PC:*
> X-Fi titanium PCI-E >> amp: C&C BH (temporary) analogue 3.5mm >> Beyerdynamic custom one plus (16 Ohms)
> *Recommendations for my PC:*
> X-Fi titanium PCI-E needs changing into anything more modern? Should I just get SB X7 for those headphones without any amps to gain quality and keep virtual surround?
> ...


 
  
 Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the Titanium card.
  
 Is your Titanium sound card the Titanium-HD or regular Titanium card (non-HD)
 (I'll assume it's the regular Titanium)
  
 Can't see a good reason for getting the Creative Labs X7, not the best way to spend your audio budget.
  
 You could just hook an external headphone amplifier to the Titanium's Front Speaker/Headphone jack.
 Leaves a lot of your audio budget for headphones
 Or you could just keep using the Titanium card and connect an external (optical) DAC to it and a headphone amplifier to the DAC.
 The DAC might not help for gaming, but should improve audio quality for music and movies (and make games sound better).
  
 Another option is to replace the Titanium with a Sound Blaster Z,
 better DAC chip and decent headphone amplifier, compared to the Titanium (non-HD)
 The Titanium uses CMSS-3D headphone, the SB-Z uses SBX Headphone.


----------



## KhaledM

vi josh said:


> thanks man appreciate it do i need a dac for these?


 
 Sorry, my knowledge in audio is not that great honestly, and I hate to give imprecise information 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





, so I will leave this technical question to other members with a better idea about this matter, hopefully someone else will give you a reliable answer.


----------



## PurpleAngel

vi josh said:


> hey guys, i know I'm being that jack ass that doesn't read all the comments but man there's a lot and i have found that the more i read the more i end up at square one.
> basically I'm a console gamer (xBox one) and i remember the day i got my turtle beach x41's my got it was glorious, every footstep, reading the review on the sound baster x7 sounds like it delivers the same result but that is quite a price tag and I'm hoping its a bit overkill for console gaming. I'm just so overloaded with information atm I'm at my wits end and about to say stuff it all I'm just gonna buy Astro a50s.
> can anyone give me a straight answer
> for xBox one gaming what is the best set up for immersive gaming on a $500 budget, it can be pushed slightly.
> thanks heaps for anyone that chimes in and i know I'm asking a headslapper question I'm sorry ! haha


 
  
 Do not need to spend $500 for headphone audio with any gaming console.
  
 Astro Mix-amp (maybe find used off eBay)
 Sennheiser HD558 headphone (used off Amazon or eBay) or Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) headphone.
 Any add-on mic you like.
 So you might end up spending around $200-$250.
 Maybe under $200 if you can find good deals on used.


----------



## PurpleAngel

lenroot77 said:


> One other question... Can anyone recommend a quality 1/4 to 1/8 (3.5mm) adapter? Say under 25 bucks. Seems to be a lot of cheap ones on Amazon... I'm just looking for something a little better.


 
  
 I've had good luck with Hosa products
 Hosa MHE-100.5, $3.95​ http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408065-REG/Hosa_Technology_MHE_100_5_Stereo_Mini_Angled_Male.html


----------



## Helvetica bold

Im really curious about PlayStation VR's 3D object audio. Will this be like Dolby Atmos and why
not license it? 

"It carries out object-based 3D audio processing ("really good and important to VR")."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-what-does-playstation-vr-external-processor-unit-actually-do


----------



## jthom320

pacotaco said:


> He use to hang out on the headphones subreddit recommendation thread and only post headphones he linked to his amazon affiliates crap. That's the issue with it. It's a very large ethical issue. I also hate the M50s, but because they're incredibly V-shaped and not neutral at all, which is the complete opposite of what he stated (and my opinion is by far the more prevalent one...not to mention the more measured one.) Because he provides affiliated amazon links for headphones he listens to, that brings to question the actual authenticity of his reviews (because no one can say 100% he doesn't have a slight positive bias if he's going to end up trying to post an amazon link to the headphone.)
> 
> I won't even go into the DAC thing, because that will lead to a whole huge argument that is completely unnecessary in this thread. But, nonetheless, he is not a reliable resource, despite how much gear he's listened to.


 
 One headphone review out of 100+ isn't worth hanging on.  There's no point even engaging in that with you on that.  I don't agree with Tyll that the X2's are as good as HD 600's.  Oh well.
  
 I don't know anything about the affiliate links but what is the conspiracy?  Affiliate links on amazon are a legit way of earning money for people in on youtube or other public facing businesses.  There's no way you could spin that to being biased.  I could buy a tooth brush with his affiliate link and he'd get a cut.  Who cares?  And if you do care research the program there's no conspiracy.  There's no ethical issue, lol.  I use Linus Tech Tip's link sometimes because I like to support them when I can remember and I'm not joining patreon.
  
 Fair enough on the DAC thing.


----------



## PacoTaco

jthom320 said:


> One headphone review out of 100+ isn't worth hanging on.  There's no point even engaging in that with you on that.  I don't agree with Tyll that the X2's are as good as HD 600's.  Oh well.
> 
> I don't know anything about the affiliate links but what is the conspiracy?  Affiliate links on amazon are a legit way of earning money for people in on youtube or other public facing businesses.  There's no way you could spin that to being biased.  I could buy a tooth brush with his affiliate link and he'd get a cut.  Who cares?  And if you do care research the program there's no conspiracy.  There's no ethical issue, lol.  I use Linus Tech Tip's link sometimes because I like to support them when I can remember and I'm not joining patreon.
> 
> Fair enough on the DAC thing.




The ethical issue isn't making money off of it. The ethical issue was him ignoring the subreddit rules and sitting in the Daily Recommendations Thread and posting his affiliated links as a response to every question. It was always the same headphones, and sometimes he'd just leave the link and leave.


----------



## jthom320

pacotaco said:


> The ethical issue isn't making money off of it. The ethical issue was him ignoring the subreddit rules and sitting in the Daily Recommendations Thread and posting his affiliated links as a response to every question. It was always the same headphones, and sometimes he'd just leave the link and leave.


 
 So when we get right down to it he broke the rules once on reddit so we should throw out all his work?
  
 Ok, fair enough man.  I'll leave it at that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People get mad at affiliate links?

Look, I make no money off this hobby/guide whatsoever. I made a few hundred publishing reviews for Headphone.guru (as a freelance reviewer for the site for a few reviews). Other than that and sometimes getting to keep a headphone here or there (after the fact, as in they tell me that I don't need to send it back), I make absolutely nothing off this.

But if I could, with just a few affiliate links, people would think I'm a sell out? Do you know how expensive this hobby is? If I can make $20 for posting an affiliate link to a headphone I reviewed, how is that bad? You gonna pay my bills? No. So while I have never done that (I'm either too lazy, or dumb to go through all that process), I don't see how someone trying to earn a living through this hobby is a bad thing. Unless that guy is getting paid DIRECTLY by the people whose products he is reviewing, using an affiliate link is the less harmful than asking for a donation to keep his head above water. The person BUYING a product doesn't have to spend extra, and he earns essentially what amounts to a referral fee.

Sit down because I'm about to get REAL. This isn't to stir up sympathy or whatever, this is just the truth, take it or leave it (I put myself in this depressing state, no one else). I basically earn minimum wage. I'm in my 30s now, and I had to move back in with my mother because I couldn't afford my own place after my ex, and then roommates moved out of my apartment. I sleep on a futon on the floor, constantly questioning all the decisions I have made in my life, and how I basically threw it away.

Yet, here I am, doing reviews for basically no benefit of my own but because I used to love this hobby. If I could make a decent amount of money by just having an affiliate link to headphones I really recommend to you guys, would that be so bad? Does that throw a red flag? You can check any and all of the links for any of the reviews I have. there are no affiliate links. Just straight product pages, and perhaps an Amazon link if the headphone is available.

Anywhoo, it just bothers me that people look down on others that perhaps get sponsored and or paid. Nothing in this life is free. As long as the reviewer is clear that he isn't endorsed by the product in question, people have no right to complain. If I was endorsed by say....Astrogaming to put in an ad in a video... that video wouldn't be reviewing an Astro product.

As for reviewer bias... guess what? We are ALL biased. There is no such thing as an unbiased reviewer. We clearly have our preferences. However, there is such thing as an OBJECTIVE review. An example of that is something like my T70p review. The T70p isn't my cup of tea. It's my personal bias that I prefer a warmer, bolder sound, and will never have a general like for headphones like the T70p despite knowing it's a good headphone that serves the need of others. That being said, I try to be objective and review the headphone as someone who is INTO brighter, detailed headphones instead.


----------



## robwiel

purpleangel said:


> Hopefully you disabled the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the Titanium card.
> 
> Is your Titanium sound card the Titanium-HD or regular Titanium card (non-HD)
> (I'll assume it's the regular Titanium)
> ...



Yes its non-hd. Virtualized 7.1 through cmss3d. Optical should carry over that setting or "what u hear" trick would allow for keeping it.

So G5 is better than component than schiit stack?

Regards
R


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> People get mad at affiliate links?
> 
> Look, I make no money off this hobby/guide whatsoever. I made a few hundred publishing reviews for Headphone.guru (as a freelance reviewer for the site for a few reviews). Other than that and sometimes getting to keep a headphone here or there (after the fact, as in they tell me that I don't need to send it back), I make absolutely nothing off this.
> 
> ...




No, he's been twisting my words and misunderstanding me. Everyone has a right to make money off what they do. That's fine. Many youtubers make their money off ads, and Twitch streamers get it off donations, sponsorships, ads and subscriptions. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's actually a great way to make money doing something you love.

 The difference is, Zeos was lurking in the daily recommendation threads of that subreddit, using only one or two headphones as his usual suggestions, but always either left the affiliated link or pushed for them to use it. Mods on that subreddit asked him to not do that, as it was against the subreddit's rules and not all that great overall. He ignored them until the point where they banned him. However, he got his fans to help him throw such a fit that the mods unbanned him so they could stop being bothered about it. It's not that he "only broke one rule" as much as he kept doing it, then got up In arms when they actually enforced the rule he broke constantly.

Does he have a right to make a kick back off a usually friendly service the subreddit provides without anyone else being able to do the same?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I wasn't directly aiming that at you. It's something I see online regularly. People always complain when people trying to make money, it's crazy


----------



## calpis

Not to be off topic but my HD800 comes in tomorrow. I'm pretty hyped to get them in and see if that 6k peak is going to kill me or not. My days of joining all those MD grab bags finally paid off.


----------



## Fegefeuer

nice
  
 What will you be driving them with?


----------



## calpis

grace m9xx and X7LE. I have an mstage in the closet though. Not likely to getting another amp any time soon.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, that's good enough for gaming. Do you also game on the PC?


----------



## PurpleAngel

robwiel said:


> Yes its non-hd. Virtualized 7.1 through cmss3d. Optical should carry over that setting or "what u hear" trick would allow for keeping it.
> So G5 is better than component than Schiit stack?


 
  
 The Titanium can send headphone surround sound, thru the optical port.
  
 From my understanding the "What U Hear" trick lowers the audio quality.
 Hopefully you never have to or even want to use it.
  
 I'm not sure how to compare the Creative Labs G3 external sound card to the Schiit stack.
 I would guess the Schiit offers at least a little better audio quality, but the G5 costs less and offer headphone surround sound (and a built in battery?).


----------



## vincent9669

Hey guys,
  
 I am building a new pc and am i really lost what to take for the audio part, sound card, dac, amp, like i really dont know.. 
  
 My budget is like 400- 500 euros for headphones and 300 euros to amp,dac, or a sound card ?? 
  
 It will be mostly use for gaming but i wanna introduce my self to the hi-fi world through this.
  
 I'll be using a AT2020 mic with the setup. 
  
 Thank you !


----------



## Fegefeuer

get a Titanium/SBZ and go optical out to a DAC/AMP. A Schiit Stack is a great introduction.
  
 About headphones I can recommend you to read the starting page.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So tell me how my 3 year old TOTL Panasonic Plasma VT60's HDMI board burned out. (No HDMI inputs work).This is a $200 part that is basically impossible to find now. Plasmas haven't been sold in years.

I was in a panic... then I remembered that HDMI to component converters are sold, and my component input still works. So... yeah $60, and I lose digital quality for analog, but hey, my Tv isn't completely dead. Hopefully the picture quality loss isn't major. I don't remember component looking bad last time I used for my PS3 for testing.

FYI: don't try overclocking your plasmas. They don't take kindly to that unlike lcd displays...

My 60hz laptop display is overclocked to 80hz, and it makes a pretty big difference. Especially when half-framerate is 40fps, which is considerably smoother than 30, without the requirements of 60.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn, that's a shame. Still the best TVs with the greatest blacks + greatest motion resolution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would've agreed with you years ago on motion resolution, but now that LCd and LED sets have strobing black lights modes and/or black frame insertion, they effectively do motion just as good as CRTs.

Seriously, I tested an M series Vizio and a Sony TV with the tech, and OMG, not even my older Panasonic ST30 plasma which had better motion res than the VT60 looked as sharp in motion. basically LCDs do an image in motion as sharp as a stationary image. No blurring whatsoever with LESS input lag. I used to own an older Sasmung LCD that did 240hz without the interpolation, but it added a ridiculous amount of input lag. Still, it was equal or better motion res than plasma for non-gaming purposes.

The best Tv sets do this without that horrible motion interpolation, that dejudders an image. 

Monitors do it too now, under ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur), or whatever they call it under the company naming.

I'd really like a gsync monitor, but I'm hoping for when both ULMB and Gsync can be enabled at the same time (at the moment, you can't).


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, I had 3 Gsync monitors here in the last month and had to send them back. Asus und Acer QA is horrible. I know a few people with 5-12 replacements. 
  
 Other than the horrible BLB and or yellow tone the motion was simply awesome and even better than the already great 144hz experience was VRR with Gsync. No more Vsync Judder with double/tripple buffering, no more tearing.
  
 Gonna try it again in autumn. Maybe there's less panel lottery involved in buying such a monitor. Going back to 60Hz and more blur was a pain in the first few hours.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, been reading up a lot on Gsync monitors lately, and I totally understand the tech. I just don't like that using Gsync turns off ULMB, meaning you're deaaling with native refreshes at 144hz or less. Not that 144hz is bad (that's almost as good as an average plasma in motion), but when ULMB can do better than plasma motion, you want that kind of clarity at all times. Gsync going down to 80 or less as an example is essentially going back to a standard display's motion res.

I have no doubt that they'll find a way to incorporate ULMB with Gsync at the same time. Probably need the display to be 240hz, so that a 120fps Gsync instance is followed by a black frame insertion, effectively giving 120fps the clarity of 240hz. I figure maybe in a few years 240hz native displays will be a thing. 240hz is basically blur free, but will help gsync for gaming when fps fluctuates below 120.

My VT60 has a very awesome motion smoother without interpolation that gives it full motion res, but the input lag spikes up to something along the lines of 120ms. Absolutely woethless to play games with that much lag. That Vizio and Sony were in the 20ms range, which is basically almost hard to perceive. 10ms is basically instant.

Before being an audio guy, I was a TV guy.


----------



## Fegefeuer

240hz would be awesome, is even speculated for 2017 but the thing with all this new tech is. WHO BUILDS A WORTHWILE MONITOR WITH GOOD QA FINALLY.Eizo monitors are my favorite, always, however they will not implement Gsync in the near and later future.
  
 Sorting out coil whine on high end cards is another problem. My graphics card is whine free up to 300fps. Thank God but that's a lottery too. Some even start coil whine at 100fps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> well, I had 3 Gsync monitors here in the last month and had to send them back. Asus und Acer QA is horrible. I know a few people with 5-12 replacements.
> 
> Other than the horrible BLB and or yellow tone the motion was simply awesome and even better than the already great 144hz experience was VRR with Gsync. No more Vsync Judder with double/tripple buffering, no more tearing.
> 
> Gonna try it again in autumn. Maybe there's less panel lottery involved in buying such a monitor. Going back to 60Hz and more blur was a pain in the first few hours.




Kinda hoping for BenQ to have a successor to theirs, since they're essentially the only guys at the time that had both a Displayport AND HDMI inputs. That way I can hook up my PS4 to it, and take advantage of their strobing backlight mode which is separate from the Gsync module.

As for GFX cards, I'm holding out for Pascal to hit with HBM2 memory. The GTX1080 is rumored to use GDDR5X which is a letdown. HBM2 is the future, but I don't trust AMD with their driver support. Still salty when I bought my M17x R4 with 7970s THREE TIMES THAT WOULDN'T WORK RIGHT. I swapped for a 680m, and voila, perfect. Nvidia gets my vote.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, HBM2 is set for 2017 anyway as current yields would lead to 2000$ Titan/TI cards. Even fewer would buy that. Finfet 16 is DOUBLE THE PRICE of 28nm.
  
 Probably have to skip Pascal anyway as I use a Titan X with a custom cooler.


----------



## vi Josh

mad lust envy said:


> So tell me how my 3 year old TOTL Panasonic Plasma VT60's HDMI board burned out. (No HDMI inputs work).This is a $200 part that is basically impossible to find now. Plasmas haven't been sold in years.
> 
> I was in a panic... then I remembered that HDMI to component converters are sold, and my component input still works. So... yeah $60, and I lose digital quality for analog, but hey, my Tv isn't completely dead. Hopefully the picture quality loss isn't major. I don't remember component looking bad last time I used for my PS3 for testing.
> 
> ...


 
 the exact same thing happened to me, mine was caused by a power surge, if you figure out a diy fix let me know, im hoping the board wont be fried and perhaps a touch up on the solder might fix it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, you may be onto something. I overclosed my plasma, and it wasn't damaged. But my Tv messed up an hour or so AFTER my Creative X7 basically went nuts, and almost blew up my ear drums and HE400, where 2% volume and 2% software volume (basically being the weakest of the weakest nomral volume possible) sounded like the equivalent of high gain + volume at 3x the max. yeah, it was that bad. I thought my ears were a goner.

So perhaps it wasn't the X7 or TV tweaking but a sudden surge at home.

My A board is so damn hard to find, and so expensive. ;__; But $60 for an alternative fix is ok.

Feggy, I'm super jealous. I've been eyeing those custom 980tis for a PC build once my computer dies, but was hoping my laptop lasts at least one more year. Since next year is basically the big leap in gfx card tech.

Last time I checked on Titan Xs, they only sold reference cards. I gotta see how custom ones fare against the best 980TI cards. I know the X has double the memory, but I thought the 980TI outperformed them under normal use.


----------



## Fegefeuer

with reference clock the Titan X is faster. Since TIs can come with custom stuff (and thus are always offering a default overcock) they have an easier chance to go higher with air. Many Titan X guys use watercooling and in a few games that extra VRAM comes in handy at higher resolutions.
  
 I bought my Titan X for a TI price so I didn't hesitate. Else I would've bought a Super Jetstream or EVGA TI. Putting on a custom cooler was a bit intensive though. I put a Accelero Xtreme IV on it. Took me more than an hour.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm too scared to DIY stuff like that. AIO cooler is as far as I go, and if it's not an easy bolt on, I won't even do it. Just bad with my hands for that sort of thing.

Should've seen me butcher my Audeze vegan pads to fit on my HE400 directly. I was so frustrated to the point where I almost ripped them off in anger.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I was kinda scared too so I was extra careful. However the only thing you can do wrong is cutting and aligning the protection film wrongly. Most critical part is to draw the lines for the cutout holes that need to let the thermal pads through (which you have to position properly) and cut it carefully. You only have one film. Cut it bad and you can forget the backplate and reorder a film unless you want to fry your card via electr. shortening
  
 As long as that film is cut out safely and is neither overlapping or underlapping everything is ok and everything else is a cakewalk. Just takes a bit time to clean everything properly until you do the main work.


----------



## calpis

fegefeuer said:


> well, that's good enough for gaming. Do you also game on the PC?


 
 Yeah, still game on pc but not quite as much anymore. I still use my H&K AVR-254 for console duty.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> I'm too scared to DIY stuff like that. AIO cooler is as far as I go, and if it's not an easy bolt on, I won't even do it. Just bad with my hands for that sort of thing.
> 
> Should've seen me butcher my Audeze vegan pads to fit on my HE400 directly. I was so frustrated to the point where I almost ripped them off in anger.


 
 EVGA sells a Hybrid cooler (basically the reference cooler, which is actually a pretty good cooler, with an AIO water cooler attached to it) Titan X. They're the only non-waterblock custom card. The reference cooler is for the Vram while the AIO cools the actual chip.
  
 I use to have a Titan X, then a 980ti (No point in owning a Titan X when I can just overclock a 980ti,) and then a Fury X (ultrawide freesync is a lot easier to get a hold of.) Oddly the Fury X is performing the best in a lot of cases, but that's only because Nvidia's drivers have been going ass-backwards lately.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's also because Fury X has HBM which is superior to GDDR5 (at least I hear it makes a difference). Which I hear works best for the upper tier of resolutions, IIRC.

I just have had bad experience with AMD, and I feel GSYNC is superior to Freesync, particularly when things get rough. Freesync doesn't double rates at low fps while Gsync does, which I feel AMD needs to address. Of course,since you got some pretty beefy gear, that won't be an issue. But then again, there are games like Rise of the Tomb Raider that has been known to humble almost everyone's gear. Lol.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> It's also because Fury X has HBM which is superior to GDDR5 (at least I hear it makes a difference). Which I hear works best for the upper tier of resolutions, IIRC.
> 
> I just have had bad experience with AMD, and I feel GSYNC is superior to Freesync, particularly when things get rough. Freesync doesn't double rates at low fps while Gsync does, which I feel AMD needs to address. Of course,since you got some pretty beefy gear, that won't be an issue. But then again, there are games like Rise of the Tomb Raider that has been known to humble almost everyone's gear. Lol.


 
  
 I completely understand. I had a horrid experience with my 295x2 when I tried that, but it was mostly due to the company selling the card, not AMD itself. Their drivers have improved tremendously. A ROTR driver update made it come entirely back up to snuff.
  
 Freesync's advantage is that it is a standard part of VESA firmware, so any manufacturer can implement it for free(ish.) It's still new though, and has the same problems G-sync's already solved. G-sync is the superior service, but then you have to wonder if the extra $200+ premium is worth the cost.
  
 Oddly, going with the LG 21:9 that was only ~$300 has given me better QC than when I tried the panel lottery with the more expensive G-sync (and Freesync) panels.


----------



## Fegefeuer

which LG did you get? 29Um67? 34UM67?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's funny though, in the end I'll probably end up with a good laptop without mobile graphics, and use something like the Razer core eGPU unit.

I do game a lot on the go, so if and when the Razer Core is allowed on other Thunderbolt 3 devices, it may be more appealing to me than getting a desktop. My dreams of a desktop build where also modest, at least in size. As in mini-itx with carrying handles so I can transport on the daily. But then... no monitor to go with that, so again, a laptop makes more sense.

Just wish Razer would come down to the real world on its pricing. $500 for a shell is a lot to ask, though it does bring a 500w psu and its own IO. Still Alienware and MSI's versions are like $300 cheaper.

I would've bought the small Razer ultrabook if it actually had decent ram in it. 8gb is not enough these days. 16gb at minimum. And I'm mad that neither Razer laptop has Gsync. the new Stealth being $2000 is absurd. Why make the Core for it, if you're gonna force a 970m in there for an additional/needless cost? Stupid.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> It's funny though, in the end I'll probably end up with a good laptop without mobile graphics, and use something like the Razer core eGPU unit.
> 
> I do game a lot on the go, so if and when the Razer Core is allowed on other Thunderbolt 3 devices, it may be more appealing to me than getting a desktop. My dreams of a desktop build where also modest, at least in size. As in mini-itx with carrying handles so I can transport on the daily. But then... no monitor to go with that, so again, a laptop makes more sense.
> 
> ...


 

 Asus actually has a laptop out (it's incredibly expensive though) that has a watercooled 980 as an attachment with a 6700k cpu. It's the GX700VO. Nvidia has apparently let other manufacturers create a laptop with a full 980 inside of it and a 6700k cpu with gysnc. Again, it is horrendously expensive (over two grand.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, but I'd be more into a thinner laptop to have whenever I'm not gaming, and the attaching the Core when I do.

After my years with the M17X R4, I'm kinda tired of behemoth laptops. Besides the 980 may be destop, but it's not replaceable. The core makes upgrading easy. I am limited to whatever cpu is inside though with gaming, gpu is much more important.

I can't wait for someone to make an easily upgradeable laptop in general.

Modular laptop. I'd so pay for that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

vincent9669 said:


> I am building a new pc and am i really lost what to take for the audio part, sound card, dac, amp, like i really don't know..
> My budget is like 400- 500 euros for headphones and 300 euros to amp,dac, or a sound card ??
> It will be mostly use for gaming but i wanna introduce my self to the hi-fi world through this.
> I'll be using a AT2020 mic with the setup.


 
  
 For now, get the Sound Blaster Z card and whatever headphones you like, plug the headphones directly into the SB-Z.
 Then you can take your time to consider what, if any, external DAC/amp you might get.
  
 For FPS gaming, Sennheiser HD558 or Audio Technica ATH-AD700X would do the job.
 Going with higher priced headphones will improve sound quality for music, but not gaming.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, but I'd be more into a thinner laptop to have whenever I'm not gaming, and the attaching the Core when I do.
> 
> After my years with the M17X R4, I'm kinda tired of behemoth laptops. Besides the 980 may be destop, but it's not replaceable. The core makes upgrading easy. I am limited to whatever cpu is inside though with gaming, gpu is much more important.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Laptop is thinner, but the docking station for the water cooler is huge. Unfortunately, it isn't upgradeable like you said. With Nvidia's habit of ceasing gpu support after a year and a half to two years, it might end up becoming a frustration.
  


fegefeuer said:


> which LG did you get? 29Um67? 34UM67?


 

 I have a 29UM67. I've owned 3440x1440 panels (too much input lag and the only model with freesync was too expensive) and normal 1440p monitors, so anything larger than that at 1080p would have been atrocious with pixel density. It has pretty good pixel response time and super, super low input lag.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

Mad Lust you talking about M17x R4, is making me miss my M17x R2. It died on me late last year. 

 Even though it was a behemoth of a laptop, I still miss it. 
 Quote: 





mad lust envy said:


>


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> Shouldn't you be bying a pair of matched drivers? Who knows what sorts of minor adjustments or sonic differences were made between what you have and now. Lol.


 
  
 That would be the sensible thing to do, but at that point, I might as well buy a new headphone. Besides, any mass-production headphone is going to have some minor differences between both drivers.
  
 Even then, what's with all the impedance options on mainstream Beyerdynamic drivers? Is there any point besides making them crave a more powerful source? I see no reason to switch from the stock 32-ohm drivers, but there's 80-ohm, 250-ohm and 600-ohm versions, the last of which is an actual MMX300 option for MANUFAKTUR customized models.
  


yethal said:


> Or You can just go full pimp and buy the Tesla drivers


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> Not sure I'd go Tesla. The ones I've heard have been pretty... polarizing to say the least.


 
  
 I wasn't sure if the Tesla drivers even used the same baffle mounting as Beyer's more mainstream models. Even so, I was satisfied with the stock drivers for what it was, and when things get expensive, I get Stax.
  
 You wanna get crazy with driver swap talk, though? What if someone crammed some T50RP drivers into the MMX300 housing, given how extensively that headphone's been modded for what its drivers can do? Orthodynamic gaming headset, baby!
  
 At any rate, I'm not going to worry about it too much in the short term. The only thing that really concerns me about it is that when the PC360 I ordered arrives in a few days, I won't be able to properly A/B the two headsets and have to go off memory for the MMX300.


----------



## Imperatore

Can I fit a boom pro to the K712,Pros? Presumably it works with any headphone featuring a detachable cord?


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> Can I fit a boom pro to the K712,Pros? Presumably it works with any headphone featuring a detachable cord?


 

 You'd need a 3-pin XLR to minijack adapter


----------



## Ni6htWalker

imperatore said:


> Can I fit a boom pro to the K712,Pros? Presumably it works with any headphone featuring a detachable cord?


 

 + 1 same question for the HD598.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

guys what headphone i buy Fidelio X1 or Fidelio X2?


----------



## Imperatore

yethal said:


> You'd need a 3-pin XLR to minijack adapter




I've never seen that connection before! Why on earth do they use that.


----------



## Yethal

ni6htwalker said:


> + 1 same question for the HD598.


 


 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter like this one.
   


imperatore said:


> I've never seen that connection before! Why on earth do they use that.


 

 Because Austrians are crazy people. This adapter will do.


----------



## Imperatore

Thanks again. Was much easier with my X1s. Just hope these new phones meet my needs.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

yethal said:


> 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter like this one.
> 
> Because Austrians are crazy people. This adapter will do.


 
 super cool,thank you Yethal!!!


----------



## Yethal

No problem. Keep in mind though that this adapter will require a slight modification to the jack inside the HD598 (nothing permanent, the plastic lock that keeps the cable in place needs to be unscrewed and removed)


----------



## Imperatore

Sorry me again. Do I want male or female Xlr adapter?

Amazon Uk

So a mix amp for chat and virtual surround if I wish, and a Schiit Magni II uber and I'm sorted right? No need for the modi dac as the mix amp is essentially a dac?


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> Sorry me again. Do I want male or female Xlr adapter?
> 
> Amazon Uk
> 
> So a mix amp for chat and virtual surround if I wish, and a Schiit Magni II uber and I'm sorted right? No need for the modi dac as the mix amp is essentially a dac?


 

 This one won't do.
  
 As for the rest of the question, yes You're correct.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

yethal said:


> No problem. Keep in mind though that this adapter will require a slight modification to the jack inside the HD598 (nothing permanent, the plastic lock that keeps the cable in place needs to be unscrewed and removed)


 

 yeah i just found about that in another thread,today i get on my mail box the PC360,i will test them tonight if i dont like the sound i will order the V-Moda boom mic to use with my HD598.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ni6htwalker said:


> guys what headphone i buy Fidelio X1 or Fidelio X2?


 
  
 From my understanding, the Fidelio X2 is slightly better then the Fidelio X1.
 So if the X1 is a lot cheaper then the X2 for you, might as well get the X1.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

purpleangel said:


> From my understanding, the Fidelio X2 is slightly better then the Fidelio X1.
> So if the X1 is a lot cheaper then the X2 for you, might as well get the X1.


 

 yeah both headphones have good reviews,i think i will go for the X2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The X2 is more balanced and cleaner sounding. The X1 is like a wamrer, bass heavy version of the X2. The X2 has pretty beefy bass as is, so unless you want to go further into bass terriroty, the X2 will suffice.


----------



## KhaledM

mad lust envy said:


> The X2 is more balanced and cleaner sounding. The X1 is like a wamrer, bass heavy version of the X2. The X2 has pretty beefy bass as is, so unless you want to go further into bass terriroty, the X2 will suffice.




As far as I know I still can get that extra bass found in the X1 by using an EQ If I would like to get that increase down the line and I'll get a similar outcome


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

EQ is always a factor in any headphone. As long as the drivers can handle it, it's always something that can be done. However, EQ-ing incurs SQ loss by frequency manipulation, whereas a headphone tuned by factory will be at its optimal driver balance. You lose fidelity with EQ as opposed to just buying a bass heavy headphone.


----------



## KhaledM

Yeah I totally overlooked that point, thanks for the clarification


----------



## Ni6htWalker

mad lust envy said:


> The X2 is more balanced and cleaner sounding. The X1 is like a wamrer, bass heavy version of the X2. The X2 has pretty beefy bass as is, so unless you want to go further into bass terriroty, the X2 will suffice.


 

 damn then i want both headphones
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





my favorite music is rock heavy metal,hard rock,aor,gothic,so i think the X2 is ok for this kind of music.


----------



## Imperatore

mad lust envy said:


> EQ is always a factor in any headphone. As long as the drivers can handle it, it's always something that can be done. However, EQ-ing incurs SQ loss by frequency manipulation, whereas a headphone tuned by factory will be at its optimal driver balance. You lose fidelity with EQ as opposed to just buying a bass heavy headphone.




Isn't using Dolby headphone the same then as it alters the sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Umm, it adds actual surround sound? And we on this thread have many times stated that virtual surround DSPs lower overall sound quality for the benefit of surround sound, which is a massive benefit in aural headspace (basically turning sound from 2d to 3d). As I said before, if I had a choice between a $50,000 headphone setup that plays in just stereo, and a $15 one that plays in virtual surround (with absolutely no other options available), I'd take the cheap solution every single time. The benefit of virtual surround is that important to me for gaming and whatever else benefits from it like movies.

The topic was about a headphone tuned a certain way vs a headphone EQed to sound like it was tuned differently. As I said, a mildly bassy headphone like the X1 being bassy at its default state has less detriments to sound quality compared to an X2 that is EQ'ed to sound like an X1. EQ is basically distorting the natural tone of a headphone's frequency, to sound like something else.

This is why I don't typically EQ. I only do that if a headphone has a really nasty spike somewhere like in the upper mid to treble range, or if the bass is too lean. And even then, I rather not.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm not surprised that MLE is not heavily into DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING. 
  
 I agree on EQ as it changes spatial info WITH HRTF solutions as the equalization which already happens through the HRTF solution itself is changed with the "post-processed" EQ you apply with whatever you are using, even if it's the own EQ of your soundcard.
  
 For instance CRYSTALLIZER with CMSS-3D changes the spatial perception. Yes, it's a dynamic EQ but try normal EQ as well and see for yourself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Let me know of any flaws guys. You know I'm blind to some things, despite reading over and correcting this like 10 times.



> ----------
> ----------
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Imperatore

Please don't confuse my ignorance for any kind of hostility.  I am still learning most of the terminology and thus anything I write is written with a complete lack of understanding, also I have aspergers so sometimes I write things in a way that I don't initially see as coming across rude but when it's pointed out I can .  Whils't I'm here, can anyone recommend an amp for the K712 Pro that I can actually get in the UK?  The Schiit ones seem to be out of stock everywhere and most are overkill.  The ones suggested in the guide (FiiO E12) I don't understand how that connects to Mixamp Pro as it lacks the RCA which I understand the Mixamp would connect to the (Schiit) with a 3.5mm to RCA.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, I didn't take your comment as rude. I actually felt my reply came across as sarcastic. I actually didn't mean it that way. Text tone is a problem people have with me, despite I not actually trying to sound like an ass all the time. Only sometimes. 

The E12 has an standard 3.5mm input (the one next to the headphone jack), so any regular cable between the Mixamp's headphone jack and the E12 is fine.


I wish it wasn't so close to it, and on the side or back instead.


----------



## Imperatore

Thanks for clarifying, as you say text tone is hard to interpret at the best of time let alone with my issues   Is there any quality issues with using 3.5mm rather than RCA?  Would I benefit from getting a slighlty better 3.5mmcable is basically what I'm asking here I think, I had a Fisual S-Flex on my X1's which was nice for the non kink prevention but isn't really an issue on a static setup.
 I understand I'd have the MixAmp turned up to max volume and control volume from the amp itself at this point as well. 
  
 Anyone have experience with this amp? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Dot-MKII-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00A2QMAI2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1458301480&sr=8-7&keywords=headphone+amp
  
 Also MixAmp Pro 2013 is a little hard to find now so I decided to go for the latest TR (whatever that means) one, hopefully just as good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

imperatore said:


> Thanks for clarifying, as you say text tone is hard to interpret at the best of time let alone with my issues   Is there any quality issues with using 3.5mm rather than RCA?  Would I benefit from getting a slighlty better 3.5mmcable is basically what I'm asking here I think, I had a Fisual S-Flex on my X1's which was nice for the non kink prevention but isn't really an issue on a static setup.
> I understand I'd have the MixAmp turned up to max volume and control volume from the amp itself at this point as well.




Nah, no real benefit going from RCA to 3.5mm. Perhaps a thicker, higher quality wiring for channel transmission, but in real world use, it's unnoticeable. Considering that the RCA's separate channels will end up in the same amplification path down the line, it's not really gonna make a difference. Don't worry too much about quality, as long as cables aren't piss poor. Hell, I'm still using a 3.5mm cable from my FIRST Mixamp back in 2010.

The only thing to worry about for 3.5mm cables is when you're using them as a headphone cable, where cable impedance and resistance may make a small difference (like very small). The Philips Fidelio X1 is such a case, where it came with a less than stellar cable as far as impedance goes. For pre-amplification signal path, an amp's input resistance (IIRC) is so high, it won't make a difference.

As for Mixamp, don't worry about 2013. I only have the year mentioned because that was the one I reviewed . That was the worst one anyways. I'd go for the TR, which I hear fixes the 2013's issues.

As for amps, try Project 1217 stuff? His stuff is popular. I'd personally want the Polaris.


----------



## Imperatore

Thank you very much for your detailed replies.  Whils't some of it was far too technical, I think I got the jist of it!  So tomorrow I will have the K712 Pro's, latest Mixamp, and the FiiO E10, I think I'll 'make do' with it until I can get the Schiit Magni as it looks nicer basically. I like the look of those amps with the tubes which glow but again as an audio technophobe I don't want to worry about tube replacements. 
 I tried the Playstation Wireless Headset 2.0/Gold last night.  I was hoping I'd like it due to the price but I don't think you can really drop down with audio, the X1's spoiled me a bit I think.  It sounded ok in Stereo but the VSS, even with bass boost lost so much detail, and I don't remember feeling the same way with the mixamp VSS at all. 
  
 I'm not expecting to be blown away with the new stuff compared to the X1's but after getting interference galore from my Sony HW700DS i decided a wired setup was worth the 'hassle'.
  
 PS:  The Garage amps are again hard to source in the UK so FiiO will do me and if I feel it neccessary I can always get the Magni when available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait... did you order the E10 now? I wouldn't. The E10 is a dac/amp without an analog input. E11 is the cheapest thing as far as enough amping goes, and for the AKGs, I wouldn't do anything less than the E12, Magni preferred really.


----------



## Imperatore

No it's me getting the numbers mixed up again! Like when I ordered a Galaxy S6 Edge instead of S7 Edge >.<  E12 it is (albeit temporarily)
 Decided actually to just wait and get the Magni Uber, I'll make do with the headphones and MixAmp for a bit. 
  
 Edit: Just found website which has the Uber in stock!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For gaming purposes, you may not even need another amp, unless you're using voice chat, where you may need the extra volume. It's no ideal, but gaming with a Mixamp alone is something I did even when I had big boy amps plenty of times.


----------



## Yethal

From what I remember one of companies making the o2 amp is based in uk. Either Mayflower or JDS, i don't remember which one


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe you mean Epiphany Acoustics.


All this time, and I never heard the O2, but ODAC is what I consider to be the best DAC I've heard.


----------



## Imperatore

mad lust envy said:


> For gaming purposes, you may not even need another amp, unless you're using voice chat, where you may need the extra volume. It's no ideal, but gaming with a Mixamp alone is something I did even when I had big boy amps plenty of times.


 

 I will have chat occasionally, once I figured out which stumpy XLR adapter I need to connect the Boom Pro   Most seem to be to a 6.3mm jack, so is that the 'big' headphone connector type you commonly get and I could just stick one on the boom pro?
  
  
 Thanks Yethal, looks like I was looking at the wrong site for Schiit, needed schiit-eu.com not what I was looking at.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

Ever think about trying the Modmic instead of the Boom Pro? 

 Quote: 





imperatore said:


>


----------



## Imperatore

monsieurniceguy said:


>


 

 No, for the simple reason that I'm familiar with the Boom Pro and also Modmic, at least here is nearly twice as expensive so I cannot really justify it for the amount I use it.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

@Mad Lust Envy
  
 Although I've only read two of them (TH-600 and this Ether C one), I enjoy your reviews. You have a writing style that's easy to read with good word choice and vocabulary, yet you maintain a relatively even-keel (regardless of your excitement about the Ether C). Despite me always keeping in mind that every review is one person's opinion, I really got a full sense of what the Ether C are all about, short of trying them myself. They sound like an excellent pair of headphones to me, granted I still can't stomach these prices. Thanks for the thorough write-up.
  
 Since you asked, I think I found a few, minor typographical/grammatical errors:
  
 - Under section Midrange: Paragraph 6. "There is very few rough edges" should be "There _are_..."
  
 - Under section Imaging and Soundstage: Paragraph 5. The word soundstaging is missing the letter _d_. Then in the second sentence of that same paragraph, you should drop the "a" in the part that reads "and the warmest setups have a more intimate sonic traits."
  
 - Under Sound Signature: Paragraph 2. "Bass can become Bigger, fuller, bigger the warmer you go with the tuning pads." The word bigger is used twice. Maybe it should just read "bigger and fuller, the warmer you go..."  or maybe the changes are that BIG 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 .
  
 - Also for those who like to know, you never explicitly state the Ether C's factory specs nor what you're driving them with (audio chain). Maybe that was on purpose or I missed it. I personally didn't _miss _it in reading though, if you know what I mean.
  
 And that's all I think I can comment on. Well done!


----------



## KhaledM

mad lust envy said:


>


 
 Very badass looking headphones


----------



## Ni6htWalker

mad lust envy said:


> For gaming purposes, you may not even need another amp, unless you're using voice chat, where you may need the extra volume. It's no ideal, but gaming with a Mixamp alone is something I did even when I had big boy amps plenty of times.


 

 and if the headphone doesn't have enough BASS (like the HD598) is not a good idea to use and amp with the mixam?i read somewhere that the Fiio E12 Mont Blanc makes a good combo with the HD598.


----------



## PurpleAngel

imperatore said:


> Thanks for clarifying, as you say text tone is hard to interpret at the best of time let alone with my issues   Is there any quality issues with using 3.5mm rather than RCA?  Would I benefit from getting a slightly better 3.5mmcable is basically what I'm asking here I think, I had a Fisual S-Flex on my X1's which was nice for the non kink prevention but isn't really an issue on a static setup.
> I understand I'd have the MixAmp turned up to max volume and control volume from the amp itself at this point as well.
> 
> Anyone have experience with this amp? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Dot-MKII-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00A2QMAI2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1458301480&sr=8-7&keywords=headphone+amp
> ...


 
  
 RCA jacks are more robust then a 3.5mm (1/8") jack.
 The RCA jacks/plugs use a separate ground connection, where as the 3.5mm stereo jack/plug is a shared ground.
 So for serious or processional audio equipment, they would use RCA, over 3.5mm.
  
 For for practical purposes, for the stuff we are talking about, does not really matter which one you use.
  
 $1.88 is around about as much as I would spend for a 3.5mm to RCA cable.
 http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021815&p_id=5596&seq=1&format=2


----------



## martin vegas

I have snagged my AKG545 and my warranties ran out..does anyone know if the K550 mk2 has a better bass than the original K550..don't fancy buying another pair of the 545s!


----------



## Imperatore

purpleangel said:


> RCA jacks are more robust then a 3.5mm (1/8") jack.
> The RCA jacks/plugs use a separate ground connection, where as the 3.5mm stereo jack/plug is a shared ground.
> So for serious or processional audio equipment, they would use RCA, over 3.5mm.
> 
> ...




Thank you for your input. I spent about $9 but I really liked the aesthetic of the cable. I'm under no illusions a cheap one would suffice.


----------



## Evshrug

ni6htwalker said:


> guys one question!! what amp to buy *Fiio E12 'Mont Blanc* or  *Schiit Magni* for a *Mixamp,Ipod* with these headphones HD598 & Sennheiser PC360.



If you want to use the amp on the go or in your lap (set up and put away often), then a portable amp (like the FiiO E12) will prove it's merit. You said you wanted to use it with an iPod (portable), and if you use the Mixamp from a couch then you'd probably prefer the portable headphone too.

If you play sitting at a desk... Might as well take advantage of that desk space and get a desktop amp. The E12 is one of the few portables that sounds (and powers) like a decent desktop amp, pretty close to the Magni actually (Magni comes out slightly ahead, but enough to outweigh the portable benefits IMO), but a nice $200 or $300 desktop amp will wipe the floor with the Magni or E12.

Schiit makes good stuff and has excellent marketing, but they are also hugely popular right now despite other amps being quite competitively priced or better sounding (I would say the Magni and Vali are still entry-level amps).




sam21 said:


> For Desktop use Magni 2 is the best out of those amps.



Between FiiO E12 and Magni 2, yes the Magni 2 sounds better... but also we don't know if he is intending desktop use or not. Just sayin'.




pacotaco said:


> I'm actually going to sell my mmx 300 pretty soon now that my k7xx is coming. Might be a day or two though before I put anything up. Though, it'll probably be priced above A used dt770.
> 
> Anyway, the hd598 is usually known as lacking bass because a lot of people don't think it requires as much amplification as it does. It has a huge impedance swing in the bass region, and needs a bit of amping to bring that out.



Huge impedance swing in the bass region? Seems that way with most Sennheiser headphones 




hi-fi edu said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> Although I've only read two of them (TH-600 and this Ether C one), I enjoy your reviews. You have a writing style that's easy to read with good word choice and vocabulary, yet you maintain a relatively even-keel (regardless of your excitement about the Ether C). Despite me always keeping in mind that every review is one person's opinion, I really got a full sense of what the Ether C are all about, short of trying them myself. They sound like an excellent pair of headphones to me, granted I still can't stomach these prices. Thanks for the thorough write-up.
> 
> ...




Good eye for grammar, I often miss those. And I totally agree, Mad does a great job of including objective descriptions alongside subjective fun. Totally loved the review too.

He said he was driving the Ether C using his X7, which is the Creative Sound Blaster X7. That's a DSP/DAC/Amp all-in-one, not to be confused with FiiO's portable music player X7.


----------



## Evshrug

ni6htwalker said:


> and if the headphone doesn't have enough BASS (like the HD598) is not a good idea to use and amp with the mixam?i read somewhere that the Fiio E12 Mont Blanc makes a good combo with the HD598.




I haven't heard the HD598, but I do appreciate how the moderate bass boost option of the E12 is just enough to counter the roll-off of many headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hi-fi edu said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> 
> Although I've only read two of them (TH-600 and this Ether C one), I enjoy your reviews. You have a writing style that's easy to read with good word choice and vocabulary, yet you maintain a relatively even-keel (regardless of your excitement about the Ether C). Despite me always keeping in mind that every review is one person's opinion, I really got a full sense of what the Ether C are all about, short of trying them myself. They sound like an excellent pair of headphones to me, granted I still can't stomach these prices. Thanks for the thorough write-up.
> ...




Thank you so much for the help here! I do tend to miss alot. It's not unusual for me to edit in corrections months after reviews are posted. 

I'll add in the edits soon.

As for factory specs, I'm straying away from these things because I always link the product page on the review title. These are things that are easily found if/when people are actually interested in the headphone, and I feel quoting factory specs is just padding reviews.

I do see a reason for it, but I think it's okay to just link the product page with those details. I may still do it if I remember... 

As people say "All reviewers are biased, but reviews can be objective." I try to be as objective as possible, but I'm not afraid to tell you guys what I like, especially when I talk to you guys most of the time, and don't keep those things secret. Lol.

In any case, I made it to where I'm only reviewing headphones I think people will like. If I'm sent something I don't believe will suit a good group of people out there, I will decline reviewing them (if a company itself sends me a product). If it's an individual who sent me the headphones for review and I don't like them, I'm likely to publish still if they really want me to. I feel this can keep me on good business terms with companies, as I can at least highlight their good products. Not that I ever get paid by them, but I think bashing their stuff make them adamant about sending me products in the future that may actually be good. So better to talk about good stuff and skip bad stuff than talk about bad stuff and never hear from them again (it has happened in the past).

People can still ask me of headphones I decline to review, and just tell people I didn't like them enough to review. That way I don't waste time reviewing something bad, and wasting everyone's time.

I remember someone telling me that Jude said I have apologetic ears. That means that I can find good aspects with practically any headphone, so even if I'm not into them, I'll talk about all its good aspects to where it sounds like I like them. To be honest, that's pretty true. I honestly don't believe there are 'bad' headphones, at least in head-fi level terms. As long as a headphone isn't absolutely offensive to the ears (like having a massive 5khz spike that is like 10db above everything else), I think at worst, a headphone will fall under average to ok. There have been some true disappointments to my ears (Astro A30), but otherwise, I'm likely to review practically anything I put my mind to, and tell you that it has good traits.


----------



## PacoTaco

mad lust envy said:


> Thank you so much for the help here! I do tend to miss alot. It's not unusual for me to edit in corrections months after reviews are posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you ever get a chance, try out one of the ZMF Headphones. Those seem up your alley, MLE. I liked them more than MrSpeaker's T50 mods.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If/when the time is right, I'll consider it.


I COMPLETELY forgot I had a 4 year Squaretrade warranty for my TV, which I'm only 2 1/2 years in before the HDMI board went dead. 

Filing a claim now, and if they can't find the board (which actually looks pretty likely), I believe they'll pay me back some money to replace it. Thank god. It's something.

Saying it now... warranties sound like rip offs... until you need it. Especially with such a long warranty like 4 years, where anything can go wrong.


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone bought the new Chord Mojo DAC / Amp? And can compare to the Creative X7? If gaming surround sound aside, would this Chord Mojo sound better than the X7?


----------



## Change is Good

So, what are the expectations around here regarding PS VR? Anyone else curious as to whether it will be a hit or miss? Me, personally, the price is too high to take the plunge right away. But once all the kinks are worked out post-launch, and a price falls to maybe 300, I wouldn't mind trying the VR with my 400i over my ears 

Then again, that will about 800 grams of weight on my head between the two... yikes

Edit that: The PS VR is 600+ grams alone, so about 1000 grams total with my 400i... double yikes


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone bought the new Chord Mojo DAC / Amp? And can compare to the Creative X7? If gaming surround sound aside, would this Chord Mojo sound better than the X7?



 


Most probably yes, although You have to keep in mind that Mojo is many times as much expensive and offers few of the X7's functionalities.



change is good said:


> So, what are the expectations around here regarding PS VR? Anyone else curious as to whether it will be a hit or miss? Me, personally, the price is too high to take the plunge right away. But once all the kinks are worked out post-launch, and a price falls to maybe 300, I wouldn't mind trying the VR with my 400i over my ears
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Unless the headsets are fully wireless I'm not going to bother with them. Having an HDMI + 2 USB going from the PC/console all the way to my head sounds silly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

After having experienced VR in 1440p, and it looking pixellated and muddy as hell.... I have zero, ZERO desire to get into VR until they start using 4K screens. 1080p is gonna look god awful.

I'm not even referring to the sheer technicalities of a system, but the simple fact that the resolution is way too low to be so close to your face. It ruins immersion for me when I can see pixels so easily.


Hahaha, Angry Joe gave Division a crap score. All valid opinions that now justifies that poor IGN Review that gave it a 6.7, and everyone went into a hissy fit about.

It is seriously a boring, repetitive chore of a game to play. Destiny was much, MUCH more fun and varied despite how flawed it was.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> So, what are the expectations around here regarding PS VR? Anyone else curious as to whether it will be a hit or miss? Me, personally, the price is too high to take the plunge right away. But once all the kinks are worked out post-launch, and a price falls to maybe 300, I wouldn't mind trying the VR with my 400i over my ears
> 
> Then again, that will about 800 grams of weight on my head between the two... yikes
> 
> Edit that: The PS VR is 600+ grams alone, so about 1000 grams total with my 400i... double yikes


----------



## MichaelJames99

Soundblaster Recon 3D for PS3/PC.  I purchased it 2 years ago from Amazon
  
 Has anyone noticed that the Cinematic Dynamic Range Controls are reversed?
  
 Dynamic Range Control:
  
 Full (maximum)
 Normal (Standard)
 Night (minimum)
  
 These are the 3 choices.  And you would think that "Night" mode would cut down the bass and be the least dynamic with ranges.  But its exactly the opposite.
 Full mode sounds flat, cuts the bass and sounds like a Night mode should.  Night mode is very open..high highs, deep bass.
  
 Whats going on here?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

i just bought the E12 Mont Blanc for $75 dollars on ebay with free shipping,i think it`s a good price.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> jincuteguy said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone bought the new Chord Mojo DAC / Amp? And can compare to the Creative X7? If gaming surround sound aside, would this Chord Mojo sound better than the X7?
> ...


 
  
 Yea I know the Mojo is more expensive but it's only $200 more than the X7.  Can the X7 pass the SBX surround to the Mojo ? If the X7 can't, are there any other Creative soundcards or DAC / Amp that can pass SBX surround to another DAC / Amp? thx


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Yea I know the Mojo is more expensive but it's only $200 more than the X7.  Can the X7 pass the SBX surround to the Mojo ? If the X7 can't, are there any other Creative soundcards or DAC / Amp that can pass SBX surround to another DAC / Amp? thx



 


X7 can't do that as of now, however we are waiting for another firmware update that is supposedly going to bring some new features. Sound Blaster G5 and all other Creative cards can do that though.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

evshrug said:


> but a nice *$200 or $300* desktop amp will wipe the floor with the Magni or E12.


 
 can you recommend a desktop in that price?


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> jincuteguy said:
> 
> 
> > Yea I know the Mojo is more expensive but it's only $200 more than the X7.  Can the X7 pass the SBX surround to the Mojo ? If the X7 can't, are there any other Creative soundcards or DAC / Amp that can pass SBX surround to another DAC / Amp? thx
> ...


 
 What connector does the G5 pass SBX surround out to? Optical out?


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> After having experienced VR in 1440p, and it looking pixellated and muddy as hell.... I have zero, ZERO desire to get into VR until they start using 4K screens. 1080p is gonna look god awful.
> 
> I'm not even referring to the sheer technicalities of a system, but the simple fact that the resolution is way too low to be so close to your face. It ruins immersion for me when I can see pixels so easily.


 
  
 If you think it's bad now, try on a '90s VR headset with abysmally low resolution and FOV! We've made a lot of progress since then, but still need to go farther.
  
 The problem is that out of that 2560x1440 screen on a Gear VR (the only headset at that res you could have tried right now), you only get to see a fraction of the pixels due to the optics. The edges around each eye buffer are considerably wasted!
  

  
 That drives the push for stupidly pixel-dense screens any more, and what's worse is that people are already backlashing over higher than 1920x1080 screens on smartphones because it's effectively wasted outside of VR.
  
 Meanwhile, I just got my PC360 today, and despite the listed cable issue (part of why I got it for under $50 shipped), first impressions are very good indeed. Ridiculously comfy velour pads, light weight, sensitive boom mic, respectable sound quality. I think the MMX300 could reach a bit lower due to its closed design, but the PC360 remains punchy, a good balance of competitiveness and fun.
  
 There is an issue where I can't leave the volume dial up or I start hearing background popping clearly out of my notebook (will test with gaming desktop later), but that could easily be a cable issue. Turning the volume dial down and jacking up system volume helps a lot. Meanwhile, my Note 4 doesn't have that issue with it. Strange...


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> What connector does the G5 pass SBX surround out to? Optical out?



Yup


----------



## jynxed

I have tryed Rift DK1, DK2 and Gear VR, as my husband has had all 3. I become very sick very quickly as it stands now. The only game where I haven't felt like throwing my guts up is Elite Dangerous as far as I recall.

I am hoping the sickness will subside somewhat with the consumer version but we shall see. The husband has a vive, a rift and psvr on pre order so will have the opertunity to see the improvments.

As for gear VR and MLE's experience - good job you didn't see DK1 then! The screen door and chromatic abrasion was horrible compared to gear VR. However, even with the poorer resolution of the dk2 imo it was miles better than gear VR due to the way you could move, leaning in and around objects and the like. 

In fact it is probably a shame more people didn't have the opportunity to try the earlier versions. The evolution has been very noticeable and I have a feeling these people will appreciate the leaps forward the CV versions have made.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Yup


 
 Hey man you're always fast for replying 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 So if I hooked up the Mojo via the Optical out from the G5, then hook up my headphone to the Mojo, it still utilize the DAC + Amp from the Mojo right? And I still get the SBX surround to my headphone?


----------



## Imperatore

I am loving the K712/MixAmp/Magni Uber combo.  A friend chastised me for getting the amp saying it wasn unnceccasry to double amp unless I'm using chat but for some reason I'm inclined to believe what MLE writes    This guide has been more helpfull to me than you'll ever know.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Update on the PC360: the background popping noise problem does *not* happen on my desktop. How peculiar.
  
 I can leave the volume knob at full, and there's no background noise whatsoever. Having the X-Fi Titanium HD in there probably helps.
  
 I mean, my notebook's headphone-out was never that great to begin with, but I've never had that noise issue with any other set I've tried in it, just the PC360.
  
 The mic is also remarkably sensitive, and that's on a card that, for whatever reason, does _not_ have a mic boost checkbox like most X-Fi models. Considering that half the reason people even want to buy a headset is the mic quality, that's good news.
  
 All in all, I can see why MLE liked these things so much for a gaming headset.


----------



## Change is Good

Sony is supposedly working on a console that will do 4k (according to a Kotaku article). If so, I don't get why such the inferior VR headset.

As for Division, don't get me started. I thought I was crazy seeing all the praise, then IGN's and Angry Joe's reviews came out... actually making sense to me.

Even though I played the crap out of Destiny, I have to say Division is better (at least in their respectable vanilla forms, never played Taken King). Both are still crap games for what they try to be, though...


----------



## Imperatore

They (Gawker media) just lost $100+ million to Hulk Hogan so got to get that click bait.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

what is a good place to buy the Fidelio X2?


----------



## Imperatore

ni6htwalker said:


> what is a good place to buy the Fidelio X2?


 

 What country are you in for starters?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

imperatore said:


> What country are you in for starters?


 

 Texas U.S.A


----------



## Imperatore

Ah well I'm in UK BUT I always buy stuff like this from Amazon even if they are not the cheapest.  Purely because of their no quibble returns and customer service.  When buying something that expensive you want peace of mind.  Currently $264 on there but I understand some states have a tax as well to add on?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

imperatore said:


> Ah well I'm in UK BUT I always buy stuff like this from Amazon even if they are not the cheapest.  Purely because of their no quibble returns and customer service.  When buying something that expensive you want peace of mind.  Currently $264 on there but I understand some states have a tax as well to add on?


 

 is good idea to buy stuff from Amazon if you dont like the item we can just return it.


----------



## Imperatore

You're not wrong. Can someone explain in simple terms how I am to connect a mic to these k712s without using 10 different adapters to achieve This?


----------



## Change is Good

imperatore said:


> You're not wrong. Can someone explain in simple terms how I am to connect a mic to these k712s without using 10 different adapters to achieve This?




Modmic, but then you'll have ten different cables. If you want simplicity, you should look at something like the SHP9500, X2, or some other headphone with a 3.5mm jack to work with the Boompro.


----------



## Imperatore

I suppose thats a good excuse to get a pair of X2 as my 'chat phones'


----------



## PurpleAngel

ni6htwalker said:


> Texas U.S.A


 
  
 I've always assumed Texans like to think of Texas as their own little country, with in the USA.


----------



## rudyae86

michaeljames99 said:


> Soundblaster Recon 3D for PS3/PC.  I purchased it 2 years ago from Amazon
> 
> Has anyone noticed that the Cinematic Dynamic Range Controls are reversed?
> 
> ...


 

 I have a Recon3D as well, use it exclusively for console now.
  
 I also trying to figure out this but recently I have lefted at Full. Before, I would just set it at Normal.
  
 As per my opinion, I feel FULL gives me the whole range of what I want to hear without and ups and downs in the sound signature, like NIGHT. Nights actually lowers the loud sounds and increases the soft sounds, which is like the option says, is for night mode, when you are keeping the volume low.
  
 Standard and Full sounds similar to me though, and I have not really paid attention to it, mainly because I play on my PC and I'm using a Xonar DG, to a Schitt Modi 2 Uber, to a Cayin C5 amp, which is in my opinion, way better sounding than the Recon3D (and I use to prefer SBX but now I got use to DH).

 Hopefully someone in here can get technical with the DRC


----------



## Imperatore

I won't lie to you.  I've been switching between jsut MixAmp and MixAmp + Magni and I cannot tell the difference other than the MAgni allows me to go to volume levels which I would never be comfortable with.  I may send it back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People expect amplifiers to be like equalizers. No.

Amps are there to allow whatever headphones you're using to perform at their maximum potential.

Loudness is just a portion of what amplifiers do.

Say, a Sennheiser HD800 (as an example, there are cheaper examples). In order to perform its best, there may be a different power requirement when playing frequencies at 60hz than playing at 2k hz. It can be something like 300ohm for the HD800 normally, and 1000ohm (yes, 1000) in specific bass frequencies. So if you're using an amp that can power 300ohm at best, once the HD800 reaches 1000ohm to perform at 100% in the bass, the amp won't be able to provide enough juice, and the HD800 will sound weak/thin in that section of sound. The sound may be LOUD, but the damage has been done and you're getting a thin, lifeless bass with no punch.

The point is clean, ample power at all times.

You may not notice it with sensitive headphones, but with harder to drive headphones, you're surely going doing a huge disservice.

If it's just gaming, then yes, you may be able to get by with less since you're more focused on screen. But then, what is the purpose of buying good headphones if you're gonna allow them to perform at 60%. Mauy as well get an easy to drive headphone that performs its best without the power needed.

I dunno what you're using, but the AKG K700 series is one of the best headphones to provide good power to.

Would you prefer to drive a car is close to full power at 100mph, or one that can handle 100mph with ease, putting less stress on its long term performance?

Headroom. That's a term people need to understand.

Not to mention, in the future if/when you want a planarmagnetic or harder to drive headphone, rest assured, you WILL curse at yourself for thinking volume was all you needed.


----------



## Imperatore

Thanks for that analogy, it makes a lot of sense.  I am considering swapping the phones for for some X2's as I don't play a huge amount of FPS games to worry about the positional too much and I could then run straight off the MixAmp.


----------



## headphonesonly

Has anyone tried the status audio ob-1 headphones?

And also is there a difference between the ad500x and the ad700x.


----------



## Imperatore

I have an opportunity to get some DT770 (80ohm) for £50, might take a punt.


----------



## KhaledM

I know it's kinda stupid comparing these headphones to each other specially when there is a huge difference in price, but I am curious.
  
  
 How the Philips Fidelio X2, MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, and MrSpeakers Ether C compare to each other in terms of Soundstage, Imaging, bass, and performance in general when plugged to a phone?
  
 Are you going to give the Ether C a score of out of 10 in each category?


----------



## Yethal

khaledm said:


> Are you going to give the Ether C a score of out of 10 in each category?


 
 ^This is the reason MLE stopped assigning numerical scores. People just looked for a tl;dr version of the review instead of reading the full thing. So no, I don't imagine scores being added to this review anytime soon.


----------



## KhaledM

yethal said:


> ^This is the reason MLE stopped assigning numerical scores. People just looked for a tl;dr version of the review instead of reading the full thing. So no, I don't imagine scores being added to this review anytime soon.


 
 But it is nice when you are trying to compare between different headphones, because sometimes the review won't be enough to give someone an idea about the relative headphone performance. A score prevents asking many unnecessary questions sometimes and helps in narrowing down your research.


----------



## Yethal

khaledm said:


> But it is nice when you are trying to compare between different headphones, because sometimes the review won't be enough to give someone an idea about the relative headphone performance. A score prevents asking many unnecessary questions sometimes and helps in narrowing down your research.


 

 Taken from the first paragraph of the guide:
*I NEED TO STRESS THIS. DO NOT COMPARE SCORES FROM ONE REVIEW TO ANOTHER. EACH SCORE IS REFLECTING A HEADPHONE'S OWN MERITS, AND NOT COMPARED TO ANOTHER UNLESS I SPECIFICALLY STATE SO.*


----------



## Change is Good

Aye caramba


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I take scores out and to not compare, and soon after I get asked to compare and give scores.

I don't think I'll ever win.


----------



## FailedToListen

Need a little help.
  
 I currently have the Sennheiser HD 598's paired with the Sound Blaster Z and they've served me well. I would like to try something new. I'm looking to spend no more than $300 on new headphones. If there aren't many headphones in this price range that will give me a much better experience than the 598's, then tell me so I don't waste my time. I'll probably also get a DAC and AMP sometime soon as well, and I won't be spending more than $400 on those.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> So, what are the expectations around here regarding PS VR? Anyone else curious as to whether it will be a hit or miss? Me, personally, the price is too high to take the plunge right away. But once all the kinks are worked out post-launch, and a price falls to maybe 300, I wouldn't mind trying the VR with my 400i over my ears
> 
> Then again, that will about 800 grams of weight on my head between the two... yikes
> 
> Edit that: The PS VR is 600+ grams alone, so about 1000 grams total with my 400i... double yikes



That... Is a lot of weight. Makes me want a pair of 1964 Ears CIEM even more!

Honestly I probably would get the PS VR for myself at launch, if I wasn't trying to save money right now. Early adopters are needed for an industry to take off, and personally I'm enough enamored with VR that a screen-door effect wouldn't bug me too much. Lower fidelity/realism would especially not bother me if I was playing a horror game... DON'T WANT THOSE TOO REAL!! I just would love a 3D sci-fi flight sim (those tend to be easy to render) or something new in a gaming experience, and also a personal screen. The PS VR ended up being LOWER cost than I expected (and much less for the system than a PC meeting specs to run Occulus Rift), basically the same price as another TV (or less than a 3D TV.

Of course, what I'm most excited about is the potential return of 3D audio! Stereo = 1D line, home theater 7.1 = 2D circle, I want to hear and see that 3D sphere for awesome immersion!



yethal said:


> ^This is the reason MLE stopped assigning numerical scores. People just looked for a tl;dr version of the review instead of reading the full thing. So no, I don't imagine scores being added to this review anytime soon.



True, we should avoid scores, because how do we account for priceerformance, how do we set a baseline for a "5" average headphone, and what happens when a 10/10 headphone is bested by something else, eh?

I will say though, the Ether C offers basically nothing to complain about in soundstage. NOTICABLE improvement over the 'dogs and a Sennheiser anything but HD800 (IMO the Ethers are cleaner) and an excellent sense of space and different position. The C actually has slightly less midbass and slightly more sub bass than the open version, and the C seems to extend soundstage a bit more too.


----------



## jincuteguy

How's the C compare to HD800 / HD800S, T1 / T1 2nd?


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> I take scores out and to not compare, and soon after I get asked to compare and give scores.
> 
> I don't think I'll ever win.


 
  
 That's what happens when people just want you to tell them what to buy instead of reading your impressions to let them form an idea of whether or not they would prefer a given model.
  
 Reading and research takes more effort than some people would like.
  


evshrug said:


> Honestly I probably would get the PS VR for myself at launch, if I wasn't trying to save money right now. Early adopters are needed for an industry to take off, and personally I'm enough enamored with VR that a screen-door effect wouldn't bug me too much. Lower fidelity/realism would especially not bother me if I was playing a horror game... DON'T WANT THOSE TOO REAL!! I just would love a 3D sci-fi flight sim (those tend to be easy to render) or something new in a gaming experience, and also a personal screen. The PS VR ended up being LOWER cost than I expected (and much less for the system than a PC meeting specs to run Occulus Rift), basically the same price as another TV (or less than a 3D TV.
> 
> Of course, what I'm most excited about is the potential return of 3D audio! Stereo = 1D line, home theater 7.1 = 2D circle, I want to hear and see that 3D sphere for awesome immersion!


 
  
 The irony for me is that the PSVR is MORE expensive for me than the Rift, simply because I don't already have a PS4 while already owning a PC that's more than capable of handling the Rift and Vive adequately.
  
 Maybe that'll change when it picks up enough exclusives or enhanced-over-PS3 releases.
  
 But hey, Ace Combat 7 and No Man's Sky are just the start, and if they could be bothered to port Elite Dangerous to Xbox One, who's to say it won't get a PS4 port later with full PSVR support? Maybe the genre will stop being so PC-exclusive. Maybe.
  
 Actually, if Sony's paying attention, it's time to dust off the ol' Colony Wars franchise for a PS4 reboot. Hey, if they did it with Warhawk on the PS3, why not?
  
 And yeah, maybe we'll start seeing a greater push for object-based 3D audio on consoles as well with this. Might get the PC devs to give us what we once had again, and not just the VR devs.


----------



## jynxed

My husband made some early YouTube vids showing off alpha footage of elite dangerous, really showed off how natural the head movement is in cockpit play. I am looking forward to trying ED with his vive and Rift to compare the 2 as was one of the few games that was not vomit inducing.


----------



## Shingyboy

Hello, so I have a Creative Sound Blaster ZxR with some AKG K702s, would it improve my setup if I got a amp and a dac? if it would what should I buy? Do they plug into the sound card?


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone knows how to pass SBX surround to the Chord Mojo from a Creative G5 or Creative Z cards? Like the ZxR card?


----------



## KhaledM

mad lust envy said:


> I take scores out and to not compare, and soon after I get asked to compare and give scores.
> 
> I don't think I'll ever win.



I was just asking whether you're going to add one or not, not asking for one, because I know a lot of reviewers hate associating their opinions with numbers.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows how to pass SBX surround to the Chord Mojo from a Creative G5 or Creative Z cards? Like the ZxR card?


 

 There is a "Headphone Surround to Optical/Line Out" checkbox in the Surround tab. Use a Toslink cable and You'll be set.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows how to pass SBX surround to the Chord Mojo from a Creative G5 or Creative Z cards? Like the ZxR card?


 
  
 Connect the SB-ZxR's S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) output to the coaxial or optical input on the Chord Mojo.
 With the CL G5, you can use the optical connection.
  
 Why not just use the SB-ZxR own built in headphone amplifier?


----------



## jincuteguy

purpleangel said:


> Connect the SB-ZxR's S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) output to the coaxial or optical input on the Chord Mojo.
> With the CL G5, you can use the optical connection.
> 
> Why not just use the SB-ZxR own built in headphone amplifier?


 
  
 Because the DAC / Amp on the Mojo is way better, and I just need the SBX surround for gaming 
  
 But isn't the SB ZxR Optical output needs a Decoder to decode the surround sound? otherwise the Optical Out is just 2 channels, not surround


----------



## PurpleAngel

jincuteguy said:


> Because the DAC / Amp on the Mojo is way better, and I just need the SBX surround for gaming
> 
> But isn't the SB ZxR Optical output needs a Decoder to decode the surround sound? otherwise the Optical Out is just 2 channels, not surround


 
  
 The SB-ZxR takes care of the SBX Headphone surround sound processing, before the digital audio is sent out the S/PDIF (optical/coaxial).
 The audio going thru the optical is 2-channel, but it's processed so your ears think you dealing with a 5.1 or 7.1 speaker surround sound.
 As your ears only 2-channel stereo input, it only takes two headphone cups to feed surround sound to your ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

khaledm said:


> I was just asking whether you're going to add one or not, not asking for one, because I know a lot of reviewers hate associating their opinions with numbers.




I've spoken about it and even added a update in the first page. There will be no more scores, ever again. If people are interested in something, they can read the reviews. Pick the price tier you're interested in, and read the reviews. There are final impressions on reviews, which is a shorter 'cheat' sheet as for how good a headphone is, but no more scores, period.


----------



## lenroot77

Ps VR bundles are currently up for pre order!


----------



## headphonesonly

Are the ad500x the as the ad700x?


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> Because the DAC / Amp on the Mojo is way better, and I just need the SBX surround for gaming
> 
> But isn't the SB ZxR Optical output needs a Decoder to decode the surround sound? otherwise the Optical Out is just 2 channels, not surround


 
  
 I can't answer your original question, but I wanted to say that sending a digital DH signal from my computer to the Mojo and then out to a Liquid Carbon makes for an awesome surround gaming setup. If you find a cheap card that can output SBX over optical/coax you'll love it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

headphonesonly said:


> Are the ad500x the as the ad700x?


 
  
 I'm guessing the AD500X have more bass then the AD700X, but the AD700X should equal or better at everything else.


----------



## jincuteguy

axelcloris said:


> I can't answer your original question, but I wanted to say that sending a digital DH signal from my computer to the Mojo and then out to a Liquid Carbon makes for an awesome surround gaming setup. If you find a cheap card that can output SBX over optical/coax you'll love it.


 
  
 Yup just bought the Creative G5, it can output SBX through the Optical out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  So far combine with the Chord Mojo, it's the best gaming setup period, better than the X7 by a mile.
 The only negative thing about the Mojo is that I have to recharge it every 10hour or so.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

in the last 7 days i was doing some amp test with Mixamp and FiiO E11, Fiio E12 Mont Blanc & FiiO E07K, i like more the Mixamp with the Fiio E11,me thinks i found the perfect gaming combo for my Xbox,i was using the HD598,the Fiio E12 Mont Blanc sound pretty good with my ipod and the HD598.
  
 edit: one question in the ipod i have to set the EQ flat or off to use with a fiio amp?


----------



## Imperatore

I am sorry if this is off topic. If I get a DAC and amp with no mixamp, would I set the ps4 audio to linear PCM? I think I read that was the highest quality audio bit I'm still learning so open to educating


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> I am sorry if this is off topic. If I get a DAC and amp with no mixamp, would I set the ps4 audio to linear PCM? I think I read that was the highest quality audio bit I'm still learning so open to educating


 

 Yup, Linear PCM is the unaltered two-channel signal


----------



## l00l

Since I am (still) in the market for an amp to drive my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 ohms and Philips TX2 IEMs for me it comes down to either the Fiio E12 (my preference) or the Schiit Magni 2 (maybe Uber). The amp will be connected mainly to my AVR, maybe Astro Mixamp, to portable devices (iphone etc.) and to my MacBook and used mainly for gaming and movies but should also be enjoyable with music. 

Right now I prefer the E12 route for several reasons: I read it is a good amp and goes well together with my Beyerdynamic headphones, IEMs are not much of a concern for me. The portablity is also a big plus for me since I want to carry it around the house, connect it to different devices. Also I could get the E12 from a local store and really like the looks and size of it. 

For me it simply comes down to the question if the Schiit Magni 2 is THAT much better in terms of sound quality to put all the advantages of the E12 aside and still go for the Magni 2 even tough it would be a hassle to order it and maybe return it, if necessary. If they are somewhat on a level playing field I will get the E12, even tough from what I understand the Magni 2 is the better amp. 

Any help on this would be much appreciated


----------



## Evshrug

ni6htwalker said:


> edit: one question in the ipod i have to set the EQ flat or off to use with a fiio amp?



I just turn the iPod's EQ off. Unless I want to use an EQ preset.


----------



## Ni6htWalker

evshrug said:


> I just turn the iPod's EQ off. Unless I want to use an EQ preset.


 
 ahh ok!!


----------



## Ni6htWalker

l00l said:


> Since I am (still) in the market for an amp to drive my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 ohms and Philips TX2 IEMs for me it comes down to either the Fiio E12 (my preference) or the Schiit Magni 2 (maybe Uber). The amp will be connected mainly to my AVR, maybe Astro Mixamp, to portable devices (iphone etc.) and to my MacBook and used mainly for gaming and movies but should also be enjoyable with music.
> 
> Right now I prefer the E12 route for several reasons: I read it is a good amp and goes well together with my Beyerdynamic headphones, IEMs are not much of a concern for me. The portablity is also a big plus for me since I want to carry it around the house, connect it to different devices. Also I could get the E12 from a local store and really like the looks and size of it.
> 
> ...


 

 right now im very happy with this combo Mixamp/E11 plus HD598,i didnt like the sound of the E12 with the mixamp and HD598,i would like to try the Schiit Magni 2 with the Mixamp,maybe next month i`ll buy the Schiit Magni 2,but first i want to buy the Fidelio X2.


----------



## PurpleAngel

imperatore said:


> I am sorry if this is off topic. If I get a DAC and amp with no mixamp, would I set the ps4 audio to linear PCM? I think I read that was the highest quality audio bit I'm still learning so open to educating


 
 Is this an optical input DAC or USB input DAC?
  
 If an optical DAC
 Assuming that DAC you get is not designed to work with DDL (Dolby Digital Live),
 (DDL is need to be able to send and receive more then 2-channels of digital audio thru optical)
 You would not even be able to use the PS4's Dolby ((DDL), for headphone surround sound.
 So you would have to leave the PS4's audio to PCM and I would assume also set to 2-channel output.
 For USB, setting would be the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

headphonesonly said:


> Are the ad500x the as the ad700x?




Why would Audio technica sell the same headphone twice, at different price ranges? No, they are not the same. They may look identical, but drivers are likely the reason why the AD500X is cheaper.

If the AD500 were the same as the AD700, audiophile gamers everywhere would've been talking about it for years now.


----------



## Imperatore

purpleangel said:


> Is this an optical input DAC or USB input DAC?
> 
> If an optical DAC
> Assuming that DAC you get is not designed to work with DDL (Dolby Digital Live),
> ...


 
  
 Modi 2 Uber so optical   It will be interesting to hear hte differnece between the Astro surround and stereo through the DAC.


----------



## bule1101

Hy Guys,
  
 This is my first post here and i would like to thank everyone in advance for the help.
 This is also a question about a PC Setup and not a console so i hope thats OK.
  
 Well; I wanted to buy a Schiit Modi 2 and Vali 2 to power my Headset. I will only use it for gaming, i Play MOBAs on a regular Basis, many hours every day. I wanted to pair the Schiit stack with either a AKG 701, or AT 700x or perhaps a X2.
  
 How would i get the Micophone to work thru the Schiit stack, or would i have to conect it seperatley to the pc?
 If i only have a usb Input into the dac, will i be able to use my surround Sound from the on board Sound Card? I just bought the pc so it has the new G1 Motherboard with the Recon3D Software. What would i have to do to get surround Sound?
  
 I really like the look of the Vali 2, i would like to try that tube amp, but i would be willing to conect it to a different DAC if it means ist easier to get the surround Sound and microphone Input.
  
 Thanks a lot for your help


----------



## briansun1

bule1101 said:


> Hy Guys,
> 
> This is my first post here and i would like to thank everyone in advance for the help.
> This is also a question about a PC Setup and not a console so i hope thats OK.
> ...


 
 You would plug the Microphone directly into the computer.


----------



## l00l

l00l said:


> Since I am (still) in the market for an amp to drive my Beyerdynamic DT990 pro 250 ohms and Philips TX2 IEMs for me it comes down to either the Fiio E12 (my preference) or the Schiit Magni 2 (maybe Uber). The amp will be connected mainly to my AVR, maybe Astro Mixamp, to portable devices (iphone etc.) and to my MacBook and used mainly for gaming and movies but should also be enjoyable with music.
> 
> Right now I prefer the E12 route for several reasons: I read it is a good amp and goes well together with my Beyerdynamic headphones, IEMs are not much of a concern for me. The portablity is also a big plus for me since I want to carry it around the house, connect it to different devices. Also I could get the E12 from a local store and really like the looks and size of it.
> 
> ...




Any ideas on this? thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

bule1101 said:


> Hy Guys,
> 
> This is my first post here and i would like to thank everyone in advance for the help.
> This is also a question about a PC Setup and not a console so i hope thats OK.
> ...


 
  
 You would plug the mic into the on-board audio's line-input (mic) jack, wither you were using the external DAC (Modi) or not.
 If you connecting the computer to the DAC, using USB, the sound card features are bypassed.
 An optical input DAC would work with the on-board sound card and the Recon3D software.


----------



## HiCZoK

I really really like Koss porta pro. Actually even sold my brainwavz hm5 because I like how light, comfortable and bassy koss are!
  
 I was just scouting the sub 100$ market and the JAM! got my attention thanks to Your review ML. I did had some creative products before and they were always good. Like CAL!(which I sold because they did not had enough bass and headband was hurting top of my big head) and still have speakers from 2001 (!!!) which they produced with colaboration with cambridge (DT2200 but using as 2.1)
  
 I don't really need new headphones over koss porta pro but I like to know the options. KSC75 is also very interesting but I dont like clip on design all that much i think and some say that 75's have less bass than porta pro.
 Creative also has Outlier, wp headphones and Hitz which all looks interesting.
 From similar on-ear design, I've tried skullcandy navigator which were too small and didnt fit my head and koss sp330 which are fantastic but too expensive and the headband bends a little much and it looks weak on the extending spots considering the asking price.


----------



## spania

First off I want to thank Mad Lust Envy and the Nameless for both their magnificent guides. Reading them was an eye opening experience.
 Here's my problem, after the reading and doing research on similar scenarios I couldn't really find any situation like mine, and I would love to hear the advice from the guys in the forum. so here is my case:
  
*Computer hardware*
 mini-ITX motherboard. Sadly, this means only one PCI slot—populated with the graphics card—so I think I’m stuck with usb options for sound.
 I use this computer exclusively for gaming. I play fps mostly (Rainbow 6 siege, Battlefield, CS GO, Overwatch soon..)
 I play games 60% of the time competitively and 40 casual. So positional audio is very important for me.
 I have been using a X-FI Go Pro as my sound card, but I don’t like it much ( I have all SBX options disabled as I find that the headphones do a better job at giving positioning with them off).
  
*Headphones *
 ULTRASOUND PRO 900 with S-Logic Natural Surround Sound Plus
 I use them during commute and at the office (with Fiio e11) and for gaming.
 These were one of the best choices for my needs from madlust’s guide, and after reading that these cans were killer with dolby headphone I just bought them.
  
*Amp+Dac+Surround device (need advice here)*
 I don’t know what should I buy here. My budget goes from $100 to $250.
 Should I forget about things like dolby headphone and just stick to an amp-dac and let the s-logic do the work? Will that be enough?
 Or would it be better to throw in a dolby headphone device too? Maybe the Astro Mixamp pro (found on eBay for around $60)
 What do you think of SMSL SD793-II PCM1793 DIR9001 + Astro Mixamp pro for $130? 
  
 Any other thoughts or recommendations would be much appreciated.
  
 Thanks in advance!


----------



## martin vegas

Sorry I just glimpsed through your post i didn't know you already had headphones!


----------



## Imperatore

Well, the X2's came down so I have just purchased those, still waiting for my DT770's so I can compare the two when they arrive.  Hopefully either of those are as comfortable as the K712's which I could barely feel on my head.  Also, I got a 2013 mixamp as I heard some comparissons and the TR one seems to have a really strong echo/reverb in comparisson and I must agree I thought this when playing the division.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Spania, if you turn off SBX because you think stereo gives you better positional cues, then you're not gonna like Dolby Headphone either. Also, did you make sure, that you confugured 5 speakers (or 7) in the sound devuces option? They're stereo by default, so if you turned on SBX without changing the speakers to 5/7, that's why you're not getting any benefits in SBX.



IT NEEDS TO BE 5 SPEAKERS OR MORE, OR SBX, DOLBY HEADPHONE, ETC WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY.

Also changing the bitrate to something higher than the default (which is usually 16bit/44khz).

Most devices you buy go 24bit/96khz, though with the 5 speaker option, that may be disabled and only allowed up to 24bit/48khz.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Spania, if you turn off SBX because you think stereo gives you better positional cues, then you're not gonna like Dolby Headphone either. Also, did you make sure, that you confugured 5 speakers (or 7) in the sound devuces option? They're stereo by default, so if you turned on SBX without changing the speakers to 5/7, that's why you're not getting any benefits in SBX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 What happened to your X7? Why are you using 3D Recon?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm at work. The Recon 3Di is built in to my laptop. Can't go lugging around an X7.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> I'm at work. The Recon 3Di is built in to my laptop. Can't go lugging around an X7.



Does it have the same SBX capabilities as the regular Recon? If yes, does it have an optical output?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Mine uses THX Tru Studio. Similar enough to SBX, though it was pre-SBX inception. The optical out doesn't pass anything but stereo. I bought this laptop 3 years ago. Just started showing its age, game wise a few month ago. Now I'm missing my M key, lol, though I can obviously still press the nub down, and get my Ms.

Once I replace it, I'm gonna miss that HDMI input, which no other laptops have (other than the same gen M18X R2). Alienware ditched HDMI inputs with the more recent ones, which I think is a mistake.

Perhaps now that external GPUs like the Razer Core are gonna be more of a thing now for laptops, companies will add video inputs on laptops, since eGPUs function better when they don't have to render back to the laptop screen in the same thunderbolt 3 pipeline.

I hate dreading the day this laptop dies. Even if I stopped using it as a daily driver, I could still benefit from the HDMI input on the go for external devices, even if I did have another computer or whatnot.

The screen is a bit mediocre on pixel response time blur though. I want a backlight scanning/black frame insertion/ULMB screen though.


----------



## Darkangelpt

is there any updates on creative e 5?
 or in any dts x amp for consoles.?


----------



## spania

mad lust envy said:


> Spania, if you turn off SBX because you think stereo gives you better positional cues, then you're not gonna like Dolby Headphone either. Also, did you make sure, that you confugured 5 speakers (or 7) in the sound devuces option? They're stereo by default, so if you turned on SBX without changing the speakers to 5/7, that's why you're not getting any benefits in SBX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for the thoughtful reply, after changing the bitrate the positional cues were more accurate with SBX Surround enabled than with stereo, and I found the experience more immersive and enjoyable.
 I would still like to try 5.1 surround with my Pro 900 cans. Unfortunately for me, the X-FI Go! Pro does not give you the option of a speaker config higher than 2.1 so I think I'm gonna get rid of it and get something else.
  
 Im considering *Sound BlasterX G5* and getting an amp later (would I need one?)
 Or getting a *Omni 5.1* + *DAC/amp* combo. Any recommendations for amp/dac?
  
 For the record, I don't listen to music on this setup. I exclusively play games.
 What do you think? I'm open to any recommendations. My *budget* is *$250* max atm.
 Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Only for games? Buy a cheap external usb one like the Xonar U3 which can feed a Dolby headphone digitally to a decent desktop dac/amp. Talking $20 for the U3, and whatever dac/amp you want with it (maybe a Modi 2/Magni 2?).

The beauty of the U3 is that it's sending just a digital signal, so you can gain all the benefit from your better optical dac and amp. Maybe a Modi 2 (optical) and Magni 2?

That's he Dolby headphone option. I know there is an SBX one that does the same, but I dunno which.

I dunno of any optical dacs that are cheaper except the older Fiio E17, I guess.


----------



## Yethal

Used optical Modi can be had for 50$ on eBay.
  
 Edit: Came across this:


 The genius of this solution is overwhelming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I will have one Philips Dolby Headphone device up for sale soon as I am getting another model of Philips (same performance). Prefer to ship around Europe though. It's unmodded.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> I will have one Philips Dolby Headphone device up for sale soon as I am getting another model of Philips (same performance). Prefer to ship around Europe though. It's unmodded.


 

 Could You post a link to the specs/ product page?


----------



## Fegefeuer

here you go
  
 http://download.p4c.philips.com/files/s/sbchd1500u_05/sbchd1500u_05_dfu_eng.pdf
  
  
 basically:
  
 2 headphone outputs
 DTS and Dolby Digital support
 Dolby Pro Logic
 Dolby Headphone Room 1,2,3
 Night Mode 
 etc.
  
 the version I am selling has coax inputs and outputs only though so you need to convert them. I have one converter that is working fine and ensures that DTS/AC3 is unharmed. 
  
 with a few skills you can install a HPA inside there and even line outs that pass the DHP through. I will have one modded as I am not fit enough to do it myself but it's not cheap as the amp parts are around 180€ together. Better do it right and do it only one time.


----------



## Yethal

Interesting device. Could the same line-out mod be applied to other virtual surround devices?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Technically yes. You could always split the analog signal that goes to the headphone amp part to a line out. 
  
 Like here: 
  


  
  
  
 stuff like X7 would just need a firmware though so the SB-Axx1 can do its damn job.


----------



## saifulmy

I listen music from spotify using ad700. 1st i connect directly to my laptop then switch using ps4->mixamp and suddenly the sound is totally different. so are spotify used in ps4 using different quality or because i used mixamp?


----------



## Yethal

saifulmy said:


> I listen music from spotify using ad700. 1st i connect directly to my laptop then switch using ps4->mixamp and suddenly the sound is totally different. so are spotify used in ps4 using different quality or because i used mixamp?


 

 Unless You have Premium bought on the laptop and not PS4 (or vice versa), it is much more probable that sound quality between Your builtin soundcard and Mixamp is the reason.


----------



## PurpleAngel

saifulmy said:


> I listen music from Spotify using ad700. 1st i connect directly to my laptop then switch using ps4->Mix-amp and suddenly the sound is totally different. so are Spotify used in ps4 using different quality or because i used mix-amp?


 
  
 "Totally different" does not really tell us which sounds better to you.
  
 Also the PS4 has more multiable options in the audio settings, which might effect audio.


----------



## Imperatore

After extensive research, debates with myself and a lot of procrastination, I ended up buying some K7XX Red Edition, I feel this was a  total impusle buy and will look to move them on, they are brand new from the first batch.   To cut a long story short, I checked Amazon WH deals this morning and got some Fidelio X2 for £126/$178, just a damaged box, unused phones.  Very happy with this, I don't think I'll bother keeping my Magni now as I'm not an audiophile and will likely not notice the difference.
 I also settled for the 2013 MixAmp over the TR.
  
 I read somewhere about the quality of the V-Moda BoomPro cable degrading audio on these phones, but I suspect this again is something I will not notice but others would.
  
 I wasn't that impressed with the DT770, they made my ears really hot and I think I prefer open phones.


----------



## Change is Good

Thought I should share this quote...
  


marts30 said:


> Yeah, just sold my X2 and K7XX in favour of this.


 
  
 You guys need to stop sleeping on the 9500 lol


----------



## Imperatore

change is good said:


> Thought I should share this quote...
> 
> 
> You guys need to stop sleeping on the 9500 lol


 
  
 Sorry you'll have to explain that one to me.


----------



## AxelCloris

imperatore said:


> Sorry you'll have to explain that one to me.


 
  
 The quote came from the SHP9500 thread. Basically someone sold their other headphones and went with the less expensive model.


----------



## kashim

if i upgrade from akg k612 to ad700x only for fps competitive games can i have better soundstage and positional audio?if yes how much?


----------



## Ni6htWalker

kashim said:


> if i upgrade from akg k612 to ad700x only for fps competitive games can i have better soundstage and positional audio?if yes how much?


 
 i havent test the akg 612 but the ad700x are perfect for fps games.


----------



## Change is Good

It'll be more of a side-grade, really. Just keep what you have and save until you are _really_ ready for an upgrade.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Apples to a slightly different apple. A waste of money. Either keep the K612, or save up for something bigger and better.

We are talking about a game of subtleties. Just because you go from a K612 to an AD700x or HD800 doesn't mean that aoll the sudden you're gonna hear something you've never heard in the game. Headphones are about refinement, not all the sudden hearing things in a game that were non-existent before (unless you had a very veiled, undetailed headphone).

I can hear the same footsteps, the same sound effects from the same positions out of a $100 headphone compared to a $1500 one.

The K612 is a fine competitive headphone. Unless something is truly bothering you about them, there is no need to change them if all you want is a competitive headphone.


----------



## jincuteguy

change is good said:


> Thought I should share this quote...
> 
> 
> You guys need to stop sleeping on the 9500 lol


 
 Are there anyone using CIEM or IEM for gaming in here? I see e veryone is using Headphones for gaming.


----------



## CPTredsox

Hi. I already got the x2 and the dt 880. Does it get any better, i mean by a lot for Gaming with the HD 598 or dt 990? And Sound quality wise, from what ive read so far i think both would be a step down from my cans, is that the case? 

And is anyone gaming with the ath msr7? Hows the soundstage and positional accuracy for gaming for a closed headphone?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those are very good headphones. If you're looking at your price range, forget getting anything., You'll just be side grading all day. If you want improvements, prepare to pay double or more before it starts making any real difference.

And again, we're talking REFINEMENT, and not something that is twice as good.


----------



## gsmatt

cptredsox said:


> Hi. I already got the x2 and the dt 880. Does it get any better, i mean by a lot for Gaming with the HD 598 or dt 990? And Sound quality wise, from what ive read so far i think both would be a step down from my cans, is that the case?
> 
> And is anyone gaming with the ath msr7? Hows the soundstage and positional accuracy for gaming for a closed headphone?


 
As far as the mdrz7's, they are as good as the akg q701 when it comes to directional cues and the soundstage is as good too with it being very fun to use. I was sceptical to get them at first since there's not a lot of gaming feedback online but it's the best I've tried.


----------



## Evshrug

Good to hear about the Sony, the only other impression I heard was Fegfeuer's on those MDR-Z7. I heard them myself at RMAF, at the Sony booth and Kimber Cable booth... and I cannot remember anything descriptive about them other than black, around ears, different sound than the MA900, and that they are not the Audio Technica ATH-MSR7 headphones that CPTredsox was asking about.


----------



## gsmatt

Sorry, some of the model numbers start looking the same after a while lol. I haven't heard any audio technica headphones unfortunately.


----------



## Luckbad

Hey fellas! Not sure how many of you have heard of the Taction Kannons, but you owe it to yourself to at least take a look at their Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2053327139/kannon-headphones-accurate-bass-you-can-feel
  
 I got to try them out overnight a few months ago and they're absolutely epic for gaming. I loved using them with Overwatch--it feels like you're cheating because you react even faster when you can feel the direction bullets are coming from.
  
 Note that I have no affiliation with these guys, I'm just a big fanboy after getting to try them out and I want to see them succeed so I can get some myself!


----------



## headphonesonly

luckbad said:


> Hey fellas! Not sure how many of you have heard of the Taction Kannons, but you owe it to yourself to at least take a look at their Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2053327139/kannon-headphones-accurate-bass-you-can-feel
> 
> I got to try them out overnight a few months ago and they're absolutely epic for gaming. I loved using them with Overwatch--it feels like you're cheating because you react even faster when you can feel the direction bullets are coming from.
> 
> Note that I have no affiliation with these guys, I'm just a big fanboy after getting to try them out and I want to see them succeed so I can get some myself!


I think the Sony pulse elites do the same thing.


----------



## Luckbad

headphonesonly said:


> I think the Sony pulse elites do the same thing.


 
  
 I tried them. There's a reason I don't have them anymore but dropped $299 on a Kickstarter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pulse, and Skullcandy Crusher have bass transducers like that. It's a nifty gimmick, but overall, it's just that a gimmick that doesn't help gaming in any way. I liked the Crusher. Just wouldn't use them for gaming as the vibration started getting annoying.

Get a planarmagnetic and eq bass. You'll get all the sub-30hz rumble you want. HE-400 is fantastic for that, as is the older LCD2.


----------



## Luckbad

mad lust envy said:


> Pulse, and Skullcandy Crusher have bass transducers like that. It's a nifty gimmick, but overall, it's just that a gimmick that doesn't help gaming in any way. I liked the Crusher. Just wouldn't use them for gaming as the vibration started getting annoying.
> 
> Get a planarmagnetic and eq bass. You'll get all the sub-30hz rumble you want. HE-400 is fantastic for that, as is the older LCD2.




I've tried all of those. The Kannon is legit.

I'm a pretty serious gamer as well being a game designer at Blizzard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So you've gone and used the older HE400 and LCD2, EQ-ed bass and tested next to the Kannon? Because I'm doubting this.

Bass isn't all the sudden going to give you an advantage in any shape or form. It adds to immersion, not much more. As long as a headphone has an audible tone for bass down to whatever depths you think are important, 'feeling' it doesn't add anything. Planars are fantastic in that they are ruler flat down to the very bottom depths of sound (particularly the older planars).


----------



## imac2much

Hey MLE, earlier you recommended a Xonst U3 to send a digital signal with Dolby Surround to an external DAC. I'm using an Oppo HA1 right now and also considering a discrete way of sending a digital signal with surround to it. Do you believe the U3 is the best option or is there something better at a higher price point? I thought I recalled some people saying SBX is better than Dolby Surround but I might be mistaken. 

I'm currently using Razer Surround's software to send a surround signal to the Oppo HA1 via USB. Would the Xonar U3 or something else be a noticeable improvement? Thanks!


----------



## Luckbad

mad lust envy said:


> So you've gone and used the older HE400 and LCD2, EQ-ed bass and tested next to the Kannon? Because I'm doubting this.


 
  
 I have not compared them head to head. I have, however, spent hundreds--perhaps thousands--of hours testing bass-worthy headphones and I'm very adept as using EQ to find the potential of headphones. If you're familiar with the JVC HA-SZ2000, the Taction Kannons are on the same playing field in physical vibration but don't need the crazy volume or EQ the JVCs do.
  


> Bass isn't all the sudden going to give you an advantage in any shape or form. It adds to immersion, not much more. As long as a headphone has an audible tone for bass down to whatever depths you think are important, 'feeling' it doesn't add anything. Planars are fantastic in that they are ruler flat down to the very bottom depths of sound (particularly the older planars).


 
  
 That is fair. Soundstage and being able to hear footsteps clearly actually does more for improving awareness in games. The physical vibration (not the bass itself) does, however, improve my own reaction time to bullets (we react faster to physical stimulus than auditory). The Taction tech is very accurate and positional in how it works. You have to feel it to believe it. If the Kickstarter succeeds, I'll send them to you for an audition.
  
 Planars are indeed very good at reproducing audible bass. 
  
 Even more interesting than the first Kannons for gaming are the open variant that I also got to try. They were Audio-Technica AD700x headphones with the Taction driver, so you got the incredible positional audio _and _the physical bass. If the Kickstarter succeeds, hopefully they do the open version.
  
 These first Kannons are some sort of custom tuned OEM version of the M50 or M50x driver. I haven't been able to confirm for sure, though. The prototype I heard was definitely a tuned M50(x) driver, but it's possible production units are going to be different.


----------



## Holmesy321

So I'm in the market for some new headphones. Primarily for music, but I'll also use them for gaming, to replace the HD380Pro's I currently use (which are "okay").
  
  
 Being primarily for music (listening and production) I want them to be reasonably fun to listen to, but not too V shaped (I enjoy the sound of the DT770, for instance, but the treble tires me after a while). The HD380's I find to be generally nice, but I wan't something open-backed after listening to my housemates HD600's.
  
 Looking up to maybe £250 at most. Preferably not more than £200.
  
 Also I should add that I don't currently have Dolby SS, I've always played FPS stereo (for about 12 years) and it's what I'm used to. But I'm thinking about giving it a go...
  
 I've narrowed down to the following (which are basically ones that scored pretty good on here, and also have pretty good reps in hi-fi reviews):
  
  
  - BeyerDynamic DT990 Premium (250 Ohm) - These seem popular. But I'm not sure if the treble will be too much for me, if I felt that way about the DT770's?
  
 - Philips Fidelio X2 - This would've been my go to if it wasn't for the current quality control issues etc that have put me off buying them...
  
 - Hifiman HE400S - By all accounts these are very good for music, but maybe not so much for gaming. Has anyone used them? I'm particularly drawn to them being planar magnetic and working on both my phone, and audio interfaces (with higher impedances).
  
 - AKG K712 - I've never really listened to any of the AKG open-back headphones, I gather they're quite clinical. These are the bassier of the bunch (correct me if I'm wrong). MLE gives them a good review here, but will I enjoy listening to music on them too?
  
  

 Any comments, particularly on the HE400S. I'm leaning towards either that or the DT990. The K712's are a bit of a wildcard.
  
 Open to other suggestions!


----------



## Yethal

I've tried the Skullcandy Krusher twice. I don't know if it's bone conduction effect, or the driver or simply my delusions but it sounded as if the vibrations were drowning the rest of the sound out.


holmesy321 said:


> So I'm in the market for some new headphones. Primarily for music, but I'll also use them for gaming, to replace the HD380Pro's I currently use (which are "okay").
> 
> (...)


 
 Stuff like that is easier if You give us Your budget.


----------



## Holmesy321

yethal said:


> Stuff like that is easier if You give us Your budget.


 
 Ah of course. 
  
 Around £200-£250 at most I expect. 
  
 Also, and edited my original post to say, I don't currently play with Dolby SS, but I'm thinking about giving a Mixamp a go. So any savings will go towards that, but I'd prioritise having good headphones over it (because they're for music too).


----------



## lenroot77

holmesy321 said:


> So I'm in the market for some new headphones. Primarily for music, but I'll also use them for gaming, to replace the HD380Pro's I currently use (which are "okay").
> 
> 
> Being primarily for music (listening and production) I want them to be reasonably fun to listen to, but not too V shaped (I enjoy the sound of the DT770, for instance, but the treble tires me after a while). The HD380's I find to be generally nice, but I wan't something open-backed after listening to my housemates HD600's.
> ...




I think your best bet is to buy a used pair of the X2's on the classifieds here at headfi.
Most of your quality concerns will be on the original buyer and they will sound good off your phone. Not to mention you may save a few bucks....oh yeah easy to add a mic too.

If u didn't like the dt770 treble, you for sure won't like the 990's. If you are concerned about bass on the k712's for music there probably won't be enough. And while the Hifiman 400S are great sounding headphones you may find the soundstage and positioning lacking. 

Just my 2 cents


----------



## Miriam-Kay

The images of the connection diagrams are way too small to read, and it's not possible to enlarge by clicking on them.


----------



## Yethal

miriam-kay said:


> The images of the connection diagrams are way too small to read, and it's not possible to enlarge by clicking on them.


 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


 Now You should be able to enlarge them.


----------



## Miriam-Kay

Thanks!


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

In your general price range, I'll have to say that X2s are probably your best bet, or maybe a pair of K7XXs. 

Personally, I would say save up for the K712s if bass isn't an issue.



holmesy321 said:


> So I'm in the market for some new headphones. Primarily for music, but I'll also use them for gaming, to replace the HD380Pro's I currently use (which are "okay").
> 
> 
> Being primarily for music (listening and production) I want them to be reasonably fun to listen to, but not too V shaped (I enjoy the sound of the DT770, for instance, but the treble tires me after a while). The HD380's I find to be generally nice, but I wan't something open-backed after listening to my housemates HD600's.
> ...


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> Hey MLE, earlier you recommended a Xonst U3 to send a digital signal with Dolby Surround to an external DAC. I'm using an Oppo HA1 right now and also considering a discrete way of sending a digital signal with surround to it. Do you believe the U3 is the best option or is there something better at a higher price point? I thought I recalled some people saying SBX is better than Dolby Surround but I might be mistaken.
> 
> I'm currently using Razer Surround's software to send a surround signal to the Oppo HA1 via USB. Would the Xonar U3 or something else be a noticeable improvement? Thanks!




Hey imac2much,
Using the optical output of the Xonar U3, or optical out of any other device, basically means you aren't using much but the processing... and Dolby Headphone processing is identical no matter what hardware you use (so long as you're using mode 2, which is the only option for Mixamp and DSS). So, paying more than the U3 if Dolby Headphone is what you want, won't net you any improvement.

I'm the guy (or one of the earlier guys) who prefers SBX processing. So, I'd probably get Creative's Omni, though right now I use the X7. A lot a lot. You know, I like Dolby Headphone too, but for my taste I prefer SBX for less reverb and more crisp notes/sounds. Mad Lust's ears hear deeper distance rear cues so he likes that, and the reverb doesn't bother him. Nameless PFG best likes CMSS3D! In the end, I theorize that we all hear a bit differently, and will prefer different things.

That said, I bet DH or SBX would both be on a higher technical level than Razer surround. Razer gives you a taste of virtual surround, but it's not even or refined and has funny holes in the imaging... at least the launch version. It's entirely possible they improved.

Ultimate headphone surround = Smyth Realizer. That thing is an all-in-one, with HDMI and other inputs, head-tracking for basically Audio VR, a great DAC, amp, and other goodies. You actually calibrate it when you buy by going to a theater (or something) and have Smyth techs put a mic in your ear, and they record how YOUR ear hears sounds coming from different angles and make that be the algorithm for changing surround content. Hyper realistic. And pretty well over $1k I think


----------



## Evshrug

luckbad said:


> I have not compared them head to head. I have, however, spent hundreds--perhaps thousands--of hours testing bass-worthy headphones and I'm very adept as using EQ to find the potential of headphones. If you're familiar with the JVC HA-SZ2000, the Taction Kannons are on the same playing field in physical vibration but don't need the crazy volume or EQ the JVCs do.
> 
> 
> That is fair. Soundstage and being able to hear footsteps clearly actually does more for improving awareness in games. The physical vibration (not the bass itself) does, however, improve my own reaction time to bullets (we react faster to physical stimulus than auditory). The Taction tech is very accurate and positional in how it works. You have to feel it to believe it. If the Kickstarter succeeds, I'll send them to you for an audition.
> ...




It's easy to get thousands of hours listening to different bassy headphones. 
Well, not really, I get headaches sometimes. But yeah, it follows that if a grenade sound effect goes "BOOM!" and makes you instinctively react to that because you physically felt your eardrums die a bit, then you're already reacting to that and unable to also hear the guy running up to shoot you. It fills your auditory attention.

I do think it's cool that there is a market for companies to try out new things and explore audio. This could turn out to be big or bust, but at least ideas are being had and tried. I do agree with Mad that this particular feature is not tactical and not for me, but someone might like the tactile sensation for pure subjective enjoyment.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evs, you or anyone know what is the SBX equivalent to the U3 that send the dsp through its optical out? I'd have mentioned it, but since I don't know what devices they are, I default to saying the U3 for DH, and similar devices for SBX or CMSS-3D.

I assume for SBX it's the X-fi GO, but not sure it transmits SBX through the optical, or if it even has an optical out to begin with.

As for the Kannon.... if it uses a modified M50 driver... that is already a bad sign for gaming in virtual surround. The M50's soundstage is mediocre at best. Already starting off bad.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Ultimate headphone surround = Smyth Realizer. That thing is an all-in-one, with HDMI and other inputs, head-tracking for basically Audio VR, a great DAC, amp, and other goodies. You actually calibrate it when you buy by going to a theater (or something) and have Smyth techs put a mic in your ear, and they record how YOUR ear hears sounds coming from different angles and make that be the algorithm for changing surround content. Hyper realistic. And pretty well over $1k I think


 
 Darin Fong's Out-Of-Your-Head gaming preset achieves very similar results and it's a software solution. However, unlike Razer Surround, it's really great. Here, try it out:
 https://fongaudio.com/


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> As for the Kannon.... if it uses a modified M50 driver... that is already a bad sign for gaming in virtual surround. The M50's soundstage is mediocre at best. Already starting off bad.




I had the same skepticism about the headphones as a whole. The price is an even bigger turn off.


----------



## Holmesy321

lenroot77 said:


> I think your best bet is to buy a used pair of the X2's on the classifieds here at headfi.
> Most of your quality concerns will be on the original buyer and they will sound good off your phone. Not to mention you may save a few bucks....oh yeah easy to add a mic too.
> 
> If u didn't like the dt770 treble, you for sure won't like the 990's. If you are concerned about bass on the k712's for music there probably won't be enough. And while the Hifiman 400S are great sounding headphones you may find the soundstage and positioning lacking.
> ...


 
  
 These were my exact thoughts... 
  
 I'm not all that keen on getting a second hand set (and I'd be waiting ages for one to come up). They're currently on Amazon for £165, which is very cheap. Not sure whether to take the plunge and see if I get a good set or not...
  
  


monsieurniceguy said:


> In your general price range, I'll have to say that X2s are probably your best bet, or maybe a pair of K7XXs.
> 
> Personally, I would say save up for the K712s if bass isn't an issue.


 
  
 Yeah, I might see if I can have a listen to the K712's somewhere, just to see if the lack of bass would be a problem for me...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

K712 isn't bass light by any means. Unless you want to be a basshead, K712 has good bass.


----------



## Holmesy321

mad lust envy said:


> K712 isn't bass light by any means. Unless you want to be a basshead, K712 has good bass.


 
 Well then, I guess I'll have to give them a try... Alongside the HE400S I guess.
  
 I have the same fear of fatiguing treble with the HE400S as I do the 990 though, that coupled with worse imaging and I'm not sure they'll be what I'm after.
  
  
 Would you also reiterate that the X2's would be the perfect choice?


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Darin Fong's Out-Of-Your-Head gaming preset achieves very similar results and it's a software solution. However, unlike Razer Surround, it's really great. Here, try it out:
> https://fongaudio.com/



I may have to give it a second try. FWIR, it mostly just works with prerecorded material? So not gaming? And, this might just be me, but headphone surround doesn't work as well for me when I'm not a participant character, movies have most of their sounds coming from in front it seems. Darin Fong did seem to put a lot of effort into his work though.

Thanks for the link and suggestion!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> I may have to give it a second try. FWIR, it mostly just works with prerecorded material? So not gaming? And, this might just be me, but headphone surround doesn't work as well for me when I'm not a participant character, movies have most of their sounds coming from in front it seems. Darin Fong did seem to put a lot of effort into his work though.
> 
> Thanks for the link and suggestion!


 

 Nah, there is a low latency gaming preset available. I've been in the beta program some time ago. Just give it a try.


----------



## Evshrug

Well sure! Overwatch coming out soon and stuff, seems like some of my friends want to play on PC (tho I'd prefer to get it for PS4)


----------



## Imperatore

Can you do that bass mod thing with the K712? I know you can with the K7XX but they haven't arrived yet so can't compare to K712.


----------



## Evshrug

Did you listen to the K7XX yet? It's not a bass-deficient headphone! It is in fact a little boosted over neutral, as supported by frequency charts and listening. Not as exaggerated as a basshead can, but I think you're more worried than you should be.


----------



## Imperatore

No they are still enroute from USA. They are first edition Red if that makes any difference although I'd presume they are all the same. The K712 is the most comfortable headphone I've ever used.


----------



## AxelCloris

imperatore said:


> No they are still enroute from USA. They are first edition Red if that makes any difference although I'd presume they are all the same. The K712 is the most comfortable headphone I've ever used.


 
  
 The only difference is that the red color makes it go faster. The K7XX black and red will sound the same.


----------



## Imperatore

Ah ok. I guess I need to decide if I devalue them by opening or just trust that my K712 are pretty much the same.


----------



## inseconds99

Want to purchase a K7xx, does anyone still make an adapter so I can use my boom pro mic with it?


----------



## AxelCloris

inseconds99 said:


> Want to purchase a K7xx, does anyone still make an adapter so I can use my boom pro mic with it?


 

 Here ya go.
  
 https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Darin Fong's Out-Of-Your-Head gaming preset achieves very similar results and it's a software solution. However, unlike Razer Surround, it's really great. Here, try it out:
> https://fongaudio.com/


 
 Hm... that's interesting, never heard about Out Of Your Head software.  Is it better than SBX surround and Doldby Headphone? anyone tried it out? $150 for just the software?
  
 Downloaded the Darin Fong software to try out the trial, but ccan't get it to work.


----------



## Forty0z

axelcloris said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter




Oh wow I didn't know that someone made the adapter. 

Now I'm really going to consider the k7xx


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Hm... that's interesting, never heard about Out Of Your Head software.  Is it better than SBX surround and Doldby Headphone? anyone tried it out? $150 for just the software?
> 
> Downloaded the Darin Fong software to try out the trial, but ccan't get it to work.


 

 OOYH is something else entirely. I recommend listening to their example videos.


----------



## DarkSilV

Guys any recommendations for gaming(action/RPG) and movies/anime
I am using turtle beach elite 800 at the moment , I have never really tried something of like of these two
  
it came down to these two or If you guys have something better
AKG K712 Pro which cost $ 240 or
Fostex Massdrop TH-X00 Purpleheart Headphones  $450


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

My personal preference is the K712 but you're going to need an amp to get the best out of them. From what I've read, as I have no experience with the TH-X00, they do sound better with an amp but they have a relatively low impedance so you can run them easier.

 If you want a more neutral signature then go K712, If you want more bass then go TH-X00.
  
 It also depends on your listening environment, if you you're going to be listening in a space where theres a lot of external noise, then maybe K712, which is open, might not be the best idea. The TH-X00 will give you a lot better isolation.  
  
 Quote:


darksilv said:


>


----------



## DarkSilV

monsieurniceguy said:


>


 
My listening environment will be my room which will definitely have air conditioning running depending on time of the year ,so Is this considered noise which will effect K712 greatly?
  
I have SOUND BLASTER OMNI SURROUND 5.1  
and I am worried about the comfort level of  TH-X00


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

To be frankly honest it might your immersion a little bit, but it shouldn't affect it to bad. I used to use my K712 with a fan on and it didn't ruin it for me. 

 The Omni seems like it should do the trick with either headphone. 

 I can't speak for comfort about the TH-X00, but it seems to be either hit or miss them. Some people love them, other hate them. The K712 I have no issues wearing for hours upon hours on end. The only headphones I've used that are comfier are the K812s.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> OOYH is something else entirely. I recommend listening to their example videos.


 
  
 Yea but how do you make it to work? I'm using Windows 10.  On his website it says the software only support Windows 7 & 8.
 Maybe that's why it's not working? Did you get it to work with windows 10?


----------



## jincuteguy

So I finally got the Darin Fong Out Of Your Head software to work.
  
 My jaw dropped on the floor, wow, it's so AMAZING....I don't get how come not a lot of ppl are using this for Gaming.
 It is WAY BETTER than Creative X7 dac / amp with SBX surround, better than any Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone-X, Creative G5 SBX, etc....
  
 I have the Creative X7 and I thought it's the best Surround for Gaming until I tried out this software. It just blow the hell out of the SBX surround from the X7.
  
 Right now I am using the software with my Chord Mojo DAC / Amp, and let me tell you, it is HEAVEN for Gaming, not only that but you get to pick what Surround sound speakers Measurements / Setup.
  
 This software is way worth the money than the Creative X7.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> So I finally got the Darin Fong Out Of Your Head software to work.
> 
> My jaw dropped on the floor, wow, it's so AMAZING....I don't get how come not a lot of ppl are using this for Gaming.
> It is WAY BETTER than Creative X7 dac / amp with SBX surround, better than any Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone-X, Creative G5 SBX, etc....
> ...


 

 My thoughts exactly. OOYH is just another league when compared to SBX and DH. Unfortunately it's a PC only solution and I don't really play on my PC anymore. The only games I managed to get this to run were L4D2 and Insurgency since they aren't that resource heavy.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> My thoughts exactly. OOYH is just another league when compared to SBX and DH. Unfortunately it's a PC only solution and I don't really play on my PC anymore. The only games I managed to get this to run were L4D2 and Insurgency since they aren't that resource heavy.


 
  
 Yea true, that it only works with PC.  I would rather spent $150 for this software than spending $400 for the Creative X7.
 This software needs to be mention in the first page of this thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't tested it yet. I'll think about it in the future when I have the time.


----------



## Yethal

Please do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal can you send me a link to it in private message? I'm sure I'll forget otherwise.

It costs $150? But there is a demo of some sort?


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Yethal can you send me a link to it in private message? I'm sure I'll forget otherwise.
> 
> It costs $150? But there is a demo of some sort?


 

 There is a trial version available as well as online prerecorded demos.


----------



## Sam21

there is a trial version that lets you test the software, 
  
  
 there are similar softwares like DFX and Viper4windows....


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> there is a trial version that lets you test the software,
> 
> 
> there are similar softwares like DFX and Viper4windows....


 
 It's not the same software as other Generic surround sound software.
 Those other generic softwares are not even in the same league as this OutOfYourHead


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> Yethal can you send me a link to it in private message? I'm sure I'll forget otherwise.
> 
> It costs $150? But there is a demo of some sort?



It's currently on massdrop... I took a quick look at it there. The drop price would be 75 dollars... I wonder if it can be shard across multiple pc's? Hmmmmm


----------



## jincuteguy

lenroot77 said:


> It's currently on massdrop... I took a quick look at it there. The drop price would be 75 dollars... I wonder if it can be shard across multiple pc's? Hmmmmm


 
 Can't share, only work for 1 pc, it uses hardware ID for 1 license.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it easy to set up? I'll try and game on the trial tomorrow.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Is it easy to set up? I'll try and game on the trial tomorrow.


 
 Yea it's pretty easy.  But it didn't work with my X7, so I had to use Realtek audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What? Why didn't it work? A clash of drivers? I guess you could try the X7's optical input instead, assuming your computer has an optical out.


----------



## Change is Good

Thought I'd share my latest experiment with you guys (done by PETEREK). Absolutely jaw dropping!


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> What? Why didn't it work? A clash of drivers? I guess you could try the X7's optical input instead, assuming your computer has an optical out.


 
 Yea I tried the optical too, didn't work.  It works with my Chord Mojo DAC / Amp though.  I think Darin Fong said something about it doesnt work with ASIO and i think all Creative stuff are ASIO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmmm, I see. That kind of sucks.


Change, mucho bonito, hombre. I'm more of a dark color kind of guy (TH600 in black is ultimate in my book), but it's good stuff.


----------



## halcyon

jincuteguy said:


> So I finally got the Darin Fong Out Of Your Head software to work.
> 
> My jaw dropped on the floor, wow, it's so AMAZING....I don't get how come not a lot of ppl are using this for Gaming.
> It is WAY BETTER than Creative X7 dac / amp with SBX surround, better than any Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone-X, Creative G5 SBX, etc....
> ...


 
  
 Some things :
  
 1. *Latency *(do you have latency measurements for OOYH? I can't find any and I can't make it to work with any testing software, so I can't measure the latency)
  
 2. *Compatibility*: I'm running Win 8.1 64-bit and SB X-Fi Elite Pro and SBX G5. With these card all games work in multi-channel (if they offer it). Always. WIth some applications/software I can't get OOYH to output anything. All I hear is crackle and pop, then silence. Windows mixer output, OOYH own control panel output and various simple stereo outputting software work ok. But for example, RightMark3DSound does not work with OOYH (at least not on my system).
  
 3. *CPU utilization*: again, I can't measure this, because I can't get it work, but I'd wager that with 7.1 discrete streams going into OOYH virtual sound card and 128 simultaneous sounds playing (BF-series) I'd be very surprised if the CPU utilization doesn't spike up quite a lot. This may or may not matter, depending your system.
  
 4. *Price*: $150 is a lot for something that requires tinkering and doesn't work straight out of the box with everything. I'd be willing to pay $50, if I have to tinker and it works 80% of the time. Not $150.
  
 5. I*t's just a virtualizer, not all-in-one*. You still need proper headphone-output or digital output (+ related gear) anyway, so you need a physical sound card. That's extra cost you will have to pay. Unless one is willing to tolerate the ALC1150 and scrappy standard 3.5mm output from integrated MB chipset. So, you pay $150 for OOYH + say $100 for some dedicated sound card to get decent headphone output. If one has only $100-$150 to spend, many would spend it on the decent headphone output (I.e. card, dac, hp, aio) first to actually drive the headphones. No more $150 to spend on better virtualization than what comes with the new sound card.
  
 6. *Quality*: Yes, this is nitpicking for gaming, but the OOYH driver is limited to 24bit/48kHz (it has 32bit mode, but that's beside the point). Many DH/SBX cards do 24b/88.4/96kHz. For games that probably doesn't matter to 99.9999% of the people, but it's still a point to consider.
  
 7. *Reliability*: Read the OOYH thread. To me it's beta level quality still: clicks and pops, volume clipping, licenses resetting themselves (Fong has been courageously trying to fix this for a year).
  
 8. Philosophy/*acoustics*: You are using a *combination *of *HRTF *(measurement from mics at entrance to ear canal) from + actual *loudspeaker measurements *(they have their own voice) + a *specific room acoustics* (room place often 60% into the sound, unless the speakers are uniformly and controlled-directive). Thus, *you are listening to somebody's head + somebody's loudspeakers + somebody's room*. This information is layered on top of any sound you are listening. Say you are listening to a virtual 7.1 game sound stream inside the game's a open-air virtual environment with very little echo/reverb/reflecations/group delay: the sound is spacious, open and gives you the feel for the space (open air). You activate OOYH, which activates HRTF data + loudspeaker data + room data. Now your open air game virtual space  sound like you're inside a room, with room reflections, echo, group delay, etc. *This is why I dislike Dolby Headphone*. It's like I'm gaming with a *virtual 4-by-4 meter room around my head,* even when I'm not in closed space (inside the game). It distorts the sense of space for all game surround sound stimuli - everything becomes inside a box. It boxifies all sounds (yeah, I just made that term up, boxify). I do not know if OOYH has an anechoic/non-echoic preset filter that would prevent this (I wish I could get it to work properly to test for this). Those who have it working, do you find this problematic and how do you feel about DH? I know MLE loves DH for positional accuracy. I can't personally get beyond the box effect.
  
  
  
 I'd like to get it working myself. I've tried. It works for simple applications, but not for all. YMMV, of course. Many seem to be happy and users in the OOYH thread say it has "virtually no latency", whatever that means :-D

 If somebody has *latency and cpu utilization measurements *(say from inside a fast moving firefight in BF4 or something similar, with OOYH as the selected  7.1 soundcard playback device in the game), *please post here or in the OOYH thread: *
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/689299/out-of-your-head-new-virtual-surround-simulator


----------



## Yethal

It's a shame Darin Fong uses such an unreliable licensing scheme. If it weren't for that we could just launch ooyh inside a vm and measure from there.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Change, mucho bonito, hombre. I'm more of a dark color kind of guy (TH600 in black is ultimate in my book), but it's good stuff.


 
  
 Yeah, I mulled over doing it or not for a good while. The opportunity presented itself when I was getting the cups dampened, so I went for it. Totally happy in the end; can't wait to finally get them back after being gone for a good while.
  
 The 400i is next...


----------



## Change is Good

The 9500 is now back on sale on ebay after selling out recently 

$60

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-SHP9500-Over-Ear-Headphones-Black/381133854860


----------



## jincuteguy

change is good said:


> The 9500 is now back on sale on ebay after selling out recently
> 
> $60
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Philips-SHP9500-Over-Ear-Headphones-Black/381133854860


 
 What's so good about the 9500?


----------



## Change is Good

jincuteguy said:


> What's so good about the 9500?




You are getting $150-$200 sound quality for $60. What's not so good about that?


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, if I pick up another pair will you review them? I'm tempted to pick up another spare set to keep to keep in the closet. I'd send the ones I already have but they've been modded and would not be ideal for the guide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not really in the mood to review anything for awhile. I haven't used a headphone essentially since I reviewed the Ether C. Yes, 3 weeks or so. That's where I'm at with headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

I appreciate the voice of reasoning. I shouldn't be spending any_more_ money anyway. It's just that, with as much wear I put on them, I'd be really sad if they were to crap out and not have access to another set.

I still game a lot and use headphones 99.9 percent of the time. The 9500 gets used the most.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's the only time I use my headphones, and I haven't really gamed lately, outside of just using my soundbar. Wearing headphones just got tiring. Doesn't help that the games I've been playing have been indie titles that don't even use surround.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> That's the only time I use my headphones, and I haven't really gamed lately, outside of just using my soundbar. Wearing headphones just got tiring. Doesn't help that the games I've been playing have been indie titles that don't even use surround.


 
  
 It's all about IEM and CIEM now aday, no more headphone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I hate IEMs.


----------



## octiceps

change is good said:


> You are getting *$150-$200* sound quality for $60. What's not so good about that?




That's a strech. A Bikram Yoga streeeeeech.


----------



## Imperatore

Been switching the k712 between mixamp and mixamp+Magni. To my untrained ears I cannot tell a difference which makes me slightly annoyed as the way people talk its like running without a decent amp renders them unusable.


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> Been switching the k712 between mixamp and mixamp+Magni. To my untrained ears I cannot tell a difference which makes me slightly annoyed as the way people talk its like running without a decent amp renders them unusable.


 

 The louder You try to crank them the bigger the difference will be especially with both game audio and chat.


----------



## Imperatore

I find halfway almost too loud but I have not tried yet with mic.  Before I get one I presume I can replicate this by moving the Game/Voice slider to say halfway and then see.


----------



## Yethal

IIRC the Mixamp goes quieter when the microphone is connected.


----------



## Imperatore

Decided to keep X7 as it's tidier.  I'm very indecisive.


----------



## gsmatt

How does the x7 compare to the mixamp?


----------



## Change is Good

That damn X7 bundle at massdrop tho! I'm tempted because I honestly would like a device to unleash my 400i and TH-X00's full potential when gaming 

I think being limited to just the mixamp is why I often reach for the 9500 more than the others.


----------



## Yethal

If it's bundled with the bt-w2 transmitter then go for it.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> If it's bundled with the bt-w2 transmitter then go for it.




It is, but I'd probably still just use the mixamp when chatting. Adjusting chat/game audio is as good as it gets there, plus my brain mostly focuses on convos rather than sound quality in such situations.


----------



## Change is Good

What kind of optical splitter are you guys using? Like, let's say I want to split audio from my PS4 to both the X7 and mixamp.


----------



## Change is Good

Scratch that. I sound silly needing two different audio devices for one system. If I get the X7 I'll just have to throw the mixamp and 9500 in the closet as backups.

Do you guys even use the boompro with the X7? I'm assuming most just opt for a seperate mic to avoid using excess adapters or what not.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> What kind of optical splitter are you guys using? Like, let's say I want to split audio from my PS4 to both the X7 and mixamp.



Plug the mixamp into optical out of the x7


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^He can't get proper Dolby Digital to the Mixamp that way.


----------



## Yethal

X7 has a passthrough feature on the optical in/out so I think that would work.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh, wait, I was thinking of SBX processing for some reason. You're right.


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks guys. I'll be thinking about it for a couple days.


----------



## Arniesb

Hi MadLust. What is the best dolby device right now for headphones?


----------



## rockytopwiz

X7 does get a bit more clarity than mixamp, but not worth that steep price imo. Sold mine. I ran m50x, x2, and zmf vibro through it when I had it, and couldn't justify that price for me. Especially when you consider the chat audio problems. X7 was a good idea but they need a new iteration with better chat audio and the ability to handle 5 channels with ample power to make it worth that money imo. Right now it's like a mixamp with a little bit less resistance (a tiny bit less static) that is a pain in the ass to get voice audio through.
 Ps speakers are better


----------



## rockytopwiz

arniesb said:


> Hi MadLust. What is the best dolby device right now for headphones?



If you need Dolby then mixamp pro, but as long as the device you use has surround sound decoding it will make quite the difference in gaming. I find sound through headphones out of my Yamaha receiver to be very compareable to that through my mixamp pro tr. The mixamp is just so damn convenient with its little knobs for adusting game/chat audio. I will admit the phones do sound a little better through the mixamp, but not by a lot, and I don't know how much of that is me just wanting to believe that to jusify my purchase, or the extent of the legitimacy to that. It's so miniscule I'd prob chalk it up as a placebo effect for sound quality alone. As long as it can separate those positional cues, thats all that matters, look for hardware that will do what you need it to do. I like my Yamaha because it can run my speakers too. But I keep my mixamp because I chat quite a bit and it's just nice having the knobs right there to adjust. I'd recommend just getting what best suits What you plan to use it for. As long as the hardware has surround sound decoding, that's really what matters. I have yet to be blown away by one decoding over another


----------



## Arniesb

rockytopwiz said:


> If you need Dolby then mixamp pro, but as long as the device you use has surround sound decoding it will make quite the difference in gaming. I find sound through headphones out of my Yamaha receiver to be very compareable to that through my mixamp pro tr. The mixamp is just so damn convenient with its little knobs for adusting game/chat audio. I will admit the phones do sound a little better through the mixamp, but not by a lot, and I don't know how much of that is me just wanting to believe that to jusify my purchase, or the extent of the legitimacy to that. It's so miniscule I'd prob chalk it up as a placebo effect for sound quality alone. As long as it can separate those positional cues, thats all that matters, look for hardware that will do what you need it to do. I like my Yamaha because it can run my speakers too. But I keep my mixamp because I chat quite a bit and it's just nice having the knobs right there to adjust. I'd recommend just getting what best suits What you plan to use it for. As long as the hardware has surround sound decoding, that's really what matters. I have yet to be blown away by one decoding over another


 I read that it needs soundcard capable of dolby live if you want to have surround? Is it like external dac and amp with surround function? Does this amp is even capable of driving 300 or 600 OHM headphones?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting. A few weeks ago I criticized the BlasterX G5's SBX implementation about being implosive, very reverby (which it was like in bathroom, downright dissapointing) and now the recent drivers fixed that. Gotta do more tests but so far the implosive/collapsing imaging is gone. 
  
 I wonder why this stuff gets fixed MONTHS after release. So you have a product more than 3 months in the market and now you fix one of its biggest advertised features?


----------



## Yethal

I've just ordered the SRH1840. Already shivering with anticipation.


----------



## Imperatore

Is there an 'in between' headphone anyone would recommend between the K712 and X2?  The K712 I find the bass pretty much non existent, and the X2 too strong.
 I have also tried DT770, and DT990 (which I nearly kept).  I have some Beyer COP coming tomorrow as they were like £50 so worth a try.
 Dt990 (250) Pro can currently be had for £108 which seems reasonable, last ones I tried were Premiums (250).


----------



## rockytopwiz

arniesb said:


> I read that it needs soundcard capable of dolby live if you want to have surround? Is it like external dac and amp with surround function? Does this amp is even capable of driving 300 or 600 OHM headphones?



First let me say I am a console gamer so there may be someone else here better suited to anser your question. Yes though, the mixamp is an external dac/amp with surround function, but is only rates at 32 ohm impedance. In order to drive 300-600 ohm you would need an additional external amp or dac/amp that you can daisy chain to the mixamp. You could also get a sound card I suppose but i don't know much about those. Funny, the sounblaster x7 may best suit your needs if you have high impedance phones. It can push them no problem and give you sbx decoding all externally. From what I read the external stuff is supposed to be better than internal on pc, but I have no experience with that


----------



## Change is Good

imperatore said:


> Is there an 'in between' headphone anyone would recommend between the K712 and X2?  The K712 I find the bass pretty much non existent, and the X2 too strong.
> I have also tried DT770, and DT990 (which I nearly kept).  I have some Beyer COP coming tomorrow as they were like £50 so worth a try.
> Dt990 (250) Pro can currently be had for £108 which seems reasonable, last ones I tried were Premiums (250).


 
  
 In between? Man, that's tough...
  
 Oppo PM3, maybe? I found it rather enjoyable when I heard it, and its bass may be just where you want it.


----------



## Imperatore

Thank you for taking the time to suggest but I cannot justify that much on a headphone at my level and considering the use (99% gaming).  I suppose at a push I could just increase the bass through the X7 settings or reduce for the X2, actually now I wrote that I don't understand why I haven't tried it.


----------



## rockytopwiz

imperatore said:


> Thank you for taking the time to suggest but I cannot justify that much on a headphone at my level and considering the use (99% gaming).  I suppose at a push I could just increase the bass through the X7 settings or reduce for the X2, actually now I wrote that I don't understand why I haven't tried it.


those recessed mids on the x2 get me as well man. I could go back to the hd598, but then I would miss the bass. Lol, sorry I'm no help. Haven't tried eq yet either, let us know how it goes!


----------



## Imperatore

yethal said:


> I've just ordered the SRH1840. Already shivering with anticipation.


 
On my hitlist Wrong model lol, would never spend that much on a pair of headphones personally
  


rockytopwiz said:


> those recessed mids on the x2 get me as well man. I could go back to the hd598, but then I would miss the bass. Lol, sorry I'm no help. Haven't tried eq yet either, let us know how it goes!


 
  
 Contradicting myself earlier but I think I'm going to try *Shure SRH1540 and Ultrasonne Pro 900 * as I did like the 990 and it is a close comparison (just not in price)


----------



## Yethal

Well, I hope I never have to buy another headphone after this.


----------



## Fegefeuer

oh, but you will


----------



## FlyingFungus

yethal said:


> Well, I hope I never have to buy another headphone after this.


 

 My virgin ears said this once
  
 Now my wallet cries, while my ears jump for joy at the thought of aural pleasure.


----------



## Sam21

its good to buy a bunch of headphone, test/compare them and then get rid of the ones you don't want.


----------



## Imperatore

I have no shame in admitting I'm stupid with this stuff.  Is one reason the X2 are more bassy to me because they go to 5hz and the K712 10hz?


----------



## jincuteguy

sam21 said:


> its good to buy a bunch of headphone, test/compare them and then get rid of the ones you don't want.


 
 But the hard part is getting rid of the ones that you don't want,  You have to sell them to other ppl at a cheaper price and you will lose money.


----------



## Imperatore

^ Not if you buy from Amazon, nor is it classed as an abuse of the system.  I checked with livechat, told them why I was being 6 pairs of headphones and they confirmed no issue. They resell on warehouse deals.
  
 I will lose money on my K7XX Red I think.  I don't want to open them as I'm sure I'll find them the same as K712 in the bass department and people don't want to pay to cover the import fees and shipping it cost.  So it's either use them or lose about £70


----------



## lenroot77

jincuteguy said:


> But the hard part is getting rid of the ones that you don't want,  You have to sell them to other ppl at a cheaper price and you will lose money.




Or buy used and sell ... Little to no money is lost.


----------



## jincuteguy

imperatore said:


> ^ Not if you buy from Amazon, nor is it classed as an abuse of the system.  I checked with livechat, told them why I was being 6 pairs of headphones and they confirmed no issue. They resell on warehouse deals.
> 
> I will lose money on my K7XX Red I think.  I don't want to open them as I'm sure I'll find them the same as K712 in the bass department and people don't want to pay to cover the import fees and shipping it cost.  So it's either use them or lose about £70


 
  
 Amazon confirmed no issue of what? You mean amazon has no issue with you buying a a lot of headphones and returning? are you sure about this? I thought amazon would ban ppl who do a lot of returns.


----------



## jincuteguy

lenroot77 said:


> Or buy used and sell ... Little to no money is lost.


 
 But buying used won't guarantee you the sound of a brand new headphones cause sometimes the drivers inside have issue and sometimes most ppl dont know about it.


----------



## Imperatore

jincuteguy said:


> Amazon confirmed no issue of what? You mean amazon has no issue with you buying a a lot of headphones and returning? are you sure about this? I thought amazon would ban ppl who do a lot of returns.


 
  
 No issue with me testing them all and sending back what I don't like.  Never been so sure about anything in my life.  There is even a reason under returns for 'performance or quality not adequate'.  It's standard operating practice so why would you get banned?


----------



## jincuteguy

imperatore said:


> No issue with me testing them all and sending back what I don't like.  Never been so sure about anything in my life.  There is even a reason under returns for 'performance or quality not adequate'.  It's standard operating practice so why would you get banned?


 
  
 I dont know but a lot of ppl got banned for returning a lot of items.  They even posted on reddit about getting banned.
 AT first i don't belive it until my brother got a Warning email from Amazon about him returning just a few stuff back to amazon.
 Maybe you got lucky and they haven't got to you yet.


----------



## Imperatore

I have also spent a lot of money with them over the years so maybe that is taken into consideration.  Just speculating of course.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> My thoughts exactly. OOYH is just another league when compared to SBX and DH. Unfortunately it's a PC only solution and I don't really play on my PC anymore. The only games I managed to get this to run were L4D2 and Insurgency since they aren't that resource heavy.



I think you just answered the question yourself. But I also agree that, like Dolby Headphone, it simulates a home theater and thus always sounds indoors rather than just letting your surroundings disappear... and just be in the game.




imperatore said:


> I have no shame in admitting I'm stupid with this stuff.  Is one reason the X2 are more bassy to me because they go to 5hz and the K712 10hz?



No. They both extend bass reproduction beyond human hearing. The X2 just has a sizable hump in the midbass region.

How did you like using the X7's EQ feature? I will point out, I owned an AKG Q701 for 3 years before buying a K712. The K712 is designed to have 3dB more bass than the Q701, but the more used Q701 very clearly had more rumble and presence in the bass department. The Q701 was unmodded apart from a headband wrap, but either through driver burn-in (time used) or accumulation of stuff in the pads from years of wear, the Q701 was not even subtle about being more bassy and three guests that came over agreed. The K712 was a bit clearer too, though, and slightly smoother in the treble range, so I preferred that.


----------



## Imperatore

Thanks for explaining. I don't touch the eq as I don't really get how to use it. In all honesty I prefer the Mixamp for simplicity and at times feel it sounds better.


----------



## Evshrug

I feel it's pretty simple to explain EQ... There's a bunch of sliders, the further left the slider the lower notes it affects. For example, try this experiment with your K712:

Go into your SBX settings, then tap the Equalizer tab at the top of the settings screen. There should be a drop-down menu that says "flat," click that and choose bass booster. Notice how all the left sliders move up higher and higher? Listen to some music! Then try Treble Booster... The sliders on the left go back to flat, but now the sliders to the right make a staircase up.

I think it's cool you can see what the sliders do as you change a preset, and you can hear the change in audio in pretty obvious ways. Then you can change the sliders manually... If you listen during/after each change, you can really get a feel for what notes are affected. You can really tune audio to your preference, and the K712 drivers can take it without much distortion.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> oh, but you will


 
  


flyingfungus said:


> My virgin ears said this once
> 
> Now my wallet cries, while my ears jump for joy at the thought of aural pleasure.


 
 Plz don't. I want to believe.


----------



## FlyingFungus

yethal said:


> Plz don't. I want to believe.


lol well good luck! It could happen. I didn't buy headphones for 3 years after my Denon D2000 because I loved them so much, so it could happen.


----------



## Imperatore

Ah ok, I suppose this way you can make different profiles for certain games etc.  I guess I always wanted to jsut hear the game as it was supposed to be (ignoring that I have surround on of course).  Interestingly, and also bewilderingly, I decided to open the K7XX (Got number 234) and despite saying the same spec on the box as the K712, it has the bass I always wanted to the 12 to have. 
 I am genuinely baffled as  to why this is but it means I don't feel I need to fiddle with the EQ at this point.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can make an argument* for* virtual surround as it's emulating what the game is supposed to sound like in a multiple speaker setup as opposed to stereo, which console titles don't tend to be (asides from smaller titles).


----------



## Imperatore

That makes perfect sense.  I'm getting there slowly.  I always check the title to see if there is a surround option in the settings too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have much to do today, so I'm pretty sure when I wake up later I'll FINALLY try out that Out of your Head software. I'll give my thoughts on it, if/when I do.


----------



## rockytopwiz

imperatore said:


> Ah ok, I suppose this way you can make different profiles for certain games etc.  I guess I always wanted to jsut hear the game as it was supposed to be (ignoring that I have surround on of course).  Interestingly, and also bewilderingly, I decided to open the K7XX (Got number 234) and despite saying the same spec on the box as the K712, it has the bass I always wanted to the 12 to have.
> I am genuinely baffled as  to why this is but it means I don't feel I need to fiddle with the EQ at this point.


so you like the xx beter than x2 and 712? How r those mids? Curious about those shure 1840s let us know how you like those man. As for the 1540s, Zeos says the 840 are the better value


----------



## Evshrug

Which one of those Shures has the treble flaw? Or was it bass distortion?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That Out Of Your Head demo reel sounds a lot like Dolby Headphone. :confused_face_2:

IIRC, it actually sounds like it has MORE reverb than DH2, So.... yeah, there's that. Like DH-3.

Front speaker doesn't sound like it's fully in front, but above my head and front.

Not sure about this tech.

Rear sound cues are good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not gonna dismiss it, but I'd have to do some in depth testing and comparison with DH, since that what it sounds more like, not SBX or THX Tru Studio. The free trial interrupting after 2 minutes sounds like it's gonna be a problem. he could've at least given us a 24 hour period or something.

I should be able to test it ok with my Xonar U3, since I can just toggle DH on/off.


----------



## Yethal

Considering how much traffic this thread gets, can't You just request a review sample? Thousands of people lurk this place.


----------



## Imperatore

rockytopwiz said:


> so you like the xx beter than x2 and 712? How r those mids? Curious about those shure 1840s let us know how you like those man. As for the 1540s, Zeos says the 840 are the better value




I find the XX that good that I cancelled the order. I haven't listened to much music on them yet but I'll let you know my novice opinion


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They never emailed me the trial for the Out of Your head software.


----------



## Yethal

Check the spam folder.


----------



## rockytopwiz

evshrug said:


> Which one of those Shures has the treble flaw? Or was it bass distortion?



I'm not shure (ha) man I've never heard them personally. One review I read on here for the 1840 said mids were a little lacking, but would like to hear more impressions. I'm looking for giant soundstage with good mid. Maybe hd700?


----------



## boopboopboop

Hello there,
  
 Great guide! I wanted to request some help finding a pair of headphones that would suite me.
 - Max price = $200
 - FPS compatible and comfortable for long sessions
 - I have been comparing the AKG and Beyerdynamic headphones at Tier B (they are cheaper when I am), but cannot find ones that are a good balance between comfort, fun and competitive.
 - Between fun, competitive and comfortable, competitive should be slightly higher, but others should not be far off.
 - Here are the ones I was looking at the most, but other recommendations are highly appreciated: 
_     Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus_
_     AKG Q701_
_     AKG K701 (K702)_
  
*All comments are appreciated!!*


----------



## lenroot77

boopboopboop said:


> Hello there,
> 
> Great guide! I wanted to request some help finding a pair of headphones that would suite me.
> - Max price = $200
> ...




If highly recommend u looking into the AKG K7Xx's!


----------



## Yethal

AKG will probably be better as far as competitive goes, but Beyers will be much more convenient for gaming (customizable bass and dedicated microphone).


 Instead of:


----------



## boopboopboop

Thank you very much for your replies.
 I was looking into the Beyer Custom One Pro Plus earlier.
 What I didn't notice was the included mic which is very nice.
 Another point to make, I would appreciate some sound isolation, which apparently the AKG's do not appear to offer judging by the mesh on the outside of the cups.
  
 Currently I am using Razer Kraken Pro headphones and was really looking for an upgrade.
 If you have any other comments, that would be appreciated. Otherwise I will be looking at buying the Beyerdynamic One's in the near future.
  
 Thanks again.
  
 EDIT:
 - I did some research and found that their predecessors (non-Plus version) are more expensive. Do you know why? This is about the Beyer headphones.
 - I also found that the mic needs to be purchased separately, but I don't think that will be too big of an issue.


----------



## Yethal

The non-Plus version is no longer sold, however the only difference between Plus and non-Plus version is the amount of accessories included in the box.


----------



## boopboopboop

Yethal, since you have those headphones I would like to ask what is YOUR opinion on them, if you would recommend them and what are your most notable disadvantages of them. As well, have you tried the AKG K7xx's? If so how would you compare them and any comments on that.
  
 Thanks again!


----------



## Yethal

I'd easily recommend them for anyone, mostly due to their customizability. Want to make them look different? Add a personal touch? No problem. Make them more bassy or more neutral? No problem, switch the bass ports on the cups. Want to change them into the headset? Unplug the stock cable and plug the Custom Headset Gear. And that's why I like these headphones.
  
 Well, as for the disadvantages. The stock pads are made of pleather and get my head all sweaty after a prolonged use. These can be easily swapped for velour pads and I highly recommend doing that.  The stock cable is rather flimsy. After about a week of portable use, one of the wires inside broke and right channel drops out when I move the cable. The cable is removable so it's not that big of a deal but it could be a little bit more durable.
  
 I did not try the AKG K7xx so my opinion on them would be second-hand only. I recommend heading out to the K7xx thread for more info.


----------



## boopboopboop

I would like to find more about this headset and what the community thinks of it here: *AKG K550*


----------



## AxelCloris

boopboopboop said:


> I would like to find more about this headset and what the community thinks of it here: *AKG K550*


 

 I find them dull and lifeless while sitting awkwardly on the head with a weak clamping force. I am not personally a fan.


----------



## boopboopboop

So you would recommend the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro's instead? Or would you recommend something else (if you look at my earlier posts on this thread today).
  
 Thank you!


----------



## Apexx

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to MLE for this guide. Been lurking for years and read the guide to help me in buying my first nice pair of headphones in 2013. Props to MLE and everyone who posts in this thread to help out .


----------



## boopboopboop

apexx said:


> Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to MLE for this guide. Been lurking for years and read the guide to help me in buying my first nice pair of headphones in 2013. Props to MLE and everyone who posts in this thread to help out .


 
 Would be nice if you told us what you decided on


----------



## Apexx

boopboopboop said:


> Would be nice if you told us what you decided on


 
 At the time it was between the Fidelio X1s or the Sony MDRMA900s.
  
 I ended up going with the Sonys due to the comfort factor and love them to this day. I just wish I had more money to spend on to try on other headphones but I guess that is the eternal struggle with everyone on this site.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Which one of those Shures has the treble flaw? Or was it bass distortion?


 
  
 Both the 1840 and 1540 had distortion issues down low, but it was the 1840 that had a driver flaw. Something just wasn't right, and the distortion was more noticeable when I switched pads. The 1540's slight distortion was easily cleaned up with better sealing pads like the alphas, which was not the case with the 1840.
  
 It's only noticeable if you look for it, but it's there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

nvm disregard, thought of something else.


----------



## boopboopboop

*AKG K550* vs *Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus *vs *Beyerdynamic DT Series* vs *AKG K700 Series** *HEADPHONES
  
 I'm looking for headphones more oriented for gaming and PC use, but at the same time, decent quality for movies and music (dubstep, rock, house, a little of other)
  
*Thank you!*


----------



## AxelCloris

boopboopboop said:


> So you would recommend the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro's instead? Or would you recommend something else (if you look at my earlier posts on this thread today).
> 
> Thank you!


 

 I can't recommend the COP because I've not heard them. I game with either my Ether or the SHP9500.


----------



## jincuteguy

Hey MLE, did the OutOfYourHead software work with your Creative X7? It doesn't work with my G5 cause I think the software can only see the ASIO mode for the G5.  So I'm wondering if it works at all with your X7.


----------



## emifer

Hi!
Really helpful and great post.

Nothing, thanks for your help


----------



## grit45

The V-Moda BoomPro is compatible with the AKG 712, 702, and Q701 with an adapter.  I think they should be added to the list of mics compatible with the V-Moda BoomPro.


----------



## Ghostfish141

Hello!
  
 TLDR: Are the AD700x's great for ALL game genres? or primarily FPS where directional awareness is important to be competitive
  
 First of all thank you for all of the research and information that you have listed in this guide. It is truly spectacular.  I have been reading as many of the reviews as possible but I have a few questions.  It seems that the AD700x's are the go to for a competitive gaming setup, however it sounds like this is mostly because of the fact that you can hear where other players will be coming from, but at the cost of a limited bass.This has limited relativity to me as I only play a few FPS games, and to be honest the competitiveness is not my top priority when it comes to a headphone, Immersion would be more important. I typically play games such as WoW, DOTA, Diablo.... games like that. I have no experience with open back headphones and noise isolation is not an issue with my situation. I was considering the DT990's and was hoping to find someone that maybe has experience with one or both of these, or if anyone has any other suggestions!
  
 Thanks!!


----------



## Sam21

The AD700X have a really good soundstage, however they are a bit bass shy. try MA900's ... they would be the better choice over all according to my experience.


----------



## rockytopwiz

A good closed back headphone can be really fun for immersion


----------



## FlyingFungus

I still use my Ultrasone HFI-780 for gaming. They're still one of the better headphones out there for gaming.


----------



## headphonesonly

Has anyone tried the pioneer se-a1000 for gaming? If so does it have good positional audio like my philips fidelio x2?
  
 Or is the Philips shp9500 better.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

Forgive the self-service, but I figured there would be a higher concentration of console gamers viewing this thread. If anyone is interested in a 1-year Playstation Plus subscription digital code, kindly check out my listing:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/804039/1-year-playstation-plus-membership-ps3-ps4-ps-vita-digital-code
  
 If uninterested, nothing to see here...as you were.


----------



## boopboopboop

*Hello All!*
  
 I have been wanting an upgrade to my current headset for a few months now but never got around to searching for something new. I currently have Razer Kraken Pro's. From that I think you can imagine that I use it mostly for Gaming, PC Gaming. I recently asked on this thread about recommendations, as well on reddit (r/headphones) and a got a large variety of answers for what would work best for me. I will lay out what I'm searching for and past recommendations, which you could hopefully approve or disapprove.
  
*-------------------------------<< copied from reddit comment>>-----------------------------*
*Budget* - Up to 150 CHF (MAYBE extend 10-20 more, but better not to)

*Source* - 95% Desktop PC

*Requirements for Isolation* - Some. 95% used at home at PC, 5% on transport

*Preferred Type of Headphone* - Full-Sized, Circumaural (Cupped around ear)

*Preferred tonal balance* - First priority is for gaming, specifically positional Cues in FPS's. Second is for music which is specified below

*Past headphones* - Currently using Razer Kraken Pro's. Personal opinion: comfortable, no apparent issues, just looking for audio upgrade as these sound "fair".

*Preferred Music* - Dubstep, rock, progressive house, epic [no judging  ]

*What would you like to improve on from your set-up* - Overall audio upgrade as well as better in-game immersion and positional cues.

*Location* - Switzerland 

*Price/Product Search tips in relation to location:*

- en.toppreise.ch

- amazon.(fr/de)

- general search with "ch" at the end.

*-------------------------------<< copied from reddit comment >>-----------------------------*

 

*Headphones recommended previously:*

*- *Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro's

- AKG K550

- Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro's**

- Audio Technica M50X

  
 **(Lately, I have been keeping a close eye on the DT990's)
  
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Some Questions you might have:*
  
 Opened or closed back?
 - I don't Personally mind, I most use them at home with rare usage on trips (plane or car)
  
 Impedance?
 - I was initially thinking of low impedance headphones so I could use them with my portable devices on those rare occasion, but even in those case, the DT990's for example, seem to do an alright job without an AMP. I don't listen to music loudly (compared to lots of other people I know)
  
 Amp/Soundcard?
 - I know that onboard audio isn't great, but I have currently have THIS motherboard which is stated to have a decent integrated amplifier. Any comment son this will be welcome, but keep in mind I DO know an AMP would be slightly/marginally better or even a sound card for that manner.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
  
 I know this is a lot, but I value this community and this thread for all the time and effort put into helping others. Thank you all who are willing to contribute to this request.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Your MOBO has a pretty decent ap/dac from what I see, and it has SBX. You're golden there, as far as I see.

Look for Fidelio X1s if you can score them for cheap. I think you'll like them. X2 is even better, but right now there seems to be some inconsistencies on build quality, so I dunno.

DT990 Pro is fine choice as well, though treble is pretty strong.


----------



## boopboopboop

mad lust envy said:


> Your MOBO has a pretty decent ap/dac from what I see, and it has SBX. You're golden there, as far as I see.
> 
> Look for Fidelio X1s if you can score them for cheap. I think you'll like them. X2 is even better, but right now there seems to be some inconsistencies on build quality, so I dunno.
> 
> DT990 Pro is fine choice as well, though treble is pretty strong.


 
 Thank you very much for personally helping out.
 In relation to the Fidelio's they are definitely out of my price rang :/
 And the DT900 Pro, I read that some get used to the high treble and "learn to love" it.


----------



## lenroot77

boopboopboop said:


> Thank you very much for personally helping out.
> In relation to the Fidelio's they are definitely out of my price rang :/
> And the DT900 Pro, I read that some get used to the high treble and "learn to love" it.




Sent u a pm sir!


----------



## DaemonSire

Which you guys think would be the better gaming headphone?  The TH-X00 Mahogany or Purplehearts?
  
 MLE, I know you really liked the TH600 for gaming and it seems like the Mahogany is pretty close to it.
  
 I'm thinking that the Purplehearts may be even better given the increased bass and clarity.  Since the Purplehearts extend further in the treble, I think that would help and the added subbass will make them even more fun.  The reduced midrange makes me a bit hesitant though.
  
 Thoughts?  I know I want one or the other but it is hard to decide on the PH's given no one has heard them yet.


----------



## gsmatt

I joined the drop for the Fostex th-x00 purplehearts and I'm looking foward to comparing them to the Sony mdrz7.

Changing the subject a little bit and I haven't seen it mentioned much but what do you guys think the best headphone would be at a tournament or a loud environment? I'd imagine it would be a closed headphone but I don't know.


----------



## 435090

Selling my Alpha Dogs, I really didn't like them for gaming. I do like playing w/ desktop monitors, currently have Adam f5s and looking to step up from those. But I do need a relatively cheap, nice sounding set of headphones for when I do work/game and need not to bother others, Suggestions?


----------



## lenroot77

forstsiven said:


> Selling my Alpha Dogs, I really didn't like them for gaming. I do like playing w/ desktop monitors, currently have Adam f5s and looking to step up from those. But I do need a relatively cheap, nice sounding set of headphones for when I do work/game and need not to bother others, Suggestions?






There is a review on the first page of the thread.


----------



## 435090

Thanks, must have missed it browsing on my phone.


----------



## lenroot77

forstsiven said:


> Thanks, must have missed it browsing on my phone.




Ah no worries sir 

I picked the CAL's up a month or so back they are a steal for 40-50 dollars.


----------



## kellte2

forstsiven said:


> Selling my Alpha Dogs, I really didn't like them for gaming. I do like playing w/ desktop monitors, currently have Adam f5s and looking to step up from those. But I do need a relatively cheap, nice sounding set of headphones for when I do work/game and need not to bother others, Suggestions?




I've been eyeing the Alpha Dogs (and the few that are left in stock). are you planning on putting them up on the FS forum. Might be interested in them...

Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about them for gaming? I have the K702 Annies, but my girlfriend has started to give me grief about the sound leakage.


----------



## shuto77

flyingfungus said:


> I still use my Ultrasone HFI-780 for gaming. They're still one of the better headphones out there for gaming.


 
  
 I would disagree with you there, but to each his/her own.
  
 Maybe the Ultrasone HI-780s were a good deal 5 or 6 years ago, but there are much, much better closed headphones nowadays. The NAD VISO HP50, as just one example, eats them for breakfast, both for gaming and for music. The only area in which the 780s are "better" than is in bass quantity, but that's not necessarily a good thing for gaming. 
 I owned the 780s for about a year-and-a-half. 
  
 Have you tried any of the better closed-backs recently?


----------



## Drizz1e

daemonsire said:


> Which you guys think would be the better gaming headphone?  The TH-X00 Mahogany or Purplehearts?
> 
> MLE, I know you really liked the TH600 for gaming and it seems like the Mahogany is pretty close to it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You likely wouldn't notice a difference. When you're gaming you're not listening critically and the differences are small anyway.


----------



## shuto77

daemonsire said:


> Which you guys think would be the better gaming headphone?  The TH-X00 Mahogany or Purplehearts?
> 
> MLE, I know you really liked the TH600 for gaming and it seems like the Mahogany is pretty close to it.
> 
> ...


 
  
 The TH-X00 is probably a good bet, then you can try to grab a pair of MrSpeakers Alpha Pads to swap on . Those pads (which I have on my Alpha Primes) are super comfortable for leather pads, and a bit bigger thank the stock Fostex pads. The Alpha Pads *should increase the soundstage, isolation, and bass quantity* over the stock pads. The change between TH-X00 stock vs TH-X00 with Alpha Pads will probably be more noticable (and more comfortable!) than the differences between the stock TH-X00 and the Purplehearts. 
  
 From what I've read, the Purplehearts are probably not going to be too different sq-wise from the TH-X00s. To be honest, I've heard the TH-X00s, but not the Purplehearts, so I can't be 100% of this assessment.


----------



## Change is Good

Alpha pads reduce bass quantity on the X00.


----------



## 435090

Wrong reply.


----------



## FlyingFungus

shuto77 said:


> I would disagree with you there, but to each his/her own.
> 
> Maybe the Ultrasone HI-780s were a good deal 5 or 6 years ago, but there are much, much better closed headphones nowadays. The NAD VISO HP50, as just one example, eats them for breakfast, both for gaming and for music. The only area in which the 780s are "better" than is in bass quantity, but that's not necessarily a good thing for gaming.
> I owned the 780s for about a year-and-a-half.
> ...


 

 Fair enough.
  
 To be honest, I have yet to really try any other closed backs for gaming. They definitely were good when they were first released. Until I really test other headphones for gaming, which I dont do very often anymore, I still find them very good. I don't think you can go wrong with them personally. I found them really good not just in the bass region, but for positioning and I found them exciting. They're definitely not my best headphones that I own now, but I have yet to really test other headphones with gaming.
  
 I don't doubt there's a lot better out there now that i'll eventually have to try.
  
 I did try the NAD's only for music though. I thought they were alright, but nothing special. Can't comment on how they perform with gaming. And I didn't get the chance to compare them back to back, but I know the NAD's are much better for music than the Ultrasone's.


----------



## shuto77

flyingfungus said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> To be honest, I have yet to really try any other closed backs for gaming. They definitely were good when they were first released. Until I really test other headphones for gaming, which I dont do very often anymore, I still find them very good. I don't think you can go wrong with them personally. I found them really good not just in the bass region, but for positioning and I found them exciting. They're definitely not my best headphones that I own now, but I have yet to really test other headphones with gaming.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, and apologies if I came off a little harsh. I kinda had an axe to grind with headphones I've owned that I found to be super uncomfortable, including the Sennheiser HD-280s and the Ultrasone HFI-780s.  The 780s are good if you like extra bass, and the NADs will seem a little "boring" at first, but they grow on you.
  
 Also the other reason I pick on the HFI-780s: I could have bought the Denon D2000s instead of the 780s in 2010, but I wanted to save some money. I've regretted that decision ever since. This isn't the headphones' fault, only my own, but I haven't forgotten it, lol.


----------



## FlyingFungus

shuto77 said:


> Yes, and apologies if I came off a little harsh. I kinda had an axe to grind with headphones I've owned that I found to be super uncomfortable, including the Sennheiser HD-280s and the Ultrasone HFI-780s.  The 780s are good if you like extra bass, and the NADs will seem a little "boring" at first, but they grow on you.
> 
> Also the other reason I pick on the HFI-780s: I could have bought the Denon D2000s instead of the 780s in 2010, but I wanted to save some money. I've regretted that decision ever since. This isn't the headphones' fault, only my own, but I haven't forgotten it, lol.


 

 No worries man! You weren't harsh. I do agree, the 780's are not comfortable for extended periods of time. I would try the NAD's again, when my wallet allows me lol. I do like that extra bass, no doubt. I don't want to say I'm a basshead, but I do like good amounts of bass. I'm still slowly hunting for new headphones for all kinds of use. The B&W P7 and Hifiman HE-400 were both my latest purchases (both used). Haven't tried either for gaming yet, just music.
  
 I picked up the Ultrasone's first and then about a year or 2 later I think, I bought the Denon D2000's. They're truly spectacular headphones. They're my music headphones for sure. I haven't really tried them for gaming all that much, but I'm sure they'd do a great job. Don't think I'll ever get rid of them. But if you can find someone selling them, I would go for it if I were you lol.


----------



## 435090

kellte2 said:


> I've been eyeing the Alpha Dogs (and the few that are left in stock). are you planning on putting them up on the FS forum. Might be interested in them...
> 
> Out of curiosity, what didn't you like about them for gaming? I have the K702 Annies, but my girlfriend has started to give me grief about the sound leakage.


 
 I tend to play music while gaming, and I just prefer hearing music through my speakers. I currently have ADAM F5's, which are entry level speakers, and plan to upgrade to either ADAM A7X or maybe even Event Opals (another $1500 on top of what I'd have to spend for the A7X). I find with headphones, playing music and hearing the games' sound together is too much. It never bothers me when I play with speakers for reasons I don't quite understand.
  
 I'm also selling a Liquid Carbon (<30 hours on it) and several cables including a 5 ft balanced Norne cable. I'd like to keep everything together for one sale rather than have to **** around with trying to sell three separate components. I'm actually going to put up the posting tonight if I can access the sale forums, so keep your eyes out for the posting.

 Everything is basically in perfect or like new condition. I wanted to get into hi-fi stuff as an alternative to my speakers and I just really don't have a case where I can't blast my speakers as loud as I want despite living in a condo (since I work from home). I also tend to work between two desks, my couch, and it's a pain to have to move stuff around a have cables everywhere. Just not my cup of coffee.


----------



## Yethal

Fedex courier tried to deliver me my Shure and failed. Two days in a row. I get it that they have a tight schedule but who the hell delivers packages at 1pm? The only people who are home at 1pm are unemployed or students. Is Fedex always this unreliable or am I just unlucky?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Has anyone ever tried a headphone amp (not counting the astro mix amp) for console gaming? 
I was considering using a RCA to 3.5 adapter with my 558s but then I realized I won't have a way to control volume. 
Hear a amp would help but I don't know too much about that area.


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Has anyone ever tried a headphone amp (not counting the astro mix amp) for console gaming?
> I was considering using a RCA to 3.5 adapter with my 558s but then I realized I won't have a way to control volume.
> Hear a amp would help but I don't know too much about that area.


I think USB amps like the objective 2 would work with the ps4. I'm quoting this from another forum.


----------



## headphonesonly

Dunno about Xbox one or last gen consoles.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Ah my apologies I was talking about last gen consoles like 360 and PS3
Was looking at this just now. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000KIPT30/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460601147&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=behringer+ha400&dpPl=1&dpID=51nwD3v6KZL&ref=plSrch


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Fedex courier tried to deliver me my Shure and failed. Two days in a row. I get it that they have a tight schedule but who the hell delivers packages at 1pm? The only people who are home at 1pm are unemployed or students. Is Fedex always this unreliable or am I just unlucky?


 

 I'm home most Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 1pm and I'm certainly employed and haven't been a student for a while. That's my "weekend" since I work through the actual weekend. As for FedEx, just have them route the package to a local FedEx Office location for free. Works every time for me when I'm not going to be home for delivery. I can pick them up at my local location any time before 9pm, plenty of time to make it there from my office across town.


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Ah my apologies I was talking about last gen consoles like 360 and PS3
> Was looking at this just now.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000KIPT30/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460601147&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=behringer+ha400&dpPl=1&dpID=51nwD3v6KZL&ref=plSrch


this is a great amp and is only $63. It has a spdif input which I know last gen consoles have, optical cable is not included though with this particular amp. Highly recommended http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A2QLPJM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460605645&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=smsl+793ii&dpPl=1&dpID=41O67E4WHNL&ref=plSrch


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

headphonesonly said:


> this is a great amp and is only $63. It has a spdif input which I know last gen consoles have, optical cable is not included though with this particular amp. Highly recommended http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A2QLPJM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460605645&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=smsl+793ii&dpPl=1&dpID=41O67E4WHNL&ref=plSrch


huh that looks pretty cool. 
On another note how's the fiio E6? 
Was thinking of getting that since it's cheap and portable. 
Can probably make it work with a RCA adapter


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> I'm home most Tuesdays and Wednesdays at 1pm and I'm certainly employed and haven't been a student for a while. That's my "weekend" since I work through the actual weekend. As for FedEx, just have them route the package to a local FedEx Office location for free. Works every time for me when I'm not going to be home for delivery. I can pick them up at my local location any time before 9pm, plenty of time to make it there from my office across town.


 

 Unfortunately there are no Fedex Offices in Poland aside from the regional offices which I guess aren't what I'm looking for.
 Well Axel, You're an exception but still, 5 out of 7 days of the week You're not at home so it's just like working Monday-Friday excpt it's Thursday-Monday.
 I on the other hand, work on the evening shift, 2pm till 10pm, so the couriers had *a lot *of time to show up in the morning but decided to call me at 1pm when I was already in the subway.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have the same problem with UPS. DHL is best because I need to walk some 30m to the depot. 
 UPS however leaves nothing nearby or at a neighbour and they usually come at 2pm and the last delivery they do is finally at 6 in the evening where I can appear. I always dread when something is shipped and the tracking number shows UPS. ._.


----------



## Yethal

I even took a day off work today to be 100% sure I'll be able to receive the package.
 Fedex: LOLNOPE ur gettin it on Friday.


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> huh that looks pretty cool.
> On another note how's the fiio E6?
> Was thinking of getting that since it's cheap and portable.
> Can probably make it work with a RCA adapter


smsl amp is still better overall. Better sq, more powerful amp. It can easily power something like the beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm. Check out this review https://youtu.be/N-47_1TU9HY


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Unfortunately there are no Fedex Offices in Poland aside from the regional offices which I guess aren't what I'm looking for.
> Well Axel, You're an exception but still, 5 out of 7 days of the week You're not at home so it's just like working Monday-Friday excpt it's Thursday-Monday.
> I on the other hand, work on the evening shift, 2pm till 10pm, so the couriers had *a lot *of time to show up in the morning but decided to call me at 1pm when I was already in the subway.


 
  
 Nothing nearby? Damn. I even Googled to see how available FedEx locations were in Poland before commenting, but I guess they don't quite work the same way over there as they do here.
  
 Most of the deliveries in my area happen after 3pm because of where I live in relation to the FedEx and UPS centers. Sometimes I get home around 5pm and my packages still haven't been delivered. Gotta love parcel services.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Nothing nearby? Damn. I even Googled to see how available FedEx locations were in Poland before commenting, but I guess they don't quite work the same way over there as they do here.
> 
> Most of the deliveries in my area happen after 3pm because of where I live in relation to the FedEx and UPS centers. Sometimes I get home around 5pm and my packages still haven't been delivered. Gotta love parcel services.


 
 I filed a complaint to Fedex. It was supposed to be a next day delivery but it's been three days already. I'm kinda disappointed in the company. If I wanted something that was slow and unreliable I would've asked for Polish Postal Service.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What about me? I sleep during the day, and couriers won't leave packages unless I sign for them 99% of the time. I'm constantly missing packages, and/or have to go pick them up. It's damn annoying.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

headphonesonly said:


> smsl amp is still better overall. Better sq, more powerful amp. It can easily power something like the beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm. Check out this review https://youtu.be/N-47_1TU9HY


just watched the video and I'm definitely interested in those. Just needing optical looks alot more convenient as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok, so I tried the Out Of Your Head software for a bit. I dunno if it's the trial or my laptop, but it clips and distorts badly.

When it was working fine, I was able to test some of the presets, and I can say that IF you can get it to work perfectly, it is indeed the real deal. Whereas Dolby headphone, SBX, etc only really give you one algorithm each (though you can argue that the various room modes in DH sounds very different from one another), This software gives you many that mimic sound systems, from simple 7.1, to 7.1 out of $36,000 speakers, and how the audio would sound off them (though I think you have to buy each preset or something).

In any case, some presets are better than others (some sounding very Dolby Headphone Room 3, which is yucky), but in many of them, the surround effect is spot on.

The software is a bit iffy, and I can't exactly adjust volume, but I'd be interested in a full version. Not that I'd pay for one myself, since it's PC only, doesn't work with the X7 FWIH, and doesn't seem to pla nice on my laptop either. Still, this could prove a valid alternative for those with good dac/amps that aren't gaming specific.

Wish I had a full version that doesn't cut the audio off in 2 minutes for the other presets, having to restart them over and over again, which is a pain.


----------



## Yethal

You're not gonna believe this.
 I filed a complaint yesterday and asked for the package to be delivered yesterday. I got a reply "Complaint accepted, please send the package to the recipent". I thought the Fedex employee put me in the cc tab. Unfortunately this is not what happened. Instead of sending the email to the couriers she sent it to me only. Fedex didn't realize their mistake until I called them and asked them what happened. They apologized and forwarded the email. And then another call another email and so on. After 5 hours of emails and calls I finally got through to the manager of the Warsaw office who told me that is is just not possible to deliver the package because appearently the biggest ******** delivery service in the world doesn't have enough couriers.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> You're not gonna believe this.
> I filed a complaint yesterday and asked for the package to be delivered yesterday. I got a reply "Complaint accepted, please send the package to the recipent". I thought the Fedex employee put me in the cc tab. Unfortunately this is not what happened. Instead of sending the email to the couriers she sent it to me only. Fedex didn't realize their mistake until I called them and asked them what happened. They apologized and forwarded the email. And then another call another email and so on. After 5 hours of emails and calls I finally got through to the manager of the Warsaw office who told me that is is just not possible to deliver the package because appearently the biggest ******** delivery service in the world doesn't have enough couriers.


 
  
 So what's going on with Fedex ? I heard a lot of bad things .


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Ok, so I tried the Out Of Your Head software for a bit. I dunno if it's the trial or my laptop, but it clips and distorts badly.
> 
> When it was working fine, I was able to test some of the presets, and I can say that IF you can get it to work perfectly, it is indeed the real deal. Whereas Dolby headphone, SBX, etc only really give you one algorithm each (though you can argue that the various room modes in DH sounds very different from one another), This software gives you many that mimic sound systems, from simple 7.1, to 7.1 out of $36,000 speakers, and how the audio would sound off them (though I think you have to buy each preset or something).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea man, to me the software is way better than SBX and DH.  I think you get the sound clip and distort is right when the 2minutes is over, just don't let that 2minutes message popup.  
 Yea you buy the software for $149, then pay $25 for each preset that you want.  Some preset speakers are $300,000+/
  
 Yea it didn't work with my G5 either, but I found a solution to make it work.  Basically I just downloaded JRiver Media Center 21 software, and it comes with a Virtual Audio driver.
 Then I route my G5 sound through the JRiver virtual driver, then in the OutOfYourHead software, I choose the Jriver Media Center virutal audio device, and it works.
 It just doesn't work directly with the Creative G5.
 But damn, the surround sound is really amazing, especially when you pair it with a good headphone / ciem.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> So what's going on with Fedex ? I heard a lot of bad things .


 
 One-day delivery took them four days already.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

How are the SMSL M3s compared to the SMSL Sd793-ii?


----------



## Yethal

They're here!


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Say would any of beyerdynamics headphones like the 770,880 or 990 be a good companion to the hd 558?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I figured out what was causing my clipping issue with the Our of your head software, I had the channels at 6.00db on the last two sliders (don't remember raising those). Put them to 0, and no more clipping. Also figured out that I have to put my audio device back to my default, since turning on the software causes it to jump to it as the default device, which isn't necessary (as long as in the software, you put the output as the device you're using, in my case, the Xonar U3).

So I re-downloaded Red Faction: Armageddon (very good for testing virtual surround due to destructible and rebuildable environments that I can constantly test audio cues with.)

I'll see about adding some notes for every preset, though the 2 minute limit on each preset stinks.


----------



## rudyae86

Anybody has played the Battleborn Beta?
  
 In the Sound options, appearently you can adjust the placement of the speaker set up.....kind of like the Razer surround software...

 Have not really played with it but would like to hear some feedback from any of you who have played it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So, just a little testing of the Out Of Your Head software (I'm just gonna call it OOYH from now on). 

Note: For best results, it is DEFINITELY better to use a neutral-ish/flat signature headphone, because the presets have an EQ-effect on the sound, and may be a bad match with your colored headphones. The software is essentially recording how certain speaker setups sound like, so having a bass heavy headphone playing a bass heavy recorded preset would obviously not be ideal in giving you a rough idea how a preset really sounds. I don't have a flat headphone in my stable, so I'm basically only judging surround cues, and general traits.

Some presets are pretty bad, some are really good. Problem is that volume is inconsistent between each preset, and I can't adjust on the fly. I have to switch windows, and manually adjust volume (I was wrong before, default device HAS to be the software, while you have to adjust volume of whatever the output is, which isn't possible with typical volume controls.) Obviously not gonna be an issue for external amps with an analog volume pot, but for those with digital controls (i.e. Creative X7), you're stuck adjusting volume through the sound devices, which is an absolute PITA. Though apparently the X7 and the software don't work anyways.

The default gaming preset on the OOYH isn't that great, and doesn't throw surround cues anywhere near as well as some of its best presets or stuff like SBX, THX TS, or Dolby Headphone. That means you'd have to find another preset that you like best and pay EXTRA for it.

Unfortunately, I don't have the patience to compare the presets at length due to the 2 minute hard cap (in which then I'd have to switch windows and re-toggle the preset). I did hear a few I think would be really good, but honestly, I don't hear anything that would make me jump out of SBX or DH. I'm sure there are some solid presets that may be just as good (surround cues are DEFINITELY top notch on some presets), if not better, but the hassle of using it atm is a bit too strong for me.

*That being said, for people without gaming soundcards, amps, I think this may be worth looking into, especially if you have something like a Schiit stack, and don't feel like adding a Xonar U3 in between your PC and your optical Modi just for gaming purposes. Bear in mind, this is obviously PC only.*

Thank you guys who told me about this. It's always fun to hear new virtual surround DSPs. This software is like a bunch of them.

This thing is a huge step above Razer Surround, as far as software surround DSPs go. If I didn't have an internal Recon 3Di on my laptop whenever I'm not tethered to the X7 at home, I can totally see myself buying this software IF there wasn't small devices like the Xonar U3, which gives me Dolby Headphone for stupid cheap, with zero hassles. The U3 is like $20, whereas the OOYH is a lot more, not to mention paying for whatever preset you feel you want. Oh yeah, and unless they figure out how to let us adjust volume easily without an external amp, this thing is too frustrating to use. If one of you figured that out, let me know.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> So, just a little testing of the Out Of Your Head software (I'm just gonna call it OOYH from now on).
> 
> Note: For best results, it is DEFINITELY better to use a neutral-ish/flat signature headphone, because the presets have an EQ-effect on the sound, and may be a bad match with your colored headphones. The software is essentially recording how certain speaker setups sound like, so having a bass heavy headphone playing a bass heavy recorded preset would obviously not be ideal in giving you a rough idea how a preset really sounds. I don't have a flat headphone in my stable, so I'm basically only judging surround cues, and general traits.
> 
> ...


 
 I just remembered something.....
  
 And I'm sure someone maybe knows about this but the people that worked on OOYH said they were going to test this software for gaming purposes as well.....they were asking for testers to try it out. I got a message about it a while ago and completely forgot about it until now.
  
 Well the whole point of this comment is that its possible that they are still working on something that could be used for gaming without it being so much hassle like OOYH.
  
 I will need to look for that message and ask them a few questions about it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It definitely has potential. If they get all the kinks ironed out, this could be one of the best gaming solutions on PC.


----------



## Yethal

AFAIR, when you buy the software you get one preset for free with it.
  
 And they are working on the gaming preset, I was part of the beta program. Supposedly the main difference between regular 7.1 and gaming presets is the much lower latency, that's why it used a dedicated driver (different from the regular OOYH driver)


----------



## PurpleAngel

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Say would any of Beyerdynamics headphones like the 770,880 or 990 be a good companion to the HD 558?


 
  
 If you already have the HD558 and looking for better headphones.
 I would say to check out the Soundmagic HP150 (closed) or HP200 (open).


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

purpleangel said:


> If you already have the HD558 and looking for better headphones.
> I would say to check out the Soundmagic HP150 (closed) or HP200 (open).


 I'm not looking for a upgrade so much as something different and more portable with a closed back for my hand portables. 
Hear some good things about these and they would definitely fit my budget better, would probably replace the pads with the ones from the DT770. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000XT8JTM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460844119&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=m+audio+studiophile+q40


----------



## lenroot77

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I'm not looking for a upgrade so much as something different and more portable with a closed back for my hand portables.
> Hear some good things about these and they would definitely fit my budget better, would probably replace the pads with the ones from the DT770.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000XT8JTM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1460844119&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=m+audio+studiophile+q40






Very different sound from hd558's, closed and a short cord w/extension if needed.


----------



## Yethal

I've spent the weekend with the Shure SRH1840. I'm not going to post a review or an initial impressions post since it's already been done by people better at this than I am. Instead I'm going to post a list of things one can buy in Poland for a price equivalent to the price I've paid for the SRH1840.
 ​ *Things you can buy in Poland for a price of Shure SRH1840*​ 
Mid-range gaming PC
Ten pairs of Creative Aurvana Live!
45 litres (12 gallons) of vodka
12 hookers
A used German car (believe it or not)
36 grams of weed
120 packs of Marlboro cigarettes
Five nights at Intercontinental hotel
Six grams of cocaine
  
 I'd welcome all of those things with open arms (except maybe for ten pairs of CAL like, who the hell needs ten pairs of the same headphones?). However, I chose to buy Shure SRH1840. And You know what? *It was damn worth it.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are a valid alternative to the K70x line, but I feel they need the price to match the mid-level performers. $500 is too much.

It's been too long though I can't say where it stands today for me.


----------



## Yethal

Mine cost about 475 USD and that includes customs fee so I think they could be bought for ~400$
  
 EDIT: Found them on eBay for 420 dollars.
  
 Difference between SRH1840 and AKG K712 is about 50$ in Poland so I wouldn't consider it that much of an overcharge.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

yethal said:


> Mine cost about 475 USD and that includes customs fee so I think they could be bought for ~400$
> 
> EDIT: Found them on eBay for 420 dollars.
> 
> Difference between SRH1840 and AKG K712 is about 50$ in Poland so I wouldn't consider it that much of an overcharge.


Do you own any other Shure headphones or are these your first?


----------



## Yethal

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Do you own any other Shure headphones or are these your first?


 

 These are my first. Why do You ask?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

yethal said:


> These are my first. Why do You ask?


just curious about the brand since a few people recommended them if I wanted something similar to my HD 558s.


----------



## Yethal

mrkingdomhearts said:


> just curious about the brand since a few people recommended them if I wanted something similar to my HD 558s.


 

 If You're willing to spend so much on them then by all means, go ahead. But really, really think about whether You want to buy such an expensive pair of headphones in the first place.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Random question but I've been wondering for a few years now, why does everyone talk about competitive FPS games whenever there's talk about headphones for gaming. 
There's other types of games people play that could require something abit different in terms of sound for more immersion instead of positional accuracy.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

yethal said:


> If You're willing to spend so much on them then by all means, go ahead. But really, really think about whether You want to buy such an expensive pair of headphones in the first place.


I don't know if I would go for the top of the line model but something like the SRH840 seems like a reasonable investment


----------



## Yethal

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I don't know if I would go for the top of the line model but something like the SRH840 seems like a reasonable investment


 
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/shure-srh840
  
 Reviews seem to be favourable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 1840 and 1540 sound quite different. I wouldn't give Shure a 'house sound' at least from the two I've heard.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Random question but I've been wondering for a few years now, why does everyone talk about competitive FPS games whenever there's talk about headphones for gaming.
> There's other types of games people play that could require something a bit different in terms of sound for more immersion instead of positional accuracy.


 
  
 I do not think the issue of headphone surround sound ever really comes up, accept when it comes to FPS gaming.


----------



## rudyae86

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Random question but I've been wondering for a few years now, why does everyone talk about competitive FPS games whenever there's talk about headphones for gaming.
> There's other types of games people play that could require something abit different in terms of sound for more immersion instead of positional accuracy.


 
 Its still something that you would want, even in a non competitive FPS game. It becomes more apparent when we talk about virtual surround sound in general.

 You still want that positional accuracy in other games while also getting that boomy sound for more immersion.....keyword here is Immersion.
  
 I use the Fidelio X2 as my all arounder from music, to casual gaming and even competitive gaming.
  
 When I really want to go a bit more all out I use my K7XX
  
 and when I want that slightly more edge, and usually is depending on the game, I use my HD598.
  
 I have more headphones but those are the ones I currently use with more frequency.
  
 Heck, I even use the HD598 for movies and I am quite happy with its sound signature.

 It really doesn come down to personal taste but if being competitve is all you want and dont care about immersion...then a pair of Ad700X or Q701 is all you need and probably only care about.


----------



## Change is Good

Man do I love me some Dark Souls. The lore, attention to detail, hidden secrets, difficulty, co-op, pvp. It all blends in perfectly in a game. Long gone are the days of genuinely difficult games that don't hold your hand, giving waypoints, bullet/damage sponge enemies, and filler fetch quests. The souls games don't do that, taking an old skool approach, which is why I appreciate this series so much. Bravo to From Software. Seems like a brilliant end to the Dark Souls saga and can't wait to see what they are working on next (sci-fi themed supposedly).


----------



## Yethal

Imagine a Renessaince themed prequel to Bloodbirne set in a twisted version of Venice.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I th





purpleangel said:


> I do not think the issue of headphone surround sound ever really comes up, accept when it comes to FPS gaming.


I think stuff like horror games would benefit as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Plenty of games benefit from virtual surrund. Say an action game, where you are looking for secret items. Some games, these secret items make a distinct sound. You can hear which direction the sound is coming from and find the item that much easier.

Virtual surround is literally an extra layer of immersion for any game that supports it properly.


----------



## Shimomo1

Hello everyone, 

I'm thinking of buying the V-moda boompro microphone and the Earforce DSS amp. I've looked on this guide (and elsewhere) but haven't found a diagram detailing how to connect everything to an xbone. I understand that the DSS doesn't except chat inputs so I'll have to connect the microphone directly to the xbone controller, but I've heard I'll also have to connect the headphone cord to the front of the DSS. The v-moda mic comes with a splitter that splits the audio and mic cord but it doesn't look like everything would reach. If someone could just point me in the direction of a guide (preferably with pictures) of how to set everything up I'd be very grateful.


----------



## Yethal

shimomo1 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm thinking of buying the V-moda boompro microphone and the Earforce DSS amp. I've looked on this guide (and elsewhere) but haven't found a diagram detailing how to connect everything to an xbone. I understand that the DSS doesn't except chat inputs so I'll have to connect the microphone directly to the xbone controller, but I've heard I'll also have to connect the headphone cord to the front of the DSS. The v-moda mic comes with a splitter that splits the audio and mic cord but it doesn't look like everything would reach. If someone could just point me in the direction of a guide (preferably with pictures) of how to set everything up I'd be very grateful.


 

 Don't buy the DSS. The complexity of the setup would be overwhelming.
  
 Xbox > Optical > DSS > headphone end of the V-Moda microphone for game audio
 Xbox Controller > 3.5mm splitter > 3.5mm cable > aux in port on the DSS for chat audio
 Xbox Controller > 3.5mm splitter > mic port of the V-moda microphone for microphone
  
 At this point, think about buying a Mixamp Pro TR. It uses USB for chat on Xbox. Much more convenient that the cable cluster**** You'll end up with if You decide to buy the DSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Seriously. Only get the DSS if you don't find yourself using a mic often.


----------



## KhaledM

How is the Ad700x compares to the ad2000x in terms of soundstage and imaging?


----------



## Hansotek

Alright guys, I have a bit of exciting news. The good folks at Taction have given us a _*world premiere first look *_at their new Open Back Kannon Gaming Headset, using their haptic feedback technology (The headphone physically vibrates with the bass. You can read more about the technology _here_). 
  
 Here's a first look at the prototype:
  

  
 I nearly wrote these guys off as a gimmick when I saw their booth at CanJam, but they were really nice, so I decided I'd give their phones a shot. What could it hurt, right? Once I put them on, I instantly realized it was a lot cooler than I had initially assumed. I said, "Hey guys, these would probably be pretty good for gaming." Well, it just so happened that they had a clip of a Halo video on their demo computer, and let me say it was freakin' awesome! Jaw dropping, even. 
  
 Their tech actually gives location-specific vibration feedback based on the sound image... much like you would get in real life. They've lab-tested this and found that it improves gamer's reaction response times by 15 to 40%, based on the individual.
  
 I ran into these guys again at AXPONA over the weekend and they offered to lend me the new open back prototype until Wednesday so I could give you all the inside scoop on this headphone before their Kickstarter ends (the Kickstarter is for the closed back version, but the feedback technology is still the same). 
  
 I'll be demoing these out tonight and posting impressions. I got in about an hour with them last night after getting back from the show, and they were a heck of a lot of fun. Let me know if you have questions or whatever, and I will try to answer them as best as possible!


----------



## Shimomo1

Ok. So if I buy the Mixamp Pro TR, I will only have to plug the mixamp optical and usb into the xbox, the headphones with vmoda mic into the Mixamp (with no y-splitter correct?) and I won't need to run a 3.5mm to 3.mm aux cord from the mixamp into the xbone controller?


----------



## rudyae86

hansotek said:


> Alright guys, I have a bit of exciting news. The good folks at Taction have given us a _*world premiere first look *_at their new Open Back Kannon Gaming Headset, using their haptic feedback technology (The headphone physically vibrates with the bass. You can read more about the technology _here_).
> 
> Here's a first look at the prototype:
> 
> ...


 

 Very interesting yet the prototypes look like the M50 and AD series of headphones......
  
 I can see what they are aiming for but seems like it isn't something new considering the games they were trying out.

 Now if they showcased it with some VR games, then we are talking about something different.
  
 As for the headphones vibrating, yeah cool..but my headphones sometimes vibrate or have a punch at times but I dont think I would want that all the time I suppose. Might tickle your eyes to often and annoy you....
  
 Also, it seems to direct this headphone to "bassheads" and that has me a bit concerned as to the overall sound signature...

 But I do look forward to reading your impressions on this headphone and see how it works out with games like CS GO, BF4 or other games that are fast pace and/or competitive....maybe try some racing games if you are into them.

 I would use bass heavy headphones only with racing games by the way, just because the warmer sound signature does favor engine/car noises better.


----------



## Hansotek

rudyae86 said:


> Very interesting yet the prototypes look like the M50 and AD series of headphones......
> 
> I can see what they are aiming for but seems like it isn't something new considering the games they were trying out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Hi Rudy,
  
 You can totally use this with VR, or whatever. The tech is image-based and totally compatible with dolby headphone, etc. I'll try and plug it in to our VR headset at work before I send it back, if I can.
  
 You can turn the vibration function on and off, if that is a legitimate concern. There is a little switch to adjust it.
  
 The product is targeted to bassheads for obvious reasons, but interestingly, the vibration function allows you to get that sensation independently of the sound signature. On sheer frequency response alone, this open pair veers a bit warm of neutral but not much. With the sensation engaged, it seems much bassier, but the FR doesn't actually change.
  
 Still gathering impressions, though I will say, these are super fun with EDM and soundstage is better than I expected.


----------



## Yethal

shimomo1 said:


> Ok. So if I buy the Mixamp Pro TR, I will only have to plug the mixamp optical and usb into the xbox, the headphones with vmoda mic into the Mixamp (with no y-splitter correct?) and I won't need to run a 3.5mm to 3.mm aux cord from the mixamp into the xbone controller?


 

 Yup. Easiest Xbox setup possible.


----------



## Hansotek

A few quick early impressions on the open back* Taction Kannon* prototype:
  
 - This KANNON setup is FUN. @Evshrug and @Stillhart will back me up on this, but I was absolutely giggling while playing around with this the other night. Guns, explosions, etc. cause vibrations that really intensify and immerse you in the experience. I actually even noticed the vibration of the Sony DS4 controller even more when I had these on. I mean it really intensifies things.
  
 - My playing felt faster and more fluid with the Kannon. I think the imaging-specific vibrations mixed with the surround sound from the Creative X7 helped me to get my bearings faster in FPS play. Control felt tighter. I found myself over-rotating less often on turns and attacking targets faster. It's amazing the impact those little sensory brain cues can have. Based on my experience, I would say their claims of 15-40% improved player response time are pretty legit.
  
 - While you can FEEL the bass, the sound signature itself is still pretty well balanced, overall. Nothing really odd or out of place here. 
  
 - Soundstage is very solid and open sounding. No complaints here.
  
 - The headphone is light and comfortable overall. Great for long sessions.
  
 - The vibration function can easily be switched on and off and is volume dependent. The sound of the unit itself is very non-fatiguing, so if you need a break, simply clicking it off or turning down the volume does the trick.
  
 - The vibrating haptic technology responds to all bass. Even from the chat audio. If your friends have noisy mics and/or deep voices, they will make the headphone vibrate as well. Regular voices on good mics will not cause an issue, but it is worth mentioning this little quirk. Obviously, this is a non-issue in solo play.
  
 - The headphone comes with an attachable unidirectional boom mic for chat. It is split at the bottom with separate plugs for mic output and headphone input. The headphone input also works for sending the mic output on the X7 via the 3.5mm jack on the right, however, the mic sound quality isn't as good that way. I'm sure there is a way to connect the mic cable and headphone cable to separate outputs on the X7, but I haven't quite figured it out.
  
 - The cable also splits off to a USB for the power supply for the vibration circuit. The battery lasted maybe 4 hours or so, with moderately loud play. Of course, you can also leave it plugged in all the time, too. Taction included all the necessary cables, etc. for convenient setup.
  
 - Also, if you like EDM, this thing is great. Super fun to feel all the vibrations when the deep bass hits!
  
 Overall, I would say that I'm pretty sold on this headphone. I definitely want to get a pair of these for my personal gaming setup... I actually prefer these to my Fostex Th-X00. Like I said, they seem to tighten up control quite noticeably, and even more than that, they are just a heck of a lot of fun.
  
 There are still a few days left on the Kickstarter for the closed back version, which offers the entry price of $299 ($200 off MSRP, IIRC). Personally, I will be waiting for the open back version, as I prefer open back designs overall. But if you're on the fence, I would say it is absolutely worth a try. IMHO, YMMV, etc.
  
 Like I said before, let me know if you have any questions about these. I still have these for one more day, so I'm happy to answer whatever questions you guys are wondering about on the open back Kannon.  
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Evshrug

I got interested when I saw how they seemed based off of the Audio Technica AD700x, which were super highly regarded as the "budget God-Mode gaming headphone" and my first full-sized open headphones. The AD700 were super light, super comfortable once I bent the arches so that the pads rested flush instead of clamping from the bottom edge of the pads into my jaw, were very modest about power requirements, and totally agreed with Mad that they were like God-Mode = ON with surround because their imaging was uncanny. The one and only thing that made me decide to keep my AKG Q701 instead of the AD700, was the bass was light and rolled off quickly, and though the sound was very clear and interesting I just didn't find them very engaging for music. I could hear bass notes, but something like thunder rumble was anything but "thunderous."

So, did Tacticon make an AD700 with, as Mad would say, "actual bass?" I spent a fair amount of time grilling Hansotek from the perspective of a former AD700 owner. 
Is it comfortable and lightweight?
"Yeah, I'd say it's comfortable."
And lightweight?
"It's pretty light, I guess."
I ask because the AD700 was one of the lightest fullsized headphones, and that really contributed to the longest headphone marathons I've ever had, and I want to know if the tactile motors add a lot of weight.
"I mean, I don't notice the weight."
How's the bass extension?
"The bass is pretty good, it plenty of bass and it seems to reach down low."
Well are they like bass cannons that bleed over the mids?
"Ah, no, not really." (Hansotek dies at this point, and I resurrect him. We're playing Destiny, and to be honest I die most often among us because I play PvE like a PvP rusher).
Are the headband "wings" connected? I saw your picture, it was a popular mod to rubber band the "wings" together and it looks like there's something like leather connecting the "wings"?
Hansotek mumbles something I couldn't make sense of.

^As you can see, there was a reason Hansotek wanted to do another night of solo play last night to get a better feel for how the headphones sounded, hahaha! Still, those were my most pressing questions, so I thought it was worth pressing Hansotek for answers  It seemed clear that this wasn't like a large headphone driver that caused physical sensation _because_ the bass moved the air a bit, but there are little motors in different parts of the pads that actually cause a directional physical sensation. I swear I did let him play a bit, and he definitely did laugh gleefully at unexpected moments. It was obvious that the Kannons were something new to him, and he was having fun with that.

In the comments of the Taction Kickstarter, the headphone developers said they chose to make their debut with a smaller, closed headphone first, because they wanted to start with the most versatile design that could be used as an on the go portable as well as just at home. I can respect that, in a sense it makes the most sense to provide the most value for the cents spent, because the new tech forces the headphone straight up to the mid-fi price bracket.

I just... Closed headphones don't get ME excited, the AD700 reborn is what I'd be more looking to have.


----------



## Yethal

hansotek said:


> A few quick early impressions on the open back* Taction Kannon* prototype:
> 
> - This KANNON setup is FUN. @Evshrug and @Stillhart will back me up on this, but I was absolutely giggling while playing around with this the other night. Guns, explosions, etc. cause vibrations that really intensify and immerse you in the experience. I actually even noticed the vibration of the Sony DS4 controller even more when I had these on. I mean it really intensifies things.
> 
> ...


 

 Can it be powered off the X7 USB Host?


----------



## Hansotek

yethal said:


> Can it be powered off the X7 USB Host?


 
  
 I will try it out tonight and let you know. I didn't think to try it out.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> So, did Tacticon make an AD700 with, as Mad would say, "actual bass?" I spent a fair amount of time grilling @Hansotek from the perspective of a former AD700 owner.
> Is it comfortable and lightweight?
> "Yeah, I'd say it's comfortable."
> And lightweight?
> ...


 
  
 Ah, okay. You were a little far off mic for some of that conversation, so I didn't hear everything you said. Also, there was a lot going on in the game during that convo, lol! I can clear up those gaps.
  
 Without a scale handy, I would say the weight is pretty similar to my Stax SR-404 Limited. It's not heavy like a planar or anything. It is also pretty well distributed. Overall, the comfort is quite good.
  
 On the bass extension, sweeps show a fairly even response down to about 40Hz, a slow and steady roll off until about 30Hz and then a steeper fall off until about 15Hz. With the vibration active, I can detect sensations down to 10Hz.
  
 The bass doesn't bleed over the mids at all. The haptic vibrations allow you to get all the sensations of physical bass without altering the frequency response. The sound itself is slightly on the warm side of neutral.
  
 And yes, there is a leather band above the wings. Here's a picture:


----------



## Evshrug

Pretty sure most here (myself included) haven't had a Stax SR404 to get an idea of the weight. Got any other comparisons? 12 oz of beer or something? Lol

For anyone else wondering, I DO have a vintage Stax, and I got to try the SR-007 at RMAF. Electrostats seem to have the opposite tendency of Planars, in that they are uncommonly light weight IMO. Light weight is good.

And that's good to hear about the bass... The AD700 was not even response down to 40hz, so maybe it's based on an AD900 or Tacticon achieved some magic?


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> Pretty sure most here (myself included) haven't had a Stax SR404 to get an idea of the weight. Got any other comparisons? 12 oz of beer or something? Lol
> 
> For anyone else wondering, I DO have a vintage Stax, and I got to try the SR-007 at RMAF. Electrostats seem to have the opposite tendency of Planars, in that they are uncommonly light weight IMO. Light weight is good.
> 
> And that's good to hear about the bass... The AD700 was not even response down to 40hz, so maybe it's based on an AD900 or Tacticon achieved some magic?



Well, just because it looks like one headphone on the outside doesn't mean it is necessarily the same on the inside. It's a prototype. It may have a retuned driver or a different one altogether. It may not be the final piece at all. Anyway, I don't have the AT, so I couldn't tell you. A lot of OEM parts are sourced across different headphones, it is the nature of the business. I think making further assumptive leaps on my part would be irresponsible.

I don't have a small scale to weigh it. It's really not heavy. I bet the Google machine could tell you how much the SR404LE weighs, but I can ask the Taction guys for you to get a more precise measurement.


----------



## Evshrug

True the insides definitely are different, and as a prototype the outsides could change as well. However... The outside of the AT headphones defined a lot of why the headphone was comfortable to me.

Anyway thanks for the impressions and info.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

3D Wings are an automatic no go for me, even with whatever strap they're using.


----------



## rudyae86

hansotek said:


> Well, just because it looks like one headphone on the outside doesn't mean it is necessarily the same on the inside. It's a prototype. It may have a retuned driver or a different one altogether. It may not be the final piece at all. Anyway, I don't have the AT, so I couldn't tell you. A lot of OEM parts are sourced across different headphones, it is the nature of the business. I think making further assumptive leaps on my part would be irresponsible.
> 
> I don't have a small scale to weigh it. It's really not heavy. I bet the Google machine could tell you how much the SR404LE weighs, but I can ask the Taction guys for you to get a more precise measurement.


 

 Hmmm interesting....
  
 So after reading your initial impressions I must ask this simple question....
  
  
 The sound signature, to what headphone do you think it sounds similar too compared to the prototype?

 You said that you would prefer the Prototypes to the TH-X00 and that says a lot honestly.

 So are they closer sounding to lets a Fidelio X1 or X2, HD598, Q701, K712, etc, etc... you should know by now what headphones I should be referring to lol.
  
 Of course, the emphasis in bass for the prototypes couldnt be compared to said headphones.

 Also, I kind of want to try that vibration on a headphones, especially if it gives you a sense of immersion and cues. Though, I wonder how long I could put up with something vibrating on my head?

 My ears and around my ears are sensitive when it comes to tickels and movements lol thats why I usually prefer a somewhat clampy headphone like the HD598.


 Have you tried using them playing games like BF4? In which there is a lot of chaos going on? BF4 is probably one of the games in which a headphone does have a bit of a hard time giving you directional cues since everything is blowing up lol. Thats why when I feel playing competitively, I switch from my X2 to the HD598


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having experienced tactile bass rumble motor enablers before, they're fun, but ultimately nothing that will change the landscape of gaming or headphone audio. It's an extra feature/gimmick that will be fun to use, but ultimately is not going to be anything huge that everyone needs to have.

Skullcandy Skullcrusher = terribad. Mainluy because the sound signature was ass. Worst example
Skullcandy Crusher = very good example, solid headphone. Well balanced, if a little too subdued in the treble range
Sony Pulse headset = never tested, but people love the bass out of that tactile bass motor

I really enjoyed the Crusher myself, but the gimmick wears off after a few days, and then I just wanna go back to my big boy headphones.


----------



## Hansotek

rudyae86 said:


> Hmmm interesting....
> 
> So after reading your initial impressions I must ask this simple question....
> 
> ...




All good questions. Overall sig would probably be closest to the 712 of those you mentioned. It may be based on that same OEM driver as the AT, but I have no experience with it, so I cannot very well say. The frame appears to be the same, as you pointed out, but that means very little, relative to the driver.

I watched some Battlefield surround DSP videos (Dolby vs. THX, etc.), and those were awesome. Really it's quite clear, unless you have constant bass-heavy in-game music. For example, it would work better for Battlefield than Destiny. Still works well with Destiny though, too. BF just works better.


----------



## Evshrug

Joining the HD800 club! The new HD800*S* model has really helped 2nd hand prices go down, amazing deals on Amazon Warehouse et me get a headphone I wouldn't have considered before due to price.
Excited.


----------



## Yethal

Weren't You supposed to save up for a wedding?


----------



## KhaledM

Just to let you know guys, I noticed that Amazon removed that kind of warning about the Philips Fidelio X2, it doesn't say that some people are having some issues with the headphones anymore.


----------



## Zyker

Hrm... so, I've been thinking of getting an Elgato HD60S game capture card to record/stream my PS4 games.  For some reason, I'm having a real brain fart on how to set it up with the X7/K7XX/ModMic setup that I'm using... any help?


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Hrm... so, I've been thinking of getting an Elgato HD60S game capture card to record/stream my PS4 games.  For some reason, I'm having a real brain fart on how to set it up with the X7/K7XX/ModMic setup that I'm using... any help?



Elgato has an analog audio in afair so just plug the cable from Your audio device to the card. If You're using the x7 just use the what u hear virtual device.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Weren't You supposed to save up for a wedding?




Yis. But a number of factors occurred, besides the years of want:
Tax refund
New job
Wedding shaping up under budget
Crazy good deal
Did manage to sell some other audio stuff, tho now I should sell more 
Amazon, so I have a number of days to "undo" if I feel I made a mistake.

Damn, giving the review Vibro one last audition... Don't want to return it to ZMF! Lol!


----------



## FightinJim

mad lust envy said:


> Having experienced tactile bass rumble motor enablers before, they're fun, but ultimately nothing that will change the landscape of gaming or headphone audio. It's an extra feature/gimmick that will be fun to use, but ultimately is not going to be anything huge that everyone needs to have.
> 
> Skullcandy Skullcrusher = terribad. Mainluy because the sound signature was ass. Worst example
> Skullcandy Crusher = very good example, solid headphone. Well balanced, if a little too subdued in the treble range
> ...


 
  
 First, you are absolutely right about the problems with these prior efforts by other groups.  I agree wholeheartedly.  
  
 That said, the Taction stuff is really different from those early efforts by other companies.
  
 Here's some real-live data (below).  As you can see, a prior effort (brown dashes)  is compared with a prototype of the Taction Kannons (black line).  Prior efforts used off-the-shelf transducers that produced essentially "one-note bass."  The crushers, for example, let you feel 70+/- 10 Hz.  It's a bit of gimmick but it's the best that can be done with off-the-shelf transducers.  It's not our thing.  It has nothing to do with us.
  
  

 It took me many years to develop the custom transducer that goes into the Kannons.  It can deliver 20x more power than anything built before, and it can evenly render a much wider range of frequencies - about three octaves worth (black line versus brown dashes).  Prior efforts could only render a few notes.  And the Taction transducer is silent so it doesn't corrupt the acoustics. 
  
 So, I don't blame you for knocking prior stuff.  I'm right there with you.  
  
 But -- and this is key -- the Taction transducer has literally squat to do with those prior transducers you rightfully dismiss.  We are dedicated to making serious headphones that faithfully render the full spectrum of sonic experience - both the acoustic and tactile.
  
 I know you've been burned before, by gimmicks.  I have too.  I know it's hard to believe this can be different.  But look at that freaking plot up there.  It IS actually different.
  
 I invite you to withhold judgement based on on other people's technology, and to actually try ours. I believe that you, like many others, will be very pleasantly surprised. 
  
 Sincerely,
 Fightin' Jim
 (aka S. James Biggs, Ph.D. CTO, Taction Technology)


----------



## Hansotek

FWIW, I was not a fan of the Skullcandy headphones. I wouldn't even bother talking about the Kannon if it was another Crusher.


----------



## Evshrug

^oh, is that the James? Wish I'd been at AXPONIA to demo! Dave & Brian got me curious, checked out the cool stuff for me since I couldn't make it.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> ^oh, is that the James? Wish I'd been at AXPONIA to demo! Dave & Brian got me curious, checked out the cool stuff for me since I couldn't make it.




Yeah, I told him he should get in touch with you if they do a product tour. We missed you in Chicago!


----------



## Luckbad

hansotek said:


> A few quick early impressions on the open back* Taction Kannon* prototype:
> 
> ...


 
  
 I got to try these babies out at the same time as the closed, and there's a reason I was barking about them in this thread a while back.
  
 The Taction Kannon Kickstarter is only a few days away from closing, and it's not quite funded yet.
  
 If you want to see the open version, show them support and grab the closed or the opens will never come to pass!
  
 They also let you return them if you don't like them for a full refund, so there's really no risk.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> Having experienced tactile bass rumble motor enablers before, they're fun, but ultimately nothing that will change the landscape of gaming or headphone audio. It's an extra feature/gimmick that will be fun to use, but ultimately is not going to be anything huge that everyone needs to have.
> 
> Skullcandy Skullcrusher = terribad. Mainluy because the sound signature was ass. Worst example
> Skullcandy Crusher = very good example, solid headphone. Well balanced, if a little too subdued in the treble range
> ...


 
  
 Okay, so the Taction guys apparently took this comment^ seriously, and they want to let it ride.
  
 Shortly after this exchange, I got a text from @FightinJim asking if I'd be willing to hang on to the headphones for a bit so I could (and I quote), "Impartially answer the question of whether it's something you still like after a few days of use."
  
 So:
 1. I gotta hand it to these guys, they are scrappy as hell, lol! And... 
 2. Thanks, MLE, for getting me a few more days with this toy. 
  
 I rocked the Kannon a bit more last night, this time playing The Division. The God mode is strong with these, indeed. Especially with a game like The Division where there isn't as much music. You really get all the nuances of the distant explosions, grenades, gunshots, etc. It is quite hard for enemies to get the drop on you, and like I said the other day, my playing just seems faster and tighter. Calibrating to the right direction and locking on to enemies is quicker and buttery smooth. I think those ambient vibrations just help your internal compass a little bit somehow. I can't really explain the physiology behind it, but my precision kills were way, way up last night. That is one thing I am going to continue to watch and report back on.


----------



## AxelCloris

hansotek said:


> I can't really explain the physiology behind it, but my precision kills were way, way up last night. That is one thing I am going to continue to watch and report back on.


 
  
 Oh snap, so you're telling me the next time we play I'm in danger of losing the highest number of precision kills between us? You're better at the run and gun than I am, so if I lose my slow and methodical precision kills what do I have left? :'(


----------



## Hansotek

axelcloris said:


> Oh snap, so you're telling me the next time we play I'm in danger of losing the highest number of precision kills between us? You're better at the run and gun than I am, so if I lose my slow and methodical precision kills what do I have left? :'(


 
  
 I'm pretty sure I'm not better at _anything_ than you when it comes to playing video games. 
  
 That being said, I like the sniper rifle gunplay a lot better in The Division. Normally, I get about 30% precision kills (whereas Destiny is more like 10-15%), but last night was like 75%... it might have been a coincidence, but my crits were up the night before playing PVP Crucible in Destiny, as well. Seemed that the trend was statistically significant enough to report.
  
 I'm still approaching it with a bit of skepticism, but there might be a correlation between the physiological effect of the Kannon headphone on my brain and my ability to lock-on to a precision shot quickly. I think a good part of it has to do with the speed of target acquisition. I find I am over-correcting less often. By eliminating some unnecessary movement, I'm able to get shots off more consistently on stationary targets before they start moving again. Since it is easier to hit a target that is sitting still vs. a moving one, precision kills are way up. That is my theory, at least.
  
 Either way, I was straight-up steamrolling enemies last night, hahaha!


----------



## NamelessPFG

So there's _another_ headphone Kickstarter about to wrap up soon, huh?
  
 Here's hoping Taction can get the financial traction they need in those last few days, especially since Ossic's Kickstarter just wrapped up a few hours ago.
  
 What I'd actually like to know is if the two groups could eventually collaborate on something, native personalized 3D audio with a tactile transducer that doesn't suck. Then we'd really be getting somewhere instead of having to pick and choose between the two!


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

How well does the mixamp work in terms of being a headphone amplifier compared to other DAC amp combos around the same price?


----------



## Evshrug

Hansotek,
I totally could see correlation for twitching towards the right direction by instinct, faster with the physical sensation, but unless you're making use of twitch-> auto aim, there's no way the sound will help your fingers have more fine motor skill to twitch to the center of body mass, aim down sight, and move your thumb Juuust enough and pull the trigger at juuuuust the right time.

What probably IS happening, is you're aiming more boldly and confidently, perhaps anticipating head height (like lots of skilled players do), perhaps being more engaged/more adrenaline/more focus, and just moving faster with better timing to let auto aim do the rest. Anything else could only be attributed to practice paying off and you just getting better


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> How well does the mixamp work in terms of being a headphone amplifier compared to other DAC amp combos around the same price?


 Most dedicated amps for the same price as the Mixamp will have 2x-4x the power. A DAC/Amp combo, like the FiiO E17 for $120, will still be a little more crisp and more powerful by 2x or more.


----------



## Hansotek

evshrug said:


> Hansotek,
> I totally could see correlation for *twitching towards the right direction by instinct, faster with the physical sensation*, but unless you're making use of twitch-> auto aim, there's no way the sound will help your fingers have more fine motor skill to twitch to the center of body mass, aim down sight, and move your thumb Juuust enough and pull the trigger at juuuuust the right time.
> 
> What probably IS happening, is you're aiming more boldly and confidently, perhaps anticipating head height (like lots of skilled players do), perhaps being more engaged/more adrenaline/more focus, and just moving faster with better timing to let auto aim do the rest. Anything else could only be attributed to practice paying off and you just getting better


 
  
 You basically summarized the point I was trying to make in the first half of your first sentence. I wasn't trying to imply any of that other stuff, and if you read it that way, I apologize for being unclear. I'm getting to the right spot faster. Less overshooting the target. The crosshairs are in the right place when I zoom in, and I am able to take the shot quicker.


----------



## gsmatt

The sketchy marketing in the past few pages in this thread is making me never want to trust Taction Kannon.


----------



## AxelCloris

gsmatt said:


> The sketchy marketing in the past few pages in this thread is making me never want to trust Taction Kannon.


 
  
 ...the what now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It all does sound like advertising. Anyone who reads the last few pages, it sounds like the Taction Kannon headset thread complete with bullet points.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

What headphones does everyone use for there handhelds like the vita or 3ds? 
I typically use my 558s and they sound pretty decent actually.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^KSC75/Sportapro = makeshift KSC35 (Using the KSC75 clips with Sportapro drivers.)

It's comfy, never moves off my ears, and I can throw it in my pocket. Also it doesn't block out external noise, so I can hear my surroundings (I don't like noise isolation).

Once in a blue moon, I'll use the Creative zJAM I recently reviewed, because of wireless convenience.


----------



## Luckbad

[Actually, nevermind. I don't want to crap this thread up with petty bickering.]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Wait, I never said not to talk about that product. I simply meant that the last few pages sounded like an ad.

This is a thread to talk about such products, after all.


The only one I'd be willing to test out is the AD700 looking one, as I'm tired of testing closed headphones.

I hate 3D wings, but for the sake of the rest of you guys, I'm not against having impressions on the headphone.


----------



## Hansotek

gsmatt said:


> The sketchy marketing in the past few pages in this thread is making me never want to trust Taction Kannon.


 
  
 Lol. It's not marketing dude. They gave me a product to test at AXPONA and asked me to post my impressions about it relative to gaming. Is it the perfect "be-all, end-all" headphone? No. Not at all. But, I like it for gaming. Quite a bit actually, as you have read. 
  
 I don't want to come across the wrong way, so if it makes you feel better, I can post some of the negative impressions as well, but they don't have much to do with gaming.
  
*So with that, here are some negatives: *
  
 1. I don't particularly care for the vocal presentation on the Kannon. My bar is mostly set by the HiFiMan planars, and it doesn't really come close to those. They work much better with non-vocal EDM. The vocals are fine for gaming, but I'd choose a different headphone for music with a lot of singing. Really, if I buy a pair (and I probably will), I will use them about 90-95% for gaming only.
  
 2. The frequency response lacks a little bit of sparkle up top. This is fine for gaming, as it makes it non-fatiguing, but I like my headphones a little crispier, generally speaking. I usually don't notice too much because, on the other end of the spectrum, the bass is making up for it on the engagement front.
  
 3. This one is on gaming, though I already mentioned it: if your friends have a lot of low frequency noise on their mics, the headphone will vibrate when you are in chat with them. It will still react to the game, but you will get a little layer of constant vibration below that. Same can happen with really bassy music in the game, you will get vibration from both the music and the gameplay. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it can be a little annoying. Again, _I did mention this already_. I doubt there is any way to isolate it without adding a second complex DSP into the headphone. IMO, not a dealbreaker for me, but it might be for some.
  
 4. It's not a detail monster, but it's okay in this regard. I find the Fidelio X1/X2 to be marginally more detailed for a headphone at the preorder price point of $299. That being said, it's not dull either. If it had a touch more sparkle up top, it would likely feel more detail forward. Inner resolution is just okay, but you can pretty much say that about everything else that's under $500 at some level as well. If you want ambient micro plankton and dead-perfect timbre, you should look elsewhere.
  
 5. I'm with @Mad Lust Envy on the wings. Hate them. Every once in a while they will pull out a hair (Always on the right side! Ouch!) Other than that, they are fairly comfortable.
  
 6. There are couple build quality issues with the prototype, but it is just that, a prototype. The mic jack came loose and vibrates and part of one of the logos came unglued. This is all feedback I would generally give directly to the manufacturer, since this isn't the final build of the headphone and they have plenty of time to correct it.
  
 If I think of anything else, I will let you know before I have to ship the headphone back.
  
 I'm not the first person to like this headphone. Go read what Chris Martins said about it in HiFi+. Go ask MoeDawg140 about it. Jude even took time to call it out in the CanJam impressions thread. And I told the Taction guys the same thing I am going to tell you now: I'm not sure I would use this headphone much for music (I have the HD800, T1, HE-6, HE500, HE400, a couple of Stax Lambdas and a Westone W60 for that), but the Kannon has SICK potential for gaming.
  
 Does that all make sense? In the future, all you have to do is say, "Hey Hansotek, that all sounds great, but what about some negative impressions, too." and I will gladly oblige. I'm not trying to hide anything here. I already pointed out the one negative that pertained to gaming in another post.
  
 My #1 priority on Head-fi is helping people find gear they like. I have no vested interest in Taction beyond the fact that I like their product. Plain and simple.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> Wait, I never said not to talk about that product. I simply meant that the last few pages sounded like an ad.
> 
> This is a thread to talk about such products, after all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you want to test it out, I'm sure they would love to send it to you. They told me they wanted your feedback specifically on it, but hadn't had any luck getting in touch with you. 
  
 Sorry if it seems like I'm over-hyping the product. I am enjoying it immensely. Hopefully, my last post added some balance. I'm a little off this week because I've got some frustrating stuff going on in my personal life outside of Head-fi. Not fun.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll pm him soon, so they can get with me on that.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> It all does sound like advertising. Anyone who reads the last few pages, it sounds like the Taction Kannon headset thread complete with bullet points.




I asked you a lot of the same questions when you post about a new headphone. And you've been excited about new headphones before (like... Two years back).

To someone not you or me that didn't know Hansotek has been around for years and talks about many different headphones/amps/etc, to a stranger it could seem that talking up a headphone could be for the intent of selling something. But we know not all reviews/impressions are about slamming a product... There's another forum/website full of cynical people for that. My best memories of this thread are from the days you (MLE) talked about how you were enjoying the Denon D7000, Q701, HE400, Annies, Slyr1, Monster DNA Pro, Phillips X2, etc... When nobody is sharing their excitement about their audio, the thread is mired in repeat questions and PC problems.

Here, for two days, Hansotek has been sharing impressions on something fresh that almost nobody has heard, it's new, and apparently fun to use and listen to. I'm curious. And I know YOU get that, which is why I'm replying to you. I'm probably going to sound like a Sennheiser evangelist when the HD800 arrives this weekend (at least, I hope everything's ok and I'm that impressed!).

I listen to music, but I always come back to games. It's the primary filter that I end up judging how much I like headphones. I hope that once I finally have something new to talk about (almost two years with the K612 now, 6 with AKG), other people visiting this thread are encouraged to share how cool their headphones are while gaming! Build THAT kind of community back up, exploring personal entertainment. That would be cool, and way more fun to keep visiting.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What headphones does everyone use for there handhelds like the vita or 3ds?
> I typically use my 558s and they sound pretty decent actually.




Tbh, my phone is pretty much my portable gamer  I work in a loud place with people talking all day, so I like IEMs to kinda shut them up and let me zone in on my entertainment during my breaks 

I've always wanted to try the HD558, but keep stopping myself because it would be a side or downgrade from what I have, and just delay an upgrade. Now I've finally bought my second Sennheiser since my PX-100 in freshman college! Maybe I'll pick up some HD558/598 next spring for the curiousity of it.

I would use my PX100 if I had new pads (the RadioShack replacements sucked), I do use some Koss KSC-75's, some FiiO EX-1's I won in a sweepstakes, RHA S500i that are always in my jacket pocket, and when I want to feel like I'm getting away with some awesome luxury I bring my CIEMs by CustomArt.

I wish I could use my V-Moda M-100 more, because they're fast to put on and take off and sound pretty great on-the-go, but my pads are too stiff and shallow for me to wear longer than 30 minutes. Some people don't have a problem with the pads, but for me they get tough like gum that's been chewed for 30 minutes . Maybe I would use them more with the XL Pads, those felt immediately and surprisingly more comfortable at RMAF, and I wore them for several minutes with no problems.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

evshrug said:


> Tbh, my phone is pretty much my portable gamer  I work in a loud place with people talking all day, so I like IEMs to kinda shut them up and let me zone in on my entertainment during my breaks
> 
> I've always wanted to try the HD558, but keep stopping myself because it would be a side or downgrade from what I have, and just delay an upgrade. Now I've finally bought my second Sennheiser since my PX-100 in freshman college! Maybe I'll pick up some HD558/598 next spring for the curiousity of it.
> 
> ...


I really can't compare how the 558s are compared to what you have but on Amazon they go for $100 new these days so your not down much in investing.
Think I'll get the shure SRH840 with velour pads for my handhelds since it's it's kinda annoying using open headphones in public and I don't have anything closed back.


----------



## Fegefeuer

558 are below 100 Dollars in Germany right now and for that price they are really damn good.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I really can't compare how the 558s are compared to what you have but on Amazon they go for $100 new these days so your not down much in investing.
> Think I'll get the shure SRH840 with velour pads for my handhelds since it's it's kinda annoying using open headphones in public and I don't have anything closed back.



Oh, I wasn't comparing to the HD558 either! Just listed what I have, lol!
I probably would recommend IEMs on the go, they're kinda perfect for that, but if you wanted a closed headphone for using on-the-go I would recommend researching the Beyerdynamic T50p.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I should try the KSC 35 or 75,seems like a great solution for portable use and there pretty cheap.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Oh wow I really scored, going to be looking through my brother in laws house in a bit since he said he got a $300 amp or DAC for free and he didn't like it. (knowing him he probably used beats) 
Ask him if he's willing to give it to me and said if I find it sure.


----------



## eltorrete

hello, do you think would be the denon d7100 a good choice for gaming and see movies? currently I have a V-MODA Crossfade Wireles and I would like to have something better


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I should try the KSC 35 or 75,seems like a great solution for portable use and there pretty cheap.




Just don't forget to bend the clips the way I posted on their review. It makes a drastic difference.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

mad lust envy said:


> Just don't forget to bend the clips the way I posted on their review. It makes a drastic difference.


that on the first page?


----------



## Fegefeuer

eltorrete said:


> hello, do you think would be the denon d7100 a good choice for gaming and see movies? currently I have a V-MODA Crossfade Wireles and I would like to have something better


 
  
 Do you really need closed? The 7100 is battered by the D7000 which you can't get for humane prices as of now, same with the D5000. Get the Massdrop Purple Heart pseudo-closed if you can manage to. Forget about the AH-D7100.


----------



## eltorrete

fegefeuer said:


> Do you really need closed? The 7100 is battered by the D7000 which you can't get for humane prices as of now, same with the D5000. Get the Massdrop Purple Heart pseudo-closed if you can manage to. Forget about the AH-D7100.




I really need one closed and one open, closed when this my wife and my dauhhters are awake and open for when everyone is asleep to hear if my daughters wake. 

Did you indicated that what would be best option? I have to reach a second-hand d5000 and d7100. 
¿Tx-00 would be the best option?


----------



## lenroot77

Did anyone here play alien isolation? I've heard good things about it. How was the sound?

It's on sale for 15 bucks with all the dlc on psn.


----------



## eltorrete

lenroot77 said:


> Did anyone here play alien isolation? I've heard good things about it. How was the sound?
> 
> It's on sale for 15 bucks with all the dlc on psn.


 
 PC version great sound very immersive


----------



## lenroot77

eltorrete said:


> PC version great sound very immersive




I actually picked it up on steam around Christmas but I ended up selling my gaming PC. So I'm a bit tempted to check it out on ps4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm constantly getting clipping and pops with the Out Of Your Head software during heavy action. Sigh. Both on my Creative soundcard, and on the Xonar U3.


----------



## Hansotek

mad lust envy said:


> I'm constantly getting clipping and pops with the Out Of Your Head software during heavy action. Sigh. Both on my Creative soundcard, and on the Xonar U3.




I ran into the exact same problem! Did it start sort of subtly and grow gradually more and more intense for you over maybe a minute or two? I was worried it might be a hardware problem at first, but hardware tested fine otherwise. Must be something with OOYH. Maybe darinf has a fix???


----------



## dakanao

What is the best gaming headphone for around 60 euros? It needs to have big, deep, spacious earcups that easily fit around smaller ears and great soundstage/detail retrieving/imaging and neutral bass.

I don't care if it's open or closed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hansotek said:


> I ran into the exact same problem! Did it start sort of subtly and grow gradually more and more intense for you over maybe a minute or two? I was worried it might be a hardware problem at first, but hardware tested fine otherwise. Must be something with OOYH. Maybe darinf has a fix???




Yes, exactly. It's fine at first, but the longer you use it, the worst it gets.I honestly thought it blew out my drivers.

The software doesn't alot of dynamic sounds going off at once. It sounds overworked.


----------



## neilmanalo

how does the x2 compete against the sony ma900?


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> I'm constantly getting clipping and pops with the Out Of Your Head software during heavy action. Sigh. Both on my Creative soundcard, and on the Xonar U3.


 
 You get the Out Of Your Head software to work with Creative soundcard like the X7?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> You get the Out Of Your Head software to work with Creative soundcard like the X7?




No. The only way I can do that is using the Xonar U3 to send PCM optical out to the X7. And I don't think I was getting the DSP to work this way, just stereo. I'll have to re-test later. Unfortunately, the games I have aren't well suited for testing. Even Red faction: Armageddon doesn't have a consistent sound that I can test well.

It'd be SO much easier with console games. Ah well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can confirm that OOYH does work with the Xonar U3 sending a PCM signal to the X7's spdif input, and it retains OOYH virtual surround (make sure DH is turned off on the U3, for obvious reasons).

Also, even thought I thought it possible, DH doesn't work on the U3 with OOYH in bypass mode. I'm sure that is because the OOYH software outputs 2 channels to whatever your output device is, so neither my internal soundcard capable of THX TS, or the U3 with DH won't work while OOYH is the primary device. This makes it impossible to compare OOYH quickly with any virtual surround, as you'll have to quit out the game, and change primary sound device. Not an issue specific to OOYH, this would occur regardless.

It's easy to compare DH with SBX because the U3 can easily toggle what it's sending to the X7 (Toggling Dolby Digital or PCM spdif output on the U3 software, followed by turning SBX off when the U3 is in PCM (with DH turned on), and turning SBX on when the X7 is being fed Dolby D), so testing is relatively painless, and you don't have to back out of a game.

Also, the OOYH's presets have much more in common with DH than THX Tru Studio or SBX, so those who prefer the latter two may not really care for OOYH's presets outside of the generic gaming one, which I feel is lacking in surround cues. OOYH has some really good presets like Acoustic Zen which do surround well, and sounds DH-like.

So if you're used to stuff like the Mixamp, OOYH is very viable for PC use.

I was told by Darin Fong that if you get distortion or whatnot (like what I was getting earlier), lower the volume/gain on the sound devices. I lowered the OOYH to 80, Xonar to 80, AND each preset's volume to -4.63 (for testing), leaving the X7 as the volume control itself. Haven't tested much, but I haven't heard craziness yet.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> I can confirm that OOYH does work with the Xonar U3 sending a PCM signal to the X7's spdif input, and it retains OOYH virtual surround (make sure DH is turned off on the U3, for obvious reasons).
> 
> Also, even thought I thought it possible, DH doesn't work on the U3 with OOYH in bypass mode. I'm sure that is because the OOYH software outputs 2 channels to whatever your output device is, so neither my internal soundcard capable of THX TS, or the U3 with DH won't work while OOYH is the primary device. This makes it impossible to compare OOYH quickly with any virtual surround, as you'll have to quit out the game, and change primary sound device. Not an issue specific to OOYH, this would occur regardless.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yea the OOYH software didn't work directly with my Creative G5 either, so that to confirm it doesn't work directly with any of the Creative soundcards / dac / amp.
 But it does work indirectly by going through another device such as your Xonar U3, in my case, I just use the JRiver virtual audio to route the sound to OOYH.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

So it looks like you guys are experimenting with using virtual surround soundcards for gaming. Well I'd say you guys have your work cut out for you. I've been using virtual soundcards for years but almost never game.

But who knows, you guys might have more luck than me?

The following is all free and probably worth about as much as it costs, but here goes:

1. Install VB Cable. Configure the virtual sound device that appears for 8 channel input and output (7.1 channel surround).

2. Install VSTHost.

3. Install ASIO4ALL.

4. Install ConvolverVST. Note these instructions on the ConvolverVST website and configure your computer accordingly:


> 2. convolverVST requires libsndfile and libfftw DLLs to run. For many host applications, these must be in the execution path. To add the them to the execution path, right click on My Computer in Windows Explorer, select Properties, the Advanced tab, and the Environment Variables button and append ;C:\Program Files\Convolver\Convolver (or the path to which you installed Convolver in the first step) to either the User or System Path variable using the corresponding Edit button:




5. Copy this config text file to anywhere you can remember, and this config sound file to C: (yes, the root directory).

6. Run VSTHost and click Devices->Wave... and set Output port to ASIO4ALL. Also set the sample rate here to 44100 (important!) and the Buffer to 512 samples.

7. Click the ASIO4ALL config icon that appears in the notifications tray of the taskbar 

8. In the config panel that appears click the spanner button to show advanced options.

9. Light up the buttons for each VB audio cable INPUT you have but not the OUTPUT. Light up the button for the output device you want to plug your earphones into. Set the ASIO buffer size here also to 512 samples.
E.g.


10. In the VSTHost window, press Ctrl+N to load a new VST plugin. Look for ConvolverVST.dll where you installed it and double-click it to load it as a plugin. In the plugin icon that appears, click the circled button to open its config panel:


11. In the configuration dialog that pops up, drag the "Partitions" slider all the way to the right for "16 partitions" (decreases audio delay), then click the circled button.

Then in the loading dialog that appears, change the file type to Config File

and choose and select the config text file I provided in (5).

12. The plugin will now prompt you to reload it. Click the cross button on the plugin icon


And press Ctrl+N to load it again.

This should be the result


Now, any surround signal that gets sent to VB cable (you may set it as the default sound device) will be turned into a virtual surround signal for headphones via the convolution impulses I designed.

Good luck getting it to all work without a glitch though :rolleyes: If you do actually try any of the above you're welcome to post your questions here.


----------



## Yethal

That's... complicated. Wonder how it sounds though.


----------



## Joe Bloggs

yethal said:


> That's... complicated. Wonder how it sounds though.




Once you get started, with some work it can sound like anything you damn well want. It's a one way ticket to audio madness. 








...provided you get it all up and running. :blink:


----------



## bule1101

Hy guys,
  
 Im trying to use AKGs 712s with the V-moda (or that Beyerdynamic one) mic so i have only one cable.
 Do you think it will work if i use a Adapter?
 I have found this on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Female-Stereo-Headphone-Adapter-Wiring/dp/B01CTTH00C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461596890&sr=8-2&keywords=Mini+XLR+female+to+3.5mm
  
 Did anyone try that before? Is there any other way to mod K702s/712s?
  
 Thanks for the help


----------



## AxelCloris

bule1101 said:


> Hy guys,
> 
> Im trying to use AKGs 712s with the V-moda (or that Beyerdynamic one) mic so i have only one cable.
> Do you think it will work if i use a Adapter?
> ...


 
  
 Going off the description it'd probably work fine. Personally I'd grab this one.
  
 https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter
  
 Note that there is a short backorder with the Mimic Cables one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Joe, holy hell. I usually complain about configuring virtual surround on typical virtual surround capable soundcards, but damn, your stuff is a LOT more complicated. I'm gonna save the page, and try it out at some point.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I noticed the OOYH software has a mind of its own with my PC, where no matter what I do to lower gain on specific presets and save them, it will save them at completely different values, sometimes mismatched. Say, I want all channels at -4.29, I'll save, go back to the preset, restart the program, etc, and the values will be like at -3ish, with one channel being at 0, etc. It's been a product of frustration for me, so I told Darin I'm kinda over testing the software. Whether the software is the issue or my PC isn't the problem. I just don't have the patience personally to troubleshoot this anymore. My experiences with it have been good and bad, and I'm sure others will have better experiences. I just have some buggy ghost or something. Not to mention my laptop is on its last legs, and I don't feel its fair to Darin and you guys to review this thing with questionable gear.

I'll just stick to the simple external stuff.


----------



## Yethal

That's the price You pay for PC gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My internal Creative soundcard loves to default to stereo whenever I restart the computer, plug in headphones, or even sneeze in another room. The X7... those who follow that thread know the problems that thing has. So yeah, PC gaming can be a hassle at times. I can always count on the Xonar U3 though. That's a miraculous, affordable piece of kit. Never, ever had a problem with it.

Darin has assured me the gain issue is the software and will get it fixed, so at least there's still hope for OOYH testing in the future. I spent the better half of an hour trying to figure out why it was doing it. :/

You learn to appreciate simplicity. I guess that is why consoles are so popular. Plug and play, most of the time. PC stuff is always better in the end, but it can be a chore at times. All the tweaks, and drivers, updates, etc. It can be daunting, especially for those more on the casual side of things, that aren't about constntly tweaking.

I've been itching to upgrade my PC, but I'm waiting on Pascal and perhaps even the next Intel CPU line. That and I need a TV, lol. I'm displayless atm, other than the laptop screen. Thank god for its HDMI input, though the screen has never been great. (ghosting, IPS glow, super washed out colors, 60hz-80hz ugliness)

I miss my Panny plasma.

I was a display guy long before I became an audio guy.


----------



## Change is Good

Team NINJA's new alpha demo 'Nioh' is now available in the PS Store. Might check it out.


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> That's the price You pay for PC gaming.


 
  
 This is the price you pay for console gaming:
  

  
Oh and this too.


----------



## lenroot77

octiceps said:


> This is the price you pay for console gaming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What u don't spend a couple hundred bucks upgrading your PC every 2-3 years?


----------



## Change is Good

Simplicity is why I keep passing on the X7 and continue to opt out of PC gaming. I like my couch.


----------



## CaptSIow

I listened to the comparison video and I thought that THX sounded the best. The Dolby sounded like i was in a small room but the THX felt more outdoors and open.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> That's the price You pay for PC gaming.




But the outcome is, oh so glorious. Lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm all in for the PS4 Neo. I'm tired of my console games that run sub-30fps, with screen tearing and whatever other unpolished, underpowered nonsense we get.

If it weren't for exclusives and JRPGs mainly, I'd have done away with the PS4 and whatever consoles there are.

If the Neo can at last, AT LAST run games at the very least 1080p/30fps without those fps drops, it's worthwhile. I expect more than that, so I will be happy. Considering games will be optimized for bare PS4 as it has always been, this means, we can expect moderate improvements all around as long as you have a Neo.

I love how people think the Neo means that games will be badly optimizied on the basic PS4. News flash, they already are. Seen Bloodbourne at its 20fps drops? Yeah. That's not all the sudden gonna change. It just means demanding games like this will at least be more consistent and at the very least above 30fps at all times. The restrictions Sony put in place made it clear that games had to perform better on the Neo, at the very least. So no raising sliders and keeping performance the same with shinier graphics.


----------



## Change is Good

So will this new Hifiman be the next go to ~$100 headphone for gaming? I know it's (still) not what we are looking for in a true 400 successor, but being a flat/neutral open dynamic at that price may be worth recommending over the regulars now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's a dynamic, so I can't hold the 350 to the same pedigree as their planars.

The graph looks pretty good outside a strong 5khz section, which may be problematic.

Who knows how it sounds in actual practice. Soundstage may not be great, etc. Guess we'll know when people get their hands on it.

You know how I had to voice my disappointment in them focusing on thw wrong headphone, when we've been clamoring for an actual HE-450 for like ever now. Massdrop is listening though, which is a good sign for the future. I love my HE-400, and if MD can make a legitimate successor, and not these bogus ones that don't take after the original, I may become an audiophile again.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, I was going to share some similar thoughts in there but you beat me to it. Hopefully Massdrop will take heed to what you said.

I'm fairly confident it will be good for gaming, though. Soundstage may even be slightly bigger with it being a dynamic.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> So will this new Hifiman be the next go to ~$100 headphone for gaming? I know it's (still) not what we are looking for in a true 400 successor, but being a flat/neutral open dynamic at that price may be worth recommending over the regulars now.




From what I've read the he-300 became pretty bassy with different pads and a felt removal mod. Maybe the same will be true with these. 99 bucks shipped is pretty affordable. I'll probably check them out... Ship date isn't till August that'll be a long wait!


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I'm sure the first thing people will do is add some Focus pads. Definitely something to keep an eye on.


----------



## eltorrete

mad lust envy said:


> It's a dynamic, so I can't hold the 350 to the same pedigree as their planars.
> 
> The graph looks pretty good outside a strong 5khz section, which may be problematic.
> 
> ...


 
  
 What would be better for gaming? K712, K7xx, HE-400, HE-400i or HE-560
 non competitive and no online, only for my home.


----------



## imac2much

Hey guys, a month ago I asked for an SBX equivalent for the Xonar U3 - something cheap that can give me some VSS with optical out for my external DAC (Oppo HA-1). Seems like there aren't any cheap solutions but I know the Omni can send SBX via optical out. 

Since then I've leaned that the Omni uses software SBX as opposed to G5 and X7 which use hardware accelerated SBX via its internal multi core Axx1 processor. Do you notice any difference between the Omni and G5 purely for SBX? I will be bypassing the actual DAC. 

I really wish cheaper solutions like the G1 had optical out. I also have been following the thread and the recommendations for OOYH but I can't make it work consistently with my laptop. Lots of crackling and when it does work I don't like the reverb. It just doesn't seem like it's worth $150 to me. 

I've gotten so frustrated with Razer surround that I uninstalled it haha.


----------



## Evshrug

iMac,
I remember.
I guess the other option I didn't point out, was you can just buy the SBX software separately from creative, without any hardware. Then you can use pretty much anything that connects to your PC.

The whole "software vs hardware" debate is quite overblown. I've talked to Nameless about it, essentially the X-Fi series cards unlocked certain sound features in legacy games, but those games are all 10 years old now. And, no matter what DSP you use, it's still software being run on a processor... The difference is just is that processor on a separate device or one more task for our super-powerful-multi-core CPUs? Sound should be the same unless you're having trouble getting a clean output signal from your computer. Generally I recommend USB 2 ports on the motherboard (rear of the computer) or an optical port, NOT the ones that would be on the front of a computer case.


----------



## Evshrug

So, guys, I don't know if any of you saw the Newegg deal for a Turtle Beach DXL1 package for $21 free ship, and a $20 rebate, but I got one so I could try out the DSS2.

We didn't take the DSS2 seriously, but it's actually a pretty great device. First impressions:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/360_30#post_12538959

More to come after work.


----------



## imac2much

evshrug said:


> iMac,
> I remember.
> I guess the other option I didn't point out, was you can just buy the SBX software separately from creative, without any hardware. Then you can use pretty much anything that connects to your PC.




Thanks evshrug!
I'm assuming you're talking about the X-fi MB3 software right? I thought I read in this thread and the G5 thread that it will not decode 5.1 or 7.1 sound if the default device isn't 5.1 or 7.1. Thus it can only be set to stereo for my USB DAC. Or is that false and it should work even with the HA-1 or a Schiit stack?


----------



## Evshrug

imac2much said:


> Thanks evshrug!
> I'm assuming you're talking about the X-fi MB3 software right? I thought I read in this thread and the G5 thread that it will not decode 5.1 or 7.1 sound if the default device isn't 5.1 or 7.1. Thus it can only be set to stereo for my USB DAC. Or is that false and it should work even with the HA-1 or a Schiit stack?




That's a configuration question. I highly recommend going to creative's site and looking it up, just because it could be an easy answer. You know. As long as the game can output surround positional audio, the software should be able to make a headphone HTRF processed version. But read and be sure.

I bought an Omni before I heard of the software, so I've never gone back and looked.


----------



## imac2much

I just installed and tried out the SBX Blasterx Acoustic Engine Lite which supposedly is a reskin of X-fi MB3. I can confirm that it will only allow me to set the virtual audio device as stereo, making virtual surround worthless. Both my old Omni and Razer Surround can be set to 5.1 or 7.1. Guess I'll make do with Razer for now until I can score an Omni on the cheap. 

Sounds like the consensus is that there is very little difference between software based SBX with Omni or hardware based SBX with the G5.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

:eek:


Look, I know how people feel about CoD, but I'm gonna let you know right now. CoD4 is a masterpiece. CoD4 is literally what got me into headphone gaming. CoD4 is the reason why this thread even came to be.

A remaster of that game, is all that is needed to bring me back to online multiplayer destruction. Screw everything else. If you guys wanna play with me, this will literally be the game where you will find me in most of the time, once it is released.

So slick of them to reply to a nearly 2 year old tweet, with two emojis that say all that need to be said.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZX7UgzAHoE[/VIDEO]


----------



## Fegefeuer

G5's relevance will rise much higher if it gets DD 5.1 and/or DTS support. At least they fixed the bathroom SBX now.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> :eek:
> 
> 
> Look, I know how people feel about CoD, but I'm gonna let you know right now. CoD4 is a masterpiece. CoD4 is literally what got me into headphone gaming. CoD4 is the reason why this thread even came to be.
> ...




You could've been playing CoD4 MP the whole time considering how active it still is on PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't play games with mouse and keyboard, so I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer games. On consoles, gamepads are on an even playing field.


----------



## octiceps

It's an even playing field on PC too since everyone use keyboard and mouse. Playing FPS with a controller is very difficult.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

octiceps said:


> It's an even playing field on PC too since everyone use keyboard and mouse. Playing FPS with a controller is very difficult.




I have been playing and dominating FPS games with a controller for over a decade now. Even PC games that support it, I have beaten PC gamers who use KB&M, though they still have a clear advantage over me in general.

It's how I grew up playing games, and it's how I will continue playing games, until I die.

I don't like playing games with KB&M, and don't buy games that don't natively support gamepads on PC.

Oh, and I never learned how to type properly. I have to look at my keyboard as I type, and I use my index fingers to type. Not the standard asdf jkl; or whatever rest position. It's alien to me.

I've tried playing games in wasd positions, and I find it impossible for me.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> I have been playing and dominating FPS games with a controller for over a decade now. Even PC games that support it, I have beaten PC gamers who use KB&M, though they still have a clear advantage over me in general.
> 
> It's how I grew up playing games, and it's how I will continue playing games, until I die.
> 
> ...




Have you looked into hybrid controllers?

That's one of the great things about PC, freedom of input devices.


----------



## speakerlao

I'm trying to decide between *Ultrasone HFI-15G S-Logic Surround Sound *and the *Philips SHP9500.*
  
 Anyone have experience with both? I want the Ultrasone because they look far lighter and remind me on the PortaPro comfort, but I've heard the Philips are really good. Can get both for $60 atm.


----------



## AxelCloris

One big perk of the SHP9500 is the detachable cable. I have a V-Moda BoomPro microphone connected to mine and it allows me to use it as a great gaming headset for under $100.


----------



## Change is Good

What Axel said.


----------



## AxelCloris

Photo of the SHP9500 with the BoomPro attached.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

15G isn't low amp friendly. I'd risk going with the 9500, even though I haven't heard it. I love the 15G, but the 9500 is more enticing.


----------



## eltorrete

mad lust envy said:


> I don't play games with mouse and keyboard, so I'm at a huge disadvantage in multiplayer games. On consoles, gamepads are on an even playing field.


 
  
 Steam Controller play with a great alternative to the mouse / keyboard


----------



## thedoo

So I recently purchased a K712 Pro and I am looking to use the BoomPro mic with it, and saw the adapter here: https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter.
  
 Can someone tell me what I'm supposed to use for the Plug In and Plug Out? I believe it is 3.5mm TRS for Plug In and 3pin mini xlr(female) for Plug Out, but I wasn't 100% sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Steam controller looks like an abomination to me. I love my analog sticks.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I think it takes a bit of work/time and adapting to but I ain't got no time for that. I'm fine with sticks too.


----------



## eltorrete

I have both the steam controller and the xbox 360 and in less than a month Xbox has gone drawer. I have three daughters aged 7, 5 and 1  so not have much time


----------



## headphonesonly

axelcloris said:


> Photo of the SHP9500 with the BoomPro attached.


does this have good positional accuracy? Like the ad700x?


----------



## AxelCloris

headphonesonly said:


> does this have good positional accuracy? Like the ad700x?


 
  
 I haven't heard the ATH-AD700X as I loathe the Audio Technica wings. They never fit correctly so I haven't heard any AT model with them. The positional accuracy is decent but it's not earth shatteringly good. For $60 it's definitely worth it in my book.


----------



## speakerlao

axelcloris said:


> I haven't heard the ATH-AD700X as I loathe the Audio Technica wings. They never fit correctly so I haven't heard any AT model with them. The positional accuracy is decent but it's not earth shatteringly good. For $60 it's definitely worth it in my book.


 
  
 How good would you say they are on a scale of 1-10 for positional accuracy?


----------



## AxelCloris

speakerlao said:


> How good would you say they are on a scale of 1-10 for positional accuracy?




I won't assign a score but I'll say that I think they're above average for the budget-friendly open-back headphones I've heard.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> :eek:
> 
> 
> Look, I know how people feel about CoD, but I'm gonna let you know right now. CoD4 is a masterpiece. CoD4 is literally what got me into headphone gaming. CoD4 is the reason why this thread even came to be.
> ...




Doubt they will give us PC guys mod support .

But I do look forward to playing it. I have the OG COD MW but have not touched it in 2 years. 

Oh the memories. ...


----------



## speakerlao

rudyae86 said:


> Doubt they will give us PC guys mod support
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


 Modding support is in closed beta for BO3 on Steam at the moment, so you never know. We are suppose to be getting server browser, personal unranked dedicated servers, map editor, etc. They also released a standalone BO3 multiplayer version that only costs $15, so the current dev/studio are doing a lot of things right. It's a fun game, but it gets repetitive on PC, as everyone just plays TDM.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMIZ8Hmxg


----------



## Yethal

speakerlao said:


> Modding support is in closed beta for BO3 on Steam at the moment, so you never know. We are suppose to be getting server browser, personal unranked dedicated servers, map editor, etc. They also released a standalone BO3 multiplayer version that only costs $15, so the current dev/studio are doing a lot of things right. It's a fun game, but it gets repetitive on PC, as everyone just plays TDM.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMIZ8Hmxg


 

 Sooo, is the ProMod coming back?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Should be getting some money soon (birthday) and I was thinking instead of getting the SMSL amp, just get myself the magni 2 and modi 2 Uber versions. 
How would those be for both a pc and console setup?


----------



## speakerlao

I got my pair of SHP9500 delivered today and they're so dam comfy. I had the MA900 which is frequently regarded as one of the most comfy headphones ever, but these are much more comfy for me, personally. The earcup material is really weird. It feels like a super soft pair of silky, mesh, basketball shorts, as weird as that might sound. The headband I can't even feel at all if I extend the headband notch up from my snug fit. The only thing I feel are the cups slightly resting against the sides of my head. Been wearing them 3 hours so far, and no discomfort or listening fatigue at all. The clamp is perfect, and with some break-in, I see them becoming ear pillows.
  
 Another thing, the photos online don't do these any justice. They look far better in person. And when I opened the box, I was surprised how small they are compared to the perception I had from viewing photos online. They look bulky and heavy online, but they're rather compact and light for the size. I wish they were all blacked out, without all the white lettering and silver frame, but not a big deal.
  
 As for positioning and sound separation in games, it does well. They're not as good as the MA900 I had, but I would say they're on par or extremely similar with the HD598SE I also owned. If I had to rate them on my experience for sound positioning, with MA900 being a 10, as it's the best I've ever heard, I would give the 9500 a solid 6.7 rating.
  
 I think these get a lot of hype for a reason, but some people go way overboard with it saying they beat out $300+ headphones, as the MA900 I had are a few leagues ahead of these, but I grew bored of the overly thin sound signature of them. I think at $60, these are an absolute steal and I would recommend them over the more pricey 598SE.
  
 Is there even anything comparable at the price of $60? The only similar cans I've heard at this price were the AD500x when they were on sale for $55. Now, when people say lacking bass, the ad500x takes the crown. Those things sounded like they have no bass at all, as if someone moved the bass frequencies to 0 on the EQ. They also gave me fatiguing headaches with really short listening sessions, and the comfort was bad, as the cups just hung off my ears.
  
 Phillips really aced the balance of this headphone between price, comfort, and sound. GG


----------



## xcessive303

Will there be a gaming review for the Beyerdynamic DT1770 Pro's?


----------



## Imperatore

MLE is known to my partner as "that man on the internet who makes you keep spending money when we're saving for a house".  I have tried quite a few midrange headphones now and not been blown away by any really.  I do lean towards the X2 more meaning I probbaly appreciate more bass than what I get on the K7XX/12. 
 I know it becomes a case of diminishing returns but what is the sort of next level so to speak in the £500/$650 dollar range?  I hear PLanar Magnetic thrown around a lot.  I'm not really keen on closed back though.


----------



## thuNDa

Hi,
  
 I have something to share in the virtual surround department:
  
 I took some ingame footage(OBS, audiodevice set to an unused one, and recording only the mic with "what u hear"), comparing *Soundblaster Z*'s SBX-Surround, with the Surround equivalent of the *SoundblasterX G5*.
  
 "The Division" (apparently 7.1):

  
 "Battlefield 4" (apparently 5.1):

  
 "Crysis 2" (apparently 7.1)

  
  
 I also made one video comparing SB-Z's *SBX *vs. *BlasterX Acoustic Engine Lite*, with the latter also running on the SB-Z set to 5.1.


----------



## MohawkUS

Any specific reason past ergonomics that earphones aren't part of the discussion here? I've had good experiance with cheap in-ear vs on-ear headphones where positioning is concerned in the past.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

So I've been doing some research and the magni and modi setup seems really nice for PC and console gaming. 
What I'm curious about is how it would compare to a all in one solution like the SMSL sd793-ii for $70 compared to the $300 magni and modi Uber setup? 
Price isint a issue, just curious on how much of a improvement it would be since I've never had much experience with amps.


----------



## Yethal

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So I've been doing some research and the magni and modi setup seems really nice for PC and console gaming.
> What I'm curious about is how it would compare to a all in one solution like the SMSL sd793-ii for $70 compared to the $300 magni and modi Uber setup?
> Price isint a issue, just curious on how much of a improvement it would be since I've never had much experience with amps.


 

 Remember that M&M combo is stereo only, You'd need an additional device to act as a virtual surround processor.


----------



## MohawkUS

I'd sooner look into an Essence STX II than a stack of lower cost seperates provided your PC has a quality power-supply. I prefered my original STX to the Bifrost back in the day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thunda said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have something to share in the virtual surround department:
> 
> I took some ingame footage(OBS, audiodevice set to an unused one, and recording only the mic with "what u hear"), comparing *Soundblaster Z*'s SBX-Surround, with the Surround equivalent of the *SoundblasterX G5*.




Thanks for these. I'll give them a listen, and if they sound good, I'll put them up on the first page.

edit: First complaint for the first video (the only one I've seen so far). You should set the surround to at least 67% IMHO. 100% even better. Default I believe is 67% which is a proper gauge for surround. 33% is reducing the surround effect, and doesn't encapsulate the expectation of surround effect for others. So yes, if you can do these tests with surround at 67 or higher, I'd appreciate it. Especially on SBX Surround. I don't like the other one at all, which isn't doing rear surrounds properly.

edit 2: The second video, the SBX Surround really showcased how well it does rear cues at about 2:20. The G5 sounded horrible in rear audio cues.

edit 3: Video 3 (Crysis 2), there was almost nothing to get a hold of in terms of surround cues other than the steam at about 2:30 and some sparks. The BXAE surround doesn't sound like it's doing rear surround at all.

edit: 4, the last video didn't do much in the way of proper surround.

if you can, do tests the way you did the BF4 vid, teasting the surround with the plane's audio cue. A strong focal, consistent point is always best to showcase how well surround works on a DSP.


----------



## Change is Good

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So I've been doing some research and the magni and modi setup seems really nice for PC and console gaming.
> What I'm curious about is how it would compare to a all in one solution like the SMSL sd793-ii for $70 compared to the $300 magni and modi Uber setup?
> Price isint a issue, just curious on how much of a improvement it would be since I've never had much experience with amps.







yethal said:


> Remember that M&M combo is stereo only, You'd need an additional device to act as a virtual surround processor.




Yeah, if you're gaming on BOTH console and PC the Creative X7 will probably be a better choice.


----------



## Evshrug

G5 review is up:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/375#post_12549465


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

change is good said:


> Yeah, if you're gaming on BOTH console and PC the Creative X7 will probably be a better choice.


I don't care about surround sound though, tried it with the mixamp and it didn't do anything for me.


----------



## Evshrug

Friend of mine has the original USB Modi, he brought it over once so we could compare against a bunch of other DACs and devices that can be used as a DAC with a Line-Out. We concluded that the Schiit was definitely a solid product, but you pay a little extra for the attractive aluminum case and the funny Schiit name and marketing. I would be just as happy owning a Schiit M&M stack as well as a Creative Omni + Magni, or just a Creative E5/G5. I couldn't tell much sonic difference between purely the DACs that I wasn't sure could just be placebo, but the G5 is only $150 (or less on sale) and still did a great job powering the more demanding headphones I've tried (AKG K612, ZMF Vibro MKII), plus for gaming it has mic connections, EQ/DSP options, is smaller, and only needs one USB cable to a PS4 for audio, chat, and power.

I still think the battery, Bluetooth, and other features of the Creative E5 are well worth the $50 price difference, though if I was PC/Mac only and didn't care about portable audio I would just get the cheaper Omni. MrKingdomHearts' situation is pretty much the conditions that the G5 was designed for.


----------



## rebelx

For gaming purposes, how does the Razer Kraken Pro compare to the Bose QC15?
  
 Positional audio (and must be closed back) is probably the most important thing. I cancelled my Ossic X kickstarter backing because I read some negative reviews about how their tech was going to work, so I'm debating whether I should continue using a Bose headset for gaming or if I should use the Kraken Pro when I receive it?


----------



## Yethal

@DigitalRonyn - Man, where is the Dolby Digital update for the G5? And where is my promised patch to the X7 firmware? You promised these things months ago.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Good review Evshrugist,
  
 now if only we'd got AC3 support, then all would be well. Still a shame that the broken SBX was alive for several months. I bought mine in December. That's really unacceptable. Good for the G5 that I have a Titanium HD installed in my PC.


----------



## Imperatore

mohawkus said:


> Any specific reason past ergonomics that earphones aren't part of the discussion here? I've had good experiance with cheap in-ear vs on-ear headphones where positioning is concerned in the past.




I have no experience of them but I fail to see how something so small can offer anywhere near the experience of over or even on ear headphones. I've seen some that cost so much I wonder if they even sell any.


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> I have no experience of them but I fail to see how something so small can offer anywhere near the experience of over or even on ear headphones. I've seen some that cost so much I wonder if they even sell any.


 

 You'd be surprised how great can the earphones be when it comes to the positional audio. The best rendition of the Virtual Barbershop I've ever heard was on the Fiio EM3 which are 10$ earbuds. Really, try any binaural recording with earphones, You'll be blown away.


----------



## Imperatore

yethal said:


> You'd be surprised how great can the earphones be when it comes to the positional audio. The best rendition of the Virtual Barbershop I've ever heard was on the Fiio EM3 which are 10$ earbuds. Really, try any binaural recording with earphones, You'll be blown away.




Positional I could understand but not the rest of it.


----------



## Yethal

imperatore said:


> Positional I could understand but not the rest of it.


 

 Frankly, me neither. However, I've never owned a nice pair of IEMs so I can't draw any comparisons.


----------



## thuNDa

mad lust envy said:


> Thanks for these. I'll give them a listen, and if they sound good, I'll put them up on the first page.
> 
> edit: First complaint for the first video (the only one I've seen so far). You should set the surround to at least 67% IMHO. 100% even better. Default I believe is 67% which is a proper gauge for surround. 33% is reducing the surround effect, and doesn't encapsulate the expectation of surround effect for others. So yes, if you can do these tests with surround at 67 or higher, I'd appreciate it. Especially on SBX Surround. I don't like the other one at all, which isn't doing rear surrounds properly.
> 
> ...


 
  
 That's what i wrote in the G5 thread:
  
 ...but after testing more, i'm coming to the conclusion that they indeed changed the whole Surround algorithm, based on the rear-channels already mixed closer to the center in the windows mixer itself(what you can hear in the comparision video from "Elaoin" with surround *off*).
  
 So this thing works very different from SBX, and needs other Surround numbers in the control panel to be comparable.
 I always used ~30% with SBX, because it was the cleanest, with the best positional accuracy for me personally, and was also the setting in their own "FPS-profile".
  
 Now the FPS-profile in the "BXAE"* has Surround at 60%... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Needs more testing...
  
  
 *BlasterX Acoustic Engine
  
 EDIT: So i tested further, and it seems, that you need a twice as high Surround-setting with the G5.
 The higher the Surround-setting, the more the rear-channels get separated, which is kind of the opposite of traditional SBX-Surround.
 Anything under 60%, will have some weird "deaf-ear" affect, due to the rear-channels not being separated enough.
  
 Another Battlefield 4 comparision:

  
 And again "The Division" with various surround settings(times are in youtube):


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

So the G5 works as both a DAC and amp?


----------



## thuNDa

mrkingdomhearts said:


> So the G5 works as both a DAC and amp?


 

 Yes, CS4398 DAC, with TPA6120A2 AMP.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Hmm similar performance, all in one, alot cheaper then going for a modi Uber and magni setup, USB powered? 
Unless I find something better for my needs (going to look up the E5 since I play handheld games as well) I'll probably go with the G5.


----------



## Evshrug

imperatore said:


> I have no experience of them but I fail to see how something so small can offer anywhere near the experience of over or even on ear headphones. I've seen some that cost so much I wonder if they even sell any.



Ok, so think about it this way:
Balanced armatures (the most common drivers in IEMs) are like miniature planar drivers. They're very small and super efficient, so you don't need powerful amps to power them with authority and tight tight control. And then, the more expensive ones will have three or more (I've seen 12!) different BAs that are specially tuned to play a dedicated range of frequencies really well, so you might have one BA tuned to play highs, one for mids, and another BA (or Dynamic driver) play the lows. Sometimes different frequencies are separated to play through different tubes right up until they reach your ear canal.

The result of this is almost no bleeding-over effect, and stunning clarity and detail. Clarity helps your ear and brain distinguish between a sound that happened at a distance right in front of your face, and a sound that happened 20' away, slightly to the left. Imaging, the sense of a sound's direction, and separation, the sense of two different instruments not blending together into one, both are greatly enhanced by the clarity and resolution of a headphone.

If you get to hear one of the crazy, $1k+ IEMs, you'll realize they go toe-to-toe with summit-fi stuff like the HD800 or Stax SR-009. Do not underestimate the power of the inside earphones.





mrkingdomhearts said:


> Hmm similar performance, all in one, alot cheaper then going for a modi Uber and magni setup, USB powered?
> Unless I find something better for my needs (going to look up the E5 since I play handheld games as well) I'll probably go with the G5.



Yeah, the E5 sometimes goes on sale, slickdeals that ****!


----------



## MohawkUS

evshrug said:


> Ok, so think about it this way:
> Balanced armatures (the most common drivers in IEMs) are like miniature planar drivers. They're very small and super efficient, so you don't need powerful amps to power them with authority and tight tight control. And then, the more expensive ones will have three or more (I've seen 12!) different BAs that are specially tuned to play a dedicated range of frequencies really well, so you might have one BA tuned to play highs, one for mids, and another BA (or Dynamic driver) play the lows. Sometimes different frequencies are separated to play through different tubes right up until they reach your ear canal.
> 
> The result of this is almost no bleeding-over effect, and stunning clarity and detail. Clarity helps your ear and brain distinguish between a sound that happened at a distance right in front of your face, and a sound that happened 20' away, slightly to the left. Imaging, the sense of a sound's direction, and separation, the sense of two different instruments not blending together into one, both are greatly enhanced by the clarity and resolution of a headphone.




Has anyone tested something in between the bargain bin & flagship IEMs? Something which would stand toe-to-toe with the AD700 or K712 in pricing? At most you'd get 2 BA per channel in that range.

My original question was based on a $10 pair of throwaway Sonys from way back in the day. Immersion was very impressive as well as basic positioning, it took virtual surround and fullsized open cans to match it. It was bad in every other way, yet maybe a $200 pair wouldn't be nor would it sound as anemic as a recommended overear from the newer Realtek codecs.


----------



## Evshrug

Priced between $100 and $300? Uh, yeah, tons of IEM options in that price range, many 3-way IEMs. Not that 2-way are bad. I really liked the RHA lineup, even the $50 S500i was impressive but the T20i is awesome (plus 3 year warranty, tuning filter) at like...$229. Alclair Curve IEMs are awesome and quite comfortable. I haven't heard the Audio Technica IEMs around $100-$150, but apparently they are awesome as well, especially the red ones.


----------



## AxelCloris

You can also get custom IEMs starting at $200 and going up from there. If you want to game for hours custom is probably the way to go because they're so much more comfortable than universals.


----------



## Change is Good

So the only way to get Modern Warfare Remaster is by purchasing the new one? Damn. Looks like I'll be skipping yet another COD this year. I was kind of interested because COD 4 and World at War are what got me into FPSs.

If EA and DICE half-ass the new BF like they did Hardline and Battlefront I may have to give up on all shooters in general.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Or... you can buy the game, swipe the code for the remaster, and sell the new one. Done.

Unless Activision has it where you can only play the Remaster through Infinite Warfare's menu. Then it's an issue.

If you have Prime, the game is $67 atm. CoD4 is worth that, at least.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't want it THAT much to end up having to pay $40 for it. The market will be flooded with copies of the new one from people doing the same thing. Nah, I'm good.

I'm just hoping the next BF goes historic. There are way too many sci-fi right now, so my wishes for a 2143 title from DICE have come and gone. Something like WW2 or Vietnam would be refreshing.


----------



## Change is Good

Knowing Activision, they'll release a digital only version down the line after they are content with sales from the new one. They are just a cancer to gaming, honestly. They set marketing trends that other publishers mimic (looking at you, EA and Ubisoft) at the expense of gamers. It's why I don't even have the slightest interest in Overwatch.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Who'd have thought that WWII of all things would seem like a breath of fresh air in the FPS market? I still remember how overdone it was when BF1942 first released amongst all the Medal of Honor and Call of Duty at the time.
  
 At any rate, I'm wondering what the heck a CoD4 remaster would offer to PC gamers. We already have a version that runs at whatever resolution we want, allows for leaning and dedicated servers, supports mods, etc. until CoD:MW2 took all that away and got rightfully called out on all of it.
  
 If anything, it's more for getting CoD4 on the PS4 and Xbox One, if I had to guess. Neither console has any real backwards compatibility.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah man. Who would have thought, right? It was a flood of WW2 shooters for a while, then modern, now sci-fi. It's time to restart the cycle and go historic with all the development capabilities of today. That's why a WW2 themed shooter would be refreshing.

There is so much that can be done with it nowadays that couldn't back then.


----------



## Fegefeuer

namelesspfg said:


> At any rate, I'm wondering what the heck a CoD4 remaster would offer to PC gamers. We already have a version that runs at whatever resolution we want, allows for leaning and dedicated servers, supports mods, etc. until CoD:MW2 took all that away and got rightfully called out on all of it.
> 
> If anything, it's more for getting CoD4 on the PS4 and Xbox One, if I had to guess. Neither console has any real backwards compatibility.


 
  
 well, with Codename Neo and most likely MS as well we'll have FC/BC from now on


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Remaster is not a simple resolution bump. Volumetric fog, dynamic lighting, whole new graphical assets, physical based rendering, etc. It is a proper remaster.

here's a video that shows before and afters.


https://www.facebook.com/401883713352009/videos/499894756884237/?fref=nf



namelesspfg said:


> Who'd have thought that WWII of all things would seem like a breath of fresh air in the FPS market? I still remember how overdone it was when BF1942 first released amongst all the Medal of Honor and Call of Duty at the time.
> 
> At any rate, I'm wondering what the heck a CoD4 remaster would offer to PC gamers. We already have a version that runs at whatever resolution we want, allows for leaning and dedicated servers, supports mods, etc. until CoD:MW2 took all that away and got rightfully called out on all of it.
> 
> If anything, it's more for getting CoD4 on the PS4 and Xbox One, if I had to guess. Neither console has any real backwards compatibility.


----------



## Fegefeuer

from the few screenshots I saw it's almost a remake, it really looks damn good and I'm excited just for the singleplayer campaign.


----------



## eltorrete

mohawkus said:


> Has anyone tested something in between the bargain bin & flagship IEMs? Something which would stand toe-to-toe with the AD700 or K712 in pricing? At most you'd get 2 BA per channel in that range.
> 
> My original question was based on a $10 pair of throwaway Sonys from way back in the day. Immersion was very impressive as well as basic positioning, it took virtual surround and fullsized open cans to match it. It was bad in every other way, yet maybe a $200 pair wouldn't be nor would it sound as anemic as a recommended overear from the newer Realtek codecs.


 
  
 I recommend the FLC8S. the best IEM on quality / price ratio


----------



## odib

It seems like the Turtle Beach T.A.C. is finally being released soon. Sometime in June hopefully 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





.
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/elite-pro-headsets
 http://www.dexerto.com/news/2016/05/03/optic-gaming-turtlebeach-headset-sponsor-elite/


----------



## kayan

Any recommendations for a pair of iem between 75-150ish for gaming?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

What would you guys consider to be a direct upgrade from the HD 558?
Had these for 4 years now I'm curious on how much of a improvement I can get for around $300 to $350. 
Would still like open back so something like the hd 600s seems tempting, though I hear alot of good things about hifiman.


----------



## Hansotek

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What would you guys consider to be a direct upgrade from the HD 558?
> Had these for 4 years now I'm curious on how much of a improvement I can get for around $300 to $350.
> Would still like open back so something like the hd 600s seems tempting, though I hear alot of good things about hifiman.


 
  
 The Philiips Fidelio X2 and the HiFiMan HE400 both represent solid next-level upgrades at that price point.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

hansotek said:


> The Philiips Fidelio X2 and the HiFiMan HE400 both represent solid next-level upgrades at that price point.


you mean the 400i or 400S?


----------



## Imperatore

I just pulled the trigger on some HE400i, I hope they are a noticable improvement over the K7XX and X2.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> You can also get custom IEMs starting at $200 and going up from there. If you want to game for hours custom is probably the way to go because they're so much more comfortable than universals.



So long as you get the impressions right. Mine aren't even bad, but feel weird after 30 minutes. My ears are annoyingly sensitive/picky about IEMs. Which brand is $200?




odib said:


> It seems like the Turtle Beach T.A.C. is finally being released soon. Sometime in June hopefully  .
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/elite-pro-headsets
> http://www.dexerto.com/news/2016/05/03/optic-gaming-turtlebeach-headset-sponsor-elite/




I totally should contact these guys and ask if I could review the TAC for them.


----------



## Drizz1e

mrkingdomhearts said:


> you mean the 400i or 400S?


 

 The HE-400 came before both of those. There's a review in the OP.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

So I've been looking up the HiFiMans 400S and would something like the brainwavz hybrid velour/pleather earbuds improve bass response and reduce sound leakage?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

drizz1e said:


> The HE-400 came before both of those. There's a review in the OP.


 Oh I'll check those out then.

EDIT:And they are discontinued and not for sale on Amazon...... That sucks.


----------



## Hansotek

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Oh I'll check those out then.


 
  
 All three will represent an upgrade. The original HE400 remains one of my favorites - it is worthwhile to look into changing the pads (since they are a bit uncomfortable), grabbing a beyer DT990 headband pad and possibly a new cable. But the sound is pretty stellar.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Hmm if I was to get the HE400 I would probably have to shop on eBay. 
If the two what do most people prefer the 400S or standerd 400 for gaming and music? Getting a amp so it dosent matter if one is more difficult to drive then the other.


----------



## Hansotek

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Hmm if I was to get the HE400 I would probably have to shop on eBay.
> If the two what do most people prefer the 400S or standerd 400 for gaming and music? Getting a amp so it dosent matter if one is more difficult to drive then the other.


 
  
 Depends on what kind of music you listen to.
  
 The Philips Fidelio X2 is great as well. (And so is the X1, provided you ditch the crappy stock cable. A $10 Monoprice and/or a Boom Pro will provide a significant upgrade).


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I listen to rock, metal, alternative, techno, some orchestra, and chiptunes.
Yeah I should check out the X1 and X2s, just like the look of the HiFiMans and the planer magnetic drivers looks like a interesting technology.


----------



## Change is Good

kayan said:


> Any recommendations for a pair of iem between 75-150ish for gaming?




Philips SHP9500 ($60 on newegg) or the new Hifiman HE-350 from Massdrop ($100).


----------



## Darkangelpt

evshrug said:


> So long as you get the impressions right. Mine aren't even bad, but feel weird after 30 minutes. My ears are annoyingly sensitive/picky about IEMs. Which brand is $200?
> I totally should contact these guys and ask if I could review the TAC for them.


 
 im really intereste in knowing about the turtlle beach elite pro.
 the magic is on the amp right?
 looking to see if get someting better than my mixamp tr


----------



## Change is Good

DICE is giving away a free map pack for both Hardline and BF4 in the PS Store. Each full game is only $10 too if you don't own them yet.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> DICE is giving away a free map pack for both Hardline and BF4 in the PS Store. Each full game is only $10 too if you don't own them yet.




I didn't get into BF4 as much as I would have liked. But I have to say dice has done a good job with its continued support of the game.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Definitely interested in the turtle-beach elite pro tactical audio controller. Doesn't say anything regarding inputs. 
 Is it just optical only? Also I wonder what Astro has up its sleeve. Seems like the mix amp is due for a redesign as well. 
  
 http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/pc-accessories-accessories/turtle-beach-elite-pro-tactical-audio-controller/840


----------



## octiceps

namelesspfg said:


> Who'd have thought that WWII of all things would seem like a breath of fresh air in the FPS market? I still remember how overdone it was when BF1942 first released amongst all the Medal of Honor and Call of Duty at the time.
> 
> At any rate, I'm wondering what the heck a CoD4 remaster would offer to PC gamers. We already have a version that runs at whatever resolution we want, allows for leaning and dedicated servers, supports mods, etc. until CoD:MW2 took all that away and got rightfully called out on all of it.
> 
> If anything, it's more for getting CoD4 on the PS4 and Xbox One, if I had to guess. Neither console has any real backwards compatibility.


 
  
 Exactly. In lieu of actual backward compatibility due to architectural differences (x86 vs. PPC) and current-gen hardware being too weak to emulate, graphical remasters of popular last-gen titles have been the modus operandi this console gen. Halo, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs, Metro 2033 & LL, Gears of War, CoD4, GTA V, Dark Souls II, Dishonored, Borderlands, Saints Row 4, etc. There have probably been more remasters than new games.
  


lenroot77 said:


> I didn't get into BF4 as much as I would have liked. But I have to say dice has done a good job with its continued support of the game.


 
  
 Same. BF4 bored me to tears as it was just a bloated BF3 which I already got sick and tired of. I probably played the BF4 beta more than I did the retail game LOL.
  
 They're actually releasing all DLC for BF4 and BFH on all platforms in the coming months leading up to BF5's release.
  
 But yeah, can't fault DICE's efforts (DICE LA especially) in fixing up the game, although it should never have been released in such a shoddy state to begin with.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, PPC vs X86 architecture is a challenge but not impossible to overcome. Apple was emulating their old software when they switched to PPC, then when they retired the PPC G5 and switched to the Intel processors (x86) they created Rosetta Stone (I think that's what they called it) to do PPC emulation. I suppose Microsoft just figured that people could buy an Xbox 360 or keep using their existing one, instead of paying for the R&D in backwards compatibility. I don't love the lack of backwards compatibility... but all my old consoles still do work.

IMO it is funny that MS picked up PPC right when Apple dropped it.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> So long as you get the impressions right. Mine aren't even bad, but feel weird after 30 minutes. My ears are annoyingly sensitive/picky about IEMs. Which brand is $200?


 
  
 InEarz, a US brand based in Florida. The $200 is a single BA but my understanding is that it sounds decent, so it's a cheap way to try out customs without dropping a fortune on the first one.
  
 http://www.inearz.com/sport150/


----------



## octiceps

evshrug said:


> Well, PPC vs X86 architecture is a challenge but not impossible to overcome. Apple was emulating their old software when they switched to PPC, then when they retired the PPC G5 and switched to the Intel processors (x86) they created Rosetta Stone (I think that's what they called it) to do PPC emulation. I suppose Microsoft just figured that people could buy an Xbox 360 or keep using their existing one, instead of paying for the R&D in backwards compatibility. I don't love the lack of backwards compatibility... but all my old consoles still do work.
> 
> IMO it is funny that MS picked up PPC right when Apple dropped it.


 
  
 Console hardware just isn't strong enough. Even high-end PC's can barely emulate XB360 and PS3 games.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> The Remaster is not a simple resolution bump. Volumetric fog, dynamic lighting, whole new graphical assets, physical based rendering, etc. It is a proper remaster.
> 
> here's a video that shows before and afters.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/401883713352009/videos/499894756884237/?fref=nf


 
  
 Whoa, that's night and day there! They're doing it right, from the looks of it!
  
 Though the real question is whether the gameplay handles exactly as you'd expect, or if they manage to botch something in that respect while remastering the whole game in an updated engine.
  
 For that matter, are PC players still going to have the leaning, dedicated servers and so forth that they had with the original version? 
  


evshrug said:


> Well, PPC vs X86 architecture is a challenge but not impossible to overcome. Apple was emulating their old software when they switched to PPC, then when they retired the PPC G5 and switched to the Intel processors (x86) they created Rosetta Stone (I think that's what they called it) to do PPC emulation. I suppose Microsoft just figured that people could buy an Xbox 360 or keep using their existing one, instead of paying for the R&D in backwards compatibility. I don't love the lack of backwards compatibility... but all my old consoles still do work.
> 
> IMO it is funny that MS picked up PPC right when Apple dropped it.


 
  
 It's just "Rosetta", though it's named after the famous stone. Calling it "Rosetta Stone" in full is more likely to get you language-learning software in your search results.
  
 Anyway, I think the only reason we have Xbox 360, PS3 and even Wii U emulation as far along as it is now, on present-day PC hardware, is that console game programming is becoming increasingly high-level like on PCs, so it's more of a matter of just intercepting and translating the API calls rather than low-level emulation of actual CPU, GPU, bus, etc. behavior.
  
 That reduces the sheer processing power required, though it's generally a trade-off of accuracy and compatibility for speed.
  


octiceps said:


> Console hardware just isn't strong enough. Even high-end PC's can barely emulate XB360 and PS3 games.


 
  
 If anything, I'm surprised Microsoft even announced any semblance of Xbox 360 backwards compatibility with Xbox One, even if it's half-assed like original Xbox on X360 was. Perhaps it's easy to get away with if they're dealing with anything fairly high-level, like XNA.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I saw a response somewhere from IW saying that online will have dedicated servers for MW1.

Considering how horrendous the online latency is for the PS3 version, I'm gonna be happy to play without all that lag.

Gameplay-wise, as long as the target sticks to 60fps, I highly doubt ANYTHING was changed from the core mechanics. I have yet to play a remaster that has changed gameplay mechanics. Only remakes do that.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> So long as you get the impressions right. Mine aren't even bad, but feel weird after 30 minutes. My ears are annoyingly sensitive/picky about IEMs. Which brand is $200?
> I totally should contact these guys and ask if I could review the TAC for them.



Please do, I-d love to hear Your impressions. As for CIEMs there is this Polish company called Custom Art. Their prices start at 200ish usd.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Please do, I-d love to hear Your impressions. As for CIEMs there is this Polish company called Custom Art. Their prices start at 200ish usd.




Yeah, the Music One. There's also an upside to only having one BA, the Music One is one of the flattest, smallest, most comfortable headphones on the planet. Like, lay on it comfortable, though I hear rumors that long-term wearing of IEMs creates problems from moisture building up in your ear. I don't know how true that is, because obviously people with hearing aids wear basically IEMs all day.

My CIEMs are CustomArt (the three-way P330 V2), and Piotr is a great guy and very empathetic to talk to. He offered to refit my CIEMs on two occasions, I just never got around to it because I feel like I need whole new impressions and I never got around to it.

I hope to talk to Turtle Beach and maybe get an early unit, but regardless I'm planning on getting a project off the back burner and making a whole bunch of DSP reviews.


----------



## speakerlao

mad lust envy said:


> I saw a response somewhere from IW saying that online will have dedicated servers for MW1.
> 
> Considering how horrendous the online latency is for the PS3 version, I'm gonna be happy to play without all that lag.
> 
> Gameplay-wise, as long as the target sticks to 60fps, I highly doubt ANYTHING was changed from the core mechanics. I have yet to play a remaster that has changed gameplay mechanics. Only remakes do that.


 

 I highly doubt they're using the older engine, so the whole core mechanics will feel completely different to a purist. You can expect physics, hit reg, etc - to all be different from the original. Pretty much Black OPS 3 disguised as COD4.


----------



## Darkangelpt

helvetica bold said:


> Definitely interested in the turtle-beach elite pro tactical audio controller. Doesn't say anything regarding inputs.
> Is it just optical only? Also I wonder what Astro has up its sleeve. Seems like the mix amp is due for a redesign as well.
> 
> http://www.turtlebeach.com/product-detail/pc-accessories-accessories/turtle-beach-elite-pro-tactical-audio-controller/840




Is astro doing something new? Is there any info on that. 
Is dts x headphone much better than dolby? 
I hoje the t.a.c. Can be used both xbox and ps4 without chat cable.


----------



## Fegefeuer

We don't know yet how DTS Xeadphone X works on a playing field with user choice aka not bundled with bad headsets. 
 Plus the TAC needs have a good quality level in terms of SQ, else there is no point in paying the (years ago) rumoured price


----------



## Darkangelpt

fegefeuer said:


> We don't know yet how DTS Xeadphone X works on a playing field with user choice aka not bundled with bad headsets.
> Plus the TAC needs have a good quality level in terms of SQ, else there is no point in paying the (years ago) rumoured price




I hope they good wanna try it with my hd 598 and akg q701. 
Mixamp tr are not so good


----------



## Fegefeuer

preorder starts at June 12 it seems, hopefully the Evshrugist gets a review sample.


----------



## Yethal

Out-of-the-box PC support, daisy chaining via Ethernet instead of the mini Firewire Astro has adopted, mic monitoring. I gotta admit, that is a nice set of features. Although they still haven't switched from optical to HDMI so that's a bummer. I'd rather try Tritton Katana.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> Out-of-the-box PC support, daisy chaining via Ethernet instead of the mini Firewire Astro has adopted, mic monitoring. I gotta admit, that is a nice set of features. Although they still haven't switched from optical to HDMI so that's a bummer. I'd rather try Tritton Katana.




Has anything been said about a line out for use with other headphone amps?


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Has anything been said about a line out for use with other headphone amps?


 

 Nope, but highly doubt it.


----------



## headphonesonly

change is good said:


> So the only way to get Modern Warfare Remaster is by purchasing the new one? Damn. Looks like I'll be skipping yet another COD this year. I was kind of interested because COD 4 and World at War are what got me into FPSs.
> 
> If EA and DICE half-ass the new BF like they did Hardline and Battlefront I may have to give up on all shooters in general.


Dice didn't make hard-line it was Viseral.


----------



## headphonesonly

fegefeuer said:


> We don't know yet how DTS Xeadphone X works on a playing field with user choice aka not bundled with bad headsets.
> Plus the TAC needs have a good quality level in terms of SQ, else there is no point in paying the (years ago) rumoured price


I had the turtle beach elite 800 before my thoughts on DTS headphone X is that it sounds very similar to sbx pro studio set to 100% surround. There was a movie mode that made the audio sound like Dolby headphone.


----------



## thuNDa

headphonesonly said:


> I had the turtle beach elite 800 before my thoughts on DTS headphone X is that it sounds very similar to sbx pro studio set to 100% surround.


 
 So it must have been quite bad then.


----------



## Change is Good

headphonesonly said:


> Dice didn't make hard-line it was Viseral.




I know this. Still had the Battlefield name, and Battlefront WAS dice. Both sukd donkey dik compared to real a BF game. Stop making excuses just because hardline was visceral.


----------



## Change is Good

Honestly, I'd be skeptical of Mirror's Edge because it IS dice. Outside of the bad company series, story telling has never been their strong suit. Not to mention, EA has had them working on three different games at the same time (SW:BF, ME, BF 2016). Hard to imagine them reaching any good quality barriers like that.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Has anyone tried the HE400i/s and the Fidelio X2 side by side and if they did how do they compare to each other?


----------



## Change is Good

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Has anyone tried the HE400i/s and the Fidelio X2 side by side and if they did how do they compare to each other?




Not side by side, but I did try both within the same month about a year ago. The 400i is a much better quality sounding headphone, and I'm not talking sound signature. I'm one of the few that wasn't too impressed with the X2.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Checked out both headphones on Amazon and I can get the HE400i for around $340 and the X2 for around $212. 
Like I said would mostly use this for gaming and rock/heavy metal music.


----------



## Hansotek

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Checked out both headphones on Amazon and I can get the HE400i for around $340 and the X2 for around $212.
> Like I said would mostly use this for gaming and rock/heavy metal music.


 
  
 FWIW, HE400i is one of the most popular headphones in the metal thread. It tends to excel with stuff like progressive, metalcore, death, thrash etc. X2 may be a little better for slower stuff like doom & sludge. But both will still work for either thing... just talking about strengths. X2 is also easily compatible with the boom pro, if you use it. HE400i can be, but would require an additional custom adaptor. That's only a consideration if you do a lot of multiplayer gaming.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

hansotek said:


> FWIW, HE400i is one of the most popular headphones in the metal thread. It tends to excel with stuff like progressive, metalcore, death, thrash etc. X2 may be a little better for slower stuff like doom & sludge. But both will still work for either thing... just talking about strengths. X2 is also easily compatible with the boom pro, if you use it. HE400i can be, but would require an additional custom adaptor. That's only a consideration if you do a lot of multiplayer gaming.


if I was to get a mic, I would probably get a blue snowball so that's not a issue. 
Would the creative sound blaster g5 sound okay with either one?


----------



## Hansotek

mrkingdomhearts said:


> if I was to get a mic, I would probably get a blue snowball so that's not a issue.
> Would the creative sound blaster g5 sound okay with either one?


 
  
 Good choice. On the G5, that's a great question for @Evshrug. He knows the Creative stuff really well.


----------



## headphonesonly

thunda said:


> So it must have been quite bad then. :atsmile:


Yea, I sold those because they were trash. My superlux headphone is much better hands down.


----------



## thuNDa

I was just playing around more with Creatives "BlasterX Acoustic Engine Lite"(anyone can download for free: http://www.soundblaster.com/blasterx/software/?l=en), and it's rediculous.
 I set the virtual device to "5.1", and used the FPS-profile which shows Surround at 60, but there is no surround whatsoever, even in their own "helicopter demo".


----------



## Fegefeuer

Here's a short Lynne 5.1 test where you can hear that the rear channels move closer together the lesser the SBX value gets. 
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGqDM5kBU7I&feature=youtu.be


----------



## thuNDa

fegefeuer said:


> Here's a short Lynne 5.1 test where you can hear that the rear channels move closer together the lesser the SBX value gets.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGqDM5kBU7I&feature=youtu.be


 

 This is with Soundblaster Z:
  
 https://youtu.be/_64fLhP3qos


----------



## anticris81

Han ANUNCIADO EL TAC playa de las tortugas ONU de la estafa auricular en su page, también salen Imágenes de la TAC en su Último vídeo canal de youtube .. si rompo any foro Cambio de regla.on página se pone cuesta 200 dólares only TAC


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

^Talkig about the Turtle Beach TAC, which I think has been in limbo for ages, but is now just released, I believe.


----------



## anticris81

if, put on sale only the TAC for $ 200 at the end of May .... I think it's too expensive


----------



## DC5Zilla

How does Alpha Prime compare against Ether C for soundstage width?  My current Bang Olufsen H6 is doing great job with boommic but would also like to have another higher fidelity pair.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> ^Talkig about the Turtle Beach TAC, which I think has been in limbo for ages, but is now just released, I believe.




Seems like it will be soon.....

I'm still concerned about it's quality because....Turtle Beach lol


----------



## octiceps

change is good said:


> I know this. Still had the Battlefield name, and Battlefront WAS dice. Both sukd donkey dik compared to real a BF game. Stop making excuses just because hardline was visceral.




The last real BF game was 2142, not this watered down for consoles junk. It's funny because Visceral did a better job than DICE has with any BF game since BC2. Hardline actually took some risks to break from the formula and people weren't ready for it. The Hitman-style singleplayer alone was better than anything in BF3 and BF4. DICE only knows how to make graphically impressive but shallow and mediocre multiplayer games. Battlefront 3 doesn't even deserve its name.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I think I'll go for the HE400i, from what i read they seem to be better for more fast paced music like metal which is what I listen to and I really want a set of planer cans. 
Anyone tried them for gaming?


----------



## Darkangelpt

rudyae86 said:


> Seems like it will be soon.....
> 
> I'm still concerned about it's quality because....Turtle Beach lol




Yup turtlebeach I had the xp seven even with good headphones it sounded so bad. 
Lets hope this is not the case


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

octiceps said:


> The last real BF game was 2142, not this watered down for consoles junk. It's funny because Visceral did a better job than DICE has with any BF game since BC2. Hardline actually took some risks to break from the formula and people weren't ready for it. The Hitman-style singleplayer alone was better than anything in BF3 and BF4. DICE only knows how to make graphically impressive but shallow and mediocre multiplayer games. Battlefront 3 doesn't even deserve its name.




Heeeey, if it wasn't for Battlefield 2: Modern Combat on the Xbox 360, I never would've played FPS games, and this thread wouldn't have existed. I've been gaming since the 80s, and BF2: MC was my FIRST real FPS game. I owe a lot to that game. Of course, CoD4 came right after and REALLY got me into FPS.


----------



## Change is Good

And I so happen to owe my love for FPS to COD4. Go figure


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CoD4 was the one to start the hunt for virtual surround. I played BF2:MC with TV speakers.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> Heeeey, if it wasn't for Battlefield 2: Modern Combat on the Xbox 360, I never would've played FPS games, and this thread wouldn't have existed. I've been gaming since the 80s, and BF2: MC was my FIRST real FPS game. I owe a lot to that game. Of course, CoD4 came right after and REALLY got me into FPS.




Interesting. Modern Combat kinda flew under the radar as it was overshadowed that year by CoD2, Quake IV, F.E.A.R., and DoD:S. Not to mention the extremely popular PC BF2 that it was cut down from. 2005 was a great year for FPS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I always watched my brother playing it, and I enjoyed it, so I bought it for myself, and the rest was history.


----------



## NamelessPFG

octiceps said:


> The last real BF game was 2142, not this watered down for consoles junk. It's funny because Visceral did a better job than DICE has with any BF game since BC2. Hardline actually took some risks to break from the formula and people weren't ready for it. The Hitman-style singleplayer alone was better than anything in BF3 and BF4. DICE only knows how to make graphically impressive but shallow and mediocre multiplayer games. Battlefront 3 doesn't even deserve its name.


 
  
 About BF2142, though: it took the unlock system they showed off with BF2 and made it utterly overblown. I mean, having to unlock HAND GRENADES? Really, DICE?
  
 It's a shame, since I like the sci-fi take and all, but if anything, I blame 2142 for starting the trend of modern multiplayer FPSs becoming grindfests to unlock the guns that don't suck. SW:BF3 isn't much better in that regard, since I still remember how much it sucked trying to play the open beta without having unlocked Thermal Detonators or Cycler Rifles against everyone who did.
  
 I mean, I still have bitter memories of BF:BC2 where I tried to face off with my awful PKM against guys who already had M60 + Magnum Ammo, to ill effect. I don't recall anything in BF1942 or BF2 being that stupidly unbalanced. (Vietnam, on the other hand... M60 + LAW kit, anyone?)
  
 At the very least, I see a lot of hope on the horizon for modern FPSs, since Unreal Tournament 4 is already a thing and plays pretty impressively despite being in pre-alpha at the moment. They've put even more thought into movement and gun mechanics than any prior iteration of UT, and possibly even more than Unreal Championship 2 as well.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> if I was to get a mic, I would probably get a blue snowball so that's not a issue.
> Would the creative sound blaster g5 sound okay with either one?



Yup, the G5 would sound okay with either. Put it on high gain for the HE-400i, doesn't need to be louder but it sounds more dynamic.

Keep in mind too that the snowball is great, but the E5 has everything the G5 does, plus a built-in beam forming mic that doesn't suck. The table stand is ok, but it also has a thread mount if you want to get advanced and mount it on an arm  So, compare the price difference of the G5 vs E5 (about $50) and the cost of the blue snowball, and consider if maybe some of the E5's other features could come in handy some day (Bluetooth, battery).


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Sorry if I seem picky but how do the 400s compare to the 400i? 
On Amazon there's around $100 difference in price. 
I hear the 400s pads are I pain to chance but the 400i has the weird twist on cable.
Also would the 400s having one side being planer instead of double sided affect sound quality at all?


----------



## Evshrug

Hifiman does make HE400i with regular cable connectors, not just the old-style screw-on ones. Just gotta look for the newer HE400i. I haven't heard the HE400s to compare.

While I've owned a bunch of external DSPs, conquerator2 has owned or at least listened to almost all the HiFiman headphones.


----------



## conquerator2

The 400i and 400s have the same pad mounting system.
Personally, I liked them both for different reasons. 
The 400s I liked for its smooth character and full midrange while the 400i is a bit more extended up top and bottom. The 560 is more extended in both directions than both but also not as smooth. The 400i sounds fairly close in terms of signature to the 560 while the S version is more differrnt.


----------



## Change is Good

namelesspfg said:


> About BF2142, though: it took the unlock system they showed off with BF2 and made it utterly overblown. I mean, having to unlock HAND GRENADES? Really, DICE?
> 
> It's a shame, since I like the sci-fi take and all, but if anything, I blame 2142 for starting the trend of modern multiplayer FPSs becoming grindfests to unlock the guns that don't suck. SW:BF3 isn't much better in that regard, since I still remember how much it sucked trying to play the open beta without having unlocked Thermal Detonators or Cycler Rifles against everyone who did.
> 
> ...




Well, the huge shadow in today's BF teaser trailer all but confirms it. Bring on the Titans!

Edit: Or is it a zeppelin? Tomorrow can't get here fast enough... :/


----------



## Evshrug

I liked the outer space/starfighter/boarding capital ships mode in SW: Battlefront II. As I understand it, Titans mode in 2041 was the precursor of that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CoD does future, everyone bitches about it. Battlefield does the same, everyone praises it.

I wish people would just be honest to themselves and admit they just LOVE to hate on CoD, and brownnose everything Battlefield.

I'm not speaking to anyone here in particular. Just the general consensus online.

Some people just love to hate.


----------



## Change is Good

Sorry man. General consensus from many is that DICE just does military shooters better than most others.

Until Battlefront that is lol

I think the reason why Battlefield gets a pass is because all but one have been modern/historic. I believe the last five CODs have been set some time in the future (which happen to be all the ones I skipped). I haven't bought a COD since MW3. I was very disappointed with it, tried BF3, never looked back.


----------



## Change is Good

And don't get me wrong, I HATED Battlefield the first time I tried it. It was definitely a learning curve switching over.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> CoD does future, everyone bitches about it. Battlefield does the same, everyone praises it.
> 
> I wish people would just be honest to themselves and admit they just LOVE to hate on CoD, and brownnose everything Battlefield.
> 
> ...




You do know why the name Call of Duty was used for the first couple of games of WW2? 

Also, it's not hate, it's facts and one fact is that after every release since BO2, COD games aren't selling well anymore.

Another fact is that, they have not improve much in the latest games. Not much replay value in them. 

A good amount of people agree that the latest COD games were made and marketed towards teens.

I played the latest one and it's ok. 
It's fun for a bit but quickly gets dull.

Maybe I'm just getting old...I'm almost 30


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I'm the weird one of my family, when I talk about call of duty I tend to tall about my experiences with 2 and big red one..... Then I get a weird look.


----------



## Evshrug

Rudy, we're like the same age! :ninja:
I think the CoD series still breaks sales records each time it comes out... It just people aren't as vocally passionate or inspired by them anymore.

The old CoDs were about trying to feel like part of an army, part of something historic. Big battles for both sides, and (eventually) battles that mattered (historically).

Of course, Battlefield games outdid CoD on the whole "big army and lots of people fighting alongside you" bit, so CoD games started telling more "personal" stories about finding glory and playing a pivotal role. Single player was still the main draw.

Halo 2. Halo 2. Changed console multiplayer forever. CoD caught up with (basically) CoD4, which had a GREAT multiplayer and a fresh campaign which was more shadow ops... Still seemed like you were doing something quasi-historic and important because of the contemporary setting in the Middle East and the shock of the (spoilers?) nuclear bomb. Single player and MP were equally cool, and there was a LOT of life/meat/content in the multiplayer. MW2 was arguably still contemporary with the terrorist attacks but honestly was just a continuation of CoD4 and the plot wasn't memorable other than "Oooh they had to offer a censored option on one of the levels," that was the first title mostly about multiplayer. BO campaign harkened back to taking part in pivotal points of history, and had a really cool plot even though it was still "shadow ops" (black ops, duh). Oh, and good multiplayer.

Everything after that has just been fantasy, and I do like Fantasy but nothing that happens seems to matter or have stakes I care about. BO3 campaign has been such a grind, I got it just about when it came out and I still can only play a level here and there before boredom, haven't beaten it yet. I'm on a level where I just found out the spec ops team that trained me has gone rogue, and... there's a conspiracy about putting people's consciousnesses into robots? Or people are using augmented reality to hack into our perception of real reality? I don't give a poop! Multiplayer is boring; I only enjoy the 3-shot burst AR and the first pistol, maybe the Dingo if I was ranked up enough to put it in a loadout (but I would move slow as molasses), the gametypes are stale and not helped by the boring meat-grinder-in-the-center maps, and the slightly-more-powerful supers and wall-running don't change the pace of the game. Zombies mode has some clever encounters and probably is the best part of the current game, but I don't feel too enthusiastic about digging in and doing research outside gameplay to learn the best strategies and what I need to do... I'm trying to have fun, not get homework that pays you back in an interesting exam. I could learn in-game from matchmade teammates, but if someone has a mic they're in party chat and won't help you anyway.

CoD4 was great, replaying it probably would bring back the old addictions, but they could make a cool NEW CoD too if they made the campaign have some grounding in reality and/or at least make it significant to where to feel proud to have beaten it, and at least have some multiplayer maps where the battle lines seem to shift like some of the best CoD4 and even Ghosts maps. You guys may disagree with me here, but no meat-grinder maps like Nuketown for over 6 total players, or from BO3 you have Combine, Aquarium, and Metro, but all of these play TDM like the center is a king of the hill spot but there is no "hill," just a no man's land where almost everyone gets funneled into and dies. Maybe I'm weird, but knowing where to find the enemy isn't enough fun for me, that's just trench warfare in disguise. Trench warfare was WWI, how did we end up making games like that? I like the sense of progression, being able to push the enemy back around the map or sneak up from behind. We don't need nukes, we don't need 20 different killstreaks where you can't get half of them without care package luck or camping like a ****** ******. We don't need the DLC guns that actually feel unique locked behind micro transactions... You know that they won't give them to you despite spending $100 on game and season pass, but people actually spent a lot of money experimenting with the micro transactions and found out that odds are you probably won't get a DLC gun till you spend on average $81? On top of the game and season pass?

What is this?
/end rant.


----------



## thuNDa

I test the open beta from "Overwatch" atm, and the game itself delivers "Dolby Atmos for Headphones".


----------



## rudyae86

thunda said:


> I test the open beta from "Overwatch" atm, and the game itself delivers "Dolby Atmos for Headphones". :basshead:




You sure? You got me excited but please do explain more


----------



## thuNDa

rudyae86 said:


> You sure? You got me excited but please do explain more


 
  
  
  
 You can enable it in the audio options, and it will be processed by the game(and it works).
  
 http://imgur.com/MoDy26N


----------



## Yethal

thunda said:


> You can enable it in the audio options, and it will be processed by the game(and it works).
> 
> http://imgur.com/MoDy26N


 

 Coud You please post this in English? While I can understand most of the text, I had to figure some parts out of the context.


----------



## thuNDa

Ye sry, couldn't change language in the options.
  
 It says, use regular stereo headphones, and turn off the 5.1/7.1 virtualisation of your soundcard.


----------



## Fegefeuer

look at the last line, it says:
  
 "DOLBY ATMOS for headphones"


----------



## rudyae86

thunda said:


> You can enable it in the audio options, and it will be processed by the game(and it works).
> 
> http://imgur.com/MoDy26N




The real question is......Dolby Atmos built into game without needing hardware to use it?


----------



## Fegefeuer

rudyae86 said:


> The real question is......Dolby Atmos built into game without needing hardware to use it?


 
  
 it does need a CPU 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Dolby Atmos for Headphones will eat a few CPU cycles of course


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> The real question is......Dolby Atmos built into game without needing hardware to use it?


 

 Yup. The same way Dolby Digital support could be built into the game, or 7.1 could be built into the game. If the sound engine supports it (I'm guessing it's not Wwise) then why not?


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> look at the last line, it says:
> 
> "DOLBY ATMOS for headphones"


 

 Don't force me to learn German, it's not the forties anymore


----------



## Fegefeuer

It's the first game with "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" 
  
 Check out this presentation where they list basics about sound design and audio mixing for competitive gaming
  
 http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Lawlor_Neumann_Overwatch_Play_by_Sound.pdf


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Coud You please post this in English? While I can understand most of the text, I had to figure some parts out of the context.




I mean, he summed up the whole article. If you go into Overwatch settings, apparently there is an option to output Dolby ATMOS headphone through the main audio output. I didn't even think to look! I'll check that out tonight, excited!! G5 may get some use after all


----------



## Fegefeuer

@thuNDa 
  
 Can you do a recording of a game session with atmos? Doesn't matter if you get owned. ;D
 Aber stellsch SBX erschd amoi aus, ge?


----------



## Yethal

Just read through the presentation. Indeed it is very interesting. A shame that it's a PC only feature, I'd love to hear it.


----------



## conquerator2

Is it PC only then? Noooooooooo


----------



## thuNDa

fegefeuer said:


> @thuNDa
> 
> Can you do a recording of a game session with atmos? Doesn't matter if you get owned. ;D
> Aber stellsch SBX erschd amoi aus, ge?


 
 I can do a recording of the tutorial, which might be even better, because you can safely run around. 
 SBX will be off of course...


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Is it PC only then? Noooooooooo


 

 In beta it is. Dunno about the release version.


----------



## conquerator2

I remember watching a movie in Dolby Atmos. The thought of that coming to [console] gaming gives me much excitement


----------



## rudyae86

PCMASTERRACE!FTW

Sorry had to say it lol

It indeed sucks that it's PC only. 

Seems like some engineers are lurking around here reading what we want. 

Also....

Guess it's time to upgrade my 4790k lol 

Need moar cores!


----------



## eltorrete

I've tried the game connected to my amp Yamaha, turning Dolby Atmos indicates that configure the sound card and stereo, if he does that sound amplifier indicates neo 6.

This game has an amazing sound but has lack of trying but I think it sounds better with SBX x7


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Seems I need a set of closed back headphones soon since it's not ideal blocking out noise with my 558s....
Maybe the M50s or dt770 will fit my needs.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Rudy, we're like the same age! :ninja:
> I think the CoD series still breaks sales records each time it comes out... It just people aren't as vocally passionate or inspired by them anymore.
> 
> The old CoDs were about trying to feel like part of an army, part of something historic. Big battles for both sides, and (eventually) battles that mattered (historically).
> ...




I totally agree with you.

That's how I feel now.

Man, i remember those days when the first COD MW came out...went to pick it up at my nearby gamestop (eew i know).

Played that game non stop for months, downloaded mods, went to dedicated servers, etc, etc.

Chiiit, i remember when the first COD came out and then United Offensive on PC. Gawd it was glorious! Lol

And then COD2 and maaan. It changed everything. My clan at that time had scrimmages with other clans.

Simply put it, back then it was another world...

Sigh...I am getting old


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys are missing the point on what I'm talking about in terms of CoD or BF.

Point: As soooon as CoD releases any info, people are automatically in pure hatred mode.

As soon as BF says the same exact thing, people are automatically like, OMGBESTTHINGEVER.

It has nothing to do with the actual content. People will automatically bitch about CoD regardless of whatever they do. Same goes for the opposite.

CoD and BF are two entirely different series. I think it's absolutely idiotic that people compare the two. CoD has always been an arcadey run and gun afair. BF has always been a huge map, team oriented shooter. They are quite different sub-genres. Funny how when CoD tries to go big, it fails, and when BF tries to go intimate and arcadey, it fails (MoH anyone?) I don't have any love for CoD. I haven't loved CoD since basically Black Ops 1. Ever since, it's been otherwise dead to me. CoD4 remastered is what will bring me back.

I don't have any love for BF. I loved BF2: MC, and Bad Company 1. After that, they've been rehashing the same nonsense themselves. This is coming from someone who had BC2, BF3, and rented BF4. They are just as guilty of the same BS rehashing as CoD. But no one complains (aside from hardline which I think people finally really started drilling them about).

I just absolutely hate blind hatred for a series you're not even interested in. CoD can go to outer space, dramatically change the gameplay, and people will still say it's the same crap over again, even when they've changed SO much basiclaly since Blops II.

The only thing that will cause people to stop the hate and inaccurate hate is if CoD because NOT CoD. It's become a meme. The cool thing to do is hate on it. Again, I've largely disregarded every CoD since Ghosts. But I won't sit here and say it's all the same. It's changed quite a bit.

As for BF: It's not for me. Hasn't been since BC1. But I'm not hating on it either. I just don't talk about it, because again, not my thing.


----------



## Change is Good

The day Activision decides to give their developers more freedom is when CoD (or any of their games, for that matter) will stop getting all the hate it does, today. It really isn't about the theme or gameplay, at this point. Just compare the two trailers and you'll see what I mean. CoD has been long overdue for a new game engine. Has been since last gen....


----------



## Change is Good

Even Fallout 4, from a beloved franchise, got flak for its out-dated engine despite how fun it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pot calling the kettle black.

BF has looked and played the same since Bad Company 1. A change in engine doesn't mean much when the core is still similar. The same way CoD4 has played the same since CoD4 at it's inner core, so has BF.


----------



## Change is Good

I can't comment on that because I only play on console. The jump from BF3 on PS3 to BF4 on PS4 was dramatic enough for my (getting older) eyes. When I demoed Ghosts and played the BO3 beta I felt like I was still on PS3.

Sorry man. While the BF games may look the same graphically in the latest gen, it's still miles ahead of CoD's IW engine. Why do you think Frostbite is use on so many of EA's titles?


----------



## Change is Good

When it's all said and done, however, I foresee BF4 still being the go to title for fans of the franchise. This new WW1 setting is intruiging, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it will have the variety that BF4 has to offer. Hardline (I know its Visceral, but still a BF title) and Battlefront (though not a BF title, still DICE), lacked the variety that distinguishes this franchise from the rest.

I played the crap out of BC2, BF3, and BF4 because every single battle within each respective title was different. Having various ways to attack my enemies, all 12 to 32 of them, is what has me hooked on BF games. Small 6v6 battles doesn't tickle my fancy, anymore. These days, maps should be designed for 12v12, at the least. No excuse not to do so unless it is a tactical shooter like Rainbow 6 or something like that. Another reason why I think CoD gets much criticism. It just doesn't feel like 'warfare' as their titles claim to be. Not anymore.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I agree with you MLE in regards to both franchises always being compared when they really shouldn't. They will always endure this kind of comparison, unfortunately, because they are both military FPSers and always release the same time of year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I hate it when CoD maps are too big. It's why I prefer CoD in general. The small, paintball-esque gameplay and maps. It's when they strayed away from it to make it bigger, that they lost their touch. it's a large reason why people are so ready for the Remaster. Going back to the smaller scale combat.

BF just takes too long for things to get going.


----------



## Change is Good

That's because those CoD maps don't have the content to fill in the gaps like the core BFs do. That game really is meant for paintball-esque gameplay, as you say. BF is the exact opposite, which makes it all the reason why NOT to compare the two.

But I was referring to server capacity, not map size. I never have a problem getting things going in BF


----------



## thuNDa

Dolby Atmos              0:15 - 5:16
 SBX-Surround (33%)  5:16 - end


----------



## Fegefeuer

Fenks, Thunda. I'm at work right now and can't listen to it. 

What do you personally think about Atmos for Headphones with its first entry?


----------



## rudyae86

thunda said:


> Dolby Atmos              0:15 - 5:16
> 
> SBX-Surround (33%)  5:16 - end




Whoaaa. What kind of black magic is this?

I'm very much impressed!

SBX now sounds more processed after watching this video lol.

Atmos doesnt really have any reverb like Dolby Headphone. Sounds spherical and sound quality doesn't sound degraded with Atmos.

Sounds as if all the sounds were really stitched together very finely with spider web in Atmos lol.

Im using my Monemtum Over ears right now since im in bed....its 5am and woke up since 2:30am, so my opinion might not be accurate lol


----------



## thuNDa

fegefeuer said:


> Fenks, Thunda. I'm at work right now and can't listen to it.
> 
> What do you personally think about Atmos for Headphones with its first entry?


 
 It's hard to tell.
 SBX sounds a bit cleaner to me, and the left/right panning of SBX(33%!) represents more what i see on screen.
 Other than that there is not much of a difference, since all the stuff Atmos is capable of, seems to be integrated directly into the soundengine anyway.
 After turning Atmos on, it felt a bit like turning the good old CMSS-3D on.


----------



## rudyae86

thunda said:


> It's hard to tell.
> SBX sounds a bit cleaner to me, and the left/right panning of SBX(33%!) represents more what i see on screen.
> Other than that there is not much of a difference, since all the stuff Atmos is capable of, seems to be integrated directly into the soundengine anyway.
> After turning Atmos on, it felt a bit like turning the good old CMSS-3D on.




So thats why sbx sounds processed...33%.

Could you do another one with SBX at 100%?

Also, could you get footage of sound above you and below you?

That should be one of Atmos advantages in which it now delivers positional height cues...


----------



## thuNDa

rudyae86 said:


> So thats why sbx sounds processed...33%.
> 
> Could you do another one with SBX at 100%?
> 
> ...


 
 I don't find that it sounds processed, i find it even cleaner than Dolby Atmos there, and bit more open.
 Now SBX at 100% would sound processed alot.
  
 And the height cues are already integrated into the Wwise soundengine, as one can read here: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Lawlor_Neumann_Overwatch_Play_by_Sound.pdf


----------



## rudyae86

thunda said:


> I don't find that it sounds processed, i find it even cleaner than Dolby Atmos there, and bit more open.
> Now SBX at 100% would sound processed alot.
> 
> And the height cues are already integrated into the Wwise soundengine, as one can read here: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/gdc2016/Presentations/Lawlor_Neumann_Overwatch_Play_by_Sound.pdf




You're right, it does sound cleaner. Clearly being deprived from sleep doesn't make me pay attention or concentrate well lol.

I think the panning in Atmos is better though.

And the reason I only can think of why SBX sounds cleaner compared to Atmos may be because of how Atmos actually has more control of the ambient sounds or the way it processes all of the sounds in which it does it to purposely give the listener a good immersion and a listening feel of like being within the game or the way would actually hear sounds.

Also at 33%, I use to try it with my Recona3D and it sounds almost stereo like to me. I usually left it at 67% and moved up to 100% afterwards which gave me more of an immersion and made the rear "speakers" stand out more.

I still use it on my PS4 but hardly use the PS4 itself since I game more often on my PC...would like to try Overwatch with my set up which is Asus Xonar DG (For Dolby Headphone) optical out to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber>Cayin C5 portable Amp>Fidelio X2, HD598 or K7XX.

But I really dont have time right now to try the beta  because werk, werk, werk.....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not particularly impressed with Atmos. Sound separation was lacking. The 'lack' of processing is a double edged sword in that yes, it may sound clean, but it also can end up a bit stereo-esque with a lack of the depth that makes discerning location and distance harder..

Also, I dunno why, but Thunda's SBX vids don't exactly match up with what I hear from, the X7 in my own testing.

Dolby Atmos sounds good, don't get me wrong. Just not better than SBX and DH in terms of surround effect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> That's because those CoD maps don't have the content to fill in the gaps like the core BFs do. That game really is meant for paintball-esque gameplay, as you say. BF is the exact opposite, which makes it all the reason why NOT to compare the two.
> 
> But I was referring to server capacity, not map size. I never have a problem getting things going in BF




The content? Like BF has a lot of content. I'd take 20 minutes trying to find someone to kill in BF games. The maps are unnecessarily huge.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> I'm not particularly impressed with Atmos. Sound separation was lacking. The 'lack' of processing is a double edged sword in that yes, it may sound clean, but it also can end up a bit stereo-esque with a lack of the depth that makes discerning location and distance harder..
> 
> Also, I dunno why, but Thunda's SBX vids don't exactly match up with what I hear from, the X7 in my own testing.
> 
> Dolby Atmos sounds good, don't get me wrong. Just not better than SBX and DH in terms of surround effect.




Well Dolby Atmos for headphones is still pretty new, even more so Overwatch being the first game to have it. And I think it also comes down to the developers as to how they implement Atmos into games.

I think we will start asking more questions then getting answers for now. On top of that, we need to test it ourselves with different set ups. 

I'm sure there is more room for improvement amd this also will give companies a chance to improve and introduce new technologies for the coming years.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> The content? Like BF has a lot of content. I'd take 20 minutes trying to find someone to kill in BF games. The maps are unnecessarily huge.




Not sure how you play but I never have that problem you have lol.

I'm always in the action in BF games.


----------



## SouDesu

Just a quick question.
 Will a Xonar U3 -(optical)-> Modi Uber -> Magni -> headphones work and get Dolby Headphones while utilizing the Modi as DAC and Magni as AMP?


----------



## Yethal

soudesu said:


> Just a quick question.
> Will a Xonar U3 -(optical)-> Modi Uber -> Magni -> headphones work and get Dolby Headphones while utilizing the Modi as DAC and Magni as AMP?


 

 Yup.
   


mad lust envy said:


> I'm not particularly impressed with Atmos. Sound separation was lacking. The 'lack' of processing is a double edged sword in that yes, it may sound clean, but it also can end up a bit stereo-esque with a lack of the depth that makes discerning location and distance harder..
> 
> Also, I dunno why, but Thunda's SBX vids don't exactly match up with what I hear from, the X7 in my own testing.
> 
> Dolby Atmos sounds good, don't get me wrong. Just not better than SBX and DH in terms of surround effect.


 


 He uses SBX set to 33% for some reason.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Not sure how you play but I never have that problem you have lol.
> 
> I'm always in the action in BF games.




A real battlefield can sometimes be overwhelming to others not familiar with the formula


----------



## thuNDa

yethal said:


> He uses SBX set to 33% for some reason.


 
  
 Yes, because it feels to me as close as possible to CMSS-3D, positionalwise.
  


studiosound said:


> I did a lot of testing/measurement when I got my card:
> 
> 33% is the point at which the channels are most distinct with SBX Pro Studio Surround.
> Higher than that starts to blend the channels together more to create a more cohesive ring of sound, reducing some of the directionality and increasing the reverb.
> ...


 
  
 Before i read this, i used 30% by feel, but i absolutly hated the L/R panning from 67% and higher, and i trust this guy based on the thing he wrote about clipping with surround enabled.
  
  


mad lust envy said:


> I'm not particularly impressed with Atmos. Sound separation was lacking. The 'lack' of processing is a double edged sword in that yes, it may sound clean, but it also can end up a bit stereo-esque with a lack of the depth that makes discerning location and distance harder..
> 
> Also, I dunno why, but Thunda's SBX vids don't exactly match up with what I hear from, the X7 in my own testing.
> 
> Dolby Atmos sounds good, don't get me wrong. Just not better than SBX and DH in terms of surround effect.


 

 If you mean, that you don't get the same results when setting it to 33%, then it might be, that they did the same to the X7 surround, what they did to the G5(which i sent back btw, due to how they messed with the surround, soundquality was great tho 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





).
  
 As i see it, they used Dolby Atmos in this game only to process multichannel for headphones, and did all the stuff like height cues, occlusion ect. in the (Wwise) soundengine itself.
 So it could have been like back in the day with OpenAL, and 128 voices processed separatly to HRTF, but i doubt it, because it seems to be a last minute update, to implement Dolby Atmos.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Well, I'll be damned. Overwatch turned out to be one of those few games that has a built-in headphone mix that actually doesn't suck! That video was some good stuff, thuNDa!
  
 I remember testing out Atmos in the SW:BF3 open beta and being thoroughly disappointed. No directionality, no depth, it was like it was a broken implementation. Went back to CMSS-3D Headphone immediately for that one.
  
 As for BF1, well, I didn't think they'd actually go that far back, but when you take Codename: Eagle into account, it could indeed be going back to the series roots since that game was effectively the franchise spiritual predecessor.
  
 Maybe they could make it work, but knowing EA, they'll lock half the content behind Premium for a hefty sum.


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> Well, I'll be damned. Overwatch turned out to be one of those few games that has a built-in headphone mix that actually doesn't suck! That video was some good stuff, thuNDa!
> 
> I remember testing out Atmos in the SW:BF3 open beta and being thoroughly disappointed. No directionality, no depth, it was like it was a broken implementation. Went back to CMSS-3D Headphone immediately for that one.
> 
> ...




Didn't know SW BF had Dolby Atmos for headphones? As far as I know and have read, it was meant to be used with an AV that supports Atmos via HDMI.

But I could be wrong but I cant recall ever reading Atmos for headphones in SWBF.

As for BF1...I'm stoked lol. But as much as we want to go back to old times and having all content that was meant to be available, I wouldn't be surprised if EA makes half a game and delivers the rest as DLC.

Sadly this is the business model and its here to stay....

I will still purchase the game at its full price...and this is probably the first time in 9 years I actually will pay $60 dollars plus tax for a game.

I wont purchase its DLC right away until i see what is being offered and the price has lowered lol.

I dont even have DLC/season pass for SWBF and the game itself lacks so much content, ranked up to lvel 50 and have not touched it since.

/little rant over.

I hope more games come out with an implementation of Atmos that is very well done for us gamers to take advantage of.

At least this is the first step to better sound in games and more so with the introduction of VR gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Battlefront does not have Atmos for Headphones.
Overwatch is the first and so far only


----------



## cskippy

If I'm looking to add SBX to my current chain of Gumby->Carbon->HE-6/HD650 would the Sound Blaster Z be the cheapest best option?  TOSLINK from Z to Gumby?


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes


----------



## odib

I'm still hoping the Turtle Beach TAC will be able to send processed virtual surround sound via optical out. I googled translated the page and it only mentioned using the Ethernet for daisy chaining chat. So fingers crossed 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  

 http://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/turtle-beach-elite-pro-tournament-p32725/turtle-beach-presente-son-nouveau-casque-elite-pro-tournament-n51959.html


----------



## Yethal

odib said:


> I'm still hoping the Turtle Beach TAC will be able to send processed virtual surround sound via optical out. I googled translated the page and it only mentioned using the Ethernet for daisy chaining chat. So fingers crossed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Looks more like a passthrough. Astro A50 has one too.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Don't expect such features from companies like astro, tb and Co. they mostly aim at casual users and pro gamers. Both mostly with zero clue about audio and 0 care. The latter is fine with DEDICATED STEREO GAMING and relies upon other stuff anyway (skill, communication, knowledge of maps, mechanics, blabla - which is fine.)

Nobody does passthrough like Creative does in more than 10 years and even they don't bother mostly as we can see with the X7.

Also Asus only did this with their xonar cards because Creative did. Sometimes I wonder if Creative just doesn't wanna win and relies upon others to "lose" because those others can't get their game right


----------



## Evshrug

Just mentioning, the firmware update I just did to Creative's E5 last night added a checkbox for headphone surround processed output through optical. It's funny to me, because the E5's control panel demos the surround effect pretty well, but the G5's Blaster X suite doesn't sound right to me. Configured with 7.1 surround, the front speakers sound good, but the side speakers sound EXACTLY the same as the rear speakers, and in fact the crossover is so strong that the left and right sides barely sound different from eachother. Rears also don't sound like they're behind me at any surround setting, so the soundstage is just a half dome or semi-circle. I haven't played a PC game with it yet though, and people say on the G5 thread that games sound better than the control panel. I'd still recommend the E5 over the G5 because of the microphones, Bluetooth, battery, etc.

I was just on Scuf gaming's website (they finally have a PS4 controller comparable to the Scuf Xbox controllers), and they had a quote from an MLG player saying something like "People are always asking what kind of gear is needed to go pro, I always say get a Scuf, a monitor, and a headset. In that order." Yay marketing (because I agree with Fege, you absolutely need the skills, teamwork, and practice to be a fundamentally good player), but at least audio shows up on their list of acknowledged gear that gives the player an advantage. Even if it is mentioned dead-last.

Off topic but would be great to know, does anyone have a PS4 Scuf controller? I realize you only get a pair of paddles (fine with me), but is the back and bottom of a Scuf controller reshaped at all compared to a DualShock 4 stock? Hopefully with more comfort?


----------



## conquerator2

odib said:


> I'm still hoping the Turtle Beach TAC will be able to send processed virtual surround sound via optical out. I googled translated the page and it only mentioned using the Ethernet for daisy chaining chat. So fingers crossed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 It won't pass processed surround through optical [read: they don't wanna allow it because they want you to use their headphones and gear]. I was able to confirm that with TB back at last year's E3


----------



## Yethal

If I remember correctly the TAC is going to use the same DAC chip as Schiit Fulla. Maybe at least it can be modified for line-out which, paired with the AKM4396 would make a decent sounding setup.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Anyone use IEMs for gaming? If so how do they compare to full sized headphones in a similar price range? 
Imagine they would be great for portable games.


----------



## Evshrug

^I'll quote some posts we had on this subject two or three days ago, once I get time (my next break). Or, you could scroll back a few pages if you don't want to wait a few hours.


----------



## Evshrug

Looks like you were posting in the midst of these posts that answered your question, and my big post about IEMs also quoted and answered one of your other questions, but here they are anyway. Hopefully you read this time:



yethal said:


> You'd be surprised how great can the earphones be when it comes to the positional audio. The best rendition of the Virtual Barbershop I've ever heard was on the Fiio EM3 which are 10$ earbuds. Really, try any binaural recording with earphones, You'll be blown away.







evshrug said:


> Ok, so think about it this way:
> Balanced armatures (the most common drivers in IEMs) are like miniature planar drivers. They're very small and super efficient, so you don't need powerful amps to power them with authority and tight tight control. And then, the more expensive ones will have three or more (I've seen 12!) different BAs that are specially tuned to play a dedicated range of frequencies really well, so you might have one BA tuned to play highs, one for mids, and another BA (or Dynamic driver) play the lows. Sometimes different frequencies are separated to play through different tubes right up until they reach your ear canal.
> 
> The result of this is almost no bleeding-over effect, and stunning clarity and detail. Clarity helps your ear and brain distinguish between a sound that happened at a distance right in front of your face, and a sound that happened 20' away, slightly to the left. Imaging, the sense of a sound's direction, and separation, the sense of two different instruments not blending together into one, both are greatly enhanced by the clarity and resolution of a headphone.
> ...







evshrug said:


> Priced between $100 and $300? Uh, yeah, tons of IEM options in that price range, many 3-way IEMs. Not that 2-way are bad. I really liked the RHA lineup, even the $50 S500i was impressive but the T20i is awesome (plus 3 year warranty, tuning filter) at like...$229. Alclair Curve IEMs are awesome and quite comfortable. I haven't heard the Audio Technica IEMs around $100-$150, but apparently they are awesome as well, especially the red ones.







axelcloris said:


> You can also get custom IEMs starting at $200 and going up from there. If you want to game for hours custom is probably the way to go because they're so much more comfortable than universals.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Thank you that definitely helps.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Speaking of IEMs and gaming, I know that someone favored the Etymotic ER-4P for gaming to the extent that Etymotic actually went and made a variant called the EDGE Acoustics GX-400 that includes an in-line mic, specifically to market as a gaming headset.
  
 IEMs are generally something I haven't considered much for serious listening due to the comfort factor, however. Customs resolve the comfort problem nicely, I'm sure, but are pretty expensive and have next to no resale value for obvious reasons.


----------



## Hansotek

namelesspfg said:


> Speaking of IEMs and gaming, I know that someone favored the Etymotic ER-4P for gaming to the extent that Etymotic actually went and made a variant called the EDGE Acoustics GX-400 that includes an in-line mic, specifically to market as a gaming headset.
> 
> IEMs are generally something I haven't considered much for serious listening due to the comfort factor, however. Customs resolve the comfort problem nicely, I'm sure, but are pretty expensive and have next to no resale value for obvious reasons.


 
  
 I would imagine their new ER4XR will be quite nice for gaming when it comes out. It has a similar sound, but with just a touch of extra bass goodness, which I found to be quite enjoyable. And the cable is user replaceable, so you could toss on an in-line mic for gaming, if you wanted.


----------



## Evshrug

I always liked Etymotic, had a more accurate sound and MUCH LESS distorted audio than the first two levels of Shure IEMs when I first compared them... in 2006. When I bought my First audiophile headphones, Etymotic ER•6i.

Shure and Ety have improved since then, but Etymotic had a program for awhile where they had a rebate program to lessen the cost of getting custom eartips made for their universal headphones. So, you get the resale value of universals with the advantages/benefits of custom.

The edge brand had an awesome website, but I'm not sure if the brand is still around/being used.


----------



## CSGOnerd

Hey! I currently got a sennheiser g4me one headset but I want to try some headphones to see if they're better. Which one is the best for 80% FPS gaming (csgo) and 20% music/movies. I have looked at AKG 701/7xx/702 (don't know the difference except price), AD700x, Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm. If you got any other suggestions feel free to tell me. They have to be in the same price range as the ones I listed though.
 Also I got a Xonar DG soundcard if it's going to help.


----------



## thuNDa

so i just ordered an AKG 712 Pro, do you guys think it's good for gaming too? lol


----------



## conquerator2

Of course...


----------



## Fegefeuer

thunda said:


> so i just ordered an AKG 712 Pro, do you guys think it's good for gaming too? lol


 
  
 Kindly ask MLE to review the K7XX series finally! IT'S ABOUT TIME


----------



## Change is Good

It's more of the same as the rest of the AKG 700 series so I doubt it. I'd rather see him review a <$100 budget headphone like the new HE-350 or 9500.


----------



## lenroot77

thunda said:


> so i just ordered an AKG 712 Pro, do you guys think it's good for gaming too? lol




There is a review on the first page. The K7xx is near identical and is often recommended here for gaming as well.


----------



## thuNDa

lenroot77 said:


> There is a review on the first page. The K7xx is near identical and is often recommended here for gaming as well.


 

 I've read that, and it influecend me alot in my decision(thx for this MLE), but just had to post about my purchase, sorry. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 Now i only have my >10y/o HD590's, which i never planned to upgrade, but then you come to this forum to discuss virtual surround, and not two weeks later after reading about headphones too, you're 250€(amazon warehouse deals) poorer.


----------



## Evshrug

thunda said:


> so i just ordered an AKG 712 Pro, do you guys think it's good for gaming too? lol




Good? Haha! I had mine for 2.5 years, had to spend over $700 before I found a headphone that I clearly liked better (for gaming and music double-duty). There were some that came close to beating it, but they cost more and weren't better enough (IMO) to be worth owning instead.
You really can camp out on the AKG's for a long time, bettering the rest of your system and enjoying how it scales up. Sure, the AKG may only cost $250, but you should hear it with a Schiit Bifrost, Chord Mojo, a nice tube amp or smooth powerful desktop amp, high quality files... it's amazing how well it scales up with good gear. It also does just a stellar job with surround processing and imaging. And then, if and when you do decide to upgrade, the rest of your audio chain is ready to help you hear the upgrade!


----------



## Evshrug

csgonerd said:


> Hey! I currently got a sennheiser g4me one headset but I want to try some headphones to see if they're better. Which one is the best for 80% FPS gaming (csgo) and 20% music/movies. I have looked at AKG 701/7xx/702 (don't know the difference except price), AD700x, Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm. If you got any other suggestions feel free to tell me. They have to be in the same price range as the ones I listed though.
> Also I got a Xonar DG soundcard if it's going to help.



The AD700x has good imaging and soundstage, but it's all about a sparkly treble and thin mids and bass. Pads are velour and the headphone is super lightweight, but the way it grips your head (stock) is weird and the pads are so broad they rest around and on your ears. Cable is not detachable, but very nice 3 meter silver cable and a screw-on 1/8" to 1/4" adapter.

The AKG K701 is a step up in resolution, imaging, and more refined treble... a little more "involving" in the mids and bass with better bass extension than the AD700, but still the lightest mids and bass of the 3 AKGs you mentioned. In their heyday and introduction, these were like the Sennheiser HD800 of their time, intended for mastering and professional use with a reference sound signature. Angled pads rest completely around your ears, velour is pretty soft and good but/and the cushioning doesn't flatten much. Headband bumps. Non-detachable cable and 1/8" to 1/4" adapter.

The K7XX is like a K701 Anniversary like MLE reviewed, with more bass, flat (non-angled) pads with a tad more squish (the tips of your ears may touch the felt covering the driver), more well-rounded than the K701 and a slightly warmer than flat/reference sound (but pretty close). Comes with one detachable cable and a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter (screw on type).

The Annies (K701 65th Anniversary) is the same design as the K7xx and same general sound, but AKG is a little more picky about driver matching and picking out the "A+" grade drivers, but unless you love the color and collectability, probably not worth the extra $$$. I don't know about accessories (probably at least a 1/8" to 1/4" adapter!).

The K712 I had (and sent to MLE for his review) is like the K701 65th Annies, but the depth of the memory foam pads was a little increased (and measured by AKG as +3dB boosted bass, though my burned-in Q701's that were used for thousands of hours and probably had some Earpad deflation/degradation/skin oils would produce more bass). I do believe AKG was a bit more picky about driver selection here too (at least with the early Austrian-made models, that was the only kind I heard), because my Q701 didn't sound quite as refined (and still had more bass) compared to my K712 when I used the same pair of pads on both headphones. The K712 came with a 3-meter orange cable and a coiled cable, 1/4" adapter.

The K702 is kinda in-between the K701 and K712, sound-signature wise, and has seen a few variations over time. Cool dark-navy color scheme. It has angled pads like the K701 (and Q701), and detachable cable with a 1/4" adapter.

Beyerdynamic DT990... I am honestly afraid to try these. I know some people love these, but I owned the DT880 for a month, tried to love it but the highs fatigued me, leading to excess earwax production and physical pain, and my first experience with tinnitus. Some people say the treble is so clean that they don't experience the problems I had (even with a tube amp), I tried them because there were several very positive reviews, but given my experience I feel like I have a responsibility to at least warn people to listen with caution. The DT990 is supposed to have even MORE TREBLE (and bass). Beyer makes quite soft Earpads and puts a lot of padding on the headband, but I still got headband hotspots after extended wearing. Also, perminent cables and a 1/4" adapter.

-----

Of the above, I probably would recommend a Kxx or K702, whichever seems better to you.

You could always try the other kind of pad too if you want two kinds of fit and small sound differences. Another cool option is the K612, but that's a deceptively power (current) hungry headphone, so you'd probably be best off spending the price difference on a better desktop amp. I'd like to try the FiiO K5 some day, the current-mode Liquid Carbon did wonders for my K612 (almost obscene, eh?) and made it almost planar-like in it's speed and performance. The K5 is also current-mode, but I haven't heard it and only speculate


----------



## delfine22

csgonerd said:


> Hey! I currently got a sennheiser g4me one headset but I want to try some headphones to see if they're better. Which one is the best for 80% FPS gaming (csgo) and 20% music/movies. I have looked at AKG 701/7xx/702 (don't know the difference except price), AD700x, Beyerdynamic DT 990 250 ohm. If you got any other suggestions feel free to tell me. They have to be in the same price range as the ones I listed though.
> Also I got a Xonar DG soundcard if it's going to help.


 

 you're better off with the 702s.


----------



## henhowc

what settings are you guys using with uncharted 4?
  
 i have an x2 with dss1


----------



## Fegefeuer

change is good said:


> It's more of the same as the rest of the AKG 700 series so I doubt it. I'd rather see him review a <$100 budget headphone like the new HE-350 or 9500.


 
  
 It was a joke because clearly the first page has enough hints about how good a 712 can be for gaming and I meant the K7XX series not the Massdrop release. Now I explained my joke and realize it never worked.


----------



## eltorrete

evshrug said:


> Good? Haha! I had mine for 2.5 years, had to spend over $700 before I found a headphone that I clearly liked better (for gaming and music double-duty).


 
 What has been your choice to improve K712?


----------



## Fegefeuer

eltorrete said:


> What has been your choice to improve K712?


 
  
 I guess it's the HD 800. And it's a natural choice. Soundstage, imaging, detail, hard tight bass, albeit with the curse of a good chain.


----------



## conquerator2

Or maybe the S version


----------



## Fegefeuer

Not for 700 bucks, although it'd be awesome if he managed to grabe one at that price.


----------



## Yethal

IIRC there was a crazy deal on a regular HD800 awhile back and Evs bought them.


----------



## Yethal

*Why Fedex is the best company in the world.*​  
 A month ago I ordered the SRH1840 and delivery was supposed to go via Fedex. You can find my full rants by searching this thread by the keyword "Fedex". In short: it took them four days to deliver the package even though the store I bought the headphones from is also located in Warsaw. Fedex was trying to deliver the package at around 1pm even though most adult people are at work around 1pm. I had to file a formal complaint with them, they accepted it and finally after a week I got my headphones. So, why am I telling you about this now?
  
 I just received a formal apology letter from Fedex. It was delivered by a courier. Around 1pm.


----------



## Evshrug

I tried some refurb HD700, they were a bit better in some ways (thicker midbass and a bit more musical) but the K712 still did treble better and was clearer/more detailed throughout, and I had an easier sense of imaging and surround processing. It was heavier too, in the end it didn't justify the price increase (even though I got them at an INSANE price!)

Before that I tried HE-400, that was more of a fun can but the mids were too sucked out for me, and it was too heavy. MLE's velour pads and my tube amp did help, but it just wasn't for me.

The Oppo PM-3 was more detailed/crisper than the K712 sometimes, but I felt the bass was lacking deep extension and it would only have been a secondary headphone for me.

Right now, Stillhart loaned me his HE-560. I had some difficulty giving it a fair test as you'll read below, but based on my head-time so far I think it's also a strong contender for a post-K712 upgrade. 

​
It's lighter than the HE-400, the new headbands are simple but comfortable, the earpads are leather-sided but velour where it touches the side of your head. It's decent velour, though the pads aren't _brand new_ and I can tell that my picky skin would be more comfortable if I shaved off my sideburns (and chinstrap). It's quite detailed and clear, becoming noticably more rich with my R2R DAC (a vintage Theta), with great vocals, separation, and probably my favourite part is the enhanced sub bass when a song calls for it or gets down with the funky. I've only listened for two/three days but I can tell it's a worthwhile/natural upgrade to the K712. ThurstonX went the same way after his Q701, and I bet Chicolom here would like it, but my friend I call "Tin Ears" will have to hear it to decide... the HE560 is an upgrade of the familiar AKG sound, but Tin Ears may prefer a more gooey warm sound that is different, like a ZMF Vibro MKII or LCD2, but then again he's less of a gamer and more into music.

The ZMF Vibro MKII was also great, taking the musical parts I liked best about the HD700 and doing it better and more clearly, with less brittle treble to boot. For a musical headphone, the imaging and clarity is very good. It's a bit heavier and doesn't have the soundstage of the AKGs, so not best in class for competitive gaming or marathon sessions sitting upright, but it is awesome for just jamming out to music or marathon sessions reclining on a couch. I also recently reviewed this headphone. I'll probably get one someday (with a burst finish on the wood cups!) as a secondary headphone for jamming out, it's pretty special.

The Oppo PM-2 was REALLY CLOSE for me! Thus the review (linked in signature). Nice bass extension, similar fundamentals as the AKG, had a very balanced signature with a touch less treble that I could listen to for hours and hours, and the super comfy velours really helped that. The sound had no gimmicks (except crisp response? Some people call this speed) to immediately grab your attention, no guilty pleasures, but it did please and I found myself almost always reaching for it and trying to take it with me to work to listen on my lunch break. Great imaging and sense of depth, even though the soundstage width wasn't as wide as the AKGs (few things are, like yo mamma! I'm kidding. Is she baking cookies soon?). The more transparent the DAC and amp, the better, but the PM-2 was amazingly easy to drive and sounded great from my iPhone, no Zeus-amps required. As a "next step," it was a toss-up for me between the PM-2 and HE-560, with the PM-2 more relaxed and the HE-560 more open. Why didn't I buy one after my time during the Oppo tour was up? Uh, well, I didn't have a lot of cash and my wedding planning was looking to be a lot more expensive, so I was waiting to catch an Oppo refurb, and I just never saw one in stock. The other reason was...

... I heard a Mr Speakers Ether and Ether C at RMAF 2015. Ooooooh my gosh. Gushing praise. Liked the weight, loved the headband and fit, surprisingly liked the leather (lambskin?) pads for hours.

I got to hear AxelCloris' Ether in a hotel room (I hope I didn't moan... too much), and I say hours because I listened to a bunch of Ethers on different rigs. Very musical headphone while also very detailed and distortion crushed down to imperceptible. I decided then that I was going to try to not mess around with other headphones and just save up for the open Ether, because of every headphone there and I'd ever heard, I decided it was my favorite. $1,400 didn't matter, I would save as long as it took to make that happen.

Boom.

... Life is funny though. RMAF was ALSO my first time hearing the HD800. Previously, I had been a bit "scared" because people said it was super amp and system picky, and they were forever chasing ways to get more bass and less treble out of it. After my DT880 experience, I was wary of any headphone people call too bright (funny since I had an ATH-AD700 for so long), and I had been so unimpressed with the HD700 the year before (based on Sennheiser's asking price... and IMO outperformed by the PM-2) that maybe Sennheiser as a brand was overrated.

​
Stillhart was lending Cavalli his DAC-19, and before the show started he had an A&K DAP (or a laptop) digitally supplying music to the DAC-19, a Cavalli Liquid Carbon (prototype), a $400 headphone cable (awesome red color, lol!), aaaand an HD800. Friends, the headphone is so big, that it's funny. Earpads are covered in that same microfibre cloth as the HD700 which feel a bit weird at first (and kinda oily on the refurb HD700, but not at RMAF), but they go completely around the ear and have nice distribution of pressure on the head, which balances with the headband distribution. The headband also has a notch taken out of the top center, which is appreciated to prevent a hotspot on the crest of my head.

"Dan, what should I listen to?"
"Uuuuh, anything? Here, try this:"

Awaak Awaaak! Paul Simon's "Diamonds on the Soles of her Shoes" burst forth and just shot shivers down my spine. One of two times that happened during RMAF. My fiancé laughed because my jaw just dropped! The bass, mids, so full and engaging, the treble was clean and extended. I had no neutrality boredom or sense of coldness, instead the (African?) backing vocals just sounded so rich and big, the guitar was so fun and detailed, brass trumpets were a joy, and the sound was so transparent like as if each instrument had it's own speaker (or simply was just an instrument). I had a huge conflict because I wanted to keep listening, but I took it off to make my fiancé listen because I thought it was so impressive and she would be able to see why I was audio enthusiastic (and stunned).

I tried the Ether for the first time right after that, with the same 3 songs I'd just demo'd on the HD800. My... earga... Uh, sexual innuendos aside, I was still riding the high from the HD800 and the Ether was equally musical (but no new shivers, because... yeah it probably would have if I'd listened to the Ether first, get me?), but side by side the Ether seemed to have less "air" or light haze between the instruments and my ear. The HD800 was incredibly clear and natural, but the Ether was just slightly more clear. I couldn't really identify why, but it also had something else different about it that made it my preference by a hair. At $1400 each, new, at the time, the Ether was my choice.

Outside that room, in the moderately noisy hubbub of the RMAF convention floor, it was cool to see the community headphone Ether popping up at the Schiit, Cavalli, and Creative Labs booths to use with their gear, but the HD800 (and HE1000) were EVERYWHERE a vendor had high-end amps and DACs for sale. Questyle proudly pointed out an advanced amp that was designed off of listening to the HD800 and perfecting it's sound, ALO audio talked about how their huge (studio six?) tubed amp 
​had power that was waaaay overkill but that kind of headroom was needed to unlock the HD800 and prevent the harshness they also saw in some people's HD800 reviews (I immediately thought of the current-mode amp and R2R DAC I'd heard in Stillhart's hotel room, maybe that was a little exotic but it sure seemed to also solve any treble "problems"), Moon Audio had a lot of cables to compare to the stock Sennheiser cable. Even after, what, 4 years? 8? The HD800 is a summit-fi headphone, clearly respected (except by some with old ones with a shocking amount of paint chips and ribbing, how do you treat a headphone that way?)


LOL, look at these accessory cables that were at the Questyle booth:
 
Headphone dreadlocks!


Aaaanyway, RMAF was super fun, but back home I had actually downsized to an AKG K612 because I felt it was a little more even than the K712 if amped decently (kinda like HD600 vs HD650), and the wedding looking like it was going to cost as much as a new car. I HAD ordered a Cavalli Liquid Carbon on last year's tax refund (and put the other half in savings) and that finally arrived in November, but otherwise I went back to enjoying my Mid-Fi values until "someday." Well, I got my tax-refund April, my wedding now looks like we'll hit a $7k-$8k budget, and suddenly the HD800 "s" hits and people start posting about fantastic used prices on the original HD800 on Amazon. I looked it up and saw one priced even lower – $812 shipped!! Whaaaat?! Jumped on that like a kitten pouncing on a laser dot. I'm still surprised to think I actually CAUGHT it. $812 is WRONG, just WRONG, and I feel so lucky. In my home, I appreciate it even more. The driver is so Big and Powerful that air actually tickles the surface of my ear (in a good way), and I get chills anytime I want to, and it sounds great with any song I feel like trying. Too bad it looks like literally strapping two speakers to the side of your head, because they sound awesome.
​Stillhart loaned me his HE-560, and I found I actually had to put the HD800 in the box and put it out of sight so I could give the HE-560 a fair listen, haha!


----------



## eltorrete

Thank you so much for your opinions
  
 I had on my list to open the K7xx, K712, HE-400i, HE-560 and closed Ether C.
  
 Ether C for now not come into my budget so that eventually buy a TH-X00 with that for now I'm very happy. The open/close are mostly for games and movies, to music I use at work a FLC8s.
  
  
 I'll have to add to the list the HD800


----------



## Evshrug

^thanks for the encouragement, it was kinda fun! Took me like 3 and a half hours to type into my phone though, hahaha!

Gotta point out, I haven't heard the HE-400i, just the HE400. Well, I mean, I heard the HE400i at RMAF, but not very long (the HE1000 and Edition X were right next to it!), so I don't remember much about it other than it had the same cool smoke-chrome color as the Edition X and an Apple Mac Pro.


----------



## Yethal

Wonderful writeup, really enjoyed that one.
  
 And the photos. Oh man, these will be great replacements for the Typical Headfier Andy template
  

  
 See the potential here?


----------



## Evshrug

Do the one with the Dreadcables!

Some people commented that they liked how I included a pic of me wearing the PM-2 in that review, so I decided to take a pic wearing each headphone I may review from now on. Also, Stillhart used to send me pics wearing exotic headphones from CanJams, with smug expressions. They were hilarious (and invited jealousy), so I tried doing that with the HE-560. HD800 pics look epic no matter what you do, haha!


----------



## Stillhart

Nice write-up, Evs.  I would like to point out that I had the same "wow" moment listening to the HD800 at RMAF with you.  I'd listened to it a few times and never understood the appeal until that day.  I ended up getting one as an upgrade from my HE-560 not too much later.  The only reason I'd recommend an HE-560 over an HD800 at this point is if your source chain isn't up to the HD800's rigorous requirements.
  
 I've heard many high end headphones on high end rigs since then and I still come back to the HD800.  There's going to be an event this weekend here in SoCal where people will get to demo the HD800 and HD800S on flagship gear (including the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten prototype... drooool!!) and decide which they like better.  (Link here.)  Should be fun if anyone reading this is considering the HD800 but wants to hear what all the hype is about.


----------



## AxelCloris

That was indeed an enjoyable RMAF. Hoping to see folks there again this year!
  
 I have to say my HD 800 "wow moment" first happened when I listened to is on the DNA Stratus and then again more recently when I got the chance to hear it on an early prototype of the Liquid Tungsten. Like Stillhart says the HE-560 is a great choice for those who don't have a system that can drive the HD 800 to it's max potential.
  
 The Ether is also incredibly sick for gaming, just sayin'.


----------



## lenroot77

You guys are trouble... Now that I have the liquid carbon and the Dac 19 myself I really wanna check out the hd800's 

Or maybe I'd get more out the he-560's with my chain?


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Do the one with the Dreadcables!
> 
> Some people commented that they liked how I included a pic of me wearing the PM-2 in that review, so I decided to take a pic wearing each headphone I may review from now on. Also, Stillhart used to send me pics wearing exotic headphones from CanJams, with smug expressions. They were hilarious (and invited jealousy), so I tried doing that with the HE-560. HD800 pics look epic no matter what you do, haha!


 
 I'm all for the pictures. They add a personal touch to the text, something that doesn't really happen when an author uses stock photos taken from manufacturer's website.


----------



## Stillhart

lenroot77 said:


> You guys are trouble... Now that I have the liquid carbon and the Dac 19 myself I really wanna check out the hd800's
> 
> Or maybe I'd get more out the he-560's with my chain?


 
  
 The "wow" moment Evs and I both had was on the DAC-19 and Liquid Carbon.  Just sayin.    I can only think of one other setup in the price range that I've heard sound as good with the HD800 and that's the Questyle CMA600i.
  
 You'll be pretty happy with the HE-560 on that setup also, but seeing as how the HD800 is so cheap these days and it'll scale with all your upgrades forevermore, it's not a bad option.  I bought the HD800 because I upgraded my amp to the Liquid Crimson and the HE-560 just wasn't cutting it.  I could hear the lack of resolution in the headphones that I never heard in the many months I'd owned them before.


----------



## lenroot77

stillhart said:


> The "wow" moment Evs and I both had was on the DAC-19 and Liquid Carbon.  Just sayin.    I can only think of one other setup in the price range that I've heard sound as good with the HD800 and that's the Questyle CMA600i.
> 
> You'll be pretty happy with the HE-560 on that setup also, but seeing as how the HD800 is so cheap these days and it'll scale with all your upgrades forevermore, it's not a bad option.  I bought the HD800 because I upgraded my amp to the Liquid Crimson and the HE-560 just wasn't cutting it.  I could hear the lack of resolution in the headphones that I never heard in the many months I'd owned them before.




Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something


----------



## Evshrug

stillhart said:


> Nice write-up, Evs.  I would like to point out that I had the same "wow" moment listening to the HD800 at RMAF with you. ...



Yeah, glad I was not the only one! I remember you saying it was the first time you liked it... Thanks for tearing it off your head to share with me!




> I've heard many high end headphones on high end rigs since then and I still come back to the HD800.  There's going to be an event this weekend here in SoCal where people will get to demo the HD800 and HD800S on flagship gear (including the Cavalli Liquid Tungsten prototype... drooool!!) and decide which they like better.  (Link here.)  Should be fun if anyone reading this is considering the HD800 but wants to hear what all the hype is about.



Drool drool drooool... But I can't make it. Meets are next-level Head-Fi fun for sure. I'm still glad the HD800s brought down the price of my HD800!




lenroot77 said:


> You guys are trouble... Now that I have the liquid carbon and the Dac 19 myself I really wanna check out the hd800's
> 
> Or maybe I'd get more out the he-560's with my chain?



Nope. Your setup is primed for the HD800


----------



## speakerlao

I ended up returning the Philips SHP9500 despite giving them good praise. They were really comfy and really good for music, but the soundstage width was just lacking too much for gaming and my taste. I think the MA900 spoiled me. If you don't care about competitive gaming, they are really good for immersion. If you want to "sound whore" in multiplayer games, avoid them.


----------



## rudyae86

speakerlao said:


> I ended up returning the Philips SHP9500 despite giving them good praise. They were really comfy and really good for music, but the soundstage width was just lacking too much for gaming and my taste. I think the MA900 spoiled me. If you don't care about competitive gaming, they are really good for immersion. If you want to "sound whore" in multiplayer games, avoid them.




Yes, its soundstage isnt great but its imaging is pretty good, pretty great actually and can still be used for competitive gaming.

It may not be up there with the Q701, MA900, AD700 or even the HD598 in competitive gaming but the SHP9500 imaging picks-up the lack of soundstage. I dont think their sound signature favors immersion much, it does lack real punch when it comes to the lower end, no boom.

But all in all, its a great headphone for its price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Uncharted 4 has some fantastic audio, particularly for headphone gaming in surround. This is quite a change fro the earlier titles which didn't do headphone gaming justice, IMHO. Definitely set it to Home Theater with stuff like SBX and DH.



change is good said:


> It's more of the same as the rest of the AKG 700 series so I doubt it. I'd rather see him review a <$100 budget headphone like the new HE-350 or 9500.




Un dia que no sea hoy. 

My new toy is mostly away from audio stuff. Something that I'm in love with, with the exception of an issue it has that I had to make a thread on avs about. Considering the issue happens with the MAIN reason I bought it in the first place, I'm kinda irked by it. Replacing it, and testing other ones at the store yielded the same exact results.

Anywhoo...

My new toy (which I'm paying with vacation buy back money this year and next) :'(

http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-p-series-review-2016/

65" of this beauty.

And here's my thread on the issue I'm having, BUT is something I can fix everytime (just a hassle since I have to fix it every time I turn it on)

Hopefully a firmware update will address the issue.


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2451386-vizio-2016-p-series-65-75-motion-issues-thread-gamers-take-note.html#post43966986

Yes, it is worth it even with the issue.

I had a long stem of arguments with some people trying to basically sweep the issue under the rug, on its main thread. So I had to make my own thread. Apparently, talking about an issue I have clear evidence of is taboo for like 3 jackasses that just kept trying to argue. The internet emboldens the worst kinds of idiots. One of them who is apparently highly respected, kept trying suggest using a mode that adds like 3x the input lag, and I'm just like "IS THIS GUY SERIOUS?"


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe just accepted that they can't have their cake and eat it too? Sometimes acceptance is the enemy of progress. I don't suppose they were gamers too?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Uncharted 4 has some fantastic audio, particularly for headphone gaming in surround. This is quite a change fro the earlier titles which didn't do headphone gaming justice, IMHO. Definitely set it to Home Theater with stuff like SBX and DH.
> Un dia que no sea hoy.
> 
> My new toy is mostly away from audio stuff. Something that I'm in love with, with the exception of an issue it has that I had to make a thread on avs about. Considering the issue happens with the MAIN reason I bought it in the first place, I'm kinda irked by it. Replacing it, and testing other ones at the store yielded the same exact results.
> ...




Wow...didnt know you knew this much about TVs lol.

And you pretty much have prove of whats going on yet, peope still argue about it? Seems like the AVS forums isnt so friendly.

I wonder if Vizio plays the lottery panel like Samsung? Its been know that companies nowadays do that in order to meet demand of HDTVs and so have other panels installed in different brand sets, which is pretty shady if you ask me.

Guess I will have to follow you in AVS forums now since I am looking for a new TV for my PS4.

Using a 27 inch monitor from BenQ isnt big enough for watching movies.

For me, input lag is a big factor when it comes to gaming, especially FPS games. Of course, nobody wants ghosting either.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Wow, that's pretty crap, and then I think back to how our E420i-A0 has no firmware updates and is stupidly crippled at 60 Hz input despite allegedly being a 120 Hz set.
  
 I always considered modern HDTVs with all their processing to be pretty awful for motion processing anyway. Gotta get a proper computer monitor if you can live with the smaller size; at least there, the refresh rates are real, and you can even get G-SYNC or FreeSync nowadays if your wallet permits.
  
 Then again, I'm still using old professional CRT monitors in 2016! Can't top that for input lag and motion clarity! Still need to get my FW900 fixed, but as long as my GDM-5410 holds out, I'll manage.
  
 If both die, though... well, guess I better get used to 1920x1080 60 Hz on a 13.3" screen, cringeworthy as it sounds to use a certain new acquisition as my main monitor like that and not just an auxiliary monitor.


----------



## Yethal

If only TV controllers were customizable. Imagine being able to pick any desired amount of inputs/outputs, built-in filtering and then find a panel with desired size resolution and refresh rate. I'd like to leave in that kind of world.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!




SonyKDL42W705B42"LED LCD14ms 6ms 


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



 


  
SonyKDL42W65342"LED LCD15ms 6ms  SonyKDL55W955B55"LED LCD17ms 6ms  SonyKDL-47W805A47"LED LCD17ms 6ms   SonyKDL46W90546"LED LCD20ms 8ms  SonyKDL55W905A55"LED LCD20ms 8ms  SamsungUE55KS900055"LED LCD21ms N/ASamsungUE48JU750048"LED LCD21ms N/ASamsungUE65JS950065"LED LCD21ms N/A SamsungUE55KS750055"LED LCD22ms N/A



 Here you go!


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> If only TV controllers were customizable. Imagine being able to pick any desired amount of inputs/outputs, built-in filtering and then find a panel with desired size resolution and refresh rate. I'd like to leave in that kind of world.


 
  
 Funny thing is, I've been hoping for something similar for over a decade, considering we had an old HDTV obsoleted by its lack of HDMI (it's an old rear-projection CRT set).
  
 There's also the IBM T220/T221 - a line of 22.1" monitors with 3840x2400 resolution *in 2001!* Unfortunately, the DVI interfaces of the day weren't up to snuff and had to drive it in a tiled fashion. That panel would've really benefited from the modern DisplayPort interface and all its bandwidth.
  
 And for retrogaming's sake, some 15/24 KHz RGB inputs with a good low-latency scaler and optional scanline emulation built-in would be great for old computers, consoles and arcade boards, but that's a niche of a niche.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> 3840x2400 resolution *in 2001!*


 
 I can read the words but am unable to comprehend them.


----------



## Change is Good

Glad to see some of you guys upgrading into summit fi. For now, I'm stuck where I am with the X00 and 400i. Happy to have them and grateful to have had the funds when I did, because it will probably be a looooong time until I buy any more audio gear.

PS: Please no more pictures, Ev. I thought I was bald and ugly. Yikes


----------



## Change is Good

There. That should be a little easier on the eyes when entering this thread, now.


----------



## Evshrug

I don't have any compunctions about who I am or how I look 

I would have been seriously happy with both a TH-X00 and HE-400i for as long as you have had yours, no shame in enjoying yours! You know I loved and stuck with the K612 too for years.


----------



## AxelCloris

Since we're sharing photos of gear, here's my current desktop setup.
  

  
 And yes, this is my gaming rig for PC.


----------



## Evshrug

That is one sexy/erect thumb you've got there mate!


----------



## AxelCloris

The secret is soaking the nails in butter-lard (a 50/50 mix of butter and lard, duh) for 3 hours a day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Wow...didnt know you knew this much about TVs lol.




TVs were my love a lot longer than Headphones were. 






> For me, input lag is a big factor when it comes to gaming, especially FPS games. Of course, nobody wants ghosting either.




This TV has one HDMI input (HDMI 5) that is incredibly fast on input lag. On the realm of 17-20ms, which is mostly unheard of on big name TVs.

The motion handling is almost as good as the best plasmas I've owned, when the TV is working right. It's black response time isn't the best, but the rest is incredibly fast and easily worth it for gamers.

If and when Vizio fixes my particular issue, this TV may be the overall best choice for gamers whoch also want top quality picture quality.

Low input lag, deep blacks, low motion blur (with Clear Action, which the rough equivalent of Nvidia's ULMB), etc.



I finished Uncharted 4 today. Fantastic showcase for the PS4.

Overall, I'd put it behind Uncharted 2 (which to me is the best PS3 game overall, after may TLOU), mostly because UC4 felt like a mostly serene, slower paced Uncharted. I mean, there are a BUNCH of thrills and excitement, yet it didn't quite catch the same level of adventure and spectacle as UC2 and UC3.

But boy, DEM GRAPHICS. Even PC gamers would be awed. How they managed to eek those graphics out on a measly PS4 is... unbelievable. I swear many of the locations moved and looked like they were out of a CGI movie, and not a video game. There were many in game moments that I could SWEAR were pre-rendered cutscenes, but were actually not. Naughty Dog is full of incomparable geniuses.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> I can read the words but am unable to comprehend them.


 
  
 You'd better believe it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors
  
 A lot of technology advancements are much older than most people think; it just takes several years for things to become affordable and mass-produced. I mean, it's only fairly recently that we've had 4K 60 Hz without any tiling tricks (read: multiple logical monitors comprising the actual display, each driven by a different video port).
  
 Now if I could just afford a nice PG279Q... alas, I'm all spent, especially because _my day-one Rift CV1 pre-order is NOW PROCESSING._ Now that's another display advancement I've been waiting decades for!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I hadn't gotten my TV, I was totally gonna wait for the OLED monitors soon to come, but only if they had some sort of black frame insertion to them still being sample and hold displays that suffer from eye tracking motion blur. OLED has near zero pixel firing response, but that only helps one form of motion blur, not all.

I know they are incorporating bfi for VR OLED displays, so this needs to trickle on over to Tvs and monitors.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> You'd better believe it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors
> 
> A lot of technology advancements are much older than most people think; it just takes several years for things to become affordable and mass-produced. I mean, it's only fairly recently that we've had 4K 60 Hz without any tiling tricks (read: multiple logical monitors comprising the actual display, each driven by a different video port).
> 
> Now if I could just afford a nice PG279Q... alas, I'm all spent, especially because _my day-one Rift CV1 pre-order is NOW PROCESSING._ Now that's another display advancement I've been waiting decades for!


 

 This monitor has more pixels than all of my screens combined... In 2003...


 Tiled 4k monitor sounds like something that would be extremely useful in some cases. Like when you want to have 4 different video sources on one monitor and are too cheap to buy a 1200$ 4K Multiviewer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's one feature I can't believe these 4K tvs don't have (or perhaps I haven't seen), being able to display 4 different sources at 1080p each.

PIP can be useful especially with 4k since you're getting full HD for every quadrant. That's amazing.

But noooooo, let's take features away. :'(


On topic: And the Vizio P of this year (and probably many years in the past but I had no experience with) actually extract Dolby Digital and feed it to its optical out. This is good news for us with devices like the X7, so that you only need to plug in everything to the TV and send its optical out to the optical input on the X7/Mixamp, etc.

All my other TVs in the past couldn't do this, and downconverted everything to stereo.

Unfortunately my laptop doesn't send out Dolby Digital through it's HDMI or Displayport. 

That's actually alright through since I wanna use my laptop through the USB for the audio, mainly because if I do, I can use the volume control on my keyboard and wireless keyboard to control the volume of the X7 even if I'm not using the laptop (though it must be on).

I hate using the app for volume control, and the X7 is physically too far for me to use the volume knob. So the wireless keyboard for volume control is awesome.

One thing I hate about the TV is the damn tablet is the the main remote control. I don't have to use it (the Vizio Smartcast app can be used with any recent phone), but I much, much prefer not having to use a touchscreen for remote control duties. The alternative physical remote the TV comes with is barren of commands, and doesn't allow for almost anything but volume, power, and switching inputs/presets (not allowing you to actually tweak them, which I always do).


----------



## eltorrete

mad lust envy said:


> Overall, I'd put it behind Uncharted 2 (which to me is the best PS3 game overall, after may TLOU), mostly because UC4 felt like a mostly serene, slower paced Uncharted. I mean, there are a BUNCH of thrills and excitement, yet it didn't quite catch the same level of adventure and spectacle as UC2 and UC3.


 
  
 I have not even played 4 (i not have PS4) but the I found the Uncharted 3 worst of all, especially of the boat


----------



## Darkangelpt

Last time I checked on this fórum was when I got the mixamp tr. 
And creative g5 was barely any info. 
So the g5 is good for consoles? Chat in xbox one ps4 ok?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Chat is ok, very convenient actually but other than that it's all about DEDICATED STEREO GAMING or NON-HARDPANNING SBX STEREO


----------



## Darkangelpt

Im trying to find something like my mixamp tr but with some sound quality. Cause to me this mixamp tr doente have much compared to last generation. 
Looking to see turtle beach tac review.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> TVs were my love a lot longer than Headphones were.
> This TV has one HDMI input (HDMI 5) that is incredibly fast on input lag. On the realm of 17-20ms, which is mostly unheard of on big name TVs.
> 
> The motion handling is almost as good as the best plasmas I've owned, when the TV is working right. It's black response time isn't the best, but the rest is incredibly fast and easily worth it for gamers.
> ...




Very interesting for that Vizio set. I will have a look into it.

We need OLED Tvs already at an affordable price too. Those things look gorgeous and the blacks are soooo black lol.

UC4 does look very good and I will be buying it later on since right now I dont have time for games .

But I guess thats all the power the PS4 has. In order for a game to look really good it really depends on developers delivering that game. Sometimes I feel as if developers halfass a game just in order to meet with a deadline or idk what other reason but thats why we are always having these bugs and whatnot.

I'm a PC gamer and have a PS4, UC4 is one of the reason why I purchased a PS4....and Gran Turismo Sport which hopefully will be released later this year.

But I first must buy a TV....decisions, decisions...


----------



## speakerlao

Got a pair of PX100ii today. Really like them more than my PortaPro and they sound a lot more airy and better for sound positioning in games. The bass also sounds a lot cleaner and balanced when compared to the PortaPro.  But jesus lord, I've never had a headphone with such ridiculous clamp. I have them stretching out over a box, so hopefully that helps.
  
 I always wanted to try them out, but thought they were a bit pricey at $68 last I checked, but they are $41 at the moment on Amazon.
  
 Wearing PX100ii:
  

  
 Edit: More comparing, the PX100 is far more laid back and the PortaPro is in your face all the time. I can't turn up my PortaPro past 30 volume before being overwhelmed, whereas the PX I can go to 50. The PortaPro sound extremely bright at higher volumes in comparison.
  
 Cable on the PortaPro is better, PX feels really cheap. They're about the same length.
  
 PX headband is much better, can't even feel it.

 PX leak a lot more sound.
  
 Earpads feel exactly the same.
  
 Nice having a one sided cable.
  
 Bass is delicious and crispy in gaming on the PX compared to the PP. PP bass sounds really muddy when compared and I feel the more accurate and tight bass helps with sound accuracy on the PX. 
  
 Build quality is far superior on the PX. They feel like a very high quality product when holding them compared to the PP.
  
 Cups rotate to sit flat on your desk on PX. Doesn't look like the cups are removable like PP. PX fold up better than the PP. PP is like a little ball when folded up, PX is like a tiny thin log book.
  
 Overall, I feel the PX is just a far better balanced headphone. Well worth the price at $40.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

eltorrete said:


> I have not even played 4 (i not have PS4) but the I found the Uncharted 3 worst of all, especially of the boat




Overall, I found UC3 much better than UC1.

If I'd rate them overall:

UC2
UC4
UC3
UC: GA (Vita)
UC1.


----------



## Evshrug

This is all off topic but maybe interesting to some... Starcraft II: Legacy of the Void for $30 PC download.

https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/starcraft-ii-legacy-of-the-void?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=header-cta&utm_campaign=marketing-na-sciilegacy-20160513

I loved my PX100 too, but the Earpads completely disintegrated after wearing and sweating in them for a few years. I see so many people with different kinds of mangled cables, but Earpads are the one thing that will wear out with time no matter how careful you are.

Whatever the headphone, I recommend changing the Earpads every 2-3 years.


----------



## Yethal

http://www.smyth-research.com/downloads/Realiser%20A16%20new%20datasheet.pdf
  
 There's a new Realizer coming. Supports HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos, works over USB and has a dedicated chat input/output for consoles.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> http://www.smyth-research.com/downloads/Realiser%20A16%20new%20datasheet.pdf
> 
> There's a new Realizer coming. Supports HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos, works over USB and has a dedicated chat input/output for consoles.


 
 That's awesome!
 I wonder whether it would be possible to pass the processing onto a dedicated audio DAC, via the HDMI passthrough. The optical can only pass two channels it seems. Analogue outputs do pass it but that means using the Realiser's internal DAC [any ideal what that is?]
 Depending on the components it might not be necessary but it would be nice to be able to pass the signal onto other digital devices.
 Regardless, this interests me a lot... Now all that remains is pricing


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> That's awesome!
> I wonder whether it would be possible to pass the processing onto a dedicated audio DAC, via the HDMI passthrough. The optical can only pass two channels it seems. Analogue outputs do pass it but that means using the Realiser's internal DAC [any ideal what that is?]
> Depending on the components it might not be necessary but it would be nice to be able to pass the signal onto other digital devices.
> Regardless, this interests me a lot... Now all that remains is pricing


 

 1500$
  
 And it does have the optical out connected to the main audio router so that's a real possibility.


----------



## conquerator2

Nice.
 But the price... THE PRICE... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Maybe one day!


----------



## Yethal

Virtual Surround of such quality was not designed for use by mere mortals such as us.


----------



## conquerator2

In other news, the Beyer MX300 is on MD - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-mmx300
 Some people really liked this particular headphone though I haven't heard it myself


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> http://www.smyth-research.com/downloads/Realiser%20A16%20new%20datasheet.pdf
> 
> There's a new Realizer coming. Supports HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos, works over USB and has a dedicated chat input/output for consoles.




Smyth's surround tech is astounding! It may be my target savings goal for the next two years (since I have a hopefully endgame headphone). Good to know about, thanks Yethal!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have the Beyerdynamic T1 v2 aka 2nd Generation here and they just don't stand a chance against the HD800. The only thing they do better is giving 5 years of warranty. That's why my summary is so short. There is simply nothing they do that justifies their price or that it could be considered a viable alternative. Beyer needs to step up their game. All that AK stuff isn't going to cut it. They are technologically behind. 
  
 goodbyerdynamic


----------



## alhameli

I own the ADG1 and i hate the head support, the headset keeps slipping during my game sessions and i have to re-adjust it and it does create some discomfort on my left ear, so as a new headset do you recommend the K7XX or the new ADG1X which have a bigger earcup, and does the K7XX sounds better than ADG1 also how does they compare in surround sound for fps gaming. As for my sound card i use the Asus STRIX Raid DLX .


----------



## Evshrug

Alhameli,
First, get a rubber band and use it to bridge the two headband "wings." That should solve your slipping issue and add comfort.

Then, order the K7XX. It's amazing and will have a more immersive sound while also not giving up ground on competitive advantage against the ADG1. They're both lightweight headphones (the ADG1 is slightly lighter), but the K7XX is better in almost every way.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> http://www.smyth-research.com/downloads/Realiser%20A16%20new%20datasheet.pdf
> 
> There's a new Realizer coming. Supports HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos, works over USB and has a dedicated chat input/output for consoles.


 
  
 And it's even a headphone stand!? That thing has WANT written all over! Smyth Research sure knows their target market!
  
 ...except for the price. $1500? Ow, my wallet... and that's not even taking into account how I don't know of a good Atmos theater system to have a PRIR recorded at, which is bound to cost even more money.
  


conquerator2 said:


> In other news, the Beyer MX300 is on MD - https://www.massdrop.com/buy/beyerdynamic-mmx300
> Some people really liked this particular headphone though I haven't heard it myself


 
  
 The MMX 300 is a great headset, both in terms of sound and mic quality. Don't let the closed back fool you - it's pretty adept at positional cues with a good virtual surround mix, and the fact that it's closed means it isolates better if that's what you want.
  
 It's rather expensive, but if you can get one for under $200, I'd say it's worth it.
  
 I'm still miffed that I blew one of the drivers by accident by leaving my laptop volume jacked to 100% fresh after a recable job, though. One of these days, I'll get around to poking Beyerdynamic to order a replacement driver.


----------



## Raincoat

hey, should I get SHP9500, CAL1's, or spend some more for CAL2's (or something else)
  
 https://youtu.be/HT5o8s4VKXg ~ I also like music like this.


----------



## rudyae86

raincoat said:


> hey, should I get SHP9500, CAL1's, or spend some more for CAL2's (or something else)
> 
> https://youtu.be/HT5o8s4VKXg ~ I also like music like this.




For music like you posted....I would go with the CALs. I have them and they sound pretty good with EDM in general. I also have the SHP9500 and they wouldnt be good for your taste of music.

For gaming, CAL will still suit you really well. Check out MLEs review of the CAL in the first page of the thread.

SHP in gaming in my opinion is pretty good too but its spund signature is more analytical and not as fun as the CAL.

As for CAL2...I never heard them or tried them but have read that they arent as good as the first CAL....


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe I'll just buy a pair of CAL!s so I can finally compare to the CAL!2s I have, and give the winner to my dad. They were $50 recently.

I thought the CAL!2 were supposed to have less bass and be tighter than the CAL!, but either way I like the H7 better as a closed gaming headset. I'll probably have to get them exchanged though, because my buddies I tested Overwatch with complained of static after playing 20-30 minutes (I used the mic monitoring in PS4 settings and couldn't reproduce it). The H7 is surprisingly good with the analog connector, so far.

One of the difficult things with closed cheap headsets is, good or bad, the people that buy and review them usually get them early in their audiophile careers, and don't have a broad experience to contrast with. I have a pretty good memory of the AD700, but it might give me a different impression now (though I still think "no bass" is an exaggeration, it does have sparkly highs and cold bass, and rolls off sub bass). I think people would like some more inexpensive closed headphone reviews...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

There are still CALs in the house. The CAL still wows me even today. My review of them, I believe was updated a few years AFTER initial review, as well. I only re-review stuff I really like. That's why the Koss clip-ons and Sportapro were re-reviewed like 20 times. 

I'd like to try the SHP9500 one day.

Reviews are the last thing on my mind however.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Maybe I'll just buy a pair of CAL!s so I can finally compare to the CAL!2s I have, and give the winner to my dad. They were $50 recently.
> 
> I thought the CAL!2 were supposed to have less bass and be tighter than the CAL!, but either way I like the H7 better as a closed gaming headset. I'll probably have to get them exchanged though, because my buddies I tested Overwatch with complained of static after playing 20-30 minutes (I used the mic monitoring in PS4 settings and couldn't reproduce it). The H7 is surprisingly good with the analog connector, so far.
> 
> One of the difficult things with closed cheap headsets is, good or bad, the people that buy and review them usually get them early in their audiophile careers, and don't have a broad experience to contrast with. I have a pretty good memory of the AD700, but it might give me a different impression now (though I still think "no bass" is an exaggeration, it does have sparkly highs and cold bass, and rolls off sub bass). I think people would like some more inexpensive closed headphone reviews...




You do need to have a pair...

I got it for 38 I think on jet.com earlier this year (or was it last year?)

Anyways...for its price, its pretty dam good. I dont use them as much since I'm loving my X2 a lot though I think Ill be using my K7XX more often as soon as I get a Vali 2 amp.

If I end up selling my Momentum over ears, I might start using the CAL! More often for travels or for house use while walking around and doing things.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> There are still CALs in the house. The CAL still wows me even today. My review of them, I believe was updated a few years AFTER initial review, as well. I only re-review stuff I really like. That's why the Koss clip-ons and Sportapro were re-reviewed like 20 times.
> 
> *I'd like to try the SHP9500 one day.*
> 
> Reviews are the last thing on my mind however.




I'd send you mine just for kicks, but it's not stock. I think Axel has no mods on his.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yup, the only "mod" done to my SHP9500 was taking sharpie to the ugly L and R paint on the grills.


----------



## headphonesonly

Who has the Hyperx cloud core headset. I'm thinking about buying one.


----------



## G3ronimo

I currently have a Creative Fatal1ty Gaming Headset and I'm thinking about replacing it. I find fun and competitive equally important, since I play all types of games. By looking at this guide I am now doubting between the M50X and the Creative Labs Aurvana Live!. However the M50X costs more than twice as much as the Aurvana Live!, I'm wondering if the difference in quality is worth the price difference. Also how are the M50X and Aurvana Live! compared to the Creative Fatal1ty I currently have?


----------



## headphonesonly

g3ronimo said:


> I currently have a Creative Fatal1ty Gaming Headset and I'm thinking about replacing it. I find fun and competitive equally important, since I play all types of games. By looking at this guide I am now doubting between the M50X and the Creative Labs Aurvana Live!. However the M50X costs more than twice as much as the Aurvana Live!, I'm wondering if the difference in quality is worth the price difference. Also how are the M50X and Aurvana Live! compared to the Creative Fatal1ty I currently have?


Mad Lust Envy has reviewed both headphones you mentioned.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

CAL > M50 for gaming


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> CAL > M50 for gaming


 
  
 Absolutely
  
 M50 is a good headphone for music if you get it below 100 but soundstage and air are virtually nonexistent to be extreme. Unfortunately for the M50 the CAL happens to be both good in music and games/movies.


----------



## Change is Good

Isn't there a new E-MU wooden version of the CAL that just released?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Don't you mean the Massdrop TH-600 derivate by/for E-MU?
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/e-mu-teak-headphones


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> Don't you mean the Massdrop TH-600 derivate by/for E-MU?
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/e-mu-teak-headphones




I know about those. It's these that I just recently noticed, but have been out for a little while now. Supposedly an E-MU version of the CAL! with wooden cups. I think the price on MD was $99?

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/emu-walnut-lightweight-headphones


----------



## Fegefeuer

oh nice, didn't know about them.


----------



## imdallass

Hello everyone! New to the headphone game, like many others I started off with a gaming headset. I just purchased the fidelio x2s and have a boompro mic on the way. I currently use an astro mixamp tr with usb and optical going to my ps4 for chat/game sound with an aux cord into my laptop for everything on it. 
  
 The mixamp should be plenty strong enough to power the X2s but was wondering if I had any better options? Must be able to retain chat through the ps4 as well as be able to have both pc/ps4 sounds at once. I've done a little reading on the creative x7 and the features sound really cool but it seems as if the chat doesn't properly work without using a bluetooth adapter.
  
 Can anyone tell me: 
  
 1. If I would benefit from upgrading from the mixamp to the x7? Besides the mixamp tr having questionable audio compared to older versions.
  
 2. How do you setup chat audio for ps4 using the x7?


----------



## Yethal

For most painless setup use the bt-w2 transmitter with te X7.


----------



## CSGOnerd

Would the Philips X2 be good for watching action movies compared to the sennheiser game one? (game one is the same as HD558 I've heard) Also how do their soundstage compare I'm going to use them for 50% movies/music and 50% gaming.
  
 I've heard people saying that if you're unlucky you can get a defect X2 does anyone here know if it still happens that you can get bad X2's?


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> oh nice, didn't know about them.




I may have to pick up a pair next time they drop.


----------



## AxelCloris

Both E-MU headphones, the teak and walnut, will be at Canlanta this weekend.
  


fjrabon said:


> Chan from EMU will be there, think he's registering today officially, he booked his flight last night from singapore.  He will have the EMU Teak and Walnuts in addition to his custom Rosewood and Ebony cups that fit the Foster/Fostex 5mm bio dyna style headphones.


----------



## Arniesb

I gotta say folks that Beyerdynamic T1.1 is crazy performer at gaming!!! Whitout eq it is less fun than DT990, but notably more competitive. With eq you can make it even more fun and more competitive at the same time!!! Just crazy performance! Not only soundstage, but also inreased details, resolution and imaging is noticable when gaming. Best purchase along with my HD650, highly recommended! It is very good for everything.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Honestly, I feel like once the soundstage is there, the competitive/immersive balance can be nicely tuned with a little EQ. Don't be afraid to use it; it'll save you from having to swap out headphones all the time.
  
 If anything, I need to downsize my headphone collection. The PC360 is just good enough for most of my typical computer use that I don't need most of my fancier sets around.
  
 Also, on a different gaming-related note, is it just me, or is the revised Xbox One pad with the built-in headphone jack a heck of a lot better than I remember?
  
 LB/RB aren't irksome to use now (the demo kiosk pads I've tried tend to be the older ones where the bumpers are weirdly hinged), the impact triggers actually feel nice when giving Forza 6 Apex a test run, the analog sticks are a heck of a lot tighter and less sloppy around center than older Microsoft pads, and all in all, I'm glad Oculus throws one in with every Rift so I have a big upgrade from my older Xbox 360 wireless pad.
  
 They removed the ring quadrant LEDs around the Guide button, though, so when you've got multiple pads connected, how are you supposed to tell which is P1, which is P2 and so forth? Seems like a dumb design regression considering everything else that's improved.


----------



## Arniesb

namelesspfg said:


> Honestly, I feel like once the soundstage is there, the competitive/immersive balance can be nicely tuned with a little EQ. Don't be afraid to use it; it'll save you from having to swap out headphones all the time.
> 
> If anything, I need to downsize my headphone collection. The PC360 is just good enough for most of my typical computer use that I don't need most of my fancier sets around.
> 
> ...


+1 When Soundstage is large and imaging is good, anything else you can achieve with eq. Well, for gaming and movies atleast...


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> Both E-MU headphones, the teak and walnut, will be at Canlanta this weekend.




Please let me know what you think of the walnut should you get some good listening time with it.


----------



## martin vegas

I don't think youtube upscales anymore on the ps4 after this last update.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



i wish they would stop 4 king about with it!


----------



## G3ronimo

Will the on-board Realtek ALC1150 be good enough for the DT990? I'll mainly use them for gaming. Is a budget amp like the FiiO E10k, Schiit Fulla/Magni 2 or the Sound Blaster Z worth the money, while I have the Realtek ALC1150 audio chip? If so, which of these would you recommend?


----------



## Evshrug

g3ronimo said:


> Will the on-board Realtek ALC1150 be good enough for the DT990? I'll mainly use them for gaming. Is a budget amp like the FiiO E10k, Schiit Fulla/Magni 2 or the Sound Blaster Z worth the money, while I have the Realtek ALC1150 audio chip? If so, which of these would you recommend?



The Realtek chip isn't all that impressive, I'd say get a FiiO K5 or other desktop amp for the DT990.
...
Maybe cut the treble a little bit in EQ.


----------



## Change is Good

I really want a CAL! now. Need something more portable than the 9500.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> I really want a CAL! now. Need something more portable than the 9500.




So I've heard! Hahah


----------



## rudyae86

https://youtu.be/FZ60cgvrRtA

This a link to an old video from earlier this year. 

Didnt know they were making a VR headset in which I think it gives a hint wear audio, especially in gaming, will be heading to.

Im intrigued as to how this VR will work, which requires using your phone but Im more interested in their audio.

I dont think anyone in here has mentioned about this (creative labs specifically).

What do you guys think?


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> So I've heard! Hahah




I hate you


----------



## stinkytofus

which headphone would be the absolute best for fps games in terms of positional accuracy?
  
 which headphones would also be good for music/movies as well as for fps games?
  
 do i need soundcard, dac/amp or both?
  
 thanks!


----------



## rudyae86

stinkytofus said:


> which headphone would be the absolute best for fps games in terms of positional accuracy?
> 
> which headphones would also be good for music/movies as well as for fps games?
> 
> ...




Have you read page 1 of this thread?

Please do. After you read most of the reviews of the different headphones MLE has reviewed, come back and gives us names of some headphones that peek your interest as well as telling us what is your budget. Also if you need close or open back headphones, detachable cable, etc.

Enjoy!


----------



## Sam21

CAL2 > CAL


----------



## rudyae86

sam21 said:


> CAL2 > CAL




How so? Lol

Still cant beat the price/performance ratio, regardless if the CAL2 was to be better.


----------



## stinkytofus

rudyae86 said:


> Have you read page 1 of this thread?
> 
> Please do. After you read most of the reviews of the different headphones MLE has reviewed, come back and gives us names of some headphones that peek your interest as well as telling us what is your budget. Also if you need close or open back headphones, detachable cable, etc.
> 
> Enjoy!


 
 AT ath-ad700, beyer dt990, akg k701/2 interests me as it is highly rated by MLE and the reviews on amazon are 4.5+
  
 also considering sennheiser 600's


----------



## stinkytofus

mad lust envy said:


> No I haven't. I have only posted the ones I have directly tested enough to make a considerable assessment. I did put some bad ones in there for reference.
> 
> Here's good rule of thumb: If a headphone has a spacious soundstage and generally balanced sound signature, it will more than likely perform quite well with Dolby Headphone.
> 
> ...


 
  


mad lust envy said:


> I don't see any real benefit of using a separate Dolby Headphone amp over your soundcard. o_O I forgot to mention that I'm a console gamer, so YMMV. XD


 
 1. i see that you reviewed the dt770 (closed) and highly regard them, but are they better than ad700, dt990, and akg k701/2 for fps? which of these would u recommend as #1 for fps games hands down? since the latter three are all open and open headphones are generally better for fps (from what i've been reading), if they are good for music/movies on the pc, that would be a big plus as well
  
 2. does it make sense the dac/amps are connected to the sound card and then connect the dac/amp to the headphones? can i do surround sound that way? (if i get a soundcard with DH/THX capabilities)? or do i just pick a sound card or dac/amp?
  
 3. without a sound card, if i want surround sound, is it possible with an external amp/dac connected to headphones and used with razer surround software? 
  
 4. for FPS games positional accuracy, is it accurate without surround sound ? is stereo just as accurate/more accurate/good enough?
  
 5. which soundcard do you recommend?
  
 6. if i get a dac/amp with my headphones, does that mean i can connect to ps4, ps4 neo, xbox one no problem? or there is roadblocks? or do i have to get an mixamp?
  
 7. which dac/amp do you recommend? jds labs dac/amp vs. fiio e vs. magni/modi vs etc..
  
 8. i also see that (on amazon) audio technica ath-ad900 is rated highly against ad700, what you think of the ad900 ?
  
 thanks !


----------



## rudyae86

stinkytofus said:


> AT ath-ad700, beyer dt990, akg k701/2 interests me as it is highly rated by MLE and the reviews on amazon are 4.5+
> 
> also considering sennheiser 600's




Im guessing you dont have a budget?
If thats the case then ad700 would be a good choic for fps gaming, if you do competitive gaming. K701/702 would be the next choice but will require an amp. DT990 could be a good choice for an all arounder headphone, both for gaming and music but also requires an amp. HD600 is also a good headphone for music and gaming and also requires an amp to power them adequately.

But I still think you lack more information and probably dont know what this thread really is about. 

I do invite you to ask more questions and to know that this isnt just your typical forums of just asking what is the best headphone because the answer is...there is no best headphone (well maybe the HD800 and HD800s).

But you need to give yourself time to read all of page 1 to get an understanding about what we do with our headphones as well as the lingo or qords we use to describe the "sound" of different headphones.

Most of us here use our headphones with virtual surround and get a more immersive experience while still retaining great sound quality that has great pin point directional accuracy..

EDIT: I see you posted more serious questions lol good.

And we posted at the same time.


----------



## stinkytofus

rudyae86 said:


> Im guessing you dont have a budget?
> If thats the case then ad700 would be a good choic for fps gaming, if you do competitive gaming. K701/702 would be the next choice but will require an amp. DT990 could be a good choice for an all arounder headphone, both for gaming and music but also requires an amp. HD600 is also a good headphone for music and gaming and also requires an amp to power them adequately.
> 
> But I still think you lack more information and probably dont know what this thread really is about.
> ...


 
 yes, i want to know more, i want a quality setup that will last, my last headset didn't even break 1 year mark (sound blaster recon 3d omega wireless headset with the external dac/amp), so gaming headsets.. well most of them i will steer clear of as many of them on amazon have tendency to break easily, now im looking for a setup that will be excellent for fps and hopefully music/movies as well, since we dont just play games all day and i dont wish to own multiple headphones to do different things, trying to keep it all under $800 ($400 for phones, $400 for dac/amp and/or sound card), over splurging isn't good either in my opinion, does not justify the cost for minor improvements that i probably cant even tell lol


----------



## rudyae86

stinkytofus said:


> yes, i want to know more, i want a quality setup that will last, my last headset didn't even break 1 year mark (sound blaster recon 3d omega wireless headset with the external dac/amp), so gaming headsets.. well most of them i will steer clear of as many of them on amazon have tendency to break easily, now im looking for a setup that will be excellent for fps and hopefully music/movies as well, since we dont just play games all day and i dont wish to own multiple headphones to do different things, trying to keep it all under $800 ($400 for phones, $400 for dac/amp and/or sound card), over splurging isn't good either in my opinion, does not justify the cost for minor improvements that i probably cant even tell lol




Well you have your set up right in front of you! Lol

You ha e a Recon3D and you can use it with any headphone and not just the Omega headset.

The Recon3D doesnt have a powerful internal amp and has a decent DAC. Headphones that are around 50ohm will work well with the Recon3D.

Such headphones that work well would be AD700, Fidelio X2, HD598,CAL.

You dont need an extra amp for those headphones since the Recon3D has enough juice to drive them.

Your Recon3D can do VSS for consoles and PC so you are good to go...just set it up right for whatever console you or PC, raise up THX up to 100% and disable the rest of its settings like digitizer, bass, etc. Only thing you want enabled is THX and set the slider to 100%.

If you plan on buying the DT990 or zaKG K701/702, buy an amp to drive them since they require more power.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> https://youtu.be/FZ60cgvrRtA
> 
> This a link to an old video from earlier this year.
> Didnt know they were making a VR headset in which I think it gives a hint wear audio, especially in gaming, will be heading to.
> ...




I also hadn't heard they were making a Google-cardboard esque VR headset... I tried out a fundamentally similar one at Best Buy (the Samsung VR), and I was totally blown away at how accurate the phone's gyroscope and accelerometer kept up with my head movements, felt very 1:1. The only thing Creative mentioned about audio during the VR segment was that they' use Bluetooth... That makes sense since the phone source was inside the sandwich box, but also carries an interesting implication about Creative trying to do some software programming/no-clip camera free viewing?




stinkytofus said:


> yes, i want to know more, i want a quality setup that will last, my last headset didn't even break 1 year mark (sound blaster recon 3d omega wireless headset with the external dac/amp), so gaming headsets.. well most of them i will steer clear of as many of them on amazon have tendency to break easily, now im looking for a setup that will be excellent for fps and hopefully music/movies as well, since we dont just play games all day and i dont wish to own multiple headphones to do different things, trying to keep it all under $800 ($400 for phones, $400 for dac/amp and/or sound card), over splurging isn't good either in my opinion, does not justify the cost for minor improvements that i probably cant even tell lol



I never tried the omega wireless headset, but the Recon3D USB unit was the first surround DSP that really worked for me. Just so you know, that black and blue USB unit serves as both a DSP (digital signal processor, for headphone surround), DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), and Amplifier. The amplifier was great for my Audio Technical AD700, probably would be good for the AD900 too, but you'll want a desktop-class amplifier for the Beyers and AKGs you mentioned. You can just plug a dedicated amp into the headphone jack of the Recon3D, and it will do pretty well. I owned two Recon3D's over like... 5 or six years? Pretty good device, but I don't have one right now. The Turtle Beach DSS2 has less noise output though, and I like it's surround processing pretty well (if you already have the Recon, just use that). Surround will be much more accurate than stereo (you should know, since you can turn it off and on with the button on the left, I think).

And, um, the HD800 really is the best headphone for gaming I've tried so far. I've heard other great musical (and expensive) summit-fi headphones that I really liked (and I badly wanted a MrSpeakers Ether), but the HD800 is tops for all things that matter for gaming: maximum reference imaging/positioning, untethered soundstage reach/distance, crazy good detail and separation (where different sounds don't bleed together), and the closest headphones I've ever had to come to almost forgetting I was wearing them. Very satisfying, very expensive, not for the new-to-the-hobby.

For someone starting/trying out audiophile headphones, my top recommendations are the AKG K612 and K7xx, and for a closed headphone I'm surprisingly enjoying Creative's H7. Yeah, I know. A gaming headset, closed with a mic port and everything we usually shy from, not to mention it's the same brand you just saw die on you, but the $129 price is quite good for what you get in a closed headphone. Because we were talking about the CAL!2, I fished mine out of the closet, and while that is on my head right now and that too sounds pretty good, I miss the H7 because the earpads are FAR more comfortable. I... like the H7. But! If you don't need closed, and can get a desktop-class amp, the AKGs are still going to win the day and win your mind/gaming.


----------



## John Q Lin

Need advice from the Gamers
  
 Is ath-ad700x really that good for positioning in first person shooter?
  
 I have the x2 as my main gaming headphone and will have the shp9500 soon, how does the ad700x compare to them? is it worth the upgrade, or is it a down grade?


----------



## Fegefeuer

you can EQ the bass down if you want less masking but I can't tell you about AD700x vs. X2 positioning at similar FR. MLE can.
  
 Why did you buy the SHP9500? 
  
 Quote:


stinkytofus said:


> which headphone would be the absolute best for fps games in terms of positional accuracy?
> 
> which headphones would also be good for music/movies as well as for fps games?
> 
> ...


 
  
 HD 800. There is no other. I tried them all. No headphone does frontal projection, imaging, soundstage better. Then there's the attack which gives high "physicality/tactility" with strings, drums etc...and then you got the fast decay. Music, gaming, movies. It's all right there. The more people sell their multiple mid-fi headphones the easier they can buy a HD800 with a deal or used in great condition.
  
 I'm not judging, everyone here knows I had multiple mid-fi as well.


----------



## John Q Lin

I got the SHP9500 just for fun, no reason besides that. I thought they would be a good pair throw around headphones, they are so cheap. I used X2 as mostly and sometimes THX00 as my gaming headphone. I was just wandering does the AD700X, perform better as a gaming headset, mainly for first person shooter such as C.S.


----------



## Noisaka

Hello, i want to improve the sound quality of my PC in general, all i do with it is gaming and Music, maybe watch some series sometimes but not much.

 Actually i use the soundcard of my mb, wich is the typical Realtek ALC892 (http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z68%20Extreme4%20Gen3/?cat=Specifications) my headset are Logitech G430 (got them for 40€ last year).

 These Headset comes with a USB adapter to make the Dolby Surround works with the Logitech Gaming Software, Its something i NEVER used cause it was horrible, plus, whenever i conected the Mic and Headphones through the adapter i could heard myself and i didnt like this at all so what i always did was conect the Headphone through Jack in my MB and the mic through USB .

 Later On i bough a PS4 to play with friends, we play Shooters mostly so yeah a Headset is required here.

 So, whenever i was in PC i was with these Headset, if i wanted to play in console i would change it, like this always, i feel kind of annoying having to do that all the time, but well. I used to connect the Headset to my PS4 through USB adapter, since it was better, I dont know why but through Jack Adapter the mic had so low volume, last week the USB adapter stopped working so i decided to get a new headset, i wanted 1 Headset for all so it was hard to find something, since all the recomendations say to get a Headphone and separate microphone, like i totally understand that gaming Headsets are BS but in terms of comfort when switching from PC to console they are great, i just dont like the idea of having to change many cables whenever i want to play in console.

 With all the personal requeriments for headphones everything points me to buy the Astros a40 without MixAmp, since i dont play in console that much to be using the MixAmp, and i read it doesnt work so well in PC, after millions of webs reading that they dont worth the prize i decided to skip them and get something else, so many options but i end getting the SteelSeries Siberia 650, they were perfect in terms of changing cables, it comes with a USB Adapter to use the Dolby on PC, a Jack Adapter wich i had connected in my Ps4 controller so all i had to do is change 1 cable that i had next to my Keyboard to the adapter that i had conected in the controller, the sound was fine and they looks great,  but i just couldnt get used to the leather pads, years ago i used them, but nowdays aftter getting used to the cloth pads of my G430 i cant go back to Leather Pads, in the end, i return them back and now im here again, reading a bunch of recomendations.

 All i know is, i decided to leave the G430 for my PS4 exclusively but yet, i want to get a new Headphones for PC, so getting a Studio Headphones is my best option, but since im new with it i need help.

 + Even if they are for Gaming mostly i dont care the mic, since i can use my webcam as mic but if they have, cool.

 These are my most important requeriments:
 1º Sound Quality.
 2º NO Leather Pads, cloth or velvet its ok, but not Leather, i live in a hot place and i wouldnt enjoy wearing them in Spring and Summer.
 3º Open Type, i use glasses so closed type are not so comfy.
  
 And these not so important but good if they have:

 3º Detachable cable.
 4º No controls in the middle of the cable.
 5º Mic.
 6º Good Looking.
  
 As you can see by MY requeriments the Astros A40 would be perfect if the quality of Sound were great but since they dont i dont consider them as an option unless i see a strong argument.
  
 At the moment what i saw is: 
 - Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro (80 ohm)
 - AKG K612 pro
  
 They would be PC use exclusive, so here comes another thing, do i need a new SoundCard for sure, so i was wondering if SoundBlaster Z would be good enough, and if having this makes me need and AMP?, i cant find any proper info about this soundcard with studio Headphones.
  
 Sorry for long Long Post and bad english.
  
 Thanks in Advance.


----------



## stinkytofus

fegefeuer said:


> HD 800. There is no other. I tried them all. No headphone does frontal projection, imaging, soundstage better. Then there's the attack which gives high "physicality/tactility" with strings, drums etc...and then you got the fast decay. Music, gaming, movies. It's all right there. The more people sell their multiple mid-fi headphones the easier they can buy a HD800 with a deal or used in great condition.
> 
> I'm not judging, everyone here knows I had multiple mid-fi as well.




There is hd800 and hd800s now, read some reviews, some liked it better than the 800 and some likes the 800 over the s

The price is a little too much for now

If u had to choose between beyer 770/880/990, audio techica ath-ad700/ad900, akg k701, akg q701, and sennheiser 598/600/650, which would be best for fps games and decent for music movies ? 

Thanks


----------



## Drizz1e

The X2 is probably your best bet for an all-rounder. Most of the other headphones you listed (except the ATs and the 598) would probably require a separate amp unless you don't mind that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

stinkytofus said:


> There is hd800 and hd800s now, read some reviews, some liked it better than the 800 and some likes the 800 over the s
> 
> The price is a little too much for now
> 
> ...


 
  
 K712
  
 btw: Amazon is listing the TAC.


----------



## speakerlao

Someone please explain to me why buying HD800 for gaming isn't a waste of money even if you have money to burn? When you factor in that almost every game on the market has horrible sound processing with terrible iterations of things like DSP. Is something like a pair of $1,000 headphone really going to give you a experience that warrants the extra $900 over something like a pair of AD900X in something like CSGO? I highly doubt it.


----------



## Hansotek

speakerlao said:


> Someone please explain to me why buying HD800 for gaming isn't a waste of money even if you have money to burn? When you factor in that almost every game on the market has horrible sound processing with terrible iterations of things like DSP. Is something like a pair of $1,000 headphone really going to give you a experience that warrants the extra $900 over something like a pair of AD900X in something like CSGO? I highly doubt it.




Some people use headphones for other stuff too. Like, you know, music. 

Also, not all games sound like crap. If your chosen games sound like crap and you're happy with your Audio Technicas, well, more power to you.


----------



## Change is Good

Some people just prefer the nicer things in life if they can afford it. As with any other hobby...

I'm not going to knock a car enthusiast for owning a Porsche. So I'm definitely not knocking gaming audiophiles for owning an HD800/S, Ether, HEK, etc. If they have the expensive monitor, motherboard, graphics card, etc, why not have the expensive headphones to go with it, right?

It's when people are on console that I feel they are overdoing it in the upper price ranges. I just reach for my cheap 9500 most of (if not all) the time on my PS4.


----------



## rudyae86

Man, I so want an HD800 now lol

Need to start selling some of my headphones I havent used since last year. If I can get around 500 to 600 dollars from the headphones I sell, I wouldnt mind spending the difference for an HD800 or HD800S.

But Then I see the TH900 and HE 560 etc etc and im like....What do I do!? Lol


----------



## Change is Good

You want an HD800. I want a CAL! Haha


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> You want an HD800. I want a CAL! Haha




I have a CAL! And although I dont use it as much but I love it. I wish the build quality was better but for 38 bucks that I paid for, its dam worth it. I will probably buy another pair eventually to have it as a back up lol.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Who's ordering the *TAC*?
  
  
 Quote:


speakerlao said:


> Someone please explain to me why buying HD800 for gaming isn't a waste of money even if you have money to burn? When you factor in that almost every game on the market has horrible sound processing with terrible iterations of things like DSP. Is something like a pair of $1,000 headphone really going to give you a experience that warrants the extra $900 over something like a pair of AD900X in something like CSGO? I highly doubt it.


 
  
 No matter how you spin it, the HD 800 will always be better. That's what matters. Be it music, movies, gaming. Even if it was purely for gaming I'd chose the HD 800 because there is NO game that is better on the AD900X, X2 etc.
 Sure I might have no advantage in CS GO and Co., but it's more because other stuff matters (mechanics, aiming, map knowledge). Sound will always be better.
  
 Plenty of games sound good by now. and truly shine with such headphones. BF4, Hardline, Battlefront, BF1, Mirror's Edge, Killzone 2,3, SF etc etc...
  
 You could also say that 800€ IPS 144Hz Monitors are a waste of money because 150€ TN Monitor dewwdz rip them apart. Now if we talk about color reproduction, motion resolution, viewing angles, built, features like variable refresh rate etc......
  
 and then there's music that I could listen to with such a headphone.


----------



## Change is Good

Add Driveclub to the list of games that sound good with headphones. Those engines just roar and make other racing games' sound like toy cars in comparison.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, it's in the "etc etc" list
  
 Gonna sell a few devices then probably take a TAC for the team. Let me sell first though. I kinda doubt that device to be at E5/g5 level in fidelity though. :[


----------



## Evshrug

I see you have an HD800 as your avatar pic. Have you tried it?
I believe I just said this earlier, but again, it maxes out pretty much every quality that benefits gaming, besides a microphone. Comfort, positional imaging, detail, immersive realism, every frequency is well-represented with great finesse, and doesn't trap too much heat. I also find it to be really engaging and fun, because of the attack and impact Fegefeur mentioned. All the padding and cabling can be replaced if worn out, even the headband. It would sound awful if you powered it through the DualShock 4 controller, but given a good setup that includes gear selected with care, the HD800 will easily be a great endgame experience.

That doesn't take away the fact that it's not for everyone. Have a smaller budget or in an environment like College where stuff gets damaged or stolen? No, don't get a headphone this expensive! The HD800 also doesn't suit a situation where someone might need a closed headphone for isolation or privacy, nor is it suited for portable use. Making it even semi-wireless would be quite an uphill battle. And some people just have a taste for a different headphone with a V-shaped frequency.

Through college, I had an Audio Technica ATH-AD700, which was great. My senior year, I got a Q701, which I also kept for three years, but to others in college or new to headphones I would also recommend an AKG K612 or K7XX. I also tried several other headphones, enjoyed the experience and I wouldn't take away from that. Now, I'm glad I have the HD800, but I'm also 5 years out of college and I learned what I like in headphones, with a pretty stable job, I got a tax refund, and the HD800 showed up on a really good sale price. I needed all those pieces in place before I made the jump.

 Consoles and audio quality have definitely improved, I would say even the 360/PS3 generation had great sound which can be discovered, but beyond just new little details I also just find that it's worth it to find a comfortable physical and sonic presentation.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That HD800 avatar pic looks like one of the default ones on the forums. He probably never changed it.


----------



## eltorrete

Would it be a good match HD800 + Sound Blaster X7? Better than HE560 + x7?


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> yes, it's in the "etc etc" list
> 
> Gonna sell a few devices then probably take a TAC for the team. Let me sell first though. I kinda doubt that device to be at E5/g5 level in fidelity though. :[


 

 Don't buy it. Ask Turtle Beach for a review sample instead or wait for Evshrug to do so.


----------



## Darkangelpt

i dont want the headphone just the tac controller. but theres not a single review.
 wanna see how it compares to my astro tr.
 and how it behaves in consoles in the chat segment,hate to have cables on controller


----------



## Evshrug

darkangelpt said:


> i dont want the headphone just the tac controller. but theres not a single review.
> 
> wanna see how it compares to my astro tr.
> 
> and how it behaves in consoles in the chat segment,hate to have cables on controller




There's not a single review because it hasn't been released yet.


----------



## stinkytofus

evshrug said:


> I see you have an HD800 as your avatar pic. Have you tried it?
> I believe I just said this earlier, but again, it maxes out pretty much every quality that benefits gaming, besides a microphone. Comfort, positional imaging, detail, immersive realism, every frequency is well-represented with great finesse, and doesn't trap too much heat. I also find it to be really engaging and fun, because of the attack and impact Fegefeur mentioned. All the padding and cabling can be replaced if worn out, even the headband. It would sound awful if you powered it through the DualShock 4 controller, but given a good setup that includes gear selected with care, the HD800 will easily be a great endgame experience.
> 
> That doesn't take away the fact that it's not for everyone. Have a smaller budget or in an environment like College where stuff gets damaged or stolen? No, don't get a headphone this expensive! The HD800 also doesn't suit a situation where someone might need a closed headphone for isolation or privacy, nor is it suited for portable use. Making it even semi-wireless would be quite an uphill battle. And some people just have a taste for a different headphone with a V-shaped frequency.
> ...


 
 If u had to choose between beyer 770/880/990, audio techica ath-ad700/ad900, akg k701/k702, akg q701, akg k712, and sennheiser 598/600/650, which would be best for fps games and decent for music movies ? looking to get something around 300-500, hd800/800s i would be looking to get it later down the line since the price is too high for now


----------



## Evshrug

Oh I agree, jumping to the HD800 right from the start is too much to justify.

I haven't tried every headphone, and someday I'd like to try an AD900, HD558, HD598, but honestly I would recommend an AKG K612 or K7XX (unless you like the color of the K712). The AKGs truly sound like they should cost $300-$400. They're also lightweight, don't clamp on your head too hard, have comfy velour pads (the K7XX and K712 slightly better in that), have great detail and sense of space while (IMO) don't sound too distant to be boring, and IMO just do a great job of balancing between the sounds of the Beyer and Sennheisers.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Oh I agree, jumping to the HD800 right from the start is too much to justify.
> 
> I haven't tried every headphone, and someday I'd like to try an AD900, HD558, HD598, but honestly I would recommend an AKG K612 or K7XX (unless you like the color of the K712). The AKGs truly sound like they should cost $300-$400. They're also lightweight, don't clamp on your head too hard, have comfy velour pads (the K7XX and K712 slightly better in that), have great detail and sense of space while (IMO) don't sound too distant to be boring, and IMO just do a great job of balancing between the sounds of the Beyer and Sennheisers.




This right here.....and thats mainly because I own an HD598 and K7XX. Love them both along with my X2 which is my all arounder most of the time.


----------



## Hansotek

stinkytofus said:


> If u had to choose between beyer 770/880/990, audio techica ath-ad700/ad900, akg k701/k702, akg q701, akg k712, and sennheiser 598/600/650, which would be best for fps games and decent for music movies ? looking to get something around 300-500, hd800/800s i would be looking to get it later down the line since the price is too high for now



I've owned the 770, 880, 990, K701, K7XX, HD598 and HD650. I've also heard the HD600 at length. I'd take the Philips Fidelio X1 or X2 over all of them.


----------



## Ben Che

stinkytofus said:


> If u had to choose between beyer 770/880/990, audio techica ath-ad700/ad900, akg k701/k702, akg q701, akg k712, and sennheiser 598/600/650, which would be best for fps games and decent for music movies ? looking to get something around 300-500, hd800/800s i would be looking to get it later down the line since the price is too high for now


 
  
 You're looking for a general-use sort of headphone - I'd recommend either senn 600 or ATH AD 700.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I was able to contact Chan at E-MU and pulled the trigger on the Walnut. @Evshrug, would you be interested in comparing them to the CAL!2, one day? If someone can also send the original CAL! you can write a shootout review, if you are up to it. Would be interesting and very helpful for everyone looking for a closed can under $100.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Well, I was able to contact Chan at E-MU and pulled the trigger on the Walnut. @Evshrug, would you be interested in comparing them to the CAL!2, one day? If someone can also send the original CAL! you can write a shootout review, if you are up to it. Would be interesting and very helpful for everyone looking for a closed can under $100.


 
  
 Spent a few moments with the E-MU headphones at Canlanta. Brief thoughts were that the Teak has way too much bass, the Walnut is too small for me to consider owning, and the wood cups are stunning.


----------



## Change is Good

The small size of the CAL/Walnut is what makes them ideal for what I'm looking for. 

Wow, I really like those full size matte walnut cups. That finish is what sold me on the lighteight E-MUs rather than the CAL. I figured the better cup housing quality would be worth it, both cosmetically and sound wise (or at least hope so).

It will be sad saying goodbye to the 9500. I may just throw them in the closet rather than sell or pass them along. Too good at such a cheap price just let them go.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> The small size of the CAL/Walnut is what makes them ideal for what I'm looking for.
> 
> Wow, I really like those full size matte walnut cups. That finish is what sold me on the lighteight E-MUs rather than the CAL. I figured the better cup housing quality would be worth it, both cosmetically and sound wise (or at least hope so).
> 
> It will be sad saying goodbye to the 9500. I may just throw them in the closet rather than sell or pass them along. Too good at such a cheap price just let them go.




Oh I was the totally going to sell u my CAL's! 
K, just kidding!


If Evshrug does a comparison I'd gladly send my CAL's to him.


----------



## Evshrug

ben che said:


> You're looking for a general-use sort of headphone - I'd recommend either senn 600 or ATH AD 700.




AD700 general use, what? Nu-n-n-n-n-no, the AD700 is amazing because it is so specialized and puts all its powers of goodness into soundstage and imaging, but you'll find yourself bored trying to listen to music for longer lengths of time. Unless you're a treble-head, which I guess I was for awhile... But I found myself wanting more.



change is good said:


> Well, I was able to contact Chan at E-MU and pulled the trigger on the Walnut. @Evshrug
> , would you be interested in comparing them to the CAL!2, one day? If someone can also send the original CAL! you can write a shootout review, if you are up to it. Would be interesting and very helpful for everyone looking for a closed can under $100.



Bang bang bang!
I agree shootouts are useful, to get an idea of how a few products stand relative to eachother. This may have to happen someday.



lenroot77 said:


> Oh I was the totally going to sell u my CAL's!
> K, just kidding!
> 
> If Evshrug does a comparison I'd gladly send my CAL's to him.



Well, if you guys actually want my opinion, maybe we should PM and set this up.


----------



## shuto77

stinkytofus said:


> which headphone would be the absolute best for fps games in terms of positional accuracy?
> 
> which headphones would also be good for music/movies as well as for fps games?
> 
> ...




I prefer the Philips Fidelio X2 as an all-rounder for gaming and music. The X2 is geeat for gaming and very good for music. 

You always want to upgrade your audio, even if it's with a budget dac or sound card.


----------



## stinkytofus

so for positional accuracy and soundstage im good with akg k701/702 or audio techica ath-ad700, according to this guide, is there other cans that are comparable ?


----------



## AxelCloris

There are plenty of headphones that have good accuracy and soundstage in a range of budgets. What are you looking for that the K701 or AD700 don't deliver?


----------



## stinkytofus

axelcloris said:


> There are plenty of headphones that have good accuracy and soundstage in a range of budgets. What are you looking for that the K701 or AD700 don't deliver?




They deliver on soundstage and detail retrievals, am i safe to assume these two are the best in terms of positional accuracy for fps games ? Is there other cans with comparable/as good soundstage that i can look into, People mention x2, hd600, hd800, but do these have wide soundstages like the ad700 and k701/702? 

Btw i appreciate the help guys  just trying to blow money on a good can, last for several years hopefully, unlike the recon3d i owned that crapped out in 10 months


----------



## AxelCloris

Yes, positional accuracy for gaming comes down to a combination of detail, separation, and soundstage. There are plenty of mentions for the X2 and HD800 for gaming in this thread, and I'm pretty sure someone has discussed the HD 600 in the past as well. I use the Ether and SHP9500 for gaming depending on my needs at the time. Both are good gaming options and are also at opposite ends of the price spectrum. Warm or dark headphones are usually more enjoyable for immersive gaming while headphones that are more accurate and detailed tend to lend themselves more to competitive play. I personally prefer to split the difference and get immersion along with my positional queues but there's nothing wrong with having a set that specializes in one or the other.
  
 My recommendation if you want a headphone that'll last you for years: spend some time researching and do it right the first time. Don't reject the flagship headphones based on their price but also don't pass over the budget-friendly stuff because they're "cheap." If you can get to meets that'll help you find the one for you.


----------



## jincuteguy

What about the Fostex TH900 for gaming? compare to HD800 / HD800S and Beyer T1 2nd Gen


----------



## AxelCloris

jincuteguy said:


> What about the Fostex TH900 for gaming? compare to HD800 / HD800S and Beyer T1 2nd Gen


 
  
 I know the TH-900 has been discussed in the thread multiple times. MLE did a write-up on the TH-600 and that generated a lot of discussion on the TH-900. As for comparisons to other headphones I don't know if that was discussed much.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> AD700 general use, what? Nu-n-n-n-n-no, the AD700 is amazing because it is so specialized and puts all its powers of goodness into soundstage and imaging, but you'll find yourself bored trying to listen to music for longer lengths of time. Unless you're a treble-head, which I guess I was for awhile... But I found myself wanting more.
> Bang bang bang!
> I agree shootouts are useful, to get an idea of how a few products stand relative to eachother. This may have to happen someday.
> Well, if you guys actually want my opinion, maybe we should PM and set this up.




I'll start a PM once I have them in hand.


----------



## taropaste

change is good said:


> Well, I was able to contact Chan at E-MU and pulled the trigger on the Walnut. @Evshrug
> , would you be interested in comparing them to the CAL!2, one day? If someone can also send the original CAL! you can write a shootout review, if you are up to it. Would be interesting and very helpful for everyone looking for a closed can under $100.





Hi guys. Is the CAL the only option if I'm looking for a closed can under $300 with neutralish sound? Is there anything else?

Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

taropaste said:


> Hi guys. Is the CAL the only option if I'm looking for a closed can under $300 with neutralish sound? Is there anything else?
> 
> Thanks.




I don't have much experience with neutral-ish closed cans. I usually go open for that kind of sound signature because of the benefit of having a wider soundstage for better positional accuracy and instrument separation.

Still, from reading it seems the CAL leans a little towards warm rather than neutral. I do remember the SRH840 being close to neutral, but still a little on the warm side. Same thing with the HP100 and K267.

Oppo PM-3?


----------



## taropaste

change is good said:


> I don't have much experience with neutral-ish closed cans. I usually go open for that kind of sound signature because of the benefit of having a wider soundstage for better positional accuracy and instrument separation.
> 
> Still, from reading it seems the CAL leans a little towards warm rather than neutral. I do remember the SRH840 being close to neutral, but still a little on the warm side. Same thing with the HP100 and K267.
> 
> Oppo PM-3?


 
  
 Yeah I figured as much. I'm ok with slightly warm or slightly bright. Can't be too picky when options are limited. I like the PM-3 but I wouldn't want to use it for gaming.
  
 I may look into the Audio Technica a900x or even the MSR7. I thought Beyer dt1770 might even work as the pop up on the classifieds for around $400 but I only listened to them briefly and I can't remember if the soundstage would be good for gaming.


----------



## Vindication

conquerator2 said:


> It won't pass processed surround through optical [read: they don't wanna allow it because they want you to use their headphones and gear]. I was able to confirm that with TB back at last year's E3


 
  


yethal said:


> If I remember correctly the TAC is going to use the same DAC chip as Schiit Fulla. Maybe at least it can be modified for line-out which, paired with the AKM4396 would make a decent sounding setup.


 

 So what you're trying to suggest is, the optical out will be completely useless therefore not allowing you to connecting to another source such as a DAC? 
  
 If this can be modified, who would be able to do it? Maybe JDS Labs? 
  
 I've already pre-ordered this and would love to link this to a DAC like a Chord Hugo....


----------



## Yethal

That's not going to happen. Ever.


----------



## rudyae86

As much as I hate TB products....I kind of want to try the TAC. Heard the demos of Headphone X and sounds similar to DH but with the added height "speakers". The rear speakers seem to be more noticeable as well.

What concerns me might be the panning from any direction as well as how the soundstage is like in games as well as clarity and sound quality compared to what we currently have with DH and SBX hardware.

I assume Headphone X uses DTS singal this time, since we mostly uses Dolby Digital when setting up our hardware like the Asteo mix amp or Sound blaster hardware like Recon3D


----------



## Yethal

The Elite 800 headset from TB used Dolby Digital despite being marketed as dts:h headset.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> The Elite 800 headset from TB used Dolby Digital despite being marketed as dts:h headset.




But was it Dolby in, and DTS:H out?


----------



## Yethal

It was, but it wasn't DTS in.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> It was, but it wasn't DTS in.




Maybe this might have changed with the TAC? I mean, it would be pretty dumb if DTS wasnt going in, especially if its main feature is DTS H X.....

It kind of sucks we are mostly limited to DD...


----------



## Darkangelpt

In amazon there's some reviews. On the turtle beach tac. But I wouldn t consider that any good.


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> In amazon there's some reviews. On the turtle beach tac. But I wouldn t consider that any good.


 

 There are product reviews (5 star ratings all of them) before the product launched. Really, Turtle Beach? Somebody needs to step up their hostile marketing game.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> There are product reviews (5 star ratings all of them) before the product launched. Really, Turtle Beach? Somebody needs to step up their hostile marketing game.




One of them says they got the priduct for free, to review it? Lol

Yeah Id take those with a huge load of salt and pepper


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> One of them says they got the priduct for free, to review it? Lol
> 
> Yeah Id take those with a huge load of salt and pepper


 

 If the Turtle Beach is giving it away for free, I'd love to get one.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> If the Turtle Beach is giving it away for free, I'd love to get one.




Lol wouldnt we all?

Im guessing he probably uses those sites that give free stuff or let you purchase it for a discounted price if you leave a review. Its kind of difficult and not so much but it can be done. Just dont know what site he got it from.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Lol wouldnt we all?
> 
> Im guessing he probably uses those sites that give free stuff or let you purchase it for a discounted price if you leave a review. Its kind of difficult and not so much but it can be done. Just dont know what site he got it from.


 

 There are two more options here.
  

Turtle Beach employees wrote that which, if true, was really really lame of them.
Guys from OpTic or any other console gaming team wrote that in exchange for endorsement which is as lame as option #1


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> There are product reviews (5 star ratings all of them) before the product launched. Really, Turtle Beach? Somebody needs to step up their hostile marketing game.




Amazon has their Vine program which send some products out to reviewers before they launch. Look for the green text next to a review that mentions the Vine program, every review on the TAC probably has that indicator.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> One of them says they got the priduct for free, to review it? Lol
> 
> Yeah Id take those with a huge load of salt and pepper




Meh, I wouldn't necessarily say that. It could be first impressions from a blogger or YouTube that reached critical mass enough for Turtle Beach to ask their opinion. Magazines and Pro reviewers get offered loaners and freebies more than they can write about, and that's the only way for them to afford a wide breadth of gear to review or sometimes review something out of mainstream. I wouldn't have been able to afford a ZMF Vibro, but Zach let me borrow one (for like 2 months because I had to fix gear!) and I got to review something outside my usual open headphones. I didn't go to a special site though... I just asked, and showed him my past reviews, kinda like a portfolio.

The downsides of getting a loaner or free product for review: if it's your first or second review sample, you might be tempted to be extra favorable, either out of thanks or hopes that the reviewing relationship will continue. So, they could overhype a product, but not as a rule. A reviewer who is aware of that bias and is motivated to be "in it for the long run" ought to give a more fair review. Another downside is that reviewing products is work... if the writer wants any respect, they'll probably take things serious and consider what others may like/dislike in addition to the reviewer's own opinion. That's a stressor, and it is possible to put a lot of time into something that wouldn't put food on the table (unless you get famous and a bahillion subscribers or something).

The upsides is more reviews. Consumers get an idea of what's going on and what might appeal to them, some more "buyers comfort" if you will, and of course manufacturers get more buzz.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Amazon has their Vine program which send some products out to reviewers before they launch. Look for the green text next to a review that mentions the Vine program, every review on the TAC probably has that indicator.


 

 After further inspection they do, in fact, have the Vine indicator. However my point still stands partially. The product hasn't even launched yet and there are already reviews on Amazon, all of them 5 star which seems just dishonest of TB.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Meh, I wouldn't necessarily say that. It could be first impressions from a blogger or YouTube that reached critical mass enough for Turtle Beach to ask their opinion. Magazines and Pro reviewers get offered loaners and freebies more than they can write about, and that's the only way for them to afford a wide breadth of gear to review or sometimes review something out of mainstream. I wouldn't have been able to afford a ZMF Vibro, but Zach let me borrow one (for like 2 months because I had to fix gear!) and I got to review something outside my usual open headphones. I didn't go to a special site though... I just asked, and showed him my past reviews, kinda like a portfolio.
> 
> The downsides of getting a loaner or free product for review: if it's your first or second review sample, you might be tempted to be extra favorable, either out of thanks or hopes that the reviewing relationship will continue. So, they could overhype a product, but not as a rule. A reviewer who is aware of that bias and is motivated to be "in it for the long run" ought to give a more fair review. Another downside is that reviewing products is work... if the writer wants any respect, they'll probably take things serious and consider what others may like/dislike in addition to the reviewer's own opinion. That's a stressor, and it is possible to put a lot of time into something that wouldn't put food on the table (unless you get famous and a bahillion subscribers or something).
> 
> The upsides is more reviews. Consumers get an idea of what's going on and what might appeal to them, some more "buyers comfort" if you will, and of course manufacturers get more buzz.




This is true...but given how dull the reviews sound like on amazon...they dont really offer anything specific or detailed of the TAC


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> This is true...but given how dull the reviews sound like on amazon...they dont really offer anything specific or detailed of the TAC


 

 They sound like they were written by a bot. Or an intern.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, if they're not good reviews, they're not good reviews!


----------



## lenroot77

Well there appears to be an optical out??? I'm trying not to get too excited.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Well there appears to be an optical out??? I'm trying not to get too excited.


 

 It's a passthrough. Nothing to get excited about.


----------



## conquerator2

And not a DH:X passthrough at that


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> It's a passthrough. Nothing to get excited about.





Sniffle


----------



## AxelCloris

What the world could use right now is a battery or wall powered Bluetooth adapter that has a 3.5 TRRS connector to pass stereo sound and mic signal wirelessly to any Bluetooth enabled headphone. obviously this idea isn't for the folks who are trying to get the absolute finest audio experience but for those who are looking for great convenience.

I'd love to game with the Momentum Wireless.


----------



## Change is Good

I wish someone would just make something like 5.8 

Heads up for those interested. Newegg has some open box 9500s for $49.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826138190R


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I wish someone would just make something like 5.8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Tritton is close with their Katana. Would need some modding but it's doable.


----------



## Fegefeuer

audio bliss with consoles is just so much harder to attain, it's annoying having to expect manufacturers to support DHP/DTS HPX/SBX and Co. over optical. And in all these years they don't get it at all.


----------



## dmc1234master

I'm deciding between a dt990 pro 250 ohm and a phillips fidellio x2 the setup will most likely be a astro mix amp in too a O2 amp.
 for gaming, streaming, movies, and for music hard rock/metal. i would like to know which one has the better soundstage in terms of accuracy and size specifically since i havent been enable to find anybody comparing these headphones. also which one is more clear and detailed.


----------



## conquerator2

dmc1234master said:


> I'm deciding between a dt990 pro 250 ohm and a phillips fidellio x2 the setup will most likely be a astro mix amp in too a O2 amp.
> for gaming, streaming, movies, and for music hard rock/metal. i would like to know which one has the better soundstage in terms of accuracy and size specifically since i havent been enable to find anybody comparing these headphones. also which one is more clear and detailed.




Just go for the X2. Your ears will thank me later


----------



## Drizz1e

A lot of people can't deal with the treble of Beyerdynamic headphones so you might not enjoy using it for music. Obviously it varies from person to person but the X2 is a much safer bet as from what I can tell, it's pretty much better in every way.


----------



## lenroot77

dmc1234master said:


> I'm deciding between a dt990 pro 250 ohm and a phillips fidellio x2 the setup will most likely be a astro mix amp in too a O2 amp.
> for gaming, streaming, movies, and for music hard rock/metal. i would like to know which one has the better soundstage in terms of accuracy and size specifically since i havent been enable to find anybody comparing these headphones. also which one is more clear and detailed.




X2 all day! I think most here will agree!


----------



## dmc1234master

well i am very thorough when purchasing anything over 100$ so i need a bit more context


----------



## Change is Good

The X2 has to be one of the most overrated headphones I have ever heard then read about. All its praise leaves me baffled sometimes. It's not bad. I just feel there are plenty better options in its price range.


----------



## dmc1234master

if you can recommend anything price range is everything below 300$ just for the headphones need to be open with decent bass and good soundstage


----------



## Change is Good

Depends on what you mean by "decent bass." Do you like your bass flat or north of neutral? Fast/punchy or decayed/bloomy?


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> The X2 has to be one of the most overrated headphones I have ever heard then read about. All its praise leaves me baffled sometimes. It's not bad. I just feel there are plenty better options in its price range.




Like? Overrated a bit but it satisfies most gamers needs so far, even with music. However, the X1 is now underlooked and I think the x1 favors immersion a bit more than the X2. X1 for music seems to favor it more than the X2, especially for EDM, where you let the bass drop lol


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Like? Overrated a bit but it satisfies most gamers needs so far, even with music. However, the X1 is now underlooked and I think the x1 favors immersion a bit more than the X2. X1 for music seems to favor it more than the X2, especially for EDM, where you let the bass drop lol




I'll only mention the ones I had in the same time window as the X2. I much preferred the HP150 side by by side, and then the K7XX shortly after. Maybe it's just my preferences in an open headphone. The X2 was boring, honestly. It played things TOO safe, not to mention the less than average soundstage. I've heard closed headphones with more space and instrument separation.

The X1, on the other hand, I liked. It knew what it wanted to be. The soundstage was even wider.

I understand convenience for gamers, but honestly the SHP9500 would be a better choice. Different sound, but no loss in quality. As safe as the X2 plays it, it's sound quality does not fit it's asking price.


----------



## dmc1234master

how do you feel about the dt990s? the highs would not bother me.


----------



## Starburp701

I'm trying to move away from Toslink and to HDMI. I run q701's from a Schiit Magni 2 that's connected to a Behringer 802 mixer from Turtle Beach's DSS. I was wondering what's the best/ least expensive way to get LPCM from my PS4 to my headphones. I want to be able to keep separate game and audio chat.. so say I run HDMI to AVR, hp output 3.5mm from the AVR to the DSS analog input, then I get to keep the Sabrent sound card function to separate chat/game audio through the mixer with 5.1/7.1 channels of uncompressed audio still? Maybe I'm over thinking it. I'm hoping you can help me!  thanks.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I'll only mention the ones I had in the same time window as the X2. I much preferred the HP150 side by by side, and then the K7XX shortly after. Maybe it's just my preferences in an open headphone. The X2 was boring, honestly. It played things TOO safe, not to mention the less than average soundstage. I've heard closed headphones with more space and instrument separation.
> 
> The X1, on the other hand, I liked. It knew what it wanted to be. The soundstage was even wider.
> 
> I understand convenience for gamers, but honestly the SHP9500 would be a better choice. Different sound, but no loss in quality. As safe as the X2 plays it, it's sound quality does not fit it's asking price.




Yeah, I think I could agree to that. I still have an X1 that I bought when it was 140 dollars. I still have it in its box and everything lol....well I opened it when it first arrived just to check if everything was good with the headphone, probably used it for 10 hours and put it back into its box and have kept using the x2 ever since. I also have the K7XX and while being within the same price range, the K7XX does perform better or suits my tasted better than the X2. Only reason I choose the X2 over my K7XX is the convenience of having a boom pro and the bass being havier on the X2 while keeping a neutral sound signature. And I think thats what the X2 was trying to get to all along..trying to sound like the HD600 but still falls short of that, although I guess there is always some sort of compromise with any headphone.

But honestly, paying 300 for the x2 isnt in my opinion, not really worth it but for 200 or less, its probably still a good option.


----------



## conquerator2

There's still also the Sony MDR-MA900


----------



## Evshrug

Starburp,
That wiring setup seems... Convoluted. First of all, if you want surround processing, you have to do it during the digital stage (or have a different analog connection for each direction, think an RCA cable but instead of two plugs you have 5 or 7). Connecting a 3.5mm cable from your AVR to the DSS wouldn't improve anything.

If you feel like using LPCM and HDMI, you'll need either
A.) a receiver with headphone surround processing built-in, like my Yamaha or an older Marantz AVR with Dolby Headphone. In this case you'd connect the AVR's headphone output and game console's chat output to your mixer, your mixer to an amp, and amp to your Q701. Fun?

B.) Buy a surround processor with HDMI, the only one I can think of is the Smyth Realizer A8. Apparently, it's the 8th man made wonder of the world. Also, Smyth is releasing a newer A16 unit in the near future, street price expected around $1500.

C.) give up on LPCM, and get a surround processor with a better DAC (that still uses SPDIF/optical). The two units I can think of are the Beyerdynamic Headzone and the Creative X7. The upside of these is you get an all-in-one without need for your Behringer or Schiit.

Let's get back to the core reason for your question: optical vs LPCM. Why do you want a new option? Better perceived quality. I can tell you now that Optical still has untapped quality potential above what you're getting from your current setup, and that Optical isn't the weakest part of your audio chain (and hooking up an AVR like you described would probably net you a WORSE sound than you already have). Improvements in DAC, amp, and headphones will make a greater impact than LPCM over HDMI. 

I have had a DSS for a year, an AVR (Yamaha) with LPCM and built-in headphone surround processing, a Creative X7, and a ton of other processors and setups over the years, and I can tell you from personal long-term testing that an X7 + Q701 > AVR + Q701. I have a friend who uses a DSS2 + Cavalli Liquid Carbon ($800 amp) + Sennheiser HD800 ($1400 headphone), and his setup still was able to eke out better performance than his older setup (recon3D + garage1214 tube amp + Q701). 

I haven't tried the Headzone or Smyth YET, but, again, optical isn't the limiting factor of your setup.


----------



## Evshrug

conquerator2 said:


> There's still also the Sony MDR-MA900



Yeah LMAO, he owns one! Doesn't use it either though. Slowly becoming a headphone collector... which, if that gives him pleasure, is no bad thing!


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> There's still also the Sony MDR-MA900


 
  
 +1
  
 Wish they would make an updated version...


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Starburp,
> That wiring setup seems... Convoluted. First of all, if you want surround processing, you have to do it during the digital stage (or have a different analog connection for each direction, think an RCA cable but instead of two plugs you have 5 or 7). Connecting a 3.5mm cable from your AVR to the DSS wouldn't improve anything.
> 
> If you feel like using LPCM and HDMI, you'll need either
> ...




Does the dss2 offer a line out of some sort?


----------



## Starburp701

Evshrug

Thanks for the reply
Sorry, maybe I was being too vague at the risk of sounding trite. The only reason I would keep the DSS (or Dss2; I have both) is because of the USB sound card, giving me the capability to seperate game and chat audio as the chat and mic (FX send in this case) run from the USB SC and the game volume runs from the actual HPHONE port.I would most def be running it on bypass for the sole purpose of said reason via analog. I ocasionally like to stream, play DJ, have seperate game/chat inputs, and be able to control my side note & mic volume from the panel so the mixer is a must and the DSS is the only way I know how to seperate them properly. As for the AVR I was looking at a Marantz SR 6xxx on ebay that was enticing for around $300. I would be running Lpcm from the ps4 and decoding from the marantz.

To answer your main question I want multiple channels of lossless goodness. It would also be nice to have a good receiver for when my girlfriend and I move in together at the end of June to establish home theater. 
X7 sounds great and all but I can't go back to bitstream as I'm running stereo Linear at the moment and even that sounds 100 better than D(B). Also, may have mathed up my opt in on the PS4 moving the console back and forth so often.. I get weird clicky noises acompanied by parallel distortion ocassionally, usually in a pause menu or scrolling in the PS store. Tried changing the toslink, turned the volume down on all aparatuses, switch between DAC's, changed all my mixer wires, ect...


----------



## Starburp701

[@]Evshrug
It just dawned on me that I may be able to run the Sabrent USB SC directly from the PS4


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Yeah LMAO, he owns one! Doesn't use it either though. Slowly becoming a headphone collector... which, if that gives him pleasure, is no bad thing!




Lol I do have one and it is a great headphone but I dont know why I baby it so much.

Im just afraid of breaking it or something because its very lightweight and feels fragile at times.

Seriously, one time I stepped on the cable and I barely, just barely moved to the point of where I could barely feel the MA900 move a bit and stopped suddenly.

After that incident, I just havent used it.

It is so comfortable though...


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7 finally gets SBX over optical and line out

Noted in the new update of the iOS app


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> X7 finally gets SBX over optical and line out
> 
> Noted in the new update of the iOS app


 
 What! When? I don't have an iDevice what do I do?
 I assuem it's going to be a software/FW update?


----------



## Evshrug

Android app probably was updated too, or soon will be. If you have a Windows Phone, ABANDON ALL HOPE! Or use the PC app :3


----------



## Evshrug

Starburp,
Sorry to hear your PS4 optical output is messed up! Extra weird that you have video distortion too (I think? Parallel distortion, you said?). PS4 does stereo audio output to USB soundcards or DACs, as long as the card doesn't need drivers 

I totally understand getting ready to have the girlfriend move in, I did that 11 months ago! I proposed to her on moving day 

The Marantz seems pretty good as an option. Already have speakers? If not, I highly recommend research into ELAC and Chane speakers. The ELACs were amazing according to my friends at recent audio events, and they (and I) have enjoyed the Chane speakers I have set up in my house.

Someone asked if the DSS or DSS2 has a line out... Not really? I think it's set up so that the amp is always making max power, then there is a resistor in-line that cuts the volume down to listening volume when you turn the volume knob. I could be wrong though. I do notice that the DSS2 can turn forever with no stop at the max or min volumes.


----------



## Fegefeuer

conquerator2 said:


> What! When? I don't have an iDevice what do I do?
> I assuem it's going to be a software/FW update?


 
  
 It works, I just tested a few games over the optical out and SBX works flawlessly.
  
 Just enable it via the Android APP (I assume it has been updated as well).


----------



## Starburp701

Evshrug
Thanks for all your input and suggestions. Congrats on the engagement as well! Ill have to look into those speakers for sure. Looks like I'll be buying a Marantz sr5005 or sr6005 at the beginning of the month and I'll keep you updated on my experience.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> It works, I just tested a few games over the optical out and SBX works flawlessly.
> 
> Just enable it via the Android APP (I assume it has been updated as well).


 
 Don't see it in the Android app yet. I guess they haven't updated it yet


----------



## Bartmil

Hello!
  
 What happens if i use a Tritton Decoder box (Pro+ 720+ new ones), on pc, with my regular stereo headphone? The Decoder box will actuate as an amp/dac, or just a amp?
  
 The decoder box, are using one usb, and the optical (spdif) conection, from my pc. And my headphone are conected, on the analog output, on the decoder (3.5mm jack output).
  
 Thank you very much,


----------



## Yethal

bartmil said:


> Hello!
> 
> What happens if i use a Tritton Decoder box (Pro+ 720+ new ones), on pc, with my regular stereo headphone? The Decoder box will actuate as an amp/dac, or just a amp?
> 
> ...



If it's connected via usb or optical, which are digital connections, then it will be both a dac and an amp.


----------



## Evshrug

bartmil said:


> What happens if i use a Tritton Decoder box (Pro+ 720+ new ones), on pc, with my regular stereo headphone?




Sparks! Explosions! Zombies eating your brains!

...
Or what Yethal said. It should work, at least in stereo.


----------



## deanorthk

Since I'm going to keep my HD650 to listen to music at my work place, I guess it's time to try to find a new great headphone for gaming on my pc with the Sb X7.
  
 I need a closed headphone, that's sure, don't want to disturb my wife too much.
 I guess the fostex TH600, despite leaking a bit is ok, or the maddog one at 599$ maybe?
 It'll be really for gaming and movie/tv, no music involved or really rarely.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I can't vouch for the TH-600, the treble is just too hot. Why not one of the Massdrop TH-X00 (purpleheart)?


----------



## baloo123

Alight guys after reading online for hours I can't seem to find the best solution to this problem. 
  
 I currently have a Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies amp and LCD-3 setup that I use for music listening now. I'm moving into an apartment with really thin walls though so I will need to use these for my movies/games as well now instead of speakers. So I will have two sources:
  
 1. Vizio P-Series TV (will use the smart TV functionality so I can get HDR content). This TV can output audio over HDMI or Optical.
 2. Windows computer.
  
 The computer seems like the easy one since I could even do it in software if I wanted. The Smart TV is more troubling. I don't want to use a different amp as I really like my Woo amp. *So what I need is something that can decode the dolby signals from the TV (Says it can do PCM, Dolby Digital 5.1, & DTS. Does it choose based on content or something else?) and output to the line level inputs on the Woo amp. *I see a lot of posts about people using the headphone out as a line out but I'm hesitant about the quality degradation. Anyone have any suggestions for me?
  
 Under $1500 is my budget.


----------



## deanorthk

thanks for the comment about the TH-W00, I was simply not aware of their existence ,sigh
  
 They seems perfect, but I fear hard to find or buy, especially for me since I'm in Reunion island


----------



## Bartmil

yethal said:


> If it's connected via usb or optical, which are digital connections, then it will be both a dac and an amp.


 
 Thank you very very much! I was so confused!
  
 Im just wondering now, if this Tritton decoder box are better then a Fiio E10k or the SMSL2. If it is close to the quality of those, i will be very happy.
  
 Thanks again m8, im very happy now!


----------



## Yethal

baloo123 said:


> Alight guys after reading online for hours I can't seem to find the best solution to this problem.
> 
> I currently have a Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies amp and LCD-3 setup that I use for music listening now. I'm moving into an apartment with really thin walls though so I will need to use these for my movies/games as well now instead of speakers. So I will have two sources:
> 
> ...


 
 For that money, go for the Realizer A16. You win by buying a great device, we win by having someone on this thread who can offer impressions.


bartmil said:


> Thank you very very much! I was so confused!
> 
> Im just wondering now, if this Tritton decoder box are better then a Fiio E10k or the SMSL2. If it is close to the quality of those, i will be very happy.
> 
> Thanks again m8, im very happy now!


 
 Probably not, however these two were designed with music in mind. The Tritton box is a gaming device first.


----------



## Bartmil

yethal said:


> For that money, go for the Realizer A16. You win by buying a great device, we win by having someone on this thread who can offer impressions.
> Probably not, however these two were designed with music in mind. The Tritton box is a gaming device first.


 
 Well i think thats better (maybe), then my onboard Realtek ALC898 codec. So im very happy at this moment.
  
 Thank you again!


----------



## baloo123

yethal said:


> For that money, go for the Realizer A16. You win by buying a great device, we win by having someone on this thread who can offer impressions.




So that's not available until 2017. Anything I could get in the interim?


----------



## Change is Good

deanorthk said:


> thanks for the comment about the TH-W00, I was simply not aware of their existence ,sigh
> 
> They seems perfect, but I fear hard to find or buy, especially for me since I'm in Reunion island




You may want to take a look at these.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/e-mu-teak-headphones

Tuned a bit different, but still that yummy Fostex bass. Try sending E-MU an email to inquire about price and shipping to your region. 

enquiry@emu.com

Edit: There is also the TH-600 or newer TH-610. Those are Fostex brand like the TH-X00 and also very similar.


----------



## zx6guy

MLE, any plans for a review of the Mixamp TR?


----------



## rudyae86

http://www.overclock.net/t/1601932/dt-fake-reviews-amazon-sues-merchants-for-the-first-time/0_50#post_25223580

Kind of unrelated but Amazon will start suing merchants putting in fake reviews for their products...

I wonder how that will fit into those that get the product for free for a fair review?

Although I havent seen any fake reviews for headphones and stuff, I wouldnt be surprised if some low-fi headphones from up and coming company might get a boost with their ratings through these tactics.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

zx6guy said:


> MLE, any plans for a review of the Mixamp TR?




I don't have any plans for anything. I've barely used my HE400 in months. The only stable and consistent headphone use is with my Koss clip ons, because they're simple and effective.

I've been out of work (and will be for another week because my company lost the contract where I worked). Last thing on my mind is audio. I had to return my Vizio P, and forego getting a new PC/Vizio M until I know my job is stable again. Had to waste vacation time on this BS time off.

So yeah, just an irritating time for me, atm.

Glad to hear the X7 has SBX through the SPDIF out. Not like 'd use it anytime soon, but it's good to know it's possible now. I'll have to update later.


----------



## Evshrug

Sorry to hear the company is doing that yet again. Are they the only security firm in town? I'm off this week too on vacation, but I'm trying out an online "think tank/opinions panel" thing that pays. Not a job for everyone, but it could mesh well with your current job and give you some backup income on a stay at home week like this.

Speaking of having a week off, could you send me the text for your JAM and Ether C reviews, so I can add them to the beginner's guide page? Or paste them in yourself, if you feel like it.

I'm going to start posting my DSP setup videos this week too. Having some trouble re-downloading videos to my iPad so I can edit them, but I'm getting sick enough of waiting that I'm almost ready to just post them as-is.


----------



## zx6guy

Sorry to hear that as well.  I have one that I could make available when things turn up for you.  I should note, my check ins here have also become infrequent.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I know its not officially out yet but are there any Turtle Beach TAC impressions? I've been a little out of the loop! 
 I'm pretty excited about DTS X and Dolby Atmos.


----------



## lenroot77

helvetica bold said:


> I know its not officially out yet but are there any Turtle Beach TAC impressions? I've been a little out of the loop!
> I'm pretty excited about DTS X and Dolby Atmos.


----------



## Helvetica bold

haha thanks lenroot77, the TAC looks promising!!


----------



## Yethal

helvetica bold said:


> I know its not officially out yet but are there any Turtle Beach TAC impressions? I've been a little out of the loop!
> I'm pretty excited about DTS X and Dolby Atmos.



TAC doesn't have Atmos support. Realizer A16 is the only device that can do that.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey guys, my first video for my Surround Gaming Guide is up!

[Video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8tWvX6G0yE[/Video]

Planning on doing Tuesday videos, also will announce through Twitter @evshrug and my "If I Knew Then..." Thread in my signature!

If I get enough views, maybe I can convince Turtle Beach to lend me a TAC 

And Yethal...
[Size = 5]:vulcan_tone1:[/size]​


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> TAC doesn't have Atmos support. Realizer A16 is the only device that can do that.




How much is the Realizer A16? Cant remember the price...


----------



## Starburp701

Evshrug, wanted to update you on my vendetta. I ordered a Marantz SR5005 off of Ebay and it's supposed to be here on the 13th. As you may know, the X005 series was THE very last Marantz to contain Dolby Headphone. The only real differences between the 5,6, and 7 are the number of HDMIs and I believe the 7005 is able to decode FLAC. Assuming it's in "perfect working order!" I'll come back and share what I've found, compare it to what I'm using now, and IMHO if it's worth the $255.


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> How much is the Realizer A16? Cant remember the price...




It's not available yet, but I believe retail is going to be $1,500.


----------



## shuto77

starburp701 said:


> Evshrug, wanted to update you on my vendetta. I ordered a Marantz SR5005 off of Ebay and it's supposed to be here on the 13th. As you may know, the X005 series was THE very last Marantz to contain Dolby Headphone. The only real differences between the 5,6, and 7 are the number of HDMIs and I believe the 7005 is able to decode FLAC. Assuming it's in "perfect working order!" I'll come back and share what I've found, compare it to what I'm using now, and IMHO if it's worth the $255.




Are you currently using a Sound Blaster X7? That's really the comparison I'd like to see. 

Keep us in the loop.


----------



## Change is Good

Sad to see all the mixed reviews about Catalyst. Not surprised. Yet another mediocre game from DICE has emerged because EA is now pushing multiple IPs down their throats, simultaneously. Seriously having my doubts regarding BF1. Reminds me of Ubisoft and their Montreal studio. Good developers, but under incompetent control.

/rant over


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Sad to see all the mixed reviews about Catalyst. Not surprised. Yet another mediocre game from DICE has emerged because EA is now pushing multiple IPs down their throats, simultaneously. Seriously having my doubts regarding BF1. Reminds me of Ubisoft and their Montreal studio. Good developers, but under incompetent control.
> 
> /rant over




Well considering Battlefield franchise has a bigger fanbase, I dont think they can mess up that badley....at least I hope not.

But yeah...sucks that EA is really pushing them hard to release everything within a short period of time.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Well considering Battlefield franchise has a bigger fanbase, I dont think they can mess up that badley....at least I hope not.
> 
> But yeah...sucks that EA is really pushing them hard to release everything within a short period of time.




The franchise is really on edge after BF4's rough launch and Visceral's disappointing spin off. Not to mention the serious lack of meat and potatoes in SWBF is what has most fans skeptical about DICE, now.

If Mirrors Edge wasn't on their plate I think SWBF would have had much more to offer, honestly. Hopefully they just stick to Battlefield and Battlefront from here on out. Story driven games are not their forte, outside of Bad Company 1 and 2.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> The franchise is really on edge after BF4's rough launch and Visceral's disappointing spin off. Not to mention the serious lack of meat and potatoes in SWBF is what has most fans skeptical about DICE, now.
> 
> If Mirrors Edge wasn't on their plate I think SWBF would have had much more to offer, honestly. Hopefully they just stick to Battlefield and Battlefront from here on out. Story driven games are not their forte, outside of Bad Company 1 and 2.




I have to agree. But as a a Bad Company fan, I worry if they ever do release anot Bad Company game...will it be good enough?


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> I have to agree. But as a a Bad Company fan, I worry if they ever do release anot Bad Company game...will it be good enough?




I was thinking the same thing just as I was mentioning it. Highly doubt a BC3 would meet expectations. Are the same writers even still around? If not, then no need for BF fans to keep asking for it.


----------



## Change is Good

BTW, what are you guys looking/hoping for the most from E3? I just want the next Red Dead to be confirmed, whether it be there (since Take Two will be present) or separately by Rockstar. Nothing else really matters to me anymore.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> BTW, what are you guys looking/hoping for the most from E3? I just want the next Red Dead to be confirmed, whether it be there (since Take Two will be present) or separately by Rockstar. Nothing else really matters to me anymore.


 

 The Agent. Another Rockstar game, announced way back in 2007.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> The Agent. Another Rockstar game, announced way back in 2007.




:0

I completely forgot about that one!


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> :0
> 
> I completely forgot about that one!


 

 Supposedly it's a spy stealth/action game set in Cold War. All the right boxes checked!


----------



## Darkangelpt

Any reliable review on the turtle beach elite pro? Ou the tac unit?


----------



## kashim

guys i already have soundblaster z with akg k612 pro,i have bought in past for all genre of gaming,now i have a 5.1 on my smart tv for single player games and movies and want buy a competitive games headphone focued...i play cs go with my team really competitive...looking for a headphone with bigger soundstage and better positional accuracy...like mad lust envy said a "purely godlike hardcore gaming headphone"...i have read a lot of review and someone in this forum said me to loking between k701 - q701 - ad700x...hd598 is like my k612 then in think there is something better for competitive only use...k612 and hd598 are more balanced for games movies and  music....i think q701 is an overkill for gaming only(k701 is cheaper and have better soundstage,but sound worst for music)...if i m right k701 and ad700x are my best pick...in my country ad700x and k701 price are the same 145 euro and q701 is 280 euro...i don t think is worth it..i ask because i m scared for headphone bumps and don t know with sbx which sound better for gaming,soundstage,positional accuracy....can someone help me???(sorry for my bad english i really hope you understand me guys


----------



## kashim

i ll play counter strike with a team 99% of my time if can help


----------



## Vader2k

starburp701 said:


> @Evshrug, wanted to update you on my vendetta. I ordered a Marantz SR5005 off of Ebay and it's supposed to be here on the 13th. As you may know, the X005 series was THE very last Marantz to contain Dolby Headphone. The only real differences between the 5,6, and 7 are the number of HDMIs and I believe the 7005 is able to decode FLAC. Assuming it's in "perfect working order!" I'll come back and share what I've found, compare it to what I'm using now, and IMHO if it's worth the $255.


 
  
 Not a bad price, assuming it's in good working order.  I have the SR6005 and really like it.  I still use the mixamp when needing chat, but the bulk of my time is spent using the Marantz for single player gaming and movies/TV.  Enjoy!


----------



## Vader2k

change is good said:


> BTW, what are you guys looking/hoping for the most from E3? I just want the next Red Dead to be confirmed, whether it be there (since Take Two will be present) or separately by Rockstar. Nothing else really matters to me anymore.


 
  
 Oh, so much this!  Not only do I want the next Red Dead (sequel? prequel?), I'd love for them to announce an HD remaster of Redemption too.


----------



## Starburp701

Vader2k
Using a Sabrent USB card I believe I can still get seperate chat audio and mic. I have a Behringer 802 ($60) which I'll also feed everything into. Hopefully I can get it all to work! If so it wouldn't take much for you to have a premium audio experience at all times.


----------



## Vader2k

starburp701 said:


> @Vader2k
> Using a Sabrent USB card I believe I can still get seperate chat audio and mic. I have a Behringer 802 ($60) which I'll also feed everything into. Hopefully I can get it all to work! If so it wouldn't take much for you to have a premium audio experience at all times.


 
  
 Cool, yeah, share your results for sure!
  
 I do very little PC gaming, though, and when I do any online multiplayer it's only on console, so the mixamp serves it's purpose in that situation.  I owned it long before the Marantz and it's hard to get rid of it.


----------



## Starburp701

Vader2k
Im talking about ps4. I don't even own a pc


----------



## Vader2k

starburp701 said:


> @Vader2k
> Im talking about ps4. I don't even own a pc


 
  
 Oh really?  Wow, my bad.  Well, color me curious for sure.


----------



## Starburp701

Vader2k
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Adapter-Windows-AU-MMSA/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465404942&sr=1-3&keywords=Sabrent+usb

Its my fault for being so vague. Currently, I run a DSS with that plugged into the USB on it. I run a 3.5mm to 1/4 y cabe from the USB headphone port (which gives me seperate chat) and the actual DSS headphone port (which gives me game audio) into seperate lines on the mixer so I can adjust their volume accordingly. I run a 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo from the microphone port to the FX send on the Mixer. If I have my game audio being fed through HDMI with the AV receiver and use the Sabrent sound card directly plugged into the PS4 I don't see why I wouldn't be able to just feed everything back into the mixer just without the DSS (or Mix amp in your case). This could be revolutionary haha


----------



## Vader2k

starburp701 said:


> Vader2k
> https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-External-Adapter-Windows-AU-MMSA/dp/B00IRVQ0F8/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465404942&sr=1-3&keywords=Sabrent+usb
> 
> Its my fault for being so vague. Currently, I run a DSS with that plugged into the USB on it. I run a 3.5mm to 1/4 y cabe from the USB headphone port (which gives me seperate chat) and the actual DSS headphone port (which gives me game audio) into seperate lines on the mixer so I can adjust their volume accordingly. I run a 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo from the microphone port to the FX send on the Mixer. If I have my game audio being fed through HDMI with the AV receiver and use the Sabrent sound card directly plugged into the PS4 I don't see why I wouldn't be able to just feed everything back into the mixer just without the DSS (or Mix amp in your case). This could be revolutionary haha




Oh, one of those! I got ya. Cool.


----------



## conquerator2

Give me Getaway 3, Sony!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

More FFVII: Remake news, perhaps Tifa and Aeris reveals.

Surprise 'Valkyrie Profile: Hrist' reveal

Bloodstained, Cosmic Star Heroine release dates

Activision to announce that COD4: Modern Warfare Remastered will be released in a month, that way we don't have two CoD games dropping in November, and give people all summer to enjoy CoD4.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad, does that mean CoD4 remastered can be bought separately??


----------



## lenroot77

so many pairs of "rose colored glasses" will be shattered upon its release


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> so many pairs of "rose colored glasses" will be shattered upon its release




Lol! I have my disc and 360 right here buddy!
That said, the campaign is still an interesting story, but pretty dumb AI. Most places have infinitely spawning enemies (tho they don't instantly respawn), and they just run up to a preset spot and then aimbot shoot at you from there. They have a little subroutine if you get close. One of the things I liked about the halo series was how the AI would try to flank you sometimes, climb things, move around, and sometimes try to flee in terror. CoD had a cool plot and setpieces, that's what made it's campaign memorable.


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Lol! I have my disc and 360 right here buddy!
> That said, the campaign is still an interesting story, but pretty dumb AI. Most places have infinitely spawning enemies (tho they don't instantly respawn), and they just run up to a preset spot and then aimbot shoot at you from there. They have a little subroutine if you get close. One of the things I liked about the halo series was how the AI would try to flank you sometimes, climb things, move around, and sometimes try to flee in terror. CoD had a cool plot and setpieces, that's what made it's campaign memorable.




For sure it was cutting edge at the time. I was amazed by it for sure. Will be interesting to see how it holds up and what changes might be made.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Mad, does that mean CoD4 remastered can be bought separately??




Nope. Only for those who bought the bundle.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Nope. Only for those who bought the bundle.


 

 Lemme get this straight. If you buy Infinite Warfare *now, *You can play COD4 now and Infinite Warfare in November? So what's stopping me from downloading cod4 and cancelling my preorder?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Lemme get this straight. If you buy Infinite Warfare *now,* You can play COD4 now and Infinite Warfare in November? *So what's stopping me from downloading cod4 and cancelling my preorder?*




Great question.


----------



## Drizz1e

I was under the impression that you couldn't cancel pre-orders (on PSN at least).


----------



## Change is Good

Only way it would work for them (my guess) is if it only releases early for those who bought digital. Otherwise people can just cancel their physical copy pre orders after getting email codes for CoD4.

Just release the damn game separately. IW will still sell like crazy. It's CoD.


----------



## lenroot77

GameStop website says the code will be printed on the preorder receipt.


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Change is Good

I think that refers to the code for the BO3 points?


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> I think that refers to the code for the BO3 points?




Oops oops oops my bad sir


----------



## Evshrug

It doesn't specifically say the CoD4 game code... But it is just talking about "a code"


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> It doesn't specifically say the CoD4 game code... But it is just talking about "a code"


 
  
 Your reach game is strong.


----------



## rudyae86

Kind of reminds me of when I preo ordered the Division just to get a beta code then canceling the order on amazon lol.

Anyways, I'm only looking foward to BF 1 and AMD talking more about their new mid range GFX card...the RX480 and hopefully the RX490 whoch should compete against the 980 Ti and 1070.

Also want to see what all the hype is about with the PS Neo or PS4K.

I wish Nvidia had an event like they did 2 years ago, outside E3. I went to that Nvidia event and it was fun. Played against some pro gamers in Titanfall and we were destroyed lol.

Oh yeah, hope we get to see more about Titanfall 2.

I'm already a competitive gamer so this is a must for me.

Sometimes its great living in LA.....


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Your reach game is strong.



Strongest muscle in my body! Watch out for the puns!




rudyae86 said:


> Kind of reminds me of when I preo ordered the Division just to get a beta code then canceling the order on amazon lol.
> 
> Anyways, I'm only looking foward to BF 1 and AMD talking more about their new mid range GFX card...the RX480 and hopefully the RX490 whoch should compete against the 980 Ti and 1070.
> 
> ...



Yeah, a friend moved to LA recently and is trying to talk all of us into joining him.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Strongest muscle in my body! Watch out for the puns!
> Yeah, a friend moved to LA recently and is trying to talk all of us into joining him.




If you like crowded places and lots of traffic, LA is the place to be lol


----------



## Hansotek

rudyae86 said:


> If you like crowded places and lots of traffic, LA is the place to be lol


 
  
 ... and don't forget the fantastic weather, unlimited entertainment and gorgeous women everywhere you look.


----------



## conquerator2

hansotek said:


> ... and don't forget the fantastic weather, unlimited entertainment and gorgeous women everywhere you look.


 
 But don't forget expensive, disparity [between districts] and expensive!
 On a serious note, LA is awesome, but the more I've been there [3 times a month each so far] the more I am doubtful.
 It's certainly got its shine but there are drawbacks, alongside some of those applying to the whole of US, like health insurance and general disparity between states.
 The nice parts are great to experience though, but I now see my vision has been pink-glassed previously


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, the economic gap in big (tourist) cities has been a recurring problem here in the US. It's why I didn't last long in Miami. The price to live comfortably is too high for the average wage worker. Gaming and headphones would not be as big of hobbies (if at all) for me in such places.


----------



## martin vegas

I stay at lake Hollywood drive when I dj in LA..all my flights travel and accommodation are payed for..i don't even have to pay for my drinks..only bad side is it's too hot for me in the summer ,not used to that much heat being from the UK!


----------



## Yethal

Just a heads up. Astro is supposed to have their own top-secret meeting at E3. Hopefully a new product announcement.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Just a heads up. Astro is supposed to have their own top-secret meeting at E3. Hopefully a new product announcement.




AW DAMN WANT GO!!!


----------



## AxelCloris

I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall at that meeting.


----------



## rudyae86

hansotek said:


> ... and don't forget the fantastic weather, unlimited entertainment and gorgeous women everywhere you look.




Oh yeah! The Pros certainly are what make up for the cons.

Im going to be in Venice with some friends tonight. Its Friday and lots of gorgeous womens are going to be at the bars.

A lot of foreign girls as well 

Need to get out of the man cave once in a while and try to find a mate/s lol


----------



## AutumnCrown

I am surprised that few have mentioned gamecom 780/788 here. It's a great headphone in terms of virtual surround performance, as well as musical ability. It can do certain tracks better than my audiophile headphones. A bit bright and not the summit of comfort, but a solid design and performer.


----------



## rudyae86

autumncrown said:


> I am surprised that few have mentioned gamecom 780/788 here. It's a great headphone in terms of virtual surround performance, as well as musical ability. It can do certain tracks better than my audiophile headphones. A bit bright and not the summit of comfort, but a solid design and performer.




I've heard some interesting things about this HEADSET (not headphone ).

Someone recommended this headset to me a while ago when I was racing with him on Project Cars on steam. He said that I should purchase one and that I would be highly impressed by its sound signature. Im a bit skeptical but theres no reason why it should be bad.

Only bad thing about it is that it looks ugly lol well too gamer-ish robotic thing...


----------



## henhowc

yethal said:


> Just a heads up. Astro is supposed to have their own top-secret meeting at E3. Hopefully a new product announcement.


 
  
 assuming its just the new a50s. sounds like the same a50s with the features that were part of the a40 tr (mods, eq adjustment, etc.) and a new charging base. hope the actual headphone/sound quality is better.
  
 http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/games/digital/differences/PS4/Xbox_One/price/release-date/features/mixamp/the-new-astro-a50-wireless-headset-features-new-base-station-mod-kit-support-fully-wireless-on-xbox-one-dolby-headphone-71-more/32636


----------



## Yethal

henhowc said:


> assuming its just the new a50s. sounds like the same a50s with the features that were part of the a40 tr (mods, eq adjustment, etc.) and a new charging base. hope the actual headphone/sound quality is better.
> 
> http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/games/digital/differences/PS4/Xbox_One/price/release-date/features/mixamp/the-new-astro-a50-wireless-headset-features-new-base-station-mod-kit-support-fully-wireless-on-xbox-one-dolby-headphone-71-more/32636


 

 This may be it. Dunno, we'll find out soon.


----------



## AutumnCrown

rudyae86 said:


> I've heard some interesting things about this HEADSET (not headphone ).
> 
> Someone recommended this headset to me a while ago when I was racing with him on Project Cars on steam. He said that I should purchase one and that I would be highly impressed by its sound signature. Im a bit skeptical but theres no reason why it should be bad.
> 
> Only bad thing about it is that it looks ugly lol well too gamer-ish robotic thing...


 
 Yeah it's not very good looking in pictures, and even worse in real life 
  
 I would be happy to send it on a tour if a few people of repute were interested in trying it... though it's only $50 on newegg right now. If you don't own any headphones (or HEADSETS) that excel with acoustic guitar and vocals I would say it's worth it for that alone.


----------



## o0Julia0o

AKG K701 - good or bad for gaming?
  
 Quote:


arctia said:


> Note that K701 is not a gaming headphone; its left-right soundstage is much larger than depth. So when you have software emulate positional cues, you'll get an ellipse instead of a circle.


 
  
 vs.
  
*"Competitve: 10/10 (Legendary)"* 
  
*I ask me: Can Headphones - Stereo - make an elipse out of the sounds, the programmer have done for the game?*


----------



## Yethal

o0julia0o said:


> vs.
> 
> *"Competitve: 10/10 (Legendary)"*
> 
> *I ask me: Can Headphones - Stereo - make an elipse out of the sounds, the programmer have done for the game?*


 

 Elliptic soundstage means that if You have an object that emits a constant sound in the game (like a fireplace in Witcher or a flare in Battlefield) and You start rotating the camera, the object will not only travel around Your head but also seem to be farther or closer.


----------



## headphonesonly

#RIPCOD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Lemme get this straight. If you buy Infinite Warfare *now,* You can play COD4 now and Infinite Warfare in November? So what's stopping me from downloading cod4 and cancelling my preorder?




MY guess is that in order to play CoD4, you'll have to launch it from Infinite Warfare's main menu. That ensures Activision that you MUST have Infinite Warfare if you wanna play CoD4.

The only people who say RIPCOD are BF fanboys that actually think COD players would buy anything else but COD. There are BF gamers, and COD gamers. Nothing either company does will ever change that. People will tend to stick with whichever resonates more with them.

Face it, BF and COD cater to very different people. RIPCOD is about the stupidest thing I've seen in awhile. COD is never going to die, same as BF will never die.

The sheer number of people that will be playing CoD4 is likely going to trounce BF1 numbers, lol. The casual crowd will always levitate towards CoD.

In any case, I'm interested in playing BF1 because they've finally decided to HOPEFULLY do something different. At least in the campaign. I don't care about multiplayer. I only play COD for multiplayer because I' not a team player, and have no desire to ever cooperate with others. It's why I skipped Overwatch.

Before anyone even thinks of calling me a CoD fanboy, let me remind you that the last game I bought from CoD was Ghosts, and before that Black Ops 1. So yeah, I don't have a LOVE for CoD. I DO have a love for CoD4 however, and that will always be the best FPS game of all time for me. Other than that and BLOPS1, I mainly only rent CoD for their campaigns, and barely touch the multiplayers, especially lately.

I've actually bought and played MORE BF games than CoD games, ironically, and even so, I don't care for those games at all. They're too sluggish, too big, too team focused for my playstyle, and their campaigns are crap. I do have hopes for BF1's campaign being worth the rental.

I actually have more fun playing games like Syndicate, and whatever other FPS games have a fun single player campaign.


----------



## Change is Good

Thing is, both franchises keep getting worse because they keep catering and trying to steal the others' player base.


----------



## Change is Good

BF1 looks promising, but if there is an influx of CoD players migrating over we are going to be in for some major nerfing (more than usual) the first few months. All they do is complain about BF's difficulty curve. Sad days may be ahead.


----------



## Yethal

BF1 gameplay looked like a bf4 reskin with battlefront interface. I'm kinda disappointed.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> BF1 gameplay looked like a bf4 reskin with battlefront interface. I'm kinda disappointed.




It did, actually, but I guess that is what made it promising. Not really surprised when a game releases every year or two. As long as it's Battlefield and not Hardline: Grand Theft Duty.


----------



## rudyae86

Well you guys can dislike BF 1 all you want but I'm still getting it lol. Yes it seems like a reskin but guees what? Almost all games seem like a reskin nowadays especially if they use a similar game engine. There is no reason for DICE to try a new game engine in which they could make things worse for the game. BF4 as of now plays way better than when it first came out.

What I am really looking foward to is the game mechanics and how everything is going to be balanced as well as how the limited amount of weapons will workout. I like the idea of BF going back to the basics like in BF 1942. Hopefully it keeps that simpleness.

As for COD....its not going to ever RIP. You will always have your COD fanboys and BF fanboys. I will however get the latest COD to actually play the remake of COD MW. But lets be honest, the franchise has been going downhill lately and even the COD fanboys are really considering trying BF, change of pace I guess. I always think COD as of late has been catered more towards kids and teenagers nowadays. Compared to BF which seems to cater to all ages.
They are 2 different games for 2 different taste. 

Personally, I think COD needs to reinvent itself, especially because the name Call of Duty was meant to be used for the fallen heroes of world war 2, as a respect to them. The way the name is used now is more synonymous to a violent competitive arena. But I doubt they will get rid of the COD name because it has become too big and everyone knows it just as good as they know the Hubble Space telescope.

As for COD selling more copies than before or even BF 1? Well someone on the overclocking.net forums showed that the BF1 trailers have more views and likes than COD Infinite Warfare and COD IW had more dislikes and less views.

This could be very subjective because for all we know, BF fanboys probably disliked it as well. But some COD gamers are saying that they are getting pretty tired of COD, they will buy it however but probably wont play it as much since they do want to try something different hence BF 1.

I honestly like fast paced FPS games and COD MW was my favorite of all COD, second being COD 2 for PC but my playstyle does cater more towards BF 1 and I do have friends who PTFO, so the experience for me in BF games has been far from being boring. Compared to COD, I always felt like things would get out of hand completely and then you have players getting pissed off that they werent doing crap in the game or what not...just the chat all around was very competitive and stressful for some reason lol and I play competitively. I guess in COD games, it depends who you play with. 

Not saying that BF games dont have these problems, they do have them but I have probably had less occurrences with BF games than COD games for sure.

Also for me as of late, I feel BF games (BF3, BF4) have more replay value than COD. Like you actually grind to get those unlocks. In COD, it almost felt to easy to unlock most stuff. I would rank up so quick in COD BO 2 that I seriously stop playing it after 2 months. It bored me, even though it was a good game in a way but it was being too easy with the unlocks and everything.

With that being said....there is something we need to understand with what the game developers are doing...

They are being pushed hard and told to release these games a lot more quicker than usual. One perfect example was SW Battlefront.

There was an article where DICE themseleves said that they delivered an incomplete game (not exactly in those words but thats what they meant) mainly because EA wanted to release the game alongside woth the Primier of the new Star Wars movie.

Wwll obviously this isnt DICE fault but more on EA side. Why? Because money....there is nothing wrong with that, it is business as usual but it just seems that game developers are expected to deliver a game to a certain deadline, wether its finished or partially finished. And that is quite sad how the gaming industry has eveolved to. We use to wait 2 or 3 years for the next sequel of the game. Mod tools were given to keep us entertain and make mods or custom maps for games. Now all that is lost and replaced with yearly releaes in intervals (Like BF4, BF Hardline, SWBF, etc)

I think this is becoming more of a rant towards the end and I am on my phone on a Sunday evening doing nothing because I'm bored lol.

But yeah, BF1 reskin or not still looks cool...probabaly one of the best reskins so far lol.

COD reskins for the most part have not lived up to its hype and hopefully COD MW remake brings in some hope into what COD should always have been since the beginning.

Besides those 2 games...Im really looking foward to Titnfall 2, Rising Storm Vietnam, along with Batallion 1944


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, I'll be getting BF1 too. It will still be the better FPS the market has to offer as far as gameplay variety and replay-ability. I also agree with you about re-skins. Just look and Injustice 2. A reskin to MKX, which was a re-skin to the first Injustice, which was a re-skin to MK9. Dark Souls 3 was a re-skin of Bloodborne. Etc, etc.
  
 My concern is how the FPS genre is dying because of CoD. Here's interesting take on why if you can ignore the CoD hate and listen to what he says about the focus groups that are chosen when most FPS games are in development.
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk8y_rQ7aew


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> As for COD selling more copies than before or even BF 1? Well someone on the overclocking.net forums showed that the BF1 trailers have more views and likes than COD Infinite Warfare and COD IW had more dislikes and less views.
> 
> This could be very subjective because for all we know, BF fanboys probably disliked it as well. But some COD gamers are saying that they are getting pretty tired of COD, they will buy it however but probably wont play it as much since they do want to try something different hence BF 1.


 
  
 We often forget that the majority of casuals do not follow the internet as most of us do, outside of social media. People I know in real life don't even know about a game's existence unless they see ads on TV or Facebook. CoD will still sell like crazy, just as Madden and NBA 2K always will.


----------



## henhowc

some video of the new a50s
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoveuCJ8uvk


----------



## martin vegas

Here's a bit better gameplay from Battlefield 1..


----------



## Arniesb

mad lust envy said:


> MY guess is that in order to play CoD4, you'll have to launch it from Infinite Warfare's main menu. That ensures Activision that you MUST have Infinite Warfare if you wanna play CoD4.
> 
> The only people who say RIPCOD are BF fanboys that actually think COD players would buy anything else but COD. There are BF gamers, and COD gamers. Nothing either company does will ever change that. People will tend to stick with whichever resonates more with them.
> 
> ...


Pretty much agree about campaign parts. Even Cod Ghosts blow away any BF single player! And if you compare BF campaigns against MW first 2 parts and BO 2 parts, BF become pathetic in comparison. I cant imagine EA can bring good single player any time soon.


----------



## Fegefeuer

COD campaigns are untouchable, except for BO3. That one was amazingly terrible


----------



## Yethal

henhowc said:


> some video of the new a50s
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoveuCJ8uvk


 

 Was going to post the exact same video.


fegefeuer said:


> COD campaigns are untouchable, except for BO3. That one was amazingly terrible


 

 BO2 had an awesome campaign. Decision making was actually better than some RPG I played due to the fact that decisions (some of them at least) were made inside the gameplay and not the dialogue options.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, Titanfall 2 looks fun. All DLC being free post launch is awesome. I wish more would do the same and rid this season pass crap.




fegefeuer said:


> COD campaigns are untouchable, except for BO3. That one was amazingly terrible




Really? They've all been forgettable to me (except the early MWs), just like most other military shooter campaigns. I have yet to buy or play a CoD campaign this gen, however. Still want to try the one with Spacey.

The Bad Company campaigns, on the other hand, they are untouchable.


----------



## octiceps

Red Orchestra 2/Rising Storm/Heroes of the West and PlanetSide 2 were my favorite multiplayer FPS of the last few years. I had to mostly stop playing RO2/RS though because the free aim system in ADS seriously screwed with my ability to hit anything and my performance in other shooters. Hopefully RS2: Vietnam gets rid of it, or at least gives players the option for raw mouse input.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Has anyone tried the Fostex T40/50rp for gaming? 
Been checking them out and they look like a good investment for the price (especially with that $50 rebate), though I will probably have to find a good amp to run those. 
Also anyone know if a US amazon account with prime will still work in Canada?


----------



## Starburp701

Vader2k
It's confirmed! You can most definitely run seperate game/audio chat with mic + other features like mic monitoring, capability to play your own music through your headset, feed any audio you want to your peers, etc.. all for around $100. 
What you'll need is a behringer 802 mixer (not usb version($60 new)), Sabrent USB sound card ($6), xlr input microphone (around $20), Hosa 1/4 TRS to dual TS 1/4 Y cable (from AVR to mixer($5-7)), Hosa 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo (mic input on Sabrent to mixer ($5-7),3.5mm to 1/4 Y cable (Sabrent HP out to mixer (around $5)),
I would buy a couple extra 3.5mm to 1/4 in Y cables so you can plug things like your phone, mp3 player, or CPU into the mixer too. Also, get a few 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters so you can transform your cables if you need to. 
From the HP jack on the AVR I run that to 5/6 so I can get eq's on my game audio. The single 1/4 to 3.5 you run from FX Send to the mic input on the mixer essentially acts as a audio input for the PS4 so whoever you're chatting with will be able to hear anything that you twist the FX knob up on; maybe like a playlisy for a raid.. except it will be mp3 quality instead of coming through your mic. The 3.5 to 1/4 y feeds into stereo aux and the aux return knob will make chat louder or softer... and of course you'll use a kick ass pair of cans from the HP out on the mixer (which you'll obviously need a 3.5 to 1/4 adapter for) to get all of your audio. I'm typing this on my phone and left a lot of detail out. It's actually quite simple and we'll worth the money. Hope I was able to enlighten you on getting the best possible audio experience from your receiver! PM me if you have any questions or want me to make up a shopping cart on Amazon for everything you need.


----------



## Yethal

starburp701 said:


> Vader2k
> It's confirmed! You can most definitely run seperate game/audio chat with mic + other features like mic monitoring, capability to play your own music through your headset, feed any audio you want to your peers, etc.. all for around $100.
> What you'll need is a behringer 802 mixer (not usb version($60 new)), Sabrent USB sound card ($6), xlr input microphone (around $20), Hosa 1/4 TRS to dual TS 1/4 Y cable (from AVR to mixer($5-7)), Hosa 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo (mic input on Sabrent to mixer ($5-7),3.5mm to 1/4 Y cable (Sabrent HP out to mixer (around $5)),
> I would buy a couple extra 3.5mm to 1/4 in Y cables so you can plug things like your phone, mp3 player, or CPU into the mixer too. Also, get a few 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters so you can transform your cables if you need to.
> From the HP jack on the AVR I run that to 5/6 so I can get eq's on my game audio. The single 1/4 to 3.5 you run from FX Send to the mic input on the mixer essentially acts as a audio input for the PS4 so whoever you're chatting with will be able to hear anything that you twist the FX knob up on; maybe like a playlisy for a raid.. except it will be mp3 quality instead of coming through your mic. The 3.5 to 1/4 y feeds into stereo aux and the aux return knob will make chat louder or softer... and of course you'll use a kick ass pair of cans from the HP out on the mixer (which you'll obviously need a 3.5 to 1/4 adapter for) to get all of your audio. I'm typing this on my phone and left a lot of detail out. It's actually quite simple and we'll worth the money. Hope I was able to enlighten you on getting the best possible audio experience from your receiver! PM me if you have any questions or want me to make up a shopping cart on Amazon for everything you need.




Why the hell would You use such a complicated setup?


----------



## shuto77

starburp701 said:


> Vader2k
> It's confirmed! You can most definitely run seperate game/audio chat with mic + other features like mic monitoring, capability to play your own music through your headset, feed any audio you want to your peers, etc.. all for around $100.
> What you'll need is a behringer 802 mixer (not usb version($60 new)), Sabrent USB sound card ($6), xlr input microphone (around $20), Hosa 1/4 TRS to dual TS 1/4 Y cable (from AVR to mixer($5-7)), Hosa 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo (mic input on Sabrent to mixer ($5-7),3.5mm to 1/4 Y cable (Sabrent HP out to mixer (around $5)),
> I would buy a couple extra 3.5mm to 1/4 in Y cables so you can plug things like your phone, mp3 player, or CPU into the mixer too. Also, get a few 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters so you can transform your cables if you need to.
> From the HP jack on the AVR I run that to 5/6 so I can get eq's on my game audio. The single 1/4 to 3.5 you run from FX Send to the mic input on the mixer essentially acts as a audio input for the PS4 so whoever you're chatting with will be able to hear anything that you twist the FX knob up on; maybe like a playlisy for a raid.. except it will be mp3 quality instead of coming through your mic. The 3.5 to 1/4 y feeds into stereo aux and the aux return knob will make chat louder or softer... and of course you'll use a kick ass pair of cans from the HP out on the mixer (which you'll obviously need a 3.5 to 1/4 adapter for) to get all of your audio. I'm typing this on my phone and left a lot of detail out. It's actually quite simple and we'll worth the money. Hope I was able to enlighten you on getting the best possible audio experience from your receiver! PM me if you have any questions or want me to make up a shopping cart on Amazon for everything you need.







yethal said:


> Why the hell would You use such a complicated setup?




Aside from the impressive level of complexity, does this setup sound any good? It sounds like the audio signal has to pass through a lot of channels before it reaches your headphones.


----------



## pervysage

Ordered the new Turtle Beach TAC from Amazon since it is released now. Figured I can return it if I don't like it compared to my current Astro Mixamp 2011.
  
 Will leave feedback here when I receive it in a couple days.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Amazon.com reviews are really embarassing and downright amazing at the same time. Nobody in his right mind is taking even one of those reviews serious. What a bad joke.


----------



## Change is Good

That's a lot of free product reviews lol


----------



## Darkangelpt

Just test it. I have the mixamp pro tr. 
One other things wich I have is using chat adapter for Xbox. 
Can tou check chat via USB? Ps4 or xbox one?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Infinite Warfare campaign looks awesome as fuuuu. Something I could never say about Blops III campaign which was a crapfest.

Found it ironic how everyone was loving the campaign reveal until CoD logo showed up. All the bandwagon haters exposed themselves yesterday. Instead of judging a game based on gameplay, they immediately started the hate as soon as they saw that it was CoD. had it been called Space Opera 2985958, Halo 7, Titanfall, they'd have praised it.

I hate people. I really do.


----------



## Vader2k

starburp701 said:


> @Vader2k
> It's confirmed! You can most definitely run seperate game/audio chat with mic + other features like mic monitoring, capability to play your own music through your headset, feed any audio you want to your peers, etc.. all for around $100.
> What you'll need is a behringer 802 mixer (not usb version($60 new)), Sabrent USB sound card ($6), xlr input microphone (around $20), Hosa 1/4 TRS to dual TS 1/4 Y cable (from AVR to mixer($5-7)), Hosa 3.5mm to 1/4 stereo (mic input on Sabrent to mixer ($5-7),3.5mm to 1/4 Y cable (Sabrent HP out to mixer (around $5)),
> I would buy a couple extra 3.5mm to 1/4 in Y cables so you can plug things like your phone, mp3 player, or CPU into the mixer too. Also, get a few 3.5mm to 1/4 adapters so you can transform your cables if you need to.
> From the HP jack on the AVR I run that to 5/6 so I can get eq's on my game audio. The single 1/4 to 3.5 you run from FX Send to the mic input on the mixer essentially acts as a audio input for the PS4 so whoever you're chatting with will be able to hear anything that you twist the FX knob up on; maybe like a playlisy for a raid.. except it will be mp3 quality instead of coming through your mic. The 3.5 to 1/4 y feeds into stereo aux and the aux return knob will make chat louder or softer... and of course you'll use a kick ass pair of cans from the HP out on the mixer (which you'll obviously need a 3.5 to 1/4 adapter for) to get all of your audio. I'm typing this on my phone and left a lot of detail out. It's actually quite simple and we'll worth the money. Hope I was able to enlighten you on getting the best possible audio experience from your receiver! PM me if you have any questions or want me to make up a shopping cart on Amazon for everything you need.


 
  
 Cool that you got it to work, though I agree with others that it sounds complicated to setup.  Still, it's an interesting alternative.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> The Infinite Warfare campaign looks awesome as fuuuu. Something I could never say about Blops III campaign which was a crapfest.
> 
> Found it ironic how everyone was loving the campaign reveal until CoD logo showed up. All the bandwagon haters exposed themselves yesterday. Instead of judging a game based on gameplay, they immediately started the hate as soon as they saw that it was CoD. had it been called Space Opera 2985958, Halo 7, Titanfall, they'd have praised it.
> 
> I hate people. I really do.




I think the real problem here is the MP aspect and probably the reason why a lot of people hate COD with a passion. Though I have to agree, the SP looks pretty cool and interesting.

But I wouldnt be surprised if the SP is only 8 hours long.....lol


----------



## Yethal

To paraphrase Huey Lewis: It's hip to hate COD.


----------



## Starburp701

vader2k said:


> Not a bad price, assuming it's in good working order.  I have the SR6005 and really like it.  I still use the mixamp when needing chat, but the bulk of my time is spent using the Marantz for single player gaming and movies/TV.  Enjoy!







vader2k said:


> Cool, yeah, share your results for sure!
> 
> I do very little PC gaming, though, and when I do any online multiplayer it's only on console, so the mixamp serves it's purpose in that situation.  I owned it long before the Marantz and it's hard to get rid of it.




It's really not that complex. you just need specific cables so it sounds worse than it is. I do it so I can get seperate game & chat audio with equalizers, so I can play music through my Q701's, and so I can use my microphone input as a general audio input for streaming, playing music for friends, etc.

You don't lose any quality because I'm not daisy chaining anything, really. Just feeding the AVR and usb sound card into a mixer. I don't even need a headphone amp anymore. Can I post a pic on here? I'm not familiar with the rules.


----------



## Starburp701

I'm not really familiar with quoting so that didn't really justify what everyone else was asking. You get the point lol


----------



## o0Julia0o

if i put a ModMic on the side of a AKG 701, will it change the sound of the AKG701? Because there are holes on the side. Thank you!


----------



## AxelCloris

o0julia0o said:


> if i put a ModMic on the side of a AKG 701, will it change the sound of the AKG701? Because there are holes on the side. Thank you!




While not 100% the same, I had no issues with the ModMoc and a Q701. Great combo.


----------



## Starburp701

o0julia0o said:


> if i put a ModMic on the side of a AKG 701, will it change the sound of the AKG701? Because there are holes on the side. Thank you!




I also run Q701's with a modmic 4.0. It didn't cover nearly enough space to effect the sound


----------



## shuto77

starburp701 said:


> It's really not that complex. you just need specific cables so it sounds worse than it is. I do it so I can get seperate game & chat audio with equalizers, so I can play music through my Q701's, and so I can use my microphone input as a general audio input for streaming, playing music for friends, etc.
> 
> You don't lose any quality because I'm not daisy chaining anything, really. Just feeding the AVR and usb sound card into a mixer. I don't even need a headphone amp anymore. Can I post a pic on here? I'm not familiar with the rules.




That's actually rather intriguing. You're certainly allowed to post pictures. 

I'm considering going back to an AVR, but poor DSP out of the headphone output has been keeping me from doing so. That was why I replaced my Pioneer VSX-1121 with the Sound Blaster X7.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> The Infinite Warfare campaign looks awesome as fuuuu. Something I could never say about Blops III campaign which was a crapfest.
> 
> Found it ironic how everyone was loving the campaign reveal until CoD logo showed up. All the bandwagon haters exposed themselves yesterday. Instead of judging a game based on gameplay, they immediately started the hate as soon as they saw that it was CoD. had it been called Space Opera 2985958, Halo 7, Titanfall, they'd have praised it.
> 
> I hate people. I really do.




I knew it was CoD the moment the grappling hook and neck breaking came about. 

I will admit I thought, at first, it was a VR Mass Effect demo or something. Were those area hubs the captain was choosing from in the beginning? If we are free to explore as we like, they may just have something going for themselves.

Will there be online space dogfights, though? How they innovate in the MP aspect of the game is how this game will be judged, unfortunately. Unless they mostly focus on the campaign and give us hours of exploration and gameplay. Doubt it.


----------



## Starburp701

shuto77 said:


> That's actually rather intriguing. You're certainly allowed to post pictures.
> 
> I'm considering going back to an AVR, but poor DSP out of the headphone output has been keeping me from doing so. That was why I replaced my Pioneer VSX-1121 with the Sound Blaster X7.




http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/Travis_Kuhl/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160614_205439_zpsuozijzmx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/Travis_Kuhl/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160614_205427_zps2fmxz2hv.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/Travis_Kuhl/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160614_205311_zpspoi7a2dx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/Travis_Kuhl/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160614_205311_zpspoi7a2dx.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6


----------



## Yethal

Please, next time just use the "add image" option.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I knew it was CoD the moment the grappling hook and neck breaking came about.
> 
> I will admit I thought, at first, it was a VR Mass Effect demo or something. Were those area hubs the captain was choosing from in the beginning? If we are free to explore as we like, they may just have something going for themselves.
> 
> Will there be online space dogfights, though? How they innovate in the MP aspect of the game is how this game will be judged, unfortunately. Unless they mostly focus on the campaign and give us hours of exploration and gameplay. Doubt it.




Yeah, like I said before COD does get rated more on its MP aspect than its SP aspect.

And this is the reality, COD is k own more for its MP.

If COD really wanted to make their franchise worthwhile, they really need to make a longer SP. I felt that most of the CODs have a short campaign that has little replay value.

Now many people say that BF games have bad SP and I agree....why? The first BF games never had an SP lol

They were all about the MP experience and it did so well.

But the Bad Company series had some really good SP.

I just kind of wish COD wouldtake a break from the futuristic setting....like I said before, it has strayed away so much from where it had really started from and maybe going back to an older setting would be nice.


----------



## eXistencelies

I have been looking for a replacement external amp/dac to replace my Asus Xonar STX soundcard that powers both my AKG Q701 (have to use high gain setting for these headphones on the soundcard) and ATH M50x. Anyone have any opinions? Would like to keep it at the same quality and would like to keep surround/Dobly if possible. Also not trying to break the bank either. I will be selling off this soundcard as well that I will use towards the new amp/dac. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.


----------



## o0Julia0o

starburp701 said:


> I also run Q701's with a modmic 4.0. It didn't cover nearly enough space to effect the sound


 
 o.k., great - thank you. Or you put it over here(on left side of course):





 or is the surface to small?


----------



## o0Julia0o

starburp701 said:


> I also run Q701's with a modmic 4.0. It didn't cover nearly enough space to effect the sound


 

 Is there enough space to put it on the inner non-hole-surface?


----------



## AxelCloris

Here's an old photo of how I mounted my ModMic to the Q701. I also braided the stock cable to make it shorter and when braiding I also braided in the ModMic cable so that they were always together. Worked like a champ and honestly I kinda miss the old girl.


----------



## explicitlol

Okay guys I have a quick question for you? In the $350-500 range what would you recommend for a headphone that is primarily used to play CS:GO, I'm trying to decide between the K712's HD-650 or HD700, Hifiman he400i's and I'm open to any other recommendation. I'll most likely use a schiit modi2u/magni2u to drive them!


----------



## shuto77

explicitlol said:


> Okay guys I have a quick question for you? In the $350-500 range what would you recommend for a headphone that is primarily used to play CS:GO, I'm trying to decide between the K712's HD-650 or HD700, Hifiman he400i's and I'm open to any other recommendation. I'll most likely use a schiit modi2u/magni2u to drive them!




Someone is selling a MrSpeakers Alpha Prime with a case and extra pads in the Classifieds for $500 shipped. 

Jump on it!


----------



## explicitlol

Haven't really heard much about those. Was looking to buy new from amazon!


----------



## Yethal

explicitlol said:


> Okay guys I have a quick question for you? In the $350-500 range what would you recommend for a headphone that is primarily used to play CS:GO, I'm trying to decide between the K712's HD-650 or HD700, Hifiman he400i's and I'm open to any other recommendation. I'll most likely use a schiit modi2u/magni2u to drive them!


 

 Have You tried *the first post in this entire thread*?


----------



## explicitlol

yethal said:


> Have You tried *the first post in this entire thread*?


 
 Didn't know it was wrong to seek the opinions of others. Now off with your passive aggressiveness.


----------



## Yethal

explicitlol said:


> Didn't know it was wrong to seek the opinions of others. Now off with your passive aggressiveness.


 

 Dude, seriously. Eveyrthing You need to know is in the first post.


----------



## explicitlol

yethal said:


> Dude, seriously. Eveyrthing You need to know is in the first post.


 
 I understand that. I'm asking the opinions of others. I like to hear from a variety of sources before spending $400+ on a pair of cans. I don't know why this is bothering you.


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## Change is Good

Just get a Philips SHP9500 and save $300+. No need to spend more if primarily for gaming. You won't even need a schiit stack.

There's my opinion.


----------



## rudyae86

explicitlol said:


> Didn't know it was wrong to seek the opinions of others. Now off with your passive aggressiveness.




I think your question is a bit vague.

We need more info and details about maybe like your current set up, games you play, competitive or casual play, will you listen to music as well, etc etc.

Also it seems like you say primarily for CS GO which probably means you play competitively. Although most of the headphones you mention sound good they each have their pros and cons, they dont sound alike. They also are not the best headphones when it comes to competitive gaming, maybe the K712 defines a good line of immersion and competitive but there are other headphones that do it better for competitive gaming.

Reason he says if you have read the first page is because you need to read up on each of the headphones details and then compare them in a way they would favor you mostly.

But yeah your question was vague and came out as an easy question for an easy answer, like some new people that come in here and just ask what is the best headphone?

I mean seriously, many come in here for just that but sadly there is no best headphone.

So yeah, rethink your thoughts and come back with a more specific question regarding the headphones you mention and ask questions about each headphone.

Reading is knowledge...


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Just get a Philips SHP9500 and save $300+. No need to spend more if primarily for gaming. You won't even need a schiit stack.
> 
> There's my opinion.




No Change...lies

Everybody knows that the HD800/S is where its at!

Lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

rudyae86 said:


> No Change...lies
> 
> Everybody knows that the HD800/S is where its at!
> 
> Lol


 
  
 Well, it is. If you want to afford it.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> No Change...lies
> 
> Everybody knows that the HD800/S is where its at!
> 
> Lol



My heart says yes but my wallet says no.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Please, next time just use the "add image" option.



To be fair, and if I remember correctly, there is a certain amount of time that someone is required to be a member of Head-Fi before they can post pictures. You know, to prevent spam.



rudyae86 said:


> Yeah, like I said before COD does get rated more on its MP aspect than its SP aspect. And this is the reality, COD is k own more for its MP. If COD really wanted to make their franchise worthwhile, they really need to make a longer SP. I felt that most of the CODs have a short campaign that has little replay value.
> 
> Now many people say that BF games have bad SP and I agree....why? The first BF games never had an SP lol
> They were all about the MP experience and it did so well.
> ...



Please excuse me for editing your quote to kinda... group paragraphs.
I would pretty strongly disagree with several of these statements, agree with some, not have an opinion on others. I only played a demo of Bad Company, so I can't judge it. Battlefield 3's campaign was like a poor cousin of BLOPS', I don't know how that happened, but despite a few nice moments BF3's campaign was just too easy to compare to BLOPS and simply wasn't as interesting. I THINK I beat BF4's campaign? I honestly can't remember the first level, and I usually remember stories, movies, and game campaigns. The only thing I remember of BF4's campaign was the squad leader loses a leg, later on talks you into leaving him to drown in a van, all the while trying to justify everything that's happening by relating it to wolves. Also, the trailer had me obsessing about "Total Eclipse of the Heart" for awhile. But fragmented rant aside, I don't expect DICE to tell a great story, but I want a good one and judge each installment on their own merits.

People do expect a fun action story from CoD games, more than just a "tick the box" experience. It's fun, they try something different from time to time, have memorable setpiece "events," and most people play it through at least once. I've been having a tough time sloughing through BLOPS3's campaign... The missions have fair variety of gameplay, but each mission just seems to take so long, and I have a hard time relating to or enjoying what's happening on screen. Escaping a Russian prison with a sorta crazy accomplice (who somehow was in WWII as well)? Fun! Going through a dark stormy dock or through a blacked out science lab to hunt former teammates you met for 5 minutes 3 years ago under overtones of a conspiracy? Uh... Doesn't have a hook for me. But CoD can do neat stuff, and I for one don't mind the freedom of telling future stories... I actually found Ghost's story pretty fun. I'm with MLE here... I hadn't watched any footage or gameplay of MW:IW (infinity ward?) before the E3 conference, and liked what I saw in the trailer. Space flight combat could be really cool! I also liked the Mass Effect Galaxy Map/Destiny Director looking mission select screen... Maybe CoD is trying to borrow from Bungie again and try to make a replayable single player experience, with perhaps some choices and nonlinear interweaving?

In general for a story campaign, I don't think it needs to be long to be good. Dragon Age: Inquisition was good but it sure felt like there was LOTS of MMO-style time padding and grind, two things which I rarely find "fun." CoD's best campaign moments come from moments the player can relate to: CoD4 was set in a fictional war in the Middle East, when... America was involved in a war in the Middle East. I was a bit worried about the draft coming back. There was that moment we played a soldier trying to save a pilot that had saved our necks a few times in the campaign, but we got caught in a nuke. There was the first person moment where we were paraded through the streets, before being assassinated, first person. The powerful feeling of sneaking around in a ghillie suit or raining death from above in an AC-130. The worst parts of the game were when playing in the streets of "War Pig" in the part that looked like the multiplayer level "Crossfire," because enemies would respawn infinitely if you didn't advance, and gameplay was basically pick of a few entrenched enemies, sprint forward a bit, heal, snipe a few more, repeat. Bleh. Unfortunately, a lot of Battlefield multiplayer feels like that to me (assaulting a point), which is why I liked the planes and the indoor chaotic rushing moments that occurred sometimes. I also think a fair marker of success and "fun" comes from responsive controls, and the feeling empowerment without being too powerful that killing and dying is really easy. If my controls and the maps give me multiple options instead of feeling like "Here's the battle lines, and here's the meat-grinder no man's land inbetween," then I feel like my actions matter and I can make a difference.

The illusion of these continuing franchises is that the games are a known quantity before they come out. I'm sure everyone will agree that Battlefront 2 and 3 don't feel like the same experience, even if a lot of the mechanics are carried over. Same goes for the CoD games and Halo games. We'll see, eh?




explicitlol said:


> Okay guys I have a quick question for you? In the $350-500 range what would you recommend for a headphone that is primarily used to play CS:GO, I'm trying to decide between the K712's HD-650 or HD700, Hifiman he400i's and I'm open to any other recommendation. I'll most likely use a schiit modi2u/magni2u to drive them!



The reason you got push back is basically people ask the same question once or twice a week. Also, the question is quick, but usually they don't seem like the people asking didn't put much though into the question, yet somehow expect a thoughtful answer. It starts to feel like unappreciated work for anyone who is a regular to this thread.

That said, for CS:GO, which is more of a sport than a game at this point, I'd recommend picking something with lots of comfort, good detail but a little subdued treble so the sharper sounds don't get fatiguing while you can still pick out a reload or any sign of a grenade before it explodes. Competitive play will depend on plenty of factors beyond audio, though of course audio can affect your awareness and reaction time factors. Also, consider if you're playing from home/dorm, or at a loud venue. If at a loud venue, you're pretty much going to throw away all audio fitness in exchange for isolation and being able to hear teammates and just generally react to "the action's over that way," and won't be too much help when you're shooting. I personally hate how sharp the gunshots are, and I'd probably pick a Sennheiser HD600, Sony MDR-MA900, or something with neutral or veiled highs if I was only going to focus on playing CS:GO. Well-executed N-shaped headphones are your friend. If you were playing a variety of games, maybe enjoying music and movies too, I think the K712 is a really strong all 'rounder. I'd recommend (opinion) against an HD700 or Beyerdynamic, you're using a sharp headphone on top of a sharp-sounding game. I haven't personally heard an X2 or spent much time with an HE400i, so no comment. IMO you don't need to spend the big bucks to play CS:GO, just need comfort physically and audibly.


----------



## o0Julia0o

axelcloris said:


> Here's an old photo of how I mounted my ModMic to the Q701. I also braided the stock cable to make it shorter and when braiding I also braided in the ModMic cable so that they were always together. Worked like a champ and honestly I kinda miss the old girl.


 

 thank you. O.k., you can´t braid a single cable. And the sound doesn´t change, because you add the modmic on the holes?


----------



## AxelCloris

o0julia0o said:


> thank you. O.k., you can´t braid a single cable. And the sound doesn´t change, because you add the modmic on the holes?


 
  
 You can definitely braid a single cable because I did, as seen in my photo. Here's a YouTube video to show you how.
  

  
 The sound did not change after adding the ModMic. It has such a small footprint that it doesn't obstruct the airflow for the drivers.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> To be fair, and if I remember correctly, there is a certain amount of time that someone is required to be a member of Head-Fi before they can post pictures. You know, to prevent spam.
> Please excuse me for editing your quote to kinda... group paragraphs.
> I would pretty strongly disagree with several of these statements, agree with some, not have an opinion on others. I only played a demo of Bad Company, so I can't judge it. Battlefield 3's campaign was like a poor cousin of BLOPS', I don't know how that happened, but despite a few nice moments BF3's campaign was just too easy to compare to BLOPS and simply wasn't as interesting. I THINK I beat BF4's campaign? I honestly can't remember the first level, and I usually remember stories, movies, and game campaigns. The only thing I remember of BF4's campaign was the squad leader loses a leg, later on talks you into leaving him to drown in a van, all the while trying to justify everything that's happening by relating it to wolves. Also, the trailer had me obsessing about "Total Eclipse of the Heart" for awhile. But fragmented rant aside, I don't expect DICE to tell a great story, but I want a good one and judge each installment on their own merits.
> 
> ...




Only BF campaigns worth mentioning are the Bad Company ones. Using BF3/4 campaigns as comparison do them no justice. I'll say it one last time. Untouchable. Also much more relatable than your generic core COD/BF modern military campaigns. Instead of Rambo/Bond you are an average jarhead hanging around your sarcastic military buddies in the Middle East. Hilarious moments, at times, yet realistic situations.

Instead of DA: Inquisition, Witcher 3 would be better reference for long story campaigns without MMO style fillers and fetch quests. That's how you put together a free roam experience that doesn't become a bore fest.

I do give credit to BO, MW1, and WaW as far as COD campaigns go. This gen I've heard only AW is worth trying. IW's campaign looks interesting no doubt.

But again, linear military style campaigns? Bad Company 1/2 hands down. You should try them if you haven't.


----------



## explicitlol

Thanks Evshrug! I'd quote you but I don't want to take up a lot of room haha. I went ahead and ordered the K712. Decided it was what fit me the best.


----------



## playmate

I got a deal for a used pair of Denon AH-D2000 for around 80$. I'm thinking og getting them as a (semi)closed compliment to my SHP9500 for gaming. Though I already have both the CAL! (partial marklmod) and AKG K550. I'm thinking the Denons (with mod?) be a big upgrade to both, but a lot of people say they perform very similar to both AKG k550 and it's baby brother that is Denon AH-D1001 (that is the same as CAL!). Any suggestions?


----------



## o0Julia0o

axelcloris said:


> You can definitely braid a single cable


 
 oh, thank you. Now i understand.


----------



## jincuteguy

So how is the new Turtle Beach TAC device? is it better than X7 / G5?


----------



## pervysage

Received the Turtle Beach TAC today and it is going right back to Amazon. Most definitely not worth it's $200 price tag.
  
 The fact that this thing has like 16 4 & 5 star reviews on Amazon right now is sickening (wonder why they are all Vine Customer Free Product Reviews?)
  
 All of the presets sound awful and very unnatural. 
  
 I actually watched a YouTube video showcasing the TAC's sound vs. the Mixamp and I still decided to try out the TAC even though it sounded pretty bad in the YouTube video (I thought maybe the guy had just selected a bad sounding preset or something). This YouTube video pretty much shows how the TAC sounds (wear headphones when watching it)
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tmZeZekjLM
  
 As I was saying, the presets all sound really bad... I literally can't enjoy the game with any of the presets on. The only decent sounding setting is NO SURROUND which effectively makes using this device useless in the first place! The presets sound totally unnatural, very tinny and high pitched and fatiguing on the ears.
  
 None of this unnatural tinny sound seems to help with hearing footsteps and action around the map any better. Astro Mixamp with DH does a much better job in every way.
  
 If I have to say one good thing about this thing, I'll say the build quality is pretty decent for a Turtle Beach product. But this build quality seems to only apply to the exterior.
  
 Immediately ran into tons of issues with static (which I determined only occurred with a AUX cable plugged in from my computer (effectively making the AUX port on this device useless). I have no issues whatsoever running an AUX cable to my Astro Mixamp. 
  
 As far as mic quality goes (I did not purchase the actual Turtle Beach headset, I use a HD800 and Antlion Modmic 4.0), my friends commented that my voice sounded like it had lots of static. Switching back to Astro Mixamp immediately fixes the problem.... Okay? Great quality stuff Turtle Beach!
  
 You guys can try it out if you want to but I hope you don't have high expectations.


----------



## octiceps

No comments about Xbox Scorpio?

While the specs seem impressive now, they will be much less so in 1.5 years when the thing actually releases. And then there's the matter of pricing and XB1 getting the short end of the stick, even moreso than PS4 vs. Neo.


----------



## burritoboy9984

What amp are you using pervy?


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> No comments about Xbox Scorpio?
> 
> While the specs seem impressive now, they will be much less so in 1.5 years when the thing actually releases. And then there's the matter of pricing and XB1 getting the short end of the stick, even moreso than PS4 vs. Neo.




Meanwhile, Im here with my PC that can do 4K at 30fps with medium to high settings.....

But seriously, Microsoft is really just using the best of marketing right now.

From I have read so far is that Scorpio will need to use something as powerful as a 980 Ti to even make games playable at native 4k. First and foremost it will be the pricing. Scorpio will not cost 300 to 400 but more likely 600 to 700 in terms of how much a 980 Ti or a GTX 1070 cost. But since AMD has the console deals, it cpuld be that the console can be cheaper and use a Polaris 10 based GPU...reducing cost.

There is possibly "console optimization" which can benefit gamers but considering how demanding 4K is even for a PC, dont expect medium to high settingat and 60fps at 4k when Scorpio comes out...if anything it will be low to medium settings at 30fps or possibly just low settings barely hitting 60fps, just like when PS4 and XBONE releasd 3 years ago and said they were upscaling BF4 and had a fluctuating 60fps, dropping to 38fps at some points.

So yeah, expect that 4k console to go up down in frames when playing games at 4k.

Also, to really get 4k, you need a 4k TV (obviously lol)

And not many people have 4k TVs. 1080P is still a standard and will be for a while until years later when 4K gets cheaper or 8k comes out so 4K can become the normal Standard.


----------



## Yethal

The push for 4K seems kinda ludicrous to me. We're packing 4x the pixel count into the same size panels so the overall pixel density increases four times. The problem here is that You can't possibly distinguish between single pixels on a 4K screen that doesn't have an over 9000 diagonal.
 I have 3 1080p screens in front of me.My phone has a 5" screen. No matter how much I look at it I only get a headache when trying to see the pixels.
 The second one is my auxillary monitor with 24" screen. If i look really closely (like 10 cm from the monitor) I can see the pixels. However I'm not going to ever look at the monitor from this close.
 The third one is my 40" TV which also doubles as my main PC monitor. As I type this I'm sitting about 50 cm from the screens and I can faintly see the pixels. If I move my head closer to the screen, the single pixels can be easily observed. But I'm only sitting this close to the TV when I'm working. For movies/games I sit at the other end of the room where the low pixel density does not bother me at all. Maybe I'm half-blind but seriously, the only people that care about 4k are the same kind of people that masturbate to Crysis 3 screenshots.
  
 And as it turns out over 95% of Steam don't give a schiit about 4K either, if You look at the Steam statistics (available here) 95% of the gamers play at a resolution 1920x1080 or lower.
  
 As for the performance on consoles, the game I'm currently working on can be forced via debug to run at 4K (internally) on regular PS4 and it runs at about 15 fps. Granted, it is not the most gorgeous looking game on the market but I think that with enough machine-language optimisation 4K will be achievable on consoles, of only on medium-high settings.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't need the best visuals to enjoy my games. Same as not needing the best sound. It all depends how spoiled your eyes and ears are, I guess.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah... I stuck with DVDs for a long time vs Blu-rays, and basically skipped Blu-Ray for HD movie downloads once I got an HD tv. One thing I definitely noticed... Watching a DVD on a CRT or SD display definitely looked better than DVD upscaled on a 1080p display. I find the same feeling with 1080 content on a 4K display, it doesn't look as good on a screen that isn't using the native resolution of the media.

I'd first like games to run smoothly on 1080p displays.


----------



## Drizz1e

I'd much rather have games running at 1080p, 60fps on consoles than even think about 4K.


----------



## conquerator2

The Neo makes more sense and it should be releasing this Fall. That thing will be able to playback media at 4K and offer a bit better 1080p experience what will probably retail for 299$.
 The Scorpio will release a year later, finding itself competing with 1080p devices, while striving for 4K. And we don't know how much further technology be at that point, nor do we know how much it'll cost. If it were releasing this Fall as well, then that would be interesting.
 Meanwhile, I am perfectly happy with 1080p, gaming on a monitor and not being able to tell pixels apart.
 But if people want a device like Scorpio, more power to MS


----------



## rudyae86

I know MLE will argue against you all with 4K TVs and stuff lol

But here is the thing.

The reason 4K exist now is because it helps mostly with the pixel density in screens larger than 32 inches.

I have a 27 inch 1080 monitor and love it but I can tell a difference between a 24inch 1080 monitor.

The difference to me is the sharpness of an image and blurriness.

Im on my phone right now but to keep it short, going 4K reduces that bluriness and increases that sharpness compared to settings like AA, MSAA, SMAA, FXAA, etc which those techniques are said to be taxing on resources and soetimes reduce IQ on games.

Thats what I have read so far. 

Im probably one of the few people who can notice differences on little things like that, even ghosting on monitors. 144hz is noticeable by me and like it so much.

I guess it really comes down to peoples vision and preference as well.

My next monitor will be a 1440p I think but only if the price on them go down and if they ever release a VA panel since I like my blacks to be blacks lol

But for some reason 2k wasnt as popular as 1080p even though there is a noticeable difference in 27 inch screens or monitors. So Im guessing that for now Ill be sticking with 1080p a while longer until GPUs are powerful enough to do 120hz at 4k.


----------



## Yethal

I'm not saying it's not noticeable, however it gets less and less noticeable the farther away from the screen You're sitting. For an average console game who plays video games from the couch, difference between 1080p and 4K is negligible.


----------



## octiceps

IMO at normal TV viewing distance native 4K is less beneficial than say 1080p@120Hz with hardware antialiasing (the notion that 4K doesn't need AA is a myth). But good luck convincing your average consumer who just gets starry-eyed at big numbers and buzz words like 4K and "fully uncompressed pixels" (the people making a hullabaloo about this didn't get he was referring to HDR). 

I've no doubt Scorpio will be able to run games at native 4K at the same IQ settings and FPS as XB1 at 900p/1080p considering it has 4.6x the GPU throughput. But the question is what happens to 1080p TV owners. Hopefully devs at least have the common sense to downsample from 4K so the extra GPU horsepower is being put toward better AA instead of going to waste.


----------



## pervysage

burritoboy9984 said:


> What amp are you using pervy?




Feeding into the amp on my Audio-gd Master 11.


----------



## st0neh

drizz1e said:


> I'd much rather have games running at 1080p, 60fps on consoles than even think about 4K.


 
  
 So much this.
  
 1080/60 with better quality graphics all round would be a much better experience than the 2160/30 at low settings we're going to end up with.


----------



## Yethal

Well, going from 1080p to 4K is a linear transition with no pixel interpolation so instead of native 4K we could use upscaling with a sharpening filter and be done with it.


----------



## DarkSilV

I am not an expert here but I see a lot of misinformed  comments here
  
 most of the time, a consoles with 6 Teraflops will achieve a better result than a PC with 6 Teraflops ,due to optimizations and software.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I preferer 1080p 60 fps. With really good textures and light than 4k.
Console are more optimized bunot enought for 4k 60 with good quality. 
Hope the ps neo is a true 1080 60 fps machine. 

So the turtle beach tac crap right?


----------



## Yethal

darksilv said:


> I am not an expert here but I see a lot of misinformed  comments here
> 
> most of the time, a consoles with 6 Teraflops will achieve a better result than a PC with 6 Teraflops ,due to optimizations and software.


 

 I can agree on the optimizations but we are far beyond times when consoles had assembly-level optimization. PS4 uses a FreeBSD-derivative operating system and runs the games in so-called jail (which is basically a system-level virtualization). Xbox runs three operating systems at once. A Hyper-V based hypervisor, and two Windows instances as virtual machines. One runs the games while another one runs the apps. Consoles still have overhead associated with them, just not as big as PC.
 Last console that could achieve 100% performance on a given hardware was the PS2. Technically speaking, the games were the operating system of the console, aside from the game code itself, they contained the drivers for the hardware (such as the A/V controller). Oh, those were the times!


----------



## DarkSilV

> _ https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/436012673243693056
> 
> "For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part."
> 
> _


  


> _ https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176
> 
> "Consoles run 2x or so better than equal PC hardware, but it isn’t just API in the way, focus a single spec also matters."
> 
> _


  I did not see Carmack quotes before and I agree with him , just look at some of the console exclusives,


----------



## conquerator2

Well, you're optimizing on a single hardware (2 with multiplatform), so beside less headroom, you also just optimize.optimize.optimize.
With 3-4 consoles, we'll see how devs tackle it.


----------



## DarkSilV

conquerator2 said:


> With 3-4 consoles, we'll see how devs tackle it.


 
 this definitely something I did not think about


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Well, you're optimizing on a single hardware (2 with multiplatform), so beside less headroom, you also just optimize.optimize.optimize.
> With 3-4 consoles, we'll see how devs tackle it.


 

 The same way they currently do it on mobile games. Different sets of assets and code for different SKU.


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> The same way they currently do it on mobile games. Different sets of assets and code for different SKU.




Which will take more time I assume and will leave less time to optimize for lesser hardware.
It took years for the PS3 to reach multiplatform parity because it was more complex and "weaker" when approached conveniently (GPU demanding tasks left on the GPU instead of off-loading on the special CPU in this case) or Xbox One (though the ESRAM is a different scenario intirely, but the weaker GPU applies).
So let's hope the standard PS4 (and X One) don't get secondary treatment here


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> Which will take more time I assume and will leave less time to optimize for lesser hardware.
> It took years for the PS3 to reach multiplatform parity because it was more complex and "weaker" when approached conveniently (GPU demanding tasks left on the GPU instead of off-loading on the special CPU in this case) or Xbox One (though the ESRAM is a different scenario intirely, but the weaker GPU applies).
> So let's hope the standard PS4 (and X One) don't get secondary treatment here


 

 They won't get secondary treatment as long as the original SKU outnumber the improved ones. No matter how hard MS and Sony will try to push customers to upgrade it will take years for the newer models to be adopted by a significant percentage of customers.
  
 As for the memory management on the X1, it has an advantage over PS3 in that it still uses DirectX and virtual memory so most of the code can be copy-pasted from PC. PS4 uses physical memory addressing for larger portion of the RAM and only allows developers to use virtual memory for a 2GB (iirc) chunk. The physical memory management code needs to be written from scratch, it can't be ported from PC.


----------



## Evshrug

Not being a software/computer engineer (and furthermore being someone who prefers the "it just works" typical experience of a console vs system maintenance and updating of a PC), my understanding is that, today, 4K gaming on a PC with high or highest settings requires flagship graphics cards, and adding AA and/or higher frame rates is going to require SLI/Crossfire of those cards... About a $1000 invested in graphics alone before even addressing the rest of the computer. And then, there's the stability/smoothness sacrifice of using dual graphics cards.

Even with "console optimization" (not what it used to be, as Yethal pointed out) and three years of SKU fragmentation to bring out newer consoles than the current PS4/XBO (Xbox Several?), we're not going to get high quality, high framerate, 4K native gaming from $300-$400 consoles. What we will get is decent quality, 30-60 FPS gameplay that is processed at "full HD" 1080p or 1440p, and then upscaled to 4K. Kind of like how even now some current gen titles are upscaled to 1080p.

If we have further material to talk about on this subject, may I suggest splitting it off to its own thread, or possibly seeking the enthusiasts or engineers at Tom's Hardware or one of the many console forums?


----------



## Yethal

Let's not split the thread, this convo is a nice departure from the usual "I play csgo, what's the best headphones?"


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Let's not split the thread, this convo is a nice departure from the usual "I play csgo, what's the best headphones?"


 
 lmao right on point


----------



## henhowc

henhowc said:


> any forum impressions on these? lucidsound ls30
> 
> http://games.highdefdigest.com/30901/lucidsound_ls30_wireless_stereo_gaming_headset_xbox_one_ps4.html


 
 bumping my own post since these have been out awhile. anyone try them? they also announced the ls20 and ls40 at pre-e3. the latter being the flagship offering dts: headphone x. i recall another company advertising this in their recent headset...turtle beach i think? does it even make a difference? they are also claiming uncompressed audio...so thats uh good right?
  
 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lucidsound-announces-the-ls40-and-ls20-universal-gaming-headsets-300282564.html
  
 my main draw to these is i like the implementation of the separate chat and game volume controls versus the balance that most current headsets use. also it actually looks kind of like a normal headphone if you remove the boom...something that can't be said about most other gaming headsets.


----------



## Evshrug

^I haven't actually heard of the company yet.

I do know that DTS: HX has it's advantages: mainly, it processes the sound so that regular stereo headphones gain a surround effect with distinct directions for front right, front left, rear right and left, and height (above) channels for each of those directions. The sound is still a bit compressed I think, but not in a way you hear it much (the surround is worth it).

That particular headphone cannot rest on the laurels of DTS though... It still has to be comfortable, articulate, and fun. Again, I've never heard of it before, so I don't know!

Edit: the link you posted is a press release from LucidSound, and they state the headphones ought to release before Holidays 2016... I doubt any have had a chance to hear them. Unless someone's gone to E3? The press release also says they used to work with/for Tritton (MadCatz).

Agree they don't look half bad:


----------



## henhowc

evshrug said:


> ^I haven't actually heard of the company yet.
> 
> I do know that DTS: HX has it's advantages: mainly, it processes the sound so that regular stereo headphones gain a surround effect with distinct directions for front right, front left, rear right and left, and height (above) channels for each of those directions. The sound is still a bit compressed I think, but not in a way you hear it much (the surround is worth it).
> 
> ...


 
  
 they have a stereo version out right now the ls-30. it looks like its basically the same headset but without the DTS and some other phone related features. website has links to some reviews http://www.lucidsound.com/headsets/ls-30.html. prefer to hear some user reviews though.


----------



## o0Julia0o

axelcloris said:


> Here's an old photo of how I mounted my ModMic to the Q701. I also braided the stock cable to make it shorter and when braiding I also braided in the ModMic cable so that they were always together. Worked like a champ and honestly I kinda miss the old girl.


 
  
 That´s my try with the AKG 701:

 If i put it on the outer "ring" i can´t move it up, i don´t wan´t to use it(eating). I cleaned the surface. I pressed it down very strong -with micro clipped on, beacuse otherwise it hurts. I waitet for a minute & it stays on the AKG701. But after one night, it falls off. On the next morning the same thing - the modmic layed on the ground. And i don´t have layed the AKG on the modmic nor the cable pulled it. Andy ideas how to fix it on the AKG701?
  
 thank you


----------



## Yethal

o0julia0o said:


> That´s my try with the AKG 701:
> 
> If i put it on the outer "ring" i can´t move it up, i don´t wan´t to use it(eating). I cleaned the surface. I pressed it down very strong -with micro clipped on, beacuse otherwise it hurts. I waitet for a minute & it stays on the AKG701. But after one night, it falls off. On the next morning the same thing - the modmic layed on the ground. And i don´t have layed the AKG on the modmic nor the cable pulled it. Andy ideas how to fix it on the AKG701?
> 
> thank you


 

 Modmic does not stick very well to grill surfaces. Try attaching it lower (on the outer ring of the cup).


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Modmic does not stick very well to grill surfaces. Try attaching it lower (on the outer ring of the cup).



Right Julia, and if you want to move the mic out of the way while eating (or something), try sticking it a bit forward on the ring like AxelCoris did so the mic boom has room to flip up without the center capsule getting in the way, or simply detach the magnets and let the mic hang.


----------



## o0Julia0o

i give it a try. But the outer ring is a grill surface, too:


----------



## AxelCloris

You can see from the photo that the outer ring has a more shallow curve compared to the silver, inner ring. That gives you more contact with the pad and should make it more likely to stay. I never had an issue with it dropping off from the Q701 and the outer ring should be the same shape.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

I agree on attaching it to the outer ring. Also consider putting it on the ear opposite the headphone cable entry. Although you lose the ability to easily wrap the Modmic cable and the headphone cable together, for me it balanced out the weight nicely and allowed more room to maneuver the Modmic. Below shows how I placed mine on the K7XX and it never fell off:


----------



## o0Julia0o

hm.. o.k., now it is put on the cable-side. Until yet - staying


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've said for so many years now, 1440p was the sweet spot. 4k only makes a difference because TV manufacturers completely skipped 1440p. The difference between 1440p and 4k is next to none under normal viewing distances of TVs, and very hard to appreciate even with monitors.

Not only is 4K overkill, it makes it harder for GPUs. GPUs for console gaming will need another few years for it to be viable, if you want games to hit 4K at 60fps reliably.

The Scorpio is NOT prepared for 4K/60fps gaming, ESPECIALLY in 1.5 years time, when games will be even more taxing.

The power of the Scorpio would be PERFECT for 1440p/60+fps.

So essentially with the Scorpio, you can expect it to be a 4k/30fps gaming device, while the original XB1 will be a 720/1080p/30fps device. No real gains in visual fidelity outside of the resolution bump and some other things.

Now, the Neo actually seems more appealing because Sony is aiming to make it a 1080p/60fps machine, while the Scorpio will likely forego fps for more pixels which is the wrong way to go. UNLESS Microsoft gives gamers the option of 1080p/60fps or 4k/30fps, which would be great. But I don't see them doing that.

Considering all the good Xbox exclusives are coming to PC, I'd use that Scorpio money for a good PC instead that WILL hit 4K/60fps reliably next year. Right now, the 1080 seems to be hiotting around 50/60fp at 4K. So next year we should see that being stable at 60fps for awhile. Maybe the 1080ti or whatever is coming.


But 4K TVs are nice in that they upscale 1080p wonderfully. 1080p actually looks BETTER on 4K Tvs, due to no longer being able to see the pixel grid unless you're stupid close.

So at the moment, I'd be ok with a 1080p experience on a 4K tv. I had to return mine though due to a couple of reasons. Right now, I'm just on my laptop.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> If we have further material to talk about on this subject, may I suggest splitting it off to its own thread, or possibly seeking the enthusiasts or engineers at Tom's Hardware or one of the many console forums?


 
  
 Really? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
  


yethal said:


> Let's not split the thread, this convo is a nice departure from the usual "I play csgo, what's the best headphones?"


 
  




  


mad lust envy said:


> I've said for so many years now, 1440p was the sweet spot. 4k only makes a difference because TV manufacturers completely skipped 1440p. The difference between 1440p and 4k is next to none under normal viewing distances of TVs, and very hard to appreciate even with monitors.
> 
> Not only is 4K overkill, it makes it harder for GPUs. GPUs for console gaming will need another few years for it to be viable, if you want games to hit 4K at 60fps reliably.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Watch it, Mad. Don't want to upset those lobbying to be mods, so please stay on topic in your own damn thread  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.
  
 BTW, I'm waiting on my E-MU Walnut's cable mod to be finished. Soon as they return I'll start a PM if you guys are still down, @Evshrug and @lenroot77


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Watch it, Mad. Don't want to upset those lobbying to be mods, so please stay on topic in your own damn thread   .
> 
> BTW, I'm waiting on my E-MU Walnut's cable mod to be finished. Soon as they return I'll start a PM if you guys are still down, @Evshrug
> and @lenroot77



Can't Mad become his own mod? Like Jason Stoddard is in the Schiit Happened thread.


----------



## Kuss

Hi my DT990 pro died on me the other day so i am looking to get a new set of headphones, I been reading up most the day about soundstage and its best for FPS gaming?. So i been looking around a lot of forums and AD900X/akg k702 and another pair but i cant remember them have been mentioned a lot so i need help on picking a pair plz.
  
 price ranger max £130
 i have a Strix raid pro sound card
 any info will be great TY


----------



## tempor

Just 'upgraded' to the Sennheiser Game Zeros (50 ohm version) from a pair of HD 201s. I was perfectly happy with the sound of the 201s, and was very disappointed to find the game zero's sounding extremely flat and tinny, using the exact same setup as the 201s... is this just how they sound and I made a terrible mistake?


----------



## Yethal

tempor said:


> Just 'upgraded' to the Sennheiser Game Zeros (50 ohm version) from a pair of HD 201s. I was perfectly happy with the sound of the 201s, and was very disappointed to find the game zero's sounding extremely flat and tinny, using the exact same setup as the 201s... is this just how they sound and I made a terrible mistake?



They might simply be underpowered. Try using an amp.


----------



## Evshrug

I have heard the cheap and eager to please Sennheiser HD201, good can for the low low price, but I haven't heard the Game Zero. Sennheiser headphones often have different impedances at different frequencies, which means that it's quite possible that the bass needs a beefier amp than the midrange. The difference an amp made with several headphones has been the difference between liking said headphone or not, for me.


----------



## Sam21

tempor said:


> Just 'upgraded' to the Sennheiser Game Zeros (50 ohm version) from a pair of HD 201s. I was perfectly happy with the sound of the 201s, and was very disappointed to find the game zero's sounding extremely flat and tinny, using the exact same setup as the 201s... is this just how they sound and I made a terrible mistake?


 
 let it burn in and use a more powerful amp...


----------



## sharpz44

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help, I have an Astro mixamp gen2 (grey one) and use these with audio technical ath-pg1 on ps4 would adding a schiit amp improve the sound in any way or is the mixamp on its own this best I could get out of this set up, thanks in advance


----------



## Change is Good

Please excuse me while I rant for a sec. So I played Battlefront today and noticed everyone on both teams were positive in ratio after the match was over. I thought it was a glitch, but apparently all assists above 25% are now counting as kills after today's patch. This is now the world we live in, one where they hand out participation trophies in competitive play, now merging into video games. Gtfoh :/


----------



## headphonesonly

sharpz44 said:


> Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help, I have an Astro mixamp gen2 (grey one) and use these with audio technical ath-pg1 on ps4 would adding a schiit amp improve the sound in any way or is the mixamp on its own this best I could get out of this set up, thanks in advance


 Adding an amp to any audio source will only make it louder not better.


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Please excuse me while I rant for a sec. So I played Battlefront today and noticed everyone on both teams were positive in ratio after the match was over. I thought it was a glitch, but apparently all assists above 25% are now counting as kills after today's patch. This is now the world we live in, one where they hand out participation trophies in competitive play, now merging into video games. Gtfoh :/




Ugh. I can understand CoD doing soething similar for killstreaks (where 2 assists = 1 kill towards killstreaks or whatever), but to count assists as kills in scoreboards is just ridiculous.

As for audio, my HE-400 is lucky if I put it on once a month,basically. I'm too lazy to wear headphones, especially since I haven't been gaming much lately. That might change next week when Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness is out.

Nothing's changed for my Koss clip ons though. I wear those religiously every day at work.

I should consider selling my Creative X7, and just buying a wireless headset again. Really. Convenience over every thing, now.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Please excuse me while I rant for a sec. So I played Battlefront today and noticed everyone on both teams were positive in ratio after the match was over. I thought it was a glitch, but apparently all assists above 25% are now counting as kills after today's patch. This is now the world we live in, one where they hand out participation trophies in competitive play, now merging into video games. Gtfoh :/


 
 Yup, thats how it seems to be now.
  
 The way BF4 implements Kill Assists is better but still....I kind of dont like either.

 I like old school FPS whether you kill or be killed...no such thing as getting assists points or whatever.


----------



## headphonesonly

mad lust envy said:


> Ugh. I can understand CoD doing soething similar for killstreaks (where 2 assists = 1 kill towards killstreaks or whatever), but to count assists as kills in scoreboards is just ridiculous.
> 
> As for audio, my HE-400 is lucky if I put it on once a month,basically. I'm too lazy to wear headphones, especially since I haven't been gaming much lately. That might change next week when Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness is out.
> 
> ...


Get the Lucidsound ls30.


----------



## Yethal

sharpz44 said:


> Hi, I was wondering if I could get some help, I have an Astro mixamp gen2 (grey one) and use these with audio technical ath-pg1 on ps4 would adding a schiit amp improve the sound in any way or is the mixamp on its own this best I could get out of this set up, thanks in advance


 

 Doubt it, gaming headsets were designed to be powered off devices such as the mixamp (or an onboard soundcard).
  


change is good said:


> Please excuse me while I rant for a sec. So I played Battlefront today and noticed everyone on both teams were positive in ratio after the match was over. I thought it was a glitch, but apparently all assists above 25% are now counting as kills after today's patch. This is now the world we live in, one where they hand out participation trophies in competitive play, now merging into video games. Gtfoh :/


 
 So, if I only need to get 26% assist is it possible for four guys to get a kill off a single victim? Ayn Rand is turning over in her objectivist grave.
  
  


headphonesonly said:


> Adding an amp to any audio source will only make it louder not better.


 

 That's not entirely true. Adding an amp improves the overall sound in additiona to providing the volume.
  


mad lust envy said:


> I should consider selling my Creative X7, and just buying a wireless headset again. Really. Convenience over every thing, now.


 
 Firmware update for the X7 came out two days ago (or yesterday depending on the timezone). You can now use Vali with headphone surround!


----------



## headphonesonly

yethal said:


> That's not entirely true. Adding an amp improves the overall sound in additiona to providing the volume.


 Does that only apply to high impedance headphones?


----------



## ProtegeManiac

Quote:


headphonesonly said:


> Adding an amp to any audio source will only make it louder not better.
 
 
As you increase the output level distortion increases. An external amplifier (provided it isn't total crap) will be able to provide more power at lower distortion levels than source units with headphone outputs. if it "only" makes it louder, that's because the earphone or headphone being used has a high enough sensitivity+efficiency that the source can get it up to a loud enough level with barely any audible distortion. Basically, the question is whether the earphone or headphone in use needs more power.
 
In other cases it might not be power that is necessary but a lower output impedance, so it's not surprising when a 12ohm IEM sounds different driven directly by a smartphone vs an amplifier.


----------



## sharpz44

I`ll stick with just the mixamp then, thanks for your help


----------



## Yethal

headphonesonly said:


> Does that only apply to high impedance headphones?


 

 Or to insensitive headphones. Basically to all headphones that need more juice than the original source can provide.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

When it comes to non competitive games what sound signature does everyone here look for on there headphones?


----------



## rudyae86

mrkingdomhearts said:


> When it comes to non competitive games what sound signature does everyone here look for on there headphones?



Warm, lushy with a hint of brightness.

For me usually...


----------



## henhowc

i kind of like the battlefront changes...lol


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> When it comes to non competitive games what sound signature does everyone here look for on there headphones?


The Philips x2 or the akg k712 have the sound signature I prefer for non fps games. A sorta warmish sound that doesn't give up clarity.


----------



## conquerator2

Also the MA900 to make that three 
K7XX is the budget version of the K712 / 702 Anv


----------



## Change is Good

I lol'd a couple times during this match ;p


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> I lol'd a couple times during this match ;p




  
 Since we're showing our game footage...


----------



## Change is Good

Lol I thought you'd never go down! Was this recent or did you have it saved? Mine was from last night as a spur of the moment thing. Didn't bother editing, though. Wish I did because I was trolling that dude in the mobile artillery vehicle for a good while lol.

Keep posting vids guys. I like it


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Lol I thought you'd never go down! Was this recent or did you have it saved? Mine was from last night as a spur of the moment thing. Didn't bother editing, though. Wish I did because I was trolling that dude in the mobile artillery vehicle for a good while lol.
> 
> Keep posting vids guys. I like it


 
  
 That was yesterday. The only reason I survived was a good tank and awesome heals. Junkrat can be very squishy when he's solo. It's funny how I hopped on to play a quick game while the wife was busy for a few minutes and had an amazing match like that.
  
 I'll have to watch your video on my lunch break, no time this morning after storms rolled through town.


----------



## martin vegas

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







 I was just glad to finish this game in the hot weather.it's the last dark souls 3 boss if you haven't played don't watch!


----------



## Change is Good

Martin, was that your first play through? You are bold to fight that man by yourself haha


----------



## henhowc

Picked up the Lucidsound LS-30 at Best Buy.
  
 I wish they weren't so bass heavy in the default mode. It made it harder to pick out positional queues when playing online shooters as it seemed to affect the clarity of other sounds at times. The default mode sounds like it already has enough bass to be the bass boost mode. Guess they opted to go the Astro A50 route and/or Beats in both looks and sound signature.
  
 The cup controls are my favorite thing about this headset. They've simplified the controls greatly and the separate chat/game volume controls are a godsend. Not sure if its a PS4 thing (never seemed to have the same chat volume issues on Xbox 360) but half the battle when partying up is getting the right balance between game and chat volume.
  
 They are a really pretty headset compared to the garbage looking stuff you normally associate with gaming headsets. They were also a nice snug fit and pretty comfortable. I have issues with some headphones causing jaw soreness after long hours of use but so far so good with these. 
  
 Undecided if I'm going to keep them but its a good first effort in terms of looks and functionality. Crossing my fingers that the LS-40 tones that bass down a bit and to see how these sound with DTS: Headphone X compared to DH.


----------



## headphonesonly

henhowc said:


> Picked up the Lucidsound LS-30 at Best Buy.
> 
> I wish they weren't so bass heavy in the default mode. It made it harder to pick out positional queues when playing online shooters as it seemed to affect the clarity of other sounds at times. The default mode sounds like it already has enough bass to be the bass boost mode. Guess they opted to go the Astro A50 route and/or Beats in both looks and sound signature.
> 
> ...


Doubt the ls-40 will have less bass. It looks like it will just be the ls-30 with DTS headphone x support. 


I found the treble boost to add a bit more clarity and help with soundwhoring a bit, but it's only a small improvement. This headphone is what I go to whenever I'm chillin on the couch playing a single-player game.


----------



## henhowc

headphonesonly said:


> Doubt the ls-40 will have less bass. It looks like it will just be the ls-30 with DTS headphone x support.
> 
> 
> I found the treble boost to add a bit more clarity and help with soundwhoring a bit, but it's only a small improvement. This headphone is what I go to whenever I'm chillin on the couch playing a single-player game.




By chance have you had the used the sony golds before? If so how would you compare the sound and stereo performance between that and the ls-30?


----------



## headphonesonly

henhowc said:


> By chance have you had the used the sony golds before? If so how would you compare the sound and stereo performance between that and the ls-30?


Sony golds do have way less bass in comparison to the ls-30. I would describe the bass as being neutral so you may really like the sound signature of the golds.


In stereo mode the headphone sounds great but the soundstage is a bit lacking and being able to pinpoint the enemy was a bit hard to do with the golds. For me to be able to get good spacial awareness i had to turn on VSS mode. But now the headphone sounds hollow. It's sort of a trade off. 


With the ls30 I was able to here around me but the gold in surround mode made it a bit more accurate. Another thing the golds have is the Headset companion app which allows you to create custom EQs which is a nice feature.


----------



## henhowc

headphonesonly said:


> Sony golds do have way less bass in comparison to the ls-30. I would describe the bass as being neutral so you may really like the sound signature of the golds.
> 
> 
> In stereo mode the headphone sounds great but the soundstage is a bit lacking and being able to pinpoint the enemy was a bit hard to do with the golds. For me to be able to get good spacial awareness i had to turn on VSS mode. But now the headphone sounds hollow. It's sort of a trade off.
> ...




Thanks. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what tradeoffs matter the most. I want to go wireless because I'm kind of over the whole hassle of wired + mixamp when playing in the living room. I thought it'd be simple but its tough letting go lol


----------



## headphonesonly

henhowc said:


> Thanks. I guess I'm going to have to figure out what tradeoffs matter the most. I want to go wireless because I'm kind of over the whole hassle of wired + mixamp when playing in the living room. I thought it'd be simple but its tough letting go lol


The golds are still a good option. They don't sound absolutely terrible in surround mode. I actually got used to the sound and it didn't bother me at all. If you had $300 I would get the steelseries h wireless. Linus had reviewed this headset on YouTube so go check that out when you have the chance.


----------



## Mackem

Thinking of picking up a pair of Custom One Pro Plus to pair with my BoomPro. Anyone else use this combo?
  
 I'm just looking for some comfortable headphones that will work with the BoomPro and will be good for dance/pop music.


----------



## arvis00

I am looking for an amp for PS4 and after extensive research I have narrowed down to ifi micro iCan and creative x7. I understand that iCan is in different league from x7 in the amp section but it does not have SBX which I heard is great for gaming. However, iCan has great bass boost feature and 3D switch which widens soundstage quite a bit. X7 on the other hand does not have bass boost. Is x7's VSS better than having bass boost, 3D switch and better amp (i am only interested in immersive, fun and non-competitive gaming)? I will only use headphones and not interested in other outputs offered in x7. Maybe it is worth combining them both or that would be an overkill?
I can combine iCan with dss2 or mixamp and that would be cheaper but maybe it would sacrifice SQ too much (compared with combining with x7)?


----------



## Yethal

arvis00 said:


> I am looking for an amp for PS4 and after extensive research I have narrowed down to ifi micro iCan and creative x7. I understand that iCan is in different league from x7 in the amp section but it does not have SBX which I heard is great for gaming. However, iCan has great bass boost feature and 3D switch which widens soundstage quite a bit. X7 on the other hand does not have bass boost. Is x7's VSS better than having bass boost, 3D switch and better amp (i am only interested in immersive, fun and non-competitive gaming)? I will only use headphones and not interested in other outputs offered in x7. Maybe it is worth combining them both or that would be an overkill?
> I can combine iCan with dss2 or mixamp and that would be cheaper but maybe it would sacrifice SQ too much (compared with combining with x7)?



X7 has actual virtual surround instead of artificial widening of the soundstage, and it does actually have a bass boost. Moreover, SBX encoded signal can be output via either toslink or rca to another device.


----------



## conquerator2

Gaming wise and everything else for that matter, real SBX surround > iCAN.
iCAN is a great amp though...


----------



## wak3

I got my 770s because I needed isolation and a wide soundstage (CSGO footsteps). The bass that they offer just makes them perfect match for myself.


----------



## Monty1089

Hi everyone,

 Just need some advice regarding buying an Astro Mixamp for my PS4.

 I currently have an Audio Technica AD700 headphone and Modmic 4.0. They are plugged into a Turtle Beach DSS. It's good as i found a way to get the mic to work with a USB soundcard but i can't control voice chat so i want to upgrade to something else.

 Is the 2011 mixamp still the preferred mixamp? I read on this thread that pretty much every mixamp after 2013 has had hissing problems and not as good audio as pre-2013? I have an ebay voucher to spend my money on so would prefer to buy the best mixamp with less issues. 

 Here is the 2013 version:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-With-All-Cables-for-Ps3-Ps4-Xbox-Window-and-Mac-/262456743895?hash=item3d1ba417d7:g:VTkAAOSwDuJWzRgn

 Here is the 2011 version:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Original-Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-Only-without-cables-and-headset-/281815550100?hash=item419d840894:g:fngAAOSwjVVViMNZ


 Please recommend to me which one i should buy.

 Thanks.


----------



## Change is Good

You can adjust voice chat in PS4 settings. No need to sidegrade from the DSS to mixamp.


----------



## Monty1089

change is good said:


> You can adjust voice chat in PS4 settings. No need to sidegrade from the DSS to mixamp.


 

 Thanks. Yes i know that but i would prefer a knob to adjust the mic settings since it will be easier.

 Also adjusting chat settings via the menu has got me killed many times in COD Black Ops 3 and also Battlefield 4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The new Mixamp seems to have fixed everything from the other Mixamps. I only recomend the 2011 variants because they go for very cheap on Fleabay.


----------



## jincuteguy

mad lust envy said:


> Ugh. I can understand CoD doing soething similar for killstreaks (where 2 assists = 1 kill towards killstreaks or whatever), but to count assists as kills in scoreboards is just ridiculous.
> 
> As for audio, my HE-400 is lucky if I put it on once a month,basically. I'm too lazy to wear headphones, especially since I haven't been gaming much lately. That might change next week when Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness is out.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Is Star Ocean for PC or only Console?


----------



## headphonesonly

I thought made a good play so I decided to share it.
https://youtu.be/SYwuXa88uoU


----------



## Change is Good

headphonesonly said:


> I thought made a good play so I decided to share it.
> https://youtu.be/SYwuXa88uoU




Lol good one


----------



## Monty1089

mad lust envy said:


> The new Mixamp seems to have fixed everything from the other Mixamps. I only recomend the 2011 variants because they go for very cheap on Fleabay.


 

 Thanks Mad Lust Envy for replying.

 I have seen the 2011 version very cheap on ebay so that is on my radar.

 Can you link the newer Mixamp version you are talking about?

 Is it this one:

 http://www.astrogaming.com/mixamp%E2%84%A2-pro-tr/MixAmp-TR.html#start=1

 Or this one:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-With-All-Cables-for-Ps3-Ps4-Xbox-Window-and-Mac-/142024696561?hash=item211154e2f1:g:SXoAAOSw-zxWoqmH


----------



## sharpz44

mad lust envy said:


> The new Mixamp seems to have fixed everything from the other Mixamps. I only recomend the 2011 variants because they go for very cheap on Fleabay.


 
 I think there is issues with the TR, I personally experienced big echo and some kind of reverb when I had them, no matter what eq was used there was a hollow metallic sound, this issue has been expressed in depth in the Astro forums by users, one made this video(best to listen with headset on), I eventually sold mine due to this
  https://youtu.be/LtNF1i2eSwg


----------



## sharpz44

monty1089 said:


> Thanks Mad Lust Envy for replying.
> 
> I have seen the 2011 version very cheap on ebay so that is on my radar.
> 
> ...


 
 Your first link is the newer version, I would consider going on the Astro gaming forums before you decide to purchase and having a read of the user issues, the second link is what I purchased after the TR and seems to be a better sound, in my opinion
 Good Luck


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Is Star Ocean for PC or only Console?




Console for now, they are considering PC.

So the latest game on my mind, that just won't go away is 'Life Is Strange'. That game, to me, is a masterpiece in evoking emotions. If you love a good drama, and something akin to Telltale games, then for the love of games, get that game, so we can talk all about it.


I'm about to hopefully play through Jotun before the arrival of Star Ocean tomorrow.


----------



## Monty1089

sharpz44 said:


> Your first link is the newer version, I would consider going on the Astro gaming forums before you decide to purchase and having a read of the user issues, the second link is what I purchased after the TR and seems to be a better sound, in my opinion
> Good Luck


 


 Thanks. From further research today the general consensus by people is to avoid the TR mixamp and buy the generations before it. I have read some issues about the TR and seen that video you linked.

 So 2011, gen 1 and gen 2 are good. Gen 1 and Gen 2 are pretty much the same in terms of features except better build quality and use of micro usb instead of mini usb. 

 I am leaning towards Gen 1 (used) as it is the cheapest on ebay and buying a 2011 and new Gen 2 is more expensive. 

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Astro-A40-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-With-All-Cables-for-Ps3-Ps4-Xbox-Window-Mac-USED-/262499490692?hash=item3d1e305b84:g:bpIAAOSwEjFXcEz9


----------



## sharpz44

monty1089 said:


> Thanks. From further research today the general consensus by people is to avoid the TR mixamp and buy the generations before it. I have read some issues about the TR and seen that video you linked.
> 
> So 2011, gen 1 and gen 2 are good. Gen 1 and Gen 2 are pretty much the same in terms of features except better build quality and use of micro usb instead of mini usb.
> 
> ...


 

 That is going to be a good decision,basically the pain and hassle I went through with the TR was so annoying, sent it back but think Astro rep had his ears painted on,Eventually sold it on ebay at a loss of £130, I have the steelseries H wireless which never let me down,but I decided to go with the Mixamp pro (grey one with Audio Technica ATH-PG1 and though its probs not as good as some set ups the sound is crisp and clear. Glad you have saved your self some disappointment.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-With-All-Cables-for-Ps3-Ps4-Xbox-Window-and-Mac-/142024696561?hash=item211154e2f1:g:SXoAAOSw-zxWoqmH


----------



## Monty1089

sharpz44 said:


> That is going to be a good decision,basically the pain and hassle I went through with the TR was so annoying, sent it back but think Astro rep had his ears painted on,Eventually sold it on ebay at a loss of £130, I have the steelseries H wireless which never let me down,but I decided to go with the Mixamp pro (grey one with Audio Technica ATH-PG1 and though its probs not as good as some set ups the sound is crisp and clear. Glad you have saved your self some disappointment.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Astro-Gaming-MixAmp-Pro-With-All-Cables-for-Ps3-Ps4-Xbox-Window-and-Mac-/142024696561?hash=item211154e2f1:g:SXoAAOSw-zxWoqmH


 


 Thanks for the link you just provided. That Gen 2 mixamp is pretty cheap actually. I will look into maybe buying that instead.

 Upon further research it seems Astro gaming has done firmware updates to fix most issues (hiss and low mic volume) with the Gen 1 and Gen 2 mixamps. The 2011 mixamp cannot have it's firmware updated from what i have read .. but 2011 mixamp seems to be the least problematic out of all of them.

 I am going to buy the mixamp to use with my Audio Technica AD700 headphones and modmic 4.0 for my PS4 so I want the best mixamp with least issues.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Anyone tried either the smsl m3 or sd793-ii for gaming? 
I don't really care about surround sound (never really benefited me) so I don't care that they don't support it. 
What I'm wondering is how they preform in everything else.


----------



## conquerator2

mad lust envy said:


> Console for now, they are considering PC.
> 
> So the latest game on my mind, that just won't go away is 'Life Is Strange'. That game, to me, is a masterpiece in evoking emotions. If you love a good drama, and something akin to Telltale games, then for the love of games, get that game, so we can talk all about it.
> 
> ...


 
 I loved the game bae 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










 It gave me bursts of emotions


----------



## Yethal

Life is Strange is everything games from TT want to be but aren't.


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Anyone tried either the smsl m3 or sd793-ii for gaming?
> I don't really care about surround sound (never really benefited me) so I don't care that they don't support it.
> What I'm wondering is how they preform in everything else.


Smsl m3 has a better sounding DAC.


----------



## paulkemp

Thanks again for the web's most comprehensive headphone guide! 
  
 You PC guys who use a DAC/AMP combo, what do you do with mic input? Plug the mic directly into the motherboard?


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> Thanks again for the web's most comprehensive headphone guide!
> 
> You PC guys who use a DAC/AMP combo, what do you do with mic input? Plug the mic directly into the motherboard?


 

 I plug it into the X7 mic input. Unless You're a streamer/Youtuber the motherboard input will be good enough.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm about to hopefully play through Jotun before the arrival of Star Ocean tomorrow.




Saw you playing last night. I was hoping you were streaming on Twitch or YouTube.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was trying to stream my Steam stuff, but My laptop is too old for Shadowplay. :'(

I really wanted to show people how to backdash cancel on Bloodstained. I haven't seen ANYONE doing it online. Like, properly utilizing how to cancel attacks into others. I'm probably too good at Metroidvanias, lol.

If you meant Star Ocean on PS4, yeah, I don't typically stream. 1, no mic, 2, that's not a game fun for streaming purposes. Lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Found OBS.

Uploaded that advanced strat that no one has bothered to show people. 

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0qkDohp7J0][/VIDEO]


----------



## Change is Good

I actually prefer streams with no mic. I come to watch gameplay, not listen to people stroke their streamer egos constantly asking for likes and follows.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> I plug it into the X7 mic input. Unless You're a streamer/Youtuber the motherboard input will be good enough.


 
  
 Ok thanks, I do actually have a 2011 Astro MixAmp lying around, but not sure how much better the mic input is on that contra the onboard motherboard input. NOt sure much, if any, quality enhancments it adds besides the Dolby Surround.


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> Ok thanks, I do actually have a 2011 Astro MixAmp lying around, but not sure how much better the mic input is on that contra the onboard motherboard input. NOt sure much, if any, quality enhancments it adds besides the Dolby Surround.


 

 Plug the microphone into both, listen to Your voice and choose whichever sounds better to You.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> Plug the microphone into both, listen to Your voice and choose whichever sounds better to You.


 
 Sometimes its the most obvois that are the best tips. Thanks


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> I was trying to stream my Steam stuff, but My laptop is too old for Shadowplay. :'(




Don't you have an M17x R4 w/680M? That supports Shadowplay just fine.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Found OBS.
> 
> Uploaded that advanced strat that no one has bothered to show people.
> 
> [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0qkDohp7J0][/VIDEO]




Heeey awesome, I was thinking about recommending OBS to you!

That was a pretty advanced/tryhard tactic, but I will say some games just seem to need that level of eeking out the last advantage.

A friend just had a small party where we finished "Until Dawn" in two nights. Nobody's going to win an award for it, but it was hella interesting and we had a great time calling out "Hide or run?!?" "Do that do that!" "Aaaaah!" "You had better not trick me into killing anyone!!!"

Fun times.


----------



## henhowc

is it normal for some mics to produce a brief slight buzz when sound is picked up and you are adjusting the mic gain settings on the ps4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

octiceps said:


> Don't you have an M17x R4 w/680M? That supports Shadowplay just fine.




If it does, I sure can't get it to work.

Shadowplay options are grey out for me. I could swear Shadowplay started the gen after mine.


----------



## paulkemp

Quick question, when using a console, you set the system audio output to 5.1/7.1, and all games that support it are output in that format. Then you use a MixAmp for example, to mix that signal to Dolby Headphone on yourt stereo headphones. Ok, all easy peasy. 
  
 On a PC on the other hand, all audio settings are controlled within each game. So even though I configure my Windows PC to output 5.1 (DD, DTS etc) those settings are not carried over to the games. Besides this, mostly all games have a "headphone" setting, not telling us wheter it is stereo, or virtual surround. 
  
 Overwatch for example, uses a Dolby Atmos for headphones mix, that works with all stereo headphones. So, what do you PC players do? 
  
You can try the Overwatch Dolby Atmos for headphones mix over at dolby.com.


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> Quick question, when using a console, you set the system audio output to 5.1/7.1, and all games that support it are output in that format. Then you use a MixAmp for example, to mix that signal to Dolby Headphone on yourt stereo headphones. Ok, all easy peasy.
> 
> On a PC on the other hand, all audio settings are controlled within each game. So even though I configure my Windows PC to output 5.1 (DD, DTS etc) those settings are not carried over to the games. Besides this, mostly all games have a "headphone" setting, not telling us wheter it is stereo, or virtual surround.
> 
> ...


 

 What You set in Windows settings are more of a suggestion than a rule for a game to follow (Pirates of the Carribean style). If the game doesn't have an output setting it will default to whatever was set in Windows. If the game does have an output setting two things can happen:

If You're lucky the game will respect Your choice and set the output to whatever You desire
If You're unlucky the game will pretend to respect Your choice but will output whatever format was set in Windows settings
  
 Headphone setting in most games is a poor man's virtual surround with Overwatch being one exception to this rule.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> What You set in Windows settings are more of a suggestion than a rule for a game to follow (Pirates of the Carribean style). If the game doesn't have an output setting it will default to whatever was set in Windows. If the game does have an output setting two things can happen:
> 
> If You're lucky the game will respect Your choice and set the output to whatever You desire
> If You're unlucky the game will pretend to respect Your choice but will output whatever format was set in Windows settings
> ...


 
  
 Lol. OK! Thanks. So are there any rule of thumbs? Set Windows settings to output DD (or whatever surround setting) and dont change anything in game (dont use 'headphone', use speakers)? Do PC games even support doubly digital over caox / optical?


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> If it does, I sure can't get it to work.
> 
> Shadowplay options are grey out for me. I could swear Shadowplay started the gen after mine.


 
  
 Shadowplay started with Kepler which 680M is. It should work unless you're running ridiculously old (as in more than a few years) drivers or versions of GeForce Experience. Have you tried adding -shadowplay to the end of the GFE shortcut target?
  
 I recorded this using Shadowplay right when it was released, so some info is outdated (e.g. large perf drop while recording in SLI was later rectified in drivers) but it shows that it works:


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> Lol. OK! Thanks. So are there any rule of thumbs? Set Windows settings to output DD (or whatever surround setting) and dont change anything in game (dont use 'headphone', use speakers)? Do PC games even support doubly digital over caox / optical?



Set Windows to output surround and set the game to speakers. As for Dolby Digital support, the soundcard needs to support it, not the game


----------



## PurpleAngel

paulkemp said:


> Lol. OK! Thanks. So are there any rule of thumbs? Set Windows settings to output DD (or whatever surround setting) and dont change anything in game (dont use 'headphone', use speakers)? Do PC games even support doubly digital over caox / optical?


 
  
 Sending up to 6-channels (5.1) of digital audio thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) is a feature (encoding/compression) of DDL (Dolby Digital Live) or DTS-Connect.
 DDL & DTS-Connect are features that usually come with a sound card (built in or add-on), not a PC game.
 All the PC game has to do is output the 6-channels of audio.
 So if you set a PC game's audio setting to Speaker 5.1 (6-channels) output, then DDL/DTS-Connect does the rest.
 But you have to have the matching feature at the other end of the optical/coaxial connection (cable), so DDL (Dolby) only works with DDL (Dolby).
 I believe the Astro Mix-amp comes with Dolby (DDL), so the Mix-amp can decode/un-compress the digital audio.


----------



## Evshrug

Right, what PurpleAngel said.

To say it a different way, PCs don't need the compression of Dolby or DTS, they just send native PCM audio for each channel to the sound processor. Whether that processor is internal or external doesn't matter as long as you're not using Optical (USB can carry more information than Optical).

Game consoles are a different beast... They require less configuration and maintenance, but until someone makes an external headphone DSP with HDMI in and HDMI out, then they all rely on Optical and some form of surround compression (Dolby or DTS).


----------



## Sam21

I know it is off topic but I have a tiny non-related question:
  
 Which RAM has the better performance out of these two :
  
 8GB DDR3L 1600MHZ CL9
  
 or
  
 8GB DDR3L 2133MHZ CL11 
  
 ...


----------



## PurpleAngel

sam21 said:


> I know it is off topic but I have a tiny non-related question:
> 
> Which RAM has the better performance out of these two :
> 
> ...


 
  
 If your CPU and motherboard can take advantage of 2133mhz, then go with 2133mhz.


----------



## Sam21

thanks


----------



## Sam21

purpleangel said:


> If your CPU and motherboard can take advantage of 2133mhz, then go with 2133mhz.


 
 I guess I have to go with the 1600MHZ one as my CPU supports maximum of 1600MHZ
  
 http://products.amd.com/en-us/search/APU/AMD-A-Series-Processors/AMD-A4-Series-APU-for-Laptops/A4-6210-with-Radeon%E2%84%A2-R3-Graphics/36
  
  
 correct ?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

headphonesonly said:


> Smsl m3 has a better sounding DAC.


noticeably or just a little bit?


----------



## headphonesonly

mrkingdomhearts said:


> noticeably or just a little bit?


Its noticeably better. Cleaner and no hissing compared to the sd793-ii. Might be the one I had that was having a hissing issue.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Right, what PurpleAngel said.
> 
> To say it a different way, PCs don't need the compression of Dolby or DTS, they just send native PCM audio for each channel to the sound processor. Whether that processor is internal or external doesn't matter as long as you're not using Optical (USB can carry more information than Optical).
> 
> Game consoles are a different beast... They require less configuration and maintenance, but until someone makes an external headphone DSP with HDMI in and HDMI out, then they all rely on Optical and some form of surround compression (Dolby or DTS).


 

 Tritton made one. Can't You or Mad use your contributor status on Head-Fi to score a review unit?


----------



## Monty1089

Ok so based on my questions about the mixamp pro a few pages back i just purchased the 2011 mixamp pro. This one:

 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281815550100?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 I am actually from Australia so with a $15 ebay discount and convert to AUD it was around $82. That is the cheapest 2011 mixamp i could fine anywhere.

 I will post back my experiences in a few weeks when it arrives.


----------



## Change is Good

Hey you guys may want to jump on that eBay sale ($15 off orders of $75 or up). I bought three $25 PSN cards for $60 and to use them on flash sales. Savings on top of savings right? 

Coupon is: CruiseN2Summer


----------



## Yethal

US & Canada only


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Tritton made one. Can't You or Mad use your contributor status on Head-Fi to score a review unit?



Pretty sure I'm a contributor solely because of time or post count 
Or wait... I'm a contributor? I just realized I was thinking Headphoneus Supremus! Cool, I'm labeled a contributor!

Still, I think my DSP review series is more likely to help me "score" (borrow?) a unit for review. I put my second video up on Tuesday, do you guys think I should make a thread about the playlist? If I get that Tritton unit, I'd definitely do a review


----------



## martin vegas

Does anyone know what the sabre hifi sounds like from the Asus Rog Rampage v edition 10 motherboard?


----------



## Kandace Mallard

Hey Guys!

 I recently decided to make the move from gaming headset to headphones. I purchased the Sound Blaster ZXR sound card intending to use the Optical In/Out pass through. This is my problem:


 In my XB1's sound settings, I select Bitstream out (Either DTS or Dolby, doesn't matter, results are the same), the optical cable is plugged into an optical switch, which is plugged into the Optical-In on my sound card. When I check the box for "Listen to this device", all I hear is horrible electronic buzzing.  If I connect the Xbox directly to the sound card (bypassing the switch, same results, so it's not the switch).  I even tried my other XB1.  Same deal.

 The first few times I tried stereo uncompressed, I couldn't hear anything, but it's working now. I may not have had my volume high enough initially because I do have to turn it up pretty high to hear sound. But I DO get sound.

 I know, I know, just be happy that you have sound, right?  After the hours that I spent obsessing over all of this before I got sound through stereo uncompressed, I'm elated to hear anything at all. The real b!tch of it is that when I switch to my PS4 (running off the exact same optical switch) I can use bitstream DTS and Dolby, NO problem. What??? My PS4 pretty much serves as a DVD player that I occasionally play Destiny on with my ONE friend who doesn't own an XB.

 If I plug my XB1 directly into my Z906 speakers, I can use any format. That's great, except the whole point of this is to be able to use my headphones while playing FPS games, so... meh.

 The sound card has all the latest drivers, and my XB1 is up to date. I'm just throwing this out there because I know the Sound Blaster Z series is REALLY popular, and a lot of folks are streaming and have both consoles and a PC. I can't be the only person who's run into this, and somebody out there in Internet land may have already conquered this final boss, or can maybe explain what the problem is and/or why my PS4 works. Share your knowledge with me, senpai(s)!

 I've asked this question everywhere I can think of, including the Xbox forums and Xbox reddit.  I'm asking here because I'm trying to come at it from all sides!  And this is the console gaming headphone thread...


----------



## Yethal

I'm surprised the PS4 works at all. I was sure Dolby Digital decoding via optical in would be blocked due to copyright patent trademark something ******** by Dolby. You sure the a/v settings on the xbox are correct?


----------



## Kandace Mallard

Hi Yethal,
  
 I know I'd heard something about copyright restrictions, yadda yadda.  But my PS4 definitely works.  On my XB1, it's currently set to stereo uncompressed, and I am getting audio that way.  But if I set it to bitstream (either Dolby or DTS) I just get noise.  It's my PS4, which is currently set to bitstream DTS, and I can hear everything just fine *shrugs* idk lol.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hi guys. It's been about a year since I last posted here (my interest in audio gear seems to kick in around summer time for some reason).
  
 For a long time I've intended to buy a pair of HD600 headphones. My interest in that particular set of headphones is not based purely on their performance in gaming but because they are such an important headphone in the world of audio, I want a pair 1) So I know what all the fuss is about. 2) I've never owned a pair of Sennheisers (which I feel I should as someone that is interested in audio) and 3) I am also interested in experimenting with amps, so seeing how they are renowned for being headphones that scale well, they are a great candidate.
  
 The problem has always been that gaming is a large part of my application for headphones/headsets, so I couldn't justify the purchase of them for music alone. The other problem has been finding the means to deliver virtual surround to them on multiple platforms in a satisfactory manner (as I play on console and PC). As far as I am aware my options were the Sound Blaster X7 or double amping out of a Mixamp or similar device (which I'd rather not do). The Sound Blaster X7 is pretty expensive and for that kind of money it would have to be ideal for my circumstances, which it isn't.
  
 The idea of a device like a Mixamp that can output the virtual surround processed audio so that I can send to an external amp to drive the HD600s effectively has been what I've wanted for a long time. I've recently noticed that Turtle Beach have (finally) released the TAC. I was wondering if you guys have any insight on the TAC and what its routing capabilities are. I've read the manual and noticed that it has an optical output, but I'm a bit unclear about whether this sends the processed signal out and whether an external amp and DAC (for use with the HD600s) would simply convert it back into stereo.
  
 I emailed Turtle Beach about a year ago telling them that I had been interested in the TAC for some time and explained how there are people (thinking of you guys) that would love for the TAC to offer a line out to be used with external amplifiers so that people could use hard to drive headphones with virtual surround, but I never got a reply and sadly the TAC doesn't seem to feature a line out.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kandace mallard said:


> I recently decided to make the move from gaming headset to headphones. I purchased the Sound Blaster ZXR sound card intending to use the Optical In/Out pass through. This is my problem:
> 
> In my XB1's sound settings, I select Bitstream out (Either DTS or Dolby, doesn't matter, results are the same), the optical cable is plugged into an optical switch, which is plugged into the Optical-In on my sound card. When I check the box for "Listen to this device", all I hear is horrible electronic buzzing.  If I connect the Xbox directly to the sound card (bypassing the switch, same results, so it's not the switch).  I even tried my other XB1.  Same deal.
> The first few times I tried stereo uncompressed, I couldn't hear anything, but it's working now. I may not have had my volume high enough initially because I do have to turn it up pretty high to hear sound. But I DO get sound.
> ...


 
  
 The Creative Labs Z, Zx, ZxR cards optical input only supports 2-channel PCM.
 So encode/compressed (bitstreaming) DDL or DTS-Connect, thru digital optical is not supported (by the SB card's optical input).
 http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=107680
  
 Why your PS4 is able to send encoded (bitstream) digital audio to the SB-ZxR cards is a mystery.
 Unless even thru you have bitstream enabled on the PS4, but it's still just sending 2-channels of PCM audio, to the SB-ZxR card.
 On the PS4, if you disable DTS and Dolby, so just sending 2-channels of PCM audio thru the optical, is the sound the same?


----------



## Kandace Mallard

purpleangel said:


> The Creative Labs Z, Zx, ZxR cards optical input only supports 2-channel PCM.
> So encode/compressed (bitstreaming) DDL or DTS-Connect, thru digital optical is not supported (by the SB card's optical input).
> http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=107680
> 
> ...


 
  
 I'll check it out later today, and thank you for the article link.  I'll give that a  read as well.


----------



## Evshrug

kandace mallard said:


> I'll check it out later today, and thank you for the article link.  I'll give that a  read as well.



 I was thinking of saying the same thing, the SoundBlaster internal soundcards don't include Dolby or DTS decoding licensing. Your computer might actually have DTS decoding software included with it, or purchased separately in the past. If you wanted, you could do the same for Dolby. It's just that Creative does not include it with the internal sound cards, or most of their products for that matter.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Pretty sure I'm a contributor solely because of time or post count
> Or wait... I'm a contributor? I just realized I was thinking Headphoneus Supremus! Cool, I'm labeled a contributor!




I only see 'Supremus' next to your posts and on your profile. Maybe he was referring to Mad? Though, I do agree, your contribution should be noted. Is it post count that decides that 'Contributor' label? I hope not because someone's post count can often be misinterpreted. I (for example) post a lot but am far from the 'Supremus' next to my name. It would be very misleading if I would reach Contributor because of said post count.

Btw, any news on you possibly getting a review sample of the TAC?


----------



## Kandace Mallard

evshrug said:


> I was thinking of saying the same thing, the SoundBlaster internal soundcards don't include Dolby or DTS decoding licensing. Your computer might actually have DTS decoding software included with it, or purchased separately in the past. If you wanted, you could do the same for Dolby. It's just that Creative does not include it with the internal sound cards, or most of their products for that matter.


 
  
 I was wondering if that could have anything to do with it.  I have a Blu-ray player installed, so I do have PowerDVD and whatever codecs that comes with.  But if that's the case and explains why the PS4 works, why doesn't the XB1?  I'm still going to do what Purple Angel suggested and verify that it's not PCM on my PS4 even though it still says Dolby/DTS.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I only see 'Supremus' next to your posts and on your profile. Maybe he was referring to Mad? Though, I do agree, your contribution should be noted. Is it post count that decides that 'Contributor' label? I hope not because someone's post count can often be misinterpreted. I (for example) post a lot but am far from the 'Supremus' next to my name. It would be very misleading if I would reach Contributor because of said post count.
> 
> Btw, any news on you possibly getting a review sample of the TAC?



I tried contacting their PR guy, but I haven't heard back (yet?). I left two voicemails, but I didn't want to spam him. Maybe I'll just buy one, but I've got plenty on my plate for now before I run out of stuff for the DSP playlist.




kandace mallard said:


> I was wondering if that could have anything to do with it.  I have a Blu-ray player installed, so I do have PowerDVD and whatever codecs that comes with.  But if that's the case and explains why the PS4 works, why doesn't the XB1?  I'm still going to do what Purple Angel suggested and verify that it's not PCM on my PS4 even though it still says Dolby/DTS.



Maybe try the XBOne with DTS instead, and see if that is static or music? Because I bet PowerDVD is helping


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Pretty sure I'm a contributor solely because of time or post count
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You should be, Your reviews and the discussion journal are (together with this thread) an amazing introduction to the headphone gaming.


change is good said:


> I only see 'Supremus' next to your posts and on your profile. Maybe he was referring to Mad? Though, I do agree, your contribution should be noted. Is it post count that decides that 'Contributor' label? I hope not because someone's post count can often be misinterpreted. I (for example) post a lot but am far from the 'Supremus' next to my name. It would be very misleading if I would reach Contributor because of said post count.
> 
> Btw, any news on you possibly getting a review sample of the TAC?


 
 It was only after I posted that I realized that Evshrug is listed as Headphoneus Supremus and not as a Contributor. Which is kinda backwards since post count is not proportionate to member's contribution to the forum. I'm almost at the HS level and my contributions to this forum are rather miniscule. If anything these badges should be awarded for stuff like tutorials, reviews and articles not posts.


----------



## Evshrug

Listening to the Phillips SPH9500 right now... These things are pretty righteous! Quite a solid value, good punch/impact, decent balance, totally worth $100, steal at the low prices they hover at now.

I'm not calling them giant killers with tons of insight, but they don't seem to be lacking on bass, mids, treble, soundstage, imaging... So this could be a great all-rounder headphone if you don't want to spend a lot of money. The light weight is great too, but I have facial hair (sideburns and chinstrap) which get a bit itchy with the pads (but my skin is like... very irritable, so I'm probably more picky than most and have more facial hair than most). Again, extremely good value at the $55 you'll frequently find them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kandace mallard said:


> I was wondering if that could have anything to do with it.  I have a Blu-ray player installed, so I do have PowerDVD and whatever codecs that comes with.  But if that's the case and explains why the PS4 works, why doesn't the XB1?  I'm still going to do what Purple Angel suggested and verify that it's not PCM on my PS4 even though it still says Dolby/DTS.


 
  
 Power DVD would have to have DDL to decode bitstream/compressed Dolby audio tracks off a disk
 and also have DTS-Connect to decode bitstream/compressed DTS audio tracks off a disk.


----------



## whitenoise1204

Hi everyone.
 Mainly registered here to say "thanks"; I'm no audiophile albeit I made some research on the matter, and I used the guide as a lurker for my earlier purchase 
 Now I'm looking forward to getting some recommendations on my next one.
  


Spoiler: Small personal review in spoiler, as well as reasons why I want to change my current set. Skip if you're not interested



I went for a pair of Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus about 6 months ago, mainly for PC gaming but also for the occasional music listening/movie watching/console playing session. Audio quality sounded awesome to my ears, regardless of the use I did with them or the game I played; be it a track on Spotify, a movie on TV or the hellish plains of the latest DOOM installment, they made a great job with clear audio and a non-overwhelming bass (as the trend seems to dictate of late....with "of late" being perhaps the latest 4 to 5 years? lol).
 Just had a bad experience with the pads; I changed 2 pairs and the hot-glue-stitching kept breaking anyway. Eventually, I got bored of ordering new pad pairs and I started manually sewing them with needle and string. Obviously, they aren't breaking anymore.
  
 Sadly, I must change them. They were an awesome purchase, but my big head (hat size 7 3/4 or 7 5/8) and the slightly shallow earpads made them a bit uncomfortable in terms of clamping force for short sessions, but actually making my ears hurt as well on the longer week-end sessions. I currently have the money to change them, but I honestly can't decide amongst the models in this guide, and I'd also like to give a try to wireless solutions.


  
 I'm on a 200€ "stretchable-if-worth-it" budget, looking for cans that can fit my head (hat size 7 3/4~7 5/8) and my ears (not Dumbo-like deep, but deep anyways).
 Wired or wireless are both fine, but possibly close or semi-open ended; I use Discord, TS and Skype a lot, not to mention I tend to mainly listen at power metal, so I don't really want to disturb anyone else in the house 
 If you're going to suggest open ended headphones, I'll take the recommendation anyway, but I'll probably look for how much sound they leak on the internet and eventually make my decision on that.
 I don't plan on getting amps or DACs, nor an internal/external sound card, so I'll have to stick with what my MoBo can handle (Realtek ALC1150, I believe anything below 50ohms impedance and above 90db sensitivity should work fine, although perhaps 40~50 ohm ones will indeed need an amp to bring out their full potential). It has some minimal virtual surround functionality too which works surprisingly well
  
 I'm currently eyeing the Sennheiser RS 175, the Creative Aurvana Live! (1 or 2? what are the differences, if any?) and the Audio Technica ATH-M50X, although I'm not too sure about them, as they look like they have shallow pads; also, basing on personal experience with other headphones, having a big head is usually a terrible thing for hinge-based foldable pairs...
 I was also eyeing the HD 598, although it seems they leak a lot of sound (I could get them for 150€, which seems a pretty nice deal), and the Skullcandy Slyr, albeit they seem extremely shallow and small for my head.
  
 Any help is really more than appreciated, considering the ocean of possibilities in available hardware 
 And again, thank you for the guide in the first place!


----------



## Yethal

whitenoise1204 said:


> Hi everyone.
> Mainly registered here to say "thanks"; I'm no audiophile albeit I made some research on the matter, and I used the guide as a lurker for my earlier purchase
> Now I'm looking forward to getting some recommendations on my next one.
> 
> ...


 

 I used to own the 598. They're fine for both music and games although if You're looking for a bassy headphone this one is not it. However these can be easily driven even by a phone.


----------



## whitenoise1204

I'm reading good things about the 598s, that's why I was taking them into consideration despite them being open ended. And about bass, I'm looking for something that sounds natural and that can be regulated and/or equalized. 

The more I look into headphones and try them at local stores lately, the more I hear extremely bass-heavy ones, so heavy that they actually cover the rest when present. It's rather annoying, and judging by the word around the web, it isn't just me.


----------



## shuto77

whitenoise1204 said:


> I'm reading good things about the 598s, that's why I was taking them into consideration despite them being open ended. And about bass, I'm looking for something that sounds natural and that can be regulated and/or equalized.
> 
> The more I look into headphones and try them at local stores lately, the more I hear extremely bass-heavy ones, so heavy that they actually cover the rest when present. It's rather annoying, and judging by the word around the web, it isn't just me.




Yeah, it's good to try out all kinds of headphones, both open and closed, bassy, neutral and bright, to get a handle on the sound signature you like. 

Once you decide upon sound signature, then open vs. closed, then budget, it starts to narrow the field down a bit. 

Once you decide upon these three criteria, the group can give you more focused suggestions.


----------



## whitenoise1204

shuto77 said:


> Yeah, it's good to try out all kinds of headphones, both open and closed, bassy, neutral and bright, to get a handle on the sound signature you like.
> 
> Once you decide upon sound signature, then open vs. closed, then budget, it starts to narrow the field down a bit.
> 
> Once you decide upon these three criteria, the group can give you more focused suggestions.


 
  
  
 I thought at least the latter 2 points were clear 
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitenoise1204* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'm on a *200€ "stretchable-if-worth-it" budget*, looking for cans that can fit my head (hat size 7 3/4~7 5/8) and my ears (not Dumbo-like deep, but deep anyways).
> Wired or wireless are both fine, but *possibly close or semi-open ended*; I use Discord, TS and Skype a lot, not to mention I tend to mainly listen at power metal, so I don't really want to disturb anyone else in the house


 
  
 As per signature, I'm not really an audiophile, so I can't really say for sure...
 After googling a bit, I guess the best way to describe the signature I'm looking for is warm, but balanced. I usually fiddle a lot with EQ settings and almost always end up with slight V-shapes.
 In short:
 - Bass and lows have to be there, but they shouldn't overwhelm other frequencies
 - Mids can VERY SLIGHTLY suffer in favor of lower or higher ranges
 - Highs and treble are usually the ones getting more "oomph" from the EQ settings
  


Spoiler: A small list of the equipment I've been through, if it can help



*- Microsoft Lifechat LX-3000 *
 Good for chatting, decent for non-competitive gaming, horrible for music, albeit comfortable....don't judge me, I was poor 
*- Roccat KAVE *
 Heavy, uncomfortable, horrible audio no matter the usage, hinges broke THREE times until I switched for the next one in the list
*- CM Storm Sirus 5.1 *
 Not too bad. Perhaps a bit weak on the highs and somewhat flat all-around, but I assume that was due to 4 drives per ear...
*- Sennheiser MX365*
 Earphones I currently use mainly on my phone (a Sony Xperia Z1 Compact).
 Awesome quality for being earphones, and after equalized with the aforementioned V-shape basicly makes up for the almost perfect audio signature
*- Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus*
 Present day. Awesome quality, usual V-shape EQ, bass sliders are opened to the 1st position on each ear. Again almost perfect audio signature, but uncomfortable due to my head size...


----------



## Yethal

Have You tried using DT770 pads with the Custom One Pro?/


----------



## whitenoise1204

yethal said:


> Have You tried using DT770 pads with the Custom One Pro?/


 

 Amongst the extra pads I tried there were some DT770 ones, I believe. I bought them at a local shop, but they fit loosely, so I eventually returned them.
 Not sure if they were original tho, although I don't see how different pads can change the situation....can you please explain? I'm curious.


----------



## Yethal

whitenoise1204 said:


> Amongst the extra pads I tried there were some DT770 ones, I believe. I bought them at a local shop, but they fit loosely, so I eventually returned them.
> Not sure if they were original tho, although I don't see how different pads can change the situation....can you please explain? I'm curious.


 
 Deeper earpads may be better suited for You. If not the DT770 then maybe Audeze earpads, these are huge.


----------



## whitenoise1204

yethal said:


> Deeper earpads may be better suited for You. If not the DT770 then maybe Audeze earpads, these are huge.


 

 I assume they weren't official then. As I said, I believe there were some DT770 compatible earpads amongst the ones I tried, but I didn't notice any difference; clamping was still a bit too much for longer sessions and the pads were fitting a bit loosely on the headphones themselves, so I returned them to the store and switched them back for the original white ones I had (and that I manually stitched).
 I'll try getting a pair over Amazon then and see how things go. I'll get back when the order arrives.


----------



## Kandace Mallard

purpleangel said:


> Power DVD would have to have DDL to decode bitstream/compressed Dolby audio tracks off a disk
> and also have DTS-Connect to decode bitstream/compressed DTS audio tracks off a disk.


 
 Figured it out.  The PS4 is ridiculous to navigate, but it was indeed defaulting to Linear PCM!
  
 Why on earth are you able to use Dolby and DTS over HDMI, but not optical?  Makes no sense to me... 
  
 Nevertheless, thanks for everyone's input.


----------



## Change is Good

Just wanted to share some more sick work from @PETEREK!
  

  
 Got my BoomPro adapter ready for when they arrive. Time to merk some fools with these on!


----------



## PurpleAngel

kandace mallard said:


> Figured it out.  The PS4 is ridiculous to navigate, but it was indeed defaulting to Linear PCM!
> 
> Why on earth are you able to use Dolby and DTS over HDMI, but not optical?  Makes no sense to me...
> 
> Nevertheless, thanks for everyone's input.


 
  
 You can use Dolby & DTS over S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), it's just somewhat limited.


----------



## whitenoise1204

So, the DT770 pads arrived. They do increase comfort for the ears, but the additional padding also increases the clamping force to the point that, given the already small size, they become highly uncomfortable anyway after long wearing periods.

Should I still try the Audeze ones?


----------



## Yethal

whitenoise1204 said:


> So, the DT770 pads arrived. They do increase comfort for the ears, but the additional padding also increases the clamping force to the point that, given the already small size, they become highly uncomfortable anyway after long wearing periods.
> 
> Should I still try the Audeze ones?


 

 That's weird, I expected them to be more comfortable than the stock ones. Can't You bend the COP headband a little to reduce the clamping force? Or overextend the headphones?


----------



## whitenoise1204

They are overextended already, and the DT770 pads DO make it more comfortable. It's just that the extra padding they have over the stock ones makes the headphone hard to wear at start and extremely fatiguing over time (head starts pulsing quite consistently); I could say that, at least, they don't hurt anymore, but I have to take breaks every now and then anyway, which is what I'm trying to avoid. I might settle for it, but if I can avoid the situation entirely, why shouldn't I go for the extra length? 

I didn't try bending the headband yet, but I don't really feel like doing that. I think I may damage them, and I'd rather sell them as 2nd hand than lose them entirely.

As a side note: when I tried the DT770 pads I had more time to check the stock ones. Basicly, the clamping force is so high that they actually got slightly flattened out...


----------



## jincuteguy

whitenoise1204 said:


> They are overextended already, and the DT770 pads DO make it more comfortable. It's just that the extra padding they have over the stock ones makes the headphone hard to wear at start and extremely fatiguing over time (head starts pulsing quite consistently); I could say that, at least, they don't hurt anymore, but I have to take breaks every now and then anyway, which is what I'm trying to avoid. I might settle for it, but if I can avoid the situation entirely, why shouldn't I go for the extra length?
> 
> I didn't try bending the headband yet, but I don't really feel like doing that. I think I may damage them, and I'd rather sell them as 2nd hand than lose them entirely.
> 
> As a side note: when I tried the DT770 pads I had more time to check the stock ones. Basicly, the clamping force is so high that they actually got slightly flattened out...


 
  
 You use the DT770 pads for what headphone?


----------



## whitenoise1204

jincuteguy said:


> You use the DT770 pads for what headphone?


 
  
 Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro+
 "Full story", should you want to read it, starts a page back or exactly at this post


----------



## pewfish

Hey guys, I've been watching this thread on and off since I got my PS4 in March. I've been checking to see if there are any appropriate Mixamps on eBay and have been having no luck(EU), and the ones I usually find are the newer ones like the Pro TR. After reading someone posting a video on how the sound on the TR is tinny, I'm reluctant to purchase one.
  
 I currently have a Hyper CloudX and might upgrade that at some stage to a HD 598. What I'm wondering is instead of using the MixAmp, am I able to route the audio to a PC and get similar if not better results? I'm planning on building my own workstation soon enough and wondered should I spend the money I would spend on a Mixamp Pro TR and use that on a sound card that will achieve something similar/better.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pewfish said:


> Hey guys, I've been watching this thread on and off since I got my PS4 in March. I've been checking to see if there are any appropriate Mixamps on eBay and have been having no luck(EU), and the ones I usually find are the newer ones like the Pro TR. After reading someone posting a video on how the sound on the TR is tinny, I'm reluctant to purchase one.
> 
> I currently have a Hyper CloudX and might upgrade that at some stage to a HD 598. What I'm wondering is instead of using the MixAmp, am I able to route the audio to a PC and get similar if not better results? I'm planning on building my own workstation soon enough and wondered should I spend the money I would spend on a Mixamp Pro TR and use that on a sound card that will achieve something similar/better.


 

 You could route from the headphone out on the Mixamp to the aux in on your soundcard if it has one, but you'll be double amping.
  
 As stated in my last post, the problem with devices like the Mixamp is the lack of line out to send to an amp. That's why I was curious to know what the routing possibilities are on the Turtle Beach TAC as I've been looking for something that will process Virtual Surround and route to an external amp without double amping. I assume nobody here knows as I didn't get a reply.
  
 As far as I'm aware, the choices are either sending to an external source (amp or in your case, aux in on a soundcard to use its amp) via the headphone out on devices such as the Mixamp or buy the Sound Blaster X7 which has a pretty powerful amp and can process virtual surround via the optical input (or at least I think it can).


----------



## pewfish

napalmhardcore said:


> You could route from the headphone out on the Mixamp to the aux in on your soundcard if it has one, but you'll be double amping.
> 
> As stated in my last post, the problem with devices like the Mixamp is the lack of line out to send to an amp. That's why I was curious to know what the routing possibilities are on the Turtle Beach TAC as I've been looking for something that will process Virtual Surround and route to an external amp without double amping. I assume nobody here knows as I didn't get a reply.
> 
> As far as I'm aware, the choices are either sending to an external source (amp or in your case, aux in on a soundcard to use its amp) via the headphone out on devices such as the Mixamp or buy the Sound Blaster X7 which has a pretty powerful amp and can process virtual surround via the optical input (or at least I think it can).


 
 Oh pity, so I still have to get the mixamp instead of forgoing it?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pewfish said:


> Oh pity, so I still have to get the mixamp instead of forgoing it?


 

 If you want virtual surround (I'm assuming you did), you'll need something to process it.
  
 In the case of the X7, you wouldn't need the Mixamp as I'm pretty sure it will process the signal from the optical input (might want to confirm with Evshrug as I think he has one, or at least he tested one).
  
 There's a shortage of devices that will process virtual surround via optical input. AV receivers sometimes have their own virtual surround technology (Yamaha's is called silent cinema), so going via HDMI to the receiver is a possibility if you have one, but for routing from a console, it's going to be something like the Mixamp or X7 (something that can process virtual surround from a digital input).


----------



## Yethal

> (...)





> Sound Blaster X7 which has a pretty powerful amp and can process virtual surround via the optical input (or at least I think it can).


 
 It can since the latest firmware upgrade.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pewfish said:


> Oh pity, so I still have to get the mixamp instead of forgoing it?


 

 I've just read back my reply to you and I've made it a bit confusing (I'm tired). Let me start again.
  
 If you want virtual surround, you will need a device to process it. There are devices such as the Mixamp and Turtle Beach DSS/DSS2 etc (small devices with relatively weak amps, not considered audiophile devices). Then you have the possibility of using an AV receiver that has it's own virtual surround processing. Lastly there is the X7, which aims to be audiophile grade, has a powerful amp and many inputs and outputs.


----------



## Evshrug

whitenoise1204 said:


> Hi everyone.
> Mainly registered here to say "thanks"; I'm no audiophile albeit I made some research on the matter, and I used the guide as a lurker for my earlier purchase
> ...



Hey, I want to dig into this and reply, but I just finished my lunch break. Liked what I read so far of your headphone impressions. Short reply is, seems like you've got big brains like Mad, so if he particularly mentions difficulties fitting a headphone over his melon or finds a headphone particularly comfortable, you probably will too.




kandace mallard said:


> Figured it out.  The PS4 is ridiculous to navigate, but it was indeed defaulting to Linear PCM!
> 
> Why on earth are you able to use Dolby and DTS over HDMI, but not optical?  Makes no sense to me...
> 
> Nevertheless, thanks for everyone's input.



Yay!!!!
 My video and posted next week Will have details on where on the settings are.


----------



## Evshrug

pewfish said:


> Oh pity, so I still have to get the mixamp instead of forgoing it?



X7 can replace the Mixamp, connect to your PS4 via optical and decode Dolby. Meanwhile, it can be connected to your workstation PC at the same time via USB, and act as a top of the line external sound card. You can play both at once. Also your phone via a USB host. And Bluetooth.


----------



## pervysage

evshrug said:


> X7 can replace the Mixamp, connect to your PS4 via optical and decode Dolby. Meanwhile, it can be connected to your workstation PC at the same time via USB, and act as a top of the line external sound card. You can play both at once. Also your phone via a USB host. And Bluetooth.




How do the Mixamp and X7 compare when it comes to surround sound and positional cues?


----------



## pewfish

evshrug said:


> X7 can replace the Mixamp, connect to your PS4 via optical and decode Dolby. Meanwhile, it can be connected to your workstation PC at the same time via USB, and act as a top of the line external sound card. You can play both at once. Also your phone via a USB host. And Bluetooth.


 
  
  


napalmhardcore said:


> I've just read back my reply to you and I've made it a bit confusing (I'm tired). Let me start again.
> 
> If you want virtual surround, you will need a device to process it. There are devices such as the Mixamp and Turtle Beach DSS/DSS2 etc (small devices with relatively weak amps, not considered audiophile devices). Then you have the possibility of using an AV receiver that has it's own virtual surround processing. Lastly there is the X7, which aims to be audiophile grade, has a powerful amp and many inputs and outputs.


 
  
 Hey guys, just want to thank the both of you for taking the time to give suggestions.
  
 So from what I can understand, I have to PS4 >[optical]>Surround Device > Headphones. I'd love to get the X7 but that's rather costly. What if I get something like this sound card(has an optical in) and do PS4 >[optical]> PC Sound card > Headphones. Is that viable or even possible?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pewfish said:


> Hey guys, just want to thank the both of you for taking the time to give suggestions.
> 
> So from what I can understand, I have to PS4 >[optical]>Surround Device > Headphones. I'd love to get the X7 but that's rather costly. What if I get something like this sound card(has an optical in) and do PS4 >[optical]> PC Sound card > Headphones. Is that viable or even possible?


 
 I've had a read of the manual but couldn't find anything specifically stating whether it applies virtual surround processing to the optical input. Might be worth checking out their forums or shooting their customer support an email to make sure (personally I'd do the latter).


----------



## Yethal

pewfish said:


> Hey guys, just want to thank the both of you for taking the time to give suggestions.
> 
> So from what I can understand, I have to PS4 >[optical]>Surround Device > Headphones. I'd love to get the X7 but that's rather costly. What if I get something like this sound card(has an optical in) and do PS4 >[optical]> PC Sound card > Headphones. Is that viable or even possible?


 

 notgonnahappenland.com No soundcard (aside from the X7) can process Dolby Digital signal from the optical input. Blame Dolby and their greed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

pewfish said:


> Hey guys, just want to thank the both of you for taking the time to give suggestions.
> So from what I can understand, I have to PS4 >[optical]>Surround Device > Headphones. I'd love to get the X7 but that's rather costly. What if I get something like this sound card(has an optical in) and do PS4 >[optical]> PC Sound card > Headphones. Is that viable or even possible?


 
  
 The SB-ZxR's optical input will only work with (take in) 2-channels of PCM (un-compressed) digital audio.
 Surround sound normally needs 6-channel (5.1) of digital audio to function.
 For surround sound headphone gaming with a console, the Astro Mix-amp is about the only low cost option.


----------



## pewfish

yethal said:


> notgonnahappenland.com No soundcard (aside from the X7) can process Dolby Digital signal from the optical input. Blame Dolby and their greed.


 
  


purpleangel said:


> The SB-ZxR's optical input will only work with (take in) 2-channels of PCM (un-compressed) digital audio.
> Surround sound normally needs 6-channel (5.1) of digital audio to function.
> For surround sound headphone gaming with a console, the Astro Mix-amp is about the only low cost option.


 
 That's very disappointing, I was hoping for a more elegant/streamlined solution. On that note, where can I find where you found that bit of information? I checked the product details on Amazon and also on the Creative site. Shall I dig through the manuals too?
  
 With regards to the Mixamp, should I just go for the Pro TR or is there a specific model I should look for? From what I can understand the 2011 Mixamp has less "noise" but from a post a good few pages back I recall someone posting that there was a FW fix for the later models? I see these on eBay sometimes but I'm relucant to bid for one since I'm not too sure.


----------



## Yethal

Lack of dolby decoding is in the card specification. As for the mixamp go for the 2011 version. This product stopped evolving since then.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Lack of dolby decoding is in the card specification. As for the mixamp go for the 2011 version. This product stopped evolving since then.


 

 If he's using it for both PC and console, wouldn't he be better off going with the Pro TR? I thought all the older models only did stereo over USB. If he goes for an older model, he'll have to buy a soundcard either for its own surround sound capabilities or one that has Dolby Digital Live output to send to the Mixamp (when he's on PC).


----------



## PurpleAngel

pewfish said:


> That's very disappointing, I was hoping for a more elegant/streamlined solution. On that note, where can I find where you found that bit of information? I checked the product details on Amazon and also on the Creative site. Shall I dig through the manuals too?
> 
> With regards to the Mix-amp, should I just go for the Pro TR or is there a specific model I should look for? From what I can understand the 2011 Mix-amp has less "noise" but from a post a good few pages back I recall someone posting that there was a FW fix for the later models? I see these on eBay sometimes but I'm reluctant to bid for one since I'm not too sure.


 
  
 Kind of common knowledge that the optical input on Creative cards only does 2-channel PCM.
 But you can ask on this Creative forum.
 http://forums.creative.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6
  
 For an Astro Mix-amp, just buy an older used unit off eBay.
 I'm not into console gaming, so not knowledgeable about which mix-amp is better then others.
  
 There is even the old Turtle Beach system DSS unit (built in Dolby functions), sell used for under $20.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pervysage said:


> How do the Mixamp and X7 compare when it comes to surround sound and positional cues?




Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone which has more accurate positional cues, but sounds more echo-y and processed. X7 uses SBX which sounds really good in most aspects, though positional cues aren't AS accurate, though still very good. Most people will still prefer the latter in general.

Dolby Headphone's soundfield is more rounded/circular. SBX is more oval shaped. So it's harder to accurately place sounds at certain angles like 5 o clock behind you, or 10 o clock in front of you, as examples.

Dolby Headphone also has a weightier sound, so it sounds more cinematic.

I prefer DH mainly because there is zero guessing game. I know the positional cues are super accurate. With the X7, with some games, it takes a moment to tell whether something is in front or behind or in specific angles at times. It's rare, and I wouldn't say it's something to cause alarm. 95% of the time X7 is perfectly fine. Sound quality of SBX > DH.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> If he's using it for both PC and console, wouldn't he be better off going with the Pro TR? I thought all the older models only did stereo over USB. If he goes for an older model, he'll have to buy a soundcard either for its own surround sound capabilities or one that has Dolby Digital Live output to send to the Mixamp (when he's on PC).



Recon 3d is both pc and console compatible with much better sq. I bought mine for an equivalent of 30 dollars back in the day.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Recon 3d is both pc and console compatible with much better sq. I bought mine for an equivalent of 30 dollars back in the day.


 

 Wonder why they stopped making it and/or why they never released a successor. For the last few years the only competition has been (if you wanted to buy new) the Astro Mixamp or the Turtle Beach DSS2. The market is hardly crowded.
  
 I just saw one on ebay for £20. I was half tempted to order it out of curiosity, but I don't really need it and I'd rather save my pennies for when someone eventually makes a virtual surround device with a line out so I can use whatever headphones/amp I want.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> Wonder why they stopped making it and/or why they never released a successor. For the last few years the only competition has been (if you wanted to buy new) the Astro Mixamp or the Turtle Beach DSS2. The market is hardly crowded.
> 
> I just saw one on ebay for £20. I was half tempted to order it out of curiosity, but I don't really need it and I'd rather save my pennies for when someone eventually makes a virtual surround device with a line out so I can use whatever headphones/amp I want.



Dss can be modified for a true lineout if that's what You want. There's also the X7 which albeit much pricier is the way to go if You're looking for an all in one.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Dss can be modified for a true lineout if that's what You want. There's also the X7 which albeit much pricier is the way to go if You're looking for an all in one.


 

 I'm admittedly not really into modding stuff. While the X7 would be nice to have, I cant really justify the cost for the extras I don't need (I already have an AV receiver to power my speakers, I don't really need or want Bluetooth and much of the time I play while sitting or lying on my bed, so a small device would be preferable). If someone released something along the lines of the Mixamp with a line out (preferably fixed) I'd be a happy bunny.


----------



## pewfish

I guess I'll probably be going for the DSS or the Recon 3D. I can't justify paying upwards of 60 euro for a Mixamp or upwards of 300 for the X7 if it is just for the console. I can get the former two for under 30 euros on eBay and then get a decent sound card when I build my PC.
  
 I see the DSS and Recon 3D (some with the wireless headphones included) for under 40 euro. Which of the two should I go for if I intend to get better headphones/headsets in the future?


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> Dss can be modified for a true lineout if that's what You want. There's also the X7 which albeit much pricier is the way to go if You're looking for an all in one.




Where can I find info on modifying the DSS? Did someone do it here? I'd give that a shot.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Where can I find info on modifying the DSS? Did someone do it here? I'd give that a shot.



Afaik it was posted in this thread but that was so long ago You'd have to do some serious digging.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Ok, a good idea not to then. Btw, for anyone else, it looks like the review was written in German, so hopefully you can read that or Google translate it.
> 
> A while back, we had a guy who liked his DSS 2 very much and figured out how to mod it to a line-out signal, but I haven't seen him in about a year. Basically, the DSS2 was very decent with low hiss and good technical qualities and DDL decoding, but instead of Dolby Headphone for surround re-processing it used a different headphone algorithm by Cirrus Logic, and you could adjust the angles of the speakers. Seemed promising but for $80 I never bought it for myself.


 

@lenroot77 - Unfortunately the above quote is all I've managed to dig up so far. Will keep looking.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> @lenroot77
> - Unfortunately the above quote is all I've managed to dig up so far. Will keep looking.



Thanks
I can look ok myself later today.


----------



## burritoboy9984

Just got to spend some time with the TAC last night. First impressions as previously mentioned it has elevated treble levels. I only had a chance to use it with the K7xx and the soundstage and presentation blows away the Mixamp imo. Unfortunately as also previously stated the amp section is weaker than the Mixamp and I had to have the volume maxed out.

The hardware feels solidly made, and the different adjustments you can make are great. I'm hoping to try it with X1's in the near future and see if their darker sound meshes better.

More to follow...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pewfish said:


> I guess I'll probably be going for the DSS or the Recon 3D. I can't justify paying upwards of 60 euro for a Mixamp or upwards of 300 for the X7 if it is just for the console. I can get the former two for under 30 euros on eBay and then get a decent sound card when I build my PC.
> 
> I see the DSS and Recon 3D (some with the wireless headphones included) for under 40 euro. Which of the two should I go for if I intend to get better headphones/headsets in the future?


 

 I'm not sure if the original is the same configuration, but if I remember correctly the DSS2 was intended for use with Turtle Beach headsets. Some of their headsets had USB and 3.5mm headphone inputs. The idea was, you set the USB to receive and send chat and the 3.5mm was for your game audio and you could mix in how much of each you want.
  
 Personally, I'd probably go with the Recon 3D.


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> Where can I find info on modifying the DSS? Did someone do it here? I'd give that a shot.



I95North did it to his DSS2, but he never said how. I imagine it involves opening the enclosure, following the circuit path that the audio travels on, and soldering in an output jack before the amp section. Or, more simply, just bypassing the potentiometer (the volume knob) so that the existing headphone jack essentially becomes a line-out.

Consider this: even a DAC has an amp section of sorts, you can't have power travel along a wire without an amp. The difference is there is less stuff along the analog section of the device, like no volume control (potentiometer) or resistors and stuff like that.

With that in mind, plugging an amp into a headphone jack can work quite well. It doesn't remove background hiss embedded into the signal or stuff like that, but the input of a second amp is like the easiest, closest to perfect load thing for the first amp to power (so you get the max capability of the amp in the first device), and then the second, external amp can do the heavy lifting of powering the headphone at each frequency. My bigger, external stand-alone amps often strengthen lower bass notes and higher treble notes, can handle more energetic or difficult notes/sounds without distorting, and exhibit a better grip/control/responsiveness over the driver and details compared to weaker amps intended for sensitive, portable headphones.




pewfish said:


> I guess I'll probably be going for the DSS or the Recon 3D. I can't justify paying upwards of 60 euro for a Mixamp or upwards of 300 for the X7 if it is just for the console. I can get the former two for under 30 euros on eBay and then get a decent sound card when I build my PC.
> 
> I see the DSS and Recon 3D (some with the wireless headphones included) for under 40 euro. Which of the two should I go for if I intend to get better headphones/headsets in the future?




https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4bc2SQk0h2QhBrVdL-Uxts2XvEo33oqy

I have videos demonstrating the setups and relative strengths and weaknesses of the DSS and Recon3D on my YouTube channel, and I'm publishing another about the Mixamp 5.8 soon (probably tonight, if I find the time). As with everything, a recommendation would be based on the headphone/activity you use and the features that are the biggest benefit for you... So far it seems like the Recon3D (or maybe the X7 that's on Sale on Massdrop right now, if you can stretch it) is the best fit because of it's simple PS4 setup, price, and ability to work with PC too.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not sure if the original is the same configuration, but if I remember correctly the DSS2 was intended for use with Turtle Beach headsets. Some of their headsets had USB and 3.5mm headphone inputs. The idea was, you set the USB to receive and send chat and the 3.5mm was for your game audio and you could mix in how much of each you want.
> 
> Personally, I'd probably go with the Recon 3D.




If you use a USB microphone with the PS4, then all other audio (game and chat) gets routed through Optical (or USB if you're using that in stereo). This is true for all the DSPs (like DSS or Mixamp), even the Recon3D (the PlayStation thinks the Recon3D is a USB headset, and the Recon3D handles mixing together Optical and USB audio perfectly).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> If you use a USB microphone with the PS4, then all other audio (game and chat) gets routed through Optical (or USB if you're using that in stereo). This is true for all the DSPs (like DSS or Mixamp), even the Recon3D (the PlayStation thinks the Recon3D is a USB headset, and the Recon3D handles mixing together Optical and USB audio perfectly).


 

 I realise that. I was just saying that the DSS2 has a headphone output, but no 3.5mm mic jack. The recommended way to use it was: The 3.5mm output from the DSS2 (the processed signal from the optical input) to the 3.5mm input on the headset's inline controller. You then used the USB connection on the headset which connects to a pass-through on the DSS2 for chat and you could then blend between USB chat audio and 3.5mm input game audio on the headset's inline controller.
  
 I guess it depends on whether he wants to use a USB mic or a 3.5mm mic. I gave my Turtle Beach headset and DSS2 to my friend because I decided to fit a Modmic to my AKG 240 MKii, so I needed something with an analogue mic input. Currently I have the Mixamp Gen 2. This setup works pretty well, though the chat audio on PS4 was horrible until I found out that there was a well known problem with it. Allegedly, the PS4 and the Mixamp both have noise gates that can't be switched off and don't play nicely together. The solution is to run a chat cable from the XBOX 360 chat port on the Mixamp to your PS4 controller as it bypasses the noise gate in the Mixamp.
  
 I'm not really that big a fan of the Modmic on my AKGs. It just makes them look a bit ugly (in my opinion). I think I'd like to take off the Modmic at some point and just use a lav mic. Not sure what I'll do with the Modmic. I'd like to find a use for it because selling it will be a hassle.


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


>


 

 A Jolteon appeared right in my room this morning.....who would have thought right? lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll ban everyone who talks about that game here.

I'll DO IT.

I mean, I have no power here, BUT I'LL DO IT.


----------



## Evshrug

Because you want to play?
Also, I didn't SAY anything 
Did you know some people call me ee-vee-shrug or eve-shrug when they meet me irl? It's kinda funny to me, as it's just "Ev-Shrug." I just HAD to share one pic


----------



## rudyae86

For those that are prime members on amazon, AWD deals has a promo code WDEARLY20 or WDEARLY for an additional 20% off your purchase. Its YMMV though but you can try. There are some HD800S going for $1444 and using the 20% brings it down to around $1110ish.


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> For those that are prime members on amazon, AWD deals has a promo code WDEARLY20 or WDEARLY for an additional 20% off your purchase. Its YMMV though but you can try. There are some HD800S going for $1444 and using the 20% brings it down to around $1110ish.




Thanks!

Cancelled my Massdrop X7 order and got a "like new" X7 for 280. Now I don't have to wait till the end of the month, will be here early next week. Will have to order the Bluetooth adapter though.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Did you know some people call me ee-vee-shrug or eve-shrug when they meet me irl?


 
 If I met you it would have been eve-shrug and once you frowned at me my second attempt would have been ee-vee-shrug. I'll admit it, I have no idea what you are talking about.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> If I met you it would have been eve-shrug and once you frowned at me my second attempt would have been ee-vee-shrug. I'll admit it, I have no idea what you are talking about.




Eevee is a Pokémon from a new game that Mad doesn't want us to talk about. If you had called me Eve to my face, I would have laughed! "Eve? Do I look like a girl to you? Don't start flirting, I'm taken!" No worries man, as I said it happens all the time. Ev is short for Everett (kinda like Evan with a different ending).


----------



## pewfish

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and Evshrug, your videos helped with deciding on the Recon 3D. Looking forward to seeing your Mixamp 5.8 thing going though. I guess I'll probably get the X7 at some stage. Just trying to justify the cost of paying the equivalent of 400USD.


----------



## jincuteguy

rudyae86 said:


> For those that are prime members on amazon, AWD deals has a promo code WDEARLY20 or WDEARLY for an additional 20% off your purchase. Its YMMV though but you can try. There are some HD800S going for $1444 and using the 20% brings it down to around $1110ish.


 
  
 $1440 HD800S is used, not new.  New HD800s is still $1700+
  
 Also the Promo code doesnt' work, tried both.


----------



## Evshrug

pewfish said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys, and Evshrug, your videos helped with deciding on the Recon 3D. Looking forward to seeing your Mixamp 5.8 thing going though. I guess I'll probably get the X7 at some stage. Just trying to justify the cost of paying the equivalent of 400USD.




Glad you liked them!
Justifying the value of higher-end gear is totally personal... For me, the added features provide plenty of benefit. The nice thing is $400 doesn't take TOO long to save up if you put your mind to it.
That said, are you able to use the AWD discount code that rudyrae posted? Lenroot got an X7 for like $280.

I'm definitely doing a video on the X7 as well, this summer/near future.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Anyone tried using planars for gaming? 
Specifically The hifiman he400s and fostex t50rp mk3.


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy - In all the excitement I forgot to make new diagrams for the X7. Here You go!


----------



## Change is Good

Just wanted to check in with some short impressions on the E-MU walnuts. These are REALLY good, but not my cup of tea. It's n-shaped sound signature reminds why I didn't like the SE535 and keep avoiding the HD650. I'm waiting on some velour pads to see if it can slightly improve its dark-ish tone. I must say, however, the bass and vocals are pretty special.


----------



## Change is Good

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Anyone tried using planars for gaming?
> Specifically The hifiman he400s and fostex t50rp mk3.


 
  
 The 400i has grown on me and become very dear to my heart. It's my fav for gaming, though I use the 9500 most.


----------



## jynxed

Can someone please advise is it worth getting a Recon3D THX for £25? Usage would be ps4 fps games. I know there is a newer version but not avaliable on ebay.co.uk.


----------



## pewfish

evshrug said:


> Glad you liked them!
> Justifying the value of higher-end gear is totally personal... For me, the added features provide plenty of benefit. The nice thing is $400 doesn't take TOO long to save up if you put your mind to it.
> That said, are you able to use the AWD discount code that rudyrae posted? Lenroot got an X7 for like $280.
> 
> I'm definitely doing a video on the X7 as well, this summer/near future.


 
 Oh I completely get the benefit, just that I won't get much use out of it therefore I can't justify paying that amount. Maybe for 280 I might bite since I was considering an almost equally expensive PC sound card, but that's doubtful since I'm in the EU and it just doesn't happen.
  
 I've found a few around and noticed some Recon3D sets have different packaging. Were there different versions of the Recon3D? I can't find information on that or I'm just not searching correctly.


----------



## Yethal

jynxed said:


> Can someone please advise is it worth getting a Recon3D THX for £25? Usage would be ps4 fps games. I know there is a newer version but not avaliable on ebay.co.uk.


 

 Just go for it. Recon3D is a great device.


----------



## paulkemp

OK, I may need some clarification. I have the 2011 Astro Mixamp connected to my pc through optical, using Beyerdynamic DT990s. Sounds very good, sounds better through optical than usb, it can drive the headphones louder with optical. Anyway, If i want to play games using Dolby Headphones i understand I need to setup windows so it's able output Dolby Digital in sound settings panel, like I have done in the pic below. But I never see anything in-game about 5.1 output? Lets say I want to play Overwatch using DH (Not using the Dolby Atmos for heaphones function in this example). I would do nothing exept press the DH button on my Astro?


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> OK, I may need some clarification. I have the 2011 Astro Mixamp connected to my pc through optical, using Beyerdynamic DT990s. Sounds very good, sounds better through optical than usb, it can drive the headphones louder with optical. Anyway, If i want to play games using Dolby Headphones i understand I need to setup windows so it's able output Dolby Digital in sound settings panel, like I have done in the pic below. But I never see anything in-game about 5.1 output? Lets say I want to play Overwatch using DH (Not using the Dolby Atmos for heaphones function in this example). I would do nothing exept press the DH button on my Astro?


 
 Go to Advanced tab and set Dolby Digital Live 5.1 as Your default format.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> Go to Advanced tab and set Dolby Digital Live 5.1 as Your default format.


 
  
 Thanks for your quick reply.
  
 Thats the thing, I only have 2.0 channels there.


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> Thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> Thats the thing, I only have 2.0 channels there.


 

 Then install the unlocked drivers.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> Then install the unlocked drivers.


 
  
 That seemed like a huge rabbit hole after reading a bit about it. There are no way of getting DD live from usb or coax? In the realtek manager itself?


----------



## Yethal

paulkemp said:


> That seemed like a huge rabbit hole after reading a bit about it. There are no way of getting DD live from usb or coax? In the realtek manager itself?


 

 There is but not with official realtek drivers. Install the unlocked ones and You'd be golden.


----------



## lenroot77

So I was able to demo the PS VR today at Best Buy. They had 5-6 demos, I was able to try the space ship shooter and a deep sea dive in a cage. Both were pretty cool but I found the dive demo to be more immersive. While the graphics looked pretty good and the frame rates were smooth. The actual screen resolution seemed just Ok.

There was a VR box sitting next to the ps4 two cable exiting the box to the headset. One of the cables had a dongle in which a headphones were plugged into. There seemed to be some sort of the virtual surround. The "Sony guys" running the display could not give me anything more specific than there would be VSS used with the VR Headset. 

I was told games would start out at a 20-30 dollar price point. The VR game included with the headset will have 5-6 games on it each about 2 hours long.

There definitely seems to be potential with VR technology, but this is a very early step.


----------



## rudyae86

jincuteguy said:


> $1440 HD800S is used, not new.  New HD800s is still $1700+
> 
> Also the Promo code doesnt' work, tried both.


 
 Yeah I know, sorry but I thought that by saying *Amazon Warehouse Deals *usually tells you its for used or open box items. If you have been in the deals section long enough (and spent more than enough) it shouldn't have been hard to figure out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Unless you are pretending to not figure it out so you dont spend money on some good deals........but the promo didn't work for you so I guess you got...lucky? lol


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> So I was able to demo the PS VR today at Best Buy. They had 5-6 demos, I was able to try the space ship shooter and a deep sea dive in a cage. Both were pretty cool but I found the dive demo to be more immersive. While the graphics looked pretty good and the frame rates were smooth. The actual screen resolution seemed just Ok.
> 
> There was a VR box sitting next to the ps4 two cable exiting the box to the headset. One of the cables had a dongle in which a headphones were plugged into. There seemed to be some sort of the virtual surround. The "Sony guys" running the display could not give me anything more specific than there would be VSS used with the VR Headset.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have a feeling those $20-$30 VR games are going to be overpriced demos. My question is will games like Battlefront VR and Driveclub VR be standalone or added as updates to the original games?


----------



## Evshrug

I got to play the PS VR today too! In short, it was amazing and awesome, I hope to get it one day, wedding permitting. More details here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/360_30#post_12713082


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I have a feeling those $20-$30 VR games are going to be overpriced demos. My question is will games like Battlefront VR and Driveclub VR be standalone or added as updates to the original games?



Some games (like "Until Dawn" and "Star Wars: Battlefront) will be updates to existing games, but I think many will be made-for-VR standalone games.


----------



## Yethal

I hope the second gen headsets are wireless. Htc vive is annoying as hell.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Latency is still too huge of an issue.


----------



## paulkemp

yethal said:


> There is but not with official realtek drivers. Install the unlocked ones and You'd be golden.


 
  
 I tried, and got to work briefly. I did give that option up though. Way oo much hasstle. Thanks for the tip though! I dont care THAT mouch about simulated 5.1 on pc.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I've just found out something about the Mixamp that I didn't know. Contrary to what their support has told me in the past, the stream port allegedly does output the virtual surround signal meaning that it is effectively a line out. Here's the thread I posted over on their forums (where I got this info).
  
 http://forums.astrogaming.com/index.php?threads/stream-port.270255/


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> I have a feeling those $20-$30 VR games are going to be overpriced demos. My question is will games like Battlefront VR and Driveclub VR be standalone or added as updates to the original games?




Agree #tech_demos


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> I've just found out something about the Mixamp that I didn't know. Contrary to what their support has told me in the past, the stream port allegedly does output the virtual surround signal meaning that it is effectively a line out. Here's the thread I posted over on their forums (where I got this info).
> 
> http://forums.astrogaming.com/index.php?threads/stream-port.270255/



It's noisy as hell and really quiet.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> It's noisy as hell and really quiet.


 

 More noisy than double amping?


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> It's noisy as hell and really quiet.




Is this even after playing with the levels on the PC hardware?

I've been wondering about this for a while


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Considering having heard that PSVR versions of games lowers resolution of in game assets (RE7 demo having missing text descriptions on items that you can clearly see text without VR), I already know it's gonna be as much of a waste of time and money as 3D was on the PS3 (which made game assets look muddy and washed out).

I said it once, I'll say it again: it's a gimmick pushed on to consumers far too early.

Once you have 4K screen VR at 90fps, then MAYBE it will be time. As you know, that won't be in a loooong while. VR is just too graphically demanding at a resolution good enough to not dumb down assets.

Like the Move, like the Xbox camera BS, it's all stuff that will die off, just like 3D.

If it sounds like I want it to die, it's because I do. They should be focusing on making great games, not pushing the next gimmick that is gonna die in a few years because it was poorly utilized and lacked substance. Maybe in 4-5 years, but right now, no.


----------



## Yethal

Back when I used the mixamp I had speakers plugged into this port. Had to crank them to max volume and set the vlc output to 160% in order to hear anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not to mention, not all optical outputs support more than 2 channels. The optical out on my Recon 3Di internal soundcard doesn't.


----------



## Change is Good

I just want the next Deus Ex to release. Been dying for a cyberpunk game ever since the last one. Just a little over a month left.


----------



## Arniesb

Hey guys, i have question in my mind. What do you think, if i didn't liked Wolfenstein The New Order should i still give it a try for a doom?


----------



## kellte2

arniesb said:


> Hey guys, i have question in my mind. What do you think, if i didn't liked Wolfenstein The New Order should i still give it a try for a doom?




They're not exactly the same. The new Doom is much faster paced. I loved them both, but if you're a fan of classic Doom, then the new one does it justice.


----------



## Arniesb

kellte2 said:


> They're not exactly the same. The new Doom is much faster paced. I loved them both, but if you're a fan of classic Doom, then the new one does it justice.


Ok, i am gonna try first Doom and if i liked it enough i whould buy new Doom. Thanks man


----------



## Evshrug

arniesb said:


> Ok, i am gonna try first Doom and if i liked it enough i whould buy new Doom. Thanks man




The one from the mid-90's?
I mean, the speed of the game is similar, but the first doom was very pixel-y and flat (everything was drawn with sprites instead of 3D polygons) and definitely looks like it came from 20 years ago. The new Doom is basically a series of big "arena" rooms where you shoot and kill stuff (often with Kung-fu quick-time finishing moves) while running, bouncing, and launching around. Plus, a heavy modern rock soundtrack and punchy-sounding guns. Purposefully a little light on story narrative, the game gets by mostly on atmosphere and action.

Up to you if you like it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> It's noisy as hell and really quiet.


 

 I've just had a brief look into this problem. Apparently in some (not all) cases people get a humming noise (something to do with the USB port/cable). There is a fix by means of using a ground loop isolator before plugging into the device at the end of the line, though this will do nothing to address it being quiet. Provided the amp being plugged into has low noise and plenty of head room, it should work fine.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

To all X2 owners,do they still have quality control problems that I hear so much about or have they ironed it out?


----------



## whitenoise1204

Still looking for a replacement for those COPs (see a couple pages back)

Tried various sets at local stores; Logitechs, AKGs, BOSEs, Sennheisers, Marshalls, but none really fit my comfort and audio signature requirements. They were low quality pairs anyway.

Been eyeing a Fidelio X2 pair right now, as I can get one on a huge discount with Amazon, but I heard about quality control issues too as mrkingdomhearts said.
Should I go for it? Will they fit my 7 3/4~7 5/8 sized head and bring a warm but balanced sound after some EQ?


----------



## Change is Good

You may want to ask in the X2 thread about QC issues. I don't think anyone here has bought one recently.


----------



## shuto77

If anyone is looking for a like-new Sound Blaster G5, pm me.


----------



## Yethal

Just a little bit of self-promotion.
  
 The game I've been working on for the past nine months has finally been released!
  
 I don't think many of you guys have heard of Necropolis but if you love ridiculous difficulty, cartoonish graphics and wacky humor you're gonna love this game. And if You've ever played and enjoyed Dark Souls series you'll feel right at home.
  
Link to the Steam page
  
 PC only for now, console version will be released shortly after.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Just a little bit of self-promotion.
> 
> The game I've been working on for the past nine months has finally been released!
> 
> ...




  
 I've had my eye on this since it was announced. Just waiting on the PS4 version. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Congrats!


----------



## Monty1089

Ok so this is a follow up to my previous post whereby i bought the Astro Mixamp 2011 version:

 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added/35790#post_12689604

 The mixamp arrived today ahead of schedule. Almost like 2 weeks early to Sydney, Australia

 I tested it and it's brilliant. I could not hear any hiss from the volume levels i checked. I didn't go too high as i didn't want to damage my hearing  
 I would say i went to around 60% volume by turning the volume knob towards 2pm. However i will test higher volumes later on.

 Also i compared this to my Turtle Beach DSS and seriously couldn't tell a difference in game audio. They sound the same to me. However i bought this for the chat feature which the original DSS lacks.

 I plugged a modmic 4.0 into the mixamp with an adapter and people heard me fine without any distortion or muffled voice. I could hear people fine as well.

 All in all well worth the money. I don't know how the 2013 Mixamps and onwards work as i have never tested it but this one is pretty good as well.

 Also a nice feature the 2011 mixamp has is the ability to connect multiple devices to it since it as optical, coaxial and standard RCA inputs.

 I have posted a photo below showing the 2011 mixamp and if your interested you can purchase it from ebay:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/281815550100?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&rmvSB=true


----------



## Change is Good

Mad, did you see those ebony TH-X00s? Soon as I saw the black I thought of how you love black stealthy headphones (TH-600).


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Yeah I seen those on massdrop and they look sexy as hell. 
Wonder if there worth buying over the X2.


----------



## rudyae86

Oh gawd....now I really want that Fostex TH-X00 in Ebony. Ugh, just when I bought a 980 Ti FTW.....

 Isn't it also costing $100 more though than the other TH-X00 and only 1k will be made?
  
 spending 500 dollars on a pair of headphones is kind of hard to consider, although I have spend about 1k in headphones alone already lol. Need to sell some to get a pair...


----------



## Evshrug

^ massdrop does accept PayPal


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> ^ massdrop does accept PayPal




Bruh....you are a bad influence right now....lol


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Bruh....you are a bad influence right now....lol


----------



## Evshrug

I like how you can still see the wood grain, subtly, in the ebony cups. Part of me wants to buy it just because it's limited edition and will probably rise in value, but I'm already more than enough of a collector!

What I SHOULD do is just buy XL pads for the M-100 so I could actually use them!


----------



## BubbleGumHaZe

Hi guys new to head-fi.... Need help.... I read the 1St page of envys guide which was really amazing thanks for the info you shared!. 

I bought a headset (Pdp afterglow agu.1s) absolutely terrible it felt like my head was bieng crushed it had no adjustable sides although the pads weren't as bad. I immediately returned them and lost out on the return postage cost!.
I have now ordered tritton 720+ 7.1 headset which I got from eBay for £35($46) Inc postage! Have I made a mistake? Btw I only care bout one thing and that is hearing enemy footsteps im not bothered about anything else.

Another thing is compatibility with the ps4.will the "audiophile" headphones e.g. Audio-Technica AD700 not gaming ones have 7.1 surround sound? 

Thanks and sorry if my question is dumb im new to this and have almost no knowledge when i5 comes to audio


----------



## Napalmhardcore

bubblegumhaze said:


> Hi guys new to head-fi.... Need help.... I read the 1St page of envys guide which was really amazing thanks for the info you shared!.
> 
> I bought a headset (Pdp afterglow agu.1s) absolutely terrible it felt like my head was bieng crushed it had no adjustable sides although the pads weren't as bad. I immediately returned them and lost out on the return postage cost!.
> I have now ordered tritton 720+ 7.1 headset which I got from eBay for £35($46) Inc postage! Have I made a mistake? Btw I only care bout one thing and that is hearing enemy footsteps im not bothered about anything else.
> ...


 
 I've personally not tried the Tritton, so cannot help you there.
  
 Any stereo headphone can do virtual surround provided you have a processor that is capable of it (some soundcards, some AV receivers and devices like the Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS/TAC and the unit that comes with certain headsets like the one provided with the Tritton 720+). The one caveat to that statement is that some headphones are hard to drive, so you will need to make sure the virtual surround device is capable of driving the headphones that you wish to use with it or use an amplifier after the virtual surround device (though not all devices feature a line output, meaning you'd have to double amp which isn't ideal).


----------



## rudyae86

bubblegumhaze said:


> Hi guys new to head-fi.... Need help.... I read the 1St page of envys guide which was really amazing thanks for the info you shared!.
> 
> I bought a headset (Pdp afterglow agu.1s) absolutely terrible it felt like my head was bieng crushed it had no adjustable sides although the pads weren't as bad. I immediately returned them and lost out on the return postage cost!.
> I have now ordered tritton 720+ 7.1 headset which I got from eBay for £35($46) Inc postage! Have I made a mistake? Btw I only care bout one thing and that is hearing enemy footsteps im not bothered about anything else.
> ...


 
 First of all, MLE's guide doesn't really cover Gaming Headsets for many obvious reasons. There are a few exceptions but other than that, its mostly about headphones. So as to using a headphone like Audio Technica AD700, you will also need a device that does Virtual surround sound. Such examples are Astro Mix Amp Pro , Creative Labs Recon3D, Creative Labs X7, etc. These will work with the PS4. So if all you want is to hear enemy footsteps.....in other words, doing competitive gaming, the AD700 as well as the AKG Q701, AKG K701 or K702 and even the Sennheiser HD598 are great alternatives for competitive gaming.


----------



## Change is Good

Ev, did you ever progress through Bloodborne?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Mad, did you see those ebony TH-X00s? Soon as I saw the black I thought of how you love black stealthy headphones (TH-600).




Just saw them. Definitely hnnnnnng worthy.

I'm still on my trusty HE400.

Just beat Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness a few days ago, waiting on I Am Setsuna next week.

I didn't get to finish Jotun, so probably will work on finishing... or at least progressing further this Monday. It's an incredibly easy game to play in terms of controls, so if I don't finish before I Am Setsuna releases on Tuesday, it'll be a while before I continue again.


----------



## Change is Good

I wonder if those HE-400 drivers can be removed and placed inside one of the new HE-350 frames? Some personal tweaking applied and you might have the gem you've been dying for Hifiman to release.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> I wonder if those HE-400 drivers can be removed and placed inside one of the new HE-350 frames? Some personal tweaking applied and you might have the gem you've been dying for Hifiman to release.




That's brilliant.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> That's brilliant.


 
  
 And doable, I'm sure. I'll tag @PETEREK so we can see what he thinks.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> And doable, I'm sure. I'll tag @PETEREK
> so we can see what he thinks.




Slightly off topic... 

I was reading in another thread that people who are buying the TH-X00 from Massdrop are having them sent directly to him so he could do the mod...

This might actually save me the $28 in sales tax I would pay in NJ, which would go toward the price of the mods. I'd rather give him my money than the State of NJ. Rant over.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> Slightly off topic...
> 
> I was reading in another thread that people who are buying the TH-X00 from Massdrop are having them sent directly to him so he could do the mod...
> 
> This might actually save me the $28 in sales tax I would pay in NJ, which would go toward the price of the mods. I'd rather give him my money than the State of NJ. Rant over.


 
  
 I've had two of my headphones shipped directly to him, saving me the extra shipping costs. Definitely an option he's cool with (given the heads up).


----------



## Evshrug

bubblegumhaze said:


> !.
> I have now ordered tritton 720+ 7.1 headset which I got from eBay for £35($46) Inc postage! Have I made a mistake? Btw I only care bout one thing and that is hearing enemy footsteps im not bothered about anything else.
> 
> Another thing is compatibility with the ps4.will the "audiophile" headphones e.g. Audio-Technica AD700 not gaming ones have 7.1 surround sound?




The Tritton 720+ system is fine, and that seems a decent price. I haven't heard the headset itself, but MLE tested the puck/processor. If you ended up not liking the headset, you could always use a different headphone like the AD700 or even Koss KSC75 (sometimes marketed as "Pulse") clip-ons, so no I don't think you made a mistake.

2. The base unit/puck/DSP/whatever that comes with the 720+ does the 7.1 surround processing, and you can plug any headphone into that (including "audiophile" ones).




change is good said:


> Ev, did you ever progress through Bloodborne?



I beat the boss I was stuck at, every once in a while I come back and progress. Right now I have Overwatch (which is ok, but sometimes I wish it was a little more rich), Paragon (free PS+ download), and the last few sections of FarCry 4 on rotation.




mad lust envy said:


> Just saw them. Definitely hnnnnnng worthy.
> 
> I'm still on my trusty HE400.
> 
> Just beat Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness a few days ago, waiting on I Am Setsuna next week.



How was Star Ocean?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I beat the boss I was stuck at, every once in a while I come back and progress. Right now I have Overwatch (which is ok, but sometimes I wish it was a little more rich), Paragon (free PS+ download), and the last few sections of FarCry 4 on rotation.


 
  
 I can help if you ever get back to it. I really need the extra insights, used 'em all on a boss I'm stuck on in the 'Old Hunters' expansion.
  
 I think my nephew is picking up Overwatch for his bday. We game share with each other so I'll be able to jump on if he does. At least all their post launch DLC is free.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Star Ocean was okay. A bit disappointing all things considered, but on my number scale, I'd put it at a 6.5 (my old ratings). definitely flawed, and I prefer SO4 by a large margin, which ironically, people seemed to hate (I LOVED SO4). Still, it's playable, and there's fun to be had here and there. Just... I'm a huge Star Ocean fan, and this left me feeling like this is the wrong way to go/end. Review sites drilled this game pretty hard. I wouldn't say it's as bad as they say, but yeah. 

*Guys, something interesting: London has Fallen, on Blu-Ray has a DTS headphone X option! I didn't notice until about 1/3 through the movie.

I enabled it just recently and paused to tell you guys. So rent/buy the movie if you're interested in how DTS Headphone X sounds. I turned off the surround processing on the X7, to let the embedded processing of the movie to be unhindered.

Let's see how well it works.

I sincerely hope this becomes a trend. *


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Slightly off topic...
> 
> I was reading in another thread that people who are buying the TH-X00 from Massdrop are having them sent directly to him so he could do the mod...
> 
> This might actually save me the $28 in sales tax I would pay in NJ, which would go toward the price of the mods. I'd rather give him my money than the State of NJ. Rant over.


 

 This is brilliant.


mad lust envy said:


> *Guys, something interesting: London has Fallen, on Blu-Ray has a DTS headphone X option! I didn't notice until about 1/3 through the movie.
> 
> I enabled it just recently and paused to tell you guys. So rent/buy the movie if you're interested in how DTS Headphone X sounds. I turned off the surround processing on the X7, to let the embedded processing of the movie to be unhindered.
> 
> ...


 
 IIRC Pearl Harbor had a Dolby Headphone track available on the DVD release.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It'd be great if the DTS guys are trying to really push Headphone X, so any movie under their control for audio will hopefully nowadays come with it. A man can hope.

Still watching it, but so far it sounds pretty good in terms of SQ. central channel doesn't sound distant like typical surround DSP, but whether it's the movie or not, surround cues aren't doing too much. Soundstage for the surround effects do see far out. I did miss quite a bit for the biggest action scene (I enabled it after), so I dunno if I'll get a good feel for HPX with this movie. It is undeniably better than standard headphone stereo at least. Not sure I'd choose it over just using the SBX from the X7 though. Still, seeing as it's new to me, I'll be giving it its dues as much as possible.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> *Guys, something interesting: London has Fallen, on Blu-Ray has a DTS headphone X option! I didn't notice until about 1/3 through the movie.
> 
> I enabled it just recently and paused to tell you guys. So rent/buy the movie if you're interested in how DTS Headphone X sounds. I turned off the surround processing on the X7, to let the embedded processing of the movie to be unhindered.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 I went to Amazon and check out the movie. The picture with the back cover says it does have DTS Headphone X. Pretty cool, didn't know this until you said it. Now Im going to be checking this out more often.


----------



## lenroot77

Found this list, don't know how accurate it will be.
http://www.nextgenhometheater.com/dtsx-blu-ray-movies/

I'll be curious to hear MLE's opinion on how it sounds with the hard coding on the disk?


----------



## BubbleGumHaZe

Hey so the trittons came and iv been using them I have everything setup correctly opt cable and the USB in the ps4 and have the decorder in dobly mode. However I can barely hear enemy footsteps especially in blackops 3 the other sounds make it almost impossible to locate enemies by sound. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this really the best the 720+ offers


----------



## Yethal

bubblegumhaze said:


> Hey so the trittons came and iv been using them I have everything setup correctly opt cable and the USB in the ps4 and have the decorder in dobly mode. However I can barely hear enemy footsteps especially in blackops 3 the other sounds make it almost impossible to locate enemies by sound. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this really the best the 720+ offers


 

 Set digital Output Priority to Dolby, Headphone output to Chat Only. Equip Amplify and Dead Silence in-game.


----------



## speaktobrett

I'm thinking about making all the white highlights on the headphones black(all the text).
 https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aipXii-qWiQ/maxresdefault.jpg
  

 Do you think a pen like this would do the trick?
 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Birchwood-Casey-Flat-Black-Touch-Up-Paint-Pen-Matte-Cameras-Guns-Scopes-Lenses-/181552589838


----------



## odib

Decided to give my 2011 Mixamp a make over using some sandpaper and shoe polish. It turned out pretty alright but I'm still deciding whether to change the knobs to real aluminium knobs.


----------



## Yethal

odib said:


> Decided to give my 2011 Mixamp a make over using some sandpaper and shoe polish. It turned out pretty alright but I'm still deciding whether to change the knobs to real aluminium knobs.


 

 Definitely go for aluminum knobs. And exchange the LEDs to white.


----------



## Evshrug

odib said:


> Decided to give my 2011 Mixamp a make over using some sandpaper and shoe polish. It turned out pretty alright but I'm still deciding whether to change the knobs to real aluminium knobs.



Sweet project!


----------



## Mystic Mac

odib said:


> Decided to give my 2011 Mixamp a make over using some sandpaper and shoe polish. It turned out pretty alright but I'm still deciding whether to change the knobs to real aluminium knobs.


 
 Looks good. do you disassembled it it ?


----------



## Mystic Mac

.


----------



## Mystic Mac

.


----------



## Mystic Mac

monty1089 said:


> Ok so this is a follow up to my previous post whereby i bought the Astro Mixamp 2011 version:
> 
> The mixamp arrived today ahead of schedule. Almost like 2 weeks early to Sydney, Australia
> 
> ...


 
 did they fixed the chat on this mixamp ? because i had the same version and the chat didnt worked for me 1-2 years ago.
  
 edit: i repaired my old astro mixamp 2011  and it looks like that sony realy fixed the chat problem. now im thinking of selling my new mixamp pro. does someone of you noticed any difference in soundquality between these two mixamps ?


----------



## Mystic Mac

odib said:


> Decided to give my 2011 Mixamp a make over using some sandpaper and shoe polish. It turned out pretty alright but I'm still deciding whether to change the knobs to real aluminium knobs.


 
 do you disassembled the mixamp ?


----------



## kellte2

mystic mac said:


> did they fixed the chat on this mixamp ? because i had the same version and the chat didnt worked for me 1-2 years ago.
> 
> edit: i repaired my old astro mixamp 2011  and it looks like that sony realy fixed the chat problem. now im thinking of selling my new mixamp pro. does someone of you noticed any difference in soundquality between these two mixamps ?




I still think theres a problem with the mixamp noisegate and the ps4 noisegate. I believe someone posted earlier about how you can work around it, but my friends complained to me that my mic was hard to hear while using the mixamp and ps4. I ended up going to the x7 for a variety of reasons, but the chat quality is better there. YMMV


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I'm curious, what do you guys use for your handhelds like the vita and 3ds? 
I ordered the xiaomi piston 3 because I feel my 558s are too bulky.


----------



## Change is Good

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I'm curious, what do you guys use for your handhelds like the vita and 3ds?
> I ordered the xiaomi piston 3 because I feel my 558s are too bulky.




XBA-H3 and headphone out


----------



## odib

yethal said:


> Definitely go for aluminum knobs. And exchange the LEDs to white.




I don't know if I'll be able to change the LEDs since my soldering skills aren't that great.




mystic mac said:


> Looks good. do you [COLOR=000000]disassembled[/COLOR] it it ?




Yes I disassembled the Mixamp. I removed the volume knob, then nuts and lastly the screws on the circuit board. It was all pretty easy actually.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

As someone that has participated in this thread on and off for a while now, I've made a purchase that somewhat goes against the flow. I've taken my Modmic off of my AKG K240 Mkiis, restoring their status as headphones and bought myself a pair of HyperX Cloud 2s.
  
 "But Napalm, why would you do such a thing?" I hear you ask. There are a few reasons.
  
 Firstly, I personally didn't like the look of the pairing of Modmic and my AKGs (not that I care how I look, but I care how the headphones look themselves. Yes, I know I'm weird). I think it looks nice with some headphones, but with how I had to position the Modmic in relation to the headphone cable, it just looked a bit messy. Also, the mic holder had become partially unstuck, so it seemed like a good time to remove it.
  
 Secondly, my journey with headphones is far from complete. I have other headphones I wish to buy in future and am still contemplating what route I will take when it comes to a mic to pair with them, so in the meantime I need a headset. I also like the convenience of a dedicated headset.
  
 I also think it is important to periodically check to see that you aren't just making sweeping statements like "gaming headsets suck" with no experience of contemporary offerings. I've read comments from some people that compare  the HyerX Cloud 2 favourably to other more expensive dedicated headphones and they have received pretty much universal acclaim, so curiosity got the better of me.
  
 I'm still breaking in the Cloud 2s and so will reserve judgement. What I will say though is that when I moved from my old Turtle Beach PX21 headset to the AKGs, it was very obvious that I had upgraded. With the Cloud 2, it is more a case of give and take.


----------



## Change is Good

SHP9500 killer? Description compares it to the X1, and looks Boompro compatible.

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/lasmex-l-85-headphones


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> I'm curious, what do you guys use for your handhelds like the vita and 3ds?
> I ordered the xiaomi piston 3 because I feel my 558s are too bulky.



Sometimes I wish I had a handheld besides my phone... But for my phone, I also like IEMs (RHA S500i or my CIEMs by CustomArt).




change is good said:


> SHP9500 killer? Description compares it to the X1, and looks Boompro compatible.
> 
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/lasmex-l-85-headphones



At the moment I'm trying to see this, Massdrop is undergoing maintenance. I'll check it out later!

I said that I tried and liked the SPH9500, right? Got lucky enough that a friend bought a pair... And I also filmed his Mixamp Pro setup.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Sometimes I wish I had a handheld besides my phone... But for my phone, I also like IEMs (RHA S500i or my CIEMs by CustomArt).
> At the moment I'm trying to see this, Massdrop is undergoing maintenance. I'll check it out later!
> 
> I said that I tried and liked the SPH9500, right? Got lucky enough that a friend bought a pair... And I also filmed his Mixamp Pro setup.




Yeah I just had to sell mine, along with the CAL woodies. Needed the funds. Very sad to see it go, but oh well. 

I have my eyes on those I linked from MD, but it will be a little while until I can buy anything else. I find it interesting that they have an X1 kind of look with L2 portability. Never heard of the manufacturer, though, and no impressions are to be found yet.


----------



## AxelCloris

Those headphones you linked have too many yellow flags for my tastes. I'd personally wait until the first or even second wave of folks have purchased them and started posting impressions before jumping.


----------



## Change is Good

Only questions for me would be the sound quality, soundstage, and if the pads could be switched. Open headphones, sweet price point, assumed sound signature (X1 like?), Boombro compatible, and portability are what intrigues me for gaming. Portability is the only thing I was missing on my modded 9500, which made me not mind selling it.


----------



## Evshrug

Finally got to see the headphones Change was talking about. Definitely look X1-inspired, at least aesthetically. Who knows what Lasmex's interpretation of "natural" sounds like? I thought the X1 didn't sound natural (but it was fun!), and more to the point people widely disagree what sounds "natural," so I can't guess what they'll sound like. Probably competent.

The pleather pads may or may not bother me. I've had mostly bad experiences with leather-like padding getting sticky, BUT I have tried softer, squishier pads (Oppo PM-3, Creative Aurvana Platinum, ZMF standard and lambskin pads, MrSpeakers Ether) which I liked alright and I could see the hygienic/durability benefits. I still prefer velour though, for example I used all the pads of the Oppo PM-2 for testing, but long term and simply for enjoyment I tended to stick to the very comfortable Velour pads there.


----------



## Change is Good

I'd consider it as a replacement to my 9500 for gaming, but only if I could change the pads. Velours are a must for long sessions.

Until then I'll be using the 400i a lot more. Not necessarily a bad thing I guess haha!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lenroot77 said:


> Found this list, don't know how accurate it will be.
> http://www.nextgenhometheater.com/dtsx-blu-ray-movies/
> 
> I'll be curious to hear MLE's opinion on how it sounds with the hard coding on the disk?




No lie, I rented multiple of those movies on that list, and I didn't even bother checking for this. I left it on default. :'(


----------



## Evshrug

You live and you learn, now it should be easy for you to try it going forward if you want!




change is good said:


> I'd consider it as a replacement to my 9500 for gaming, but only if I could change the pads. Velours are a must for long sessions.
> 
> Until then I'll be using the 400i a lot more. Not necessarily a bad thing I guess haha!




Glad you still have a headphone, at least! And the HE400i is no chump!


----------



## Change is Good

TH-X00 an 400i for now. By the tame I get some extra mulah I'd still like a dedicated budget gaming headphone to limit the wear and tear on the big boys. Hopefully the Lasmex gets good reviews.


----------



## hifihp

change is good said:


> Only questions for me would be the sound quality, soundstage, and if the pads could be switched. Open headphones, sweet price point, assumed sound signature (X1 like?), Boombro compatible, and portability are what intrigues me for gaming. Portability is the only thing I was missing on my modded 9500, which made me not mind selling it.


 
 What mod you did on ur 9500?


----------



## Change is Good

hifihp said:


> What mod you did on ur 9500?


 
  
 Nothing major. Just *this one *for easy pad rolling.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Right now I'm satisfied with my hd558s. 
Ordering a pair of xiaomi piston 3s for my portables, will probably upgrade to a set of planars or the X2 after I get more stable though.


----------



## shuto77

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Right now I'm satisfied with my hd558s.
> Ordering a pair of xiaomi piston 3s for my portables, will probably upgrade to a set of planars or the X2 after I get more stable though.




I own the Piston 3s; they're quite an achievement for ~$15, but they are pretty V-shaped, with recessed mids. You might want to look at something more neutral for gaming. But you probably won't do better unless you bump up your budget a bit.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

shuto77 said:


> I own the Piston 3s; they're quite an achievement for ~$15, but they are pretty V-shaped, with recessed mids. You might want to look at something more neutral for gaming. But you probably won't do better unless you bump up your budget a bit.


$15? I paid $26 for mine. 
I thought the piston 3s where more neutral in comparison to the piston 2s and hybrids. 

Also are foam tips worth the investment? I don't like how silicone feels in my ears.


----------



## shuto77

mrkingdomhearts said:


> $15? I paid $26 for mine.
> I thought the piston 3s where more neutral in comparison to the piston 2s and hybrids.
> 
> Also are foam tips worth the investment? I don't like how silicone feels in my ears.




I'm not the best person to ask about foam tips - I have trouble with them. The other thing to note is that the stock tips on Piston 3s are junk: Super soft, not durable and difficult to get a good seal with. 

Sony hybrid tips are often recommended, but maybe you should ask in the piston 3 thread, as most of us like over-ears for gaming, so we have less collective knowledge about budge iems here. 

Good luck!


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

shuto77 said:


> I'm not the best person to ask about foam tips - I have trouble with them. The other thing to note is that the stock tips on Piston 3s are junk: Super soft, not durable and difficult to get a good seal with.
> 
> Sony hybrid tips are often recommended, but maybe you should ask in the piston 3 thread, as most of us like over-ears for gaming, so we have less collective knowledge about budge iems here.
> 
> Good luck!


 Okay thanks, one more thing how do you wear your pistons, wrapped around your ear or normal?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

shuto77 said:


> most of us like over-ears for gaming


 
 I tried a pair of cheap in ears a couple of days ago. With the Mixamp, I found the directional cues were very good. I'm just not a fan of these particular earphones (Panasonic RP-TCM125).
  
 I was looking for something cheap and some site had reviewed them as their best budget in ear. The Amazon (UK) reviews seemed to be unanimously positive (at the time) regarding the sound quality (a couple of complaints about the durability/build quality though) so I took the plunge. I don't know if mine are defective (though I'm thinking not as the sound is the same in both ears) but I find the bass to be atrociously bad. Not the amount of bass, but it completely lacks any definition. For example, a bass line that you'd describe vocally as bom bom bom just becomes mmm mmm mmm. The only other set of in ears I've tried were the Skullcandy Jibs that I picked up at an airport for about £7 (as I don't own any on ears and the ear buds I got with my PSP were garbage). Despite not being as nice in the mids, the bass was so much better. Kind of wish I'd not given them to my brother.
  
 I'd like to try in ears again but I don't know what to go for. Amazon UK reviews seem to completely contradict the majority of sources dedicated to headphone reviews. In fact, the one brand that gets consistently (very) good reviews is Betron. I can find no info about them from any reputable sources and a post I made here on Head-Fi got no replies when I asked if anyone had heard of them/tried them. Seems weird that a company that appears to be dominating in the amount and the positivity of their reviews is not acknowledged in the slightest by any sites dedicated to audio (even if just to debunk the notion that they are any good). Personally, I'm not keen on the idea of purchasing something from a brand that I've never heard of with no information about them from a respectable source.


----------



## Change is Good

For gaming, BA IEMs are better suited because of the multiple drivers being used.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> For gaming, BA IEMs are better suited because of the multiple drivers being used.


 

 I'd like to check out the Shure BA IEMs one day but they're pretty expensive and I'm not a rich man.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> I'd like to check out the Shure BA IEMs one day but they're pretty expensive and I'm not a rich man.


 
  
 Not all are ridiculously priced like the 846. Plenty in the mid tier range to choose from.


----------



## shuto77

napalmhardcore said:


> I tried a pair of cheap in ears a couple of days ago. With the Mixamp, I found the directional cues were very good. I'm just not a fan of these particular earphones (Panasonic RP-TCM125).
> 
> I was looking for something cheap and some site had reviewed them as their best budget in ear. The Amazon (UK) reviews seemed to be unanimously positive (at the time) regarding the sound quality (a couple of complaints about the durability/build quality though) so I took the plunge. I don't know if mine are defective (though I'm thinking not as the sound is the same in both ears) but I find the bass to be atrociously bad. Not the amount of bass, but it completely lacks any definition. For example, a bass line that you'd describe vocally as bom bom bom just becomes mmm mmm mmm. The only other set of in ears I've tried were the Skullcandy Jibs that I picked up at an airport for about £7 (as I don't own any on ears and the ear buds I got with my PSP were garbage). Despite not being as nice in the mids, the bass was so much better. Kind of wish I'd not given them to my brother.
> 
> I'd like to try in ears again but I don't know what to go for. Amazon UK reviews seem to completely contradict the majority of sources dedicated to headphone reviews. In fact, the one brand that gets consistently (very) good reviews is Betron. I can find no info about them from any reputable sources and a post I made here on Head-Fi got no replies when I asked if anyone had heard of them/tried them. Seems weird that a company that appears to be dominating in the amount and the positivity of their reviews is not acknowledged in the slightest by any sites dedicated to audio (even if just to debunk the notion that they are any good). Personally, I'm not keen on the idea of purchasing something from a brand that I've never heard of with no information about them from a respectable source.




A few people around here use iems for gaming. One of the better bets would be the Fiio Ex1, a re-badged DUNU Titan 1. These companies may seem unfamiliar; if so, check out reviews from ljokerl, @twister6 and clieos, all of whom are well-regarded reviewers on HeadFi, who check out a lot of great stuff. Good luck!


----------



## shuto77

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Okay thanks, one more thing how do you wear your pistons, wrapped around your ear or normal?




I usually prefer to wear iems over ear, but with the Pistons, I wear them straight-down, due to the shape and because they don't insert deeply into my ear canals. Some designs work better for around-the-ear vs straight-down, and I think the Pistons were designed to be worn straight-down.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

shuto77 said:


> A few people around here use iems for gaming. One of the better bets would be the Fiio Ex1, a re-badged DUNU Titan 1. These companies may seem unfamiliar; if so, check out reviews from ljokerl, @twister6 and clieos, all of whom are well-regarded reviewers on HeadFi, who check out a lot of great stuff. Good luck!


 

 I was researching the EX1s a few days ago and funnily enough they're at the top of my list currently. Thing is, with IEMs I'm really looking for an end game solution (whereas with headphones I'm a little more interested in experimenting), so I don't know whether it would be better to make the jump straight to BAs. If I did get the EX1s, knowing what I'm like I'd be left wondering how much of a difference there is between BAs and dynamics.
  
 While my experience thus far doesn't fairly represent dynamics (as I've been using cheap ones), BA is really where most people eventually end up when they want to know how good IEMs can sound. So it may be wiser for me to resist the temptation of the EX1s and wait until I can afford something that will satisfy me long term.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> I was researching the EX1s a few days ago and funnily enough they're at the top of my list currently. Thing is, with IEMs I'm really looking for an end game solution (whereas with headphones I'm a little more interested in experimenting), so I don't know whether it would be better to make the jump straight to BAs. If I did get the EX1s, knowing what I'm like I'd be left wondering how much of a difference there is between BAs and dynamics.
> 
> While my experience thus far doesn't fairly represent dynamics (as I've been using cheap ones), BA is really where most people eventually end up when they want to know how good IEMs can sound. So it may be wiser for me to resist the temptation of the EX1s and wait until I can afford something that will satisfy me long term.




I would recommend getting hybrids like the Sony XBA-H3/A3 (my choice) or JVC FX-850. They come with 2 BA drivers and one dynamic, keeping that bass decay that makes dynamics so lovely. They can be found for under $200 these days.

Full blown BA drivers have a fast tuning sound similar to full size planars. Ones with 3-4 drivers are reasonably priced. It's when you get to 5+ that things get a bit too expensive.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> I would recommend getting hybrids like the Sony XBA-H3/A3 (my choice) or JVC FX-850. They come with 2 BA drivers and one dynamic, keeping that bass decay that makes dynamics so lovely. They can be found for under $200 these days.
> 
> Full blown BA drivers have a fast tuning sound similar to full size planars. Ones with 3-4 drivers are reasonably priced. It's when you get to 5+ that things get a bit too expensive.


 

 My experience with headphones in general is pretty limited. I've not tried planars (though I'd like to one day) so I cannot relate. One of the bad things about starting out with audio gear (and not having a lot of money) is that I don't know what I like yet and don't know how what I'm listening to measures up in the grand scheme of things.
  
 I see reviews from people on places like Amazon where they say "this is my first pair of decent headphones" and then proceed to give a review like they are Tyll Hertsens. I personally have the good sense to realise that what I know is that I know very little. While statements like I said earlier about directional cues being good don't require me to have experience (it sounded like the enemy was coming from a particular direction and that's where they appeared) my ability to judge other factors can only be done in relation to what I've already tried, which currently isn't a lot.


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> My experience with headphones in general is pretty limited. I've not tried planars (though I'd like to one day) so I cannot relate. One of the bad things about starting out with audio gear (and not having a lot of money) is that I don't know what I like yet and don't know how what I'm listening to measures up in the grand scheme of things.


 
  
 Start where you feel comfortable, and gradually work from there. I started my headphone journey with the AD700 and M50. The SE215 was my first pair of IEMs that weren't 'cheap earbuds.'


----------



## Change is Good

I guess waiting a year for the PS4 version wasn't so bad, after all...
  
 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-ps4-release-date-confirmed/1100-6441935/


----------



## Evshrug

Shweet!

Also, I have the UFO-saucer looking FiiO EX1. Sounds pretty decent, but I can't get used to them because my ears are picky and I can't stand any of the silicone eartip sizes. I should just get some Comply Foamies or something. Only silicone tips I've liked so far, for context, are the 3-flange Etymotics... Which is odd, because I usually get better comfort from the smallest olive-shaped silicone tips.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

What was everyone's setup for games prior to discovering head fi? 
For me I used to have a turtle beach px21 then a steelseries Siberia V2 after that one broke.


----------



## Change is Good

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What was everyone's setup for games prior to discovering head fi?
> For me I used to have a turtle beach px21 then a steelseries Siberia V2 after that one broke.


 
  
 My TV speakers. I discovered head-fi when I returned a PS3 headset that didn't work.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What was everyone's setup for games prior to discovering head fi?
> For me I used to have a turtle beach px21 then a steelseries Siberia V2 after that one broke.


 

 In the old days I used (CRT) TV speakers (my interest in quality audio didn't develop until my late 20s). Later I used some old PC speakers my brother got in the late 90s with our first PC (not counting the Amiga). Then I got a small Logitech 2.1 system, then got the PX21 headset and DSS2, then I got the AKG K240 Mkiis, a Modmic and a Mixamp. I got a Yamaha Receiver that I first paired up with a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 10.0s. Recently I got a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2s and last week I got the Cloud ii headset (I go into my reasons a page or two back).
  
 Edit: I discovered Head Fi around the time I got my AKGs I think.


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What was everyone's setup for games prior to discovering head fi?
> For me I used to have a turtle beach px21 then a steelseries Siberia V2 after that one broke.




This would probably be a fun thread to create.

Personally, I used a really badly set up Stereo system in my mom's basement. I have no idea what speakers they were, but they were about the size of those used in the Bose demos "look how huge!" One of them was sideways and right under the TV, the other was about 15 feet off to the right in a tunnel-like room.

In college, I just played at friend's dorms or played on my laptop with a pair of Sony desktop speakers, which also had a headphone jack that I used with the original earbuds that came with the 2nd an 5th gen iPods. When I looked for well-reviewed headphones, the places I looked for reviews was at Macworld and Headroom.com. Eventually I got a pair of Sennheiser PX-100 (I think 2008?). When I got my 360, I was looking up speaker-like headphones (most soundstage and comfort) and how to connect the 360 to headphones, searching around helped me discover Head-Fi, this thread, AD700, an RCA to 3.5mm adapter, and a FiiO E5.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

evshrug said:


> This would probably be a fun thread to create.
> 
> Personally, I used a really badly set up Stereo system in my mom's basement. I have no idea what speakers they were, but they were about the size of those used in the Bose demos "look how huge!" One of them was sideways and right under the TV, the other was about 15 feet off to the right in a tunnel-like room.
> 
> In college, I just played at friend's dorms or played on my laptop with a pair of Sony desktop speakers, which also had a headphone jack that I used with the original earbuds that came with the 2nd an 5th gen iPods. When I looked for well-reviewed headphones, the places I looked for reviews was at Macworld and Headroom.com. Eventually I got a pair of Sennheiser PX-100 (I think 2008?). When I got my 360, I was looking up speaker-like headphones (most soundstage and comfort) and how to connect the 360 to headphones, searching around helped me discover Head-Fi, this thread, AD700, an RCA to 3.5mm adapter, and a FiiO E5.


If there isn't then maybe one should be made. 
After my Siberias cable got shorted I decided to look around for headphones with a detachable cable, discovered head fi and it really opened my eyes on to what's out there.
After some searching I decided to get my HD 558s (used) and still rocking them 4 years later.


----------



## Change is Good

No need for a new thread if we're talking about our first gaming setups. It's been quite refreshing chatting about different related topics in here.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Finally got to see the headphones Change was talking about. Definitely look X1-inspired, at least aesthetically. Who knows what Lasmex's interpretation of "natural" sounds like? I thought the X1 didn't sound natural (but it was fun!), and more to the point people widely disagree what sounds "natural," so I can't guess what they'll sound like. Probably competent.
> 
> The pleather pads may or may not bother me. I've had mostly bad experiences with leather-like padding getting sticky, BUT I have tried softer, squishier pads (Oppo PM-3, Creative Aurvana Platinum, ZMF standard and lambskin pads, MrSpeakers Ether) which I liked alright and I could see the hygienic/durability benefits. I still prefer velour though, for example I used all the pads of the Oppo PM-2 for testing, but long term and simply for enjoyment I tended to stick to the very comfortable Velour pads there.


 
 What headphones are these Evshrug?


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> No need for a new thread if we're talking about our first gaming setups. It's been quite refreshing chatting about different related topics in here.



Totally agree that it was a refreshing and related topic, and I also rarely stray from the 10 threads I'm already subscribed to... I'm just saying it's such a fun nostalgic topic that it'll be a shame when it gets buried.



rudyae86 said:


> What headphones are these Evshrug?



The ones Change was talking about? That look like X1's? They're "Lasmex" brand and a current drop on Massdrop.


----------



## Yethal

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What was everyone's setup for games prior to discovering head fi?
> For me I used to have a turtle beach px21 then a steelseries Siberia V2 after that one broke.



Steelseries 5hv2 connected to RCA>3.5mm adapter adapter into the rca from my ps3. And before that I didn't even use headphones, like at all. I discovered Head-fi by accident while watching one of LevelCap videos and he was talking about how AD700 is the best competitive headphone and linked to this thread. I came here out of curiosity and decided to stay. Happiest accident of my life.


----------



## Evshrug

LevelCap? Who's that?
(Honestly, sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't quite remember any of his videos... Watching a lot of MXR lately)


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> What headphones are these Evshrug?







evshrug said:


> Totally agree that it was a refreshing and related topic, and I also rarely stray from the 10 threads I'm already subscribed to... I'm just saying it's such a fun nostalgic topic that it'll be a shame when it gets buried.
> The ones Change was talking about? That look like X1's? They're "Lasmex" brand and a current drop on Massdrop.




Yes, Rudy! The Lasmex that is currently on MD for $100. We need someone to take one for the team!


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Yes, Rudy! The Lasmex that is currently on MD for $100. We need someone to take one for the team!


 
 Hey, hey, hey....do I look like a Bank to you?
  
 (Maybe I do lol)
  
 Hmmm I am intrigued by these headphones......
  
  


evshrug said:


> LevelCap? Who's that?
> (Honestly, sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't quite remember any of his videos... Watching a lot of MXR lately)


 
 I take it you aren't a Battlefield player...if you were then you would know who he is lol. Well he plays other games but he is known mainly for BF3, BF4 and other latest BF games. He is very "technical" when it comes to explaining weapons and strategies for BF games.


----------



## arandomguy

Anyone know how well virtual surround solutions from Asus motherboards (Sonic Studio II) and MSI motherboards (Nahimic) compare to that offered by Creative xfi MB3 (SBX) or others (Dolby, Razer, etc)?


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Hey, hey, hey....do I look like a Bank to you?
> 
> (Maybe I do lol)
> 
> ...




I just hope we get some impressions somewhere once they start rolling out. Only 6 buyers at the moment, though, with one day left.

I play BF and never heard of this guy. Then again I don't do much gameplay watching on YouTube unless it's a game I never heard of and am interested in.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Anyone here in the market for a vintage Stax Lambda setup, perchance?
  


mad lust envy said:


> Considering having heard that PSVR versions of games lowers resolution of in game assets (RE7 demo having missing text descriptions on items that you can clearly see text without VR), I already know it's gonna be as much of a waste of time and money as 3D was on the PS3 (which made game assets look muddy and washed out).
> 
> I said it once, I'll say it again: it's a gimmick pushed on to consumers far too early.
> 
> ...


 
 I *don't* want VR to die off. That puts us at odds.
  
 Here's the thing: I've been waiting _decades_ for it to get to this point since the day someone put a Forte VFX1 on my head to play Quake.
  
 It's the best damn thing for vehicle simulators of any kind. Nothing puts you in the cockpit quite like VR; TrackIR doesn't even come close. Everything has depth, everything has scale, and your head-tracking doesn't have to be entirely compressed to fit within the view of an IR camera and your view of a fixed monitor.
  
 Seriously, I don't want to go back to a monitor for Elite Dangerous or DCS. It's that good, and DCS even has a few aircraft with helmet-mounted sights for locking up missiles, which is a hell of a lot more convenient to use with VR. That's not a gimmick - it's immersion, maybe even a competitive advantage.
  
 But even I can see the flaws. Limited resolution, drawbacks in current optical lens technology ("god rays" or chromatic aberration and out-of-focus edges, pick your poison), the fact that the Rift and Vive already require a powerful PC to keep up with dual 1080x1200 at 90 Hz while the PSVR is gimped with weak PS4 hardware that necessitates the downgrades you mention, limited FOV that has you feeling like you're wearing blinders... there's plenty of room for improvement. I just consider it good enough for now while we wait for the next generation.
  
 If it doesn't get past the early adopter stage now, though, it won't ever get to see that improvement, maybe unless you're a wealthy military contractor or something of that nature.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> I take it you aren't a Battlefield player...if you were then you would know who he is lol. Well he plays other games but he is known mainly for BF3, BF4 and other latest BF games. He is very "technical" when it comes to explaining weapons and strategies for BF games.



I bought BF3 for PC and 360, BF4 for PS4, but each time it only held my attention for about a month. I think I have watched some LevelCap videos actually in the BF3 days, but I couldn't recount anything memorable from them... Most of the BF3 videos I watched were about derping around or trolling bad players. Oh, and that strawhat-something gamer who is really good with the fighter jets. And one or two videos of people jumping out of a flying plane, blowing something up with an RPG, and somehow landing back inside the jet before it crashes.




arandomguy said:


> Anyone know how well virtual surround solutions from Asus motherboards (Sonic Studio II) and MSI motherboards (Nahimic) compare to that offered by Creative xfi MB3 (SBX) or others (Dolby, Razer, etc)?



My Gigabyte motherboard didn't come with its own virtual surround, I think. I've heard some weak surround processing (Razer, Silent Cinema) and good surround processing (SBX, Dolby, Cirrus Logic), and weak processing isn't even worth bothering to use. If you try the processing and it doesn't seem easy to distinguish front/back placement, then at least you can always buy X-Fi MB3 (or, better yet, a dedicated sound processor like an U3, Omni 5.1, or E5) after the fact to get good surround.




namelesspfg said:


> Anyone here in the market for a vintage Stax Lambda setup, perchance?
> 
> I *don't* want VR to die off. That puts us at odds.
> 
> ...




Having tried the 120 Hz refresh rate of the PS VR, the visual immersion available in HMDs is more exciting to me than +1080p detail. Personal opinion, and it's interesting to me that yet again you, me, and Mad take different views on this – I think that is overall a good thing for the community. Mad wants more resolution, more frames per second, (big tv screens?) and as simple/casual a setup as possible (sit on the couch, pick up a gamepad, press power). You and I are willing to trade a little setup complexity for immersion, the sense of being present in the game world, but I'm assuming you'd like an experience that pushes the bleeding edge while I'm just happy to be there. We cover the gamut: casual/couch gaming, mid, and high end immersion preferences. Of course, we'd all like some future-rig where we get it all at an affordable price, haha... Though I will contend, by the time there is a wireless 90fps 4K HMD with Zeiss optics, there will also be even higher-detailed options for traditional flatscreens. But not really new features...

Some games are going to be better suited to 2D panels (I have a 1080p monitor and a 720p TV) and just wouldn't translate well to immersion, but games designed for immersion in the first place can create a totally different experience from a TV. Traditional castlevania/side scroller/2D fighting button combo games are a few genres off the top of my head where I wouldn't bother with VR and just play on the monitor I already have. But even with this current gen of PS VR/Occulus/Vive, we can get a better sense of being present in the game, whether that is being immersed in a cockpit/driver's seat with better awareness of opponents, new simulation-type games (like Job Simulator), exploring in an RPG (I'd like an Elder-Scrolls type of game in VR!), solving 3-D puzzles (with controllers like the Move, Vive's dual sticks, and the new controllers coming out for the Occulus), 3D platforming games (better sense of depth), sports games (not games where you control a whole team, think more like baseball, tennis, skiing, archery, dodgeball...), or maybe even 3D RTS games where you can accurately select and push units while pressing command buttons.

Furthermore, I think the new experience is "ready." Would a 4K, 90fps, 120hz, 100° FOV Head Mounted Display improve the experience of, say, a first person Pokémon game with a big cartoon world to explore, look for hidden monsters/collectibles, and motion controls for throwing Pokéballs and selecting context-specific commands/buttons? Is it too graphically demanding to simulate the scale and distance in an asteroid belt as you fly around? Should we have to wait 4-5 years for the tech to mature before we can emulate cocking and aiming an arrow at a satanic goat? The conclusion I'm leading everyone toward is that there is new gaming experiences on the horizon, and the visual fidelity will do little to limit creative uses of this new way to visually interact.

That said, there is a fourth perspective, which another friend (and probably my mother) hold: by putting on a mask, some headphones, virtual touch controllers (whether a gamepad or sticks), you are cutting off almost all your senses from the real world. I think as with all tech a person could use VR in an unhealthy way, but without quoting him directly it's like just using VR at all is a big F.U. to real life. He wasn't talking Matrix/Sword Art Online external force controlling your life kind of thing, but rather that using VR goes to far into choosing to ignore your friends or the baby crying in need or going out with friends for exercise and adventure and furthering your life. I definitely think he has a point there worth mentioning, but to me it's more of a caution... because I've personally long ago come to terms with taking a break from reality by consuming literature, movies, plays, videogames, and I already limit my time with those pursuits and often forget about the world for awhile while doing them. Would I pay any less attention to my Fiancée than I do now at 11:30 pm, in a different room, with the door shut? Am I missing out on any outdoor activities at that time? Probably not many safe ones that still make it easy for me to go to work the next mid-morning. But yeah, I don't want to be completely lost in it, either, and it's good to keep in mind. I like that there are games specifically intended for party-play on the PS VR where one person uses the HMD and the other players interact with a TV, but even so it will primarily be for single-player and it will be important for the player to be able to break immersion at appropriate times.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I just hope we get some impressions somewhere once they start rolling out. Only 6 buyers at the moment, though, with one day left.
> 
> I play BF and never heard of this guy. Then again I don't do much gameplay watching on YouTube unless it's a game I never heard of and am interested in.




Yeah...I wanted to pull the trigger on them but they are practically new, not really much info is what they say in the discussion thread. So it dodnt really motivate me to purchase a pair.

Yeah, I should have mention that if unless you watch a lot of youtube videos, especially about games...they I wouldnt be surprised you dont know who levelcap is. There are many other youtubers who play BF games religiously but so far levelcap is one of the Top youtubers for that.

I cant type erggh...on my phone.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah Rudy,
I wish it was easy to add words to dictionary on a phone like it is on a PC... but it automatically gets added if you type it enough and cancel the autocorrect, lol!

-----
I'm probably about to get some flack on the Deals thread for my post XD


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Having tried the 120 Hz refresh rate of the PS VR, the visual immersion available in HMDs is more exciting to me than +1080p detail. Personal opinion, and it's interesting to me that yet again you, me, and Mad take different views on this – I think that is overall a good thing for the community. Mad wants more resolution, more frames per second, (big tv screens?) and as simple/casual a setup as possible (sit on the couch, pick up a gamepad, press power). You and I are willing to trade a little setup complexity for immersion, the sense of being present in the game world, but I'm assuming you'd like an experience that pushes the bleeding edge while I'm just happy to be there. We cover the gamut: casual/couch gaming, mid, and high end immersion preferences. Of course, we'd all like some future-rig where we get it all at an affordable price, haha... Though I will contend, by the time there is a wireless 90fps 4K HMD with Zeiss optics, there will also be even higher-detailed options for traditional flatscreens. But not really new features...
> 
> Some games are going to be better suited to 2D panels (I have a 1080p monitor and a 720p TV) and just wouldn't translate well to immersion, but games designed for immersion in the first place can create a totally different experience from a TV. Traditional castlevania/side scroller/2D fighting button combo games are a few genres off the top of my head where I wouldn't bother with VR and just play on the monitor I already have. But even with this current gen of PS VR/Occulus/Vive, we can get a better sense of being present in the game, whether that is being immersed in a cockpit/driver's seat with better awareness of opponents, new simulation-type games (like Job Simulator), exploring in an RPG (I'd like an Elder-Scrolls type of game in VR!), solving 3-D puzzles (with controllers like the Move, Vive's dual sticks, and the new controllers coming out for the Occulus), 3D platforming games (better sense of depth), sports games (not games where you control a whole team, think more like baseball, tennis, skiing, archery, dodgeball...), or maybe even 3D RTS games where you can accurately select and push units while pressing command buttons.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You're right - I like to be on the bleeding edge, at least as much as my wallet permits. That alone is a limiting factor for actually staying on the bleeding edge, but it gives me something to save up for, at least. And even if it's certainly not bleeding edge hardware by today's standards, it's all too easy to take my i7-4770K/GTX 980 system for granted, which has the power to run these things smoothly in the first place.
  
 I do like convenience, though. It's partly why I'm starting to gravitate toward this old Sennheiser PC360 I scored on the cheap (built-in mic mute and volume controls!), and it's also why I like that the Rift CV1 is pretty much a put-on-and-play HMD with built-in headphones that are surprisingly good. It's one less thing to put on or take off.
  
 While VR HMDs certainly aren't suitable for everything (especially not shared-screen multiplayer!), what they ARE suitable for is something they totally excel at. There's also software like Virtual Desktop and BigScreen that gives us a potential glimpse into a monitor-less future where we can be surrounded by as much virtual desktop space as we want (virtual IMAX, anyone?) and computer hardware allows for, but the current Rift CV1 and Vive are just too low-resolution for me to go about retiring conventional monitors. That's where we really need to start getting into the 4K/8K per eye range.
  
 There's also the potential for VR to improve things that aren't games, most notably content creation. Go look at Tilt Brush or Oculus Medium; these things highlight what you can do in a 3D space when you finally have a native 3D interface, display and input alike, instead of a 2D monitor with a 2D mouse.
  
 As for what you said about isolating yourself from the real world, yes, that could be a problem for all the reasons you mentioned and then some.
  
 On the other hand, some of us WANT to shut out mundane reality for a bit of refreshing escapism, prefer to live single, and nothing says that you can't socialize in VR. If anything, there's a lot of social VR apps and services popping up ever since the Note 4 Gear VR was a thing, just for holding conversations and watching video together and that sorta thing, to say nothing of all the multiplayer games that already exist and don't necessarily require all participants to own a VR HMD just to play them.


----------



## Evshrug

Agreed!
And your system's more beefy than mine... Still rocking an i3 3.3Ghz/GTX 660! Yours looks like a supercomputer from my perspective 

I definitely want some escapism too... It's almost the point of a most entertainment, right? Add a little drama and adventure? Of course, I've had moderation drilled into me my whole life, and honestly I could understand how bad it would SUUUUUCK to actually have to fight giants or get shot at in real life, but it's fun when it doesn't actually hurt and you can turn it off whenever you like.

Nameless PFG, do you have a Rift CV1 already? Did you read my impressions of PS VR?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I personally am pro VR. I must admit that I am concerned about the success of this attempt to bring VR to the masses. While certain genres like vehicle simulation (I'm a big fan of racing sims) are inherently suited to VR, there has to be a killer app that appeals to core gamers in general.
  
 Some people are cynical about VR and see it as a gimmick/fad. Sadly, many of the current experiences on VR are very gimmicky in nature. What is really needed is a game that is good in its own right and makes good use of VR as opposed to trying to create games that are reminiscent of Wii games. Job Simulator is probably the most well known VR game and the closest thing to a killer app. It is very gimmicky, but it makes good use of the technology. We need something that speaks to gamers as they are the ones that will dictate the success of VR. The only reason the Wii worked with its approach of appealing to casual/non-gamers was because it was cheap in comparison to its competition (plus it was Nintendo, so had the benefit of being well established and the power of their IPs to draw people in). People aren't going to rush out to buy an expensive piece of hardware and potentially a new PC/upgrade their existing PC to play something that is kind of cool but gets old after a couple of hours.


----------



## arandomguy

evshrug said:


> My Gigabyte motherboard didn't come with its own virtual surround, I think. I've heard some weak surround processing (Razer, Silent Cinema) and good surround processing (SBX, Dolby, Cirrus Logic), and weak processing isn't even worth bothering to use. If you try the processing and it doesn't seem easy to distinguish front/back placement, then at least you can always buy X-Fi MB3 (or, better yet, a dedicated sound processor like an U3, Omni 5.1, or E5) after the fact to get good surround.


 
  
 Gigabytes now come with X-Fi MB3, well at least their relatively higher end boards that use ALC1150 do. While equivalent Asus (Sonic Studio 2 or SupremeFX? Not sure the exact branding/name they use) and MSI (Nahimic) boards also come with additional software.
  
 This is why I'm wondering about comparisons. Otherwise I have to factor in the add on value for X-Fi MB3 ($30 USD) for a Gigabyte.
  
 What external options would you recommend? Planning on going SFF so an internal card is not an option. Looking for value/cheap not really picky. Just need VSS, volume control (without having to rely on windows), and bass boost for more sub bass (compensation for my KSC75s, I don't want to switch though for comfort reasons).


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> Agreed!
> And your system's more beefy than mine... Still rocking an i3 3.3Ghz/GTX 660! Yours looks like a supercomputer from my perspective


 
 Core i7 4790k just clocked at 4.2ghz (could do more) and my newly aquired but used EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW edition.

 Sorry just had to lol.
  
 I already feel like upgrading to a GTX 1080 lol


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Yeah...I wanted to pull the trigger on them but they are practically new, not really much info is what they say in the discussion thread. *So it didn't really motivate me to purchase a pair*.


 
  
 Nooooo! I'm supposed to be your motivation! Buy it and tell us how awesome they are for gaming and if they happen to be a 9500 killer for the <$100 go to headphone. You know you wanna' be the one to make the discovery... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



  
 /jk
  
 Hopefully someone reviews it. If they turn out good I'm sure someone will make it known.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Agreed!
> And your system's more beefy than mine... Still rocking an i3 3.3Ghz/GTX 660! Yours looks like a supercomputer from my perspective
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
I've had my day-one Rift CV1 pre-order for about two months, actually. It was pretty much what I expected, so I'm satisfied with what I've got since there aren't any blatant manufacturing defects impeding my use of it.
  
 I sorta remember your impressions of PSVR, but I haven't paid attention to it too closely because I don't have a PS4 and probably won't even think about getting one 'til that NEO revision's out. The PSVR games are gonna need the boost, and while I would ideally just play them on PC with my Rift, you know how console exclusives are...
  
  


rudyae86 said:


> Core i7 4790k just clocked at 4.2ghz (could do more) and my newly aquired but used EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW edition.
> 
> Sorry just had to lol.
> 
> I already feel like upgrading to a GTX 1080 lol


 
  
 I've got my 4770K pushed to 4.6 GHz, though pushing beyond that even on custom water cooling is considerably difficult. I may have no choice but to delid.
  
 And yeah, while I'm also feeling the itch for the GTX 1080, that means I'd have to put up with a DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter that most likely has a crappier RAMDAC than the one in my GTX 980. Such is life for a CRT enthusiast in 2016.
  
 That and I'd rather have the 1080 Ti/equivalent Titan based on GP102 instead of GP104, bigger GPU and all. The prices are gonna suck if the 1080's already $700 in practice and AMD doesn't put some pressure on with Vega, though...


----------



## Sonikku13

Is there a go-to IEM similar to a Q701 for gaming purposes?

I ask because my desktop setup takes forever to setup.


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> I've had my day-one Rift CV1 pre-order for about two months, actually. It was pretty much what I expected, so I'm satisfied with what I've got since there aren't any blatant manufacturing defects impeding my use of it.
> 
> I sorta remember your impressions of PSVR, but I haven't paid attention to it too closely because I don't have a PS4 and probably won't even think about getting one 'til that NEO revision's out. The PSVR games are gonna need the boost, and while I would ideally just play them on PC with my Rift, you know how console exclusives are...
> 
> ...


 
 I dont know if I will ever go back to CRT lol.
  
 But yeah, I dont think I will get a 1080 Ti even if it releases. AMD really needs to shine with Vega....Polaris isn't that much impressive considering you can get a GTX 980 for sub 200 right now.


----------



## Evshrug

arandomguy said:


> What external options would you recommend? Planning on going SFF so an internal card is not an option. Looking for value/cheap not really picky. Just need VSS, volume control (without having to rely on windows), and bass boost for more sub bass (compensation for my KSC75s, I don't want to switch though for comfort reasons).



The three DSPs I mentioned are all external options that I would recommend. Asus U3, Creative Omni 5.1, and Creative E5. The E5 costs a bit more, but it also fills the roles of portable amp/DAC, transport, Bluetooth, mic. The U3 is the least expensive, though I haven't tried it and at that price I wouldn't expect much from the DAC/Amp. Might be the best fit to use with the Koss KSC 75.




change is good said:


> Nooooo! I'm supposed to be your motivation! Buy it and tell us how awesome they are for gaming and if they happen to be a 9500 killer for the <$100 go to headphone. You know you wanna' be the one to make the discovery...
> 
> /jk
> 
> Hopefully someone reviews it. If they turn out good I'm sure someone will make it known.



I agree, being the first to discover a good value (and make a review) is really fun. Maybe get the headphone instead of making a 9% gpu power increase for $700? That GTX980 should last you for YEARS.

Where the hell would you find a GTX980 for less than $200 besides 2nd hand from your brother, or something? Lol I'll buy yours for $190 if you don't want it!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

rudyae86 said:


> Core i7 4790k just clocked at 4.2ghz (could do more) and my newly aquired but used EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW edition.
> 
> Sorry just had to lol.
> 
> I already feel like upgrading to a GTX 1080 lol


 

 Q8200 clocked at 2.94ghz (can't do more), GTX 660 Ti aaaand.... Windows Vista.
  
 Luckily I have some money put aside, so I'll soon have a very respectable rig.


----------



## Change is Good

sonikku13 said:


> Is there a go-to IEM similar to a Q701 for gaming purposes?
> 
> I ask because my desktop setup takes forever to setup.




Try to vsonic gr07 or the philips fidelio S2.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I agree, being the first to discover a good value (and make a review) is really fun.




If I hadn't spent what I did on the woodie CAL! I'd be all over it. I did sell it but came away at a loss. Tis the risk one takes when buying on impulse. I just wish I had taken that risk on these instead.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rudyae86 said:


> I dont know if I will ever go back to CRT lol.
> 
> But yeah, I dont think I will get a 1080 Ti even if it releases. AMD really needs to shine with Vega....Polaris isn't that much impressive considering you can get a GTX 980 for sub 200 right now.


 
  
 Well, when you have FD Trinitrons in the 21" to 24" range that were top-of-the-line professional graphics monitors in their day acquired for rather low prices, it tends to spoil you rotten. No input lag, perfect viewing angles, black levels that are BLACK, high refresh rates, no native resolutions for when you still like to fire up the classics... these things wipe the floor with LCDs and I'm just waiting for OLED monitors to become more widespread.
  
 My only issue is that the flyback transformer board or some other high-voltage component in my prized GDM-FW900 blew out over a year ago, and I need to get it fixed. Having to go back to 21" 4:3 in this day and age is rather painful with a lot of games.
  
 But then I realize that the cost of fixing up the FW900 might be prohibitive when to keep using it with future graphics cards to its maximum potential, I'd have to start shopping for a DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter that doesn't completely suck compared to the RAMDACs built into graphics cards up until NVIDIA's Maxwell generation, which most likely isn't going to happen until the HDFury 5 releases - the most prestigious in a line of video DACs that are NOT cheap.
  
 Most DisplayPort-to-VGA adapters have a RAMDAC clocked at only about 230-260 MHz, you see. 400 MHz RAMDACs have been standard features in graphics cards for years. The FW900 could push resolutions and refresh rates that take advantage of such fast clocks. 'Nuff said.
  
 Meanwhile, you can get refurb Acer XB270HU monitors for $400 now. The quality's going to suck by comparison, but 2560x1440, 144 Hz and G-SYNC in particular make it a potential holdover 'til we get widespread OLED.
  
 Oh, and sub-$200 GTX 980s? Maybe I should pick up a second one at that kinda pricing just for the hell of it, though I know full well that a lot of recent releases don't support multi-GPU at all due to incompatible rendering methods. I'd probably be better off saving the money for Volta.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> Well, when you have FD Trinitrons in the 21" to 24" range that were top-of-the-line professional graphics monitors in their day acquired for rather low prices, it tends to spoil you rotten. No input lag, perfect viewing angles, black levels that are BLACK, high refresh rates, no native resolutions for when you still like to fire up the classics... these things wipe the floor with LCDs and I'm just waiting for OLED monitors to become more widespread.
> 
> My only issue is that the flyback transformer board or some other high-voltage component in my prized GDM-FW900 blew out over a year ago, and I need to get it fixed. Having to go back to 21" 4:3 in this day and age is rather painful with a lot of games.
> 
> ...


 

 Out of pure curiosity. Is there such a thing as videophile video dacs?


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Out of pure curiosity. Is there such a thing as videophile video dacs?



Sure, but don't think they call them DACs. All I know is the Sony PS3 was considered a superior Blu-Ray player than most competition for video quality, until Oppo took the throne. And there's always exotic super $$$ items that jockey for "the best" quality position.

The signal decoder built into a TV is also quite important... Maybe that's the RAMDAC that Nameless is referring to? And 400hz is kind of like audio's 24-bit/196kHz sampling rate?


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

evshrug said:


> Sure, but don't think they call them DACs. All I know is the Sony PS3 was considered a superior Blu-Ray player than most competition for video quality, until Oppo took the throne. And there's always exotic super $$$ items that jockey for "the best" quality position.
> 
> The signal decoder built into a TV is also quite important... Maybe that's the RAMDAC that Nameless is referring to? And 400hz is kind of like audio's 24-bit/196kHz sampling rate?


Speaking of which, would you say getting a Oppo Blu Ray player be a noticible upgrade over my ps3 for the price?


----------



## Evshrug

mrkingdomhearts said:


> Speaking of which, would you say getting a Oppo Blu Ray player be a noticible upgrade over my ps3 for the price?



Ahhh, pbbbbt, that's one of those subjective value things. Yes, the Oppo blu-ray player is better in a technical and measurable way, but it's up to you to decide if that will increase your enjoyment. I'm not a videophile, loved going straight from a DVD collection to HD movie downloads (iTunes and Amazon).


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I agree, being the first to discover a good value (and make a review) is really fun. Maybe get the headphone instead of making a 9% gpu power increase for $700? That GTX980 should last you for YEARS.
> 
> Where the hell would you find a GTX980 for less than $200 besides 2nd hand from your brother, or something? Lol I'll buy yours for $190 if you don't want it!


 
 I have a 980 Ti, not a regular 980 ( which I did have before and sold it for a good price to get the Ti) But 200 dollar GTX 980 roam ebay, used of course.


napalmhardcore said:


> Q8200 clocked at 2.94ghz (can't do more), GTX 660 Ti aaaand.... Windows Vista.
> 
> Luckily I have some money put aside, so I'll soon have a very respectable rig.


 
 Man, at least thats better than what I had about 4 years ago, a P4 at 3.0ghz of which was in a pre built computer, a Sony Vaio lol. Had 2 GB of DDR, a 250gb HDD, an Antec 380w PSU and the first video card for it was a PNY 7600GS with 512MB of GDDR2 I think. Then I upgraded to a BFG (Yes, BFG! they were great) 7950GT with 256GB GDDR3 I think which did pretty well to run COD MW when it released. They upgraded to a PNY Geforce GTS 250 (aka gtx 9800 or something like that). I was still a noob in terms of PC components and what was the latest.
  I was still running Windows XP at the time as well.
  
  


namelesspfg said:


> Well, when you have FD Trinitrons in the 21" to 24" range that were top-of-the-line professional graphics monitors in their day acquired for rather low prices, it tends to spoil you rotten. No input lag, perfect viewing angles, black levels that are BLACK, high refresh rates, no native resolutions for when you still like to fire up the classics... these things wipe the floor with LCDs and I'm just waiting for OLED monitors to become more widespread.
> 
> My only issue is that the flyback transformer board or some other high-voltage component in my prized GDM-FW900 blew out over a year ago, and I need to get it fixed. Having to go back to 21" 4:3 in this day and age is rather painful with a lot of games.
> 
> ...


 
 Dont know much about monitors but all I know is that CRTs were the schiit back then. The sub $200 GTX 980s are used though. Plenty of them on Ebay, might even find a few on craigslist....especially since the GTX 1060 has been released and its slightly faster on some games than the GTX 980. I would still go with the 980 with the extra cuda cores if you do some video editing. Plus, who cares about saving energy when you are playing on your PC? We love powa!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Sure, but don't think they call them DACs. All I know is the Sony PS3 was considered a superior Blu-Ray player than most competition for video quality, until Oppo took the throne. And there's always exotic super $$$ items that jockey for "the best" quality position.
> 
> The signal decoder built into a TV is also quite important... Maybe that's the RAMDAC that Nameless is referring to? And 400hz is kind of like audio's 24-bit/196kHz sampling rate?




No no, not a blu ray. Specifically a video dac that takes a digital video signal such as hdmi and converts it to analog one, such as vga. I balieve Nameless was referring to exactly such a decice built into an adapter plugged into the gpu.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

rudyae86 said:


> Man, at least thats better than what I had about 4 years ago, a P4 at 3.0ghz of which was in a pre built computer, a Sony Vaio lol. Had 2 GB of DDR, a 250gb HDD, an Antec 380w PSU and the first video card for it was a PNY 7600GS with 512MB of GDDR2 I think. Then I upgraded to a BFG (Yes, BFG! they were great) 7950GT with 256GB GDDR3 I think which did pretty well to run COD MW when it released. They upgraded to a PNY Geforce GTS 250 (aka gtx 9800 or something like that). I was still a noob in terms of PC components and what was the latest.
> I was still running Windows XP at the time as well.


 
 When I bought my PC there were quite a few people saying that a quad core CPU was overkill. I'm glad I didn't listen because going quad core is one of the reasons I've been able to keep going this long (that and a couple of graphics card upgrades). It was a pretty decent machine back in 2008.
  
 It's only really the last year or two that my PC hasn't been cutting it, and that's mostly because more and more games have been dropping support for Vista. Stuff like Battlefield 3 and Far Cry 3 I could run with a mix of high and medium settings and get between 40-70 fps.
  
 My next machine I'm going i7 K series, 16 gb RAM and a GTX 1070 or 1080 (while some people say either of those are overkill for a 1080p monitor a) It will do 144hz, so taking advantage of that when I can will be nice and b) It should allow me to max out games for a decent amount of time before I have to upgrade).


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> When I bought my PC there were quite a few people saying that a quad core CPU was overkill. I'm glad I didn't listen because going quad core is one of the reasons I've been able to keep going this long (that and a couple of graphics card upgrades). It was a pretty decent machine back in 2008.
> 
> It's only really the last year or two that my PC hasn't been cutting it, and that's mostly because more and more games have been dropping support for Vista. Stuff like Battlefield 3 and Far Cry 3 I could run with a mix of high and medium settings and get between 40-70 fps.
> 
> My next machine I'm going i7 K series, 16 gb RAM and a GTX 1070 or 1080 (while some people say either of those are overkill for a 1080p monitor a) It will do 144hz, so taking advantage of that when I can will be nice and b) It should allow me to max out games for a decent amount of time before I have to upgrade).



I have pretty much the same specs in my work machine. I7-6700, 16gb of ram and gtx1070. Cryengine 3 games maxed out go as high as 100 fps in 1080p.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> I have pretty much the same specs in my work machine. I7-6700, 16gb of ram and gtx1070. Cryengine 3 games maxed out go as high as 100 fps in 1080p.


 

 It will be nice to be able to run new/newish games with authority again. It's sad when you start having to do the balancing act between performance and visuals.
  
 You mention the Cryengine. I'm currently playing Crysis 2 on the PS3 (I have a PS4 but I'm currently working through some of the backlog of games I have). I bought it in a sale a year or two back despite having the PC version as sometimes I like to check out multiple ports of games (I'm one of the few people that check out comparison vids and Digital Foundry articles purely because I find it interesting rather than for bragging rights). It's pretty impressive for a PS3 title, though I personally think they should have stripped the graphics back a little bit more for the sake of the framerate. When things get hectic the controls suffer.


----------



## Yethal

Underdeveloped ports are the price we pay for publishers' greed. And underoptimized console releases are the price we pay for developers laziness.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Underdeveloped ports are the price we pay for publishers' greed. And underoptimized console releases are the price we pay for developers laziness.


 

 Multi-platform development will likely always have its problems. I wouldn't call Crysis 2 a particularly bad port considering the lack of horsepower the PS3 has. It just seems like one of those cases where they prioritised graphics over performance which is detrimental to a FPS.
  
 I started out on Atari but I was too young to be critical back then. When I got an Amiga is when I started noticing differences between platforms and ports. Amiga was very much a mixed bag when it came to ports. After Amiga I moved to the Sega Mega Drive (Genesis) and stuck mostly with consoles for quite a long time. My brother bought a PC in 1998 but I never really got into it. I seriously regret that now because the late 90s and early 00s was an awesome time for PC games.
  
 From the mid 90s to early 00s console and PC had very different games to suit very different audiences. In a way that was great because it allowed each to play to their strengths. Nowadays the vast majority of games are or easily could be multi-platform which kind of gives less reason to own one over another. The clear answer nowadays SHOULD be, if you want the best experience, get yourself a PC, but there are still cases of botched ports (Batman Arkham Knight being particularly notable) and cases of content disparity (Mortal Kombat not getting all the content packs), so if you want to be sure of having the best experience, really you need to own more than one system. There's also the matter of exclusives which is a whole other topic.


----------



## Yethal

Personally I'm against simultaneous multiplatform development. It's a waste of resources to have the development team split into different engineering teams for each platform, or for people to write code for several of them at once. For me the best approach is what Warframe and Rocket League did. First PC, then one console, then the other. Not all at once.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never listen to people that say X card is overkill for X resolution. What you're doing with 'overkill' is ensuring the card you get stays competitive for longer. It might be doing 140-200fps now, but in 2-3 years, it may be 40fps extreme case, I know, but still).

What is overkill now, will be 'fine' the next year.

Not to mention, 240hz monitors are coming quite soon.

I just want a that new Titan X coming in less than 2 weeks. But that price is about as much as I wanna spend on my next PC sans video card. >.< 

I've been EXTREMELY patient in waiting for new monitors to come out. It has to be at LEAST 1440p/HDR/144hz+/Gsync.

But really, I've been waiting to hear about OLED monitors, which by the looks of it look like 2017 territory, sadly.

As for me, still on 3630QM Mobile i7, and 680m still, 12gb of DDR3/12800.


----------



## Yethal

Acer has a 2560x1080 200hz monitor already.


----------



## jincuteguy

yethal said:


> Acer has a 2560x1080 200hz monitor already.


 
  
 Yea but 1080p is so ancient now.  I wouldn't buy any 1080 monitor even if it has 1000+hz.


----------



## Yethal

jincuteguy said:


> Yea but 1080p is so ancient now.  I wouldn't buy any 1080 monitor even if it has 1000+hz.


 

 Depends on the size. Perceived pixel density increases the farther your are from the screen.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

jincuteguy said:


> Yea but 1080p is so ancient now.  I wouldn't buy any 1080 monitor even if it has 1000+hz.


 

 Personally I'm in no hurry to abandon 1080p. I'd rather be able to run high settings, a good framerate and lower resolution (native) than lower settings, a good framerate and a high resolution (native). Plus, half the time I sit/lay on my bed to play games, so that's half the time when the difference between a native 720p and 1080p screen would probably be negligible, never mind higher resolutions. Mind you, the biggest monitor I have room for is 24" (unless I were to downgrade my speakers), so I might feel differently if I had a bigger screen.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Out of pure curiosity. Is there such a thing as videophile video dacs?


 
  
 Not really, since most displays and their interfaces (DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort) have gone digital for over a decade. Analog video only really pertains to CRTs, since instead of a digital fixed grid, they scan electron beams over a phosphor surface according to the video signal they're fed, as long as it's within the yoke's sync limits.
  
 Because of that, the other direction - videophile _ADCs_ - are more of a thing - mostly upscalers like the Micomsoft XRGB-Mini Framemeister that take analog RGB video and cleanly convert and upscale it to something considerably friendlier to modern HDMI displays and capture cards. More on that here if you're interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtTM7nU9SMA&list=PLTNBVisVMbSR1ZDDQRgjg6S9D2YQ4rwnZ
  
 That said, analog video quality for PC use was a selling point back in the '90s, when people who wanted clean 2D quality with 10-bit color resolution in the LUT instead of just 8-bit needed to pay up for a Matrox card as opposed to the cheaper S3, ATI, NVIDIA, etc. offerings.
  
 This actually worked out well when 3dfx burst onto the scene and had pure 3D accelerators that worked in tandem with an existing 2D graphics card, so it wasn't really a tradeoff between 2D graphics fidelity and blistering-fast 3D performance at first.
  
 But of course, clean VGA output, 10-bit LUTs, and even dual VGA-outs became a standard thing as the market quickly consolidated into NVIDIA vs. ATI, and then LCDs took over.
  


evshrug said:


> Sure, but don't think they call them DACs. All I know is the Sony PS3 was considered a superior Blu-Ray player than most competition for video quality, until Oppo took the throne. And there's always exotic super $$$ items that jockey for "the best" quality position.
> 
> The signal decoder built into a TV is also quite important... Maybe that's the RAMDAC that Nameless is referring to? And 400hz is kind of like audio's 24-bit/196kHz sampling rate?


 
  
 Signal decoders wouldn't really make sense from an analog video standpoint; the closest you'd have there would be the old comb filters used for deinterlacing and trying to make composite video not look like crap. There's nothing to decode when sending analog video to a CRT if it's already in its component RGBHV form, as it typically is with a VGA interface.
  
 Basically, you need a faster RAMDAC to drive higher resolutions and refresh rates. For instance, 1600x1200 at 95Hz requires a 256.5 MHz pixel clock, and 1920x1200 at the same 95 Hz (which the FW900 can reach) requires roughly a 319.8 MHz pixel clock. That's well beyond what any garden variety DisplayPort to VGA adapter can handle.
  
 A better comparison would be how newer HDMI and DisplayPort revisions are needed to increase the available video bandwidth and thus the available resolutions and refresh rates.
  


napalmhardcore said:


> Personally I'm in no hurry to abandon 1080p. I'd rather be able to run high settings, a good framerate and lower resolution (native) than lower settings, a good framerate and a high resolution (native). Plus, half the time I sit/lay on my bed to play games, so that's half the time when the difference between a native 720p and 1080p screen would probably be negligible, never mind higher resolutions. Mind you, the biggest monitor I have room for is 24" (unless I were to downgrade my speakers), so I might feel differently if I had a bigger screen.


 
  
 I'd actually gladly embrace 4K and resolutions even beyond that, but that would be murder on my poor GTX 980. Even the new Pascal-based Titan X (dammit, NVIDIA, Apple branding does NOT work with graphics cards!) would be stressed at 4K, I'm sure.
  
 2560x1440 at 144 Hz seems like the best balance for now until GPUs catch up - and, yes, that higher refresh rate matters from a PC gaming perspective.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> I'd actually gladly embrace 4K and resolutions even beyond that, but that would be murder on my poor GTX 980. Even the new Pascal-based Titan X (dammit, NVIDIA, Apple branding does NOT work with graphics cards!) would be stressed at 4K, I'm sure.
> 
> 2560x1440 at 144 Hz seems like the best balance for now until GPUs catch up - and, yes, that higher refresh rate matters from a PC gaming perspective.


 
 There lies the reason I'm not in a big rush. Cards are struggling with modern games at high resolutions like 4K. With a graphically demanding game, even with the best (single) cards you normally either have to drop some of the settings or live with lower framerates. I'd personally rather have a lower native resolution screen that will enable me to bump up the graphics settings and maintain good frames per second.
  
 When it comes to PC gaming, some people don't like to go below 60fps. For me personally, it is more context sensitive. For example, I'd prefer to stay above 60fps for a fast paced first person shooter. Something where you are planning your approach a little bit more like the Far Cry games, I don't mind if it dips down into the 30s. Third person action games like Assassin's Creed, I'm more likely to play with a controller, so I actually prefer to enable v-sync and if unable to maintain above 60fps, I'd lock it at 30fps. Racing games are a mixed bag dependent on the particular game or even car. When higher framerates cannot be maintained in a racing game, I prefer again to lock the framerate because a lot of framerate variation below 60fps affects your sense of speed, so it's preferable that it be stable.
  
 However, those are what I see as minimum requirements. The recommended refresh rate for my monitor (that it displays in the menu as recommended) is 120 Hz, though it will do 144 Hz. I played a couple of older games where I can run at 120+ frames per second and it feels amazing. Everything is so responsive and fluid. I'd personally prefer to stay at 1080p if it means I can get that experience with more games without having to drop the graphics settings as time goes on and graphics cards improve as opposed to having high resolution with 30-60 frames per second.


----------



## rudyae86

Im not upgrading to 4K until I can run a game at 100fps on a single card. For now, 1080p with 144hz refresh rate and a card that can do that without much difficutly is all I need.
  
 That new Titan X though....I wonder if some people will get confused and get the wrong "X" lol


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Im not upgrading to 4K until I can run a game at 100fps on a single card. For now, 1080p with 144hz refresh rate and a card that can do that without much difficutly is all I need.
> 
> 
> That new Titan X though....I wonder if some people will get confused and get the wrong "X" lol



Nvidia should name it Titan XX. Repetition is key to success.
Abd then they could release the third version called Titan XXX.


----------



## Yethal

GUYZ. This:


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Nvidia should name it Titan XX. Repetition is key to success.
> Abd then they could release the third version called Titan XXX.


 
 Titan XXX, the card designed exclusively for VR po... I mean, um, science.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

On a slightly more serious and thread related topic, is it possible to clip a digital input?
  
 I ask because I've had it in some games where it is like the sound has kind of hit a ceiling and lost its dynamics when played through the Mixamp with virtual surround enabled. Also, sometimes I think I can hear distortion here and there, but it is hard to identify it in games with various ambient sounds (like pieces of rubble falling etc).
  
 Certain cars in Project CARS did it (and from what I've read on the Project CARS forums, it doesn't have proper directional audio anyway) so I ended up switching to linear PCM stereo and it sounded a lot nicer. I've also had it in some games when there are loud explosions (not that I have my volume particularly high, but relative to the rest of the audio). Is it even possible to send a digital signal that is "too hot"?
  
 Project CARS is the game that put this idea into my head because it's much louder than other games (with the volume on my Mixamp/AV receiver set the same) and seems to be the game that exhibits this the most.


----------



## Change is Good

Project Cars just has poor sound design all together. It's one of the worst I've heard in a racing game.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> Project Cars just has poor sound design all together. It's one of the worst I've heard in a racing game.


 

 Yeah, I saw quite a few complaints during my time on the forums and have experienced some weird bugs like having no sound for acceleration but having sound when the car is decelerating.. One of many problems with that game.


----------



## lltfdaniel

Hi,
  
 Can anyone test these 2 headphones because they are the two best gaming headphones of http://www.pcgamer.com/we-tested-23-mainstream-gaming-headsets-to-find-the-best/7/ .
  
Mionix Nash 20 Headset  HyperX Cloud Revolver Pro Gaming Stereo Headset


----------



## Yethal

lltfdaniel said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone test these 2 headphones because they are the two best gaming headphones of http://www.pcgamer.com/we-tested-23-mainstream-gaming-headsets-to-find-the-best/7/ .
> 
> Mionix Nash 20 Headset  HyperX Cloud Revolver Pro Gaming Stereo Headset


 

 Buy me them and I'll test them for You.


----------



## rudyae86

lltfdaniel said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone test these 2 headphones because they are the two best gaming headphones of http://www.pcgamer.com/we-tested-23-mainstream-gaming-headsets-to-find-the-best/7/ .
> 
> Mionix Nash 20 Headset  HyperX Cloud Revolver Pro Gaming Stereo Headset


 
 We like to stick to headphones thanks lol
  
 or
  
  


yethal said:


> Buy me them and I'll test them for You.


 
 This here.


change is good said:


> Project Cars just has poor sound design all together. It's one of the worst I've heard in a racing game.


 
 Yeah their sound is alright, RaceRoom has way better sound compared to PCARS in my opinion. Thing I hate about PCARS is that I have to lower the volume within the games menu since even having the master volume at 15 is quite loud. I don't know but they never got around to fixing some of this stuff other than focusing much on FFB.

 PCARS has gotten better through the months but still not getting it right. That's why I play Assetto Corsa most of the time......man that new Ferrari F138....V8s high revving sound.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

rudyae86 said:


> We like to stick to headphones thanks lol
> .
> Yeah their sound is alright, RaceRoom has way better sound compared to PCARS in my opinion. Thing I hate about PCARS is that I have to lower the volume within the games menu since even having the master volume at 15 is quite loud. I don't know but they never got around to fixing some of this stuff other than focusing much on FFB.
> 
> PCARS has gotten better through the months but still not getting it right. That's why I play Assetto Corsa most of the time......man that new Ferrari F138....V8s high revving sound.


 
 Headsets have been improving steadily over the last few years and it is likely that one day the blanket statement of "gaming headsets suck" will no longer be true. I personally like to keep my knowlege up to date in this regard and am less dismissive of headsets. Basically, I'm not going to condemn a product with no knowlege of it.
  
 Raceroom does have very good sound, however I will not support F2P projects so I'll never get to play it.
  
 I've not played PCARS for a few months but that game never really left beta. I doubt they'll iron out all the problems before abandoning it for PCARS 2, so PCARS 2 is certainly not going to be a day one purchase for me. I have a number of complaints about PCARS that if repeated in the sequel might make me skip it altogether.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> Headsets have been improving steadily over the last few years and it is likely that one day the blanket statement of "gaming headsets suck" will no longer be true. I personally like to keep my knowlege up to date in this regard and am less dismissive of headsets. Basically, I'm not going to condemn a product with no knowlege of it.


 
 It's no longer a blanket statement in an era where:

Audio companies make gaming headsets (such as Sennheiser, Audio-Technica or Beyerdynamic)
Gaming headsets made by gaming companies keep getting better (HyperX Cloud series)
  
 However, the statement "gaming headsets suck" covers more issues than only sound quality. Mainly:

Adding unnecessary stuff that only increases the cost and weight such as LED in the earcups (hello SteelSeries)
Using several discrete drivers for "real" surround instead of virtual surround (hello Razer)
Using USB as the only available connection instead of analog with an additional dongle (hello Logitech)
Using proprietary or obsolete connectors in order to gouge up the price of accessories and limit competition(hello *5-pin TRRRS* connector from Astro, hello mini-Firewire on Mixamp TR)
Making the microphone and the cable hard-wired thus, increasing failure rate (hello Turtle Beach)
Using atrocious designs such as the one below (hello darkness my old friend)
  


Spoiler: Warning: Cringe!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> It's no longer a blanket statement in an era where:
> 
> Audio companies make gaming headsets (such as Sennheiser, Audio-Technica or Beyerdynamic)
> Gaming headsets made by gaming companies keep getting better (HyperX Cloud series)
> ...


 
 Totally agree.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

As someone who owned the Turtle Beach Px21 and Steelseries Siberia V2 I'm glad my headset days are behind me. 
They where uncomfortable, built poorly, and I don't even use the microphone much anyway. 
Still curious if they improved over the years since it's been awhile


----------



## rudyae86

napalmhardcore said:


> Headsets have been improving steadily over the last few years and it is likely that one day the blanket statement of "gaming headsets suck" will no longer be true. I personally like to keep my knowlege up to date in this regard and am less dismissive of headsets. Basically, I'm not going to condemn a product with no knowlege of it.
> 
> Raceroom does have very good sound, however I will not support F2P projects so I'll never get to play it.
> 
> I've not played PCARS for a few months but that game never really left beta. I doubt they'll iron out all the problems before abandoning it for PCARS 2, so PCARS 2 is certainly not going to be a day one purchase for me. I have a number of complaints about PCARS that if repeated in the sequel might make me skip it altogether.


 
 Yeah my reply to the headsets was just sarcasm lol but I do agree that "gaming" headsets have been improving as of late but that's also mainly because some of them are rebrands of a headphone and then just attaching a mic to it. Nothing wrong with that but it should be noted. However, some of those in house made headsets do seem to be improving like the Logitech G933 although it does have its flaws and its too flashy for my taste (Im 30 years old, I need to keep it classy not swag), it is still a solid headset to purchase for aroun $150.

 Yeah, RaceRoom micro-transactions isn't what I like about it. Such a shame they had to go that route compared to previous games like WTCC 2007 or 2008 as well as other that felt to me, very complete.
  
 PCARS....well it has gotten better I say but I do agree, still needs a lot of polishing up and for them to start on PCARS 2 which will probably be announced officially next year, is going to be bad for the PCARS community. It's sad that even on the forums, peoples complaints and stuff are being deleted off the forums and users are sometimes banned from the forums.
  
 I wont be buying the next PCARS 2, nope. So much marketing went into that game that Im very sure most reviewers of the game got paid to say good things about it, with the exception of a few of course.
  
 Long live Assetto Corsa, I can't get enough of that sim. I just hope they get their MP aspect running nicely and do some sort of cross-platform multilplayer so we can race the console peasants as well. Would make things very interesting given that some youtuber's have already tried the console version of Assetto Corsa and have said that it feels the same as on PC. Kunos is doing great work and listening to their fans and that is what people want....for the developers to listen to their players. And I believe the game will have full support until 2020, will get new DLC and upgrade in graphics and sound as time goes by.

 Assetto Corsa just gives great quality for the price you pay for.


----------



## Change is Good

If you call us peasants one more f'n time I'm going to cyber smack you right in your mouth.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> If you call us peasants one more f'n time I'm going to cyber smack you right in your mouth.


 
 lol I was kidding about the console peasants. Im a console peasant myself as well. Got the PS4 right here lol
  
 wait, does that make me a hybrid? PC/Console peasant? PConsole? PCP.....wait thats a drug lol


----------



## rudyae86

For some reason I can't edit my post and getting a server error message....anyone getting that as well?
  
 Well before I forget, does anyone know where I can get the adapter to use my Vmoda boom pro mic with my AKG K7XX? I want to start using them more.
  
 For some reason, as much as I like my bass, the bass in my Fidelio X2 isn't as yummy as I initially though it was. I started using my K7XX again and I like the clarity more on them while the bass is less than the X2, the soundstage and imaging is better on the K7XX, like it gives me that balance of immersion while still being a great headphone for competitive gaming. I think I made up my mind about using my K7XX as a daily on my PC and the X2 on the PS4 or for music on certain genres. For music, the K7XX doesn't give that oomph in music compared to the X2, especially in EDM or music that has a lot of bass. The K7XX however works well with Hans Zimmer's music, John Williams, etc, etc.
  
 Its funny how I loved the X1/X2 for the longest but somehow started losing some interest in it. I think that after I use my K7XX for another year or so, I might make the jump to an HD800 or HD800S.....or I could go with something around the $500 dollar range, of which I still have no options to choose from in that price range.


----------



## Change is Good

Zombie made my AKG adapter a long while back. Some aftermarket ones are available, forget where though. I also think PETEREK can make you one for a fair price.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Zombie made my AKG adapter a long while back. Some aftermarket ones are available, forget where though. I also think PETEREK can make you one for a fair price.


 
 Yeah I recall Zombie making them but then stopped for obvious reasons (I think his prototypes were gone missing and/or some didn't pay upfront?). PETEREK? Can not recall his name but a linky would be helpful, TIA


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Yeah I recall Zombie making them but then stopped for obvious reasons (I think his prototypes were gone missing and/or some didn't pay upfront?). PETEREK? Can not recall his name but a linky would be helpful, TIA



Try Mimic Cables. They should have these adapters.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Yeah I recall Zombie making them but then stopped for obvious reasons (I think his prototypes were gone missing and/or some didn't pay upfront?). PETEREK? Can not recall his name but a linky would be helpful, TIA




PETEREK made my Boompro adapter for the 400i, plus some other mods. Linky to his appreciation thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/779584/peterek-formerly-ccaspertfg-mod-cable-thread

Linky to his website

http://www.VERBESSEN.com


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Try Mimic Cables. They should have these adapters.


 
 Ok. I see they are $20....but I'm confused with the plug in female and plug out male?


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> PETEREK made my Boompro adapter for the 400i, plus some other mods. Linky to his appreciation thread.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/779584/peterek-formerly-ccaspertfg-mod-cable-thread
> 
> ...


 
 Cool. Thank you


----------



## burritoboy9984

rudyae86 said:


> Ok. I see they are $20....but I'm confused with the plug in female and plug out male?




Female 3.5 to male mini xlr.


----------



## rudyae86

burritoboy9984 said:


> Female 3.5 to male mini xlr.


 
 3.5mm TRS or TRRS?


----------



## Evshrug

TRS = left channel, right channel, and ground.
TRRS = left channel, right channel, microphone, ground.

The mic is built into the BoomPro cable and there is no need for a mic channel in the headphone itself, therefore just TRS. Another way to figure it out in the future: what is the plug on the boompro that plugs into the headphone side? In this case, a male TRS. Find the mate of that (a female TRS) and you've got it.

Sorry Rudy, 19 hours of facepalm


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> TRS = left channel, right channel, and ground.
> TRRS = left channel, right channel, microphone, ground.
> 
> The mic is built into the BoomPro cable and there is no need for a mic channel in the headphone itself, therefore just TRS. Another way to figure it out in the future: what is the plug on the boompro that plugs into the headphone side? In this case, a male TRS. Find the mate of that (a female TRS) and you've got it.
> ...




Lol thanks. I dont know why I got confused with the TRS and TRRS, something so simple haha.

But I got some nees from Beyerdynamics facebook page. New flagship headphone. I think it may be the DT1990 which will replace the DT990. I also believe there is a thread for this here on headfi.

Lets hope they fix the cons of the DT990. Maybe it will blend between DT880 and DT990?

No wonder all those sales for the DT770, DT880 and DT990 were so popular the last few months lol


----------



## Change is Good

Some free advertising for someone giving a great deal in the classifieds. I honestly wish i would have kept mine.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/815416/philips-shp9500-excellent-condition-45-shipped


----------



## Evshrug

The DT1770 has been a big hit. People were clamoring for it at RMAF. Could be cool if it fills the $400-$500 gap with commensurate value, and has a less divisive treble experience.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> The DT1770 has been a big hit. People were clamping for it at RMAF. Could be cool if it fills the $400-$500 gap with commensurate value, and has a less divisive treble experience.




I'd like to hear it sometime (are you getting one?). Always been curious how it compares to my TH-X00 (same price range).


----------



## Evshrug

The DT1770? Not particularly in need of a closed headphone right now


----------



## Napalmhardcore

rudyae86 said:


> Yeah my reply to the headsets was just sarcasm lol but I do agree that "gaming" headsets have been improving as of late but that's also mainly because some of them are rebrands of a headphone and then just attaching a mic to it. Nothing wrong with that but it should be noted. However, some of those in house made headsets do seem to be improving like the Logitech G933 although it does have its flaws and its too flashy for my taste (Im 30 years old, I need to keep it classy not swag), it is still a solid headset to purchase for aroun $150.
> 
> Yeah, RaceRoom micro-transactions isn't what I like about it. Such a shame they had to go that route compared to previous games like WTCC 2007 or 2008 as well as other that felt to me, very complete.
> 
> ...


 

 Sorry for the late reply. Didn't receive notifications of new posts for some reason.
  
 The reason I brought up the gaming headset thing is because I see the phrase "gaming headsets suck" or comments that hint at it a lot nowadays. I think there are some cases where people have had bad experiences with gaming headsets and then decide that all gaming headsets suck, but their opinion stays static rather than taking into account the fact that things change over time. I also see some people that I get the impression have gotten wind of this and jump on the bandwagon. I just rather not add to the stigmatisation of gaming headsets when things seem to be improving. I've just turned 33, so I agree with you about not wanting flashy looking stuff. If it has LEDs on it, I'll probably give it a miss.
  
 I was a big fan of Simbin titles, so I was very sad to see them go the free to play route. The problem is that it was pretty much a glorified demo that you could add content to. I figured out that if you were to buy the amount of content that would make up a traditionally marketed game (let's say £25-£30 as it isn't a triple A title) you'd be paying over £200. Yes there were discounts here and there and you could temporarily try out some new cars, but the F2P pricing model is just generally a sneaky way to charge more money for less content and I won't support it.
  
 I spent some time over at the Project CARS forums and even contributed footage for analysis to try and get to the bottom of a tyre heating issue. There are a few nice people there, but there are a lot of defensive fanboys that will jump on you for criticism of the game. The studio head also frequents the forums and he personally locks threads (and allegedly deletes stuff). He is bad tempered and unproffessional. I'm not quite sure why he goes on the forums at all because it seemed like he was only there to argue with people that criticised the game or lock/delete threads. When people complain about the state of the game or one of the many bugs, there is very much a "if you don't like it don't play it" attitude, like people are acting entitled to expect a game they bought to work properly. Also, according to them the tyre model/heating and physics are always correct at the time of questioning. When a new tweak or update comes along (changing the then "correct" aspect), the old version was wrong, but the new one is correct. Rinse and repeat.
  
 I supported Assetto Corsa from the first day of early access, but I didn't actually play it until the official Nordschleife pack came out (it's my favourite track, so I wanted that to be the first track I drove). I haven't played a racing sim in a while because I've been playing other game genres, but I really enjoyed Assetto Corsa when I was playing it and there have been various updates since I last played to look forward to for next time I play. I still want to like Project CARS but the many issues it has/had make it difficult.


----------



## lltfdaniel

nvm.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> The DT1770? Not particularly in need of a closed headphone right now




You brought it up so I just assumed.


----------



## Change is Good

Haha coincidentally Ev mentions Beyer's closed 1770 and boom. Front page shows Beyer announcing the new open 1990. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/814629/beyerdynamic-dt-1990-pro-beyers-open-back-mastering-headphone#post_12731229

Very interesting. Wonder if they fixed the upper frequency issues while keeping that good bass the 990 is known for.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Haha coincidentally Ev mentions Beyer's closed 1770 and boom. Front page shows Beyer announcing the new open 1990.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/814629/beyerdynamic-dt-1990-pro-beyers-open-back-mastering-headphone#post_12731229
> 
> Very interesting. Wonder if they fixed the upper frequency issues while keeping that good bass the 990 is known for.




Umm Im the one that mentioned the DT1990 and Evs mentioned the DT1770...lol


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Umm Im the one that mentioned the DT1990 and Evs mentioned the DT1770...lol


Ah, I overlooked your post because it was the last one in the prior page, and Ev didn't bother quoting you. I was wondering why the hell he randomly mentioned the Beyer, but it wasn't random after all haha.


----------



## Change is Good

Glad it's not another $1500+ new release, as Ev mentions. Seems like most other companies are completely ignoring the mid price range nowadays. Sad because it was that market that put most of them on the map.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice, but not expecting much


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Ah, I overlooked your post because it was the last one in the prior page, and Ev didn't bother quoting you. I was wondering why the hell he randomly mentioned the Beyer, but it wasn't random after all haha.




Lol yeah I realized you said he just randomly mentioned the DT1770.

I read a comment on Beyers Facebook pgae that they did tune something different about the sound signature. Reason he said that was because someone asked for some graphs but they replied by said comment.

Im wondering if if that peak on the DT990s got fixed?


----------



## Evshrug

By all accounts, the DT1770 was a fair jump in SQ upgrade over the DT770, so things look promising for the DT1990.

For you gents who tried the DT990 and DT880, which had the sharper/more irritating treble? I realized the DT880 was going too fatiguing for me to keep, but I really liked the T51p small portable and occasionally jones for it 

Change, thanks for attributing supernatural foresight to me! But yeah, the DT1990 was mentioned in a few Head-Fi places and Rudyrae brought it up, and I am random. I prefer not quoting people if I can provide enough context that I'm replying, because sometimes posts get really long and I don't want to make people scroll too much. But if people need to know what I'm referring to, I try to quote then!


To Napalm's point about gaming headsets... I thought the Astro A30 was shockingly crap, the A40 was decent but not worth the price, a series of turtle beach headsets have broken for my buddies and I've never found the neoprene comfortable, and Tritton were also just "ok" and not particularly outstanding for comfort. The big three are where people's minds usually go for "gaming headsets," though brands like Afterglow and Steelseries don't help. There are some good headsets, but like someone else (Rudy?) pointed out they're often good headphones, with a mic slapped on, and rebranded (Kingston CloudX). That said, there are exceptions... I have no complaints about the Creative H7 @ $130, for example, I like the sound better and it's far more comfortable than the CAL!2. Rarely do I backtrack on my headphone upgrade path, but I do sometimes and more often than most (appreciated Change's suggestion of the K612 way back when. I need new pads for mine). Good gaming marketed headsets are still an exception rather than the norm, and even if they sound decent they rarely are a good value for the price.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> By all accounts, the DT1770 was a fair jump in SQ upgrade over the DT770, so things look promising for the DT1990.
> 
> For you gents who tried the DT990 and DT880, which had the sharper/more irritating treble? I realized the DT880 was going too fatiguing for me to keep, but I really liked the T51p small portable and occasionally jones for it
> 
> ...




I don't roam around much like I used to, just stick to a couple subs and that's it. Not surprising this is my first time hearing about them. It's either in this thread, front page, or Massdrop that I read about new products. Even then, the front page gets overlooked most of the time because it's usually an announcement too pricey for my wallet. So, yeah, it's usually just here or MD's emails.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be honest, I'd kill for a wireless headset right now. I'm back to just wanting ultimate convenience. If the Skullcandy Plyr 1 had bigger cups, I'd just rebuy those. What even is out there that could fit that criteria nowadays? I've been so gone from the headset game, I have no clue what is out there.

Maybe I'll just get a Plyr 2, and hook it up to the X7 now that the optical out send SBX. Plyr 2 is cheaper than Plyr 1, and I don't need redundancy of surround dsps.


----------



## Change is Good

You should never have gotten rid of your 5.8. Sure, going completely wireless is the ultimate convenience, but having only the Boompro going from headphones to wireless unit is pretty convenient itself. Of course, the USB PS chat cable would be needed for such a clean setup.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Without needing an attached Mic the RS 185 and RS 195 on the X7 stomp all other wireless solutions. I prefer the RS 185 due to its openness and naturally bigger stage. Comfort is top notch, there is simply no pressure on top, on the sides, nor is there a loose headphone on your head. 
  
 SQ wise you have disadvantages due to not having a dedicated amp but I prefer it to the 598, easily, albeit not having had a direct comparison and going from memory. Wireless is a compromise but those two really make a difference in the market.


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> Without needing an attached Mic the RS 185 and RS 195 on the X7 stomp all other wireless solutions. I prefer the RS 185 due to its openness and naturally bigger stage. Comfort is top notch, there is simply no pressure on top, on the sides, nor is there a loose headphone on your head.
> 
> SQ wise you have disadvantages due to not having a dedicated amp but I prefer it to the 598, easily, albeit not having had a direct comparison and going from memory. Wireless is a compromise but those two really make a difference in the market.




Would it work on console that way? Either or, I'd need a mic (as you mention) so that would kill it for me. Main reason I keep avoiding the X7 and any other DSP is I'm not a big fan of cables running across the living room from my TV to the couch. The 5.8, no matter how inferior, avoids all of that without compromising chat options.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Would it work on console that way? Either or, I'd need a mic (as you mention) so that would kill it for me. Main reason I keep avoiding the X7 and any other DSP is I'm not a big fan of cables running across the living room from my TV to the couch. The 5.8, no matter how inferior, avoids all of that without compromising chat options.



You can always plug a lapel mic into the controller.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't even want a 5.8 solution. I want completely wireless.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> I don't even want a 5.8 solution. I want completely wireless.


 

 Tritton Katana?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> You can always plug a lapel mic into the controller.




Nah, tried that before. My controller needs to be free of any wires, very annoying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser should've just made a Game One wireless by now.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheiser should've just made a Game One wireless by now.


 
  
@Rosmadi Mahmood
  
 Given how good your RS185 and RS 195 turned out, can you pass the idea of an open-back wireless headset (with mic and chat compat. for PS4/Xbox One/PC) to the R&D team?


----------



## Change is Good

Nice! Now, who do we tag for a new wireless DSP to use with regular headphones? Haha


----------



## vi Josh

mad lust envy said:


> I don't even want a 5.8 solution. I want completely wireless.


 
 I cringe while saying this, it was the ****ty quality and the ridiculous price tag of these that resulted in me finding this site in the first place but, the turtle beach elite 800x or just 800 if on ps4 are completely wireless if nothing else... or the new astros coming out in august are going to be a similar setup, base stattion and wireless headset.


----------



## Yethal

If all other wireless solutions fail You can always buy the A50 and put beyerdynamic DT770 32ohm drivers in them.


----------



## kroms

Thanks for this thread. It's helped a lot in choosing headphones!


----------



## UggsY

Guys the ultimate Game Audio virtualization device has arrived, the Smyth realizer A16 is about to begin its Kickstarter.
 Personnalized HRTF, up to 16 virtual speakers and low latency Game Mode (3ms) for 1/3 the price of the original A8, i think it's time to throw out my MixAmp !


----------



## UggsY

Guys the ultimate audio gaming device has arrived, the Smyth Realizer A16 is about to launch its Kickstarter campaign.
 Personalized HRTF, up to 16 virtual speakers and low latency game mode for 1/3rd the price of the original realizer (£750 for the first pledge) i think it's time to thow out my MixAmp!


----------



## kroms

uggsy said:


> Guys the ultimate audio gaming device has arrived, the Smyth Realizer A16 is about to launch its Kickstarter campaign.
> Personalized HRTF, up to 16 virtual speakers and low latency game mode for 1/3rd the price of the original realizer i think it's time to thow out my MixAmp!


 
 for $1595....


----------



## NamelessPFG

Even more awesome... and still way, way out of my budget.

 I just wish Smyth Research would actually manage to license the SVS tech out to all those AVR manufacturers, where it would make the most sense to integrate. They'd have economies of scale going for them at that point.


----------



## Evshrug

Unless the fiancé can make a compelling counter-argument, I'm going to make an A16 happen in my home, one way or another.

I've squirreled away money, I'm trying to sell some things, and two in-laws are determined to do our catering (actually despite our wishes) at my wedding, and the Realiser is one thing I've really wanted since hearing about it years ago. A personalized EQ for your head and headphones, head tracking, 16 virtual speaker support for a truly 3D directional support (7.1 is only a 2D "ring"), multiple HDMI inputs and independently-controlled dual headphone outputs (or optical/coax outputs for each), and decent internal headphone DAC and Amp components push it to the summit right now for capability. I think it's important that it's compatible with basically any media or source.

$1,600 is definitely a lot of money and definitely gives me pause. But, I can actually consider it as a "for life" investment, while the A8's $2,500 price just made me want to discount it as a possibility out of hand. The Realisers also aren't the easiest to set up... The personalized EQs only come from spending time with in-ear microphones and test tones, possibly/ideally visiting a music studio. There are generic HRTFs that sound pretty good, but if I've learned anything from Mad Lust Envy, NamelessPFG, and I (and others) hearing and sharing the same gear and media and yet having different personal preferences, is that everyone's sense of hearing is unique.

Lastly, I disagree that licensing out SVS to home theater manufacturers would help anything. Maybe SVS is a little better than Dolby Headphone or Silent Cinema, but that's only one one ingredient in the Realiser's secret sauce alongside the head-tracking and personalized auto-EQ. The way I look at it, if you want surround, get a Mixamp/DSS, if you want to listen with surround and upgraded components, get an X7, if you want surround and head-tracking, get a Beyerdynamic Headzone or a VR setup, but if you want the trifecta of surround, head-tracking, and realism from personalized EQ/HRTF, then Smyth sits at the top.


----------



## NamelessPFG

evshrug said:


> Lastly, I disagree that licensing out SVS to home theater manufacturers would help anything. Maybe SVS is a little better than Dolby Headphone or Silent Cinema, but that's only one one ingredient in the Realiser's secret sauce alongside the head-tracking and personalized auto-EQ. The way I look at it, if you want surround, get a Mixamp/DSS, if you want to listen with surround and upgraded components, get an X7, if you want surround and head-tracking, get a Beyerdynamic Headzone or a VR setup, but if you want the trifecta of surround, head-tracking, and realism from personalized EQ/HRTF, then Smyth sits at the top.


 

 The implication was that licensing out SVS would require the PRIR and head-tracking to be implemented into the AVR in the first place, otherwise it's just not SVS for the very reasons you mentioned.
  
 I mean, think about it: the only people likely to have access to a decent surround sound speaker system to make a good PRIR with are those who'd pay good money for an AVR and the speakers connected to it, and many higher-end setups already support a microphone for channel level and room calibration to an extent. Earbud microphones are the logical next step.
  
 Also, it's practically the _only_ headphone surround processor to accept HDMI LPCM surround, which also means it's one of the few options to get proper headphone surround out of a Wii U if you can't hunt down a Dolby Headphone-enabled AVR.
  
 Best of luck with the sales, by the way! I'm actually trying to sell some stuff myself, but nobody's biting, so I understand how hard it is.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Unless the fiancé can make a compelling counter-argument, I'm going to make an A16 happen in my home, one way or another.
> 
> $1,600 is definitely a lot of money and definitely gives me pause. But, I can actually consider it as a "for life" investment, while the A8's $2,500 price just made me want to discount it as a possibility out of hand. The Realisers also aren't the easiest to set up... The personalized EQs only come from spending time with in-ear microphones and test tones, possibly/ideally visiting a music studio. There are generic HRTFs that sound pretty good, but if I've learned anything from Mad Lust Envy, NamelessPFG, and I (and others) hearing and sharing the same gear and media and yet having different personal preferences, is that everyone's sense of hearing is unique.


 
 I'd get a comfier couch just in case.
  
 If I remember correctly, it's possible to get personalized Smyth measurements at any of their dealers.
   
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Also, it's practically the _only_ headphone surround processor to accept HDMI LPCM surround, which also means it's one of the few options to get proper headphone surround out of a Wii U if you can't hunt down a Dolby Headphone-enabled AVR.


 
  
 Tritton Katana is such a device.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Tritton Katana is such a device.


 
  
 I'd never even considered it because it's a wireless gaming headset - a deadly combination around these parts for people who want to use their audiophile-grade headphones.
  
 It doesn't even have a typical headphone jack on the DSP/transceiver box, so it only works with the headset.
  
 Here's hoping we see more options soon that close the gap between the typical S/PDIF-only devices and the new Realiser A16.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> I'd never even considered it because it's a wireless gaming headset - a deadly combination around these parts for people who want to use their audiophile-grade headphones.
> 
> It doesn't even have a typical headphone jack on the DSP/transceiver box, so it only works with the headset.
> 
> Here's hoping we see more options soon that close the gap between the typical S/PDIF-only devices and the new Realiser A16.


 

 The headset itself is probably mediocre. However I think that it's possible to extract the wireless receiver from the headset and solder a 3.5mm headphones and microphone jacks to it and use it like the Mixamp 5.8


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> 16 virtual speaker support for a truly 3D directional support (7.1 is only a 2D "ring")


 
 Isn't that kind of pointless unless content is specifically produced for it?
  
 One of my gripes with surround sound in video games is the fact that you have no real sense of up and down. Allegedly one Creative's old technologies did use similar kind of techniques to how they give the impression for in front/behind you for cues that are supposed to be above or below, but it was scrapped for some reason (less devs wanting to use their proprietary technology and having to pay the license fee?). It also allegedly modeled the Dopler effect (which sounds pretty cool to me).
  
 There was a point where basically any self respecting gamer had a Sound Blaster in their PC. Nowadays most people are perfectly happy to use onboard audio unless they need specific features or consider themselves audiophiles. This means that we are dependant on Dolby or DTS to move the technology forward, but because their efforts aren't exclusively tied to improving gaming audio, gamer-centric features don't get the kind of attention they did when Creative had the market largely to themselves.


----------



## Change is Good

Any of you guys have experience with the Beyer custom street?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser is releasing another headset, with 7.1 surround. Honestly looks like a PC360/Game One but with an inherent surround dsp.

Still, it IS Sennheiser, so color me interested.

ALso, for the price of the new Realizer, I'd DEFINITELY use those funds for a new PC rig instead.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheiser is releasing another headset, with 7.1 surround. Honestly looks like a PC360/Game One but with an inherent surround dsp.


 
   
What's it called, or does it not have a name yet?


----------



## Change is Good

napalmhardcore said:


> What's it called, or does it not have a name yet?




It's on the front page of head-fi.




mad lust envy said:


> Sennheiser is releasing another headset, with 7.1 surround. Honestly looks like a PC360/Game One but with an inherent surround dsp.
> 
> Still, it IS Sennheiser, so color me interested.
> 
> ALso, for the price of the new Realizer, I'd DEFINITELY use those funds for a new PC rig instead.




I thought you wanted a headset that was completely wireless?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> It's on the front page of head-fi.


 
 Thanks. The lack of details regarding the specifics of the hardware (drivers etc) in the OP gives me the feeling it's going to be basically the same as one of their existing headsets, just with the Dolby dongle. If that's the case, I'm really not interested. Any dongle/processor has to be multi-platform to grab my interest.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Any of you guys have experience with the Beyer custom street?


 

 Isn't the custom street just a smaller version of Custom One Pro?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Isn't the custom street just a smaller version of Custom One Pro?


 
  
 Yeah, just wanted to see if anyone is familiar with its sound quality and soundstage for being an on ear. I can get one for pretty cheap.


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> Isn't that kind of pointless unless content is specifically produced for it?
> 
> One of my gripes with surround sound in video games is the fact that you have no real sense of up and down. Allegedly one Creative's old technologies did use similar kind of techniques to how they give the impression for in front/behind you for cues that are supposed to be above or below, but it was scrapped for some reason (less devs wanting to use their proprietary technology and having to pay the license fee?). It also allegedly modeled the Dopler effect (which sounds pretty cool to me).



OpenAL. Which is still part of the Mac OS core audio stack, I believe... just that games weren't coded to take advantage of it's libraries

Creative combined OpenAL with their proprietary EAX 5.0 effects, and worked more closely with game devs to have the feature coded in games. I think there were only about 16 notable games made to support it before Windows Vista came out and Microsoft totally changed the audio stack. Creative made work-around software called ALchemy, but basically FMOD and WWISE rose to favor instead because they were also console compatible. Made porting games and reaching a wider consumer demographic easier. NamelessPFG has more details because I wasn't in PC gaming at all at this time, but the above is basically the gist of it.

Now, a lot of Blu-Ray movies aren't just encoded in DTS, but DTS-X with height channels. It's even starting to show up in some console games. There's even a home theater encoding format with speakers above AND below the seating position, ambisonics IIRC (it's referenced in the Smyth Realiser video):

[video]https://youtu.be/3mZhN3OG-tc[/video]

Also, with VR becoming popular, more attention is coming to a complete 3D experience including audio. I pointed out a while ago in my "if I knew then..." thread linked in my posting signature that, basically, the consoles are 3D audio capable with dedicated sound processors, and exciting times are ahead of us.


----------



## Evshrug

Supported the project!
http://kck.st/2aFlTCg

The Kickstarter did begin an hour before they said in the email, but even so it looks like the project is already 1/4 funded! Kiiiiinda cool.
It's definitely a financial stretch for me, I talked about it today to my friends, my my customers at work, and my fiancé, but eventually I decided I could swing it (and I don't have to sleep on the couch tonight!). For anyone curious, I was the 31st backer, and it looks like there's still 168 early bird priced units available (about $1k USD, price after Kickstarter will be $1600).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> OpenAL. Which is still part of the Mac OS core audio stack, I believe... just that games weren't coded to take advantage of it's libraries
> 
> Creative combined OpenAL with their proprietary EAX 5.0 effects, and worked more closely with game devs to have the feature coded in games. I think there were only about 16 notable games made to support it before Windows Vista came out and Microsoft totally changed the audio stack. Creative made work-around software called ALchemy, but basically FMOD and WWISE rose to favor instead because they were also console compatible. Made porting games and reaching a wider consumer demographic easier. NamelessPFG has more details because I wasn't in PC gaming at all at this time, but the above is basically the gist of it.
> 
> ...


 

 I must admit that it does seem very appealing. I think I'll have to wait until the technology trickles down to a more wallet friendly product. Hopefully by then DTS-X/Dolby Atmos etc will be more widely used, though I'm guessing you'll still get the benefit of headtracking and the user calibration for 5.1 and 7.1 sources.


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, the first Realiser came out in 2008-9, at $2500, so I think this already is the iterative, trickle down price. Also, there's still some early bird prices available at basically $1,000 after shipping, which is $600-$700 less than it will cost after the Kickstarter (and probably less than the resale value if you end up not using it). Way less cost than buying and having a DTS X, Dolby ATMOS, or Ambisonics speaker setup and installation.

I understand NamelessPFG's point about how it could fit with AVR receivers, except receivers are primarily a speaker product and the Realiser tech is primarily for headphones... To buy a receiver good enough to decently power a 16 speaker setup AND add a complex tracking and processing component to equalize sound live for a PRIR, that combo would not be cheaper than an A16.


----------



## Vader2k

evshrug said:


> I mean, the first Realiser came out in 2008-9, at $2500, so I think this already is the iterative, trickle down price. Also, there's still some early bird prices available at basically $1,000 after shipping, which is $600-$700 less than it will cost after the Kickstarter (and probably less than the resale value if you end up not using it). Way less cost than buying and having a DTS X, Dolby ATMOS, or Ambisonics speaker setup and installation.


 
  
 It's definitely cool that you jumped on it Evs, it'll be great to hear your impressions.  I'm sorely tempted to, especially at the early bird pricing.  It'll sting at first for sure, but the longterm value of the device and endgame nature (for me anyway) of it are making it hard to pass up.
  
 One thing I'm curious about and can't seem to find in the details on the campaign page, will the A16 work with most mid and top-tier headphones, or will it only be ideal with a select range?  I seem to remember something about the A8 that it worked best with a specific set of cans despite being able to generally work with most headphones.  For me personally, I'm curious to know if it will work fine with my TH-X00 and K7XX as I likely won't be getting any new cans for a long time.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

I think it should. Based on the video, there was someone using the realizer for gaming with the Sennheiser GAME ZERO, so I'm sure it should work fine. The only thing that I would be concerned with is where you would put the head tracking unit on the K7XX. 
  
 Quote:


vader2k said:


> It's definitely cool that you jumped on it Evs, it'll be great to hear your impressions.  I'm sorely tempted to, especially at the early bird pricing.  It'll sting at first for sure, but the longterm value of the device and endgame nature (for me anyway) of it are making it hard to pass up.
> 
> One thing I'm curious about and can't seem to find in the details on the campaign page, will the A16 work with most mid and top-tier headphones, or will it only be ideal with a select range?  I seem to remember something about the A8 that it worked best with a specific set of cans despite being able to generally work with most headphones.  For me personally, I'm curious to know if it will work fine with my TH-X00 and K7XX as I likely won't be getting any new cans for a long time.


----------



## Evshrug

@Vader2k,
Headphones with better resolution, fast decay, and flatter response are a more capable canvas for recreating the sound of various speakers in various positions. I think the point isn't just direction... The headphones are also supposed to be EQ'd to have the same sound character as the speaker (and the effect your face, head width, and body have on the HRTF). I'm new to this, never having demo'd it even, but I assume you don't HAVE to EQ the headphones (and most higher-quality headphones have a fair bit of EQ room), but doing so enhances the illusion. If I decide to keep my K612 instead of passing them along, I'll be sure to test that with the Realiser, so you and people with the K7XX can get an impression of the sound.

I totally understand not wanting to change headphones often or spend more money (my time keeping the K612 is racking up now!), but if I were to make a prediction/suggestion, I bet you would be pleased if you kept your TH-X00 for fun and isolation, but traded your K7XX for a Stax SR202 or SR2107 setup. Fostex headphones are a fun stylized sound treat for sure, but the ability of a Stax setup to reproduce a performance is uncanny and next-level! (I think NamelessPFG is selling his whole two-headphone Stax Lambda setup for a stupidly-low price right now).

@MonsieurNiceGuy,
I'd probably attach the tracker to the head bars?


----------



## SirMagnificat

I really wish there were a Dolby Headphone DSP with a proper line out, and just more of them on the market in general. Are Dolby's licensing terms really that bad, or are there just so few headphone enthusiasts that also game?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Sennheiser is releasing another headset, with 7.1 surround. Honestly looks like a PC360/Game One but with an inherent surround dsp.
> 
> Still, it IS Sennheiser, so color me interested.
> 
> ALso, for the price of the new Realizer, I'd DEFINITELY use those funds for a new PC rig instead.


 

 Appearently it's a rebrand of their PC363D which also comes with a USB Dongle to give you Dolby Headphone. Nothing new here but just a new color scheme and name.... 
  
 EDIT: So far thats what some people have commented on Sennheiser's Facebook page...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Totally unrelated to anything on the thread, but I had to share. I'm an idiot. Since I've had my monitor, videos have suffered from screen tearing. My old monitor didn't seem to have this problem (or at least I don't remember it being a problem) but I had it connected via HDMI and my current monitor is dual link DVI. When connected via HDMI there is a list of HDTV resolutions, so I used to set it to 1080p. With my current monitor there are only PC resolutions available. I searched Google a couple of times but the searches I entered brought back results that weren't particularly helpful, so I just put it down to the possibility that the framerate of 1080p/720p video was slightly mismatched with my particular display (thinking maybe it was 59.?? Hz when it should be 60 Hz or vice versa).
  
 Tonight I watched a few Youtube videos on my PS3 and the lack of tearing really stood out (I'd kind of got used to it). This got me annoyed that my main means of watching video (my PC) sucked so badly in comparison and set out to find an answer. I came across a thread on the Nvidia forums where people were complaining about their high end GTX 970 and 980 cards tearing when playing videos. The reply was to enable Windows Aero (or set V-sync either globally or for specific applications). I'd always thought Windows Aero was simply to make stuff like icons look a bit more fancy so I'd never bothered with it. Turns out it also handles vertical sync for videos (and I think internet browsers too). So for more than two years I've been watching videos with tearing and getting annoyed when a scene pans a lot or there is a flash (lightning/gunfire) because it makes the tearing incredibly obvious. Now I find out all I had to do was change one simple setting. Yeah, like I said, I'm an idiot.
  
 On a note related to the thread. With the Realiser, I'm a bit puzzled. In the description it says that the HRTF is kind of what makes the whole thing come together. However it sounds like you have to calibrate this using the speaker setup that you are trying to emulate. Isn't the whole point that you can't afford this kind of speaker setup? Would the HRTF calibration not be compromised without an ideal speaker setup to perform it?


----------



## Vader2k

monsieurniceguy said:


> I think it should. Based on the video, there was someone using the realizer for gaming with the Sennheiser GAME ZERO, so I'm sure it should work fine. The only thing that I would be concerned with is where you would put the head tracking unit on the K7XX.


 
  
 Oh, good point.  Likely the bars as Evs mentioned below, but I agree they are a bit wobbly.
  


evshrug said:


> @Vader2k,
> Headphones with better resolution, fast decay, and flatter response are a more capable canvas for recreating the sound of various speakers in various positions. I think the point isn't just direction... The headphones are also supposed to be EQ'd to have the same sound character as the speaker (and the effect your face, head width, and body have on the HRTF). I'm new to this, never having demo'd it even, but I assume you don't HAVE to EQ the headphones (and most higher-quality headphones have a fair bit of EQ room), but doing so enhances the illusion. If I decide to keep my K612 instead of passing them along, I'll be sure to test that with the Realiser, so you and people with the K7XX can get an impression of the sound.
> 
> I totally understand not wanting to change headphones often or spend more money (my time keeping the K612 is racking up now!), but if I were to make a prediction/suggestion, I bet you would be pleased if you kept your TH-X00 for fun and isolation, but traded your K7XX for a Stax SR202 or SR2107 setup. Fostex headphones are a fun stylized sound treat for sure, but the ability of a Stax setup to reproduce a performance is uncanny and next-level! (I think NamelessPFG is selling his whole two-headphone Stax Lambda setup for a stupidly-low price right now).
> ...


 
  
 Ah, ok.  I didn't even occur to me that the headphones would be EQ'ed as well, but that makes sense.  Thanks for recommendation of the Stax.  A different/upgraded pair of headphones isn't completely out of the question, it would just have to happen far down the road.  The A16 would leave quite the dent for a while!


----------



## Raimo Ainla

Hi guys - this is my first post here.
 I apologize if it's in the wrong section - please redirect it!
  
 I currently own a pair of Qpad QH90 and DT 770 32 ohm version. I listen to music and game 50/50. I'm not an audiophile but I obviously really enjoy high quality sound. I play competitively and my apartment is not that big, so I need isolation and a closed (or at least semi-closed, if the isolation is good enough) headphone. I've read this guide through and through and asked questions elsewhere, but haven't really found an answer to my question.

 My question is: Could someone recommend me as comfortable as possible and perhaps better sounding DT770 / QH90 (pretty much the same as HyperX, iirc, it's a rebranded Beyerdynamics product). I enjoy the sound of both headphones, but I find the Qpad QH90 to be much more comfortable as I've a big head and larger ears. I find the DT 770s press under the ear lobes, so after 1 hour or so I feel pain and pressure. I've tried to stretch the headband endlessly, but this does not help. The clamp is not the issue. This does not happen on the qh90, as its clamp is stronger, but there is no pain. I came to the conclusion that it's the structure of the speakers themselves, where they distribute the pressure much more equally than the DT 770.


 So, atm I prefer to use the Qpad QH90s. They have more midrange and to my ears a more fun, full and balanced sound, although the DT 770s have slightly more clarity and soundstage.
 I'm using a Creative X-Fi Titanium in my PC, which is more than enough for my needs in most cases. I have also compared the sound on different smartphones.
  
  
 I have looked at B&O H6 v2, but it seems that it's uncomfortable due to the small pads. I don't want the ear to touch the speaker.
 Sony MDR1 but heard it has poor isolation and not the deepest earcups.
 Meze 99 classics look good, but seems like earcups are on the small side and would become uncomfortable.
 Don't mind if it is a headset.
  
 Headsets/headphones that I found comfortable - QH90, Roccat Kave (sound quality is trash, but earcups insanely comfy), Logitech G35, Sennheiser hd 598 (open)

 So, priority top list as follows, with 1 being the most important : 1) comfort 2) sound quality 3) enough soundstage for competitive gaming 4) good enough isolation 5) enough mids and bass to have balanced/fun sound 6) price

 I live in Scandinavia and my max budget is 250-300 euros. Can go a bit over 300 if it's worth it. I won't order from US amazon and don't wanna import from some faraway country.

 Thanks,
 R


----------



## Yethal

raimo ainla said:


> Hi guys - this is my first post here.
> I apologize if it's in the wrong section - please redirect it!
> 
> I currently own a pair of Qpad QH90 and DT 770 32 ohm version. I listen to music and game 50/50. I'm not an audiophile but I obviously really enjoy high quality sound. I play competitively and my apartment is not that big, so I need isolation and a closed (or at least semi-closed, if the isolation is good enough) headphone. I've read this guide through and through and asked questions elsewhere, but haven't really found an answer to my question.
> ...


 

 AKG K series?


----------



## Raimo Ainla

yethal said:


> AKG K series?


 
 Thanks. Which one though?


----------



## Yethal

raimo ainla said:


> Thanks. Which one though?


 
 Whichever one from the K7 series You can afford. That, Sennheiser HD598 or Fidelio X2.


----------



## Raimo Ainla

yethal said:


> Whichever one from the K7 series You can afford. That, Sennheiser HD598 or Fidelio X2.


 


 Thanks for the suggestions, I did mention that it needs to be closed back, due to the nature of my apartment. I don't think I'll get the open back ones. If I lived alone, then maybe.


----------



## Yethal

raimo ainla said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, I did mention that it needs to be closed back, due to the nature of my apartment. I don't think I'll get the open back ones. If I lived alone, then maybe.


 

 It's a bit of an exeggaration. It's not that leakage from open headphones is *that *disturbing for other people. Unless You have a baby sleeping in the same room and the baby is super sensitive it should be okay.


----------



## Raimo Ainla

yethal said:


> It's a bit of an exeggaration. It's not that leakage from open headphones is *that *disturbing for other people. Unless You have a baby sleeping in the same room and the baby is super sensitive it should be okay.


 
 Well no. But I find that I'm unable to focus when people make sounds in my apartment. Or when there's kids around as guests - unplayable. Even closed headphones with cloth pads are kinda bad at that.


----------



## shuto77

raimo ainla said:


> Well no. But I find that I'm unable to focus when people make sounds in my apartment. Or when there's kids around as guests - unplayable. Even closed headphones with cloth pads are kinda bad at that.




What kind of sound card, dac, or amp are you using? 

I can recommend the RBH-HP2 and NAD Viso Hp50 as good, comfortable closed-back options. The Beyerdynamic Dt1770 and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs (discontinued, but often available in the Classifieds) are also great closed backs. 

I personally found the Meze 99 Classics uncomfortable, but they are said to be better with the new, larger ear pads. 

What's your price range?


----------



## Change is Good

I remember the Oppo PM3 having good isolation when I demoed it for about a week. It's also Boompro compatible, pretty easy to drive, and a great all rounder for music and games.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> I remember the Oppo PM3 having good isolation when I demoed it for about a week. It's also Boompro compatible, pretty easy to drive, and a great all rounder for music and games.




This is a good choice too!


----------



## Raimo Ainla

shuto77 said:


> What kind of sound card, dac, or amp are you using?
> 
> I can recommend the RBH-HP2 and NAD Viso Hp50 as good, comfortable closed-back options. The Beyerdynamic Dt1770 and MrSpeakers Alpha Dogs (discontinued, but often available in the Classifieds) are also great closed backs.
> 
> ...


 


 I actually wrote it in the post. Soundcard is Creative X-Fi Titanium. Price range is 250-300 max. Can be more if it is worth it.I think they don't even sell those cans here that you named.


----------



## Change is Good

raimo ainla said:


> I actually wrote it in the post. Soundcard is Creative X-Fi Titanium. Price range is 250-300 max. Can be more if it is worth it.I think they don't even sell those cans here that you named.




Go for the Oppo I mentioned.


----------



## Evshrug

Raimo,
It's hard to say. It seems that you like particularly tall Earpads, to keep from putting pressure on earlobes, and deeper pads. Just so you know, deeper pads mess with the sound signature.

I liked the Oppo PM-3, it's a very capable and detailed closed headphone. I found the pads surprisingly comfortable, but there's a catch: they're still going to touch your ears. The material and the padding is plush and has a great squishiness, so I actually didn't mind it touching my ear, and that also contributed to it blocking sound a bit better. I also had to fiddle with it to find an angle I liked the comfort, but there's a sweet spot and once you hit it you can wear the headphones for hours.

Soundmagic also makes good closed headphones within your price range, they're mostly known for making pads that people like to use with other headphones for comfort reasons.

For $129 USD, I'm actually pleased with the Creative BlasterX H7 headset. Nothing wrong with the sound signature and seems to sound better than the price suggests, I like it better and find it more comfortable than the CAL!2. The Earpads are again soft and squishy, the clamp pressure seems like a nice balance, the style is similar to your DT770 except the pads are pleather and are more squishy/softer. You can detach the mic if you want, connect with USB or a regular headphone cable, and it just works well.

The AKG K553 is in your price range when I look at stores here, that could be one for you to check out too.

Lastly, there's nothing that blocks out distracting sound and is as easily customizable for comfort as an IEM... Try some Audio Technica IEMs within your budget.


----------



## Raimo Ainla

evshrug said:


> Raimo,
> It's hard to say. It seems that you like particularly tall Earpads, to keep from putting pressure on earlobes, and deeper pads. Just so you know, deeper pads mess with the sound signature.
> 
> I liked the Oppo PM-3, it's a very capable and detailed closed headphone. I found the pads surprisingly comfortable, but there's a catch: they're still going to touch your ears. The material and the padding is plush and has a great squishiness, so I actually didn't mind it touching my ear, and that also contributed to it blocking sound a bit better. I also had to fiddle with it to find an angle I liked the comfort, but there's a sweet spot and once you hit it you can wear the headphones for hours.
> ...


 
  
  
 Seems like the H7 is a good alternative. Can you connect straight to sound card or does it have its own built in one? Are the earpads deep enough?


----------



## Change is Good

Might want to also check out the Beyer T70. I've read some good things about it especially at the discounted price they were offered for around the holidays.


----------



## Raimo Ainla

evshrug said:


> Raimo,
> It's hard to say. It seems that you like particularly tall Earpads, to keep from putting pressure on earlobes, and deeper pads. Just so you know, deeper pads mess with the sound signature.
> 
> I liked the Oppo PM-3, it's a very capable and detailed closed headphone. I found the pads surprisingly comfortable, but there's a catch: they're still going to touch your ears. The material and the padding is plush and has a great squishiness, so I actually didn't mind it touching my ear, and that also contributed to it blocking sound a bit better. I also had to fiddle with it to find an angle I liked the comfort, but there's a sweet spot and once you hit it you can wear the headphones for hours.
> ...


 
 Would you say the H7 sounds on par with the K553? I guess the H7 doesn't have compatible clothpads for order?


----------



## Change is Good

If any of you new rev HE-400i or PM1/2 owners need an adapter to use your BoomPro with, I'm your guy. I have mine listed in the classifieds (also in my signature) but figured I'd let you fellow gamers know, if interested, since the cable section often gets overlooked.


----------



## Evshrug

raimo ainla said:


> Seems like the H7 is a good alternative. Can you connect straight to sound card or does it have its own built in one? Are the earpads deep enough?



You can connect the H7 straight to a sound card if you use the analog cable, and yes it does have a built-in one that you can use as an alternative. I felt the earpads were deep enough (and the Oppo PM-3 earpads were deep enough), and large enough, but not as large and ear-free as the cavernous cups in the (open) Sennheiser HD700 and HD800.



raimo ainla said:


> Would you say the H7 sounds on par with the K553? I guess the H7 doesn't have compatible clothpads for order?



Honestly, I didn't say much about the K553 because I haven't heard it myself, I just know that it's AKG (I've owned 3 open AKGs) with big earcup openings and a closed-back. I still think you could/should look into it and reviews. The H7 is less expensive and you get what you pay for, it doesn't have exhilarating performance _but_ I can't point to any part of it and say "that's a flaw" (other than my particular unit has the R/L channels reversed if I plug it into my PS4 using USB, though that could just be a settings issue, and sounds normal with the analog cable). Creative doesn't make cloth pads for it themselves, but it's quite possible other cloth pads may connect or be compatible... but I thought you specifically pointed out that cloth pads ruined the noise isolation of your current headphones?


----------



## Raimo Ainla

evshrug said:


> You can connect the H7 straight to a sound card if you use the analog cable, and yes it does have a built-in one that you can use as an alternative. I felt the earpads were deep enough (and the Oppo PM-3 earpads were deep enough), and large enough, but not as large and ear-free as the cavernous cups in the (open) Sennheiser HD700 and HD800.
> Honestly, I didn't say much about the K553 because I haven't heard it myself, I just know that it's AKG (I've owned 3 open AKGs) with big earcup openings and a closed-back. I still think you could/should look into it and reviews. The H7 is less expensive and you get what you pay for, it doesn't have exhilarating performance _but_ I can't point to any part of it and say "that's a flaw" (other than my particular unit has the R/L channels reversed if I plug it into my PS4 using USB, though that could just be a settings issue, and sounds normal with the analog cable). Creative doesn't make cloth pads for it themselves, but it's quite possible other cloth pads may connect or be compatible... but I thought you specifically pointed out that cloth pads ruined the noise isolation of your current headphones?




Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into it. The earcups don't have to be massive-they just need to spread out the clamp force evenly (preferably not against the ears). But then again this impossible to know for certain from mere web images. I find that most youtubbers or video reviewers leave out important details to mention and praise everything. And 95% say the same sentence :' these are the best headphones that I've owned' without explaining or comparing it to any others.

As for isolation, what I do is use cloth pads in the summer and leatherettes in the winter. Yes cloth pads don't isolate as well, but with my dt 770s or qpad qh90s even on cloth pads I get just enough isolation. For example if my wife is listening to music from speakers (moderate volumes) during my competitive match... well I just can't focus or perform the same. I'm not that picky about it, but just seems like open headphones will not be the best. I also use headphones during travel sometimes, so all the more reason to get closed ones. 
On a side note, I tried to bend the metal band from the point where it connects to the earcups themselves, rather than on the top and got a much better result in terms of comfort. It does warp the visual look/structure a bit. Let's see how it holds up. Didn't seem to alter the rigidity though.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Creative doesn't make cloth pads for it themselves, but it's quite possible other cloth pads may connect or be compatible... but I thought you specifically pointed out that cloth pads ruined the noise isolation of your current headphones?


 
 Since you bring up cloth pads Evs, do you (or anyone) know if I could get cloth/fabric pads for my K240 mkiis? I was using the velvet pads that came with them for a while but they attract fluff and dust like a magnet and I got sick of de-fluffing them all the time so I'm currently using the vinyl pads. I loved the material on my old Turtle Beach PX21 headset and would love to have something similar on my AKGs (or any other headphone for that matter as it's pretty much my ideal material). I made a thread asking quite some time back but got no replies.


----------



## Evshrug

Turtle Beach pad are neoprene I believe... Maybe you'd like Shure's Alcantara pads? Change is Good loves Alcantara! I don't know which all headphones they would fit... Apparently they can do wonders for the Fostex T50RP, for example.

Maybe the closed Fostex (T20RP, I believe?) plus some Alcantara pads would be a great solution for Raimo, too? Should be within the budget, but TX0RP drivers are POWER HUNGRY suckers, and benefit fro a good amp immensely.


----------



## Yethal

Since we're on the earpads topic. Discovery of the day, Shure earpads fit Beyerdynamic headphones. And they are comfy as hell.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Turtle Beach pad are neoprene I believe... Maybe you'd like Shure's Alcantara pads? Change is Good loves Alcantara! I don't know which all headphones they would fit... Apparently they can do wonders for the Fostex T50RP, for example.
> 
> Maybe the closed Fostex (T20RP, I believe?) plus some Alcantara pads would be a great solution for Raimo, too? Should be within the budget, but TX0RP drivers are POWER HUNGRY suckers, and benefit fro a good amp immensely.


 

 I think they use different materials for different headsets. I'm not entirely sure what material the PX21 had but it was kind of a fabric mesh/weave that breathed well and I found ideal.
  
 I've been having a problem over the past few days. When I've been using headphones my ear has been kind of tensing up. I Googled it and apparently it is a muscle called the tensor tympani and it is spasming. Strangely, it doesn't happen while sound is playing but in the moments of silence like loading screens etc. Apparently it is the ears way of protecting you against loud sounds and it can spasm in anticipation of loud sounds, however I always have my headphones at a relatively low volume.
  
 I'm hoping this is a temporary irritation, otherwise my headphone days may be over


----------



## rudyae86

For those that are PC gamers and need an upgrade on their GPU, EVGA is selling B-Stock 980 Ti's for cheap. Classified and FTW versions are going for $320! Pretty good deal considering how much GTX 1070s are going for and perform similarly.
  
 The only bad thing is the shipping which the lowest comes out to 17 bucks for ground shipping.
  
 For me it would come out to $368 with shipping and tax fees, which is still a pretty good price considering I paid $350 for my 980 Ti FTW.
  
 980 Ti still is a very powerful card IMO and will keep up at least for another 2 years.
  
 http://www.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=8


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Turtle Beach pad are neoprene I believe... Maybe you'd like Shure's Alcantara pads? Change is Good loves Alcantara! I don't know which all headphones they would fit... Apparently they can do wonders for the Fostex T50RP, for example.
> 
> Maybe the closed Fostex (T20RP, I believe?) plus some Alcantara pads would be a great solution for Raimo, too? Should be within the budget, but TX0RP drivers are POWER HUNGRY suckers, and benefit fro a good amp immensely.




Yes I do. The HP200 is the only headphone I liked them on, sonically, however. I have my eyes on the Philips L2, but it seems like changing pads will be a pain in the ass.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> Since we're on the earpads topic. Discovery of the day, Shure earpads fit Beyerdynamic headphones. And they are comfy as hell.


 
  
 Are those the Alcantara pads I've heard so much about? That might be something to add to my list whenever I get around to fixing up the MMX 300 with a replacement driver.
  


rudyae86 said:


> For those that are PC gamers and need an upgrade on their GPU, EVGA is selling B-Stock 980 Ti's for cheap. Classified and FTW versions are going for $320! Pretty good deal considering how much GTX 1070s are going for and perform similarly.
> 
> The only bad thing is the shipping which the lowest comes out to 17 bucks for ground shipping.
> 
> ...


 
 Tempting, I admit, but not a big enough step up from my GTX 980 to warrant the money spent. Still a good deal if you need one of the fastest cards to still have VGA output support, though.
  
 Also note that these sales are pretty good for PSUs as well if you're doing a whole new build or need some more headroom for multi-GPU setups.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I was just wondering, has anyone here tried using a mixer/audio interface with a PS3/PS4 to use an XLR mic? I've heard of people doing it with various mixers, but there's very little info on what works and what doesn't.
  
 I read comments from a couple of people saying that anything that is USB class compliant will be detected as a mic. I tried my Focusrite 6i6 with the PS3 (my dad is currently borrowing my PS4) about a week or so back and it didn't work. I'm pretty sure it is supposed to act as a class compliant device in the absence of dedicated drivers. It's possible that there is a way to make it work as you can configure how the audio is routed when not connected to a computer for standalone use, but it didn't work the way I had it configured (and I have my doubts it will work).
  
 I'm interested in the Xenyx QX1002USB but don't really want to go ahead and buy it if it doesn't work. I'm pretty sure the Xenyx 302USB is supposed to work as well as some of the Alesis MultiMix mixers. Unfortunately I can't find confirmation on the mixer I'm actually interested in.
  
 I figure that this is on topic as it is about a mic solution to accompany headphones.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> Are those the Alcantara pads I've heard so much about? That might be something to add to my list whenever I get around to fixing up the MMX 300 with a replacement driver.


 
 Nah, these are regular velour pads, but quite comfy on the COP.


napalmhardcore said:


> I was just wondering, has anyone here tried using a mixer/audio interface with a PS3/PS4 to use an XLR mic? I've heard of people doing it with various mixers, but there's very little info on what works and what doesn't.
> 
> I read comments from a couple of people saying that anything that is USB class compliant will be detected as a mic. I tried my Focusrite 6i6 with the PS3 (my dad is currently borrowing my PS4) about a week or so back and it didn't work. I'm pretty sure it is supposed to act as a class compliant device in the absence of dedicated drivers. It's possible that there is a way to make it work as you can configure how the audio is routed when not connected to a computer for standalone use, but it didn't work the way I had it configured (and I have my doubts it will work).
> 
> ...


 

 For an audio device to work on PS3/PS4 it must use the standard USB Audio Class. It is a common practice for devices which combine several different functionalities to be internally programmed to appear as either the Unspecified Class, or Vendor Specific class, in which case Windows parses the interface descriptors in order to guess what drivers are to be loaded. If You want to use an XLR mic with the PS4, use the focusrite as the preamp, and output the microphone via the line-out to a separate analog to digital converter.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Nah, these are regular velour pads, but quite comfy on the COP.
> 
> For an audio device to work on PS3/PS4 it must use the standard USB Audio Class. It is a common practice for devices which combine several different functionalities to be internally programmed to appear as either the Unspecified Class, or Vendor Specific class, in which case Windows parses the interface descriptors in order to guess what drivers are to be loaded. If You want to use an XLR mic with the PS4, use the focusrite as the preamp, and output the microphone via the line-out to a separate analog to digital converter.


 

 I guess I could use an Alesis Linelink or something similar. I may pick up the mixer as it has some useful features and if it doesn't work on its own, use the line to USB adapter.


----------



## Yethal

******* Beyers. I tried to fix a slight buzzing in my left cup, which required disassembly of the headphone. Accidentally broke the threading on the slider.
 " - That is not a big problem, You can always buy spare parts from Beyerdynamic and replace the broken one." - Yeah, I thought so too. Turns out there are no distributors in Europe who have this part in stock. Moreover, nobody stocks the slider kits from other compatible headphones. @conquerator2 @Fegefeuer and other European guys. Have You ever bought stuff from Beyerdynamic official and/or unofficial distributors? If yes, do You have any recommendations?


----------



## conquerator2

yethal said:


> ******* Beyers. I tried to fix a slight buzzing in my left cup, which required disassembly of the headphone. Accidentally broke the threading on the slider.
> " - That is not a big problem, You can always buy spare parts from Beyerdynamic and replace the broken one." - Yeah, I thought so too. Turns out there are no distributors in Europe who have this part in stock. Moreover, nobody stocks the slider kits from other compatible headphones. @conquerator2
> @Fegefeuer
> and other European guys. Have You ever bought stuff from Beyerdynamic official and/or unofficial distributors? If yes, do You have any recommendations?



Can't say I have, no


----------



## Yethal

I found one store that has the sliders from DT990 which may or may not fit. Will try it and see if it fits. Any feedback on interchanging parts between different Beyer models is appreciated.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> I found one store that has the sliders from DT990 which may or may not fit. Will try it and see if it fits. Any feedback on interchanging parts between different Beyer models is appreciated.



Send a request to beyer parts/support they will send new sliders for free.

They did not answer my email, but 4 or 5 days later there was an envelope from them with the sliders delivered to me. Just tell them they wore out and your cups do stay in place.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Send a request to beyer parts/support they will send new sliders for free.
> 
> They did not answer my email, but 4 or 5 days later there was an envelope from them with the sliders delivered to me. Just tell them they wore out and your cups do stay in place.


 

 Will try! Thanks for the info.


----------



## hifihp

Nice customers service


----------



## Evshrug

And community support!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Beyer ist gut!
  
 I'd always go directly to their support, even if you have to find your local support over Facebook. Beyer are pretty responsive.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> Beyer ist gut!
> 
> I'd always go directly to their support, even if you have to find your local support over Facebook. Beyer are pretty responsive.


 

 Contacted them, was told to contact my local dealer. Local dealer said they have to import the slider kit and it will take two weeks.
  
 However, a music store nearby carries the slider kits for DT990 and as @Packdemon told me, these are interchangeable so I'll just buy those instead of waiting for the original COP sliders to arrive. He also inspired me to mod my COP further down the road.


----------



## hifihp

fegefeuer said:


> Beyer ist gut!
> 
> I'd always go directly to their support, even if you have to find your local support over Facebook. Beyer are pretty responsive.


 
 Good to know


----------



## Yethal

Just ordered the DT990 sliders along with Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear. Factoring in the overseas shipping and customs tax it turned out cheaper than the BoomPro, it has 2x 3.5mm jack instead of a combo one and the microphone is detachable from the cable so overall I'm happy with it. And with a bit of soldering i could replace the Beyer stock mic with the ModMic to have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Just ordered the DT990 sliders along with Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear. Factoring in the overseas shipping and customs tax it turned out cheaper than the BoomPro, it has 2x 3.5mm jack instead of a combo one and the microphone is detachable from the cable so overall I'm happy with it. And with a bit of soldering i could replace the Beyer stock mic with the ModMic to have the best of both worlds.




You should still have Beyer send you the replacement sliders to keep as spare parts.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> You should still have Beyer send you the replacement sliders to keep as spare parts.


 

 Their only response was for me to contact the Polish distributor for Beyerdynamic. After I told them that it would take two weeks for the distributor to import the part they did not respond any further. If I were to guess, I'd say that they are still salty about Breslau.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Their only response was for me to contact the Polish distributor for Beyerdynamic. After I told them that it would take two weeks for the distributor to import the part they did not respond any further. If I were to guess, I'd say that they are still salty about Breslau.




Ah, I see.

I am contemplating if I should pick up the Philips L2 for the price it's being offered on Massdrop. I think Axel is the only one here who's owned it before. Thoughts? It will be used strictly for gaming as the 9500 was.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> I am contemplating if I should pick up the Philips L2 for the price it's being offered on Massdrop. I think Axel is the only one here who's owned it before. Thoughts? It will be used strictly for gaming as the 9500 was.




That L2 looks very sexy IMO. Sexy and mature. You should get it lol


----------



## dakanao

change is good said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> I am contemplating if I should pick up the Philips L2 for the price it's being offered on Massdrop. I think Axel is the only one here who's owned it before. Thoughts? It will be used strictly for gaming as the 9500 was.


I owned them for more than 6 months. They're excellent for gaming, they have a very tight fast rumbling subbass and tight, textured elevated mid-bass, decent soundstage, great imaging, very clear and sparkly highs without any grain/sibilance at all, and very natural, smooth neutral mids.

Soundwise when I EQ'ed the bass slightly down, they were literally perfect for me, but that's because I like a neutral fr, and without EQ the bass is a bit too emphasized for my taste. Very tight and textured, yes, but just a bit too high in quantity for me. 

However I've read some of your posts where you said that you like rumbling tight bass for that immersive expierence, so I think they'll be right up your alley soundwise. 

For comfort I found them good for 2, 3 hours on, but personally I couldn't get a proper fit easily with them because of my glasses, but as you know that's very subjective.

Soundwise for gaming (and general use for that matter) they're really sublime.


----------



## shuto77

dakanao said:


> I owned them for more than 6 months. They're excellent for gaming, they have a very tight fast rumbling subbass and tight, textured elevated mid-bass, decent soundstage, great imaging, very clear and sparkly highs without any grain/sibilance at all, and very natural, smooth neutral mids.
> 
> Soundwise when I EQ'ed the bass slightly down, they were literally perfect for me, but that's because I like a neutral fr, and without EQ the bass is a bit too emphasized for my taste. Very tight and textured, yes, but just a bit too high in quantity for me.
> 
> ...




Hey, have you compared these to the Fidelio X2? 

Also, how do they isolate? I know semi-open can go either way. 

Thanks!


----------



## dakanao

shuto77 said:


> Hey, have you compared these to the Fidelio X2?
> 
> Also, how do they isolate? I know semi-open can go either way.
> 
> Thanks!





shuto77 said:


> Hey, have you compared these to the Fidelio X2?
> 
> Also, how do they isolate? I know semi-open can go either way.
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry, never heard the X2. I can only compare them to the X1 from memory. Basically the L2's sounded better to me than the X1 in every single way, except imaging and soundstage.


----------



## Evshrug

Change,
Axel says he posted his thoughts in this thread awhile back... I don't remember when, but a search may pull up results. conquerator2 said he's had them too, maybe he'll post some impressions?


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> I am contemplating if I should pick up the Philips L2 for the price it's being offered on Massdrop. I think Axel is the only one here who's owned it before. Thoughts? It will be used strictly for gaming as the 9500 was.


 
 It was alright. A bit V-shaped, sparkly treble, very good sub-bass. Similar to the X2, just not as open sounding and a bit rougher up top. I sold it because I found the sparkly trebble inconvenient for commuting where I prefer a smoother top end.
 It's an exciting sounding headphone; I imagine it'll do nicely with gaming, but bearing its semi open nature it won't best open ones. It isolates some.
 I am not sure what kind of signature you're after. From the descriptions, it sounds a lot like the 9500 with more bass, but I haven't heard the 9500.


----------



## Change is Good

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll search for Axel's impressions when I get a chance to sit down and do so. I have a few days to think it over and will update the thread once I decide.


----------



## AxelCloris

Holy cow the new Ether Flow is enjoyable. I'll be putting these through a little gaming test tomorrow. Nothing extensive due to limited time but a quick comparison with the OG Ether at least.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> Holy cow the new Ether Flow is enjoyable. I'll be putting these through a little gaming test tomorrow. Nothing extensive due to limited time but a quick comparison with the OG Ether at least.




Have you heard the Ether Flow-C? I'm curious how it compares to the Alpha Prime. 

Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

shuto77 said:


> Have you heard the Ether Flow-C? I'm curious how it compares to the Alpha Prime.
> 
> Thanks!


 
  
 I have the Ether C Flow for another day or two but I can't compare to the Alpha Prime as that's one of the few MrSpeakers headphones I haven't owned.


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> I have the Ether C Flow for another day or two but I can't compare to the Alpha Prime as that's one of the few MrSpeakers headphones I haven't owned.




Thanks for the quick response. 

Still looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## Yethal

Aaaand the COP lives again! And I bought the mic for it. Dunno about quality difference between this and the BoomPro but it's really comfortable to use. I can unplug it when I don't use it and I can swap the cable for a shorter one whenever I need to. And the cable itself does not degrade quality so full win here.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Aaaand the COP lives again! And I bought the mic for it. Dunno about quality difference between this and the BoomPro but it's really comfortable to use. I can unplug it when I don't use it and I can swap the cable for a shorter one whenever I need to. And the cable itself does not degrade quality so full win here.




How are you enjoying those shure pads? I loved them when I had the 1840, enough to slap them on the 9500. I like them more than the alcantaras, actually. If I pick up the L2, I'll be looking to get another pair to pad roll with.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> How are you enjoying those shure pads? I loved them when I had the 1840, enough to slap them on the 9500. I like them more than the alcantaras, actually. If I pick up the L2, I'll be looking to get another pair to pad roll with.


 

 I enjoy those more than the COP stock pads. Much comfier, don't cause my ears to heat up and I sweat less. Like putting my ears to sleep on the world's comfiest pillow. The bass got less intense though.


----------



## Hoopdy

Do you know of any equalizer-like device through which one could input and output optical? I am trying to figure out a way to solve the excessive bass issues with my Astro A50s. Though it was promised quite a long time ago, they do not intend to ever release software to allow for custom presets. I figure if such a thing exists, it could be inserted between the PS4 and the base station for the A50s. 
  
 Thank you very much in advance!


----------



## Yethal

hoopdy said:


> Do you know of any equalizer-like device through which one could input and output optical? I am trying to figure out a way to solve the excessive bass issues with my Astro A50s. Though it was promised quite a long time ago, they do not intend to ever release software to allow for custom presets. I figure if such a thing exists, it could be inserted between the PS4 and the base station for the A50s.
> 
> Thank you very much in advance!


 

 Swap the leather earpads for velour ones. Should help.


----------



## Hoopdy

I have a very limited knowledge ... how might I do so and where might I purchase compatible velour pads?


----------



## Change is Good

Quote:



conquerator2 said:


> It was alright. A bit V-shaped, sparkly treble, very good sub-bass. Similar to the X2, just not as open sounding and a bit rougher up top. I sold it because I found the sparkly trebble inconvenient for commuting where I prefer a smoother top end.
> It's an exciting sounding headphone; I imagine it'll do nicely with gaming, but bearing its semi open nature it won't best open ones. It isolates some.
> I am not sure what kind of signature you're after. From the descriptions, it sounds a lot like the 9500 with more bass, but I haven't heard the 9500.


 
   
 Quote:


yethal said:


> I enjoy those more than the COP stock pads. Much comfier, don't cause my ears to heat up and I sweat less. Like putting my ears to sleep on the world's comfiest pillow. The bass got less intense though.


 
  
 Looks the the L2's are too small for Shure pads. Bummer. I may have too look into velour M50 pads, but then it will probably end up sounding to sharp in the higher frequency range. The alcantaras would have been perfect, sound wise.
  
 I wonder if the momentum on-ear pads (also alcantara) will fit on the Custom Street? If so, I may just opt for on-ears for my gaming needs. I'm basically looking for something that is boompro compatible, not big/bulky, sturdy enough to toss around, and easy to switch pads (if stock is pleather) without changing the sound too much.


----------



## Yethal

hoopdy said:


> I have a very limited knowledge ... how might I do so and where might I purchase compatible velour pads?



Astro website offers those for the latest gen of a50 headsets. If You own a previous gen a50 they'll probably fit too.


----------



## nicobombai

Quick question guys,
 I'm on the fence now, I previously owned Q701 and that was a godly headphone, too bad after 2 years i had to let it go for cash reasons at that time.
  
 Now, I'm thinking of getting a new set of headphones, but more towards budget ones, or maybe i will wait for something for end of the year.
 My choices right now:
 -Ath M40x
 -Takstar pro 80
 -Siberia 350 (I know its ****, i put it there for gaming purposes only)
  
 Or
  
 I wait till end of the year to get myself a:
 -Senn HD 598 SE
 -AKG Q701 (hate the bumps like crazy)
  
 Or you guys have any other thoughts?
  
 For mic i will be getting either Takstar's clip on or Zalman but Zalman is kinda out of stock as of right now. Modmic is still an option tho (i can ask my bud to get it for me).
 Note: i only use em for gaming and listening to some songs (genre: rock, metal, edm, rap, hiphop. i prefer a kinda flat and large soundstage like q701 if possible).


----------



## Change is Good

nicobombai said:


> Quick question guys,
> I'm on the fence now, I previously owned Q701 and that was a godly headphone, too bad after 2 years i had to let it got for cash reasons at that time.
> 
> Now, I'm thinking of getting a new set of headphones, but more towards budget ones, or maybe i will wait for something for end of the year.
> ...




The SHP9500 is as good as it gets for a budget headphone. I'm leaning towards getting another one myself if I don't find what I'm looking for.


----------



## nicobombai

change is good said:


> The SHP9500 is as good as it gets for a budget headphone. I'm leaning towards getting another one myself if I don't find what I'm looking for.


 
 Hmmmm..
 My country (Indonesia) is kinda limited on Philips line. I might have to look for this in specific retails. thanks tho.
  
 Any more inputs? Tbh im kinda leaning on M40x right now (if i have to purchase now), or i can wait and save more cash and get something better. im also confused myself on what to get cos there are too much freedom (more freedom than Murica hahaha jk) in picking :S
  
 EDIT: SHP9500 pricing here is more or less like ATH M50x. I found few selling at that price.


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Quick question guys,
> I'm on the fence now, I previously owned Q701 and that was a godly headphone, too bad after 2 years i had to let it go for cash reasons at that time.
> 
> Now, I'm thinking of getting a new set of headphones, but more towards budget ones, or maybe i will wait for something for end of the year.
> ...



Superlux 668b and Samson sr850 are budget kings.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Superlux 668b and Samson sr850 are budget kings.


 
 Thanks for the reply.
  
 I think i can stretch my budget a little bit. Those come in around 60-70 USD here. Whereas the ATH M40x is at 100 USD. The Senn HD598 is 250USD here (just for a benchmark, if im gonna order these, it would be from amazon).
  
 Come to think of it, it will boil down to ATH M40x or Senn HD558. I will get modmic too. Any thoughts?


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> I think i can stretch my budget a little bit. Those come in around 60-70 USD here. Whereas the ATH M40x is at 100 USD. The Senn HD598 is 250USD here (just for a benchmark, if im gonna order these, it would be from amazon).
> 
> Come to think of it, it will boil down to ATH M40x or Senn HD558. I will get modmic too. Any thoughts?



I had 598 paired with the modmic. Buy the boompro with a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter it's more convenient.


----------



## Wnuwk Siphon

Hey guys,
  
 I recently aquired an Astro MixAmp TR and - after what I believed to be enough deliberation (and lurking in this thread) a pair of Philips Fidelio X2's (on their way from another headfier) plus a V-Moda BoomPro for the much needed verbal abuse of my opponents. This is for gaming on the PS4 btw.
  
 However, after  some more reading I noticed that the X2's have angled drivers and now I'm kinda worried that this could pose a problem for the MixAmp's virtual surround..? Does anyone have any experience with this combo? 
  
 Thanks, Emiel


----------



## lauren312

I’m considering buying A50s or PS4. Have you guys used them? Please give me an advice to choose the better one. I love to enjoy real sounds without any attraction. Hope to learn more from you guys.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> I had 598 paired with the modmic. Buy the boompro with a 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter it's more convenient.


 
  
 Aye captain! thank you very much.
 I will do that!


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Aye captain! thank you very much.
> I will do that!


 

 You need this adapter:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-mm-Male-to-3-5-mm-Female-Stereo-Audio-Headphone-Adapter-Converter-Jack-Plug-/191785514660?hash=item2ca74eb6a4:g:dqMAAOSwuTxWCgz3
  
 Whole setup looks like this:


----------



## octiceps

nicobombai said:


> Quick question guys,
> I'm on the fence now, I previously owned Q701 and that was a godly headphone, too bad after 2 years i had to let it go for cash reasons at that time.
> 
> Now, I'm thinking of getting a new set of headphones, but more towards budget ones, or maybe i will wait for something for end of the year.
> ...




None of the above. K7XX.

Edit: AD900x for a more budget option.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Snip


 
  
 Yeah i was thinking something like, will get it by end of the month from amazon. Thanks dude 
  
  


octiceps said:


> Snip


 
  
 I was planning on getting that, but the massdrop timer went off. So no K7XX for me 
 But i think will stick to Yethal cos im just using it without an amp and might get one later on after i build another pc for myself.
 Thanks for the suggestion tho.


----------



## octiceps

nicobombai said:


> Yeah i was thinking something like, will get it by end of the month from amazon. Thanks dude
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 W/o amp, AD900x would be better choice than HD 598


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> My choices right now:
> -Ath M40x
> -Takstar pro 80
> -Siberia 350 (I know its ****, i put it there for gaming purposes only)
> ...




Well, ask 5 people, get 5 answers.

One of my buddies got an SPH9500, and I got to spend like an hour or two with it. I would agree it's a pretty solid value headphone – balanced tone (maybe a little extra treble energy, not too much IMO), comfy, no glaring flaws, discounted US price – but it doesn't quite have that "special" quality that gives me shivers down my spine. Basically great for gaming.

The Massdrop AKG K7XX is like the Q701 you remember with non-angled pads, no headband bumps, slightly less soundstage width and a bit more sub bass (which gets stronger as the pads and drivers get wear). Oh, and it's like $200 USD, which is a screamingly good deal. Personally, I tried out and ended up loving the even less expensive AKG K612... Also no headband bumps and flat pads, but it has the flattest/most balanced AKG sound signature I've heard yet. Costs only around $150-$140 USD, quite a value... but an android smartphone will not power it enough. Like, it's fine from an iPhone or iPad (had fun with my iPad Mini and the sound from the app Vain Glory), but I tried it on a Samsung and a Motorola and the bass gets sucked out and the volume needs to be turned up higher. It was ok with the Mixamp 5.8, actually dampened the background hiss a bit. Surprisingly impressive when connected to a badass amp.

I've always wanted to try a Sennheiser HD558... But always had something else to budget for. I didn't have a use for buying one when I had a Q701, then K712, or my K612. Now that I've finally saved for an HD800, I don't really need any other headphone except for maybe something portable to take to work and wear on lunch breaks. Anyway, the HD558 wasn't a path I took, but it's well-regarded.

Liked the AD700 (first full-sized headphone, selected for what people regarded as the best "out of your head" experience), never got to try the AD900(x). Another vague curiousity.

Overall philosophy: don't overextend your budget so later you have to sell off your stuff at a loss, but don't mess around too much with stuff that's only halfway towards something you really want, because you'll just be delaying the goal of that "thing you really want." If you need something now and hope to pick up a $200 headphone at the end of the year or something $500 next year, then just get a Koss KSC75 clip-on for now and something amazing later.


----------



## conquerator2

I find the K7XX more balanced overall. Especially in the lower treble. Not that it isn't great. I certainly dug it but at 50$ more the K7XX is better overall. IMO :3


----------



## nicobombai

octiceps said:


> Snip


 
  
 I dont like those type of headbands hence i skipped a few models eventho they sound better than some of the suggestions 
  


evshrug said:


> Snip


 
  
 Back then i was still in uni and something important came up so i had to get rid of something for cash.
 Now that im working, this item will be permanent.
 I do love the Q701, AKG 7xx (ended) would have been my second choice a few months ago.
 I heard good things about K612 pro but i will only use it for pc mostly (so i think i need an amp), i dont use console and i hit the gym with apple in ears nothing fancy here.
  
 Most probably i will stick somewhere in Senn 558 + V moda mic/Antlion modmic, until a good deal present themselves to me 
  


conquerator2 said:


> Snip


 
  
 But but but i cannot get them anymore from massdrop T.T
 Wanted to but kinda too late, oh well, imma go for 558 for the meantime until i get a good deal. 
  
  
 Note: Thanks for all the suggestions guys, appreciate it a lot!


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> I dont like those type of headbands hence i skipped a few models eventho they sound better than some of the suggestions
> 
> 
> Back then i was still in uni and something important came up so i had to get rid of something for cash.
> ...


 

 Protip #1: Don't cut the entire post You're quoting, it makes it more difficult for other people to reply.
  
 Protip #2 Search the classifieds section on Head-Fi and/or used section on eBay. If budget is a constrain it's always better in the long run to buy great used gear instead of brand new mediocre gear.
  
 EDIT: Look what I found in eBay used section. Q701 for 80$ (no, this is not a cryptoad)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AKG-Q-701-Headphones-White-Lime-Free-shipping-Great-condition-/272338100732?hash=item3f689da1fc:g:3nEAAOSw9NdXq7Jo


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> Protip #1: Don't cut the entire post You're quoting, it makes it more difficult for other people to reply.




This. Plus it's bad etiquette and can be viewed as disrespectful (people arguing on forums like to replace entire contents of quoted posts with _*meaningless text*_ or some other smart aleck quip).


----------



## Evshrug

octiceps said:


> This. Plus it's bad etiquette and can be viewed as disrespectful (people arguing on forums like to replace entire contents of quoted posts with _*meaningless text*_ or some other smart aleck quip).




I know this wasn't directed at me, and thankfully I think I haven't offended anyone, but I often only quote the section I'm responding to. Basically, because I know I will be long-winded in my reply 
But I like to include the text I'm replying to so that there is some context.


----------



## shuto77

I just traded for an AKG Q701 (black and green in excellent condition), but I don't think it will be to my liking. 

PM me if you're interested in it and maybe we can work out a deal. I'm looking for cash or good portable amps. I'll definitely trade for a Sound Blaster E5, if available. 

Everyone knows they're great for competitive gaming. 

Thanks!


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> I just traded for an AKG Q701 (black and green in excellent condition), but I don't think it will be to my liking.
> 
> PM me if you're interested in it and maybe we can work out a deal. I'm looking for cash or good portable amps. I'll definitely trade for a Sound Blaster E5, if available.
> 
> ...




The bumps can be easily taken care of with a razor blade and a 2 dollar piece of adhesive backed felt from hobby lobby. I did a pair a while back and it came out real nice. I just removed the 3 in the center.


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> The bumps can be easily taken care of with a razor blade and a 2 dollar piece of adhesive backed felt from hobby lobby. I did a pair a while back and it came out real nice. I just removed the 3 in the center.




I haven't received them yet, and just assumed they'd be as comfortable as the K7XX. 

I need to find out if the bass port mod is reversible, if I'm going to keep these.


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> I haven't received them yet, and just assumed they'd be as comfortable as the K7XX.
> 
> I need to find out if the bass port mod is reversible, if I'm going to keep these.




Should be I believe it's just a "sticker"?


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, the AKG bass mod is reversible if you still have the resonance-dampening sticker. If you don't, you could still try affixing different materials in the same spot to affect the sound.

As far as the headband goes, I just bought a (pair of) baby seatbelt wrap(s) and put it on the headband with the fuzzy side out. Really helped in comfort.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Protip #1: Don't cut the entire post You're quoting, it makes it more difficult for other people to reply.
> 
> Protip #2 Search the classifieds section on Head-Fi and/or used section on eBay. If budget is a constrain it's always better in the long run to buy great used gear instead of brand new mediocre gear.
> 
> ...


 
  
  


octiceps said:


> This. Plus it's bad etiquette and can be viewed as disrespectful (people arguing on forums like to replace entire contents of quoted posts with _*meaningless text*_ or some other smart aleck quip).


 
  
 Oh ok my bad, i'm not used to alot of stuff infront of my face lol.
 I will rectify the problem. Sorry guys.
 Yeah i will have a look there, thanks again 
  


shuto77 said:


> I just traded for an AKG Q701 (black and green in excellent condition), but I don't think it will be to my liking.
> 
> PM me if you're interested in it and maybe we can work out a deal. I'm looking for cash or good portable amps. I'll definitely trade for a Sound Blaster E5, if available.
> 
> ...


  
 My shipping cost and import taxes are crazy (ex: q701 $200 will come to $300-400 depending on how much i can "motivate" [IUKWIM] the officials), thats why im waiting for a buddy to come back here around next month to get me those headphones xD


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Angled drivers are made angled so the drivers could be parallel to your ear openings. It doesn't negatively impact virtual surround DSPs.


----------



## Yethal

Question to the BoomPro owners. How thick is the insulation around the headphone jack? A friend of mine has headphones with recessed cable input and we're trying to see if it fits.


----------



## stinkytofus

So whats best for fps ? Beyer dt990 600 ohm or akg k702? (New k702 does not have the bumps now)


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Question to the BoomPro owners. How thick is the insulation around the headphone jack? A friend of mine has headphones with recessed cable input and we're trying to see if it fits.


 
  
 Moderately thick. I had to shave down the plastic to get it to fit on the HP200's recessed jack.


----------



## headphonesonly

stinkytofus said:


> So whats best for fps ? Beyer dt990 600 ohm or akg k702? (New k702 does not have the bumps now)


akg k702 are best for competitive fps gaming, similar to the q701. I personally use the dt990 because of the better bass response.


----------



## o0Julia0o

i read akg701 are best for competitive gaming.


----------



## nicobombai

o0julia0o said:


> i read akg701 are best for competitive gaming.


 
  
 AKG q701 have the similar sound (from what i heard) and i previously owned them.
 All i can say they were absolutely awesome for gaming, they can pick apart details with ease which enhanced my bf4 experience. Regretted my decision from selling them


----------



## shuto77

Selling my AKG Q701s in the Classifieds. These are the black ones and not the awful-looking lime green ones. If you like the lime green ones... too bad, lol. 

Shoot me an offer if you're interested.


----------



## nicobombai

shuto77 said:


> Selling my AKG Q701s in the Classifieds. These are the black ones and not the awful-looking lime green ones. If you like the lime green ones... too bad, lol.
> 
> Shoot me an offer if you're interested.


 
  
 PM sent. Hopefully all goes well by end of this month


----------



## stinkytofus

headphonesonly said:


> akg k702 are best for competitive fps gaming, similar to the q701. I personally use the dt990 because of the better bass response.


 
 so dt990 > akg k702 for fps competitve gaming?


----------



## headphonesonly

stinkytofus said:


> so dt990 > akg k702 for fps competitve gaming?


K702>dt990. K702 is a serious sounding headphone and has a bigger soundstage and the Dt990 is a fun sounding headphone. You can still get away with the dt990 for competitive gaming so just pick the cheapest option.


----------



## Change is Good

Wow, rush is only 24 players on BF1 when it's always been 32. Damn shame. Watch them split the maps into different game modes, a'la Battlefront. I'm just speculating, but dropping the player count in Rush is a red flag. Not to mention the lack of weapon variety, but then again it is WW1.

Seeing my favorite shooter get watered down is infuriating. Happened with CoD. Nowadays people are better off buying AAA social games a year after release. Seems like 90% of them are releasing with barebones content, nowadays, relying solely on the social aspect of the game. Sad. Long gone are the days when shooters had countless weapons with 15+ maps for all game modes and fighters had 30+ character rosters with 15+ stages.

I know, prices of games have stayed the same so it evens out once you factor in today's economy and technology. I'm just old school, so forgive my rant.

Edit: as much flak as COD gets, I give the franchise credit for still releasing what feels like a full game on release. Pretty amazing considering Activision is the one that set this recent (lack of day one content) trend with Destiny.


----------



## shuto77

What mid-fi headphones are people using for gaming? And has anyone tried out the PS4 VR yet? I'm curious if certain headphones will be too bulky to wear with the headset.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> What mid-fi headphones are people using for gaming? And has anyone tried out the PS4 VR yet? I'm curious if certain headphones will be too bulky to wear with the headset.




I've been using the 400i more since selling my 9500. I regret doing so because of that very reason. The Philips was big, but not Hifiman big. I should have just kept it around. Currently looking for something comfortable and throwaround-able for gaming, but not full size. The L2 would have been perfect if not for the pleather pads.


----------



## nicobombai

Sennheiser just announced a new line GSP 300 headset.
 The frequencies are not far from G4me One.
  
 $99 and available around September.
 Any thoughts?
  
 Source: http://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-gsp-300
  
 Sound wise i know what i will get with a "headset" lol


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> What mid-fi headphones are people using for gaming? And has anyone tried out the PS4 VR yet? I'm curious if certain headphones will be too bulky to wear with the headset.



I have one at work. I'll try it out tomorrow and report back.


nicobombai said:


> Sennheiser just announced a new line GSP 300 headset.
> The frequencies are not far from G4me One.
> 
> $99 and available around September.
> ...



Looks hideous.


----------



## kayan

This is relevant, for PC gamers.

I have to remove my soundcard from my motherboard for Wi-Fi internet. Its a soundblaster Zx. I'm looking for an external solution that will be similar for positioning in FPS games (not competitive), but also fantastic for music.

I like the way the x7 looks, but have heard such mixed things about it on multiple forums, as well as Amazon and NewEgg reviews. What other choices are there that are similar? Internal cards of any type are out.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Yethal

kayan said:


> This is relevant, for PC gamers.
> 
> I have to remove my soundcard from my motherboard for Wi-Fi internet. Its a soundblaster Zx. I'm looking for an external solution that will be similar for positioning in FPS games (not competitive), but also fantastic for music.
> 
> ...



Soundblaster Omni.


----------



## lenroot77

Finally got the X7 back in my life!



I'm very happy with this setup... The circle is complete!
LC / X7 / Bimby


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I have one at work. I'll try it out tomorrow and report back.




Interesting to see how it fits while using something like the 1840. The Shures are slightly on the larger side but super lightweight.


----------



## kellte2

lenroot77 said:


> Finally got the X7 back in my life!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How does line/optical out perform with SBX and a different amp?


----------



## lenroot77

kellte2 said:


> How does line/optical out perform with SBX and a different amp?




So far so good! I'm running an optical out to the Bimby then dumping the sound into the LC. This seems to be working fine.

Or maybe it's just better to use the X7 Dac and line out it to the Amp directly???
 Ev? Feggy? Either of you have an opinion?


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> Finally got the X7 back in my life!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Glad it's working out. 

I'll probably buy another one when I move. 

How does it sound with the LC?


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Wow, rush is only 24 players on BF1 when it's always been 32. Damn shame. Watch them split the maps into different game modes, a'la Battlefront. I'm just speculating, but dropping the player count in Rush is a red flag. Not to mention the lack of weapon variety, but then again it is WW1.
> 
> Seeing my favorite shooter get watered down is infuriating. Happened with CoD. Nowadays people are better off buying AAA social games a year after release. Seems like 90% of them are releasing with barebones content, nowadays, relying solely on the social aspect of the game. Sad. Long gone are the days when shooters had countless weapons with 15+ maps for all game modes and fighters had 30+ character rosters with 15+ stages.
> 
> ...




Thank all the noobs that complained about Rush being a cluster**** fest....

Although Im pretty sure they will then add the option to being it back up to 32 players in Rush.


----------



## nicobombai

Oh yeah i forgot.
  
 They also added 2 dac/amp (i believe) for the new "gaming" lineup for Sennheiser.
  
 Have a look: 
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1000
  
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1200-pro
  
 Wonder how it will affect the user, will it be like the mixamp or something else. hm...


----------



## headphonesonly

nicobombai said:


> Oh yeah i forgot.
> 
> They also added 2 dac/amp (i believe) for the new "gaming" lineup for Sennheiser.
> 
> ...


There's no optical input for us console peasants


----------



## Unkas

Hello,
  
 finally i decided to get serious with my sound set, i got a desktop mic and almost decided to get the AKG K701 (dunno if there is any important different between 701 and 702 more than stetic and removable wire) but i'm so confuse about dac's and amp's and i don't get at a point to know what is what i need.
 Now i have a Xonar DG and i think maybe what i need is only an amp
  
 could you tell me which amp or dac or amp+dac do i need for a gaming set with the AKG701?


----------



## rudyae86

nicobombai said:


> Oh yeah i forgot.
> 
> They also added 2 dac/amp (i believe) for the new "gaming" lineup for Sennheiser.
> 
> ...


 
 Hmmmm now thats quite a surprise. I mean, I read something about this a while back but didnt think they would actually make a device like this. I was expecting like a usb dongle that usually comes with the PC363D or the revised PC373D headsets.....
  
 Makes me want to get one to test it out.....


----------



## Fegefeuer

lenroot77 said:


> So far so good! I'm running an optical out to the Bimby then dumping the sound into the LC. This seems to be working fine.
> 
> Or maybe it's just better to use the X7 Dac and line out it to the Amp directly???
> Ev? Feggy? Either of you have an opinion?


 
  
 I'd always use the superior chain to do the D/A conversion and amping and since the Bimby is somewhat a "always on" device anyway (to sound best) there is no point to switching to the X7's Line Out at all. 
  
 Plus the X7 LO is inferior to any good DAC I've used. Something like the V800, Anedio D2 is absolutely dead silent. 
  


rudyae86 said:


> Hmmmm now thats quite a surprise. I mean, I read something about this a while back but didnt think they would actually make a device like this. I was expecting like a usb dongle that usually comes with the PC363D or the revised PC373D headsets.....
> 
> Makes me want to get one to test it out.....


 
  
 Priced 229€ and 249€. I expect good things SQ-wise. Let's see about the virtualization.


----------



## nicobombai

rudyae86 said:


> Hmmmm now thats quite a surprise. I mean, I read something about this a while back but didnt think they would actually make a device like this. I was expecting like a usb dongle that usually comes with the PC363D or the revised PC373D headsets.....
> 
> Makes me want to get one to test it out.....


 
  
 Haven't got the chance to try the "gaming" line of sennheiser. Looks interesting tho.
  
 Let me know how it turns out once you get hands on it


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've asked Sennheiser for a loaner. I don't think it'll work out but if it does I'll record some videos.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

nicobombai said:


> Oh yeah i forgot.
> 
> They also added 2 dac/amp (i believe) for the new "gaming" lineup for Sennheiser.
> 
> ...


 

 Could have been intruiging but the lack of console support is a deal breaker. There seems to have been very little talk about the Turtle Beach TAC. Someone said they had it and would report back dozens of pages back but they never did. I'm still curious to read more opinions about it, though since I discovered that the Mixamp's stream port can be used as a line out, urgency to buy a new virtual surround processor has subsided.
  
 My top priority currently is to buy an amp (most likely a Magni 2 Uber) to try it out with the Mixamp. Allegedly some people have trouble with ground loops, so I'll have to be mindful of what's plugged in where. I initially thought that if I ran into trouble I could just use a ground loop isolator but apparently they can degrade the signal quality (particularly the bass) so I'd rather avoid using one. If all goes well with the Mixamp Magni combo, next purchase will likely be HD600s.
  
 Of course I could save myself some hassle and go for Fidelio X2s and have the added bonus of Boompro compatibility, but I've had my heart set on the HD600s for a long time now and want to eventually experiment with tube amps, so I think the HD600s will be a better long term plan.


----------



## nicobombai

headphonesonly said:


> There's no optical input for us console peasants


 
  
 Quote:


napalmhardcore said:


> Could have been intruiging but the lack of console support is a deal breaker. There seems to have been very little talk about the Turtle Beach TAC. Someone said they had it and would report back dozens of pages back but they never did. I'm still curious to read more opinions about it, though since I discovered that the Mixamp's stream port can be used as a line out, urgency to buy a new virtual surround processor has subsided.
> 
> My top priority currently is to buy an amp (most likely a Magni 2 Uber) to try it out with the Mixamp. Allegedly some people have trouble with ground loops, so I'll have to be mindful of what's plugged in where. I initially thought that if I ran into trouble I could just use a ground loop isolator but apparently they can degrade the signal quality (particularly the bass) so I'd rather avoid using one. If all goes well with the Mixamp Magni combo, next purchase will likely be HD600s.
> 
> Of course I could save myself some hassle and go for Fidelio X2s and have the added bonus of Boompro compatibility, but I've had my heart set on the HD600s for a long time now and want to eventually experiment with tube amps, so I think the HD600s will be a better long term plan.


 
  
 I think they're focusing on PC gamers since most of their gaming lineup are used by pro teams especially in Dota2, CSGO, LOL (if i can recall) etc.
 They want to enter that market and compete with Steelseries in the Esports department imo.


----------



## Clean6eR

napalmhardcore said:


> There seems to have been very little talk about the Turtle Beach TAC. Someone said they had it and would report back dozens of pages back but they never did. I'm still curious to read more opinions about it, though since I discovered that the Mixamp's stream port can be used as a line out, urgency to buy a new virtual surround processor has subsided.
> 
> My top priority currently is to buy an amp (most likely a Magni 2 Uber) to try it out with the Mixamp.


 
 Hi,
  
*Mixers:*

 Mixamp
 Mixamp TR
 X7
 Recon 3d
 Tritton ax720 thingy
 Turtle beach dss2
 XP Seven mixer thingy
 TAC
 *Amps:*

 hdvd800
 Lovelycube
 Magni
 *Headphones:*
errr too many to list so this is the more relevant ones;
pretty much all the high end gaming headsets.

 hd800
 a900x ltd
 ath adg1
 t70
 mmx300
 dt990 600ohm
 COP
  
*Feedback/comparison on the TAC:*
  
*Setup*
  
_TAC_
  
PS4 and PC hooked up using a usb switch box. press the switch box to switch chat between the 2 and flick the switch on the back of the unit makes things simple. It's two USB sound cards to windows, one chat one is a 8 channel sound card at 48khz. set them as default and its hard to go wrong, set any games you can to 7.1 and that’s the set up sorted (no fancy drivers required)
  
_Mixamp TR_
  
Unlike the older ones this one runs like the TAC plug in only USB and 2 sound cards pop up and away you go. no need for drivers but get the control center! what i prefer on the ps4 pc switch is i use my switch box then i just keep my finger on the Mixamp power to switch to pc mode which is a little cleaner.
  
_X7_
  
only one sound card, mixing chat and game is not as easy as physical knobs to do it, its very software driven, a phone app makes this kinda nice. this beats the other two with PS4/PC switching as I bought a blue tooth chat dongle thingy from them for the ps4 and it means i need no USB switch box at all, the software lets me set the volume and away i go! must say the biggest down point is the chat game mixing not beign as natural as the other 2 but that’s not such a massive impact for me.
  
*Use as gaming source - **Surround** experience*
  
surround of the three on offer here (DTS:X, Dolby HP, creative one?) the DTS:X is a compromise between the other two. i find Dolby HP to be quite echo'y? and processed sounding. but it is rather distinct for locating sound sources in games. this i find the whole point. the creative one is a lot more natural sounding, but equally i find myself wondering if i actually heard that behind me or not. when I slap on my hd800's and switch between the 3 i feel the creative is in another league when it comes to convincing and realistic sound, Dolby is an echo mp3 style experience and the DTS:X falls between. having said this you’d think that creative is the best, I'm not sure. something is just better with directional awareness on the DTS:X. when running around in seige i hear people and the floor their on, it like cheating. on the creative it was more dispereced and harder to pinpoint but seemed more like what it would in the real world, the Dolby was screaming "they are behind you and to the left" but i didn’t figure out the fact they were on the floor above me! to be honest all three are good. i don’t have a favourite (the Recon 3D USB card has VERY similar surround experience as the X7 but the amp is colder (I put Muses01 and AD627 in the X7 and this makes it sound, i feel a little TOO boom and slapping you in the face, default op amps kept it a cooler cleaner sounding source)
  
_TAC_
  
Put simply, the best. the XP seven thing is the only comparable solution. if you need voice monitoring this is the one. all the features you can see on pictures and they are useful, if you mic introduces an airy sound then a adjustable filter can cut that out keeping the game and chat audio clean. the Mixamp TR has built in filters which work well but I’ll explain in its section why it doesn't matter. 
  
_Mixamp TR_
  
Easiest to use, clearly set-up for tournaments, i find the voice monitoring on this is there, and the software lets you adjust it (AT LAST Astro!) but even on max its still at least half as loud as the TAC and makes it not loud enough for how i want to hear my voice. the clever thing is that by keeping this quite next to no mic hiss is picked up keeping the amp sounding clean and clear, the TAC's variable gate solves that issue.
  
_X7_
  
oh man, what a let down! the mic monitor on this is HORRIBLE, if you turn all of the processing of your voice off a hiss will come through that can be removed perfectly by using one of the features to a better degree than the other solutions. in fact the mic recording on this destroys the others. but when you put clear voice or what ever on it to make it sound AMAZING it introduces a lag on the voice monitoring, this renders it TOTALLY useless. so turn off the processing? sure, but then you always have the hissing the WHOLE time. also it still has a VERY slight lag like this too making it shaky to use. if you don’t use mic monitor at all then the X7 destroys the others and is easily is the best, if you use mic monitor like i do then its almost taken it out of the running (mine is on the shelf because of this)
  
_*Use as Music source - sound quality*_
  
_Mixamp __TR_
  
Mixamp is OK, its silent, the others had a noise when using them with like sensitive headsets (Kingston cloud revolver) but the TR is silent! i was SO happy when i bought it and found this, if using other headsets leaves the mic on you can mute it in the software for when you are watching films etc. to keep the amp silent, noise comes in as the volume rises, you will deafen yourself before the noise floor can be heard. (VERY good noise floor)
  
_TAC_
  
 present noise floor even when using the elite pro headset with it (they were made for each other) BTW that headset is pretty awesome for a gaming one, the surround is the best i have heard with them, the ear pads are ridiculously good, the have Spandex and protein leather mixed to cover them with some endothermic gel mixed with memory foam to stuff them. It actually cools your ears when you put them on, this doesn’t last more than about 10 minutes then they are the same as any other but the comfort and that first 10 minutes is AMAZING, has to be the future of ear pads. 
Sorry, back to the TAC, its noisy, the cloud revolvers can hear it easily and its like you have your mic monitor on with background noise during quite game and song moments, i found if i use less sensitive phones i cant hear it (t70,hd800,ath-adg1) this solves my only issue with the TAC, but i love the Pro headset so much I'm sad i cant use it with this amp without that hiss.
  
_X7_
  
silent, this is a capable DAC and amp, leagues above the other 2, switching op amps to flavour the sound means this could be your audio hub if on a budget quite nicely, hell I hook up my stax to the speaker outs on it too!
  
*Final impression*
  
The X7 is a clear class above on sound quality and music playback, it has easier connection features as an audio hub but lacks for me essential elements of a gaming device. the Mixamp TR is an improvement to the older Mixamps, its clean and clear and very functional, the mic monitor and surround effects i feel have been beaten though but i can easily see many preferring this device for those two element. The TAC i feel does everything i want except its noise floor SUCKS the xp seven one had the same issue and i was praying they would have fixed it for this device
  
*To try*
  
Just plugged headphones into the line out of the TAC following what you said and it works like a pre amp, the volume goes up and down with the volume knob. it has a hiss but I'm wondering if going to an amp will eliminate this hiss. I'm doing a kitchen up at the minute and my amps are all over the place but ill try hooking my Magni up to the line out to see if it can be silenced, if so this is the best gaming set-up I can put together for usability and sound in my situation. (yes i could use Razer surround program into the hdvd800 but then no mic monitor (could get mixer too) and no ps4 surround etc etc…)
  
  
Sorry for many mistakes and poor structure but hope this helps in some way


----------



## Napalmhardcore

nicobombai said:


> I think they're focusing on PC gamers since most of their gaming lineup are used by pro teams especially in Dota2, CSGO, LOL (if i can recall) etc.
> They want to enter that market and compete with Steelseries in the Esports department imo.


 
   
It's a shame really because PC already has plenty of soundcards with virtual surround capability. For stand-alone (not sold exclusively with a headset) there are three current devices I can think of for consoles: Turtle Beach Pro TAC, Mixamp TR and the Sound Blaster X7. Considering its price, the mixed reviews and features I don't really require, I've pretty much written off the X7 and I think the price alone will make a lot of people rule it out. For most people I'd imagine that it is between the TAC and the Mixamp.

  
 Personally I've not had particularly positive experiences with Astro. Their customer support mislead me and were just generally a pain to deal with, there was a well known issue with mic quality on PS4 with the Gen 2 Mixamp which they weren't upfront about (their forums were filled with complaints about it, yet every time a person asked a question about it they acted like it was the first time they had ever heard about it, including when I tested this by mentioning it when I sent their support an email about the Mixamp TR's features) and I personally think the TAC has a more attractive feature set (like outgoing mic boost which the PS3 badly needs, though considering it is last gen it's probably a bit late to be a significant selling point).
  
 If I were buying a new virtual surround device it would most likely be the TAC (though I'd like to read more user opinions). It would be nice if there was more choice though. I would love to see another player in the game and would love to see Sennheiser's take on such a device.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, console users can get the A16 now. No more hoping, waiting for a device with "decent" SQ or anything. Now you get the whole package. HDMI, optical, DTS:X, Atmos etc, DAC, AMp etc.....even demonstrated with a HD800. Isn't that (on paper) the best device we could ever wish for? 
  
 The "problem" with Sennheiser, Astro and Co. is that their marketing caters to "pro gamers" (as beacons) and their millions of followers and not to us. It's just a much bigger market and while for pro gamers map knowledge and voice communication is way more important before crystal clear audio and positioning, it doesn't matter for these companies as they advertise their "superior audio" like whey anyway. No pro gamer buys their stuff (they are all sponsored), it's the usual multiplayer gamer who's going to buy these things because he believes it enhances his skill. And on the PC there are millions of them. They don't care about output impedance, amp power, sound quality etc. They accept that tacky looking box. We do as well (looking at X7, G5) but we are desparate in another way. 
  
 We should stop believing they misinterpret the market. They just don't cater to us. We are too small and our demands are higher. At least we got Smyth. Now where's my damn money.


----------



## Clean6eR

fegefeuer said:


> well, console users can get the A16 now. No more hoping, waiting for a device with "decent" SQ or anything. Now you get the whole package. HDMI, optical, DTS:X, Atmos etc, DAC, AMp etc.....even demonstrated with a HD800. Isn't that (on paper) the best device we could ever wish for?




What's the a16? Can you link to it? Does it do voice monitoring?


----------



## Fegefeuer

clean6er said:


> What's the a16? Can you link to it? Does it do voice monitoring?


 
  
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1959366850/realiser-a16-real-3d-audio-headphone-processor
  
 no voice afaik but ALL the goodies you could expect for headphone gaming and movie watching. Featurewise it's actually close to perfection.


----------



## Clean6eR

napalmhardcore said:


> My top priority currently is to buy an amp (most likely a Magni 2 Uber) to try it out with the Mixamp.


 
 hi,
  
 Just hooked the Magni 1 up to the TAC via the line out. i have the turtle beach pro headset on it. (i could hear a hiss using the TAC directly with this headset)
  
 the hiss has gone!!!!
  
 its still surround sound. when i get spare time ill try the mic monitor to see if any lag is added but doesn't seem to yet.
  
 i maxed the volume on the TAC then maxed it on the magni and i can hear a ground issue type sound on high volume. this is not prefection but i would blow my ears out if i used it at this volume. this means i can now retry ALL of my headphones and headsets using this setup without the hiss sound on any of them!
  
*add*:
  
 just moved the interconnect cable, and the grounding humm has gone at high volume. there is a VERY slight hiss at 50% volume and a hiss like the headphone out at 100% volume. my ears are happy volume wise at about 10% volume, this is a real improvement!
  
*edit:*
  
 just got a set of a900x ltd in the post. i thought they sounded good on the magni, but something just sounded a little souless, tried them on the TAC headphone out port. better, the vocals have more clarity, the bass is a little more present which i don't care for but the imaging and space seems to flesh out and widen. i cannot hear the TAC hiss out of the headphone port with the a900x ltd (same with t70, hd800, a40,polk 4shot, and ath-adg1) i feel its better without the magni amp this way.


----------



## Clean6eR

Nice!
  
 i really am after voice monitoring too.
  
 supose its like the beyer headzone? but these are pretty pricey things and don't tick all my boxes for gaming.
  
 i fell in love with the hd800 and then i heard it on the hdvd800 and found it to be even better so i bought them for listening to music but when i game with them it just doesn't feel right, i can hear how crappy the virtualiaztion is, kind of like going from flac to mp3 type feeling, plus i have all the mic issues (no monitor which i really like).
  
 the TAC with a magni amping its line out with a load of 4 pole to 3 pole converters is the closest so far that lets me use closed cans well.(prefer these so i don't annoy everyone in the house too much.) i need to use it like this in actually multiplayer games first before i can say it feels right or not.
  
 thanks for linking to that thing, bet if i tried it i probably want to buy it! my wallet says not but my curiosity...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

clean6er said:


> hi,
> 
> Just hooked the Magni 1 up to the TAC via the line out. i have the turtle beach pro headset on it. (i could hear a hiss using the TAC directly with this headset)
> 
> ...


 

 Good info. Provided I don't run into ground loop issues, this gives me hope that using the stream port on the Mixamp to an external amp may be a viable way to go when it comes to hard to drive headphones. It will also give me the flexibility to try out other amps in future. Not that I think I'd gain any advantage through doing so (I rarely play online anyway, so being competitive isn't particularly important to me) but I'd like to try gaming with a tube amp at some point just to hear what it's like.


----------



## Clean6eR

HI,
  
 when i find my mixamp TR ill try the line out.
  
 i have just worked out the TAC does odd things on the line out, the voice monitor is fixed and i end up needing to find that level using the magni's volume then i use the main volume on the TAC to mind a comfortable game volume and mix the chat using the mixer on the TAC.
  
 odd. plus the chat audio clips more on the line out.
  
 all around its better through the headphone port than the line out if the headphones used dont get the hiss from that port.
  
 can you slap headphones in the line out of yours and see if the volume controls the line out? (pre amp style function)


----------



## pervysage

Saw some people were asking about the TAC. Unfortunately, my experience was not a good one. I had mine for 2 days before shipping it back to Amazon for a full refund. $200 for that thing is absolute BS. 

It has great build quality for a TB product but that is where the positives end for me. All the extra features are nice but they are no good when the actual quality of the game sound is so bad. Using any of the TB "surround" effects makes the sound completely unnatural and distorted. I couldn't even compare the surround abilities to the Dolby Headphone of Astro Mixamps because of how bad it sounded. Treble is super high pitched and fatiguing and nothing sounds like it should. It turns realistic sounding guns into toys. It makes expensive headphones like the HD800 and TH900 sound like dollar store toys. 

But don't take my word for it, luckily you don't have to go out and buy this thing in order to see what I'm talking about. This YouTube video is a perfect representation of what you hear with the TAC compared to the Mixamp. I have tried both and can confirm the YouTube video is accurate. Just wear your headphones while watching the video. 

https://youtu.be/2tmZeZekjLM

The best sound coming from the TAC was when I turned the surround function off. That is ridiculous. The whole point of getting the device is for the surround.


----------



## Clean6eR

hi,
  
 that's an awesome video!
  
 i agree the hd800 for me makes the Mixamp and the TAC sound like cheap trash when i compare it to my hdvd800 or even the X7.
  
 i just don't feel immersed in a game with them, i think its due to them being open (hearing the door bell or a phone when I'm playing shatters the immersion for me) and so capable of picking up on how harsh the amps sound (or under powered?).
  
 i have found the a900x ltd and mmx300 to be better suited to the job.
  
 even on that video when listening for the robots shooting around the screen i found the TAC to be clearer to locate where they are than the mixamp, but i never noticed how bad the guns sound, its like the center channel is echoed like crazy! (then again was shot in a tunnel!) but yea the guns sound nicer on the Astro.
  
 i have to dig mine out and a/b of these again!
  
 i wonder if that was recorded from the line outs on them because I'm finding the line out sounds different to the headset out port. (going into the magni of course which may be playing a big part of it)


----------



## Napalmhardcore

pervysage said:


> Saw some people were asking about the TAC. Unfortunately, my experience was not a good one. I had mine for 2 days before shipping it back to Amazon for a full refund. $200 for that thing is absolute BS.
> 
> It has great build quality for a TB product but that is where the positives end for me. All the extra features are nice but they are no good when the actual quality of the game sound is so bad. Using any of the TB "surround" effects makes the sound completely unnatural and distorted. I couldn't even compare the surround abilities to the Dolby Headphone of Astro Mixamps because of how bad it sounded. Treble is super high pitched and fatiguing and nothing sounds like it should. It turns realistic sounding guns into toys. It makes expensive headphones like the HD800 and TH900 sound like dollar store toys.
> 
> ...


 
 Had a listen (though admittedly I used speakers because I've just woken up and the 8 ft to my computer just seems too far away at the moment). The difference is huge. I'm obviously not getting the full effect, but even through speakers the Mixamp sounds nicer to me personally. Emphasises that we could do with more in the way of choice.


----------



## Yethal

pervysage said:


> Saw some people were asking about the TAC. Unfortunately, my experience was not a good one. I had mine for 2 days before shipping it back to Amazon for a full refund. $200 for that thing is absolute BS.
> 
> It has great build quality for a TB product but that is where the positives end for me. All the extra features are nice but they are no good when the actual quality of the game sound is so bad. Using any of the TB "surround" effects makes the sound completely unnatural and distorted. I couldn't even compare the surround abilities to the Dolby Headphone of Astro Mixamps because of how bad it sounded. Treble is super high pitched and fatiguing and nothing sounds like it should. It turns realistic sounding guns into toys. It makes expensive headphones like the HD800 and TH900 sound like dollar store toys.
> 
> ...


 

 Does the difference in sound persist when the amp is plugged in the headphone out? Just wondering if there is a difference in processing/EQ applied.


----------



## pervysage

yethal said:


> Does the difference in sound persist when the amp is plugged in the headphone out? Just wondering if there is a difference in processing/EQ applied.




Yes, still sounds bad. Before ordering the TAC from Amazon I watched that YouTube video and thought to myself there has to be something wrong with how the video was recorded. Maybe the video recording used the stream out port which sounded bad or something along those lines. But no I can assure you the sound through the headphone out sounds pretty much the same. Bloated, distorted and very unnatural. Completely ruins the enjoyment of any game being played. 

When the TAC first came out I found it mind boggling how many 5 star reviews it was getting. These were ALL Amazon Vine "free product reviews". I just looked at the Amazon reviews right now and glad to see that REAL users of the TAC have pitched in with REAL opinions on the product.


----------



## Clean6eR

hi,
  
 not sure if you meant me, as *pervysage* took his back to the store?
  
 that was a clever thing to try, so i hooked a sensitive set of headphones up to the magni (MF100) i can hear a hiss when the voice monitor is set to a decent level, i then bring the game volume to the same ammount by ear using the master volume on the TAC so my voice (which is maxed on the line out) is level with the game. i then mute the mic. i play a round of CS:S. there is still a hiss! but it seemed to have surround working and no clipping.
  
 then i unplug the interconnect from the line out on the TAC and right in the HP out of it on the front, i have to turn mic monitor on and re adjust the magni volume to be the same level as before with the monitor volume on the TAC at max, then i bring the game to the same level using the TAC master volume as i did before, it was slightly different. mute mic and play a round again. seems the same!
  
 it may be that before when i switched between the magni and the TAC hp out i was hearing the difference of the two amps, the TAC one probably has higher impedance and is fleshing out the bass or making it sound different?
  
 im not sure but the processing is the same from HP and line out on the TAC. what the controls do vary if you are using the line out to what you have out of the HP out though.


----------



## Clean6eR

*pervysage* 
  
 what mixamp do you have?
  
 my TR one sounds a little more smooth than the TAC (well the TAC sound like that video, quite metallic) but i remember it sounding more brittle that the mixamp in the video. (i really must fish it out tomorrow)
  
 the most organic surround i can get is from the X7 but their is something about that brittle echo laiden surround on the TAC that i find informative, i can hear the location of the sound like its being highlighted as apposed to me overlooking the location with the mixamp in that video.
  
 have you tried the soundblaster surround thingy? what did you think of that? the recon 3d is a cheap console happy device with it on board.


----------



## pervysage

clean6er said:


> *pervysage*
> 
> what mixamp do you have?
> 
> ...




I have the 2013 Mixamp Pro. While the sound quality could definitely be better, it is very acceptable. Has a tiny amount of hiss once you hit a certain volume but I don't listen that high so the hiss is not audible. 

Haven't heard the X7 or any of the Soundblaster devices. From what I hear the X7 is the go to device for those looking for the best SQ. Surround wise I can't compare it to the Dolby Headphone of Astro Mixamps. I have read that rear positional cues sound different. 

Myself, I have decided to put an end to my pursuit of the best gaming surround audio and will be investing in the Realiser A16. I say investment because it is definitely a lot of money but in my eyes it will be worth it with all the other features it has. It is end game territory for surround sound needs. High end headphones should have a high end source, no? I have always felt odd about hooking up a cheap Mixamp to a $1000+ headphone.


----------



## rudyae86

pervysage said:


> Saw some people were asking about the TAC. Unfortunately, my experience was not a good one. I had mine for 2 days before shipping it back to Amazon for a full refund. $200 for that thing is absolute BS.
> 
> It has great build quality for a TB product but that is where the positives end for me. All the extra features are nice but they are no good when the actual quality of the game sound is so bad. Using any of the TB "surround" effects makes the sound completely unnatural and distorted. I couldn't even compare the surround abilities to the Dolby Headphone of Astro Mixamps because of how bad it sounded. Treble is super high pitched and fatiguing and nothing sounds like it should. It turns realistic sounding guns into toys. It makes expensive headphones like the HD800 and TH900 sound like dollar store toys.
> 
> ...


 
 I dont know but the TAC sounds like I am listening through some tin cans lol.
  
 Still loving my Recon3D on my PS4 and Asus Xonar DG on my PC. I just hope Sennheiser's GSX 1200 does something better, although it will only be for PC....


----------



## Change is Good

Question about the L2. Is it the same size as the Urbanite XL? If so, those pads may be just what I'm looking for to roll with.


----------



## Evshrug

Hi guys! I'm back!
Been totally knocked out by a pretty strong cold since Monday... [spoiler = symptoms] I had fluids going all the wrong way out of all my orifaces and down my throat, culminating in an hour yesterday just begging something to come out of my poor butt. Sore throat and coughing all through the night too, so I didn't get good sleep till Wednesday. [/spoiler]
I just didn't feel up for pretty much anything, but I want to catch up on some posts I missed!




shuto77 said:


> What mid-fi headphones are people using for gaming? And has anyone tried out the PS4 VR yet? I'm curious if certain headphones will be too bulky to wear with the headset.



My mid-fi can is still the K612. Freeing up the funds let me save up till HD800-day, but I still have the K612 and like it.
As far as the PS VR goes, I got to try out that magnificent S.O.B. a few weekends ago during the VR Experience Tour, and filmed two of my buddies using it when it was their turn. I'd say the closed Sony headphones the rep had for us to use with the head-unit (can I please call it the Morpheus?) were fairly large, not completely circumaural but mostly around the ears. I don't think the huge Sennheiser HD800 would work with it, but I don't think the V-Moda M-80 or M-100 would work either. There's a fair amount of space between the plastic "halo" ring and the typical ear, so as long as you don't have elf ears or a headphone with an earcup that rises particularly high towards the crown of your head, the cup size should be ok. Bigger issue with the HD800 and V-Modas I mentioned (without actually trying them) is those headphones are designed for minimal gap coming away from your head, but you kind of need a gap because the Morpheus' "halo" is a bit thicker than an elastic headband as in an Occulus or Vive (which is how the Morpheus needs less clamp on your head and IMO helps the Morpheus be pretty comfortable and more balanced than expected). I bet a Beyer would fit great, AKGs are just so funky I'd have to try it to know.




lenroot77 said:


> So far so good! I'm running an optical out to the Bimby then dumping the sound into the LC. This seems to be working fine.
> 
> Or maybe it's just better to use the X7 Dac and line out it to the Amp directly???
> Ev? Feggy? Either of you have an opinion?



My line-outs aren't hissy or anything I'd call "noisy," though realistically by the time the signal reaches even the line-out it will have lost some of that theoretical "127 dB S:N" (different kind of noise at that level). I find the X7's dac to be decent, the Bifrost Uber that I have is a little different but not enough for me to bother with the setup and electric bill. The improvement would have to be more obviously enjoyable for me to bother with a better DAC, and connecting my Liquid Carbon to the X7's line-outs gives me the kind of improvement I wanted to hear.

Of course, I'd be curious about your thoughts/preferences, since you have all the gear right there. Please post differences of note that you observe between including the BMB or just going straight to your LC?




shuto77 said:


> Glad it's working out.
> I'll probably buy another one when I move.
> 
> How does it sound with the LC?



Pretty fantastic. The LC brings more fun and Cavalli's character to the mix, which IMO suits the HD800 really well for this price level. Not gonna lie, I have been lazy and just hooked up the HD800 straight to the X7 before... Little sharper in the treble and a little more hollow in the mids, not the special bass, but honestly still pretty good and IMO outpacing a mid-fi headphone on the same setup. The LC just makes it more "special" and immersive.




napalmhardcore said:


> Could have been intruiging but the lack of console support is a deal breaker. There seems to have been very little talk about the Turtle Beach TAC. Someone said they had it and would report back dozens of pages back but they never did.



Sure they did, most of what I remember was complaints about background noise and overall disappointment. At least, in this thread.
Still believe personal preference will rule the day.




clean6er said:


> What's the a16? Can you link to it? Does it do voice monitoring?



Dude, awesome round-up of different "mixers" (IMO they do more than just mix chat and game). Quite an enjoyable read, even if I felt like there could have been a "Mixing/Features" heading between the paragraph about the surround experience and the first section labeled "TAC."

Thing is, the way our ears and brains process the sound of directions, and especially rear directions, is very personal. I see evidence time and time again that some surround DSPs are just not going to work the same for different people. That's why you'll have some people prefer Dolby Headphone, DTS:X, CMSS-3D, SBX, or something else when there might be a different clear winner for you. Now, Smyth pioneered the personal measurement (PRIR) and surround recreation feature, which gets around all that and (I haven't heard it yet) theoretically should have the most convincing 3D illusion possible. Only thing is it's still trying to recreate a number of speakers (albeit now up to 16 from different directions) instead of applying those PRIRs to a live binaural mix, but it's still supposed to be uncanny and amazing.

The A16 does have a 3.5mm TRRS port to connect straight to a PS4 or Xbox controller, and mix chat/mix/game audio, but I don't know if the software includes mic monitoring. Personally, I haven't heard a Mic Monitoring solution I could stand yet (my own voice is so distracting), but it's just software and may be included.

Keep in mind the first Smyth Realizer (A8) cost about $3000 until basically they couldn't source the parts needed to keep making them, so the new price (and especially the Kickstarter price) is amazing, but you should still expect to spend over $1k USD to get as close to perfect as is currently possible.


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Oh yeah i forgot.
> 
> They also added 2 dac/amp (i believe) for the new "gaming" lineup for Sennheiser.
> 
> ...



Hmm, also interesting that Sennheiser would make more of a concentrated effort into the headphone surround game!



headphonesonly said:


> There's no optical input for us console peasants



Buuuuuuut yeah, they're assuming PC players will spend more money on sound than the (pretty sure it's significantly larger) population of console gamers. I'm not proving that perspective as true!




clean6er said:


> ...
> Just got a set of a900x ltd in the post. I thought they sounded good on the magni, but something just sounded a little souless,
> ...



:Trollface: It's the Magni, mate!
But seriously, the Magni has great power and performance specs, it's a decent starter value but too many people treat the M&M stack as endgame, without realizing all the numbers still add up to a hollow sound that's slightly bright, where music just "happens" but isn't as rich or rewarding as humming in the shower (especially when you hit that frequency where the walls start resonating... Mmmh!).

Might pair up well with flubby wet headphones at the lower price points for a kind of synergy through balance, but most of Schiit's amps seem to tend towards this "house sound" that IMO doesn't suit the voicing of most higher end headphones (maybe an Audeze or HD650 would pair well). The Audio Technica is already a bit air-y and low-calorie, so I could see how this easy-to-drive headphone would pair better with the headphone-out on a DSP device.


----------



## Clean6eR

evshrug said:


> Hi guys! I'm back!
> Been totally knocked out by a pretty strong cold since Monday...
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 hi!
  
 sad to hear you have been unwell, glad you are better.
  
 i apologies for my post being long and quite grammatically inaccurate and often confusing. i don't plan what i type and from one day to the next my opinions change based on the way i feel that day (some days i wanna listen to my denon d7100's and giggle with the bass and others i want a little speed from my stax!) if you want any info or for me to check anything or give a pretty poor impression of anything or aspect please ask. here is a picture of the sources i found (not sure if i have other, i know i have more wireless ones).
  

  
  
 when gaming i mean you could slap a set of Triton's on and after an hour your playing the game and as involved as you can be, but then switch to the cloud x or revolvers and a big smile slaps across your face as you can hear things like rain drops falling, and then move on to ath adg1 or hd800 and then the sound scape floods around you and you start to hear clearly where the people are and your game becomes easier to play.
  
Comparison
  
 when running around in the game listening for bad guys i find the DBHP<DTS:X=Razer surround<SBX.
  
 for me when I'm on my own i find open headphones great and can turn mic monitor off as i can hear my own voice yet i still prefer my voice at the same volume and processed sounding as those I'm chatting with to buy into the "in game" effect.
  
 when i have anyone else in the house with me i cannot stand hearing them in the back ground it destroys everything for me. this is why i like closed phones more than open for gaming. (i the look for most open sounding closed phones that block sound well) when using closed phones i need the voice monitor or else i shout and find it confusing, even the slightest delay in this monitor and again it throws me off badly! (X7 I'm looking at you!)
  

What are the most open sounding headphones that still isolate quite well (my D2000 do not isolate at all but the D7100 do?!)
  
 i kind of eliminate sources and phones for gaming using these criteria.
  
 it leaves me with a less capable voice monitoring Mixamp TR or the TAC. the features of each outside the monitor volume are pretty much matched.
  


evshrug said:


> Hmm, also interesting that Sennheiser would make more of a concentrated effort into the headphone surround game!
> Buuuuuuut yeah, they're assuming PC players will spend more money on sound than the (pretty sure it's significantly larger) population of console gamers. I'm not proving that perspective as true!
> :Trollface: It's the Magni, mate!
> But seriously, the Magni has great power and performance specs, it's a decent starter value but too many people treat the M&M stack as endgame, without realizing all the numbers still add up to a hollow sound that's slightly bright, where music just "happens" but isn't as rich or rewarding as humming in the shower (especially when you hit that frequency where the walls start resonating... Mmmh!).
> ...


 
  
 i only used the magni as it was the only one i found while I'm having some house work done, i have now found my lovely cube and MF v90-BHA, actually found my hdvd800 too but i broke the rca in jacks on it (a plug tore the outer shield of one of them off!)
  
 i hooked it up hoping to get rid of the noise the TAC has so i could use its PRO headset which has VERY "cool" ear pads! (magni if nothing else is silent) at first i thought it worked, i slapped the volume up max on the TAC including the balancing to max game and the noise floor was low enough to call silent at listenable levels, but then the voice monitor was like very quite, when adjusting it on the TAC no change happened, then i worked out the voice monitor on the line out is fixed! that's when took the TAC main volume down to where the voice monitor and game were even, at this stage the hiss is back just like the headphone out port but the sound was dryer like how you described the feeling of the magni,
  
 so outside amping could colour the sound but didn't seem to clean up the not fantastic source  in a game i wouldn't notice, but during a YouTube video or songs or idle on the desktop i can notice so its not good enough to use as a one setup solution for me. i prefer the TAC positional ques but if the mixamp increased the monitor sound to the same level as the TAC i could EASILY live with what i consider the lower grade surround. (personal opinion please don't flame). i run the amps off an ifi psu with the split power/data cable and don't have the end adapter to use the TR just yet but just hooked up the older mixamp in the picture to see how that goes. (AHHHH man that old one needs a Dolby live encoder and i cant find my omni! ill keep looking for the converter to use the TR)
  
*update on Mixamp TR usage:*
  
 hummmm, so the stream out port on the TR model is controlled via the command center on the pc. the big volume and mix knob on the TR unit do nothing to the stream out port at all. the voice monitor can only be turned on and off via the software and the levels must also be set via the software, this would make in game balancing a total arse. regardless here is a screen shot of how i need to set my levels before my voice is loud and clear and level with my friends voices.
  

  
 the surround and audio preset button work and effect the stream out port so seems the surround works this way. to get louder voice chat on this im guessing i could max my chat on the stream port and mute all the others then daisy chain this into the aux port on the front and turn that volume up in the software? ill try that now... (this wont let me use external amp but i don't really need or want to at this point)
  
 FAIL. its is only VERY slightly louder than just the mic monitor on its own it increases and decreases as the master volume is turned so the game and party chat are always louder. this just makes the TAC more of a useful gaming tool for how i play, i will still try some solo games on the mixamp through stream and headphone ports to compare the surround in more depth to the TAC.
  
 if i didnt really prefer the voice features of the TAC then without any question of doubt i would just use the X7 with the hd800's and be happy.
  
*Evshrug* : have you tried rolling the op amps on the X7, it makes a suprising difference the muses01 and ad627 combo has made it much less sterile sounding but i find it a little too slap happy with the bass.


----------



## Evshrug

1.) You just met me and already you sympathize and wish me good health. Well, thank you! Very kind! I am feeling better (only a few lingering effects), and into the bargain I got to act all juvenile and tell poop jokes. The whole process wasn't fun to live, and I know others have it worse, but you've gotta live the life you're dealt and I chose today to be amused by it all.

2.) Long posts? Meandering focus or circutuitous speaking till you finally arrive at your point? Who do you think I am! I write long posts most of the time, all the time. I think you're contributing, and you're the first person I think I've seen who has collected more headphone DSPs than me. I need to try the TAC and that Tritton A720+ puck thingy, have you tried the two surprisingly good Turtle Beach DSSes? If you lived in Pittsburgh, I'd be like "Omni? Wait! I've got mine... right here... There, told ya it was in my closet! Let me know how the tests go!"

3.) For gaming, the game itself is often stimulating enough to be entertainment by itself. When I had my AD700, I had a honeymoon period where everything sounded new, but after that I got kinda bored with "just music" and somehow felt guilty about drifting back to games. But after I got my Q701 and a hand-made tube amp, I had spine-chilling moments (Meridian Sensory Response) where now sometimes I just like seeking new music or just giving in to the call of the shuffle. So for me, I used to have a bunch of gaming reasons for picking a headphone, but then I remembered how enjoyable music can be and better headphones made the difference where music crossed the threshold back into something I actively spend time on.

4.)I think you have more experience than me about comfy, spacious-sounding, well-isolating headphones. What have been your faves so far? Someday I may need a good closed headphone!

5, 6, and a few more.)
I was gonna say more, but I've been falling asleep and forgetting what I was going to say since the last sentence of point 3.) so, G'night! Catch up more later!


----------



## Evshrug

I've not tried rolling OpAmps on my X7 yet. My OpAmp was, um, my Liquid Carbon or my tube amp and box of tubes (So many Vokshod Rockets! Yay!). Probably will someday, but I'm particularly intrigued by the OpAmps that Yethal tested out (and bought?) more than Muses. By default, a lot of Creative's stuff (without EQ) sounds a little "energetic" or "bright" to me, but a little subtractive EQ has done well for me (for free!) so far.

Fell asleep again for a sec. G'night!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> I've not tried rolling OpAmps on my X7 yet. My OpAmp was, um, my Liquid Carbon or my tube amp and box of tubes (So many Vokshod Rockets! Yay!). Probably will someday, but I'm particularly intrigued by the OpAmps that Yethal tested out (and bought?) more than Muses. By default, a lot of Creative's stuff (without EQ) sounds a little "energetic" or "bright" to me, but a little subtractive EQ has done well for me (for free!) so far.
> 
> Fell asleep again for a sec. G'night!



The bursons? I didn't buy them. It was a review sample. Full write up is linked in the X7 thread somewhere.
Good to have You back man. You went radio silent for so long I thought You were on the honeymoon.


----------



## Clean6eR

evshrug said:


> 1.) You just met me and already you sympathize and wish me good health. Well, thank you! Very kind! I am feeling better (only a few lingering effects), and into the bargain I got to act all juvenile and tell poop jokes. The whole process wasn't fun to live, and I know others have it worse, but you've gotta live the life you're dealt and I chose today to be amused by it all.





> Yea that might have come off a little creepy, i didn't mean it to, i don't wish anyone ill and mean it in way of manners not to freak people out. i have been using headfi for years to inform purchases and you are a big name in the posts i read, having you post a positive comment about a post is kinda cool for me, kinda like subscribing to a big youtube channel and having them reply to you!





> 2.) Long posts? Meandering focus or circutuitous speaking till you finally arrive at your point? Who do you think I am! I write long posts most of the time, all the time. I think you're contributing, and you're the first person I think I've seen who has collected more headphone DSPs than me. I need to try the TAC and that Tritton A720+ puck thingy, have you tried the two surprisingly good Turtle Beach DSSes? If you lived in Pittsburgh, I'd be like "Omni? Wait! I've got mine... right here... There, told ya it was in my closet! Let me know how the tests go!"





> i only have the DSS2, it was i think my first dsp box, it was kinda cool but i was heavy into "clean" sounds at that point and judged it to be a echo box that messed everything up (havent re assessed it since i threw it in a box  ) if i found a cheap dss1 i would get it just to trial but without voice monitor it will never stay in my main chain.





> 3.) For gaming, the game itself is often stimulating enough to be entertainment by itself. When I had my AD700, I had a honeymoon period where everything sounded new, but after that I got kinda bored with "just music" and somehow felt guilty about drifting back to games. But after I got my Q701 and a hand-made tube amp, I had spine-chilling moments (Meridian Sensory Response) where now sometimes I just like seeking new music or just giving in to the call of the shuffle. So for me, I used to have a bunch of gaming reasons for picking a headphone, but then I remembered how enjoyable music can be and better headphones made the difference where music crossed the threshold back into something I actively spend time on.





> i love those times you find a set of headphones that just capture you, my first OMG set were the k701 (the older type) i bought countless DAC's and AMPS trying to futher extended the sound stage (crazy i know) i found some yulong DAH1 with a ad1955 as a dac into the Magni (i know it seems odd) was just hard for me to see ever moving on from, then i went to Tokyo heard the hd800, then i heard it on the shennhiser amp and bam! just better in every way. still happy with them, but different itchs requires a different scratch so i buy more and more trying them out. (often based on reviews by people like you on here!)





> 4.)I think you have more experience than me about comfy, spacious-sounding, well-isolating headphones. What have been your faves so far? Someday I may need a good closed headphone!





> d2000= open and just soooo fun to listen to, didn't you say you have the th900(that was pervysage sorry), pretty sure they must destroy the d2000
> d7100= what happened? more detail, still bass crazy but just different, the wood earcups add a sound i hate, most closed sets i used have that can sound but the wood adds a flavour to the echo, i don't like it, maybe its the wood on mine that is bad but i'm not as much of a fan.
> mmx300= Good, detail bass and wide sounding a favorite of mine for quite some time. still love em
> t70= WOW VERY VERY detailed, shrill is the first impression but seal them well then play something with bass or explosion then you "get it" type moment.
> ...





> 5, 6, and a few more.)
> I was gonna say more, but I've been falling asleep and forgetting what I was going to say since the last sentence of point 3.) so, G'night! Catch up more later!





> TTYL (I'm in the UK BTW)


 
  
 when pervysage posted that video with the TAC/Astro comparsion its made me what to try some, anyone know any good quality but bottom price bracket capture cards for ps4 etc?


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> when pervysage
> posted that video with the TAC/Astro comparsion its made me what to try some, anyone know any good quality but bottom price bracket capture cards for ps4 etc?



Just find a used Elgato or Hauppage. Those should do fine. Or You can wait for the PS4 Neo, it will have 1080p recording, not sure about the framerate though.


----------



## Clean6eR

video recording might be too involved for me (I'm a lazy guy)
  
 so on neo record video while capturing audio out of astro/TAC then transfer video from ps4 to pc for transcoding audio to video?
  
 ill look at them elgato's, thanks for the tip off.
  
*update on Mixamp TR:*
  
 stream out and HP out have same processing. the magni on stream out actually sounds better than the HP out on this thing.
  
 the mixamp sounds alot more natural than the TAC. the video that pervysage posted shows that best. but it also sounds softened. a kind of dulled down level of detail, like the sharpness of a monitor has been set 1 too low for me, the magni might actually be helping it in this case! but then again the TAC is like someone taking more detail then slapping too much on top (like activating the premium level of AMA on my benq monitor instead of its standard setting, adding artifacts to the picture the TAC seems to add too much echo to be considered natural)
  
 of the two in my gaming i prefer the clearer but unrelastic detail of the TAC coupled with the better mic monitor over the more natural and dare i say it dulled sound of the Mixamp with weak voice monitor.
  
 features, surround and access i think the TAC is better of the two for how i game. if only the X7 had zero delay voice monitoring with the background noise removal thing applied (with just no enhancement monitoring it is almost zero delay but their is an annoying amount and LOADS of noise that you can't cut out (like having a source with a hiss!)
  
 has anyone got any voice monitoring tips for the x7, would it be better to run optical to my hdvd800 from the x7 than to use its own amp/dac?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Clean6eR, I've found your posts to be very informative. No need to apologise 
  
 I've just tested the voice monitoring on the Omni. I would assume (having read the manual a while back) that it is similar for the X7, just the X7 has more options. When in the mixer tab of the control panel, with the line in/mic array enabled (this also covers external mic volume on the Omni) I found voice monitoring to have negligible latency. Where I did find I heard noticeable latency was when I test on the Crystalvoice test page. I'm pretty sure that the latency free voice monitoring bypasses the Crystalvoice processing, meaning you'll hear background noise. Once it runs through the Crystalvoice processing it adds delay, so if you route it back (via voice monitoring in another program or via your consoles monitoring) you'll have the delay of the processing plus the roundtrip back which will add even more latency. Basically, I think your options are direct voice monitoring (no noise cancellation etc) or hearing the processed signal with a delay. It's much the same with my Focusrite Scarlett. I can directly monitor with no effects/EQ, or I can send it to my DAW, apply some effects/EQ, but have a delay when it gets routed back out.
  
 Anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
  
 Evshrug, glad to hear you're feeling better.


----------



## Clean6eR

Napalmhardcore your a legend! i have an onmi but can't be arsed to install the drivers (will do later to compare the delay and ill let you know compared to the x7)
  
 Focusrite Scarlett! i was going to buy one and an audio technica xlr headset to use with razer surround to get what I'm after on the PC.
  
 can you try reading a paragraph to yourself from a book with the monitor on and closed or in ear hp's on the omni and then the scarlett?
  
 I'm almost sure the Scarlett is pretty close to zero delay, I'd compare that to the delay on the mixamp,TAC,Tritton ones, plantronics rig, and sound blaster x-fi platinum that i have. (but not zero delay on my zxr when playing with surround processing on!)
  
 when i try reading with a delay i get all messed up. that's the issue i have with delays.
  
 its like the analogue is still processed to some level prior to feeding back.
  
 i have the same experience as you on the x7 and the crystal voice stuff, i like your explanation.
  
 man i just hooked up the x7 again, its significantly better than the TAC. my bass is a little too punchy like its deviating, I'm reading the x7 thread that yethal mentioned and the poster says the op amps run on 22v. my muses are rated to 17v i think. switched them back to the originals and got an improvement. pretty sure they are not supplied 22v though as the two mono amps are rated at like 18v on the stock amps. i need a hand held multi meter!
  
 thanks for checking the omni out again.


----------



## Tenzo

I've read the front & back of this page... so whats the current recommendation of soundcard vs amp/dac in terms of competitive gaming? What is the recommended setup?
  
 I currently have an O2/ODAC and i'm not really impressed with the positional audio when paired with the K7xx (or x2). I've tried Soundblaster Z and played around with SBX, and I'm not really sure what my ears are hearing. They are louder for sure, but better? Hard to tell.


----------



## akg fanboy

Wow a lot of great information. I'm surprised even the koss esp950 is on here, I'll be on reading quite a bit it seems


----------



## Clean6eR

tenzo said:


> I've read the front & back of this page... so whats the current recommendation of soundcard vs amp/dac in terms of competitive gaming? What is the recommended setup?
> 
> I currently have an O2/ODAC and i'm not really impressed with the positional audio when paired with the K7xx (or x2). I've tried Soundblaster Z and played around with SBX, and I'm not really sure what my ears are hearing. They are louder for sure, but better? Hard to tell.


 
 if pc gaming why not download the razer surround software (its free) set it up and play a few rounds of your fav game through the razer then vanilia odac to compare if virtual surround in general helps you pinpoint locations better, if it does its then onto, dts:x,dolby headphone, sbx, razer surround etc etc.
  
 i just plugged in my logitech g633 which has dolby headphone AND dts:x so i can switch between then mid game.
  
 its true that dts is much more echo'y sounding but equally i find it better to locate sources and height of locations in games like seige. as a gaming tool i prefer dts:x to dolby.


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> if pc gaming why not download the razer surround software (its free) set it up and play a few rounds of your fav game through the razer then vanilia odac to compare if virtual surround in general helps you pinpoint locations better, if it does its then onto, dts:x,dolby headphone, sbx, razer surround etc etc.


 
 Razer Surround is really, really bad when compared to DH or SBX. The only software solution worth considering is Out Of Your Head (whcih unfortunately is pretty costly and has some issues, but sounds amazing).


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Razer Surround is really, really bad when compared to DH or SBX. The only software solution worth considering is Out Of Your Head (whcih unfortunately is pretty costly and has some issues, but sounds amazing).


 
 thanks for the info about the "out of your head" thing. i just watched the 6 min video. used the t70's i must say i hate the processing on movie soundtracks and even more on stereo music tracks but it is a convincing image of stereo speakers in front of you. i prefer using hd800 and clean stereo though.
  
 for gaming and 5.1/7.1 could be good! i suggested the razer stuff cos its free and the person can then get an easy sample of the surround effects in what ever game they want to try.
  
 the more i a/b my stuff the more often im settling with the x7 with t70's/cloud revolvers for closed competivite/fun and hd800/ath-adg1 for open fun/competitive.
  
 for ease of use and quick setup i have a lot of love for the TAC but its noise floor leave that only workable with hd800, ath adg1, and t70's.
  
 im having have messing around with it all!


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> thanks for the info about the "out of your head" thing. i just watched the 6 min video. used the t70's i must say i hate the processing on movie soundtracks and even more on stereo music tracks but it is a convincing image of stereo speakers in front of you. i prefer using hd800 and clean stereo though.
> 
> for gaming and 5.1/7.1 could be good! i suggested the razer stuff cos its free and the person can then get an easy sample of the surround effects in what ever game they want to try.
> 
> ...


 

 The "free" part is the only good thing about Razer Surround IMO. For me the simulation was just really unconvincing, it sounded as if someone added reverb to the basic stereo signal. Unfortunately, OOYH does not provide an easy to use demo. Their trial version mutes audio after two minutes, it requires restart afterwards. However their gaming preset is really nice.
  
 How are the T70 for gaming? I thought that maybe for my next headphone upgrade, instead of buying a full set I'll buy drivers only and transplant them into the COP shell to take advantage of the headset cable and variable bass.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

clean6er said:


> Napalmhardcore your a legend! i have an onmi but can't be arsed to install the drivers (will do later to compare the delay and ill let you know compared to the x7)
> 
> Focusrite Scarlett! i was going to buy one and an audio technica xlr headset to use with razer surround to get what I'm after on the PC.
> 
> ...


 

 I've not had a chance to test yet, but in the case of the Scarlett, do you mean to try monitoring the signal once it has been sent to a DAW (digital audio workstation) with effects applied or zero latency monitoring? If the latter, I can already tell you the answer. When set up for zero latency monitoring, the Scarlett (I'm using the 6i6) doesn't do any analogue to digital conversion, it's an all analogue path. You can configure it in the software and then unplug it from the computer and use it as a stand-alone device. I've tried playing guitar etc through it and there seems to be no delay whatsoever.
  
 If you mean to test it with effects applied (routing it into a DAW and back out again) I'd have to set up and test. I would expect the latency to be pretty low (depending on how it is setup). When routing in and out of a DAW it would be utilising optimised ASIO drivers. Outside of a DAW however, it uses Windows drivers and only operates in 16 bit mode and I can't remember off the top of my head what sample rates are available.
  
 I'll test the Omni again in a bit and try reading a couple of passages to myself.


----------



## Clean6eR

napalmhardcore said:


> I've not had a chance to test yet, but in the case of the Scarlett, do you mean to try monitoring the signal once it has been sent to a DAW (digital audio workstation) with effects applied or zero latency monitoring? If the latter, I can already tell you the answer. When set up for zero latency monitoring, the Scarlett (I'm using the 6i6) doesn't do any analogue to digital conversion, it's an all analogue path. You can configure it in the software and then unplug it from the computer and use it as a stand-alone device. I've tried playing guitar etc through it and there seems to be no delay whatsoever.
> 
> If you mean to test it with effects applied (routing it into a DAW and back out again) I'd have to set up and test. I would expect the latency to be pretty low depending on how it is setup). When routing in and out of a DAW it would be utilising optimised ASIO drivers. Outside of a DAW however, it uses Windows drivers and only operates in 16 bit mode and I can't remember off the top of my head what sample rates are available.
> 
> I'll test the Omni again in a bit and try reading a couple of passages to myself.


 
 sorry my suggestion was a tad patronizing. the direct monitor on the Scarlett without any processing would be my benchmark of zero latency monitoring (this is how i find the Mixamp and TAC monitor) how does the omni compare is what i was asking.
  
 the reading a book while using isolating headphones is the way i test how close to zero it is. oddly my x7 with non of the crystal voice on is actually pretty much on point (previously i must have been using the remove back ground noise option to get the delay, as you explained before), it has a horrible hiss without the crystal voice cleaning it up but better than my logitech g633's monitor(hissyer?). i still by a mile favor the TAC mic monitor.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

clean6er said:


> sorry my suggestion was a tad patronizing. the direct monitor on the Scarlett without any processing would be my benchmark of zero latency monitoring (this is how i find the Mixamp and TAC monitor) how does the omni compare is what i was asking.
> 
> the reading a book while using isolating headphones is the way i test how close to zero it is. oddly my x7 with non of the crystal voice on is actually pretty much on point (previously i must have been using the remove back ground noise option to get the delay, as you explained before), it has a horrible hiss without the crystal voice cleaning it up but better than my logitech g633's monitor(hissyer?). i still by a mile favor the TAC mic monitor.


 

 You weren't being at all patronising. I understood what you were getting at. I just wasn't sure if you wanted to know if the latency of the Scarlett with effects was low enough for voice monitoring or if you wanted me to test if the Omni is usable (I assume you mean with no effects applied). I'll hook em up in a while and test it for you


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> The "free" part is the only good thing about Razer Surround IMO. For me the simulation was just really unconvincing, it sounded as if someone added reverb to the basic stereo signal. Unfortunately, OOYH does not provide an easy to use demo. Their trial version mutes audio after two minutes, it requires restart afterwards. However their gaming preset is really nice.
> 
> How are the T70 for gaming? I thought that maybe for my next headphone upgrade, instead of buying a full set I'll buy drivers only and transplant them into the COP shell to take advantage of the headset cable and variable bass.


 
 i got the COP too! i put dynamat inside the cups and their is much less platic ring then and with the holes closed and a chinese set of protien leather and memory foam pads i get a level of isolation unlike ANY other headphones i have.
  
 i dont game with them as they are too sensitive for the TAC plus to be honest the mmx300 and t70 are wider sounding but cannot compete for isolation! i was going to buy the custom one studio's at 80ohm hoping they would pick up less hiss on the TAC.
  
 slapping t70 drivers in that case could be awesome! let me know if you do that how it goes!
  
 the t70 is faster sounding and dryer than the COP by quite some margin, without a seal on the pads the bass almost disappears and sounds not great but put them on well (i wear glasses) and the bass goes low and snaps.
  
 if you can try them out its worth it, buying blind (i did) was a surprise in a way but one I'm happy with.
  
 im now keeping my eye out for a t5 as my end game closed set.


----------



## Change is Good

clean6er said:


> i got the COP too! i put dynamat inside the cups and their is much less platic ring then and with the holes closed and a chinese set of protien leather and memory foam pads *i get a level of isolation unlike ANY other headphones i have*.
> 
> i dont game with them as they are too sensitive for the TAC *plus to be honest the mmx300 and t70 are wider sounding but cannot compete for isolation*! i was going to buy the custom one studio's at 80ohm hoping they would pick up less hiss on the TAC.




I find well isolating headphones to be great for single player immersion, but not ideal when game chatting. Same with iems. Talking while having my ears muffled causes some serious ear fatigue.


----------



## Change is Good

Yethal, we have to play some Bloodborne together sometime. I'm awake during crazy hours sometimes so I hope to catch you online one of these days.


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> i got the COP too! i put dynamat inside the cups and their is much less platic ring then and with the holes closed and a chinese set of protien leather and memory foam pads i get a level of isolation unlike ANY other headphones i have.
> 
> i dont game with them as they are too sensitive for the TAC plus to be honest the mmx300 and t70 are wider sounding but cannot compete for isolation! i was going to buy the custom one studio's at 80ohm hoping they would pick up less hiss on the TAC.
> 
> ...


 

 I'm surprised that COP modding never became as big as i.e t50rp modding. Those headphones are very easy to modify. Everything can be disassembled, nothing is glued together. The cable is removable by default. Seems like an easy target for improvement.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I'm surprised that COP modding never became as big as i.e t50rp modding. Those headphones are very easy to modify. Everything can be disassembled, nothing is glued together. The cable is removable by default. Seems like an easy target for improvement.




I think because the T50rp mods improve an already capable driver, while something like a COP mod will require actual driver swapping. Still an interesting project, nonetheless.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Yethal, we have to play some Bloodborne together sometime. I'm awake during crazy hours sometimes so I hope to catch you online one of these days.


 
 This might be tricky. I live in the EST timezone, there's 7-9 hour offset between here and the US. I work 6am-2pm but still, that's about 9pm-5am American time.


change is good said:


> I think because the T50rp mods improve an already capable driver, while something like a COP mod will require actual driver swapping. Still an interesting project, nonetheless.


 

 I meant mods like the ones Packdemon is doing. Swapping pretty much everything but leaving the cups and the headset cable. Last time I checked he built a COP with DT1770 drivers inside.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> This might be tricky. I live in the EST timezone, there's 7-9 hour offset between here and the US. I work 6am-2pm but still, that's about 9pm-5am American time.
> 
> 
> I meant mods like the ones Packdemon is doing. Swapping pretty much everything but leaving the cups and the headset cable. Last time I checked he built a COP with DT1770 drivers inside.




You'll be surprised at the hours I'm up playing, sometimes. I'm honestly surprised I don't catch you online that often. I have a couple Euro pals I game with during late late nights/early mornings.

Damn, son. A COP with DT1770 drivers sounds like gold!


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> You'll be surprised at the hours I'm up playing, sometimes. I'm honestly surprised I don't catch you online that often. I have a couple Euro pals I game with during late late nights/early mornings.
> 
> Damn, son. A COP with DT1770 drivers sounds like gold!


 

 I don't play video games at home as often as I used to. It's not that I don't like to, it's just that after 8 hours of playing them at work I'd like to do something else for a change.


----------



## Evshrug

Do you play games at work (like a nighttime Security Guard I know), or do you get paid to play games for work?


----------



## mindbomb

I don't know if I'm the first person to make this observation, but it seems virtual surround quality is directly related to impulse response, noted on a bunch of models at http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements, where the more quickly it is able to dissipate energy means the timing will be more precise and the better the effect will work.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I don't play video games at home as often as I used to. It's not that I don't like to, it's just that after 8 hours of playing them at work I'd like to do something else for a change.




I don't blame ya, man. The job must be sweet though! I'll try to catch you online during your work ours.




evshrug said:


> Do you play games at work (like a nighttime Security Guard I know), or do you get paid to play games for work?




He's a dev for an indie studio, Harebrained Schemes, I believe? They released Necropolis just recently.

https://youtu.be/Bksjk_yPga0


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Do you play games at work (like a nighttime Security Guard I know), or do you get paid to play games for work?


 
 I'm a video game tester, I get paid to play games that are yet to be released and find bugs in them.


change is good said:


> I don't blame ya, man. The job must be sweet though! I'll try to catch you online during your work ours.
> He's a dev for an indie studio, I believe. They released Necropolis just recently.
> 
> https://youtu.be/Bksjk_yPga0


 
 I don't actually work at Harebrained Schemes, I'm what's called an external QA. Devs hire us to test games for them.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I'm a video game tester, I get paid to play games that are yet to be released and find bugs in them.




You worked on Necropolis, though, right? Or were you just testing it?


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> You worked on Necropolis, though, right? Or were you just testing it?


 

 I still am working on it. We're doing a bit more stuff than just finding bugs, we also provide feedback on game design, balance etc. I even have my own easter egg in that game.


----------



## eltorrete

fegefeuer said:


> I'd always use the superior chain to do the D/A conversion and amping and since the Bimby is somewhat a "always on" device anyway (to sound best) there is no point to switching to the X7's Line Out at all.
> 
> Plus the X7 LO is inferior to any good DAC I've used. Something like the V800, Anedio D2 is absolutely dead silent.


 
  
  since they are talking about it I ask here too
  
 What choice would believe that improvement on the X7 with my TH-X00 and HE-400i?
  
  
     - Amp like Violectric V100 connected to the output line of X7.
  
     - DAC / AMP like Grace M9xx connected to the optical output X7.
  
     - Neither.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks like the PS4 Slim doesn't have an optical out, for some horrible reason. They better not do the same with the Neo, or I'm boycotting.


----------



## Fegefeuer

They probably will. It's time for a 11.2 setup my friend. You should start making some space for serious rumble and roar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah, living 'at home', all that would be wasted. I actually used the HE400 after like 2 months, today, while playing 'Inside'. Great game, from the creators of Limbo.

Once I build a PC (waiting on Kaby Lake, assuming the rumor is true that they'll make the newer processors for both LGA1151, and a new socket, so I can just get a mobo with a new socket to last a few years), I'll opt for a decent stereo bookshelf speaker setup to hook up to the X7LE. Any affordable recommendations? Perhaps I'll ask Creative to send out their speakers they made to pair with the X7. Who knows.

edit: Though looking at it, looks like the Kaby lake will be on LGA1151 for this year, and whatever next gen socket is NEXT year. I don't think I can wait that long. My laptop is dying. Definitely mobo related.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I always recommend the JBL LSR 305/308 speakers. You can get them for a great price. I used to own the Neumann KH120A and still liked the JBL a lot. 
  
 Imo waiting for new gens is a waste. I'll never do it again and until last years always did. If you check the prices you can score with buying from upgraditis affected PC gamers that take good care of their hardware, buying something new is a waste of money when you can get stuff so much cheaper with really low performance disadvantages. 

 My brother recently paid half of the price a 6700k+Z170 Deluxe Mainboard + Ram because the guy switched to a six-core. Everything like new, with all accessoires complete.


----------



## stinkytofus

how does akg k7xx mass drop edition compare to akg k702?
  
 thanks


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> Hah, living 'at home', all that would be wasted. I actually used the HE400 after like 2 months, today, while playing 'Inside'. Great game, from the creators of Limbo.
> 
> Once I build a PC (waiting on Kaby Lake, assuming the rumor is true that they'll make the newer processors for both LGA1151, and a new socket, so I can just get a mobo with a new socket to last a few years), I'll opt for a decent stereo bookshelf speaker setup to hook up to the X7LE. Any affordable recommendations? Perhaps I'll ask Creative to send out their speakers they made to pair with the X7. Who knows.
> 
> edit: Though looking at it, looks like the Kaby lake will be on LGA1151 for this year, and whatever next gen socket is NEXT year. I don't think I can wait that long. My laptop is dying. Definitely mobo related.


 

 I was going to wait for Kaby Lake too, but I don't think I can hold on either. That's the problem with buying a PC. It never seems like a good time to pull the trigger because there's always something better just around the corner. Last time I bought a PC, 18 months later Windows 7 and DX11 came out. GRRR!
  
 In regards to speakers, what would you call affordable? I currently have a pair of Montior Audio Bronze 2s that I'm very much enjoying. In fact, I have some Wharfedale Diamond 10.0s that need a home if you're interested.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd probably get these, as I heard nothing but good things about them, and it's from the same line as the soundbar I used to have. The bookshelf speakers are said to be the best of the entire line, and the price seems decent.

https://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS22-LR-Designed-Bookshelf-Loudspeakers/dp/B008NCD2LG/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1471969786&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=andrew+jones+bookshelf

Assuming the X7LE can power them properly.

I have a large desk 78", but even so, these look gigantic, lol.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad!
The Pioneers should be great with the X7LE. I really really like my Chane bookshelf speakers, but you know I have the standard X7 and the power deficit compared to my Yamaha receiver is noticeable, I don't know if the LE edition would help enough (maybe). The Chanes are "true" 8 Ohm speakers, while the SP-BS22-LR Pioneer bookshelves are 4 Ohms and the kind of speakers the X7 LE was designed for (alongside the EMU speakers, haven't heard those).


My PC upgrade has the opposite problem. I built a desktop like 3 and half years ago, and I just don't feel like a whole new computer has enough performance increase to justify buying a new one without spending more money than before. That said, if my PC completely died today and I needed a whole new system, then I'd just happily buy the current generation (and probably spring for something VR-capable), or maybe a powerful used last-gen setup on the cheap.


----------



## Tenzo

You know whats frustrating about being a serious gamer? Getting serious sound.
  
 What the best graphics card? You can find that easily within 20 seconds. Buy it. Done.
 Best processor? 20 seconds. Best monitor? Maybe a few hours of researching.
  
 Sound? I've spent dozens of hours researching sound, spend hundreds on cans, headsets, amp/dacs, soundcards... and I still don't feel I know what the best setup is in terms of competitive advantage. That is just frustrating.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

tenzo said:


> You know whats frustrating about being a serious gamer? Getting serious sound.
> 
> What the best graphics card? You can find that easily within 20 seconds. Buy it. Done.
> Best processor? 20 seconds. Best monitor? Maybe a few hours of researching.
> ...


 

 Personally, I think part of what makes for a good competitive setup is familiarity. Getting used to your equipment and learning how to read the cues it provides will be valuable in the same way that using a controller you are used to or a particular mouse sensitivity is. For example, I use a relatively low DPI setting as I find it makes me more precise and I'm happy with the trade-off of having to make larger movements to do a 180/360 etc. If I were to turn my sensitivity up a whole lot, I wouldn't be used to it and I'd have to spend time familiarising myself with how it will react as opposed to it being second nature. If you are constantly switching sound devices, you won't get used to its subtleties.
  
 In the case of a first person shooter, a mouse and keyboard or a controller doesn't represent the way we interact with the real world, instead it is a somewhat intuitive way of approximating it. Similarly, stereo and virtual surround devices like a soundcard or Mixamp don't perfectly recreate the way we hear sound in the real world. It is a somewhat intuitive approximation and so we must take time to make it second nature as we do with a keyboard and mouse or controller.
  
 With VR, the aim is to interact with the virtual world in a manner that more closely replicates how we interact with the real world (and therefore be more intuitive). Again, a parallel can be drawn with sound devices such as the Smyth Realiser.


----------



## NamelessPFG

tenzo said:


> You know whats frustrating about being a serious gamer? Getting serious sound.
> 
> What the best graphics card? You can find that easily within 20 seconds. Buy it. Done.
> Best processor? 20 seconds. Best monitor? Maybe a few hours of researching.
> ...


 
  
 Tell me about it. There's a reason I have a retrogaming setup with _three sound cards_ in it, all with certain specific features that games use that the rest don't have and which aren't emulated at all with current software.
  
 And even when you get into the A3D/EAX age, things are still complex because now you get to worry about how different driver versions make particular games sound on top of having the right chipset in your card; for instance, A3D 2.0 with wavetracing requires an Aureal AU8830 Vortex2-based card despite all the reflections being done in software on the CPU, and certain Win9x-era games may require a Sound Blaster Live! with Win9x VXD drivers to sound correct. I've even noticed drastic changes in how DS3D-based games sound when updating Creative's ALchemy utility over the years, even on the same X-Fi hardware.
  
 Even when you get all the source stuff sorted out, there's the ever-so-subjective nature of audio itself. No two people hear the same way, and thus you don't have everyone agreeing that, say, the Stax SR-009 + Blue Hawaii SE or Sennheiser Orpheus is the world's best headphone setup, even with their astronomical price tags.
  
 This isn't like shopping for a video card and looking at framerate numbers and supported features; it's a lot less objective past a certain point in quality, plus you don't ever have to worry about comfort on your head over long periods of time when you buy a graphics card or a monitor.
  
 I will say this, though: if the "fun/competitive balance" is simply an adjustment in the quantity of bass, then an EQ can easily skew that in one direction or the other. Thus, I'd focus far more on the overall comfort, sound quality, and synergy with various virtual surround mixes.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I've just been doing a bit of research on various sound technologies. First I was better informing myself about how sound projectors work and as you do when researching stuff, one thing leads to another and I started finding out more about Dolby Atmos.
  
 As I'd stopped closely following this thread and gaming audio for a while before jumping back in, I wasn't aware that Overwatch uses Dolby Atmos for headphones. Has anyone tried it, and if so how does it compare to stuff like Dolby Headphone and SBX?


----------



## Evshrug

napalmhardcore said:


> I've just been doing a bit of research on various sound technologies. First I was better informing myself about how sound projectors work and as you do when researching stuff, one thing leads to another and I started finding out more about Dolby Atmos.
> 
> As I'd stopped closely following this thread and gaming audio for a while before jumping back in, I wasn't aware that Overwatch uses Dolby Atmos for headphones. Has anyone tried it, and if so how does it compare to stuff like Dolby Headphone and SBX?



Overwatch only uses Dolby ATMOS for the PC version. It's promising technology that may someday lead back to above and below 3D audio tailored for the playback setup (stereo speakers, surround speakers, or headphones) instead of just universally funneling all audio into a home theater speaker setup.

I remember Rudyrae freaking out about atmos and gobbling up any info he could on it, but I don't think he got to play with it, yet.

AxelCloris got Overwatch for PC, maybe he or others can drop a line or two of impressions?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Overwatch only uses Dolby ATMOS for the PC version. It's promising technology that may someday lead back to above and below 3D audio tailored for the playback setup (stereo speakers, surround speakers, or headphones) instead of just universally funneling all audio into a home theater speaker setup.
> 
> I remember Rudyrae freaking out about atmos and gobbling up any info he could on it, but I don't think he got to play with it, yet.
> 
> @AxelCloris got Overwatch for PC, maybe he or others can drop a line or two of impressions?


 

 Thanks. I'm guessing that theoretically it would be similar to Dolby Headphone but with more info as presumably they are using similar HRT techniques. From the research I've done, it certainly sounds promising.
  
 On a separate note. I was just checking out a DTS Headphone X and Dolby Headphone comparison 
  
 Interestingly, the Dolby Headphone example seems to sound more dampened and less clear than the DTS Headphone X and stereo mix. The DTS Headphone X example seems to be more similar to the stereo mix in terms of EQ than the Dolby Headphone example does.
  
 Because I've been using a Mixamp for a lot of my gaming, when I heard the Mixamp and TAC comparison posted recently, it made me think that the TAC sounded thin. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it is actually a case of Dolby Headphone fattening the sound and maybe muffling it a bit, though I'd have to do some more testing to arrive at a conclusion. I'm now thinking about getting a TAC so that I can test more thoroughly.


----------



## Clean6eR

> Interestingly, the Dolby Headphone example seems to sound more dampened and less clear than the DTS Headphone X and stereo mix. The DTS Headphone X example seems to be more similar to the stereo mix in terms of EQ than the Dolby Headphone example does.
> 
> Because I've been using a Mixamp for a lot of my gaming, when I heard the Mixamp and TAC comparison posted recently, it made me think that the TAC sounded thin. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it is actually a case of Dolby Headphone fattening the sound and maybe muffling it a bit, though I'd have to do some more testing to arrive at a conclusion. I'm now thinking about getting a TAC so that I can test more thoroughly.


 
  
 that video feels a little biased, almost like the dts:X was a engineering soundtrack and the Dolby was an applied effect (like comparing the dts:X track off a blu ray compared to the 5.1 through a mixamp of the same film?)
  
 but the Dolby does when compared to the dtsx on the mixamp to TAC shootout i did feels slightly smoothed or muffled. but in turn the surround sounds more organic and the TAC more tin can echo'y.
  
 i prefer the echoy because the details seem emphasized while Dolby seems to smooth the detail and makes it harder to pick out. also i still feel i can locate sounds easier on the TAC. (all personal impressions not facts!)
  
 then again the sbx on the x7 has a natural surround but still lots of detail, a sort of best of the both
  
 for me i rank:
  
 x7 sbx > TAC dts:x > Mixamp DH
  
 oh and after reading this forum more i just found the x7 firmware update! i can throw headphone surround to my hdvd800 via optical!!! but even more importantly they added varying boost to the mic now. i think this might be my final setup. (even if the monitor is slightly delayed, ill try to learn to speak less, as you can tell i struggle with this skill...)
  
 (probably keep switching and comparing between the TAC and the X7)
  
 headphone wise i have cut my lot down to 4.
  
 open:
 hd800
 ath adg1
  
 closed:
 denon d7100
 T70
  
 the t70 and hd800 music wise come to life using the hdvd800 it adds warmth to them and just makes them sound amazing, the x7 with default op amps in comparison is a little harsher sounding, brittle'ish. i stuck muses01's in it and they are better than the muses02 in the IV stage but still add more bass snap than i think is "correct" on some tracks it almost sounds like its deviating or breaking up! (not as bad as when i had muses02 and 627's that was TOO much break up sounding) i will be putting ad797's in when i get them in the post to try and further enhance the sound stage's width.
  
 i want to use just the x7 and its amp as its cleaner looking on the table but i need to cut it down to just 2 headphones and a mod mic, one open and one closed, i think the hd800's will do for the open, but not sure if i should pick one of the two closed ones i have already or stump up for the t5p's.
  
 anyone have experience with op amp rolling and suggestions for sound stage improvements?
  
 anyone have t5p's and can compare them to others with a focus on sound stage?
  
 anyone know any wider sounding or 3d style closed phones that i have overlooked?
  
 probably millions of these on youtube but quite a good comparision of pc overwatch atmos and creative's sbx at 33%
link
 atmos sands pretty good, i get easier cues for front and back from the sbx though, i think im not a pro dolby guy, or one of my ears don't work!


----------



## Yethal

As for op-amp rolling, read the earfonia's comparison on the main X7 thread and/or my reviews op-amp reviews as these were all done using an X7.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> As for op-amp rolling, read the earfonia's comparison on the main X7 thread and/or my reviews op-amp reviews as these were all done using an X7.


 
 Thanks,
  
 yea i bought the 797's based on that x7 post, i had the others already at home, ill look at your posts, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!


----------



## EvenR

Can we get some ratings on the Ether C? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I'm looking for a comfortable headphone i can wear for hours without heat and great for competitve and nice sounding overall.


----------



## alitomr

Hello All,
  
 I am currently using my HD600 with my Valhalla 2 and modi 2 uber for gaming, and even though they are very good, I want something better in terms of soundstage, and maybe a little more impact. The HD600 are very nice, and the pairing with the Valhalla 2 provides an incredible imaging. I went back to the Sony Gold Wireless headset and I simply can't stand them after the HD600. It became impossible for me to know the exact position of the sounds/tangos, something that was incredibly precise with the HD600.
  
 After reading this very nice post from MAd Lust ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added ) I have it narrowed down to the Senheiser Game One headset, the Beyerdynamic DT990, AKG702 and AKG  K612Pro. 
  
 A lot of people have recommended the Beyers to me, because I really like the Klipsch sound signature, and some say they spiked treble may provide the attack and sparkle I love from my Klipsch speakers. 
  
 The sennheiser headset probably made the list because even though I have a microphone setup with a couple mixer with my PS4, sometimes some noise bother my friends playing with me in the party/chat. They made the list because of the convenience they could provide with the mic not picking up all sounds in the room. 
  
 What do you think?
  
 Who have tried all these in the list?


----------



## Yethal

evenr said:


> Can we get some ratings on the Ether C Flow?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 None whatsoever.


----------



## kellte2

evenr said:


> Can we get some ratings on the Ether C Flow?
> 
> I'm looking for a comfortable headphone i can wear for hours without heat and great for competitve and nice sounding overall.




There are very few FLOW models in the wild at the moment. Your best bet would be to read up on the impressions thread. 

The C Flows appear to be a better low end response than the C's. Again, there are very few members with these in their possession as MrSpeakers is still waiting on packaging to ship out the first run, and even fewer with the recommended 200 hours of burn-in prescribed by Dan (of MrSpeakers). 

Dan claims that the open model will have a larger soundstage and less sub bass than the closed FLOW, so take that for whatever it is worth.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, he can improve on the Flow with Version 1.1 or 1.1b. Maybe the Flow 1.3a has better soundstage depth and Flow 1.5.1 Beta Build 3 adds a nice left-right extension.


----------



## kellte2

fegefeuer said:


> well, he can improve on the Flow with Version 1.1 or 1.1b. Maybe the Flow 1.3a has better soundstage depth and Flow 1.5.1 Beta Build 3 adds a nice left-right extension. :evil:




I'm game if the upgrades are available to all for under $10 a pop, like 1.1. 

Admittedly, I have an Ether C Flow on order, so I'm hoping that they're as good as the pre-release hype has indicated thus far.


----------



## EvenR

yethal said:


> None whatsoever.


 
  


kellte2 said:


> There are very few FLOW models in the wild at the moment. Your best bet would be to read up on the impressions thread.
> 
> The C Flows appear to be a better low end response than the C's. Again, there are very few members with these in their possession as MrSpeakers is still waiting on packaging to ship out the first run, and even fewer with the recommended 200 hours of burn-in prescribed by Dan (of MrSpeakers).
> 
> Dan claims that the open model will have a larger soundstage and less sub bass than the closed FLOW, so take that for whatever it is worth.


 
 Oops i meant some ratings for Ether C (NOT FLOW).
  
 He has written a nice review but where are the ratings (Fun, Competitive, Comfort,) for a nice and quick comparison with the other headphones?


----------



## kellte2

No more





evenr said:


> Oops i meant some ratings for Ether C (NOT FLOW).
> 
> He has written a nice review but where are the ratings (Fun, Competitive, Comfort,) for a nice and quick comparison with the other headphones?


 no more numbers. Has been repeatedly stated. 

From the plain language of the review, it reads like the best all around headphone he has tried. It's all very subjective, so try to track down a pair to try if you're curious.


----------



## EvenR

kellte2 said:


> No more
> no more numbers. Has been repeatedly stated.
> 
> From the plain language of the review, it reads like the best all around headphone he has tried. It's all very subjective, so try to track down a pair to try if you're curious.


 
 Damn it. I miss the numbers.


----------



## Yethal

evenr said:


> Oops i meant some ratings for Ether C (NOT FLOW).
> 
> He has written a nice review but where are the ratings (Fun, Competitive, Comfort,) for a nice and quick comparison with the other headphones?


 

 Read the review and You'll know why there aren't any.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Damn it feels good to see the Schiit Jotunheim, after having lengthy debates here with people who argued that Schiit would never do a full dac/amp. All I can do is be smug and laugh internally.

You can't ignore demand.

Too bad I rarely touch my headphone stuff now. But MAN, I'd have instantly ordered the Jotunheim had it been released a few years ago.


----------



## shankly1985

How good is the Schiit Stack for Gaming? I using a Sound Blaster Z with Philips X1 Worth the buy or should I stick and maybe upgrade headphones? Philips X2 worth over the X1
 If not what Headphones out your list would you say is better all rounder but mostly Gaming.

 Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

I'm streaming some Until Dawn on my Twitch. If you are bored join me up. I have no real life so, yeah, this is the highlight of my Saturday night.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I'm streaming some Until Dawn on my Twitch. If you are bored join me up. I have no real life so, yeah, this is the highlight of my Saturday night.


 

 Try Titanfall2 while the beta lasts.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Try Titanfall2 while the beta lasts.




I did. Not too impressed.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I did. Not too impressed.


 

 At least it's responsive. Everytime I want to go back to playing BF4 I see the slugginess of the controls and I put it back.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> At least it's responsive. Everytime I want to go back to playing BF4 I see the slugginess of the controls and I put it back.




Haha different strokes. I like the slow pace of BF. Absolutely hate twitch shooters.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Haha different strokes. I like the slow pace of BF. Absolutely hate twitch shooters.


 

 Not a fan of twitch shooters either but I can't stand high input lag, it ruins FPS games. If it wasn't for the unresponsiveness I'd probably still be playing Killzone Shadowfall.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Not a fan of twitch shooters either but I can't stand high input lag, it ruins FPS games. If it wasn't for the unresponsiveness I'd probably still be playing Killzone Shadowfall.


 

 Depending on how you think about it, a slight amount of input lag can simulate the body of your character having weight and momentum. I'm not for a second suggesting developers should deliberately add input lag to games. It's just putting a positive spin on a less than ideal situation (which is an odd thing for me to say as I'm by no means an optimist). I guess it's just my roundabout way of defending Battlefield lol.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> Depending on how you think about it, a slight amount of input lag can simulate the body of your character having weight and momentum. I'm not for a second suggesting developers should deliberately add input lag to games. It's just putting a positive spin on a less than ideal situation (which is an odd thing for me to say as I'm by no means an optimist). I guess it's just my roundabout way of defending Battlefield lol.


 

 IIRC Killzone devs added input lag to their game for this exact reason. Which is a shame because aside from that, Killzone Shadowfall was an amazing online FPS.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> IIRC Killzone devs added input lag to their game for this exact reason. Which is a shame because aside from that, Killzone Shadowfall was an amazing online FPS.


 

 I thought it was a pretty solid game. I liked that you could do bot matches. It allowed me to familiarise myself with the maps and game modes as opposed to jumping in and getting owned because I'm panicking and running around without a clue where I'm going or what I'm supposed to be doing. Plus, if I did badly, I could always just take out my frustrations on the bots. I guess my biggest issue was with the amount of chokepoints that resulted in both teams standing on either side of a doorway popping off shots at eachother while trying to revive the big pile of downed friendlies in the doorway.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> I thought it was a pretty solid game. I liked that you could do bot matches. It allowed me to familiarise myself with the maps and game modes as opposed to jumping in and getting owned because I'm panicking and running around without a clue where I'm going or what I'm supposed to be doing. Plus, if I did badly, I could always just take out my frustrations on the bots. I guess my biggest issue was with the amount of chokepoints that resulted in both teams standing on either side of a doorway popping off shots at eachother while trying to revive the big pile of downed friendlies in the doorway.


 

 And it was pretty well balanced (except the flying bot ******** thing). Seriously, a lot of AAA shooters could learn a lot from guys who made this game. The weapons, the maps, the gamemodes. Top notch


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I'm streaming some Until Dawn on my Twitch. If you are bored join me up. I have no real life so, yeah, this is the highlight of my Saturday night.



A very entertaining, cinematic game! Played through it with 5 friends in the dark... Dunno how we managed to save everyone's life, haha!




yethal said:


> And it was pretty well balanced (except the flying bot ******** thing). Seriously, a lot of AAA shooters could learn a lot from guys who made this game. The weapons, the maps, the gamemodes. Top notch



And it's like $10 now, right?
Haven't played it myself.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> A very entertaining, cinematic game! Played through it with 5 friends in the dark... Dunno how we managed to save everyone's life, haha!
> And it's like $10 now, right?
> Haven't played it myself.



There are still people playing it so give it a try. Aside from the lag its fun.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> A very entertaining, cinematic game! Played through it with 5 friends in the dark... Dunno how we managed to save everyone's life, haha!
> And it's like $10 now, right?
> Haven't played it myself.




I think I'm halfway through and already half my people are in deep schiit haha.



yethal said:


> There are still people playing it so give it a try. Aside from the lag its fun.




I'll just wait for the next one. I'm sure after they finish Horizon they'll do another KZ.


----------



## Vader2k

So, I just want to say that despite some of the shortcomings with the 2011 Astro Mixamp, I gotta give it props for build quality.  I've had mine since early 2010 and despite the age and regular use, the thing continues to work as intended each time I hook it up.  I upgraded to a Marantz receiver three years ago for all non-chat gaming and movie watching, but the original unit I got had some hardware failure issues on it, which have now recently showed up on the replacement unit I received two years ago.  I'm thankful that I have the Mixamp to fall back on and am rather impressed that this small box is outperforming my AVR.


----------



## Yethal

vader2k said:


> So, I just want to say that despite some of the shortcomings with the 2011 Astro Mixamp, I gotta give it props for build quality.  I've had mine since early 2010 and despite the age and regular use, the thing continues to work as intended each time I hook it up.  I upgraded to a Marantz receiver three years ago for all non-chat gaming and movie watching, but the original unit I got had some hardware failure issues on it, which have now recently showed up on the replacement unit I received two years ago.  I'm thankful that I have the Mixamp to fall back on and am rather impressed that this small box is outperforming my AVR.


 
 Can You post a picture of Your setup. I'm really curious how a big A/V receiver fits in a gaming setup.


----------



## Vader2k

yethal said:


> Can You post a picture of Your setup. I'm really curious how a big A/V receiver fits in a gaming setup.


 
  
 Yeah, I can do that.  We moved recently and things are still a bit disorganized, so it'll look more cluttered than intended.  But, it's basically a typical living room setup with gaming consoles rather than a setup at a desk.  I've got the TV in the center and an AV cabinet off to the right holding all my consoles.  Everything hooks up to the AVR via HDMI.  Then I hook my Magni 2U up to the headphone jack on the AVR (since the output impedance on the receiver is too high) and turn the volume on the Magni to around 11 o'clock.  I then adjust the volume on the AVR using the remote while seated on the couch.  For me, I'm fine with longer headphone cables so I can leave the Magni near the receiver.  I used to be able to just barely reach the couch with the TH-X00, but in our new place, the distance is longer, so I need to bring the Magni 2U out a couple feet.
  
 I've never really been a PC gamer, but a coworker will be giving me an older (but still capable) desktop soon, so I plan to hook that to the AVR as well and use my PS4 controller on steam games.  Should be exciting!


----------



## Evshrug

My ps4 controller started lagging my games after 45 minutes, at least while playing Devil May Cry (reboot). Issue immediately went away when I unplugged the controller without changing anything else. The game would eventually freeze completely and I would have to force quit the game, and it still wouldn't start right until I removed the controller. Also annoying that Windows numbered the buttons instead of any attempt at referencing triggers or Dpad etc. Somehow I got it to behave before the last 3rd of the game, don't remember what helped (reinstalling the game didn't help the first two tries, maybe I just started using a 360 controller?) but eventually I beat the game. I think the issue happened with another game too, but I got so annoyed that I had to work at it just to get the game running that I've been reluctant to play more PC.

Not sure what's hard to imagine about an AVR gaming setup... It's a living room setup, and usually you give up on chat.


----------



## Yethal

I thought he keeps the avr on his desk and was wondering how does it fit there.


----------



## Vader2k

Yikes, crazy to hear about the problems you had with the PS4 controller on PC Evs.  I'll keep it in mind.
  
 Here's the pics I took last night (sorry for the quality).  The first three show how I normally do non-chat gaming and movie watching.  However, since the left channel has gone out on the AVR, I've had to resort to using the optical passthrough to the mixamp, as seen in the fourth photo.
  
 And I don't actually have to give up on chat, as when I use the Mixamp for chat-gaming, I just slide the blue box it's on closer to the couch and I can still access the dials; I bought long USB and optical cables a long time ago to rectify that.


----------



## Yethal

vader2k said:


> Yikes, crazy to hear about the problems you had with the PS4 controller on PC Evs.  I'll keep it in mind.
> 
> Here's the pics I took last night (sorry for the quality).  The first three show how I normally do non-chat gaming and movie watching.  However, since the left channel has gone out on the AVR, I've had to resort to using the optical passthrough to the mixamp, as seen in the fourth photo.
> 
> And I don't actually have to give up on chat, as when I use the Mixamp for chat-gaming, I just slide the blue box it's on closer to the couch and I can still access the dials; I bought long USB and optical cables a long time ago to rectify that.


 
 Kinda disappointed to see a rather tidy room where people actually live. Dunno why but I expected some kind of underground man-cave.
  
  


evshrug said:


> My ps4 controller started lagging my games after 45 minutes, at least while playing Devil May Cry (reboot). Issue immediately went away when I unplugged the controller without changing anything else. The game would eventually freeze completely and I would have to force quit the game, and it still wouldn't start right until I removed the controller. Also annoying that Windows numbered the buttons instead of any attempt at referencing triggers or Dpad etc. Somehow I got it to behave before the last 3rd of the game, don't remember what helped (reinstalling the game didn't help the first two tries, maybe I just started using a 360 controller?) but eventually I beat the game. I think the issue happened with another game too, but I got so annoyed that I had to work at it just to get the game running that I've been reluctant to play more PC.
> 
> Not sure what's hard to imagine about an AVR gaming setup... It's a living room setup, and usually you give up on chat.


 
 I like checking out other people's setups. Gives me ideas how to improve mine.
  
 Do You use a DirectInput to Xinput wrapper for the DualShock4? Software such as DS4Tool or MotionInJoy should resolve the controller problems you've been having.


----------



## Vader2k

yethal said:


> Kinda disappointed to see a rather tidy room where people actually live. Dunno why but I expected some kind of underground man-cave.
> 
> 
> I'm like checking out other people's setups. Gives me ideas how to improve mine.
> ...


 
  
 If only I had the space...


----------



## Yethal

vader2k said:


> If only I had the space...


 

 The closet can always be adapted.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Kinda disappointed to see a rather tidy room where people actually live. Dunno why but I expected some kind of underground man-cave.


 
 Mine is a far from tidy. That's the reason I'm likely never going to post pics of my setup.


----------



## lenroot77

Tidy is how a space/man cave should be! Mine is coming along well!


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> Mine is a far from tidy. That's the reason I'm likely never going to post pics of my setup.


 

 Mine used to be really messy. One day I was moving furniture around and decided that since I'm already doing that I might as well clean up so I installed cable baskets under my desk, and recently I put the TV on the wall above my desk to reclaim some space from the desk. Not only it's cleaner, but I started feeling better when I'm at my desk. The cables, and the power outlets and lack of space stopped annoying me. I highly recommend tidying up.


lenroot77 said:


> Tidy is how a space/man cave should be! Mine is coming along well!


 

 Batman's hideout is a point of reference here.


----------



## lenroot77

My lazy boy is parked in front of this setup. Id like a larger TV but the picture is great on my KDL32W650 and I'm sitting less than 4 feet from it. I've also added the "bias lighting" behind it. I just have a Ps4 and HTPC going these days.

I also have a retina scan on the door to keep children and wife out of my room! Haha


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Mine used to be really messy. One day I was moving furniture around and decided that since I'm already doing that I might as well clean up so I installed cable baskets under my desk, and recently I put the TV on the wall above my desk to reclaim some space from the desk. Not only it's cleaner, but I started feeling better when I'm at my desk. The cables, and the power outlets and lack of space stopped annoying me. I highly recommend tidying up.
> 
> Batman's hideout is a point of reference here.


 

 The problem is, if I tidy up my desk, I'll then have to tidy up my entire room which is a task I'm not up to at this point in time.
  
 As far as Batman goes, in fairness, he does have a butler.


----------



## NamelessPFG

change is good said:


> Haha different strokes. I like the slow pace of BF. Absolutely hate twitch shooters.


 
  
 Well, a lot of FPSs boil down to sheer twitch during certain engagements, even slower ones like Battlefield and Counter-Strike. Sometimes that's the only thing that'll save you when you're horribly outnumbered and outgunned in a bad spot, though those are the sorta titles where you want to avoid that to begin with and think more tactically, more about clearing, covering and controlling spaces.

 That said, if someone was to use the phrase "twitch shooter", I'm immediately thinking of the golden age of arena FPSs. Unreal Tournament, Quake III Arena/Quake Live, Tribes (okay, that's not really an arena FPS per se), Reflex (a spiritual successor to Q3A and CPMA), that sorta thing. High speeds, trickjumping and skiing all over the place, controlling map pickups, insane flick shots with hitscan weapons and rockets...

 It's the sort of thing I admittedly miss nowadays, though I understand why it's a niche among the genre today.
  
 Anyway, we got the Battlefield 1 open beta coming up soon. Anyone else gonna get in on that while it's live?


----------



## Yethal

I'll pass on the BF1. This isn't WW1 shooter. It's bf4 with bf1 skins. They took so much liberty with the source material that it's not even funny.


----------



## NamelessPFG

yethal said:


> I'll pass on the BF1. This isn't WW1 shooter. It's bf4 with bf1 skins. They took so much liberty with the source material that it's not even funny.


 
  
 I figure that if you wanted authenticity in the first place, you'd go for Verdun instead. That game supposedly does for WWI what Red Orchestra and WWII Online did for WWII, and what OFP/ArmA, Project Reality, Squad, etc. do for the modern day - brutal, unflinching realism.
  
 I'll at least give BF1 a chance for the open beta, though there's no way I'm paying release prices for it, especially knowing EA's penchant for Premium practically doubling the price and how BF4 was such a buggy mess on release that people went back to playing BF3 instead for a while.


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> I figure that if you wanted authenticity in the first place, you'd go for Verdun instead. That game supposedly does for WWI what Red Orchestra and WWII Online did for WWII, and what OFP/ArmA, Project Reality, Squad, etc. do for the modern day - brutal, unflinching realism.
> 
> I'll at least give BF1 a chance for the open beta, though there's no way I'm paying release prices for it, especially knowing EA's penchant for Premium practically doubling the price and how BF4 was such a buggy mess on release that people went back to playing BF3 instead for a while.




I like you lol

I play Verdun once a week or so and jave fun with it. Same with Red Orchestra/Rising Storm...Being a german with an MG42 is so much fun when trying to hold off an offensive attack is soo much fun. Ill have to post my video about that once I get back to LA from vacation.

As for BF1, yeah it's a reskinned BF4 but its done so well and looks like fun that I really can't complain. At least it isnt hardline lol.

I got the 1 day early access to BF1 but Im in Mexico right now so I wont jump on it until I get back this Saturday. I dont think BF1 is going to be a big mess like BF4 was. Im quite positive that it will turn out to be alright on release day. Battlefront actually did well on day 1 although that game is also a bit eh right now. Its fun for a bit but then it becomes eh lol.

I am in a sense a BF fan but I knew ever since BF1942 that the battlefield series was mever really meant to be a game based on authencity. COD was a game basd on that but now it isnt anymore and look how many kids play it lol.

Idk why but I almost want to say that the people who dislike BF games probably get owned in these games therefore not really giving BF games a chance. I mean, There is more to it when it comes to disliking BF games but getting owned in a game kind of is part of the decision some gamers dislike BF games.

Dont lie, its the truth, I disliked some games I wasnt good at in the beginning lol.

Anyways, I found this article from PC Gamer and wondered what you guys think about?

http://www.pcgamer.com/best-high-end-headphones/?utm_content=buffer5d503&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

Just a heads up....biased lol


----------



## Change is Good

BF1 is alright, but I'm not that impressed. I will admit it's better than Hardline and Battlefront. As long as they have enough vehicle combat on all maps I'm good. This gen BF4 is still king, though...


----------



## Yethal

I dislike the bf1 for stretching the ww1 realia as far as they possibly could in order to keep the gameplay from bf4. These automatic weapons were prototypes that never swa combat. Same thing with most of the tanks, sights, even ******* suppressors made it into the game.


----------



## nicobombai

Played the game last night, 
 It's more or less the same with bf4-bf3-battlefront. I like the game and setting but the game just feels like a run and gun bf4 in a different setting imo. I was hoping for some trench warfare but this is all in 1 map and open beta so i cant say much yet.
 Never the less i like the game and might buy it later on.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I dislike the bf1 for stretching the ww1 realia as far as they possibly could in order to keep the gameplay from bf4. These automatic weapons were prototypes that never swa combat. Same thing with most of the tanks, sights, even ******* suppressors made it into the game.




I get what you're saying. It feels more like a WW2 shooter than WW1.


----------



## Vader2k

lenroot77 said:


> My lazy boy is parked in front of this setup. Id like a larger TV but the picture is great on my KDL32W650 and I'm sitting less than 4 feet from it. I've also added the "bias lighting" behind it. I just have a Ps4 and HTPC going these days.
> 
> I also have a retina scan on the door to keep children and wife out of my room! Haha


 
  
 Nice setup, efficient use of space!  I'm considering doing bias lighting one of these days; it adds a neat effect.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I dislike the bf1 for stretching the ww1 realia as far as they possibly could in order to keep the gameplay from bf4. These automatic weapons were prototypes that never swa combat. Same thing with most of the tanks, sights, even ******* suppressors made it into the game.




Actually I would have to agree with that.

But at this point in the gaming industry, you shouldn't take these games or expect them to be based on "realism" or "authencity".

Look at COD...it has authencity with its WW2 games, which I still own and are awesome but COD now is completely different...and if you like COD, then you should kind of understand where BF1 is at.

But lets be honest....during WW1,there really wasnt much variety in weaponry....

WW2 did and even more so during Vietnam.

Oh oh, who is getting Rising Storm 2: Vietnam? I know I am lol


----------



## alitomr

hELLO ALL,
  
 I've read the guide and I am looking for a dedicated pair of headphones and possibly a dolby headphone device to get an edge in my FPS gaming. I understand the AD700x is the best possible value, and can also see that the HD598 is rated amazing.
  
 How does the old HD595, which i own, compare to the HD598 for gaming??  I ask this because I own the HD595 and really like it, and for positional awareness I think it has a little edge above the HD600, my main cans, but the advantage is not huge to my ears. Sho
  
 What route would you take? Should I stick with the hd595 and get the mixamp TR or could I get a signnificant upgrade getting the AD700x and the mixamp??
  
 How much of the "god-mode" attributed to the AKG K701 and the AD700x is from the headphones and how much is from the dolby headphone tech??  Could I get the god-mode with the k701 alone or should i definitely get the dolby headphone device?
  
 Thank you!!


----------



## Yethal

alitomr said:


> hELLO ALL,
> 
> I've read the guide and I am looking for a dedicated pair of headphones and possibly a dolby headphone device to get an edge in my FPS gaming. I understand the AD700x is the best possible value, and can also see that the HD598 is rated amazing.
> 
> ...


 

 Stick with 595. I used to own the 598 and for competitive gaming it was doing just fine.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Actually I would have to agree with that.
> 
> But at this point in the gaming industry, you shouldn't take these games or expect them to be based on "realism" or "authencity".
> 
> ...


 

 I know that modern fps take some liberty with authenticity. But BF1 went too far. They twisted the WW1 into something that's akin to a steampunk/alternate history version of it. Everything they could to keep the gameplay from changing too much.


----------



## alitomr

yethal said:


> Stick with 595. I used to own the 598 and for competitive gaming it was doing just fine.


 
 Thank you for your opinion. Have you tried the k701 or the AD700x??


----------



## Yethal

alitomr said:


> Thank you for your opinion. Have you tried the k701 or the AD700x??


 

 I did try the original AD700, but not the AKGs.


----------



## alitomr

yethal said:


> I did try the original AD700, but not the AKGs.


 
 And you didnt notice a significant improvement in soundstage and positional awareness in it coming from the hd595??  What about the dolby headphone/astro mixamp??


----------



## Yethal

alitomr said:


> And you didnt notice a significant improvement in soundstage and positional awareness in it coming from the hd595??  What about the dolby headphone/astro mixamp??


 
 Lol, no idea I tried them out with music. They really have thin bass but the soundstage was there.


----------



## jandrogo

I have a mixamp pro 2013, and I have set my eyes in a Fostex HPA4 amp/dac because I want to upgrade my setup in sound quality even loosing surround sound.

Question is, how to keep the voice chat with the devices I have: AKG K612pro, 3.5 jack mic, mixamp pro and the future hpa4.


----------



## kellte2

jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp pro 2013, and I have set my eyes in a Fostex HPA4 amp/dac because I want to upgrade my setup in sound quality even loosing surround sound.
> 
> Question is, how to keep the voice chat with the devices I have: AKG K612pro, 3.5 jack mic, mixamp pro and the future hpa4.




Why not the creative x7?


----------



## alitomr

jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp pro 2013, and I have set my eyes in a Fostex HPA4 amp/dac because I want to upgrade my setup in sound quality even loosing surround sound.
> 
> Question is, how to keep the voice chat with the devices I have: AKG K612pro, 3.5 jack mic, mixamp pro and the future hpa4.


 
  
 You would need to double-amp, which Ive read is not so bad when amping the mixamp signal. Use the mix amp to control party/game mix, and your preferred amp to amplify the signal. Thing is, that way your new dac wont be converting, and I dont know if that is how you intend to get the improvement in audio quality. If that is the case, what I have done is get two cheap behringer  mixers, one with USB and one without (they can be both with usb) and use the USB of the mixer as the PS4's input device. Then use the optical output of the PS4 to your preferred DAC with toslink inputs. FRom there (your DAC), connect the outputs to the second mixer, to one of the adjustable inputs (usually NOT tape in), for which you are going to need RCA to 1/4"adapters. Then you connect the USB mixer's main output to the second mixer's inputs. At that point tou can lower or higher party of game audio inputs before sending the final mix to the second mixer main outputs. FRom there you connect to your preferred headphone amp and you are set. 
  
 As you can see. to get the best from both a better DAC and better amp and retain the chat/game mixing capabilities require that you get a separate amp and dac, not a combo. The same applies for PC, I understand. I have not tried it with PC, but i guided a friend through it. 
  
 I hope this helps.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Kinda disappointed to see a rather tidy room where people actually live. Dunno why but I expected some kind of underground man-cave.
> 
> 
> I like checking out other people's setups. Gives me ideas how to improve mine.
> ...




RE: wrapper for the DS4... Didn't know such a thing existed! Thanks! Hopefully I'll remember to look for it next time I PC game.

RE: other people's setups... Wasn't trying to shut you down for wondering what his setup looked like! Just saying, from a cabling and signal chain point of view, I was fully confident you could mentally picture the layout. Seeing the room and desk, from an aesthetic point of view, that's totally different and I like seeing those too!




napalmhardcore said:


> Mine is a far from tidy. That's the reason I'm likely never going to post pics of my setup.







lenroot77 said:


> Tidy is how a space/man cave should be! Mine is coming along well!




Mine is not on the tidy side of the spectrum. Got a lot of stuff and redundancies, I tend to tuck things away three times a year but pull almost all of it out when testing out something new! Kind of ironic if you know me and that the spider web of connections required for a full Mixamp setup (especially on an XBox) annoys me... But in a simple manner, I like my wireless controller free and unwired, and on a more meta-level I like eliminating a cable here and there for the same reason a backpacking hiker has to carry a lot of gear but obsessively seeks to cut pounds and ounces in each piece of gear.

But yeah, my setup starts clean, and gets messy for reviews. Pic from me testing the Creative E3:


Current state as I walk in to the room today:



Sure, most people will look at that and shriek "What a mess!" But I look at it, and see Christmas morning 
Here's a pic from when I cleared the desk (mostly) for a video I'm making:


Living room:





jandrogo said:


> I have a mixamp pro 2013, and I have set my eyes in a Fostex HPA4 amp/dac because I want to upgrade my setup in sound quality even loosing surround sound.
> 
> Question is, how to keep the voice chat with the devices I have: AKG K612pro, 3.5 jack mic, mixamp pro and the future hpa4.




Well, I'm a big fan of the X7 and the HP-A4 is pretty similar sounding unit (*maybe* the Fostex has a smidge more refined implementation, but they use similar DAC and primary amp chips), but the HP-A4 is lower cost since it drops the DSP, Bluetooth, and speaker amp. I've actually been wondering what to do with my HP-A4 because after brief testing it's been living in it's shipping box. Shoot me a PM if you want to make a (PayPal) purchase offer.


----------



## Evshrug

alitomr said:


> You would need to double-amp, which Ive read is not so bad when amping the mixamp signal.
> ...



While I agree that double amping isn't so bad and you made some great wiring setup suggestions, I think jandrogo was specifically saying he would give up surround sound and just use the Fostex. In that case, he could just plug the HP-A4 straight into the PS4's USB port, or set the PS4 to output stereo through optical and connect that to the HP-A4.

Connecting a mic would still be a separate deal (I'd still recommend a USB mic for ease of setup).


----------



## alitomr

evshrug said:


> While I agree that double amping isn't so bad and you made some great wiring setup suggestions, I think jandrogo was specifically saying he would give up surround sound and just use the Fostex. In that case, he could just plug the HP-A4 straight into the PS4's USB port, or set the PS4 to output stereo through optical and connect that to the HP-A4.
> 
> Connecting a mic would still be a separate deal (I'd still recommend a USB mic for ease of setup).


 
 Yeah, you are right, but when he said he wanted to keep voice chat function I thought he meant the ability to mix both streams of audio. If you dont do that, you will find, and this has been my experience, that the improvement in audio quality vanishes when you have loud friends shouting in the party. It simply comes out too strong and even overpower the game, no matter how much you prioritize the game audio with the slider inside the party settings. The ability to lower or higher party or game volume independently (mixing) is vital. As much as Ilove and appreciate the improvements Ive got from going from th Sony Gold Wireless headset to my HD600 powered from my valhalla 2 which is fed by the modi 2 uber, I  used go back to the sony's just because I can lower the volume of my extremely noisy friends/crew in CoD BOIII and that, sadly i have to say, makes for a better overall experience that the improved audio quality. That is why I went with the kind of complex wiring I described...and now I want to add a dolby headphone DAC...
  
 Just sharing my experience hoping that it helps somebody.


----------



## octiceps

Sounds like BF1 has top-notch production values like every other DICE game, so I expect sound quality to be great.



rudyae86 said:


> Oh oh, who is getting Rising Storm 2: Vietnam? I know I am lol




I am, if only because AMG confirmed the ability to disable free aim in ADS. I have decent aim but couldn't hit anything in RS/RO2 because it felt like a ******* Wii game. RO2/RS is still one of my favorite MP FPS games though.


----------



## Change is Good

On the PS4 I'm getting some distortion and white noise sometimes. I tried tweaking the sound settings and was surprised to find the default to be 'logitech headset.' I switched between 'home cinema' and 'hi-fi,' but no fix.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> RE: wrapper for the DS4... Didn't know such a thing existed! Thanks! Hopefully I'll remember to look for it next time I PC game.
> 
> RE: other people's setups... Wasn't trying to shut you down for wondering what his setup looked like! Just saying, from a cabling and signal chain point of view, I was fully confident you could mentally picture the layout. Seeing the room and desk, from an aesthetic point of view, that's totally different and I like seeing those too!
> 
> ...



Ceci n'est pas une setup


My setup is tidy and clean now. Putting the tv on the wall freed up a lot of space from the desk.

I've moved the X7 between the right speaker and the monitor since the picture was taken byt that's pretty much what it looks like.


----------



## shuto77

I sold my X7, now I have no way to connect my headphones to my PS4, for those rare occasions I get to play. 

What's the next-best solution? I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with the Sound Blaster E5. 

Also, I still have that AKG Q701, if anyone has something that I can connect to my PS4.

I don't think I'll be pleased with the SQ if I go back to a Mixamp. At this point, I'm guessing that I'm better off going with a standard 2-channel dac until I have the funds to get a proper setup. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> I sold my X7, now I have no way to connect my headphones to my PS4, for those rare occasions I get to play.
> 
> What's the next-best solution? I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with the Sound Blaster E5.
> 
> ...



Sell a kidney and buy the Realizer A16.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Ceci n'est pas une setup
> 
> 
> My setup is tidy and clean now. Putting the tv on the wall freed up a lot of space from the desk.
> ...



My monitor is mounted to a Monoprice swivel arm on the edge of my desk, so I can swing it back or to the side to get it out of the way. My desk feels huge when I clear off all the temporary stuff... And it just feels like a shame not to have something I'm into already ready to go!




shuto77 said:


> I sold my X7, now I have no way to connect my headphones to my PS4, for those rare occasions I get to play.
> 
> What's the next-best solution? I'm afraid I'm going to be stuck with the Sound Blaster E5.
> 
> ...



I thought you bought an X7 back? I guess I mixed you up with Lenroot. Do you already have an E5? That's still a stereo solution for consoles, but at least that does give you a mic and (if you use both USB and optical) mixer controls.

I still think the used Turtle Beach DSS series is the best sounding low-cost DSP, technically lower background hiss than the Mixamp and Recon3D, with a better amp than those and better suited for double amping too. If you just want stereo, then almost any optical or USB DAC will do.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> My monitor is mounted to a Monoprice swivel arm on the edge of my desk, so I can swing it back or to the side to get it out of the way. My desk feels huge when I clear off all the temporary stuff... And it just feels like a shame not to have something I'm into already ready to go!
> I thought you bought an X7 back? I guess I mixed you up with Lenroot. Do you already have an E5? That's still a stereo solution for consoles, but at least that does give you a mic and (if you use both USB and optical) mixer controls.
> 
> I still think the used Turtle Beach DSS series is the best sounding low-cost DSP, technically lower background hiss than the Mixamp and Recon3D, with a better amp than those and better suited for double amping too. If you just want stereo, then almost any optical or USB DAC will do.




I sold mine to @lenroot, lol. 


For the PS4, should I go with a DSS1 or 2?

Thanks!


----------



## Evshrug

Honestly, I had a DSS, liked it, I don't have it anymore (gift) but I'm fairly impressed with the DSS2 (that "not having 7.1 surround" is a bunch of hooey) and you can't really go wrong with either now that they cost about the same.


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> I sold mine to @lenroot, lol.
> 
> 
> For the PS4, should I go with a DSS1 or 2?
> ...




You didn't like the G5?


----------



## lenroot77

Just finished making my boom pro adapter and.......IT WORKS!


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> You didn't like the G5?




I didn't like that it didn't have a battery, and sold it. In hindsight, I probably should have just gotten an E5 for the interim. I only used it with the Meze 99 Classics, which I found uncomfortable and didn't get a ton of time with, so I can't really assess how much I liked the G5'S sound. 

I was cutting down my gear to save for a down payment on my house. I'm moving in November, so hopefully something cool and unexpected will arrive by then. If not, I'll just buy an X7 again, and hook it up to a high-end amp. 

Update: I picked up a Dss2 and a Fiio E12. We'll see how that combo works out. Picked up both for less than $130, and the Fiio is a good portable amp, so we'll see.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Just finished making my boom pro adapter and.......IT WORKS!



Just wondering, would it be possible to replace the mini xlr in the headphones with a minijack and plug the boompro straight into that?

Also, start selling those.


----------



## dukefx

lenroot77 said:


> Just finished making my boom pro adapter and.......IT WORKS!


 
  
 Nicely done, looks even better than the ones I saw. I'm still waiting for mine. They said they are getting mini XLR plugs this week so I gotta be patient.


----------



## Evshrug

This just arrived from the UK, and kinda make me wish I still had the K712


Instant triggers (feel nicer than trigger stops), rear "fins" to replicate face buttons, Xbox One style thumbsticks, and overall just an awesome look.
 
 ​

-----

My old K712

​


----------



## cefx

I've got a Dragonfly Black now.
  
 What, from these picks, do you guys recommend? [I do gaming the most, but I love me some metal/rock, huge fan of house music, and watch a lot of movies]
  
 HE400S, AudioQuest NightHawk, Oppo PM-3[think I want these], HD598, Grado SR325SE or Grado Ps500E?
  
 Leaning towards the Oppo PM-3 or HE400s, but worried about noise pollution from the HE400s [how much does the outside influence it, and howmuch does it leak sound into the room?]


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Not really related to any conversation currently going or even gaming but I got to try a pair of EAH-T700s today at work. By far the most expensive set of headphones I've ever tried. The only problem is that I wasn't using them with my equipment, my music and couldn't A-B them with my own headphones, so I really don't know how to judge what I heard. They delivered sound in a different way to what I'm used to. The best way I can describe it is that it felt like there was space between my ears and the music (I guess more like listening to speakers but not really) whereas with my own headphones it sounds like the sound starts in your head and goes outward more or less dependant on whether I'm using my Cloud 2s (closed back) or K240 Mkiis (semi open).


----------



## Yethal

New releases from Sennheiser:
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/818931/sennheiser-debuts-a-bunch-of-new-headphones-at-ifa#post_12832668


 I had such a great time with my 598, wonder how big of an improvement these will be.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> New releases from Sennheiser:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/818931/sennheiser-debuts-a-bunch-of-new-headphones-at-ifa#post_12832668
> 
> 
> ...




569 is closed back... Very interesting!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Y'all need some cable management.  Buy a signum rack from Ikea or something!





It's a 74" (6 feet plus) counter top from Ikea with two Kallax bookshelf unit as its legs. Trust me when I say that counter top is a robust monster. It was on clearance at Ikea, and it cost me just $20!. The Linnmon table tops are like $60 and incredibly cheap feeling. I scored big)

First one is when I temporarily had a Sony 43X830c (43" 4kTV). I got the TV because it's the ONLY 4K TV of this size sold today that has a native 120hz screen, that also accepts a true 1080p/120hz PC signal that also has backlight strobing tech for perfect motion blur without the additional input lag on motion interpolation. Unfortunately, the blacks were absolute garbage, and had some severe flashlighting in the corners. So I returned it, in hopes of waiting for a good 34" ultrawide 3440x1440 screen with at LEAST 120hz (hopefully for ULMB). The ones sold right now are 100hz max with no ULMB. So I been stuck with my Alienware laptop as my monitor.  I have so much real estate, and all that is on the table is just the laptop, a lamp (temporarily), and a Tifa statue. The PS4, X7, headphones are all underneath on the left Kallax unit. Also wanna buy a decent area rug. I hate the feeling of tile. But man, rugs are expensive. I need at least a 7 x7, (ideally an 8x10) but they are like $150+.

Once I get my monitor, I'll buy some good desktop speakers to hook up to the X7.

The window is all jacked up because I haven't bought proper curtains yet, and trying to block out as much light as possible.


----------



## Yethal

Why do You keep the monitor on the desk instead of mounting it on the wall?
  
 As for the speakers, try the E-MU ones, Creative has them on sale pretty much always.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> Why do You keep the monitor on the desk instead of mounting it on the wall?
> 
> As for the speakers, try the E-MU ones, Creative has them on sale pretty much always.




That's a TV not a monitor.

Impossible to wall mount, unless I wanna view the monitor off center. There is a huge window that ends basically right smack in the middle of the desk. I'd have to use a desk monitor mount, and I'm unsure there's ones that mount 43" tvs. In either case, that Tv was with me for 2 days (hence why the light's cable isn't even plugged in on that image, and I threw the PS4 and X7 on the side, which is not where it's at now... I had JUST set that desk up), so... yeah, mounting was far from a thought at that point. But yes, had I kept the TV I would've definitely looked into a mounting solution, since it was too big at the seating distance (I had to sit as far back as possible at the foot of my bed). For a 34" or less monitor, I don't need to mount, since I have a ridiculous amount of desk space, and mounting it would be a waste of screen to size viewing ratio, effectively making it look about the size of a 27" that's sitting on the desk.

I was really hoping for OLED monitors to be out by the end of the year, but looks like we are still a year off. No way I'd get the $5000 Dell OLED monitor. Lol. If a good 3440x1440 display shows up at 120hz, I'd go for it as long as it's VA, not TN/IPS. Gsync of course. If there's a decent OLED out, I'd even skip Gsync. The quality of OLED is too good even without adaptive sync.

Keep in mind, the setup is nowhere near done, in fact it's basically in its infancy. I'm waiting to build a PC or get a monitor FIRST before I start properly setting it up.


----------



## cefx

Holy ****. I went with the HE400S and Dragonfly Black. I know the Black isn't the best Dac/amp, and i'll upgrade somewhere in the future but....
  
  
 Holy. ****. Coming from the older G4me Zeros by Sennheiser and onboard audio. [My DT880s and Teac are in Toronto] for the past few months this is like a welcome, welcome change.  Thanks for all the information, reviews and help, head-fi!


----------



## Evshrug

Cefx,
Out of all the ones you mentioned, the HE400s leaks the most (but not noticeable if someone's not in the same room), and yet that would be the one I'd recommend based on the house music and other genres you listed.

I like the Oppo, it's very balanced and detailed (slightly moreso than the K712 I loved, without throwing the detail in your face!), but I think you'd want more bass than the PM-3 offers. The PM-3 has audible bass but the sub bass is light and there just isn't much power behind rumbling parts of music and games. The PM-3 is a great portable, but IMO not "all-rounder" enough to use as your primary audio driver.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I have a akg q701 modmic and a magni 2 Uber. For ps4 whats the best ones for surround sound? 
X7 is to expensive


----------



## dukefx

I never understood why people want virtual surround... erm I mean terrible, distorted sound or anything branded _Creative_ for that matter when good headphones are more than capable of pinpointing everything, but if you must have one then the Astro MixAmp is a popular choice and it's far cheaper than the X7


----------



## Darkangelpt

Im used to surround in call of Duty and battlefield. Helped a lot. 
So you say stereo is better? What are the stereo option? To use modmic as well


----------



## dukefx

I'd try something like this:
  

  
  
 It's a simple splitter. You have decent headphones and an amp. If you really feel the need for virtual surround you can still buy the MixAmp.


----------



## Change is Good

I don't know man. BF1 just seems way to casual for me. Pretty to look at, yeah, but the gameplay is so damn shallow it's not even funny. I knew things were going to be dicey (pun intended) when they mentioned implementing some Battlefront mechanics into this one. It just doesn't feel like a Battlefield game to me. It's like they are catering to the CoD cry babies who switched over since it went futuristic... not the og BF vets.

And if I hear one more person say "it's just the beta" I'm going to lose my schit. The release is only 6 weeks away. This is basically what we're getting folks. A watered down version of what Battlefield once was.

My new campaign...

* Make Battlefield great again*


----------



## Darkangelpt

It's a simple splitter. You have decent headphones and an amp. If you really feel the need for virtual surround you can still buy the MixAmp.
[/quote]

Connected to the controller? Is that it?
I use my xbox one elite controller in ps4. And audio jack dont work in ps4


----------



## AxelCloris

dukefx said:


> I never understood why people want virtual surround... erm I mean terrible, distorted sound or anything branded _Creative_ for that matter when good headphones are more than capable of pinpointing everything, but if you must have one then the Astro MixAmp is a popular choice and it's far cheaper than the X7


 
  
 This entire thread is dedicated to arguing in favor of virtual sound. I adore virtual surround for headphone gaming and that's with good headphones.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

dukefx said:


> I never understood why people want virtual surround... erm I mean terrible, distorted sound or anything branded _Creative_ for that matter when good headphones are more than capable of pinpointing everything, but if you must have one then the Astro MixAmp is a popular choice and it's far cheaper than the X7


 
  
  


darkangelpt said:


> Im used to surround in call of Duty and battlefield. Helped a lot.
> So you say stereo is better? What are the stereo option? To use modmic as well


 
  
  


axelcloris said:


> This entire thread is dedicated to arguing in favor of virtual sound. I adore virtual surround for headphone gaming and that's with good headphones.


 
 I remember when I started researching the topic I found a lot of posts from people that made the argument that you have two ears and that virtual surround was a gimmick. I then looked more in depth at the counter side of the argument and the science behind it. In the end I decided that ultimately I'd have to try it for myself to see what I think.
  
 I started out using the DSS2 which I seem to remember not being Dolby Headphone branded. I wanted to try out different technologies to see what I think so I then tried SBX Pro Studio when I got the Omni and then Dolby Headphone with the Mixamp.
  
 It has recently occured to me that I never really did any A-B testing between stereo and the virtual surround technologies. I think I may have to go ahead and give that a try.
  
 I think that if in doubt, people should try it for themselves and see if it works for them. Some people love it, others try it and decide it's not for them. I have come across some people that haven't tried it but preach that it's a gimmick anyway (because someone else said it). Those are the people that are probably best ignored. It is my opinion that one needs to at least try something before they are qualified to have an opinion on it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

darkangelpt said:


> It's a simple splitter. You have decent headphones and an amp. If you really feel the need for virtual surround you can still buy the MixAmp.


 
 Connected to the controller? Is that it?
 I use my xbox one elite controller in ps4. And audio jack dont work in ps4[/quote]

  
 Gaming console (PS4 or xBox) > Mix-amp > decent headphone amplifier > headphones (Q701).
  
 The Mix-amp will be connected to the gaming console's optical output port.
 Enable 5.1 and Dolby in the gaming console's audio settings.
 It's ok to daisy chain a headphone amplifier off the mix-amp's headphone output jack


----------



## Darkangelpt

I already have a mixamp tr for my xbox one. But now im going to play battlefield 1 in ps4. (xbox version só blurry.)
And stream as well. 
My xbox mixamp works in ps4 for sound but can use my modmic.


----------



## Yethal

dukefx said:


> I never understood why people want virtual surround


 

 Because we want more from our sound than regular hard-panned stereo provides. More realism, more immersion and more fun.
  
 No idea where where the distortion comes from, I've used several virtual surround technologies and I've never heard distortion caused by virtual surround processing. Unless by distortion You mean the reverb added by Dolby Headphone. Creative got a lot better over the last few years, as far as gaming-marketed products go they're top tier.
  
 See, the problem is headphones are only part of the equation. Quality of the signal passed to these headphones is another topic. Since games no longer offer built-in headphone surround (aside from Overwatch), we have to cheat and add it ourselves by using the 5.1/7.1 speaker signal and transforming it into a headphone signal using external devices such as the Mixamp.
 No matter how good Your headphones are, they will still offer terrible accuracy if the signal is regular hard-panned stereo.
  
 Lastly, comparing the Mixamp to the X7 is utterly pointless as these two devices are so different the only thing they have in common is that they can both generate virtual surround signal.
  
  


dukefx said:


> I never understood why people want virtual surround... erm I mean terrible, distorted sound or anything branded _Creative_ for that matter when good headphones are more than capable of pinpointing everything, but if you must have one then the Astro MixAmp is a popular choice and it's far cheaper than the X7


 
  
  


change is good said:


> I don't know man. BF1 just seems way to casual for me. Pretty to look at, yeah, but the gameplay is so damn shallow it's not even funny. I knew things were going to be dicey (pun intended) when they mentioned implementing some Battlefront mechanics into this one. It just doesn't feel like a Battlefield game to me. It's like they are catering to the CoD cry babies who switched over since it went futuristic... not the og BF vets.
> 
> And if I hear one more person say "it's just the beta" I'm going to lose my schit. The release is only 6 weeks away. This is basically what we're getting folks. A watered down version of what Battlefield once was.
> 
> ...


 

 I feel Your pain Change. Every round I played people either camped on top of the rocks or camped in tanks. Since nobody ever plays assault class (due to lack of camping utilities) the tanks are pretty much immortal. This is madness not Battlefield.


----------



## Darkangelpt

The X7 is really expensive and a lot of features I will not use. 
What about turtle beach tac? 
Creative g5 e5?


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> The X7 is really expensive and a lot of features I will not use.
> What about turtle beach tac?
> Creative g5 e5?


 

 X7 is the only Creative product that has Dolby Digital decoding which is essential for virtual surround on consoles. G5 and E5 will work in stereo mode only. Haven't used the TAC so I can't tell You whether it's good but it does work.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

darkangelpt said:


> The X7 is really expensive and a lot of features I will not use.
> What about turtle beach tac?
> Creative g5 e5?


 

 As Yethal said, the E5 and G5 won't do virtual surround on console if that's the way you're going.
  
 From the research I've done so far, opinions are divided on the TAC. The amp is supposedly less powerful and noisier than the Mixamp. As for virtual surround, most of the opinions have been in comparison to the Mixamp. Some people say the TAC sounds thin and digitalised while the Mixamp is more full and natural. Others say the Mixamp is boomy and muffled while the TAC is clear, crisp and enables you to locate where sounds are coming from better. As is so often the case with audio, it's subjective.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> As Yethal said, the E5 and G5 won't do virtual surround on console if that's the way you're going.
> 
> From the research I've done so far, opinions are divided on the TAC. The amp is supposedly less powerful and noisier than the Mixamp. As for virtual surround, most of the opinions have been in comparison to the Mixamp. Some people say the TAC sounds thin and digitalised while the Mixamp is more full and natural. Others say the Mixamp is boomy and muffled while the TAC is clear, crisp and enables you to locate where sounds are coming from better. As is so often the case with audio, it's subjective.


 
 Found the comparison video. TAC does sound noticeably worse.


----------



## dukefx

yethal said:


> Because we want more from our sound than regular hard-panned stereo provides. More realism, more immersion and more fun.
> 
> No idea where where the distortion comes from, I've used several virtual surround technologies and I've never heard distortion caused by virtual surround processing. Unless by distortion You mean the reverb added by Dolby Headphone. Creative got a lot better over the last few years, as far as gaming-marketed products go they're top tier.
> 
> ...


 
 I did my research quite a few times and I was utterly disappointed every single time. I tried Realtek, Razer, SBX Pro, CMSS 3D on my old X-Fi, 2 external soundcards (not mine and can't remember what they were).
 The one and only that helps distinguish front and back is the CMSS 3D. The tradeoff is an aluminium bucket over your head. So much for immersion. Realtek and Razer do pretty much nothing. Everything else just makes the sound muddy, doing the exact opposite of what they are supposed to do. Instead of getting additional information I'm losing it. Lets not mention how hard it is to configure software virtual surround. A lot of games use the channel Windows provides and you might end up hearing the front-left and front-right channel only when set to 7.1 or it gets downmixed to simple stereo.
  
 If I were blindfolded and was tasked to use my mouse and turn towards the exact position where the sound came from I could do it without any kind of virtual surround in most games. That's pretty much the end of the virtual surround discussion for me.
  
 The thing we should rather discuss is binaural audio. I would expect it from at least those companies who are planning to make their game an e-sport. If they can't properly code it, they can always license something like dearVR.
  
  
 @Darkangelpt I'm not an expert on consoles since I've always been a PC guy, but under normal circumstances there should be jack socket on a PS4 controller. I have no idea what options an XB controller has.


----------



## Yethal

dukefx said:


> I did my research quite a few times and I was utterly disappointed every single time. I tried Realtek, Razer, SBX Pro, CMSS 3D on my old X-Fi, 2 external soundcards (not mine and can't remember what they were).
> The one and only that helps distinguish front and back is the CMSS 3D. The tradeoff is an aluminium bucket over your head. So much for immersion. Realtek and Razer do pretty much nothing. Everything else just makes the sound muddy, doing the exact opposite of what they are supposed to do. Instead of getting additional information I'm losing it. Lets not mention how hard it is to configure software virtual surround. A lot of games use the channel Windows provides and you might end up hearing the front-left and front-right channel only when set to 7.1 or it gets downmixed to simple stereo.
> 
> If I were blindfolded and was tasked to use my mouse and turn towards the exact position where the sound came from I could do it without any kind of virtual surround in most games. That's pretty much the end of the virtual surround discussion for me.


 
 I think Your disappointment might stem from the fact that You chose the worst performing surround solutions (Razer Surround? Come on) and judged all the other solutions based on the performance of the bottom-tier products. If You really want to use software solutions (which is a bad idea anyway but to each his own) try Out Of Your Head. Or buy the 30$ Xonar DG and use Dolby Headphone.
  


dukefx said:


> The thing we should rather discuss is binaural audio. I would expect it from at least those companies who are planning to make their game an e-sport. If they can't properly code it, they can always license something like dearVR.


 
 In order to properly comment on that I will start with a picture.

 Binaural audio is exactly what we are discussing here. Two channel signal that provides 360 degree information to the player. This is exactly what we use and what we discuss. The difference is that the binaural audio we use is generated from the 5.1/7.1 speaker signal and not rendered by the audio engine itself due to the fact that
 a) No game aside from PC Overwatch and PS4 Thi4f supports this on software level
 b) Due to removal of Hardware Abstraction Layer in Windows Vista, games cannot access audio hardware directly.


----------



## dukefx

Xonar DG does exactly what the 2 external cards did. Same piece of hardware that comes with most "gaming" headsets. Something like the HyperX Cloud II. One of those may have been exactly that, but it was like 2 years ago and it wasn't my gear. I think I pretty much tried everything over the years. It was a very interesting topic for me, so I did a lot of research and testing. You already know the end result. As for binaural audio, the only one that comes anywhere near that is CMSS-3D, but it totally obliterates sound quality in the process. You can't just take sound and convert it. You have to produce it, i.e. the software's own engine has to do it. It's like saying here are 8 bows of spaghetti, now make 2 pizzas out of them. The base ingredients are similar, but converting one to the other will never be anywhere near perfect.
  
 You made me curious about Overwatch tho. I never played it, nor do I intend to, but I'm gonna look for some comparisons. Maybe it actually does proper binaural audio.


----------



## Yethal

dukefx said:


> Xonar DG does exactly what the 2 external cards did. Same piece of hardware that comes with most "gaming" headsets. Something like the HyperX Cloud II. One of those may have been exactly that, but it was like 2 years ago and it wasn't my gear. I think I pretty much tried everything over the years. It was a very interesting topic for me, so I did a lot of research and testing. You already know the end result. As for binaural audio, the only one that comes anywhere near that is CMSS-3D, but it totally obliterates sound quality in the process. You can't just take sound and convert it. You have to produce it, i.e. the software's own engine has to do it. It's like saying here are 8 bows of spaghetti, now make 2 pizzas out of them. The base ingredients are similar, but converting one to the other will never be anywhere near perfect.
> 
> You made me curious about Overwatch tho. I never played it, nor do I intend to, but I'm gonna look for some comparisons. Maybe it actually does proper binaural audio.


 

 Try this:
  
 https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/


----------



## dukefx

Gonna give it a try when I have the time


----------



## Tenzo

Has anyone tried the ADG1X? Thoughts? Reviews are few and far between on em.


----------



## Clean6eR

tenzo said:


> Has anyone tried the ADG1X? Thoughts? Reviews are few and far between on em.


 
 hi,
  
 i have the ath adg1 on my head as i type, i don't have or tried the ad700 which everyone says these are a form of, also i don't have the x version, i would assume the x version has the longer mic and mute switch not button like on mine.
  
 the mic on this is clear and decent. the sound is very clean and detailed, the sound stage is wide very wide, i like to compare it with my k701 and my hd800. all three have different sound scapes but all are very wide, the ath adg1 makes the k701 sound smooth in the treble as the adg1 is quite brash and i think some would say sibilant? it does make picking up on details seem forced which suite me when gaming A LOT.  i use this headset often as i find it a pretty competitive focused sound.
  
 id be interested if anyone has the ath adg1 and the ath adg1x to see what sound difference exists if any.
  
 i have a set of a900x LTD headphones too and they sound a lot less sibilant but equally don't sound as clean, they are smoother and im not sure if its because they are closed but the sound stage appears much wider on the ath adg1.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I don't know man. BF1 just seems way to casual for me. Pretty to look at, yeah, but the gameplay is so damn shallow it's not even funny. I knew things were going to be dicey (pun intended) when they mentioned implementing some Battlefront mechanics into this one. It just doesn't feel like a Battlefield game to me. It's like they are catering to the CoD cry babies who switched over since it went futuristic... not the og BF vets.
> 
> And if I hear one more person say "it's just the beta" I'm going to lose my schit. The release is only 6 weeks away. This is basically what we're getting folks. A watered down version of what Battlefield once was.
> 
> ...


 
 I hate to agree with you man...but it's the truth.
  
 Feel like Battlefront with a WW1/WW2. Im not completely disappointed  but not feeling it much compared to BF4. Does feel very casual. But you do have to remember that they will do all this balancing crap for the noobs so maybe a year from now it will feel a bit different in terms of mechanic....maybe.

 And they wanted to make the BF series into something competitive...nope, not happening.

 I miss the BF1942, BF Vietnam, and BF2 days...well BF2142 too.
  
 But I'm not to sure if I want to pay 60 for BF1 ......I kind of do so I can rank up fast, unlock everything and be done with it lol just because its BF...sort of


----------



## Tenzo

clean6er said:


> hi,
> 
> i have the ath adg1 on my head as i type, i don't have or tried the ad700 which everyone says these are a form of, also i don't have the x version, i would assume the x version has the longer mic and mute switch not button like on mine.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the input man. The main reason I'm considering these is for competitive FPS and the convenience of the mic. Currently using K7xx + desktop mic for this purpose.

It's a shame they put a premium price on these


----------



## Evshrug

darkangelpt said:


> Im used to surround in call of Duty and battlefield. Helped a lot.
> So you say stereo is better? What are the stereo option? To use modmic as well




Here's how I look at it:
Everyone's ears are different. If you detect a difference and hear an advantage vs stereo, then enjoy that advantage.

There is a range of headshapes and earshapes (HRTF), the DSPs like Dolby Headphone, SBX, et al are designed based on one type of recording on a generic head dummy or another. They're almost all generic, but one HRTF option or another may be closer to your head/ears. I've got a slightly taller and narrower head but close to typical for a Westerner head, and weird shaped ear canals that don't fit most IEM ear tips well and don't drain earwax so well either, but overall I'm close enough to the HRTF that Creative's SBX is based on that I get clear 360° directionality (and the Surround slider on SBX somewhat helps tweak/customize it for you). I think the surround used in the DSS2 is also really interesting because you can change the positioning of the virtual speakers in the 360° surround field, so again you can kinda tweak to find something that "clicks" with your brain (though the processing is still based on a generic HRTF).

If you want something for *consoles*, less expensive and less noisy than the Mixamps, a used turtle beach DSS or DSS2 for $20-$30 is a great option. I have a friend who used to own an Astro base station (from a wireless set, but you could also plug in a wired headphone too, I believe), two Creative Recon3D USBs (from my suggestion), and he's currently most happy using a DSS2 connected to another $600 amp and then his HD800 because the DSS2 was the least noisy. If you are *playing on PC*, I would recommend an Asus U3 or Creative Omni 5.1, and use the optical outputs on those units to connect any optical DAC and amp. The Omni costs a little more($50-$60), but it actually has a decent DAC (and a slightly bright amp) to hold you over for a while if you need something while you save up for a DAC that is noticably worth upgrading to ($200+).


----------



## Evshrug

dukefx said:


> The thing we should rather discuss is binaural audio. I would expect it from at least those companies who are planning to make their game an e-sport. If they can't properly code it, they can always license something like dearVR.
> 
> @Darkangelpt I'm not an expert on consoles since I've always been a PC guy, but under normal circumstances there should be jack socket on a PS4 controller. I have no idea what options an XB controller has.



All the DSPs that didn't work for you (and the tinny one that did, CMSS-3D) work (in current times) as algorithms that take 5.1/7.1 encoded sound streams, and process them into a binaural mix for headphones. Sure, the binaural mix is limited by the made-for-home-theater-speakers type of input, and has no height cues except for the games Yethal mentioned (and I think BF3 & 4 has a built-in headphone mode with height but a very diffuse HRTF on top of a very chaotic-sounding game), but they're still technically binaural mixes. Apparently the fully 3D mixes from earlier games were just amazing, but they were before my time coming back to the PC. However, I do also look forward to the future of audio when games are designed at the onset for VR and headphones, and coming back to fully 3D audio.

They'll still (probably) be based on generic HTRFs instead of personalized HTRFs though.


----------



## ArjandeV

I'm looking into new headphones for gaming too.. I've always gamed with my DT 770 Pro + Creative E5 amp/soundcard. However, with the DT770 its nice I can't hear anything from the outside, but sometimes a bit annoying to as my girlfriend has to approach me and touch me before I know she needs my attention.. Also I've heard that the soundstage and positional audio is much better in open headphones. So I bought a DT 990 Pro yesterday.. however, this is too open for my liking. I can hear everything and although I can put it louder, it also leaks a lot.. When I have it loud enough too be able to focus on the game (FPS mainly) my girlfriend can pretty much hear everything as well.. So I was thinking about the DT880 as a compromise, but you guys might have different opinions?
  
 What would you guys suggest? 
  
 - Soundstage / positional audio is important
 - Over-ear design (or at least as comfortable as the DT 770)
 - Budget: around 100-200 euros


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> I hate to agree with you man...but it's the truth.
> 
> Feel like Battlefront with a WW1/WW2. Im not completely disappointed  but not feeling it much compared to BF4. Does feel very casual. But you do have to remember that they will do all this balancing crap for the noobs so maybe a year from now it will feel a bit different in terms of mechanic....maybe.
> 
> ...


 
 I've been thinking about switching over to Rainbow Six:Siege for the tactical gameplay. Or Overwatch maybe. Battlefield is no longer a game I enjoy playing. It's just a drag now.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> I've been thinking about switching over to Rainbow Six:Siege for the tactical gameplay. Or Overwatch maybe. Battlefield is no longer a game I enjoy playing. It's just a drag now.




Id say u should for sure check out Overwatch. I haven't played it all that much but Blizzard seems to be doing an excellent job managing it.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> Id say u should for sure check out Overwatch. I haven't played it all that much but Blizzard seems to be doing an excellent job managing it.


 
 It's free this weekend on consoles so I definitely will.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> I've been thinking about switching over to Rainbow Six:Siege for the tactical gameplay. Or Overwatch maybe. Battlefield is no longer a game I enjoy playing. It's just a drag now.


 

 Did any of you guys ever play Squad? I checked out a load of videos last year (I think). Seemed really good for people that wanted something a bit less casual. I think most of the games competing for the limelight nowadays are probably going to cater to the more casual player (which personally I don't mind as I rarely play multiplayer), so less mainstream games may be a better bet for people wanting something a bit more tactical/challenging.


----------



## alitomr

arjandev said:


> I'm looking into new headphones for gaming too.. I've always gamed with my DT 770 Pro + Creative E5 amp/soundcard. However, with the DT770 its nice I can't hear anything from the outside, but sometimes a bit annoying to as my girlfriend has to approach me and touch me before I know she needs my attention.. Also I've heard that the soundstage and positional audio is much better in open headphones. So I bought a DT 990 Pro yesterday.. however, this is too open for my liking. I can hear everything and although I can put it louder, it also leaks a lot.. When I have it loud enough too be able to focus on the game (FPS mainly) my girlfriend can pretty much hear everything as well.. So I was thinking about the DT880 as a compromise, but you guys might have different opinions?
> 
> What would you guys suggest?
> 
> ...


 
  
 I have been reading a ton trying to make an inform decision and prevent returns/resells that can turn out quite expensive and sometimes frustrating. I game in a PS4, and I am looking to improve the audio quality over the Sony Gold Wireless, while keeping the chat/game mix capability, and gaining an edge when playing FPS online with friends. 
  
 It seems to me there is always a trade off. I am currently playing using my modi 2 uber, to the valhalla 2 to my HD600. While the audio quality is great, I am having trouble accommodating a mic in my sometimes loud room (ceiling fan), and it is extremely annoying not being able to lower the party volume, which result in an unbearable experience when things get loud, and they get loud often with my friends. 
  
 To fix the party/game mix problem, I used two mixers with a complicated wiring scheme, but there was a lot of hiss and sounds coming from my own mic. It seems the only viable option for me is the mixamp pro tr to use along with my magni 2 uber or the valhalla 2, with a set of cans for gaming. 
  
 And here comes the trade offs relevant to you again: it seems that immersion and competitiveness cant coexist in a headphone. The two best are the AKG K701(2) and the AD700x, but they both are not so great when it comes to fun factor. So, I considered the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, which I have been considering for a while, but they dont seem as solid for competitive gaming and positional awareness than the other two. 
  
 In  my case, there is also the problem of the mic in the sometimes noisy environment that my room is. 
  
 It seems to me that the DT990 pro will suit you. It is still considered great by MLE for soundstage/positional audio and very fun (i think it is his favorite overall, or was when reviewed). 
  
 I have the mixamp pro TR and a couple mics in the cart but can't decide between the immersion of DT990 and the legendary status of the AD700x. I will probably have to try them both.


----------



## themrmikemcd

while a new member,I have been using your guide for a year now trying to find the perfect headphones for non competative gaming and just to enjoy the sounds and music of the game. Like watching a movie. I have tried the HD598, AD700X, M50x and the CALS. While all awesome none have met my needs. I was and still am a noob. I do have a pair of dt990 coming tomorrow that i think will fit the bill. I have a mixamp and fio E12 amp. Cant wait to try these. now that I know a little more about sound and bought headphones in the category that actually suits my needs. Thank you for an awesome guide!


----------



## Saldi

Hello there.I am a new member and and i would like some extra help from you besides the guide
 1st.I am a cs go player!I only play cs and no other games.I am pretty descent player and my ears are sharp enough(according my believes) BUT i think that my headphones lower down the scale of my "sound understanding".Now i got the AKG 171MK2.
 2.My budget is MAX-MAX-TOP 600euro(inc amp-amp/dac)

 After i read you reviews-guide i end up that AD700x are the best headphones for cs go...BUT....i am not sure if they are also now...(3/18/2016)..and also i would rather buy some headphones that are much better for some great music or movies as well.
 Thats why i  would rather buy the HD-650 because i know that the clarity and the "specificity" of sound is not able to hear it-enjoy it with ad700x .....on the other hand they dont got the soundstage and imaging of ad700x and the competitive "advantage" that ad700x got

 So my main question is...
 Is there ANY headphone that is more good in soundstage-imagine( competitive-fps games:cs go) or even equal with AD700x but also as good as the hd-650 are for music-movies?

 I was almost ready to buy the K701 or the KXXX but a friend of mine told me that i would have to spend 200-300euro in order to buy a big amp for thoses headphones...So i said to my self that there is "no reason" to pay that much for 701+amp...i wont get better results in gaming-comp[etitive from ad700x neither better results in music-movies like hd-650+100euro amp...

 Do you also know if there is any upcoming headphone that MIGHT be the best for my needs?


 Thank you very much for your time.

 I would love to hear any of you telling me your opinion according my needs-thoughts.


----------



## Evshrug

arjandev said:


> ...However, with the DT770 its nice I can't hear anything from the outside, but sometimes a bit annoying to as my girlfriend has to approach me and touch me before I know she needs my attention...
> 
> So I bought a DT 990 Pro yesterday.. however, this is too open for my liking. I can hear everything and although I can put it louder, it also leaks a lot.. When I have it loud enough too be able to focus on the game (FPS mainly) my girlfriend can pretty much hear everything as well.. So I was thinking about the DT880 as a compromise, but you guys might have different opinions?




Gee.
Uh.
So, tell me if I understand the problem: you want isolation because there's usually background noise that distracts you (girlfriend watching Netflix/tv?), but you still want your girlfriend to get your attention without touching you?
I'm afraid there isn't any headphone that both isolates and doesn't isolate, as in being able to filter out everything but your girlfriend (as much as I'm sure she'd love that!). You DO have two headphones now, maybe use the open one if you're home alone and want to hear when your girlfriend comes in (that's what I do), and use the closed one when there's actively background noise that you want to ignore. Active noise cancelling cuts out steady environmental sounds like wurrrs and hiss and rumbles, but not distinct sounds like talking, so maybe something like that could help... Maybe.
I feel like the best solution might be thinking a bit outside the box. Since you don't like her touching you, and you can't hear her with closed or open headphones (volume much, dude? Careful with your hearing!), maybe she can ask for your attention with a little light or something. I have smart lightbulbs, and one of the lights in my gameroom is set to turn red when she gets home, but you could also just get something with a small light and a remote (maybe a lamp connected to a light switch? Or a toy?) that you could place in front of you and she could use.

First world problems, yay!




alitomr said:


> I have been reading a ton trying to make an inform decision and prevent returns/resells that can turn out quite expensive and sometimes frustrating. I game in a PS4, and I am looking to improve the audio quality over the Sony Gold Wireless, while keeping the chat/game mix capability, and gaining an edge when playing FPS online with friends.
> 
> It seems to me there is always a trade off. I am currently playing using my modi 2 uber, to the valhalla 2 to my HD600. While the audio quality is great, I am having trouble accommodating a mic in my sometimes loud room (ceiling fan), and it is extremely annoying not being able to lower the party volume, which result in an unbearable experience when things get loud, and they get loud often with my friends.
> 
> ...



Yeah, mixing game and chat is always a challenge, even if you have the controls right in front of you the loudness of friends always changes.
Regarding your mic, I recommend researching something unidirectional, cartioid, or beamforming to try to focus the mic pickup towards your mouth. Sometimes even just a mic that isn't very sensitive and has to be placed close to your mouth can help. I don't have an immediate product recommendation for you though, because so far my rooms are pretty quiet (except for a minute when the central air kicks on for a minute).




themrmikemcd said:


> While a new member, I have been using your guide for a year now trying to find the perfect headphones for non competative gaming and just to enjoy the sounds and music of the game. Like watching a movie. I have tried the HD598, AD700X, M50x and the CALS. While all awesome none have met my needs. I was and still am a noob. I do have a pair of dt990 coming tomorrow that i think will fit the bill. I have a mixamp and fio E12 amp. Cant wait to try these. now that I know a little more about sound and bought headphones in the category that actually suits my needs. Thank you for an awesome guide!



Big thumbs up!
Hope you love your DT990s!


----------



## dukefx

evshrug said:


> All the DSPs that didn't work for you (and the tinny one that did, CMSS-3D) work (in current times) as algorithms that take 5.1/7.1 encoded sound streams, and process them into a binaural mix for headphones. Sure, the binaural mix is limited by the made-for-home-theater-speakers type of input, and has no height cues except for the games Yethal mentioned (and I think BF3 & 4 has a built-in headphone mode with height but a very diffuse HRTF on top of a very chaotic-sounding game), but they're still technically binaural mixes. Apparently the fully 3D mixes from earlier games were just amazing, but they were before my time coming back to the PC. However, I do also look forward to the future of audio when games are designed at the onset for VR and headphones, and coming back to fully 3D audio.
> 
> They'll still (probably) be based on generic HTRFs instead of personalized HTRFs though.


 
 Well it's my spaghetti and pizza example all over again. True binaural audio is produced by using a dummy head with a mic in each ear. It works perfectly. I can give such recordings a solid 10/10. Next up we have simulated positional audio that tries to mimic this. There are very few engines that can do this. I'd rate them 8.5/10 for realism (pretty much the games you mentioned). Then we have the 5.1 or 7.1, or simply stereo to stereo conversion. It's absolutely terrible: 2/10 on average.
  
 So it's
 - true binaural
 - mimicing
 - conversion
  
 Now that we are done naming every process here's something that imho falls into the conversion category, but it's absolutely stunning:
Binaulab Audio 3D on Youtube has a few oldies. I don't know how they did it, but it does sound like true binaural.
  
 Skip the first 1min


----------



## Clean6eR

alitomr said:


> In  my case, there is also the problem of the mic in the sometimes noisy environment that my room is.


 
 hi,
  

a boom mic close to the mouth driven off a mix amp tr using its noise gates does a good job of killing fan noise when your not speaking.
  

the turtle beach TAC if you get its headset (which has good sound stage for gaming and i feel GODLY future of ear cushions) and tournament mic pack hooks up using two connectors and it actively cancels ambient noise in the room, i believe by using two mics and mixing the sounds like how ANC works on a headset. it really works and greatly reduces background noise a LOT. but it does make you sound a little "off", understandable and most wouldn't notice a difference but not as clean sounding as not using the noise canceling.
  
 the turtle beach headset i would say is a really good effort from turtle beach and meets almost all stadium gamers needs (cool, closed, wide sounding), its just that they are sensitive enough to pick up the low level hiss that the TAC outputs and the detail level and crispiness is not on par with my favorite gaming headsets(hd800,ath adg1,k701. hyperx cloud revolvers, t70, d7100). in a stadium or LAN meet that hiss would be ignored and i'd find it a hard fight between the Astro TR with tournament kit and turtle beach TAC pro headset and Tournament Mic setups (i'd pick TB), i feel the turtle beech set is more detailed and clean, but if not using the packaged headsets then i think most prefer the Astro mixamp while i don't 
  

you could go with the x7 and apply all the processing to your mic to cut out background noise, it works well but then you have no way of monitoring your own voice in a instant fashion, it doesn't suit closed or sealing headsets, but v nice with my ath adg1.


----------



## Evshrug

dukefx said:


> Well it's my spaghetti and pizza example all over again. True binaural audio is produced by using a dummy head with a mic in each ear. It works perfectly. I can give such recordings a solid 10/10. Next up we have simulated positional audio that tries to mimic this. There are very few engines that can do this. I'd rate them 8.5/10 for realism (pretty much the games you mentioned). Then we have the 5.1 or 7.1, or simply stereo to stereo conversion. It's absolutely terrible: 2/10 on average.
> 
> So it's
> - true binaural
> ...



How are you going to put a dummy head in a game? "True" binaural, as you define it, is only available when recording music played live (ideally not while trying to play for a huge audience, unless you want that "in the audience" feel). What you call simulated positional audio or mimicking is putting a virtual dummy head (as defined by the recording of an acoustic shape, aka head-related transfer function or HRTF) into a game environment or putting it into a simulated room with 5.1/7.1 speakers. So, all those techniques result in a binaural (two ear) stereo output. We're not talking pizza and pasta here, maybe the closer analogy is both are pasta cooked in water, but one is boiled on a stove and the other is getting heat from the microwave.

In the end, what matters is the user's perception. If you have a home theater with 7 speakers, and you play a game, the directions may be limited to the speaker placements and intentional crosstalk between them, but the vast majority of people will still be able to hear directions more distinctly, without rotating the camera, than with just two speakers in front pointed directly at them. Now, that perception is naturally based off the listener's actual natural HRTF instead of a dummy head or generic HRTF. Dolby, DTS, Creative, and others have to make a generic HRTF that will be close enough to the biggest population of human heads and upper torsos. They have different ideas about what is too generic and what will suit enough people, but over the years in this thread I have met people who legitimately just are too far from these HRTFs for the effect to work for them.

Using a HRTF with 7.1 or even 5.1 surround information is a far cry from limiting the information to stereo. With stereo, some manufacturers try to use an HRTF to "mimic" two stereo speakers in front of the listener, and some others don't even try very hard and just use some channel crossfeed and add some reverb. I agree that the latter is the worst and not worth using, some people might like simulating a stereo HiFi setup sometimes but it throws me off really bad in first person games because I hear stuff in front of me that is supposed to come from behind. The reality is that most first person game developers today develop for a 7.1 home theater setup as the "max" setting, and ignore the headphone user base. I want more, too, but I make the best with what's offered.

I'm excited about the implications and hopeful popularity of VR as we go forward, as those experiences are geared towards headphones from the onset. I really want to play space dogfight sims (with story and maybe 4x elements) and a Dead Space 2 remaster in VR! Those experiences will STILL use generic HRTFs unfortunately (would love to see Smyth Research's personalization techniques used with VR, ultimate!!), but combined with head tracking the virtual surround effect should me more noticeable to almost everybody.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I've been thinking about switching over to Rainbow Six:Siege for the tactical gameplay. Or Overwatch maybe. Battlefield is no longer a game I enjoy playing. It's just a drag now.




I was not impressed with R6 or Overwatch betas either, though Overwatch was better. Competitive FPS gaming is just terrible these days. I might just pick up Verdun.

Garden Warfare 2 is amazing, btw. That and the first one are probably the only shooters I've enjoyed recently. Crazy, right? Crazy fun! Haha.

Edit: CoD beta is due out in October. I honestly hope they do it the same week BF1 releases just to troll EA/DICE. I would.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> I was not impressed with R6 or Overwatch betas either, though Overwatch was better. Competitive FPS gaming is just terrible these days. I might just pick up Verdun.
> 
> Garden Warfare 2 is amazing, btw. That and the first one are probably the only shooters I've enjoyed recently. Crazy, right? Crazy fun! Haha.
> 
> Edit: CoD beta is due out in October. I honestly hope they do it the same week BF1 releases just to troll EA/DICE. I would.



Loved PvZ (and mostly liked PvZ2) on my tablet, the character variety and tone could be an interesting remix of the Battlefield formula. I really liked how the trailers made it look like the two teams didn't play identical and that everything had a counter, like a bigger rock/paper/scissors. Is that impression from the trailer true?

I kinda liked playing Rainbow 6 siege at my friend's house. I didn't LOVE it, because I kept getting caught off guard and wasn't sure of the maps, but that was probably my Noob-ness and it helped that I was able to watch my friend play better. Did aggravate an old irritation when I was crouch-following a teammate outside to see what he was doing and try to learn, only to have him turn and cripple me and leave me to bleed out.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> I was not impressed with R6 or Overwatch betas either, though Overwatch was better. Competitive FPS gaming is just terrible these days. I might just pick up Verdun.
> 
> Garden Warfare 2 is amazing, btw. That and the first one are probably the only shooters I've enjoyed recently. Crazy, right? Crazy fun! Haha.
> 
> Edit: CoD beta is due out in October. I honestly hope they do it the same week BF1 releases just to troll EA/DICE. I would.




You could always come back to destiny!!!  Hehehe


----------



## dukefx

evshrug said:


> How are you going to put a dummy head in a game? "True" binaural, as you define it, is only available when recording music played live (ideally not while trying to play for a huge audience, unless you want that "in the audience" feel). What you call simulated positional audio or mimicking is putting a virtual dummy head (as defined by the recording of an acoustic shape, aka head-related transfer function or HRTF) into a game environment or putting it into a simulated room with 5.1/7.1 speakers. So, all those techniques result in a binaural (two ear) stereo output. We're not talking pizza and pasta here, maybe the closer analogy is both are pasta cooked in water, but one is boiled on a stove and the other is getting heat from the microwave.
> 
> In the end, what matters is the user's perception. If you have a home theater with 7 speakers, and you play a game, the directions may be limited to the speaker placements and intentional crosstalk between them, but the vast majority of people will still be able to hear directions more distinctly, without rotating the camera, than with just two speakers in front pointed directly at them. Now, that perception is naturally based off the listener's actual natural HRTF instead of a dummy head or generic HRTF. Dolby, DTS, Creative, and others have to make a generic HRTF that will be close enough to the biggest population of human heads and upper torsos. They have different ideas about what is too generic and what will suit enough people, but over the years in this thread I have met people who legitimately just are too far from these HRTFs for the effect to work for them.
> 
> ...


 
 I don't really get your point here. You say it works for some, but doesn't for others due to different shapes and sizes. Then please tell me why a true binaural recording (or for that matter the example vid I posted) works perfectly for every single person in the world. I don't think I have to mention the virtual barbershop and co. Even a coworker of mine who is shorter, has a wider head and is using some cheap headphones could pinpoint Freddy Mercury's exact location just as I did. These things simply work.
  
 You wanna know what I think? People are being deceived by their brains, and not in a good way. Much like comparing a 100$ piece if equipment to a 1000$ one. The 1000$ one MUST be better (maybe it is maybe it isn't). This is why I usually take reviews with a grain of salt. Much like that people think that such emulation softwares MUST provide more spatial information, and they actually may in a few cases. I've seen reviews where one DAC was favored over the other in an A/B test. People then pointed out that the favored DAC has a higher voltage output and therefore has higher gain. After careful gain matching it turned out to be the opposite.
  
 Lets have a look at various solutions. While watching the Dolby Headphone demo (Life of Pie) all I can hear is that it's louder when it's "ON" and has some mild distortion. The other demo just adjusts volume. My best guess for CMSS-3D is that it tampers with lower frequencies and you get something like the bass vs soundstage dilemma in favor of the soundstage. On top of that it alters front and rear sounds a bit with reverbs. You learn to distinguish them once you get used to the game, but not outright! Realtek... well, it does nothing, absolutely nothing. SBX is similar to CMSS-3D, but it does sound a lot more natural, which in turn makes it less effective.
  
 As you can see I'm not denying that these tend to help a bit, but they are nothing like true binaural recordings or audio engines piecing together RAW positional information. I even had a look at the "Out of your head" demo, and another which I can't recall at the moment. They were both superior (judging purely by the demos provided) than any other software used for gaming (listed above), but still... they fell short of true binaural by a large margin.
  
 Lets hope the advance of VR technology will open up the final frontier and encourage developers to push for true 3D audio.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Loved PvZ (and mostly liked PvZ2) on my tablet, the character variety and tone could be an interesting remix of the Battlefield formula. I really liked how the trailers made it look like the two teams didn't play identical and that everything had a counter, like a bigger rock/paper/scissors. Is that impression from the trailer true?
> 
> I kinda liked playing Rainbow 6 siege at my friend's house. I didn't LOVE it, because I kept getting caught off guard and wasn't sure of the maps, but that was probably my Noob-ness and it helped that I was able to watch my friend play better. Did aggravate an old irritation when I was crouch-following a teammate outside to see what he was doing and try to learn, only to have him turn and cripple me and leave me to bleed out.




Yes, it really does carry over that rock/paper/scissors BF formula, but does it BETTER because of the character variety (similar to Overwatch). GW2 has about 8 characters on each side, each with about 8+ variations of itself (different special abilities and primary weapons). The devs constantly update it, adding even more variety as well. It has an open world with quests so you can familiarize yourself with the game mechanics, a 4 player co-op wave mode, and the addicting PvP modes. You are also able to free roam with your friends in the open world. And it has split screen for local co-op.

Rainbow six wasn't bad, I actually liked the formula it was using for tactical strategy and competitive team play. It was just those horrendous shooting mechanics I could not look over.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Rainbow six wasn't bad, I actually liked the formula it was using for tactical strategy and competitive team play. It was just those horrendous shooting mechanics I could not look over.


 
 One shot headshots regardless of the weapon are annoying but I was impressed with how non-toxic the community is.


----------



## NamelessPFG

I just gave the BF1 beta a spin, figuring I'd have no problem with it when I've got a system that manhandles BF4 maxed-out.

*WRONG, OH SO VERY WRONG.* The framerate was in the 30s even on Medium; something really isn't right here. I fired up BF4 again and, yep, it's back to buttery-smoothness.
  
 EA's got a lot of optimization work to do for the beta, because if an i7-4770K 4.6 GHz/32 GB DDR3-2400/GTX 980 setup struggles with it, that rules out a wide swath of the PC gaming audience already.
  
 Also, I feel kinda let down by how aircraft and tanks are handled; they're just limited spawns at certain control points. I kinda miss the old Battlefield way of doing things (1942 through Bad Company 2) where the vehicles were waiting on the map, ripe for the taking.
  
 Yes, people teamkilling to get a vehicle really sucked, but there was always this reassurance that if you happened to lose a tank or whatever, you could hoof it back and get another one. Or, if you're really sneaky, steal one from right under the enemy team's nose!

 EDIT: Figured out what my issue was after reading the BF1 forums. Turns out that the resolution scaling doesn't line up with the description at all: 42% is native res, 100% is excessive supersampling! In other words, just leave it at 42% unless you want your framerate in the pits.
  
 Oh, and I also learned the hard way that ground vehicle controls are NOT remapped despite what the menu tells you. This already led to one embarassing instance of repeatedly entering a vehicle and exiting the moment I try to move forward since I use ESDF, with E being the default enter/exit key. You see where that's going real quick...


----------



## Evshrug

My point is, at least Dolby Headphone, DTS X, SBX, and others are doing more than simply adding reverb and lowering bass!

There's still factors yet unknown to science about how our brain interprets directional sound... Using a dummy or a PRIR made from putting mics in your own ears neatly sidesteps completely understanding. Dolby headphone was made awhile ago, science has learned more since then. Stillhart got to hear a Smyth Realiser with a generic HTRF a few years back (not measured for his PRIR), and even then he told me the sensation of direction and an "out of your head" sound completely unlike typical headphone listening happened for him. Many others have been "wow'd" by that product over the years, and Darin Fong's "Out Of Your Head" software uses very similar tech (some guys on the Realiser threads say it IS the same tech, but I don't firsthand know anything official). That IS using 7.1 surround info, and applying a HRTF to it.

I have seen others come in and watch the same Dolby or CMSS-3D or SBX videos as me, and most of them say "Wow! I'm getting a Mixamp [or whatever]," but every once in awhile someone comes in and says they don't hear what I and most other people have heard. And there's disagreements about which method sounds best among the people that do hear directions. I don't think people that don't hear directions like I do are wrong... so the conclusion is something is different for them. It could partially be expectation, but as I learn more about binaural audio, HTRFs, and most recently PRIRs, the more I do think the inability to hear the directions stems from physiological or mental-processing differences from what the makers of General HTRFs were targeting. Or maybe an audio chain that doesn't resolve as well could be contributing. Do I know for sure? No. I just know for sure I hear it with some DSPs (yamaha's Silent Cinema is for me like how you describe all the DSPs), and some people don't.

I do agree that ray-tracing audio directions before filtering them down into a home theater surround speaker preset is way better. I also have heard snake oil improvements and overpriced gear, but I also have heard definite improvements beyond placebo with the right gear.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I've been thinking about switching over to Rainbow Six:Siege for the tactical gameplay. Or Overwatch maybe. Battlefield is no longer a game I enjoy playing. It's just a drag now.


 
 Yeah same here....well, although I love R6 games, I have read there are still many hackers among the servers and Ubisoft isn't caring much about supporting the game, compared to The Division.
  
 Overwatch however, I dont own it yet but more likely will pick it up on Black Friday since I am really trying not to spend and save me some money right before the holidays.
  
 I will probably still get Battlefield since most of my friends also play Battlefield games but I dont think I will buy its season pass.
  
 Funny how Battlefront lost glamour and spotlight so quickly.....I think last month or so only 20k people were playing it on PC.....that's not a lot of players if you ask me :/


----------



## pervysage

I'm mainly a Overwatch player right now and it is TONS of fun and can be very competitive.
  
 HOWEVER, it is not a great game to solo queue in. If you have friends to play with I would definitely give it a try.
  
 You can play solo of course but it is extremely frustrating.


----------



## rudyae86

namelesspfg said:


> I just gave the BF1 beta a spin, figuring I'd have no problem with it when I've got a system that manhandles BF4 maxed-out.
> 
> *WRONG, OH SO VERY WRONG.* The framerate was in the 30s even on Medium; something really isn't right here. I fired up BF4 again and, yep, it's back to buttery-smoothness.
> 
> ...


 
  
  
 Upong reading the beginning of your post, I already knew you probably had a problem with the scaling issue. Its pretty dumb how they set it up. 42% is your native resolution but somehow its abug and should be at 50%? and even then, they should have kept it like in BF4 at 100% for native resolution.

 I put it up to 50% just to give me more sharpness and I stay above 100s with my 980 Ti. I could turn down some settings of which dont really show a difference, especially while playing.
  
 So you use ESDF as WASD? How does that feel compared to the traditional WASD?

 I find it it weird and awkward, especially since I have long fingers....never really gave it time to adjust to ESDF. I can see how you can use your ring finger the ability to use Q and W with little effort but then I would have the shift to far from my pinky and its lack of mobility doesn't help either. Almost feels as if my pinkies curve to the right lol


----------



## Napalmhardcore

When it comes to true binaural recording, because it is real sounds interacting with a physical dummy head, the experience will come close to hearing it in real life as essentially it is real. It's just not your own head that it was recorded with but a dummy. In the case of videogames the effect must be simulated due to their dynamic nature.
  
 As I understand it, Dolby Headphone and other equivalent technologies are attempting to simulate a 7.1/5.1 speaker setup as opposed to trying to simulate the environment portrayed in the game. I'm fairly certain they are using convolution to do so which means they are recreating a particular listening environment. When this kind of technology was originally conceived, much of the time they were aiming to recreate the experience of watching a movie at the cinema, so it is conceivable that the environment they based their algorithms on is a movie theatre, hence the reverb. With the simulation of listening to speakers in an environment, the sound will not seem as direct as having audio from a particular channel pumped directly into your ear. This is why many people perceive the sound quality as having diminished. Different companies will have used different environments, different equipment as well as probably implementing different techniques along the way to achieve their goal, so that accounts for why each technology sounds different.
  
 Creative had a technology (I can never remember the name) that was actually taking true positional audio from within the virtual environment, but it fell out of use for various reasons. Being this technology was in its infancy and the processing was done on far less powerful processors than we have today could account for any perceivable lack of quality. Dolby Atmos is now using a similar approach of audio coming from a point in 3D space as opposed to using left and right panning to achieve the illusion (which doesn't take height into account because traditionally speaker setups have been placed around but not above or below listeners). In essence, Dolby Atmos and other emerging technologies based on the same principle are picking up where Creative left off, though they'll have the benefit of more powerful processing and and whatever advancements have been made in sound science over the last decade or so (and in the case of Dolby, adoption by the movie industry as a few directors are already using it).
  
 I believe this info to be essentially correct, but I'm always happy for people to correct any inaccuracies.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rudyae86 said:


> Upong reading the beginning of your post, I already knew you probably had a problem with the scaling issue. Its pretty dumb how they set it up. 42% is your native resolution but somehow its abug and should be at 50%? and even then, they should have kept it like in BF4 at 100% for native resolution.
> 
> I put it up to 50% just to give me more sharpness and I stay above 100s with my 980 Ti. I could turn down some settings of which dont really show a difference, especially while playing.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Long ago, I started on WASD after finally migrating away from arrow keys. Hey, DOS-era gaming habits die hard sometimes.
  
 But then I started getting into Tribes 2, which defaults to ESDF. There's actually a very good reason for this, since it uses a ton of binds; for instance, you've got one bind for throwing grenades, another for throwing mines, yet another for placing beacons, and then there's medpacks and repair kits... having that QAZ cluster off to the left helps a lot, and I still don't have too much trouble reaching Shift or Ctrl.
  
 Ever since then, I never looked back. I remapped all my other games to ESDF whenever possible, which ironically includes every other entry in the Starsiege: Tribes subseries that defaults to WASD, and that's how I've played ever since. If anything, hardbound WASD commands infuriate me in much the same way developers like Blizzard assume that everyone just uses a 16:9 monitor and makes everyone else suffer with FOV loss.
  
 However, quirks like that with remapping make me wish I had one of those Nostromo N52-sorta devices that let me program the device itself to all the usual WASD defaults without actually making me suffer the muscle memory issues involved with actually using WASD. I find the Razer Orbweaver way too overpriced just to have Cherry MX switches in such a device, though, and even then, I kinda want it to behave more like my MS SideWinder Strategic Commander where the whole thing's actually a left-hand analog joystick for movement wherever possible, leaving all the keys on top free for weapon bindings or MMORPG abilities or whatever.
  


napalmhardcore said:


> Creative had a technology (I can never remember the name) that was actually taking true positional audio from within the virtual environment, but it fell out of use for various reasons. Being this technology was in its infancy and the processing was done on far less powerful processors than we have today could account for any perceivable lack of quality. Dolby Atmos is now using a similar approach of audio coming from a point in 3D space as opposed to using left and right panning to achieve the illusion (which doesn't take height into account because traditionally speaker setups have been placed around but not above or below listeners). In essence, Dolby Atmos and other emerging technologies based on the same principle are picking up where Creative left off, though they'll have the benefit of more powerful processing and and whatever advancements have been made in sound science over the last decade or so (and in the case of Dolby, adoption by the movie industry as a few directors are already using it).


 
  
 You might be thinking of CMSS-3D Headphone, which can actually draw from points in 3D space if the game's using DirectSound3D or OpenAL as its API of choice.
  
 Even then, Creative wasn't first; Aureal was. Go listen to some Aureal A3D headphone demos sometime and prepare to have your mind blown with how games like Half-Life and Unreal Tournament sounded on a Vortex2 chipset card with full-blown A3D 2.0 enabled.
  
 They even had full-blown audio wavetracing going on in the late 1990s, but since the Vortex cards were actually just fancy ASICs with hardware HRTF handling, they had to do the fancier stuff in software, which took a noticeable FPS toll back when a 500 MHz CPU was considered pretty fast. The SQ3500 Turbo with its DSP daughterboard was supposed to close the gap, but Aureal folded thanks to the expenses of fending off Creative's lawyers - a very sad Pyrrhic victory.
  
 Only now are we starting to see the likes of NVIDIA taking GPU-wavetraced audio seriously, which is something I've actually thought about since the dawn of GPGPU nearly a decade ago. GPUs are naturally suited to that stuff, but of course, developers want to put the available resources toward more visual shader effects instead.
  
 It's also why I say that Dolby Atmos and its ilk are a decade late in bringing object-based audio to movies. PC gamers were enjoying that stuff years ago!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

> Originally Posted by *NamelessPFG* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> You might be thinking of CMSS-3D Headphone, which can actually draw from points in 3D space if the game's using DirectSound3D or OpenAL as its API of choice.
> 
> ...


 

 I'll have to see if I can find some A3D demonstrations. I wasn't heavily into PC gaming in the '90s (my brother bought a PC in '98 that I played from time to time) and wasn't really too concerned about audio back then. I did recall Creative doing it (I learned about that some point in the last five years) but have never actually played with it. I believe the newer Creative cards actually have software that can enable CMSS-3D in supported games, so I may look into trying it at some point. I tried looking for Dolby Atmos Headphone demos last week and couldn't find a whole lot. I saw one where a guy was playing Overwatch on PC but there weren't many examples of what I really wanted to hear which is sound coming from above and below.
  
 My big gripe with game audio is the lack of distinction between audio that comes from above or below. Even if they just changed the volume between when an object is above you and you are looking straight ahead vs looking up at the object would be a step in the right direction. The other thing that bugs be is the lack of occlusion when an object is behind a wall or through a ceiling. So often I've turned ready to kill an enemy that isn't even in the same room or on the same level as me because it sounds like they're in the room with me. It breaks the immersion.


----------



## Saldi

saldi said:


> Hello there.I am a new member and and i would like some extra help from you besides the guide
> 1st.I am a cs go player!I only play cs and no other games.I am pretty descent player and my ears are sharp enough(according my believes) BUT i think that my headphones lower down the scale of my "sound understanding".Now i got the AKG 171MK2.
> 2.My budget is MAX-MAX-TOP 600euro(inc amp-amp/dac)
> 
> ...


 
 Because topic is more than active i bump this post in order to get any anwsers!!





 Give it some time please.


 Thank you very much


----------



## Napalmhardcore

saldi said:


> Because topic is more than active i bump this post in order to get any anwsers!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 I know this question is not directed at me, but experience has taught me what you will likely be told by others in this thread (including Mad Lust Envy).
  
 There is no definitive answer to your question. While certain headphones excel at certain things like imaging and having a wide sound stage, how good a headphone is for music enjoyment comes down to individual taste. MLE has stated in the past that his reviews are based on his subjective opinion and I believe he wanted to do stop using the scoring system (maybe it over simplified how he felt about each set of headphones). People can suggest headphones you might like based on your experience with other headphones and how they compare, but nobody knows your ears and preferences better than you do.


----------



## alitomr

clean6er said:


> hi,
> 
> 
> a boom mic close to the mouth driven off a mix amp tr using its noise gates does a good job of killing fan noise when your not speaking.
> ...


 
 Hey. thank you!
  
 I considered the X7, but price and most importantly not having the function to "mix" chat/game audio to my liking is the reason I stopped considering it. 
  
 I ordered the Mixamp TR PS4, and the modmic unidirectional, noise cancelling with mute button, along with the AD700x. I will try it all and I dont like them I'm most likely returning them, except the mixamp, because at this point it´s the only device I know that allows you to mix party/game. 
  
 I justified the investment because I am gaming, FPS, BOIII, practically all evenings. But it is around 300, and that doesnt include last months purchases, that includes the HD600, modi-magni 2 uber and the Valhalla 2. 
  
 


----------



## alitomr

saldi said:


> Hello there.I am a new member and and i would like some extra help from you besides the guide
> 1st.I am a cs go player!I only play cs and no other games.I am pretty descent player and my ears are sharp enough(according my believes) BUT i think that my headphones lower down the scale of my "sound understanding".Now i got the AKG 171MK2.
> 2.My budget is MAX-MAX-TOP 600euro(inc amp-amp/dac)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I am in a similar spot as you. I have the HD600 with the modi 2 uber, magni 2 uber and valhalla 2, and they all sound great for gaming, and even though the soundstage isnt huge, the depth of the HD600, specially with the Valhalla 2, is nothing short of amazing. The problem that made me look into something else is my current inability to lower party volume, when playing with my lousy friends. It really damages the experience. So, I started looking and found this thread, which made me notice (again) the DT990, and put in the radar the K701 and AD700x. 
  
 After lots of deliberation I decided to see if the loss of immersion and overall sound quality that I will have with the AD700x in regards to the HD600, is justified by an 2edge2 in competittive gaming, by an increased positional awareness and imaging. 
  
 I ordered the Ad700, along with the modmic, and the mixamp pro tr ps4. I have plans to use it with magni 2 uber.  Everything is going to be tested and the equipment that doesnt add to the experience is going back. I had fixed the party volume issue with two mixers, but the hiss I got was close too unbearable, so I decided to go with the mixamp pro tr. 
  
 I will let you know about the differences between the HD600 and the Ad700x.


----------



## Saldi

napalmhardcore said:


> I know this question is not directed at me, but experience has taught me what you will likely be told by others in this thread (including Mad Lust Envy).
> 
> There is no definitive answer to your question. While certain headphones excel at certain things like imaging and having a wide sound stage, how good a headphone is for music enjoyment comes down to individual taste. MLE has stated in the past that his reviews are based on his subjective opinion and I believe he wanted to do stop using the scoring system (maybe it over simplified how he felt about each set of headphones). People can suggest headphones you might like based on your experience with other headphones and how they compare, but nobody knows your ears and preferences better than you do.


 
 Thanks a lot for you  telling me your opinion.
 Of course there is no directed (OBJECTIVE) answer however there is a subjective answer from someone that is "objective" in his opinion about that.
 So if any experienced guy with lot of knowledge about how tech-audio works,how headphones work can give me his subjective opinion according my PERSONAL preferences-needs that would be awesome.There are many audiophile people that they are experienced enough in order to tell me their opinion of what would be better for me to do Envy is one of those people and many many of you.
 I am really noobie in audiophile but there is a "problem" since i am something like "high sensitive person" and i love to search deep enough in order to choose the best of what i want.Unfortunately i dont got the knowledge - knowhow-experience thats why i cant decide as "proper-good" as possible by my self and i need your-yours help in order to choose.

 SO thank you very much again for your post because it helps me to express my thoughts and you also understand more what is exactly what i need.Thats why also  i did try to give you as much as help according my EXACT needs on my previous(1st post on that section)
  


alitomr said:


> I am in a similar spot as you. I have the HD600 with the modi 2 uber, magni 2 uber and valhalla 2, and they all sound great for gaming, and even though the soundstage isnt huge, the depth of the HD600, specially with the Valhalla 2, is nothing short of amazing. The problem that made me look into something else is my current inability to lower party volume, when playing with my lousy friends. It really damages the experience. So, I started looking and found this thread, which made me notice (again) the DT990, and put in the radar the K701 and AD700x.
> 
> After lots of deliberation I decided to see if the loss of immersion and overall sound quality that I will have with the AD700x in regards to the HD600, is justified by an 2edge2 in competittive gaming, by an increased positional awareness and imaging.
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you very much for your reply.After some thoughts i put out of my mind to buy hd650 because i think that i wont get that benefit vs ad700 or k7xx-701-712 so now i only searching wich of them gonna be better(i think that i will end up with 7XXX or 712.Besides that i will wait for your review because you might find that the diffs are not big at all and being honest i would rather buy the hd650 rather than any akg or audio technica.
 Also it would be nice to test-compare and the 7xxx or 712 but i guess you cant.
 I will also send you a message in order to "bother"you for let me know about the results(if you forget to do it) and then i will proceed to my order

 Thank you a lot mate we will keep in touch


----------



## dukefx

The K712 is the clear winner and it's one of the best all-rounders. You may need amplification, but even a DF Black can drive it (1.2V).


----------



## Nikorasu

Sennheiser HD 800S question? Is there a loss in sound stage over the HD 800? And if so is it super noticeable? I really can't decide on the HD 800 vs 800S. I know the HD 800S has better bass and the treble spike is gone but I don't want to sacrifice the sound stage if the difference is huge. I also don't want to take a chance with the treble spike if I get the regular HD 800. Please help me. How good are the HD 800S not just for music, but for movies and video games as well vs over the regular HD 800. I want to know because I'll be purchasing them in the next 2 weeks. My current DAC/AMP is the Sound Blaster X7. Also I'll be using them on my Casio Privia PX 160 digital piano. Alot of reviews say the HD 800S is better though. It has a lower frequency for better bass, the treble spike has also been fixed. The HD 800S should bring out the other frequencies more as well, in fact here's a quote from Sennheiser "By absorbing the energy of the resonance, Sennheiser’s patented absorber technology prevents any unwanted peaks and allows all frequency components – even the finest nuances – in the music material to become audible. This innovation was a key element in making the IE 800 the world’s best sounding in ear headphone, and in the HD 800 S it helps to bring even greater purity and precision”. So if that's the case and what sennheiser says is true, why not just call it a day and say the HD 800S is better? There should be no loss in soundstage over the HD 800 right? But what is gained is a warmer overall sound with improved bass and no treble spike. Besides if the new HD 800S sounds better in music then the regular HD 800, shouldn't it be good at everything else as well?﻿


----------



## Arniesb

nikorasu said:


> [COLOR=222222]Sennheiser HD 800S question? Is there a loss in sound stage over the HD 800? And if so is it super noticeable? I really can't decide on the HD 800 vs 800S. I know the HD 800S has better bass and the treble spike is gone but I don't want to sacrifice the sound stage if the difference is huge. I also don't want to take a chance with the treble spike if I get the regular HD 800. Please help me. How good are the HD 800S not just for music, but for movies and video games as well vs over the regular HD 800. I want to know because I'll be purchasing them in the next 2 weeks. My current DAC/AMP is the Sound Blaster X7. Also I'll be using them on my Casio Privia PX 160 digital piano. Alot of reviews say the HD 800S is better though. It has a lower frequency for better bass, the treble spike has also been fixed. The HD 800S should bring out the other frequencies more as well, in fact here's a quote from Sennheiser "By absorbing the energy of the resonance, Sennheiser’s patented absorber technology prevents any unwanted peaks and allows all frequency components – even the finest nuances – in the music material to become audible. This innovation was a key element in making the IE 800 the world’s best sounding in ear headphone, and in the HD 800 S it helps to bring even greater purity and precision”. So if that's the case and what sennheiser says is true, why not just call it a day and say the HD 800S is better? There should be no loss in soundstage over the HD 800 right? But what is gained is a warmer overall sound with improved bass and no treble spike. Besides if the new HD 800S sounds better in music then the regular HD 800, shouldn't it be good at everything else as well?﻿[/COLOR]


If i were you i whould pick Sennheiser HD800S, it will sound good whitout super colored amps and analog sounding dacs. Besides that tinner sound will never be super impressive for gaming(HD800S should be not as thin). I have really warm SS Beyerdynamic A20 and this amp is not enough to warrant sound whitout harshness, i also need analog sounding dac or any multibit dac to remove harshness completely. Thats why both T1 and HD800 is loved and hated equally, both need Very analog sounding dacs amps to sound their best in my opinion. HD800S should be much more friendly for delta sigma dacs and ordinary amps and so result should be more immersive sound for both gaming and music. I personally gonna buy HD800S sometime next year. I better buy HD800S than HD800 + another dac to fix high frequency problems that it have.


----------



## kellte2

arniesb said:


> If i were you i whould pick Sennheiser HD800S, it will sound good whitout super colored amps and analog sounding dacs. Besides that tinner sound will never be super impressive for gaming(HD800S should be not as thin). I have really warm SS Beyerdynamic A20 and this amp is not enough to warrant sound whitout harshness, i also need analog sounding dac or any multibit dac to remove harshness completely. Thats why both T1 and HD800 is loved and hated equally, both need Very analog sounding dacs amps to sound their best in my opinion. HD800S should be much more friendly for delta sigma dacs and ordinary amps and so result should be more immersive sound for both gaming and music. I personally gonna buy HD800S sometime next year. I better buy HD800S than HD800 + another dac to fix high frequency problems that it have.


 
 If i could second this any harder, I would.  I owned the HD800 for a brief spell, and it was abrasive, thin, and metallic coming out of the X7.  The X7 is just too dry to warm up the HD800.  This particular set of HD800 even had the Anax mod 2.0, which supposedly tames the 10k peak, but the HD800's treble still was way too much for me.
  
 Even _*if*_ the HD800s soundstage isn't "quite" as good as the HD800, you're better off with the S variant for the aforementioned reasons.


----------



## Yethal

kellte2 said:


> If i could second this any harder, I would.  I owned the HD800 for a brief spell, and it was abrasive, thin, and metallic coming out of the X7.  The X7 is just too dry to warm up the HD800.  This particular set of HD800 even had the Anax mod 2.0, which supposedly tames the 10k peak, but the HD800's treble still was way too much for me.
> 
> Even if the HD800s soundstage isn't "quite" as good as the HD800, you're better off with the S variant for the aforementioned reasons.


 

 Wonder if a better set of op-amps would've made a difference.


----------



## kellte2

yethal said:


> Wonder if a better set of op-amps would've made a difference.


 

 I have the SS3601 op-amps installed on my X7.  Treble was still way too shrill for my ears,


----------



## Yethal

kellte2 said:


> I have the SS3601 op-amps installed on my X7.  Treble was still way too shrill for my ears,


 

 Burson op-amps I tried some time ago had much tamer vocals and fuller mids. Maybe they would have been a better pairing.


----------



## Fegefeuer

no, the amp section of the x7 isn't made for the HD800. It lacks voltage swing and is especially weak at dynamics (it's actually the weakest part of the X7 imo). I once called it "loudness" effect. X7, STX II, ZxR, they all "suffer" from it.
  
 I suggest getting a dedicated amp like the Vali 2, Valhalla 2, BH Crack etc. and hooking it up. Thank god we can finally output SBX over lineout.


----------



## Yethal

You break my heart @Fegefeuer. Unfortunately a dedicated headphone amp falls under "can't afford" category until I find a new job.


----------



## Evshrug

nikorasu said:


> [COLOR=222222]Sennheiser HD 800S question? Is there a loss in sound stage over the HD 800? And if so is it super noticeable?[/COLOR]



Well, there aren't as many people in this thread that own either an HD800 or HD800s as there is in the dedicated appreciation threads, and I've never personally heard an HD800s, BUT I do own an HD800 and I'll take a shot at sharing my opinion.

First of all, I was shocked the first time I heard the HD800 for myself. That was on a Cavalli Liquid Carbon (with balanced Norne Draug 2 cables) amp, an Audio GD DAC-19 (which is a Multibit DAC), and a little Astell & Kern DAP as a music source. Song was "Diamonds on the Souls of her Shoes." The backing male vocals burst into my attention, sounding very rich and "transported to another room," instantly causing shivers down my neck. As the song went on, I didn't hear the shrillness, thinness, or lack of bass that people complained about, instead I felt I was being served a satisfying but balanced meal. If you are used to something obviously bass boosted the HD800 has relatively less, but it wasn't flat (plenty of fizz!), boring (I found the Oppo PM-3 a little boring), or dull. Half a year later, when I bought one and connected it straight to my X7, I did sense an edge of shrillness that was worrying me a bit, but it was less fatiguing than the Q701 and certainly less than the DT880. Connecting to my own Liquid Carbon, no worries! But with a small 6kHz EQ dip in my X7, these days I often don't bother warming up the LC unless I want to go for maximum effort. I DO have some Burson OpAmps on the way that I'm excited to test. Overall, I'd say there's some truth to the general characteristics described by others, but the headphones are not nearly as weak as some people make them out to be.

Again, I haven't heard the HD800s, but the general concensus is the changes are (in absolute, objective terms) small, but that small change is enough for some people to keep the HD800s and not keep the HD800. Also, it's generally agreed that you don't get something for nothing, the exceptionally expansive soundstage becomes merely a large expansive soundstage, bass detail is a little muddied, treble is slightly clouded. Slightly. Based on my experience with the HD800, I bet the two are even closer than it seems when reading about them. For me, it was worth getting a pair for $800 rather than not being able to afford them at all, and the changes made in the s model doesn't particularly appeal to me (personally) anyway. EQ techniques have gotten super clean and unlossy too, if you really need to adjust.




yethal said:


> Wonder if a better set of op-amps would've made a difference.



Hmm!



fegefeuer said:


> no, the amp section of the x7 isn't made for the HD800. It lacks voltage swing and is especially weak at dynamics (it's actually the weakest part of the X7 imo). I once called it "loudness" effect. X7, STX II, ZxR, they all "suffer" from it.
> 
> I suggest getting a dedicated amp like the Vali 2, Valhalla 2, BH Crack etc. and hooking it up. Thank god we can finally output SBX over lineout.




Just in case anyone else is wondering, all the soundcards Feg mentioned use the same primary amp section (although different implementations, and different OpAmps). The X7 does hold the HD800 back a bit compared to my Liquid Carbon, but I still have a good time and primarily use my HD800 plugged straight into the X7 for clutter, electric bill, and setup time reasons. I just want to turn on and play my games.

I agree though, connecting an amp to the X7 does provide a noticeable improvement.


----------



## Clean6eR

alitomr said:


> Hey. thank you!
> 
> I considered the X7, but price and most importantly not having the function to "mix" chat/game audio to my liking is the reason I stopped considering it.
> 
> ...


 
 That should be a nice little setup i have the mixamp TR and a ath adg1 (like a ad700x with a mic slapped on the side) and also a modmic too.
  
 i find the mixamp to be more natural and smooth than the turtlebeach TAC (which is the only other good voice game mixing device with a mic monitor) it pairs nicely with the 700 headphones. that will make one nice little gaming setup!
  
 when you step up to the hd800 and pair them with the mixamp you start to really see you are underselling the headphones, the ad700 should suit the platform and pull the most out of it. a clear step up from the default astro a40 headset. 
  
 hope you enjoy it when you get it!


----------



## kellte2

evshrug said:


> I DO have some Burson OpAmps on the way that I'm excited to test.


 
  
 Which Burson OpAmps did you choose?


----------



## Evshrug

The Burson v5i, 2 singles and 2 doubles. First time rolling OpAmps, kiiiiinda Exciting. I don't expect as much of a change as tube rolling, but should be fun!


----------



## dukefx

evshrug said:


> The Burson v5i, 2 singles and 2 doubles. First time rolling OpAmps, kiiiiinda Exciting. I don't expect as much of a change as tube rolling, but should be fun!


 
 I have a V5i on the way as well.


----------



## themrmikemcd

evshrug said:


> Big thumbs up!
> Hope you love your DT990s!


 Okay... So i have had the DT990s for about 2 hours and with my fio e12 and my astro mix amp I am... How do I put this....IN LOVE!! These are EXACTLY what I have been looking for!! I am totally happy and so excited about music and gaming again! Thanks Head-fi people and thank you Mad Lust Envy!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I found some videos demonstrating Aureal this morning before I went to work. Very cool stuff. It even demonstrated one of the points I made about occlusion. Obviously there was room for refinement, but it certainly makes me sad that this kind of tech has been absent in the last few years when the early implementations were so promising.
  
 I also had time to check out some other videos that demonstrated newer tech. One was a recent Nvidia demo. The only problem I had with it was that it was demonstrating how audio interacts with the environment from the perspective of one's self. When you talk in real life, you also hear your voice through/in your own head, so the effect didn't really bring it home how this will better gaming audio. It's more of a presence in VR thing.
  
 The other examples I found were pretty cool, particularly the RealSpace 3D audio demo. It really nailed the height thing. Here's a couple of videos I found. I'm probably going to be checking out some more vids over the next day or two, so if anyone is interested, just say so and I'll post back anything particularly cool that I find.


----------



## Change is Good

Just wanted to give you guys with ps plus a heads up that prices are set to increase later this month on the 22nd. If you need to renew now is the time.


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> Just wanted to give you guys with ps plus a heads up that prices are set to increase later this month on the 22nd. If you need to renew now is the time.




Sometimes, change isn't so good. 

Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> I had the 600ohm 990s. All three need some amping however. A soundcard can amp relative efficient headphones, but I'm not so sure about the three Premium Beyers. Probably best off with the 250ohm as the 32ohm is more expensive and seems to be even harder to drive than the 250ohm...


 Just a quick question. I have the Dt990 pro 250ohm, astro mixamp pro and the fio e12 for my PS3/PS4. Is this set up enough to give me quality sound for these headphones or should I look for a better amp to pair with the mixamp pro? Also is the Fio e12 enough to boost my android phone? Just want to make sure im getting the best out of my new headphones. thanks!


----------



## lenroot77

themrmikemcd said:


> Just a quick question. I have the Dt990 pro 250ohm, astro mixamp pro and the fio e12 for my PS3/PS4. Is this set up enough to give me quality sound for these headphones or should I look for a better amp to pair with the mixamp pro? Also is the Fio e12 enough to boost my android phone? Just want to make sure im getting the best out of my new headphones. thanks!




The e12 is plenty powerful for your dt990's wether from the mixamp or your phone. Enjoy!


----------



## themrmikemcd

lenroot77 said:


> The e12 is plenty powerful for your dt990's wether from the mixamp or your phone. Enjoy!


Thank you so much! I'm so worried I don't have the right amp since it's a portable amp. But if you say I'm good than I'll stop worrying about it. Thanks again!!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> The Burson v5i, 2 singles and 2 doubles. First time rolling OpAmps, kiiiiinda Exciting. I don't expect as much of a change as tube rolling, but should be fun!



Soo, a proper review is on the way I hope. And a comparison with the stock setup using the HD800.


----------



## Saldi

napalmhardcore said:


> I found some videos demonstrating Aureal this morning before I went to work. Very cool stuff. It even demonstrated one of the points I made about occlusion. Obviously there was room for refinement, but it certainly makes me sad that this kind of tech has been absent in the last few years when the early implementations were so promising.
> 
> I also had time to check out some other videos that demonstrated newer tech. One was a recent Nvidia demo. The only problem I had with it was that it was demonstrating how audio interacts with the environment from the perspective of one's self. When you talk in real life, you also hear your voice through/in your own head, so the effect didn't really bring it home how this will better gaming audio. It's more of a presence in VR thing.
> 
> The other examples I found were pretty cool, particularly the RealSpace 3D audio demo. It really nailed the height thing. Here's a couple of videos I found. I'm probably going to be checking out some more vids over the next day or two, so if anyone is interested, just say so and I'll post back anything particularly cool that I find.




 So i am asking you and any other person...
 Would that it be possible to hear it for positioning sound for gaming?fps like cs go bf..?
 Its the first time that it came in my head and i think it can be awesome


----------



## Napalmhardcore

saldi said:


> So i am asking you and any other person...
> Would that it be possible to hear it for positioning sound for gaming?fps like cs go bf..?
> Its the first time that it came in my head and i think it can be awesome


 

 I'm not sure I understand the question. If you mean virtual surround in general, some people swear by it while others prefer to just use stereo. There are some videos and some comparisons on the first page of the thread and on Youtube that you can check out.
  
 If you mean the technologies I've talked about here, Aureal was something from the late '90s, but the company went out of business years ago (apparently due to legal disputes with Creative). As for the videos I linked, I don't know anything about them, but I imagine that they would have to be implemented during a game's development. It might be worth Googling to find out about them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm so upset with the PS4 Pro news, I lost sleep today. Seriously. I honestly don't wanna give them my money, but the base PS4 is struggling as is, so I'll trade it in for the Pro. But ugh.

Anyways, all that FPS talk, you all know me. I'll be on CoD Remastered exclusively, as for as online goes. The only online game I need.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

mad lust envy said:


> I'm so upset with the PS4 Pro news, I lost sleep today. Seriously. I honestly don't wanna give them my money, but the base PS4 is struggling as is, so I'll trade it in for the Pro. But ugh.
> 
> Anyways, all that FPS talk, you all know me. I'll be on CoD Remastered exclusively, as for as online goes. The only online game I need.


 

 It is pretty much exactly as I expected it to be. At least they kept the optical output (I remember you being concerned).


----------



## Clean6eR

mad lust envy said:


> I'm so upset with the PS4 Pro news, I lost sleep today. Seriously. I honestly don't wanna give them my money, but the base PS4 is struggling as is, so I'll trade it in for the Pro. But ugh.
> 
> Anyways, all that FPS talk, you all know me. I'll be on CoD Remastered exclusively, as for as online goes. The only online game I need.


 
 so they talk about using the screen tech well and having 4k and HDR to make an impact...
  
 yet no 4k uhd blu ray drive?!
  
 i'm hoping i miss read or understood that but with Microsoft supporting it and the PS4 only pushing 4TF compared to the scorpios hinted 6TF, if i was a one time buyer id be looking or at least waiting until the Scorpio is released.
  
 having said that ill get a "one s" for my main tv to watch tv, stream and watch uhd blu ray (its a 4k tv) and get a PS4 pro for my computer desk that only has a 1080p monitor, but ill be grumbling every rare time i decide to use it to play a blu ray


----------



## Saldi

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not sure I understand the question. If you mean virtual surround in general, some people swear by it while others prefer to just use stereo. There are some videos and some comparisons on the first page of the thread and on Youtube that you can check out.
> 
> If you mean the technologies I've talked about here, Aureal was something from the late '90s, but the company went out of business years ago (apparently due to legal disputes with Creative). As for the videos I linked, I don't know anything about them, but I imagine that they would have to be implemented during a game's development. It might be worth Googling to find out about them.


 
 This Tech that you did post on your first video was something like sbx-cmss-dolby headphone etc etc...am i right?
 Some tech for the sound for vr...And now i am asking if its possible to put this "RealSpace 3D Audio" on a pc(not for vr for normal fps games) and have the advantage of it rather than having sbx-cmss..:/


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Back when the Scorpio and One S were announced, Sony should have rushed back to the drawing board and re-assessed their plans as they hadn't confirmed the leaked specs (that turned out to pretty much bang on), even if it cost them in the short term. This gen hasn't exactly been propped up by its exclusives, so a large part of the reason the PS4 has done so well is because it has been the better console for multi-platform titles.
  
 If the rumoured specs of the Scorpio are to be believed (and quite frankly, there's not a great deal of reason to doubt them), not only have Sony dealt themselves a blow by not supporting UHD BluRay, but they have given away their "most powerful console" status. As I said, I'm not surprised. I didn't expect them to change the spec. I do wonder what the hell they are thinking though. They've been trouncing XBOX so far this gen and they've just thrown their advantage in the bin.
  
 Given XBOX One's poor start to the generation, Microsoft have done a lot to turn it around with stuff like backwards compatibility (even just as a gesture, that has made a lot of people happy and won them good faith). Sony seems to have been resting on their laurels and I really don't see what their long game is.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

saldi said:


> This Tech that you did post on your first video was something like sbx-cmss-dolby headphone etc etc...am i right?
> Some tech for the sound for vr...And now i am asking if its possible to put this "RealSpace 3D Audio" on a pc(not for vr for normal fps games) and have the advantage of it rather than having sbx-cmss..:/


 

 I've just had a brief glimpse at their website. I think I was right and it needs to be added by the game developer. If you'd like to read more details, check out their site http://realspace3daudio.com/
  
 As I said, I really don't know anything about it. It was just a cool demo that I thought people might find interesting.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm so upset with the PS4 Pro news, I lost sleep today. Seriously. I honestly don't wanna give them my money, but the base PS4 is struggling as is, so I'll trade it in for the Pro. But ugh.
> 
> Anyways, all that FPS talk, you all know me. I'll be on CoD Remastered exclusively, as for as online goes. The only online game I need.




I think it was only meant to be a slightly higher end model of the PS4, nothing more... hence the low price. I'll just wait for the PS5.

As for MW Remaster, man did that gameplay bring back memories. Too bad it's stuck behind a paywall... for now, at least.


----------



## Change is Good

Btw, how is this 30 day MW Remaster campaign early access going to work? Best Buy has this pre order bonus updated in the physical IW LE description, so it seems it applies to both physical and digital PS4 pre orders. My guess is the pre order needs to be paid for fully in order to receive the code.

Which brings me to ask (and I know this has been discussed before), but has it been confirmed if MWR is a separate game download yet? If so, then I may just buy the Legacy Edition for my nephew as Xmas present. That way when he downloads MWR we both get to play it together. IW will be physical so he'll be free to do what he wants with it (sell, trade in) if he doesn't like it. I have no interest it it other than maybe the campaign.


----------



## NamelessPFG

CoD4:MW Remaster? PC version or go home, Infinity Ward, and if you actually do go through with that, keep the leaning, mods and dedicated servers. We don't need a repeat of the Modern Warfare 2 fiasco.
  
 Then again, all I really want out of CoD right now is to find all the other BLOPS3 PC players who are willing to get together for some Shadows of Evil runs. Might add the other maps to that once the Season Pass isn't so obscenely overpriced.
  


saldi said:


> This Tech that you did post on your first video was something like sbx-cmss-dolby headphone etc etc...am i right?
> Some tech for the sound for vr...And now i am asking if its possible to put this "RealSpace 3D Audio" on a pc(not for vr for normal fps games) and have the advantage of it rather than having sbx-cmss..:/


 
  


napalmhardcore said:


> I've just had a brief glimpse at their website. I think I was right and *it needs to be added by the game developer.* If you'd like to read more details, check out their site http://realspace3daudio.com/
> 
> As I said, I really don't know anything about it. It was just a cool demo that I thought people might find interesting.


 
  
 See, that's the problem: getting developers to actually care enough to implement this kind of sound mix into their games, even non-VR ones. It seems like only Blizzard cared enough with Overwatch and its implementation of Dolby Atmos for headphones directly in the game engine's software sound mixer.
  
 I should point out that older PC games sounding great on headphones was more of a convenient coincidence than deliberate design. DirectSound3D (and later OpenAL) was just a means of exposing the sound objects in games to the sound card's driver so it could decide where and how to play back those sounds, much the same as Dolby Atmos does for movies today. The quality of your final mix ultimately depended on what your sound card's capable of, relieving the developer of that burden.
  
 Nowadays, though, developers have to actually think that maybe not everyone prefers a surround speaker setup for gaming, and as such make a headphone audio mix that actually handles positioning well. It's not easy, and it could actually sound worse than the usual virtual speaker surround mixes if done wrongly - much like trying to put DX12 or Vulkan in the hands of an inexperienced graphics programmer and expecting them to immediately take advantage of the lower CPU overhead instead of banging their head against the wall just trying to make their code work. Most won't even bother with it.
  
 I'm just glad that the second coming of VR is making developers take it seriously again, even if it has far-reaching benefits outside of VR too. Why not just slip one of these new audio plugins right into the game, even if it's not a VR title? Some are even free to use like Oculus Audio, and many of them just plug right into existing FMOD and Wwise implementations on current game engines. They just have to be willing to spend the development time to do so.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I thought this was interesting–went under the radar. Sony's new headphones support 3D Audio...
  
 The Platinum Wireless Headset, which will be available at a MSRP of 18,000 yen, $159 USD, €179 and £129*4, is a high-end gaming headset that makes games on PS4 come alive with rich and immersive audio. The headset boasts premium construction and materials for extra comfort, as well as enhanced highly positional 7.1 virtual surround sound powered by SIE’s proprietary 3D audio technology. *Select PS4 games supporting 3D audio for the headset will deliver surround sound from all directions, including above and below you, for more immersive experiences.* The new premium headset also features multi-position, hidden noise-cancelling microphones for clearer chat and is also compatible with PS VR and mobile devices using an included 3.5mm audio cable.
  

 Read more at http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2016/09/07/new-official-ps4-peripherals-announced-includes-new-dualshock-4-ps-camera-and-headset/#dHcuIir41SyF2xvx.99


----------



## Napalmhardcore

helvetica bold said:


> I thought this was interesting–went under the radar. Sony's new headphones support 3D Audio...
> 
> The Platinum Wireless Headset, which will be available at a MSRP of 18,000 yen, $159 USD, €179 and £129*4, is a high-end gaming headset that makes games on PS4 come alive with rich and immersive audio. The headset boasts premium construction and materials for extra comfort, as well as enhanced highly positional 7.1 virtual surround sound powered by SIE’s proprietary 3D audio technology. *Select PS4 games supporting 3D audio for the headset will deliver surround sound from all directions, including above and below you, for more immersive experiences.* The new premium headset also features multi-position, hidden noise-cancelling microphones for clearer chat and is also compatible with PS VR and mobile devices using an included 3.5mm audio cable.
> 
> ...


 

 That is pretty interesting. I'll be keeping an eye on that.
  
 Just an aside, did the PS camera ever get official PC drivers? I remember there being talk about it when PS4 launched. Wouldn't surprise me though if they just said that to get people to buy it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

This just reminded me. The old Sony headset did 7.1 virtual surround but as far as I could tell there was no box for decoding it, just a little wireless dongle. That means, either the processor was built into the headphones itself or the PS4 is sending out virtual surround sound directly. That must mean that the PS4 can send out multi-channel audio via USB (which I seem to remember them claiming it couldn't do) or it sends out a virtual surround mix.
 
This raises a couple of questions. 1) If the virtual surround decoder is built into the headset, why aren't there any other devices that use USB for surround sound? 2) If there isn't a processor built into the headset, aren't Sony being rear orifices by only enabling it for their headset and not any USB headset/DAC?


----------



## NamelessPFG

helvetica bold said:


> *Select PS4 games supporting 3D audio for the headset will deliver surround sound from all directions, including above and below you, for more immersive experiences.*


 
  
 I'm betting those PS4 games are also the same ones that would support PSVR, since that's where our sort of headphone surround tends to be pushed more heavily. They'd be the sort of games that have the capability baked into the engine, and since it says "select PS4 games", implying not all of them support it, it's safe to say you won't be getting that with existing games.
  
 Whether they're smart enough to apply that to non-PS4 games is another question entirely.
  


napalmhardcore said:


> This just reminded me. The old Sony headset did 7.1 virtual surround but as far as I could tell there was no box for decoding it, just a little wireless dongle. That means, either the processor was built into the headphones itself or the PS4 is sending out virtual surround sound directly. That must mean that the PS4 can send out multi-channel audio via USB (which I seem to remember them claiming it couldn't do) or it sends out a virtual surround mix.
> 
> This raises a couple of questions. 1) If the virtual surround decoder is built into the headset, why aren't there any other devices that use USB for surround sound? 2) If there isn't a processor built into the headset, aren't Sony being rear orifices by only enabling it for their headset and not any USB headset/DAC?


 
  
 I know that the PS3's wireless headsets actually needed firmware updates to work properly, which hinted at those sets having their virtual surround processed on the PS3 side of things before being transmitted through the wireless USB adapter.
  
 A typical USB audio device would have no minimum firmware version requirement and just be plug-and-play, but it also wouldn't have virtual surround since stereo is all the PS3 would give over USB.
  
 I wouldn't be surprised if Sony did the same thing on the PS4, and knowing Sony, it's rather unsurprising that they'd withhold software features to only work with their own hardware as a selling point.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> This just reminded me. The old Sony headset did 7.1 virtual surround but as far as I could tell there was no box for decoding it, just a little wireless dongle. That means, either the processor was built into the headphones itself or the PS4 is sending out virtual surround sound directly. That must mean that the PS4 can send out multi-channel audio via USB (which I seem to remember them claiming it couldn't do) or it sends out a virtual surround mix.
> 
> This raises a couple of questions. 1) If the virtual surround decoder is built into the headset, why aren't there any other devices that use USB for surround sound? 2) If there isn't a processor built into the headset, aren't Sony being rear orifices by only enabling it for their headset and not any USB headset/DAC?




PS4 does not support multi-channel output via USB. Their virtual surround headsets were just stereo headsets with fake HRTF added in. Sounded terrible.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> PS4 does not support multi-channel output via USB. Their virtual surround headsets were just stereo headsets with fake HRTF added in. Sounded terrible.




How can they claim it's 7.1 then? Either it is an extremely misleading product description, Sony are lying about the USB capabilities or they are withholding virtual surround processed console side from anyone that doesn't buy their headset. Whichever way you cut it, it makes Sony look bad.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> How can they claim it's 7.1 then? Either it is an extremely misleading product description, Sony are lying about the USB capabilities or they are withholding virtual surround processed console side from anyone that doesn't buy their headset. Whichever way you cut it, it makes Sony look bad.




Because they use a DSP algorithm designed to simulate a 7.1 environment. However they use a 2.0 source. Technically they're not lying.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Because they use a DSP algorithm designed to simulate a 7.1 environment. However they use a 2.0 source. Technically they're not lying.



Think I'm going to email Sony and enquire about it. It isn't made clear on any of the official product descriptions and I just don't see how marketing something that uses a stereo source and applies DSP can not be considered false advertising.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> CoD4:MW Remaster? PC version or go home, Infinity Ward, and if you actually do go through with that, keep the leaning, mods and dedicated servers. We don't need a repeat of the Modern Warfare 2 fiasco.




The game is actually being remastered, not just ported from PC. It's a proper remaster. Here I thought you saw the differences. They're pretty significant. Not even the PC version compares.

Oh, you mean you want a PC version of it? I bet a pretty penny that will happen. No way it won't.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> The game is actually being remastered, not just ported from PC. It's a proper remaster. Here I thought you saw the differences. They're pretty significant. Not even the PC version compares.
> 
> Oh, you mean you want a PC version of it? I bet a pretty penny that will happen. *No way it won't.*


 
 Infinity Ward be like: challenge accepted.
  
 EDIT: I finally understood why Sony removed the optical out from the PS4 slim. It is all part of the evil plan to sell more Bravias!

  - Sony, I have a very expensive *whatever* headset, how do I plug it into my new PS4 slim?
  - No worries kid, just plug it into your TV and everything will be fine and dandy!
  - But...but my TV doesn't have optical out.
  - Well, ours do. And they are really inexpensive.
  
 ^True story


----------



## lenroot77

Will be posting these "gaming things" to the classifieds tonight or tomorrow. Figure I'd offer to the gamers first pm for info.

Game One
DT990 (600ohm) -detachable cable/boom pro ready
Creative G5 

Thanks


----------



## Drizz1e

I'm using a Mixamp 2011 and my TH-X00s but I can barely get the volume past the channel imbalance before it becomes too loud. This is mainly a problem when playing older (PS2 or earlier) games that don't allow you to adjust the volume levels in-game. If I turned the main volume up higher and used the game/chat volume knob to lower it a bit, would that affect the audio quality?


----------



## Yethal

drizz1e said:


> I'm using a Mixamp 2011 and my TH-X00s but I can barely get the volume past the channel imbalance before it becomes too loud. This is mainly a problem when playing older (PS2 or earlier) games that don't allow you to adjust the volume levels in-game. If I turned the main volume up higher and used the game/chat volume knob to lower it a bit, would that affect the audio quality?


 

 Nope


----------



## lenroot77

Sony xbr43x800d or xbr49x800d

Anyone have either of these 4K televisions? Any thoughts ?


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Sony xbr43x800d or xbr49x800d
> 
> Anyone have either of these 4K televisions? Any thoughts ?




Don't know anything about 4k quality and such, but (if choosing between the two) do note the 43 only has 1 HDMI.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mad lust envy said:


> The game is actually being remastered, not just ported from PC. It's a proper remaster. Here I thought you saw the differences. They're pretty significant. Not even the PC version compares.
> 
> Oh, you mean you want a PC version of it? I bet a pretty penny that will happen. No way it won't.


 
  
 Yeah, I meant that they should release a PC version of it since I noticed that the editions of Infinite Warfare that include the CoD4 remaster are conspicuously console-exclusive.
  
 I know that Infinity Ward has catered mostly to console ever since Modern Warfare 2, but c'mon, that's not helping their reputation any.
  
 Meanwhile, we're still waiting on Treyarch to bring out those Black Ops III mod tools. That game direly needs Custom Zombies like its predecessors, given the lack of official maps.
  


yethal said:


> Infinity Ward be like: challenge accepted.
> 
> EDIT: I finally understood why Sony removed the optical out from the PS4 slim. It is all part of the evil plan to sell more Bravias!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Don't give Infinity Ward any more ideas now!
  
 As for the Bravia conspiracy theory, didn't Sony spin off that department like they did with Vaio to bring down their operating expenses? It seems like their only profitable divisions now are the PlayStation division (of course) and their camera division - if not for the Alpha-series mirrorless cams, then all their design wins with smartphone camera sensors.
  
 At any rate, it seems like the whole industry's pushing for HDMI and HDCP and all that DRM'd interface crap. Sure, there's a lot of HDTVs that have an optical-out, but as I quickly found out the hard way with the Wii U, they drop down to stereo PCM if the HDMI input's getting a LPCM 7.1 signal instead of just re-encoding it into Dolby Digital or DTS for older receivers to use. That only happens if the source's outputting Dolby Digital or DTS to begin with, which have fallback tracks for this particular scenario, and as such it just bitstreams through the TV's SPDIF-out.


----------



## Evshrug

namelesspfg said:


> I know that the PS3's wireless headsets actually needed firmware updates to work properly, which hinted at those sets having their virtual surround processed on the PS3 side of things before being transmitted through the wireless USB adapter.
> 
> ...
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if Sony did the same thing on the PS4, and knowing Sony, it's rather unsurprising that they'd withhold software features to only work with their own hardware as a selling point.







napalmhardcore said:


> This just reminded me. The old Sony headset did 7.1 virtual surround but as far as I could tell there was no box for decoding it, just a little wireless dongle. That means, either the processor was built into the headphones itself or the PS4 is sending out virtual surround sound directly.




The PS4's dedicated audio processor is AMD's TrueAudio APU, built-in to the GPU but having its own resources. It is capable of true 3D audio, just (almost) no games take advantage of it yet. Thief (maybe), and Lichdom: Battlemage (maybe, maybe PC only).

It may well be used for the 7.1 surround heard in the PS Gold headset. But those headphones feel super cheap and pretty uncomfortable. When Sony is left to process surround for themself, they have a poor track record with their receivers and HIFI radio wireless headphones.

More detail about the surround linked in the "If I Knew Then..." Thread in my signature.


----------



## Clean6eR

drizz1e said:


> I'm using a Mixamp 2011 and my TH-X00s but I can barely get the volume past the channel imbalance before it becomes too loud. This is mainly a problem when playing older (PS2 or earlier) games that don't allow you to adjust the volume levels in-game. If I turned the main volume up higher and used the game/chat volume knob to lower it a bit, would that affect the audio quality?


 
 when the new TR mixamp came out astro said about how they improved the chat balance, the new one in the center position has the game and chat at max volume then say i start swinging to the chat end the chat volume always stays at 100% but the game volume is turned down.
  
 the older model had in the center point game and chat at 50% and as you turn it to say chat the chat increases as the game decreases until chat is 100% and game is 0%.
  
 this means to get the true clean game sound on the old models you need to turn the mixer all the way to game to start then use the main volume after that to taste.
 the TR model if you have no one chatting can be left in the middle and still get 100% of the game coming through. i thought that was a clever change on astro's part, i found they noise level decreased on the TR model when compared to the model before it, but i hear the early ones are also silent but i dont have one (guess it was the 2011 model?)
  
 knowing this is how the mixing works did you notice or care that the volume was at 50% in the center? most dont. so to drop the volume how about...
  
 this is a horrible solution but on hearing you drop your in game music i figured what the hell its free to try!
  
 pc:
 play some music on you tube and set the volume to say 11 oclock then turn the mixer towards chat until the volume is bareable.
 then whatever you chat on (skype steam etc) take its output to the bottom and do a test call and inch the vloume up until you can hear it just over your youtube session.
 now your main volume will have a little more effective range and the mixer can still hopefully be wiggled a little to balance the odd chatters you find with quite or supersonic mics.
  
 PS3 (from your post i assume you have one, ps1 games):
 same as above but dont use youtube load up a game and have a session moving the volume down using the mixer knob
 in the devices? section can you not change the chat volume? if so monitor that blip sound the chat makes as you slide it up and down to fall in line with the system menu music?
  
 this is a god awful attempt to help and i sorely hope one of the other members slap me down with a better solution like some sort of resistor adaptor you can plug in but, hey its fun to fiddle. (with headphone stuff!)
  
 good to know the fostex are sensitive/loud headphones, they are what i wish i had upgraded my d2000 to instead of my d7100
  
 edit: sorry i just notice i hadnt refreshed the browser and thought this was the most recent post, plus i totally misread your post anyway (its early) Yethal beat my post in one word! my crappy suggestion might let you max the in game volume out for everything but allowing you to maintain the quick control of the mixamps pots but with a better level of consistency between you ps1/3 sessions i hope anyway.


----------



## Luckbad

I've long been using the Sennheiser HD598s as my go-to FPS headphones. When my toddler broke my ModMic, I decided to hop on Amazon to grab another. I noticed the G4me One on sale for $130 so I went ahead and grabbed one to compare to the HD598.
  
 My first impressions were fairly positive. I also have the G4me Zero, aka the most comfortable headphones ever. The G4me One is a clear step down in comfort. They don't have huge earpads with a custom angle like the Zero does.
  
 Overall placement of enemies seemed pretty close to the HD598.
  
 The stock earpads on the G4me One are not terribly large and are cloth. I ordered the earpad replacements that are intended for HD555/HD595. Those are nice velour pads and are larger. They fit the G4me One perfectly and significantly increased comfort.
  
 As a happy side effect, it also brought the G4me One pretty well in line with the HD598 for enemy placement.
  
 I'm now loving them and the HD598 is basically my toddler beater set for when he wants to hear whatever I'm hearing as I play a game.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> The PS4's dedicated audio processor is AMD's TrueAudio APU, built-in to the GPU but having its own resources. It is capable of true 3D audio, just (almost) no games take advantage of it yet. Thief (maybe), and Lichdom: Battlemage (maybe, maybe PC only).
> 
> It may well be used for the 7.1 surround heard in the PS Gold headset. But those headphones feel super cheap and pretty uncomfortable. When Sony is left to process surround for themself, they have a poor track record with their receivers and HIFI radio wireless headphones.
> 
> More detail about the surround linked in the "If I Knew Then..." Thread in my signature.


 
 I'm not really interested in the headphones, I'm more interested to know if Sony are indeed blocking off a feature that there is no good reason for not working with other devices (external DACS/USB headsets) just so they can shift their headsets.
  
 Let's say hypothetically that they were using Dolby Headphone and they output it over USB but only for their own headsets. That would make me angry as hell.
  
 If they output decent virtual surround over USB, that would immediately solve my problem of getting audio without degredation to a headphone amp so I could use hard to drive headphones. USB out, DAC and amp of my choice, USB mic or compatible mixer and XLR mic for chat, BAM done!
  
 As it is now I have a few choices but none of them are ideal and/or are expensive for what I want to achieve. I could buy an X7, run optical into that and either a) Use its own headphone output (which opinions seem divided on concerning the quality vs other amps and DACs). b) Use its line out to another amp (meaning I have the price of the X7 plus whatever amp I buy). c) Use its optical out to a DAC and then to an amp (meaning I have the rather substantial purchase of the X7, a DAC and an amp). Alternatively I could double amp (not ideal) from my Mixamp (of which I imagine the DAC doesn't compare favourably to many a stand-alone DAC) or use the stream output (which I've not heard great things about) to go to an amp.
  
 I'll be buying an amp anyway at some point, so I'll try the headphone out vs the stream port on the Mixamp, but the ability to bypass it and have virtual surround processed by the console itself would be so much better for me personally.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm not really interested in the headphones, I'm more interested to know if Sony are indeed blocking off a feature that there is no good reason for not working with other devices (external DACS/USB headsets) just so they can shift their headsets.
> 
> Let's say hypothetically that they were using Dolby Headphone and they output it over USB but only for their own headsets. That would make me angry as hell.
> 
> ...


 

 Does Amazon still have this no-questions-asked return policy? If it does just buy the Mixamp and see whether that's enough for You. If the surround accuracy is enough then just buy an amp to pair it with. The X7 is a value-product only if all of its features are utilized.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Does Amazon still have this no-questions-asked return policy? If it does just buy the Mixamp and see whether that's enough for You. If the surround accuracy is enough then just buy an amp to pair it with. The X7 is a value-product only if all of its features are utilized.


 

 I already have the Mixamp. I want to buy a pair of HD600s. Being they are renowned for scaling well, I'd like to use them for experimenting with different amps going forward (not only for gaming but music and movies too), but if I'm using a quality pair of headphones I'd prefer to have a high quality audio chain feeding them.


----------



## Yethal

Did some research on the internal architecture of the Mixamp. It seems that bypassing the internal amp is not only doable but not that difficult. Let's take a look.

  

 Images are blurry but the AKM logo is clearly visible. Moreover, by applying CSI-level image enhancement techniques (commonly known as crop and squint) we can conclude that the final digits of the product number are 86 followed by letters VT. There is only one AKM chip with those letters in that order and that chip is AK4386VT DAC.
 http://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4386VT.pdf
  

  
  
 Pins 10 and 11 are right and left channel analog output respectively. These are 2V so pretty much line-level output. I don't know whethere these can be directly soldered to a jack for a true line-out but This is interesting enough to investigate. If anybody here has any experience with DAC-building, SMD components and such please weigh in. True line-out for the Mixamp (not the noisy Stream Out port) would be helpful.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just get the Philips Dolby Headphone device.

Not only does the right version habe optical and coaxial input/outputs, it also supports DTS and is easier to mod or to replace with a good headphone amp.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> Just get the Philips Dolby Headphone device.
> 
> Not only does the right version habe optical and coaxial input/outputs, it also supports DTS and is easier to mod or to replace with a good headphone amp.



I'm not looking for a new device. I'm just really really curious whether that would work. And I'm willing to sacrifice my Mixamp to check. Who knows maybe this is a great idea?


----------



## shuto77

fegefeuer said:


> Just get the Philips Dolby Headphone device.
> 
> Not only does the right version habe optical and coaxial input/outputs, it also supports DTS and is easier to mod or to replace with a good headphone amp.




I didn't know Philips made such a device. Does it sound better than the Turtle Beach Dss2 stacked with a Fiio E12 (my new $100 gaming setup)? Is it easy to swap opamps?


----------



## shuto77

Has anyone used the Beyerdynamic T90 for gaming? It's on sale again, and I'm thinking of grabbing one.


----------



## kamieldehond

yethal said:


> Did some research on the internal architecture of the Mixamp. It seems that bypassing the internal amp is not only doable but not that difficult. Let's take a look.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Does not look like the chip is intended to be used directly as a line out. There is no mention about short circuit protection and esd protection. 
They mention 25pF max load capacitance. This is very low because 1 foot audio cable will probably exceed this maximum. Not to mention all the other parasitic capacitance. 
If you want to try it you need to add a large capacitance in serie with the output signals to block the dc output voltage. Otherwise if the amplifier you will use does not have a dc block you can damage your headphones. 

If you want to modify the mixamp to have a line out I would look at the following possibility: use the digital I2S signals that go to the AK4386VT and connect them to a spdif transmitter. This way you create a mixamp with a digital output that you can connect to any optical dac. Something like this might work http://m.ebay.com/itm/112049871117

It is just an idea. I have not looked into this idea.


----------



## Yethal

kamieldehond said:


> Does not look like the chip is intended to be used directly as a line out. There is no mention about short circuit protection and esd protection.
> They mention 25pF max load capacitance. This is very low because 1 foot audio cable will probably exceed this maximum. Not to mention all the other parasitic capacitance.
> If you want to try it you need to add a large capacitance in serie with the output signals to block the dc output voltage. Otherwise if the amplifier you will use does not have a dc block you can damage your headphones.
> 
> ...


 

 That's an even better idea but ideally the S/PDIF output would not require dedicated power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

namelesspfg said:


> Yeah, I meant that they should release a PC version of it since I noticed that the editions of Infinite Warfare that include the CoD4 remaster are conspicuously console-exclusive.




I think that's just a case of "for now."

They've been releasing all their games on PC lately, I highly, HIGHLY doubt the remaster won't be released later down the line. Probably once the game is sold seperately. Remember this, Activision pre-order exclusives are time locked. Like Nuketown dlcs that were released for a price later, etc.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I feel I've had long enough with the Cloud 2s to give an impression (though I suspect there is limited interest in them on this thread). I won't be covering the mic quality as there are examples on Youtube and I personally did not use the supplied USB soundcard (though it may come in handy one day). I'll be using limited audiophile lingo as it would feel like I'm reading translations from a phrasebook.
  
 As a gaming headset, I totally understand its popularity. Build quality, as you may know is very impressive for such a relatively inexpensive headset. The comfort is pretty good (not as comfortable as my K240 MKiis), though as is expected with closed back cans they make your ears pretty warm/hot. My ears are approximately two and three quarter inches long and approximately two inches wide (I'm not sure where they fall in the spectrum of human ear size, but I'm guessing medium large) and I feel that I'm at the upper limit of ear size that these will accommodate comfortably.
  
 Bear in mind that I have limited headphone expereience to draw on for comparison, but I do have ears and have had them for as long as I can remember, so I do know what sounds are supposed to sound like.
  
 I have heard both the K240 MKii and the Cloud 2 referred to as being neutral. They are both very different, so I can only conclude that these opinions come from people with different ideas of neutrality. To me, I would say that the K240 MKiis have a more natural and neutral sound, though at the volume I prefer to listen (fairly low) the bass could be a tad stronger.
  
 I've spent most of my time using the leatherette earpads. The overall sound is punchy and dynamic. While the bass is strong (I personally feel it could do with a touch less) it never seems to obscure other frequencies and has a lot of detail. When I tried the velour pads, this seemed to reduce the bass amount to a level I found more pleasing, however it seemed to take some of the detail with it.
  
 The mids and highs are very clear and crisp, though they are a tad hard sounding and there seems to be a touch of sibilance. As a headset for gaming (and movies too), these traits are great as you have good/great bass for rumbles and explosions and the slightly hard edged mid and treble frequencies really help you locate enemies. It is these same traits that detract from them for music listening in my opinion. S sounds can be a tad sharp and vocals generally seem to lack smoothness and warmth. Instruments and/or other sounds at particular frequencies seem to be too prominent and not sit well in the mix. The K240s on the other hand, everything sounds pretty well balanced. The K240s however don't seem to be quite as dynamic or lively which make them an easier listen (less fatiguing) but not quite as exciting.
  
 I'm glad I picked up the Cloud 2s as they offer a different experience from the K240 MKiis. I also needed a closed back headphone for when I need the isolation they provide (neighbours doing D.I.Y or mowing their lawn etc). As a gaming headset, I really think they offer good value for money, though I personally wouldn't recommend them for music alone.


----------



## Yethal

So, should we put those in the Virtual Surround Gamer Starter Pack?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> So, should we put those in the Virtual Surround Gamer Starter Pack?


 

 The wha?


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> The wha?


 

 Dunno, like a budget recommendation for newcomers. Somebody comes in to this thread and asks for a recommendation without extensive knowledge on the subject we just direct them to these headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Dunno, like a budget recommendation for newcomers. Somebody comes in to this thread and asks for a recommendation without extensive knowledge on the subject we just direct them to these headphones.




Happens almost everyday lol

But yeah, we should have a 'starter pack' for those looking for a simple answer.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Dunno, like a budget recommendation for newcomers. Somebody comes in to this thread and asks for a recommendation without extensive knowledge on the subject we just direct them to these headphones.


 

 Yeah, I'd definitely give them the thumbs up for that. They're leaps and bounds better than my old PX-21 headset and trades blows with the K240 MKiis (which are more expensive at Amazon UK and are generally well received by audio enthusiasts).


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

Hey guys, need a little help. I'm looking for a new headphone for gaming, movies, and music. I currently use AKG K702 65th Anniversary, and I love them. They're awesome for serious FPS gaming. I am looking for a more "fun" sound signature, and I'm willing to lose some of the details I currently get with my Annies. I want strong detailed bass with a warm sound signature. I have a Schiit Magni for amplification, and also wouldn't mind using my LG V10 if possible. 

I'm guessing my budget is up to $400, but if I can get something under that, I'd be happy. I have a few in mind, but would love to hear from the gang. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Kost

Did anyone ever end up trying the Turtle Beach - Elite Pro Tactical Audio Controller? It supposedly supports 7.1 with DTS headphone x which is different than dolby digital surround and is supposed to be better. I was looking around for something different yesterday and found it on amazon for like 130 dollars used.
  
https://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Controller-Superhuman-playstation-4/dp/B01EM9PMO8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1473779346&sr=1-1&keywords=Turtle+Beach+-+Elite+Pro+Tactical+Audio+Controller
  
 I recently acquired the Audio technica ATH-AD700 and while the accuracy is amazing compared to what I had, it's left me with upgraditis (currently using mixamp for gaming)


----------



## rudyae86

kost said:


> Did anyone ever end up trying the Turtle Beach - Elite Pro Tactical Audio Controller? It supposedly supports 7.1 with DTS headphone x which is different than dolby digital surround and is supposed to be better. I was looking around for something different yesterday and found it on amazon for like 130 dollars used.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Turtle-Beach-Controller-Superhuman-playstation-4/dp/B01EM9PMO8/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1473779346&sr=1-1&keywords=Turtle+Beach+-+Elite+Pro+Tactical+Audio+Controller
> 
> I recently acquired the Audio technica ATH-AD700 and while the accuracy is amazing compared to what I had, it's left me with upgraditis (currently using mixamp for gaming)




There is a youtube video on it where it shows the TAC being compared to others like Dolby Headphone.....

But it sounds like crap to my ears lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

nvm


----------



## Kost

rudyae86 said:


> There is a youtube video on it where it shows the TAC being compared to others like Dolby Headphone.....
> 
> But it sounds like crap to my ears lol


 
  
 I looked it up on youtube and I think I found the same video, you're absolutely right. The TAC was lacking in bass which is good for competitive gaming but I noticed it didn't increase the sound of footsteps and instead they were harder to hear. Oh well, thanks for the response.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

beyondmaxpower said:


> Hey guys, need a little help. I'm looking for a new headphone for gaming, movies, and music. I currently use AKG K702 65th Anniversary, and I love them. They're awesome for serious FPS gaming. I am looking for a more "fun" sound signature, and I'm willing to lose some of the details I currently get with my Annies. I want strong detailed bass with a warm sound signature. I have a Schiit Magni for amplification, and also wouldn't mind using my LG V10 if possible.
> 
> I'm guessing my budget is up to $400, but if I can get something under that, I'd be happy. I have a few in mind, but would love to hear from the gang. Thanks in advance!




I was thinking the Fostex TH-X00, Fidelio X1 (or X2 if the bass is still strong), Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, or anything else you guys may recommend. Saw MLE listed the HiFiMan 400 (but he changed to NVM). Really want a different, complementary sound to the Annie's. I'm not crazy about them for rock music. MLE, I've bought a few headphones through your guide and was really happy and got what I expected. Hoping the group can help once again. Hopefully next year once I'm working full time again, I'll buy an endgame headphone setup. Really want something fun for the games coming out this fall.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

beyondmaxpower said:


> I was thinking the Fostex TH-X00, Fidelio X1 (or X2 if the bass is still strong), Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, or anything else you guys may recommend. Saw MLE listed the HiFiMan 400 (but he changed to NVM). Really want a different, complementary sound to the Annie's. I'm not crazy about them for rock music. MLE, I've bought a few headphones through your guide and was really happy and got what I expected. Hoping the group can help once again. Hopefully next year once I'm working full time again, I'll buy an endgame headphone setup. Really want something fun for the games coming out this fall.


 

 Owned both the K7XX and X00 once upon a time. K7XX are essentially identical to the Annie's. They were good compliments IMO. X00s give you a fun, more intimate sound with gobs of solid bass. K7XX/Annie's give you the wider, "airier" sound with more accurate spatial cues (better for competitive gaming). However after getting used to the X00's sound, you might find that the K7XX/Annie sound too anemic in comparison. I know I did, and I proceeded to sell my K7XX for that very reason. But no doubt in my mind that they're good compliments. X00 is easier to amp/doesn't need it much at all. If the Magni has an output impedance that's less than 3-5 Ohms you should be fine for damping, which helps keep the X00 bass from getting loose. Should be fine with the V10. X00 cable is loooong though so beware. Haven't heard the other headphones you mention.


----------



## MonsieurNiceGuy

If you can find it, I say go for the TH-600. Wide soundstage and incredibly fun.
  
 Quote:


beyondmaxpower said:


> I was thinking the Fostex TH-X00, Fidelio X1 (or X2 if the bass is still strong), Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, or anything else you guys may recommend. Saw MLE listed the HiFiMan 400 (but he changed to NVM). Really want a different, complementary sound to the Annie's. I'm not crazy about them for rock music. MLE, I've bought a few headphones through your guide and was really happy and got what I expected. Hoping the group can help once again. Hopefully next year once I'm working full time again, I'll buy an endgame headphone setup. Really want 1something fun for the games coming out this fall.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

beyondmaxpower said:


> I was thinking the Fostex TH-X00, Fidelio X1 (or X2 if the bass is still strong), Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, or anything else you guys may recommend. Saw MLE listed the HiFiMan 400 (but he changed to NVM). Really want a different, complementary sound to the Annie's. I'm not crazy about them for rock music. MLE, I've bought a few headphones through your guide and was really happy and got what I expected. Hoping the group can help once again. Hopefully next year once I'm working full time again, I'll buy an endgame headphone setup. Really want something fun for the games coming out this fall.




DT990 Pro is like $109 (*edit: WAS?*) on newegg right now. That's a hell of a great alternative to the Annies. A steal at that price, and I don't see anything with that good a sound quality in the price range. Just be mindful of sizzly treble.

I changed from the HE400, because the HE400 is harder to get now, and probably getting it with the audeze leather-free pads puts you over budget. I'd personally also would try those Fostex X00s or whatever if I were in your shoes, considering my past experiences with similar headphones.


----------



## Change is Good

Just an FYI that all BF4 expansions are currently free (for a week) on consoles.


----------



## dukefx

Free PC version is also coming soon.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

mad lust envy said:


> DT990 Pro is like $109 (*edit: WAS?*) on newegg right now. That's a hell of a great alternative to the Annies. A steal at that price, and I don't see anything with that good a sound quality in the price range. Just be mindful of sizzly treble.
> 
> I changed from the HE400, because the HE400 is harder to get now, and probably getting it with the audeze leather-free pads puts you over budget. I'd personally also would try those Fostex X00s or whatever if I were in your shoes, considering my past experiences with similar headphones.




Thanks MLE, I think we have similar tastes in headphones. Your reviews of headphones that I've listened to are similar to mine. Think I'll look at the Dt990 Pro for now (pissed I missed that sale, may call them). Then I'll grab the TH-X00 when they drop on Massdrop. 




change is good said:


> Just an FYI that all BF4 expansions are currently free (for a week) on consoles.




Thanks for the heads up! I've downloaded most of the expansion stuff for free the past few months. Now I can grab the ones I missed!


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

Just picked up the 250 ohm DT990 Pro in all black for $129. It's a limited edition, and I love all black headphones. 

I really want the purple heart TH-X00, so now I can wait until they drop again. Thanks for the help. I love this guide and all the great people who contribute to it.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

beyondmaxpower said:


> Just picked up the 250 ohm DT990 Pro in all black for $129. It's a limited edition, and I love all black headphones.
> 
> I really want the purple heart TH-X00, so now I can wait until they drop again. Thanks for the help. I love this guide and all the great people who contribute to it.


 
 "I love this guide and all the great people who contribute to it."
  
 I feel just like the local hen from this clip.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

That's awesome, lol. It's the best place to come for advice on gaming cans. As my collection grows, I'll be able to give my opinion to help others.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

beyondmaxpower said:


> That's awesome, lol. It's the best place to come for advice on gaming cans. As my collection grows, I'll be able to give my opinion to help others.


 

 Just for the record. I realise my contribution to this thread has been relatively very small. My post was feigning pomposity for comic effect


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Have spent hours going through this superb thread - massive source of info when starting out - thanks to all those that have contributed and given me ideas to consider.  Must admit though that I'm at a crossroads of what to do.
  
 I'm a lounge gamer - sitting about 4 or 5 feet from the TV.  Have owned older Astro Mixamps in the past and also a set of A50s once.  Never been 100% happy with what I had so decided to try something different (on a budget!).  Have started with some Superlux HD681 Evo and a Zalman clip on Mic just connected to the PS4 controller.  Sounds OK but I get occasional drop outs and I know the quality could be better.  I'm pretty happy with the positional audio even in stereo so undecided about whether just to get a DAC/Amp set up or simply a Mixamp TR to go surround audio.  Does the Mixamp offer better quality audio or simply provide the surround processing and therefore sound 'different?
  
 I've also been thinking about changing my headphones to keep cabling simple - maybe some Phillips SHP9500 plus a V Moda Boom Pro?
  
 Finally, to keep things super simple - what about a wireless setup like the Lucidsound LS30 (I have Sony Wireless Stereo already and not convinced on audio quality but they are convenient) - anyone tried the Lucidsounds?
  
 Seems I'm gong around in circles trying to decide.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Darkangelpt

I have a mixamp tr xbox one edition. 
But recently due to battlefield 1 being só bad in xbox one, I pre ordered it for ps4. 
With my mixamp I managed to use the it in pc mode, and still use the mic.. 
But the problem is that no body hears me. Its so Low the sound. 
What are the better options for having better mic. 
(I use a xbox elite controller in my ps4 with adapter and 3.5 dont work) 
My setup 
Akg q701 
Modmic 4.0
Schiit magni 2.
Mixamp tr xbox one edition


----------



## AxelCloris

whitehartmart said:


> I'm a lounge gamer - sitting about 4 or 5 feet from the TV.  Have owned older Astro Mixamps in the past and also a set of A50s once.  Never been 100% happy with what I had so decided to try something different (on a budget!).  Have started with some Superlux HD681 Evo and a Zalman clip on Mic just connected to the PS4 controller.  Sounds OK but I get occasional drop outs and I know the quality could be better.  I'm pretty happy with the positional audio even in stereo so undecided about whether just to get a DAC/Amp set up or simply a Mixamp TR to go surround audio.  Does the Mixamp offer better quality audio or simply provide the surround processing and therefore sound 'different?
> 
> I've also been thinking about changing my headphones to keep cabling simple - maybe some Phillips SHP9500 plus a V Moda Boom Pro?


 
  
 Your situation sounds similar to mine. I have a wireless Mixamp 5.8 for my PS4 and I use it with the SHP9500/BoomPro combo. I went that route because I didn't want cables running across my living room floor. The Mixamp TR should be great for you since you're only a few feet away from the TV. Personally I think Dolby Headphone is a massive improvement over stereo audio for positional queues but everyone has their own opinion on the topic. The Mixamp TR specifically has EQ profiles that you can set to get the system sounding the way you want so it should be an improvement over the controller.


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> I have a mixamp tr xbox one edition.
> But recently due to battlefield 1 being só bad in xbox one, I pre ordered it for ps4.
> With my mixamp I managed to use the it in pc mode, and still use the mic..
> But the problem is that no body hears me. Its so Low the sound.
> ...



The problem isn't the mixamp(not entirely at least). ModMic requires 5V of power for proper operation which Mixamp does not provide afair. Either use a different mic or a mic preamp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can't you just plugin a Zalman Mic into the DS4 port? I don't use voicecom on consoles though so maybe that Zalman thing is nasty. 
  
 I found a good solution for the wireless woes to be using the RS 185 with a 3 to 1 optical splitter (with remote, draws power through USB thus is plugged into the X7's extra USB port)
  
 optical 1 - X-Fi Titanium Fatality (for OpenAL, CMSS-3D)
 optical 2 - X7 which gets the consoles' AC3 from the TV or SBX from the PC via USB 
 optical 3 - nothing yet
  
 this way I can use the RS 185 for gaming via PC and consoles


----------



## Darkangelpt

yethal said:


> The problem isn't the mixamp(not entirely at least). ModMic requires 5V of power for proper operation which Mixamp does not provide afair. Either use a different mic or a mic preamp.



On my pc the modmic is great. 
Maybe I need a pre amp.. Any cheap and good? 
But with my sennheiser game one the 50ohms that mic still só Low as well.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> The problem isn't the mixamp(not entirely at least). ModMic requires 5V of power for proper operation which Mixamp does not provide afair. Either use a different mic or a mic preamp.


 

 I don't believe I've ever seen a dedicated mic preamp with 3.5mm inputs. It was my understanding that any device with a 3.5mm mic input should provide the required power.


----------



## Darkangelpt

napalmhardcore said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen a dedicated mic preamp with 3.5mm inputs. It was my understanding that any device with a 3.5mm mic input should provide the required power.




Damn astro making us have a mixamp for each console.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

darkangelpt said:


> Damn astro making us have a mixamp for each console.


 

 I think part of the problem is that, despite Astro selling the Mixamp on its own, they tailor the mic input sensitivity to that of their own mic. I'm not entirely sure but I thought the new TR Mixamp allows you to adjust the sensitivity/boost in the software whereas with the older ones, if your mics sensitivity is low compared to Astro's own mic then the output will be lower than is desirable.


----------



## Darkangelpt

napalmhardcore said:


> I think part of the problem is that, despite Astro selling the Mixamp on its own, they tailor the mic input sensitivity to that of their own mic. I'm not entirely sure but I thought the new TR Mixamp allows you to adjust the sensitivity/boost in the software whereas with the older ones, if your mics sensitivity is low compared to Astro's own mic then the output will be lower than is desirable.




I tried with modmic and sennheiser one mic. 
It has a noite gate. Is set to streaming. Wich is the one u hear more


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> On my pc the modmic is great.
> Maybe I need a pre amp.. Any cheap and good?
> But with my sennheiser game one the 50ohms that mic still só Low as well.


 
 PC input usually provides the required power (except for laptopts with trrs connecttions)


napalmhardcore said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen a dedicated mic preamp with 3.5mm inputs. It was my understanding that any device with a 3.5mm mic input should provide the required power.


 

 Electret microphones (such as the ModMic) require 5V power input (ModMic uses the second pin of the TRS plug for that) in order to power the amp inside the capsule. Regular mic inputs on motherboard soundcard usually provide those. Only devices that have problem with powering the ModMic are the Mixamp and laptops with combines phones/mic combo jack (most macbooks do that)


----------



## Darkangelpt

yethal said:


> PC input usually provides the required power (except for laptopts with trrs connecttions)
> 
> 
> Electret microphones (such as the ModMic) require 5V power input (ModMic uses the second pin of the TRS plug for that) in order to power the amp inside the capsule. Regular mic inputs on motherboard soundcard usually provide those. Only devices that have problem with powering the ModMic are the Mixamp and laptops with combines phones/mic combo jack (most macbooks do that)




Im going to try a mixamp pro 2013 amd will see. 
What are other options I have?


----------



## Yethal

darkangelpt said:


> Im going to try a mixamp pro 2013 amd will see.
> What are other options I have?


 

 I have the 2013 version of the mixamp and the mic input is not great either. You can always solder a power supply yourself. 5v can be provided by a USB port, all You need to do is route that power to the second pin of the trs jack on the microphone.
  
 Or do something like this: http://www.subatomicglue.com/mintymic/


----------



## Change is Good

So I briefly tried the For Honor alpha. Wow, what a spam fest. Endurance really needs tweaking.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

I must admit that my mic performance on consoles has been poor since abandoning my PX-21 headset (there may be better mics out there but at least it was hassle free and loud enough).
  
 Between the Mixamp's noise gate problem on PS4 (requiring the PS4 chat cable workaround) and low mic input sensitivity/output volume, the whole thing is a bit of a headache. I so rarely require my mic on console nowadays that it isn't a big issue for me personally (last PS4 game I played with a friend online was Far Cry 4 when it came out), but if I do get into something in future I'm going to be looking for an alternative method.
  
 I already own a couple of SM58s, so I may just end up getting a compatible mixer and a Rode boom arm. The quality should be better than a headset mic, though it will lack the convenience. A lav mic is another possibility, though in the increasingly unlikely event of me needing chat over PS3, I'd be at the mercy of the Mixamp again.


----------



## shuto77

I wonder if there are any avrs available now that sound good with headphones. Sony's decision to kill the optical input is inconvenient.


----------



## Darkangelpt

My brother wich live in other country is buying triton katana. Any feedback in that? 
Only saw on review.


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Just an FYI that all BF4 expansions are currently free (for a week) on consoles.



Free as in you can play it this weekend, or free as in you can "buy" them for $0 and play them for as long as you want?



darkangelpt said:


> Im going to try a mixamp pro 2013 amd will see.
> What are other options I have?



I don't disagree with Yethal, the modmic may simply need phantom power. But I can think of two options to try out:

1.) PS4 settings > Devices > Microphone Gain.
Try turning up the gain a bit, the PS4 plays back the mic so you can hear for yourself how loud you are. (Mic Monitoring!!! <--- inside joke)

2.) I use a separate, USB Mic.
Works great. I tried just plugging a lapel mic straight into the controller's port, it didn't work until I plugged a Mic/Headphone splitter adapter into the controller first. And then, people could hear me but I couldn't hear anyone else, because the chat audio was being piped through the controller port too. I could hear everything when I wired the controller back into my mixer, but then I had a spiderweb of wires everywhere and I gave up. USB mic plugs straight into the PS4, it listens, and all the party chat just plays through the PS4's optical/HDMI. You'd be giving up on the ModMic that way, but OH WELL, better than a Zalman Mic.


----------



## lenroot77

I received an email that stated cloud city was free thru the 18th(weekend).


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> I received an email that stated cloud city was free thru the 18th(weekend).



But that's Battle*front*.


----------



## lenroot77

Ha m





evshrug said:


> But that's Battle*front*.




Ha my bad... that's me not paying enough attention... oops oops oops!


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

Received the DT990 Pro today. I've gotta say that this headphone is unreal good for $129 for the limited edition all black version I ordered. This destroys the Ath-m50x that I paid $20 more for. Now granted I bought the 50x for a different purpose, but I can't imagine anything in this price range comparing to these. Very pleasantly surprised to say the least. My LG V10 drives them with no problem. Little EQ, and they are exactly the rock headphones I wanted. Looking forward to trying them out with gaming. That won't be till next week, as I'm at my girls place till Monday. 

Very good bass for an open can. Certainly not the soundstage of my Annies, but for rock/metal, it's no issue for me. I think these will fill my desire of a more fun headphone. Thanks guys, I'll have to hang around here more often.


----------



## shuto77

beyondmaxpower said:


> Received the DT990 Pro today. I've gotta say that this headphone is unreal good for $129 for the limited edition all black version I ordered. This destroys the Ath-m50x that I paid $20 more for. Now granted I bought the 50x for a different purpose, but I can't imagine anything in this price range comparing to these. Very pleasantly surprised to say the least. My LG V10 drives them with no problem. Little EQ, and they are exactly the rock headphones I wanted. Looking forward to trying them out with gaming. That won't be till next week, as I'm at my girls place till Monday.
> 
> Very good bass for an open can. Certainly not the soundstage of my Annies, but for rock/metal, it's no issue for me. I think these will fill my desire of a more fun headphone. Thanks guys, I'll have to hang around here more often.




Yes, they're really good for that price. If I had $130, and could only buy one headphone for anything, this would be up there for me.


----------



## Evshrug

The DT990 was originally spec'd as a competitor to the HD650! The difference between the Pro and Premium models is clamp pressure (some say pad material is different). MLE has had like... 5 different DT990 headphones.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

shuto77 said:


> Yes, they're really good for that price. If I had $130, and could only buy one headphone for anything, this would be up there for me.




MLE said they were just on sale at Newegg for $108. I missed the sale, but would have wanted the all black no matter what. These things kick some ass for sure! Dying to game with them, I already know they'll be great, but the bass has me very excited for sure.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Free as in you can play it this weekend, or free as in you can "buy" them for $0 and play them for as long as you want?
> I don't disagree with Yethal, the modmic may simply need phantom power. But I can think of two options to try out:
> 
> 1.) PS4 settings > Devices > Microphone Gain.
> ...


 

 Firstly, bump on the BF question.
  
 Secondly, I thought they updated it so that you could route the chat audio to TV/speaker (in this case, out via optical and back into whatever device you're using). A USB mic does seem to be the easiest way to get audio into the the PS4. I was looking to see if anyone did a USB lav mic. I found a couple but there weren't many reviews, so I have no idea what the quality is like.
  
 Being my environment isn't exactly silent (though when I get my new PC it will be significantly improved) so I may be better off going with a cardioid dynamic mic that an omni condenser. Another reason why I'm leaning towards using a mixer and an SM58.


----------



## lenroot77

beyondmaxpower said:


> MLE said they were just on sale at Newegg for $108. I missed the sale, but would have wanted the all black no matter what. These things kick some ass for sure! Dying to game with them, I already know they'll be great, but the bass has me very excited for sure.






Anyone interested in these(600 ohm) Boom pro ready! 
Pm me!


----------



## Change is Good

It's free to own.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

change is good said:


> It's free to own.


 

 Ah. Just went to the PS Store and it turns out I already have premium anyway. Silly me.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> *Secondly, I thought they updated it so that you could route the chat audio to TV/speaker (in this case, out via optical and back into whatever device you're using).* A USB mic does seem to be the easiest way to get audio into the the PS4. I was looking to see if anyone did a USB lav mic. I found a couple but there weren't many reviews, so I have no idea what the quality is like.
> 
> Being my environment isn't exactly silent (though when I get my new PC it will be significantly improved) so I may be better off going with a cardioid dynamic mic that an omni condenser. Another reason why I'm leaning towards using a mixer and an SM58.


 
 Yup, works perfectly now.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Yup, works perfectly now.


 

 That's good to know. I suppose it does take away the benefit of using your device to blend between chat and game audio. Might be a deal breaker for some. I really should go online with a friend and test some of this stuff out. When you don't use it often, any shortcomings aren't as obvious compared to when using it regularly.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> That's good to know. I suppose it does take away the benefit of using your device to blend between chat and game audio. Might be a deal breaker for some. I really should go online with a friend and test some of this stuff out. When you don't use it often, any shortcomings aren't as obvious compared to when using it regularly.


 

 There was a guy on this thread who used this device: https://www.amazon.com/rolls-MX22S-Mini-Rack-Source/dp/B007EY7MH4 to mix between game and chat audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah I really enjoyed my time with the 990s. Like the HE400, I always go back to them.

I feel the 990 Pro is the easiest of the 990s to listen to. They're the warmest of the three.

I hardly use headphones outside of work nowadays, but I still appreciate them when I do. If there was a truly high end clip on, I'd be all over it. The Yuin G1A didn't pan out for me.


----------



## dukefx

lenroot77 said:


> Just finished making my boom pro adapter and.......IT WORKS!


 
 I finally got my mini-XLR to 3.5mm TRS adapter.


----------



## sharpz44

I owned the Tritton Katana and sent it back, the sound cuts outs for a split second frequently,not sure if it was due to interference, the sound quality is not to bad and a good idea but the soundstage is narrow, you could get them from amazon and test them out and send back if not to your taste


----------



## GVictim

Hi all, was about to fork out for the A40TR with MixAmp ProTR as my standard xbox headset broke and I was looking for a replacement to give me a competitive edge whilst gaming. Note that I am an Xbox One gamer & that the only 'competitive' games I currently play are Battlefront & BO3(purely zombies) but will definitely be playing Gears of War 4 in the future, perhaps BF1 too. Luckily I came across this thread which I have been studying this for a number of days now, looking for the ideal headset to suit my needs, the AD700/AD700X, PC360, HD598 and KG701 all sounded perfect for my me, although I was quite put off by the supposed inability to hear teammates without an external amp on the KG701, so after some thought I decided the AD700 was probably my best choice regarding budget (around $325- $400). I did some further research on what to pair them up with in order to utilise its virtual surround sound capabilities and found a thread on reddit where a guy swears by a DSS + XBONE Stereo headset adapter+ y splitter cable + attachable boom mic, would this be a good combination for my needs? Would i also be able to sufficiently hear friends/teammates over the game audio? Any feedback would be much appreciated. 

I've also read surprisingly good things about the superlux evo 681 and was wondering if any of you could comment on that?


----------



## Clean6eR

gvictim said:


> Hi all, was about to fork out for the A40TR with MixAmp ProTR as my standard xbox headset broke and I was looking for a replacement to give me a competitive edge whilst gaming. Note that I am an Xbox One gamer & that the only 'competitive' games I currently play are Battlefront & BO3(purely zombies) but will definitely be playing Gears of War 4 in the future, perhaps BF1 too. Luckily I came across this thread which I have been studying this for a number of days now, looking for the ideal headset to suit my needs, the AD700/AD700X, PC360, HD598 and KG701 all sounded perfect for my me, although I was quite put off by the supposed inability to hear teammates without an external amp on the KG701, so after some thought I decided the AD700 was probably my best choice regarding budget (around $325- $400). I did some further research on what to pair them up with in order to utilise its virtual surround sound capabilities and found a thread on reddit where a guy swears by a DSS + XBONE Stereo headset adapter+ y splitter cable + attachable boom mic, would this be a good combination for my needs? Would i also be able to sufficiently hear friends/teammates over the game audio? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
> 
> I've also read surprisingly good things about the superlux evo 681 and was wondering if any of you could comment on that?


 
the ad700 (i have ath-adg1) have insane levels of detail and sound very open, detail is very present and airy. they are GREAT for competitive gaming. when it comes to watch tv programs with them their VERY present treble can come off as sibilant but in games that allows factors like rain drops to really shine.
  
other wide sounding headsets are the hd800 (stupid price) t70,dt770,COP(all impressive detail and stage for closed headsets) d7100(maybe too fun in the bass but surprisingly wide for closed cans) k701( i would say as wide as ad700 but something kinda more eerie about these, more holographic sounding, i fell in love with them, gaming wise though the ad700 could be said to pinpoint locations better but the k701 seems slightly bigger, maybe not, its VERY tough to call between these two but i would say they sound quite different in how they paint the sound stage but both are painting on the same size canvas!)
  
you mention the superlux, i only have the 668. the drivers i think were used in the qpad qh 85/95(have them too) and the kingston hyperx clouds (have these too!) for the money the superlux or others i listed sound fantastic, they are also damn detailed, they have much more of a smack on the bass, they don't sound natural, they sound fun! they are sadly not as wide or open sounding as the ad700,k701 or even the beyers i mentioned. but man they are good.
  
kingston brought out a new headset called the revolvers, they sound just like the clouds with all that fun factor and ridiculous detail for the money but they angled the drivers, this has helped them get a little more width to the sound, they are an improvement and the mic is also better. i don't think they are the same drivers as the others but very similar. The down point to them is the headband and brittle plastic combine to make a twangy headphone, I dont mean they sound twangy when using them but if you touch them when on your ears they then twang! (the headband wobbles like crazy!)
  
  
 from the superlux or ad700:
  
for competitive gaming id go ad700 first
  
if i only had that one headset id find they grate too much on tv shows so id go cloud revolvers next


----------



## Clean6eR

sharpz44 said:


> I owned the Tritton Katana and sent it back, the sound cuts outs for a split second frequently,not sure if it was due to interference, the sound quality is not to bad and a good idea but the soundstage is narrow, you could get them from amazon and test them out and send back if not to your taste


 
i have them too, i find they sound AWFUL, they make a lot of noise and the mic is too far from my mouth and it fails to pick my voice up well, the non compressed idea is a joke, it only accepts 48K. its just that it takes lpcm and not dolby, that is an improvement but i was hoping for like the full fat 192. I can’t be bothered to hook them up again but i think they also only accepted 5.1 not 7.1 (really unsure of this) regardless the very poor drivers and noisy rf of these headphones TOTALLY negate the benefit of lpcm from hdmi as i can't hear any improvement or any details due to the issues mentioned.
  
i was VERY disappointed with these, the feature list is killer but the product is just VERY low quality, if only they made a wired model that we could put other cans on. (the tritton 720+ amp is actually really quite good driver, the cmedia chip for chat I found very clean and clear)


----------



## Yethal

gvictim said:


> Hi all, was about to fork out for the A40TR with MixAmp ProTR as my standard xbox headset broke and I was looking for a replacement to give me a competitive edge whilst gaming. Note that I am an Xbox One gamer & that the only 'competitive' games I currently play are Battlefront & BO3(purely zombies) but will definitely be playing Gears of War 4 in the future, perhaps BF1 too. Luckily I came across this thread which I have been studying this for a number of days now, looking for the ideal headset to suit my needs, the AD700/AD700X, PC360, HD598 and KG701 all sounded perfect for my me, although I was quite put off by the supposed inability to hear teammates without an external amp on the KG701, so after some thought I decided the AD700 was probably my best choice regarding budget (around $325- $400). I did some further research on what to pair them up with in order to utilise its virtual surround sound capabilities and found a thread on reddit where a guy swears by a DSS + XBONE Stereo headset adapter+ y splitter cable + attachable boom mic, would this be a good combination for my needs? Would i also be able to sufficiently hear friends/teammates over the game audio? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
> 
> I've also read surprisingly good things about the superlux evo 681 and was wondering if any of you could comment on that?


 

 One thing You really need to ask yourself before purchasing a virtual surround device is: "How much do I value convenience?". Xbox One is pretty terrible as far as chat connections goes. The only device that offers convenient chat connectivity is the Mixamp TR which uses USB for chat audio and not the 3.5mm jack on the controller. All other devices need to be connected to the 3.5mm jack which creates a bit of a cable mess. Therefore, if You value convenience go for the TR. Otherwise, go for the DSS
  
 As for the headphones, all the models You've mentioned will be fine. Keep in mind though:
  

AD700 has a hardwired cable and will require modification if You want to use a microphone such as the BoomPro or Custom Headset Gear
PC360 comes with a microphone permanently attached which is mildly annoying when the microphone is not in use
HD598 and K701 require an adapter to connect to a BoomPro or CHG bu it's doable
  
 Again, the question here is how much You value convenience. Because trust me, having one cable going from Your body to the Mixamp is much better than having 3 (headphones, microphone and chat).


----------



## sharpz44

gvictim said:


> Hi all, was about to fork out for the A40TR with MixAmp ProTR as my standard xbox headset broke and I was looking for a replacement to give me a competitive edge whilst gaming. Note that I am an Xbox One gamer & that the only 'competitive' games I currently play are Battlefront & BO3(purely zombies) but will definitely be playing Gears of War 4 in the future, perhaps BF1 too. Luckily I came across this thread which I have been studying this for a number of days now, looking for the ideal headset to suit my needs, the AD700/AD700X, PC360, HD598 and KG701 all sounded perfect for my me, although I was quite put off by the supposed inability to hear teammates without an external amp on the KG701, so after some thought I decided the AD700 was probably my best choice regarding budget (around $325- $400). I did some further research on what to pair them up with in order to utilise its virtual surround sound capabilities and found a thread on reddit where a guy swears by a DSS + XBONE Stereo headset adapter+ y splitter cable + attachable boom mic, would this be a good combination for my needs? Would i also be able to sufficiently hear friends/teammates over the game audio? Any feedback would be much appreciated.
> 
> I've also read surprisingly good things about the superlux evo 681 and was wondering if any of you could comment on that?


 

 I  currently use the AD700 when playing comp and have paired it with a Astro 2015 Mix amp, I found that the sound was better than using a DSS or the DSS2, I also use the Game zero for non comp playing and they sound great but not as much detail as the AD700, I owned the Astro A40TR but the sound was terrible (ps4) think the xbox one version may be different, so you could consider just the mix amp with the AD700 with a mic which is easy to attach to them. good luck


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> i have them too, i find they sound AWFUL, they make a lot of noise and the mic is too far from my mouth and it fails to pick my voice up well, the non compressed idea is a joke, it only accepts 48K. its just that it takes lpcm and not dolby, that is an improvement but i was hoping for like the full fat 192. I can’t be bothered to hook them up again but i think they also only accepted 5.1 not 7.1 (really unsure of this) regardless the very poor drivers and noisy rf of these headphones TOTALLY negate the benefit of lpcm from hdmi as i can't hear any improvement or any details due to the issues mentioned.
> 
> i was VERY disappointed with these, the feature list is killer but the product is just VERY low quality, if only they made a wired model that we could put other cans on. (the tritton 720+ amp is actually really quite good driver, the cmedia chip for chat I found very clean and clear)


 
 Why would You expect a gaming headset to support 192k? It was made to play low-quality video game samples and not the Best of HDTracks collection.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Why would You expect a gaming headset to support 192k? It was made to play low-quality video game samples and not the Best of HDTracks collection.


 
yea i know, i just hoped ps4 output 7.1 lpcm 192 from hdmi and that we might get to access or process that feed. but im not even sure if ps4 games output 192 during gaming. (but also how about for films, they use higher sample rates, might be nice to use for that purpose?)
  
I'm always hoping and open to improvements! plus the x7 supports it (albeit not during surround gaming and at like 4 times the price) but with time i thought it might be trickling into more mainstream products?
  
seems almost all games only do 48
  
what you say is spot on, to be honest i struggle to tell the difference between 192 and 48 when downsampling a sacd on my hd800/hdvd800 setup.
  
what with the dolby and dts encoders taking 48k i thought or hoped that a higher bitrate stream might give those techs more to play with and the final output might improve in a noticeable way.
  
i got overwatch and its atmos setting sounds good, wonder if that's also stuck at 48. i send it to the x7 spdif out so a dac can decode and it just reports the sample rate i set it to in windows mixer (96) but that tells me next to nothing about the source.
  
its true i went into the katana expecting too much but when i take a step back and think about their price and performance I'm still left underwhelmed by them, the noise floor and step back in mic performance are big hits. the feature set and convince however is what raised my hopes.


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> yea i know, i just hoped ps4 output 7.1 lpcm 192 from hdmi and that we might get to access or process that feed. but im not even sure if ps4 games output 192 during gaming. (but also how about for films, they use higher sample rates, might be nice to use for that purpose?)
> 
> I'm always hoping and open to improvements! plus the x7 supports it (albeit not during surround gaming and at like 4 times the price) but with time i thought it might be trickling into more mainstream products?
> 
> ...


 

 Even stereo 192k support is redundant in most gear due to low demand and low market share of the 192k content. Even HDTracks has like 6 albums in 192k or so. 7.1 192k is just silly. Even Blu-Ray movies use 48k sampling rate.
 Most audio samples in video games are 48k. There's really no point in going higher, your average razer/steelseries sporting gamer won't tell the difference.
  
 I played Overwatch during the free weekend and I fell in love in this game so I bought it. Probably the last FPS I will ever buy.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Even stereo 192k support is redundant in most gear due to low demand and low market share of the 192k content. Even HDTracks has like 6 albums in 192k or so. 7.1 192k is just silly. Even Blu-Ray movies use 48k sampling rate.
> Most audio samples in video games are 48k. There's really no point in going higher, your average razer/steelseries sporting gamer won't tell the difference.
> 
> I played Overwatch during the free weekend and I fell in love in this game so I bought it. Probably the last FPS I will ever buy.


 
where did i put my NOS dac... 
  
just in case anyone is in the uk i got overwatch for 27 pounds from game.
  
i also installed that heroes of the storm, that's kinda good too! blizzard make a good game.
  
i have an issue with my x7 that if i play a 44.1 flac to the x7 on loud sections i noticed a slight break up when not in direct mode, i then plugged in my external dac and found the x7 was spitting out 48 not 44.1, to fix this i got my foobar spitting direct to the spdif which my dac then sees as 44.1, happy me. so my new setup is x7 hooked to pc and ps4 including the bluetooth thingy for ps4, then i run optical to an ad1955 dac then on to a MF V90 BHA. this lets me listen to my music well but also all my gaming is setup with no unplugging anything needed.
  
so i want to upgrade my dac and amp, im thinking a ha5000 for the amp but the dac is what im after recomendations for.
  
i need an optical one but has anyone tried a multibit one? i have a couple of NOS dacs but they are old and i feel my ad1955 dac is cleaner clearer and more open sounding, is the schiit modi 2 m worth picking up to try the multibit topology?
  
i know that not any two dac chips sound the same when implemented differently (so simply saying NOS dacs are warm with good mids but no detail and R2R are sterile and cold is totally stupid and wrong), so any recommendations for good dacs with optical that are very open and wide sounding in nature, under say 500 pounds (given current exchange rate that's close enough to be 500 us dollars too  )


----------



## Yethal

clean6er said:


> i have an issue with my x7 that if i play a 44.1 flac to the x7 on loud sections i noticed a slight break up when not in direct mode, i then plugged in my external dac and found the x7 was spitting out 48 not 44.1, to fix this i got my foobar spitting direct to the spdif which my dac then sees as 44.1, happy me. so my new setup is x7 hooked to pc and ps4 including the bluetooth thingy for ps4, then i run optical to an ad1955 dac then on to a MF V90 BHA. this lets me listen to my music well but also all my gaming is setup with no unplugging anything needed.
> so i want to upgrade my dac and amp, im thinking a ha5000 for the amp but the dac is what im after recomendations for.
> 
> i need an optical one but has anyone tried a multibit one? i have a couple of NOS dacs but they are old and i feel my ad1955 dac is cleaner clearer and more open sounding, is the schiit modi 2 m worth picking up to try the multibit topology?
> ...


 
 Switching over to WASAPI or ASIO should resolve the resampling problem. As for multibit DACs, check out Schiit Audio products. They build their dacs using chips used in missile guidance systems.


----------



## Clean6eR

yethal said:


> Switching over to WASAPI or ASIO should resolve the resampling problem. As for multibit DACs, check out Schiit Audio products. They build their dacs using chips used in missile guidance systems.


 
 yea i was using waspi to the x7, not in direct mode so that the sound got piped out to the optical dac and thats when it outputs 48k, changing to WASPI x7 spdif gets it to send 44.1k and sounds great.
  
 so i found thats how ill leave it, all the games will go through the x7 circuit and spit 48k and my music will get sent directly to the spdif so i dont hear any crackling on louder passages. and leaving my new dacs and amps free to perform well at what they do well at.
  
 the modi 2 m looks like one ill pick up to try (cheapest i've seen a multibit dac), thanks for the tip off.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

clean6er said:


> yea i was using waspi to the x7, not in direct mode so that the sound got piped out to the optical dac and thats when it outputs 48k, changing to WASPI x7 spdif gets it to send 44.1k and sounds great.
> 
> so i found thats how ill leave it, all the games will go through the x7 circuit and spit 48k and my music will get sent directly to the spdif so i dont hear any crackling on louder passages. and leaving my new dacs and amps free to perform well at what they do well at.
> 
> the modi 2 m looks like one ill pick up to try (cheapest i've seen a multibit dac), thanks for the tip off.


 

 I'm curious to hear opinions on the Modi 2 multibit too. I tried searching for reviews a couple of days ago and didn't find much. I think people might be posting in the same thread that it was announced in and is generally discussed. I was tired at the time and couldn't be bothered to trawl through the thread trying to find opinions from owners.


----------



## GVictim

Thanks for the quick replies! Think I will pair up the ad700x (much difference between these and the original ad700?) with the A40TR MixAmp. Would it be just a case of getting a separate mic & y splitter cable as well? Thanks again

EDIT: hearing good things about pairing up the 2015 MixAmp with the newer variant of the PC360- the G4ME ONE. Would a setup like that negate the need to have a wire plugged into my controller as I have the older XB1 controller that annoyingly has no jack comnection


----------



## Yethal

gvictim said:


> Thanks for the quick replies! Think I will pair up the ad700x (much difference between these and the original ad700?) with the A40TR MixAmp. Would it be just a case of getting a separate mic & y splitter cable as well? Thanks again
> 
> EDIT: hearing good things about pairing up the 2015 MixAmp with the newer variant of the PC360- the G4ME ONE. Would a setup like that negate the need to have a wire plugged into my controller as I have the older XB1 controller that annoyingly has no jack comnection



Only TR mixamps use usb for chat audio.


----------



## GVictim

Thanks for your input, think i will pair up the GAME ONE with the MixAmp TR to minimise on wire clutter, i have a white control too so at least i'll be colour coordinated!
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




 I take it i'll also need an optical cable to go from my MixAmp to the xbox?


----------



## Clean6eR

gvictim said:


> Thanks for your input, think i will pair up the GAME ONE with the MixAmp TR to minimise on wire clutter, i have a white control too so at least i'll be colour coordinated!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 if you were totally into the ad700x but wanted the less clutter of the one cable that the zero's give you. you might want to google ath-adg1x. if money is not a concern they are an over priced ad700x with good quality mic attached


----------



## Yethal

gvictim said:


> Thanks for your input, think i will pair up the GAME ONE with the MixAmp TR to minimise on wire clutter, i have a white control too so at least i'll be colour coordinated!
> 
> I take it i'll also need an optical cable to go from my MixAmp to the xbox?



All cables are provided with the mixamp.


----------



## GVictim

thanks both for your input, i did check out the ath-adg1x but they were quite over budget. Managed to get the Game One & 2015 MixAmp for $325 off Amazon with next day delivery. Will post feedback from using them on BO3, BF1 & GOW4 in here.
 Thanks again


----------



## Clean6eR

gvictim said:


> thanks both for your input, i did check out the ath-adg1x but they were quite over budget. Managed to get the Game One & 2015 MixAmp for $325 off Amazon with next day delivery. Will post feedback from using them on BO3, BF1 & GOW4 in here.
> Thanks again


 
 That should sound pretty damn fine! i got a 2015 mixamp and the older pc363. they are pretty sweet setup and music even sounds very enjoyable on them. hope you enjoy them!


----------



## Change is Good

So ummmm, yeah, YouTube is ruining gaming (or at least Battlefield and other shooters). The new UI has these new sections where they promote YouTubers teaching how to play the game, except it's mostly only CoD infantry style run and gun (NOT the way you play BF successfully). This goes to show how much influence the wrong crowd has on developers. This was a game that some preferred (including myself) because it was NOT CoD.

I thoroughly enjoyed the For Honor alpha despite the stamina needing some tweaking. Taking objectives while not running around like chickens with our heads cut off was rather refreshing, something I haven't felt since first switching to BF from CoD. Shooters are just a lost cause, this generation (except Garden Warfare ).


----------



## octiceps

Seems pretty narrow-minded to dictate that there are right and wrong ways of playing a game like BF just because you don't like a certain playstyle?


----------



## Change is Good

octiceps said:


> Seems pretty narrow-minded to dictate that there are right and wrong ways of playing a game like BF just because you don't like a certain playstyle?




It's a playstyle that ruins what made Battlefield good, teamwork. I understand people playing to their strengths, but that's not my issue. Promoting this playstyle in the main menu of on an objective and squad focused game is what I (and many others in the BF forums) have a problem with.

But you're right, I'm just being narrow-minded :rolleyes:


----------



## octiceps

There's room in the game to accommodate different tastes. It's not so black-and-white.


----------



## Change is Good

octiceps said:


> There's room in the game to accommodate different tastes. It's not so black-and-white.




There is... but we live in a black-and-white, technology does everything for you, society. These videos are teaching newcomers "hey, here's how you play" while solo-ing and never sticking with their squad. Yes, there's room in the game to grow... but don't promote crap YouTube videos on the main damn menu lol.


----------



## Change is Good

If it's fillers the new BF UI needs, then something educational (as someone in the BF forums suggested) like "on this day of such and such year, such and such happened." Or how about an actual tutorial of how to play the game?

Better than "hey it's so and so, here, and today we are going to teach you how to play BF by never playing the objective with your squad." Haha


----------



## octiceps

I've no problem with videos that teach game mechanics and how to improve individual skill, since better players make better squads make better teams. Maybe you weren't active during the heyday of teamwork driven Battlefield, which was BF2 and BF2142 on PC.


----------



## Change is Good

octiceps said:


> I've no problem with videos that teach game mechanics and how to improve individual skill, since better players make better squads make better teams. Maybe you weren't active during the heyday of teamwork driven Battlefield, which was BF2 and BF2142 on PC.


 
  
 Those better players only make better squads if they actually play the damn objective, not worrying about their KDR (which is what most of this new gen of gamers care about). Your argument is the same as mine, except you are defending videos that forget to mention the important part of playing this franchise, teamwork.


----------



## Change is Good

But @octiceps is a PC Elitist and I'm just a console peasant who's platform preference is ruining the performance quality of PC games... so what the hell do I know?


----------



## octiceps

No I totally understand what you're saying. I think the way teamwork has been designed out of Battlefield after 2142 (blame the devs for that) is as much at fault as the oft-cited CoD/CS:GO generation of players.


----------



## Yethal

Change, have You tried Overwatch? I bought it on Friday and fell in love with it immediately.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Change, have You tried Overwatch? I bought it on Friday and fell in love with it immediately.


 
  
 Overwatch is okay in my books, not to fond of paying $50-60 (price in my country) for that game. There is "Paladins", exact copy but F2P which also not my cup of tea but you guys can have a look in steam


----------



## Change is Good

octiceps said:


> No I totally understand what you're saying. I think the way teamwork has been designed out of Battlefield after 2142 (blame the devs for that) is as much at fault as the oft-cited CoD/CS:GO generation of players.




Thing is, the devs have done so because (to them) winning over that crowd is looked upon as a success. BF1 is mediocre, at best, but DICE/EA thinks it's their best yet for that sole reason. Either they are unaware of what the og BF vets think, or they just don't care ($$$).




yethal said:


> Change, have You tried Overwatch? I bought it on Friday and fell in love with it immediately.




As our fellow member, above, mentioned... I'm waiting for it to go on sale in the PS Store. It was $10 off recently, but hardly a sale worth me jumping on. Soon as it hits $30 I'm on it.


----------



## Change is Good

I did manage to pick up Doom on sale, recently, but not for its multiplayer. Haven't had a chance to play it much, however, because of schoolwork and that For Honor alpha. By the way, if you like Dark Souls PvP you should check For Honor out when it's in Beta. Watching gameplay seems like it's boring, but once you play it for yourself you'll feel how rewarding the combat is. Taking an objective in the middle of a sword battle is intense!


----------



## nicobombai

change is good said:


> As our fellow member, above, mentioned... I'm waiting for it to go on sale in the PS Store. It was $10 off recently, but hardly a sale worth me jumping on. Soon as it hits $30 I'm on it.


 
  
 If it is around $20-30, i think it will sell like hot cakes given the current situation. There are many people copying blatantly the theme, heroes, modes etc. Not saying that OW is original but you get the point.
  


change is good said:


> I did manage to pick up Doom on sale, recently, but not for its multiplayer. Haven't had a chance to play it much, however, because of schoolwork and that For Honor alpha. By the way, if you like Dark Souls PvP you should check For Honor out when it's in Beta. Watching gameplay seems like it's boring, but once you play it for yourself you'll feel how rewarding the combat is. Taking an objective in the middle of a sword battle is intense!


 
  
 I applied For Honor beta, wanna try it out. BF1 was okay, I liked bf3-4 rather than that but i do want a remake of BF2 if possible with no changes just overhaul of graphics. AND please release Quake earlier please, my hands are itching over here xD


----------



## NamelessPFG

Did anyone else here notice Halo 5: Forge suddenly popping up on the Windows Store? That's something I certainly didn't expect to see after what feels like an entire decade of Xbox exclusivity for the mainline titles.
  
 It's free, it seems sensibly optimized for KB+M, has a load of graphics options to tweak (though you're stuck at 16:9 and 60 FPS), and there's enough maps included that it really doesn't look like they withheld anything outside of the singleplayer/co-op campaign, or for that matter, held most of the maps back behind some damn season pass. And before you ask, no, Blood Gulch isn't in there.
  
 Yet nobody else seems to have noticed this release, peculiarly enough. I'm guessing it's because of how Microsoft screwed themselves over with PC gamers and UWP earlier that nobody's paying attention to their latest attempt to win back the crowd.


----------



## Yethal

namelesspfg said:


> Did anyone else here notice Halo 5: Forge suddenly popping up on the Windows Store? That's something I certainly didn't expect to see after what feels like an entire decade of Xbox exclusivity for the mainline titles.
> 
> It's free, it seems sensibly optimized for KB+M, has a load of graphics options to tweak (though you're stuck at 16:9 and 60 FPS), and there's enough maps included that it really doesn't look like they withheld anything outside of the singleplayer/co-op campaign, or for that matter, held most of the maps back behind some damn season pass. And before you ask, no, Blood Gulch isn't in there.
> 
> Yet nobody else seems to have noticed this release, peculiarly enough. I'm guessing it's because of how Microsoft screwed themselves over with PC gamers and UWP earlier that nobody's paying attention to their latest attempt to win back the crowd.


 

 There's also no matchmaking or dedicated servers. Custom games only. However it's nice that PC players finally get some sort of Halo game to play.


----------



## octiceps

namelesspfg said:


> Did anyone else here notice Halo 5: Forge suddenly popping up on the Windows Store? That's something I certainly didn't expect to see after what feels like an entire decade of Xbox exclusivity for the mainline titles.
> 
> It's free, it seems sensibly optimized for KB+M, has a load of graphics options to tweak (though you're stuck at 16:9 and 60 FPS), and there's enough maps included that it really doesn't look like they withheld anything outside of the singleplayer/co-op campaign, or for that matter, held most of the maps back behind some damn season pass. And before you ask, no, Blood Gulch isn't in there.
> 
> Yet nobody else seems to have noticed this release, peculiarly enough. I'm guessing it's because of how Microsoft screwed themselves over with PC gamers and UWP earlier that nobody's paying attention to their latest attempt to win back the crowd.




Forge has been out on PC for a couple weeks. It was actually a pretty big deal at first until people realized it was only a glorified map editor like Doom SnapMap, not the full-blown Halo 5 multiplayer.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

namelesspfg said:


> Did anyone else here notice Halo 5: Forge suddenly popping up on the Windows Store? That's something I certainly didn't expect to see after what feels like an entire decade of Xbox exclusivity for the mainline titles.
> 
> It's free, it seems sensibly optimized for KB+M, has a load of graphics options to tweak (though you're stuck at 16:9 and 60 FPS), and there's enough maps included that it really doesn't look like they withheld anything outside of the singleplayer/co-op campaign, or for that matter, held most of the maps back behind some damn season pass. And before you ask, no, Blood Gulch isn't in there.
> 
> Yet nobody else seems to have noticed this release, peculiarly enough. I'm guessing it's because of how Microsoft screwed themselves over with PC gamers and UWP earlier that nobody's paying attention to their latest attempt to win back the crowd.


 

 Gamespot have frequently had articles about it. Multiplayer isn't really my thing so I overlooked it. What I wanted was the Master Chief Collection come to PC. I played the botched PAL port of Halo 1 on original XBOX and Halo 2. I never played any of the others as aside from briefly co-owning a 360 when I shared a flat with my brother, I didn't own one myself for the majority of its life cycle.
  
 If I could do it again, I'd have bought myself a 360 (and a Fanatec wheel to play the Forza games because the MS Wireless Wheel sucked plums).


----------



## octiceps

napalmhardcore said:


> What I wanted was the Master Chief Collection come to PC.




It's not _quite_ the MCC for PC, but the SPV3 mod for Halo Custom Edition is definitely worth checking out. It's a huge graphical overhaul of the Halo 1 campaign. The first half of SPV3 (up to Assault on the Control Room) is finished and released a few months ago.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

octiceps said:


> It's not _quite_ the MCC for PC, but the SPV3 mod for Halo Custom Edition is definitely worth checking out. It's a huge graphical overhaul of the Halo 1 campaign. The first half of SPV3 (up to Assault on the Control Room) is finished and released a few months ago.


 
 I'll check it out later tonight on Youtube. Thanks


----------



## keroppilee

Akg 7xx and schiit magni 2 Uber for overwatch?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

keroppilee said:


> Akg 7xx and schiit magni 2 Uber for overwatch?


 

 Why, thank you! And it's not even my birthday!


----------



## themrmikemcd

clean6er said:


> when the new TR mixamp came out astro said about how they improved the chat balance, the new one in the center position has the game and chat at max volume then say i start swinging to the chat end the chat volume always stays at 100% but the game volume is turned down.
> 
> the older model had in the center point game and chat at 50% and as you turn it to say chat the chat increases as the game decreases until chat is 100% and game is 0%.
> 
> ...


uggg. I Hate the TR edition mix amp. The surround sound is God awful and sounds like a reverb tin can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

R.I.P



Cables started kinking badly, and right side just went. Now to find my 75s... if I still have them. Gah.

Considering all the abuse, I'm surprised it took this long. The cables are usually the first thing to go bad considering how pathetically thin they are. But I ain't about that DIY life.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So in terms of pure positional with crap all bass, the HD 598 still the best aren't they?


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> R.I.P
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't You just recable them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Read the very last sentence. 

I don't have the tools, and dealing with all that, just better to buy a replacement.

Even the lifetime warranty isn't worth it, due to shipping cost and repair cost being almost the price of a new one.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Read the very last sentence.
> 
> I don't have the tools, and dealing with all that, just better to buy a replacement.
> 
> Even the lifetime warranty isn't worth it, due to shipping cost and repair cost being almost the price of a new one.



There's like a thousand guys on head-fi alone that'd do that for You. Unless it's not worth it in which case I could ship my porta pros to You since I no longer use them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Shipping them cuts well into the price of a new one, so even so, I don't feel it worthwhile. That, and it's a few years old, and I had a little bit of right driver rattle anyways, so if anything, I'd have done something to a new one.

In any case, I had already ordered some 75s which are already on their way, but I appreciate the gesture, really.


----------



## alitomr

Well, I promised comments on the AD700x compared to the HD600. Now I have those and the DT990 pro 250ohms, which I haven't tried extensively. 
  
 I will start off saying that the best for gaming to me are, by far, the HD600. It is the only one with an incredibly precise imaging. With the other two, I struggle to determine where the action is taking place, even though the AD700x might be a little better to spot enemies approaching on foot. But the accuracy you get from the HD600 is simply amazing. My style of gameplay is not very fast. But now with my current setup I keep surrounding enemies and hitting them from behind. It is really amazing and I even think unfair for those with lesser systems. I keep turning to the precise spot they are coming, and avoiding them to hit them from a more vulnerable spot. Amazing. 
  
 I am really blown away by these results, as I was expecting the AD700x to provide a considerable upgrade from the HD600 in terms of competitive FPS gaming, but that is not the case. 
  
 The biggest difference, what made me realize how superior the HD600 is when compared to the AD700x and now the DT990, was when a UAV or some other plane/flying device was close to me in Call of Duty Black Ops 3. With the HD600 I can hear them above, and know with millimetric precision where they are. With the other two headphones this is really hard, and i find myself trying to visually find them all the time, which leaves you very vulnerable from enemies. 
  
 I must say that I only played with the DT990 for a couple hours, and I am thinking about putting in a few more hours, before making a decision. But at this point, I am sure I will be sending back the AD700x, and they dont offer anything above the HD600.
  
 AS I write this, I am listening to the DT990 directly from my laptop and I think for music they are very nice. I cant comment about how they differ from the HD600 and which one I prefer for music, since I haven't tried them with the rest of my rig. Tomorrow I will have a proper audition with the modi 2 uber, magni 2 uber and the valhalla 2, just to see if they improve.
  
 VERY IMPORTANT: I am using the Astro Mixamp TR in my PS4, and then amping the signal with the Valhalla 2 OR the magni 2 uber.


----------



## kellte2

alitomr said:


> Well, I promised comments on the AD700x compared to the HD600. Now I have those and the DT990 pro 250ohms, which I haven't tried extensively.
> 
> I will start off saying that the best for gaming to me are, by far, the HD600. It is the only one with an incredibly precise imaging. With the other two, I struggle to determine where the action is taking place, even though the AD700x might be a little better to spot enemies approaching on foot. But the accuracy you get from the HD600 is simply amazing. My style of gameplay is not very fast. But now with my current setup I keep surrounding enemies and hitting them from behind. It is really amazing and I even think unfair for those with lesser systems. I keep turning to the precise spot they are coming, and avoiding them to hit them from a more vulnerable spot. Amazing.
> 
> ...




Triple amp?


----------



## alitomr

kellte2 said:


> Triple amp?


 
 No. Only double amp. Mixamp pro TR ---> MAgni 2 uber OR Valhalla 2. Edited my post.


----------



## pewfish

Hey guys, I'm getting a laptop with a Sabre Hi-Fi DAC. Specs under "Sound System" in this link. It's supposed be to able to handle stuff up to 600 Ohms which gives me a lot of choice, I might even give open headphones a go! I'm thinking about getting the DT990 (250) or the HD598, though I'm willing to consider others.
  
 This will be my first time owning a pair of open cans and I think I may be overestimating how bad the sound leak will be. I'll be using this in the office where I have a colleague about 6 feet away from me seperated by monitors and at home where I've got my wife to take into consideration, so I'm just wondering how bad do open cans leak sound.


----------



## kellte2

pewfish said:


> Hey guys, I'm getting a laptop with a Sabre Hi-Fi DAC. Specs under "Sound System" in this link. It's supposed be to able to handle stuff up to 600 Ohms which gives me a lot of choice, I might even give open headphones a go! I'm thinking about getting the DT990 (250) or the HD598, though I'm willing to consider others.
> 
> This will be my first time owning a pair of open cans and I think I may be overestimating how bad the sound leak will be. I'll be using this in the office where I have a colleague about 6 feet away from me seperated by monitors and at home where I've got my wife to take into consideration, so I'm just wondering how bad do open cans leak sound.




Really depends on the can, but in my experience there is a lot of leakage and I wouldn't want to use open headphones at work. I presently own the AKG K702 Annie. At a reasonable volume level, you can clearly hear music from 6-10 ft away. During a brief demo of the HD800, the leakage I heard was, in my opinion, worse than my AKGs. 

My fiancé also would prefer that I have closed headphone for my gaming, as we are often in the same room and the open nature of the headphones can be distracting to her as she reads or works from home. I guess she doesn't necessarily enjoy Overwatch and the chatter from the characters as much as I do. Hence my Ether C Flow order.


----------



## lenroot77

kellte2 said:


> Really depends on the can, but in my experience there is a lot of leakage and I wouldn't want to use open headphones at work. I presently own the AKG K702 Annie. At a reasonable volume level, you can clearly hear music from 6-10 ft away. During a brief demo of the HD800, the leakage I heard was, in my opinion, worse than my AKGs.
> 
> My fiancé also would prefer that I have closed headphone for my gaming, as we are often in the same room and the open nature of the headphones can be distracting to her as she reads or works from home. I guess she doesn't necessarily enjoy Overwatch and the chatter from the characters as much as I do. Hence my Ether C Flow order.




Sounds like her problem and not yours!


----------



## pewfish

kellte2 said:


> Really depends on the can, but in my experience there is a lot of leakage and I wouldn't want to use open headphones at work. I presently own the AKG K702 Annie. At a reasonable volume level, you can clearly hear music from 6-10 ft away. During a brief demo of the HD800, the leakage I heard was, in my opinion, worse than my AKGs.
> 
> My fiancé also would prefer that I have closed headphone for my gaming, as we are often in the same room and the open nature of the headphones can be distracting to her as she reads or works from home. I guess she doesn't necessarily enjoy Overwatch and the chatter from the characters as much as I do. Hence my Ether C Flow order.


 
  
 Ah don't know it. I was hoping that wasn't the case. I tried the HD 598 while in Singapore and still couldn't forget them.
  
 But wow, Ether C, don't think I'm there just yet. I wonder if the Oppo PM-3 or anything in the slightly upper end (300-400 GBP) could give me a similar experience.


----------



## kellte2

pewfish said:


> Ah don't know it. I was hoping that wasn't the case. I tried the HD 598 while in Singapore and still couldn't forget them.
> 
> But wow, Ether C, don't think I'm there just yet. I wonder if the Oppo PM-3 or anything in the slightly upper end (300-400 GBP) could give me a similar experience.


It's all a matter of comfort and preference. Are they any opportunities for you to try them at a local shop? That's really the only way you'll get a sense of the leakage.

Also, what about one of the newer closed back models like the TH-X00 or the DT1770? Both have received good marks.


----------



## pewfish

kellte2 said:


> It's all a matter of comfort and preference. Are they any opportunities for you to try them at a local shop? That's really the only way you'll get a sense of the leakage.
> 
> Also, what about one of the newer closed back models like the TH-X00 or the DT1770? Both have received good marks.


 
  
 Nowhere really. There's no mid-end Hi-Fi stuff around where I'm at. Either really low end stuff or super high end. Guess I'll order the DT1770 and a bunch of others at once off Amazon and return the ones I don't like. I've been eyeing the TH-X00 but can't justify the [(Price + Shipping) + 23%] since Europe and all.


----------



## kellte2

pewfish said:


> Nowhere really. There's no mid-end Hi-Fi stuff around where I'm at. Either really low end stuff or super high end. Guess I'll order the DT1770 and a bunch of others at once off Amazon and return the ones I don't like. I've been eyeing the TH-X00 but can't justify the [(Price + Shipping) + 23%] since Europe and all.


 
 Last suggestion: TH-610.


----------



## pewfish

kellte2 said:


> Last suggestion: TH-610.


 
  
 I wish. That's a good bit over what I can afford and also want to pay. Cheers for the suggestions, much appreciated.
  
 I've tossed the DT1770, ATH MSR7 and the NAD VISO HP50 into the cart. I'll check that out so I get them before next weekend and figure it out then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TH-610? Man, I miss everything.


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys, AKG K7XX or Senheiser HD600  for PC gaming. I am interested in sound stage and footsteps, imersive gamplay as well. Any suggestions from personal experience?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Still deciding on a gaming set for use with PS4 (via Astro Mixamp TR) and Xbox One (via pad).  Was getting the Phillips X2 until their supply seems to have dried up and my order was cancelled.  SHP9500 was another option but here in the UK they are only £10 less than what I was paying for the X2 and at £106 seem massively overpriced compared to the $60 tag in the US.
  
 I want to use a V-Moda Boom mic so question is - is their something better than the 9500 at that price point? Beyer Custom One Pro maybe?


----------



## pewfish

whitehartmart said:


> Still deciding on a gaming set for use with PS4 (via Astro Mixamp TR) and Xbox One (via pad).  Was getting the Phillips X2 until their supply seems to have dried up and my order was cancelled.  SHP9500 was another option but here in the UK they are only £10 less than what I was paying for the X2 and at £106 seem massively overpriced compared to the $60 tag in the US.
> 
> I want to use a V-Moda Boom mic so question is - is their something better than the 9500 at that price point? Beyer Custom One Pro maybe?


 
 The Head-Fi market has a few of the X2s that ship within Europe. Try Hifi Shark if you're intent on the X2s


----------



## lenroot77

Has anyone tried the new he-350 from Massdrop for gaming? Impressions?


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Has anyone tried the new he-350 from Massdrop for gaming? Impressions?




Recent reviews say they're less than average, even for the price. Funny because early adopters were praising them. As with all consumer reviews, it's always best to read those from people who actually paid for the product.


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

change is good said:


> Recent reviews say they're less than average, even for the price. Funny because early adopters were praising them. As with all consumer reviews, it's always best to read those from people who actually paid for the product.


 
  
 Exactly and "Funny" indeed.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Recent reviews say they're less than average, even for the price. Funny because early adopters were praising them. As with all consumer reviews, it's always best to read those from people who actually paid for the product.




Hmmm guess I'll stay with the hd800's then!


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

ljanmi said:


> Guys, AKG K7XX or Senheiser HD600  for PC gaming. I am interested in sound stage and footsteps, imersive gamplay as well. Any suggestions from personal experience?


 
 I have the K702 Annies, which are supposed to be the father of the K7XX. I love them for gaming, and they are great for sound whoring. If I am serious about my FPS gaming, those are the phones I go with. I recently picked up the DT990, but that was more for solo play and movies, as they have more bass overall. My Annies can do bass very well, they just aren't drowning in bass like I like for movies. I haven't heard the HD600 yet, but I would imagine they are also good for gaming. I am thinking the K7XX would be the better of the two for soundstage and footsteps.


----------



## Ljanmi

I'll go for K7XX then. I am sure they will be good for movies too  . I play solo games mostly though. Is it possible to drive them with onboard amp/dac(up to 600ohms) for headphones on new Asus Maximus VIII motherboards?


----------



## Change is Good

ljanmi said:


> I'll go for K7XX then. I am sure they will be good for movies too  . I play solo games mostly though. Is it possible to drive them with onboard amp/dac(up to 600ohms) for headphones on new Asus Maximus VIII motherboards?


 
  
 I mostly used the K7XX straight out of my mixamp on the PS4, so I assume you should be fine.


----------



## Sam21

Which Focuspad should I get for my HE400 ... Focuspad-A or Focuspad


----------



## Ljanmi

How long is the audio cable on AKG K7XX?


----------



## kellte2

ljanmi said:


> How long is the audio cable on AKG K7XX?




About 10 ft.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

sam21 said:


> Which Focuspad should I get for my HE400 ... Focuspad-A or Focuspad




Neither. Get the Shure 1540 pads. I prefer their sound the most, but I do like the Audeze leatherfree pads for comfort (they're cooler on the ears, though the sound isn't as good, IMHO)

I feel the Focuspads lose out a little on bass, which I didn't like. I haven't tried the As.


----------



## Yethal

You keep telling everyone how great the 1540 pads I might buy one pair fir myself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, I really like them as a leather pad replacement to whatever it can fit on. M50s, HE400, and I assume much more. I feel like getting another pair myself, but I honestly hardly use my HE400 as is, and I'm completely spoiled by the LCD-2 leather free pads in comfort. Comfort is too much of a priority for me, and the 1540 pads effectively functions like a leather pad in terms of heat build up(though without the icky, sticky feeling on skin contact).


----------



## yugnat

Just wondering if I could get some input on surround processors... I play on a PS4, will be upgrading to the Pro in November. I currently use a 2013 Mixamp double amped with an O2 driving a pair of AKG 712 Pro. I want to see if the new Mixamp TR is better - or maybe even the X7? Trying to find an upgrade for multiplayer - lower noise floor, better positional cues, little cleaner set up (cables), etc. Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

yugnat said:


> Just wondering if I could get some input on surround processors... I play on a PS4, will be upgrading to the Pro in November. I currently use a 2013 Mixamp double amped with an O2 driving a pair of AKG 712 Pro. I want to see if the new Mixamp TR is better - or maybe even the X7? Trying to find an upgrade for multiplayer - lower noise floor, better positional cues, little cleaner set up (cables), etc. Thanks!




Only viable upgrade currently available over the mixamp is the X7. The G5 is also an option, but no surround on console.


----------



## yugnat

change is good said:


> Only viable upgrade currently available over the mixamp is the X7. The G5 is also an option, but no surround on console.


 
 Do you feel the X7 processes surround better than the latest Mixamp TR?  I have an amp I'm happy with already for my 712's, I would most likely sell it if I went with the X7 but I'm really trying to see if there is any better processing for multiplayer than what's in my 2013 mixamp.  I don't mind the X7 price but I would only be using it for multiplayer PS4, no really music listening as I have a completely different rig for that.


----------



## whitexp

hi guys , 
 what about shp9500 ?


----------



## AxelCloris

It's fine, go for it.


----------



## kellte2

yugnat said:


> Do you feel the X7 processes surround better than the latest Mixamp TR?  I have an amp I'm happy with already for my 712's, I would most likely sell it if I went with the X7 but I'm really trying to see if there is any better processing for multiplayer than what's in my 2013 mixamp.  I don't mind the X7 price but I would only be using it for multiplayer PS4, no really music listening as I have a completely different rig for that.




Some might argue over whether SBX is superior to DH for positional accuracy, but the DAC is just so much better in the X7 as compared to the mixamp that it makes the sound clearer by an easily discernible margin. I sold my mixamp 2013 and matrix m-stage for my x7 on my gaming rig and haven't looked back; it was a huge upgrade to my ears.


----------



## Evshrug

yugnat said:


> Do you feel the X7 processes surround better than the latest Mixamp TR?  I have an amp I'm happy with already for my 712's, I would most likely sell it if I went with the X7 but I'm really trying to see if there is any better processing for multiplayer than what's in my 2013 mixamp.  I don't mind the X7 price but I would only be using it for multiplayer PS4, no really music listening as I have a completely different rig for that.



Despite what Earfonia's review will lead you to believe, the X7 is great for gaming (earfonia just didn't test it for gaming). The O2 is indeed pretty decent, not required when you have an X7 but you can hook up other amps or even DACs to the X7 (so you could combine your music and gaming rigs if you wanted).


----------



## yugnat

Thanks - sounds like SBX is at least as good as the DH in the Mixamp. And I certainly don't doubt the X7's DAC is superior... So I'll pick up the X7 on Amazon and see how much it livens up my 712 Pro's. Hopefully I find some advantage/improvement over my 2013 Mixamp/O2 combo in my FPS multiplayer games as well. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Nekrono

I'm gonna post here in hopes that someone can help me:
  
 Hey guys, I'm wondering what is the cheapest way to get Dolby Headphone on these cans. I'm really not an audiophile and mainly bought these headphones because a lot of people said the soundstage was great and that was my main reason to buy them. So far I've been using them with Razer Surround Sound software and a basic FiiO E02i amp that a friend gave me just to get a bit more volume.
  
 I'm looking for two things, firstly to get Dolby Headphone sound and secondly to increase the volume/soundstage to get a little bit more out of these headphones, I know there is potential in them that I have not unlocked but I don't have that much money for a proper amp setup to go with them.
  
 So far I'm looking at getting the ASUS Xonar U3 amd/dac combo as $40 matches my budget and it has Dolby Headphone.
  
 My question is this, is the Dolby Headphone in this USB soundcard the same as the Dolby Headphone in other high end soundcards? Am I gonna be missing something?
  
 And also, would this be enough to drive the AKG Q701's? At least at the same volume that I get with the FiiO E02i?
  
 Please help me as I am not really an audiophile and my knowledge in this area is very limited, I just want to get the best directional audio and decent volume as connecting the Q701's directly to my PC makes them sound too low for me.
  
 Another alternative I'm considering getting is the Xonar DG
  
 Please help me


----------



## Yethal

nekrono said:


> I'm gonna post here in hopes that someone can help me:
> 
> Hey guys, I'm wondering what is the cheapest way to get Dolby Headphone on these cans. I'm really not an audiophile and mainly bought these headphones because a lot of people said the soundstage was great and that was my main reason to buy them. So far I've been using them with Razer Surround Sound software and a basic FiiO E02i amp that a friend gave me just to get a bit more volume.
> 
> ...



Dolby headphone implementation does not differ between different devices. Go for Xonar DG.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just have to make sure you set the Dolby Headphone room mode to 2 if you want the general DH. You'll find it in the software's control panel. DH-1 sound less procesed but not as spacious, and DH-3 is way too echo-y and synthetic. DH-2 is a good trade off, and what most devices like the Mixamp used for years.

Newer soundcards I don't think have Dolby headphone rooms, but a slider. I'd assume something like 50-60% on the surround slider is the rough equivalent of DH-2. I don't own any of these newer devices, so not sure.

Also make sure that on the playback devices (by right clicking the speaker icon on the task bar), you have your speakers set to 5.1/7.1.


----------



## nicobombai

Quick question,
  
 Right now im loving my SHP9500S + v-moda mic, but i feel the sound is not loud enough. Was considering to get a Mixamp or Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro.
 I will be just using the pc. Any thoughts? or are there better solutions?


----------



## headphonesonly

nicobombai said:


> Quick question,
> 
> Right now im loving my SHP9500S + v-moda mic, but i feel the sound is not loud enough. Was considering to get a Mixamp or Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro.
> I will be just using the pc. Any thoughts? or are there better solutions?


Are you looking for external sound cards only or does that not matter.


----------



## nicobombai

headphonesonly said:


> Are you looking for external sound cards only or does that not matter.


 
  
 It doesn't really matter, as long as it can juice up my headphone.


----------



## headphonesonly

nicobombai said:


> It doesn't really matter, as long as it can juice up my headphone.


 alright well my favorite is the creative sound blaster z cards. I currently use my shp9500 for gaming and I know it's very efficient so the amp on these cards will make your headphones loud as hell. The omni is another good option. And if you have no budget I would highly recommend the x7. However if you don't care for surround sound then just get a high quality DAC/amp like the schiit modi 2/magni 2. That's what I currently use.


----------



## nicobombai

headphonesonly said:


> alright well my favorite is the creative sound blaster z cards. I currently use my shp9500 for gaming and I know it's very efficient so the amp on these cards will make your headphones loud as hell. The omni is another good option. And if you have no budget I would highly recommend the x7. However if you don't care for surround sound then just get a high quality DAC/amp like the schiit modi 2/magni 2. That's what I currently use.


 
  
 Hmmm... Interesting.. I will look into it. Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## Overkill Red

Just wanted to thank you for the great guide!
 Just got a great deal on a pair of Fidelio X1s and ordered a V-Moda Boom mic off Amazon.
 Looking forward to using them for Rainbow Six: Siege and the upcoming Battlefield 1!


----------



## Fegefeuer

PC373D is about 155€ for the EU guys@Amazon.es


----------



## Ljanmi

I decided to go for amp/dac for my AKG K7XX . Dolby headphone would be a nice option. I was looking at some model of Fiio as it is relatively cheap. Any suggestions?


----------



## Yethal

ljanmi said:


> I decided to go for amp/dac for my AKG K7XX . Dolby headphone would be a nice option. I was looking at some model of Fiio as it is relatively cheap. Any suggestions?


 

 Fiio dacs don't support headphone virtualisation technologies.


----------



## Ljanmi

If we exclude Dolby Headphone what would be the good desktop model for AKG K7XX? Fiio is relatively cheap


----------



## Fegefeuer

Jotunheim


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Hmmm... Interesting.. I will look into it. Thanks for the suggestions!



Basically, any of the options you mentioned and were mentioned would work pretty well with the Phillips SPH9500. I'd pick the Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 over the Mixamp, less background hiss. 
The Omni 5.1 is basically the replacement for the X-Fi you mentioned, the Omni is nice because it puts ports and a physical volume dial on your desk, and you could connect multiple desktop speakers to it too, or if you build up your gear later it has a line-out and a digital out to send surround processed audio out to an amp or a DAC/amp.
The Soundblaster Z will sound super close to the Omni (if you had them side-by-side the Z will seem slightly more revealing), but it takes up a card slot and the ports are then on the back of your computer. And it's not laptop/Mac compatible 
Using the Modi and the Omni as a pure DAC (both connected to the same amp), I couldn't discern a difference in quality, though of course the Omni offers more features. I haven't heard the Modi 2, or the Multibit Modi, so the game might change (hopefully?).
The Schiit Jotunheim that Feg mentioned is higher end, but also quite interesting. I still expect the Creative X7 to be better suited for gamers (surround processing, mic, can connect to console, PC, phone, and Bluetooth at the same time, powered speaker taps, etc), but I haven't heard the Jotunheim and people praise it for it's pure musical capabilities.

I used the Q701 with an Omni and a Z, does fairly well but you might like to cut some of the treble in EQ.




ljanmi said:


> I decided to go for amp/dac for my AKG K7XX . Dolby headphone would be a nice option. I was looking at some model of Fiio as it is relatively cheap. Any suggestions?



How cheap is cheap to go with your deep discount $200 headphones that IMO go toe-to-toe (with a different flavor) with the HD650? I used a FiiO E5 with my similar AKG Q701, but even having never heard better amp I could tell the headphone was being a bit held back. I quite liked the K712 with the E12, and it would probably also be quite good with the new desktop amp from FiiO (replaced the E09k, or maybe put out a Want To Buy ad on the For Sale forum). I probably wouldn't bother wasting money on an amp less than $75, not much benefit in those vs straight out from a phone.



fegefeuer said:


> Jotunheim



I need to hear this!


----------



## Ljanmi

So Fiio E12 is the best way to go with AKG K7XX for desktop?


----------



## lenroot77

ljanmi said:


> So Fiio E12 is the best way to go with AKG K7XX for desktop?




You may also check out some of the entry level Schiit products Magni or Vali. If cost is a concern they are pretty cheap on the classifieds here on headfi.


----------



## Ljanmi

Why everybody so against Chinese?


----------



## lenroot77

ljanmi said:


> Why everybody so against Chinese?




I was just suggesting "desktop" units as that's what u mentioned.


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> Basically, any of the options you mentioned and were mentioned would work pretty well with the Phillips SPH9500. I'd pick the Sound Blaster X-Fi 5.1 over the Mixamp, less background hiss.
> The Omni 5.1 is basically the replacement for the X-Fi you mentioned, the Omni is nice because it puts ports and a physical volume dial on your desk, and you could connect multiple desktop speakers to it too, or if you build up your gear later it has a line-out and a digital out to send surround processed audio out to an amp or a DAC/amp.
> The Soundblaster Z will sound super close to the Omni (if you had them side-by-side the Z will seem slightly more revealing), but it takes up a card slot and the ports are then on the back of your computer. And it's not laptop/Mac compatible
> 
> ...


 
  
 Aye captain!


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Been stalling on deciding on what to get for PS4 gaming now for a few weeks.  Had Sony Official Wireless which I didn't like, then Superlux 681Evo and Zalman mic via the controller.  Had a night of sound cutting in and out last night for some reason so Mixamp or Mixamp TR will be coming over the weekend.
  
 Next dilemma is headphones - want something to paid with a V-Moda Boom to reduce cables.  Was all set on the SHP9500 but can't help feel they are overpriced here in the UK (£110 approx).  I can get Beyer Custom One Pro for a similar amount and I'm not a massive fan of the shallow earcups on the 9500.  Are there any others in the this price range I should be considering please?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## themrmikemcd

whitehartmart said:


> Been stalling on deciding on what to get for PS4 gaming now for a few weeks.  Had Sony Official Wireless which I didn't like, then Superlux 681Evo and Zalman mic via the controller.  Had a night of sound cutting in and out last night for some reason so Mixamp or Mixamp TR will be coming over the weekend.
> 
> Next dilemma is headphones - want something to paid with a V-Moda Boom to reduce cables.  Was all set on the SHP9500 but can't help feel they are overpriced here in the UK (£110 approx).  I can get Beyer Custom One Pro for a similar amount and I'm not a massive fan of the shallow earcups on the 9500.  Are there any others in the this price range I should be considering please?
> 
> Thanks.


I'm a huge fan of my newly purchased DT990 PROS. I have it paired with an older astro mix amp. I hated the new mixamp TR. The sound is very tinny and sounds very processed in SS. Just my opinion. Honestly I was a huge fan of the Hyper x cloud 2. Paired with my mix amp they are my number 2 headphones. But I play single player games. I owned both the Ad700x and the senheizer 598s. Both were great for FPS. But just wasn't what I wanted. I want immersion gaming, no need for foot steps. *edit* I just realized these may not be in your price range but these are some of my personal suggestions for my type of Gaming I apologize if I wasn't much help. I spent so much time trying to pick a good pair of headphones to go with my PlayStation 4 and my Astro MixAmp I am finally happy with what I have.


----------



## Yethal

I just ordered the Shure Alcantara pads. You convinced me Mad.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

themrmikemcd said:


> I'm a huge fan of my newly purchased DT990 PROS. I have it paired with an older astro mix amp. I hated the new mixamp TR. The sound is very tinny and sounds very processed in SS. Just my opinion. Honestly I was a huge fan of the Hyper x cloud 2. Paired with my mix amp they are my number 2 headphones. But I play single player games. I owned both the Ad700x and the senheizer 598s. Both were great for FPS. But just wasn't what I wanted. I want immersion gaming, no need for foot steps. *edit* I just realized these may not be in your price range but these are some of my personal suggestions for my type of Gaming I apologize if I wasn't much help. I spent so much time trying to pick a good pair of headphones to go with my PlayStation 4 and my Astro MixAmp I am finally happy with what I have.


 
  
 Thanks - appreciated.  I had a Mixamp TR on my XB1 for a while and it did sound more processed athough I managed to play around with the settings to improve it a bit - it may be I get the previous generation Mixamp - not sure yet.
  
 Problem with most of the headphones you mention is I think I've had to go the ModMic route and I'd rather go with the VModa Boom purely for less cables.
  
 Pretty sure my choices for now will be Beyer Custom One Pro or Phillips SHP9500 (Hyper X Cloud still possible though) - unless I *shudder* get a wireless set like the Lucidsound LS30 or new Astro A50s.  Thing is I'm pretty sure I won't enjoy those as much sonically despite them being more convenient.  Decisions, decisions


----------



## Yethal

Buy the Custom One Pros and swap the earpads for velour ones.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey guys, 

I'm at a headphone shop in Pittsburgh with TONS of different high end headphones, trying to get local people up for a meet so we can discuss and such. A mini RMAF, without the tent! Making twitter posts, search for #Headphile.

I'm loving these Focal (pronounced Fo-Cal) Listen headphones, and they have a removable headphone cable. 


Good closed headphone contender for $300! My bald spot wishes for more headband padding, but the Earpads are actually pretty plush and feel great for closed headphones, good isolation and I bet that the pads get even more comfy as they break in. Would totally pick these over Oppo PM-3 which I felt were a little too mild on the bass.

You guys think this might work with the BoomPro? I don't have a BoomPro, but I feel like the cut out towards the front would help:


Here's the Listen with the "wrong" end of the standard V-Moda cable plugged in. Maybe since the 45° connector fits, more chance for the BoomPro cable?


Interesting side note: the Listen's cable also has a 45° plug for the input side. And shiny chrome


----------



## Yethal

If the BoomPro doesn't work on its own, it will with a 3.5mm iPhone adapter (the one used back in times when apple products had recessed inputs)


----------



## Evshrug

Look what I did!

Doesn't look great (the padding doesn't fit all the way around the Listen's already padded headband), but it FEELS awesome! Also, COP vs Listen... well I know the Listen is $300, but the presence and bass and insight is SO much better! Damn, first headphone I picked up and I'm falling in love.


----------



## Evshrug

One of Mad's old loves:


Wearing the real leather Earpads and the (IMO sexy) copper earcup attachment arches. Old stock baby!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> I just ordered the Shure Alcantara pads. You convinced me Mad.




Let me know how they work out for you. And for which headphones.


----------



## Yethal

It's not like I have a dozen different pairs to try them on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's what I mean, I don't know what you own.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Following on from my previous post - looks like Beyer Custom One Pro are most likely for me, unless I can stretch to the Fidelio X2.  Have found the Sennheiser G4me One for a very similar price to the Beyer - not worried about the permanent mic as these will be used for gaming only but doe they compare favourably to the Beyer?


----------



## Evshrug

whitehartmart said:


> Following on from my previous post - looks like Beyer Custom One Pro are most likely for me, unless I can stretch to the Fidelio X2.  Have found the Sennheiser G4me One for a very similar price to the Beyer - not worried about the permanent mic as these will be used for gaming only but doe they compare favourably to the Beyer?



I was listening to the Custom One Pro last night... I wasn't too impressed, and I have a suspicion that the Creative H7 might perform similarly. I brought my H7 with me to compare directly, and I'll listen to the COP plus too. I already preferred the old DT770 32 Ohm over the COP.


----------



## Yethal

Don't forget that Beyer drivers and cups are intercompatible so it won't be too hard to swap the COP drivers for some better ones and keep the customizability (and mic add-on) of the stock cop. That's the route I plan to take as soon as my budget recoups from the cost of a new PC.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Don't forget that Beyer drivers and cups are intercompatible so it won't be too hard to swap the COP drivers for some better ones and keep the customizability (and mic add-on) of the stock cop. That's the route I plan to take as soon as my budget recoups from the cost of a new PC.



Sure. I did just compare the H7 vs the COP, and the only audible difference (connected to a Questyle CMA600i, super awesome amp/DAC so as to hear the full potential of both and A/B fast). Only difference is the H7 is a little less sensitive and needs turned up a few %, the cable is nicer on the H7, and the H7 costs $129 new. Oh, and the H7 can also be digitally connected to PC or PS4.
The COP comes with a mobile cable with an in-line mic, and the plus version comes with a bunch of artistic earcup plates. And costs $199 at this store I'm visiting.


----------



## Yethal

I bought mine used for about 80$, I don't know if I would've bought them if they were 199$. Gonna try them with Alcantara pads as soon as they arrive.


evshrug said:


> Oh, and the H7 can also be digitally connected to PC or PS4.


 
 As if that was ever a valid argument in this thread


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> I bought mine used for about 80$, I don't know if I would've bought them if they were 199$. Gonna try them with Alcantara pads as soon as they arrive.
> As if that was ever a valid argument in this thread




Pretty great used price!
Also! Just had someone text me that the SoundBlaster G5 is on clearance at Best Buy for 50% off, so $75. Still only surround for PC, but with either stereo or PC gaming that's a pretty unbeatable amp/DAC/Processor price. Not as great a deal as the DSS2 (oh, and with a bundled headset that I gave to a friend) that was $1 after rebates, but it's the deal now and a fair upgrade!


----------



## Yethal

Some guys on the G5 thread reported some serious clipping issues so I'd exercise caution on this one.
 The G5 overall seems like a wasted potential to me. It could' have dethroned the Mixamp as the go-to device for console surround gaming (with the added benefit of upgradability) but failed due to lack of Dolby Digital and driver issues. A real shame.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm getting that Necropolis, Yethal. Just waiting on my PSN card to be sent by email.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I'm getting that Necropolis, Yethal. Just waiting on my PSN card to be sent by email.


 

 Don't forget to stream it.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Don't forget to stream it.




I did, but it was just a feeler. I dig it, can see myself playing it for countless hours. It's like you guys combined Journey visuals with Dark Souls mechanics. Me likes.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I did, but it was just a feeler. I dig it, can see myself playing it for countless hours. It's like you guys combined Journey visuals with Dark Souls mechanics. Me likes.


 

 And Portal humor.


----------



## Beanlipe

Awesome post MLE!! Great initiative!
  
 I was hype about buying the Fidelio X2 but after soo much reading I think I will end up buying a HE400S + the Focus pads and the Brainwavz pads to see what I like best and I'll get a FiiO E18 to pair with.
  
 Do you guys think the HE400S with the pads are going to have enough soundstage for competitive gaming?
  
 Also if I need I could just boost the bass on the FiiO if I feel like it.
  
 Would be better than the X2's right?
  
 Tough decision lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't say anything about the 400S since I haven't tested them. Planars that I've used aren't the *best* in soundstage, but I've generally been happy enough with them for all uses. The exceptions are stuff like the Ether C and Alpha Dogs which had clearly amazing soundstages, IMHO.

The planar landscape has changed a bit since I was heavility into this hobby, so perhaps that's all a moot point now.


----------



## themrmikemcd

So I just sold my ATHM50Xand ordered the Grado sr80e. Do you think the SR80e will be good for gaming at all with mixamp and fio E12? I bought them for rock music but wondered if they might work well with gaming. Anyone use them? Thanks! P.s. i currently use dt990 for gaming on PS4. Single player games. Some FPS but only on campaigne mode


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone have any suggestions for an optical to coax converter? Or maybe they are a waste of time?


----------



## Sam21

My Fostex T50RP MK3's with lambskin pads absolutely murder all the other headphones that I have easily...


----------



## rudyae86

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/v4r/global_search?q=gsx+1200

Sennheiser GSX1200 Pro is now selling in the US for....$250!! Lol

Hmmm I so want to try it but I'll wait a bit longer...need to save me some money first


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Grados are known to have a very limited soundstage, which betrays their very open backed design. I wouldn't have high hopes for the SR80es to be stellar in soundstage. Still, as with most headphones, virtual surround helps EVERY headphone, and should make it fine.



lenroot77 said:


> Anyone have any suggestions for an optical to coax converter? Or maybe they are a waste of time?




I had a cheap one from Monoprice back when I used the first gen Mixamp. It converted optical to digitial coaxial without any issues whatsoever.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2948

Worked like a dream, couldn't tell a difference in SQ at all. Lost it in a move, I think.

Speaking of optical and SQ, I decided to switch over to optical out to optical in on my X7, since USB output on my laptop to the X7 is ripe with random pops, and distortions. I mean, it's an extra cable I didn't wanna attach, but I can't even watch any media without that problem. Now on optical, everything is silent and perfect. Too bad I have to switch to USB when I'm gaming though, since my optical out on my laptop is stereo only.


----------



## Saldi

Please read this...is a topic that i did but is also for gaming so...Take a look fellas.


 http://www.head-fi.org/t/822650/magni-2-uber-or-jds-the-element



 ------------------------------------------


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/v4r/global_search?q=gsx+1200
> 
> Sennheiser GSX1200 Pro is now selling in the US for....$250!! Lol
> 
> Hmmm I so want to try it but I'll wait a bit longer...need to save me some money first


 
 +1 point for having separate mic and headphones jacks
 +1 point for having a separate speaker jack
 +1 point for having two separate chat jacks (so one can be used with a cellphone)
 -1 point for being USB only
 -1 point for using mini-USB instead of type-B connection
 -1 point for using proprietary algorithm (how many times this has ended well? Aside from the Realizer ofc)
 -1 point for being 250$ (you can have two mixamps for that price)


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> +1 point for having separate mic and headphones jacks
> +1 point for having a separate speaker jack
> +1 point for having two separate chat jacks (so one can be used with a cellphone)
> -1 point for being USB only
> ...




Well I will agree to your pro's and con's except for the USB part. I dont think this was ever meant to be for console and more for the PC enthusiasts, although creating something for consoles would have been a better feature since there are plenty of them out there. 

As for it's propietary algorithm....well true, there are many who have not delivered as we thought they would but that doesnt mean like this could be worse than SBX or DH...we haven't tested it yet so I am intrigued by this device and how it will deliver. If amazon has it selling...ill probably buy it


----------



## Yethal

The jury is still out on the algorithm. Maybe it'll turn out amazing. As for the USB part I feel that console market is just really underserved compared to PC market. Like the 40 million PS4 sold do not exist.


----------



## Change is Good

Yethal, the positional cues in Necropolis are REALLY good. Did you help out in the audio development as well?


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> Grados are known to have a very limited soundstage, which betrays their very open backed design. I wouldn't have high hopes for the SR80es to be stellar in soundstage. Still, as with most headphones, virtual surround helps EVERY headphone, and should make it fine.
> I had a cheap one from Monoprice back when I used the first gen Mixamp. It converted optical to digitial coaxial without any issues whatsoever.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2948
> ...


I cancelled my Grados order and went with the SHP9500. People rave about these and they were cheaper. Here's hoping the hype is real!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like a good choice to me.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Yethal, the positional cues in Necropolis are REALLY good. Did you help out in the audio development as well?



I did not unfortunately. Just QA with some focus tests in between. I wanted to bring my mixamp to work but security policy at my workplace prohibits bringing any electronic devices.


----------



## Yethal

Alcantara pads have arrived.
  
 Hello bass thump my old friend. I've come to talk with you again.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

sam21 said:


> My Fostex T50RP MK3's with lambskin pads absolutely murder all the other headphones that I have easily...




Could you elaborate on this please? I'm looking to jump into planar headphones and those have looked interesting. What else have you used and loved? What do they do well? Etc.


----------



## Hunched

The GSX 1200 still says "Available Soon" for me on the US site and every other retailer it's listed on...
  
 Also my Sennheiser PC360 Headset is dying, so I'm debating getting something from their HD Series whether it be an HD600, HD650, HD700.
 The GSX amps claim to only drive up to 150Ω, and the HD600 & HD650 require 300Ω while the HD700 is fine with 150Ω.
 So I don't know what to do, probably need to make another topic asking for help and hopefully I get some.
  
 HD700's are also $1200 everywhere in Canada even though they're $428 on Amazon.com... not cool.
 It costs over $100 from Amazon.com just to get them into Canada, and other places like B&H will not ship the $428 HD700's outside the US.
 Still cheaper than $1200 though, but What? It's literally 3x the price at every retailer that sells it in Canada, $400 to $1200, I've checked like 10 different retailers.
  
 :/


----------



## headphonesonly

hunched said:


> The GSX 1200 still says "Available Soon" for me on the US site and every other retailer it's listed on...
> 
> Also my Sennheiser PC360 Headset is dying, so I'm debating getting something from their HD Series whether it be an HD600, HD650, HD700.
> The GSX amps claim to only drive up to 150Ω, and the HD600 & HD650 require 300Ω while the HD700 is fine with 150Ω.
> ...


Any reason you only want sennheiser. How about the hifiman he400s with angled hm5 pads.


----------



## Yethal

hunched said:


> The GSX 1200 still says "Available Soon" for me on the US site and every other retailer it's listed on...
> 
> Also my Sennheiser PC360 Headset is dying, so I'm debating getting something from their HD Series whether it be an HD600, HD650, HD700.
> The GSX amps claim to only drive up to 150Ω, and the HD600 & HD650 require 300Ω while the HD700 is fine with 150Ω.
> ...


 

 How far is Detroit from where You live?


----------



## Hunched

headphonesonly said:


> Any reason you only want sennheiser. How about the hifiman he400s with angled hm5 pads.


 
 I just felt like getting something from Sennheiser again if I could, I'm likely getting their GSX 1000 DAC/Amp. 
 I'm looking into other options for headphones now, since I've learned the HD6x0's don't have a great soundstage and the HD700 has treble spike issues.
 It would be cool if they released HD601's and HD651's with huge soundstages like the HD700 and HD800(s).
 Technically the HD800S is perfect, but it's $1500... I'm comfortable around $500.
  
 In another topic AKG K7 Series was recommended so I'm considering those too.
  
 Sticking with Sennheiser seemed like the easy thing to do because I could actually narrow down my options, now there's so many choices I couldn't even complete a list of them.
  
  


yethal said:


> How far is Detroit from where You live?


 
 Far. In Canada, above Montana.


----------



## lenroot77

hunched said:


> I just felt like getting something from Sennheiser again if I could, I'm likely getting their GSX 1000 DAC/Amp.
> I'm looking into other options for headphones now, since I've learned the HD6x0's don't have a great soundstage and the HD700 has treble spike issues.
> It would be cool if they released HD601's and HD651's with huge soundstages like the HD700 and HD800(s).
> Technically the HD800S is perfect, but it's $1500... I'm comfortable around $500.
> ...




I'd highly recommend looking into a pair of k7xx (or k712's). They have a great soundstage and do a great job positioning. Very comfortable as well. You should be able to find a pair used for 150 or 200 new.


----------



## Hunched

lenroot77 said:


> I'd highly recommend looking into a pair of k7xx (or k712's). They have a great soundstage and do a great job positioning. Very comfortable as well. You should be able to find a pair used for 150 or 200 new.


 
 They're $730 ($550 USD) at the 2 places in Canada that has them, they're $300 in the US.
 I'm starting to get pissed. 
  
 I can't even find the Schiit Magni anywhere either, I'd have to import that too and spend half of what it costs just getting it to me.
  
 I'd like to find an option where I'm not spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars more than I would if I was in the US.
 I can't actually buy these things at these prices, I'm not comfortable being a willing participant in getting scammed.
 Even if I was a billionaire, screw this on principle.


----------



## Yethal

hunched said:


> They're $730 ($550 USD) at the 2 places in Canada that has them, they're $300 in the US.
> I'm starting to get pissed.
> 
> I can't even find the Schiit Magni anywhere either, I'd have to import that too and spend half of what it costs just getting it to me.
> ...



Would it be possible to just drive to the US and buy this stuff in a phydical store?


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> Sounds like a good choice to me.


So,I got my SHP9500 yesterday. Is the hype real...YES. These are the best headphones I have personally heard and the most comfortable. I heard a song from Skillet ive heard a million times and i heard some new sounds in the middle of the song I never knew was in there. I had an emotional moment with these. I was listening to the dark knight soundtrack and i had goosebumps and a small tear forming from the emotion of the music. I've never had this experience with any other headphones. Ive owned M50x,ATH700x senheizer 598s, fidelio x2s, CALS, DT990 PRO, HYPER X CLOUD 2(my personal fav closed headphones) And this is by far the best of all of those, for me. I didnt want to like these just because everyone says they are good so I was listening for flaws and for my ears I find no flaws. These are the perfect headphones for me. Not too shabby with gaming either! Combine the amazing sound and comfort with detachable universal 3.5 cord and I have no choice to call these an 11 out of 10.


----------



## ProtegeManiac

yethal said:


> Would it be possible to just drive to the US and buy this stuff in a phydical store?


 
  
 Or order them with a hotel as a delivery address, then drive down to the hotel to pick it up. Get reservations in advance so the hotel knows they should expect it.


----------



## lenroot77

I forget who was taking about killzone a while back, but it's on a flash sale for 5 dollars this weekend.


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> I forget who was taking about killzone a while back, but it's on a flash sale for 5 dollars this weekend.


 

 If the multiplayer is still alive I highly recommend checking it out.


----------



## Evshrug

hunched said:


> They're $730 ($550 USD) at the 2 places in Canada that has them, they're $300 in the US.
> I'm starting to get pissed.
> 
> I can't even find the Schiit Magni anywhere either, I'd have to import that too and spend half of what it costs just getting it to me.
> ...



Hunched, the irony is that Lenroot is being super polite and not mentioning that he has had a pair of K712's on the classifieds for awhile. He loves them, and so did I... but there isn't really a reason to keep them if you have an HD800, LOL!
The HD800 is the better sounding headphone, but I'm just as comfortable recommending the K712, I think it's the better value headphone. Both were targeting a similar sound Signature.



lenroot77 said:


> I forget who was taking about killzone a while back, but it's on a flash sale for 5 dollars this weekend.



I think it was actually Mad. And others. The AI is stupid IIRC, but the beginning of the campaign is good and people liked the multiplayer.
I picked up Rayman Legends for $10. Been wanting that for awhile actually!


----------



## shuto77

Slightly off-topic, but has anyone here tried a new LG OLED TV with gaming, whether on console or PC? 

I'm set to close on my 1st house in a few weeks, and I'm planning out my man cave.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Slightly off-topic, but has anyone here tried a new LG OLED TV with gaming, whether on console or PC?
> 
> I'm set to close on my 1st house in a few weeks, and I'm planning out my man cave.


 

 The best resource if looking for a new screen: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> The best resource if looking for a new screen: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/




You're the man, I'll check this out.


----------



## Sam21

Console gaming sucks big time....in a couple of months my GTX1080 rig + 144hz 1ms 1440p 27inch monitor with G-Sync will be ready....it will even destroy PS5....if there is a PS5...


----------



## lenroot77

sam21 said:


> Console gaming sucks big time....in a couple of months my GTX1080 rig + 144hz 1ms 1440p 27inch monitor with G-Sync will be ready....it will even destroy PS5....if there is a PS5...


----------



## Sam21

lawl


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> Console gaming sucks big time....in a couple of months my GTX1080 rig + 144hz 1ms 1440p 27inch monitor with G-Sync will be ready....it will even destroy PS5....if there is a PS5...


----------



## lenroot77

sam21 said:


> Console gaming sucks big time....in a couple of months my GTX1080 rig + 144hz 1ms 1440p 27inch monitor with G-Sync will be ready....it will even destroy PS5....if there is a PS5...




.


----------



## themrmikemcd

lenroot77 said:


> .


 Just curious, I've always been console gamer so I dont know anything about pcs. How expensive is all that when its all said and done?


----------



## Sam21

How can you be content with consoles ? I mean how ? 60 fps ? some games output 30 FPS max!!!! That's not acceptable to me....if you like stuttering and lag then go with consoles....or save up and buy a rig that gives you at least 80+ FPS....


----------



## Yethal

sam21 said:


> How can you be content with consoles ? I mean how ? 60 fps ? some games output 30 FPS max!!!! That's not acceptable to me....if you like stuttering and lag then go with consoles....or save up and buy a rig that gives you at least 80+ FPS....


 

 Dude, don't. Just don't.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


>




 LMAO thanks Yethal! This is great!


----------



## Change is Good

"Steeam sales! And a dick so big, I can't even find a female willing to taake it!" is when I died and fell over my chair haha


----------



## Yethal

Entire series is pure gold.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> "Steeam sales! And a dick so big, I can't even find a female willing to taake it!" is when I died and fell over my chair haha


 
 As a PC Gamer......I actually found a girl and now I don't game as much on my PC as I use to  and BF1 is near......
  
 priorities man lol


----------



## Change is Good

Red f'n Dead


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because apparently console gamers can't also play on PC and vice versa.

PC lacks the PS4 exclusives (a big deal for me as someone who plays a lot of Japanese games that are console exclusive). That alone is worth consoles. I don't buy many games, but when I do it's usually something that never makes it to PC.

Though of course, I do buy the dirt cheap PC games.

Oh, as for TVs, also wanna check out http://rtings.com which also helps in the review and input lag front. They have a pretty good input lag database HERE

The Lg Oleds have input lag issues atm, and I wouldn't bite the bullet just yet on those. Basically, anything with over 40ms is a problem in terms of input response. I find 35ms or so just fine, and the lower, the better. 45ms or more, it becomes a burden

For experience, I have owned displays that have gone from 10-55ms in their game modes. Definitely try and stick to < 35. Also,realize that input lag changes depending on resolution and signal. For example, I owned the Vizio P65 which had an amazing 19.1ms input lag. However, with HDR content, the input lag is over 60ms at BEST. That goes from a very responsive TV, to a pretty bad one for HDR gaming. They're looking to fix this and get it down to about 40-ish, which is at least much better than 60+.

Right now, Im considering a 43" X800D, as it does HDR, VA panel for deep contrast, wide color gamut (though not gonna have the best blacks due to a lack of local dimming), respectable input lag, and comes in the smaller size that I want. I'm at least holding out on getting anything until after the PS4 Pro comes out.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Do X800D only go to 55"? At least here in Germany.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> Do X800D only go to 55"? At least here in Germany.




Be aware that the 49" is IPS, and I have no clue what the 55" is, since it isn't sold in the US. I'd suggest a higher line Sony/Samsung instead. The ONLY reason I'm concentrating on the 43" X800D, is because it's the ONLY one of that size to have true HDR color gamut. If I moved to 55" I'd consider probably a Samsung with a VA panel instead (like the KS8000) (bigger Sony sizes are IPS panel and not VA, meaning horrible black levels, unless you go for a X930D which happens to be bad for input lag).

If I were getting a bigger TV, I'd wait until Vizio fixes the HDR input lag on the P series, which should make them decent in input lag, but amazing in colors/blacks due to local dimming (except the 55", it's IPS.). Or if you can afford it, an LG OLED though be aware that its input lag may only be good in certain scenarios.

Honestly, I'd just wait until next year, when all the major companies should have a much bigger push for HDR, especially now that video game consoles support it.

Be aware that Samsung and LG have started selling TVs that ACCEPT HDR signals, but do not DISPLAY HDR. So, those who haven't done their homework may end up with an 'HDR' TV that doesn't do HDR. Also, IPS screens can never truly be HDR due to their really bright black levels. You lose a ton of contrast with IPS. So always make sure you know exactly what it is you're buying.

I like the idea of the Samsung KS8000, but don't like that it's motion blur is questionable. I'm very sensitive to motion blur of LCD TVs unless they have some form of strobing.

Sorry to derail my own thread.


----------



## lenroot77

I've played a little battlefield and forza with hdr on my x800d and I have to say it looks pretty nifty.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting, MLE. I'll be getting a new TV early 2018 anyway (most likely). Still rocking that 60" Sony 6 something (the only 6 model that is the same as the top model of the 8 series just without 3D)


----------



## shuto77

mad lust envy said:


> Be aware that the 49" is IPS, and I have no clue what the 55" is, since it isn't sold in the US. I'd suggest a higher line Sony/Samsung instead. The ONLY reason I'm concentrating on the 43" X800D, is because it's the ONLY one of that size to have true HDR color gamut. If I moved to 55" I'd consider probably a Samsung with a VA panel instead (like the KS8000) (bigger Sony sizes are IPS panel and not VA, meaning horrible black levels, unless you go for a X930D which happens to be bad for input lag).
> 
> If I were getting a bigger TV, I'd wait until Vizio fixes the HDR input lag on the P series, which should make them decent in input lag, but amazing in colors/blacks due to local dimming (except the 55", it's IPS.). Or if you can afford it, an LG OLED though be aware that its input lag may only be good in certain scenarios.
> 
> ...




This is very helpful. I just have to decide if I'm stuck with my "lowly" 50-inch Panasonic VT25 (best TV of 2010) until next year. 

It actually looks better than most lcds I've seen. I think it's only been the last year or so when lcds have caught up with plasmas, and even then, it's not always cut-and-dry. 


I was really hoping I could get a good 65-inch OLED by now for under $2000.


----------



## kellte2

shuto77 said:


> This is very helpful. I just have to decide if I'm stuck with my "lowly" 50-inch Panasonic VT25 (best TV of 2010) until next year.
> 
> It actually looks better than most lcds I've seen. I think it's only been the last year or so when lcds have caught up with plasmas, and even then, it's not always cut-and-dry.
> 
> ...




I have the last model of the Panasonic plasma S64, and I'm holding out on 4K/HDR until prices come down and the HDR standard solidifies. I figure late 2017 or early 2018 is a decent target. Until then, I hope the PS4 Pro will get plenty of high quality 1080p with bells and whistles enabled support.


----------



## shuto77

kellte2 said:


> I have the last model of the Panasonic plasma S64, and I'm holding out on 4K/HDR until prices come down and the HDR standard solidifies. I figure late 2017 or early 2018 is a decent target. Until then, I hope the PS4 Pro will get plenty of high quality 1080p with bells and whistles enabled support.




Yes, I'm sorry to see the death of plasma. It's a shame that the silly push to 4K killed it off in the process. 

It's too bad 2K/1440p was skipped over, as MLE pointed out.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> Be aware that the 49" is IPS, and I have no clue what the 55" is, since it isn't sold in the US. I'd suggest a higher line Sony/Samsung instead. The ONLY reason I'm concentrating on the 43" X800D, is because it's the ONLY one of that size to have true HDR color gamut. If I moved to 55" I'd consider probably a Samsung with a VA panel instead (like the KS8000) (bigger Sony sizes are IPS panel and not VA, meaning horrible black levels, unless you go for a X930D which happens to be bad for input lag).
> 
> If I were getting a bigger TV, I'd wait until Vizio fixes the HDR input lag on the P series, which should make them decent in input lag, but amazing in colors/blacks due to local dimming (except the 55", it's IPS.). Or if you can afford it, an LG OLED though be aware that its input lag may only be good in certain scenarios.
> 
> ...




Keep in mind, in spite of the deep blacks, VA panel means worse viewing angles than IPS, and worse response times (affects ghosting, separate from input lag) than IPS and TN. Since you mentioned you're sensitive to motion blur.


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> Keep in mind, in spite of the deep blacks, VA panel means worse viewing angles than IPS, and worse response times (affects ghosting, separate from input lag) than IPS and TN. Since you mentioned you're sensitive to motion blur.


 
 VA panels (high quality VA panels) should be on par with IPS in terms of viewing angles but VA panels do suffer worse from response times to some extent compared to IPS....mainly because for some reason VA panels response times seem to spike from 4ms up to the 40ms range. I dont know how to explain how that happens but I did read it somewhere in the overclockers.net forums.
  
 I own a BenQ 27inch VA monitor that honestly has done me good these past 2 years, close to 3 years actually and I can't really complain much. It's only 60hz and at 1080p but the response lag and input lag that it has is pretty small for what I use it for, mainly FPS games.
  
 My monitor seems to have an input lag of around 12ms and a response time of 4ms although there is still some ghosting, more ghosting than IPS of course but my eyes got use to it already.
  
 Also, I have read somewhere (probably on overclockers forums) that Samsung is making a new panel directed to gamers in which it may be a new and better version of the VA panel which they will try to improve, mostly on the response time or ghosting of the VA panels as well as improve color saturation and better blacks.
  
 As of now, I haven't heard much about those panels yet.
  
 I am thinking of making a switch from 1080p to 1440p IPS 144hz for next year....but for now, this 1080p monitor should do me good for another few years, considering that the PS4 Pro can do a solid 60fps 1080p gaming. That fake 4K is just a gimmick.....well not a gimmick, it works, but reducing the quality of the textures isn't a worthy trade off for me. I want the whole enchilada of 4K....
  
  
 Then again, we already have 8K creeping up on the PC side....which to be honest is overkill with the type of monitors we have currently.
  
  
 The real deal in monitors right now is going ULTRAWIDEEEEEEEEEEE
  
 21:9 is the new trend among a lot of PC gamers....it just adds another level of immersion to the game experience. I kind of hope consoles in the future will offer that 21:9 experience as well....considering that game developers implement a way to adjust FOV correctly


----------



## octiceps

rudyae86 said:


> VA panels (high quality VA panels) should be on par with IPS in terms of viewing angles but VA panels do suffer worse from response times to some extent compared to IPS....mainly because for some reason VA panels response times seem to spike from 4ms up to the 40ms range. I dont know how to explain how that happens but I did read it somewhere in the overclockers.net forums.
> 
> I own a BenQ 27inch VA monitor that honestly has done me good these past 2 years, close to 3 years actually and I can't really complain much. It's only 60hz and at 1080p but the response lag and input lag that it has is pretty small for what I use it for, mainly FPS games.
> 
> ...




Is the Panasonic DX750 not considered high-end? It definitely had off-angle color shift when tested by Eurogamer, and some uniformity issues as well, although IDK if the latter is a QC issue or inherent to VA a la IPS glow. I used to have a PVA monitor and while the viewing angles were far superior to TN, they weren't quite on-par with IPS. While it's less of an issue with PC monitors as you're gonna be looking at them straight-on most of the time, I consider viewing angles to be pretty important on TVs, especially larger ones.


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> Is the Panasonic DX750 not considered high-end? It definitely had off-angle color shift when tested by Eurogamer, and some uniformity issues as well, although IDK if the latter is a QC issue or inherent to VA a la IPS glow. I used to have a PVA monitor and while the viewing angles were far superior to TN, they weren't quite on-par with IPS. While it's less of an issue with PC monitors as you're gonna be looking at them straight-on most of the time, I consider viewing angles to be pretty important on TVs, especially larger ones.


 
 Well I did say that high end VA panels *should be* on par but of course we all know that panels have a lottery just like when us PC guys play the CPU lottery in order to get get the best CPU that overclocks the highest....so there will always be variances in the panel being used for a particular TV. We also now know how some companies (especially Samsung) use different brand panels for different TVs, some of which are some cheapo chinese panels or they might end up using their own Samsung panels (usually the cheap panels they use mainly on the lower budget tier of ther TVs, price below 500 dollars).
  
 I mean I have had 2 IPS monitors prior to this VA monitor and those IPS monitors had a good amount of lightl bleed from the corners, plus the blacks were not doing it for me, on top of other IPS cons.

 But that was 3 years ago and IPS today might have gotten better, so that's why I am looking into buying one next year.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm fully aware of VA drawbacks, such as bad off angle contrast. This doesn't matter a thing to me, as I'd be using this as a monitor, where I'd always be sitting dead center to it. IPS has horrible glow, terrible blacks, and thus much worse contrast. I won't be watching my content from the side, so IPS advantages do nothing for me. The VA response time of the X800D is actually on par with IPS. IPS screens tend to have a 4ms rating, but that is only in OPTIMAL, controlled situations. In actual testing, the response time is in the 10's and higher, which is the same realm as the best VA panels.

And as I stated before, I'm sensitive to motion blur, but the VA panels I suggest have options that strobe the backlighting.

Strobe backlighting from a VA has even better motion blur than OLEDs, TN, IPS. Even Plasmas without some motion interpolation do worse. I'll quote myself on another forum.




> OLED still has issues with eye tracking motion blur. BFI/Strobing is the last tech that needs to be added to make OLEDs utterly destroy everything currently out in terms of motion blur.
> 
> As it stands, even the worst LCDs can outdo OLEDs in motion blur as long as they have backlight strobing tech like, Nvidia's ULMB, BenQ's Blur Reduction, Sony pre-2016 Clearness at certain levels (the 2016 sets severely gimped the Clearness setting to where it's borederline useless now), Vizio's Clear Action (with Game Low Latency enabled), and some others.
> 
> ...




Bear in mind, motion blur is more than just pixel response. It's eye tracking motion blur, as well as sample and hold shortcomings. A terrible LCD with good backlight strobing can outdo the best OLEDs (unless the OLED has strobing/black frame insertion, which there are currently none of outside of VR OLED displays). The OLED's pixel response is much, much faster than either LCD, yet it looks considerably blurrier in movement, as shown above.

Trust me guys, like headphones, I do my homework on tech. I have owned (still own in the house) a Panasonic VT60 plasma (best Plasma screen before Plasma died... ZT60 was the same picture quality with a better anti-glare filter for daylight), owned a Vizio P65, a Sony X830C, and have tested an M55-C1 from last year. The latter three displays have backlight strobing tech


The X800D does have problems with the strobing backlight, where it isn't flashing at the same frequency as the signal, so it doesn't reduce motion blur as well as the examples above, but it does make it better than NOT having it on, however slight. It's currently the best small screen that has HDR/4K/etc, so desite not being as good as the year before in terms of motion handling, it's still the best choice overall for a 43".

Again, remember, this is eye tracking, pixel persistence reducing tech. OLED, Plasma, and CRT are king in terms on natural pixel response, but due to the nature of OLED having to hold the image until given a signal to refresh, it doesn't come close to reducing blurring caused by pixel persistence.

Yes, I repeat myself a lot. Lol.

In any case, backlight strobing isn't for everyone. Lots of people dislike it because it can cause headaches, can be noticeable in some instances, and may dim the screen too much for day time viewing. Everything has pros and cons.


----------



## apaar123

what abt the ath ad series?


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys my AKG K7XX are on the way, in the meantime I read A LOT about Philips SHP9500 - what do you think about them for gaming(sound-stage) and overall headphones?


----------



## Fegefeuer

K7XX over them any day.


----------



## AxelCloris

I own the SHP9500 and I'd take the K7xx over them for gaming, provided you also want to listen to music or watch movies with the headphones.


----------



## apaar123

And will you take q701 over them_?


----------



## apaar123

Can anyone compare akg k701 vs q701 vs hd598 vs ad900x please?


----------



## Ashrunner

yethal said:


> Sell a kidney and buy the Realizer A16.


 
 Does the Realizer A16 allow you to use voice chat on PS4 like mixamp?  There are so many of us who own a mixamp simply because it does what it needs to do quite well notwithstanding the horrible audio quality.   Even the X7 doesn't allow its mic in to be used w/ PS4 chat.  Why is mixamp the only DAC/amp that plays nice with consoles?


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7 works with PS4 Chat when combined with the BT-W2.


----------



## Yethal

ashrunner said:


> Does the Realizer A16 allow you to use voice chat on PS4 like mixamp?  There are so many of us who own a mixamp simply because it does what it needs to do quite well notwithstanding the horrible audio quality.   Even the X7 doesn't allow its mic in to be used w/ PS4 chat.  Why is mixamp the only DAC/amp that plays nice with consoles?



Realizer has separate chat input afaik. Also x7 works with psr chat when combined with bt-w2. And I wasn't kidding about that kidney, Realuzer costs 1600$.


----------



## Ljanmi

fegefeuer said:


> K7XX over them any day.


 
  


axelcloris said:


> I own the SHP9500 and I'd take the K7xx over them for gaming, provided you also want to listen to music or watch movies with the headphones.


 
  
  
 ThX guys, I really appreciate your opinion, now the amplification. *It will not work fine if I connect K7XX to my onboard audio?* I plan gaming single player mostly, I was looking to some integrated onboard headphone amp(600Ohms) on Asus ROG motherboards(Hero, Gene) but currently I just have a regular Z97 motherboard. Until then I am considering Asus Xonar U5 or U7. What do you think about going that way, it is cheap amplification but since I am no audiophil and at the same time I want to get all the juice out of them. Those Asus Xonar do have Dolby Headphone though which would be nice to test it in single player for game immersion. What's your opinion, is it wrong this way?


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> Be aware that the 49" is IPS, and I have no clue what the 55" is, since it isn't sold in the US. I'd suggest a higher line Sony/Samsung instead. The ONLY reason I'm concentrating on the 43" X800D, is because it's the ONLY one of that size to have true HDR color gamut. If I moved to 55" I'd consider probably a Samsung with a VA panel instead (like the KS8000) (bigger Sony sizes are IPS panel and not VA, meaning horrible black levels, unless you go for a X930D which happens to be bad for input lag).
> 
> If I were getting a bigger TV, I'd wait until Vizio fixes the HDR input lag on the P series, which should make them decent in input lag, but amazing in colors/blacks due to local dimming (except the 55", it's IPS.). Or if you can afford it, an LG OLED though be aware that its input lag may only be good in certain scenarios.
> 
> ...


I found out the hard way that my sony 55"X810C accepts HDR streaming only. So its worthless for ps4 pro HDR. Still a nice TV though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

themrmikemcd said:


> I found out the hard way that my sony 55"X810C accepts HDR streaming only. So its worthless for ps4 pro HDR. Still a nice TV though.




A few months ago, I was dead set on actually buying the 810C. Aside from the HDR, it has everything I wanted. For a great price. The only thing that stopped me was the feeling in the back of my head of "This TV is fantastic, but it's gonna be missing the one feature that companies are gonna push in the near future."

Part of me still thinks I should've went for it, because I feel HDR may not impress me as much as the superb motion handling, and 120hz PC signal capabilities.

I'm that one guy in the world that would have used Clearness 5 on that TV's motion settings.  Dim image, but CRT-like motion blur for 60hz signal, and 120hz signals if you set Clearness to 3-4.. Which is essentially perfection.

That 810C is essentially the X830C but with a VA panel, which was so much more ideal, but Sony didn't have a 43" version of.


----------



## themrmikemcd

ljanmi said:


> Guys my AKG K7XX are on the way, in the meantime I read A LOT about Philips SHP9500 - what do you think about them for gaming(sound-stage) and overall headphones?


I just bought the SHP9500. I think they are amazing for the price.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> A few months ago, I was dead set on actually buying the 810C. Aside from the HDR, it has everything I wanted. For a great price. The only thing that stopped me was the feeling in the back of my head of "This TV is fantastic, but it's gonna be missing the one feature that companies are gonna push in the near future."
> 
> Part of me still thinks I should've went for it, because I feel HDR may not impress me as much as the superb motion handling, and 120hz PC signal capabilities.
> 
> ...


I love the tv for what it does and has...but i regret not spending a few extra on the higher model with HDR. I didn't know what HDR was when I bought this TV. Sigh.. But it is a really nice tv for the price. I'm one of those weird people who like the Soap Opera effect and this Tv lets you adjust it from off to high and inbetween. Its great for gaming!


----------



## pervysage

protegemaniac said:


> Or order them with a hotel as a delivery address, then drive down to the hotel to pick it up. Get reservations in advance so the hotel knows they should expect it.




Hotel? Lol. There are package services available all around the border areas if you happen to live driving distance to the border. My border entry is like 15 minute drive so its great. I order stuff from the U.S. all the time and get it shipped to my package place (they are called Letterlock) and there are hundreds of others offering similar services. All I pay is a couple bucks to pick up my package that they hold for me. 

Coming back across the border into Canada, depending on the value of product you are bringing back (under $200 they never charge you duty/taxes). Anything over $200 you simply pay whatever your tax percentage is where you live (12% over here). 

Anyways, it's quick, painless and you save tons of money on certain items that Canada loves to charge a fortune for some reason.


----------



## Dragnerok X

Simple question: Do open-back headphones play nice with always-on voice chat while gaming? I'm worried about feedback coming through the microphone, one of the reasons why I use headphones for gaming in the first place. For reference, the headphones in question would either be a pair of Sennheiser HD 598s or AKG K702s.


----------



## lenroot77

dragnerok x said:


> Simple question: Do open-back headphones play nice with always-on voice chat while gaming? I'm worried about feedback coming through the microphone, one of the reasons why I use headphones for gaming in the first place. For reference, the headphones in question would either be a pair of Sennheiser HD 598s or AKG K702s.




You're all good sir! Open back is the way to go! If u read the firsts page the high scoring phones are majority open back. 
I've never had an issue as I'm sure most here haven't either.

Personally I'd pull for the k702's if I were you, also consider the k7xx/k712's!


----------



## Yethal

No idea how sensitive the mic gas to be to pick up sound leak from open headphones. I used 598 with ModMic and that never happened to me.


----------



## apaar123

For purely gaming is hd598 a awesome choice?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yes.

Does anyone know if the 599 offers sound improvements?


----------



## apaar123

fegefeuer said:


> Yes.
> 
> Does anyone know if the 599 offers sound improvements?


 
 thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

Did you know that on the first page of this thread there is a review of this headphone by someone very experienced about this matter?
  
 quoting Mighty Lord Entity
  


> And I'm happy to report that they are ABSOLUTELY phenomenal for gaming. They belong right up there with the best for competitive gaming. Soundstage? Check. Positional accuracy? Double check. Detail retrieval? Triple check. The trifecta. It's missing very little for those needs. The bass may be a bit too laid back for those wanting some immersion in their non-competitive gaming however.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Even the leakest planars didn't make a peep when I used a mic with them. You'd have to be blowing your ear drums out for a crazy chance for the mic to pick up the audio.


----------



## Fegefeuer

btw,
  
 plugging headphones into the PSVR autodefaults to speaker room HRTF when you play "normal" games. No need to put the glasses on.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

I would think the K712 or K7XX would be the better choice over Sennheiser 598s. My K702 65th Anniversary, which the 2 AKG I listed above sound like, have a decent amount of bass. The soundstage and Positional accuracy are insane good. I've never heard the 598s,but I used to have the PC360s, and the lack of bass to me, really hurt the experience. 

I'll be trying my new DT 990s with Battlefield 1 this weekend. Over the next few months, I'll be flipping back and forth between the K702 65th and DT 990. I also have Titanfall 2, COD 4 remastered, and COD Infinite Warfare preordered. From what I've read on them, the audio is really good. Going to be a great few months of Xbox One gaming for me. 

My gamer tag is: TheRealMaxPower, if anyone wants to team up.


----------



## apaar123

are akg k701,k702 and q701 are all equally good for gaming?


----------



## apaar123

@mad lust envy please review ath ad900x,700x and 100x


----------



## apaar123

how to check how good are my headphones for gaming?


----------



## Yethal

apaar123 said:


> how to check how good are my headphones for gaming?



Listen to Vapor album by Yosi Horikawa. It's so good it can be used for soundstage benchmark.


----------



## apaar123

yethal said:


> Listen to Vapor album by Yosi Horikawa. It's so good it can be used fir soundstage benchmark.


and where can i listen it?


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Yethal

apaar123 said:


> and where can i listen it?


 

 Youtube/Tidal/Spotify/Soundcloud


----------



## themrmikemcd

OK. So i have had the SHP9500 for a little over a week and I have to say the hype is real. For price,sound quality, comfort,connectability, and able to be driven easily..Let's just say, I'm selling my DT990 pro 250 ohm that I just bought in September on ebay($110.00) because I like the SHP9500 better than the DT990. Less harsh in the treble and I feel it has better low end. They shouldn't cost this little for what you get. Every gamer should at least try these!


----------



## Forty0z

lenroot77 said:


>




 lmaorofl


----------



## WhiteHartMart

themrmikemcd said:


> OK. So i have had the SHP9500 for a little over a week and I have to say the hype is real. For price,sound quality, comfort,connectability, and able to be driven easily..Let's just say, I'm selling my DT990 pro 250 ohm that I just bought in September on ebay($110.00) because I like the SHP9500 better than the DT990. Less harsh in the treble and I feel it has better low end. They shouldn't cost this little for what you get. Every gamer should at least try these!


 
  
 Had my 9500s for about the same time - I had reservations over the very light clamp but after some long gaming sessions I've come to appreciate that from a comfort point of view.  Paired with a VModa boom and they've turned into the best set of gaming headphones I've used. I've never been great at 'hearing' directional audio as such - even with them plugged into the PS4 pad I got a sense of space and direction I've never had before.  Now I've added a mixamp, they've been superb at identifying the direction of imminent attack in BF1


----------



## Atavax

mad lust envy said:


> Neither. Get the Shure 1540 pads. I prefer their sound the most, but I do like the Audeze leatherfree pads for comfort (they're cooler on the ears, though the sound isn't as good, IMHO)
> 
> I feel the Focuspads lose out a little on bass, which I didn't like. I haven't tried the As.


 
  
 i thought the same until i replaced my o2 with the jot, plenty of bass even with focus As.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Yep, I just put these brainwavs pads on my Creative Aurvana Live! Headphones.....not sure how I feel about this yet...seems like alot of the sound is coming more from the right side than the left side which is weird. It is 1000 times more comfortable. Ill report back after I test it for a while.


----------



## Atavax

Lust, do those Shure 1540 pads up the bass a bit? I just got some 560s, which are a lot better than my 400s in a lot of ways, but a little low in bass.


----------



## Yethal

atavax said:


> Lust, do those Shure 1540 pads up the bass a bit? I just got some 560s, which are a lot better than my 400s in a lot of ways, but a little low in bass.



I have them on my srh1840 and yes, tey do up the bass


----------



## themrmikemcd

whitehartmart said:


> Had my 9500s for about the same time - I had reservations over the very light clamp but after some long gaming sessions I've come to appreciate that from a comfort point of view.  Paired with a VModa boom and they've turned into the best set of gaming headphones I've used. I've never been great at 'hearing' directional audio as such - even with them plugged into the PS4 pad I got a sense of space and direction I've never had before.  Now I've added a mixamp, they've been superb at identifying the direction of imminent attack in BF1


yes. These are amazing headphones. I still can't believe how cheap in price these are. I love these so much. I don't suggest using these double amped however. Seems to add too much power and makes them sound bad. Explosions were getting so distorted in black Ops 3 I thought I damaged them. Mix amp is plenty of power for these.


----------



## AxelCloris

We have a pair of Astro A40 Call of Duty: Black Ops Edition headphones at the office and I've always liked the styling of Astro's headsets so I decided to grab some photos of our pair. Check out the gallery if you have a minute. Hope you guys enjoy.
  

 http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1108073/astro-a40#


----------



## themrmikemcd

Holy crap! So I decided I would change to the non leather pads for the Hyper X cloud 2 headset for music and for what ever reason I feel like the bass got tighter and better sounding. Not sure why i never changed them out before. So strange. I thought the non leather pads would make the bass less. I love music in these now with these pads on. Anyone else have these and use them with the cloth pads? I used to use these only for gaming earlier this year before getting into more expensive headphones but man, These sound great for music too!


----------



## Change is Good

Those of you in a Halloween mood should check out 'Emily wants to play' for $5. It pretty much requires listening to positional cues in order to survive, and gets pretty intense the longer you do. I'm still learning how to progress through the night but it's been a nerve-racking blast so far while using TH-X00 and mixamp.


----------



## lenroot77

The borderlands collection for Xbox one is currently free on Xbox live... get it while it lasts!!!!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Done. Thanks!


----------



## Change is Good

It's only free to play until the 30th, will be locked after it expires. Still cool for those who have time to binge play it.

And speaking of Microsoft, they announced that Dolby Atmos support will be added to the One.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> It's only free to play until the 30th, will be locked after it expires. Still cool for those who have time to binge play it.
> 
> And speaking of Microsoft, they announced that Dolby Atmos support will be added to the One.




Dang that sucks! Ain't got time for that!


----------



## nicobombai

Guys, i saw DT770 Pro 16 ohms version. Any thoughts on that? or just stick with the 80 ohms one?
 I wanna try out a closed back after using SHP9500 for a while now


----------



## PurpleAngel

nicobombai said:


> Guys, i saw DT770 Pro 16 ohms version. Any thoughts on that? or just stick with the 80 ohms one?
> I wanna try out a closed back after using SHP9500 for a while now


 
  
 As it's only 16-Ohms, it a headphone that is really intended to be plugged into a portable audio player or smartphone
 or headphone amplifier with a really low output impedance.
  
 If your looking for closed headphones to plug into a computer, check out the Soundmagic HP150 headphones.


----------



## nicobombai

purpleangel said:


> As it's only 16-Ohms, it a headphone that is really intended to be plugged into a portable audio player or smartphone
> or headphone amplifier with a really low output impedance.
> 
> If your looking for closed headphones to plug into a computer, check out the Soundmagic HP150 headphones.


 
  
 Yep i got that point already. Will check them out thanks.


----------



## PopSmith

I'm looking to get a pair of headphones for playing Overwatch and PvP SWTOR. They are solely going to be used for gaming, with 85% of that time being group situations. I am also interested in streaming so I have a _Q502USB_ and _PDMIC58_ (plus a mic boom and pop filter) sitting in a cart. That (new) equipment runs about $100. That being said, after looking over this guide I was looking at either the _K612 Pro_ or _K702_. I'm not sure if it makes a difference on needing an amp or not but my current mobo is a *ASUS Z170-A.*
  
 I'm trying to keep it all to <$500 (and I already have a camera). I'm OK with buying used gear, other than the headphones. My biggest question is about purchasing an amp, I'm really unsure of what to even look for. Does the use the Q502USB mixer change what headphone amp I should buy?


----------



## PurpleAngel

popsmith said:


> I'm looking to get a pair of headphones for playing Overwatch and PvP SWTOR. They are solely going to be used for gaming, with 85% of that time being group situations. I am also interested in streaming so I have a _Q502USB_ and _PDMIC58_ (plus a mic boom and pop filter) sitting in a cart. That (new) equipment runs about $100. That being said, after looking over this guide I was looking at either the _K612 Pro_ or _K702_. I'm not sure if it makes a difference on needing an amp or not but my current mobo is a *ASUS Z170-A.*
> 
> I'm trying to keep it all to <$500 (and I already have a camera). I'm OK with buying used gear, other than the headphones. My biggest question is about purchasing an amp, I'm really unsure of what to even look for. Does the use the Q502USB mixer change what headphone amp I should buy?


 
  
 Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones ($100-$140) and the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card ($50-$70)
 Maybe buy them used
  
 The SB-Z with AD700X will give you a nice FPS gaming setup, for way under your $500 budget.


----------



## themrmikemcd

popsmith said:


> I'm looking to get a pair of headphones for playing Overwatch and PvP SWTOR. They are solely going to be used for gaming, with 85% of that time being group situations. I am also interested in streaming so I have a _Q502USB_ and _PDMIC58_ (plus a mic boom and pop filter) sitting in a cart. That
> (new) equipment runs about $100.
> That being said, after looking over this guide I was looking at either the _K612 Pro_ or _K702_. I'm not sure if it makes a difference on needing an amp or not but my current mobo is a *ASUS Z170-A.*
> 
> ...


My number 1 recommendation for headphones under $100 For gaming is the Phillips SHP9500.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> We have a pair of Astro A40 Call of Duty: Black Ops Edition headphones at the office and I've always liked the styling of Astro's headsets so I decided to grab some photos of our pair. Check out the gallery if you have a minute. Hope you guys enjoy.
> 
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/g/a/1108073/astro-a40#


 

 Did You gave them a listen? Any improvement over the previous a40s?


----------



## kayan

I have an Xbox 1S and a new Smart TV with Bluetooth capability. I'm curious about a Bluetooth headphone that could not only pair to the TV, but also either pair with the X1S or plug into the jack on an Xbox controller for audio/mic purposes. Is there anything like this that wouldn't require a Mixamp (or something else similar) to be plugged in first?
  
 And if I may be even more picky, is there anything in an open back design?
  
 Thanks.


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Did You gave them a listen? Any improvement over the previous a40s?


 
  
 I have no sonic memory of the old A40s and I only listened to these very briefly. I just liked the styling so I photographed them.


----------



## Azurik

Hi guys, long time reader but finally first time poster here so go easy

I just wondered if anybody is using the built in DTS headphone x with their Samsung TV's over Bluetooth?

Dolby headphone for example requires a 5.1/ 7.1 signal, which then gets translated in to virtual surround for headphones. My Astro mixamp 5.8 is connected via optical to my PS4 and all settings are correct (optical, bitstream Dolby). 

Now my question is, what do set the PS4 to in order to get correct DTS headphone x?

Since the PS4 is connected via hdmi directly to the TV, do I send pcm (Stereo) over hdmi or Dolby? 

Does dts x require a 5.1/ 7.1 source to work or does it not matter what signal it gets? I know that some turtle beach headsets have dts headphone x but the PS4 needs to be set to bitstream Dolby for them to work correctly. Same with the TAC. 

I did try both options. When I set the PS4 to hdmi pcm everything seems ok including sounds from the rear but I don't know if that's just like Dolby headphone converting a stereo signal. 

If I set the PS4 to hdmi Dolby I get a slight annoying delay which cannot be adjusted. I do not know if that's because of Bluetooth latency (no delay on hdmi pcm), but the rear sounds seem better.

Sorry for the long post. Just wondered if anybody had a go on their compatible TVs.


----------



## lenroot77

Have a sealed copy of Halo 5 and a Halo collection download code; Anyone wanna trade something for these? Xbox one/PS4 games, headphones???

Pm me


----------



## PurpleAngel

azurik said:


> Hi guys, long time reader but finally first time poster here so go easy
> I just wondered if anybody is using the built in DTS headphone x with their Samsung TV's over Bluetooth?
> Dolby headphone for example requires a 5.1/ 7.1 signal, which then gets translated in to virtual surround for headphones. My Astro mix-amp 5.8 is connected via optical to my PS4 and all settings are correct (optical, bitstream Dolby).
> Now my question is, what do set the PS4 to in order to get correct DTS headphone x?
> ...


 
  
 When sending audio over HDMI, can't see a good reason for using Dolby, just set the source device (PS4) to PCM and 6-channel (5.1) or 8-channel (7.1) output.
 Can we assume your Samsung TV comes built in with DTS Headphone X, listed as a feature?
 As the PS4 does not come with built in support for DTS Headphone X, not sure why your expecting to get DTS Headphone X from it?
 Not understanding how the TV's Bluetooth comes into play, assuming you have no speakers or headphone connected to the TV, using Bluetooth?


----------



## Azurik

purpleangel said:


> When sending audio over HDMI, can't see a good reason for using Dolby, just set the source device (PS4) to PCM and 6-channel (5.1) or 8-channel (7.1) output.
> Can we assume your Samsung TV comes built in with DTS Headphone X, listed as a feature?
> As the PS4 does not come with built in support for DTS Headphone X, not sure why your expecting to get DTS Headphone X from it?
> Not understanding how the TV's Bluetooth comes into play, assuming you have no speakers or headphone connected to the TV, using Bluetooth?




Sorry if I wasn't very clear. The newer Samsung TV's have dts headphone x built in as a feature, however it's only available over Bluetooth. I have the option of playing normal stereo sound or I can activate headphone surround. 

The question was what signal the source would need to send to the TV, so the built in dts headphone x decoder can work properly. As I said I know that Dolby headphone needs a 5.1 or more to work correctly so I wondered if dts headphone x needs the same, or something else


----------



## henhowc

any impressions on the quality of the recently released astro a50 gen 3?


----------



## PurpleAngel

azurik said:


> Sorry if I wasn't very clear. The newer Samsung TV's have dts headphone x built in as a feature, however it's only available over Bluetooth. I have the option of playing normal stereo sound or I can activate headphone surround.
> 
> The question was what signal the source would need to send to the TV, so the built in dts headphone x decoder can work properly. As I said I know that Dolby headphone needs a 5.1 or more to work correctly so I wondered if dts headphone x needs the same, or something else


 
 Using HDMI and setting the source's audio to PCM (not Dolby) and max channels, 6 (5.1) or 8 (7.1) or more, would give the DTS Headphone X the best possible signal, for DTS Headphone X to do it's job.
 Guessing your Samsung TV might decode Dolby bitstream or DTS bitsteam, but think it's better just to send the signal using PCM.


----------



## shuto77

Has anyone tried pad-rolling with the Philips SHP9500? I've seen reports of success with Alpha Pads (my favorite-ever pads) to increase bass response.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Has anyone tried pad-rolling with the Philips SHP9500? I've seen reports of success with Alpha Pads (my favorite-ever pads) to increase bass response.


 

 Try SRH1540 Alcantara pads.


----------



## kl0wn

I'm a bit confused as to which connection I should use to connect to my Sound Blaster Z. If I were to get the ATH-M50x (I don't have these just using as an example) and wanted to connect to my sound card in my pc for gaming, would I be best to use an amp and use an optical connection to it? Is there a more prefered method? Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

kl0wn said:


> I'm a bit confused as to which connection I should use to connect to my Sound Blaster Z. If I were to get the ATH-M50x (I don't have these just using as an example) and wanted to connect to my sound card in my pc for gaming, would I be best to use an amp and use an optical connection to it? Is there a more preferred method? Thanks


 
  
 For something like the ATH-M50X headphones, might as well connect it directly to the SB-Z's headphone jack.
 Check out the Soundmagic HP150 (closed) headphone and HP200 (semi-open) headphones.


----------



## TeeReQs

First off, I want to thank MLE and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. Such a wealth of information and I've used it countless times to research different headsets, mixamps, etc.
  
*Background:*
  
 Right now, on my PC I'm using a Creative X-Fi Titanium HD paired with a  Massdrop O2 amp and AKG K7XX's w/ mod mic. I also have a Schiit Magni, but prefer the O2.
  
 I also play on Xbox One and PS4 with two different setups. For PS4 I'm using a DSS2, and Xbox is using an old Creative Extigy. Both are paired to a set of Kingston Hyper X Clouds for virtual surround.
  
 In the past I was pretty much a console gamer only, but now I play about 50/50 PC/console. The majority of my time is spent playing FPS (Call of Duty, BF, CS:GO, etc.), so positional cues, and accuracy are number one for me, followed by sound quality, which I think I have covered with the K7XX..now I just need a do it all mixamp.
  
 Like most of you, I've had a number of different setups..Xbox 360/Xbox One include: Triton AX360, Turtle Beach HPX w/ Creative Extigy, Turtle Beach HPX/Astro Mixamp, Razer Orca/Astro Mixamp, AD700/Astro Mixamp and now Kingston Hyper X with Creative Extigy. Out of all of these I think I've gotten the best positional cues from the Astro Mixamp/AD700 or Turtle Beach HPX/Extigy.
  
 On PC, before I bought the X-Fi Titanium I had a Asus Xonar DGX paired with Razer Orcas, and for whatever reason I still feel that setup had better positional cues, and was easier to pinpoint footsteps than the X-Fi. I've tried multiple different settings and still doesn't seem as accurate, although I know the sound quality is much improved with the K7XX and O2. I think I might just be so used to Dolby Surround after using the Mixamp and Extigy for so long.
  
 Having said all that...I'd like to be able to consolidate all of my setups into one, and the Sound Blaster X7 intrigues me. I'd like to be able to get rid of the X-Fi + O2, DSS2, Extigy, HyperX Clouds and replace them all with the X7 and K7XX w/ mod mic. My plan would be to run USB from the X7 to PC, and Optical to both the PS4 and Xbox with a splitter since the X7 only as one optical in. I don't want to have to unplug one or the other anytime I used them. Will that work? 
  
 I know this thread is geared more towards console sound setups, but will I be giving up anything going to the X7 from the X-Fi Titanium HD? If anybody has experience doing what I want to do, or coming from a similar setup, I'd really appreciate the feedback.  Sorry for rambling..


----------



## PurpleAngel

teereqs said:


> Right now, on my PC I'm using a Creative X-Fi Titanium HD paired with a  Massdrop O2 amp and AKG K7XX's w/ mod mic. I also have a Schiit Magni, but prefer the O2.
> I also play on Xbox One and PS4 with two different setups. For PS4 I'm using a DSS2, and Xbox is using an old Creative Extigy. Both are paired to a set of Kingston Hyper X Clouds for virtual surround.
> In the past I was pretty much a console gamer only, but now I play about 50/50 PC/console. The majority of my time is spent playing FPS (Call of Duty, BF, CS:GO, etc.), so positional cues, and accuracy are number one for me, followed by sound quality, which I think I have covered with the K7XX..now I just need a do it all mixamp.
> Out of all of these I think I've gotten the best positional cues from the Astro Mixamp/AD700 or Turtle Beach HPX/Extigy.
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the PC's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before installing the Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) sound card?
  
 Have you considered just spending (under $10?) for an audio switch box?
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013207KHA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADWKD39T6DNQP
 Connect the DSS2, Extigy & Ti-HD to the audio switch box and the O2 amp to the switch box.
 Some switch box's come with a third (yellow) RCA connection for video, which could be used for the mic signal.


----------



## TeeReQs

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the PC's on-board audio, in the BIOS, before installing the Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) sound card?
> 
> Have you considered just spending (under $10?) for an audio switch box?
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013207KHA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ADWKD39T6DNQP
> ...


 
 I did disable the on board sound. Don't get me wrong, the X-Fi sounds great, but from what I remember it was easier to tell where footsteps were coming from using the Dolby on the Xonar DGX vs the CMSS on the X-Fi. This could all be in my head though, as I sold the dgx to a friend and haven't tried them back to back.
  
 The switch could be a good idea, but the main reason I was looking at the X7 was to get rid of some wires, and have all the audio be the same across 3 devices. At the very least I could get an Astro Mixamp, or use either the DSS2 or Extigy for both Xbox and PS4 with some sort of switch, and continue to use the X-Fi on PC. On the other hand if $350 for the X7 isn't going to net be any sort of gains on the PC side of things, I might reevaluate my decision.


----------



## PurpleAngel

teereqs said:


> I did disable the on board sound. Don't get me wrong, the X-Fi sounds great, but from what I remember it was easier to tell where footsteps were coming from using the Dolby on the Xonar DGX vs the CMSS on the X-Fi. This could all be in my head though, as I sold the DGX to a friend and haven't tried them back to back.
> 
> The switch could be a good idea, but the main reason I was looking at the X7 was to get rid of some wires, and have all the audio be the same across 3 devices. At the very least I could get an Astro Mix-amp, or use either the DSS2 or Extigy for both Xbox and PS4 with some sort of switch, and continue to use the X-Fi on PC. On the other hand if $350 for the X7 isn't going to net be any sort of gains on the PC side of things, I might reevaluate my decision.


 
 The X7 & Ti-HD uses the same type of DAC chips and op-amps, so audio quality would be nice with the X7
 To get the X7's audio quality with both gaming consoles, your might need an optical switch box, to share the X7's one optical input port.
 With the Creative X7, you might(?) be able to eliminate the DSS2, but your still looking at a lot of wires, the X7 does not come with line-outputs, for microphone connection to the gaming consoles (or to the Extigy?).
 Might need to use both the DSS2 & Extigy, for their line-inputs (mic)
  
 Some people do prefer Dolby Headphone, over Creative's CMSS-3D or SBX (not my place to judge).
 You could replace the Ti-HD with an Asus Xonar DX sound card (used $40-$60).
 So for the cost of the Xonar DX and audio switch box, you could get away with using one headphone and one mic, for all three.


----------



## TeeReQs

purpleangel said:


> The X7 & Ti-HD uses the same type of DAC chips and op-amps, so audio quality would be nice with the X7
> To get the X7's audio quality with both gaming consoles, your might need an optical switch box, to share the X7's one optical input port.
> With the Creative X7, you might(?) be able to eliminate the DSS2, but your still looking at a lot of wires, the X7 does not come with line-outputs, for microphone connection to the gaming consoles (or to the Extigy?).
> Might need to use both the DSS2 & Extigy, for their line-inputs (mic)
> ...


 
 That's good to know about the X7 vs X-Fi. Doesn't sound like I would be going backwards in terms of sound quality, at least. I believe I have an optical split box that I could use for the consoles. I know I won't be able to get rid of all the wires, but at least some of them, and just having the same audio processing across all three devices would be nice Not to mention freeing up some desk space. For the microphone I was planning on using the Creative BT-W2 module for PS4, and running the mic wire directly into the controller like I'm doing now with the Extigy on Xbox.
  
 I talked my friend into sending me the Xonar DGX I gave him awhile back. Curious to see if I still feel the same about Dolby Headphone. I think I'm going to pick up a 2013 Mixamp Pro as well, just so I can try out everything back to back. They're cheap and easy to re sell. Shoot, might as well try a G5 while I'm at it.. I've apparently gotten the itch to explore all options haha.
  
 I think if I _do _end up preferring Dolby Headphone over SBX/CMSS the Xonar DGX for PC and DSS2/Mixamp for both consoles would be the best option.
  
 Thanks for all the input angel, gives me some options to think about.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, I think you've got a pretty solid idea of how to manage your setups.

Now, I've not owned an X-Fi Titanium HD before, but I have had an X7 since it came out. The X7 DOES have a line-out (two RCA's on the back, included RCA to TRRS adapter if needed), and a firmware update this year allowed the X7 to output the headphone-surround processed mix to be output through the line-out, if you desired to connect it to your O2. The X7 ought to be pretty close to the O2 anyway, and I'm working on a review of some upgraded OpAmps that elevated the amping audio experience even more. The old X-Fi and the newer X7 do share the same DAC and primary amp chips, BUT the electronics and design in general was improved for lower output impedance and better signal to noise ratio... you would experience a better sense of space and less distortion with purely stereo content, and I feel the surround processing takes those aspects even further. Dolby Headphone surround processing indeed is good, but it still sounds to me like speakers in a room (with a little bit of fuzzy bloom) rather than more transparent like the environment of the game. Though DH slightly exaggerates bass and makes treble slightly recessed/distant, I feel like SBX is ironically more immersive because it's more believable while DH is more competitive because it sounds more processed. Ask me another day and I might explain it a different way, but I'll always say pick according to what works for you 

The BT-W2 module does keep the setup rather clean, and give you all the mic options of the X7.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

Has anyone tested either of the EL-8s in regards to gaming? Am kind of curious about this.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, with its closed in soundstage and blobby imaging I don't think it's worth considering. Stick to the proven headphones that stood the test of time. K7XX, HD 800, HD 598, X2 etc.


----------



## Yethal

I'm so buying another set of alcantara pads. These are amazing on everything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm glad they're doing it for you. If I was still reviewing headphones, I'd always make sure to have those pads on hands for those eventual times when I'd have headphones that have leather pads.

And OMG Sennheiser HD6XX for $200! Them being HD650s in Massdrop skin. The 650s are one of my absolute fave all rounders, and I'd go for these in a heartbeat if I were in a market for balanced headphones with a fatigue free sound. As long as you have some good amping.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Agree. They are simply marvellous. Go Modi Multibit + Jotunheim and GO HOME FOREVER TOGETHER AND EVER AND EVER, TOGETHER FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> I'm glad they're doing it for you. If I was still reviewing headphones, I'd always make sure to have those pads on hands for those eventual times when I'd have headphones that have leather pads.
> 
> And OMG Sennheiser HD6XX for $200! Them being HD650s in Massdrop skin. The 650s are one of my absolute fave all rounders, and I'd go for these in a heartbeat if I were in a market for balanced headphones with a fatigue free sound. As long as you have some good amping.




Tossed up between k7xx, x2 and hd6xx for literally all day use, everyday listening on my pc. Gaming (mostly), YouTube, music etc. owned a hd650 briefly and loved their sound but they weren't the best for gaming. Owned an x2 twice but had issues with comfort, have lost 90 pounds since then (head god smaller lol). Never owned the k7xx, not sure if I should hop on that bandwagon next.


----------



## Fegefeuer

why? You have a TH-X00 and a SHP9500, yet you want a K7XX as well? That's mid-fi purgatory. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 I miss the Chicolomist


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> why? You have a TH-X00 and a SHP9500, yet you want a K7XX as well? That's mid-fi purgatory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 What happened to him?


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> I'm glad they're doing it for you. If I was still reviewing headphones, I'd always make sure to have those pads on hands for those eventual times when I'd have headphones that have leather pads.
> 
> And OMG Sennheiser HD6XX for $200! Them being HD650s in Massdrop skin. The 650s are one of my absolute fave all rounders, and I'd go for these in a heartbeat if I were in a market for balanced headphones with a fatigue free sound. As long as you have some good amping.




I'm am all over these! Glad I sold my 650's a month or two back. Have to say this is 1 of the 2 headphones I've put on and was instantly smitten with. 
Such a rich sound!


----------



## Change is Good

Maybe if it was a rebranded 600 I'd bite. Always been curious about that one. I'm not a fan of rich, n-shaped sound signatures so this one's a pass.


----------



## inseconds99

fegefeuer said:


> why? You have a TH-X00 and a SHP9500, yet you want a K7XX as well? That's mid-fi purgatory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Owned TH-900 and HD800's, I loved them both but price to play was a little to high. I am doing tons of gaming and general computer usage and I just want some all day comfort headphones that are great with gaming. 
  
 SHP9500 become too hot on the ears and start bothering me after an hour and the THx00 are just not very good for gaming.
  
 If I had a choice of headphones it would be to repurchase the th900 but they're honestly more then I want to spend currently. Or the HD6xx as I liked my hd650's but they were just not all that great for gaming.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## TeeReQs

evshrug said:


> Yeah, I think you've got a pretty solid idea of how to manage your setups.
> 
> Now, I've not owned an X-Fi Titanium HD before, but I have had an X7 since it came out. The X7 DOES have a line-out (two RCA's on the back, included RCA to TRRS adapter if needed), and a firmware update this year allowed the X7 to output the headphone-surround processed mix to be output through the line-out, if you desired to connect it to your O2. The X7 ought to be pretty close to the O2 anyway, and I'm working on a review of some upgraded OpAmps that elevated the amping audio experience even more. The old X-Fi and the newer X7 do share the same DAC and primary amp chips, BUT the electronics and design in general was improved for lower output impedance and better signal to noise ratio... you would experience a better sense of space and less distortion with purely stereo content, and I feel the surround processing takes those aspects even further. Dolby Headphone surround processing indeed is good, but it still sounds to me like speakers in a room (with a little bit of fuzzy bloom) rather than more transparent like the environment of the game. Though DH slightly exaggerates bass and makes treble slightly recessed/distant, I feel like SBX is ironically more immersive because it's more believable while DH is more competitive because it sounds more processed. Ask me another day and I might explain it a different way, but I'll always say pick according to what works for you
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks Ev! Good to know about the X7/X-Fi. I'm curious to see your findings with the upgrade OpAmps. I think before I take the plunge into an X7, I need to decide whether I prefer Dolby Headphone vs CMSS/SBX.
  
 Do you think sound quality on PC will take a significant hit going from X-Fi DAC to the the Xonar DGX? If so, I'm wondering if a Xonar Essence STX II would be a better replacement to pair with the K7XX, and be able to use DH. I was listening to music last night while reading hundreds of pages on this thread and the AKG's sounds so good. I don't want to give up my music SQ on PC if I can help it.
  
 I think from prior experience I prefer Dolby Headphone, but on the contrary I feel my older Extigy using CMSS is a better sounding device than the DSS2. That's just in terms of clarity. I haven't had the DSS2 for that long though, and haven't really been able to find the best setting in terms of eq and surround positioning. I've decided I'm going to buy a Mixamp Pro 2013, double amp it with either my magni or O2 and test that against everything I have.. Seems like the 2013 version is the one to get as I've heard a lot of complaints on the new TR being very tinny. I do like the ability to make custom presets though.. I guess once I figure out which virtual surround processing I like the most, I can go from there. I still think I might have to buy an X7 to at least try it out though. I really just need to ditch the HyperX's and use my K7XX's on everything.
  
 On a side note, the HD6XX sparks my interest for daily drivers when I'm not gaming.. Down the rabbit hole I go..


----------



## PurpleAngel

teereqs said:


> Thanks Ev! Good to know about the X7/X-Fi. I'm curious to see your findings with the upgrade OpAmps. I think before I take the plunge into an X7, I need to decide whether I prefer Dolby Headphone vs CMSS/SBX.
> Do you think sound quality on PC will take a significant hit going from X-Fi DAC to the the Xonar DGX? If so, I'm wondering if a Xonar Essence STX II would be a better replacement to pair with the K7XX, and be able to use DH. I was listening to music last night while reading hundreds of pages on this thread and the AKG's sounds so good. I don't want to give up my music SQ on PC if I can help it.
> I think from prior experience I prefer Dolby Headphone, but on the contrary I feel my older Extigy using CMSS is a better sounding device than the DSS2. That's just in terms of clarity. I haven't had the DSS2 for that long though, and haven't really been able to find the best setting in terms of eq and surround positioning. I've decided I'm going to buy a Mix-amp Pro 2013, double amp it with either my Magni or O2 and test that against everything I have.. Seems like the 2013 version is the one to get as I've heard a lot of complaints on the new TR being very tinny. I do like the ability to make custom presets though.. I guess once I figure out which virtual surround processing I like the most, I can go from there. I still think I might have to buy an X7 to at least try it out though. I really just need to ditch the HyperX's and use my K7XX's on everything.
> On a side note, the HD6XX sparks my interest for daily drivers when I'm not gaming.. Down the rabbit hole I go..


 
  
 If you install the Xonar DGX and decide you prefer Dolby to CMSS-3D, you might consider buying a used ($100?) Asus Xonar D2X sound card and connect whatever external headphone amplifier (O2 or Magni or other) you might be using to it.
 The Xonar D2X is really just like the original STX, but without a built in headphone amplifier.
 I would rated the O2 (& Magni) headphone amplifier a little more desirable, then the one built into the Xonar STX/STX II 
  
 I'm seriously considering buying the Massdrop (Senn) HD6XX headphones myself.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> What happened to him?



He still reads the thread, from time to time. He may have upgraded his headphone, but he started talking about Custom-building his PC rig and then wasn't a regular poster anymore. I could be wrong remembering him settling on the Q701 (and kinda wishing that one day he could save up for an HD800... well I made it man! Made easier that used ones now are almost half the price of new HD800's back then), and I guess he was satisfied and hit endgame. Miss his wit though!

Gosh, just had an unsettling feeling. I hope I don't get bored of headphones and gaming once I am married next Sunday (the 12th). Preparing for that has kept me busy and tired lately, but I always assumed I'd eventually be back FULL FORCE! 




teereqs said:


> Thanks Ev! Good to know about the X7/X-Fi. I'm curious to see your findings with the upgrade OpAmps. I think before I take the plunge into an X7, I need to decide whether I prefer Dolby Headphone vs CMSS/SBX.



In short, I've really grown to appreciate swappable OpAmps as a feature and it elevated the X7 to a midpoint between a good desktop amp and a high-end desktop amp; a solid value upgrade for the price. I've gotta post my review soon because it's driving me MAD and I feel like I'm overdue to be done with it, lol. Full disclosure, my almost 2 years old X7 developed an odd audio artifact which was becoming more and more noticeable before I got the Burson Audio v5i OpAmps, and I was hoping to get it sorted before posting my final review, but Creative sent two automated emails without actually responding yet. I think I'll just have to comment on the v5i's merits separately from the pre-existing problem, and hope that I can get the problem sorted when I'm not busy and tired.



> Do you think sound quality on PC will take a significant hit going from X-Fi DAC to the the Xonar DGX? If so, I'm wondering if a Xonar Essence STX II would be a better replacement to pair with the K7XX, and be able to use DH. I was listening to music last night while reading hundreds of pages on this thread and the AKG's sounds so good. I don't want to give up my music SQ on PC if I can help it.
> 
> I think from prior experience I prefer Dolby Headphone, but on the contrary I feel my older Extigy using CMSS is a better sounding device than the DSS2. {snipped...}
> 
> On a side note, the HD6XX sparks my interest for daily drivers when I'm not gaming.. Down the rabbit hole I go...



I do think that the DGX should have an inferior DAC to the X7, which would be noticeable even if you used your O2. I haven't heard the DGX though, and if the DGX supports digital output to another DAC while passing along the Dolby Headphone mix, then the sound quality difference between any of the Asus sound cards would be moot (other than price you paid). If you just want Dolby Headphone, then forget about any of the cards and just buy the U3 or whatever's cheapest, and use an optical output to a Modi, Bifrost, Mojo, or some other DAC.

The beauty of the X7, however, is that you don't need to connect a separate amp, or a separate DAC. Techradar stated exactly what I'm talking about in their recent review of the M2 DAP: "But daisy-chaining devices to your phone can be a right royal pain in the AAC." I only use one gaming console, but even a single Optical switcher would IMO be preferable to having separate whole systems for two consoles, my PC/Mac, and my smartphone. Sure, a Jotunheim amp + Bifrost Multibit DAC or better would beat the X7 for audio quality (and you even could optical-output to such a DAC), but the X7 is a solid desktop-class performer and will outperform any Mixamp/DSS/portable sub-$200 setup with surround DSP out there.

You wanna talk about how deep the rabbit hole goes... I backed the Smyth Realiser A16 campaign this summer on Kickstarter! Excited for that, though I feel like I'll be waiting 3/4 of a year to get it.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh wow, ironically I just got an email from Creative 30 minutes ago. It just asks if I have the latest firmware, and if I have mic monitoring (and thus a feedback loop of the X7 mic hearing the... headphone, I guess). At least finally the process is starting!

(It's probably not obvious, but I spent the whole day driving from errand to errand, ate dinner and crashed/slept on the couch for a few hours, and I just woke up recently when my Fiancé came home)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd consider the HD650/6XX the perfect alternative to any headphone. It's just smooth, luscious, and inviting. Like the kind of headphone you can immediately relax to and be pleased by it's tonal character. If you already own something more exciting and energetic, I'd say the 650 is a perfect complementary set of cans, if probably not outright better than your other set.

The price makes me really want them, but I'm out of that game. Funny how Chocolom and I are following similar paths. 

My 'free' money is going towards other things, like the eventual PC build that I've been hanging on building until at least the 7700K/1080TI comes out. That and I still need a display, and have been DYING to get, but all this HDR bidnezz has kept me waiting and waiting until there is a display that can do SDR and HDR well with low input lag. PC games don't seem to have HDR capability quite yet, probably not until next year, so I need something that does SDR lag just fine. It seems TVs now either do input lag well on SDR but bad in HDR or vice versa.

Half tempted on buying a cheap non-HDR 4K set for now, and hanging on until OLED's become cheaper/smaller. The price of OLEDs are currently really good, but LG's new OLEDs are likely out in two-three months, and I wanna see how it improves, before taking the plunge.


----------



## mashuto

Hello everyone. I must say this thread is a little intimidating to get into, so I do apologize if the things I am asking have been asked before because with over 2000 pages, its really hard to find anything.
  
 Basically, I am at a point where I think its time to upgrade some gear. The Massdrop Sennheiser 6XX are looking very appealing to me from a general audio standpoint, but I am also looking to make sure my gaming rig can keep up. I dont necessarily care about having the absolute best for gaming, just looking for a good pair of headphones that will be good for gaming but also sound great for everything else. The 6XX looks like it might fit that bill. I currently run a hyperx cloud, which has been adequate, but nothing spectacular either. This was coming from a pair of Sennheiser HD 555's that had really started to fall apart on me, the switch was also so that I could have a headset with a mic. So either way, the 6XX just looks like such a good deal and such a good all around pair that I am thinking it should fit the bill nicely. May not be the absolutely best for gaming, but hopefully good enough. And I was thinking of getting a modmic and sticking i on there.
  
 On the PC side, I am running an old Xonar D1, which is partially broken due to a stupid past roomate and his dog. It still functions fine, but the actual headphone jack port was ripped out. I can still hold it in place fairly well, but its old and needs to be updated. I use Dolby Headphone, and really like the positional audio I get from it. I am used to it and have been using it for years as a replacement for a full surround system and am pretty happy with the positional audio I get. So, I am at a point where I am considering upgrading sound cards, but also looking for something that could serve reasonably well as an amp for any new headphones I get. I see there has been some discussion here between some of the sound blaster cards and their virtual 3d audio vs dolby headphone, but I am also not sure if its better to look for a higher end sound card with a build in headphone amp or look for something standalone. I have looked at the schitt magni, which I think could make a very nice addition, and would make cable management a little easier so i dont have to have the headphones plugged directly into the back of my pc. So, I really am not sure the best direction to go in terms of the PC itself, and again, I realize it has probably been discussed to death, but this thread is huge and intimidating, so again forgive me for asking.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mashuto said:


> Hello everyone. I must say this thread is a little intimidating to get into, so I do apologize if the things I am asking have been asked before because with over 2000 pages, its really hard to find anything.
> 
> Basically, I am at a point where I think its time to upgrade some gear. The Massdrop Sennheiser 6XX are looking very appealing to me from a general audio standpoint, but I am also looking to make sure my gaming rig can keep up. I dont necessarily care about having the absolute best for gaming, just looking for a good pair of headphones that will be good for gaming but also sound great for everything else. The 6XX looks like it might fit that bill. I currently run a hyperx cloud, which has been adequate, but nothing spectacular either. This was coming from a pair of Sennheiser HD 555's that had really started to fall apart on me, the switch was also so that I could have a headset with a mic. So either way, the 6XX just looks like such a good deal and such a good all around pair that I am thinking it should fit the bill nicely. May not be the absolutely best for gaming, but hopefully good enough. And I was thinking of getting a modmic and sticking i on there.
> 
> On the PC side, I am running an old Xonar D1, which is partially broken due to a stupid past roomate and his dog. It still functions fine, but the actual headphone jack port was ripped out. I can still hold it in place fairly well, but its old and needs to be updated. I use Dolby Headphone, and really like the positional audio I get from it. I am used to it and have been using it for years as a replacement for a full surround system and am pretty happy with the positional audio I get. So, I am at a point where I am considering upgrading sound cards, but also looking for something that could serve reasonably well as an amp for any new headphones I get. I see there has been some discussion here between some of the sound blaster cards and their virtual 3d audio vs dolby headphone, but I am also not sure if its better to look for a higher end sound card with a build in headphone amp or look for something standalone. I have looked at the schitt magni, which I think could make a very nice addition, and would make cable management a little easier so i dont have to have the headphones plugged directly into the back of my pc. So, I really am not sure the best direction to go in terms of the PC itself, and again, I realize it has probably been discussed to death, but this thread is huge and intimidating, so again forgive me for asking.


 
  
 The Xonar D1 (PCI) & DX (PCI-E) sound cards come with a fairly nice CS4398 DAC chip.
 You might consider replacing your damaged D1 with the DX card (used $40-$60) and connecting an external headphone amplifer (Magni?) to the sound card.
 Or maybe a used Xonar D2X (used $93) and use it with an external head amp.
 The Xonar D1/DX (& D2X) do not really come with I would call a "true" headphone amplifer, more like a line-output port that pretends to also be a headphone jack.
 So adding the Magni to a Xonar DX (or D2X) might make a decent improvement in the HyperX Cloud.
 But still think you should go for the Massdrop HD6XX, I'm planning on buying one myself


----------



## mashuto

purpleangel said:


> The Xonar D1 (PCI) & DX (PCI-E) sound cards come with a fairly nice CS4398 DAC chip.
> You might consider replacing your damaged D1 with the DX card (used $40-$60) and connecting an external headphone amplifer (Magni?) to the sound card.
> Or maybe a used Xonar D2X (used $93) and use it with an external head amp.
> The Xonar D1/DX (& D2X) do not really come with I would call a "true" headphone amplifer, more like a line-output port that pretends to also be a headphone jack.
> ...


 

 Hmm, almost sounds like getting a new soundcard isn't worth it at all for me. Yes my current soundcard is broken, but it hasnt really affected how I use it and doesnt affect the sound at all. Its just one of things that sometimes is an inconvenience and a reason for me to look at upgrades.
  
 So, if I was to get a magni, what would the setup be like? Just need a normal headphone jack cable that splits to the red and white for input to the magni, and thats it? Besides a 1/4" adapter for my headphones themselves? All the proccessing remains the same, so if I want to keep using dolby headphone, nothing changes? Since the volume control then happens on the amp, does the pc volume get set to 100% and just stays there?
  
 And I do plan to get the 6XX regardless. It sounds like for the price its kind of a no brainer for anyone who doesnt already own a 650 and wants to get into more higher fidelity audio without breaking the bank. By the way, Since it is an open back design, do you think slapping a modmic on it would cause any issues? Either just staying in place, or potentially affecting the sound at all?


----------



## Yethal

Got a chance to listen to these guys an hour ago. Electrostatic MrSpeakers serial #1. A thing of beauty


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mashuto, seeing as you came from the HD555 which is like a considerably inferior version of the 650 type sound, I think you'll be very, very happy with the 6XX. The one aspect the 555 does better is in soundstage, as the 6XX will sound a bit more intimate, but other than that, the 6XX blows the socks off the 555.

I honestly don't see a better headphone at $200. The 7XX may be a strong contender, stronger in some things, weaker in others, but both generally very, very competitive.

In case someone doesn't quite get it, I'm basing the 6XX off my experiences with the 650, not that I have the 6XX on hand. They should be the exact same, as it's already been confirmed online.


----------



## inseconds99

mad lust envy said:


> Mashuto, seeing as you came from the HD555 which is like a considerably inferior version of the 650 type sound, I think you'll be very, very happy with the 6XX. The one aspect the 555 does better is in soundstage, as the 6XX will sound a bit more intimate, but other than that, the 6XX blows the socks off the 555.
> 
> I honestly don't see a better headphone at $200. The 7XX may be a strong contender, stronger in some things, weaker in others, but both generally very, very competitive.
> 
> In case someone doesn't quite get it, I'm basing the 6XX off my experiences with the 650, not that I have the 6XX on hand. They should be the exact same, as it's already been confirmed online.


 
 From your memory would you say the hd650 failed at competitive gaming or just weren't up to par with cheaper options? Does your opinion and rating of the hd650/hd6xx change now that price has changed?


----------



## mashuto

mad lust envy said:


> Mashuto, seeing as you came from the HD555 which is like a considerably inferior version of the 650 type sound, I think you'll be very, very happy with the 6XX. The one aspect the 555 does better is in soundstage, as the 6XX will sound a bit more intimate, but other than that, the 6XX blows the socks off the 555.
> 
> I honestly don't see a better headphone at $200. The 7XX may be a strong contender, stronger in some things, weaker in others, but both generally very, very competitive.
> 
> In case someone doesn't quite get it, I'm basing the 6XX off my experiences with the 650, not that I have the 6XX on hand. They should be the exact same, as it's already been confirmed online.


 

 Yea, I did enjoy the 555's. They were my first pair of "nice" headphones I ever owned and only replaced them because the housings had started cracking and things were falling apart and I wanted a headset with a mic attached. I am pretty set on getting them. I dont know how massdrop operates, but I have already signed up and that even though they are clearly going to be sought after Im hoping that if I am online at 9am (eastern) on tuesday, I hopefully wont have any issues getting them.
  
 That just leaves figuring out what to do on the PC side of things. As I said, I am pretty happy with the dolby headphone implementation for gaming on my old xonar d1. So assuming I want to keep that, it looks like my options are to use my fiio e17k via line out as an amp only, pick up a dedicated amp for the pc (looking at the schitt magni) or upgrade to a new soundcard, of which the xonar stx ii looks to fit the bill, but will cost quite a bit.


----------



## Yethal

Focal Utopia. I wish I had more time with these but came out impressed anyway.


----------



## inseconds99

Birthday is Tuesday, going to treat myself to a new gaming headphones to replace my SHP9500 and pair with my x7 TODAY.
  

HD6xx
HD700 (Can get them for $300)
Fidelio X2
K7xx
  
  
 300 is my max spending.
  
 PS I've owned most of these headphones a while ago, but I am terrible at remembering what I liked and didn't like. I am leaning towards the hd700's as the price is so cheap and they're so comfortable, anyone want to talk me out of it?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Focal Utopia. I wish I had more time with these but came out impressed anyway.


 
  
 That's the Elear and what looks to be a Listen in the background, no Utopia to be found.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> That's the Elear and what looks to be a Listen in the background, no Utopia to be found.




Whoops...I attached a wrong picture. This one I believe is Utopia.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> Birthday is Tuesday, going to treat myself to a new gaming headphones to replace my SHP9500 and pair with my x7 TODAY.
> 
> 
> HD6xx
> ...




Ever tried the 400i?


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> Ever tried the 400i?




Hey change, how are ya man? I have not tried any hifiman. Have not heard much positive feedback gaming on them. How are they for all day comfort general usage while on my pc and most of all, gaming?


----------



## AxelCloris

yethal said:


> Whoops...I attached a wrong picture. This one I believe is Utopia.


 
  
 That is indeed the Utopia and it is a lovely headphone. One of my all-time favorites.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> Hey change, how are ya man? I have not tried any hifiman. Have not heard much positive feedback gaming on them. How are they for all day comfort general usage while on my pc and most of all, gaming?




I'm doing great, man, thanks for asking! How about yourself?

If you still have the TH-X00, it's a near perfect compliment. Sound quality is better than the X2 and K7XX. More detail, less grain, but not as big a soundstage as the AKG. Swapping grills opens it up some, especially the newer version without the metal plate covering the drivers. Comfort is there once you break in the focus pads, but they do get warm after long sessions at first. I sold my beloved 9500 I got from you because I started using the 400i more for gaming. Between that and the TH-X00, I had no need for anything else.

The 9500 was perfect for convenience, though. I do miss it. I think you should keep it as a throw around. Wish I still had it.


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> I'm doing great, man, thanks for asking! How about yourself?
> 
> If you still have the TH-X00, it's a near perfect compliment. Sound quality is better than the X2 and K7XX. More detail, less grain, but not as big a soundstage as the AKG. Swapping grills opens it up some, especially the newer version without the metal plate covering the drivers. Comfort is there once you break in the focus pads, but they do get warm after long sessions at first. I sold my beloved 9500 I got from you because I started using the 400i more for gaming. Between that and the TH-X00, I had no need for anything else.
> 
> The 9500 was perfect for convenience, though. I do miss it. I think you should keep it as a throw around. Wish I still had it.




I'm great man. Sorry to hear that you sold those shp9500's lol things are really good for the price. I def think I'm gonna keep it. I find the bass on my thx00 to become too intrusive while playing over watch and titanfall 2. Seems to drown out footsteps. Trying to find a headphone that has still has bass (unlike the ad700x that has none) with great soundstage which the shp9500 is lacking in. That's my goal, so a can that has great bass but non intrusive like the thx00 and have great soundstage for positional accuracy without sacrificing bass. All while having ALL DAY COMFORT, as I sometimes have these headphone on for multiple hours at a time.


----------



## Change is Good

inseconds99 said:


> I'm great man. Sorry to hear that you sold those shp9500's lol things are really good for the price. I def think I'm gonna keep it. I find the bass on my thx00 to become too intrusive while playing over watch and titanfall 2. Seems to drown out footsteps. Trying to find a headphone that has still has bass (unlike the ad700x that has none) with great soundstage which the shp9500 is lacking in. That's my goal, so a can that has great bass but non intrusive like the thx00 and have great soundstage for positional accuracy without sacrificing bass. All while having ALL DAY COMFORT, as I sometimes have these headphone on for multiple hours at a time.




Yeah, the 400i's bass surprises me sometimes but definitely takes a back seat to the mids and highs. I don't know, man, you're asking for a lot in an open headphone under $300. Probably better off going back to the K7XX, then. The HD6XX will presumably disappoint in the soundstage department because of its rich 'in your face' mids, so you may want to scratch that off your list.


----------



## Change is Good

Or heck, get the HD700. Don't know how I overlooked it on your list. Seems to fit what you're searching, especially for that price you can get it for.


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> Yeah, the 400i's bass surprises me sometimes but definitely takes a back seat to the mids and highs. I don't know, man, you're asking for a lot in an open headphone under $300. Probably better off going back to the K7XX, then. The HD6XX will presumably disappoint in the soundstage department because of its rich 'in your face' mids, so you may want to scratch that off your list.




If I recall the hd700 had nice bass and great soundstage. I returned mine because of the price I spent on it lol, but at 300. Might be what I'm after. Actually what I really want is an hd800s but I'm getting married in April I don't know if the fiancé will be pleased with a purchase that big.


----------



## inseconds99

change is good said:


> Or heck, get the HD700. Don't know how I overlooked it on your list. Seems to fit what you're searching, especially for that price you can get it for.


 literally read my mind lol, look at what I just posted the same time as you.


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> That is indeed the Utopia and it is a lovely headphone. One of my all-time favorites.


 

 Would've been even lovelier if Focal guys didn't put them in the same room with their speaker setup.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> PC games don't seem to have HDR capability quite yet




Shadow Warrior 2 has HDR. Is also the first non-VR game with Nvidia Multi-Res Shading.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mashuto said:


> Hmm, almost sounds like getting a new soundcard isn't worth it at all for me. Yes my current soundcard is broken, but it hasnt really affected how I use it and doesnt affect the sound at all. Its just one of things that sometimes is an inconvenience and a reason for me to look at upgrades.
> So, if I was to get a magni, what would the setup be like? Just need a normal headphone jack cable that splits to the red and white for input to the magni, and thats it? Besides a 1/4" adapter for my headphones themselves? All the proccessing remains the same, so if I want to keep using dolby headphone, nothing changes? Since the volume control then happens on the amp, does the pc volume get set to 100% and just stays there?
> And I do plan to get the 6XX regardless. It sounds like for the price its kind of a no brainer for anyone who doesnt already own a 650 and wants to get into more higher fidelity audio without breaking the bank. By the way, Since it is an open back design, do you think slapping a modmic on it would cause any issues? Either just staying in place, or potentially affecting the sound at all?


 
  
 Just get an external headphone amplifier (Magni or other) and use a 3.5mm (1/8") plug to dual RCA cable to connect the D1 to the Magni.
 And get the 1/4" threaded adapter to connect your headphones 3.5mm (1/8") plug to the Magni's 1/4" (6.35mm) jack.
 Set your sounrce (PC) volume to around 75%-100% and just use the magni volume knob to control volume.
 Not sure on how the modmic would cause issues that your talking about.


----------



## TeeReQs

purpleangel said:


> If you install the Xonar DGX and decide you prefer Dolby to CMSS-3D, you might consider buying a used ($100?) Asus Xonar D2X sound card and connect whatever external headphone amplifier (O2 or Magni or other) you might be using to it.
> The Xonar D2X is really just like the original STX, but without a built in headphone amplifier.
> I would rated the O2 (& Magni) headphone amplifier a little more desirable, then the one built into the Xonar STX/STX II
> 
> I'm seriously considering buying the Massdrop (Senn) HD6XX headphones myself.


 
 I did a quick eBay search and found one D2X, but now it's gone . Seems like a used one might be hard to find, but an STX/STX II can be easily had, just not quite as cheap. I'll definitely try the DGX out again before committing to something more expensive. Looks like there's a good handful of people on here hoping to get their hands on a pair of HD6XX haha.
  


evshrug said:


> In short, I've really grown to appreciate swappable OpAmps as a feature and it elevated the X7 to a midpoint between a good desktop amp and a high-end desktop amp; a solid value upgrade for the price. I've gotta post my review soon because it's driving me MAD and I feel like I'm overdue to be done with it, lol. Full disclosure, my almost 2 years old X7 developed an odd audio artifact which was becoming more and more noticeable before I got the Burson Audio v5i OpAmps, and I was hoping to get it sorted before posting my final review, but Creative sent two automated emails without actually responding yet. I think I'll just have to comment on the v5i's merits separately from the pre-existing problem, and hope that I can get the problem sorted when I'm not busy and tired.
> I do think that the DGX should have an inferior DAC to the X7, which would be noticeable even if you used your O2. I haven't heard the DGX though, and if the DGX supports digital output to another DAC while passing along the Dolby Headphone mix, then the sound quality difference between any of the Asus sound cards would be moot (other than price you paid). If you just want Dolby Headphone, then forget about any of the cards and just buy the U3 or whatever's cheapest, and use an optical output to a Modi, Bifrost, Mojo, or some other DAC.
> 
> The beauty of the X7, however, is that you don't need to connect a separate amp, or a separate DAC. Techradar stated exactly what I'm talking about in their recent review of the M2 DAP: "But daisy-chaining devices to your phone can be a right royal pain in the AAC." I only use one gaming console, but even a single Optical switcher would IMO be preferable to having separate whole systems for two consoles, my PC/Mac, and my smartphone. Sure, a Jotunheim amp + Bifrost Multibit DAC or better would beat the X7 for audio quality (and you even could optical-output to such a DAC), but the X7 is a solid desktop-class performer and will outperform any Mixamp/DSS/portable sub-$200 setup with surround DSP out there.
> ...


 
 I actually had forgot that the X7 had swappable amps until you mentioned something. Not sure if it's a feature I would use, but it would be nice to have the option. I guess that's a good point on just buying a U3 or something similar. I never really though about getting a separate DAC as I've always just though to use a soundcard as my primary. I'll see if the DGX sounds significantly worse than the X-Fi's DAC. Either way I'm going to use the Magni/O2 for my K7XX. I still go back to the idea of an X7 though because of the all in one factor. I'll probably end up ordering one this weekend just so I can have everything all at once to test back and forth. I'd really like to not have any more devices than I do now. I need to make room on my desk for a second monitor! Now that I think about it, I don't know if I've tried my K7XX with the Extigy or DSS2 to compare to the Hyper X Clouds with no amping. That's going to be my goal for the weekend.
  
 I was checking the Realiser out last night. Looks like a pretty cool product, albeit quite expensive. I'll stay tuned for your review 
  
  
  


evshrug said:


> Oh wow, ironically I just got an email from Creative 30 minutes ago. It just asks if I have the latest firmware, and if I have mic monitoring (and thus a feedback loop of the X7 mic hearing the... headphone, I guess). At least finally the process is starting!
> 
> (It's probably not obvious, but I spent the whole day driving from errand to errand, ate dinner and crashed/slept on the couch for a few hours, and I just woke up recently when my Fiancé came home)


 
 Good news! Hopefully you get it all sorted out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

octiceps said:


> Shadow Warrior 2 has HDR. Is also the first non-VR game with Nvidia Multi-Res Shading.




Ah cool. Does it easily just work on an HDR TV where the TV knows it's getting an HDR signal? I ask because HDR has been a thing for PC games for years, but it's not 'this' type of HDR.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> Ah cool. Does it easily just work on an HDR TV where the TV knows it's getting an HDR signal? I ask because HDR has been a thing for PC games for years, but it's not 'this' type of HDR.




Yes, it has a setting for HDR display.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's cool. It is about damn time.


----------



## apaar123

how does ether c compare to stax lambda and hd 800?


----------



## lenroot77

apaar123 said:


> how does ether c compare to stax lambda and hd 800?




Probably a question for the hd800 board or a Stax board.


----------



## apaar123

lenroot77 said:


> Probably a question for the hd800 board or a Stax board.


thanks


----------



## Yethal

Had a chance to listen to these. Most bizzare thing, they were playing Rage Against The Machine. There is a line of about 20 people right now whowant to listen to rapcore on 50k headphones.


----------



## Ljanmi

yethal said:


> Had a chance to listen to these. Most bizzare thing, they were playing Rage Against The Machine. There is a line of about 20 people right now whowant to listen to rapcore on 50k headphones.


 
 Where was that?


----------



## Yethal

ljanmi said:


> Where was that?



Audio/video show in Warsaw. Three days of audiophile bliss for 15 dollars.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Had a chance to listen to these. Most bizzare thing, they were playing Rage Against The Machine. There is a line of about 20 people right now whowant to listen to rapcore on 50k headphones.


 
 I hope nobody was banging there head and potentially risked dropping them lol.
  
 Also, who doesn't love some Rage Against The Machine and even more so using a 50k headphone?


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> I hope nobody was banging there head and potentially risked dropping them lol.
> 
> Also, who doesn't love some Rage Against The Machine and even more so using a 50k headphone?


 

 When it was my turn to listen (there was a literal line so every person was restricted to two minutes max) there was some smooth jazz playing. But somebody left first RATM album on the table so I quickly switched CDs around and started my session. I thought that the next guy in line would switch back to jazz but for some reason they kept the CD going. People in the line went through the entire album and then discussed the richness of the sound while Zach de la Rocha screamed KILLING IN THE NAME OF throughout the room (sound leakage on HE-1 is ridiculous). Swear to god, like being in a Twilight Zone episode.


----------



## CPTredsox

Hi guys.. Im a noob in dolby headphone related stuff and wanted to try it out. So I want to buy a mixamp and wanted to know if I could double amp it with an old Denon Stereo Receiver, does the dolby signal work through a stereo receiver? It's still analog


----------



## PurpleAngel

cptredsox said:


> Hi guys.. I'm a noob in Dolby Headphone related stuff and wanted to try it out. So I want to buy a mix-amp and wanted to know if I could double amp it with an old Denon Stereo Receiver, does the Dolby signal work through a stereo receiver? It's still analog


 
 Yes, it will work, just connect the Mix-amp's headphone output to the line-input (RCA?) jacks of the stereo.
 What headphones will you be plugging into the stereo?


----------



## CPTredsox

I am using the DT880s and X2s with vmoda boompro


----------



## PurpleAngel

cptredsox said:


> I am using the DT880s and X2s with vmoda boompro


 
  
 The DT880 should be OK plugged into the stereo receiver, but because of impedance issues, might be better to plug the Philips Fidelio X2 directly into the mix-amp.
  
 Can we assume the Mix-amp is plugged into a gaming console?
 And you have Dolby enabled on the gaming console?


----------



## apaar123

Fidelio x2 vs akg k712 pro for music and gaming?


----------



## Yethal

apaar123 said:


> Fidelio x2 vs akg k712 pro for music and gaming?


 

 Depends on the rest of the setup and whether You want to use a mic.


----------



## Evshrug

apaar123 said:


> how does ether c compare to stax lambda and hd 800?



Quick & dirty:
Ether C has unusually great soundstage for a closed headphone, also great sub bass extension, however bass isn't emphasized and overall I find the HD800 more musically exciting/interesting while also having a better soundstage. Both are very comfortable (the HD800 is IMO more so, but I could wear the Ether C for 4-5 hours no problem).

In the end, do you want a closed headphone? Because the Ether C is a great choice. Perhaps slightly more detailed than the open Ether. But I prefer (personally) the sound of the open Ether and the HD800.


----------



## apaar123

yethal said:


> Depends on the rest of the setup and whether You want to use a mic.


i will be having a usb mic


----------



## apaar123

evshrug said:


> Quick & dirty:
> Ether C has unusually great soundstage for a closed headphone, also great sub bass extension, however bass isn't emphasized and overall I find the HD800 more musically exciting/interesting while also having a better soundstage. Both are very comfortable (the HD800 is IMO more so, but I could wear the Ether C for 4-5 hours no problem).
> 
> In the end, do you want a closed headphone? Because the Ether C is a great choice. Perhaps slightly more detailed than the open Ether. But I prefer (personally) the sound of the open Ether and the HD800.


i will be buying only one costly headphone both for gaming and music. Which one should I from these 2?


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys have you seen this new tech from Sennheiser - looks very interesting 
  
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1200-pro
  
  
 /img/vimeo_logo.png


----------



## rudyae86

ljanmi said:


> Guys have you seen this new tech from Sennheiser - looks very interesting
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1200-pro
> 
> ...


 
 You are pretty late my friend, we have seen this about 2 months ago.
  
 And talking about this, I have been checking amazon if they have it in stock and they do have it on their site but not in stock...however....
  
 There are already 2 reviews on it and it seems they got the GSX 1000 and 1200 through the vine program. They both gave it 5 stars.
  
  
  
 I am honestly not liking this new way of reviewing items. But oh well, this is the new type of marketing many brands have started doing.
  
 I will still purchase one to check it out and see how it fares against DH and SBX.


----------



## Evshrug

apaar123 said:


> i will be buying only one costly headphone both for gaming and music. Which one should I from these 2?



I would totally get the HD800 personally, and did. I am satisfied with my choice, though right up until I bought the HD800 I had determined that (price being equal) I wanted the open Ether more than either of them, based on listening.

I feel like the HD800 does soundstage size, positional imaging, and comfort best. They IMO do a very good job creating a speaker-like experience (without extra bass). There are also smoking good deals on used ones. I decided those things were what I cared about most long-term, and I happen to own an amp (liquid carbon) that I heard and felt was a great pairing with the HD800 with none of the fatiguing treble I'd heard others complain about.

I personally feel like the Ether C is better for privacy, concentration, and "fulfilling what headphones do best." That last comment may be confusing, but if you think of all the reasons why you would choose to listen to headphones instead of speakers, then I'd say the Ether C does a better job responding to all those reasons.

In the end though, (almost) all the headphones at this price level are incredibly great, and if you can afford it, either one of these is going to be a very impressive and satisfying headphone! You should pick based on which appeals to you more, and then feel content because you won't be making a mistake


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> You are pretty late my friend, we have seen this about 2 months ago.
> 
> And talking about this, I have been checking amazon if they have it in stock and they do have it on their site but not in stock...however....
> 
> ...



Used to be, people looked to reviewers to describe and recommend top choices among games, movies, technology, and more, before customers spent their hard-earned cash on things.

Now people are too worried about conspiracy..



> I will still purchase one to check it out and see how it fares against DH and SBX.


 hopefully is way cool! It sure looks like it was made for us (and hopefully is a Mixamp Killer).


----------



## TeeReQs

The limited edition X7 on sale on Creatives site for $349..yet the regular X7 is still at $399. I was going to buy a regular X7 one from Sonic Electronix since they had it for $330, but on their page now it says product discontinued.. Wonder if a new version is on the horizon?
  
  
 Limited Edition on sale:
  
 http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7-limited-edition#/buy-menu
  
 Sonic Electronix:
  
 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_110499_Creative-Sound-Blaster-X7-Black.html


----------



## apaar123

evshrug said:


> I would totally get the HD800 personally, and did. I am satisfied with my choice, though right up until I bought the HD800 I had determined that (price being equal) I wanted the open Ether more than either of them, based on listening.
> 
> I feel like the HD800 does soundstage size, positional imaging, and comfort best. They IMO do a very good job creating a speaker-like experience (without extra bass). There are also smoking good deals on used ones. I decided those things were what I cared about most long-term, and I happen to own an amp (liquid carbon) that I heard and felt was a great pairing with the HD800 with none of the fatiguing treble I'd heard others complain about.
> 
> ...


thanks


----------



## apaar123

I wanna know that which combo out of these will be best for gaming and music. I will be using a mojo. I want a detailed,crisp clear sound with everything balanced,good bass,good mids,good soundstage,good imaging and good detail I will be using for guitar so I want guitars to sound very clear. I listen to almost all kind of genres and play almost all kind of games. I will be using in home only so portability is not an issue.
Akg k712 pro and hd598, Akg k712 pro and meze99/b&o h6, Hd598 and meze 99/b&o h6, Meze 99/ b&o h6 and Fidelio x2 Or any other combo which you think is best. Please help me guys


----------



## saturnotaku

Creative must be clearing out its stock because in addition to the X7 being on sale, you can pick up the BlasterX G5 for $85 on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-BlasterX-Headphone-Amplifier-SB1700/dp/B018JUPY3A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1478615490.
  
 If my laptop didn't have built-in support for the Creative surround-sound protocol, I'd totally pick this up.


----------



## AxelCloris

I had the X7 Limited Edition at home for about a week and I thought it was a nice little system. I ran into a few bugs but they weren't horrible. The most common one was that it would enable mic monitoring every time the computer woke from sleep. Thankfully I was able to disable that quickly in the software each time. In the end I brought it back to the office because it belongs to Head-Fi and not me but I wouldn't have minded keeping it around. That said I still love sending Dolby Headphone processed sound from my PC's audio card to an external DAC. I don't see myself moving away from that any time soon.


----------



## TeeReQs

axelcloris said:


> I had the X7 Limited Edition at home for about a week and I thought it was a nice little system. I ran into a few bugs but they weren't horrible. The most common one was that it would enable mic monitoring every time the computer woke from sleep. Thankfully I was able to disable that quickly in the software each time. In the end I brought it back to the office because it belongs to Head-Fi and not me but I wouldn't have minded keeping it around. That said I still love sending Dolby Headphone processed sound from my PC's audio card to an external DAC. I don't see myself moving away from that any time soon.


 
 I think if I didn't have my two consoles that would be the best solution for me. A Schiit stack with a either Xonar DGX or Xonar U3 to send Dolby Headphone out the optical into the Modi Uber. When you throw in an Xbox One and PS4, the wires and devices start to multiply, considering I would need an additional device (Mixamp, DSS, Extigy, etc.) for the console side of things. The X7 would get rid of a lot of that clutter.


----------



## mashuto

teereqs said:


> I think if I didn't have my two consoles that would be the best solution for me. A Schiit stack with a either Xonar DGX or Xonar U3 to send Dolby Headphone out the optical into the Modi Uber. When you throw in an Xbox One and PS4, the wires and devices start to multiply, considering I would need an additional device (Mixamp, DSS, Extigy, etc.) for the console side of things. The X7 would get rid of a lot of that clutter.




That's what I just did actually. I picked up a magni but was getting some interference and buzzing (though I think it may have actually been an issue with my hyperx cloud instead of the magni). But I said screw it and ordered a modi uber and will be doing both optical and USB. Optical for gaming so I can keep Dolby headphone processing and USB will be for listening to music so I won't have to change sound settings, I can instead just set foobar to use USB straight to the DAC and just swap inputs on the modi. That was in don't have to worry about a new soundcard and figuring out a new virtual surround setup considering I like Dolby headphone a lot. Get to keep my old xonar d1 this way and give it some new life with the schitt stack.

The hyperx clouds have been temporarily retired and my Sennheiser hd555 have been brought out of retirement (with help of some super glue) with the addition of a modmic while I wait for my Sennheiser hd6XX's to arrive (was lucky to get in apparently)


----------



## TeeReQs

mashuto said:


> That's what I just did actually. I picked up a magni but was getting some interference and buzzing (though I think it may have actually been an issue with my hyperx cloud instead of the magni). But I said screw it and ordered a modi uber and will be doing both optical and USB. Optical for gaming so I can keep Dolby headphone processing and USB will be for listening to music so I won't have to change sound settings, I can instead just set foobar to use USB straight to the DAC and just swap inputs on the modi. That was in don't have to worry about a new soundcard and figuring out a new virtual surround setup considering I like Dolby headphone a lot. Get to keep my old xonar d1 this way and give it some new life with the schitt stack.
> 
> The hyperx clouds have been temporarily retired and my Sennheiser hd555 have been brought out of retirement (with help of some super glue) with the addition of a modmic while I wait for my Sennheiser hd6XX's to arrive (was lucky to get in apparently)


 
 I think that's the best solution for PC if you prefer Dolby over SBX/THX/CMSS-3D
  
 Lucky you on the 6XX. I woke up at 6 with no luck. Probably going to buy a pair of 598 SE and maybe AD700x to try out instead. I had a pair of AD700's awhile back paired with a Mixamp and I still think those were the best in terms of positional accuracy for FPS games.


----------



## mashuto

teereqs said:


> I think that's the best solution for PC if you prefer Dolby over SBX/THX/CMSS-3D
> 
> Lucky you on the 6XX. I woke up at 6 with no luck. Probably going to buy a pair of 598 SE and maybe AD700x to try out instead. I had a pair of AD700's awhile back paired with a Mixamp and I still think those were the best in terms of positional accuracy for FPS games.


 

 I have been using Dolby Headphone for a number of years so I am quite used to it and I can pick up the positional cues quite easily. It works for me and I really get an actual sense of surround sound from stereo headphones. I originally didn't pick up the modi as well because I assumed the DAC from the xonar would be acceptable, but I also wasnt sure if I could still use the dolby headphone processing with an external DAC.
  
 With the HyperX Cloud's and the magni, I started hearing buzzing. When I opened battlefield, there would just be a constant buzzing in the background, and I could hear some of kind of light interference simply by moving my mouse over certain areas of the screen.
  
 I am not sure if this is just inteference the sound card DAC is picking up from the PC, or if it had something to do directly with my HyperX Clouds. But I figured having a higher quality external dac (the modi) at the very least wouldnt hurt anything and at best could improve sound quality. I did switch over to my sennheiser hd555's that have been sitting in storage for a year or two since the housings started to crack and fall apart. But plugging them in, I didn't hear the buzzing anymore. But the modi is still on the way, and I am pretty sure it will be a good purchase regardless.
  
 And yes, I do feel like I lucked out with the HD6XX's. That whole thing seemed like such a major screw up. So the fact that my order was in a few minutes after it opened with no other issues just seems like I really lucked out. I am looking forward to them because I think fondly of my 555's since they were my first "real" pair of headphones and they still sound quite good to my ear after playing with them a bit this morning.


----------



## TeeReQs

Same here. Before I really got into PC gaming I used the Astro Mixamp on Xbox 360 (mostly for COD), and always felt I had an edge when it came to positional cues. When I built my PC I went with a Xonar DGX, and was extremely happy with it. I always like trying new things though, so I replaced the DGX with an X-Fi Titanium HD/Magni/K7XX. Since then I've never really been completely satisfied with the CMSS-3D in comparison. My friend is sending me my old DGX this week, so I will be able to test the both back to back. When I still had the DGX I was using a pair of Razer Orcas/Steel Series Siberias with a custom mod mic. I'm curious to see how it sounds with the K7XX, but I'm thinking I might get some feedback without a proper DAC like you mentioned in your experience. We will see.
  
 With the release of Modern Warfare Remastered last weekend I decided to try out my K7XX for console gaming, and I switched back and forth between them an my HyperX Clouds. I also went back and forth between my DSS2 and Creative Extigy. Both were being double amped through my O2. For a closed back "gaming" headset the HyperX clouds do alright, but it's immediately apparent how much bigger the sound stage is with the K7XX. After switching back and forth between the two I decided to just use the K7XX. I felt like the DSS2 had better positional cues once I got the EQ and surround angles set correctly, but I was only getting chat out of one ear, and if I set chat to come out of speakers throguh the Xbox settings it was extremely loud, and there's no way to turn voice chat down without turning down game volume as well. This was annoying so I switched back to the Extigy. Overall the CMSS on the Extigy sounds better, but I don't think it performs better. I was constantly getting shot in the back, and not being able to tell direction of gunshots/footsteps. It was almost like the sound stage was too large. Gun shots are almost soft, and hard to tell the direction they're coming from. So, in short, I think the Extigy has better sound, but not better positional cues and accuracy in comparison to the DSS2. I ordered an Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 edition over the weekend, which should be here in the next day or so. I'll test that out along with the DGX on PC and make a conclusion. Still think I'll pick up an X7 to test so I can cover all my bases. 
  
  
 On the 6XX..I didn't even want them for gaming sine there are better options out there, but it would have been nice for listening to music. I guess it saves me $200..for now.


----------



## mashuto

I have never been super competitive, but I do get into it a lot when I play. And im not big on consoles and the few times I have had consoles, they have always been hooked up to my surround system. The headphone world/hobby is a new one for me, so I am still trying to figure things out. I picked up the HD555 a long time ago and it was the only one I owned for quite some time until I switched to the hyperx cloud mainly because the HD555's started falling apart and because I wanted something with an integrated headset.
  
 Lately I have been more interested in IEM's and worked my way up to the low end of mid tier with the Mee Pinnacle P1's and a Fiio e17k dac/amp. So when I saw the massdrop for the HD6XX's it looked like the perfect opportunity to get a nice pair of over ears for my desktop setup. Which led me to also getting the schitt stack. The 6XX's might not be the best for super competitive gaming, but as long as they are as good or better than the clouds (which I imagine they absolutely would be) then its not an issue for me, and I am more interested in having a nice sort of do it all pair. Good enough for gaming, but also good for music. So I am glad I got in on the drop, though.
  
 In the meantime, I am interested to see how I feel about the HD555's with the modmic vs the clouds. They were my goto pair for a long time, but I havent picked them up since I got the clouds. Will be interesting to see how I feel about gaming with them, and especially how they sound now with the amp (and tomorrow with the new DAC).
  
 Is it natural though to be hearing feedback or buzzing from the magni on one pair of headphones but not on another? It also seemed to be worse when I had the magni resting on top of my computer vs now, its elevated up a bit on my desk.


----------



## TeeReQs

I'm curious to see what you think about that combo once it's all setup. I'll be trying my DGX sans modi. Maybe the different cables/connectors has something to do with it, or differences in impedance? I'm no expert so I'll let someone more knowledgeable answer that one.
  
 Sounds like there's still hope for people who tried to get in the drop early for the 6XX. Apparently random people were being denied at the checkout process. Here's to hoping I still have a chance!


----------



## mashuto

Truthfully, I am not sure how much of a difference I personally will be able to tell between the onboard dac of the xonar d1 vs the modi on either my 555's or the clouds. I am pretty new to all this so unless I do some a/b testing, I really am not sure how much of a difference I will be able to tell.
  
 The magni on the other hand has definitely been nice. Though I haven't listened to the 555's in like two years, so I can't really compare amped vs unamped. The clouds sounded nicer, but the magni also introduced that buzzing and interference (or much more likely, amplified it from the soundcard and made it audible... though still weird that I don't hear it on the senns and dont remember hearing it day 1 with the clouds either... I really am racking my brain as to why). The magni's sound really great though paired with my favorite IEM's, the Mee Pinnacle P1's. They really round the sound out nicely and I am liking the bass response (my on slight negative on them) much better now with the magni than out of my phone or even the fiio e17k. Though I think with these, the modi might just clean the sound up that little extra bit.
  
 The modi arrives tomorrow, so I will be able to give it a go tomorrow evening. Hopefully I got all the cables I need and didnt overlook anything.
  
 And yes, for the 6XX I think read that their plan was to cancel out all the duplicates, then go back to those who they have a record of trying to join the drop first but were unable to and start adding them in. So I think if you got to the point where you were able to click join, especially if it was early on, you might in luck. Of course, I don't know if thats official or not.


----------



## TeeReQs

On a side note, I just ordered some AD700x's. Hopefully paired with the Astro Mixamp they do as good of a job at sound whoring as I remember with the older AD700's. I think I'll skip the HD598 SE's for now, and put the money saved towards an X7. The AD700x should do a better job anyways for competitive FPS. I have the 7XX for general everyday usage anyways. I should really wait to go down this sound whoring vortex closer to Black Friday or Cyber Monday..oh well.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 That's what it sounded like from what I was reading on the discussion board earlier. Alex from MD stated that he should have a resolution for it all by the end of the day. Probably about the same time we find out who the next president is going to be.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone have any experience with the Astro M80 mix amp? It's the controller mounted unit. Astro has the.m on sale For 150 with a set of A40's today.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Anyone tried the HD 599 for games yet?


----------



## rudyae86

aussiejuggalo said:


> Anyone tried the HD 599 for games yet?


 
 I actually want to try them and compare them to my HD598. Although, I have not read much about the HD599, I have a feeling they will be a slight upgrade from the HD598.
  
 I might get one later on just to compare.....but if someone purchases an HD599, please do tell us about it.


----------



## TeeReQs

Might be a good reason to hold off on buying a pair of 598's. I'm interested as well. Whose going to be the guinea pig?!


----------



## apaar123

Has anyone used akg k712 with chord mojo?


----------



## Yethal

aussiejuggalo said:


> Anyone tried the HD 599 for games yet?



Tried them with music last weekend
 Darker sounding than hd598 with much better bass extension. Soundstage seems the same though.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

yethal said:


> Tried them with music last weekend
> Darker sounding than hd598 with much better bass extension. Soundstage seems the same though.




Interesting, I may grab a pair before Christmas to go with the JDS Labs Element I'm ordering .


----------



## Yethal

Heard about the elections. Anybody here want to move to Poland?


----------



## apaar123

Will creative g5 be good to pair with akg k712 pro purely for pc gaming?


----------



## Fegefeuer

forget the G5 if you want SBX or VST.


----------



## apaar123

fegefeuer said:


> forget the G5 if you want SBX or VST.


what is sbx and vst?


----------



## OneEyedCat

Hey folks,
  
 Took me days to choose headphones but ultimately came to these: http://www.modhouseaudio.com/argon/argon. I would be happy to make a noob review of them in this thread.
  
 At first I will plug them in an amp then directly into my mobo. It has Audio boost 3 with Nahimic sound, USB Audio power 3 and access to DPC latency tuner (a software that MSI says it can reduce audio latency, except I have no clue how).
  
 So I have a few questions that may be have been posted a thousand times here but really, as a technophobe, I'm exhausted with reading about audio stuff....
 - strictly for gaming, would there be significative improvement from a DAC ? if yes, what is it?
 - if one, what would be the easy solution to improve positionning in FPS (you've understood what I want to say) without at all messing the sound of the headphones?
  
 TYVM for the kind person who can answer and for the contributors here.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Astro M80 mix amp? It's the controller mounted unit. Astro has the.m on sale For 150 with a set of A40's today.


 

 Funny enough we have one here at the office and yet none of us own an Xbox One, we own Playstations. Someday I'll try it, but until then it's going to sit in the corner all pretty in it's little package.


----------



## Ljanmi

I got my AKG K7XX and I am very pleased with the sound, I need amp now. What do you think about Sound BlasterX G5?
  
 http://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blasterx-g5
  
 Experience so far... :
  
*PC integrated sound - SAD *
*Nexus 5X                  - SO&SO*
*iPhone 6s                  - OK*
*iPad Air                     - GOOD*


----------



## shuto77

Has anyone here used the Hifiman HE-400s (the 400s - not the original 400) for gaming? I know planars aren't known for their sound stage, but I've heard these are pretty good in that regard. I also liked the 400i, and wanted to give these a shot.
  
 Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

oneeyedcat said:


> Took me days to choose headphones but ultimately came to these: http://www.modhouseaudio.com/argon/argon. I would be happy to make a noob review of them in this thread.
> At first I will plug them in an amp then directly into my mobo. It has Audio boost 3 with Nahimic sound, USB Audio power 3 and access to DPC latency tuner (a software that MSI says it can reduce audio latency, except I have no clue how).
> So I have a few questions that may be have been posted a thousand times here but really, as a technophobe, I'm exhausted with reading about audio stuff....
> - strictly for gaming, would there be significative improvement from a DAC ? if yes, what is it?
> ...


 
  
 Might help to know the make and model of your Win PC's motherboard?
  
 I like to push the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z, it's a good lower costing option, for trying to improve over on-board audio.
 If you do add an internal sound card to your PC, I usually recommend to disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS first.


----------



## OneEyedCat

purpleangel said:


> Might help to know the make and model of your Win PC's motherboard?
> 
> I like to push the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z, it's a good lower costing option, for trying to improve over on-board audio.
> If you do add an internal sound card to your PC, I usually recommend to disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS first.


 
  
 I have a MSI Z170I gaming pro AC, it's an ITX mobo so there's no slot for an internal sound card but I see this brand doing external solutions. Are they better than a classic DAC for gaming?


----------



## TeeReQs

A standard desktop DAC won't give you virtual surround if that's what you're after, but you could buy a Xonar U3 and feed that into a modi uber or something similar and retain Dolby Headphone from the U3.


----------



## TeeReQs

Also, I believe the Sound Blaster G5 will give you virtual surround on PC, but will be stereo on console. I don't have any experience with it, but that could be another option. Also the Recon3D is another option. There's a few options when it comes to external virtual surround, along with a large variance in price. All depends on what virtual surround software you prefer and how much money you're willing to spend.


----------



## PurpleAngel

oneeyedcat said:


> I have a MSI Z170I gaming pro AC, it's an ITX mobo so there's no slot for an internal sound card but I see this brand doing external solutions. Are they better than a classic DAC for gaming?


 
 An external optical DAC (or DAC/amp) connected to your motherboard's on-board audio (optical port), will not improve FPS gaming (headphone surround sound).
 improve audio quality...sure, but not gaming.
  
 A USB DAC (or DAC/amp) will bypass sound card features.
  
 A USB sound card, will come with it's own headphone surround sound function.


----------



## TeeReQs

I just ordered an X7  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 My 2013 Mixamp showed up today as well. All I need now is the AD700x, and I'll have a nice back to back comparison of the two.


----------



## OneEyedCat

teereqs said:


> A standard desktop DAC won't give you virtual surround if that's what you're after, but you could buy a Xonar U3 and feed that into a modi uber or something similar and retain Dolby Headphone from the U3.


 
  
  


purpleangel said:


> An external optical DAC (or DAC/amp) connected to your motherboard's on-board audio (optical port), will not improve FPS gaming (headphone surround sound).
> improve audio quality...sure, but not gaming.
> 
> A USB DAC (or DAC/amp) will bypass sound card features.
> ...


 
  
 All right it is much clearer now, thank you guys.
  
 If you have time to read what follows, can you please tell me what would you do if you were me?
  
 I am a game lover and a movie lover but not a music lover. I have spent in those headphones what represents for me a bunch of money. But I needed them for gaming. My sound is very ****ty because it comes from my pc screen but I want to improve it by true speakers. I chose these cans first for comfort and longevity, then because they should offer a very fun sound while gaming. However they might be poor at positionning audio.
  
 At the moment my budget is 100$-150$. With that money I was thinking I had to buy a Shiit Modi as an amplifier because these headphones are a Fostex variant and all say that they need very much power. I was thinking about buying a 100$ desktop DAC later because all say that it's needed to fully enjoy these headphones. Later means I don't know if I'll ever buy one but I'd like to smile while listening games, movies and songs when I receive these headphones.
  
 However I hear that these headphones can make sound from any smartphone and that the need for an amp is overrated. Also you just made me realize that if I buy a desktop DAC, I'll need to buy another solution for surround or Dolby. I'm starting to freek out about the money I have to spend and even about the money I've spent already. And now I feel that I would rather buy an all in one solution because at the end, I would be happy with anything that changes from playing BF1 with the sound of my screen.
  
 So what would you do with my budget? Am I crazy if I buy the Modi and plug it to my motherboard without anything else? Can I improve positioning audio without buying anything?


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> Has anyone here used the Hifiman HE-400s (the 400s - not the original 400) for gaming? I know planars aren't known for their sound stage, but I've heard these are pretty good in that regard. I also liked the 400i, and wanted to give these a shot.
> 
> Thanks!




Soundstage is very similar to 400i's if not the same. I'd assume it may open up a touch more if you were to do the "grill mod". In my opinion these do a fair to good job with soundstage and positioning. 

For what it's worth I preferred the 400S to the 400i... just a more smooth and mellow sound to them imo.


----------



## PurpleAngel

oneeyedcat said:


> All right it is much clearer now, thank you guys.
> If you have time to read what follows, can you please tell me what would you do if you were me?
> I am a game lover and a movie lover but not a music lover. I have spent in those headphones what represents for me a bunch of money. But I needed them for gaming. My sound is very ****ty because it comes from my pc screen but I want to improve it by true speakers. I chose these cans first for comfort and longevity, then because they should offer a very fun sound while gaming. However they might be poor at positioning audio.
> At the moment my budget is 100$-150$. With that money I was thinking I had to buy a Shiit Modi as an amplifier because these headphones are a Fostex variant and all say that they need very much power. I was thinking about buying a 100$ desktop DAC later because all say that it's needed to fully enjoy these headphones. Later means I don't know if I'll ever buy one but I'd like to smile while listening games, movies and songs when I receive these headphones.
> ...


 
 The Schiit Modi is only a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), it's not designed to drive headphones, it's expected to be used with a separate headphone amplifier
  
 Right now Amazon has the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G5 external sound card for only $84.
 https://www.amazon.com/Creative-BlasterX-Headphone-Amplifier-SB1700/dp/B018JUPY3A
 Bestbuy has it on clearance for $75.
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/creative-sound-blasterx-g5-black/5142203.p?skuId=5142203
 Guess that is about the best deal your going to get (for your budget), for what your uses are (FPS gaming?).


----------



## TeeReQs

oneeyedcat said:


> All right it is much clearer now, thank you guys.
> 
> If you have time to read what follows, can you please tell me what would you do if you were me?
> 
> ...


 
 Just so you're not confused, the Schiit Modi is a DAC (Digital to Analog converter), and the Magni is an amp which you would need to drive a pair of demanding headphones. Technically you already have a DAC with your onboard sound. Did you already buy those Argons? I think you could get a lot of value in $300-350 if you chose a different pair of cans.. Are positional cues more important to you, or is being more immersed into the gameplay a bigger factor? What kind of games do you plan on playing? Only PC, correct. Nameless has a pretty good thread on PC gaming audio. Check it out if you haven't already. 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
  
 This thread explains how a sound card is a dac if we made it confusing.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/575103/soundcard-vs-dac
  
  
 Edit: PurpleAngel beat me to it.


----------



## Ljanmi

teereqs said:


> Just so you're not confused, the Schiit Modi is a DAC (Digital to Analog converter), and the Magni is an amp which you would need to drive a pair of demanding headphones. Technically you already have a DAC with your onboard sound. Did you already buy those Argons? I think you could get a lot of value in $300-350 if you chose a different pair of cans.. Are positional cues more important to you, or is being more immersed into the gameplay a bigger factor? What kind of games do you plan on playing? Only PC, correct. Nameless has a pretty good thread on PC gaming audio. Check it out if you haven't already.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
> 
> ...


 

 ​Best Buy is out of stock.
  
 Anyway about GSX1000 - https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18749909


----------



## TeeReQs

Thanks for the heads up on this thread. I was actually going through it the other day, but forgot to check back to see if there were any updates.


----------



## apaar123

purpleangel said:


> The Schiit Modi is only a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), it's not designed to drive headphones, it's expected to be used with a separate headphone amplifier
> 
> Right now Amazon has the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G5 external sound card for only $84.
> https://www.amazon.com/Creative-BlasterX-Headphone-Amplifier-SB1700/dp/B018JUPY3A
> ...


and how are creative omni and xfi HD?


----------



## PurpleAngel

apaar123 said:


> And how are Creative Omni and X-fi HD?


 
  
 Fairly sure the G5 offers better audio quality.
 But the Omni and X-Fi HD would still be decent,


----------



## apaar123

purpleangel said:


> Fairly sure the G5 offers better audio quality.
> But the Omni and X-Fi HD would still be decent,


Oh thanks btw will it power my akg k712?


----------



## OneEyedCat

purpleangel said:


> The Schiit Modi is only a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter), it's not designed to drive headphones, it's expected to be used with a separate headphone amplifier
> 
> Right now Amazon has the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G5 external sound card for only $84.
> https://www.amazon.com/Creative-BlasterX-Headphone-Amplifier-SB1700/dp/B018JUPY3A
> ...


 
  
 Very sorry about the confusion, I meant the Magni and had in mind the Modi as a future improvement.
  
 Knowing Fostex T50RP (MK2) needs very high power, would you buy one of these option to serve as an amp, and skip the Magni?
  
 I play many kind of games but mostly simulations and FPS. Although I've quit long sessions and very competitive gameplay, now I'd very much rather enjoy the show than tweeking all to ear footsteps.
  
  
  


teereqs said:


> Just so you're not confused, the Schiit Modi is a DAC (Digital to Analog converter), and the Magni is an amp which you would need to drive a pair of demanding headphones. Technically you already have a DAC with your onboard sound. Did you already buy those Argons? I think you could get a lot of value in $300-350 if you chose a different pair of cans.. Are positional cues more important to you, or is being more immersed into the gameplay a bigger factor? What kind of games do you plan on playing? Only PC, correct. Nameless has a pretty good thread on PC gaming audio. Check it out if you haven't already.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/593050/the-nameless-guide-to-pc-gaming-audio-with-binaural-headphone-surround-sound
> 
> ...


 
  
 All say onboard audio is ****ty and that a separate DAC is needed to enjoy good cans. But considering the price I paid my motherboard, sound should be listenable! So I have doubts about my real need of a separate DAC, especially considering I do not have sharp ears.
  
  
 I already bought the Argon. At first I wanted the Fidelio but needed closed cans. At the end I've been convinced to buy Argon after this review on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdk9kkeFq0
  
 I've discussed this choice in the Fidelio's thread. For summarize I bought them knowing I should spend 150$ in a Magni uber but I thought It would not be loss because it would be usefull for speakers. Soundwise there might be much better values, the review supra might even be disguised promotion. But these should at least deliver some kind of sound near my needs and with the mods, Fostex appeared to be the good choice for both very good comfort and durability. Furthemore, the guy who makes them is very friendly, he's starting his business and could be very talented. They are planar, and I like the idea of listening to some kind of high-end sound technology manually tuned. If the result might end poor, at least it will have some soul


----------



## TeeReQs

I'd say if you don't need the pre amps from the magni 2 uber, just buy a magni 2 for $100 or find a used one for cheaper. Then you'll have a quality amp to drive most sets of head phones, and if you decide you need surround you can always double amp one of the above mentioned devices later down the road. Or try out Razer's free surround software. From videos on YT it doesn't sound the greatest but probably works well enough for positional cues. Stereo still sounds pretty good with a nice pair of cans. Also, if you end up getting feedback from your onboard soundboards DAC, then would be the time to upgrade to an external option, such as the Modi uber. I'm still new, so take my advice with a grain of salt. There's a lot more well versed people on here that have better knowledge than me on the subject.


----------



## OneEyedCat

That seems a really good advice, thank you very much.


----------



## apaar123

Which is the best for gaming between Dolby headphones, sbx pro and Razer surround?


----------



## TeeReQs

It's all preference. Some people prefer Dolby Headphone, others prefer SBX or CMSS-3D. If you search either of those tags within this thread there's a good amount of info if you're willing to sort through it all.


----------



## apaar123

teereqs said:


> It's all preference. Some people prefer Dolby Headphone, others prefer SBX or CMSS-3D. If you search either of those tags within this thread there's a good amount of info if you're willing to sort through it all.


Thanks


----------



## apaar123

To use this software do you need a specific sound card?


----------



## PurpleAngel

apaar123 said:


> Oh thanks btw will it power my akg k712?


 
  
 It the best you could do, with in your budget.
 Get it will drive the AKG K712 Pro decently.


----------



## apaar123

Has anyone tried asus xonar u3?


----------



## mashuto

@TeeReQs I got the modi uber last night and got it all set up. Been having a bit of issues with the USB connection (usb device failed after reboot.. though I am pretty sure thats more of a windows configuration issue than anything directly related to the modi), but I also have it hooked up via optical to my soundcard to keep the dolby headphone processing (and other processing if I want it).
  
 As I suspected though, at least with the HD555's I really dont hear much of a difference between the DAC from the xonar and the modi. On my Pinnacle P1's though the sound has cleaned up a bit though not by much, just that little extra bit, you know? The Pinnacle P1's sound fantastic to my ear with the stack, it rounds out the bass just that extra little bit that I was missing from them originally. Almost too bad they are IEM's because I just don't think I could imagine myself trying to game with them. They have a decent soundstage for IEM's but nothing close to what would be remotely good for gaming. Just too bad, I really love the sound signature and how detailed they are.
  
 Either way, I am happy with the stack and the setup. I think it will give me a good middle ground between music and gaming. I think though if I was starting completely fresh at this point, I might look for a software solution for virtual surround or find the cheapest soundcard that does dolby headphone, because 80 or 90 dollars for a soundcard that is now basically ONLY doing dolby headphone seems like too much extra cost just for the surround processing.


----------



## TeeReQs

@mashuto Good to hear. Probably the cheapest option would be a Xonar U3 for $25-30 and send the dolby headphone from there to the modi, but then again you can find Xonar DGX for about the same price on ebay. I got my Mixamp pro 2013 hooked up to my Xbox One. Sound quality definitely isn't as good as the Creative Extigy, but the setup is a lot cleaner with only one wire running to my controller. To me the positional accuracy with DH is better, although not by as much as I would have hoped. Still having sifficulty pin pointing some foot steps and gun shot sounds, but that might just be the game. The ability to adjust chat and game audio is a big plus as well. I'll be receiving my X7 and AD700x within the next week, so that will be the next setup to test. 
  
 Oh, and I got into the HD6XX drop


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys I thought AKG K7XX are 600ohm headphones? I see on the box and in the review -
  

Rated impedance: 62 ohm​
 http://www.headfonia.com/review-massdrop-akg-k7xx-limited-red-edition-the-dark-side/​
 ​
So, I don't really need a powerfull amp for these?​
 ​


----------



## PurpleAngel

ljanmi said:


> Guys I thought AKG K7XX are 600ohm headphones? I see on the box and in the review -
> 
> 
> Rated impedance: 62 ohm​
> ...


 
 The 62-Ohm AKG K7XX headphones are slightly more power demanding then 250-Ohm Beyer headphones.
 So the K7XX really need to be used with at least a decent powerful headphone amplifier.
  
 Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier, $70-$100.


----------



## Ljanmi

Ok, I borrowed Asus STX from my friend for test. That sound card drives headphones up to 600ohm so AKG K7XX is rated @62ohm. Should I use high gain or low gain(I suppose low gain). Is it possible do damage the headphones if someone use high gain on those headphones for example?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ljanmi said:


> Ok, I borrowed Asus STX from my friend for test. That sound card drives headphones up to 600ohm so AKG K7XX is rated @62ohm. Should I use high gain or low gain (I suppose low gain). Is it possible do damage the headphones if someone use high gain on those headphones for example?


 
  
 It's ok to set the STX card's headphone amplifier to high gain, with the K7XX plugged in.


----------



## TeeReQs

I run my K7XX off of an O2, and use high gain for whatever that's worth.


----------



## Grotaron

Hello, I'm looking for an amp/dac for my HD700, after some research I'm between this two:
  
 https://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1000
  
 http://es.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x7
  
 any recomendations?


----------



## Ljanmi

I am coming from Beyerdynamic MMX300/Titanium HD/Asus DG. *AKG K7XX/Asus STX = FANTASTIC*, I don't know if it can get any better then this, it maybe can 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am using *high gain, smart volume between 40 and 55*. Never heard anything better. Thinking about ordering Creative Sound BlasterX G5 and compare it to Asus STX. Who would come out as a clear winner?
  
 PS
 Don't care about virtualization at this point 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​​ only everyday listening(music, movies, games...)   
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




​
  
 Extra comment:
  
 Just to compare *AKG K7XX/Asus STX VS AKG K7XX/iPad Air = literally Night&Day difference!!!*


----------



## TeeReQs

I think in terms of sound quality the STX should be better. That's just going by what I've read though. I don't don't have experience with both.


----------



## PurpleAngel

grotaron said:


> Hello, I'm looking for an amp/dac for my HD700, after some research I'm between this two:
> 
> https://en-us.sennheiser.com/audio-amplifier-gsx-1000
> 
> ...


 
  
 Asus Xonar DX sound card
 Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.
  
 I'm guessing the GSX-1000 surround sound might be a somewhat faked headphone surround sound.
 Guessing the Creative X7 is a little overkill for your use.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ljanmi said:


> I am coming from Beyerdynamic MMX300/Titanium HD/Asus DG. *AKG K7XX/Asus STX = FANTASTIC*, I don't know if it can get any better then this, it maybe can
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX card?
 Have you tried the unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
  
 For improving music audio, might try getting an external headphone amplifier and connect it to the STX's line-output (RCA)
 Darkvoice 336SE, $213-$250.
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
  
 Low cost upgrade for the STX.
 LME49860 op-amps ($5 each?), you would need 3


----------



## rudyae86

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JP436TS/
  
 So.....cloased back HD 598 C?
  
 What on earth did Sennheiser do?
  
 This is quite interesting I must say!


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JP436TS/
> 
> So.....cloased back HD 598 C?
> 
> ...


 

 I wonder how much the soundstage is affected by that. Stock 598 had a wonderful soundstage.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=headfiorg-20&location=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB01JP436TS%2F
  
 Guys check this out. Cheaper than both the BoomPro and the Custom Headset Gear and supposedly offers the same compatibility.


----------



## Ljanmi

purpleangel said:


> Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the STX card?
> Have you tried the unified Xonar Drivers?
> http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> 
> ...


 

 ​Of course I disabled onboard audio, I have no problem with the drivers or DPC latency - everything is working just fine on WIn 10 64. How will unified drivers "improve" sound quality?


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I wonder how much the soundstage is affected by that. Stock 598 had a wonderful soundstage.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=headfiorg-20&location=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB01JP436TS%2F
> 
> Guys check this out. Cheaper than both the BoomPro and the Custom Headset Gear and supposedly offers the same compatibility.


 

 Link takes me to the HD598 C lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

ljanmi said:


> ​Of course I disabled on-board audio, I have no problem with the drivers or DPC latency - everything is working just fine on WIn 10 64. How will unified drivers "improve" sound quality?


 
  
 Some people have claimed they have heard a slight improvement in audio quality, using the Unified Xonar Drivers.
 Also I figured these is a small chance the original Asus driver installation might have had issues.
  
 Next step for trying to improve audio quality might be getting a tube headphone amplifier.
 Darkvoice 336SE, $213-$250 at Massdrop.


----------



## Ljanmi

purpleangel said:


> Some people have claimed they have heard a slight improvement in audio quality, using the Unified Xonar Drivers.
> Also I figured these is a small chance the original Asus driver installation might have had issues.
> 
> Next step for trying to improve audio quality might be getting a tube headphone amplifier.
> Darkvoice 336SE, $213-$250 at Massdrop.


 

 ​Unfortunately I don't "believe" in those tube amps 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 For me only mainstream, affordable commercial stuff where we all can agree if something sounds overall better or worse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Those pricy tubes are for "believers and cult followers" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  
  
*PurpleAngel *full respect for you and thanks for advice, I know you ment everything best.


----------



## inseconds99

yethal said:


> I wonder how much the soundstage is affected by that. Stock 598 had a wonderful soundstage.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=headfiorg-20&location=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fdp%2FB01JP436TS%2F
> 
> Guys check this out. Cheaper than both the BoomPro and the Custom Headset Gear and supposedly offers the same compatibility.


 
 That link takes me to the 598?


----------



## TeeReQs

My X7 and AD700X's showed up today. This weekend shall be full of _testing. _


----------



## NewVegasBaby

Superlux HD 681 or 668B should be added . SUBERB gaming cans.
 HUGE soundstage and good detail , no idea why they arent in the guide.


----------



## TeeReQs

newvegasbaby said:


> Superlux HD 681 or 668B should be added . SUBERB gaming cans.
> HUGE soundstage and good detail , no idea why they arent in the guide.


 
 There's a lot of talk about those on here about being a really good pair of entry level cans, but no formal review. For $40 I'd be curious to try them out myself, as well as the Philips SHP9500. I think MLE stated earlier in this thread that he doesn't have as much time and/or funding to do as many reviews as he used to.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

teereqs said:


> There's a lot of talk about those on here about being a really good pair of entry level cans, but no formal review. For $40 I'd be curious to try them out myself, as well as the Philips SHP9500. I think MLE stated earlier in this thread that he doesn't have as much time and/or funding to do as many reviews as he used to.


 
  
 My 681 actually costed 20 euros which is less than 20 dollars . 
 For whatever my opinion is worth they are superb gaming cans because they have three essential things
 -Controled bass
 -Huge soundstage
 -Clarity 
  
 So if anyone else is reading and needs dirt cheap gaming cans , even tho they are open these are suberb.


----------



## TeeReQs

I was going off the price of 668B's on Amazon for $37.99, but the 681s are $28.99. Still cheap! Most good gaming cans are open, so that shouldn't necessarily be a con, unless you're looking for a more _fun_ pair of headphones.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

teereqs said:


> I was going off the price of 668B's on Amazon for $37.99, but the 681s are $28.99. Still cheap! Most good gaming cans are open, so that shouldn't necessarily be a con, unless you're looking for a more _fun_ pair of headphones.


 
  
 I got mine from thomman.de for 20 euros . Yeah indeed open headphones have good soundstage and become a must for gaming.
 These are also surprisingly bassy for open headphones , they are not basshead level or anything but the bass is satisfactory without bleeding into the mids.


----------



## TeeReQs

So many pairs of headphones to try!


----------



## headphonesonly

newvegasbaby said:


> Superlux HD 681 or 668B should be added . SUBERB gaming cans.
> HUGE soundstage and good detail , no idea why they arent in the guide.


I changed the pads to the Hifiman velours just like what Zeos recommended and they're amazing.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Link takes me to the HD598 C lol


 
  


inseconds99 said:


> That link takes me to the 598?


 

 I derp'd, here's the device
  
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/dreamGEAR-BoomChat-Detachable-Cable-Boom-Mic-Xbox-One-Playstation-4-Ninten-/191892516823
  
 EDIT: lol I found another one:
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/KetDirect-adapter-Microphone-Universal-headphone/dp/B01HB9H4LK


----------



## mbyrnes

teereqs said:


> My X7 and AD700X's showed up today. This weekend shall be full of _testing. _




I also just received the X7, but have had no time to try them out. The very limited time I did, I was actually blown away with music playback. I cannot wait to try these out with gaming. I can also compare it to my 2011 Astro Mix Amp. Think I'm going to wire the Astros into the X7 to clean up their sound. It'll be awesome to switch between them so very easily. 

Looking forward to your impressions of the X7. Hopefully it is a nice upgrade for you.


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> I also just received the X7, but have had no time to try them out. The very limited time I did, I was actually blown away with music playback. I cannot wait to try these out with gaming. I can also compare it to my 2011 Astro Mix Amp. Think I'm going to wire the Astros into the X7 to clean up their sound. It'll be awesome to switch between them so very easily.
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions of the X7. Hopefully it is a nice upgrade for you.


 
 I guess we'll be able to compare notes once we try it out. Did you get a limited edition? I actually haven't had anytime to set mine up yet, but I did try out the AD700x with my mixamp. So far, they are just what I remember about the original AD700. Excellent positional cues, but completely lacking in bass. The cord kind of sucks too, but that's minor. They're good at what  I bought them for (gaming). My K7XX and HD6XX will be reserved for music duties. I'm also eyeing some X2's, SHP9500 and HD598SE, and to add to the arsenal. I'm going to play some COD later and switch back and forth between these and the K7XX and see how much a difference I can tell between them.


----------



## kaireipy

If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!  Thank you 

PS. FPS Gaming, Soundstage has to be good so player positioning is good! 

thank you once again


----------



## Yethal

kaireipy said:


> If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Is there a "none of the above" option somewhere? Beyers will be all right but not on par with either K701, HD598 or AD700.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kaireipy said:


> If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The DT990 would be considered the best option, for FPS gaming.


----------



## nicobombai

kaireipy said:


> If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 HD650 > HD600/DT990 > DT770 imo.
 HD650 to be the best, in that order.
 I got the Dt770, play csgo, bf1 & bf4, very immersive if you're playing casually like me, I can pin-point the sounds easily, but not as easily as those others.


----------



## kaireipy

nicobombai said:


> HD650 > HD600/DT990 > DT770 imo.
> HD650 to be the best, in that order.
> I got the Dt770, play csgo, bf1 & bf4, very immersive if you're playing casually like me, I can pin-point the sounds easily, but not as easily as those others.


 
 So you would say that the HD650 would easily beat the 770s? In terms of pin pointing sounds?

  


nicobombai said:


> HD650 > HD600/DT990 > DT770 imo.
> HD650 to be the best, in that order.
> I got the Dt770, play csgo, bf1 & bf4, very immersive if you're playing casually like me, I can pin-point the sounds easily, but not as easily as those others.


 
  
  


purpleangel said:


> The DT990 would be considered the best option, for FPS gaming.


 
 I have been keeping my eyes on the DT series but I'm afraid the earcups would be too uncomfortable compared to the HD600/650 as I would be using them for long hours.


nicobombai said:


> HD650 > HD600/DT990 > DT770 imo.
> HD650 to be the best, in that order.
> I got the Dt770, play csgo, bf1 & bf4, very immersive if you're playing casually like me, I can pin-point the sounds easily, but not as easily as those others.


 
  
  


yethal said:


> Is there a "none of the above" option somewhere? Beyers will be all right but not on par with either K701, HD598 or AD700.


 
 You're saying that the HD650 and 600 wouldn't be good at all?


----------



## rudyae86

kaireipy said:


> If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 DT990 would be the better option from all of those to be honest.
  
 Is there a reason why you consider any of those headphones?
  
 for FPS gaming that still give you immersion and great positional accuracy, K series headphones from AKG would be great. Or you can go with the HD598 or the new HD599 from Sennheiser. Or you can also go with Philips Fidelio X2 which is a good all around-er.


----------



## kaireipy

rudyae86 said:


> DT990 would be the better option from all of those to be honest.
> 
> Is there a reason why you consider any of those headphones?
> 
> for FPS gaming that still give you immersion and great positional accuracy, K series headphones from AKG would be great. Or you can go with the HD598 or the new HD599 from Sennheiser. Or you can also go with Philips Fidelio X2 which is a good all around-er.


 
 To me the DT990s doesn't look like they will fit my ears for long hours without feeling uncomfortable (same goes for Fidelio X2) Considering I've been used to Sennheiser's oval earcups. That's why I am not considering to get the HD650 or 600 for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I want the 6XX. 

Currently playing the Infinite Warfare campaign. Honestly like it more than Titanfall 2's campaign so far.

Looks amazing on the PS4 Pro. Best optimization for the Pro enabled games so far. I tested TLOU, Infamous, Titanfall, IW. Not even close. IW looks legit. I could care less about either of their multiplayers though. That is reserved entirely for Modern Warfare, once Im done with my backlog. I need to find BF1 for rental tomorrow, so I can get through the campaign.


----------



## pietcux

mad lust envy said:


> I want the 6XX.
> 
> Currently playing the Infinite Warfare campaign. Honestly like it more than Titanfall 2's campaign so far.
> 
> Looks amazing on the PS4 Pro. Best optimization for the Pro enabled games so far. I tested TLOU, Infamous, Titanfall, IW. Not even close. IW looks legit. I could care less about either of their multiplayers though. That is reserved entirely for Modern Warfare, once Im done with my backlog. I need to find BF1 for rental tomorrow, so I can get through the campaign.



I play the campaigns of Titanfall 2, COD IW and COD MW remastered in parallel right now. All on PC sound gies through Xonar STX gaming preset 8 channel. All great games, CODs are more story driven. Love them all.


----------



## Arniesb

mad lust envy said:


> I want the 6XX.
> 
> Currently playing the Infinite Warfare campaign. Honestly like it more than Titanfall 2's campaign so far.
> 
> Looks amazing on the PS4 Pro. Best optimization for the Pro enabled games so far. I tested TLOU, Infamous, Titanfall, IW. Not even close. IW looks legit. I could care less about either of their multiplayers though. That is reserved entirely for Modern Warfare, once Im done with my backlog. I need to find BF1 for rental tomorrow, so I can get through the campaign.


Going to blast IW campaign this night after ive done my job today. I gotta say these years are incredible for gaming.


----------



## kaireipy

mad lust envy said:


> I want the 6XX.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thank you

 PS. FPS Gaming, Soundstage has to be good so player positioning is good!

 thank you once again


----------



## lenroot77

purpleangel said:


> The DT990 would be considered the best option, for FPS gaming.




Agree with this for sure! Having owned all of these the soundstage and positioning of the hd600/650 and dt770 don't compare. As mentioned u may consider an Akg headphone? I'd go K7xx/ K712 personally.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> I want the 6XX.
> 
> Currently playing the Infinite Warfare campaign. Honestly like it more than Titanfall 2's campaign so far.
> 
> Looks amazing on the PS4 Pro. Best optimization for the Pro enabled games so far. I tested TLOU, Infamous, Titanfall, IW. Not even close. IW looks legit. I could care less about either of their multiplayers though. That is reserved entirely for Modern Warfare, once Im done with my backlog. I need to find BF1 for rental tomorrow, so I can get through the campaign.




Digital Foundy seems to really like Battlefield I'll be curious to see it on PS4. It looked very nice on Xbox one s with the HDR.

I picked up tomb raider last week on the target sale and I have high hopes for this one on the PS4 pro. 

Skyrim looks a bit crisper with a slightly better draw distance. My assumption is Fallout 4 will be about the same. 

Mad Lust Envy did you pick up a new set? What did u deceive on?


----------



## kaireipy

lenroot77 said:


> Agree with this for sure! Having owned all of these the soundstage and positioning of the hd600/650 and dt770 don't compare. As mentioned u may consider an Akg headphone? I'd go K7xx/ K712 personally.




Would you say the AKG is better in terms of gaming compared to the 990s? Also does the K712 require an amp?


----------



## lenroot77

kaireipy said:


> Would you say the AKG is better in terms of gaming compared to the 990s? Also does the K712 require an amp?




I personally find them a bit more comfortable, slightly larger soundstage. The sound signature is a bit more balanced than the dt990 as well. Dt990 is a love /hate headphone with it's sound signature. While I did enjoy it myself, there are many people who do not care for the V shaped sound signature. Those sensitive to high frequencies specifically.
An amp is recommended for the Akgs... they are deceptively hungry.


----------



## kaireipy

lenroot77 said:


> I personally find them a bit more comfortable, slightly larger soundstage. The sound signature is a bit more balanced than the dt990 as well. Dt990 is a love /hate headphone with it's sound signature. While I did enjoy it myself, there are many people who do not care for the V shaped sound signature. Those sensitive to high frequencies specifically.
> An amp is recommended for the Akgs... they are deceptively hungry.


 
 Does the AKG really require an amp considering it's only 62 Ohms?


----------



## PurpleAngel

kaireipy said:


> Does the AKG really require an amp considering it's only 62 Ohms?


 
  
 The 62-Ohm AKG headphones are slightly more power hungry then a 250-Ohm Beyer headphone.
 Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifer, is around $80.


----------



## Yethal

Guys, I have an idea you might like. Since this is a gaming thread/guide and a lot of us use microphones how about we start assigning scores to headphones based on how easy it is to use a microphone with it? Exemplary scale might go like this:

Headset (comes with a microphone)
Allows for BoomPro/CHG/Similar products with no issues (Fidelio X2)
Allows for BoomPro/CHG/Similar but uses a recessed/custom input (Soundmagic iirc uses such input)
Requires an adapter to use and the adapter is readily available (HD5XX series)
Requires an adapter and it is expensive/has high lead time (AKG KXX series)
Requires a custom made adapter (Most double-entry headphones)
Has a hard-wired cable.
  
 Tell me what you think!


----------



## fuzun

Best entry level choice is SHP9500 ?


----------



## RedHarlow

Can someone recommend me a closed headphone with a wide soundstage? I would prefer a headphone with a deatchable cable so I can use my v-moda boom pro.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I want the 6XX.
> 
> Currently playing the Infinite Warfare campaign. Honestly like it more than Titanfall 2's campaign so far.
> 
> Looks amazing on the PS4 Pro. Best optimization for the Pro enabled games so far. I tested TLOU, Infamous, Titanfall, IW. Not even close. IW looks legit. I could care less about either of their multiplayers though. That is reserved entirely for Modern Warfare, once Im done with my backlog. I need to find BF1 for rental tomorrow, so I can get through the campaign.




Edit: Forget it. I have the worst phone ever...


----------



## inseconds99

redharlow said:


> Can someone recommend me a closed headphone with a wide soundstage? I would prefer a headphone with a deatchable cable so I can use my v-moda boom pro.


 
 Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7


----------



## rudyae86

Test Video of Sennheiser's GSX 1000
  
 Credit goes to shankly1985 @overclockers forums
  
 Opinions?
  
  
 
  
 Here is another:
 
  
 IMO it sounds less warmer than DH but more clear as well. Also, seems like directional cues are better, especially the rear "speakers". Trying to remember how THX sounds from my Recon3D and SBX when I had the SB Z.....not sure but I might have to bring out the Recon3D to the PC to test it with my PC Games...


----------



## nicobombai

kaireipy said:


> So you would say that the HD650 would easily beat the 770s? In terms of pin pointing sounds?


 
  
 Yes, easily, open backs have more soundstage versus closed back, although 770s have a good soundstage for a closed back.
 I haven't tried the 650 for gaming personally, only used them for a mere 5-10 mins. DT990 is super fun for gaming, positioning and also imaging, tried em for csgo a while ago, too bad its hella expensive from where i'm from. HD600 is slightly below DT990 from my experience. I think you better audition all the headphones for yourself to be sure 
  
 If u want to easily pinpoint enemies get an open back headphone but mind you, in a noisy environment, those thing can be annoying. People can listen to what you're listening and also you can listen to their chatter in the room.
  
 EDIT: i'm also still learning so i might pick up a thing or two from these guys here and me as a source can be not so reliable


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kaireipy said:


> If you had to choose only 1 headphones solely for gaming, would you choose DT770, DT990, HD600 or the HD650? Your input would mean a lot!   Thank you
> 
> 
> PS. FPS Gaming, Soundstage has to be good so player positioning is good!
> ...




Out of your choices, the DT990.

My personal recommendation however is that you try the K7XX, K712, or K702 Anniversary instead. Whichever is cheapest at the time. Those are better all rounders than your choices., even for fps.

As for closed headphones, I forget my recommendations. Lol. 770 Pro 80 is fine, though quite boomy, so I only suggest it for casual gaming.

As for CoD, I LOVE the dogfights, the selectable missions (no longer are you funneled through the full campaign), and the Mass Effect like vibe in terms of the ship. It really is the best CoD campaign in years.


----------



## kaireipy

mad lust envy said:


> Out of your choices, the DT990.
> 
> My personal recommendation however is that you try the K7XX, K712, or K702 Anniversary instead. Whichever is cheapest at the time. Those are better all rounders than your choices., even for fps.
> 
> ...



I'm thinking of getting the K712, are there any significant difference between the K712, KXX & the K702? Also what amp should I get together with them? Thank you. 

PS are the DT990 earcup's dimensions bigger than the K712?

@Mad Lust Envy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lenroot77 said:


> Digital Foundy seems to really like Battlefield I'll be curious to see it on PS4. It looked very nice on Xbox one s with the HDR.
> 
> I picked up tomb raider last week on the target sale and I have high hopes for this one on the PS4 pro.
> 
> ...




Nah. Still on my HE-400. Serving me well. Just want the 6XX as a non explosive alternative, but no way I'm spending any money on audio right now, lol.

I wish I never bought Rise of TR on PC almost a year ago. I have yet to play through it. Its too much for mine. I would've picked it up for the Pro.


----------



## Atavax

mad lust envy said:


> Nah. Still on my HE-400. Serving me well. Just want the 6XX as a non explosive alternative, but no way I'm spending any money on audio right now, lol.
> 
> I wish I never bought Rise of TR on PC almost a year ago. I have yet to play through it. Its too much for mine. I would've picked it up for the Pro.


 

 sorry if you've answered this before, what amp do you use with the HE 400?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Creative X7 LE.

Had it for a while. It's served me well. A couple of dumb things about it, like sometimes having to unplug and plug headphones in to get the amp to switch from speaker mode to headphones, but I've become accustomed to its eccentricities.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kaireipy said:


> I'm thinking of getting the K712, are there any significant difference between the K712, KXX & the K702? Also what amp should I get together with them? Thank you.
> 
> PS are the DT990 earcup's dimensions bigger than the K712?
> 
> @Mad Lust Envy




No which is why I'm saying to pick whichever is cheaper at time of buying. Should be the 7XX, but I dunno how often they are available. Never bought from Massdrop.

And I mean the 702 Anniversary, not the standard. Look at the first page for differences.


----------



## kaireipy

mad lust envy said:


> No which is why I'm saying to pick whichever is cheaper at time of buying. Should be the 7XX, but I dunno how often they are available. Never bought from Massdrop.
> 
> And I mean the 702 Anniversary, not the standard. Look at the first page for differences.




The Annie isn't gonna be cheaper. But do you think the price difference from K712 and the Annie is justified?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Essentially the same thing. By cheaper I mean if you happen to find a used one or something. 

Just get which is cheapest for you. The three are interchangeable.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

mad lust envy said:


> Nah. Still on my HE-400. Serving me well. Just want the 6XX as a non explosive alternative, but no way I'm spending any money on audio right now, lol.
> 
> I wish I never bought Rise of TR on PC almost a year ago. I have yet to play through it. Its too much for mine. I would've picked it up for the Pro.


 


 Rise of TR runs pretty well on my very very modest r9 270x ( by todays standards its a pretty weak card).
 The ps4 pro is a huge hardware bargain tbh , you cant really build an equivalent pc for 400 dollars .
 The ps4 pro gpu is a very underclocked rx 480 which alone is a 220 dollar gpu .
 Pretty impressive stuff by sony , as a pc gamer I think this new console is really impressive overall in terms of hardware power .


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would not say it's an underclocked 480. It has two gpus.


----------



## lenroot77

kaireipy said:


> I'm thinking of getting the K712, are there any significant difference between the K712, KXX & the K702? Also what amp should I get together with them? Thank you.
> 
> PS are the DT990 earcup's dimensions bigger than the K712?
> 
> @Mad Lust Envy




There isn't much of a difference between the k712 and K7xx... I've owned both multiple times.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

mad lust envy said:


> I would not say it's an underclocked 480. It has two gpus.


 
  
 I dont mean gtx 480 . I mean the rx 480 from AMD . It has been proved its a underclocked rx 480 . The ps4 pro has 4.2 Tflops ( in total)  versus the 5.2 tflops of a full fledged rx 480.
  
 Still a very respectable card since that gpu alone is like 200 dollars.


----------



## kaireipy

lenroot77 said:


> There isn't much of a difference between the k712 and K7xx... I've owned both multiple times.




What AMP did you use?


----------



## RedHarlow

inseconds99 said:


> Sony ATH-MSR7


 
  
 I think you mean Audio Technica because I can't find a Sony headphone with that name.


----------



## shuto77

It seems like the PS4 Pro is a solid upgrade on paper, but (like most new technologies), the content to enjoy the new tech is about 6-12 behind taking advantage the hardware. I have a new 4K TV on the way (Samsung UN65KS8000), and trusting Rtings's review, which is more positive than other experts whom I respect. 
  
 Is the Pro worth the plunge at this point, or am I better off waiting a few months until more titles are in place to take advantage of the additional processing power?


----------



## NewVegasBaby

shuto77 said:


> It seems like the PS4 Pro is a solid upgrade on paper, but (like most new technologies), the content to enjoy the new tech is about 6-12 behind taking advantage the hardware. I have a new 4K TV on the way (Samsung UN65KS8000), and trusting Rtings's review, which is more positive than other experts whom I respect.
> 
> Is the Pro worth the plunge at this point, or am I better off waiting a few months until more titles are in place to take advantage of the additional processing power?


 
 If you have a 4k tv its worth it IMO . It doesnt do native 4k but it upscales very high resolutions like 1800p and at pretty decent frame rates.
 Either way its the best dollar to performance at the moment and a 400 dollar pc wont even touch it there.
 4k gaming on the pc is also very expensive , you need a gtx 1080p for serious 4k gaming at decent settings and framerates . This is the current reality .


----------



## TeeReQs

rudyae86 said:


> Test Video of Sennheiser's GSX 1000
> 
> Credit goes to shankly1985 @overclockers forums
> 
> ...


 
 Thanks for posting this up. I wish I had some headphones here at work to listen to this. I'll listen to it tonight and tell you what I think. I'm really interested in this if I could use it on console too.
  
  
  
 On Saturday I finally had a chance to test out the X7, and honestly I came away pretty underwhelmed. To be fair I only used it for a couple of games on Modern Warfare Remastered and I was pretty tired. There are so many settings on this thing. First I played with SBX enabled at default settings, which was olkay, and then used these settings found over on XIM4: http://xim4.com/community/index.php?PHPSESSID=Cm8R9rjGynFO3vO-vNIWX0&topic=45716.0
  
 With these settings it didn't sound that great, but the positional accuracy was there. SBX definitely feels more spacial than DH, especially when your turn surround up to 100%. I used my double amped Mixamp for most of the weekend switching back and forth between the K7XX and AD700x. I still think that combo sounded better than the X7. I'm going to play around a little more with it tonight, and maybe try it on PC to compare to my X-Fi Titanium HD. 
  
 Should be getting a DGX in the mail in the next day or so, so I'll be able to try that out as well. At this point though, I'm thinking of returning the X7, and keeping the Mixamp for Console Xbox/PS4 and buying a Modi 2 Uber to make a Schiit stack for PC. THe whole point of the X7 was to get rid of all these wires, but hooking it up to the Xbox and retaining chat still has a ton of wires. The PS4 is a much cleaner setup for chat on the X7, but I play a lot more Xbox One than PS4, since most of my friends are on Xbox Live. I like how the mixamp only has one wire to the controller and everything else feeds to the Mixamp. We'll see if my feelings change after testing some more tonight.


----------



## Change is Good

Titanfall 2 is currently $30 at Walmart.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Titanfall-2-PS4/52599732


----------



## Vader2k

change is good said:


> Titanfall 2 is currently $30 at Walmart.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Titanfall-2-PS4/52599732


 
  
 Doesn't seem to allow you to add to cart on desktop, but it worked on mobile... and now I own a copy. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 This wasn't on my radar, but too good of a price to pass on.  Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## inseconds99

redharlow said:


> I think you mean Audio Technica because I can't find a Sony headphone with that name.


 
 LOL I did, thank you for noticing, changed it to Audio technica.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Titanfall 2 is currently $30 at Walmart.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Titanfall-2-PS4/52599732


 
  
 I think amazon has it too for Xbox One, same price.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> I would not say it's an underclocked 480. It has two gpus.




Where do people come up with this stuff? Second time I've seen the "PS4 Pro is dual-GPU" comment. Er no. It uses an APU (AMD semi-custom SoC) with the 2 Jaguar CPUs (4 cores per CPU), GCN CUs, and IMCs on the same die. It's not possible for it to be dual-GPU if there's only 1 physical chip. The GPU part of the APU is fully-enabled Polaris 10 equivalent to an underclocked RX 480.


----------



## octiceps

newvegasbaby said:


> The ps4 pro has 4.2 Tflops ( in total)  versus the 5.2 tflops of a full fledged rx 480.




Also the RX 480 at its 1266 MHz boost clock comes out to 5.8 TFLOPS.


----------



## Diamondpact

Hi, how is everyone. It has been a while since ive last been on haha. I was looking to get the creative x7 or the x7 limited edition.
  
 I currently have the magni 2 uber and modi 2 uber stacks with the akg k7xx headphones. I was looking into these as they also work for the ps4 and provide audio enhancements for gaming on the consoles as well as the pc and any other devices i connect it to. 
  
 What is the difference between the two creative products? Does the 2.5 ohms make a difference between the 1 ohm impedence? especially on my k7xx or my logitech speakers?
  
 Is there a better alternative? such as a reciever that offers the same gaming options and with dolby atmos or something?
  
 I also saw that it allows for 5.1 audio. Does that mean that I can connect my old logitech z906 5.1 speaker system to these? 
  
 I did alot of researtch and still cant make a decision unfortunately :*(.
  
 Sorry I forgot to add, is creative working on an x8 or something? Then id wait if thats the case haha.
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> Hi, how is everyone. It has been a while since ive last been on haha. I was looking to get the creative x7 or the x7 limited edition.
> I currently have the magni 2 uber and modi 2 uber stacks with the akg k7xx headphones. I was looking into these as they also work for the ps4 and provide audio enhancements for gaming on the consoles as well as the pc and any other devices i connect it to.
> What is the difference between the two creative products? Does the 2.5 ohms make a difference between the 1 ohm impedance? especially on my k7xx or my Logitech speakers?
> Is there a better alternative? such as a receiver that offers the same gaming options and with dolby atmos or something?
> ...


 
  
 If you connect the PS4 optically to the Logitech Z906 and enable Dolby in the PS4's audio settings, you will get 5.1 audio thru the Z906.
 So far can't see a good reason for replacing the Schiit Stack.


----------



## TeeReQs

diamondpact said:


> Hi, how is everyone. It has been a while since ive last been on haha. I was looking to get the creative x7 or the x7 limited edition.
> 
> I currently have the magni 2 uber and modi 2 uber stacks with the akg k7xx headphones. I was looking into these as they also work for the ps4 and provide audio enhancements for gaming on the consoles as well as the pc and any other devices i connect it to.
> 
> ...


 
 This is taken directly from @earfonia's review on the X7.
  
_"The differences of the SB X7 Limited Edition to the standard edition are:
 1. Approximately 1 ohm headphone output impedance. Lower output impedance than the 2.2 ohm on the standard SB X7.
 2. High power, 144 watts power adapter, while the standard edition comes with the 69.84 watts power adapter._
_3. White color."_
  
 I think you might notice the difference on some IEM's but other than that save your money and get the standard. Unless you' like the white.
  
 I just bought a limited, because it was on sale through Creative for $350, which was the same price as the standard X7. Looks like Amazon has the Standard on sale for $299.99USD right now though. If I bought it again I'd go with the standard because it matches everything else on my desk. I haven't been fully impressed with mine yet, but I will be testing some more tonight and will report back. I think the Schiit stack is a better (cheaper) option unless you want/need all the features the X7 Provides. If you grab a Xonar U3 or DGX you can pipe Dolby Headphone to your Modi for VSS, and then use a Mixamp or similar device for console gaming. I think I'm going to go that route if I can't get this X7 to sound like I want it to. The new Sennheiser GSX-1000/1200 looks nice, but it won't do as much as the X7, and they aren't readily available yet. It's more of a glorified Mixamp compared to a do it all type like the X7 is though. My .02.


----------



## Diamondpact

oh wow, really? Thats good to know I will try that out. Ive read that optical out only supports 2.0 and in 5.1 it is heavily compressed. Does that mean that the audio quality will be terrible or alot worse? Would it reduce the competitive aspect for gaming in terms of sound and positional accuracy?
  
 Would it output positional audio accurately through the speakers like finding out where the footsteps, shots, ect come from?
  
 I agree, I am loving the schiit stack. I was interested in all the software that the x7 was offering and with the full uncompressed 5.1 output. Will audio quality be noticable from optical out from ps4 straight into z906 vs usb from ps4 to x7 into z906?
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## TeeReQs

@Diamondpact
  
 Also if you haven't seen this thread, there is some good info about the X7 and its counterparts.
  
 http://xim4.com/community/index.php?topic=44576.0


----------



## Diamondpact

interesting, so scout mode is useless for competitive play? 
  
 also there no Dolby Digital in the x7? is there a better external sound card offering all the features I need for competitive gameplay on both the ps4 and pc? i currently have the ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channel PCI-E Sound Card 24BIT Dolby Digital 116DB SNR on my pc.


----------



## Evshrug

diamondpact said:


> interesting, so scout mode is useless for competitive play?
> 
> also there no Dolby Digital in the x7? is there a better external sound card offering all the features I need for competitive gameplay on both the ps4 and pc? i currently have the ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channel PCI-E Sound Card 24BIT Dolby Digital 116DB SNR on my pc.




Scout Mode throws off my sense of depth, but it does kind of magnify the quiet stuff, quiet the super loud, and apply a bit of an EQ adjustment. I have used it as a quick way to hear stuff when I'm tired and easily irritated, but competitively it does throw me off.

Dolby Digital and Dolby Headphone are two different things. DD is the company and DDLive is what the consoles output (or bitstream), the X7 or Mixamp understand that DDL signal and then use another algorithm (Mixamp uses Dolby Headphone while the X7 uses SBX surround) to create a mix that "sounds" properly surround when played through headphones.


----------



## Diamondpact

i see, what about if i connect it to my pc through usb, then i wont be having ddl out to it the x7? so itll just be sbx on its own. wont that affect the surround experience?


----------



## Diamondpact

hmm, i read somewhere that the x7 doesnt support dolby digital live at all. That is very dissappointing.
  
 Does anybody know of a good audiophile grade home theatre system or reciever that doesnt break the bank with similiar or greater specs to the x7 but with dolby digital live and other features as well for gaming?
  
 It would be ideal if it also have no audio and video latency or very neglegible amount of it. l've read hdmi is better than usb and optical for audio as it can send uncompressed audio and with video.
  
 Iwould appreciate all the suggestions, thanks in advanced! Ps, it it also supports other standards like dolby atmos, thatd be awesome!.
  
 Thanks in advanced!


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> oh wow, really? Thats good to know I will try that out. Ive read that optical out only supports 2.0 and in 5.1 it is heavily compressed. Does that mean that the audio quality will be terrible or alot worse? Would it reduce the competitive aspect for gaming in terms of sound and positional accuracy?
> Would it output positional audio accurately through the speakers like finding out where the footsteps, shots, ect come from?
> I agree, I am loving the schiit stack. I was interested in all the software that the x7 was offering and with the full uncompressed 5.1 output. Will audio quality be noticeable from optical out from ps4 straight into Z906 vs usb from ps4 to x7 into z906?
> Thanks in advanced!


 
  
 Dolby can encode/compress up to six channels, at a maximum of 24-bit/48K, to send thru S/PDIF (optical/coaxial).
 CD-audio is 16-bit/44.1K
 I think DVD movies max out at around 24-bit/48K
 I would assume(?) you would not have any noticeable audio quality loss for gaming.
  
 Not sure if the PS4 will send more then 2.0 audio, thru USB, to the Creative X7, but I'm not the expert on that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> interesting, so scout mode is useless for competitive play?
> 
> also there no Dolby Digital in the x7? is there a better external sound card offering all the features I need for competitive gameplay on both the ps4 and pc? i currently have the ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channel PCI-E Sound Card 24BIT Dolby Digital 116DB SNR on my pc.


 
  
 The Creative X7 does come with Dolby Digital, so it can decode/un-compress the audio that comes thru optical.
  
 The Asus Xonar DX comes with Dolby Headphone and a nice CS4398 DAC chip, but it's Headphone/Front speaker line-output jack is not the best for driving headphone (impedance issues).
 Best to use an external headphone amplifier with it, have you tried plugging the Magni directly into it.


----------



## TeeReQs

Spent some more time with the X7 tonight, and actually listening to some music through it as I type this...you can probably tell where this is going.
  
 First I tested the PC side of things, since I never had a chance to do that over the weekend. Played the same songs back to back on the X7 (using Direct Mode), and my X-Fi Titanium HD > O2 in _Entertainment _mode. As far as amping goes, they both sound good, with the X7 being a little warmer to my ears compared to the O2. Next I wanted to test out SBX vs CMSSS-3D, so I played one game of Conquest on BF1 using the X-Fi and one game using the X7 (SBX enabled 100%, and eq set with an emphasis on mids). Sound in windows  SBX really does pick up a lot of sounds around you, and is quite immersive, but at the same time so is CMSS-3D. I think with some tweaking I could get SBX to sound just as good as CMSS-3D, but in reality they are both very similar.
  
 Next up was a few games on Xbox. I played 3 games of search and destroy on MWR using the X7, and then 3 using the Mixamp double amped to my O2. I must have been tired the other night when I first tried this thing, because just like on PC, you hear so many things that you don't on the mixamp. The soundstage is absolutely huge, but you can still pinpoint where footsteps are coming from, and if they are above or below you. Definitely more impressed than I was initially. I'm torn because the PC performance was about equal between the X-Fi and X7, but I think the X7 wins out compared to the mixamp on Xbox. I'll have to wait and test back to back on PC again when my DGX arrives and I can put the X7 up against that. It should have pretty similar results to the Mixamp vs X7. I regret not getting the standard edition of the X7 though. This white really clashes with my setup. Might have to return this LE and buy a standard since it's on sale right now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

newvegasbaby said:


> I dont mean gtx 480 . I mean the rx 480 from AMD . It has been proved its a underclocked rx 480 . The ps4 pro has 4.2 Tflops ( in total)  versus the 5.2 tflops of a full fledged rx 480.
> 
> Still a very respectable card since that gpu alone is like 200 dollars.




I know you meant the RX480. Did I put GTX 480. That was an error.

I dunno. In any case, it's impressive what they came up with to make it work.

I think checkerboard rendering should be an option for PC games as well. It would reduce requirements by a considerable amount for not a humongous hit to visuals. I seen checkerboard artifacts, and they are hard to see when you're not focused on looking for them.


----------



## Diamondpact

wow, thanks for the indepth review and help you guys are giving me.
  
 Yup, I am currently doing optical out to my schiit stack.
  
 TeeReQs review comparing x7 with the mixamp is also sweet, the fact that it obliterates the mixamp from the sounds of it is making it very tempting for me at the moment. 
  
 How is the sound quality of the x7 vs the magni 2 uber and mmodi 2 uber stack?


----------



## TeeReQs

diamondpact said:


> wow, thanks for the indepth review and help you guys are giving me.
> 
> Yup, I am currently doing optical out to my schiit stack.
> 
> ...


 
 I wouldn't say it obliterates it. The Mixamp still does a great job with Dolby Headphone as pinpointing enemy locations, but with the X7 you have a lot more adjust ability in the settings, and you just hear things you wouldn't with the Mixamp, even when double amped. Now, not all these sounds are ones you want to hear when you're trying to locate other players, but it helps with the immersiveness for sure. They're just different, and if you can I would recommend trying out both. I assume you already use Dolby Headphone on PC since I think you said you have a Xonar DX, correct?
  
 I have a Magni as well, but it's not hooked up right now, because I prefer the O2, but both actually sound pretty similar to each other. My O2 is hooked up straight to my X-Fi Soundcard, so that's my DAC. Like I said, in terms of PC usage I think the X7 compared to the X-Fi/O2 is really similar. Just depends on if you want to shell out the money for the X7. Schiit Stack is a great setup for PC, but if you game on console too you'll need another device to get virtual surround if that's what you're after.


----------



## Diamondpact

yes, thats the predicament that I am currently in. I figured that I might as well choose the x7 over the mixamp as its on sale and will work on pc as well if necessary. 
  
 I figured worst case I can give my stack to my brother if the x7 is similiar or better than my stack. I can have optical out from my soundcard to the x7 which will give me ddl and also use it for ps4 or other consoles.
  
 i might have to get the x7 anyway it seems since its also for consoles haha. Will it be able to replace my schiit stack? so from sound card optical out to x7. or would that be a side grade or a marginal improvement?
  
 thats interesting when you said that adjusting the eq settings can get you to replicate the different gaming features like cmss3d ect? thats another plus cuz then id basically not be missing much, since the ddl that its missing i can get from ps4 directly and from sound card for pc correct?
  
 also will my z906 5.1 work well on the x7? 
  
 It sounds like an efficient all in one solution


----------



## Yethal

diamondpact said:


> hmm, i read somewhere that the x7 doesnt support dolby digital live at all. That is very dissappointing.
> 
> Does anybody know of a good audiophile grade home theatre system or reciever that doesnt break the bank with similiar or greater specs to the x7 but with dolby digital live and other features as well for gaming?
> 
> ...



X7 does support dolby digital live.


----------



## Diamondpact

it only decodes ddl im assuming. or does it encode it too? so any source with ddl live will go through and play out of the x7. Thanks for the clarification. ive read on the specs page it said dolby digital decoding but no mention of dolby digital live decoding. Dunno how they could forget to add that haha


----------



## Diamondpact

I read some reviews stating that the amp only supports 2.0 on the x7, would that mean it cant run surround on a 5,1 speaker setup like the z906? 
  
 Also theres no hdmi for lossless, is there a better solution than the x7 that supports hdmi and all the gaming features? or is the x7 the best we got for that? 
  
 The x7 would have been god tier if it had hdmi :*(. Are there home theatre systems or recievers that has the competitive gaming features for audio like ddl ect. 
  
  Sorry for all the questions, im still a noob when it comes to audio and I really want to get an awesome setup that works for both pc and console gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Realiser A16 has all the fancy stuff people have been dreaming about. 
 Well, probably no voice chat. No problem for me. 
  
 btw: The *Sennheiser GSX 1000* has some non-vine Amazon reviews with people familiar with SBX, DHP and Co. and it comes off at the top with its VST. As usual one needs to test it all by himself of course.
  
 the downside of that unit is what I feared: the amp part is not suitable to HD800 and Co, and there is no optical out to send that VST to an external unit.


----------



## raband

fegefeuer said:


> Realiser A16 has all the fancy stuff people have been dreaming about.
> Well, probably no voice chat.


 
  


> the Realiser A16 connects directly to video game consoles and PCs, and has dedicated support for on-line game chat and microphone signals.


 
 https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1959366850/realiser-a16-real-3d-audio-headphone-processor?token=e7f27544


----------



## Yethal

diamondpact said:


> it only decodes ddl im assuming. or does it encode it too? so any source with ddl live will go through and play out of the x7. Thanks for the clarification. ive read on the specs page it said dolby digital decoding but no mention of dolby digital live decoding. Dunno how they could forget to add that haha



Decoding and passthrough. No encoding. Dunno why would anyone need that.


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> Realiser A16 has all the fancy stuff people have been dreaming about.
> Well, probably no voice chat. No problem for me.
> 
> btw: The *Sennheiser GSX 1000* has some non-vine Amazon reviews with people familiar with SBX, DHP and Co. and it comes off at the top with its VST. As usual one needs to test it all by himself of course.
> ...


 

 You got my hopes up that more people had gotten their hands on a GSX 1000 outside of Vine but it's still only the one reviewl. Oh well. I've been watching this space very closely ever since Sennheiser hinted at gamer-centric gear at RMAF 2015. I very much want to spend some time with the GSX 1000 but for now I'll keep following the thread over on Overclockers.co.uk.
  
 I wouldn't expect an amp in a device like this to do the HD 800 justice. I'll test it when I eventually get my hands on one but you should be able to run the GSX 1000 at max volume into an amp to drive more power hungry headphones. Heck, I may do that even for mine at home simply because the rear-mounted headphone jack on the GSX 1000 was a questionable decision.
  
 Related: The GSX 1000 is in stock at Amazon with only 1 left at the moment. If anyone wants to buy one, get it now. 
  
 I imaging the A16 will be a power house for gaming but we'll cross that bridge when it's available.


----------



## Fegefeuer

On amazon.co.uk there is another one:
  
"Testing on BF1 I can safely say this is by far the best positioning audio I've ever heard. Not only that but its incredibly immersive. You can actually hear/feel the direction of the wind. Its almost too much to take in at first. I've been around the block when it comes to simulated surround below is a list of what I've used before

Creative XFI
Razer Surround Software
Mixamp
Creative G5
Sound blaster z
Sound blaster ZXR
Asus Xonar"
  
 If the HD 700 was aline with the Sennheiser quality like 600, 650, 800 I'd even go so far and get a 700 just for being easier to drive and thus "compatible" with the GSX. However no point.
  
 https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18749909&page=6
  
*here are a few videos with GSX*, but *recorded with story mode*, *not everything off*, thus only 7.1, unfortunately. pure 7.1 would be most interesting
  
 Bioshock Infinite on the GSX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVjL6ej0OkQ
 GTA V on the GSX https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=mkm_GIu7iQs
 GTA V water test on the GSX https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aafq3ANwxR0 (this is actually pure 7.1 mode)


----------



## lenroot77

GSX 1000 is pc only?


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> On amazon.co.uk there is another one:
> 
> [snip]


 
  
 Oh ok, cool. That amazon reviewer may be the same guy who has been talking in the thread I mentioned above. Those videos were helpful and they were also linked here a page or two back. I'll have to look over the other Amazon reviews to see what they say. Strange that we don't see those reviews here on the US version of Amazon, I figured we would since it's the same product.
  


lenroot77 said:


> GSX 1000 is pc only?


 
  
 To my knowledge, yes. It's USB input only. It might work with PS4 but I have no way to test it until I have one.


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> GSX 1000 is pc only?


 
 I believe so. Only USB, so it's possible it would work with PS4, but we'll need someone to try it out first. If it had optical, I'd probably snatch the last one up to test out.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Realiser A16 has all the fancy stuff people have been dreaming about.
> Well, probably no voice chat. No problem for me.
> 
> btw: The *Sennheiser GSX 1000* has some non-vine Amazon reviews with people familiar with SBX, DHP and Co. and it comes off at the top with its VST. As usual one needs to test it all by himself of course.
> ...




Thanks for helping to clear up some of the misinformation. By the way, the Realiser doesn't have a built-in mic but it does support chat with a port just for that. More clarity on that after someone gets it hands-on. For others, here's a few more points:

Dolby Digital Live is often abbreviated to just Dolby Digital Surround, Dolby Digital, or just DD. I figured it would be best to point out the full name once, BUT the X7 does indeed decode DD or passthrough optical. Need me to find where in Creative's site or support page it says so? I just know it works in practice, while typical DACs would just produce an ear splitting static hiss.

For PC, you would ideally just connect the X7 with USB. Having an extra soundcard in your computer is just a waste as the X7 can fully replace it (and have a quieter background), plus using USB lets you leave it connected to PC (via USB) and console (via Optical) constantly without having to unplug things or change settings.

I'd comfortably say the X7's DAC is at least as good or better than the Modi, the Magni is a bit stronger but also harder and drier because it has the Schiit house sound. I own a Bifrost Uber, but I don't feel like I need it because the X7 isn't far off and the X7 easily is connected to everything.

The X7 has powered speaker taps for passive bookshelf speakers, and 5.1 speaker outputs for connecting to active speakers like the Logitech set someone else mentioned or pretty much any computer desktop speakers.


----------



## TeeReQs

I just ordered a standard X7. Going to return the limited and keep the standard since A) it's $50 cheaper, and B) The white clashes with the rest of my setup. OCD always wins.


----------



## AxelCloris

teereqs said:


> I just ordered a standard X7. Going to return the limited and keep the standard since A) it's $50 cheaper, and B) The white clashes with the rest of my setup. OCD always wins.


 

 If you have any plans to use speakers then the limited edition is the only way to go IMO, otherwise the X7 is enough for most people.


----------



## TeeReQs

axelcloris said:


> If you have any plans to use speakers then the limited edition is the only way to go IMO, otherwise the X7 is enough for most people.


 
 No plans to, but this is a good point for anybody thinking one or the other. I've always just used headphones, and I don't have room at my desk for speakers anyways. Thanks for the heads up though. If I did have some speakers I'd definitely keep the limited.


----------



## raband

axelcloris said:


> If you have any plans to use speakers then the limited edition is the only way to go IMO, otherwise the X7 is enough for most people.


 
  
 You can also just grab a high power adapter brick to allow the extra amplification later on for the speakers.


----------



## AxelCloris

Don't forget about the lower output impedance on the LE versus the normal version. There aren't many multi-BA IEM or high-sensitivity headphone gamers out there but those who do will certainly want to consider the LE for the 1 ohm output vs the 2.2 ohm found on the standard X7.
  
 You can absolutely add the high power brick to the black X7 which is great for someone who wants to add it later. The output impedance can't be changed.


----------



## TeeReQs

Basically..If you have speakers and IEM's get the Limited. If not, buy the standard.


----------



## Diamondpact

how isGSX 1000 compared to the x7's?
  
 Also which would be better for competitive fps play, actual 5.1 speaker setup or virtual surround through the x7 and my k7xx headphones? That will be my deciding factor between the x7 or x7 LE haha.  
  
 Also thanks for the confirmation. Then I will definitely give my stack to my bro when i choose one of the x7 or GSX 1000 so it wouldnt be a waste or sell it should anyone want as they are in mint condition pretty much haha.
  
 one last question regarding the x7, if i dont go through sound card but straight from usb on pc, would pc be able to send out the audio encoded with DDL or would i be missing that feature? Is there an alternative that it does have that is just as good if not better?
  
 realiser a16 seems like the dream , but its pretty expensive right now and I wonder if they will make a refresh for the 1 downside of it.


----------



## raband

diamondpact said:


> realiser a16 seems like the dream , but its pretty expensive right now and I wonder if they will make a refresh for the 1 downside of it.


 
  
 I can see it becoming even better as room scale VR becomes more mainstream in the future - hopefully some other companies take up the support and it becomes less of a niche.
  
 What was the 1 downside?
  
 Am dying to hear one - I have trouble with the current surround options in regards to frontal positioning (side and rear are fine) - if they can crack that nut for me then it'll go on the "must have" list.


----------



## TeeReQs

diamondpact said:


> how isGSX 1000 compared to the x7's?
> 
> Also which would be better for competitive fps play, actual 5.1 speaker setup or virtual surround through the x7 and my k7xx headphones? That will be my deciding factor between the x7 or x7 LE haha.
> 
> ...


 
 Not enough sample size yet to compare the GSX1000. From the videos it sounds pretty good, but then again this is just a mixamp that you can only use on PC..possibly PS4, but nobody has confirmed that yet. It also isn't a very powerful amp, compared to the X7. The X7 is going to be your best option for an all in one device. My main pair of cans in the K7XX and it sounds great on both PC and Console after confirming it last night. I have it plugged into USB and you get all the surround features. At this moment in time I don't think there is anything like it in one complete package. I'd say get it while it's on sale,and if you don't like it, return it. Creative will let you return something up to 30 days for a full refund no questions asked if you aren't happy.


----------



## rudyae86

Interesting how I posted about the GSX1000 a few days ago and posted about the videos......



Not feeling the love :'(

Lol jk 

For all I know so far is that some say that PS4 only supports 2 channel audio through USB, it isn't a PC and even though the GSX1000 doesn't use drivers on PC, it still wouldn't work on a PS4.

Also....the amp inside the GSX1000 isn't the most powerful but doesn't it have a line out? I think I read it on it's spec sheet? Might be wrong but I think that's what I saw and if true, that could be a great way to use an amp of your choice to drive higher impedance headphones.

I totally forgot to purchase one on amazon lol now they are out. Oh well. I k ow there are other sites that have posted that they will soon have the item but have not checked if they do have it in stock. Best buy, B&H Photo, Adorama to name a few online stores.


----------



## AxelCloris

According to the owner's manual the GSX 1000's speaker output is actually a line out.
  

 [PDF]
  
 When I originally saw that it made me happy because I can easily run to an external headphone amp. Since my monitors require their own amp I could setup a switch to alternate between headphones and speakers.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does it output the "binaural" stereo signal?


----------



## AxelCloris

To my knowledge nobody has tested that yet. I'm hoping to hear one soon, so if nobody tests that before then I will.


----------



## kayan

Has anybody used the Nighthawk for gaming? How is it for clarity, sound stage, and positional cues?


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

kayan said:


> Has anybody used the Nighthawk for gaming? How is it for clarity, sound stage, and positional cues?


 
  
 I have and do. IMO, very good in all three respects. Capable yet enjoyable/immersive.


----------



## rudyae86

BH Photo has the Sennheiser GX 1000 for preorder if any of you want to buy it.
  
 Personally, I'd rather wait for Amazon to have it in stock again because of their ease to return a defective product.
  
Sennheiser GSX 1000


----------



## Fegefeuer

don't have any resources right now, need to sell of a lot of stuff and have other important payments. Else I'd be all over it for you guys.


----------



## Rambi83

OK, I have been reading daily for the last month about soundcards, dac/amps, internal and external solutions to drive my fidelio X2.
 People are all over the place what is best for gaming and especially positional audio, so can i have black on white what will give me the clearest directional/positional sound, 1.External DAC and stereo setting or 2. Propper sound card and some sort of surround software ex; Dolby Headphone.
  
 I will keep the headphones, maybe buy a set off 700x seeing that one is for sale nearby just to try them.
 But, as i stated above, Dac or say X7?
  
 Games; BF1/4
  
 Cheers
 Chris


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7-> X2 for SBX goodness
 X-Fi Titanium HD -> X2 for CMSS-3D
 X-Fi Titanium/Sound Blaster Z -> Modi/Magni -> X2 for CMSS-3D/SBX
  
 CMSS-3D is sharper/clearer in imaging than SBX (mostly due to lesser bass and frequency masking) but that doesn't matter for Battlefield. Not at all. It could matter in Siege if you play it as competitiveness in Siege relies on you hearing tiny details whereas BF is much more about immersion.
  
 so you could get a X7 to your X2 and have a good night, sweetest of all princes!


----------



## Rambi83

Thank you for a swift reply.
 If we play with the thought that money did not matter and the focus was to get the best FPS positioning possible, is there something else "soundcard" that should be considered except for the X7 and X-FI?


----------



## Fegefeuer

SBX is unbeaten as an allrounder, not a lot point in alternatives unless you want hardcore skeletal precision and go with CMSS-3D

SBX has the best balance and least quality loss in the end. CMSS is sometimes hard for those unmodded HD800s.

BF games are all about immersion, DHP also works there but the echo where it doesn't belong can sometimes make the experience a bit "unrealistic"


----------



## caens

Hello guys, I'm from Turkey.

 I'm looking around a $70(max) headset. I will use it %60 fps gaming / %40music and film.

 There may be open-back or closed-back designs. İt doesnt matter. These are my findings;

 Creative Aurvana Live!
 https://www.amazon.com/Creative-EF0060-Aurvana-Live-Headphones/dp/B000ZJZ7OA

 Philips SHP9500
 https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SHP9500-Precision-Over-ear-Headphones/dp/B00ENMK1DW/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1479487221&sr=1-1&keywords=shp9500

 Audio Technica AD500x
 https://www.amazon.com/Technica-AUD-ATHAD500X-Audiophile-Headphones/dp/B009S333U4/ref=sr_1_16?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1479487221&sr=1-16&keywords=shp9500

 HyperX Cloud 2
 https://www.amazon.de/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Kopfh%C3%B6rer-metal/dp/B00SAYCVTQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1479487490&sr=8-2&keywords=hyperx+cloud+2

 I'm especially interested in SHP 9500. How a headset for fps gaming?

 Thanks everyone already!


----------



## Yethal

Overwatch is free this weekend on all platforms. Those of you who play on PC, this game has built in headphone surround virtualization. Give it a try.


----------



## Rambi83

fegefeuer said:


> SBX is unbeaten as an allrounder, not a lot point in alternatives unless you want hardcore skeletal precision and go with CMSS-3D
> 
> SBX has the best balance and least quality loss in the end. CMSS is sometimes hard for those unmodded HD800s.
> 
> BF games are all about immersion, DHP also works there but the echo where it doesn't belong can sometimes make the experience a bit "unrealistic"


 
 I see, X7 it is


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

X7 isn't without some issues, but those are on the software end, and not sound quality related. You start getting used to sometimes having to unplug your headphones when turning the X7 on so that when you plug them back in, the X7 registers that a headphone is connected.


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> Overwatch is free this weekend on all platforms. Those of you who play on PC, this game has built in headphone surround virtualization. Give it a try.




Will do. Itching to try a game with a built-in headphone mode that actually works. Just have to get home from work first. QQ


----------



## lenroot77

WOW! Mr Speakers open sourced the Alpha Dogs! How frickin cool is that!


----------



## headphonesonly

I'm pretty sure BF1 also has Dolby Atmos for headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

headphonesonly said:


> I'm pretty sure BF1 also has Dolby Atmos for headphones.


 
 checked and no it doesn't.....
  
 It's only for AVRs that support Dolby Atmos. Would have been nice if they made it for headphones but nope...not sure why since Overwatch has it.


----------



## headphonesonly

rudyae86 said:


> checked and no it doesn't.....


 Weird, I watched a video by Westie called "Best HUD" on YouTube and I definitely saw the Dolby Atmos setting on there.


----------



## rudyae86

headphonesonly said:


> Weird, I watched a video by Westie called "Best HUD" on YouTube and I definitely saw the Dolby Atmos setting on there.


 
 I have the game and can confirm it's only through HDMI to an AVR that supports Dolby Atmos, only then can it be enabled. If it were DA for Headphones, I'm sure it would say that.


----------



## headphonesonly

rudyae86 said:


> I have the game and can confirm it's only through HDMI to an AVR that supports Dolby Atmos, only then can it be enabled. If it were DA for Headphones, I'm sure it would say that.


oh ok


----------



## octiceps

BF3 on PC actually had a setting called Enhanced Stereo Mode which sounded good to me. Dunno why they got rid of it in subsequent Battlefields...


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> BF3 on PC actually had a setting called Enhanced Stereo Mode which sounded good to me. Dunno why they got rid of it in subsequent Battlefields...


 
 It also had it on consoles (PS3 and Xbox 360) and I have tried it but just sounded certain sounds popped out more, almost like war tapes (although war tapes made sounds too loud nearby, especially your weapon)


----------



## Change is Good

Those of you who like interactive cinematic games like Telltale, Heavy Rain, Life is Strange, etc... may want to check out Blues and Bullets. Great game, love the noire feel to it. Shame only two episodes are out and the rest have been on standstill.


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone else have thoughts on selling/trading games here on headfi?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/826318/selling-games-in-the-classifieds#post_13021167


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Those of you who like interactive cinematic games like Telltale, Heavy Rain, Life is Strange, etc... may want to check out Blues and Bullets. Great game, love the noire feel to it. Shame only two episodes are out and the rest have been on standstill.


 

 I immensely enjoyed Heavy Rain and the first episode of Life si Strange but I despise the TellTale games. I know that these are interactive movies but these are literally movies. In their Game of Thrones series and Tales From THe Borderlands 3/4 of the time the game just plays itself. put the controller down and watch the characters just beat the game on their own.


lenroot77 said:


> Anyone else have thoughts on selling/trading games here on headfi?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/826318/selling-games-in-the-classifieds#post_13021167


 

 That's a great idea, dunno how administration would feel about it though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I only buy doawnloads. I'm not a collector of any sort. I do have games stored that I've had for over 16 years though, and I would love to not have them taking up space. Less stuff I have, the better. Downloads all the way.. Collector's Editions do nothing for me. Just crap that you'll end up storing away.


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone else have thoughts on selling/trading games here on headfi?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/826318/selling-games-in-the-classifieds#post_13021167




I'm down!


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> I immensely enjoyed Heavy Rain and the first episode of Life si Strange but I despise the TellTale games. I know that these are interactive movies but these are literally movies. In their Game of Thrones series and Tales From THe Borderlands 3/4 of the time the game just plays itself. put the controller down and watch the characters just beat the game on their own.




Haha. Yeah, Telltale games are basically interactive comics with minimal interactive decisions. I enjoy them for when I want to play a relaxing game because most movies are basically schit theses days. Back to the Future was the only TT game that required more to do, kind of like Grim Fandango as far as trying to put the pieces together to progress in the story. 

Blues and Bullets is more in line with Heavy Rain and Life is Strange. More interaction, and you look for case clues to solve. Also there are some action sequences that require actually aiming your weapon haha, not traditional 3rd person action but more interactive-like.



mad lust envy said:


> I only buy doawnloads. I'm not a collector of any sort. I do have games stored that I've had for over 16 years though, and I would love to not have them taking up space. Less stuff I have, the better. Downloads all the way.. Collector's Editions do nothing for me. Just crap that you'll end up storing away.




Only way I buy is if it's digital only or a multiplayer game I plan to share with my neph. Physical all the way. Otherwise I'd be stuck with *cough* Destiny *cough* or other games I'll never play again if I was like you.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone else have thoughts on selling/trading games here on headfi?
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/826318/selling-games-in-the-classifieds#post_13021167






yethal said:


> That's a great idea, dunno how administration would feel about it though.




I've sold games in the CD/Media section before. I've even seen watches sell on here. Don't see why they'd have a problem with video games.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Haha. Yeah, Telltale games are basically interactive comics with minimal interactive decisions. I enjoy them for when I want to play a relaxing game because most movies are basically schit theses days. Back to the Future was the only TT game that required more to do, kind of like Grim Fandango as far as trying to put the pieces together to progress in the story.
> 
> Blues and Bullets is more in line with Heavy Rain and Life is Strange. More interaction, and you look for case clues to solve. Also there are some action sequences that require actually aiming your weapon haha, not traditional 3rd person action but more interactive-like.
> Only way I buy is if it's digital only or a multiplayer game I plan to share with my neph. Physical all the way. Otherwise I'd be stuck with *cough* Destiny *cough* or other games I'll never play again if I was like you.




Still crying about destiny...


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Haha. Yeah, Telltale games are basically interactive comics with minimal interactive decisions. I enjoy them for when I want to play a relaxing game because most movies are basically schit theses days. Back to the Future was the only TT game that required more to do, kind of like Grim Fandango as far as trying to put the pieces together to progress in the story.
> 
> Blues and Bullets is more in line with Heavy Rain and Life is Strange. More interaction, and you look for case clues to solve. Also there are some action sequences that require actually aiming your weapon haha, not traditional 3rd person action but more interactive-like.
> Only way I buy is if it's digital only or a multiplayer game I plan to share with my neph. Physical all the way. Otherwise I'd be stuck with *cough* Destiny *cough* or other games I'll never play again if I was like you.


 

 I've worked on some TT games. Imagine playing the same two-hour interactive movie over and over again for a month. Oh, those were awful times.


lenroot77 said:


> Still crying about destiny...


 

 If I ever have a kid and he asks me: "Dad, what does it mean to waste potential?", I'll fire up my copy of Destiny and say "Sit down you little schiit, you're in for a story."


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Still crying about destiny...




Damn right. I'd have been better off smoking $100 worth of crack...



yethal said:


> I've worked on some TT games. Imagine playing the same two-hour interactive movie over and over again for a month. Oh, those were awful times.
> 
> 
> If I ever have a kid and he asks me: "Dad, what does it mean to waste potential?", I'll fire up my copy of Destiny and say "Sit down you little schiit, you're in for a story."




... and still would have more potential

Edit: Some people smoke crack with their leisure time, others play Destiny. Just wanted to clarify I advise people to NOT do either. Don't want people thinking I smoke crack. It's not what I meant haha.


----------



## octiceps

So far I'm not really impressed with the Dolby Atmos headphone mode in Overwatch. I can distinguish front and back just fine, but when rotating my head around a sound source, there is definitely a transition between each direction. Height cues also seem to be nonexistent.


----------



## Diamondpact

The x7 has 2.5 output impedence, the x7 le has 1 ohm and my schiit stack(modi 2 uber, magni 2 uber) has .2 output impedance.
  
 Does those have any impact on headphones whether quality or positional ques, ect? I am currently on my k7xx but plan to upgrade to the hd800 or better(for gaming and music, but gaming priority). Just background for those who don't know my current setup.
  
 Would the sound quality be impacted on either of the two headphones? or any other ones? or does the difference not matter or is barely noticeable ect.
  
 I also will be gaming on consoles that is making me lean towards the x7/x7 LE. Regarding the x7's, it looked like their amps can be upgraded if needed, what else can be upgraded? Except for the power adapter to get 100w on the x7.
  
 If i decided on one of the x7's can i use optical out from it into my schiit stack for the improved audio and lower output impedance while getting the sbx audio processed by the x7? or would that be considered encoding, which the sbx doesn't support :*(
  
 Thanks in advanced for your guys help so far!


----------



## Diamondpact

octiceps said:


> So far I'm not really impressed with the Dolby Atmos headphone mode in Overwatch. I can distinguish front and back just fine, but when rotating my head around a sound source, there is definitely a transition between each direction. Height cues also seem to be nonexistent.


 
 yay, figured out how to reply to people >.>.
  
 Agreed, dolby atmos for overwatch was unimpressive. i came to the same conclusion as you. Vertical cues were non existent, same conclusion with you regarding the front and back with transition. It stayed that way after spending hundreds of hours into overwatch.


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> The x7 has 2.5 output impedence, the x7 le has 1 ohm and my schiit stack(modi 2 uber, magni 2 uber) has .2 output impedance.
> 
> Does those have any impact on headphones whether quality or positional ques, ect? I am currently on my k7xx but plan to upgrade to the hd800 or better(for gaming and music, but gaming priority). Just background for those who don't know my current setup.
> 
> ...


 
  
 My Essence STX sound card had a 10-Ohm output impedance and I would plug 32-Ohm and 40-Ohm into it and they sounded fine.
 So with a 2.5-Ohm output impedance your still doing better then any PC sound card.
 If you get any version of the  Creative X7 series, can't see any reason for getting a stack of Schiit.


----------



## Diamondpact

purpleangel said:


> My Essence STX sound card had a 10-Ohm output impedance and I would plug 32-Ohm and 40-Ohm into it and they sounded fine.
> So with a 2.5-Ohm output impedance your still doing better then any PC sound card.
> If you get any version of the  Creative X7 series, can't see any reason for getting a stack of Schiit.


 
 oh, that's good to hear. Then I will stick with the standard x7 as its a lot cheaper and on sale to boot. Unfortunately I have the magni2 u and modi2 u stack since last year .
  
 Would the stack help in any way if i put it into the mix with the x7 through optical out or would that introduce latency, loss of quality or loss of surround features(if x7 doesnt output processed audio from optical out with sbx).
  
 If it works and no added latency then it'll be a better setup than the x7 le as ill have lower output impedance as well then.


----------



## Diamondpact

i was also wondering if there is a cheap but good replacement cable for the k7xx headphones. I have read that decent replacement cables improve left and right separation and improves audio quality, is that true or pointless? its a 3.5 to mini xlr. but the 3.5 can become a 1.5 for smaller decives


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> oh, that's good to hear. Then I will stick with the standard x7 as its a lot cheaper and on sale to boot. Unfortunately I have the Magni2 u and Modi2 u stack since last year .
> 
> Would the stack help in any way if i put it into the mix with the x7 through optical out or would that introduce latency, loss of quality or loss of surround features(if x7 doesnt output processed audio from optical out with sbx).
> 
> If it works and no added latency then it'll be a better setup than the x7 le as ill have lower output impedance as well then.


 
  
 Had to reread your first post, it took my little brain some time to realize you already had a stack of Schiit.
 You could just get a Astro Mix-amp and daisy chain the Magni amp off the Mix-amps headphone output jack.
 Get an audio switch box and you could switch between using the Modi and the Mix-amp, as the DAC.
 Use the Modi as a DAC for a computer.


----------



## Diamondpact

purpleangel said:


> Had to reread your first post, it took my little brain some time to realize you already had a stack of Schiit.
> You could just get a Astro Mix-amp and daisy chain the Magni amp off the Mix-amps headphone output jack.
> Get an audio switch box and you could switch between using the Modi and the Mix-amp, as the DAC.
> Use the Modi as a DAC for a computer.


 
 does the astro mixamp support sbx? I was thinking if the x7 is very good, then I can remove the sound card Asus xonar(dx i think or dg, dont remember, its the one with pci e not standard pci. Pretty sure its the dx) from my pc thus freeing up a pci e slot and have good audio through the x7 for both pc and console.
  
 i was wondering would the x7 be able to output audio to my stack through optical out with all the processing done to it like sbx ect?basically have the best of both worlds, or would the stack be obsolete even with the .2 impedance compared to the 2,5 on x7.
  
 Thanks in advanced.


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> does the Astro mix-amp support SBX? I was thinking if the X7 is very good, then I can remove the sound card Asus Xonar (DX i think or DG, don't remember, its the one with pci-e not standard pci. Pretty sure its the DX) from my PC thus freeing up a pci e slot and have good audio through the X7 for both PC and console.
> 
> i was wondering would the x7 be able to output audio to my stack through optical out with all the processing done to it like sbx ect?basically have the best of both worlds, or would the stack be obsolete even with the .2 impedance compared to the 2,5 on x7.
> 
> Thanks in advanced.


 
  
 The Asus Xonar DX (PCI-E)  or DGX (PCI-E) or DG (PCI) card, using it's optical output, can provide Dolby Headphone to the Modi/Magni.
 If you want SBX Headphone instead, then replace the Xonar sound card with a Sound Blaster Z card (used, $50-$60).
  
 An amplifier with an output impedance of 2.5-Ohm is really about 98% as good as having an amplifier with a 0.2-Ohm output impedance.
 About the lowest Ohm headphone you ever might buy would be about 25-Ohm (Denon) and it would work just as well with an amp with a 2.5-Ohm output impedance or .02-Ohm output impedance.
  
 But still think just replacing the Xonar card with the SB-Z card would do the job for you.


----------



## rudyae86

purpleangel said:


> The Asus Xonar DX (PCI-E)  or DGX (PCI-E) or DG (PCI) card, using it's optical output, can provide Dolby Headphone to the Modi/Magni.
> If you want SBX Headphone instead, then replace the Xonar sound card with a Sound Blaster Z card (used, $50-$60).
> 
> An amplifier with an output impedance of 2.5-Ohm is really about 98% as good as having an amplifier with a 0.2-Ohm output impedance.
> ...


 
 Sound Blaster Z was going for 60 dollars NEW a few weeks ago. Might be $50 to $60 on Amazon or newegg this Black Friday or Cyber Monday.


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> X7 isn't without some issues, but those are on the software end, and not sound quality related. You start getting used to sometimes having to unplug your headphones when turning the X7 on so that when you plug them back in, the X7 registers that a headphone is connected.


 
 Looks like a new firmware just came out on the 16th for the X7 to fix this issue. Mine was doing the same thing. Upgrading mine right now and will report back if it in fact fixes it.


----------



## Diamondpact

Sweet, if i go that route, is there a way to get sbx and dobly on console that i can output to my stack? or are the options just astro mixamp and x7 for console and ofc the Realiser A16, but i cant afford that at the moment unfortunately haha. I game on both systems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You're limited in choices in the console space for audio. You either get something solid like the X7, or have to deal with amping a headphone output like the Mixamp or stuff like the Recon. Seriously, X7 is the easiest recommendation for simplicity. I miss having wireless freedom though. Sennheiser really, REALLY needs to sell a wireless gaming headset, preferably open.

TeeReQs, thanks for letting me know about the update. I'll download it when I get home in an hour.


----------



## TeeReQs

Firmware appears to have fixed the issue. My mic wasn't working though and I realized that if you're in direct mode the mic won't work..something to keep in mind if you're having that issue. My first attempt at the update failed, but once I put it in boot loader mode in worked perfectly. To get into boot loader mode you hold the power button and plug the device into power until the power led illuminates solid blue and both ddl and sbx lights are illuminated.


----------



## Silent Xaxal

How are the DT 1770 pros for gaming?


----------



## lenroot77

Hey pc guys looking for a 200 dollar gpu... leaning towards the gtx 1060 3 gig... any thoughts?


----------



## PurpleAngel

silent xaxal said:


> How are the DT 1770 pros for gaming?


 
  
 Might try reading up and asking here.
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/776807/beyerdynamic-dt-1770-product-info-discussion-and-impressions


----------



## octiceps

lenroot77 said:


> Hey pc guys looking for a 200 dollar gpu... leaning towards the gtx 1060 3 gig... any thoughts?




I'd say an RX 470 8GB or RX 480 4GB instead, maybe even an RX 480 8GB if you can find one on Slickdeals for example or during Black Friday. 3GB really does not cut it in this day and age and you'll be VRAM limited before you're GPU performance limited in a lot of AAA titles.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Hey pc guys looking for a 200 dollar gpu... leaning towards the gtx 1060 3 gig... any thoughts?


 

 Recently upgraded my R9 280x to an MSI GTX 1060 and I've been loving it. The one I got is a bit above your budget but a killer card. After my last card I'm completely done with AMD GPUs and will only buy NVIDIA going forward. Yes they're more expensive but they've never failed on me the way all of the AMD cards I've owned have.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> Hey pc guys looking for a 200 dollar gpu... leaning towards the gtx 1060 3 gig... any thoughts?




Maybe get a used GTX 980, it still a heavy hitter against the 1060 3GB...but if you do go 1060, get the 6GB version. Also, if you can shell out $100 more sometimes there are some good deals on The Fury cards from AMD which tend to be around the $300 when on sale and perform netter than the RX480


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> Maybe get a used GTX 980, it still a heavy hitter against the 1060 3GB...but if you do go 1060, get the 6GB version. Also, if you can shell out $100 more sometimes there are some good deals on The Fury cards from AMD which tend to be around the $300 when on sale and perform netter than the RX480




I may just stretch myself for the 1060 6gig as I'd prefer to go with nividia. Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lenroot77 said:


> Hey pc guys looking for a 200 dollar gpu... leaning towards the gtx 1060 3 gig... any thoughts?




Don't do it. There are quite a few new games that pass the 3gb mark, which causes steep fps drops when hitting the memory ceiling. I'd hold out for the 6gb.

In many games it's fine, but nothing is worse than a card capable of 60fps, but get hits hard and stutters down to 25fps or so because it can't keep up from memory. The lowest I'd go is 4gb.

I'm still waiting on Kaby Lake and 1080tis. Wanna make sure I start off right. Lol. Though we'll see where I'm at in 2 months.


----------



## octiceps

Why Kaby Lake when you can get Zen. :3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, no. Nothing but bad experiences with AMD. Nvidia is stupid and overpriced, but they make good products. Zen hasn't proven itself yet.

I mean, I'll wait and see how it stacks up to KL, but pretty sure I'm sticking to team green.


----------



## lenroot77

K I've already talked myself into the 1060 6 gig card or a 1070...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you can go for 1070, damn, that is way better than the 1060, lol.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE and others are right: AVOID the 1060. 1070 and onwards, nothing else or you will regret it.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> K I've already talked myself into the 1060 6 gig card or a 1070...


 

 The question is do you need a 1070? I game at 2560x1080 and I'm getting 60 fps without so much as a modestly heavy breath from my 1060. If you're not gaming at 4k or going full-on VR, is there a need to spend the extra $100? As a bonus my MSI is quiet. That's why I went with that specific MSI model. Now I want to get a quieter CPU cooler to make my PC even quieter. The 212 EVO keeps it cool but it's far from silent.
  


fegefeuer said:


> MLE and others are right: AVOID the 1060. 1070 and onwards, nothing else or you will regret it.


 

 Haven't regretted a second of my purchase.


----------



## shankly1985

axelcloris said:


> The question is do you need a 1070? I game at 2560x1080 and I'm getting 60 fps without so much as a modestly heavy breath from my 1060. If you're not gaming at 4k or going full-on VR, is there a need to spend the extra $100? As a bonus my MSI is quiet. That's why I went with that specific MSI model. Now I want to get a quieter CPU cooler to make my PC even quieter. The 212 EVO keeps it cool but it's far from silent.
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't regretted a second of my purchase.




What about 1440p or 144hz you will need high end GPUs then


----------



## lenroot77

That's sort of my thought the 1070 may be overkill since it may not provide the FULL 4K experience. And the 1060 will run pretty much anything maxed out at 1080p. My pc is hooked up to a TV so im not sure 1440 is an option to consider? Kind of new to this computer stuff.


----------



## AxelCloris

shankly1985 said:


> What about 1440p or 144hz you will need high end GPUs then


 

 I love my LG 21:9 monitor and it can do neither of those. Some day my monitor will die, and when that day comes I might consider one that can do 1440p or 144Hz. Since it can't handle the added benefits there was no justifiable reason for me to go with a 1070. I'll probably get a new monitor in 2018 and grab a GTX 1270/80 at that time.
  


lenroot77 said:


> That's sort of my thought the 1070 may be overkill since it may not provide the FULL 4K experience. And the 1060 will run pretty much anything maxed out at 1080p. My pc is hooked up to a TV so im not sure 1440 is an option to consider? Kind of new to this computer stuff.


 
  
 I can't answer whether or not your TV will support 1440, but most TV's are either 720, 1080 or 2160. 1440 is typically a monitor resolution. If you're not planning to push the GPU beyond 1080p then don't get caught in a spec war with other PC builders, buy what suits your needs best.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm playing@1440p@144Hz and need all the frames I can have


----------



## Yethal

I have a 1070 in my work PC. At 4K resolution and max settings both Unreal Engine 4 and Cry Engine 3 games are in 30-40fps range.


----------



## Ljanmi

This guy claims that semi open DT 880 Pro have wider and airy soundstage comparing to open AKG K7XX, is that true?


----------



## TeeReQs

You'll never have enough frames, so get the best card you can possibly afford at the time, and definitely don't go any lower than 4gb of vram. Games are really starting to use a lot of ram. If you have plans to go 1440p or 144hz in the future, you don't want to have to buy twice!


----------



## octiceps

If you go 144Hz make sure to have beefy CPU and RAM to keep the GPU fed and prevent bottlenecking. A lot of recent AAA games like BF1 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided are very CPU-heavy and scale incredibly well last 4 threads and see large gains from Hyper-Threading (e.g. i5 vs. i7 at identical frequency). An overclocked i7-6700K and fast, low latency RAM is the bare minimum for 144Hz gaming IMO if you want to maintain that frame rate without dips. Keep in mind that CPU load is proportional to FPS, so 144 FPS will have over 2x the CPU usage as 60 FPS.


----------



## PacoTaco

ljanmi said:


> This guy claims that semi open DT 880 Pro have wider and airy soundstage comparing to open AKG K7XX, is that true?




Imaging may be better, as well as air, but not the soundstage size.


----------



## Ljanmi

pacotaco said:


> Imaging may be better, as well as air, but not the soundstage size.


 
 What that means is that FPS gaming sounds better or worse on DT 880 PRO?


----------



## mashuto

octiceps said:


> If you go 144Hz make sure to have beefy CPU and RAM to keep the GPU fed and prevent bottlenecking. A lot of recent AAA games like BF1 and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided are very CPU-heavy and scale incredibly well last 4 threads and see large gains from Hyper-Threading (e.g. i5 vs. i7 at identical frequency). An overclocked i7-6700K and fast, low latency RAM is the bare minimum for 144Hz gaming IMO if you want to maintain that frame rate without dips. Keep in mind that CPU load is proportional to FPS, so 144 FPS will have over 2x the CPU usage as 60 FPS.




I would say though that a 144hz monitor is worth it for fps games even if you can't maintain 144fps. I have noticed a big difference even though I usually only maintain 60-90fps usually (in more recent games with an oced i5 3570k and gtx 970).

Though whether it's worth it for everyone I can't say, just know that for me it has been even without top end hardware to match.


----------



## octiceps

mashuto said:


> I would say though that a 144hz monitor is worth it for fps games even if you can't maintain 144fps. I have noticed a big difference even though I usually only maintain 60-90fps usually (in more recent games with an oced i5 3570k and gtx 970).
> 
> Though whether it's worth it for everyone I can't say, just know that for me it has been even without top end hardware to match.


 
  
 That advice was geared toward people who wanna lock 144 FPS in recent games to take full advantage of their refresh rate. But yeah at 90 FPS the improvement is still very perceptible and screen tearing is less noticeable overall at high refresh rate, plus there are benefits outside of gaming. Most people who are used to 60Hz are amazed how smooth 144Hz is just manipulating windows on the desktop or moving their mouse pointer around LOL.


----------



## pervysage

octiceps said:


> That advice was geared toward people who wanna lock 144 FPS in recent games to take full advantage of their refresh rate. But yeah at 90 FPS the improvement is still very perceptible and screen tearing is less noticeable overall at high refresh rate, plus there are benefits outside of gaming. Most people who are used to 60Hz are amazed how smooth 144Hz is just manipulating windows on the desktop or moving their mouse pointer around LOL.




Lol, I had the same experience. The mouse pointer literally looks like it's floating on the surface of the screen. Almost a 3D effect.


----------



## la1n

Hi All,
 I'm looking to get a pair of closed headphones to compliment my ATH AD700X.
 What's a good competitive pair on par with that performance?
 In the first post i couldn't search by closed or open, so sorry if this has been asked a thousand times already..
 Price range around $150-$300. Not looking at getting something fun, just purely for competitive.
  
 The reason i need a pair of closed is because i'm soon gonna be sharing the office with my girlfriend and i just know it's gonna become an annoyance with a pair of open (my ad700x).


----------



## headphonesonly

la1n said:


> Hi All,
> I'm looking to get a pair of closed headphones to compliment my ATH AD700X.
> What's a good competitive pair on par with that performance?
> In the first post i couldn't search by closed or open, so sorry if this has been asked a thousand times already..
> ...


This guy has a list of good closed headphones for gaming.https://m.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/57ml11/guide_gaming_headphones_mics/


----------



## lenroot77




----------



## Mad Lust Envy

1060 might do 1080p/60 now, but rest assured that by this timne next year, you're gonna be having problems keeping 60 at Ultra.

1070 would give you a much longer lifespan at 1080p, and 1440p.

But since I wanna game at 4K, it's why I'm waiting on the 1080TI. Even then the Titan X (P) is not hitting 60 stable unless you dial down some settings.

Personally, I'd probably get a 1060 for now and play at 1080p until the next generation after the 1080TI. 1080p looks damn good on 4K screens.

There is always the option to set a custom resolution for 4K and make it an ultrawide 3840x1600. Considerably less performance requirement than 4K, and better than 1440p, with no scaling needed. Yeah, you'll have black bars, but when you have an OLED or full array local dimming, the bars should be a complete non issue, and you get an amazing ultrawide presentation.



So let's say you have a 1070/1080/Titan X/1080TI

Set a custom resolution of 3840x1600 (which is the rough equivalent of ultrawide, but closer to actual cinema ratio), and you'll have a movie-like gaming experience. This helps if you're not getting quite 60fps on a certain game. The reduced pixel count from the horizontal bars may push you to 60fps.

Funny how LG is selling a 3840x1600 monitor now. You can just as easily have bought a 4k monitor and done it yourself. Sure, aesthetically, no black bars looks better, but in a dark room, and focusing on the actual games, it won't make a difference. It will still yield the same result.

If you have a 2560x1440 screen, try setting custom res to 2560x1080, and you'll have a 1080p ultrawide on your 1440p monitor, helpful if you can't get 60fps on 1440p.

Those with 1080p screens can set to 1920x810, essentially being a 810p ultrawide. I feel that's too low a res however.

Note, the verical res doesn't have to be what I put. Those are numbers to maintain 21:9. You can set resolutions like 3840x1440, or 3840 x whatever number is less than the standard pixel count if you want, and it will be even MORE ultrawide, at the expense of even less pixels, and bigger black bars. Like I could put say, 1920x400 on a 1080p screen and it will show. Not ideal at all, but it's possible.


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M9IMETD/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (only FreeSync)
  
 supposedly the same panel as the LG. Doubt that price will stay and is only for preorders. Same happened to my XB271HU Gsync which I got for around 550 instead of 800+


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fegefeuer said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01M9IMETD/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (only FreeSync)
> 
> supposedly the same panel as the LG. Doubt that price will stay and is only for preorders. Same happened to my XB271HU Gsync which I got for around 550 instead of 800+




I feel Ultrawide 1600p monitors are in a bad position. You can't set 4K on them. I think it'd make much more sense to just buy a 4K monitor, and set that 3840x1600 res whenever you want the ultrawide experience. I'd need 4K for the PS4 Pro, because it doesn't accept odd resolutions like that. People with 1440p monitors are screwed, as the Pro will lock them down to 1080p. Sony should've allowed the Pro to accept a 1440p res, and just downsample from 4K.

If it's simply for looks, then I guess it's alright.

Personally, I'd just wait for 5120x2160 ultrawides to come out. Actual 4K Ultrawide.

Then again, I snagged a stupid deal on an LG C6 OLED, which will be here Saturday. 

4K, HDR, perfect blacks, I'm all in. It's slightly curved which I don't care for, but it's flat equivalent B6 has inferior processing, and inconsistent input lag.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ljanmi said:


> This guy claims that semi open DT 880 Pro have wider and airy soundstage comparing to open AKG K7XX, is that true?




My experiences with the 880 would suggest to me that due to the brighter signature, it will sound more airy and sharper, but is still a bit average in terms of soundstage and positional cues compared to the 7XX. And everyone here knows that the 880 doesn't match the AKGs in width. Width has been the AKG forte for the 700 series for years now (to the point of people calling the soundstage egg shaped). 880 is GOOD, but not bigger. Also questionable on soundstage depth, which I feel neither are perfect at, but I find it easier locating distant cues on AKGs.

Brighter headphones give off the impression of being airy, sharper, more detailed, and bigger in soundstage, but soundstage size isn't limited to bright headphones.


----------



## Ljanmi

Understand, once you start with headphones...  I used to have Beyerdynamic MMX300/Creative Titanim HD, Asus DG and now AKG K7XX/Asus STX. Would really like to test some more "gaming" headphones, maybe Fidelio X2, DT 990 PRO, HiFiMAN. Thinking also replacing STX to STX 2. ThX for advices


----------



## Roybr

Guys, I need an opinion on what headphone to get, even reading all over the internet I still can't decide.
 I'm looking for these headphones: AKG K712 Pro, HiFiMAN 400-I, Fidelio X2, DT770, DT880 and DT990.
 Looking to play games and also some rock, classical and jazz tunes. Confort and sound quality is equally important.
 Can you guys give me the two best recommendations?


----------



## TeeReQs

I dig my K7XX for gaming and that type of music.


----------



## ls13coco

I have the AKG K712 Pro and HiFiMAN 400-I on the way, can give my thoughts in the near future.


----------



## la1n

headphonesonly said:


> This guy has a list of good closed headphones for gaming.https://m.reddit.com/r/Zeos/comments/57ml11/guide_gaming_headphones_mics/


 
 Unfortunately i felt that this didn't tell me much. The way he "reviews" the headphones tells me nothing (except poorly made puns and whatnot) and while i appreciate the link i'd rather hear from someone in here 
  
  
 So i'll try again! Shameless self quote.


la1n said:


> Hi All,
> I'm looking to get a pair of closed headphones to compliment my ATH AD700X.
> What's a good competitive pair on par with that performance?
> In the first post i couldn't search by closed or open, so sorry if this has been asked a thousand times already..
> ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

DT770, also well reviewed right at the front page of this thread. EQ the bass down for competitive play, done. DT770 do have quite a good imaging for closed headphones. 32 Ohm Limited Anniversary was my favorite. Also cheap during the current worldwide black friday sales. 
  
 Alternatives:
  
 used AH-D2000


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I dont put too much stock into closed headphones, since I dont really desire or need to restrict headphones in that manner. But the few I have reviewed have generally been solid. If probably look into the DT770 32ohm variants.


----------



## PurpleAngel

roybr said:


> Guys, I need an opinion on what headphone to get, even reading all over the internet I still can't decide.
> I'm looking for these headphones: AKG K712 Pro, HiFiMAN 400-I, Fidelio X2, DT770, DT880 and DT990.
> Looking to play games and also some rock, classical and jazz tunes. Comfort and sound quality is equally important.
> Can you guys give me the two best recommendations?


 
  
 Some of the headphones you have listed are more power demanding then others.
 Might help to know what sources or DAC/amp your plugging your headphones into?
 Are you into FPS gaming?


----------



## la1n

fegefeuer said:


> DT770, also well reviewed right at the front page of this thread. EQ the bass down for competitive play, done. DT770 do have quite a good imaging for closed headphones. 32 Ohm Limited Anniversary was my favorite. Also cheap during the current worldwide black friday sales.
> 
> Alternatives:
> 
> used AH-D2000


 
 Yea i've been looking at those. I'm also considering the Audio Technica ATH-MSR7 but wanted to look at something a bit cheaper..
 Wanted some alternatives for x-mas present.
 EDIT:
 What's the difference between DT770 Pro 32Ohm and Limited Anniversary? Or are those the same? I can't find the limited in my country...
 Thanks!
  


mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, I dont put too much stock into closed headphones, since I dont really desire or need to restrict headphones in that manner. But the few I have reviewed have generally been solid. If probably look into the DT770 32ohm variants.


 
 I realized this when i went through the list more thorough and found that pretty much all where open. I first thought that maybe there where a couple of closed pair somewhere in the list but not marked as such and felt it was too much to check each and everyone of them. The DT770 and MSR7 seems solid though. I'm wary about the increased bass in the DT770 but other sources tells me it's not as extreme as i thought it would be. I realize that i won't get the same performance from a pair of closed as appose to a pair of open, but wanted some options at least!
 My apologies and thanks for the input!


----------



## Tic-Tac

Are there any audiophile-worthy WIRELESS headphones ? I would use them mostly for my PC, listening to music, watching movies and playing games of course


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

la1n said:


> Yea i've been looking at those. I'm also considering the Audio Technica ATH-MSR7 but wanted to look at something a bit cheaper..
> Wanted some alternatives for x-mas present.
> EDIT:
> What's the difference between DT770 Pro 32Ohm and Limited Anniversary? Or are those the same? I can't find the limited in my country...
> ...




The Anniversary is newer, and I'm sure they fixed the inconsistent driver variation inconsistencies of the 770s from before. I'd go for that one instead of the regular one.

People who don't think the 770 Pro 80 isn't that bass heavy are utter bassheads. Yes, it doesn't have a ton of mid bass, but sub bass is prolific, and will command the rest of the sound. I'd personally get something not so boomy, really. Having not heard the Anniverary, I dunno how much it's changed, but it seems more balanced from what I've read.


----------



## vestice

Looking to upgrade my current headset. Made the mistake of spending a good amount of money on Astro A40, not exactly that they're bad. But after a good 2 years of use if not more. I am looking to get something with a little bit more oomph.
  
 My current use is along the lines of a great ton of gaming combined with music and voice chat. So an overall good headset is what I'm looking at.
  
 I've been looking into the DT990 Pro 250 ohm version. Also the Philips Fidelio x2's.
  
 Would like to hear some opinions of what you guys think of these choices. And how they would fare compared to what I've got currently.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ljanmi

Guys quick answer pls, I recently started actually enjoying Dolby Headphone on Asus STX/AKG K7XX  so the question is - Sound BlasterX G5 is SBX any good comparing to Dolby Headphone or it is a failure? Need answer fast, plan to order today if I get a good deal.


----------



## TeeReQs

If you're enjoying DH, just keep what you have. Listen to some videos on youtube and see if the difference is worth it to you. I've been liking the SBX on the X7.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ljanmi said:


> Guys quick answer pls, I recently started actually enjoying Dolby Headphone on Asus STX/AKG K7XX  so the question is - Sound BlasterX G5 is SBX any good comparing to Dolby Headphone or it is a failure? Need answer fast, plan to order today if I get a good deal.


 
  
 Do you need the headphone surround sound for?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Blasterx G5's SBX is SBX in its worst form. Don't bother. You won't get any support either. It has been 1 year already.


----------



## Ljanmi

Well for gaming only, PC is multi purpose - listening to FLAC, watching movies and gaming(solo play mostly but still prefer immersion  ). I read in the meantime on Sond BlasterX G5 thread that ppl cant distinguish front from rear positional cues. So I guess it is a no no *even for 80$.*


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

DT880 to HD599... worth it?


----------



## LukaTCE

Hi which headphones/headset to buy for gaming and maybe mod it for TV wireless use ?
 I need good noise isolation.
 I was using your advice back by then and bought HD 598 (if u remember me  )
 Now I have HD 598 but they are open, I need closed one I see HD 598 CS are now on sale for 105€ only
 I have Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium but looking something better for gaming like Sound BlasterX G5 120€ or mixamp ?
 I guess HD 598 CS is best option I have ?

 I was looking for
 DT 770 range from 115-130€
 HyperX Cloud Revolver 90€
 A40 are 83€
 A50 are 160€ at black friday sale
 Siberia 350 or 650 120€ / 150€
 http://geizhals.eu/?cat=sphd site with good filters

 Any idea if it work converting to wireless with cheap Bluetooth Transmitter + Receiver ?
 Like this
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/2in1-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Receiver-A2DP-Stereo-Audio-Music-Adapter-/291791504410?hash=item43f021041a:g:lHQAAOSwMNxXXtco
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bluetooth-v4-0-Receiver-Audio-AUX-Hand-Free-Car-Stereo-3-5mm-Line-Jack-A2DP-UK-/172336911529?hash=item28201494a9:g:GXsAAOSw2GlXIdlC


----------



## Tic-Tac

I'm also looking for some quality sounding wireless headphones. So far, Sennheiser RS-175 seems to be the best choice but not many reviews in terms of PC gaming department.  
  
 As for wired ones : Are Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 Over-Ear good for PC usage? Gaming, movies and music?


----------



## lenroot77

Not sure is there has been much talk about the hd598 closed model. Just received these this morning and I'm very curious to check them out. From what I gather they are an amazon exclusive and may be more similar to the newer hd569?


----------



## LukaTCE

Are HD 598 CS always for 105€ at UK Amazon or just now at sale ?
 So worth changing from HD 598 ? I need good noise isolation.

 The only review I can find is here
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/825514/review-of-the-sennheiser-hd-598-cs-close-version


----------



## PurpleAngel

lukatce said:


> Are HD 598 CS always for 105€ at UK Amazon or just now at sale ?
> So worth changing from HD 598 ? I need good noise isolation.
> 
> The only review I can find is here
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/825514/review-of-the-sennheiser-hd-598-cs-close-version


 
  
 I would say to get the HD598CS (closed) headphone, before the price goes back up.
 Be keep using the HD598 for when you are not in need of noise isolation.


----------



## shuto77

lenroot77 said:


> Not sure is there has been much talk about the hd598 closed model. Just received these this morning and I'm very curious to check them out. From what I gather they are an amazon exclusive and may be more similar to the newer hd569?




Hey Buddy, let us know what you think of them.


----------



## Muldeberg

1. So I play a ton of FPS games mostly CSGO and I want the best possible sound to hear footsteps in the game. Everything else doesn't matter to me, I got other headphones for music. Also I currently don't have a soundcard in my computer, so if I need a soundcard I'll buy that too but I need to know what soundcard. Budget is 1000 dollars at max for both soundcard and headphones. Need suggestions on mic's aswell if I'm buying headphones without a mic. Any help is appreciated as I don't know too much about this. 
  
 2. Should I use virtual surround for games when using headphones?


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> Hey Buddy, let us know what you think of them.




Had about an hour with them earlier while playing tomb raider with the X7. Quick impressions are they are very open sounding and the positioning is pretty good for a closed headphone. It's been a while since since I used a pair of of dt770's but from what I recall these sound much more open. They don't feel muffled or closed in coming from a pair of k7xx's previous.

These do not have the clamp that I've experienced with the the hd558,598 or PC 360's. They are more comfortable right out of the box.

Only thing I'll say about the sound with the little headtimebuve had with them is they are substantially more bassy then the normal hd598's. It's a different signature... I think it's a different driver, as well as the closed cup and the pads are some sort of synthetic leather. (Normally velour) 

I got these for 100 bucks thru seem very solid for that price.


----------



## lenroot77

lenroot77 said:


> Had about an hour with them earlier while playing tomb raider with the X7. Quick impressions are they are very open sounding and the positioning is pretty good for a closed headphone. It's been a while since since I used a pair of of dt770's but from what I recall these sound much more open. They don't feel muffled or closed in coming from a pair of k7xx's previous.
> 
> These do not have the clamp that I've experienced with the the hd558,598 or PC 360's. They are more comfortable right out of the box.
> 
> ...




They seem to be even easier to drive than the open 598's as well,with their lower impedance and similar sensitivity.


----------



## jincuteguy

So did anyone get the new Sennheiser GSX 1000 7.1 surround sound DAC / Amp?  Most ppl who bought them from the UK are saying it's better than current Creative G5 and X7.


----------



## BetaWolf

Hey guys, does anyone have any experience with a downmixer for movies and games? Will I get positional cues with this? Planning on connecting it to something like a Magni 2. Looking for something compatible with game systems, computers, and blu-ray players.

https://goo.gl/52y5fQ

I am basically looking for something akin to the Astro Mixamp, but without the amplification stage.


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> Hey guys, does anyone have any experience with a downmixer for movies and games? Will I get positional cues with this? Planning on connecting it to something like a Magni 2. Looking for something compatible with game systems, computers, and blu-ray players.
> 
> https://goo.gl/52y5fQ
> 
> I am basically looking for something akin to the Astro Mixamp, but without the amplification stage.


 
 I doubt the down-mixer provides any positional audio.
  
 For a computer, just get an Asus Xonar DG or DGX or D1 or DX sound card, plug the Magni into the card.
 (Xonar DX would be my preferred pick).
  
 For a gaming console, get the Mix-amp, plug Magni into Mix-amp.
 Mix-amp might also work with some Blu-ray players


----------



## BetaWolf

purpleangel said:


> I doubt the down-mixer provides any positional audio.
> 
> For a computer, just get an Asus Xonar DG or DGX or D1 or DX sound card, plug the Magni into the card.
> (Xonar DX would be my preferred pick).
> ...



If I went that route, I'd get a Sound Blaster Z > Modi 2 Uber > Magni 2. From what I understand, the Creative cards encode SBX into PCM in realtime.


----------



## Diamondpact

I couldnt resist. I decided to get the Creative x7 LE. It's on the way.
  
 Any good upgrade micro usb cables you guys recommend? Or will there be no need for a gold plated usb from ps4/pc to the x7 as the one supplied will be sufficient?
  
 Any good 3.5 mm 5.1 analog cables for my logitech z906 speakers? I definitely have to replace them. I was thinking of using 3 aux cables for 5.1 haha. Anyone recommends a good quality cable that doesn't break the bank? 
 I was looking at something like the one below. If you guys know a better build/audio quality cable please give me them suggestions . 
 https://www.amazon.ca/Cable-Matters-2-Pack-Plated-Stereo/dp/B00ESM433G/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1480237624&sr=8-11&keywords=3.5+mm+gold+plated+audio+cable
  
 I was thinking of plugging my z906 speaker system into the X7 LE. I know the ps4 only emits 2.0 audio on ps4, if i use optical out from ps4 into the x7, would the analog output then be 5.1 into my z906? or should I just use optical out directly into my z906 from ps4? 
  
 Would the usb from pc to x7 allow it to output 5.1 or would that also be 2.0 like the ps4?


----------



## Diamondpact

betawolf said:


> If I went that route, I'd get a Sound Blaster Z > Modi 2 Uber > Magni 2. From what I understand, the Creative cards encode SBX into LOCK in realtime.


 
 what do u mean by into lock in realtime? Im a noob to some terms


----------



## Diamondpact

What do you guy think my ideal setup will be for my headphones and z906 system? I have the x7 which will work for both ps4 and pc. 
  
 I have modi2 uber and magni 2 uber but will only work well on pc and a asus dx in the pc. Would this setup be better than the x7? If yes, then that'll mean x7 only for consoles. Or will x7 outplay the dx to the uber stack combo? 
  
 Thanks in advanced


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Hi all - back for some more PS4 audio advice please - have spent a few weeks with the Phillips SHP9500/VModa Boom Pro combination and also the Sennheiser GSP300 gaming headset.  Also tried both with the Mixamp Pro and the Mixamp TR - (had a few issues with the TR).
  
 End result is I prefer both headphones receiving just stereo sound than I do the virtual surround of the Mixamp (and the poorer voice quality the mixamp seems to offer!).   The GSP300 in particular are so easy to power that even the controller gets decent volume out of them.  
  
 I still feel I'm missing out just routing audio via the pad though so wanted to investigate good value options for improving the stereo audio - external DAC/AMP??.  My question revolves around suitable good value equipment and the cabling setup.  I game in the lounge and really don't want and overly complication set up each time I get some game time.  I'm almost thinking of just going down the Lucidsound LS30 Stereo Wireless headset instead but want to explore this option for the better audio quality first.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Diamondpact

whitehartmart said:


> Hi all - back for some more PS4 audio advice please - have spent a few weeks with the Phillips SHP9500/VModa Boom Pro combination and also the Sennheiser GSP300 gaming headset.  Also tried both with the Mixamp Pro and the Mixamp TR - (had a few issues with the TR).
> 
> End result is I prefer both headphones receiving just stereo sound than I do the virtual surround of the Mixamp (and the poorer voice quality the mixamp seems to offer!).   The GSP300 in particular are so easy to power that even the controller gets decent volume out of them.
> 
> ...


 
 If your not into the virtual surround and prefer the stereo, you can look into the schiit external amp/dacs. The sound quality is awesome. And they dont break the bank. Some people prefer the o2 sound signature and some prefer the schiit signature depends on you . Both are excellent but just a different signature/taste.  
 http://schiit.com/products
 on that page you can see the specs of the modi 2 uber and magni 2 uber. I cant speak for many other brands. I have the asus xonar dx sound card, astro a50 with its astro wireless transmitter(similiar to mixamp in a way) and the schiit stack and the schiit stack sounded amazing with my headphones! You can also look into the creative x7 as its all in one and clean solution(something your looking for . Its also on sale to boot! You can also enable surround or disable it and play in direct mode and see which you prefer and can adjust to your liking) on paper its a little worse sound quality than the schiit stack from what i think, but its alot more convenient and more feature packed. Dont get me wrong though, the sound quality will still be awesome and will leave the astro mixamp in the dust
  
 Someone correct me if im wrong, I dont want to give possible inaccurate advice as its an opinion from what i've experienced so far*


----------



## WhiteHartMart

diamondpact said:


> If your not into the virtual surround and prefer the stereo, you can look into the schiit external amp/dacs. The sound quality is awesome. And they dont break the bank. Some people prefer the o2 sound signature and some prefer the schiit signature depends on you . Both are excellent but just a different signature/taste.
> http://schiit.com/products
> on that page you can see the specs of the modi 2 uber and magni 2 uber. I cant speak for many other brands. I have the asus xonar dx sound card, astro a50 with its astro wireless transmitter(similiar to mixamp in a way) and the schiit stack and the schiit stack sounded amazing with my headphones! You can also look into the creative x7 as its all in one and clean solution(something your looking for . Its also on sale to boot! You can also enable surround or disable it and play in direct mode and see which you prefer and can adjust to your liking) on paper its a little worse sound quality than the schiit stack from what i think, but its alot more convenient and more feature packed. Dont get me wrong though, the sound quality will still be awesome and will leave the astro mixamp in the dust
> 
> Someone correct me if im wrong, I dont want to give possible inaccurate advice as its an opinion from what i've experienced so far*


 
  
 Thank you - what happens re mic/voice comms when using those options - VModa/Phillips has a single 3.5mm connection, while the GSP300 have separate Mic/Audio jacks - I'm concerned voice chat won't get transmitted using the Schiit and everything I've read regarding voice via the X7 seems complicated and inconclusive?


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> If I went that route, I'd get a Sound Blaster Z > Modi 2 Uber > Magni 2. From what I understand, the Creative cards encode SBX into PCM in realtime.


 
  
 Yea, the Creative Z series cards can send SBX Headphone surround sound thru optical.
 Xonar DX sends Dolby Headphone surround sound thru optical


----------



## BetaWolf

purpleangel said:


> I doubt the down-mixer provides any positional audio.



On this again, are you sure? If so, what is the point of the Sound Blaster X7 being able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1?


----------



## pack21

lenroot77 said:


> They seem to be even easier to drive than the open 598's as well,with their lower impedance and similar sensitivity.




I have them and can't complain, obviously I like more playing BF with my open MA900 or K702, but since I've had people in the room making noise, I really like using HD598Cs for that reason. Having less ambient noise i improved my results.


----------



## LukaTCE

HD 598 CS sales are over (says till 27th at midnight/ and it's still 27th lol). So what to buy now ?
 How are HD 598 SC compared to DT 770 ? I don't like heavy bass or any bass at all, similar to HD 598 neutral.
  
 A40 are 90€
 HyperX Revolver is 90€
 A50 are 180€ at sale

 I would change sound card because it uses old software and can't set any preference like FPS so I could hear footsteps louder.
 Is there any solution with 7.1 USB sound cards like from Creative, steelseries or similar
 Sound BlasterX G1 is 40€ just USB sound card
 Is there any software I can use to improve game profiles like louder footstep for FPS mode. Original Creative one is useless for this settings. BlasterX Acoustic Engine Lite would work ?
  
 Seems sale is over. It says black friday sale is till 27th at midnight. Is there any way I can contact Amazon support/help ?
 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sennheiser-HD-598-Cs-Around-Ear/dp/B01JP436TS/ref=zg_bs_310193011_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=41B81WPNWYHZDFE885NY


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> I feel Ultrawide 1600p monitors are in a bad position. You can't set 4K on them. I think it'd make much more sense to just buy a 4K monitor, and set that 3840x1600 res whenever you want the ultrawide experience. I'd need 4K for the PS4 Pro, because it doesn't accept odd resolutions like that. People with 1440p monitors are screwed, as the Pro will lock them down to 1080p. Sony should've allowed the Pro to accept a 1440p res, and just downsample from 4K.
> 
> If it's simply for looks, then I guess it's alright.
> 
> ...


how's the tv?


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> On this again, are you sure? If so, what is the point of the Sound Blaster X7 being able to decode Dolby Digital 5.1?


 
  
 If a product could create headphone surround sound, do you not think they would list it in the product description?
 How does the product tell if it's being used with stereo speakers or with headphones? It can't
 I believe creating headphone surround sound is more complicated then simple down-mixing.
  
 There are many sub-sections of Dolby, one of them being DDL (Dolby Digital Live).
 Creative does not pay Dolby for all the many features of Dolby, just DDL is needed.
 Which is what is needed to encode (compress) and decode (un-compress) up to 6-channels of digital audio, for passing thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial).
  
 So the Creative X7 needs to decode (un-compress) the digital audio coming out of the optical cable.
 So the digital audio is decoded to PCM digital audio, which the X7 can do with as it please, like converting it into SBX Headphone surround sound


----------



## xela3

I recently got the audeze el-8s open from a friend and the clamp is a bit to much for me, is there another headphone around the $400 mark that you guys could recommend? I was thinking about getting the shure 1840s.


----------



## Tic-Tac

I would be so great if someone can include gaming Earbuds or Earphones tests here.


----------



## BetaWolf

purpleangel said:


> If a product could create headphone surround sound, do you not think they would list it in the product description?
> How does the product tell if it's being used with stereo speakers or with headphones? It can't
> I believe creating headphone surround sound is more complicated then simple down-mixing.
> 
> ...




I'm asking, what's the point of the X7 having support for something that it can't use besides converting it into basic stereo? Is there any situation where a 2.0 audio track wouldn't be available?

It'd be like having a Blu-Ray player that supported Blu-Ray 3D disks, but the only thing it could do would be to convert it into 2D, all the while every 3D movie already has the 2D version packed into it.

Makes no sense. Unless I'm missing something here.


----------



## Fegefeuer

it's not converting it to basic stereo but binaural stereo based on a fixed 5.1/7.1 speaker room HRTF.
  
 hard panning left/right vs. flat 360° surround for better immersion, positioning and localizing sounds. That's the premise of this thread.


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> I'm asking, what's the point of the X7 having support for something that it can't use besides converting it into basic stereo? Is there any situation where a 2.0 audio track wouldn't be available?
> 
> It'd be like having a Blu-Ray player that supported Blu-Ray 3D disks, but the only thing it could do would be to convert it into 2D, all the while every 3D movie already has the 2D version packed into it.
> 
> Makes no sense. Unless I'm missing something here.


 
  
 Not sure where basic stereo and 2.0 tracks came into the conversation, about the X7?
  
 Lets say some source device sends 6-channels (5.1) of encoded (Dolby compressed) digital audio thru an optical cable into the X7.
 The X7 then uses it's DDL feature to convert the 6-channels of encoded (compressed) audio into 6-channels of PCM (un-compressed) audio,
 Then the X7 takes the 6-channel of PCM digital audio and converts it into 2-channel of SBX Headphone surround sound, which it sends to the headphones (headphones are really a just tiny 2.0 speaker setup).
  
 Modern Blu-ray disks (3D or 2D) will normally send video (and audio) thru HDMI (lots of bandwidth).
 HDMI can carry up to 8-channel of 24-bit/192K of PCM audio.
  
 S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) can carry 2-channels of PCM (24-bit/96k or 24bit/192K) of digital audio or up to 6-channel of encoded (compressed) 24-bit/48K of digital audio.
  
 BetaWolf, just did some rereading of some of your earlier posts.
 I think your equating fancy marketing terms (Dolby Digital 5.1) to what features are truly included in a product.
 Some manufacturer pay a small royalty to Dolby to use one of Dolby's many audio features, but the manufacturer gets to label their product Dolby Digital 5.1.
 So both the down-mixing DAC maker and the Creative get to label their products Dolby Digital 5.1, but may not really using the exact same Dolby features (but maybe very related).
  
 I could make a wild guess the down-mixing device is just taking the main 2.0 Front Speaker channels and spicing up the audio with bits from the other four channels (center, sub, right and left rears).
 Where as the X7 has all 6-channel fully separated and ready to be converted into SBX headphone surround sound


----------



## Diamondpact

purpleangel said:


> Not sure where basic stereo and 2.0 tracks came into the conversation, about the X7?
> 
> Lets say some source device sends 6-channels (5.1) of encoded (Dolby compressed) digital audio thru an optical cable into the X7.
> The X7 then uses it's DDL feature to convert the 6-channels of encoded (compressed) audio into 6-channels of PCM (un-compressed) audio,
> ...


 
 That's what I was thinking. Some of the things I've read earlier scared me for a moment about my x7 le purchase haha. Thanks for the clarification . 
  
 A quick question, what do you think about the audio cables that come with the x7? will they be sufficient or would upgrading them provide tangible results? Also know of any good, but cheap 3.5 mm male to male cables? Cheers


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> That's what I was thinking. Some of the things I've read earlier scared me for a moment about my x7 le purchase haha. Thanks for the clarification .
> 
> A quick question, what do you think about the audio cables that come with the x7? will they be sufficient or would upgrading them provide tangible results? Also know of any good, but cheap 3.5 mm male to male cables? Cheers


 
  
 I usually try to by cables from Monoprice.
 Some of their cables are listed as "Premium", but only cost av little more then regular cables.
 Order a bunch of cables and shipping is usually still fairly low.


----------



## Diamondpact

purpleangel said:


> I usually try to by cables from Monoprice.
> Some of their cables are listed as "Premium", but only cost av little more then regular cables.
> Order a bunch of cables and shipping is usually still fairly low.


 
 cheers, ill hope to find monoprice on amazon, haven't seen them recently


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

themrmikemcd said:


> how's the tv?




Once you go black you'll never go back, as they say. As impressive as the store demos are for the OLEDs, taking it home and testing it with your own stuff is a revelation. The contrast blows the hell out of everything I've seen today. In black screens, the TV looks like it's off. The colors...everything is phenomenal.

It's not perfect, as I see some black crush in the lowest levels of shadow detail, which fluctuate depending on brightness of the overall image. This is one area that needs improvement. Some instances 0-5 blacks (out of 0-255 in the greyscale) will either look fine, or will be all completely black. I never had any other TV have that issue, so yeah. Overall I'll take a little black crush considering how pretty much everything else is a 10 out of 10. It's beautiful.

Went to the store with the stepfather to get him a 65" Samsung KS8500, and as nice as it is, it pales in comparison to the OLED. Still, for LCD, its really fantastic as well.

I'll probably be spending all day tomorrow tweaking both displays, since I haven't had much time to mess with them outside of some easier calibrations.

I had a stuck pixel on my Oled, and funny enough, the next day, it was completely fine. Lol.

Also, my stepfather gave me some old Sony bookshelf speakers that were stored away, and they are pretty beastly. Saved me the hassle of shopping for some, though I do think the OLED has some good internal TV speakers for what it's worth. I initially though they were terrible, but all I had to do was toggle on the surround option on the TV. For some reason, it sounds like muffled garbage with it disabled. It was like a new set of internal TV speakers after turning that on. Still, the Sony speakers are definitely a step up.


----------



## PurpleAngel

diamondpact said:


> cheers, ill hope to find monoprice on amazon, haven't seen them recently


 
  
 Monoprice has their own website.


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> Once you go black you'll never go back, as they say. As impressive as the store demos are for the OLEDs, taking it home and testing it with your own stuff is a revelation. The contrast blows the hell out of everything I've seen today. In black screens, the TV looks like it's off. The colors...everything is phenomenal.
> 
> It's not perfect, as I see some black crush in the lowest levels of shadow detail, which fluctuate depending on brightness of the overall image. This is one area that needs improvement. Some instances 0-5 blacks (out of 0-255 in the greyscale) will either look fine, or will be all completely black. I never had any other TV have that issue, so yeah. Overall I'll take a little black crush considering how pretty much everything else is a 10 out of 10. It's beautiful.
> 
> ...


Nice dude. I'm so jealous. My sony bravia 55x810c is a nice 4K tv. But it doesnt have HDR or the trimilious color thing. Those OLEDSs look great in the store thats for sure.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really like the 810c. It was a main contender for me about half a year ago, but I wanted smaller and went with the 830c at the time, but man, the IPS panel on the 830c was so awful and washed out. The video processing and upscaling was perfect though. The 810c would've been perfect if I wanted 55" back then. I didn't have much interest in HDR, and the 810c had a VA panel which was ideal.

In the end, all my plans flew out the window and I ended up with a 55" anyways, and I started getting invested in HDR. So I guess buying the 810c back then probably would've left me sour. But not mad. It's the best bang for buck TV without HDR.


----------



## TeeReQs

whitehartmart said:


> Thank you - what happens re mic/voice comms when using those options - VModa/Phillips has a single 3.5mm connection, while the GSP300 have separate Mic/Audio jacks - I'm concerned voice chat won't get transmitted using the Schiit and everything I've read regarding voice via the X7 seems complicated and inconclusive?


 
 Voice chat on the X7 for PS4 is really simple as long as you have the bluetooth dongle (Creative BT-W2 or similar). You just plug headphones and mic into the X7 like you would on PC. Xbox One is where the voice chat becomes a bit of a wire mess, but the ability is there. There's some really good reference images on the front page and throughout this thread on how to hook everything up.
  
 Here's the post:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added/33825#post_12251459


----------



## Yethal

xela3 said:


> I recently got the audeze el-8s open from a friend and the clamp is a bit to much for me, is there another headphone around the $400 mark that you guys could recommend? I was thinking about getting the shure 1840s.


 

 Have them for six months now. You need to ask yourself, what is more important, soundstage or bass. If it's the soundstage then go buy them because its fenomenal. If its bass then maybe look for something else because these cans are rather bass light. You might want to pair them with the SRH1540 pads which add more bass at the cost of mids and soundstage.


----------



## xela3

yethal said:


> Have them for six months now. You need to ask yourself, what is more important, soundstage or bass. If it's the soundstage then go buy them because its fenomenal. If its bass then maybe look for something else because these cans are rather bass light. You might want to pair them with the SRH1540 pads which add more bass at the cost of mids and soundstage.




Thanks, I've used the akg k7xx and the had 598 in the past and really liked both. Overall do you think the hd600/650 or shures would be better for the price.


----------



## Yethal

xela3 said:


> Thanks, I've used the akg k7xx and the had 598 in the past and really liked both. Overall do you think the hd600/650 or shures would be better for the price.


 

 If You liked the 598 then You're gonna love the Shures, very similar sound signature. As for the HD650 it's kinda difficult to compare those two since the Massdrop version (HD6XX) goes for 200$.


----------



## xela3

yethal said:


> If You liked the 598 then You're gonna love the Shures, very similar sound signature. As for the HD650 it's kinda difficult to compare those two since the Massdrop version (HD6XX) goes for 200$.




I saw on amazon the hd600 goes for about $200 used while the shures are a bit over $400


----------



## Yethal

xela3 said:


> I saw on amazon the hd600 goes for about $200 used while the shures are a bit over $400



That settles it as far as the price goes.


----------



## xela3

yethal said:


> That settles it as far as the price goes.




Alright thanks for the advice hd600 it is I suppose.


----------



## Yethal

xela3 said:


> Alright thanks for the advice hd600 it is I suppose.



Don't get me wrong, 1840 are great headphones. I'm really happy with mine and I have no problem recommending them. But we can't skip over the 200+ usd price difference.


----------



## BetaWolf

purpleangel said:


> Not sure where basic stereo and 2.0 tracks came into the conversation, about the X7?
> 
> Lets say some source device sends 6-channels (5.1) of encoded (Dolby compressed) digital audio thru an optical cable into the X7.
> The X7 then uses it's DDL feature to convert the 6-channels of encoded (compressed) audio into 6-channels of PCM (un-compressed) audio,
> ...




Just want to say thanks for this detailed, thought out reply. I was confused on so many things. I was hoping I could get something like a discrete DAC and audio processor to encode PCM 7.1 or 5.1 into a headphone surround technology, then send it to an amp via line out. The Wii U has 5.1, but not Dolby. Shame nothing like that exists.

I still may get something like that for PC though. Thanks again.


----------



## Yethal

betawolf said:


> Just want to say thanks for this detailed, thought out reply. I was confused on so many things. I was hoping I could get something like a discrete DAC and audio processor to encode PCM 7.1 or 5.1 into a headphone surround technology, then send it to an amp via line out. The Wii U has 5.1, but not Dolby. Shame nothing like that exists.
> 
> I still may get something like that for PC though. Thanks again.



Smyth Realizer and Tritton Katana operate on raw lpcm stream so should work with Wii U.


----------



## BetaWolf

Okay, two more questions. Is there a good HDTV receiver that is economical that people recommend that performs virtual surround?

And does virtual 7.1 give any better accuracy than virtual 5.1?


----------



## Yethal

betawolf said:


> Okay, two more questions. Is there a good HDTV receiver that is economical that people recommend that performs virtual surround?
> 
> And does virtual 7.1 give any better accuracy than virtual 5.1?



There is an entire thread here somewhere dedicated to Dolby Headphone on Marantz receivers. As for the 5.1 vs 7.1 difference there is none.


----------



## Vader2k

betawolf said:


> Okay, two more questions. Is there a good HDTV receiver that is economical that people recommend that performs virtual surround?
> 
> And does virtual 7.1 give any better accuracy than virtual 5.1?


 
  
 Yeah, I use an older Marantz receiver (SR6005) that outputs Dolby Headphone and it works really well.  As Yethal mentioned, I put together a list of all the models I could find that had DH processing, which you can read here.


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> Okay, two more questions. Is there a good HDTV receiver that is economical that people recommend that performs virtual surround?
> 
> And does virtual 7.1 give any better accuracy than virtual 5.1?


 
  
 Chances are whatever box you use for TV (Comcast, Direct TV, Wave, etc) has the opinion of outputting surround sound.
 I doubt your TV provider sends more then 6-channels (5.1) digital audio, no 8-channel (7.1).


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> I really like the 810c. It was a main contender for me about half a year ago, but I wanted smaller and went with the 830c at the time, but man, the IPS panel on the 830c was so awful and washed out. The video processing and upscaling was perfect though. The 810c would've been perfect if I wanted 55" back then. I didn't have much interest in HDR, and the 810c had a VA panel which was ideal.
> 
> In the end, all my plans flew out the window and I ended up with a 55" anyways, and I started getting invested in HDR. So I guess buying the 810c back then probably would've left me sour. But not mad. It's the best bang for buck TV without HDR.


Just as a Tv the 810c is awesome! I cant quite get the contrast and or sharpness just right and i feel like i am more often than not getting fuzz or over saturated little artifacts on solid colors in videogames. Blurays look fantastic and clear, but with gaming I seem to have some kind of grain in solid colored or bright scenes. Might be the games themselves? Hard to explain. Streaming on netflix is hit or miss. But I know that is most likely the streaming or source material. I need to buy a calibration CD.

I dont notice lag at all on this tv in non gaming modes. I hate the colors and display in game mode. Im all about the emersion with gaming and dont care about lag time. I often game in standard or custom mode and try to tweak settings manually.


----------



## Change is Good

Question for mister Mud Envious Licious:

I'm assuming you bought this new CoD legacy edition as a digital download. Does IW need to remain installed to play MWR (like the disc version needing to be inserted)? If I see it on sale in the PS Store again before the latter is released separately I want to pick it up if so. I won't mind playing IW's story then deleting afterwards. I'd keep it downloaded but both games will take up too much HD space on my PS4. Doubt I'll ever touch that one's multiplayer (didn't enjoy the beta) so knowing I can delete it and still play MWR online is important. 

Gracias my friend.


----------



## TeeReQs

@Change is Good I think you can install MWR separately.


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> @Change is Good
> I think you can install MWR separately. They are two separate installs.




Yeah, I'm aware of that much. I just need confirmation on if (digital version) IW needs to remain installed as well to play the separate MW download.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of that much. I just need confirmation on if (digital version) IW needs to remain installed as well to play the separate MW download.


 
 I have the digital version and installed MWR first and played that before IW was installed, so I think you can. I hear ya on not having enough space though. These game files are huge now!


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> I have the digital version and installed MWR first and played that before IW was installed, so I think you can. I hear ya on not having enough space though. These game files are huge now!




Good to hear. Yeah man, most high budget games are 50gb at least nowadays. Ay caramba :/ 

Do let me know if you can still play MW after (if) you delete IW. Muchas appreciated mi amigo.


----------



## TeeReQs

Will do!
  
 Now onto headphones..
  
 Over the holiday weekend, I spent a couple days modifying my AD700X's. I've seen a ton of people do a removable boom mic or even just a removable cable on the original AD700, but haven't really seen much with the newer model. About halfway through I realized it would have been much easier and cleaner to just do a removable cord mod, and get a V Moda Boom Mic, but the hole was already drilled for the mic jack, so I ended up using an old mic from a Turtle Beach HPX. The actual frame is a little thinner on the X than the original which required some planning on what jacks could be used, and some dremeling was required to get everything buttoned back up. I have a lot more photos, and might post up a separate thread detailing the process, but here's a few _finished _shots for now.  This was my first time attempting to make my own cable, let alone mod a headset. I didn't have the proper heat shrink for the plugs, nor a hot knife so the sleeving could have been better..but overall I think it came out nice.


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> Will do!
> 
> Now onto headphones..
> 
> Over the holiday weekend, I spent a couple days modifying my AD700X's. I've seen a ton of people do a removable boom mic or even just a removable cable on the original AD700, but haven't really seen much with the newer model. About halfway through I realized it would have been much easier and cleaner to just do a removable cord mod, and get a V Moda Boom Mic, but the hole was already drilled for the mic jack, so I ended up using an old mic from a Turtle Beach HPX. The actual frame is a little thinner on the X than the original which required some planning on what jacks could be used, and some dremeling was required to get everything buttoned back up. I have a lot more photos, and might post up a separate thread detailing the process, but here's a few _finished _shots for now.  This was my first time attempting to make my own cable, let alone mod a headset. I didn't have the proper heat shrink for the plugs, nor a hot knife so the sleeving could have been better..but overall I think it came out nice.


 
 The sleeving could be imporved but the headphones are very sexy nonetheless. Why did you use a 4-pole minijack instead of splitting the cable into separate mic and headphone jacks?


----------



## BetaWolf

purpleangel said:


> Chances are whatever box you use for TV (Comcast, Direct TV, Wave, etc) has the opinion of outputting surround sound.
> I doubt your TV provider sends more then 6-channels (5.1) digital audio, no 8-channel (7.1).


 
 The idea is to use it for Blu-Ray and Wii U. I'm not going to be using it at all for broadcast TV.


----------



## PurpleAngel

betawolf said:


> The idea is to use it for Blu-Ray and Wii U. I'm not going to be using it at all for broadcast TV.


 
  
 Yamaha A/V  receivers come with Silent Cinema, Yamaha's headphone surround sound tech.
 Just run HDMI from the Wii and Blu-ray player.
 Find a used Yamaha receiver off Craigslist.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> The sleeving could be imporved but the headphones are very sexy nonetheless. Why did you use a 4-pole minijack instead of splitting the cable into separate mic and headphone jacks?


 
 Thank you. That was my original plan on the cable, but ended up just making a full trrs cable, and made a splitter that goes from female trrs to trs stereo and mic. This way I could still plug directly into an xbox controller or mixamp if I wanted to. I'll probably end up making a new cable with a built in y eventually though. Sold my mixamp today, and everything I have uses the separate cables. This was my first attempt, so the next one will be better.


----------



## pack21

I have played over the months with my Sony MA900 due freshness of their cups, now with the winter, last night was playing BF1 with my AKG K702 + X7 and a smile took over my face, X7 + K702 is an impressive combo, I'm now looking forward to getting home tonight to play BF1 with them.


----------



## Starburp701

axelcloris said:


> Here's an old photo of how I mounted my ModMic to the Q701. I also braided the stock cable to make it shorter and when braiding I also braided in the ModMic cable so that they were always together. Worked like a champ and honestly I kinda miss the old girl.




Wowzers. I literally haven't been on this thread in months and just unbranded the modmic off my green q701's 5 minutes before I clicked on an email link that brought me right here. Whoaaa


----------



## Audix

Saw this list on top 8 Corsair headsets


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Question for mister Mud Envious Licious:
> 
> I'm assuming you bought this new CoD legacy edition as a digital download. Does IW need to remain installed to play MWR (like the disc version needing to be inserted)? If I see it on sale in the PS Store again before the latter is released separately I want to pick it up if so. I won't mind playing IW's story then deleting afterwards. I'd keep it downloaded but both games will take up too much HD space on my PS4. Doubt I'll ever touch that one's multiplayer (didn't enjoy the beta) so knowing I can delete it and still play MWR online is important.
> 
> Gracias my friend.




They are separate installs. However, they do have an option in the games to launch the other. Whether they'll allow MWR to be played without IW in your system, I wouldn't know.

Here's the funny thing: I think Infinite Warfare is the best CoD in years, since MW2, personally. It's easily the best campaign in recent memory, and the multiplayer feels right.

I'm having more fun with it than MWR. Though, that's probably because people seem to have turned MWR into 99% sniping and corner camping. It was never this bad back in CoD4. IW has much more variety, and isn't so sniper friendly.

So yeah, I'm quite disappointed by MWR (though I did get all trophies in the campaign...Mile High Club on Veteran kicked my ass for a few days until I realized I should've been picking up a P90, then it took me about 30 minutes). Also, due to all the post processing, it's actually HARDER to see enemies from far away compared to the original. Some maps are really hazy at a distance. Oh let's not forget the worst part: There is a LOT of actual cheating going on. Straight up aim bots. Was in a match getting no scoped 360'd from stupid lengths. I mean like 5 in a row. It's hard to play a game that a community ruins at every attempt.

Surprisingly, loving IW, though I mainly stick to Gun Game. kinda hard to sit around in corners and get anything done in Gun Game, which is why I love it. You gotta move.

I'm playing other stuff now, and testing two new TVs in the house. Ratchet and Clank comes first.


----------



## Arniesb

mad lust envy said:


> They are separate installs. However, they do have an option in the games to launch the other. Whether they'll allow MWR to be played without IW in your system, I wouldn't know.
> 
> Here's the funny thing: I think Infinite Warfare is the best CoD in years, since MW2, personally. It's easily the best campaign in recent memory, and the multiplayer feels right.
> 
> ...


+1 Wholeheartedly agree, Infinite warfare is better whitout a doubt. Campaign is easily far better than MWR and any other COD, i have a hard time motivate myself to play whole Campaign of MWR. On the other hand I want to play IW campaign again. Space battles was fantastic for me, spacejets or something have that sense of speed when you control them, loved sneaky missions, many great characters especially Ethan. *******it Ethan There was some incredible looking landscapes in planets or in outer space. Things i dont like about IW Mp is some maps which are like labirints... There are way too many ways from one direction to another and its a really hard be good in those maps if you didnt know them well. Winter map was my favourite cause there wasnt many hiding spots for campers to camp. 2 things i dont like is super fast time to kill and those super camp friendly maps. MWR is pathetic in comparison, because 1. Maps are even more camp friendly, everything you se there is a camp fest. 2 you cant flank campers as easy as you can in BO3 or IW. Played MWR MP for 30 minutes and i doubt i will play it again...


----------



## Arniesb

Mad Lust do you know any good single player of 2016 for PC? Is there any good horror game which was released this year? Still waiting another masterpiece like Alien Isolation.


----------



## kellte2

arniesb said:


> Mad Lust do you know any good single player of 2016 for PC? Is there any good horror game which was released this year? Still waiting another masterpiece like Alien Isolation.




Dishonored 2? For horror, have you tried SOMA?


----------



## Arniesb

kellte2 said:


> Dishonored 2? For horror, have you tried SOMA?


Tried soma, didnt liked for some reason, didnt remember why exactly... I really liked Dishonored, but i heard Dishonored 2 have performance issues on pc regardless of settings... I readed Notebookcheck review of Dishonored 2 and they said if you want constant 50 or 60fps look elsewhere. They were saying that even most potent cards was droping to low 40s and 30s... Im really pissed about developers ****ting on pc users head. Rise of Tomn Rider is really great game for example, but performance issues is really bad in open areas like soviet installation and geothermal valley. Was waiting eagerly for quantum brake, but it also have huge issues. Is there is a game For horror? Maybe it was For Honor? I have some big list games to play like Skyrim SE, Fallout 4 DLCS, Arkham Knight DLCS, The Witcher 3 Goty. There is games to play, but i like shorter and morey story driven Like Bioshock Infinite, Alan Wake, Batman Arkham games or Horrors like Alien Isolation or Outlast. Well, thanks for suggestions.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> Here's the funny thing: I think Infinite Warfare is the best CoD in years, since MW2, personally. It's easily the best campaign in recent memory, and the multiplayer feels right.
> 
> I'm having more fun with it than MWR. Though, that's probably because people seem to have turned MWR into 99% sniping and corner camping. It was never this bad back in CoD4. IW has much more variety, and isn't so sniper friendly.
> 
> ...



Agreed, kinda learning to really hate the CoD community now. Since I played CoD4 WAAAAY PAST it's prime and well after most people had moved on, there was a phase where you couldn't play a game without someone using aimbots, sometimes straight up invincibility, and even weirder mods where everyone in the game is infected and have crazy high jumps or get a negative 999999 kills added to their career score. Pretty awful. Plus, most of the games that came after used the same game engine, so it was super easy for hackers to port their cheats over to newer games. At some point though... I don't know if there was a banhammer strike or the cheaters just got bored griefing a game that old, but the hacks mostly disappeared, and life was beautiful again!

Playing BO3 again after a hiatus (trying to beat the campaign again and finally reached the 2nd to last level), I'm having a hard time finding games without aimbot-equipped players. It's easy to see in the killcams: good aim looks one way, but sometimes you see a direct snapping aim that also compemates for recoil which simply isn't possible with thumbsticks. I've been seeing entire clan teams of people with aim bots! It's funny for maybe one round to watch people with aimbots on different teams try to best eachother, I can just imagine them getting really frustrated and crying "It's not fair, no way can they beat me!" But yeah, it usually takes jumping from three lobbies each night to find a game where someone isn't going 34:5.

Going to campaign isn't a nice respite, for some reason it's much harder to see enemies except for the labels above their heads, the story is really rushed and forced, the two main characters love punching eachother with their robotic augmented arms, and there's a ton of chaos shoved in your face to mask the very thin plot.

Even worse about BO3, for me personally, was it was the first CoD game I ever bought with the season pass, what a joke. New DLC is tucked away in it's own playlist so I can't just have a wide selection of maps, and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong but there isn't even a way to matchmake online with DLC before the most recent one! New guns and things are locked behind the Black Market, and whether you play a ton or spend extra real money the chances of actually experiencing the DLC content fully are slim. I will never buy CoD DLC again.

/end rant.

Given the above, I was torn about getting the Black Friday deal on IW. I heard that the campaign was actually good, "I" enjoyed the feel of the guns and gameplay in the beta (and I didn't find anyone cheating!), and MWR would be quite a nostalgia trip (tho I bet Mad is right about sniping in MP). I kinda want it now, while the developers are still watching and there is still some moderation against hacking, but also I know the value of the CoD games depreciates SO FAST while I've spent more of my savings in October/November than ever before in my life. Maybe I'd rent it today (day off) on redbox, if I didn't want to finish some projects that have been on the back burner for too long


----------



## Change is Good

The CoD community is toxic. They've been migrating over to BF last few years and ruining that experience there for me as well. Titanfall 2 has been refreshing. "I" don't mind the feel of CoD's gun play and mechanics (TF2's is the same), it's the constant overdone bunny-hopping that gave me a headache. Double jumping and wall running is in TF2, as well, but with a stronger leash than IW.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh, and been seeing ya on that R6 Siege and Overwatch Yethal! *** BF1, eh? Haha.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Almost every popular online FPS community is toxic. For example just browse BF4 forums, man, such quantity of keyboard warrior virgins in one place is unseen yet


----------



## Change is Good

tic-tac said:


> Almost every popular online FPS community is toxic. For example just browse BF4 forums, man, such quantity of keyboard warrior virgins in one place is unseen yet




Very true. My favorite shooter this year was Garden Warfare 2. Yeah, the community is mostly children but it's the same competitive concept and kids just know how to have fun.

I blame the toxic bro shooter communities on today's society. No other explanation really.


----------



## rudyae86

audix said:


> Saw this list on top 8 Corsair headsets


 
 lol sounds very biased


----------



## shuto77

change is good said:


> Very true. My favorite shooter this year was Garden Warfare 2. Yeah, the community is mostly children but it's the same competitive concept and kids just know how to have fun.
> 
> I blame the toxic bro shooter communities on today's society. No other explanation really.




I'm with you. I really can't get into online shooters anymore for this reason.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Oh, and been seeing ya on that R6 Siege and Overwatch Yethal! *** BF1, eh? Haha.



Did you mean: BF4 reskin?


----------



## canthearyou

yethal said:


> Did you mean: BF4 reskin?




Did you just call BF1 a BF4 reskin?


----------



## Yethal

canthearyou said:


> Did you just call BF1 a BF4 reskin?



I did.


----------



## mashuto

yethal said:


> I did.


 
 By your argument though, every shooter that is a sequel or based on a previously used engine would be a reskin though....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really can't get into online period. ANy game remotely popular with an online component will be dragged down by the worst of its community. CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch, Street Fighter, etc. It's why I mainly stick to single player.

As for single player on PC, hmm, I usually stick to deals on slightly older games. I did buy Gears 4 though. It was good. But that game didn't innovate a damn thing. CoD has an excuse: they release it yearly. Gears 4 doesn't, but somehow that game feels like Gears 1. Nothing new but shiny graphics. Infinite Warfare this year actually FEELS better than the years before. Yes, it's classic CoD, but the variances in the gameplay, the space battles, the choose your mission structure, and the characters were all very strong. TF2 was considerably more 'typical' COD in the campaign than even CoD. Lol. Not that it's a bad thing. I GREATLY enjoyed TF2. I say of the last few campaigns, BF1 was the weakest in a spree of ALL strong games, including BF1. The stories were disjointed, with little structure and cohesion, not enough time with the characters (especially some which yielded little emotional investment), and I never found BF1 gunplay that satisfying. Still, it was, at its worst , a very good game for single player.


----------



## themrmikemcd

I teeny





mad lust envy said:


> I really can't get into online period. ANy game remotely popular with an online component will be dragged down by the worst of its community. CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch, Street Fighter, etc. It's why I mainly stick to single player.
> 
> As for single player on PC, hmm, I usually stick to deals on slightly older games. I did buy Gears 4 though. It was good. But that game didn't innovate a damn thing. CoD has an excuse: they release it yearly. Gears 4 doesn't, but somehow that game feels like Gears 1. Nothing new but shiny graphics. Infinite Warfare this year actually FEELS better than the years before. Yes, it's classic CoD, but the variances in the gameplay, the space battles, the choose your mission structure, and the characters were all very strong. TF2 was considerably more 'typical' COD in the campaign than even CoD. Lol. Not that it's a bad thing. I GREATLY enjoyed TF2. I say of the last few campaigns, BF1 was the weakest in a spree of ALL strong games, including BF1. The stories were disjointed, with little structure and cohesion, not enough time with the characters (especially some which yielded little emotional investment), and I never found BF1 gunplay that satisfying. Still, it was, at its worst , a very good game for single player.


 I rented COD IW from redbox and from the little i played, I found the single player campaign really enjoyable. I don't really need innovation in gaming. I just want to have fun and enjoy the game. $60 is a lot to spend on a game and i can see how some would say your're paying for the same thing over again...That's why i buy used


----------



## Memo214

I need advice to slowly start upgrading my current sound set up for my ps4. Years ago I bought the Astros a40+Mixamp(2011 edition) due to the hype around them, plus I needed something quick as my old Tritton AX pros broke in half. Long story short, I had buyers remorse soon after because of the quality of the emulated surround sound, I was having a harder time pinpointing the location of my enemies in COD and people keep telling me to give it time to train my ears... which never happened, and I ended up setting them to stereo but it never felt as good as the old Trittons AX 5.1. I read many times that people were using the astro mixamp with other headsets and even headphones and I decided to start researching to upgrade my set up in in stages due to budget concerns. 
  
 Right now I have a $150-200 budget to start upgrading and want to keep my mixamp as a DAC device for the time being to minimize upfront cost, which bring me to the dilemma of what to invest on first, amp(Magni 2is what I have in mind) or headphones/headset which is another mini dilemma due to additional wiring if I go with headphones, and I can care less about my voice quality but care about directional sound. Should I invest in the Magni 2 first an continue to use the A40 headset until I can afford something else? or should I invest on better quality headset or headphones(if I have to) first? which route will get net me the bigger upgrade in terms of directional sound quality?. I would appreciate if some can point me in the right direction.


----------



## PurpleAngel

memo214 said:


> I need advice to slowly start upgrading my current sound set up for my ps4. Years ago I bought the Astros a40+Mixamp(2011 edition) due to the hype around them, plus I needed something quick as my old Tritton AX pros broke in half. Long story short, I had buyers remorse soon after because of the quality of the emulated surround sound, I was having a harder time pinpointing the location of my enemies in COD and people keep telling me to give it time to train my ears... which never happened, and I ended up setting them to stereo but it never felt as good as the old Trittons AX 5.1. I read many times that people were using the astro mixamp with other headsets and even headphones and I decided to start researching to upgrade my set up in in stages due to budget concerns.
> 
> Right now I have a $150-200 budget to start upgrading and want to keep my mixamp as a DAC device for the time being to minimize upfront cost, which bring me to the dilemma of what to invest on first, amp(Magni 2is what I have in mind) or headphones/headset which is another mini dilemma due to additional wiring if I go with headphones, and I can care less about my voice quality but care about directional sound. Should I invest in the Magni 2 first an continue to use the A40 headset until I can afford something else? or should I invest on better quality headset or headphones(if I have to) first? which route will get net me the bigger upgrade in terms of directional sound quality?. I would appreciate if some can point me in the right direction.


 
  
 Assume you have you have enabled Dolby and 5.1, in the PS4's audio settings.
  
 Headphones for surround sound gaming, to be plugged into the Astro Mix-amp
 Audio Technica ATH-AD700X
 Sennheiser HD558


----------



## Memo214

purpleangel said:


> Assume you have you have enabled Dolby and 5.1, in the PS4's audio settings.
> 
> Headphones for surround sound gaming, to be plugged into the Astro Mix-amp
> Audio Technica ATH-AD700X
> Sennheiser HD558


 
 I have Bitstream DTS on ps4 settings, but disabled Dolby on my mixamp. If enable Dolby then I have a harder time pinpointing enemies location with the a40’s.

 Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is currently at the top of my list, will the mixamp be powerful enough to push them, or will I need the Magni 2?


----------



## PurpleAngel

memo214 said:


> I have Bitstream DTS on PS4 settings, but disabled Dolby on my mixamp. If enable Dolby then I have a harder time pinpointing enemies location with the a40’s.
> 
> Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is currently at the top of my list, will the mix-amp be powerful enough to push them, or will I need the Magni 2?


 
 ATH-AD700X are very easy to drive.


----------



## Yethal

mashuto said:


> By your argument though, every shooter that is a sequel or based on a previously used engine would be a reskin though....



Not really. Dice stretched the ww1 setting as much as they could in order to make as little changes to the existing gunplay as possible. That for me counts as a reskin.


----------



## mashuto

yethal said:


> Not really. Dice stretched the ww1 setting as much as they could in order to make as little changes to the existing gunplay as possible. That for me counts as a reskin.


 

 Except using the term reskin implies that the game is pretty much exactly the same except the visuals. And yes the game is similar and has similar modes, but I think there is enough different with the mechanics of the various guns, the behemoths, the destructability, etc that it doesnt feel like the same game in a new setting, it feels like a new battlefield game. We could go back to easily Bad Company 2 (my first bf game) and call each one a reskin since each has been clearly a battlefield game, with battlefield game modes, desctruction, similar gunplay, etc.
  
 All I was getting at though is that by your definition, most franchise games would fall into that category of "reskin". Pretty much every call of duty for the last 10 years has been basically a retread of the game before it but just in a new setting. Sometimes new game modes get added, but overall, the same. Even games like titanfall could fall into that category.
  
 Maybe not enough has changed for you, but calling it a reskin just doesnt seem accurate. Oh well, to each his own.


----------



## fuzun

Why mad lust does not review the formerly famous shp9500 for its gaming aspects?

Or I did not see?


----------



## Change is Good

mashuto said:


> Except using the term reskin implies that the game is pretty much exactly the same except the visuals. And yes the game is similar and has similar modes, but I think there is enough different with the mechanics of the various guns, the behemoths, the destructability, etc that it doesnt feel like the same game in a new setting, it feels like a new battlefield game. We could go back to easily Bad Company 2 (my first bf game) and call each one a reskin since each has been clearly a battlefield game, with battlefield game modes, desctruction, similar gunplay, etc.
> 
> All I was getting at though is that by your definition, most franchise games would fall into that category of "reskin". Pretty much every call of duty for the last 10 years has been basically a retread of the game before it but just in a new setting. Sometimes new game modes get added, but overall, the same. Even games like titanfall could fall into that category.
> 
> Maybe not enough has changed for you, but calling it a reskin just doesnt seem accurate. Oh well, to each his own.




I used to be a BF apologetic like you. What Yethal says is true. Each installment has been a reskin since BF3. BF3 and 4 were basically clones. Hardline felt like it was a standalone DLC with a different theme, as does BF1. "But... but... behemoths are new!" Yeah, so was levelution in BF4. That didn't change the fact that it was still a BF3 clone.

BF1 is a reskinned BF4 with behemoths and reshuffled classes. Nothing more. Still fun and one of the better shooters out there, but quite fatiguing for me as far as innovation (or lack there of) goes.


----------



## inseconds99

fuzun said:


> Why mad lust does not review the formerly famous shp9500 for its gaming aspects?
> 
> Or I did not see?


 
 He really isn't reviewing anymore, plenty of reviews on here about that headphone if your're interested.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Not really. Dice stretched the ww1 setting as much as they could in order to make as little changes to the existing gunplay as possible. That for me counts as a reskin.




I keep telling everyone it's because EA has DICE working on way too many games at once. Battlefield stopped innovating once they were given the Battlefront and Mirror's Edge IP to work on simultaneously. Quite frankly, I believe this to be the sole reason they keep avoiding 2143. Too much work in such a short window of development time.


----------



## Yethal

mashuto said:


> Except using the term reskin implies that the game is pretty much exactly the same except the visuals. And yes the game is similar and has similar modes, but I think there is enough different with the mechanics of the various guns, the behemoths, the destructability, etc that it doesnt feel like the same game in a new setting, it feels like a new battlefield game. We could go back to easily Bad Company 2 (my first bf game) and call each one a reskin since each has been clearly a battlefield game, with battlefield game modes, desctruction, similar gunplay, etc.
> 
> All I was getting at though is that by your definition, most franchise games would fall into that category of "reskin". Pretty much every call of duty for the last 10 years has been basically a retread of the game before it but just in a new setting. Sometimes new game modes get added, but overall, the same. Even games like titanfall could fall into that category.
> 
> Maybe not enough has changed for you, but calling it a reskin just doesnt seem accurate. Oh well, to each his own.



Going from Battlefield Bad Company 2 to Battlefield 3 was progress. These games were actually different and when bf3 launched it felt like a totally new game and that was great. But bf4, hardline and bf1 are kinda like being stuck in the Groundhog Day. Details change but its the same thing overall. And yeah, cod isn't innovative either I'm not going to defend them.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> I used to be a BF apologetic like you. What Yethal says is true. Each installment has been a reskin since BF3. BF3 and 4 were basically clones. Hardline felt like it was a standalone DLC with a different theme, as does BF1. "But... but... behemoths are new!" Yeah, so was levelution in BF4. That didn't change the fact that it was still a BF3 clone.
> 
> BF1 is a reskinned BF4 with behemoths and reshuffled classes. Nothing more. Still fun and one of the better shooters out there, but quite fatiguing for me as far as innovation (or lack there of) goes.


 
 No, no, no....
  
 It is not a BF4 re-skin....
  
 It's a SWBF re-skin lol
  
 Even though I am a fan of the BF series (Ever since BF1942 back in 2001?) I have to agree it is a re-skin. However, the gameplay mechanics and all is what should have been implemented into BF4 when it was released, especially the netcode. If they remade BF4 the same way as BF1, it would have been considered a really different game compared to BF3.

 I actually enjoy BF1 more than BF4 though. I think it has to do with how they made everything so pretty and the audio came out to be very good, very immersive IMO.
  
 The audio in Battlefront is also good as well, especially when the imploder blows up lol, that's like an ear-gasm for me every time.
  
 Anyways, I just got the Sennheiser GSX 1000. Going to test it out back to back with my current set up: Asus Xonar DG optical out > Schiit Modi 2 Uber > Caying C5 portable amp (hopefully soon to be upgraded to a Schiit Vali 2).
  
 Let's see how Sennheiser's Binaural Sound Engine compares to Dolby Headphone, especially with rear directional cues, soundstage and reverb.


----------



## octiceps

mad lust envy said:


> I really can't get into online period. ANy game remotely popular with an online component will be dragged down by the worst of its community. CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch, Street Fighter, etc. It's why I mainly stick to single player.
> 
> As for single player on PC, hmm, I usually stick to deals on slightly older games. I did buy Gears 4 though. It was good. But that game didn't innovate a damn thing. CoD has an excuse: they release it yearly. Gears 4 doesn't, but somehow that game feels like Gears 1. Nothing new but shiny graphics. Infinite Warfare this year actually FEELS better than the years before. Yes, it's classic CoD, but the variances in the gameplay, the space battles, the choose your mission structure, and the characters were all very strong. TF2 was considerably more 'typical' COD in the campaign than even CoD. Lol. Not that it's a bad thing. I GREATLY enjoyed TF2. I say of the last few campaigns, BF1 was the weakest in a spree of ALL strong games, including BF1. The stories were disjointed, with little structure and cohesion, not enough time with the characters (especially some which yielded little emotional investment), and I never found BF1 gunplay that satisfying. Still, it was, at its worst , a very good game for single player.




Did you just use TF2 to refer to Titanfall 2? Bruh...


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> Did you just use TF2 to refer to Titanfall 2? Bruh...


 
 You know I just realized that lol
  
 At first I was like....Team Fortress 2 doesn't have a campaign?? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  lol


----------



## TeeReQs

octiceps said:


> Did you just use TF2 to refer to Titanfall 2? Bruh...


 
 Haha, this whole time I was reading it as Team Fortress 2, and was confused.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> And yeah, cod isn't innovative either I'm not going to defend them.




What's bad about CoD is they have three dev teams cycling every three years, yet the last three games look and play 99℅ the same and have the same theme. Now THAT is flat out lazy, worse than EA/DICE sadly.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> What's bad about CoD is they have three dev teams cycling every three years, yet the last three games look and play 99℅ the same and have the same theme. Now THAT is flat out lazy, worse than EA/DICE sadly.


 
 I'm pretty sure it wasn't their choice to make three futuristic shooters in a row. It was Activision's. Still, I got to agree CoD changes even less than Battlefield with every new game. That's why I stick to Rainbow Six and Overwatch. They're fresh enough to not cause a constant deja vu (apart from the repetitiveness of the gameplay but that comes with the genre).


----------



## octiceps

Overwatch AKA Overhyped is simply a TF2 clone with worse class design and less content though. I don't see what's so fresh about that. The entirety of the game could be one or two modes in another more content-filled game. And each additional GOTY award it wins makes me more salty that Doom 2016 doesn't get the recognition it deserves because that was the better FPS this year IMO.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> Overwatch AKA Overhyped is simply a TF2 clone with worse class design and less content though. I don't see what's so fresh about that. The entirety of the game could be one or two modes in another more content-filled game. And each additional GOTY award it wins makes me more salty that Doom 2016 doesn't get the recognition it deserves because that was the better FPS this year IMO.


 

 Yeah, the hats would greatly increase the replayability of the game.


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> Yeah, the hats would greatly increase the replayability of the game.




Non-cosmetic content, bruh. Or maybe I missed the sarcasm. TF2 has way more game modes incl. co-op and offline ones and mods. You can't even play Overwatch without an Internet connection. In Overwatch a disproportionate amount of dev effort was put into making too many Hero classes that end up having little synergy with each other in live play outside of a few combos. TF2 would be a better game if it didn't have the F2P cancer.


----------



## TeeReQs

@Yethal How do you like the SS3601 op-amps in the X7? Worthy upgrade?


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> Non-cosmetic content, bruh. Or maybe I missed the sarcasm. TF2 has way more game modes incl. co-op and offline ones and mods. You can't even play Overwatch without an Internet connection. In Overwatch a disproportionate amount of dev effort was put into making too many Hero classes that end up having little synergy with each other in live play outside of a few combos. TF2 would be a better game if it didn't have the F2P cancer.


 

 TF2 would be a better game if it actually felt rewarding to play. That's something I never had there but I do both in Overwatch and R6. And yes, more game modes would be appreciated but:

I'd choose class variety over game mode variety any day
Both Battlefield and CoD have a large game mode variety and all people play is 1500% Conquest Large and Op Locker 64 players. Out of about twenty modes these games have only ~4 are populated so I don't feel like more modes would actually add value to the game
  
 As for Rainbow Six Siege, I hope that Ubisoft keeps this game alive for as long as they can and don't ruin it with even more microtransactions.
  


teereqs said:


> @Yethal How do you like the SS3601 op-amps in the X7? Worthy upgrade?


 

 Totally worthy. I've posted a full review a few months ago if You're interested.


----------



## Rambi83

Ok, the little plastic ¤#"¤#" triangle called X7 will only show me the Mixer menu and wont play music thru it nor record anything from the Mic, it worked yesterday, is this a known fault?


----------



## Rambi83

Did my frustration show thru the post


----------



## TeeReQs

@Rambi83 
  
 If you're in direct mode you can't use the mic. There's a known bug that sometimes you have to unplug and plug back in the headphones for it to recognize them. There's a new firmware update that should fix that.


----------



## rudyae86

So I have been trying the Sennheiser GSX 1000 for an hour right now. Using my Fidelio X2 and playing The Division (mostly just doing some listening around the safe house since they have a radio playing and people walking around).
  
 So far, I am highly impressed with the positional accuracy and clarity of the sounds coming from the game.
  
 Last night I was playing  The Division for 3 hours straight using my usual set up with DH and I can already tell how different Sennheisers surround works. It has different presets however and I am testing them each one of them and see what changes it affects to the sound quality.
  
 But for starters I will point out some stuff I like about the GSX 1000, I guess I will start of with some of the basics:
  
 - Since I am using the X2's, they are easily driven with the GSX 1000. Although I turn up the volume all the way to 100%, I still feel like it needs more oomph overall so the X2's can "thump" a little more. Comparing the amp aspect of the GSX 1000 to my Cayin C5, the C5 can easily drive the X2's on low gain with the dial at 3 or 4 which is almost halfway through the dial. I do have to say that remembering how my Recon3D sounds like, volume wise....GSX 1000 and Recon3D have almost the same amount of volume when used at 100%. But I am sure many of you dont go all the way to 100% anyways and it will drive low impedance headphones nicely. So overall, I am quite happy with the volume the GSX 1000 offers.
  
 -Volume dial and the little screen are pretty much great for me. Easy to use, right there when you need it. Having the facing upward is probably much easier than having your controls facing towards you. Plus most of it reacts on touch and only the mic dial and volume dial are the ones that you have to physically turn. However, sometimes the touch response of the screen doesnt register my press (I still have the plastic wrapping on it though, maybe that's why?) It's nothing serious but I kind of expected to be a little more responsive that's all. All you have to do to wake it up is to fly your hand above and it lights up. Pretty cool.
  
 -Pretty simple device. Just comes with the GSX 1000 and USB cable. No drivers needed. Windows detects it and all you really have to do is configure it to 7.1 with 48kHz@16 bit. Yup, this is probably the only thing that kind of boggles me....dont know why no 96kHz@24 bit for 7.1. However, I don't know if it really makes that much of a difference but just having it there would be nice (especially for the price its going for). Although 2.0 audio can be set to 96kHz@24 bit.....so I guess that isn't so bad.
  
 And well so far that is all I got right now. I will say that I am liking it so far. I am very use to DH since I have been using it for a little over a year now. Main reason I have been using DH since then is because 1. It is cheap 2. I needed a sound card quick and cheap 3. Wanted the rear channels to be come out more (which SBX didn't do quite as well at times, although I did like how the other channels did come out more with less reverb) 4. DH seems to be better for movies when I'm on Netflix (I don't really have a TV so I am on my PC most of the time when I am at home)
  
 I will be using the GSX for the following days and will try it out with other headphones I have with me still (which are probably the standard now within the head-fi/gaming community (Fidelio X1/X2, Sennehiser HD598, AKG K7XX although we know it's similar to the K712, SHP9500, CAL) I'll even use the Beyerdynamic COP I have not used in a while as well as the Sennheiser Momentum Over ear 1st gen.
  
 But if you guys want me to try something out or questions about it, let me know.
  
  
 I just wonder why Sennheiser made this for PC only when evidently these would probably sell like hot cakes for all the console plebs out there.
  
 Yes, it needs a more powerful and yes they should have added a line out that ouputs 7.1 so we can use our own amps but hopefully one day one of the available brands will make something with the audio needs we have.
  
 I did have my sights on the G5 a while back but the lack of console support and its sbx broken, really strayed me away from it. X7 for me as well is overkill for my needs and the price too kind of high. Price on the GSX 1000 is pretty high as well but it recently went down to $186 which is still pretty high but it is a brand new device and just like anything new, that is just how it is. I am pretty sure that the price for the GSX 1000 will drop in price later through out the next year. If they drop it to around between $120 to $150 it will be a great contender to what is available out there right now, at least for the PC gaming community and it would be an even bigger contender if they made one for consoles as well.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> TF2 would be a better game if it actually felt rewarding to play. That's something I never had there but I do both in Overwatch and R6. And yes, more game modes would be appreciated but:
> 
> I'd choose class variety over game mode variety any day
> Both Battlefield and CoD have a large game mode variety and all people play is 1500% Conquest Large and Op Locker 64 players. Out of about twenty modes these games have only ~4 are populated so I don't feel like more modes would actually add value to the game
> ...


 
 Is it the mini review in Evshrugs X7 review thread? I just stumbled upon your posts while I was searching for info on those op amps.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/1635#post_12577142


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> TF2 would be a better game if it actually felt rewarding to play. That's something I never had there but I do both in Overwatch and R6. And yes, more game modes would be appreciated but:
> 
> I'd choose class variety over game mode variety any day
> Both Battlefield and CoD have a large game mode variety and all people play is 1500% Conquest Large and Op Locker 64 players. Out of about twenty modes these games have only ~4 are populated so I don't feel like more modes would actually add value to the game




Same logic can be applied to OW's Hero selection.


----------



## Rambi83

teereqs said:


> @Rambi83
> 
> If you're in direct mode you can't use the mic. There's a known bug that sometimes you have to unplug and plug back in the headphones for it to recognize them. There's a new firmware update that should fix that.


 

 Not gonna bore you too much, Clan angry, E-Sport Championship, No Mic, No sound.. This window is all i see if i reinstall X7 unplug headphone/Mic. Is the unit faulty? I have reinstalled the program/s and driver mutiple times


----------



## TeeReQs

Not sure.I haven't had that issue. I'd try updating firmware and see if it fixes it. Is it recognized in your windows playback devices? Maybe it's clashing with onboard sound drivers.


----------



## Rambi83

teereqs said:


> Not sure.I haven't had that issue. I'd try updating firmware and see if it fixes it. Is it recognized in your windows playback devices? Maybe it's clashing with onboard sound drivers.


 
 Firmware updated yesterday, shows in windows devices. "Nvidea sound drivers blocked" and onboard deactivated Z170 . Former steelseries offboard usb deactivated and so is former usb corsair unit.  Z170, 6700K, 32 ddr4, msi seahawk 1080, win 10 64.


----------



## TeeReQs

rambi83 said:


> Firmware updated yesterday, shows in windows devices. "Nvidea sound drivers blocked" and onboard deactivated Z170 . Former steelseries offboard usb deactivated and so is former usb corsair unit.  Z170, 6700K, 32 ddr4, msi seahawk 1080, win 10 64.


 
 Dang, that's about all the suggestions I have haha. Have you had it for awhile?


----------



## Rambi83

teereqs said:


> Dang, that's about all the suggestions I have haha. Have you had it for awhile?


 
 Since yesterday, worked like a charm then therefore i went into battle today with the clan only to find out i was deaf and dumb.
 Highly appreciated that was, already contacted the shop to exchange it.


----------



## TeeReQs

rambi83 said:


> Since yesterday, worked like a charm then therefore i went into battle today with the clan only to find out i was deaf and dumb.
> Highly appreciated that was, already contacted the shop to exchange it.


 
 Bummer, I've heard in some cases the mini usb will come loose, and it will lose connection to the PC, but if it's showing up in your playback devices, that kind of debunks that possible issue.
  
@rudyae86
  
 Thanks for the mini-review. Sounds like your experience is on par with everyone else's. Might not be the best choice for high impedence cans, but there's always the option to double amp. Really wish it would work on console or I'd probably have bought this over the X7. Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm still curious if the PS4 will recognize it though. I haven't seen anybody that's tried it yet.


----------



## Rambi83

Well almighty then, here the unit is again... 

 Why, i have no idea. Can only guess a bad connection USB wise. U fail me again card and you will end up in the lake, after a propper beating that is.


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> Yes, it needs a more powerful and yes they should have added a line out that ouputs 7.1 so we can use our own amps but hopefully one day one of the available brands will make something with the audio needs we have.


 
  
 Damn, you answered the one remaining question I had about the 1000. Since the Line Out (IE speaker jack) doesn't output 7.1 I suppose that means I'll have to go with my backup plan and run the 1000 at max volume into an external amp. I really wish they had enabled 7.1 processed output on the LO jack. Maybe they still can in the future with a firmware update. I'm trying to get my hands on one so I can do some game testing with it as even with that oversight I'm still very excited about this little system.


----------



## TeeReQs

rambi83 said:


> Well almighty then, here the unit is again...
> 
> Why, i have no idea. Can only guess a bad connection USB wise. U fail me again card and you will end up in the lake, after a propper beating that is.


 
 Maybe we're on to something with the USB! Try wiggling it and see if it disconnects again.


----------



## Change is Good

Titanfall 2 is free to play for the weekend for those on the fence. Glad to see them taking a page from Overwatch and Rainbow 6 Siege as far as trying to draw interest and build the online community.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Titanfall 2 is free to play for the weekend for those on the fence. Glad to see them taking a page from Overwatch and Rainbow 6 Siege as far as trying to draw interest and build the online community.


 
 I saw that. Might have to hop on and try it.


----------



## rudyae86

teereqs said:


> @rudyae86
> 
> Thanks for the mini-review. Sounds like your experience is on par with everyone else's. Might not be the best choice for high impedence cans, but there's always the option to double amp. Really wish it would work on console or I'd probably have bought this over the X7. Unfortunately that's not the case. I'm still curious if the PS4 will recognize it though. I haven't seen anybody that's tried it yet.


 
 I have a PS4, I'll give it a try later tonight and see what it does. I doubt it will do 7.1 though.


axelcloris said:


> Damn, you answered the one remaining question I had about the 1000. Since the Line Out (IE speaker jack) doesn't output 7.1 I suppose that means I'll have to go with my backup plan and run the 1000 at max volume into an external amp. I really wish they had enabled 7.1 processed output on the LO jack. Maybe they still can in the future with a firmware update. I'm trying to get my hands on one so I can do some game testing with it as even with that oversight I'm still very excited about this little system.


 

 Yeah I tried it to see if it output to 7.1 but it didn't. It just stays at 2.0 and even if I tap to change it to 7.1, it doesn't. Even in the manual it says 2.0 only. Maybe we will get a firmware update for the LO to send out 7.1.
  
 Recon3D a while back made the optical in an Aux In via firmware so a person can connect a phone or something through it (I dont know why but they did it like that). Of course, the Aux In would only work if you were using the Recon3D on PC only since on console, you need that Optical in to get Dolby Digital into the Recon3D.
  
 So if Creative somehow managed to do that, I am hopeful that Sennheiser can do the same thing with the GSX 1000 enabling 7.1 via the Line out/speaker.
  
  
  
 So another little update:
  
 So I have started using the different settings the GSX 1000 offers like reverb, speaker or sound placement, equalizer, mic monitoring, headphone to speaker switch and 7.1 to 2.0 switch.
  
 Well headphone to speaker switch isn't anything spectacular other than it's just easy to switch from your headphones to your speakers or monitors. 7.1 to 2.0....same thing. Beats having to do everything by clicking on a UI or in playback devices or physically changing to plus your speakers into you DAC and what not.
  
 Now here comes the interesting stuff:
  
 The reverb: I played with it....reminded me of how DH sounds like. Sennheiser has a user manual that explains each setting and they are pretty basic about it. Having reverb off still gives you the best possible soundstage and as accurate as possible. Turning it on 1 notch gives you that DH2 similar sound and turning it up 1 more gives you that DH3 sound. The first 2 suit my taste and give me a better representation of the sound. The 3rd one really has much reverb and it's kind of annoying. But using either option still retains the superb positional accuracy, especially the rear audio cues.
  
 Speaker or sound placement: This also gives you 3 options. First one is Balanced, meaning all sound is coming through all "speakers" as it should be. Option 2 makes the front audio become more upfront and muffles out the rear. Option 3 muffles the front audio but reveals the rear audio more. I like balanced. Period. Unless I was really going all out TRY HARD on a game, I would choose either option 2 or 3 because obviously this feature was meant for competitive gaming. But if you want an overall balanced audio and keep it as real as possible, leaving it on Balanced is the best option.
  
 Equalizer: Pretty simple. Has Gamer mode, Music, Movie and I think Balanced/Neutral? Well Gamer mode is like Creatives Recon mode where it pretty much gets rid of the low end or most of it, and focuses on the mids and highs more, almost sounds tin like *cough*TAC*cough*. Audio and Movie give more oomph at the low end while Balanced/Neutral give you....well you know what it gives you lol. I have been using Movie for a bit right now just because I want to see how much the lows bleed into the mids and how it compares to the balanced option. But so far both Movie and Balanced/Neutral seem to be the better options for games, at least for my taste.
  
 Mic monitoring: Self explanatory. You can hear yourself chat. I guess useful for those that have a hard time hearing themselves or use closed back headphones, which is the same thing. Has 3 different options, off, low volume, high volume. Works very well but I dont really use it.
  
 There is however a weird thing for the Mic audio quality within the playback devices control panel.
  
 Sample rate and bit depth are at 16 bit and 16000 Hz (Tape Recorder Quality)
  
 When I saw this I was like What?! lol
  
 My friend will get on later tonight to play some BF1 and The Division (haven't played BF1 in a few days) and I will ask him how I sound compared to when I had my boompro mic connected to the Asus Xonar DG mic port, which IMO sounds pretty good in my friends stream or in my videos. Although I doubt there will be any bad audio coming from my mic while using the GSX 1000.
  
 I'll keep you guys posted.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Just came across this. I follow him because he knows his PC stuff but I still like to listen to his opinions about audio since he does own a pair of HD700 I believe.
  
 
  
 Well now I see he has an HD800 and HD650 lol
  
 EDIT 2: I said Gamer mode, it's actually E-Sport mode. My bad lol


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## rudyae86

socks mk2 said:


> Spoiler: they see me rantin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I just downloaded Titanfall 2 trial and I am finding plenty of matches. There is so much going on in that game lol I was dying quick. I'll get use to it eventually.


----------



## lenroot77

rudyae86 said:


> I just downloaded Titanfall 2 trial and I am finding plenty of matches. There is so much going on in that game lol I was dying quick. I'll get use to it eventually.




It's a free weekend and it was Whore'd out the last week for under retail... lol


----------



## lenroot77

That is being said I'm looking forward to checking it out!

Very much enjoying Rise of the Tomb Raider as of late.


----------



## Change is Good

socks mk2 said:


> Spoiler: they see me rantin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 I never have problems finding matches on PS4 and have had it since just about a week after launch. Not sure what platform you play on or what game mode you prefer, but I mostly play 8v8 mixtape. I've been swapping back and forth between it and BF1 and honestly it's great having both.
  


rudyae86 said:


> I just downloaded Titanfall 2 trial and I am finding plenty of matches. There is so much going on in that game lol I was dying quick. I'll get use to it eventually.


 
  
 I was too until I stopped playing it like it was BF. The pilot vs pilot gunplay is very much identical to CoD, and I was doing much better when I changed my pace of play. They key is too keep building your meter up as quickly as possible so you could call in your Titan. Being in a mech is a whole other ballgame and is what has me so drawn to it. If there were no mechs I doubt I'd enjoy it as much as I do.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## Change is Good

socks mk2 said:


> Idk. I bought it on Halloween. The game was already dead. Battlefield 1 killed the entire population; at least on PC! The only players online were pretty much maximum rank. You unlock more game modes as you level up, so uhh... there was literally nobody queuing the lower level unlocked/starter game types. I spent 45 minutes without getting into a match. I wanted my money back at that point.
> There are a couple of articles just like this one that cover the same kind of thing.
> 
> I'm stuck with it as I said. Maybe I'll reinstall if there's an actual player base now. Otherwise, back to BF1.
> ...


 
  
 There, I fixed your edit for ya.


----------



## Evshrug

Beat Rayman: Legends last night!
In other news, expect me to break silence in a bigger way soon!!


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> Is it the mini review in Evshrugs X7 review thread? I just stumbled upon your posts while I was searching for info on those op amps.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/756102/creative-sound-blaster-x7-detailed-review-impressions/1635#post_12577142


 

 Never call a man's review "mini". It breaks their self-confidence.
  
  


octiceps said:


> Same logic can be applied to OW's Hero selection.


 

 No, not really. Overwatch has 23 heroes and I'm free to play each of them every round. Battlefield 4 has 13 game modes and I'm free to play 4 of those (Conquest, Rush, TDM and Dom). It is near impossible to find a server that hosts Defuse, Capture the Flag or Gun Master.


evshrug said:


> Beat Rayman: Legends last night!
> In other news, expect me to break silence in a bigger way soon!!


 
 You finally developed Your own virtual surround processor for consoles?


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Beat Rayman: Legends last night!
> In other news, expect me to break silence in a bigger way soon!!




I hope it's what I think it is!


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> No, not really. Overwatch has 23 heroes and I'm free to play each of them every round. Battlefield 4 has 13 game modes and I'm free to play 4 of those (Conquest, Rush, TDM and Dom). It is near impossible to find a server that hosts Defuse, Capture the Flag or Gun Master.




Overwatch has 23 Heroes but only 50% are regularly encountered/used, especially in Competitive where the objective is to win which naturally separates the wheat from the chaff. Overwatch has too many Hero classes that add no value to the game and not enough modes and maps.

Back when I was playing BF4 regularly (before BF1 release) I played a lot of Gun Master. There were several consistently filled Normal and Hardcore Gun Master servers in NA on PC.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> Overwatch has 23 Heroes but only 50% are regularly encountered/used, especially in Competitive where the objective is to win which naturally separates the wheat from the chaff. Overwatch has too many Hero classes that add no value to the game and not enough modes and maps.
> 
> Back when I was playing BF4 regularly (before BF1 release) I played a lot of Gun Master. There were several consistently filled Normal and Hardcore Gun Master servers in NA on PC.


 

 If only 50% of them are encountered that means that there are 11 playable classes so two more than TF2 lol.
  
 As for Battlefield, try searching for  Defuse server, or for a STDM server, or for a CTF server or maybe an Air Superiority server. Good luck
 Also, half of the European servers are located in Germany and getting autobanned by a xenophobe geofilter is not uncommon.


----------



## mbyrnes

teereqs said:


> I guess we'll be able to compare notes once we try it out. Did you get a limited edition? I actually haven't had anytime to set mine up yet, but I did try out the AD700x with my mixamp. So far, they are just what I remember about the original AD700. Excellent positional cues, but completely lacking in bass. The cord kind of sucks too, but that's minor. They're good at what  I bought them for (gaming). My K7XX and HD6XX will be reserved for music duties. I'm also eyeing some X2's, SHP9500 and HD598SE, and to add to the arsenal. I'm going to play some COD later and switch back and forth between these and the K7XX and see how much a difference I can tell between them.




I did get a LE. I've been so busy lately that I haven't been on here. I wish i still had access to MW2. I played that game so much and knew the sound so well. I'm having difficulty finding a game with enough sound cues to really do a fair comparison. I guess I should play the new COD and see how that is. I have almost every new FPS shooter out, so I haven't even touched infinite warfare multiplayer. I'm going to use my AKG K702 65ths since that is the headphone I prefer for online. I've owned it a few years so I know it well. 

I need to get through all the new posts to see what you've said so far. I do really love the X7. Just amazing all it can do.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> I did get a LE. I've been so busy lately that I haven't been on here. I wish i still had access to MW2. I played that game so much and knew the sound so well. I'm having difficulty finding a game with enough sound cues to really do a fair comparison. I guess I should play the new COD and see how that is. I have almost every new FPS shooter out, so I haven't even touched infinite warfare multiplayer. I'm going to use my AKG K702 65ths since that is the headphone I prefer for online. I've owned it a few years so I know it well.
> 
> I need to get through all the new posts to see what you've said so far. I do really love the X7. Just amazing all it can do.


 

 Try Rainbow Six Siege for sound cues.


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> If only 50% of them are encountered that means that there are 11 playable classes so two more than TF2 lol.




TF2 stretches its fewer number of classes further due to loadout customization and they cover all of the Offense/Defense/Tank/Support/Sniper/Builder/Healer roles and sub-roles in Overwatch. Quality over quantity, m8.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> TF2 stretches its fewer number of classes further due to loadout customization and they cover all of the Offense/Defense/Tank/Support/Sniper/Builder/Healer roles and sub-roles in Overwatch. *Quality over quantity, m8*.


 
 And that is exactly the reason why I don't care that Overwatch has so few game modes.


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> And that is exactly the reason why I don't care that Overwatch has so few game modes.




It can be taken to an extreme though. 2 modes for a full-priced AAA title is a bit ridiculous.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> It can be taken to an extreme though. 2 modes for a full-priced AAA title is a bit ridiculous.


 

 Four modes. So about as many as Battlefield has (excluding the unpopulated ones).


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> Four modes. So about as many as Battlefield has (excluding the unpopulated ones).




Then clearly they aren't different enough from one another to distinguish in my mind. As far as I can tell there's only payload and point capture.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> Then clearly they aren't different enough from one another to distinguish in my mind. As far as I can tell there's only payload and point capture.


 

 And two hybrid ones. Yeah, Overwatch game modes aren't too varied. But the game clicks with me the way TF2 never did co I accept its cons and play it with joy. I stopped enjoying Battlefield a long time ago. Every two months I try to return to this game and each and every time find it as annoying as before.


----------



## octiceps

I've pretty much given up on Battlefield at this point. Just another milked shooter franchise IMO. As an admittedly huge former Battlefield fanboy who owns every single title on PC before BF1, I'd be pretty wistful and disappointed if PlanetSide 2 didn't exist.


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> I've pretty much given up on Battlefield at this point. Just another milked shooter franchise IMO. As an admittedly huge former Battlefield fanboy who owns single title on PC, I'd be pretty wistful and disappointed if PlanetSide 2 didn't exist.


 

 What about Rainbow Six?


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> What about Rainbow Six?




Not a fan of that kind of shooter. I like large combined arms with more flexibility than "PTFO and win".


----------



## Yethal

octiceps said:


> Not a fan of that kind of shooter. I like large combined arms with more flexibility than "PTFO and win".


 

 Soo, Arma3 or Squad?


----------



## octiceps

yethal said:


> Soo, Arma3 or Squad?




I don't like mil-sims either.


----------



## conquerator2

I just came to say. THE LAST OF US, PART II


----------



## Yethal

conquerator2 said:


> I just came to say. THE LAST OF US, PART II


 

 ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN!


----------



## conquerator2

The original is my favorite game this generation. Even if the sequel doesn't quite nail it as well, [though it is Naughty Dog we are talking about] I am sure it'll still be one fine game, considering they spent a t least a year or two brainstorming the plot until they were happy with it


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> I just came to say. THE LAST OF US, PART II :blink: h34r: :basshead:







yethal said:


> ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN!




What? Am I the only one excited about Cash Bandicoot and Full Throttle remasters? Haha 

But yeah, I'm anticipating a much bigger emotional roller coaster for Joel and Ellie on 2. Great times ahead for gaming.


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> What? Am I the only one excited about Cash Bandicoot and Full Throttle remasters? Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What! Wasn't the first one enough for you? It was one of the most emotionally draining games ever 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 It took me days to recover!


----------



## Change is Good

conquerator2 said:


> What! Wasn't the first one enough for you? It was one of the most emotionally draining games ever   It took me days to recover! :blink:




Oh, it was! What I meant is because of how it ended is why I'm expecting many more ups and downs this time around. Trust issues and drama all over the place!


----------



## conquerator2

change is good said:


> Oh, it was! What I meant is because of how it ended is why I'm expecting many more ups and downs this time around. Trust issues and drama all over the place!


 
 Ah, gotcha! Yeah, in that sense I am sure it'll be just at least as tense as the original


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> What? Am I the only one excited about Cash Bandicoot and Full Throttle remasters? Haha




Wait wait wait... THIS Full Throttle??!?





And now that sickness, my birthday, my marriage, and some other incidental stuff is done I hope to get back to finishing my headphone surround DSP reviews, posting my Burson OpAmp upgrade for the X7 review, and just generally come back to Head-Fi and write more


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Wait wait wait... THIS Full Throttle??!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yup!


----------



## Change is Good

Yethal, you may want to check out that new 'Let it Die' free to play game that just released on PS4 today. It's very much like the souls games but less forgiving like Necropolis. I haven't fully grasped how everything works but it sure does not feel like your average F2P game... feels and plays more like a AAA title. 

Not sure yet on how the microtransactions play a role. I believe they are there to buy in case you want to continue right where you died rather than starting over, among other things. 

Definitely not pay to win, though. Not even sure how the PvP works yet haha, but I think it's asynchronous multiplayer rather than traditional.


----------



## lenroot77

Marvel vs capcom 4... going to have to dust off the fight stick next year! Ugh ugh ugh!!!!!


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Marvel vs capcom 4... going to have to dust off the fight stick next year! Ugh ugh ugh!!!!!




Did Capcom rid the always seperate one year later super edition version? I hated having SF4 and MvC3 only to see a new 'super' edition release later on as seperate title without the option to buy the extra content as DLC. It's why I haven't even bothered with SF5 yet.

Edit: Not to mention the seperate online servers because the super editions were seperate titles, not extended versions of vanilla. Such a pain in the ars, grrr.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Did Capcom rid the always seperate one year later super edition version? I hated having SF4 and MvC3 only to see a new 'super' edition release later on as seperate title without the option to buy the extra content as DLC. It's why I haven't even bothered with SF5 yet.
> 
> Edit: Not to mention the seperate online servers because the super editions were seperate titles, not extended versions of vanilla. Such a pain in the ars, grrr.




I don't care... give me content!


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> What? Am I the only one excited about Cash Bandicoot and Full Throttle remasters? Haha
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Whenever someone releases a remaster, it always disappoints me. That's why I can't get hyped for Crash Bandicoot or Full Throttle.......IDK but some games should just be left alone and be classics.
  
 Just like Capcom is going to remaster RE2 and RE3 I believe. I don't think they will be able to top it off especially since the OG director of those games (Shinji Mikami) isn't with them ever since RE4 I believe. I haven't touched my PS2 in a while but when I did, I would pop in RE2 or RE3 and man, I still forget where something is going to pop out. Plus the frustrating controls and camera views really added more to dark atmosphere and made my anxiety even worse lol. But if they remaster RE2 or any of the first ones without those odd camera angles and controls, I won't be buying it.
  
 With that said, I am looking forward to TLOU Part 2. Probably the only reason why I got a PS4 (Because you know PCMASTERRACCE!!), well there is Gran Turismo Sport I am also waiting for since I recently got a G29 from Logitech sending it as a replacement for my G27 (I only had a problem with my shifter not working and they decided to just give me a brand new G29, cool huh? lol).
  
 Unless I am missing out on another game, PS4 won't be seeing much use after I am done with those 2 games......unless something else comes out that catches my eyes.


----------



## Change is Good

Rudy, I feel ya but the some oldies have actually been done right. I absolutely loved replaying Grim Fandango on the PS4. Double Fine worked on that, and are also the ones behind Full Throttle. I think they also remastered Maniac Mansion II (Day of the Tentacle), another Schafer classic.

But you have a fair point. Remasters from last gen are being overdone, though I guess it's a plus for those who misses out in them.

I honestly don't mind remasters as long as they are actual remakes from the ground up of real classics from 3 gens ago. RE and Grim Fandango remasters were good, imo, and have heard good things of Day of the Tentacle. I'm anticipating the same with Full Throttle and hopefully Crash (though I'm skeptical of everything Activision). Fingers crossed.


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> I did get a LE. I've been so busy lately that I haven't been on here. I wish i still had access to MW2. I played that game so much and knew the sound so well. I'm having difficulty finding a game with enough sound cues to really do a fair comparison. I guess I should play the new COD and see how that is. I have almost every new FPS shooter out, so I haven't even touched infinite warfare multiplayer. I'm going to use my AKG K702 65ths since that is the headphone I prefer for online. I've owned it a few years so I know it well.
> 
> I need to get through all the new posts to see what you've said so far. I do really love the X7. Just amazing all it can do.


 
 So far it's been great. I sold my mixamp and removed my O2 from my desk. It's nice having just one sound device for both my PC and consoles.
  
@Yethal I'm sorry I called your review _mini_. On a positive note, it's convinced me to order some.
  
 And regarding all this PSX news..I'm going to admit I never played The Last of Us. When I bought my PS4 it came with the game, but I haven't even played it yet..just got FFXV too..


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Yethal, you may want to check out that new 'Let it Die' free to play game that just released on PS4 today. It's very much like the souls games but less forgiving like Necropolis. I haven't fully grasped how everything works but it sure does not feel like your average F2P game... feels and plays more like a AAA title.
> 
> Not sure yet on how the microtransactions play a role. I believe they are there to buy in case you want to continue right where you died rather than starting over, among other things.
> 
> Definitely not pay to win, though. Not even sure how the PvP works yet haha, but I think it's asynchronous multiplayer rather than traditional.


 

 I have over a thousand hours in Necropolis, got all the trophies without using cheats and beaten the game in under two hours. At this point I'm like

  
  
  


teereqs said:


> @Yethal I'm sorry I called your review _mini_. On a positive note, it's convinced me to order some.


 
 I don't know if my reviewhood will ever be able to recover from that but I accept Your apology.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm someone who passed on TLOU when it first released. I rented it and was a bit disappointed in the little I played. When the remaster came out, I thought I'd give it another chance. Man, I have never been so upset at myself for not continuing to play it last gen. The game blew me the hell away. 10/10, Masterpiece, would bang again.

I'm very, very excited about TLOU II. Not gonna lie though, I was expecting a FFVII Remake trailer. But this was a very nice consolation prize.

The Chloe DLC trailer for Uncharted 4 for me mad hype though. I love me some Chloe and was super disappointed she wasn't in UC4 at all. This totally made me forgive them. If ANYONE knows how to do DLC, It's Naughty Dog. Can't wait.

I beat Ratchet and Clank yesterday. Contemplating on buying Exist Archive. I have no plans to get FFXV. Don't need to waste time on open world bullcrap, tedium, fetch questing drivel. I have ZERO interest in that game. This is coming from a huge FF fan. Reading the reviews and seeing that there's a lot of the bad open world habits was enough. I already didn't like the game from the demos, but that confirmed my suspicions.


----------



## conquerator2

I am about halfway through R&C.
 I also initially passed on TLoU as just "another zombie game". Boy, did I underestimate Naughty Dog 
 Also, Yakuza 6 and Kiwami coming west next year and the year after! I still have to finish 5. but 3 and 4 absolutely kicked ass!


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> And regarding all this PSX news..I'm going to admit I never played The Last of Us. When I bought my PS4 it came with the game, but I haven't even played it yet..just got FFXV too..




Well now you have a reason to! As for FFXV, pretty good so far. Not too thrilled about the fetch quest side missions. They are almost Dragon Age Inquisition bad.




yethal said:


> I have over a thousand hours in Necropolis, got all the trophies without using cheats and beaten the game in under two hours. At this point I'm like





It should feel right at home for you then, especially the floor levels. You progress upwards on Let it Die rather than down like Necropolis.




mad lust envy said:


> I have no plans to get FFXV. Don't need to waste time on open world bullcrap, tedium, fetch questing drivel. I have ZERO interest in that game. This is coming from a huge FF fan. Reading the reviews and seeing that there's a lot of the bad open world habits was enough. I already didn't like the game from the demos, but that confirmed my suspicions.




It's actually way better than the demos suggest. But yeah, fetch quests galore as I just mentioned. Just skip em, not required. The story, which is much better than I anticipated, does get linear about half way through from what I've read. You're doing yourself no justice as a fan by skipping this just because it's open world. I don't like linear games that require you to replay a whole chapter if you missed anything, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying Last of Us.

Edit: I swear, you're a worst Negative Nancy than I am. Haha. We some disgruntled Hispanics haha.


----------



## TeeReQs

I think I'm going to start playing TLOU before I dive into FFXV. Been testing out Titanfall 2 since it's been free to play this weekend. Fun game, but not something I'm going to buy. Would probably rather buy Rainbow Six: Siege. I didn't even realize FFXV was coming out this week, and I went into Gamespot to claim $50 in reservation credit that I had no idea I had. Basically got the game for $15, and it was the day one edition so got "A King's Tale" as well. At $15 that was at least worth a shot for me even without reading any opinions on the game. Never played the demo either.


----------



## Fegefeuer

the many last postings remind me I need to play a lot of games. Been playing Dark Souls 3 and GTA:O a lot in the last many months.
  
 still to go:
  
 Uncharted 4
 TLOU (yes, TLOU)
 Dishonored 2
 Ratchet and Clank
 ROTR


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> the many last postings remind me I need to play a lot of games. Been playing Dark Souls 3 and GTA:O a lot in the last many months.
> 
> still to go:
> 
> ...


 

 And Bloodborne.


----------



## TeeReQs

Steam sales are the worst too. I just end up buying a bunch of games I never end up playing.


----------



## socks mk2

[redacted]


----------



## TeeReQs

socks mk2 said:


> If I may offer some words of wisdom. If I've learned anything, nobody truly wants something unless they're willing to pay full price for it. Applies to just about anything and everything. Keep that in mind for next time before impulsively buying things you don't need or even want.
> 
> Edit: To add, there will always be another sale.




Haha, good advice. By the time the next sale comes around I probably hadn't played he game yet anyways. I just invest most of my time in multi-player games, so all the single player games I want to play take a backseat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Well now you have a reason to! As for FFXV, pretty good so far. Not too thrilled about the fetch quest side missions. They are almost Dragon Age Inquisition bad.
> It should feel right at home for you then, especially the floor levels. You progress upwards on Let it Die rather than down like Necropolis.
> It's actually way better than the demos suggest. But yeah, fetch quests galore as I just mentioned. Just skip em, not required. The story, which is much better than I anticipated, does get linear about half way through from what I've read. You're doing yourself no justice as a fan by skipping this just because it's open world. I don't like linear games that require you to replay a whole chapter if you missed anything, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying Last of Us.
> 
> Edit: I swear, you're a worst Negative Nancy than I am. Haha. We some disgruntled Hispanics haha.




When half the game is spent doing a whole bunch of nothing with your boy band in areas full of unnecessary tasks just in order to pad playtime, it's enough to know my money doesn't need to be thrown away. As I said, I have no interest in this game.

Dragon Age Inquisition is a game I played for over 100 hours. I will never make a mistake like that again. I hated the vast majority of that game but pushed through it to see if it got better...it didnt. If reviews are saying theres mostly just side missions like that, I know I'm not wasting money on it.

I'm not being negative. I'm being aware of the things that would undoubtedly make me not have fun with the game.

I especially did not like the combat system, and I know that has not changed from the recent demos. It is so boring and stiff.


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> Steam sales are the worst too. I just end up buying a bunch of games I never end up playing.


----------



## rabidgamer

Hi all,
  
 After some advice, as looking for an upgrade / change in sound.
  
 I'm currently using the Fidelio X1s (have been for over a year and a half) with an epiphany acoustics EHP - O2 amp running dolby headphone through the Asus Xonar DGX - I love the set up and the headphones but after something new now.
  
 Been looking at the DT 880 Pros (250 Ohm) or the DT 990 Premiums (250 Ohm) as they're quite cheap in the UK at the moment, but not sure how much of a change these would be, or if it'd even be worth it.
  
 Wondering if anyone who has used both (or all three) can chip in and let me know if they're a worthy upgrade or change? Any other recommendations are welcome also.
  
 Cheers!


----------



## headphonesonly

rabidgamer said:


> Hi all,
> 
> After some advice, as looking for an upgrade / change in sound.
> 
> ...


 The Dt990 are pretty good but I don't think it's really an upgrade unless your looking for more treble. IMO the x1 sounds better than the other two.


----------



## rabidgamer

That's my issue really, googling seems to say the same. I want something different but definitely not something worse 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Maybe a better sound card would be a smarter purchase for me, rather than a side grade with the headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rabidgamer said:


> After some advice, as looking for an upgrade / change in sound.
> I'm currently using the Fidelio X1s (have been for over a year and a half) with an epiphany acoustics EHP - O2 amp running dolby headphone through the Asus Xonar DGX - I love the set up and the headphones but after something new now.
> Been looking at the DT 880 Pros (250 Ohm) or the DT 990 Premiums (250 Ohm) as they're quite cheap in the UK at the moment, but not sure how much of a change these would be, or if it'd even be worth it.
> Wondering if anyone who has used both (or all three) can chip in and let me know if they're a worthy upgrade or change? Any other recommendations are welcome also.


 
  
 I thought the DT990 and Fidelio X1 have roughtly the same type of sound (strong bass/treble)?
 The DT880 is a more balanced sound, towards the bright side.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rabidgamer said:


> That's my issue really, googling seems to say the same. I want something different but definitely not something worse
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Maybe keep an eye out for a good deal on a used Asus Xonar DX sound card.
 As you already have the O2 headphone, you have something at least slightly better then any head amp built into a sound card.
 The Xonar DX has a Front Speaker line-ouput jack that just pretends to also be a headphone output, so good for connecting an external head amp to.


----------



## rabidgamer

purpleangel said:


> Maybe keep an eye out for a good deal on a used Asus Xonar DX sound card.
> As you already have the O2 headphone, you have something at least slightly better then any head amp built into a sound card.
> The Xonar DX has a Front Speaker line-ouput jack that just pretends to also be a headphone output, so good for connecting an external head amp to.


 
 My current setup is the Xonar DGX to O2 Amp, is the DX a good upgrade here? I currently plug my amp into the green speaker line-out on the card.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rabidgamer said:


> My current setup is the Xonar DGX to O2 Amp, is the DX a good upgrade here? I currently plug my amp into the green speaker line-out on the card.


 
  
 The Xonar DX is about the best "practical" sound card upgrade.
 There are nicer sound sound cards, but they have built in headphone amplifier and if you plug the O2 into their headphone jack, you getting into double amping.
 You could plug the O2 into their Front speaker jacks, but then you can't use the sound cards built in headphone surround sound feature,
 and you end up spending a lot of money on a sound card for features your not using.
 The Creative Labs Titanium-HD is a good sound card for connecting an external amp to, as it can send it's CMSS-3D Headphone surround sound out it RCA (line-output jacks), it's not made any more, so would have to buy it used (eBay)
 There is also the older Asus Xonar D2X, no built in head amp and better DAC chip then the Xonar DX.
 Titanium-HD or Xonar D2X sell used for around $100, maybe less
  
 The Xonar DGX does have a built in headphone amplifer, but it's not very powerful, so the term "doubling amping" is hard to apply to that situation.
  
 So an Xonar DX (used off eBay) is a good practical buy, as they will sell used for around $50-$60.
 So with the Xonar DX/O2 setup, you can look into getting a nicer headphone?
  
 I would try to talk you into getting the Beyerdynamic T90
 (used, $275)
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302145606176?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To update, I did just rent FFXV for $3 at Redbox. A few hours in and nothing has changed my mind. It's as tedious and uninspired as I expected it to be.


----------



## TeeReQs

purpleangel said:


> The Creative Labs Titanium-HD is a good sound card for connecting an external amp to, as it can send it's CMSS-3D Headphone surround sound out it RCA (line-output jacks), it's not made any more, so would have to buy it used (eBay)
> There is also the older Asus Xonar D2X, no built in head amp and better DAC chip then the Xonar DX.
> Titanium-HD or Xonar D2X sell used for around $100, maybe less


 
 This is how I was using my Titanium X-Fi HD with an O2 amp. Plugged into the RCA line out jacks and using CMSS-3D from the card. 
  
@rabidgamer Since I have the X7 now, I might be getting rid of the X-Fi if you're looking to try something different than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Memo214

purpleangel said:


> ATH-AD700X are very easy to drive.


 
  I went ahead and got me the AD700X this past weekend and plugged it to my 2011 Mixamp and I'm impressed with the sound. I only spent $100, leaving me with a bit of extra cash. Is there anything else I can purchase to compliment this setup? Or is this as good as it gets?
  
 Also, what settings should I have on my ps4? I currently have dolby 5.1(BITSTREAM) selected in the settings but I find myself turning off the dolby in my mixamp sounds better. Should I just set it to PCM Linear in the settings?


----------



## rabidgamer

purpleangel said:


> The Xonar DX is about the best "practical" sound card upgrade.
> There are nicer sound sound cards, but they have built in headphone amplifier and if you plug the O2 into their headphone jack, you getting into double amping.
> You could plug the O2 into their Front speaker jacks, but then you can't use the sound cards built in headphone surround sound feature,
> and you end up spending a lot of money on a sound card for features your not using.
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for the suggestions, really helpful. With the Xonar DX, would it be a simple case of plugging the amp into the green "Front Out" slot on the card? Also a bit confused by "Front speaker jacks" sorry, by this do you mean the headphone slot on the front of a case for example, or is this something different? 
  


teereqs said:


> This is how I was using my Titanium X-Fi HD with an O2 amp. Plugged into the RCA line out jacks and using CMSS-3D from the card.
> 
> @rabidgamer Since I have the X7 now, I might be getting rid of the X-Fi if you're looking to try something different than Dolby Headphone.


 
  
 Definitely interested, I'm in the UK though, would shipping be a hassle? Also, I assume the RCA line outs would require a RCA to 3.5mm jack converter, to connect to the O2 amp? Hoping it's as simple as that


----------



## TeeReQs

@rabidgamer
  
 Yep, simple as that. RCA to 3.5mm is how I had it set up. I'll PM you.


----------



## conquerator2

fegefeuer said:


> the many last postings remind me I need to play a lot of games. Been playing Dark Souls 3 and GTA:O a lot in the last many months.
> 
> still to go:
> 
> ...


 
 Also, The Last Guardian and a backlog spanning over 60 games from the alst two generations combined 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Not enough time, not enough time


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> To update, I did just rent FFXV for $3 at Redbox. A few hours in and nothing has changed my mind. It's as tedious and uninspired as I expected it to be.




I did the same yesterday... feels very mundane.


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> I did the same yesterday... feels very mundane.


 
 Well, shoot. Now you both don't have me very excited. Last FF game I played through was probably FFX. FFIX was my favorite out of all of them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rabidgamer said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, really helpful. With the Xonar DX, would it be a simple case of plugging the amp into the green "Front Out" slot on the card? Also a bit confused by "Front speaker jacks" sorry, by this do you mean the headphone slot on the front of a case for example, or is this something different?


 
  
 Front Speakers are the pair of speakers that would be in front of you.
 If you had a 2.0 speaker setup, the 2.0 would be the "Front Speakers".
 In a 5.1 setup you have 2 Front Speakers, a center speaker, a sub-woofer and 2 rear speakers.

 On the Xonar DGX card, the green jack is the Front Speakers/Headphone jack.
 The Xonar DX has the same combined Front Speaker/Headphone jack.
 So the Front Speaker/Headphone jack is where you currently (DGX) and will have (DX) the O2 amp plugged into.
  
 The audio Jack (green?) on the front of the computer case would be called the "Front panel" jack
 And would function as a (2.0) Front Speaker/Headphone jack.
  
 The audio jacks on the sound card would be face out from the back of the computer case, so would be called the back panel jacks.


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> Well, shoot. Now you both don't have me very excited. Last FF game I played through was probably FFX. FFIX was my favorite out of all of them.




Watch Kingsglaive and the YouTube miniseries and you'll know what's going on and not feel so uninterested. It sucks having to do so, but yeah you have to watch the movie at least.

I take everything these guys say about games (and even headphones) with a grain of salt, and vice versa. Some here like they're casual games, others are more hardcore. I, personally, use games as an escape from the harsh reality of my depression. That's why I lean more towards games that provide me freedom to roam and do as I choose. 

Yes, many open world games are lazily filled with unnecessary fetch quests. It doesn't take me long, however, to figure out whether to spend my time with them or not, especially not 100 hours like MLE on Inquisition haha (I finished in 40 and enjoyed it). I think Skyrim and Witcher 3 are the only open world games where I found myself doing every side quest and spent over 100 hours on. I did spend hundreds of useless hours on Destiny doing the same thing over and over, which these guys love and still play. To each their own, man. Be your own judge haha.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Watch Kingsglaive and the YouTube miniseries and you'll know what's going on and not feel so uninterested. It sucks having to do so, but yeah you have to watch the movie at least.
> 
> I take everything these guys say about games (and even headphones) with a grain of salt, and vice versa. Some here like they're casual games, others are more hardcore. I, personally, use games as an escape from the harsh reality of my depression. That's why I lean more towards games that provide me freedom to roam and do as I choose.
> 
> Yes, many open world games are lazily filled with unnecessary fetch quests. It doesn't take me long, however, to figure out whether to spend my time with them or not, especially not 100 hours like MLE on Inquisition haha (I finished in 40 and enjoyed it). I think Skyrim and Witcher 3 are the only open world games where I found myself doing every side quest and spent over 100 hours on. I did spend hundreds of useless hours on Destiny doing the same thing over and over, which these guys love and still play. To each their own, man. Be your own judge haha.


 
 I had no idea about that movie or the mini series. I'll check it out before i play. 
  
 I agree on taking everything with a grain of salt. Everyone has their own opinion on things, and I'm no different. I'll report back once I play to tell you if I enjoyed it.


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> I had no idea about that movie or the mini series. I'll check it out before i play.
> 
> I agree on taking everything with a grain of salt. Everyone has their own opinion on things, and I'm no different. I'll report back once I play to tell you if I enjoyed it.




I am having a blast running around with my boy band on our chocobos in the open world. Sometimes it's the simple things that amuse me


----------



## TeeReQs

Lol. I was watching a Twitch stream for a little while over the weekend and I got a kick out of the very colorful Chocobos they were riding around.


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> Lol. I was watching a Twitch stream for a little while over the weekend and I got a kick out of the very colorful Chocobos they were riding around.


 
  
 I was singing about it for a few days haha (you'll know what I mean soon).
  
 Here's the anime mini-series. Worst boy band ever.


----------



## TeeReQs

Haha, I suppose I will. Thanks for the link. Does it matter if I watch the mini series before Kingsglaive?


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> Haha, I suppose I will. Thanks for the link. Does it matter if I watch the mini series before Kingsglaive?




Not really, but I'd suggest watching the latter first to understand the political side of the story.

Edit: The movie is not all that, actually, but without watching it the game won't make much sense. The mini-series is great, though. Awesome way to introduce the weakest boy band ever.


----------



## Change is Good

*nevermind


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I watched the movie and the anime series. Still doesn't help the game be any better.

Then again, there's just people who like to put in games with non-plots and be free to do whatever. For me, I like the experience and depth of stories. To be engaged and motivated to press on. I don't have endless hours to do shallow, unnecessary missions. Oh, I don't have to do them? Well, I just lost 75% of a game to enjoy 25% of it. That doesn't seem appealing. I'm a completionist. I like to do everything games have to offer. This is why I consider open worlds flawed. It's mostly the same missions over and over, and over, and over, with little variety. A well structured, linear experience is constantly pushing you towards new eciting things.

It's those things that stick with me. Remember Nathan falling out of a cargo plane? Remember Soap running from a sinking ship, only to be saved by Cpt. Price at the last moment? Remember Kratos crawling out of the depths of Greek hell for revenge? Those are things I remember and can talk with others about. Instead of, "remember that time when I killed the a dragon in Dragon Age"? Or, remember when I got in a tank and killed civilians in GTA?" Those are things you expect and do over and over, and over again.

You won't see me play MGS5. Everyone has said how the story is the last thing to care about in that game due to how thin it is. This betrays what I LOVED about MGS 1-4. They took out all the intricacies and complexity of its story to cater to the open world crowd, and has ruined the franchise for it.

I don't mind there being open world games. I mind when it invades established series and turns them into something else. Something with far less plot, and much more of a random mish mash of quests. I don't even mind FFXV being open world. What bothers me is that they see this as a success, and will likely turn EVERY future FF into this. That's when I bow out and consider FF dead. They stop caring about plot, and just give us a bunch of open maps to do whatever. Go entertain yourself. It's lazy and uninspired.

If TLOU or Uncharted ever go open world, I'm done. It doesn't belong in narrative driven games. Final Fantasy has always been about pushing the stories and plot forward with a great inclusion of side quests as you progress. Now, it's turning into hey let's get a group of guys to do a bunch of meaningless missions with the story taking a backseat. Let's go kill all these mobs for 3 hours while the car gets fixed. This is shameful.

As for Destiny, I haven't played it in ages. And there's a difference: the gunplay is tight and rewarding.


----------



## Change is Good

Dude you're only in Chapter 2 chill tf out lol. We get it, you hate tedious open world fillers. If you can't look past it I don't know what to tell you. I'm in Chapter 5 and the narrative is good and plenty on the main missions. Return it, move on to the next game.

It's like you're purposely trying to kill Tee's interest after he bought it. First thing you did when he mentioned it was trash the game for being open world; without playing it mind you. Now you are playing, and ready to write it off while ine the beginning of the game. Let the man be his own judge. He already owns it. Only reason I'm even responding is so he can see an optimistic point of view from some who's well into the game and enjoying it. Stop being MAD about everything that's open world, son! Haha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not trashing it. Just stating the obvious from my perspective. It doesn't matter what chapter I'm in. That's like saying Assassin's Creed gets better as you progress, when you're doing the same crap from the first 15 minutes to the last 15.

I hate the gameplay, hate the mission structure, hate how long it takes to get anything done. This is an RPG for people who like wasting hours away.

I prefer to focus on something a bit more interesting for me.

I'm sure Tee would love it if he's into those types of games, I'm not.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Envy what do you thing about Sony MDR-1A's for general PC usage? Gaming, movies and music of course


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> That's like saying Assassin's Creed gets better as you progress, when you're doing the same crap from the first 15 minutes to the last 15.




Negative Nancy needs a nap.


----------



## rabidgamer

purpleangel said:


> The Xonar DX is about the best "practical" sound card upgrade.
> There are nicer sound sound cards, but they have built in headphone amplifier and if you plug the O2 into their headphone jack, you getting into double amping.
> You could plug the O2 into their Front speaker jacks, but then you can't use the sound cards built in headphone surround sound feature,
> and you end up spending a lot of money on a sound card for features your not using.
> ...


 
  
 I decided to go with the D2X, so will be running from that to my O2 Amp then to my headphones, will also look into the T90s.
  
 I got the D2X (Brand new in box) on eBay for £75, the DX was £55 so I felt it was worth the little extra.
  
 Thanks all for the information.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Negative Nancy needs a nap.




So says the person who hates on Destiny at every turn.


----------



## lenroot77

mad lust envy said:


> So says the person who hates on Destiny at every turn.


----------



## shuto77

It's funny, I mostly agree with @changeisgood. I like open world games that I think are done "right." That opinion is totally subjective, I know. I thought Red Dead Redemption, GTA5, and Witcher 3 are three games that really nailed it for me. Skyrim, however, did not. I'm not saying it's not great, just that I like other open world games better. 

By the same token, some of the more linear games are great. The Uncharted games and new Tomb Raider games are great. 

So, with that said, will I like FF15? I like deep action rps, and don't enjoy turn-based combat. 

What's the combat like in Ff15?


----------



## Arniesb

shuto77 said:


> It's funny, I mostly agree with @changeisgood. I like open world games that I think are done "right." That opinion is totally subjective, I know. I thought Red Dead Redemption, GTA5, and Witcher 3 are three games that really nailed it for me. Skyrim, however, did not. I'm not saying it's not great, just that I like other open world games better.
> 
> By the same token, some of the more linear games are great. The Uncharted games and new Tomb Raider games are great.
> 
> ...


In my opinion Rise of the tomb raider is open world. You can go everythere and can do whatever you even after game is completed.


----------



## shuto77

arniesb said:


> In my opinion Rise of the tomb raider is open world. You can go everythere and can do whatever you even after game is completed.


 
 I stand corrected!


----------



## PurpleAngel

rabidgamer said:


> I decided to go with the D2X, so will be running from that to my O2 Amp then to my headphones, will also look into the T90s.
> 
> I got the D2X (Brand new in box) on eBay for £75, the DX was £55 so I felt it was worth the little extra.
> 
> Thanks all for the information.


 
  
 Asus stopped making the Xonar D2X years ago, but you found one new in the box?
 But if is a D2X, you still got it for a good price.
  
 Have you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS?
  
 Maybe try the Unified Xonar Drivers?
 http://maxedtech.com/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/


----------



## TeeReQs

I'll admit, open world games aren't usually my favorite, but I do enjoy playing them, and hasn't stopped me from piling my backlog full during steam sales(The Witcher 1 & 2, Shadow of Mordor, Skyrim, etc.) I'm an FPS competitive multiplayer guy through and through, but it's nice to step away from that and do things at your own place. I tend to like to search every corner and collect things throughout the game so some open world games get a bit overwhelming at times. For now, I started playing TLOU: Remastered last night, and about 1-2 hours in. The game is pretty linear in but has a very similar feel to Uncharted, just more gritty. Not a ton of action so far, but seems like the story is starting to pickup, and have enjoyed it so far. I'll finish this and move on to FFXV. Need to add Red Dead Redemption to my list as well. Never got a chance to play it, and after watching West World I want to try it out haha.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> So says the person who hates on Destiny at every turn.




Well, since you mentioned it...



mad lust envy said:


> That's like saying *Destiny* gets better as you progress, when you're doing the same crap from the first 15 minutes to the last 15.




There. Fixed your post for ya.




mad lust envy said:


> This is an RPG for people who like wasting hours away.


.

If only it had awesome gunplay and digital Barbie dolls to dress up. Then it wouldn't be a waste.




lenroot77 said:


>




<3


----------



## Change is Good

arniesb said:


> In my opinion Rise of the tomb raider is open world. You can go everythere and can do whatever you even after game is completed.




Not really, more like open levels. You are free to explore them and fast travel between bonfires, but it's not necessarily open world. The openness is more like the souls games rather than traditional free roam.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It does have digital Backstreet Boys to dress up instead.

Destiny is a shooter. Defined by it's constant action and tactility. FFXV is 90% walking.

For the sake of not being branded close-minded, I did just buy FFXV and will play it through. There is literally nothing I wanna play at the moment, so I guess a severe waste of my time doing nothing isn't the worst thing currently.

I do wanna play The Last Guardian, and will rent it as it becomes available near me, but I expect to beat that within one or two days. World of Final Fantasy was an even bigger waste of $60, since there IS no gameplay. One of the main characters is visual and aural cancer, and I'm just incredibly mad at myself for spending money on a glorified Pokemon clone. It had Tifa... and that made me wanna get it. Serves me right for falling for that trap.

Speaking of Rise of the Tomb Raider, don't think that I wasn't disappointed at the inclusion of the open world aspects. It made me cringe as soon as I got into one of the hubs. I thought the first TR reboot was a 10/10. This one... I honestly haven't touched it since I got to that hub.


----------



## Change is Good

shuto77 said:


> What's the combat like in Ff15?




Very similar to the Kingdom Hearts and God Eater games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Very similar to the Kingdom Hearts and God Eater games.




Hell no. It's more like Magna Carta 2 than KH. I WISH it was like Kingdom Hearts. I would be all over it and praising it if it was.

You literally hold a button down as you auto combo everything in a dance of sword attacks that have literally no weight to them, aside from the heavy sword type. I would be REALLY happy if you actually HAD to press the button to attack, and get some sort of feedback. Half the time, I can't tell if the enemy is getting hit or not. If it wasn't for the damage numbers on screen, you WOULDN'T be able to tell. Needs a lot more feedback on hits. This is honestly my biggest gripe with the game. If it was Kingdom Hearts in FF skin, I would be SO happy, and wouldn't be that mad about the open world.

Let's not talk about the horrific camera, and your friends getting in the bloody way 99% of the time.


----------



## Change is Good

Yeah, you're right. Been a good long while since I played it. Shame because it's the same dev team. Hope there's a KH3 release date announced soon.

Click R3 while holding that button and it stays locked on. Then you can switch between enemies by moving the right stick. I just want to clarify I'm not praising this game's combat and world design. I'm just saying the game itself it's not as bad as you're making it out to be. Definitely not Ars Creed bad haha.

RotTR was a masterpiece.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyways, I'll stop with the disappointment, since I'm gonna have to play the game regardless. Slim pickings atm.

I'm sure ROTTR is good. I'm just not happy about the open world stuff. I loved the first because it pushed you onwards. Now, there's fetch quests. ***. But it's not FFXV level bs, lol.

I PROBABLY should have bought Exist Archive. But I keep hearing mixed things about it, and I don't want a repeat of WoFF.


----------



## TeeReQs

Kingdom Hearts is probably one my all time favorite games. If every game could make me feel the way that game did I would be in heaven. Just wanted to put that out there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love KH. Well, KH1, KH2, and Birth By Sleep. Chain of Memories was decent. The others...not so much. They got way too nutty with the battle mechanics and plot. I have hope for KH3, as it seems to have been dialed back to be more like KH2, which was a masterpiece in terms of combat mechanics.

I'll give Dream drop Distance on KH 2.8 another try, seeing as it has the Aqua side story setting up KH3.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I'm sure ROTTR is good. I'm just not happy about the open world stuff. I loved the first because it pushed you onwards. Now, there's fetch quests. ***. But it's not FFXV level bs, lol.




It's not open world, still very much like the first one. The levels are just a little bigger. I only saw a handful of side quests in the whole game (if that), nothing major.


----------



## TeeReQs

I really don't remember if I got to play KH2. I remember playing the first obviously, and Chain of memories. I remember my buddy and I convinced our moms to skip school so we could go get the game the morning it came out haha. Was KH2 extremely linear? If so, I might have played it and stopped half way through because it got boring. Just wasn't the same as the first.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I am going finish that game, once I upgrade my PC. Right now, my laptop is getting up to 103 celsius when I play games, so...yeah. I can't play games on it anymore. ;__;


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> I am going finish that game, once I upgrade my PC. Right now, my laptop is getting up to 103 celsius when I play games, so...yeah. I can't play games on it anymore. ;__;


 
 That's not good! 
  
 I haven't looked into it much, but is KH2.8 going to be a collection of all the KH games?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

teereqs said:


> I really don't remember if I got to play KH2. I remember playing the first obviously, and Chain of memories. I remember my buddy and I convinced our moms to skip school so we could go get the game the morning it came out haha. Was KH2 extremely linear? If so, I might have played it and stopped half way through because it got boring. Just wasn't the same as the first.




That's right. The map design on KH2 was really, really bad. It was basically like FFXIII, but instead of long corridors, it was a straight path broken up by 'rooms'. 

KH1 has the best maps. there was some exploration involved. They simplified it way too much in KH2. But the combat was so good, I forgave them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

teereqs said:


> That's not good!
> 
> I haven't looked into it much, but is KH2.8 going to be a collection of all the KH games?




Nah, KH 2.8 is Dream Drop Distance, the Aqua side story side game, and a movie version of I THINK Re:Coded. BUT, the two KH collectiojns that came out on PS3 are coming out on PS4 with 1080p/60fps. I'm so stoked for that. So yes, all main KH games will be on PS4 soon-ish.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Nah, KH 2.8 is Dream Drop Distance, the Aqua side story side game, and a movie version of I THINK Re:Coded. BUT, the two KH collectiojns that came out on PS3 are coming out on PS4 with 1080p/60fps. I'm so stoked for that. So yes, all main KH games will be on PS4 soon-ish.




I was confused as to what all comes in these remasters. I might have to pick up both collections now so my mind can be refreshed for KH3.


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> That's right. The map design on KH2 was really, really bad. It was basically like FFXIII, but instead of long corridors, it was a straight path broken up by 'rooms'.
> 
> KH1 has the best maps. there was some exploration involved. They simplified it way too much in KH2. But the combat was so good, I forgave them.


 
 Yep, that rings a bell now. I guess I wasn't able to forgive them, since I never ended up finishing the game.
  


mad lust envy said:


> Nah, KH 2.8 is Dream Drop Distance, the Aqua side story side game, and a movie version of I THINK Re:Coded. BUT, the two KH collectiojns that came out on PS3 are coming out on PS4 with 1080p/60fps. I'm so stoked for that. So yes, all main KH games will be on PS4 soon-ish.


 
 That's awesome, I wasn't aware of that. I was thinking maybe I'd go back and play the old versions, but I'll wait for the remaster collections. *hurries off to find release info*.


----------



## Evshrug

Hey, some guys were wondering what an OpAmp upgrade would do for the X7, and I promised to share when I finished my review of the Burson v5i OpAmps. Here it is fellas!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390_30#post_13067175

Don't expect a change in the frequency curves... but there is more depth and polish to the sound. Read the link for details!

And then, it's on to making more content from me! Please send encouragement 

Also, to any Pittsburghers out there, the local meets by bunnynamedfrank & I are picking up steam and starting to be less of a scramble-fest! I know I've seen a few of you guys in this thread but we forgot to keep in touch before the meets started... so here's an event calendar you can subscribe to, where new meets will be added (and I already added reminders about national Head-Fi/CanJam meets):
webcal://p30-calendars.icloud.com/published/2/MdmwR7UMDARbjNrdyoFAHtHznwvS1JxcIk0xGNMRIII10BcQdJJ39cbAKtqu1ULPmx_o2HFgDCnE77uGj23Y4rKysE3X0fu7QuXBc-ZOcD4


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> Yep, that rings a bell now. I guess I wasn't able to forgive them, since I never ended up finishing the game.
> 
> That's awesome, I wasn't aware of that. I was thinking maybe I'd go back and play the old versions, but I'll wait for the remaster collections. *hurries off to find release info*.




I never had a PlayStation before and missed out on all the Kingdom Hearts games, I'd be glad to have a chance to play.

Seems like 2016 (and perhaps 2017) is the year of backlog catchup, either from periods of disinterest in current titles, or from all the remastered games. There seems to be a pretty visible trend in remastering old games. On one hand, I want NEW STUFF, new IPs that bravely introduce new characters and new worlds (Love me some Tim Schaffer, they are remastering some stuff but each new game is a complete standalone experience) instead of titles including "4" or "5" in the title or are self described reboots. On the other hand, looking back on gaming history and identifying what worked may inform better future games. And there have been so many games that I missed, games that are "New to me" that have the additional benefit of already being revered as "good games."

Last bit of ranting, I am also starting to get FPS Action burned out, and really want some cool role-playing experiences and stories to sink into, But RPGs traditionally are grind-fests. If it's not open-world fetch-quests (I feel like FF7 had a lot of "small world" fetch quests), then it's grinding battles for leveling up your character. It's not that non-plot activities inherently feel like a grind though... sometimes you feel like you're working towards some skill or weapon that feels like a well-earned reward, or you have expanded your character's knowledge of events and increased the player's feeling of immersion. Sometimes it feels like work, and you're not taking a break from the real world after all. Either way, grinding gives some weight to rewards, and the best grinds are the ones that help playing feel like progress.

Or the grinds that go into morning coffee. Those are pretty good too.


----------



## henhowc

ok i'm stupid. i swear the optical passthrough wasn't working through the base station when i tried it...sigh


----------



## TeeReQs

evshrug said:


> Hey, some guys were wondering what an OpAmp upgrade would do for the X7, and I promised to share when I finished my review of the Burson v5i OpAmps. Here it is fellas!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390_30#post_13067175
> 
> Don't expect a change in the frequency curves... but there is more depth and polish to the sound. Read the link for details!
> ...


 
 Thanks for the update on this. I was looking forward to it, and I'll probably give it a good read in the morning. Are these the only other opamps you've tried with the X7? I was all set to buy some Sparkos Labs SS3601 after reading Yethal's review. Now we'll have to see..


----------



## Tic-Tac

Anyone tried those new Steelseries wireless headphones?


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Arctis 7? no.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Yeah, Arctis 7. It should be a good contender for Logitech G933


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> Thanks for the update on this. I was looking forward to it, and I'll probably give it a good read in the morning. Are these the only other opamps you've tried with the X7? I was all set to buy some Sparkos Labs SS3601 after reading Yethal's review. Now we'll have to see..




So far... only the Burson's. Yethal has tried the Sparkos and the Burson v5i, and I found his v5i review entertaining. Gotta love that height comparison photo! We take different approaches to our reviews, but I generally trust him.

One significant difference between our reviews was Yethal stated that he thought the v5i changed the treble dB, where I do not. Perhaps he was comparing the Burson to the Sparkos in that sentence?

Btw, the Burson/Supreme Sound v5i is bigger than most OpAmp chips because it's an IC/Discrete hybrid (I'm adding a pic from Burson's website, shows the extra layer of circuit board in the v5i) and it has a heatsink cap on it. That's not a problem on the X7 (you do have to leave the bottom door off), but on some other amps the different slots for OpAmps might be too close together.


----------



## TeeReQs

evshrug said:


> So far... only the Burson's. Yethal has tried the Sparkos and the Burson v5i, and I found his v5i review entertaining. Gotta love that height comparison photo! We take different approaches to our reviews, but I generally trust him.
> 
> One significant difference between our reviews was Yethal stated that he thought the v5i changed the treble dB, where I do not. Perhaps he was comparing the Burson to the Sparkos in that sentence?
> 
> Btw, the Burson/Supreme Sound v5i is bigger than most OpAmp chips because it's an IC/Discrete hybrid (I'm adding a pic from Burson's website, shows the extra layer of circuit board in the v5i) and it has a heatsink cap on it. That's not a problem on the X7 (you do have to leave the bottom door off), but on some other amps the different slots for OpAmps might be too close together.


 
 Oh, I never saw Yethal's Burson review, just the sparkos. I guess i'll need to to check that out as well. The Bursons are definitely cheaper, especially buying the whole set. (2) singles and (2) doubles for $110 isn't bad. Where the Sparkos are $80 for just the two singles.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> So far... only the Burson's. Yethal has tried the Sparkos and the Burson v5i, and I found his v5i review entertaining. Gotta love that height comparison photo! We take different approaches to our reviews, but I generally trust him.
> 
> One significant difference between our reviews was Yethal stated that he thought the v5i changed the treble dB, where I do not. Perhaps he was comparing the Burson to the Sparkos in that sentence?
> 
> Btw, the Burson/Supreme Sound v5i is bigger than most OpAmp chips because it's an IC/Discrete hybrid (I'm adding a pic from Burson's website, shows the extra layer of circuit board in the v5i) and it has a heatsink cap on it. That's not a problem on the X7 (you do have to leave the bottom door off), but on some other amps the different slots for OpAmps might be too close together.


 
  
 I'm glad You found the review entertaining, that was my primary goal.
  
 Now that You mention it I didn't compare the Burson's to the stock op-amps. It's possible that SS3601 make the treble louder and it's possible I didn't notice because I grew so accustomed to their sound signature. I'd have to find the stock op-amps to test them directly against the Bursons as my entire review was based on the V5i vs Sparkos comparison.


----------



## TeeReQs

I noticed @Yethal only tested the single op amps where @Evshrug replaced all 4 (2 singles and 2 doubles). How much of a difference is this going to make? I'm completely new to opamp rolling, so not sure if I understand the difference a single or a double makes.


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> I noticed @Yethal only tested the single op amps where @Evshrug replaced all 4 (2 singles and 2 doubles). How much of a difference is this going to make? I'm completely new to opamp rolling, so not sure if I understand the difference a single or a double makes.


 

 Burson sent me over both the singles and the duals however my pair of duals seems to be defective as they produce very loud hum when plugged in. This is probably an issue with my pair only as Evshrug's op-amps were fine. I'd love to test the SS3602 op-amps (duals) but I'd have to buy those with my own money first and that's kind of a turn-off.


----------



## TeeReQs

So, what would I gain by going with the whole setup compared to just the two singles?


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> So, what would I gain by going with the whole setup compared to just the two singles?


 

 Even better sound ofc.


----------



## Evshrug

TeeReQ,
I said in the review that I tried just swapping the Singles first... I definitely feel the full set swap is worth it. I didn't try just using the Duals with the X7's stock LME OpAmps in the single slots, because one of my LMEs pins got bent when I pulled it out. Tweezers are your friend, pull slowly, but even then I didn't feel like risking the removal of the upgraded OpAmps once I got them in there.


----------



## TeeReQs

Thanks Shrugs. I skimmed both reviews, but haven't had a chance to sit down and thoroughly read them both. Guess I should do that before i start asking questions


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> Thanks Shrugs. I skimmed both reviews, but haven't had a chance to sit down and thoroughly read them both. Guess I should do that before i start asking questions



No prob!
Spend a little time to save a little time


----------



## Change is Good

Ev, if you're in the mood for a RPG that isn't grindy then I suggest Witcher 3. Every side quest has a story and meaning to it. Best damn RPG I've ever played.


----------



## TeeReQs

I really want to play the Witcher 3, but I have 1 & 2 sitting in my Steam backlog. Is it imperative to play those before hand?


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> I really want to play the Witcher 3, but I have 1 & 2 sitting in my Steam backlog. Is it imperative to play those before hand?




I never played the first two and was very much into the story. I do wish that I did, however, so I'd have a better understanding of Gerald's relationships with everyone from prior games.


----------



## TeeReQs

Hmm, I'm half inclined to watch a story recap of the first 2 and jump into 3 right away


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Ev, if you're in the mood for a RPG that isn't grindy then I suggest Witcher 3. Every side quest has a story and meaning to it. Best damn RPG I've ever played.



Oh sure! Thanks for the recommendation, I do intend to get around to it (watched my old roommate play it for hours), but my next up game is going to be Final Fantasy X. One of those remasters I never got to play as a kid, since I didn't have a PlayStation before. But yeah, Witcher 3 is up there!


----------



## TeeReQs

This just got added to my list as well. Think I'm going with FFX/X-2 HD Remaster for PC, even though it's capped at 30fps . I never got to finish FFX, and this seems like a perfect opportunity to do so.


----------



## Arniesb

change is good said:


> I never played the first two and was very much into the story. I do wish that I did, however, so I'd have a better understanding of Gerald's relationships with everyone from prior games.


+1 I tried to play 2nd Witcher before 3d, but damn... Combat was incredibly bad Story/Storytelling was exceptional, as well as art direction and characters, but all this is nothing if combat is cringe worthy. Witcher 3 is improvement in that scenario.


----------



## TeeReQs

Just finished reading both reviews @Evshrug and @Yethal. Sounds like these are the way to go for the price point. Can get a full set for almost the same price as the Sparkos. I'll probably order some once i sell my X-Fi.


----------



## shuto77

arniesb said:


> +1 I tried to play 2nd Witcher before 3d, but damn... Combat was incredibly bad Story/Storytelling was exceptional, as well as art direction and characters, but all this is nothing if combat is cringe worthy. Witcher 3 is improvement in that scenario.


 
 I agree with you. I know a lot of people liked the Wither 2's combat, but I couldn't get into it. Withcher 3 is awesome, however.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Hey, some guys were wondering what an OpAmp upgrade would do for the X7, and I promised to share when I finished my review of the Burson v5i OpAmps. Here it is fellas!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390_30#post_13067175
> 
> Don't expect a change in the frequency curves... but there is more depth and polish to the sound. Read the link for details!
> ...


 
  
 Congratulations on your wedding! Which online games are you playing these days? 
  
 Here's the big question, at least in my mind: How much does this op-amp upgrade close the gap with something really sweet for the money in the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? I understand diminishing returns and all that, but do you think this upgrade makes the X7 sound as good as a $400-$600 dedicated headphone amp? I know that's not a fair comparison, with the X7's features, but I'm just curious if just getting the upgrade will make me happy.


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Congratulations on your wedding! Which online games are you playing these days?
> 
> Here's the big question, at least in my mind: How much does this op-amp upgrade close the gap with something really sweet for the money in the Cavalli Liquid Carbon? I understand diminishing returns and all that, but do you think this upgrade makes the X7 sound as good as a $400-$600 dedicated headphone amp? I know that's not a fair comparison, with the X7's features, but I'm just curious if just getting the upgrade will make me happy.




Thanks for the congrats!


And your question is answered in detailed fashion in the review. Give it a like after reading if you think it should get some front page love... happens sometimes!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Thanks for the congrats!
> 
> 
> And your question is answered in detailed fashion in the review. Give it a like after reading if you think it should get some front page love... happens sometimes!



The ring looks suspiciosuly similar to brushed aluminum commonly found in audio products. Coincidence?


----------



## Evshrug

Or is it Silver? The best conducting metal known to man (other than superconductors)?

In fact it's a brushed Tungsten band over a ceramic ring, quite heavy actually. Tungsten doesn't oxidize or lose it's dull luster, and is one of the more dense metals, while ceramic can be made 4x harder than steel.

It's also used in armor piercing rounds, lol!


----------



## TeeReQs

And welding rod


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> And welding rod



That may be the most matrimonious thing about it I've heard yet!!


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> That may be the most matrimonious thing about it I've heard yet!!



Nothing more romantic than an armor piercing wedding ring.


----------



## rudyae86

I mean, I wouldn't say it's the best review or explanation of showing emulated surround sound/Virtual surround sound or whatever anyone wants to call it nowadays lol but at least he is getting the word out about it. There is still and will be a lot of people hating and arguing about how it doesn't work and stuff but if someone as big as this guy is showing it out to the world, then maybe this will be a turning point.
  
 My gripe within this video is that when he was playing the games, he had it with the highest setting on reverb. I avoid that setting because it's similar to DH3. Keeping it off is the best. He does say something about the reverb at the end but many people still don't understand or care about it.
  
 But so far, I'm loving this GSX 1000, even for Movies. It almost seems like somehow it focuses a bit more on the mids...I still need to do more critical listening but that is what it seems like so far. Just ever so faintly that is what I noticed. But the rear audio cues are more spot on than SBX and DH. Like there is a good separation between the rear "speakers" and a bit more farther away from me to notice the cues from behind.
  
 I really need to try out Dolby Atmos for Headphones next, I guess later this month or the next I'll be getting Overwatch to have some fun with.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can you upload comparison videos between SBX and GSX, Rudyaeaeaeaeaeae?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> I mean, I wouldn't say it's the best review or explanation of showing emulated surround sound/Virtual surround sound or whatever anyone wants to call it nowadays lol but at least he is getting the word out about it. There is still and will be a lot of people hating and arguing about how it doesn't work and stuff but if someone as big as this guy is showing it out to the world, then maybe this will be a turning point.
> 
> My gripe within this video is that when he was playing the games, he had it with the highest setting on reverb. I avoid that setting because it's similar to DH3. Keeping it off is the best. He does say something about the reverb at the end but many people still don't understand or care about it.
> 
> ...







Literally what I said when the video released, lol. Of course I said SBX sounds better than what he demoed in the video, but it's likely only because he used the worst reverb-filled mode. Really wish he did 2 pluses.


----------



## Arniesb

yethal said:


> Nothing more romantic than an armor piercing wedding ring.


Ohh man... Im dying LoL LoL LoL ha ha


----------



## headphonesonly

This video goes a little more in depth. Skip to 9:06 for the gameplay demo.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Thanks for the congrats!
> 
> 
> And your question is answered in detailed fashion in the review. Give it a like after reading if you think it should get some front page love... happens sometimes!


 
  
 My bad! 
  
 I didn't read the "spoiler" sections. 
  
 It looks like you really did a great comparison with the Liquid Carbon.
  
 So, do I need two dual op-amps, or one dual for the X7? I wasn't sure if you meant option 1 or 2. Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> My bad!
> 
> I didn't read the "spoiler" sections.
> 
> ...



Two singles and two duals.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Two singles and two duals.


 
 I just pm'd you. I think I'm misunderstanding something here, lol.


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Literally what I said when the video released, lol. Of course I said SBX sounds better than what he demoed in the video, but it's likely only because he used the worst reverb-filled mode. Really wish he did 2 pluses.




Actually to have no reverb, it shouldn't have the + signs at all. I use it with all enhancements off and just have 7.1 enabled amd it sounds so much better than what Damitri demoed. He also failed to really test the surround as in be in a static position and trace a sound around him.



headphonesonly said:


> This video goes a little more in depth. Skip to 9:06 for the gameplay demo.


 

That is one of the first Ad/demo Sennhesier released months ago and doesn't really show it's surround capabilities. More of a showcasing video than an actual demo/test.


----------



## TeeReQs

shuto77 said:


> I just pm'd you. I think I'm misunderstanding something here, lol.


 
 Four total opamps. 2 of the single variety, and 2 of the dual variety.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Actually to have no reverb, it shouldn't have the + signs at all. I use it with all enhancements off and just have 7.1 enabled amd it sounds so much better than what Damitri demoed. He also failed to really test the surround as in be in a static position and trace a sound around him.
> 
> 
> That is one of the first Ad/demo Sennhesier released months ago and doesn't really show it's surround capabilities. More of a showcasing video than an actual demo/test.




Yeah, but I don't like reverb-less surround emulation. A little reverb adds virtual space. I like the equivalent of DH-2 levels of reverb, or SBX at 67% Surround. Too little doesn't give enough virtual distance for the rear speakers for my taste. It's too close to my head. I heard 2 pluses is like DH-2, so that's what I'd use.

DH-1 sounds 'better', but less space and immersion. I prefer the trade off of at least a little bit more reverb. But his video was like an equivalent of DH-3. It was messy.


----------



## Yethal

Can we just bring Dimitri over here for some virtual surround discussion?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> Yeah, but I don't like reverb-less surround emulation. A little reverb adds virtual space. I like the equivalent of DH-2 levels of reverb, or SBX at 67% Surround. Too little doesn't give enough virtual distance for the rear speakers for my taste. It's too close to my head. I heard 2 pluses is like DH-2, so that's what I'd use.
> 
> DH-1 sounds 'better', but less space and immersion. I prefer the trade off of at least a little bit more reverb. But his video was like an equivalent of DH-3. It was messy.




Oh in that case...adding just one + makes it sound just like DH2. I guarantee you tis because I have been using DH for a while now.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> Can we just bring Dimitri over here for some virtual surround discussion?


 
 Somebody make it happen!


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Nothing more romantic than an armor piercing wedding ring.



She pierced the armor over my heart.



shuto77 said:


> My bad!
> I didn't read the "spoiler" sections.
> It looks like you really did a great comparison with the Liquid Carbon.
> 
> So, do I need two dual op-amps, or one dual for the X7? I wasn't sure if you meant option 1 or 2. Thanks!



Option 1. Then, you ought to pick up a 2-pack of v5i Singles too, so you replace a total of four chips in the X7. You'll see the OpAmps as the four silver squares in the review pictures.


Regarding the Sennheiser GSX
I still wish it had a line-out. I agree with Mad, I didn't used to like any reverb at all (because I didn't want outdoor environments to sound like a room!), but in practice it does help give a more intuitive sense of distance.
I really want to test out this unit!


----------



## rudyae86

I honestly also got to like Dolby Headphone's reverb and dont mind it at all. It does give you a sense of more space or soundstage. I switch back and forward on the GSX using + or no + to see whoch I like more. You still can hear reverb without adding any to the sound but it's a bit more subtle. Although having ++ on the seems a little too much for me...or at least I think. I think I just have to just use what feels right to me. 

Regardless of ehat setting you use...the rear cues are like RIGHT THERE! Like seperation and clarity are good with the GSX.


----------



## octiceps

CS:GO on PC just added a new Speaker Configuration called Headphones with HRTF which gives 3D audio. Cool!
  
 http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2016/12/17260/
  

  
 ^Sounds really good to me in that video. Much better than Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Overwatch IME.


----------



## raband

The button to increase the "forward" levels seemed to do a lot more for me than anything I've had before.
  
 (I don't pick up cues once they are towards the front at all on DH, SBX etc. Left, right, rear I have a great arc of sound - as soon as it gets in front of the ears it seems to go up and over rather than continue on through the front arc.)
  
 The short time he had the option for the forward boost on the GSX I had a glimpse of more forward cues. Was hoping he'd use it again through some of the games, but he didn't.
  
 If the GSX can, infact bring those cues to the front then it'll be on my "must buy list" and replace the X7 for me for gaming and surround sound.


----------



## rudyae86

octiceps said:


> CS:GO on PC just added a new Speaker Configuration called Headphones with HRTF which gives 3D audio. Cool!
> 
> http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2016/12/17260/
> 
> ...




Yes, I read about this a few days ago about them bringing this to CS:GO. 

I haven't been on CS:GO for a few weeks but seems like I'll get on it later tonight to test it out.



raband said:


> The button to increase the "forward" levels seemed to do a lot more for me than anything I've had before.
> 
> (I don't pick up cues once they are towards the front at all on DH, SBX etc. Left, right, rear I have a great arc of sound - as soon as it gets in front of the ears it seems to go up and over rather than continue on through the front arc.)
> 
> ...




Yes the option to reveal the front or back audio cues more does in fact work, however...it seems that what it does is that it muffles either the front or back more...well I think that is the purpose right lol but it sounds kind of unnatural because when you have the option to have the rear cues stand out more and you go in front of of something like a fireplace, you really notice that it sounds as they lowered the volume for the front "speakers" and hear more towards the side and rear when in reality or at least in terms of immersion and realism, it shouldnt sound like that unless something was blocking that fireplace.

I believe the option is there for the competitive gamer that either doesn't want to get shot in the back or wants to get a jump start on his opponent.


----------



## raband

rudyae86 said:


> you go in front of of something like a fireplace,


 
  
 At the moment, using DH or SBX, if I go in front of a fireplace the fire sounds either on top of my head, or between the ears and slightly out of phase as the cues don't quite quite resolve 
  
 As I tried to explain - the rear 180o arc for me is perfect - the front 180o is pretty my a line straight through, or over my head.
  
 The quick bite I heard of the forward option seemed to be bringing the front cues closer to 45o out from the left and right hand sides - a much greater improvement.
  
 I'm not sure how common this is for other people, but the Smyth Realiser mentions it on their page as being able to get around that issue.


----------



## rudyae86

raband said:


> At the moment, using DH or SBX, if I go in front of a fireplace the fire sounds either on top of my head, or between the ears and slightly out of phase as the cues don't quite quite resolve
> 
> As I tried to explain - the rear 180o arc for me is perfect - the front 180o is pretty my a line straight through, or over my head.
> 
> ...




I understand what you have said but I dont think the feature that thr GSX would prove too beneficial because when u try to being out the front more, the rear clarity and spaciousnes and directional cues will suffer


----------



## raband

Yeah - I get that 
  
 Would be willing to trade some rear cue clarity though to have the frontal cues properly anchored to the front


----------



## rudyae86

raband said:


> Yeah - I get that
> 
> Would be willing to trade some rear cue clarity though to have the frontal cues properly anchored to the front




I think without using that feature, you would be glad to hear that even the front positional cues are better than what i expected to be. I dont hear as being above my head or similar to your experience.


In its most neutral or raw setting, the GSX sounds really good and adding one step of reverb really brings out the soundstage a bit more.

I am using my CAL with my phone, chillin but will use them in later tonight with the GSX.....let's see how much more oomph we can get out of them in terms of surround sound.


----------



## raband

Will be giving them a go - that's for sure 
  
 Am too far down the road now to stop chasing the "final solution" that actually makes everything perfect lol.


----------



## Evshrug

raband said:


> The button to increase the "forward" levels seemed to do a lot more for me than anything I've had before.
> 
> (I don't pick up cues once they are towards the front at all on DH, SBX etc. Left, right, rear I have a great arc of sound - as soon as it gets in front of the ears it seems to go up and over rather than continue on through the front arc.)
> 
> ...




I mean, I always expected that some people have ears/brains that interpret direction in significantly different ways, and this fits that theory. I liked the adjustability of the X7 and the DSS2, apparently this Sennheiser GSX also has some ability to tweak... though all these things make me salivate at the mouth EVEN MORE for my Kickstarter purchase of the Smyth Realiser A16. That's still a long way off though, so I'll play around till then!


----------



## raband

Yep - The A16 sounds like it'll be the real deal - the bolded bit below (quoted from their page) is what gives me hope
  

 With a multichannel source, surround virtualisers do indeed open up the headphone experience and expand it somewhat outward. Rearward localisation is achieved, making use of the surround channels; *and frontward localisation is achieved to a limited extent, with the center front channel especially difficult to virtualise forward. *None of these products would ever be confused with the much more precise localisation available from five or more loudspeakers about the listener
    *The Realiser*

The Realiser provides a completely different experience in which a multichannel (or stereo) recording sounds indistinguishably the same through headphones as it does through a loudspeaker array in a real room. In basic principle the Realiser is similar to the other systems in that it applies HRTFs to multichannel sound to drive the headphones. But along with other refinements, the Realiser employs three critical components not seen in the other products:  personalisation, head tracking, and the capture of the properties of any real listening space and sound system.


----------



## Evshrug

Raband and anyone else,
Without looking at the A16's page right now (I've poured over it before), it seems like the broader context of the section you put in bold is talking about the limits of what "surround *virtualisers*" kinda achieve, setting up the contrast between these products and the *Realiser A16.*

I kinda love how they say "In basic principle" and follow that with a whole lot of jargon (HRTF = Head Related Transfer Function). In layman's terms, Smyth is saying that other Virtualisers and the "Realiser" both account for the shape of a face and ears and how sound flows around a head, except others are estimated based on a generalized manikin while the Realiser measures from YOUR ears, measures YOUR speaker room environment (or, you know, some specially treated music production studio), and tracks head movements (even small ones) so that it accurately reproduces the sound of you standing in the middle of a specific room of speakers. So, this setup WILL work for anyone who isn't deaf, whereas this thread has met people with different enough head shapes that Dolby Headphone or SBX just sounds like weird stereo.

I will say that Smyth has some other secret sauce as well though... second hand, I was communicating with Stillhart during his first CanJam in SoCal, and he was super impressed with the older Realiser A8 even though the demo setup was just a generalized HRTF. The head tracking made the "speaker" placement more convincing because it seemed to emit from one spot while his head changed how it faced that spot; but even if he kept his head (and hart?) still, the surround effect seemed more "holographic" than the Recon3D he was used to.

Summit-fi costs (a lot) though, now that the Kickstarter is over preorders for the A16 are like $1700, and once it launches the regular price will be like $2000 or slightly more (All depending on Brexit and the $:£ exchange rate). I mean, that's like half the price of the less capable A8 it is replacing, but it's still only barely IMO within the range of consideration from the most die-hard surround enthusiasts, and still mainly targeted at recording engineers who want a sound studio to-go.


----------



## raband

Yep,
  
 Some of the demo vids of people trying it out seem very promising.
 They seemed genuinely blown away and confused switching between headphones and speakers - indistinguishable.


----------



## TeeReQs

I'm really excited for the Realiser, but I doubt I would buy one at the $2000 price point, $1000 maybe. I'd really need to hear one for myself before i could commit to a purchase like that.


----------



## Alfisti89

Fnatic just released a headset some days ago in collaboration with Aiaiai,   it's a TMA-2  with a mic.  
 Fnatic Gear Duel TMA-2


----------



## rudyae86

alfisti89 said:


> Fnatic just released a headset some days ago in collaboration with Aiaiai,   it's a TMA-2  with a mic.
> Fnatic Gear Duel TMA-2




Huh....interesting.


----------



## Evshrug

alfisti89 said:


> Fnatic just released a headset some days ago in collaboration with Aiaiai, it's a TMA-2  with a mic.
> Fnatic Gear Duel TMA-2




I don't know about you guys.
But I hear a headphone named something like "Fnatic Gear Duel TMA-2" and instantly I think


KOR EE DAAAAAAAAAAAH! MAH taaaaah!

KOOOR AAAAH! RAH TAH MAAAAAAAAAH! ​


----------



## Snoochers

Reading this entire thread would not be feasible, so I hope someone can help me. I game on the PS4 and PC and play all kinds of games (RPGs, Civ, FPS). I am not concerned about competitiveness. My budget is around 300-600$. What would be the very best all-around headphone for this use? Is there any rough consensus to be gleaned from this thread?


----------



## Alfisti89

snoochers said:


> Reading this entire thread would not be feasible, so I hope someone can help me. I game on the PS4 and PC and play all kinds of games (RPGs, Civ, FPS). I am not concerned about competitiveness. My budget is around 300-600$. What would be the very best all-around headphone for this use? Is there any rough consensus to be gleaned from this thread?


 

 I really like my new Fnatic Gear Duel TMA-2,   works both for PS4 and PC,  and its modular so you can change parts quite easy.
 It also comes with 2 different cables and 2 different earpads boths over-ear pleather style and on-ear pleather.  You could also add bluetooth later when Aiaiai releases it.


----------



## lenroot77

snoochers said:


> Reading this entire thread would not be feasible, so I hope someone can help me. I game on the PS4 and PC and play all kinds of games (RPGs, Civ, FPS). I am not concerned about competitiveness. My budget is around 300-600$. What would be the very best all-around headphone for this use? Is there any rough consensus to be gleaned from this thread?




I'd recommend reading the first page and then you will have an idea of what u are interested in and can ask more specific questions.


----------



## PurpleAngel

snoochers said:


> Reading this entire thread would not be feasible, so I hope someone can help me. I game on the PS4 and PC and play all kinds of games (RPGs, Civ, FPS). I am not concerned about competitiveness. My budget is around 300-600$. What would be the very best all-around headphone for this use? Is there any rough consensus to be gleaned from this thread?


 
  
 Audio quality wise (clarity) Beyerdynamic T90.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Anyone game with Sony MDR-1A's?


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> Reading this entire thread would not be feasible, so I hope someone can help me. I game on the PS4 and PC and play all kinds of games (RPGs, Civ, FPS). I am not concerned about competitiveness. My budget is around 300-600$. What would be the very best all-around headphone for this use? Is there any rough consensus to be gleaned from this thread?



Snoochers,
As you may be able to tell, there isn't a simple "Best" headphone we all agree upon as a consensus as "all around Best."
A recommendation that does come up more often than the rest is the Massdrop store special AKG K7XX, or shop anywhere for an AKG K612. These cost between $130-200. Above that price range (and below the price of the HD800, MrSpeakers Ether), the headphones either have comfort issues (heavy, hot) or the sound is uneven and colored (HD700, Nighthawk).

With your remaining budget, I'd highly recommend a surround DSP/DAC/Amp piece of gear to improve your experience, I personally think the X7 is just about the best thing out there. Connects to PS4, PC, Bluetooth, smartphones, etc, and you can EQ to make the headphone flavored to taste, it's a great all in one. $299 regularly, but Creative has a coupon code for 30% off right now I believe.

Winner!!


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Snoochers,
> As you may be able to tell, there isn't a simple "Best" headphone we all agree upon as a consensus as "all around Best."
> A recommendation that does come up more often than the rest is the Massdrop store special AKG K7XX, or shop anywhere for an AKG K612. These cost between $130-200. Above that price range (and below the price of the HD800, MrSpeakers Ether), the headphones either have comfort issues (heavy, hot) or the sound is uneven and colored (HD700, Nighthawk).
> 
> ...




Agree with this... X7 and a pair of K7xx's (or K712's if u like the color scheme and wanna throw a few extra bucks around)


----------



## TeeReQs

Hard to beat that combo. I've actually been using my SHP9500's paired with the X7, while I'm playing through The Last Of Us and they sound pretty damn good for the price.


----------



## nicobombai

teereqs said:


> Hard to beat that combo. I've actually been using my SHP9500's paired with the X7, while I'm playing through The Last Of Us and they sound pretty damn good for the price.


 
  
 Been using SHP9500 + boompro for a while, I can confirm your confirmation. But i love my DT770 tho


----------



## Snoochers

OK I have narrowed it down to the Hifiman HE-400i and the AKG 712 pro. My impression is that the HE-400i might be a better overall headphone (and also pricier) but that the AKG 712 is excellent for gaming in particular. Any reason to think that one of these would be more durable than the other? The AKGs are likely harder to drive which would complicated my PS4 setup (I don't have optical out), but might be doable. Anyone have tried both of these particular sets for gaming?


----------



## lenroot77

snoochers said:


> OK I have narrowed it down to the Hifiman HE-400i and the AKG 712 pro. My impression is that the HE-400i might be a better overall headphone (and also pricier) but that the AKG 712 is excellent for gaming in particular. Any reason to think that one of these would be more durable than the other? The AKGs are likely harder to drive which would complicated my PS4 setup (I don't have optical out), but might be doable. Anyone have tried both of these particular sets for gaming?




You may want to check if your TV is able to output/pass thru 5.1 from its optical out. Usually Sony and Vizio do. If this it the case your have the option to hook up a mixamp/X7. 

The 400i's are easier to drive than the AKG's but I would recommend an amp with them. 

If you must choose something that can be used without an amp you may want to look into a Fidelio X1/2 or a HiFiMan he-400S .


----------



## shuto77

snoochers said:


> OK I have narrowed it down to the Hifiman HE-400i and the AKG 712 pro. My impression is that the HE-400i might be a better overall headphone (and also pricier) but that the AKG 712 is excellent for gaming in particular. Any reason to think that one of these would be more durable than the other? The AKGs are likely harder to drive which would complicated my PS4 setup (I don't have optical out), but might be doable. Anyone have tried both of these particular sets for gaming?




The HE-400i isn't particularly durable, and its stock cable kinda stinks. I've owned the K7XX, which is almost identical to the K712, but the latter might be made slightly better. 

Also, the 400i is more difficult to drive than its 35 ohm output impedance would suggest. 

I have a Turtle Beach Dss2 and an iBasso D14 you could stack that would do a nice job, if you want to pm me about it.


----------



## Snoochers

AKG 712 pro vs Hifiman HE-400i

Thanks guys. Great thinking. I can probably get an amp to work. So assuming that, sound wise, which would be the ones to get? I'm assuming they are both sufficiently durable to last many years


----------



## lenroot77

snoochers said:


> AKG 712 pro vs Hifiman HE-400i
> 
> Thanks guys. Great thinking. I can probably get an amp to work. So assuming that, sound wise, which would be the ones to get? I'm assuming they are both sufficiently durable to last many years




I'd take the k712( K7xx is almost identical, I've owned them both twice... lol) all day... everyday. The 400i is a nice headphone but the AKG just shines for soundstage and positioning for gaming/movies. I also find it to be a bit more comfortable.


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> I'd take the k712( K7xx is almost identical, I've owned them both twice... lol) all day... everyday. The 400i is a nice headphone but the AKG just shines for soundstage and positioning for gaming/movies. I also find it to be a bit more comfortable.


 
 Haven't heard the Hifi's but I'll agree on both points for the K7XX. Soundstage and comfort are both excellent.


----------



## Snoochers

lenroot77 said:


> I'd take the k712( K7xx is almost identical, I've owned them both twice... lol) all day... everyday. The 400i is a nice headphone but the AKG just shines for soundstage and positioning for gaming/movies. I also find it to be a bit more comfortable.


  

  
 You've tried the HE-400i for a while as well?


----------



## Evshrug

And the K712/K7xx are more comfortable because they are lighter, this is personal opinion but I feel the HiFiman pads are more scratchy (besides the Edition X and the HE-1000, those are fine). Both have replaceable pads and cables, the AKGs have the headphone cable just on one ear up. Do you have a PS4 Slim or something?


----------



## lenroot77

snoochers said:


> You've tried the HE-400i for a while as well?




I've owned it twice, as well as the he-400S.


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> And the K712/K7xx are more comfortable because they are lighter, this is personal opinion but I feel the HiFiman pads are more scratchy (besides the Edition X and the HE-1000, those are fine). Both have replaceable pads and cables, the AKGs have the headphone cable just on one ear up. Do you have a PS4 Slim or something?


 
 Yeah I got a PS4 slim, so I think options include sticking headphones in my AVR headphone jack (I've heard mixed opinions on doing that), sticking headphones into TV headphone output (+amp probably), or using a USB amp/dac with the PS4 (I am inclined towards this to also use headphones with PC).
  
 I was leaning towards the HE-400i because they seem to be a better headphone overall and are also easier to drive (can use with iPhone if I feel like), but you guys are making me question that!


----------



## Hi-Fi EDU

@Snoochers I honestly think you'd be happy with either, so I'd say get the cheaper of the two. At the same or similar price, I'd take the 400i. I owned both and sold the K7XX/K712 once I got the 400i. To me, the latter was the "better" headphone overall. The one thing the K7XX had over the 400i was a wider soundstage (though not necessarily deeper). I'll also give the comfort edge to the K7XX but aside from a slightly tight clamp, the 400i wasn't bad either. Durability, the K7XX/12 elastic headband bands will wear out over time and the 400i's cable is....a-nnoy-ing and became faulty for me. Pick your poison


----------



## Snoochers

Thanks man, much appreciated. Every bit of feedback helps! My understanding is that these are both really 10/10 headphones and excellent "value", so either way I will be happy. I need to try on the HE-400i again. I have tried on the AKGs twice and find them incredibly comfortable.


----------



## Evshrug

Change is Good, a regular in this thread, has/had the HE 400i as a companion to his Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00 closed headphone. I'm sure he could drop several positive comments about the HE400i and why he preferred it over the AKGs.

Two more things from me, a pro and a con.
+ I really like the smoke-grey chrome on the HE400, aesthetically it gives me the good jimmies! 

- Another thing I've noticed consistent among all the open HiFiman headphones... they are the most open headphones I've yet encountered! While this might be nice for noticing when someone comes in the door behind you, they leak sound out basically just as much as they "send" it in to your ears. Also, I keep playing with them... if you cup your hands in parallel to the earcups, you can hear it affect the sound. Even from literally a foot away!


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> @Change is Good, a regular in this thread, has/had the HE 400i as a companion to his Fostex/Massdrop TH-X00 closed headphone. I'm sure he could drop several positive comments about the HE400i and why he preferred it over the AKGs.
> 
> Two more things from me, a pro and a con.
> + I really like the smoke-grey chrome on the HE400, aesthetically it gives me the good jimmies!
> ...


 
 The amount of sound leakage is actually a bit important due to the wife acceptance factor.... Would you say the AKG 712s have less leakage than the HE-400i? That would be interesting. 
  
 and @Hi-Fi EDU thank you for the post you made on these forums comparing the HE-400i and AKG712s in depth. Seems you think the HE-400i are a bit better, and if price is the same I might go for those. At this stage, my decision is being influenced by comfort (AKG might have an edge, need to try them on again), sound quality (unsure at this time, maybe an edge to HE-400i), ease of driving (HE-400i edge, but might not matter?), durability (both good probably), and sound leakage (both the same?).


----------



## ls13coco

snoochers said:


> OK I have narrowed it down to the Hifiman HE-400i and the AKG 712 pro. My impression is that the HE-400i might be a better overall headphone (and also pricier) but that the AKG 712 is excellent for gaming in particular. Any reason to think that one of these would be more durable than the other? The AKGs are likely harder to drive which would complicated my PS4 setup (I don't have optical out), but might be doable. Anyone have tried both of these particular sets for gaming?




I literally have the 400i and 712 pro shipping to me at the moment, and I game a lot on pc as well as ps4. I'll have impressions soon if you would like!
But do note I'm primarily using a Creative X7 with them but I could test each without as well.


----------



## Change is Good

I liked the 400i over the K7XX simply because it was a slightly cleaner sounding headphone. It is also sturdier and more "toss-around" friendly. You can't go wrong with either, but the 400i is technically the better value now that they are similarly priced.


----------



## Snoochers

Ok...I will likely get the HE-400i if I find them as comfortable as the 712s. 
  
 Can anyone recommend to me a headphone amp+DAC combo with a USB input that works with PS4, is preferably <150$, and that can power the HE-400i well? Virtual surround sound would be a bonus. I know some USB ones work with PS4, but maybe not all of them...


----------



## Sam21

change is good said:


> I liked the 400i over the K7XX simply because it was a slightly cleaner sounding headphone. It is also sturdier and more "toss-around" friendly. You can't go wrong with either, but the 400i is technically the better value now that they are similarly priced.


 
  
 I totally agree with that, K7xx is a bit muddy when compared with 400i or 400....my HE400 sounds cleaner and faster than the AKG, the bass is also spectacular on the HE400 while AKG has neutral bass...it might contradict MLE`s findings in this post but I think that HE400 has the bigger soundstage and sounds more spacious.


----------



## Evshrug

Hifiman's headphones (maybe planars in general?) have pretty variable drivers... some sound good, some sound really good. That said, of all the HiFiman's I've tried, they never had "soundstage" be a particularly impressive attribute. Some had great imaging, but never seems to have a "large stage." I would definitely disagree with the "Easy to drive" moniker though; sure, the HE-400 can easily be driven to "loud enough" volumes from humble amps, but it will sound dull like the life has been sucked out of it or soda that has gone flat, the sub-bass section rolls off early and vocals get pushed to the background. It just sounds weird. Both the AKG and HE400i scale up with better amping, the AKG need the volume dial turned up a little more for volume but that's not the hard part.

The AKG is semi-open and leaks noticeably less sound than the average open headphone, while yup the HiFiman open headphones leak loudly (and proudly?).

All that said, there have been many tempting times where I wanted to buy an HE400i. When everything and the environment is right, it does sing really well and is often at a great price, but, with all the caveats and fact that it would essentially be a side-grade with different tuning from the K712 I used to own, it's not a "desert island" headphone for me.

There are no USB amp/DACs that can do virtual surround over a PS4's USB port, except Sony's with Sony's wireless headphones. You can get stereo with processing that can increase the impression of frontal space, but it won't create a sense of rear sound cues (unless it guesses, which is HIGHLY inaccurate when only fed 2-channel audio). With that in mind, there are MANY great options for USB DAC/Amps within your price range. One option I really like is Creative's E5. There's a 30% off coupon for it right now that brings it down to $130-something, but more than that it's like the X7's baby (portable) brother. It has the same Texas Instruments amp chip that is implemented in many desktop amps and is impressively powerful for the size, has a decent DAC that stands up well against the Schiit Modi (haven't heard the new Modi's), but more than that it has a microphone built in that the PS4's USB recognizes so you can do chat, Bluetooth, USB Host port you can plug a smartphone directly into, regular micro USB input for the PS4 or PC, Optical input, can play several sources at once, has a nice EQ that can be adjusted in a phone app or PC suite, CAN do virtual surround on PC if you install the software suite. Did I mention it's portable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Soundstage depth/imaging is something planars kill dynamic headphones on. When I say that something like the K712 has a bigger soundstage, it's due to wall size, not necessarily depth. Within those walls, a planar would sound more spacious, but planars don't extend out as far as a good dynamic. At least not the ones I've heard, except the Ether C. That thing is beautiful in terms of soundstage for a closed headphone.

But one can't deny that planars tend to hit a wall that keeps the soundstage from being as wide and open as dynamics. Air is also not a trait most planars can compare to a dynamic. The thinner, sharper sound of dynamics in general just do air better.

As always there are exceptions to both. I haven't heard a 400i, but DEFINITELY, the original 400 does not match a K712 in soundstage. Not even close.


----------



## rufurufu

Hey everybody!!
  
 I already created a thread for this matter but i thought it would be good to ask for help here too.
 I want new headphones MAINLY for competitive fps (CSGO) but i play a lot of singleplayer games too, so i want a pair that has good positioal audio, sound stage and the fun/imersive factor. 
  
 My buget is $250 (300 if its worth it) and i'm stuck between a few options (but open for recomendations):
  
  
 -Philips Fidelio x2 (the one i like the most but not sure if the imaging/positional audio is good enough for what i want)
  
 -AKG   K612 / Q701 / 7xx / K712 (they are fun or too bass lite?)
  
 -Beyerdynamic DT 990 / T90
  
 -Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / ATH-AD900X
  
 -HIFIMAN HE-400I / 400S / Edition S
  
 -Status Audio OB-1
  
 -SoundMAGIC HP200
  
 (Im going to buy an amp if i need to)
  
 Please tell me if one of those dont match what i want so i can edit it out.
  
 Thanks and sorry for my english.


----------



## Arniesb

rufurufu said:


> Hey everybody!!
> 
> I already created a thread for this matter but i thought it would be good to ask for help here too.
> I want new headphones MAINLY for competitive fps (CSGO) but i play a lot of singleplayer games too, so i want a pair that has good positioal audio, sound stage and the fun/imersive factor.
> ...


I tried a lot of these headphones for gaming. My top 5 for most immersive 1. T90 slightly above 2. DT990 3. HD800S that i have right now. T1 and Akg 712pro. Competitive 1. T1 (I doubt there is better headphone for competitive gaming... 2. T90 not far from T1 3. HD800S (With crap quality audio soundstage can be distant and most games have crap quality audio. Nowhere near to lossless files standart) 4. Akg 712 pro and 5. Dt990 With nice amp that have great precision and big bass T90 can be a gamers dream can. Best of both worlds!


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> Hifiman's headphones (maybe planars in general?) have pretty variable drivers... some sound good, some sound really good. That said, of all the HiFiman's I've tried, they never had "soundstage" be a particularly impressive attribute. Some had great imaging, but never seems to have a "large stage." I would definitely disagree with the "Easy to drive" moniker though; sure, the HE-400 can easily be driven to "loud enough" volumes from humble amps, but it will sound dull like the life has been sucked out of it or soda that has gone flat, the sub-bass section rolls off early and vocals get pushed to the background. It just sounds weird. Both the AKG and HE400i scale up with better amping, the AKG need the volume dial turned up a little more for volume but that's not the hard part.
> 
> The AKG is semi-open and leaks noticeably less sound than the average open headphone, while yup the HiFiman open headphones leak loudly (and proudly?).
> 
> ...


 
 Wow man! Much appreciated. The hot debate between 712s and HE-400i suggest to me that either is a fine option. I am still leaning towards HE-400i because more people seem to think it might have an edge (if you do a wide google search), but I will try both tomorrow to be sure. Is sound-sound-stage the most important quality of headphones for gaming? (after general sound quality?)
  
 That amp information you provided is amazing, thank you. Much appreciated.
  
 But wait... the AKG 712 pros are *SEMI-OPEN*? Are you sure? AKG themselves list them as open and list others as semi-open (http://www.akglife.com/hp-choice-1--technology). I would love to know if the 712s have less leakage compared to the HE-400i, but have not seen an indication of this.


----------



## rufurufu

arniesb said:


> I tried a lot of these headphones for gaming. My top 5 for most immersive 1. T90 slightly above 2. DT990 3. HD800S that i have right now. T1 and Akg 712pro. Competitive 1. T1 (I doubt there is better headphone for competitive gaming... 2. T90 not far from T1 3. HD800S (With crap quality audio soundstage can be distant and most games have crap quality audio. Nowhere near to lossless files standart) 4. Akg 712 pro and 5. Dt990 With nice amp that have great precision and big bass T90 can be a gamers dream can. Best of both worlds!


 
 looks like the T90 fit my needs prety well. You know how the T90 compare with the Fidelio x2?


----------



## Arniesb

rufurufu said:


> looks like the T90 fit my needs prety well. You know how the T90 compare with the Fidelio x2?


In competitive gaming X2 is no match at all to T90. If properly amped T90 also beats X2 in immersive gaming. If not properly amped X2 will be slightly ahead in immersive gaming, but still whould be notably ahead in competitive.


----------



## kellte2

https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc

Lookin forward to 3D audio catching on. Not terribly excited about the Sony headset, but the possibility of an updated Mixamp/X7 has me very interested!


----------



## rufurufu

arniesb said:


> In competitive gaming X2 is no match at all to T90. If properly amped T90 also beats X2 in immersive gaming. If not properly amped X2 will be slightly ahead in immersive gaming, but still whould be notably ahead in competitive.


 
  
 I fell like the T90 + the proper AMP is going to be way out of my buget. I'll be able to drive the T90 and have good results with something like the Schiit Magni?
  
 What about DT990 and 712pro compared with the X2s competitive wise?  Thank you for your help


----------



## rudyae86

kellte2 said:


> https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc
> 
> Lookin forward to 3D audio catching on. Not terribly excited about the Sony headset, but the possibility of an updated Mixamp/X7 has me very interested!


 
 I really hope devs get back to doing 3D audio for games from here on out. Naughty Dog has always tried to deliver great audio in all their games.
  
 But I wonder...will this be proprietary to Sony's headset? Kind of looks like it but maybe not.


----------



## PurpleAngel

rufurufu said:


> I fell like the T90 + the proper AMP is going to be way out of my buget. I'll be able to drive the T90 and have good results with something like the Schiit Magni?
> 
> What about DT990 and 712pro compared with the X2s competitive wise?  Thank you for your help


 
  
 Here are some used T90 headphones.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/152348140927?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302145606176?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/122263338868?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 I use my T90 for all audio


----------



## Sam21

mad lust envy said:


> Soundstage depth/imaging is something planars kill dynamic headphones on. When I say that something like the K712 has a bigger soundstage, it's due to wall size, not necessarily depth. Within those walls, a planar would sound more spacious, but planars don't extend out as far as a good dynamic. At least not the ones I've heard, except the Ether C. That thing is beautiful in terms of soundstage for a closed headphone.
> 
> But one can't deny that planars tend to hit a wall that keeps the soundstage from being as wide and open as dynamics. Air is also not a trait most planars can compare to a dynamic. The thinner, sharper sound of dynamics in general just do air better.
> 
> As always there are exceptions to both. I haven't heard a 400i, but DEFINITELY, the original 400 does not match a K712 in soundstage. Not even close.


 
 If one imagines the soundstage to be a rectangular box with its volume measured by width*height*depth , then which soundstage do you think measures bigger ? i briefly compared my K702 vs HE400 and based on that, I think HE400 to have the bigger volume...what do you think ?


----------



## rufurufu

purpleangel said:


> Here are some used T90 headphones.
> 
> 
> I use my T90 for all audio


 
 can you recomend me a $100ish AMP to make good use of the T90? I heard a warm ap would suit me better, that is correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

rufurufu said:


> can you recomend me a $100ish AMP to make good use of the T90? I heard a warm ap would suit me better, that is correct?


 
 For a $100 budget, check out the Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.
 Find it on eBay, sometimes used ones go for $50-$60.


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> Wow man! Much appreciated. The hot debate between 712s and HE-400i suggest to me that either is a fine option. I am still leaning towards HE-400i because more people seem to think it might have an edge (if you do a wide google search), but I will try both tomorrow to be sure. Is sound-sound-stage the most important quality of headphones for gaming? (after general sound quality?)
> 
> That amp information you provided is amazing, thank you. Much appreciated.
> 
> But wait... the AKG 712 pros are *SEMI-OPEN*? Are you sure? AKG themselves list them as open and list others as semi-open (http://www.akglife.com/hp-choice-1--technology). I would love to know if the 712s have less leakage compared to the HE-400i, but have not seen an indication of this.



Yup, very definitely confident that the K712, Q701, and K612 are "Semi-Open," I've owned all three.

Here's a video of me comparing many headphones at relatively the same listening volume (a little louder than I usually deem comfortable):
https://youtu.be/53t_8UrB9xg

Yes, I do talk, and you can hear (or not hear at all) the relative volume of the sound leaking compared to my voice.
I recorded an impressions video of the HE400, but I've never posted it online because I spent too much time talking about the sound leakage and playing with it, LOL! 

Seriously, the HE400 and 400i are great headphones and I don't think you'd go wrong with AKG or HiFiman... they have different sets of strengths, the comfort/weight/soundstage of the K7xx (all variants) IMO are directly beneficial to gaming while the HiFimans are strongest listening to music alone in a room. The HE400 has a fairly obviously colored sound signature, so it specializes in making making certain genres sound extra special and exciting, while the signatures of the HE400i and K7xx are more well-rounded and versatile. Soundstage, separation, and imaging all directly help the Virtual Surround effect in gaming to feel like the sounds are emitting from "out of your head," but ultimately personal preference always is the most important at the end of the day.



purpleangel said:


> For a $100 budget, check out the Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.
> Find it on eBay, sometimes used ones go for $50-$60.




I spent months researching and almost buying the Bravo amps a handful of years back, till I ended up spending 2x as much, haha! For the price range, I DO also recommend the Bravo, also the near-identical Indeed tube amp (with better power supply), the Garage1215 tube amps, and Little Dot amps. All solid choices!

Resources:
Bravo V2 review (not the Ocean):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/520426/bravo-audio-v2-review-big-sound-in-a-small-package/0_30

Bravo (and variants) Discussion thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/444400/bravo-audio-funny-looking-little-tube-amps/0_30


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> Yup, very definitely confident that the K712, Q701, and K612 are "Semi-Open," I've owned all three.
> 
> Here's a video of me comparing many headphones at relatively the same listening volume (a little louder than I usually deem comfortable):
> https://youtu.be/53t_8UrB9xg
> ...


 
  
 Damn I watched your video, but I don't think you included full open ones for the comparison! I don't see any sources that the 712s are semi-open or partly isolated. What makes you say that?


----------



## lenroot77

I think u should just buy both! Sell/return the one u like least!


----------



## rufurufu

purpleangel said:


> For a $100 budget, check out the Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.
> Find it on eBay, sometimes used ones go for $50-$60.


 
  


evshrug said:


> I spent months researching and almost buying the Bravo amps a handful of years back, till I ended up spending 2x as much, haha! For the price range, I DO also recommend the Bravo, also the near-identical Indeed tube amp (with better power supply), the Garage1215 tube amps, and Little Dot amps. All solid choices!


 
  
 TYVM for the atention, i've narrowed down to 2 options thanks to you guys: T90 or X2.
  
 One last question before going back to research mode, can u guys put the T90, X2, DT990, K712 in order competitive wise?


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> Damn I watched your video, but I don't think you included full open ones for the comparison! I don't see any sources that the 712s are semi-open or partly isolated. What makes you say that?



The design is technically more like an open design than a closed design, but if you mentally picture the inner circle and the outer ring around it on each cup, the headphone is open inside the circle area, yet closed between the outer ring and the circle. It's simpler to just market it as "open," but it's the same design as the Q701 and K701 (different pads), and they changed their marketing.

All that is blah blah blah though, what matters is that it helps reinforce the lower bass presence a bit while maintaining airy highs, and as you probably noticed in the video the audio leak was even quieter than the Koss, which is an open headphone, and the EarPods, which aren't headphones but they're not sealed either (I'd say they're open earphones).



lenroot77 said:


> I think u should just buy both! Sell/return the one u like least!



Hear Hear!


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> The design is technically more like an open design than a closed design, but if you mentally picture the inner circle and the outer ring around it on each cup, the headphone is open inside the circle area, yet closed between the outer ring and the circle. It's simpler to just market it as "open," but it's the same design as the Q701 and K701 (different pads), and they changed their marketing.
> 
> All that is blah blah blah though, what matters is that it helps reinforce the lower bass presence a bit while maintaining airy highs, and as you probably noticed in the video the audio leak was even quieter than the Koss, which is an open headphone, and the EarPods, which aren't headphones but they're not sealed either (I'd say they're open earphones).
> Hear Hear!




Hmm... I don't quite get your meaning. How is that build different from the HE-400i?


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> Hmm... I don't quite get your meaning. How is that build different from the HE-400i?




Ok, here are my AKG K612 (currently listening to the Westworld soundtrack):

The driver is huge. Almost as big as the outer silver ring. The AKGs are closed from the silver ring and inwards, until it reaches the silver circle in the center, and that's where it's open. 

The HE400i is different because the driver is about the same size, but there is almost nothing at all covering the driver:


The HE 400i has great bass response despite being open (a planar magnetic driver advantage), and it may well be more detailed and musically a better headphone, but it sounds intimate compared to the K712, and the HE400i weighs more and leaks more, which is why I still feel the K712 (or K7XX from massdrop at $200, or K612 for $140) is better suited to the parameters you set out. But if you get the HE400i, you'll like those too. I haven't found open headphones to be too problematic at home.


----------



## rudyae86

Don't know what you guys think about this video?
  
 They do sound in a way similar but the rear cues still stand out more with the GSX 1000.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Haven't listened to it yet. 
  
 The problem with this device is that it's very limited. Only PC, no VS over Line Out or anything else, limited driveability of headphones. All this for 230€+. You can get used X7's for the same price. Kills every excitement. I'd accept PC only if it had all these missing features.


----------



## raband

If the VS over headphones works for me better than any of the other ones then I'd buy it.
  
 As I mentioned earlier - I think I'm an outlier where I'm not really able to hear frontal cues from any of the current solutions (rear cues are perfect)- if the Senn solution gets me that then it'll be worth it.
  
 I think though I'll need to be going for something with a version of head tracking though - so my head movements help resolve the front/rear issue.


----------



## Yethal

It's PC and Mac device only. No console support, no AV support, no Android/iOS support and no Linux support.
 Oh the things I'd give away for an HDMI based virtual surround device that does not cost 2000$ (Realiser A16) and isn't married to its own headset (Tritton Katana).


----------



## headphonesonly

rudyae86 said:


> Don't know what you guys think about this video?
> 
> They do sound in a way similar but the rear cues still stand out more with the GSX 1000.


I'm actually the opposite of you. I think sbx had more distinguishable rear cues than the GSX, and there was noticeably less reverb with sbx too.


----------



## raband

Woohoo 
  
 On this one I'm getting proper sound coming from the front with the GSX1000 
  
 Maybe the model they used for their HTRF calculations was closer to my head than that used in other VS solutions.
  
 Am definitely going to be looking at this unit a lot closer.


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> Ok, here are my AKG K612 (currently listening to the Westworld soundtrack):
> 
> The driver is huge. Almost as big as the outer silver ring. The AKGs are closed from the silver ring and inwards, until it reaches the silver circle in the center, and that's where it's open.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Oh I see! The whole side of the 712s are "mesh"/"cage" like and I figured that would mean it is all open! Similar to the HE-400i


----------



## AxelCloris

As someone who primarily plays PC games at the moment, I'd gladly pay $200+ for a dedicated device that delivers better positional cues than DH, Atmos and SBX. Dolby Headphone still stands as my personal favorite DSP but it's not perfect. If we could get Sennheiser to code the DSP into the line out then, from what I've seen so far, it would be a candidate for the best PC gamer's device. All I want is the greatest DSP on the market, a reasonable sounding DAC stage and a line out. That said, my perfect device isn't ideal for everyone because I don't care about mic controls since I game with my recording gear.


----------



## Snoochers

Is there a USB dac/AMP that can provide virtual surround sound for both PC and PS4?


----------



## AxelCloris

snoochers said:


> Is there a USB dac/AMP that can provide virtual surround sound for both PC and PS4?


 
  
 Check the first post, there are a few that have been reviewed already.


----------



## Evshrug

axelcloris said:


> As someone who primarily plays PC games at the moment, I'd gladly pay $200+ for a dedicated device that delivers better positional cues than DH, Atmos and SBX. Dolby Headphone still stands as my personal favorite DSP but it's not perfect. If we could get Sennheiser to code the DSP into the line out then, from what I've seen so far, it would be a candidate for the best PC gamer's device. All I want is the greatest DSP on the market, a reasonable sounding DAC stage and a line out. That said, my perfect device isn't ideal for everyone because I don't care about mic controls since I game with my recording gear.



Oh, your budget is over +$200? Well I expect that WILL be the Smyth Realiser A16... missed out on the Kickstarter, but start saving now and maybe you can afford one by summer!


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> Is there a USB dac/AMP that can provide virtual surround sound for both PC and PS4?



PS4 only sends stereo through USB, so NO there isn't. try a receiver





axelcloris said:


> The Creative Recon3D USB and X7 can receive the 5.1 signal from a console via optical, but they're also USB DAC/amps, so YES there are.


!
Lots of things can process a surround signal sent via USB, the point is the PS4 does not send Surround through USB, so NO NONE CAN CONNECT TO A CONSOLE's USB and get a surround signal to process.





snoochers said:


> Well that is what I meant by "virtual" surround, because it uses the stereo and creates virtual surround and not actual surround
> 
> Thanks I will look more closely at the first post. For some reason I was under the impression that those were more for surround sound and poor amps




Aggggh!
It's all virtual since you're using two speakers, the important difference is if it's creating that from stereo or a higher multichannel signal!


----------



## Snoochers

Well that is what I meant by "virtual" surround, because it uses the stereo and creates virtual surround and not actual surround 
  
 Thanks I will look more closely at the first post. For some reason I was under the impression that those were more for surround sound and poor amps


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> PS4 only sends stereo through USB, so NO there isn't.


 
  
 The Creative Recon3D USB and X7 can receive the 5.1 signal from a console via optical, but they're also USB DAC/amps, so YES there are.


----------



## PurpleAngel

snoochers said:


> Is there a USB dac/AMP that can provide virtual surround sound for both PC and PS4?


 
  
 A Astro Mix-amp or Turtlebeach DSS Ear-force is about the only thing for a reasonable price that provides what I would call decent headphone surround sound, for a gaming console.
 An Asus Xonar DG or DGX sound card, would be better for PC use, over the Mix-amp (or DSS).
 Get an Mix-amp for a gaming console (PS4) and a DG/DGX for the PC and use an audio switch box to switch between the two.
  
 Guess I have to read up on the Recon3D USB device.


----------



## Evshrug

evshrug said:


> PS4 only sends stereo through USB, so NO there isn't. Try a receiver with HDMI and a Headphone Surround DSP, like my Yamaha


----------



## Evshrug

Sorry guys, the website is making funny things happen: I go to edit one message, it makes a new post while also combining a bunch of other posts...

Key thing for Snoochers: he bought the new PS4 Slim, which is smaller but also has no optical output. So, he wouldn't be able to get Virtual Surround with the Recon3D USB, Mixamp, or DSS because those all decode Dolby Surround (DDL) from consoles via their optical connections.

All of those (and the E5) can get stereo from the PS4's USB port, some can even process stereo to have a crossfeed or for some people make it seem like sounds are centered in front of the head instead of centered right between your ears. If Snoochers wants Headphone Surround (surround convincingly downmixed into a stereo that still seems to sound surround with headphones) instead of upmixed stereo, and he doesn't have a PS4 with optical, then his only options are audio/video receivers (AVR) with HDMI and a headphone DSP (Old Marantz receivers, Yamaha), the expensive Smyth Realiser or Beyerdynamic Headzone, or one of Sony's first-party options which all suck (except for PlayStation VR, that's pretty great).

Realistically, the best options for PS4 Slim owners are:
A: Giving up on surround
B: Digging up a second hand AVR
C: PS VR
D: Waiting to see if someone makes new devices.

I don't know if that Tritton Katana (which takes HDMI input) setup would allow the use of other headphones.


----------



## Drizz1e

I use this for my newer 360 that doesn't have optical input:
  
 https://shop.turtlebeach.com/us/hd-audio-converter
  
 You can stick it in between your console and your virtual surround device of choice. I honestly don't know if it hinders audio quality, but it sounds fine to me.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Sorry guys, the website is making funny things happen: I go to edit one message, it makes a new post while also combining a bunch of other posts...
> 
> Key thing for Snoochers: he bought the new PS4 Slim, which is smaller but also has no optical output. So, he wouldn't be able to get Virtual Surround with the Recon3D USB, Mixamp, or DSS because those all decode Dolby Surround (DDL) from consoles via their optical connections.
> 
> ...


 

 Katana does not allow use of other headphones but it should be possible to modify it that way.


----------



## Sam21

man...I love MGS series...running 1&2 on PC right now...planning to emulate snake eater...


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> Sorry guys, the website is making funny things happen: I go to edit one message, it makes a new post while also combining a bunch of other posts...
> 
> Key thing for Snoochers: he bought the new PS4 Slim, which is smaller but also has no optical output. So, he wouldn't be able to get Virtual Surround with the Recon3D USB, Mixamp, or DSS because those all decode Dolby Surround (DDL) from consoles via their optical connections.
> 
> ...


 
  
 I actually have an AVR that offers simulated surround sound. But I have been told that the AVR would not act as a good enough headphone amp through the headphone jack!


----------



## PurpleAngel

snoochers said:


> I actually have an AVR that offers simulated surround sound. But I have been told that the AVR would not act as a good enough headphone amp through the headphone jack!


 
  
 Headphones in the 250-Ohm to 300-Ohm range can work decently with the headphone amplifier on a lot of receivers/stereo amplifiers.
 Newer model A/V receivers (made in the last year or two?) might do better with lower Ohm headphones.
  
 What is the make and model of the AVR you have?


----------



## Snoochers

purpleangel said:


> Headphones in the 250-Ohm to 300-Ohm range can work decently with the headphone amplifier on a lot of receivers/stereo amplifiers.
> Newer model A/V receivers (made in the last year or two?) might do better with lower Ohm headphones.
> 
> What is the make and model of the AVR you have?




I have Onkyo TX-NR636 as receiver. And the AKG 712 don't have an impedance near 300..


----------



## PurpleAngel

snoochers said:


> I have Onkyo TX-NR636 as receiver. And the AKG 712 don't have an impedance near 300..


 
  
 The 62-Ohm AKG 712 are lower Ohm, but are more power hungry then 250-Ohm Beyer headphones.
 Looks like the Onkyo TX-NR636 is a fairly new design.
 How do the AKG K712 sound plugged into the Onkyo?


----------



## Snoochers

purpleangel said:


> The 62-Ohm AKG 712 are lower Ohm, but are more power hungry then 250-Ohm Beyer headphones.
> Looks like the Onkyo TX-NR636 is a fairly new design.
> How do the AKG K712 sound plugged into the Onkyo?




I don't know! Don't own them yet.. I'm not concerned about the power of the AVR, more concerned about the potentially high output impedance (greater than 10% the headphone impedance)


----------



## PurpleAngel

snoochers said:


> I don't know! Don't own them yet.. I'm not concerned about the power of the AVR, more concerned about the potentially high output impedance (greater than 10% the headphone impedance)


 
  
 The 8 to 1 or 10 to 1 impedance issue is more like a good guide line, then a fixed rule.
 I will plug my 40-Ohm headphones into an amplifier with a 10-Ohm output impedance (so 4 to 1) and they sound great.
  
 Here is an open box Beyerdynamic T90 headphone for $250.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/302145606176?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 Really nice clarity


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That Turtle Beach HD audio converter looks pretty swell. I have doubts on it passing 4k/60 and HDR. I guess that doesn't matter for the 1080p only consoles.


----------



## raband

HDMI to the TV - HDMI out of the TV for the audio to the converter?


----------



## rudyae86

mad lust envy said:


> That Turtle Beach HD audio converter looks pretty swell. I have doubts on it passing 4k/60 and HDR. I guess that doesn't matter for the 1080p only consoles.




Well PS4 Pro does fake 4k at 30fps..so maybe it can work?


----------



## Yethal

It seems the ModMic 5.0 not only sounds better but was actually made more user-friendly than the previous iterations.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> HDMI to the TV - HDMI out of the TV for the audio to the converter?




Ah, ARC. I forget about that since I have never used it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rudyae86 said:


> Well PS4 Pro does fake 4k at 30fps..so maybe it can work?




Thats not how it works. It is still a 4k/60 signal being sent out. Whether its real or fake doesnt matter. It all is the same for whatever is receiving the signal.

And the Pro does do real 4k/60. Barely, but there are games that do it. Real 4k/30 as well, with games like Last of Us.


----------



## Evshrug

snoochers said:


> I actually have an AVR that offers simulated surround sound. But I have been told that the AVR would not act as a good enough headphone amp through the headphone jack!



HEADPHONE surround? Because I hadn't heard that Onkyo had a headphone DSP that will make headphones seem to create directional audio... usually they just combine L Front and L Rear simply into just a regular L channel, same for right, and crossfeed the center channel 50/50 between the headphone's L/R channels. It's possible the Onkyo has a proprietary Headphone DSP... please tell us with any headphones if it sounds good!



purpleangel said:


> The 62-Ohm AKG 712 are lower Ohm, but are more power hungry then 250-Ohm Beyer headphones.
> Looks like the Onkyo TX-NR636 is a fairly new design.
> How do the AKG K712 sound plugged into the Onkyo?




Agreed with PurpleAngel, the final determining factor is how you feel it sounds after auditioning it.

Planar headphones are unique in that they don't change with output impedance, so that isn't a factor for the HE400i (or Oppo, Fostex, Audeze). The K7xx range of headphones happen to have a practically linear impedance curve, so actually output impedance has very little effect on them either.

What matters more is other factors about the headphone amp section of the Onkyo: total harmonic distortion, where the distortion happens, if it can supply plenty of current at a voltage appropriate for listening volume, if the Onkyo has an apparent sound signature of it's own... the short version, plug it in and test it out. Could be better than you think. A dedicated headphone amp might sound better, but you may feel like the Onkyo is good enough not to bother with trying to find another solution.


----------



## Snoochers

evshrug said:


> HEADPHONE surround? Because I hadn't heard that Onkyo had a headphone DSP that will make headphones seem to create directional audio... usually they just combine L Front and L Rear simply into just a regular L channel, same for right, and crossfeed the center channel 50/50 between the headphone's L/R channels. It's possible the Onkyo has a proprietary Headphone DSP... please tell us with any headphones if it sounds good!
> Agreed with PurpleAngel, the final determining factor is how you feel it sounds after auditioning it.
> 
> Planar headphones are unique in that they don't change with output impedance, so that isn't a factor for the HE400i (or Oppo, Fostex, Audeze). The K7xx range of headphones happen to have a practically linear impedance curve, so actually output impedance has very little effect on them either.
> ...


 
 hmm that is a good point. It is called "Theatre Dimensional", which makes virtual surround with "two speakers". I had assumed it would work with headphones, but perhaps that was a bad assumption.
  
 I will audition them in the AVR and will report back. One issue is I am new to hi-fi and can't tell if it sounds good or not lol.
  
 I just checked and was surprised to learn that the AKG 712s have a relatively flat impedance curve, that is re-assuring.


----------



## Evshrug

Got any headphones at all right now?

You'll know if it sounds good, if:
You get goosebumps
Your spine tingles in a pleasant way
You might laugh out loud
You find yourself keeping time with the beat
You lose track of time trying out different tracks
You lose track of time just letting music play on shuffle
You can hear many instruments at the same time, no one instrument drowns out and hides others
You feel happy


----------



## Snoochers

Yeah I'll throw in my Bose QC15 for a life changing experience ! Lol


----------



## TeeReQs

Didn't realize the new PS4 and Xbox don't have optical ports. That's a bummer for most surround devices.


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> Didn't realize the new PS4 and Xbox don't have optical ports. That's a bummer for most surround devices.




At least the Pro does and (I'm assuming) the Scorpio will, as well. But really, there should be a console friendly device with audio HDMI by now that won't cost $1000+. Seems like most surround sound companies are just concentrating on their own headsets rather than making a universal device.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Got any headphones at all right now?
> 
> You'll know if it sounds good, if:
> You get goosebumps
> ...


 

 That implies any headphones are good if I have enough vodka.


teereqs said:


> Didn't realize the new PS4 and Xbox don't have optical ports. That's a bummer for most surround devices.


 
 Most TVs have optical outs that can be used to pass the audio signal from the HDMI in port.


----------



## mbyrnes

teereqs said:


> Didn't realize the new PS4 and Xbox don't have optical ports. That's a bummer for most surround devices.




Every Xbox made has included an optical out, including the Xbox One S. Sony dropped the optical out on the slim, and it was a stupid move.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> That implies any headphones are good if I have enough vodka.
> Most TVs have optical outs that can be used to pass the audio signal from the HDMI in port.




The huge problem is the majority of HDTVs cannot pass a 5.1 signal, only stereo. If the tuner in the TV is used, it can pass DD. I know my Panasonic plasma will not, and the LG in my bedroom cannot. May have to buy an AVR that can pull the audio from HDMI and send it out optical.


----------



## Sonikku13

mbyrnes said:


> Every Xbox made has included an optical out, including the Xbox One S. Sony dropped the optical out on the slim, and it was a stupid move.


 
 My Xbox 360 E doesn't have an optical out, and that was a bummer. But they're old.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> The huge problem is the majority of HDTVs cannot pass a 5.1 signal, only stereo. If the tuner in the TV is used, it can pass DD. I know my Panasonic plasma will not, and the LG in my bedroom cannot. May have to buy an AVR that can pull the audio from HDMI and send it out optical.


 

 I know for sure Bravias do. Instead of an AVR, a simple HDMI audio extractor will do.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> I know for sure Bravias do. Instead of an AVR, a simple HDMI audio extractor will do.




Didn't know they even existed!


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> I know for sure Bravias do. Instead of an AVR, a simple HDMI audio extractor will do.



Yeah, well it would have to be both an HDMI audio extractor and a Dolby Digital encoder. Unless the PS4 Slim could be set to output/bitstream Dolby through HDMI instead of taking advantage of the LPCM?


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Yeah, well it would have to be both an HDMI audio extractor and a Dolby Digital encoder. Unless the PS4 Slim could be set to output/bitstream Dolby through HDMI instead of taking advantage of the LPCM?


 

 Regular PS4 can be set to output Dolby Digital via HDMI so I guess the Slim can too. THat's the way I have my X7 hooked up. HDMI to Bravia TV, optical out from the TV to X7.


----------



## Zyker

I think my a900x is not long for this world... It's had a hard life. Any suggestions on a replacement/upgrade for $400 or less? It needs to be closed back, as it bothers my wife. I'm also currently running it through a Sound Blaster ZX.


----------



## Sam21

HE400i for sound
 MA900 for comfort
  
 EDIT: oops , you want a closed back.
  
 try TH-X00 from massdrop.


----------



## Zyker

Do you think I'd need any kind of amp for the TH-X00? A Schiit Fulla 2, for example?


----------



## PurpleAngel

zyker said:


> I think my a900x is not long for this world... It's had a hard life. Any suggestions on a replacement/upgrade for $400 or less? It needs to be closed back, as it bothers my wife. I'm also currently running it through a Sound Blaster ZX.


 
  
 Check out the Beyerdynamic T70 headphones, there is some good prices for used ones on eBay.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This video of what just happened to me sums of my feelings of this game. A huge time waster with no payoff.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e2lXHcgh7A][/VIDEO]

90+ hours into the game, and 40 minutes into this basically 2 hour fight, THIS happens. Warped me away from the battle zone = 40 minutes gone. That was the cue for me to stop playing this game.


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> This video of what just happened to me sums of my feelings of this game. A huge time waster with no payoff.
> 
> 90+ hours into the game, and 40 minutes into this basically 2 hour fight, THIS happens. Warped me away from the battle zone = 40 minutes gone. That was the cue for me to stop playing this game.


 
 I don't get it. Does that end the battle? I haven't started playing yet, but man, if I spend 90+ hours playing a game I tend to enjoy it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

This battle is about 2 hours long give or take. No way around it, unless you are some super optimal god. The game warped me too far from the battle as if I ran away. It causes the fight to end, and you have to restart from the very beginning. So because the game glithced me away, I lost a huge chunk of time for nothing.

I enjoyed the good parts of the game. Unfortunately, the good parts to me, where over very quickly, and everything became fetch quest tedium from hour 1 to hour 90. I did it because I told myself I'd give the game a fair chance. And I certainly did. I'm missing just a few side dungeons (the last one took me many, many hours), when the others where like 40 minutes. This game doesn't respect your time, I assure you. Got to level 99 just off the endless number of fetch questing. I didn't grind ONE bit. Even with all this, I have a zillion hunts to go, and apparently the last long dungeon I did is nothing compared to the one I was going to tackle next. I'm FF-ed out.


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> This battle is about 2 hours long give or take. No way around it, unless you are some super optimal god. The game warped me too far from the battle as if I ran away. It causes the fight to end, and you have to restart from the very beginning. So because the game glithced me away, I lost a huge chunk of time for nothing.
> 
> I enjoyed the good parts of the game. Unfortunately, the good parts to me, where over very quickly, and everything became fetch quest tedium from hour 1 to hour 90. I did it because I told myself I'd give the game a fair chance. And I certainly did. I'm missing just a few side dungeons (the last one took me many, many hours), when the others where like 40 minutes. This game doesn't respect your time, I assure you. Got to level 99 just off the endless number of fetch questing. I didn't grind ONE bit. Even with all this, I have a zillion hunts to go, and apparently the last long dungeon I did is nothing compared to the one I was going to tackle next. I'm FF-ed out.


 
 Dang, that sucks. What ever happened to the FF of old where you couldn't run away from a boss fight. I'm still going to sit down and play this to see how I feel about it. I finished TLOU: Remastered a week or so ago. What an excellent story driven game that was. i was very impressed with the graphics, gameplay and story. Anybody tried the multiplayer?


----------



## Skully2016

​Hello everyone, new member here and for the most part new to hifi world.  I recently picked up a new Dragonfly Red as a portable DAC/Amp and I am looking for some headphone advice, this thread has been awesome in providing solid information for gaming purposes and I have narrowed my headphone purchase to a few different sets.  I was hoping to get some advice from individuals using the sets I am looking at, ideally who play some of the same types of games as I do.  Current usage is 70% gaming, 30% music from a variety of sources Apple Lossless, Spotify primarily.
  
 Beyerdynamic DT770/DT880/DT990/ perhaps the T1 gen 1 (I think I have a decent price line on one)
 Hifiman HE 400/HE560
  
 While both the HE560/T1's are just in my price range I am not sure I would notice substantial differences in audio quality for the primary games I play and music I listen to.
  
 Games Played Currently
 Tom Clancy's The Division
 Battlefield 4
 Witcher 3
 Civilization 6
 Tyranny
  
  
 Music (broad spectrum)
 Rap/Hip Hop (J. Cole, Kanye West, K Flay)
 Punk (NoFX, Rancid)
 Indie/Pop (typically female vocalists like Lana Del Ray, Florence and the Machine, Fiona Apple)
 60's, 70's, and 80's Classic Rock
  
 I live in Edmonton, Alberta and I will be testing the Td's and HE560's with my MBP and the new Dragonfly Red tomorrow but I am wondering if I am missing any potential contenders?
  
 Any assistance the community can provide would be awesome!!
  
 Thank you,
  
 Skully


----------



## Snoochers

Hey man fellow Canadian here. I just bought the AKG 712s last night after a boatload of research. My budget was significantly higher, but ended up deciding on these because the reviews on these for gaming and their comfort are excellent. I am even playing the same games as you, including Tyranny! The 712s can be gotten for a great 300CAD on amazon.com right now from some obscure UK seller. 
  
 I would also consider the Hifiman 400i (which I am guessing is what you meant with 400?). They can be gotten for a fantastic 250$USD I think on Amazon.com, which is a steal for these. A bit less comfy maybe but clearly phenomenal headphones. Perhaps better for music than gaming.

 Can't go wrong with either. I would not think the 560 are a worthy upgrade over the 400i, but if you have the money perhaps go for it. Not sure if difference would be very noticeable, maybe 10% better, not sure.


----------



## Skully2016

Thanks for the quick reply, I appreciate the information, I wills see about auditioning the AKG-712 tomorrow as well, any other suggestions would be awesome. 
  
 Thanks again,
  
 Skully


----------



## lenroot77

skully2016 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, I appreciate the information, I wills see about auditioning the AKG-712 tomorrow as well, any other suggestions would be awesome.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Skully




If the k712 is a bit more than you can afford, you can always look for a used pair of the K7xx's here on the classifieds. They can be had for 150-185 dollars and are almost identical.


----------



## rufurufu

The Fidelio x2s are a great option too (based on my research).
 I'm after a headphone with a good fun/competitive ratio and so far these options look good: Fidelio X2 / DT990 / T90 / K712
 dont think you can go wrong with these.
 I'm new to this so do your research and share with us your findings
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 Best of luck.
  
 srry for my english


----------



## illram

I second the 400i recommendation. Those are my main gaming headphones currently.
  
 Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snoochers* /img/forum/go_quote.gif
> 
> Hey man fellow Canadian here. I just bought the AKG 712s last night after a boatload of research. My budget was significantly higher, but ended up deciding on these because the reviews on these for gaming and their comfort are excellent. I am even playing the same games as you, including Tyranny! The 712s can be gotten for a great 300CAD on amazon.com right now from some obscure UK seller.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Let us know if you get those. I got a price alert for the 712's and it was because that UK seller is seriously undercutting everyone's price, but they are a new seller with 0 reviews and shipping was not until late January/early February! I'm skeptical but I hope it works out for you.


----------



## Sonikku13

So, I'm thinking about a DAC, and I've narrowed it down to the Modi Multibit, Bifrost Multibit, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil... Yes, I want a Schiit R2R DAC for gaming, but music on the side helps.
  
 Games I currently play:
 Final Fantasy XIV
 Battlefield 1
 Skyrim: Special Edition
 Civilization VI
  
 I'd say I want it mostly for gaming. Final Fantasy XIV, Skyrim: Special Edition, and Civilization VI are obviously where I want immersion, but Battlefield 1 is where I want that competitive edge. I'd prefer the competitive edge, even though I play more Final Fantasy XIV than Battlefield 1 at the moment. Music on the side helps too.


----------



## Etrips

So for PC gaming, I am thinking about either getting a K7XX, AD900X, or a Fidelio X2. Do I need to get a sound card, DAC, and or AMP with any of those headphones? Primary use would be for gaming.


----------



## lenroot77

etrips said:


> So for PC gaming, I am thinking about either getting a K7XX, AD900X, or a Fidelio X2. Do I need to get a sound card, DAC, and or AMP with any of those headphones? Primary use would be for gaming.




For Pc gaming I would go with the Creative Omni for all of those.


----------



## Snoochers

Mine is easy Jan or even end of the month (doubtful). I'll report back. Worse that can happen is I get a full refund


----------



## NewVegasBaby

sonikku13 said:


> So, I'm thinking about a DAC, and I've narrowed it down to the Modi Multibit, Bifrost Multibit, Gungnir Multibit, and Yggdrasil... Yes, I want a Schiit R2R DAC for gaming, but music on the side helps.
> 
> Games I currently play:
> Final Fantasy XIV
> ...


 


 A regular modi 2 should be fine tbh . Dacs have fast decreasing gains from there on.
 What headphones do you have ? You might need an AMP too if you dont have one.


----------



## Sonikku13

newvegasbaby said:


> A regular modi 2 should be fine tbh . Dacs have fast decreasing gains from there on.
> What headphones do you have ? You might need an AMP too if you dont have one.


 
 I will be using the amp and DAC with AKG K7XX headphones. I currently have an Aune T1 Mk.2 as a stopgap, but I'd inevitably want a Schiit stack.


----------



## Evshrug

Schiit isn't the only game in town, not even the only option for R2R DACs anymore, but I do like multibit DACs from experience. D/S DACs are good too though, like the Mojo I got about a week ago.

Nice thing about the Omni, you can use it by itself, or connect it to your Aune, or just use it for the processing and software while connecting the optical output to another DAC/Amp.


----------



## PurpleAngel

etrips said:


> So for PC gaming, I am thinking about either getting a K7XX, AD900X, or a Fidelio X2. Do I need to get a sound card, DAC, and or AMP with any of those headphones? Primary use would be for gaming.


 
  
 Assuming this is for FPS gaming on a Windows PC.
 I would go for the ATH-AD900X and a Sound Blaster Z sound card.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

sonikku13 said:


> I will be using the amp and DAC with AKG K7XX headphones. I currently have an Aune T1 Mk.2 as a stopgap, but I'd inevitably want a Schiit stack.


 
 You can just go modi 2 / magni 2 for sure with those headphones.


----------



## lenroot77

newvegasbaby said:


> You can just go modi 2 / magni 2 for sure with those headphones.




If he doesnt want processed surround sound....


----------



## NewVegasBaby

lenroot77 said:


> If he doesnt want processed surround sound....


 
  
 If he does he can go soundblaster Z or xonar DX , schitt magni.
  
 I wouldnt trade a worse DAC for surround sound capabilities myself If i was gonna buy a new DAC , but I have a xonar DX myself and it is a very , very capable DAC and it has doubly headphone which I use for gaming.

 So I can recommend that.


----------



## DaemonSire

For gaming, I use my Xonar DG and send the signal via Optical Out into my external DAC.  This way I get the dolby headphone processing but use a better external DAC as well.  Works really well for me.


----------



## TeeReQs

That's the way to  do it ^. You can get a DSP that does DH/CMSS-3D/SBX for cheap and buy a dac/amp combo to have the best of both worlds.. At least on PC. Or, just buy an X7 and say hello to nice clean desktop with minimal wires.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

daemonsire said:


> For gaming, I use my Xonar DG and send the signal via Optical Out into my external DAC.  This way I get the dolby headphone processing but use a better external DAC as well.  Works really well for me.


 
  
 Thats a way to go about it .
  
 I have thought about this and I think i will keep my xonar DX as an DAC . It has a very good chip in it and DACS have less of an impact than people think tbh.
  
 I am gonna get a pair of k712 pros and an amp . If I find the DX insuffecient I will buy a dedicated DAC but I doubt this will be the case.


----------



## TeeReQs

newvegasbaby said:


> Thats a way to go about it .
> 
> I have thought about this and I think i will keep my xonar DX as an DAC . It has a very good chip in it and DACS have less of an impact than people think tbh.
> 
> I am gonna get a pair of k712 pros and an amp . If I find the DX insuffecient I will buy a dedicated DAC but I doubt this will be the case.


 
 Good point. If you already have a sound card, test out the built in DAC before springing for an external one. Chances are it will suffice. Now, if you are hearing background noise, then an upgrade might be worthwhile. That $100 saved on a Modi could go towards a nice pair of cans.


----------



## NewVegasBaby

teereqs said:


> Good point. If you already have a sound card, test out the built in DAC before springing for an external one. Chances are it will suffice. Now, if you are hearing background noise, then an upgrade might be worthwhile. That $100 saved on a Modi could go towards a nice pair of cans.


 


 Never heard any noise tbh . To be fair I havent tried amplifying the signal which might reveal some noise and imperfections I wasnt hearing on the card .
  
 If thats the case i will just get a modi .

 I need to try it out first for sure before spending perhaps unnecessary money.


----------



## Knightfury

I've spent a good few hours reading back through the thread here trying to digest and get a little direction. There's a lot of good suggestions that meet my criteria (especially in the direction of fairly high end Beyers that are kind of my current direction/thought/desire) but more often than not, they're generally out of my price range.

 My budget is a little restrictive. I'm currently in the process of pinning down a £40 sound blaster omni, which I think can drive stuff generally up into the 250ohm range, which covers a decent chunk of headphones in my price range (and was happy to see it's a fairly well regarded... DAC here too).

 I was pretty set on a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770 pro's but seeing the notes on page 1 here, they don't seem to be quite as awesome as I thought for positional audio/soundstage. "Muddy bass" being a general no-no. Quite disappointed as I thought I was close.

 I'm after closed/semi closed from a "wife sleeping" and sound leakage kind of angle. With that in mind and an absolutely "on fire, screaming" max budget of £100, would my best choice be the AKG K612Pro? I'm basing the £100 on being able to probably pick up open box/etc for around £70 so, while I don't mind in the slightest, second hand, it doesn't really bring anything else into range.
  
 Apologies for the long "so gai's wut shuld I buy" type post, but I really want to make it clear I've tried my best and just need a final nudge towards my goal.
  
 Also, to offer a little something back a google for "DT770 pro mic mod imgur" will net a super simple but (imo) quite acceptable method of adding a mic to... well, quite a few headphones really (it's hardly rocket science but not really a direction I'd considered - was stuck for a while looking for headphones with a 3.5mm jack to plug a v-moda or similar in to).


----------



## nicobombai

knightfury said:


> I've spent a good few hours reading back through the thread here trying to digest and get a little direction. There's a lot of good suggestions that meet my criteria (especially in the direction of fairly high end Beyers that are kind of my current direction/thought/desire) but more often than not, they're generally out of my price range.
> 
> My budget is a little restrictive. I'm currently in the process of pinning down a £40 sound blaster omni, which I think can drive stuff generally up into the 250ohm range, which covers a decent chunk of headphones in my price range (and was happy to see it's a fairly well regarded... DAC here too).
> 
> ...


 
  
 Go for AKG K550/553 maybe? its closed back and don't require an amp afaik. Sounds balance between treble and bass, less bass than dt770 and have a good sound stage for a closed back, BUUUUUUUUUUT there's is no removable cable sooo you need to slap on a modmic if you want to


----------



## DoctaCosmos

daemonsire said:


> For gaming, I use my Xonar DG and send the signal via Optical Out into my external DAC.  This way I get the dolby headphone processing but use a better external DAC as well.  Works really well for me.


 
A normal dac won't decide Dolby hp though will it? Every time I've tried it I get white noise


----------



## Knightfury

nicobombai said:


> Go for AKG K550/553 maybe? its closed back and don't require an amp afaik. Sounds balance between treble and bass, less bass than dt770 and have a good sound stage for a closed back, BUUUUUUUUUUT there's is no removable cable sooo you need to slap on a modmic if you want to


 


 Was just headed back here with the afterthought that with my dearest lady wife being Greek (Greeks are loud) there's the odd occasion I must don headphones to drown out her screa... I mean talking to her folks via skype.

 I've also (about a minute ago) just discovered the K550/553's as well. I take it these would be about my best option? (Basically - less than £100, closed back, best positional audio I can get for the price. SB omni driving).

 I can see me just going with the "no ****'s given" stereo extension lead somehow zip-tied to the headphone option to be honest.


----------



## nicobombai

knightfury said:


> Was just headed back here with the afterthought that with my dearest lady wife being Greek (Greeks are loud) there's the odd occasion I must don headphones to drown out her screa... I mean talking to her folks via skype.
> 
> I've also (about a minute ago) just discovered the K550/553's as well. I take it these would be about my best option?
> 
> I can see me just going with the "no ****'s given" stereo extension lead somehow zip-tied to the headphone option to be honest.


 
  
 Dem descriptions tho LOL
  
 Hmm, i'm using DT770 myself, they sound fun and immersive, but when the bass kicks in some details are sucked out sometimes.
 K550/553 would be a good option, i might get those later on too. There's a sound demo on youtube by Z-reviews (he's not a credible source for reviews, but atleast in the sound demo, you have an idea on what you're going to get from the headphone)


----------



## Knightfury

Also noted the (K553) detachable cable mod elsewhere here. That might be a winner. I'm not afraid of a bit of soldering  . There's the v-moda and whatever the "ket-direct" mic is (similar idea) too which are then just a plug in away from being perfect.

 Anyway, I'll leave it there pending other replies. I don't want to clutter this (so far very educational) thread with my specific ask. Tyvm for replies and ideas


----------



## Etrips

So it looks like I have been recommended three different sound cards for my PC, the Sound Blaster Z, Creative Omni, and the ASUS Xonar. Is there any real difference between the models?


----------



## TeeReQs

etrips said:


> So it looks like I have been recommended three different sound cards for my PC, the Sound Blaster Z, Creative Omni, and the ASUS Xonar. Is there any real difference between the models?


 
 If you're after virtual surround you need to decide which flavor you like most. SBX or Dolby Headphone in this case.


----------



## Yethal

doctacosmos said:


> A normal dac won't decide Dolby hp though will it? Every time I've tried it I get white noise


 

 Won't decode Dolby Digital because it's acompressed 5.1 signal. But it will decode Dolby Headphone as that's a simple stereo LPCM with positional cues baked in.


----------



## PurpleAngel

etrips said:


> So it looks like I have been recommended three different sound cards for my PC, the Sound Blaster Z, Creative Omni, and the ASUS Xonar. Is there any real difference between the models?


 
  
 If your looking at getting a sound card, for use with headphones and have no interest in buying an external head amp.
 Then get the Sound Blaster Z sound card, nice DAC chip half-way decent headphone amplifier and is comes with SBX Headphone surround sound.
 If you interest in buying an external head amp, then get the Asus Xonar DX sound card (and an external head amp).
 Both the SB-Z and Xonar DX come with a nice CS4398 DAC chip.
  
 If your looking to spend as little as possible, then get the Asus Xonar DG or DGX sound card.
 The DG/DGX comes with a headphone amp that can drive lower impedance (Ohm) headphones.
  
 I have a personal preferance for Asus Xonar sound cards.


----------



## Knightfury

purpleangel said:


> If your looking at getting a sound card, for use with headphones and have no interest in buying an external head amp.
> Then get the Sound Blaster Z sound card, nice DAC chip half-way decent headphone amplifier and is comes with SBX Headphone surround sound.
> If you interest in buying an external head amp, then get the Asus Xonar DX sound card (and an external head amp).
> Both the SB-Z and Xonar DX come with a nice CS4398 DAC chip.
> ...


 


 Doesn't the Omni have pretty much the same hardware and SBX headphone as the SB-Z? Asking as I'm on the edge of buying one or the other.

 There's a minor niggle at the moment with the Xonar cards and windows 10 where you get a memory error on shutdown (basically win 10 unloads the xonar driver before stuff like skype can play it's logout sounds. Skype goes to talk to the sound card to play it's shutdown sound, gets a "memory location doesn't have anything about this sound card you're asking for" error. It usually finishes shutdown but occasionally it'll pause until you "ok" the error. 
 Super, super minor issue but with all the good things said about the Omni I was leaning that way for a relatively cheap sidegrade/possible upgrade.


----------



## PurpleAngel

knightfury said:


> Doesn't the Omni have pretty much the same hardware and SBX headphone as the SB-Z? Asking as I'm on the edge of buying one or the other.
> 
> There's a minor niggle at the moment with the Xonar cards and windows 10 where you get a memory error on shutdown (basically win 10 unloads the xonar driver before stuff like skype can play it's logout sounds. Skype goes to talk to the sound card to play it's shutdown sound, gets a "memory location doesn't have anything about this sound card you're asking for" error. It usually finishes shutdown but occasionally it'll pause until you "ok" the error.
> Super, super minor issue but with all the good things said about the Omni I was leaning that way for a relatively cheap sidegrade/possible upgrade.


 
  
 As far as I can tell, the SB Omni does not come with as good hardware as the SB-Z card.


----------



## DaemonSire

doctacosmos said:


> A normal dac won't decide Dolby hp though will it? Every time I've tried it I get white noise


 
@Yethal beat me to it.  He's right on the money.  Dolby Digital can't be but Dolby Headphone is essentially a DSP that mixes in the positional cues to stereo for headphones.  The DAC just sees it as a regular stereo signal.
  
 In my setup, I have my DAC connected to my PC in two ways.  First, I have the USB from the DAC going to my PC.  I use this for music only (Foobar) to get the best sound there.  Then I have my Xonar DG with Dolby Headphone send via optical into my DAC.  I use this for movies/games.  This way I don't have to switch DH on and off.  Just switch the input on my DAC and I'm set. 
  
  


etrips said:


> So it looks like I have been recommended three different sound cards for my PC, the Sound Blaster Z, Creative Omni, and the ASUS Xonar. Is there any real difference between the models?


 
 I haven't used the others, but I have no complaints at all with my Xonar.  I grabbed the cheapest one I could get (Xonar DG) since I knew I was going to just use the optical out to a dedicated DAC and Amp anyways.  If you want to use it as a DAC going into an external amp, or use the built-in amp as well, then @PurpleAngel gave you lots of good info there.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

So is there anyway to get My Xbox one to output Dolby hp to my external dac? Or does Xbox one only support Dolby digital? If this is the case is the creative x7 the only way to get Dolby hp to an external dac when using Xbox one?


----------



## DaemonSire

doctacosmos said:


> So is there anyway to get My Xbox one to output Dolby hp to my external dac? Or does Xbox one only support Dolby digital? If this is the case is the creative x7 the only way to get Dolby hp to an external dac when using Xbox one?


 
 I'm not 100% but pretty sure that Playstation and Xbox don't do anything with Dolby Headphone.  They would just output Dolby Digital.
  
 You would need to send that signal into something like an X7, Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS, etc. that does that decoding for you.  What they do is take the Dolby Digital 5.1/7.1 signal and do a conversion to stereo for your headphones to hear.
  
 I don't have an Xbox, but for my PS3, I have the Playstation configured to use Dolby 5.1 and output over optical.  Then I have a Tritton AX720 decoder that takes the optical out from the PS3 and does the decoding for me.  I then send that signal to my external Amp.
  
 You'll need something that will do the conversion for you.  Normal DACs (Schiit, Audio-GD, etc.) won't do that.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

That's what I'm asking if the x7 is the only external device that will decode into Dolby headphone and then also be able to send the signal back out via optical like how your pc sound cards are doing it


----------



## Knightfury

purpleangel said:


> As far as I can tell, the SB Omni does not come with as good hardware as the SB-Z card.


 
  
 Hmmm, internal it is then 

 As you're mentioned as a good source, if you were in my shoes then, would you just put an external DAC on the optical out of the Xonar DX I have and be done with it?

 You can probably tell I'm new to this in more ways than just "new member". I'll be doing my research but my "journey" with the headphone has been a good month of thinking, building up for a purchase then spotting a last minute flaw that's put me back on the hunt again. A bit of a shortcut on the "what should I drive it with" would save me some considerable headscratching.

 As a.... completely random thought. Would the control box of Logitech Z-680 speakers be remotely useful? There IS a headphone jack on them, they do take a (regular) dolby encoded signal so if the xonar is outputting (much "simpler") dolby headphone, in stereo, over the optical, I'm guessing the headphone jack on the front would be a suitable place to receive it, at that point there MUST have been digital to analogue going on somewhere? 
 It's an amp too of course...
 They're currently plugged in to the optical out on the Xonar for when I want full speakers.
 Don't know how good the DAC would be of course...

 edit: 16bit/48KHz but apparently "it sounds nice" and it's "good"  Totally hadn't thought of using that at all.
 Does the DAC need to be able to handle a dolby headphone signal via optical and encode it correctly to analogue or is that all part of the original optical signal? (Hunting some info rather than asking so many silly questions but feel free to help me along).

 Edit2: Ok, done my reading. So yeah, the signal sent from the optical with DH in it is just decoded to analogue and it's no different (other than amplification) to having the headphones plugged into the soundcard. So...


 Simple easy, final question: I only really NEED headphones, don't I? (Still may get the SB-Z for better positional audio).


----------



## PurpleAngel

doctacosmos said:


> So is there anyway to get My Xbox one to output Dolby hp to my external dac? Or does Xbox one only support Dolby digital? If this is the case is the Creative X7 the only way to get Dolby hp to an external dac when using Xbox one?


 
 "Dolby Digital" is a somewhat generic term that covers one or more features of Dolby
  
 Astro Mix-amp or Turtle Beach Earforce DSS can be connected to the optical output port on a gaming console.
 Dolby can encode/compress up to 6-channels (5.1) of digital audio, to be sent thru optical, to a Mix-amp or Earforce DSS.
 To provide Dolby Headphone.


----------



## PurpleAngel

doctacosmos said:


> That's what I'm asking if the x7 is the only external device that will decode into Dolby headphone and then also be able to send the signal back out via optical like how your pc sound cards are doing it


 
 DDL (Dolby Digital Live) is what encodes (and decodes?) S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) digital audio, it is just one feature of Dolby Digital.
  
 The X7 does not decode "Dolby Headphone", the Dolby feature (DDL) that comes with the X7 just decodes/un-compress the (encoded) digital audio to separate PCM audio streams (up to 6-channels).
 Those six sparate channels can then be converted to to SBX Headphone surround sound on the X7.
 So Creative does not licence Dolby Headphone from Dolby, as Creative Labs has their own SBX Headphone surround sound.
 Astro licences (or use to licence) Dolby Headphone from Dolby.
 Turtle Beach licences (or use to licence) Dolby Headphone from Dolby.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

I guess I screwed up when I wrote decode and not encodes lol. But I see what you're saying. So technically there is no device that converts into Dolby hp and then is able to send the Dolby hp signal out via optical. However the x7 does accept the Dolby digital signal that the Xbox one puts out but converts it to their own headphone surround mode and is able to be sent out to an external dac via optical cable? How is the creative SBX headphone surround processing? Comparable or favorable to DH?


----------



## TeeReQs

doctacosmos said:


> I guess I screwed up when I wrote decode and not encodes lol. But I see what you're saying. So technically there is no device that converts into Dolby hp and then is able to send the Dolby hp signal out via optical. However the x7 does accept the Dolby digital signal that the Xbox one puts out but converts it to their own headphone surround mode and is able to be sent out to an external dac via optical cable? How is the creative SBX headphone surround processing? Comparable or favorable to DH?


 
 In terms of pure sound quality, SBX sounds cleaner and more immersive. I think it does just as good of a job as DH or better for positioning without all the reverb. I tried going back to my mixamp after the X7 and I didn't like it. Sounded like my head was in a fishbowl. This was with the mixamp double amped with a O2 as well.


----------



## mbyrnes

I also prefer SBX to Dolby Headphone for the same reasons. I really like I can tweak the sound to my liking if I want as well. The EQ is a really nice feature to have.


----------



## TeeReQs

Very true. A lot more settings to mess with on the X7 compared to something like the Mixamp in terms of console gaming. Some people still prefer DH though. It's a Ford/Chevy type of thing.


----------



## FlexLikeThat

purpleangel said:


> DDL (Dolby Digital Live) is what encodes (and decodes?) S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) digital audio, it is just one feature of Dolby Digital.
> 
> The X7 does not decode "Dolby Headphone", the Dolby feature (DDL) that comes with the X7 just decodes/un-compress the (encoded) digital audio to separate PCM audio streams (up to 6-channels).
> Those six sparate channels can then be converted to to SBX Headphone surround sound on the X7.
> ...




Along with posts from @Yethal in the X7 thread. This post perfectly answers what I needed to know. Thank you sir. 

Just ordered the X7 as an upgrade to my Mixamp. Currently using HD558s but will be upgrading to some K712s to go with the X7 when it arrives.


----------



## mbyrnes

Did you ever hook your Astro into your X7? With my setup it would be difficult to do (Long optical cable across the room to a desk next to my chair). I'd have to find and rerun the Astro cable first.


----------



## PurpleAngel

doctacosmos said:


> I guess I screwed up when I wrote decode and not encodes lol. But I see what you're saying. So technically there is no device that converts into Dolby hp and then is able to send the Dolby hp signal out via optical. However the x7 does accept the Dolby digital signal that the Xbox one puts out but converts it to their own headphone surround mode and is able to be sent out to an external dac via optical cable? How is the creative SBX headphone surround processing? Comparable or favorable to DH?


 
  
 With a PC, you can get a sound card that can send Dolby Headphone out the optical port.
 But I guess a gaming consoles can not create Dolby Headphone.
 Might be some external sound cards, that work with gaming consoles, might output headphone surround sound, thru optical?
 Some people prefer SBX Headphone, some prefer Dolby Headphone.


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> Did you ever hook your Astro into your X7? With my setup it would be difficult to do (Long optical cable across the room to a desk next to my chair). I'd have to find and rerun the Astro cable first.


 
 I never did, and actually ended up selling it a few weeks ago to a member on here.


----------



## BeyondMaxPower

teereqs said:


> I never did, and actually ended up selling it a few weeks ago to a member on here.


 
 I'll have to give it a try at some point. Right now I have my parents, their dog, plus my girlfriend and her son in the house, with our dog. I live in a small apartment in Philly so space is at a premium. My parents go back to Florida in early January. I am curious how the X7 can clean up the DH from the Astro. I have read that it is a pretty good improvement with other DACs, so maybe it will really help. Who knows, but I would have a better handle on what solution could work for others if the quality is improved to get them closer together. I'll update this thread when I can get some time. Ugh, the holidays are great, but my Parents are killing me right now. I have the Sparkos OP amps to install, and I have no idea when I will get the time to test the different setups with them. I am not a patient person, but I don't want to rush it since I believe I am the only person with an X7 and the SS3601s and SS3602s. I want to get a really good grasp of what the differences are with the SS3601 swap, which is where Yental and a couple others are. Then swap the SS3602s and see how much further it improves the sound. If I can get them in and out without issue, I'll test them with just the SS3602s. 
  
 I really just want to do the entire swap and be done with it, but I realize that a $200 upgrade isn't something a lot of people can just do. So if I can help a few others out in the process, I will.


----------



## Yethal

beyondmaxpower said:


> I'll have to give it a try at some point. Right now I have my parents, their dog, plus my girlfriend and her son in the house, with our dog. I live in a small apartment in Philly so space is at a premium. My parents go back to Florida in early January. I am curious how the X7 can clean up the DH from the Astro. I have read that it is a pretty good improvement with other DACs, so maybe it will really help. Who knows, but I would have a better handle on what solution could work for others if the quality is improved to get them closer together. I'll update this thread when I can get some time. Ugh, the holidays are great, but my Parents are killing me right now. I have the Sparkos OP amps to install, and I have no idea when I will get the time to test the different setups with them. I am not a patient person, but I don't want to rush it since I believe I am the only person with an X7 and the SS3601s and SS3602s. I want to get a really good grasp of what the differences are with the SS3601 swap, which is where Yental and a couple others are. Then swap the SS3602s and see how much further it improves the sound. If I can get them in and out without issue, I'll test them with just the SS3602s.
> 
> I really just want to do the entire swap and be done with it, but I realize that a $200 upgrade isn't something a lot of people can just do. So if I can help a few others out in the process, I will.


 

 Actually, @mbyrnes over at the X7 thread also has both the SS3601 and SS3602. It might be interesting to compare your impressions with his.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

teereqs said:


> In terms of pure sound quality, SBX sounds cleaner and more immersive. I think it does just as good of a job as DH or better for positioning without all the reverb. I tried going back to my mixamp after the X7 and I didn't like it. Sounded like my head was in a fishbowl. This was with the mixamp double amped with a O2 as well.




More immersive is highly debatable. I find DH much, much more immersive and better at accurate locating sound cues. I do agree on the reverb.


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7 vs. Mixamp is unfair as the Mixamp's quality does not represent DH well enough. When I played with DH for a year or more it was via a STX and the difference to the mixamp was worlds apart.
  
 Compare both on a similar dac/amp level and you have a better comparison.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> Actually, @mbyrnes
> over at the X7 thread also has both the SS3601 and SS3602. It might be interesting to compare your impressions with his.




Well I apparently have two accounts here, that's me as well. Logged in one account on my phone, the other on my computer. Didn't even realize it until you pointed it out.


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> More immersive is highly debatable. I find DH much, much more immersive and better at accurate locating sound cues. I do agree on the reverb.


 
 I'm just talking X7 vs Mixamp. The X7 just flat out sounds better than the Mixamp (even double amped), which, to me, provides a much better listening experience therefore being more immersive. The only other devices I've used with DH are a DGX and a DSS2. The DSS2 doesn't sound any better than the Mixamp to me, and it's been so long since I've used the DGX I couldn't tell you if it was any better. My experience going back and forth between the Mixamp and X7 just left me feeling like my head was in a muffled fish bowl with the Mixamp. I used to prefer DH until I did the back to back comparison between the two. I won't argue that locating sound cues is any worse on DH though.
  
@Fegefeuer
 You make a good point. I still would like to try DH piped into an external DAC/Amp combo and see how it fares in comparison.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Well I apparently have two accounts here, that's me as well. Logged in one account on my phone, the other on my computer. Didn't even realize it until you pointed it out.


 

  


fegefeuer said:


> X7 vs. Mixamp is unfair as the Mixamp's quality does not represent DH well enough. When I played with DH for a year or more it was via a STX and the difference to the mixamp was worlds apart.
> 
> Compare both on a similar dac/amp level and you have a better comparison.


 
 DAC comparison might be difficult but amp comparison can be done using X7's line out set to 100% volume and Mixamp's stream out (appearently it carries the DH signal at line level).


----------



## ls13coco

I've had the Asus Xonar Phoebus for about 2 years, I really didn't like DH much and preferred sonic studio.
I now have the X7 and SBX has been a step up for my personal taste.


----------



## Etrips

So I was originally going to settle with the Sound Blaster Z + ATH AD900X, but then I happened to find someone selling their AKG K7XX for a really good price. Now this throws a wrench in my original plans as from my understanding I do need an external amp to power this thing. Now the question I am wondering based on PurpleAngel's post is that I should be getting a Xonar DX + an external amp correct? And I suppose that this isn't the right sub / thread for this question, but what amps should I be looking at in the $100~ price range?


----------



## PurpleAngel

etrips said:


> So I was originally going to settle with the Sound Blaster Z + ATH AD900X, but then I happened to find someone selling their AKG K7XX for a really good price. Now this throws a wrench in my original plans as from my understanding I do need an external amp to power this thing. Now the question I am wondering based on PurpleAngel's post is that I should be getting a Xonar DX + an external amp correct? And I suppose that this isn't the right sub / thread for this question, but what amps should I be looking at in the $100~ price range?


 
 For use with the Xonar DX sound card.
 Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier, $80.


----------



## Etrips

purpleangel said:


> For use with the Xonar DX sound card.
> Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier, $80.


 

 Ohh a tube amp? Is it this thing? https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Audio-V2-Multi-Hybrid-Headphone/dp/B00ADR2DTG


----------



## PurpleAngel

etrips said:


> Ohh a tube amp? Is it this thing? https://www.amazon.com/Bravo-Audio-V2-Multi-Hybrid-Headphone/dp/B00ADR2DTG


 
  
 Same company, but different model.
 This is the one I'm talking about.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/331923005226?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> X7 vs. Mixamp is unfair as the Mixamp's quality does not represent DH well enough. When I played with DH for a year or more it was via a STX and the difference to the mixamp was worlds apart.
> 
> Compare both on a similar dac/amp level and you have a better comparison.




Yeah, a fairer comparison would be the Recon3D vs mixamp.


----------



## TeeReQs

I'm sorry I compared the X7 to a mixamp. I hope you guys can forgive me


----------



## Etrips

purpleangel said:


> Same company, but different model.
> This is the one I'm talking about.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/331923005226?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




Ahh thank you for the recommendation! Is there another alternative? It can be a little bit more expensive if need be, but the Bravo Audio is extremely... loud. Haha


----------



## lenroot77

Anyone play this Life is Strange game? Seems to be on sale everywhere!


----------



## Helvetica bold

https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc
  
 Forgive me if this has been posted but its really interesting, it looks like  Sony is making their own Dolby Atmos headphone tech. 
  
 I wonder how many 3rd party developers will support it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

helvetica bold said:


> https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc
> 
> Forgive me if this has been posted but its really interesting, it looks like  Sony is making their own Dolby Atmos headphone tech.
> 
> I wonder how many 3rd party developers will support it.


 
  
 Guess this is more of a product hype, then something different from what everyone else in gaming console headphone audio is trying to do.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone play this Life is Strange game? Seems to be on sale everywhere!




It's interactive like Heavy Rain and Telltale games, though more complex than the latter. Your decisions matter more. Story is good but way too many small town and high school teenage cliches for me. It was kind of a drag. I walked away feeling like it was "finally over" rather than "man I wish there was more."


----------



## rudyae86

helvetica bold said:


> https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc
> 
> Forgive me if this has been posted but its really interesting, it looks like  Sony is making their own Dolby Atmos headphone tech.
> 
> I wonder how many 3rd party developers will support it.


 
 It has been posted before. At least they are trying to do something about some sort of 3D audio support but this seems to market the headset itself.


----------



## F41LTR41N

It appears the AKG K712 Pro is a nice upgrade from an ATH-AD700x, trading minimal loss of soundstage for more comfort and increased fun / bass. The orange color scheme is rather unfortunate though...
 Do you have any alternative recommendation similar to the K712 Pro, but as strong in the "competitive" / soundstage department?
 What would you recommend to drive these?
 What's a good mic setup if you wish to steer clear of the Modmic solution? Will an AT2020 on a desk mounted arm not pick up mechanical keyboard noises?


----------



## lazyredhead

philips shp9500 with v-moda boom mic is now my favorite gaming headset of all time.

just need to find a dac/amp that will connect to both my pc and ps4, they don't really need any ampification, just that the on board one is pretty meh


----------



## lenroot77

f41ltr41n said:


> It appears the AKG K712 Pro is a nice upgrade from an ATH-AD700x, trading minimal loss of soundstage for more comfort and increased fun / bass. The orange color scheme is rather unfortunate though...
> Do you have any alternative recommendation similar to the K712 Pro, but as strong in the "competitive" / soundstage department?
> What would you recommend to drive these?
> What's a good mic setup if you wish to steer clear of the Modmic solution? Will an AT2020 on a desk mounted arm not pick up mechanical keyboard noises?




Just get the Massdrop K7xx it's arguably the same as the K712. I've owned both of them multiple times and come personally vouch for this. They have the all black color scheme and red/black. These are often on the classifieds for 150-200 if you don't wanna wait on a drop. 

Personally I find these headphones to be the best all around option before jumping up to the HD800.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lenroot77 said:


> Anyone play this Life is Strange game? Seems to be on sale everywhere!




10/10 would Bae again. 

I love this game so much.


----------



## F41LTR41N

lenroot77 said:


> Just get the Massdrop K7xx it's arguably the same as the K712. I've owned both of them multiple times and come personally vouch for this. They have the all black color scheme and red/black. These are often on the classifieds for 150-200 if you don't wanna wait on a drop.
> 
> Personally I find these headphones to be the best all around option before jumping up to the HD800.


 
 What amp would you recommend with the K7xx? Is it worth getting an additional soundcard or would the onboard audio of the Asus Z170I Pro Gaming motherboard do just fine?


----------



## lenroot77

f41ltr41n said:


> What amp would you recommend with the K7xx? Is it worth getting an additional soundcard or would the onboard audio of the Asus Z170 Pro Gaming motherboard do just fine?




I'm not real familar with onboard motherboard audio... maybe someone else could chime in on that.

Personally if you can swing the creative X7 I would go that route. It retails for 400, but is often on sale for 270-300.

After writing the above I realized you might only be PC gaming, if this is the case it's possible there are better PC only sound cards/processors available. Sorry!


----------



## illram

Massdrop 7XX (black) is happening now, also. Shipping begins in early January.


----------



## F41LTR41N

illram said:


> Massdrop 7XX (black) is happening now, also. Shipping begins in early January.


 
  
 Just got done punching in my credit card numbers. ^^


----------



## PurpleAngel

f41ltr41n said:


> What amp would you recommend with the K7xx? Is it worth getting an additional soundcard or would the onboard audio of the Asus Z170 Pro Gaming motherboard do just fine?


 
  
 Asus Xonar DX, because of the CS4398 DAC chip.
 (guess the Xonar DX is somewhat optional)
 Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.


----------



## F41LTR41N

lenroot77 said:


> I'm not real familar with onboard motherboard audio... maybe someone else could chime in on that.
> 
> Personally if you can swing the creative X7 I would go that route. It retails for 400, but is often on sale for 270-300.
> 
> After writing the above I realized you might only be PC gaming, if this is the case it's possible there are better PC only sound cards/processors available. Sorry!


 
  
 Thanks! I'm gonna investigate gaming on-board audio quality a bit more. I will need an amp though. How about the Schiit Magni 2?


----------



## F41LTR41N

purpleangel said:


> Asus Xonar DX, because of the CS4398 DAC chip.
> (guess the Xonar DX is somewhat optional)
> Bravo Ocean tube (hybrid) headphone amplifier.


 
  
 I forgot to mention I will have an Asus Z170I Pro Gaming in an NCASE v5... so I can't really afford to add much inside the case. I can solely consider external audio cards. What's the newbie explanation for "because of the CS4398 DAC chip"?


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> Good point. If you already have a sound card, test out the built in DAC before springing for an external one. Chances are it will suffice. Now, if you are hearing background noise, then an upgrade might be worthwhile. That $100 saved on a Modi could go towards a nice pair of cans.







newvegasbaby said:


> Thats a way to go about it .
> 
> I have thought about this and I think i will keep my xonar DX as an DAC . It has a very good chip in it and DACS have less of an impact than people think tbh.
> 
> I am gonna get a pair of k712 pros and an amp . If I find the DX insuffecient I will buy a dedicated DAC but I doubt this will be the case.




That's the thing people forget about the Schiit Stack, particularly the Modi: it's an entry-level DAC. The Omni and SoundBlaster Z have entry-level DACs. The FiiO E10k has an entry-level DAC. The DACs built into smartphones are entry-level, but their amps usually have a weaker amp and some distortion. Computers usually are even worse, sometimes having a step below entry-level DACs and Amps!

The Modi is a decent entry-level DAC, essentially it doesn't sound flawed and can sidestep a lot of problems with PC setups, but people hear it and their journey with DACs ends there. It's NOT better than an Omni or a Xonar, rather a sidegrade.




newvegasbaby said:


> You can just go modi 2 / magni 2 for sure with those headphones.



You could... not an ideal recommendation for gaming.




doctacosmos said:


> That's what I'm asking if the x7 is the only external device that will decode into Dolby headphone and then also be able to send the signal back out via optical like how your pc sound cards are doing it



Very confident that, right now, the X7 is the only external device that will decode Dolby (Digital Live 5.1/7.1), use a DSP method to encode a headphone Virtual Surround mix, and can then send that resultant stereo encoded with the processed sound to a digital output (Optical toslink)... with the exception of the Smyth Realiser A8, and soon the A16.
I think there are still MANY devices that do a fair job internally, there's always a price/quality ladder.



helvetica bold said:


> https://youtu.be/t9LmDYfiDNc
> 
> Forgive me if this has been posted but its really interesting, it looks like  Sony is making their own Dolby Atmos headphone tech.
> 
> I wonder how many 3rd party developers will support it.



Sony's proprietary Surround has been lackluster in the past, like in their special wireless Surround processor with matched headphones... BUT, they have obviously been working, and as a generalIzed HRTF I thought the truely 3D surround in the PlayStation VR sounded pretty good.




purpleangel said:


> Guess this is more of a product hype, then something different from what everyone else in gaming console headphone audio is trying to do.




Maybe. But it's overdue. You know as well as I, the advancement of audio has been interesting and not particularly straight! Mono audio reproduction at first because it was difficult to sync two channels, but they figured that out pretty quick, two-channel audio RULED for decades and was iterated and perfected how it was delivered over the years (digital was at first a step back for the sake of convenience, but now it's equal or superior in personal audio reproduction). With music, it was accepted that Stereo gave a realistic enough experience... it would take the popularization of another form of media to push for change.

Then theaters started doing surround channels, although most movies didn't make much use of the potential enough did to where affordable and even bargain home theater setups were created. More people were able to get 5.1 and 7.1 surround setups in the 80's and 90's than ever before, but even today home-audio enthusiasts face challenges with having the right environment to properly set up even a 5.1 surround setup. And Cinema/movies only rarely take advantage of positional cues; they want your attention focused forward, surround cues are subtle at best and gimmicky at worst.

Now, we have the popularization of gaming. It's so pervasive now, PROBABLY everyone in this thread reading this is heavily invested in the pastime, it's amazing to me that my parents don't have much taste for it. Gaming is a paradigm shift, where things persist and make sound even if the screen is facing a different way. Gamers typically want to be immersed in the experience, not constraining the imagination to a little flat square area in front of them. In the 90's, gaming fast prompted audio to do 2D surround like home theater, then beat home theater by having true 3D surround. 3D surround has gone and returned in several hiccups over the years, partially because consoles then Microsoft killed it, but also because it was much more practical for sound engineers to support existing home theater setups than pay for the headphone surround stuff being pioneered on PC.

Headphones have always been more accessible than speakers, but only now are they finally booming in popularity, right before VR Gaming becomes mainstream. With VR, headphones are the only practical choice for audio. And 3D audio is coming back because of it. Now, if you are susceptible to motion sickness, VR may not be for you, BUT 3D audio still can give the "out of the screen" immersive experience without making you sick! I'm going to make a prediction that VR will give a trickle-down effect and even non-VR games will start having better surround support, even 3D surround support, and also that we are on the horizon of 2D surround processors like the Mixamp an X7 being phased out in favor of new-gen 3D surround processors. I don't know if solutions will be built-in like PS-VR's sound processing and not allow for upgrades beyond double-amping, or if we'll see HDMI DSPs aimed at headphones, or eventually HDMI being replaced with something that outputs a digital 3D positional audio output, but the experiences are out there and becoming more popular. Audio will continue to be refined and reiterated.

I see the summit of audio future as 3D surround processed with personalized head/ear measurements, sent to wireless LIGHT AND COMFORTABLE headphones, but there isn't a product that combines all those known technologies yet. I demand it!


----------



## Evshrug

teereqs said:


> In terms of pure sound quality, SBX sounds cleaner and more immersive. I think it does just as good of a job as DH or better for positioning without all the reverb. I tried going back to my mixamp after the X7 and I didn't like it. Sounded like my head was in a fishbowl. This was with the mixamp double amped with a O2 as well.







mad lust envy said:


> More immersive is highly debatable. I find DH much, much more immersive and better at accurate locating sound cues. I do agree on the reverb.




That's because you define immersive differently. You feel (and it's your thread) that immersion is enhanced by strong bass that fills your audio senses and makes you forget your other senses (in a good way), so that all you feel is this audio experience. TeeReQs (and I) think immersion is enhanced by sounding more realistic, less processed. I totally feel both interests are valid. I tend to feel "exciting and bassy" could substitute for when you say immersive, and I think "transparent" or "believable" for the immersion I seek when I use the X7. In fact, I usually have the SBX surround set to like 100% or 80%, and a fair bit of bass EQ turned up! We're here to have fun, and when the music or other audio truely grips you and arrests your attention, that is what we are here to do!


----------



## Kashinoda

EDIT


----------



## Spartoi

Are there any headphones that sound like the Fidelio X2 but are lighter? I had the X2 but had to sell because I found them too heavy for long listening sessions. 
  
 Or alternatively
  
 Are there any headphones like the SHP9500 in terms of weight/comfort and sound, but with more bass? I've started using these headphones after switching from the X2 and they are much more comfortable but I miss the bass from the X2.


----------



## executioner

Hi all

Trying to set up an old Astro Mixamp 2011 with an Xbox One and an AKG Q701. I have a Vmoda Boom mic connected to the Q701 via a xlr adapter, it works great directly connected to the Xbox controller and the sound for the headphone to me sounds good.

Now in order to connect the Xbox one controller to the mic input on the mixamp do I need a 3.5mm to 2.5 mm 4 pole cable or does a regular 3 pole one work?

In this setup where could I add an amp as the mic is not separate from the audio coming out of the mixamp? Do I need the amp?


----------



## headphonesonly

spartoi said:


> Are there any headphones that sound like the Fidelio X2 but are lighter? I had the X2 but had to sell because I found them too heavy for long listening sessions.
> 
> Or alternatively
> 
> Are there any headphones like the SHP9500 in terms of weight/comfort and sound, but with more bass? I've started using these headphones after switching from the X2 and they are much more comfortable but I miss the bass from the X2.


Akg k712 pro or Beyerdynamic dt990 I would say are similar sounding to the x2. Between the two, I prefer the akg's.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> That's because you define immersive differently. You feel (and it's your thread) that immersion is enhanced by strong bass that fills your audio senses and makes you forget your other senses (in a good way), so that all you feel is this audio experience. TeeReQs (and I) think immersion is enhanced by sounding more realistic, less processed. I totally feel both interests are valid. I tend to feel "exciting and bassy" could substitute for when you say immersive, and I think "transparent" or "believable" for the immersion I seek when I use the X7. In fact, I usually have the SBX surround set to like 100% or 80%, and a fair bit of bass EQ turned up! We're here to have fun, and when the music or other audio truely grips you and arrests your attention, that is what we are here to do!




Actually, I find it more immersive despite the bigger lower end. The surround dsp is more enveloping/encompassing/accurate than SBX to me. Think I've said as as such about a million times throughout the years. 

I'm not arguing that SBX sounds less processed and cleaner. However, the ambience and surround positioning just isn't too par. DH feels bigger and rounder.


----------



## Knightfury

f41ltr41n said:


> It appears the AKG K712 Pro is a nice upgrade from an ATH-AD700x, trading minimal loss of soundstage for more comfort and increased fun / bass. The orange color scheme is rather unfortunate though...
> Do you have any alternative recommendation similar to the K712 Pro, but as strong in the "competitive" / soundstage department?
> What would you recommend to drive these?
> What's a good mic setup if you wish to steer clear of the Modmic solution? Will an AT2020 on a desk mounted arm not pick up mechanical keyboard noises?


 


 How open is the K712pro (sound leakage wise, I'm not too fussed about "noise" in). 
 What would be a good addition to either SB-Z or xonar DX to drive it?
  
 I've got a second hand pair I'm looking at for around £85.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Headphones have always been more accessible than speakers, but only now are they finally booming in popularity, right before VR Gaming becomes mainstream. With VR, headphones are the only practical choice for audio. And 3D audio is coming back because of it. Now, if you are susceptible to motion sickness, VR may not be for you, BUT 3D audio still can give the "out of the screen" immersive experience without making you sick! I'm going to make a prediction that VR will give a trickle-down effect and even non-VR games will start having better surround support, even 3D surround support, and also that we are on the horizon of 2D surround processors like the Mixamp an X7 being phased out in favor of new-gen 3D surround processors. I don't know if solutions will be built-in like PS-VR's sound processing and not allow for upgrades beyond double-amping, or if we'll see HDMI DSPs aimed at headphones, or eventually HDMI being replaced with something that outputs a digital 3D positional audio output, but the experiences are out there and becoming more popular. Audio will continue to be refined and reiterated.
> 
> I see the summit of audio future as 3D surround processed with personalized head/ear measurements, sent to wireless LIGHT AND COMFORTABLE headphones, but there isn't a product that combines all those known technologies yet. I demand it!


 
 IIRC Realizer A16 has an optical out so You could just plug a Bluetooth transmitter into A16 to achieve exactly that.


----------



## F41LTR41N

lenroot77 said:


> I'm not real familar with onboard motherboard audio... maybe someone else could chime in on that.
> 
> Personally if you can swing the creative X7 I would go that route. It retails for 400, but is often on sale for 270-300.
> 
> After writing the above I realized you might only be PC gaming, if this is the case it's possible there are better PC only sound cards/processors available. Sorry!


 
  
 Do you think it will require an amp to run along with the ROG SupremeFX on-board audio?
 Have you only used the HD800 for music or occasionally for gaming? How's the soundstage? I may add this to a 2018 upgrade list given all the raving reviews.


----------



## Muldeberg

Hey, I bought the ad700x 2 weeks ago but I had to send them back because the drivers touched my ears and the wing design got stuck in my hair lol.. I bought them for gaming and I really loved the sound in games like CSGO. So it sucks that I had to send them back, but I was wondering if there's any headphones close or "the same" as the ad700x?
 I will only use it for competitive gaming. I've looked at the AKG K702 so far, would they be close to ad700x?


----------



## PurpleAngel

muldeberg said:


> Hey, I bought the ad700x 2 weeks ago but I had to send them back because the drivers touched my ears and the wing design got stuck in my hair lol.. I bought them for gaming and I really loved the sound in games like CSGO. So it sucks that I had to send them back, but I was wondering if there's any headphones close or "the same" as the ad700x?
> I will only use it for competitive gaming. I've looked at the AKG K702 so far, would they be close to ad700x?


 
  
 Massdrop is offering the AKG K7XX.
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones


----------



## Muldeberg

purpleangel said:


> Massdrop is offering the AKG K7XX.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/akg-k7xx-massdrop-first-edition-headphones


 
 I don't think I can buy from massdrop, it will get very expensive because of shipment. I live in Denmark and I think I have to pay like 25% extra of what it says...


----------



## mbyrnes

The other is the K712. See what the pricing is where you are and compare to the Massdrop K7XX. I think you'll be very happy with them. I love my K702 65th Anniversary, which is almost identical to those two above.


----------



## PurpleAngel

muldeberg said:


> I don't think I can buy from massdrop, it will get very expensive because of shipment. I live in Denmark and I think I have to pay like 25% extra of what it says...


 
  
 Denmark.
 Can't you just build some nice headphones out of Legos?


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> Denmark.
> Can't you just build some nice headphones out of Legos?


 

 Like these?


----------



## Muldeberg

purpleangel said:


> Denmark.
> Can't you just build some nice headphones out of Legos?


 
 My lego building level is not high enough to do that, it takes a master to build lego headphones.


----------



## obice

i´m also in desperate search for the best csgo competitive gaming headphone/headset with roughly ~200€ budget. at the moment i bought the pc360se for 99€ but tbh i dont like them. Game zero and game one should be not much of a difference. cant find a setting where i´m able to hear the steps around me accurate all the time some steps also seem to dissapear although i should hear them. i use a x-fi titanium fatality soundcard
 so far my list contains ad700 (ad500x should be close to the sound of the ad700 i read),ad700x
 AKG K702,k240,k612pro
  
 At the moment i tend to buy the ad500x and K702 and keep the better fitting one for my requirement. Most important for gaming is a wide soundstage with focus on mids and not much bass. thats why the ad700 is the ultimate gaming headphone, sad that u cant buy them anymore unused
  
 maybe somebody can help us


----------



## Muldeberg

obice said:


> i´m also in desperate search for the best csgo competitive gaming headphone/headset with roughly ~200€ budget. at the moment i bought the pc360se for 99€ but tbh i dont like them. Game zero and game one should be not much of a difference. cant find a setting where i´m able to hear the steps around me accurate all the time some steps also seem to dissapear although i should hear them. i use a x-fi titanium fatality soundcard
> so far my list contains ad700 (ad500x should be close to the sound of the ad700 i read),ad700x
> AKG K702,k240,k612pro
> 
> ...


 
 I had the ad700x and I used them for CSGO and they were so much better than my sennheiser game one. Only reason I send them back was because they were uncomfortable for me. So if they fit on your melon better than mine then they're the best choice 100%.


----------



## Zyker

After doing some research, I had almost decided on the Fostex FH-X00 Ebony... but I think I might just save up some more money and go with a Mr. Speakers Ether C flow.  Huge leap in price, but if it's as good as Mad Lust Envy makes it sound, I'm willing to wait.


----------



## mbyrnes

I went ahead and ordered the TH-X00 Ebony, lol. Guess it is more curiosity than anything, but I've wanted the a while. Worried they end production if I don't grab them now. Best part is they ship next week!


----------



## The Krell

Has anyone tried the Audio technical M40X with a DSS2 for battlefield 1? my puppy chewed through my ATHWS77 and my AKG545 have gone in the left earcup.


----------



## mbyrnes

I have the ATH-M50X, and I'm not crazy about them. Too closed in, no soundstage. But I was used to the AKG K702 Annie's, which are awesome for gaming. Haven't heard your cans, so I can't compare anything. Wish I could help more


----------



## The Krell

I have sent for the M40X from amazon I had to use my giftcard up..i hope they sound alright with the dss2 they are 35ohm headphones and shouldn't be difficult to drive!


----------



## Forty0z

the krell said:


> I have sent for the M40X from amazon I had to use my giftcard up..i hope they sound alright with the dss2 they are 35ohm headphones and shouldn't be difficult to drive!


 
 I sometimes use the M40X for gaming. 
  
 I really like them. As soon as you can get the HM5 pads for them. 
  
 The pads open the sound stage a little and are more comfortable then the stock pads.
  
 This is impo.


----------



## Etrips

So I have all my parts coming in within the next week or two but just realized that I'm not sure how to get it all hooked up. Getting a Xonar DX to take advantage of the DH technology. Should my set up look like this?
  
 PC/Soundcard > Y Splitter via SPDIF Out > Mini to RCA > Amp > Headphones
                                                            \> RCA > Speakers
  
 Where do I hook up my ModMic to my motherboard mic? The Xonar DX uses the same port for the SPDIF/mic.
  
 edit: Looks like I hook up the splitter (can I do this?) into the second slot or the headphone out.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> IIRC Realizer A16 has an optical out so You could just plug a Bluetooth transmitter into A16 to achieve exactly that.



The Realiser is purported to have 3D positioned audio of a kind... but only with content encoded with Aurosonic 3D (do you know any game supporting that?), and anyway it's still just based on emulating speakers in a room rather than just freely simulating the environment in the game/movie with a binaural mix.


----------



## The Krell

These M40X have one small sound stage and the directional audio isn't all that, Almost pointless plugging them into the dss2, i may aswell just use them with the ps4 controller..The M30X had a bigger sound stage with really good directional audio with the dss2, i am regretting sending them back now. A bit of an update i have messed about with the settings a bit with the dss2 and they are not as bad as i first thought, i still wouldn't rush out and by a pair!


----------



## Find the Door

AKG 712 Pros coming tomorrow to pair with my Soundblaster x7 Limited Edition. Is this a good pairing?

I currently have Beyerdynamic MMX 300s which to my understanding are the equivalents of the DT770's. Should I expect a completely different sound signature that's a little more analytical? A better soundstage?

I'm sooo excited! I play a lot of Rainbow Six Siege.


----------



## ls13coco

find the door said:


> AKG 712 Pros coming tomorrow to pair with my Soundblaster x7 Limited Edition. Is this a good pairing?
> 
> I currently have Beyerdynamic MMX 300s which to my understanding are the equivalents of the DT770's. Should I expect a completely different sound signature that's a little more analytical? A better soundstage?
> 
> I'm sooo excited! I play a lot of Rainbow Six Siege.


 

 Nice! Let me know what you think, I got the X7 recently with 712's on the way.


----------



## Fegefeuer

find the door said:


> AKG 712 Pros coming tomorrow to pair with my Soundblaster x7 Limited Edition. Is this a good pairing?
> 
> I currently have Beyerdynamic MMX 300s which to my understanding are the equivalents of the DT770's. Should I expect a completely different sound signature that's a little more analytical? A better soundstage?
> 
> I'm sooo excited! I play a lot of Rainbow Six Siege.


 
  
 well, larger soundstage with noticably more breathing room and Entfaltung 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. Tighter Bass, more linear. Hear it for yourself, you'll appreciate the change after you got used to it for a while. 
 I'm not a fan of the X7's amp but it'll be ok. You could do better but don't concern yourself with that for a longer time.


----------



## Forty0z

the krell said:


> These M40X have one small sound stage and the directional audio isn't all that, Almost pointless plugging them into the dss2, i may aswell just use them with the ps4 controller..The M30X had a bigger sound stage with really good directional audio with the dss2, i am regretting sending them back now. A bit of an update i have messed about with the settings a bit with the dss2 and they are not as bad as i first thought, i still wouldn't rush out and by a pair!


 
 That's to bad you didn't like the M40X.
  
 I like them especially with the hm5 leather pads.
  
 I'm not sure what your looking for or what headphones you currently own.
  
 But if you want better sound-stage and positional awareness you should look at open back headphones.


----------



## themrmikemcd

I need help from someone who has professional ears. I recently had m50x headphones and sold them to buy the m40x headphones as I heard it sounded better. Now that I have the m40x headphones I don't know if I like them better than the m50x or if I downgraded... I hope the M50x isn't a cuss word in here lol. Lot of people say they are all hype.


----------



## Fegefeuer

don't buy M50x for gaming and movies.They're fine enough for music when bought below 100, other than that. DON'T BUY THEM FOR GAMING AND MOVIES as their soundstage is too small, too congested and the headphone "suffers" from lack of air. 
  
 Creative Aurvana Live are better for gaming. Other than that, HD 518, SHP 9500, HD 558, HD 598, DT990 etc.......


----------



## nicobombai

themrmikemcd said:


> I need help from someone who has professional ears. I recently had m50x headphones and sold them to buy the m40x headphones as I heard it sounded better. Now that I have the m40x headphones I don't know if I like them better than the m50x or if I downgraded... I hope the M50x isn't a cuss word in here lol. Lot of people say they are all hype.


 
  
 DT770 should be hyped more than M50X imo, way better, with controlled bass and better soundstage


----------



## themrmikemcd

I 100% agree... However price wise.. M50x was the budget.


----------



## datamage

Guys,
  
 If anyone can provide some insight, I would appreciate it.
  
 Long story short, I went from a Sound Blaster G5 to a ZxR for the better surround processing. (I loved the Zxr)
  
 However, I recently put together a new Skylake build, and the ZxR has issues on the Maximus board I have. (Reading around, it sounds like it's common.) I wound up returning the ZxR cause I was still able to, but now I'm not content with the G5. 
  
 Is there another option that would provide surround processing as good as or near the ZxR? Anyone try the Asus Strix Raid DLX? Or even the onboard sound "SupremeFX 2015?"
  
 Thanks!


----------



## themrmikemcd

fegefeuer said:


> don't buy M50x for gaming and movies.They're fine enough for music when bought below 100, other than that. DON'T BUY THEM FOR GAMING AND MOVIES as their soundstage is too small, too congested and the headphone "suffers" from lack of air.
> 
> Creative Aurvana Live are better for gaming. Other than that, HD 518, SHP 9500, HD 558, HD 598, DT990 etc.......


 I actually have the SHP9500 and the Creative Aurvana Live. I also jave the hyperlux668s.I used to have the dt990,the padding really irritated my skin and gave me a rash. I used to have the HD598 but they didnt have quite enough bass. I'm looking for just some good headphones for rock music. Im all set for gaming I think would like a nice pair of closed back that could do gaming and music well.


----------



## The Krell

I have just ordered Beyerdynamic dt770 16 ohm to go with the dss2, hopefully they should sound good together.


----------



## ls13coco

fegefeuer said:


> well, larger soundstage with noticably more breathing room and Entfaltung
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Have you swapped op-amps?


----------



## TeeReQs

Got some HD598SE's for Xmas, and forgot how good these things are for gaming. Footsteps in MWR are incredibly easy to hear now, and I'd say is on par with the AD700, only with better overall comfort and sound quality. Might have to thin the herd and sell the AD700's. My headphone collection grew quite a bit in the last month or so.


----------



## nicobombai

themrmikemcd said:


> I 100% agree... However price wise.. M50x was the budget.


 
 Ah ic, cos in amazon last i checked m50x was above the dt770 thats why i was able to say that...
  
  


the krell said:


> I have just ordered Beyerdynamic dt770 16 ohm to go with the dss2, hopefully they should sound good together.


 
 I never knew those existed... Dayum DT770 has a lot of variations lol


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah there are a TON of DT770 variations... the different ohm versions were designed to sound the same, but weirdly there are plenty of user reports claiming that different production years sound different, with good or too much bass.

My personal experience with the DT770: probably about an hour combined time auditioning it at a small local head-fi meet (which I help host). I have heard it on silly expensive upstream gear, and This is definitely a headphone that scales up between entry-level and mid-level gear.
The build quality is "decent design and very good comfort, but cheap plastic cup material." The cheapness doesn't affect sound or give the impression of fragility, it's just an aesthetic thing, and makes me think of 1990s electronics.
The sound on entry/low-level gear is plenty loud, but extra bloomy bass and treble distortion as well. Hooking it up to something nicer reveals a surprisingly detailed headphone with a satisfying tonality, had fun listening to several performances. Connecting it to a Questyle CMA600I was way overkill, but I feel like I got a good feel for the max capabilities... surprisingly close to the more expensive new DT1770, but still a bit treble-piercing for me when certain pitch sounds are called for, very good "thwock!" of drumskins. I preferred the DT1770 because it basically solved my minor niggles, and sounded better on mid-fi gear without having to go silly, but it still had that price difference.
Overall it's very good, one of my top two favorite Beyers.


----------



## Find the Door

ls13coco said:


> Have you swapped op-amps?




How do I swap op-amps? Like where do I purchase them? Do I need special tools?

The stock op-amp on the X7 limited edition sounds very harsh at points with the k712 pros.


----------



## TeeReQs

@Evshrug and @Yethal have both reviewed some on here. They are really easy to install. Open up the bottom cover on your X7 and you can see them. I'm planning on going with the Bursons myself.
  
 Link to reviews:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390#post_13067175
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sparkos-labs-ss3601-discrete-op-amps/reviews/16354
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/reviews/16539
  
  
 Link to op amps:
  
 http://sparkoslabs.com/shop/
  
 https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/


----------



## Find the Door

teereqs said:


> @Evshrug
> and @Yethal
> have both reviewed some on here. They are really easy to install. Open up the bottom cover on your X7 and you can see them. I'm planning on going with the Bursons myself.
> 
> ...




Thanks! Went with the ss3601 since it sounds like an all around genuine upgrade. I don't really have any tonal gripes with the sound signature pf the x7 as is really as I can just EQ them out for the most part. I do have issues with the lack of volume. 

I have a question for that by the way. The x7 says 32 ohm and under for the lowgain setting and 600 for the high gain. Since my k712 pros fall somewhere in the middle at 62 ohms what should I select? I have to crank it in order to get a volume that I like. I could use "night mode" and bring everything closer to my head but I prefer "full" as it seems to separate sounds better.


----------



## mbyrnes

find the door said:


> Thanks! Went with the ss3601 since it sounds like an all around genuine upgrade. I don't really have any tonal gripes with the sound signature pf the x7 as is really as I can just EQ them out for the most part. I do have issues with the lack of volume.
> 
> I have a question for that by the way. The x7 says 32 ohm and under for the lowgain setting and 600 for the high gain. Since my k712 pros fall somewhere in the middle at 62 ohms what should I select? I have to crank it in order to get a volume that I like. I could use "night mode" and bring everything closer to my head but I prefer "full" as it seems to separate sounds better.




Always run high unless you can't control the volume with super sensitive headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

find the door said:


> Thanks! Went with the ss3601 since it sounds like an all around genuine upgrade. I don't really have any tonal gripes with the sound signature pf the x7 as is really as I can just EQ them out for the most part. I do have issues with the lack of volume.
> 
> I have a question for that by the way. The x7 says 32 ohm and under for the lowgain setting and 600 for the high gain. Since my k712 pros fall somewhere in the middle at 62 ohms what should I select? I have to crank it in order to get a volume that I like. I could use "night mode" and bring everything closer to my head but I prefer "full" as it seems to separate sounds better.




Holy cow.
Yeah, turning the X7 to "high gain" is Rock Lee taking off his ankle weights, the sound can have more dynamic swings with it set to high, BUT even on the low mode I could drive the K712 to painfully high volumes! Like, the first notes hit and I had to rip off the headphones loud, left my head kinda stunned ears hurting worried I had shortened my music listening lifespan loud. Did it recently by accident with my K612s, which are 120 Ohms, and my friend who was there and saw it happen said it looked like it hurt and it sounded way loud for headphone leakage. With my K712s, windows volume is usually set at 20%-23%, sometimes less if I've been listening for awhile.

I'd ask you to troubleshoot and try different inputs like bluetooth, but honestly even more than that I would say if you like music then don't destroy your ears! At my IT job, I work with the public, and I meet so many people with tinnitus or hearing aids (which don't work very well)... you know, there is absolutely no cure for tinnitus, and it only gets worse with time. Shouldn't be listening to headphones at over 85dB average, because sometimes things will blast louder for a moment etc. I say this with all the love of an audiophile wishing you a long career enjoying gaming and music!

Some facts about our ears:
http://www.etymotic.com/downloads/dl/file/id/15/product/82/guide_to_safe_listening.pdf


----------



## Blueboots

I'm looking for a good pair of headphones for gaming and was considering the Audio-Technica ATH-A990z. I prefer closed back headphones as there is a lot of noise that goes on in my house that I like to block out. I can't find any written or video reviews in English for the headphones at all unless i'm looking in the wrong places. Does anyone know anything about them or would suggest another pair of closed back headphones that are great for gaming?


----------



## lenroot77

blueboots said:


> I'm looking for a good pair of headphones for gaming and was considering the Audio-Technica [COLOR=333333]ATH-A990z. I prefer closed back headphones as there is a lot of noise that goes on in my house that I like to block out. I can't find any written or video reviews in English for the headphones at all unless i'm looking in the wrong places. Does anyone know anything about them or would suggest another pair of closed back headphones that are great for gaming?[/COLOR]




I'd consider the Audio Technical A700(x)/A900(x) or the hd598C (closed version available on amazon).
Both of these have better than average soundstage for a closed back headphone. Personally I enjoyed them more than the Beyerdynamic DT770. They were better at positioning and had a more open feel to them compared to the dt770's.


----------



## PurpleAngel

blueboots said:


> I'm looking for a good pair of headphones for gaming and was considering the Audio-Technica ATH-A990z. I prefer closed back headphones as there is a lot of noise that goes on in my house that I like to block out. I can't find any written or video reviews in English for the headphones at all unless i'm looking in the wrong places. Does anyone know anything about them or would suggest another pair of closed back headphones that are great for gaming?


 
  
 I'm going to guess the ATH-A990Z is a tweaked ATH-A900X.
 The ATH-A900X was my preferred headphone for use with my PC listening.


----------



## Helvetica bold

CES is this week, should we expect to see lots of new gaming headsets?


----------



## VeerK

helvetica bold said:


> CES is this week, should we expect to see lots of new gaming headsets?


 
 I'm not sure, unless they start releasing some new headsets with better mics, the market is a little stagnant with the same old "rgb wireless" stuff. I'm personally pumped for the new graphics cards and pc cases, might prevent me from blowing any more cash on a nice pair of closed backs.


----------



## Find the Door

So I need to order two ss3601's?


----------



## TeeReQs

Either 2 singles or you can order 2 singles and 2 doubles to replace all 4.


----------



## Emix

Guys, help me because I am stuck :/
  
 I am replacing my old gaming headset to a pair of headphones after reading many opinions that it's worth it. I will mainly use them for FPS gaming. Now I can say, it was worth it but...
  
 I bought two pairs of headphones - AKG K612 Pro and Bayerdynamic DT990 Pro. I can hear the difference in how they sound but don't know which is better for me - flat K612's or higher on bass/trebles DT990's, however this is not my biggest concern.
  
 1. K612's - very lightweight, quite comfortable, however:
  - headband is uncomfortable - I can feel it on my head and after few hours I can feel small pain on the top of my head. Is there any way to bend/modify it so that it is more comfortable?
  - ear cups are comfortable, however foam is not that soft so I can feel them on my cheeks/head - will it become more soft after some time?
  
 2. DT990's - perfect comfort of headband, can't even feel it, very nice plushy ear cups, however...
  - ear cups put quite strong pressure on my cheeks, especially near my jaw joints - is there any way to reduce it or any chance it will become less clamping?
  
 And if I can ask you to tell your own opinion about which should I choose? Maybe you have experience with both of them and could advice how it looks after some time of using them? Or maybe there are some other headphones that will remove above mentioned concerns and will be my perfect set of headphones? 
  
 Thanks!


----------



## shuto77

emix said:


> Guys, help me because I am stuck :/
> 
> I am replacing my old gaming headset to a pair of headphones after reading many opinions that it's worth it. I will mainly use them for FPS gaming. Now I can say, it was worth it but...
> 
> ...




Hi there. First, a lot of people around here like both headphones, but prefer one sound signature over another. I personally liked the Beyers, but the mids were a little too recessed for me. 

The AKG K7XX is popular here, and for good reason. I found them extremely comfortable. These were new. I also owned the Beyers, but they were used. You may be able to stretch the headband,but I'd double check with the others here.

I also liked the the Philips Fidelio X2, although it's a little on the clampy side so you may not like that. They do, however, have a steel headband that is very durable and can definitely be stretched, provided you are careful. 

Couple questions:
1) What's your budget? 
2) How are you driving them? 
3) Do you prefer a neutral, V-shaped, bassy, or bright signature?

For me, it was helpful to go through a bunch of headphones to see what I liked best.


----------



## Emix

shuto77 said:


> Hi there. First, a lot of people around here like both headphones, but prefer one sound signature over another. I personally liked the Beyers, but the mids were a little too recessed for me.
> 
> The AKG K7XX is popular here, and for good reason. I found them extremely comfortable. These were new. I also owned the Beyers, but they were used. You may be able to stretch the headband,but I'd double check with the others here.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Thanks for your reply!
  
 AKG K7XX are unavailable here 
  
 1) My budget is around 200$
 2) I drive them from integrated audio on my motherboard - it's Asus Z170 Pro Gaming - specification says it can drive headphones up to 300Ohm because it has internal amp, however if needed I can buy some external amp (in the future)
 3) It's hard to say. I like to hear some bass and trebles but not too much - I think neutral or slightly V-shaped will be fine.


----------



## Evshrug

emix said:


> 1. K612's - very lightweight, quite comfortable, however:
> - headband is uncomfortable - I can feel it on my head and after few hours I can feel small pain on the top of my head. Is there any way to bend/modify it so that it is more comfortable?
> - ear cups are comfortable, however foam is not that soft so I can feel them on my cheeks/head - will it become more soft after some time?





That's my K612, listening right now with a Mojo and Spotify Premium while waiting for my car inspection. I put a baby seatbelt wrap on it, you can see what brand in the gray oval but I don't think you have to be picky. I've got a bald spot growing every year, but that seatbelt wrap I picked up at a Toy's R Us has been useful to me through 3 AKGs and about 5 years time total.

I still have my stock earpads, they're not perfect but IMO neither were the DT880 earpads I had. The K712 earpads (flat) were softer than the Q701 earpads (angled), but nothing has beaten a fresh pair of HD800 earpads so far (those are alcantara I think... shure earpads use alcantara too? I think only AKG pads fit the AKG's huge circle). Pads definitely do change with time; compression, oils from your skin, humidity... I think pads get a little bit better with time and fit to your face better, but eventually that peaks and they get more itchy and affect the sound. It's a very slow process... but my 3-year old Q701's definitely were more bassy (and a little slower) than my brand new K712 were. I recommend changing pads every 2 years... or sooner. Some people don't keep headphones longer than 2 years, but I wouldn't buy headphones without replaceable pads because pad wear gradually makes a pretty significant difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As for the DT990 Pro, yes threy have strong clamp. You can grab both cups and stretch them out a bit. It's metallic contstruction so it ain't just gonna snap on you. Just do little by little. Like grab the cups and Straighten the headband little by little. Like...

Here's my thread on how to do it. It was for the M50, but it applies here as well.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/493838/stretching-your-m50s-for-less-clamp-and-much-more-comfort

7 years ago. h34r:


----------



## nicobombai

emix said:


> Guys, help me because I am stuck :/
> 
> I am replacing my old gaming headset to a pair of headphones after reading many opinions that it's worth it. I will mainly use them for FPS gaming. Now I can say, it was worth it but...
> 
> ...


 
  
 I would say, go for DT990 for fun listening + immersion in games, go for K612 Pro for audio whoring and picking apart details both in music and games, although not as fun as DT990. Both are wonderful headphones...


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> I would say, go for DT990 for fun listening + immersion in games, go for K612 Pro for audio whoring and picking apart details both in music and games, although not as fun as DT990. Both are wonderful headphones...



Eh, I'd phrase it differently, but I agree both are quality.

The K612 is along the path of the "holy grail-er" personality. Searching for the one headphone that can stand alone and do everything well? Even if you have other headphones for certain situations, you have a "main" headphone. If that sounds like you/your goal, then consider that the K612 is very even though the frequency ranges... flatter than the vaunted Sennheiser HD600, also lighter and less clampy.

Then again, the DT990 would be a solid choice for someone seeking complimentary "flavors." You might find yourself a "flavor" audiophile if you find yourself collecting a wide variety of headphones, because you like variety, you want to "fix" the bad engineering of a song, or you just simply have a taste for a particular sound flavor like the strong V-shaped frequency curve of the DT990. Maybe the headphone sounds weird sometimes BUT sounds totally AWESOME with a particular genre or even a particular song. If that sounds more like you, the DT990 is the better fit, though Mad Lust Envy's guide has pointed out that the Phillips Fidelio X1 has a similar flavor as the DT990, but does it better, plus replaceable cable (which should be replaced almost right away if you get one of the old ones).


----------



## Muldeberg

I just bought the AKG k702, and I want to use v-moda's microphone with them. So I found this adapter http://www.rode.com/accessories/micon-6 
 I think it's mini xlr to 6.5mm female. So would I be able to buy another adapter for the v-moda to make it 6.5mm because it's 3.5mm. Would that work?


----------



## lenroot77

muldeberg said:


> I just bought the AKG k702, and I want to use v-moda's microphone with them. So I found this adapter http://www.rode.com/accessories/micon-6
> I think it's mini xlr to 6.5mm female. So would I be able to buy another adapter for the v-moda to make it 6.5mm because it's 3.5mm. Would that work?




Mimic cables can make you exactly what u need. See the link below. 

https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter


----------



## Muldeberg

lenroot77 said:


> Mimic cables can make you exactly what u need. See the link below.
> 
> https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/akg-3pin-mini-xlr-to-stereo-3-5mm-adapter


 
 Yeah but I can't buy stuff in USA. It'll end up costing like 100 dollars. Because I live Denmark.
  
 Thanks anyway though!


----------



## shuto77

Has anyone else here swapped in the new Burson op-amps on the Sound Blaster X7? 

I purchased 2 singles and one double, but I'm not sure which one the bottom to leave stock.


----------



## AxelCloris

shuto77 said:


> Has anyone else here swapped in the new Burson op-amps on the Sound Blaster X7?
> 
> I purchased 2 singles and one double, but I'm not sure which one the bottom to leave stock.


 

@Evshrug did and wrote up a whole piece on the process. http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390#post_13067175


----------



## Helvetica bold

Has this been posted, new HyperX w/ USB Dolby.
http://www.techradar.com/news/hyperx-latest-gaming-headset-makes-71-surround-sound-affordable


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> @Evshrug
> did and wrote up a whole piece on the process. http://www.head-fi.org/t/646786/evshrugs-if-i-knew-then-what-i-know-now-discussion-journal/390#post_13067175




Shoot. I purchased 2 singles and one double, but it looks like I needed two doubles as well. 

If anyone has another Burson SS V5i-D, pm me.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Has anyone else here swapped in the new Burson op-amps on the Sound Blaster X7?
> 
> I purchased 2 singles and one double, but I'm not sure which one the bottom to leave stock.


 
 Singles are the ones on the top. Can't You just buy another dual?
 Also, here's my writeup: http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/reviews/16539


----------



## Evshrug

I liked using plyers.


----------



## rudyae86

purpleangel said:


> I'm going to guess the ATH-A990Z is a tweaked ATH-A900X.
> The ATH-A900X was my preferred headphone for use with my PC listening.


 
 Yeah the ATH-A990Z is the replacement for the A900X.
  
 Funny thing is I have had the A900x for about 2 years, new and unopened and recently opened it to use it for an hour or so. Love the sound and all but the wind system did not work for me. Felt like the headphone would fall off and also felt like it was hanging of my ear although the pads are plenty big and spongy, comfortable in that aspect.
  
 I don't but the A900X is like an M50 on steroids somehow, with way better soundstage as well. But that was only one hour of listening.
  
 Soon I went to Amazon to look up the pricing and surprisingly Amazon was accepting trade ins for Like New A900x for $116 and that is the price I paid for new lol.
  
 So in the end, I didn't lose anything but I have many headphones I don't use that I was willing to let it go. Maybe someday in the near future I will get the A990Z and try it out, it is supposed to have an updated wing system head band.


----------



## nicobombai

Looking at the new Beyer COP for gaming, i have a feeling they just attach a boom mic and sell it under the gaming section with the gaming price tag cmiiw...


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Looking at the new Beyer COP for gaming, i have a feeling they just attach a boom mic and sell it under the gaming section with the gaming price tag cmiiw...


 

 Beyerdynamic already made that headset. It was called Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear it was a replacement boom mic + cable for the regular COP. This looks to be a refreshed version of the same thing.


----------



## The Krell

Quick review of the DT770. Do yourself a favour and get the AKG545 instead!


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Singles are the ones on the top. Can't You just buy another dual?
> Also, here's my writeup: http://www.head-fi.org/products/burson-audio-supreme-sound-opamp-v5i/reviews/16539




Yes, that's what I did. I misunderstood your instructions before purchasing last month and only bought one dual. 

Also, these things are very hot to the touch. 

Are you or @evshrug doing anything to cover the op-amps since these are too tall to get the cover back on?


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Yes, that's what I did. I misunderstood your instructions before purchasing last month and only bought one dual.
> 
> Also, these things are very hot to the touch.
> 
> Are you or @evshrug doing anything to cover the op-amps since these are too tall to get the cover back on?


 

 Nah, the cover would just make it harder for the heat to dissipate. just leave it off it should be fine.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> Beyerdynamic already made that headset. It was called Beyerdynamic Custom Headset Gear it was a replacement boom mic + cable for the regular COP. This looks to be a refreshed version of the same thing.


 
  
 Yeah i remembered that one, and i do agree that this will be a refresh on those with a brand new GAMING price tag lol


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Yes, that's what I did. I misunderstood your instructions before purchasing last month and only bought one dual.
> 
> Also, these things are very hot to the touch.
> 
> Are you or @evshrug doing anything to cover the op-amps since these are too tall to get the cover back on?



Yeah, it just faces the table so I'm not worried about dust or anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Any wireless headsets coming out that make any damn sense for PS4/PC?

I'm still baffled by Astro's decision to sell two versions of the A50 for the opposing consoles. I find this shameful business practice when their older gear worked on all systems.

I definitely need a wireless anything. I thought by now that Senn would sell a wireless Game One/PC360. ***, I'd buy that.


----------



## Evshrug

Sennheiser did just today announce like four standard stereo Bluetooth headphones. But no GSX1000 with Bluetooth output, sorry (that'd be pretty kick-ass!)


----------



## joe

Actually,* @Mad Lust Envy*, you might want to check out this -- *t**he Logitech G G533*.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

joe said:


> Actually, *@Mad Lust Envy
> *, you might want to check out this -- *t**he Logitech G G533*.




That does seem appealing. Just wondering if it'll work on the PS4 will all DTS Headphone X features intact. If so, I might consider it myself. It's the lack of consoles that tends to dismiss most of these products.

Ideally a base station that has a digital input for headset like this would be fantastic. I could always go back to something like the PLYR1, I guess.


----------



## Sam21

maybe try Sony wireless headphones ? they have DD and DTS decoders and headphone surround....the latest one has 9.1 channel headphone surround...
  
This
  
 I am not sure about the quality of the headphones or the surround though...
  
 I have this and I think it is alright...


----------



## Muldeberg

What cable do I need to make this microphone from hyperx 2 work? http://www.pcgameware.co.uk/images/HyperX-Cloud-II-microphone.jpg
 Can I just use a normal 3.5mm extension cable like this? http://images.junostatic.com/full/IS296708-01-01-BIG.jpg
  
 Ty to anyone helping because I really suck at this stuff.


----------



## Sam21

if they are both 3.5mm, then yes you can plug the mic into the cable.


----------



## Evshrug

joe said:


> Actually, *@Mad Lust Envy
> *, you might want to check out this -- *t**he Logitech G G533*.




Last time I heard a Logitech was a decade ago and before I started learning what was possible within headphone audio. Would be good to get this Logitech (flagship) quantified.

Just bought a sexy bike for myself as the wedding/Christmas gift no one else got, so I'm tapped out but having fun building and tuning till we get a dry day or three.


----------



## TeeReQs

muldeberg said:


> What cable do I need to make this microphone from hyperx 2 work? http://www.pcgameware.co.uk/images/HyperX-Cloud-II-microphone.jpg
> Can I just use a normal 3.5mm extension cable like this? http://images.junostatic.com/full/IS296708-01-01-BIG.jpg
> 
> Ty to anyone helping because I really suck at this stuff.


 
 That microphone should plug into the bottom of the left ear cup, and then you use the cable attached to  the headset.
  
 Unless, you are trying to use the mic for something else?


----------



## Muldeberg

teereqs said:


> That microphone should plug into the bottom of the left ear cup, and then you use the cable attached to  the headset.
> 
> Unless, you are trying to use the mic for something else?


 
 I'm trying to use it with my AKG k702 that's the reason I'm asking. Forgot to say that


----------



## The Krell

The DT770 (16ohm) aren't too bad now that i am used to them a bit, i wouldn't use them for spotify or anything but they are ok for watching youtube and twitch streamers straight out of the ps4 controller, surrounds sounds not bad with the dss2 playing bf1 and they are comfortable for long gaming sessions.


----------



## TeeReQs

muldeberg said:


> I'm trying to use it with my AKG k702 that's the reason I'm asking. Forgot to say that


 
 Ahh, I see. That makes sense then. A poor mans mod mic, haha. I actually did something similar using a the mic from a Turtle Beach HPX on a pair of Razer Orcas a few years ago. A 3.5mm female to male extension like you linked, should be all you need..and maybe some double sided tape.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

mad lust envy said:


> Any wireless headsets coming out that make any damn sense for PS4/PC?
> 
> I'm still baffled by Astro's decision to sell two versions of the A50 for the opposing consoles. I find this shameful business practice when their older gear worked on all systems.
> 
> I definitely need a wireless anything. I thought by now that Senn would sell a wireless Game One/PC360. ***, I'd buy that.


 
 Maybe take a look at the Lucidsound LS40? Multiformat using a USB dongle set up.  I had the Stereo LS30s and they were pretty decent so expecting good things from these.
  
 Have to agree about a wireless Senn solution though - I'd buy that in an instant


----------



## Evshrug

^I did it once with a lapel mic clipped on a wire, but the lapel mic clipped to my shirt worked well enough and I got lazy.

I found a USB microphone (Blue Snowball) to be the nicest way to have Surround and any headphone I wanted, but I dunno... once I got the Creative Bluetooth dongle, I had "options," and I DID try a set of Bluetooth headphones once (but they were kinda heavy and I missed the surround), and a few times I used a closed headset with a boom mic. Lots to like about that combo, and it was one of the more comfortable closed headphones I'd tried, but friends mentioned (complained) of background buzzing and noise. Seems like the detachable boom Mic couldn't keep a good connection, probably just an issue with my particular sample.


----------



## nicobombai

Quick question,
  
 Can my friend use FIIO usb amps such as e10k for DT990 for ps4? or other fiio amp products in that matter. Its not loud enough for ps4 use, but my friend don't have any problem for pc use.
 Mixamp/Schiit/SMSL/Micca origen is out of the question cos of availability issues.


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Quick question,
> 
> Can my friend use FIIO usb amps such as e10k for DT990 for ps4? or other fiio amp products in that matter. Its not loud enough for ps4 use, but my friend don't have any problem for pc use.
> Mixamp/Schiit/SMSL/Micca origen is out of the question cos of availability issues.


 

 For purely stereo, sure. Just set the headphone output to All Audio.


----------



## Muldeberg

teereqs said:


> Ahh, I see. That makes sense then. A poor mans mod mic, haha. I actually did something similar using a the mic from a Turtle Beach HPX on a pair of Razer Orcas a few years ago. A 3.5mm female to male extension like you linked, should be all you need..and maybe some double sided tape.


 
 Awesome! Ty for the answer, the mod mic is like 80 dollars where I live so I thought I would try this first


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> For purely stereo, sure. Just set the headphone output to All Audio.


 
  
 I was thinking the same although i wasn't sure whether the usb will be detected by PS4 or not....


----------



## Symstic

Hey
  
 i will buy a new headphone/headset for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege pls help me what's ur suggestion ?
  
 i should hear silent players.
   
Max Price : 90$

  
 My english is bad sorry and thanks for interest.


----------



## TeeReQs

symstic said:


> Hey
> 
> i will buy a new headphone/headset for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege pls help me what's ur suggestion ?
> 
> ...


 
 AD700x or HD598's


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> I was thinking the same although i wasn't sure whether the usb will be detected by PS4 or not....



All usb audio devices that support USB Audio Class 1 should work as ling as they do not require a proprietary driver.


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> All usb audio devices that support USB Audio Class 1 should work as ling as they do not require a proprietary driver.


 
  
 So the plug and play method ey? Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> All usb audio devices that support USB Audio Class 1 should work as ling as they do not require a proprietary driver.




It should work. I have an E10k, I'll test it out (late) tonight.


----------



## Emix

evshrug said:


> That's my K612, listening right now with a Mojo and Spotify Premium while waiting for my car inspection. I put a baby seatbelt wrap on it, you can see what brand in the gray oval but I don't think you have to be picky. I've got a bald spot growing every year, but that seatbelt wrap I picked up at a Toy's R Us has been useful to me through 3 AKGs and about 5 years time total.
> 
> I still have my stock earpads, they're not perfect but IMO neither were the DT880 earpads I had. The K712 earpads (flat) were softer than the Q701 earpads (angled), but nothing has beaten a fresh pair of HD800 earpads so far (those are alcantara I think... shure earpads use alcantara too? I think only AKG pads fit the AKG's huge circle). Pads definitely do change with time; compression, oils from your skin, humidity... I think pads get a little bit better with time and fit to your face better, but eventually that peaks and they get more itchy and affect the sound. It's a very slow process... but my 3-year old Q701's definitely were more bassy (and a little slower) than my brand new K712 were. I recommend changing pads every 2 years... or sooner. Some people don't keep headphones longer than 2 years, but I wouldn't buy headphones without replaceable pads because pad wear gradually makes a pretty significant difference.




I used your idea and finally left with k612 pro, returning DT990's. Super comfortable!

Thanks All for your help!


----------



## Sam21

A quick question:
  
 Do all games on ps3/ps4/xbone output 5.1 DTS and Dolby Digital ? or just one of them ?


----------



## overhaze

Quick question. I currently have 4 pairs of headphones: Sennheiser HD650, AKG K702 with the anniversary pads, Sony MDRMA900s, and a pair of used Bose QC35s I bought to give me some silence when I'm having a migraine. Are there any headphones/headsets out there that would give me better gaming performance than what I already have? Philips SHP9500? Philips Fidelio X2? HyperX Cloud Revolver? Any suggestions?


----------



## John Q Lin

I used the th900 for gaming


----------



## overhaze

john q lin said:


> I used the th900 for gaming


 
 Well THATS not happening!


----------



## John Q Lin

overhaze said:


> Quick question. I currently have 4 pairs of headphones: Sennheiser HD650, AKG K702 with the anniversary pads, Sony MDRMA900s, and a pair of used Bose QC35s I bought to give me some silence when I'm having a migraine. Are there any headphones/headsets out there that would give me better gaming performance than what I already have? Philips SHP9500? Philips Fidelio X2? HyperX Cloud Revolver? Any suggestions?



I have both of the Philips, x2 is better.


----------



## John Q Lin

Is hd800 the best gaming headphones?
Anyone care to comment


----------



## lenroot77

john q lin said:


> Is hd800 the best gaming headphones?
> Anyone care to comment




Top of my list! Super huge soundstage, great positioning and micro detail. Super duper comfortable!


----------



## mbyrnes

john q lin said:


> Is hd800 the best gaming headphones?
> Anyone care to comment




For me it depends on what I'm playing. I love my Annies for sound whoring, and overall they're an ok fun headphone. Honesty I'm not playing a lot of games where sound whoring is possible/needed. 

I started a search for a more fun headphone, and the DT990 has served me very well, adding bass and immersion. I recently bought the TH-X00 Ebony, and they are just unreal with music. I haven't gamed much with them, but so far they're my perfect headphone. 

I would suggest to anyone researching a headphone, know your intent and what you REALLY want to achieve with the sound. Personally I think everyone should have a great MP headphone for sound whoring. I highly recommend the AKG K7XX. I've not heard it, but it is extremely close to the Annies, which are fantastic. I more enjoy a bass heavy, highly immersive headphone, and I strongly believe I've found the TH-X00 Ebony to be my ideal overall headphone. The DT990 is another awesome headphone that cost much less, and can probably be demoed at home.

Using the Creative Sound Blaster X7 and the Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL2, this setup has become an endgame surround setup for me. I'm still patiently waiting for an HDMI surround processor/DAC, but until then I'm in heaven. This setup does music exceptionally well as a HUGE bonus.


----------



## lenroot77

I think for the money the k7xx's ( Annie's or k712's for that matter) are the dollar for dollar best buy out there for gaming and movies. 
They're probably the reason I've bought and sold the hd800 twice...for me the hd800 is the pinnacle... but I just have a hard time justifying the 4-6 times cost compared to the K7xx's.


----------



## mbyrnes

For $199 shipped to your door, absolutely the best for game whoring while still enough bass to make it fun. It just walks the line of fun and accurate FPS everything. You have to spend a lot more to get something better.


----------



## rudyae86

lenroot77 said:


> I think for the money the k7xx's ( Annie's or k712's for that matter) are the dollar for dollar best buy out there for gaming and movies.
> They're probably the reason I've bought and sold the hd800 twice...for me the hd800 is the pinnacle... but I just have a hard time justifying the 4-6 times cost compared to the K7xx's.


 
  


mbyrnes said:


> For $199 shipped to your door, absolutely the best for game whoring while still enough bass to make it fun. It just walks the line of fun and accurate FPS everything. You have to spend a lot more to get something better.


 

 I agree.
  
 I have been using the X2 for a while now but now that I have mimic cables adapter so I can use the Vmoda boom pro on my K7XX....I just love the K7XX more than the X2. Don't get me wrong, the X2 is still great but the K7XX just cleans everything up.
  
 I guess the X2s will be used when I play with my PS4 (which happens from time to time). I am just waiting for GT Sport to come out to really make me use it lol.


----------



## Vrodan

I am looking for a new headset for Xbox.  I do have a Mixamp Pro to use with it.  I also need open air too cause i am a single father of a 2 year old so i need to be able to hear her if she needs me.    I play stuff like Skyrim, also play some Battlefield 1, looking forward to Conan Exiles too.  Favorite genre is MMORPGs but since i switched from PC to Xbox i dont have many choices lol.  I do want to be immersed so i do want some bass in it which i have read is a problem with some audiophile headphones but also like to hear the little noises, footsteps, and voices of NPCs clearly.  I am not an audiophile but i know sound in a game does make a huge difference in enjoyment.  My budget is only about 160-170 and i will need a mic too that will work with Xbox and my mixamp.  I know my budget isnt very high though.  Hope that gives you the info you need for what i am looking for in my price range.  Any help would be greatly appreciated for an audiophile noob.


----------



## overhaze

lenroot77 said:


> I think for the money the k7xx's ( Annie's or k712's for that matter) are the dollar for dollar best buy out there for gaming and movies.
> They're probably the reason I've bought and sold the hd800 twice...for me the hd800 is the pinnacle... but I just have a hard time justifying the 4-6 times cost compared to the K7xx's.


 
 Is the any actual difference between the K7xx's and the regular old k702s with the annie pads?


----------



## ProtegeManiac

overhaze said:


> Is the any actual difference between the K7xx's and the regular old k702s with the annie pads?


 
  
 The K7XX comes with the K612 earpads I think. Then again even the K712 comes with flat pads now, no more angled pads.


----------



## themrmikemcd

helvetica bold said:


> Has this been posted, new HyperX w/ USB Dolby.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/hyperx-latest-gaming-headset-makes-71-surround-sound-affordable


ooooh. I had not seen this. Thank you for sharing link! I love hyper X. Only brand of "headset" I will buy. I will have to keep my eye on this one.


----------



## themrmikemcd

overhaze said:


> Quick question. I currently have 4 pairs of headphones: Sennheiser HD650, AKG K702 with the anniversary pads, Sony MDRMA900s, and a pair of used Bose QC35s I bought to give me some silence when I'm having a migraine. Are there any headphones/headsets out there that would give me better gaming performance than what I already have? Philips SHP9500? Philips Fidelio X2? HyperX Cloud Revolver? Any suggestions?


I love my SHP9500S. I alternate between them and the HD668s with modded pads. And for closed I use my Hyper X cloud 2 with astro mix amp. *Note I play on PS4 with astro mix amp.


----------



## nicobombai

themrmikemcd said:


> ooooh. I had not seen this. Thank you for sharing link! I love hyper X. Only brand of "headset" I will buy. I will have to keep my eye on this one.


 
  
 FYI, the dolby program is hardware stuff not software so it allows you to plug and play with it. Great solution if you ask me..


----------



## rudyae86

nicobombai said:


> FYI, the dolby program is hardware stuff not software so it allows you to plug and play with it. Great solution if you ask me..




Are you sure that the USB dongle is receiving a 5.1 or 7.1 signal and sending out virtual surround sound?

Or does this only work for PC?

Sennheiser GSX 1000 does the same but for PC only.


----------



## Evshrug

evshrug said:


> It should work. I have an E10k, I'll test it out (late) tonight.



Testing out the E10k now.

•Yes, it does work connected to the PS4 with USB.
The Volume Control (Headphones) slider in the PS4 settings (settings>Sound/Devices>Volume Control (Headphones) does affect the maximum output volume the E10k can reach.

•With Volume control up to max, the E10k on high gain drives my moderately inefficient AKG K612 to comfortable volume when dialed up to 7... out of 8. Maxing out the volume isn't uncomfortably loud, and clearly the dynamics are lacking and the bass is anemic even with the bass boost switch turned on.

•The PlayStation seems to think the E10k is a USB headset... you know, with a microphone. Which the E10k doesn't have, but that's not a problem if you plug in a USB mic to the PS4 too.

Overall, the E10k is a decent and workable STEREO entry-level option with the PS4, and will be serviceable if you already have one. However, the amp isn't that strong or hi-fi and you will notice it bottlenecking headphones above entry-level and wish for something stronger... the E10k's amp section is only about as powerful as a Mixamp and maybe slightly less powerful than some smartphones.




sam21 said:


> A quick question:
> Do all games on ps3/ps4/xbone output 5.1 DTS and Dolby Digital ? or just one of them ?



All of them output DTS or Dolby Digital if you go to the PS4's sound settings and set it to bitstream Dolby or DTS. The sound settings are at
Settings>Sound and Screen>Audio Output Settings>Audio Format (Priority)




overhaze said:


> Quick question. I currently have 4 pairs of headphones: Sennheiser HD650, AKG K702 with the anniversary pads, Sony MDRMA900s, and a pair of used Bose QC35s I bought to give me some silence when I'm having a migraine. Are there any headphones/headsets out there that would give me better gaming performance than what I already have? Philips SHP9500? Philips Fidelio X2? HyperX Cloud Revolver? Any suggestions?



Well...
The HD650, K702, MDR-MA900, and Fidelio X2 are all different flavors of mid-fi headphones; take your pick based on personal taste.
The SHP9500 and Cloud Revolver headphones are good headphones in the entry-fi tier of headphones. Not an upgrade to the above, unless you specifically need the closed back feature of the HyperX.

Bose is not really classifiable into the above tiers... Bose targets a very unusual and unrealistic tuning in their house sound. Objectively speaking it's the least proficient of the headphones you listed, but it's a closed headphone with noise cancelling and some people just love that blooming muddy bass sound, so it still might be enjoyable.




protegemaniac said:


> The K7XX comes with the K612 earpads I think. Then again even the K712 comes with flat pads now, no more angled pads.



What in the what?
The K612 pads are flat and filled with foam, the K712 pads are half again as thick, filled with softer memory foam, and the velour is a bit softer too. The K712 has always had these pads... I haven't owned the K7XX myself to see which pads it comes with, but by all owner reports I've heard till now it seemed like the K7XX came with the same taller pads as the K712. The K701, K702, and Q701 all come with angled pads that are made of the same materials as the K612 but thicker on the back arc, available for purchase separately if you want to increase the sensation of soundstage size in a pair of K612 (they all have the same bayonet mount and are interchangeable).


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Are you sure that the USB dongle is receiving a 5.1 or 7.1 signal and sending out virtual surround sound?
> 
> Or does this only work for PC?
> 
> Sennheiser GSX 1000 does the same but for PC only.



PC only.


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> Testing out the E10k now.
> 
> •Yes, it does work connected to the PS4 with USB.
> The Volume Control (Headphones) slider in the PS4 settings (settings>Sound/Devices>Volume Control (Headphones) does affect the maximum output volume the E10k can reach.
> ...


 
 Just the answer i have been looking for. Thanks mate!


----------



## Evshrug

^ You're welcome, thanks for being an extra day patient!

For gaming, if I was using portable/easy to drive headphones I'd pick a Sound Blaster E3 instead of the FiiO E10k because the E3 has a microphone, Bluetooth, and is more versatile, or upgrade to a G5 or E5 for the better amp (and portable features + mic in the E5) to be better able to handle future headphone upgrades. The G5/E5 amp is at least twice as powerful.


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> ^ You're welcome, thanks for being an extra day patient!
> 
> For gaming, if I was using portable/easy to drive headphones I'd pick a Sound Blaster E3 instead of the FiiO E10k because the E3 has a microphone, Bluetooth, and is more versatile, or upgrade to a G5 or E5 for the better amp (and portable features + mic in the E5) to be better able to handle future headphone upgrades. The G5/E5 amp is at least twice as powerful.


 
 Fiio is available here plenty. Creative pulled out of the market cos the distributor sucked big time, can't handle the RMA and the responsibilities. Audiophile community here is very small..
 Sucks to be a fan of audio here T.T
 Unless you're willing to pay big bucks for Mojo stuff, which i have no experience on lol


----------



## overhaze

evshrug said:


> Testing out the E10k now.
> 
> •Yes, it does work connected to the PS4 with USB.
> The Volume Control (Headphones) slider in the PS4 settings (settings>Sound/Devices>Volume Control (Headphones) does affect the maximum output volume the E10k can reach.
> ...


 
 Thanks! And the Bose isn't a "listen to music" headphones for me. Its a "oh God every noise is agony let me get these on" headphone. Well that and podcasts!


----------



## Sam21

Do ALL USB mics work with PS3/PS4/Xbone ?


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> PC only.




Oh ok. Though he said it worked for consoles and I was like wuuuuuuuut? Lol


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Fiio is available here plenty. Creative pulled out of the market cos the distributor sucked big time, can't handle the RMA and the responsibilities. Audiophile community here is very small..
> Sucks to be a fan of audio here T.T
> Unless you're willing to pay big bucks for Mojo stuff, which I have no experience on lol



The Mojo...
It costs more, but (at least in the US and EU) it outperforms it's price bracket and is a bargain for everything you get. Easily.





sam21 said:


> Do ALL USB mics work with PS3/PS4/Xbone ?



I'm sure there are exceptions, but all the ones I've tried so far have worked.



rudyae86 said:


> Oh ok. Though he said it worked for consoles and I was like wuuuuuuuut? Lol



Whuuut whuuut!!!


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> The Mojo...
> It costs more, but (at least in the US and EU) it outperforms it's price bracket and is a bargain for everything you get. Easily.
> 
> I'm sure there are exceptions, but all the ones I've tried so far have worked.
> Whuuut whuuut!!!




I just bought an iFi iDSD Micro, and it hangs with the Mojo. I should hook it up to my PS4 to see how it sounds. 

Just another option if someone wants a powerful (trans)portable amp, and doesn't require full-on surround processing.


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> The Mojo...
> It costs more, but (at least in the US and EU) it outperforms it's price bracket and is a bargain for everything you get. Easily.


 
 Well i haven't reached up to that level yet lol. Still rocking the DT770 + fiio K1 for now.
 Hopefully i will have the chance to use mojo later on.


----------



## John Q Lin

What's the difference between the X2 and akg 7xx


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Well i haven't reached up to that level yet lol. Still rocking the DT770 + fiio K1 for now.
> Hopefully i will have the chance to use mojo later on.



Hey, that's all fine! I started in 2009 with an Audio Technica AD700, and a FiiO E5 just to control the volume from the RCA outputs of my Xbox! The store even made a mistake on my AD700 (repeatedly for a month), so I ended up only spending like $80 for the kit, another $6 for the lapel Mic and plug adapter for my 360 controller.

Good news for you is that DT770 scales up very well with amplification and DAC upgrades, so you can hold onto that for awhile if/while you build up your system. Aaaaand from experience, the DT770 sounds very Liquid but true and exciting from a Mojo! (The DT770 is slightly treble-brittle to me, but not horrible and overall the headphone is a great value, especially with a synergistic system or a little treble EQ).




john q lin said:


> What's the difference between the X2 and akg 7xx



Well, they're both balanced between analytical and musical, though the X2 leans a bit more towards colored and the K7xx more towards accurate. Neither is a deficient headphone, just ask yourself if you want a little more soundstage and accuracy (K7XX) or a little more bass and fun (x2).


----------



## Azurik

shuto77 said:


> I just bought an iFi iDSD Micro, and it hangs with the Mojo. I should hook it up to my PS4 to see how it sounds.
> 
> Just another option if someone wants a powerful (trans)portable amp, and doesn't require full-on surround processing.




Have you had a chance to test the mojo with the PS4? If so, did you use it via optical? Does the PS4 recognise it over USB?


----------



## Evshrug

azurik said:


> Have you had a chance to test the mojo with the PS4? If so, did you use it via optical? Does the PS4 recognise it over USB?



I had to set the PS4 to PCM output instead of Dolby bitstream, but yeah it worked pretty great over optical! I think I used it with USB too without having to change any settings, but honestly I forget for sure. I can try it out tonight, I've got another new toy to test out anyway ^_^


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> Hey, that's all fine! I started in 2009 with an Audio Technica AD700, and a FiiO E5 just to control the volume from the RCA outputs of my Xbox! The store even made a mistake on my AD700 (repeatedly for a month), so I ended up only spending like $80 for the kit, another $6 for the lapel Mic and plug adapter for my 360 controller.
> 
> Good news for you is that DT770 scales up very well with amplification and DAC upgrades, so you can hold onto that for awhile if/while you build up your system. Aaaaand from experience, the DT770 sounds very Liquid but true and exciting from a Mojo! (The DT770 is slightly treble-brittle to me, but not horrible and overall the headphone is a great value, especially with a synergistic system or a little treble EQ).


 
  
 Ah thanks again for the word of confidence 
 I thinking about upgrading in the coming month, any suggestions in the $100-200 bracket?
 I saw the Schiit magni/modi stack, SMSL 793 & Micca Origen, they look like a viable option.


----------



## mbyrnes

evshrug said:


> I had to set the PS4 to PCM output instead of Dolby bitstream, but yeah it worked pretty great over optical! I think I used it with USB too without having to change any settings, but honestly I forget for sure. I can try it out tonight, I've got another new toy to test out anyway ^_^


 
 New Toy? interesting, lol


----------



## L J EDM

Thanks for this guide.
  
 I was just about to buy a pair of HyperX Cloud II's for Xbox One gaming, when I stumbled across this. Honestly it has confused me further. I have £100 to spend and am now unsure whether to stick with the HyperX or go for a separate mic and headset combo?
  
 Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

l j edm said:


> Thanks for this guide.
> 
> I was just about to buy a pair of HyperX Cloud II's for Xbox One gaming, when I stumbled across this. Honestly it has confused me further. I have £100 to spend and am now unsure whether to stick with the HyperX or go for a separate mic and headset combo?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 The HyperX Cloud should provide about the best audio quality you could expect, for 100 GBP budget.


----------



## L J EDM

purpleangel said:


> The HyperX Cloud should provide about the best audio quality you could expect, for 100 GBP budget.




Thanks, I would go a little higher if it meant a good jump in sound quality. 

If I went with a separate mic and headset, would I also need a mixamp? Sorry if this has been asked, there's a lot of content here.

Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

l j edm said:


> Thanks, I would go a little higher if it meant a good jump in sound quality.
> If I went with a separate mic and headset, would I also need a mix-amp? Sorry if this has been asked, there's a lot of content here.


 
  
 Your going to have to spend a fair bit more, to get a noticeable improvement in audio quality.
 If this setup is for a gaming console, then I would try to talk you into getting a Mix-amp.


----------



## themrmikemcd

l j edm said:


> Thanks, I would go a little higher if it meant a good jump in sound quality.
> 
> If I went with a separate mic and headset, would I also need a mixamp? Sorry if this has been asked, there's a lot of content here.
> 
> Thanks


You are going to want a mix amp for console use for sure. With PS4 specifically, pluging it into the controller will never be loud enough for any headphone. I dont know about X Box. I have the hyper X 2s for my PS4 and the astro mix amp and I love them.


----------



## Evshrug

l j edm said:


> Thanks, I would go a little higher if it meant a good jump in sound quality.
> 
> If I went with a separate mic and headset, would I also need a mixamp? Sorry if this has been asked, there's a lot of content here.
> 
> Thanks



For PS4, you don't necessarily NEED a Mixamp... you can plug a USB mic straight into the PS4, and then connect any headphone in the usual way. Or, you can get a USB dongle with a headphone and microphone output plug, like the $5 Syba available on Amazon.

*HOWEVER*
You haven't experienced what headphone gaming has to offer until you try it with a Surround processor, such as the Mixamp, Turtle Beach DSS models or TAC, or the mac-daddy-top-of-the-pile Creative SoundBlaster X7. Each have their advantages, I own or have used most of them, search YouTube for my username (EvShrug) and encourage me to finish making my series, lol!

I'm a little distracted from videos right now though, as I'll explain in a second...


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Ah thanks again for the word of confidence
> I thinking about upgrading in the coming month, any suggestions in the $100-200 bracket?
> I saw the Schiit magni/modi stack, SMSL 793 & Micca Origen, they look like a viable option.


 I've been on a roll of making posts helpful to you lately, lol! Thanks for the rep!

I haven't heard SMSL or Micca Producs (though I do know Micca was the best store to buy FiiO products; often came with bonus extras!), and I have heard my friend's Schiit Stack. The M&M combos have been solid choices over the years, though their success has overshadowed other viable options and sometimes I think they're a bit of a bright pairing for some of the most-recommended gaming headphones (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser HD598, anything that's already a bit bright). I really like FiiO's offerings too, iFi, Matrix M-Audio, Garage1216 amps, and other stuff I'll add to this post in an edit after dinner. Just... Schiit is good, but not the only option.


----------



## mbyrnes

l j edm said:


> Thanks, I would go a little higher if it meant a good jump in sound quality.
> 
> If I went with a separate mic and headset, would I also need a mixamp? Sorry if this has been asked, there's a lot of content here.
> 
> Thanks


 
 Search for a used Mixamp in Britain. I am not sure of the websites there, but you may find a 2011 Astro Mix Amp on the cheap, and it performs better than some of the newer ones. Ebay is great here, and Craigslist for local in the USA. Surround Sound is IMO a must for headphone gaming. Even if not right away, make it a goal for yourself. 
  
 I would look for easier to drive headphones, meaning lower impedance (32 ohm, etc). The Mixamp and the PS4 controller (I don't own a PS4 yet) should be much louder, and suitable with a headphone like that. If you buy something harder to drive, like the AKG K7XX (62 ohm, but deceptively power hungry), you'll need to double amp with an external headphone amp, like Schiit Magni.
  
 Read throught the Guide a few times. Let it sink in, and you'll understand more of it. Mad Lust Envy did a great job with his reviews, and most have amping needs in them. Ask questions here as much as you like if you need help. We are all glad to help someone get on the right path! welcome!


----------



## Evshrug

purpleangel said:


> The HyperX Cloud should provide about the best audio quality you could expect, for 100 GBP budget.







purpleangel said:


> Your going to have to spend a fair bit more, to get a noticeable improvement in audio quality.
> If this setup is for a gaming console, then I would try to talk you into getting a Mix-amp.







mbyrnes said:


> New Toy? interesting, lol




NDA embargo is up! Massdrop contacted me and sent a sample of their new collaboration with Sennheiser, the PC67X! New thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/832041/sennheiser-x-massdrop-pc37x-review-discussion/0_30

So far, I'm quite liking it! I haven't heard the pretty well regarded HD360 or HD598 before, but this takes Sennnheiser's $250 PC370, drops the in-line DAC/Amp so you can use your own, all black colorway, and the price hits down to $120! This is gonna sell like hot cakes, first impressions after dinner!


----------



## mbyrnes

I just got the email from Massdrop, lol. Heading to your thread now....


----------



## TeeReQs

Beat me to it! I was just about to post that i got the email haha. I'm actually in the middle of reading your sparkos opamps review @mbyrnes 
  
 Looking forward to your impressions @Evshrug. Looks like I might be buying another set of cans...


----------



## lenroot77

teereqs said:


> Beat me to it! I was just about to post that i got the email haha. I'm actually in the middle of reading your sparkos opamps review @mbyrnes
> 
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions @Evshrug
> . Looks like I might be buying another set of cans...




Meh, sennheiser sells "these types" of headsets multiple times a year at this price... now a 100 dollars would be worth the mass drop wait and wild ship dates.

Sorry I replied directly to your quote. I don't want you to think I was directing my distaste twords you.


----------



## Yethal

Mine should arrive tomorrow, Fedex shipping strikes again.
   
 Quote:


lenroot77 said:


> Meh, sennheiser sells "these types" of headsets multiple times a year at this price... now a 100 dollars would be worth the mass drop wait and wild ship dates.


 
 It's a refresh of a refresh of a refresh of HD598 with a microphone but for 120$ it's a steal considering the fact that HD598 can go as far as 150$ new.


----------



## mbyrnes

teereqs said:


> Beat me to it! I was just about to post that i got the email haha. I'm actually in the middle of reading your sparkos opamps review @mbyrnes
> 
> 
> Looking forward to your impressions @Evshrug
> . Looks like I might be buying another set of cans...




This is why I love you guys. It's news that is so important it has to be posted ASAP! I, and I'm sure everyone else, cares less about being first, and getting the info here is important so our fellow Head-fiers just know about a super deal.


----------



## lenroot77

yethal said:


> Mine should arrive tomorrow, Fedex shipping strikes again.
> It's a refresh of a refresh of a refresh of HD598 with a microphone but for 120$ it's a steal considering the fact that HD598 can go as far as 150$ new.




If you don't buy it for 99 around Christmas or less on the classifieds. Like you said it's a refresh of a refresh of a refresh. That's problem...it's old news.


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> Meh, sennheiser sells "these types" of headsets multiple times a year at this price... now a 100 dollars would be worth the mass drop wait and wild ship dates.
> 
> Sorry I replied directly to your quote. I don't want you to think I was directing my distaste twords you.




I bought the PC360 headset for something like $250 when it released. The microphone on it is actually pretty darn good. Strapped to a 598 or so, you can't beat this price, especially if you're just starting out. 

I don't expect the seasoned veterans to be interested, as they probably have gear far beyond this. But when a ModMic is $70 now, and a decent headphone is $130 or so, $119 is a steal. Just my opinion, but this is truly a great deal for those just beginning. You've got to spend considerably more to equal the performance.


----------



## lenroot77

mbyrnes said:


> I bought the PC360 headset for something like $250 when it released. The microphone on it is actually pretty darn good. Strapped to a 598 or so, you can't beat this price, especially if you're just starting out.
> 
> I don't expect the seasoned veterans to be interested, as they probably have gear far beyond this. But when a ModMic is $70 now, and a decent headphone is $130 or so, $119 is a steal. Just my opinion, but this is truly a great deal for those just beginning. You've got to spend considerably more to equal the performance.




Yes is totally a nice headset at price. I've had multiple over the years. I've never paid over 130 myself. I guess that's why I don't see this as much of a deal especially with the "massdrop wait".


----------



## Yethal

I tried convincing several of my friends to use headphones+mic instead of gaming headsets and those who remained adamant used the same argument over and over again.
  
"I want an all-in-one solution, not a DIY."​  
 While I don't necessarily agree with that mindset I understand where it's coming from and for those people, gear like this is perfect. Technically, still a gaming headset but without the cringy design, weak drivers and bloated bass. Also, it costs as much as Astro A40


----------



## shuto77

I just picked up a BNIB Blue Snowball locally for $15. I think it was an unwanted Christmas gift. 

Who's playing multi-player on ps4 right now?


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> Meh, sennheiser sells "these types" of headsets multiple times a year at this price... now a 100 dollars would be worth the mass drop wait and wild ship dates.
> 
> Sorry I replied directly to your quote. I don't want you to think I was directing my distaste twords you.


 
 Haha, no problem. I guess I technically already have this headset, since I have a HD598 w/ a boom mic cable. I was thinking $120 was pretty good deal though, since I remember the PC360 going for $200-250. I'd say at this price point, it makes going with say a hyper x vs a 598 or ad700 with mod mic a little easier decision. I'd say this is a good middle ground option. 
  
 edit: I guess I missed the key info about how the inline DAC/Amp isn't in this version, which makes sense on the price point. Doh!
  


mbyrnes said:


> This is why I love you guys. It's news that is so important it has to be posted ASAP! I, and I'm sure everyone else, cares less about being first, and getting the info here is important so our fellow Head-fiers just know about a super deal.


 
 It's all about spreading the information. I hate when people post _first_ on a video or post. What does that accomplish? 
  
 I've visited this thread so many times through the years, and gathered tons of information regarding headsets, and virtual surround. The wealth of information available on here without even posting anything is invaluable. Heck, I didn't even make an account on Head-Fi until the latter end of last year.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> I tried convincing several of my friends to use headphones+mic instead of gaming headsets and those who remained adamant used the same argument over and over again.
> 
> "I want an all-in-one solution, not a DIY."​
> While I don't necessarily agree with that mindset I understand where it's coming from and for those people, gear like this is perfect. Technically, still a gaming headset but without the cringy design, weak drivers and bloated bass. Also, it costs as much as Astro A40




This drives me crazy. I hear you on rational talks with friends and losing. A fight not worth dying for. Let them have their solution, even if better exist. Explaining audio to a non interested person is one of the hardest conversations to ever have. To you it makes complete, rational and scientific sense. To them it's trigonometry, confusing and irrational in everyday life. Lol


----------



## mbyrnes

teereqs said:


> Haha, no problem. I guess I technically already have this headset, since I have a HD598 w/ a boom mic cable. I was thinking $120 was pretty good deal though, since I remember the PC360 going for $200-250. I'd say at this price point, it makes going with say a hyper x vs a 598 or ad700 with mod mic a little easier decision. I'd say this is a good middle ground option.
> 
> It's all about spreading the information. I hate when people post _first_ on a video or post. What does that accomplish?
> 
> I've visited this thread so many times through the years, and gathered tons of information regarding headsets, and virtual surround. The wealth of information available on here without even posting anything is invaluable. Heck, I didn't even make an account on Head-Fi until the latter end of last year.




Glad you joined proper. I enjoy your posts, and we all can contribute in some way. Even the brand new, noob, can ask questions that you don't know the answer to. Someone chimes in, you learn something new, and are now more informed. It's an awesome process truly. We learn from everyone.


----------



## overhaze

I kind of want a pair of Philips Fidelio X2s (Zeos enthusiasm is infectious) but they are hard to get in Ireland and quite expensive. I could actually get a pair of AKG k712 Pros for a about $40 less. Also given my trio of HD650, K702s with Annie pads and Sony MDRMA900s I just don't know if they would be worth the money for gaming/music performance. Speaking of the AKG k712 Pros is there any actual difference between them and the K702s with Annie pads? I've never got a clear answer.


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> I just picked up a BNIB Blue Snowball locally for $15. I think it was an unwanted Christmas gift.
> 
> Who's playing multi-player on ps4 right now?




Now that's a deal! Geez talk about a jackpot.


----------



## Evshrug

mbyrnes said:


> I bought the PC360 headset for something like $250 when it released. The microphone on it is actually pretty darn good. Strapped to a 598 or so, you can't beat this price, especially if you're just starting out.
> 
> I don't expect the seasoned veterans to be interested, as they probably have gear far beyond this. But when a ModMic is $70 now, and a decent headphone is $130 or so, $119 is a steal. Just my opinion, but this is truly a great deal for those just beginning. You've got to spend considerably more to equal the performance.



This^
This^ is getting it. The microphone is a pretty nice low-distance directional noise cancelling mic... not the only one of it's kind, but it's nice. I'm an advocate of using a USB desktop mic like the Blue Snowball, but that isn't suited well for couch-gaming (with basically any background noise) without some creativity. And once a year, Black Friday, the HD598 has been on sale for $100. Black Friday is a long way off again, so I don't see a Black Friday price as a standard price when it isn't obtainable for most of the year.

And I'm not even sure if it's a "pure" HD598 SE with a mic slapped on. Does the HD598 have angled drivers? Also, I'm not hearing the bass-light airy sound people talk about in HD598 reviews, it doesn't seem lacking in this area playing music straight from my phone (though I like the bass enhancer feature on my X7). The HD598 also has a pleather-wrapped headband pad while the PC67X is covered in velour, very thick but squishy. Passes my "balding head" test! And it sure sounds like an open headphone, I can hear my wife and the front door opening just fine, but I was laying down next to my wife listening to music and she couldn't hear anything leaking.

Here's how I was listening to it on Tuesday, the night it arrived: 









shuto77 said:


> I just picked up a BNIB Blue Snowball locally for $15. I think it was an unwanted Christmas gift.
> 
> Who's playing multi-player on ps4 right now?




Hey, GREAT price! What'cha playing? Maybe we should join up, maybe Twitch stream our testing of our new stuff


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> This drives me crazy. I hear you on rational talks with friends and losing. A fight not worth dying for. Let them have their solution, even if better exist. Explaining audio to a non interested person is one of the hardest conversations to ever have. To you it makes complete, rational and scientific sense. To them it's trigonometry, confusing and irrational in everyday life. Lol


 
  
 Haha so true. I have one friend who understands it all, and i actually bought him a DSS2 and some Hyper X's so he'd have a decent setup to game with, and isolate the noise from his children, but he still can't quite understand why I need 6 pairs of headphones
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, and neither does my girlfriend, but that's a whole other topic as you know haha. I cringe when people spend $50 + on a cheap Turtle beach headset, when you can pay just a little more and have something so much better. To each their own though. It's hard to convince otherwise without physically having them touch and feel.


mbyrnes said:


> Glad you joined proper. I enjoy your posts, and we all can contribute in some way. Even the brand new, noob, can ask questions that you don't know the answer to. Someone chimes in, you learn something new, and are now more informed. It's an awesome process truly. We learn from everyone.


 
 Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm glad I joined as well. It's been nice contributing (even if it's just a little bit), and reading everyone else's contributions. I'm still working my way through your review as I wind down this work day. This is definitely one of the better, and more civil, online communities out there, and I thank you all for that. Now, back to headphones!


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> This^
> This^ is getting it. The microphone is a pretty nice low-distance directional noise cancelling mic... not the only one of it's kind, but it's nice. I'm an advocate of using a USB desktop mic like the Blue Snowball, but that isn't suited well for couch-gaming (with basically any background noise) without some creativity. And once a year, Black Friday, the HD598 has been on sale for $100. Black Friday is a long way off again, so I don't see a Black Friday price as a standard price when it isn't obtainable for most of the year.
> 
> And I'm not even sure if it's a "pure" HD598 SE with a mic slapped on. Does the HD598 have angled drivers? Also, I'm not hearing the bass-light airy sound people talk about in HD598 reviews, it doesn't seem lacking in this area playing music straight from my phone (though I like the bass enhancer feature on my X7). The HD598 also has a pleather-wrapped headband pad while the PC67X is covered in velour, very thick but squishy. Passes my "balding head" test!
> ...




Yeah, buddy. 

I'm (still) playing The Witcher 3. What are you playing?


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Yeah, buddy.
> 
> I'm (still) playing The Witcher 3. What are you playing?



I was thinking of steaming an FPS like Destiny or Something for Twitch, but we can still party chat.

Where is my copy of CoD: Ghost? Great sound cues, less chaos in Gun Game than BO3 has in typical TDM matches...

Edit: and where are you? Thought I had you on my friend's list! EvShrug on PSN too.

Twitch stream!!
https://www.twitch.tv/evshrug


----------



## Evshrug

Yessss, the surround twitch streaming is going well, hahah. I get silly when I hear myself.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> I was thinking of steaming an FPS like Destiny or Something for Twitch, but we can still party chat.
> 
> Where is my copy of CoD: Ghost? Great sound cues, less chaos in Gun Game than BO3 has in typical TDM matches...
> 
> ...




I'm shuto_whomp on psn. We're friends, I just haven't been playing Destiny.


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> I've been on a roll of making posts helpful to you lately, lol! Thanks for the rep!
> 
> I haven't heard SMSL or Micca Producs (though I do know Micca was the best store to buy FiiO products; often came with bonus extras!), and I have heard my friend's Schiit Stack. The M&M combos have been solid choices over the years, though their success has overshadowed other viable options and sometimes I think they're a bit of a bright pairing for some of the most-recommended gaming headphones (AKG, Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser HD598, anything that's already a bit bright). I really like FiiO's offerings too, iFi, Matrix M-Audio, Garage1216 amps, and other stuff I'll add to this post in an edit after dinner. Just... Schiit is good, but not the only option.


 
  
 Ahh ic, will have a look into it when i start upgrading 
  


evshrug said:


> NDA embargo is up! Massdrop contacted me and sent a sample of their new collaboration with Sennheiser, the PC67X! New thread:
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/832041/sennheiser-x-massdrop-pc37x-review-discussion/0_30
> 
> So far, I'm quite liking it! I haven't heard the pretty well regarded HD360 or HD598 before, but this takes Sennnheiser's $250 PC370, drops the in-line DAC/Amp so you can use your own, all black colorway, and the price hits down to $120! This is gonna sell like hot cakes, first impressions after dinner!


 
  
 Urghhhhh.. More options, making me wanna switch from DT770 lol. $120 is a steal...
 Do you know when these will drop? like in a few months or end of feb or....


----------



## AxelCloris

New toy came in today. I've been very much looking forward to this one.


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Ahh ic, will have a look into it when i start upgrading
> 
> 
> Urghhhhh.. More options, making me wanna switch from DT770 lol. $120 is a steal...
> Do you know when these will drop? like in a few months or end of feb or....



January 17th



axelcloris said:


> New toy came in today. I've been very much looking forward to this one.



Playing with it yet?? Link to Impressions pweese


----------



## shuto77

axelcloris said:


> New toy came in today. I've been very much looking forward to this one.







evshrug said:


> January 17th
> Playing with it yet?? Link to Impressions pweese




Even if it's not completely fab, I'm glad Sennheiser was smart enough to join this space. 

When you think about it, it's kinda weird no one is catering to gamers who want a really high-end setup. I feel as though it would be pretty easy for one of the big avr manufacturers to just pair up with Fiio, iBasso or iFi, to just replace their speaker amps with a mid-range headphone amp? 

It would be so dope if my Denon avr's headphone output sounded like my iFi idsd. 

Not sure if my thoughts make total sense, but, yeah, I'm glad this product exists.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> January 17th
> Playing with it yet?? Link to Impressions pweese




Seems like you never read about my impressions....  sad panda lol jk

Regarding the new PC37X, day 1 buy for me lol. I have 2 HD598 with me, the original and the Special Edition. I have used the SE for time to time and really likethe airy sound but I prefer my K7XX simply because I want a tad more bass for my music and games.

I am already using my X2 less and less now for gaming but since I will be using my PS4 more often once GT Sport comes out, X2 will have it's good use there.

Also may I ask, does the new Massdrop/Sennheiser PC37X have any distortion/rattle like issues?

Hear me for a sec because the G4ME One was a slight utter fail for me simply because i went through 4 pairs and either the left driver would have distortion/rattle or the right side. Quite a few people reported this with the G4ME while others said they didn't have it. But it also seems that it would happen when a good amp was being used with the G4ME ONE. 

So this is why I am asking about the PC37X because I don't want to go throughthe same thing again lol


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Seems like you never read about my impressions....  sad panda lol jk



I did! What I forgot was if Sennheiser has a GSX 1000 and also a GSX 1200 PRO. But you said it was pretty good, kinda not-strong amp and only a little less hiss than the Mixamp? Correct me!



> Regarding the new PC37X, day 1 buy for me lol. I have 2 HD598 with me, the original and the Special Edition. I have used the SE for time to time and really likethe airy sound but I prefer my K7XX simply because I want a tad more bass for my music and games.
> 
> Also may I ask, does the new Massdrop/Sennheiser PC37X have any distortion/rattle like issues?


 No, no rattle/distortion issues.
The treble isn't as smooth as the HD800 (of course), but it's about the same as the HD600 and HD650's I've heard. It's a pretty sparkly treble though, gave me the shivers (good shivers) during some magic music moments.
I haven't heard the HD598 though, and I would like to compare them to these PC37X as they share drivers. I wonder how close-sounding they are? Maybe we can work something out over PM.

Also, after 3 and a half hours of streaming some "sweaty" twitch competitive play, I need a break, ha! Thanks to everyone who stopped by


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> January 17th
> Playing with it yet?? Link to Impressions pweese


 
  
 Nope, not yet. It's getting unboxed and setup tomorrow.
  


shuto77 said:


> Even if it's not completely fab, I'm glad Sennheiser was smart enough to join this space.
> 
> When you think about it, it's kinda weird no one is catering to gamers who want a really high-end setup. I feel as though it would be pretty easy for one of the big avr manufacturers to just pair up with Fiio, iBasso or iFi, to just replace their speaker amps with a mid-range headphone amp?
> 
> ...


 
  
 Not completely fab? I've been looking forward to this thing since it was announced. I am very excited, can't wait to use it and see how it performs.
  
 We're seeing more high end makers entering/getting back into gaming this year. It shows promise for the future of the industry.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I did! What I forgot was if Sennheiser has a GSX 1000 and also a GSX 1200 PRO. But you said it was pretty good, kinda not-strong amp and only a little less hiss than the Mixamp? Correct me!
> No, no rattle/distortion issues.
> The treble isn't as smooth as the HD800 (of course), but it's about the same as the HD600 and HD650's I've heard. It's a pretty sparkly treble though, gave me the shivers (good shivers) during some magic music moments.
> I haven't heard the HD598 though, and I would like to compare them to these PC37X as they share drivers. I wonder how close-sounding they are? Maybe we can work something out over PM.
> ...




Yeah I pretty much said about the GSX 1000. I said more but can't remember what I typed lol. I didn't care much for the GSX 12000 because all it really has is daisy chaining for those that want to connect several GSX 1200, just like the Mix Amp Pro. Other than thay, both are identical, at least on paper that is.

As for the PC37X, good to hear it is not having those problems. If I recall more correctly about that Distortion/rattle/buzz, it usually would happen when there was low end kciking in, as if it was too much for the G4ME ONE to handle. Compared to my HD598s...they don't show that kind of buzz or distortion when the low end hits.

But dammit, I will be short $120 next week lol

And PM me whenever you want to EVs


----------



## freshmind

I can buy Soundblaster X7 about 289$ and gsx 1200 pro about 229$. 
  
 Which one will be better ? I think gsx is overpriced for what it gives. But each one has different VSS processor/DSP.
  
 If I didn't need extras (which is lot) on X7 , only Virtual Surround aspect which one will be better ? 
  
 Anyone tried both ? 
  
 BTW Smith Realiser A16


----------



## Fegefeuer

the VST of the Sennheiser is coupled with the device and there is no way to circumvent its inferior design and SQ. You buy and die with the whole package.. 
  
 X7 is totally superior, it offers plenty of connectivity and works both on PC and consoles. Even when you want to avoid its DAC and amp because you are running a high end chain you totally can. You are closed in with the Sennheiser, it's an island you can only escape by selling it. Not worth the VST at all by being limited and crippled with this lowly device that can barely support decent midrange headphones. 
  
 I wouldn't give my money to Sennheiser here, they need to do a better job. 229€ is a joke.


----------



## TeeReQs

freshmind said:


> I can buy Soundblaster X7 about 289$ and gsx 1200 pro about 229$.
> 
> Which one will be better ? I think gsx is overpriced for what it gives. But each one has different VSS processor/DSP.
> 
> ...


 
 I haven't tried the GSX, but from what I've gathered is that the surround processing is great, and some say better than SBX or Dolby Headphone. The Amp/DAC is is the weak link. As an all in one solution for a powerful amp/dac combo and the ability to hook up to both PC and console, the X7 wins for me.


----------



## raband

axelcloris said:


> New toy came in today. I've been very much looking forward to this one.


 
  
 Ordered mine a few days before Xmas.
  
 "Products usually ship within 3 days"
  
 Still at "fulfilment started".
  
 Emailed asking ETA - no reply.


----------



## Sam21

I doubt it can beat x7 though....


----------



## rudyae86

raband said:


> Ordered mine a few days before Xmas.
> 
> "Products usually ship within 3 days"
> 
> ...




If you want to get the GSX 1000 instead of the GSX 1200, you can get it at overstock for $166. Maybe they will ship it sooner


----------



## raband

rudyae86 said:


> If you want to get the GSX 1000 instead of the GSX 1200, you can get it at overstock for $166. Maybe they will ship it sooner


 
  
 Sorry, was the GSX1000 I've ordered.
 Looks like a great price.


----------



## raband

sam21 said:


> I doubt it can beat x7 though....


 
  
 From the sample clips of it in gameplay the frontal cues seem far better for me than I've ever had on the X7 (or any other virtual solution)


----------



## Sam21

At least, for objectively comparing them, we should know what DAC&AMP chip the GSX1000 uses....Creative has disclosed what chips they use in X7....


----------



## Fegefeuer

read it wrong


----------



## HiCZoK

So anyone found something to upgrade from Koss Porta pro?
 I absolutely love the warm bassy sound and comfort but wonder if I am missing out on other similar on ear headphones


----------



## shuto77

hiczok said:


> So anyone found something to upgrade from Koss Porta pro?
> I absolutely love the warm bassy sound and comfort but wonder if I am missing out on other similar on ear headphones


 
  
 What's your price range, what are you driving them with, and what's your gaming/music/tv ratio (time spent doing each activity)?
  
 On-ears are tough, especially low-cost ones. Beyerdynamic makes some relatively affordable good on-ears.


----------



## L J EDM

Someone on massdrop told me that the soundstage of the AKG K612pro headphones aren't too good, and that I'd get more immersion from the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X Gaming Headset. 
Yet MLE, states that AKG K612pro has great soundstage. This has got me rather confused.


----------



## Evshrug

l j edm said:


> Someone on massdrop told me that the soundstage of the AKG K612pro headphones aren't too good, and that I'd get more immersion from the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X Gaming Headset.
> Yet MLE, states that AKG K612pro has great soundstage. This has got me rather confused.




LOL, the K612 has pretty big soundstage, very nice positional imaging. Maybe if you connect it directly to a Mixamp or other weak amp (the DSS/DSS2 is decent, but there are better amps out there), but an accurate DAC + clean strong amp + K612 = excellent soundstage, the only thing keeping the soundstage from being elite is that it doesn't have artificially weak bass to increase the sense of air and pinpoint focus, and it's also not an HD800. Going elite soundstage requires sacrificing a full, well-rounded sound (or having a super expensive, well-designed headphone), and yet a well-driven K612 is very satisfyingly full it still is in a rarified space of really good soundstage.


----------



## Yethal

l j edm said:


> Someone on massdrop told me that the soundstage of the AKG K612pro headphones aren't too good, and that I'd get more immersion from the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X Gaming Headset.
> Yet MLE, states that AKG K612pro has great soundstage. This has got me rather confused.



PC37X has amazing soundstage. Can't compare to k612 though as I haven't heard them.


----------



## lenroot77

While I haven't heard the k612's... any of the other open akg open backs I have heard have a larger soundstage than the sennheiser headsets/ 5xx series. This is not to dog the sennheisers I feel for gaming they are right at the top below akg. As Evshrug said the hd800 is elite!


----------



## mbyrnes

l j edm said:


> Someone on massdrop told me that the soundstage of the AKG K612pro headphones aren't too good, and that I'd get more immersion from the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X Gaming Headset.
> Yet MLE, states that AKG K612pro has great soundstage. This has got me rather confused.


 
  
 Yeah I wouldn't worry about what that guy said. The K612s, if they are even remotely close to the K702/K712/K7XX, which I have read that they are, you have GREAT sound stage. I would think that the PC37X is also great for gaming, and initial impressions I have read seem to say the same. I would think the K612 is better than the PC37X, but I wouldn't know without hearing both.


----------



## Change is Good

The PC37X does seem intriguing and I may pick one up. Seems perfect for a couch gamer like myself who prefers using a simple setup like the mixamp 5.8 plus (add Boompro compatible headphone here). This removes the need of the Boompro and makes the setup even cleaner. Using the X00 and 400i with my Boompro adapter has been a blast but I need a main gaming headphone/headset to lessen the wear I've been placing on those babies. I mean, they're still like new. I just want to keep them like new for as long as possible and, as much as I game, that won't happen. I miss the 9500.

What I really want to see, however, is a MDxSenn version of the HD800! First the HD6XX. Now the PC37X. So, why not the HD8XX!?!


----------



## Ripkabird98

I was directed here from a thread I started.

 Budget: 100-175 (Willing to buy used, Amazon or otherwise)

 Source: PC, (no DAC/AMP) PS4, Laptop, Mobile phone, PS Vita
*MUST *be closed back

 I used to have a pair of Hyperx Cloud 2s, which at first sounded amazing, but as I got adjusted, started sounding "eh." I plan on buying a Modmic/V-MODA mic, so no headset needed.

 Comfort and sound matter most, style is irrelevant. Will be used for gaming (Mostly casual, some minor competitive, so "decent" sound positioning is required, but great immersive capability for games like ARMA/BF1 is needed), movies, general usage (Skype, YouTube, etc). 

 Now for music. I have no idea what I want as far as sound signature. I listen to Pop, Rap, Indie, Electro, Alternative, and a lot of Rock/Heavy Metal. I'd prefer something that works for everything from Ellie Goulding, Ed Sheeran and The Chainsmokers, to K.Flay, to Eminem and Tech N9ne, to The Ghost Inside and Thy Art is Murder. I "assume" all this means fairly bass heavy. I don't need award winning anything, but I want at least "good" for Highs, Lows, AND mids. 

 I appreciate any help!


----------



## Change is Good

ripkabird98 said:


> I was directed here from a thread I started.
> 
> Budget: 100-175 (Willing to buy used, Amazon or otherwise)
> 
> ...


 
  
 I still have yet to hear a better closed headphone under $200 than the Soundmagic HP100/150. It's currently $129 on Amazon.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/SoundMAGIC-HP150-Premium-Folding-Headphones/dp/B00NF5SF3Q
  
 Another one that @Yethal may recommend is the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. Never heard it myself but have read good things for its price range. Always wanted to try one myself.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> I still have yet to hear a better closed headphone under $200 than the Soundmagic HP100/150. It's currently $129 on Amazon.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/SoundMAGIC-HP150-Premium-Folding-Headphones/dp/B00NF5SF3Q
> 
> ...



I heard the HP150 briefly on an audio show back in November, I'd say the COP is very similar but has an added benefit of having adjustable bass and parts interchangeable with all other Beyerdynamic headphones.


----------



## freshmind

raband said:


> From the sample clips of it in gameplay the frontal cues seem far better for me than I've ever had on the X7 (or any other virtual solution)


 
 Can you post those sample clips ? Especially GSX ...
  
 I am triying to pick one of them. Those clips would be very helpful to me.


----------



## HiCZoK

shuto77 said:


> What's your price range, what are you driving them with, and what's your gaming/music/tv ratio (time spent doing each activity)?
> 
> On-ears are tough, especially low-cost ones. Beyerdynamic makes some relatively affordable good on-ears.


 
 Price range is rather little. Since Koss porta pro is so cheap, I don't feel like spending more than let's say what px100 is worth, so maybe 70-80.
 I have e10k. I mostly play games 50%, youtube 30%, music 20%


----------



## lenroot77

hiczok said:


> Price range is rather little. Since Koss porta pro is so cheap, I don't feel like spending more than let's say what px100 is worth, so maybe 70-80.
> I have e10k. I mostly play games 50%, youtube 30%, music 20%




You might wanna look into the Creative Aurvana Live. Excellent for the money and very versatile. 
Often can be had for 50 or even less. There is a review on the first page.


----------



## HiCZoK

lenroot77 said:


> You might wanna look into the Creative Aurvana Live. Excellent for the money and very versatile.
> Often can be had for 50 or even less. There is a review on the first page.


 
 hehe I have it too !
 With Brainwavz HM5 pads. I bought it for mt gf for birthday. I had my own years ago but headband was too small and was causing pain on top of my head after one hour


----------



## raband

freshmind said:


> Can you post those sample clips ? Especially GSX ...
> 
> I am triying to pick one of them. Those clips would be very helpful to me.


 
  
 eg
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CDgwtVcbg
  
 Taken from this thread which has a fair few clips scattered throughout
  
 https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18749909&page=5
  
 From what I can tell, they're good for getting an idea of the sound cues (recorded sound from the GSX isn't as clean/clear as it is in real life)


----------



## X-Frame

What's up everyone?
  
 I found this thread after researching how to use non-gaming headphones for gaming on my PS4 Pro. Can someone please help me fill in the blanks in what I'd need?
  
*Owned Headphones:*
  
 HE-400i
 Sennheiser HD598 Open
 Sennheiser HD598 Closed
  
*Owned DAC/AMP's*
  
 Schitt Magni 2 Uber
 Schitt Modi 2 Uber
 FiiO E10K
 DragonFly Red
  
*Source*
  
 PS4 Pro (No receiver, hooked up directly to my TV via HDMI. I also sit about 10 feet away from my TV/PS4 Pro)
  
  
 I'm willing to use any headphone I have, any combination of my DAC and/or Amp setup plus probably a ModMic for chat. Let me know out of what I currently have if I can make a setup work.
  
 I play often with friends so I would ideally need to be able to adjust game/chat volume levels. Do I need a Mixamp for this or can that be done with an Amp and/or DAC as well.
  
 Thanks everyone!


----------



## themrmikemcd

I found what i think is a good deal on a pair of used DT880 PRO 250 ohm for $120 used/like new. They should be here in a week or. I'm looking forward to them for both gaming and music. Anyone have any time with these and can give their opinion on them? Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

x-frame said:


> I found this thread after researching how to use non-gaming headphones for gaming on my PS4 Pro. Can someone please help me fill in the blanks in what I'd need?
> *Owned Headphones:*
> HE-400i
> Sennheiser HD598 Open
> ...


 
  
 Get a Astro Mix-amp, plug it into the gaming console, use the HD558 or HD598 headphones.
 Buy any add-on mic you like (Modmic?).


----------



## PurpleAngel

themrmikemcd said:


> I found what i think is a good deal on a pair of used DT880 PRO 250 ohm for $120 used/like new. They should be here in a week or. I'm looking forward to them for both gaming and music. Anyone have any time with these and can give their opinion on them? Thanks!


 
  
 Fairly nice and blanced sound, slightly on the bright side.


----------



## Diamondpact

Hey, how has everyone been doing?
  
 When my SB X7 LE arrived I was none-the-wiser. I only noticed it recently that my SB X7 LE only plays in 2.0 stereo and not enabling any of the sbx audio enhancements. I noticed this by turning on the unit with audio already playing. It initially sounds airy and open (with the increased surround as it should) but then after like 2 secs of audio it becomes stereo again. 
  
 Anyone able to help? I really want to experience this as its meant to be :*(.
  
 No matter what setting i change to nothing changes. Ex, increase or decrease bass and nothing. Increase and decrease surround, still the same.


----------



## Diamondpact

I think i finally found the solution as soon as i sent the previous message... I disabled direct mode. Viola. I thought i post the solution i found in case someone ever runs into the same problem.


----------



## X-Frame

purpleangel said:


> Get a Astro Mix-amp, plug it into the gaming console, use the HD558 or HD598 headphones.
> Buy any add-on mic you like (Modmic?).


 

 Thanks Purple! I appreciate the response.
  
 I am noticing that the Astro Mixamp seems to be one of the better options in terms of chat convenience with a gaming console. I'm a little hesitant for the Astro Mixamp since the Pro TR seems to be almost 1.5 years old at this point -- I'm wondering if a refresh or new version is inevitable in the coming months, but I'm not sure what else it could do or add. Some reviews of it seem to say it doesn't work with the PS4 Pro (which I have), so I'll need to look into that too.


----------



## raband

diamondpact said:


> I think i finally found the solution as soon as i sent the previous message... I disabled direct mode. Viola. I thought i post the solution i found in case someone ever runs into the same problem.


 
  
 That's it 
  
 Direct mode bypasses all processing


----------



## Change is Good

x-frame said:


> Thanks Purple! I appreciate the response.
> 
> I am noticing that the Astro Mixamp seems to be one of the better options in terms of chat convenience with a gaming console. I'm a little hesitant for the Astro Mixamp since the Pro TR seems to be almost 1.5 years old at this point -- I'm wondering if a refresh or new version is inevitable in the coming months, but I'm not sure what else it could do or add. Some reviews of it seem to say it doesn't work with the PS4 Pro (which I have), so I'll need to look into that too.




I would suggest you an find a used wireless 5.8 if going with the mixamp, especially if you're about 10 feet away from the TV/PS4.


----------



## Diamondpact

I had a question regarding consoles as well. My X7 LE can plug into the ps4 where my headphones will connect into the x7. Will a modmic connect into the x7 and thus allow mic audio to go into the ps4 like the mixamp?


----------



## Diamondpact

raband said:


> That's it
> 
> Direct mode bypasses all processing


 
 What would be the point for direct mode? To listen to the audio as is in reference to monitor the audio for editing ect? If yes, so its basically for professional audio editing and the like and pointless for the gamer/music?


----------



## PurpleAngel

x-frame said:


> Thanks Purple! I appreciate the response.
> 
> I am noticing that the Astro Mixamp seems to be one of the better options in terms of chat convenience with a gaming console. I'm a little hesitant for the Astro Mixamp since the Pro TR seems to be almost 1.5 years old at this point -- I'm wondering if a refresh or new version is inevitable in the coming months, but I'm not sure what else it could do or add. Some reviews of it seem to say it doesn't work with the PS4 Pro (which I have), so I'll need to look into that too.


 
  
 I believe a gaming console needs to have Dolby to have headphone surround sound, with a Mix-amp.
 Does your PS4 Pro have Dolby?


----------



## Ripkabird98

change is good said:


> I still have yet to hear a better closed headphone under $200 than the Soundmagic HP100/150. It's currently $129 on Amazon.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/SoundMAGIC-HP150-Premium-Folding-Headphones/dp/B00NF5SF3Q
> 
> Another one that @Yethal may recommend is the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro. Never heard it myself but have read good things for its price range. Always wanted to try one myself.


 
 Even better than things like Senns, DT-770s, M50Xs, etc? Especially for what I listen to?

 And is it still good for gaming/immersiveness?

 I've been recommended the HP150 a few other times, so it's on the short list. I'll admit, I'm mildly confused, because the reviews for it are usually high in stars, but critical in description, as opposed to some other ones that are high in stars and less critical in description.

 I've also been recommended the Crossfade LP2s, and the ATH-MSR7s.


----------



## nicobombai

I just realized Zowie (acquired by BenQ and now it is the flagship gaming brand of BenQ), have made Vital (usb dac) for gaming.
  
 Have any of you guys tried it? Reviews are still rare on the web tho...
  
http://zowie.benq.com/en/product/audio-system/audio-system/vital.html


----------



## raband

Not a happy camper.
  
  
 Ordered the GSX1000 from Sennheiser Aust on 26th December - payment and email reply confirming it.
 Expected delivery - 3 - 7 days (their words)
  
 Last email on 3rd Jan - "Fullfillment Started"
  
 I emailed them on 12th Jan (as per their recommendation in the original emails) - no reply
  
 Emailed again and filled in web query today then saw the contact number for sales support.
  
 Called them - "Out of stock"
  
 *** - they STILL show as in stock on the sales page (some other items show as out of stock)
  
 edit: isn't so much the backorder as the ZERO followup that's pissed me off


----------



## rudyae86

nicobombai said:


> I just realized Zowie (acquired by BenQ and now it is the flagship gaming brand of BenQ), have made Vital (usb dac) for gaming.
> 
> Have any of you guys tried it? Reviews are still rare on the web tho...
> 
> http://zowie.benq.com/en/product/audio-system/audio-system/vital.html


 
 Funny how the first time I hear of Zowie was because they were on slickdeals selling refurb Gaming Monitors. The name has not been going too mainstream yet but surely little by little they will gain popularity.
  
 As for the USB DAC.....seems like just gives regular Stereo at 96kHz/24-bit. Doesn't really say much about anything else....


----------



## TeeReQs

diamondpact said:


> I had a question regarding consoles as well. My X7 LE can plug into the ps4 where my headphones will connect into the x7. Will a modmic connect into the x7 and thus allow mic audio to go into the ps4 like the mixamp?


 
 Check out the wiring diagrams @Yethal made up a while back. You'll need the BT receiver for ps4, or you can use the line out on the back.
  
 Here's his post with all the diagrams:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added/33825#post_12251459
  
 And here's the diagram you're looking for:
  
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a8/900x900px-LL-a845c467_X7diagram.png
  
 This is from @Evshrug's review if you don't want to buy the BT adapter:
  
 http://cdn.head-fi.org/6/6f/350x700px-LL-6f249630_P1080190.jpeg
  
 And the whole review for reference:
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/sound-blaster-x7/reviews/12389


----------



## nicobombai

rudyae86 said:


> Funny how the first time I hear of Zowie was because they were on slickdeals selling refurb Gaming Monitors. The name has not been going too mainstream yet but surely little by little they will gain popularity.
> 
> As for the USB DAC.....seems like just gives regular Stereo at 96kHz/24-bit. Doesn't really say much about anything else....


 
  
 Zowie brand exploded here recently cos of BenQ acquisition and csgo scene. Didn't know about the refurb monitor tho lol.
  
 Ah ic, well the pricing goes around $200 here, so its better to go for GSX1000 or even X7 if possible yes?


----------



## Fegefeuer

that Zowie DAC screams useless.


----------



## SeaWo|f

I'm sure this has been answered in here somewhere but searching has become mind numbing. I'm thinking about retiring my xfi ti and getting the asus soar as a change of pace.
  
 Does asus allow the passing of virtual 3d for headphones through the SPDIF?


----------



## Fegefeuer

why the Soar? A waste of time and energy. 
  
 Get SBX or Dolby Headphone via the cheapest card and go external DAC/Amp, SBX and DHP stuff stood the test of time. The Soar is far from that.


----------



## raband

nicobombai said:


> Ah ic, well the pricing goes around $200 here, so its better to go for GSX1000 or even X7 if possible yes?


 
  
  
 It looks like it's a mixamp with bass/treble options and no "virtual surround"
  
 Might be handy to plug into a random PC and have your headphone control and mic settings easy to adjust, but I don't think it's going to do much more than that.
  
 Would/could be handy (extremely handy????) for places like internet cafes - especially if there's no drivers required?


----------



## nicobombai

raband said:


> It looks like it's a mixamp with bass/treble options and no "virtual surround"
> 
> Might be handy to plug into a random PC and have your headphone control and mic settings easy to adjust, but I don't think it's going to do much more than that.
> 
> Would be handy (extremely handy????) for places like internet cafes?


 
  
 Internet cafes are dead to my eyes, majority of them have out dated pc's, even dota 2 & CSGO struggles to have 60FPS or more LOL.
 But i do get your point, handy for someone going into lan events 
  
 My hands are itching to try out GSX1000 or X7 for my dt770. Hopefully i can get them soon...


----------



## SeaWo|f

Been using creative cards for ever I'm bored, and I have heard mixed things from people moving from CMSS-3D to SBX. Asus look like they are using their own down mixing tech so I thought it would be fun to try. 
  
 I want the optical out as that currently is how I connect my DAC to my computer.


----------



## raband

The creatives are great in that you can send the "surround headhone and effects" through to your other dac/amp (optical or line out)
  
 Do the ASUS allow that?


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> The creatives are great in that you can send the "surround headhone and effects" through to your other dac/amp (optical or line out)
> 
> Do the ASUS allow that?



Xonars do


----------



## themrmikemcd

Ok, so after a few months of using the Astro mix amp with my PS4...I have decided that I do NOT like virtual surround sound with any pair of headphones I have used.The 598s, to the ad700x, shp9500, hd668, m50x, CALS, DT990 and the HyperX cloud 2. 

To me eveything always just sounds like im in a hallway or a bathroom and just kinda sounds more like i have tin cans covering my ears. So i say all that to say this.

I only use the mix amp with the PS4 for higher sound quality. Is there something I could use that doesnt have surround sound, and just has a better quality dac/amp that would work for the PS4 and benefit the listed headphones above? Something within the $120 price range. Thank you so much. And someone brought up a point below me about microphone use. I dont play online and do not need a Mic at all.


----------



## X-Frame

themrmikemcd said:


> Ok, so after a few months of using the Astro mix amp with my PS4...I have decided that I do NOT like virtual surround sound with any pair of headphones I have used.The 598s, to the ad700x, shp9500, hd668, m50x, CALS, DT990 and the HyperX cloud 2.
> 
> To me eveything always just sounds like im in a hallway or a bathroom and just kinda sounds more like i have tin cans covering my ears. So i say all that to say this.
> 
> I only use the mix amp with the PS4 for higher sound quality. Is there something I could use that doesnt have surround sound, and just has a better quality dac/amp that would work for the PS4 and benefit the listed headphones above? Something within the $120 price range. Thank you so much.




I'm curious about this too. A lot of people recommend the little SMSL DAC/Amp combo that connects to the PS4 with the optical cable.

The problem with losing the Mixamp is that you sort of lose a lot of chat functionality, such as being able to turn down game volume and have more the chat volume come through.

I think this can also be done through the PS4 UI as well but that seems more inconvenient.


----------



## lenroot77

themrmikemcd said:


> Ok, so after a few months of using the Astro mix amp with my PS4...I have decided that I do NOT like virtual surround sound with any pair of headphones I have used.The 598s, to the ad700x, shp9500, hd668, m50x, CALS, DT990 and the HyperX cloud 2.
> 
> To me eveything always just sounds like im in a hallway or a bathroom and just kinda sounds more like i have tin cans covering my ears. So i say all that to say this.
> 
> I only use the mix amp with the PS4 for higher sound quality. Is there something I could use that doesnt have surround sound, and just has a better quality dac/amp that would work for the PS4 and benefit the listed headphones above? Something within the $120 price range. Thank you so much. And someone brought up a point below me about microphone use. I dont play online and do not need a Mic at all.




I think u could just turn off the Dolby Headphone processing? My mixamp several years back allowed this. This way U keep all chat functions and well of course save some money.

Okay, read your last sentence...ooooops!

If I were you I would check over on the Schiit Fulla 2 thread and see it works with a PS4. From what I gather it's really a lot of bang for the buck.


----------



## themrmikemcd

lenroot77 said:


> I think u could just turn off the Dolby Headphone processing? My mixamp several years back allowed this. This way U keep all chat functions and well of course save some money.
> 
> Okay, read your last sentence...ooooops!
> 
> If I were you I would check over on the Schiit Fulla 2 thread and see it works with a PS4. From what I gather it's really a lot of bang for the buck.


 Ha to be fair i did edit the post shortly after i posted it about the mic. yea, I don't need the MixAmp for the virtual surround sound or for the chat function so I was hoping there was something out there that would just give me overall better quality and power for headphones I will look into what you suggested thank you! I don't know if the MixAmp is considered a good dac amp combo or if there are others out there better than the MixAmp that are in my price range.


----------



## lenroot77

themrmikemcd said:


> Ha to be fair i did edit the post shortly after i posted it about the mic. yea, I don't need the MixAmp for the virtual surround sound or for the chat function so I was hoping there was something out there that would just give me overall better quality and power for headphones I will look into what you suggested thank you! I don't know if the MixAmp is considered a good dac amp combo or if there are others out there better than the MixAmp that are in my price range.




If you are using stereo with no chat there are for sure many better options.


----------



## HiCZoK

Cmon dac with touch controls? ...


----------



## mbyrnes

themrmikemcd said:


> Ok, so after a few months of using the Astro mix amp with my PS4...I have decided that I do NOT like virtual surround sound with any pair of headphones I have used.The 598s, to the ad700x, shp9500, hd668, m50x, CALS, DT990 and the HyperX cloud 2.
> 
> To me eveything always just sounds like im in a hallway or a bathroom and just kinda sounds more like i have tin cans covering my ears. So i say all that to say this.
> 
> I only use the mix amp with the PS4 for higher sound quality. Is there something I could use that doesnt have surround sound, and just has a better quality dac/amp that would work for the PS4 and benefit the listed headphones above? Something within the $120 price range. Thank you so much. And someone brought up a point below me about microphone use. I dont play online and do not need a Mic at all.


 
  
 Definitely try the Mixamp without DH engaged. Even if not perfect, may get you some more time to research a few options. Schiit Modi/Magni stack would be really good and could power any headphone. I would imagine a used set could fall into your price range. The SMLS products hit Massdrop pretty regularly, if you don't mind waiting to get it. I don't know much about the PS4 for audio out, like if it sends audio out of USB. I would look for a DAC that has Optical and USB inputs, as you may want to hook up a few sources, even if not right away.


----------



## babybluefe

Hi, after hours of searching for a good setup, I found this theard.
I have: PS4 Pro, Mac Pro 2016.
Can you help me find a good setup? Mainly for my PS4 Pro (I play with parties a lot, so yeah, a mic is a must) but still useful if I want to chill with my Mac.
My budget is 250-300. Thank you so much!!


----------



## Diamondpact

teereqs said:


> Check out the wiring diagrams @Yethal made up a while back. You'll need the BT receiver for ps4, or you can use the line out on the back.
> 
> Here's his post with all the diagrams:
> 
> ...


 
 Thank you for your help. I'm glad that I set it up correctly. I used optical out from ps4 into my x7 le and connected my z906 speaker to the x7 through analog, Unfortunately my current mic is a usb mic, AT 2020+. I was thinking worst case scenario that I would put at2020+ in the usb slot. If that works then i wont need to get the modmic.


----------



## PurpleAngel

seawo|f said:


> I'm sure this has been answered in here somewhere but searching has become mind numbing. I'm thinking about retiring my xfi ti and getting the asus soar as a change of pace.
> 
> Does Asus allow the passing of virtual 3d for headphones through the SPDIF?


 
  
 Most (if not all) Asus sound cards will pass headphone surround sound thru the S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) output.


----------



## themrmikemcd

mbyrnes said:


> Definitely try the Mixamp without DH engaged. Even if not perfect, may get you some more time to research a few options. Schiit Modi/Magni stack would be really good and could power any headphone. I would imagine a used set could fall into your price range. The SMLS products hit Massdrop pretty regularly, if you don't mind waiting to get it. I don't know much about the PS4 for audio out, like if it sends audio out of USB. I would look for a DAC that has Optical and USB inputs, as you may want to hook up a few sources, even if not right away.


 Awesome! thanks for the suggestions. Yeah, right now I am using the MixAmp without the Dolby Digital on and I'm liking it a lot better. I was just looking for something that might have a better quality of sound to it that would help the nice headphones I have. I would definitely look into some of the things you suggested. Thanks again


----------



## Find the Door

So I have the AKG 712 Pros currently and am looking to move on to the HD800 or 800S for a wider soundstage and improved imaging.

Which one of the two (800 or 800s) is better for gaming overall?

How do they compare to Beyer T1.2's?


----------



## rudyae86

So the PC37X are live now on massdrop. Anyone getting them?

I was going to but I recently bought a car lol. Now I have to pay registration and insurance for it :/.

Unless I sold one of my HD598, I won't be getting a PC37X this time.


----------



## Evshrug

Here is my review of the PC37X:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/832041/sennheiser-x-massdrop-pc37x-review-discussion/30_30#post_13181827

Yethal also posted his in the review/discussion thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/832041/sennheiser-x-massdrop-pc37x-review-discussion/30_30#post_13181313


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> So the PC37X are live now on massdrop. Anyone getting them?
> 
> I was going to but I recently bought a car lol. Now I have to pay registration and insurance for it :/.
> 
> Unless I sold one of my HD598, I won't be getting a PC37X this time.


 
 You might as well do that, PC37X is a pretty much a HD598 with some more bass and a microphone attached.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> So the PC37X are live now on massdrop. Anyone getting them?
> 
> I was going to but I recently bought a car lol. Now I have to pay registration and insurance for it :/.
> 
> Unless I sold one of my HD598, I won't be getting a PC37X this time.




It's basically the Game Zero with one less cable right? I thought about it, but decided to pass. With the extra cable I would need I'm looking at $140 plus a 2 1/2 month wait for the PC37X. Nah.

Probably will just get another 9500 soon and attach my Boompro, unless I find a L2 for the sale price it went for during the holidays.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> It's basically the Game Zero with one less cable right? I thought about it, but decided to pass. With the extra cable I would need I'm looking at $140 plus a 2 1/2 month wait for the PC37X. Nah.
> 
> Probably will just get another 9500 soon and attach my Boompro, unless I find a L2 for the sale price it went for during the holidays.




I passed as well, have the game one already and for the little bit of use it gets I typically have the game sound down and chat volume up. So even if the Pc37X sounds a bit better I might not notice. 

While I was initially disappointed with the announcement of the Pc37X, it's a great deal at 120 bucks.


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> It's basically the Game Zero with one less cable right? I thought about it, but decided to pass. With the extra cable I would need I'm looking at $140 plus a 2 1/2 month wait for the PC37X. Nah.
> 
> Probably will just get another 9500 soon and attach my Boompro, unless I find a L2 for the sale price it went for during the holidays.




G4ME Zero is the closed back version which is the PC350 SE.

This is similar to the PC360/G4ME One/PC363D/PC373D....

Yeah lol

I mean, I will eventually get one just because it comes all in one package instead of me trying to use a seperate mic with the HD598. I currently use the K7XX which is my sweet spot for immersive/competitive. But when I go all out competitive, I switch to the HD598 but using my cheap 5 dollar mic isnt always great and I hate having an extra cable dangle. So for $120+tax, it's not a bad price. Considering that the HD598s are discontinued and will probably be selling at around the same price if not more and also considering that the HD599 is more expensive.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> G4ME Zero is the closed back version which is the PC350 SE.
> 
> This is similar to the PC360/G4ME One/PC363D/PC373D....
> 
> ...


 
 Have you tried the HD598-compatible BoomPro equivalent? It's just $20 and should solve most of Your problems.
  
 https://www.amazon.com/Microphone-Universal-Sennheiser-Audio-Technica-150CM-Black/dp/B01IRCRCL2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1484681528&sr=8-2&keywords=hd598+microphone


----------



## Ripkabird98

Posting here one more time before I decide.

 Budget: 100-175 (Willing to buy used, Amazon or otherwise)

 Source: PC, (no DAC/AMP) PS4, Laptop, Mobile phone, PS Vita
*MUST* be closed back

 I used to have a pair of Hyperx Cloud 2s, which at first sounded amazing, but as I got adjusted, started sounding "eh." I plan on buying a Modmic/V-MODA mic, so no headset needed.

 Comfort and sound matter most, style is irrelevant. Will be used for gaming (Mostly casual, some minor competitive, so "decent" sound positioning is required, but great immersive capability for games like ARMA/BF1 is needed, I want to feel the fear/excitement/action), movies, general usage (Skype, YouTube, etc). 
  
 I've finally decided on what kind of signature I want, but no idea if it has a term. I love bass, so I want very good, tight, powerful, bass, and I'd love a little bit extra of bass. The only problem, is I DON'T want it to ruin the mids or highs, ESPECIALLY the mids, because I do mostly listen to music where mids are very important, and highs are important to a level.I listen to Pop, Rap, Indie, Electro, Alternative, and a lot of Rock/Heavy Metal. I'd prefer something that works for everything from Ellie Goulding, Ed Sheeran and The Chainsmokers, to K.Flay, to Eminem and Tech N9ne, to The Ghost Inside and Thy Art is Murder.

 Cans I've been recommended but ruled out: Beyer Custom One Pros, Soundmagic HP150s (I've heard good things on the sound, but bad things on build quality/customer service, and I'm left spooked.) I'm leaning away from DT770s because I've heard they're not great for mids.

 Thank you in advance for any help!


----------



## Yethal

ripkabird98 said:


> Posting here one more time before I decide.
> 
> Budget: 100-175 (Willing to buy used, Amazon or otherwise)
> 
> ...


 

 HD598C?


----------



## nicobombai

yethal said:


> HD598C?


 
  
 Are they good? I heard mixed reviews of them :S


----------



## Yethal

nicobombai said:


> Are they good? I heard mixed reviews of them :S


 

 Dunno, but he wants a closed back and doesn't want beyers or soundmagic so there aren't many options left in this price range.


----------



## Ripkabird98

The HD598Cs are on my short list, for sure.

 I've heard Soundmagic sounds great, but a lot of people have supposedly had theirs break ridiculously easy, and the customer service/warranty are supposed to be awful.

 I found a Fostex TH-X00 for 200, used. Would those be a good contender? The reviews seem great, but because I'm new, I struggle to understand exactly what some people mean, with their terms.

 I'm pretty bummed out about my need for closed backs, but my living environment requires the isolation (both ways). That, and I use them in public.


----------



## nicobombai

ripkabird98 said:


> The HD598Cs are on my short list, for sure.
> 
> I've heard Soundmagic sounds great, but a lot of people have supposedly had theirs break ridiculously easy, and the customer service/warranty are supposed to be awful.
> 
> ...


 
  
 DT770 or COP is a good choice imo. I have the DT770, very immersive in games and movies. Mids are average, not the best nor the worst. The bass is just too good, perfect for bassheads.


----------



## lenroot77

ripkabird98 said:


> The HD598Cs are on my short list, for sure.
> 
> 
> I've heard Soundmagic sounds great, but a lot of people have supposedly had theirs break ridiculously easy, and the customer service/warranty are supposed to be awful.
> ...




I had the hd598C's for a while and if you are looking for more of an open sounding headphone you may consider those. I found the soundstage a bit larger than the dt770 and they felt less like a closed headphone. 

You also have the option of using the mic Yethal posted a while back should u need chat.


----------



## Evshrug

Isn't the Kingston (shudder, a computer storage company trying to make headphones) HyperX cloud 2 essentially a DT770 clone? I doubt they're as careful with the Kingston brand as they are when carrying the Beyerdynamic brand about stuff like driver matching and QC rejection rate, because they sell for less, but the DT770 and Cloud 2 should basically have similar sound signature (differences would be due to pads, enclosure, and QC). So, if you want better, might be time to save up and stretch the budget for a higher-level closed headphone.

I'd guess the sound signature you would like, would be a headphone with a V-shaped frequency curve, or if you don't like treble then straight up look for basshead cans. Personally, I have found with higher end headphones that even if they are close to neutral they still are impressive and immersive, not dull, but taste is personal and perhaps you prefer to inject songs with a flavored headphone.

If you like the Cloud 2's character but find it dull or fatiguing, it could be a better investment of the $150-$200 budget to pick up a good amp, or maybe a decent amp and DAC. You would need an upgraded amp or DAC to appreciate the full capabilities of a headphone upgrade better than a DT770 anyway. A better amp should net you tighter bass response and resolution, quicker transients meaning the sound overall will be crisper with more exciting impact, and be able to handle the delicate and hyper-fast-frequency treble range with more authority and less brittleness. I've heard the DT770 scale up VERY well with better upstream gear, and it was probably overkill but I continued to hear improvements with amps and DACs costing more than twice as much as the headphone, each.

If you still want another headphone... I don't know what closed headphone to recommend for use in public, unless you're going to be sitting down. Maybe the best for use in public while walking would be the V-Moda M-100? I recommend getting the XL pads, for sure. I really liked the on-Ear Beyerdynamic T51p, that's a decent closed option for walking around. The Fostex TH-X00 would be a great upgrade, but they are BIG and you may not feel comfortable walking around with them, the half-off price of the used headphones sounds sketchy (all th-X00 sold new for $400 or more, and they are based on headphones that cost even more than that), and would ALSO need a good amp just to drive them well. I heard the Fostex TH-600 at RMAF 2015 through a $250 Fostex DAC/amp, and it was good, but then they connected it to a prototype tube amp costing several thousand dollars and the HUGE HUGE difference that made gave me shivers down my spine, one of the two tingly "I'll never forget it" moments of that show. If you don't want to buy an amp, consider some IEMs (which are great for isolation and walking around) like the Audio Technica ATH-IM50 (read reviews of this one), the 1More IEMs that have been getting a lot of press lately, Alclair, and 64 Audio.


----------



## AxelCloris

Kingston has no hand in the production of the HyperX Cloud. They're using the OEM manufacturer Qpad and honestly it's a decent headset if someone wants a simple, closed-back set with a mic.


----------



## Ripkabird98

I no longer have my Hyperx. That's actually why I need new cans, my new puppy destroyed them. 

It's my understanding that the Cloud 2s are essentially Takstar Pro 80s with a mic. 

They sounded high great at first, but towards the end, I started feeling like they didn't sound that great. 

I use them in public while sitting, not walking. So feel free to recommend ones that aren't great for walking around with. 

The Fostex seemed good condition, were listed as lightly used. 

My indecisiveness comes from the fact that I'm wanting something with good lows, but good mids as well. 

I won't lie, I'm not totally sure what neutral means, exactly. I mean, I've looked it up, seen the description, but I'm not sure how that translates into the sound itself.


----------



## mbyrnes

ripkabird98 said:


> Posting here one more time before I decide.
> 
> 
> Budget: 100-175 (Willing to buy used, Amazon or otherwise)
> ...




I'm thinking you may be better off saving for the Fostex TH-X00. they drop regularly on Massdrop for $400. They're vastly more bass heavy than most headphones, while still being audiophile quality. There is no contest between these and say the Beyerdynamic DT990, which I also own when comparing the bass output and quality.

For gaming the DT990 ($130) has a bigger soundstage (open back) and the treble output is higher. That treble can be problematic for music listening, with a large enough crowd hating them that it must be mentioned. 

Now you are talking a real world price difference of roughly $270 between them. Open back versus semi-open, with open back being the best for soundstage presentation. For my personal listening preferences, I'll sacrifice soundstage for immersion on 80% of my gaming. 

I'm sorry I can't comment on other bass heavy phones, but that's all I've personally used. If I could only have 2 headphones for everything, it would be my AKG K702 65TH Annies (Massdrop K7XX, $200) for serious FPS play, and the Fostex for everything else.

Edit: missed the closed back part. The DT770 is the closed back version of the DT990. Each headphone you look at may need to be researched for sound leakage, both in and out. The TH-X00 block outside sounds ok, but they leak sound more than most would think. The first page has reviews from MLE, and I truly trust his impressions. I've found he is really accurate in his reviews. His guide is a bible of gaming.


----------



## Ripkabird98

I actually saw a used K7XX as well. 

Would buying the used Fostex for 200 be a terrible idea, or should I really only buy new? I don't really want used, but I start University in a few months, and spending 400 on the cans before mic isn't something I could comfortably do. I've heard only positive things about the Fostex, not only as a company, but specifically the TH-X00.


----------



## Find the Door

So currently I'm looking at getting a pair of HD800S (i.e not HD800, but the new version). I currently have AKG 712 Pros at the moment - looking for a bit more precision and a slightly wider soundstage. A boost in detail would be appreciated too.

What should I expect?


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> I had the hd598C's for a while and if you are looking for more of an open sounding headphone you may consider those. I found the soundstage a bit larger than the dt770 and they felt less like a closed headphone.
> 
> You also have the option of using the mic Yethal posted a while back should u need chat.


 
 This is what I've been using on my 598's. Works great, but quality could be a concern. I haven't had it for very long, but the cord is nice, and the inline volume/mute is nice to have. I think they could have designed the split to microphone and headphone a little better though. The y-cable adapter is a bit strange.


----------



## mbyrnes

ripkabird98 said:


> I actually saw a used K7XX as well.
> 
> Would buying the used Fostex for 200 be a terrible idea, or should I really only buy new? I don't really want used, but I start University in a few months, and spending 400 on the cans before mic isn't something I could comfortably do. I've heard only positive things about the Fostex, not only as a company, but specifically the TH-X00.


 
  
 $200!!!! Jump on that as fast as you can! that is a steal. Buy new pads if you want, as that is really the only thing I could imagine being gross from someone else's use. Personally I would spray the earpads with Lysol, and enjoy them.


----------



## Ripkabird98

mbyrnes said:


> $200!!!! Jump on that as fast as you can! that is a steal. Buy new pads if you want, as that is really the only thing I could imagine being gross from someone else's use. Personally I would spray the earpads with Lysol, and enjoy them.




I assume if I get it and I find it's not enough bass (though I hear it's great with lows) I could Amp it, correct? 

And yeah, I think I'll probably just jump on them. Great reviews, they look great, and I have a good feeling.


----------



## mbyrnes

Oh Ripkabird. I just thought of another solution for portable use. I jumped on a Blue Box special from Massdrop featuring the Thinksound IEMs. I ended up with the TS-02 w/mic for $35ish. Now it is not an "Audiophile" IEM, but for just listening to music, it is really impressive. Running them out of my LG V10, I get excellent bass, great mids, and highs that are slightly recessed, but still sparkly. I initially just threw them in my ears while walking around Philly, and playing with my phone. I was trying music apps, streaming services, and FM radio (V20) which I can get directly without need for streaming. At the time the Philadelphia Eagles were playing great, and I was listening to a lot of Sports talk radio. By the time I actually started to really listen with music, I was blown away at what I paid for them. They are easily worth the price they charge on Amazon. 
  
 I bought the V10 then upgraded to the V20 within a few months. Early buyers of the V20 got it with the B&O H3 IEMs ($149). Now the H3s don't have the same amount of time on them compared to the TS-02, but I actually prefer the TS-02 by a good margin. I like the TS-02 bass and midrange better than the H3. It's not that the H3 is a bad IEM, it just doesn't present music the way I like. 
  
 I have taken my cans out into the world, as my V10 and V20 can easily drive many headphones without a sweat. After getting the TS-02, I haven't taken any over ear headphone outside. Here is the link to Amazon if you are curious. So you can get them now if you wanted. Here is the link to the Massdrop I was a part of and scored them. I have seen them drop after my drop, but I think they are due for another. 
  
 Just a thought. I was never an IEM guy, always loved a proper headphone. I think if you get a comfortable fit and good sound, you may also prefer a good IEM. There are plenty out there, just telling my story.


----------



## mbyrnes

That is the wonderful thing about the TH-X00. They are only 25 ohm and pretty efficient at 94db at 1mW. Most amps output the most power at 32 ohm, and they do scale well with front end improvements. If these don't have enough bass there is something wrong with you!!!! You can also EQ the TH-X00 and it responds pretty well. Some have gear with a Bass Boost that they really like. Some users actually dial the bass DOWN with EQ. I think you'll be very happy. They are a really special headphone. 
  
 One thing I don't know if you know, is that it comes with a VERY thick cable that brings the weight of just the headphone (350 mg/ 12.3 oz) to a total weight of 482 mg/ 17.3 oz. It also terminates to a 1/4" jack. Not really ideal at all for portable use, but it could go. I will be bringing mine out to the park in the warmer months to enjoy them as much as I can. The adapter is the direct plug on, which I would never use. I am going to grab the adapter with the short wire to take the weight off of the 3.5mm input jack on my V20.


----------



## Ripkabird98

I actually have the LG V10 myself. Love it! 

I plan on buying a good pair of IEMs in the future, but I'm looking at headphones now because their use will be for gaming headset and at home music. 

I only really use headphones in public while sitting down, usually indoors. Do you think the TH-X00 would work for that with my phone?

Edit: Also, I assume it should be great for immersiveness gaming, because of the bass. Should it be at least OK for sound placement/positioning? Nothing insane, just general hearing through walls and room in Rainbow Six, general location detection in CSGO, etc.


----------



## Drizz1e

I definitely wouldn't take the X00s outside. They're not the most durable headphones, and the cups are very easy to nick. Just seems like a bad idea all around


----------



## Ripkabird98

Do you mean never take them out of the house, or only use them in cars/buildings?


----------



## Drizz1e

For indoor use it'll probably be fine as long as you have a good case and take care with how you pack it (make sure the plug won't come into contact with the cups because it _will_ nick them. I wouldn't dare use them outdoors though. They don't isolate from outside noise enough, on top of the aforementioned lack of durability.


----------



## mbyrnes

ripkabird98 said:


> I actually have the LG V10 myself. Love it!
> 
> I plan on buying a good pair of IEMs in the future, but I'm looking at headphones now because their use will be for gaming headset and at home music.
> 
> ...




I've been using them for gaming a lot recently and you can hear what's going on pretty well. It's not God like, but good. The immersion is sooooooooo worth the trade off to me. I'll have more impressions soon I hope, as I need to use my AKGs more. Since I bought the MicroZOTL2, the HD6XX and TH-X00 arrived and I've been using them all the time. Annies haven't gotten more than a half hour on the tube amp. That's changing tonight!


----------



## mbyrnes

drizz1e said:


> I definitely wouldn't take the X00s outside. They're not the most durable headphones, and the cups are very easy to nick. Just seems like a bad idea all around




Disagree about them not being durable. They really feel no less durable than any other phone i have. The cups may get scratched easy but more from abuse than normal use.


----------



## mbyrnes

Someone said the Fostex were huge. Surprisingly small I feel. They're almost identical in size to the DT990. The AKG are bigger by a good margin. I took this pic with them all in a straight line and as close to dead on center as possible.


----------



## Drizz1e

mbyrnes said:


> Disagree about them not being durable. They really feel no less durable than any other phone i have. The cups may get scratched easy but more from abuse than normal use.


 

 The cups are what I was mainly referring to. They're well built of course but the cup themselves get scratched _very _easily. I've heard of someone dropping theirs from less than a foot onto carpet and getting a scratch. I think outside you're just inviting random chance for something to happen to them. It just seems like a massive hassle to deal with that + the huge, heavy cable with 1/4'' plug. If you're alright with that then more power to you.


----------



## nicobombai

I need input on this please guys,
  
 I got the DT770 right now, love em but i feel the mids are a little bit sucked out, but for gaming these are truly immersive.
 Will the DT990 be an upgrade? or just stick with DT770 and get a better amp & dac for it? 
 I'm still on the fence on this idea tho.


----------



## PurpleAngel

nicobombai said:


> I need input on this please guys,
> 
> I got the DT770 right now, love em but i feel the mids are a little bit sucked out, but for gaming these are truly immersive.
> Will the DT990 be an upgrade? or just stick with DT770 and get a better amp & dac for it?
> I'm still on the fence on this idea tho.


 
  
 I do prefer the sound of the DT990, over the DT770.
 The DT990 have a strong bass/treble which over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
 I do prefer my Soundmagic HP200 semi-open headphones, over the DT990.
  
 What DAC/amp or sound card do you currently plug your headphones into?


----------



## lenroot77

nicobombai said:


> I need input on this please guys,
> 
> I got the DT770 right now, love em but i feel the mids are a little bit sucked out, but for gaming these are truly immersive.
> Will the DT990 be an upgrade? or just stick with DT770 and get a better amp & dac for it?
> I'm still on the fence on this idea tho.




More of a side grade... the dt990's have a really v shaped sound signature. You won't gain any of the midrange you are seeking. You will however have a larger soundstage with better positioning, as they are open back.


----------



## nicobombai

purpleangel said:


> I do prefer the sound of the DT990, over the DT770.
> The DT990 have a strong bass/treble which over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
> I do prefer my Soundmagic HP200 semi-open headphones, over the DT990.
> 
> What DAC/amp or sound card do you currently plug your headphones into?


 
  
 As of right now, its running on Fiio K1. I might upgrade to a Schiit Fulla 2 / SMSL 793ii / Fiio E10K depending on what i can get lol if i don't upgrade the headphone.
  


lenroot77 said:


> More of a side grade... the dt990's have a really v shaped sound signature. You won't gain any of the midrange you are seeking. You will however have a larger soundstage with better positioning, as they are open back.


 
  
 Ah ic, soo not that much better eh, just a better soundstage? so just get a better amp/dac? i like the headphone alot, just wanted to get feedback on dt990


----------



## Ripkabird98

drizz1e said:


> The cups are what I was mainly referring to. They're well built of course but the cup themselves get scratched _very_ easily. I've heard of someone dropping theirs from less than a foot onto carpet and getting a scratch. I think outside you're just inviting random chance for something to happen to them. It just seems like a massive hassle to deal with that + the huge, heavy cable with 1/4'' plug. If you're alright with that then more power to you.




Just to clarify with the 1/4" plug, should that still work with phones, PS4 controllers, and PS Vitas?


----------



## PurpleAngel

nicobombai said:


> As of right now, its running on Fiio K1. I might upgrade to a Schiit Fulla 2 / SMSL 793ii / Fiio E10K depending on what i can get lol if i don't upgrade the headphone.
> What about K612 pro? I can get them also


 
  
 I really doubt the Fiio K1's low powered amp can bring out the best in the Beyer 250-Ohm headphone (DT770 or DT990).
 You might consider swapping out for the Fulla 2 first, then look at replacing headphones.
 The AKG K612 Pro are even more power hungry the the DT770/DT990.


----------



## nicobombai

purpleangel said:


> I really doubt the Fiio K1's low powered amp can bring out the best in the Beyer 250-Ohm headphone (DT770 or DT990).
> You might consider swapping out for the Fulla 2 first, then look at replacing headphones.
> The AKG K612 Pro are even more power hungry the the DT770/DT990.


 
  
 Yeap i figured that out. I think imma upgrade the dac/amp first before getting a better headphone


----------



## Change is Good

[responding to TH-X00 conversation]
  
 The X00 cups are scratch prone because of the cheap gloss finish, not the wood. As mbyrnes mentioned, the fostex durability is not all that different from other similar full-sized headphones. The cable _is_ a PITA, though. It's why I opted to get a detachable mod. That and switching over to metal TH-600 cups made my pair more portable and toss around friendly.
  
 An amp isn't needed for reaching high volume, but it is recommended for better scaling. Still sounds super duper awesome straight out of my Sony dap, which is what I most often listen to music out of. Mixamps and similar priced DSPs for gaming will do great pumping these babies, as well.
  
 Edited to add picture of my X00 commuting setup.


----------



## Drizz1e

ripkabird98 said:


> Just to clarify with the 1/4" plug, should that still work with phones, PS4 controllers, and PS Vitas?


 
  
 You'll need a 1/4'' to 3.5mm adapter like this. I think Grado makes one also. Just don't use one of those screw-on ones or you'll probably end up breaking the headphone jack.


----------



## Ripkabird98

The Fostex were already sold 

  


drizz1e said:


> You'll need a 1/4'' to 3.5mm adapter like this. I think Grado makes one also. Just don't use one of those screw-on ones or you'll probably end up breaking the headphone jack.


 
 Thank you, I'll bookmark this for the future. I honestly wasn't sure.

 Any input on the Denon AH-MM400? Only one question I have based off the (glowing) reviews.

 The mids are good, I've read. But differing opinion on bass make me ask: Is it good for immersive gaming/bassheads in music taste? I want to feel the thump.


----------



## Change is Good

Save up for the TH-610. The walnut cups have a matte finish and cables are detachable. They go for $500 usd brand new now. I know that's far from your initial post's budget, but it's as good as it gets based on what you are asking for from a closed headphone (mind you, the Fostex is semi-open).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Changinho,
  
 did you compare the TH-610 to your TH-X00?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Axel is a mod?


----------



## AxelCloris

Nope, totally didn't happen. You see nothing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Who the hell thought it was a bright idea to give you the keys?

THE INFILTRATION HAS BEGUN :veryevil:


anyone know the the upcoming(?) neckband that has speakers that fire up to the ears? Like an LG Tone type deal. I kinda want them for work, but don't wanna actually insert anything into my ears.


----------



## AxelCloris

The keys to the castle look quite lovely too.
  

  
  
 To make sure I keep this gaming related, the GSX 1200 has been very promising so far. Looking forward to spending more time with it. First game I played using it left me 24:0.


----------



## TeeReQs

axelcloris said:


> The keys to the castle look quite lovely too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What game?


----------



## AxelCloris

teereqs said:


> What game?


 
  
 Oregon trail. Nah, it's Overwatch, the only game currently installed on this particular machine. Battlefield 1 is coming soon as well.


----------



## TeeReQs

Now that's a good game. Love trying to not to catch typhoid fever.
  
 I played Overwatch for about 3 weeks straight every single day after it came out, and haven't played it since. Don't know what happened. Lately I've been having a ton of fun with Forza horizon 3 though.
  
 On a side note, for anybody wanting to use the voice effects on the X7, I found a way to _sort of_ do it at least on Xbox. If you have Win 10 you can use the Xbox app and start a party chat through there, and then proceed to play your games on your xbox one. As long as you don't need to talk to anybody outside of the game, you can at least have fun using different voices among your friends. You would only have to plug your headset into the X7 and nothing goes into the controller. The only way you could talk to other people besides party chat would be to stream your console through the windows app, but that introduces way too much input lag. This might have already been covered, but I've been playing Forza on PC and using the Xbox app to chat with my friend who has it on Xbox.


----------



## Change is Good

fegefeuer said:


> Changinho,
> 
> did you compare the TH-610 to your TH-X00?




Sadly I haven't. Apologies if my post sounded like I've had one in my possession. Just was sharing what others that own them have posted about the cups and cables. Some say the pads are the same as the X00, others say it's the 600/900 pads. Sound comparisons have been few and just as inconsistent as pad impressions from what I can tell. I've been tempted to grab a pair and see/hear for myself but it would be redundant with my budget.


----------



## mbyrnes

change is good said:


> Sadly I haven't. Apologies if my post sounded like I've had one in my possession. Just was sharing what others that own them have posted about the cups and cables. Some say the pads are the same as the X00, others say it's the 600/900 pads. Sound comparisons have been few and just as inconsistent as pad impressions from what I can tell. I've been tempted to grab a pair and see/hear for myself but it would be redundant with my budget.




Maybe someone local to you has a pair you could listen to?


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> The keys to the castle look quite lovely too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 Axel....why did you get the GSX 1200 instead of just the GSX 1000? Only difference is that you can daisy chain other GSX 1200 at a LAN party or an eSports tournament....and it cost a bit more than the GSX 1000 just for that option.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Axel....why did you get the GSX 1200 instead of just the GSX 1000? Only difference is that you can daisy chain other GSX 1200 at a LAN party or an eSports tournament....and it cost a bit more than the GSX 1000 just for that option.


 

 They can be daisy-chained? Like Mixamps can? That's actually a really useful option.


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> Axel....why did you get the GSX 1200 instead of just the GSX 1000? Only difference is that you can daisy chain other GSX 1200 at a LAN party or an eSports tournament....and it cost a bit more than the GSX 1000 just for that option.


 
  
 The GSX 1200 was loaned to Head-Fi by Sennheiser as a testing unit. I am fully aware that they're the same device apart from the networking function. 
  


yethal said:


> They can be daisy-chained? Like Mixamps can? That's actually really a useful option.


 
  
 Yeah, if you have a situation where you can take advantage of it it's incredibly useful to have lag-free communication with your local teammates. It's a niche feature for sure, one I'm not sure if I'll ever utilize myself.


----------



## mbyrnes

Well because I am insane, I ordered the Schiit Modi Multibit. should have it by the end of next week. Scratching the itch of R2R DACs finally. Obviously I will try this with the X7 sending the surround sound signal out of optical. I also plan to try it with the Astro Mixamp feeding it if it is possible. If I cannot tell any difference, I will try the Mimby in my 2 channel system. No matter what I have a use for it, so it will not be wasted.


----------



## VeerK

mbyrnes said:


> Well because I am insane, I ordered the Schiit Modi Multibit. should have it by the end of next week. Scratching the itch of R2R DACs finally. Obviously I will try this with the X7 sending the surround sound signal out of optical. I also plan to try it with the Astro Mixamp feeding it if it is possible. If I cannot tell any difference, I will try the Mimby in my 2 channel system. No matter what I have a use for it, so it will not be wasted.


 
  
 Ha, beat me to it.


----------



## mbyrnes

veerk said:


> Ha, beat me to it.




Went through the classifieds and a bunch of wanted Multibit ads, no sellers. I'll actually have a Schiit stack now, with my original Magni. 

You can order it now and pay for overnight shipping! Lol. Hopefully you still take the plunge before I get a review together. It'll take a few weeks no doubt. I'll also be using my MicroZOTL2 the majority of the time as my amp. So you'll have a different setup then me. 

Come on, order it already! Lol


----------



## lenroot77

mbyrnes said:


> Went through the classifieds and a bunch of wanted Multibit ads, no sellers. I'll actually have a Schiit stack now, with my original Magni.
> 
> You can order it now and pay for overnight shipping! Lol. Hopefully you still take the plunge before I get a review together. It'll take a few weeks no doubt. I'll also be using my MicroZOTL2 the majority of the time as my amp. So you'll have a different setup then me.
> 
> Come on, order it already! Lol




I've had a wanted ad up for a little over 2 weeks and have only had one offer. Passed on it as I would only be saving 20 bucks. 

Mimby should sound great with an X7, I had my X7 outputting to a Bimby sometime back. That was a nice setup X7>>Bimby>>Liquid Carbon>>Hd800. It's a shame I can never settle on anything with this hobby. 

I'd like to go X7 >>Mimby>>Jotunheim... probably just have to order a mimby new I suppose.


----------



## rudyae86

axelcloris said:


> The GSX 1200 was loaned to Head-Fi by Sennheiser as a testing unit. I am fully aware that they're the same device apart from the networking function.




Oh...I thought you purchased it lol. Fair enough


----------



## Evshrug

ripkabird98 said:


> Just to clarify with the 1/4" plug, should that still work with phones, PS4 controllers, and PS Vitas?



You know the plug on electric guitars? That big round port on the front of a home theater receiver? That plug as big as a sniper bullet? Yeah, THAT's a 1/4" plug! In metric units, that's a 7mm plug. Twice the diameter as the ports in phones, the DS4, and the PS Vita. Those are 1/8 inch plugs, or 3.5mm.

 Now, the reason people recommend a 1/4" to 1/8" step-down adapter that has a short cable inbetween (ponytail) is because the adapters are heavy, and without the cable in the middle you would just have a big long chunk of metal with the small side plugged into something, ready to be pushed on or break off inside the small port/jack.



mad lust envy said:


> Axel is a mod?




Yeah! Proud of the guy, first external Head-Fi hire and responsible for all the new pretty Head-Fi product pictures. But we should take away his Photoshop, he keeps giving me nightmares (imagine a bearded normal enough handsome man, BUT with an unnervingly perky smile, and Photoshop abused to add giant chibi sparkling eyes, airbrushed skin (with makeup), two little hair-buns and bows in his hair, all floating on a sparkling pink background. Reeeeugh!)



mad lust envy said:


> Who the hell thought it was a bright idea to give you the keys?
> 
> THE INFILTRATION HAS BEGUN :veryevil:
> 
> ...




Sennheiser's got you covered! With a pretty model to help give the maximum chance of attractiveness!






Plus, surround sound! Eh? EH?


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> But we should take away his Photoshop, he keeps giving me nightmares (imagine a bearded normal enough handsome man, BUT with an unnervingly perky smile, and Photoshop abused to add giant chibi sparkling eyes, airbrushed skin (with makeup), two little hair-buns and bows in his hair, all floating on a sparkling pink background. Reeeeugh!)


 
  
 Haha, that's just using the Meitu app. I use Photoshop for far more dastardly purposes.


----------



## Evshrug

Hammer don't hurt 'em!


----------



## Ripkabird98

evshrug said:


> You know the plug on electric guitars? That big round port on the front of a home theater receiver? That plug as big as a sniper bullet? Yeah, THAT's a 1/4" plug! In metric units, that's a 7mm plug. Twice the diameter as the ports in phones, the DS4, and the PS Vita. Those are 1/8 inch plugs, or 3.5mm.
> 
> Now, the reason people recommend a 1/4" to 1/8" step-down adapter that has a short cable inbetween (ponytail) is because the adapters are heavy, and without the cable in the middle you would just have a big long chunk of metal with the small side plugged into something, ready to be pushed on or break off inside the small port/jack.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ripkabird98

I'm on mobile, the quote thing messed up, but Evshrug, there's a question in there.


----------



## Evshrug

ripkabird98 said:


> OK, thank you. That makes sense.
> 
> Do you have any opinion on what headset would work best for my needs, music and game wise?



Opinion, closed headphone, eeeeeeeh...
I don't typically like/need closed headphones, so my knowledge is mostly based on the reviews of others. I DO own a closed Creative Labs H7, and I believe Creative has an equivalent closed headset without a USB dongle (tho the H7 has an analog pass through). I'm pretty pleased with my H7, the clamp is quite lighter than the Sennheiser PC37X and the soft earpads are a great deal more comfortable than other closed headphones I've tried in the past, and the mic is detachable.

Compared to the PC37X, the Sennheiser is clearer and more refined, but while the H7 sounds a bit more dull it doesn't have any flaws and isn't far behind the Sennheiser. The price value is great!!

Compared to a COP that was on demo at a local HiFi store (Music To My Ear), I was shocked. Adjust the COP's bass to the least bloated position, and the COP and H7 were sonically indistinguishable. Food for thought.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Hey awesome people, just a quick question. Can the fio e12 power dt880 250ohm?? And would double amping them with the e12 and astro mix amp work well or should I look for something with more power? Thanks!


----------



## shuto77

themrmikemcd said:


> Hey awesome people, just a quick question. Can the fio e12 power dt880 250ohm?? And would double amping them with the e12 and astro mix amp work well or should I look for something with more power? Thanks!




That will be fine for your purposes. If you can pay a little more, you can also check out the new Fiio A5, which seems to be a successor to the E12 with even more power, and runs about $130 new.


----------



## themrmikemcd

shuto77 said:


> That will be fine for your purposes. If you can pay a little more, you can also check out the new Fiio A5, which seems to be a successor to the E12 with even more power, and runs about $130 new.


Awesome! Thanks! I have the fio e12 already was just making sure I was getting the best out of my dt880 250ohm. Using it. I will however check out the other one you mentioned. Never hurts have a back up..


----------



## overhaze

So I got bored tonight and did an RMAA test on the headphone out of my Sound Blaster ZX, Audioengine D1 and Sennheiser GSX 1000. I connected all 3 to the line in on the Sound Blaster (In line-in mode). Results went Sound Blaster > Sennheiser > Audioengine. It wasn't even close the Sound Blaster outperformed the other two in every category by a fair margin. I also did a second test with the Sound Blaster but with the oft lamented ACM. There was a slight left-right audio imbalance and crosstalk increased 12DB but every other measurement was identical (within the margin of error). So I guess the ACM actually does degrade audio quality a bit. 
  
 Basically my take away is if you want quality all round audio and gaming features the Sound Blaster Z looks pretty damned tempting. Its virtual surround isn't as good as the GSX 1000 (nothing I've heard is) but its also much less expensive. Just don't buy the ZX...


----------



## shankly1985

Loving the GSX 1000 with Fidelio X1 great combination.


----------



## rudyae86

overhaze said:


> So I got bored tonight and did an RMAA test on the headphone out of my Sound Blaster ZX, Audioengine D1 and Sennheiser GSX 1000. I connected all 3 to the line in on the Sound Blaster (In line-in mode). Results went Sound Blaster > Sennheiser > Audioengine. It wasn't even close the Sound Blaster outperformed the other two in every category by a fair margin. I also did a second test with the Sound Blaster but with the oft lamented ACM. There was a slight left-right audio imbalance and crosstalk increased 12DB but every other measurement was identical (within the margin of error). So I guess the ACM actually does degrade audio quality a bit.
> 
> Basically my take away is if you want quality all round audio and gaming features the Sound Blaster Z looks pretty damned tempting. Its virtual surround isn't as good as the GSX 1000 (nothing I've heard is) but its also much less expensive. Just don't buy the ZX...


 
 Wait so this test was made to test each one's audio quality in stereo or virtual surround sound? Sennheiser GSX 1000 doesn't have the quality components that the SB Z or the Audioengine D1 have and I don't think the GSX 1000 was mean to replace your daily config for music listening.
  
 But I do agree that the SB Z is still a top quality sound card, especially when you get it at $50 to $60 dollars.


----------



## overhaze

rudyae86 said:


> Wait so this test was made to test each one's audio quality in stereo or virtual surround sound? Sennheiser GSX 1000 doesn't have the quality components that the SB Z or the Audioengine D1 have and I don't think the GSX 1000 was mean to replace your daily config for music listening.
> 
> But I do agree that the SB Z is still a top quality sound card, especially when you get it at $50 to $60 dollars.


 
 Pure stereo for each, all enhancements off. Believe me I was as surprised as you are but the GSX 1000 slightly outperformed the D1 every time I ran the test. The GSX 1000 is new while my D1 is four and a half years old. Maybe wear and tear explains it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

evshrug said:


> You know the plug on electric guitars? That big round port on the front of a home theater receiver? That plug as big as a sniper bullet? Yeah, THAT's a 1/4" plug! In metric units, that's a 7mm plug. Twice the diameter as the ports in phones, the DS4, and the PS Vita. Those are 1/8 inch plugs, or 3.5mm.
> 
> Now, the reason people recommend a 1/4" to 1/8" step-down adapter that has a short cable inbetween (ponytail) is because the adapters are heavy, and without the cable in the middle you would just have a big long chunk of metal with the small side plugged into something, ready to be pushed on or break off inside the small port/jack.
> Yeah! Proud of the guy, first external Head-Fi hire and responsible for all the new pretty Head-Fi product pictures. But we should take away his Photoshop, he keeps giving me nightmares (imagine a bearded normal enough handsome man, BUT with an unnervingly perky smile, and Photoshop abused to add giant chibi sparkling eyes, airbrushed skin (with makeup), two little hair-buns and bows in his hair, all floating on a sparkling pink background. Reeeeugh!)
> ...




Hot damn. But, but, doesn't have velour pads. No go.


----------



## Evshrug

Astute observation. I don't even know if it does have pads for the shoulders at all! Could be an issue for a marathon man like you!


----------



## Change is Good

Are the pads replaceable? Can I attach my BoomPro?


----------



## Yethal

Can I run this off Mixamp or do I need to double amp?


----------



## X-Frame

Hey everyone -- so by this weekend I should have the Fidelio X2's, the Astro Mixamp Pro TR, and the V-Moda BoomPro Mic.
  
 I also have a Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber which right now are connected to my PS4 Pro via Optical, and it's working beautifully. Will I be able to insert the Mixamp and BoomPro Mic into my Schiit Stack without removing anything (e.g. can I still use the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber alongside the Mixamp)?
  
 I see the post from the 1st page that has diagrams of possible setups involve the Mixamp and various amps, but I don't know if I can also leave the Modi 2 Uber connected. Is that overkill?


----------



## canthearyou

x-frame said:


> Hey everyone -- so by this weekend I should have the Fidelio X2's, the Astro Mixamp Pro TR, and the V-Moda BoomPro Mic.
> 
> I also have a Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber which right now are connected to my PS4 Pro via Optical, and it's working beautifully. Will I be able to insert the Mixamp and BoomPro Mic into my Schiit Stack without removing anything (e.g. can I still use the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber alongside the Mixamp)?
> 
> I see the post from the 1st page that has diagrams of possible setups involve the Mixamp and various amps, but I don't know if I can also leave the Modi 2 Uber connected. Is that overkill?




It's one or the other. You cannot have two optical DACs running from your PS4 Pro. If you want too, though it's not needed with the X2, you can double amp through the Magni.


----------



## PurpleAngel

x-frame said:


> Hey everyone -- so by this weekend I should have the Fidelio X2's, the Astro Mixamp Pro TR, and the V-Moda BoomPro Mic.
> 
> I also have a Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber which right now are connected to my PS4 Pro via Optical, and it's working beautifully. Will I be able to insert the Mix-amp and BoomPro Mic into my Schiit Stack without removing anything (e.g. can I still use the Modi 2 Uber and Magni 2 Uber alongside the Mixamp)?
> 
> I see the post from the 1st page that has diagrams of possible setups involve the Mix-amp and various amps, but I don't know if I can also leave the Modi 2 Uber connected. Is that overkill?


 
  
 The Astro Mix-amp and Modi both provide a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) function, so can't be used at the same time.


----------



## TeeReQs

Anybody picking up KH 2.8 Epic prologue master remix prequel squared remastered?


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm going to let this lovely cartoon convey my feelings on the subject.


----------



## TeeReQs

Haha, pretty much. To be honest I wish that the 1.5 and 2.5 remastered came out before this. I'm just really itching to play the first one again.


----------



## rudyae86

teereqs said:


> Anybody picking up KH 2.8 Epic prologue master remix prequel squared remastered?


 
 lol my brother got the first 2 remasters on ps3 and now he is getting the others on PS4. He is more likely going to get the 2.8 as well lol.
  
 EDIT:
  
 Going to leave this "hear"
  
 
  
 oh the top comment under the video. So many confused people lol


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> lol my brother got the first 2 remasters on ps3 and now he is getting the others on PS4. He is more likely going to get the 2.8 as well lol.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...





 "_So far only one game supports 3D audio._"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

teereqs said:


> Anybody picking up KH 2.8 Epic prologue master remix prequel squared remastered?




When it's cheap. I only care about 2.8 in that package, and considering it's only 3 hours, no way I'll pay $60 for it. I'm hoping it's available for rental at Redbox, but doesn't seem like iot will be.

I bought Tales of Berseria instead. Much more worth the investment.


----------



## themrmikemcd

rudyae86 said:


> lol my brother got the first 2 remasters on ps3 and now he is getting the others on PS4. He is more likely going to get the 2.8 as well lol.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


"The JTL" has a youtube reviw up on the PS4 sony platinum. I watch all his videos on headsets/headphones. I actually just sent him my GTA5 edition pulse wireless for him to review and compare to the new platinum wireless. He is very honest and unbiased. I didn't want to link the video as I am not certain on the rules of posting links. (And I dont know how to) But he does in my opinion, really great reviews on headphones


----------



## TeeReQs

mad lust envy said:


> When it's cheap. I only care about 2.8 in that package, and considering it's only 3 hours, no way I'll pay $60 for it. I'm hoping it's available for rental at Redbox, but doesn't seem like iot will be.
> 
> I bought Tales of Berseria instead. Much more worth the investment.


 
 That's kind of how I feel about it. I might spend the money on the 1.5 and 2.5 remastered, but will probably wait for this to be on sale. I bought a couple of the Tales games on Steam over the winter sale, and excited to play through them. Haven't played anything in the series yet.


----------



## Yethal

Guys check your emails, Ubi just sent out a new batch of For Honor beta keys.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> Guys check your emails, Ubi just sent out a new batch of For Honor beta keys.


 
 Didn't get one


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> Didn't get one


 

 I can invite You via uPlay if You're on PS4 (can't send invites to other platforms unfortunately).


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> I can invite You via uPlay if You're on PS4 (can't send invites to other platforms unfortunately).


 
 I have a PS4. I entered to get a code for PC, I'd definitely be down to try it on PS4.


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> I have a PS4. I entered to get a code for PC, I'd definitely be down to try it on PS4.


 

 Send over Your uPlay username and I'll send an invite.


----------



## Yethal

Okay, TeeReQs is out so I have 3 invites left. Anybody up for grabs?


----------



## Change is Good

I have some invites to send also. Most my friends have their own beta code.


----------



## TeeReQs

Shows I have a code in my uplay for xbox but never got an email. So maybe I will soon and I can give out some invites as well


----------



## VeerK

I am in the beta for For Honor PC, if I can invite some people I'd be happy to.


----------



## TeeReQs

I just got my email for Xbox. If anybody wants a code let me know.


----------



## mbyrnes

Is it bad I have no idea what this game is? Lol


----------



## Drizz1e

Has anyone tried running the K7XXs with only the mixamp? I'm wondering if an amp is needed if they're only used for gaming.


----------



## mbyrnes

drizz1e said:


> Has anyone tried running the K7XXs with only the mixamp? I'm wondering if an amp is needed if they're only used for gaming.




IMO yes. You might be able to get by with the dial turned all the way to game volume, no voice. They will sound better with an amp. 62 ohm and pretty power hungry. Considering you can get a Magni (or something similar) for not much, especially used, I would plan to do that down the road.


----------



## Drizz1e

That's a shame. I don't know if it's worth buying an amp because I wouldn't be able to use it with my laptop (they're pretty far away from each other). I don't listen to music that much but I still don't know if I can justify the cost in that case.
  
 Really, I'm just trying to find something that has some of the fun that the X2s have, but with roomier pads and less clamp. I've stretched them as far as they'll go but it's still not very comfortable; especially on the top of my head. I have the same issue with the X00's headband and pads so maybe I just have a big head/ears. but it's very frustrating trying to find a headphone that I can actually consider comfortable and fits my preferences. I might just buy a K7XX to see if the comfort is right, and look into an amp if everything checks out. If not I could always sell it.


----------



## Yethal

drizz1e said:


> That's a shame. I don't know if it's worth buying an amp because I wouldn't be able to use it with my laptop (they're pretty far away from each other). I don't listen to music that much but I still don't know if I can justify the cost in that case.
> 
> Really, I'm just trying to find something that has some of the fun that the X2s have, but with roomier pads and less clamp. I've stretched them as far as they'll go but it's still not very comfortable; especially on the top of my head. I have the same issue with the X00's headband and pads so maybe I just have a big head/ears. but it's very frustrating trying to find a headphone that I can actually consider comfortable and fits my preferences. I might just buy a K7XX to see if the comfort is right, and look into an amp if everything checks out. If not I could always sell it.


 

 If You're after a gaming only pair of cans try the PC37X. It's relatively cheap and very potent.


----------



## ElusiveGamer98

I have a setup in mind for PS4: Astro Mixamp(2014) +
Superlux HD 668-B
For the mic I've read on other threads posted here that the mic quality is bad when connected through the 2014 edition of the Mixamp if I get an Antlion ModMic or V-Moda Boom Mic. So my question is, will I be able to use a USB mic to avoid this issue, or is that not possible with this set up? Astro Mixamp TR is out of my $120 budget as much as I'd love to drop the $130 for the TR.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> If You're after a gaming only pair of cans try the PC37X. It's relatively cheap and very potent.




He'll have to stretch them out, to reduce clamp though. He should be doing that with the X2 as well. Clamp is something easily remedied on everythihng but the cheapest, easily broken headphones.


----------



## dielsacul

I have a astro a40tr with mixamp pro tr and looking for a upgrade. Is the Fidelio X2 worth 237$? Should I buy a new amp or the current one is good enough with the X2?


----------



## Drizz1e

mad lust envy said:


> He'll have to stretch them out, to reduce clamp though. He should be doing that with the X2 as well. Clamp is something easily remedied on everythihng but the cheapest, easily broken headphones.


 
  
 I've stretched it so much that the elastic band holding the headband in place actually came loose at one point. Pretty sure I'm at the limit. I think the issue is due to the lack of headband padding more than anything. That's where all of the pressure seems to be. The odd thing is that I when I stopped using them over 6 months ago, I found them very comfortable. I might need to adjust to the velour pads and fit after using the X00s for so long.


----------



## themrmikemcd

As a non-audiophile listener, would upgrading from a DT880 250ohm to a 600OHM have any noticeable upgrade in terms of sound, assuming I had a powerful enough AMP to power them? (Not sure if double amping the Astro mix amp and Fio E-12 would be enough) I love the DT880 250ohm, but just wondered if the 600 ohm would yield any noticeable differences. While on this subject, My DT880 250 ohm are a used pair and sometimes when I use my mix amp and fio E12 together I’m hearing distortion in some video game sounds when it comes to some explosion sounds on PS4 and wondered if I have a bad pair of headphones or if I am using the amps wrong. I usually set the mix amp to almost all the way up, to maybe in between 2 and 3 o clock (with 3 o clock being all the way up) and use the Fio amp to raise and lower the sound.)

Also, I have been reading different reviews and some people say the DT770 has more bass than the DT880 and vice versa. Anyone have an opinion on the bass differences from someone who has used both? Is this a matter of opinion per person? I know one is a closed can and one is “semi open”, so maybe the bass sounds different between the 2? I have heard DT770 blow your ear drums out, but then I have heard the DT880 and 990 have more bass and the bass certainly doesn’t blow my ears out in my 880 250ohm or the 990s I had previously. Thoughts?


----------



## mbyrnes

themrmikemcd said:


> As a non-audiophile listener, would upgrading from a DT880 250ohm to a 600OHM have any noticeable upgrade in terms of sound, assuming I had a powerful enough AMP to power them? (Not sure if double amping the Astro mix amp and Fio E-12 would be enough) I love the DT880 250ohm, but just wondered if the 600 ohm would yield any noticeable differences. While on this subject, My DT880 250 ohm are a used pair and sometimes when I use my mix amp and fio E12 together I’m hearing distortion in some video game sounds when it comes to some explosion sounds on PS4 and wondered if I have a bad pair of headphones or if I am using the amps wrong. I usually set the mix amp to almost all the way up, to maybe in between 2 and 3 o clock (with 3 o clock being all the way up) and use the Fio amp to raise and lower the sound.)
> 
> Also, I have been reading different reviews and some people say the DT770 has more bass than the DT880 and vice versa. Anyone have an opinion on the bass differences from someone who has used both? Is this a matter of opinion per person? I know one is a closed can and one is “semi open”, so maybe the bass sounds different between the 2? I have heard DT770 blow your ear drums out, but then I have heard the DT880 and 990 have more bass and the bass certainly doesn’t blow my ears out in my 880 250ohm or the 990s I had previously. Thoughts?


 
  
 I don't think you stand to gain much from a 250 ohm to 600 ohm swap, unless you were trying to match to a certain OTL amp, and even then that is probably going to be minimum. If you were looking to change up your sound, give us an idea of what you like about the 880 and where you are looking to improve it. Budget also helps a lot. The reviews in the front of this review basically cover the different ohm models for the DT990 I am positive, and possibly the DT880, DT770. MLE did an awesome job with the first page reviews.
  
 I wish I could comment more on the Mixamp and where to dial it in. If I remember correctly, I didn't use mine at full out, to avoid distortion. Try maybe 2/3 on the volume of the Mixamp and control the volume how you have been. Trying the Mixamp at different output levels may yield very different levels of distortion. Each Mixamp revision has had its weirdness about different functions. Mine is a 2011 I believe.


----------



## mbyrnes

dielsacul said:


> I have a astro a40tr with mixamp pro tr and looking for a upgrade. Is the Fidelio X2 worth 237$? Should I buy a new amp or the current one is good enough with the X2?


 
  
 Pretty sure the X2 doesn't really need extra amping. I've never heard it, but it is low ohm and efficient. Should be able to run off of a phone. Double amping never hurts and may bring more out of the X2.


----------



## themrmikemcd

mbyrnes said:


> I don't think you stand to gain much from a 250 ohm to 600 ohm swap, unless you were trying to match to a certain OTL amp, and even then that is probably going to be minimum. If you were looking to change up your sound, give us an idea of what you like about the 880 and where you are looking to improve it. Budget also helps a lot. The reviews in the front of this review basically cover the different ohm models for the DT990 I am positive, and possibly the DT880, DT770. MLE did an awesome job with the first page reviews.
> 
> I wish I could comment more on the Mixamp and where to dial it in. If I remember correctly, I didn't use mine at full out, to avoid distortion. Try maybe 2/3 on the volume of the Mixamp and control the volume how you have been. Trying the Mixamp at different output levels may yield very different levels of distortion. Each Mixamp revision has had its weirdness about different functions. Mine is a 2011 I believe.


Thanks for the reply! You know. I loved the DT990 pro 250 ohm EXCEPT for the mids? I love rock music and videogames but the vocals in songs and games always were too quiet and music and sound seemed to really over power them. I dont think a headphone exists that im looking for. unless there is a DT990 with louder vocals ha. And I will play around with my mixamp (I have the older version with the white slanted stripes under the voice chat knob.


----------



## mbyrnes

themrmikemcd said:


> Thanks for the reply! You know. I loved the DT990 pro 250 ohm EXCEPT for the mids? I love rock music and videogames but the vocals in songs and games always were too quiet and music and sound seemed to really over power them. I dont think a headphone exists that im looking for. unless there is a DT990 with louder vocals ha. And I will play around with my mixamp (I have the older version with the white slanted stripes under the voice chat knob.




You'd be amazed how many headphones sound close to your wants. It's really budget and what you can listen to. You seem newer to the hobby so you'll see, .

Have you tried EQing yet? That's not popular here but I have no idea why. I find dialing down works better than up, introduces less distortion. If you have a headphone that is almost perfect, why not try and make it that way? Some headphones respond very well to EQ, some don't. Isn't perfect but better than being unhappy with a headphone. 

This is far harder on gaming and movies, but music shouldn't be too difficult (unless you have something like the Creative Sound Blaster X7, which has an EQ built in). Most programs on computers have EQ for music. 

If you haven't read the 1st post, that is a good start for ideas on headphones and how they sound.


----------



## dielsacul

mbyrnes said:


> Pretty sure the X2 doesn't really need extra amping. I've never heard it, but it is low ohm and efficient. Should be able to run off of a phone. Double amping never hurts and may bring more out of the X2.




I have both PC and PS4, the amp is mostly for PS4, hah.. Hmm,I will keep the mixamp pro, thanks!
/Just ordered the X2, really excited for it now


----------



## mbyrnes

dielsacul said:


> I have both PC and PS4, the amp is mostly for PS4, hah.. Hmm,I will keep the mixamp pro, thanks!
> /Just ordered the X2, really excited for it now




One I haven't owned but have always wanted. I hope it's what you want!


----------



## Zyker

Has anyone used an X7 with a HifiMan 400i?  I'm contemplating upgrading my K7XX to one of those...


----------



## ToonMechaMan

zyker said:


> Has anyone used an X7 with a HifiMan 400i?  I'm contemplating upgrading my K7XX to one of those...


 

 I've not used the X7 with the 400i but I've used it with the Schiit Stack and I didn't like them compared to my Q701 (which from what I've read are close sounding, albeit superior for gaming, to the K7XX). I found positional cues to be noticeably lacking.


----------



## lenroot77

zyker said:


> Has anyone used an X7 with a HifiMan 400i?  I'm contemplating upgrading my K7XX to one of those...




This won't be so much an upgrade, more of a side grade. With exception to a few, most will agree the the Akg K series has a better soundstage and positioning than the he-400i when used with DH/SBX. With the he-400i you will get a different sound signature and a bit better clarity with details. 

As far as the he-400i and the X7, the X7 has plenty of power for it. The 400i is relatively easy to drive.

IMO the he-400i is acceptable for gaming. Very capable headphone, but for gaming I'd prefer several other options.


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> This won't be so much an upgrade, more of a side grade. With exception to a few, most will agree the the Akg K series has a better soundstage and positioning than the he-400i when used with DH/SBX. With the he-400i you will get a different sound signature and a bit better clarity with details.
> 
> As far as the he-400i and the X7, the X7 has plenty of power for it. The 400i is relatively easy to drive.
> 
> IMO the he-400i is acceptable for gaming. Very capable headphone, but for gaming I'd prefer several other options.




Great points and I back you up 100%.


----------



## Zyker

Which ones would you suggest?


----------



## mbyrnes

zyker said:


> Which ones would you suggest?




Where are you trying to go with your headphone sound? What improvements over the AKG are you looking for? Many here have owned or still own an AKG K7XX or similar headphone (Annies, K702, K712, etc).


----------



## Zyker

My K7XX can sometimes seem a little recessed in its mids and loose in the treble... I dunno.  They don't seem too detailed, to me?  
  
 They're probably the most comfortable cans I've ever had and their soundstage is _fantastic_, though.


----------



## Vindication

Any of you Console/PC gamers looking at getting an A16?


----------



## Weatherlight

vindication said:


> Any of you Console/PC gamers looking at getting an A16?




Me. I pre-ordered a 2U version.


----------



## mbyrnes

zyker said:


> My K7XX can sometimes seem a little recessed in its mids and loose in the treble... I dunno.  They don't seem too detailed, to me?
> 
> They're probably the most comfortable cans I've ever had and their soundstage is _fantastic_, though.




I'm waiting for the Sennheiser PC37X from Massdrop. I'm hoping it's tuned a little better for gaming. I love my Annies, but they can be improved. 



vindication said:


> Any of you Console/PC gamers looking at getting an A16?




I'm waiting for my taxes to be done. This past year is a mess and I need an accountant to prepare them. Once I figure out my monthly income, I'll most likely preorder it. I really wanted the A8, but it was entirely too expensive. While the A16 is not chump change, I feel it's worthwhile at its price.


----------



## illram

zyker said:


> Has anyone used an X7 with a HifiMan 400i?  I'm contemplating upgrading my K7XX to one of those...


 
 Yes, I own both and the 400i is better in every way than the 7XX with the X7. I guess I am weird in disagreeing with others here on that score. The 7XX sounds closed in compared to the 400i to me on the X7. Before anyone says there is something wrong with my 7XX, it sounds great with music and other stuff, but for gaming I had to EQ the hell out of it before it was acceptable. Worth spending a bunch of money on? Maybe not. But it is better to me.


----------



## Change is Good

Not weird at all. I prefer the 400i over the K7XX for gaming. It's just a cleaner sounding headphone and, while the soundstage width isn't has big, it has better depth and positioning.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Not weird at all. I prefer the 400i over the K7XX for gaming. It's just a cleaner sounding headphone and, while the soundstage width isn't has big, it has better depth and positioning.




You just like your fancy cups!


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> You just like your fancy cups!




They actually have 350 cups on, now. The paint used didn't work out long term like the X00 for some reason. Was given a nice fancy cable to make up for the paint cost.


----------



## Change is Good

Oh and the K7XX went bye bye while the 400i was still metallic blue


----------



## Zyker

Well, I could get a 400i on Amazon for only $250 right now... that seems like a really good price for one that (some of you) consider an upgrade from my K7XX... someday, I'll replace my a900x, too...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Change, 
  
 do you prefer your Fostex TH or your 400i for gaming? What strengths/disadvantages do you see in comparison? CHANGE! WHAT DO YOU SEE? CHANGE! WHAT DO YOU SEE? CHANGE! CHANGE!


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

I prefer my Monolith 560 for gaming over the 400i, bigger soundstage and a little more bass.


----------



## illram

$250 is what I got my 400i for, they go down to that price alot. Nonetheless in that price tier the 400i is one of the best you can get in my not so humble opinion. If you're curious give it a shot.


----------



## Evshrug

vindication said:


> Any of you Console/PC gamers looking at getting an A16?



Yup! Day one preorder, after CanJam impressions from others I was FAR to curious! Surround (and the resulting immersion) is one of my favorite audio things, though my appreciation of music has seen a renaissance (and I haven't heard anything to appreciate surround in music yet).

Going to get a customized head/ear measurement from Smyth at CanJam NYC, will post impressions!




mbyrnes said:


> I'm waiting for the Sennheiser PC37X from Massdrop. I'm hoping it's tuned a little better for gaming. I love my Annies, but they can be improved.
> I'm waiting for my taxes to be done. This past year is a mess and I need an accountant to prepare them. Once I figure out my monthly income, I'll most likely preorder it. I really wanted the A8, but it was entirely too expensive. While the A16 is not chump change, I feel it's worthwhile at its price.



I'll tell you about it after CanJam NYC. Also, the PC37X definitely has a warmer, fuller sound than the AKGs, less soundstage but still does Surround imaging well. It's not the ultimate answer for everyone... but it's VERY well suited for gaming, and I'm confident most will love the sound.

Sometimes a mid-fi to mid-fi sidegrade isn't objectively an upgrade... but it might please personal preferences so much more that subjectively a sidegrade can feel like an upgrade 





fegefeuer said:


> Change,
> 
> do you prefer your Fostex TH or your 400i for gaming? What strengths/disadvantages do you see in comparison? CHANGE! WHAT DO YOU SEE? CHANGE! WHAT DO YOU SEE? CHANGE! CHANGE!




CHANGE! CHANGE! CHANGE!


----------



## illram

Curious if anyone here has compared the Audioquest Nighthawk to the 400i or 7XX for surround gaming?


----------



## Find the Door

So here's my dilemma - I'm getting taxes back and will have enough for either one. 

Looking at the HD800-S or the T1 Gen 2 to pair with my x7 Limited Edition (have 3601s and 3602s opamps installed). Which is gonna be better for gaming in terms of positioning?

Currently I have Beyerdynamic MMX300s and they're great for positioning - just looking for an open back. Tried the K712 Pros which people praise but my goodness they didn't separate sounds during busy moments well and definitely lacked detail (and were surprisingly hard to drive).


So yeah I guess I value positional accuracy and detail above all else. Which wins the HD800-S or T1 Gen 2?


----------



## Zyker

Those are some nice looking cans... I've contemplated going straight from my K7XX to something like an Ether or an Ether Flow (or even replacing my a900x with the Ether C)... but I can't justify it, yet; hence my interest in the 400i.


----------



## Change is Good

It's time for a name change.

I'll see myself out...


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> It's time for a name change.
> 
> I'll see myself out...


 

 Some of us can make that happen...


----------



## ls13coco

zyker said:


> Has anyone used an X7 with a HifiMan 400i?  I'm contemplating upgrading my K7XX to one of those...


 

 Been using the combo for quite awhile, love it. I do find my 712s to be better for competitive FPS, though.
 Possibly the AT 1000 or 2000 would be your type of can, too?


----------



## L J EDM

Thanks to you guys I chose my first audiophile headphone, will finally get to have a listen to it with the xbox one later today.

Anyway I'm here again, but this time about a proper amp. Has anyone tried the schiit magni/magni 2 with the AKG k612, and turtle beach dss2?


----------



## Yethal

axelcloris said:


> Some of us can make that happen...


 

 Would it be possible to rename Change is Good to Change is Bad so his profile would say "Change is Bad formerly known as Change is Good" ?


evshrug said:


> Yup! Day one preorder, after CanJam impressions from others I was FAR to curious! Surround (and the resulting immersion) is one of my favorite audio things, though my appreciation of music has seen a renaissance (and I haven't heard anything to appreciate surround in music yet).


 
 Have You tried listening to native 5.1 music? You can find samples here. Maybe You didn't like surround in music before because it was native stereo music.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> Have You tried listening to native 5.1 music? You can find samples here. Maybe You didn't like surround in music before because it was native stereo music.




I need to do this. I have several 5.1 SACDs and Blu-rays. Actually don't know why I haven't yet!


----------



## themrmikemcd

Whats a good $100-$200 range headphone for playing a game like Alien Isolation on PS4 pairing the Astro mix amp and fio e12 amp. Looking for something good for hearing the different areas the Alien is moving and hearing all the little sounds the ship is making? I had the AD700x at one point and it sounded good. But was curious if there was something else out there or better for the price. I have the dt880 250 ohm,shp9500, 668s,M40x,CALS, and they hyper X cloud 2. Anything out there in my price range that would do any better than what I have? Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

themrmikemcd said:


> Whats a good $100-$200 range headphone for playing a game like Alien Isolation on PS4 pairing the Astro mix amp and fio e12 amp. Looking for something good for hearing the different areas the Alien is moving and hearing all the little sounds the ship is making? I had the AD700x at one point and it sounded good. But was curious if there was something else out there or better for the price. I have the dt880 250 ohm,shp9500, 668s,M40x,CALS, and they hyper X cloud 2. Anything out there in my price range that would do any better than what I have? Thanks!


 

 Have You tried HD598?


----------



## themrmikemcd

yethal said:


> Have You tried HD598?


 I have actually thanks! I used to have the black special edition. I think I'm asking too much out of 2 speakers arent I? I probably just need to invest in a nice home theater surround sound system lol.


----------



## rudyae86

themrmikemcd said:


> I have actually thanks! I used to have the black special edition. I think I'm asking too much out of 2 speakers arent I? I probably just need to invest in a nice home theater surround sound system lol.


 
 There really isn't anything "better" as I have come to understand after 2 or 3 years of being around here. Everything seems to be more subjective and personal preference. However, there are 2 things to consider...well more like 3. Do you want to be a competitive gamer? Do you want more immersion? Or do you want a balance of both (trade offs of one thing to another)
  
 I simply choose the latter, mainly because I always want that oomph at the low end when playing games with lot's of stuff going on.
  
 So the question is...what are you expecting from 2 speakers?
  
 Also, a surround sound system is also a hit or miss and usually need to spend a good amount of money for the real mid to high end gear to get the good surround sound system. Not just that but the set up process along with room acoustics and what not come into play. It's a whole other dilemma and if you choose to still have voice chat with friends, throw that out the window because if you are blasting those speakers, your friends will definitely hear all of that and will mute you lol.
  
 Just my opinion and personal experience.


----------



## themrmikemcd

rudyae86 said:


> There really isn't anything "better" as I have come to understand after 2 or 3 years of being around here. Everything seems to be more subjective and personal preference. However, there are 2 things to consider...well more like 3. Do you want to be a competitive gamer? Do you want more immersion? Or do you want a balance of both (trade offs of one thing to another)
> 
> I simply choose the latter, mainly because I always want that oomph at the low end when playing games with lot's of stuff going on.
> 
> ...


 Thanks so much for your input! Yea. Im just a casual gamer who doesn't game online at all. I just want the best sound possible and to hear all the details and sounds. Like in a game such as Alien Isolation. I want to feel like i am in that room with the alien. And not just seeing the game playing and im watching it. If that makes sense?


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Would it be possible to rename Change is Good to Change is Bad so his profile would say "Change is Bad formerly known as Change is Good" ?




It has crossed my mind. I've been reeeeeeeeally bad boy.


----------



## Zyker

> Originally Posted by *Is13coco*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  
 The K7XX is used with my PS4, which isn't my FPS system... I play FPS games on my PC with my a900x.  I'd love to replace them but they have to be closed back which means, from my research, I'm kind of limited in my "upgrades"... as I've said, I've toyed with the idea of just jumping straight to an Ether C or something but that seems crazy.
  
 Do you think the 400i offers more "oomph" with the X7 than the K7XX?  I'm looking for a really nice, immersive sound when I'm playing my mostly single-player games (like FF15 or the upcoming Persona 5).  Soundstage and positioning is important, yes, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a little of each if the overall quality is better (though, I'd preferably love to have all 3).


----------



## illram

zyker said:


> The K7XX is used with my PS4, which isn't my FPS system... I play FPS games on my PC with my a900x.  I'd love to replace them but they have to be closed back which means, from my research, I'm kind of limited in my "upgrades"... as I've said, I've toyed with the idea of just jumping straight to an Ether C or something but that seems crazy.
> 
> Do you think the 400i offers more "oomph" with the X7 than the K7XX?  I'm looking for a really nice, immersive sound when I'm playing my mostly single-player games (like FF15 or the upcoming Persona 5).  Soundstage and positioning is important, yes, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a little of each if the overall quality is better (though, I'd preferably love to have all 3).


 
 You can EQ as much bass as you want with the X7 with both cans. I have both and the 400i will sound better and require less messing with the levels to get the "oomph" you want. The 400i is also better with positioning, to me, but you will find differing opinions there. If it were me and I could go back and only buy one, I would get the 400i, no question.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> Have You tried listening to native 5.1 music? You can find samples here. Maybe You didn't like surround in music before because it was native stereo music.



Thanks for the samples, I did collect several of the Z+ apps that have samples of Zimmerman soundtrack songs in DTS X... and they sound different but not really better or significantly directional. I think part of what makes Surround work for me in games is the interactivity, how it changes from how I change my relative direction in game. We'll see how I feel when I get the Realiser, where the music will stay in the same relative position when I turn my head physically in the real world 




themrmikemcd said:


> Whats a good $100-$200 range headphone for playing a game like Alien Isolation on PS4 pairing the Astro mix amp and fio e12 amp. Looking for something good for hearing the different areas the Alien is moving and hearing all the little sounds the ship is making? I had the AD700x at one point and it sounded good. But was curious if there was something else out there or better for the price. I have the dt880 250 ohm,shp9500, 668s,M40x,CALS, and they hyper X cloud 2. Anything out there in my price range that would do any better than what I have? Thanks!



Nothing much better at that price point... which is by today's standards considered entry-level instead of high end. I prefer AKG's sound over Beyerdynamics or Sony's MA900 at that price range, but I haven't heard the Philips X series. If you raise your budget, there are headphones that make a pretty significant difference in detail and "holographic realism." Manufacturers can only pack in so much engineering and quality into $200 headphones.




zyker said:


> The K7XX is used with my PS4, which isn't my FPS system... I play FPS games on my PC with my a900x.  I'd love to replace them but they have to be closed back which means, from my research, I'm kind of limited in my "upgrades"... as I've said, I've toyed with the idea of just jumping straight to an Ether C or something but that seems crazy.
> 
> Do you think the 400i offers more "oomph" with the X7 than the K7XX?  I'm looking for a really nice, immersive sound when I'm playing my mostly single-player games (like FF15 or the upcoming Persona 5).  Soundstage and positioning is important, yes, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a little of each if the overall quality is better (though, I'd preferably love to have all 3).



Just to mention, sure it has been mentioned before, the HE400i is an open backed can. A VERY open backed can, which can be a great thing or an ill-suited thing, depending on the situation.

Did you see the announcement of MrSpeakers new Aeon? THAT HAS MY ATTENTION!!!
http://www.head-fi.org/t/833820/aeon-mrspeakers-new-closed-back-planar-magnetic-headphone


----------



## themrmikemcd

evshrug said:


> Nothing much better at that price point... which is by today's standards considered entry-level instead of high end. I prefer AKG's sound over Beyerdynamics or Sony's MA900 at that price range, but I haven't heard the Philips X series. If you raise your budget, there are headphones that make a pretty significant difference in detail and "holographic realism." Manufacturers can only pack in so much engineering and quality into $200 headphones.


 That was my fear.. Wish i could sell all my current headphones or trade them all in for a nice $400 pair of audiophile headphones..


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Did you see the announcement of MrSpeakers new Aeon? THAT HAS MY ATTENTION!!!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/833820/aeon-mrspeakers-new-closed-back-planar-magnetic-headphone


 
 If Ether C and HifiMan HE1000 had drunk sex this is what the resulting baby would look like.


----------



## Zyker

evshrug said:


> Just to mention, sure it has been mentioned before, the HE400i is an open backed can. A VERY open backed can, which can be a great thing or an ill-suited thing, depending on the situation.
> 
> Did you see the announcement of MrSpeakers new Aeon? THAT HAS MY ATTENTION!!!
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/833820/aeon-mrspeakers-new-closed-back-planar-magnetic-headphone


 
 Yeah, I know that the 400i are open backed... I'm good with open back for my PS4 gaming, since I'm not worried about sound leakage as much with that.  I just want a good set of cans so I can more fully enjoy my PS4.  My PC, on the other hand, needs to have a closed back (since my computer is in the bedroom and I was disturbing my wife with my old open backed cans when she's sleeping).
  
 Man, I was WAITING for MrSpeakers to announce a more affordable pair of cans!  AND it's closed back?  AND it goes on sale tonight?  Sold.  I'll use those to replace my a900x, I think...


----------



## lenroot77

zyker said:


> Yeah, I know that the 400i are open backed... I'm good with open back for my PS4 gaming, since I'm not worried about sound leakage as much with that.  I just want a good set of cans so I can more fully enjoy my PS4.  My PC, on the other hand, needs to have a closed back (since my computer is in the bedroom and I was disturbing my wife with my old open backed cans when she's sleeping).
> 
> Man, I was WAITING for MrSpeakers to announce a more affordable pair of cans!  AND it's closed back?  AND it goes on sale tonight?  Sold.  I'll use those to replace my a900x, I think...




More affordable at 799.99?!?! Ha now that's funny!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty, I wonder about it's tonal balance.


----------



## lenroot77

Has to be very comfy at 340 grams!


----------



## Zyker

lenroot77 said:


> More affordable at 799.99?!?! Ha now that's funny!


 
 As opposed to $1800 for some Ether Flows?  YES.


----------



## lenroot77

zyker said:


> As opposed to $1800 for some Ether Flows?  YES.




Well 1800 is a bargain compared to Fang's 6000 dollar Edition 6's! Yeah I know it's all relative, but in the last few years things are getting a little silly imo.


----------



## AxelCloris

lenroot77 said:


> Has to be very comfy at 340 grams!


 

 They are very comfortable, but they won't be prying me away from my Ether Flow.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> Pretty, I wonder about it's tonal balance.





I'm assuming it will be "neutral-ish" like all his other headphones. Probably toned similar to the Ethers and Alphas.




lenroot77 said:


> More affordable at 799.99?!?! Ha now that's funny!


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> Well 1800 is a bargain compared to Fang's 6000 dollar Edition 6's! Yeah I know it's all relative, but in the last few years things are getting a little silly imo.


 
  
 Listened to the Edition 6's ($6,000) yesterday on their new EF1000 amplifier ($15,000, 20 W headphone output!) with another $2,000 in music player and Dock. I was COMPLETELY underwhelmed. I would have liked to listen to the amp with different headphones though. My personal preference for Hifiman was the Edition X > HE1000 > Edition 6. I don't think I heard any of the 30 or so who listened to it say anything positive. I am hoping that something was wrong with the setup. One major factor was the crap music selection they had on their HM901. 
  
 Yes things are getting insane in the headphone world. Once I get the Edition Xs home, I am pretty damn sure I am done buying headphones. I'll be keeping the Fostex Ebonies, PC37X once they come, and that is about it. The XV2 literally checked every box for me. Like the first time I heard the speakers I have, I knew within seconds they were my ideal sound. and as I continued to listen, that initial impression was just driven home even more. The Auralic Taurus MKII driving them was also insane good. I smartly avoided the SR009/007 setups, as I don't want to ever spend that kind of money on this hobby. I am at 98% now, and that last 2% will cost far too much. After this I think I am going to go for a good turntable, and then Realizer, and be done spending money on gear.


----------



## Evshrug

lenroot77 said:


> More affordable at 799.99?!?! Ha now that's funny!



It's a fair amount of money, but it should better $300 headphones, and less than half the cost of their other current closed headphone. Everything's relative, but t's making me rethink my E-MU Teak plans and stretch the budget. Still feel like I've gotta save a bit more.




zyker said:


> As opposed to $1800 for some Ether Flows?  YES.



x2 for this!

Lately, MrSpeaker's closed headphones have been balanced/flat/reference, crazy good extension and a little subbass lift but less midbass hump than typical headphones... tho the Flow C is supposed to have a fair amount of midbass.


----------



## lenroot77

Settle down young man it's only been announced...


----------



## Evshrug

Been wanting a MrSpeakers since before Mad's review  Gonna check it out for myself at CanJam.


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> [gif]http://imgur.com/gallery/ULkwwZd[/gif]
> 
> Been wanting a MrSpeakers since before Mad's review  Gonna check it out for myself at CanJam. Not like you aren't buying new headphones all the time




Yes yes yes... I'm just being silly!


----------



## Zyker

evshrug said:


> It's a fair amount of money, but it should better $300 headphones, and less than half the cost of their other current closed headphone. Everything's relative, but t's making me rethink my E-MU Teak plans and stretch the budget. Still feel like I've gotta save a bit more.
> x2 for this!
> 
> Lately, MrSpeaker's closed headphones have been balanced/flat/reference, crazy good extension and a little subbass lift but less midbass hump than typical headphones... tho the Flow C is supposed to have a fair amount of midbass.


 
 I had been interested in trying/finding a pair of Mad/Alpha Dogs but they had been discontinued by the time they really hit my radar, which meant I'd probably spend a lot more than originally.  After I saw that MrSpeakers had started their own stuff, I was pretty excited to try it out... until I saw the price!  So, I decided to either 1) save up for the Ethers or 2) save up for the Ethers and HOPE that they release some less expensive cans.
  
 This probably means I won't be getting the 400i, though, which is only _slightly_ disappointing... sorry, PS4, you'll have to continue to sound pretty good on my K7XXs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And I'm over here sitting just waiting on the riiiiiight wireless headphone/headset, whichever comes first.


----------



## mbyrnes

I'm buying a pair of Hifiman Edition X from a local headfier, picking them up tomorrow afternoon. Listened to them at a local meet yesterday, and I was truly blown away. Literally left last night with the intent of securing a pair within the next month. In the meet impressions thread, he listed them for sale, and I jumped! 

I got to listen to some VERY impressive gear, but nothing grabbed me like the X. Finally got to listen to the Elear, HD800, LCD2 & X, and a few others on my audition list. I'm going to be selling a good bit of my current stuff very soon. Need to figure out pricing on a lot of it. These headphones literally replace what a handful of the others did.


----------



## Evshrug

mad lust envy said:


> And I'm over here sitting just waiting on the riiiiiight wireless headphone/headset, whichever comes first.



Still care about surround, or mostly playing side-scroll or other games where surround isn't as important these days? Cuz if not, those Sony 1000W-something Bluetooth headphones are supposed to be very good.


----------



## Zyker

mad lust envy said:


> And I'm over here sitting just waiting on the riiiiiight wireless headphone/headset, whichever comes first.


 
 With how everything is arranged in my house, I don't have to worry about wireless... but I'd love to hear when you find a good pair.  Especially the mic... I'm running off of a ModMic, at the moment, and it's pretty good.


----------



## raband

Am wrapped with the Sennheiser RS185's for my wireless setup at home


----------



## Zyker

Dang it... I just ordered the Aeon and I'm STILL considering ordering the 400i.  I'm just imagining my PS4 weeping!


----------



## lenroot77

zyker said:


> Dang it... I just ordered the Aeon and I'm STILL considering ordering the 400i.  I'm just imagining my PS4 weeping!




Why don't you buy this pair? At this price you won't lose much should u sell them again in future. 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/833882/he400i


----------



## Zyker

lenroot77 said:


> Why don't you buy this pair? At this price you won't lose much should u sell them again in future.
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/833882/he400i


 
 You're a monster!  However, that makes me think that I should try to sell my K7XX, if I'm thinking about getting a 400i...


----------



## lenroot77

zyker said:


> You're a monster!  However, that makes me think that I should try to sell my K7XX, if I'm thinking about getting a 400i...




If you can, wait till you have the 400i. Then you can compare and be sure about which one you prefer to sell. Both headphones usually move very well on the classifieds.


----------



## Evshrug

Agree on the A/B!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn, Resident Evil 7 in VR is amazing and made me realize how much of a scared man I can be. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




  
 The 3D Audio is really good, you can hear footsteps directly above your head etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> Am wrapped with the Sennheiser RS185's for my wireless setup at home




I have been eyeing this for the past few years, but I'm just being patient and waiting for the next refresh. wireless tech has improved the past few yuears, which is why I'm waiting.

Evs, I could always just go from the digital or analog out of the X7, to an input on the base of one of the wireless Senns for SBX.

I definityely don't want bluetooth, since having some form of physical input on a transmitter seems ideal.

I'm just really done with wires. My HE400 has been stored away basically for like half a year now, and use the KSC75 directly off the PS4 controller at night, or speakers during the day. I want surround, but if I have a choice between headphones and the speakers, I go with the speakers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm aware this setup doesn't make sense atm. Extended mouse pad in front of a 65" TV that is on a 'computer desk'. My original intent was getting a good monitor, but I couldn't wait. I have to get an actual TV stand in the fuiture, and move my laptop to the computer desk, and rearrange the room. 

Such is the life of an impulsive person.

As you can see, the X7 is next to the TV, which makes using headphones far from ideal, as I sit quite a bit further away. The X7 nowadays is used exclusively to power the Sony speakers, which is also not ideal, as the speakers ohmage isn't ideal (yet) again) for the X7. Sounds 'good enough'; for now, until I get some legit speakers. I actually want self powered speakers though so I don't have to worry about all that. Definitely don't wanna buy another amp/receiver for that.

In my future are:

New desktop PC
New speakers
Changing the extended mouse pad some grey/black
New TV stand
New hdr monitor (this isn't something I'm desperate to get atm, as my TV is a fantastic display).


----------



## lenroot77

fegefeuer said:


> Damn, Resident Evil 7 in VR is amazing and made me realize how much of a scared man I can be. :confused_face:
> 
> The 3D Audio is really good, you can hear footsteps directly above your head etc.




I've heard good things! Playing on pc I take it?


----------



## Yethal

I see a non anime avatar. Who are you and what have you done with Mad imposter!


----------



## Fegefeuer

lenroot77 said:


> I've heard good things! Playing on pc I take it?


 
  
 No VR on PC so I play on the PS4 Pro+PSVR+my old G4me One. 
  
 Thinking about getting an easy to drive headphone for this. I wonder if the 598 is much better than the G4ME One (if it's based on the 558 then it is) but I suspect I have to go a bit higher. 
  
 Edit: *You can play with 3D Audio also without VR.*


----------



## raband

mad lust envy said:


> Evs, I could always just go from the digital or analog out of the X7, to an input on the base of one of the wireless Senns for SBX.


 
  
 That's how I've got mine setup.


mad lust envy said:


> I'm just really done with wires.


 
  
 Sonos analogue into the base (X7 digital into it) lets me add the 185's to the totally wirefree Sonos ecosystem


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> I see a non anime avatar. Who are you and what have you done with Mad imposter!




I recently played Undertale, and it left a huge impact on me. Had to represent.


----------



## mbyrnes

mad lust envy said:


> I'm aware this setup doesn't make sense atm. Extended mouse pad in front of a 65" TV that is on a 'computer desk'. My original intent was getting a good monitor, but I couldn't wait. I have to get an actual TV stand in the fuiture, and move my laptop to the computer desk, and rearrange the room.
> 
> Such is the life of an impulsive person.
> 
> ...




I run a 15' optical cable from my TV/component stand to a table next to my couch. The X7 and other headphone gear lives next to me, which is super convenient and wires aren't really much issue. The optical cable runs under an area rug, so it is out of sight. 

When I used to pull the Mixamp and headphones out from my TV stand, it drove me insane, and I was looking for wireless regularly. Moving my headphone gear next to me eliminated my biggest sticking point. I also find myself using my headphones far more now!

I realize everyone's rooms are different, and some just can't do what I did. There may be options to improve the problem, or potentially eliminate it if you get creative. 

Just a thought, I know you've been hating wires a few years now. Really hope you finally get a setup that you're happy with the sound and storage of.


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> I'm aware this setup doesn't make sense atm. Extended mouse pad in front of a 65" TV that is on a 'computer desk'. My original intent was getting a good monitor, but I couldn't wait. I have to get an actual TV stand in the fuiture, and move my laptop to the computer desk, and rearrange the room.
> 
> Such is the life of an impulsive person.
> 
> ...


which tv was this one?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I think it's a "Wormface XTQ" 50 something inch 3D TV with 4bit TN Panel curved and 1:200 contrast with one HDMI in and single speaker frontal projection surround tech


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

themrmikemcd said:


> which tv was this one?




Vizio P65-C1

Also have a 65" Samsung KS8500 in the living room.

The Vizio is a better display.


Feggy.


----------



## Find the Door

themrmikemcd said:


> which tv was this one?




Looks like an 8000 series Samsung. I personally game on a LG E6 55" Oled.

Anyone have a take on the HD800S (black) vs T1 Gen 2?

Looking for an endgame headphone


----------



## Zyker

mad lust envy said:


> I recently played Undertale, and it left a huge impact on me. Had to represent.


 
 I love me some Undertale!  I even have an Undyne Undying character on FF14. 
  
 Have you tried OneShot?  I _highly_ recommend it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

find the door said:


> Looks like an 8000 series Samsung. I personally game on a LG E6 55" Oled.
> 
> Anyone have a take on the HD800S (black) vs T1 Gen 2?
> 
> Looking for an endgame headphone




I know both headphones (even had two pairs of T1 2nd gen to evaluate) and the short answer is:

Used HD800+SD Mod (S model is too expensive)

T1's only advantage is 5 years of warranty and cheaper accessoires. Yet it's still excellent for gaming and movies but simply cannot touch the HD 800.


----------



## Arniesb

find the door said:


> Looks like an 8000 series Samsung. I personally game on a LG E6 55" Oled.
> 
> Anyone have a take on the HD800S (black) vs T1 Gen 2?
> 
> Looking for an endgame headphone


I Have HD800S and T1.1 T1 was bought first and after quite some time i bought HD800S. In first days when i got HD800S it sounded distant in comparison to T1, less precise, less sharpness for gunshots and such. Then i thought maybe HD800S need more burn in or something and then i played few weeks with only HD800S. And who whould have thought? After 2 weeks then i tried T1 again it sounded more distant in comparison to HD800S, less engaging, like 2D in comparison to HD800S 3D. After that comparison i never gamed with T1. HD800S is a king for gaming with a right system!!! And knowing that T1.2 is even less engaging than original T1 then i whould say HD800S no contest! Better for music, better for movies, better for gaming. Just buy HD800S!!!


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> Damn, Resident Evil 7 in VR is amazing and made me realize how much of a scared man I can be. :confused_face:
> 
> The 3D Audio is really good, you can hear footsteps directly above your head etc.



The future!!!! Hopefully!
I'd be a scaredy man for sure, haha!



fegefeuer said:


> No VR on PC so I play on the PS4 Pro+PSVR+my old G4me One.
> 
> Edit: *You can play with 3D Audio also without VR.*



Really? Even if you don't have the HMD?
And good to know the G4ME ONE fits with the PS VR on your head... does the HD800 still fit along with the PSVR? I got to try the PS VR that one time, but I wasn't sure if the earpads and headband would fit around the PS VR's halo.


----------



## Change is Good

Did any of you play the For Honor beta? What were your thoughts? Seems like they're doing one last beta run to stress test the servers and will be open to everyone.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Did any of you play the For Honor beta? What were your thoughts? Seems like they're doing one last beta run to stress test the servers and will be open to everyone.


 
 I never got to play. Ended up going out of town the day it started and came back after it had ended. Curious on people's thoughts as well.


----------



## nicobombai

change is good said:


> Did any of you play the For Honor beta? What were your thoughts? Seems like they're doing one last beta run to stress test the servers and will be open to everyone.


 
 Ubisoft gave me the key on the last day of the closed beta.. *Facepalm*
  
 There will be an open beta tho on 9 - 12 Feb..


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> I never got to play. Ended up going out of town the day it started and came back after it had ended. Curious on people's thoughts as well.


 
  
 Hacking and slashing your way to and from objectives with teammates is a blast. Felt like we were playing a middle age themed CoD/Battlefield in third person, which was refreshing since I've had shooter fatigue for a while.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Hacking and slashing your way to and from objectives with teammates is a blast. Felt like we were playing a middle age themed CoD/Battlefield in third person, which was refreshing since I've had shooter fatigue for a while.


 
 Sounds like a good time to me. Looking forward to playing it


----------



## pervysage

Apparently the new Xbox One Preview update has some new audio settings included? 

"New spatial audio output settings for developers: To enable more immersive experiences for Xbox One, we have added a number of audio output features in Settings. If you are a developer on Xbox One, the new settings will allow you to add Dolby Atmos for Home Theater, Dolby Atmos for Headphones and Windows HRTF support to your streaming media application or game. For Xbox One owners, hang tight and soon you’ll be able experience even more incredible audio on your console."

https://news.xbox.com/2017/01/23/xbox-creators-update-preview/


----------



## mbyrnes

pervysage said:


> Apparently the new Xbox One Preview update has some new audio settings included?
> 
> "New spatial audio output settings for developers: To enable more immersive experiences for Xbox One, we have added a number of audio output features in Settings. If you are a developer on Xbox One, the new settings will allow you to add Dolby Atmos for Home Theater, Dolby Atmos for Headphones and Windows HRTF support to your streaming media application or game. For Xbox One owners, hang tight and soon you’ll be able experience even more incredible audio on your console."
> 
> https://news.xbox.com/2017/01/23/xbox-creators-update-preview/




Very interesting! Hopefully it is easy to implement so games actually have this feature. No idea how the X7 or Mixamp will benefit, if at all. Hopefully it's native on Scorpio and used with every game.


----------



## mbyrnes

So where is the best place to research what price to sell used gear at? I hope something exist like that!


----------



## Change is Good

mbyrnes said:


> So where is the best place to research what price to sell used gear at? I hope something exist like that!


 
  
 Search through the classifieds. You can also pull up closed ads and see what they sold for.


----------



## AxelCloris

mbyrnes said:


> So where is the best place to research what price to sell used gear at? I hope something exist like that!




I use hifishark, it's great for getting prices.


----------



## rudyae86

A bit off topic but GAWD!
  
 If only more game devs used 3D audio, the world would be a better place lol. Obviously this video is far from perfect but current technologies seem to be getting better and better to recording 3D audio.

 I need to get me one of these mics for when I travel to places


----------



## Fegefeuer

evshrug said:


> The future!!!! Hopefully!
> I'd be a scaredy man for sure, haha!
> Really? Even if you don't have the HMD?
> And good to know the G4ME ONE fits with the PS VR on your head... does the HD800 still fit along with the PSVR? I got to try the PS VR that one time, but I wasn't sure if the earpads and headband would fit around the PS VR's halo.


 
  
 Yes, you can use 3D Audio without VR HMD. Not sure if the PC version allows this too, most likely it does.
 Haven't tested the HD 800 but from the fit of the G4ME One I can surely conclude that it will not be a good idea to test the HD800 with it. The cups are simply too big and you don#t want to scratch them or put uneven pressure on the pads.
  
 Looks like I gotta search for the best easy to drive gaming headphone.


----------



## raband

rudyae86 said:


> A bit off topic but GAWD!
> 
> If only more game devs used 3D audio, the world would be a better place lol. Obviously this video is far from perfect but current technologies seem to be getting better and better to recording 3D audio.
> 
> I need to get me one of these mics for when I travel to places




  
 Have a go at a few on this channel (ones marked 3d audio are binaural)
  
 https://www.youtube.com/user/RacingLineAustralia/videos


----------



## rudyae86

raband said:


> Have a go at a few on this channel (ones marked 3d audio are binaural)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/RacingLineAustralia/videos




I'm at work right now and youube is blocked lol. Will give them a try when I get home. 

Those videos make you feel like you are there.

I looked up how much a 3DIIO mic cost and its around $400 to $500 with those fake ears lol but would be really worth it when recording stuff when I am out and about.


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Did any of you play the For Honor beta? What were your thoughts? Seems like they're doing one last beta run to stress test the servers and will be open to everyone.


 

 I played. Aside from terrible networking it was really fun. Netcode heavily favours high-ping players, people were dropping out of sessions every match but the gameplay itself is good.


----------



## ls13coco

zyker said:


> The K7XX is used with my PS4, which isn't my FPS system... I play FPS games on my PC with my a900x.  I'd love to replace them but they have to be closed back which means, from my research, I'm kind of limited in my "upgrades"... as I've said, I've toyed with the idea of just jumping straight to an Ether C or something but that seems crazy.
> 
> Do you think the 400i offers more "oomph" with the X7 than the K7XX?  I'm looking for a really nice, immersive sound when I'm playing my mostly single-player games (like FF15 or the upcoming Persona 5).  Soundstage and positioning is important, yes, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a little of each if the overall quality is better (though, I'd preferably love to have all 3).




The he400i does have the most oomph out of my cans I'd say, and is easier to drive than the k712. I'd say the he400I has a more intimate soundstage by a good margin compared to the k712, but the he400i has great imaging. Currently, I used the k712 for horror games and competitive fps, he400i for everything else.


----------



## Zyker

ls13coco said:


> The he400i does have the most oomph out of my cans I'd say, and is easier to drive than the k712. I'd say the he400I has a more intimate soundstage by a good margin compared to the k712, but the he400i has great imaging. Currently, I used the k712 for horror games and competitive fps, he400i for everything else.


 
 This is really fascinating!  Thanks for your response... I don't _tend_ to play tons of FPS on my console (those are reserved for my PC), other than my desire to have a go with Destiny.  So, while the soundstage is more closed in the 400i, you'd say it still has excellent imaging?  I'm really excited to have a little more body to things like Uncharted 4 (and lots of upcoming games because this year is awful).
  
 My PC cans (a900x) are getting replaced with the MrSpeakers Aeons, once they come out.  I'm _super_ excited to see how RE7, Titanfall 2, or Doom sound with them.


----------



## ls13coco

zyker said:


> This is really fascinating!  Thanks for your response... I don't _tend_ to play tons of FPS on my console (those are reserved for my PC), other than my desire to have a go with Destiny.  So, while the soundstage is more closed in the 400i, you'd say it still has excellent imaging?  I'm really excited to have a little more body to things like Uncharted 4 (and lots of upcoming games because this year is awful).
> 
> My PC cans (a900x) are getting replaced with the MrSpeakers Aeons, once they come out.  I'm _super_ excited to see how RE7, Titanfall 2, or Doom sound with them.




I'm no expert, and to me I can't differ the imaging of the 712 vs 400i but I've read a few comparisons where people said the 400i has more accurate imaging than AKG. So, I'm sure the imaging will be as good if not better than the k7xx 
Oh wow, hope to hear your impressions on those! I haven't taken the closed back plunge yet. Well, all my lower end HPs were but I mean no nice closed back plunge yet!


----------



## Zyker

ls13coco said:


> Oh wow, hope to hear your impressions on those! I haven't taken the closed back plunge yet. Well, all my lower end HPs were but I mean no nice closed back plunge yet!


 
 I'm "forced" to use a closed back on my PC because the sounds from it bothered my wife.  I've been using an a900x for a long time and have been wanting to upgrade them for quite a while... I was planning on getting an Ether C _someday _but knew it would be a long time until that.  The Aeons fell right in a sweet spot for me, price-wise.


----------



## mbyrnes

HEX are unreal for gaming! Just wow, and this is with the Mixamp since my X7 is down (new Sparkos SS3602 on the way!)

Just setup a ridiculous amount of optical cables, splitter, selector, so I can have everything go to the X7 or Mimby. That's my Blu-ray/SACD player, Xbox One (and cable box), and streaming system. Pretty cool I can listen to all of them now.


----------



## Find the Door

HD800 or HD800S for gaming? Mainly shooters


----------



## SeaWo|f

I would think that HD800 with slightly more air and forward highs would be better for competition and the HD800s with its fuller sound better for an immersive experience. I love my AKG K701s for competitive shooters because the bass is so rolled off and they give a great sense of space. If I was ever to play a campaign mode in a game I would probably go for my HD650 or DT770pro.


----------



## mbyrnes

find the door said:


> HD800 or HD800S for gaming? Mainly shooters


 
  
 Can you listen to any of these before buying? You have a lot of options in that price range. I hated the HD800. It was just not a sound I really liked.


----------



## mbyrnes

The following is from this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-edition-x-over-ear-planar-magnetic-headphones

Comparison of HEX vs HD800:

 It was wholly entertaining to compare these two wonderful headphones. I can fault the HD800 on its cheap looking finish and ear bleeding peaky sound. For my tastes, I’ve found I need to use the Sonarworks plugin to enjoy the HD800’s, along with many other mods such as the Anaxilus mod, internal wiring upgrade and a Norne Audio Draug2 to clean up the sound and make this headphone absolutely spectacular. After all that, the HD800 costs more than a stock HifiMan Edition X. In comparison, the Edition X is very well tuned right out of the box. It’s not quite the same level the HD800 is with portraying a detailed image or wide soundstage. BUT, it’s very close.

 I believe these two headphones both do so many things very well. I would leave it up to you to audition them and try for yourself. If you’re sensitive to treble peaks, the HD800 may need a bit of modding for you to “accept” it. The Edition X would be a great choice if you’re sensitive to sharp peaky treble since it’s quite pleasing to the ear and extremely musical. It doesn’t quite have the speed/decay of the HD800 but its close! The HD800 does some very key things better than the Edition X. I still find myself listening to the Edition X most of the time and letting my pair of HD800 collect dust. I wonder, why is this? Likely the reason is that I simply prefer the Edition X.

note: I am waiting for a Norne Audio Draug 2 cable to be made for my HD800's. I know this cable is quite amazing for the HD800. I've had one for a while to audition and I can't live without that cable and the HD800. In the meantime the HD800 collects more dust until then.


----------



## mbyrnes

mbyrnes said:


> The following is from this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/products/hifiman-edition-x-over-ear-planar-magnetic-headphones
> 
> Comparison of HEX vs HD800:
> 
> ...




I'm obviously biased as I just bought the HEX V2. I find his thoughts on the two, very similar to my impressions (I've never heard a heavily modded HD800). I wasn't even aware the HEX existed before listening to them Sunday at a meet. I was looking for an endgame Headphone, wanted really good bass (TH-X00 Ebony emphasizes how important good bass is), and just a huge soundstage, 3D like. Fell in love with them, and a used deal literally fell in my lap in the meet follow-up thread. Owned them less than 22 hours after first listening to them! 

I will admit I'm not a fan of Sennheiser Sound. After listening to the HD600, HD650, HD6XX, HD800, with balanced cables out of very good gear, they did nothing for me. The HD800 was a good headphone, but everything I've ever read is true. Highs are too much, bright. The soundstage is awe inspiring, but the overall presentation is just not for me. I'm going to directly compare my HD6XX to the HEX today. I have a strong feeling the HD6XX will be the first headphone I sell.


----------



## conflict0102

Cool


----------



## Change is Good

I have two ghost recon beta invites to give out on PS4. Shoot me a pm with your ubisoft id if interested.


----------



## conflict0102

Still have one ?

Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

conflict0102 said:


> Still have one ?
> 
> Thanks


 
  
 Enjoy!
  
 One code left, guys.


----------



## themrmikemcd

change is good said:


> Enjoy!
> 
> One code left, guys.


I have ps4 but no clue what my ubisoft id is. Guess i need to throw in my assassins creed unity to see what it logs me in as..


----------



## Change is Good

Sorry, Tee just got the last invite.


----------



## bigbeard

What are the correct in-game settings to use for virtual surround through my sbz?
  
 I have windows set up for 5.1 and sbx studio on.
  
 In some games, I get the about for 5.1, home theater, and headphones. What setting should I choose?
 Some games also have an additional surround sound option - I supposed for in-game processing? What do I do here?


----------



## Change is Good

Yo Mad, looks like your all-time fav has an upgraded version on the way...
  

  
 https://usa.denon.com/us/product/portableaudio/overear/ahd7200


----------



## rudyae86

change is good said:


> Yo Mad, looks like your all-time fav has an upgraded version on the way...
> 
> 
> 
> https://usa.denon.com/us/product/portableaudio/overear/ahd7200


 
 Whoaaa....


----------



## themrmikemcd

change is good said:


> Sorry, Tee just got the last invite.


No worries. That was cool of you to even offer them out at all.


----------



## 3stun

Wonder if it has ever been confirmed whether SBX Surround for Headphone is identical to THX Trusturio Pro in Titanium X-Fi Creative cards.
 I could not find any direct comparisons on Youtube (THX vs SBX).
 Right now I'm picking a card mainly for Headphone HRTF, to output digital signal to external DAC-amp and eventually to Headphone.
  
 From tests on Youtube I figured I prefer both SBX and THX to CMSS-3D (the latter makes sound too bright and weakens bass).
 Just can't choose between the two.


----------



## ls13coco

3stun said:


> Wonder if it has ever been confirmed whether SBX Surround for Headphone is identical to THX Trusturio Pro in Titanium X-Fi Creative cards.
> I could not find any direct comparisons on Youtube (THX vs SBX).
> Right now I'm picking a card mainly for Headphone HRTF, to output digital signal to external DAC-amp and eventually to Headphone.
> 
> ...


 
 From using Razer Surround, Dolby headphone, SonicStudio and the Phoebus surround.. I do prefer SBX the most. That may change if I ever try the Realiser, though.

 Also, I tend to like using stereo over any virtual surround. I find the same amount of positioning just about, just without the added reverb and such effects.
 Anyone else? I constantly try to use and like surround, but always go back eventually. =\


----------



## mbyrnes

Nice thing with the X7 is the ability to adjust almost everything. The % of surround sound, equalizer to boost or reduce levels if needed, profiles (movies, FPS, music, etc). I have the X7 feeding my Mimby with the surround sound applied, which feeds my MicroZOTL2 amp. Personally I think the included amp is pretty darn good, and I could easily live with it.


----------



## enyawk

Help! I've dropped a lot of money trying to get custom headphones (ATH ad900x) to work with a mixamp pro (gen1). I have an Xbox elite controller that is fully up to date, and I've also updated the firmware on the mixamp pro as well.. I have the mixamp connected to Xbox via optical and USB. I have a 2.5 to 3.5mm adapter plugged into the mixamp as I have a 3.5/3.5mm cable.

I've changed all audio settings on the Xbox accordingly (bitstream out and Dolby, I don't have a Kinect).. My headphones have a mod allowing detachable cable, but that isn't the issue. I cannot get the mic to work whatsoever  I've tried a Y splitter (one labeled for headphone one for microphone) plugged into the mixamp, with the headphones into headphone port and my old turtle beaches into microphone port, which hang around my neck for the mic. I planned to use this setup until until my v-moda boompro mic came in. However, i cannot get the mic to work. I can't even plug only my turtle beaches directly into the mixamp and get chat that way either, not even using the ATH's.. so I'm assuming the boompro mic isn't gonna work either.. very frustrating! Am I missing something?


----------



## Yethal

enyawk said:


> Help! I've dropped a lot of money trying to get custom headphones (ATH ad900x) to work with a mixamp pro (gen1). I have an Xbox elite controller that is fully up to date, and I've also updated the firmware on the mixamp pro as well.. I have the mixamp connected to Xbox via optical and USB. I have a 2.5 to 3.5mm adapter plugged into the mixamp as I have a 3.5/3.5mm cable.
> 
> I've changed all audio settings on the Xbox accordingly (bitstream out and Dolby, I don't have a Kinect).. My headphones have a mod allowing detachable cable, but that isn't the issue. I cannot get the mic to work whatsoever
> 
> ...


 

 Check the connection diagrams in the first post of the thread.


----------



## enyawk

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have it setup exactly as shown in the diagram


----------



## Yethal

enyawk said:


> Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have it setup exactly as shown in the diagram


 

 Can You post a photo of the headphones? Particularly the cable plugs and how You connect them to the Mixamp.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*Xbox Preview* update adds *Native Virtual Headphone surround*
  
 both PC and Xbox
  
 also adds *ATMOS for headphones*


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> *Xbox Preview* update adds *Native Virtual Headphone surround*
> 
> both PC and Xbox
> 
> also adds *ATMOS for headphones*


 

 Soo, we can close this thread off now, can we?


----------



## enyawk

yethal said:


> Can You post a photo of the headphones? Particularly the cable plugs and how You connect them to the Mixamp.




Sure, please see below and hopefully it makes sense. I might have solved the problem as my both ends of my 3.5mm cable only have two rings. I just read elsewhere moments ago that the end that goes to controller must have three rings for mic. I found one I had, but that didn't work either. However the cable with 3 rings seems dagamged so I'm thinking just getting a new 2.5 to 3.5mm (with three rings) cable will solve my problem, unless something else in my setup is wrong? Appreciate your help.


----------



## Yethal

enyawk said:


> Sure, please see below and hopefully it makes sense. I might have solved the problem as my both ends of my 3.5mm cable only have two rings. I just read elsewhere moments ago that the end that goes to controller must have three rings for mic. I found one I had, but that didn't work either. However the cable with 3 rings seems dagamged so I'm thinking just getting a new 2.5 to 3.5mm (with three rings) cable will solve my problem, unless something else in my setup is wrong? Appreciate your help.


 
 If the plug that goes into the controller only has two rings than that is precisely the source of the problem. Turtle beach sells such cables for 5$ IIRC so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Soo, we can close this thread off now, can we?


 

 PS4 owners might still need some help.


----------



## enyawk

yethal said:


> If the plug that goes into the controller only has two rings than that is precisely the source of the problem. Turtle beach sells such cables for 5$ IIRC so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.




Thanks for your quick help. I didn't see that noted in Mad Lust Envy's post, although it was incredibly helpful. I've ordered both the 2.5/3.5 (3-ring tssr) cable and 2.5/3.5mm adapter so hopefully one of these works  I'll revert back regardless. Thanks!


----------



## IceOrror

Are there any alternatives to the Astro Mixamp? The must-have feature is the ability to balance between voice/general audio channels. Nothing available seems to have that, and I don't want to be stuck with my mixamp forever.


----------



## TeeReQs

iceorror said:


> Are there any alternatives to the Astro Mixamp? The must-have feature is the ability to balance between voice/general audio channels. Nothing available seems to have that, and I don't want to be stuck with my mixamp forever.


 
 The X7, of course.


----------



## nicobombai

teereqs said:


> The X7, of course.


----------



## themrmikemcd

A few questions. Is my fio e12 portable amp doing my music any justice when playing quality music from my LG G3 phone and using my 250 ohm dt880s and the creative aurvana live headphones, or should I look to get something better for an amp. I use the amp with my astro mix amp for gaming also and I feel like I'm not really getting the best sound from them. They sound good, but I want make sure I'm not listening to them with an insufficient amp.

Also I'm really starting to wonder if I really have a pair of 250 ohm dt880 as I have been told and read that you need a really good amp to make them sound good or loud, but I feel like my Astro MixAmp powers them just fine and they're very loud on my MixAmp without double amping. So I wonder if I was given a pair of 80 ohm or if i just dont ike the sound profile of these. Double amping the MixAmp and my fio e 12 oftentimes make the bass sound distorted. Someone in an earlier post had suggested I try adjusting the volumes on both amps to see if I could make it sound better but I can't seem to get the right volume loud enough to hear everything but not too loud that it distorts. Should mixamp be able to power these alone? Is there anyway to tell for sure what ohm I have without any facy euipment? Thanks!


----------



## IceOrror

nicobombai said:


>


 
  
 Do you mean the Sound Blaster X7? I don't see a separate dial for voice/sound balance.


----------



## kellte2

iceorror said:


> Do you mean the Sound Blaster X7? I don't see a separate dial for voice/sound balance.




It is software based.


----------



## IceOrror

kellte2 said:


> It is software based.


 
  
 Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. I needed something physical the can work when a game/video is fullscreen. If it's software based then it's no different than me just tabbing out and manually adjusting it.


----------



## TeeReQs

iceorror said:


> Do you mean the Sound Blaster X7? I don't see a separate dial for voice/sound balance.


 
 There isn't a dial on the device, but you can adjust all inputs/outputs from the app.
  
 There's a smartphone app that you can download and change all the settings. That way you can do it mid game without having to alt tab out. Also works well when using on console. My only gripe is that I haven't found a way for the X7 to automatically reconnect to my phone.


----------



## Yethal

teereqs said:


> There isn't a dial on the device, but you can adjust all inputs/outputs from the app.
> 
> There's a smartphone app that you can download and change all the settings. That way you can do it mid game without having to alt tab out. Also works well when using on console. My only gripe is that I haven't found a way for the X7 to automatically reconnect to my phone.


 

 That's weird, my X7 reconnects to the BT-W2 transmitter automatically every time i turn my PS4 on. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work the same with smartphones.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Been absent from this thread for a while. Just got me a pair of HD 600s and have no one to share it with that cares (not that you guys necessarily care, but at least you'll get it more than non-audio gear nuts like my family/friends). Also came to share something that slightly annoyed me.
  
 I bought a Cloud 2 headset last year and while I was generally pretty impressed (considering the price), there was always something not quite right with them. When I was testing them I kept having a muscle (tensor tympani) spasm in my right ear which lead to some irritation. At the time I just put it down to excessive use of headphones and thought that my perception was being slightly thrown off, but it has since become apparent that the Cloud 2 I have has a channel imbalance. In hindsight this is possibly partially responsible for the ear spasms I was having at the time, though I still get them under certain circumstances. For example my work colleague's speaking voice seems to stike a particular frequency that causes it to happen. The other thing that causes it is when I'm listening to something and it abruptly stops or momentary sounds with a wide dynamic range (I have to turn down some tracks that have super punchy percussion even though I don't listen particularly loud in the first place). Anyway, back to what I was saying. Unfortunately I'm now outside of the warranty period, so I essentially have a useless headset (now I've noticed this channel imbalance it has I can't listen to them anymore because it drives me mad).
  
 It's really interesting to finally have this point of reference (HD 600s) in my (small) collection. It is also really interesting to compare them to my AKG 240 Mkiis as they deliver music in completely different ways. I've not done any gaming with the HD 600s yet, but that is the next test for them. I must say that I'm surprised by something though. Despite the AKGs being semi-closed, the sounstage is much, much wider than the HD600s. The HD600s are more pleasant musically and is more flattering with poor/mediocre recordings whereas the AKGs are brutally honest (I guess that's why they are so popular for mixing). I personally find the HD 600's bass a lot more satisfying and the dynamics seem better. I find bass in real life situations seems to almost surround you and the HD 600s delivers that sensation really well. The AKGs can sound a bit... aloof I guess is the best way to put it (when it comes to bass). The AKGs are absolutely sublime when it comes to vocals though. The clarity and detail is amazing, yet somehow they manage to do it without ever sounding harsh. I love both pairs of headphones for different reasons.
  
 I also have a Little Dot Mkiii on the way. Looking forward to that. I now understand how people end up spending so much money on this hobby. I don't really have the money but there are several pairs of headphones I really want to try, not to mentions amps, DACs etc. MUST... RESIST!


----------



## themrmikemcd

napalmhardcore said:


> Been absent from this thread for a while. Just got me a pair of HD 600s and have no one to share it with that cares (not that you guys necessarily care, but at least you'll get it more than non-audio gear nuts like my family/friends). Also came to share something that slightly annoyed me.
> 
> I bought a Cloud 2 headset last year and while I was generally pretty impressed (considering the price), there was always something not quite right with them. When I was testing them I kept having a muscle (tensor tympani) spasm in my right ear which lead to some irritation. At the time I just put it down to excessive use of headphones and thought that my perception was being slightly thrown off, but it has since become apparent that the Cloud 2 I have has a channel imbalance. In hindsight this is possibly partially responsible for the ear spasms I was having at the time, though I still get them under certain circumstances. For example my work colleague's speaking voice seems to stike a particular frequency that causes it to happen. The other thing that causes it is when I'm listening to something and it abruptly stops or momentary sounds with a wide dynamic range (I have to turn down some tracks that have super punchy percussion even though I don't listen particularly loud in the first place). Anyway, back to what I was saying. Unfortunately I'm now outside of the warranty period, so I essentially have a useless headset (now I've noticed this channel imbalance it has I can't listen to them anymore because it drives me mad).
> 
> ...


I've heard really good things about the 600s. I have heard they are AMAZING for music but not the best for gaming. 

Until i learned more about headphones the cloud x2 were my favorite "headset" ever. They are still really good headphones. Its a shame you got a broken pair  I got mine for a steal at $70 on Amazon because they were selling the pink version at a discount sometime back. I dot care what color they are and I gladly paid $30 less!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

themrmikemcd said:


> I've heard really good things about the 600s. I have heard they are AMAZING for music but not the best for gaming.
> 
> Until i learned more about headphones the cloud x2 were my favorite "headset" ever. They are still really good headphones. Its a shame you got a broken pair  I got mine for a steal at $70 on Amazon because they were selling the pink version at a discount sometime back. I dot care what color they are and I gladly paid $30 less!


 
  
 I'm absolutely loving my HD600s so far. They are easily the most pleasant headphones I've ever listened too. I totally understand why they are so widely loved.
  
 I gave my impressions of the Cloud 2 earlier in the thread. For the price, they are amazingly good value (provided you have one without issues) and perfectly suited for gaming. One slight criticism I had with it regarding music was that there can be just a touch of sibilance and vocals can have a slightly hard sound to them, but that same quality actually lends itself really well to gaming as it makes directional cues easier to hear and pinpoint.
  
 I'm now toying with ideas for a replacement headset. I do own a Modmic, but I'm not that big a fan. I don't like having two wires to deal with as it looks messy and is one extra cable to get snagged/tangled. I used braided cable wrap when I had it attached to my AKGs but it made them look ugly. I was also considering looking for a set of headphones that is compatible with the Boompro, but I've read that it can rotate it the socket because there's nothing to lock it in position. I could see that being really annoying. I think I'm going to go with a dedicated headset.
  
 At the moment, the Game Ones (50 Ohm version) are at the top of my list. Apparently they are very similar to the HD 598s which is a headphone I am interested in anyway. The only thing I'm not 100% sure about is whether I want to go for an open or closed back headset. Most of the time, an open back is perfect for my situation, but with my Clouds no longer in the picture I don't currently own anything closed back. Apparently the Game Zeros are a bit bass light and not as good an all-rounder as the Game Ones, so for a closed back headset I'd be looking elsewhere. The most widely praised closed back heaset still seems to be the Cloud 2, but I've been there and done that, so I'd really like to try something else. The Sony MDR-1A is on my radar as it has an inline mic. Just not sure what the mic quality is like (not that it has to be amazing). I'm not hugely competitive so I'd rather sacrifice the ability to pinpoint in-game cues for the sake of something more enjoyable and versatile (music/movies).


----------



## dakanao

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm absolutely loving my HD600s so far. They are easily the most pleasant headphones I've ever listened too. I totally understand why they are so widely loved.
> 
> I gave my impressions of the Cloud 2 earlier in the thread. For the price, they are amazingly good value (provided you have one without issues) and perfectly suited for gaming. One slight criticism I had with it regarding music was that there can be just a touch of sibilance and vocals can have a slightly hard sound to them, but that same quality actually lends itself really well to gaming as it makes directional cues easier to hear and pinpoint.
> 
> ...


 
 Do you find the HD 600 a bit harsh in the uppermids? Also, how does the HD 600 fare for gaming in your experience?


----------



## themrmikemcd

napalmhardcore said:


> I'm absolutely loving my HD600s so far. They are easily the most pleasant headphones I've ever listened too. I totally understand why they are so widely loved.
> 
> I gave my impressions of the Cloud 2 earlier in the thread. For the price, they are amazingly good value (provided you have one without issues) and perfectly suited for gaming. One slight criticism I had with it regarding music was that there can be just a touch of sibilance and vocals can have a slightly hard sound to them, but that same quality actually lends itself really well to gaming as it makes directional cues easier to hear and pinpoint.
> 
> ...


 I used the 598s and to me the bass is almost non existant. I didnt like them for my gaming needs. I found the phillips 9500 to sound better, they are also bass light, but I feel they have great soundstage and are way cheaper. I found the superlux 668 with pad mods to be shp9500 like with a tad more bass. I only play for emersive sound in games as I also do not game online. I would love to hear music with the Hd600s!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

dakanao said:


> Do you find the HD 600 a bit harsh in the uppermids? Also, how does the HD 600 fare for gaming in your experience?


 

 In the first few minutes I was a tad concerned about the upper mids being a tad harsh, but with continued listening that concern went away. In my limited experience, the sound of a headphone changes dramatically in the first 20 minutes. I know breaking in headphones can be a controversial topic, but I had the same experience with both the Cloud 2 and the HD 600s where initially the mids sounded hard for about 20 minutes. Just to be clear, I don't mean each time I put them on. I mean that straight out of the box they both had a very hard sound in the mids, but after around 20 minutes they softened and warmed up (to a greater extent with the HD 600s). The HD 600s sound tremendously well balanced across the frequency range to my ears. In comparison, the AKG K240 Mkiis sound pretty lean in the bass.
  
 I've not had a chance to put the HD600s to the test in games yet. I am expecting them to perform pretty well though. I've heard people say that some AKGs have an almost artificially wide soundstage and I think I know what they are talking about. When a sound is panned hard left or right on the 240 Mkiis, it actually sounds like it is coming from slightly behind me whereas hard panned sounds on the HD 600s sound like they are coming in from 90 degrees. I can occasionally misplace cues with the AKGs because of this. I'm expecting the HD600s to be pretty accurate, but perhaps less spacious sounding. I'll report back when I've had a few hours in-game


----------



## Evshrug

Back from CanJam NYC! I'll write impressions coverage and share a link with you guys so I don't fill the thread too much, but there are some VERY INTERESTING things on the horizon for us gamers!




iceorror said:


> Do you mean the Sound Blaster X7? I don't see a separate dial for voice/sound balance.



Well, I'd HIGHLY recommend reading an X7 review to see how you connect chat to a console. Way tidier and simpler on a PS4 by the way, the XBOne is a bit "you can have any choice you want, so long as you want the one choice we made". But after you're hooked up, you simply use a smartphone app and the Mixer panel to remix the volume balance of game and chat. The latter will be labeled Bluetooth or Line-in, depending on how you set it up.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> That's weird, my X7 reconnects to the BT-W2 transmitter automatically every time i turn my PS4 on. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work the same with smartphones.




The X7 "seeks out" the BT-W2 and automatically connects if it finds one it paired to before, but unlike Creative's portable DAC/Amps, the X7 doesn't seek my iPhone and I suspect anything of the phone/tablet variety.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> That's weird, my X7 reconnects to the BT-W2 transmitter automatically every time i turn my PS4 on. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work the same with smartphones.


 
  
  


evshrug said:


> The X7 "seeks out" the BT-W2 and automatically connects if it finds one it paired to before, but unlike Creative's portable DAC/Amps, the X7 doesn't seek my iPhone and I suspect anything of the phone/tablet variety.


 
  
 This is what I've noticed. My BT-W2 will connect automatically if plugged in, but if I want to connect my phone directly to the X7 itself, I have to unplug the BT-W2 and hold the power button until it starts searching for bluetooth devices. I noticed when I have the BT-W2 plugged in I can't get my phone to connect and play audio through the X7, so I just keep it unplugged unless I want to use my PS4.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Back from CanJam NYC! I'll write impressions coverage and share a link with you guys so I don't fill the thread too much, but there are some VERY INTERESTING things on the horizon for us gamers!


 
 Smyth Research dropped the price of the A16 to a reasonable levels?


teereqs said:


> This is what I've noticed. My BT-W2 will connect automatically if plugged in, but if I want to connect my phone directly to the X7 itself, I have to unplug the BT-W2 and hold the power button until it starts searching for bluetooth devices. I noticed when I have the BT-W2 plugged in I can't get my phone to connect and play audio through the X7, so I just keep it unplugged unless I want to use my PS4.


 

 X7 can be paired to two devices however they can't both be connected at the same time.  If You want to stop the BT-W2 from being constantly connected to the X7, disable supplying power to USB ports in PS4 power saving settings.


----------



## TeeReQs

yethal said:


> Smyth Research dropped the price of the A16 to a reasonable levels?
> 
> X7 can be paired to two devices however they can't both be connected at the same time.  If You want to stop the BT-W2 from being constantly connected to the X7, disable supplying power to USB ports in PS4 power saving settings.


 
 Good call! I'll try that tonight then. I don't use chat that often on PS4, so that should work well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Shoot already Evshrug!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

fegefeuer said:


> Shoot already Evshrug!


 

 That's what she said.


----------



## Zyker

I just found my birthday present from last year... I had forgotten that someone gave me these.  Well, at least my 2 year old daughter loves them!
  
 On a more serious note, I got my 400i hooked up to my X7 last night and they sound _superb_.  My only gripe is that short cable... I had to order a longer one off ebay.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> I just found my birthday present from last year... I had forgotten that someone gave me these.  Well, at least my 2 year old daughter loves them!
> 
> On a more serious note, I got my 400i hooked up to my X7 last night and they sound _superb_.  My only gripe is that short cable... I had to order a longer one off ebay.



I'd wear those.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> I'd wear those.


 
 Oh, trust me, I have.  I'm going to shock you when I say, they're not super good (but better than I was expecting)... but my daughter always wants to wear "daddy's headphones" and these have been a lifesaver.  My poor a900x has enough dents in its outer shell, don't want to add actual death to them, too... at least, not until my Aeons come.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> Oh, trust me, I have.  I'm going to shock you when I say, they're not super good (but better than I was expecting)... but my daughter always wants to wear "daddy's headphones" and these have been a lifesaver.  My poor a900x has enough dents in its outer shell, don't want to add actual death to them, too... at least, not until my Aeons come.


 

 Now that You've mentioned it there are no audiophile headphones on the market specifically marketed towards children. Imagine if Grado made a pink "My First On-Ear" set with a matching My Little Pony hard case.


----------



## Zyker

yethal said:


> Now that You've mentioned it there are no audiophile headphones on the market specifically marketed towards children. Imagine if Grado made a pink "My First On-Ear" set with a matching My Little Pony hard case.


 
 They'd have top be built like _tanks_ or be easily reparable (or cheap enough to be replaceable) because I'm sure children would just annihilate them... that being said, I'd probably get my girl a pair. Start her down the right path early.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Back for another bit of guidance if possible.  Currently using some Plyr1's which have surprised me at how decent they are - especially when I only paid £44 here in the UK for a brand new set.
  
 Thing is, I still like the clarity and overall sound of my Superlux HD681 Evo better, but the adaptor needed to use the VModa Boom Mic with them isn't an ideal solution.
  
 I game purely on PS4 at the moment and really am looking for an Open Backed set of headphones that the VModa Mic will fit and which will offer a step up in sound from the Superlux.  I plan to add some form of DAC/Amp in the future also.
  
 Any suggestions or will I have to sacrifice the VModa to get what I want?
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Yethal

zyker said:


> They'd have top be built like _tanks_ or be easily reparable (or cheap enough to be replaceable) because I'm sure children would just annihilate them... that being said, I'd probably get my girl a pair. Start her down the right path early.


 

 They could be built like Beyerdynamic headphones (all screws, no glue) and the replacement parts would be the actual source of the profit for the company. They could be paired up with a companion amp/dac called _My First Audio Setup_.
  


whitehartmart said:


> Back for another bit of guidance if possible.  Currently using some Plyr1's which have surprised me at how decent they are - especially when I only paid £44 here in the UK for a brand new set.
> 
> Thing is, I still like the clarity and overall sound of my Superlux HD681 Evo better, but the adaptor needed to use the VModa Boom Mic with them isn't an ideal solution.
> 
> ...


 

 Try Fidelio X1/X2.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

change is good said:


> Yo Mad, looks like your all-time fav has an upgraded version on the way...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I question their validity, as I thought they stopped using Fostex drivers? If so, these won't be anything like the Fostex family Denons.

In any case, I still need to hear all the newer Fostex headphones that I missed since the TH900-600, to see if the Massdrop ones come closer to the D7000 sound for cheaper. The TH600 was a bit sterile, and the 900 is way too expensive and still made me miss the fun of the D7K.

I really would need to find some pads that work for the Fostex that isn't pleather/leather. Guess I can rip off the Audeze vegans from my HE400 and give it a go. Of course, thats assuming i ever get a chance to hear another Fostex. Headphones are so far away from a priority right now, and if I get anything it's gonna be wireless. But I would love some D7K sound again.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Thanks @Yethal - how would the Sennheiser Game One compare to the X2 - thinking maybe an all in one solution might be an option?


----------



## Yethal

whitehartmart said:


> Thanks @Yethal - how would the Sennheiser Game One compare to the X2 - thinking maybe an all in one solution might be an option?


 

 Dunno, haven't heard the X2. You asked for a BoomPro compatible open-back so I gave You one. As for the Game one, I do own the PC37X which is a Massdrop variant of a variant of the Game One (long story) and for its price (120$) it is an amazing headset. However the regular Game One sells for 200$ and that's a bit steep so my best advice would be to find the Game One for 120$ or less and if that's not doable then buy a regular open-back and pair it with the BoomPro.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> I question their validity, as I thought they stopped using Fostex drivers? If so, these won't be anything like the Fostex family Denons.
> 
> In any case, I still need to hear all the newer Fostex headphones that I missed since the TH900-600, to see if the Massdrop ones come closer to the D7000 sound for cheaper. The TH600 was a bit sterile, and the 900 is way too expensive and still made me miss the fun of the D7K.
> 
> I really would need to find some pads that work for the Fostex that isn't pleather/leather. Guess I can rip off the Audeze vegans from my HE400 and give it a go. Of course, thats assuming i ever get a chance to hear another Fostex. Headphones are so far away from a priority right now, and if I get anything it's gonna be wireless. But I would love some D7K sound again.


 
  
 It's most likely Fostex again. Fostex is THE japanese OEM monster everyone should fear instead of Godzilla. I don't think they are for you. Your favorite D7000 successor would be a D7000 repackaged with non-leather pads and the same sound I guess, just cleaner with less peaks.
  
 These here are noticably cleaner than the D7000 and don't have the TH-900 peaks either, don't have the boom, bleed or midbass pronunciatione of the TH-X00. They are more "reference" tuned (less recessed mids than the Fostex) and go down very low where they still pack a punch. 
  
 That scene at the end/climax from The Accountant where it gets pretty loud for a short while really terrified me even though I knew what would happen. The rumble and kick down low is great. Can't say more, waiting for balanced cables and need to hear more.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

yethal said:


> Dunno, haven't heard the X2. You asked for a BoomPro compatible open-back so I gave You one. As for the Game one, I do own the PC37X which is a Massdrop variant of a variant of the Game One (long story) and for its price (120$) it is an amazing headset. However the regular Game One sells for 200$ and that's a bit steep so my best advice would be to find the Game One for 120$ or less and if that's not doable then buy a regular open-back and pair it with the BoomPro.


 
  
 Ok, thanks - yea appreciate the X2 was the suggestion to my first question then I went off in a different direction 
  
 Game One is about £50 cheaper here in the UK (about £150) - not seen it any cheaper - X2s pushing £200 or over.


----------



## Turpow

Nothing wrong with the Sennheisers. Great clarity, light weight and usefull all in one. Little in the way of any bass and the mic always sounded a bit muffled to me but some people say it sounds crisp and clear *shrug*
  
 I find the X2s a lot more enjoyable to listen to, though I do find it a lot more uncomfortable for me personally.
  
 Both great in different ways ^^


----------



## enyawk

yethal said:


> If the plug that goes into the controller only has two rings than that is precisely the source of the problem. Turtle beach sells such cables for 5$ IIRC so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.




Hi, I managed to get it working with the 3-ring cable into controller. V-moda boompro works great too. Others in chat complain of an echo, which I can't hear so I can only assume it's me. I'll figure that out, just glad it's working  thanks again!!


----------



## TeeReQs

For Honor Open Beta starts today FYI


----------



## rudyae86

teereqs said:


> For Honor Open Beta starts today FYI


 
 Played it for a bit....so far it's fun but I don't know if it will get very repetitive after 2 hours though...
  
 I didn't really read up on it a while ago when it was announced but having only up to 4v4 seems a bit boring, wish it could have more players.
  
 It's a good game to mess around with friends though, as I can see why it was only meant to be up to 4v4.


----------



## Change is Good

rudyae86 said:


> Played it for a bit....so far it's fun but I don't know if it will get very repetitive after 2 hours though...
> 
> I didn't really read up on it a while ago when it was announced but having only up to 4v4 seems a bit boring, wish it could have more players.
> 
> It's a good game to mess around with friends though, as I can see why it was only meant to be up to 4v4.


 
  
 It's using similar generic shooter multiplayer formulas and modes, just with sword fighting. Tell me one pvp shooter that doesn't get repetitive besides the old Battlefields lol. Not necessarily a bad thing. Fun to pick up and play a couple matches with friends as you said.
  
 I'm buying it so whatever spare time I get, this weekend, will be used to play Nioh.


----------



## TeeReQs

Only played one match so far, but I could see it being entertaining. I need to put some more time in, but I'm definitely more of shooter fan. Was not at all impressed with Ghost Recon Wild lands though. Nioh looks good! So many games.


----------



## Evshrug

*CanJam NYC 2017: Gamer's Edition*

To warm up for my full coverage for the first CanJam in NYC, let's focus on the gaming relative products and news. If I missed a manufacturer or don't say much, it's because the show was VERY well attended, and sometimes I get wrapped up and stay awhile at a place. Also, there are some things I DO want to talk about, like ZMF's new Atticus and Eikon models which I spent a fair amount of time on, but I don't think they're particularly gaming-suited so I won't talk about them here.


 ​
*
Headphones*
In the area of headphone drivers, things that were newest to me were usually in the closed-back and IEM categories.

*Audeze*
 ​'Aw-dez-ee' is traditionally known for their summit-fi planar headphones, but they're pushing down into the hi-fi price range with their EL-8 and Sine models... I read that the open EL-8 is a little more even in the frequency response than the closed model and I'd like a little more time with both, but most interesting to gaming is Audeze's iSine VR IEMs and their Tetrahedral Planar Magnetic microphone. If you haven't heard of the iSine yet, they're planar magnetic open-backed IEMs (unique!) that look like you put Tie-Fighter wings onto your ears (hella unique!), but due to CEO Sankar Thiagasamudram's interest in VR they also make a special version with short cables to connect directly to a Vive or Occulus VR headset. No word yet on PS VR compatibility, but I presume you would just get a $399 iSine10 and just plug that into the in-line sound pod on the Sony HMD's cable. They even had an awesome Vive and iSine VR setup at the show where you watched a video on-rails and saw a cool futuristic robot thing, and I have to say I much preferred the clip-less iSine VR to fiddling for a few seconds with the iSine10's clips that holds them against your ear. The detail was astounding, and the imaging worked very well with the VR DSP, the bass is surprising and extends super low, and it's great that they're lightweight but be sure to use the right size eartips. Its also just cool seeing a headphone mfr interested in surround sound and gaming!

*Empire Ears*
​At my last CanJam, I was SUPER SUPER impressed with 64 Audio's ADEL equipped IEMs, and now Empire Ears is using the technology. ADEL modules were created to alleviate the pressure of sound waves, but sonically I have been impressed with the soundstage benefits of the technology that really pairs well with the inherently laser-focused imaging of IEMs and superior sound isolation. Gamers would also love the customization aspect of IEMs too, showing team colors and/or logos, or simply personal style. I heard the top-of-the-line Zeus, which was crazy expensive but crazy articulate and awesome, but even the much more affordable Spartan 4-driver model was articulate and exciting. I didn't have the time to hear it, but the 3-way $749 Cerberus with ADEL was within my budget, and the website description says it has deep, clean, textured bass, a touch of mid emphasis, and smooth relaxed treble, great for hearing footsteps and fun explosions and ambiance without masking tactical details and not be irritated by fatiguing high-pitched sounds like flashbangs. I spent the most time with the Spartan... these are super sensitive headphones, I found a little background hiss that was easy to ignore with audio playing while using the Chord Mojo as my DAC/amp, but surprisingly the background was quieter and it was easier to relax and enjoy the sound plugged straight into my iPhone 6S. I love my Chord Mojo and I'm sure there was some ultimate detail, naturalness, and soundstage depth I was missing out on by just using my phone, but just like Vinyl vs Digital I prefer the black background. It could be considered a benefit where I don't feel like I'm not missing out on much even just using a simple phone + IEM setup compared to my much less portable Mojo + Liquid Carbon + HD800 setup I have at home.

Don't forget other IEM makers, some who attended the show but I didn't get time to talk to were 64 Audio and Noble, which also do customs, and Echobox, Atomic Floyd, and 1More which have been making splashes in reviews of their recently released flagships. A good IEM will go toe to toe with a hi-fi or summit-fi over ear headphone for detail and imaging, the balanced armatures used in these perform with quick transients and low distortion like electrostatic headphones, and theoretically they can perform VERY accurately with virtual surround because they skip the effect the outer ear (pinnae).
 
 
​

*Stax*
Stax didn't officially have any reps at the show, BUT I did get to hear the Omegas 007 and 009 on the Blue Hawaii amp, long considered one of the all-time best setups in personal audio (and still giving the Shangri-La and Orpheus a run for their money), and it was fantastic but priced beyond what most gamers could attain. What WILL be interesting is Stax's newer SR-L300 Lambda earspeaker, which was in the Smyth "exhibit" room. More on Smyth later. Even though the L300 is the entry-level earspeaker, I heard it recreate astounding frequency response, and was incredibly transparent to the music. These also are much more comfortable than earlier Lambdas, still lightweight but the pads have seen a substantial upgrade in feel and plushness. I watched a Dolby Atmos demo and a clip from the recent Mad Max video, and the L300 did a fantastic job rendering everything from the distant motors roaring and whining, sand swooshing about, and Max's gravelly sonorous voice. I can't speak too much to the L300's native frequency tuning (because the Smyth, LATERRR I PROMISE!) but it had no difficulty with any sound we threw at it (thing reached low and powerful!) and I could easily see it being the primary driver in a gamer's setup. The only time you could have a problem is if you're the type of person that listens REALLY loud... we played it at what felt loud for me and I never heard this happen, but the Smyth guys say that sometimes the membrane will move so much that it can hit the magnet grill.The Stax earspeakers have a different kind of plug and require speaker-like amplification power, but the SRS-3100 kit includes both a headset and amplifier for $749, and it's achievements in sound quality belong in comparisons to summit-fi headphones like the HD800 and HE 1000... seriously! In the hi-fi $300-$1000 price category, you usually need a good amp to coax out the better performance of the headphone anyway, so $750 for the kit is very reasonable. I find the HD800 more comfortable to wear for 5+ hour marathon sessions, but sonically the L300 is right up there and has amazing reaction speed and transparency to the source.

*MrSpeakers*
ÆON. I saw this closed headphone everywhere. And it has me reconsidering my closed headphone plans. Dan from MrSpeakers put all his learning and latest technology into this model, and yet priced it competitively close to materials and labor cost. The modified teardrop shape (or half heart shaped? For Valentines Day?) looks less enormous in public and nestles nicely around the neck, making perhaps one of the best sounding closed headphones you can wear on the go, in public. I totally heard what Stillhart wrote about in his ÆON review on AudioHead, and I feel you get a ton of that Ether C Flow goodness for $1000 off. I don't know how I forgot to take a picture of the ÆON, but I do have a pic of the desirable (but more expensive) Ether Flow.
 ​
*
Bluetooth, DSPs, and Doo-Dads*
There were a fair share of interesting accessories meant to enhance the way we listen to audio. I find accessories to show the most innovation and glimpses of the future of audio.

*Shanling Audio*
Ok, so, not traditionally gaming-focused, but their mini-sized M1 portable audio player has a special extra feature that may interest some gamers. As a DAP, the M1 has a decent interface, supports DSD, can be used as a DAC/AMP when connected to a PC using a USB-C cable (USB-C to USB-A cable included), and sounds pretty good with portable headphones that don't require too much power. It also can connect to Bluetooth headphones/speakers, using the latest APT-X protocols. What's intriguing about it is it also can connect to a Bluetooth source, like an iPhone 7, or a Bluetooth USB dongle connected to a PlayStation 4 or PC. If you don't need chat, the $149 ShanLing M1 can be a wireless Bluetooth bridge for IEMs and portables, while also serving as a standalone DAP on the go or a tiny music transport to feed a Mojo or something with lossless DSD files. Can Anyone say "baby Poly?"
​
*BlueWave*
This scrappy 2 man company from French Canada is also looking to make a Bluetooth bridge between your traditional 3.5mm headphones and digital sources. Again, you would need a decent Bluetooth USB dongle to transmit from your PlayStation 4, but then this "half-pen-plus-a-Bic-lighter" looking receiver can clip to your lapel and act as a microphone while sending the audio to your 3.5mm-equipped headphones. It's modest in size and thus amplification power, but the amp is designed without capacitors and has a very short, direct circuit between the DAC and headphone jack, and sounded great powering a pair of purpleheart Massdrop x Fostex TH-X00 closed headphones they had on display. Decent impact, very clean and background hiss free, and had plenty of life and meat to the sound compared to the dull anemic sound I've heard from headphones if they were underpowered. They're perfecting their volume dial (which is the part that makes me think of a Bic lighter). I said it would be fine if they just connected the wheel to a digital volume control, but they said they really wanted the feel of a well-dampened analog control, so ALRIGHT you crazy bastards  
This indegogo campaign pre-order sounds good which is an important foundation.
 ​

*THX*
bwuuuuuuoooooOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!
Famous for their sound design in Star Wars and many movies since, and also a collaborator with Creative Labs on their Recon3D USB processor unit which I highly liked, THX decided to make their show presence known with an unassuming, small, engineer's test-bench looking amplifier. Why am I bothering mentioning it for gamers? One: it has incredibly low distortion levels and has amazing crispness. It sounds really good, eerily similar in character Questyle's big desktop amps. Two: even their top of the line AAA-888 topology is really, really small for the amount of power output. In my picture below, the essential "amp" part of that circuit is just the stuff inside the white box with the label "AAA-888 MODULE," and that's their biggest module. And they're licensing the design to anyone... DAP manufacturers, Bluetooth headphone and transmitter manufacturers, possibly even headphone manufacturers that want to integrate an amp soldered directly to the transducer magnets inside the headphone like the $55,000 Sennheiser Orpheus did... Fuhgeddabout it! As cool as that last possibility would be, I would love to see another collaboration with Creative Labs or anyone else to make a DSP product about the size of a Turtle Beach DSS but with desktop-quality sound to it, and that seems like a very real possibility in the near future.
​

*Smyth Research*
Oh man guys. OH. MAN. Definitely my meet highlight! So, I had been saying how in theory the Realiser should be the culmination of this thread, that the way this portrays directional cues customized to your head and brain should be better than anything else... and the reality is, this blew away my expectations. I'll make a YouTube video on the how (had a nice interview with the Smyth guys, _might_ be able to grab them on the phone sometime or something too), but for now I'll just give the high-level version. Unlike most other surround DSPs, the Smyth does three things:
1. Records and measures what any position or pitch sounds like by the time it reaches the opening of YOUR ear.
2. Records and measures what any pitch from YOUR headphone sounds like by the time it reaches the opening of YOUR ear.
3. Measures your head's angle as you turn vertically or horizontally.
If you measure everything and have transparent enough headphones, it doesn't just process good front and rear cues... it recreates the EXACT sonic experience of the speakers and room you did the measurements in. Yes, in all caps!
During the demo, they had the speakers set up to start playing the moment I angled the headphones down enough to have them off my ears, and there was no gap between the moment I was hearing the headphones and speakers. This created an eerie sensation where I had to ask the Smyths and my buddy MTMECraig when they stopped hearing the speakers after I put the Sfax SR-L300 back on, because I could not tell when it crossed over. Forget about a headphone's (small) peaks and sucked out regions; the Realiser's EQ was go into make that frequency curve sound just like the speakers tested.
Directionality was summit too. There wasn't any live gaming sessions available (missed op!), and the pre-recorded demo of some Star Wars Battlefront gameplay wasn't the best demo of imaging because all the action was in front, the Smyth's steered me towards a Mad Max video clip that was not unlike an arcade-y racing game. Cars blasted up from behind (Doppler effect in the recording sounding very real), roamed out front in the distance (before exploding and rolling), and created an "out of the head" experience with a large soundstage that was unique to this DSP.
I know this product is expensive, but I would LOVE to take a measurement of one über speaker inside an anechoic chamber (good job spelling that Siri!) at all 16 Ambisonics positions (which would be easier to do than it sounds, so long as I could get ahold of the speaker) so that the walls and room acoustics would disappear. I'm thankful that I got in on the kickstarter price for this, but hopefully others get to experience this too, and maybe other equipment manufacturers choose to take up the small licensing fee Smyth is offering to use their DSP software (and maybe a small handful of generic PRIR archetypes?) in a smaller scale product more accessible to younger gamers' budgets, because this is a must-hear experience.
  ​_Soooo many style points for me with that Stax picture, haha!_​

*Seminar on VR*
To Be Added... it's late guys!!


 ​Some of the overall cool trends from the show, seemed to be that this was a year of manufacturers listening to customer's desires. Yeah, there's the über high priced summit-fi products, but finally I was seeming some excellent entries in the $300-$1000 price range that previously had only a few models, including some that were hard to justify at their asking price. The closed-back ÆON from MrSpeakers is $1000 less expensive than the (previously reviewed in the first post of this thread) Ether C on launch and their current C Flow model, and feels like a high-fi model and well worth the $799 asking price, but there were also very impressive IEM models from 64 Audio, Empire Ears, 1More, Echobox, and more that also put out a lot of performance for people looking to outperform the mid-fi, $100-$300 price tier without jumping straight to the +$1000 summit-fi tier. It was also warm-and-fuzzy seeing headphone companies make sure that they shared headphones for use at amp/DAC manufacturer's tables, vice versa, and cables and amp makers creating products to be sold in collaboration with other manufacturers. Sure, there was competition, but unlike politics I personally witnessed everyone talking about what made their products great or unique without bashing another company, and recommending other synergistic products if there wasn't a conflict of interest (So many Mojos, ÆONs, Comply Tips, and third party cables around the floor!). Very much like New York City, the place was simply packed with people, enthusiasm, and expensive but affordable really good stuff.


----------



## mbyrnes

Great write up as always! I really need to learn a lot more about the Smyth A16. They are still offering a discounted pre-order price. Hopefully I can jump in very soon, as honestly that is really the only way I can improve my setup. With how much I game and watch movies, this is almost a must have product. I'm just confused on so much. I've been reading through the thread here, so hopefully the questions I have get answered. 

Now I'm pissed I didn't go up to CanJam. If I'd known the A16 was going to be there, I would have went just for that. If something comes up along the East Coast, I'm going!

Let me collect my thoughts on the A16, and I'll ask some questions here. Could really help others decide if the $1695 preorder price is worth it.


----------



## AxelCloris

mbyrnes said:


> Now I'm pissed I didn't go up to CanJam. If I'd known the A16 was going to be there, I would have went just for that. If something comes up along the East Coast, I'm going!


 
  
 Someone didn't watch the preview video or read through the CanJam NYC thread.  You should do that next time, the videos especially. I think they rock, but I'm highly biased. Smyth themselves also sent out multiple emails confirming that the A16 demo would be at the show.


----------



## rockytopwiz

Thanks for sharing!! Got me excited for the future, while my main want from it all is from the past. Staxx


----------



## mbyrnes

axelcloris said:


> Someone didn't watch the preview video or read through the CanJam NYC thread.  You should do that next time, the videos especially. I think they rock, but I'm highly biased. Smyth themselves also sent out multiple emails confirming that the A16 demo would be at the show.




I was REALLY late to the A16 party, like less than two weeks ago, lol. I've also been reading a ton of long threads and trying to get caught up. While I have been reading the A16 thread, I'm still in the section from months ago. Not the end of the world, I'll either listen to it or buy it blindly. 90% of my headphone usage is surround sound. The A16 is truly alone and unique. Nothing offers what it does (I believe, may be wrong). My home theater days are numbered, so I'm shifting from years of HT to headphones. The A16 really appears to be a fabulous replacement for me.


----------



## TeeReQs

Good stuff Ev! Thanks.
  
 Massdrop is doing another drop of the TH-X00 Ebonies. I really want to get a pair, but not exactly the best timing for my wallet  Mr. Speakers Aeon seems like it would be a good choice too for only $200 more at the pre order price.


----------



## Evshrug

mbyrnes said:


> I was REALLY late to the A16 party, like less than two weeks ago, lol. I've also been reading a ton of long threads and trying to get caught up. While I have been reading the A16 thread, I'm still in the section from months ago. Not the end of the world, I'll either listen to it or buy it blindly. 90% of my headphone usage is surround sound. The A16 is truly alone and unique. Nothing offers what it does (I believe, may be wrong). My home theater days are numbered, so I'm shifting from years of HT to headphones. The A16 really appears to be a fabulous replacement for me.



Friend of mine told me once, "Don't get too excited about the sale price, because you'll probably make more money next year and be able to better afford even a full-priced A16." Reasoned, sound advice. That I didn't follow. I'm applying for jobs, but there's no guarantee I can see that I'll be finding a new job (casually hunting since last year) or that it'll pay better than my $31k. $1k is pretty stiff, but I otherwise have kept a tight belt and now comes the tax refund.

So ask yourself, have you wanted it for a long time, that this isn't an impulse desire? Will you be able to afford it better now on sale or later after you make more money? Would you be ok putting your money into surround for headphones instead of other hobbies or a vacation?

One thing I will say though, for you and other considering buying it blind, the A16 isn't a small upgrade on the scale of diminishing returns... unless you have some specific HDMI concerns or don't know where you can listen to at least one good speaker, the quality of the unit and experience is very, very good.




teereqs said:


> Good stuff Ev! Thanks.
> 
> Massdrop is doing another drop of the TH-X00 Ebonies. I really want to get a pair, but not exactly the best timing for my wallet  Mr. Speakers Aeon seems like it would be a good choice too for only $200 more at the pre order price.



Yeah, I saw the Ebonies too. The Fostex headphones are so pretty, getting black is almost a shame but I bet it looks cooler in person than pictures. Thing is, I wouldn't take the TH-X00 out of the house, but I would use the ÆON any chance I could get. But I'm also conflicted because the TH-X00 is less cost, an almost artistic object to behold (I like wood), and I know it's fun signature would contrast better with my HD800 and give a different experience. Plus, my wife might get $200 more mad that I have another expensive headphone, lol!


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Friend of mine told me once, "Don't get too excited about the sale price, because you'll probably make more money next year and be able to better afford even a full-priced A16." Reasoned, sound advice. That I didn't follow. I'm applying for jobs, but there's no guarantee I can see that I'll be finding a new job (casually hunting since last year) or that it'll pay better than my $31k. $1k is pretty stiff, but I otherwise have kept a tight belt and now comes the tax refund.
> 
> So ask yourself, have you wanted it for a long time, that this isn't an impulse desire? Will you be able to afford it better now on sale or later after you make more money? Would you be ok putting your money into surround for headphones instead of other hobbies or a vacation?
> 
> ...




Go for the Teak, Ev. What I've read about it should be more to your liking while still having a different presentation than the HD800. The THX00 is a bit bassier than I'd think you'd prefer.


----------



## Evshrug

The For Honor Beta is awesome! I'm gonna twitch stream some gameplay if anyone wants to watch


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## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Go for the Teak, Ev. What I've read about it should be more to your liking while still having a different presentation than the HD800. The THX00 is a bit bassier than I'd think you'd prefer.




Hnggggh! Thanks for the suggestion, do want haha. I mean, I LIKE the idea of a portable closed can I can take to work and listen to during lunch (cuz I can't listen while working) but yeah.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Hnggggh! Thanks for the suggestion, do want haha. I mean, I LIKE the idea of a portable closed can I can take to work and listen to during lunch (cuz I can't listen while working) but yeah.




The new EMU versions have detachable cables now. Not really portable, but sufficient for use at the job (assuming you're at a desk, not constantly moving around haha).


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> The For Honor Beta is awesome! I'm gonna twitch stream some gameplay if anyone wants to watch


 

 So far the biggest challenge in this game for me was going through an entire match without any of the players randomly dropping out of the session.


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## lenroot77

change is good said:


> It's using similar generic shooter multiplayer formulas and modes, just with sword fighting. Tell me one pvp shooter that doesn't get repetitive besides the old Battlefields lol. Not necessarily a bad thing. Fun to pick up and play a couple matches with friends as you said.
> 
> I'm buying it so whatever spare time I get, this weekend, will be used to play Nioh.




Seems like it's just Dynasty Warriors? Kinda repetitive like... cough... DESTINY... cough ... 


Also I've heard good things about Nioh?


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> The new EMU versions have detachable cables now. Not really portable, but sufficient for use at the job (assuming you're at a desk, not constantly moving around haha).



Still in tech support, constantly standing and talking and moving around! So, maybe I shouldn't bother with a portable closed headphone, but sometimes I wish about the future, haha.


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Seems like it's just Dynasty Warriors? Kinda repetitive like... cough... DESTINY... cough ...
> 
> 
> Also I've heard good things about Nioh?




Sadly, dressing up your digital Barbie doll isn't the main point of this game 

Nioh is the shiznit, but very similar to souls games.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Still in tech support, constantly standing and talking and moving around! So, maybe I shouldn't bother with a portable closed headphone, but sometimes I wish about the future, haha.




Don't you already own the Vmoda? I'm assuming the new MrSpeakers aren't going to be much more portable than a detachable Fostex/emu. Unless they're smaller than what pics show. I know they weigh under 300 grams.

Edit: look what I just found. It's calling for you, Ev.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/835055/e-mu-teak-headphone-w-removable-cables-tylls-favorite-over-th-x00-shipped-conus


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, Lenroot is texting that too me too, haha. Oh the siren call!! But I do appreciate you guys trying to find something that'll make me happy, hahah

(And my V-Moda are uncomfortable, I only use them like 2x a year. Not sure how much to sell them for)


----------



## lenroot77

evshrug said:


> Yeah, Lenroot is texting that too me too, haha. Oh the siren call!! But I do appreciate you guys trying to find something that'll make me happy, hahah
> 
> (And my V-Moda are uncomfortable, I only use them like 2x a year. Not sure how much to sell them for)


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> Yeah, Lenroot is texting that too me too, haha. Oh the siren call!! But I do appreciate you guys trying to find something that'll make me happy, hahah
> 
> (And my V-Moda are uncomfortable, I only use them like 2x a year. Not sure how much to sell them for)




And another just popped up. *siren gets louder*

http://www.head-fi.org/t/835062/e-mu-teak-headphones-w-trs-balanced-removable-cables


----------



## Tacanacy

You can connect Turtle Beach Elite Pro Audio Controller to Magni and PS4 the same way as you do with the Astro mixamps, right?


----------



## Yethal

tacanacy said:


> You can connect Turtle Beach Elite Pro Audio Controller to Magni and PS4 the same way as you do with the Astro mixamps, right?


 

 Yup. Works exactly the same as the Mixamp.


----------



## Yethal

On a completely unrelated subject, check out what I recently picked up


----------



## FailedToListen

I already have a couple of Sennheiser 598's. I don't really need anymore, so I'm assuming the new HD599's aren't a worthy upgrade for what I'm looking for. I really don't want to spend more than $250, but the Sony's get great reviews all over the internet based on what I've seen. I'm looking for comfort, better bass than my 598's, I will be coupling the headphones with a Sound Blaster Z(so we're clear, I already own the Sound Blaster Z, so it may be a bit pointless to recommend something else to pair with the headphones)for a lot of gaming and music, and just the feeling of "ok, this is definitely a step above my 598's" Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If you have a couple of 598's why not sell all that stuff and hop on a Fostex TH-X00 variant?


----------



## FailedToListen

fegefeuer said:


> If you have a couple of 598's why not sell all that stuff and hop on a Fostex TH-X00 variant?


 
 Where can I find those?


----------



## ls13coco

failedtolisten said:


> Where can I find those?




There is the Ebony version on Massdrop right now but, a bit up there in price. Also, not open-back. I'm thinking of a pair, but not to take the place of open-back for competitive gaming.


----------



## Tacanacy

I wonder, since the Turtle Beach Elite Pro Audio Controller mixamp has an optical input _and_ output, is it possible to use Magni and Modi in conjunction with the mixamp and a game console?
  
 Like, you connect the console to the mixamp's optical input, Modi to the mixamp's optical output, and then Magni to Modi via RCA. And then headphones to Magni.
  
 With Magni and the Astro mixamps, I assume you'll be able to mix the game and chat volume despite the headphones being connected to the Magni, so I reckon this also applies to the Turtle Beach mixamp...


----------



## Yethal

tacanacy said:


> I wonder, since the Turtle Beach Elite Pro Audio Controller mixamp has an optical input _and_ output, is it possible to use Magni and Modi in conjunction with the mixamp and a game console?
> 
> Like, you connect the console to the mixamp's optical input, Modi to the mixamp's optical output, and then Magni to Modi via RCA. And then headphones to Magni.
> 
> With Magni and the Astro mixamps, I assume you'll be able to mix the game and chat volume despite the headphones being connected to the Magni, so I reckon this also applies to the Turtle Beach mixamp...


 

 Not gonna happen. Optical output on the TAC is passthrough only, You can use it to plug 5.1 speakers into the TAC, but not to output DTS processed two channel signal.
  
 And even if that would be possible the game/chat mixing wouldn't because (on Astro Mixamps at least) the mixing is done in the analog domain and optical output would bypass the analog mixer.


----------



## iAudio365

I'm thinking of buying the ether flow (not flow c) or the Elears for gaming. Does anyone have any experience with these enough to give me some advice? Would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> On a completely unrelated subject, check out what I recently picked up




Great piece of kit. 

I'm curious how much better of a music source than an X7 with upgraded op-amps is. I had a silver edition and just sold it.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Great piece of kit.
> 
> I'm curious how much better of a music source than an X7 with upgraded op-amps is. I had a silver edition and just sold it.


 

 I only have the Sparkos singles installed in my X7 (duals are on their way) and so far the iDSD BL wins with the X7. Better soundstage, better imaging, stronger bass, clearer highs. It's not a night and day difference (unlike the iDSD vs E18) but it's definitely there. It's just I'd love to compare it with X7+SS3601+SS3602 combo but I'll have to return the iDSD before the duals arrive (I got it on loan as part of the Review Tour).


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> If you have a couple of 598's why not sell all that stuff and hop on a Fostex TH-X00 variant?



Woah woah! The HD598 and TH-X00 are very different headphones, I know he said he wanted more bass but the HD598 is a small circumaural, "competitive" sound signature, open headphone, while the TH-X00 is a large, "fun/immersive" V-shaped sound signature, closed headphone. If the guy has several HD598 and decides to keep one, the TH-X00 would make a great contrasting compliment headphone, and he may overall prefer the Massdrop x Fostex headphone over the Sennheiser, but that's a pretty big leap of faith based on how much info he's given so far!

Anyway, the TH-X00 is a good headphone, I just recommend reading a review or two 




iaudio365 said:


> I'm thinking of buying the ether flow (not flow c) or the Elears for gaming. Does anyone have any experience with these enough to give me some advice? Would be greatly appreciated.



The Elear is awesome, like a grown-up and refined HD650, but if you can stretch for the Ether Flow you'd find it a little more technically capable. I think both headphones are great though, the Elear may be preferred for it's smoother high frequency response (treble).


----------



## iAudio365

evshrug said:


> Woah woah! The HD598 and TH-X00 are very different headphones, I know he said he wanted more bass but the HD598 is a small circumaural, "competitive" sound signature, open headphone, while the TH-X00 is a large, "fun/immersive" V-shaped sound signature, closed headphone. If the guy has several HD598 and decides to keep one, the TH-X00 would make a great contrasting compliment headphone, and he may overall prefer the Massdrop x Fostex headphone over the Sennheiser, but that's a pretty big leap of faith based on how much info he's given so far!
> 
> Anyway, the TH-X00 is a good headphone, I just recommend reading a review or two
> The Elear is awesome, like a grown-up and refined HD650, but if you can stretch for the Ether Flow you'd find it a little more technically capable. I think both headphones are great though, the Elear may be preferred for it's smoother high frequency response (treble).




Hey thanks so much for your response. I can stretch for the flow, i have either c's 1.1 currently so i can just go the upgrade route just going to see if i can sell them first so i dont need to wait. Looks like i will just go with the flows.


----------



## AxelCloris

I game pretty heavily with the ETHER Flow and on occasion the iSine 20. I don't game with the Elear, but we do have one at the office so maybe on Monday I can test the same game with the Flow and Elear for a quick A/B. If you have any specific questions about gaming with the Flow let me know.


----------



## iAudio365

axelcloris said:


> I game pretty heavily with the ETHER Flow and on occasion the iSine 20. I don't game with the Elear, but we do have one at the office so maybe on Monday I can test the same game with the Flow and Elear for a quick A/B. If you have any specific questions about gaming with the Flow let me know.




just a couple of questions as I have only used the ether c 1-1's for music and gaming. 

What is the bass/sound stage like for an open headphone? I will be gaming a lot in them as well as listening to house, rock/metal and hiphop. 

Here's my conumdrum. I can upgrade my ether c 1.1's to the flows (non c flows I would get) or for a similar price point I could just buy a new set of elears, but there's an issue there as well, I'm starting to hear bad things about the drivers dostorting or other issues and seeing no so great reviews on them now they've been out in the wild for some time. 

Personally I'm really leaning to the upgrade path for the ether flows. Or i might just say stuff it and keep them and just buy the flows hahaha. I also just pre ordered the new AEONs as well. (I'm a sound whore). Thanks for any help.

Please make my decisission for me. What would you do hahahaha.


----------



## Evshrug

If you got the AEON, I would get the open Ether flow, lol!

The Elear actually has remarkably low distortion, lower than most headphones, so I wouldn't fault them that way. There is a small shallow notch in the frequency curve, but in my two auditions of it I didn't hear it stand out to me. I think that once the hype and anti-hype clears, the Elear is a very good headphone with liquid, musical mids and a bit relaxed treble, and a good hi-fi headphone.

However, the Ether Flow is summit-fi, and one that I personally love for it's character and light weight, and I'd recommend it to you as a stablemate to your ÆON. The ÆON may even outperform your Ether C 1.1, I'd love your impressions on the comparison lol


----------



## iAudio365

evshrug said:


> If you got the AEON, I would get the open Ether flow, lol!
> 
> The Elear actually has remarkably low distortion, lower than most headphones, so I wouldn't fault them that way. There is a small shallow notch in the frequency curve, but in my two auditions of it I didn't hear it stand out to me. I think that once the hype and anti-hype clears, the Elear is a very good headphone with liquid, musical mids and a bit relaxed treble, and a good hi-fi headphone.
> 
> However, the Ether Flow is summit-fi, and one that I personally love for it's character and light weight, and I'd recommend it to you as a stablemate to your ÆON. The ÆON may even outperform your Ether C 1.1, I'd love your impressions on the comparison lol




Thanks so much for your feed back. The flow it shall be! 

I will for sure let you know how the AEON performs I cant wait to get them. 

You 100% helped make my decission so much easier. 

Thank you!


----------



## Evshrug

Thumbs up! Excited for you!


----------



## kellte2

iaudio365 said:


> Hey thanks so much for your response. I can stretch for the flow, i have either c's 1.1 currently so i can just go the upgrade route just going to see if i can sell them first so i dont need to wait. Looks like i will just go with the flows.




C Flow is great for gaming. I imagine the open variant would be excellent, too. Can't go wrong, in my opinion.


----------



## themrmikemcd

DNA monster pro for $99.00 for Music listening first, immersive gaming second. YAY OR NAY?


----------



## AxelCloris

iaudio365 said:


> just a couple of questions as I have only used the ether c 1-1's for music and gaming.
> 
> What is the bass/sound stage like for an open headphone? I will be gaming a lot in them as well as listening to house, rock/metal and hiphop.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Typically speaking, soundstage is larger and bass is less prominent on an open headphone when compared to a closed model. I haven't spent much time with the C Flow, but going off the Ether vs Ether C, the C had more sub-bass and the Ether had a bit of a bump in the mid-bass with more falloff as it got lower. The C Flow that I spent the most time listening to was an early model that had a defect, so I can't make solid comparisons from memory as it wouldn't be fair to a functioning pair.
  
 I can't say that I've heard an Elear distorting, but I'll be honest and admit that I don't listen to the one we have at the office because the sound signature doesn't match my preferences. I greatly prefer the Utopia if using anything from the Focal line. For me my original Ether was the best compromise headphone I could find, so I bought it. When the Flow came along, it made it seem as though the headphones weren't compromising anymore and were able to deliver almost 100% of what I wanted. The only real complaint I have when gaming with the Ether is that it doesn't have the largest of soundstages, but still quite spacious for a planar.
  
 The ÆON is one I've been curious to use for gaming, and if my coworkers aren't listening to them at home this week I'll try to get some quick games going with them. Speaking of, Jude may have taken the Elear pads off the Elear to use with the Utopia again, so I might not be able to test those until late in the week. 
  
 My prediction: the Flow will best the Elear. I've been wrong with my predictions before, but the Elear has a signature that I find is typically better suited to music listening than gaming. As a friend described it, it's like a super-HD 650, and if it's like the HD 650 I owned previously it'll be too thick sounding to be as immersive as I'd like. We'll see what happens when I get to listen.


----------



## iAudio365

axelcloris said:


> Typically speaking, soundstage is larger and bass is less prominent on an open headphone when compared to a closed model. I haven't spent much time with the C Flow, but going off the Ether vs Ether C, the C had more sub-bass and the Ether had a bit of a bump in the mid-bass with more falloff as it got lower. The C Flow that I spent the most time listening to was an early model that had a defect, so I can't make solid comparisons from memory as it wouldn't be fair to a functioning pair.
> 
> I can't say that I've heard an Elear distorting, but I'll be honest and admit that I don't listen to the one we have at the office because the sound signature doesn't match my preferences. I greatly prefer the Utopia if using anything from the Focal line. For me my original Ether was the best compromise headphone I could find, so I bought it. When the Flow came along, it made it seem as though the headphones weren't compromising anymore and were able to deliver almost 100% of what I wanted. The only real complaint I have when gaming with the Ether is that it doesn't have the largest of soundstages, but still quite spacious for a planar.
> 
> ...




Wow Thanks Axel for your detailed response.

Thats the thing with headphones they all sound different, unfortunatly I can't buy every pair to try haha. Wish i could! 

I decided and went with the Ether Flow full upgrade path from my Ether C 1.1's and I think as previously stated by another member on here they will compliment my AEONs very well when i get them in (the wait is killing me haha) 

I loved the the 1.1s for gaming and I have heard many say the bass and sound stage is even better in the flows so even a slight upgrade I will be more than happy with. And having a pair of AEONs as well I might end up just using them for gaming and on the go as well seeing as I hear almost anything can drive them.

Now I'm just tossing up on up graded amp/dac for my deaktop which I don't have to much space so I hear the Mojo might be the way to go and will compliment both headsets very well as its a little warmer. Plus i can take it with me.

I need to do more research on it though as I was under the impression it was an all in one amp/dac combo (must of read it wrong somewhere down the line) 

I know your busy, but if if have any good ideas for an amp/dac all in one unit or even think the mojo + something else added is the way to go I am all ears. 

Have a great day!

Edit: Sorry I should say as well, I listen to a ***** load of music, hiphop, house, rock etc. not just gaming. But I do have a gaming addiction


----------



## Evshrug

themrmikemcd said:


> DNA monster pro for $99.00 for Music listening first, immersive gaming second. YAY OR NAY?



Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.




iaudio365 said:


> Wow Thanks Axel for your detailed response.
> 
> ...
> Now I'm just tossing up on upgraded amp/dac for my desktop, on which I don't have to much space. I hear the Mojo might be the way to go, and will compliment both headsets very well, as its a little warmer. Plus I can take it with me.
> ...




Love my Mojo!
I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!

Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.


----------



## iAudio365

evshrug said:


> Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.
> Love my Mojo!
> I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!
> 
> Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.





Wow, thanks so much for the feed back. You sold me. I will get one, would there be any other over the X7 to pair it with that you might recommend? A friend said a lot of people use it with the liquid carbon (but I know they discontinued that i think) 

Again thank you so much for the help.


----------



## iAudio365

evshrug said:


> Mad loved them, because they had his ideal "Fun" sound signature, but the headband snapped like Beats used to do (back when Monster made them). $99 is a very good price on those, but I recommend reading Mad's review and see if his description matches what you're looking for.
> Love my Mojo!
> I have to ask though, warmer than what? I wouldn't say the Mojo changes the frequency response to bring more dB in the mid and midbass range, I think it has a relatively flat frequency response. However, this is no flat soda; it gives me the fizz! (Kudos if you get the TopGear reference). Compared to my Creative E5, for example, it does sound more exciting and lively because the impact is more solid, timbre is more real and has more going on (gotta love the cello strings in the For Honor beta!), soundstage depth is easier to hear, and female vocals are more real instead of digital/plastic (and that realism is more sweet to me). I have heard DACs and Amps that seem to bring the low end more forward than the Mojo does; I characterize the Mojo by its energetic, addictive qualities. By comparison, I characterize the SoundBlaster X7 by its airy, detail focused sound. Using the Mojo with the X7 definitely doesn't hurt the surround or soundstage capabilities!
> 
> Also, the Mojo DOES function as a standalone unit without needing another amp (though sometimes I use my Liquid Carbon), but it doesn't use capacitors, potentiometer, or (I believe) opamps as you would traditionally expect from an amplifier. It controls volume digitally with voltage output, and it has an overall shorter signal path between DAC and headphone. In short, it works as a stand-alone if you feed it a digital signal.




Alright it seems cavalli audio has the liquid carbon 2.0 still in stock I think i will get that to pair with the mojo. Hearing some very good things about it.


----------



## AxelCloris

iaudio365 said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the feed back. You sold me. I will get one, would there be any other over the X7 to pair it with that you might recommend? A friend said a lot of people use it with the liquid carbon (but I know they discontinued that i think)
> 
> Again thank you so much for the help.


 
  
 Just a quick note: the Mojo isn't able to decode anything over a 2-channel signal on its own, so that means no surround processing. If you're going back and forth deciding between the X7 and the Mojo for gaming use, you'll need to have some way to get a processed digital signal into the Mojo and that requires additional hardware. For music I personally feel that the Mojo spanks the X7, but the X7 is the better all-rounder that doesn't need additional hardware for surround gaming.
  
 I run my Mojo out of my PC via optical for gaming. Inside the PC I have a Xonar DG that generates a digitally pre-mixed Dolby Headphone signal for my Mojo, giving me surround sound on all games. On console you'd need something like the X7 to mix the signal and then digitally send it to your Mojo and that setup does take time to... set up. You mentioned desktop gaming above, is that all you use? No console?
  
 I think the Mojo is the better sounding unit, but if you're on console or don't want to buy extra hardware for a PC the X7 may be the better option. The Mojo doesn't require an amp for the ETHER Flow, but a good amp will give you more headroom and more authority in the sonics.


----------



## Azurik

I asked before but how is the mojo for gaming? I prefer stereo sound so using the mojo without vss wouldn't bother me. 

I'm looking to get the mojo for gaming (ps4), music and whatever else I can you it for. 

Is it worth it and would it sound better on the ps4 than a cheap optical DAC/Amp? Or would there be hardly any difference justifying the price? It would probably sound better than plugging the cans directly in the controller or TV headphone jack but is the mojo as good for gaming as for music, bearing in mind the ps4 "only" does 16bit 44.1khz if I'm not wrong.


----------



## Evshrug

You don't use headphone surround? GIT OUTTA this thread, aaahrahrahrawr!



Joking aside, sorry that headphone surround sounds less realistic for you rather than more realistic. Every once in awhile, people like you hear reverb and distortion rather than an enhanced sense of imaging, so you're not alone. I kinda wish I could set up a personalized measurement using a Smyth Realiser and see if things sound realistic and out of your head for those who haven't gotten to hear good headphone surround yet, just to see if THAT would work. But I digress.

The Mojo is going to have a more accurate reproduction of analog signals from digital bitstreams, even with CD quality music and equivalent-quality 16/44.1kHz gaming audio. I don't actually know if the PS4 games can output better than 16/44.1, but even at that rate a cheaper DAC sounds more dull and compressed than a Mojo. The soundstage will still seem to only span between your ears in a straight line, but weirdly you will still get a better sense of depth and imaging too. If you can afford it, I would recommend a Mojo, even to gamers.


----------



## iAudio365

axelcloris said:


> Just a quick note: the Mojo isn't able to decode anything over a 2-channel signal on its own, so that means no surround processing. If you're going back and forth deciding between the X7 and the Mojo for gaming use, you'll need to have some way to get a processed digital signal into the Mojo and that requires additional hardware. For music I personally feel that the Mojo spanks the X7, but the X7 is the better all-rounder that doesn't need additional hardware for surround gaming.
> 
> I run my Mojo out of my PC via optical for gaming. Inside the PC I have a Xonar DG that generates a digitally pre-mixed Dolby Headphone signal for my Mojo, giving me surround sound on all games. On console you'd need something like the X7 to mix the signal and then digitally send it to your Mojo and that setup does take time to... set up. You mentioned desktop gaming above, is that all you use? No console?
> 
> I think the Mojo is the better sounding unit, but if you're on console or don't want to buy extra hardware for a PC the X7 may be the better option. The Mojo doesn't require an amp for the ETHER Flow, but a good amp will give you more headroom and more authority in the sonics.




I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below) 

"ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use. 

I like the mojo also becausebof its size and I'm currently running my schiit uber stack through the digital optical cable.

Edit: is the x7 your talking about the creative sound blaster x7 or do you have a link? 

But all in all I'm stuck on getting the mojo for sure just want a great amp to team up with it


----------



## Azurik

evshrug said:


> You don't use headphone surround? GIT OUTTA this thread, aaahrahrahrawr!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for your reply. I do use a mixamp TR once in a while but as soon as I hit the Dolby headphone button and the echoey sound kicks in, I remember why I don't like it. Playing Call of Duty for example in an outside area and it sounds like in a cave is somewhat an immersion killer. Besides more and more games seem to have their own vss or similar headphone mode already on disc such as resident evil 7 or similar. Xbox one is also getting a headphone surround built in with the next update. It appears that the times of all the tacs and mixamps might be coming to an end. Hence my idea of using a good DAC/Amp with decent headphones. Got the Akg k812 for gaming so I hope the mojo would benefit greatly. 

In regards to the a16 Smyth I think on paper it sounds great with atmos, DTS x and all other headphone surround modes supported but as mainly a gamer it won't be any good to me because all games today support only DTS at best. The a16 probably has some sort of upscale but from a gaming prospective it does not make much sense to purchase. That might change when the next gen of consoles roll out with better sound support. Unless I'm totally wrong the the a16 is also a beast for gaming then I'm preordering one now


----------



## AxelCloris

iaudio365 said:


> I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below)
> 
> "ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Yes, the X7 I refer to is the Creative Sound Blaster X7. It's a nice offering for a complete package.
  
 I don't know anything about the built-in sound card on your motherboard, so you'll have to look into the settings to see if it can do what you need. Since the Mojo is doing all of the heavy lifting, the only thing your motherboard will need to do is output a surround processed signal digitally over coax or optical. Most sound cards cannot output a processed digital signal, settling for only doing the processing on the card's analog outputs. The Xonar DG I mentioned is for PC, it won't do anything for consoles. Its only task is to generate the signal my Mojo needs to give me surround gaming on the PC.
  
 As for amping, my suggestion is to first try the Mojo by itself and see how that resonates with you. If you feel it needs more power then you can always add an amp later. If you like how it sounds without it then you're set without spending any more. The variable output on the Mojo is strong enough to drive the Flow to what I consider painful levels. Adding an amp to the Mojo isn't something that's required, only suggested if you want more current for the headphone. I used to use the Mojo > LC combo and found it to be excellent and better than the Mojo by itself, but the Mojo alone is no slouch.


----------



## Evshrug

Aw.
iAudio365, I was most of the way through a great reply to you, had to set my phone down for awhile. When I came back, the page refreshed, my type was trashed, and I am sad.
Don't even remember what I was going to say. Cavalli makes excellent sounding gear, I guess.


----------



## Evshrug

iaudio365 said:


> I mainly game on pc, listen to music from pc etc I have a ps4 and xbox one as well. The x1 just used for netflix lol. The ps4 i use for exclusives (but rarely gets used at all) i have a ASUS Maximus VIII Hero Alpha motherboard in my pc that has onboard audio built in. The souncard it uses on my mb is supreme fx (quoted from asus below)
> 
> "ESS® ES9023P digital-to-analog converter (DAC) with Hyperstream™ technology, ultra-low-jitter clock, Nichicon capacitors, 2VRMS headphone amp, and Sonic SenseAmp that automatically detects and optimizes any headset (32-600ohms) for purest sound quality. SupremeFX 2015 also features intuitive Sonic Studio II, so you'll apply and enjoy different audio effects for perfect entertainment" so combined with that would the mojo be all i need? Or should i get an amp as well? Was looking at the liquid carbon but found a pretty nasty thread on here https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/12642-cavalli-audio-liquid-carbon/ which kinda put me off is all that true? Or would you recommend something else in a similar price bracket being that i have the onboard audio built into my mb as it is. I can still by the Xonar as well for console use.
> 
> ...




ooooOOOH GEEZ!! Look, the members of that website (lead by a guy who makes and sells his own amps) and another website (lead by the president of another rival amp maker) have generally had it in for Cavalli since well before the Carbon was even released. Here's the opening argument on your link, paraphrased:

I bought a broken one so I can tell you guys how bad it is!
Here's pictures of the inside.
Cavalli is a liar!
It has a phase splitter (to split single-ended inputs into a balanced signal before doing balanced amplification, no mention of balanced inputs), so it's not actually balanced!
It's a weak amp! (Conservatively rated for 1.5W @32 Ohms, uuuuuh that's not weak)
He uses off the shelf parts, what a crook!
He made his own parts, what a cheapskate! Swearing!
Never fear, I will be a hero and take a hit so I can leave a bad review of it... head-fi style.

First comment after that is "I'm glad I talked someone out of it. Also, bad omen that it damages the amp if you connect headphones to both the SE and Balance outputs!" (Uh, unless there are two separate amps or a hard wired switch, you should never ever connect headphones to SE and Balanced at the same time, on any amp)

I'm not saying there aren't other good or great amps out there, I'm just saying the Liquid Carbon re-set the bar high for what a $700 or $800 amp could do, and though mine had an issue initially (Cavalli had it fixed and shipped back in my house in like a week and a half) it has been working flawlessly and sounding great for over a year now. Pre-biased and self-contradictory flame threads on angry sub communities aren't going to sway me from enjoying my unit and recommending it as a good amp for others.

But like AxelCloris said, just try the Mojo first. You might be satisfied right away. But if you want a LC and you want to pick up a LC 2 before this group ends, that's ok too because it's a great sounding amp and will retain its resale value well if you feel like trying something else. Your own ears will be the best judge.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I want a fresh look at options here....  My budget has been reduced to around $500.   Looking for help here!!! Need to replace 3 year old Creative Sound Recon3D .. 100% surround movie watching use.. My Recon3D which I have been using for watching movies just tanked and I need to replace it. It was ok, but not great. I typically am feed it streaming movies from DirectTV or my Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling Blu-ray Disc Player (2014 Model). Ive been using a 15 year old tube amp (Musical Fidelity XCAN v2). AKG K712 headphones. TV is Panasonic 65" VT60. I dont have to keep the XCAN. Marantz AV7702 preamp processor (but the headphone surround mode sucks in my opinion)
  
 So Im looking for options. I was hoping to be around $500.  
  
  
 1.. The Sound Blaster X7 sounds good here too and have heard some people going with the full upgrade options ( Sparkos SS3601 and SS3602 OP amp upgrade )
 2. There is the Ear Force Dss2? Mixamp Pro TR?  Turtle Beach - Elite Pro Tactical Audio Controller - DTS Headphone:X 7.1
 3. Separate DAC in the chain?
  
 Are there other options I should be looking at?
 Does any know where I could buy a fully upgraded X7 (Im not very handy and would prefer someone who has already installed the full op amp upgrades.)
 Can any hypothesize how these would compare?
  
 I am 100% movie watching Any help is greatly appreciated!


----------



## iAudio365

evshrug said:


> Aw.
> iAudio365, I was most of the way through a great reply to you, had to set my phone down for awhile. When I came back, the page refreshed, my type was trashed, and I am sad.
> Don't even remember what I was going to say. Cavalli makes excellent sounding gear, I guess.




Haha. I hate that.

Read all your reaponses you put my mind at eaze with sensible well thought out and knowledgable responses. Thank you so much I will get the LC and the Mojo seems like a good set and amazingly their still in stock at cavalli. I thought they would of all gone by now. Anyway thanks again you have been a fantastic help.


----------



## PurpleAngel

michaeljames99 said:


> I want a fresh look at options here....  My budget has been reduced to around $500.   Looking for help here!!! Need to replace 3 year old Creative Sound Recon3D .. 100% surround movie watching use.. My Recon3D which I have been using for watching movies just tanked and I need to replace it. It was ok, but not great. I typically am feed it streaming movies from DirectTV or my Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling Blu-ray Disc Player (2014 Model). Ive been using a 15 year old tube amp (Musical Fidelity XCAN v2). AKG K712 headphones. TV is Panasonic 65" VT60. I dont have to keep the XCAN. Marantz AV7702 preamp processor (but the headphone surround mode sucks in my opinion)
> So I'm looking for options. I was hoping to be around $500.
> 1.. The Sound Blaster X7 sounds good here too and have heard some people going with the full upgrade options ( Sparkos SS3601 and SS3602 OP amp upgrade )
> 2. There is the Ear Force Dss2? Mixamp Pro TR?  Turtle Beach - Elite Pro Tactical Audio Controller - DTS Headphone:X 7.1
> ...


 
  
 You might consider to pass on surround sound, just go for good stereo audio quality.
 Connect the Direct TV and Samsung BD-F7500 to the Panasonic TC-P65VT60 using HDMI.
 And run optical from the P65VT60 to something like a Schiit Modi (optical input) DAC, then connect the DAC to the Musical Fidelity XCAN v2
 Even Hifimediy offers an optical DAC for only $60.


----------



## MichaelJames99

What about increasing the budget and going to the Smyth A16 for $1600?


----------



## mbyrnes

michaeljames99 said:


> I want a fresh look at options here....  My budget has been reduced to around $500.   Looking for help here!!! Need to replace 3 year old Creative Sound Recon3D .. 100% surround movie watching use.. My Recon3D which I have been using for watching movies just tanked and I need to replace it. It was ok, but not great. I typically am feed it streaming movies from DirectTV or my Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling Blu-ray Disc Player (2014 Model). Ive been using a 15 year old tube amp (Musical Fidelity XCAN v2). AKG K712 headphones. TV is Panasonic 65" VT60. I dont have to keep the XCAN. Marantz AV7702 preamp processor (but the headphone surround mode sucks in my opinion)
> 
> So Im looking for options. I was hoping to be around $500.
> 
> ...


 
  
 You are kind of in a weird spot. Your Marantz should have Dolby Headphone, and it has always sounded fine to me for gaming, but honestly never used it for movies (My Dad's Marantz AVR was older, the SR8500 I believe). Are you positive DH was active? just want to make sure, as I remember it was a pain to activate on my Dad's old unit. Dolby Headphone is one of the most commonly used, licensed surround techs so other products using it should be virtually the same. Astro products are Dolby Headphone, so it should sound identical to the Marantz, or extremely close. 
  
 Maybe what you can do is pickup the X7 and the Elite Pro Tac from Best Buy, and return whichever you don't like. X7 uses SBX surround sound, the other DTS Headphone:X. You could directly compare all 3 technologies to each other, and see which you prefer. I would love to hear a comparison for just movies, as most of us are heavy gamers who listen to movies less often. The DSS2 isn't made anymore, so if you bought it you are most likely stuck with it unless you resell. They aren't expensive, so grabbing one on Ebay would give you the 4 major options I am aware of. 
  
 The last option, and the best option, is the Smyth Realizer A-16, which is coming later this year. It's also currently way above your price at $1,650+ pre-order, and $2,000 or so once it is available regularly. That's a whole different level, and maybe something to consider down the road.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Marantz dropped Dolby headphone on most of their receivers.  Including mine.  It just uses a really poor Surround mode.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Audiphiles need your opinion. What does this say about me?

I bought the Porta pro headphones and upon first listen, I didn't like what it did to my music. I listen to mostly rock music. Seether, shine down, skillet, and rock with female vocalists. 

For my ears it felt like things were "warm" I think? Almost like it made things sound muffled a bit? 

Does this mean I don't like heavy bass? I love guitar and drums in music. I almost feel like it's all just blending in with these. What does this say about me...if anything?


----------



## Yethal

themrmikemcd said:


> Audiphiles need your opinion. What does this say about me?
> 
> I bought the Porta pro headphones and upon first listen, I didn't like what it did to my music. I listen to mostly rock music. Seether, shine down, skillet, and rock with female vocalists.
> 
> ...


 

 It means You have your own opinion on them and that's a good thing.


----------



## themrmikemcd

yethal said:


> It means You have your own opinion on them and that's a good thing.


Ha. Thanks. But i meant more like, what does this say about me as far as what sound profile I might be looking for in my music. If I describe the above, what type of headphone sound would I be more likely to enjoy with this kind of music if i feel these have the sound I described? Maybe im not asking the right questions?


----------



## PurpleAngel

michaeljames99 said:


> Marantz dropped Dolby headphone on most of their receivers.  Including mine.  It just uses a really poor Surround mode.


 
  
 Just looked up that Marantz AV7702.
 Guess if i was you i would be spending a lot of time trying to get the headphone surround sound to work right.
 With the Samsung hooked up to the Marantz, did you both the Samsung's PCM and Bitstream audio (HDMI) output?
 Does the Direct TV have both PCM and Surround audio output settings (tried them both)?


----------



## Yethal

themrmikemcd said:


> Ha. Thanks. But i meant more like, what does this say about me as far as what sound profile I might be looking for in my music. If I describe the above, what type of headphone sound would I be more likely to enjoy with this kind of music if i feel these have the sound I described? Maybe im not asking the right questions?


 

 Might want to try something more neutral or even bass-light to get a range.


----------



## themrmikemcd

yethal said:


> Might want to try something more neutral or even bass-light to get a range.


Okay, so after using these all day yesterday my opinion on the Porta pro headphones has changed and I really like them! Even more so for gaming with my Astro mixamp. It took a bit to get used to their sound for me, but I think these are a keeper!


----------



## mbyrnes

michaeljames99 said:


> Marantz dropped Dolby headphone on most of their receivers.  Including mine.  It just uses a really poor Surround mode.




Explains why you hate it!


----------



## mbyrnes

themrmikemcd said:


> Okay, so after using these all day yesterday my opinion on the Porta pro headphones has changed and I really like them! Even more so for gaming with my Astro mixamp. It took a bit to get used to their sound for me, but I think these are a keeper!




This happens, and it really depends on what you are used to. Adjustment periods can be a day or two, up to weeks. Awesome you didn't give up too soon. 

Listening to different headphones (speakers), you'll find certain things you like and things you don't. Eventually you have a really good idea of your perfect sound and then you can look for it, and know it when you hear it. Preferences can and do change, especially with age. 

Literally took me about 8 years to find speakers that sounded the way I wanted. I demoed model after model, in price ranges from affordable to no intent of ever buying (sometimes a brand's house sound will get you close, then the model may be harder to locate and listen to). I'm fortunate to live in an area with a plethora of dealers. 

All these years later and I'm still amazed by the sound I get from my speakers. Headphones are newer for me, and I've got a few that I really love. Much cheaper to get insanely good sound, but can still be a money pit! 

Good luck to you and your wallet. Curiosity gets us all!


----------



## themrmikemcd

mbyrnes said:


> This happens, and it really depends on what you are used to. Adjustment periods can be a day or two, up to weeks. Awesome you didn't give up too soon.
> 
> Listening to different headphones (speakers), you'll find certain things you like and things you don't. Eventually you have a really good idea of your perfect sound and then you can look for it, and know it when you hear it. Preferences can and do change, especially with age.
> 
> ...


ha. Thanks. Yea, I almost shipped them back and then I made myself listen to them for hours. Glad I did that. I think I was also battling buyers remorse wondering if I could have gotten something better for the price. My wallet is beyond broken at this point lol. 

With superlux 668b, hyper x cloud 2, shp9500, CALS, dt880 pro, m40x and now these...I would glady trade them all for a pair of fidelio x 2s and be done with it all and have 1 pair of headphones lol. Stupid upgraditus!


----------



## expontherise

I wont take being properly redirected to a thread wrong 

 I have the Xbox Elite controller ($150) and the audio that it produces is so grainy through my headphones and.. it sounds like its hooked up to a cheap, bad amp (which is probably the actual reason haha)
  
 However my standard Xbox one remote, does not have the same issue..  Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this, It is not my V-moda boom pro mic either as again, only my expensive controller is not providing me audio quality i would expect.. I do have a warranty on the expensive controller, do you feel this would warrant a proper replacement inquiry?
  
 Or maybe should I just get a dac and connect with the optical source, then get a mic (or just make a stand for my boom mic lol)?
  
 Any ideas on what I should try to do?


----------



## AxelCloris

expontherise said:


> I wont take being properly redirected to a thread wrong
> 
> I have the Xbox Elite controller ($150) and the audio that it produces is so grainy through my headphones and.. it sounds like its hooked up to a cheap, bad amp (which is probably the actual reason haha)
> 
> ...


 
  
 Sounds like you'll need to contact Microsoft. If it only does it on one device and not the other then that sounds like an open and shut case.


----------



## expontherise

axelcloris said:


> Sounds like you'll need to contact Microsoft. If it only does it on one device and not the other then that sounds like an open and shut case.


 
  
 I agree, ...I suppose I was over-thinking it a bit lol. Thanks


----------



## raband

Stupid/easy question, but the post above got me wondering.
  
 I'm pretty sure the Elite controller hooks up to the PC ok?
  
 Does the audio port work the same as it does on the XBox when on the PC?


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> Stupid/easy question, but the post above got me wondering.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the Elite controller hooks up to the PC ok?
> 
> Does the audio port work the same as it does on the XBox when on the PC?


 

 It does, the microphone works too.


----------



## raband

Cheers - could be handy for using headphones when the PC/Projector are at the other end of the room


----------



## Zorgon

I recently went from a full-size computer with a Xonar DX to a small form factor build with no internal expansion slots to spare. What are the premier USB DACs that offer virtual surround sound? It seems that Dolby Headphone isn't really supported on newer devices, so I'm kinda lost on things like Dolby Atmos and DTS Headphone:X.


----------



## Yethal

zorgon said:


> I recently went from a full-size computer with a Xonar DX to a small form factor build with no internal expansion slots to spare. What are the premier USB DACs that offer virtual surround sound? It seems that Dolby Headphone isn't really supported on newer devices, so I'm kinda lost on things like Dolby Atmos and DTS Headphone:X.


 

 Depends on the budget man. On the affordable side there is the Sound Blaster Omni and Sound Blaster G5, next we have the Sound Blaster X7 (very popular in this thread) and then there's the Smyth Realizer which is obscenely expensive but its underlying tech wins against anything Creative or Asus have to offer. Unless You want to go software-only in which case Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head software is really nice.


----------



## raband

What sounds chip is on your motherboard? Some have VSS options.
  
 There also a free Razer option? Not sure if it's any good. https://www.razerzone.com/au-en/surround


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> What sounds chip is on your motherboard? Some have VSS options.
> 
> There also a free Razer option? Not sure if it's any good. https://www.razerzone.com/au-en/surround


 

 It was pretty terrible the last time I tried it.


----------



## raband

Yeah - thought it would be.


----------



## Zorgon

yethal said:


> Depends on the budget man. On the affordable side there is the Sound Blaster Omni and Sound Blaster G5, next we have the Sound Blaster X7 (very popular in this thread) and then there's the Smyth Realizer which is obscenely expensive but its underlying tech wins against anything Creative or Asus have to offer. Unless You want to go software-only in which case Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head software is really nice.


 
  
 Thanks for the reply. The X7 is a bit more than I can stomach, and overkill for my needs as I don't need all the different console inputs and whatnot. I figure I can top out around the the Sennheiser GSX-series in terms of price (around $200-$250 USD). I've definitely had my eye on the Sound BlasterX G5, but have been wondering how it compares to GSX/Asus U-series/MixAmp Pro TR as far as virtual surround implementation goes. I actually should've mentioned previously that this is actually primarily for movies, as I have the FiiO E10K for music.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, you asked for the Premier USB DAC with DSP!

If you want Dolby Headphone in an external, your best bet is to get the cheapest external Asus with an optical output (the Xonar U3) and just connecting that to a decent optical DAC.

If you don't already have one, I generally have preferred Creative's DSP for years, and I'd recommend the Omni 5.1. It's a decent starter USB/DSP/DAC/Amp combo by itself, but if later you feel like sinking further into the hobby you can send the headphone DSP mix out the optical port to another DAC (so the Omni will be useful for awhile).

The Creative G5 can do 7.1 surround for PC and has a better Amp than the Omni, but if you want something better than the Omni I would highly recommend going all the way up to a Creative E5. It shares a lot in common with the G5 (DAC, Amp, enclosure form factor), but it also has a battery, Bluetooth, a decent built-in mic, USB Host port for a digital connection to smartphones/tablets, and makes a pretty great portable DAC/Amp which currently your FiiO E10k can't do (you wouldn't need the FiiO anymore, the E5 can take its place and do more besides).

If you want to stick with the FiiO E10k, then Darin's Out Of Your Head software is probably the best software-only DSP. Darin's CanJam demos were with movies, and that's probably the best use of the software. it should be do-able. Creative also sells a software suite that includes headphone surround.


----------



## PurpleAngel

zorgon said:


> I recently went from a full-size computer with a Xonar DX to a small form factor build with no internal expansion slots to spare. What are the premier USB DACs that offer virtual surround sound? It seems that Dolby Headphone isn't really supported on newer devices, so I'm kinda lost on things like Dolby Atmos and DTS Headphone:X.


 
  
 DACs do not come with virtual surround sound.
 A DAC with a DSP chip, that does virtual suround sound is called an external sound card.
 (just making sure we are all on the same page for what is being discussed)
 So your looking for an external sound card for headphone surround sound (Dolby or Creative's SBX)
  
 I do not think Dolby Atmos or DTS Headphone X is supported on any computer sound cards......yet.
 So i guess it's Creative Labs SBX Headphone or Dolby Headphone, for available choices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

zorgon said:


> Thanks for the reply. The X7 is a bit more than I can stomach, and overkill for my needs as I don't need all the different console inputs and whatnot. I figure I can top out around the the Sennheiser GSX-series in terms of price (around $200-$250 USD). I've definitely had my eye on the Sound BlasterX G5, but have been wondering how it compares to GSX/Asus U-series/MixAmp Pro TR as far as virtual surround implementation goes. I actually should've mentioned previously that this is actually primarily for movies, as I have the FiiO E10K for music.


 
  
 I would say an Astro Mix-amp is a good choice for gaming consoles (optical connection).
 But for a a Win PC you have the option of using a sound card with a USB connection.
 So I say check out the USB sound cards from Creative Labs, better DAC chip and more powerful headphone amplifier, then the Mix-amp.
 I would prefer (for an external) an Asus sound card, like the U7, but it's headphone amplifer is not as powerful as the newer Creative external cards.
  
 If you get and use Cyberlinks PowerDVD software, it can do all the headphone surround sound processing, on it's own.
 So all you would need is an exteral (USB or optical) DAC/amp, like your current FiiO E10K.
 Here is PowerDVD 15, only $35
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/192039516853?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
  
 What headphones do you use with the E10K?


----------



## Zorgon

Should've specified I primarily watch movies with the Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition (50ohm). I also have the PC 350 Special Edition (150ohm) for gaming/voip, but movies far and away have higher priority for me. I don't really see myself upgrading to a headphone tier with higher impedance any time soon (if anything may consolidate the two into one of the higher-end open headsets), so I don't think an amp is super necessary. Similarly, I am unlikely to be upgrading from the FiiO E10K in the foreseeable future as well. I should note that I'm not really interested in a software-only solution. 
  
 G5/E5 - I don't really need the portability features of the E5 at the moment, but that is more subject to change than my class of headphones. I am interested in the prospect of using one of them as a complete solution and replacing my E10K, is the sound really comparable/superior?
 U3 - Has a cheap look so I probably won't go that route.
 U7 - Caught my eye previously. I don't think the weaker headphone amp would be an issue for my needs. Thoughts on the U7 vs U7 MKII? My motherboard has the SupremeFX S1220A codec on top of what I believe is the Realtek ALC1220, and uses Sonic Studio which I am not a fan of, especially when compared to my old DX's Xonar Audio Center. I wonder if ASIO driver support is actually dropped in the MKII.


----------



## PurpleAngel

zorgon said:


> Should've specified I primarily watch movies with the Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition (50ohm). I also have the PC 350 Special Edition (150ohm) for gaming/voip, but movies far and away have higher priority for me. I don't really see myself upgrading to a headphone tier with higher impedance any time soon (if anything may consolidate the two into one of the higher-end open headsets), so I don't think an amp is super necessary. Similarly, I am unlikely to be upgrading from the FiiO E10K in the foreseeable future as well. I should note that I'm not really interested in a software-only solution.
> 
> G5/E5 - I don't really need the portability features of the E5 at the moment, but that is more subject to change than my class of headphones. I am interested in the prospect of using one of them as a complete solution and replacing my E10K, is the sound really comparable/superior?
> U3 - Has a cheap look so I probably won't go that route.
> U7 - Caught my eye previously. I don't think the weaker headphone amp would be an issue for my needs. Thoughts on the U7 vs U7 MKII? My motherboard has the SupremeFX S1220A codec on top of what I believe is the Realtek ALC1220, and uses Sonic Studio which I am not a fan of, especially when compared to my old DX's Xonar Audio Center. I wonder if ASIO driver support is actually dropped in the MKII.


 
  
 External sound card use software to process headphone surround sound, so in some ways they are a "software solution".
 Cyperlinks PowerDVD (version 15, $35) will easy match if not better movie surround sound, over the Creative or Asus solutions.
 MPC-HC (Media Player Classic Home Cinema) or VLC player are free video players do great with everything but Blu-ray.
 https://www.codecguide.com/download_kl.htm
  
 The E10K  amplifier can easily drive the HD598 or PC350, so no read need to replace the E10K (for now).
 You might consider selling off the PC 350 and just get an add-on mic for the HD598.
  
 I guess Asus dropped Dolby Headphone for the newer version (MK II) of the U7 so they can cut back royaliy payments to Dolby.


----------



## Yethal

purpleangel said:


> I would say an Astro Mix-amp is a good choice for gaming consoles (optical connection).
> But for a a Win PC you have the option of using a sound card with a USB connection.
> So I say check out the USB sound cards from Creative Labs, better DAC chip and more powerful headphone amplifier, then the Mix-amp.
> I would prefer (for an external) an Asus sound card, like the U7, but it's headphone amplifer is not as powerful as the newer Creative external cards.


 
 Newest generation of Mixamps (the TR series) can be used on PC as an external USB soundcard too. They even came up with their own configuration software. Dunno whether the quality of the amp improved though.
  


evshrug said:


> If you want to stick with the FiiO E10k, then Darin's Out Of Your Head software is probably the best software-only DSP. Darin's CanJam demos were with movies, and that's probably the best use of the software. it should be do-able. Creative also sells a software suite that includes headphone surround.


 
 OOYH also has a low-latency gaming preset. Mad tested it a few months ago (impressions here and here)
  


zorgon said:


> Should've specified I primarily watch movies with the Sennheiser HD 598 Special Edition (50ohm). I also have the PC 350 Special Edition (150ohm) for gaming/voip, but movies far and away have higher priority for me. I don't really see myself upgrading to a headphone tier with higher impedance any time soon (if anything may consolidate the two into one of the higher-end open headsets), so I don't think an amp is super necessary. Similarly, I am unlikely to be upgrading from the FiiO E10K in the foreseeable future as well. I should note that I'm not really interested in a software-only solution.


 
 You might want to just sell the headset and buy a HD598 compatible microphone such as this one.


----------



## Zorgon

yethal said:


> You might want to just sell the headset and buy a HD598 compatible microphone such as this one.


 
  
 Missing the point of my post, that was to be more of an afterthought; I am well aware of various boom mic options.


----------



## Yethal

zorgon said:


> Missing the point of my post, that was to be more of an afterthought; I am well aware of various boom mic options.


 

 Yes, sorry for that. I think we forgot to include Sennheiser GSX1000 on the recommended hardware list. So far the reviews are mostly positive.


----------



## Change is Good

I'm about to start streaming some Nioh. Watch me get owned.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> Yes, sorry for that. I think we forgot to include Sennheiser GSX1000 on the recommended hardware list. So far the reviews are mostly positive.




Or why not just get an Asus Xonar DG or DGX and buy a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and an amp of his choice? (I use a Cayin C5 portable amp) that would be a great external "soundcard"


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Or why not just get an Asus Xonar DG or DGX and buy a Schiit Modi 2 Uber and an amp of his choice? (I use a Cayin C5 portable amp) that would be a great external "soundcard"


 

 Because these are PCI-E soundcards so they won't fit into every gaming setup. Although these are good soundcards and can be further improved by adding an external DAC/Amp.


----------



## Zorgon

Yeah I already covered that I am coming from a Xonar DX, but my new system is mITX with only one PCI-Express expansion slot that is occupied by graphics card.


----------



## rudyae86

zorgon said:


> Yeah I already covered that I am coming from a Xonar DX, but my new system is mITX with only one PCI-Express expansion slot that is occupied by graphics card.


 
  


yethal said:


> Because these are PCI-E soundcards so they won't fit into every gaming setup. Although these are good soundcards and can be further improved by adding an external DAC/Amp.


 
 oh I didn't read that, fair enough lol. Do most ITX boards come with only 1 PCI-Express slot? I also doubt they have 2  X16 PCI-Express slots because if it did, then you could use one of them for the sound card.


----------



## Zorgon

rudyae86 said:


> oh I didn't read that, fair enough lol. Do most ITX boards come with only 1 PCI-Express slot? I also doubt they have 2  X16 PCI-Express slots because if it did, then you could use one of them for the sound card.


 
  
 Sometimes I forget which forum I'm posting in, but all mITX form factor motherboards follow an industry standard specification that physically limits the board to 1 PCI-Express slot.


----------



## rudyae86

zorgon said:


> Sometimes I forget which forum I'm posting in, but all mITX form factor motherboards follow an industry standard specification that physically limits the board to 1 PCI-Express slot.


 

 oh ok. Yeah I am not really into the whole mITX and would rather do mATX because more flexibility. Like other's suggested, Creative Labs Omni, Asus U3 or Sennheiser's GSX 1000 would be your more likely choice.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> oh I didn't read that, fair enough lol. Do most ITX boards come with only 1 PCI-Express slot? I also doubt they have 2  X16 PCI-Express slots because if it did, then you could use one of them for the sound card.



They all have only one PCIe x16 slot.

Back when I built my current pc (mini-itx of course) I came to the conclusion that I won't ever use the additional lanes anyway and I'd like it to be small. Now I have a cat-sized workstation PC and no regrets. Mini-ITX for life!


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> They all have only one PCIe x16 slot.
> 
> Back when I built my current pc (mini-itx of course) I came to the conclusion that I won't ever use the additional lanes anyway and I'd like it to be small. Now I have a cat-sized workstation PC and no regrets. Mini-ITX for life!




Yeah, I'm thinking of going small build the next time around. I have a full tower 760T which is nice and plenty of room to work with but it takes up a lot of room. I was planning on going SLI as well but I'm always upgrading so staying single GPU is best for me.

I'm tempted to do a small build with the upcoming Ryzen CPUs and get an X7 for my audio set up. Hmmm.... Upgrade itch is really itchy...


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking of going small build the next time around. I have a full tower 760T which is nice and plenty of room to work with but it takes up a lot of room. I was planning on going SLI as well but I'm always upgrading so staying single GPU is best for me.
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to do a small build with the upcoming Ryzen CPUs and get an X7 for my audio set up. Hmmm.... Upgrade itch is really itchy...





TBH there aren't that many reasons to use a full size ATX board anyway. All devices that we used to plug into PCIe slots are now USB (sound cards, network cards, capture cards) or M.2 (SSD drives). You can even run 20+ core Xeons and have 64GB of ram on a Mini-ITX board now.

Current PC (left) vs previous PC (right). And it's possible to go even smaller.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> TBH there aren't that many reasons to use a full size ATX board anyway. All devices that we used to plug into PCIe slots are now USB (sound cards, network cards, capture cards) or M.2 (SSD drives). You can even run 20+ core Xeons and have 64GB of ram on a Mini-ITX board now.
> 
> Current PC (left) vs previous PC (right). And it's possible to go even smaller.




That is true though but there is one thing ATX and larger cases have an advantage....better cooling and less throttling down of CPU and GPU which ITX sufferes in that aspect because of the cases airflow limitations.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> That is true though but there is one thing ATX and larger cases have an advantage....better cooling and less throttling down of CPU and GPU which ITX sufferes in that aspect because of the cases airflow limitations.


 

 That issue can be partially remedied by using AIO watercooling on the CPU. My CPU (six-core) currently sits at >40C with 15 virtual machines running simultaneously. At 100% CPU load I'm barely past 50C. GPU sits at 40C during normal usage and at ~60C when gaming. And I managed to achieve such temps in a case the size of a cat.


----------



## freshmind

My ZXR is coming on Monday. I must say, I am very excited. 
  
 I've tried Phoebus, good on stereo(better than even modi/magni) but its surround features and Dolby didn't suit my taste. It leans too much on Dolby. Drivers are bit nasty too (most people using old drivers on Win 10, by changing .dll)
  
 I only tried once SBX and CMSS-3D, but it was a mid-tier Creative card. ... It blowed up my mind, I understood why everyone says SBX beats Dolby in every aspect.  
  
 Now I only want the same SBX features , and a bit better stereo quality, something like Phoebus. 
  
 ZXR is top tier Creative Card. I think I couldn't go further with a sound card which have DSP-HRTF in it. 
  
 Evidences, reviews, recorded sounds show that most probably it will be my heaven, but I'm still nervous. 
  
 I hope my expactations will be met.


----------



## voltize

Hey, i'm happy being a part of this community now after lurking for some months! 
 I'm looking for a new headphone to use for gaming and music. My budget goes up to 500€. I'm currently using the Teufel Aureol Real (which is kind of non-existent on this site?) paired with the V-Moda BoomPro and the Sound Blaster X7. The Aureol Real sounds relatively neutral and I quite like the sound, but the build quality is bad and I have problems with the positioning while gaming.
 Since I already own the BoomPro, I'd like to get a pair with a standard 3.5mm exchangeable cable. I looked around quite a bit but didn't find many cans with that connector. The best pair I found is the Fidelio X2, but it seems to be kinda V-shaped. So I was wondering if there are any "better" headphones that match my criteria? Or should I just get a pair that sounds good to me and buy another mic?


----------



## Yethal

voltize said:


> Hey, i'm happy being a part of this community now after lurking for some months!
> I'm looking for a new headphone to use for gaming and music. My budget goes up to 500€. I'm currently using the Teufel Aureol Real (which is kind of non-existent on this site?) paired with the V-Moda BoomPro and the Sound Blaster X7. The Aureol Real sounds relatively neutral and I quite like the sound, but the build quality is bad and I have problems with the positioning while gaming.
> Since I already own the BoomPro, I'd like to get a pair with a standard 3.5mm exchangeable cable. I looked around quite a bit but didn't find many cans with that connector. The best pair I found is the Fidelio X2, but it seems to be kinda V-shaped. So I was wondering if there are any "better" headphones that match my criteria? Or should I just get a pair that sounds good to me and buy another mic?


 
 BoomPro can be plugged into pretty much anything with an appropriate adapter. Mimic Cables sells adapters for AKG headphones (here), for other brands You'd either have to PM TJ (guy who runs Mimic Cables) or PETEREK (OG modder and DYI guy here on Head-Fi).


----------



## L J EDM

yethal said:


> BoomPro can be plugged into pretty much anything with an appropriate adapter. Mimic Cables sells adapters for AKG headphones (here), for other brands You'd either have to PM TJ (guy who runs Mimic Cables) or PETEREK (OG modder and DYI guy here on Head-Fi).




How do these adapters attach to the AKG K612? I can't see where they would attach, allowing the v-moda boom mic to be used.


----------



## Yethal

l j edm said:


> How do these adapters attach to the AKG K612? I can't see where they would attach, allowing the v-moda boom mic to be used.


 

 They don't. AKG K612 has a hardwired cable. This adapter is meant to be used with headphones that use a mini XLR connector such as AKG K702 AKG K712 or AKG K7XX.


----------



## L J EDM

yethal said:


> They don't. AKG K612 has a hardwired cable. This adapter is meant to be used with headphones that use a mini XLR connector such as AKG K702 AKG K712 or AKG K7XX.




Ahh, I see. Mod mic it is then, thanks.


----------



## voltize

yethal said:


> BoomPro can be plugged into pretty much anything with an appropriate adapter. Mimic Cables sells adapters for AKG headphones, for other brands You'd either have to PM TJ (guy who runs Mimic Cables) or PETEREK (OG modder and DYI guy here on Head-Fi).


 
  
 Thanks for the info! $30 (+shipping to the EU) seems to be pretty expensive though. I could probably buy a new mic for that money.


----------



## Yethal

voltize said:


> Thanks for the info! $30 (+shipping to the EU) seems to be pretty expensive though. I could probably buy a new mic for that money.


 

 Yeah, that may not be the best idea. However if You do now any modders/cable makers in Your region You can ask them for a quote on a similar adapter, may be cheaper in the long run.


----------



## expontherise

How come the V-Moda M-100 isn't rated for gaming? Is it due to them being a bit heavy?
  
 I don't notice a disadvantage when 'sound-whoring' with them.. They give me pretty good resolution for gaming and produce directional sounds fairly well. Maybe height not so much, but level angle I can hear very well.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Someone snag this for gaming!

http://www.head-fi.org/t/836036/sony-sa3000/0_30#post_13260458


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yethal said:


> TBH there aren't that many reasons to use a full size ATX board anyway. All devices that we used to plug into PCIe slots are now USB (sound cards, network cards, capture cards) or M.2 (SSD drives). You can even run 20+ core Xeons and have 64GB of ram on a Mini-ITX board now.
> 
> Current PC (left) vs previous PC (right). And it's possible to go even smaller.




Lian-Li TU-100/200?

I like the idea of that case, but I'd like it to be longer and have a rear fan slot as well. What do you have inside?

But now that mini 1080s are out...

I'm just waiting for the eventual Mastercase 2.I've been betting on Coolermaster to make an ITX version since last year. The Mastercase 3 is close to ideal, but I want it in ITX form. I would love a T version like the Mastercase 5T, with that sexy handle, but I don't think that's coming anytime soon. CM has been slow ion additional accessories for the 3.


----------



## Balleratt

So I finally got a pair of the newest edition of the A40 TR + Mixamp Pro TR for cheap, I actually only wanted the Mixamp but the asking price was pretty good anyways. I paired the Mixamp with a Fidelio X2, great headset for both gaming and music in my ears! They actually sounded pretty good via. the PS4 controller too! Playing Battlefield 1 is eargasmic, especially with the Mixamp and fooling around with the EQ-settings is a very flexible feature to have.
  
 I never expect much from virtual surround stuff, like Sony Gold and the Platinum (I have tried these for a couple of weeks after having the Gold since last summer) Turning this feature on..the soundstage collapses and everything sounds like ****..like the worst kind of separation ever. Just horrible. If I just run them like normal(no VSS),only turning surround on in Battlefield 1 audio settings..well lets just say that it sound ALOT better and it gives a much better surround experience .
  
 I did expect the Mixamp to sound better then the the GOLD/Platinum for some reason though. But I was really disappointed to say it the least. Thin,echoing, metallic ****storm of sound. Separation is horrible and everything sounds flat. There is no way anyone actually uses the Dolby mode on this amp? Is it? 
  
 Apart form a totally useless gimmick "Dolby feature", I really enjoy the Mixamp Pro + Fidelio X2 combo! Playing BF1 agains is a blast, as long as I keep the ****ty Dolby crap off that is. Now I just have to wait for my seperate Boom Mic that is on its way!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You sure you're not confusing Dolby Off, with On? Because turning on Dolby expands the soundstage significantly. Tuirning it off, everything sounds like it's coming from a straight horizontal line. Also, people love to judge things immediately instead of giving them like a week for your ears to adjust. ALSO, making sure BF is set to theater mode/5.1 for sound, or whatever is close to that. As well as the PS4 sound settings to be on Dolby/Bitstream.


----------



## Yethal

mad lust envy said:


> Lian-Li TU-100/200?
> 
> I like the idea of that case, but I'd like it to be longer and have a rear fan slot as well. What do you have inside?
> 
> But now that mini 1080s are out...


 

 It's the TU100. I'd probably go with a case even smaller if such cases were actually available (Dan Cases A4X doesn't count since it's near impossible to buy)
  
 CPU: I7-6800K
 MoBo: Asrock X99 mini-itx
 RAM: Corsair 2133Mhz 32GB (forgot the exact model name)
 Cooling: Cooler Master Seidon 120V (watercooling is a must with this little space)
 SSD: Samsung 950 Pro NVME (I chose an M.2 drive because of space constraints not because of performance)
 PSU: Corsair SFF 600W
 GPU: GTX 750Ti (Again, space was #1 factor)
  
 CPU runs below 40C on idle and 40-50C on full load. GPU during regular use runs at 40C and goes up to 65C on full load so it's not _that_ bad.
  
 Zotac has a mini 1080 that would fit perfectly inside.


----------



## Balleratt

mad lust envy said:


> You sure you're not confusing Dolby Off, with On? Because turning on Dolby expands the soundstage significantly. Tuirning it off, everything sounds like it's coming from a straight horizontal line. Also, people love to judge things immediately instead of giving them like a week for your ears to adjust. ALSO, making sure BF is set to theater mode/5.1 for sound, or whatever is close to that. As well as the PS4 sound settings to be on Dolby/Bitstream.




All settings on PS4 is correct. In-game settings are set to "Headphone" and "Surround" . And yes, the Dolby button is illuminated wich indicates ON yes?

I hear alot of the same bad sounding image as with the VSS-mode on the Sonys, its a mess. I will try to mess around with the audio settings in the game later today.


----------



## Yethal

balleratt said:


> All settings on PS4 is correct. In-game settings are set to "Headphone" and "Surround" . And yes, the Dolby button is illuminated wich indicates ON yes?
> 
> I hear alot of the same bad sounding image as with the VSS-mode on the Sonys, its a mess.


 

 Set it to Home Theater and Surround and try again.


----------



## Balleratt

There are no such thing as a "Theater" mode. 

I just have to try them all i guess..

These are the settings If i remember correctly:
Small
Medium
Large speakers
Headphones
Logitech Pro G
War Tapes

Stereo/Surround.


----------



## Yethal

balleratt said:


> There are no such thing as a "Theater" mode.
> 
> I just have to try them all i guess..
> 
> ...


 

 That's weird, BF4 had a dedicated Home Theater mode. No idea why they cut it. Try Large Speakers first, Dolby Headphone is supposed to recreate the sound of a Home Theater setup using a pair of headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

soundsgoodtome said:


> Someone snag this for gaming!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/836036/sony-sa3000/0_30#post_13260458


 
 I would get them but my car needs parts . I heard of them before but never really read in detail about them, until now. Very interesting headphones.....
  
 Better than MA900 in terms of soundstage?


----------



## Balleratt

Yethal: Yeah I remember that too, I will try later. I've been working all night long, so gotta have sone shut-eye. Been going strong for 24 hours now xD

Thanks alot for the assist!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

balleratt said:


> All settings on PS4 is correct. In-game settings are set to "Headphone" and "Surround" . And yes, the Dolby button is illuminated wich indicates ON yes?
> 
> I hear alot of the same bad sounding image as with the VSS-mode on the Sonys, its a mess. I will try to mess around with the audio settings in the game later today.




Incorrect. It must NOT be set to headphones. Dolby Headphone is supposed to take a 5.1 sound source to convert to DH. By using Headphone, you're using the WRONG source. Headphone is for people using standard headphones on a standard headphone output that is plain stereo.


----------



## Balleratt

Well this thread here describes exactly what is going on really:
http://forums.astrogaming.com/index.php?threads/mixamp-pro-tr-dolby-sounds-terrible.197078/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LtNF1i2eSwg&feature=youtu.be

Imagine 64 player Battlefield with that echo thrown in the mix. It is just unbearable.

I had the first generation A50 for a couple of years, and the Dolby-mode on that simple amp sounded better actually.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That being said, you were using the wrong sound setting. ANything after that, well, I dunno. Dolby Headphone is SUPPOSED to sound very different from what you're used to in a normal headphone situation. It's mimicking speakers in a room. That takes getting used to. But to say it sounds flat and whatnot, that is not what it's supposed to be.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll post and example vid I linked to on the first post. It is already pre-mixed with DH, so TURN OFF Dolby on your mixamp when listening to this. And no, do NOT turn ON Dolby to compare. This video is already converted, and not a 5.1 Doplby signal, so it won't work that way.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcp9mNbhtFo[/VIDEO]

This should give you a better idea.


----------



## Evshrug

soundsgoodtome said:


> Someone snag this for gaming!
> 
> http://www.head-fi.org/t/836036/sony-sa3000/0_30#post_13260458



Hey sounds, are these the MA900 precursors? Pretty well regarded IIRC. These aren't the Qualia, right?




balleratt said:


> All settings on PS4 is correct. In-game settings are set to "Headphone" and "Surround" . And yes, the Dolby button is illuminated wich indicates ON yes?
> 
> I hear alot of the same bad sounding image as with the VSS-mode on the Sonys, its a mess. I will try to mess around with the audio settings in the game later today.



Uh, ok, I see what is happening here. Turning on "Headphone" and "surround" mode in game settings creates it's own VSS, which you are then doubling the processing with Dolby Headphone from the Mixamp. To make matters worse than merely doubling the effect, the output from "headphone" mode in BF1 is simply 2-channel stereo, so instead of Dolby Headphone working with 5.1-7.1 channels of sound it's only working with 2. Applying Dolby headphone to a 2-channel mix has always created a reverb-y mess (other processors do much better trying to create the out-of-your-head sensation of two speakers in front of you, not been Dolby's strong suit IMO).

So, again
BF1 is taking audio positions, and using it's own VSS to create a 2-channel headphone VSS mix. That processed 2-channel Mix is again being processed by Dolby Headphone to try to sound like 2 speakers in front of you. Try going for the least processing inside BF1 as possible.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

Evshrug correct. They are a bit better than thr MA900 in music imo. However they are tuned with a bright tilt just a hair, I'd say similar to a velour padded akg 6-701 series. However if you like classical or jazz or well mastered the mids are very well done. When watching movies the sub bass does gave rumble and punch but music dept they sound bass light (if you're used to bassy phones that is).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've heard they are shrill sounding and sterile. Probably a good recipe for competitive sound whoring, but not for casual use, at least for those like who like a fuller tone.


----------



## Soundsgoodtome

I'd say it depends on the music. The odd thing is I've used a mdr-z1r exclusively for the last 2-3 months which they've been chocolate deliciously smooth operator but phones like hd800 doesn't sound shrill to me when I went back to them; same as goes with the sa3000 but I've only had them for a month now.

Sound decent for movies straight out of an xbox one controller too.


----------



## jmk720

What about blue mic newest headphones?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hey guys. Last night due to either the Sound Blaster software or Windows changing my settings when I unplugged my headphones and later plugged them back in, I accidentally gave my HD 600s a blast at full volume with the Omni.
  
 I can't hear anything obviously wrong with them, but I'm slightly worried I might have done some damage that isn't manifesting in an obvious manner. Do you think the Omni has enough power to have done any damage?


----------



## Fegefeuer

The HD 600 can handle up to 200mw
  
 no you gotta figure out what the Omni achieves at 300 Ohms. I doubt it can deliver 200mw.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

fegefeuer said:


> The HD 600 can handle up to 200mw
> 
> no you gotta figure out what the Omni achieves at 300 Ohms. I doubt it can deliver 200mw.


 

 Thanks, I'll try and find out.


----------



## Benn Beckman

hey guys, i am new on audio, and i plan to buy open back headphone for music, gaming, and movies.. 
from what i read, maybe dt990 meet those criteria. but there are some problem that holding me back:
First, how harsh the treble on beyer dt990, compare to msr7 (actually I have ws1100 which according to people is a fun version of msr7 with bass and mid backwards)
second, I don't have an amp, is there any portable amp that can drive dt990 properly under 200$?


----------



## Fegefeuer

It seems at a load of 300 Ohm it delivers 10,33mw. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Could have told already that this thing is underfiring the HD 600 anyway which requires 20mw to reach 110db cleanly but that's really subpar.
  
 http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/creative-soundblaster-omny-surround.php#rw13


----------



## Napalmhardcore

fegefeuer said:


> It seems at a load of 300 Ohm it delivers 10,33mw. Not sure if I'm reading this correctly. Could have told already that this thing is underfiring the HD 600 anyway which requires 20mw to reach 110db cleanly but that's really subpar.
> 
> http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/creative-soundblaster-omny-surround.php#rw13


 

 So I'm in no danger then? That's good to know. I bought a Little Dot Mkiii to drive them with a little more authority, but sadly it has to go back due to a couple of issues. Mind you, on the Omni I only run the HD 600s between 20%-26%. So In terms of raw volume I'm not pushing the Omni, though I realise dynamics should improve with a better amp. I have pretty sensitive ears and don't really enjoy having the volume particularly high.
  
 Thanks for the help.


----------



## Balleratt

mad lust envy said:


> Incorrect. It must NOT be set to headphones. Dolby Headphone is supposed to take a 5.1 sound source to convert to DH. By using Headphone, you're using the WRONG source. Headphone is for people using standard headphones on a standard headphone output that is plain stereo.


 
  
 I tried every audio setting both stereo and surround in the game and Dolby on the Amp activated...if Astro defines this as how games are supposed to sound, then the Dolby setting is just something I could never depend on. What you gain in somewhat lackluster surround you loose in depth, clarity and overall soundstage. It has the echo, the thin can sound and what not. I will try that youtube video on my PS4 Pro now 


evshrug said:


> Hey sounds, are these the MA900 precursors? Pretty well regarded IIRC. These aren't the Qualia, right?
> Uh, ok, I see what is happening here. Turning on "Headphone" and "surround" mode in game settings creates it's own VSS, which you are then doubling the processing with Dolby Headphone from the Mixamp. To make matters worse than merely doubling the effect, the output from "headphone" mode in BF1 is simply 2-channel stereo, so instead of Dolby Headphone working with 5.1-7.1 channels of sound it's only working with 2. Applying Dolby headphone to a 2-channel mix has always created a reverb-y mess (other processors do much better trying to create the out-of-your-head sensation of two speakers in front of you, not been Dolby's strong suit IMO).
> 
> So, again
> BF1 is taking audio positions, and using it's own VSS to create a 2-channel headphone VSS mix. That processed 2-channel Mix is again being processed by Dolby Headphone to try to sound like 2 speakers in front of you. Try going for the least processing inside BF1 as possible.


 
  
 So I should choose anything BUT headphones in the settings, game audio in stereo and feed it to the amp with the Dolby setting on? I have tried every possible setting, but whatever Astro is doing to the signal when pressing that Dolby button...I dont agree. My ears definitely won't accept such poor overall soundstage by a long shot. Battlefield 1 simply does not sound good on this amp with the Dolby weirdness on. That was somewhat expected since I never really liked the VSS-fuzz anyways.
  
 EDIT: OK, watched the provided YouTube link from Mad Lust Envy..and YES! Thats more like it, not thin can echo and distorted crap sounding imaging like BF1 and Dolby on.


----------



## Balleratt

Finally..I made progress!
  
 I switched from Dolby Bitstream to Linear PCM.. I could not believe my own ears when I quickly jumped back in-game battle. No muffled sounds, clarity and rawness from weapons and bullets everywhere. And the echo? Well the echo is now present where one would expect echo to occur! No shallow,metallic,reverbing of the sound, making it unbearable.
 The console is noe feeding raw PCM stereo into the Mixamp, everything sound alot better and more natural... I am getting more confused along the way. Oh well, as long as it sounds heavenly better than before 
  
 I actually had to check if the Dolby mode was activated  The soundstage is now more like how it was when I had surround and headphones activated in-game, but with the Dolby-mode off! But with significantly expanded soundstage! Too bad I am off to another graveyard shift


----------



## Napalmhardcore

balleratt said:


> Finally..I made progress!
> 
> I switched from Dolby Bitstream to Linear PCM.. I could not believe my own ears when I quickly jumped back in-game battle. No muffled sounds, clarity and rawness from weapons and bullets everywhere. And the echo? Well the echo is now present where one would expect echo to occur! No shallow,metallic,reverbing of the sound, making it unbearable.
> The console is noe feeding raw PCM stereo into the Mixamp, everything sound alot better and more natural... I am getting more confused along the way. Oh well, as long as it sounds heavenly better than before
> ...


 

 If you have switched to Linear PCM, I'm pretty sure you aren't using the surround capability at all as the Mixamp can only process Dolby (or at least that's the way it works on the older versions, which leads me to this question...). Which version of the Mixamp do you have? I've not been following this conversation from the start. I read some reviews of the TR Mixamp and one user that said he has owned more than one generation said the new one sounds horrible, echoey and tinny in comparison to his older ones. He also said that there were other users on the Astro forums with the same complaint.
  
 Edit: Also found this after a brief Google search.


----------



## Balleratt

I have the Mixamp Pro TR, and I've been reading on the Astro forums and there are alot of people complaining on the exact same thing as I've mentioned in this thread. The Mixamp is doing something to the signal regardless of Bitstream or Linear PCM. The difference is that I dont like it at all when on Bitstream, it is completely useless. 
  
 I also linked to that video on the previous page, it is exactly like that. But take every single sound in the game and add echo og lots of reverb.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

balleratt said:


> I have the Mixamp Pro TR, and I've been reading on the Astro forums and there are alot of people complaining on the exact same thing as I've mentioned in this thread. The Mixamp is doing something to the signal regardless of Bitstream or Linear PCM. The difference is that I dont like it at all when on Bitstream, it is completely useless.
> 
> I also linked to that video on the previous page, it is exactly like that. But take every single sound in the game and add echo og lots of reverb.


 

 Yeah, seems to be a lot of people over there not happy with the TR. There's even a petition for them to fix the sound.


----------



## Balleratt

Yup, something sure is amiss on the latest model of this amp.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

balleratt said:


> Yup, something sure is amiss on the latest model of this amp.


 

 May be worth staying on linear PCM stereo for now and hope Astro releases an update. Sadly, in my experience Astro has a tendency to deny all knowledge of any problems. There's one guy on the forums that is actually helpful. If you email them directly they are absolutely hopeless.


----------



## Balleratt

That is my impression, So I wont be holding my breath


----------



## rudyae86

I have been checking out more 3D Binaural Audio and found one that is kind of creepy lol.
  

  
 I hope  game developers really start going back into implementing 3D audio. 
  
 I mean we are already seeing it in some games especially for VR but we want more!


----------



## Find the Door

As someone thats owned every model of mixamp up to the TR before finally growing up to the X7 I can assure you that the TR is a special kind of broken. The TR sounds like everything is coming through a pillow, has nasty echo and on treble peaks has a nasty hollow metallic sound.

I could only stand it for a week as I knew something was amiss due my prior experience with Dolby headphone. Dolby headphone can be fantastic if executed properly which the TR does not. The 2014 mixamp does just fine.

I will say though I now own HD800-S, a fully upgraded Sparkos x7 Limited Edition, and later today will have a Schiit Jotunheim to round it all off. Audio is a rabbit hole - I'd say a pair of k7xx's with an x7 (with Sparkos single upgrades) would knock most everyone's socks off.

You can do a lot better than the TR Mixamp. What really pissed me off is that Astro continually denies that the sound signature has any fault and claims that Dolby signs off on the TRs Dolby mix and that they have no involvement. This is after years of producing a solid Dolby headphone offering in their other Mixamps. It's cost cutting for sure - as was the move to make the amps function with one console (sucker those into buying two skus.)

A great gaming headset that really got me into another level of sound quality was the Beyerdynamic MMX 300.

Just my two cents


----------



## Balleratt

I did consoder the X7, but it does not support external Mic input on consoles, no? The pricetag did put me off somewhat, but when I found out about the mic situation it was was completely off the table. 

Too bad since it certainly looks like a fantastic device!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If people who have own prior Mixamps are saying the TR is broken, that may be why Dolby Headphone sounds wrong to you. Your experiences are definitely far from what is to be expected of the DSP. Case is closed. TR is borked.


----------



## Find the Door

balleratt said:


> I did consoder the X7, but it does not support external Mic input on consoles, no? The pricetag did put me off somewhat, but when I found out about the mic situation it was was completely off the table.
> 
> Too bad since it certainly looks like a fantastic device!





The x7 does support voicechat though I use it everyday with my PS4 Pro via the Creative W2 USB dongle. I use my Modmic plugged directly into the x7 for a microphone. 



mad lust envy said:


> If people who have own prior Mixamps are saying the TR is broken, that may be why Dolby Headphone sounds wrong to you. Your experiences are definitely far from what is to be expected of the DSP. Case is closed. TR is borked.




I would say yes that the TR is a substandard piece of hardware - no question.


----------



## Balleratt

Find the Door: You got my attention, how does that work in terms of balancing voice and game volume on the fly? This is where I love the Astro, its just so convenient and smooth!
  
 Where does the bluetooth device come in in this equation? Are you pairing this with the PS4 as the audio input device while keeping the console connected via optical cable to the x7 ? Images of this setup?


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> I hope  game developers really start going back into implementing 3D audio.
> 
> I mean we are already seeing it in some games especially for VR but we want more!


 
  
 Agreed, I'd love to see more developers getting on-board or returning to 3D surround. One of my all-time favorite games was Thief: Deadly Shadows from the original Thief trilogy. That franchise used EAX processing to get surround sound more than 15 years ago. Give us more surround sound!
  
 I am loving Overwatch's implementation of Dolby Atmos. No it's not perfect, but for something that comes free with the game and doesn't require additional hardware it's an excellent offering.


----------



## ElectronicTonic

balleratt said:


> Find the Door: You got my attention, how does that work in terms of balancing voice and game volume on the fly? This is where I love the Astro, its just so convenient and smooth!
> 
> Where does the bluetooth device come in in this equation? Are you pairing this with the PS4 as the audio input device while keeping the console connected via optical cable to the x7 ? Images of this setup?



The PS4 sees the BT-W2 as a USB headset and you pair it with the x7 via Bluetooth. You can then adjust chat and game volume via an app on android or iOS.

 I just picked up the X7 myself to replace an older Astro mixamp. I'm really liking the improved audio experience, so far.


----------



## kellte2

electronictonic said:


> The PS4 sees the BT-W2 as a USB headset and you pair it with the x7 via Bluetooth. You can then adjust chat and game volume via an app on android or iOS.
> 
> I just picked up the X7 myself to replace an older Astro mixamp. I'm really liking the improved audio experience, so far.


 
 It is a huge step up in fidelity from the Mixamp, and assuming you get the BT-W2 transceiver, you'll lose no features coming from the Mixamp. I'll concede that the chat/game mixing isn't as easy on the X7 as it is with the Mixamp (using the app via Bluetooth can be clunky/slow, so I normally have my iPhone cable attached permanently to make quick adjustments), but on the balance, it was a huge upgrade for me.


----------



## Yethal

kellte2 said:


> It is a huge step up in fidelity from the Mixamp, and assuming you get the BT-W2 transceiver, you'll lose no features coming from the Mixamp. I'll concede that the chat/game mixing isn't as easy on the X7 as it is with the Mixamp (using the app via Bluetooth can be clunky/slow, so I normally have my iPhone cable attached permanently to make quick adjustments), but on the balance, it was a huge upgrade for me.


 

 Also, the sound can be further improved by either replacing the op-amps or adding an external dac/amp to the chain (or both if you're cheeky).


----------



## mbyrnes

How are the Sparkos duals treating you?


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> How are the Sparkos duals treating you?


 

 I finally heard the bass guitar in Ghost Of Tom Joad so I'd say pretty good.


----------



## mbyrnes

No rush, but how long till you can get a review together? Really looking forward to your impressions, since you have had the Singles for a bit now, so you will have a much better understanding of what going from just singles to complete swap does.


----------



## Yethal

No idea, the iDSD BL took me almost two weeks but that thing has bazillion different features and the final review ended up being seven pages long, op-amps should take much quicker.


----------



## Balleratt

electronictonic said:


> The PS4 sees the BT-W2 as a USB headset and you pair it with the x7 via Bluetooth. You can then adjust chat and game volume via an app on android or iOS.
> 
> I just picked up the X7 myself to replace an older Astro mixamp. I'm really liking the improved audio experience, so far.


 
  

 Thanks! That sounds about as convenient as it gets with the plug & play BT-dongle  I might consider shelling out some hard earned bucks towards Creative then!


----------



## ElectronicTonic

balleratt said:


> Thanks! That sounds about as convenient as it gets with the plug & play BT-dongle  I might consider shelling out some hard earned bucks towards Creative then!




No problem. As stated above, it isn't as easy adjusting the chat and game mix on the X7 as on a mixamp, but I'll take better audio over convenience any day.


----------



## TeeReQs

balleratt said:


> Thanks! That sounds about as convenient as it gets with the plug & play BT-dongle  I might consider shelling out some hard earned bucks towards Creative then!


 
 If you can, I'd wait until it goes on sale. @mbyrnes mentioned that Massdrop is doing a deal on the standard edition right now for $299.99 at the lowest drop price. Occasionally Creative will do a deal on the limited for $349.99.
  
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/creative-sound-blaster-x7-amp-dac-combo


----------



## Balleratt

I think I am better off buying it for retail price in Norway anyways. Regarding import taxes and such, and not to menyikoner the 5 year warranty  I am tracking prices in Norway just to be sure


----------



## TeeReQs

balleratt said:


> I think I am better off buying it for retail price in Norway anyways. Regarding import taxes and such, and not to menyikoner the 5 year warranty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That makes sense. Didn't realize you were in Norway. Hope you find one for a good deal!


----------



## Find the Door

Today - my life changed foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 I was so displeased with the HD800-S (black revision) that I wanted to sell them.  The x7 Limited Edition did it absolutely no justice (even with Sparkos full upgrade) but oh my goodness when I hooked up my Schiit Jotunheim.  I seriously have no words - there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever to anything I've ever heard.

 Could be the balanced cable hookup
 Could be the Audioquest Power/RCA cables (had them laying around from old retail job)
 Could be the HD800-S'
 Could be the x7
 Could be the OP-AMP upgrades
 Could be the Audioquest Optical Cable
  
  
 Who the hell cares!  This is definitely the pinnacle of sound for me - I have no words. When I say wow I friggin mean WOWOWOWOWOOOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOW!


----------



## Yethal

find the door said:


> Today - my life changed foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> 
> I was so displeased with the HD800-S (black revision) that I wanted to sell them.  The x7 Limited Edition did it absolutely no justice (even with Sparkos full upgrade) but oh my goodness when I hooked up my Schiit Jotunheim.  I seriously have no words - there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever to anything I've ever heard.
> 
> ...


 

 It was probably a combination of all those things, glad You like the new setup.


----------



## Fegefeuer

X7 alone isn't an excellent fit with the HD800. However the DAC part is better and thus can be made good use of with an external amp.


----------



## Evshrug

Put up a (not perfect, but pretty smooth) Titanfall 2 Gauntlet speed run with a final time of 37 seconds, 40 milliseconds. Anyone interested if I stream the first few campaign levels?

I'm EvShrug on Twitch too!


----------



## hilyou

First time checking out this thread since early 2015, was wondering what's the current situation in terms of virtual surround for gaming?
  
 Last I checked, the Sound Blaster X7 was the best option with the least compromises.
  
 Has there been any updates to the product or anything that's come out since then that is competitive with the X7?


----------



## rudyae86

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16050&AID=11051853&PID=8167397&
  
 So uh...
  
 What do you guys think of these? Interesting how Monoprice is releasing product after product of stuff that is within the latest trend lol.


----------



## raband

hilyou said:


> Has there been any updates to the product or anything that's come out since then that is competitive with the X7?


 
  
 Only other "interesting" thing I can think of is the Sennheiser GSX1000 (VSS DSP - PC only) and the upcoming Smyth Realiser A16
  
 X7 is still "King of the Hill" so to speak, with a fair bit of discussion around op-amp rolling lately, as well as using it to feed "better" AMPS.


----------



## rudyae86

So I found something very interesting right now at OCN
  
 Take a read at this
  
Steam Audio
  
 This is primarily for PC but just shows that they are really and I mean....REALLY taking audio more seriously more than ever before.
  
 I guess you could say because of VR this is what is pushing it but who cares, at least we are getting great/better audio baked into our future games.
  
 Which makes me think.....wouldn't devices like Creatives, Asus, and others lose business? Like, who needs them when we have so many DAC's and Amps out there...


----------



## raband

rudyae86 said:


> Which makes me think.....wouldn't devices like Creatives, Asus, and others lose business? Like, who needs them when we have so many DAC's and Amps out there...


 
  
 Sounds like it'll only be implemented in games that are developed for it.
  
 Whereas any game that has a 5.1, Surround Sound, 7.1 option (which is pretty much most of them) etc should work with the existing hardware.


----------



## Fegefeuer

that's grew news Rudyae!


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16050&AID=11051853&PID=8167397&
> 
> So uh...
> 
> What do you guys think of these? Interesting how Monoprice is releasing product after product of stuff that is within the latest trend lol.


 

 Tagline of these headphones should be "...So a pair of Audeze and a pair of HiFiMans hook up in a bar"
  
  


rudyae86 said:


> So I found something very interesting right now at OCN
> 
> Take a read at this
> 
> ...


 

 Rudyae, You're forgetting that one of the reasons 3D audio died 15 years ago (OpenAL) was because it was more difficult to implement. FMod (current audio stack used in most games) is pretty much plug' n' play with pre-baked support in most game engines.
 EDIT: According to Valve's github page a version of Steam audio for FMod and Wwise is in development which potentially means console implementation.


----------



## Find the Door

hilyou said:


> First time checking out this thread since early 2015, was wondering what's the current situation in terms of virtual surround for gaming?
> 
> Last I checked, the Sound Blaster X7 was the best option with the least compromises.
> 
> Has there been any updates to the product or anything that's come out since then that is competitive with the X7?




I'd say the x7 is a great dac/amp that drives most headphones well but you should definitely look into Sparkos Opamps as it's a noticeable upgrade. I'd also recommend a different amp to pair with it as well (Schiit Jotunheim is a great entry).


----------



## Azurik

Speaking of the X7 am i right in thinking that since the last update, it is now possible to send the sbx surround signal via optical out to another amp? Meaning I keep the vss but send it down to another device before outputting it down my headphones?

Is there anything else like it? Mixamp or DSS for example? 

I remember the mixamp 5.8 had also an optical out. Does it work the same? Ps4 to the TX unit via optical in, optical out to external amp and then to headphones, completely ignoring the little Rx receiver? The little receiver wouldnt be necessary anymore as the TX unit has the Dolby headphone on/ off button and the little receiver on the bass boost button. 

I'm looking for something to mix vss into the sound and pass it on to another DAC/amp via optical and I think (unless I'm right with my mixamp 5.8 theory) it's only the X7.


----------



## kellte2

azurik said:


> Speaking of the X7 am i right in thinking that since the last update, it is now possible to send the sbx surround signal via optical out to another amp? Meaning I keep the vss but send it down to another device before outputting it down my headphones?
> 
> Is there anything else like it? Mixamp or DSS for example?
> 
> ...




Yes, the X7 can output SBX to another device, whether it's an amp or a different DAC. 

An amp wouldn't accept optical out since that's a digital signal, but it could accept line out via RCA.


----------



## Yethal

azurik said:


> Speaking of the X7 am i right in thinking that since the last update, it is now possible to send the sbx surround signal via optical out to another amp? Meaning I keep the vss but send it down to another device before outputting it down my headphones?
> 
> Is there anything else like it? Mixamp or DSS for example?
> 
> ...


 

 Optical out on the Mixamp 5.8 was just a passthrough, it didn't have the capability to send a premixed two channel signal to an external DAC. So yyeah, You need the X7 (or the Smyth Realizer)


----------



## rockytopwiz

So the mixamp can be combined with an amp and still pass vss through rca but you have to use the dac in the mixamp. You can't use a dac/amp combo and pass vss through optical out like you could with the x7. Is that right?


----------



## Yethal

rockytopwiz said:


> So the mixamp can be combined with an amp and still pass vss through rca but you have to use the dac in the mixamp. You can't use a dac/amp combo and pass vss through optical out like you could with the x7. Is that right?


 

 That's correct.


----------



## Azurik

yethal said:


> Optical out on the Mixamp 5.8 was just a passthrough, it didn't have the capability to send a premixed two channel signal to an external DAC. So yyeah, You need the X7 (or the Smyth Realizer)




Ok thanks. It's just that I use a chord mojo for gaming directly via ps4 optical. 

I was looking to mix vss into the chain by adding something to it. If it's only the X7 then I wouldn't need the mojo as the X7 is powerful enough for my cans but im not too keen on sbx and would prefer DH (older version as the new mixamp TR sounds horrible)

Looks like I will be sticking to my mojo and good stereo sound.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> That's correct.




This is WRONG! Yethal, I'm disappointed! You can send the optical vss signal to a DAC, then amp. I do this with the Schiit Modi. So X7>Modi>MZ2.

I've never compared the difference, so if it's an improvement, I have no clue. It's far more difficult to test this. I probably should with Blu-rays and certain scenes. Actually I could do SACDs with the 5.1 mix. Humm, maybe a project for this week!


----------



## kellte2

mbyrnes said:


> This is WRONG! Yethal, I'm disappointed! You can send the optical vss signal to a DAC, then amp. I do this with the Schiit Modi. So X7>Modi>MZ2.
> 
> I've never compared the difference, so if it's an improvement, I have no clue. It's far more difficult to test this. I probably should with Blu-rays and certain scenes. Actually I could do SACDs with the 5.1 mix. Humm, maybe a project for this week!




I think he was referring to the mixamp. Can't pass through VSS from Mixamp to DAC, but you can do so with the X7.


----------



## mbyrnes

kellte2 said:


> I think he was referring to the mixamp. Can't pass through VSS from Mixamp to DAC, but you can do so with the X7.


 
 That would make sense. Yethal is probably the most knowledgeable of us all on the X7!


----------



## kellte2

mbyrnes said:


> That would make sense. Yethal is probably the most knowledgeable of us all on the X7!


Don't sell yourself short. You did some valuable digging re: op amps processing audio for the line out, too.


----------



## mbyrnes

kellte2 said:


> Don't sell yourself short. You did some valuable digging re: op amps processing audio for the line out, too.


 
  
 Appreciate that. Funny thing is I was contacted to review Burson V5i op amps. They have my info, but no clue if and when they will be sending them out. Once I hopefully get them, the review shouldn't take too long. May be a good option for those looking to upgrade at a cheaper price point than the Sparkos. I have the option to color my sound with tube swaps, but many don't. If the sonic differences are there, it will be pretty cool to see what people go with. Fingers crossed!


----------



## helios660

evshrug said:


> I had to set the PS4 to PCM output instead of Dolby bitstream, but yeah it worked pretty great over optical! I think I used it with USB too without having to change any settings, but honestly I forget for sure. I can try it out tonight, I've got another new toy to test out anyway ^_^


 
 Do you just hook up the mic to the controller when using the Mojo for audio on PS4?


----------



## iAudio365

Can the Sennheiser GSX 1000 drive mr speaker ether flows? Does any one know? 

I'm also curious as to whether it can be paird up with the mojo as I keep seeing it touted everywhere as an amp so I could pair with the mojo right for the dac?


----------



## Yethal

iaudio365 said:


> Can the Sennheiser GSX 1000 drive mr speaker ether flows? Does any one know?
> 
> I'm also curious as to whether it can be paird up with the mojo as I keep seeing it touted everywhere as an amp so I could pair with the mojo right for the dac?


 

 Dunno about the flows but I know that the GSX 1000 doesn't have a digital out so it can't be used with an external dac.


----------



## iAudio365

yethal said:


> Dunno about the flows but I know that the GSX 1000 doesn't have a digital out so it can't be used with an external dac.




So it must have a dac built in, just keep hearing its an amp. I might get one just for gaming and try it out


----------



## Azurik

I still don't get why sennheiser has not made the gsx console friendly. I mean the Dolby/ DTS license fees can't be that expensive can they? Or is there other issues preventing console compatibility? I know it does stereo just like the g5 on consoles but I think they missed a big opportunity to give astro/ turtlebeach a run for their money!


----------



## Yethal

azurik said:


> I still don't get why sennheiser has not made the gsx console friendly. I mean the Dolby/ DTS license fees can't be that expensive can they? Or is there other issues preventing console compatibility? I know it does stereo just like the g5 on consoles but I think they missed a big opportunity to give astro/ turtlebeach a run for their money!


 

 Yes they can, unfortunately but Dolby's fees aren't the main issue here.
 The main issue is that GSX1000 uses USB for communication. PS4 can only output stereo signal over USB and Xbox requires a DRM chip from Microsoft to even be able to use any USB audio device (the chip itself costs 35$ so that's the price of XB1 compatibility and the reason Astro has separate Mixamps for PS4 and Xbox One)
  
 For proper console compatibility the GSX100 would need to have either optical input (with Dolby Digital decoding, so fees) or HDMI input (so fees to the HDMI consortium). It would also need a second input for chat (USB on PS4, 3.5mm on Xbox) and a balance mixing.


----------



## rudyae86

iaudio365 said:


> So it must have a dac built in, just keep hearing its an amp. I might get one just for gaming and try it out




First time I hear they are calling the GSX an "amp".

Same way they call Astro Mix Amp an "Amp"....

Lol


----------



## iAudio365

azurik said:


> I still don't get why sennheiser has not made the gsx console friendly. I mean the Dolby/ DTS license fees can't be that expensive can they? Or is there other issues preventing console compatibility? I know it does stereo just like the g5 on consoles but I think they missed a big opportunity to give astro/ turtlebeach a run for their money!




I would say because PC has far more capability both from a technical and audio side of things, updating drivers etc cost money on consoles even releasing patches for games costs a shed load of cash to push out updates on consoles.

They will probably be doing updates to the firmware etc and console will not support this and again if they did it would simply cost senheiser to much every time they wanted to do this.

Over all PC has a much greater user/player base than all of xbox and ps combined. 

I guess their are many reasons for this.

Just go check out /r/pcmasterrace or /r/buildapc console players are literally switching to pc in droves, microsoft also caught onto this fact a little while ago and started intergrating console game purchases with windows 10 so you can buy say gears of war on console and play it on pc as well using all the graphical settings pc has to offer.

I personally do not know a single person (personally) that plays a console anymore they all switched. I guess senheiser just did the basic numbers as well as looking at the confined enviroments console offers and decided not to waste their time. 

Just my theory.


----------



## iAudio365

rudyae86 said:


> First time I hear they are calling the GSX an "amp".
> 
> Same way they call Astro Mix Amp an "Amp"....
> 
> Lol




Even sennheiser themselves refer to it as "gaming audio amp" not dac/amp etc. thats whay I was curious.


----------



## Yethal

"Amp" is a universally understood word, "dac" is audiophilespeak. People outside the audio community may not know what a DAC is but they will surely have at least some sort of an idea what an amp is.


----------



## iAudio365

yethal said:


> "Amp" is a universally understood word, "dac" is audiophilespeak. People outside the audio community may not know what a DAC is but they will surely have at least some sort of an idea what an amp is.




Fair point.


----------



## AxelCloris

iaudio365 said:


> Can the Sennheiser GSX 1000 drive mr speaker ether flows? Does any one know?
> 
> I'm also curious as to whether it can be paird up with the mojo as I keep seeing it touted everywhere as an amp so I could pair with the mojo right for the dac?


 
  
 The GSX 1000 can make the Ether Flow loud, but it doesn't adequately drive the headphone to give it enough body. I prefer the sound from the Mojo to that of the GSX. That said, the GSX's processing has been solid so far.


----------



## mbyrnes

Well it is looking like the Monoprice Monolith M1060 is a pretty good LCD2 knockoff, and at $300, affordable to most gamers. Few reviews up in the main thread for them. After burn in, it appears they are pretty close (from an LCD2 owner). I was/am literally a C hair from ordering them. I just DO NOT need another headphone! Biggest complaint so far is the MMCX connector, which I have never experienced personally. Another bonus is they are lighter than the LCD2. 
  
 Anyone tempted, been following them?
  
 On another note, I am burning in my HD6XX for a few days non stop. I don't think I'll ever care for their signature, but they must be better than what I have experienced so far. They are in the basement playing, so I don't have to listen to them, lol. Hopefully they open up some more, with a few dozen more hours on them. I'll recheck in a few days and see if they are even close to the magical headphones I have read about for years. 
  
 Anyone else check out the Tom Clancy Ghost Recon Wildlands demo? Played through it yesterday and it wasn't bad. Feels a lot like MGS5 to me, with more options for tackling a base. The sound was pretty good, maybe some things TOO good. Distant radios playing in houses or cars can be heard all over the place. There were a few times I thought it was music out my window, than getting slightly closer revealed it was in game. Bird sounds, gun shots, and sound whoring were all very good. Don't think I'll pick it up at launch, but will when it gets discounted. I am trying to get through Skyrim in time to pickup Mass Effect Andromeda a month from now. My backlog is just insane, but some games you can pickup and drop no problem. Skyrim is not that kind of game so it is almost full throttle right now.


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> Well it is looking like the Monoprice Monolith M1060 is a pretty good LCD2 knockoff, and at $300, affordable to most gamers. Few reviews up in the main thread for them. After burn in, it appears they are pretty close (from an LCD2 owner). I was/am literally a C hair from ordering them. I just DO NOT need another headphone! Biggest complaint so far is the MMCX connector, which I have never experienced personally. Another bonus is they are lighter than the LCD2.
> 
> Anyone tempted, been following them?
> 
> ...


 
 I really haven't been totally impressed with my 6XX either, but I don't think they are fully burned in, and only thing I've tried them on is the X7. 
  
 I played about 20 minutes of Wildlands during the closed beta, but haven't tried it again. I couldn't get into it. AI seemed a bit dumb. I enjoyed the division for awhile, but not wildlands. Maybe it's the setting, or the gameplay. I might try it out again tonight.


----------



## lenroot77

teereqs said:


> I really haven't been totally impressed with my 6XX either, but I don't think they are fully burned in, and only thing I've tried them on is the X7.
> 
> I played about 20 minutes of Wildlands during the closed beta, but haven't tried it again. I couldn't get into it. AI seemed a bit dumb. I enjoyed the division for awhile, but not wildlands. Maybe it's the setting, or the gameplay. I might try it out again tonight.




The hd650's(Hd6xx's) are a bit picky with amps, especially with solid state amps. I haven't been impressed with them out of the X7 either(they sound thin to me)... out of a Vali2, Jotunheim or Bottlehead Crack it's a much different story. It's possible you may not care for the actual sound signature, but I assure you coming out the the X7 they are not at their best.


----------



## TeeReQs

lenroot77 said:


> The hd650's(Hd6xx's) are a bit picky with amps, especially with solid state amps. I haven't been impressed with them out of the X7 either(they sound thin to me)... out of a Vali2, Jotunheim or Bottlehead Crack it's a much different story. It's possible you may not care for the actual sound signature, but I assure you coming out the the X7 they are not at their best.


 
 That's what I've heard. Almost bought a Crack during the black friday sale, but couldn't pull the trigger.


----------



## iAudio365

axelcloris said:


> The GSX 1000 can make the Ether Flow loud, but it doesn't adequately drive the headphone to give it enough body. I prefer the sound from the Mojo to that of the GSX. That said, the GSX's processing has been solid so far.




Hey thanks so much once again Axel to the rescue with all the answers. Haha.

So will it give the etherflows or AEON's which I'm getting soon as well surround sound for gaming? And when you say they sound loud through it, is it just a mess? Maybe something I should avoid and just stick to my mojo? 

I'm using my mojo at the moment running via optical audio pushing out the sound from my motherboard which is also surround sound surpreme fx built in sound card. I just need a source to convert it, or like gsx 1000 just usb it straight in and by pass all that and just give me surround.

But to be honest I'm starting to think the mojo is all I need as it just sounds awesome especially in overwatch with dolby atmos is incredible. So I don't know if I will ever hear a massive difference to what I'm already hearing.


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> The hd650's(Hd6xx's) are a bit picky with amps, especially with solid state amps. I haven't been impressed with them out of the X7 either(they sound thin to me)... out of a Vali2, Jotunheim or Bottlehead Crack it's a much different story. It's possible you may not care for the actual sound signature, but I assure you coming out the the X7 they are not at their best.




I would hope my $2,000 tube amp is good enough! Actually I've heard rave reviews with the MZ2 and HD650. It's not my setup, that I'm positive on, as I bypass the X7 completely for music these days. X7 and a tube amp should be a great combo for the HD650 as well. The HD800/S are also reviewed to be a wonderful combo with the MZ2. 

Either way, I'm burning my HD6XX in to about 100-150 hours before relistening to them. I'm 99% sure I'll sell them, but I want to be 100% sure of their real sound first.


----------



## Evshrug

azurik said:


> Speaking of the X7 am i right in thinking that since the last update, it is now possible to send the sbx surround signal via optical out to another amp? Meaning I keep the vss but send it down to another device before outputting it down my headphones?
> 
> Is there anything else like it? Mixamp or DSS for example?
> 
> ...



Nothing else like the Creative X7 right now. I have a DSS, DSS2, the only output on those is the headphone jack. The Mixamp 5.8 (own one of those too, check out my overview video on YouTube) has an optical output but I didn't mention it, because it just passes through the home theater speaker mix without applying any DSP. Currently, the X7 is the only DSP that will output a headphone VSS through line-out or optical-out FOR CONSOLES (a few PC sound cards do this).



rockytopwiz said:


> So the mixamp can be combined with an amp and still pass vss through rca but you have to use the dac in the mixamp. You can't use a dac/amp combo and pass vss through optical out like you could with the x7. Is that right?



The Mixamp 5.8 doesn't have an RCA output, but otherwise you are right that the Headphone VSS only is output from the headphone jack.

The X7 gives you the most options, which is ironic because it is also the most self-capable (other than the Smyth) and gives you the least reason to try connecting other amps and DACs (at least for headphones). Sure, I sometimes use my Mojo + Liquid Carbon amp connected to the X7's output, but when my Mojo's battery dies, I usually just plug my headphones straight into the X7, which is even easier now to not bother re-wiring in my Mojo + LC (and using that combo in another room) after upgrading to the Burson OpAmps.




mbyrnes said:


> That would make sense. Yethal is probably the most knowledgeable of us all on the X7!



You wound me good sir! I don't talk as much, but I did write the first X7 review on Head-Fi and Amazon (anywhere?), and (my friend) Yethal and I would probably tie in a trivia game about the X7. That said, all respect to Yethal for basically being the go-to community resource for tech support and FAQ's — unpaid, for free. I used to do that every day, but then I got a job in IT and suddenly spending my free time that way became a lot less fun.




helios660 said:


> Do you just hook up the mic to the controller when using the Mojo for audio on PS4?



Nah, I just use a Blue Microphone's Snowball. Plugging something into the controller will at least steal both the chat input and output, so to hear your friends you would have to have a mess of splitters and adapters. Using a USB desktop mic (like the Blue) is much simpler, because all the chat and game output is sent through the PS4's optical out and you get to keep your controller wireless.


----------



## mbyrnes

Sorry Evshrug, I'm well aware of your knowledge, but you don't comment as often anymore! I used probably for a reason my friend! Glad you stopped by!

If my setup wasn't all in the same place, just the X7 for gaming and music (especially with op amps upgraded), would be a very nice setup in the grand scheme of things. Big fan of the DAC chip in it, preferred over many "better" DACs. I still use the X7>MZ2 and even the X7 alone more than many would think. It's a different sound alone, one that I really like at times. 

Running <$500 headphones, I doubt I'd bother with an external amp. Sennheiser's HD lineup isn't great for gaming, and the are plenty of headphones less picky that are great at music AND gaming. The X7 has a pretty darn good amp in it. I'd be completely happy with the X7 and AKG K7XX for $500 if spending a lot of money on this hobby wasn't feasible. Hell in a few weeks I'll have the PC37X, and that may be a great setup for $420.


----------



## Evshrug

The MicroZotl (if I spelled that correctly) is a SUPER impressive Amp!

These days I mostly contribute through product reviews, so I'm not mad if I'm not particularly seen as the FAQ guy. Got some more reviews in the pipeline actually: Shanling M1 DAP, Katana monitor soundbar (with headphone surround!), and a whole bunch of videos.


----------



## raband

> Sennheiser's HD lineup isn't great for gaming, and the are plenty of headphones less picky that are great at music AND gaming.


 
  
 The 500's, 700's and 800's series are fantastic for gaming and music.
  
 The 700's I use at the moment with the X7.
  
 The 600's series are the only ones I leave aside and only use for music.


----------



## lenroot77

mbyrnes said:


> I would hope my $2,000 tube amp is good enough! Actually I've heard rave reviews with the MZ2 and HD650. It's not my setup, that I'm positive on, as I bypass the X7 completely for music these days. X7 and a tube amp should be a great combo for the HD650 as well. The HD800/S are also reviewed to be a wonderful combo with the MZ2.
> 
> Either way, I'm burning my HD6XX in to about 100-150 hours before relistening to them. I'm 99% sure I'll sell them, but I want to be 100% sure of their real sound first.




Yup you've got a great amp for the above mentioned headphones, guess they are just not your cup of tea.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Well it is looking like the Monoprice Monolith M1060 is a pretty good LCD2 knockoff, and at $300, affordable to most gamers. Few reviews up in the main thread for them. After burn in, it appears they are pretty close (from an LCD2 owner). I was/am literally a C hair from ordering them. I just DO NOT need another headphone! Biggest complaint so far is the MMCX connector, which I have never experienced personally. Another bonus is they are lighter than the LCD2.
> 
> Anyone else check out the Tom Clancy Ghost Recon Wildlands demo? Played through it yesterday and it wasn't bad. Feels a lot like MGS5 to me, with more options for tackling a base. The sound was pretty good, maybe some things TOO good. Distant radios playing in houses or cars can be heard all over the place. There were a few times I thought it was music out my window, than getting slightly closer revealed it was in game. Bird sounds, gun shots, and sound whoring were all very good. Don't think I'll pick it up at launch, but will when it gets discounted. I am trying to get through Skyrim in time to pickup Mass Effect Andromeda a month from now. My backlog is just insane, but some games you can pickup and drop no problem. Skyrim is not that kind of game so it is almost full throttle right now.


 

 My Shures use an MMCX connector, this plug is the micro-USB of headphone connectors.
  
 Played the Wildlands beta. Seems rather uninteresting, like another Division/GTA Online/Just Cause clone. It seems Ubisoft is at the "fix that later" stage of development when they stopped caring about non-critical bugs, seriously, LOD pops, lip-sync facial animations, spawns, a lot of stuff is broken in that game. I played it for a few hours with a friend (also a QA tester) and we spent the first hour listing bugs that we found.
  
  


evshrug said:


> You wound me good sir! I don't talk as much, but I did write the first X7 review on Head-Fi and Amazon (anywhere?), and (my friend) Yethal and I would probably tie in a trivia game about the X7. That said, all respect to Yethal for basically being the go-to community resource for tech support and FAQ's — unpaid, for free. I used to do that every day, but then I got a job in IT and suddenly spending my free time that way became a lot less fun.


 
 Don't worry Evs, U da boss. U always will be.


----------



## AxelCloris

iaudio365 said:


> Hey thanks so much once again Axel to the rescue with all the answers. Haha.
> 
> So will it give the etherflows or AEON's which I'm getting soon as well surround sound for gaming? And when you say they sound loud through it, is it just a mess? Maybe something I should avoid and just stick to my mojo?
> 
> ...


 
  
 The GSX is a great gaming DAC/amp. It's highly revealing of details and positional cues which lends exceptionally well to competitive gaming. It can be a bit too revealing at times for complete immersion, but I've still been enjoying the games I've tried with it. Planars like the Ether Flow love current, and even though the Flow is efficient enough to be driven from a phone or compact DAC/amp, it still benefits from a quality amp. Sennheiser seems to have focused on the DAC and processing in the GSX while keeping the price reasonable, so the amp isn't the strongest I've come across. I should try running the GSX into an amp later to see if that helps.
  
 I also run optical from my computer to the Mojo. I have a Xonar DG that serves as my Dolby Headphone encoder and that sends a mixed stereo signal digitally to the Mojo, and the Mojo handles the rest. It's a great combination. Overwatch's Dolby Atmos implementation is exceptional considering that it comes included with the game and every PC on the market could take advantage of it if the user wanted. Atmos has better height cues than Dolby Headphone, something I noticed while testing this weekend. That was through the Mojo.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> My Shures use an MMCX connector, this plug is the micro-USB of headphone connectors.
> 
> Played the Wildlands beta. Seems rather uninteresting, like another Division/GTA Online/Just Cause clone. It seems Ubisoft is at the "fix that later" stage of development when they stopped caring about non-critical bugs, seriously, LOD pops, lip-sync facial animations, spawns, a lot of stuff is broken in that game. I played it for a few hours with a friend (also a QA tester) and we spent the first hour listing bugs that we found.
> 
> ...



Ironically, I hope to start twitch streaming some MGSV Phantom Pain this coming Sunday, midday!




axelcloris said:


> Atmos has better height cues than Dolby Headphone, something I noticed while testing this weekend. That was through the Mojo.




Well, it should! Dolby Headphone is entirely 2D, a circle with no height/azimuth/Z-axis cues encoded into it at all! Blizzard paid a bit more to get Dolby Atmos into their game, I wish it was the norm instead of the exception. Perhaps it will start a trend


----------



## mbyrnes

raband said:


> The 500's, 700's and 800's series are fantastic for gaming and music.
> 
> The 700's I use at the moment with the X7.
> 
> The 600's series are the only ones I leave aside and only use for music.




Well actually forgot about the Hd5xx series, they are good for gaming. 558 wasn't good for music IMO. The 598 I'll find out soon enough with the PC37X using the same drivers. 

HD700 I've never heard, HD800/S is above $500 and I'd grab an external amp. 

Granted I'm not a huge fan of Sennheiser's sound, and I'm positive my views aren't shared by a majority.


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> Yup you've got a great amp for the above mentioned headphones, guess they are just not your cup of tea.




Still burning in the 6XX. I'll put some hours on it before I completely write them off. They sound slow and distorted compared to other cans I own. Could be they're not burned in enough.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Well actually forgot about the Hd5xx series, they are good for gaming. 558 wasn't good for music IMO. The 598 I'll find out soon enough with the PC37X using the same drivers.
> 
> HD700 I've never heard, HD800/S is above $500 and I'd grab an external amp.
> 
> Granted I'm not a huge fan of Sennheiser's sound, and I'm positive my views aren't shared by a majority.


 

 The drivers are the same but the tuning is slightly different. Ironically, the change in tuning makes the PC37X more enjoyable with music than stock HD598 due to increased bass presence.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> The drivers are the same but the tuning is slightly different. Ironically, the change in tuning makes the PC37X more enjoyable with music than stock HD598 due to increased bass presence.


 
  
 The lack of bass has been the big problem with the 5XX series for me. Once I saw you and Evshrug post in your reviews that they fixed that, I had to try them. I don't game online much with others, so having a headset ready to go is just easier and better for me than the mod-mic. It takes about 10 seconds to swap headphones, but grabbing the mod-mic and getting that setup when it usually isn't, is a major PIA. 
  
 Ordered the Monoprice M1060s a few minutes ago. I am far too curious to not buy them, and I am loving planar sound. Not sure when they will get here, I imagine early next week as I live on the East Coast (They're in California). So very soon I will have EIGHT full sized headphones. Any idea what an AKG K702 65th Anniversary (without box) is worth these days? I can't find a single sale of them the past few years. I have a shorter cable I bought for them that I will toss in, and overall they have been babied to death. The DT-990 will be hitting the for sale section here very soon. Need to just pack all of this stuff up and get it listed.


----------



## Yethal

I used to run HD598 with ModMic attached. I had to twist the cables together to avoid the spider-web of cables around my face. I admit that ModMic 5.0 fixed some of the cable management problems and I applaud AntLion team for that but both PC37X and COP with the Beyerdynamic mic are much more convenient.


----------



## mbyrnes

yethal said:


> I used to run HD598 with ModMic attached. I had to twist the cables together to avoid the spider-web of cables around my face. I admit that ModMic 5.0 fixed some of the cable management problems and I applaud AntLion team for that but both PC37X and COP with the Beyerdynamic mic are much more convenient.




The biggest problem is what headphone to use. I go between a few when gaming, and for just music listening, the mic is in the way. Now if I was playing with a group most nights, it'd be easier to deal with. Having the HEX always setup isn't convenient, even with 2 cables, and the long one with the mic attached, switching cables takes too long. 

I don't mind cables much, but just having a headset seems FAR easier to me. Especially if the PC37X is a fun/competitive headset that doesn't give up much.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> The biggest problem is what headphone to use. I go between a few when gaming, and for just music listening, the mic is in the way. Now if I was playing with a group most nights, it'd be easier to deal with. Having the HEX always setup isn't convenient, even with 2 cables, and the long one with the mic attached, switching cables takes too long.
> 
> I don't mind cables much, but just having a headset seems FAR easier to me. Especially if the PC37X is a fun/competitive headset that doesn't give up much.


 

 That's why I consider the Beyerdynamic microphone the best cable-replacement microphone type out there. When You don't need it just unplug the microphone leaving the cable intact.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Best Headphones for 90% Movies?  Budget $1000-3000 for headphones
  
  My end game is I want a WOW system here.
  
 So.. I purchased the Smyth A16 adn will arrive later this year...  So why not replace my headphones at the same time?!  I currently have the AKG K712 and using a Musical Fidelity tube amp and a $150 Dolby digital processor that died on me.  Im ready to move up a level or two.   
  
 I am looking for very clear vocals... Sometimes I have a really hard time hearing the vocals.   I really would like to get that hard hitting subwoofer like sound too.  But I tend to not like sloppy bass, but more tight, deep bass.   Wide soundstage but distinct location of sources.   Smyth recommends Stax 2160 line or the Sennheiser HD 800 .. which I have not heard either one..but 1 thing I did notice was that the recommendation was primarily based on soundstage, etc. and not handling bass.. And dont get me wrong..I want it all.. I want pristine and accurate highs (not tinny or harsh..probably a fast tweeter for clarity of vocals), solid mid bass and solid LFE level bass.    Smyth recommends using their DAC and amp in their unit to drive your headphones, which I will do but typically I find better results using a separate amp in most cases.  I listen a little to music from time to time like a blue ray from Eric Clapton, Eagles, or even some hard rock at times like Metallica. Not sure if sibilance would be corrected by the A16 or not?   Im ok with open headphones.. they are not loud enough to wake my wife in the other room next door. (she runs a fan when she sleeps), but a sub would definitely wake her up and not sure if a bass shaker would do the same or not..never used one.
  
 I do have to say, I have a lot of trouble hearing dialog during movies so that is a big consideration and so is soundstage and bass for LFE
  
 Here is a partial list but VERY OPEN to More suggestions!!  (or taking off some of the below ones)..not in any particular order...:
  
 Hifiman HE-1000 or 1000 v2 
 HifiMan Edition X v2
 Mr. Speakers Ether Planar ?
Sennheiser HD-800S (not the HD800)
 Sony Z1R
Audeze LCD‑3
Audeze LCD-X
Stax SR-007 Mk2  
 Stax SR-L700
Oppo PM-1
Focal Utopia (if I can increase my budget)
  
 Im thinking that the planar-magnetic headphones might be better in my application, but not sure.  Cant get out of my head what the Smyth A16 is going to do to any headphones ..But I have heard that great sounding cans only makes the A8 and now the A16 sound better..
  
 Let me know your thoughts...


----------



## lenroot77

michaeljames99 said:


> Best Headphones for 90% Movies?  Budget $1000-3000 for headphones
> 
> My end game is I want a WOW system here.
> 
> ...





My advice find a local meet/store and listen to as many as you can. From there you will have address wether or not you need an additional amp and which one depending on the headphone chosen.

Only a handful of the above headphones you listed have been discussed here with virtual surround.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I dont have any stores in Indianapolis Indiana that carry in stock these levels.  All of them stock headphones under $500.  Rest are special order


----------



## AxelCloris

michaeljames99 said:


> I dont have any stores in Indianapolis Indiana that carry in stock these levels.  All of them stock headphones under $500.  Rest are special order


 

 There's always the option of going to regional meets, like lenroot mentioned. There's a local meet just south of Dayton, OH and a huge trade show in Chicago in April. The drive to Ohio would be easier, but AXPONA would have a larger selection to demo. If you can make it to Los Angeles, there's CanJam SoCal in March. CanJams tend to have the biggest collection of headphones because they're dedicated to personal audio. Shows like AXPONA are a combination of personal and 2-channel, typically heavily favoring the latter.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I go to Dayton alot.  Where south of Dayton is there a meet?  Whats it called?


----------



## AxelCloris

michaeljames99 said:


> I go to Dayton alot.  Where south of Dayton is there a meet?  Whats it called?


 
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/t/800108/ohio-meeting-columbus-cincy-cleveland/90#post_13282795


----------



## mbyrnes

michaeljames99 said:


> I go to Dayton alot.  Where south of Dayton is there a meet?  Whats it called?




The nice thing is, you have some time until the A8 releases. Plenty of time to hopefully listen and shorten the list yourself. I do own the HEX V2, and I'm extremely happy with them for gaming/movies. They throw a pretty huge soundstage with quick and DEEP bass. They don't have the TH-X00 Ebony volume of bass, but I don't feel it's lacking at all. 

I will shortly have the Monoprice M1060, which is an LCD2 clone attempt. Early reviews say the bass and mids are very similar, but soundstage is improved over the LCD2 (bass is slightly not as clean). No owners have burned them in completely yet, as they have been in customers hands since Saturday. 

I will say this with much confidence. Reading reviews and impressions only gets you so far. I personally didn't prefer the HEK over the HEX, happily saving me a ton of money. One man's gold is another man's trash. At a few hundred bucks, trying a headphone isn't a huge deal. Spending $1,000+, I have a feeling you'll want to love your choice, and losing $100s reselling them is painful. 

Definitely look into meets and shows. Meets are typically smaller, but better for listening. Shows depend on how each vendor sets up. A local Philly meet is where I heard almost every planar headphone (ones I missed were actually there, no time!). I had NO INTENTION of buying a new headphone when I went, but after hearing the HEX I had to own it. Never would have guessed beforehand, and of all the attending headphones, HEX was nowhere on my radar. It's important to listen and make your own judgements. If not possible, subscribe to threads of possible candidates. You'll get a fairly good idea of the sound without hearing it yourself. Not perfect, but things like bass and treble are frequently talked about and compared. 

Good luck, this can be a really fun time for you. Lock in some tracks and possible VSS clips, to demo every headphone with the same material. Take good notes on each, as you'll probably still have to compromise with whatever headphone you choose.


----------



## lvl8pidgey

Do you have any information regarding the newer ad900x's and their headset equivalent adg1x's? I'd like to know if you'd consider them as competitive as the 700s? any changes to the other ratings as well? as highly rated as the 700s @Mad Lust Envy 
  
 great post, very informative. thanks


----------



## rudyae86

lvl8pidgey said:


> Do you have any information regarding the newer ad900x's and their headset equivalent adg1x's? I'd like to know if you'd consider them as competitive as the 700s? any changes to the other ratings as well? as highly rated as the 700s @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> 
> great post, very informative. thanks




He doesn't really buy and review headphones anymore. It's been a while. Maybe someone in here may have the older version or the headset but you might be able to find more info around other threads, which I think the AD series might ha e their own.


----------



## lvl8pidgey

Alright thanks!rudyae86


----------



## Change is Good

I'll be streaming Horizon soon as the block comes off if anyone wants to check it out. I'm assuming it will be midnight ET.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> I'll be streaming Horizon soon as the block comes off if anyone wants to check it out. I'm assuming it will be midnight ET.


 
 I'll definitely check it out. How do you like the game?


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> I'll definitely check it out. How do you like the game?




Only about an hour in, but I'm definitely engaged and interested to learn more about the world. Dialogue, voice acting, and character introduction is top notch. Gameplay is super smooth and stealthy, too, but I've yet to engage in any real combat outside the training tutorial (which I just finished). Taking a break and getting back on in about 30 minutes. Hopefully I can stream then.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Only about an hour in, but I'm definitely engaged and interested to learn more about the world. Dialogue, voice acting, and character introduction is top notch. Gameplay is super smooth and stealthy, too, but I've yet to engage in any real combat outside the training tutorial (which I just finished). Taking a break and getting back on in about 30 minutes. Hopefully I can stream then.


 
 Sweet! I wasn't really interested in the game, but seems like it's getting good reviews


----------



## Change is Good

teereqs said:


> Sweet! I wasn't really interested in the game, but seems like it's getting good reviews


 
  
 I've had my eye on this game since it was announced a couple years back. It looked good and I was getting it, regardless, but the early raving reviews were quite surprising. I wasn't expecting Killzone's devs to knock it out the park in their first attempt at an RPG. Bravo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Outside of using the KSC35 at work, I don't think I've put on pair of headphones in a long, long time.

That said, this LCD-2 clone from monoprice sounds interesting to me. VERY.

I must be missing a lot of great stuff lately.


----------



## Change is Good

mad lust envy said:


> I must be missing a lot of great stuff lately.




Not really. Most of the recent trending "great stuff" is priced over $1000 these days. Only the Aeon is lower priced, but still pricey.


----------



## cskippy

@Mad Lust Envy I think you'll like it with the Audeze leather free pads.  It's my best gaming headphone now.  It's dethroned the HE-6 for gaming.


----------



## MichaelJames99

Did you ever compare the HEX v2 to the Hifiman 1000 v2 for movies?


----------



## mbyrnes

mad lust envy said:


> Outside of using the KSC35 at work, I don't think I've put on pair of headphones in a long, long time.
> 
> That said, this LCD-2 clone from monoprice sounds interesting to me. VERY.
> 
> I must be missing a lot of great stuff lately.




For under $375, you can grab the M1060 and Vegan pads, and literally have a lighter LCD2. I had to jump on them for that price. I'll be ordering vegan pads here shortly. Don't even want to listen to them stock. Ignorance is bliss, and leather pads blow!




michaeljames99 said:


> Did you ever compare the HEX v2 to the Hifiman 1000 v2 for movies?




I did not. The issue I had most with the HEK was it was far too resolving for music. I listen to a lot of crappy recorded rock music, and it brought out things I don't want to hear. Strictly for movies, I'd probably go HEK as they're recorded far better than a lot of music. They're better headphones for sure, just not for my intended use. They're also far harder to drive, so an external amp with some juice may be needed. I listen exceptionally loud, and on my amp (MZ2) that another headfier had, it was maxed out. Granted this was a meet and louder than a typical room. I've never maxed out my amp at home, but I've been close with a few headphones. I really prefer easy to drive headphones, and the HEX at 104db/mW versus 90db/mW of the HEK is a very substantial difference. I don't think I'd ever own another headphone that demands that much power. That's me though, so understand I'm far outside the norm with how I listen.




cskippy said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> I think you'll like it with the Audeze leather free pads.  It's my best gaming headphone now.  It's dethroned the HE-6 for gaming.




Glad to see you here! I've been reading your post on the M1060 thread. You're the culprit who pushed me to order them! Thanks for your honest review and measurements.


----------



## mbyrnes

Question MLE. If reviews are done by people in the thread, can you update the first post with that info? Some guys in this thread own some bad ass gear, and it may be useful to new people. Obviously the review would have to be about VSS with said headphone/gear. Thoughts?


----------



## Evshrug

mbyrnes said:


> Question MLE. If reviews are done by people in the thread, can you update the first post with that info? Some guys in this thread own some bad ass gear, and it may be useful to new people. Obviously the review would have to be about VSS with said headphone/gear. Thoughts?



Small thought...
More reviews are good, and MLE's thread has gotten so big that many other gaming threads don't get views. Keeping the thread current would be good.

However, part of what made this thread great was Mad has pretty consistent perspective. I mention bias as a good thing here, because if you know one or two headphones on the guide, then Mad's comparison is pretty consistent between them and the reader has a good idea what to expect. Adding two or three reviews from one more person's bias doesn't lend itself to much comparision against the other body of work here.

I'll talk more later (lunch break is over), but I have an idea.


----------



## Yethal

Adding reviews from other people could be a good thing as long as we add a giant-ass disclaimer telling people not to compare headphones reviewed by different people. On the other hand though, Mad put a giant-ass disclaimer telling people not to compare scores between different headphones and people still did that.


----------



## Evshrug

Yeah, SO, we retyped the whole MLE first post as a guide, you know like a sticky, and I made sure to give editing privileges to Mad, Yethal, AxelCloris, and a few other friends who used to be more on this thread but continue writing reviews in general.

So, how about one page of MLE's reviews, and another of "guest" reviews. If someone writes a good one and sends me a link (heck, even if you want to swap some time of peer-review/editing the writing), I or one of the other admins can paste the review in, or at least link to the review like I do on the first page of my thread (it's in my signature).


----------



## mbyrnes

evshrug said:


> Yeah, SO, we retyped the whole MLE first post as a guide, you know like a sticky, and I made sure to give editing privileges to Mad, Yethal, AxelCloris, and a few other friends who used to be more on this thread but continue writing reviews in general.
> 
> So, how about one page of MLE's reviews, and another of "guest" reviews. If someone writes a good one and sends me a link (heck, even if you want to swap some time of peer-review/editing the writing), I or one of the other admins can paste the review in, or at least link to the review like I do on the first page of my thread (it's in my signature).




I'm sure something will be appropriate, and is getting needed more each day. MLE single handedly put me on this path, and I owe him a lot of credit steering me correctly. Sadly he isn't reviewing much anymore, but the headphone industry is cranking out headphones non stop. Obviously an army couldn't review them all, but some deserve notice on the first page to avoid answering the same questions, over and over again. Also I think some great gaming headphones get lost, then forgotten about, by the new shiny headphone just released. 

I should have the PC37X next week, so they'll be in the wild, and more drops are coming. Once they are up constantly like AKG K7XX, Fostex TH-X00, etc, they definitely should be on the first page. Yethal and Evshrug both have great reviews on them already. 

There's probably a lot of popular, recent headphones, that deserve a formal review. I don't expect MLE to even attempt to keep up, and he shouldn't have to. 

Another way to combat personal preferences is multiple reviews. Just list a headphone with pictures and links to reviews. Maybe do a number system for a quick overall idea, which that typically leads to lazy reading, but quickly navigating the huge list. If you were looking for a fun can, skipping the not fun cans, is easier to get through all of the headphones, if you know what you want.


----------



## Evshrug

The guide posts are already up. I feel like I should remove my (clearly labeled) editing notes from the K612 review, and just do my own full review, because I've had the K612 and used them for a long time.
Also the Sennheiser HD800.
Might as well re-post the Sennheiser PC37X, and the other reviews in my blog (in my signature).
And the HiFiman HE-400.
HE-560.
V-Moda M-100.
Creative BlasterX H7.
RHA S500i.
Etymotic EP-6i.
FiiO/DunuDunu branded IEMs.
And... ooooh, look, something shiny! (wanders off)


----------



## Evshrug

Part 1: Intro, Headphone Surround samples, and a table of contents (of sorts)
http://www.head-fi.org/a/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-1-14-2016-final-section-updated

Part 2: Chico's "Frequently Asked Questions" section, probably most people's questions could be referred here for great answers. And humor.
http://www.head-fi.org/a/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-page-2

Part 3: All of Mad Lust Envy's headphone reviews, sorted by price groups, wth lots of spoiler tags for quicker navigation (this took me awhile):
http://www.head-fi.org/a/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-page-3

Page 4: Will be the long-time "contributor's" reviews. I will use price ranges and spoiler tags like part 3 to make navigation quicker.

Credit to Mad Lust Envy for the reviews, chicolom for the FAQ (and NamelessPFG for the PC Soundcard thread), Hansotek for the "title" graphic, and Evshrug for reformatting, editing, and posting it.


_Rescuing everybody, in style_​


----------



## Yethal

While we're at it we might also add setup diagrams, tutorials and mic samples. I have ModMic, and PC37X mic samples recorded, might add the Beyer mic to the mix.


----------



## mbyrnes

Wow, unreal guys! Awesome work! 

After all these years, I still use the first page a lot. It's one of the most useful information pages I've ever come across. I still tell people use it, as it's a Bible to me. Keeping it current is so incredibly useful!


----------



## Yethal

It's Gospel of Mad
  
 Then God said, “Let us make headphone surround in our speakers' image, according to their likeness; and let them have dominion over our gaming setups, and over our Head-Fi discussions, and over our wallets, and over all the wild headphones of the earth,[d] and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the internet.”


----------



## Change is Good

Feel free to add my one and only K7XX review on the contributor's page if needed.


----------



## AxelCloris

change is good said:


> Feel free to add my one and only K7XX review on the contributor's page if needed.


 

 OK, I'll delete it from the site for you.


----------



## Zyker

I'm looking to sell my AKG K7XX... it's got a ModMic 4 attached to it (which is now missing it's little foam pop filter, thanks to my toddler) with the modmic and headphones cable running through a cabling sleeve.  Any suggestions on price?  I mostly want it to go to a good home. 
  
 The HE-400is I just got are _so_ good and I love them... they've really made Horizon Zero Dawn come alive.


----------



## Change is Good

axelcloris said:


> OK, I'll delete it from the site for you.




Stalker

I mean... moderator


----------



## audioBenj

Has anyone tested Sennheiser's gaming headsets? Are they any good?


----------



## Yethal

audiobenj said:


> Has anyone tested Sennheiser's gaming headsets? Are they any good?


 

 I have the PC37X (Massdrop version of PC373D) and it is an amazing headset for the price.


----------



## Evshrug

audiobenj said:


> Has anyone tested Sennheiser's gaming headsets? Are they any good?



I also have the PC37X, the special Massdrop edition of the PC373D (without the D digital dongle part), and I tried their current gaming lineup inside Sennheiser's Pop-Up NYC store. They're all quite good, though I would suggest upgrading from the USB dongles to something nicer like the GSX1000 or processors from Creative, Asus, and Turtle Beach will be a more satisfying experience.

I'd like to try the Beyerdynamic MMX300. I wonder if it would have a more premium build quality than the DT770, which was already a good value. The Beyer Custom One Pro (COP) and Creative H7 sounded near indistinguishable from each other when A/B'd, so despite the tunable bass in the COP, I would recommend the less expensive H7 first, maybe the H5 if the drivers are tuned the same as the H7 but without the USB dongle built-in to the cable (I haven't heard the Creative H5).


----------



## Evshrug

change is good said:


> Feel free to add my one and only K7XX review on the contributor's page if needed.



I'll think about it, because it was well-written. Thing is, having several reviews gives readers a better sense for your tastes and ears. So they know if you like the K7XX and HE-400i but dislike the AD700 for specific reasons, then readers can read more into your comments.


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I'll think about it, because it was well-written. Thing is, having several reviews gives readers a better sense for your tastes and ears. So they know if you like the K7XX and HE-400i but dislike the AD700 for specific reasons, then readers can read more into your comments.




Once I have some free time after the semester I'll put something together of what I own. My thing is, I try to avoid reviewing those (since I've had them all for a long while) to avoid major bias (which I felt there was much of in my K7XX review). If I had the 400i side by side when I wrote that, I would have explained its faults with more detail. I may just do the Fidelio L2 since it's still fresh to my ears.


----------



## The Krell

Does anyone know if the custom one game will work with the nintendo switch?


----------



## Change is Good

Just snatched a 9500 from the classifieds for cheap. Excited to have one back in my possession. The L2 is stellar, but its pleather pads aren't ideal for long gaming sessions. Should be fun comparing the two, also. Both are definitely great choices for low cost gaming with the Boompro, the L2 more so if one isn't bothered by pleather pads.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Just snatched a 9500 from the classifieds for cheap. Excited to have one back in my possession. The L2 is stellar, but its pleather pads aren't ideal for long gaming sessions. Should be fun comparing the two, also. Both are definitely great choices for low cost gaming with the Boompro, the L2 more so if one isn't bothered by pleather pads.




Nice  
That was a steal!


----------



## Change is Good

lenroot77 said:


> Nice
> That was a steal!




Definitely. The L2 was a steal, also. That thing sounds pretty refined for its price. Just a bit lacking in soundstage, but super impressive everywhere else. Probably going to keep both for the long haul.


----------



## John Q Lin

For Gaming
here is how I rank my headphones

1. HD800 (excellent, you will have a huge advantage) 
2. TH900 ( excellent as well)
3. THx00 ( Average)
4. X2 (too muddy for competitive shooter.)

I wander how T1 would fair.


----------



## Evshrug

john q lin said:


> For Gaming
> here is how I rank my headphones
> 
> 1. HD800 (excellent, you will have a huge advantage)
> ...




When did you get the HD800?
I would agree with the order of ranking, but you'I've set the bar very high for "average" 
I'm not sure I know what I'd consider average anymore... ideally, something hugely popular and common, but I agree that something like a mid-range Turtle Beach or Astro is basically at the "entry-level" and beat out or tied by some cheaper music headphones.


----------



## Yethal

the krell said:


> Does anyone know if the custom one game will work with the nintendo switch?


 

 It has a regular headphones jack so it should.


change is good said:


> Just snatched a 9500 from the classifieds for cheap. Excited to have one back in my possession. The L2 is stellar, but its pleather pads aren't ideal for long gaming sessions. Should be fun comparing the two, also. Both are definitely great choices for low cost gaming with the Boompro, the L2 more so if one isn't bothered by pleather pads.


 

 Didn't You own like three of those before?


----------



## John Q Lin

evshrug said:


> john q lin said:
> 
> 
> > For Gaming
> ...



I got it a few weeks ago. It's not my cup of tea, I prefer the th900.


----------



## RedHarlow

Quick question. I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. I already own these Headphones:
 Takstar Pro 80's
 Takstar HI 2050's
 Philips SHP9500's
  
 I want to buy a closed headphone with a wide soundstage. So I'm stuck with the ISK HD 9999 or the audio technica m40's. Any recommendations?
  
 Detachable cable is also a bonus.


----------



## BearMonster

john q lin said:


> For Gaming
> here is how I rank my headphones
> 
> 1. HD800 (excellent, you will have a huge advantage)
> ...


 
  
 I have the beyerdynamic t1 2nd gen. For competitive use they are terrible, the soundstage width is far to small, the only redeeming factor they have are the imaging & soundstage depth they have. 
  
 For single player games they are ok but there are other cheaper headphones like akg k712 which can do both competitive and single player games at a cheaper price.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> Didn't You own like three of those before?




This will be my second time. For $35 what the hell, why not...


----------



## Evshrug

Oh man!
Party at my house, 6 people! We're gaming and will be twitch streaming in a few minutes! Search Twitch for EvShrug 
We're being ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, I can already tell tonight's gonna be funny


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Oh man!
> Party at my house, 6 people! We're gaming and will be twitch streaming in a few minutes! Search Twitch for EvShrug
> 
> 
> ...


 

 OFFLINE
 Seems you guys already blacked out.
  


change is good said:


> This will be my second time. For $35 what the hell, why not...


 
 For 35$ I'd buy them just to see what the fuss is all about.


----------



## nicobombai

redharlow said:


> Quick question. I'm looking for a new pair of headphones. I already own these Headphones:
> Takstar Pro 80's
> Takstar HI 2050's
> Philips SHP9500's
> ...


 
  
 DT770 is nice, had them, better than m50x imo, superb bass, very immersive. You can refer to MLE's guide, is accurate.
 AKG k550/553 also can be a contender, heard good things about it, nice soundstage for a closed back.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> OFFLINE
> Seems you guys already blacked out.
> 
> For 35$ I'd buy them just to see what the fuss is all about.




As you saw, we started moments after your post 
Sorry about the abrupt end though, after 3+ hours of streaming, our internet connection crashed! I was hoping to end right after that mission anyway. I did go and do a quick side mission to find an interpreter.


----------



## themrmikemcd

**meant to reply to a post. For the life of me I cant figure out how to delete this post..** I HATED the new TR MIXAMP for that horrible metallic surround sound! I agree with SS off it sounds great. They really went out of their way to make the SS just horrible. No amount of tweaking got rid of the echoy/metallic sound while in SS mode. I bought a mix amp pro off ebay for like 30 bucks and the SS is at least tolerable when used.


----------



## themrmikemcd

mad lust envy said:


> I'll post and example vid I linked to on the first post. It is already pre-mixed with DH, so TURN OFF Dolby on your mixamp when listening to this. And no, do NOT turn ON Dolby to compare. This video is already converted, and not a 5.1 Doplby signal, so it won't work that way.
> 
> [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcp9mNbhtFo[/VIDEO]
> 
> This should give you a better idea.


Was this done with the TR edition or different version mix amp? My TR edition was echoy and metallic sounding too.


----------



## themrmikemcd

benn beckman said:


> hey guys, i am new on audio, and i plan to buy open back headphone for music, gaming, and movies..
> from what i read, maybe dt990 meet those criteria. but there are some problem that holding me back:
> First, how harsh the treble on beyer dt990, compare to msr7 (actually I have ws1100 which according to people is a fun version of msr7 with bass and mid backwards)
> second, I don't have an amp, is there any portable amp that can drive dt990 properly under 200$?


I owned the dt990 and while I'm no expert, I didn't find them all that great. If I am remembering correctly voices were so far away sounding that any game with people talking was hard to hear. Now...for what it's worth, I have the dt880s now and while voices are better, I don't think I like the sound signature of this company's heaphones. I don't think "wow!" when gaming with them. I use/ed a fio e12 and mixamp pro with mine for gaming and just the e12 for music. Not sure if it is the best amp for this headphone or not? It was what i could afford at the time. Mine were the 250 ohm version headphones on both the dt990 and dt880. However i bought my 880 on ebay and it was just the headphones..they could be the 80 ohm for all I know.. for my ears I honestly can't tell any significant difference in sound quality using these versus using something cheaper like the shp9500 or superlux 668. Now, this is coming from someone who is not an audiophile and I have no idea if getting different amp would make them sound better.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> As you saw, we started moments after your post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Yeah, that's what I thought. It was 5am here anyway so the timing couldn't have been better.
  
 Quote:


themrmikemcd said:


> Was this done with the TR edition or different version mix amp? My TR edition was echoy and metallic sounding too.


 

 This was uploaded to YouTube on 2012 so it would be kinda difficult to record it using TR.


----------



## themrmikemcd

change is good said:


> Not really. Most of the recent trending "great stuff" is priced over $1000 these days. Only the Aeon is lower priced, but still pricey.


honestly, I found the Porta pro to be an amazing pair of headphones for the price. I would almost rather just have these than my DT880s..No i WOULD rather have these than my 880s. I bounce around from these to my superlux 668s and SHP9500s which all togther are cheaper than these 880s. When I first got them I thought they were a little too warm.. But after listneing to them for a few hours I realized I was just a moron and they sounded great. Probably my favorite headphones currently.


----------



## themrmikemcd

yethal said:


> Yeah, that's what I thought. It was 5am here anyway so the timing couldn't have been better.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> ...


Touche, in my defense, i did just play it from the player in the message. :-b But I guess i took the lazy way and asked instead of checking myself. The TR sound nothing like it though..in a BAD way. I don't even think my older mix amp sounds as good as that clip...


----------



## Yethal

themrmikemcd said:


> Touche, in my defense, i did just play it from the player in the message. :-b But I guess i took the lazy way and asked instead of checking myself. The TR sound nothing like it though..in a BAD way. I don't even think my older mix amp sounds as good as that clip...


 

 It's possible that the clip was recorded using a PC soundcard that supports Dolby Headphone and not an actual Mixamp. It seems Astro really dropped the ball on this one, I owned two Mixamps before (2010 and 2013 versions) and the positioning was excellent. DAC and amp sections sucked compared to the X7 but as far as positional accuracy went I had nothing to complain about.


----------



## Benn Beckman

themrmikemcd said:


> I owned the dt990 and while I'm no expert, I didn't find them all that great. If I am remembering correctly voices were so far away sounding that any game with people talking was hard to hear. Now...for what it's worth, I have the dt880s now and while voices are better, I don't think I like the sound signature of this company's heaphones. I don't think "wow!" when gaming with them. I use/ed a fio e12 and mixamp pro with mine for gaming and just the e12 for music. Not sure if it is the best amp for this headphone or not? It was what i could afford at the time. Mine were the 250 ohm version headphones on both the dt990 and dt880. However i bought my 880 on ebay and it was just the headphones..they could be the 80 ohm for all I know.. for my ears I honestly can't tell any significant difference in sound quality using these versus using something cheaper like the shp9500 or superlux 668. Now, this is coming from someone who is not an audiophile and I have no idea if getting different amp would make them sound better.


 
 ok what is the difference beetween dt880 and dt990? soundstage, bass, etc. i need bass for movie..
 what are game do you play? is it fps? i want to know how well dt990 for positioning in the fps game
 e12 vs a5 which is better?


----------



## shuto77

benn beckman said:


> ok what is the difference beetween dt880 and dt990? soundstage, bass, etc. i need bass for movie..
> what are game do you play? is it fps? i want to know how well dt990 for positioning in the fps game
> e12 vs a5 which is better?


 
  
 I can't give you comprehensive information as I haven't heard the DT880, but I did own the DT990. It is very V-shaped, meaning it has boosted bass and treble. This is good for movies, and the boosted treble is good for hearing footsteps and other background information. The mids were too sucked-out for me, however, with music. I haven't heard the DT880, but I've read it's more neutral than the DT990, and its treble isn't as fatiguing - so it's probably a better all-arounder.
  
 The A5 is considered a slight upgrade over the E12, but the E12 is better if you are only using full-sized headphones as it's slightly more powerful. The E12 is also slightly cheaper, and easier to get in the classifieds - someone was selling one on the classifieds for $65, which is a steal.
  
 Good luck!


----------



## Benn Beckman

shuto77 said:


> I can't give you comprehensive information as I haven't heard the DT880, but I did own the DT990. It is very V-shaped, meaning it has boosted bass and treble. This is good for movies, and the boosted treble is good for hearing footsteps and other background information. The mids were too sucked-out for me, however, with music. I haven't heard the DT880, but I've read it's more neutral than the DT990, and its treble isn't as fatiguing - so it's probably a better all-arounder.
> 
> The A5 is considered a slight upgrade over the E12, but the E12 is better if you are only using full-sized headphones as it's slightly more powerful. The E12 is also slightly cheaper, and easier to get in the classifieds - someone was selling one on the classifieds for $65, which is a steal.
> 
> Good luck!


 
 i think i probably pick the dt990. i read on page 1 that dt880 have a hole beetween 5 and 7 if it use for gaming. dt990 600 ohm with bundle fiio a5 for $279, what do you think?


----------



## kellte2

benn beckman said:


> i think i probably pick the dt990. i read on page 1 that dt880 have a hole beetween 5 and 7 if it use for gaming. dt990 600 ohm with bundle fiio a5 for $279, what do you think?




Treble was way too hot for my tastes on the DT990 (600 ohms). If your ears can take it, then that's a decent deal.


----------



## shuto77

benn beckman said:


> i think i probably pick the dt990. i read on page 1 that dt880 have a hole beetween 5 and 7 if it use for gaming. dt990 600 ohm with bundle fiio a5 for $279, what do you think?


 
  


kellte2 said:


> Treble was way too hot for my tastes on the DT990 (600 ohms). If your ears can take it, then that's a decent deal.


 
  
 Yes, to @kellte2's point, I think the treble is a bit too much, at least it was with my DT990 Pro 250. I'd try to get an AKG K7XX or a Fidelio X2 for a little more. Both will be more enjoyable with a wide range of music as well.


----------



## kellte2

shuto77 said:


> Yes, to @kellte2
> 's point, I think the treble is a bit too much, at least it was with my DT990 Pro 250. I'd try to get an AKG K7XX or a Fidelio X2 for a little more. Both will be more enjoyable with a wide range of music as well.




Yep, I went with the K702 Annie, and by comparison, i couldn't go back of the DT990 for music. Gaming was easier to swallow, but music was abrasive (for me).


----------



## expontherise

I am looking to get a headphone compatible with my boom pro mic (vmoda) and I understand there are adapters for it to be used with most others as well..
  
 I am  looking at the X2's is there a better recommendation for gaming and music like reggae/dub to purchase instead? I do like a warmer sound, I already have M100's so not needing something that has really heavy bass as that, more of an additional compliment for my collection.
  
 Edits: I also was looking at the k7xx, but am currently at a loss of my amp burning out (was a cheapie anyway) so am afraid until I can afford an amp they may be harder for me to drive?
  
 Any suggestions should be based on no available amp please, but one will be purchased in due time.


----------



## Benn Beckman

kellte2 said:


> Treble was way too hot for my tastes on the DT990 (600 ohms). If your ears can take it, then that's a decent deal.


 
 what about movie? is the treble hars for movie too?
 actualy at first i want to pair 250ohm version with fiio e17k so i can set the treble, but i saw that bundle and i heard that 600ohm version is a little bit softer than the 250 ohm. 
  


shuto77 said:


> Yes, to @kellte2's point, I think the treble is a bit too much, at least it was with my DT990 Pro 250. I'd try to get an AKG K7XX or a Fidelio X2 for a little more. Both will be more enjoyable with a wide range of music as well.


 
 i didn't pick x2 because phillips didn't sell the replacement earpads. and i heard x2 have "bleeding ink" issue
 is akg k7xx good for all arrounder? what about soundstage and positional cue? compare to beyer
 i heard that akg (k7 xx,12pro,01  q701  and k612pro) are very little bass. i'm not an audiophile, i want at least like m50x (flat but with a little added bass). from those akg line up, which have sound signature close to m50x and still good for gaming? which have bigger soundstage and easy to drive?
 actually i have ath ws1100is which i very love the sound so much. i want an open back version of this, thats why i want dt990.


----------



## Hailin

I am going to play devils advocate here. Neither of the Beyers DT990 bother me. I own both the 250 pro and premium and I don't mind the treble on both through my Fiio E09k. The E09K isn't exactly neutral, it is a tad darker so maybe I was getting some treble roll off.
  
 I am playing the other side cause I am one of the very rare in this thread that greatly dislikes the AKG7series. The big pads on both the Annie 702 and 712 gave me horrible headaches and jaw pain. I would still love to own one some day just to say I did but I don't think I could ever use it again. At least not for very long stints. I remember the bass being ok but coming from DT990 it just didn't' compare. The soundstage on both didn't compare to Senn HD598. Again lots will argue but different ears on different folks.  
  
 The pro is bassier and has less soundstage, by a tiny tiny amount. The premium has less clamp for some reason that lessens the bass and slightly increases the soundstage. Plus the premium is so comfortable. 

 To be perfectly honest, I haven't used my Beyers all that much over the last couple of years, because as soon as I bought the Sony MA900 I haven't looked back. Unfortunately for your research it doesn't help much.
  
 As far as the Phillips goes I just never really got a chance to try either one. Really wanted too. But I just love my Sony so much I just didn't care for a side grade and couldn't really afford it at the time. 
  
 Just make sure buy from a dealer with a good return policy (amazon) don't be ready to settle on something you are aren't happy with. Spend a week with it. Don't convince yourself that, that bass roll off or piercing treble is going to magically disappear. Like many in this thread I have probably gone through 6 or 7 (Some like EV and MLE probably way over 20.) pairs to find the one I love. Crappy financial times was the only reason I stopped. lol  Best of luck


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The DT990 depends on amp. With tubes? It's fine. Yeah there's a spike but it's not killer. The headphones are probably (IMO) the best low cost gaming headphones out there. You can snag a pair for barely anything compared to a lot of this list.
  
 Right now I'm using HD700s, and maybe it's because I'm coming from the DT990s, but I also don't find their treble nearly as problematic as others have said, and I listen to a ton of loud metal through them with no issues. Little Dot MK2 with Mullard tubes, so that may very well be warming the sound up a good bit.


----------



## ToonMechaMan

benn beckman said:


> what about movie? is the treble hars for movie too?
> actualy at first i want to pair 250ohm version with fiio e17k so i can set the treble, but i saw that bundle and i heard that 600ohm version is a little bit softer than the 250 ohm.
> 
> i didn't pick x2 because phillips didn't sell the replacement earpads. and i heard x2 have "bleeding ink" issue
> ...


 
  
 I own the X2 and Q701 and the Q701 is better for gaming, especially competitive gaming. It's a really analytical headphone and its positioning is god-tier. Replace the headband or put something over it. The bass is weak but it's certainly present. 
  
 The X2 is great too for gaming and very, very easy to drive and is the most comfortable headphone I've ever used. I've not had the bleeding ink issue and I wear them for 8-10 hours a day for work, gaming, and movie watching. The bass is great and the soundstage is ridiculous as well. You can also use it with the V-Moda Boompro mic.


----------



## shuto77

benn beckman said:


> what about movie? is the treble hars for movie too?
> actualy at first i want to pair 250ohm version with fiio e17k so i can set the treble, but i saw that bundle and i heard that 600ohm version is a little bit softer than the 250 ohm.
> 
> i didn't pick x2 because phillips didn't sell the replacement earpads. and i heard x2 have "bleeding ink" issue
> ...


 
  
  
 The X2 QC issues are overblown, in my opinion. I owned 3 pairs, and I thought they sounded identical. Furthermore, the Brainwavz velour pads are about $25/$30, and are even more comfortable. Edit: These were all post glue-gate, but I really never saw a problem with them and thought they sounded good.
  
 The AKG K7XX sounds like a good match, and they do sell replacement pads, but they cost $70 last time I checked. Also, you'll need an adapter to get the K7XX's mini-XLR input to work.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I'm pretty stoked that Outlast 2 finally has a release date. I forgot I still have yet to play the Whistleblower dlc I bought from a flash sale a while back. Debating whether to stream or not. The main game crept me out a few times haha.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

change is good said:


> Well, I'm pretty stoked that Outlast 2 finally has a release date. I forgot I still have yet to play the Whistleblower dlc I bought from a flash sale a while back. Debating whether to stream or not. The main game crept me out a few times haha.


 
 My only problem with Outlast was how repetitive it got in the gameplay sections. Too much time spent running in circles looking for keys. Hopefully 2 avoids that.


----------



## Change is Good

someguydude said:


> My only problem with Outlast was how repetitive it got in the gameplay sections. Too much time spent running in circles looking for keys. Hopefully 2 avoids that.




Yeah, played Whistleblower for a bout 20 minutes and it was more of the same. It was only $2, and the main game was free on ps+. Still enjoyed it for what it was.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

change is good said:


> Yeah, played Whistleblower for a bout 20 minutes and it was more of the same. It was only $2, and the main game was free on ps+. Still enjoyed it for what it was.


 
 For two bucks it's a damn good purchase.
  
 I'm a big horror hound. I've played pretty much every horror game available on PC, every Amnesia/Slender/Outlast/FNAF/etc. Always looking for that next thing. Another reason I love headphones! They make the experience so much more visceral.


----------



## Benn Beckman

toonmechaman said:


> I own the X2 and Q701 and the Q701 is better for gaming, especially competitive gaming. It's a really analytical headphone and its positioning is god-tier. Replace the headband or put something over it. The bass is weak but it's certainly present.
> 
> The X2 is great too for gaming and very, very easy to drive and is the most comfortable headphone I've ever used. I've not had the bleeding ink issue and I wear them for 8-10 hours a day for work, gaming, and movie watching. The bass is great and the soundstage is ridiculous as well. You can also use it with the V-Moda Boompro mic.


 
 yah at first i thought x2 will be great since it easy to drive and i can use boompro. in my country its hard to find modmic on local store. if i buy from ebay there will be so much extra charge (tax, ship, etc). 
 is q701 hard to drive?
  


shuto77 said:


> The X2 QC issues are overblown, in my opinion. I owned 3 pairs, and I thought they sounded identical. Furthermore, the Brainwavz velour pads are about $25/$30, and are even more comfortable. Edit: These were all post glue-gate, but I really never saw a problem with them and thought they sounded good.
> 
> The AKG K7XX sounds like a good match, and they do sell replacement pads, but they cost $70 last time I checked. Also, you'll need an adapter to get the K7XX's mini-XLR input to work.


 
 what it mean "post glue-gate"? what about sound quality if you change to brainwavz pads?
 i think i saw someone sell k7xx on my country, it will be great since i don't have to buy from international site like ebay or amazon. 
 i don't understand why i need adapter to make it work? is the cable xlr to xlr, so i must buy xlr to 3,5mm?


----------



## Evshrug

X2 is easier to drive than the Q701, the Q701 can be driven loud out of an iPhone but a dedicated desktop amp helps it scale up. The Q701 doesn't need an amp for more sheer volume, the extra current helps extend how deep the bass goes (bass extension), helps treble smoothly flow in a more liquid fashion, and decreases bloom across all the frequency ranges. Typically, all good headphones benefit from better amping in this way. I do think the Phillips X2 might be a better fit for you due to your stated preferences, or maybe one of the new Sennheiser HD5... range.

Regarding "glue-gate," there was a period of time where Philips started gluing the X2 pads onto the headphone, making it harder to change pads. I am not up to speed on whether they stopped glueing them (shuto77's "post" glue-gate comment makes me wonder if they stopped gluing them?), but the sound does change as pads break in and get more dense from the oils of our skin. Even my skin, which is very dry! I recommend replacing pads after about 1.5-2 years, and do a comparison between old and new pads... the change will happen so slowly you'll barely notice, but the instant you compare old and new pads you'll know.
The Q701 has replaceable headphones, but the jack on the headphone is mini-xlr while the boompro uses a 3.5mm plug. Another alternative to a boom mic could be a desktop mic, or lapel mic... in both cases, you don't have to worry about connecting the mic and the headphone.


----------



## John Q Lin

I try the T1 for gaming yesterday, but I prefer the HD800 for sure.


----------



## Evshrug

john q lin said:


> I try the T1 for gaming yesterday, but I prefer the HD800 for sure.



I don't want to say "called it!"

But I was thinking it 
Do you like the T1 for music?


----------



## ToonMechaMan

benn beckman said:


> yah at first i thought x2 will be great since it easy to drive and i can use boompro. in my country its hard to find modmic on local store. if i buy from ebay there will be so much extra charge (tax, ship, etc).
> is q701 hard to drive?
> 
> what it mean "post glue-gate"? what about sound quality if you change to brainwavz pads?
> ...


 

 It's fairly hard to drive in order to get the most out of it. Also, it's fairly amp dependent. I used to use them with the Magni 2 but the highs frequently overshadowed the rest but with the amp/DAC Aune X1S and even more so with Darkvoice 336SE tube amp it helped calm the highs and allowed me to hear the mids and lows a lot better. Put simply in games like Battlefield 1 the gunfire and explosions overshadowed footsteps and other noises but with the right amp it you can hear everything else without losing much detail of the more high-pitched noises.
  
 If you want more bass you can try the bass mod for this though I've not tried it.


----------



## Benn Beckman

evshrug said:


> X2 is easier to drive than the Q701, the Q701 can be driven loud out of an iPhone but a dedicated desktop amp helps it scale up. The Q701 doesn't need an amp for more sheer volume, the extra current helps extend how deep the bass goes (bass extension), helps treble smoothly flow in a more liquid fashion, and decreases bloom across all the frequency ranges. Typically, all good headphones benefit from better amping in this way. I do think the Phillips X2 might be a better fit for you due to your stated preferences, or maybe one of the new Sennheiser HD5... range.
> 
> Regarding "glue-gate," there was a period of time where Philips started gluing the X2 pads onto the headphone, making it harder to change pads. I am not up to speed on whether they stopped glueing them (shuto77's "post" glue-gate comment makes me wonder if they stopped gluing them?), but the sound does change as pads break in and get more dense from the oils of our skin. Even my skin, which is very dry! I recommend replacing pads after about 1.5-2 years, and do a comparison between old and new pads... the change will happen so slowly you'll barely notice, but the instant you compare old and new pads you'll know.
> The Q701 has replaceable headphones, but the jack on the headphone is mini-xlr while the boompro uses a 3.5mm plug. Another alternative to a boom mic could be a desktop mic, or lapel mic... in both cases, you don't have to worry about connecting the mic and the headphone.


 
 hd558 maybe meet my criteria, but i think i prefer phillips. i ask at my local forum that x2 in my country isn't glued version. since brainwavz earpads can fit on x2, i think the problem solved. soundstage and positional cue compare to beyer dt990? which is bigger and accurate?
 i'll consider akg in the future when i got a job. i don't know since i watch sound demo on z channels i am interested with akg, i feel their soundstage is really huge. but only k7xx i saw someone sell it on local store. if i got a job modmic or a good amp wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Benn Beckman

toonmechaman said:


> It's fairly hard to drive in order to get the most out of it. Also, it's fairly amp dependent. I used to use them with the Magni 2 but the highs frequently overshadowed the rest but with the amp/DAC Aune X1S and even more so with Darkvoice 336SE tube amp it helped calm the highs and allowed me to hear the mids and lows a lot better. Put simply in games like Battlefield 1 the gunfire and explosions overshadowed footsteps and other noises but with the right amp it you can hear everything else without losing much detail of the more high-pitched noises.
> 
> If you want more bass you can try the bass mod for this though I've not tried it.


 
 yea maybe i will buy akg later since it hard to drive. for now i just can buy a cheap amp or dacamp


----------



## ToonMechaMan

benn beckman said:


> yea maybe i will buy akg later since it hard to drive. for now i just can buy a cheap amp or dacamp


 
 I don't know about the HD558 but you don't need an amp for the X2. It helps though.


----------



## Evshrug

benn beckman said:


> hd558 maybe meet my criteria, but i think i prefer phillips. i ask at my local forum that x2 in my country isn't glued version. since brainwavz earpads can fit on x2, i think the problem solved. soundstage and positional cue compare to beyer dt990? which is bigger and accurate?
> i'll consider akg in the future when i got a job. i don't know since i watch sound demo on z channels i am interested with akg, i feel their soundstage is really huge. but only k7xx i saw someone sell it on local store. if i got a job modmic or a good amp wouldn't be a problem.




What headphones did you use to listen to the Z Reviews sound demo, the same one he was recording? 
Think about it, you can't tell how the soundstage, detail, bass, or practically anything about how a headphone is an improvement when that is filtered through the speakers/headphones you're already using. Major bottleneck. The microphone and how he mounts it to the headphone is also going to color the sound. You can compare different Z Reviews demos with each other, but they're useless for understanding what a headphone actually sounds like. It's a fundamentally flawed test.

I've read many reviews and impressions of the Philips X2 and Beyerdynamic DT990, but I haven't heard them myself. I've had several opportunities to listen to the DT990, but because the DT880 literally caused pain in my ears I wasn't interested in trying the DT990. Your experience may vary.

I haven't tried all the new open and closed HD5 series from Sennheiser yet, but I love my HD800 and really liked my PC37X, which is basically a PC373D without the USB dongle (and much less expensive) from Massdrop.com. If the 5 series is anything like the PC37X, then they don't have god-tier soundstage size, but they have great imaging placement and a decently fun sound (warmer than the AKGs) while also having replaceable earpads.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The 880s are a _lot_ brighter than the 990s. FWIW. 
  
 I'll say this. The DT990s have the famed Beyer treble spike, whereas the X2s do not, and I think that's going to be the primary difference between the two. I preferred the 990s after a while with them, mostly because that spike (unnatural as it may have been) just turned out to sound better to my ears. Additionally, I absolutely hate the X2's saddle system. It doesn't hold still on your head, it'll bounce around if you move. No thank you.


----------



## John Q Lin

I was doing a review on T1 vs HD800, TH900, THX00, D7k, HD650, HD600, X2....... 

My computer crashed .....


----------



## John Q Lin

evshrug said:


> john q lin said:
> 
> 
> > I try the T1 for gaming yesterday, but I prefer the HD800 for sure.
> ...



Yes its very musical, not as much fun as the th900


----------



## mbyrnes

In case anyone is interested. I'm holding an event in South Philly on April 1st. All are welcome of course, and it'll be a great time. My gear alone will be an event, and I expect a handful of others dying to have a local event to come. All welcome


----------



## shuto77

mbyrnes said:


> In case anyone is interested. I'm holding an event in South Philly on April 1st. All are welcome of course, and it'll be a great time. My gear alone will be an event, and I expect a handful of others dying to have a local event to come. All welcome




Hey Buddy - I'll try to make it. I'm in Barrington, NJ. Probably 20 minutes away.


----------



## Benn Beckman

toonmechaman said:


> I don't know about the HD558 but you don't need an amp for the X2. It helps though.


 
 yep thank you for the advice
  


evshrug said:


> What headphones did you use to listen to the Z Reviews sound demo, the same one he was recording?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 i use ws1100 to listen z review. yea i can't tell bass, detail etc but about soundstage i think i can imagine how it will be in real life. so i'm not talking about sound signature since it colored with my headphones. i read that hd558 have more bass than 598 but the soundstage is bigger in 598. since 598 is basslight so it may not my priority for now. i want an open back with a good bass and huge soundstage for now.


----------



## mbyrnes

shuto77 said:


> Hey Buddy - I'll try to make it. I'm in Barrington, NJ. Probably 20 minutes away.




Parking isn't an issue as there is free parking under 95, two blocks away. You can unload out front then park. One reason I really love where I live. Parking is never an issue!


----------



## apaar123

Has anyone used chord mojo for gaming?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

apaar123 said:


> Has anyone used chord mojo for gaming?


 
 I haven't but I can't imagine it would be anything below stellar.


----------



## Evshrug

apaar123 said:


> Has anyone used chord mojo for gaming?



Using the X7's optical output (with headphone surround processed signal) into a Mojo is pure giggles. The Mojo's strength in "depth" really works great with surround processing.


----------



## shuto77

evshrug said:


> Using the X7's optical output (with headphone surround processed signal) into a Mojo is pure giggles. The Mojo's strength in "depth" really works great with surround processing.




Hey, EV! 

Question for you. My new X7's rca output was doa apparently, so I just put through a warranty claim (this new one is still under warranty). 

I also bought a Schiit Modi Multibit and Jotunheim. If I run optical from the PS4 to the Dss2, then to the Modi, will that work? I imagine it will, but I'm not sure if double-amping the Dss2 is a bad idea.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Hey, EV!
> 
> Question for you. My new X7's rca output was doa apparently, so I just put through a warranty claim (this new one is still under warranty).
> 
> I also bought a Schiit Modi Multibit and Jotunheim. If I run optical from the PS4 to the Dss2, then to the Modi, will that work? I imagine it will, but I'm not sure if double-amping the Dss2 is a bad idea.


 

 It won't, You can't chain DACs together.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> It won't, You can't chain DACs together.




Thanks for the information. My other option is to connect the Dss2 to the Jotunheim via an rca to 3.5mm cable in the interim. I know that will work. I know the dac isn't anything special in the Dss2, however.

Follow up question: Would an rca splitter be a bad idea to connect to my Jotunheim? I want to connect my Modi and the Dss2 to it at the same time, but only use one of the dacs at once.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Thanks for the information. My other option is to connect the Dss2 to the Jotunheim via an rca to 3.5mm cable in the interim. I know that will work. I know the dac isn't anything special in the Dss2, however.


 

 You know, we could petition Jason Stoddard to release an S/PDIF module for the Jotunheim.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> You know, we could petition Jason Stoddard to release an S/PDIF module for the Jotunheim.




Yes!!!


----------



## shuto77

Hey, @lenroot77, how do you link your X7 as a Dsp, then to a dac?


----------



## lenroot77

shuto77 said:


> Hey, @lenroot77, how do you link your X7 as a Dsp, then to a dac?




X7 outputting via toslink to Dac then to amp.


----------



## kellte2

evshrug said:


> Using the X7's optical output (with headphone surround processed signal) into a Mojo is pure giggles. The Mojo's strength in "depth" really works great with surround processing.


I can only assume the mojo blows away the X7 DAC with upgraded op-amps.


----------



## lenroot77

kellte2 said:


> I can only assume the mojo blows away the X7 DAC with upgraded op-amps.




I would guess for gaming the difference isn't as huge as one would think? At least this has been my experience with other higher end dacs...
With actual music yeah I'm sure the mojo stomps a hole in the X7.

What amazes me about the mojo is what it's capable of for its size.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Hello everyone.​  
My soundcard is Auzentech *X-Fi HomeTheater HD* with MUSE 02 op-amp and Daniel_K drivers. Gaming with *X-Fi* *CMSS-3D Headphone*. I am searching for *the best* headphones for *competitive* gaming. The game I play competitively is SWAT4, based on Unreal Engine 2, using OpenAL API.
  
The headphones I am using at the moment are Philips Fidelio X2.
  
_If you would want the best headphone for first-person shooter competitive gaming, what will you choose? The first generation of AKG K701? Or any AKG K701/K702? Or other headphone?_


----------



## cskippy

HD800


----------



## lenroot77

cskippy said:


> HD800




This! 
+1


----------



## mbyrnes

I really love my HEX V2 for gaming. Not a fan of the HD800, but I'm in the minority with my dislike!


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Thank you guys! I can't afford HD 800 at the moment. Is a first generation of AKG K701 legendary for competitive FPS gaming or not really? Going to take a look at HEX V2.
  
 Any other suggestions?


----------



## Change is Good

Head-fi, boy I tell ya...




audi03nthusiast said:


> Thank you guys! I can't afford HD 800 at the moment. Is a first generation of AKG K701 legendary for competitive FPS gaming or not really? Going to take a look at HEX V2.
> 
> Any other suggestions?




Please excuse some of the higher end suggestions. Most, here, have moved on to la la land of head-fi. I'll try to give you a more logical response...

The best headphones I've tried for FPS in a more reasonable price range are the AD700 and Q701. I'd suggest looking into the newer K702s without the bumps.


----------



## lenroot77

change is good said:


> Head-fi, boy I tell ya...
> Please excuse some of the higher end suggestions. Most, here, have moved on to la la land of head-fi. I'll try to give you a more logical response...
> 
> The best headphones I've tried for FPS in a more reasonable price range are the AD700 and Q701. I'd suggest looking into the newer K702s without the bumps.




Excuse the high end suggestions? 
He asked for "the best"

Do agree with Change here though... look for some AKG's if you are looking to keep things a little more cost effective.


----------



## Yethal

Listen not to the heathens dear @audi03nthusiast!
 Only Sennheiser HE-1 will provide the directional accuracy and soundstage that You strive for!


----------



## Zyker

I second the AD700...it's got a great soundstage and positioning. I would also suggest the AKG K7xx, which I think is pretty similar to the AD700. 

Are you looking for a closed or open set? I would imagine that open might be more difficult in a competitive setting, due to sound leakage.


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Hey, EV!
> 
> Question for you. My new X7's rca output was doa apparently, so I just put through a warranty claim (this new one is still under warranty).
> 
> I also bought a Schiit Modi Multibit and Jotunheim. If I run optical from the PS4 to the Dss2, then to the Modi, will that work? I imagine it will, but I'm not sure if double-amping the Dss2 is a bad idea.








shuto77 said:


> Thanks for the information. My other option is to connect the Dss2 to the Jotunheim via an rca to 3.5mm cable in the interim. I know that will work. I know the dac isn't anything special in the Dss2, however.
> 
> Follow up question: Would an rca splitter be a bad idea to connect to my Jotunheim? I want to connect my Modi and the Dss2 to it at the same time, but only use one of the dacs at once.


 Yeah, like Yethal said, the DSS2's USB output is more of a passthrough, and doesn't carry the headphone surround out digitally. I have used the DSS2's headphone out + 3.5mm to RCA cable + desktop amp to very good effect before. The DSS2 has noticeably less background hiss than the Recon3D, and far better than the Mixamp's. Still, I hope your X7 is repaired soon!





kellte2 said:


> I can only assume the mojo blows away the X7 DAC with upgraded op-amps.


 I'm afraid I'd be exaggerating if I said Mojo blew the upgraded X7 away... but it was better.




lenroot77 said:


> I would guess for gaming the difference isn't as huge as one would think? At least this has been my experience with other higher end dacs...
> With actual music yeah I'm sure the mojo stomps a hole in the X7.
> 
> What amazes me about the mojo is what it's capable of for its size.



The Mojo is a little more dynamic and lively, more realistically defined, which benefits all audio even if it's not in a high-res format. The Mojo's ability to reveal micro-details also really helps with the sense of depth-layering and helps the front-center not sound like a hole in the soundstage. Both the Mojo + X7 and the X7 by itself would benefit from further refinements and advancement in surround position processing, of course.


----------



## Evshrug

audi03nthusiast said:


> Thank you guys! I can't afford HD 800 at the moment. Is a first generation of AKG K701 legendary for competitive FPS gaming or not really? Going to take a look at HEX V2.
> 
> Any other suggestions?



You definitely did as for "the best" 
You'll find that the HiFiman Edition X is also priced about the same as the HD800.




lenroot77 said:


> Excuse the high end suggestions?
> He asked for "the best"
> 
> Do agree with Change here though... look for some AKG's if you are looking to keep things a little more cost effective.



I also agree. Any of the AKG K7-- or K612 series headphones will have legendary surround depth and imaging, so will the Audio's technica ATH AD700x. If Massdrop and Sennheiser do a collaborative PC37X again, that $120 headphone is priced just below the K612 and has great positional imaging, but it trades off less sheer soundstage size in favor of a warmer, more fun sound. If you can't wait for the PC37X, Sennheiser's HD5-- series will all be good well-rounded headphones too, though the HD598 supposedly will be the most sheerly competitive model (I haven't heard the HD598 personally).


----------



## Change is Good

I thought the Ether Flow Pro 1.1 Meth Wave Sigma was the best?


----------



## Evshrug

Oh I want an Ether Flow, but the pro model (the Ether Electrostat) hasn't been released yet. Sadly missed two opportunities to hear the prototype 

Buuuuuuuut yeah, the Sennheiser HE-1 would give it some polite applause, before getting up to perform and blowing away the audience!

For mere mortals, I stand by my above suggestions in my last post


----------



## cskippy

He asked for the best...without a budget restriction.  HD800 is the logical choice for positional accuracy.  Personally I actually like planars such as the M1060 and HE-6 since the sound stage isn't as artificially wide, it's natural and for games a perfect circle of 3D spatial awareness is preferred to an exaggerated elliptical for a sound stage.  
  
 Try the MA900 for a baby HD800 it's surprisingly good.
  
 EDIT:  Also wanted to update, I've had a Soundblaster Z installed for the past week and it's been amazing!  Finally surround sound where you can differentiate with certainty front and rear locations, those are always the hardest to hear.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

zyker said:


> I second the AD700...it's got a great soundstage and positioning. I would also suggest the AKG K7xx, which I think is pretty similar to the AD700.
> 
> Are you looking for a closed or open set? I would imagine that open might be more difficult in a competitive setting, due to sound leakage.


 
 Open back headphone. I'm playing at home


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Many good ideas. Going to search about them.


----------



## Zyker

audi03nthusiast said:


> Open back headphone. I'm playing at home


 
 That makes it a little easier, then.  It's a lot easier to find good, competitive gaming cans when they're open backed than when they're closed.
  
 I might also suggest the Hifiman HE-400i.  I recently upgraded from my K7XX to them and, personally, I think they do practically everything the K7XX does well but _better_.  I also think that, while their soundstage isn't nearly as large as the K7XX, they're a little more accurate when it comes to positioning, which is great for competitive gaming.   And one of the best things about them is that they can be had for as low as $250 (not sure what your budget is, though).


----------



## audi03nthusiast

zyker said:


> That makes it a little easier, then.  It's a lot easier to find good, competitive gaming cans when they're open backed than when they're closed.
> 
> I might also suggest the Hifiman HE-400i.  I recently upgraded from my K7XX to them and, personally, I think they do practically everything the K7XX does well but _better_.  I also think that, while their soundstage isn't nearly as large as the K7XX, they're a little more accurate when it comes to positioning, which is great for competitive gaming.   And one of the best things about them is that they can be had for as low as $250 (not sure what your budget is, though).


 
 My budget is, let's say, up to 300 bucks. I got Philips Fidelio X2 new for 150 bucks, I might return them and get a used Hifiman HE-400i from Ebay  Would that be a good idea?


----------



## cskippy

HE-400i is the better headphone.  You'll like them.


----------



## Zyker

audi03nthusiast said:


> My budget is, let's say, up to 300 bucks. I got Philips Fidelio X2 new for 150 bucks, I might return them and get a used Hifiman HE-400i from Ebay  Would that be a good idea?


 
 I haven't used the Fidelio X2s, so I can't speak with authority on which one is the better headphone, unfortunately... what I _do_ know is that my 400is are amazing and I love them.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

I'm basically searching for a LEGENDARY headphone for competitive FPS up to 300 bucks for a used one on ebay's auction. Mad Lust Envy claims the first generation of AKG K701 (with Dolby Headphone) is the most legendary one (among those he has tried). How does Hifiman HE-400i stand against it?


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> I'm basically searching for a LEGENDARY headphone for competitive FPS up to 300 bucks for a used one on ebay's auction. Mad Lust Envy claims the first generation of AKG K701 (with Dolby Headphone) is the most legendary one (among those he has tried). How does Hifiman HE-400i stand against it?


 

 There's an AD700 on eBay for ~$50 and that's pretty much as high as You can go so no need to spend $300 unless You'd also want some music headphones to go with the Audio-Technicas.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

yethal said:


> There's an AD700 on eBay for ~$50 and that's pretty much as high as You can go so no need to spend $300 unless You'd also want some music headphones to go with the Audio-Technicas.


 
 How about AKG K701 (7-bump headband version) compared to AD700?
  
 Mad Lust Envy: 'Remember how I felt the AD700 did something to me? How it completely changed my view on headphones and Dolby Headphone? Well, I got that same feeling again with the K701. In fact, I felt like god had given me the secret to just out right smite my enemies with the hammer of justice. The K701 to me, is pure, unadulterated, SMACKDOWN inducing OWNAGE. The very first time I used them (Modern Warfare 2), I went 2 straight 25-0 games in Free For All. I mean, holy smokes. The K701 was like wearing x-ray vision goggles for my ears. Depth, width, imaging, complete detail retrieval... it had it all. These to me, are the very vision of the perfect gaming headphone (with Dolby Headphone). I'd still place the overall positioning behind the DT770 Pro 80, and AD700, but it's on par with the HD598. We're talking about them being maybe a 9.9 instead of a 10 (which is what the 770s and AD700s are to me). Those two have NOTHING on the clarity and detail-whoring the K701 has. The bass is light, but present enough for it not to be anywhere near a complaint for me. It just works. You want my top pick for a purely godlike hardcore gaming headphone? The K70x is it.'


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> How about AKG K701 (7-bump headband version) compared to AD700?
> 
> Mad Lust Envy: 'Remember how I felt the AD700 did something to me? How it completely changed my view on headphones and Dolby Headphone? Well, I got that same feeling again with the K701. In fact, I felt like god had given me the secret to just out right smite my enemies with the hammer of justice. The K701 to me, is pure, unadulterated, SMACKDOWN inducing OWNAGE. The very first time I used them (Modern Warfare 2), I went 2 straight 25-0 games in Free For All. I mean, holy smokes. The K701 was like wearing x-ray vision goggles for my ears. Depth, width, imaging, complete detail retrieval... it had it all. These to me, are the very vision of the perfect gaming headphone (with Dolby Headphone). I'd still place the overall positioning behind the DT770 Pro 80, and AD700, but it's on par with the HD598. We're talking about them being maybe a 9.9 instead of a 10 (which is what the 770s and AD700s are to me). Those two have NOTHING on the clarity and detail-whoring the K701 has. The bass is light, but present enough for it not to be anywhere near a complaint for me. It just works. You want my top pick for a purely godlike hardcore gaming headphone? The K70x is it.'


 

 No idea, haven't heard them. But listening to Your wallet is always a good idea.


----------



## expontherise

audi03nthusiast said:


> -cut-


 
 You could check out the k7xx on massdrop for $200 brand new.. They ship every 2 days right now.
  
 I know the x2 is up there in competitive quality headphones as well... Though if you don't like them by all means, no1 will argue getting rid of them over that!


----------



## Evshrug

Muah haha! NOICE!!!





*walks up to the podium*
Hello, my name is Everett. I have an addiction.
It makes my nights awesome.


----------



## TeeReQs

Awesome. Curious to hear your take on it.


----------



## raband

Will be interested to hear your thoughts on these.
  
 I've never been able to hear frontal cues as coming more forward than my ears on any other "solution"
 (they always go from perfect behind me, get to the level of my ears and then go inside my head in a muddy, "out of polarity" mess) Same with binaural vids on youtube etc.
  
 With the GSX1000's I can get the cues at least about 30 degrees forward from my ears before they go inside 
  
 (am tipping my head/ear shape in not one of those that works with the standard models used for binaural/VSS - at least the one Sennheiser used is closer)


----------



## Evshrug

For me, SBX worked better with frontal cues than DH, DH had better rear placement but sounded more like an "effect" I had to get used to. I think a good part of the "rear hole" I hear (and Mad heard in his DT880/DT770 reviews) was due to the HTRF being based off of a typical speaker setup... where there is no rear speaker to correspond to the center speaker.

But, zap me first to finish my video about the X7 and other DSPs... I'm... starting to do that thing where I look at the work load like "will it ever get done?"

I'll get to the GSX1000, but I have more time to get to that than everything else.


----------



## AxelCloris

evshrug said:


> I'll get to the GSX1000, but I have more time to get to that than everything else.


 
  
 For me the GSX's biggest strength so far has been the detail retrieval. Very clear and concise. Plays well to positional cues.


----------



## raband

Understand totally.
  
 I need to get my whole setup together properly and have a critical listen to all the components myself but never manage to get round to the 1st step - usually just leaving the "latest and greatest" or newest plugged in :S
  
 I know I'm crippling myself in the meantime with what I should be listening to, but damn, life gets busy at times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You guys are definitely free to edit and upgrade the guide, as long as edits/reviews made by other people are specifically mentioned. I trust you guys to do things right. I check in so rarely, and wish mods would allow editing privileges to some of you for the first page to keep it current.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

mad lust envy said:


> You guys are definitely free to edit and upgrade the guide, as long as edits/reviews made by other people are specifically mentioned. I trust you guys to do things right. I check in so rarely, and wish mods would allow editing privileges to some of you for the first page to keep it current.


 
 Hello MLE. I love your guide. Spent countless amount of hours reading it. Do you still suggest 1th generation (7-bump headband version) of AKG K701 as the best choice for ultimate competitive FPS headphone?  I have Ti-HD and HomeTheater HD.


----------



## raband

Hello MLE. I wish I'd never read your guide 
  
 You got me started down a very long, very expensive road.
  

  
 /sarcasm
  
 Fantastic resource - this page (and those of a couple of the regular posters in here) are daily check-in's for me.
  
 I wish there was such a great resource for my other hobbies - huge appreciation from here.


----------



## Fegefeuer

mad lust envy said:


> You guys are definitely free to edit and upgrade the guide, as long as edits/reviews made by other people are specifically mentioned. I trust you guys to do things right. I check in so rarely, and wish mods would allow editing privileges to some of you for the first page to keep it current.


 
  
 No, you should do reviews from time to time, even when it's only 2 in a year. I think this thread should be about your reviews only, no offense to others. There could a another thread someone like Axel, Ev, Yezel and Co. should create, format and display with links to reviews. I could record a few DHP SBX videos, others GSX and Co. Even when the new thread emerges to be a successor to this one, this guide should remain yours.


----------



## Yethal

fegefeuer said:


> No, you should do reviews from time to time, even when it's only 2 in a year. I think this thread should be about your reviews only, no offense to others. There could a another thread someone like Axel, Ev, Yezel and Co. should create, format and display with links to reviews. I could record a few DHP SBX videos, others GSX and Co. Even when the new thread emerges to be a successor to this one, this guide should remain yours.


 

 I second that, the fact that all reviews in the guide were written by one guy helps to establish a baseline for new users.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> I second that, the fact that all reviews in the guide were written by one guy helps to establish a baseline for new users.


 

 I third that, but I'm just really prone to peer pressure


----------



## Yethal

I'll use the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X as an example. Mad didn't review this headset but he did review the HD598 upon which the PC37X is based. Below are Mad's scores for this headphone.
  
 Fun: 6.5/10 (Pretty Decent)
 Competitive: 9.25/10 (Amazing)
 Comfort: 7.25/10 (Good)
  


> You all know it as an improved HD595, which is a consistent fave among gamers, especially those who use virtual surround amps like the Mixamp. My opinion? The hype is well justified, at least when it comes to the HD598. They are incredibly well balanced. Somewhat bass neutral, mids are pretty up front and center, and neutral treble (never harsh) translates to a very promising headphone for gaming on paper. And I'm happy to report that they are ABSOLUTELY phenomenal for gaming. They belong right up there with the best for competitive gaming. Soundstage? Check. Positional accuracy? Double check. Detail retrieval? Triple check. The trifecta. It's missing very little for those needs. The bass may be a bit too laid back for those wanting some immersion in their non-competitive gaming however.


 
  
 PC37X has more bass than HD598 and, based on the fact that the highest scoring headphones on the guide are bass-light AD700 and K701 we can estimate that the added bass would lower the Competitive score by, 1,25 point (based on the difference between similar sounding K701 and K712). However it would also raise the Fun score by, 2,25 points (again, based on the K701 vs K712 difference)
  


> Comfort-wise: It's a hit or miss. The pads are huge and give your ears plenty of space to breathe. My issue is mostly with the clamp. Sennheiser just seems to design some pretty clampy headphones. Like the PC360, the only way I can find them comfy is to over extend them, and give them a loose fit. The headband padding is full on pleather, which is less comfortable than the PC360's velour padding.


 
  
 From this we can conclude that Mad didn't like the clamp and the leather padding. PC37X is also a pretty clampy headphone, but it uses a velour padding on the headband. Moreover, PC360 headset also uses a velour padding, and has a 7.5 score so we can give them 7.5 for comfort using Mad's scale.
  
 PC37X estimated score:
 Fun: 8.75/10 (Great)
 Competitive: 8/10 (Very Good)
 Comfort: 7.5/10 (Good)
  
 I know these aren't the most accurate estimations in the world but I hope you get my point.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> I'll use the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X as an example. Mad didn't review this headset but he did review the HD598 upon which the PC37X is based. Below are Mad's scores for this headphone.
> 
> Fun: 6.5/10 (Pretty Decent)
> Competitive: 9.25/10 (Amazing)
> ...


 

 I currently have the 50 Ohm version of the Game One which is from a similar background as the PC 360/PC 37X (there's a bunch of Sennheiser headsets and headphones that tend to get lumped in together due to shared hardware).
  
 I'm still currently evaluating them and haven't arrived at a conclusion. What I will say though is that they aren't how I expected them to be when taking into consideration headphones they've been compared to and how those headphones have been described. I'm wondering if despite shared hardware there is more than meets the eye in regards to how they've been tuned.
  
 I've read comments saying that the Game One is basically like a 598 or other 500 series headphone, just with a mic attached. From reading reviews and user comments on those headphones, I just don't seem to having the same experience.


----------



## Yethal

napalmhardcore said:


> I currently have the 50 Ohm version of the Game One which is from a similar background as the PC 360/PC 37X (there's a bunch of Sennheiser headsets and headphones that tend to get lumped in together due to shared hardware).
> 
> I'm still currently evaluating them and haven't arrived at a conclusion. What I will say though is that they aren't how I expected them to be when taking into consideration headphones they've been compared to and how those headphones have been described. I'm wondering if despite shared hardware there is more than meets the eye in regards to how they've been tuned.
> 
> I've read comments saying that the Game One is basically like a 598 or other 500 series headphone, just with a mic attached. From reading reviews and user comments on those headphones, I just don't seem to having the same experience.


 

 Shared driver does not imply the exact same sound signature. The earcups and pads also make a big difference. There are some similarities between the HD598 and PC37X (soundstage and positioning) but there are some noticeable differences (mainly the bass).


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> Shared driver does not imply the exact same sound signature. The earcups and pads also make a big difference. There are some similarities between the HD598 and PC37X (soundstage and positioning) but there are some noticeable differences (mainly the bass).


 

 I totally agree. I guess part of the point of my post to warn others that some of the comments floating around the internet regarding these headphones/headsets should be taken with a pinch of salt.
  
 I've often seen posts saying "X headset is the exact same thing as X headphone just with a mic" on the basis that they share a driver. There's no substitute for first hand experience, and I've seen too many cases (not here) of people recommending or damning a product with no first hand experience of it because they have tried a headphone/headset that shares the same driver.
  
 I bought the Game One for a few reasons. While I have the Hyper X Cloud 2, I wanted an open back headset (especially for the summer when something a bit more breathable will be nice). Secondly, I've long been curious about it and some of the headphones it has been compared to, so I thought I could kill two birds with one stone. Lastly, I've tried the Modmic route before and it wasn't my cup of tea, so I wanted to have more than one headset option for when I fancied a change of pace so to speak.
  
 For the purpose of having an open back headset and having two different headsets for when I fancy a change, mission accomplished. However, if my only goal had been to basically buy a headset version of the HD 598, I think I'd have been left a bit disappointed as the Game One doesn't seem to match the descriptions of the HD 598's sound that I've read.


----------



## mbyrnes

The differences with the PC37X compared to the PC360 are drastic. Nowhere near the same headphone. I'll be doing some K702 Annie's vs PC37X comparisons very soon. Fun for me definitely goes to the Sennheiser's, but I want to nail down the other differences and which I would recommend for each category. PC37X is no joke, and at $119 it is an awesome deal.


----------



## mbyrnes

Come to a South Philly meet! 

I'll have a VSS setup on an Xbox One S, with Blu-ray movies along with games. Great chance to hear an X7 vs Astro Mixamp. Very nice gear going to be there as well. Yes, shameless promotion, but I'm happy to have people pop in with no gear. Come have fun, meet members, and listen to hear you've only read about!


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I'll use the Massdrop x Sennheiser PC37X as an example. Mad didn't review this headset but he did review the HD598 upon which the PC37X is based. Below are Mad's scores for this headphone.
> 
> Fun: 6.5/10 (Pretty Decent)
> Competitive: 9.25/10 (Amazing)
> ...


 
  
  
 Are we sure, like definitely sure that the PC37X is based of the HD598? Same goes for the PC373D that comes with the USB dongle?
  
 I am already confused with what the PC360 is based of and the PC363D. Especially since there is an impedance difference with the PC363D which is at 32ohm I believe.
  
 HD558/HD598 should be using the same driver but tuned differently?
  
 It's late and I'm tired but this question has been bugging me lol


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Are we sure, like definitely sure that the PC37X is based of the HD598? Same goes for the PC373D that comes with the USB dongle?
> 
> I am already confused with what the PC360 is based of and the PC363D. Especially since there is an impedance difference with the PC363D which is at 32ohm I believe.
> 
> ...


 

 I opened them up and the driver looked almost identical to the HD598 one. PC373D and PC37X are the exact same headphone but with different cable so by extension it would be based on HD598 too.
 The entire HD5X8 series used the same driver, the only difference between them was the shape of the plastic grill on the cups and the fact that HD558 had black tape on the inside of the earcup. Removing that tape made it more similar to the HD598 IIRC.


----------



## Evshrug

See, I don't know everything, and I'm not a speaker/headphone/driver designer, but I wonder... might headphones and even drivers be tuned differently even if the drivers look identical?

I haven't read much about the HD518 or HD515, but it was commonly said that an HD555 could be made to sound the same or almost the same as the HD595 if a taped-on felt ring was removed from the HD555. Now, with the HD558 and 98, some people say a simple mod produces a similar sound, some people say it makes them closer, or that you don't end up with the same result at all.

What if the plastic membrane used for the driver looked the same, visually, but it was shaped differently or the magnets were arranged differently, or it stretched differently, resulting in a different frequency curve. These are potential unknowns. Something that does make a difference, a higher the price usually relates to more stringent driver selection. This may mean the two earcups will perform more symmetrically, or that a driver is higher performance and closer to a target performance. That could also explain some sound differences.

In the end, the PC37X totally surprised me because it didn't sound at all like I imagined from HD598 reviews. If anyone could figure out how to tweak a headphone driver in different ways, it's Sennheiser (and experienced modders).


----------



## Yethal

One way to settle this. One of us needs to go and buy hd598 and do a proper comparison.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

yethal said:


> One way to settle this. One of us needs to go and buy hd598 and do a proper comparison.


 

 Well it won't be me simply because if I did get the 598 and it does sound like the Game One, I would have wasted my money.
  
 I have given the Game One a good amount of time to win me over while listening to music and I just don't like it. I will keep it strictly on gaming duty from now on. Actually it has nice synergy for gaming when combined with the Mixamp as that has quite a thick sound and the bass seems more pronounced in comparison to regular stereo or SBX Studio virtual surround. The Game Ones are the most bass light of all my current sound equipment (speakers and headphones/earphones) and I feel they benefit from the Mixamp's sound signature.
  
 I was hoping it would do double duty as a gaming headset and for listening to music, but it just isn't my cup of tea when it comes to the latter.


----------



## Evshrug

yethal said:


> One way to settle this. One of us needs to go and buy hd598 and do a proper comparison.



Someone offered to send me a HD598; I think I'm just out of time and have too many personal projects to do first if I do have time.


Napalmhardcore
Dude! Are you on the Heavy metal thread? I think that thread would be right up your alley if you haven't been there yet! I also don't feel like the HD 598 would be my first recommendation for you. That's all based on reading other peoples views, not personal experience.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> Someone offered to send me a HD598; I think I'm just out of time and have too many personal projects to do first if I do have time.
> 
> 
> @Napalmhardcore
> Dude! Are you on the Heavy metal thread? I think that thread would be right up your alley if you haven't been there yet! I also don't feel like the HD 598 would be my first recommendation for you. That's all based on reading other peoples views, not personal experience.


 

 Despite my user name, I'm not really into metal (in fact there's a stupidly boring reason why I have that user name) lol.
  
 I don't think I'm a basshead either (though I'm not sure as I haven't owned any headphones with a reputation for emphasised bass, so it's possible I'm a latent basshead I suppose).
  
 So far I've aimed for neutral headphones. It seems to me that the term neutral has a lot of room for interpretation as the headphones I own certainly seem to have differing proportions of bass, mids and highs. One of the big reasons I got the HD 600s (which I love) is that for a lot of people they are considered the benchmark for neutral with a touch of warmth. They certainly remind me the most of listening to a nice pair of speakers. Nice speakers as in: I can't afford them but I get to listen to them at work nice (my job is selling TVs, hi-fi and other electrical gear). The AKG K240 MKiis also are described as neutral and I can see why too in the respect that you can hear every instrument individually and no frequencies seem to dominate or interfere with others. However, I find in real life, bass frequencies do seem to engulf you slightly and other frequencies kind of punch through it. The HD 600s seem to deliver that better whereas the K240 is more aloof in the way it delivers bass. It's really hard to describe. I guess you could say the music blends more cohesively and naturally (or at least musically) with the HD 600s. The AKGs beat it for pure detail retrieval and instrument separation, so I guess you could call them more analytical (but still extremely pleasant to listen to).
  
 I've recently identified one slight problem I have with the AKGs though. I think the driver sits further towards the back of my head due to the ear cups/pads. This results in a lack of positional accuracy and an artificially wide soundstage. Even without any DSP, I sometimes get the impression that certain sounds are coming from slightly behind me as opposed to the instruments playing in a semi-circle in front/to the sides of me. It's like taking a step or two inside that semi-circle (if that makes any sense at all). Therefore, they aren't great for gaming as I misplace cues sometimes.
  
 I bought the Cloud 2s because I was curious about the hype, wanted something closed back to round out my collection and wanted a headset as the Modmic isn't my cup of tea. I was really pleasantly surprised. My first set unfortunately had a channel imbalance. I actually thought my warranty had expired by the time I arrived at the conclusion that it wasn't just ear irritation that I was suffering at the time (in retrospect, I think it was the imbalance that caused the irritation as I kept having spasms in my right ear which I think was trying to compensate for the fact that the left channel was quieter). Turned out the warranty was for two years (I thought it was six months). I originally contacted them asking whether it would be cost effective to send them for repair, but they told me I was still in warranty and sent out a new set within a day of contacting them and didn't want me to return the defective set. Their customer support is pretty awesome.
  
 Anyway, back to the Cloud 2. They're just plain good value for money. With the leather/pleather/leatherette or whatever it is, they are really enjoyable for music listening and great for gaming. Aside from the defect in my first pair, between the build quality, accessories and sound quality I'm really happy with them.
  
 PS: I know things can be hard to interpret on the internet. Just making sure you know my first paragraph (or the rest of this post for that matter) isn't me being defensive. Just conversing


----------



## Napalmhardcore

@Evshrug I edited my post (a few times actually due to typos). Not sure which version you read. Admittedly I was originally only going to post the first line but got caught up talking about all my headphones lol.


----------



## t041987

Hi

I am choosing a new headphone for fps such as battlefield 1 and rainbow6 just focus on actual positioning.

Now there has shure srh1840, razer kraken 7.1 and steelseries H wireless. I can listen the direction in front but can't listen behide of me. Also, these headphone is not good at actual positioning in game. 

Many gamer choosing ath ad700x for fps gaming. Is ad700x good at positioning and better than my headphone?

Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

t041987 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am choosing a new headphone for fps such as battlefield 1 and rainbow6 just focus on actual positioning.
> 
> ...




What surround processor are you using for the 1840? To me it's one of,if not, the best at surround imaging/positioning for open headphones I've tried under $500. Better than my 400i I currently own.

If you are only using 2 channel streo with the Shures then that's why you hear nothing behind you. You can use $1000+ headphones and still not hear anything behind you without surround. As for those headsets, I'm assuming the imaging is weak because of they're just not that good at positional cues.


----------



## t041987

change is good said:


> What surround processor are you using for the 1840? To me it's one of,if not, the best at surround imaging/positioning for open headphones I've tried under $500. Better than my 400i I currently own.
> 
> If you are only using 2 channel streo with the Shures then that's why you hear nothing behind you. You can use $1000+ headphones and still not hear anything behind you without surround. As for those headsets, I'm assuming the imaging is weak because of they're just not that good at positional cues.



Using ifi idsd for 1840 because this combo is just for listen music before choosing fps headphone. lol
I haven't try 5.1/7.1 surround dac for 1840. It's that any suggestion for me?

Also, ad700x good at actual posioioning because it is base on using 5.1/7.1 surround dac?


----------



## Change is Good

t041987 said:


> Also, ad700x good at actual posioioning because it is base on using 5.1/7.1 surround dac?




That is correct. There's quite a few choices for surround processors, but I personally just use a mixamp 5.8 on my PS4. If you want better quality, is PC/console compatible, has more perks, and a better amp then get the Creative X7. Keep your 1840 to use with that. Sell/give away the other headsets.


----------



## RXShadow

napalmhardcore said:


> I currently have the 50 Ohm version of the Game One which is from a similar background as the PC 360/PC 37X (there's a bunch of Sennheiser headsets and headphones that tend to get lumped in together due to shared hardware).
> 
> I'm still currently evaluating them and haven't arrived at a conclusion. What I will say though is that they aren't how I expected them to be when taking into consideration headphones they've been compared to and how those headphones have been described. I'm wondering if despite shared hardware there is more than meets the eye in regards to how they've been tuned.
> 
> I've read comments saying that the Game One is basically like a 598 or other 500 series headphone, just with a mic attached. From reading reviews and user comments on those headphones, I just don't seem to having the same experience.


 
  
 Having tried both the 598 and Game Ones, I can pretty much say that there is no similarities between them. I would say the Game One is more similar to the 555/558. I'm not sure which reviews you have seen, but I'm pretty much with you on the analogy as well.
  
 My only question now is where does the PC37x fit into the specturm. If it's very close to the 598 and a huge improvement to the game one, then you can count me in to also buy it as well. I just hope to get a confirmation before I pull the trigger though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

t041987 said:


> Using ifi idsd for 1840 because this combo is just for listen music before choosing fps headphone. lol
> I haven't try 5.1/7.1 surround dac for 1840. It's that any suggestion for me?
> 
> Also, AD700X good at actual positioning because it is base on using 5.1/7.1 surround DAC?


 
  
 I believe the ATH-AD700X main design was for music and to just happens to be really good for surround sound (best guess).
 I believe it's the AD700X's light bass, that allows users to hear details in the other areas of audio.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Hello everyone.
  
 Creative X-Fi Titanium HD
 Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD
  
 Which one of those do you consider as a better one and why?


----------



## audi03nthusiast

purpleangel said:


> I believe the ATH-AD700X main design was for music and to just happens to be really good for surround sound (best guess).
> I believe it's the AD700X's light bass, that allows users to hear details in the other areas of audio.


 
 Isn't AKG K701 K702 Q701 better for that purpose?


----------



## Yethal

PC37X is available on Massdrop again:
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset
  
  


t041987 said:


> Using ifi idsd for 1840 because this combo is just for listen music before choosing fps headphone. lol
> I haven't try 5.1/7.1 surround dac for 1840. It's that any suggestion for me?
> 
> Also, ad700x good at actual posioioning because it is base on using 5.1/7.1 surround dac?


 

 Hi. nice to finally meet another 1840 user, I thought I was the only one. Seriously, try them with virtual surround their positional accuracy is excellent.


----------



## Evshrug

Drat Yethal, was just going to post the same thing! Looks like the PC37X are dropping at $120 free shipping in the USA again, limit 600 units.

Here's the PC37X thread for discussion and reviews. I know the much-hyped HD6XX drop hasn't happened again, so honestly I'm surprised but pleased this is back so soon.

I may actually be able to borrow an HD598 soon, or the new HD599.

Also saw a cool video about a dj creating surround music, live, while browsing the Sennheiser site, pretty cool: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/shape-the-future-of-audio-paul-oomen
It's a 4D audio stage... no only can the audience hear locational sound left/right/front/back/up/down, but it also sounds different depending on where you are standing on the stage.


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> Drat Yethal, was just going to post the same thing! Looks like the PC37X are dropping at $120 free shipping in the USA again, limit 600 units.
> 
> Here's the PC37X thread for discussion and reviews. I know the much-hyped HD6XX drop hasn't happened again, so honestly I'm surprised but pleased this is back so soon.
> 
> ...


 

 Word of caution on the HD599, it's much darker than the HD598, transition between the two wasn't a simple linear improvement.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Word of caution on the HD599, it's much darker than the HD598, transition between the two wasn't a simple linear improvement.


 
  
 Out of curiosity, is it any good for metal? Is it faster, and is the treble rolled-off more?


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Out of curiosity, is it any good for metal? Is it faster, and is the treble rolled-off more?



There is definitely more low-end so it's better than 598 unless You're into djent or grindcore in which case look somewhere else.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> There is definitely more low-end so it's better than 598 unless You're into djent or grindcore in which case look somewhere else.


 
  
 Yeah, I'm always looking for headphones that do both equally well, but unfortunately, you have spend a lot of money to make that happen. The closest I've seen  that isn't stratospherically expensive is the new Beyerdynamic DT1990, but that usually runs about $500, which isn't cheap. It is a very good headphone, however.

 It's much cheaper to just get one headphone good for each.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Yeah, I'm always looking for headphones that do both equally well, but unfortunately, you have spend a lot of money to make that happen. The closest I've seen  that isn't stratospherically expensive is the new Beyerdynamic DT1990, but that usually runs about $500, which isn't cheap. It is a very good headphone, however.
> 
> 
> It's much cheaper to just get one headphone good for each.



Do what I plan to do and buy just the drivers straight from beyerdynamic and put them in some cheaper enclosure.


----------



## shuto77

yethal said:


> Do what I plan to do and buy just the drivers straight from beyerdynamic and put them in some cheaper enclosure.




I'm no good with modding. Both of my op-amp projects have ended in failure, lol. 

I'd much rather pay you to mod something for me.


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


> I opened them up and the driver looked almost identical to the HD598 one. PC373D and PC37X are the exact same headphone but with different cable so by extension it would be based on HD598 too.
> The entire HD5X8 series used the same driver, the only difference between them was the shape of the plastic grill on the cups and the fact that HD558 had black tape on the inside of the earcup. Removing that tape made it more similar to the HD598 IIRC.


 
  


evshrug said:


> See, I don't know everything, and I'm not a speaker/headphone/driver designer, but I wonder... might headphones and even drivers be tuned differently even if the drivers look identical?
> 
> I haven't read much about the HD518 or HD515, but it was commonly said that an HD555 could be made to sound the same or almost the same as the HD595 if a taped-on felt ring was removed from the HD555. Now, with the HD558 and 98, some people say a simple mod produces a similar sound, some people say it makes them closer, or that you don't end up with the same result at all.
> 
> ...


 
  
 Interesting.....
  
  


yethal said:


> One way to settle this. One of us needs to go and buy hd598 and do a proper comparison.


 
  
 Well, I have 2 HD598 and hopefully when the PC37X goes on sale again on massdrop, I will more likely get one and give my comparison eventually.Although I could also see if I can get a PC373D but would return it eventually lol.


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86 said:


> Interesting.....
> 
> Well, I have 2 HD598 and hopefully when the PC37X goes on sale again on massdrop, I will more likely get one and give my comparison eventually.Although I could also see if I can get a PC373D but would return it eventually lol.




You saw that the PC37X drops again today, right?


----------



## TeeReQs

@rudyae86 PC37X is live on Massdrop again.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> You saw that the PC37X drops again today, right?


 
  


teereqs said:


> @rudyae86 PC37X is live on Massdrop again.


 
  
 lol Just saw it. Damn! I wasn't ready for this haha.
  
 I was expecting it to drop around summer when I had more funds lol
  
 I will probably have to skip this one. I am sure there will be many drops for the PC37X in the coming months.
  
 Edit: On a side note, I read through some of the earlier post on the HD598 comparison to the G4ME ONE.....I also agree that both do not sound similar at all and that the G4ME ONE sounds more like the HD558. I remember comparing both and I still like the HD598 far more than the G4ME ONE.
  
 I trust Yethal's ears on how he describes the PC37X sounds like, so I am really intrigued as to how it sounds similar to a HD598.
  
 Yethal....I though you had an HD598 SE?


----------



## Evshrug

rudyae86,
I just asked a contact of mine if I could borrow a pair of HD598. Put the two head-to-head. I imagine the PC37X will sound different, warmer.


----------



## t041987

yethal said:


> PC37X is available on Massdrop again:
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset
> 
> 
> ...



I dont know why there are few 1840 enthusiast. It sounds good and cheap(now not release)

By the way, i know the 1840 positional is good and I had order a GSX1000 for playing battlefield 1 and R6S. It seems a good dac & amp for virtual 7.1.

How about PC37X/PC373D performance? Massdrop had open and I am quite interesting compare with 1840 in virtual surround. PC37X have internal mic and seems good.


----------



## t041987

purpleangel said:


> I believe the ATH-AD700X main design was for music and to just happens to be really good for surround sound (best guess).
> I believe it's the AD700X's light bass, that allows users to hear details in the other areas of audio.



I agree for light bass will not chaos and easy to listen the footstep. But I think light bass will not improve the positional. Quite hard to explain(?)




audi03nthusiast said:


> Isn't AKG K701 K702 Q701 better for that purpose?



In my weakly impression AKG and ATH sound sigmature quite similar. But I dot like theses sound and not fans so I cant comment with these headphone.


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> @rudyae86,
> I just asked a contact of mine if I could borrow a pair of HD598. Put the two head-to-head. I imagine the PC37X will sound different, warmer.


 
 Niiice! I look forward to your comparison between the two but surely, both will sound different. I mean, I would not be surprised if the PC37X is warmer which is not a bad thing as long as it still retains those clear mids and highs I like about the HD598.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> I'm no good with modding. Both of my op-amp projects have ended in failure, lol.
> 
> I'd much rather pay you to mod something for me.


 

 Lol no, I learn stuff by trial and error so until I do it with my own cans I won't risk damaging somebody else's. But if I manage to mod my cans this way without damaging them then sure.
  


t041987 said:


> I dont know why there are few 1840 enthusiast. It sounds good and cheap(now not release)
> 
> By the way, i know the 1840 positional is good and I had order a GSX1000 for playing battlefield 1 and R6S. It seems a good dac & amp for virtual 7.1.
> 
> How about PC37X/PC373D performance? Massdrop had open and I am quite interesting compare with 1840 in virtual surround. PC37X have internal mic and seems good.


 
  
 Because Shure does not advertise them as audiophile headphones, they don't come to audio shows, the cans were overpriced at launched, and because Tyll didn't like them.
  
 PC37X is pretty great for it's price and the added mic is very convenient. Positional accuracy is not as good as Shure's but it's like 1/4 of its price so that was expected.


rudyae86 said:


> I trust Yethal's ears on how he describes the PC37X sounds like, so I am really intrigued as to how it sounds similar to a HD598.
> 
> Yethal....I though you had an HD598 SE?


 

 No, I has the regular version, but I cut the plastic grill out of the cups so mine sounded a bit different from the stock HD598. Also, remember that I sold my HD598 almost a year ago co my comparison was based on how I _remember _the HD598 sounds.


----------



## m3t4lm4n222

I'm considering grabbing the PC37X's, but it's a tough choice between these, The 558's on sale at Best Buy and a boom mic, or the Phillips SPH9500 and a V-Moda BoomPro.


----------



## t041987

yethal said:


> Because Shure does not advertise them as audiophile headphones, they don't come to audio shows, the cans were overpriced at launched, and because Tyll didn't like them.
> 
> PC37X is pretty great for it's price and the added mic is very convenient. Positional accuracy is not as good as Shure's but it's like 1/4 of its price so that was expected.


 
 Thank you for answer
  
 Ordered PC37X and sennheiser GSX1000 !
 But should be waiting a long time


----------



## Yethal

m3t4lm4n222 said:


> I'm considering grabbing the PC37X's, but it's a tough choice between these, The 558's on sale at Best Buy and a boom mic, or the Phillips SPH9500 and a V-Moda BoomPro.


 

 Pick one with best return policy. If You don't like them, return and repeat until You find cans that you like.


----------



## TeeReQs

m3t4lm4n222 said:


> I'm considering grabbing the PC37X's, but it's a tough choice between these, The 558's on sale at Best Buy and a boom mic, or the Phillips SPH9500 and a V-Moda BoomPro.


 
 The 9500's are pretty good for the price. You wouldn't be out too much if you don't like them, and they're easy to sell if you can't return them.


----------



## expontherise

t041987 said:


> I dont know why there are few 1840 enthusiast. It sounds good and cheap(now not release)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


Hm, I wish I thought $500 was 'cheap' lol


----------



## Evshrug

Cheaper? Compared to release.


----------



## Yethal

expontherise said:


> t041987 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know why there are few 1840 enthusiast. It sounds good and cheap(now not release)
> ...


 

 Wait till You see the pricetag on HE-1


----------



## SomeGuyDude

yethal said:


> Wait till You see the pricetag on HE-1


 
 People are aware that stupidly expensive stuff exists, but it's still hard to ever claim dropping $500 on a set is "cheap" y'know?


----------



## Yethal

someguydude said:


> People are aware that stupidly expensive stuff exists, but it's still hard to ever claim dropping $500 on a set is "cheap" y'know?


 

 I'm pretty sure the guy who called them cheap actually meant "cheaper than what they used to cost when they launched".


----------



## t041987

yethal said:


> I'm pretty sure the guy who called them cheap actually meant "cheaper than what they used to cost when they launched".


 
 Thank you for explanation for me and sorry for misunderstanding.
 Also, I don't remember actual price. I think the price should be 300~350 USD


----------



## fonkepala

evshrug said:


> Nah, I just use a Blue Microphone's Snowball. Plugging something into the controller will at least steal both the chat input and output, so to hear your friends you would have to have a mess of splitters and adapters. Using a USB desktop mic (like the Blue) is much simpler, because all the chat and game output is sent through the PS4's optical out and you get to keep your controller wireless.


 
  
 Hi there. Would like to get more clarification on this. So tell me if I'm getting this right...you're using a Mojo connected via optical cable to your PS4. Your headphone is connected to the Mojo via headphone out for all in-game sounds & incoming voice chat.  For outgoing voice chat, you use a Blue Snowball USB mic hooked up to your PS4's USB port. Does the PS4 recognize the Blue Snowball as a USB mic and does voice chat work as intended this way? All other in-game sounds can be heard on your headphones with no issue?
  
 I'm currently scratching my head, not sure how I can get a mic to work with my setup. Which is PS4 > optical cable > Fiio D03K DAC > line out > Fiio Q1 DAC/amp > Superlux HD668B headphones. Sounds great & the wire mess isn't too bad but all I'm missing is mic functionality. I've tried using standalone mics connected to the DualShock 4's audio 3.5mm jack, Y splitter connected to the Fiio Q1, Kingston Hyperx Cloud 2 USB soundcard connected via USB to PS4 & then 3.5mm connected to that...all of that didn't work. Either the PS4 doesn't detect the mic or the mic is detected but I lose some in game sound, etc. Have messed around with settings "output to headphones" changed from' all audio' to 'chat only' but also to no avail.
  
 Appreciate any feedback, thanks in advance!


----------



## audi03nthusiast

guys, what's the best choice price to performance mic for competitive gaming? modmic, blue snowball, blue yeti? or something else?


----------



## Napalmhardcore

For competitive gaming, I'd say you'd probably be best off with the Modmic. If you intend to start a Youtube channel or stream then the Snowball and Yeti offer a similar price to performance ratio.


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> guys, what's the best choice price to performance mic for competitive gaming? modmic, blue snowball, blue yeti? or something else?


 

 I wouldn't bother with the desktop ones unless make money with your voice.
  
 Here's Modmic:

  
 And here's BoomPro for comparison:

  
 Pick one that's least painful to setup.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Maybe some of us have a similar interest in microphones that we have in headphones. 
  
 I admit there's a weird irony in audiophiles dropping real money on headphones then using a garbage Snowball.


----------



## Yethal

someguydude said:


> Maybe some of us have a similar interest in microphones that we have in headphones.
> 
> I admit there's a weird irony in audiophiles dropping real money on headphones then using a garbage Snowball.




I feel the same every time I see a guy with GTX1080 and liquid cooled CPU using an onboard soundcard and Razer headset.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

someguydude said:


> Maybe some of us have a similar interest in microphones that we have in headphones.
> 
> I admit there's a weird irony in audiophiles dropping real money on headphones then using a garbage Snowball.


 

 Just curious what your pick would be at the same price as the Snowball.


----------



## Change is Good

someguydude said:


> Maybe some of us have a similar interest in microphones that we have in headphones.
> 
> I admit there's a weird irony in audiophiles dropping real money on headphones then using a garbage Snowball.







yethal said:


> I feel the same every time I see a guy with GTX1080 and liquid cooled CPU using an onboard soundcard and Razer headset.




This is how I feel when people ask about (or are recommended) top the line $1000+ headphones for gaming on a console.


----------



## mbyrnes

change is good said:


> This is how I feel when people ask about (or are recommended) top the line $1000+ headphones for gaming on a console.




I have no issue if people are looking for something in that price bracket. Granted music reproduction should also be a huge factor. I've been playing with the M1060 lately and for $300, it's got a lot going for it. Should be modding them with vegan pads very soon, which people claim it makes them extremely good (along with some paper towel pieces).


----------



## Change is Good

mbyrnes said:


> I have no issue if people are looking for something in that price bracket. Granted music reproduction should also be a huge factor. I've been playing with the M1060 lately and for $300, it's got a lot going for it. Should be modding them with vegan pads very soon, which people claim it makes them extremely good (along with some paper towel pieces).




The price bracket isn't the issue, it's matching it with a console. You don't have many options for processors, there. So why drop that much cash for low cost gaming and audio devices.

The X7 and Realizer will work on consoles for top of the line headphones, but it will most likey need to be on a desktop setup. Most console players don't play on a desktop.


----------



## mbyrnes

change is good said:


> The price bracket isn't the issue, it's matching it with a console. You don't have many options for processors, there. So why drop that much cash for low cost gaming and audio devices.
> 
> The X7 and Realizer will work on consoles for top of the line headphones, but it will most likey need to be on a desktop setup. Most console players don't play on a desktop.




I've built quite the collection, and my Hifiman HEX V2 is the best headphone I have for surround. I use a creative X7, into a MicroZOTL2 and it's wonderful for gaming and movies. Far better than my Astro Mixamp. It's it as good as the A16? Hell no, but it is truly a great experience. Now I have other headphones that are good, but nothing at all like the HEX. Closest would be the M1060 or TH-X00 Ebony. Those are a big step up from DT990, AKG K702 Annies, or many other entry level/mid-fi level headphones. 

Very impressed with the X7, especially with Sparkos op amps. Fed into the MicroZOTL2, the problem is the source, if anything. This setup beats most 5.1 surround sound systems I've ever heard, which is an extensive list. 

Headphones IMO get a raw deal, they can easily outmatch many home stereo systems with ease. Many headphones, including low cost headphones and decoders that are a fraction of the cost, outperform their stereo counterparts. 

I'm holding a meet in a two weeks in South Philly. I'm most excited about showing surround sound gaming on an entry level system. I'll have movies on Blu-ray as well. City living kills true surround systems here. You don't have to give it up, and it may be better than what a similar priced stereo would cost.


----------



## Change is Good

Well, here goes my attempt in reviewing the SHP9500.
  
 http://www.head-fi.org/products/philips-shp9500/reviews/18245
  
 Hope you all enjoy the read!


----------



## AxelCloris

I dunno about you guys, but I game with a Shure KSM27 and KSM8. Also a Sennheiser AVX MKE2. And the Blue Snowball, Blueberry and Kiwi. And a cheap-as-chips generic dynamic from some company I cannot remember.


----------



## Evshrug

fonkepala said:


> Hi there. Would like to get more clarification on this. So tell me if I'm getting this right.... Does the PS4 recognize the Blue Snowball as a USB mic and does voice chat work as intended this way? All other in-game sounds can be heard on your headphones with no issue?



Yes, the PS4 recognizes the Blue as a USB mic, and since it's just an input, all the chat and game audio go out through HDMI and optical (I hook up the optical to my X7, and sometimes I hook up my Mojo to the X7 just because I can).




yethal said:


> I wouldn't bother with the desktop ones unless make money with your voice.
> 
> Pick one that's least painful to setup.



I agree with this sentiment. I'm mostly just talking to friends, so far never trying to make money with my voice, so I just need a mic that is clear enough and doesn't cause an annoying background whine. If someone is streaming a lot, or DOES want to make money with their voice, then yeah get a nice mic, but a nice Mic will cost plenty more than a USB Snowball (~$35 used) or 3.5mm lapel mic as I used to use (~$7 for a 3-pack).

I game with my PC & PS4 at a desk because a monitor is more responsive than a TV, and I can leave out all my kit at the ready. Others might prefer to play on a couch, where a headphone-mounted mic or lapel mic is easier to position.




someguydude said:


> Maybe some of us have a similar interest in microphones that we have in headphones.
> 
> I admit there's a weird irony in audiophiles dropping real money on headphones then using a garbage Snowball.



One could do FAR worse than a snowball...
But if you have different goals than me, by all means spend your money  there are GREAT mics out there that sound fantastic. Someday, I might get one of those Sennheisers and a proper shock-mount.




napalmhardcore said:


> Just curious what your pick would be at the same price as the Snowball.



That's the thing, not many decent options at the Snowball's low price. I guess something from Samson, if you want the streamlined approach of USB? Or if you're using an X7, for about the same cost you can just use a Creative BT-W2 and the X7's built-in mic. If you want better, it costs more in cash and sometimes setup complexity.


----------



## m3t4lm4n222

I don't know how relevant this is, but it looks like Best Buy has lowered the pricing of the 558 by another $10 online, making them $69.99. 
  
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones-titan/1700513.p
  
 These + the aftermarket sennheiser cable with boom-mic built in would run about $92 or so after all is said and done. 
  
 Don't know how it'd compare to something like the SHP9500 and a boom mic.
  
 Additionally, HyperX Cloud Pro's, which could be used on your PC, XBO and PS4 is on sale on Amazon for $63.00
  
 https://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Gaming-Headset-Line/dp/B01MTLMV89/
  
 Both really tempting deals. I think the non-removable cable kind of kills the HyperX option for me however.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

napalmhardcore said:


> Just curious what your pick would be at the same price as the Snowball.


 
 Cad U37 or Neewer NW-700, most likely. The Neewer isn't USB but it comes with an XLR -> 3.5mm that a buddy of mine says works pretty well.
  
 Look, I like Blue mics, I have a Blue Spark sitting to the left of me, but their USB line (Snowball, Yeti, Nessie) leave a LOT to be desired. Frankly, if you HAVE to go USB, my suggestion remains the AT-2020+, best bang for the buck USB mic out there. And heck, if you go with the other cliche headphone pick of the M50x you can basically make yourself a full Audio-Technica setup.
  
 Blue's cheap USB mics are just plain dodgy. The number of people I've had to help try and get the settings right because they couldn't find a balance between "keeps blowing out" and "is barely audible" is amazing.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

axelcloris said:


> I dunno about you guys, but I game with a Shure KSM27 and KSM8. Also a Sennheiser AVX MKE2. And the Blue Snowball, Blueberry and Kiwi. And a cheap-as-chips generic dynamic from some company I cannot remember.


 
 OMG you have a Kiwi. The jealousy is real...


----------



## AxelCloris

someguydude said:


> OMG you have a Kiwi. The jealousy is real...


 
  
 I don't personally, but we have one at the office courtesy of Blue. It's an incredible mic. Sadly, as much as I love their sound, condensers aren't as suited to gaming as the dynamics I've used because of their weaker noise rejection. Without processing, the Kiwi picks up every single brush of a key or click of the mouse no matter which pickup pattern I choose. Great in the studio, not as much for Overwatch. 
  
 I'm still wanting to get my hands on an Electro-Voice RE320 or RE20 to see how they fare for gaming. I'd imagine damned well since they're a broadcasting standard.


----------



## expontherise

m3t4lm4n222 said:


> I don't know how relevant this is, but it looks like Best Buy has lowered the pricing of the 558 by another $10 online, making them $69.99.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sennheiser-audiophile-over-the-ear-headphones-titan/1700513.p
> 
> ...


 

 The 3rd party boom mic, is it the ~$20 one from amazon? I just ordered it last Thursday its due to come tomorrow.. I can let you guys know if its decent (it has very mixed reviews). I have a Vmoda boom pro mic to pit it against.
  
 edit: wanted boom for both my headphones so if a friend is over we can both play online with chat 

 This https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IRCXC9S/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_2_w


----------



## SomeGuyDude

axelcloris said:


> I don't personally, but we have one at the office courtesy of Blue. It's an incredible mic. Sadly, as much as I love their sound, condensers aren't as suited to gaming as the dynamics I've used because of their weaker noise rejection. Without processing, the Kiwi picks up every single brush of a key or click of the mouse no matter which pickup pattern I choose. Great in the studio, not as much for Overwatch.
> 
> I'm still wanting to get my hands on an Electro-Voice RE320 or RE20 to see how they fare for gaming. I'd imagine damned well since they're a broadcasting standard.


 
  
 Oh yeah, for sure. My Spark picks up every little clickety-clack of the mech keyboard. It's not USUALLY an issue in Overwatch for me because it's not like I'm rapid-fire typing, but if it becomes a problem I just swap to PTT. I do Twitch/YouTube so the clarity of a condenser is optimal, at least for me. 
  
 The RE20 is good, but IMO the SM7B (which is THE broadcasting mic) does a better job for less money. But you will need a pre-amp of some kind. The Cloudlifter is kinda the go-to for it.


----------



## AxelCloris

someguydude said:


> Oh yeah, for sure. My Spark picks up every little clickety-clack of the mech keyboard. It's not USUALLY an issue in Overwatch for me because it's not like I'm rapid-fire typing, but if it becomes a problem I just swap to PTT. I do Twitch/YouTube so the clarity of a condenser is optimal, at least for me.
> 
> The RE20 is good, but IMO the SM7B (which is THE broadcasting mic) does a better job for less money. But you will need a pre-amp of some kind. The Cloudlifter is kinda the go-to for it.


 
  
 The SM7B is certainly a classic microphone, and I do enjoy its sound signature for vocals, but with Shure mics I'd probably reach for their KSM8 with its dual diaphragm instead. Being able to have use a dynamic without worrying about the proximity effect is just one less thing to think about for a streamer. And IMO it's more attractive than the SM7B, which will probably appeal to some streamers as well.
  
 For $400 I'd most likely grab the RE320 over the SM7B and put the remaining $100 towards something else. Easier to drive, a tad more linear tonality, less proximity effect and cheaper. At $500, between the RE20 and KSM8, now that's a tough call.
  
 Of course, your average gamer doesn't have the other gear necessary for these mics, so something like a Snowball or the humble BoomPro would be plenty for most.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

axelcloris said:


> The SM7B is certainly a classic microphone, and I do enjoy its sound signature for vocals, but with Shure mics I'd probably reach for their KSM8 with its dual diaphragm instead. Being able to have use a dynamic without worrying about the proximity effect is just one less thing to think about for a streamer. And IMO it's more attractive than the SM7B, which will probably appeal to some streamers as well.
> 
> For $400 I'd most likely grab the RE320 over the SM7B and put the remaining $100 towards something else. Easier to drive, a tad more linear tonality, less proximity effect and cheaper. At $500, between the RE20 and KSM8, now that's a tough call.
> 
> Of course, your average gamer doesn't have the other gear necessary for these mics, so something like a Snowball or the humble BoomPro would be plenty for most.


 
 For sure, just regular ol' gaming? A boompro or lapel mic is plenty.


----------



## AxelCloris

For non regular ol' gaming...
  


Spoiler: Bit OT




 Desk setup. Fed by a Sennheiser GSX 1200.
  
 Apartment gaming setup (PC) currently utilizes a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Chord Mojo and a cheap LyxPro HHMX-10 mic.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

someguydude said:


> Cad U37 or Neewer NW-700, most likely. The Neewer isn't USB but it comes with an XLR -> 3.5mm that a buddy of mine says works pretty well.
> 
> Look, I like Blue mics, I have a Blue Spark sitting to the left of me, but their USB line (Snowball, Yeti, Nessie) leave a LOT to be desired. Frankly, if you HAVE to go USB, my suggestion remains the AT-2020+, best bang for the buck USB mic out there. And heck, if you go with the other cliche headphone pick of the M50x you can basically make yourself a full Audio-Technica setup.
> 
> Blue's cheap USB mics are just plain dodgy. The number of people I've had to help try and get the settings right because they couldn't find a balance between "keeps blowing out" and "is barely audible" is amazing.


 

 I was asking mostly because I didn't think that there was much competition for the Snowball, or at least nothing with the consistently good reviews it gets. I don't own one and nor do I intend to buy one (as AxelCloris says, I'd personally go for a dynamic mic due to the better ambient sound/noise rejection) but bear in mind that before Blue came along with the Snowball and Yeti, the vast majority of USB mics were awful by comparison.
  
 They built their reputation because at the time, there weren't really any other high quality plug and play USB mics. If you wanted something better than the old Logitech desktop mics, you had to have an interface and use an XLR mic. People still think of Blue as a safe bet because so many people have used/recommended them in the past. There likely are better choices available nowadays, but I understand why people still go for Snowballs and Yetis. I'd also say that calling the Snowball "garbage" is a bit strong, but you're entitled to your opinion.
  
 I am peronally interested in mics myself as I'm a musician and singer. However, for gaming voice communication, even a Snowball is OTT. Some gamer circles, you can see people using (what look like) AKG condenser mics and the audio in their own video sounds good. When you listen to their voice chat audio on someone else in their circle's video, it sounds awful. The quality will get murdered and it will be a waste of money if it is purely for game chat. With the amount of complaints I read about Youtube's audio quality, I'm not sure buying an expensive mic to record Youtube content would be the wisest investment either.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

napalmhardcore said:


> I was asking mostly because I didn't think that there was much competition for the Snowball, or at least nothing with the consistently good reviews it gets. I don't own one and nor do I intend to buy one (as AxelCloris says, I'd personally go for a dynamic mic due to the better ambient sound/noise rejection) but bear in mind that before Blue came along with the Snowball and Yeti, the vast majority of USB mics were awful by comparison.
> 
> They built their reputation because at the time, there weren't really any other high quality plug and play USB mics. If you wanted something better than the old Logitech desktop mics, you had to have an interface and use an XLR mic. People still think of Blue as a safe bet because so many people have used/recommended them in the past. There likely are better choices available nowadays, but I understand why people still go for Snowballs and Yetis. I'd also say that calling the Snowball "trash" is a bit strong, but you're entitled to your opinion.
> 
> I am peronally interested in mics myself as I'm a musician and singer. However, for gaming voice communication, even a Snowball is OTT. Some gamer circles, you can see people using (what look like) AKG condenser mics and the audio in their own video sounds good. When you listen to their voice chat audio on someone else in their circle's video, it sounds awful. The quality will get murdered and it will be a waste of money if it is purely for game chat. With the amount of complaints I read about Youtube's audio quality, I'm not sure buying an expensive mic to record Youtube content would be the wisest investment either.


 
  
 I can do this as a quick series.
  
 1) Blue got their rep because they're a brand you can get at Best Buy. You can find Yetis and Snowballs at any big box store, they're the Bose of microphones (sort of, again I love my Spark), but I honestly do not ever recommend the USB line to anyone. Even the Spark is one that I picked because it matches my voice particularly well.
  
 2) Dynamic vs condenser comes mostly down to application. If you have a noisy ass room and a super loud keyboard then okay you will need a dynamic. Unless you've got constant traffic through the room, dogs barking, and you're typing on cherry blues, I honestly think a condenser does a-ok.
  
 3) YT's audio compression isn't any worse than its video. Yes, it's not going to sound as good as a pure file made locally, but believe me the audio difference is readily noticeable. I've used Blue, AKG, Audio Technica, Neat, Shure, Sennheiser, Neumann, and Rode mics and it _will _ make a difference, even with YT's compression.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

someguydude said:


> I can do this as a quick series.
> 
> 1) Blue got their rep because they're a brand you can get at Best Buy. You can find Yetis and Snowballs at any big box store, they're the Bose of microphones (sort of, again I love my Spark), but I honestly do not ever recommend the USB line to anyone. Even the Spark is one that I picked because it matches my voice particularly well.
> 
> ...


 

 Retail isn't in a good way where I live and admittedly I don't do a great deal of retail shopping nowadays, but I've never seen one available at retail where I live. I became aware of them because it's the first thing (and has been for a long time) that pops up when you enter desktop or USB mic into Amazon's search. Also, as I said, with the amount of reviews for it or video reviews/recommendations for them in comparison to any other USB mic, the internet has certainly been a part of the reason for their success.
  
 I said that I'd personally opt for a dynamic mic as my environment isn't particularly quiet. You are absolutely right, a mic's application is context sensitive.
  
 I don't think the majority of the Youtube audience would appreciate the difference between a recording from an entry level/mid-tier mic and a high end Neumann when listened to in isolation. Yes, they'd hear the difference in an A-B comparison, but I don't think a lot of people would say "Wow, your audo sounds amazing! What mic are you using?" when listening to a video that makes no mention doesn't prompt the question of what audio equipment you're using. Maybe they wouldn't even notice with an uncompressed audio file, but I certainly think it is more likely they would than if listening over Youtube.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'll disagree slightly that a Snowball is OTT for gaming communication. For example, a while back I used to play Destiny on PS4 fairly regularly with Stillhart, and others like Evshrug and Hansotek can attest to just how crappy the mic was that he was using at the time. Absolute garbage. When he picked up a Snowball on the cheap and started using it, we could finally understand what he was saying clearly. Having clear communication helped improve our gameplay as a group.
  
 The two key components are the capturing method and the delivery. You can have an incredible mic and a crap delivery system like TeamSpeak and get poor results. You can have an amazing communication portal and a crap mic and get poor results as well. If you have a good communication method and an adequate mic, you'll sound better than many who are also gaming with you. Going back to Destiny again, team communication was much clearer when using a PS4 group rather than the communication options that are built-in. A good mic in game was meh, a crappy mic in party was meh, but a good mic in party chat was awesome.
  
 A system is only as good as its weakest component. Don't let that weak link be your choice in mic.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> I'll disagree slightly that a Snowball is OTT for gaming communication. For example, a while back I used to play Destiny on PS4 fairly regularly with Stillhart, and others like Evshrug and Hansotek can attest to just how crappy the mic was that he was using at the time. Absolute garbage. When he picked up a Snowball on the cheap and started using it, we could finally understand what he was saying clearly. Having clear communication helped improve our gameplay as a group.
> 
> The two key components are the capturing method and the delivery. You can have an incredible mic and a crap delivery system like TeamSpeak and get poor results. You can have an amazing communication portal and a crap mic and get poor results as well. If you have a good communication method and an adequate mic, you'll sound better than many who are also gaming with you. Going back to Destiny again, team communication was much clearer when using a PS4 group rather than the communication options that are built-in. A good mic in game was meh, a crappy mic in party was meh, but a good mic in party chat was awesome.
> 
> A system is only as good as its weakest component. Don't let that weak link be your choice in mic.


 
 What mic was he using previously?


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> What mic was he using previously?


 
  
 I believe it was his headset's built-in mic. I don't know which one he was using at the time. Either that or it was a clip-on.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> I believe it was his headset's built-in mic. I don't know which one he was using at the time. Either that or it was a clip-on.


 

 In which case, I retract my comment. Maybe there is value in having a better mic for voice chat, however I would still imagine that a reasonable quality headset mic or something similar to a Modmic would be sufficient.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

napalmhardcore said:


> I don't think the majority of the Youtube audience would appreciate the difference between a recording from an entry level/mid-tier mic and a high end Neumann when listened to in isolation.


 
  
 Audio in a video is critical, IMO, because frequently YT videos are played in the background and the audio is the only thing they're getting. A Neumann is undoubtedly overkill, but the difference between a headset mic and a decent condenser is HUGE. People might not consciously think about it, but they will absolutely enjoy clear audio more than muffled and blown out audio. 
  
 I mean, by that same merit, the majority of YouTube might never notice if you're uploading 1080p60, they might not notice if you've got a bad recording codec that has a lot of artifacts, or if your camera has poor lighting, if your game footage is jittery, etc etc etc, but you know what? They do notice. If you flip between two videos, one where the guy has sharp, smooth video and a clear voice, and the other looks like it's being done with a cheap webcam and a headset mic, you're already a few steps behind if you're the latter guy. 
  
 YouTube/Twitch have developed a lot, to make a dent at all you really can't have the technicalities being weak. You only have a few seconds to grab someone's attention, and they're gonna be outta there if the video doesn't look and sound sharp. They'll hang around to check you out if it seems professional, but if it seems cheap they'll be gone. It's a shame, but true. I mean, again, I use a Spark, those cost like $130 now, the $700 TLM102 is totally unnecessary, but the Snowball and Yeti just aren't up to snuff.
  
 BTW, I'm aware the Yeti and Spark cost about the same, but the quality difference is stark. The Yeti is more interested in having the switchable patterns, plus it has to have the internals of analog-to-USB conversion (an ADC, if you will). A nice XLR into an interface will have a significantly sleaner signal.


----------



## ElectronicTonic

All this talk about mics.....just ordered a modmic 5, to pair with an HD 700. I ordered both today, so looking forward to trying them out. I also record music and have quite a few mics, including a Shure SM7b. I might do a comparison recording, just for fun.....if anyone is interested.


----------



## AxelCloris

someguydude said:


> Audio in a video is critical, IMO, because frequently YT videos are played in the background and the audio is the only thing they're getting.


 
  
 Agree 100%, and not just because they're often played in the background. In today's world of video compression for mobile viewers, it's not uncommon for many of us to be accepting of the occasional lower quality video. That's normal. However for me, and I imagine for many of you as well, I will not suffer a video that has terrible audio quality, no matter how incredible the video quality.
  
 The same is often true for video games. In today's market we want games with incredible sound design. We want immersive details and soundtracks so spectacular that we stop just to listen to the music. Graphics don't have to be the sharpest if the audio helps balance it. Look at Overwatch. Solid sound design with a cartoony aesthetic. It's not taxing on a machine and yet it's just as much fun as something like Crysis and Far Cry, games that have far more emphasis placed on visuals.
  
 Disclosure: I'm biased. I went to school for and earned my degree in audio, after all. 
  


electronictonic said:


> All this talk about mics.....just ordered a modmic 5, to pair with an HD 700. I ordered both today, so looking forward to trying them out. I also record music and have quite a few mics, including a Shure SM7b. I might do a comparison recording, just for fun.....if anyone is interested.


  

 I'm always interested in mic comparisons.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

axelcloris said:


> The same is often true for video games. In today's market we want games with incredible sound design. We want immersive details and soundtracks so spectacular that we stop just to listen to the music. Graphics don't have to be the sharpest if the audio helps balance it. Look at Overwatch. Solid sound design with a cartoony aesthetic. It's not taxing on a machine and yet it's just as much fun as something like Crysis and Far Cry, games that have far more emphasis placed on visuals.


 
 Absolutely! One reason I was super impressed with Overwatch is that it has a special headphone mode rather than speakers. I definitely agree 100% that good audio will always cover for mediocre graphics better than the reverse. You give me spot on sound and a 720p30 game, that'll be a better experience than low-fi sound playing 4k60.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

someguydude said:


> Audio in a video is critical, IMO, because frequently YT videos are played in the background and the audio is the only thing they're getting. A Neumann is undoubtedly overkill, but the difference between a headset mic and a decent condenser is HUGE. People might not consciously think about it, but they will absolutely enjoy clear audio more than muffled and blown out audio.
> 
> I mean, by that same merit, the majority of YouTube might never notice if you're uploading 1080p60, they might not notice if you've got a bad recording codec that has a lot of artifacts, or if your camera has poor lighting, if your game footage is jittery, etc etc etc, but you know what? They do notice. If you flip between two videos, one where the guy has sharp, smooth video and a clear voice, and the other looks like it's being done with a cheap webcam and a headset mic, you're already a few steps behind if you're the latter guy.
> 
> ...


 

 Perhaps I'm giving the average Youtube viewer less credit than they deserve. On the other hand I've seen so many videos with titles along the lines of "$50 mic vs $5000 mic, which is better?" and see plenty of comments saying "Can't tell the difference" or "Call me crazy, but I prefer the $50 mic". The thing that gets me is this kind of comment often will have quite a few thumbs up.
  
 Very obviously poor audio is certainly enough to make me turn off a video, but more often than not it is misuse of the equipment rather than the equipment being used (too much gain being the number one offense closely followed by no attempt whatsoever to avoid plosive popping, too much EQ and/or too much compression). I remember watching this one video and a guy was demonstrating a channel strip and started talking about how it could be used to "improve your sound". He then proceeded boost the bass massively, whack the de-esser to 11 and compress it so I could hear the hamster on a wheel that was powering his brain. He then said "Listen. Here's without..." and it sounded acceptable, then he switched it on and said "...and here's with". It sounded a complete mess! It was like a caricature of a radio DJ that had a heavy cold and/or was deaf.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

napalmhardcore said:


> Perhaps I'm giving the average Youtube viewer less credit than they deserve. On the other hand I've seen so many videos with titles along the lines of "$50 mic vs $5000 mic, which is better?" and see plenty of comments saying "Can't tell the difference" or "Call me crazy, but I prefer the $50 mic". The thing that gets me is this kind of comment often will have quite a few thumbs up.
> 
> Very obviously poor audio is certainly enough to make me turn off a video, but more often than not it is misuse of the equipment rather than the equipment being used (too much gain being the number one offense closely followed by no attempt whatsoever to avoid plosive popping, too much EQ and/or too much compression). I remember watching this one video and a guy was demonstrating a channel strip and started talking about how it could be used to "improve your sound". He then proceeded boost the bass massively, whack the de-esser to 11 and compress it so I could hear the hamster on a wheel that was powering his brain. He then said "Listen. Here's without..." and it sounded acceptable, then he switched it on and said "...and here's with". It sounded a complete mess! It was like a caricature of a radio DJ that had a heavy cold and/or was deaf.


 
  
 It's a subconscious thing. Yes, obviously, if you're taking a guy who slaps ten thousand effects onto his mic audio to sound "better" then you're dealing with someone who doesn't know what the hell they're doing, but these are all things that viewers might not consciously go "wow that guy is using an expensive microphone" but someone flipping around from video to video is far, far more likely to stick around when the person sounds bell clear like they've got a professional setup going.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

someguydude said:


> It's a subconscious thing. Yes, obviously, if you're taking a guy who slaps ten thousand effects onto his mic audio to sound "better" then you're dealing with someone who doesn't know what the hell they're doing, but these are all things that viewers might not consciously go "wow that guy is using an expensive microphone" but someone flipping around from video to video is far, far more likely to stick around when the person sounds bell clear like they've got a professional setup going.


 

 Fair point.


----------



## Zorgon

Purchased 37x on Massdrop. I had the PC 360 5 or 6 years ago and really enjoyed it. I will also look forward to testing it against the HD 598.


----------



## expontherise

For YT, forget SQ.. If there is no sound dampening on the walls im nexting!! (joke)


----------



## SomeGuyDude

expontherise said:


> For YT, forget SQ.. If there is no sound dampening on the walls im nexting!! (joke)


 
 LMAO jeez the number of people I see with their entire room covered in acoustic foam... like... _professional recording studios_ don't even do that.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, I just posted a YouTube video, but I know it has bad audio in parts and I used a Snowball as an improvement over my phone's mic, sooooooo too intimidated to share it with this audio engineer crowd! Already have someone who subscribed just so he/she can know when a video goes up, and downvote it in less time than it would take to watch the video.

All that dedication though, I guess that's one kind of fan.



napalmhardcore said:


> What mic was he using previously?



Uh, pbhhhhht, I think he had a BoomPro that developed a short (wonder how THAT happened), and then a few cheap lapel mics before the Snowball?

I mean, once upon a time, I had a decent pair of headphones on my ears, and a splitter so I could use a gamer headset around my neck just so I could point the mic up and use that. We've all been there at some point, just kludging together whatever temporary fix works, right?


----------



## nicobombai

Guys, need opinions on this, i got Q701 right now and i like it very much. Recently i saw a good deal for R70X here, to maybe replace the old Q701, haven't got the time to go for A/B test tho.. Soo yay or nay?


----------



## Evshrug

nicobombai said:


> Guys, need opinions on this, i got Q701 right now and i like it very much. Recently i saw a good deal for R70X here, to maybe replace the old Q701, haven't got the time to go for A/B test tho.. Soo yay or nay?



conquerator2 said the R70x had a somewhat narrow soundstage. I don't know if he's ever heard the Q701, but maybe he can come in here and say a few R70x things?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

nicobombai said:


> Guys, need opinions on this, i got Q701 right now and i like it very much. Recently i saw a good deal for R70X here, to maybe replace the old Q701, haven't got the time to go for A/B test tho.. Soo yay or nay?


 
 I'd stick with the Q701 tbh.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

evshrug said:


> I mean, once upon a time, I had a decent pair of headphones on my ears, and a splitter so I could use a gamer headset around my neck just so I could point the mic up and use that. We've all been there at some point, just kludging together whatever temporary fix works, right?


 
 My friend has a similar setup, though it's a cheap headset from a brand I've never heard of that he's listening on and I think it's the one earpiece headset that came with the PS4 he's using for the mic. He really doesn't care very much about audio gear (which is fine, a few years ago I didn't care very much either).
  
 My inventory has seen some changes recently.
  
 I'm still waiting to get my Little Dot back as I had a couple of problems with it and when I posted it back, due to the weight it had to travel by boat. I've given my K240 MKiis to my mother for laptop use as the weird positioning of sounds due to where the drivers sit in relation to my ears was getting to me. Since I've identified the problem, it's all I notice now when I wear them, so despite liking the sound I've decided to move on.
  
 I picked up a pair of Sennheiser CX 2.00G earphones from work as I couldn't find much info on them, I gave my Panasonic earphones to my brother (I really need to stop giving all my stuff away!) and they've been staring me in the face for weeks (the earphone display is right in front of the till at my work).
  
 I've also just ordered the RHA T20i blacks. By far my most expensive in ear, so that should be interesting. The really bad thing is I'm already toying with ideas for my next headphones (probably a closed back circumaural) and the ones I've just ordered haven't even dispatched yet. This isn't a hobby, it's a sickness!


----------



## nicobombai

evshrug said:


> @conquerator2 said the R70x had a somewhat narrow soundstage. I don't know if he's ever heard the Q701, but maybe he can come in here and say a few R70x things?


 
  
 Ah icic, will wait for him too 
  


someguydude said:


> I'd stick with the Q701 tbh.


 
  
 Whats it like if compared together? i just need some inputs first before i allocate time for some AB test next month..


----------



## MrP627

May I ask if anyone here if they have a top pick or picks for best bluetooth gaming headphones that can also be be ideal for movies and a wide genre of music?

If any of you have tested virtual surround capabilities on them, that would also be most appreciated. TIA!


----------



## expontherise

mrp627 said:


> May I ask if anyone here if they have a top pick or picks for best bluetooth gaming headphones that can also be be ideal for movies and a wide genre of music?
> 
> If any of you have tested virtual surround capabilities on them, that would also be most appreciated. TIA!


 
  
 console or pc?.. important question
  
 if console: which console is important (there are proprietary Bluetooth/wireless restrictions on some)


----------



## MrP627

expontherise said:


> console or pc?.. important question
> 
> if console: which console is important (there are proprietary Bluetooth/wireless restrictions on some)


 
 Thanks for the reply! Really? Man that is a pity, I did not know there were bluetooth restrictions for headphones on the consoles. I mainly play PC though but I was planning on getting the PS4 Pro.


----------



## Yethal

mrp627 said:


> Thanks for the reply! Really? Man that is a pity, I did not know there were bluetooth restrictions for headphones on the consoles. I mainly play PC though but I was planning on getting the PS4 Pro.



You can use Creative BT-W2 to be able to use any bluetooth headphones on PS4.


----------



## ozzy1925

I bought dss 2,syba adapter and zalman mic to connect my headphones to ps4 after i connect syba i get lower sound.Do you know why?I also wonder the dss2 knob is endless i mean it doesnt stop when you turn left or right is that normal?


----------



## shuto77

ozzy1925 said:


> I bought dss 2,syba adapter and zalman mic to connect my headphones to ps4 after i connect syba i get lower sound.Do you know why?I also wonder the dss2 knob is endless i mean it doesnt stop when you turn left or right is that normal?


 
  
 Yes, my DSS2 did the same thing - the knob doesn't stop at the end, it just continued to rotate. I believe this is normal. Also, the DSS2 not particularly powerful, so you may have to double-amp it with a decent portable amp.
  
 What headphones are you using?


----------



## ozzy1925

shuto77 said:


> Yes, my DSS2 did the same thing - the knob doesn't stop at the end, it just continued to rotate. I believe this is normal. Also, the DSS2 not particularly powerful, so you may have to double-amp it with a decent portable amp.
> 
> What headphones are you using?



I am currently using asus orion headphones for ps3 but i am planning to order hd598se.I will use the hd 588 either for ps4 and listening to music.What do you think?Do you have the same sound issue with the usb adapter like syba?I also have fiie10k but i wonder is there a way that i can connect dss2 to fiie10k?


----------



## ElectronicTonic

I already posted this in the HD700 thread, but this might be a better place.

Does anyone happen to have a Modmic 5/4 combo with the HD700? If so, have you had any issues with the magnet so close to the drivers? Looks like there's only one place to stick the magnet piece, the only flat piece on the ear cup. I probably should have asked these questions before I purchased one....oh well. I can always test these things myself, but I figured I see if anyone has any info on these questions first.

Thanks


----------



## Change is Good

Well, I finally bought Overwatch .


----------



## Yethal

change is good said:


> Well, I finally bought Overwatch .


 

 You're gonna love that game.


----------



## Change is Good

yethal said:


> You're gonna love that game.




Yeah I liked the beta way back when, just wasn't going to pay full price for it. Had a blast the couple games I joined. Did well but lost (no one to play with). It's funny because playing and enjoying Paladins is made me want to go ahead and buy Overwatch haha.

Been addicted to Disc Jam, though.


----------



## mbyrnes

Haven't played Overwatch in months. Should break that out again, just for the sound quality. Thanks for the reminder!


----------



## AxelCloris

Haven't played Overwatch in days. I'm itching.


----------



## Evshrug

electronictonic said:


> I already posted this in the HD700 thread, but this might be a better place.
> 
> Does anyone happen to have a Modmic 5/4 combo with the HD700? If so, have you had any issues with the magnet so close to the drivers? Looks like there's only one place to stick the magnet piece, the only flat piece on the ear cup. I probably should have asked these questions before I purchased one....oh well. I can always test these things myself, but I figured I see if anyone has any info on these questions first.
> 
> Thanks



I've seen people with the Modmic attached to HD800, should be just as fine on the HD700.





mbyrnes said:


> Haven't played Overwatch in months. Should break that out again, just for the sound quality. Thanks for the reminder!







axelcloris said:


> Haven't played Overwatch in days. I'm itching.



Stream it!
Just check your Twitch chat posts from time to time 

I totally get the feeling though, the last two weeks I was recording and editing every night, or spending time with the wife, and only gamed ONCE when I went to a friend's house to hang out. My PS4 is still sad, in a bag! Hopefully I can stream again Sunday night, gotta finish Phantom Pain before my buddy moves to Texas :'(


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Hello everyone. What microphones would you suggest for online gaming, if I use Cherry MX Blues and don't want a mike to pick up my keyboard? V-Moda BoomPro and ModMic? Any other cheaper *or* higher quality choices? Thank you.


----------



## TeeReQs

change is good said:


> Yeah I liked the beta way back when, just wasn't going to pay full price for it. Had a blast the couple games I joined. Did well but lost (no one to play with). It's funny because playing and enjoying Paladins is made me want to go ahead and buy Overwatch haha.
> 
> Been addicted to Disc Jam, though.


 
  


axelcloris said:


> Haven't played Overwatch in days. I'm itching.


 
  
  


mbyrnes said:


> Haven't played Overwatch in months. Should break that out again, just for the sound quality. Thanks for the reminder!


 
  
  
 Same here! I played probably every day for 3 weeks straight after it came out, but haven't touched it since. Shame, because it was a lot of fun.


----------



## Evshrug

audi03nthusiast said:


> Hello everyone. What microphones would you suggest for online gaming, if I use Cherry MX Blues and don't want a mike to pick up my keyboard? V-Moda BoomPro and ModMic? Any other cheaper *or* higher quality choices? Thank you.



Wish I could tell you! I have a friend whose keyboard is hilariously loud over the mic. He types so energetically!

I think the ideal would be something with very short range, super cartioid. Condenser vs Dynamic, I have no clue as of yet, but I hope to learn soon.

You know what? Your question is valuable. If you searched Head-Fi for any existing gaming mic threads and didn't find one, just make a thread. And if someone makes good suggestions and explains why it's a good choice, quote it and copy the quote into your first post. A lot of people have the same question, I'm sure!


----------



## cskippy

My vote is for a ModMic.  Either the noise canceling one or the ModMic 5 as it has dual capsules, noise canceling and high quality.  You need something with a high rejection pattern and close proximity activation only.  Shotgun mic is another choice but more cumbersome.


----------



## Turpow

Always been a fan of getting the best sounding mic I could find, even if it picks up everything, then just using push to talk. Obviously not an option for consoles I guess but I swear by ptt on pc (especially with it bound to footpedal). Think I'm the only 1 though as all my friends are happy with me hearing their fuzz!
  
 1 of the modmic versions does do a decent job of blocking out background noise if that's the route you want to take though.


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> Hello everyone. What microphones would you suggest for online gaming, if I use Cherry MX Blues and don't want a mike to pick up my keyboard? V-Moda BoomPro and ModMic? Any other cheaper *or* higher quality choices? Thank you.



My keyboard uses cherry mx blues. Anything without noise-cancelling You can cross straight out. Both the beyerdynamic mic and pc37x mic pick it up. Either add orings to the switches or buy a separate gaming keyboard.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

yethal said:


> My keyboard uses cherry mx blues. Anything without noise-cancelling You can cross straight out. Both the beyerdynamic mic and pc37x mic pick it up. Either add orings to the switches or buy a separate gaming keyboard.


 
 What are the best noise-cancelling choices?


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> What are the best noise-cancelling choices?



ModMic 5 in unidirectional mode should be fine. I'll record a keyboard noise sample once I get home.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

yethal said:


> ModMic 5 in unidirectional mode should be fine. I'll record a keyboard noise sample once I get home.


 
 How about ModMic 4 in my case? Isn't ModMic overpriced? Are there other cheaper alternatives? Thank you.


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> How about ModMic 4 in my case? Isn't ModMic overpriced? Are there other cheaper alternatives? Thank you.



As long as it's tje unidirectional and not the omnidirectional version.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

yethal said:


> As long as it's tje unidirectional and not the omnidirectional version.


 
 Do you know about some other recommended unidirectional mikes? Thank you.


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> Do you know about some other recommended unidirectional mikes? Thank you.



Not really, You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me. But I highly recommend using orings or keyboard dampers to eliminate the keycap clacking.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

yethal said:


> Not really, You'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me. But I highly recommend using orings or keyboard dampers to eliminate the keycap clacking.


 
 The thing is that I like that clacking


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> The thing is that I like that clacking



I partially eliminated the problem by installing typewriter keycaps. 0% clack 100% swag.


----------



## AxelCloris

I have the Logitech G910 at home and even though the Romer switches are pretty quiet overall, a condenser mic will still pick up the sounds of typing. Dynamic microphones don't tend to register the clicking.


----------



## Yethal

audi03nthusiast said:


> How about ModMic 4 in my case? Isn't ModMic overpriced? Are there other cheaper alternatives? Thank you.


 

 Here's the noise sample:
 Recorded on the Sound Blaster X7 using PC37X microphone
 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f4umvxxdhny6y75/AAC6_DiNo40FhnysyduxLMZCa?dl=0
  
 Please disregard my Polish accent.


----------



## expontherise

yethal said:


> I partially eliminated the problem by installing typewriter keycaps. 0% clack 100% swag.


 
 Those keycaps are actually sweet imo... Do they let your led's shine through or no?


----------



## Yethal

expontherise said:


> Those keycaps are actually sweet imo... Do they let your led's shine through or no?


 

 My keyboard doesn't have leds.


----------



## expontherise

yethal said:


> My keyboard doesn't have leds.


 

 oh in that case, if I were to get those, would mine?    ..though im not sure if they would look as clean with colors coming though, heh
  
 Edit: ah forget that haha.. my pc is currently out of commission anyhow (outdated- AMD Phenom 9600, ATI HD3870, & 6gb ddr2), I just use my kb (corsair k70 lux rgb - brown switched) for quick text on xbox lol.. such a waste of hardware until I get a new pc.  (im impulsive and it was sexy)


----------



## Yethal

expontherise said:


> oh in that case, if I were to get those, would mine?    ..though im not sure if they would look as clean with colors coming though, heh



There is one led under the F9 key that serves as an indication whether Win key lock is engaged. Looks like this:


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Does anyone have an experience with *HiFiMAN** HE-400i *in FPS gaming with headphone surround sound?


----------



## AxelCloris

audi03nthusiast said:


> Does anyone have an experience with *HiFiMAN** HE-400i *in FPS gaming with headphone surround sound?


 
  
 That particular headphone has been discussed several times throughout the thread, so you should be able to find plenty of impressions of those who have used it for gaming.


----------



## Fegefeuer

hi, can we have some Fidelio X2 gaming impressions (seundsteech, imagong, competitive multiplayer good?) prettiest of all pleases?


----------



## shuto77

fegefeuer said:


> hi, can we have some Fidelio X2 gaming impressions (seundsteech, imagong, competitive multiplayer good?) prettiest of all pleases?


 
  
 What's a Fidelio X2? That sounds dirty, and I'd rather not have that sort of talk here.


----------



## AxelCloris

fegefeuer said:


> hi, can we have some Fidelio X2 gaming impressions (seundsteech, imagong, competitive multiplayer good?) prettiest of all pleases?


 
  
 First post.


----------



## audi03nthusiast

Hello everyone.
  
 What amplifier would you suggest for my 1th gen K701 and T70p? I know that K701 is power hungry due to low sensitivity.
  
 My DACs are Creative X-Fi Titanium HD and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD.
  
 Thank you.


----------



## PurpleAngel

audi03nthusiast said:


> What amplifier would you suggest for my 1th gen K701 and T70p? I know that K701 is power hungry due to low sensitivity.
> My DACs are Creative X-Fi Titanium HD and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD.


 
  
 If your willing to budget $214-$250 for a headphone amplifier.
 Darkvoice 336SE.
 https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
  
 So RCA cable from the Titanium-HD's RCA line-output to the RCA input on the 336SE.


----------



## mbyrnes

purpleangel said:


> If your willing to budget $214-$250 for a headphone amplifier.
> Darkvoice 336SE.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dark-voice-366se
> 
> So RCA cable from the Titanium-HD's RCA line-output to the RCA input on the 336SE.


 
  
 Does this play well with lower impedance cans? Most OTL tube amps do not, so I don't trust the 32-600 ohm rating. Usually below 150 ohm, it becomes a problem, and the K series is 62 ohm I believe. I could be wrong on this particular unit though, as Schiit worked some magic with their Valhalla 2 to drive lower impedance headphones.


----------



## Evshrug

mbyrnes said:


> Does this play well with lower impedance cans? Most OTL tube amps do not, so I don't trust the 32-600 ohm rating. Usually below 150 ohm, it becomes a problem, and the K series is 62 ohm I believe. I could be wrong on this particular unit though, as Schiit worked some magic with their Valhalla 2 to drive lower impedance headphones.



High end AKGs _love_ tubes. Yes, 62 Ω, but also unusually lower sensitivity (forget off the top of my head, think it's in the 90's dB), and a nearly linear impedance response curve. Meaning, it responds to output impedance almost the same across the frequency range. Tubes add a bit of roundness and musicality to the otherwise technical headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

fegefeuer said:


> hi, can we have some Fidelio X2 gaming impressions (seundsteech, imagong, competitive multiplayer good?) prettiest of all pleases?



 I can't seem to find information on the ultrasound 15 G anywhere! Do you have any idea where I can find a review?


----------



## Change is Good

evshrug said:


> I can't seem to find information on the ultrasound 15 G anywhere! Do you have any idea where I can find a review?


----------



## Yethal

evshrug said:


> I can't seem to find information on the ultrasound 15 G anywhere! Do you have any idea where I can find a review?


 

 There was this thread with a guy who wrote a guide on gaming cans but I don't remember what it was called.


----------



## expontherise

yethal said:


> There was this thread with a guy who wrote a guide on gaming cans but I don't remember what it was called.


 

 I think it loads after you hold alt and press f4? 
  
  
 Edit: yay, has been about a decade since I had the chance to use that 1 lol


----------



## rudyae86

evshrug said:


> I can't seem to find information on the ultrasound 15 G anywhere! Do you have any idea where I can find a review?


 
  


change is good said:


>


 
  


yethal said:


> There was this thread with a guy who wrote a guide on gaming cans but I don't remember what it was called.


 
  


expontherise said:


> I think it loads after you hold alt and press f4?
> 
> 
> Edit: yay, has been about a decade since I had the chance to use that 1 lol


 
  
  
 LMAO
  
 For a minute there, I was confused as if I was in the correct thread or where the hell was I?


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> LMAO
> 
> For a minute there, I was confused as if I was in the correct thread or where the hell was I?


----------



## rudyae86

yethal said:


>




Great now I jave the theme song playing in my head.....ugh lol


----------



## mbyrnes

Antlion mod mic 4.0 is on Massdrop for $38.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

mbyrnes said:


> Antlion mod mic 4.0 is on Massdrop for $38.


 
 Sweet, you can save ten bucks and only have to wait an extra four months for shipping.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

Any change we will see a review of the monoprice monolith headphones?


----------



## Fegefeuer

cskippy has them iirc

He could give some impressions/comparisons now that he has them longer


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Hi guys, I have a question regarding How good it's The HIFIMAN HE400S with Focus Pad for gaming. I use the Philips Fidelio X2 for Action games/Fps where where you want a good Bass and I use the Sennheiser HD 598 Cs for more Story telling narrative games. Any Thoughts ?


----------



## rudyae86

https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/99862/windows-sonic-for-headphones-dolby-atmos-for-headphones-coming-soon
  
 Check this out peeps....!!!!!
  
 So it seems this is it! The beginning of a.....beginning? lol
  
 I am still confused as to why they added 2 HRTFs, Sonic and Dolby Atmos but from my undertanding Sonic let's those people with a gaming headset that uses their HRTFs now be used! Dolby Atmos, well you are using that HRTF specifically if it's built into it....at least that is what Overwatch does. I know BF1 and Battlefront have it but is only enabled if you have an AVR connected to your GPU via HDMI.
  
 There is some confusion going on right now in different forums, usually misleading info as well. Xbox One and PC gamers will get to try this so I wonder what PS4 has in store? We already saw Uncharted 4 having its own 3D audio but is only enabled with Sony's headset but I am sure they will enabled it for everyone else....
  
 Edit: It seems PC can get it now even if you are not an insider...
  
 I have work tomorrow early in the morning but YOLO, will figure out and download lol
  
 Edit 2: Downloaded but DA for Headphones is coming soon.......it's there but not available for headphones and only for Home Cinema set ups. On the other hand I can enable Sonic. Let me test and I will give some details later on.
  
  
*EDIT 3: *https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt807491(v=vs.85).aspx
  
 Talks about spatial audio in Windows 10.
  
*EDIT 4!:* I found a thread where someone actually enabled Dolby Atmos for headphones but says that it gave him a trial version of it. Just as I thought, Windows has to charge for it.....
  
 Link here for that info https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt807491(v=vs.85).aspx


----------



## Fegefeuer

Is there any date/hint when it might drop?
I expected this to cost money, no way Dolby wouldn't milk their new cow for years to come.


----------



## Rompe

Hi, just wanted to chime in. The Spatial Sound / Dolby Atmos Headphone - Windows 10 update is really big news for PC/Xbox gaming. Proper 3D audio for games has been buried for over a decade (Aureal 3D, DS3D, Creative EAX). Now Microsoft is finally bringing 3D audio back to their APIs and apparently also releasing surround/3D sound software solution for the masses. Past few days I have been researching the best possible virtual surround solution (software/DSP) for PC gaming. Most of the current solutions seem to be overpriced and/or not that great to begin with at least when compared to the idea of the old A3D. Lets just hope that Microsoft/Dolby can deliver efficient and stable software. Still, I'm probably not going to download the update (The Creators Update) right away. You can hold up updating as you could do with the Anniversary Update for a maximum of half year before the update is mandatory. The update is officially released on tuesday.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

Hey guys. Posted my first couple of reviews. One for the K240 Mkii and one for the Cloud 2. Just thought I'd post them here since this is the thread I frequent most.


----------



## expontherise

napalmhardcore said:


> Hey guys. Posted my first couple of reviews. One for the K240 Mkii and one for the Cloud 2. Just thought I'd post them here since this is the thread I frequent most.


 
  
 I did not go in to the cloud review yet, but the k240 one is very detailed and personal. I appreciate the personal touch and the explanation of the hard-to-do on lowering the rating over being your first 'better' set. Very well done!

 I personally have curbed making reviews because everything I have right now is still my first entry and I felt I would still place too much bias towards them as such. The way you wrote it kept me reading until the end though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well I guess that Windows Sonic will be a de facto standard developing 3D Audio API for game developing (like Xaudio 2 was) for the Xbox platform and Dolby Atmos will be similar but require special licensing and lead to further costs.
  
 The wonderful thing is that we don't need a standard, let the game developers choose their favorite 3D Audio option. Let them use SteamAudio (on PC), their own binaural tech (Resident Evil 7), Dolby Atmos for headphones (like Overwatch) etc etc...


----------



## Napalmhardcore

expontherise said:


> I did not go in to the cloud review yet, but the k240 one is very detailed and personal. I appreciate the personal touch and the explanation of the hard-to-do on lowering the rating over being your first 'better' set. Very well done!
> 
> I personally have curbed making reviews because everything I have right now is still my first entry and I felt I would still place too much bias towards them as such. The way you wrote it kept me reading until the end though.


 

 Thanks, I appreciate it


----------



## majnu

rudyae86 said:


> https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/99862/windows-sonic-for-headphones-dolby-atmos-for-headphones-coming-soon
> 
> Check this out peeps....!!!!!
> 
> ...


 
  
 Have you got a link for that thread please?
 I was pretty miffed after I downloaded the creators update for Atmos for headphones to be unavailable. I would love to try out Atmos in Battlegrounds.
 Thanks


----------



## SomeGuyDude

Be forewarned, y'all. The Spatial setting isn't available if you're using a USB out. Only the direct 3.5mm out.


----------



## rudyae86

someguydude said:


> Be forewarned, y'all. The Spatial setting isn't available if you're using a USB out. Only the direct 3.5mm out.




Hmm interesting. I have the option while I am using my Schiit Modi 2 Uber and Cayin C5 portable amp via optical from an Asus Xonar DG.

I still don't know how it works though and used it with BF1 and it doesn't seem to work...


----------



## cskippy

I can select it but audio stops playing,and won't restart until I turn it off or switch devices.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I could only make it work with Atmos movies and general 5.1/7.1 streams. Games only recognize a 2.0 device. Guess we need games that support WS. 

It flawlessly works with USB devices. I've assigned it to my USB/SPDIF converter.


----------



## RedHarlow

Can someone recommend me a closed headphone with a detachable 3.5 mm cable and a wide soundstage? I want to use the headphonewith my vmoda boom pro mic.


----------



## shuto77

redharlow said:


> Can someone recommend me a closed headphone with a detachable 3.5 mm cable and a wide soundstage? I want to use the headphonewith my vmoda boom pro mic.




NAD VISO HP50 fits the bill. Audio Technica ath MSR7 does as well, but it's pretty bright.


----------



## Rompe

I guess you need the upcoming "Dolby Atmos for headphones" app to get the virtual surround working, if the Windows spatial sound is not specifically implemented into the game. I'm sure Dolby will charge something for the app when it's released. The older Dolby Headphone isn't free either.


----------



## The Krell

Has anyone tried the Beyer DT1770 for gaming?


----------



## Phukka

Curious if anyone has tried the Fostex T50RP Mk3 with the Mayflower vers. 1 mod for gaming?
  
 I've used AKG K701 which I loved, but two pairs broke within a few months, otherwise I'd have stuck with those. Have HD598 now but want something different & better.
  
 Considering K702 or Q701, but put ATH-AD700X ahead those. However, heard about Fostex recently & seen a couple reviews on Youtube and some rave about them, even more so with the ver.1 mod. Any opinions?
  
 Cheers!


----------



## Sencha

Just popping in to say thanks. Had the HD650s which I was using for gaming and music but found them narrow and darkish (even after going through various amps and set-ups). Superb for music but opposite end of what I wanted for gaming. Bought the K712 after reading as much as I could of this thread and couldn't be more pleased. Prefer them for music and for gaming they are next level. Clean, brighter with a wide accurate sound stage. The memory foam on them is also alot nicer then the foam on the HD650s. They seal around the arms of my glasses far better and the headset disappears. Wish I'd made the jump sooner rather then looking at amp changing but got there in the end. Sold the 650s on the bay and they covered the cost of the new K712 so happy days for me  Thanks Mad Lust!


----------



## Rompe

phukka said:


> Curious if anyone has tried the Fostex T50RP Mk3 with the Mayflower vers. 1 mod for gaming?
> 
> I've used AKG K701 which I loved, but two pairs broke within a few months, otherwise I'd have stuck with those. Have HD598 now but want something different & better.
> 
> ...


 
 Haven't tried them, but I would think that since it's not fully open-back construction, the soundstage is not as wide as with the AKG K701/K702/K712/K7xx/Q701, ATH-AD700X or HD598. Otherwise seems like great headphones for gaming, if the earbads are replaced with something better (e.g. ver.1 mod).
  
 Since I have just ordered K702, I'm curious, how did your K701 break?


----------



## voltize

Has anyone tried the Beyerdynamic Amiron home for gaming?


----------



## expontherise

voltize said:


> Has anyone tried the Beyerdynamic Amiron home for gaming?


 

 I think this was actually discussed a few weeks back, I would double back some pages.


----------



## voltize

expontherise said:


> I think this was actually discussed a few weeks back, I would double back some pages.


 
 Okay, I used the search function and didn't find anything in this thread, but I'm gonna look manually through the thread later.


----------



## ToonMechaMan

redharlow said:


> Can someone recommend me a closed headphone with a detachable 3.5 mm cable and a wide soundstage? I want to use the headphonewith my vmoda boom pro mic.


 

 Phillips Fidelio X2. I use it daily with the Vmoda Boom Pro mic for work, music, and gaming and does it all very well.


----------



## TeeReQs

Isn't the X2 open back?


----------



## lichlord91

Great guide, rocking a Hifiman Edition S and AKG 712pro myself.


----------



## rudyae86

teereqs said:


> Isn't the X2 open back?


 Yep


----------



## bavinck

Anyone know if the Noble 2 pin iem cable with mic will work with a ps4 remote for chat?


----------



## Yethal

bavinck said:


> Anyone know if the Noble 2 pin iem cable with mic will work with a ps4 remote for chat?



If it works with a phone it will work with dualshock 4. Both use CTIA standard pinout


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys i have some problems here...
  
 First one, why can't i connect the Turtle Beach DSS to the PC and use the DD instead of the PLEX ( DolbyLogic Pro)?
  
 And is there a way to connect it to a PS4/XOne and PC at the same time and get both sound coming out of the headphone jack?
  
  
 Thank you,


----------



## mbyrnes

dsebastiao said:


> Guys i have some problems here...
> 
> First one, why can't i connect the Turtle Beach DSS to the PC and use the DD instead of the PLEX ( DolbyLogic Pro)?
> 
> ...




I use an optical switcher to have my Xbox, PS4, and cable box connected to my X7. You have to select the input, but it's simple and fast. No idea if this helps you.


----------



## expontherise

mbyrnes said:


> I use an optical switcher to have my Xbox, PS4, and cable box connected to my X7. You have to select the input, but it's simple and fast. No idea if this helps you.




Awesome! I needed one of these. Had no idea it was a thing! Is a cheap 1 ok or is there a reason to get a more pricey one i only need 3x1

Not that any are actually pricey lol.


----------



## Evshrug

mbyrnes said:


> I use an optical switcher to have my Xbox, PS4, and cable box connected to my X7. You have to select the input, but it's simple and fast. No idea if this helps you.



Would a switcher allow for both sources to play at once? I think it only allows for one source to play at a time.


----------



## Yethal

dsebastiao said:


> Guys i have some problems here...
> 
> First one, why can't i connect the Turtle Beach DSS to the PC and use the DD instead of the PLEX ( DolbyLogic Pro)?
> 
> ...



Plug optical into the xbox/ps4 and 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable from pc to the analog input on the dss to be able to hear both at the same time.


----------



## iAudio365

Guys,

Just a community service annoucement...

If you have windows 10 the new creators update is now out, and what is included in that update is DOLBY ATMOS suround sound which when activated will work on any set of headphones including ear buds lol.

I'm currently using it on my Mr Speaker Ether Flows and Sennheiser HD800S and it sounds, to me anyway, absolutely amazing in games, movies and music for some reason haha. 

To get it just install the new creators update for windows 10, head to the app store after update and serch for Dolby and you will see the app. Download it, follow the instructions and bang your in.

Only sucky thing is that it's free for 30 days only then you have to pay $18 to own it after that which I probably will anyway as I love knowing my high end gear can get all the surround love without ever needing horrible cheap gaming headsets. Plus it works for speakers etc, 

Anyway, just thought I would give ya'll the heads up.

Cheers


----------



## Yethal

iaudio365 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Just a community service annoucement...
> 
> If you have windows 10 (...)


----------



## Fegefeuer

iaudio365 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Just a community service annoucement...
> 
> ...


 
  
 Wasn't available for me yesterday evening (CET), still said "coming soon" under the Headphone section. Will check it out later today.


----------



## iAudio365

yethal said:


>




Oh well you miss out then


----------



## DSebastiao

mbyrnes said:


> I use an optical switcher to have my Xbox, PS4, and cable box connected to my X7. You have to select the input, but it's simple and fast. No idea if this helps you.


 
 But the only way to select it is by disconnecting the other right? 
  


yethal said:


> Plug optical into the xbox/ps4 and 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable from pc to the analog input on the dss to be able to hear both at the same time.


 
  
 That doesn't work, with both connect i can only hear the optical input.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> Wasn't available for me yesterday evening (CET), still said "coming soon" under the Headphone section. Will check it out later today.




Go to Windows store and update the app, from there you should be able to update Dolby Access app and should activate Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

I got the Creators update a few days ago (before it was fully released) but I still can not have it working properly.

This is why Yethal was like "How about no" lol. Mainly because whenever Windows releases a new OS update, it comes with some bugs and it's best to wait a bit longer.

But yeah, whwnever I turn on Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos it goes into 2 channel Stereo and the 7.1 virtual surround box is ticked. Not sure how Windows does its mixing but I tried it and it doesnt really work on my PC.

Sometimes it will even turn off Dolby Atmos or Sonic for no reason....


----------



## cskippy

iaudio365 said:


> Guys,
> 
> Just a community service annoucement...
> 
> ...


 
 Are you using an external DAC?  I've tried it as I'm a Windows Insider but was never able to get sound to work with it enabled.


----------



## Fegefeuer

it works for movies but usual games only read the 2.0 from the DAC. The whole system is BS right now. I don't know what they were thinking. Should have been a virtual soundcard with 7.1.4 LS where you define the output of your choice in its settings.


----------



## rudyae86

fegefeuer said:


> it works for movies but usual games only read the 2.0 from the DAC. The whole system is BS right now. I don't know what they were thinking. Should have been a virtual soundcard with 7.1.4 LS where you define the output of your choice in its settings.




Bingo! That is what I am trying to say lol.

This whole "virtual surround" isn't even close to what some of us use (Dolby headphone or SBX).

M$ letting me down.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

The only way for a decent 7.1 solution to work is with a 7.1 signal that uses a series of crossfeeds for the various pairings, but even that's going to be dicey. Simulating 7 speakers with 2 speakers is never going to "feel" like 7.1.


----------



## shuto77

someguydude said:


> The only way for a decent 7.1 solution to work is with a 7.1 signal that uses a series of crossfeeds for the various pairings, but even that's going to be dicey. Simulating 7 speakers with 2 speakers is never going to "feel" like 7.1.


 
  
 I haven't heard it myself, but I understand the Smyth Realiser might come pretty close. I think @Evshrug's heard it extensively (I think). But the "cheap" version is $1600, so you might as well just get a nice 7.1 system at that point.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

shuto77 said:


> I haven't heard it myself, but I understand the Smyth Realiser might come pretty close. I think @Evshrug's heard it extensively (I think). But the "cheap" version is $1600, so you might as well just get a nice 7.1 system at that point.


 
 I'm of the mind that if 7.1 surround is that important to you, then you should be using speakers, not headphones. No matter what, headphones are stereo, anything they can do is simulation at best.


----------



## iAudio365

cskippy said:


> Are you using an external DAC?  I've tried it as I'm a Windows Insider but was never able to get sound to work with it enabled.




Yes I am using with a chord Mojo, can hear the difference straight away in games etc


----------



## iAudio365

fegefeuer said:


> it works for movies but usual games only read the 2.0 from the DAC. The whole system is BS right now. I don't know what they were thinking. Should have been a virtual soundcard with 7.1.4 LS where you define the output of your choice in its settings.




The Atmos processing is added to the output while in digital form, and then typically sent to your computer's DAC to be converted to analogue for your headphone amp. You are just sending it to a better DAC for conversion, after the Atmos effect has been added.

It works great for me and I can tell the difference straight away. My HD800S and Ether flows sound amazing in games. It's pretty notocable to me actually. It may not be wiz bang audiophile 7.1 $3000 speaker great but for what it is, for my ears it sound pretty damn good. 

I can't complain, in fact am enjoying it right now 

Edit: using chord mojo with it.


----------



## rudyae86

Chordo Mojo....Chord Mojo.....Chord Mojo!!

Lol I need to get me one since it's the craze right now lol.


----------



## rudyae86

someguydude said:


> I'm of the mind that if 7.1 surround is that important to you, then you should be using speakers, not headphones. No matter what, headphones are stereo, anything they can do is simulation at best.




Uh I think we know that already buddy lol.


----------



## pervysage

someguydude said:


> I'm of the mind that if 7.1 surround is that important to you, then you should be using speakers, not headphones. No matter what, headphones are stereo, anything they can do is simulation at best.




Read impressions about people that have tried the Realiser in person. They are literally dumbfounded and can't tell a difference between the "simulation" and real speakers. 

Haven't tried it personally as I'm way up in Canada, but as far as I've seen the reviews are all very positive.


----------



## SomeGuyDude

pervysage said:


> Read impressions about people that have tried the Realiser in person. They are literally dumbfounded and can't tell a difference between the "simulation" and real speakers.
> 
> Haven't tried it personally as I'm way up in Canada, but as far as I've seen the reviews are all very positive.


 
  
 For $1700 I'd just get actual speakers if that's what I'm trying to achieve.
  
 The other problem is that true 7.1 doesn't move with you. Unless this thing has motion tracking then it means the "7.1 surround" is going to rotate and shift with your head, meaning you can't "look at" where the sound is coming from. It's just a futile pursuit, IMO. For the cost, it's not worth it.


----------



## iAudio365

rudyae86 said:


> Chordo Mojo....Chord Mojo.....Chord Mojo!!
> 
> Lol I need to get me one since it's the craze right now lol.




I'm actually about to upgrade to chord hugo 2, thats my end game my needs. 

But yes the mojo is great, it's tiny and versitile for both desktop and portable.


----------



## raband

someguydude said:


> The other problem is that true 7.1 doesn't move with you. Unless this thing has motion tracking then it means the "7.1 surround" is going to rotate and shift with your head, meaning you can't "look at" where the sound is coming from. It's just a futile pursuit, IMO. For the cost, it's not worth it.


 
  
 It does indeed have motion tracking 
  
 You turn/move and the sounds remain coming from the correct points in space


----------



## SomeGuyDude

raband said:


> It does indeed have motion tracking
> 
> You turn/move and the sounds remain coming from the correct points in space


 
 That's definitely a good step, then. 
  
 I dunno, I'm just not sure the appeal of spending that kind of money instead of a few speakers, unless you really, _really _can't have them.


----------



## raband

Realistic multi channel listening through headphones, with you able to have different room setups, dynamics, systems regardless of your own environment at the push of a button.
  
 Legit 5.1 for media that's 5.1, 7.1.2 for media that it supports, 2.0 with the realism of a speaker system for stereo, spaciousness of a concert hall even if the listening room is the size of an outhouse.
  
 Late night or listening in densely populated areas with no concern that you're intruding upon family or neighbours.
  
 The ability to have setups through the A16 that you couldn't afford otherwise
  
 The ability to ignore actual room dynamics and have the sound play as if the room was perfectly conditioned
  
 The ability to move the set easily to other areas, rooms, locations and still have it sound exactly as it does elsewhere.
  
 How'd you like to have your (or someone else's) $xxxxxxx sound system replicated perfectly so you can listen to it in bed while the other half sleeps?
  
 Gaming/VR etc with the soundstage actually matching the environment
  
 Loungeroom design such that the TV is stuck in a corner (we don't all have perfectly designed and designated listening or theater rooms)- won't matter - A16 will place the speakers where they're meant to be, regardless of walls, furniture etc
  
 From what I've read and seen - the A16 should do all this and more - all for a price that's reasonable to many (far less than some spend on cabling alone)
  
 We're all here because we've chosen headphones for various reasons - the thought of being able to use them to replace a multi dollar, multi speaker system makes a hell of a lot of sense to many.
  
 If it's honestly as good as it's being reported to be then hell yeah - I can see the appeal (have pre-ordered)
  
 Main area I see it falling short is in LFE (where a subwoofer would be in a speaker system) - hopefully a transducer (buttkicker etc) will alleviate much of that issue.
  
  
 edit: because you're asking in the gaming headphone thread - PC/Console gaming audio that would put to shame the other VSS solutions and almost all peoples computer audio setups - if you think the THX demo videos etc sound good now with headphones, wait til they sound like you're in an actual theater while wearing the cans


----------



## rudyae86

raband said:


> Realistic multi channel listening through headphones, with you able to have different room setups, dynamics, systems regardless of your own environment at the push of a button.
> 
> Legit 5.1 for media that's 5.1, 7.1.2 for media that it supports, 2.0 with the realism of a speaker system for stereo, spaciousness of a concert hall even if the listening room is the size of an outhouse.
> 
> ...




This^^^

Especially if you are playing multiplayer games. You wouldn't want your thousand dollar set up of speakers making your friends feel annoyed because all that feedback is going into your mic lol.

Trust me, friends would mute me lol.


----------



## raband

Lol - I have one mate who refuses to use "push to talk" or even "voice activation" and his mic stays permanently open
  
 Every sip of drink, drag on his vape, clearing of throat or scratch of his balls are heard by everyone


----------



## iAudio365

Can anyone redommend some reasonable desktop speakers for about a $1-3k? (Can definitely stretch for the right setup) I will use them for gaming and music mostly so the bass can't be lacking. 

I was looking at the KEF X300A but apparently the bass is quite lacking when it comes to gaming. Saw the Kef egg size is fantastic but again I jear the sound is lacking for games and edm etc.

Kef LS50 any good? Can get them on special at the moment

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Edit: I'm reading that "active speakers" provide a lot of good options without the hassle of adding aditional amps etc like I would need to with the Kefs, The X300A are active I beleive but as mentioned the bass is meant to be very lacking for gaming, edm etc.


----------



## shuto77

iaudio365 said:


> Can anyone redommend some reasonable desktop speakers for about a $1-3k? (Can definitely stretch for the right setup) I will use them for gaming and music mostly so the bass can't be lacking.
> 
> I was looking at the KEF X300A but apparently the bass is quite lacking when it comes to gaming. Saw the Kef egg size is fantastic but again I jear the sound is lacking for games and edm etc.
> 
> ...


 
  
 If you're open to spending over $1,000, you should just go with a dedicated stereo receiver and two nice bookshelf speakers. I'm using the Klipsch RP160 monitors as the main left and right speakers in my setup with a matching center channel speaker. I think they run about $350-$400 at the moment. Then, you can get a decent receiver from Accessories for less for like $300. Then you can add a sub if you need it. I may add a sub, but these speakers are very powerful, and have a really nice bass response, so I'm not a huge hurry. 
  
 I don't know much about powered speakers, but I do know they're an integrated solution (speakers plus amp in same package). Integrated solutions are usually inferior to their counterparts that are separate units.


----------



## expontherise

raband said:


> Lol - I have one mate who refuses to use "push to talk" or even "voice activation" and his mic stays permanently open
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 


and with the realizer, you can then hear the ball scratch's like you... were there... Oh yeah!!


----------



## Yethal

expontherise said:


> raband said:
> 
> 
> > Lol - I have one mate who refuses to use "push to talk" or even "voice activation" and his mic stays permanently open
> ...


 

 This makes me wonder, does VR porn have 3D audio implemented?


----------



## headphonesonly

yethal said:


> This makes me wonder, does VR porn have 3D audio implemented?


A friend of mine said yes.


----------



## Yethal

headphonesonly said:


> A friend of mine said yes.


 

 Is it realistic enough to hear the cameraman's heavy breathing?


----------



## headphonesonly

yethal said:


> Is it realistic enough to hear the cameraman's heavy breathing?


It's like you're there lol.


----------



## Yethal

headphonesonly said:


> It's like you're there lol.


 

 Awesome! Can you see the cameraman if you turn around?


----------



## headphonesonly

yethal said:


> Awesome! Can you see the cameraman if you turn around?


I don't think you can see his face but why would you want to anyways.


----------



## Yethal

headphonesonly said:


> I don't think you can see his face but why would you want to anyways.


 

 Curiosity mostly.


----------



## expontherise

yethal said:


> Curiosity mostly.


 

 Im pretty sure you can just assume the camera man looks like your avatar


----------



## Darch

I've only just heard about the Smyth Realiser, but it looks very, _very_ interesting. One point however; the personalisation seems to be a big selling point. But do you need to have a surround speaker set-up already in place, for the personalisation process to be carried out?


----------



## raband

You can do it with a single speaker, moving it or yourself to take the correct positional readings


----------



## Darch

Ah, that's pretty nifty. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## raband

Getting me excited 
  
 Once you've got your own personal measurements you can apply them to other peoples speaker/setup data to use (eg - if someone made their file from their home theater,a proper studio, concert hall, theatre etc available)


----------



## apaar123

Can anyone recommend not so costly gaming speakers which will be used not much since I use headphones more?


----------



## SomeGuyDude

TBH the Logitech z623 are all I need out of speakers.


----------



## apaar123

One more question guys. Should I buy a soundcard if I am already buying a high end amp/dac


----------



## rudyae86

apaar123 said:


> One more question guys. Should I buy a soundcard if I am already buying a high end amp/dac


 
 If you want to use HRTF like Dolby Headphone (Asus) or SBX (Creative Labs) then yes. But the DAC must have an optical input in order for the sound card to send Dolby Headphone or SBX into the DAC (which is processed 5.1 or 7.1 turned into 2.0 channel audio).
  
 If you do not care for any of this virtual surround sound than you don't need one of these sound cards.


----------



## apaar123

rudyae86 said:


> If you want to use HRTF like Dolby Headphone (Asus) or SBX (Creative Labs) then yes. But the DAC must have an optical input in order for the sound card to send Dolby Headphone or SBX into the DAC (which is processed 5.1 or 7.1 turned into 2.0 channel audio).
> 
> If you do not care for any of this virtual surround sound than you don't need one of these sound cards.


I won't be buying Dolby headphone. I will be buying akg k712


----------



## Rompe

apaar123 said:


> I won't be buying Dolby headphone. I will be buying akg k712


 
 He means the HRTF DSP method for virtual surround, not actual headphones.  Sound cards usually come with one of these methods. Most Asus sound cards come with Dolby Headphone.


----------



## apaar123

rompe said:


> He means the HRTF DSP method for virtual surround, not actual headphones.  Sound cards usually come with one of these methods. Most Asus sound cards come with Dolby Headphone.


I have no idea what that is but my amp has 3d surround has xboost tho


----------



## Rompe

apaar123 said:


> I have no idea what that is but my amp has 3d surround has xboost tho


 
 Basically. if you want to hear surround sound like 7.1 through your 2-channel stereo headphones like AKG K712, the 7.1 audio the game/movie produces must be first digitally processed by a HRTF method for 2 channels. Otherwise you wont hear anything or hear only the 2 front channels of the 7.1 audio. HRTF DSP creates illusion like you were listening 7.1 audio even though your headphones are only 2 channels (therefore it's called virtual surround). Some HRTF methods do it better than others.


----------



## apaar123

rompe said:


> Basically. if you want to hear surround sound like 7.1 through your 2-channel stereo headphones like AKG K712, the 7.1 audio the game/movie produces must be first digitally processed by a HRTF method for 2 channels. Otherwise you wont hear anything or hear only the 2 front channels of the 7.1 audio. HRTF DSP creates illusion like you were listening 7.1 audio even though your headphones are only 2 channels (therefore it's called virtual surround). Some HRTF methods do it better than others.


But if I am using a DAC,won't it overcome the soundcard?


----------



## Rompe

apaar123 said:


> But if I am using a DAC,won't it overcome the soundcard?


 
 Not if your sound card can push the processed 2-channel audio through its optical output (SPDIF). That's why *rudyae86 *stated your DAC must have optical input.


----------



## Evshrug

apaar123 said:


> But if I am using a DAC,won't it overcome the soundcard?




It's a bit tricky to explain, there are special vocabulary words for gaming sound.
When listening to game audio with traditional headphones (AKG K712), you can listen in Stereo or process a Virtual Surround.
A stereo setup with a computer would look like this:
PC>DAC>Amp>K712
(Many PC's have low-quality DACs and Amps built-in)

A headphone Virtual Surrround setup with a computer would look like this:
PC> Soundcard's Optical out (digital) > DAC > Amp > K712
In this case, the Soundcard's only duty is *D*igital *S*ignal *P*rocessing, or DSP. The DSP is what makes the Virtual Surround effect, and that effect is passed along to the DAC.

That said, Soundcards typically have pretty good DACs built-in too, if you want to save some money. What DAC were you planning on buying?


----------



## apaar123

evshrug said:


> It's a bit tricky to explain, there are special vocabulary words for gaming sound.
> When listening to game audio with traditional headphones (AKG K712), you can listen in Stereo or process a Virtual Surround.
> A stereo setup with a computer would look like this:
> PC>DAC>Amp>K712
> ...


ifi micro idsd black


----------



## rudyae86

apaar123 said:


> ifi micro idsd black


 
 Nice choice.....
  
 But to help you out even further let me ask you one thing.....
  
 Do you know what virtual surround sound is?
  
 Reason is because if you came into this thread it is because you read page 1 of this thread, it should explain what virtual surround sound or what an HRTF is.
  
 This thread mainly focuses on virtual surround sound and devices that are used to give us virtual surround sound but there are times where we will need to use an amp to drive headphones that require more juice.
  
 Since this is specifically a thread meant for console users (PS4 and XBONE mainly) some of us do have experience and are using PC for gaming as well. With that said, if you can not fully understand what virtual surround sound is, then you don't really need such feature (yet).
  
 As to answer your question if you need a sound card to use your iDSD......you don't. iDSD can be used when plugged into a USB and you are pretty much good to go. I would suggest looking in the forums for the iDSD amp/dac thread and ask further question about your iDSD.
  
 Also the 3D surround feature and xbass feature have nothing to do with what we are trying to explain....those are 2 features that just slightly enhance stereo sound which is personal preference I believe but not really related to what we talk about in this thread.
  
 I hope you can understand what I am talking about so you could understand what is going on here and hopefully better your experience with your micro iDSD.


----------



## rudyae86

And here it is.....
  

  
 Only reason I got Battlefront on PS4 is because it came with it for free. Although the Ultimate edition for PC might drop around 15 dollars soon, so I might...pick it up.
  
 SWBF 2 now has a SP which is for the new series of movies which is not what we asked for but oh well lol.
  
 And remember, don't preorder


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> And here it is.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Change is Good

I'm surprised that the campaign will be canon, so I hope it's good. No season pass is also a plus.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

What recent single player games you played that had good sound design? 
One that pops on the top of my head is the metro series.


----------



## cskippy

I haven't even tried the multiplayer yet but Ttianfall 2 with Soundblaster SBX has great sound design and pinpoint accuracy for sound placement all around you.  Using HE-6 or M1060.  I find planars work best for gaming, especially with virtual surround processing.


----------



## mrkingdomhearts

I hope the 1060s are still on sale for my birthday next month.


----------



## Jenslol

So how do you guys play games?
  
 I have schiit magni 2 and the fulla 2 as a dac and i cant pair my headset that, so i have my gaming headset into the motherboard and i can hear the quality diffrence ingame. but i still need the mic to talk with friends or teamchat cause of competetive games (overwatch).
  
 also double headphone/headset gives me annoying cable issues. 
  
 cant pair a mic on my headphones cause they deliver so bad positinal audio (sennheiser 600 and 400i) 
  
 Wireless option would be optimal, but there are no no really good ones that i know off? 
  
 How do you guys play basically play games ?
  
  
  
 edit: I have hyperx revolvers as headset. They do okay for accurcy, but i feel there is easily better.


----------



## Zyker

jenslol said:


> So how do you guys play games?
> 
> I have schiit magni 2 and the fulla 2 as a dac and i cant pair my headset that, so i have my gaming headset into the motherboard and i can hear the quality diffrence ingame. but i still need the mic to talk with friends or teamchat cause of competetive games (overwatch).
> 
> ...


 
 Are you asking about PC or console?
  
 On PC, I'm awful and just have my a900x connected to the Sound Blaster Z.  My mic is a Blue Yeti blackout connected via USB.
  
 For console, I've got my PS4 connected to a Sound Blaster X7 (via optical and USB for mic).  My headphones for that are the Hifiman 400i with an attached ModMic.


----------



## AxelCloris

PC: Mic < Interface < Tower > Mojo > Ether Flow
 Console: Mixamp 5.8 Wireless > BoomPro > SHP9500


----------



## Jenslol

Oh I just play PC! 

 I actually tried the ad700x one because they was so praised. 
  
 I think the engine in overwatch is slight diffrent tho, cause it has dolby atmos surround and it should be enabled with 2.0 headphones and it gives advantage in sound accurucy.
 The experience with 700x for me (i had them into my motherboard at that time) was not good. Could be cause of i had dolby on or that the motherboard couldnt handle them, i dont know.


----------



## expontherise

I don't do wireless myself. My wife's brother needs it though and isn't looking for top end... Best Lower end Fully wireless Xbox one headset? (I am thinking the referral is going to be the turtle beach 420x+?? I tried to talk him in to the steel series Siberia 800, but I agreed they are expensive for just a gaming headset. He is casual gamer, does not play competitive)

(Why 'need' wireless when it just plugs in to your controller you say? lol.. I don't know I tried to get an answer there myself)


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Hi all - a bit more PS4 related advice if possible please.  After hating the latest Astro A50 surround sound, I ended up using a Skullkandy Playr1 for a few months (which I got new for about £45) - was really pleased with the for wireless console gaming until my wife broke them!!
  
 Now using a pair of Hyper X Cloud X which I got half price and yesterday received a Creative G5 I got for less than £40.  Not worried about surround sound (obviously) and really pleased with what the G5 does but still not convinced the Hyper X (while great) are just what I want.  I prefer open back so I can hear myself talk when online.  The Hyper X sound pretty good with the leather pads but isolate too much and with the cloth pads they sound too thin and harsh to my ears.
  
 So, I need a set of open back headphones or an open backed gaming headset to pair with the G5.  I have a VModa Boom Mic I can use so maybe a set of SHP9500? I was also thinking Sennheiser Game One - here in the UK the Senns are about £150 and that's about as much as I want to pay ideally.
  
 Thanks in advance.


----------



## Yethal

whitehartmart said:


> Hi all - a bit more PS4 related advice if possible please.  After hating the latest Astro A50 surround sound, I ended up using a Skullkandy Playr1 for a few months (which I got new for about £45) - was really pleased with the for wireless console gaming until my wife broke them!!
> 
> Now using a pair of Hyper X Cloud X which I got half price and yesterday received a Creative G5 I got for less than £40.  Not worried about surround sound (obviously) and really pleased with what the G5 does but still not convinced the Hyper X (while great) are just what I want.  I prefer open back so I can hear myself talk when online.  The Hyper X sound pretty good with the leather pads but isolate too much and with the cloth pads they sound too thin and harsh to my ears.
> 
> ...



You could buy hd598 and a $1 adapter to connect it to the boompro.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

whitehartmart said:


> Hi all - a bit more PS4 related advice if possible please.  After hating the latest Astro A50 surround sound, I ended up using a Skullkandy Playr1 for a few months (which I got new for about £45) - was really pleased with the for wireless console gaming until my wife broke them!!
> 
> Now using a pair of Hyper X Cloud X which I got half price and yesterday received a Creative G5 I got for less than £40.  Not worried about surround sound (obviously) and really pleased with what the G5 does but still not convinced the Hyper X (while great) are just what I want.  I prefer open back so I can hear myself talk when online.  The Hyper X sound pretty good with the leather pads but isolate too much and with the cloth pads they sound too thin and harsh to my ears.
> 
> ...


 

 I am personally very disappointed with the Game One. I own the Cloud 2s which is a great headset for the price. If I were in your position (as you own the Boom Pro) I'd be looking at the Fidelio X2. I've not personally tried it but I've heard a lot of good things about it and it's Boom Pro compatible. I decided to go the headset route but if I had the opportunity to do it again I'd go with the X2 if you can afford/justify it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Thanks for the suggestions - X2s are a little over budget here in the UK (about £215 on Amazon I think).  Plus I think they may be a tad heavier in the bass than what I like.  The 598s might well fit the bill if I can find them for sale here so will have a look.  Cheers.


----------



## AxelCloris

I think the Game One is an ok offering, but personally for the price I feel there are better options out there. Sennheiser's new Massdrop collaboration, the PC37X was more enjoyable for me when it came to gaming. I don't know what that would run you in the UK with international shipping, VAT and all that.
  
 I use the SHP9500 + BoomPro combo for my PS4 and Mixamp. That's a solid budget offering IMO. I'm debating swapping the pads sometime for a bit more comfort, but as stock I still like the set for games.
  
 How much does the Sennheiser HD 599 cost across the pond? I prefer the HD 599 to the HD 598, but the HD 598 is probably easier on the budget.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

whitehartmart said:


> Thanks for the suggestions - X2s are a little over budget here in the UK (about £215 on Amazon I think).  Plus I think they may be a tad heavier in the bass than what I like.  The 598s might well fit the bill if I can find them for sale here so will have a look.  Cheers.


 

 598s sound like a great choice. I guess I was kind of projecting my own desire there. BTW, I live in the Channel Islands, so I do my shopping on UK sites too.
  
 I bought the Game One because I thought it could do double duty as a music and gaming headset and that it would be like a slightly less refined 598. I don't own the 598 but do own the HD600 and have read plenty of comparisons between them so have an idea of what to expect. Going from descriptions of the 598's sound, the Game One doesn't seem to be much like the 598 at all.
  
 I found the Game One to be very light on bass, unmusical and closed sounding despite being classed as open back (I'd personally describe them as semi-open). The clamping force is too heavy for my liking, punchy snare hits in a track are so forward it makes my ears tense up (so are fatiguing) and certain frequencies seem to cause a resonance that makes the left ear cup buzz slightly (might have to talk to Sennheiser about that). I'm really not too impressed and personally would not recommend them.


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> I bought the Game One because I thought it could do double duty as a music and gaming headset and that it would be like a slightly less refined 598. I don't own the 598 but do own the HD600 and have read plenty of comparisons between them so have an idea of what to expect. Going from descriptions of the 598's sound, the Game One doesn't seem to be much like the 598 at all.


 
  
 You already have the HD 600? Why not just add a mic and call it a day? You can get a Modmic if you want it attached to the headphone - or an external mic if you don't - and be done. That should be cheaper than buying a new headphone entirely.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> You already have the HD 600? Why not just add a mic and call it a day? You can get a Modmic if you want it attached to the headphone - or an external mic if you don't - and be done. That should be cheaper than buying a new headphone entirely.


 

 I tried the Modmic and wasn't a fan. Having two cables got on my nerves and when I used cable braiding it made them (K240 MKiis I was using at the time) look ugly. I mostly sit/lay on my bed when gaming and haven't found an elegant mic solution for when using the HD600s yet. I'm considering going with a lapel mic but not sure which one.


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> I tried the Modmic and wasn't a fan. Having two cables got on my nerves and when I used cable braiding it made them (K240 MKiis I was using at the time) look ugly. I mostly sit/lay on my bed when gaming and haven't found an elegant mic solution for when using the HD600s yet. I'm considering going with a lapel mic but not sure which one.


 
  
 I tried the clip-on mics and honestly every one I tried was garbage. To be fair, they were incredibly cheap so I know that was part of it. Braiding the Modmic cable certainly isn't pretty, but it's effective. There's also the option to heat shrink the Modmic cable with its own HD 650 cable for a perfect fusion.
  
 Playing from the bed, eh? How about mounting a cheapish mic on a mic stand?


----------



## lenroot77

Recently acquired a mmx 300 headset, a few thoughts:

Compared to the game one, the mmx300 has more impactful bass and a bit more on the higher frequencies as well. (Typical of Beyer products). This headset isolates extremely well as it's a closed can, but with that comes a slightly smaller soundstage. It's certainly above average for a closed can and positioning is just fine.The build quality is excellent, headset feels very solid. My friends said the mic was very clear in chat; It's very flexible to accomadate whatever position one chooses. 

Overall really nice headset, one I've wanted to check out for a while now. In the end I need an open headset, so I can hear my son if he wakes up at night.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> I tried the clip-on mics and honestly every one I tried was garbage. To be fair, they were incredibly cheap so I know that was part of it. Braiding the Modmic cable certainly isn't pretty, but it's effective. There's also the option to heat shrink the Modmic cable with its own HD 650 cable for a perfect fusion.
> 
> Playing from the bed, eh? How about mounting a cheapish mic on a mic stand?


 

 I have a few ideas floating around at the moment. One was some kind of table clamp that I could attach a boom to (just the top portion of a typical mic stand rather that a full scissor arm) and attach that to the stool I'm using as a bedside table (What can I say? It fits). I was also considering buying a USB class compliant mixer so I could use my XLR mics, but I don't have a great deal of space so it would be one more thing cluttering up my room.
  
 I barely play online at the moment so may just use the Cloud 2 if I need a mic and use the HD600 the rest of the time. I don't have any urgency at present but would like to figure a way to use whatever headphone I want with a convenient mic solution in future.


----------



## mbyrnes

OK so I finally picked up a PS4 (pro), and I am wondering what games are must own. I picked up The Last of Us as I gave away my PS3 before it released on it. Also grabbed MLB The Show 2017 (main reason to push me to PS4). I plan on getting Uncharted 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn once I complete Mafia 3 on Xbox, TLoU, and Dishonored 2 (Xbox). Resident Evil 7 is another I will get on PS4. Am I missing any exclusives that are must own? Please go back to the start, as I am sure some of the launch year games are good, and left off of best of lists. 
  
 While the PS4 controller is the best Sony has made yet, I still despise the stick layout. Any suggestions on an Xbox style layout controller that isn't complete junk? This is a huge deciding factor as to which console I buy a game for. I'll also buy a Scorpio day one, so most shooters I will get for Xbox, and enjoy the better controller and better graphics down the road.


----------



## AxelCloris

napalmhardcore said:


> I have a few ideas floating around at the moment. One was some kind of table clamp that I could attach a boom to (just the top portion of a typical mic stand rather that a full scissor arm) and attach that to the stool I'm using as a bedside table (What can I say? It fits). I was also considering buying a USB class compliant mixer so I could use my XLR mics, but I don't have a great deal of space so it would be one more thing cluttering up my room.
> 
> I barely play online at the moment so may just use the Cloud 2 if I need a mic and use the HD600 the rest of the time. I don't have any urgency at present but would like to figure a way to use whatever headphone I want with a convenient mic solution in future.


 
  
 Something like this might work for you. I use the same one on my apartment's desk. There are higher quality desk arms available, but this is convenient and has an (admittedly very cheap) XLR cable built-in. You can easily get a compact USB interface that could attach physically to the boom with a tie, like the Blue Icicle, so it doesn't take up space. I'm not sure if the Blue would work with a console, but it has no issues with a PC or Mac.
  
 I subscribe to the school of thought that if you have high end gear, why not use it? Have great mics? Use those! Your teammates will appreciate the clear game chats.


----------



## TeeReQs

mbyrnes said:


> OK so I finally picked up a PS4 (pro), and I am wondering what games are must own. I picked up The Last of Us as I gave away my PS3 before it released on it. Also grabbed MLB The Show 2017 (main reason to push me to PS4). I plan on getting Uncharted 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn once I complete Mafia 3 on Xbox, TLoU, and Dishonored 2 (Xbox). Resident Evil 7 is another I will get on PS4. Am I missing any exclusives that are must own? Please go back to the start, as I am sure some of the launch year games are good, and left off of best of lists.
> 
> While the PS4 controller is the best Sony has made yet, I still despise the stick layout. Any suggestions on an Xbox style layout controller that isn't complete junk? This is a huge deciding factor as to which console I buy a game for. I'll also buy a Scorpio day one, so most shooters I will get for Xbox, and enjoy the better controller and better graphics down the road.


 
 Definitely Uncharted, TLOU and The Show. Those have been my favorite games so far. I haven't picked up the show 17, but enjoyed 16, and it's the only option for a baseball sim.


----------



## shuto77

mbyrnes said:


> OK so I finally picked up a PS4 (pro), and I am wondering what games are must own. I picked up The Last of Us as I gave away my PS3 before it released on it. Also grabbed MLB The Show 2017 (main reason to push me to PS4). I plan on getting Uncharted 4, Horizon: Zero Dawn once I complete Mafia 3 on Xbox, TLoU, and Dishonored 2 (Xbox). Resident Evil 7 is another I will get on PS4. Am I missing any exclusives that are must own? Please go back to the start, as I am sure some of the launch year games are good, and left off of best of lists.
> 
> While the PS4 controller is the best Sony has made yet, I still despise the stick layout. Any suggestions on an Xbox style layout controller that isn't complete junk? This is a huge deciding factor as to which console I buy a game for. I'll also buy a Scorpio day one, so most shooters I will get for Xbox, and enjoy the better controller and better graphics down the road.


 
  
 I'm playing through Metal Gear Solid 5 - love it. It's the best of the bunch, and most modern by a wide margin, IMO. And I always go back to The Witcher 3. Great, great games!


----------



## Napalmhardcore

axelcloris said:


> Something like this might work for you. I use the same one on my apartment's desk. There are higher quality desk arms available, but this is convenient and has an (admittedly very cheap) XLR cable built-in. You can easily get a compact USB interface that could attach physically to the boom with a tie, like the Blue Icicle, so it doesn't take up space. I'm not sure if the Blue would work with a console, but it has no issues with a PC or Mac.
> 
> I subscribe to the school of thought that if you have high end gear, why not use it? Have great mics? Use those! Your teammates will appreciate the clear game chats.


 

 Thanks for the suggestion. That's definitely something to consider. I was eyeing the Rode one for a little while but got hung up on what mixer to get and whether I wanted to go that route at all or go with a lapel mic, so the idea kind of got buried. I also may need to buy a new DAC soon, so I'm watching what I spend.
  
 It seems my new amp (Little Dot MKiii) doesn't play nice with the stereo output on my Omni. It produces a high pitched noise that isn't present when I use the line out setting on my Fiio X1. I've sent an email to David at Little Dot to see if he might be able to suggest what the problem is. I don't know if it's an incompatibility from a design perspective or if there is a problem with my Omni in particular. I know that the Little Dot shouldn't be coupled to an amp with a DC coupled input if using it as a preamp. I just wasn't sure if there was some similar issue with the output of the Omni/the input of the LD MKiii. I figure that if I'm going to buy a DAC, I may as well get something decent (for my budget anyway).


----------



## mbyrnes

Thanks for the suggestions. I've bought every major multiplatform release for Xbox One. So really looking for must play PS4 exclusives. I have a few lined up so I'm good for the time being. Just trying to make sure I'm not missing an older game or two that are must play.


----------



## ElectronicTonic

mbyrnes said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I've bought every major multiplatform release for Xbox One. So really looking for must play PS4 exclusives. I have a few lined up so I'm good for the time being. Just trying to make sure I'm not missing an older game or two that are must play.


Horizon Zero Dawn is awesome.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

axelcloris said:


> I think the Game One is an ok offering, but personally for the price I feel there are better options out there. Sennheiser's new Massdrop collaboration, the PC37X was more enjoyable for me when it came to gaming. I don't know what that would run you in the UK with international shipping, VAT and all that.
> 
> I use the SHP9500 + BoomPro combo for my PS4 and Mixamp. That's a solid budget offering IMO. I'm debating swapping the pads sometime for a bit more comfort, but as stock I still like the set for games.
> 
> How much does the Sennheiser HD 599 cost across the pond? I prefer the HD 599 to the HD 598, but the HD 598 is probably easier on the budget.


 
  
 599 is £200 approx over here.  SHP9500 £86 - Pretty sure which route I'd go out of those two (value wise  )
  
  


napalmhardcore said:


> 598s sound like a great choice. I guess I was kind of projecting my own desire there. BTW, I live in the Channel Islands, so I do my shopping on UK sites too.
> 
> I bought the Game One because I thought it could do double duty as a music and gaming headset and that it would be like a slightly less refined 598. I don't own the 598 but do own the HD600 and have read plenty of comparisons between them so have an idea of what to expect. Going from descriptions of the 598's sound, the Game One doesn't seem to be much like the 598 at all.
> 
> I found the Game One to be very light on bass, unmusical and closed sounding despite being classed as open back (I'd personally describe them as semi-open). The clamping force is too heavy for my liking, punchy snare hits in a track are so forward it makes my ears tense up (so are fatiguing) and certain frequencies seem to cause a resonance that makes the left ear cup buzz slightly (might have to talk to Sennheiser about that). I'm really not too impressed and personally would not recommend them.


 
  
 Thanks for that - don't really want to spend Game One kind of money unless they would provide a significant inprovement. Maybe I'll wait until Massdrop do the PC37x again?
  
 After a BF1 session last night, I'm sure I'll ditch the Hyper X Cloud X for online gaming at least - I played the first hour with them in a party with a good friend, then switched to my Superlux HD681 Evo with adaptor and Boom Pro.  Friend didn't know which setup I was using but commented how much better (significantly so) I sounded with the Boom Pro.  Both sets played via the Creative G5.
  
 Additionally, I just don't like closed back for online - not a fan of the less spacious sound and also the extra isolation meaning I can barely hear myself speak.
  
 Might keep the Hyper X for single player stuff but think I'll got for the SHP9500 early next week.


----------



## Napalmhardcore

whitehartmart said:


> 599 is £200 approx over here.  SHP9500 £86 - Pretty sure which route I'd go out of those two (value wise  )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Perhaps it is because I listen at relatively low volume, but I find the significance of whether a headphone is open or closed back is overstated when it comes to their spaciousness/soundstage size. I'm guessing at higher listening volumes it becomes more significant as reflections become more of an issue and open backed headphones ability to let the soundwaves escape comes into play. Or perhaps I'm just weird lol.


----------



## raband

Nothing wrong with the HD681's - grab some cheap velour (comfy) pads for a few bucks and they're 90% as good as a........
  
  
 edit: was honestly trying to send a set of the Superlux/Samson varieties to MLE a couple of years ago to get them added to the list - they really are the budget killers without the FOTM of the SHP's (I think I got 2 pairs for $30)


----------



## Change is Good

mbyrnes said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. I've bought every major multiplatform release for Xbox One. So really looking for must play PS4 exclusives. I have a few lined up so I'm good for the time being. Just trying to make sure I'm not missing an older game or two that are must play.




Bloodborne, Nioh, Driveclub, Persona 5, The Show, Horizon, TLOU, Until Dawn, Heavy Rain, and Let it Die (free) are my personal suggestions.

I want to gamefly Nier: Automata, Uncharted series (yes, shame me for never playing them), and Rachet & Clank. Waiting to clear some of my recent backlog before signing up, though. 

Oh, and I'm borrowing Last Guardian from my neighbor whenever I finish and give him back Mafia 3.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

raband said:


> Nothing wrong with the HD681's - grab some cheap velour (comfy) pads for a few bucks and they're 90% as good as a........
> 
> 
> edit: was honestly trying to send a set of the Superlux/Samson varieties to MLE a couple of years ago to get them added to the list - they really are the budget killers without the FOTM of the SHP's (I think I got 2 pairs for $30)


 
  
 Yea - I have the 681 Evo's so they came with a set of velour pads in the box so I swapped them with the leatherette ones immediately.  Sound-wise they are great - just wish they had a female 3.5mm jack so I didn't have to use the Boom Pro dangling from an adaptor.  Minor issue I guess.


----------



## mbyrnes

change is good said:


> Bloodborne, Nioh, Driveclub, Persona 5, The Show, Horizon, TLOU, Until Dawn, Heavy Rain, and Let it Die (free) are my personal suggestions.
> 
> I want to gamefly Nier: Automata, Uncharted series (yes, shame me for never playing them), and Rachet & Clank. Waiting to clear some of my recent backlog before signing up, though.
> 
> Oh, and I'm borrowing Last Guardian from my neighbor whenever I finish and give him back Mafia 3.




Excellent list. You have to play Uncharted! 1 was good, 2 was awesome, 3 was good. I'm waiting to catch 4 on sale since it's old now. 

Love Mafia 3 but it's poorly developed. Good story though. Hope to finish it soon to get back to TLoU. Played Heavy Rain on PS3, great game as well. 

Most excited for Horizon. May wait on a few back log games to get it in sooner. Thank you for the list!


----------



## raband

whitehartmart said:


> just wish they had a female 3.5mm jack so I didn't have to use the Boom Pro dangling from an adaptor.  Minor issue I guess.


 
  
  
 90% of my issues with headphones are the cables
  
 I have heaps (of headphones and cables) - why the fark can't they make them all detachable and agree on a single connector?
  
 It shouldn't have to feel like xmas when you get a new set of cans and they share a plug with an existing set.
  
 It shouldn't have to be an issue as to which connector you want to use if you decide to mod your cans to accept your choice of cables.
  
 We pretty much have the cable issue solved with phones (except for Apple) - we need to do the same with headphones (except for Apple)


----------



## shuto77

raband said:


> 90% of my issues with headphones are the cables
> 
> I have heaps (of headphones and cables) - why the fark can't they make them all detachable and agree on a single connector?
> 
> ...




Agreed. I just wish everyone would use mini-xlr like Audeze, or the MrSpeakers Hirose connectors, with an easy option to connect a microphone.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I prefer 3,5mm. My AH-D7200 for instance runs off a Beyerdynamic T5p 2G/T1 2G cable. Meze cables would fit as well and plenty of others.


----------



## raband

3.5mm TRRRS in and out would be a perfect standard - 1 size fits all,
  
 2.5mm in, 3.5mm out would solve size issues and keep a happy standard.
  
 RCA or screw in coax with CAT5 out would be annoying as all ****, but if it was standardised it'd be better than what we have now.
  
 Hell - banana in and out - if everything had it would suit me fine.


----------



## Change is Good

mbyrnes said:


> Excellent list. You have to play Uncharted! 1 was good, 2 was awesome, 3 was good. I'm waiting to catch 4 on sale since it's old now.
> 
> *Love Mafia 3 but it's poorly developed*. *Good story though*. Hope to finish it soon to get back to TLoU. Played Heavy Rain on PS3, great game as well.
> 
> Most excited for Horizon. May wait on a few back log games to get it in sooner. Thank you for the list!


 
  
 This. The story is the only thing keeping me going. Every single mission is exactly the same. A prime example of how _not to_ make an open world game. I bet MLE would love it! haha


----------



## mbyrnes

Finally finished Mafia III. Wow the bugs in that game are RIDICULOUS! It would crash out a few times a session, thankfully I never lost my progress. I enjoyed it, but I highly doubt I will play another in this series. The "game" of constantly getting kicked to the Xbox home screen was infuriating. As much as I would love to go back and complete everything, I just can't take the aggravation. 

I'll get back to The Last of Us and wrap that up. Much more enjoyable and frustration free!


----------



## raband

Finally found my subscribed (watched) threads

Ouch - my eyes are still bleeding from trying to log into Head-Fi thismorning


----------



## Change is Good (Apr 26, 2017)

Took me a while, too. Now I'm trying to figure out how to edit or bump my classified.

I blame Axel

Edit: Is there a new site FAQ page?


----------



## Mysticalication

Can anyone help me with headset for CS:GO ? I was thinking about Audio-Technica ATH-AD 900X or AKG Q701. I am looking for headset mainly for FPS gaming.


----------



## dakanao

So I've been getting into gaming again since yesterday, and I need a headphone around the $250 (either new or used) that has a natural sound, with excellent imaging and big soundstage. I want no treble harshness, I wouldn't mind trading a bit of sparkle for smoothness, they just need to have a natural timbre and great imaging/soundstage.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Napalmhardcore said:


> Perhaps it is because I listen at relatively low volume, but I find the significance of whether a headphone is open or closed back is overstated when it comes to their spaciousness/soundstage size. I'm guessing at higher listening volumes it becomes more significant as reflections become more of an issue and open backed headphones ability to let the soundwaves escape comes into play. Or perhaps I'm just weird lol.



I take your point although I think in some cases the difference can be subtle? The bigger issue for me with closed back with gaming is that I prefer to be able to hear what's going on around me (ie if the kids wake up) and I can't hear myself talk which is something I just don't like - sound leakage just isn't an issue for my usage.


----------



## Yethal

Where do I sign a petition to bring old Head-Fi back?


----------



## Evshrug

Well, yethal, you would have to petition Wikia, because they removed the whole huddler platform that Head-Fi was buit on, and the staff here built something so the community would continue on.

Its growing/moving pains, things will be fixed, some things are already better.


----------



## Yethal

Hopefully. If this was Skyrim my Attention Span skill would decrease everytime I come here. So many images and moving things.
I see You finally got the Sponsor badge Evs, I'm so proud!


----------



## Change is Good

I've seen my fair share of website overhauls. This is probably one of the worst. Not really a big deal, just a pain in the ars (especially in the classifieds). Still, it's probably the final nail in the coffin for me. This place has been giving off too many 'elitist' vibes in recent years.


----------



## Yethal

Change is Good said:


> I've seen my fair share of website overhauls. This is probably one of the worst. Not really a big deal, just a pain in the ars (especially in the classifieds). Still, it's probably the final nail in the coffin for me. This place has been giving off too many 'elitist' vibes in recent years.


If Head-Fi is elitist then what is 6Moons?


----------



## mbyrnes

I don't see how this is elitist. You are always going to have a portion of every population that believes the more you spend, the better it is. I find that to be completely untrue. Sure you should get better sound with better tech, but that doesn't always mean the music will sound better. Classic Rock, Punk Rock, Grunge, are a few of my favorite genres of music, and most of the albums were recorded poorly. A highly resolving system will sound much worse than a few hundred dollar setup.

I am all about finding low cost/high value gear. That is a far more exciting experience for me. The Monoprice M1060 is a fantastic headphone that I am loving the hell out of. With the Vegan pad swap, I'm under $400 total for a really fun and detailed headphone. They are more fun that the HE-X V2 for gaming and movies, and cost FAR less. Now the HE-X is a better headphone, but the M1060 is pretty close to it performance wise. I'll always own both, but they are my 2 favorite headphones at the moment.

I also just picked up a 2.5mm female connector to mod my Fostex TH-X00 Ebony. The stock cable is super strong and durable, but entirely too long and thick. I don't use them as much as I like because of the damn cable!!! I would love to use them walking around Philly, but can't in their current alignment.

Ignore the idiots who pound misleading information into your head, use common sense, and lookup some of the "Claims" that are made here about balanced being far superior, more power is better, etc. There are a lot of sane people here. Hope you can find some and enjoy coming back!


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm pretty elitist. My Ether Flow is amazing. All other headphones are crap. I mean, who in their right mind would own a budget-friendly SHP9500/BoomPro combo for gaming.

Oh... wait, I do...

Just because someone has a nice high-end headphone doesn't mean they no longer appreciate the more affordable options out there. An excellent $100 headphone can easily impress me more than an excellent $1,000+ headphone. But you know, we're elitist.


----------



## mbyrnes

My favorite forum was AVSforum. I used to be able to use my phone and computer very easily to navigate the site. They changed it and I barely ever use it now. Even now that I am looking at some 4K TVs, I just can't take the layout. I'll do my research elsewhere.

So far the mobile version of Head-Fi is a mess and I am not using it at all on my phone. I am about a 95% phone user for forums. I really hope they can fix it to make it easier to use. If not, I can see myself fading from here like I did AVS.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Yethal said:


> Hopefully. If this was Skyrim my Attention Span skill would decrease everytime I come here. So many images and moving things.
> I see You finally got the Sponsor badge Evs, I'm so proud!


Evshrug introduced me to this wild and woolly forum. He's a good guy.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

mbyrnes said:


> My favorite forum was AVSforum. I used to be able to use my phone and computer very easily to navigate the site. They changed it and I barely ever use it now. Even now that I am looking at some 4K TVs, I just can't take the layout. I'll do my research elsewhere.
> 
> So far the mobile version of Head-Fi is a mess and I am not using it at all on my phone. I am about a 95% phone user for forums. I really hope they can fix it to make it easier to use. If not, I can see myself fading from here like I did AVS.


Re: mobile site (and how it looks on my other iOS devices) versus desktop UI. My Safari browser on my phone & tablet chew the hell out of head-fi.org . Once I switched over to my desktops' Chrome browser, it was much easier to navigate. Ah well, I'll keep at it (as I enjoy this forum). I respect your viewpoint, mbyrnes.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

ElectronicTonic said:


> Horizon Zero Dawn is awesome.


Re: PS4 exclusive. As a Xbox1 user, I'm envious. It looks like a damn fine open world game.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

mrkingdomhearts said:


> What recent single player games you played that had good sound design?
> One that pops on the top of my head is the metro series.


As a newcomer to the forum, I agree with you. 2033 & First Light have dandy sound design. What are your thoughts about the Witcher3? wrt sound design...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Zyker said:


> Are you asking about PC or console?
> 
> On PC, I'm awful and just have my a900x connected to the Sound Blaster Z.  My mic is a Blue Yeti blackout connected via USB.
> 
> For console, I've got my PS4 connected to a Sound Blaster X7 (via optical and USB for mic).  My headphones for that are the Hifiman 400i with an attached ModMic.


Re: Sound Blaster X7. Here in Toronto, it's running for $500-700 CDN on amazon dot ca. I can't understand that price. Do you think the price will come down by 2018?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

mbyrnes said:


> Wow, unreal guys! Awesome work!
> 
> After all these years, I still use the first page a lot. It's one of the most useful information pages I've ever come across. I still tell people use it, as it's a Bible to me. Keeping it current is so incredibly useful!


New guys like me rely on it. Thanks, eh.


----------



## AxelCloris

Guys, we're working on the mobile version of the site, but this isn't the place for that discussion. The admins are all watching several threads and using those to gather feedback about the new site. Let's keep this one to gaming audio, please.


----------



## Moxx88

Does anyone own the Sony MDR Hw700ds and can compare it with some of the tested Headphones? Especially In terms of competitive gaming?


----------



## expontherise

I know this isn't necessarily headphone related, but headphone discussion can always occur as a result so I feel its fitting     Any Xbox One players want to add each other?   GT: GENxEXPLODE

Mostly a late-night gamer as I don't play until after my children go to bed.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

AxelCloris said:


> Guys, we're working on the mobile version of the site, but this isn't the place for that discussion. The admins are all watching several threads and using those to gather feedback about the new site. Let's keep this one to gaming audio, please.


10-4.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

While I understand cost is relative in audio-listening,_* I'm trying to get my head around the prices. Is it really a matter of supply & demand?  Or is the price of manufacturing chips increasing*_?
I'm enjoying my **used** Turtle Bay *DSS2*, attached to either PSB 4U or Sennheiser HD518 while I play games like the Witcher3 and Metro (both 2033 & FL).  When my "upgraditis" takes hold (or when my DSS2 kacks out _*[reliability an issue?*_]), I'll want to replace it.  

I went onto my amazon dot ca account and saw the following prices (CDN [$1 US = $0.73 as of Monday afternoon]) for DAC/amp devices (that generate their own surround-sound effect) that can plug into my XBox1 console's TOSlink port.

Astro Gaming MixAmp Pro @ $243. Creative Labs E5 @ $220 to $413 (?!).
Creative X-Fi is running at a more humble price of $90 (its input is USB, so I can't plug it into a XB1 and pipe out sound [happy to be wrong]).
I did a double-take with the Sound Blaster X7 (the pyramid?). $620 from Creative Labs. $730 from a 3rd party Amazon distributor?! *Uhh... why*?

I want to educate myself about what drives these prices, that appear to be significantly higher than what I see on the review (in the forum).  I've been lucky so far on Kijijii (our Toronto-version of eBay) and have bought good used gear. However, I suspect this is an anomaly. _* Do frugal head-fi'ers just wait for sales and jump on the deals?
Comments? Thoughts*_?


----------



## Malfunkt

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _*Do frugal head-fi'ers just wait for sales and jump on the deals?
> Comments? Thoughts*_?



If you are Canadian, yes, you have to scour for good deals. But really, Canuckaudiomart is pretty good. Even some of the dealers here once and while put on a sale. Looks like you have some good sets, and if they work for you and enjoy them, you'll save a lot of money avoiding upgrading. I try to keep a max expenditure on my sets, so if I want something, something needs to go.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Malfunkt said:


> If you are Canadian, yes, you have to scour for good deals. ... I try to keep a max expenditure on my sets, so if I want something, something needs to go.


_*Thanks for the suggested CDN site, Malfunkt*_. Yep, I also mess around with SCUBA equipment so I need to keep a lid on the spending (ex. Scubapro regulator fine [titanium set would require me to sell some gear]).

_*Question to all: *_is there any justification for the price on the Creative X7? Other than what the market can bear... some manufacturing & distribution issues? Or is the quality indeed good enough to justify the $600+ Canadian price tag... Comments?


----------



## Yethal

ScubaMan2017 said:


> _*Thanks for the suggested CDN site, Malfunkt*_. Yep, I also mess around with SCUBA equipment so I need to keep a lid on the spending (ex. Scubapro regulator fine [titanium set would require me to sell some gear]).
> 
> _*Question to all: *_is there any justification for the price on the Creative X7? Other than what the market can bear... some manufacturing & distribution issues? Or is the quality indeed good enough to justify the $600+ Canadian price tag... Comments?



Massdrop used to sell those for $300 American bundled with BT-W2 so it might be the maple syrup tax.


----------



## The Krell

Been watching a twitch streamer for over a year now,he only has a pair of earbuds for playing H1Z1 King of the kill and I want to buy him a headset through his amazon, is the Sennheiser GSP 350 worth getting?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## shuto77

Sennheiser headsets are usually good from what I've read. I know the Kingston Cloud 1 and 2 are both good options. They're based off a respected OEM's design who makes good cheap headphones (Superlux, perhaps?).


----------



## shuto77

@ScubaMan2017 - your best bet to is to post a wanted ad in the classifieds and see if any Headfiers (US or Canadian) want to sell theirs. If you're worried about the warranty, you only need the serial number and proof of purchase. IIRC, Creative isn't rigid about whether you're the original owner. But if anyone can correct me on that, go ahead.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


>



Nor it you.



Spoiler


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Mad Lust Envy said:


>


_*It's still one of my favourite quotes from the flick*_. Cheers, eh.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

The Krell said:


> Been watching a twitch streamer for over a year now,he only has a pair of earbuds for playing H1Z1 King of the kill and I want to buy him a headset through his amazon, is the Sennheiser GSP 350 worth getting?


That's generous, _The Krell_. The Wirecutter did a section on mid-range to high-end earbuds. Can it help you? http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-200-in-ear-headphones/
The site (which aggregates different reviews & attempt their own assessments) claimed the _B&O PLAY by Bang & Olufsen Beoplay H3_ was a fantastic ~$200 pair. Scroll through the list to see whether the GSP350 are there or not.  Good luck, eh.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Damn!_* I can see why some forum members do NOT like simulated surround sound effects in their headphones*_ (while playing on an XBox1). I was playing Metro First Light in the catacombs and the beasties' growls were coming from the walls, the floors, and the ceilings.  My Turtle Beach DSS2 unit indeed does its magic and attempts to create quadraphonic (?) sound; however, the growls can be coming from odd, nonsensical directions.
It's still a dandy game, first-timer DAC/amp, and can set up.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

shuto77 said:


> @ScubaMan2017 - your best bet to is to post a wanted ad in the classifieds and see if any Headfiers (US or Canadian) want to sell theirs. If you're worried about the warranty, you only need the serial number and proof of purchase. IIRC, Creative isn't rigid about whether you're the original owner. But if anyone can correct me on that, go ahead.


Interesting idea shuto77 . When I'm ready to upgrade, I might just try that. I'll download the manual and take a look at the fine print.  Your reply made me think of other issues about transferring consumer protection (in used gear).  I was looking at a YouTube video about removing (and replacing) warranty stickers and how such consumer protection might NOT be voided.


----------



## expontherise

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Damn!_* I can see why some forum members do NOT like simulated surround sound effects in their headphones*_ (while playing on an XBox1). I was playing Metro First Light in the catacombs and the beasties' growls were coming from the walls, the floors, and the ceilings.  My Turtle Beach DSS2 unit indeed does its magic and attempts to create quadraphonic (?) sound; however, the growls can be coming from odd, nonsensical directions.
> It's still a dandy game, first-timer DAC/amp, and can set up.



I prefer not to simulate surround sound externally on my xbox.. the game's actually try.. and do fairly well at doing this from the source itself. Your DSS2 is probably sounding wonky because the game's surround simulation is effecting the dss2 from working properly?  This is a guess, but I feel like proper amping is way more effective than surround simulation.


----------



## Sam21

been playing CSGO/Insurgency/TF2 on my dell g-sync monitor.....I am just amazed how screen tearing and stuttering are gone!!! definitely better than a 4k TV....much much better...The latency is amazingly low as well....I am getting 4-7 kills per round...just amazing...not a gimmick...


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Sam21 said:


> been playing CSGO/Insurgency/TF2 on my dell g-sync monitor.....I am just amazed how screen tearing and stuttering are gone!!! definitely better than a 4k TV....much much better...The latency is amazingly low as well....I am getting 4-7 kills per round...just amazing...not a gimmick...



Nice! Out of my league. BTW, I saw this on Youtube (8K gaming monitor [4 coordinated monitors]). Anyway, fyi...


----------



## Sam21

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Nice! Out of my league. BTW, I saw this on Youtube (8K gaming monitor [4 coordinated monitors]). Anyway, fyi...




lawl...I hate monitor spanning....buy a large screen monitor/TV..there are plenty of ultra wide curved monitors these days...I used to game on my 1080p Samsung TV.....the picture is beautiful but the latency is too high...even when it is set to gaming mode...and yeah...It gave me alot of stuttering....2 kills per round in CSGO vs 5-7 is a lot of improvement...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 5, 2017)

How dare you, Axel. HOW DARE YOU.

Any wireless KSC75s yet? 

My KSC75's plug keeps sliding off my phone's input. It is incredibly aggravating. I guess it's time for yet another Sportapro. Koss should be sending me stuff for a lifetime, out of all the money they make from me. ;__;


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> How dare you, Axel. HOW DARE YOU.
> 
> Any wireless KSC75s yet?
> 
> My KSC75's plug keeps sliding off my phone's input. It is incredibly aggravating. I guess it's time for yet another Sportapro. Koss should be sending me stuff for a lifetime, out of all the money they make from me. ;__;


Maybe you can, like, mail in 5 at once for the bundled shipping cost?


----------



## The Krell

ScubaMan2017 said:


> That's generous, _The Krell_. The Wirecutter did a section on mid-range to high-end earbuds. Can it help you? http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-200-in-ear-headphones/
> The site (which aggregates different reviews & attempt their own assessments) claimed the _B&O PLAY by Bang & Olufsen Beoplay H3_ was a fantastic ~$200 pair. Scroll through the list to see whether the GSP350 are there or not.  Good luck, eh.


sorry I only seen this now, I am going to get him a pair of sennheiser pc300 g4me because over the head mess his hair up too much..you feel more part of the stream when he's wearing something you bought him!


----------



## xH4wK (May 6, 2017)

Sooo guys.. has somebody tested the virtual surround lately on BlasterX G5 ?
I purchased G5 because I have HD558 with modmic 4 and onboard is noisy at input and does not sound so great (cheap H110 motherboard)

After I read entire thread about it on this forums.. idk whether i should return it ?
What are the alternatives in this price range with DAC/ADC and VSS ?

Also what about windows spatial sound and Dolby atmos for headphones ?
Would it make sense to keep G5 and just use some software VSS ?

Edit: I tested windows spatial - dolby atmos, it's complete crap in game in comparison to SBX on my G5.
I find it actually useful to use surround on G5 in PUBG, directions are perfectly clear with 67-100%
Anybody else has experience ?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

xH4wK said:


> Sooo guys.. has somebody tested the virtual surround lately on BlasterX G5 ?
> I purchased G5 because I have HD558 with modmic 4 and onboard is noisy at input and does not sound so great (cheap H110 motherboard)
> 
> ....chop...



Hi. You checked this review out? The reviewer went DEEP into the G5's inner workings...
https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/creative-labs-sound-blasterx-g5.21511/


----------



## ScubaMan2017 (May 6, 2017)

xH4wK said:


> .....snip...
> What are the alternatives in this price range with DAC/ADC and VSS ? ...snip....



Eventually, I picked up a used Turtle Beach DSS2 from our version of eBay for $40 CDN. They're discontinued; however, there should be many still floating around. Please consider it! This little black plastic job is built like a tank, has an TOSlink input & is powered by a USB cable (in my case to my console... in your case you should be able to plug it into your PC & access it via the OS's control panel).
 It has enough oomph to power my PSB2 4U and Sennheiser HD518 cans (with a 6ft extension cable added no less). I use it on my XBox1 so that I don't interfere my spouse.  The simulated surround sound is fine for me (and I can't detect any hiss as compared from my TV audio jack or the stereo-snap-on-device-to-the-controller [whoot whoot]).

When their price comes down, I'll replace it with that odd triangle-shaped box from Creative (stupidly overpriced [>$600] here in Ontario, Canada).  Good luck, xH4wK.


----------



## DuckWave87

Hey, is AD700x still the best choice for comp gaming in that price range?


----------



## xH4wK (May 6, 2017)

ScubaMan2017 said:


> Hi. You checked this review out? The reviewer went DEEP into the G5's inner workings...
> https://www.head-fi.org/f/showcase/creative-labs-sound-blasterx-g5.21511/


Yep I saw it, it does not mention VSS/SBX (or BXAE) at all ?
I am still unsure whether I should return G5 and get something like Omni ?
I would say omni has terrible output impedance as creative is not even mentioning it anywhere... so that would be a huge downgrade ?
All I want to know whether the virtual surround on G5 is reall so much worse that I better return it ?
Also.... could it be that simply SBX on old devices was running on high output impedance cards and therefore it sounded overall different than on G5 because G5 has low output impedance ? idk..
Also on old sbx you needed 33 surround now on g5 you need 67.. it is different but is it really worse as of positioning ?

Edit: Would it make sense to go for SB Omni surround ? Based on this database, https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/wiki/tech/output_impedance_database
it has output impedance of 15.. compared to g5 2.2 it sucks I know
Would that impedance work fine for HD558s ?


----------



## ScubaMan2017

xH4wK said:


> Yep I saw it, it does not mention VSS/SBX (or BXAE) at all ?
> I am still unsure whether I should return G5 and get something like Omni ?
> I would say omni has terrible output impedance as creative is not even mentioning it anywhere... so that would be a huge downgrade ?
> All I want to know whether the virtual surround on G5 is reall so much worse that I better return it ?
> ...


_*Pssst. Can an old salt (or an old sweat) chime in? This is beyond my pay-grade, as it were*_.


----------



## xH4wK

Did somebody test that new windows creators update feature.. spatial audio and Dolby Atmos for Headphones ?


----------



## protoss

I game with HD800 ! lol... its a little extreme but owell. Nothings better


----------



## Overkill Red

Has anyone tried a HD800 with the Astro MixAmp 2013? How's the hiss?
I'm moving to a studio apartment in a few months and wanted to run the HD800 as well as a decent microphone out of the MixAmp for FPS gaming. 
It looks simple enough - HD800 into one side of a splitter and Mic into the other?
Cheers!


----------



## Azurik

The mixamp would not drive the HD800 properly. Yes, it would go decently loud but you would lose a lot of quality making the 800 sound like any other "cheaper" can. You can always double amp with something portable like a fiio a12 to improve it.


----------



## AxelCloris

protoss said:


> I game with HD800 ! lol... its a little extreme but owell. Nothings better



I wouldn't say that it's extreme unless you're only using them for gaming and nothing else. I game with the Ether Flow because it's the best headphone I already own, it just also happens to be damned good for gaming. If you already have the HD 800, why not use them?


----------



## protoss

AxelCloris said:


> I wouldn't say that it's extreme unless you're only using them for gaming and nothing else. I game with the Ether Flow because it's the best headphone I already own, it just also happens to be damned good for gaming. If you already have the HD 800, why not use them?



well. I have 2 HD800 lol. 1 for gaming and the other for critical listening. Also have Ether C Flow. The C Flows is needed for loud environments.


----------



## xH4wK

Regarding discussion about BlasterX G5 and BXAE channel separation.
I did a testing using https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html
On both 5.1 and 7.1 surround settings with SBX surround at 67%
Channel separation is amazing, I see (and hear) absolutely no issues at all.
I do not personally see what was the fuss about.


----------



## GMcDougal

I need some recommendations. I have a budget of $120 and will use these headphones for mostly gaming on the pc. They will be pushed by a soundblaster z. The games I mostly play are fps and racing. Thanks.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-150-over-ear-headphones/


GMcDougal said:


> I need some recommendations. I have a budget of $120 and will use these headphones for mostly gaming on the pc. They will be pushed by a soundblaster z. The games I mostly play are fps and racing. Thanks.



If you like sites that collect different reviews and compile them (like Rotten Tomatoes), and then add their own opinions...
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-150-over-ear-headphones/
Their site also reviewed cans with microphones. Good luck, eh.


----------



## xH4wK

ScubaMan2017 said:


> http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-150-over-ear-headphones/
> 
> If you like sites that collect different reviews and compile them (like Rotten Tomatoes), and then add their own opinions...
> http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-150-over-ear-headphones/
> Their site also reviewed cans with microphones. Good luck, eh.


That is crap review. They did not even test sennheiser headphones HD5xx series (which are best for gaming) just HD280 and HD380.


----------



## Overkill Red

Azurik said:


> The mixamp would not drive the HD800 properly. Yes, it would go decently loud but you would lose a lot of quality making the 800 sound like any other "cheaper" can. You can always double amp with something portable like a fiio a12 to improve it.



Cheers! Yeah I'm definitely going to be double amping, looking to get a totl transportable eventually anyway. 

Will share once the setup is complete in a few months!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

xH4wK said:


> That is crap review. They did not even test sennheiser headphones HD5xx series (which are best for gaming) just HD280 and HD380.


Heh. You noticed that, eh. I was trying to be diplomatic; however, I now think you're right, xH4wK. I used that site for my very first $250-300 range headphones (I had some beer money & wanted something that would allow me to console-game in peace). After 2 exchanges (one for faulty earphone connections & another for a shorted out cable)... this is what my PSB M4U headphones look like after 2 years of daily use...



Spoiler: Yeesh... only click if you have a strong aural stomach!









I know that my head's big, and that I read about the snug fit; however, I didn't realize plastic became so brittle (with inside use). Never again!
Still, good luck eh.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Overkill Red said:


> ...snip... double amping,....snip...


That's a new term for me. I'll troll around the site & figure out what you're talking about. Yes, Overkill Red, please post your findings eh.


----------



## cskippy

FYI, double amping is exactly as it sounds.  You're taking the headphone output from one amp, such as the MIxamp, and then running it into the line in on another amp that is used with your headphones.  The problem is the gain settings and sometimes output impedance used by the first amp can introduce noise into the signal that is then amplified by the second amp.  It is not ideal, but sometimes is necessary such as the case of the Mixamp and hard to drive headphones.


----------



## Azurik

It should work as long as you keep the mixamp around 75% volume and adjust the rest on the amp


----------



## pervysage

Azurik said:


> It should work as long as you keep the mixamp around 75% volume and adjust the rest on the amp



What is the reason for keeping Mixamp at 75%? (as opposed to 100%). 

I run my Mixamp at 100%. It has some hiss if I turn up my amp loud enough. But at normal listening levels it's not very audible.


----------



## Azurik

pervysage said:


> What is the reason for keeping Mixamp at 75%? (as opposed to 100%).
> 
> I run my Mixamp at 100%. It has some hiss if I turn up my amp loud enough. But at normal listening levels it's not very audible.



I usually keep things around that mark to prevent distortion and clipping when double amping. The mixamp is quite weak (32ohm I believe) and leaving it on full blast might cause some issues.


----------



## overhaze

Has anyone any experience with the HyperX Cloud Revolver? I've never heard them myself but from what I have read their sound signature is basically the Takstar pro 80s (HyperX Clouds) with the base distortion fixed and 30ohm impedance.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i need a virtual surround device, is there anything good on the market that is not on the first page? I was thinking of going for the mixamp, budget is around that, but i think that they might be releasing a new version soon, the last a40's model came out on august of 2015 i think...


----------



## xH4wK (May 12, 2017)

I have tested both G5 and E5

E5 uses SBX pro and G5 uses BlasterX Acoustic Engine, based on my testing it is just different name for both.. they use same HW and therefore surround sounds the same, literally absolutely the same. Creative just used different software name it seems. (And I SUSPECT that x7 is the very same surround, as based on videos and screenshots it has the same slider and pointer at 67% as E5.)

E5 has Crystal voice function but if you turn it off you get microphone noise (Antlion ModMic 4)
G5 does not have this function in software but it seems enabled by default, there is no mic noise whatsoever, so microphone noise suppression seems to be on by default and I did not find a way on how to turn it off.

Basically after all, the ONLY real difference between E5 and G5 is battery and bluetooth support in E5 and the price is NOT worth it for a PC gamer.
Also E5 USB is not acting like a HUB for PC so you cannot connect for example wireless transmitted for your mouse in to this port (I have my g403 wireless transmitter in my G5 and it works awesome)

The surround itself seem to be working fine at 67% and I personally think it is personal preference whether you like old SBX or new SBX/BXAE.
Also.. old SBX devices all have high output impedance and only G5/E5 have 2.2 ohm which is great for sensitive headphones like HD558/HD598
For comparison, SB omni has 15 ohm OI, SB Z has 22 ohm OI, for best headphone performance you need to have lower OI than impedance of your headphones so HD558/HD598 work flawless on 6.5ohm and less output impedance.

To me personally, playing Playerunknown's Battlegrounds.. G5 is very accurate with 7.1 surround sound and with EQ changes to lower highs a bit (basically change eq to my preference and headphones signature) I have absolutely no issues with it. I will keep it and return the E5 tommorow.


----------



## mbyrnes

Just buy an X7 and be done with it. The Mixamp SUCKS for music, any mode, doesn't matter. To properly amp the headphones you may use, you're looking at Schiit Magni 2 or similar. That isn't cheap.

X7 can be found for $299, and is so much better with tons of new options.

You can feed a separate DAC with SBX from the X7. You can feed any amp you want with RCA cables, with SBX. the included amp is VERY good. Op amp swaps can also really improve every aspect of it. 

You can't beat the X7 as a great and worthwhile gaming/movies surround machine. With EQ, you can dial in any headphone how you like!

I'm hoping for an updated version at some point. Until then, X7 is perfect.


----------



## Yethal

Now that we're on the subject, what happened to the X7 thread? I can't find it.


----------



## Azurik

Yethal said:


> Now that we're on the subject, what happened to the X7 thread? I can't find it.


https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...7-detailed-review-impressions.756102/page-171


----------



## xH4wK (May 13, 2017)

I suppose x7 has the very same virtual surround as e5 and g5 so why the hell somebody playing with headphones only would buy an x7 over g5.. for gaming.


----------



## Yethal

Azurik said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...7-detailed-review-impressions.756102/page-171


Thanks, for some reason the thread disappeard from my subscription list



xH4wK said:


> I suppose x7 has the very same virtual surround as e5 and g5 so why the hell somebody playing with headphones only would buy an x7 over g5.. for gaming.


According to several people here, it's not the same. The G5 sounds distinctively different from the E5 and X7. Also, X7 has better dac/amp section and is able to drive balanced headphones (via speaker outs).


----------



## xH4wK (May 13, 2017)

Dude
I had both e5 and g5 tested 2 days ago
Surround is *exactly* the same.
I even recorded (using "what you hear") sound files from 5.1 and 7.1 test files that I directly compared by playing them on direct mode with sbx disabled
*No difference at all.*
I returned e5 yesterday.. keeping g5
Bxae used by g5 is just different name to sbx pro used by e5
*Might be* that x7 uses old sbx because it supports 5.1 virtual surround only but considering the software looks almost exactly the same to e5 (it even suggests using 67% surround) I'd say that all three use the very same virtual surround processing (they also use the same DSP, and also headphone amp but that should not be related I guess)

Could be that people got confused and triggered placebo effect that g5 is bad.. but in direct test they are the same.


----------



## Yethal

xH4wK said:


> Dude
> I had both e5 and g5 tested 2 days ago
> Surround is *exactly* the same.
> I even recorded sound files from 5.1 tests files that I directly compared.
> ...


I meant the surround isn't the same between the G5 and X7. I'll have to search the G5 thread for the posts mentioning that but I do remember other people mentioning the G5 surround was way worse than the X7.
Also, no difference between 5.1 and 7.1 as far as audio virtualization is concerned.


----------



## pewfish (May 15, 2017)

Hi guys, does anyone have any experience with wireless solutions? I've got an HD598 and DT1770 (recommendation from another user, was brilliant during my time owning it) that I'm selling and I'm hoping to get a pair that I can use with my PC and PS4 and ideally have surround available for the latter also.

I know that the wired options I had are superior but I'm tired of the wires and have my mind set on wireless.

I have a few ones in mind and I'm prioritising something less "gamey" but if that can't be avoided then it's not the end of the world.

I'm considering these at the moment and my max budget would be around €500 or £400
- LucidSound LS40
- Logitech G533
- Steelseries Siberia 800/840


----------



## illram

Woah, new forum! I'm scared and confused....

Anyway, does anyone here have experience with the HD800 and the HE-400i? For purely surround purposes, does the huge cost premium of the HD800 have any justification in the surround implementation over the 400i? I realize for other audio purposes they are great but I'm talking strictly surround imaging. As crazy as that sounds....


----------



## cskippy

While not directly answering your question,  I find that planars resolve 3D positioning, especially with surround sound, far better than dynamics.  

The in your head or 3 blob imaging of planars works very well when surround sound processing is used since DSP pushes the audio away from you.  I find that while dynamic headphones give a more realistic soundstage with stereo content, the added depth of 3D processing makes sounds seem too distant.


----------



## illram (May 15, 2017)

cskippy said:


> While not directly answering your question,  I find that planars resolve 3D positioning, especially with surround sound, far better than dynamics.
> 
> The in your head or 3 blob imaging of planars works very well when surround sound processing is used since DSP pushes the audio away from you.  I find that while dynamic headphones give a more realistic soundstage with stereo content, the added depth of 3D processing makes sounds seem too distant.



Thanks, interesting perspective re: planars generally being better specifically for surround. Sort of matches my personal bias in preferring the 400i in games where imaging is important over all the others I own (AKG 7XX, DT770Pro, Hd598, V Moda M100). I guess I'm sort of wondering if the grass is a lot greener somewhere else. It's been like 6 months since I made a frivolous headphone purchase so I'm getting twitchy...


----------



## Sam21

cskippy said:


> While not directly answering your question,  I find that planars resolve 3D positioning, especially with surround sound, far better than dynamics.
> 
> The in your head or 3 blob imaging of planars works very well when surround sound processing is used since DSP pushes the audio away from you.  I find that while dynamic headphones give a more realistic soundstage with stereo content, the added depth of 3D processing makes sounds seem too distant.



I agree with this 100% ... my HE400 has a 3D like soundstage with a lot of depth...While My K702 has a wide soundstage...it has no to little depth...I would use my HE400 for immersive fps gaming hands down...it is a bit uncomfy though...on the heavy side...

To me comfort matters the most..Ok, You have the best sounding headphone, but if you cannot keep it on your head for more than 1 hour because of clamp, heaviness , ears getting hot or annoying headbands...I think it is not an ideal headphone...


----------



## cskippy

illram said:


> Thanks, interesting perspective re: planars generally being better specifically for surround. Sort of matches my personal bias in preferring the 400i in games where imaging is important over all the others I own (AKG 7XX, DT770Pro, Hd598, V Moda M100). I guess I'm sort of wondering if the grass is a lot greener somewhere else. It's been like 6 months since I made a frivolous headphone purchase so I'm getting twitchy...


Not to dissuade you from getting another headphone, but what are you using as a DAC and amp?  Those can make a pretty big difference for everything you listen to.


----------



## xH4wK

I'd say, after my testing, that surround sound is 1. personal preference 2. related to headphones soundstage and performance.

When I listen to GSX test videos with apple earpods I am really immersed but when I listen to very same video with HD558 it sounds terrible.

Personally, for now I stick with stereo.


----------



## illram

cskippy said:


> Not to dissuade you from getting another headphone, but what are you using as a DAC and amp?  Those can make a pretty big difference for everything you listen to.



Creative X7. I've pondered upgrading the OP-amps. But otherwise for strictly surround processing, I'm not sure there is an alternative that is a hugely discernible upgrade that is compatible with both consoles and PC?

With the new windows surround, or with something like Razer's virtual surround, I suppose I could upgrade my DAC/AMP and use virtual surround...but I'd still need a console solution as I use both. X7 seems to be the best solution for that currently.


----------



## cskippy

I think you're correct.  I used to use the Mixamp but the noise level and overall quality wasn't up to my standards.  I recently bought a Soundblaster Z and it sounds far better than Dolby, but unfortunately, Xbox One doesn't output regular 5.1 through optical so it won't work with the Soundblaster Z.  Virtual options are okay, but I far prefer SBX over Razer virtual surround.  I haven't been able to get windows surround to work but am curious about it.


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Creative X7. I've pondered upgrading the OP-amps. But otherwise for strictly surround processing, I'm not sure there is an alternative that is a hugely discernible upgrade that is compatible with both consoles and PC?
> 
> With the new windows surround, or with something like Razer's virtual surround, I suppose I could upgrade my DAC/AMP and use virtual surround...but I'd still need a console solution as I use both. X7 seems to be the best solution for that currently.


There's also the Smyth Realizer A16 whis is both pc and console compatible.
Also, Razer Surround is awful.


----------



## illram

Oooo yeah the Realizer. I am dying to try one. Does anyone here have one yet? 

The one thing that kept me from jumping on that kickstarter was I have no access to a surround system to calibrate it with. Is there a way to do that without a studio or 7.1 speaker setup of your own?


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Oooo yeah the Realizer. I am dying to try one. Does anyone here have one yet?
> 
> The one thing that kept me from jumping on that kickstarter was I have no access to a surround system to calibrate it with. Is there a way to do that without a studio or 7.1 speaker setup of your own?


You can download other people's calibrations and upload them to Your Realizer. @Evshrug You received the A16 yet?


----------



## Evshrug

Not yet, looks like the kickstarter was delayed and first shipments will be like August.

However, I'm flying to Munich tomorrow for the High End Show (and my face/skin is totally stressing out!) to meet the Sennheiser team (will post adventures on Twitter! @Evshrug). I'm sorely tempted to book another Realiser demo, even though I had one in February haha.


----------



## Gech

Superlux HD668B (+a mic) vs Cloud 2 vs Sennheiser GSP 300 for competitive gaming(CS GO)
 I would want ath-ad700 but they cost 200 euro in europe. Or maybe an other headphone


----------



## xH4wK

Cheapest and probably best bang for your buck would be the cloud II I guess.


----------



## Yethal

Gech said:


> Superlux HD668B (+a mic) vs Cloud 2 vs Sennheiser GSP 300 for competitive gaming(CS GO)
> I would want ath-ad700 but they cost 200 euro in europe. Or maybe an other headphone


When given a choice between brand new mediocre gear and used awesome gear always go for the latter one.


----------



## Rompe

Gech said:


> Superlux HD668B (+a mic) vs Cloud 2 vs Sennheiser GSP 300 for competitive gaming(CS GO)
> I would want ath-ad700 but they cost 200 euro in europe. Or maybe an other headphone


If you have the power (i.e. enough amp) AKG K701/K702 or even K612 could be good alternatives to ATH-AD700x and are a bit cheaper in Europe.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I'm stuck - want a new set of Headphones but stuck between 3 options:-

Playing on PS4, using a Creative G5 for mainly FPS games (BF1, Destiny in the main).  Currently using Superlux HD681 Evo with a VModa Boom via an adaptor.

Now looking at Sennheiser 598se (with an adaptor), AKG K701/712 (I have a mini XLR to 3.5mm adaptor already for the mic) and Fidelio X2 (worried they may be a bit focused on the bass for my liking).

Would like any headphones to be decent with music listening also when not gaming.

Cheers in advance.


----------



## xH4wK

558 with foam mod maybe


----------



## iAudio365

Hi Guys,

Wondering if any of you can help me, up until recently Dolby Atmos for my headphones was working, now all of a sudden it no longer works.

For some reason it just stopped, I go through the setup and every time it takes me the spatial little pop window to select Dolby Atmos I click it and it just minimizes that window and will not select Dolby Atmos or do anything. I can use windows sonic 7.1 in the spatial settings no issues but can not at all activate dolby atmos.

I use  Realtek High Definition Audio via the Asus Supreme FX sound card that's built into my motherboard via S/PDIF (audio optical cable) connected directly to my PC from a chord mojo that is connected into a Schiit Jotunheim for my amp (if any of this info even matters I don't know)

I use windows 10 pro 64bit as well, and I just don't get it as it was working, now it will not work at all I select the drop down and again it just minimizes the spatial options window and will not let me continue with the set up process at all. 

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## cskippy

It's a 15 day trial unless you buy it, so it might have run out?


----------



## iAudio365

cskippy said:


> It's a 15 day trial unless you buy it, so it might have run out?



No it's definitely not that at all, the option to buy it no longer exists at all.


----------



## Garzhad (May 24, 2017)

Okay so im reading the skull candy plyr1 review and see that it encodes dolby surround Itself, through the base and headphones, right? Does this mean that, if for example, you pair this with the Soundblaster Z, you can more or less switch between using SBX Studio or Dolby Headphone just by turning one or the other off?
That would be kinda neat in its own way I guess. Probably real good for people that want to compare the two on otherwise identical equipment.

Great guide by the way: i like how Mad Lust rates things, more down to earth gamer style as opposed to audio-elitist like you get from other review sites. Fun v. Competition is a pretty informative metric in its own right, and the focus on virtual 7.1 surround is exactly what im looking for.

It's also really helped me narrow down HP choices; i'm looking for a good all-rounder considering ill be using it for game/movies/music with virtual 7.1 surround. Music genres tend towards rock/metal/industrial/EBM and epic orchestrals.
Debating between the Creative Aurvana($65), HD598 SE($157), PC360($123), Fidelio X2($232), DT 990($148) and K612 Pro($115) for my desktop.

Will probably get the Koss KSC75($16) for mobile use with my ZTE Axon 7 phone(I hate IEM's).

Anyone know if any of the above headphones would suit my needs better than the others?


----------



## Garzhad

Also, anyone had the opportunity to mess with any of the surround sound headphones here?
http://www.soundencore.com/the-best-surround-sound-headphones-2017/
They have dolby surround built into them, dont necessarily need a mixamp or whatever to provide it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

xH4wK said:


> 558 with foam mod maybe



Thanks - even those are getting hard to come by here - I've gone for some AKG Refurbed K702s now for £90 ish - should have them tomorrow


----------



## HiCZoK (May 25, 2017)

What is good enjoyable headphone similar to porta pro? maybe up to 100$
It can have more bass but mostly similar in comfort. Could be closed

Also, ksc75 or porta pro for sp gaming ?


edit: And most important question - I am a big fan of porta pro (all I write about recently).
and I have fiio e10k. If I wanted to get into pc gaming audio and virtual sound, what is the best way to go about it? Internal or some external card ?
would prefer external liko fiio, because I can easily plug headphones below monitor


----------



## Jacobh

iAudio365 said:


> No it's definitely not that at all, the option to buy it no longer exists at all.



I have this same issue.  If you look at the app history, they disabled the purchase option because it was causing problems for people who had the trial installed.  One of the updates said they fixed this, but I am on the latest version and it's still disabled for me.  I thought it did a decent job, but I plan on purchasing a hardware based solution for VSS.


----------



## overhaze (May 26, 2017)

Has there ever been any consensus on what the "best" headphones for gaming are? Or at least what are best at their various price points?


----------



## mbyrnes

overhaze said:


> Has there ever been any consensus on what the "best" headphones for gaming are? Or at least what are best at their various price points?



I think it is user dependent. Single player I strongly prefer immersion, so bass heavy headphones are my go to. 

Online I want less bass so I can hear footsteps and other key audio clues. 

If they're only used for gaming or also music can matter as well. Everyone hears things differently and what you prefer may be drastically different than another user. 

Personally I use my HE-X V2 for online with their great soundstage and bass when needed. I use the M1060 or TH-X00 Ebony for single player because they're more immersive. 

Cheaper options, I prefer the AKG K702 Annies for online (soundstage), and Beyerdynamic DT990 for immersion (not bad online headphones either). I do not like either of these for music though, though some people really do. 

I've found I prefer Planar headphones overall through the years, and typically listen to those. The TH-X00 are something special for a Dynamic driver. YMMV.


----------



## Garzhad

mbyrnes said:


> I think it is user dependent. Single player I strongly prefer immersion, so bass heavy headphones are my go to.
> 
> Online I want less bass so I can hear footsteps and other key audio clues.
> 
> ...


So you'd say the DT990's are good all-rounders for the most part? I'm basically on the lookout for a set of 'cans in the sub-$200 range that are good jack of all trades types, since I kinda intend to use them for, well, everything. A blend of 'fun' and 'competitive' by mad lusts metrics, thats immersive and fun without drowning out subtle cues much. I don't want to sacrifice too much bass and warmth just to hear someones footsteps from 900 feet away with psychic precision, but I still wanna be able to hear things coming from a good distance off. Only types I really like are over ear open back as well.

I see you have the 250ohm Dt990's as well; any Actually difference between that and the 32ohm ones(just assuming you checked both and grabbed the 250's) or as MLE put it there's really not much of a difference?


----------



## mbyrnes

Garzhad said:


> So you'd say the DT990's are good all-rounders for the most part? I'm basically on the lookout for a set of 'cans in the sub-$200 range that are good jack of all trades types, since I kinda intend to use them for, well, everything. A blend of 'fun' and 'competitive' by mad lusts metrics, thats immersive and fun without drowning out subtle cues much. I don't want to sacrifice too much bass and warmth just to hear someones footsteps from 900 feet away with psychic precision, but I still wanna be able to hear things coming from a good distance off. Only types I really like are over ear open back as well.
> 
> I see you have the 250ohm Dt990's as well; any Actually difference between that and the 32ohm ones(just assuming you checked both and grabbed the 250's) or as MLE put it there's really not much of a difference?



MLE describes the DT990 very similarly to how I hear them. They are really good for gaming, and don't give up much for competitive MP. The hard V shape can make music listening tough if you're sensitive to aggressive highs. I honestly don't mind them for music, but I think I'm in the minority there. 

Differences between the 80, 250, 600 ohm I think MLE summed up very well. Differences, but very subtle. I only chose the 250 because it came in ALL black. No other reason. 

Actually you may want to look into the Sennheiser/Massdrop PC37X. I still haven't gotten much head time with them, but at $119 with mic, they're a screaming good deal. Good bass, soundstage, and do equally well with gaming and music. Don't know if you need a mic. It isn't detachable, but if they don't leave the house that shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## overhaze

mbyrnes said:


> I think it is user dependent. Single player I strongly prefer immersion, so bass heavy headphones are my go to.
> 
> Online I want less bass so I can hear footsteps and other key audio clues.
> 
> ...




Do Fostex have a more internationally friendly equivalent of the TH-X00? I've thought about joining a drop but once you figure in shipping and import tax they are getting up into rarefied air.


----------



## mbyrnes

overhaze said:


> Do Fostex have a more internationally friendly equivalent of the TH-X00? I've thought about joining a drop but once you figure in shipping and import tax they are getting up into rarefied air.



Look into the Fostex TH-610 or E-Mu Teak. The Massdrop version kills people out of the US. E-Mu I believe ship from Singapore, and have detachable cables. They're $50 more than the TH-X00 (on Massdrop), but removable cables are definitely worth that much. The Fostex TH610 is sold worldwide and comparable to the TH-X00. You can Google Fostex Variants and find plenty of info that describe the differences between them. Innerfidelity did a comparison I know of offhand. There are threads here from a few people. 

I modified my TH-X00 Ebony for detachable cables, which involves modifying the wooden cup, the wire cut through hole, the driver plastic housing ring, and soldering. This is not a task for people without proper tools or problem solving ability on the fly. You can easily screw this up. I went with 2.5mm female adapters so I could use my HE-X V2 cables. I plan to use my TH-X00 on the go so a detachable cable was a must for me. 

Emu has a thread here and Chan is the owner. They are based in Singapore so that may or may not help. I would try emailing him directly. 

You could also look in the classifieds here, and maybe someone in your country is selling them used. Good luck, import taxes and shipping to certain countries is unreal expensive, I couldn't imagine.


----------



## Garzhad (May 30, 2017)

mbyrnes said:


> MLE describes the DT990 very similarly to how I hear them. They are really good for gaming, and don't give up much for competitive MP. The hard V shape can make music listening tough if you're sensitive to aggressive highs. I honestly don't mind them for music, but I think I'm in the minority there.
> 
> Differences between the 80, 250, 600 ohm I think MLE summed up very well. Differences, but very subtle. I only chose the 250 because it came in ALL black. No other reason.
> 
> Actually you may want to look into the Sennheiser/Massdrop PC37X. I still haven't gotten much head time with them, but at $119 with mic, they're a screaming good deal. Good bass, soundstage, and do equally well with gaming and music. Don't know if you need a mic. It isn't detachable, but if they don't leave the house that shouldn't be an issue.


Ahh. For me, as long as its black or a mix of black and grey i'm good. I generally prefer blacks and greys, so all the DT990's would fit me. Don't necessarily NEED a mic, but could come in handy, but since you can get cheap mics seperate its not really an option that makes or breaks something for me.
Far as music goes i'm mostly hard rock/metal/industrial/ebm/epic and quite like screaming guitars and violins sooo that might not be a problem for me.

How do the PC37x's compare to the DT990? ATM the 990's are $148 compared to $119. Are they as clampy as other Sennheisers? MLE mentioned some of their phones were waay too clampy, like a bear trap on your head lol. A version of the K7XX Annies are on mass drop for 69% off($200, or the price of a pair of normal k702s on amazon) as well; that is a maaasive discount. How do those compare to the other two? https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-akg-k7xx-red-edition
TBH, I only found massdrop like a few days ago and im starting to like what I see, Amazon has good sales and prices for the vast majority of things but something like 69% is virtually unheard of, especially on items that are $650+ MSRP

Might be worth mentioning too that, unlike MLE, i'd be using these with SBX Studio Surroud, not Dolby, using either a SoundBlasterX G5/E5 or a ZxR soundcard; still debating on which to get.

Funny thing ive noticed on sites with articles on 'the best surround head sets', they're almost all closed back. IME open back almost always has significantly better sound stage, and its sound stage that makes virtual 7.1 work the best for positional audio. Kinda strange.


----------



## mashuto

Hey guys, I apologize if this has been asked a million times, I dont unfortunately have time to scan through this entire huge thread. Basically, my PC died so I had to upgrade. My old setup for gaming was a xonar d1, set to 5.1, using dolby headphone. Optical out to a schitt modi 2 uber. The xonar does not fit in the new pc since I do not have any pci slots. I am hesitant to buy a pci-e version of the card since I know the xonar drivers were iffy, plus all I was really using it for was DH. For positional audio, what is my best bet now? I know that different soundcards have different virtualization options (I think my onboard does too, though I have no idea if its any good, asus rog maximus ix hero) but I know there are some software options as well.

I downloaded razer surround to tryout, but havent had much time to really audition it. One thing I noticed off the bat was that it definitely degrades audio quality. What about the new win 10 creators update spatial options? I know there is windows sonic and the option to buy atmos headphone. If it works anything like DH, I would be happy to spend the 15 dollars on it. Does it do the same thing? I remember with DH, I would actually set to it 6 speakers, then DH to a single headphone output. Is that how it works with atmos? BF1 is my most played game right now, but there is no direct speaker setting in the game, would I just set it to surround and let atmos work its magic?

Anything pointing me in a good direction here would be helpful, thanks!


----------



## Rompe

mashuto said:


> Hey guys, I apologize if this has been asked a million times, I dont unfortunately have time to scan through this entire huge thread. Basically, my PC died so I had to upgrade. My old setup for gaming was a xonar d1, set to 5.1, using dolby headphone. Optical out to a schitt modi 2 uber. The xonar does not fit in the new pc since I do not have any pci slots. I am hesitant to buy a pci-e version of the card since I know the xonar drivers were iffy, plus all I was really using it for was DH. For positional audio, what is my best bet now? I know that different soundcards have different virtualization options (I think my onboard does too, though I have no idea if its any good, asus rog maximus ix hero) but I know there are some software options as well.
> 
> I downloaded razer surround to tryout, but havent had much time to really audition it. One thing I noticed off the bat was that it definitely degrades audio quality. What about the new win 10 creators update spatial options? I know there is windows sonic and the option to buy atmos headphone. If it works anything like DH, I would be happy to spend the 15 dollars on it. Does it do the same thing? I remember with DH, I would actually set to it 6 speakers, then DH to a single headphone output. Is that how it works with atmos? BF1 is my most played game right now, but there is no direct speaker setting in the game, would I just set it to surround and let atmos work its magic?
> 
> Anything pointing me in a good direction here would be helpful, thanks!


Onboard audio of your motherboard (latest Realtek ALC1220 codec, ESS9023P DAC, a Texas Instruments R4580I op-amp) seems to be excellent: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...us-maximus-ix-hero-motherboard-review-12.html
So I would try it's virtual surround solution first and see how it compares to the Dolby headphone you had before. If you want to use Schiit modi 2 DAC instead, I tihnk you should be able to send the processed virtual surround 2-channel signal through optical out to modi 2.


----------



## mashuto

Rompe said:


> Onboard audio of your motherboard (latest Realtek ALC1220 codec, ESS9023P DAC, a Texas Instruments R4580I op-amp) seems to be excellent: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...us-maximus-ix-hero-motherboard-review-12.html
> So I would try it's virtual surround solution first and see how it compares to the Dolby headphone you had before. If you want to use Schiit modi 2 DAC instead, I tihnk you should be able to send the processed virtual surround 2-channel signal through optical out to modi 2.



Ill certainly play around with it this evening, but the software that was provided with the motherboard for the audio settings was... meh. There seemed to be a spot to select surround virtualization, but in my very quick test (with stereo audio) I couldnt hear any real difference at all, which I assumed it should sound like the audio was coming from the front two channels only (as it did with dolby headphone).

Also, that review says that audio quality is pretty good, but it doesnt mention the virtual surround at all, so I still dont know. I also guess worst case scenario I could simply try out the built in windows virtualization and with dolby atmos through windows since there is a trial. I am just not sure if it is supposed to work as I am hoping.

Biggest things for me are to be able to continue using my schitt stack (which I assume optical is the way to go) and that I can get good positional cues from my game.


----------



## Rompe

Are you sure you set your software/settings correctly? You can easily test if the surround "virtual" speaker works by using Windows own speaker configuration by pressing corresponding speaker icon. I think there should be something like that included also in the software provided. At least my 3 year old MSI has and the virtual surround works just fine. That Asus should have better solution by now.

That review actually mentions virtual surround on the software section. Motherboard reviews usually doesn't go indepth into software. But note that this was just the first hit I got from google, so you should find more info if you are willing to look.

Windows spatial sound/Dolby Atmos for headphones haven't had much praise for their quality either, quite the contrary.

Generally if the game already has inbuilt software HRTF for headphones (e.g. CS:GO, PUBG, Portal 2), it is recommended to use that instead of any other hardware/software virtual surround solution. You will generally get much more accurate/better results with that. I think most modern PC games should have the option.


----------



## mashuto

Rompe said:


> Are you sure you set your software/settings correctly? You can easily test if the surround "virtual" speaker works by using Windows own speaker configuration by pressing corresponding speaker icon. I think there should be something like that included also in the software provided. At least my 3 year old MSI has and the virtual surround works just fine. That Asus should have better solution by now.
> 
> That review actually mentions virtual surround on the software section. Motherboard reviews usually doesn't go indepth into software. But note that this was just the first hit I got from google, so you should find more info if you are willing to look.
> 
> ...



Honestly not sure. I spent a rough 4 hours on Sunday night getting this new build together (after I accidentally bent some of the cpu pins on the motherboard) so I didnt get to check then, and havent had a ton of time to play with the audio settings yet, but what I am not sure of is whether the asus software will let me choose more than 2 speakers (or if I should) since I am using the digital optical out. I will search more. I guess I am just coming from my last builds (maybe 2012) where onboard audio was always pretty terrible.

And for the inbuilt windows solutions, I dont know much about them so I figured I would ask.

I do know that using built in HRTF is the way to go, but the game I am most interested in getting good positional audio for is BF1, and nothing I have been able to find so far has been able to really tell me if they have an hrtf function built into the game. You can choose between stereo and surround (but not any actual speaker setups) and there is a headphone setting, but Im pretty sure that one just controls dynamic range of the audio and has nothing to do with channel output.

Either way, new video card should be arriving by the time I get home from work, so I guess I will be playing with settings this evening.


----------



## Garzhad

Question, is $199.99 a good price for AKG K7xx, and is it considered as good of an all-rounder(good soundstage, bass, ect) for gaming/movies/music as the K702 Annies? It says they are based on the Annies but not sure if that means they have the same all-round goodness or not.

Is it generally better than the Beyer DT990 and Senn HD598 SE?


----------



## Helvetica bold (Jun 4, 2017)

I just dowloaded the Dolby App for my Xbox and I have Atmos enabled. Just wanted to try it out. I have my headphones connect to my AVR.
Im trying BF1 and I have that set to headphones, stereo. Is this the proper set up for the app? I know you're not supposed to be using any other processing.
Also I understand that BF1 doesnt support atmos on Xbox but I thought the headphone app may do something. Or in BF1 audio menu should I use Surround and headphones?


----------



## lenroot77

Garzhad said:


> Question, is $199.99 a good price for AKG K7xx, and is it considered as good of an all-rounder(good soundstage, bass, ect) for gaming/movies/music as the K702 Annies? It says they are based on the Annies but not sure if that means they have the same all-round goodness or not.
> 
> Is it generally better than the Beyer DT990 and Senn HD598 SE?




199.99 is the only price they are ever sold at. If you check the classifieds here at headfi they can often be had for 150, sometimes even less.

MOST people here would choose the K7xx's over the dt990's. (Because they don't care for the Beyers spiked treble)

MANY would prefer the K7xx's over the hd598's. 

Personally I'm be enjoyed all 3, if I had to pick one I'd go for the akg's.
All three work very well with SBX and for the most part comes down to personal preference as far as what sound signature your enjoy and which fits your head the best.

You'll find good descriptions of each sound signature on the first page here and more impressions in their appropriate threads on headfi.


----------



## PacoTaco

For a mix of gaming and music, I'd agree, I would get the K7xx's over both. Honestly though, I'd lean more towards the DT880. I found the K7XXs bass...a bit too weird for my taste.

Anyway, I just recently got a pair of HD800's with the SDR mod. They're surprisingly immersive. I came from the Atticus/Eikon, and I was surprised about deep and textured the bass was (even compared to the EIkon.)


----------



## Garzhad (Jun 5, 2017)

lenroot77 said:


> 199.99 is the only price they are ever sold at. If you check the classifieds here at headfi they can often be had for 150, sometimes even less.
> 
> MOST people here would choose the K7xx's over the dt990's. (Because they don't care for the Beyers spiked treble)
> 
> ...


Ahh, so the $650 MSRP listed is just a bit of misleading pricing to make you think you're getting a massive deal when really thats just the average? Kinda unfortunate, but, they ARE right at the limit of my budget, and not much pricier than the other two, so if they're generally considered 'better', or at least, lack the cons(trebel on the 990's, bass on the 598's) then they sound good. Still seems like its a pretty good deal considering its the same price as new k702's, and vastly less than any available set of regular annies.


PacoTaco said:


> For a mix of gaming and music, I'd agree, I would get the K7xx's over both. Honestly though, I'd lean more towards the DT880. I found the K7XXs bass...a bit too weird for my taste.
> 
> Anyway, I just recently got a pair of HD800's with the SDR mod. They're surprisingly immersive. I came from the Atticus/Eikon, and I was surprised about deep and textured the bass was (even compared to the EIkon.)


Except for lacking the overemphasized treble, are the 880's largely like the 990's? I keep hearing about listener fatigue concerns with the 990s, so if the  880's are more or less just as good without that con, I might lean towards those, especially this pair: https://www.amazon.com/BeyerDynamic-Premium-Special-Version-717258/dp/B01MXR65M6/ref=sr_1_17?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1496693738&sr=1-17&keywords=open+back+over+ear+-wireless&refinements=p_36:6000-25000 But MLE did mention the 880's had some significant issues with positional cues. which is somewhat concerning. I'm not sure if that problem could be corrected by adjusting virtual speaker positions in SBX though, but if it is, well, theyd be gold. My current YEARS old soundcard is a Xonar DG; using the Uni drivers you can definitely adjust how the virtual 7.1 sounds by playing in the software; ive experimented with it and artificially created the 'center sounding behind cues' MLE mentioned by moving them forward, but not sure if that would in turn also be able to alleviate a Natural problem with the set of phones.

For me, ~$200 is basically my soft limit on what i'd drop for a set of phones. Do the pricier ones sound better? I imagine so to justify the price premium, but significant enough to warrant it? To some, obviously, but AFAIC, nope. Particularly as a pc gamer when theres plenty of other money-demanding hardware necessary. That $800 premium for HD800's is equivalent to two GPU upgrades over the years or an entirely new system build, both of which are going to improve gaming significantly more for the price, albeit different aspects of it.

Doubly so considering in order to get the most out of even the sub $200 phones I need to buy a non-onboard audio solution. Still torn between getting a ZxR with the ability to tweak the sound with op-amp swaps, just getting a G5/E5(with or without an extra external amp as some have mentioned they need), or buying a Z-card for the features and using the optical out to an external dac/amp like Schiit or something. Figuring out the best way to get what you need is hard lol. I've heard some people say onboard these days is excellent... but thats only if you drop $200+ on some ultra-high end motherboard with tons of crap you'll never use. Most mainstream boards use ALC887/892, which are pretty crap; I know, because my 5 yr old mobo uses that chip, and even the xonar DG was significantly better..

As an example, which would be better suited for playing stuff like , electronic/industrial, metal and rock?


----------



## mbyrnes

You should REALLY look into the Monoprice M1060. I love them for gaming, and they have serious bass. The thread on them here is intense, with people modding them for different reasons. I've added Vegan LCS2 pads to mine for comfort. These are way better then my AKG K702 Annies. You lose some soundstage on the M1060, but it is still very good. The bass is really good, I really love planar bass.


----------



## Garzhad

mbyrnes said:


> You should REALLY look into the Monoprice M1060. I love them for gaming, and they have serious bass. The thread on them here is intense, with people modding them for different reasons. I've added Vegan LCS2 pads to mine for comfort. These are way better then my AKG K702 Annies. You lose some soundstage on the M1060, but it is still very good. The bass is really good, I really love planar bass.


Out of my pay grade, unless you got a pair for less than $200


----------



## cskippy

Find a used planar in the classified section. Planars beat dynamic headphones for 3D positioning in games, yes, even HD800.  They create an equal sound sphere around your head such that turning around in a 360 with a constant noise in front of you will not get closer or farther away, it will just move around your head.  With dynamic headphones the sound will get closer and further away depending on the specific headphone.  Here is a video you can use to test:


----------



## Garzhad (Jun 6, 2017)

cskippy said:


> Find a used planar in the classified section. Planars beat dynamic headphones for 3D positioning in games, yes, even HD800.  They create an equal sound sphere around your head such that turning around in a 360 with a constant noise in front of you will not get closer or farther away, it will just move around your head.  With dynamic headphones the sound will get closer and further away depending on the specific headphone.  Here is a video you can use to test:



I'm currently using a pair of crappy IEM's, on my laptop, and even on them I can hear the position of the sound shifting as he turns. It doesnt sound closer or further away, just the perceived direction the sound is coming from changes.

Still, does anyone think the Fostex T20/T50's are better for soundstage, positional cues and fun than the K7xx or others previously mentioned? Seem like the only cheaply available planars that are in a style i find... adequate. 'Course, it seems I can get a pair cheap enough I might just get both and compare em myself.


----------



## overhaze

Given the Chord Mojos focus on transients might it be an awesome gaming dac/amp? I haven't seen anyone comment on its performance as such,


----------



## pervysage

Holy moly, I just realized that Xbox One had some new surround options after reading the last couple pages of this thread.

I tried both Windows Sonic for Headphones and Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Windows Sonic sounds a lot better to me than both the regular Dolby Digital from the Astro Mixamp and the Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Atmos sounds kind of unrealistic and almost tinny with lots of distance between you and the sounds making it a bit harder and taking longer to realize where the sound is actually coming from. Windows Sonic sounds rich and realistic with great positional audio. I can instantly tell where the sounds are coming from.

Both sound better than the Astro Mixamp's built in Dolby Digital IMO.


----------



## cskippy

How are you using it?  What's your chain?  I didn't care for Dolby Atmos with games but haven't tried Windows Sonic yet.


----------



## mbyrnes

I'm away from home until early next month. Soon as I get home I'll be downloading and trying both options. I've read almost everywhere that the Microsoft version is better right now. Both versions will probably get updates down the road. 

Next level VSS at the console level, is exactly what I've been hoping for, for a long time. Let's hope it can really improve sound for headphone gamers.


----------



## pervysage

cskippy said:


> How are you using it?  What's your chain?  I didn't care for Dolby Atmos with games but haven't tried Windows Sonic yet.



Xbox One to Astro Mixamp through Optical (Mixamp surround & processing disabled) and then I feed my Mixamp signal to my Master 11's amp.

Although I suppose I could even bypass the Mixamp with this for a shorter chain and better quality and go optical from Xbox straight to my Master 11's optical in. I wonder if that would work?

Although I would need a solution for microphone chat. I guess I could connect microphone straight to the controller and have voice chat output through speakers in the options.


----------



## cskippy

Awesome, thanks!  I'm not sure if the mixamp is required as your not sending encoded 5.1.  Optical to Master 11 would be the best option but the voice chat through speakers is horrible as there is no way to adjust the volume, voices are always too quiet compared to game audio, which is too bad.  It would be super simple to make a volume mixer like the one on the controller that was just an option when you enable voice chat through speakers.  Give it a try though.


----------



## file1man (Jun 12, 2017)

mbyrnes said:


> You should REALLY look into the Monoprice M1060. I love them for gaming, and they have serious bass. The thread on them here is intense, with people modding them for different reasons. I've added Vegan LCS2 pads to mine for comfort. These are way better then my AKG K702 Annies. You lose some soundstage on the M1060, but it is still very good. The bass is really good, I really love planar bass.


For last 3 years I used wired astos heaphones with their good gaming sounds and exceptional microphone when doin ops in games with other people- dont recall, believe were $320 and back then , there was no good alternative- went to 3 other micd sets before the astros. Purchased a Monmoprice M 1060 this week so what microphone would you use for gaming conversations in discord or skype when gaming with other people? I now use focusrite 2i4 (connects to computer by usb, about $240)rather than my creative Zxr sound card with its pcie slot & daughtercard because I wanted to run my MSI gtx 970's in sli w 3 monitor setup 144 mhz. Surprisingly the focusrite is as good sound as ZxR and the ZxR needed a reboot almost every day on my asus motherboard, otherwise windows 10 usually did not find the sound card- was frustrating. So what microphone with the M1060


----------



## mashuto

pervysage said:


> Holy moly, I just realized that Xbox One had some new surround options after reading the last couple pages of this thread.
> 
> I tried both Windows Sonic for Headphones and Dolby Atmos for Headphones.
> 
> ...



Its interesting that you say that. I don't have an xbox, but I am using the virtualization in windows. I tried both atmos and windows sonic, and felt the exact opposite of you. Windows sonic to me sounded tinny and artificial and sounded like it had a lot of compression artifacts, whereas dolby atmos gave me a much more natural, full sound, that doesnt sound artificial. And the positional audio works great for me with atmos (didnt test much with windows sonic because I didnt like the way it sounded). But I should also mention that I was previously gaming (for a few years) with a soundcard that used Dolby Headphone and very much enjoyed it and was used to it.


----------



## Azurik

I find Dolby atmos for headphones to have too much reverb just like Dolby headphone, where windows sonic does sound more natural. 

Am I right in thinking that I need to leave game audio settings on stereo and the codecs do the rest or should I switch to surround in the game options (if available)?


----------



## Darch

Hi folks. Can anyone tell me how the Sennheiser HD 598s compare/contrast with the 599s? I can get both for pretty much the same price. They'd be mainly used for gaming, but also some music listening.


----------



## AxelCloris

Darch said:


> Hi folks. Can anyone tell me how the Sennheiser HD 598s compare/contrast with the 599s? I can get both for pretty much the same price. They'd be mainly used for gaming, but also some music listening.


IMO. the 599 is a solid improvement over the 598 in both sound and aesthetic. If they're the same price, the 599 is a no-brainer for me.


----------



## pervysage (Jun 14, 2017)

mashuto said:


> Its interesting that you say that. I don't have an xbox, but I am using the virtualization in windows. I tried both atmos and windows sonic, and felt the exact opposite of you. Windows sonic to me sounded tinny and artificial and sounded like it had a lot of compression artifacts, whereas dolby atmos gave me a much more natural, full sound, that doesnt sound artificial. And the positional audio works great for me with atmos (didnt test much with windows sonic because I didnt like the way it sounded). But I should also mention that I was previously gaming (for a few years) with a soundcard that used Dolby Headphone and very much enjoyed it and was used to it.



I actually ended up switching back to the regular Dolby surround of the Mixamp. While Sonic does sound more realistic, in certain situations the surrounding noises that I was listening for were way too close to me even though the person making the noise was not that close. Therefore, I would be kind of thrown off as to what the position of said person was. Everything is much louder and clearer with Sonic but sometimes everything sounds too close to you.

EDIT: I actually ended up trying Atmos with the Focal Utopia (which has a intimate soundstage usually not the greatest for gaming) and the combo actually works surprisingly well. Will be experimenting more with this.


----------



## kellte2

pervysage said:


> I actually ended up switching back to the regular Dolby surround of the Mixamp. While Sonic does sound more realistic, in certain situations the surrounding noises that I was listening for were way too close to me even though the person making the noise was not that close. Therefore, I would be kind of thrown off as to what the position of said person was. Everything is much louder and clearer with Sonic but sometimes everything sounds too close to you.
> 
> EDIT: I actually ended up trying Atmos with the Focal Utopia (which has a intimate soundstage usually not the greatest for gaming) and the combo actually works surprisingly well. Will be experimenting more with this.



As a PS4 pro owner, I'm very jealous of these system level, output options. I'm feeding my X7 with Dolby, but this is pretty slick.


----------



## pervysage

pervysage said:


> I actually ended up switching back to the regular Dolby surround of the Mixamp. While Sonic does sound more realistic, in certain situations the surrounding noises that I was listening for were way too close to me even though the person making the noise was not that close. Therefore, I would be kind of thrown off as to what the position of said person was. Everything is much louder and clearer with Sonic but sometimes everything sounds too close to you.
> 
> EDIT: I actually ended up trying Atmos with the Focal Utopia (which has a intimate soundstage usually not the greatest for gaming) and the combo actually works surprisingly well. Will be experimenting more with this.



So it seems that the Atmos option is really glitchy at the moment because it goes from sounding great to all of a sudden sounding very tinny and unrealistic and at times filled with static. When it is working properly, it sounds better than the other options available IMO but unfortunately this great sound doesn't last very long with the glitches.



kellte2 said:


> As a PS4 pro owner, I'm very jealous of these system level, output options. I'm feeding my X7 with Dolby, but this is pretty slick.



Yes, it's nice to see they are making an effort at improving sound options.


----------



## mbyrnes (Jun 15, 2017)

file1man said:


> For last 3 years I used wired astos heaphones with their good gaming sounds and exceptional microphone when doin ops in games with other people- dont recall, believe were $320 and back then , there was no good alternative- went to 3 other micd sets before the astros. Purchased a Monmoprice M 1060 this week so what microphone would you use for gaming conversations in discord or skype when gaming with other people? I now use focusrite 2i4 (connects to computer by usb, about $240)rather than my creative Zxr sound card with its pcie slot & daughtercard because I wanted to run my MSI gtx 970's in sli w 3 monitor setup 144 mhz. Surprisingly the focusrite is as good sound as ZxR and the ZxR needed a reboot almost every day on my asus motherboard, otherwise windows 10 usually did not find the sound card- was frustrating. So what microphone with the M1060



I use an Antlion Modmic 4.0. It isn't cheap, but it is a really good mic. Now Massdrop has just launched a microphone similar to the Modmic at $25. Here is a link to their microphone option. I ordered one, but it is going to be a few months until I get it (Just how Massdrop works if you don't know). Here is a link to Antlion's website. B&H Photo has the Modmic at $50 right now, which was the cheapest in a quick search (no tax outside of NY state).

I have the little 3M bases attached to 4 of my headphones. The cable management clips work decently. It is nice because you can take the mic off and use the headphone as normal with a little, mostly unnoticeable circle that magnetically holds the mic in place. I can and do knock the mic off of the base a lot, so the Massdrop version which will be using Velcro, is more appealing to me. I will most likely have both mics in use regularly, as I switch headphones a lot. The Massdrop Mic will be used on my M1060 solely, and the Modmic will be attached to my 2.5mm cable that I use on my Hifiman Edition X V2, and newly modded to 2.5mm, Fostex TH-X00 Ebony.

On the Massdrop link, they have sound examples. Here is a video comparing both at the same time:



The first page of this thread has other examples, and maybe others can chime in on what they use.


----------



## mbyrnes

pervysage said:


> I actually ended up switching back to the regular Dolby surround of the Mixamp. While Sonic does sound more realistic, in certain situations the surrounding noises that I was listening for were way too close to me even though the person making the noise was not that close. Therefore, I would be kind of thrown off as to what the position of said person was. Everything is much louder and clearer with Sonic but sometimes everything sounds too close to you.
> 
> EDIT: I actually ended up trying Atmos with the Focal Utopia (which has a intimate soundstage usually not the greatest for gaming) and the combo actually works surprisingly well. Will be experimenting more with this.



Have you tried a UHD Blu-ray with Dolby Atmos headphone enabled (playing the UHD through the Xbox One S?)


----------



## itinkerstuff

Has anyone ever tried the Marshall Monitors for fps gaming? What are your thoughts about it?


----------



## AxelCloris

file1man said:


> Purchased a Monmoprice M 1060 this week so what microphone would you use for gaming conversations in discord or skype when gaming with other people? I now use focusrite 2i4 (connects to computer by usb, about $240)rather than my creative Zxr sound card


Oh man, I could go into soooooo many mic options if you want to use your Focusrite. I game using my Scarlett 2i2 as an interface for my microphones and it's wonderful. Probably the single most overkill mic I've used for gaming was the Blue Kiwi. For normal day-to-day gaming you can get by with even a cheap $20 XLR mic as long as it sounds decent. I mount my mic on a boom arm and run that into my Focusrite.


----------



## rudyae86

Hello everyone, I have been MIA for a while, mainly because I don't like the new look for the site and have had trouble using it on my android  lol. Have I missed out on anything new and relevant? Heard something about a new Creative Labs sound card with RGB lighting...lol.


----------



## mbyrnes

rudyae86 said:


> Hello everyone, I have been MIA for a while, mainly because I don't like the new look for the site and have had trouble using it on my android  lol. Have I missed out on anything new and relevant? Heard something about a new Creative Labs sound card with RGB lighting...lol.



I didn't like the change at first, but they've added to it and now I prefer the new look! Easier on my phone to use now. The first week or two were bad though.


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Oh man, I could go into soooooo many mic options if you want to use your Focusrite. I game using my Scarlett 2i2 as an interface for my microphones and it's wonderful. Probably the single most overkill mic I've used for gaming was the Blue Kiwi. For normal day-to-day gaming you can get by with even a cheap $20 XLR mic as long as it sounds decent. I mount my mic on a boom arm and run that into my Focusrite.


What are you using to power those monitors Axel? I may be looking for something small(-ish) as an upgrade from the X7 speaker outs



rudyae86 said:


> Hello everyone, I have been MIA for a while, mainly because I don't like the new look for the site and have had trouble using it on my android  lol. Have I missed out on anything new and relevant? Heard something about a new Creative Labs sound card with RGB lighting...lol.


Sadly it's true, they actually made a PCI-e card with RGB. Moreover, it does not have swappable opamps


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> What are you using to power those monitors Axel? I may be looking for something small(-ish) as an upgrade from the X7 speaker outs


Currently using the Audioengine N22 towards the center of the desk. It serves its purpose. I had another amp previously that sounded better with my DefTechs, but the left channel died so I grabbed a functional replacement. I'm eventually going to be swapping these monitors out for an active pair.


----------



## fullmoon280

So my mixamp is broken and i need a new one. My question is what are the differences between the mixamp pro 2013 model and the 2014 model. Which would you guys recommend? I would get the one i have again(it was the 2010 model i think) but they dont have it on amazon and im using giftcards to get the new mixamp so im kinda stuck with amazon for my purchase.


----------



## bloodshot (Jun 17, 2017)

Hi all,

  Excellent thread, I am attempting to setup the best possible surround experience for gaming(mainly PUBG) but I'm at a standstill with what hardware to purchase. I followed the guide on Page 1 but there are just too many different options to go with and I don't want to make the wrong decision as the price isn't cheap. I currently have a Asus Xonar Essence STX with Astro A50 headphones but haven't been to pleased with it. I just purchased a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's as I heard great things about them. The issue i'm now having is what to get for the AMP/DAC setup. I am currently torn between the Creative X7 (LE or Standard) and the Schiit Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber stack. Does anyone know which setup would go better with the DT 990 Pro's for gaming?

Thank you!


----------



## Yethal

bloodshot said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Excellent thread, I am attempting to setup the best possible surround experience for gaming(mainly PUBG) but I'm at a standstill with what hardware to purchase. I followed the guide on Page 1 but there are just too many different options to go with and I don't want to make the wrong decision as the price isn't cheap. I currently have a Asus Xonar Essence STX with Astro A50 headphones but haven't been to pleased with it. I just purchased a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's as I heard great things about them. The issue i'm now having is what to get for the AMP/DAC setup. I am currently torn between the Creative X7 (LE or Standard) and the Schiit Magni 2 Uber/Modi 2 Uber stack. Does anyone know which setup would go better with the DT 990 Pro's for gaming?
> 
> Thank you!


A gaming audio chain is compromised of three devices. A DSP, a DAC, and an amp. The Xonar Essence STX is all three of them at the same time, but simultaneously it can also be a DSP only or a DSP+ DAC only. Try your headphones plugged directly into the STX and only if you find them not satisfying, buy an external amp. There really is no point in buying Creative X7 if you already own an STX.


----------



## bloodshot

Yethal said:


> A gaming audio chain is compromised of three devices. A DSP, a DAC, and an amp. The Xonar Essence STX is all three of them at the same time, but simultaneously it can also be a DSP only or a DSP+ DAC only. Try your headphones plugged directly into the STX and only if you find them not satisfying, buy an external amp. There really is no point in buying Creative X7 if you already own an STX.



Thanks for the reply! The only reason I was thinking about purchasing the x7 or schiit stack was due to reading it improved the overall sound experience over the STX. So from what you are saying, would the gaming aspect of the STX such as sound quality and positional audio perform the same as an x7 or schiit stack?

Thanks again for the info.


----------



## cskippy

For positional audio (surround sound processing DSPs like Dolby Headphone or SBX) you can use the STX processing and then send it to the Schiit stack.  You can then disable the processing and just use it as the stereo device for listening to music.  SPDIF input is superior to USB especially on Schiit products.  This would be a pretty good upgrade over just the STX depending on the headphone used.


----------



## bloodshot (Jun 18, 2017)

cskippy said:


> For positional audio (surround sound processing DSPs like Dolby Headphone or SBX) you can use the STX processing and then send it to the Schiit stack.  You can then disable the processing and just use it as the stereo device for listening to music.  SPDIF input is superior to USB especially on Schiit products.  This would be a pretty good upgrade over just the STX depending on the headphone used.



I really appreciate the info =) So just to clarify, would the schiit stack (magni 2 uber/modi 2 uber) + STX be better option for positional audio instead of the creative x7? The headset I'll be using is the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's.


----------



## Yethal

bloodshot said:


> I really appreciate the info =) So just to clarify, would the schiit stack (magni 2 uber/modi 2 uber) + STX be better option for positional audio instead of the creative x7? The headset I'll be using is the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro's.


It's not a question of better/worse. Buying the X7 (DSP+DAC+headphone amp+speaker amp) makes little sense if You already own a DSP (Xonar STX) and don't plan on using passive speakers (which the X7 can drive). If You only use headphones and not speakers, or You use powered speakers then X7 is simply overkill.


----------



## bloodshot

Yethal said:


> It's not a question of better/worse. Buying the X7 (DSP+DAC+headphone amp+speaker amp) makes little sense if You already own a DSP (Xonar STX) and don't plan on using passive speakers (which the X7 can drive). If You only use headphones and not speakers, or You use powered speakers then X7 is simply overkill.



I understand but don't really mind paying more for "overkill" if it will be an overall improved sound experience. I won't be using speakers for gaming, just headphones. So my question still stands, which setup would give me the best overall sound experience with DT 990 Pro Headphones, the Creative X7 or STX + Schiit v2 uber stack?


----------



## Yethal

bloodshot said:


> I understand but don't really mind paying more for "overkill" if it will be an overall improved sound experience. I won't be using speakers for gaming, just headphones. So my question still stands, which setup would give me the best overall sound experience with DT 990 Pro Headphones, the Creative X7 or STX + Schiit v2 uber stack?


Instead of adding an amp and a dac to the STX You could use the STX as DSP+DAC and use the money to buy a beefier amp (such as Schiit's own Jotunheim) which I belive will provide a better experience than both options.


----------



## bloodshot

Yethal said:


> Instead of adding an amp and a dac to the STX You could use the STX as DSP+DAC and use the money to buy a beefier amp (such as Schiit's own Jotunheim) which I belive will provide a better experience than both options.



Wow the Jotunheim looks amazing! I'll go with that option then. Thanks


----------



## cottonthemoth (Jun 21, 2017)

My current setup is Sony MA900's plugged right into my Asus Xonar DGX PCIe card. Even though MA900's only have 12 ohms of impedence, I run them in the middle "Pro-Gaming" Mode for a volume level that falls more in line with my typical gaming / Discord sessions (the DGX's headphone amp seems to do a fantastic job for me).

I have some questions about "Dolby Headphone" Mode on my DGX card. From my experimentation with it over a year ago, I felt similar to u/dannyd1999's comment,


> "all Dolby does is make the sound artificial, worsens the audio quality, and doesn't really help in gaming"



When playing games like Red Orchestra 2 / Rising Storm 2: Vietnam, It seems like the best performance comes from leaving Dolby disabled and letting the game's built-in mixing software do the job. Is this against what most advise?

*Edit:*
After some basic googling, it seems like perhaps this reduced quality effect is due to me usually selecting "Headphone" in game's audio settings, since Dolby Headphone's role is to process 7.1/5.1 surround signals into 3D headphone cues...

I'll experiment with this later today and report back with my findings, comparing settings.

*Edit 2:*
Looks like there's also reverb issues by default when using the stock/updated Asus drivers, fixed by a dude who released his own drivers called UniXonar, so sounds like I have a bit of a writeup on my hands after work!


----------



## Yethal

Try changing the Dolby Headphone room mode from the default room 2 to room 1. Should sound less processed.


----------



## cottonthemoth

Hmm, even with that, everything just sounds far away and terrible. It may be the slightest bit easier to determine location in 3D space (not even certain on this), but it makes sounds that occur near the player (firing your own weapon) very unenjoyable. Looks like Dolby Headphone is staying off. RS2 Vietnam doesn't allow for you to select what type of sound system your playing into it seems. I'm going to wager that it's much more at home in use on a movie that has 5.1/7.1 built-in for an immersive experience.


----------



## Yethal

Out of pure curiosity, what are your windows/xonar/game settings?


----------



## cottonthemoth (Jun 21, 2017)

Also set as 7.1 within Windows Audio Configuration Tool
Controller Information also lists the Asus DGX and not the in-built motherboard Realtek driver which stays on for when I swap to my Creative T10's.


----------



## Yethal

Seems like You have everything set up correctly. What happens if You enable virtual speaker shifter and move the speakers away from the head?


----------



## cottonthemoth (Jun 21, 2017)

Yethal said:


> Seems like You have everything set up correctly. What happens if You enable virtual speaker shifter and move the speakers away from the head?



I'll mess with it, but I have a feeling I won't be able to stand it-- for VOIP interaction in particular. Everyone talking sounded underwater, and it's nice hearing un-processed mic audio. Further away 3D shift should only exacerbate this.

*Edit:*
Ordered an Audioengine D1 looool


----------



## Lunatics (Jun 27, 2017)

Hey guys, currently using a Creative X7 and AKG K7XXs on my desktop set up, primarily gaming but I listen to a lot of music as well and care about the overall sound quality. Just picked up a MSI 16L13 beast of a laptop with an i7 7700K and GTX 1080. I plan to hopefully be taking this over friends houses and away with me and using it to game on the go more often. I am interested in getting a medium/good audio set up on here that I can carry around with me and looking for some advice. First thing I want is definitely a DAC/AMP combo that is fairly small and portable but has the power to power almost any headphone I would want and is good quality. Hopefully (I'm assuming) just runs off USB and no other external power. I would also like a good pair of headphones to use with it that would not be too difficult to leave in a backpack and carry around with me on a regular basis. I was thinking about getting the HD 6XXs from MD but the price hike and 6 month shipping time is turning me off from that the more I think about it. Curious to what some other good options may be that aren't too expensive and would be fairly easy to carry around (the headband on my AD700s and K7XXs worries me about leaving in a backpack with other stuff and carrying around, they seem pretty delicate). Would I be better off looking at a pair of full size headphones, or is there a good pair of IEMs that will give me comparable sound and be affordable that would be easier to carry around than a full pair of headphones?

I see that the HD 598s have a pretty good review in the first post in the thread and seem to have a good soundstage and be good for "competitive" and I see the "Black Special Edition" on ebay for about 100-150 or so? Wondering if this might overall just be a better option than thinking about the more expensive 6xx or 650s.


----------



## Turpow

Lunatics said:


> I see that the HD 598s have a pretty good review in the first post in the thread and seem to have a good soundstage and be good for "competitive" and I see the "Black Special Edition" on ebay for about 100-150 or so? Wondering if this might overall just be a better option than thinking about the more expensive 6xx or 650s.



If "competetive" gaming is important to you, the 598s are fantastic, definitly beating out the 650. Still great for music and imo one of the most comfortable and light headphones I've used. Not sure how they'd hold up to being carried around a lot. Wouldn't say they feel the most sturdy of phones. Also a fan of the dt990 pro if you want to add a bit more fun to that but lose a little soundstage. Takes a bit more juice though.


----------



## Yethal

Lunatics said:


> Hey guys, currently using a Creative X7 and AKG K7XXs on my desktop set up, primarily gaming but I listen to a lot of music as well and care about the overall sound quality. Just picked up a MSI 16L13 beast of a laptop with an i7 7700K and GTX 1080. I plan to hopefully be taking this over friends houses and away with me and using it to game on the go more often. I am interested in getting a medium/good audio set up on here that I can carry around with me and looking for some advice. First thing I want is definitely a DAC/AMP combo that is fairly small and portable but has the power to power almost any headphone I would want and is good quality. Hopefully (I'm assuming) just runs off USB and no other external power. I would also like a good pair of headphones to use with it that would not be too difficult to leave in a backpack and carry around with me on a regular basis. I was thinking about getting the HD 6XXs from MD but the price hike and 6 month shipping time is turning me off from that the more I think about it. Curious to what some other good options may be that aren't too expensive and would be fairly easy to carry around (the headband on my AD700s and K7XXs worries me about leaving in a backpack with other stuff and carrying around, they seem pretty delicate). Would I be better off looking at a pair of full size headphones, or is there a good pair of IEMs that will give me comparable sound and be affordable that would be easier to carry around than a full pair of headphones?
> 
> I see that the HD 598s have a pretty good review in the first post in the thread and seem to have a good soundstage and be good for "competitive" and I see the "Black Special Edition" on ebay for about 100-150 or so? Wondering if this might overall just be a better option than thinking about the more expensive 6xx or 650s.


Take a look at iFi iDSD BL. It has the power to power literally any headphone while still being (somewhat) portable. As for the headphones, I used to own the HD598 and they are a great pair if you're looking for competitive headphones. Look for some Beyerdynamic headphones. They're sturdy, comfortable and the parts are interchangeable with each other so You can replace the drivers later on.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> It has the power to power literally any headphone



Well that's certainly a bold statement.


----------



## rudyae86

cottonthemoth said:


> My current setup is Sony MA900's plugged right into my Asus Xonar DGX PCIe card. Even though MA900's only have 12 ohms of impedence, I run them in the middle "Pro-Gaming" Mode for a volume level that falls more in line with my typical gaming / Discord sessions (the DGX's headphone amp seems to do a fantastic job for me).
> 
> I have some questions about "Dolby Headphone" Mode on my DGX card. From my experimentation with it over a year ago, I felt similar to u/dannyd1999's comment,
> 
> ...




I am using the same settings as you are, I have the Asus Xonar DG (PCI version) and have had no problems using UniXonar drivers. I did notice a bit less reverb when using those drivers and made positional cues a bit more clearer but nothing out of this world. I enable Dolby Headphone and set it to DH2 which works out for me in most games. I am not sure if Ro2 or RO2 Veitnam have 5.1 or 7.1 support. I haven't really researched about it. Not sure if it automatically detects if windows is configured for stereo or 5.1 r 7.1. So it really is a hit or miss figuring out if you should enable DH or not for those types of games that dont have an audio setting (like BF1)


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Well that's certainly a bold statement.


Okay, maybe not electrostats but this thing is able to output 4W into 32ohm which is more than several desktop amps can provide. Guys on the BL thread claim to be able to power LCD4 with this thing.


----------



## Azurik

Has anybody had time to properly test Dolby atmos for headphones on the Xbox? 

I wondered what setting i have to leave game audio on? Surround or stereo? 

I know at the moment games don't support and it's more like an upmix but still not sure what setting to go with. I tried battlefield 1 with stereo and surround but to be honest I'm not really able to tell a difference. 

Once games support it (gears 4 should be one of the first soon), what is the correct setting?


----------



## rudyae86

Azurik said:


> Has anybody had time to properly test Dolby atmos for headphones on the Xbox?
> 
> I wondered what setting i have to leave game audio on? Surround or stereo?
> 
> ...



Surround. Although I don't own an Xbox, I don't know how it will be implemented in games. It could be that GOW4 might have Dolby Atmos for headphones baked in and won't need any other settings changed. But if XBONE gives you the option to enable Dolby Atmos for headphones, more likely within the audio settings of a game you must set it to surround or 5.1/7.1 so that DA can downmix it to Stereo for you to hear VSS to your headphones.


----------



## rudyae86

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5

Seems like Creatives new internal sound card is already on sale and will be on sale soon on amazon. Kind of want to try it out to see how it compares to my old SB Z and Asus Xonar DG with Schiit Modi 2 Uber/Cayin C5 Amp.

I am pretty sure they will eventually release an external sound card since the G5 is a love and hate sound card, with most people really not liking it for it's processed surround sound (SBX). If they do release an external version, I hope they make it compatible for consoles.

But comparing the AE 5 with the SB Z, hardware wise, it should be better especially with it's 1ohm output compared to SB Z (15ohm?)


----------



## cskippy

If you use the SBX with an external DAC and amp there probably isn't any difference.


----------



## illram

Anyone here ever compare the HD700 to the HE-560? Massdrop has the HD700 up for $399. My assumption is it's a step backwards, is that right?


----------



## cskippy

From what I've read is the HD700 is a real face tweater being even brighter than HD800, which is considered too bright for many.  I like the HE-560 when I heard it.  It has a smoother sound than a stock HE-6 and is easier to drive.


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5
> 
> Seems like Creatives new internal sound card is already on sale and will be on sale soon on amazon. Kind of want to try it out to see how it compares to my old SB Z and Asus Xonar DG with Schiit Modi 2 Uber/Cayin C5 Amp.
> 
> ...


It has a ****ing RGB HEADER so the RGB strips can pulse with the music. How stupid (and dangerous if you're epileptic) is that?


----------



## Azurik

rudyae86 said:


> Surround. Although I don't own an Xbox, I don't know how it will be implemented in games. It could be that GOW4 might have Dolby Atmos for headphones baked in and won't need any other settings changed. But if XBONE gives you the option to enable Dolby Atmos for headphones, more likely within the audio settings of a game you must set it to surround or 5.1/7.1 so that DA can downmix it to Stereo for you to hear VSS to your headphones.



Thanks for your reply. I guess once games are patched to support it, there will be a proper setting in the option. I'll run with surround settings for now.


----------



## rudyae86

Yethal said:


> It has a ****ing RGB HEADER so the RGB strips can pulse with the music. How stupid (and dangerous if you're epileptic) is that?



Well lol there are some builds with all RGB/LGBT color scheme, so I guess that's good for them. Not my style but if they took off that RGB stuff from the AE-5, Ill gladly pay $100 USD for it.


----------



## Lunatics

Hey guys thanks for the advice on the previous page. Since Massdrop lowered the price down to 200 I ended up going in and committing on the 6xx drop. Just need to find something small and portable now that will be capable of driving them on the go, even if they are not the overall best gaming headphones for that price I feel like it's a worthwhile investment and will be great for many other things.


----------



## Yethal

Lunatics said:


> Hey guys thanks for the advice on the previous page. Since Massdrop lowered the price down to 200 I ended up going in and committing on the 6xx drop. Just need to find something small and portable now that will be capable of driving them on the go, even if they are not the overall best gaming headphones for that price I feel like it's a worthwhile investment and will be great for many other things.


Audioquest dragonfly? It's not easy to get smaller than this


----------



## Danielbea122

I am buying a dss2 dolby surround sound processor and stumbled upon this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006W41X18/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A334XHS1C5Y12J&psc=1

Ignore the crappy headphones and you get the dss 2 for 28 dollars which im assuming you could use outside of gaming if you want to. Im a newb but that seems like a decent deal considering i paid like 30 bucks for fiio a1 amp


----------



## 8bitg33k

Hey guys, it's been a while since I posted here. Sorry for double post!!

Hi guys, I am in the market for a new set of headphones. Budget is 300 USD.
I have owned the following products:

Philips Fidelio X1 together with a Creative Soundcard: great sound stage, fantastic midrange and treble but very muddy base (too muddy for my taste). I very much like Creative's SBX for positional audio and prefer it over DTS and Dolby. SBX Positional audio seems superior for gaming over Dolby.

the Logitech G930's: the soundstage is not quite as wide as the Fidelios but still adequate. Alas, they failed me after a 7 year run. I like Dolby surround and it gives good positional cues.

Steelseries Arctis 7: sound tinny, I returned the product within hours

Astro A50: Amazing sound, the best of all headphones I have ever owned - especially for music. Nice flat sound, with none of the bass, midrange or treble sounding exaggerated. The bass is the best of any headphone I have owned, delivering a solid punch without over emphasizing it. Alas the sound emanates from within my head and the soundstage with Dolby enabled is abysmal. I have to concentrate hard to tell where a particular sound came from.

One caveat is that the headphones need to be wireless - I am aware that a compromise is likely built in to any solution I might find.

In short, positional audio is important but I don't want to sacrifice sound quality if possible.

Thanks in advance for any tips and insights you can offer!


----------



## guisess93

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I had the 600ohm 990s. All three need some amping however. A soundcard can amp relative efficient headphones, but I'm not so sure about the three Premium Beyers. Probably best off with the 250ohm as the 32ohm is more expensive and seems to be even harder to drive than the 250ohm...




"*The MA900 in all honesty, shares a lot with the HD650 with some key differences, which I'll touch upon in the comparison section."*
*
Hi there, I can't find this comparison section of yours. Would love to read some comparison between MA900 and HD650. Thanks a lot*


----------



## T0XiiC

Hey, im looking for a new pair of headphones.

My budget is around 100 euros (dont mind if less). I could get a pair of AKG K-612 Pro for 116€ if they are really good.

What im mainly looking for is a pair of headphones which are really good for FPS. For me its important that they have a great soundstage so I can hear enemy steps easily. Is the AKG K-612 Pro a good choice for that? Or What about a cheaper one, a superlux (if anyone has heared about that brand). 

Thanks in advance


----------



## Lunatics

Yethal said:


> Audioquest dragonfly? It's not easy to get smaller than this


I saw this and was going to look into it, it looks nice and small and portable and is fairly cheap, but would it actually be able to provide the power to drive the 6xx headphones? I don't mind spending a little more, and I think part of me would rather have a USB cable coming out of my PC and I could rest the DAC/AMP on something else and plug into it rather than having that flash drive type usb device stick directly out of the side of it, but that's not a huge deal. I will look into this and see if it is a good option and should work for me. Otherwise I was looking at probably one of the smaller FiiO portable units that's a DAC and AMP. Smaller and portable is definitely good but I want to make sure it will be able to do everything I need it to and power the headphones properly etc and improve my sound quality.


----------



## Amodymous

How does ADG1X from AT compare to PC360 in terms of immersion and build? Also for surround?

Thanks!


----------



## callizer (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm currently waiting for my PC37X to arrive. Any idea what I should drive this with? This will be used for gaming, youtube vids, movies, and casual music listening. I don't really want to move my main listening rig around.

I'm keen to try HRTF or VSS stuff so I was looking at Sennheiser GSX 1000 and Asus Xonar U7 MkII. The GSX is considerably more expensive but is it that much better? How's the ADC inside those units (I want clean sound for the mic)?


----------



## PurpleAngel

callizer said:


> I'm currently waiting for my PC37X to arrive. Any idea what I should drive this with? This will be used for gaming, youtube vids, movies, and casual music listening. I don't really want to move my main listening rig around.
> 
> I'm keen to try HRTF or VSS stuff so I was looking at Sennheiser GSX 1000 and Asus Xonar U7 MkII. The GSX is considerably more expensive but is it that much better? How's the ADC inside those units (I want clean sound for the mic)?


Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card (buy used off eBay or Amazon or other).


----------



## callizer

PurpleAngel said:


> Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card (buy used off eBay or Amazon or other).


Ah sorry I should have said that I'm looking for USB solution, not PCIe


----------



## PurpleAngel

callizer said:


> Ah sorry I should have said that I'm looking for USB solution, not PCIe


Ok, external USB is what you want.
I'm guessing the Asus Xonar U7 (MK II) is good enough.
For the kind of cash you would spend for the Sennheiser GSX-1000, would be better off getting headphones that are better (music quality wise) then the PC373.


----------



## callizer

PurpleAngel said:


> Ok, external USB is what you want.
> I'm guessing the Asus Xonar U7 (MK II) is good enough.
> For the kind of cash you would spend for the Sennheiser GSX-1000, would be better off getting headphones that are better (music quality wise) then the PC373.


Well, are there any headsets that are better than this though? I don't like to deal with Modmic cable mess so that rules a lot of stuff out. I guess I can get Fidelio X2+VModa Boom Pro but the mic quality is questionable and the price is a bit overkill for a casual setup (I have LCD-X and TG334 for music).

The reason I was looking for GSX 1000 was its VSS capability and the existence of microphone input.


----------



## PurpleAngel

callizer said:


> Well, are there any headsets that are better than this though? I don't like to deal with Modmic cable mess so that rules a lot of stuff out. I guess I can get Fidelio X2+VModa Boom Pro but the mic quality is questionable and the price is a bit overkill for a casual setup (I have LCD-X and TG334 for music).
> The reason I was looking for GSX 1000 was its VSS capability and the existence of microphone input.


I would think the PC373 and U7 would be good enough for now.


----------



## mbyrnes

The PC37X is insanely easy to drive. If I am remembering correctly, 116db/1mW. Anything can drive these to insane volume. They sound pretty good with music. I'm kind of shocked actually, because I didn't like the PC360 for music at all (the original Sennheiser headset). It's a really good deal and a really good headset, especially at $120. 

It's currently dropping, and the 4 posted reviews all get into the sound. 2 reviews are from members here at Head-fi and active in the gaming threads. Both have a very good grasp of headphones and VSS. 

I think you'll be surprised once you listen to them. I really like them, and have much nicer headphones to compare them against. Great for gaming, good for music (most people would be happy with these for music no problem).


----------



## kellte2

Big news: Logitech acquired Astro but intends to let them remain independent. Astro staff, per neogaf, seem excited about the move, as Skullcandy did not appear to have much interest/knowledge of the gaming space. 

Hope Astro gets back to making boundary pushing products like the Mixamp Pro, and fewer iterative and ultimately mediocre headsets, in a space that countinues to become increasing competitive.


----------



## illram

Interesting. If this leads to more products in the virtual surround space, especially more cross-platform (pc/console capable VSS, like the X7 or Mixamp) then I'd be happy.


----------



## AxelCloris

Personally I'm excited to hear about Logitech taking Astro from Skullcandy, if only because Logitech is reasonably invested in the gaming space already and will probably push to have Astro innovating again.


----------



## Yethal

Maybe they'll finally move past Dolby Digital and adopt 7.1 LPCM (or even Atmos) as their new input standard. And add a digital (processed) output. And stop this 5-pin minijack nonsense

As for the PC37X discussion a few posts back, at $120 the price/performance ratio is incredible. Highly recommended. I may have to buy a shorter cable for it though, I don't think Sennheiser considered coffin-apartment owners as their primary demographic back when they designed the headset.


----------



## Harrywang88

Hi.  I'm looking to get new headphones purely for gaming. Currently I have the suplerlux 681 but now that I have some money I'd like to upgrade to something more expensive.  

Looking at the reviews the best for gaming seem to be the akg k7xx or the sennheiser 598s.  Out of these 2 which is better for sound whoring?  I won't be using an amp or anything like that.  Just plugging into my computer.  

Also i'm not much of an audiophile and would the jump from the 681 be a big jump? Will i be able to hear differences and have a bigger sound stage?


----------



## rudyae86

Off topic: So I'm wondering, what happened to the deals thread?


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Off topic: So I'm wondering, what happened to the deals thread?


Probably got lost during the transition to New Head-Fi.


----------



## AxelCloris

rudyae86 said:


> Off topic: So I'm wondering, what happened to the deals thread?


Something happened? I just checked it and it's still there.



Yethal said:


> Probably got lost during the transition to New Head-Fi.


No threads were lost during the transition. The threads and reviews making the transition completely was our number one priority.


----------



## rudyae86 (Jul 18, 2017)

AxelCloris said:


> Something happened? I just checked it and it's still there.
> 
> 
> No threads were lost during the transition. The threads and reviews making the transition completely was our number one priority.




Well it's not showing up on my subscribed threads...that's why I was asking. Hmmm something did go wrong then if the thread still around. Could you please give me a link to it? I can't seem to find it...

Edit: Nevermind. Found it lol


----------



## Evshrug

Hey guys! Who is rocking the Destiny 2 beta?
The story is only one mission, but it seems promising with cool stepieces, NPCs fighting with you and voice actors getting their feathers ruffled, brief mid-mission cutscene to transition to a new setting, and seamless "Oh look, there's another real player who joined my fight and just revived me, helping out with this tough part" matchmaking in part of the level.
The strike is cool, I was able to explore some extra part of the environment near the beginning that wasn't part of the main path, there was funny voice acting (Milk falls! I wonder who this split-personality "Failsafe" AI is?), cool environmental hazards and man cannons, and the boss fight had multiple stages which unfortunately made the fight pretty long (death means going back to the first phase) but can still be commended for having interesting mechanics and progression rather than just simply feeling like a bullet sponge.

The guns have a very Halo 3 feel for me... not face-meltingly fast TTK, but their bloom, recoil, and optimal range behaviors are pretty easy to predict, and the shorter range guns are about as easy to use from the hip as they are ADS so they feel extra-fluid in a fight.

Played with the Sennheiser PC37X.


----------



## Yethal

Completely forgot about it. Guess it's time to save the Earth again. Is the gameplay less repetitive than Destiny 1?


----------



## Evshrug

I mean, the beta has only one mission (which you can't replay unless you start a new character, so... less repetitive!) and one strike. It's a beta. And there's nothing to suggest you won't be able to replay missions on the full release.

However, it seems like they're committing to a story thread, improving on what they learned in the Taken King expansion. Also, that strike has a fair amount of variety for fighting – there are sniper cliffs, fights on a plain pocketed with craters and a three-way battle between guardians, Cabal (and their new war dogs), and Vex, then there's a really easy jumping "puzzle" followed by some man cannons that drops you into a fight, a "storm the base" segment with three sub bosses, a fight where you have to look down and shoot dudes (or end up fighting melee guys at close range), a boss fight that changes the special attacks and the arena setting... only one short horde mode section that I didn't even realize was a "horde mode"  section till I thought back just now, because after a few minutes you can leave before killing all the enemies. Pretty varied, more fun than the majority of Destiny strikes and had more than a little Raid DNA in it.

Graphics are still, you know, 1080p and mostly pretty similar, but there seems to be more things done with light reflections


----------



## Yethal

Sounds like Destiny may live up to it's "console WoW" potential. How are the sound cues?


----------



## Makikou

Hey!

Anyone got tips for choosing a wireless headset for the PS4? 
LucidSound LS30's look very nice at affordable price (139,99€). Also seem to work on PC even though there's no official support.

Any experience on LucidSounds or any other recommendations in the max. 150€ price range?


----------



## callizer

I just wrote a Sennheiser PC37X review; it might be relevant here. Link to thread


*BACKGROUND*

I’m a music lover and a PC gamer. I mainly play Dota 2, Civilization, JRPGs, a few top down RPGs, and some 3D RPGs. I only play a limited amount of first person games, mainly Counter Strike, Borderlands, and some RPGs like Shadow of Mordor. Therefore, I don’t put too much importance on virtual surround sound for gaming. I’m looking for a setup that’s immersive, comfortable, and has a decent microphone. I’ve tried ModMic setup before but I really hate dealing with the cable mess that comes with it.

*PREFERENCES/BIASES*

I like a relatively neutral sounding system that slightly leans to the warm side. My favourite pair of headphones is LCD-X for its amazing bass and energetic sound. On a lazy Sunday, I like to put on my Fitear TG334 to listen to some slow acoustic songs.

My usual listening gear is usually Onkyo DP X1 > Chord Hugo > Liquid Carbon > LCD-X.


*AESTHETICS*

http://imgur.com/a/cyNvZ

This is a low-profile headset. If you like bright colours, you might not like it as it’s in “boring” black. I think the simplicity appeals to most adult gamers though.


*BUILD QUALITY*

The housing of PC37X, as far as I can tell, is entirely made of plastic. It gives the advantage of being really light but some of you probably will raise the question of its durability. I’ve tried stretching the headband and I’m happy to report that I did not hear a squeak. It’s plastic, but the good kind of plastic.

*COMFORT*

Out of the box, the velour earpads are stiffer than what I’m used to. The clamping force is also a bit strong, but not to the point it makes me uncomfortable. The pads are quite breathable but my earlobes do get a little bit hot after some time. Overall, I’m rating the comfort as “good enough for 6 hours of gaming without taking it off”.


*SOUND*

I’m testing the headphone mainly from Asus Xonar U7 MKII and Onkyo DP-X1. Bear in mind that this is a subjective review as I did not use any measurement gears and did not check the frequency response (if there’s any) before writing this review.

*BASS*

The bass is probably the one that threw me off the most. It has a lot of quantity in the upper bass and sounds very rich, up to the point it’s almost veiled. After giving it a listen for quite some time, the sound grew on me. The PC37X probably has one of the most controlled and tightest bass for a pair below $200. Heck, my Sennheiser PXC550 (MSRP AU$630/Retail $400-$500) has worse control over the bass and a bit loose. It’s not perfect, however, as the bass on PC37X didn’t extend very low; I couldn’t hear a satisfying thump in the sub-bass region.

*MIDRANGE*

The midrange is the star of this headset. It’s intimate and detailed, making it a great (dare I say perfect?) pair for gaming. This is coming from someone who uses Fitear TG334 regularly for portable listening; it is an IEM which is known to have one of the best midrange. The vocals are great in music and the footsteps are great in games.

*TREBLE*

Depending on your preference, the treble is probably the weakness of this pair. It has a very relaxed treble, _too_ relaxed for my liking. It makes it a laid back pair that will not pierce your ear during long listening or gaming sessions, but some folks might prefer some extra oomph in the treble region.


*SOUNDSTAGE AND IMAGING*

To put it shortly, it’s decently wide but lacks depth. Imaging is very good _for its price_, but your HD800S is, without a question, vastly superior. This is the area that I think the PC37X does well, but doesn’t really punch above its class.


*OVERALL PRESENTATION (TL;DR)*

Laid back sound with rich bass and intimate midrange. Very good soundstage and imaging for its price.


*AMPLIFIER MATCHING*

50 Ω impedance and 116 dB SPL/mW, so it’s quite easy to drive. My Xonar U7 MKII distorts the sound at very high volume, while my Onkyo DP-X1 drives it without any problems. If you’re getting this as an all-rounder (music, movies, gaming etc), I recommend getting a decently powerful desktop amplifier like Schiit Magni 2. If you only use this almost exclusively for gaming (like me), your motherboard or USB soundcard like the U7 is perfectly fine.

I recommend against pairing these headphones with a tube amplifier as it might sound too dark. Analytical solid-state amps will be the best match.

*GAMING PERFORMANCE*

In FPS games like CS:GO, the sound is really immersive thanks to its rich bass while still being accurate thanks to its very good midrange. In RPGs like Skyrim, the dialogue is very clear thanks to (once again) its midrange. For Dota 2, well, it’s hard to sound bad in Dota 2.

I can’t comment on HRTF/VSS as it depends on your DSP Engine and/or the game’s built-in sound engine.

*MICROPHONE*

I expected a good quality microphone, but instead I got a great one (for a headset). This is the best headset microphone I’ve ever used bar none. Yes, that includes ModMic.




*CLOSING THOUGHTS*

If your listening rig is separated from your gaming rig like me, you might be looking for an affordable headset. At US$120 (cost me around AU$170 including shipping), the PC37X should be on the very top of your list. This is one of my very few audio purchases that I made without auditioning it in person, yet I don’t regret it one bit.

[+] Rich, controlled, and tight bass for immersive sound

[+] Detailed and intimate midrange for competitive advantage in games

[+] Great microphone

[+] Great value for money

[-] The “Sennheiser Veil” is present. Too much upper bass and does not extend very low at the sub-bass region.

[-] The treble is too relaxed


----------



## scanferr

Is the Superlux HMC681 any good?


----------



## Harrywang88

I been using a superlux hd681 for gaming. I never got expensive headphones for before but recently I purchased a k7xx for its wide soundstage. The k7xx definitely has a wider soundstage however when playing some games it's really quiet compared to my hd681 at max volume.  Is it because I need an amp or do i need to 'break in' my headphones?  I'm not a headphones enthusiast so right now I can't seem to tell much of a difference from my k7xx or my 681 other then the wider soundstage.  

Anyways if I were to buy an amp do I need anything else like extra wires?

Can I still have my speakers plugged into my my motherboard with the amp? As in if I want to use my speakers do I have to plug my speakers to the BACK of my computer just so I can use them instead of the amp? or how does it work?  I don't always want to be using my headphones for sound, only when gaming. 

I'm thinking of getting the o2 mayflower or the schiit magni 2


----------



## Yethal

Yeah, it's probably because of lack of amping. You can run 3.5mm to rca cable from the mobo to the magni and then plug the speakers into the preamp outs of the magni.


----------



## Sig Fig

Apologies in advance- after a couple months of absorbing all of the contributed information in this thread, I am still ignorant enough that I am not searching for the right terms.

*Would someone be able to provide an technical explanation or reference as to why VSS can be passed through RCA?*  Not doubting this thread and I'm sure it's pretty basic stuff- just trying to educate myself.

Xbox/Mixamp user, mostly play Halo.  I recently purchased a Magni 2 Uber and a K7XX and am incorporating them into my setup.  
Xbox --> optical --> Mixamp --> *3.5 to RCA* --> Magni --> headphones.  
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how Dolby or Windows Sonic isn't lost when split by the RCA into the Magni.  Thanks for any and all input.


----------



## Yethal

Sig Fig said:


> Apologies in advance- after a couple months of absorbing all of the contributed information in this thread, I am still ignorant enough that I am not searching for the right terms.
> 
> *Would someone be able to provide an technical explanation or reference as to why VSS can be passed through RCA?*  Not doubting this thread and I'm sure it's pretty basic stuff- just trying to educate myself.
> 
> ...


It's a regular stereo signal and can be passed through the same connections as non-vss signal. VSS doesn't actually come from different directions around your head, it just fools your brain into thinking that it does.


----------



## Sig Fig

Yethal said:


> It's a regular stereo signal and can be passed through the same connections as non-vss signal. VSS doesn't actually come from different directions around your head, it just fools your brain into thinking that it does.



Simple enough- my initial thought was the act of splitting VSS would distort any of the processing done.  Thanks for the clarification. A small part of me was worried I would spend months with incorrect inputs, none the wiser.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Dumb question. Can you use an amp on the duelshock controller?


----------



## Azurik

themrmikemcd said:


> Dumb question. Can you use an amp on the duelshock controller?


Yes you can. Anything from Fiio like the e12, a5, a6 or a1 would do. or the little topping ones.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Azurik said:


> Yes you can. Anything from Fiio like the e12, a5, a6 or a1 would do. or the little topping ones.


Awesome! Thanks. My mix amp is giving me issues and wondered if it would work or..blow it out or something ha.


----------



## cskippy

Just remember that you'll be amplifying any noise in the signal as well.  I used to run my mixamp into my headphone amp with the line out but got tired of the hum/hiss and noise that was always present.


----------



## themrmikemcd

cskippy said:


> Just remember that you'll be amplifying any noise in the signal as well.  I used to run my mixamp into my headphone amp with the line out but got tired of the hum/hiss and noise that was always present.


Good point. Ill have to see how it goes until I can get a new mixamp. Thanks!


----------



## AxelCloris

Apparently Plantronics has announced a wireless gaming headset with built-in Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I definitely want to give these a try, but I'm skeptical. Plus I think they're kinda ugly.


 
http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/rig-800lx

Still, the design shows some promise that I don't normally feel with headsets. Suspension headband design, deep (looking) pads, lightweight (assuming) plastic design, 24 hour battery... But when all is said and done, what matters most is the sound.  I've owned Plantronics gear in the past and it was adequate. Hopefully they can do better than that this time around.


----------



## cskippy

That design is almost good but then they went try hard mode.


----------



## illram

Why must these companies mercilessly beat their gaming gear with the ugly stick?


----------



## AxelCloris

The gaming industry revolves around extreme design. Chairs? Racing bucket seats. Mice? Sharp pocket knives. Keyboards? Spaceship command centers. Heck, even the "gaming foods" are extreme. This Plantronics looks to be no exception.

I want a gaming company to show us class and thoughtful design in their entire gaming line. Sennheiser seems closest with their GSX 1000 and PC37X.


----------



## bandit390 (Jul 26, 2017)

Any suggestions for something comfortable for a person with a big head?

*Requirements*:
- $100-$400
- Gaming, but I'm not competitive
- Immersion/Surround sound
- Only used on PC
- I'm okay with having to use an amp, but not an expensive amp

*The ones below are too tight on my head:*
- Sennheiser game one
- Logitech g933

*Receiving tomorrow:*
- Sennheiser 598

*Possible suggestions, anything else?*
- Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250
- AKG K702
- ATH-AD900x


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> The gaming industry revolves around extreme design. Chairs? Racing bucket seats. Mice? Sharp pocket knives. Keyboards? Spaceship command centers. Heck, even the "gaming foods" are extreme. This Plantronics looks to be no exception.
> 
> I want a gaming company to show us class and thoughtful design in their entire gaming line. Sennheiser seems closest with their GSX 1000 and PC37X.


Audio Technica has a few elegant headsets as well.


----------



## mbyrnes

bandit390 said:


> Any suggestions for something comfortable for a person with a big head?
> 
> *Requirements*:
> - $100-$400
> ...



I would personally look for something that has some low end presence, as I think this makes it more immersive. The AKG 702 and ATH-AD900x are both great with soundstage, but for me, left me wanting in the bass department. The DT990 are very immersive, and if only used for gaming the sharp highs aren't as much of a problem. I love them for gaming, hate them for most music. The DT990 would require an amp, and something like the Schiit Magni 2 should be plenty. You would only need the Uber version if you planned on using it as a pre-amp for powered speakers.

I actually really like my Fostex TH-X00 Ebony for gaming (Massdrop has the TH-X00 Mahogany dropping right now for $399). Tons of controlled bass, an average soundstage (which for me is worth the trade off for how immersive they are), and the highs are really good. They are also really great for music. Only downside is the cable isn't removable and is thick. I modded TH-X00 to 2.5mm cable adaptors, which required modding the cups and a few other things. No big deal, but many would freak out doing this to a $500 headphone, lol.

The Monoprice M1060 is another option at $300, it is a 110mm planar driver with great bass and mids. I modded mine with Audeze Vegan pads (which have vanished from the world). I didn't listen much to them stock, but they are really great how I have them setup for gaming.

These are a few options, there are plenty more. Competitive gaming I would want less bass, to sound whore as much as possible. If I am just playing to enjoy myself, I always reach for a bass heavy can to really feel the explosions.


----------



## Azurik (Jul 26, 2017)

themrmikemcd said:


> Good point. Ill have to see how it goes until I can get a new mixamp. Thanks!


Just keep the mixamp volume around 3/4 and adjust the rest via amp. You shouldn't have much clipping/ distortion. If you still do, lower the mixamp not amp volume


----------



## scanferr

Guys, what do you recommend around 40-50€? I was looking at the Superlux HMC681 (40€) or the HD668B (30€). Are they any good for gaming, music, movies, etc? Is there anything better around this price point?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Hell of a long thread!

I have a Reasliser on order to use for movies and gaming.
I will need to use closed headphones to keep the sound from leaking too much.
They don't need to be super-isolating with no sound leaking at all but they can't be as loud for my environment as open headphones as well. 
For that matter any closed headphones will do.
I am considering a top pair of closed cans as I want to use them for music as well.

But most important is a big soundsatge/positioning of course as surround sound through the Reasliser will be the main use for these phones.
So what would be the best closed phones for surround with good positioning?
Some phones I have or am considering are: Sony MDR-Z1R, Denon AH-D7200, Fostex TH-900, Pioneer SE-Monitor5 and ZMF Eikon.
Any advice?


----------



## mbyrnes

AppleheadMay said:


> Hell of a long thread!
> 
> I have a Reasliser on order to use for movies and gaming.
> I will need to use closed headphones to keep the sound from leaking too much.
> ...



Well a few of the headphones you have listed aren't closed. The Denon, Fostex, and ZMF are all semi-closed, and they will leak sound. I have the Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and they leak sound pretty bad IMO. This headphone is VERY similar to the Denon and Fostex, as they are all essentially cousins of each other with very similar designs.

If I was looking for a closed headphone right now, I would buy the Mr. Speakers Aeon ($799). They have a lot of the tech that is in the Ether C and Ether C Flow, and cost WAY less. Currently the Aeon is on the Wall of Fame at Innerfidelity, knocking the Ethers off the wall of fame. It would require an amp to get the most out of them, which the Realizer should provide with it's internal, powerful amp. Another I would look at is the Audeze LCD-XC ($1799). I have not heard either of the two, but these are probably the best, actual closed, headphones on the market. There is also the Beyerdynamic DT1770 ($599), but I don't think these will compete with the Aeon for $200 more.

On a side note, While I use open or semi-open headphones, I think soundstage size is dramatically over stated here at Head-Fi. There are a few designs which truly sound huge, like the Sennheiser HD800/HD800S, Hifiman HE-1000, etc. My Hifiman HE-X have a huge soundstage compared to most designs I have heard. For gaming and movies though, the differences to me are subtle at best. I don't feel like I am missing all that much if I use my Fostex or Monoprice M1060s instead. There is a difference, but very few games IMO take advantage with their sound design, and virtual surround does a good job of simulating a large soundstage. Also realize that the A16 you are getting should be able to make a closed headphone sound more open. I personally would grab the Aeon, save yourself a grand, and enjoy a very well made headphone.

I wish you the best of luck, as closed back headphones just aren't as common as open or semi-open. There are literally a handful of TOTL headphones that are closed. Most reviews talk about sound leakage, so you can get an idea of how bad each headphone is. IMO most semi-open designs leak almost as bad as a fully open design.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mbyrnes said:


> Well a few of the headphones you have listed aren't closed. The Denon, Fostex, and ZMF are all semi-closed, and they will leak sound. I have the Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and they leak sound pretty bad IMO. This headphone is VERY similar to the Denon and Fostex, as they are all essentially cousins of each other with very similar designs.
> 
> If I was looking for a closed headphone right now, I would buy the Mr. Speakers Aeon ($799). They have a lot of the tech that is in the Ether C and Ether C Flow, and cost WAY less. Currently the Aeon is on the Wall of Fame at Innerfidelity, knocking the Ethers off the wall of fame. It would require an amp to get the most out of them, which the Realizer should provide with it's internal, powerful amp. Another I would look at is the Audeze LCD-XC ($1799). I have not heard either of the two, but these are probably the best, actual closed, headphones on the market. There is also the Beyerdynamic DT1770 ($599), but I don't think these will compete with the Aeon for $200 more.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your reply mbyrnes.

I do wonder, is semi-closed actually a design choice? I always considered them to be closed phones with less isolation.
But something like a Fostex or Denon is actually isolating enough for me.

The Realiser's amp is actually powerful? Wasn't sure about that so I had been thinking of routing it's output to one of my headphone amps but that probably won't be necessary then.

I was also under the impression that the device that creates the surround sound would be largely responsible for the soundstage and the phones would matter less. Yet Smyth recommends the HD800 or a Stax for their spatial sound but comfort as well. I hope I get mine soon so I can experiment, has been over a year since I ordered now.


----------



## mbyrnes

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks for your reply mbyrnes.
> 
> I do wonder, is semi-closed actually a design choice? I always considered them to be closed phones with less isolation.
> But something like a Fostex or Denon is actually isolating enough for me.
> ...



I think semi closed/open is a similar choice to sealed or ported in the speaker world. Each design (open, semi, closed) all have trade offs. Open makes it difficult to get good bass output, closed easy, and semi somewhere in-between. The Fostex I have remind me of a ported design, where you essentially get port noise (leakage). Obviously they have great bass, so I like the design choice. Semi open usually has a smaller sound field, better bass, and mids can vary, but they're usually good. 

The Realizer outputs over a Watt into a few of the lower impedances. If you have nicer amps, by all means use them. I would try it both ways (internal and external), and see if it makes a difference. 

I think they chose the HD800 because it does have a huge sound stage, is very popular in the $1K range. Kind of similar to the HD650, where most people have heard it if auditioning Headphones in that price range. I don't think it will matter, as most good headphones should sound awesome. Hopefully they start shipping them soon so you can report back!


----------



## kellte2

AppleheadMay said:


> Hell of a long thread!
> 
> I have a Reasliser on order to use for movies and gaming.
> I will need to use closed headphones to keep the sound from leaking too much.
> ...



Consider the Aeon or Ether C Flow. I have the latter and it is mind meltingly good. I've read that the Aeon is a little less neutral and potentially more fun, but the Ether has a much larger soundstage and increased resolution.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mbyrnes said:


> I think semi closed/open is a similar choice to sealed or ported in the speaker world. Each design (open, semi, closed) all have trade offs. Open makes it difficult to get good bass output, closed easy, and semi somewhere in-between. The Fostex I have remind me of a ported design, where you essentially get port noise (leakage). Obviously they have great bass, so I like the design choice. Semi open usually has a smaller sound field, better bass, and mids can vary, but they're usually good.
> 
> The Realizer outputs over a Watt into a few of the lower impedances. If you have nicer amps, by all means use them. I would try it both ways (internal and external), and see if it makes a difference.
> 
> I think they chose the HD800 because it does have a huge sound stage, is very popular in the $1K range. Kind of similar to the HD650, where most people have heard it if auditioning Headphones in that price range. I don't think it will matter, as most good headphones should sound awesome. Hopefully they start shipping them soon so you can report back!



Thanks. Yep, hopefully they ship soon, I ordered about a year ago.
I just traded my Z1R for a HD800S so that should be a good pairing.
And I also have a few other nice headphones to try, the LA-900 is no slouch when it comes to soundstage either and the bass goes really deep which might be just as important.
Thinking about the ZMF Eikon and Atticus as well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Will the Massdrop H4XX spark the interest of this MLE guy? It'll be 169 Dollars too.


----------



## lenroot77

Fegefeuer said:


> Will the Massdrop H4XX spark the interest of this MLE guy? It'll be 169 Dollars too.



First thing I thought of when I saw the email!


----------



## AxelCloris

Dunno if they'll bring MLE back to the forums, but I'm sure several of you will want to pick them up. I spent about 15 minutes with them on Saturday and I'm tempted to grab a pair for myself.


----------



## k@non

Hello everyone I am new to the forum and I have tried to follow the topic from the beginning, currently and for the comments followed in the subject, I have bought xonar stx and beyer 990 pro.
The truth is I would like to ask for your help for the theme of the configuration for games and music.
I have disabled the audio driver of the board, and I have installed the Uni xonar driver.
The main games I use are Bf1, Bf4, CS: GO and one another shooter although lately paladins but only very occasionally.

In electronic music and some rock the majority in format Flac or Mp3 320 kps.

Another thing I would like some other option than the zalman mc1, since I incredibly feature the cable of my AD 700x, a little more and breaks it, I do not want to get modmic since the price discourages me.

regards

PS: sorry for my English


----------



## Yethal (Aug 2, 2017)

Fegefeuer said:


> Will the Massdrop H4XX spark the interest of this MLE guy? It'll be 169 Dollars too.



_Old headphone reviewer comes back from retirement for one last job...
_


----------



## mbyrnes

I wonder if any of the old guard is in on the 4XX drop. I'm out, I just don't have a need for another Headphone. I have too many already, lol. 

I don't know if Massdrop fixed their 4XX webpage, because it literally had nothing on the Planar drivers at all. Just says Planar drivers, no specs, size, etc. No reviews of them yet that I know of. That definitely would give me reason to pause, as that is weird, even for Massdrop. Hopefully they update their description.


----------



## illram

Apparently, HiFiman doesn't want Massdrop to reveal the specific drivers used, because they don't want retailers complaining. That's what they are saying anyway. 

I have a 400i so I don't think I will be getting in on this. Tyll seems to think it looks like the 400i, others think it looks like 400s. If it's a 400i or close to it, at that price that's a really good deal. I have the 400i and used them for a while for gaming and they were really, really good. My favorite cans until I got the HE-560.


----------



## mbyrnes

illram said:


> Apparently, HiFiman doesn't want Massdrop to reveal the specific drivers used, because they don't want retailers complaining. That's what they are saying anyway.
> 
> I have a 400i so I don't think I will be getting in on this. Tyll seems to think it looks like the 400i, others think it looks like 400s. If it's a 400i or close to it, at that price that's a really good deal. I have the 400i and used them for a while for gaming and they were really, really good. My favorite cans until I got the HE-560.



I have the Monoprice M1060s and love them. I did a pad swap to Vegan Audeze pads and paper towel mod, and they're really impressive for under $400 total. I just don't think the 4XX will compete with them, so they'll get little head time. Hopefully I can check a pair out soon at a meet. It's an insanely good price for a Planar, but I just don't need them. I currently use my HE-X V2, M1060, and TH-X00 Ebony exclusively, most of my headphones go unused. Don't see where these would fit in my collection, and probably never be used outside the first week or two. I hope they're really good though, everyone should own at least one Planar headphone.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> I wonder if any of the old guard is in on the 4XX drop. I'm out, I just don't have a need for another Headphone. I have too many already, lol.
> 
> I don't know if Massdrop fixed their 4XX webpage, because it literally had nothing on the Planar drivers at all. Just says Planar drivers, no specs, size, etc. No reviews of them yet that I know of. That definitely would give me reason to pause, as that is weird, even for Massdrop. Hopefully they update their description.




Probably not. My latest audio purchase turned out to be the beginning of another spending spree, not the end I hoped it would be. By the time I'm done pimping my portable setup out there won't be any HifiMans left to buy.


----------



## illram (Aug 3, 2017)

Yeah collecting is addictive and that is the only reason I would consider buying these. Since I just put down money on a Realiser, and am about the plop down some moola on a used HD800s, AND am considering buying the Massdrop Chord Mojo.... I'm just going to have to pass. I have limits, you know?


----------



## mbyrnes

Yeah I just bought a bunch of Schiit (Saga, Vidar, Eitr, and Mani), still need a Turntable, but may wait for Sol if I don't get one for my birthday. Still recovering from my Vizio P75-C1 purchase about a month ago, and stretched the budget for the Schiit because I'm turning 40 next week. Love being single and no children! I may have to buy a Smyth Research A16 at the pre-order price because it is much cheaper than regular price. I hate this hobby as much as I love it. Very expensive to stay current and content. Headphones are at the back of the priority list, as I truly love a few I currently own, and don't feel I am missing anything. Hoping the new Schiit really improves my 2 channel system, as it is on almost all day long (TV sound goes through it).


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 6, 2017)

Wow, this is a monster thread. I've been through the first post, which is obviously great, but it's quite old now. I'll work my way though the last chunks, but in the meantime, a few tips would be handy:

My old faithful TurtleBeach XP 500s have snapped in half, so I need a replacement. The main requirement is for them to be good at FPS games like R6. I'm not looking for a 'fun' sound, I'd like to hear where the enemy is.
I can see recommendations for the AD700, some AKGs, the Fidelio X2 etc. Presumably I'd need to do a mic mod for those? And could I run them from the xbox controller and use the Xbox Dolby Atmos, or would I also need to buy an amp? (that's if the amp from my XP500 isn't suitable).

Since some gaming headsets boost frequencies so you can hear footsteps and the like better (eg TB's Superhuman hearing), could they be a better option than traditional headphones?
Wireless would be a bonus (a wire just from the controller is practically wireless), but I'd like to see what's best first.

As well as the traditional headphones, some gaming options would be:
Turtle Beach Elite Pro & Tactical Audio Controller (£230 the pair). Wired.
Turtle Beach Stealth 600 (£90). I don't need the BT that the 700s come with. Wireless.
LucidSound LS35x - not out until December. Wireless.
Sennheiser Game One (£190). Just a wire from the controller.
Audio Technica ADG1x (£269 closed, £300 open). Mic included. Not sure if they can be driven (enough) from the controller or not.

If they're just not as good for competitive gaming, please say 

Thanks

Oh, I have a dragonfly back if that's any use.


----------



## Yethal

You can overcome lack of power output by attaching a portable amp to the controller. 3.5mm mic/headphone splitter > 3.5mm cable to amp > amp to headphones. If the built in Dolby Atmos is actually good (haven't heard it myself) then that's pretty much all you need. Check out Massdrop PC37X. It's $120 and it's really good for the price.


----------



## Triggaaar

Yethal said:


> You can overcome lack of power output by attaching a portable amp to the controller. 3.5mm mic/headphone splitter > 3.5mm cable to amp > amp to headphones.


Thanks I'll check that out. It does sound like a pain though.


> If the built in Dolby Atmos is actually good (haven't heard it myself) then that's pretty much all you need.


I'm not sure if it's good yet, but I assume it will be. You'll just get the game sounds though, you won't get boosted footsteps etc, as I presume you do with the popular console gaming headsets.


> Check out Massdrop PC37X. It's $120 and it's really good for the price.


Thanks. I've got to get it to the UK and pay tax, but that still shouldn't be too bad. I'll have a look through the reviews. Are they any better for gaming than the TB Elite Pro & Astro A50?


----------



## Yethal

Triggaaar said:


> Thanks I'll check that out. It does sound like a pain though.
> I'm not sure if it's good yet, but I assume it will be. You'll just get the game sounds though, you won't get boosted footsteps etc, as I presume you do with the popular console gaming headsets.
> Thanks. I've got to get it to the UK and pay tax, but that still shouldn't be too bad. I'll have a look through the reviews. Are they any better for gaming than the TB Elite Pro & Astro A50?


The boosted footsteps thing is actually just an equalizer. Can be done with any other amp that offers EQ capabilities. Dunno how it compares to the A50 as I haven't heard them but I do know that for $120 it's the best bang for the buck on the market. You may want to buy the shorter cable though, the PC37X ships with a 3m long cable by default.


----------



## Triggaaar

Thank you for the advice.


Yethal said:


> The boosted footsteps thing is actually just an equalizer. Can be done with any other amp that offers EQ capabilities.


Yes I understand, some gaming headsets will have those tweaks done.

I'm just reading the massdrop review/discussion thread. Nice review from you I see 


> I do know that for $120 it's the best bang for the buck on the market.


I certainly believe you. Can you get anything better for $220?


> You may want to buy the shorter cable though, the PC37X ships with a 3m long cable by default.


Is that shorter cable available on the massdrop, or somewhere else?

I see that the headphones are 50 ohm. Is it fine to use them straight from the Xbox controller, or is it worth buying an amp etc (if so, which one)?


----------



## Yethal

Triggaaar said:


> Thank you for the advice.
> Yes I understand, some gaming headsets will have those tweaks done.
> 
> I'm just reading the massdrop review/discussion thread. Nice review from you I see
> ...


For $220 you could get Massdrop x HiFiMan HE4XX, their Minimic and there still would be some cash left lol

Or you could just buy the $20 Ketdirect microphone and then pair it up with Sennheiser HD5X8 series headphone, or Philips SHP9500. The possibilities are endlesshttps://www.amazon.com/adapter-Microphone-Universal-Android-headphone/dp/B01HB9N6V2

Just remember that there are two versions of this microphone, the 2.5mm one (suitable for Sennheiser 5XX and Audio Technica MX0X series) and the 3.5mm one (suitable for everything else that has detachable cable).


----------



## Triggaaar

Yethal said:


> For $220 you could get Massdrop x HiFiMan HE4XX, their Minimic and there still would be some cash left lol


Would they be better at FPS from a competitive point of view?


> The possibilities are endless


I know   The PC37x are clearly a great choice at $120. I'm just wondering if they're basically as good as anything at $220, or if they're only good compared to the competition under say $150.


----------



## mbyrnes

The PC


Triggaaar said:


> Would they be better at FPS from a competitive point of view?
> I know   The PC37x are clearly a great choice at $120. I'm just wondering if they're basically as good as anything at $220, or if they're only good compared to the competition under say $150.



The PC37X is EXTREMELY easy to drive. 116db/MW, which means they can be driven to extremely loud levels from weak sources such as a controller or phone. The Included mic is also very good. They sound very good and can play music very well also (They are MUCH better than the PC360 I used to own). The Hifiman 4XX will need an amp, and mic. You could always grab the PC37X, and then save up a little, and grab another headphone down the line (with a proper amp and or DAC (Creative X7 is a great choice for gaming and music, with a powerful built in amp, $300 on sale). The PC37X Is a great starting point, that is about as low cost as possible for great sound. Obviously spending more can get you greater results, but almost all headphones will need a decent amp to drive them well. I would also check the used section as you can sometimes save a good deal of money going used. I was able to pickup a tube amp for half price with a bunch of very good NOS tubes. I also grabbed Hifiman Edition X (HEX) V2 for $400 less than retail.

One nice thing is if you do grab the PC37X, many of us own them and could help lead you to your next headphone options once you know what you want to improve about the PC37X. It is great when you own a headphone that several of us in this thread have used or own. So for example, you want more deep bass and maybe more treble, it helps us point out models that may be right up your alley. Good luck and I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the price/performance ratio that the Senn PC37X provides.


----------



## Triggaaar

mbyrnes said:


> The PC37X is EXTREMELY easy to drive. 116db/MW, which means they can be driven to extremely loud levels from weak sources such as a controller or phone.


Thanks.


> The Included mic is also very good. They sound very good and can play music very well also (They are MUCH better than the PC360 I used to own)


Much better at everything, or was that comment referring to music?


> You could always grab the PC37X, and then save up a little, and grab another headphone down the line (with a proper amp and or DAC (Creative X7 is a great choice for gaming and music, with a powerful built in amp, $300 on sale). The PC37X Is a great starting point, that is about as low cost as possible for great sound.


I really don't want to have the PC37X as a low cost option while saving up, if there's something better I'd rather go for that now. I don't want it for music, I already have an NFB-11 and HD650 for that (in a different room).



> Obviously spending more can get you greater results


So what would be good for gaming from $200 to $400? (inc headphone, mic, amp if req)



> One nice thing is if you do grab the PC37X, many of us own them and could help lead you to your next headphone options once you know what you want to improve about the PC37X.


If I had the PC37X now, I already know what I'd want to improve - I'd want it to have better separation/imaging for locating enemies.


----------



## Frederik Kromann

Hello, i might be stupid to ask you this or maybe it has been answered in the 2600 pages before me but i havent read them all. i am a huge fps gamer, positioning placement is very important for me. and i want to get the best that i can possibly afford. i have no problem with buying and amp a mic and some headphones. what would be some of the best options for me, when i want something that can give me an edge in competetive counterstrike.
right now i have the beyerdynamic 990 pros powered with a røde nt usb microphone but it has some sort of weird static sound or constant tone that comes and goes. the beyerdynamic 990 has very good directional but i am not sure they are the pair for me, i have also looked at the sennheiser hd600 or the hd 599 some audio technica, but i wanted to ask for your opinion what would be the best solution and which headphones would you recomend and say is the best if we are talking inside the hd600 price range? i know the amp will be beside that, but money isnt a problem.

i am looking forward to your answer. thank you


----------



## AppleheadMay

In the HD600 price range and money isn't a problem are two different things if you ask me.
If the latter is the case I think a Realiser with a HD800S won't be bad at all.


----------



## mbyrnes

Of my cheaper headphones, I would say the Monoprice M1060 is my favorite. Sadly, the Vegan Audeze pads are hard to find. Some love them stock, some change the pads out. It's a fun headphone with very good directional cues. Sound stage seems about right, not overly large, but good. Modding them is fun and pretty easy. I prefer Planar headphones for gaming these days. I'm $360 into them ($299 for the headphone, $60 for the pads). Definitely check out the M1060 thread. 

I do really like the DT990, and at $140 it is a steal IMO. They're just ok for music without EQ, but good sound stage and bass. They do require an amp to get the most out of them. 

The Creative Sound Blaster X7 is a really good DAC/amp/virtual surround sound system. Can go on sale for $299 regularly, Massdrop has it every few months. It has enough power to drive most headphones. Good thread here on it and all it can do. I prefer SBX over Dolby Headphone. 

The Massdrop Hifiman 4XX drop looks enticing, at $169, it's the cheapest way to get into planar sound. A few reviews exist, including Tyll at Innerfidelity. 

The first post of this thread covers tons of headphones, and MLE truly did a wonderful job writing good reviews. I have similar taste to him, so his recommendations follow mine the majority of the time. 

The best headphone surround is coming from Smyth Research and their A16. $1700 pre-order price, $2200 after the end of next month. This is by far the best surround sound for headphones. It supports Dolby Atmos through HDMI, and as gaming starts adding this, the A16 will be the only device capable of using it. It's an insane piece of gear for sure, but obviously price will rule it out for many. 

Sound whoring headphones like the AKG K702 (and it's siblings like the Massdrop K7XX at $200), have large sound stages, but lack in the fun department. Great for competitive gaming, as the bass levels are a little lower, so you can hear everything. 

I also really like my Massdrop TH-X00 Ebony ($500). The Mahogany version is $399 and very similar. Great bass and actually a pretty good gaming headphone. Sound stage is smaller, very immersive sound, and I have no issues hearing footsteps. Not the sound whoring ability of the AKG, but a great option for movies and single player games. 

Most of these headphones require a decent amp (Schiit Magni 2 would be fine), or the all in one Creative Sound Blaster X7, which is my top choice for surround gaming and movies. It can be upgraded several ways, which makes it a nice core component to build around. 

I'm pumped about rumors of COD MW2 becoming backwards compatible. Still to this day, I find it to be the best test for headphone gaming sound. Really hoping this rumor becomes fact, and the player base is large enough to play online again.


----------



## Frederik Kromann

AppleheadMay said:


> In the HD600 price range and money isn't a problem are two different things if you ask me.
> If the latter is the case I think a Realiser with a HD800S won't be bad at all.


the hd 800 is a little to much for my taste, i think i wrote it wrong, i meant that iwanted to pay the amount around the hd600 and then with the moeny isnt a problem i meant with the amp and mic besides it, that you shouldnt consider that in the price .
i have looked at the 800 and they look very nice but they are ridicoulous exspensive in denmark where i am from.
what do you think would be some of the best headphones if they should be in that price range and directional sound is a top priority?


----------



## Frederik Kromann

mbyrnes said:


> Of my cheaper headphones, I would say the Monoprice M1060 is my favorite. Sadly, the Vegan Audeze pads are hard to find. Some love them stock, some change the pads out. It's a fun headphone with very good directional cues. Sound stage seems about right, not overly large, but good. Modding them is fun and pretty easy. I prefer Planar headphones for gaming these days. I'm $360 into them ($299 for the headphone, $60 for the pads). Definitely check out the M1060 thread.
> 
> I do really like the DT990, and at $140 it is a steal IMO. They're just ok for music without EQ, but good sound stage and bass. They do require an amp to get the most out of them.
> 
> ...


Do you still think that the akg 702 is the best for positional audio and is the hd600 totally out of the race? what is the best on the market right now? in my price range?


----------



## AppleheadMay

The HD600/650 are among the best headphones for music but due to their smaller soundstage I wouldn't use them for surround applications.

From what I remember of my AKG K701/702 these would indeed be a better choice unless you need closed headphones.


----------



## AppleheadMay

One other thing you might consider is the kickstarter Ossc X. Nobody has heard these yet though.


----------



## Triggaaar

AppleheadMay said:


> a Realiser with a HD800S won't be bad at all.


I had thought a Realiser would be quite nice in Rainbow 6


----------



## Triggaaar

Frederik Kromann said:


> what do you think would be some of the best headphones if they should be in that price range and directional sound is a top priority?





Frederik Kromann said:


> Do you still think that the akg 702 is the best for positional audio and is the hd600 totally out of the race? what is the best on the market right now? in my price range?


I've had the same question, save the HD600 bit. The HD600 aren't what you want for competitive gaming. Have you read the first post in the thread?

And do you need a mic attached?
Without a mic, AKGs are good. I'd go for the 712 Pro over the 702. From this thread, the AD700 are clearly a good option for competitive gaming, but not for fun.
How they compare to the Sennheiser Game One/PC37X I don't know.


----------



## mbyrnes

I have the K702 65th anniversary, which is what the K712 is highly based off of. I also have the PC37X. 

The AKG sounds more open, but with less bass quantity (bass does go deep and clean, it's just recessed). Excellent sound whoring ability, but not a fun headphone. It isn't horrible, I'd bet much better than the 700s which seem to be the sound whoring God headphone, but not fun at all. I find them somewhat boring with music. They aren't terrible, but average at best. 

The PC37X has a good sound stage, but smaller than the AKGs. It's above average in this category, and perfectly fine for any type of gaming. The Senns don't have deep bass, but they are slightly boosted in midbass (the fun bass range). Bass doesn't bleed into the mids, which are slightly recessed. The highs aren't lacking in detail or range. Good for sound whoring, above average for sure. I do actually like these headphones for music. Because of the boost in the mid bass, they're exciting to listen to for a $120 headset. They sound way better than their price. 

I tend to like fun headphones that still excel at sound whoring. I do not like clinical and boring headphones. There are millions who do. 

I cannot recommend enough, about reading the first page of this thread. It is a wonderful guide and you'll learn a ton. It's truly a must read for any headphone gamer.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 10, 2017)

Mentions of a Massdrop HE-4XX brought me back, only to find that it's more likely based off the 400i NOT the 400 due to the bass roll off the graphs show. PFFFFT.

Call me when they find some OLD drivers to base a headphone off. Not like it matters, I still have an HE-400 anyways, lol.

I can't believe my last review was a year and a half ago. O_O

I thought about doing a surprise update out of nowhere, but there really hasn't been anything to warrant bringing me out of retirement, especially not out of pocket. I almost did buy some wireless JVC marshmallow IEMs though when my KSC75 broke recently. But then went and bought another Sportapro to gut the drivers for the clip ons.

I have been spending just a little more time using the HE400 lately. Before, all my headphones outside of my clip ons were put away basically for many, many months.


----------



## k@non

k@non said:


> Hello everyone I am new to the forum and I have tried to follow the topic from the beginning, currently and for the comments followed in the subject, I have bought xonar stx and beyer 990 pro.
> The truth is I would like to ask for your help for the theme of the configuration for games and music.
> I have disabled the audio driver of the board, and I have installed the Uni xonar driver.
> The main games I use are Bf1, Bf4, CS: GO and one another shooter although lately paladins but only very occasionally.
> ...



Hello again I do not know if someone could help me, I know I am very new but a recommendation would suit me.
By the way I have not read 2600 paguinas of the post but if the majority
regards


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Mentions of a Massdrop HE-4XX brought me back, only to find that it's more likely based off the 400i NOT the 400 due to the bass roll off the graphs show. PFFFFT.
> 
> Call me when they find some OLD drivers to base a headphone off. Not like it matters, I still have an HE-400 anyways, lol.
> 
> ...


Look who's back from the grave. So, how was purgatory?


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Mentions of a Massdrop HE-4XX brought me back


Holy cow, he lives!


Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can't believe my last review was a year and a half ago. O_O


You should remedy that. I could send you a headphone if you want to review something, I know a guy.


----------



## Triggaaar

mbyrnes said:


> I have the K702 65th anniversary, which is what the K712 is highly based off of. I also have the PC37X.


Perfect, you're just whom I've been looking for 

Following the ratings from the first page, how would you rate the K702 65th and the PC37X:
*Fun:
Competitive:
Comfort:*

Thanks


----------



## mbyrnes

Triggaaar said:


> Perfect, you're just whom I've been looking for
> 
> Following the ratings from the first page, how would you rate the K702 65th and the PC37X:
> *Fun:
> ...



I'll do my best!

PC37X:
Fun: 8.5. lots of mid bass which is the range that sounds like bass to most people. Doesn't extend deep. Explosions and other bass sounds are present, helping immersion. 

Competitive: 8.0-8.5. above average for sound stage, footsteps are clear, high frequencies are there, although slightly rolled off. Are not fatiguing after long sessions.

Comfort: 7.5-8.0. these fit my head well, are on the smaller side for a full sized headphone. Ear pads are comfortable for long sessions. Some may have less luck with large heads or ears. I personally have no issue after hours of wear. 

AKG K702 65th/K7XX/K712 (these are all very familiar sounding, K7XX I expect is slightly less, as good as the others).

Fun: 7.5- bass does extend deep, but bass feels about 3dB down overall. It's clear, detailed, but you won't feel explosions like better cans in this department. 

Competitive: 9.0- these are still one of the best I've ever heard for soundstage in gaming. These are very good at hearing footsteps, and directionality. They're relatively flat sounding, with a slight mid bass bump. Very open sounding, which helps with range detection. 

Comfort: 9.5. I really like the suspension system they use, and the flat headband (no bumps) of the 65th anniversary really float on my head with little clamping force on my ears. The bumps drop comfort a good bit (sooooooooo many versions of the K series). The large ear cups do not touch my ears, (65th Annie's are angled). Overall, a light headphone, which is great for long listening periods. 

Now these are my opinions, and the numbers aren't based on price. IMO cost shouldn't factor into the numbers. 

Clarity is not a factor in these numbers. Something like my Hifiman HE-X V2 is Crystal clear, but you'd expect that from a $1,300 planar headphone. Spending more on headphones for gaming, usually results in clarity and detail retrieval far better than sub $400-$500 options. Honestly you don't know what you're missing until you step up into the TOTL type Headphones. Ignorance is bliss in this case. Many of the expensive headphones are heavy, where these 2 are definitely much lighter than my more expensive cans. 

I prefer the PC37X for casual music listening. I do prefer a V shaped sound signature for music. Both are very good with surround gaming. One is better at competition and the other is more done while still being competitive.


----------



## Triggaaar

mbyrnes said:


> I'll do my best!


Fantastic, thank you, much appreciated.


> Now these are my opinions, and the numbers aren't based on price. IMO cost shouldn't factor into the numbers.


Agreed. Prices are subject to change anyway, so if the numbers separate from price, people can later see what's available and choose.

Shame the AKG aren't available with a mic.
The Audio-Technica ADG1X is, I wonder how that compares.


----------



## Tatertots

AppleheadMay said:


> In the HD600 price range and money isn't a problem are two different things if you ask me.
> If the latter is the case I think a Realiser with a HD800S won't be bad at all.



I haven't heard about the Realiser A16.  That looks amazing.  Thanks for posting.  I have a little over a month to decide if I want to pre-order.  I mean of course I want it but $1800 is a lot and then another $1800 for the HD800s.  Guess I wouldnt have to buy any audio equipment for a long time


----------



## AppleheadMay

Tatertots said:


> I haven't heard about the Realiser A16.  That looks amazing.  Thanks for posting.  I have a little over a month to decide if I want to pre-order.  I mean of course I want it but $1800 is a lot and then another $1800 for the HD800s.  Guess I wouldnt have to buy any audio equipment for a long time



I'd read a bit in the Realiser thread here and also some reviews from demos they did on shjows or reviews of the A8, quite a few people here have had that one. Seems to be one amazing device.

HD800S comes up for sale used here at about $1200. The Realiser works well with any headphone acoording to Smyth but they recommend a HD800 for the soundsatge and comfort. I figured the HD800S should be better still since it has more bass. I think my LA-900 should do well also with even better bass and a nice soundstage as well.


----------



## Triggaaar

Tatertots said:


> I haven't heard about the Realiser A16.  That looks amazing.


It is.


> I have a little over a month to decide if I want to pre-order.  I mean of course I want it but $1800 is a lot and then another $1800 for the HD800s.  Guess I wouldnt have to buy any audio equipment for a long time


Well that depends on what you want it for. It's amazing at Dolby Atmos surround sound. Are you wanting it for gaming?

Presumably there are better options for music.


----------



## Tatertots

Triggaaar said:


> It is.
> Well that depends on what you want it for. It's amazing at Dolby Atmos surround sound. Are you wanting it for gaming?
> 
> Presumably there are better options for music.



Yes I just want it for gaming.  Not sure how many games have Dolby Atmos.  I know Overwatch does but can't think of any others


----------



## Triggaaar

Tatertots said:


> Yes I just want it for gaming.


That's a hell of a spend on gaming 


> Not sure how many games have Dolby Atmos.


Not much yet, but no doubt more will.

It works well with lower end Stax too - at least, that's all I've heard it with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AxelCloris said:


> Holy cow, he lives!
> 
> You should remedy that. I could send you a headphone if you want to review something, I know a guy.


I know a guy who knows a guy. I see Evs has Sennheiser as a sponsor. ARE PEOPLE MOVING UP WITHOUT ME? 

My focus for like the past year and a half have been on the PC tech side of things, and I have YET to build one. Talk about stagnating. I'm close.... so close to building one probably in the next two years, lol.

I've thought about stuff like the Corsair Void Wireless headset. But dunno how it would work on the PS4.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I know a guy who knows a guy. I see Evs has Sennheiser as a sponsor. ARE PEOPLE MOVING UP WITHOUT ME?


You abandoned us. You're like @chicolom, moving on to other things and leaving us behind.


Mad Lust Envy said:


> My focus for like the past year and a half have been on the PC tech side of things, and I have YET to build one. Talk about stagnating. I'm close.... so close to building one probably in the next two years, lol.


Join me on the wonderful PC side of things!


Mad Lust Envy said:


> But dunno how it would work on the PS4.


Time to get yet another Mixamp 5.8 Wireless.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Tatertots said:


> Yes I just want it for gaming.  Not sure how many games have Dolby Atmos.  I know Overwatch does but can't think of any others



Not much yet, same with movies but they're coming eventually.

Atmos isn't the only format the Realiser does, it does every format up to Atmos and is prepared for the future with 16 channels and firmware updates.


----------



## Lester17

Hi guys, i am using the AKG K712 Pro + Magni 2 + Mixamp Pro TR + Boom Pro Mic. Now, my question is if anyone has the same setup as me and hoping you can share your eq preset for gaming. I looked through this thread looking for an eq preset that would apply to any audiophile headphones but no luck.

I use the 'natural bass' preset but it tends to feel not natural haha. Specially when i play BF1 the guns sound like throwing cans against a wall. This is how this preset looks:
80 Hz, 0 dB
450 Hz, 0dB, Q 1.0
1000 Hz, 0dB, Q 1.0
3700 Hz, 0 dB, Q 1.0
6330 Hz, 0 dB

Then, i started using this when i found this eq preset by metal571:
EQ Preset Preamp: -5.0 dB (Mixamp TR doesn't have this)
20 Hz, +5.0 dB
4000 Hz, +1.5, dB Q 3.0 
6000 Hz, -6.5 dB, Q 2.0 
11000 Hz, -7.0 dB, Q 2.0 
13000 Hz, +3.5 dB

This eq preset sounds accurate with tight bass. Need to test this more since i found it yesterday.


----------



## Knightfury (Aug 15, 2017)

Just asking for the hell of it at this point, I think I'm (sadly) at the end of the road on this one.

As far as closed back headphones go, is there anything much for clinical sound-whoring that beats the AKG K550 by a meaningful amount? I could go with the K553 massdrop for small improvements but.. it's the same headphone essentially with some tweaks.
I was considering HD598CS for a while but... seems these are at best a sidegrade? Anyone tried both or able to throw me a random suggestion?


----------



## mbyrnes

Knightfury said:


> Just asking for the hell of it at this point, I think I'm (sadly) at the end of the road on this one.
> 
> As far as closed back headphones go, is there anything much for clinical sound-whoring that beats the AKG K550 by a meaningful amount? I could go with the K553 massdrop for small improvements but.. it's the same headphone essentially with some tweaks.
> I was considering HD598CS for a while but... seems these are at best a sidegrade? Anyone tried both or able to throw me a random suggestion?



You could look at the Mr Speakers Aeon thread. I am sure there would be a few people who are gamers and can comment on how it is. They are $799, and many consider them to be the best closed headphone available (price/performance.factored in). I have read a few reviews where the Aeon is so close to the Ether Flow C, that they recommend to save your money and go with the Aeon. You could also check out the Audeze LCD-XC, but that is a much more expensive headphone ($1,799 I think).

Closed headphones are tough, as there aren't many high end models available. If I was to go with a closed back, it would be the Aeon. Thankfully I don't have to worry about sound leaking, so I am strictly open back for gaming and movies.


----------



## Scribblex

So i got the AD 700X plugged into the GSX 1000 and i cant shake the feeling that i just have better positional accuracy with just the stereo mode on, does anyone have any advice how should i set up the EQ settings on my GSX for best positional accuracy? Also the game is PUBG so i realize its not really the best game for 7.1 surround. Also im looking for good fun gaming headphones which are easy to drive with my GSX (AD700x is my competitve heapdhones) i heard Phillips Fidellio X2 are good but im open to suggestions i dont need positional accuracy im looking for straight fun i got the AD700x for accuracy


----------



## mbyrnes

Scribblex said:


> So i got the AD 700X plugged into the GSX 1000 and i cant shake the feeling that i just have better positional accuracy with just the stereo mode on, does anyone have any advice how should i set up the EQ settings on my GSX for best positional accuracy? Also the game is PUBG so i realize its not really the best game for 7.1 surround. Also im looking for good fun gaming headphones which are easy to drive with my GSX (AD700x is my competitve heapdhones) i heard Phillips Fidellio X2 are good but im open to suggestions i dont need positional accuracy im looking for straight fun i got the AD700x for accuracy



What is your price range for "fun" headphones? I don't know much about Sennheiser's VSS. Not sure how much power it has to drive certain headphones. 

Massdrop/Fostex TH-X00 is a great option for fun headphones, that still have a decent sound field. Tons of bass and clarity. ($400-$500 depending on wood cup). I have the $500 Ebony's. 

Beyerdynamic DT990 have a very V shaped sound. I don't mind the highs with gaming, but they can bother me with some music. I have the DT990 SE 250 ohm version ($130).

I love my Monoprice M1060, but I modded them with Audeze Vegan pads which are now extremely difficult to find. I've heard the leather Audeze pads improve the M1060 a lot as well. A new mod, Fuzzer, involves felt with a glue on the back. You cut pieces to fit between the grill covering the driver (east side). I haven't done it yet, but the frequency response looks better than the Audeze LCD2 (M1060 isn't quite as revealing, but it's close). All in, about $380-400 for a 110mm planar driver. Has a great soundstage for gaming, and wonderful bass. 

Those are 3 I own that I call "fun" headphones for gaming. I also have the Hifiman HE-X V2, which is a fun headphone with unreal soundstage and clarity. It isn't as bass heavy as the V Fostex or Monoprice, but it definitely digs deep. They're $1,300 new, and around $900-$950 used. These are great, all around headphones that are competitive and fun (hard combo to find). 

The Fidelio X2 is another popular, fun headphone. I haven't heard them, but the write up on them is in the first post. 

Hifiman HE560 is another option ($500+)

My only concern, is can the GSX1000 drive some of these headphones. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that. 

Best of luck. Check the for sale thread here as you can save some good money on headphones.


----------



## Triggaaar (Aug 17, 2017)

The PC37X has just arrived. It's not what I expected - after a bit of limited testing, the bass is much more present than I was expecting. I don't know if these will be as good for soundwhoring as I'd hoped, I need to test (a lot) more. Very comfortable, as I expected.



Scribblex said:


> Also im looking for good fun gaming headphones which are easy to drive with my GSX (AD700x is my competitve heapdhones) i heard Phillips Fidellio X2 are good but im open to suggestions i dont need positional accuracy im looking for straight fun i got the AD700x for accuracy


The X2 sound like the obvious choice, although I think these PC37X also seem to fit the fun category well.


----------



## guisess93

Hi guys,

I'm about to get the Custom Art Harmony 8.2 for my music listening. Someone told me that the H8.2 is a little congested therefore not suitable for gaming. Thus I figure to get a full-sized headphone just for FPS gaming. My requirements include high comfort (preferably velour pads), NOT reliant on amp (i.e. plug and play), and preferably closed-back or at least semi-open (since I live in a hot country and constant use of air-con and fan is a must). Does anyone have any suggestion? Thanks a lot


----------



## mbyrnes

guisess93 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm about to get the Custom Art Harmony 8.2 for my music listening. Someone told me that the H8.2 is a little congested therefore not suitable for gaming. Thus I figure to get a full-sized headphone just for FPS gaming. My requirements include high comfort (preferably velour pads), NOT reliant on amp (i.e. plug and play), and preferably closed-back or at least semi-open (since I live in a hot country and constant use of air-con and fan is a must). Does anyone have any suggestion? Thanks a lot



I HIGHLY recommend reading the first page. It took MLE years to put together, and much of it is relevant today (a few headphones have been discontinued). 

Also need a budget and what type of sound you're looking for.


----------



## guisess93

mbyrnes said:


> I HIGHLY recommend reading the first page. It took MLE years to put together, and much of it is relevant today (a few headphones have been discontinued).
> 
> Also need a budget and what type of sound you're looking for.


I read the first page many times already. The ones that offer great comfort like Shure 1840, AKG 65th, AKG 712 seem great but they do need amp, and they are opened. AD700(x) is a plug and play but their comfort score is low, and it is opened. Alpha Dog seems great since it is closed, score well in comfort, but it also needs amp. I'm really screwed. 
I will only use this headphone for FPS gaming so type of sound is not a concern. 
Budget-wise, I think it should be less than 200$ since I'm about to spend 800$ on H8.2 already.


----------



## mbyrnes

guisess93 said:


> I read the first page many times already. The ones that offer great comfort like Shure 1840, AKG 65th, AKG 712 seem great but they do need amp, and they are opened. AD700(x) is a plug and play but their comfort score is low, and it is opened. Alpha Dog seems great since it is closed, score well in comfort, but it also needs amp. I'm really screwed.
> I will only use this headphone for FPS gaming so type of sound is not a concern.
> Budget-wise, I think it should be less than 200$ since I'm about to spend 800$ on H8.2 already.



I would look at the Sennheiser/Massdrop PC37X, which is $120 and dropping for the next 5 hours on Massdrop (So act FAST). It is 116db/MW, so it can be driven by anything. It has a fun sound and good soundstage for gaming and detecting where things are happening. They are comfortable for long gaming sessions, and the included mic is above average (a bonus really). These are what I recommend for people who don't want or need an amp. A phone can drive these to ear bleeding levels.

You could always add an amp like the Schiit Magni 2 ($99) or the intriguing Massdrop/Cavalli hybrid tube amp, that is currently dropping for $250. Reviews I have read so far are extremely positive. Then you can order any headphone you like except the extreme power hungry headphones like the HE6.


----------



## guisess93

mbyrnes said:


> I would look at the Sennheiser/Massdrop PC37X, which is $120 and dropping for the next 5 hours on Massdrop (So act FAST). It is 116db/MW, so it can be driven by anything. It has a fun sound and good soundstage for gaming and detecting where things are happening. They are comfortable for long gaming sessions, and the included mic is above average (a bonus really). These are what I recommend for people who don't want or need an amp. A phone can drive these to ear bleeding levels.
> 
> You could always add an amp like the Schiit Magni 2 ($99) or the intriguing Massdrop/Cavalli hybrid tube amp, that is currently dropping for $250. Reviews I have read so far are extremely positive. Then you can order any headphone you like except the extreme power hungry headphones like the HE6.


I believe PC37X has the same pad shape with HD598, which I tried and it wasn't for me. The shape is too vertically long, for me. It reaches to my jawbone, and that was uncomfortable. I also did try the Beyer DT880/990, and I really love their velour pads, and prefer their more circular pad shape. 
Btw, PC37X will always come back to Massdrop. I've seen them times and times over


----------



## mbyrnes

guisess93 said:


> I believe PC37X has the same pad shape with HD598, which I tried and it wasn't for me. The shape is too vertically long, for me. It reaches to my jawbone, and that was uncomfortable. I also did try the Beyer DT880/990, and I really love their velour pads, and prefer their more circular pad shape.
> Btw, PC37X will always come back to Massdrop. I've seen them times and times over



Yeah they drop all the time, but if you wanted something immediately, this would be the fastest you could get it.

You could try the lower ohm Beyerdynamic DT Series. In case you don't know, DT770 is closed, DT880 Semi closed, DT990 open. I have the DT990 and they are a fun headphone that is still very good at positional audio. The 32 ohm version is easier to drive, and hopefully loud enough for you through the GSX1000. If these are strictly for gaming, I can recommend the DT990 no problem. They're great for gaming.


----------



## guisess93

mbyrnes said:


> Yeah they drop all the time, but if you wanted something immediately, this would be the fastest you could get it.
> 
> You could try the lower ohm Beyerdynamic DT Series. In case you don't know, DT770 is closed, DT880 Semi closed, DT990 open. I have the DT990 and they are a fun headphone that is still very good at positional audio. The 32 ohm version is easier to drive, and hopefully loud enough for you through the GSX1000. If these are strictly for gaming, I can recommend the DT990 no problem. They're great for gaming.


yes these are strictly for gaming. I do know that they have 32 ohm version. In fact, these DTs are the first one I search for when I first knew about this thread several months ago. But, according to MLE, DT770 has bloated bass that will affect the detail; DT880 has problem with positional cues (which is extremely essential for me since I play FPS game). And then again DT990 seems like a good one but it's opened ((( I ultimately have to comment on this thread asking for help because I really cannot find a headphone suitable to me


----------



## cskippy

The Massdrop HE-4XX would be a solid choice for gaming without an amp.

My personal recommendation is the Sony MDR MA900.  You can find them used for under $200.  It's like a baby HD800 with an excellent sound stage.  It's also hilariously easy to drive and super comfortable.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> The Massdrop HE-4XX would be a solid choice for gaming without an amp.
> 
> My personal recommendation is the Sony MDR MA900.  You can find them used for under $200.  It's like a baby HD800 with an excellent sound stage.  It's also hilariously easy to drive and super comfortable.


HE-4XX isn't even out yet, how do you know it would be a good choice for gaming?


----------



## cskippy

Impressions from people I trust about sound quality plus planars excel at gaming.  They do a better job of creating a 3D soundstage since you are in the center of it they create a more even 360 degree soundstage around you vs dynamic headphones which do better with 2D soundstage for music but things like front to back positional audio is harder to discern on dynamics.  This is noticeable with stereo audio cues but especially true for Virtual surround processing.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> Impressions from people I trust about sound quality plus planars excel at gaming.  They do a better job of creating a 3D soundstage since you are in the center of it they create a more even 360 degree soundstage around you vs dynamic headphones which do better with 2D soundstage for music but things like front to back positional audio is harder to discern on dynamics.  This is noticeable with stereo audio cues but especially true for Virtual surround processing.


Thanks for very nice new knowledge. But it is open-back too  The same story for MA900. I have to use air-con and fan constantly and they produce a noticeable noise so open-back is kinda impossible


----------



## cskippy

I have AC on all the time, it's not that bad.  I don't even listen that loud.  You learn to tune it out.  If you need closed headphones look for a EMU Walnut, Creative Aurvana Live (1st one, not the second gen that looks stupid), or maybe a used Mad Dog ( a very underated headphone).


----------



## illram

guisess93 said:


> HE-4XX isn't even out yet, how do you know it would be a good choice for gaming?



I have a 400i and it's pretty great. Better, in my humble opinion, than the 7XX (highly rated in MLE's guide), HD598, and DT770. Definitely my favorite gaming headphone under $250. The 4XX, if it is actually similar to the 400i, is a steal at $169.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> I have AC on all the time, it's not that bad.  I don't even listen that loud.  You learn to tune it out.  If you need closed headphones look for a EMU Walnut, Creative Aurvana Live (1st one, not the second gen that looks stupid), or maybe a used Mad Dog ( a very underated headphone).


Thanks for pointing out CAL. I kinda skipped this since I saw its competitive score is only 7+. But after reading MLE's detailed review, I can see that CAL has good soundstage, good positional while being closed-back, and no amp needed too. Now if I can find velour pads to replace the stock pads then it will be perfect for me. Please send me the link if you happen to find ones. I'm searching for them now.
The other headphone that reaches closest to my requirements is Alpha Dog. It's closed, high competitive score, good comfort score, but it does need amp.
I will also study more about EMU Walnut. Thanks a lot for being very patient with me so far 



illram said:


> I have a 400i and it's pretty great. Better, in my humble opinion, than the 7XX (highly rated in MLE's guide), HD598, and DT770. Definitely my favorite gaming headphone under $250. The 4XX, if it is actually similar to the 400i, is a steal at $169.


I actually do found the hybird pad of 4XX very appealing. The part touching the ears is velour, which is great. The surrounding part seems to be leather, which I believe can block more sound. But I'm still afraid that the opened design will let too much external sound in (air-con and fan noise in my case)


----------



## cskippy

@guisess93 These pads might work.  They're replacement pads for the MDR V6 but work with Audiotechnica M40 and others:

https://www.amazon.com/MDR-7506-MDR...30709&sr=8-2&keywords=mdr+v6+replacement+pads


----------



## guisess93

Oh so any pad working with ath m50 will work with CAL too?


----------



## cskippy

I'm not 100% sure.  I would ask around to see if anyone can confirm.  I just google replacement velour pads for Creative Aurvana Live or CAL and that was an option that came up.  They do seem pretty similar in size, and you might be able to look up the stock pad sizes to confirm.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> I'm not 100% sure.  I would ask around to see if anyone can confirm.  I just google replacement velour pads for Creative Aurvana Live or CAL and that was an option that came up.  They do seem pretty similar in size, and you might be able to look up the stock pad sizes to confirm.


my search come back with a very straight away result  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soft-Velour...reative-Aurvana-Live-Headphones-/251937730956
I guess my search/watch is finally ended (IYKWIM ) Thanks a lot again, I'm really indebted


----------



## cskippy

I saw those but they don't look like a good fit, I mean the headphones are oblong and the pads are circular.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> I saw those but they don't look like a good fit, I mean the headphones are oblong and the pads are circular.


hmm I guess you're right


----------



## Fegefeuer

Should I buy the BlasterX AE-5 and do comparison videos with the SBZ SBX? Could also throw in DHP. Just to clarify if that soundcard brings in a new gen of VST. It's 150€ however :|


----------



## Yethal (Aug 18, 2017)

Ladies and gentlemen, the eagle has landed! After months and months of work my custom headphones are finally complete. Please welcome Forzadynamic Custom 1770 Pro.
My humble COP had most of its parts replaced and is now composed of:

Beyerdynamic DT1770 drivers
Custom damping kit from Tru-Fi Speakers
Forza Audioworks Copper series cable and internal wiring
Shure SRH1540 earpads
Beyerdynamic DT770 headband and slider kit

Custom ordered Beyerdynamic faceplate with my avatar on one side and Forza Audioworks logo on the other
Custom One Pro earcups and bows


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, the eagle has landed!


Holy crap, I always thought the eyes in your avatar were eyebrows and the mouth openings were eyes.


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Holy crap, I always thought the eyes in your avatar were eyebrows and the mouth openings were eyes.


Can't be unseen.


----------



## mbyrnes

Yethal said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, the eagle has landed! After months and months of work my custom headphones are finally complete. Please welcome Forzadynamic Custom 1770 Pro.
> My humble COP had most of its parts replaced and is now composed of:
> 
> Beyerdynamic DT1770 drivers
> ...



Dude it looks incredible! I hope it sounds as good as you were aiming for. How does it sound?


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Dude it looks incredible! I hope it sounds as good as you were aiming for. How does it sound?


Come over to Poland and hear for yourself.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> I have AC on all the time, it's not that bad.  I don't even listen that loud.  You learn to tune it out.  If you need closed headphones look for a EMU Walnut, Creative Aurvana Live (1st one, not the second gen that looks stupid), or maybe a used Mad Dog ( a very underated headphone).


What do you think about Ath-A500X and the newer version A550Z? These are all closed-back i.e. what I need. How do you think the ATH models fair against the CAL! ?


----------



## cskippy

I haven't heard those or read anything about them.  I'm not a huge Audio Technica fan though.  Looking at other closed ATH headphones on Innerfidelity the CAL seems like the better alternative but that's just my opinion.


----------



## mbyrnes

So anyone else preorder an Xbox One X? So excited for this. I cannot wait to play in HDR with 4K abilities for everything, including apps.


----------



## cskippy

I'm not really even tempted.  I mostly play PC games but there were always a few Xbox exclusive games that I HAD to have.  I was a life long Halo player until it started going south with Halo 4.  Halo 5 just went too far away from what Halo used to be, too CoD like for me.  I hope Halo 6 goes back to their roots.  

Forza 7 might be okay but there aren't any revelations in racing games that make me go okay that's cool, I need to play that.  My favorite Forza was Forza 5. Forza 6 felt like a step backwards to me.


----------



## mbyrnes

I have been saving games that will be updated to play. I'm running through the PS4 Pro HDR exclusives right now. I play everything else on Xbox. Grabbed a few titles really cheap that are getting the 4K treatment.


----------



## cskippy

I still need to pick up a PS4 Pro to play their exclusives, also need an HDR TV lol!


----------



## illram

I'm mostly interested in the Xbox X as s media streaming device. My PC handles 4k gaming duties mostly but content owners seem to want to force us to watch everything on locked down devices. I'd be content with my "smart TV" but it can't output Dolby Atmos....enter Xbox one X...


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> I haven't heard those or read anything about them.  I'm not a huge Audio Technica fan though.  Looking at other closed ATH headphones on Innerfidelity the CAL seems like the better alternative but that's just my opinion.


Oh I just found out about Superflux 668B. They are semi-open. Is it enough to block the air con and fan noise?, do you have any idea?


----------



## cskippy

Compared to closed back probably not.  I looked at the isolation measurements on Innerfidelity ( a very good resource) and they're not that different.  What's your hesitation on the CAL?  Do you have Amazon Prime? If so, give them a try and if they don't float your boat send them back.


----------



## guisess93

cskippy said:


> Compared to closed back probably not.  I looked at the isolation measurements on Innerfidelity ( a very good resource) and they're not that different.  What's your hesitation on the CAL?  Do you have Amazon Prime? If so, give them a try and if they don't float your boat send them back.


My hesitation is that I don't live in the US. I can get the CAL from Japan for 45$ NEW (which is awesomely cheap) but it will also take quite some time for my cousin to bring it back to me. 668B is 40$ but I can directly go to the local shop and buy it. If 668B can't isolate the air con/fan noise then I will definitely get the CAL from Japan


----------



## cskippy

Now that sounds like a game plan!


----------



## guisess93 (Aug 22, 2017)

cskippy said:


> Now that sounds like a game plan!


What do you mean?

Btw, I looked into the isolation chart and to my noob eyes, they dont differ much. Please teach me how to tell the differences between the two. And what frequency range the air con and fan noise, do you know?
http://imgur.com/a/NeOqv


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> So anyone else preorder an Xbox One X? So excited for this. I cannot wait to play in HDR with 4K abilities for everything, including apps.


Does it do 60fps on all titles? If yes then I'll sell a kidney to preorder it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

no, the CPU is still a weak point so you won't get easier 60fps than with the Pro. 2,3Ghz vs 2,1Ghz of the Pro is not a huge jump. Both are Jaguar cores.


----------



## Yethal

What's the point then.


----------



## wazzupi (Aug 22, 2017)

cskippy said:


> The Massdrop HE-4XX would be a solid choice for gaming without an amp.
> 
> My personal recommendation is the Sony MDR MA900.  You can find them used for under $200.  It's like a baby HD800 with an excellent sound stage.  It's also hilariously easy to drive and super comfortable.


but would you recommend the hd800s even at a 700-900 dollar price point for gaming ? 
wait the mdr MA900 are discontinued >_< !!


----------



## cskippy

wazzupi said:


> but would you recommend the hd800s even at a 700-900 dollar price point for gaming ?
> wait the mdr MA900 are discontinued >_< !!


Yeah, I'm really mad they discontinued them.  I'll let you know how the HD800 is in about a week when I get mine.  For ~$700 HD800 is a good buy but try and get one with the SDR mod if possible.  The mod helps tame the 6kHz peak.


----------



## AxelCloris

wazzupi said:


> but would you recommend the hd800s even at a 700-900 dollar price point for gaming ?
> wait the mdr MA900 are discontinued >_< !!


If you have the HD 800 (or HD 800 S, hard to know exactly which one people are asking about) already, they're spectacular for gaming. I wouldn't recommend going out and buying one if gaming is your only objective, though, as they're definitely overkill IMO. If you're going to listen to music, movies _and_ gaming, then hell yeah get an HD 800 (S) for $700.

And IMO, the HD 800 doesn't need a mod to sound great.


----------



## BearMonster (Aug 25, 2017)

Fegefeuer said:


> Should I buy the BlasterX AE-5 and do comparison videos with the SBZ SBX? Could also throw in DHP. Just to clarify if that soundcard brings in a new gen of VST. It's 150€ however :|



I would not do so right now there are problems with this card while for me that is. The AE-5 is conflicting with my SBZ. Can't remember when i first noticed it but my SBZ will detect as AE-5 and AE-5 detects as SBZ.

After noticing the problem had to uninstall the SBZ driver reinstall driver for it to to finally detect the right one. Pulling that out and putting the AE-5 detects as SBZ, installing the driver finally gets it to detect as the AE-5.

Checking the sound playback & going to configure speakers i see 5.1 surround but no 7.1 surround (I talk about this later) Going around the sound blaster connect you have to pick headphones 7.1 if you want the surround sound unless you have speakers.

Playing around a couple of games i mess around testing the device untill i played Hard Reset under audio options it tells you the audio output which showed me 5.1 which confused me, plugging in the creative g5 & gsx 1000 both are shown 7.1, till i realise it's uses the default device configure speakers. My AE-5  only supports upto 5.1 surround, changing it to 7.1 speaker output or headphone mode in games does nothing and can still hear it in 5.1. And this lead to me having to reinstall and unistall everything again, then moving onto device manager and uninstalling it from there where the AE-5 was immune to being uninstall. I get the feeling i might have to do something in the registry entries, but thats not something i want to do. In all honesty i have lost a couple of days trying to fingure this out

My short play around with the AE-5 give me the impression it's what the creative g5 should've been.

While i was in the middle of uninstalling and installing drivers i decided to take off the cover of the AE-5 to take a picture.


Spoiler











I kind of don't see the soundcore3d chip unless it's microsope written. Unlike the SBZ the soundcore3d chip is clearly shown. If there is no soundcore3d chip not sure why creative kind of advertise it as such.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Hey Bearmaster,

thanks for your writeup. Hopefully the driver issues get sorted out fast so you'll be able to give us comparisons with the SBZ and Co. You're the man for this now. 
Basically AE5's BXAE vs. SBZ's SBX vs GSX 1000. Looking forward to it.


----------



## mbyrnes

Yethal said:


> What's the point then.



If you own a 4K HDR TV, it's a rather large difference in picture quality. The PS4 Pro with HDR looks amazing. The Xbox has always been my main gaming system. Many games will be 4K 60fps, even if they are checker boarded, it looks amazing. Horizon Zero Dawn is truly amazing. The XOX will be more powerful, and it will play multiplat games better. Since I also will use the UHD player, UHD streaming apps, and with the Smyth Research A16 coming soon, Dolby Atmos for movies and hopefully games. 

HDR is addictive, and I'm hoping Microsoft adds Dolby Vision support (I'll gladly pay for it). I really don't want to buy another 4K Blu-ray player for Dolby Vision. DV is much better than HDR10. My TV supports it, and I want it!


----------



## illram

mbyrnes said:


> If you own a 4K HDR TV, it's a rather large difference in picture quality. The PS4 Pro with HDR looks amazing. The Xbox has always been my main gaming system. Many games will be 4K 60fps, even if they are checker boarded, it looks amazing. Horizon Zero Dawn is truly amazing. The XOX will be more powerful, and it will play multiplat games better. Since I also will use the UHD player, UHD streaming apps, and with the Smyth Research A16 coming soon, Dolby Atmos for movies and hopefully games.
> 
> HDR is addictive, and I'm hoping Microsoft adds Dolby Vision support (I'll gladly pay for it). I really don't want to buy another 4K Blu-ray player for Dolby Vision. DV is much better than HDR10. My TV supports it, and I want it!


Yeah DV support would make the Xbox One X a killer media device. It already has a complete selection of streaming apps, plus 4K, plus UHD, plus HDR10, plus Dolby everything...other UHD players are $500+ with less functionality.


----------



## mbyrnes

illram said:


> Yeah DV support would make the Xbox One X a killer media device. It already has a complete selection of streaming apps, plus 4K, plus UHD, plus HDR10, plus Dolby everything...other UHD players are $500+ with less functionality.



Let's hope Microsoft realizes the importance of DV. If they pass on the cost, which is truly fine by me (not a lot of TVs can handle it currently). By next year, I expect a lot of 4K TVs to have the ability to decode Dolby Vision. It really is much better than HDR10.


----------



## illram (Aug 23, 2017)

mbyrnes said:


> Let's hope Microsoft realizes the importance of DV. If they pass on the cost, which is truly fine by me (not a lot of TVs can handle it currently). By next year, I expect a lot of 4K TVs to have the ability to decode Dolby Vision. It really is much better than HDR10.



My TV was one of the few 2016 models that does decode it, but my problem is it won't output Dolby Atmos, because LG are greedy and want everyone to go buy another OLED TV every year, apparently. Xbox X kind of simplifies it all for me if they can do DV as it becomes the center of my media streaming, in that case. (Right now I use the TV apps for everything).


----------



## BearMonster

Fegefeuer said:


> Hey Bearmaster,
> 
> thanks for your writeup. Hopefully the driver issues get sorted out fast so you'll be able to give us comparisons with the SBZ and Co. You're the man for this now.
> Basically AE5's BXAE vs. SBZ's SBX vs GSX 1000. Looking forward to it.



It will definitely take a while i have reached out to creative support waiting to see what they say.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 24, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I know a guy who knows a guy. I see Evs has Sennheiser as a sponsor. ARE PEOPLE MOVING UP WITHOUT ME?
> 
> My focus for like the past year and a half have been on the PC tech side of things, and I have YET to build one. Talk about stagnating. I'm close.... so close to building one probably in the next two years, lol.



@Mad Lust Envy
Hey man!
I wouldn't so much say I'm sponsored by Sennheiser, but rather they hired me to do their posts on Head-Fi and "leverage my knowledge of the community" to find reviewers and pass feedback up to the Audiophile team. I'm pretty passionate about championing Head-Fi, but I'm not everywhere. Dedicating more time to that! One of the challenges though, now that I'm representing a company, I can't really make comparative statements between brands and other "conflict of interest"-y stuff, so it's been hard to think of stuff to say on my own account.

Getting insider info is fun... REALLY EXCITING TIMES AHEAD FROM SENNHEISER in the next year!!

As far as building the computer, or getting back some spark about headphones... just do it! Don't let your dreams stay dreams! You can always build a computer with good bones but just minimal RAM and GPU, or even skip a GPU and use the iGPU on the processor, and have a system for now, and then upgrade components later! I will say, I built a computer a few years back, and it was fun to explore Steam and upgrade GPUs and fans and stuff... but working on the computer got old, my backlog got huge, and I went back to consoles because I just felt like fussing with a computer was getting in the way of playing games and having fun. Of course, a laptop is a lot easier to take to an office breakroom or whatever...

Now, when Brian said "I know a guy," he probably meant Jude, but I might be able to help you out too if you PM me!

Edit: DUDE! By the way, have you played Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice? So good! Same developers as Heavenly Sword and DMC, loads of research into Norse Mythology and Psychosis, and BINAURAL headphone audio! Plays like an (easier) cross between the Souls games and The Witness.


----------



## AxelCloris

Evshrug said:


> REALLY EXCITING TIMES AHEAD FROM SENNHEISER in the next year!!











Evshrug said:


> Don't let your dreams stay dreams!


Oh no, here comes LeBeouf.


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> Hey man!
> I wouldn't so much say I'm sponsored by Sennheiser, but rather they hired me to do their posts on Head-Fi and "leverage my knowledge of the community" to find reviewers and pass feedback up to the Audiophile team. I'm pretty passionate about championing Head-Fi, but I'm not everywhere. Dedicating more time to that! One of the challenges though, now that I'm representing a company, I can't really make comparative statements between brands and other "conflict of interest"-y stuff, so it's been hard to think of stuff to say on my own account.
> 
> ...


Stop being such a tease and tell us already.


----------



## mbyrnes

Evshrug said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> Hey man!
> I wouldn't so much say I'm sponsored by Sennheiser, but rather they hired me to do their posts on Head-Fi and "leverage my knowledge of the community" to find reviewers and pass feedback up to the Audiophile team. I'm pretty passionate about championing Head-Fi, but I'm not everywhere. Dedicating more time to that! One of the challenges though, now that I'm representing a company, I can't really make comparative statements between brands and other "conflict of interest"-y stuff, so it's been hard to think of stuff to say on my own account.
> 
> ...



That's awesome Evshrug! Congratulations on the new gig! I hope to see your personal thread here explode with Sennheiser product reviews and thoughts. You're definitely one of the few I've read enough posts from, to understand your sound preferences and how they relate to my own.


----------



## rudyae86

Evshrug said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> Hey man!
> I wouldn't so much say I'm sponsored by Sennheiser, but rather they hired me to do their posts on Head-Fi and "leverage my knowledge of the community" to find reviewers and pass feedback up to the Audiophile team. I'm pretty passionate about championing Head-Fi, but I'm not everywhere. Dedicating more time to that! One of the challenges though, now that I'm representing a company, I can't really make comparative statements between brands and other "conflict of interest"-y stuff, so it's been hard to think of stuff to say on my own account.
> 
> ...



Oh oh.....I sense a GSX 2000 coming next year with the stuff most of us complained about. I hope they release something for consoles. Most importantly, something with a better DAC/AMP.

Oh goodie, good thing I have been staying away from these forums just to save money lol. Now I feel to be hooked again


----------



## Yethal

rudyae86 said:


> Oh oh.....I sense a GSX 2000 coming next year with the stuff most of us complained about. I hope they release something for consoles. Most importantly, something with a better DAC/AMP.
> 
> Oh goodie, good thing I have been staying away from these forums just to save money lol. Now I feel to be hooked again


HDMI passthrough and S/PDIF output and I'm in.


----------



## rudyae86

Yethal said:


> HDMI passthrough and S/PDIF output and I'm in.



Yes, yes


----------



## AxelCloris

Surprise: we're actually getting Sennheiser branded lederhosen that match perfectly with a limited edition Sennheiser HD 414.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A wireless PC360/Game One/Whatever it's called nowadays! PogChamp


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, a new GSX would be neat. Testing it right now and it's a C+ at best. 

from a electr. standpoint it's a toy, it's like a better Mixamp, nothing more. Nothing from that DAC/AMP screams proper design with (USB) isolation, power and proper shielding/isol. on the outputs. 
headphone amp part is mediocre, microphone is too
its saving grace would have been an optical out feature but for 229€ that would have been still too expensive. 

It's VST is great however, really good. Other than that I can't recommend this device. For 99€ it would be ok.


----------



## Amodymous

Should I get 598s or AD900X for immersive and semi-competitive gaming? I listen to a lot of genres, so I want an all-rounder.


----------



## themrmikemcd (Aug 30, 2017)

Can someone please help me with sound settings for the PS4 pro and the Astro mixamp? What sound settings should i choose in game if using the mixamp with the VSS on?  Example: Uncharted lost Legasy. Which in game sound setting should I choose to get the best "surround sound" setting? Some say choose home theater and some say choose "surround sound". I know it should be "what ever sounds the best to me" but im looking for the most "accurate" sounds, well for using a fake SS device that is.

*edit* I'm using open back headphones SHP9500s and Dt880s (alternating)   I love this place and everyone is always so awesome and helpful, thought I would post in here. Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

Always set the game to 5.1 Home Theater when using the Mixamp.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Yethal said:


> Always set the game to 5.1 Home Theater when using the Mixamp.


Thank you so much!


----------



## LB Felipe

Koss GMR-545-AIR and GMR-540-ISO both for $60 each.

Is there any chance of them being good or more than that?


----------



## raband

When a reviewer wears the cups/pads on the outside of his cap..... I'll wait for another review (did he mention if the closed ones seal the sound in?)

Am tipping they'll be cheaper, better sounding and more comfortable than the majority of "gaming" headsets.

Surprised they don't come with a 2 into 1 adaptor.


----------



## Triggaaar (Sep 2, 2017)

raband said:


> When a reviewer wears the cups/pads on the outside of his cap..... I'll wait for another review (did he mention if the closed ones seal the sound in?)


I imagine they sounded pretty good, because the reviewer himself was super amped. I don't actually know what that means (maybe the cap was necessary for the super amping), but it sounds like an audio revolution.

The headphones are 101 decibel SPL, which means 101 decibel split. Amazing.


----------



## LB Felipe

Guys, don't mind with the reviewer Just by guessing, what are the chances of those are good ones?


----------



## AxelCloris

LB Felipe said:


> Guys, don't mind with the reviewer Just by guessing, what are the chances of those are good ones?


I'm skeptical of anything marketed as a "gaming" product until I try it for myself.


----------



## Sanctuary (Sep 6, 2017)

AxelCloris said:


> I'm skeptical of anything marketed as a "gaming" product until I try it for myself.



There's usually technically nothing wrong with "gaming" headsets.  They just typically aren't as good for the cost as what you can do with separate items, and you're paying a premium for the all-in-one package and branding.  One of the few headsets I could ever personally recommend would be the Sennheiser PC360.


----------



## AxelCloris

Sanctuary said:


> There's usually technically nothing wrong with "gaming" headsets.  They just typically aren't as good for the cost as what you can do with separate items, and you're paying a premium for the all-in-one package and branding.  One of the few headsets I could ever personally recommend would be the Sennheiser PC360.


In my experience, headsets that target the gaming audience tend to focus more on styling (and lately RGB) rather than comfort and sound. There are a few standouts, but the majority of the gaming market just falls into a big ol' pool that keeps washing over itself.

The list of headsets I'd recommend is small as well. The Sennheiser PC 360 doesn't make my list, but I do like the Massdrop/Sennheiser PC37X. I also liked the original HyperX Cloud, though I haven't heard any of the recent revisions. That was essentially a rebrand of one of QPAD's most popular headsets.

I have high expectations of a headset. It's tough for one to meet my criteria and get the thumbs up. Unless a headset is absolutely necessary, I'd usually suggest starting with a great pair of headphones and find a way to add a mic.


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> In my experience, headsets that target the gaming audience tend to focus more on styling (and lately RGB) rather than comfort and sound. There are a few standouts, but the majority of the gaming market just falls into a big ol' pool that keeps washing over itself.
> 
> The list of headsets I'd recommend is small as well. The Sennheiser PC 360 doesn't make my list, but I do like the Massdrop/Sennheiser PC37X. I also liked the original HyperX Cloud, though I haven't heard any of the recent revisions. That was essentially a rebrand of one of QPAD's most popular headsets.
> 
> I have high expectations of a headset. It's tough for one to meet my criteria and get the thumbs up. Unless a headset is absolutely necessary, I'd usually suggest starting with a great pair of headphones and find a way to add a mic.


What about the Beyerdynamic headsets? I remember You posting about a Beyerdynamic a little while back.


----------



## illram

Doesn't the new Sennheiser 598SR have an inline mic? I bought an after market in line mic cable for my 598SE and it works great as a "gaming headset" on the rare occasions I need a mic. At work I have a DT770 with a modmic which is also pretty great.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> What about the Beyerdynamic headsets? I remember You posting about a Beyerdynamic a little while back.


They updated their MMX 300 to include a detachable cable, changed their boom mic and made it overall a more rounded headset. We made a thread during CES for the announcement, but I've not heard the new one yet. The changes looked to all be positive. I've listened to music through the original MMX 300, but never gamed with it.


----------



## overhaze

Any views on the B&O h6 for gaming? Fashion headphones but their imaging is meant to be spectacular.


----------



## DSebastiao

What is the go to virtual sound device? I wanted the mixamp but they haven't released a new one for quite some time.


----------



## Azurik (Sep 15, 2017)

If money is not an issue then the smyth realiser a16. Otherwise have a look at the soundblaster x7.

If you are on pc, check out sennheisers solution the gsx models but they may require an additional amp depending on your headphones

If you are using an Xbox, you can purchase a license for Dolby Atmos for headphones. This is currently only an upmix solution as games need to be patched first and none are at the moment.


----------



## PurpleAngel

DSebastiao said:


> What is the go to virtual sound device? I wanted the mixamp but they haven't released a new one for quite some time.


Depends, if you need a virtual sound device (headphone surround sound) for a gaming console, might as well buy a used Astro Mix-amp (off eBay), or even cheaper a used Turtle Beach systems DSS (off eBay).
If for a Windows PC, then maybe an internal or external sound card (Creative or Asus or other).


----------



## DSebastiao

Azurik said:


> If money is not an issue then the smyth realiser a16. Otherwise have a look at the soundblaster x7.
> 
> If you are on pc, check out sennheisers solution the gsx models but they may require an additional amp depending on your headphones
> 
> If you are using an Xbox, you can purchase a license for Dolby Atmos for headphones. This is currently only an upmix solution as games need to be patched first and none are at the moment.



I liked the GSX from sennheiser, didn't cross my mind, the problem is the price tho...



PurpleAngel said:


> Depends, if you need a virtual sound device (headphone surround sound) for a gaming console, might as well buy a used Astro Mix-amp (off eBay), or even cheaper a used Turtle Beach systems DSS (off eBay).
> If for a Windows PC, then maybe an internal or external sound card (Creative or Asus or other).



I was thinking about something like the mixamp that lets me have 2 sound sources going through, i have the DSS but it has LOTS of background noise.


----------



## cskippy

Mixamp isn't that quiet.  Although I don't know relative to the DSS.


----------



## Yethal (Sep 16, 2017)

There's also Recon 3D which IIRC has lower background noise than the Mixamp.

EDIT: Why Astro is a pos company:

ASTRO HEADSET-ONLY COMPATIBILITY

The custom 3.5mm jack provides compatibility only with ASTRO A10 and A40 headsets.
^direct quote from the Mixamp m60 product page.


----------



## Yethal

Damn, with announcement of Magni 3 the entire "what amp to pair with a mixamp" debate became moot again.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> Damn, with announcement of Magni 3 the entire "what amp to pair with a mixamp" debate became moot again.


It'll certainly be a frequent recommendation. The Magni 3 even drives an LCD-4. Not to ear-splitting levels, but pretty damned impressively for $100. Unless someone needs a truly portable amp, the Magni 3 will likely be a go-to suggestion for Mixamp pairing. The main reason I can think to recommend something else would be for better synergy with specific headphones.


----------



## raif89

Hey all!

So after getting the Fidelio X1 when it released like... 4 years ago one of my pads finally gave up. The inside fell apart and I can now see the foam as the fuzzy outside is unraveling off it. I'm sure there's a way to fix it, but if not I'm in the market for a new headset.

https://imgur.com/a/4M5vG for reference as to what happened to the pads.

I've been looking at either getting a new X1 or changing to a AKG 712 Pro. I've got an Asus Xonar STX to drive my headphones atm, I could potentially get an external amp in the future if I had to but I'd rather not.

I cannot get an X2 as it's not available in my country nor does anyone ship them here. I love my X1's as they're super comfy and great range with great bass. I'm using it for movies, games and music. My only downside to them is that my ears hit the insides of the walls and can itch. Competitiveness is not important to me at all, I'm more about fun and getting the most immersion in my games. Mids/bass are very important, I like them to be defined but fun. Highs I would like clear, not distorted and a little warm.

There's not a big price difference between them, so I can get a new pair of X1's or try something new. The AKG's are cheaper than the X1's.

Would you say the AKG pro's would be better than the X1's for this?


----------



## Reeses

Hey everyone,

Advice on an external mic that's not the boompro for gaming? I have a loud keyboard and kids in the background.

In my research I see a lot of mentions of the modmic, but I see very polarizing reviews (either its great or garbage) so i'm not sure if it's safe to make that $70 purchase. Can I get some more recent opinions?


----------



## AxelCloris

Reeses said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Advice on an external mic that's not the boompro for gaming? I have a loud keyboard and kids in the background.
> 
> In my research I see a lot of mentions of the modmic, but I see very polarizing reviews (either its great or garbage) so i'm not sure if it's safe to make that $70 purchase. Can I get some more recent opinions?


Gaming on a console or PC? Some game consoles accept USB microphones. I know the PS4 works with the Blue Snowball. If you're looking for good noise rejection on a mic, maybe a USB dynamic mic on a stand would work for your needs. I game with a dynamic mic on PC. If you're looking for more of a traditional "headset" style setup the ModMic is decent. I had their first generation model years ago and paired it with the AKG Q701.


----------



## Reeses

AxelCloris said:


> Gaming on a console or PC? Some game consoles accept USB microphones. I know the PS4 works with the Blue Snowball. If you're looking for good noise rejection on a mic, maybe a USB dynamic mic on a stand would work for your needs. I game with a dynamic mic on PC. If you're looking for more of a traditional "headset" style setup the ModMic is decent. I had their first generation model years ago and paired it with the AKG Q701.



Ah yes I forgot to mention it's for PC gaming. I was indeed looking for the more traditional headset setup. It will be paired with my TH-X00.


----------



## Yethal

Reeses said:


> Ah yes I forgot to mention it's for PC gaming. I was indeed looking for the more traditional headset setup. It will be paired with my TH-X00.


There's also the Massdrop Minimic which works pretty much the same as the modmic but is only $25


----------



## Reeses

Yethal said:


> There's also the Massdrop Minimic which works pretty much the same as the modmic but is only $25



Unfortunately it looks like the drop for this is over.


----------



## mbyrnes

DSebastiao said:


> I liked the GSX from sennheiser, didn't cross my mind, the problem is the price tho...
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about something like the mixamp that lets me have 2 sound sources going through, i have the DSS but it has LOTS of background noise.



Go with the X7. You can have several inputs playing at the same time. You can also take phone calls through it while gaming. Check out the dedicated thread for the X7. 

I own an older Mixamp, one of the better ones they ever made. It's noisy, needs an external amp for most headphones, and just doesn't have ANYWHERE near the functionality of the X7. Astro really screwed up these past few years. They were once the go to, for console gaming. I just can't recommend their products anymore. 

Love my X7, and hopefully by Christmas I can retire it for other usage, when my Smyth Research Realizer A16 arrives.


----------



## halcyon

BearMonster said:


> I would not do so right now there are problems with this card while for me that is. The AE-5 is conflicting with my SBZ. Can't remember when i first noticed it but my SBZ will detect as AE-5 and AE-5 detects as SBZ.



I* wonder if they ever got those AE-5 issues solved?* The most common complaints I've heard are:

- *mic input 'whine' or 'whistling'* (regardless of card grounding, external molex connector used or not)
- upon reboot, *output volume resets to 100%* (I still get this with my X7 too, even with latest drivers, after various re-installs)
- bass crossover settings not working properly

Also, the noise isolation was quite bad, according to several reviews. So for people who need to crank it up and have the absolute black backround, not the ideal solution.

Personally I'd love to get a working 7.1 PCIe soundcard (with no USB-bridge) as they have lower latency and 'just work', when the drivers are correct. I'm having enough of stuttering and USB saturation issues with my X7, even though it's sitting alone in a motherboard integrated USB2 controller (not sharing bandwidth) and the controller is on separate non-shared IRQ. For my money, the PCIe cards (not PCIE-USB bridge ones) used to work much more reliably.


----------



## The Krell

Has anyone tried the Hifiman edition s for gaming? I can't get the earpad back on my dt770s after removing them and blowing the hairs off the drivers..it's not all bad amazon are giving me a full refund..i have ordered the hifiman they cost £189(rip off britain) in the uk and $149 in the usa.


----------



## KHAL-Drogo

What headphones or headset should I get for around £150 for fps gaming ?


----------



## Reeses

Reeses said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Advice on an external mic that's not the boompro for gaming? I have a loud keyboard and kids in the background.
> 
> In my research I see a lot of mentions of the modmic, but I see very polarizing reviews (either its great or garbage) so i'm not sure if it's safe to make that $70 purchase. Can I get some more recent opinions?



Bump on this question


----------



## Yethal

Reeses said:


> Bump on this question


KetDirect?


----------



## Reeses

Yethal said:


> KetDirect?



Oh nice haven't heard of these. Will those work with the TH-X00?


----------



## Yethal

Reeses said:


> Oh nice haven't heard of these. Will those work with the TH-X00?


You'd need a custom double entry to single entry adapter. Ask Evshrug where he got his, he had one made for hd700 iirc


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> You'd need a custom double entry to single entry adapter. Ask Evshrug where he got his, he had one made for hd700 iirc


I can't answer for Evs, but I have an adapter like that for my Ether Flow. I picked up a SE/Hirose adapter from PETEREK (Head-Fi'er, but don't want to bug him with a tag) and it's been very kind to me.


----------



## raif89

raif89 said:


> ....
> 
> I've been looking at either getting a new X1 or changing to a AKG 712 Pro...
> 
> ...



Bumping this Q if anyone has any info or opinion


----------



## Yethal

raif89 said:


> Bumping this Q if anyone has any info or opinion


HD599?


----------



## The Krell (Sep 28, 2017)

Hifiman edition s sound like closed headphones.. I don't know why people say they have a big sound stage..dt770 16ohm have a big better soundstage..one thing I do like about the hifiman is they are clean sounding and that's about it..i have just ordered a new set of pads for my beyers and are sending the hifimans back..i still think that the beyer dt770 16ohms are the best easy to drive gaming headphones you can get!


----------



## The Krell (Sep 29, 2017)

I had a hair stuck to the driver of my DT770.. I just removed the pad and took the hair off..now they are ok again!


----------



## The Krell (Sep 29, 2017)

KHAL-Drogo said:


> What headphones or headset should I get for around £150 for fps gaming ?


Beyerdynamic 16ohm dt770 for easy to drive headphones!


----------



## illram (Sep 30, 2017)

So what's everyone's verdict on Windows sonic? I finally tried it on Xbox, after trying it on PC a while ago. It added some artificial soundstage/reverb and a more continuous spectrum across left to right. Like adding a center channel to a 2 channel set up. I was hoping on Xbox there might be more games using it but guess not.

Not surprising as developers need to integrate object based audio into their game for it to work. Although for "fake" headphone surround (i.e. lacking individual 5 channel mix), SBX still sounds better to me.

Anyone know if any developers planning on integrating Windows Sonic like Overwatch with Atmos? Or is this a dead end?

I wouldn't mind a shift to true (free) object based audio in games.


----------



## Raincoat (Sep 30, 2017)

I just tried the DX Clip-on mic. Even when I hold it up to my face it's not picking up anything I say. Did the quality just drop from the original review?

Edit: Either drivers or the motherboard messed up. One of the microphone ports was picking up as line-in. Tried a less...convenient one and it picks up now.


----------



## wazzupi

612pro or 712pro


----------



## rudyae86

illram said:


> So what's everyone's verdict on Windows sonic? I finally tried it on Xbox, after trying it on PC a while ago. It added some artificial soundstage/reverb and a more continuous spectrum across left to right. Like adding a center channel to a 2 channel set up. I was hoping on Xbox there might be more games using it but guess not.
> 
> Not surprising as developers need to integrate object based audio into their game for it to work. Although for "fake" headphone surround (i.e. lacking individual 5 channel mix), SBX still sounds better to me.
> 
> ...



It's still new so it will take a bit until devs do something with it.




Raincoat said:


> I just tried the DX Clip-on mic. Even when I hold it up to my face it's not picking up anything I say. Did the quality just drop from the original review?
> 
> Edit: Either drivers or the motherboard messed up. One of the microphone ports was picking up as line-in. Tried a less...convenient one and it picks up now.



You probably got a defective one



wazzupi said:


> 612pro or 712pro



Both....but I would go K712 myself


----------



## wazzupi

rudyae86 said:


> It's still new so it will take a bit until devs do something with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


even at a +180 dollar premium ?


----------



## AxelCloris

I have a few friends who loved the K612, and it was decent, but I'd also go K712 if choosing between those two.


----------



## Yethal

K612 has a hardwired cable. Reason enough for me.


----------



## Arin7

I  liked how described the sound of each headphone, so I was thinking about buying Beyerdynamic DT880 Edition 250 ohms or Sennheiser HD598, but since I saw for the sound accuracy you voted in the favor of HD598 I think I would buy the HD598 and friend of mine also has them I tried and liked them, so when I went to buy the HD598 the sells person told me the company has discontinued the HD598's line and the model is replaced by HD599, so decided to do a research on 599 before I buy them, I e-mailed the Sennheiser and asked if these models are any different in bass, treble, sound stage and sound signature they replied telling me there isn't much difference only 599 has different headband and slightly different and improved sound compared to the HD598, if you ever have tested HD599 would you kindly tell me what do you think of them? I mean are they good as 598 for gaming or better, worse, I currently have HD600 I love how they sound with music but for gaming, everything is so really close I freaked out few times like the enemy was like beside me, and finally found it was the headphones that was causing the effect, so I want to buy another headphone for gaming and movies, would like to hear your thoughts on HD599 and compared to the HD598 and DT880 which are better for gaming and movies, many thanks in advance.


----------



## Swordsman

Read the guide, was very interested in Phillips x1, x2 for PS4 gaming but out of stock at Amazon. Any other alternatives that I can buy from Amazon?


----------



## blastedmyphone (Oct 3, 2017)

How would you guys rate the Monolith M1060s for gaming in comparison to, let's say, the K712s?
I gotta say I love the K712's wide "live concert" soundstage. Very immersive.


----------



## Lunatics

Anyone have recommendations for the best option to use for a DAC/Amp for headphones for gaming or just overall good quality on a PC? I am currently using a Creative X7 which I believe I found initially through discussion in this thread a while ago. I like it, it has improved my overall audio and volume on my PC and I originally got it and loved it for the ability to connect my PS4 through it and have both devices going through my one headset, however I do not really touch my PS4 anymore and my PC is my primary concern. I feel like with this set up I can barely hear footsteps in CS:GO and sometimes other games, but that's the main "competitive" game I play on and off. I feel like gunshots and general noises are quite loud, but footsteps are very faint and sound far away and sometimes hard to tell the position or direction they are coming from. I know part of it is probably with the game itself, but I am wondering if there any potentially any settings in the Creative software or overall PC or games I can change to maybe get something better going on? In the Creative software I have surround on I believe but only set to about 20%. I think there may be a "footstep enhance" option or something but I have not messed with it too much because I feel like when I tried it in the past it made things sound a bit different and weird overall. should I be using this setting, or is there a better DAC/Amp option I could go with overall, even if it does not have the option to have both my PS4 AND PC connected at the same time?


----------



## AppleheadMay

X7 is something I looked at and was interested in for gaming.
But now I have both the Ossic X and Realiser A16 incoming.
Look those up, they might be of interest to you albeit at very different prices.


----------



## wazzupi

blastedmyphone said:


> How would you guys rate the Monolith M1060s for gaming in comparison to, let's say, the K712s?
> I gotta say I love the K712's wide "live concert" soundstage. Very immersive.


2nd


----------



## ruiliao

AppleheadMay said:


> X7 is something I looked at and was interested in for gaming.
> But now I have both the Ossic X and Realiser A16 incoming.
> Look those up, they might be of interest to you albeit at very different prices.


I wonder how good will those be. I currently have sennheiser's HD569 And a pair of K702. I wonder if it would help at all with sound accuracy for gaming. That's pretty much all I use headphones for. Fps competitive gaming.


----------



## mashuto

AppleheadMay said:


> X7 is something I looked at and was interested in for gaming.
> But now I have both the Ossic X and Realiser A16 incoming.
> Look those up, they might be of interest to you albeit at very different prices.



The realiser looks quite fantastic... but... also quite out of my price comfort range. I am currently using my sennheiser hd 6xx with waves nx for gaming and it works pretty well, but the ossic has me interested, especially considering that it has head tracking which would be great for watching movies in vr (looking at you bigscreen). I see the preorder is through indiegogo... are they reputable enough, is this likely to actually release (and meet the estimated january 2018 ship date)?


----------



## John Q Lin

Amodymous said:


> Should I get 598s or AD900X for immersive and semi-competitive gaming? I listen to a lot of genres, so I want an all-rounder.


I had both, 598s are better for movies, lack bass, warm signature, better sound stage, ok for gaming. 
AD900X - lighter bass than 598s, natural sound signature, lack sound stage, better at pin point the enemy's direction.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mashuto said:


> The realiser looks quite fantastic... but... also quite out of my price comfort range. I am currently using my sennheiser hd 6xx with waves nx for gaming and it works pretty well, but the ossic has me interested, especially considering that it has head tracking which would be great for watching movies in vr (looking at you bigscreen). I see the preorder is through indiegogo... are they reputable enough, is this likely to actually release (and meet the estimated january 2018 ship date)?



Tehy are a Kickstarter program that have much more then met their goals and are adding all sorts of extras now.
No problem with the release although one can never tell anout the date ...
I backed them when they were still a kickstarter program.


----------



## Amodymous

John Q Lin said:


> I had both, 598s are better for movies, lack bass, warm signature, better sound stage, ok for gaming.
> AD900X - lighter bass than 598s, natural sound signature, lack sound stage, better at pin point the enemy's direction.



So, which one should I get for semi-competitive and casual gaming? Also, for more productive uses like work and movies. For example music in the background.


----------



## John Q Lin

Amodymous said:


> So, which one should I get for semi-competitive and casual gaming? Also, for more productive uses like work and movies. For example music in the background.


AD900X


----------



## Unframed

Hey guys

I'm looking to buy some new headphones, maybe the K712 pro's or HD650 or something else, haven't fully decided yet.
Together with the headphones I want a Dac/Amp.

I'm debating whether to go with the Astro mixamp together with a headphone Amp, or go with a proper Dac/Amp combo.
Would going the Astro route degrade the sound quality, over let’s say a Schiit stack, or is it about the same sound wise?

The reason I would like to go with the Astro is the option to mix between game/music volume and chat volume, which I use a lot with my current A50's.
The Dolby Surround is not a must, so I have no problem giving that up. But not to have the option to mix the audio is somewhat a big loss for me.


----------



## Yethal

Unframed said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I'm looking to buy some new headphones, maybe the K712 pro's or HD650 or something else, haven't fully decided yet.
> Together with the headphones I want a Dac/Amp.
> ...


Creative X7 + Creative BT-W2 and You're set.


----------



## Unframed

Yethal said:


> Creative X7 + Creative BT-W2 and You're set.



Thanks for you feedback.

With the X7 wouldn’t I lose the hardware mixing capability though? and only be able to do it via Windows Volume Mixer?

Would the purpose of the Creative BT-W2 be to run the X7 via BT and ditch the cables to the PC? or do you have another purpose in mind?


----------



## Yethal

Unframed said:


> Thanks for you feedback.
> 
> With the X7 wouldn’t I lose the hardware mixing capability though? and only be able to do it via Windows Volume Mixer?
> 
> Would the purpose of the Creative BT-W2 be to run the X7 via BT and ditch the cables to the PC? or do you have another purpose in mind?


You still have the X7 internal mixer available. Bt-w2 has several purposes. It can be used to add console voice chat capability to x7 or just as an extra usb input on pc.


----------



## NamelessPFG

Look who's back after a very long hiatus... I've got some stuff to review now, even if I haven't rewritten that very old PC gaming audio guide like I wanted to.

It'll take me a while to form my impressions on the new gear, though.



AppleheadMay said:


> X7 is something I looked at and was interested in for gaming.
> But now *I have both the Ossic X and Realiser A16 incoming.*
> Look those up, they might be of interest to you albeit at very different prices.


Wait. Back up a moment. _You have the Ossic X en route?_

Needless to say, like all the other Kickstarter backers, I've been waiting a very long time for them to deliver. My "Kickstarter battlestation" feels a bit incomplete without it, given that I already got a new keyboard (Kinesis Freestyle Edge) and mouse (Swiftpoint Z) from other backed projects this year. I'm also not keen on the whole "microUSB only out of the box" thing when we're already well into the age of USB-C on smartphones (and a lot of manufacturers think it's a _brilliant_ idea to remove perfectly useful options like the 3.5mm TRRS headphone jack).

I can manage for the time being, though. All I need is my X-Fi Titanium HD and Sennheiser PC360, really. The Ossic X is more of a matter of curiosity than anything.


----------



## AppleheadMay

NamelessPFG said:


> Look who's back after a very long hiatus... I've got some stuff to review now, even if I haven't rewritten that very old PC gaming audio guide like I wanted to.
> 
> It'll take me a while to form my impressions on the new gear, though.
> 
> ...



Same here, curiosity. I'm fine with my phones iin stereo for games for now and the Realiser is where I put my bet on for games and movies.
I have been waiting for a long time for both now but they should both be coming in before the end of the year.


----------



## AxelCloris

NamelessPFG said:


> Look who's back after a very long hiatus...


Damn, and here I thought we'd finally gotten rid of you for good. 

Welcome back, friend.


----------



## NamelessPFG

AxelCloris said:


> Damn, and here I thought we'd finally gotten rid of you for good.
> 
> Welcome back, friend.


Don't worry, you and the others didn't scare me off or anything. I just found out what I wanted along this crazy audiophile journey and _had to keep out of here for my wallet's sake._ Otherwise, I'd probably still be sinking hundreds, if not _thousands_ into Stax setups, maybe with a Smyth Realiser on top. Oh, and I really need to order a replacement driver or two for my MMX 300 already so I have a fallback in case something happens to my PC360.

What actually brought me back, though, was the sudden opportunity to review some Sennheiser gear - specifically the GAME ZERO headset (a closed-back version of the PC360/GAME ONE, from what I can tell) and the GSX 1000 USB "sound card" (DAC, ADC, and driverless 7.1 surround DSP, all in one plug-and-play unit). I need more time to form some solid impressions on both pieces of gear before I go writing anything up, though.

I would've also come back if I had the Ossic X to review, but yeah, I'm still waiting on that one, just like everybody else.


----------



## JLM7424

@ MAD LUST ENVY,        Thank you for this Astounding Review , very well done.   May i ask your opinion Or anyone else's   I'm very interested in making a Purchase of Either the Shure SRH1540's or the SRH1840's   .   I ,am a Gamer of First person shooters mainly, on PC only 
and a youtube content Creator, I also Truly enjoy my music tunes and creations on my Daw software .    Would you suggest one over the other,  I'm not a pro gamer yet a very competitive public gamer.   Any and all Sincere input would be greatly Appreciated .

Thank you all Matt J.


----------



## Yethal

JLM7424 said:


> @ MAD LUST ENVY,        Thank you for this Astounding Review , very well done.   May i ask your opinion Or anyone else's   I'm very interested in making a Purchase of Either the Shure SRH1540's or the SRH1840's   .   I ,am a Gamer of First person shooters mainly, on PC only
> and a youtube content Creator, I also Truly enjoy my music tunes and creations on my Daw software .    Would you suggest one over the other,  I'm not a pro gamer yet a very competitive public gamer.   Any and all Sincere input would be greatly Appreciated .
> 
> Thank you all Matt J.


As an SRH1840 owner I have to warn You. Do not buy these if You listen to bassy music or enjoy bass in general. While the quality of thecbass on these is pretty good, the quantity leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Looking for a bit more advice/guidance please guys - have moved exclusively to Xbox One gaming now and looking at a change of headphone.

Currently running the Sennheiser Game One via the controller with Windows Sonic enabled.  Dolby Atmos also purchased for the games that fully support it (Gears of War 4 so far I think).  Thing is I don't find the Senns as comfy as I'd like - pads feel a tad narrow for me.

Using the console in the lounge so lack of messy cables etc a bonus hence using the controller so far.  I have a VModa Boom Mic I could use and so far torn between the following:-

1.  Phillips SHP9500/AKG702 (I have a XLR to 3.5mm adaptor for the VModa).  Have owned both of these before.  AKG my preference but would the controller have the muscle to drive them properly (I used a Creative G5 via PS4 before). Would a Mixamp TR be enough for the 702 as I really only want the one cable if possible. Maybe Fidelio X2 considered also?

2.  Astro A50 (Gen 3 Refrub) or Razer Thresher (not Ultimate) - purely for the wireless convenience - I know these are probably closed back which I normally don't like but if they sound half decent maybe the convenience would compensate?  Would use Windows Sonic/Dolby Atmos with either so turning off the 7.1 on the Astro.

Any tips appreciated please - or any alternatives up to the £150 approx mark.


----------



## DoctaCosmos

Hey guys I’ve got a modmic I used for one day while I waited for my headphones to come in the mail.  It’s got a mic mute switch and 3.5mm termination. Looking to put it up for sale on the forums but don’t know what category or price.  Any recommendations?


----------



## PurpleAngel

WhiteHartMart said:


> Looking for a bit more advice/guidance please guys - have moved exclusively to Xbox One gaming now and looking at a change of headphone.
> Currently running the Sennheiser Game One via the controller with Windows Sonic enabled.  Dolby Atmos also purchased for the games that fully support it (Gears of War 4 so far I think).  Thing is I don't find the Senns as comfy as I'd like - pads feel a tad narrow for me.
> Using the console in the lounge so lack of messy cables etc a bonus hence using the controller so far.  I have a VModa Boom Mic I could use and so far torn between the following:-
> 1.  Phillips SHP9500/AKG702 (I have a XLR to 3.5mm adaptor for the VModa).  Have owned both of these before.  AKG my preference but would the controller have the muscle to drive them properly (I used a Creative G5 via PS4 before). Would a Mixamp TR be enough for the 702 as I really only want the one cable if possible. Maybe Fidelio X2 considered also?
> ...



Maybe trying different ear pads might improve the comfort of the GameOne headphones?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Softer-Pro...515-555-595-518-HD558-Headphones/251893482550
Cheaper then buying new headphones.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

PurpleAngel said:


> Maybe trying different ear pads might improve the comfort of the GameOne headphones?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Softer-Pro...515-555-595-518-HD558-Headphones/251893482550
> Cheaper then buying new headphones.



Thanks for the suggestion. Really not a fan of pleather/leather pads though.

Think the problem is the Senn ear cups are oval and quite narrow and the clamp fairly high. I had minor surgery near my ear and think bigger round pads would sit bettwr in that area.


----------



## NamelessPFG

All right, I'm done with work for tonight, and the weekend's finally here.

Who's down for a Destiny 2 stream soon? I'll set it up so that you all can listen to the Sennheiser GSX 1000's virtual 7.1 mix in action. I may stream other games, but Destiny 2's the main one on my mind since work and other obligations keep getting in the way of me making progress on the recently-released PC version. Kinda hoping to team up with a couple of my friends (whom I largely bought the game just to co-op with) while I'm at it, too.

I'm hoping that Twitch and NVIDIA ShadowPlay keep the audio quality intact enough for people to form good impressions, at any rate. There's a good reason that I want to show this off.


----------



## cskippy

NamelessPFG said:


> All right, I'm done with work for tonight, and the weekend's finally here.
> 
> Who's down for a Destiny 2 stream soon? I'll set it up so that you all can listen to the Sennheiser GSX 1000's virtual 7.1 mix in action.


What's your twitch stream?  Got a link?


----------



## NamelessPFG (Oct 28, 2017)

cskippy said:


> What's your twitch stream?  Got a link?


Oh, right, I should've linked that! It's, quite unsurprisingly, https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg

I probably won't be streaming for several hours yet; 2am here on the US East Coast, I should rest up a bit. I don't know when I'll start, but it'll probably be in the afternoon. 2pm-4pm Eastern, maybe?

Also, I haven't streamed in _years,_ so I suppose I should watch out for any technical issues while starting that could stem from NVIDIA ShadowPlay or making poor video encoding choices for a mere 12.6 Mbps upload connection (_THANKS COMCAST_). Gotta have 60 FPS if I can swing it, though the real question is if I can also do 1080p at reasonable quality with that framerate.


----------



## cskippy

What the heck, I looked up your name as it is here and nothing.  I'll check it out, thanks!


----------



## NamelessPFG

Okay, I admit my plans to stream got _considerably delayed_ for a litany of reasons, not least of which was troubleshooting a little "backwards audio" issue last night, but I think I'm ready to go now - at around 6:30pm Eastern, compared to my original estimate.

Don't worry about missing out; this is gonna run all night, several hours straight! Gotta catch up to everyone else, after all, and it gives you all time to form your impressions on the GSX 1000 if Twitch doesn't mangle the audio quality too much.
https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg


----------



## cskippy

Watching right now.  The rear positional cues are outstanding, as is the sound stage from your head.  Very cool!


----------



## NamelessPFG

cskippy said:


> Watching right now.  The rear positional cues are outstanding, as is the sound stage from your head.  Very cool!


Good to hear that it works! It seemed like nobody else was watching, so I hardly got any feedback about it, chat or otherwise.

While Twitch doesn't seem to be giving me the promised 60 FPS I wanted to stream with on my second monitor, if the audio cues are going through, clearly it's working out. It helps that Destiny 2's overall sound mixing and design is pretty good.

Meanwhile, I'm taking a dinner break. Gotta feed myself, after all. I'll resume streaming soon-ish, since I can't seem to pry myself away from this game.


----------



## rudyae86

NamelessPFG said:


> Don't worry, you and the others didn't scare me off or anything. I just found out what I wanted along this crazy audiophile journey and _had to keep out of here for my wallet's sake._ Otherwise, I'd probably still be sinking hundreds, if not _thousands_ into Stax setups, maybe with a Smyth Realiser on top. Oh, and I really need to order a replacement driver or two for my MMX 300 already so I have a fallback in case something happens to my PC360.
> 
> What actually brought me back, though, was the sudden opportunity to review some Sennheiser gear - *specifically the GAME ZERO headset (a closed-back version of the PC360/GAME ONE, from what I can tell)* and the GSX 1000 USB "sound card" (DAC, ADC, and driverless 7.1 surround DSP, all in one plug-and-play unit). I need more time to form some solid impressions on both pieces of gear before I go writing anything up, though.
> 
> I would've also come back if I had the Ossic X to review, but yeah, I'm still waiting on that one, just like everybody else.



Actually, the G4ME Zero is based off from the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition, which is also a gaming headset. I had it and I liked it but I never tried the Zero, especially the 50ohm version of the Zero. The PC350 SE was/is 150ohm and so is the 1st gen or V.1 of the Zero. The 2nd gen or V.2 of the Zero is 50ohm, difference are unknown to me from V1 to V2 so you might need to research that a bit.


----------



## NamelessPFG

rudyae86 said:


> Actually, the G4ME Zero is based off from the Sennheiser PC350 Special Edition, which is also a gaming headset. I had it and I liked it but I never tried the Zero, especially the 50ohm version of the Zero. The PC350 SE was/is 150ohm and so is the 1st gen or V.1 of the Zero. The 2nd gen or V.2 of the Zero is 50ohm, difference are unknown to me from V1 to V2 so you might need to research that a bit.


I thought the PC350 didn't have the flip-up-to-mute mic boom and had the mute switch and volume control in-line rather than on the headset itself, actually. Maybe the Special Edition lifted those features from the PC360 - and on that note, I was actually trying to figure out if there was any difference whatsoever between the SE and non-SE versions of the PC360.

The second-gen GAME ZERO (note that it's _not_ "G4ME" like a first-gen model) is what I was supplied alongside the GSX 1000, so it bears 50-ohm impedance and a spiffy detachable cable that I wish I could retrofit into my PC360 somehow. Other than dropping the mild 1337-speak branding there, I'm not aware of any differences otherwise.


----------



## mashuto

NamelessPFG said:


> Okay, I admit my plans to stream got _considerably delayed_ for a litany of reasons, not least of which was troubleshooting a little "backwards audio" issue last night, but I think I'm ready to go now - at around 6:30pm Eastern, compared to my original estimate.
> 
> Don't worry about missing out; this is gonna run all night, several hours straight! Gotta catch up to everyone else, after all, and it gives you all time to form your impressions on the GSX 1000 if Twitch doesn't mangle the audio quality too much.
> https://go.twitch.tv/namelesspfg



Wasnt able to check out your stream, but how do you find the positional cues on the gsx 1000? I honestly just heard about it this weekend and am very interested in it as I have been searching out vss solutions. I currently use waves nx, have you compared the two? I find waves nx to be pretty good, but if there is something better I am definitely interested. I however dont really think I want to buy new headphones just for gaming as I am quite satisfied with my senn hd6xx overall, but I have read that the gsx 1000 is going to be underpowered for those. I am currently using a modi2/magni2 stack and have read that its possible to output the headphone output from the gsx to the magni, but it may not be the best idea.


----------



## NamelessPFG

mashuto said:


> Wasnt able to check out your stream, but how do you find the positional cues on the gsx 1000? I honestly just heard about it this weekend and am very interested in it as I have been searching out vss solutions. I currently use waves nx, have you compared the two? I find waves nx to be pretty good, but if there is something better I am definitely interested. I however dont really think I want to buy new headphones just for gaming as I am quite satisfied with my senn hd6xx overall, but I have read that the gsx 1000 is going to be underpowered for those. I am currently using a modi2/magni2 stack and have read that its possible to output the headphone output from the gsx to the magni, but it may not be the best idea.


To cut it short: _I think Sennheiser just got everyone beat on virtual 7.1._ Well, maybe save for the Smyth Realiser, but let's be realistic now - that thing's out of the budget of most people.

The positional cues in Destiny 2 seem clearer to me on the GSX 1000 than my X-Fi Titanium HD, which is saying something considering that nothing else I tried could win me away from CMSS-3D Headphone even in newer games that just perform 7.1 speaker mixing at most. It's also effectively "driverless" (that is, it uses the OS's built-in USB drivers and nothing more) and only needs a bit of configuration to tell Windows to use it in 7.1 speaker mode, maybe with a side of setting all the communication apps to the "headset" output instead of the speaker one. (Windows also _defaults_ to said headset output when you first plug it in, so you have to switch it over manually.) It's quite significant given how... _quirky_ Creative drivers can be at random.

However, in terms of audio quality, it's far from flawless. I don't notice any hiss when connecting my GAME ZERO or PC360 directly (which already gives it a leg up over those old Astro Mixamps based on MLE's impressions), but feeding the output into my X-Fi's aux-in ruthlessly reveals an audible noise floor that I have to dial the input down five or six decibels on before it goes away. By contrast, I quickly tested my Galaxy Note 8 with the same cable and aux input, and despite not being an audiophile phone (that's a niche LG's V-series has all to itself), the noise floor was at least practically silent.

It's one of the big reasons I feel that Sennheiser should shave $100 off the MSRP, as I'm sure your Schiit stack handily spanks it on pure audio quality and amplification, and so does any competent sound card _that also has virtual surround for headphones as part of its driver set_. $200+ demands something that doesn't deliver less than the lauded ODAC + O2 or Modi + Magni combos in audio quality, while still packing the awesome virtual 7.1 mix, independent chat mixing (headset output in Windows + volume knob on the side), and a good ADC for the mic input.

Heck, I wouldn't mind a glorified preamp/pro mic interface version of the GSX 1000 that's meant to be used in conjunction with a proper headphone amp, perhaps even an external S/PDIF DAC. It'd leave a pure path for the DSP'd signal to shine through, and still keep the relative driverlessness intact.

But with all that criticism about general audio fidelity, my point still stands: out of everything I've tried for a virtual 7.1 speaker mix to date, Sennheiser comes out on top. The Smyth Realiser might dethrone it if I get my PRIR recorded in a nice theater, but the chances of that happening are slim to none.

I do admit, I haven't tried Waves NX or anything else software-based that isn't Razer Surround or X-Fi MB2/3 yet. Razer's implementation left me disappointed, and the latter's only something I dabble with if I'm mucking about with an integrated Realtek codec on some computer without an actual X-Fi card installed in the hopes that I can restore EAX support for older games. Maybe the other implementations being sold out there fare a bit better.


----------



## mashuto

NamelessPFG said:


> To cut it short: _I think Sennheiser just got everyone beat on virtual 7.1._ Well, maybe save for the Smyth Realiser, but let's be realistic now - that thing's out of the budget of most people.



Many thanks for the reply. Yes, I would love to check out the smyth realiser... but at that price, its going to have to be something I wait a while for and really seriously consider if its worth it. And for gaming itself, the head tracking isn't really necessary since I want the positional cues to be relative to the view, not directly to my head.

So, yes, I definitely agree that it would be nice if the gsx1000 was simply the dac and I could feed it properly to the amp I already have (especially if it was priced more appropriately). That said, I am willing to spend what they are asking to have the best vss available (again, other than the realiser).

Waves nx has actually been pretty decent, but as a virtual surround device its still somewhat difficult to tell exactly how windows sees it, as an actual 5.1 device or just a 2 channel device. And for games like bf1, which are reliant on the windows config, it can be hard to tell if im getting real positional cues or just think I am (and making judgement calls based on what I can see on the screen). Would still like to try other options. Though I do like that they allow you to input your measurements to tweak the hrtf to your head specifically.

So, if I was to get the gsx1000, it sounds like it may not be powerful enough to properly power my HD6XX. And it sounds like the double amping solution may not be the best, so would I have to look at getting a new headset too? Is there anything that pairs particularly well with the gsx1000 strictly from a gaming/positional audio standpoint? For music/movies/everything else, my schitt stack and hd6xx are fine.


----------



## rudyae86

NamelessPFG said:


> I thought the PC350 didn't have the flip-up-to-mute mic boom and had the mute switch and volume control in-line rather than on the headset itself, actually. Maybe the Special Edition lifted those features from the PC360 - and on that note, I was actually trying to figure out if there was any difference whatsoever between the SE and non-SE versions of the PC360.
> 
> The second-gen GAME ZERO (note that it's _not_ "G4ME" like a first-gen model) is what I was supplied alongside the GSX 1000, so it bears 50-ohm impedance and a spiffy detachable cable that I wish I could retrofit into my PC360 somehow. Other than dropping the mild 1337-speak branding there, I'm not aware of any differences otherwise.



I don't think the PC350 has that but the PC350 SE (Special Edition) does. Also, I don't think the PC360 has an SE version, it was just PC360....


----------



## mindbomb

Have you guys seen this guide on reddit to get a bunch of virtual surround sound tech (including dolby, sennheiser, and creative) in software for free? https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...e_every_headphone_surround_virtualization_on/

Someone recorded the output of all of them and they can be reconstructed with the convolver in equalizer apo. Remember to give yourself a few days to get used to any new algorithm.


----------



## illram

Saw that. Want to try it but have been lazy, and I am more or less satisfied with SBX Pro. (Until the Realiser comes in...)


----------



## Johnsonr520

Haven’t been on this thread in awhile since this thread taught me the perfect gaming set up ( personal opinion of course). I am currently using an Astro MixAmp pro with hd558 and an ant lion mod mic. This has worked great on my Xbox one, but I am about to pick up the Xbox 1x and I have no idea what will be changing with the new Dolby Atmos. Any suggestions on how to go about getting the best surround sound headphone gaming with the X? Preferably keeping my current mic and headphones. Sorry if this has been answered already.


----------



## Yethal

Johnsonr520 said:


> Haven’t been on this thread in awhile since this thread taught me the perfect gaming set up ( personal opinion of course). I am currently using an Astro MixAmp pro with hd558 and an ant lion mod mic. This has worked great on my Xbox one, but I am about to pick up the Xbox 1x and I have no idea what will be changing with the new Dolby Atmos. Any suggestions on how to go about getting the best surround sound headphone gaming with the X? Preferably keeping my current mic and headphones. Sorry if this has been answered already.


If atmos sounds good enough for your ears then You may just swap it for a portable amp and yse the 558 straight out of xbox one controller.


----------



## illram (Nov 7, 2017)

You can use Atmos for headphones or Windows Sonic via the optical out also.


----------



## EsaT

Has anyone experience how Beyerdynamic's Amiron Home and/or DT1990 compare to some listed headphones?
Like AKG K712 or Beyerdynamic DT990/Sennheiser HD595/8.
Currently have DT990 and "tape keeping pieces from dropping" HD595...

Can definitely confirm that neutral bass is best for distinguishing footsteps etc, but for "fun factor"/immersion it leaves rather "empty feeling".
(especially with CMSS-3D which "pre-kills" bass... though Dolby Heaphone isn't bass shy)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Johnsonr520 said:


> Haven’t been on this thread in awhile since this thread taught me the perfect gaming set up ( personal opinion of course). I am currently using an Astro MixAmp pro with hd558 and an ant lion mod mic. This has worked great on my Xbox one, but I am about to pick up the Xbox 1x and I have no idea what will be changing with the new Dolby Atmos. Any suggestions on how to go about getting the best surround sound headphone gaming with the X? Preferably keeping my current mic and headphones. Sorry if this has been answered already.


I'm going to assume the Dolby Atmos on the xBox One X is processed (headphone surround sound) before the audio signal is sent out the optical port of the xBox One X, to the Astro Mix-amp.
So if you leave any headphone surround sound feature on the Mix-amp disabled, the Mia-map should act like a DAC/amp, 2-channels of digital audio sent (thru optical) into the mix-amp and 2-channel of analog out sent out the the mix-amp, to the headphones (HD558).
You might get better audio quality if you replace the Mix-amp, Hifimediy sells a DAC with optical input, for $59.
https://hifimediy.com/SPDIF-9018-DAC


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 11, 2018)

SURPRISE!!! I'm here to give you guys a review of the Sennheiser GAME ONE open-backed gaming headset. Hope you guys enjoy it.
A few things to note:

11-10-2017

Sennheiser GAME ONE Review added

1.. It has come to my attention that the GAME ONE in build and sound quality is the exact same as the PC37X, which can be found for $120 in Massdrop, making it an even better bargain. I won't put that into the review itself as I don't have the PC37X on hand, but keep that in mind.

2.. A huge thanks to @Evshrug  for pretty much forcing me to review these, so make sure to thank him from bringing me back from the dead. 

Anyways, HERE'S THE REVIEW:



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*Sennheiser GAME ONE (*headset*)*





As of November 2017: $179.95 (GAME ONE Black version)
*Where To Buy*: Amazon (GAME ONE)



Spoiler: Review



It seems fitting that Sennheiser would be the manufacturer to bring me back to at least one more review. Throughout the years, Sennheiser has been a dearly beloved company near and dear to my heart for bringing me amazing headphones like the HD650, PX100-II, PC360. Even some I haven't reviewed, yet still own like the neckband style, imported PMX95, which finds daily use in my home.

I was approached online by fellow Head-fier, and Sennheiser online rep, @Evshrug to review the GAME ONE. As adamant as I was against reviewing again, I eventually caved, and agreed I'd take a look into the GAME ONE. One reason for reluctance is that I had already reviewed the PC360 and felt the review said all that needed to be said, I could just update to account for the differences. However, I did consider this being more of an 'updated' review to my later style and standard, which the PC360 review was far from.

To my surprise, Evs told me that the voicing had been changed a bit from the PC360, and as such, felt it was a good enough reason to jump back into it, IF the Game One was worth reviewing. Thankfully, there was never really a concern that Sennheiser wouldn't deliver yet another compelling product.



*Build Quality:*

If the name hadn't already given it away, the GAME ONE, in all its white glory definitely gives off a vibe of being headset aimed directly at gamers. Personally, I prefer the muted dark colors of the black version (as well as those of the PC360), but there is a charm about a headset that is easily identifiable and contrasts my general black/grey decor. The white version's subtle selection of colors blend together nicely, which is more than can be said of most gaming headsets out there. Even entering a party oriented for gamers, Sennheiser knows how to arrive well dressed.

Headband:

The GAME ONE's headband is the only section that is kept strictly business, akin to the PC360. All matte black plastic, with only some silver 'Sennheiser' lettering on the top left section of the headband. The underside holds a generous amount of velour padding to rest directly on the top of the head. The extension arms are thin but sturdy, with plenty of length for all head sizes. There are clicks when extending, but no notches to count, so it may not be the easiest to get both sides to end up perfectly equal in size, if you find that type of thing massively important.

Cups:

Typical to most Sennheiser headphones I've reviewed, the cups are oval in shape. There is minimal swivel (just enough for secure fit), but plenty of vertical pivot in the cups (45 degrees if my calculations are correct). Aesthetically, the cups are white with a glossy fisnish, with some subtle, red accents. The outer cups both yield the grills which are more like horizontally slotted lines, they being the only means for the sound to escape. Inspecting them, you would think these slots are much too small to give the GAME ONE an open sound, but they are definitely enough to fulfill that very purpose.

The outer right cup houses the volume dial which I find slightly insensitive in terms of travel to volume change ratio. This is a good thing, as miniscule tuning of volume is easily made with the Game One's volume dial. From my testing, it appears the volume dial doesn't mute the audio completely, yet goes low enough to allow for your attention to be diverted to the outside world.

The outer left cup holds the lengthy boom mic which has a black matte rubbery portion in the middle to allow some bending. Positioning the mic upwards mutes the mic as labelled on the cup itself where the mic is attached. The bottom of this cup is also where the cable input is located. Looks to be 2.5mm, and only needs the detachable cables to be pushed in; no twist and lock mechanism. I find this perfectly adequate, and more versatile if cable swaps/mods are something deemed worthwhile.

Ear Pads:

Dense, if a little plush black velour oval pads, which breathe easy, are generously large, deep, and ultimately top notch in comfort. They snap off the headphone easily, where you can see a plastic ring permanently attached to the underside of the pads which snap back onto the small 'teeth' on the driver housing. This is one of the easiest attachment/removal designs I've seen on any headphone.

Cables:

The GAME ONE comes with two cables in the package. A lengthy 3 meter cable which terminates into both a 3.5mm audio plug, and 3.5mm microphone plug. The cable is moderately thin but well made, sleeved, and light.

The other cable is a short 1.2mm cable with a TRRS plug. It's the same quality as its longer counterpart. I see this as a cable to be used for devices close to you, such as a PS4's dualshock 4 controller with audio input, or a mobile device.

I would have liked to seen a Y cable adapter for the longer cable that joins both audio/chat together into one TRRS plug, for people whose devices are considerably further than 1.2m.


Final Build Impressions:

The GAME ONE, like the PC360 is made of highly durable plastics that I feel will take moderate abuse without any major issues. The white gloss finish is considerably more prone to fingerprints, but outside of that, there's really nothing bad that can be said of the build quality here.



*Accessories:*

The GAME ONE is barren of any accessories. Just the headset, and the two detachable cables, that's it. As stated earlier, I would have liked to see a Y cable into TRRS plug, as well as a 1/4" (6.3mm) adapter, because we can't have too many of those, and some people may like to use the GAME ONE with their amps.

Other than those omissions, I'm perfectly fine with sticking to the bare necessities for the sake of saving on unnecessary material wastes and items I'd store away and forget about anyways.



*Comfort:*

Weight:

At 300g, the Sennheiser is far from heavy, though not the lightest pair of headphones I've used. It falls somewhere in the middle, which I find adequate and far from cumbersome. It feels generally fine. Weight isn't really a pro or con here in terms of comfort.

Headband:

The GAME ONE's headband, like the PC360, has its wonderfully velour padded underside which rests comfortably on the head. I don't feel any hot spots, sore spots, or any other form of indescribable spots coming from the headband. Generally excellent all around.

Ear Pads:

Large enough to fit most ear sizes, and deep enough to keep your ears from bottoming out and pressing against the driver enclosure. The pads are soft velour, if a little dense. I can wear the GAME ONE for hours and not feel the need to take them off due to trapped heat (though I do have to taken them off for another reason described below). They are excellently cool to my ears. The pads are a source of comfort, and I can see why Sennheiser hasn't changed this design in many years. Don't fix it if it ain't broken.

Clamp:

This is the one debatable area in comfort for me, as it tends to be with most Sennheiser headphones. The GAME ONE isn't exactly heavy on clamp, but it is moderate and enough for me to feel the need to stretch out the headband a bit. I do feel some unwanted pressure from the area around my ears due to the clamp. Not much, but enough to remove the headphones at random intervals to relieve some of that pressure. It's really no big deal, and something you grow accustomed to with Sennheiser headphones. The upside is the very secure fit you will always have with the GAME ONE.

Overall Comfort Impressions:

The GAME ONE falls under the list of headphones I can wear all day with a few breaks to relieve some clamp pressure. That's a win in my book, and I consider the GAME ONE to be generally comfortable overall. If I were to give it one of my old system ratings, I'd say "Very Good".



*Isolation/Leakage:*

As an open-backed 'acoustic' design, the GAME ONE isn't for those who want supreme noise control, isolation, and leakage kept to a minimum. It's not the loudest open design out there, but you definitely don't want to use the GAME ONE at loud volumes in quiet settings. Behind a closed door, there shouldn't any major issues disturbing others, however. External sources of noise can easily be heard through the headphone, so you may want to consider a closed-backed headphone/headset if external noises bother you.



*Sound:*

This is where it gets interesting for the GAME ONE. I, and I'm sure many of you who read this review would think this to be just a rehash of the PC360. But truth be told, the GAME ONE has something the PC360 lacked: musicality. While it has been quite a long while since I've heard the PC360 (within a year, as one of my close IRL friends owns one), one thing remains: It's a very balanced, safe headphone that isn't immediately engaging or musical. It presents audio in a fairly even manner, but doesn't do it any favors in terms of engaging its audience. In that sense, the PC360 is a stellar gaming headphone in that it gives you the sound you need to hear for better or worse. It makes for an excellent competitive gaming headphone where your primary focus is the action, and the audio relative to that action. Not so much for the immersion or enjoyment factor.

The GAME ONE on the other hand is more 'romantic'. More impactful. More bass, which was a bit dry and lacking in the PC360 in comparison. To go further into detail, let's start with just that, the bass.



*Bass:*

The GAME ONE, isn't a bass reliant headphone. You may have received this impression from what I said earlier. What I meant is that unlike the PC360's mostly linear, if boring approach to the sound as to not emphasize any particular aspect, the GAME ONE sounds, a little more enhanced, tastefully, to give it a sense of existence. A presence, a body that the PC360 lacked. More emotional weight to bass. Where you could 'hear' bass in the PC360, you can 'feel' it in the GAME ONE. Ultimately, I prefer the GAME ONE's rendition of bass over the weightless PC360's presentation of bass. It's not apples to oranges, but there is a difference.

Into the specific details: the GAME ONE goes as far down as 30hz in terms of audible rumble, with decent texture and volume at 35hz up, with 45hz being a great sub rumble point. Mid-bass at 60-120hz is audible and never over-intrusive, and high bass to low mid being well presented without overwhelming the midrange.

There is a rumble to the sound that just isn't there on the PC360 and HD650. It fills out the body, weight of the sound, enveloping the sonic atmosphere in ways those headphones lacked a bit in. Again, it isn't a basshead level headset. It is, however, a more flavorful, quality selection of 'meat'. There's more to chew on here. Think of it like the darker, deeper signature of AKG's K712 Pro compared to the classic, leaner AKG 701. Not so much, as the PC360 and HD650 are both generally warm to begin with, but there's an additional infusion of musicality to its bass.

Mind you, the GAME ONE is still classic Sennheiser, and I'm not saying it's night and day different vs the PC360. But there is more presence south that wasn't quite as 'there' on the PC360.

In terms of quantity, the GAME ONE is not overindulgent in bass over the rest of the frequencies, so I'd put it as present over the mid and treble ranges if just a bit.

In terms of quality, I feel it is good for an open dynamic with some textured rumble, and average speed decay. It's not the fastest in terms of speed, or the clearest, most textured bass I've heard, but it does generally well in those regards.

To sum up the bass, I'm in favor of the changes, and feel it makes the GAME ONE a better, more versatile headset over the generally safe bass levels of the PC360 which translate well into competitive gaming, but lacks a bit for immersion, engagement, and non-gaming instances, such as music playback. If bass is a factor for you, I'd choose the GAME ONE over the PC360, but there are better options that have more meat in the bass regions. That being said, it's just ultimately a more fun, enjoyable experience than the PC360 of old. I can easily rock out with the GAME ONE. I could not say the same for the PC360, as great a headset as it was.


*Midrange:*

While the PC360 kept everything generally even and well balanced, nothing too forward, or too behind in the sound, the GAME ONE's slightly deeper bass levels have pushed some midrange forwardness back at times. Consider yourself sitting a few rows further back from the front of the stage, unlike the PC360 where you're mostly in the middle seats.

In terms of frequencies, there seems to be a few dips at around 1.6khz, and 6khz, while the rest staying a very good level relative to the rest of the sound. Its strongest/loudest point is 5khz, and even then, there is no overwhelming levels of brightness anywhere in the sound. Overall, the midrange is well reigned in, and generally silky smooth.

The act of putting the midrange a few rows back may not be ideal to some people, but it helps to add a sense of space between you and the sound, making the staging larger, which aids gaming purposes quite well, where things aren't typically in your face. Remember, this is a gaming headset first, musical headphone second.

Don't get me wrong, the midrange isn't recessed in the way, say a Beyerdynamic DT990 is. It is still well balanced and present. It's just placed a smidge further back. Not so in your face.

In terms of vocals, male vocals don't seem to suffer in the least bit, and feel as ever present as expected. Some female vocals may sound further back in comparison.

In the end, I feel the GAME ZERO's midrange is placed on an even level with most of the midbass and treble ranges. The midrange is as present as the rest of the sound.



*Treble:*

The GAME ZERO's treble is free of any harsh sibilance, harshness and other glaring flaws. There is audible presence at 12khz which is far from a problem area generally speaking. 10khz seems about on par with the rest of the sound, which means the GAME ONE's tonality ends up warm, mostly smooth with a hint of sparkle. There is no veil here, though the lower treble at 7.5khz does have a noticeable dip that smooths out any problem that could arise from that area of the sound.

The GAME ONE may not be the sparkliest, airiest tonality sound out there, but it still manages to give off a large sense of space.

The treble range is free of bothersome characteristics and will keep your ears fatigue free through extended periods of use.



*Soundstage:*

I tend not to focus much on soundstaging in terms of stereo music listening as most headphones I feel keep things close to the ears, the GAME ONE being no exception. Outside of some planarmagnetic headphones which do amazingly well in terms of soundstage depth and imaging, I feel most headphones keep things in an horizontally longish oval shape between my ears.

It isn't constricted and kept inside my head, but I'm not one to think that sounds just outside my headspace is considered huge. It is with virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone, and Creative SBX where I can gauge how well a headphone or headset can fool me into thinking sounds are coming from around me as opposed to inside my head. In that regard, the GAME ONE like the PC360 throws out a FANTASTICALLY large soundstage with a great sense of space and directionality. The GAME ONE for virtual surround gaming is an absolute treat. There is clear distance between positional cues in a 360 degree front to back circle. This means the GAME ONE is in the upper echelons of headphones/headsets tested for positional accuracy when gaming.



*Clarity:*

Despite the smoother, warmer tonality of the GAME ONE, it isn't a veiled or subdued headphone in terms of clarity. It isn't as crisp and vibrant as an AKG K702, Audio Technical AD700, or  Beyerdynamic T70, but for a warm headphone, it is among the clearest I've heard, and shouldn't be considered lacking in this regard. You definitely want to feed it high quality files. Questionable quality material may sound muffled and veiled.

The bass isn't intrusive to the rest of the sound, even if its ambience is ever present.

The midrange clarity is pretty good, if only a little pushed back at times.

The treble range despite being smooth has some sparkle in a non-fatiguing manner.

If I had to rate the clarity, I'd put it as 'Good' particularly for a warm headphone.



*Sound Signature:*

Tonality: Warm,  decent bass presence, slightly pushed back midrange. Treble is even with the midrange.

Bass: Warm, enveloping, ambient. Mid bass isn't overly pronounced and transitions to the midragnge well. Bass is average speed. Good texture.

Midrange: Warm, medium body, well balanced, a few dips, slightly pushed back. Stronger male vocals, not as forward female vocals. Sibilance-free.

Treble: Smooth, non-fatiguing, a hint of sparkle, but generally pleasing, even after all day use.

Soundstage: Wide oval, fantastic size in virtual surround. Plenty of distance.

If you like a good balance, warmth, and non-fatiguing signature, the GAME ONE has you covered. It isn't bright, piercing, or aggressive, which you may like, and have to look for elsewhere.



*Microphone:*



As you can hear, it's a pretty natural sounding microphone that is clear, with no sibilance. I'd put it just slightly below the Beyerdynamic MMX300's mic as far as the ones I've tested to date. I don't think anyone would have any real issues with this mic. It's excellent.



*Amping:*

At 116db in sound pressure level, the GAME ONE can be amped by anything and everything to ridiculously high volume levels. It is a very, very sensitive headset, that is even astoundingly loud off my Noble Audio BTS (bluetooth solution) (thanks to @Stillhart for gifting this to me a while ago). The GAME ONE, needs very little power. The PS4's dualshock 4 can drive it loud, which is more than I can say for other headphones I own which are made with portability in mind. Long story short, do not concern yourself with how well the GAME ONE can be driven. It needs next to nothing.

I would definitely lean on using a neutral to detail oriented amp, as the GAME ONE has enough warmth by itself.



*Gaming:*

The GAME ONE would have to live up to its name for gaming, or Sennheiser would need to rethink its naming schemes here. Thankfully, the GAME ONE delivers.

The bass rumble is good for the immersive aspects of video games. Atmosphere, darkness, looming sense of dread. All are represented quite well with the GAME ONE. Explosive, dynamic, and immediately engaging, though not as immersive as something more bass reliant like a DT880/990.

Soundstage in virtual surround is among the best I've heard heard for gaming, which makes positional accuracy top notch, and that much of an edge over those with lesser headsets/headphones.

The details are represented well enough with the GAME ONE, all but the strictest of game analyzing can be done without major issue. It may not be as immediately analytical as its older sibling the PC360, but if you do more than just game competitively, I feel the GAME ONE is that much more fun, and versatile. It is a joy to use for all gaming purposes. I would pick the GAME ZERO over the PC360 every time, as a mostly casual gamer.



*Personal Recommendation?*

Better than the PC360 in versatility, engagement, and musicality, I feel the GAME ONE is a great all arounder which can be enjoyable for all types of purposes. The bass levels really brings out some energy and grit not found in the tonally balanced, albeit a bit safe, and even boring in comparison, PC360.

General media consumption, as it does most things well, so TV shows, movies will sound great off the GAME ZERO.

Most genres of music, slightly less so female vocal heavy ones, if vocal forwardness is a priority. Gaming first, music second.



*Final Impressions:*

The GAME ONE, is an all-rounder headset through and through. Like the general, all purpose tool that was the PC360, the GAME ZERO can be used for all manner of things in audio. The difference is that it adds more musicality, personality, and flavor. It's apples to juicier apples, so your mileage may vary.

As of late 2017, while it has been a long time since I've focused on audio, I can safely say that there isn't a headset I'd choose over the GAME ONE. Not the A40, not the PC360, none. It simply has everything I'd need for ALL home purposes. Musicality, bass without it being overly, fairly balance midrange and treble that isn't fatiguing, and amazingly spacious soundstage and positional accuracy, there is little to critique on the GAME ONE. The midrange isn't particularly a strength, but it isn't a detriment either, unless that is where you want to focus. For the main purpose of gaming, I feel the midrange is presented well enough to ever consider it a problem.

If you're in search of fun headset with great sound quality, not much of a reason to search past the GAME ONE. It's equipped with all you need, really. I highly doubt many will find fault with it.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Pros:

Nice bass for an open dynamic
atmospheric
soundstaging
positional accuracy


Cons:

Clamp
Midrange a little pushed back at times
Not ideal for poor quality files



*Unfiltered Thoughts:*

Having been gone from the audio game for so long, I wasn't particularly expecting anything coming into this review. I know Sennheiser, and I know they know their audio. I came away as impressed with the GAME ONE as I was initially with the PC360, if not more so due to a more engaging tonality. I like my audio like I like my games: fun. There is a time and place for dry, analytical, sterile sounding headphones, but I feel those are niche with very few reasons to own one over a better, all purpose headphone that may be a little colored for fun. For me, as long as a headphone can retrieve details well enough while still engaging me with its sound, I consider that a winner in my book. The GAME ONE is a clear winner.

I may have embellished the differences between the PC 360 and GAME ONE so don't think it is night and day, but more like a heftier sounding PC360. The GAME ONE isn't a heavily colored headphone. It is still well balanced. I feel the need to repeat myself again in saying don't expect a bass monster, or even a basshead headphone. That is not what the GAME ONE is. It however, is just...better at engaging its audience. Take that as you will.








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## Yethal

The maker returned to bless us with his wisdom!


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## Fegefeuer

haaa, back then, many many aeons ago I told you guys that the G4ME One was different from the PC 360. AGES GO.
WHAT DO I GET NOW

ah, nevermind, I get MLE back. That's good enough.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys.

Had to edit a little since I kept saying Game Zero.

Before, I spent a lot of time just fixing that mistake quite a bit more before posting, and still missed some, lol.


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## EsaT

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 1. For some reason, this version of head-fi won't let me edit the first post stating it's too long, so I can't add this review to the guide. I'm hoping the mods can add it for me, as well as edit the update section to add this with


Well, at least forum software hasn't gone nuts from length of the thread...
IIRC in few forums thread length exceeding certain limit has caused some nastier problems.


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## kashim

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SURPRISE!!! I'm here to give you guys a review of the Sennheiser GAME ONE open-backed gaming headset. Hope you guys enjoy it.
> A few things to note:
> 
> 1. For some reason, this version of head-fi won't let me edit the first post stating it's too long, so I can't add this review to the guide. I'm hoping the mods can add it for me, as well as edit the update section to add this with:
> ...


your review are simply awesome!!!only one question,i actually have ad700x with modmic v4...do you think game one are better for gaming or not?
p.s. 
i use my headphone for fps  gaming and have a 5.1 for single player and immersive games


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## cskippy

Whelp.  Needed a good mic to talk to team mates on Discord.  Ordered a Game One and will have it when it's back in stock.  I'll post a review and measurements once I have some time with it.  Thanks @Mad Lust Envy!


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## Mad Lust Envy

kashim said:


> your review are simply awesome!!!only one question,i actually have ad700x with modmic v4...do you think game one are better for gaming or not?
> p.s.
> i use my headphone for fps  gaming and have a 5.1 for single player and immersive games



The GO is infinitely more engaging than the AD700, though if so you're doing is competitive fps gaming, I don't think you need one unless you want more fullness and musicality.





cskippy said:


> Whelp.  Needed a good mic to talk to team mates on Discord.  Ordered a Game One and will have it when it's back in stock.  I'll post a review and measurements once I have some time with it.  Thanks @Mad Lust Envy!



I don't think you'll be disappointed. It's a great headset.


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## Thatonekidgr

Hey I’m brand new to this thread and I’ve read thru a good 300 pages from back to front after reading the first page thoroughly, I game competitively on Xbox one in rainbow6 currently just using hd598 with a dss2 is there anyone that can give me tips on better synergy amp+dac for the hd598 or better cans for the game in general with a recommended setup, budget around $1000. Was also wondering if anyone uses Dolby atmos or window sonic for rainbow6 and which one is a better option and just overall throw some knowledge my way, thank you.


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## Thatonekidgr (Nov 10, 2017)

And thanks mad lust envy for the thread and research in general


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## themrmikemcd

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SURPRISE!!! I'm here to give you guys a review of the Sennheiser GAME ONE open-backed gaming headset. Hope you guys enjoy it.
> A few things to note:
> 
> 1. For some reason, this version of head-fi won't let me edit the first post stating it's too long, so I can't add this review to the guide. I'm hoping the mods can add it for me, as well as edit the update section to add this with:
> ...


Dont you be a tease now... I hope more reviews are coming.. You should set up a paetron to  have people donate so you can buy more recent headphones to review! I have bought too many headphones based on your reviews and Im looking to buy more


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## raif89

Welcome back MLE! Love you reviews, you definitely have a way with words making purchasing easier.

For anyone:

I had a pair of Fidelio X1's that I dearly loved for a few years now. The pads ripped and I don't seem to have any way to get another pair, or any pair that fits for that matter. I've got a limited choice of headphones in my country and have narrowed it down to the Fidelio X2 or the AKG 712 pro. Looking for a fun, good bass, musical but somewhat accurate gaming, super comfy (wear these nearly 10 hours a day) set and just can't pick between these.

Any advice? The x2 is more expensive than the 712 for me by 100$ so if the x2 is just an upgraded better x1 I may just go for it.


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## themrmikemcd

raif89 said:


> Welcome back MLE! Love you reviews, you definitely have a way with words making purchasing easier.
> 
> For anyone:
> 
> ...


I know there was some controversy with the ear pads and glue issues on the X2 I don't know if that's been rectified or if it was just blown out of proportion but all I've ever heard about the X2s are that they are really amazing and better than the X1s. Somebody with a little more experience than me might have better information


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## abuch47

*Im sure its been done to death *but Looking for a multipurpose set of cans for music and gaming with a wide variety of genres.

Something with ease of use and hence low powered for plug and play with a variety of peripherals (phone, laptop, desktop and ps4)

thinking open back for the soundstage/imaging and something good across the board.

*heres a list Id like to update with suggestions:*

Open-back:
•AKG K712 Pro, K702, K701, K612 Pro, Q701
•Audio-Technica ATH-AD900x, ATH-AD700x, ATH-AD500x
•Beyerdynamic DT990, DT880
•HiFiMAN HE400i
•Monoprice Monolith M1060
•Philips Fidelio X2 (X2/27, HR), SHP9500(S)
•Sennheiser HD598 (SE, SR), HD558
•Status Audio OB-1
•Superlux HD681, HD681 EVO, HD668B

Closed-back:
•AKG K550, K52
•Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7
•Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus, DT770
•Status Audio CB-1
•Superlux HD669, HD662, HD662 EVO
•V-MODA Crossfade M-100

but narrowed to these *open, dynamic, easy to power* models that seem to be the *pick of the bunch:*

below $100:
•HD681 EVO
•Philips SHP9500
•OB-1

above $100:
•ATH-AD900x
•Philips X2
•DT990
•Sennheiser HD598 or 599


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## EsaT

raif89 said:


> I had a pair of Fidelio X1's that I dearly loved for a few years now. The pads ripped and I don't seem to have any way to get another pair, or any pair that fits for that matter. I've got a limited choice of headphones in my country and have narrowed it down to the Fidelio X2 or the AKG 712 pro.
> Looking for a fun, good bass, musical but somewhat accurate gaming, super comfy (wear these nearly 10 hours a day) set and just can't pick between these.
> 
> Any advice? The x2 is more expensive than the 712 for me by 100$ so if the x2 is just an upgraded better x1 I may just go for it.


Haven't had chance for longer testing, but 7xx AKGs definitely have very light feel which is never bad thing for comfort.
Also without bumps in headband there isn't that reservation.
K712's frequency response is rather similar to Fidelio and Beyerdynamic DT990 (I'm using) so it should give very good balance between having above neutral strength in bass without it starting to drown everything else.

Other aspect to consider is that as bigger more commonly sold maker you're likely to have far easier time in finding new pads for AKG than Philips...
Because eventually you'll need to replace them again, and ear pads are obviously cheaper than whole new cans.
After all we gamers sure have enough things to spend money frequently in updating PC, without also swapping things which don't get technically obsolete.


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## EsaT

abuch47 said:


> *Im sure its been done to death *but Looking for a multipurpose set of cans for music and gaming with a wide variety of genres.
> 
> Something with ease of use and hence low powered for plug and play with a variety of peripherals (phone, laptop, desktop and ps4)
> 
> ...


You have two very different type cans in that list:

AD900x and HD598/9 are very neutral bass type headphones.
Which is needed for the highest level of "competitiveness" in hearing foot steps and such.
But that also cripples "fun factor"/immersion rather badly with grenades etc not sounding of much anything.
(before DT990 had HD595... with bad experience from durability of that fashion design)

DT990 and Fidelio again have clearly above neutral bass, but without it starting to drown everything else...
Unlike in cheap (especially closed) gaming junks.
That drops competitiveness one notch down, but gives vastly better overall balance with good "fun factor"/immersion.
As for mobile use with low impedance Fidelio would be easier for low operating voltage devices, assuming noise floor of source is low.
(high sensitivity, low impedance cans are very sensitive to noise/interference)
Standard integrated Realtek chips of PCs easily drive 250 ohm DT990 far to hearing dangerous volumes.
But some weaker smart(/toy)phone output might have problems with higher dynamic range content. (32 ohm DT990 would behave similar to Fidelio)
Also for some music you might want to tone down 8kHz band in equalizer for DT990.
In games/movies that treble isn't much of problem.


----------



## AxelCloris

@Mad Lust Envy - That first post was a solid effort to clean up. So many broken calls and tags from the site transition. You should be able to edit it again.

I'm thinking that's got to be the single longest post on the site. I need a mini-vacation after that.


----------



## Thatonekidgr

Hey I’m brand new to this thread and I’ve read thru a good 300 pages from back to front after reading the first page thoroughly, I game competitively on Xbox one in rainbow6 currently just using hd598 with a dss2 is there anyone that can give me tips on better synergy amp+dac for the hd598 or better cans for the game in general with a recommended setup, budget around $1000. Was also wondering if anyone uses Dolby atmos or window sonic for rainbow6 and which one is a better option and just overallthrow some knowledge my way, thank you.


----------



## abuch47

EsaT said:


> You have two very different type cans in that list:


Yes as Im not sure which to go with as an across the board pair for music, media and competitive gaming. I will definitely go low powered for my first cans but if anyone has any more recommendations that would be great.

That info does help Im thinking more annalytical rather than fun for the competitive edge.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 11, 2017)

AxelCloris said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - That first post was a solid effort to clean up. So many broken calls and tags from the site transition. You should be able to edit it again.
> 
> I'm thinking that's got to be the single longest post on the site. I need a mini-vacation after that.










I'll go ahead and edit that post then. What would I do without you?

edit: So was able to add to the first page. I noticed you took away my underlines and stuff. :'( But a necessary sacrifice. Lol. Thanks again, m8.

was able to add Evs and Sennheiser's GAME ONE contribution to the special thanks section as well.


----------



## Yethal

Thatonekidgr said:


> Hey I’m brand new to this thread and I’ve read thru a good 300 pages from back to front after reading the first page thoroughly, I game competitively on Xbox one in rainbow6 currently just using hd598 with a dss2 is there anyone that can give me tips on better synergy amp+dac for the hd598 or better cans for the game in general with a recommended setup, budget around $1000. Was also wondering if anyone uses Dolby atmos or window sonic for rainbow6 and which one is a better option and just overallthrow some knowledge my way, thank you.


Don't read the thread from front to back, some of the info from the earliest discussions is severely outdated now.


----------



## halyosy

hello guys 

can someone help me to get best gaming experiance possible ??

right now my on the go audio gaming was AKG k702 ( no bump edition)

with a chinnese dac FX audio x-6 but i have best onboard (period on the z27x generation) an maximus ix hero motherboard so i often to switch up from onboard to my dac fx-x6

i only play comepetive CS GO , overwatch and pubg also mainstream game like dota 2 or others 

i really want the best experiance for gaming as possible i can

i laid my eyes on sennheiser GSX-1000 gaming dac/amp ??

its have good christmast price in my country arround 170 usd ish 

will the GSX-1000 boost my experiance in competitive gaming ??? 

as i really love the akg-702 i prefer it over ad700x 

or should i spend my money on better dac like chord mojo or something ??? 

please enlight me i really want the best gaming experiance as possible (if can pls no advice to change headphone cause for me this headphone is good)

thanks fellow gamers


----------



## EsaT

halyosy said:


> i laid my eyes on sennheiser GSX-1000 gaming dac/amp ??
> 
> as i really love the akg-702...
> please enlight me i really want the best gaming experiance as possible (if can pls no advice to change headphone cause for me this headphone is good)


If you read the first page of thread K702 should be among the best ones for competitive gaming.
So no need/sense to look for other headphones.
Unless you want to have more balance between some strength in bass for more fun/immersion and little lower competetitiveness.

While having good binaural-simulation that's only thing GSX has for itself.
It uses low end Conexant DAC/output buffer chip meant for budget phones.
For comparison even ~30$ budget sound cards have better D/A converters. (that's what DAC means)
And obviously GSX isn't any good at driving more demanding headphones, with integrated Realtek chips matching it and half cheaper sound cards having more beef. 
So as not a proper headphone amp or even as good DAC it's very overpriced...
(just like Razer/SteelSeries/what ever gaming brand headphones)


But now back to that what benefits headphone gaming most: binaural-simulation
Here's very good comparison...
With standard stereo at ~13mins if you want to start from super lousy "in left ear- in center of head - in right ear" immersion.

With good headphones difference between that standard stereo and then first minute is like between two different games.
Binaural simulation is something what fashionable "DACs" don't give.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2017)

I really can't give updated advice myself as I have been long gone from the headphone audio game. What I like has probably been outdone by now. The latest review was more a favor for a friend to see how good they were in my opinion.

Headphone audio, prices, quality changed considerably from when I first started reviewing.

Hell, I just noticed yesterday that such a thing as the HD660S existed. I'm sure the current mid-fi would blow my mind.

Yet, I still want a legit Denon D7000


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I really can't give updated advice myself as I have been long gone from the headphone audio game. What I like has probably been outdone by now. The latest review was more a favor for a friend to see how good they were in my opinion.
> 
> Headphone audio, prices, quality changed considerably from when I first started reviewing.
> 
> ...


You're always welcome to return to us completely!


----------



## EsaT

Mad Lust Envy said:


> IHeadphone audio, prices, quality changed considerably from when I first started reviewing.


Likely many newer models are more like "version updates"/incremental changes just like in PC part, phones etc...
Like Sennheiser HD599 replacing HD598.
(I wonder what next time because 600 is already taken)
While there's now evidently some purposeful messing:
Sennheiser also introduced closed model with HD598 model number.
Like all that naming mess of PC parts and smartphones wasn't enough....

Also Beyerdynamic DT990 Edition/Premium and Pro prices have come down considerably.


----------



## abuch47

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yet, I still want a legit Denon D7000



Did you ever try a LA7000?


----------



## Evshrug

EsaT said:


> Sennheiser also introduced closed model with HD598 model number.


The closed HD 598 was called the HD 598 Cs, but it has been replaced by the HD 569. You may find some stock of the HD 598 Cs out there, though.


----------



## Evshrug (Nov 13, 2017)

halyosy said:


> will the GSX-1000 boost my experiance in competitive gaming ???
> 
> ...
> 
> or should i spend my money on better dac like chord mojo or something ???



Well, the key difference is you are talking about a surround DSP/DAC/Amp of the GSX 1000 compared to “just” a DAC/Amp.

For anyone reading this who doesn’t know, a DSP is a Digital Signal Processor, which in this context is used to take Audio from different directions, apply science and math, and create a resulting audio mix that will make the stereo headphones on your two ears be able to create a convincing recreation of a sound coming from a specific direction. Why? The benefit of good DSPs is that you can tell from Audio-alone if something is in front, behind, or to the sides of a game character, or recreate a surround sound theater when watching movies. Expand the action beyond the borders of the screen in front of you, increasing immersion and awareness.
Secondly, the GSX would give you player comforts such as mic monitoring, a dial wheel to mix the volume gain balance between game and party chat, quick access to overall volume and EQ presets. As an external USB device it is able to be moved between different computer systems easily.

A DAC is a digital to analog converter, and is required to make all digital media like video games or streamed music into the analog power pulses that make headphone/speaker drivers vibrate and create sound. The more accurate the DAC, the more “true” and believable the sound will be to real life, and also provide increased resolution and separation of different sounds playing simultaneously or with greater complexity than a pure, symmetrical sine wave.

An Amplifier or Amp provides power to the electromagnets in headphones, so that the drivers can move and vibrate in a controlled fashion. Lowering the distortion or improving the slew rate helps preserve the original audio performance of the signal emitted from a DAC, and more current or voltage can help control more power-demanding headphones more easily. An amp with more gain will provide more volume.

Upgrading all or parts of these components can have a beneficial effect, but you have to decide which benefits you value the most. Would it be valueable in your gaming to upgrade from left/right/centered to surround? Would you prefer to ignore surround and focus on spending more money to increase clarity of the source game audio?





EsaT said:


> While having good binaural-simulation that's only thing GSX has for itself.


I’m in a unique position of having owned a lot of other external DSP options over many years, but not really being able to compare with other brands. Rather than simply saying “the GSX is good,” let me ask you and other interested people a few questions:

1. If someone else had a GSX, what would you ask him/her to share? Would you read their review? Would you watch someone broadcasting a demo?

2. Would you seize a chance to demo a GSX 1000 or 1200 for yourself, and share what you learn?

3. Considering other options for external DSP/DAC/Amp products from Sennheiser, Astro, Creative Labs, Logitech, and more, what benefits would you like to gain from such a product? Which benefits does the GSX products provide, what remain on the wish list?

Anyone is open to pose answers to these questions, could be a good exercise


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2017)

abuch47 said:


> Did you ever try a LA7000?



Simple answer: no.

Long answer:

No, but I've owned the TH-600 and TH-900, both which would more or less resemble what Lawton did to the D7000. That said, I know for a 100% fact, I wouldn't like the LA7000, as it would take away what I loved about the D7000 just as the TH600 and TH900 did. There's objectivity, and subjectivity. I didn't need a BETTER headphone. I needed one that had the same exact euphony and bass aspect of the D7000.

The tighter, more controlled bass of the Fostex models were exactly what I DIDN'T want coming from the D7000. And everyone said the TH-900 was like the D7000's bass but corrected. That correction was what ultimately made me give up the TH900. It wasn't what I wanted.

Again, speaking purely of preference. The longer, lingering decay is more preferable to me, than that of the Fostex. So when I see people say "the LA7000 makes the bass tighter and controlled, etc, etc" that's detrimental to what I personally want. The D7000 was special as is. Taking that away, well it's just another headphone that is close to what I wanted, but not exactly.

I think I've earned the right to say that I know what to expect from more speed and control. The amount of decay and looseness the D7000 was the perfect amount for me. No more, no less.

To sum it up, if I wanted something better than the stock D7000, I would just get a better headphone. I want the stock, untouched goodness that I remember. Nothing else.


----------



## abuch47 (Nov 13, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> .


AHD 7200 could be good for you.

Never tried either but have the chance to own a perfect con d7000 for $800 but still a bit steep


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2017)

abuch47 said:


> AHD 7200 could be good for you.
> 
> Never tried either but have the chance to own a perfect con d7000 for $800 but still a bit steep


Doubtful. I think you're misunderstanding me about the bass. The 7200 doesn't even use Fostex drivers.

The D7000 just had the perfect mixture and resonance from its cups, driver design, pads, etc. Going to a different headphone means a completely different sound. Its indescribable, but nothing does bass like the D7000 did.

Let's just say it's a D7000 specific trait. Where nothing else can emulate that specific resonance and ambient quality.


----------



## Helvetica bold

On Xbox does Atmos for headphones work through an AVR? I have my headphones plugged into the AVR. There is an HDMI connection option but I don’t think I’m getting the Atmos virtual sound in Tomb Raider.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2017)

Man, rtings review of the Game One is like polar opposite of mine. They have no sub bass, and upper bass boominess. So which is it, Sennheiser? Lol.

Their graphs do prove that, so I wouldn't say they're wrong. But I definitely wouldn't say the same of the pair I reviewed. Makes me question everything I've ever heard, ever.


----------



## illram (Nov 13, 2017)

Re: the GSX. I think the one thing it could really benefit from is compatibility with consoles, specifically, decoding Dolby Digital. Currently that is limited to the Astro and Soundblaster X7, I believe. The X7 is a more expensive "jack of all trades master of none" device that perhaps could use some more competition from a classically "audiophile" brand. (I personally own an X7, and an E5, and really like SBX and their EQ features.) The Astro meanwhile has the branding but is generally considered inferior sounding, and also they aggressively market it as paired with Astro's headphones which are overpriced for what they are.

I think in this space, the goal should be quality surround implementation first. We are all sacrificing the "pristine-ness" I guess of our audio by injecting it with VSS in the first place, so I think having for an example an amp that can actually drive a demanding headphone to loud volumes with a pleasing sound is secondary to first providing a quality VSS. While I currently find the X7 more than adequate even for demanding headphones (I've got an HD800S on it currently) we can all stick a quality amp on the front end if we want if it means the DAC device might actually be cheaper. (Assuming the product can also do VSS over line-out....) For instance my E5 lives on my secondary computer/gaming area (yes I have two...) and it's line out is feeding an iFi BL, which together sounds fantastic for PC surround gaming.

I don't know which way the industry thinks the winds are blowing however, for instance are we moving beyond channel simulation and into object based surround engines? E.g. Sonic and Atmos now being offered right in Windows or over Xbox. Game support currently is not great but perhaps this is the way the industry is headed and simulating a 5.1 or 7.1 channel mix is going to be obsolete in 5 years?? Interesting times...


----------



## cskippy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Man, rtings review of the Game One is like polar opposite of mine. They have no sub bass, and upper bass boominess. So which is it, Sennheiser? Lol.
> 
> Their graphs do prove that, so I wouldn't say they're wrong. But I definitely wouldn't say the same of the pair I reviewed. Makes me question everything I've ever heard, ever.


I'll post measurements and impressions when i get mine.  They're currently on back order from Amazon.


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## jude (Nov 13, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Man, rtings review of the Game One is like polar opposite of mine. They have no sub bass, and upper bass boominess. So which is it, Sennheiser? Lol.
> 
> Their graphs do prove that, so I wouldn't say they're wrong. But I definitely wouldn't say the same of the pair I reviewed. Makes me question everything I've ever heard, ever.



First of all, @Mad Lust Envy, I'm always happy to see a review from you, man, so thanks for posting!

After reading your review, and then reading your comments above, I decided to run quick measurements of the Sennheiser GAME ONE.

Here's the uncompensated frequency response (clicking on the graphs below will show larger sizes):




Since most in the community are used to seeing compensated frequency response measurements, below is the Sennheiser GAME ONE frequency response with diffuse field correction applied:



Below is our Sennheiser GAME ONE total harmonic distortion (THD) measurement:



I thought what follows was a bit interesting. When I first started doing the Sennheiser GAME ONE measurements, I was marveling at how inefficient these headphones are, before I realized they're _not_ inefficient -- _I had the headset volume knob turned down. _I'd already run measurements with the volume turned down about halfway, so I re-ran them with the volume turned all the way up, and, to my surprise, they were quite different.

Below are frequency response measurements of the Sennheiser GAME ONE with the volume turned down about halfway (dotted line) and turned all the way up (solid line). As above, the first graph is uncompensated (raw), and the second one has diffuse field compensation applied:






Our audio measurements in this post were made using:

*G.R.A.S. 45BB-12* KEMAR with anthropometric pinnae for low-noise earphone and headphone testing
*Audio Precision APx555* Audio Analyzer
*Audio Precision APx1701* Transducer Test Interface
*Herzan* custom acoustic/vibration isolation enclosure


----------



## DevilofLife

I about to get the Victor SU-DH1 to try on my PS4 and I have find a japanese site modding his SU-DH1 http://torapo.com/headphone/virtual/victor-su-dh1.htm#vol using google translate I think he modded the existing line in to a line out.
Can anybody that know japanese confirm if its a line out.


----------



## pythago89

Hi guys,
I had bought Senheiser Game One after spending lot of time to read this topic. I only focus on game FPS like PUBG and my Game One is perfect. But one problem i had found is that it's not loud enough, I plug it to my motherboard and i think Realtek is my problem. I was spent a hour in audio store to try Game One with GSX 1000. In stereo mode, nothing different, still not loud enough, I always set 100% volume on both PC and GSX1000. In surround mode, it louder but not too much, i set 85-90% volume on GSX.
Now Iam looking for a DAC/AMP to make my Game One louder. My interest is Xonar U7 MKII, Schiit fulla 2, creative sound blaster g5. Which is good ??

Thanks.


----------



## pietcux (Nov 14, 2017)

pythago89 said:


> Hi guys,
> I had bought Senheiser Game One after spending lot of time to read this topic. I only focus on game FPS like PUBG and my Game One is perfect. But one problem i had found is that it's not loud enough, I plug it to my motherboard and i think Realtek is my problem. I was spent a hour in audio store to try Game One with GSX 1000. In stereo mode, nothing different, still not loud enough, I always set 100% volume on both PC and GSX1000. In surround mode, it louder but not too much, i set 85-90% volume on GSX.
> Now Iam looking for a DAC/AMP to make my Game One louder. My interest is Xonar U7 MKII, Schiit fulla 2, creative sound blaster g5. Which is good ??
> 
> Thanks.


I have the GSX 1000 and the Game One. My volume sits around 24. Maybe you have the volume knob of the Game One far below 100%? That is what Jude mentioned. Last night I watched the latest Terminator movie from my Asus G74SX laptop, using the Dolby Atmos app. I had the volume below 30% on the laptop and it was very loud using the Game One, again the volume knob on the can maxed out. Btw. the Dolby Atmos app is working perfect to me, the best surround simulation for headphones I ever came across so far.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 14, 2017)

@jude, thank you so much for the graphs.

It's interesting how much the lower half of the spectrum changes depending on how high the volume on the headset itself is.

I admit I'm more used to understanding compensated curves than raw. From what Isee there, the half volume measurements more closely resembles my impressions.

I've never been one to truly understand harmonic distortion (other than headphones with more distortion up top having some ringing artifacts), but is it correct to assume that higher distortion down low be in the bass can come off as a more lingering presence/longer decay? Because my GAME ONE rumbles very well for an open backed headset.

I had the volume on the Game One at around 80/90% most of the time.

At least from what I see, down to around 45hz was essentially in balance with  most of the sound, with the higher bass being measurably louder. If just a bit.

Funny though, in actual be use, I felt more immediately grabbed by the 40-50hz range than anything the mid/upper bass did. And I have plenty of bass heavy tracks. Maybe it's just how it resonates, but to me it sounds like it was 'more' of it at least not far from mid bass in presence.

Then again it could just simply be driver variation. My only area of contention is sub bass performance which I felt was more than the graphs show on mine. The dips and peaks in the higher ranges are pretty close to what I heard, though not perfectly.


----------



## pythago89

@pietcux Thank for reply.

I dont think the volume knob far below 100%, I have checked my Game One at home with the volume on PC 100%, just adjust the volume knob on Game One.
In the audio store, i did the same thing with GSX1000 and another Game One, but feel the volume not loud enough, even with 7.1 mode of GSX 1000 ;((((
Tomorrow, i will check again in other audio store. May other DAC/AMP will make my Game One louder ??

Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Something has to be wrong with your settings if it's not loud enough. Have you plugged the Game One into anything else like your phone? The Game One should be quite loud of most things.


----------



## pythago89 (Nov 14, 2017)

Thank @Mad Lust Envy for replying.
I have plugged the Game One into my friend phone, LG V20 with chip hifi DAC and it is actually louder than my PC. I just set the volume around 70-80% and still louder compare to 100% on my PC.
I think now i have to get the DAC/AMP. Which is good for the Game One ?? ( xonar u7 mkii, fiioe10k, sound blaster G5, schii fulla 2...).  I only play game and watch movie.


----------



## pietcux (Nov 14, 2017)

pythago89 said:


> Thank @Mad Lust Envy for replying.
> I have plugged the Game One into my friend phone, LG V20 with chip hifi DAC and it is actually louder than my PC. I just set the volume around 70-80% and still louder compare to 100% on my PC.
> I think now i have to get the DAC/AMP. Which is good for the Game One ?? ( xonar u7 mkii, fiioe10k, sound blaster G5, schii fulla 2...).  I only play game and watch movie.


Please note that you have to use speakers as playback device, not headset. That is also stated in the manual. As headset it sounds very poor.


----------



## halyosy

short question (i know i ask this already but please i need reply from @Mad Lust Envy 

i really need Stepping whoring audio setup for CSGO what's the best possible setup i can get for under 600usd (maybe more if i sold my currently setup)

currently using AKG k702 no bump edition with dac/amp chinnese fx audio x6 or maximus ix hero onboard

what's the best  i can get with that amount of money ?? 

what i can buy to maximize my audio setup for stepping whoring (soundstage) thank you for your kind answer @Mad Lust Envy


----------



## Helvetica bold

I can't get the Atmos for Headphones to pass through my receiver. I have my Xbox One X connected via HDMI to my AVR but when I plug my headphones into the (Sony 1070) AVR I just get 2ch audio. No height effects. Shouldn't this work if I have the HDMI output audio selected? Has anyone tried this?


----------



## mashuto

MLE, thanks for the review, it however unfortunately makes me want to get one.

I am almost thinking that the game one would be a great addition to the gsx 1000, but I have heard that its amp is not the best and can have some hiss. Does anyone know if those two pair well? I currently have a modi2/magni2 stack powering HD6XX which overall is excellent, but I do really enjoy positional audio in games. I have been demoing a method to emulate the gsx vss in software via voicemeeter and equalizer apo (as linked by a user somewhere in this forum and on reddit a month or two ago). I like what I hear from the gsx surround mode, but the whole setup is kind of glitchy and has issues. So would the game one and gsx be a good addition to my system to sit alongside my current setup? And does the gsx actually show up properly to windows as a 7.1 device?


----------



## AxelCloris

I've been playing with the GSX 1200 PRO (which for most people will function the same as the GSX 1000) with both Sennheiser's PC 373D headset (analog cable) and the MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Open recently. I haven't run into any hissing directly from the unit, but I did experience it once when running out from the GSX into a desktop headphone amplifier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 14, 2017)

Considering how much my Creative X7 pops and crackles through usb (never through optical), I'd take a little hiss over the random pops and crackles.

@halyosy

I don't reply because I honestly can't give you a good answer. I'm sure there's some crazy good stuff out there at the price range, but personal experience tells me the K702 isn't gonna be severely outclassed for gaming until you step up probably to an HD800.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 14, 2017)

@Army-Firedawg let me know that Audeze LCD-2 classic exists? 

Man, I really have missed a lot. That's probably the #2 headphone after the D7000 that I'd kill to own. I have no interest in fazor or whatnot. The original LCD2 was perfection its own unique way. The mere fact a classic exists, leads me to believe it's because a lot of people preferred it over the newer fazor LCD2.

Hence why I'm all about subjectivity first. No matter how good a headphone is objectively, there's just no replacement for personal preference.


----------



## Army-Firedawg

Yeah man

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd2-classic


----------



## dragonuck

Hi so I dont waste my money on gaming headsets. What Im looking for is a good pair of headphones (mic not needed as I have read you can buy separate) for gaming. This is for an Xbox One, which now has Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos. The games mostly towards Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Star Wars BattleFront. I want to hear details, from footsteps to bullets passing by to the pin drop of a grenade, and able to locate the direction. So I am able to direct to my left behind or behind a wall in front, directional. I have read a good pair of studio phones are good and better when connected to an amp like the Creative SoundBlasters or Astro Mixamp pro, and those connected via optical cable to the xbox one. Now there are so many posts replies, and I have heard a good paid of Audia Technica to Philips, to Surplex... and some say the HyperX are just as good as they are a re brand of a stereo headset. So I really need some info on is an amp needed now that the xbox one has Dolby atmos etc loaded to it, or will it be beneficial, say for a pair of 7.1 surround sound setup headphones or Dolby DTS-x set of phones to work with the xbox one. or would it not matter as its a virtual surround sound, in that case I have read about drivers, drums and speakers in each headset cup. Such as 5 speakers on on ear piece that produces the surround sound correctly... to another advise on open and closed back... so you see so much info; advise from this group will help me determine what I think will be best ... as mention mic is not needed and have read some good advise on this Edit- to add to I have read too, AMP/DAC or combo. are these of use or not> are there studio headphones built with Dolby platforms in mind and does that matter. Also sound stage, please explain how this fits in, i understand open fit this better, but do you lose volume in the headset when put to gaming Again Cheers J


----------



## ls13coco

dragonuck said:


> Hi so I dont waste my money on gaming headsets. What Im looking for is a good pair of headphones (mic not needed as I have read you can buy separate) for gaming. This is for an Xbox One, which now has Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos. The games mostly towards Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Star Wars BattleFront. I want to hear details, from footsteps to bullets passing by to the pin drop of a grenade, and able to locate the direction. So I am able to direct to my left behind or behind a wall in front, directional. I have read a good pair of studio phones are good and better when connected to an amp like the Creative SoundBlasters or Astro Mixamp pro, and those connected via optical cable to the xbox one. Now there are so many posts replies, and I have heard a good paid of Audia Technica to Philips, to Surplex... and some say the HyperX are just as good as they are a re brand of a stereo headset. So I really need some info on is an amp needed now that the xbox one has Dolby atmos etc loaded to it, or will it be beneficial, say for a pair of 7.1 surround sound setup headphones or Dolby DTS-x set of phones to work with the xbox one. or would it not matter as its a virtual surround sound, in that case I have read about drivers, drums and speakers in each headset cup. Such as 5 speakers on on ear piece that produces the surround sound correctly... to another advise on open and closed back... so you see so much info; advise from this group will help me determine what I think will be best ... as mention mic is not needed and have read some good advise on this Edit- to add to I have read too, AMP/DAC or combo. are these of use or not> are there studio headphones built with Dolby platforms in mind and does that matter. Also sound stage, please explain how this fits in, i understand open fit this better, but do you lose volume in the headset when put to gaming Again Cheers J



Two of my headphones were purchased after lots of research, including this thread - for gaming. I'd go with the Fidelio X2 , or AKG 712 pro. AKG only if you have an amp, though. The Audio-Technica ADX line seems to be a very good option as well, which I almost pulled the trigger on.
All of said headphones have a large soundstage and great imaging, from experience the x2 is "funner" sounding but the 712 has more accurate imaging slightly.


----------



## dragonuck

ls13coco said:


> Two of my headphones were purchased after lots of research, including this thread - for gaming. I'd go with the Fidelio X2 , or AKG 712 pro. AKG only if you have an amp, though. The Audio-Technica ADX line seems to be a very good option as well, which I almost pulled the trigger on.
> All of said headphones have a large soundstage and great imaging, from experience the x2 is "funner" sounding but the 712 has more accurate imaging slightly.


Cheers for the reply, so from what I have been told on headsets, there range in costs, new or used, of £50 - several hundred ££s.  Keeping price down before £80, what would be the recommendation


----------



## ls13coco

dragonuck said:


> Cheers for the reply, so from what I have been told on headsets, there range in costs, new or used, of £50 - several hundred ££s.  Keeping price down before £80, what would be the recommendation



The headphone I first went to after years of gaming headsets was the Sennheiser HD 598, it changed my audio world and started this hobby. Bought it for gaming primarily and it instantly surpased the Razer, Hyper x and turtle beach gaming headphones I had before. HD 598, HD 599, ADX-700, Akg 6 or 7 series I would look at if you want to keep to a certain budget in my opinion.


----------



## pietcux

Helvetica bold said:


> I can't get the Atmos for Headphones to pass through my receiver. I have my Xbox One X connected via HDMI to my AVR but when I plug my headphones into the (Sony 1070) AVR I just get 2ch audio. No height effects. Shouldn't this work if I have the HDMI output audio selected? Has anyone tried this?


It works using USB and digital out from your computer. Maybe it is the same from Xbox, HDMI is a total different story.


----------



## EsaT

jude said:


> First of all, @Mad Lust Envy, I'm always happy to see a review from you, man, so thanks for posting!
> 
> After reading your review, and then reading your comments above, I decided to run quick measurements of the Sennheiser GAME ONE
> ...
> ...





Mad Lust Envy said:


> @jude, thank you so much for the graphs.
> 
> It's interesting how much the lower half of the spectrum changes depending on how high the volume on the headset itself is.


Those inline or headset built in volume adjustments use variable resistor in series with driver.
Hence they act exactly like output impedance.

And many Sennheiser have varying frequency dependant impedance with big impedance spike at driver's resonant frequency.
With output impedance that acts as voltage divider affecting to how big part of taken power actually drives headphone.

For example if we take HD598 with nominal ~60 ohm impedance, there's actually 280 ohm spike:
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=7&graphID[]=2851&scale=30
If output impedance is zero or small practically all power drives headphone.

Now for simplicity if we add 60 ohm serial resistor only half of power is driving headphone.
But at that resonant frequency situation changes to this:
280/(60+280) = ~0.82
And that's 64% increase to how much of drawn power is driving headphone.
As result bass gets boosted.


Also output impedance affects to (electric) damping factor.
Which is measure of how tightly driver is controlled by signal.
Decrease damping factor enough and that boosted bass starts to lose its power and eventually whole sound quality drops down to sewer.
Once tried such inline volume adjusting thing with HD595.


----------



## Helvetica bold

So Atmos Headphones will pass through USB on the Xbox One X or this is speculation? Through HDMI it wont pass through my AVR.


----------



## Luckbad

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SURPRISE!!! I'm here to give you guys a review of the Sennheiser GAME ONE open-backed gaming headset. Hope you guys enjoy it.



If you want more comfortable (and slightly larger interior space) earpads, I highly recommend grabbing HD598 black replacement pads. They fit perfectly and are considerably higher quality/comfort than the stock G4ME ONE pads (I have the older version--not sure if they changed anything on the GAME ONE. The GAME ZERO are different from the G4ME ZERO that I have though).

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/ear-pads-hd-598-sr

I use the G4ME ZERO at work. They're the most comfortable headphones I've ever owned, and I've owned many (MANY) dozens. The G4ME ONE are excellent for home use and quite comfortable as well. The latter are better for gaming because they're great with positional accuracy.

The G4ME ONE is right up there with the Sennheiser HD598 for FPS gaming. The 598 is perhaps slightly superior because of it emphasizes footstep frequencies well, but the One is more enjoyable to use overall and has a nice integrated microphone.


----------



## pietcux

Helvetica bold said:


> So Atmos Headphones will pass through USB on the Xbox One X or this is speculation? Through HDMI it wont pass through my AVR.


It is a speculation. I am a PC gamer. But isn't the Xbox running on Windows too?


----------



## cskippy

@Mad Lust Envy Can anyone CONFIRM that the Game One has ANGLED drivers like the PC37X?  I think they are the same but want to know if they differ here?  There is no mention of angled drivers or images of them for the Game One.


----------



## pietcux

cskippy said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Can anyone CONFIRM that the Game One has ANGLED drivers like the PC37X?  I think they are the same but want to know if they differ here?  There is no mention of angled drivers or images of them for the Game One.


It has angled drivers.


----------



## cskippy

Thanks!  I went ahead and ordered the P37X.  I'll have both for a few days and will compare measurements to see product consistency.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 17, 2017)

Straight from Senn themselves, they are the same in sound quality, comfort, build, only aesthetics and cable are different. It doesn't bring the short TRRS cable.


----------



## overhaze

Does anyone have any experience with the Steelseries Arctis 7? I live for the day there is a good wireless option for gaming.


----------



## CoontDunker

Can anyone tell me if the HD 599 is better for gaming than the 598? 

I've been researching for a few weeks and can't make up my mind. Rtings.com says the 599 are better in almost all aspects but homestudio.com says the sounstage isn't as large, wide, or impressive as the 598.

Excuse my ignorance but don't you rely on sounstage to immerse you in games to hear, for example, footsteps around the corner?

I actually like this review on the 598 but I was hoping to bump the fun up just a tad with the 599.

Great review Mad Lust Envy! It really helped in narrowing the options and coming up on black Friday I have about a week to decide.


----------



## abuch47

CoontDunker said:


> Can anyone tell me if the HD 599 is better for gaming than the 598?
> 
> I've been researching for a few weeks and can't make up my mind. Rtings.com says the 599 are better in almost all aspects but homestudio.com says the sounstage isn't as large, wide, or impressive as the 598.
> 
> ...


Soundstage is how big of an area the sounds come from, so good for distance. Imaging is the placement of certain audio tracks when mixed front/behind, above/below, left/right.

599 are the newer 598 but as with subjective listening people report slight differences.


----------



## Thatonekidgr (Nov 17, 2017)

I recently purchased the magni 3+modi 2 Uber in use with my HD598 for gaming on my Xbox One. I bought an RCA interconnecter to connect both devices and an optical cable to connect from the dac to the console and have an issue because neither the dac nor the amp have an aux in. I have a V-Moda Boom pro mic and the y splitters that connect to my old mix amp but is there any way of connecting any mic to my dac, amp or controller; do I have any viable options?


----------



## Yondaime

Hello everyone, I am using creative omni sound blaster external sound card combining with Kingston hyperx cloud 2. 

For more joy and quality which headset do you advice for gaming? I play mostly fps but listening some lossless musics are my second hobby 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





It must be closed type and should be below 250 euros.

Headsets I was considering to buy are Beyerdynamic Dt 990 pro and sennheiser hd 598 cs.

And there is a Beyerdynamic mmx 300 thing, but it's out of order for me right now.


----------



## r1sh

Hi guys! Have anyone compared game one to eyerdynamics dt 770?


----------



## jay2o

bludio victory sound really good via optical


----------



## overhaze

jay2o said:


> bludio victory sound really good via optical


Any good reviews on these? They seem like an amazing value but multi-driver headphones tend to suck.


----------



## Pairzilla

@Mad Lust Envy I am assuming you reviewed the AKG 712 pros when you first made this thread. However you just did a review on the game ones and said you wouldn't choose any headphone over these. Your review for both of these headphones pretty much praises both and being the best in their respective category. I was looking for a headphone for gaming. Playing mostly PUBG and I was considering the AKG's until I read your review on the game ones. So is there a clear winner right now for FPS gaming with AKG 712 PRO VS Sennheiser Game ones?


----------



## AxelCloris

Pairzilla said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I am assuming you reviewed the AKG 712 pros when you first made this thread. However you just did a review on the game ones and said you wouldn't choose any headphone over these. Your review for both of these headphones pretty much praises both and being the best in their respective category. I was looking for a headphone for gaming. Playing mostly PUBG and I was considering the AKG's until I read your review on the game ones. So is there a clear winner right now for FPS gaming with AKG 712 PRO VS Sennheiser Game ones?


He stated there was no headset he'd take over the Game One. He then went on to name headsets that he wouldn't take over the Game One. I don't intend to speak for MLE, but headsets and headphones have been two different product categories throughout his guide.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 17, 2017)

Thanks Axel. A clear indication was made. Headsets and headphones are two different categories on my guide.

I'd take the K712 Pro over the Game One any day of the week unless I needed a microphone. I like having a gaming only headset along with a pair that Is use without a mic. Makes things easier then constantly connecting a mic.

In fact, in the K712 Pro price range, they'd likely be my first choice for a headphone if gaming came first.


----------



## Pairzilla

Cool thanks. I have a mod mic so needing a mic is not an issue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Then yes, K712 Pro is a winner.


----------



## jay2o

overhaze said:


> Any good reviews on these? They seem like an amazing value but multi-driver headphones tend to suck.


Loads on you tube


----------



## raif89

EsaT said:


> Haven't had chance for longer testing, but 7xx AKGs definitely have very light feel which is never bad thing for comfort.
> Also without bumps in headband there isn't that reservation.
> K712's frequency response is rather similar to Fidelio and Beyerdynamic DT990 (I'm using) so it should give very good balance between having above neutral strength in bass without it starting to drown everything else.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, in my country there are no replacement pads for any high end cans at all. I'd have to order them from Amazon regardless of what I pick up. To be honest, I just want fun sounding cans. Competitive is rather a secondary, if not tertiary, thing for me. Importance for me is immersion and fun, then competitiveness. 



ls13coco said:


> Two of my headphones were purchased after lots of research, including this thread - for gaming. I'd go with the Fidelio X2 , or AKG 712 pro. AKG only if you have an amp, though. The Audio-Technica ADX line seems to be a very good option as well, which I almost pulled the trigger on.
> All of said headphones have a large soundstage and great imaging, from experience the x2 is "funner" sounding but the 712 has more accurate imaging slightly.



With this info, sounds like the X2 is the go to, unless anyone else has any further advice. The Asus Xonar STX is what I'm using to drive, so if that's an issue for the 712's then I can't really get them.

In the future I'd love to get my hands on an external DAC and amp, just not in the cards atm.


----------



## themrmikemcd

raif89 said:


> Unfortunately, in my country there are no replacement pads for any high end cans at all. I'd have to order them from Amazon regardless of what I pick up. To be honest, I just want fun sounding cans. Competitive is rather a secondary, if not tertiary, thing for me. Importance for me is immersion and fun, then competitiveness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about how the X2s sound if that helps at all. It would be the ones I would have if I would have had more experience before I already spent so much on other headphones. I still plan to get a pair one day even if I have to buy used.


----------



## grantman102002

Is it worth it to add the Sennheiser PC37X massdrop headset to the list, or is it just a repackage of one of their other headsets? I have had mine for a few months now and love them! Plus at the price of $120 they are a steal...


----------



## Yethal

grantman102002 said:


> Is it worth it to add the Sennheiser PC37X massdrop headset to the list, or is it just a repackage of one of their other headsets? I have had mine for a few months now and love them! Plus at the price of $120 they are a steal...


Mad mentioned it a few posts back that they are identical to game one performance-wise so there's no point creating a separate entry for them. They are most definitely a steal though.


----------



## grantman102002

Yethal said:


> Mad mentioned it a few posts back that they are identical to game one performance-wise so there's no point creating a separate entry for them. They are most definitely a steal though.


Ahh I see, I guess I kinda figured that. I honestly may pick up a backup set, I don't know how long Massdrop will be doing this deal...


----------



## daskyll (Nov 18, 2017)

Currently, I use the mixamp pro 2013 + akg 701 with amp on *PS4*. But i don't like the background noise.
There is some dac/amp  that does not have that problem? but mix the sound of the game and chat like the mixamp.
Thanks.


----------



## Yethal

daskyll said:


> Currently, I use the mixamp pro 2013 + akg 701 with amp on *PS4*. But i don't like the background noise.
> There is some dac/amp  that does not have that problem? but mix the sound of the game and chat like the mixamp.
> Thanks.


Creative X7 does that but it's a bit more expensive than the Mixamp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2017)

daskyll said:


> Currently, I use the mixamp pro 2013 + akg 701 with amp on *PS4*. But i don't like the background noise.
> There is some dac/amp  that does not have that problem? but mix the sound of the game and chat like the mixamp.
> Thanks.



Creative X7 has it all, though you'll need something else to hook chat to. Pretty sure there's some drawings on the first page on how to do so with the X7.

I use an X7 myself, though when I chat I go straight off the PS4 controller because if I'm chatting, I pay almost no attention to game audio anyways, so I don't need surround tech. If I'm being competitive, I don't chat. I like to focus purely on the sound.


----------



## illram (Nov 19, 2017)

HE-5's are back and on sale for $599 bundled with a whatever-HiFiMan amp. Curious what folks think of these. I already own the HE-560, which I absolutely loved. Seems to be a lot of nostalgia about these headphones but I don't know how much of the gushing is just nice memories or genuine. Someone mentioned it being the "progenitor" of the HE-6 (>$1k headphone), whatever that was supposed to mean. No gaming reviews per se but lots of reviews mention a large soundstage and good clarity/detail and separation. As a certified headphone buying addict I am curious...

2nd question: if you own an HD598 with a mic cable it is completely and utterly silly to consider the PC37X right? Please say yes.


----------



## Jovialgent

Ive read alot from this topic but cant decide yet Ive bought an hyper x cloud 2 but i dont like the performance of it for fps gaming , I would love to replace it, but I don’t know for which headphone/mic or new headset. My main is competetive gaming so directionl sound and footsteps are the main purpose. Can spend around 200 euro.s. Anyone can recommend me something? Ive had the pc350 before and I loved it but want better directional sound for csgo and pubg


----------



## Yondaime

Jovialgent said:


> Ive read alot from this topic but cant decide yet Ive bought an hyper x cloud 2 but i dont like the performance of it for fps gaming , I would love to replace it, but I don’t know for which headphone/mic or new headset. My main is competetive gaming so directionl sound and footsteps are the main purpose. Can spend around 200 euro.s. Anyone can recommend me something? Ive had the pc350 before and I loved it but want better directional sound for csgo and pubg



I have same question. Cloud 2's self sound card and 7.1 are useless. So I am using cloud 2 combining with creative omni sound blaster. I have an obsession about directional sound and I want better.

There are some gaming headsets and headphones. I was considering to buy Beyerdynamic mmx 300 yet it is too expensive. What is your advice to combine with omni sound blaster at fps use?


----------



## Jovialgent

Yondaime said:


> I have same question. Cloud 2's self sound card and 7.1 are useless. So I am using cloud 2 combining with creative omni sound blaster. I have an obsession about directional sound and I want better.
> 
> There are some gaming headsets and headphones. I was considering to buy Beyerdynamic mmx 300 yet it is too expensive. What is your advice to combine with omni sound blaster at fps use?


Ive read good reviews about the sennheiser game one but i’m waiting for advice here


----------



## r1sh (Nov 19, 2017)

Hi there!

Can anyone give advice with choosing headphones for 1st person shooters like Rainbow 6 Siege, Battlefield, CS:go and so on.

I'm going tu buy soundcard Creative AE-5 and I have about $200-250 for headphones\headset new or used and choosing between headphones. I've read FAQ on the first page and according to it headphones that I liked have scores:

AKG k701 \ k702 \ q701 - 10
K612 Pro - 9
Sennheiser HD598 - 9.25
dt 990 - 8
Philips Fidelio X2 - 8
Game One - no score

And headsets:

Steelseries Siberia 840
HyperX Revolver S
HyperX Cloud II
Razer Kraken V2 7.1
Razer Man'O'War 7.1

Comparing Sennheiser Game One to q701 which one is better?

Which one will be the best for positioning, detailing and soundstage?


----------



## AlivePT

Hello,

I need some advice on a headphone setup, i currently have a BW p7 for music paired with sound blaster X7 and for gaming a sennheiser game zero with again SBX7.
I like the sound signature of the sennheiser brand, but i already own a momentum for music and game zero for gaming so on that front im covered.

I'm curious about planar magnetic headphones (hifiman he400s and monolith m1060 and audeze el8 open back) in terms of sound quality and if they are any good for gaming, i never tried one and where i live we don't have any stores to try them out.

In this thread i saw recommendations about the AKG 712pro, bayerdynamic dt990, philips fidelio x2 and sennheiser hd650 in terms of gaming.
I don't now if the HD650 is different in terms of sound signature and if justifies the purchase, and also recently my game zero´s ripped on the inside of the ear coups the material is not as strong as the outside of the ear coups, i like way more the quality of ear pads on the BW P7, but i'm trying to find a replacement ear pads for the game zero.

So i was considering this headphones for gaming but also for music and if paired with the SBX7 they gain any advantage in terms of sound, for example my sennheiser game zeros the day i bought them, just the headphones alone the sound was good but very neutral, so i decide to buy the SBX7 to improve the sound quality and the volume on the headphones and the difference was night and day.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Nov 19, 2017)

AlivePT said:


> Hello,
> 
> I need some advice on a headphone setup, i currently have a BW p7 for music paired with sound blaster X7 and for gaming a sennheiser game zero with again SBX7.
> I like the sound signature of the sennheiser brand, but i already own a momentum for music and game zero for gaming so on that front im covered.
> ...



Purely my opinion of course but I'd sell the P7 and Momentum and keep the Game Zero and your SBX7.
Forget the planars you listed and the other headphones as well, except the HD650 (or HD600, HD660S, HD6XX Massdrop). All the HD6.. phones are among the best headphones around for music at any price point (there are very expensive headphones that aren't nearly as good). They perform very well for gaming as well but I'd still keep the Game Zero.
Surely keep your SBX7 since it's a very nice gaming amp, you'd need to spend a lot more to get better. It isn't bad for music as well but if you want a better music setup then look at the small Schiit amps and dacs or combo. (Modi + Magni or Jotunheim with built in Dac or Asgard + Bifrost if you want to spend some more.)

Edit: you can find new cushions for your Game Zero straught from the Senn website: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/hzp-41


----------



## EsaT

r1sh said:


> Can anyone give advice with choosing headphones for 1st person shooters like Rainbow 6 Siege, Battlefield, CS:go and so on.
> 
> I'm going tu buy soundcard Creative AE-5 and I have about $200-250 for headphones\headset new or used and choosing between headphones. I've read FAQ on the first page and according to it headphones that I liked have scores:
> 
> ...


For absolutely best possible distinguishing of footsteps and such neutral/weak bass is must.
(so that your ears have no distractions)
Meaning AKG K701/702 are pretty spot on.

Q701 was apparently discontinued and has about disappeared from sale at least in Europe.
Also not sure if Q701 was ever updated to smooth headband instead of bumpy one, unlike K701/702.
So for comfort difference might be notable.
You no doubt want good enough comfort to wear them for whole day.

Having used Sennheiser HD595 (before DT990) wouldn't consider this millennium's HD59x design with those AKGs around.
Sure those Sennheisers have really nicely balanced neutral sound and good comfort.
But that sleek looks includes mechanically rather horrible earcup attaching to head band.
That design counts on having good molding tolerances and plastic mix to prevent stresses caused by design from starting cracks.
(then getting absolutely zero support for 200€ product...)


But that very neutral/weak bass also cripples "fun factor" with explosions and such simply lacking feel/immersion.
So after those weak bass cans there's another "balanced sound" headphone group with good strength in bass and notch lower competitiveness.

AKG K712 Pro you missed might be best for that balancing between good fun factor and competitiveness.
(considering ~230€ price here in not the cheapest country Finland might find good price also in US)
Should be able to do direct comparison between it and DT990 in next weekend or so depending on when shop I have order in gets Beyer's earpads.

So your choise is really between best competitiveness and lack of fun factor or balancing between them.
Though trying to boost weak bass for taste has its risks, while there's no risk of signal clipping in giving some minus dBs to bass in equalizer.

Dolby Headphone has tendency to bloat bass, so for that would definitely want neutral bass cans.
But Creative's binaural-simulation keeps bass neutral (or kills it in case of old CMSS-3D) so they work with some strength above nautral bass.
(and boom boom goes the bass bucket in head soundstage closed junks suck always)




And why are you even considering made in China for cheapest possible price for maximum profits gaming brand junks?
Reason why everyone and their pet dog wants share of gaming product market is that they can take cheap junk, give it flashy colours/look and fancy name and sell it with super high profit margins.
Roller coaster's loop wouldn't look out of place in many of these frequency response curves:
https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/60...gher-quality-testresults---frequency-response


----------



## EsaT

AlivePT said:


> I'm curious about planar magnetic headphones (hifiman he400s and monolith m1060 and audeze el8 open back) in terms of sound quality and if they are any good for gaming, i never tried one and where i live we don't have any stores to try them out.
> 
> In this thread i saw recommendations about the AKG 712pro, bayerdynamic dt990, philips fidelio x2 and sennheiser hd650 in terms of gaming.
> I don't now if the HD650 is different in terms of sound signature and if justifies the purchase, and also recently my game zero´s ripped on the inside of the ear coups the material is not as strong as the outside of the ear coups, i like way more the quality of ear pads on the BW P7, but i'm trying to find a replacement ear pads for the game zero.
> ...


First post of this thread covers quite a lots of cans including HD650.
For gaming I wouldn't want to compromise in soundstage.
Sure music can truly benefit from having smaller/more "intimate" soundstage...
But in gaming nothing beats having feel for if gun shots come from nearby, mid range or really far away.
(check BF4 video of previous post)

Or how about some "healthy paranoia":


----------



## r1sh (Nov 20, 2017)

EsaT said:


> And why are you even considering made in China for cheapest possible price for maximum profits gaming brand junks?
> Reason why everyone and their pet dog wants share of gaming product market is that they can take cheap junk, give it flashy colours/look and fancy name and sell it with super high profit margins.
> Roller coaster's loop wouldn't look out of place in many of these frequency response curves:
> https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/60...gher-quality-testresults---frequency-response



wow that graphs look...strange for headphones))

I looked at gaming headsets because it's the first idea that came to my brains. I want gamin => i need gaming headset 

A thought that if there are so many reviews over the Internet of gaming headset, if many gamers use them, then there is some rational motive for this...And if good stereo headphones cost, for example, $200 and gaming headset costs $300 then it should be all the same from stereoheadphones for $200 + additional extras for gamin' ))

And besides, in the FAQ Sennheiser Game One is called almost the best headset for gaming....



EsaT said:


> For absolutely best possible distinguishing of footsteps and such neutral/weak bass is must.
> (so that your ears have no distractions)
> Meaning AKG K701/702 are pretty spot on.
> 
> ...



thanks for simple and clear explanation!

I've just looked for advertisements of the sale of k712 in my country, but it costs $330-360 USED!!!! Damn 

k701 costs ~$120  ,  k702 costs  ~$170 and  dt 990 costs from $130 to $170.

Actually I don't know about bass, balance and other moments. I had ath-a700x (close backed) for gaming.but I'm not satisfied with sound. I took from a friend ath-ad700 (open backed)  and they sound more clear, but , as you say "fun factor" isn't too great. I hear explosive, I hear shooting, but my heart doesn't start beating faster of this sound))

How are 990's or k701 comparing to ad700's sound?

And I'm going to buy soundcard for all this stuff and choosing between Creative AE-5 and Creative ZXR. AE-5 uses dac Sabre, which is more detailed, but less "fun" sound and ZXR has DAC Burr Brown, which is one of the lovest dacs, it has warmer sound, but less detailed. And also I've read about driver problems for ZXR running under Windows 10 (it doesn't save EQ settings) and AE-5 has Scout 2.0 instead of 1.0 in ZXR. And this is another difficult question, without answer for me


----------



## grantman102002

r1sh said:


> Hi there!
> 
> Can anyone give advice with choosing headphones for 1st person shooters like Rainbow 6 Siege, Battlefield, CS:go and so on.
> 
> ...



I loved my HD558 setup with a modmic, but since I game on console sometimes I got annoyed with running two cables so I picked up the Sennheiser PC37X headset from Massdrop. The PC37X is a little bit less comfortable than the HD558s but both have a good imaging and sound. Good enough for me, while I am gaming, at least.


----------



## DCB305 (Nov 20, 2017)

Massdrop has a Minimic (their version of a modmic) for $24.99. I just bought one for my X2's...here's a link https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-mini-mic?mode=guest_open

[mod edit: corrected link]


----------



## DCB305

Anyone know if the Soundblaster X7 has enough power for the AKG K702 Annie/ K712's? Thanks!


----------



## illram

DCB305 said:


> Anyone know if the Soundblaster X7 has enough power for the AKG K702 Annie/ K712's? Thanks!


Yes, plenty.


----------



## Yondaime

illram said:


> Yes, plenty.



How about creative's omni sound blaster? Does it have enough power for these headsets and headphones like dt 990 pro, mmx 300 and k712? 

And which version of scout software it's using?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Jovialgent said:


> Ive read alot from this topic but cant decide yet Ive bought an hyper x cloud 2 but i dont like the performance of it for fps gaming , I would love to replace it, but I don’t know for which headphone/mic or new headset. My main is competetive gaming so directionl sound and footsteps are the main purpose. Can spend around 200 euro.s. Anyone can recommend me something? Ive had the pc350 before and I loved it but want better directional sound for csgo and pubg



Replace the HyperX Cloud II USB adapter with a Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card (buy used), should improve the HyperX Cloud, at least a little.
Buy the Sennheiser HD558 headphones, remove the black rubber tape from insides the cups of the HD558, should roughly be the same as the PC350.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. Only look at the X7 if you need a true amp from Creative.


----------



## Yondaime

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No. Only look at the X7 if you need a true amp from Creative.



But it's some pricey 

I have no intention to use 300 euro costed amp, I am in a need for better positioning sound which I am not complaining about it too. Yet I would be glad to use something cheaper with or without omni sound blaster and cloud 2 combo  my budget is about 100 euro for amp 200 for headset max. But I intend to change only one of them.


----------



## Forty0z

you already have a good closed headphone. 
spend your $300 budget on a amp or dac amp combo then save for a better headphone.


----------



## illram (Nov 21, 2017)

Yondaime said:


> How about creative's omni sound blaster? Does it have enough power for these headsets and headphones like dt 990 pro, mmx 300 and k712?
> 
> And which version of scout software it's using?


I don't know anything about the Omni.


----------



## AlivePT

EsaT said:


> First post of this thread covers quite a lots of cans including HD650.
> For gaming I wouldn't want to compromise in soundstage.
> Sure music can truly benefit from having smaller/more "intimate" soundstage...
> But in gaming nothing beats having feel for if gun shots come from nearby, mid range or really far away.
> ...




Well, on the first post of this thread the headphones that caught my attention in terms of comfort, fun and competitiveness I like the akg 712pro and HD650.

The AKG712pro  being an all arounder i dont know if they are better than the game zero just in terms of gaming.

Because if they don't have any advantage I maybe consider to buy de asgard2+bifrost with sennheiser HD 660S


----------



## EsaT (Nov 21, 2017)

Yondaime said:


> How about creative's omni sound blaster? Does it have enough power for these headsets and headphones like dt 990 pro, mmx 300 and k712?
> 
> And which version of scout software it's using?


If you mean Omni Surround 5.1 it's really all around budget device. (though likely beating Sennheiser GSX)

While not good for many mobile devices DT990 isn't either very demanding so Omni 5.1 would be enough, unless you want "your hearing to retire prematurely".

MMX300 has low 32 ohm impedance so for that Omni 5.1 would more than enough.
But it's closed can based onto DT770 with its strong bass closed design drawbacks... (read starting post of thread)
And as big soundstage open cans both DT990 and K712 would "curbstomp" it in competitiveness, while having enough bass for good fun.
(definitely seeing no need for more bass for fun, because it would compromise all other game sounds)
Of course if you have noisy environment then closed headphones have major advantage over open cans in noise isolation.

Despite of its lowish impedance AKG K712 again is toward more demanding end of headphones.
It needs same voltage per dB as 250 ohm DT990 while drawing quadruple current and power.
For that would definitely look for more higher level sound card than Omni 5.1
Creative has long lacked external sound cards above budget level, but there's now also some cheaper than X7.


"Scout mode" is just some equalizer which can't be used with SBX Pro Surround.
Which is the thing needed for binaural simulation when setting headphones as output.
(and Windows playback settings need to be in 5.1)


----------



## EsaT

AlivePT said:


> Because if they don't have any advantage I maybe consider to buy de asgard2+bifrost with sennheiser HD 660S


Remember that DACs don't give binaural-simulation and without sound card you need some other way for doing it.
2.0/stereo with headphones just creates very bad artificial "inside left ear-in center of head-inside right rear" immersion in games.
Good headphones simply make that artificial sound very evident.


----------



## AxelCloris

EsaT said:


> If you mean Omni Surround 5.1 it's really all around budget device. (though likely beating Sennheiser GSX)


I'll have to get ahold of an Omni Surround to do a quick head-to-head test. I've been playing with the GSX lately and its Binaural Rendering Engine is pretty awesome. It's surpassed Dolby Headphone for my uses.


----------



## AlivePT

EsaT said:


> Remember that DACs don't give binaural-simulation and without sound card you need some other way for doing it.
> 2.0/stereo with headphones just creates very bad artificial "inside left ear-in center of head-inside right rear" immersion in games.
> Good headphones simply make that artificial sound very evident.



The akg 712 pro i was gonna pair with the x7 if there is some improvement in the change.

The dac+headphone amp + HD660S or BWp7 for music.


----------



## EsaT (Nov 21, 2017)

r1sh said:


> wow that graphs look...strange for headphones))
> 
> I looked at gaming headsets because it's the first idea that came to my brains. I want gamin => i need gaming headset
> 
> ...


Every single new headphone from traditional audio makers has to stand up to existing established headphones to get any good ratings.
While most gaming stuff sites never do actual comparisons, or at most to other overpriced bling blinged Chinese junk.
I think this pretty much sums what most gaming headphones would be compared to actual headphones:
_Oh man my Beyerdynamic 990 pro just arrived
My previous Asus Vulcan can go to hell.
I was curious if the difference would be minimal but man it is huge.
The bass and everything on the Asus Vulcan felt like medieval headphone after using the Beyerdynamic_
http://www.overclock.net/t/1337761/...aster-z-zx-zxr-series-club/1330#post_21168377
First post of this thread actually includes couple expensive Astro's gaming headsets for not so stellar "bang per buck".


K712 has been available for 230€ for half year here in Finland and over year in Europe so don't know why it would be that much more expensive in elsewhere or at least in US.
I mean can't be some slow supply chain problem...
Unless some shipping company has started using slave galleys which have problems in Northern Atlantic weather.
And shipping from Europe to US would be lot less than price difference.


Both those Audio-Technicas are extremely neutral bass cans, or really non-existent bass in case of AD700.
K701/702 (detachable cable in later) don't have much more feel of bass, while DT990 has rare amount of it for open can.
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...D[2]=703&graphID[3]=2141&scale=30&graphType=0
K712 has pretty much same amount of bass as DT990.
It's likely open design and big soundstage which keeps bass from compromising other sounds much. (unlike in closed cans)


"Scout mode" is just some fancy equalizer and disables SBX Pro Surround at least in Z-serie, so you don't want to use it with headphones.
Unless you enjoy having those sounds in your ears and inside your head. (just quick tested with movie)
New AE-5 has better headphone output than serial resistor needing TPA6120 of ZxR, but again software looks more bloated.
Though haven't checked if there's been new thorough reviews in last months.

Anyway with it's constantly improving new user tortures Windows 10 has caused problems also for Asus cards so can't expect any sound card to be safe from automatic "updates" suddenly breaking something.
(should be called as Wintoys because it's as much game as OS)


----------



## EsaT

AxelCloris said:


> I'll have to get ahold of an Omni Surround to do a quick head-to-head test. I've been playing with the GSX lately and its Binaural Rendering Engine is pretty awesome. It's surpassed Dolby Headphone for my uses.


Sennheiser GSX indeed avoids Dolby Headphone's biggest weakness:
Tendency for echo which is already done by sound renderers of games and bass bloat.
Just why should binaural-simulation emulate also acoustics of some gothic cathedral/public bath...
When I first time heard Dolby Headphone it was major disappointment compared to all Dolby name hype.

Here's one comparison of SBX Pro Surround and Sennheiser GSX.
(remember to put everything to stereo/2.0 and no any effects/processings)


----------



## ruiliao

Hey guys, I currently have the k702, the Sennheiser's HD569 for when I need to be a bit quieter (girlfriend sleeps early) paired with Fiio E10K. I've ordered a Creative x7 and I'm thinking of getting HD800. I'm looking for advice here, is it worth it and will it be enough with the x7? kind regards


----------



## r1sh (Nov 22, 2017)

EsaT said:


> Every single new headphone from traditional audio makers has to stand up to existing established headphones to get any good ratings.
> While most gaming stuff sites never do actual comparisons, or at most to other overpriced bling blinged Chinese junk.
> I think this pretty much sums what most gaming headphones would be compared to actual headphones:



Yes you're right, I haven't find any comparison, any frequency response graphs and that's why I get stucked and looked at stereophones....But honestly, all this gaming stuff is made so beautifull and when I'm looking at it I really want to by it just because it looks unusuall and cool)



EsaT said:


> K712 has been available for 230€ for half year here in Finland and over year in Europe so don't know why it would be that much more expensive in elsewhere or at least in US.
> I mean can't be some slow supply chain problem...
> Unless some shipping company has started using slave galleys which have problems in Northern Atlantic weather.
> And shipping from Europe to US would be lot less than price difference.



Great site, thanks, I looked for k712 on ebay and really there is one new for $270 left.

I live in Russia, our prices often are unreal for example, newbalance sneakers costs here $250+ while I bought in Germany with DHL delivery for $150 



EsaT said:


> Both those Audio-Technicas are extremely neutral bass cans, or really non-existent bass in case of AD700.
> K701/702 (detachable cable in later) don't have much more feel of bass, while DT990 has rare amount of it for open can.
> http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...D[2]=703&graphID[3]=2141&scale=30&graphType=0
> K712 has pretty much same amount of bass as DT990.
> It's likely open design and big soundstage which keeps bass from compromising other sounds much. (unlike in closed cans)



It's strange but I'm satisfied with bass on ad700, I don't like when bass booms in my ears and my head goes round of it I liked bass in Sony mdr-1a it was lite and nice) As I see in Creative's drivers for AE-5 there is separate regulator for bass so I can a little bit boost it

The reason why I asked about DT 990 is that it costs $130 used, k612 pro costs $120 used and both k702 and ad900x cost $160 used.....With this prices do k712 really worth spending extra $70-100 ?



EsaT said:


> "Scout mode" is just some fancy equalizer and disables SBX Pro Surround at least in Z-serie, so you don't want to use it with headphones.
> Unless you enjoy having those sounds in your ears and inside your head. (just quick tested with movie)
> New AE-5 has better headphone output than serial resistor needing TPA6120 of ZxR, but again software looks more bloated.
> Though haven't checked if there's been new thorough reviews in last months.



Oh...Okay I understood that Scout mode is useless stuff

Thank you for your advices, I've bought today AE-5 and ready for burning new headphones that I'll buy


----------



## themrmikemcd (Nov 22, 2017)

I just wanted to take this time to thank Mad Lust Envy( Though my wife hates you because of all the money I've spent from your recommendations J/K) and so many others for always being so nice and helpful. I've learned so much just from browsing most of the threads in this discussion and I just wanted to thank all those who have ever given advice or was patient and understanding to those who like me were and are still new to the audiophile world. I wanted to say how much I appreciate everyone being so awesome here! Thank you all for everything you do!


----------



## Fegefeuer

no girl is more dangerous to your man than MLE

That's an awesome reputation


----------



## EsaT

r1sh said:


> But honestly, all this gaming stuff is made so beautifull and when I'm looking at it I really want to by it just because it looks unusuall and cool)
> 
> 
> Great site, thanks, I looked for k712 on ebay and really there is one new for $270 left.
> ...


HD595 taught me the expensive way to look for other things in design than fashionable look:
Last millennium design HD590 with "old boring" matt black plastic and standard two sided ear cup attaching survived decade without really any signs of use.
Shiny fashion plastics of HD595 started cracking in 2½ years precisely this way:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack.534963/page-3#post-7328331
Easy to see from those pics that design creates and focuses stresses to that part.
While not so fashionable looking Beyer's design actually has big advantage if ever needing microphone for online gaming:
https://imgur.com/gallery/bKU4H


Ear's relative sensitivity to bass (and treble) increases with rising sound pressure.
So at higher volume weak bass headphones like AD700 might feel like having some bass.
It would be very easy to unknowingly increase volume according to perceived bass.

Anyway this site has graphs also for MDR-1, but not for DT990, though it would have very similar bass to K712:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHAD700.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AKGK712.pdf
MDR-1 has for closed can rather neutral bass, but closed design likely gives it more feel/"punch" than in open headphone.

Really weird to have that much higher price extra in one model unless all prices are elevated
DT990 Pro meant for studio use with coiled cable and some more head band clamping force is actually really cheap for quality even as new. (~130€)
Normal DT990 "Edition/Premium" with straight 3m long cable costs ~200€
K701/702 are in between. (702 more with detachable cable)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> no girl is more dangerous to your man than MLE
> 
> That's an awesome reputation



My avatar seems fitting in this case.


----------



## r1sh

EsaT said:


> HD595 taught me the expensive way to look for other things in design than fashionable look:
> Last millennium design HD590 with "old boring" matt black plastic and standard two sided ear cup attaching survived decade without really any signs of use.
> Shiny fashion plastics of HD595 started cracking in 2½ years precisely this way:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack.534963/page-3#post-7328331



Wow look horrible... I guess i should say "no" to Sennheiser with my gaming



EsaT said:


> Ear's relative sensitivity to bass (and treble) increases with rising sound pressure.
> So at higher volume weak bass headphones like AD700 might feel like having some bass.
> It would be very easy to unknowingly increase volume according to perceived bass.
> 
> ...



Which of theese headphones have better sound quality, soundstage and positioning then ad700s?




EsaT said:


> Really weird to have that much higher price extra in one model unless all prices are elevated
> DT990 Pro meant for studio use with coiled cable and some more head band clamping force is actually really cheap for quality even as new. (~130€)
> Normal DT990 "Edition/Premium" with straight 3m long cable costs ~200€
> K701/702 are in between. (702 more with detachable cable)



Yes it's weird, I don't understand those guys))) Crazy russians))) I found one internet-store in my city, not audio, that  has k712 new for $280 that's not bad)

As I understand we don't have DT990 Premium, only Pros....

According to price, for example, I have ad700, I need headphones with better quality (soundstage, positioning etc). Will it be q701 \ dt990 \ dt880 \ k612 pro? How much better soundstage will k712 pro have against q701\dt990\dt880\k612?


----------



## EsaT

r1sh said:


> Which of theese headphones have better sound quality, soundstage and positioning then ad700s?
> 
> According to price, for example, I have ad700, I need headphones with better quality (soundstage, positioning etc). Will it be q701 \ dt990 \ dt880 \ k612 pro? How much better soundstage will k712 pro have against q701\dt990\dt880\k612?


From purely competitive point there shouldn't be anything better than AD700, with its total lack of "distractions" from details.
While Sennheiser HD595 has clearly more (especially lower) bass than AD700 even that is still neutral and lacking in "fun factor", so would expect this MLE's line to describe AD700 perfectly:
_They are really bass light. That is their biggest issue. Bass is so light, it sounds like a tin can attempting to sound like a subwoofer. Just no bass
_
So question would really about improving that fun factor/immersion and getting better balance between it and competitiveness.
K712 sure sounds good for that.

_*Soundstage: *Rating: Excellent
...The K712's soundstage is spacious, and excels particularly in width. The soundstage is dimensional, holographic, and layered. The K612 Pro didn't have the same dimensionality and layering in direct comparison, despite it's large size.
*Positioning: *Rating: Excellent
A large soundstage, generally linear balance, and great detail is a recipe for success. The K712 excels in positional cues, much like the standard 7xx line, but with more body, and fullness. One can argue that it won't be as masterful for competitive gaming focus due to the standard 7xx model's tilt towards analyzing and detail-retrieval, but the K712 doesn't give up much in the way of those things, and adds in extra immersion._

Just looks like can't do side by side comparison between it and DT990 until next week.
Incidentally also found used K702 for 100€ so might try to get those for neutral bass reference point considering "tape holding pieces" HD595s feel like they could "disintegrate" further if actually using them.


----------



## r1sh

EsaT said:


> So question would really about improving that fun factor/immersion and getting better balance between it and competitiveness.
> K712 sure sounds good for that.



well I actuall don't know if I'm ready to spend $250 for headphones that are equal to mine)))

Also I've talked to guys who sell used k712 in my country for $330, they say that their headphones are made in Slovenia and new ones for $260 are made in China. That's the main reason of highprice.



EsaT said:


> Just looks like can't do side by side comparison between it and DT990 until next week.
> Incidentally also found used K702 for 100€ so might try to get those for neutral bass reference point considering "tape holding pieces" HD595s feel like they could "disintegrate" further if actually using them.



I'm eagerly waitting for your comparison


----------



## dragonuck (Nov 23, 2017)

So I have finally chosen the Surplux HD681B for Xbox one FpS gaming such as Call of duty etc.   
What I want now is to get the best audio using my Xbox One with these headsets.  I have looked at DAC, AMPs etc, which will be best.. I the best for hearing those footsteps and bullet directions etc...


----------



## Helvetica bold

I just bought the Xbox One X and I like  Dolby Atmos headphones, Tomb Raider sounds great. I’m using AD700x. What DAC would be good for better sound quality than the audio out of the controller.
Sorry if this has been asked before.


----------



## Yethal

Helvetica bold said:


> I just bought the Xbox One X and I like  Dolby Atmos headphones, Tomb Raider sounds great. I’m using AD700x. What DAC would be good for better sound quality than the audio out of the controller.
> Sorry if this has been asked before.


Literally every DAC


----------



## pervysage

What is your guy's opinion on in-ear's vs. headphones for gaming?

I feel like an in-ear with a decent soundstage could be a more immersive experience? Never have really tried gaming with in-ears though.


----------



## cskippy

IEMs can be very good for gaming as the isolation is top notch.  I tried the InEar Prophile 8 and it was pretty good.  A little congested but not bad.  I'll have Andromeda to try in a few days.


----------



## illram

pervysage said:


> What is your guy's opinion on in-ear's vs. headphones for gaming?
> 
> I feel like an in-ear with a decent soundstage could be a more immersive experience? Never have really tried gaming with in-ears though.



I tried my Pinnacle Px (Massdrop P1's) and they sounded great other than for surround purposes. They have a great soundstage and decent imaging but the positioning did not translate. In a week or so when my Andromedas arrive I plan on trying them out also. I have an HD800S to compare them to. 

As far as virtual surround goes, my hunch is these generic VSS algorithms that we use for surround are not tuned to having the sound directly in your ear canal.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> Literally every DAC



I had a Creative G5 for PS4 use but this doesn't support Xbox Voice Chat - is there any DAC/AMP (other than Mixamp) that offers simple Xbox compatibility for chat also? I'm using the setup in the lounge so a mass of adapters/cables is not ideal?


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> I had a Creative G5 for PS4 use but this doesn't support Xbox Voice Chat - is there any DAC/AMP (other than Mixamp) that offers simple Xbox compatibility for chat also? I'm using the setup in the lounge so a mass of adapters/cables is not ideal?


No. Blame Microsoft fir that. They require usb audio devices to have a $35 authentication chip built in.


----------



## mbyrnes

Dolby Atmos is 20% off right now. It's $12 instead of $15. Bought my license on sale!


----------



## Helvetica bold

Yethal said:


> Literally every DAC


Im looking for something w/ an optical, or HDMI in. I though there might be a DAC/AMP that might go better with Atmos than others.


----------



## dragonuck

As mention, just a HDMI DAC AMP, no need for chat as I will be purchasing a mic later on separate.  Any recommendations


----------



## MrP627 (Nov 24, 2017)

Hi everyone!

First off much appreciation to MLE and everyone who contributes here, I have learned much, but at the same time I am having a harder time picking which headphones to buy LoL.

I have a dedicated AT2020 usbi mic so I really just want to get headphones that I can use for gaming, general music and the occasional movie. Oh and it would be a plus if I could use them on my phone. My sound preference is slightly on the warm side. I have settled on the K7xx from massdrop, let me know if this is a good choice though or should I reconsider with the HDxx, DT770s, etc??

Finally, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good wireless headset for the same reasons above but usage with a mobile phone is a must. I just want an un-tethered alternative since I also have a PC hooked up to my LG OLED and I want to maximize that experience late at night without waking my kids. I realize the soundstage will take a hit among other things but I just want to find the best choice for wireless. So far I am liking the Sony MDR 1000xm2s. Any thoughts? Should I also consider the B&W PX, V moda crossfade wireless 2 (they say they have no lag) or something else entirely? What would your top choices be for a wireless alternative???

TIA and again much appreciation to everyone, I am a bit new to the headphone audiophile scene so bear with me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2017)

I got a surprise by mail yesterday. Something a little different, and probably very new to most of you.







https://usa.1more.com/products/spearheadvr

If you wanna know more.

Please look forward to the review, which will be posted at Headphone.guru in the same manner as some of my recent reviews (recent= the last ones a few years ago, lol), though I will of course add the headset to this guide, as well as add the gaming impressions directly to the guide.

I don't know anything about these but I told @Frank I  I'm intrigued by them, so I'd do the review for him. I figure it'd keep my reviewing juices flowing, so to speak. Perhaps after these I'll review something more in line with what you guys normally expect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MrP627 said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> First off much appreciation to MLE and everyone who contributes here, I have learned much, but at the same time I am having a harder time picking which headphones to buy LoL.
> 
> ...



For the first question, I'd say you did perfect with the K7XX. Nothing more I could recommend over those for your needs. Not sure they're the BEST thing for your phone as they may be on the quiet side however.

I wish I had a long list of wireless headsets to recommend, but those are few and far between.


----------



## DCB305

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ...I wish I had a long list of wireless headsets to recommend, but those are few and far between.



Anyone heard about or tried these...http://www.lucidsound.com/headsets/ls40.html

I am very curious...7.1, DTS:X for consoles, and wireless! If they were open back I might have already bought them. Anyhow, since topic of wireless came up I figured i’d ask.


----------



## themrmikemcd

DCB305 said:


> Anyone heard about or tried these...http://www.lucidsound.com/headsets/ls40.html
> 
> I am very curious...7.1, DTS:X for consoles, and wireless! If they were open back I might have already bought them. Anyhow, since topic of wireless came up I figured i’d ask.


It's very hard for me to trust anybody who has reviewed those because so many people got sent free pairs to review and you never know whether or not they're trying to cater to the company or give an honest review.


----------



## EsaT

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got a surprise by mail yesterday. Something a little different, and probably very new to most of you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great, like we needed more LEDs...
I wonder if they next put those lights also to inside the cup "to improve the sound"...

_Wire Material: Enameled Copper Wire_
Anyone ever found something else?
Maybe they think buyer of those might be confused and think that you could use cotton thread as electric conductor...





themrmikemcd said:


> It's very hard for me to trust anybody who has reviewed those because so many people got sent free pairs to review and you never know whether or not they're trying to cater to the company or give an honest review.


And why do they keep always using from very challenging to extremely bad for soundstage -closed design for these surround headsets?
For that boom boom goes the bass sound?


----------



## matthewh133 (Nov 25, 2017)

I just got a PS4 and I want to use it on my TV with headphones.

I currently own the Schiit mini stack with I use with the ZMF Eikon, but I don't really want to move the Schiit stack from my desk. What's the best way to get my ZMF Eikon working with good quality sound and surround sound with the PS4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2017)

You can be sure whether I get sent a pair of headphones for free or not to get the nitty gritty. I give the companies a chance to refuse the review if I outright tell them it's gonna be a critical review. So at the very least you'll get an honest review of a less than stellar product or I'll let you know a headphone wasn't up to my relatively lax standards.

For instance, the Nuforce HP800 was a free item, and I still reviewed it critically. I dunno if they liked that either. The scores were ok, but the review tells you everything you need to know.

Thankfully, most headphones I reviewed have been at the very least decent, where SOMEONE out there will like what they bring.

I may have burned my bridges with Turtle Beach though after the Z2 review. Hahahaha. Astro also had some bad scores with some other free products I received as well. In fact, the A50 was mine to keep, and I told them it was ok, for them to take it back.

A shame as I have heard things I really liked from these companies. I dunno, maybe I'll contact them to try out some of their better stuff.

The 1more headset will be interesting because I'll have to talk to the boss at Guru if I outright don't like them, to see if he can just dismiss a review. I'm hopeful they'll be decent though. I'll know Monday when I get all day to mess with them.

I wish I had a TRRS female into chat/audio 3.5mm splitter so I could test the headset with my X7. Right now, I can only test it via USB, or phone.


----------



## illram

Just fired up Civ 4 for the first time in a while and wow, this game has some real soundstage-testing worthy audio. Never noticed it before as I the last time I played this game was before my headphone addiction set in. 

The sounds when you are zoomed into the city screen have a lot of very far out staging if you have phones that can hack it. 4000BC era works fine for this so no timesuck necessary.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can be sure whether I get sent a pair of headphones for free or not to get the nitty gritty. I give the companies a chance to refuse the review if I outright tell them it's gonna be a critical review. So at the very least you'll get an honest review of a less than stellar product or I'll let you know a headphone wasn't up to my relatively lax standards.
> 
> For instance, the Nuforce HP800 was a free item, and I still reviewed it critically. I dunno if they liked that either. The scores were ok, but the review tells you everything you need to know.
> 
> ...


Oh I trust your reviews and have bought at least 5 headphones you reviewed. It's when you see youtubers all getting the same headphones at the same time from  companies like turttle beach. I mean I dont blame them really. They have to make a living too. That's why I like coming to a place like this where people can be honest about the products.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 26, 2017)

themrmikemcd said:


> Oh I trust your reviews and have bought at least 5 headphones you reviewed. It's when you see youtubers all getting the same headphones at the same time from  companies like turttle beach. I mean I dont blame them really. They have to make a living too. That's why I like coming to a place like this where people can be honest about the products.



To be fair, it's probably because the companies have just released that product and have sent them out to all media for impressions/reviews. They can't always cherry pick what they want.

It makes sense to review what's current and upcoming. Filling a niche as to review only what's well known and tested isn't sustainable if you're making s living off reviewing. You gotta have SOME rapport with companies. Some make it easier than others by always releasing good products however.

Like, I'm positive everything Sennheiser sends me is gonna be good in some way. They don't seem to make a bad product. At least nothing I've personally used.

The gaming companies MAY however have some hits and misses. Those are trickier.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Mad Lust Envy said:


> To be fair, it's probably because the companies have just released that product and have sent them out to all media for impressions/reviews. They can't always cherry pick what they want.
> 
> It makes sense to review what's current and upcoming. Filling a niche as to review only what's well known and tested isn't sustainable if you're making s living off reviewing. You gotta have SOME rapport with companies. Some make it easier than others by always releasing good products however.


Thats totally fair. I did make a rather broad statement earlier. I think I have just gotten less trusting now days with how much money some of these headphones cost. I guess that's really on me.  I certainly shouldn't discourage anyone from looking into reviews for headphones considering how many you have reviewed and have gotten me to buy (I haven't been let down so far). So yea, that was an ignorant statement I made before.  I guess from now on I'll just suggest people check multiple reviews to  help them make the best decision.


----------



## abuch47 (Nov 26, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm postitive everything Sennheiser sends me is gonna be good



Always knew you were a shill 

I wonder how much you'd like the th-x00


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> No. Blame Microsoft fir that. They require usb audio devices to have a $35 authentication chip built in.



So would it even be worth me getting a Mixamp TR to run in stereo mode (using Windows Sonic/Atmos on Xbox)? Only using headphones like the Game One or SHP9500/AD700x maybe but would the Mixamp improve audio compared to the controller jack route?


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> So would it even be worth me getting a Mixamp TR to run in stereo mode (using Windows Sonic/Atmos on Xbox)? Only using headphones like the Game One or SHP9500/AD700x maybe but would the Mixamp improve audio compared to the controller jack route?


Seems like a bit of a waste if you're not going to use headphone virtualization built into the Mixamp but then again, there aren't many USB headsets for Xbox anyway.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Nov 26, 2017)

Yethal said:


> Seems like a bit of a waste if you're not going to use headphone virtualization built into the Mixamp but then again, there aren't many USB headsets for Xbox anyway.



Yea. That was my concern but its the only one box solution really for the Xbox. If only the G5 worked for chat on the Xbox like it does PS4.


----------



## dragonuck

Reading about audio dac amp preamps.  Read that Optical is max 5.1 channels and HDMI can perform far better such as 7.1    so would this be an option

HDCVT HDV-MB01 HDMI 2.0 to HDMI with Audio (HDMI 18Gbps extractor with HDCP2.2

So my Superlux HD668B connected to the hdmi audio extrator above  this extractor via hdmi in is connected to the xbox one hdmi port on the hdmi out    the other end of the extractor hdmi out goes to the tv

Thoughts  has anyone used this extractor


----------



## Helvetica bold

I have an old, MixAmp 5.8 from 2011. Has the audio improved that much that its worth an upgrade to the current model?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 27, 2017)

First impression with the 1More Spearhead through USB is quite positive. Volume knob doubles as a bass eq when pressed in (toggles between volume and bass volume). Haven't tested what region of bass it affects yet (update: 30hz slider is affected in EQ), you can definitely get from super competitive no bass, to overwhelming bloatedness. Somewhere in between sounds excellent, with the rest sound being crisp/even.

*edit: Nvm I'm an idiot, and noticed that I'm supposed to right click to open up other sections in the software. There is a lot there.  I was on an EQ. I'll have to retest lol. Also noticed I was messing specifically with 30hz range of bass with the bass adjusting on the headset. That's good. Better 30hz than 60hz.*


I ordered a TRRS into mic/audio splitter, so I'll be able to test it as is with my X7 (which disables the volume knob/bass buttons on the headset).

This is just short first impression with music.

Sound quality is absolutely agreeable and on the right side of things, so no dud here. 

I'm relieved as I came into it expecting muddy/veiled. Thank goodness it surprised me in a very good way, lol.

It also sounds quite open!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 27, 2017)

As far as I can tell, toggling the bass button automatically turns on the equalizer. There are a bunch of presets, and of course you can manually adjust in the software, with 30hz being the range you can adjust in the headset directly. Their 'default' eq preset is slightly v shaped (with the peak in the curve being all the way up at 16hz, lending to more air, and not piercing sharpness) and easily the best of the bunch, and I feel how the headset sounds its best. If you turn it off, the headset is relatively tame/well balanced, but not as dynamic. I think the eq used is great and I wouldn't even stray from it. For the sake of the review I'll test out non-eq as well though.

I also think the headset ships with that default EQ on, so it's the way I think 1more wants the headset to be gauged by as the real default, so I'll note that. I think it's the correct choice.


----------



## patrikh

You should try the STAX SR-007 mk1. Of all the headphones I have gamed with, these are 10/10/10 ez given that your room isn't too noisy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish.


----------



## EsaT

Today fetched from post used AKG K702 I manaded to get for 105€ and that "detail whoring" sure describes them.
You have to specifically listen for bass, but foot steps and such come "loud and clear".
With foot steps etc being already emphasized by CMSS-3D those simply come with inhuman sharpness.
SBX Pro Surround sounds more natural.

And comfort is definitely very good beating my "tape holding pieces from falling" HD595. (which can now rot all they want)
Also would have to pretty much Dumbo for ears to not fit inside these pads.

So for someone looking for maximum competitiviness K701/702 should definitely be in top priority position.
Even new ones cost less than quite few gaming junks.


----------



## HairyHook

Hello guys,

Just registered to thank you for all the hard work you have put towards this thread, specially MLE. You guys have helped me SO MUCH, but I feel I still need some advice.

Back in 2012, I built my first computer and I got a Soundblaster Recon3D PCIe. I also bought an Astro A40 with the Mixamp (Pro I think). This setup is still in place until I decided to look for a replacement few weeks ago, wondering if there was something better out there for my needs, PC gaming and some music. I decided to upgrade the Astro A40 and purchased the Astro A50. Both my wife and I were super disappointed with them, in our opinion they did not sound better than the A40 and they were more uncomfortable.

Decided to return the A50s and started looking for "best gaming headset...", terrible mistake. All "gaming" gear we bought sounded bad and the build quality was terrible, so we ended up returning everything. Then I found this post and started researching. It was decided, we wanted an all rounder, fun, open headphone and we would do either the vmoda or the mod mic. I could not decide between the Fidelio X2 and the AKG k712 Pro, so I bought both and will sell the one we don't want to keep (or maybe keep both, who knows). So far I have received the AKG k712 and I was very impressed, although I would prefer a little bit more of bass (fun). I'm still waiting on the X2s.

Now, the surround factor. I've always wanted good surround headphones and feel immersed in the games with 360 sound. The Astro A40 had Surround sound but I found it terribly disappointing. It was not realistic and sounded metallic. I almost give up until I read about the Sennheiser GSX 1000. I purchased it and the binaural surround sound is pretty impressive but I wonder is there is anything better out there? 

I have a problem with the new AKG k712/X2 + GSX 1000 setup though. My wife and I sometimes watch each other game and want to hear the game audio. With my previous setup, I used the Soundblaster Recon3D to send audio to my speakers and play simultaneously the stereo mix to optical, which was connected to the Mixamp. I could wear headphones and she listen through speakers, or viceversa. Now I don't know how to accomplish this with the new equipment. The GSX 1000 is USB and I'm not using the Recon3D anymore to send the signal to two different places. What can I do? Sometimes we want to play single player games and we both want to wear headphones to feel immersed. Is that feasible? 

Thank you in advance for all your help!


----------



## EsaT

HairyHook said:


> I could not decide between the Fidelio X2 and the AKG k712 Pro, so I bought both and will sell the one we don't want to keep (or maybe keep both, who knows). So far I have received the AKG k712 and I was very impressed, although I would prefer a little bit more of bass (fun).
> 
> Now, the surround factor. I've always wanted good surround headphones and feel immersed in the games with 360 sound. The Astro A40 had Surround sound but I found it terribly disappointing. It was not realistic and sounded metallic. I almost give up until I read about the Sennheiser GSX 1000. I purchased it and the binaural surround sound is pretty impressive but I wonder is there is anything better out there?
> 
> I have a problem with the new AKG k712/X2 + GSX 1000 setup though. My wife and I sometimes watch each other game and want to hear the game audio. With my previous setup, I used the Soundblaster Recon3D to send audio to my speakers and play simultaneously the stereo mix to optical, which was connected to the Mixamp. I could wear headphones and she listen through speakers, or viceversa. Now I don't know how to accomplish this with the new equipment. The GSX 1000 is USB and I'm not using the Recon3D anymore to send the signal to two different places. What can I do? Sometimes we want to play single player games and we both want to wear headphones to feel immersed. Is that feasible?


Anything more than that level of bass starts to seriously kill details.
Cheap closed garbage just often use strong bass to hide lack of sound quality...
That along with closed design's soundstage challenges/problems makes "gaming" stuff usually from mediocre to very bad for gaming.
Just listen these in stereo mode without effects with those quality headphones:



Beyerdynamic DT990 might have slightly more feel of bass than K712 basing to rating in starting post.
Should find that out in next week with K712 now in its way to post office.
Though if DT990 really has more (fun) feel in bass than K712 would expect K712 to win in details.
Anyway frequency responses are very similar:
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=4163&graphID[1]=2141&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

While having good binaural simulation otherwise Sennheiser GSX is full snake oil overpriced, lackluster, gaming product marketing scam.
Its DAC and headphone output struggle to match cheap ass Audigy Fx/Xonar DGX. (just look for price of them)
And like you noticed doesn't even have connectivity that luxury price should give.
Lot cheaper Sound BlasterX G5 has way more connections.
SB E5 has even two headphone jacks... While it would likely require similar headphones it could surely feed some active speakers.
And still lot cheaper internal Sound Blaster Z with better DAC and output includes optical out for stereo PCM output. (+ AC3/DD or DTS encoded 5.1)
(while new Sound BlasterX AE-5 has very beefy headphone output for sound card)
Sennheiser must be laughing their ass off while igniting cigars with bank notes when counting profits from GSX sales...

Myself not having speakers solved the problem for getting sound also to friend four years ago by warming up ("long" 15 seconds) my soldering station and starting to assemble two Objective2 DIY kits.
DT990 and K712 should make nice similar sound pair for that...


----------



## HairyHook

EsaT said:


> Anything more than that level of bass starts to seriously kill details.
> Cheap closed garbage just often use strong bass to hide lack of sound quality...
> That along with closed design's soundstage challenges/problems makes "gaming" stuff usually from mediocre to very bad for gaming.
> Just listen these in stereo mode without effects with those quality headphones:
> ...




Thank you EsaT. I've received the X2's and after comparing them, I'm keeping them vs the AKG k712 Pro. In case it helps somebody, these are my reasons:

1- Lower impedance, easier to drive and use with cell phones, PS4, etc.
2- Compatible with the V-Moda BoomMic due to standard 3.5 jack. I really want a single cable for both audio and mic.
3- Stronger bass than the k712 Pro's out of the box, without compromising details. 
3- Comfort. This point will make no sense to some people, but here we go. AKG k712 Pro are lighter and more comfortable overall, however my ears touch the inside side of the pads and I don't like the feeling at all. Wife has tiny ears and it also happens to her, although she did not realize it until I mentioned it. Also the X2's campling force is stronger and they feel better positioned in my head. Both headphones are super comfortable, don't get me wrong.

Now that the headphone + mic setup has been decided, I just need to evaluate other options vs GSX 1000.


----------



## Diamondpact

I hope everyone is doing well. I came into a dillemma. My headphones cable is beginning to go bad(also an excuse to get a better cable deep down) Its the akg k7xx headphones. The cable that i need is a female mini xlr to 1/4 inch or 3.5 mm male connection. 

I spent hours everywhere from amazon to ebay to google trying to find good and proper ones, but all seem to be too cheaply built or have a give and take. Ex: looks good but fragile, or durable but poor sound quality ect. Im at my wits end 

Do you guys have any recommendations for the best but affordable cable for these cans and my setup? Creative x7 LE is my sound device. 

Ideally under 100 dollars for the cables, ill consider all options tho, im open to all opinions and options. I also get confused with the mini xlr cables that are balanced and unbalanced for video or for microphone ect. I think my cans are balanced from what ive researched.

Thanks in advanced for your help/insight.


----------



## Yethal (Dec 3, 2017)

Diamondpact said:


> I hope everyone is doing well. I came into a dillemma. My headphones cable is beginning to go bad(also an excuse to get a better cable deep down) Its the akg k7xx headphones. The cable that i need is a female mini xlr to 1/4 inch or 3.5 mm male connection.
> 
> I spent hours everywhere from amazon to ebay to google trying to find good and proper ones, but all seem to be too cheaply built or have a give and take. Ex: looks good but fragile, or durable but poor sound quality ect. Im at my wits end
> 
> ...


Depends on your definition of affordable but Forza Audioworks makes great cables and their Color series start at $35.

EDIT: Screw the Color series, go for the Claire series it's their best looking one.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> Depends on your definition of affordable but Forza Audioworks makes great cables and their Color series start at $35.
> 
> EDIT: Screw the Color series, go for the Claire series it's their best looking one.



Another vote for Forza. I prefer their noir series though as I like cotton(like) sheething.


----------



## mbyrnes

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/phi...o-football-that-weekend.866518/#post-13886687

Anyone who lives in the Philadelphia region, this is a great meetup where you can hear just about any headphone you want. worth the drive for sure. Everyone is welcome, so if you want to listen to a bunch of headphones, I'll see you late January! Last year there were about 35 different setups, and a few from big companies. Hifiman had their new headphone and amp ($18,000 if purchased together, $21,000 if separate. Someone brought a Blue Hawaii and MK009 electrostatic setup (think that's the name). Great first meet if you have never been. there were probably around 100+ people there, and it was fantastic!


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/phi...o-football-that-weekend.866518/#post-13886687
> 
> Anyone who lives in the Philadelphia region, this is a great meetup where you can hear just about any headphone you want. worth the drive for sure. Everyone is welcome, so if you want to listen to a bunch of headphones, I'll see you late January! Last year there were about 35 different setups, and a few from big companies. Hifiman had their new headphone and amp ($18,000 if purchased together, $21,000 if separate. Someone brought a Blue Hawaii and MK009 electrostatic setup (think that's the name). Great first meet if you have never been. there were probably around 100+ people there, and it was fantastic!



Are you planning on bringing the X7 over?


----------



## mbyrnes

Yethal said:


> Are you planning on bringing the X7 over?



I can if you want me to. Trying to figure out what to bring. I'll have to ask about a 4K TV. If he has one, I'll bring my Xbox One X. I could probably bring a 1080p TV, but it's old. 

I'll bring my HE-X V2s for sure. If others want me to bring stuff, I will. Not bringing all of it though. There's too much stuff, lol.


----------



## Killer9321

hi guys, after 2 years my Sennheiser Game One  Mic are dead and amazon refund me

with 150-200€ i'll buy these amazing headset again or i could try another one?

i've a Phoebus Solo Soundcard and I'm looking for Open Headphones.

gaming mostly FPS.


----------



## Diamondpact (Dec 3, 2017)

Their cables look pretty nice, only downside is I cant find any mini xlr cables on their site 
Or would it be the extendors?

I basically need the mini xlr female to jack


----------



## Yethal

Diamondpact said:


> Their cables look pretty nice, only downside is I cant find any mini xlr cables on their site
> Or would it be the extendors?
> 
> I basically need the mini xlr female to jack


In headphone cables select the series you want to buy then select Akg from the headphones dropdown.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know what I'd really like to do?

Do a clip on headphone roundup. Like, pit all the budget clip ons and compare them to the KSC75/KSC35.

I notice Philips, Panasonic, Sony, Audio Technica have some.

Come on companies, get at me.


----------



## AxelCloris

You just want new clip-ons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To try/test/review


----------



## EsaT

Killer9321 said:


> hi guys, after 2 years my Sennheiser Game One  Mic are dead and amazon refund me
> 
> with 150-200€ i'll buy these amazing headset again or i could try another one?
> 
> ...


For neutral bass open headphones AKG K701/702 (702 with detachable cable) are at top level in competitiviness...
With slight change for some bass.
For headphone balancing between good fun bass and overal accurate sound Beyerdynamic DT990 would fit to that budget. (Pro version meant for studio use is even below)
AKG K712 goes little over.
For headset with built in mic there just aren't much of credible contenders.

And don't upgrade to Win10 or if you have it pray that next update won't break things.
Asus has completely ditched support of Phoebus cards.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

EsaT said:


> For neutral bass open headphones AKG K701/702 (702 with detachable cable) are at top level in competitiviness...
> With slight change for some bass.
> For headphone balancing between good fun bass and overal accurate sound Beyerdynamic DT990 would fit to that budget. (Pro version meant for studio use is even below)
> AKG K712 goes little over.
> ...



Agree with the K702. Had a small adaptor and used the VModa Boom Pro mic with it. Using the Game Ones now but prefer the AKG.


----------



## Killer9321

EsaT said:


> For neutral bass open headphones AKG K701/702 (702 with detachable cable) are at top level in competitiviness...
> With slight change for some bass.
> For headphone balancing between good fun bass and overal accurate sound Beyerdynamic DT990 would fit to that budget. (Pro version meant for studio use is even below)
> AKG K712 goes little over.
> ...


could show that detachable cable that i need for akg 702 and why i need it?

dt990 i could buy anyone, which version should i buy?

akg 712 fit in my budget.


----------



## Pairzilla

I just got the sound blaster X7. I set it up for speakers and headphones. The speakers work but when I plug into the headphone jack there's no sound at all. Tried both headphone jacks. Any help or suggestions? Thanks


----------



## TeeReQs

Pairzilla said:


> I just got the sound blaster X7. I set it up for speakers and headphones. The speakers work but when I plug into the headphone jack there's no sound at all. Tried both headphone jacks. Any help or suggestions? Thanks


Did you try putting the switch to headphones in the Sound Blaster controls?


----------



## Pairzilla

TeeReQs said:


> Did you try putting the switch to headphones in the Sound Blaster controls?


  Yeah it is switched to headphones


----------



## EsaT

Killer9321 said:


> could show that detachable cable that i need for akg 702 and why i need it?
> 
> dt990 i could buy anyone, which version should i buy?
> 
> akg 712 fit in my budget.


K702 comes with cable, instead of just being fixed/soldered inside headphone it uses mini-XLR connector.
So it's easy to replace if cable get's broken/there's different cables available.
K712 uses similar cables.

DT990 Pro version is meant for studio use, so it has less decorated outlook, uses coiled cable instead of 3m straight cable and has some more clamping force...
Though with spring steel inside head band it would break instantly if bent little.
Normal "Edition/Premium" has besides those differences also 32 ohm and 600 ohm variants, which aren't really commonly available.
Anyway while 250 ohm version can have problems with very low voltage devices like cellphone, even Realteks integrated into motherboards drive it past hearing safe volumes.
Also 250 ohms makes it pretty much immune to typical output impedances quaranteeing high damping factor (=good bass control) and also lowers its sensitivity to circuitry noises/interference.

Cable of DT990 is fixed, but it feels very sturdy and is thicker than cables of AKGs or Sennheiser HD595...
HD590's cable was plain weak thread in comparison. (otherwise its design is heck lot better than in current HD59x)
Also suspect Beyerdynamic's cable is reinforced, because it doesn't bend easily and doesn't go into tight "knots" by itself.
AKG's cable again is very flexible, which might put stress on conductors in longer term.

I have K712 waiting in post office and try to do some direct comparison to DT990 in weekend.
Though not sure if it would be better to do some burn in before that.
Didn't observe any burn in with HD595 or DT990, while Superlux HD-330 was "shock treatment", with basically just heavy bass and some treble spike until 5 hours of burn in.


----------



## Killer9321

EsaT said:


> K702 comes with cable, instead of just being fixed/soldered inside headphone it uses mini-XLR connector.
> So it's easy to replace if cable get's broken/there's different cables available.
> K712 uses similar cables.
> 
> ...




so for FPS Gaming what is better?


----------



## Diamondpact

Yethal said:


> In headphone cables select the series you want to buy then select Akg from the headphones dropdown.


https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/search.php?search_query=AKG&orderby=position&orderway=desc
i wasnt able to find any section for akg in here :*(


----------



## raband

Diamondpact said:


> https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/search.php?search_query=AKG&orderby=position&orderway=desc
> i wasnt able to find any section for akg in here :*(



It's the 1st headphone option it defaults to

https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=34


----------



## Yethal

Diamondpact said:


> https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/search.php?search_query=AKG&orderby=position&orderway=desc
> i wasnt able to find any section for akg in here :*(


Every cable series has a dropdown like this one


----------



## Diamondpact

oh crap LOL. Thats completely nubish of me, I was looking at the pics and was like wait a minute, that doesnt look like anything thatll fit my headphone.. My bad XD.

Thanks for the clarification and help. Man, that site is sick. Since that site is based on eu, should i be expecting extra costs like import fees ect when shipping to canada?


----------



## Diamondpact

man, the noir hybrid specs sound sweet. Does the cable really make a difference for soundstage ect? Is there a huge difference between clair and noir hybrids? is there a difference between the hybrids and hpc?

For competitive gaming that is. For music, im assuming there is a big difference from what they are claiming.


----------



## raband

99% snake oil lol


----------



## Diamondpact

cheers, thats good to know, so the color series are more than enough. Now to somehow find out if ill get crazy import fees bringing it into Canada :*(.


----------



## Yethal

Diamondpact said:


> oh **** LOL. Thats completely nubish of me, I was looking at the pics and was like wait a minute, that doesnt look like anything thatll fit my headphone.. My bad XD.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification and help. Man, that site is sick. Since that site is based on eu, should i be expecting extra costs like import fees ect when shipping to canada?


Most probably, can't tell you how much exactly but from what I read in other threads, Canadians have it bad when it comes to customs.



Diamondpact said:


> man, the noir hybrid specs sound sweet. Does the cable really make a difference for soundstage ect? Is there a huge difference between clair and noir hybrids? is there a difference between the hybrids and hpc?
> 
> For competitive gaming that is. For music, im assuming there is a big difference from what they are claiming.


Even if there is a difference it's not big enough to warrant buying a cable half the price of the headphones. Personally I'd go for the Copper/Claire series because the woven wire looks beautiful and you have a bigger choice of connectors but hey, it's your money spend it however you like.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pairzilla said:


> I just got the sound blaster X7. I set it up for speakers and headphones. The speakers work but when I plug into the headphone jack there's no sound at all. Tried both headphone jacks. Any help or suggestions? Thanks



You must 100% update the firmware and software of the X7. 

The X7 not registering the headphone jack was a problem many updates ago.

The X7 doesn't update automatically. You have to go to Creative's website and do it manually for both software and firmware.


----------



## EsaT

Now got AKG K712.
Definitely sound nice straight from the box.
Feels definitely like there's some more presence on mids than in DT990.
Though I guess better to do just in case some "burn in" with them before starting to do comparison.

Also got new pads for DT990s. Hadn't realized original ones had gotten that much "flattened"...
Damn they're soft.
AKG's pad feel lot more firmer, so for eye glasses users Beyer likely wins clearly in longer time comfort.
And while swapping pads also opened them all the way to drivers.
Left side had given some occasional "rattles" starting few years ago so wasn't surprise to find some hairs there.
Also found some finer fibers of ear cup lining felt and possibly that cover "paper" which is supposed to keep hairs out from also right side, though those are so light and thin suspect they don't cause anything.


Also have AMD RX Vega 64 gotten at nice price to install to PC and undervolt. About time to move on from that old GTX680 Kepler.
Plus Got DJI Mavic Pro Platinum to start learning.
Not going to have problems in getting spare time spent...


----------



## Pairzilla

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You must 100% update the firmware and software of the X7.
> 
> The X7 not registering the headphone jack was a problem many updates ago.
> 
> The X7 doesn't update automatically. You have to go to Creative's website and do it manually for both software and firmware.



Thanks, but I did actually update firmware and install software from website. I tried the headphones after it was updated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2017)

Keep unpluigging the headphones until you hear a click coming from the X7. Sometimes upon turning the X7 on, it won't register the headphones. Oher than that, I dunno what to tell you but check the software on windows that it's on headphone. Also, headphone and speakers have different volume levels.

The X7 isn't very user friendly. Windows has its own volume, headphones has its own volume, speakers have their own volume. Everytime I use the X7, I lower the volume completely until I hear it click to mute, then I raise the volume little by little.

Also, use the app on phone and check that its on headphones as well.

Make sure sound devices is set to the X7 as well. Dunno if you're using USB or optical, but they are different in Windows.


----------



## Steven Seagal

EsaT said:


> Now got AKG K712.
> Definitely sound nice straight from the box.
> Feels definitely like there's some more presence on mids than in DT990.
> Though I guess better to do just in case some "burn in" with them before starting to do comparison.
> ...



Can you tell us about soundstage (width and depth) and positional clue in comparison to the DT990?


----------



## Schroeder

Hi,

I'm looking for a competetive headphone for games like CS:GO, Fortnite, Battlefield etc.
At the moment I am happy with my HE-400, but after reading this thread I've got curious about those headphones with the widest and best soundstage.
For single player games and most of my music I will stick with my HE-400, because I love them so much.
They are just lacking the mentioned wide soundstage, on every other merit I'm absolutely content with them.

In this thread people and MLE mention the following headphones with the best soundstage:


K701/K702

Q701

K712

AD700
HD598
The Q701, AD700 and HD598 are discontinued in my country and I can't buy them.
The new AD700X should be the same as the old AD700.
The new HD599 are not the same as the HD598, because they trade soundstage for more bass.
The old Q701 should be roughly the same as the new 2017 China version of the K702.
The K712 trades a little bit of it's soundstage for a warmer sound and more bass.

I think I will either get the K702 (170€) or the AD700X (180€).
Can anyone tell me, which one would be better?
Furthermore, which of those headphones would better complement my HE-400?

I would also like to ask, whether anyone has tried one of those new headphones for gaming?


Beyerdynamic Amiron/DT1990
HD 599
HD 660s
Thanks for every help!


----------



## raband

Honestly dude...

The can that is the most comfortable on your head is the best one.

Every headphone you mention is perfect.

The one you can wear for hours on end is the one you want to buy.

I love Senn's on my head for headphones - some hate them

I love Shoei on my head for motorbike helmets - some hate them

I need a "wide" soled shoe on my foot for shoes - some need narrow.

You're talking quality headphones - get one that fits


----------



## TeeReQs

raband said:


> Honestly dude...
> 
> The can that is the most comfortable on your head is the best one.
> 
> ...



This. I have both K7XX, and Senn 598s. always go back to my 598s due to comfort, although I do like the sound stage from the AKGs. The K7XX is a pretty big set of cans, and feels like a lot of weight on my head. This is especially true when used with a mod mic, and there's just a mess of wires to deal with. I use a boom mice built into the cable for the 598's and its just one cord. AD700x are great for positioning, but that's another set of headphones that the fit can be problematic. They tend to feel like they are slipping down my head, and distracts me from what I'm playing. If you have the opportunity, see if you can try a pair on before you buy. Senns can be a bit clampy at first, but they loosen up.


----------



## EsaT

Schroeder said:


> The new AD700X should be the same as the old AD700.
> The new HD599 are not the same as the HD598, because they trade soundstage for more bass.
> 
> I think I will either get the K702 (170€) or the AD700X (180€).
> ...


AD700X apparently slightly increases AD700's bass.
But when there's no bass to start with, result is still going to be pretty much bassless.
So that as much bass as in tin can description of thread's starting post is likely good.
And with HE-400 having neutral, but very deep reaching bass and recession above 1 kHz you likely wouldn't like Audio Technica's in comparison lots of upper mid/treble without bass sound.
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...e=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

With what Sennheiser is charging for their fashion plastics HD59x wouldn't exactly consider them.
Also if HD599 is going for fun bass sound then it has to compete against AKG K712 and Beyer's DT990...
Just few days ago in one Finnish forum person was looking, if there are any wireless open headphones with sound quality in same class as his 89 "vintage" DT990.
Would consider it major miracle for Sennheiser's fashion design to survive just half of that time.

Also AKGs long time tried mechanical design is more sound looking than Sennheisers.

As for comfort not sure if I've just now gotten more used to AKG's bigger but firmer pads.
While they still give feel of firmer pressure than Beyerdynamic with its very soft pads it's not bothering anymore.
Anyway with that "automatically adjusting" headband lower clamping force would be likely problem for them staying in their position.
Beyerdynamic has there definitely very good design with good adjustment range to keep cups in right place without relying on enough pressure.




Schroeder said:


> I would also like to ask, whether anyone has tried one of those new headphones for gaming?
> 
> Beyerdynamic Amiron/DT1990
> HD 599


With what I've read it seems like in soundstage comparison between them DT1990 loses despite of its "DT990 successorish" model number...
Myself wouldn't look at this millennnium's HD5xx Sennheisers basing on own experience of that Chinese fashion plastics level mechanical design...
(with their "support" keeping silent for 200€ product starting to crumble in 2½ year being the last straw)


----------



## Avean

Whats the recommendation for 100% focus on competetive gaming and positional surround coming from the HD650's? I see people recommend HD598 but cannot buy that anymore. They are selling HD599 but worse soundstage? I see Mad Lust really loved the Game Zero from Sennheiser but yeah....whats the recommendation? No budget


----------



## EsaT

Steven Seagal said:


> Can you tell us about soundstage (width and depth) and positional clue in comparison to the DT990?


With also studying that Mavic Pro before trying first flight (instead of after crashing...) haven't gotten to doing more thorough comparison.
Not that I got much anything really done yesterday with total of fair half hour of power cuts after late afternoon. (late autumn storm)
With stuffy feeling nose since afternoon just hoping I'm not getting flu, that would seriously mess any comparison attempts at least for couple days.



raband said:


> I need a "wide" soled shoe on my foot for shoes - some need narrow.


Widest part of my foot reaches forward to midway of big toe.
If looking just shoe length some shoe models feel like they're made for people with only three toes...
Try to top that.


----------



## TeeReQs

Avean said:


> Whats the recommendation for 100% focus on competetive gaming and positional surround coming from the HD650's? I see people recommend HD598 but cannot buy that anymore. They are selling HD599 but worse soundstage? I see Mad Lust really loved the Game Zero from Sennheiser but yeah....whats the recommendation? No budget


You can find the 598's used. AD700/x are hard to beat for pure positional accuracy in FPS.


----------



## EsaT

Avean said:


> Whats the recommendation for 100% focus on competetive gaming and positional surround coming from the HD650's? I see people recommend HD598 but cannot buy that anymore. They are selling HD599 but worse soundstage? I see Mad Lust really loved the Game Zero from Sennheiser but yeah....whats the recommendation? No budget


Out of super competitive cans Audio Technica AD700-serie would likely sound entirely too bassless after HD650.
AKG K701/702 would fare better in bass.
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...e=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
Q701 would have mostly similar bass to HD650 if current K701/702 share same sound.
(K712 actually has more bass than HD650)

From Sennheiser forget HD59x.
Their mechanical design with that single sided ear cup attachment to head band is at Chinese fashion trinket level.
Gaming headsets are actually better in that with cup attachment more similar to HD650.

And MLE tested open design *Game One*.
Game Zero is closed design and hence suffers at least soundstage challenges.
Besides apparently also typical closed design sound challenges:
https://www.windowscentral.com/sennheiser-game-zero-review


----------



## Yethal

Buy the Massdrop PC37X, sounds like game one but it's half the price


----------



## TeeReQs

EsaT said:


> Out of super competitive cans Audio Technica AD700-serie would likely sound entirely too bassless after HD650.
> AKG K701/702 would fare better in bass.
> http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=853&graphID[1]=2661&graphID[2]=2621&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
> Q701 would have mostly similar bass to HD650 if current K701/702 share same sound.
> ...



To each their own. I really like my 598's. They're comfortable, lightweight and have great positional accuracy. Once their set it's not like you need to adjust them again. AD700's definitely are tinny though, and would only recommend them to someone looking solely from a competitive standpoint with immersion and fun being the least priority. LikeYethal said, PC37X is a great option, especially if you need something with a built in mic.


----------



## Jralston89 (Dec 13, 2017)

Hey forum. first time poster.
I consider myself a smart guy, but this audio stuff makes me feel like a moron. Ill summarize and pray you guys can help and maybe give a recommendation.
-Have high end PC, NO SOUND CARD (MOBO Sabertooth Z170 S, REALTEK ALC1150 audio codec)
-Have K712 and schitt magni 3 in mail (from reading thought I needed amp to power these)
Should I just be getting a Sound card?
80%game 20%music. Really just want great positional audio for my FPS games (PUBG, BF1) and at the same time feel immersed

There are SOOOO many oppinions and I understand why. Instead of getting less confusing the more you read, it seems to get more so due to those oppinions and more subjects that open up like 3D surround audio and what not, its hard to sort through what I actually need to
1. push the k712
2. get the best possible game audio and positional accuracy

ANY help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## Yethal

Jralston89 said:


> Hey forum. first time poster.
> I consider myself a smart guy, but this audio stuff makes me feel like a moron. Ill summarize and pray you guys can help and maybe give a recommendation.
> -Have high end PC, NO SOUND CARD (MOBO Sabertooth Z170 S, REALTEK ALC1150 audio codec)
> -Have K712 and schitt magni 3 in mail (from reading thought I needed amp to power these)
> ...


Since you already have an amp and a pair of cans the only thing you'd need is a virtual surround processor. First, try the Windows 10 built in option (Atmos and Windows Sonic). If that's good enough then there's no need to look further. If it doesn't satisfy you, you may want to look for a soundcard that's able to output virtual surround signal to line out.


----------



## Jralston89

My understanding is my MOBO has an AMP, did I make a mistake thinking I needed one ordering the schitt magni 3? Also if I ended up going the sound card direction as you stated does that make my amp worthless?


----------



## AxelCloris

Jralston89 said:


> My understanding is my MOBO has an AMP, did I make a mistake thinking I needed one ordering the schitt magni 3? Also if I ended up going the sound card direction as you stated does that make my amp worthless?


The quality of a motherboard's built-in amp is going to vary greatly. You bought a Magni 3, so you have an idea what you can expect from it where the mobo is more of a mystery. Often times the built-in amps aren't up to par for better headphones. Personally I'd stick with the Magni 3.


----------



## AlivePT (Dec 13, 2017)

My AKG 712 pro just arrived, and i need some advice in how to connect a mic to use on a xbox party.

I have a sound blaster x7 and i would like to take advantage of the features that offers or if you guys know a better way to do this i am open to suggestions.

Thanks,


----------



## raband

Modmic is the usual way people seem to head

https://antlionaudio.com/


----------



## TeeReQs

AlivePT said:


> My AKG 712 pro just arrived, and i need some advice in how to connect a mic to use on a xbox party.
> 
> I have a sound blaster x7 and i would like to take advantage of the features that offers or if you guys know a better way to do this i am open to suggestions.
> 
> Thanks,



I have an X7 as well, and for Xbox Chat, it takes quite a bit of cords to get it working properly. I believe there's a diagram in the original post. What I've been doing to eliminate all the mess is using the Xbox app on my PC, and starting a party with my friends from there. The only cord you will need plugged in is the headphone and mic cords into the X7, and nothing into the controller. The only downfall to this is that you won't be able to talk to anybody outside of your party, and you need your PC and X7 close by.


----------



## Avean (Dec 14, 2017)

EsaT said:


> Out of super competitive cans Audio Technica AD700-serie would likely sound entirely too bassless after HD650.
> AKG K701/702 would fare better in bass.
> http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=853&graphID[1]=2661&graphID[2]=2621&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=0&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
> Q701 would have mostly similar bass to HD650 if current K701/702 share same sound.
> ...



Many of those sets are expired from 2011 i see. I see theyre selling a K712 Pro but not good for competetive gaming people say.
I am a bit worried going away from Sennheiser, they have been my go to headset for so many years giving me great sound.
Im definetely gonna keep my HD650s for music but i need to find a set perfect for positional audio.

Maybe going up higher on the Sennheiser lineup would be the best thing? Like HD700 or HD800 if im crazy enough, those provide a better soundstage from what ive read so far.


----------



## illram (Dec 14, 2017)

I just got the Koss ESP950's in from Massdrop and gave them a whirl tonight with Fallout 4. Takes me a few hours to really gauge the precision of cans but initial impressions are very positive.  Spacious, good imaging, immediately apparent positioning without even trying to really listen for it. (Needed to EQ it though, see below.) Compared to the 6XX's I have been using for the past few days it was immediately apparent the surround positioning on the ESP9500's is superior. Sort of unfair since the 6XX are a bit congested but it's always a good initial sign when you try on a new pair and the difference is obvious (in a positive direction). Anyone else here ever tried these cans?

On music... wow. These are really great. I find I can EQ away some of the issues with the ES90 energizer (to my ears at least). A poor man's alternative to getting a Stax amp to pair it with...It did sound a little "muffled" out of the box but that's gone. I'm inclined to think with more listening that these may enter god-tier territory for me...up there with the HD800S and HE560 for me personally. Just have to get past the fact that when handling them they feel like cheap headphones you find in a cereal box...


----------



## Dozdoz

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum but I read a lot of reply in this thread before asking. I'm looking for headphone and DAC to go with for gaming ( Games like The Witcher 3 to PES2k18 and other like Diablo 3 ) and with good sound for music. Budget is around 350€ ( I live in France ). I also want to connect my 2.1 Bose Companion 50 to it.

For the headphones I hesitate between Senn HD599 (159€) / AKG K702 (150€) / Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (138€)

And for the DAC I don't know which one fit good with my future headphone and 2.1. ( I found SMSL AD18 but did i miss other product ? )

Thank you huyz and sorry for my imperfect English i'm a French baguette :x ( Si des FR lisent ça et veulent bien me filer un coup de main ça serait très sympa, merci). Have a good day.


----------



## Pairzilla

Are the Sennheiser game one better than hd598s? anyone have experience with both? Better as in for gaming mainly


----------



## Yethal (Dec 14, 2017)

Pairzilla said:


> Are the Sennheiser game one better than hd598s? anyone have experience with both? Better as in for gaming mainly


I do. tbh since KetDirect introduced the 598-dedicated microphone they're both on par as far as gaming duty goes. Just pick the cheapest one.


----------



## rjjasick

Purely based on competitive gaming; what's the skinny on the Audio Technical AD700X, AD900X, or AD1000X?  Purely for gaming and positional audio in FPS, I've heard the AD700X is good, $50 more for the AD900X, then jumping up to double the price of 900's to get the AD1000X.  I'm not looking at critical listening for music on these; strictly gaming.

These will be to augment my bass heavy cans I have for other 'fun' gaming and music.  Phillips X1's, Monolith M1060, HD6XX, TH-X0.


----------



## EsaT

Avean said:


> Many of those sets are expired from 2011 i see. I see theyre selling a K712 Pro but not good for competetive gaming people say.
> I am a bit worried going away from Sennheiser, they have been my go to headset for so many years giving me great sound.
> Im definetely gonna keep my HD650s for music but i need to find a set perfect for positional audio.
> 
> Maybe going up higher on the Sennheiser lineup would be the best thing? Like HD700 or HD800 if im crazy enough, those provide a better soundstage from what ive read so far.


With fun bass impact K712 isn't at the highest level in competitiveness, but that doesn't mean they're not good.
Before DT990 I used bass neutral Sennheiser HD595 (preceeding version of HD598 rated by MLE in starting post) and while bass neutrality of HD595 makes it easier to distinguish foot steps difference isn't exactly big. (unlike to closed design gaming garbages)
But of course K701/702 with more neutral bass are better for that "detail whoring".

Once myself thought that everything Sennheiser makes is good.
Until after using last millennium design HD590 for nearly ten years (with second cable swap coming) got HD595.
With problem being in badly designed structure used by whole HD5xx serie:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack.534963/
Though cynic in me says design change from HD590 is deliberate to make sure they don't survive too long...


----------



## shuto77

I picked up an X7 for the third time, lol. I'm going to use it for now with an OG Hifiman HE-400, but I think I need to EQ the mids up a bit. Is anyone using/has used this combination?


----------



## EsaT

Dozdoz said:


> looking for headphone and DAC to go with for gaming ( Games like The Witcher 3 to PES2k18 and other like Diablo 3 ) and with good sound for music. Budget is around 350€ ( I live in France ). I also want to connect my 2.1 Bose Companion 50 to it.
> 
> For the headphones I hesitate between Senn HD599 (159€) / AKG K702 (150€) / Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro (138€)
> 
> ...


Well, if your computer gives out analog sound you already have DAC in there...
With own experience of mechanical design of HD59x would suggest staying away from them, especially when there's mechanically lot better designed headphones for cheaper price.
As apparently HD599 moves away from neutral bass of HD595/8 it would be in competitive sense (picking up foot step sounds and such) farther from level of AKG K702.
While in fun sound direction DT990 again offers very fan bass impact with still good soundstage and details... In design made to last.
Can well believe people having decades old DT990s in use...
That design is from time when product durability was more like thing of honour to designers, unlike in modern quarterly capitalism.

Would pretty much say choise between K702 and DT990 coming to:
Do you want closer to neutral bass for easiest distinguishing of foot steps and such sounds at the expense of less fun?
Or good impact bass for fun immersion with some compromise in competitiveness?
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2621&graphID[]=2141&scale=30
Though for music you might want to give DT990 some minus in equalizer's 8 kHz band.
Unless you're used to treble which isn't rolled off.
Speaking of that what headphones you have currently?

That technically Digital-to-Analog Converter term has become fashion marketing name for selling less features as more.
While PES2k18 no doubt lacks benefit from more than stereo sound, Witcher and such games would have better immersion with binaural sound.
And that's where those fashion DACs have nothing.
Especially with good open headphones with big soundstage difference between stereo and binaural sound is big...
Basically like comparing "in left ear-in center of head-in right ear" sound to actually being in that environment listening sounds coming from all directions and different distances.
While with bad headphones binaural sound loses its immersion.
(so naturally most gaming branded headphones are bad Chinese garbage...)

Looking how you're also going to use both speakers and headphones, it would be good to have something which gives convenient switching between binaural-sound for headphones and speakers with different settings.
For Sound Blaster Z-serie there's SBZ Switcher which can be used to automate switching settings to hotkey.
In others there likely isn't equally easy way.
Or do you have laptop and need external sound card?


And don't worry, your English is very good.
Seen lot worser by people from supposedly English speaking countries.


----------



## shuto77

Hey, @Yethal (or anyone else who knows the answer): My brand new X7 is playing very, very quietly and only out of the left channel. This is the same behavior that I experienced when I had to send mine in for repair last year. Is there anything I can do to troubleshoot this before I return the unit?

I've tried multiple inputs, multiple headphones, multiple devices and both headphone jacks to be thorough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 15, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> I picked up an X7 for the third time, lol. I'm going to use it for now with an OG Hifiman HE-400, but I think I need to EQ the mids up a bit. Is anyone using/has used this combination?



I'm still on my HE400, and in fact placed an order for some Shure 1540 pads for them. HE400 is still a personal fave that I wouldn't replace for much else. Between this for casual gaming, and the Game One when I need a muc/more competitive listening, I'm covered.

I've owned the X7 for years and it hasn't let me down, aside from random pops/crackles through usb on my pc. Not sure if it's the X7 here or my ancient laptop that has had quite a few issues in it's life, like a dead hdmi out, mic/headphone jack no longer working, etc.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Hey, @Yethal (or anyone else who knows the answer): My brand new X7 is playing very, very quietly and only out of the left channel. This is the same behavior that I experienced when I had to send mine in for repair last year. Is there anything I can do to troubleshoot this before I return the unit?
> 
> I've tried multiple inputs, multiple headphones, multiple devices and both headphone jacks to be thorough.


Switch opamps from right to left and see if the problem moves.


----------



## Dozdoz (Dec 15, 2017)

EsaT said:


> Well, if your computer gives out analog sound you already have DAC in there...
> With own experience of mechanical design of HD59x would suggest staying away from them, especially when there's mechanically lot better designed headphones for cheaper price.
> As apparently HD599 moves away from neutral bass of HD595/8 it would be in competitive sense (picking up foot step sounds and such) farther from level of AKG K702.
> While in fun sound direction DT990 again offers very fan bass impact with still good soundstage and details... In design made to last.
> ...



Hello everyone, first thank you for your reply.

I don't have headphone yet, actually I got an Asus Strix Pro ( shaame ! ^^ ) and one side is broken. So I was looking at a new headset like Senn Game One or Arctis 5 with Senn GSX 1200 for example to connect all thoose things and have a good emulated 7.1 and better sound quality. And after several searches I found that it will be better to have good headphone + DAC+Amp and if it's possible, connect my 2.1 speaker ( But no more 7.1 )

IS DT990 or AKG K702/K712 + GSX 1200 Is a good combo ? Review says 7.1 is good with GSX 1200 so .. Difference between K702 and K712 is K712 provide more bass ?
Didi HD599 will suffer from the same problem of old HD59X with "crackling" ? If not is it a good option too ?

 I've a desktop but the usb connection is good because I sometimes use a laptop yes.


----------



## EsaT

Dozdoz said:


> I don't have headphone yet, actually I got an Asus Strix Pro ( shaame ! ^^ ) and one side is broken. So I was looking at a new headset like Senn Game One or Arctis 5 with Senn GSX 1200 for example to connect all thoose things and have a good emulated 7.1 and better sound quality. And after several searches I found that it will be better to have good headphone + DAC+Amp and if it's possible, connect my 2.1 speaker ( But no more 7.1 )
> 
> IS DT990 or AKG K702/K712 + GSX 1200 Is a good combo ? Review says 7.1 is good with GSX 1200 so .. Difference between K702 and K712 is K712 provide more bass ?
> Didi HD599 will suffer from the same problem of old HD59X with "crackling" ? If not is it a good option too ?
> ...


Looking how bad frequency response those Anu... Asus gaming garbages have that silence might sound better...
Only noise they produce is some lower mids and treble spike:
https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/60...gher-quality-testresults---frequency-response
In comparison already K702 would sound having good bass and DT990 and K712 would be like having some subwoofer.

I have here now K712 and DT990 along with couple years old second hand K702 (+ "retired" after 2½ years tape keeping pieces from falling HD595) so I'll try to do more thorough comparison of their binaural sound performance in Sunday. (work during day and sauna at evening tomorrow)
No touching of gaming junks after that lineup... or likely much any closed headphones.

Sennheiser GSX is one of those shameless "you can sell anything at high price as gaming product" trinkets.
(CEOs and marketroids don't know the meaning of word shame when they see chance to cheat money from people)
While binaural simulation is good GSX just isn't good as DAC and neither it is any proper headphone amplifier:
It uses Conexant's cheap ass DAC/output buffer chip meant for cheap battery always empty (toy)phones.
~40€ Audigy Fx has literally better D/A converter and at least equally beefy output.
SB Z has class higher DAC from Audigy Fx and Sound BlasterX AE-5 would be like top level Mercedes-Benz to some Trabant/Wartburg of GSX to use car analogy.
So for its high end/luxury price GSX can only be considered as overal bad product.

Unfortunately ear cup attachment of post-Y2K HD5xx Sennheisers is mechanically at about same level with weak design: 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack.534963/page-3#post-7328331
https://bbs.io-tech.fi/threads/laadukkaat-kuulokkeet.1154/page-24#post-2029927
That design would pretty much require metal or some aviation/space grade composite parts to be durable the way it focuses stresses.

As for using same device both with desktop and laptop (lot cheaper than GSX) Sound BlasterX G5 has way superior components and connectivity including line out for speakers.
Though if you use laptop away from home these headphones aren't exactly good for portability...


----------



## ljoshl91 (Dec 16, 2017)

Hi all,

It's almost 4am, I've been reading this thread for almost 4 hours, and I think I've come to a basic understanding now. I'm on a moderate budget of around £150 but may be able to go 180-200 if really required. I used to own Steelseries V2 + Astro mixamp 2011 version years ago, but have just gotten back into competitive gaming.

I've ordered the DT990 Pro 250 Ohm, but I'm unsure of exactly what I need, or can 'get away with', to provide a good level of audio to a PS4 for competitive COD:

- Astro Mixamp: Would the older version be sufficient? How much of a difference would the PRO TR make?

- Amp:1) How much of a difference would not having an amp have for gaming if I have the mixamp?
           2) Would this amp be sufficient: *SMSL Audio Sap-II PRO seems very cheap?
edit: would this even connect in tandum with a mixamp with external mic

- I ordered the FiiO E10k but canceled after realising no input so cannot do 7.1 through the mixamp - any suggestions for alternatives? can't find the e9ks anywhere online*

- Soundblaster 5: How much difference would this make to a mixamp, and would it provide a good level of audio with my headset for competitive gaming?

TLDR; Budget amp to power DT990 pro 250 ohm, is mixamp essential, would soundblaster 5 be firm alternative


----------



## themrmikemcd

Hey MLE, saw you posted a question on Rtings headphones review.  What do you think of their ratings scale?


----------



## IslandRyhno

I just purchased some AKG Q701s. How do I power them via xbox one?


----------



## Yethal

ljoshl91 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It's almost 4am, I've been reading this thread for almost 4 hours, and I think I've come to a basic understanding now. I'm on a moderate budget of around £150 but may be able to go 180-200 if really required. I used to own Steelseries V2 + Astro mixamp 2011 version years ago, but have just gotten back into competitive gaming.
> 
> ...


Mixamps are like wine, the older, the better. Stay with the 2011 version. The harder your headphones are to drive the bigger the difference an amp would make. If you're looking for a cheap amp, check out Schiit Magni 3.


----------



## Dozdoz

Hello everyone, so the combo AKG712 Pro + Sound BlasterX G5 seems pretty good to fit in my budget ( 350€ ) for gaming, USB facilities, 7.1, and good quality to listen music. Any better idea ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

IslandRyhno said:


> I just purchased some AKG Q701s. How do I power them via xbox one?


Do you have a budget?
Do you want headphone surround sound (Astro Mix-amp) or is gaming in stereo audio ok?


----------



## EsaT

With spare time issues, but mostly because of Beyerdynamic's black ear pad availability problem/shop getting no before hand information this comparison I promised has been moving forward few weeks.
You would think that in this "information society" era makers could actually before hand tell what items delivery for shop contains and what not...
Would have gotten delivery two weeks earlier by taking straigth away standard silver ear pads.

So contestants are couple years old (serial 123914) second hand AKG K702 , K712 (I had in that order) and guess about five years old Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium...
Which finally got overdue ear pad change, along with some cleaning of driver's diaphragm from pieces of hair.
(+ some comparison to retired after 2½ years of use, tape keeping pieces from falling Sennheiser HD595)

DT990 is Beyerdynamic's three decades old take on open big soundstage can with fun sound, giving for open can very good bass impact.

K702 is detachable cable version of AKG's fair decade old K701 aimed at highly analytical sound with big soundstage and neutral bass.

K712 is few years old AKG's model aimed at DT990 like more "balanced"/fun sound adding above neutral punching bass to K700 line.



*AKG K702: *(/K701)
Hands down the winner in competitiveness.
Neutral bass and highly analytical sound combined to soundstage makes it clearly the best of three for distinguishing foot steps, gunshots and such.
Can well believe it's among the absolutely best cans for competitive gaming.
(while HD595 was very good in comparison it felt lacking equal soundstage depth)
Donwside is some serious compromising in "fun factor":
Bass is there and goes respectably low if you listen for it, but it always takes back seat to details and just doesn't punch much.
(still little better than in in HD595)
And I guess Audio-Technica ATH-AD700(x) would make K701/702 sound fun...

With their current pricing (at least in EU) these are pretty much steal, if maximum level of competitiveness is needed.

*AKG K712:*
Soundstage feels overall very similar to K702 with huge size and lots of separation.
Difference feels to come mostly from that above neutral bass:
It simply makes foot steps and such less obvious when ever there are lower frequency sounds present.
That some compromising in competitiveness gives lot more fun factor compared to K702.
Instead of being "shy"/taking back seat bass is overall well present giving good immersion and punch.

Overall very well balanced with good amount of fun/immersion, without giving up that much from competitiviness.
Also at least in EU price has come down closer to DT990 Premium.

*Beyerdynamic DT990:*
Soundstage is big with good sense of depth, but not up to AKG level. (about there with HD595)
Though curiously some occasional sound felt little easier to distinguish than with K712.
Compared to DT990 K712 has some dip around 1½ and 3 kHz, so maybe with more "intimacy" in soundstage that's what caused it.
So while not overal up to K712 I guess it would be accurate to describe DT990 having some different style competitiviness.
Also fun/immersion is definitely DT990's strength.
While K712's bass should reach lower, DT990 feels having little more bass impact and immersion.
K712 having more mids no doubt causes that, likely along with soundstage difference.

Another well balanced can for mixed gaming with price in between K702 and K712.
As bonus design is very easy to DIY mod to headset if you have separate mic from gaming garbage headset or find one cheaply from web. 
For those with limited budget Pro-version gives lots of "bang per buck", at the expense of possibly inconvenience from differences 


Comfort:​Overall all three are very good fit for hours of continuous use.
AKG's have more firmer feeling pads and at first clearly gave definitely more feel of wearing them, but now with more time using them don't notice them that much.
Though DT990 Premium with it's very soft ear pads feels like having still little edge.

Also Beyer's head band with good manual adjusting is likely better for more peculiar head shapes and sizes.
AKG's head band is "automatically" adjusting, also relying on pressure for keeping ear cups positioned.
Also with time that elastic string in automatic adjustment might tire, it's definitely looser on second hand K702 than my new K712.
(though that might be also from original user having had lot bigger head)

DT990 Pro version has less decorated look and instead of straight cable has coiled cable, which can cause inconvenience if headphone connector isn't near.
(not that 3m cable is free of inconvenience needing careful managing)
Coiled cable might also cause some noise from rubbing to clothes.
At least trying coiled cable of AKGs causes some amount of it. (though also straight cable seems to give tiny bit of it unlike in DT990)
Also it has some more clamping force so in longer listening its comfort isn't as great. Then again with steel head band it shouldn't mind if you bend it little.


----------



## IslandRyhno

PurpleAngel said:


> Do you have a budget?
> Do you want headphone surround sound (Astro Mix-amp) or is gaming in stereo audio ok?


Stereo audio is OK, I'd like to stay as budget friendly as possible but say around 200 or so.


----------



## EsaT

Dozdoz said:


> Hello everyone, so the combo AKG712 Pro + Sound BlasterX G5 seems pretty good to fit in my budget ( 350€ ) for gaming, USB facilities, 7.1, and good quality to listen music. Any better idea ?


Unless wanting absolutely maximum competitiveness K712 is definitely very well balanced.
(besides thread's starting post check my previous post)

While internal AE-5 should use same software and recording directly from "What U Hear" should remove any analog recording variable there seems to be some difference between it and SBX G5:
Creative AE-5 Sound Demo VS Others
Tomb Raider Surround Sound
Though having those other settings than binaural simulation enabled isn't good thing for comparison.
Of course if USB connectivity (for laptop) or changing between PCs is needed choise is done by that.





IslandRyhno said:


> Stereo audio is OK, I'd like to stay as budget friendly as possible but say around 200 or so.


Doesn't Xbone now have that Windows Sonic for Headphones?
That should be better than "in left ear - in center of head - in right ear" stereo.




themrmikemcd said:


> Hey MLE, saw you posted a question on Rtings headphones review.  What do you think of their ratings scale?


Their gaming score sure seems to be based on anything but actual capabilities with binaural sound.


----------



## PurpleAngel

IslandRyhno said:


> Stereo audio is OK, I'd like to stay as budget friendly as possible but say around 200 or so.



A Hifimediy optical DAC ($59 + shipping $7?) should provide some nice audio quality.
A O2 (Objective 2) headphone amplifier should provide decent power.


----------



## illram (Dec 18, 2017)

I will answer my own question from earlier in the thread: the Audioquest Nighthawks are great for positional audio. A good compromise between fun (bass) and positioning (imaging+soundstage). Has a very holographic sound that makes some stuff truly sound out of your head. For instance, a specific thing some of you can try: the police sirens on Black Ops 3 in the Black Market. With an X7, it really sounded like the sirens were happening outside, all around me. Not in a muddied way but very specifically moving all around me in discernible ways my ears could track. Also these things are super comfortable, they have a very cool headband design I have not seen before.

I really hope to do a more in depth review of the HP's I've amassed in the past two years, my goal is to basically compile a list of specific things in popular games and compare how all the HP's I own handle them. That way people reading it, if they have the games I have, can go listen and see how their HP's compare. I need to start taking notes as I listen more often thoguh... I'm keeping a little excel spreadsheet of stuff I notice after a gaming session but I don't update it enough. Need to be old fashioned and just keep a little notepad next to me!


----------



## Tic-Tac

Any wireless option for PC use that you guys can recommend? I'm having a hard time finding one yet


----------



## themrmikemcd

EsaT said:


> Their gaming score sure seems to be based on anything but actual capabilities with binaural sound.



Their information is so scattered and inconsistent with other reviews. It's almost hard to really get a good idea on which ones are good or bad for gaming other than the gaming HEADSETS. I love their tv reviews but I feel like their headphone reviews are not a priority.


----------



## AxelCloris (Dec 18, 2017)

Tic-Tac said:


> Any wireless option for PC use that you guys can recommend? I'm having a hard time finding one yet


Sorry, the only headsets I've used with PC are the Logitech G930 and the H800. Not going to be much help.

Edit: wireless headsets.


----------



## DCB305 (Dec 18, 2017)

Hey guys,

Need help. I'm setting up a secondary PS4 and was looking to do an Astro Mix amp (TR) or maybe the Turtle Beach TAC (?), but I haven't seen much mentioned on them. I do remember that the 2011 Mix amp was the best as it produced the least amount of noise.

My questions basically are:

1. Are these newer offerings from Astro (TR) and Turtle Beach (TAC) any good?
2. Have the noise floor issues been addressed?
3. If they are good options is there a preference of one over the other?
4. Should I be looking for a 2011 Astro Mix Amp?

Those decoders are at the max I've set my budget at. I will be pairing it with the Sennheiser Game One (the open back set).

Thank you all!


----------



## Ted23

ljoshl91 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> It's almost 4am, I've been reading this thread for almost 4 hours, and I think I've come to a basic understanding now. I'm on a moderate budget of around £150 but may be able to go 180-200 if really required. I used to own Steelseries V2 + Astro mixamp 2011 version years ago, but have just gotten back into competitive gaming.
> 
> ...




I have these exact same headphones and am currently running a first edition turtle beach DSS in bypass mode (I activated Windows Sonic in settings). While the sound gets loud enough it is near its max and I think for some occasions I would like it to get louder. That is why I am also looking to see if there are any new amp options with optical in that would work through and xbox one.

Also as a side question I wouldn't need a dac correct? I think an amp only if I'm running it out of the xbox one optical port?


----------



## raband

Optical feeds a dac (to convert the digital optical signal to analogue) which then feed an amp (to amplify the analogue signal) to the headphones


----------



## Ted23

raband said:


> Optical feeds a dac (to convert the digital optical signal to analogue) which then feed an amp (to amplify the analogue signal) to the headphones



So I would need a amp/dac combo...was wondering if anyone has used this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XDLCHY7/

seems like an inexpensive combo but I wonder if it will drive my DT990s because they're at 250 ohms I was trying to use a calculator and it came out to 114dB at the 250mW they have at max. It seems like it will work but I am also unsure if it will work with windows sonic on.


----------



## raband

Ted23 said:


> So I would need a amp/dac combo...was wondering if anyone has used this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XDLCHY7/
> 
> seems like an inexpensive combo but I wonder if it will drive my DT990s because they're at 250 ohms I was trying to use a calculator and it came out to 114dB at the 250mW they have at max. It seems like it will work but I am also unsure if it will work with windows sonic on.




From the reviews:

_This item does NOT work with Netflix, YouTube, or gaming consoles so....not sure what is left for it to be compatible with...a VCR maybe!?_


----------



## PurpleAngel

DCB305 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Need help. I'm setting up a secondary PS4 and was looking to do an Astro Mix amp (TR) or maybe the Turtle Beach TAC (?), but I haven't seen much mentioned on them. I do remember that the 2011 Mix amp was the best as it produced the least amount of noise.
> My questions basically are:
> ...



Yea, I say to buy a used Astro mix-amp (2011?).
Should decently drive the Game One.


----------



## samvafaei

EsaT said:


> Their gaming score sure seems to be based on anything but actual capabilities with binaural sound.



It seems that by binaural capabalities you are referring to what we call "imaging" in our reviews. We score Imaging based on phase response and driver matching. However, we believe there's room for improvement in our Imaging calculations and we should go live with the update within a month or so.

Let me know if I didn't address your concern or you have other suggestions to improve our reviews.


----------



## samvafaei

themrmikemcd said:


> Their information is so scattered and inconsistent with other reviews. It's almost hard to really get a good idea on which ones are good or bad for gaming other than the gaming HEADSETS. I love their tv reviews but I feel like their headphone reviews are not a priority.



We agree with you that our headphone reviews aren't as mature as our TV reviews yet, since we started reviewing headphones more recently. But we are as serious about them and are constantly thinking of ways to improve our reviews.

We will be posting a "best gaming headphones" article soon with a full table, so hopefully that would help gathering the information on one page. Also, our Gaming rating is not 100% final at the moment, since we only started testing them recently. We will most likely update our Gaming scoreset before publishing the article, so if you have suggestions on how to improve that, this would be a good time!


----------



## themrmikemcd

I love the way the TV ratings are set up. And the headphone reviews have a good format too.  Some headphones on the list dont have gaming   information in the conclusions and I think that would be helpful to those of us who use regular headphones for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 20, 2017)

samvafaei said:


> It seems that by binaural capabalities you are referring to what we call "imaging" in our reviews. We score Imaging based on phase response and driver matching. However, we believe there's room for improvement in our Imaging calculations and we should go live with the update within a month or so.
> 
> Let me know if I didn't address your concern or you have other suggestions to improve our reviews.


Yo, we have an rtings rep here!

I have been the product of some of your weirdest questions on your TV reviews, (Vizio 2016 P series review about Clear Action) and even said something about the Game One review (first question).

I'm fanboying here. Just wanna say I absolute love rtings and check in nearly every day for new reviews. You guys are the BEST.

It's always nice to get purely objective measurements and all, which I use to compare to my mostly subjective style of reviewing.

I still don't agree on bass levels of the Game One though lol.  Then again, I can't argue with actual measurements.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yo, we have an rtings rep here!
> 
> I have been the product of some of your weirdest questions on your TV reviews, (Vizio 2016 P series review about Clear Action) and even said something about the Game One review (first question was me).
> 
> ...


So  I'm going to go out on a limb and say MLE likes Rtings.com. ;b That's why I asked what MLE thought about them. I respect his reviews and I knew if MLE  was good with their information  that they are a good place to  trust on reviews!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 20, 2017)

samvafaei said:


> It seems that by binaural capabalities you are referring to what we call "imaging" in our reviews. We score Imaging based on phase response and driver matching. However, we believe there's room for improvement in our Imaging calculations and we should go live with the update within a month or so.
> 
> Let me know if I didn't address your concern or you have other suggestions to improve our reviews.



While I would correlate imaging with good virtual surround capablities, the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'd be hard pressed to call (what I consider virtual surround prowess) binaural or imaging. I consider imaging what a headphone can do by default. How well it can paint a picture of sound sources like instruments in a room. My gauge for performance in a binaural or virtual surround setting is how well a headphone can differentiate front/rear sounds, in all manners of depth and width. In most cases, the most important thing is how well a headphone can pinpoint sounds in a flat circle with you/the listener standing in the middle. So if I say, how well can a headphone place an object that is supposed to be at 4 o' clock behind you, etc.

Problem here is that it goes farther than just headphones. Virtual surround dsp technologies are just as important. You can get the best headphone, and pair it with a poor dsp (say, Razer surround), and it will do a worse job than a cheap headphone with a good dsp (say... SBX Surround).

Imaging personally isn't all too important to me, as most things are limited to basic stereo and don't have embedded positional cues other than left/right, something in between. Any perception of depth is more or less brain trickery, IMHO, unless of course the recording was binarual to begin with (i.e. virtual barbershop). Virtual surround on the other hand, is actively trying to emulate surround speakers in a headphone, with varying levels of success.

I'm sure this is common knowledge by now, but just wanted to restate that imaging/binaural/virtual surround aren't the same. You can add soundstage to that mix, as soundstage is the size of the sound's 'field' per se. So a headphone with a large soundstage has an easier time with imaging, as well as virtual surround, as objects within that soundstage have more 'room'.


----------



## WilsonT90

Jeez, I've lurked this guide for years and wanted to say thank you. You're the reason I got into actual audio beyond gaming which initially lead me here.


----------



## themrmikemcd

WilsonT90 said:


> Jeez, I've lurked this guide for years and wanted to say thank you. You're the reason I got into actual audio beyond gaming which initially lead me here.


I only own headphones Mad Lust Envy has reviewed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

WilsonT90 said:


> Jeez, I've lurked this guide for years and wanted to say thank you. You're the reason I got into actual audio beyond gaming which initially lead me here.


That's really awesome. Who knew that something I wrote mainly to keep track of what I have used could turn into something useful for everyone else? Hahaha





themrmikemcd said:


> I only own headphones Mad Lust Envy has reviewed.



Man, you may wanna NOT do that in the future, considering I'm not actively listening to new stuff, and I'm far behind on what's current. Lol.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Haven't done  me wrong yet. I cant afford the $300+ headphones so I use your reviews for the more budget friendly recommendations that I realize are not going to sound like $300+ headphones, but will still be something worth the money and will be better than ear buds and gaming headsets.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Man, you may wanna NOT do that in the future, considering I'm not actively listening to new stuff, and I'm far behind on what's current. Lol.


There are several of us who want/have been trying to see that change.


----------



## Evshrug

EsaT said:


> HD595 taught me the expensive way to look for other things in design than fashionable look:
> Last millennium design HD590 with "old boring" matt black plastic and standard two sided ear cup attaching survived decade without really any signs of use.
> Shiny fashion plastics of HD595 started cracking in 2½ years precisely this way:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-hd-598-starting-to-crack.534963/page-3#post-7328331
> Easy to see from those pics that design creates and focuses stresses to that part.



Wow, that guy from 2011 has REALLY broken c-clamps. That piece can be replaced though. Did you try using the Finnish customer service contact center?
https://fi-fi.sennheiser.com/service-support

If you’re still having trouble getting in contact with the repair center, PM me and I will try to reach out to my contacts. Extreme plastic breakage like that is NOT common.




AxelCloris said:


> There are several of us who want/have been trying to see that change.



Baby steps... at least he’s back in on Head-Fi!


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> Baby steps... at least he’s back in on Head-Fi!


You should follow his example. We missed you man!


----------



## raband

Not too late - 

MLE youtube channel

Zeos can do it and make a career out of it

Am sure if MLE would consider coming back into doing decent, proper/random reviews he'd be able to get enough pocket money, patreon subs and followers that it'd at least be self sufficient.

Nameless and MLE (no offence to any others) are the 2 threads that bought me to, and keep me coming back here

AND had the most influence on the headphone's and hardware I've bought

Am sure I'm not alone - am tipping close to 90% of the people here are in the same boat.

Please - start a channel, or a patreon or something that $1 a month can show our appreciation.

Don't care if it's a 1 min vid of you playing Mario - would subscribe and donate.


----------



## themrmikemcd

This is the only thread I come to on this site. It is because of MLE. His in-depth information on gaming use has been a valuable tool for me. I would subscribe to a MLE youtube headphones review channel!


----------



## raband

Yep

If he did a top to bottom of the 1st page of the thread

1 vid a week on random crap, but a week/each/one headphone - even if it's just "can't remember this one", 20 second comment

Would sub and donate to patreon

Please do it MLE - you've got about a years worth of content you can do before you "have" to do new reviews - make any new ones behind the sub "paywall" - a week early or something?

Am in a different country, so any time I've tried to send a new set to try (couple of years ago) it was too hard.

1 Vote here for a MLE patreon/youtube random thing for ongoing support


----------



## Yethal (Dec 22, 2017)

raband said:


> Yep
> 
> If he did a top to bottom of the 1st page of the thread
> 
> ...


Lol I'd watch the heck out of that channel


----------



## shuto77

Amazon just talked me into returning my second X7 since they couldn't help me get it working.

What's the go-to recommendation for PS4 gamers if the X7 is off the table? 

I also have an ifi idsd Black Label, which is great gor music, but not so much for gaming.


----------



## themrmikemcd

I think the problem with that would be that he doesn't have all these headphones anymore to do a video, he would probbably have to start with new ones so he  can show them on camera. But if he ever did do a youtube i would donate to a Peteron for him.


----------



## Yethal (Dec 22, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> Amazon just talked me into returning my second X7 since they couldn't help me get it working.
> 
> What's the go-to recommendation for PS4 gamers if the X7 is off the table?
> 
> I also have an ifi idsd Black Label, which is great gor music, but not so much for gaming.


One pretty convenient thing about iDSD BL is that the 3.5mm analog input is on the front so if you stack it together with a mixamp or a recon it'll look a lot cleaner. Personally I'd go for an older Mixamp as Recons happen to just mysteriously die on their own.


----------



## shuto77

Yethal said:


> One pretty convenient thing about X7 is that the 3.5mm analog input is on the front so if you stack it together with a mixamp or a recon it'll look a lot cleaner. Personally I'd go for an older Mixamp as Recons happen to just mysteriously die on their own.



My concern is that I won't be happy with the Mixamp's audio quality after dabbling with nicer gear.

Between tge Mixamp, Recon and Turtle Beach DSS, which responds the best to double amping?


----------



## Yethal (Dec 22, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> The problem with the Mixamp i
> 
> 
> My concern is that I won't be happy with the Mixamp's audio quality after dabbling with nicer gear.
> ...


Haven't tried the DSS myself (those are surprisingly hard to find in Europe) but I did own two Mixamps (2009 and 2013 models) and a Recon and Recon is the cleanest of them all, probably due to the fact that that volume control is digital so there are no crappy resistors in the signal path as in the Mixamp. I'd pick the Mixamp over the Recon though so I wouldn't have to deal with Creative's terrible drivers ever again.
Also, Recon has separate mic and headphone jacks so you won't have to use a splitter with a shared ground between the microphone and headphones. My Mixamp used to hiss a bit when double amped but only when the microphone was connected to it.


----------



## shuto77

Yethal said:


> Haven't tried the DSS myself (those are surprisingly hard to find in Europe) but I did own two Mixamps (2009 and 2013 models) and a Recon and Recon is the cleanest of them all, probably due to the fact that that volume control is digital so there are no crappy resistors in the signal path as in the Mixamp. I'd pick the Mixamp over the Recon though so I wouldn't have to deal with Creative's terrible drivers ever again.



Which Mixamp is it? The 2011 version? This is super annoying. I can't believe no one has made a better headphone surround option for consoles by now.


----------



## illram

My hunch is the licensing fees are too expensive. You need to license Dolby Digital, and if you want chat on Xbox you need to pay the MS tax they put on anyone who makes a USB audio device, and then you need to also have the HRTF software or license it from someone (e.g. Dolby again.) I think this is why there are a fair number of decent and affordable PC surround devices/soundcards but very few console ones.


----------



## Yethal

shuto77 said:


> Which Mixamp is it? The 2011 version? This is super annoying. I can't believe no one has made a better headphone surround option for consoles by now.


Skip over the 2009 version as it doesn't support USB audio (so chat support on PS4 is super annyoing with that device). 2011 version added USB chat support and this was probably the best version overall. Notice two buttons (newer models have three) and flat potentiometers.


----------



## Evshrug

shuto77 said:


> Between tge Mixamp, Recon and Turtle Beach DSS, which responds the best to double amping?



Of those, the DSS or DSS2 (still have the latter, first was bundled with a headphone sale to sweeten the deal) will easily be the least noisy and best with double amping. The only favor it does for chat, though, is the USB worked for me with my USB Blue microphone (no drivers). You will notice that the DAC is a bit of a step down.


----------



## shuto77

Evshrug said:


> Of those, the DSS or DSS2 (still have the latter, first was bundled with a headphone sale to sweeten the deal) will easily be the least noisy and best with double amping. The only favor it does for chat, though, is the USB worked for me with my USB Blue microphone (no drivers). You will notice that the DAC is a bit of a step down.



Hey, man, how's it going?

I find all of these options terrible. 

I appreciate everyone trying to help, however. I'm inclined to just use my Idsd Black Label for now.


----------



## Evshrug

Yethal said:


> You should follow his example. We missed you man!



I’m on head-fi about 5 Times a week, sometimes more in smaller bites! I just, you know, follow a ton of different threads now.


----------



## Evshrug (Dec 22, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> Hey, man, how's it going?
> 
> I find all of these options terrible.
> 
> I appreciate everyone trying to help, however. I'm inclined to just use my Idsd Black Label for now.



I can understand! Without my X7, it’s hard to go back while waiting for the Smyth Realizer. I didn’t think I’d still be waiting on that, but here we are. I dug up my DSS2 for a while, but my desk is littered in so much stuff and sometimes I don’t hook it back up. I turned on my PS4 one day, and the SB G5 wouldn’t power on, haven’t had time to test it on PC yet.

I have been playing with stereo for awhile using my Mojo, but... it still feels like I’ve got blinders over one of my senses, harder to play PvP stuff.

Surround sure works in Farpoint! Had a blast in PVP there, unlocked a sweet sniper rifle that is more like a DMR with 10 shots instead of 3.


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> I’m on head-fi about 5 Times a week, sometimes more in smaller bites! I just, you know, follow a ton of different threads now.


Yeah but you don't hang out here as much.


----------



## Evshrug

Maybe I’ll make a point of saying something every Friday, or something, haha.

How are you liking your Shanling M1? Cool piece of (non gaming) kit! I bought a FiiO X7 so I could play around with amp modules and not need to connect my Mojo on the go, but that M1 really gives a lot of options for the price. Hidden gem


----------



## Yethal

The HIbyLink interface was the missing piece that allows on-the-go audiophiles to ascend to godhood. Seriously, being able to remotely control the DAP is such a good idea that I'm surprised nobody came up with that earlier.


----------



## Evshrug

Yethal said:


> Seriously, being able to remotely control the DAP is such a good idea that I'm surprised nobody came up with that earlier.


Astell & Kern did, but I only recently found out they have that. But yeah, steals some of the thunder from the Chord Poly, doesn’t it?

I did try using my Creative Bluetooth dongle to wirelessly send PS4 Audio to the Shanling M1. It works! But there’s a bit of lag. Probably would just use with movies where the system lags the video on purpose to match the audio.


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> Astell & Kern did, but I only recently found out they have that. But yeah, steals some of the thunder from the Chord Poly, doesn’t it?
> 
> I did try using my Creative Bluetooth dongle to wirelessly send PS4 Audio to the Shanling M1. It works! But there’s a bit of lag. Probably would just use with movies where the system lags the video on purpose to match the audio.


Chord really pulled an Apple with the Poly. Not only is it compatible with Mojo only, it is not capable of standalone operation. And it costs $600. And it causes bigger power draw as it uses Wi-Fi to transmit control data instead of Bluetooth Low-Energy. Yeah, it wasn't Chord's best product.
Didn't know about AK players either, I wonder how well that works.


----------



## shuto77

Yethal said:


> Skip over the 2009 version as it doesn't support USB audio (so chat support on PS4 is super annyoing with that device). 2011 version added USB chat support and this was probably the best version overall. Notice two buttons (newer models have three) and flat potentiometers.



@Evshrug

Sorry to highjack the thread today.

I have a USB microphone that I connect directly to the PS4, so the chat functionality is less important for me.

With that said, is the Mixamp 2011 still the best version for me? That one is harder to find (in good condition) than the 2013.


----------



## Evshrug (Dec 22, 2017)

shuto77 said:


> @Evshrug
> 
> I have a USB microphone that I connect directly to the PS4, so the chat functionality is less important for me.
> 
> With that said, is the Mixamp 2011 still the best version for me? That one is harder to find (in good condition) than the 2013.



I mean... I’ve been saying for years now, the main benefit of the Mixamp, compared to other surround processors, is the hands-on chat mixing dial. And you just said that’s the least important aspect to you. The thing the DSS and DSS2 do Best from my first-hand experience (better than the the TAC according to reviews, not my first hand experience with the TAC) is sound quality from the amp and DAC, at a lower cost than the X7. The X7 is still better, but the software can be finnicky sometimes.

I liked my DSS and it’s on my recommend list, and I caught the DSS2 on a CRAZY good clearance price from Newegg, also recommend that. Cirrus Logic’s proprietary DSP in the DSS2 is as good as DH, and does a great job with positional audio.


----------



## shuto77

Evshrug said:


> I mean... I’ve been saying for years now, the main benefit of the Mixamp, compared to other surround processors, is the hands-on chat mixing dial. And you just said that’s the least important aspect to you. The thing the DSS and DSS2 do Best from my first-hand experience (better than the the TAC according to reviews, not my first hand experience with the TAC) is sound quality from the amp and DAC, at a lower cost than the X7. The X7 is still better, but the software can be finnicky sometimes.
> 
> I liked my DSS and it’s on my recommend list, and I caught the DSS2 on a CRAZY good clearance price from Newegg, also recommend that. Cirrus Logic’s proprietary DSP in the DSS2 is as good as DH, and does a great job with positional audio.



Thanks for the reply. 

I just picked up a Dss2 on the cheap from eBay. I'll probably double amp it with my Idsd Black Label and see how it works out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha, I DO have a youtube channel that is dusty, and asking for assisted suicide, lol.

But honestly, I'm hella camera shy. My brother has an ever growing Youtube channel based off some mobile game Summoner's War, and even has like thousands of subs now. I'm like, man, if only I had as much initiative as him.

If anything, I'd be willing to stream on PS4 again, and give you guys like a schedule or something when I do.

As for Patreon and all that, I honestly don't know how to go about doing stuff like that, and I wouldn't wanna take advantage of you guys in any shape or form.

I would obviously love to do things like this and earn a living off it instead of the non-life I currently have, but I'm kind of a coward in taking risks and stuff.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hahaha, I DO have a youtube channel that is dusty, and asking for assisted suicide, lol.
> 
> But honestly, I'm hella camera shy. My brother has an ever growing Youtube channel based off some mobile game Summoner's War, and even has like thousands of subs now. I'm like, man, if only I had as much initiative as him.
> 
> ...


Check out either @Hawaiibadboy's channel or ZeosPantera. Both don't actually show up in their own videos. Maybe making them like this would be more beneficial?


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I would obviously love to do things like this and earn a living off it instead of the non-life I currently have, but I'm kind of a coward in taking risks and stuff.



Do whatever you're comfy with 

Look at what patreon requires, chuck up a vid of the porta-pro's, no facetime needed, just voice and see if it gets any ground.

Hell, just read the old review you have on the 1st page and add a current comment or two.

Next week do the same with a current can you have on hand.

Week after read off an old favourite and add comments.

Worth a try, and may reignite some passion.

Am sure you'd get friendly help on here.


----------



## DCB305

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hahaha, I DO have a youtube channel that is dusty, and asking for assisted suicide, lol.
> 
> But honestly, I'm hella camera shy. My brother has an ever growing Youtube channel based off some mobile game Summoner's War, and even has like thousands of subs now. I'm like, man, if only I had as much initiative as him.
> 
> ...


MLE, you are so far ahead right now the risk’s are minimal. You have proof of concept, evident by this board that’s been going on for what 6+/- years, and a community of support to help in the early stages. This is a huge head start in any startup!

Remember one of the biggest obstacles to success is getting over our fear of failure! Nothing stifles success like never attempting to succeed! 

Don’t be deterred by the potential of failure, which imo is small in this case, but if anything fear never trying and then wondering about what if you had!

Either way thanks for stepping out and starting this thread. Its been very beneficial to many from the looks of it.

In the immortal words of Dr. Seuss “you have to be odd to be #1”

Good luck!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll definitely look into these things soon. You guys make me wanna do more by this thread and you guys.

Perhaps even learn to jump cut/edit videos hahaha. I'll have to ask my brother who's learned a little.


----------



## Paysen

A big big thank you to MLE and all the other people in this thread, you helped me so much.

I just wanted to know if anyone knows if the Sennheiser 599 are as competitive in gaming as the 598?

I would go for the DT990, but it is impossible to fit a boompro mic as the cable is non removeable. K702 would be my second choice, followed by the Sennheiser Game One headset. 

Right now, they all cost roughly the same, but the headphones need an adapter plus the BoomPro mic for 40€. I prefer not having two cables. 

I use them 95% for gaming (cs go) and the rest for music.


----------



## EsaT

Paysen said:


> I just wanted to know if anyone knows if the Sennheiser 599 are as competitive in gaming as the 598?
> 
> I would go for the DT990, but it is impossible to fit a boompro mic as the cable is non removeable. K702 would be my second choice, followed by the Sennheiser Game One headset.
> 
> ...


What I've read HD599 might have sound tweaked little more toward compact soundstage than predecessors...
Which would be bad for gaming performance.
Anyway while very good because of neutral bass HD595 simply couldn't challenge K702 in soundstage in comparison I did recently with AKG having clear step bigger soundstage and better depth/distance separation of sounds.
(even K712's fun bass doesn't seem to compromise soundstage size much any)

And there's Chinese fashion trinket level weak point including mechanical design of HD5xx I've myself experienced in HD595
So would definitely go for K702 instead of any HD5xx Sennheiser.
HD595's not enduring use was reason why I even got those second hand K702s just for neutral bass reference.


----------



## Yethal

EsaT said:


> What I've read HD599 might have sound tweaked little more toward compact soundstage than predecessors...
> Which would be bad for gaming performance.
> Anyway while very good because of neutral bass HD595 simply couldn't challenge K702 in soundstage in comparison I did recently with AKG having clear step bigger soundstage and better depth/distance separation of sounds.
> (even K712's fun bass doesn't seem to compromise soundstage size much any)
> ...


On the other hand though, it is much easier to convert Sennheiser 5XX series of headphones into headsets using KetDirect mic.


----------



## High Fidelity (Dec 26, 2017)

Astro Mixamp Pro + ModMic 5 Chat Issue

I have an Astro Mixamp Pro (2015 model) + ModMic 5, which I use with both Xbox One and PS4. As far as I can remember I have had an issue with people in party chat not being able to hear me loud enough. I primarily use chat on the Xbox One so I will refer to that. Recently it has gotten really bad. Not only is my voice not loud enough, but it cuts in and out. I also have an Astro Mixamp (2011 model) that I don't use because the optical port door broke, but I taped the optical cable to it and connected it to my Xbox One and the results were the same.

To test my ModMic 5 I connected it directly to my laptop's mic jack and recorded my voice using Audacity using both the uni and omin-directional mics. In both cases my voice sounded loud and clear. I then connected my Mixamp Pro to my laptop via usb and my ModMic to the Y-adapter that is connected to the Mixamp Pro and recorded my voice. The volume was much lower and my voice level wavered.

I've done some research on the Astro Mixamp + ModMic and a lot of people are experiencing this issue. People have said that it has something to do with the Mixamp's noise gate. I had a Mixamp when I played on the Xbox 360 and I don't recall experiencing this problem, so it's possible the Xbox One is to blame as well. The fact that the ModMic requires 5V to power may have something to do with it too.

So, I'm here, not necessarily to find a solution to fix the problem, because part of the problem is on Astro's end, but rather to see if something else will work. Will the V-MODA BoomPro work with the Mixamp Pro so that others can clearly hear me? Or will it be the same as the ModMIc? How many volts does it require to power? Another option, though considerably more expensive, is the Creative Sound Blaster X7. I considered this before I purchased the Mixamp Pro and Schiit Magna 2U, but decided against due to price and issues with it and the PS4 that I read about.


----------



## LB Felipe

For gaming, which is better, Shure SRH1540 or MrSpeakers AEON?


----------



## Paysen

Thank you for your help, I am looking for a k702 / k712 now


----------



## shuto77

LB Felipe said:


> For gaming, which is better, Shure SRH1540 or MrSpeakers AEON?



I didn't use the Aeon for gaming when I owned it, but I can say that it is supremely comfortable, which is important for gaming. It's definitely the most comfortable closed back headphone I've worn, and perhaps the comfortable regardless of ear cup type.


----------



## EsaT

Yethal said:


> On the other hand though, it is much easier to convert Sennheiser 5XX series of headphones into headsets using KetDirect mic.


That kind inline volume adjustment shouldn't be used except for small lowering of volume.
They work by adding resistance in series with headphone, which works exactly like increasing output impedance:
Changing frequency response of frequency varying impedance headphones (like those HD5xx Sennheisers) and lowering damping factor at some point starting to affect sound quality.
Hence would be better to not even have volume adjustment in there to avoid temptation to use it.

And having had literal cut/"break"away view to HD595's mechanical design can't recommend Sennheiser HD5xx to others looking for long time investment...
Anyway HD595 was clear amount behind K702 in direct comparison with smaller soundstage size and depth/distance separation.
So for the money might as well get that best level soundstage.


----------



## Yethal

EsaT said:


> That kind inline volume adjustment shouldn't be used except for small lowering of volume.
> They work by adding resistance in series with headphone, which works exactly like increasing output impedance:
> Changing frequency response of frequency varying impedance headphones (like those HD5xx Sennheisers) and lowering damping factor at some point starting to affect sound quality.
> Hence would be better to not even have volume adjustment in there to avoid temptation to use it.
> ...


Can't really comment on the effect of the inline volume control on the sound quality as I haven't used this particular microphone myself, but I used to use HD598 paired with a ModMic as my main gaming rig and inconvenience of the ModMic is one of the reasons I don't use either of those devices anymore and why I recommend going for the more convenient option which the KetDirect microphone most certainly is.
With AKG headphones you don't really have that convenience. You can either spend $70 on ModMic and run two cables from the headphones to the amp or use the Mimic Cables adapter and plug the V-Moda BoomPro and have shared ground between headphones and mic.


----------



## Paysen (Dec 27, 2017)

Yethal said:


> Can't really comment on the effect of the inline volume control on the sound quality as I haven't used this particular microphone myself, but I used to use HD598 paired with a ModMic as my main gaming rig and inconvenience of the ModMic is one of the reasons I don't use either of those devices anymore and why I recommend going for the more convenient option which the KetDirect microphone most certainly is.
> With AKG headphones you don't really have that convenience. You can either spend $70 on ModMic and run two cables from the headphones to the amp or use the Mimic Cables adapter and plug the V-Moda BoomPro and have shared ground between headphones and mic.



Does the shared ground have a negative impact?

Why do they **** up such easy things though? Why not a simple 3,5mm jack? Why do the Beyerdynamic have non-removeable cables? I could see myself buying a dt880, but having two seperate cables sucks big time. I had two cables for several years now and I can't stand it anymore.

Same for the Audio Technica, which is a great headphone for gaming. But the non-removeable cables though... I know that it's not a problem for everybody but the majority would be happy with a one-cable-solution I guess.


----------



## abuch47

I think the v moda is a $10 better option over the ketdirect. has all the same features but is more durable and the 45 degree connections are more ergonomic


----------



## Yethal

abuch47 said:


> I think the v moda is a $10 better option over the ketdirect. has all the same features but is more durable and the 45 degree connections are more ergonomic


It's 3.5mm plug only whereas the ketdirect has both 3.5mm and 2.5mm version


----------



## Yethal

Paysen said:


> Does the shared ground have a negative impact?
> 
> Why do they **** up such easy things though? Why not a simple 3,5mm jack? Why do the Beyerdynamic have non-removeable cables? I could see myself buying a dt880, but having two seperate cables sucks big time. I had two cables for several years now and I can't stand it anymore.
> 
> Same for the Audio Technica, which is a great headphone for gaming. But the non-removeable cables though... I know that it's not a problem for everybody but the majority would be happy with a one-cable-solution I guess.



Shared ground only has a negative impact if the headphone plug and the microphone plug are connected to different devices or to a device which internally has separate grounding for headphones and mic (such as the X7). It makes no difference for devices which internally use the same ground for headphones and mic(such as the mixamp)


----------



## AciiD

I have a question about connecting everything, I am using the dss with the ad500x and when i connect the usb for power it doens't register my microphone 
On ps4 if that helps
also here's how it's connnected currently: optical cable in, usb in for power,  y splitter out with heaphone and modmic connected.


----------



## Yethal

AciiD said:


> I have a question about connecting everything, I am using the dss with the ad500x and when i connect the usb for power it doens't register my microphone
> On ps4 if that helps
> also here's how it's connnected currently: optical cable in, usb in for power,  y splitter out with heaphone and modmic connected.


Dss doesn't have an analog in. There are diagrams on the first page of this thread that will help you connect everything properly.


----------



## Paysen (Dec 28, 2017)

Yethal said:


> Shared ground only has a negative impact if the headphone plug and the microphone plug are connected to different devices or to a device which internally has separate grounding for headphones and mic (such as the X7). It makes no difference for devices which internally use the same ground for headphones and mic(such as the mixamp)



Thank you guys. I just ordered a k712. No store close to me had it, but they did have sennheiser and beyerdynamic. Beyerdynamic was a bit too v shaped (990) and the sennheiser was alright, but the akg might be even better. We will see once it arrives


----------



## mwhals

I have a full stereo rack near the xbox one and PS4. The audio components for sound output is a Marantz AV7703 and an Anthem amplifier to Monitor Audio speakers. I do not use microphones for gaming and can add it later if i decide. I am looking at getting a long 1/4" cable to run between the AV7703 headphone out and the couch. Would this work well for a headphone setup? The xbox and PS4 go to the AV7703 with HDMI cables. For a dedicated headphone I am looking at the HD598 or AKG 702/1.


----------



## king344

So which closed headphone + amp/dac combo for 200€ / £180 Europe shop only, sound accuracy is a must, not actually into big bass and listen levels at 60-80% mostly 60, if they work good with old rock music that's a plus.


----------



## High Fidelity

High Fidelity said:


> Astro Mixamp Pro + ModMic 5 Chat Issue
> 
> I have an Astro Mixamp Pro (2015 model) + ModMic 5, which I use with both Xbox One and PS4. As far as I can remember I have had an issue with people in party chat not being able to hear me loud enough. I primarily use chat on the Xbox One so I will refer to that. Recently it has gotten really bad. Not only is my voice not loud enough, but it cuts in and out. I also have an Astro Mixamp (2011 model) that I don't use because the optical port door broke, but I taped the optical cable to it and connected it to my Xbox One and the results were the same.
> 
> ...



I found a solution. By removing the Mixamp from the equation as far as the ModMic is concerned other people can hear me clearly. 

I now plug the headphones alone into the Mixamp and the Y-adapter into my controller. The ModMic is plugged into the mic side of the Y-adapter and the chat cable into the headphone side of the Y-adapter. The other end of the chat cable is plugged into the Mixamp. 

I still get Dolby Digital Surround Sound and can hear other people, but now they can hear me fine.


----------



## DCB305 (Dec 30, 2017)

Hey guys. I’ve recently got a Soundblaster X7 and AKG K712’s and although overall gaming experience is improved it seems to be lacking in regards to competitive FPS play (lately Destiny 2 pvp). I’ve been looking around for settings to optimize positional cues and footsteps especially, but really haven’t found anything that does so withought completely killing all that is good about the sound.

Some of the things that I’ve found have helped are
- Adjusting cinematic to night mode
- increasing SBX

I’ve been tweaking the EQ to try and find my sweet spot, but haven’t had any luck either. I know a lot you guys are audiophiles and have likely already fleshed this out and with me being at my wits end I’ve broken down to enlist your help!

Does anyone have EQ settings or recommendations for sound whoring withought making the game sound tin canny and congested?

I’m coming from an Astro MixAmp Pro TR paired with Sennheiser Game Ones and right now they seem to be the better setup for this. Which leads me to believe I’m doing something wrong, but I don’t know what?

I’ve got the proper settings on the PS4, bitstream Dolby, and the X7 has the Dolby light on, so I am getting SS.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Edit: connections and settings

Connections

- Optical out from PS4 to X7
- Creative Bluetooth W2 in PS4 USB port (chat audio works fine btw)

PlayStation Settings & Connections

Sound and screen > Audio output settings >
- Primary output port : Digital Out (Optical)
- Audio Format: Bitstream (Dolby)

Devices > Audio Devices
- Input Device: USB Headset (Creative Bluetooth Audio W2)
- Output Device: TV or AV Amplifier, although there is an option for USB Headset (Creative Bluetooth Audio W2)...should I be using this? When I switch to it (USB Headset) it does make available the following setting which otherwise is not available: Output to Headphones along with these options All Audio or Chat Audio.

Sound Blaster X7 settings see attached...Scout mode is off


----------



## Yethal

DCB305 said:


> Hey guys. I’ve recently got a Soundblaster X7 and AKG K712’s and although overall gaming experience is improved it seems to be lacking in regards to competitive FPS play (lately Destiny 2 pvp). I’ve been looking around for settings to optimize positional cues and footsteps especially, but really haven’t found anything that does so withought completely killing all that is good about the sound.
> 
> Some of the things that I’ve found have helped are
> - Adjusting cinematic to night mode
> ...


100% SBX, turn off all other enhancements, turn off Direct Mode. You can EQ the bass out to make footsteps easier to hear but that's pretty much it.


----------



## mwhals (Dec 30, 2017)

For single play console gaming with Xbox and PS4, what headphones are now recommended for immersion? I like Skyrim, sports and FPS games. I am thinking the K712 Pro, HD 598 or DH990.

I cannot find the X2. I think the K712 Pro may be the right choice.

My consoles go to a Marantz AV7703 by HDMI cables and the Marantz headphone out does Dolby Headphones.


----------



## DCB305 (Dec 30, 2017)

Yethal said:


> 100% SBX, turn off all other enhancements, turn off Direct Mode. You can EQ the bass out to make footsteps easier to hear but that's pretty much it.



Thanks for the response...i’ve Edited the post with connections and settings to help trouble shoot.

Thanks again


----------



## EsaT

mwhals said:


> For single play console gaming with Xbox and PS4, what headphones are now recommended for immersion? I like Skyrim, sports and FPS games. I am thinking the K712 Pro, HD 598 or DH990.
> 
> I cannot find the X2. I think the K712 Pro may be the right choice.
> 
> My consoles go to a Marantz AV7703 by HDMI cables and the Marantz headphone out does Dolby Headphones.


Unfortunately Sennheiser's mechanical design isn't at level of their overall very good (bass neutral) sound.
Myself pretty much wasted ~200€ for zero support for starting to crumple in 2½ years HD595. (designed weak point)
So would recommend skipping HD5xx Sennheisers until design of ear cup to head band attaching is changed..
Or material is switched to fit for requirements of design, aka steel or other such high strength material.
That's how mechanically bad that fashionable looking design is.

I guess you meant DT990 when even Google can't find anything for DH990...
Those Beyerdynamics (I got after HD595s) were designed 30 years ago in time when durability was one of design priorities.
Month ago in Finnish PC forum one person was looking if there are any wireless open headphones with same class sound quality as his 89 vintage DT990...
You could even replace most parts with just couple basic tools... in fact all if you count soldering iron into basic tools.
They sure deliver good balance between details and fun bass immersion.
Also head band design has very good adjustments, so with very soft velour pads comfort should be good for about any size head.

AKG's "automatic adjustment" is lot more challenged and partially relying on pressure to keep cups in their places.
If you have head shape which is wide at top and narrower below they might try to slip down.
For sound they have even bigger soundstage and more depth/distance separation.
Bass/fun factor is little below DT990, but for Dolby Headphone that should fit because it tends to be heavy on bass.

Recently did direct comparison including also K702.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...game-one-added.534479/page-2632#post-13920657


----------



## mwhals (Dec 30, 2017)

EsaT said:


> Unfortunately Sennheiser's mechanical design isn't at level of their overall very good (bass neutral) sound.
> Myself pretty much wasted ~200€ for zero support for starting to crumple in 2½ years HD595. (designed weak point)
> So would recommend skipping HD5xx Sennheisers until design of ear cup to head band attaching is changed..
> Or material is switched to fit for requirements of design, aka steel or other such high strength material.
> ...



Thanks! Which of the three have the least sound leakage if any of them?

Also, is the treble spike and recessed mids of the DT990 a problem gaming? The K712 Pro sounds more like it might be better.


----------



## cskippy

K712 Pro is more neutral with a small bump at 2kHz.  DT990 is pretty v shaped and might have too much treble for you.


----------



## Evshrug

EsaT said:


> Myself pretty much wasted ~200€ for zero support for starting to crumple in 2½ years HD595. (designed weak point)


Hey EsaT,
I reached out to you a while ago, because I’m sponsored by Sennheiser and wanted to see if I could get you some help. I’m offering a second time: please PM me so I can get some details and see if we can’t resolve this.


----------



## Evshrug (Dec 31, 2017)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll definitely look into these things soon. You guys make me wanna do more by this thread and you guys.
> 
> Perhaps even learn to jump cut/edit videos hahaha. I'll have to ask my brother who's learned a little.



Dude, plenty of people here who would help you get off the ground. Sure, there may be some hurdles to pass, but you’ll thank yourself for trying and taking the chance.

If you can’t talk to yourself, you’ve got familiar voices/regulars in this thread who could talk to you, and help get you started with friendly banter. A few days ahead of time, gotta say something like “Let’s try this Tuesday 10 PM eastern... we’ll soundwhore our way to victory!” That’s more of a premise for a show than Seinfeld, and people loved that!

@Yethal 
Sorry I didn’t say anything on Friday, I came down with the flu two days after Christmas. Near totally incapacitated me for a few days, but back at it today!


----------



## EsaT

mwhals said:


> Thanks! Which of the three have the least sound leakage if any of them?
> 
> Also, is the treble spike and recessed mids of the DT990 a problem gaming? The K712 Pro sounds more like it might be better.


There's very little meaningful difference in all open/"semi"-open headphones.
If environment is noisy you're going to hear those noises, with different cans just having different "nuance" in upper mids/treble.
And in quiet environment if there's someone close to you he's going to hear a bit, though at hearing safe volumes that sound simply won't carry far.
http://graphs.headphone.com/index.p...e=30&graphType=6&buttonSelection=Update+Graph

In binaural gaming (or movies) DT990's treble isn't really problem (also K712 has some bump in treble) and neither are mids.
In fact binaural sound seems to like little more distant and analyzing mids instead of more pushy ones.
This is what MLE says about so hyped HD650 in thread's start:
_The DT990 destroys the HD650 in both depth and width. So how's the air within the soundstage? Well, the problem with the HD650, is that it's a very full sounding headphone. Thick, warm tone tends to make the soundstage seems less airy and smaller...
Positioning and soundstage tend to go hand in hand, so if the soundstage isn't great, the positional cues will suffer. How did the HD650 fare positional-wise? Well, they were good. Not great, and could obviously be better, but they do their job._​Does that sound good for HD650's sound signature/type, if it takes heavy beating from DT990 in both soundstage and positioning?

K712 with even bigger soundstage wins DT990 in competitiveness.
Again DT990 has edge in bass immersion.
That would be pretty good summary between them.

If you have nearby some shop with DT880/990 and K700-serie AKGs that could tell how their comfort feels to you.
IMO DT990 has edge in comfort with less feel of pressure.


----------



## mwhals

EsaT said:


> There's very little meaningful difference in all open/"semi"-open headphones.
> If environment is noisy you're going to hear those noises, with different cans just having different "nuance" in upper mids/treble.
> And in quiet environment if there's someone close to you he's going to hear a bit, though at hearing safe volumes that sound simply won't carry far.
> http://graphs.headphone.com/index.php?graphID[0]=4163&graphID[1]=2141&graphID[2]=&graphID[3]=&scale=30&graphType=6&buttonSelection=Update+Graph
> ...



Thanks. No one near me carries either brand. It sounds like the DT990 is the right choice for me as a 100% gaming headphone on consoles. I only play single player games - no online. My headphone outs are Dolby headphone.


----------



## mwhals

I ended up ordering an AKG K712 Pro. Thanks for all the help @EsaT.


----------



## Diamondpact

Happy New Year! Hope everyone's well.

I have an interesting situation that came up about a week ago. My right side of the akg k7xx headphones stopped working and apparently it is a common issue, I opened it up and found the culprit. One of the wires(red one) broke off the solder. I was wondering since im already at it, can I upgrade the internal wires and just resolder em all with the upgraded wire? The current ones are so thin. I have some 8 awg thick insulated oxygen free copper speaker wire lying around, would that work? or is it too thick? Or do you guys recommend i use some silver wire or something? Also what would be the best for the soldering? 

In my field its bad to mix dissimilar metals such as copper and silver ect, which is why im concerned about which type and size of wire should I use as with what type of solder for speakers. I dont know how sensitive speakers are.

I also plan to cut the wires to exact lengths to ensure consistency. the wire that broke from the solder is already shorter than the rest .

Thanks in advanced.


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> @Yethal
> Sorry I didn’t say anything on Friday, I came down with the flu two days after Christmas. Near totally incapacitated me for a few days, but
> back at it today!


Don't stress it Evs, I know you're a busy man.


Diamondpact said:


> Happy New Year! Hope everyone's well.
> 
> I have an interesting situation that came up about a week ago. My right side of the akg k7xx headphones stopped working and apparently it is a common issue, I opened it up and found the culprit. One of the wires(red one) broke off the solder. I was wondering since im already at it, can I upgrade the internal wires and just resolder em all with the upgraded wire? The current ones are so thin. I have some 8 awg thick insulated oxygen free copper speaker wire lying around, would that work? or is it too thick? Or do you guys recommend i use some silver wire or something? Also what would be the best for the soldering?
> 
> ...


Definitely too thick, try 26AWG instead. And once you're at it, rewiring the entire headphone might be a good idea.


----------



## Diamondpact

Yethal said:


> Don't stress it Evs, I know you're a busy man.
> 
> Definitely too thick, try 26AWG instead. And once you're at it, rewiring the entire headphone might be a good idea.



cheers, I shall look for some on amazon. I decided to use silver solder as well. It should be fine. 

Thanks again.


----------



## Diamondpact

hmm, anyone recommend the best solder? i couldt find any decent one on amazon. it was all tin based ones :*(


----------



## mwhals

Just received my AKG K712 Pro headphones and they fit my head perfectly. They are so light. They also sound really good out of my Wells Audio Milo. I think I made the right decision for gaming headphones. They are even good at music, but they are not in the league of my main music headphones costing much more money.


----------



## Evshrug (Jan 3, 2018)

Lightweight is definitely a PRIME parameter when choosing a gaming headphone, which is why I barely used the wood-cup headphones I used to have. @bunnynamedfrank has them now, I think, and he also had the K712. He’s a funny dude... his upgrade path went speakers > AKG K712 > ZMF Vibro > Phillips SHP 9500 and sometimes his ZMF Ori, but these days he mostly games with his Sennheiser HD 600 and mod mic.

That Milo is a BEAST of an amp! Sometimes I game with @Hansotek, who is also a big proponent of the Milo!


----------



## Evshrug

Diamondpact said:


> hmm, anyone recommend the best solder? i couldt find any decent one on amazon. it was all tin based ones :*(


Tin based ones should be fine. My buddy who solders pretty frequently recommends this stuff: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068IJX6

There were specific parts that he would use lead-free solder with for Cavalli Audio, but apparently it’s a pain to work with.


----------



## Supa Boy

Guys, can you help or guide me? Taking into account the following characteristics = Bass quality, Sound stage, Imaging. It has to be extremely pleasing for long continuous use, non-fatiguing.

What is the best closed-back headphone for gaming = Yenona Adapter-Free DJ Headphones, ISK MDH9000 or Takstar Pro 82?

What is the best open-back or semi-open headphone for gaming = Superlux HD668B, Superlux HD681 EVO, Samson SR850 or Philips SHP9500S?

What is the best USB DAC + AMP headphone for gaming (To connect to the PS4's USB port) = SMSL M3 or Sabaj D2?


----------



## Yethal (Jan 4, 2018)

Supa Boy said:


> Guys, can you help or guide me? Taking into account the following characteristics = Bass quality, Sound stage, Imaging. It has to be extremely pleasing for long continuous use, non-fatiguing.
> 
> What is the best closed-back headphone for gaming = Yenona Adapter-Free DJ Headphones, ISK MDH9000 or Takstar Pro 82?
> 
> ...


Funny that you mention ISK MDH9000. I recently met a guy who claims these headphones are the T50RP of dynamics (amazing driver in a terrible enclosure) and that modding can elevate them to $500 bracket as far as SQ goes.


----------



## Mocro

Has anyone bought the Zowie Vital? Does it sound alright on XB1? I'm sick and tired of my Creative X7. I can never get the microphone working!


----------



## illram (Jan 5, 2018)

Just confirming something: for virtual headphone surround in GTA V, you need to set it to "surround" in game right? There is no option to use windows default (which is set to 5.1 for my Sound Blaster X7). I am used to games just defaulting to whatever Windows tells them, appears GTA does not do that.

In stereo I cannot really hear surround cues, in surround I think I can however. Just tried it tonight, walking around Franklin's house and trying to pinpoint the music. Just confirming this to make sure I am not crazy.

Also just once again want to throw out some more love for AQ Nighthawk imaging. Very very impressive positional accuracy with these puppies...


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Just confirming something: for virtual headphone surround in GTA V, you need to set it to "surround" in game right? There is no option to use windows default (which is set to 5.1 for my Sound Blaster X7). I am used to games just defaulting to whatever Windows tells them, appears GTA does not do that.
> 
> In stereo I cannot really hear surround cues, in surround I think I can however. Just tried it tonight, walking around Franklin's house and trying to pinpoint the music. Just confirming this to make sure I am not crazy.
> 
> Also just once again want to throw out some more love for AQ Nighthawk imaging. Very very impressive positional accuracy with these puppies...


Yes,  you always need to set the game to surround


----------



## gobstoppable

So what’s the current status? Akg k701, k702 or k712 for competitive gaming? The update to the k701/702 has me a bit confused. Are the 701’s still king? Are the 701 and 702 the same thing? I’m looking at them on amazon. If I were to go by styling then the k701’s look awesome, but I’m more concerned with performance.
K701
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000EBBJ6Y/

K702
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001RCD2DW/

K712
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00E4WXWBE/


----------



## Yethal

Mocro said:


> Has anyone bought the Zowie Vital? Does it sound alright on XB1? I'm sick and tired of my Creative X7. I can never get the microphone working!


Tbh this is more of a Microsoft's fault than Creative's. Microsoft demands that Xbox one compatible usb audio peripherals include a $35 authentication chip which is why most gaming peripherals aren't compatible with xbox. IIRC only Astro makes a product that can actually be used with an X1 over USB.


----------



## EsaT

gobstoppable said:


> So what’s the current status? Akg k701, k702 or k712 for competitive gaming? The update to the k701/702 has me a bit confused. Are the 701’s still king? Are the 701 and 702 the same thing?


K702 should be just detachable cable version of K701.
Recently got couple years old (smooth head band instead of bumpy) second hand K702 and it certainly beats HD595 Sennheiser in competitiveness with that god mode soundstage.
With K712 and Beyer's DT990 fitting pretty much where MLE's guide puts them against each others:
K712 has pretty much same soundstage as K702, fun bass just makes foot steps and such not so obvious/pronounced.

If you're ever going to need mic detachable cable would allow using V-Moda's BoomPro mic with this kind adapter for having single wire cabling instead of separate cables like with ModMic.


----------



## tmaxx123

Anyone have experience with the mayflower arc on PS4? I’ve been using the mixamp pro and have been happy, but the arc has me interested. Just seems like I’d be losing too many features if I switched to it. ( chat mixer, Dolby surround, mp3 input, etc)

Anyone tried the arc as a mixamp replacement that plays competitive multiplayer games?


----------



## Yethal

tmaxx123 said:


> Anyone have experience with the mayflower arc on PS4? I’ve been using the mixamp pro and have been happy, but the arc has me interested. Just seems like I’d be losing too many features if I switched to it. ( chat mixer, Dolby surround, mp3 input, etc)
> 
> Anyone tried the arc as a mixamp replacement that plays competitive multiplayer games?


Doesn't decode dolby digital so it's useless for console gaming


----------



## tmaxx123

Yethal said:


> Doesn't decode dolby digital so it's useless for console gaming



That’s what I Was thinking , thanks


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> Doesn't decode dolby digital so it's useless for console gaming



Would be pretty decent for Xbox (Atmos/Sonic) though??? If only they'd paid the fee for Xbox chat via USB.


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> Would be pretty decent for Xbox (Atmos/Sonic) though??? If only they'd paid the fee for Xbox chat via USB.


We'll never know.


----------



## Qupie

Hi guys, hope this is the place for all questions game related, didn't really see another place to post game related questions. 

I game on PS4, and own a AKG 612 Pro, which I have used in the pas for gaming. 

Since I have changed my main speakers from using a surround receiver to active speakers, I don't have a receiver anymore. My used my receiver to convert 5.1 to virtual surround, but that is not an option anymore. Added difficulty is the 120 Ohm resistance the AKG has. 

So my question is as follows, how would I ideally connect my AKG to my PS4? I can use the headphone jack in the controller, but that is only stereo, prevents me from connecting my mic, and while the amp in it is not super is does its job. 

However, I am willing to spend some money on a mixamp kind of solution via USB. I have been completely out of the loop though on these things. I remember the mixamp doesn't have enough power to drive my AKG? Are there any new solutions on this front? Amps with dolby headphones solutions? 

I play FortniteBR at the moment. Is dolby surround even needed or would stereo suffice? I do own a Fiio E18 too, which could solve my stereo needs, but I feel I would still be at some disadvantage with pure stereo. 

Any insights is welcome


----------



## illram

Qupie said:


> Hi guys, hope this is the place for all questions game related, didn't really see another place to post game related questions.
> 
> I game on PS4, and own a AKG 612 Pro, which I have used in the pas for gaming.
> 
> ...



Mixamp would be the simplest solution if a microphone is mandatory. Sound Blaster X7 would be better quality but getting the mic to work with consoles is more complicated. (Search the forums, lots of posts about it.)


----------



## TeeReQs

illram said:


> Mixamp would be the simplest solution if a microphone is mandatory. Sound Blaster X7 would be better quality but getting the mic to work with consoles is more complicated. (Search the forums, lots of posts about it.)



Voice on PS4 with the X7 is super simple using the Creative BTW-2 adapter, but Xbox is another story..I just use the xbox app on my PC, and start a party chat through there to not have to use any extra wires. This doesn't allow you to talk to anyone outside your party though.


----------



## illram

Forgot about that. Makes X7 for PS4 a no brainer! On Xbox it is an amazon jungle of wires.


----------



## TeeReQs

illram said:


> Forgot about that. Makes X7 for PS4 a no brainer! On Xbox it is an amazon jungle of wires.


Yeah, no kidding. If you aren't gaming at your desk, don't even consider it. Even then, it's quite a mess of wires on Xbox.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Qupie said:


> Hi guys, hope this is the place for all questions game related, didn't really see another place to post game related questions.
> I game on PS4, and own a AKG 612 Pro, which I have used in the pas for gaming.
> Since I have changed my main speakers from using a surround receiver to active speakers, I don't have a receiver anymore. My used my receiver to convert 5.1 to virtual surround, but that is not an option anymore. Added difficulty is the 120 Ohm resistance the AKG has.
> So my question is as follows, how would I ideally connect my AKG to my PS4? I can use the headphone jack in the controller, but that is only stereo, prevents me from connecting my mic, and while the amp in it is not super is does its job.
> ...



Buy a used Astro Mix-amp ($40-$50) and daisy chain a more powerful headphone amplifier (schiit Magni or O2), off the mix-amp.


----------



## Braincandy

I am looking to pick up some good headphones for multiple purposes. I'd be using them mostly gaming and movies, with a bit of music thrown in. I've pretty much got it narrowed down to the X2's or the Massdrop 7xx's. How do they compare? Do the X2's demand amplification like I hear the 7xx's do?

My other question is a matter of amplification.. I want to connect it to the headphone jack port on my Soundblaster z which already has a touch of amplification.  According to what I can find, it rates 125mW into 32Ω with a 5V supply. Would that alone be good for either of those, or will I still need an amp to make them worthwhile. Also, can I connect the amp directly to that amplified headphone jack?


----------



## Qupie (Jan 12, 2018)

Thank you guys, I found an older refurbished mixamp on sale on ebay (X7 is just too expensive for me honestly, a 2nd hand AV receiver is cheaper...) 2011 model, think that is one of the best models if I understand it correctly?

Will probably be using my Fiio E18 for extra amplification. Might look into a cheaper pure amp without dac later, because I like to leave my E18 at my work.

Will report back. The seller where I bought my Mixamp (+A30) does have non refurbished ones too, for a little bit more. Probably still a very good price if anyone is intersted:

https://www.ebay.nl/itm/Astro-Gamin...243044?hash=item2a5ca99124:g:yqMAAOSw8-tWVzBt

They said it was this model:

https://www.astrogaming.co.uk/on/de...rvice-ProductSupportItem?hid=MixAmp-gen1-2011

Curious how the A30 performs, probably ends up in a box to never get out of there if I can believe the review on here.

Now on to finding a nice MIC to go with my AKG K612. The cord is not detachable, so a inline wont work. Probably a mod mic. Can I just plug this into the controller? Or does it need to be in the mixamp?


----------



## LurkerZA

Greetings Head-Fi gurus!

Need some advice please, I currently use a Sennheiser HD518 headphone, but it is getting on a bit and I dislike switching to my Sony Gold wireless 'phones when a mic is needed for gaming sessions.
I've decided to get a good gaming headset with a mic instead, that I can use for general media (music, movies) as well as gaming.

I've done some research, and based on what's available in my area have narrowed it down to two possible replacements:

1. Sennheiser Game One (New, ~$245)
2. Audio Technica ATH-PDG1 (Used, ~$140)

Which would be the better pick of the two listed? I do feel that the Senns might be the overall superior choice, but is it worth the additional $100 over the PDG1's?


----------



## mbyrnes

LurkerZA said:


> Greetings Head-Fi gurus!
> 
> Need some advice please, I currently use a Sennheiser HD518 headphone, but it is getting on a bit and I dislike switching to my Sony Gold wireless 'phones when a mic is needed for gaming sessions.
> I've decided to get a good gaming headset with a mic instead, that I can use for general media (music, movies) as well as gaming.
> ...



Massdrop Sennheiser PC37X. It's $119, ships almost instantly, and is the game one without the dongle (has 2 3.5mm cables).


----------



## heliosphann

Braincandy said:


> I am looking to pick up some good headphones for multiple purposes. I'd be using them mostly gaming and movies, with a bit of music thrown in. I've pretty much got it narrowed down to the X2's or the Massdrop 7xx's. How do they compare? Do the X2's demand amplification like I hear the 7xx's do?
> 
> My other question is a matter of amplification.. I want to connect it to the headphone jack port on my Soundblaster z which already has a touch of amplification.  According to what I can find, it rates 125mW into 32Ω with a 5V supply. Would that alone be good for either of those, or will I still need an amp to make them worthwhile. Also, can I connect the amp directly to that amplified headphone jack?



X2's for sure. They don't need amped nearly as much as the 7XX's to sound good. I personally use X1 and X2's for gaming, they sound fantastic and are incredibly comfortable.

The X2 should be good enough directly out of your SBZ headphone jack. It's usually not good to double amp a source, which you would be doing if you added an amp from the headphone out. I believe the SBZ has an optical out. You're best bet for sound quality would be to get a DAC/AMP that has optical in.


----------



## LurkerZA

mbyrnes said:


> Massdrop Sennheiser PC37X. It's $119, ships almost instantly, and is the game one without the dongle (has 2 3.5mm cables).



Thanks, it would be a great choice but unfortunately Massdrop does not ship to South Africa.


----------



## Monsterzero

For anyone interested I put my Taction Kannons thru the paces tonight,here are a few brief thoughts...

Comfort is reasonably good.
Gun shots sound/feel like Howitzers!By far the most immersive thunderous gunfire and explosions ever!
The Astro MixAmp Pro drives the Kannons very well.
Sound stage and imaging arent that great making it not the first choice for hardcore detail whoring and enemy pin pointing.
The stock cable is a bit short,so if you sit back on a couch while gaming you will probably need to get an aftermarket 1/8">1/8" cable.


----------



## CFGamescape

xH4wK said:


> I have tested both G5 and E5
> To me personally, playing Playerunknown's Battlegrounds.. G5 is very accurate with 7.1 surround sound and with EQ changes to lower highs a bit (basically change eq to my preference and headphones signature) I have absolutely no issues with it. I will keep it and return the E5 tommorow.



Sorry for digging up a super old post (I found it cross-posted in the G5 thread). Do you mind sharing your surround and EQ settings for PUBG?


----------



## Braincandy

heliosphann said:


> X2's for sure. They don't need amped nearly as much as the 7XX's to sound good. I personally use X1 and X2's for gaming, they sound fantastic and are incredibly comfortable.
> 
> The X2 should be good enough directly out of your SBZ headphone jack. It's usually not good to double amp a source, which you would be doing if you added an amp from the headphone out. I believe the SBZ has an optical out. You're best bet for sound quality would be to get a DAC/AMP that has optical in.




Given that I am relatively new to the headphone game and I already have a potent speaker set, I decided not to go whole hog on something like the X2's or 7xx's and went with the PC37xx. It upgrades my mic and headphones, and can use my headphone port with no problems. So far, they are outstanding. They sound great, the mic is crystal clear and I can wear them for hours and forget they are on my head.


----------



## PurpelHayzd

Never knew how deep this audiophile sound world got, And it makes me wanna pull my hair out on deciding on a pair of headphones for gaming.

So if you have a budget off 200-500 (I can go higher it is really worth it, I need to hold my self back because I'm the type to go crazy lol)
What would be better out of this choice, I've read all lover here and watched videos ect. And the more you find out the more confused you can become, I guess being a subjective topic on what sounds better it gets like that.

1. Comfort / its gotta feel great for hours.
2. Accurate pin pointing sound positioning is number 1, 
Would like to hear the guy in another room to the left of me farting while another guy down stairs is breathing. lol
3. I do listen to music (hiphop/rap), So if i pay the extra coin and get best of both worlds that would be even better.

My selection for gaming has come down too/ open headphones.
Sennheiser - HD598sr (every place I find this is a go to choice bang for buck gaming)
AKG k712 Pro 
Audio Technica - ATH-AD900x
Sennheiser - HD600 
Beyerdynamic - DT 880
I will run a amp/dac for them and a ModMic 5.0

If they were all free whats the best option? being Australian the prices are crazy, but that's stranded.


----------



## heliosphann

PurpelHayzd said:


> Never knew how deep this audiophile sound world got, And it makes me wanna pull my hair out on deciding on a pair of headphones for gaming.
> 
> So if you have a budget off 200-500 (I can go higher it is really worth it, I need to hold my self back because I'm the type to go crazy lol)
> What would be better out of this choice, I've read all lover here and watched videos ect. And the more you find out the more confused you can become, I guess being a subjective topic on what sounds better it gets like that.
> ...



Out of all those, I say the k712 Pro. I've had the rest, and they don't have the soundstage (except the AD900x) and bass response.

Personally I'd recommend the Phillips Fidelio X2. I run them for gaming (along with a ModMic) and they're comfortable, have a huge soundstage and have way better bass than any you listed.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Somewhat off topic here but as I'm not a member of any computer forum and this has to do with PC gaming I would like to ask the experts in this thread a question.
I did find a lot of similar questions on PC forums through none of themmanaged to answer the questions I have for my situation.
Also, my question is about video cards but more soundthan video related.

Here it comes.
I would like to use 2 Nvidia video cards in one PC.
I know that's possible but I'm not interested in using one for Physx or using them in SLI (though I have no problem with it if they have to be configured that way}.
I am also not inetersted in using  multi-monitor setup or anything like that.

So why then?
Well, I need multiple HDMI ports (4 or 5 actually) all putting out the same signal.
I would only use 2 of them at the same time though (one for video, 1 for audio) but I really want all of them to be connected so I can switch easily).
I need HDMI for sound output since it's the only way to output HD sound. USBand optical are limited to DD and DTS, they can't output Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Masteror higher.
So what do I want to connect?
- a monitor via Diplay Port (ultrawide)
- a TV via HDMI (4K HDR)
- VR glasses
- a Smyth Realiser (the headphone equivalent of an A/V receiver)
- 2 Soundbars (Atmos or at least TrueHD capable)

So how do I go about getting 4 to 5 HDMI ports? The only good way I know about is two video cards with 3 outputs or so. I tried a bunch of HDMI splitters but they're a real pain and none of them did output all I want, except HD Fury but that one only has two outputs.

Any info you can share with me would be really welcome!


----------



## illram

Maybe people with SLI + multi-monitor setups can answer this? I remember reading once that a single card with 2x HDMI ports cannot split the audio and video between the two different HDMI ports. Unsure if that inability extends to dual cards.


----------



## PurpelHayzd

heliosphann said:


> Out of all those, I say the k712 Pro. I've had the rest, and they don't have the soundstage (except the AD900x) and bass response.
> 
> Personally I'd recommend the Phillips Fidelio X2. I run them for gaming (along with a ModMic) and they're comfortable, have a huge soundstage and have way better bass than any you listed.


I honestly was going to add them to the list and completely forget about the Phillips Fidelio X2, they keep popping up aswell
Personally I was learning towards the AKG k712 pro bout have no idea how the soundstage and imaging are on those, so your saying the k712's are not the right choice for FPS positional gaming such as pubg and such.. I know the AD900x are used in the gaming world alot I just don't like the reviews on comfort and how they slide around so thats kinda out for me.
Im guessing if its to bassy i'm loosing in sound elsewhere? i don't really need the extra bass if i loose gaming performance.


----------



## AppleheadMay

illram said:


> Maybe people with SLI + multi-monitor setups can answer this? I remember reading once that a single card with 2x HDMI ports cannot split the audio and video between the two different HDMI ports. Unsure if that inability extends to dual cards.


That would probably be the case with two cards as well but it doesn't really matter, both outputs put out audio and video so you can put them in to an audio or video device.
It's different for the outputs of AV receivers for example. My receiver (other room, living room for movies) has 3 HDMI outputs but wouldn't be adequate in my computer setup as one only passes through video, the othertwo video with stereo sound. The HD audio signal doesn't get passed through.


----------



## Monsterzero

PurpelHayzd said:


> Iso your saying the k712's are not the right choice for FPS positional gaming such as pubg and such..



The AKGs K702/712 need a good amp to sound good,so if youre willing to plunk down extra cash for an amp then theyre a great choice,otherwise I'd look into the X1/X2 or DT880 DT990.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Somewhat off topic here but as I'm not a member of any computer forum and this has to do with PC gaming I would like to ask the experts in this thread a question.
> I did find a lot of similar questions on PC forums through none of themmanaged to answer the questions I have for my situation.
> Also, my question is about video cards but more soundthan video related.
> 
> ...


L
O
L

No, USB is not limited to Dolby Digital. Moreover, Both Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD are compressed audio formats, unlike regular LPCM 7.1 or higher which USB fully supports. Even the Smyth Realizer website clearly states that they support 16 channel Atmos over USB connection.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> L
> O
> L
> 
> No, USB is not limited to Dolby Digital. Moreover, Both Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD are compressed audio formats, unlike regular LPCM 7.1 or higher which USB fully supports. Even the Smyth Realizer website clearly states that they support 16 channel Atmos over USB connection.




Why the LoL?  

Indeed for the Realiser it does, forgot about that but I think remembering reading somewhere there was some kind of disadvantage not using HDMI for the Realiser.
In any case it wouldn't output the video then and I also would only be able to input one device using USB. I am planning to use all 4 HDMI inputs for a PS4, Xbox, Mac and PC ... 

For other devices, soundbars in my case, the few interesting ones I found so far didn't support higher that DD/DTS via optical and USB. Would be sweet if they did though.
The one I was most intersted in and that I have tried at home was the Yamaha YSP-5600. It had all I wanted (Atmos, 4k passthrough and wired sub-out) but it didn't have HDR passthrough sadly. I have my hopes up for the new Sennheiser Soundbar that is coming this year. I will be trying out a Yarra 3DX via the analog outputs of the Realiser as well but fear the poor thing might be a bit underpowered.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Why the LoL?
> 
> Indeed for the Realiser it does, forgot about that but I think remembering reading somewhere there was some kind of disadvantage not using HDMI for the Realiser.
> In any case it wouldn't output the video then and I also would only be able to input one device using USB. I am planning to use all 4 HDMI inputs for a PS4, Xbox, Mac and PC ...
> ...


Try the Creative Carrier-X, might have all the functionalities you need.


----------



## PurpelHayzd

monsterzero said:


> The AKGs K702/712 need a good amp to sound good,so if youre willing to plunk down extra cash for an amp then theyre a great choice,otherwise I'd look into the X1/X2 or DT880 DT990.


Yeah mate,
I plan on buying an Amp/Dac for any headset I buy, but I'm looking to get a decent set so in the future when I decent to ever step up and get a better headphones I should be sweet.
atm I'm looking at the Mayflower ARC or Schiit Jotunheim should be enough. Just need help on the best headphones in the list first.

Cheers


----------



## WhiteHartMart

PurpelHayzd said:


> I honestly was going to add them to the list and completely forget about the Phillips Fidelio X2, they keep popping up aswell
> Personally I was learning towards the AKG k712 pro bout have no idea how the soundstage and imaging are on those, so your saying the k712's are not the right choice for FPS positional gaming such as pubg and such.. I know the AD900x are used in the gaming world alot I just don't like the reviews on comfort and how they slide around so thats kinda out for me.
> Im guessing if its to bassy i'm loosing in sound elsewhere? i don't really need the extra bass if i loose gaming performance.



I have the X2 now also after previously owning the K702 - the 702s were just fantastic for gaming and great for positional awareness and soundstage. The X2 aren't quote as good in that respect in that area in my opinion but are more suitable for music for me (K702 were just too neutral sounding and needed a little more bass for me) so a better all rounder.  The sacrifice on the gaming side is so minor.

Having said that the K712 are supposed to have a little more bass - I'd like to try some to compare to my X2!


----------



## PurpelHayzd (Jan 20, 2018)

WhiteHartMart said:


> I have the X2 now also after previously owning the K702 - the 702s were just fantastic for gaming and great for positional awareness and soundstage. The X2 aren't quote as good in that respect in that area in my opinion but are more suitable for music for me (K702 were just too neutral sounding and needed a little more bass for me) so a better all rounder.  The sacrifice on the gaming side is so minor.
> 
> Having said that the K712 are supposed to have a little more bass - I'd like to try some to compare to my X2!



Anyone ran the ATH-AD2000x for gaming along side the AKG k712 pro. Soundstage on the ad2000x seems perfect for gaming but i also hear that the airyness (not sure what that means) makes then not so accurate but gives them that feel.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> Try the Creative Carrier-X, might have all the functionalities you need.



Well ....
USD 5700 usually translates to Euro 6000-6500 in Europe, no matter what the dollor to euro rate. 
Also, the 50% discount in the US translates to a middle finger in Europe as usual. 
I'm not really trusting a product that isn't even produced yet and gets discounted at half the price already.
On top of that used resale value will probably be magnificent for that one. 

No, seriously, I'm not going to drop 6k on a soundbar and certainly not when it's from Creative Labs.


----------



## heliosphann

PurpelHayzd said:


> I honestly was going to add them to the list and completely forget about the Phillips Fidelio X2, they keep popping up aswell
> Personally I was learning towards the AKG k712 pro bout have no idea how the soundstage and imaging are on those, so your saying the k712's are not the right choice for FPS positional gaming such as pubg and such.. I know the AD900x are used in the gaming world alot I just don't like the reviews on comfort and how they slide around so thats kinda out for me.
> Im guessing if its to bassy i'm loosing in sound elsewhere? i don't really need the extra bass if i loose gaming performance.



No, the k712 (along with the X2) have very large soundstages, which usually helps with positioning on FPS. The k712's have a slight bass boost, which won't effect the other frequencies. The X2's are even more bassy/warm sounding. They're not as technically as good as the k712's, but they're more enjoyable in my opinion. They k712's are also going to need a better amp to properly drive them. 

Here's a thread I found: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/akg-k712-pro-vs-philips-fidelio-x2.839243/

Also the AD900x's can either be extremely comfortable (as they were for me), or they can be problematic depending on your head size.


----------



## HiCZoK

Hey everyone!

As a fan and proud owner of Koss Porta Pro should I try some other headphones?
I had other headphones like Cal!, HM2 and some gaming stuff from creative but this is the most epicly comfortable headphones I've ever tried. Allows my ears to breath and not sweat even in summer after long hours. I can easily forget about wearing them. 
Pads could be a little bit softer maybe but I would not like then to be any thicker so they are good as they are. The sound quality is just amazing. They have great soundstage and separation at the same time as having very fun bass. So these are great for music and for gaming. Generally they are not flat and this is the reason why I love them. HM5 was way too boring and CAL! bass was lacking.

So, being as it is... should I even remotely continue trying other headphones? Is there anything else that would satisfy nonsweaty long hours comfort and have warm/bassy and yet open/wide sound signature? I need to get ksc75, that's for sure... But I expect them to have less bass anyway. 

This said, I am running it off e10k and I am not sure if that's a good choice. Generally, it's a fantastic product but being usb dac, it creates some "pop" noise when music starts/stops.
At the same time, it's nice having a dac and volume right there on my desk which makes plugging headphones easier. But there is no reason I couldn't have jack cord extension from back of some sound card too.
And Koss PP don't need amp anyway. They play very nicely of ps4 controller too. No issues at all.


----------



## mbyrnes

HiCZoK said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> As a fan and proud owner of Koss Porta Pro should I try some other headphones?
> I had other headphones like Cal!, HM2 and some gaming stuff from creative but this is the most epicly comfortable headphones I've ever tried. Allows my ears to breath and not sweat even in summer after long hours. I can easily forget about wearing them.
> ...



What's your budget? I really like planar headphones for gaming. Monoprice M1060 is a great headphone at $300. There's a big modding community here with them. Very good bass and open soundstage. 

My favorite gaming headphone is my Hifiman HE-X V2s. Extremely open sounding, good bass, and plenty of details. You can get these used for ~$900. $1,300 new.

I like my Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, which have AWESOME bass, but semi open means a smaller soundstage. I really like these for movies. Mahogany's start at $400 through Massdrop, PH $450, Ebony $500. 

I recently gave away my Beyerdynamic DT-990. They were really good for gaming, but I didn't like them for music. Too much treble energy. Good bass, decent soundstage, and a good value at ~$130.

Best value? Massdrop Sennheiser PC37X. For $120, you get a good mic, easy as hell to drive (114db/1mW), and they sound really good with games and music. Huge improvement over the PC360. I can plug these directly into my Xbox controller and get good volume. I still think these are the best value currently for gaming headphones.


----------



## HiCZoK

@mbyrnes
No budget really... But since I am happy with Porta pro, it would make no sense to spend like 500$ on new headphones that would be only little bit better. I am just thinking out loud more than anything.
I also don't need mic.

I guess I would be very interested to try planars. I've even emailed monoprice if they sell to Europe(Poland) but even if they did, the shipping and fees would double the price... and M560 at 150$ seems like a great deal. But I would not spend more than 200$.
The massdrop stuff also looks great. senn 6XX for 200$ are probably great... but again... This infuriates me because this does not work in europe/Poland... so 200$ massdrop headphone shipping is close too 100$ with another 20/30% tax on it... Sometimes I hate Europe/Poland and companies totally ingoring this market while I can get free shipping from china.


----------



## mbyrnes

HiCZoK said:


> @mbyrnes
> No budget really... But since I am happy with Porta pro, it would make no sense to spend like 500$ on new headphones that would be only little bit better. I am just thinking out loud more than anything.
> I also don't need mic.
> 
> ...



Yeah Europe throws a huge monkey wrench into buying a headphone. Shipping and VAT suck. 

I personally think that once you hit the $500 mark, you're getting a pretty damn good headphone. This is the level where you start hitting small upgrades for a lot of money. The $300 level gets you a good headphone as well, but this price range you really need to do your homework. The tradeoffs between headphones is vast. 

Maybe check the classifieds here. Someone in Europe may be selling a great headphone, which helps with much of the cost. I'd try to hit a meet if you can. Great hearing dozens of headphones, amps, DACs, and sources. Easy to find a headphone, once you know exactly what you want from a headphone. 

You can definitely do better than the Porta Pro. The Hifiman HE-560 has been on sale for $350ish. I thought Monoprice had a European distributor. Good luck my man.


----------



## Yethal

HiCZoK said:


> @mbyrnes
> No budget really... But since I am happy with Porta pro, it would make no sense to spend like 500$ on new headphones that would be only little bit better. I am just thinking out loud more than anything.
> I also don't need mic.
> 
> ...


I'll have Shure SRH1840 to sell in a week, reach out via PM if interested.


----------



## super kermit (Jan 24, 2018)

*PC gaming ONLY soundcard with AKG 712 pro + Schiit Modi 2 Uber + Magna 3 + a buttkicker Gamer 2
*
Currently onboard optical out from Asus Rampage V extreme

https://www.asus.com/au/Motherboards/RAMPAGE_V_EXTREME/specifications/

AKG 712 Pro - ordered and on the way
Schiit Modi 2 Uber - *on order (backorder*)
Magna 3 - *on order (backorder)*
buttkicker Gamer 2 - have this already

I would like a soundcard with the best sound for *gaming ONLY looks like the Sound BlasterX AE-5


I will be using an optical splitter (1 x optical in to 2 x optical out)

1 optical out to Schiit Modi 2 Uber

1 optical out with another cheap DAC to the buttkicker gamer 2

Please.............. please help me​*
*Do I even need a soundcard coupled with the Schiit or just use onboard

OR*

Sound BlasterX AE-5 driving AKG 712 pros and *NO SCHIIT DAC or AMP*


----------



## Yethal

super kermit said:


> *PC gaming ONLY soundcard with AKG 712 pro + Schiit Modi 2 Uber + Magna 3 + a buttkicker Gamer 2
> *
> Currently onboard optical out from Asus Rampage V extreme
> 
> ...


Out Of Your Head


----------



## super kermit

The retail price Out Of Your Head is $149. This price includes one free speaker preset.
PASS


----------



## CFGamescape (Jan 24, 2018)

super kermit said:


> *PC gaming ONLY soundcard with AKG 712 pro + Schiit Modi 2 Uber + Magna 3 + a buttkicker Gamer 2
> *
> Currently onboard optical out from Asus Rampage V extreme
> 
> ...


I think your proposed setup is too complicated and may compromise the sound. I know the ButtKicker is cool, but if you're looking for the best _sound _for gaming, then just go with a gaming soundcard for your headphones and be done with it (and don't worry about the BK, unless there is an additional output you can connect it to). Also, an optical connection into the Schiit stack would eliminate whatever virtual surround functionality your motherboard or soundcard has, as the Schiit components are stereo only.

If you really want the Schiit stack, don't get the soundcard; you could game in stereo only, which I've found to be perfectly acceptable. For _gaming_, I feel the benefits of directional sound are important for certain games (i.e., FPS games). In those cases, I actually don't really care about the sound quality, just that the sounds important for me to perform better are represented accurately in the virtual world. I've compromised on all of this by just using the Sound Blaster G5 for gaming and music on my PC. I might add music-centric devices in the future, but I would just add it to my current setup (along side my G5) and enable whatever device in Windows, depending on use (gaming or music).


----------



## super kermit (Jan 24, 2018)

From my limited reading and understanding

PC > optical out with surround effects done by PC > Shiit stack >AKG 712 Pros

I should now go

PC > optical out >  Sound Blaster G5 > AKG 712 Pros ?

OR

PC > Soundblaster AE-5 > AKG712 Pros?

I don't see the benefit of the G5 over the AE-5

I can still use the buttkicker via an optical splitter


----------



## CFGamescape

super kermit said:


> From my limited reading and understanding
> 
> PC > optical out with surround effects done by PC > Shiit stack >AKG 712 Pros
> 
> ...



A motherboard or soundcard is DAC/amp, so it doesn't make sense to then add another DAC and amp to that chain. If your headphones need more amplification than your motherboard can provide, which is usually the case for most audiophile headphones, then sure, you can add an amp to that chain somehow, but that takes away any virtual surround your motherboard or soundcard does.

I'm suggest you do away with the optical and just use the features of a soundcard using the software it's supposed to be used with. I use the AKG K7XX for gaming plugged into the G5 (which is connected via USB to my PC, as it should be) and it's great. So, I doubt you'll run into any issues with the K712 if you use a G5 or the AE-5. Maybe there's a way to connect the BK to the AE-5 alongside your headphones, but I don't think you can enable both optical and headphone out, so probably not. 

Your question was how do you get the best _sound_ for gaming. My answer is to get a soundcard and plug in your headphones and not worry too much about the BK.


----------



## super kermit

Thanks, helps heaps.

Q - Why a G5 over an AE-5 ?


----------



## CFGamescape

super kermit said:


> Thanks, helps heaps.
> 
> Q - Why a G5 over an AE-5 ?


I'm not actually suggesting the G5 over the AE-5. If I were to make an argument for the G5, then it's because it's an external device and is cheaper. If I were to make an argument for the AE-5, it's that it's newer and has cool lights . I don't think you can go wrong with either. Also, once you decide on your device, you can experiment with the different connections (e.g., optical) and see what happens. Trust your ears and the experience you get.


----------



## super kermit

Is there any difference in regards to using headphones on either?

Does one drive phones better?


----------



## super kermit (Jan 24, 2018)

And the last Q (I hope)

G5 -

Audio Technology SB-Axx1™
Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR)120dB (DAC)
AE-5


Audio Technology BlasterX Acoustic Engine
Dynamic Range (DNR)122dB
I am trying to find out *differences between the SB-Axx1 and BlasterX Acoustic Engine

Is there a replacement coming for the G5? *


----------



## CFGamescape

I don’t have answers to those questions as I don’t have the AE-5. Like I said though, either would be fine for your needs.

No idea if the G5 is being upgraded or replaced. Why don’t you try both and return the one you don’t like as much?


----------



## super kermit

Ordered a G5


----------



## CFGamescape

super kermit said:


> Ordered a G5


Sweet, enjoy! It’s a great deal right now at $129. Mine is plugged into a $200 Nordost USB cable and an iFi iPurifier2. No, I cannot say it does anything but I had those laying around from previously owned setups.


----------



## kevn (Jan 29, 2018)

Looking for audio processor to do the following:

PC, PS4, or Switch -> one 5.1 optical input -> good virtual surround processing for gaming/movies -> one 2.0 PCM optical, line level, or headphone output

I'd prefer optical output so that I can use my own DAC and AMP, but the virtual surround processing quality matters the most. All the options I've looked at seem to have major drawbacks.

Astro Mixamp Pro TR - Seems like they are using the DH-3 setting which is highly exaggerated. I'd prefer not to use Dolby Headphone at all, because they include room reverberations to simulate theaters.

Turtle Beach Elite TAC - Might be an option, but the surround sound processing seems highly exaggerated from what I've listened to on Youtube. It sounded worse than Dolby Headphone with default settings.

Creative G5 - It seems like it only supports 2.0 PCM optical input, from what I've read on Head-Fi.

Creative X-Fi HD - Also has SBX Pro Studio, but would have same issue as G5.

Creative X7 - Supports 5.1 Dolby input. Looks obnoxious. Have to pay for features that I'll never need, like the speaker amplifier.

Smyth Realiser A16 - Really expensive


----------



## raband

kevn said:


> Creative X7 - Supports 5.1 Dolby input. Looks obnoxious. Have to pay for features that I'll never need, like the speaker amplifier.



This one will probably be the only one that will let you use an optical out to your own dac/amp and pass through the virtual surround.

How were you looking at getting the PC/PS4/Switch feeding through a single optical?

With that I'd use the USB from the PC > X7, 
Optical from the PS4/Switch from the ARC passthrough in the TV > X7 (or swap if not using a switcher/TV with ARC)
(using the USB gives the best option from the PC and frees up the Optical port for the other inputs)

Can then use the Optical Out or the Line Out of the X7 to feed whatever you put into it through to the DAC/Amp with or without the surround processing or in "direct mode" (no processing at all)

I've got mine acting both on it's own and also feeding a couple of other DAC/AMP combo's for various setups and choices - optical to one and RCA to another


----------



## kevn

raband said:


> This one will probably be the only one that will let you use an optical out to your own dac/amp and pass through the virtual surround.
> 
> How were you looking at getting the PC/PS4/Switch feeding through a single optical?
> 
> ...



I'm using an optical switcher. The X7 does look like the best option, but I couldn't stomach spending $400 for just basic surround sound processing. I ended up purchasing an Astro Mixamp 2013 on Ebay to use until the Smyth Realiser A16 is released.


----------



## MichaelJames99

I have the Smyth A16 on order but it may still be awhile til it gets released.
I was using the Recon3D before it blew up a year ago. Im looking to replace it. As sources, I have Direct TV receiver (optical or hdmi output) and a Samsung Bluray player and HDDVD player that I need to feed into a unit and then output to a stereo headphone plug that goes into my headphone amp (Musical Fidelity XCan v2) and then to AKG712 headphones. I dont mind plugging and unplugging sources into a unit. Into the Recon3d I was using the Digital input jack and powering it using a nearby laptop USB plug. I sit on my couch and watch all TV on a 65" Plasma.

which product would you recommend to replace the Recon3D?  This is for movies ONLY.


Headphones: AKG712 headphone, Musical Fidelity XCan v2,  Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling 3D Wi-Fi Blu-ray Disc Player (2014) + DirectTv, PreAmp Processor: Marantz AV7702 w/ATMOS, Sunfire Signature Amps x3, BG Radia SA-200 in 7.2 Sonance 2 in-wall subs 10" Smyth A16 on order


----------



## dakanao

Is it possible to connect my Geek Out 450 USB amp to the Turtle Beach DSS, and improve the surround sound that way? Is so, how do I do it? Because I've tried several all ways of doing it, but the only way I get sound, is if I connect the amp via a 3.5 to 3.5 mm to the direct headphone output of the DSS, and connect my headphones to the amp itself.

However, this causes the sound to be inferior, and the volume to be a lot quieter than when I plug the hrafphones to the DSS itself, and I can't control the volume vis the Geek Out, because the Geek out only responds when it is plugged into a powered USB device, and I don't get any sound that way..

The reason I'm asking this, is because I want to get the K7xx for gaming only, and I've read you can't use the DSS alone to power them sufficently with good  enough dynamics.

The other option I'm considering is the HD 598, however I've read that they're not as good in soundstage and imaging compared to an amped K7xx, and that they're a bit grainy/not as smooth in the uppermids (which is a HUGE let down for me)


----------



## EsaT

CFGamescape said:


> If your headphones need more amplification than your motherboard can provide, which is usually the case for most audiophile headphones, then sure, you can add an amp to that chain somehow, but that takes away any virtual surround your motherboard or soundcard does.


Proper amplifier is what it says on the tin: It doesn't modify data, only amplifies signal.
Of course if you add something which distorts frequency response or adds other distortions like tubes then you start messing data.
But that's why amplifier should be neutral instead of "warm" or what ever terms marketing comes up with..


----------



## EsaT

dakanao said:


> Is it possible to connect my Geek Out 450 USB amp to the Turtle Beach DSS, and improve the surround sound that way? Is so, how do I do it? Because I've tried several all ways of doing it, but the only way I get sound, is if I connect the amp via a 3.5 to 3.5 mm to the direct headphone output of the DSS, and connect my headphones to the amp itself.
> 
> However, this causes the sound to be inferior, and the volume to be a lot quieter than when I plug the hrafphones to the DSS itself, and I can't control the volume vis the Geek Out, because the Geek out only responds when it is plugged into a powered USB device, and I don't get any sound that way..


Geek Out 450 doesn't work as separate amplifier:
It lacks analog line input.
Its 3,5mm jacks are parallel connected outputs and that 47 ohm output impedance of one acts like serial resistor lowering volume... and decreasing damping factor.

Are you using DSS to get Dolby Headphone for consoles?


----------



## dakanao

EsaT said:


> Geek Out 450 doesn't work as separate amplifier:
> It lacks analog line input.
> Its 3,5mm jacks are parallel connected outputs and that 47 ohm output impedance of one acts like serial resistor lowering volume... and decreasing damping factor.
> 
> Are you using DSS to get Dolby Headphone for consoles?


Thank you for the useful answer.

Yes, I'm using the DSS for Dolby Headphone on the 360.


----------



## AppleheadMay

MichaelJames99 said:


> I have the Smyth A16 on order but it may still be awhile til it gets released.
> I was using the Recon3D before it blew up a year ago. Im looking to replace it. As sources, I have Direct TV receiver (optical or hdmi output) and a Samsung Bluray player and HDDVD player that I need to feed into a unit and then output to a stereo headphone plug that goes into my headphone amp (Musical Fidelity XCan v2) and then to AKG712 headphones. I dont mind plugging and unplugging sources into a unit. Into the Recon3d I was using the Digital input jack and powering it using a nearby laptop USB plug. I sit on my couch and watch all TV on a 65" Plasma.
> which product would you recommend to replace the Recon3D?  This is for movies ONLY.
> Headphones: AKG712 headphone, Musical Fidelity XCan v2,  Samsung BD-F7500 4K Upscaling 3D Wi-Fi Blu-ray Disc Player (2014) + DirectTv, PreAmp Processor: Marantz AV7702 w/ATMOS, Sunfire Signature Amps x3, BG Radia SA-200 in 7.2 Sonance 2 in-wall subs 10" Smyth A16 on order



Also a Realiser on order here and a Marantz SR8012 owner allbeit with 5.1. Love Marantz stuff.
I also used a Recon 3D in the past and thought it wsn't bad for the money. For the moment I use a stereo headphone amp.

I wonder if anyone tried the Sennheiser GSX 1000 here and what they thought about it.
Saw a few reviews about it on the web but I'd prefer real user experience.
Could it drive the HD700? 
I recently acquired the HD700 at 440€ brand new, quite a nice bargain I thought.
I tried some games with it with the stereo amp and really liked the sound, big soundstage and positioning for gaming.

Any thoughts on the GSX 1000 anyone?


----------



## raband

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder if anyone tried the Sennheiser GSX 1000 here and what they thought about it.
> Saw a few reviews about it on the web but I'd prefer real user experience.



The GSX1000 has given me the best VSS performance I've found so far from all the main performers.

The HD700 is the can I usually use with it.

I'm hopeless with frontal cues with VSS - the GSX allows me to resolve them best so far


----------



## EsaT

dakanao said:


> Thank you for the useful answer.
> 
> Yes, I'm using the DSS for Dolby Headphone on the 360.


Not that many devices for that use with need to accept Dolby Digital input.

Output's inadequency would easiest show in high dynamic range content like classical music:
In those average signal level is low and you increase volume based onto that, while there are then transients and short moments with lot louder sound.
Games don't have such level volume differences, because it would be annoying if you had basically ears ringing when shooting match started.
(or wouldn't hear other sounds if adjusted for gunshots etc)
So there's hope that it works without problems.

While some DAC/amp combinations have analog line input for using them as headphone amplifier mostly it needs separate headphone amplifier.
Like Objective2 designed was absolute neutral sound. (important for not affecting positional cues of binaural sound)


----------



## EsaT

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder if anyone tried the Sennheiser GSX 1000 here and what they thought about it.
> Saw a few reviews about it on the web but I'd prefer real user experience.
> Could it drive the HD700?
> I recently acquired the HD700 at 440€ brand new, quite a nice bargain I thought.
> ...


Unfortunately Sennheiser GSX is badly overpriced for its hardware.
It uses low end Conexant CX20745 DAC/output buffer chip meant for phones/tablets struggling to match budget level Audigy Fx/Xonar DGX sound card:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-gsx-1000-1200-impressions.824923/page-30#post-13504383.
http://conexant.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/CX20745_ds.pdf

Some people say that HD650 needs more power than motherboard integrated and standard sound cards can give and if that's the case GSX would certainly struggle.
But HD700 no doubt has different driver so might work without problems and HD700 was actually used in this blind testing:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html

Still price of GSX is lot more than lot cheaper and better sound cards, or still cheaper ones with pretty much top level headphone output.


Which binaural simulation works best can certainly vary depending on shape&size of head and outer ears of listener.
Though if those differ from average every algorithm should struggle one way or another.
Myself what I've tested GSX recordings I've found with AKG K702, K712, Beyer DT990 and Sennheiser HD595 it doesn't have advantage over Creative's algorithms and they're overall even.

Here's some game samples with Creative you can listen yourself:
Positional surround sound with headphones in Battlefield 4
Battlefield 4 with different soundcards and onboard - (standard headphones)
This has quick test in start. (that 100% setting isn't optimal)
SBX vs. CMSS-3D vs. Razer vs. Dolby vs. Realtek - headphone game sound test


----------



## AppleheadMay

raband said:


> The GSX1000 has given me the best VSS performance I've found so far from all the main performers.
> 
> The HD700 is the can I usually use with it.
> 
> I'm hopeless with frontal cues with VSS - the GSX allows me to resolve them best so far



Great to know, thanks!
I’ve been tempted to order one for a while.
I doubt if it will see much use once the Realiser comes in though.
Could it be used via USB on a console by any chance?
And what is the difference between the 1000 and the 1200?
Just some teamspeak option or something like that?


----------



## raband

EsaT said:


> Which binaural simulation works best can certainly vary depending on shape&size of head and outer ears of listener.



Definitely this. 

Try and find the solution that works best for you



AppleheadMay said:


> And what is the difference between the 1000 and the 1200?
> Just some teamspeak option or something like that?



Just the chaining up of them for chat.



AppleheadMay said:


> Could it be used via USB on a console by any chance?



No, PC only.

While the GSX sounds the best for me for VSS, it's the X7 that is in daily use - far more functional and generally better all round.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@EsaT
Thank you for the info. But I'm afraid no soundcard will have the installation convenience of something like the GSX 1000.
Amazing how little the tech costs though. Would love to see the BoM of certain "high end" stuff i this hobby.

@raband
That's what I thought, no use to go for the 1200.
I wouldn't mind a little gadget like the GSX 1000 but an X7 (which I heard and did find good) I will pass on since i have the Realiser incoming.
Thanks for the info!


----------



## Azurik

Can someone please clarify Xbox one Dolby Atmos for headphones for me. 

I understand it works by either plugging stereo headphones directly in to the controller, or if I use a Hdmi/ optical headset directly connected to the box. 

Now, I use an external optical Dac/ amp which is fed by the stereo pass-through tv instead of a direct Xbox to dac connection.  
Meaning, I got all my consoles plugged in to my tv via hdmi and then pass through to my dac via optical. 

When I tick the hdmi/ optical option in Dolby Atmos for headphones, I understand the signal gets mixed by the box and send via hdmi/ optical. 

As this is technically still a stereo signal, the tv should just pass it through without having any issues right? 

Also, what are recommended sound options in games when I have the choice of stereo or surround?

Is the box downmixing/ upmixing to Dolby Atmos for headphones according to choice of sound?


----------



## EsaT

AppleheadMay said:


> @EsaT
> Thank you for the info. But I'm afraid no soundcard will have the installation convenience of something like the GSX 1000.
> Amazing how little the tech costs though. Would love to see the BoM of certain "high end" stuff i this hobby.
> 
> ...


Still paying 5+ times the price for budget level hardware isn't exactly sensible.
While you can get Sound BlasterX AE-5 with pretty much absolute top level D/A-converter and high end headphone output (+ lots of other connectivity) for clearly less than GSX.
And for less work in installation (or no space inside case) Sound BlasterX G5 would be pretty comparable to AE-5 at same price.

Realiser's BoM certainly wouldn't look "nice" for buyer.
Lets hope that in some day there's measurement standard for personal HRTF, which you could get measured in say shop and  could then use that measurement result for adjusting devices and sound cards.


----------



## AppleheadMay

EsaT said:


> Still paying 5+ times the price for budget level hardware isn't exactly sensible.
> While you can get Sound BlasterX AE-5 with pretty much absolute top level D/A-converter and high end headphone output (+ lots of other connectivity) for clearly less than GSX.
> And for less work in installation (or no space inside case) Sound BlasterX G5 would be pretty comparable to AE-5 at same price.
> 
> ...



SB is coming with a Realiser like product as well. I wonder how it will compare.
Will take a look at that G5, thanks.


----------



## raband

EsaT said:


> Realiser's BoM certainly wouldn't look "nice" for buyer.



Am tipping BoM for anyone reading this forum vs what they are using would not look nice.



EsaT said:


> Lets hope that in some day there's measurement standard for personal HRTF, which you could get measured............



blah, blah, blah - cure for cancer, world peace, equality, clean drinking water and hrtf for all.


----------



## AppleheadMay

EsaT said:


> Still paying 5+ times the price for budget level hardware isn't exactly sensible.
> While you can get Sound BlasterX AE-5 with pretty much absolute top level D/A-converter and high end headphone output (+ lots of other connectivity) for clearly less than GSX.
> And for less work in installation (or no space inside case) Sound BlasterX G5 would be pretty comparable to AE-5 at same price.
> 
> ...



I took a look at the G5.
- weird that this one works with a console and the Senn doesn't?
- the G5 seems to need software while the Senn doesn't? No simple plug in and use for the G5? I thought that was the case for the Senn.
- how can the G5 work on a console when it needs software? An app running on the console?


----------



## EsaT

Azurik said:


> When I tick the hdmi/ optical option in Dolby Atmos for headphones, I understand the signal gets mixed by the box and send via hdmi/ optical.
> 
> As this is technically still a stereo signal, the tv should just pass it through without having any issues right?
> 
> ...


Dolby Atmos for Headphones is binaural sound simulation.
So it gives two channel output signal which should be passed on as standard PCM without any processing.

For binaural simulation to work it needs surround/5.1 sound as input.
If game outputs only 2.0/stereo mix it has only left-right information.

If Xbone games commonly have own sound options with speaker set up etc then that's better than most Windows games...


----------



## EsaT

AppleheadMay said:


> SB is coming with a Realiser like product as well. I wonder how it will compare.
> Will take a look at that G5, thanks.


Creative's algorithms (like those of Dolby and others) use some averaged/standard HRTF.
This post has links to some recordings you can use.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...game-one-added.534479/page-2643#post-14011047
Can't say for certain if latest cards use fully same algorithm as SB Z-serie.
People keep using using too much of those Crystalizer etc settings to mess things.



AppleheadMay said:


> I took a look at the G5.
> - weird that this one works with a console and the Senn doesn't?
> - the G5 seems to need software while the Senn doesn't? No simple plug in and use for the G5? I thought that was the case for the Senn.
> - how can the G5 work on a console when it needs software? An app running on the console?


G5 likely has some defaults for its DSP without software.
But it doesn't support Dolby Digital/DTS decoding like expensive Sound Blaster X7 so can't be used for doing binaural-simulation from such source:
http://forums.creative.com/showthread.php?t=741493&p=609906&viewfull=1#post609906

Though looks like it can work also as headphone amp using analog input so could be used to "buffer" headphone's if console's own headphone output isn't enough.
_Even feeding the ODAC into the G5’s line-in, and using it purely as an amp, sounds the same as if I was using the O2, minus the analog volume control._
https://techgage.com/article/creative-sound-blasterx-g5-external-soundcard-headphone-amp-review/


----------



## AppleheadMay

I downloaded the sound samples from Youtube but what exactly is their purpose? Not listening with a stereo amp I guess?


----------



## MichaelJames99

So I ordered the Turtle Beach DSS2 ($20) and the Astro Mixamp 2013 ($50) while I wait for the Smyth A16 to get finished and shipped.
My sources are listed below.  I plan to use the optical output from each to feed to each. (Im ok manually switching back and forth)
I will be using the USB to my laptop to do any custom configuration.  Output from DSS2 and Mixamp..Im using the headphone out to my amp and then out to AKG 712 headphones.

Is it correct to assume that neither DSS2 nor the Mixamp does decoding internally?
On the DirectTV receiver, it just has the option to turn Dolby Digital ON or OFF.  If I have it ON, I assume its sending the already decoded surround to the DSS2 and Mixamp, right?
On the F7500, I should set the output to PCM, Bitstream (Unprocessed..reciever decodes), Bitstream (reencoded to DTS), or Bitstream (reencoded to Dolby Digital)?
Toshiba XA-2 HD DVD Player.. Digital Out SPDIF to PCM or Bitstream?

Let me know your thoughts


----------



## PurpleAngel

MichaelJames99 said:


> So I ordered the Turtle Beach DSS2 ($20) and the Astro Mixamp 2013 ($50) while I wait for the Smyth A16 to get finished and shipped.
> My sources are listed below.  I plan to use the optical output from each to feed to each. (Im ok manually switching back and forth)
> I will be using the USB to my laptop to do any custom configuration.  Output from DSS2 and Mixamp..Im using the headphone out to my amp and then out to AKG 712 headphones.
> 
> ...



S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) can pass 2-channels of PCM digital audio or up to 6 channels of encoded/Bitstream digital audio.
Encoded audio (thru optical/coaxial) is limited to 24-bit/48k, PCM (thru optical/coaxial) can be up to 24-bit/96K or 24-bit/192K

The DSS2 and Mix-amp do process headphone surround sound internally
The DSS2/Mix-amp take in an encoded/bitstream signal, will de-coded the signal into separate audio streams (separate PCM signals), before processing the signal into headphone surround sound..

I would set the Toshiba to Bitstream/Dolby Digital, when sending audio to the DSS2/Mix-amp (thru optical), for headphone surround sound.


----------



## MichaelJames99

PurpleAngel said:


> S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) can pass 2-channels of PCM digital audio or up to 6 channels of encoded/Bitstream digital audio.
> Encoded audio (thru optical/coaxial) is limited to 24-bit/48k, PCM (thru optical/coaxial) can be up to 24-bit/96K or 24-bit/192K
> 
> The DSS2 and Mix-amp do process headphone surround sound internally
> ...



Im confused.  The Toshiba doesnt have a Bitstream/Dolby Digital option.  Only PCM or Bitstream.
So I assume you are saying I should set all devices below to Bitstream?

On the DirectTV receiver, it just has the option to turn Dolby Digital ON or OFF. If I have it ON, I assume its sending the already decoded surround to the DSS2 and Mixamp, right?
On the F7500, I should set the output to PCM, Bitstream (Unprocessed..reciever decodes), Bitstream (reencoded to DTS), or Bitstream (reencoded to Dolby Digital)?
Toshiba XA-2 HD DVD Player.. Digital Out SPDIF to PCM or Bitstream?


----------



## EsaT

AppleheadMay said:


> I downloaded the sound samples from Youtube but what exactly is their purpose? Not listening with a stereo amp I guess?


They should be listened exactly in stereo without any kind effect processings to avoid messing spatial cues.
(neutral amplifier is harmless)


----------



## AppleheadMay

EsaT said:


> They should be listened exactly in stereo without any kind effect processings to avoid messing spatial cues.
> (neutral amplifier is harmless)



Noted, will give it a try over the weekend.


----------



## PurpleAngel

MichaelJames99 said:


> Im confused.  The Toshiba doesnt have a Bitstream/Dolby Digital option.  Only PCM or Bitstream.
> So I assume you are saying I should set all devices below to Bitstream?
> On the DirectTV receiver, it just has the option to turn Dolby Digital ON or OFF. If I have it ON, I assume its sending the already decoded surround to the DSS2 and Mixamp, right?
> On the F7500, I should set the output to PCM, Bitstream (Unprocessed..reciever decodes), Bitstream (reencoded to DTS), or Bitstream (reencoded to Dolby Digital)?
> Toshiba XA-2 HD DVD Player.. Digital Out SPDIF to PCM or Bitstream?


So, with the Toshiba, use Bitstream, if you want more then 2.0 channels of (PCM) audio (Bitstream will carry up to 5.1 audio).
With the Direct TV, if you want to send more then 2.0 channel of audio, thru the optical, then set Dolby Digital to ON.
If set the Direct TV to Dolby Digital OFF, then only 2.0 channels (stereo audio), with pass thru optical.


----------



## MichaelJames99

PurpleAngel said:


> So, with the Toshiba, use Bitstream, if you want more then 2.0 channels of (PCM) audio (Bitstream will carry up to 5.1 audio).
> With the Direct TV, if you want to send more then 2.0 channel of audio, thru the optical, then set Dolby Digital to ON.
> If set the Direct TV to Dolby Digital OFF, then only 2.0 channels (stereo audio), with pass thru optical.


Thank you!


----------



## jincuteguy

Any new Surround sound DAC / Amp device coming out? The latest I heard was the Senn GSX 1000 / 1200, but they've been out a while ago.


----------



## Avean

I have the Sennheiser HD650's but wondering if i should just keep them for music and invest in Sennheiser GSP 350 which comes with virtual surround software. I guess its the same as the one used in GSX 1000? What you guys think? Would i sacrifice alot of sound quality by dropping the HD650's? 
It just seem to be the easiest way to get a good set of headphones with Sennheisers good surround software.


----------



## pietcux

Avean said:


> I have the Sennheiser HD650's but wondering if i should just keep them for music and invest in Sennheiser GSP 350 which comes with virtual surround software. I guess its the same as the one used in GSX 1000? What you guys think? Would i sacrifice alot of sound quality by dropping the HD650's?
> It just seem to be the easiest way to get a good set of headphones with Sennheisers good surround software.


The good thing about the Sennheiser headsets to me is the mic. It has decent sound quality, only records your voice and mutes when moved out of the way. If you need the mic, go get it. If not, you could try sonic for Windows, which is included in Windows 10. I find it equal to the GSX1000 solution and it will give you height and depths cues from sources that provide them. The HD650 sounds better like the GSP  350 for music for sure. I will receive the new GSP600 tomorrow. Let's see how it sounds compared to my game one and the HD650.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Razer Seiren X + HD700 : FTW!  
But if you want an all in one headset with better quality go for HD588SR,CS or HD599. 
They have a mic in teh cable that is nearly as good as the one found on most headsets.
Those headset mics don't beat a desktop mic though.


----------



## Avean

pietcux said:


> The good thing about the Sennheiser headsets to me is the mic. It has decent sound quality, only records your voice and mutes when moved out of the way. If you need the mic, go get it. If not, you could try sonic for Windows, which is included in Windows 10. I find it equal to the GSX1000 solution and it will give you height and depths cues from sources that provide them. The HD650 sounds better like the GSP  350 for music for sure. I will receive the new GSP600 tomorrow. Let's see how it sounds compared to my game one and the HD650.


Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones is actually the reason im planning to buy a new headset. They just dont work unless you are playing a game that presents a 5.1 or 7.1 signal which most games dont.
Also GSP 600 dont include the surround dongle from Sennheiser for some weird and odd reason.... no idea why. But GSP350 have it.  So i was thinking the GSP350 to get the virtual surround software from Sennheiser without getting the GSX1000.

Ive also had the Razer Seiren X which is an amazing microphone if you are playing from a quiet room. But if you have kids like me then it picks up everything in the room, its incredible sensitive but amazing quality.


----------



## pietcux

Avean said:


> Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones is actually the reason im planning to buy a new headset. They just dont work unless you are playing a game that presents a 5.1 or 7.1 signal which most games dont.
> Also GSP 600 dont include the surround dongle from Sennheiser for some weird and odd reason.... no idea why. But GSP350 have it.  So i was thinking the GSP350 to get the virtual surround software from Sennheiser without getting the GSX1000.
> 
> Ive also had the Razer Seiren X which is an amazing microphone if you are playing from a quiet room. But if you have kids like me then it picks up everything in the room, its incredible sensitive but amazing quality.


We have this discussion ongoing forever in the GSX1000 thread, does Atmos or Sonic for Windows work properly when the games or the control panel for playback devices only show stereo. For me it works very good, no matter if i read stereo or 7.1, most games have multy channel, and the Windows software takes it to create a VSS downmix to two channel, as your headphone has two channel only. When you use this, you can keep your HD650, it is a very good gaming can. 
The GSP600 does not have this dongle, because pro gamers play in plain stereo. They would not buy the such dongled can. There will probably be a different version with the dongle later.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Razer Seiren X + HD700 : FTW!
> But if you want an all in one headset with better quality go for HD588SR,CS or HD599.
> They have a mic in teh cable that is nearly as good as the one found on most headsets.
> Those headset mics don't beat a desktop mic though.


The headset micros are good for voice over, not for recording Hifi stuff, that is true. They have a limited frequency range on purpose I think. But honestly they are conveniant to me.


----------



## jagardaniel (Feb 4, 2018)

Hi! First of all, thanks for a great thread! I'm also looking for a new pair of headphones after using "gaming headsets" for many years. I still play a lot of FPS but it is starting to be less and less gaming and a little bit more music or movies. The problem is that I'm very very picky when it comes to comfort. I have a Sennheiser HD598 but they have always felt uncomfortable (I'm probably the only one in the world). Not tight but I have to adjust it all the time. Same thing with other headphones in the HD5xx-series I have tried. My friend has a pair of HD650 that I tried and they fit much much better but they were too "tight" and I couldn't wear them for more than a few minutes. I gave up the thought about them until I tried a more used pair in a shop. Great fit but without the "clamping" force. I was almost going to order them (I saw posts about how to "stretch" them) but then something happened. I accidentally tried a pair of HD700 and ohhh.... they were super comfortable. And then ohhh again when I saw the price. I also bought DT 990 (Edition, 250 ohm) recently but they also don't fit very well and I don't think it is because of the clamping. I can't really explain why. I will give them a little bit more time when I get my AMP/DAC though.

I have gone through many pages in the thread and another popular recommendation seems to be the AKG K712 and they are almost the same price as the DT 990 here in. How are they comfort-wise? I think it was AKG Q701 I tried in a shop but they sat very loose. But they could also have been used a lot. I have heard similar things about the AD-series from Audio-Technica and the comfort for us with smaller heads. Are there any other options that could be interesting and is someone picky like me and have found something they really like? I don't have an issue paying a little bit more if I know that it is something I like and are gonna use for several years. HD700 could therefore be an option (I saw that they are good for gaming because of the soundstage) but people seems to have very strong opinions about them, especially on reddit. And it would also feel like I spent a lot on them just because of the comfort.

Thanks!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Avean said:


> Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for Headphones is actually the reason im planning to buy a new headset. They just dont work unless you are playing a game that presents a 5.1 or 7.1 signal which most games dont.
> Also GSP 600 dont include the surround dongle from Sennheiser for some weird and odd reason.... no idea why. But GSP350 have it.  So i was thinking the GSP350 to get the virtual surround software from Sennheiser without getting the GSX1000.
> 
> Ive also had the Razer Seiren X which is an amazing microphone if you are playing from a quiet room. But if you have kids like me then it picks up everything in the room, its incredible sensitive but amazing quality.





pietcux said:


> The headset micros are good for voice over, not for recording Hifi stuff, that is true. They have a limited frequency range on purpose I think. But honestly they are conveniant to me.



The headset mics are indeed handy (if you need them to be near you all the time) and enough for gaming.
I usually game at my desk but when I game in front of the big screen I use a pair of cans like HD598CS (or SR if you want open) or HD599 (also open) which have a mic in the wire that is almost as good.
At my desk I used the Seiren before, recntly the Seiren X but sent it baxk to get the new Seiren Pro. For adding voice to video recordings or a screencast the Seirens (or some other dedicated mics) give a deeper and warmer sound to the voice, where as I found those gaming headsets (and mics on the wire) pretty nasal.

The difference for me is that it gives me a much better headphone sound. I tested the game One which I hear to be about the best gaming headset out there and the sound doesn't compare to a HD598/599 I use on the couch and surely not a HD700 at the desk,

But if you move around much a good headset is of course an option.


----------



## Avean

AppleheadMay said:


> The headset mics are indeed handy (if you need them to be near you all the time) and enough for gaming.
> The difference for me is that it gives me a much better headphone sound. I tested the game One which I hear to be about the best gaming headset out there and the sound doesn't compare to a HD598/599 I use on the couch and surely not a HD700 at the desk,



Yeah i think i will keep my HD650's. I highly doubt a gamer headset will reach that level of sound quality. I was thinking i really needed virtual surround but maybe its just better playing in plain stereo. There must be a reason why the new GSP600 from Sennheiser is stereo only as well.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Avean said:


> Yeah i think i will keep my HD650's. I highly doubt a gamer headset will reach that level of sound quality. I was thinking i really needed virtual surround but maybe its just better playing in plain stereo. There must be a reason why the new GSP600 from Sennheiser is stereo only as well.



Why not connect it to a Senn GSX 1000 or SoundBlaster X7 (better)? You'll have it all then ...
And indeed, the HD650 is going to give you much better sound than those gaming headsets.
But if you want a more spatial sound a HD700 is a marvel. I got one for 440€ off Amazon.


----------



## dakanao

I ordered the HD 579 to use them for gaming. They're said to be very similar to the HD 598, only with less grain and tighter, more extended and more emphasized bass


----------



## Avean

AppleheadMay said:


> Why not connect it to a Senn GSX 1000 or SoundBlaster X7 (better)? You'll have it all then ...
> And indeed, the HD650 is going to give you much better sound than those gaming headsets.
> But if you want a more spatial sound a HD700 is a marvel. I got one for 440€ off Amazon.



GSX1000 only supports 150 ohm headsets. Right now im using a Asus Essence STX card which supports up to 600ohm.
X7 dont have that superior virtual surround that Sennheiser has, so its better to just stay with the Essence card.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Avean said:


> GSX1000 only supports 150 ohm headsets. Right now im using a Asus Essence STX card which supports up to 600ohm.
> X7 dont have that superior virtual surround that Sennheiser has, so its better to just stay with the Essence card.



And how many do you think there are that plen to use 600 ohm phones for gaming with a little surround amp?
An HD700 for example is only rated 500 ohm.

And I think many people won't agree the GSX is better than the X7.


----------



## Avean

AppleheadMay said:


> And how many do you think there are that plen to use 600 ohm phones for gaming with a little surround amp?
> An HD700 for example is only rated 500 ohm.
> 
> And I think many people won't agree the GSX is better than the X7.



My point is that if im going for virtual surround i want the very best which many agree upon, is the software that comes with the GSX 1000. The ones that comes with Asus (Dolby Headphone) and Creative X7 (CMSS3D) is bad in my opinion. They add too much reverb and effects on the sound while Sennheiser is very neutral and flat. Thats why its so good.
Cant combine that amp with my headphones right now cause its not good enough. My only choice is to either get a lower requirement studio headphone or the GSP350 headset from Sennheiser which includes the surround module so u can use the VSS software.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> And how many do you think there are that plen to use 600 ohm phones for gaming with a little surround amp?
> An HD700 for example is only rated 500 ohm.
> 
> And I think many people won't agree the GSX is better than the X7.


Isn't the HD700 rated 150 Ohm like my HD660S, as they share the driver?


----------



## pietcux

Avean said:


> My point is that if im going for virtual surround i want the very best which many agree upon, is the software that comes with the GSX 1000. The ones that comes with Asus (Dolby Headphone) and Creative X7 (CMSS3D) is bad in my opinion. They add too much reverb and effects on the sound while Sennheiser is very neutral and flat. Thats why its so good.
> Cant combine that amp with my headphones right now cause its not good enough. My only choice is to either get a lower requirement studio headphone or the GSP350 headset from Sennheiser which includes the surround module so u can use the VSS software.


Just played some Wildlands with the HD650 on the GSX1000 to test how it sounds and which volume level it needs. 7.1 active on the GSX1000 and in W10 playback device settings.  Volume was on 48 out of 100. I worked fine overall, the VSS was very good and convincing. So you could do it, keep the HD600 and buy the GSX1000.


----------



## Avean

pietcux said:


> Just played some Wildlands with the HD650 on the GSX1000 to test how it sounds and which volume level it needs. 7.1 active on the GSX1000 and in W10 playback device settings.  Volume was on 48 out of 100. I worked fine overall, the VSS was very good and convincing. So you could do it, keep the HD600 and buy the GSX1000.



Ok that is interesting! Nice! Will check out GSX1000 afterall then.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


> Isn't the HD700 rated 150 Ohm like my HD660S, as they share the driver?



That's what I meant but the forum changed what I typed ... 
Either that or I made a little typo.


----------



## Fegefeuer

pietcux said:


> I will receive the new GSP600 tomorrow. Let's see how it sounds compared to my game one and the HD650.



Cool. Wann erzählsch uns wie des Headset isch?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> Cool. Wann erzählsch uns wie des Headset isch?



+1 Curious as well to hear some more impressions specificall vs the Game One and HD650.
I looked into this a few weeks ago and what I could find was mostly negative: sound not as good as the Game One and terrible comfort.
That's just what I could find one the web though, haven't heard these myself but I did try out the Game One for a few days and I'm very familiar with the sound of any HD6xx can, I have them all.


----------



## pietcux

Probably tonight. UPS is still inbound, waiting.....


----------



## AppleheadMay

Looking forward to your first impressions!


----------



## pietcux

Oh no, it was only the GSA 50 free of charge headset hanger, lol....


----------



## AppleheadMay

Oh?
confused ... you’re not getting the GSp 600?


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Oh?
> confused ... you’re not getting the GSp 600?


I am getting the GSP 600, but today I only received the present for early customers in form of the headset hanger. I thought it was already the headset, but no only the free giveaway hanger.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


> I am getting the GSP 600, but today I only received the present for early customers in form of the headset hanger. I thought it was already the headset, but no only the free giveaway hanger.



LoL!
That's a bummer!


----------



## pietcux

HardwareCanucks review is out:


----------



## Fegefeuer

Looking forward to your comparison. As usual the youtube comments are full of people who don't own it and just defend their current headphone in their "comparison". Nothing of value.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> LoL!
> That's a bummer!


So now I have the tracking for the headset. It will arrive tomorrow in the office.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


> So now I have the tracking for the headset. It will arrive tomorrow in the office.



Careful, could be the cable!  ;P


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Careful, could be the cable!  ;P


No, this is what they promise (in German):

Hiermit bestätigen wir Ihnen, dass Ihre Bestellung versandt wurde.
Produkt-SKU    Produktname    Bestellmenge    Versandmenge    Versandmenge    Gesamtbetrag
507263             *GSP 600 *                1                            1                          1                   249,00 EUR

And it is exactly what I wanted to read.


----------



## pietcux




----------



## AppleheadMay

Congrats! Now how are they?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Let's play Wildlands some time, Pietcux. Wenn'd willsch, denn I würd scho gern.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Congrats! Now how are they?


I can only test them with music right now. They are not bass heavy, but show a very civilized bass out of the box. They are much brighter than expected,  need to give them much more time. But I like what I hear. They do not sound closed anyhow. And the build quality is outstanding. The comfort is very good. Test them with Yello TOY right now.


----------



## pietcux

Fegefeuer said:


> Let's play Wildlands some time, Pietcux. Wenn'd willsch, denn I würd scho gern.


I play only the story mode single or in coop. I need a healthy respawn every now and then you know and at 57 I am not the fastest anymore. I will contact you tonight about it.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Feb 7, 2018)

I also only play the campaign and I'm very chillig about as I enjoy the landscape, scenery and atmosphere. Not a competitive player since ages.

I wish Wildlands and UBI games in general had a better sound mix, like DICE games for instance or Sony exclusives.


----------



## strokerace

Haven't been here in a while, but after spending nearly 2 years with the Skullcandy SLYR I'm starting to get that itch again. Is there anything in the current market with a similar sound signature but perhaps improved on the SLYR's shortcomings? I don't need a mic, but maybe something more comfortable (for a bigger head) or isolating (the pads are slightly too small to be circumaural) or portable/folding, or even wireless?

I really love these headphones and they were such a bargain at $24 used on amazon (came shrink wrapped with no accessories, just the headset). The mechanism that activates/deactivates the mic when you swing it up or down was also messed up.

In comparison my HD681's sound too bright and needs EQ for me to enjoy it as much as the SLYR. Furthermore, the Denon D2000 and Beyer DT-990 with my little Fiio E7 were a little too boring and probably needed a better amp but I didn't want to go down that route so I had to sell them.


----------



## pietcux (Feb 8, 2018)

Sennheiser GSP 600 short first summary:

Comfort and fit
It is a comfortable headset but not for the largest heads. On most of my headphones I extend to notch 7 or 8. SONY Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic. On this one I have to extend as far as possible and to reduce the clamp to the lowest position. Then the fit is medium tight and comfy. The earpads on the other hand fit my rather large earlobes perfectly. They are among the best I ever had.


Sound with music
Not my cup of tea, these have good and deep but unpronounced bass, good probably slightly recessed mids and a very pronounced treble, that makes my ears ring. Probably a peak on the wrong frequency. Seems to get better with burn in though.

Sound in games
Had only 15 minutes in Wildlands so far, sounded very good with the GSX1000. This needs to be further evaluated, need much more playtime.

Final words
 I am burning the GSP 600 in right now and enjoy the HD660S instead. If the treble doesn't get better, this can will be returned to Sennheiser. [/SIZE]


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks for your impressions!
Not too much pressure on top of the head with that kind of headband?


----------



## DCB305

How do the GS600’s compare to the Game  Ones or PC360’s...if you have any experience with those?


----------



## lenroot77

I’ve read a few places that the GSP600 is a direct replacement for the Game Zero. The big question for me is when will the open back Game One replacement be announced???


----------



## DCB305

lenroot77 said:


> I’ve read a few places that the GSP600 is a direct replacement for the Game Zero. The big question for me is when will the open back Game One replacement be announced???


Agreed, where are the open back’s! 


So do these have any relation to HD 650’s or something?


----------



## pietcux

lenroot77 said:


> I’ve read a few places that the GSP600 is a direct replacement for the Game Zero. The big question for me is when will the open back Game One replacement be announced???


In the documents that come with the GSP 600, there is an open back GSP 500 mentioned, Hardware Canucks also show a box with GSP 500 written on in their CES video obout the GSP 600. Somewhere in the middle for a fraction of a second.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks for your impressions!
> Not too much pressure on top of the head with that kind of headband?


The comfort is very good, no pressure on the top of my head. As I said I have the headband fully extended and the pressure sliders on minimum. Especially the earpads are epic.


----------



## pietcux

DCB305 said:


> How do the GS600’s compare to the Game  Ones or PC360’s...if you have any experience with those?


Yes I have the game one. The comfort is better, the bass is better and the treble are hotter. These closed backs have the same soundstage as the open backs game one.


----------



## pietcux

Today I was able to fix the hot treble. I have some HD650 VEIL lying around (HD650 foam disks for driver covering), stuffed them inside the GSP 600 pads covering the driver and the inside of the pads and e voila I have a very capable can for music listening without fatigue.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Good to hear about the comfort, that was my biggest concern with the radical new style headband.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Good to hear about the comfort, that was my biggest concern with the radical new style headband.


Have the GSP 600 on in the office today, the comfort is good for hours and the treble are smoothening somehow, they lost their edginess nearly completely.


----------



## Madkap (Feb 9, 2018)

Hello everyone, I haven't been here in a while and I'm out of the loop. What would you guys recommend as an upgrade for the Sound Blaster Recon3D? I mostly do PC gaming now so I really don't need something with console compatibility. I have some ideas of what I can get but I would appreciate some suggestions


----------



## AppleheadMay

My vote would be the X7.


----------



## TeeReQs

X7 would be a good step up, especially if you like Creative's VSS.


----------



## Paul Graham

If they haven't already been mentioned, I highly recommend the HyperX Cloud II. 
I also have the Steelseries Arctis 7 and Logitech G633 Artemis Spectrums and the Cloud II's have rapidly become my Go-To Cans for gaming!


----------



## Madkap

AppleheadMay said:


> My vote would be the X7.





TeeReQs said:


> X7 would be a good step up, especially if you like Creative's VSS.



I read some mixed reviews on the build quality of the X7 and seeing that's $300, I'm not sure. For reference I have a pair of Fidelio X2's.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I must have missed those reviews but if I was looking for surround gaming and didn't have a Realiser coming in the X7 and GSX 1000 would be on my radar.
I heard the X7 and liked it, I didn't hear the GHSX but from what I read the X7 is a class higher.
The X7 and X7 LE are available on Massdrop now.


----------



## TeeReQs

Madkap said:


> I read some mixed reviews on the build quality of the X7 and seeing that's $300, I'm not sure. For reference I have a pair of Fidelio X2's.



What build quality issues did you read about? Mine has been solid for the past year. Use it almost everyday. If you want an all in one unit it's worth the price of admission. Especially if you play on console and PC, it makes things simple as everything is plugged into one central hub.


----------



## AxelCloris

AppleheadMay said:


> I heard the X7 and liked it, I didn't hear the GHSX but from what I read the X7 is a class higher.


I wouldn't call the X7 a class higher than the GSX, but it's hands down a more featured and well-rounded device. On sound processing alone, I prefer the Sennheiser. When it comes to features and flexibility, the X7 blows the GSX out of the water. Since the GSX only accepts USB input it's quite limiting, while the X7 has USB, optical, bluetooth, and analog inputs. The speaker outputs on the X7 are also a very welcome edition if you have passive monitors. I think the built-in headphone stand is pretty weak and would never use it, but that's personal preference. The X7 will do better with more demanding headphones, but if you're using an efficient headphone or headset either will work well. I'd say go with the device that best suits your needs.


----------



## TeeReQs

@AxelCloris Pretty much nailed it. I haven't tried the GSX, but hear the sound processing is great. You can just do more with the X7, if you are able to utilize all of it's features. I use the built in headphone holder, but it is a bit flimsy. Works well for holding HD598's, but heavier cans could be problematic.


----------



## pietcux

TeeReQs said:


> @AxelCloris Pretty much nailed it. I haven't tried the GSX, but hear the sound processing is great. You can just do more with the X7, if you are able to utilize all of it's features. I use the built in headphone holder, but it is a bit flimsy. Works well for holding HD598's, but heavier cans could be problematic.


As a PC gamer, the GSX is all I need with an efficient can or headset. Again for gaming. On CES Sennheiser presented a sound bar with Atmos capabilities. I hope they will bring a GSX like device with their own 3D audio algorithm and a better amp section in the future. The GSX might be their first step into that direction only, let's see.


----------



## Madkap

The GSX 1000 looks like a good option and it's cheaper than the X7, and to be honest I'm not too audio savy to use something fancy like the X7.


----------



## AxelCloris

For gaming, the GSX is my go-to on PC and I use a Mixamp 5.8 Wireless for my PS4. The X7 is awesome, but I personally wouldn't end up using a lot of the features because I have other devices that perform those functions already in my home theater. If I didn't already have everything, I could use the X7 as a centerpiece and connect it to my TV via optical, hook up speakers, and have a damned solid entertainment system. Bluetooth from the phone, streaming from my Apple TV and PS4, surround processing for headphones... it's a fricking Swiss Army knife.

My personal thought: if you ever plan to add speakers, spend the little extra on the LE. Same goes for using IEMs. Otherwise, the normal X7 will fit most needs.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Did anyone try the GSX 1000 with the HD 700?
Enough power?


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Did anyone try the GSX 1000 with the HD 700?
> Enough power?


I tested it with the HD660S which has the same specs as the HD700. My volume is set to 30 of 100 compared the new GSP 600 runs on 22 of 100. For gaming it is absolutely ok.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Great! Should be useable then.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Just got me a GSX 1000 for 169€ from Amazon Germany. Nice price!


----------



## Fegefeuer (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm using the GSX preset of EQ APO/HeSuVi and it's actually amazing what it does, same for the SBX preset. Using a Xonar U3 set to 7.1 with everything off, optical to my DAC. You can change to DHP, DA, DTS HPX and many more with just a click.


----------



## PurpleAngel

I own the Beyer T90 headphones, but I'm not into FPS gaming.
How do other owners of the T90 like the headphone for FPS gaming?


----------



## halcyon

AppleheadMay said:


> SB is coming with a Realiser like product as well. I wonder how it will compare.
> Will take a look at that G5, thanks.



Interesting, where did you read this? Is there any more information forthcoming at this point?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Creative Super X-Fi Headphone Audio Holograph

Do a search for this on Google, you’ll find a bunch. Was on CES it seems.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Heh, just noticed there’s even a HF thread for it. 
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/creative-super-x-fi-headphone-holography.869663/


----------



## AppleheadMay

If anyone is looking for great gaming headphones at a very nice price, there's a pair for sale here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-sennheiser-hd700-brand-new-eu.871685/
Damn hard to beat at that price and though the HD700 got a lot of negativity for music these are just awesome for gaming.
Too bad I just bought a new pair or I'd grab them.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 18, 2018)

I realised that resistance is futile so I stopped resisting and added one more Senn to my stable as I am collecting all the Senns that seem interesting to me anyway.
A headset this time. I heeded @pietcux recommendation who has both the GSP 600 and Game One and went for the GSP 600.
I hope I made the right choice between these two as I was set on the (closed) Game One at first and the review from MLE surely is very favorable.
It’s still a few weeks away from being back in stock so there’s still the possibility of changing.

@pietcux Have you been able to try them further with games?
How is the soundstage and positioning in your opinion?
How would you rate them in terms of competitive gaming (accurate positioning) and immersive gaming (fun) experience?
Any more comparisons with the Game One you can share?

@anyoneelse Who else has heard the GSP 600?

And damn, this is an intersting thread. If I’d be on holiday I’d read through the whole 2600+ pages!


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> I realised that resistance is futile so I stopped resisting and added one more Senn to my stable as I am collecting all the Senns that seem interesting to me anyway.
> A headset this time. I heeded @pietcux recommendation who has both the GSP 600 and Game One and went for the GSP 600.
> I hope I made the right choice between these two as I was set on the (closed) Game One at first and the review from MLE surely is very favorable.
> It’s still a few weeks away from being back in stock so there’s still the possibility of changing.
> ...


The Game One is open back, the GSP 600 is closed back. I was in need of a closed back, because my wife was annoyed by gaming noise, even through closed doors. I wanted to go for the Game Zero then, but the GSP 600 was announced just in time so I went that route. I played same MOH today using the GSX1000 as source set to 7.1.I find the GSP sound as open as the Game One, at least with surround activated. 
So the games:
MOH very immersive and quite accurate BTW, both Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic sound much worse than the Sennheiser GSX 1000 in this game.
GRWildlands very good sense of positioning
Titan Fall 2 campaign well done Respawn Entertainment and Sennheiser, the sound is mindblowing, especially all very low noises related to the interaction and action with the Titans..
Crysis 3 Very good, the immersion is very good, the graphics are a little better than the sound
COD Black Ops 3 very accurate and immersive
COD MW remaster quite accurate, the sound was not remastered. 

Sound wise the Game Zero is not far behind, but the GSP600 is better, especially regarding bass, here the GSP is optimal, deep powerfull but not overpowered. I have cans which have more of it....


----------



## AppleheadMay

Sorry, that's what I meant, Game Zero, the closed one. I always mix them up.
But seen you find the GSP 600 better than both the Game headphones and your impressions with these games I'll stick with my order of the GSP 600 then.
Thanks for your answer!


----------



## random63

It's been a while since any comment has posted, but maybe I can get a reply.

Your guide is amazing, but since I only owned "gaming headsets" until now I have nothing to compare it with.
I was looking at the Beyer DT990 Pro (in combo with an Antlion Modmic V4). However I don't know anything about amplifiers.

Do I need one or 2 (in serie)? The Fiio E10K is affordable, but will it be enough to use voice chat and game?
Or Am I wasting cash on a too expensive setup if it's only for gaming with mic.


----------



## pietcux (Feb 19, 2018)

random63 said:


> It's been a while since any comment has posted, but maybe I can get a reply.
> 
> Your guide is amazing, but since I only owned "gaming headsets" until now I have nothing to compare it with.
> I was looking at the Beyer DT990 Pro (in combo with an Antlion Modmic V4). However I don't know anything about amplifiers.
> ...


The Sennheiser Gaming Headsets are serios stuff compared to the typical "Gaming" products out there. You could look at the GSP 300 for starters. They sound very good already. I find the built in mic simply more convenient than Headphone and mic separate. And they will run from your mainboard without any problem.


----------



## Azurik (Feb 19, 2018)

Shame Sennheiser is limiting the GSX to PC only. I find their VSS miles ahead of Dolby headphone or DTS headphone X.

I would love a GSX for consoles along with the GSP600. I know I can just plug the Sennheisers in to the 3.5 jack but that would be a disgrace 

Only competition they would have is Astro (which dropped the ball in quality recently) and Turtle Beach (never considered them to be quality). Yes, soundblaster’s x7, g5 etc work with consoles but I think Sennheiser has money waiting in the console game and would easily became leaders (although their stuff is pricey).


----------



## pietcux

Azurik said:


> Shame Sennheiser is limiting the GSX to PC only. I find their VSS miles ahead of Dolby headphone or DTS headphone X.
> 
> I would love a GSX for consoles along with the GSP600. I know I can just plug the Sennheisers in to the 3.5 jack but that would be a disgrace
> 
> Only competition they would have is Astro (which dropped the ball in quality recently) and Turtle Beach (never considered them to be quality). Yes, soundblaster’s x7, g5 etc work with consoles but I think Sennheiser has money waiting in the console game and would easily became leaders (although their stuff is pricey).


Yesterday I played Medal of Honor single player for the first time on W10 I think. First I tried Sonic for Windows, then Atmos via GSX1000 set to Stereo. Especially the voice over with the virtual team mates was hardly listenable to much reverb I think. Then switch to GSX1000 W10 set to 7.1 GSX set to 7.1, wow, so much better, so much clearer. Much better localisation of enemies. All with the GSP600 on btw.


----------



## Muldeberg (Feb 19, 2018)

Anyone using philips shp9500's for FPS games? (CSGO, BF 1, etc.)
And how do they feel?


----------



## LB Felipe

pietcux said:


> Yesterday I played Medal of Honor single player for the first time on W10 I think. First I tried Sonic for Windows, then Atmos via GSX1000 set to Stereo. Especially the voice over with the virtual team mates was hardly listenable to much reverb I think. Then switch to GSX1000 W10 set to 7.1 GSX set to 7.1, wow, so much better, so much clearer. Much better localisation of enemies. All with the GSP600 on btw.



Which of these do you suppose is better?
*beyerdynamic MMX 300 2ND GEN.
Sennheiser GSP 600*


----------



## pietcux

LB Felipe said:


> Which of these do you suppose is better?
> *beyerdynamic MMX 300 2ND GEN.
> Sennheiser GSP 600*


Sorry, I do not own the MMX. But I have some Beyerdynamic cans, so I think that the MMX is also a very good choice. As my earlobes are quite large, I prefer oval shaped earpieces/earpads. The round design of the Beyers are a bit problematic for longer listening sessions for me. So comfort wise I prefer the Sennheisers. And I love that swiveling the mic arm up mutes the mic. That is very handy at times.


----------



## kayan

Are there any decent wireless headphones for PC gaming? Preferably without a Mic or with a removable Mic? 

Budget under 150.


----------



## Yethal

My Focals arrived yesterday. I don't expect impressive gaming performance but boy, do they sound lovely. I'm a proper audiophool now.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice. What did you gain overall in comparison to what you used before? Do a mini review Yesl


----------



## Yethal (Feb 28, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> Nice. What did you gain overall in comparison to what you used before? Do a mini review Yesl


Compared to Shure SRH1840 that I used previously:

More bass (Shures were rather bass light, these are very neutral sounding)
Less brightness (especially appearent on the vocals)
More detail, separation and dynamics (not quite the Utopia level but pretty close)
Smaller soundstage (Shure had a very impressive soundstage, those are just decent)
Better comfort (Shure had this very thin headband that was uncomfortable to use for bald people, this didn't bother me back when I bought them since I had long hair back then but since I started shaving my head they got quite tiresome to use)
Great set of accessories (hard case, short minijack cable, long regular jack and long XLR)
If you're looking for an endgame set of headphones and are not bothered by average-sized soundstage totally go for them. And if you consider buying Elears, save up some more and buy Clears instead, the additional $500 is worth it.
I don't think I'll ever need to upgrade from these.
Although I do remember saying the same thing about Shures so who knows.


----------



## pietcux

Yethal said:


> Compared to Shure SRH1840 that I used previously:
> 
> More bass (Shures were rather bass light, these are very neutral sounding)
> Less brightness (especially appearent on the vocals)
> ...



Just had an impressive gaming session with @Fegefeuer . We did some Wildlands together.  Me using the brandnew Sennheiser GSP 1000 and the GTX 1000 set to 7.1. The GSP 600 is the best sounding and most comfortable headphone for gaming that I came across so far. Especially the earpads help that the headset disappears after some time, you just forget that you wear it. Voice over and sound whoring is fantastic.


----------



## Evshrug

You guys might find this... interesting:
https://www.playstation.com/en-au/g...s---features/ps4--remote-play-for-pc-and-mac/

Old news for everybody?


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> You guys might find this... interesting:
> https://www.playstation.com/en-au/g...s---features/ps4--remote-play-for-pc-and-mac/
> 
> Old news for everybody?


A lil bit.
There's also an Android version that works quite well if used together with a clip mount.


----------



## Azurik

Just had a reply on twitter from Sennheiser in regards to bringing their GSX series to consoles (probably means nothing):

Hi there,
so I talked to one of our Product Managers.
The thing is yes, we are working on it, but it's currently not a priority.
the problem is though that the PS4 does not allow 7.1 over USB (and it does not do 7.1 in general only 5.1) you would need an optical input to achieve that which makes things quiet a bit more complicated.
I hope this generally answers your question a bit more in detail.
Best,
Monika


----------



## Yethal

Azurik said:


> Just had a reply on twitter from Sennheiser in regards to bringing their GSX series to consoles (probably means nothing):
> 
> Hi there,
> so I talked to one of our Product Managers.
> ...


It does do 7.1 over hdmi which would be preferred input over optical.


----------



## Azurik

That's was my reply to them


----------



## Evshrug

Azurik said:


> Just had a reply on twitter from Sennheiser in regards to bringing their GSX series to consoles (probably means nothing):
> 
> Hi there,
> so I talked to one of our Product Managers.
> ...



The other thing is royalty fees (per device) to Sony and/or Microsoft, since they would both need drivers and consoles are locked systems. Optical could solve things like in the past, but then they would need an entirely new logic board in the GSX and pay Dolby or DTS a licensing fee (which may be less than M$ and Sony, I don’t know).


----------



## Azurik

Evshrug said:


> The other thing is royalty fees (per device) to Sony and/or Microsoft, since they would both need drivers and consoles are locked systems. Optical could solve things like in the past, but then they would need an entirely new logic board in the GSX and pay Dolby or DTS a licensing fee (which may be less than M$ and Sony, I don’t know).




I know there would be fees to pay but what if they came up with a HDMI GSX (with 4K and HDR passthrough of course ) that uses 7.1 pcm uncompressed. As this is neither a Dolby/ DTS signal, would there still be fees


----------



## Yethal

Azurik said:


> I know there would be fees to pay but what if they came up with a HDMI GSX (with 4K and HDR passthrough of course ) that uses 7.1 pcm uncompressed. As this is neither a Dolby/ DTS signal, would there still be fees


HDMI consortium charges for usage of HDMI so probably yeah.


----------



## Pairzilla

Does anyone game with the Senn 6xx? If so are they worth gaming with ?


----------



## jagardaniel (Mar 1, 2018)

Pairzilla said:


> Does anyone game with the Senn 6xx? If so are they worth gaming with ?


I did ask the same question and the common answer seems to be that they aren't recommended for gaming. I don't know much about sound and headphones but I do play a lot of FPS games and have been doing so for over 16 years. Also on a more "competitive" level. I ordered home both HD650 and HD700 so I could try them out. I played a few rounds CS:GO and Battalion 1944 with each pair and I had no issues at all pinpointing footsteps or hear how far/close people where with HD650. So I don't agree with people saying that gaming with HD650 will give you a disadvantage. Not at all. However I do think people find the HD700 to sound "better". I don't know the English word to describe it, but better in a more effectful(?) way. Probably because it has more bass and a larger soundstage. So I would guess that HD700 sounds better for most people. But not in a way that it gives you an advantage in-game over a HD650. You will still hear what you need to hear. But I only care about the practical part of the audio when I play and I'm also that guy that set all graphic settings to low for max performance. Also remember that is is my personal opinion so I would search around to see what other people think.


I ended up sending back both pairs. I could not stand the HD650 death grip even if I bent the metal part of the headband and stretched them over a pillow for a few nights. I would have kept them otherwise since I really like how they sounded. And HD700 because I realized that it was a lot of money when I don't care that much about "audio quality". Also not a big fan of the material they are using for the headband and the ear...things. I still haven't found the pair of headphones I'm looking after. I tried AKG K712 as well but they were too loose (I have a pretty narrow/small head) and also a pair of DT990 but they have a little bit too much bass for me and they don't fit very good. I sold a HD598 that I didn't use (because of comfort - suprise!) but I'm actually thinking about trying out HD599 again and see if the new headband does help. I think HD599 is close to what I'm looking for actually.


----------



## AxelCloris

Pairzilla said:


> Does anyone game with the Senn 6xx? If so are they worth gaming with ?


The HD 6XX is an HD 650, and MLE has a review of the HD 650 on the first page.


----------



## pietcux

AxelCloris said:


> The HD 6XX is an HD 650, and MLE has a review of the HD 650 on the first page.


A lot of gamers use the HD600/650 for gaming. Me too. It is very good for long sessions. And it works good with virtual surround.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


> A lot of gamers use the HD600/650 for gaming. Me too. It is very good for long sessions. And it works good with virtual surround.



Disregarding price, don’t you find the 6 series more suited for music and 7 and 8 better for gaming?
Of course, the 8 for both music and gaming.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Disregarding price, don’t you find the 6 series more suited for music and 7 and 8 better for gaming?
> Of course, the 8 for both music and gaming.


5 series was far better for gaming than the 6 series and was cheaper


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> 5 series was far better for gaming than the 6 series and was cheaper


You mean the old (90s) or new 5 series?


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> You mean the old (90s) or new 5 series?


The 5X8 and 5X9 series.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Those are the new series, the old series milestones were the 540, 560 and 580 Precision, basically the predecessors of the 6 series.
These are indeed nice for gaming and they do well for music as well, I have the 598CS and 599 now but I had earlier ones before.
I'd prefer them a little over the 6 series for gaming as well. For music the 6 series are in a very diffferent league though.


----------



## pietcux (Mar 3, 2018)

AppleheadMay said:


> Disregarding price, don’t you find the 6 series more suited for music and 7 and 8 better for gaming?
> Of course, the 8 for both music and gaming.


Yes you are correct the imaging is better on the HD700/800. But only in stereo mode. Once virtual surround comes into play, imho the advantage of the bigger brothers gets eliminated. But as of today, I use the GSP 600. For 250 € you get a lot, including angled drivers a very good mic and very good imaging.


----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


> Yes you are correct the imaging is better on the HD700/800. But only in stereo mode. Once vitual surround comes into play, the advantage of the bigger brothers gets eliminated. But as of today, I use the GSP 600. For 250 € you get a lot, including angled drivers a very good mic and very good imagi



Yep, I have that one on preorder on your recommendation.


----------



## pietcux

Here is the new Sennheiser GSP 500 open headset:

Found a price of 199 GBP somewhere.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I paid 253€ from a local webshop, couldn't really find it cheap.
Chose them over Amazon since they'd have it sooner.


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> I paid 253€ from a local webshop, couldn't really find it cheap.
> Chose them over Amazon since they'd have it sooner.


Here is a shop:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/senn...gaming-headset-for-pc-ps4-xbox-sp-098-sn.html
The GSP 600 is 219 GBP there. but also pre order only. 
How the hell did I get my hands on the GSP 600 so early?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Indeed, how the hell did you?


----------



## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> Indeed, how the hell did you?


I saw the video from Hardwarecanuks, was all hooked up and checked Sennheiser.de few times a day. Once they became available, I placed my order. Btw, I got a free of charge headphone hanger on tip this way. Then I called the shop several times and got them very early. Let's see how this works with the GSP 500....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Those new Senns look sweet.

I'm itching to try something new. But man I think I have more Senns than any other company on my guide, lol.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Those new Senns look sweet.
> 
> I'm itching to try something new. But man I think I have more Senns than any other company on my guide, lol.


Getting that itch to get back into the game? We all gladly welcome it! I'm also intrigued by the GSP 500 rumors. Going to be interesting pairing a GSP headset with the GSX 1200.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Those new Senns look sweet.
> 
> I'm itching to try something new. But man I think I have more Senns than any other company on my guide, lol.



Keep the Senns coming, I collect them!


----------



## pietcux




----------



## AppleheadMay

pietcux said:


>



Yeah, rub it in!  ;P
No, seriously, they look nice together.


----------



## AxelCloris (Mar 5, 2018)

pietcux said:


>


I'd like to get some head time with that combo. Not gonna lie, kinda jealous over here. 

Edit: removed my question because it was dumb and I answered it myself after thinking for a moment. In related news, I like using the sidetone function on the GSX 1200 with closed headsets.


----------



## TeeReQs

Same here!


----------



## pietcux

AxelCloris said:


> I'd like to get some head time with that combo. Not gonna lie, kinda jealous over here.
> 
> Edit: removed my question because it was dumb and I answered it myself after thinking for a moment. In related news, I like using the sidetone function on the GSX 1200 with closed headsets.


Yes the sidetone is very important. I did a Skype business meet with these cans in my office without that option, ones own voice sounds muffled and off. i cannot recommend that.


----------



## AxelCloris

pietcux said:


> Yes the sidetone is very important. I did a Skype business meet with these cans in my office without that option, ones own voice sounds muffled and off. i cannot recommend that.


Yup. The occlusion effect can be extremely irritating to those who are annoyed by it, and a complete non-issue for those who aren't. The GSX's sidetone helps soften the effect. I don't like using a closed headset if I can't mix my mic into the audio. Without it, my voice (in my head) can sound boomy, hollow, echoey, or like you said, muffled. Sidetone/live monitoring FTW!


----------



## Sennheiser (Mar 7, 2018)

AxelCloris said:


> I'd like to get some head time with that combo. Not gonna lie, kinda jealous over here.
> 
> In related news, I like using the sidetone function on the GSX 1200 with closed headsets.



Don’t you fret: Ideas have been brewing for months, just a few puzzle pieces left


----------



## Yethal

Sennheiser said:


> Don’t you fret: Ideas were brewing last September, just a few puzzle pieces left


Wrong account Evs


----------



## pietcux

AxelCloris said:


> Yup. The occlusion effect can be extremely irritating to those who are annoyed by it, and a complete non-issue for those who aren't. The GSX's sidetone helps soften the effect. I don't like using a closed headset if I can't mix my mic into the audio. Without it, my voice (in my head) can sound boomy, hollow, echoey, or like you said, muffled. Sidetone/live monitoring FTW!


Just had an intense 3 hour session Wildlands>PC>GTX1000>GSP600, awesome sound, great comfort, much fun. 3 guys in my home one on internet. Great game, good beer and pizza.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm hurt. You didn't invite the whole group. All 30,000 of us.


----------



## Sennheiser

I teased with the account I meant to tease with


----------



## Sennheiser

pietcux said:


> Just had an intense 3 hour session Wildlands>PC>GTX1000>GSP600, awesome sound, great comfort, much fun. 3 guys in my home one on internet. Great game, good beer and pizza.



Sounds like a great time! Have you written a formal impression/review of the GSP 600 yet?


----------



## Yethal

Sennheiser said:


> I teased with the account I meant to tease with


Damn, now I'm going to overanalyze that last post to hell trying to figure out what the implied new product is.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> Damn, now I'm going to overanalyze that last post to hell trying to figure out what the implied new product is.


Based on what was said, the only outcome is this. There's no other possible answer. Also it will somehow involve beer.


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Based on what was said, the only outcome is this. There's no other possible answer. Also it will somehow involve beer.


Sounds like an intro to Schism


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm having the GSP 600 here as well but I can't get a good comfort out of it yet. The top of my skull hurts after a while and I've been playing around with the sliders. 
PC37X comfort is heavenly in comparison. As for sound: not impressed yet. Need to do further testings. Didn't encounter the hot treble pietcux was experiencing at the beginning though. 

Also, why is there no adapter to 6,3mm included?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 8, 2018)

DON'T EXPOSE THE MAN, Yethal. 

I have a few things brewing, so look forward to it, guys. Nothing 'written' yet, but expect some stuff sooner than later.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have a few things brewing...


Ahhhh, so that's how the beer's working into it.


----------



## pietcux

Fegefeuer said:


> I'm having the GSP 600 here as well but I can't get a good comfort out of it yet. The top of my skull hurts after a while and I've been playing around with the sliders.
> PC37X comfort is heavenly in comparison. As for sound: not impressed yet. Need to do further testings. Didn't encounter the hot treble pietcux was experiencing at the beginning though.
> 
> Also, why is there no adapter to 6,3mm included?


Hi there just let the sliders sit in their softest position and the earcups in their widest or lowest position. You seem to have a big skull like me, lol.
I do not miss the 6.3mm as I have more than enough of them.


----------



## raband

Not sure if it will help, but I found......

I've got a bit of a dip in my skull that most headphones seem to fit into and be comfy - like they're designed for it.

Thought that was normal - until I tried some cans that were meant to be ultra comfy, but hurt.

Once I changed to putting on the headphones via fitting them over the ears, rather than in the position the headband "slotted" - all was fixed.

Letting the headband find a position where it's secondary to making sure the earpieces feel right worked, and wasn't as much of a huge step as it felt like initially.


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## pietcux

raband said:


> Not sure if it will help, but I found......
> 
> I've got a bit of a dip in my skull that most headphones seem to fit into and be comfy - like they're designed for it.
> 
> ...


I think that I do that anyways. Never thought about it though.


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## Muldeberg

What do people think about the fostex t50rp mk3 headphones for gaming?


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## Mad Lust Envy

I was just sent a headset that is a variant of something I already reviewed, and I think by accident. I was actually expecting something I've wanted to review for YEARS and is like the last headset missing from all the higher end 'originals'. I think some of you will guess. Time to make some calls, this is definitely an error since a review of this would 100% be the same, since all that changed was an added microphone.


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## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was just sent a headset that is a variant of something I already reviewed, and I think by accident. I was actually expecting something I've wanted to review for YEARS and is like the last headset missing from all the higher end 'originals'. I think some of you will guess. Time to make some calls, this is definitely an error since a review of this would 100% be the same, since all that changed was an added microphone.


Is this headset made by a company which name starts with letters A and T?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 12, 2018)

Lmao nice try. Nah not them. After all the hate I've given on their 3D wings design, not sure they'd wanna send me anything.


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## AxelCloris

Don't get me started on those AT wings. That design is horrible. So glad they're moving away from them. The ATH-DSRxBT wireless and ATH-ADX5000 headbands are both far better options.


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## AppleheadMay (Mar 12, 2018)

What if I want to connect my GSX 1000 to my HDVA 600 headphone amp?
Would it be better to use the phones output or the speakers output?


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## pietcux

AppleheadMay said:


> What if I want to connect my GSX 1000 to my HDVA 600 headphone amp?
> Would it be better to use the phones output or the speakers output?


If you want to use the Sennheiser surround you can only use the headphone out.


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## AppleheadMay

Thanks, will try it!


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## Evshrug

Muldeberg said:


> What do people think about the fostex t50rp mk3 headphones for gaming?


Good isolation, hardest headphone to drive that I've ever had at home (More challenging than the 600 Ω DT 880, this headphone cries for a fairly strong amp), thin pads that depress and you can feel the hard cup plastic after only a few hours, but the driver has a lot of potential and those willing to put it into a better enclosure get a sound that punches well above the original. The Mark III improved on the comfort, so you might get away with it, but I still recommend an amp.




Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was just sent a headset that is a variant of something I already reviewed, and I think by accident. I was actually expecting something I've wanted to review for YEARS and is like the last headset missing from all the higher end 'originals'. I think some of you will guess. Time to make some calls, this is definitely an error since a review of this would 100% be the same, since all that changed was an added microphone.


So, the one you got is something you already reviewed, plus a microphone. Beyerdynamic MX 300? But no, since that's pretty much their only "gaming" headset and you say you were waiting for another headset... What's an "original" that has more than one headset?


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## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug said:


> So, the one you got is something you already reviewed, plus a microphone. Beyerdynamic MX 300? But no, since that's pretty much their only "gaming" headset and you say you were waiting for another headset... What's an "original" that has more than one headset?



Ding ding. Yeah, they sent me the Custom Game, which is the Custom Pro I already reviewed but with a mic, lol. And yes I'm expecting an MMX300. Finally, after so long. 

You'd think I'd have reviewed an MMX300 years ago. Well, considering the MMX300 has a newer variant compared to back in the day, perhaps it'll be something you guys might be interested in.


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## Evshrug (Mar 14, 2018)




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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2018)

Surprise guys! This is an early impression on a NOT finalized product. As such, I will not be adding it to the guide until I've reviewed the final product if/when that happens. I will however leave it here nevertheless. If you wanna know more, go to this thread:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-mobius-review-preview-head-fi-tv.874607/

I have posted the impressions there as well.

HERE IT IS. Again, this is a rough FIRST draft, and I will be editing it a bajillion times. Sound signature second part isn't even finished, but I'll get to it shortly. I will be fixing anything I find wrong as I proofread, but I wanted to get this out the gate. Absolutely no edits, first draft. I'm not kidding, there will be errors. I spent the better part of all night writing this, even though it's impressions of less than a week. I wasn't even mentally prepared to write this, but went ahead and started typing, and this is what came out. My reviews tend to be at least a few weeks of testing, but I think this is still useful.

the picture was taken at 3:30am with a broken phone, so don't judge it too harshly lol.

disclaimer: I was not paid off by anyone, and these are 100% reflecting my opinion of this headset. If anything sounds overly glowing or positive, it's because that is exactly how I feel about it. If I don't like something I 100% will decline to review or write up anything on it. I have already declined one headset very recently because it wasn't up to my expectation of quality. I will only spend time writing up on products I find worth looking into, and nothing less.

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*Audeze Mobius*








*Early Impressions*

First of many surprises, I do believe the Mobius is the world's first planarmagnetic "headset", world's first wireless/bluetooth planarmagnetic, and world's first internal headtracking planarmagnetic headphone. Audeze is swinging for the fences with as many buzzwords you can fit into one extremely well designed package.



*Build Quality:*

To begin with, the Mobius stands apart from any Audeze planar I've personally seen. I would've expected another classic Audeze headphone: formal, fancily-dressed, laden with wood, heaviest of weights, and utterly behemoth in size. Instead, the Mobius came dressed like one would expect of a properly engineered bluetooth headphone, not in any way typical of Audeze.

Durable-looking plastic is its main ingredient (which I have zero problems with, mind you), likely to keep costs down to hit a specific price point.


Headband:

A standard plastic headband with the bottom dressed in very plush, uber comfortable faux-leather in the center.

The size adjustment is fairly typical and akin to something you'd expect from Sennheiser, with a easy adjustment that clocks, but have no visible markings.


Cups:

The cups are oval-shaped (again akin to Sennheiser or Shure's offerings), with a fully enclosed outer shell that house the power button, mic on/off, and power led indicator on the left outer cup; nothing on the right cup, though internally, I believe houses the battery (good for up to 10 hours of wireless playtime).

The bottom of the left cup is absolutely packed with all the interface you'll ever need: volume slider, microphone volume slider, aux/3.5mm input jack, usb type c input (for it's charging and PC audio side of things), microphone jack, and 3D button.

If that wasn't enough for you, as of this prototype (subject to change), the 3D button is a shortcut for other functions:

one button press: re-centers the headtracking of 3D mode
long press: toggles 3D on/off
double tap: switches from USB, AUX, Bluetooth

The mic volume slider also has shortcuts (subject to change). Pressing down on the volume slider switches from:

7.1 audio: PC picks up the Mobius as a 7.1 sound device. Use this if gaming/media playback and want to utilize the virtual surround capabilities properly

Two channel: Standard, PC picks this up as 2 channel...surprise. 16bit/48khz.

High Res: High fidelity two channel playback in 24bit/96khz. 3D button capabilites are disabled in this mode (no virtual surround or headtracking features).

Single press followed by sliding the mic volume up or down will change EQ presets:

Default, Footsteps, Ballistics, Music, Racing, RPG, Flat

Default is the intended frequency response of the Mobius. The other presets are not finalized, and thus are subject to change. I haven't done any testing of the presets. ONLY Default.


The power button has shortcuts as well:

Long press when off: turns Mobius on
When on: long press: Bluetooth pairing mode
Holding it longer AFTER bluetooth pairing mode: turns the Mobius off


Last notes about cups:

The cups can lay flat for portable use/resting around the neck, and have enough swivel to fit any head shape.


Ear Pads:

While some of you may know I'm not the biggest fan of faux-leather pads, Audeze has managed to give the Mobius a very ample amount of padding while minimizing surface contact area. The end result is that the Mobius sits comfortably on the skin, with an oval-shape opening, keeping the ears from bottoming out and pressing onto the drivers or pressing up against the pad walls. I'd like the skin contact area to be lined in cloth, velour or something similar (like Hifiman's focus pads), but that's just me.


Cables:

The Mobius comes with 3 basic cables: 6ft USB C to USB A, 6ft USB C to USB C, and 3.5ft 3.5mm aux audio cable. Nothing particularly fancy.


Final Build Impressions:

While the Mobius isn't the hefty beast one would expect of Audeze, it is made of some generally durable plastics that shouldn't offend anyone. The Mobius looks like it can take some moderate abuse, though why would you abuse planarmagnetic goodness like this?



*Accessories:*

Aside from the cables mentioned above, you get a boom microphone attachment. At this point in time, I'm not certain the final version will look similar, as Audeze has told me the final version will have a different microphone. Whether the design is the same or not, I don't yet know.



*Comfort:*

Weight:

The Mobius is among the lightest planarmagnetic headphones I've personally tested, and weight is generally a non-issue. I believe it is around 350g (correct me if I'm wrong please), which isn't the lightest headphone, though definitely light for a planar. I feel the weight is distributed well, and shouldn't pose a problem for most people.

Headband:

Headbands are either hit or miss in general, but I feel the Mobius is definitely on the right side of things, with ample cushioning, with no hot spots or sore spots even after many hours of use.

Ear Pads:

As mentioned earlier, I'm not generally a fan of faux-leather ear pads, but the shape, depth, and minimal skin contact surface, paired with the ample cushioning, makes the Mobius' ear pads quite comfortable, and among the best faux-leather ear pads I've tested.

Clamp:

I'd say the clamp on the Mobius falls under 'moderate' pressure. If anything, this may be the only area in comfort I'd personally want improved, as I prefer less pressure in general. I can see moderate clamp potentially causing minor aches during long listening sessions. Clamp is a highly debatable subject, and can easily fall under personal preference.


Overall Comfort Impressions:

The Mobius is in a range of comfort I'd consider quite good, despite personal preference of less clamp. Outside of clamp, the comfort easily lands in the spectrum between very good and great. I don't see many people having a problem with the Mobius whatsoever in terms of comfort.



*Isolation/Leakage:*

It's been a considerable amount of time since I've last played with a closed headphone of any kind, but I'd say the noise leak and noise isolation are absolutely good enough for my use. I couldn't see the Mobius being a problem to use in a quiet room, or in a loud environment.



*Sound:*

Undoubtedly the most important factor: How does the Mobius sound? Surely a headset packed with so many features at a lower than typical Audeze price-points would have to compromise in sound a bit? Well, I'm happy to say that if they sacrificed somewhere to bring us the Mobius, I certainly can't say it's the sound.



*Bass:*

The bass on the Mobius is what I absolutely expect of Audeze: This is big boy bass. And not in the "bassheads, come out and play" type of way, though audiophilic bassheads may find solace here. The bass immediately reminds me of the classic LCD-2 Rev. 2 bass. It is big, meaty, and well present, in a way that only planars are capable of. It reaches as low as deemed possible without any protest, with the deepest of rumbles and omnipotence. It hits with absolute, resolute, authoritative impact. Decay is medium-fast, texture is rich, and despite it's boldness, is actually completely linear with the midrange, where there is little in the way of invasiveness.

There is a little bit of excess warmth in the lowest regions of male speech where it can sound a bit growly, but otherwise, the bass is here to play with the rest of the sound instead of dominating over it. That being said, make absolutely NO mistake: It will absolutely, undeniably hit you in the face. But that's when bass is called for and not whenever it feels like.

Doing frequency checks: I felt the presence even down to 25hz, with no degree of weakeness all the way to the midrange. The bass is intoxicating and meaty enough to satisfy all who love bass, unless you want dronish, one note affairs, or those who don't put bass as much importance as the midrange or upper end sparkle.

Quality: ****
Quantity: *****



*Midrange:*

Oh what a lovely, juicy, fluid midrange it is. The midrange is upfront and center, with a tonal quality as realistic as any I've heard. Easily amongst the very best midranges I've heard. It's absolutely wonderful. Male speech, as mentioned before can have an overactive lower octave, but only slightly. In general, everything about the midrange to me is lifelike and engrossing, with a focused presence. It just sounds...correct, to my ears.

Quality: ****
Quantity: ****



*Treble:*

You would think that despite having said how linear the curve seems to be on the Mobius, I've mentioned how meaty and impactful the bass is, and how focused, fluid, and lifelike the midrange is, leaving one to assume that the treble likely took a backseat, leaving the Mobius as a warm, overly smooth sounding headphone. Well, that simply isn't true. The treble is absolutely present and clean sounding, despite it not being _too_ highlighted. It maintains a very fine balance with the bass and midrange, where one would think the treble is basically on par with either. To my ears, the treble is quite present yet just a hint (A HINT) south of absolute neutrality. What I mean by that is that it's very close to complete balance with the bass and midranges, but has some cleverly tucked in regions that soften the impact of annoying treble ranges, and highlights the best regions that add clarity and sparkle, like 10khz.

One would say it's neutral treble and I wouldn't disagree. This absolutely is NOT the LCD2 of old. There is an undeniable treble presence here, and it's at a level that I'd consider incredibly well balanced. I'd say that had it not been for the strength of the bass on the Mobius, it would be a deadlock between all ranges. To my ears, the treble is just expertly balanced here. No glaring peaks, sibilance, or overly glossed over sections of stuffy, blanketed treble.

Quality: ****
Quantity: ***



*Soundstage:*

Stereo mode, 3D off:

Soundstage, as always is not something I pay particular attention to when using headphones in stereo (as opposed to when I use them with any form of virtual surround, which the Mobius DOES have as an option.) That being said, I review soundstages in their pure, untouched, stereo forms. Only two closed planars really surprised me in terms of soundstage: the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, and Ether C. The Mobius has good depth, good height, average width to my ears. I feel the Mobius has particularly excellent frontal projection, despite an average size soundstage typical of closed headphones and planars in general.

With the 3D surround on:

To say it transforms the soundscape, soundstage, and soundfield would be an understatement. More on this in the gaming section, and 3D button specific sections.



*Clarity:*

The Mobius has a decent amount of clarity, thanks to its very linear response, not masking any region outside softening a few treble ranges, though not ones that stifle perceived clarity.

The bass leaves the midrange well enough alone in the vast majority of examples, and the treble sparkles without being overly pronounced nor stuffy and veiled.

It's not as clear as the brighter, detail oriented headphones out there, but for a neutral to warm leaning closed headphone, it does an admirable job.

Clarity changes when engaging it's 3D surround mode, in which the Mobius takes on a slightly brighter, airier, more detailed tonality, which makes it great for gaming.




*Sound Signature:*

Tonality: Neutral-warm tonality, linear, authoritative bass, luscious midrange, neutral-warm treble

Bass: Linear, sub bass is cavernous, mid bass as impactful as necessary. Slight excess bass energy in lower frequency male speech. Bass decay/resonance is medium speed. Rich texture.

Midrange: Warm neutral, linear, up front and center, organic, lifelike, natural. Excellent. No annoying areas in the transition to lower treble. Slight dip at 1.5khz, 3.5khz-4khz transition is the pronounced but not overly sharp.

Treble: Warm neutral/south of neutral, with sparkly upper end. Not soft, not pronounced. Walks a fine line between smooth and sparkly. Warm, but not WARM. Upper end extension is high. 10khz-12khz lively. 13khz drop off.



*Gaming:*

As Audeze first foray into a gaming headset, you would expect that it needs to deliver, and I have to say, gaming with the Mobius has been a treat. While these impressions are premature as my testing hasn't been vast into gaming (I've focused on the stereo, music aspects first.), I have taken the Mobius for a spin a few days with some single player gaming, and multiplayer ala Destiny 2.

As one would expect of a deeply immersive experience that a meaty bass, rich midrange headphone would give, the immersion factor is absolutely stellar. This is one incredibly fun headphone to use. It is vibrant and dynamic, with some pleasant prowess in terms of clarity as well. Headphones tend to lean towards either immersive gaming, or competitive, detail oriented gaming. Well, I can easily say the Mobius can easily serve as either. I guess that is what an incredibly linear response can deliver, yet without any 'flat' sound boredom.

Now for the real treats.

How well does it's 3D surround sound function? As someone who started with the tried and true Dolby Headphone, who has dabbled with Beyerdynamic's Headzone surround dsp, then THX Tru Studio, and for a few years up to now having used Creative's SBX Surround, I can say I was absolutely surprised by how effective Audeze's surround solution is. Here are my past and current experiences:

There are many other virtual surround dsps, but these are the ones I'm accustomed to and found worth using. In my nearly decade long audiophile life, you can say I'm more than well acquainted with what Audeze is attempting here with its base virtual surround implementation outside of the headtracking.


So is the Mobius' implementation of surround worthwhile when compared to tried and true dsps that have thrived before its inception? Short answer? Abso-freaking-lutely.

The surround emulation just works. It instantly reminds me of something akin to Creative's SBX surround, give or take a bit of rear positional depth. Positional accuracy is correct, with the only negligible shortcoming being that blind testing front/rear positional cues aren't as easy as with Dolby Headphone or SBX. Now, this is a problem I personally feel ALL surround DSPs have. It's just one of those aspects of virtual surround that take a little more than just sound to convince. Action on screen relative to what you hear goes a long way into 'tricking' your brain into hearing sound cues as being 'behind you'.

Now, I won't go out of my way and say it's the best one, because to me, it isn't quite there. THAT being said, this is an unfinished product and is still subject to changes and various improvements, with the surround dsp having features currently locked out that MAY actually improve it enough to get it right where I'd want it. Slightly enlarging the virtual room size may be all that's needed. So for now, I'd rate its virtual surround as an 8/10. It's great. I can without question use the Mobius competitively and not ever feel like its positional cues are a detriment.



*3D Button and Its Effects*

To add what the 3D button does and its effects for more than just gaming, let me clarify:

Base Surround Emulation:

For best results, you need to change the mode to 7.1 (though head tracking does work in 2 channel mode to a lesser extent).

Upon engaging virtual surround, the sound signature of the Mobius becomes slightly brighter (though still retains the Mobius traits of linear signature with deep AND punchy bass, equally present midrange, and neutral-ish non-fatiguing but clear treble), and considerably more airy, which is to be expected. You're going from a typical headphone's audio, to something that simulates a room with speakers. That's right, you honestly should not compare basic stereo mode with 7.1 virtual surround/head tracking mode, because the presentation of sound is COMPLETELY different. Again, it's like going from headphones to then taking your headphones off and listening to speakers inside a room. Not exactly the same, right?

Well, the immediate difference is how the sound goes from inside your head to several virtual feet in front of you, at the very least when it comes for stereo content. If you're listening to music, it's like there are a set of speakers in front of you. If playing 5.1/7.1 content, it's like you're in the middle of the action, and things are happening all around you. Now, you may think "well, regular headphone gaming I feel like I'm in the center of it all." No. Just no. There is no comparison. You're still limited to two channels giving you audio that is more or less in and around your headspace. Virtual surround is like you're listening to speakers quite some distance from you.

Mobius's surround emulation is distinct, with clear positional cues, note-worthy airyness and soundstage size. You are enveloped in a large sound field that is further aided by the wonderful, wonderful headtracking. Thankfully, the reverb is kept to a minimum, so it doesn't sound overly artificial like some other virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone, which may have better rear positional discernability, but at the expense of fidelity. I think most users would take the Mobius interpretation of virtual surround over Dolby Headphone.


Headtracking:

As if virtual surround wasn't enough, Audeze decided to throw in an incredibly functional headtracking feature that not only works, but works amazingly well.

To start, it begins with you facing what you deem is the front (or in my case, the TV screen). You then press then 3D button to center the headtracking. From that point, ANY head movement will be tracked by the Mobius. So if you were to turn around, the audio that is supposed to be in front of you will come from behind you. To give an easy example: say you're using this feature while listening to music, well it's exactly like you're listening to speakers in front of you, and whatever direction you turn to, the audio will still be coming from where the speakers are obviously located. It's something you have to experience to truly understand and appreciate.

Now, for music, I'm a headphone purist, in the sense that I would just rather listen to the Mobius with the 3D/surround/headtracking turned off. However for sources that have a 5.1/7.1 mix like movies, video games, and tv shows, I absolutely swear by the surround and headtracking.

For gaming in particular it adds an extra layer in dimensionality, as no longer do I have to 'think' of the sound as it ALWAYS being in front of me, so if say, my head were slightly angled in another direction, I would still know where sound cues are at on the screen, because the headtracking makes it possible to pinpoint EXACTLY where sounds are coming from relative to where I'm facing and not just where it is at relative to the screen. It's not only immersive, it's absolutely beneficial, if even by just a little bit.

I think this will absolutely be a game changer in the future, if the gaming industry pays attention.


Final Impressions on Surround and Headtracking:

Surround sound alone is something I deem incredibly important in gaming, especially headphone gaming. The Audeze Mobius' implementation is a fantastic new alternative to all the existing surround DSPs out there. In addition to its headtracking, it may as well become a brand new favorite for many people. Audeze already had a bang up headphone without even going into the gaming and surround features. With them, Audeze has intentions on making a serious name for itself in the gaming audio space.



*Bluetooth:*

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of experience with wireless audio. Outside of a pretty good pair of Jaybird X2s iems and gaming headsets: Creative Soundblaster Jam, Astro A50, Skullcandy Plyr 1, and perhaps a few others, I don't expect much from wireless audio.

Now, the Mobius' bluetooth implemetation isn't even finalized, and even before that, I can EASILY say that I'm positively blown away by how amazing the Mobius sounds in its prototype Bluetooth form. I mean, it sounds the 'same' to my ears. I mean that in a way that I don't notice any sound signature differences. It sounds clean, crisp, clear, and if there is any compression, I honestly can't tell. I would absolutely fail a blind test between bluetooth and USB. I'm sure there are differences, but I'm not gonna strain myself to the point where I trick myself into thinking one sounds better than the other. That is the highest praise I can give. What baffles me is how the final product's Bluetooth implementation is supposed to be better? HOLY SMOKES.

We can sit here and talk about headtracking, and whatnot. To be honest, I think I was just as impressed by the bluetooth sound quality. Yes, it's that good. Fight me.



*Personal Recommendation?*

The Audeze Mobius is possibly the easiest product to recommend to everyone outside of console specific gamers. It's a stellar music headphone, gaming headset, and general media monster. Outside of possibly those who want something analytical, or bass light, I don't see how ANYONE else would not consider these.

Even if you don't care about virtual surround, or even headtreacking, the Mobius IS STILL a stellar audiophile headphone in both usb AND wireless bluetooth modes. I don't talk much about the aux cable mode, because bluetooth is so good, you won't find a need to connect a cable unless it's for the usb specific uses. I promise you.



*Final Impressions:*

Had Audeze released a barebones headset, that didn't have surround, headtracking, or even wireless capabilities, the Mobius would STILL get a full recommendation from me. Based off sound quality alone, I was instantly enamored by the Mobius. Audeze specifically asked for general concerns or advice for them on what I think needs fixing. I told them that I honestly wouldn't change a THING of it's sonic traits. I mean, speaking purely in terms of sound signature and quality, the Mobius is 100% READY to go. I do NOT want anything about its inherent sound changed whatsoever.

How can I give critical feedback to a product I can find no real fault in? Yes, the noise floor is audible at low volume which was already being addressed before I even mentioned it. Yes, there are some glitches like bluetooth audio would mess up the USB audio when switching sources. But these are things that are actively being fixed before a final version is out.

If/when these kinks are ironed out for the final release, the Mobius is going to be a BIG FREAKING DEAL in the audiophile community. I guarantee it. Quote me on it.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Pros:

Planarmagnetic
Self driven (no dac/amp needed)
Wireless capability via Bluetooth
Great virtual surround
Amazing Headtracking
So much bang for the money
Stellar sound quality from usb AND bluetooth


Cons:

Noise floor isn't dead silent (Was told directly by Audeze they will be improving the noise floor for the final product)

No full console capability outside of standard aux cable into controller on PS4. Not sure on XB1 or Switch, though if they have a headphone jack somewhere you'll get basic stereo capability.

Aux cable input isn't passive, so no benefit in using your own dac/amps.

Aux cable input may not be unnecessary because bluetooth sound quality is just that good.



*Unfiltered Thoughts:*

I don't even want to begin trying to understand how Audeze was capable of cramming so much into a product like this that isn't worth a zillion dollars. I don't wanna know, I don't wanna ask. All I know is that it exists, and you absolutely should get it. I want it. Even if JUST for the Bluetooth, I'd argue for it.




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## Fegefeuer (Mar 14, 2018)

Really nice to see a MLE review again, even though it's not final. This thread will look alive again for a while. O_O

Looking forward to the Mobius. When is the release?


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## Mad Lust Envy

It's weird. It does everything I want except work on consoles. SMFH. And yet, why is it so spectacular? 

It's not typically something I would normally recommend here since it's limited to everything BUT consoles, though I guess you can use its Aux input and connect to your mixamp devices, but it's self powered and aux goes through an adc back to dac phase. Amping is literally detrimental. I was getting buzz off the X7 in low gain mode, so I was like forget that.

But even though it aint for consoles atm, the usb connection and bluetooth are both so good. It's quite a departure from our guide's 'norm'.


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## Yethal

THE KING IS BACK


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## Fegefeuer (Mar 14, 2018)

honestly, this being an Audeze came totally unexpected, although it helped not being aware of this product at all. Checking the Indiegogo the release isn't far away. About consoles though:

Dolby Access is a good early step for consoles to output VST to optical, hdmi and even over the controller, it's just rather useless on not supported games and could benefit from more "resolution".
Playstation has nothing except "built-in" support for games like Horizon, Uncharted and that's just sad. The irony is that if you turn on your PSVR and connect your headphones to the corresponding port you can enjoy Horizon Zero Dawn with Sony's 3D Audio, and I'm not speaking about the default speaker room HRTF that the PSVR outputs.


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## nam3less (Mar 14, 2018)

So how would this compare to K702 with dedicated sound card? Better overall sound in terms of fun/enjoyment for games/movies/general use for both PC and console due to bass and being planar but not as good for surround/positional tracking compared to dolby/cmss/etc? Because you can't really bypass the internals? That the gist?

thanks for the review, MLE.


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## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> though I guess you can use its Aux input and connect to your mixamp devices


You can, and I have. It's not the best solution like console support would be, but it's an ok experience. It's far better on the PC.


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## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> You can, and I have. It's not the best solution like console support would be, but it's an ok experience. It's far better on the PC.


Is it recognized as 7.1 device by Windows?


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## AxelCloris

I'll check the Windows options later tonight. I didn't bother checking since it "just worked" when I plugged it in for gaming tests.


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## Mad Lust Envy

It is recognized as 7.1.

I think only when it is actually set as 7.1. both two channel and high res will be recognized as such.

As for how this compared to the K702, come on man, your asking to compare an open dynamic made for analytical/critical listening vs a closed planar with a balanced albeit bass infused tilt.

I hate comparing open vs closed in any instance, especially fun vs analytical. They're too different.


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## freshmind

Firstly, I want to thank you for this great review MLE...

I have Creative SBZ ZXR and Fidelio X2 for a long time, and I'm in a mood for change them with something better/different/new. I am hesitating to change them, because they are so screw good.

Do you think Mobius will be my savior ? Like how their DSP' compete with SBX ?

Btw you're saying they don't have the best DSP you ever heard, so what is it than ? What is the best DSP you ever heard ? I'm very curious about that.


----------



## wazzupi

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It is recognized as 7.1.
> 
> I think only when it is actually set as 7.1. both two channel and high res will be recognized as such.
> 
> ...


Have you tried any modded t50 mk3 ? How do the soundstages and imaging compare ?


----------



## kayan

Well, thanks a lot MLE (@MadLustEnvy) this is the second headphone I've purchased from you (well sort of anyway). I've been looking for something wireless that would work with PC gaming, and well, after watching their videos and reading your p/review I backed the Mobius. I'm hoping it's what I'm looking for, but I guess that if it isn't I can probably resell them without a loss.

One thing that worries me is that out of all the Audeze cans I've tried, some of the pads are big and deep enough for my ears, and some not at all.


----------



## raband

Bugger MLE - just cost me another bundle via the Indigogo page for pre-orders with discounts 

This is probably the most exciting I've been for a headphone item since the A16.

If this is all it looks cracked up to be I'll finally be keen to offload the majority of my collection.

Wonder which will turn up at the door 1st - the Mobius or the A16?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

freshmind said:


> Firstly, I want to thank you for this great review MLE...
> 
> I have Creative SBZ ZXR and Fidelio X2 for a long time, and I'm in a mood for change them with something better/different/new. I am hesitating to change them, because they are so screw good.
> 
> ...



There are trade offs. Out of the ones I've tested, Dolby Headphone has the best surround emulation in terms of positional accuracy, but the reverb makes the sound a bit echoy and artificial. SBX is my fave atm as it's close enough to DH, without the excess reverb, so virtual surround sounds more natural. The Mobius DSP is kind of more like SBX than DH. Not so much reverb, but rear positional cues aren't as strong. Still, they're above decent and I wouldn't have a problem gaming with it, if it were my only virtual surround device.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE, do you still have your Xonar U3? 

Everyone who has a Xonar U3 or any other 7.1 product should try the EQ APO + HeSuVi combination and tell me how they like switching between DHP, SBX, DTS X, Dolby Atmos etc. Some of these convolution filters don't sound right to me but SBX 7.1, DHT/DHP sound good. The Dolby Atmos filter has the center in your head, like DTS:X as well, the fronts more boxed in. 

It's free and only takes a minute to install. Just deactive DHP or anything else on your sound card and set it to 7.1


----------



## raband

The "head tracking" in the Mobius is the interesting thing for me.

If that actually works it'll eliminate 99% of the issues I have with VSS

Frontal cues have never been working for me in any solution I've tried so far - if the head tracking gives even a little "focus" on what I'm looking at then it'll be a huge leap forward.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> MLE, do you still have your Xonar U3?
> 
> Everyone who has a Xonar U3 or any other 7.1 product should try the EQ APO + HeSuVi combination and tell me how they like switching between DHP, SBX, DTS X, Dolby Atmos etc. Some of these convolution filters don't sound right to me but SBX 7.1, DHT/DHP sound good. The Dolby Atmos filter has the center in your head, like DTS:X as well, the fronts more boxed in.
> It's free and only takes a minute to install. Just deactive DHP or anything else on your sound card and set it to 7.1



I still have it. Let me know what to do and I'll give it a go this weekend. Won't have much time for the next few days.


----------



## Fegefeuer

This is the main page. https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

Installation is very easy




> Download and install Equalizer APO. A configurator will open at the end of the installation and you are asked to select devices for which the APO is to be set up. Tick the box in front of your default device (see the Status column for that) and finalize the installation – but do not reboot.
> Download and install HeSuVi. Unpack it into Equalizer APO's config folder. The HeSuVi installer will automatically point to the correct folder if you didn't change Equalizer APO's install folder.
> HeSuVi should open and you can click on *Restart Audio* in the bottom left if you didn't reboot in step one.
> Click the *Open Windows Sound Panel* button next. Select your default device there, click the *Properties* button in the bottom right corner and change the sampling rate to 48000 Hz from the *Default Format* dropdown under *Advanced*. Save with *OK*.
> Configure your playback device to surround sound by clicking on *Configure* in the lower left corner of the Sound Panel window. Select *7.1 Surround*(or anything above 3 channels) and follow through with the configuration untill the window closes.




most important presets are:



> – Dolby Atmos Headphone
> – CMSS-3D
> – SBX Pro Studio Surround (also found in BlasterX Acoustic Engine & THX TruStudio Pro)
> – Dolby Headphone
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Interesting. I'll definitely look into it. Mind copying that post and sending me it as a message? I don't wanna lose it, and I'm on mobile.


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## ninjames (Mar 15, 2018)

So the Mobius is just not good for Xbox? And the bluetooth isn't a thing for PS4, or..? I plan on using this bluetooth on my PC and aux to my Xbox controller but it sounds like that's a bad thing to do? (and I assumed bluetooth would work with PS4).

EDIT: I mostly just want a very good sounding headset to use pretty painlessly with PC, PS4 and XB1. Is there no kind of 3D sound using aux?


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## Mad Lust Envy

The full fledged surround only works out of a usb. If your source can output 7.1 through usb, like PC, then yes you'll get the full 3d audio. Otherwise you'll get a 3d audio for stereo,  where you'll be missing the 360 degree sound cues. Think of that being like you sitting in a room with just two speakers in front of you. That's what aux cord and Bluetooth sound with 3d turned on.

You CAN get true virtual surround out of aux IF it's connected to a virtual surround device like a Mixamp, as that can carry the surround to anything connected after. If you truly want virtual surround to Bluetooth, you'll have to buy one if those 3.5mm to Bluetooth transmitters, which don't sound great.


----------



## ninjames

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The full fledged surround only works out of a usb. If your source can output 7.1 through usb, like PC, then yes you'll get the full 3d audio. Otherwise you'll get a 3d audio for stereo,  where you'll be missing the 360 degree sound cues. Think of that being like you sitting in a room with just two speakers in front of you. That's what aux cord and Bluetooth sound with 3d turned on.
> 
> You CAN get true virtual surround out of aux IF it's connected to a virtual surround device like a Mixamp, as that can carry the surround to anything connected after. If you truly want virtual surround to Bluetooth, you'll have to buy one if those 3.5mm to Bluetooth transmitters, which don't sound great.



So, if I'm looking for a lot of gaming, but mostly casual gaming, on the PC, XB1 and PS4, and I've already preordered one of these at the $249 level, and just want a good headset that sounds great and is easy to use (currently using a Hyper-X Cloud 2), and love the planar sound (HE-400 being my favorite headphones), would you recommend keeping my order? The 7.1 stuff sounds really cool and I'd definitely try that with things like PUBG and the like when I'm sitting at my computer, but for general gaming and easily bluetooth listening, given what I've said about my use case, do you think I've made a good purchase in the Mobius? I respect your opinion a whole lot.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Absolutely. Even in stereo, I absolutely love using these.


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## thewind32

Hey MLE, in your Mobius impressions, you said that "the reverb is kept to a minimum, so it doesn't sound overly artificial like some other virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone".
Now, having only tried some free surround virtualisation and none from Dolby, Creative etc., I found the effect very boomy/wrong. I take it that this is the limitations of the crappy free solutions and that the Mobius's implementation sounds much better than that?


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## Mad Lust Envy

While I can't say as we haven't experienced the same stuff, a decent virtual surround shouldn't have a boomines ot anything. At worst you should only marginally have some 'ropcessed' type sound that isn't found in basic stereo, but is expected. I recommend you try to listen to some of the demos on the first page. They may be outdated but give you a sort of idea. The Mobius 3D audio still has a processed sound by the nature of it actually being processed, but it's really a non-issue if you keep expectations of virtual surround realistic.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2018)

Guys, so I have something I wanna get off my chest, and I feel perhaps maybe you guys may wanna know.

No sob stories or anything, but just more about me and the reality of life.

As you know, I don't make money out of any of this hobby (outside the few hundred I've gotten from the headphone.guru reviews). . I'm a man who makes just over $300 a week from my real job ($10.00 an hour). As you know, this ain't a living wage. I'm not happy. I'm stressed out daily from financial responsibilities (like most of us Americans are). I currently live back with family as I can't feasibly afford my own housing.

I do think, and have been told by some of you, that I can build something for myself here. My end goal would be being able to do what I do here full time, quit my job, and expand into perhaps my own website (which would still be forever linked to this guide and forum for the daily), but like my guru freelance reviews, would post the meat of reviews there (on my site), as well as much more, like sponsors, advertising, giveaways, trips to audio meets, conventions, etc. etc. You know like a successful website/person with credibility.

A business venture where I have a working relationship with manufacturers where I can review their stuff as I do now (reviews would be unpaid by companies as they have always been), but also have stuff that can be sponsored like any good site, etc. Expansion by means of (later) having the funds/means to do legitimate video reviews, perhaps weekly hangouts on Twitch with my supporters, playing with them, answering questions, etc.

Now, right now this is all a dream, an idea. Something I need time to study and figure out.

Would some of you be willing to accept a gofundme, patreon type deal? As of right now, there are so many of you that tell me you guys bought products because of me, but I have never given thought about perhaps banking on those referrals with stuff like Amazon affiliate links and whatnot. Now, the gofunme or patreon stuff is still an idea as well, as I need to research how people go about doing those things, and what backers expect from who they are supporting. This would NOT affect the current way I do things, so I'm not expecting or saying this is what would sustain my reviewing. The reviews will and always will be something I do on the side as personal hobby and because you guys want them from me. The Patreon/gofundme/funding by any means would be an act of charity and hopeful promise of a better future where I can be MORE than just that guy that reviews every half a year. You get my drift.

Again, nothing HERE would change if none of this pans out. I'm simply asking, and trying to see who is interested in helping a guy like me out.

I have a friend on the other side of the world who is great at graphic design/builds websites so I know I can count on him for some of those things. Most of the rest is entirely up to me.

Please guys, any feedback suggestions would be more than welcome. I want to make this into something to prove to myself I can, and to see that there are people who believe in me and the possibilities.

Mods, if this sounds like some shilling or against forum rules, I'll take it down. I just have no idea how to do much of anything about this, and I think I'm wasting years of my life doing nothing (which is absolutely true).

I'll likely write all this in better wording on the first post with an update, once I have gathered my thoughts and really dug into this idea. Right now it came upon me in passing with someone I speak to who keeps telling me I'm wasting so many opportunities with my name. I'm a realist and pessimist, so it's hard to find encouragement and step out of the comfort zone I have made for myself. But I wanna try. I really do.


----------



## ninjames

I have experience with ... not this exact area, but running websites, blogs, SEO, social media etc on a large scale. Hit me up if you need any advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

As I continue thinking about all this, I also wanna continue to improve each review, with stuff like audio recordings of microphone quality, images, and more. I want to make each review the best that I can possibly make them. I want to continue to strive for better and bigger things for not just myself but the community we;'ve built around this ridiculous thing that started off as a list for me to keep track of what I like and don't like. You guys made it what it is today, and can help make it bigger. I don't usually believe in many things, but I have a hope for the future.


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## thewind32 (Mar 16, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I recommend you try to listen to some of the demos on the first page. They may be outdated but give you a sort of idea.



Ah right, I forgot you had those. Relistening to them on my HD600, yes the directional audio becomes much better, but for example in the first video showing the Skyrim opening scene, when the effect is turned on, the wagon rumbling & ambient wind noise feel somewhat as if I'm holding a cup/seashell to my ears (not that extreme but similar).
Would the Mobius produce a similar effect?

Now regarding the venture you're looking into, I'm surprised you haven't had Amazon affiliate links yet. Given how many headphones you've probably helped sold (I got my HE-400 and eventually my HD600 partly thanks to you), you really should try to get a little kickback. Not sure if you know this, but you still get returns if someone who clicks on your link ends up buying something else on Amazon instead.
Also, any reason why you don't upload your many reviews onto your youtube channel? There are people who would prefer hearing rather than reading, and you can get some ad revenue & attention that way.


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## Mad Lust Envy

thewind32 said:


> Ah right, I forgot you had those. Relistening to them on my HD600, yes the directional audio becomes much better, but for example in the first video showing the Skyrim opening scene, when the effect is turned on, the wagon rumbling & ambient wind noise feel somewhat as if I'm holding a cup/seashell to my ears (not that extreme but similar).
> Would the Mobius produce a similar effect?
> 
> Now regarding the venture you're looking into, I'm surprised you haven't had Amazon affiliate links yet. Given how many headphones you've probably helped sold (I got my HE-400 and eventually my HD600 partly thanks to you), you really should try to get a little kickback. Not sure if you know this, but you still get returns if someone who clicks on your link ends up buying something else on Amazon instead.
> Also, any reason why you don't upload your many reviews onto your youtube channel? There are people who would prefer hearing rather than reading, and you can get some ad revenue & attention that way.


Shyness, lack of editing knowledge, and lack of equipment like a good microphone, lighting, camera, etc. My unboxings and whatnot were so amateur. I wanna do better. If I had the equipment and spent a little time with a good editing program, I definitely wanna move my youtube forward with a relaunch and whatnot. This is one thing I absolutely want to do. I want my name to grow.

I'm getting into the mindset into fully commiting to all this. I wanna know the feeling of doing something I love for a living, and being able to quit what I don't.


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## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Shyness, lack of editing knowledge, and lack of equipment like a good microphone, lighting, camera, etc. My unboxings and whatnot were so amateur. I wanna do better. If I had the equipment and spent a little time with a good editing program, I definitely wanna move my youtube forward with a relaunch and whatnot. This is one thing I absolutely want to do. I want my name to grow.
> 
> I'm getting into the mindset into fully commiting to all this. I wanna know the feeling of doing something I love for a living, and being able to quit what I don't.



Perhaps go check out Rocket Jump Ninja on youtube and his website. Mainly a gaming mice channel, but has videos on other peripherals too. I really like his style.
Regardless of what you ultimately choose, I wish you all the best, and will keep an eye out for your content!

Btw, would appreciate it if you could answer the first part of my previous post!


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## Mad Lust Envy

The Mobius has way less of that. Dolby Headphone is generally the worst when it comes to that effect, which is what you were listening to. Mobius is more natural.


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## pietcux

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Mobius has way less of that. Dolby Headphone is generally the worst when it comes to that effect, which is what you were listening to. Mobius is more natural.


Did you ever test the relative new Sennheiser GTX1000?


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## Mad Lust Envy

No, I would've definitely told you guys.


----------



## Vader2k

Hey MLE,

Very cool to hear you're seriously considering turning your passion for this hobby into your full time job.  I don't have a lot of advice to give, but I'd recommend looking at the model Karak / Jeremy Penter of Angry Centaur Gaming (ACG) has set up for doing his in-depth game reviews.  He buys each and every copy of the games he reviews (which I understand would be a lot harder to do with headphones) and he has a Patreon setup where the money donated by his followers is used to help purchase those titles and also go towards the occasional giveaways he does and such. He's definitely about showing transparency in his reviews by mentioning at the beginning of each one that he's not just gonna fill up the review with sponsored bs to ensure folks understand it's his own likes and dislikes that he's sharing.

I think you have a built-in audience already and your review style is already readily apparent to be honest and not "bought" in any way, so I think you definitely have a good shot at being successful with this.

Good luck!


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## HairyHook

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, so I have something I wanna get off my chest, and I feel perhaps maybe you guys may wanna know.
> 
> No sob stories or anything, but just more about me and the reality of life.
> 
> ...



MLE, thanks for sharing. I'm more of a passive reader in this community but I would like to give you my 2 cents. 

Like other people have suggested, YouTube is one way to go. I see you have a channel and that you have 683 subscribers. That's impressive considering your last headphone video was uploaded 3 years ago. If you keep uploading content the number will grow a lot. You mentioned not having good equipment to record the videos, but check out "Z Reviews" channel. He records in POV fashion and just talks about headphones and reviews stuff. Not sure what's his camera but seems fine, nothing fancy there. I think audiophiles trust honesty more than flashy videos. You already have a community that LOVES your work and if you start migrating content to YouTube, your channel could exponentially grow. 

If you need to purchase equipment, start a gofundme and patreon campaign. I'd state what equipment you need to buy and how much it costs. I've seen people backing projects if they have a clear understanding of where their money is going vs just sending money your way. For Patreons, you could have a list of the videos you plan to do monthly or in the future (i.e best gaming headphones below $100, then $300, etc.). Again, I'm not an expert here, just my opinion.

For reviews purposes, people can send you their cans. Even donate some equipment to improve the video quality.  

Definitely update all links and include your own Amazon affiliate code. Worst case, you get nothing out of there but I'm sure people have bought tons of headphones clicking your links. 

Keep up the good work, we'll have your back whatever direction you want to go.


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## Yethal (Mar 16, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, so I have something I wanna get off my chest, and I feel perhaps maybe you guys may wanna know.
> 
> No sob stories or anything, but just more about me and the reality of life.
> 
> ...


If you set up Patreon I'll be first to subscribe. My entire audio journey started from this thread. I wouldn't be into audio if it wasn't for you man.
Also, if I were you I'd try teaming up with Currawong and Brooko they have their own website and everything.


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## CFGamescape

I currently game using the Sound Blaster G5 with K7XX. I think it drives the headphones great, but the surround, IMO, is good but not great. I've messed around with a lot of settings and feel what I have is the best I could come up with. Maybe it's the headphones? I also have the PC37X, but don't use it much, so I can't recall how satisfied or dissatisfied I've been with the surround output (with the G5). I primarily play PUBG, so positional sound is super important. I'm thinking about picking up the GSX 1000, or maybe the Mobius, but don't feel like waiting for the Mobius.

Can anyone who's had the G5 _and_ the GSX care to share a comparison specifically re: surround?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2018)

While all of this is at an infancy first, I'll spend my next day off doing a lot in what plans to have for all of this like, videos as in recommendations for price ranges, closed backs, open backs, immersive, competitive, etc.

All your recommendations are welcome. I'm also gonna be hopefully adding stuff like recorded samples of microphone quality for headsets, etc. I wanna make sure you guys are happy, and that we can continue growing. Also more consistency in terms of one or two reviews per month, maybe adding quickies of stuff that may not be worth full reviews but I might recommend for music and whatnot (in case I don't find certain products up to my level of standards for reviewing). AS for number of reviews per month, I really think one every few weeks is ideal over more, because, while I can do a very quick review turn around (like I did for the Stax SR-407 which was done essentially in 3 days from first listen to posted review), I feel products deserve some time for adjustment periods.

Was also thinking of adding categorical awards, like:

Mad: An award for products has gone under the radar and deserves recognition (value products). Mad we didn't know about it sooner.

Lust: An award for products that fall in our audiophile level quality with a generally feasible price range that audiophiles should lust after (usually those of a few hundred dollar ranges, like mid-fi).

Envy: An award for products worth envying those who have it, and usually consist of higher tier products that general audiophiles may not be able to afford (obvious higher end gear, like my reviews of the Ether C, Fostex TH-900, etc.) Basically the unobtanium products that only a few of us will spend money getting. Perhaps like a future review of things like the HD800, LCD-X level type stuff.

It can or MAYBE be about upcoming products instead. I'm undecided.

What do you guys think? I'm totally over my name and would like just using my name instead or something, but I know it's my brand and I don't wanna cause confusion as to who I am, so I wanna incorporate MLE in a natural way that makes sense.

Trust me guys, I have some ideas at least for a potential website and content.

I'll be here on Monday (my weekend lol) writing a lot of these suggestions and recommendations down.

I'm not allowed to link to my (currently non-existent) Patreon here, so I'll just let you guys know when all that is ready in some other manner.


----------



## lenroot77

@Mad Lust Envy 
Do it man! I’ve always said to myself “ Man if he had a YouTube video for each of these reviews he’d have a stack of cash!”


----------



## Yethal

lenroot77 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> Do it man! I’ve always said to myself “ Man if he had a YouTube video for each of these reviews he’d have a stack of cash!”


And if he released them two weeks early for Patreon supporters and had regular schedule. 
@Mad Lust Envy There's also all kinds of "will x pair up great with y" or "how to use device z to its full potential" questions that either go unanswered or require deep digging through this thread. A youTube channel would seriously help all those people.


----------



## TeeReQs

Yethal said:


> And if he released them two weeks early for Patreon supporters and had regular schedule.
> @Mad Lust Envy There's also all kinds of "will x pair up great with y" or "how to use device z to its full potential" questions that either go unanswered or require deep digging through this thread. A youTube channel would seriously help all those people.



I second this. Videos on how to properly setup an X7, Mixamp, GSX, etc. and what settings work best for music, games or movies I think would help a lot of people. The diagrams in the first post are great, but nothing beats seeing how it's done in a well done video. Over the years I've used this thread as home base for any of my gaming audio related needs, and I'm sure many treat it as an invaluable resource as well. A full fledged YouTube channel based on this thread would be excellent.


----------



## wazzupi

Can anyone comment on a argon mk3 for gaming ?


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Would some of you be willing to accept a gofundme, patreon type deal?



Count me in


----------



## Tohex

CFGamescape said:


> I currently game using the Sound Blaster G5 with K7XX. I think it drives the headphones great, but the surround, IMO, is good but not great. I've messed around with a lot of settings and feel what I have is the best I could come up with. Maybe it's the headphones? I also have the PC37X, but don't use it much, so I can't recall how satisfied or dissatisfied I've been with the surround output (with the G5). I primarily play PUBG, so positional sound is super important. I'm thinking about picking up the GSX 1000, or maybe the Mobius, but don't feel like waiting for the Mobius.
> 
> Can anyone who's had the G5 _and_ the GSX care to share a comparison specifically re: surround?



I too am requesting someone who has had both to try their best to give us some direction. I'm coming from the outside and believe the G5 looks pretty good because I want that line out functionality to feed into external amps.


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## thewind32 (Mar 17, 2018)

Has MLE or anyone tried HeSuVi? https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

Apparently it is capable of imitating the virtualisation of various options out there like Dolby Atmos Headphone, Sennheiser GSX etc.
Took a while to set up and get rid of static but once that's done, it seems to work for me. However, having barely any past experience with virtual surround, I would like someone to compare that to the "real" solution if possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thewind32 said:


> Has MLE or anyone tried HeSuVi? https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/
> 
> Apparently it is capable of imitating the virtualisation of various options out there like Dolby Atmos Headphone, Sennheiser GSX etc.
> Took a while to set up and get rid of static but once that's done, it seems to work for me. However, having barely any past experience with virtual surround, I would like someone to compare that to the "real" solution if possible.


@Fegefeuer has, and gave me the info. I'll be testing it out hopefully Monday. The MMX300 came in so I gotta start working on that headset for headphone.guru.

This HeSuVi sounds ideal for testing. Though something about it reminds me of the Out Of Your Head software that also worked incredibly well. I would've definitely gone in depth with that had I not owned a virtual surround device.


----------



## pietcux

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @Fegefeuer has, and gave me the info. I'll be testing it out hopefully Monday. The MMX300 came in so I gotta start working on that headset for headphone.guru.
> 
> This HeSuVi sounds ideal for testing. Though something about it reminds me of the Out Of Your Head software that also worked incredibly well. I would've definitely gone in depth with that had I not owned a virtual surround device.



Thanks @Fegefeuer for the hint. I think it is a must to try this out, but it seems to be very a time consuming endeavor. Means, I dunno when I can do it.


----------



## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @Fegefeuer has, and gave me the info. I'll be testing it out hopefully Monday. The MMX300 came in so I gotta start working on that headset for headphone.guru.
> 
> This HeSuVi sounds ideal for testing. Though something about it reminds me of the Out Of Your Head software that also worked incredibly well. I would've definitely gone in depth with that had I not owned a virtual surround device.



No worries, take your time. Speaking of Out Of Your Head, it's one of the options available in HeSuVi too. I personally would like to spend more time trying it out in various games but unfortunately assignment deadlines loom


----------



## Fegefeuer

Installation of HeSuVi and EQ APO is actually very easy and fast, it doesn't even require a reboot. You can reboot the audio subsystem of windows via a single-click.

All you need to make sure is having a 7.1 device and turning off its VST and anything similar. Everything else is so easily done. 

Some filters are unusable because they have additional reverb (like DHP-3 but most of you know that), but other than that there are even DHP and SBX filters with normal/standard profiles and even a few with lesser reverb. Sennheiser GSX profile does have some anomalies in my setup where the panning doesn't work properly. The "_alt" profiles of it are not recommended at all.

SBX 7.1, DHT/DHP and a few others work suprisingly well.


----------



## Muldeberg

Evshrug said:


> Good isolation, hardest headphone to drive that I've ever had at home (More challenging than the 600 Ω DT 880, this headphone cries for a fairly strong amp), thin pads that depress and you can feel the hard cup plastic after only a few hours, but the driver has a lot of potential and those willing to put it into a better enclosure get a sound that punches well above the original. The Mark III improved on the comfort, so you might get away with it, but I still recommend an amp.



What AMP would you recommend for them?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 18, 2018)

I was also thinking about doing a weekly Twitch stream (to begin with) where in a schedule, I can stream whatever game but be there to answer all your questions, play with you guys, etc.

Of course I don't exactly have a web camera so I'll have to look into stuff like that too. Be it one viewer or 100. In any case I need a web camera for youtube anyways.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, I've updated my sign with a bunch of new links, as to where to find me on all forms of social media. The stuff we talked about is all in there like twitter and facebook. Please check them out for all the updates.

The next thing coming up for the guide is the Beyerdynamic MMX300 review which will be linked from headphone.guru like some of my older reviews. It will still be put up on the guide here.

I spent all night doing my sites, so now it's bedtime, lol.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, I've updated my sign with a bunch of new links, as to where to find me on all forms of social media. The stuff we talked about is all in there like twitter and facebook. Please check them out for all the updates.
> 
> The next thing coming up for the guide is the Beyerdynamic MMX300 review which will be linked from headphone.guru like some of my older reviews. It will still be put up on the guide here.
> 
> I spent all night doing my sites, so now it's bedtime, lol.


Ha! First pledge. Now we need to get everybody else hooked up.


----------



## Rozzko

Hello, can anyone tell me what the best Virual surround device? For optimal use of price-quality? astro 2013 year its hard to find, any else? 
whats the best for it and not cost so much?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> Hello, can anyone tell me what the best Virual surround device? For optimal use of price-quality? astro 2013 year its hard to find, any else?
> whats the best for it and not cost so much?


Smyth Realizer paired with Sennheiser HE-1


----------



## Rozzko (Mar 19, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The full fledged surround only works out of a usb. If your source can output 7.1 through usb, like PC, then yes you'll get the full 3d audio. Otherwise you'll get a 3d audio for stereo,  where you'll be missing the 360 degree sound cues. Think of that being like you sitting in a room with just two speakers in front of you. That's what aux cord and Bluetooth sound with 3d turned on.
> 
> You CAN get true virtual surround out of aux IF it's connected to a virtual surround device like a Mixamp, as that can carry the surround to anything connected after. If you truly want virtual surround to Bluetooth, you'll have to buy one if those 3.5mm to Bluetooth transmitters, which don't sound great.



Hello MLE , help please

In my city i have 3 options
1)Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D
2)Tritton AX 720
3)Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS2 ( ONLY DSS2 version not 1)

I have got PS4 and akg k712pro and a few inearheadphones. Want to use Virtual Dolby headphone 5.1 in my AKG when playing PS4
What will be the best of this 3 to my goals?
Thanks


----------



## Qupie

Do you know what your twitch handle would be? I have it on now and then, and would love to follow you in advance, so when you are online, I will just see it. 

Don't really use any of those other social media tbh. 

You already have a youtube right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

My Twitch handle is MadLustEnvy no spaces. I probably should fix that. I'm MadLustEnvy literally everywhere, but add Official (madlustenvyofficial) at the end on Facebook. The regular  MadLustEnvy on fb is my personal account, lol. 

Rozzko, look into a Creative X7. It's a fantastic device.

As of 2018 I don't know what your best options are as i haven't been into new sound devices in years. Hopefully something I'll also fix in the future. Expansion into more game devices that aren't outdated.


----------



## ZzBOG

A while ago I bought Q701 based on the recommendations in the thread. Thanks a lot @Mad Lust Envy !

I have a questions now - would HD800 / HD800s be a noticeable upgrade from Q701 in terms of gaming? 


I am using Creative Omni as a sound card, don't really listen to music on headphones (I have speakers for that), so HD800 would be for gaming. Price considerations aside - would there be any noticeable difference? I really just want more immersion + same wide soundstage and location pinpointing as with Q701.. Maybe there are better headphones for that than HD800? I can't do Stax though 

Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

ZzBOG said:


> A while ago I bought Q701 based on the recommendations in the thread. Thanks a lot @Mad Lust Envy !
> 
> I have a questions now - would HD800 / HD800s be a noticeable upgrade from Q701 in terms of gaming?
> 
> ...


I'm hoping to get a chance to listen to the HD800 in some form for review. Perhaps some *cough*Sennheiser reps*cough* can hook up me with lending me the HD800 for reviewing. Though if for inexplicable reason, I don't like them, they can opt out of me reviewing them, and I'll just let you guyys know I wasn't feeling them. I have no doubt this won't be the case however. From everything I've read and heard about them, they should be the next logical upgrade/end game for people who loved the Q701/K702, etc.

What I'd like from Sennheiser for reviewing, though I really need to get other company products as well, as Sennheiser has a lot on my guide, lol.

HD800
HD800S
HD820? (whatever it's called)
GSX surround devices
GSP 500/600


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My Twitch handle is MadLustEnvy no spaces. I probably should fix that. I'm MadLustEnvy literally everywhere, but add Official (madlustenvyofficial) at the end on Facebook. The regular  MadLustEnvy on fb is my personal account, lol.
> 
> Rozzko, look into a Creative X7. It's a fantastic device.
> 
> As of 2018 I don't know what your best options are as i haven't been into new sound devices in years. Hopefully something I'll also fix in the future. Expansion into more game devices that aren't outdated.


Thank you , but it's too expensive for my goals. 
On that price I can buy good dac+amp. A read that it's not too good for this price.may be something cheaper with Dolby headphone technology?

But in another thread I read opinion that good headphones with amp is better than virtual sound, because sometimes it's make it unnaturally.
This post:

""The first thing a gamer with an audiophile headphone is going to tell you is not to use VSS software like Dolby or Windows Sonic or etc. Especially not with an open back headphone with a huge soundstage and great imaging like the K702. I have an AKG K712 Pro and I have experimented with lots of forms of VSS and NONE of them beat simple Stereo mode. When gaming competitively I can hear everything going on all around me, exactly where things are coming from and exactly how far they are from me all in Stereo mode, it's far superior to VSS for me since VSS just affects sound quality WAY too much by adding unrealistic amounts of reverb making things sound too distant and tinny. 

Therefore If I were you I would personally not use an Astro Mixamp and get something like an O2+ODAC or a Schiit Stack or whichever is cheaper and stick with Stereo ONLY and it's all happy sailing from there.

A DAC is required for VSS software to work. If you absolutely want to keep Dolby headphone/VSS then you might want to use the Astro Mixamp as a DAC alone and output that to the Objective2 Amp which will power your headphones with ease. This way you can still use Dolby VSS (which comes from the Mixamp) and power your headphones easily with the Objective""

What you are thinking about it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

@Yethal I got you fam. I sent you a message over there. 

@Rozzko,

That's because those kinds of people are audio purists who hate anythingg that makes headphones not sound like headphones. I take their opinions with a grain of bittering agent powder. As in I don't really care for that opinion whatsoever. These are people who heard VSS once, and thought "It sounds way too different from what I'm used to, so it sucks."

A good virtual surround solution gives the most natural sense of ACTUAL positional cues, that stereo can NEVER ever match. Stereo does not have any frontal/rear positional accuracy. All you get is a line between your head that sounds different if something is either in front of behind you. Virtual surround actually PLACES sounds in front or behind you, where you don't have to take a second to wonder if the sound is is 'front' sound, or 'rear' sound. Again, look at the first page for some examples.

It's like NOT listening to headphones anymore, but speakers placed all around you. This is what these purists don't get. They expect a headphone sound to sound like a headphone. It doesn't.

The Creative X7 is a solid dac/amp in its own right. Even without the virtual surround, it's a fantastic dac/amp, so I dunno what the complaint is there. I'd take it over any typical dac+amp in the price range any day of the week.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's because those kinds of people are audio purists who hate anythingg that makes headphones not sound like headphones. I take their opinions with a grain of bittering agent powder. As in I don't really care for that opinion whatsoever. These are people who heard VSS once, and thought "It sounds way too different from what I'm used to, so it sucks."
> 
> A good virtual surround solution gives the most natural sense of ACTUAL positional cues, that stereo can NEVER ever match. Stereo does not have any frontal/rear positional accuracy. All you get is a line between your head that sounds different if something is either in front of behind you. Virtual surround actually PLACES sounds in front or behind you, where you don't have to take a second to wonder if the sound is is 'front' sound, or 'rear' sound. Again, look at the first page for some examples.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
And what you suggest will be better?
1)Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D
2)Tritton AX 720

I my city I have got only these. And want to try 3d virtual surround sound. May be now it's some new cool Dolby devices, but I tried to find them and zero results. Only devices thats in your first page


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

The Tritton AX720 has a cable that breaks away and reveals 3.5mm input for use with other headphones (at least the ones I've tested years ago). That will give you Dolby Headphone. I prefer that over the Recond3D's virtual surround. AGain, make sure you are WELL aware that virtual surround changes sound quality, and will make headphones not sound like headphones. If you've listened to the videos on the first page and thought they sounded good, they go ahead and give the AX720 a try.

You must make sure the device you get is being fed a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal. DTS or PCM will NOT work for proper virtual surround.


----------



## Rozzko (Mar 19, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Tritton AX720 has a cable that breaks away and reveals 3.5mm input for use with other headphones (at least the ones I've tested years ago). That will give you Dolby Headphone. I prefer that over the Recond3D's virtual surround. AGain, make sure you are WELL aware that virtual surround changes sound quality, and will make headphones not sound like headphones. If you've listened to the videos on the first page and thought they sounded good, they go ahead and give the AX720 a try.
> 
> You must make sure the device you get is being fed a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal. DTS or PCM will NOT work for proper virtual surround.


 I ve got a PS4 and TV Sony , so a signal will go on optical. I really don't know if PS4 send signal in Dolby digital 5.1 or in DTS
P.s. and ax720 main problem is a cable that can be broken? Right? I understand you right? So if its broken or will broke I can't use ax720 with my headphones, right? Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2018)

No, it has a break away. The puck can split in two, and reveals two 3.5mm jacks. One for audio, one for mics.
The PS4, you must go to sound options, make sure sound output is optical, and it's dolby digital 5.1.

edit: THIS thing, splits into two, at the bottom, where the two white lines are.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, it has a break away. The puck can split in two, and reveals two 3.5mm jacks. One for audio, one for mics.
> The PS4, you must go to sound options, make sure sound output is optical, and it's dolby digital 5.1.
> 
> edit: THIS thing, splits into two, at the bottom, where the two white lines are.



Oh, I understand , thanks. 

And what Dolby headphone device you are using now for games?


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, it has a break away. The puck can split in two, and reveals two 3.5mm jacks. One for audio, one for mics.
> The PS4, you must go to sound options, make sure sound output is optical, and it's dolby digital 5.1.
> 
> edit: THIS thing, splits into two, at the bottom, where the two white lines are.



And when I plug it out I can use my normal (not turttle) headphones Jack in one of those 2 ports, right?


----------



## pietcux

Here is the next word from Sennheiser on Gaming:

https://de-de.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-open-acoustic-gsp-500


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ah, the open one. I'm glad I went for the closed one though as I have enough open ones I can use for gaming already, nice to have a closed option as well.


----------



## Evshrug

TeeReQs said:


> I second this. Videos on how to properly setup an X7, Mixamp, GSX, etc. and what settings work best for music, games or movies I think would help a lot of people. The diagrams in the first post are great, but nothing beats seeing how it's done in a well done video. Over the years I've used this thread as home base for any of my gaming audio related needs, and I'm sure many treat it as an invaluable resource as well. A full fledged YouTube channel based on this thread would be excellent.



Ah, you mean like mine, which got in the TENS of views? lol.
I think my problem was I also had some shyness going on, and too busy with my full-time job. So, I didn't put the videos out with any regularity. I managed to get videos out about the DSS (I have a DSS2 as well but it's essentially the same setup), Recon3D (with a call out to my Omni), Mixamp 5.8 (Not sure if I published my wired Mixamp footage), Sound Blaster X7, and an embarrassingly crappy one for my Yamaha receiver (which is easy to setup anyway, as it's just HDMI). I even bought an A16 in anticipation of making a video on that too. I think my X7 video was my best, but ironically I only just got it out before starting freelance work for Sennheiser, where any further videos of the kind I'd like to do would constitute a conflict of interest. It's still something I'm passionate about though, and maybe I can find out an impartial way to do a GSX 1000 review, but right now I'm vicariously using other people to get the word out 




Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was also thinking about doing a weekly Twitch stream (to begin with) where in a schedule, I can stream whatever game but be there to answer all your questions, play with you guys, etc.
> Of course I don't exactly have a web camera so I'll have to look into stuff like that too. Be it one viewer or 100. In any case I need a web camera for youtube anyways.


PS Camera works fairly well, doesn't cost too much  Visually, lighting is the most important deal. The PS Camera also solves some "How do I do a mic?" issues, if you aren't sitting real far back from the screen.

One thing I ran into was how long it took me to do a review. You may have done your Mobius and Stax reviews very fast, but that was also probably a convergence of having free time, inspiration, and it might have been the only thing on your mind at the time. Now that I'm on this side of things, I realize that most reviewers take a month or two to get used to gear and write. Now, if I give myself too much time, the review takes longer and picking it up on different days hurts the flow of the review. What I'd suggest, is maybe do an unboxing vid (short news update, whet the appetite), maybe take a day or two and make a brief first impressions write-up/video, continue listening and taking notes, make a news update video on something you care about (new game, news bite, personal journal moment), and maybe "full" reviews like once a month or every 3 months.

Keep in mind, a creative job is much more than just being creative. People do it every day, but you still gotta put in the effort and hours on the not-fun stuff: Invoicing, contacting vendors or advertising, website maintenance, email correspondence... overhead type stuff. It'll still feel like something you own and are making an achievement in effort, but that sense of accomplishment will also be Dark Souls style where there will be some frustrations and grinding-work along the way.



ZzBOG said:


> A while ago I bought Q701 based on the recommendations in the thread. Thanks a lot @Mad Lust Envy !
> I have a questions now - would HD800 / HD800s be a noticeable upgrade from Q701 in terms of gaming?
> 
> I am using Creative Omni as a sound card, don't really listen to music on headphones (I have speakers for that), so HD800 would be for gaming. Price considerations aside - would there be any noticeable difference? I really just want more immersion + same wide soundstage and location pinpointing as with Q701.. Maybe there are better headphones for that than HD800? I can't do Stax though
> ...


Stax need special amps in addition to your Omni, but most higher end headphones would benefit from amps better than what is built into the Omni anyway. The HD 800's stock cable certainly doesn't plug straight into the Omni...
Is the Sennheiser HD 800 noticeably different from the AKG Q701? It's not really fair for me to make comparisons. I will simply point out that, despite the higher cost, there are tons more reviews of the HD 800, and more experienced reviewers who can paint a more complete impression of the headphone's sound. I also have had the Q701, K712, and K612 for several years each (with many comments on them in this thread, over the years), and while the K612 is the only one I still own at home, it's probably been a year since it's had head-time. I've moved on. Meanwhile, I also just bought new pads and a new, shorter cable for my HD 800.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm hoping to get a chance to listen to the HD800 in some form for review. Perhaps some *cough*Sennheiser reps*cough* can hook up me with lending me the HD800 for reviewing. Though if for inexplicable reason, I don't like them, they can opt out of me reviewing them, and I'll just let you guyys know I wasn't feeling them. I have no doubt this won't be the case however. From everything I've read and heard about them, they should be the next logical upgrade/end game for people who loved the Q701/K702, etc.
> 
> What I'd like from Sennheiser for reviewing, though I really need to get other company products as well, as Sennheiser has a lot on my guide, lol.
> 
> ...



Gesundheit.
(and yeah, the new $2,399 closed back headphone is called the HD 820).



pietcux said:


> Here is the next word from Sennheiser on Gaming:
> https://de-de.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-open-acoustic-gsp-500


There it is! Hoping to publish a press release for Head-Fi soon!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> And when I plug it out I can use my normal (not turttle) headphones Jack in one of those 2 ports, right?



Yes. It is a standasrd headphone jack.



Rozzko said:


> Oh, I understand , thanks.
> 
> And what Dolby headphone device you are using now for games?



I'm using SBX Surround from the Creative X7.


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> Ah, you mean like mine, which got in the TENS of views? lol.
> I think my problem was I also had some shyness going on, and too busy with my full-time job. So, I didn't put the videos out with any regularity. I managed to get videos out about the DSS (I have a DSS2 as well but it's essentially the same setup), Recon3D (with a call out to my Omni), Mixamp 5.8 (Not sure if I published my wired Mixamp footage), Sound Blaster X7, and an embarrassingly crappy one for my Yamaha receiver (which is easy to setup anyway, as it's just HDMI). I even bought an A16 in anticipation of making a video on that too. I think my X7 video was my best, but ironically I only just got it out before starting freelance work for Sennheiser, where any further videos of the kind I'd like to do would constitute a conflict of interest. It's still something I'm passionate about though, and maybe I can find out an impartial way to do a GSX 1000 review, but right now I'm vicariously using other people to get the word out
> 
> PS Camera works fairly well, doesn't cost too much  Visually, lighting is the most important deal. The PS Camera also solves some "How do I do a mic?" issues, if you aren't sitting real far back from the screen.
> ...


Additional issue is those videos weren't linked on this thread next to devices they described so if someone wasn't specifically looking for them they wouldn't be able to find them. I think linking to them in the first post would really help the view count. Also, PS Camera can't be used on PC without some really crazy hacks so I in the long run a proper USB (or HDMI) camera would be nice.

Maybe do a stream review on twitch where you just play a game for a few hours using new gear and tell the viewers your thoughts and observations. Thing I found most difficult when writing reviews was turning a set of loose thoughts and observations into a concise text (you can tell by how chaotic all my writeups were).


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does anyone know of a company that makes affordable headphone cables to order?
I need them sleeved in nylon/cotton (basically cloth like) in any desired length (I need 4,5m or 15ft.) for headphones like the GSP600, HD598CS, HD599, HD700 and K7XX?
I tried Forza and they can make them all in the more expensive series but not in their affordable color series.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Does anyone know of a company that makes affordable headphone cables to order?
> I need them sleeved in nylon/cotton (basically cloth like) in any desired length (I need 4,5m or 15ft.) for headphones like the GSP600, HD598CS, HD599, HD700 and K7XX?
> I tried Forza and they can make them all in the more expensive series but not in their affordable color series.


Mimic Cables


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> Mimic Cables



Looks promising, I'll contact them.
Any other tips anyone?


----------



## PowerUser

Hi everyone, 
I'm having trouble choosing between Audio Technica 700x and Sennheiser 598. Which one do you think I should buy ?


----------



## ZzBOG

Hey guys would GSX1000 be worth it as an upgrade from Sound Blaster Omni?  I have Q701 now. 

I assume I would have to get O2 to plug GSX 1000 into it as well, so I wonder if GSX 1000 would provide a noticeable enough upgrade in terms of surround quality


----------



## AppleheadMay

PowerUser said:


> Hi everyone,
> I'm having trouble choosing between Audio Technica 700x and Sennheiser 598. Which one do you think I should buy ?



I'm partial to Senn but I never heard the AT allthough I owned a lot of woodies way back that I really loved. 
I do like the Senn 598 variants of which I had 2. (there seem to be 3 or 4)



ZzBOG said:


> Hey guys would GSX1000 be worth it as an upgrade from Sound Blaster Omni?  I have Q701 now.
> 
> I assume I would have to get O2 to plug GSX 1000 into it as well, so I wonder if GSX 1000 would provide a noticeable enough upgrade in terms of surround quality



I used to have a SB Recon 3D and like the GSX a lot better. I find it to perform really well for gaming audio without any hassle or configuration.


----------



## ZzBOG

AppleheadMay said:


> I used to have a SB Recon 3D and like the GSX a lot better. I find it to perform really well for gaming audio without any hassle or configuration.




What headphones are you using with GSX1000? Also do I understand correctly - I can plug GSX1000 into O2 (3.5mm out -> 3.5mm in) and still have all the surround stuff?


----------



## AppleheadMay

I tired the 598CS, 599 and 700 so far, straight out of the GSX.
Yes, if you connect the O2 to the phones out ont the GSX, not the speakers out.
I tried that with a 3.5mm to RCA cable to my HDVA 600, the surround sound remains, just more power.


----------



## ZzBOG

AppleheadMay said:


> Yes, if you connect the O2 to the phones out ont the GSX, not the speakers out.



Great thank you


----------



## PowerUser (Mar 20, 2018)

AppleheadMay said:


> I'm partial to Senn but I never heard the AT allthough I owned a lot of woodies way back that I really loved.
> I do like the Senn 598 variants of which I had 2. (there seem to be 3 or 4)


Ok, Thanks. Has anyone tried both of them ?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Got the GSP 600 in finally!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 20, 2018)

Well it will be awhile for vids because the first pair I have for review is the MMX300 which is for headphone.guru first not for headfi.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 20, 2018)

*edit: Nvm, fixed.*

Looks like my X7 is crapping out today. Other than usb, the other sources have a considerable channel imbalance. I may need to get something for consoles, as the left side sounds ok, but the right side sounds like it's coming from near the center.

Just my luck.


----------



## Zyker

Ouch... It's not still under warranty, is it? I've found Creative to be really good with their warranty stuff.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Disregard. I dunno how or WHY, but the X7 decided to have the right channel at 50% while the left channel was at 100%.

I have never ever encountered this problem, and I have obviously never manually lowered one channel for ANY reason.

Anyways, problem solved. Had to turn on my PC to manually go to channel volumes and raise them to 100%. SMFH.


----------



## Stubearblack

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *edit: Nvm, fixed.*
> 
> Looks like my X7 is crapping out today. Other than usb, the other sources have a considerable channel imbalance. I may need to get something for consoles, as the left side sounds ok, but the right side sounds like it's coming from near the center.
> 
> Just my luck.



Happy 8 year anniversary! Lol. I don't know you or anything, but I like your guide and saw that you joined March 20th, 2010.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh wow, it IS my 8th birthday on Headfi. Hahaha.

Thanks.


----------



## PowerUser

Hi, already posted this but I really need an answer.
I'm having trouble choosing between Audio Technica 700x and Sennheiser 598 sr. Which one do you think I should buy ?
I'm gonna use it for gaming on a pc and an xbox one too.


----------



## TeeReQs

I think the 598s are a better all around headphone. AD700x can sound a little tinny, but the positional accuracy is great. I have both 598's and AD700x, and use the 598s as my daily driver. They're more comfortable and fit my head a whole lot better than the Audio Technica.


----------



## PowerUser

TeeReQs said:


> I think the 598s are a better all around headphone. AD700x can sound a little tinny, but the positional accuracy is great. I have both 598's and AD700x, and use the 598s as my daily driver. They're more comfortable and fit my head a whole lot better than the Audio Technica.


Thanks, I'm not looking for a daily driver headphone, I'm just planning on gaming with them, so which one do you think is better for gaming.


----------



## TeeReQs

Well, the 598's are my go to for gaming too. IMO, they are more comfortable, have great positional accuracy and can easily have a mic added to it. I use this with mine:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IRCRCL2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

If you have a larger head, only concerned with positional cues, and don't mind a severe lack of bass, the AD700x might be a better choice. I also own K7XX, and prefer the 598s, mostly due to comfort.


----------



## PowerUser

TeeReQs said:


> Well, the 598's are my go to for gaming too. IMO, they are more comfortable, have great positional accuracy and can easily have a mic added to it. I use this with mine:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IRCRCL2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> If you have a larger head, only concerned with positional cues, and don't mind a severe lack of bass, the AD700x might be a better choice. I also own K7XX, and prefer the 598s, mostly due to comfort.


Ok, thanks for your help.


----------



## Yethal

PowerUser said:


> Hi, already posted this but I really need an answer.
> I'm having trouble choosing between Audio Technica 700x and Sennheiser 598 sr. Which one do you think I should buy ?
> I'm gonna use it for gaming on a pc and an xbox one too.


598 are easier to turn into a headset if you need voice chat. With AD700 you need to either use ModMic and create a two cabled monstrosity or mod the earcup to have a removable cable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 21, 2018)

I also vote 598. I'd say the AD700 variants are for absolute tryhards that think the 598 wouldn't do then justice which I feel is ridiculous.

This is why I stopped giving out scores. If II put 0.5 higher score, that was all some people needed to know without understanding the full situation. A person with an AD700 is not having an advantage over someone with a 598 or vice versa.


----------



## Yethal

Hd598 compatible mic
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B073...21622321&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65


----------



## PowerUser

Yethal said:


> 598 are easier to turn into a headset if you need voice chat. With AD700 you need to either use ModMic and create a two cabled monstrosity or mod the earcup to have a removable cable.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> I also vote 598. I'd say the AD700 variants are for absolute tryhards that think the 598 wouldn't do then justice which I feel is ridiculous.
> 
> This is why I stopped giving out scores. If II put 0.5 higher score, that was all some people needed to know without understanding the full situation. A person with an AD700 is not having an advantage over someone with a 598 or vice versa.


Thanks a lot for your help. I also wanted to know if an xbox one controller can drive the 598 without an amp, since I don't have one.


----------



## raband

Will be fine


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, what do you use for multiple sources? I want to connect at least 3 sources to 1 output, i was thinking of getting a mixer, and then have the audio from the mixer go into my turtle beach DSS 7.1, the problem is that it doesn't make 7.1/5.1 audio with the analog in (3.5mm) input, only through the digital in (optical). Any ideas?


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, what do you use for multiple sources? I want to connect at least 3 sources to 1 output, i was thinking of getting a mixer, and then have the audio from the mixer go into my turtle beach DSS 7.1, the problem is that it doesn't make 7.1/5.1 audio with the analog in (3.5mm) input, only through the digital in (optical). Any ideas?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Optical-Ca...DIF-Audio-Splitter-Junction-Box-/330433600921


----------



## DSebastiao

Yethal said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Optical-Ca...DIF-Audio-Splitter-Junction-Box-/330433600921



The problem with that, is that only 1 of the connections is optical, the one coming from the ps4, one option would be to normally have the output of the mixer in the form of a 3.5mm jack, but then, convert it to optical, but i don't know if it still would work.


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> The problem with that, is that only 1 of the connections is optical, the one coming from the ps4, one option would be to normally have the output of the mixer in the form of a 3.5mm jack, but then, convert it to optical, but i don't know if it still would work.


It's not impossible but converting from optical to 3.5mm to optical again is just stupid.


----------



## DSebastiao

Yethal said:


> It's not impossible but converting from optical to 3.5mm to optical again is just stupid.



The DSS does that for itself, but the things, if i put the dss before the mixer, from what i know, the mixer won't the able to handle the 7.1 audio, so the only option is to really place it after the mixer, and by doing that i get the bonus of also having the sound from the other sources being amplified.


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> The DSS does that for itself, but the things, if i put the dss before the mixer, from what i know, the mixer won't the able to handle the 7.1 audio, so the only option is to really place it after the mixer, and by doing that i get the bonus of also having the sound from the other sources being amplified.


1) Optical doesn't handle 7.1 audio anyway (it only handles up to 5.1 and only if lossy codec such as Dolby Digital or DTS is used)
2) for mechanical switcher it doesn't matter whether the audio is in 2.0 or 5.1, it just disconnects mechanical realy inside.


----------



## DSebastiao

Yethal said:


> 1) Optical doesn't handle 7.1 audio anyway (it only handles up to 5.1 and only if lossy codec such as Dolby Digital or DTS is used)
> 2) for mechanical switcher it doesn't matter whether the audio is in 2.0 or 5.1, it just disconnects mechanical realy inside.



I'm sorry, i wasn't specific enough, yes, Dolby Digital is in use, sometimes might not even be 7.1 but just 5.1.

The point of me using a mixer is to be able to listen to multiple sources at the same time, that's why i'm pushing for the mixer.


----------



## Pairzilla

It was mentioned you can add an amp to the GSX 1000. How do you do it? i'm assuming you plug the amp into the speaker port ? and still use the headphone port on the GSX for your headset?

Also sennheiser has added the GSP 500 which look to be open back. Will this perform better than the 600?


----------



## thewind32

Pairzilla said:


> It was mentioned you can add an amp to the GSX 1000. How do you do it? i'm assuming you plug the amp into the speaker port ? and still use the headphone port on the GSX for your headset?
> 
> Also sennheiser has added the GSP 500 which look to be open back. Will this perform better than the 600?



Connect the headphones out from the GSX 1000 to the input of the second amp. Note that the speaker port only does stereo.


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> I'm sorry, i wasn't specific enough, yes, Dolby Digital is in use, sometimes might not even be 7.1 but just 5.1.
> 
> The point of me using a mixer is to be able to listen to multiple sources at the same time, that's why i'm pushing for the mixer.


In that case, Sound Blaster X7 might be what you're looking for.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 24, 2018)

My TV sends out Dolby Digital through its optical out, so I have everything hooked up to the TV via hdmi, and that goes into my X7 with just one optical cable.

Be wary that many tvs do NOT send anything but 2 channel pcm, so your mileage may vary.

I do have my PC hooked up to the X7 via usb as well, as I like to use my wireless keyboard to control the volume of the X7 even when I'm not using the PC (it has to be on though). My X7 is a little far from me so I can't use the volume knob easily.


----------



## Zyker

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My TV sends out Dolby Digital through its optical out, so I have everything hooked up to the TV via hdmi, and that goes into my X7 with just one optical cable.
> 
> Be wary that many tvs do NOT send anything but 2 channel pcm, so your mileage may vary.
> 
> I do have my PC hooked up to the X7 via usb as well, as I like to use my wireless keyboard to control the volume of the X7 even when I'm not using the PC (it has to be on though). My X7 is a little far from me so I can't use the volume knob easily.


I'm a little bummed that I can't get 5.1 through the X7 using a bluetooth transmitter, but them's the breaks!  The X7 is a fabulous device.


----------



## Tonza (Mar 25, 2018)

My Recon3D seems to be breaking as the sound is clipping in low end on even at decent volume. So I need to replace it.
I am currently using the Philips X1 as my main pair for movies/games etc. which worked great with the Recon3D.

I was thinking of getting Mixamp used but the X7 is quite tempting. I don't have other headphone amps so the X7 would open up new upgrade
possibilities for the X1's as well with its amp. Is the X7 worth it even if my speaker set is a pair of active Audio Pro's? (and lower impedance headphones)
The price of the Mixamp Pro TR is roughly half of X7. (both new)
Current setup with the Recon3D is optical from tv to it. I don't even have headphone output on tv so Im out of luck atm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 25, 2018)

You would never wanna use headphone outs on TVs to begin with.

The X7 is a perfect all in one solution, and I honestly think is a no brainier for those wanting virtual surround, a good amp, AND dac even outside of gaming use.

The software takes a bit to get used to and you'll wanna make sure to update the firmware and drivers from the website to fix the bad traits the X7 had in its infancy.

Since you owned the Recon, the X7 is a logical upgrade as well, since SBX surround is the evolution of THX Tru Studio. It's better.

Your active speakers will also be fine since the X7 has line outs.

Save the money and get the basic X7, since you won't have a real need for the higher power needed for hungrier speakers. The headphone specs are the same, just a lower impedance output which to be honest was already low on the standard X7. I also think the standard X7 looks better than the LE.

The sound will be MUCH cleaner on the X7 vs the Recon3D as well. I remember the distortion on the Recon at times. The X7 is audiophile friendly, in terms of SQ.


----------



## Tonza

Thanks, appreciate the advice.

I think I'll have to go with the X7. When I got the Recon3D, the X7 just came out and I thought about it but couldn't afford it at the time.


----------



## Evshrug

I would just like to preface this post by explaining the time stamp: I don't feel tired, and maybe that's weird ^_^'`



AppleheadMay said:


> Does anyone know of a company that makes affordable headphone cables to order?
> I need them sleeved in nylon/cotton (basically cloth like) in any desired length (I need 4,5m or 15ft.) for headphones like the GSP600, HD598CS, HD599, HD700 and K7XX?
> I tried Forza and they can make them all in the more expensive series but not in their affordable color series.


For 3.5mm plug cables (or cables with slim headphone-side connectors) that are already OK but you wish for a cloth cover, or you want to accessorize with different cloth colors, you might be able to buy some paracord. Cut the paracord to the desired length, pull out the inner strings, and then you can thread the cable through the outer paracord wrap. I would probably cut the paracord to the length of the plug-to-Y-split, or long enough to cover from the plug all the way to one ear cup then cut a hole at the y-split length and let the other ear cup's wire out at that point, and cover the other ear cup's wire in a different color so it's easier to tell left from right 

I've got a really nice and much shorter (Balanced with Pentaconn!) cable by Wireworld coming in on Tuesday for my HD 800 (and any future headphones with the same connector). My amp is less than an arm's length away from me at my desk, so having less cable spaghetti to coil up will be nice. And although I feel the single-ended cable that came with my HD 800 is pretty nice, I had a friend bring his single-ended cable that costs half the total cost of an HD 800 S with him to let me hear it, and I was shocked then to find that it sounded like it was letting more of the signal to come through, for a clearer, more distinct sound. At that price, it SHOULD make a difference, but the difference was immediately apparent the second I first heard it, no careful A/B studying required to suss out the differences. The frequency response didn't change much at all, it was more like someone had given me nice glasses or contacts for my ears, better clarity and contrast. In hindsight, it makes sense... if we know some cables sound "_bad"_ and others sound "_better_" (original Philips X1 cable, it was very popular to replace it with a V-MODA cable), then it follows that some cables will be "_more_" better (sorry about the bad grammar there, but it makes my point). Unfortunately, a replacement or pricey cable isn't a guarantee of upgraded sound quality. I went into the audition with my friend's cable (DanaCable) totally thinking any difference could just be placebo/psychoacoustics, because in the past I've tried replacement cables and "upgrade" cables that seemed more like side grades. You really have to audition for yourself, or ask a trusted source, to find a brand and price that will provide a substantial upgrade over the usually-good cables that come with headphones. Otherwise, if you just need a cable because yours is broken or ergonomically annoying (like how mine is too long), that's cool too. Just don't expect something around $100 or made of Mogami microphone wire to sound much better than what you already have.

Maybe I'll give impressions of the Wireworld when it arrives. I actually haven't heard this cable myself yet, but it was recommended by the same friend who brought the DanaCable and more in my price range.




ZzBOG said:


> What headphones are you using with GSX1000? Also do I understand correctly - I can plug GSX1000 into O2 (3.5mm out -> 3.5mm in) and still have all the surround stuff?


Ooooh, a PC37X, GAME ZERO, HD 599, HD 650, HD 58X, whatever's closest or whatever someone asks me to describe. And I have connected my GSX 1000's 3.5mm HEADPHONE out jack to my Cavalli Liquid Carbon and Sennheiser HD 820 (the Mama Jamba!) to listen with my HD 800 before; as long as you use the GSX's headphone output, the Binaural Surround processing will still be intact in the signal.


----------



## Sennheiser (Mar 26, 2018)

Pairzilla said:


> It was mentioned you can add an amp to the GSX 1000. How do you do it? i'm assuming you plug the amp into the speaker port ? and still use the headphone port on the GSX for your headset?
> 
> Also sennheiser has added the GSP 500 which look to be open back. Will this perform better than the 600?


It depends on what you need.

It takes more engineering to make a closed back, and even then there's _usually _some resonance. The driver (speaker) in a headphone emits sound in all directions (actually, so do all vibrations), but some of these "extra" waves of energy escape out the back of open headphones, while the rear cups of closed headphones cause the sound waves to echo back (and sometimes cause the cups themselves to vibrate) and you'll hear the sound twice with a tiny delay. Closed headphones also have leather or pleather earpads instead of velour.

The most obvious and main appeal of a closed headphone is the seal against outside noise intruding in (people talking, air conditioning, fans in gaming consoles), and noise leaking out (disturbing others, or providing the audio equivalent of "Screen looking!"). Less obvious is that a closed headphone can actually use that trapped air to reinforce the bass, making it easier to develop stronger bass that can also extend deeper into the sub-bass ranges. Finally, and Mad Lust Envy will like this, the GSP 600 pads are also hybrid pads, with a soft suede-like material where the earpads make contact with your skin.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Evshrug said:


> I would just like to preface this post by explaining the time stamp: I don't feel tired, and maybe that's weird ^_^'`
> 
> 
> For 3.5mm plug cables (or cables with slim headphone-side connectors) that are already OK but you wish for a cloth cover, or you want to accessorize with different cloth colors, you might be able to buy some paracord. Cut the paracord to the desired length, pull out the inner strings, and then you can thread the cable through the outer paracord wrap. I would probably cut the paracord to the length of the plug-to-Y-split, or long enough to cover from the plug all the way to one ear cup then cut a hole at the y-split length and let the other ear cup's wire out at that point, and cover the other ear cup's wire in a different color so it's easier to tell left from right
> ...



I'm really only after a cheap, ready made cable. I hardly believe in upgraded cables for my music headphones, let alone for my gaming ones.
All I need is 4.5m and soft cloth, not rubber or hard nylon. And affordable, that's why I mentioned the color series but I don't really care for the color and actually prefer black.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser said:


> It depends on what you need.
> 
> It takes more engineering to make a closed back, and even then there's usually some resonance. The driver (speaker) in a headphone emits sound in all directions (actually, so do all vibrations), but some of these "extra" waves of energy escape out the back of open headphones, while the rear cups of closed headphones cause the sound waves to echo back (and sometimes cause the cups themselves to vibrate) and you'll hear the sound twice with a tiny delay. Closed headphones also have leather or pleather earpads instead of velour.
> 
> The most obvious and main appeal of a closed headphone is the seal against outside noise intruding in (people talking, air conditioning, fans in gaming consoles), and noise leaking out (disturbing others, or providing the audio equivalent of "Screen looking!"). Less obvious is that a closed headphone can actually use that trapped air to reinforce the bass, making it easier to develop stronger bass that can also extend deeper into the sub-bass ranges. Finally, and Mad Lust Envy will like this, the GSP 600 pads are also hybrid pads, with a soft suede-like material where the earpads make contact with your skin.


Ooh color me very excite


----------



## Zyker

Sennheiser said:


> It depends on what you need.
> 
> It takes more engineering to make a closed back, and even then there's usually some resonance. The driver (speaker) in a headphone emits sound in all directions (actually, so do all vibrations), but some of these "extra" waves of energy escape out the back of open headphones, while the rear cups of closed headphones cause the sound waves to echo back (and sometimes cause the cups themselves to vibrate) and you'll hear the sound twice with a tiny delay. Closed headphones also have leather or pleather earpads instead of velour.
> 
> The most obvious and main appeal of a closed headphone is the seal against outside noise intruding in (people talking, air conditioning, fans in gaming consoles), and noise leaking out (disturbing others, or providing the audio equivalent of "Screen looking!"). Less obvious is that a closed headphone can actually use that trapped air to reinforce the bass, making it easier to develop stronger bass that can also extend deeper into the sub-bass ranges. Finally, and Mad Lust Envy will like this, the GSP 600 pads are also hybrid pads, with a soft suede-like material where the earpads make contact with your skin.



Whaaaat... you can't do this to me when I was already set on a Mobius!  Now I'm all conflicted and doubting!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Zyker said:


> Whaaaat... you can't do this to me when I was already set on a Mobius!  Now I'm all conflicted and doubting!



These phones were anounced a while before the Mobius and the 600 has already been available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Zyker said:


> Whaaaat... you can't do this to me when I was already set on a Mobius!  Now I'm all conflicted and doubting!


The Mobius is a wireless planarmagnetic.  That alone puts it over the top for me. That being said, I'm still interested in the other stuff as always.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 26, 2018)

So I gave HESuVi's surround sound plug ins a test: (thanks to @Fegefeuer )

Alright so I did some testing (make sure you do it IN game, and not with the test button in the equalizer apo).

I really like:

Dolby Atmos
SBX (Overall still my top pick)
GSX
Dolby Home Theater V4

I think these 4 are all anyone would really need. Dolby Headphone 2 in the plug in was a bit too reverb heavy. I don't remember it being that bad.

I still think Dolby Headphone 2's rear sounds are the easiest to identify as rear, but SBX is 2nd. The others do well enough where I wouldn't complain. I think GSX is really good too, though there was something off about them here. I'm sure a device with GSX would be as good as SBX to me.

To my surprise I found that CMSS3D had one or two presets that work well enough (though I don't like the tuning), as well as Razer Surround. Most of the others all had respectable sound positional cues, but man, the sound tuning was crap.

All in all, I think any virtualization worth two cents can do a good job.

The biggest surprise was DTX Headphone X. Man, I did NOT like it at all. The rear cues were lacking and I didn't like the way the sound.

I also think removing reverb completely (there are certain presets without reverb) is detrimental in the surround experience. Yes it's cleaner, but I think a little reverb goes a long way in terms of sound immersion. SBX is a classic case where the little it has is trivial compared to the benefits.


Here are Fege's instructions (I had to turn off my anti-virus for the hesuvi download to install):

_This is the main page. https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

Installation is very easy


Equalizer APO. A configurator will open at the end of the installation and you are asked to select devices for which the APO is to be set up. Tick the box in front of your default device (see the Status column for that) and finalize the installation – but do not reboot._

_Download and install HeSuVi. Unpack it into Equalizer APO's config folder. The HeSuVi installer will automatically point to the correct folder if you didn't change Equalizer APO's install folder._

_HeSuVi should open and you can click on *Restart Audio* in the bottom left if you didn't reboot in step one._

_Click the *Open Windows Sound Panel* button next. Select your default device there, click the *Properties* button in the bottom right corner and change the sampling rate to 48000 Hz from the *Default Format* dropdown under *Advanced*. Save with *OK*._

_Configure your playback device to surround sound by clicking on *Configure* in the lower left corner of the Sound Panel window. Select *7.1 Surround*(or anything above 3 channels) and follow through with the configuration untill the window closes._


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> I'm really only after a cheap, ready made cable. I hardly believe in upgraded cables for my music headphones, let alone for my gaming ones.
> All I need is 4.5m and soft cloth, not rubber or hard nylon. And affordable, that's why I mentioned the color series but I don't really care for the color and actually prefer black.


Mimic cables are the way to go man.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> Mimic cables are the way to go man.



Yep, certainly keeping those as my alternative option. 
Wrote back to Forza first to see if he can make the cables I need in his copper series instead of the color series.
If that doesn’t work it ‘ll be Mimic.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Yep, certainly keeping those as my alternative option.
> Wrote back to Forza first to see if he can make the cables I need in his copper series instead of the color series.
> If that doesn’t work it ‘ll be Mimic.


I have cables from Mimic and Forza and can't say enough good things about both of them. Mimic is the only company I heard about that makes custom keyboard and mouse cables.


----------



## thewind32

Could this be related to the GSX 1000 in any way? I was about to purchase one for myself...


----------



## Zyker

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Mobius is a wireless planarmagnetic.  That alone puts it over the top for me. That being said, I'm still interested in the other stuff as always.


That's true... but new stuff is always so much fun!  The Mobius is pretty unique in what it so, so I'm still plenty pumped for it.


----------



## Azurik

thewind32 said:


> Could this be related to the GSX 1000 in any way? I was about to purchase one for myself...


Hopefully a GSX console version!


----------



## Fegefeuer

hopefully an optical out so we can enjoy GSX with our own equipment


----------



## Yethal

Hopefully HDMI as primary audio source instead of optical


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yethal said:


> Hopefully HDMI as primary audio source instead of optical



Indeed. I haven't needed to use optical for ages here.


----------



## Yethal

It's time to move on from Dolby Digital for good.


----------



## Azurik

True. However they would have to update the GSX with 4k and HDR passthrough. Considering the current costs of capable splitters etc, it shouldn't drive the costs up too much. Only problem would be more cables connected to the box: power lead, HDMI in/ out and of course the headphone lead. 

I wouldn't mind if Sennheiser came up with something like the ossic or mobius. Only problem with that would be the neglect of consoles as they don't deliver 7.1 via USB.


----------



## Yethal

Azurik said:


> True. However they would have to update the GSX with 4k and HDR passthrough. Considering the current costs of capable splitters etc, it shouldn't drive the costs up too much. Only problem would be more cables connected to the box: power lead, HDMI in/ out and of course the headphone lead.
> 
> I wouldn't mind if Sennheiser came up with something like the ossic or mobius. Only problem with that would be the neglect of consoles as they don't deliver 7.1 via USB.


We'd still need a USB lead for chat audio so maybe it could be USB powered.


----------



## Stubearblack

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh wow, it IS my 8th birthday on Headfi. Hahaha.
> 
> Thanks.



Haha and of course someone had to go and change your join date to March 19th. Jerky behavior lol.


----------



## AppleheadMay

PC37X now on Massdrop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stubearblack said:


> Haha and of course someone had to go and change your join date to March 19th. Jerky behavior lol.



What the? Hmm, what's going on, @AxelCloris , are you trolling me?


----------



## Sennheiser

thewind32 said:


> Could this be related to the GSX 1000 in any way? I was about to purchase one for myself...



More of a social thing, not a new product.


----------



## Azurik

Sennheiser said:


> More of a social thing, not a new product.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What the? Hmm, what's going on, @AxelCloris , are you trolling me?


There are so many easier ways to troll you than going into the database and manually changing your signup date.


----------



## make_moneys

Hello there
First time posting here. I wanted to ask about the GSP 600 as I noticed several users in here that own this pair.
I am mainly interested in their soundstage / positional sound for multiplayer gaming like BF1, COD, etc and I wanted to ask how do they fare given that they are closed compared to a similarly priced open cans like the Sennheiser HD 598 SR ?
I am looking to run them with the onboard dac /amp that comes with my motherboard (Aorus z370 gaming 7) which i would expect to be at least above average.
Also any other thoughts like - comfort, etc and whether its worth waiting for the gsp 500 for the "better" soundstage? I dont have a need for closed back headphones so i will be fine with either as long as i get the best positional sound

Thank you


----------



## Azurik

Do we know what drivers the GSP series is based on? Are they a new design or based on an existing series? I'm looking at the gsp500 and wondered how the would compare with the 598/ 599


----------



## make_moneys

FWIW here's an early review of the GSP 500 vs 600 although not sure the reviewer truly understands the open back concept lol.


----------



## AppleheadMay

make_moneys said:


> FWIW here's an early review of the GSP 500 vs 600 although not sure the reviewer truly understands the open back concept lol.




That guy clearly has no idea hwat he's doing or talking about.
But at least he tried the item he "reviews" which can't be said from the PC Mag reviewers.


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
Does Tritton AX 720 will  AMP Fidelio x2 from PS4? 
i need an AMP for Fidelio x2, and i want to try dolby surround. Does Tritton AX720 has small amp to swing heaphones(make more power/volume) ??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have found the humble beginnings of my audiophile journey!

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/141-xbox-area/894251-what-gaming-headphones-buy-61.html#post14261629

The 2nd post on this page. Shin CZ (that's me, though now I have an account there as Raven Crimson since I lost all log in info on this one).

Man, I sound like every misinformed newbie here. 

Wow, 7-10-2008. It has been almost 10 years since I asked about surround headphones.


----------



## DSebastiao

Does anyone know if i can send 7.1 or 5.1 Dolby Digital audio to a mixer input and still have it the same on the output? Like, will the mixer preserve the sound?


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> Does anyone know if i can send 7.1 or 5.1 Dolby Digital audio to a mixer input and still have it the same on the output? Like, will the mixer preserve the sound?


No.


----------



## pietcux (Mar 28, 2018)

On the GSP 600, we know that Sennheiser tells these are new drivers. As I do not own the requested HD5.. cans I cannot comment a comparison. They are decent for gaming even in stereo mode all virtualisation disabled. They have angled drivers and are easy to drive. Very good also for music, though not quite on HD650/660S level. They are a bit brighter for the fine derails needed to hear your enemies.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DSebastiao said:


> Does anyone know if i can send 7.1 or 5.1 Dolby Digital audio to a mixer input and still have it the same on the output? Like, will the mixer preserve the sound?


Unsure what you mean here. The Creative X7 has options to allow untouched passthroughs, as well as options that will allow SBX surround to be sent into the RCA output. Other than that not sure what you're asking.


----------



## Rozzko

Anyone help please( my question few posts upper)


----------



## DSebastiao

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Unsure what you mean here. The Creative X7 has options to allow untouched passthroughs, as well as options that will allow SBX surround to be sent into the RCA output. Other than that not sure what you're asking.



I wish i could go to the X7, don't remember who reccomended it to me but it's way out of my budget, i'm starting to realise that i really won't be able to combine multiple sources with at least one of them being 5.1/7.1 and will have to do separate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2018)

Rozzko said:


> Anyone help please( my question few posts upper)


I'm almost 100% certain you asked me about the AX720 and I had already told you the answer. I told you that the puck where the volume control is splits and reveals a microphone and headphone jack so you can use any headphone with it. It will work with the X2.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm almost 100% certain you asked me about the AX720 and I had already told you the answer. I told you that the puck where the volume control is splits and reveals a microphone and headphone jack so you can use any headphone with it. It will work with the X2.


i understand that it will work. but did Tritton have a AMP to power fidelio x2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It IS an amp. Not the best, but X2 isn't a hard to drive headphone. And fyi, any device with a headphone jack has an internal amp, including your phone.


----------



## make_moneys (Mar 28, 2018)

pietcux said:


> On the GSP 600, we know that Sennheiser tells these are new drivers. As I do not own the requested HD5.. cans I cannot comment a comparison. They are decent for gaming even in stereo mode all virtualisation disabled. They have angled drivers and are easy to drive. Very good also for music, though not quite on HD650/660S level. They are a bit brighter for the fine derails needed to hear your enemies.



Thank you sir. This helps. I was asking because I actually have a gsp 600 coming in the mail tomorrow from amazon that i preordered months ago. I also just ordered an hd 598 and a game one for comparison. I want to see if those open cans can produce a better positional sound in games (Battlefield 1 is my go to game and I will try perhaps some Vermintide 2). If they do then i will likely wait for the GSP 500 as opposed to keeping the GSP 600. I will try all 3 in both stereo and VSS ( through Creative 720 software that came with my board)  Currently coming from an Astro A50 so either of those 3 will be an improvement lol.


----------



## Azurik

make_moneys said:


> Thank you sir. This helps. I was asking because I actually have a gsp 600 coming in the mail tomorrow from amazon that i preordered months ago. I also just ordered an hd 598 and a game one for comparison. I want to see if those open cans can produce a better positional sound in games (Battlefield 1 is my go to game and I will try perhaps some Vermintide 2). If they do then i will likely wait for the GSP 500 as opposed to keeping the GSP 600. I will try all 3 in both stereo and VSS ( through Creative 720 software that came with my board)  Currently coming from an Astro A50 so either of those 3 will be an improvement lol.


Looking forward to it as I'm in the same boat: wait for gsp500, or get the 598/599. Don't really need mic but the lower impedance of the 500 might be more beneficial


----------



## pietcux

Azurik said:


> Looking forward to it as I'm in the same boat: wait for gsp500, or get the 598/599. Don't really need mic but the lower impedance of the 500 might be more beneficial


But you saw the video, not loud enough...lol. The guy must be kinda deaf from clubbing or live music.


----------



## Azurik

pietcux said:


> But you saw the video, not loud enough...lol. The guy must be kinda deaf from clubbing or live music.



I don't understand how this guy always gets review units when he has clearly no clue. Why would anybody send him anything for review. I guess manufactures have no time to check reviewers for credibility and competence.


----------



## pietcux

Azurik said:


> I don't understand how this guy always gets review units when he has clearly no clue. Why would anybody send him anything for review. I guess manufactures have no time to check reviewers for credibility and competence.


At least he can count.


----------



## make_moneys

pietcux said:


> But you saw the video, not loud enough...lol. The guy must be kinda deaf from clubbing or live music.



He lost me when he said he will only recommend them for guys with bigger heads because "thats what its about " lol I had a good laugh. Yeah I call BS on not being loud enough. he mentions that he is using a Z370 motherboard which means he is likely using an ALC 1220 audio chipset which should be more than enough to drive them as its Realtek's latest iteration.


----------



## Evshrug

make_moneys said:


> FWIW here's an early review of the GSP 500 vs 600 although not sure the reviewer truly understands the open back concept lol.




I prefer the YouTube review by Hardware Canucks. BY FAR.


----------



## Rederonik

Hey, im currently looking for new headphones vs mic.
After like 5 years every day use mine DT 770 Limited 32Ohm died, so now i need find a replacement. I have 350$ +/- 50$ to spend for headset or headphones vs something like ModMic 5, coz currently im using mic from my logitech webcam and its not that bad, but if i set it to voise activation, ambient noise and keyboard near it blows all in discord away 
As soundcard im using Creative AE-5, and looking for not that bright headphones, as DT770 vs good mid, and good base that not overwhelming.
Mostly im will be using it like 50% gaming, 30% music and 20% movies.
What im currently looking is GSP-600 as versatile headset, i can get it for around 300$ or something like AKG K712 PRO + ModMic 5, those combo i can get for around 350$. For sound quality i guess 2nd will be far better, but not that versatile and mic not that good as sennheiser offer. Open or closed is not important.
What other options do I have?

P.S. Sorry for my english


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug said:


> I prefer the YouTube review by Hardware Canucks. BY FAR.



They have some solid vids. Been watching them for years. Glad to see the Game One is his reference for mic quality. Lol.


----------



## pietcux

Rederonik said:


> Hey, im currently looking for new headphones vs mic.
> After like 5 years every day use mine DT 770 Limited 32Ohm died, so now i need find a replacement. I have 350$ +/- 50$ to spend for headset or headphones vs something like ModMic 5, coz currently im using mic from my logitech webcam and its not that bad, but if i set it to voise activation, ambient noise and keyboard near it blows all in discord away
> As soundcard im using Creative AE-5, and looking for not that bright headphones, as DT770 vs good mid, and good base that not overwhelming.
> Mostly im will be using it like 50% gaming, 30% music and 20% movies.
> ...


I had the K702 for some time in the past. It was good but not great. I suggest you go grab the GSP 600 or the GSP 500. They are good for all things you want to do and easy to drive. They represent the best solution for your requirement in my opinion.


----------



## zeroselect

I run a Fidelio X2 an by far from my collection has been my go to for FPS games (mostly BF1). The soundstage and imaging for gaming is so far been the best i have used. Not the best for music. Have a set of Campfire Vega, and Cascades for that.

Make sure to get a decent dac and amp to get the most out of them. Currently running a JDS Labs Element as a dac and running it into a Emotiva A100 BasX for the amp.


----------



## QonYouTube

Hi there,

Just looking for some advice.

Recently I had to sell a pair of Sony MDR Ma900s along with my Creative Sound Blaster X7.

As I was so happy with my headphones, I wasn't really following any headphone trends etc. and am unaware of what is currently available on the market.

So I am just looking for some advice regarding what headphone I should look to target now, while I hunt for a pair of Ma900s again.

In addition I am also looking for another surround sound decoder for PS4 and PC.

Any suggestions, I have been looking at the HD598, and also noticed a new HD599 model, any significant differences between them? 

And any suggestions for a X7 substitute, as I don't feel that the X7 is as necessary a piece of kit that I desperately need, and feel the price point is no longer competitive as it will just be for console, so long as it can also connect to PC, so I can also output PC audio through the same cans simultaneously with console.

My main objective is sound whoring in competitive FPS.

Thank you in advance guys.


----------



## make_moneys (Mar 29, 2018)

Azurik said:


> Looking forward to it as I'm in the same boat: wait for gsp500, or get the 598/599. Don't really need mic but the lower impedance of the 500 might be more beneficial



Im still waiting on my gsp 600 coming in the mail today but initial impressions of the 598 vs game one are that i really like the game ones. the 598s have literally no bass (like every explosion in BF1 is like meh), not as well built as the game ones (not a fan of the faux leather), i'm not a fan of the rubber cord (as opposed to braided on the game one). they do have a slightly wider soundstage then the game ones (although i had no issues with either with sound whoring in BF1 lol) , and they as slightly more comfortable, but i think overall the game ones are such well rounded headsets striking that balance between soundstage, "fun" rich sound, build quality, comfort etc.  I am gonna post a full review of all 3 with my system specs, pictures (maybe ill do a video)  etc but i suspect its gonna be a fierce fight for me between the game ones that i really enjoy and the gsp 600 but we shall see. .


----------



## make_moneys (Mar 31, 2018)

Hello

Here is my "non-audiophile" review of the 3 headsets that I recently purchased - *GSP 600, HD 598SR, and Game One* (all by Sennheiser). Rated from least favorite to my favorite. For sound source I used the onboard sound package that came with the Gigabyte Aorus Z370 gaming 7 motherboard , which is Realtek ALC 1220+ ESS Sabre 9018 DAC.
I mainly tested these headsets in Battlefield 1 and Vermintide 2 with Battlefield 1 profile enabled in settings and with the headphone amp set to "on" and level 3.Volume percentage was at around 50% to 70%. Anything beyond that they sounded way too loud for me.


​*Sennheiser HD 598*


Build Quality and looks

Decent build with faux leather  and velour ear cups. Overall it seemed sturdy enough. Minimalistic looks all black with some silver accents. Rubber cables and probably the hardest cable to unplug and plug back in. Perfect fit for pretty much any setting.

Sound Quality

Best sound stage , great for gaming, crisp clear sound. The lack of a decent amount of bass may be an issue for some looking for that immersive experience in some action games with lots of explosions and gunfire. However spotting enemies on the battlefield with this headset is super easy.

Comfort

Very comfortable, minimal amount of clamping force, a decent amount of padding but the headset seemed very light. Minimal adjustments to the headband. The earcups dont rotate but same goes for the other 2.
​

*Sennheiser Game one*

Build Quality and looks

Better build quality with thicker/higher quality plastics and more padding. Velour on the top and on the earcups. Very similar design on the earcups compared to the HD598.  Overall it seemed fairly sturdy. Braided cable is a huge plus in my book because its much softer and matches the rest of my peripherals. Minimalistic looks in all black with some red accents. Perfect fit for most settings

Sound Quality

Not as good sound stage as the HD598 but a very close second, and definitely great for multiplayer gaming with crisp clear sound and a decent amount of bass, a very neutral sound signature but I really liked it. I had no issues spotting enemies, hearing footsteps etc. A decent amount of bass makes it so that you can hear every explosion in all of its glory. Very immersive experience in Battlefield 1. I also really like the sound volume because you can easily adjust the volume while gaming. Note that the sound doesn't really turn all the way off with these headsets.

Comfort

Not as comfortable as the HD598 but a very close second. Clamping force seemed a little higher but i did not experience any pain after hours of gaming. Minimal adjustments to the headband. The earcups dont rotate.

​


*Sennheiser GSP 600*

Build Quality and looks

Best build quality with thicker/higher quality plastics and more padding. Some sort of thick memory foam on the top and a combination of faux leather,  memory foam and some other soft materials on the earcups. The earcups are oval shaped and feel very good. Braided cable (nicer than the Game One’s) is a huge plus in my book because its much softer and matches the rest of my peripherals. Looks are a bit subjective with this one. I personally like the looks just as much as I like the looks of the other 2 headsets but Sennheiser definitely steered far and away from the minimalistic design of the previous game series headsets.



Sound Quality

Great sound stage i would say somewhere about the same as the HD598s I would say maybe not quire there but unless you are switching between these 2 headsets while gaming you will not be able to notice a difference at least not a difference that would favor the HD598.. The overall sound was a bit more crisp and richer than the Game one with a better bass (no rumbling but very clean and powerful), very immersive. I enjoyed every single gun fire and explosion in Battlefield 1 while wearing these. I honestly expected them to have worse sound positioning than the other 2 headsets I bought but that was not the case. They sounded very good to me and I had no issues spotting enemies and just turning the player around in game I was able to spot where the action was coming from. The volume dial was abit of a hit or miss compared to the Game one. Its stiffer which means its nicer to "fine tune" the volume but at the same time if you are trying to adjust them while gaming it may not be as quick as the game one (minor gripe but wanted to mention it).

Comfort

Decent amount of comfort with adjustments to the headband and head pressure. Sennheier made something very unique here because even though these headsets have the strongest amount of clamping force they actually dont hurt your head after several hours of gaming due to those adjustments on the headband. I had mine all the way to maximum though. My ears got fairly warm after a few hours of gaming but no sweating and no pain.   I think they require some “break in” period because the more I was wearing them the more comfortable they felt (although switching over to the other 2 headsets they felt much lighter and more comfortable).

​
Closing thoughts

Mic quality was fine on both Game one and GSP 600. I asked folks in chat and everybody heard me fine so no issues there.The fact that you can hear your voice with Game one is very nice.  I didn't spend much time reviewing the mic, sorry but both sound very similar based on the feedback I got.
I would strongly recommend some above average sound source at least a decent dac/amp to really take advantage of these headsets. I ran them without the built in amp feature (theres a way to disable this in software) and that made a fairly significant difference in sound.

I will be keeping the GSP 600 although I will definitely recommend trying out all 3 headsets before buying. This stuff is so subjective is not even funny. For me it was a fairly tough decision between the gsp and game one. Price may also be a huge factor as the difference in price currently in the US is about $100 and you will have a tough time convincing me that the GSP 600 are worth $100 more but sales and whatnot may change this.
I also plan on trying out the GSP 500. I was intrigued by how good the game one sounded and how comfortable they were and i would not be surprise if i end up with a pair of GSP 500 for gaming but for now I think im happy with gsp 600 and i highly recommend them.
​


----------



## pietcux

make_moneys said:


> Hello
> 
> Here is my "non-audiophile" review of the 3 headsets that I recently purchased. Rated from least favorite to my favorite
> 
> ...


Great review , it mirrors my own experience. Only my ears never got warm under the GSP 600 so far. But we are still in early spring here. Let's see what the summer will bring.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It IS an amp. Not the best, but X2 isn't a hard to drive headphone. And fyi, any device with a headphone jack has an internal amp, including your phone.


Okay, thanks

And what about things like that? I hear everything in 3D just plug my headphones in Mobile phone. It's trully 3D


----------



## Qwertz97

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I gave HESuVi's surround sound plug ins a test: (thanks to @Fegefeuer )
> 
> Alright so I did some testing (make sure you do it IN game, and not with the test button in the equalizer apo).
> 
> ...



Hi, 
They are several SBX options, 33, 67 and 100 which one did you prefer?


----------



## weebull

u wonder how the headtraking would work with vr applications such as the oculus rift


----------



## Fegefeuer

Qwertz97 said:


> Hi,
> They are several SBX options, 33, 67 and 100 which one did you prefer?



I use the 100 setting, gives me the best immersion/stage/encirclement and I find the loss very marginal since i'm surrounded BY LOVE, BEAUTY, DEATH AND TERROR.
remember to update HeSuVi regularly for improvements and additional filters! https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/files/?source=navbar

you can also delete filters you don't like or need under \EqualizerAPO\config\HeSuVi\hrir


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 1, 2018)

Qwertz97 said:


> Hi,
> They are several SBX options, 33, 67 and 100 which one did you prefer?


I didn't bother with 33 and 67 because like my X7 which has SBX, I prefer it at 100. The lesser the amount, the less soundstage and space, which I didn't wanna reduce. The HeSuVi version of SBX sounds like the real thing, just a little quieter vs the X7.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 1, 2018)

Rozzko said:


> Okay, thanks
> 
> And what about things like that? I hear everything in 3D just plug my headphones in Mobile phone. It's trully 3D




That is pre-recorded binaural audio.  You will hear 3d. Just like the videos on the first page are pre-recorded virtual surround. Don't understand what you mean here otherwise?


----------



## accelerando

Would you be able to give me brief comparison of the Mobius to the AD700? How's the clamp, weight, and overall comfort level in comparison?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yoou're asking me to compare a headphone I owned about 8 years ago to one I tested a few weeks ago, lol. All I can say is the AD700 has non-existent clamp (which IMHO is a BAD thing). The AD700 weighs 280g from what I see, and the Mobius is 350g. The Mobius is light for a Planarmagnetic, but not exactly the lightest headphones compared to dynamics like the AD700.

As for comfort, I'm pretty sure you can extrapolate my thoughts from the Mobius impressions and what I thought of the slipping and sliding AD700 which couldn't sit still on my head.

Unpopular opinion: I don't like Audio Technica's wing design for their headbands. I HATE it. The Mobius feels like a standard headphone, with comfy pads. Winner in comfort: Mobius.


----------



## accelerando (Apr 2, 2018)

A comparison is better than no comparison. The AD700 don't really slip around on my head, my head isn't big either.

One thing I'm worried about with the Mobius is the detachable cable and the durability of the port.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't currently have the Mobius (I'll be receiving an updated version sooner than later), but I don't remember thinking the aux port being flimsy or anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the aux cable was a standard 3.5mm cable, which means you can find easy replacements if need be. May be a cable with a mic channel. Not sure. Perhaps I said something as such in my impressions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm sorry for the late response to this, but thank you for your review of these. Very well written.  While I don't currently have any guest reviews on my guide, I would recommend you also pasting your reviews to each respective headphones on the forums for more exposure. It'd be a shame if you didn't.



make_moneys said:


> Hello
> 
> Here is my "non-audiophile" review of the 3 headsets that I recently purchased - *GSP 600, HD 598SR, and Game One* (all by Sennheiser). Rated from least favorite to my favorite. For sound source I used the onboard sound package that came with the Gigabyte Aorus Z370 gaming 7 motherboard , which is Realtek ALC 1220+ ESS Sabre 9018 DAC.
> I mainly tested these headsets in Battlefield 1 and Vermintide 2 with Battlefield 1 profile enabled in settings and with the headphone amp set to "on" and level 3.Volume percentage was at around 50% to 70%. Anything beyond that they sounded way too loud for me.
> ...


----------



## b0r0b (Apr 3, 2018)

Hey a


----------



## accelerando

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't currently have the Mobius (I'll be receiving an updated version sooner than later), but I don't remember thinking the aux port being flimsy or anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the aux cable was a standard 3.5mm cable, which means you can find easy replacements if need be. May be a cable with a mic channel. Not sure. Perhaps I said something as such in my impressions.



What about the USB cable? Those ports are usually what go bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's type C. I'm someone known to absolutely wreck micro usb ports, and I'm SOOOOO happy the world has FINALLY started to move on from it. Type C ports look MUCH more reliable. At least I hope. In any case, it looks fine on the Mobius, IMHO.


----------



## Hyperpapa

Hi Mad Lust Envy, 

Thanks for making this thorough and detailed guide!

Would you prefer the AKG 712 or the Beyerdynamic DT 990 for gaming? 

And is an AMP (or anything else) absolutely neccessary for using the headsets with the PS4 controller?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

712. I wouldn't attach an amp to the PS4 controller. It's a poor source. I would suggest a dac/amp from the PS4's optical out instead. If the PS4 still had an RCA out, I wouldve said at the very least an amp, but they removed that option after ps3.

I don't think the ps4 controller would power either the 712 or dt990 loud enough alone either.


----------



## b0r0b

Strictly for gaming, should I get the HD700, GSP 600 (don't really want to go closed, but I hear good things) or wait for the GSP 500? HD 599's if too much diminishing return from the 700's? Currently using Philips Fidelio X1's that are 4 years old and just want to get ahead of them potentially dying on me and save them for a spare. I also want to get more positional audio if anyone has a recommendation for better than X1's or from my list above. TY!


----------



## raband

I generally use the HD700's for gaming when I'm not using a mic.

Light, comfy, great sound stage for gaming.


----------



## b0r0b (Apr 4, 2018)

raband said:


> I generally use the HD700's for gaming when I'm not using a mic.
> 
> Light, comfy, great sound stage for gaming.



Thank you! I find a lot of stuff about the 800's being incredible but I'm not really feeling $1,000+ for headphones. I feel it's too far. $500 is more my speed. I am trying to find the "gold standard" at $500 but it seems very broad with a ton of opinion. Nothing super concrete. Hell, a lot of people keep saying to just get Hyper X Cloud II's (TakStar Pro 80's) and I'm like...there's no way those are better than 598's, 599's, 700's or the new "gaming" offerings.

Edit: I also just watched a review on the 660S (Z review) and now I’m even more torn. This sucks. I wish I just had a hardline budget and had to settle for the obvious. There is no obvious for me here, lol.


----------



## TeeReQs

Clouds are a pretty damn good closed back pair of cans for the money.


----------



## pietcux

The GSP 600 are great cans with a good mic. The cable is interchangeable, they have both, the typical cable for PC and the one for consoles, laptops, DAPs and smartpones. They are easy to drive. Only some people seem to have comfort issues, I don't. The HD660S and HD700 are technical identical, but the HD660S is better balanced due to the HD650 housing. The HD700 has a larger soundstage though. The HD700 cable is stubborn as hell, the HD660S cable is perfect smooth in comparison. I prefer the sound of the HD660S.


----------



## Blinding (Apr 4, 2018)

What about the 2nd generation Beyerdynamic MMX300? Even tough they're closed, most of the reviews state that those are some of the best headset around (they're one of the most expensive as well) and have a nice mic as well.


----------



## DSebastiao

Does the mixamp pro support mixing from 3 different sources to one output? Can i have it connected to my ps4 listening to the audio coming from the ps4 in 7.1, and at the same time listen to songs on my phone through the aux in 3.5mm jack in stereo?


----------



## raband

Creative X7 is the one you're looking for to tick all those boxes.

Won't even need to AUX from the phone - will BT from it if you prefer.


----------



## rjjasick

DSebastiao said:


> Does the mixamp pro support mixing from 3 different sources to one output? Can i have it connected to my ps4 listening to the audio coming from the ps4 in 7.1, and at the same time listen to songs on my phone through the aux in 3.5mm jack in stereo?


I use the MixAmp 2013 and the new TR version listening to game audio from my XboxOne and using the Aux from my PC to listen to music or listening to streaming TV.  Works just fine.  I'd love have an X7, but this solution works.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Blinding said:


> What about the 2nd generation Beyerdynamic MMX300? Even tough they're closed, most of the reviews state that those are some of the best headset around (they're one of the most expensive as well) and have a nice mic as well.


It's great. Currently in the process of reviewing in. Warm sound, rumbly bass but not boomy, v-shaped signature with crisp treble. Midrange is a little spaced back. Great soundstage for closed can, amazing with surround dsps.

That's all I'll say.


----------



## b0r0b

I think I may try the HD 660S and see if they’re a fit replacement for my Fidelio X1’s.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's great. Currently in the process of reviewing in. Warm sound, rumbly bass but not boomy, v-shaped signature with crisp treble. Midrange is a little spaced back. Great soundstage for closed can, amazing with surround dsps.
> 
> That's all I'll say.



I agree, really great soundstage and accuracy in pinpointing cues. 

However I had to send it back because my model hat pretty sharp treble. I used to have a MMX300 2013 Model that had the smoothest treble of any Beyer I ever owned.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> I agree, really great soundstage and accuracy in pinpointing cues.
> 
> However I had to send it back because my model hat pretty sharp treble. I used to have a MMX300 2013 Model that had the smoothest treble of any Beyer I ever owned.


It definitely has hot treble. Though I expect that from Beyerdynamic headphones, and it's not as hot as the DT990 treble, so it works for me. But yes, if you want smooth treble, the Beyerdynamic  Custom Game has a better tonal balance, and bass can be personalized easily with the bass port options.

I actually think people are sleeping on the Custom One Pro/Custom Game. It's a really nice headphone/headset to have.


----------



## DSebastiao

raband said:


> Creative X7 is the one you're looking for to tick all those boxes.
> 
> Won't even need to AUX from the phone - will BT from it if you prefer.



Too much expensive, i really wish i could have it.



rjjasick said:


> I use the MixAmp 2013 and the new TR version listening to game audio from my XboxOne and using the Aux from my PC to listen to music or listening to streaming TV.  Works just fine.  I'd love have an X7, but this solution works.



You use them both? Also, is the TR really worth it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2018)

Another KSC75 bites the dust. I'm annoyed. I think I've spent more on KSC75s and Sportapros then alomnst any other headphone. I love these things for work, but man I'm so sick of them losing audio one side within a few months. The warranty sucks since the cost to fix is basically the cost of just buying new ones to begin with. I'm gonna have to start finding alternatives. Perhaps I'll just take my Sennheiser PMX 95 to work, though not as convenient. I'd wear my AKG cheapo IEMs that fit fine, but I need to be able to hear the outside world.


----------



## rjjasick

DSebastiao said:


> Too much expensive, i really wish i could have it.
> 
> 
> 
> You use them both? Also, is the TR really worth it?


I used to use the Pro, till my son dropped it and the chat stopped working.  Everything else works, but no chat.  So I no longer use it except when I'm playing single player games on my laptop, sometimes.  That being said, for the Xbox One, the TR goes away from having to have another cable attached (Xbox Live talk back cable) to the controller.  For that alone to me, it's worth it.


----------



## DSebastiao

rjjasick said:


> I used to use the Pro, till my son dropped it and the chat stopped working.  Everything else works, but no chat.  So I no longer use it except when I'm playing single player games on my laptop, sometimes.  That being said, for the Xbox One, the TR goes away from having to have another cable attached (Xbox Live talk back cable) to the controller.  For that alone to me, it's worth it.



So you use the optical cable connected to your xbox and the aux in to the pc, why not the usb to pc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2018)

Ok guys so I kinda figured out how to record audio and post it online, so I'll be updating the Game One's review with a mic test link, as well as updating the Custom Pro's, Boom Pro, clip on mic, and whatever else I can think of in the future.

A the moment, I have two recordings:

The Beyerdynamic MMX300 which is my upcoming review for headphone.guru, and the Sennheiser Game One.

Check this page for the mic tests, which should be the ones up top.

https://soundcloud.com/madlustenvy





Keep in mind that it may sound a little low because I didn't know how to properly boost volume to a normal level. But you get the gist. Also, I don't know how to turn off auto play for the soundcloud tracks I liked or whatever, so be wary of volume differences.

edit: Here is the Beyerdynamic Custom Game, which is the Custom One Pro but the package comes with the boom microphone that is like the V-Moda boom pro which can be attached to any headphone with a 3.5mm input.



And here we have the V Moda BoomPro. I'm quite surprised by its quality when put up next to the MMX300 and Senn Game One. VModa has a hell of a microphone here.



And finally my very ancient DealExtreme clip on microphone that at the time cost me just over $2.00. Surprising how well it works.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2018)

Wow, ok, so I decided to put the MMX300 velours on the Custom One Pro aka Custom Game, and man what a difference it makes. It immediately expanded the soundstage and airiness of the sound.

I mean, call me crazy, but it definitely sounds better, and I'm not just saying that because I prefer velours in comfort. it really does sound a hair brighter/airy/detailed. The congestion is gone.

The velours sucks out some warmth, but it can be offset by changing the bass port for more bass.

Switching back to the MMX300 and putting the velours back on, the MMX300 is definitely a superior headset, but man considering how muich cheaper the COP/Custom Game is, if one could find 770 velours for cheap, it'd be a very nice, cheaper alternative.


Changing the pads back to the faux leather, the COP/Game still sounds good, but definitely darker.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wow, ok, so I decided to put the MMX300 velours on the Custom One Pro aka Custom Game, and man what a difference it makes. It immediately expanded the soundstage and airiness of the sound.
> 
> I mean, call me crazy, but it definitely sounds better, and I'm not just saying that because I prefer velours in comfort. it really does sound a hair brighter/airy/detailed. The congestion is gone.
> 
> ...


I switched to SRH1540 pads on my cop years ago and never looked back. Stock pads on custom one pro are very uncomfortable for longer use.


----------



## b0r0b

So, I think I've decided on going Audio Technica, as much as that hurts because I have exclusively used Sennheiser for over a decade. I am curious if I should go 900x or 1000x, or just stay with the 700x's? Anyone have any real-world use for 700x vs XXXx for competitive gaming only?


----------



## make_moneys (Apr 11, 2018)

For those interested, heres Dmitri's review of the gsp 500. I will likely pick one up as soon as they come available on amazon. Currently Sennheiser takes pre-orders for those looking for one. Est. ship date May 31 i believe.


----------



## make_moneys

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm sorry for the late response to this, but thank you for your review of these. Very well written.  While I don't currently have any guest reviews on my guide, I would recommend you also pasting your reviews to each respective headphones on the forums for more exposure. It'd be a shame if you didn't.



Thanks. I didn't see any recent forums aside from this one discussing the headphones i reviewed but i will keep this  in mind. I didnt want to start a new thread but i can probably do that too.


----------



## Rederonik

Just bought and tested GSP600 for like 6h straight, they really good, but seems not for me, gonna return them. Too much clamping force and after like 1h of listening/gaming my ears starts to hurt inside. Might need to wait GSP500 and try them too.
Meanwhile ill try to find store where i can listen AKG K712PRO, and some others, need to find replacement for my DT770 Pro 32Ohm


----------



## Rozzko

Help please.
Does anyone can tell me what will be best for me? 
My headphones - Fidelio X2. 
What will be best for gaming on ps4 on this headphones? Tritton AX720(surround virtual)  or  Xduoo xd-05(standart DAC+AMP with optical in )? 
Now i have got Tritton 720 and dont understand i like it or not. I use max level of volume but i cant say that its loud. i want to undestand will Xduoo give me Higher quality and volume? maybe more powerfull AMP guvve me more quality? 
I can say that Tritton 720 much better in games, its different bit i understand that its not original sound, its virtual/plastic/not real. DOes any one who got Tritton 720 like it?  i dont try it on movies


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 13, 2018)

Did you try the X2 with the AX720 box like I mentioned to you on multiple occasions?

Did you set your system to DOLBY DIGITAL?

I'm starting to feel some people just do everything improperly and get upset when it doesn't sound right.

Make sure the AX720 audio is fully set to volume and lower the mic volume all the way. I'd you don't, the mic volume takes power away from the game audio so it won't be loud. It's like the Mixamp in that you can't have BOTH be loud. You can only balance between them or make one loud and one quiet. There is no way the AX720 isn't "loud enough" unless you're deaf or have things set up wrong.

It also takes time to adjust to virtual surround. If you tried it for a little and immediately judged it as fake, well that's not gonna help at all. Virtual surround is very different from standard stereo, and that technology is only becoming more popular for a reason. IT WORKS.

The AX720 is a decent headset. Not GREAT, but the main thing to use is the decoder box with your own headphones. THAT'S what you need to try.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Did you try the X2 with the AX720 box like I mentioned to you on multiple occasions?
> 
> Did you set your system to DOLBY DIGITAL?
> 
> ...



Yes, i plug in jack 3.5 of Fidelio x2 to one of wholes in AX 720 adapter, volume on max.
In ps4 settings i chose dolby digital and optical out

I hope i do it right, but want to understand if i make something wrong.
ok i will try to Low chat. And in settings whaen setting was on sound out = ALL SOUND , it was to low. When i swith to - only CHAT sound, all sound strts more loud!


----------



## paradiseXXX

I'm thinking about getting a new headphone for Competitive/FPS games.  

If you had to pick only one for playing competitive games which would you pick? 
the AKG K712 Pro?


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys i just got a Mixamp Pro, 2013 i think, and i don't know what to do with the usb connection, if i plug it into my pc, it does nothing, only powers the mixamp, also, the dials are kinda weird, if i lower the sound almost to the minimum, some spots make the sound go to only one earbud.

Thanks


----------



## Yethal

DSebastiao said:


> Guys i just got a Mixamp Pro, 2013 i think, and i don't know what to do with the usb connection, if i plug it into my pc, it does nothing, only powers the mixamp, also, the dials are kinda weird, if i lower the sound almost to the minimum, some spots make the sound go to only one earbud.
> 
> Thanks


If it only does power over USB then it's the 2009 Mixamp. Which on one hand is a pain because getting the chat to work on this thing requires much more effort than it should, on the other hand the 2009 is the least noisy one so it's easier to doubleamp


----------



## DSebastiao

Yethal said:


> If it only does power over USB then it's the 2009 Mixamp. Which on one hand is a pain because getting the chat to work on this thing requires much more effort than it should, on the other hand the 2009 is the least noisy one so it's easier to doubleamp



Nah, i just found out how to do it, it does deliver audio through the usb, but i do get a lot of electrical noise, is this normal? If i turn the game/voice knob all the way to game, i get a lot, i tried connecting the usb cable to other source but i still get the same, all of this with the volume knob at half.


----------



## paradiseXXX

I'm getting the AKG 712 pro for competitive gaming soon and still confused on either getting the NFB 11.28 or the Schiit stack (Magni3/Modi 2)...  any advice?


----------



## Rozzko

does AC3 its a dolby digital? 
in torrent trackers i see all movies with AC3 sound, and i trying to find what it is, and notice that someone write that Dolby Digital its a AC3. But what the difference? why they dont write in movies on torrent that sound is dolby digital?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> does AC3 its a dolby digital?
> in torrent trackers i see all movies with AC3 sound, and i trying to find what it is, and notice that someone write that Dolby Digital its a AC3. But what the difference? why they dont write in movies on torrent that sound is dolby digital?


AC3 is pro standard dolby digital is consumer


----------



## Rozzko

Yethal said:


> AC3 is pro standard dolby digital is consumer


but finally its the same? 
if i read AC3 its mean its dolby digital?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> but finally its the same?
> if i read AC3 its mean its dolby digital?


Basically yeah


----------



## Rozzko

why nobody talks about SONY PLATINUM headset? its have 7,1 virtual sound , its good? or crap?


----------



## Rozzko

Yethal said:


> Basically yeah


what are you using for soun on ps4? pr you dont ue ps4?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> what are you using for soun on ps4? pr you dont ue ps4?


X7 with swapped opamps


----------



## Rozzko

Yethal said:


> X7 with swapped opamps


And how good virtual surround sound on it?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> And how good virtual surround sound on it?


I love it deeply


----------



## Rozzko

Yethal said:


> I love it deeply


I read that its working not perfect. Did you try it on Ps4?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What you read was my post from VERY LONG AGO, when it wasn't fully functional. The X7 works wonders nowadays.


----------



## DekoniAudio (Apr 19, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wow, ok, so I decided to put the MMX300 velours on the Custom One Pro aka Custom Game, and man what a difference it makes. It immediately expanded the soundstage and airiness of the sound.
> 
> I mean, call me crazy, but it definitely sounds better, and I'm not just saying that because I prefer velours in comfort. it really does sound a hair brighter/airy/detailed. The congestion is gone.
> 
> ...



Hmm, if only someone made upgrade velour pads for headphones, if only, if only...

https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dekoni-audio-elite-velour-earpad-set-beyerdynamic-dt-770-880-990/

If you’ve ever wanted velour pads for a DT770, COP, or MMX300, our pads have a few features that are an upgrade over the famous standard Beyerdynamic pads. These have a flat face-facing surface to maintain the bass transmission to your ear, slow-rebound memory foam which traps heat less than pleather pads but maintain better isolation than stock velour pads, and the velour surface itself features a tighter weave and fantastic softness.

We also make upgrade pads for AKG, Focal, Sennheiser, and many other brands... we even have velour pads for the Beats Studio.

Mad, despite your name, we don’t think you’re crazy. Pads are one of the easiest and biggest impact mods you can make on a headphone, and we’re working on publishing measurement results from putting our pads on different headphones.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, what are the option for 50 to 70/80?


----------



## Yethal

Rozzko said:


> I read that its working not perfect. Did you try it on Ps4?


I did,it requires bt-w2 tranitter for chat audio but if you have both then I TT's a dre device


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Apr 20, 2018)

Has anyone been able to test or spend some time with the Sennheiser GSP 500 here??  Thought I'd try the Steelseries Pro + GameDAC on my PS4 Pro yesterday but was massively underwhelmed and sent it straight back.  Gone back to my Fidelio X2, VModa Boom Pro and SMSL 793 DAC/Amp. 

Want to keep the Fidelio just for music and in honest don't find them perhaps as comfy as most plus the GSP500 add a more convenient volume control and my preferred flip to mute.  Just concerned audio-wise they may be a backwards step to the Fidelios?


----------



## ironmonkey27

Hello all.
Still dipping my toes in this area and looking for some advice. 
I game solely on PS4. Current set up is switching between a mixamp pro tr (with a fiio or topping amp)for games and an smsl m3 for music, mainly to DT990 premiums or occasionally mdr1a for a bit more fun. 
I’ll be honest I find the mixamp underwhelming. I tend to use the m3 for gaming more and more as I prefer the sound. However, I do appreciate surround to my cans and mix that feature after a while. 
Been looking long and hard at the creative x7 as an all in one solution. 
So I guess what I’m asking is...
Is the x7 better than my above setup?
Musically and for gaming? 
Any advantage to getting the x7 limited edition? 


Thanks in advance for any advice.


----------



## VlLLA (Apr 20, 2018)

Hi
Guys AD700X WITH COMBO AMPMIX PRO TR FOR PS4 IS THE BEST?
FULL POWER HEADSET?
DO I WORK PCM OR DOLBY?


----------



## b0r0b

I have the Philips Fidelio X1’s and the GSX 1000. I used to use the Astro Mixamp Pro TR, and there is absolutely no comparison. 

I have GSP 600’s coming next week and 500’s when they become available on Amazon. I am looking for a worthy replacement for the aging X1’s. They’re fine, I just want to be ready.


----------



## Azurik (Apr 20, 2018)

Got the GSP500 now for a few days (overclockers uk have stock if interested).

Not the most comfortable headset I ever had I must say.

Currently I’m not using it with anything else than the controllers.

Dualshock4 is not powerful enough. Headset needs to be on full volume to get “loud”. The Xbox controller is better and headset volume is down to about 80% to achieve same as DualShock4 on full volume. It’s strange as the cloud alpha is a 62 ohm headset but gets louder on the DS4 than the 28ohm rated GSP500 (both controllers are set to max volume in options). 

You shouldn’t use a headset like this with a crappy source like the controllers anyway but Sound itself is quite good considering the weak source I use it with.

Dolby Atmos for headphones from the Xbox one controller is actually really good with this headset.

When using it with better gear (tested it briefly with chord mojo which I use on consoles sometimes) the headphones are easily on 598, 599 level.

Great clean bass, crisp but not fatiguing highs and overall clear presentation with good soundstage.

This is also the downside. £200 headset which sounds as good as a £100 (£120 maybe with added mic). You do the maths.

It’s just the comfort that is really bad at the moment. Yes, you can adjust the clamp with the sliders but the padding on the valour pads and band are not very thick and they just sit very strange on my avarage head very there is constant pressure under the ears where the jaw starts. It might get better with time.

Currently I find the cloud alphas better.


----------



## Got the Shakes

WhiteHartMart said:


> Has anyone been able to test or spend some time with the Sennheiser GSP 500 here??  Thought I'd try the Steelseries Pro + GameDAC on my PS4 Pro yesterday but was massively underwhelmed and sent it straight back.  Gone back to my Fidelio X2, VModa Boom Pro and SMSL 793 DAC/Amp.
> 
> Want to keep the Fidelio just for music and in honest don't find them perhaps as comfy as most plus the GSP500 add a more convenient volume control and my preferred flip to mute.  Just concerned audio-wise they may be a backwards step to the Fidelios?



I bought the Steelseries Pro + GameDAC on launch day and returned it immediately too. The surround wasn’t convincing at all and the volume was way too quiet. Went with a MixAmp and A40, it’s much better in my opinion I use it with my HD800 unless I need chat then I just use the Astro headset.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Apr 20, 2018)

well, I had the same problem with the GSP 600. Not surprised the 500 seems to have the same or similar problems since it uses the same headband mechanic. Sennheiser seemingly tried hard but turns out these are the first and only Sennheisers that gave me discomfort. :| 

anyway, *people, try HESUVI*. Give it a shot. Buy any 7.1 card with either good analog outs (Xonar STX etc.) or any 7.1 device with optical/coax out (also Xonars like the U3). "Unified Xonar" driven PCIe cards should be a no brainer in general.

Change between SBX, DHT/DHP and other solutions with a single click. Modify LS arrangement, EQ, boost etc..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 20, 2018)

DekoniAudio said:


> Hmm, if only someone made upgrade velour pads for headphones, if only, if only...
> 
> https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dekoni-audio-elite-velour-earpad-set-beyerdynamic-dt-770-880-990/
> 
> ...



I heard of your stuff, but haven't had a chance to try any. Perhaps you'd like to send some pads out for testing/impressions for this guide? I atm have at home the MMX300, COP, HE-400 Rev. 2 (pads are to be placed on plastic rings of hell which then mount to the HE400), Audio Technica M50 Limited Edition, Creative Aurvana Live. The Sennheiser Game One as well, though the pad repaclement on those aren't just wrap around. The rest of the stuff at home are on ears, and not typical to use with other pads. Send me a pm, we'll talk? 

I'm one of those guys that would love to always have a pad alternative for headphones that come with pleather/leather. I nmuch prefer to have velour/cloth at the very least where it rests on my skin. I had bought some Focus pads for the HE400 which kinda ruined the bass on the HE400, and some Audeze leather free pads on the HE400 that recessed the mids too much. I found the Shure 1540 Alcantara pads to work well enough.



Fegefeuer said:


> well, I had the same problem with the GSP 600. Not surprised the 500 seems to have the same or similar problems since it uses the same headband mechanic. Sennheiser seemingly tried hard but turns out these are the first and only Sennheisers that gave me discomfort. :|
> 
> anyway, *people, try HESUVI*. Give it a shot. Buy any 7.1 card with either good analog outs (Xonar STX etc.) or any 7.1 device with optical/coax out (also Xonars like the U3). "Unified Xonar" driven PCIe cards should be a no brainer in general.
> 
> Change between SBX, DHT/DHP and other solutions with a single click. Modify LS arrangement, EQ, boost etc..



Like Fege says, you all really do need to try this. It has stuff like Dolby Atmos, Sennheiser's GSX, Creative's SBX, and some other cool dsps that work like the real deal. I'm happy with just SBX on my X7, but if I wasn't I'd definitely try out Hesuvi for the other surround dsps.


----------



## korn0413

@Mad Lust Envy What are your opinions on the Sennheiser PC37X, I just picked these up bc I was a huge fan of my old PC 360 that died many years ago, but after a short run with them the soundstage doesn't seem as good? Maybe its just expectations, maybe I need more time with them, have you had any experience with them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

korn0413 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy What are your opinions on the Sennheiser PC37X, I just picked these up bc I was a huge fan of my old PC 360 that died many years ago, but after a short run with them the soundstage doesn't seem as good? Maybe its just expectations, maybe I need more time with them, have you had any experience with them?




Read my Game One review. It's the same headphone with different accessories.

Best in mind that when I say it has more sub bass presence, I literally meant more rumble in the mix than I expected, but not that it has a lot of it. I need to change my review to reflect this, since I make it sound like it's more than it is.


----------



## iAudio365

Does anyone know if there's a way to connect the Hugo 2 to a playstaion 4 using the bluetooth? I tried but it says the device won't work on the ps4 when I try to connect it even though it shows up.

Does anyone know or can point me in the right direction of someone who has maybe done this?


----------



## Azurik (Apr 21, 2018)

iAudio365 said:


> Does anyone know if there's a way to connect the Hugo 2 to a playstaion 4 using the bluetooth? I tried but it says the device won't work on the ps4 when I try to connect it even though it shows up.
> 
> Does anyone know or can point me in the right direction of someone who has maybe done this?



It won’t work. Your options are via optical cable or Bluetooth connection to your TV if supported. The PS4 does not allow any devices via blutooth except the controllers.

You could try a USB Bluetooth dongle (bt-w2) as last resort.


----------



## iAudio365

Azurik said:


> It won’t work. Your options are via optical cable or Bluetooth connection to your TV if supported. The PS4 does not allow any devices via blutooth except the controllers.
> 
> You could try a USB Bluetooth dongle (bt-w2) as last resort.



Does hugo 2 allow two devices to be plugged in at the same time? For example usb to my pc and optical to my ps4? 

Or for example having my pc off but still plugged in via the usb whilst i use my ps4 via the optical connection? Or can just have both turned on at the same time? I figure hugo2 only gonna play from whatever source the sound is coming from anyway. 

Do you know? And thanks for your reply


----------



## Yethal

iAudio365 said:


> Does anyone know if there's a way to connect the Hugo 2 to a playstaion 4 using the bluetooth? I tried but it says the device won't work on the ps4 when I try to connect it even though it shows up.
> 
> Does anyone know or can point me in the right direction of someone who has maybe done this?


You need Creative BT-W2 bluetooth transmitter (or any other bluetooth transmitter that advertises itself as an audio device to the OS)


----------



## Azurik

iAudio365 said:


> Does hugo 2 allow two devices to be plugged in at the same time? For example usb to my pc and optical to my ps4?
> 
> Or for example having my pc off but still plugged in via the usb whilst i use my ps4 via the optical connection? Or can just have both turned on at the same time? I figure hugo2 only gonna play from whatever source the sound is coming from anyway.
> 
> Do you know? And thanks for your reply



You can have as many devices connected to the Hugo as you want (usb, optical, Bluetooth) and use the remote to switch between sources.


----------



## iAudio365

Azurik said:


> You can have as many devices connected to the Hugo as you want (usb, optical, Bluetooth) and use the remote to switch between sources.



Perfect thank you


----------



## lenroot77

Mmmmmm..... God of war 4 with headphone  setting+hd800.... sounds Fab!


----------



## iAudio365

lenroot77 said:


> Mmmmmm..... God of war 4 with headphone  setting+hd800.... sounds Fab!



Hahaha, exactly this but with my focal utopia instead haha. 

Just gonna run an optical lead to the ps4 and leave it plugged in via usb to my pc so I don’t need to mess around with changing out cables all the time. I didn’t realise I could plug and use more than one device into hugo 2 at the same time until someone told me just before.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lenroot77 said:


> Mmmmmm..... God of war 4 with headphone  setting+hd800.... sounds Fab!


The headphone settting is just glorified stereo. :/

GoW4 with The Sennheiser Game One + SBX = <3


----------



## Fegefeuer

Playing it with 5.1.2: PCM + Dolby upmixer for the height speakers. Simply incredible


----------



## lenroot77 (Apr 21, 2018)

Well it sounds pretty darnn good for glorified stereo... at times I wish I’d kept the X7 for the SBX... maybe again in the future.

To whomever was posting above about the opamps in the X7, I found the Burson V5i op amps were a very noticeable upgrade. There was better separation, high frequencies were more clear and the bass seemed a bit more controlled.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The headphone settting is just glorified stereo. :/
> 
> GoW4 with The Sennheiser Game One + SBX = <3



Dissapointing if true, haven't tested it because I naturally just connect the Philips Dolby Headphone Device to the PS4 at night. 
Wondering why Sony is sleeping on these. Horizon and Uncharted have 3D Audio support, albeit only for their headets. Ironically you can activate (only tested HZD) the 3D Audio if you have the PSVR enabled and connect your headset to the corresponding output.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 22, 2018)

I still need to hear a demo of a DSP with height cues. No virtual surround does height as far as the ones I've tested. The only time I heard height cues is from pre-recorded binaural audio.

The first one to do it for video games,  will blow my mind.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I still need to hear a demo of a DSP with height cues. No virtual surround does height as far as the ones I've tested. The only time I heard height cues is from pre-recorded binaural audio.
> 
> The first one to do it for video games,  will blow my mind.


Realizer supposedly does.


----------



## GenEricOne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I still need to hear a demo of a DSP with height cues. No virtual surround does height as far as the ones I've tested. The only time I heard height cues is from pre-recorded binaural audio.
> 
> The first one to do it for video games,  will blow my mind.


Dolby Atmos and Dolby Atmos for Headphones on Xbox One both work with height cues. 

I've verified they're working with Atmos demos/tests in the Edge browser on XB1 but I've never heard anything in a game, including Assassin's Creed Origins, which supports Atmos.


----------



## lenroot77

Dolby Atmos Headphone is a no brainer on Xbone... 15 dollars and you can output it via optical. Easy Peazy! I’m sure Sony could do it if they weren’t so caught up with their own headsets.


----------



## GenEricOne

lenroot77 said:


> Dolby Atmos Headphone is a no brainer on Xbone... 15 dollars and you can output it via optical. Easy Peazy! I’m sure Sony could do it if they weren’t so caught up with their own headsets.


If Sony did it, it would solve my conundrum on how to get VSS out from both PS4 and XB1 into a single DAC/AMP/HP chain with no switches or anything. Right now I’ve taken a theoretical downgrade on my PS4 Pro (which I only play exclusives on) just to have the rest of my system ‘just right’. 

I’m using Atmos for Headphones on X1X and stereo on PS4 Pro through HDMI into my TV (then optical to Mimby->Magni3->HD700) since it’s better overall than 5.1 from both into a Mixamp that doesn’t handle the HD700 very well and has worse VSS than the $15 Dolby Atmos for Headphones plug-in. 

One can dream.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm hoping Sony will get the drift for the PS5 and offer something similar. I'd like to be able to use a regular headphone amp/dac, or even have a virtual surround when plugged straight into a controller. It's about that time.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I still need to hear a demo of a DSP with height cues. No virtual surround does height as far as the ones I've tested. The only time I heard height cues is from pre-recorded binaural audio.
> 
> The first one to do it for video games,  will blow my mind.


The PSVR does height cues. Did you play Resident Evil VII? There's a scene where you fight a big insect-like, gooey, too-many eyes monster that you only find in RE games, and the monster fights you in a two story shed with water flooding the first floor. Holes get punched through the boundary of the first and second floor, the monster can swim under the water, and you have to go on the different floors so you can shoot weak points from different angles. It's an awesome fight, even more awesome when you hear it pound, rasp, or splash from a particular direction.
O_O

Even though you have floaty-arms that don't connect to a body, that is a MUST PLAY game, even without motion sticks. Even on my launch PS4, the audio and graphics do a fanTASTIC job of setting atmosphere and mood, smooth playability. Speaking of atmosphere... it's not IMO heart-stompingly scary, for anyone who is afraid of being afraid. There's only two or three jump-scares, and the scariest moment of the whole game for me was right near the beginning: the loud click as I opened the first door in the dark! I had myself psyched out, trying to be really stealthy so nothing would find me, and the sudden noise startled me into thinking I'd just given myself away. Truly, you are your own worst enemy when it comes to fear. If you play with the controller, the gun aims right at the center of where your eye is looking, making for some badass reaction and headshot moments! PC mouse and keyboard got NOTHING on shooting things from your eyes!




Fegefeuer said:


> Dissapointing if true, haven't tested it because I naturally just connect the Philips Dolby Headphone Device to the PS4 at night.
> Wondering why Sony is sleeping on these. Horizon and Uncharted have 3D Audio support, albeit only for their headets. Ironically you can activate (only tested HZD) the 3D Audio if you have the PSVR enabled and connect your headset to the corresponding output.


Do you have to turn on the PSVR and switch to VR mode to do this? If I understand you, what you're doing is turning on the HMD but watching the TV output... what do you do for best picture quality in this situation?

I wonder if your trick works with The Last of Us Remastered.

Oh... man... I just imagined hooking up the inline headphone jack to the back of my HDV 820, balanced out to my HD 800. Squee! I gotta try that!


----------



## AxelCloris

Resident Evil VII is already creepy enough without adding VR to it. 

I'm waiting for a good deal on the Skyrim PSVR bundle. At the moment, that's the foremost PSVR game I want to try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't have PSVR and I don't do horror games lol. I'm a child when it comes to video games scaring the heck outta me.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Apr 25, 2018)

Have picked up a paid of AKG K712Pro in the last day or so which have taken over as my gaming set from the Fidelio X2s I have.  Also have a VModa Boompro with a mini XLR adaptor to turn the AKGs into a quality 'headset'.

Seriously tempted to pick up a Creative X7 and BT-W2 today now for my PS4 Pro occasional use also on my One X. Real question I guess is is the X7 a decent match with the AKGs and is it a worthwhile upgrade to the SMSL 793 DAC/Amp I currently use.  I appreciate the addition of the surround processing and a lot of additional functionality but hoping on a general audio quality improvement also to justify the outlay??

Any thoughts?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Apr 25, 2018)

I agree on RE7's audio, it's very well made and I don't know if Monster Hunter is using the same tech but hopefully Capcom adds this as a default option from here on. 

Unfortunately i am unable to play RE7 on VR as it really scares me and I have to cheapen the immersion by talking crap or singing. We even played with friends and once they got into the VR immersion they were detached from us. Quite amazing. 



Evshrug said:


> Do you have to turn on the PSVR and switch to VR mode to do this? If I understand you, what you're doing is turning on the HMD but watching the TV output... what do you do for best picture quality in this situation?
> 
> I wonder if your trick works with The Last of Us Remastered.
> 
> Oh... man... I just imagined hooking up the inline headphone jack to the back of my HDV 820, balanced out to my HD 800. Squee! I gotta try that!



No, since HZD only supports cinema mode (more like the PSVR defaults to cinema mode because HZD is not a VR game) you don't need to look into the googles, just leave it on, continue playing on the TV as usual.
Sony really dropped the ball with the external box. Should have added headphone input for the case people simply want to use it for their headphones and enjoy Sony's speaker room or 3D Audio on their supported titles.


----------



## AxelCloris

We have RE7 on one PC here at the office, and I'll be completely honest that I don't like playing with the lights off. Joe, on the other hand, loves horror and has played in the dark for hours. I will say that I'm a bit annoyed that RE7 VR isn't out out for PC yet. The one year PS4 exclusive has already ended, and I wish we could download it so Joe, as the only fear-lover here, could try it.

I think I'll stick to Skyrim and Overwatch at the office.


----------



## SnakeEyes13NIN (Apr 25, 2018)

Am interested in a really good setup for my Xbox One X, and I have had all sort of turtle beaches, astros and etc. And am not pleased at all with how they sound. I want really great quality sound and want to feel like am in the game, on the high end spectrum that are not too expensive but also not too cheap, and how to set it up, so it can work with a modmic. I have read the list that was posted, but am also looking for any suggestions from people that know more than I do, and then I can take those suggestions and see which one I fancy best. Thank you for this thread, and all the information provided by other. Am new to this forum, and hoping to see what headsets and setup is best. Thank you.


----------



## rjjasick

My personal opinion is Xbox is kinda tough. I think most would say the Soundblaster X7 is the best surround capable amp/Dac. I use a MixAmp TR (I don’t have that metallic sound some complain of) which gets rid of the extra cable needed for chat like the MixAmp Pro 2013. Competitively I will use ATH AD-700X with a mod mic. For most of the time I have Phillips Fidelio X1 with VModa boom pro. I also dabble with Monoprices’s M1060 when I’m feeling a planar. The mixamp will drive harder phone like the HD650/6xx but those aren’t great for gaming and I’ve actually double amped with a small portable amp just because people tell me I have to amp that.


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## SnakeEyes13NIN (Apr 25, 2018)

rjjasick said:


> My personal opinion is Xbox is kinda tough. I think most would say the Soundblaster X7 is the best surround capable amp/Dac. I use a MixAmp TR (I don’t have that metallic sound some complain of) which gets rid of the extra cable needed for chat like the MixAmp Pro 2013. Competitively I will use ATH AD-700X with a mod mic. For most of the time I have Phillips Fidelio X1 with VModa boom pro. I also dabble with Monoprices’s M1060 when I’m feeling a planar. The mixamp will drive harder phone like the HD650/6xx but those aren’t great for gaming and I’ve actually double amped with a small portable amp just because people tell me I have to amp that.




And which one of all the headsets you use, you like best? I was very interested in either Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser headsets, although I am still researching and asking which headset is best to get for the Xbox One X, and I concur with you, the Xbox is kinda of tough. Am just not pleased with any Turtle Beaches, or any Astros, I have had some Sony headsets and was not pleased with the sound. And am glad I joined this forum because now I can ask several people about their experiences and setups with headsets and amp and mic's. I also want to get this setup for myself and for my younger brother as a gift. And the Soundblaster X7 is great, thanks for letting me know.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser sent me the GSX 1000 headphone dac/amp. Very excited to test GSX surround to its fullest on my PC. I only heard GSX through the HeSuVi plug in, which didn't have all the nuances of the real thing, like reverb adjustments, and front/back emphasizing.

That and I'll just be happy to lay in bed with the GSX1000 next to me for my Koss clip ons overnight on my days off.


----------



## AxelCloris

I quite like the GSX line. Excited to hear your thoughts on it when the review is up.


----------



## SnakeEyes13NIN

I would love to get me a Grado headset PS2000E or PS1000E (and getting a Grado amp) but it would be a waste to get these headsets since they will need an amp and etc, but at the moment that is way too over my budget, LoL. Am very interested in the beyerdynamic dt 990 premium 32 ohm but I do not know which ohm to get for the Xbox One X? And which amp to get to work with these headsets on my Xbox One X? The Soundblaster X7 is great but will wait and compare it to the Grado Reference RA1 Headphone AMP MODEL A/C, when I decide to get a Grado headset. I will continue reading the list that Mad Lust Envy posted, at the moment am leaning towards the beyerdynamic dt 990 premium from what I am reading in that list.


----------



## Evshrug

SnakeEyes13NIN said:


> I would love to get me a Grado headset PS2000E or PS1000E (and getting a Grado amp) but it would be a waste to get these headsets since they will need an amp and etc, but at the moment that is way too over my budget, LoL. Am very interested in the beyerdynamic dt 990 premium 32 ohm but I do not know which ohm to get for the Xbox One X? And which amp to get to work with these headsets on my Xbox One X? The Soundblaster X7 is great but will wait and compare it to the Grado Reference RA1 Headphone AMP MODEL A/C, when I decide to get a Grado headset. I will continue reading the list that Mad Lust Envy posted, at the moment am leaning towards the beyerdynamic dt 990 premium from what I am reading in that list.


I can't comment too much on other options, but I will say that the Sennheiser x Massdrop PC37X is only a 50 Ω headset with good sensitivity, so doesn't need much in the amping department. It does reward good-resolving DACs though, and you wouldn't need a modmic because it's a headset with a really good microphone built-in. Sennheiser also has three models in the GSP line, I haven't personally tried them, but they're even lower impedance at 28 Ω.


----------



## SnakeEyes13NIN

Evshrug said:


> I can't comment too much on other options, but I will say that the Sennheiser x Massdrop PC37X is only a 50 Ω headset with good sensitivity, so doesn't need much in the amping department. It does reward good-resolving DACs though, and you wouldn't need a modmic because it's a headset with a really good microphone built-in. Sennheiser also has three models in the GSP line, I haven't personally tried them, but they're even lower impedance at 28 Ω.



Thank you, I will check out the ones you have suggested.


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## PowerUser (Apr 27, 2018)

Hi, would the Sennheiser 598 be a good choice for gaming on Xbox.
Can a xbox controller drive them, or do I need an amp.


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## Turpow

PowerUser said:


> Hi, would the Sennheiser 598 be a good choice for gaming on Xbox.
> Can a xbox controller drive them, or do I need an amp.


 The 598 is fantastic and is sooooo easy to drive.


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## AppleheadMay

There are 4 different 598's if I'm not mistaken: the SR, the CS, the SE and the beige/brown one which is the previous version of the 599.


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## PowerUser

AppleheadMay said:


> There are 4 different 598's if I'm not mistaken: the SR, the CS, the SE and the beige/brown one which is the previous version of the 599.


Yeah, sorry I meant the Sennheiser hd 598 Sr.


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## AppleheadMay

PowerUser said:


> Yeah, sorry I meant the Sennheiser hd 598 Sr.



They’re all great phones for gaming, the only I haven’t owned or heard is the SR.
If you want to listen a lot to music with them as well I find the 599 and beige 598 have a bit higher SQ.
I bought many of my Senns through Amazon with nice discounts although I must say the discounts seem to be much higher here on Amazon Germany and they fluctuate a lot over time.
If I was in the Market for a 598 I’d consider the 58X on MD as well for that price.


----------



## PowerUser

AppleheadMay said:


> They’re all great phones for gaming, the only I haven’t owned or heard is the SR.
> If you want to listen a lot to music with them as well I find the 599 and beige 598 have a bit higher SQ.
> I bought many of my Senns through Amazon with nice discounts although I must say the discounts seem to be much higher here on Amazon Germany and they fluctuate a lot over time.
> If I was in the Market for a 598 I’d consider the 58X on MD as well for that price.


Hi, thanks for your answer, I already purchased the Sennheiser hd 598 SR, I only want to know if they sound loud and clear enough if I plug them in the xbox controller, or do I need to buy an amp.


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## AppleheadMay

Nope, no need for an amp for gaming with the xbox.


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## PowerUser

AppleheadMay said:


> Nope, no need for an amp for gaming with the xbox.


Ok, thanks for your help.


----------



## Aeonfire

I've currently got a pair of AKG K702 65th Annies that have been my main drivers for years. I've abused them a little too much and they are pretty much falling apart. If I cock my head to the side or move a bit, it can lose sound in one of the drivers. I know... I'm a terrible person.

Either way, I'm looking for something that is a little more fun. More punch to the bass. More immersive sounding. I'm playing a lot of Elite Dangerous right now and I feel like with some more bass and looseness in the sound, I'd be sucked in a lot more. Positional audio isn't super important as I'm not really into competitive FPS's like I was when I got my first pair of Q701s, then upgrading to the K702 Annies. 

From this guide, it looks like the Fidelio X2s or DT990 Pros may be right up my alley, possibly. Trying to stay under $500 (and ideally under $300-ish). Driving with a Schitt stack (Modi/Magni2s). 

Any suggestions or thoughts?


----------



## dakanao

Aeonfire said:


> I've currently got a pair of AKG K702 65th Annies that have been my main drivers for years. I've abused them a little too much and they are pretty much falling apart. If I cock my head to the side or move a bit, it can lose sound in one of the drivers. I know... I'm a terrible person.
> 
> Either way, I'm looking for something that is a little more fun. More punch to the bass. More immersive sounding. I'm playing a lot of Elite Dangerous right now and I feel like with some more bass and looseness in the sound, I'd be sucked in a lot more. Positional audio isn't super important as I'm not really into competitive FPS's like I was when I got my first pair of Q701s, then upgrading to the K702 Annies.
> 
> ...


Maybe Sennheiser HD 650? It has punchy bass and very realistic timbre and upfront, immersive presentation for all sounds


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## b0r0b

In my home right now: 

Philips Fidelio X1's (Selling)
Audio-Technica ATH-AD1000X's
Sennheiser GSP 600's (Returning)
Schiit Stack (Returning)
Sennheiser GSX1000

I am a top 50 NA PUBG player (12th Season 4) and with all of this in my house, the GSX1000 with the Audio-Technica's is the hands-down BEST setup for gaming I have ever had. What a time to be alive. The Fidelio's are incredible, I just wanted to see if there was something a LITTLE better for FPS games and I found it. I have new pads on order for the Audio-Technica's because the stock ones are downright awful when compared to the Fidelio X1's. Can I deal with it? Sure, but not when you've had Fidelio pads on your head. I thought I would hate the "wings" on the Audio-Technica's...I love them. I love them because I don't feel them, just like I didn't feel anything on my head wearing the Fidelio's. When I get these pads in and on, I will have reached the top of the competitive gaming mountain. Couldn't be happier with my first ever Audio-Technica experience.

Minus all headphones, the GSX1000 is the best thing that's ever happened to PUBG specifically. It's incredible. That is all!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Aeonfire said:


> I've currently got a pair of AKG K702 65th Annies that have been my main drivers for years. I've abused them a little too much and they are pretty much falling apart. If I cock my head to the side or move a bit, it can lose sound in one of the drivers. I know... I'm a terrible person.
> 
> Either way, I'm looking for something that is a little more fun. More punch to the bass. More immersive sounding. I'm playing a lot of Elite Dangerous right now and I feel like with some more bass and looseness in the sound, I'd be sucked in a lot more. Positional audio isn't super important as I'm not really into competitive FPS's like I was when I got my first pair of Q701s, then upgrading to the K702 Annies.
> 
> ...


I had a similar experience when it came to headphones as well. I got tired of anazlyzing music and actually stopped listening to the headphones I had... I then realized that there were more signatures out there that were more engaging. I think a good one to try that would be more fun would be the HD600 or the HD650. They both should do very well with the amp/DAC your using since both headphones are on the warm side. 

You also should have no problem driving either one of them!

Also, if you went that route and saved up for a tube amp you should be in Audio bliss. Mind you, both of those cans described are warmer and have more forgiving highs. If you went with the DT990 you should be ready for some serious highs (not sure how sensitive your ears are). Also, when you get a can like a dt990 you will have a more engaging experience but it might be to the point of fatiguing... So it truly just depends on what you ultimately want out of them. 



b0r0b said:


> In my home right now:
> 
> Philips Fidelio X1's (Selling)
> Audio-Technica ATH-AD1000X's
> ...


I’m real stuck on PUBG right now! I love it. 

I’m jealous that you get to use the GSX1000... I play on the Xbone and it’s not compatible. I have heard GREAT things about it and always wanted to try it with PUBG. 

Enjoy your gaming and good job on your rank! Quite impressive...


----------



## pietcux

Aeonfire said:


> I've currently got a pair of AKG K702 65th Annies that have been my main drivers for years. I've abused them a little too much and they are pretty much falling apart. If I cock my head to the side or move a bit, it can lose sound in one of the drivers. I know... I'm a terrible person.
> 
> Either way, I'm looking for something that is a little more fun. More punch to the bass. More immersive sounding. I'm playing a lot of Elite Dangerous right now and I feel like with some more bass and looseness in the sound, I'd be sucked in a lot more. Positional audio isn't super important as I'm not really into competitive FPS's like I was when I got my first pair of Q701s, then upgrading to the K702 Annies.
> 
> ...


The K702 are quite robust headphones. Maybe you just needon't a new cable? It's easily replacable so are the pads. It's for sure worth a try.


----------



## HiCZoK

Koss Porta Pro and e10k here (also using it with ps4 just from controller).
Anything I should try? I've only ever used xonar's dg Dolby heaphone and it was good but destroyed the sound quality. Is Dolby Headphone still the best tech?


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 3, 2018)

HiCZoK said:


> Koss Porta Pro and e10k here (also using it with ps4 just from controller).
> Anything I should try? I've only ever used xonar's dg Dolby heaphone and it was good but destroyed the sound quality. Is Dolby Headphone still the best tech?


Creative's SBX is my fave, in terms of giving the surround and not destroying the fidelity. Sennheiser's GSX is better than Dolby Headphone in retaining quality, though not as much as SBX to me. It falls in between. In terms of surround cues, all three are top notch, though SBX falls behind just a hint compared to DH and GSX.


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## Colibri (May 3, 2018)

Hi,
I'm new to this website, I created a thread with my presentation and my questions here :
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introduction-and-need-advice-for-my-gaming-setup.878779/

but now that I've seen this thread I think it could be better to post here.

My Custom IEM are dying and I would like to make the jump to a good headphone setup to game. I need to start from the very beginning has I've got absolutely no devices (Amp, DAC, etc...).

For the Microphone I'm thinking about buying the Modmic V5 and a Rode VXLR+ adapter as I would like to be able to plug both my futur headphone and the mic on the same interface (tell me if it's a good idea or not, I'm new) as I would like to have as few cable and device as possible, I like clean desk.

I need advice about what will be the best device and headphone I could get for a maximum of 1500$ (Modmic and adapter cost 130$ so I still got some cash left).
I mainly play competitive FPS so sound stage and sound positioning are my main concern.
I've heard good things about the DT1990 Pro, HD 660S and the HD 800S (I know it's more expensive, but perhaps I can be week enough to break my wallet).
I listen to a lot of music kinds so I'm not really looking for a particular type of sound (bassy, neutral, etc...).

So I need advice for a good headphone and a good way to plug both my Modmic in XLR and the headphone in a compact way so I can keep my desk as clean as possible.
I gladly pay a beer to the people that can help me find my dream


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## Fegefeuer (May 3, 2018)

I don't like the combination of expensive headphones and strapping a Modmic onto it. Not familiar with all that stuff though as I just use a PC37X when playing with friends, which is actually the best headset I ever owned and actually a steal.

Don't people play with Yeti (Rohde etc..) Mic setups and never annoy people with it (especially streamers? I'd rather use such a setup than a Modmic and have my headphones free from any adapter or second cable etc.

As for headphones. Get a (used) HD800 (plenty of owners take care of their headphones very well, mostly you'd only need a new pair of earpads), put the SuperDupont inside and enjoy the best gaming headphone ever. Not sure how your interface responds to such a headphone though. You could save a few hundred bucks and spend it on a good amp.

A well driven HD 800 is unbeatable for gaming. Huge (and especially tall/grand) Soundstage, laserguided positioning D), clarity, details, magnificient bass until Audeze subbass levels (not a big loss).

EDIT: OH, I JUST REALIZED THE CURRENT MODMIC IS VERY DIFFERENT (OWNED A OLD ONE) AND EASY TO "ATTACH" WITH A CORRESPONDING ADAPTER BUT I STILL WOULDN'T DO IT.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> I don't like the combination of expensive headphones and strapping a Modmic onto it. Not familiar with all that stuff though as I just use a PC37X when playing with friends, which is actually the best headset I ever owned and actually a steal.
> 
> Don't people play with Yeti (Rohde etc..) Mic setups and never annoy people with it (especially streamers? I'd rather use such a setup than a Modmic and have my headphones free from any adapter or second cable etc.
> 
> ...


You must think Dimitri is a heathen


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't trust his headphone reviews at all. However I respect where he is now as a huge youtuber. Wish MLE was there somewhere.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> I don't trust his headphone reviews at all. However I respect where he is now as a huge youtuber. Wish MLE was there somewhere.


He's not an audio guy so his headphone reviews have very little value (plus, he powers HD800 using O2 amp)


----------



## Fegefeuer

I see. Very well then.


----------



## Colibri

Fegefeuer said:


> I don't like the combination of expensive headphones and strapping a Modmic onto it. Not familiar with all that stuff though as I just use a PC37X when playing with friends, which is actually the best headset I ever owned and actually a steal.
> 
> Don't people play with Yeti (Rohde etc..) Mic setups and never annoy people with it (especially streamers? I'd rather use such a setup than a Modmic and have my headphones free from any adapter or second cable etc.
> 
> ...



I'm a little bit afraid than a Yeti would record all the sound from my mechanical keyboard and I dont want to use a arm on my desk... Do you think it would be good if I put in on top of my screen ?
And with that you would buy something like a Schiit stack and an used HD 800 ?

Could be a solution, I agree.

You think a Modmic could damage an headphone because of the small magnet ?


----------



## pietcux

Colibri said:


> Hi,
> I'm new to this website, I created a thread with my presentation and my questions here :
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/introduction-and-need-advice-for-my-gaming-setup.878779/
> 
> ...


For online gaming with voice over, I also prefer a good Sennheiser Headset. I have the Game One (open) and the GSP 600 (closed). I such sessions I do not listen too much into details, more on what my friends say. For solo I also use the HD800SD and it is as great as @Fegefeuer mentioned.


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## Colibri (May 3, 2018)

Never heard of this SuperDupont mod, it sound interesting as I can find some used HD 800 for 700$ in my area.
So now what do you think would be the best compact solution to drive it properly as I don't want to have too many things on my desk ?
I think I better stay with the Modmic than a Yeti, heard too much problem with keyboard sound.


----------



## pietcux

Colibri said:


> Never heard of this SuperDupont mod, it sound interesting as I can find some used HD 800 for 700$ in my area.
> So now what do you think would be the best compact solution to drive it properly as I don't want to have too many things on my desk ?


Get a used Sennheiser HDVA 600 like I did. They drive the HD800 perfectly and then some more. Btw. I got both the HD800 and the HDVA 600 fro a HeadFier from Switzerland.


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## Colibri (May 3, 2018)

pietcux said:


> Get a used Sennheiser HDVA 600 like I did. They drive the HD800 perfectly and then some more. Btw. I got both the HD800 and the HDVA 600 fro a HeadFier from Switzerland.



Wouldn't it be better with an HDVA 800 so I can put the mic (right ?) and the headphone and directly connect it to my computer ? Problem is it's really expensive and I can't find an used one for a decent price...
I've heard that the Modmic as a lot of problem with Realtek soundcard so I would like to find a device that can be used as a soundcard for both the mic and headphone but I don't know if this kind of device exist as I'm a noob on the audio world.


----------



## pietcux

Colibri said:


> Wouldn't it be better with an HDVA 800 so I can put the mic (right ?) and the headphone and directly connect it to my computer ? Problem is it's really expensive and I can't find an used one for a decent price...
> I've heard that the Modmic as a lot of problem with Realtek soundcard so I would like to find a device that can be used as a soundcard for both the mic and headphone.


The HDVD 800 has no mic input.


----------



## Colibri

I've heard about the Audient ID4, anyone know if it would be enough for my need ?


----------



## AxelCloris

pietcux said:


> For online gaming with voice over, I also prefer a good Sennheiser Headset. I have the Game One (open) and the GSP 600 (closed). I such sessions I do not listen too much into details, more on what my friends say. For solo I also use the HD800SD and it is as great as @Fegefeuer mentioned.


Sennheiser's headsets usually have nice, clear microphones. I was playing with a friend last night (trying a new headset) and she said my voice sounded like she was "talking to tech support," which is not really what you want. She didn't make the same complaint when I was playing with the PC37X headset not long ago.

I'm probably one of the few weirdos who uses a pro mic with a PS4. Right now my console setup is Shure KSM8 < CEntrance MicPort Pro < PS4 > Creative X7 > Gilmore Lite MkII > Ether Flow. The people who use voice chat with me notice a difference in mic quality rather quickly when I change the setup. When they don't comment on the quality change, I generally assume it's close enough to be considered a good headset mic.


----------



## mbyrnes

lenroot77 said:


> Well it sounds pretty darnn good for glorified stereo... at times I wish I’d kept the X7 for the SBX... maybe again in the future.
> 
> To whomever was posting above about the opamps in the X7, I found the Burson V5i op amps were a very noticeable upgrade. There was better separation, high frequencies were more clear and the bass seemed a bit more controlled.



These are a decent upgrade, but the Sparkos really destroy them. Better in every way, and it's immediately noticeable. Some may prefer their sound, but the Sparkos to me are just transparent. X7 with the Sparkos, will compete easily with a DAC/amp combo of similar cost. Not a cheap upgrade, but it is worth it.



Yethal said:


> Realizer supposedly does.





SnakeEyes13NIN said:


> Am interested in a really good setup for my Xbox One X, and I have had all sort of turtle beaches, astros and etc. And am not pleased at all with how they sound. I want really great quality sound and want to feel like am in the game, on the high end spectrum that are not too expensive but also not too cheap, and how to set it up, so it can work with a modmic. I have read the list that was posted, but am also looking for any suggestions from people that know more than I do, and then I can take those suggestions and see which one I fancy best. Thank you for this thread, and all the information provided by other. Am new to this forum, and hoping to see what headsets and setup is best. Thank you.



The best? Smyth Research Realizer A16. It hasn't released yet, but very soon. There's a HUGE thread here. Current pricing is $2200 I believe. It does 3D audio by measuring the sound in your ears, and can mimic, pretty much any sound system in the world (you can record a room, and the A16 will work it's magic). There will be an exchange, where people can download different setups from other owners. It also does head tracking, and people who have demoed the A16 said the effect is unreal. That's the best, but it isn't cheap. I know me and a few others (Evshrug) here are waiting on ours. I'm sure a gaming A16 thread will pop up once it's in our hands. I'm buying it for gaming and movies, and apartment life doesn't suit my very loud listening habits. I'd be evicted with a surround setup (my old 5.1 system could hit 120db without distortion). When I sold my house, I sold my home theater gear. I miss it dearly and this will be even better! Way cheaper than buying a full Atmos setup (my stereo speakers were $3,000 almost 10 years ago). I can actually setup the A16 using my stereo speakers, to create an Atmos setup, as if I had an entire room full of them. I would never spend $20,000+ to build a system). Should be fun, but I'll be honest if I'm not happy. Because I bought early, I could sell and break even. I really doubt I'll need to.

I would say next is the Creative Sound Blaster X7, with Sparkos op amps. That's about $500 if you can grab the base model at $250 on sale (don't bother with the SE unless you plan on driving speakers regularly). Nice thing with the X7 is you can upgrade over time. Adding an external amp is easy, swapping op amps is easy. So you could add a OTL tube amp for high impedance headphones, and still use the SS amp in the X7 for everything else. Win, win! This is a good starting point, and really the only device I'd buy for console gaming. Astro Mixamp sucks, AX720 sucks, because they use low quality amps, that can't drive a good amount of headphones that many want to use here. Double amping introduces noise that is really hard to get past. Fine for a young person without much experience, but if you're serious, skip the entry level stuff and grab an X7. 

I have all kinds of headphones. Honestly I really like the Sennheiser PC-37X. For $120 you get a super efficient headset that holds it's own. Perfect when I need chat. Half the time I just plug into the controller, as these are really that easy to drive (I listen a lot louder than most, and this setup is fine for me). I honestly haven't gamed much online with chat. Lost most of my old gaming buddies to life (stupid wives, children, jobs, etc, lol). 

AKG K702 65ths (Massdrop K7XX is close) is a great headset for sound whoring. Just enough bass where it isn't overwhelming, clear highs, and a good soundstage. A good balance for competitive gaming. Not the most fun for single player. I used these for years and was really happy. Should pull them out for old times sake. 

I love my Hifiman HE-X V2s, they just destroy anything else I have when it comes to overall sound. HUGE soundstage, really good bass and mids, and crystal clear. Bought mine used locally for $875 about a year and a half ago. They may be cheaper (I did get a good deal).

My one regret is buying too many cheaper headphones and not just going for it early on. So many side grades, not enough improvement. Try to hit a local meet and listen to some headphones. That's where I found the Hifiman HE-X V2, and I was able to listen to just about every headphone you could think of. 



Evshrug said:


> I can't comment too much on other options, but I will say that the Sennheiser x Massdrop PC37X is only a 50 Ω headset with good sensitivity, so doesn't need much in the amping department. It does reward good-resolving DACs though, and you wouldn't need a modmic because it's a headset with a really good microphone built-in. Sennheiser also has three models in the GSP line, I haven't personally tried them, but they're even lower impedance at 28 Ω.



This may help others (I know you personally probably know this). Impedance is important, as it will tell you what your amp can put out into a particular headphone. The FAR more important number is sensitivity. Here are two examples:

25ohm, 110db/mW

100ohm, 90 db/mW

Which will play louder with the same amp? Every halving of impedance doubles wattage. Great right! Well in reality, doubling of power equals a 3db increase in volume (really not much, and one reason I don't understand why 99% of people think huge power is needed for easy load headphones) 

For the example above:

25 ohm, 110db

100ohm, 90db (halving resistance, 50ohm gains 3db). Halving again, 3db increase would total 96db versus the 110db of the 25 ohm load at the same power level. 

It can work both ways. A higher resistance headphone can be more efficient than a lower ohm headphone. It's confusing. Speakers are simple. Almost all speakers are designed at an 8 ohm load, some are 4 ohm (which makes receiver and amp choices much harder, lowering the resistance increases heat (more current). Headphones require a fraction of the power (power numbers are 1/1000th of the speaker world). I also think higher impedance headphones were partially created to deal with how receivers powered their headphone jack. The step down process of the speaker amps supposedly had something to do with it. Basically high impedance cans worked great with AVRs, which were the main Headphone setup until Sony launched the Walkman in the 80s, and honestly headphones were a niche until the last 20 years or so, with extreme growth the past 10 or so years (thank you internet!)

Hopefully that helps the newer folks a little. It's all Ohm's law (V=I*R). Resistance goes up, current (I) drops. Voltage goes up, current drops. Current is what creates heat. Efficiency is very important, probably the most important, when choosing a headphone and figuring out amp requirements. 

Another good thing to see visualized.
Let's say we have a 90db/mW headphone. First, this is already 5db above the safe listening limit, at ONE MILLIWATT!. Doubling of amplifier power, nets a 3 db gain.

90db/1mW
93db/2mW
96db/4mW
99db/8mW
102db/16mW
105db/32mW
108db/64mW
111db/128mW
114db/256mW
117db/512mW
120db/ 1,024mW (basically 1 Watt)
123db/ 2,048mW
126db/4,096mW
129db/8,192mW

You can buy some very nice amps for very little money, that can put out a clean 1 Watt of power into a broad range of impedances. Schiit Magni 3 for $99 will easily exceed what most people need. As you can see, it really doesn't take a lot of power to drive a 90db headphone, which in reality, is low for many headphones. Most are more efficient than that. Some aren't, and they're infamous for it.


----------



## mindbomb

I don't know if one really needs the realizer. If you have in ear microphones, than you can record your own hrtf from different speaker positions (either with an actual 7.1 system or you can use a single speaker and a swivel chair) and then just do the virtual surround in software in equalizer apo. Okay, so you lose the support for dolby atmos, and the head tracker, but it would be pretty damn good.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Can we expect an X7 successor from Creative? Kinda miss such a device for consoles now (to play at midnight) that I have more time for gaming. Don't wanna pay 300€ for this thing.
The G5 would have been awesome if it only supported consoles and didn't have CrapSBX.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> Can we expect an X7 successor from Creative? Kinda miss such a device for consoles now (to play at midnight) that I have more time for gaming. Don't wanna pay 300€ for this thing.
> The G5 would have been awesome if it only supported consoles and didn't have CrapSBX.


Mixamp connected to an external amp using IEMatch to get rid of hiss?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I have the Philips DHP device which is better than the Mixamp. It's moddable but a good mod with new psu, opamps, routing DHP to the lineout adds at least 200€+. Might as well get a X7 for it, enjoy SBX (which I like most) and have mic support on top of it (still have the BT dongle).



Spoiler: :|



guess I'm cheap :[]


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> I have the Philips DHP device which is better than the Mixamp. It's moddable but a good mod with new psu, opamps, routing DHP to the lineout adds at least 200€+. Might as well get a X7 for it, enjoy SBX (which I like most) and have mic support on top of it (still have the BT dongle).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Used mixamp with iematch will be 1/3 the cost


----------



## Fegefeuer

which wired Mixamp was the last good one? IIRC the latest Mixamp has another (more reverby) DHP profile? Might be wrong.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> which wired Mixamp was the last good one? IIRC the latest Mixamp has another (more reverby) DHP profile? Might be wrong.


2013 (the fully black one)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2018)

I dunno how many still own the X7 but it's still kind of a nightmare at times in terms of the software.

There will be times when I turn it on, and the headphone volume will be at 100%, and one depending on source, one side will be at 50% while the other is 100%.

So I have a routine where EVERY time I turn on the X7, I have to check the software to make sure everything is normal. I have blasted my ears off a couple of times. Thankfully it was with the He400 which can take a bit of abuse.

So yeah, I'm kinda over it in terms if somethiso purely controlled on the software level (even the volume knob).

Sennheiser sent me the GSX 1000 which even though it's tied to the windows volume control, I at least know where the volume is set when I turn it on, and there is no software nonsense. Everything is on the device, which makes it so much more easy. Too bad it's PC only.

I'm half considering selling the X7 and getting like another Magni, and whatever. Maybe go back to Audio-GD stuff, and getting another Mixamp-esque device for the virtual surround. Creative needs to get on the ball with the firmware/software updates. I won't get anything else from them until then.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno how many still own the X7 but it's still kind of a nightmare at times in terms of the software.
> 
> There will be times when I turn it on, and the headphone volume will be at 100%, and one depending on source, one side will be at 50% while the other is 100%.
> 
> ...


Or setting it at %100 permanently and attaching another amp via line out


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Or setting it at %100 permanently and attaching another amp via line out


That's the thing though, I would STILL need to go into the software and put the half volume changed back to 100%. I dunno what causes this, but it's random.


When I say this, I don't mean 100% of total amp volume, but 100% of whatever volume it's supposed to get from the amp at any time. Example: left channel at 50%, and right channel at 100%. So there is a driver imbalance.

I have to check this for EVERY attached source on the software. So usb, optical, line in, Bluetooth. I'll take an screenshot of this to show you next time.

Attaching an external amp wouldn't fix this. And in any case, that's a waste of a perfectly good amp in the X7. It's an update away from a fix. Guess I need to contact creative.


----------



## toshly

would a schiit magni uber 2 and sound blaster z drive the hd800s?


----------



## Yethal

toshly said:


> would a schiit magni uber 2 and sound blaster z drive the hd800s?


Don't want to judge but if you can afford hd800s then surely you can afford a better amp than magni 2


----------



## pietcux

toshly said:


> would a schiit magni uber 2 and sound blaster z drive the hd800s?


Yes that Wound be possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2018)

The only questionable aspect is the HD800S's large impedance spike where the Magni couldn't possibly account for and in those frequencies will sound starved for power? Not sure where the impedance spike is, but if it's anywhere near the bass, it can make it sound thinner than it should. IIRC, the HD800S doesn't have a flat impedance curve and can go up to almost 700ohms in specific frequencies.

Note: Judigng by Tyll's graph, it IS in the bass, so I have to question the validity of the Magni for the HD800S. I'd definitely pick something a bit more powerful and capable to get the best out of the HD800S, especially if you want fullness down low.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yep, 640 Ohm at 100Hz afaik. I'd at least get a Valhalla 2 for the HD 800.


----------



## AxelCloris

I've been using the X7 with my PS4 recently and I've left it running even when not in use, so I haven't run into the problem MLE is describing. Before I hooked it up, I did a firmware update (slow as hell) so it's current. The firmware is old, which shows Creative hasn't really looked at the X7 in some time. And their app doesn't ever connect to the device via BT, so that's completely useless for me. For my uses, the X7 serves no purpose other than creating a processed 2 channel signal that can be sent out to an external amp. For that purpose, it's a pretty expensive device. I'd love something more compact and less expensive that could serve that function equally well.


----------



## Yethal

Something like the Creative G5 but actually working


----------



## AxelCloris (May 4, 2018)

Exactly, something the size and price of the G5 with the functionality it should have would be excellent.

edit: Added more. My post didn't meet the posting guidelines.


----------



## Colibri

I think I will end trying to plug a ModMic 5 directly on my motherboard, and buying an JDS Labs The Element and a Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO or Amiron Home or another headset that you think will be better for gaming (Soundstage, etc...) and it will end up for less than 1000$.
What do you think about it ?


----------



## pietcux

Colibri said:


> I think I will end trying to plug a ModMic 5 directly on my motherboard, and buying an JDS Labs The Element and a Beyerdynamic DT 1990 PRO or Amiron Home or another headset that you think will be better for gaming (Soundstage, etc...) and it will end up for less than 1000$.
> What do you think about it ?


I have a DT1990 and an Amiron. Thinking of selling both.


----------



## mbyrnes

Does Massdrop still sell their mic? Seemed pretty decent for $25 I think. Velcro attachment versus magnetic. I have one, but I game so infrequently with a mic, I can't testify to quality versus other mics I have. I pretty much just use the PC37X at this point, but I also have an older Modmic (4 maybe?). 

MLE, I have never had the issue you are having with your X7. I have no idea which firmware I'm on, but it's not the most recent. Don't have issues with connecting to Bluetooth either. Maybe leave it on all the time? It can't draw much power in idle, I wouldn't think anyway. That would drive me crazy! Check your PM, have a freebie upgrade for you, that I'm sure the community would like!


----------



## Colibri

pietcux said:


> I have a DT1990 and an Amiron. Thinking of selling both.



If you own both can you help decide which one will be the best for games ? And why do you want to sell them ?


----------



## pietcux

Colibri said:


> If you own both can you help decide which one will be the best for games ? And why do you want to sell them ?


The Amiron has much less clamping force than the DT1990. I sell them because I do not really need them. I do not use any of them for gaming. I game with Sennheiser Game One /GSP600/HD650/HD660S/HD800.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't have the problem with the X7 until the latest firmware which is like over a year old or something.

I was thinking maybe it's something I'm doing, but then how the hell can I control just ONE channel's volume? I'd definitely have to go into the settings for that. It's annoying.

I turn off the X7 because I don't like the light when it's powered on. Then again its sleep mode is dim, so you guys may be right and I should leave it on.


----------



## Pairzilla

Does anyone know how good the sound blaster G5 is compared to the X7 in terms of SQ?


----------



## raband (May 4, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I didn't have the problem with the X7 until the latest firmware which is like over a year old or something.



Firmware
Sound Blaster X7 Firmware Update for Windows 
Filesize : 4.21 MB 


 Download




Show Details

Release date : *30 Apr 18*
This download contains an updated firmware for Sound Blaster® X7. For more details, read the rest of this web release note.


----------



## illram

I have never had many issues with the X7 but yeah it's UI is sort of clunky. I'll have to check out the newest firmware update from a week ago...

I feel like with Windows Sonic improving and Dolby Atmos for headphones also now available, the X7's value proposition is dropping. I think the next level is Realiser level personalized calibration and simulation, but cheaper, e.g. the dongle Creative exhibited a month or two ago that maps your ears. 

I currently have an X7 and an E5 and honestly Windows Sonic from the Xbox to the E5 out to my Koss ESP950 is pretty dang good even compared to the X7. Could be game specific. It used to be terrible but MS has improved it alot.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I turn off the X7 because I don't like the light when it's powered on. Then again its sleep mode is dim, so you guys may be right and I should leave it on.


I absolutely love these things for reducing the brightness of lights: https://amazon.com/gp/product/B01BZBBITE/ I use them on pretty much every single LED in my bedroom and several in my living room.



raband said:


> Release date : *30 Apr 18*


Whoa, it 's been so long since the last update, I did not expect that.


----------



## mindbomb

illram said:


> I have never had many issues with the X7 but yeah it's UI is sort of clunky. I'll have to check out the newest firmware update from a week ago...
> 
> I feel like with Windows Sonic improving and Dolby Atmos for headphones also now available, the X7's value proposition is dropping. I think the next level is Realiser level personalized calibration and simulation, but cheaper, e.g. the dongle Creative exhibited a month or two ago that maps your ears.
> 
> I currently have an X7 and an E5 and honestly Windows Sonic from the Xbox to the E5 out to my Koss ESP950 is pretty dang good even compared to the X7. Could be game specific. It used to be terrible but MS has improved it alot.



I have no faith in that new creative thing. Whenever I see a computer trying to convert an image to shapes, I think of the Apple Newton on the Simpsons. I think you can do personalization if you buy in ear microphones, which apparently are only like $100, it would just be a relatively involved process.


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> I have no faith in that new creative thing. Whenever I see a computer trying to convert an image to shapes, I think of the Apple Newton on the Simpsons. I think you can do personalization if you buy in ear microphones, which apparently are only like $100, it would just be a relatively involved process.


Yeah you could be right. I'm rooting for it to be good, personally. Haven't tried or really looked into the Audeze Mobius either but it's another entry, at least, into this little niche. I just think it would be great if something approaching the Realiser A16 could be an affordable mass market product, in the next 5 years or something. Seems the trend is headed there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 5, 2018)

raband said:


> Firmware
> Sound Blaster X7 Firmware Update for Windows
> Filesize : 4.21 MB
> 
> ...


Wow, there is a god. Lol. I'll do it when i get home.

And thanks Axel, looks like I'll be buying some of those.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wow, there is a god. Lol. I'll do it when i get home.
> 
> And thanks Axel, looks like I'll be buying some of those.



Unless you only have a Macbook


----------



## sumpao

This is one kind of research


----------



## AxelCloris

WhiteHartMart said:


> Unless you only have a Macbook


I was able to do the last X7 firmware update using my Macbook Pro. Does the new one require a PC for the update?


----------



## hisXLNC

Looking at the following:

Sennheiser HD800
Mr Speakers Ether Flow
Stax L500/L700/007

Anyone have any input?


----------



## toshly

anyone know how a ae-5 virtual surround sounds compared to sound blaster z?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

AxelCloris said:


> I was able to do the last X7 firmware update using my Macbook Pro. Does the new one require a PC for the update?



Yea, can only see a Windows download at the moment - Mac one is still from 2016?


----------



## AxelCloris

WhiteHartMart said:


> Yea, can only see a Windows download at the moment - Mac one is still from 2016?


Yeah, I ran into that last night when I did the update. Thankfully I have a desktop PC at home, but I mostly use my MacBook.



hisXLNC said:


> Looking at the following:
> 
> Sennheiser HD800
> Mr Speakers Ether Flow
> ...


I've gamed using the HD 800/HD 800 S, Ether Flow (the headphones I own), and the SR-009. I can't comment on the other STAX models for gaming, sorry.

From memory HD 800 gave me the largest soundstage and the excellent positional accuracy. My Ether Flow always gives me a highly immersive experience with a medium sized soundstage presentation. The SR-009 was an absolute beast for detail retrieval and pinpointing sounds, likely helped by the sheer speed of its electrostatic drivers.


My Creative BT-W2 arrived yesterday and setup was simple following @Yethal's instructions. I like how the PS4 Pro has a USB port on the rear, so the dongle's LED will be hidden behind the console. It took me a minute to figure out why I was getting no surround audio, but the PS4 switched to audio output via the dongle rather than optical. Once I switched that setting, everything seems to be working smoothly.

The X7 continues to impress with its versatility, but man there are just so many features on it I don't end up using.


----------



## raband

When I'm gaming - I usually have 2 kids, an angry cat and a disgruntled dog around me.

If I go the open back HD800S - what amp should I use?

If I go the closed back MX50 - what DAC should I feed off?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

raband said:


> When I'm gaming - I usually have 2 kids, an angry cat and a disgruntled dog around me.
> 
> If I go the open back HD800S - what amp should I use?
> 
> If I go the closed back MX50 - what DAC should I feed off?


The HD800 is hard to beat for gaming, BUT it being an open back with everything you have going on (kids and cat) would you like to drown that sound out with a closed back? Or do you need to be able to hear them?


----------



## Jornel

Hello guys.

i´m new in the forum, so sory for any mystake.

I recently upgrade my sound setup and i´m currently using the Sennheiser gsx 1000 + Philips SHP 9500 with V-Moda Boom Pro mic and i´m geting bad positioning audio in CSGO (for example), i can´t figure footsteps or gunshots properly. I have +2000h in game and this never happened to me.
Even with 2.0 sterio on gsx 1000 i can´t seem to ear where sounds come from. I changed the settings on windows when i instaled the gsx 1000 as is on manual instalation and i still have the same problem.

Do you guys have the same problem? Do i have a defected product? Do i need to change my cans (i was looking to senneheiser 598se)?
I read somewere that some usb ports are geting in the way of the gsx 1000.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 10, 2018)

I'm currently using the GSX1000 myself. Make sure on your PC you right click on the sound devices (the speaker icon on the taskbar, select sound devices, then right click on the GSX main audio. Configure speakers to 7 channels, and save all that. On the GSX itself, make sure to select 7.1, on the wavy line on the gsx display and  make sure it shows one white plus symbol, for a standard room size (for best surround balance). I suggest leaving everything else off on the gsx dsiplay. The only white icons should be the plus button on the wavy line on the left, the headphone icon on the top left, and the 7.1 on the bottom right.

And for games itself, NEVER PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTION IN GAME. That is made for basic signals. These devices are MEANT to be set to home theater, speaker type presets because THEN the device mixes it down for your headphone. Again. DO NOT PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTIONS IN GAME WHEN USING VIRTUAL SURROUND DEVICES LIKE THE GSX 1000.

If that does not help you, then I dunno. You're screwed. I don't have CSGO and don't know the in game options.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm currently using the GSX1000 myself. Make sure on your PC you right click on the sound devices (the speaker icon on the taskbar, select sound devices, then right click on the GSX main audio. Configure speakers to 7 channels, and save all that. On the GSX itself, make sure to select 7.1, on the wavy line on the gsx display and  make sure it shows one white plus symbol, for a standard room size (for best surround balance). I suggest leaving everything else off on the gsx dsiplay. The only white icons should be the plus button on the wavy line on the left, the headphone icon on the top left, and the 7.1 on the bottom right.
> 
> And for games itself, NEVER PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTION IN GAME. That is made for basic signals. These devices are MEANT to be set to home theater, speaker type presets because THEN the device mixes it down for your headphone. Again. DO NOT PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTIONS IN GAME WHEN USING VIRTUAL SURROUND DEVICES LIKE THE GSX 1000.
> 
> If that does not help you, then I dunno. You're screwed. I don't have CSGO and don't know the in game options.


regardless of what device someone is using for processing surround sound, should they always use "home theater" type in game presets?


----------



## Jornel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm currently using the GSX1000 myself. Make sure on your PC you right click on the sound devices (the speaker icon on the taskbar, select sound devices, then right click on the GSX main audio. Configure speakers to 7 channels, and save all that. On the GSX itself, make sure to select 7.1, on the wavy line on the gsx display and  make sure it shows one white plus symbol, for a standard room size (for best surround balance). I suggest leaving everything else off on the gsx dsiplay. The only white icons should be the plus button on the wavy line on the left, the headphone icon on the top left, and the 7.1 on the bottom right.
> 
> And for games itself, NEVER PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTION IN GAME. That is made for basic signals. These devices are MEANT to be set to home theater, speaker type presets because THEN the device mixes it down for your headphone. Again. DO NOT PICK THE HEADPHONE OPTIONS IN GAME WHEN USING VIRTUAL SURROUND DEVICES LIKE THE GSX 1000.
> 
> If that does not help you, then I dunno. You're screwed. I don't have CSGO and don't know the in game options.



For CSGO sound options are: Headphones, speakers or 5.1 Sorround. Should i pick 5.1?
You think i shoud trade my SHP9500 for the 598se?

Thanks


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Yeah, I ran into that last night when I did the update. Thankfully I have a desktop PC at home, but I mostly use my MacBook.
> 
> 
> I've gamed using the HD 800/HD 800 S, Ether Flow (the headphones I own), and the SR-009. I can't comment on the other STAX models for gaming, sorry.
> ...


Glad it's working for you man.



Jornel said:


> For CSGO sound options are: Headphones, speakers or 5.1 Sorround. Should i pick 5.1?
> You think i shoud trade my SHP9500 for the 598se?
> 
> Thanks


Use 5.1 surround. HD598 are pretty amazing for gaming but they don't accept 3.5mm jack without an adapter so attaching a BoomPro is a bit of a hassle.


----------



## Jornel

Thanks for the help guys. I changed for 5.1 and disable the 3D sound thing on audio options and it all worked 200%. Now i can say the gsx 1000 is working prety good.
Everyone say the HD598 is good (btw what´s the diference between the HD598 and the HD599?) but should i switch from the shp9500 to the HD598 or HD599 for gaming?
I´m happy with the shp9500 but i´m always happy to upgrade for better...if i have the budget!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What 3D sound thing? On windows? Because since the GSX has its own, you definitely don't want any OTHER turned on.

I have never heard the SHP9500, but Sennheiser 5XX line are always a good bet.


----------



## Jornel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What 3D sound thing? On windows? Because since the GSX has its own, you definitely don't want any OTHER turned on.
> 
> I have never heard the SHP9500, but Sennheiser 5XX line are always a good bet.



The 3D thing is an option on CSGO audio options that was turned on. I turned it off and set the audio to 5.1 and booom! Amazing sound after that!


----------



## GrendizerX

Can someone help with my situation? I'm going to make it as simple and straight forward as possible:

I have:
- Laptop (UBS 3.0, 3,5mm, NO* Optical)
- PS4 Pro
- AD700X Headphones as recommended by this thread
- Triton 720 (broken headset, working decoder box)

I play FPS games:
- Fortnite (PC)
- Call of duty (PS4)

I want to be able to hear detailed directional audio (surround) and accurate positional distance. What do I need? Would a headset just be an easy solution?


----------



## headphonesonly

GrendizerX said:


> Can someone help with my situation? I'm going to make it as simple and straight forward as possible:
> 
> I have:
> - Laptop (UBS 3.0, 3,5mm, NO* Optical)
> ...


Your headphones are perfect for the games you play.
If you want vss you could get the turtle beach dss which is on eBay for $10 (Sound quality wise it’s the same as the Astro mix amp which is what MLE uses). Don’t buy the mix amp tr because it has horrible sound quality compared to the older versions.

Creative g5 is also good but vss doesn’t work on ps4.

If you are rich then the Creative x7 is a great option.

The Mayflower arc has amazing sound quality but no vss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

He already has the AX720 decoder box. He can attach the AD700X to the puck on the AX720's cable. That puck separates and reveals two audio jacks. He has all he needs for the ps4.

For your laptop, buy something like the Asus Xonar U3 which is like $45 which is a usb device that has all you need for the AD700X. Dolby Headphone vss, decent enough amp for the easy to drive AD700X etc. It's a cheap and reliable product. 

Make sure you download the drivers for it, change pc audio to 7.1, and make sure the software is on its exciter, higher power mode. Also when turning on Dolby Headphone use the DH2 for standard room size. I believe it defaults to DH3 which is really bad. JUST PAY ATTENTION to all you can do in the software. PC devices aren't just plug and play. You always have to mess with settings to get things working properly.

Btw, I don't use the Astro Mixamp. I haven't had one in years. I use the Creative X7. On the go for my gaming laptop, I still have the U3.


----------



## GrendizerX

headphonesonly said:


> Your headphones are perfect for the games you play.
> If you want vss you could get the turtle beach dss which is on eBay for $10 (Sound quality wise it’s the same as the Astro mix amp which is what MLE uses). Don’t buy the mix amp tr because it has horrible sound quality compared to the older versions.
> 
> Creative g5 is also good but vss doesn’t work on ps4.
> ...





Thank you for the info!

I am just looking for all in one solution so I don't have multiple devices for different platforms.

I'm still confused with VSS and soundstage/positional. The AD700X definitely allows me to hear around me on my laptop soundcard but I feel like it can do more. For example, if someone is walking in front of me versus behind me, it sounds the exact same. If someone is one floor up or down from where I am, I can't tell which floor their on. Also, and this is something that bugs me a lot, when someone walks behind me, the audio almost cuts out from left and right for a very short time but still rather annoying. Another instance is distance from where I am versus where someone else is is so unclear. and questional.

The mentioned above I've actually done extensive research on but still so confused. I wish their was just a general device that majority just use LOL.


----------



## GrendizerX (May 13, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> He already has the AX720 decoder box. He can attach the AD700X to the puck on the AX720's cable. That puck separates and reveals two audio jacks. Not sure how many times I gotta repeat this. He has all he needs.





So I've gone ahead and tried that with optical into the ps4 from the decoder but I still heard only stereo audio barely any directional audio in comparison to my audio on my laptop through just 3.5mm. Also I've read your first post (of course lol) and tried that decoder the second I got the AD700X, and i gotta say I wasn't impressed at all. My Tritons sounded better on my PS4 in terms of directional audio than the Ad700X, of course quality of audio goes to Ad700x.

I know that the X7 is expensive (almost $500 CAD) but honestly if this is a end all fix all solution then I don't care and get it. I purchase for quality and if it's their, then my purchase becomes an investment. I did notice I can use it for its optical connection for my PS4 and then USB for my laptop. A lot of extra bells and whistles I don't see my self using.

I guess my question is, will this actually make a difference for me large enough to spend that kind of money?


----------



## headphonesonly

GrendizerX said:


> So I've gone ahead and tried that with optical into the ps4 from the decoder but I still heard only stereo audio barely any directional audio in comparison to my audio on my laptop through just 3.5mm. Also I've read your first post (of course lol) and tried that decoder the second I got the AD700X, and i gotta say I wasn't impressed at all. My Tritons sounded better on my PS4 in terms of directional audio than the Ad700X, of course quality of audio goes to Ad700x.


Here’s my setup:

-Sennheiser hd 579
-turtle beach dss (I use this with my ps4 only)
-syba sonic usb dac/amp (mic input for ps4, sound card for pc)
-Razer Surround Pro

I’ve been pretty happy with this setup and it’s very affordable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

Is the PS4 set to optical digital - Dolby Digital as the main audio source? Because if not, every other input only gets pcm stereo which you do not want.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

And again, EVERY GAME YOU PLAY must be set to something like home theater, NOT SURROUND HEADPHONES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.


----------



## GrendizerX

headphonesonly said:


> Here’s my setup:
> 
> -Sennheiser hd 579
> -turtle beach dss (I use this with my ps4 only)
> ...




That's the other thing that's confusing which is software to "adjust" directional audio. In another thread I was recommended this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/?source=typ_redirect

But I scanned it on virustotal and some returned trojans although it could be false positive I don't know.


----------



## GrendizerX

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Is the PS4 set to optical digital - Dolby Digital as the main audio source? Because if not, every other input only gets pcm stereo which you do not want.




Yes my PS4 is set to optical since I purchased it.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> And again, EVERY GAME YOU PLAY must be set to something like home theater, NOT SURROUND HEADPHONES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.




Fortnite doesn't have audio options to adjust other than controls for music, effects, etc. On my PC also nothing adjusted or tweaked audio related.

Cod is on PS4 so other than optical connection through the settings, I have not touched anything else audio related.


----------



## headphonesonly

GrendizerX said:


> That's the other thing that's confusing which is software to "adjust" directional audio. In another thread I was recommended this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/?source=typ_redirect
> 
> But I scanned it on virustotal and some returned trojans although it could be false positive I don't know.


It’s really up to you. If you want to play it safe then spend $20 on the Razer software. Otherwise you could risk it and try that other thing.


----------



## headphonesonly

I’m pretty sure there’s also a free version of Razer surround


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

Then I dunno. I'm not there, and things MUST be tweaked for PC to get things working right. When you first use any device, it's defaulted to barebones stereo signal at 16bit/44khz. First thing you always do with dacs is set to something like 24bit/96khz or more, etc. Though With gaming devices they tend to be limited to 16/48 because you just set speaker configuration to 5.1 or 7.1. THEY WILL NOT BE THIS BY DEFAULT. When choosing 5.1/7.1 the highest bit rate you can go is 16/48. when choosing stereo, you might be able to get 24/192, etc.

You need to learn to configure this stuff or you will never get pc audio devices to work as intended.

As for Razer Surround, I think it's the worst vss. IdI definitely recommend something else. Anything else.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

As for your preference of AX720 over AD700X that's entirely subjective. We all have different tastes, but the ''surround" should be similar since they are both gonna take the same processing from the AX720 decoder box. Some headphones do better than others are depth and soundstage, sure, but directionality should be more or less the same. Perhaps you just like the presentation of a closed headphone more than open.


----------



## Yethal

GrendizerX said:


> Can someone help with my situation? I'm going to make it as simple and straight forward as possible:
> 
> I have:
> - Laptop (UBS 3.0, 3,5mm, NO* Optical)
> ...


For console gaming you have everything you need, you may want to add a microphone if you play with friends. For PC gaming there is a ton of USB devices that will provide the experience that you need however it would be very helpful if you told us your desired budget.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

Just had my car rear window smashed, and my hatchback damaged. Guess who just worked this week and then some essentially for free? THIS GUY.

Don't ever let anyone tell you that everything happens for a reason.


----------



## ironmonkey27

So I know this thread is very much a ‘surround’ orientated conversation, but just wondered anyone’s opinion on using a more traditional dac/amp for gaming?
I experimented with a SMSL entry level dac and found the stereo results to be really good with wide soundstage cans (DT990, HD598), and I’m curious how others feel about this vs a surround option. I also currently own a creative x7 which o do enjoy a lot it has to be said. 
Heard great things about the mayflower ARC for gaming for example?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

ironmonkey27 said:


> So I know this thread is very much a ‘surround’ orientated conversation, but just wondered anyone’s opinion on using a more traditional dac/amp for gaming?
> I experimented with a SMSL entry level dac and found the stereo results to be really good with wide soundstage cans (DT990, HD598), and I’m curious how others feel about this vs a surround option. I also currently own a creative x7 which o do enjoy a lot it has to be said.
> Heard great things about the mayflower ARC for gaming for example?



I also used an entry level SMSL (793) for a while and also then moved to the X7. While there's no comparison in feature set I also feel the surround options of the X7 take it to another level for games audio wise. Couldn't go back for PS4 gaming now - just as well really as I needed something to justify the additional £200+ outlay!!


----------



## ironmonkey27

WhiteHartMart said:


> I also used an entry level SMSL (793) for a while and also then moved to the X7. While there's no comparison in feature set I also feel the surround options of the X7 take it to another level for games audio wise. Couldn't go back for PS4 gaming now - just as well really as I needed something to justify the additional £200+ outlay!!



Agree to a point, guess I just have the bug of wanting something better! 
In my experience the sound from a stereo dac/amp was just cleaner and more ‘pure’, I found anyway. 
Anyone have any experience with the Mayflower ARC for gaming? Or regularly use a stereo dac/amp and have any thoughts?


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## GrendizerX (May 13, 2018)

I'm sure many already know about this A3D:



My goodness, can I get my audio to sound this good? LOL (I know the history of this company with creative).

Btw it seems that majority just have the X7 for gaming and although it is expensive, for gaming, I'm assuming its the best we have to work with.


----------



## headphonesonly

ironmonkey27 said:


> Agree to a point, guess I just have the bug of wanting something better!
> In my experience the sound from a stereo dac/amp was just cleaner and more ‘pure’, I found anyway.
> Anyone have any experience with the Mayflower ARC for gaming? Or regularly use a stereo dac/amp and have any thoughts?


This is the the cheapest good dac/amp with a mic input 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009...syba+sonic&dpPl=1&dpID=41b40B9qQCL&ref=plSrch 

The mayflower arc is god tier though.


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## ironmonkey27

GrendizerX said:


> I'm sure many already know about this A3D:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Aureal 3D? New one to me? 
Vaguely remember something with a similar name a few years back, but my memory is pretty awful .
For the record - I think the x7 is pretty good for what it is, was just curious if anyone used stereo and preferred or if anyone had gone back to a stereo solution after using x7/mixamp?


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 13, 2018)

ironmonkey27 said:


> Aureal 3D? New one to me?
> Vaguely remember something with a similar name a few years back, but my memory is pretty awful .
> For the record - I think the x7 is pretty good for what it is, was just curious if anyone used stereo and preferred or if anyone had gone back to a stereo solution after using x7/mixamp?


For a long time, I stopped using the X7 and just went stereo. I didn't get back in to virtual surround gaming until very recently. Not because I all the sudden preferred stereo, but because I was tired of using big boy headphones and connecting them to gear. I did a LOT of my gaming this past year just with the ps4 controller headphone jack and the Koss KSC75/Sportapro. I just wasnt into 'gaming' in the audio sense that much anymore. I was mainly just using my tv speakers.

That being said, if I'm gonna use big headphones and connecting them to gear, there's no excuse for me to not use virtual surround. I know it's weird coming from me, but I'm more about picture fidelity more than audio nowadays.


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## Mad Lust Envy

The Aureal tech demo sounds pretty good, but it's pretty much what ImI used to with the tried and true vss solutions, just a bit higher virtual speaker placement. It's definitely good though.


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## GrendizerX

ironmonkey27 said:


> Aureal 3D? New one to me?
> Vaguely remember something with a similar name a few years back, but my memory is pretty awful .
> For the record - I think the x7 is pretty good for what it is, was just curious if anyone used stereo and preferred or if anyone had gone back to a stereo solution after using x7/mixamp?




The company was back in the 90's early 00's which were sued by creative and although creative lost the lawsuit, A3D still went bankrupt. A3D was apparently years ahead of its time for audio.


----------



## BrightCandle

ironmonkey27 said:


> So I know this thread is very much a ‘surround’ orientated conversation, but just wondered anyone’s opinion on using a more traditional dac/amp for gaming?



Equalizer APO, Hesuvi and VoiceMeter as a combination will allow you to add Sennheiser GSX 1000 ( or SBX Pro, CMSS, Razor,the standard 48 heads and a lot of other options) like surround sound to any Amp and DAC. The main drawback of doing so is the stack of software required. Windows volume control will no longer work as VoiceMeter/Virtual cable is involved. It is still a solution that can get you unhindered sound for music and let you try all the surround options to find the best match for you. Work OK on my modi/magni setup but ultimately the drawbacks of the software had me back with the Sennheiser GSX 1000 and magni just for the convenience.


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## Mad Lust Envy

In hindsight, I question the legality of those programs due to free access to licensed technology, hence why I will no longer talk about them here.


----------



## ironmonkey27

BrightCandle said:


> Equalizer APO, Hesuvi and VoiceMeter as a combination will allow you to add Sennheiser GSX 1000 ( or SBX Pro, CMSS, Razor,the standard 48 heads and a lot of other options) like surround sound to any Amp and DAC. The main drawback of doing so is the stack of software required. Windows volume control will no longer work as VoiceMeter/Virtual cable is involved. It is still a solution that can get you unhindered sound for music and let you try all the surround options to find the best match for you. Work OK on my modi/magni setup but ultimately the drawbacks of the software had me back with the Sennheiser GSX 1000 and magni just for the convenience.



Unfortunately I game solely on PS4 so the above are not options for me (sounds like a lot of effort too).


----------



## Fegefeuer

I thought about that as well but where would you start? I think the only problem with HeSuVi is that it uses HRIR files *named* after licensed VSTs. Anything else is not illegal, neither the method of recording these impulse responses, nor the method of using EQ APO's convolver. Virtually impossible to question the legality of the software as it doesn't use drivers, GUI, any software packages or any files at all.


----------



## Steven Seagal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> In hindsight, I question the legality of those programs due to free access to licensed technology, hence why I will no longer talk about them here.



Why would be a convolution with a self-recorded impulse response be illegal?
All programms are open source and free to use.
It's just simple mathematics.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Steven Seagal said:


> Why would be a convolution with a self-recorded impulse response be illegal?
> All programms are open source and free to use.
> It's just simple mathematics.



Because it's in effect giving us licensed processing for free. Like I said I dunno the legalities of it.


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## headphonesonly

Does anyone have experience with the creative xfi mb3 software?


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## mindbomb (May 14, 2018)

Ironically, hesuvi's version of windows sonic for headphones and dolby atmos for headphones is arguably better than the actual version, since you can use them with windows set to 7.1. Though on the flip side, you are limited to 7.1 with hesuvi, so no height channels like you can get if an application actually supports atmos/sonic output.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 14, 2018)

mindbomb said:


> Ironically, hesuvi's version of windows sonic for headphones and dolby atmos for headphones is arguably better than the actual version, since you can use them with windows set to 7.1. Though on the flip side, you are limited to 7.1 with hesuvi, so no height channels like you can get if an application actually supports atmos/sonic output.



I don't have hesuvi setup anymore but from what I've tested of every dsp devicedthat allowed 5.1 and 7.1, there was NO difference between them in terms of virtual surround accuracy. Like none. At all.

Testing includes DH, THX Tru Studio, and SBX. I wouldn't be about to say which setting it was whether 5.1 or 7.1.


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## ironmonkey27

Any thoughts - 
Budget £200 (I have a gift voucher ) for a pair of new headphones. Already use DT990 and HD598 for gaming, anything better in terms of soundstage and separation/positioning available?
Massdrop AKG7xx any improvement on the above? 
I find tiny DT990s a bit fatiguing, and the HD598 a bit to warm and full, maybe it’s just me
Use all the above with an x7 on PS4.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 15, 2018)

So you want something very neutral. Try a K601. It's $178 ish on Amazon. More neutral than HD598, an not fatiguing like the 990. I think you'll really like it. It's fantastic for the price. Of course I reviewed it, so check the review.

The K7XX will be warm and fifu like the 598, but more refined and like an upgrade of the 598 sound.


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## ironmonkey27

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So you want something very neutral. Try a K601. It's $178 ish on Amazon. More neutral than HD598, an not fatiguing like the 990. I think you'll really like it. It's fantastic for the price. Of course I reviewed it, so check the review.
> 
> The K7XX will be warm and fifu like the 598, but more refined and like an upgrade of the 598 sound.



You’d go with a K601 over a K701/2?


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## Mad Lust Envy

The K700 series will sound more like the 598, and I'm sure you want to get something different.


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## raband

HE400i??

You're covered for "normal"

Try something different?


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## ironmonkey27

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The K700 series will sound more like the 598, and I'm sure you want to get something different.



Ok, thanks for the advice. Seems like the K601 is hard to find in the uk, from my quick googling anyway.
Is there a comparable neutral equivalent, with wide soundstage - and an upgrade on DT990/HD508, mainly for gaming?


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## mbyrnes

Well I hope no one was tossing around the idea of grabbing a Smyth Research Realizer A16 at $2300. It is now $4000, as they have teamed up with a dealer to distribute the A16.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That price hurts my soul.


----------



## mbyrnes

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That price hurts my soul.



I think they really screwed up. They just priced themselves out of most people's budgets. They were already God level pricing before. 

It's not that it isn't an amazing product. But bringing in the old (dealer) pricing scheme won't work. Unless they are shifting gears due to lack of sales so far. That would be a mistake on their part. Many people have to save a while to purchase something like this. Schiit has probably sold a lot more Yggys than we think (same price as the A16 was before the hike). 

I'm glad I got in, but this really sucks for everyone who didn't.


----------



## AppleheadMay

mbyrnes said:


> I think they really screwed up. They just priced themselves out of most people's budgets. They were already God level pricing before.
> 
> It's not that it isn't an amazing product. But bringing in the old (dealer) pricing scheme won't work. Unless they are shifting gears due to lack of sales so far. That would be a mistake on their part. Many people have to save a while to purchase something like this. Schiit has probably sold a lot more Yggys than we think (same price as the A16 was before the hike).
> 
> I'm glad I got in, but this really sucks for everyone who didn't.




Indeed. I got in as well and was planning to buy a second one for the living room after testing my first one, even at the previous full price.
But with the new 100% extra price I’ll just forget about it. I’m not putting over 2k in the pockets of a distributor that ‘d like to get rich quickly.
There probably won’t be much sales anymore after the kickstarter/preorder ones and similar devices/solutions are already on the horizon.


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## Fegefeuer

"It's dead, Jim"

Well, at least to me. With that price they can forget a lot of customers. Should have gotten in when it was kickstarting, yes, but I'm not mad about it now that they think such a price is ok to them.


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## mbyrnes

Other options are coming. They might not be as good, but will most people care when they're saving over $3000, and probably most of the money. In reality. 

Maybe they will release a simpler model with cut down features that aren't needed to get the entire experience. Cut the amps, DAC, whatever can be off loaded to something people already own. That makes way to much sense, don't get your hopes up, lol. Initially that's how I was going to use mine. Half the thing I'm buying I'm not even using, just the processor and then sending it to another DAC and amp for playback. 

Smyth may be a great sound engineer, but he's messing this up. A ton has changed since the A8 released.


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## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Well I hope no one was tossing around the idea of grabbing a Smyth Research Realizer A16 at $2300. It is now $4000, as they have teamed up with a dealer to distribute the A16.


It was prohibitely expensive when it cost 1.5k. Now it's absurd.


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## illram

I chewed off all my fingernails when I bought in at the presale price of $1800 something. $4k is definitely rarefied air territory. Happy I'm getting one but sad this will never be a very popular product.

Cheaper "almost-as-good" products currently in the pipeline are going to eat their lunch, I imagine, unless they make some serious cost cutting steps if/when they offer these for retail purchase.


----------



## illram

raband said:


> If I go the open back HD800S - what amp should I use?



I hook up the iFi Micro ICAN SE to the X7 and it sounds amazing with my HD800S. One of the better amps for the HD800S that is not absurdly expensive, in my opinion. The iFi BL also sounds pretty darn good and has more connectivity options.


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## lenroot77 (May 17, 2018)

Schiit Vali 2 is pretty solid for the hd800’s... when I had the Vali 2 and Mimby a while back I was really surprised how well it sounded.
Anyone on a budget should strongly consider these.

Edit: also 4K for the Smyth... that’s absolutely hilarious. Guess he’s going with produce fewer and sell for a higher cost. Kudos to those who got in early.


----------



## Got the Shakes

illram said:


> I chewed off all my fingernails when I bought in at the presale price of $1800 something. $4k is definitely rarefied air territory. Happy I'm getting one but sad this will never be a very popular product.
> 
> Cheaper "almost-as-good" products currently in the pipeline are going to eat their lunch, I imagine, unless they make some serious cost cutting steps if/when they offer these for retail purchase.



Same as you I had to really think about whether I wanted to put $1800 down on a presale product. I never could have justified $4000, it was hard enough to justify the preorder price. I did it because I finally wanted to end the chase for surround through headphones and gaming is a big part of that. It’s clear with the price increase that they aren’t targeting everyday consumers, they must be gearing towards the professional market.


----------



## jguest

Wow! This is insanely helpful!


----------



## fanto88

Hi guys!

I'm new to the audio world. I would like to change my old Tritton Ax 720 with a new good pair of headphone + mic for around 150€

After a bit of research i found what i think could be a nice pair of headphone + mic

HD 559 with the Foam Mod + V Boom Pro Microphone

But i have some question:

For like 15€ more i can get myself a Samson METEOR MIC instead of a V Boom Pro Microphone, is that better than V Boom Microphone? 

Which one of those 2 is better for not taking too much key sound? I have a blue switch keyboard, and i don't want to make too much noise with the keys.

Will they take game audio 'cause HD559 are open back?

Thanks,
Davide!


----------



## raband

My first step from Trittons was an HD598 and Modmic - best move I ever did.

I don't think the VModa mic will plug into the Sennheisers without mods or adapters, whereas the modmic's are a separate unit.


----------



## fanto88

Well, the ModMic is around 70€, it was a bit too high compared to the price of the Samson METEOR MIC or the Vmoda Boom, so i should think about it a bit. 
Another question: i will buy an hd559 like i said before, change the cable provided with this one (https://www.amazon.it/aggiornamento...526665772&sr=1-1&keywords=hd558+upgrade+cable) will be really upgrade the sound quality instead of the normal cable with an adapter to 3.5mm?


----------



## raband

Nah, don't worry about the cable.

Just go a cheap "lapel" mic to start with.


----------



## mbyrnes

Fanto88, do you still own the the HD558? If so, why the HD559? Why not go with the HD598 or HD599? Or, look at the Massdrop PC37X? It's $119, Basically is a HD598 and has a mic (not removable). If it's only going to be used in the house, the mic shouldn't be an issue. Maybe cheaper and better. Just another option. Maybe I missed something in your post.


----------



## fanto88

I don't own HD558. For now i only have a Tritton Ax 720. I will change it with an HD559 and i will apply the Foam Mod, so they will be similar to a HD599 if i'm not wrong. I just need to find a good microphone to pair that headphone with. 
My two option, for now, are: VBoom Pro Mic and Samson METEOR MIC. Sorry, i'm not english, so it's easy that i messed up something


----------



## lenroot77

Agree with Mbyrnes just get a PC37x or keep an eye out for a good price on the Game One headset.


----------



## fanto88

can't find PC37X anywhere in Italy and Game One Headset are out of price range and aren't the game one and the 559 basically the same?


----------



## mbyrnes

fanto88 said:


> I don't own HD558. For now i only have a Tritton Ax 720. I will change it with an HD559 and i will apply the Foam Mod, so they will be similar to a HD599 if i'm not wrong. I just need to find a good microphone to pair that headphone with.
> My two option, for now, are: VBoom Pro Mic and Samson METEOR MIC. Sorry, i'm not english, so it's easy that i messed up something



You are good my man, if I tried to speak Italian, no one would have a clue what I was talking about at all, lol. 

As an American, I know nothing of costs for our international friends, and it changes so much country to country it seems. The PC37X here is a really good deal, and one I think many skip over too quickly. Sadly I think it is cheaper for you to do it, as you propose. The PC37X is basically a preassembled version of what you're trying to do. It's based on the 598/599 and they added a mic. I have heard the 2 Senns sound very similar, but I haven't heard both myself. Maybe someone compared them directly and can chime in.


----------



## mbyrnes

fanto88 said:


> can't find PC37X anywhere in Italy and Game One Headset are out of price range and aren't the game one and the 559 basically the same?



Massdrop.com exclusive.


----------



## fanto88

Thanks man for the suggestion. Yep, the real problem is the difference in price. I saw Philips shp9500 or something like that at about 50$,on Italy that headphone is sold for 120€. The game one is 190€, the hd559 is 90€ and I should be able to find a "good" microphone for around 50€ I hope, so for around 140€ I should be good. I will do the Foam mod for the hd559 to make them sound like a hd599.


----------



## ironmonkey27

So just got the AD900x for a really good price, bought them blind as it was such a good deal. 
Not enjoying them straight out of the box with regard to gaming, especially after all the good reports I’ve heard...anyone here with any experience of these cans after a burn in period? 

And on another note - does anyone here run another amp from a creative x7, and if so any thoughts/recommendations?


----------



## mbyrnes

fanto88 said:


> Thanks man for the suggestion. Yep, the real problem is the difference in price. I saw Philips shp9500 or something like that at about 50$,on Italy that headphone is sold for 120€. The game one is 190€, the hd559 is 90€ and I should be able to find a "good" microphone for around 50€ I hope, so for around 140€ I should be good. I will do the Foam mod for the hd559 to make them sound like a hd599.



Glad I could help some! That's a really good setup, and with that jacked up pricing, the best deal as well. Your VAT taxes, and import taxes, can be insanely high. Good luck with a good deal on a mic. Have you checked the used section here? Maybe someone in Europe is selling one. Used can save some money.


----------



## fanto88

I prefer to buy a new one. I just need to understand which one should be good enough for me. I saw that blue snowball ice and Samson meteor are basically on every budget microphone list. Anyone has some suggestion? The price is around 40/50€


----------



## raband

ironmonkey27 said:


> And on another note - does anyone here run another amp from a creative x7, and if so any thoughts/recommendations?



I run the optical into my HDVD800 for my HD800S's
RCA into Stax energizer for my Stax L500's
RCA into the transmitter for my RS185's (Sennheiser wireless)

I wouldn't get another amp though unless you absolutely need it for specific headphones - the X7 is more than capable.
Look into swapping Op/Amps (Sparko or Burson) if you're looking for something more from the unit instead maybe?


----------



## mbyrnes (May 18, 2018)

raband said:


> I run the optical into my HDVD800 for my HD800S's
> RCA into Stax energizer for my Stax L500's
> RCA into the transmitter for my RS185's (Sennheiser wireless)
> 
> ...



I agree completely.

Stock X7 is more than powerful enough for the majority of headphones. You'll improve the X7 more by grabbing Sparkos op amps, and definitely get the full swap. This improves all outputs (headphone, RCA, optical, speakers) because from what I was told from Creative, it effects the DAC as well. I heard a difference and contacted them to find out why. Supposedly an engineer answered (this was a few back and forths).

I also use my LTA MicroZOTL2, which is a tube amp. It's a different sound obviously. I wouldn't bother with a really good SS amp upgrade, unless you already own it, and this will be your main listening rig.

The X7 is really good stock. Sparkos op amps I love to death. I really feel no need to upgrade this setup for music as a SS system at all. I tried a Mimby in the chain for a while, and my MZ2 has 2 inputs. I could switch on the fly, and just listening casually, I couldn't tell a difference. Took the Mimby out, built a 2 channel Schiit system around it (Saga/Vidar).

That's my 2 cents. Before the Sparkos upgrade, honestly, ignorance was bliss. I was super happy. If you're happy, enjoy. You'll always get bigger gains from headphones. Well, until the next great device comes along at a fair price for all.


----------



## Pairzilla

I see a lot of people recommend the HD 700 as the best headphones for gaming. Has anyone had a chance to try the HD 660s yet? If so how do they compare? I was thinking about getting one of those but haven't heard anything about how the 660s sound for gaming. I've been going through a lot of headphones since I found this thread and just can't seem to settle on any. So far the HD 598 sound the best from what I have tried. I recently got the GSP 600 but don't like the closed off sound. Bought the GSP 500 and they seem to sound weaker than the HD 598. I use the GSX 1000 for an amp and the volume sitting at 60 seems to not be enough for the GSP 500 but was fine for the 598. Maybe I don't have it set up right.


----------



## mbyrnes

Pairzilla said:


> I see a lot of people recommend the HD 700 as the best headphones for gaming. Has anyone had a chance to try the HD 660s yet? If so how do they compare? I was thinking about getting one of those but haven't heard anything about how the 660s sound for gaming. I've been going through a lot of headphones since I found this thread and just can't seem to settle on any. So far the HD 598 sound the best from what I have tried. I recently got the GSP 600 but don't like the closed off sound. Bought the GSP 500 and they seem to sound weaker than the HD 598. I use the GSX 1000 for an amp and the volume sitting at 60 seems to not be enough for the GSP 500 but was fine for the 598. Maybe I don't have it set up right.



Well what do you like about the 598 and what are you trying to improve? Best Headphone for gaming is just as hard as trying to get the best headphone for music. HD700 isn't even close to the best, but it probably is one of the better options in it's price range. It really comes down to what the user is looking to achieve, and finding a headphone in that person's price bracket that gets as close as possible.


----------



## lenroot77 (May 20, 2018)

Hd700 is pretty solid for gaming... it’s super duper comfortable. Great sound stage, high level of detail.   The problem with it is it’s price. It doesn’t excell over cheaper headphones for its cost. It’s also extremely finicky with music. (Should you also use it for music). For half it’s price or less there are many options on the first page that will hang right with the hd700. Hd660 is not bad for gaming it’s easier to drive than the other 6xx series headphones, has good treble energy but it’s soundstage holds it back from being a great gaming imo.

I’d say both of those are going to struggle if you plan to continue using the GSX 1000. They may give you the volume you are looking for but probably won’t do them justice.


----------



## raband

Pairzilla said:


> I see a lot of people recommend the HD 700 as the best headphones for gaming. Has anyone had a chance to try the HD 660s yet? If so how do they compare? I was thinking about getting one of those but haven't heard anything about how the 660s sound for gaming. I've been going through a lot of headphones since I found this thread and just can't seem to settle on any. So far the HD 598 sound the best from what I have tried. I recently got the GSP 600 but don't like the closed off sound. Bought the GSP 500 and they seem to sound weaker than the HD 598. I use the GSX 1000 for an amp and the volume sitting at 60 seems to not be enough for the GSP 500 but was fine for the 598. Maybe I don't have it set up right.



Just answered this almost exact question in another thread here

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-gsx-1000-1200-impressions.824923/page-76#post-14252606

_The HD700s are what I usually have connected to my GSX.
I've got HD650's and HD600's but don't use them for gaming.

Haven't tried the 660's though, so can't say for sure.


edit: I'd probably be using my HD598's or PC-37x's before either of the HD6## sets for gaming on the GSX. If the HD660's are closer to the other two 6's then I'd probably keep using the sets you already have rather than switching._


----------



## lenroot77

Wow so the 700’s sound ok on the gsx1000... I’d never guessed that.


----------



## Pairzilla

So planar's are the best choice for fps 7.1 gaming ?


----------



## raband

Pairzilla said:


> So planar's are the best choice for fps 7.1 gaming ?



I have the HD400i's and the LCD2's - both are fine for gaming, but aren't my goto choice.

I do usually throw the HD400i's in my travel bag though and am more than happy to game with them when away from home.


----------



## mysteryfruit

Could someone help me to make a decision between these: k701 (bumps or no bump version?), k702 or k712?
The k701 is 185$
Both k702 and k712 is 245$

Also planning on getting the Creative AE-5.

I'm only gonna use it for gaming, pubg mainly right now. 

I'm currently using sennheiser pc360 from 2012 or something, plugged in my motherboard asus maximus x hero with the SupremeFX_ S1220 codec._
With this current setup i cant seem to hear footsteps good enough, so i have been using this method https://forums.playbattlegrounds.com/topic/15386-how-to-guide-for-windowsgame-audio-compression/ which makes hearing footsteps easier at least. But i would rather have something that works as good out of the box, so i would like to try the AKG's and see. 

And back to my problem, I'm not really sure how much difference there is between these 3 models when it comes to e.g footsteps in FPS games? From what I've read here it seems to me the k701 is best for this? Are the other two noticeably worse for hearing footsteps?

Thanks in advance for any help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Footsteps are almost entirely based on how they're mixed in per GAME. For example one call of duty may have good footstep audio, and another one may have really muted steps. You can't buy headphones based on footsteps, as it is up to the game to mix the sound in enough.

I don't know how PubG does with footsteps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 21, 2018)

Btw RIP to anyone waiting on those Ossic headphones. This is why I'm highly skeptical on stuff like Kickstarters. I've backed a few games that have since released or about to, but I could never sink so much money on a product who is entirely relying on those funds.

I really thought those headphones were being released. Now, millions of dollars gone.


----------



## mysteryfruit

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Footsteps are almost entirely based on how they're mixed in per GAME. For example one call of duty may have good footstep audio, and another one may have really muted steps. You can't buy headphones based on footsteps, as it is up to the game to mix the sound in enough.
> 
> I don't know how PubG does with footsteps.



Thanks for the reply, i guess you're right about that. It might not be that much better from what i already get in pubg right now. 
But i still wanna try something new and it seems like one of these AKGs is the right choice, i would just like to know if you took one game and tested all three of these, how big of a difference would there be in e.g footsteps between them? Is it noticeable at all?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It entirely depends on the frequency of the footsteps. AKG K701 has a peaky upper midrange, so if footsteps are in that register, then they'll be easier to hear. Like I said, it is based entire on the game, and what ranges of frequencies the footsteps are audible in. Now, the K701 is a very detail oriented headphone, so you can rest assured those minute details will sound great off them. They are a more detailed headphone than the Sennheisers. I haven't heard the HD700 so I'm not talking of those, but of the 5xx range.


----------



## fanto88

Guys, you think it's better the V Moda Boom microphone or the Samson Meteor?

I need to buy a microphone for the HD559.
With the V Moda Boom i will get headphone+microphone+adapter for 146€
With the Meteor i will get headphone+microphone+cable for having 3.5mm for 162€

So there is a difference of 16€, not a big deal. So, which one is better of the two microphone?
PS: It's better to buy the cable at 19€(this one https://www.amazon.it/dp/B00UOLLFBI...olid=2MVPIK7J09EJ2&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) or a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adapter is the same thing in term of quality?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 21, 2018)

My Beyerdynamic MMX300 Gaming Headset Review is up over at www.headphone.guru! Please make sure to drop by and give it a read. Lemme know what you think! I had a lot of fun using this headset.

http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-mmx300/

I'll be adding it to the guide today (hopefully, lol). edit: Done.

----------
----------

Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen (*headset*)





Under $300 (as of May 2018)
Where to buy: Amazon


Spoiler:  Review



The full review of the Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen gaming headset can be found over at Headphone.guru. Here's a snippet of the review about its gaming performance:

_Marketed for gamers all over the product page for the MMX300, you better believe it better deliver. The MMX300 is undeniably a very strong gaming headset with fantastic immersive qualities in its bass and soundstage.

The bass faithfully excecutes explosions and other ground shaking impacts with ease. This is one fun gaming headset.

The MMX300 may not be the most detailed headphone in terms of midrange focused sounds, but it is still good and beyond satisfactory here. Unless you are the most hardcore gamer who needs 100% focus on just micro details, I don’t see many complaints here especially for gaming needs.

Treble details is a highlight for nitpicky gamers looking for the sharpest of pindrops, which the MMX300 excels in. There is plenty of sparkle and vibrancy to be found.

The large soundstage paired with its amazing virtual surround capabilities, makes the MMX300 one of the best closed gaming headphones/headsets for accurate positional audio cues that I’ve heard.

The MMX300 can do all forms of gaming well, with a lean towards fun, casual gaming, though is more than capable as a competitive gaming headset. As it is, this is one of those “Multi-purpose” headsets, more than a specialty headset that is focused on one thing or another._






I think the Vmoda BoomPro has a REALLY good microphone. I posted an example on the first page.


----------



## fanto88

Thank you! 
Last 2 question, then:

1) Can someone link a me a youtube video reviewing the V Moda Boom Pro while typing with a mechanical keyboard? I would like to listen how much noise the mic capture
2) Is that adapter good for the HD559? https://www.amazon.it/dp/B0713PNTZ1...olid=2MVPIK7J09EJ2&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


----------



## mindbomb (May 22, 2018)

The trade-off with adding compression to hear footsteps better is that, although it can make them louder, the ability to determine how far away they are becomes reduced. I suppose panning would also end up being more aggressive, so that would reduce imaging quality also.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Well....the rabbit hole has lead me to you all. 

Here’s how I got here. I put together a new PC, abd selected a SoundBlaster AE-5.

My rig wont recognize it in cold boots, ONLY on the subsequent reboot. Super annoying. No word from Creative Support so far. Blah. I might have it for sale shortly. 

So in my quest for a solution, I stumbled across someone asking me why I wanted an internal sound card anyway, that an external DAC and Amp was the way to go. 

For the next few hours I researched Schiit, Fiio, Sennheiser GSX, CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone, etc. etc. 

I know a few things for sure:

1.  I like positional audio in games. 
2.  I like/need closed back headphones. 

With that in mind, for equipment I’m thinking of going with either the 598 closed back w/added mic paired with a Magni 3, or the Game Zero paired with a Magni 3. 

From your descriptions, you like Dolby Headphone over SBX Pro/everything else, correct?

What about the Sennheiser GSX or Razer VSS?

Maybe I get a Sennheiser GSX to pair with my headphones and Magni 3? 

Or grab a Modi Multibit, Magni 3, run the Razer VSS for positional audio and either pair of phones?

I’ve heard the 598s are great for VSS and positional audio...how do the Game Zero compare? 598 little light on bass? Game Zeros?

Any help is appreciated!


----------



## pietcux

ScottieBoysName said:


> Well....the rabbit hole has lead me to you all.
> 
> Here’s how I got here. I put together a new PC, abd selected a SoundBlaster AE-5.
> 
> ...


To get help with the soundblaster card you should go to special hardware forums. Tell them your complete hardware and software configuration and you will receive many advises. Else go get the GSX  and a Sennheiser Game One connect and set it up as the manual says and you have all you need.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

pietcux said:


> To get help with the soundblaster card you should go to special hardware forums. Tell them your complete hardware and software configuration and you will receive many advises. Else go get the GSX  and a Sennheiser Game One connect and set it up as the manual says and you have all you need.




I’ve done that several times (you actually have to get approval on the creative forum which I have yet to receive), which is actually what lead me to here.  Quite a few people suggested that separate VSS is not needed today, plenty of games do that just fine...and that a good DAC, amp and set of cans is all I need.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 22, 2018)

Nah, I think overall SBX is the best virtual surround processing readily available. GSX and Dolby Headphone both have a very slight edge in rear audio cues and off angled sound cues (i.e. 75 degrees front/right, etc), but SBX has the least reverb (even at 100% it's less than GSX at standard room, and DH at DH-2) and thus the less processed sounding. I do think by today's standards GSX is a wonderful choice otherwise. I wouldn't pick Dolby Headphone 2 today, as good as the surround is. GSX is just as good and not as reverb heavy. Unless I'm on a strict budget which I definitely would spend the $45 for a Xonar U3 and a decent pair of cheap headphones like the Creative AUrvana Live.

As far as closed headphones, I don't have many examples and the ones I've currently reviewed while good, aren't as tonally balanced as open headphones that I recommend.

In any case, Razer VSS is not good, IMHO. At least nowhere near as good as the others.

If you JUST game  on PC, I'd pick a GSX1000 and perhaps a Sennheiser Game Zero (having not heard it, but I trust them to have good closed headsets). If you like more immersion, just the GSX1000 and Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd gen is FANTASTIC.

As for people trhat say VSS is not neeed today because games have their own, I call bullsh*t. Every game I've played that has their own "headphone surround" was NOTHING like having your own solution. I swear, they all soun like expanded stereo, which is like a fraction of a fraction of how a proper vss solution sounds. People who say this, are in denial or haven't experienced a proper vss solution. It's night and day.

I think the only game I can think of that has a PROPER solution is overwatch which has Dolby Atmos I believe. I can't say as I have never played OW, but I remember hearing about it. Dolby Atmos is good. I just haven't had extensive testing done with it, and for some reason the license for it on my PC doesn't seem to do anything. (free trial).

I'd take a cheap Xonar U3 with an easy to drive closed headphone over a $1000 audiophile setup that doesn't have VSS. That's how much I believe these people saying you don't need VSS are fiull of crap. Once you go proper VSS for gaming, you'll never go back to simple stereo, unless you're just one of those people that can't adjust to the VSS sound.



ScottieBoysName said:


> Well....the rabbit hole has lead me to you all.
> 
> Here’s how I got here. I put together a new PC, and selected a SoundBlaster AE-5.
> 
> ...


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nah, I think overall SBX is the best virtual surround processing readily available. GSX and Dolby Headphone both have a very slight edge in rear audio cues and off angled sound cues (i.e. 75 degrees front/right, etc), but SBX has the least reverb (even at 100% it's less than GSX at standard room, and DH at DH-2) and thus the less processed sounding. I do think by today's standards GSX is a wonderful choice otherwise. I wouldn't pick Dolby Headphone 2 today, as good as the surround is. GSX is just as good and not as reverb heavy. Unless I'm on a strict budget which I definitely would spend the $45 for a Xonar U3 and a decent pair of cheap headphones like the Creative AUrvana Live.
> 
> As far as closed headphones, I don't have many examples and the ones I've currently reviewed while good, aren't as tonally balanced as open headphones that I recommend.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the awesome reply! Yes, I’ve heard the same things about SBX, and CMSS-3D before that. So, what’s second? Sennheiser GSX? Reverb is what I’m looking to avoid, so it sounds like SBX is my best choice. 

Moving on, have you had a chance to try the new Sennheiser GSP 600? They’re closed back, and it appears the newest thing from Sennheiser. They also, so I’ve been told, are a headphone designed as a gaming headphone from the ground up, and not based off of a 5XX like the Game One/Zero. 

I’m thinking of running a Magni 3 with whatever pair of cans I get. I’ve also toyed with the idea of running a pair of closed 598s, paired with a modmic or something similar. 

How would the 598s compare to the Game One/Zero or GSP 600 in the realm of immersion/VSS/positional audio?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 22, 2018)

If it's not on the guide, I haven't heard it, is the assumption everyone should make.

The only 598s I've heard are the open ones. If you're gonna get an SBX device just get the Creative X7. You don't need a Magni at all. Besides Sennheiser headsets are not hard to drive whatsoever. Just a waste of money looking for anything more powerful than the X7 in that regard.


----------



## raband

ScottieBoysName said:


> Yes, I’ve heard the same things about SBX, and CMSS-3D before that. So, what’s second? Sennheiser GSX? Reverb is what I’m looking to avoid, so it sounds like SBX is my best choice.



This, more than anything else, comes down to individual preference/physical attributes.

For me the GSX gives by far the best VSS I've tried so far (would call it 60-70% effective, with others varying 40-60%)

Am tipping my head/ear shape works best with the GSX's model/algorithms/filters/magic etc (or vice versa)

Many don't seem to have issues with any of the solutions - at that point does the preferences come into it.

I'd have a play with them all as setout in this thread to see which work best for you individually.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterra...nd_virtualization_on/?st=jaudn9g4&sh=5298eeb8


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> just get the Creative X7



Speaking of, did the latest update fix you issue?


----------



## pietcux

raband said:


> This, more than anything else, comes down to individual preference/physical attributes.
> 
> For me the GSX gives by far the best VSS I've tried so far (would call it 60-70% effective, with others varying 40-60%)
> 
> ...



Yes the GSX is the best to me too. Btw, on the GSX you can literally disable the reverb completely. It is so small, t fits into the palm of one's hand, the Z7 is a monster compared to all other solutions, one needs to want that. I have the GSP600 and love it as a gaming headset with the GSX1000.


----------



## raband

Just a quick shoutout to others like me who've mentioned a desire to try and show some support to MLE and give him a bit of encouragement/recognition in continuing to help us save time and money (or in a lot of cases cost us money  )

I just noticed his Patreon is up
https://www.patreon.com/madlustenvy 

His other social links are in his sig too.

Hopefully this post isn't against any forum rules - just wanted to get it out there because I'm sure he'd be the last to bring it up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 22, 2018)

pietcux said:


> Yes the GSX is the best to me too. Btw, on the GSX you can literally disable the reverb completely. It is so small, t fits into the palm of one's hand, the Z7 is a monster compared to all other solutions, one needs to want that. I have the GSP600 and love it as a gaming headset with the GSX1000.



AH yes, you can disable reverb, but then it's like DH-1, or SBX at a low surround number. Instead of it sounding like a room, it sounds like a headphone wih good positional cues. I know that sounds ideal, but I literally mean positional cues immediately around your head. You get rid of reverb, but then it's like all noises are coming from literally around the headphone as opposed to naturally sounding like it's around your body in a room shape. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I prefer something that sounds like it's around you as opposed to just around your head. DH-1, SBX at like 33%, GSX with no + symbols all do positional cues around the head just fine. SBX however does positional cues around  you in a large space better than the others because it expands the soundstage around you without the echoy reverb that GSX, and DH do when you increase room size.

In short, I prefer sound cues that feel like they're coming from some distance from you as opposed to immediately next to you. It ruins immersion for me. SOME reverb is a necessary evil, I believe. Or better do it like SBX. Even at 100%, surround, there's almost nothing in the way of reverb. It's the most natural sounding of any VSS I've heard at length.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 22, 2018)

raband said:


> Speaking of, did the latest update fix you issue?



No. I THINK my issue may have started when I installed HeSuVi and equializer apo/virtual cable. Don't quote me on that.

I have since tried to delete those, but the problem persists. It's weird. I may have to  reset my PC, though it's not so much of a headache to do that just yet.

I thought at one point it was tied to my wireless keyboard and how I use it for volume control, but it doesn't answer as to why I get half volume channels on specific source in the X7 software. Thety always go to 50% while the other channel is at 100, so I just dunno.

Even tried deleting the firmware, software, drivers of the X7. Still does it.


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> AH yes, you can disable reverb, but then it's like DH-1, or SBX at a low surround number.



Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)

I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.

The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)


----------



## pietcux

raband said:


> Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)
> 
> I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.
> 
> The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)


Same here, maybe MLE only tried it on Hesuvi. It could be different from the actual hardware device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

raband said:


> Have you listened to the GSX? (not poking, asking - thought you said the other day you hadn't??)
> 
> I definitely get the "out of head" with the reverb on lowest.
> 
> The other option (front/rear/middle focus) also helps me a lot. (I have it forward)





pietcux said:


> Same here, maybe MLE only tried it on Hesuvi. It could be different from the actual hardware device.



I currently have a GSX1000 at home, lol (I'm wiriting a review/short one on it today/tomorrow). I definitely 100% prefer the way surround sounds with one + compared to the reverbless no + on the display. Like I said, I don't think it sounds natural without the reverb. Not like SBX. No + just reduces soundstage way too much.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I currently have a GSX1000 at home, lol (I'm wiriting a review/short one on it today/tomorrow). I definitely 100% prefer the way surround sounds with one + compared to the reverbless no + on the display. Like I said, I don't think it sounds natural without the reverb. Not like SBX. No + just reduces soundstage way too much.




I'd certainly be interested in your review. If I can't get this AE-5 to work (heading over to the gigabyte forums now) I'm going to probably go with the GSX 1000, along with the GSP 600. 

I'm curious how the GSP 600 compares to the Game One.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its closed vs open so that introduces way too much contrast in sounds presentation.

One good thing I can say about closed headphones is that when they have large soundstage like the MMX300, the virtual surround accuracy and cues may actually be BETTER than on open headphones due to no interference from external noises.

I can at the very least tell you the impressions on the GSX1000 are mainly positive. GSX surround itself is a definite positive.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Its closed vs open so that introduces way too much contrast in sounds presentation.
> 
> One good thing I can say about closed headphones is that when they have large soundstage like the MMX300, the virtual surround accuracy and cues may actually be BETTER than on open headphones due to no interference from external noises.
> 
> I can at the very least tell you the impressions on the GSX1000 are mainly positive. GSX surround itself is a definite positive.



If you were going to suggest a closed headphone for gaming, would it be the MMX300? or at least a good place to start?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ScottieBoysName said:


> If you were going to suggest a closed headphone for gaming, would it be the MMX300? or at least a good place to start?



It really depends on if you prefer bassier headphones and specific frequency curves. The MMX300 is more focused on bass and treble. Midrange is a little spaced back. This may not be to your liking.

I honestly don't have a headphone in the price range that is closed and would suit a balanced headphones needs. I apologize due to the fact that I mainly review open headphones.


----------



## pietcux

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Its closed vs open so that introduces way too much contrast in sounds presentation.
> 
> One good thing I can say about closed headphones is that when they have large soundstage like the MMX300, the virtual surround accuracy and cues may actually be BETTER than on open headphones due to no interference from external noises.
> 
> I can at the very least tell you the impressions on the GSX1000 are mainly positive. GSX surround itself is a definite positive.



Did you ever take the Sony MDR-Z7 into consideration as a closed can for gaming? IMHO it is a great choice. Great bass for immersion, wide soundstage, wider than lots of open cans easy to drive and comfortable like not many others.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It really depends on if you prefer bassier headphones and specific frequency curves. The MMX300 is more focused on bass and treble. Midrange is a little spaced back. This may not be to your liking.
> 
> I honestly don't have a headphone in the price range that is closed and would suit a balanced headphones needs. I apologize due to the fact that I mainly review open headphones.



Not a problem at all! My tastes favor bassier and midrange over screaming treble.


----------



## pietcux

ScottieBoysName said:


> Not a problem at all! My tastes favor bassier and midrange over screaming treble.


You want the Sony Z7.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

pietcux said:


> You want the Sony Z7.



Those look awesome! I think that's a bit out of my price range though. If I was going to spring for something like that, I'd end up getting some HD800s possibly


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pietcux said:


> Did you ever take the Sony MDR-Z7 into consideration as a closed can for gaming? IMHO it is a great choice. Great bass for immersion, wide soundstage, wider than lots of open cans easy to drive and comfortable like not many others.



Nah. I mean I wouldn't be against reviewing them, but I don't give headphones with leather pafp much thought unless a company approaches me to give them a try.



ScottieBoysName said:


> Not a problem at all! My tastes favor bassier and midrange over screaming treble.



While the MMX300 doesn't have screaming treble, it does have some sizzle up top that probably won't suit your preferences.

Perhaps you may wanna give a Beyerdynamic Custom Game a try. Put some DT770 velours for it for a bigger soundstage and I say they're really nice, and you can adjust bass to your preference. I REALLY like them for the price. Its the same as the Custom Pro I reviewed but with a detachable mic cable very much like the Boom Pro. In fact even the Boom Pro fits it.

The review didn't have the impressions of it with the 770 velour pads, but I assure you, it works well. Sounds clearer and more spacious.


----------



## pietcux

ScottieBoysName said:


> Those look awesome! I think that's a bit out of my price range though. If I was going to spring for something like that, I'd end up getting some HD800s possibly


You can have them used for 300$


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nah. I mean I wouldn't be against reviewing them, but I don't give headphones with leather pafp much thought unless a company approaches me to give them a try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Got it! Thank you!


----------



## ScottieBoysName

pietcux said:


> You can have them used for 300$



Gotcha. I'll check them out.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Quick question...anyone bought Dolby Atmos from the Windows store and tried to use that for VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ScottieBoysName said:


> Quick question...anyone bought Dolby Atmos from the Windows store and tried to use that for VSS?


I got the free trial, but turning on spatial and whatever didn't change the sound. Dunno why.


----------



## raband

I did.
Preferred the inbuilt Windows Sonic from what I can remember.

Was only with a couple of games and downloaded movies I had on the lappy though, so probably not with the best media to let it show its strengths.

Was only about $10'ish?/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm here trying it on Destiny 2, and it's 100% not doing anything. It's stereo as stereo comes. This is annoying.


----------



## pietcux

ScottieBoysName said:


> Quick question...anyone bought Dolby Atmos from the Windows store and tried to use that for VSS?


I bought it, it works just fine. But it needs Atmos coded material to really shine. The built in sonic is also quite good. For 5.1 or 7.1 material I prefer the GTX solution  right now.


----------



## pietcux

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm here trying it on Destiny 2, and it's 100% not doing anything. It's stereo as stereo comes. This is annoying.


The Atmos plug in expires after 30 days. The Sonic should work.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Got it. Thanks everyone!


----------



## Fegefeuer

pietcux said:


> Did you ever take the Sony MDR-Z7 into consideration as a closed can for gaming? IMHO it is a great choice. Great bass for immersion, wide soundstage, wider than lots of open cans easy to drive and comfortable like not many others.



Unfortunately wooly bass (distortion, not great control) and not really extending a lot down low, more focussed/bumped in the midbass. Soundstage is rather wide for a closed but not much air to be found, like the GSP 600. 
MLE is used to ultra fast low distortion bass, like Audeze and Fostex. 

Speaking of Audeze. I got a LCD-2C in da house.


----------



## pietcux (May 22, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> Unfortunately wooly bass (distortion, not great control) and not really extending a lot down low, more focussed/bumped in the midbass. Soundstage is rather wide for a closed but not much air to be found, like the GSP 600.
> MLE is used to ultra fast low distortion bass, like Audeze and Fostex.
> 
> Speaking of Audeze. I got a LCD-2C in da house.



You'd better get your mic working! But I am interested in how you like the LCD 2 for sure, as I have the Mobius incoming.
The Sony Z7 and Z1R bass concept is widely misunderstood btw. The subbass is actually received by the skin of the earlobe as physical impact rather than by the eardrum. The HD800 can mimic that too with its large driver but is not tuned to really deliver on that part. Maybe it measures not ideal, but it feels incredible. Real impact instead of measurements. But it takes some time to get that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Well, it's what I was hearing when I was comparing it with cleaner bass like the TH-900, Audezes, also HD800. Owned the Z7 years ago. 

The LCD-2 Classic is almost like the pre-fazor, except it's faster, slightly brighter up top in very few areas and ultimately less "romantic", which kinda is a pity as it would make this headphone stand out a bit more. Yet still it's rather cheap for a LCD-2 and you get the classic Audeze house sound with it's strong technicalities and intimate presentation, just faster, more reactive. It really is made for pop and rock. Put it on and dance away for 599 Dollars or 600 pounds. Bass response is linear as usual but exceptionally clean and very rich in texture/detail. Typical Audeze. It's not like the TH-900 though, that's a different concept of bass "presentation". Mids are beautifull, very clean and generally warm, slightly dipped in the upper registers though. That's where the (almost) linearity stops and takes a downward slope until a few peaks above 7Khz. 

Soundstage is unsurprisingly not something the LCD-2 series shined, especially in width and cohorence (like HD 800). It has pretty good depth though and if you aren't bothered by the HD 650's stage then you'll at least get better depth here while battering it in immersion due to its cleanliness and very potent bass that goes down low. 
Audeze offers a VST plugin called "Reveal" which "corrects" their headphones making them much more linear than the default tuning for the case you might need such a thing. You can use it in your favorite media player that supports plugins or you can even set it up globally through Equalizer APO and activate/deactivate it manually. You could for instance combine Reveal + SBX + EQ.

I still need a mic setup like the SBZ's mic that you can place above your monitor, but I can't find the package right now.


----------



## mindbomb (May 22, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got the free trial, but turning on spatial and whatever didn't change the sound. Dunno why.



It's because dolby atmos for headphones and windows sonic for headphones change the windows speaker configuration to stereo. A lot of applications see this and then refuse to output surround sound for some reason. It's a weird catch 22. I think I said this before, but ironically, the hesuvi version of those DSPs allows you to keep windows as 7.1. So it ends up having greater compatibility than the official versions.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

MLE, saw the review is up for the 2nd generation of the MMX300. 

How is it as a gaming headphone versus the 598 or Game One? In regards to bass, positional cues and directional sounds? VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 25, 2018)

Again closed vs open. They are different. I think I've said enough about them in the review so you understand the differences. Positional/directional cues are amazing on both. MMX300 has better bass immersion but not as strong midrange, and sparklier treble. Soundstage is different because of open vs closed, but the MMX300 is one of those closed headphones with a stellar soundstage. 598/GO obviously have a bigger soundstage due to the open nature.

They aren't comparable. If I had to choose one, I'd choose the MMX300 mainly because they are more engaging for MY needs. If I was 100% about competitive gaming, I'd choose the Game One. I play single player or casual multiplayer games 99% of the time so I prefer the MMX300.

If they were both just headphones, I could say they compliment each other well that having both would make sense. 

I'm not gonna say more on the matter.


----------



## pietcux

Again the typical Beyer sound versus the typical Sennheiser sound.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Again closed vs open. They are different. I think I've said enough about them in the review so you understand the differences. Positional/directional cues are amazing on both. MMX300 has better bass immersion but not as strong midrange, and sparklier treble. Soundstage is different because of open vs closed, but the MMX300 is one of those closed headphones with a stellar soundstage. 598/GO obviously have a bigger soundstage due to the open nature.
> 
> They aren't comparable. If I had to choose one, I'd choose the MMX300 mainly because they are more engaging for MY needs. If I was 100% about competitive gaming, I'd choose the Game One. I play single player or casual multiplayer games 99% of the time so I prefer the MMX300.
> 
> ...



:facepalm:

My fault.  I totally glossed that part again. Thank you so much for all of your help and wisdom! Sidenote - I got my AE-5 working! I had to disable fast boot in W10, not in the bios.


----------



## iAudio365

Hi guys, I know this question has been asked before but any help would be appreciated.

IEM’s for gaming what are the best ones currently in your opinion? I can spend anywhere from 1-2k on a pair, as I say I know this question has been asked before but from my research those are from older threads and websites from as far back as 2014-16 but can not fond anything of substance that’s up to date on 2018 as technology has come a long way and I know there’s a fair few iems out now that are up there with some of the best totl full size headphones.

I game a lot so sound stage and bass is obviously important I also listen to music a lot as well rock, edm, hiphop etc so something that could tick all those boxes would be great.

I already have a hugo 2 as my desktop/portable amp/dac so I’m all set in that department and like I said price really isn’t a major factor as long as they’re good and tick all the boxes above. 

I’ve owned, ether flow, Aeon closed back, focal utopia and hd800s all amazing headphones but I just can’t stand having things on my head anymore for long periods of time and really want to get something much more comfortable and portable. 

If there are any users of IEMs that could give me some advice that would be awesome. Thanks in advance for any help it’s greatly appreciated


----------



## mbyrnes

iAudio365 said:


> Hi guys, I know this question has been asked before but any help would be appreciated.
> 
> IEM’s for gaming what are the best ones currently in your opinion? I can spend anywhere from 1-2k on a pair, as I say I know this question has been asked before but from my research those are from older threads and websites from as far back as 2014-16 but can not fond anything of substance that’s up to date on 2018 as technology has come a long way and I know there’s a fair few iems out now that are up there with some of the best totl full size headphones.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the planar iems yet? Because they're open back, I'd think they might be pretty good for gaming. Monoprice has some at decent prices. Audeze obviously. I love planars for gaming, but don't own iems. Any I do aren't open and I wouldn't game with. Good luck, please post back results!


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## huzidada

Hey guys. 
Lets leave the mic out of it but how does the MMX 300 fair against the DT770 and the DT990. What would be the best bet for both a fun gaming (bass present) and music and vids


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache

Quick query for anyone with a PS4...

So I recently discovered that plugging my earbuds into the PS4 dual shock controller hp jack actually works surprisingly well.  Just Monk + buds but it sounds really good.  I decided i’d Like to give it a try with headphones too so I plugged my FiiO Q1 into the hp jack and tried it with my AKG K240 but for some reason it didn’t seem like the Q1 was providing any power boost over what the jack gave me.  Other sources thru the Q1 gives me lots of volume, but not the jack on the ds controller.  My question is this: is there some peculiarity about the jack on the controller that would prevent it from working with the amp?  Seems to me it should work just like it does with the hp jack on my iPad...


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 31, 2018)

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Quick query for anyone with a PS4...
> 
> So I recently discovered that plugging my earbuds into the PS4 dual shock controller hp jack actually works surprisingly well.  Just Monk + buds but it sounds really good.  I decided i’d Like to give it a try with headphones too so I plugged my FiiO Q1 into the hp jack and tried it with my AKG K240 but for some reason it didn’t seem like the Q1 was providing any power boost over what the jack gave me.  Other sources thru the Q1 gives me lots of volume, but not the jack on the ds controller.  My question is this: is there some peculiarity about the jack on the controller that would prevent it from working with the amp?  Seems to me it should work just like it does with the hp jack on my iPad...



That's because the way power works compared to how volume levels rise. DOUBLE the power only gives you just a few decibel's boost. In many cases, not very noticeable.

You would need an amp many, MANY times more powerful than the headphone jack amp on the controller to notice a real increase. So no, just some little Fiio amp will not do. Power requirements per volume level does not scale linearly.

Also the AKG 240 may not be sensitive enough for the Q1, but I dunno about that.


----------



## Sgt. Ear Ache (Jun 1, 2018)

Well like I said though, with other sources the Q1 is more than powerful enough to drive both the AKGs and my HE400i cans to ear-splitting levels.  That’s with both the USB connection from my laptop or the 3.5 mm headphone jack input.  But with the jack from the ds4 it’s like the amp isn’t really doing anything at all.  And it’s not like the output from the jack on the controller is all that loud on its own even with just the earbuds...i’m not sure what you mean by “some little FiiO amp”. They are designed to provide better amplification for headphones...

Actually, I think i’ve answered my own question.  I suspect it’s just the case that the maximum power output of the jack on the controller is simply lower than the output on my iPad or iPhone7.  The amp just doesn’t have enough to work with there.


----------



## mbyrnes

Sgt. Ear Ache said:


> Well like I said though, with other sources the Q1 is more than powerful enough to drive both the AKGs and my HE400i cans to ear-splitting levels.  That’s with both the USB connection from my laptop or the 3.5 mm headphone jack input.  But with the jack from the ds4 it’s like the amp isn’t really doing anything at all.  And it’s not like the output from the jack on the controller is all that loud on its own even with just the earbuds...i’m not sure what you mean by “some little FiiO amp”. They are designed to provide better amplification for headphones...
> 
> Actually, I think i’ve answered my own question.  I suspect it’s just the case that the maximum power output of the jack on the controller is simply lower than the output on my iPad or iPhone7.  The amp just doesn’t have enough to work with there.



Yep, DS doesn't have a lot of juice to start, so it's amping less to begin with. Nice feature, but really only good for suppe efficient headphones.


----------



## tmaxx123 (Jun 1, 2018)

How is the latest mixamp TR compared to the last gen mixamp Pro? May upgrade if it’s worth it, but Have heard that the TR sounds worse then the last mixamp iteration it replaces.

Still can’t believe that no one else has made an audiophile mixamp device. Astro still has a lock on that market that needs the chat mixer.


----------



## mbyrnes

tmaxx123 said:


> How is the latest mixamp TR compared to the last gen mixamp Pro? May upgrade if it’s worth it, but Have heard that the TR sounds worse then the last mixamp iteration it replaces.
> 
> Still can’t believe that no one else has made an audiophile mixamp device. Astro still has a lock on that market that needs the chat mixer.



Creative Sound Blaster X7

It is an audiophile grade device and it's far better than the Mixamp. There's a long thread here (first post is excellent), them read the last 10 pages I guess to get caught up (more if you are interested and have time of course!).


----------



## raband

+1 on the X7.

Set of sparkos turned up this week.

I swear this forum was made solely to make sure the kids get no inheritence when I go, but will end up with awesome audio.


----------



## mbyrnes

raband said:


> +1 on the X7.
> 
> Set of sparkos turned up this week.
> 
> I swear this forum was made solely to make sure the kids get no inheritence when I go, but will end up with awesome audio.



Can't wait for impressions!


----------



## huzidada

huzidada said:


> Hey guys.
> Lets leave the mic out of it but how does the MMX 300 fair against the DT770 and the DT990. What would be the best bet for both a fun gaming (bass present) and music and vids



BUMP anyone with an answer to this?


----------



## mbyrnes (Jun 1, 2018)

huzidada said:


> BUMP anyone with an answer to this?



Usually check the first post. Here's the man's review https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_152789084533613&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=jhwiowld0101zlp1000MA1nd9u1rf&loc=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-21-2018-beyerdynamic-mmx300-2nd-gen-review.534479/&v=1&out=http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-mmx300/&ref=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-21-2018-beyerdynamic-mmx300-2nd-gen-review.534479/page-2687&title=Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (5/21/2018: Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen Review) | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org&txt=Headphone.guru

MLE is way more thorough than most, has heard just about every Beyerdynamic discussed in this thread. Hopefully that helps.


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> +1 on the X7.
> 
> Set of sparkos turned up this week.
> 
> I swear this forum was made solely to make sure the kids get no inheritence when I go, but will end up with awesome audio.


Hope you like them!


----------



## mbyrnes

raband said:


> +1 on the X7.
> 
> Set of sparkos turned up this week.
> 
> I swear this forum was made solely to make sure the kids get no inheritence when I go, but will end up with awesome audio.



I've told my parents numerous times. Outside of a few heirlooms, spend it ALL! Life is hard enough, and as you age, that's the time to enjoy it. I'd rather have kick ass audio gear handed down than money. At least I'd know my Dad enjoyed himself (he's an audio nut himself). Most waste money given to them. YOU should enjoy your hard earned money!


----------



## DasGouche

Here is the direct quote I got from Astro about the stream out port on the MixAmp Pro TR



> Hey DasGouche*,*
> 
> You could use the stream output as a secondary headphone port, and it would contain Dolby processing if it is switched on. You would need to adjust the settings through the ASTRO Command Center, so the stream output only includes game audio, and the volume has been set at a recommended level which is acceptable by the amplifier. It's possible you may encounter a buzzing which might be removable by using a ground loop isolator, and the microphone will not work.



While I’m sure the X7 is probably a more elegant solution. Seems like we could use the MixAmp as the dac/dsp and use something like a Magni 3 or other amp. I am still fairly new to this so I don’t know if others have tried this with poor results and that is why people just double amp the MixAmp. It is about half the cost of the X7 if this solution worked. Is the dsp of the X7 that much better? I am still testing out headphones in the 200-300 range which would be used just for gaming. Any thoughts are much appreciated.


----------



## mbyrnes

The problem is the Mixamp is noisy, and has a crap amp. You'll have to max the volume out, which will not be a standard 2V output, so whatever amp you connect to the Mixamp, will not have the power output it says (all numbers of amps are based on 2V). 

Also the Mixamp is really only good for VSS. It sucks for music, unless they all the sudden improved this drastically (hahaha). Mixamp+Magni isn't even close to the X7. 

If you have a Mixamp and it works for you, great, don't worry about it. If I was buying new today, I'd invest the extra money for the X7. May make sense to wait for E3, in case something is announced. I had issues driving some headphones with the X7 and original Magni. These werent exactly hard to drive either (K702 Annie's). X7 to me is more future proof, as it would drive most headphones without issue at all. 

Sometimes it's hard to gauge interest in something until you try it. Dipping your toe (cheapest option) is for many the default choice, which makes sense. X7 is just a lot more versatile, and an end game setup for many. The Mixamp will leave many wanting more after a while if you're serious into audio. That's my 2 cents anyway.


----------



## DasGouche (Jun 2, 2018)

mbyrnes said:


> The problem is the Mixamp is noisy, and has a crap amp. You'll have to max the volume out, which will not be a standard 2V output, so whatever amp you connect to the Mixamp, will not have the power output it says (all numbers of amps are based on 2V).
> 
> Also the Mixamp is really only good for VSS. It sucks for music, unless they all the sudden improved this drastically (hahaha). Mixamp+Magni isn't even close to the X7.
> 
> ...



I read their response as the stream out did not amplify the signal since it is intended to go into broadcasting program like OBS. Is my understanding of that incorrect? I am still trying to navigate my way through all of this so I apologize if I sound uneducated. I have both the Xbox one X and the PS4 Pro. With the Xbox, I have the Dolby Atmos for headphones enabled so I can use any DAC/AMP solution, correct? It is the PS4 that is problematic. I guess in just put extra cash upfront will save me headaches down the road.

Either way, I guess the X7 will be a better solution for either console since I can just turn off SBX if I enjoy Atmos more


----------



## tmaxx123

I have the mixamp pro (non tr) and a HRT iStreamer dac running to the mp3 port of the mixamp. The mixamp outputs to a SubPac s2 and then terminates at my ath-a900x. 
I had a Fiio e12 but didn’t think it was a worthy addition for my setup.


Sounds and feels great. 

And I’m always gaming with a party of people so the second chat mixer knob is crucial on the mixamp. The sound blaster x7 doesn’t seem to have that capability, unless you use the software? Maybe e3 they will announce something new!?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmaxx123 said:


> I have the mixamp pro (non tr) and a HRT iStreamer dac running to the mp3 port of the mixamp. The mixamp outputs to a SubPac s2 and then terminates at my ath-a900x.
> I had a Fiio e12 but didn’t think it was a worthy addition for my setup.
> 
> 
> ...



You can you a phone app if you don't feel like being tethered to a PC for X7 controls. Yes, I prefer the physical controls for all these things, but the X7 does have every option necessary.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 2, 2018)

*Well guys, here's the GSX 1000 review. Let me know what you think. Any spelling/grammar mistakes are likely, so please give me a heads up. I'm blind to these things, and I write it all on the basic windows notepad.

Sennheiser GSX 1000*





Under $230 (as of June 2018)
Where to buy: Amazon

*Audiophile PC Gaming Made Easy*



Spoiler: Review



Note: This review was done with various headphones/headsets, no speakers. Unfortunately, I don't have external speakers to test those capabilities out. I apologize.

Sennheiser's GSX 1000 Audio Amplifier for PC and Mac. Entering a quite crowded market of PC-centric audio devices is never an easy feat for any company. Whether gaming oriented, audiophile oriented, or anything in between, these (essentially) external soundcard replacements need something incredible to stick out. The GSX 1000 sticks out to me in a few meaningful ways. Depending on who you ask, some may be good or bad.



*Build:*

Th GSX 1000 looks like what can only be described as simplistic looking black square (though it's not as simple as it appears). It isn't much larger than a drink coaster, and is quite lightweight without it feeling flimsy. The GSX 1000 is relatively small for a dac/amp, but it feels substantial enough to not warrant alarm on its general ruggedness. It's a handsome little device dressed in matte black plastic, save for a glossy black concave ring that serves as the perimeter of the central volume dial. The tiny gap between the dial and the black housing serves as the space illuminated by red, letting you know the device is on. Before going in depth about the main face area of the GSX 1000, I'll talk about the simple stuff.

On the front side of the GSX 1000 is just a plain white Sennheiser logo. The left side has nothing. The right side has a small microphone volume wheel which adjusts your outgoing mic level. The backside of the GSX 1000 has your inputs and outputs. You simply have the micro usb input for powering your GSX 1000 as well as it being your lone source input. Next to it are the speaker out, microphone input, and headphone input. That's it for your I/O. The bottom of the GSX 1000 has a long horizontal strip or rubber as your sole 'foot' towards the front. Towards the back is a 'bay' with a Sennheiser Logo that when opened reveals some of the product information, as well as the bay itself doubling as a kickstand, which elevates the GSX 1000 enough to make adjusting your volume/settings easier and making them more legible as opposed to just leaving the device flat.

Going back to the main face, surrounding the volume knob, each corner of the GSX 1000's front face holds a small, horizontal, slim button that illuminates red when the device is being adjusted physically. These 4 buttons are where you save your GSX 1000 settings. By hovering/pressing your finger against one for a few seconds, it will lock in your settings for that button. For example having the upper left button/preset with 7.1 surround, loud mic monitoring, speaker input, and then having the bottom right button/preset with 2.0 basic stereo, no mic monitoring, and the music EQ preset. You essentially have 4 manually saved presets. I personally use two: one for gaming, one for everything else. I could see myself adding one more preset specific to multiplayer gaming with mic monitoring.

When holding down to lock in your chosen preset, there will be a 'thump' noise on your headphone/speakers letting you know it's saved, as well as the volume level on the center screen will flicker white a few times. When selecting one of these 4 buttons/presets, the chosen one will be lit in white, while the others remain red.

Moving on to the volume dial, the dial itself is matte silver, though the center is a shiny black that unfortunately can and will pick up any and all micro scratches and abrasions. This area is where the main digital interface of the GSX 1000 is. When off, it looks like nothing is there, but while the GSX 1000 is on, the volume level is displayed at the center. With barely a finger's touch, the other touch sensitive options are revealed and illuminate on the face of the volume knob around the volume level.

Upper left: Horn icon. Switch between sound systems. When pressed, it switches between Headset icon, and speaker icon. Pretty self explanatory, you choose between piping your audio to the headphone out, or the speaker out.

Upper right: EQ bars. Equalizer Settings: This changes between various equalizer presets. OFF, Music, Story, Esports. I will explain these in depth in the 'Sound' section.

Bottom Left: Headset icon with curving arrow. Sidetone level. It adjusts the volume level of your headset's microphone volume monitoring. The more (+) symbols, the louder you can hear your own voice through the headset/speakers. This does not affect how others hear you.

Bottom Right: ((O)) on screen. Sound Mode. This changes between 2.0 or 7.1 surround. 2.0 is Basic Stereo, no surround processing. 7.1 uses Sennheiser's GSX surround processing. Setting this to 7.1 will reveal two extra icons on the display as noted next.

Center Left: Squiggly Lines icon. Reverb (Environment). This adjusts the 7.1. surround sound level. No symbols is 'Neutral'/small room size, least amount of reverb. One (+) is 'Confined Space'/medium room size and some reverb, Three (+) symbols means 'Open World'/large room size with the most reverb. I will go a bit more in depth in the 'Sound' section.

Center Right: Person icon. Surround Amplification. With no arrows, surround sound is default with no emphasis on either front or rear audio cues. Arrow pointing up means rear audio cues are emphasized. Arrow pointing down means front audio cues are emphasized.

That's about it for the GSX 1000. It at first appears very barren of I/O, options, and general versatility, but after messing about with its settings, I feel the GSX 1000 makes for a perfect little device for the heavy PC user.



*Accessories:*

Simplicity is the name of the game here. The GSX 1000 simply comes with a small, red micro usb cable. That. Is. It. That is all you will need, really. Desktop speakers should already bring their own audio cable, and headset/microphones are also self-reliant on cabling.



*Ease of Use:*

The GSX 1000 is a great example of plug and play. You simply hook up a USB cable, go to your computer's sound device settings, find the GSX 1000 Main Audio, go to the sound control panel, configure speakers to 7.1, then go to Properties, then Advanced and set the Default Format to 16bit/48khz unless you're fine with 16/44. You can set to 24bit/96khz when configuring speakers to just 2 channel in Windows, but then you lose the proper GSX 7.1 surround emulation. I recommend only doing this if you absolutely know you will never use the GSX surround features on the GSX 1000, which at that point I'd question why you are using the GSX 1000 in the first place, when a regular dac/amp would've suited those needs better. Anyways, that's all you have to do on the PC side. Everything else will be adjusted on the device itself. So absolutely no software to download, no drivers to configure, it's all on the device.

My only gripes are that the device is super touch sensitive and you may accidentally toggle a setting you didn't mean to simply when doing something as simple as adjusting the volume. The 4 preset buttons also tend to be super easy to press even when you don't want to, so you may end up accidentally switching presets or overwriting one by accident. I only wish Sennheiser made the touch sensitivity a little less sensitive to perhaps stop this from happening as much. Barely hovering a finger over something may trigger it.

You can even choose between using a keyboard volume controls, windows volume control, or the GSX 1000's volume dial. They all behave the same way. Whatever is easiest. For me, since I use my PC on a TV, the GSX is out of my reach, so I prefer adjusting my volume with my wireless keyboard. When adjusting, the GSX display's volume setting will display my volume level changes.

Asides from from the touch sensitive quirks, the GSX 1000 is very intuitive and simple to use, once you know what all the settings do.

I do wish the device auto switched to 24 bit/96khz whenever you switch to 2.0 stereo.



*Sound:*

The GSX 1000 doesn't have much in the way of inputs, and can only function for PC/MAC use. Thankfully there is a lot to love here despite it's lack of connectivity and versatility. Sound is one of them. I won't go much into its sound characteristics as I feel any decent solid state amp/dac should be fairly linear and neutral in tone, which the GSX 1000 is. I can't ask much more than that other than for it to be free of background noise and hiss, which it also is. What's left to look into are what the GSX 1000 brings to the table outside of these simple necessities in sound.

I'll begin with specific settings and how they affect the sound...



*EQ presets: *

The GSX 1000 comes with 4 EQ presets: OFF (No icon), Music (Note icon), Story (film clapperboard icon), Esports (Crosshair icon). Pinpointing the changes by ear isn't the easiest task because compared to the OFF setting, the rest seem to have a baseline volume boost, even in ranges of frequencies not being boosted by EQ. They're just 'louder', and thus it's harder to pinpoint the differences between OFF and the other presets aside from the obvious big bumps in changes.

No icon = untouched/neutral/flat tonal balance.

Music = Moderate boost from the lowest bass up to around 200hz where it starts leveling off. 4khz and above seem to be raised noticeably compared to off, so I'd label the Music setting as obviously being bass and wide range treble boosted. Likely ideal for n frequency shaped headphones that lack bass and upper range detail.

Story =  Like the Music preset, bass levels are boosted up to around 200hz where it levels off. Unlike the Music Preset, upper detail changes don't really start happening again until 8khz, where there is definite emphasis past this point. I'd say the Story preset is bass and treble oriented, with a more target treble emphasis up top, as opposed to the the broad range emphasis in the Music preset. I'd say that of the two, I'd consider the Story preset a more subtle bass and treble preset likely beneficial for linear headphones with treble roll off.

Esports = This preset more or less is like an Audio-Technica AD-700 in preset form. It de-emphasizes the bass ranges by a considerable amount until it starts leveling off and meeting the OFF preset at about 800hz. Past that, it does the reverse, and starts emphasizing and boosting frequencies past 900hz more and more all the way to the end of audible treble. This preset is heavily detail oriented, and would obviously benefit detail deficient headphones like many overly bassy headphones, or budget headphones not worth giving a stink about. Use this one for your 'not so good' pair of headphones.

Personally I'm of the mindset of don't fix what ain't broken, and thus I don't ever EQ my headphones unless they have a particularly noteworthy flaw. Even then, I consider most flaws part of the particular headphone's experience and so I tend to leave them as is. At the most, I may boost the bass on something that is inherently lacking, but that's as far as I go.



*Surround Amplification:*

As mentioned before, this can boost the volume levels of either front or rear audio cues in 7.1 surround mode. Personally, I prefer leaving this with no arrows so all manner of audio cues are at an balanced volume level regardless of direction. If you feel you need to focus on front or back sounds, this may be helpful to you otherwise. The volume difference when using these settings are pretty significant.



Reverb (Environment)/GSX Surround:

This is the'room' size for GSX surround.

Neutral/No '+' symbols: This has the least amount of reverb, and personally feels like surround sound cues are pretty close to the head. The most anal of audiophile purists who hate any kind of sound processing may want to start here, as this is the closest thing to a "headphone experience with surround cues" as it gets without sounding more like speakers in a room type processing.

Confined Space/One '+' symbol: I consider this the standard 'room' size. It has some reverb which aid in a broader sense of space, at the expense of making headphones sound less like headphones and more like listening to a room surrounded on all sides with speakers. The soundstage is noticeably expanded, and you can really get a sense of sounds coming from all around you, as opposed to just outside your headphone space. This is my preferred setting when gaming. Yes, the reverb may not be for everyone, but I consider it a worthy sacrifice for the amazing surround emulation that GSX Surround provides with this setting. The positional cues on this setting are nothing short of stellar. You get a real sense of things being around you, and even rear cues really sound like things are behind you. I'm a true believer.

Open World/Three '+' symbols: This is the 'large' room size. This is the polar opposite of the Neutral setting. It drastically enhaces soundstage in comparison, but really adds a significant amount of reverb. Positional accuracy is just as good as the Confined Space setting, but the reverb is personally a bit too much for me to compromise. Fun to test out, but I don't personally see people using this setting on a regular basis.

Of the three presets, I really believe most people used to virtual surround processors will choose the Confined Space/One '+' symbol setting. It's the closest thing to the widely known and used Dolby Headphone 2, but with less reverb and just as amazing surround properties. You can't lose here.

Of the main headphone surround technologies like Dolby Headphone and Creative's SBX, I found Sennheiser's GSX surround swinging for the fences. All three techs have their pros and cons, but I feel GSX surround has the best compromises of the three. Dolby Headphone is essentially made obsolete by GSX, and SBX, while better at having surround processing without reverb even at 100% surround (largest room size), doesn't quite reach the same level of rear audio precision as GSX. If reverb is a concern, I'd say go for SBX, otherwise, GSX is the king here. Dolby Headphone still works wonders, but has the most compromises between its warmer tonality, and reverb. I don't mention Razer Surround, Dolby Atmos, and other known surround techs due to minimal experience with those.



*Amping:*

The GSX 1000 is somewhat average on power in terms of amplification. To put things in perspective, I have a Hifiman HE-400 planarmagnetic at home as my main headphone. It isn't exactly a hard planar to drive, yet I have to max the volume out on the GSX 1000 to get the volume to a moderately loud volume. Moderately loud is right where I like it, so it's fine, but that means there's absolutely no headroom to play with here. On my Sennheiser Game One ( a relatively easy to drive dynamic headset), there is much more volume to play with.

In terms of adding an amp to the chain, I didn't have great luck with the Creative X7, as it hissed and had just way too much noise/distortion. Perhaps with an all analog amplifier, the double amping to retain GSX surround with a more powerful amp may work just fine. Unfortunately, the only amp I have at home is the Creative X7 which has too many digital components which may be the reason it clashed with the GSX 1000. I've been told by friends with the GSX 1000 that double amping sounds fine with normal amps, and I'm inclined to believe them.



*Microphone:*

Having tested the GSX 1000 with the Sennheiser Game One to test for mic audio capabilities, I found absolutely nothing to complain about. Mic quality is fantastic, no weird hiss or distortions, and the optional mic monitoring on the GSX 1000 makes it easy to know if you're talking too loud, etc. Here is a stock/default example of the recording capabilities:





*Personal Recommendations:*

Not much I can say except if you are mainly all about PC gaming, and do most audio related things on PC, the GSX 1000 may be the device for you. It is absolutely amazing for gaming in virtual surround.

For music and/or stereo based content, it provides a very clean sound with a bevy of settings to play with if you choose. If you are using relatively easy to drive headphones, the GSX 1000 is an attractive option.



*Comparisons:*

As far as devices that I have on hand that may be somewhat similar, I have an Asus Xonar U3 as a budget option, and the Creative X7LE as the higher end option.

Asus Xonar U3: The Asus Xonar U3 is a neat little device that can actually do slightly more with other devices than the GSX 1000 for a fraction of the price. It has a fairly weak internal amp, which may be its main shortcoming. However, it has an optical out that can feed Dolby Headphone to a better DAC, or amp with its line out. Unlike the GSX 1000, everything is done in its PC software. If you're fine with Dolby Headphone which isn't far behind GSX Surround, this may be a really great, cheap alternative. However, I feel the GSX 1000's suite of tools and better surround processing is a better device for more serious gamers who just want one device for their PC.

Creative X7: The X7 is the option for those that want absolutely everything in one package. Audiophile dac, with strong amp, all the options such as SBX headphone surround, eq presets, bluetooth, mic settings, line out, optical out, digital and analog inputs, controls via software, app, OR on the device itself, and much more. It simply has all you can ever possibly need for most headphones. It isn't without its quirks, but overall, this is a device other companies need to look at and attempt to compete with in the higher end gaming space. It however is a fairly complicated device as opposed to the single cable GSX 1000. If you need something for all your gaming sources like consoles, definitely look into the X7. For PC user mainly, the GSX 1000 may be a better fit.


*Likes and Dislikes*

Pros:

Simple setup
GSX Surround
The volume dial
Nice, easy to understand options
Mic monitoring
Transportability
Cons:

Overly sensitive touch interface
Amping could be just a tad bit stronger for a broader selection option of headphone compatibility
PC only device/lack of versatility


*Final Impressions:*

I really, really like the GSX 1000. It may lack in versatility for my needs which are beyond the scope of the GSX 1000's capabilities, mainly in more inputs for things outside of the PC, and a need for a more powerful amp, but even with those shortcomings, I can't help but be enamored by the painless simplicity of the GSX 1000. It is very user friendly, and the surround processing works as good as any other I've ever used (if not outright better).

The GSX1000 makes me feel like selling all the things I have, using this for PC with a Sennheiser Game One and calling it a day. As simple as it gets. Now, I hope we see a Creative X7 level device from Sennheiser. I think if anyone could make a big winner, it's 100% Sennheiser. Even as it stands, I prefer the simple solution of just attaching one cable to this device, as opposed to the rat's nest of cables behind the Creative X7.


----------



## Pairzilla

I want to add the o2 to my gsx 1000. Do I need to get the dac/amp version or just the amp version.? The dac/amp is 279 and the amp is 129 I believe.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 3, 2018)

Well, you'll be double amping, and I don't particularly like doing that for anything but gaming. I would use the dac portion of the O2 when not gaming, and using the GSX with the O2 when gaming.


----------



## Pairzilla

Ok well I'm glad I asked. I didn't know of the possible issue. Ive seen you mention before that it's possible to add to the GSX. Maybe the O2 isn't the best choice ? Do you have any recommendations that might compliment the GSX better?


----------



## pietcux

raband said:


> +1 on the X7.
> 
> Set of sparkos turned up this week.
> 
> I swear this forum was made solely to make sure the kids get no inheritence when I go, but will end up with awesome audio.


So you have the ORPHEUS 2 on order, just for gaming?


----------



## pietcux (Jun 3, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Well guys, here's the GSX 1000 review. Let me know what you think. Any spelling/grammar mistakes are likely, so please give me a heads up. I'm blind to these things, and I write it all on the basic windows notepad.
> 
> Sennheiser GSX 1000*
> 
> ...



Great review @Mad Lust Envy, it mirrors my experience. I am a PC only gamer, so it is all I need. The GSX can be double amped with fantastic results. I use it with my Sennheiser HDVA600 when I want to use the HD800 for solo gaming. For teamplay I use the GSP600 straight out of the GSX1000.


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy great review, as always.
I'd wager that most side effects of double amping could be remedied by plugging an IEMatch inbetween the GSX and an external amp


----------



## huzidada

mbyrnes said:


> Usually check the first post. Here's the man's review https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_152789084533613&key=1e99669452acedd7650a94861c9354cb&libId=jhwiowld0101zlp1000MA1nd9u1rf&loc=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-21-2018-beyerdynamic-mmx300-2nd-gen-review.534479/&v=1&out=http://headphone.guru/beyerdynamic-mmx300/&ref=https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-5-21-2018-beyerdynamic-mmx300-2nd-gen-review.534479/page-2687&title=Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: (5/21/2018: Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen Review) | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org&txt=Headphone.guru
> 
> MLE is way more thorough than most, has heard just about every Beyerdynamic discussed in this thread. Hopefully that helps.



Oh definitly agree with you..but for someone that has listened to both I was wondering from the man himself which he would pick for gaming as Im in the predicament. And need some bass (not like my Game Ones) as it makes ganing sound fun as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 4, 2018)

I'm pretty sure my double amping problems with the GSX and X7 are entirely due to the X7's amp still being somewhat digitally connected to its other components, as opposed to basic/discrete analog amps. The X7 in this case is the problem, not the GSX. I know this because the X7 volume knob is completely digital in nature as well. Too many unnecesssary internals in the way just to amp another source. That or I may need to change to another outlet.


----------



## Sennheiser

ScottieBoysName said:


> ...
> Moving on, have you had a chance to try the new Sennheiser GSP 600? They’re closed back, and it appears the newest thing from Sennheiser. They also, so I’ve been told, are a headphone designed as a gaming headphone from the ground up, and not based off of a 5XX like the Game One/Zero.
> 
> ...
> ...



The Sennheiser GSP 600 is indeed the newest thing! Along with the GSP 500, these new headsets were designed for gamers and marathon sessions. The GSP 600 is sonically upgraded in quality over the Game Zero, as well as having more sub bass extension so that those ambient environment, explosive, or big sounds will shine properly alongside your normal footsteps, dialogue, and SFX. The GSP 600 also features hybrid pads, with a soft suede like cloth touching your face while still having sealed sides in leatherette, and a unique headband design which allows you to customize the caliper pressure (clamp). If you have a VR headset, such as the PlayStation VR, the GSP headband should fit over the plastic “halo ring” of the head mounted display.

The GSP 600 & 500 also are easy-to-amplify and include a cable for use in console controllers and another PC cable which is perfect for longer distances or connecting to the GSX 1000 gaming audio amplifier. The GSX 1000, with it’s Sennheiser Binaural Rendering Engine, produces superb 7.1 surround sound with the GSP 600, with adjustable reverb and room size but always distinct directional imaging.

The HD 598 feature a more “classical” and “airy” sound signature, while the GSP 600 will have a more solid, grounded but fun signature. The GSP 600 is also a closed headphone, offering a more intimate sound with less noise leaking in or out of the earcups.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!


----------



## Sennheiser

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Well guys, here's the GSX 1000 review. Let me know what you think. Any spelling/grammar mistakes are likely, so please give me a heads up. I'm blind to these things, and I write it all on the basic windows notepad.
> 
> Sennheiser GSX 1000*
> 
> ...




Fantastic and detailed review, Mad Lust Envy, thank you! Your contributions are incredible... the first post to this thread is quite possibly the longest post on Head-Fi!


----------



## twocentsear

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Well guys, here's the GSX 1000 review. Let me know what you think. Any spelling/grammar mistakes are likely, so please give me a heads up. I'm blind to these things, and I write it all on the basic windows notepad.
> 
> Sennheiser GSX 1000*
> 
> ...



Since it has Speaker-outs, can't you just run that with a 3.5 to dual rca and on to an amp and still get 7.1 surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 4, 2018)

No. The X7 is one of the only devices to have an option for Headphone surround through the speaker out. The GSX is not one of these rare devices that does that. Speaker out = basic stereo.


----------



## Yethal

@Sennheiser Is this something that could be added in a firmware update to allow for easier stacking with more powerful gear?


----------



## Tohex

Yethal said:


> @Sennheiser Is this something that could be added in a firmware update to allow for easier stacking with more powerful gear?



Wouldn't that be phenomenal if they could? It's so close to being the perfect unit already; that would tip it over the line of many people I'm sure.

Alternatively, I wondered if someone could open it and mod the PCB so that the line out of the 7.1 is taken straight the speaker out. I don't know enough about the intricacies of the line levels etc but I'd consider modding if it worked.

All in all though people seem to think they can double amp just fine (for the most part).


----------



## pietcux

Tohex said:


> Wouldn't that be phenomenal if they could? It's so close to being the perfect unit already; that would tip it over the line of many people I'm sure.
> 
> Alternatively, I wondered if someone could open it and mod the PCB so that the line out of the 7.1 is taken straight the speaker out. I don't know enough about the intricacies of the line levels etc but I'd consider modding if it worked.
> 
> All in all though people seem to think they can double amp just fine (for the most part).


Why not use the headphone out? It works like charm.


----------



## Jovialgent

Hi im new to the scene and I already did some research.
I'm looking for a new headset since my sennheiser pc 350 broke and I've bought a new sennheiser game one , beyerdynamic 770 pro but I didnt like them both.

My motherboard Gigabyte Z270X-Ultra gaming so I got an onboard soundcard.

Now my question is for about 250 euro's, I live in Europe what should I invest in ?
I really can't narrow down what to buy. I prefer a mic on my headphone but if the combo mic / headphone is decent I'm willing to consider it too.


----------



## pietcux

Jovialgent said:


> Hi im new to the scene and I already did some research.
> I'm looking for a new headset since my sennheiser pc 350 broke and I've bought a new sennheiser game one , beyerdynamic 770 pro but I didnt like them both.
> 
> My motherboard Gigabyte Z270X-Ultra gaming so I got an onboard soundcard.
> ...


What didn't you like on the two aforementioned cans?


----------



## Jovialgent

pietcux said:


> What didn't you like on the two aforementioned cans?


It felt like it was not a real big upgrade compared to my PC 350. The game one was not comfortable for me and the 770 dno I didn't like it because I prefer microphone attached.


----------



## thewind32

Jovialgent said:


> It felt like it was not a real big upgrade compared to my PC 350. The game one was not comfortable for me and the 770 dno I didn't like it because I prefer microphone attached.



If mic was the only issue you have with the 770, you could consider something like the modmic or minimic.


----------



## pietcux

Jovialgent said:


> It felt like it was not a real big upgrade compared to my PC 350. The game one was not comfortable for me and the 770 dno I didn't like it because I prefer microphone attached.


You might want to try the new GSP 500 (open back) or GSP 600 (closed back). Have the latter on my skull right now. It is a clear upgrade if it fits your head.


----------



## Jovialgent

pietcux said:


> You might want to try the new GSP 500 (open back) or GSP 600 (closed back). Have the latter on my skull right now. It is a clear upgrade if it fits your head.


Ive got a big head and wear glasses dunno if it fits well. Is the sound quality much better than for example hyper x cloud II , game one & 770 ?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yethal said:


> @Sennheiser Is this something that could be added in a firmware update to allow for easier stacking with more powerful gear?



Would be much better than right now but still too much for the price given the mediocre analog path. Value would improve if it had an optical out and we could grab GSX from there. It's probably something for the successor.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> Would be much better than right now but still too much for the price given the mediocre analog path. Value would improve if it had an optical out and we could grab GSX from there. It's probably something for the successor.


Or if it didn't have analog outs at all, just s/pdif. And cost $150 less


----------



## pietcux

Yethal said:


> Or if it didn't have analog outs at all, just s/pdif. And cost $150 less


Then I would not own it at all.


----------



## mindbomb

I have an asus xonar dgx that can do dolby headphone over spdif, and those are like $20 used. Even with that though, I feel somewhat limited with dac choice, since getting ones with good spdif performance is tough.

Imo, what sennheiser should do is sell a software version of the binaural rendering engine, complete with equalization for a bunch of different Sennheiser headphones. This way, people can choose whatever usb dac and headphone amp they want.


----------



## BrightCandle

mindbomb said:


> Imo, what sennheiser should do is sell a software version of the binaural rendering engine, complete with equalization for a bunch of different Sennheiser headphones. This way, people can choose whatever usb dac and headphone amp they want.



It isn't an insignificant cost to develop a virtual windows sound driver that can output to anything but I also tend to agree it would be really good because it would also make evaluating and comparing them a lot easier. There might be some latency involve though, I can see why they would prefer dedicated DSP hardware so that the latency is minimised especially if it depends on high quality processing.

We get the products we get so for now at least we have to make that trade off.


----------



## KewlMunky

Interesting little device. I'd certainly like to give it a try, but I wish I could use it just for the DSP and then have it feed my DAC. I'd hate to have to switch around my setup between gaming and music. 

You also mention that Dolby Headphone isn't far behind GSX Surround. To be honest, Dolby Headphone didn't impress me at all. I always feel extremely underwhelmed by every digital surround sound attempt.

Would be nice if they had their software for the DSP available for download; offer a free limited time trial, and then one could purchase it. Having the little box there for adjustment mid game without having to tab out of my game is nice, but I really don't need the amp section, nor do I want to leave my DAC sitting on the sidelines.


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, most likely a lot of this stuff is getting considered for the next release, plus we have the Evshrugist onboard the Sennheiser train.


----------



## Rozzko

Why no one can make new version of X7? Senhaiser made it but only on PC use. Where console device same level?


----------



## twocentsear

How does the Beyer T1 2nd gen compare to the K702 in terms of competitive gaming?


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Well guys, here's the GSX 1000 review. Let me know what you think. Any spelling/grammar mistakes are likely, so please give me a heads up. I'm blind to these things, and I write it all on the basic windows notepad.
> 
> Sennheiser GSX 1000*
> 
> ...



For the life of me I want this to work with consoles . I know its not intended at all for that, just would be super awesome if it could. I have heard gushing reviews from everyone who has spent time with it. 

I got a little taste of it on PC and I was impressed. Just want to use it for PUBG and xbox one ha


----------



## AxelCloris

MTMECraig said:


> For the life of me I want this to work with consoles . I know its not intended at all for that, just would be super awesome if it could. I have heard gushing reviews from everyone who has spent time with it.
> 
> I got a little taste of it on PC and I was impressed. Just want to use it for PUBG and xbox one ha


Today's consoles are just a locked down PCs, so a PC could also be a console! Welcome to the wonderful world of PC gaming, MTMECraig!


----------



## pietcux

AxelCloris said:


> Today's consoles are just a locked down PCs, so a PC could also be a console! Welcome to the wonderful world of PC gaming, MTMECraig!


But there are sevreal console only title like the Last of Us...Red Dead Redemption and more...


----------



## AxelCloris

There will always be exclusives in this industry.


----------



## twocentsear

AxelCloris said:


> There will always be exclusives in this industry.


Doesn't change the fact that you can't use the current iteration of the GSX 1000 for consoles. I mean, Dad of Boi-I mean, God of War is pretty awesome.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm with you. I'd love, love, love a GSX device to replace the X7 in my PS4 setup. @Sennheiser, let's see if we can make this happen! 

I have yet to crack open my copy of God of War. I've been too busy hunting monsters when my PS4 is on.


----------



## mindbomb (Jun 7, 2018)

KewlMunky said:


> Interesting little device. I'd certainly like to give it a try, but I wish I could use it just for the DSP and then have it feed my DAC. I'd hate to have to switch around my setup between gaming and music.
> 
> You also mention that Dolby Headphone isn't far behind GSX Surround. To be honest, Dolby Headphone didn't impress me at all. I always feel extremely underwhelmed by every digital surround sound attempt.
> 
> Would be nice if they had their software for the DSP available for download; offer a free limited time trial, and then one could purchase it. Having the little box there for adjustment mid game without having to tab out of my game is nice, but I really don't need the amp section, nor do I want to leave my DAC sitting on the sidelines.



It might be that my head looks a lot like a kemar, but I find that I can get good results with pretty much all the different virtual surround sound tech out there. I like the spaciousness of dolby headphone dh1, the sennheiser gsx with one + for reverb, and windows sonic for headphone. But I also got good directional cues with dolby atmos for headphone and its extremely low reverb - it just felt unusually small compared to those other ones.


----------



## DasGouche

I wanted to do a mini poll of what headphones you used during different types of gaming sessions. I apologize if this has been asked ad nauseam, but with almost 2700 pages of replies, I was not able to see a similar poll. Anyway, here are the gaming sessions: Please note if you are using a stereo setting or a VSS setup (optional)

1. Competitive: This is a gaming session where you don't care how the overall experience is, but you want as much audio advantage as you can get.
2. Experience: You want to immerse yourself in the game and don't want to miss any of the detail (even if it means you can only game for 1-2 hours due to fatigue)
3. Marathon: You know you will be gaming for many hours and need some headphones that will be as comfortable and enjoyable in hour 1 as in hour X
4. VR/Mobile: You might not be able to use your favorite open back, but you still want to get the best sound you can.

Thanks in advance for your contribution. I myself have not finished trying out headphones to give an adequate reply to these questions, but I look forward to seeing all of your replies.

P.S. Feel free to amend as you see fit.


----------



## mbyrnes

DasGouche said:


> I wanted to do a mini poll of what headphones you used during different types of gaming sessions. I apologize if this has been asked ad nauseam, but with almost 2700 pages of replies, I was not able to see a similar poll. Anyway, here are the gaming sessions: Please note if you are using a stereo setting or a VSS setup (optional)
> 
> 1. Competitive: This is a gaming session where you don't care how the overall experience is, but you want as much audio advantage as you can get.
> 2. Experience: You want to immerse yourself in the game and don't want to miss any of the detail (even if it means you can only game for 1-2 hours due to fatigue)
> ...



My Hifiman HE-X V2s check every box for me. I can use them for everything. I'll keep these forever, as I truly love their sound, comfort, and light weight for a planar. They have enough bass that I don't miss the headphones below much. But sometimes.....

Immersion- Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and Monoprice M1060 for gobs of bass, or a smaller soundstage compared to the HE-X. These work well in a game like Wolfenstein 2, with its small and closed spaces. 

Portable- Sennheiser PC-37X. Their efficiency is amazing, and the only headphones I have that get loud enough without an amp (I listen much louder than most). Use this with the Switch. My LG V30 is powerful enough to drive other cans I have. Also the volume dial on the side is great for quick changes.


----------



## Tohex

KewlMunky said:


> You also mention that Dolby Headphone isn't far behind GSX Surround. To be honest, Dolby Headphone didn't impress me at all. I always feel extremely underwhelmed by every digital surround sound attempt.



I have tried DH through a Asus Sonar STX and 2 different generations of Mixamps. I have had an X-Fi CMSS3D card as well and overall the GSX is 100% my preference. To be fair I never had them all at once and so I wasn't able to run them side by side but the ease of the package, as well as the quality of the positional queues, makes the GSX a true pleasure. I hope they bring out a 2nd generation with a line-out & optical-out with the DSP passthrough as that would solve the problems and not introduce/rework their currently brilliant approach through a software attempt.


----------



## Acosta1906

Hey guys, 
I have a m50x that I use for gaming and I'm not satisfied, I decided to do a upgrade but there are some many headphones and differents reviews that at this point I'm a little confuse and if someone could help me I will be really grateful.
I want 2 headphones, one close and one open. In the close one I need a headphone good for competitive games, fun for other kind of games that I don't need to listen footsteps, music and movies. I'm between :
Beyerdynamic custom one pro 
Audio Technica ath msr7 
For the open one I want that will be really good at competitive games and I'm between :
Audio Technica ad900x 
Akg k712.
Thanks for the help


----------



## PurpleAngel

Acosta1906 said:


> Hey guys,
> I have a m50x that I use for gaming and I'm not satisfied, I decided to do a upgrade but there are some many headphones and differents reviews that at this point I'm a little confuse and if someone could help me I will be really grateful.
> I want 2 headphones, one close and one open. In the close one I need a headphone good for competitive games, fun for other kind of games that I don't need to listen footsteps, music and movies. I'm between :
> Beyerdynamic custom one pro, Audio Technica ath MSR7
> ...


Why two different headphones (open & closed)?
Are the headphones going to be plugged into a PC computer's on-board audio?


----------



## Acosta1906

PurpleAngel said:


> Why two different headphones (open & closed)?
> Are the headphones going to be plugged into a PC computer's on-board audio?


I need 2 headphones because I prefer open ones for competitive game but I have people living close to me, so I can't do noise at night that's when I like to playing or seeing movies and the opens let the sound leave.
It's for playing in ps4, I have a magni 3 connect to a mixamp pro.
Sorry for my English, it's not my first language.


----------



## mikerrr (Jun 14, 2018)

this is my custom 5.1 speaker


Denon AVR-X3400H
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision...XifDgk_AEPciaFX6ELu9WvoqEqEApflYaApWfEALw_wcB


SUBWOOFER:
SVS PB-2000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000


dali Zensor 3 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-5703120106687-Zensor-3-Black/dp/B00E0I7B14




SURROUND: Dali Zensor 1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-Zensor-Speakers-Pair-Black/dp/B0057X5KF0



: Dali Zensor Vokal
https://www.whathifi.com/dali/263123/overview

my  first  question is  how  you find my  5,1  system>?? is  it  good??

this  5.1 was  recomended  from one  my  friend??

the second  question is
i want to  buy one  new souncard

i am between  these  4

*Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or AE5 soundblaster*

*which is the  best and what is  the difference  between  them??*

*i want one from  these cards  for  games  music and  movies*


*so can  yoy aswere me  please  in  all  these  things i  have write in  my post?*
.


----------



## Fegefeuer

please format your post, it's hard to read.

Since I mostly stopped reading at your home theater setup I recommend you to get the Dali Alteco C1. I have them (also using the X3400h) and they are really great. Using Dolby upmixer or Neural X by DTS you get a profit in every game or movie that doesn't support Atmos or DTS:X. 
Soundstage is bigger, taller, it's amazing what they do with the additional height speakers. 

Don't get an internal soundcard other than for DSP tech like SBX etc. (get a Sound Blaster Z and use the optical out to your DAC/AMP) Save your money for a Schiit Modi Multibit + Lyr 3, get a headphone like the HD800. I mean, money isn't your problem as you said.


----------



## mikerrr (Jun 14, 2018)

this is my custom 5.1 speaker


Denon AVR-X3400H
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision...XifDgk_AEPciaFX6ELu9WvoqEqEApflYaApWfEALw_wcB


SUBWOOFER:
SVS PB-2000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000


dali Zensor 3 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-5703120106687-Zensor-3-Black/dp/B00E0I7B14




SURROUND: Dali Zensor 1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-Zensor-Speakers-Pair-Black/dp/B0057X5KF0



: Dali Zensor Vokal
https://www.whathifi.com/dali/263123/overview

my first question is how you find my 5,1 system>?? is it good??

in my   5,1  system what  you  would change??

do you find  all these  speakers  very  good??

is it  good  my subwoofer??

this  5,1  custom was recomemded  from one my friend

Dali Zensor Vokal

Dali Zensor 1
dali Zensor 3

are  all good??

[mod edit: merged posts]


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> My Hifiman HE-X V2s check every box for me. I can use them for everything. I'll keep these forever, as I truly love their sound, comfort, and light weight for a planar. They have enough bass that I don't miss the headphones below much. But sometimes.....
> 
> Immersion- Fostex TH-X00 Ebony and Monoprice M1060 for gobs of bass, or a smaller soundstage compared to the HE-X. These work well in a game like Wolfenstein 2, with its small and closed spaces.
> 
> Portable- Sennheiser PC-37X. Their efficiency is amazing, and the only headphones I have that get loud enough without an amp (I listen much louder than most). Use this with the Switch. My LG V30 is powerful enough to drive other cans I have. Also the volume dial on the side is great for quick changes.


I stopped bothering and just use the PC37X for all my gaming. Clears aren't the best choice for gaming due to narrow soundstage. I could go out and buy something more high end than the Senn headset but every time I think about the ModMic I get a vietnam flashback.


----------



## HairyHook

mikerrr said:


> this is my custom 5.1 speaker
> 
> 
> Denon AVR-X3400H
> ...


Do not post three/four consecutive times asking the same questions. This is not a chat, but a forum where we try to help each other. Format your posts like you were recommended previously. 

I can't answer your questions, no experience with your Hardware.


----------



## mikerrr

look i want to buy one new soundcard

so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
and what is the difference between them?


----------



## CFGamescape

iAudio365 said:


> Hi guys, I know this question has been asked before but any help would be appreciated.
> 
> IEM’s for gaming what are the best ones currently in your opinion? I can spend anywhere from 1-2k on a pair, as I say I know this question has been asked before but from my research those are from older threads and websites from as far back as 2014-16 but can not fond anything of substance that’s up to date on 2018 as technology has come a long way and I know there’s a fair few iems out now that are up there with some of the best totl full size headphones.
> 
> ...



I have the Unique Melody ME.1 and I tried gaming with them connected to a Creative Sound Blaster G5 sound card. The G5 drives them very well; in fact, I had to put the gain on L, and the ME.1's like power. Anyway, that is beside the point.

The sound stage is what you'd expect from an open-back headphone, and the bass on the ME.1's is quite good, especially with the right tips. Because they're open-back IEMs, at least for me, I noticed that outside sound was a lot more pronounced than if I were using open-back headphones. It wasn't a problem, but just something I noticed.

But the problem with gaming with IEMs is comfort. Not comfort in your ears per se, but because you have two cables dangling off your ears, draped down your chest, under your arms. With your typical headphone, the cable(s) is off to the side. And when you're gaming, specifically PC gaming at a desk, a lot of the movements I made with my hands and arms affected the ME.1 cable. Now, do note that I used an aftermarket cable that was significantly thicker than the stock one UM provides; however, I think the problem still would have existed. Perhaps a longer cable would have solved it?

But, if you're tired of headphones, I think the ME.1, as far as sound quality is concerned, definitely would meet your criteria, especially given the headphones you've had in the past. I love the ME.1!


----------



## pietcux

Yethal said:


> I stopped bothering and just use the PC37X for all my gaming. Clears aren't the best choice for gaming due to narrow soundstage. I could go out and buy something more high end than the Senn headset but every time I think about the ModMic I get a vietnam flashback.


I have the GSP600 on my GSX1000 and simply love it for what it is, a gaming headset. My Game One lives in my office now and is being used for Skype for business. I had 3 Skype conferences today for nearly 3.5 hours in total, the Sennheiser gaming headsets are super comfortable besides delivering great gaming sound performance. I also especially love how the mic jusy can be swiveled up and the mic is muted.


----------



## pietcux

mikerrr said:


> look i want to buy one new soundcard
> 
> so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
> and what is the difference between them?


I have the Xonar STX since 8 or 9 years. I still have working drivers for W10, so no problem here. I use it to listen to music and watching movies as dac/preamp for my Sennheiser HDVA600 amp. For music it is set to Stereo, for movies I use the Dolby Atmos pluin for Windows or sonic for Windows.
For Gaming I use the Sennheiser GSX1000 with the GSP600.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 14, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> Save your money for a Schiit Modi Multibit + Lyr 3, get a headphone like the HD800. I mean, money isn't your problem as you said.



I think with the Lyr 3 you have an option of have a dac built in, so you wouldn't need a Modi. Or am I wrong here? I checked Schiit yesterday after so many years and I noticed that they're doing optional dacs in some of their amps. I love that idea. The less gear, the better. If I was still heavy into headphone gaming,m I would definitely be happy with the Lyr 3, + perhaps a LISST tube for when a tube blows out or something.

I really miss the sound of the Vali. It made me a believer of tube amps, though it had a considerably narrow soundstage compared to whatever ss amp I compared it to at the time. Might have been an Audio-GD Compass 2 or SA31.


----------



## Fegefeuer

True, but those cards are inferior to the standalone device (which also have their own PSU) and I'd rather have the Modi to be always on (which is a must) than an dac/amp which produces much more heat and has a tube.


----------



## mindbomb (Jun 15, 2018)

I do use spdif output from a soundcard, but I think a genuine challenge nowadays is finding somewhat low cost dacs with good spdif performance (most companies are now prioritizing usb). I think you are best off checking the second hand market for an old benchmark dac1 or cambridge audio dacmagic.


----------



## mikerrr

so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
and what is the difference between them?

this i am asking??

which to  buy?? for  games  music and movies??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> True, but those cards are inferior to the standalone device (which also have their own PSU) and I'd rather have the Modi to be always on (which is a must) than an dac/amp which produces much more heat and has a tube.


 I guess I prefer the convenience. Schiit says it's the same as the ones in the Modi multi-bit so I would assume they sound the exact same. The less gear I have, the better.


----------



## Gladzilla

What is the best mix amp in terms of floor noise and DH reproduction.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 15, 2018)

If by DH reproduction you mean any good virtual surround, I say the Creative X7. If you mean actual Dolby Headphone, then look for a second gen Mixamp that looks like the one on the first page. Probably hella cheap on Ebay if you're lucky.

Second gen would not have any eq button on the face. Only power and DH button and volume knob.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Jun 16, 2018)

Just had a quick question - have been running a X7 with BT-W2 for PS4 gaming which was needed due to the headphones I had been using.  

Two things have changed, my gaming is mainly One X based now (with voice chat needed) and I now have far easier to drive headphones/headset (Audio Technica ATH-ADG1X).  I'm quite happy with the quality of Windows Sonic/Dolby Atmos via the pad and now feel the £300 Creative setup I have is overkill. 

Wondered if running a Mixamp Pro TR with Dolby off would add anything quality wise compared to the controller audio.  Headphones clearly sound better via the X7 than via the pad but need a much more lounge friendly voice chat set up (which is awful on the X1/X7 combo).  While I appreciate the DAC/Amp of the Mixamp probably isn't all that, is it even a slight step up from the pad?


----------



## mikerrr

so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
and what is the difference between them?

this i am asking??

which to buy?? for games music and movies??


----------



## pietcux

mikerrr said:


> so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
> and what is the difference between them?
> 
> this i am asking??
> ...


As you can see in my signature, I own the STX, the STX II is a marginal updated version. I can recommend it, it runs good under Windows XP/VISTA/7 and 10. It even worked fine under W XP64. I know that because I own it since it came out. The drivers evoled and are still good to go. I changed the Processor / mainboard regularly, but never the soundcard. It is that good. The other two I don't have and don't care about. I have my STX.


----------



## mikerrr

look i am not profecional music maker.. i am not music producer

as person i am looking one soundcard for to play games listening music and movies.

i dont know from SNR (and other technical values)

i want one soyncard to have good software


i want one from these souncards (asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and soynblaster AE-5) to be good in these 3 things play games listening music and movies

to have good drivers and support.

also i want one from these souncards (asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and soynblaster AE-5) for to use with headphones

also can you sugested me and one Amp for headphones ( i have now game zero headphones)

also i want to tell me what is your opinion about asus Strix Raid DLX

first i was thinking to buy asus Strix Raid DLX but some people told me that dlx is not good souncard and some people told me to buy soynblaster AE-5 and not asus Strix Raid DLX

but in the reviews of asus Strix Raid DLX it has positive such as soynblaster AE-5

some another people told me to buy Asus Essence STX II 7.1 and not soynblaster AE-5 and not asus Strix Raid DLX for games music and movies

so which of these 3 are the best?

also i want this soundcard and for my headphones but also and for my custom 5.1 speaker
which is
Denon AVR-X3400H
https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision....YaApWfEALw_wcB


SUBWOOFER:
SVS PB-2000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000


dali Zensor 3 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-570312.../dp/B00E0I7B14




SURROUND: Dali Zensor 1
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dali-Zensor.../dp/B0057X5KF0





: Dali Zensor Vokal
https://www.whathifi.com/dali/263123/overview


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 17, 2018)

Portapro wireless with drivers attached to the KSC75 clips = even more portable.

Koss should add thistas an option for people who want an alternative to KSC75s in wireless form. Wouldn't hurt to be like $30 cheaper. I assume a lot of the cost is the headband, since the Sportapro is like $25 cheaper than the regular Portapro despite having the same drivers.


----------



## MotionMadness (Jun 18, 2018)

Hello everyone, firstly i want to thank you op and the others for that topic, it really helps, but i am still struggling on my final decision. The models i am thinking are DT 990, K612 Pro, HD 558/598. I will use the headphone i am going to buy on ps4 pro for mostly gaming but also for movies and music too. I play competetive gaming but i also play games that capture the person with its immersive visuals and audio like Horizon Zero Dawn, Witcher, Shadow of Colossus so i don't wanna lose to much on immersive audio for the sake of competetive gaming. I need something that can satisfy me on both sides. This will be my first expensive headphone, currently i have Koss PortaPro 25th Year Anni Edition and KZ ZS6. Can you guys make a suggestion? 

Also i won't be able to spend money on a decent amp for couple of months at least, i am going to buy an amp that made by a local guy if i choose a headphone which is hard to drive. I am going to connect the amp to DS4 Controller. I will buy the mixamp later with a decent amp when i have the money. Can you check that local guy's amp for me and tell me if it is ok to use for a couple of months?

https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/iki...i-kulaklik-amfisi-se-iii-yeni-254624253/detay

Its specs in English
1-16 Volt 1 Amper Adapter
2-3A5 NOS RCA American lamb
3-Powerful Capacitors
4-Vibrant sound
5-Great soundstage, fun bass and mids/treble that don't exhaust your ears
6-Korean made potentiometer
7-One year warranty


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 18, 2018)

*A WORD OF WARNING
*
I have something to say to ANY company who has products, or any reviewing company that thinks I can only say positive things.

I will NEVER, EVER go against by what I feel. This means if you send me a product that I think sucks, I WILL tell you it sucks, and I'll even give you the reasons why. I will NEVER brown nose YOU or ANY company you happen to be affiliated with. If you send me a product for IMPRESSIONS or that isn't a FINALIZED form, tell me so, and I will give you my HONEST thoughts so you can make adjustments if you'd like instead of just telling you what you want to hear. If you send me something for review, I'll give a review of the product if I feel it's worth reviewing for my viewers here. If not, I will tell you I didn't like it, and that a review wouldn't be favorable, so I would decline. That way you won't have negative press from me on said product, and you can send me something else I MIGHT see in a favorable light. I, once again would never write about something I don't like. Not in the past so many years, and never again.

Saying something sounds like a mess isn't TRASHING a product. It's me telling you honestly that it sounded like a mess to. Trashing a product would be me publicly denouncing your product in one of my reviews and telling people not to get it because it's crap. At length. Even that would fall under my opinion, but I honestly wouldn't go about doing that nowadays.

If you are ok with this, then please by all means, contact me and I'll likely check out your product. But if you get offended because I didn't like something, then work on yourselves, because the real world isn't all about kissing your arse. You'll get my honest impression or nothing at all. I'd rather write nothing at all than bend to some notion that you can only say good things to keep amicable ties with companies. I don't owe you or anyone around you a damn thing.

If this language is too strong for you, sorry not sorry. I'm not a professional ass kisser. I write reviews for the sake of helping people buying products, not for the company's sake. As I see it, I'm essentially free advertisement when I DO write a review. You'd be surprised how many people I get telling me how I helped them buy a product. I don't get anything but THAT satisfaction, while you companies reap the benefits. So to get upset that I don't like something and said so, boo freaking hoo. Tough.

My two cents. You can quote me on all of this. Don't EVER question my integrity, my bluntness, or WHY I do this. I have no problem defending my beliefs.​


----------



## Pairzilla

MLE I was looking at your ether c review right now. Do you have any time spent with the ether's ? What you said about the c's sounds very intriguing but I much prefer open backed. Any idea if those open backs have that wonder sound you described in the c's review ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 18, 2018)

Sorry I have no experience with the Ethers. General advice: If it's not on the guide, I most likely I haven't tried it.

For anyone who is private messaging me about certain products not on the guide, this is why I don't reply. *I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ON PRODUCTS I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED FOR MYSELF. If it is NOT on the guide, please do not message me about it. I would be making assumptions, and assumptions can be wrong. I can only speak for products I have reviewed!*


----------



## mikerrr

look i want to buy one new soundcard
so which to buy Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 or Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 and which is the best?
and what is the difference between them?


----------



## Fegefeuer

just buy the AE-5 and call it a day. It will be fine for you in all and any cases forever and ever, together forever and eeeeeeeeeeeeeever and on and oooon and oooooooooooooooooooon, together you will be strong!


----------



## mikerrr

do  you believe  that  AE-5  is  better  from Asus Strix Raid DLX and Asus Essence STX II 7.1 ???


----------



## Gladzilla

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If by DH reproduction you mean any good virtual surround, I say the Creative X7. If you mean actual Dolby Headphone, then look for a second gen Mixamp that looks like the one on the first page. Probably hella cheap on Ebay if you're lucky.
> 
> Second gen would not have any eq button on the face. Only power and DH button and volume knob.



How can I tell the 2009 with both buttons apart from the 2011 edition?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 20, 2018)

Gladzilla said:


> How can I tell the 2009 with both buttons apart from the 2011 edition?



The 2009 looks different, and the USB is just for power, while the USB on the 2011 works for chat on the PC for the 2011. IIRC, the usb chat also worked for PS3.

On the first page I show the newer version as well as the 2011 with two buttons. If it doesn't look like the one pictured on the first page, it ain't the one.

THIS is the old one:






THIS is the 2011






Bear in mind that the old one is just as good as the 2011 in terms of SQ and little noise floor. Just, it doesn't have chat through usb. Not that you're likely to find one in the wild anyways.


----------



## Gladzilla

Awesome thanks, so I do have the mix amp pro that you listed on the bottom.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 20, 2018)

Hey guys, so I finally had the mindset and time to write this up, so here is my impressions on Dekoni Audio's Hybrid and Elite Velour pads! As always, any errors will be patched up as I catch them later. Sometimes I'm completely blind to mistakes until I go through my reviews a hundred times. I apologize in advance.



*
Dekoni Audio Pads
*






*Elite Hybrid pads: From $79.99 to $99.99 depending on headphone model.
Elite Velour pads: From $49.99 to 59.99 depending on headphone model.*

Before I begin, I'd like to give thanks to Tal at @DekoniAudio for sending these out to me for me to try. Also thanks to @Evshrug for getting me into contact with them.  Dekoni Audio is relatively new to me, as in I didn't know much about them until recently. What I did know of them was that they offered various ear pads of differing qualities and materials for some of today's most popular headphones. I feel that with the range of sizes and materials, the earpads will likely fit a much, MUCH larger pool of headphones not listed on their website. For example, I asked them for some Fostex TH-900 Elite Hybrid pads to use with my aging Hifiman HE-400, as well as some Elite Velours made for the Beyerdynamic DT700/880/990 line that I'm using for a Beyerdynamic Custom Game (headset variant of the Custom One Pro), as well as MMX300 headset.

Chances are, if you're well acquainted with a specific headphone, you may find a pair of Dekoni pads that fit them. You may wanna ask Dekoni directly for pad size inner diameter, outer, depth, etc, as well as figuring out if your headphones have easily replaceable pads.

I say it's worth a try, because these are some truly well built pads that offer a unique presentation of both comfort and sound quality. Mind you, pad swapping may be a simple process, but can have huge effects on sound quality for better or worse. It's hard to critique pads based on sound quality, especially when using them for headphones not originally intended. All one can hope for is that pad swapping leads to better comfort and nearly equal or better sound quality compared to stock pads. There may even be some necessary sacrificing of some sound quality in order to make some uncomfortable headphones much easier to wear.

Pad rolling can be a definite gamble. A gamble I say is worthwhile if you'd like to experiment or just aren't happy with the pads you use. As someone with a large distaste for pleather and leather pads of any variety, I always look into alternatives that at the very least have a cloth layer where the pads rest on the skin. Velour is the obvious choice, or so you'd think, but velour is a porous material that can be a detriment to headphones (mainly closed-backed) because it allows sound to escape through the pads where it may not have been intended. Thankfully, pads like the Hybrid Velours sold by Dekoni Audio have a velour top layer, while the rest of the pad is leather, allowing it to seal and isolate the sound so it goes straight from the drivers to your ears without unintended venting through the pads, yet have the comfort of velour on the skin.

Coming back to Dekoni Audio, they do everything from their headphone ear pads, to IEM tips, and even a custom T50RP planarmagnetic headphone, the Dekoni Audio Blue. As for their selection of pads, they have: Fenestrated Sheepskin, Hybrid, Sheepskin, Velour, a "Platinum Series" with Memory Foam and higher quality pleather, and finally the "Standard Series" which are there for those wanting a more basic replacement for their headphones.

For this review, as stated before, I'll be giving impressions on the Hybrid pads and Elite Velours. Not for their intended headphones, but I'll try my best to give an idea of what to expect.



*Packaging*

I absolutely love the presentation of the Dekoni Audio pads. They each come in a small but handsome box that house the pads, with a word from Dekoni Audio under the top lid, on the inside. You can tell by the presentation that they truly believe in their product. Simple, yet elegant.



*Build*

Elite Velour:






Starting with the Elite Velours made for the Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990. The Elite Velour is a noticeably bigger pad, with considerable density compared to what I remember of the 880/990 velours. Comparing it to the stock MMX300 velour pad, which I have to assume is the same as the stock DT770 velours as they are both made to seal better than the 880/990 velours, I felt the MMX300 stock pads are a bit stiffer with internal material that isolates better and allows for noticeably less leakage. The Elite Velour pads are slightly deeper/taller. The Elite Velour material feels quite different to the velours on both the 880/900 or 770/MMX300. It's more 'cloth'-like? Hard to describe. Less itchy. Comparing it to the Custom Game's pleather pads, well, it's unquestionably night and day, as expected. I'd take the Elite Velours over the pleather any day of the week. Now, the Custom Game's pleather pads are one of the least offensive, and quite comfortable for pleather, but there's no real comparison to some comfy, pillowy velour. No contest.

Elite Hybrid:






The Elite Hybrid remind me a lot like the Hifiman Focus Pads. Large pleather walls, with a top lined in velour. Unlike the Focus pads, I feel they actually seal well. I always felt that the HE-400 with Focus pads lost a bit of its bass output. I was never a fan of the HE400 with those pads. Not so with the Elite Hybrid, but I'll get to that later. If you want a pleather/leather like seal without the discomfort of having that material touching your skin, the Elite Hybrids are the way to go. They look and feel every bit as premium as what I expect for high end headphone use. I would've loved hearing the LCD-2 and Denon D7000 with these pads. I'm sure I'd have fallen in love.



*Pad Install*

As you have expected, installing the pads on to your headphones is absolutely dependent on the headphone in question. On the Beyerdynamic Custom Game and MMX300, installing pads is a relatively pain free affair. It takes a few moments to slip the pads over the lip of the headphones, and that's it, you're good to go.

On the other hand, installing pads onto the HE-400 is an exercise of utter frustration. Now, don't get me wrong. This is absolutely NOT the fault of Dekoni Audio's pads. It is completely due to the nightmare that is the HE-400's plastic rings of doom which you must first slip onto your pads, and then manage to get the 'teeth' of the plastic rings to land inside the small inner lip of the HE400's inner mounting 'area' (for lack of a better term). This can take anything from a few seconds if you're lucky to NOT doing it, having broken rings, and lacerated pads. It really is that bad. Anyone with older style Hifiman headphones will tell you. I have owned these for years, and it is always painful when I swap pads. Even with spare rings, I have managed to break every single one. Now, it's not as bad as the HELL that was the even older clear plastic teeth mechanism on the older gen Hifiman headphones like the HE-4, but it's still pretty bad.

Complaints of the Hifiman rings aside, this made doing quick pad swap comparisons impossible. I honestly can't go in depth between sonic difference (especially) on the HE-400 because frankly, I'd go insane before I could muster enough data.



*Comfort*

Both the Elite Hybrid and Elite Velour pads are humongous step up from standard pleather earpads. Both the HE400 and Custom Game's pleather earpads just don't match the Dekoni Audio pad comfort. The Beyerdynamic MMX300 velours can definitely put up a fight, as they are also quite comfortable despite being more shallow and more dense. Between the Elite Velour and Elite Hybrid, I'd say the Velours have the edge in comfort, if by a small amount. I wouldn't purchase one over the other based on comfort, but more on what sounds better on a particular headphone.



*Sound*

This is something that gave me trouble and I didn't want to spend much time doing, simply because comparing just isn't easy without two identical headphones using different pads to do quick A/B comparisons. What I will say is what I feel was good and bad for the pad swapping with some examples:


Elite Velour:

I was able to test these for the MMX300, Custom Game, and even the HE400. What I found for all three headphones was that it gave each a sense of clarity air and detail. I felt it particularly beneficial on the Custom Game which with its stock pleather pads sounds a bit unremarkable in terms of details. It is a well balanced headphone in general but lacked a sense of clarity. With the Elite Velours, it gained noticeably better soundstage, and detail retrieval. The bass output on the Custom Game is more or less completely adjustable via it's adjustable bass port sliders, but one thing is for certain: The Elite Velour noticeably reduces bass output by a considerable amount. The loss of bass is offset by adjusting the bass slider for more bass, so the bass loss isn't an issue, but for other closed headphones using Elite Velours may make a noticeable impact in reducing bass. Just a word of warning there.

The Elite Velour on the Custom Game is a success. It improves clarity, and despite reduced bass, you can add bass right back in with the bass slider. I also feel it enhances the soundstage, which felt a bit restrictive on the stock pads at times.

MMX300: Expect a loss of bass energy as it essentially turns the MMX300 bass light. Now, it wasn't a complete alteration of sound signature, but seeing as the MMX300 is tonally v-shaped, with heavy bass and sparkly treble with distant midrange, the Elite Velours reduced the bass to a minimal, tight level, the midrange remained spaced back, and treble remained sparkly.

HE400: The HE400 isn't overly picky on pads when it comes to most of its bass output. The HE400 will always have a punchy bass, and it's mostly in its deeper levels of bass that may vary depending on pads used. The HE400 is also sensitive to pad swaps when referring to its clarity. It can be dark and zingy, or sharper and airy. It's a weird headphone in that despite it's default dark tonality, has a pretty pronounced treble that doesn't quite match the rest of the sound.

The HE400 with the Elite Velour pads becomes a slightly more detailed oriented headphone with the same punchy bass. Due to the uplift in clarity and slightly brighter tone, the treble isn't as jarring in terms of emphasis relative to the rest of the sound. It's still crisp and sparkly, but since the rest of the sound is elevated to match it more evenly,

This gave me all the proof necessary to form a conclusion: The Elite Velours are made for and sound better with open headphones. Now, I'm not Dekoni Audio, and they didn't respond to my email asking them about this, but anyone who knows the DT770, 880, and 990, know that the 770 uses a different set of velour pads than the 880/990. The 770 stock velours isolate well, and keep leakage to a minimum. They are quite dense. The 880/990 velours leak a ton, are super soft and plush, and are obviously not suited for closed headphones. If you swap 770 pads into the 880/990, they become sloppy, overly bass oriented and muffled. If you put 880/990 pads on 770s, the 770s sound bass deficient and overly zingy/treble oriented. So I'm not exactly sure which of the two (open or closed) the Elite Velours were tested with by Dekoni Audio, but I feel they should target the Elite Velours for the 880/990, and not the 770. That is my assumption with no concrete evidence as to the effect it may have on a pair of DT770s, though considering the MMX300 was based off the 770, I'd think it would have a similar result of reduced bass. I'd say the Elite Velours falls right in between 880/990 pads and 770 pads. Not as leaky and open as the former, but not as closed and isolating as the latter. I'd venture a guess in saying these would pair up wonderfully with the DT880. I only wish I had them on hand to test out. Remember, they only reduce bass in comparison to leather/pleather pads that completely isolate the sound. This isn't likely to occur when using these pads on headphones that use velour pads by default.


Elite Hybrid:

The Hybrid pads are a different monster altogether. They are very much like a pleather/leather pads that are typically paired with closed headphones due to how well they isolate, seal, and keep noise leak to a minimum. Because of this, I feel that the Elite Hybrids make a better 'direct' replacement for closed headphone pads where you don't want to drastically alter the inherent sound signature but don't want to feel pleather/leather on the skin.

The HE400 with Elite Hybrids retain their inherent sound signature: bassy, warm down low with a crisp top end. Those looking for the least compromise of the inherent sound characteristics of the HE400, the Elite Hybrids do that, but with better comfort. I really appreciate this setup for when I'm in the mood for that planar bass. This reminds me why I fell in love with the HE400 all those years ago. It is a flawed headphone, but no headphone at the time other than the original LCD-2 Rev. 2 could do planarmagnetic bass like the HE-400.

I do think the HE400 sounds objectively better (if slightly) with the Elite Velour pads, though ultimately, it's a minute difference. For a long time now, I have used Shure 1540 Alcantara pads on the HE400 as a replacement for the stock pleather pads. I can say without a doubt, the Elite Hybrid pads sound noticeably better at retaining the HE400 sound than the Alcantara pads. I only used the pads because I was okay with sacrificing some audio quality for better comfort. With the Elite Hybrid pads, now I don't have to.

I briefly tested the Hybrid pads with the MMX300, and can confirm that the pads do the best in retaining most of the sound characteristics of the MMX300. It wasn't exactly like the stock velour pads, but it was good enough to say that I would be happy with either on the MMX300. These particular TH900 hybrid pads don't exactly fit perfectly over the lip of the MMX300 housing, so I would recommend obviously getting the ones made for the DT series.


Final Word On Sound:

Take my impressions with a grain of salt, since these pads were NOT specifically made for the headphones I had on hand. What I can say is that the Hybrid pads worked perfectly fine with the HE400 and MMX300, and I have no doubt would on the Custom Game as well. The Elite Velour pads worked best on the HE400, though I would suggest getting Elite Velour pads for a bigger headphone if you want them for the HE400, as the ones I had on hand were for the Beyer DT line which was on the smaller side, and the HE400's plastic ring was bulging out of the pads a little. They also worked surprisingly well on the Custom Game, as long as bass sliders are raised to 2 or 3 ports open (max level). 0-1 port open was a bit bass shy for my tastes.

I personally advise not to expect major leaps in sound quality or anything drastic. Don't expect miracles. Expect more in the line of quality of life improvements, and not purely performance improvements.



*Personal Recommendations*

I recommend you look into Elite Hybrid pads pads for closed headphones, and the Elite Velour pads for open ones. Even so, I go by the motto: "Don't fix it if it ain't broken." Unless you're unhappy with your current pads, or are just curious, I'd personally stick with what I have. If you're looking to upgrade from an uncomfortable set of pads or just need a replacement, I can't think of a better product line than the one provided by Dekoni Audio.


*Likes and Dislikes
*
_Pros:_

_Quality_
_Comfort_
_Pad swapping may have positive effects_
_Cons:_

_Pad swapping may have negative effects_



*Final Impressions*






To repeat myself, I think those with closed headphones that want the comfort of velour with the isolation and sound quality retained, should really look into the Elite Hybrid pads Dekoni Audio offers. I can't speak of their other leather/sheepskin pads as I didn't test them, but my choice would always go towards the Hybrid pads. As for Elite Velour pads, consider them for open backed headphones. I think if nothing else, headphones like the DT880 and DT990 would benefit from these pads. In the future, I'll be contacting Dekoni Audio if and when I have some other headphones to try that fall in their line of products to gain a better idea of what Dekoni Audio pads do to headphones they target pads for.


----------



## mbyrnes

Great work one again Mad. Pad swapping is fun. Easy way to improve comfort and modify sound. Hopefully they send you other products to review. It would be really helpful for us all.


----------



## husafreak

Most excellent review. I got a set for my MD Fostex TH-X00 and I think they are very comfortable, easily besting the original pads. Sound is the same to me. Comfort can't be beat.


----------



## Niyologist

Should I replace my headphone pads for the DT990? If so. Which one?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Niyologist said:


> Should I replace my headphone pads for the DT990? If so. Which one?


Factory replacement ear pads cost around $35.
Generic ear pads from China will cost under $10.
Me, I would go for the factory pads, better quality material (for the feel), then the generic.
But if you went with generic, it's still a good value for the price, for decent ear pads.


----------



## ascarf99 (Jun 22, 2018)

Hey, any plans on reviewing the Sennheiser GSP 500/600? If so, please compare the sound signature to other headphones such as the HD 650 if possible. Thanks 

@Mad Lust Envy


----------



## Niyologist

PurpleAngel said:


> Factory replacement ear pads cost around $35.
> Generic ear pads from China will cost under $10.
> Me, I would go for the factory pads, better quality material (for the feel), then the generic.
> But if you went with generic, it's still a good value for the price, for decent ear pads.



I meant which Dekoni Pads I should go for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Niyologist said:


> I meant which Dekoni Pads I should go for?


The elite Velours. Don't get the other i reviewed as they are made for closed headphones. Getting too much of a seal will make the dt990 very boomy. The elite Velours should be a good mix.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

@Mad Lust Envy 

Anymore impressions on Audeze Mobius now that you have spent several weeks with it?


----------



## Niyologist

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The elite Velours. Don't get the other i reviewed as they are made for closed headphones. Getting too much of a seal will make the dt990 very boomy. The elite Velours should be a good mix.



Ty MLE.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

caenlenfromOCN said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> Anymore impressions on Audeze Mobius now that you have spent several weeks with it?


I haven't had the Mobius since that time I gave impressions of it. Audeze hasn't contacted me about any recent version of it either.


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Audeze hasn't contacted me about any recent version of it either.



Would it be something you'll get for yourself?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 22, 2018)

raband said:


> Would it be something you'll get for yourself?



I'm not in the financial position to buy any headphones, but I sure would love to have one as I feel going the wireless/Bluetooth route is the way to go.

I bought the Portapro wireless because I 100% need something small and portable for work, and got tired of throwing money at KSC75s and Sportapros that kept breaking. Here's hoping the PortaPro by not being tethered to potential yanking/snag points, will keep it from breaking quickly. I still don't trust the cable coming out of it.

For big boy headphones, I honestly don't really use my big cans at home outside of testing/reviewing purposes. The Game Ones I use once in awhile when I need to chat on Destiny 2/PC, or late at night. My HE400 and everything else literally collect dust. I'm just not into headphone gaming anymore. I do this stuff for you guys mainly.


----------



## husafreak

Avoid cheap pads


----------



## Acosta1906

Hi guys, what is the best amp to use with the akg k712? It's to play in ps4, connected to a mixamp.
The price range it's 200-250 €,in this point I'm between ifi ican and aune s7x, there's a better amp for the price?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Acosta1906 said:


> Hi guys, what is the best amp to use with the akg k712? It's to play in ps4, connected to a mixamp.
> The price range it's 200-250 €,in this point I'm between ifi ican and aune s7x, there's a better amp for the price?


100% something like the Schiit Magni whatever number they are on.


----------



## Niyologist

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 100% something like the Schiit Magni whatever number they are on.



Yup. The Magni 3 is excellent for the PS4. I have my iFi iOne connected with the Magni 3.


----------



## MotionMadness

No one replied to my post :/ No problem, it is ok  I ordered a K612 Pro with the help of MLE's reviews,  i chose it instead of HD 598/K702 because there was a great price difference. I bought it for 99 euros(115 dollars) on amazon.de, surprising because the price of it is 170 dollars on amazon.com. Now i need a cheap amp until i save money for a Schiit. Can you help me choose? I have couple of choices. 

-Rega Ear
https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/iki...kulaklik-amfisi-eski-versiyon-528079508/detay

Sellers says it is an older model but in mint condition and works perfectly. 

-A tube amp model made by a local guy, it sells a lot in here and reviews are really good. Has 3A5 Nos RCA tubes and Korean potentiometer. 

https://www.sahibinden.com/ilan/iki...i-kulaklik-amfisi-se-iii-yeni-254624253/detay

-Fiio Q1


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like commenting on gear I don't know anything about, hence why I don't reply to you or anyone asking about random gear.


----------



## MotionMadness (Jun 23, 2018)

Sorry, your earlier post about that matter weirdly didn't hit me until now even though i read it. I guess because you directed it to people who messages you directly. I also asked about the headphones you reviewed too so that's another reason. I'll ask about the amps somewhere else.


----------



## raymond0309

Hi, anyone using GSP500 or GSP600? Can I know which one will be better?

If not paired with GSX1000 and GSX1200, will it sounds good?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

raymond0309 said:


> Hi, anyone using GSP500 or GSP600? Can I know which one will be better?
> 
> If not paired with GSX1000 and GSX1200, will it sounds good?



GSP500 disappointed me. To my ears Game One sound better.  Now bought some Audio Technical ADG1X which are leap years ahead of the 500s (to my ears at least  )


----------



## raymond0309

WhiteHartMart said:


> GSP500 disappointed me. To my ears Game One sound better.  Now bought some Audio Technical ADG1X which are leap years ahead of the 500s (to my ears at least  )


How about GSP600? You try before?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

raymond0309 said:


> How about GSP600? You try before?



Afraid I haven’t. I just don’t like closed back headphones (for gaming at least).


----------



## MotionMadness

Do HD 558 and G4me One sound close? Can someone compere these two?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 23, 2018)

So I bought an Avantree Bluetooth transmitter that has aux, rca, AND optical in, plus a lot of codecs.

Well even though it has aptX and aptX-LL (the ideal codec), it looks like the Koss Portapro wireless only does aptX and not aptX LL, so the transmitter defaults to faststream codec, which is low latency, but sounds... not great.

Damn, Koss. How you gonna release a new wireless headphones and not have aptX-LL? SMH.

Bought this transmitter to keep virtual surround from my X7, but the audio quality of this codec is buttcheeks. 




MotionMadness said:


> Do HD 558 and G4me One sound close? Can someone compere these two?


They should definitely sound similar.


----------



## HamsterKing

@Mad Lust Envy thanks for the review! I'm currently finding solution for the mmx 300 to fit, the ear pads that is included are really painful. I'm just wondering should I go for the mmx 300 or go for other gaming headset. Created a thread about the mmx300  but no one replied


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would get some Dekoni hybrid pads made for the Beyer DT series. Not sure how you could find the stock pads uncomfortable, lol.


----------



## HamsterKing

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I would get some Dekoni hybrid pads made for the Beyer DT series. Not sure how you could find the stock pads uncomfortable, lol.


I'm not very sure too.. I was reading all reviewing and everyone saying it's super comfortable and I was eagerly wanting to purchase it online. Till I went to try it the headphone just clamps my cheekbone/ jaw area, I also have tried it with the beyer T1 it fits but a bit loose it's more comfortable but still hurts. Maybe the headphone doesn't suit me. The dekoni pad is quite pricey


----------



## pietcux

HamsterKing said:


> I'm not very sure too.. I was reading all reviewing and everyone saying it's super comfortable and I was eagerly wanting to purchase it online. Till I went to try it the headphone just clamps my cheekbone/ jaw area, I also have tried it with the beyer T1 it fits but a bit loose it's more comfortable but still hurts. Maybe the headphone doesn't suit me. The dekoni pad is quite pricey


On any headphone the fit and comfort is what's basic. If that is ok, we can talk about the sound. So before you purchase you might want to look elswhere. Sennheiser has some offerings too, or you look into AKG 6XX / 7XX. If you ad a mic you might have all the comfort that you need.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 25, 2018)

HamsterKing said:


> I'm not very sure too.. I was reading all reviewing and everyone saying it's super comfortable and I was eagerly wanting to purchase it online. Till I went to try it the headphone just clamps my cheekbone/ jaw area, I also have tried it with the beyer T1 it fits but a bit loose it's more comfortable but still hurts. Maybe the headphone doesn't suit me. The dekoni pad is quite pricey



Ok, you have the same issue my friend does. He finds very few headphones actually comfortable, because pads that rest on the masseter muscle a specific way always bother him. I do understand the problem. Not sure a pad replacement will fix your issue, as it just may be the diameter of the pads and where they rest that will always be an issue. Perhaps try something smaller, or even on ear.

Sennheiser oval shaped cups tend to be quite a bit more comfy in terms of how/where they rest on your face (i.e. Game One, PC37X, 558/598). Try those instead. I wouldn't go with AKG, because I think they have the same problem of sitting right on the sensitive areas of the masseter muscle.


----------



## MotionMadness (Jun 25, 2018)

I canceled my K612 order because i found a really cheap, brand new HD 558 from a guy whose HD 558 headphones replaced by Amazon under warranty and he was selling them. Even though K612 was cheap compared to HD 598/DT 990 and i wanted to buy it, i was to buy an amp, Antlion modmic (because of the cable it wouldn't work with the cheaper Boompro) and MixAmp with it. It made the whole thing really unlogical and expansive for me. Now i just need Boompro and later maybe i can buy a MixAmp to try Dolby Headphone thing. The guy shipped it, so no turning back anymore.

My question is, should i remove the rubber tape? I know it increases the soundstage but what is the downside of this mod? Do bass suffers much?


----------



## HamsterKing

Okay thanks for the suggestion going back to square one. I'm currently using the Beoplay H2 it's an on ear headphone, can't use it for long hours it will hurt after 1 hour. And I have got a H7 this headphone can't use for long hours too it will heat up after 20 mins. I'm thinking about all in one headset


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

WhiteHartMart said:


> Afraid I haven’t. I just don’t like closed back headphones (for gaming at least).


What’s your opinion on this? I am actually tired of open headphones for gaming lol. I am looking forward to sacrificing some soundstage width for the ability to not hear anything outside the cups. 

I have the Audeze Mobius coming to me soon (hopefully) so that will be cool to be able to compare to the open cans I have used for gaming!


----------



## HamsterKing

I don't really think some people find open back for the surround sound. Maybe they just wanna eavesdrop on the ppl around you? :S and for gaming the fear of parents coming out and hunt for you if you played over the curfew timing you will need to pay attention to game and environment  DD


----------



## dakanao

Is it possible to use the Chord Mojo with the Turtle Beach DSS on console (xbox 360)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

dakanao said:


> Is it possible to use the Chord Mojo with the Turtle Beach DSS on console (xbox 360)?


You'll just have to attach a 3.5mm to RCA cable from the DSS headphone jack to the Mojo's rca input. You'll be using the DSS as a pre-amp this way. Not ideal, but it's the only way. For the cleanest audio from a console, you need an X7. It is the ONLY device that allows virtual surround on console that sends a clean signal to other amps or even dacs.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'll just have to attach a 3.5mm to RCA cable from the DSS headphone jack to the Mojo's rca input. You'll be using the DSS as a pre-amp this way. Not ideal, but it's the only way. For the cleanest audio from a console, you need an X7. It is the ONLY device that allows virtual surround on console that sends a clean signal to other amps or even dacs.


Mojo doesn't have analog inputs


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 29, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Mojo doesn't have analog inputs


Then he'll need an analog to digital converter in between the DSS and Mojo.

This is even less ideal, lol.

Sell all that crap and just get an X7, lol.


----------



## Yethal

X7, the undethroned king of virtual surround.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 29, 2018)

Until someone else steps up and adds all the conveniences that the X7 has, it will absolutely stay there.

If you're looking for a virtual surround solution that can pipe that algorithm into other dacs or amps, this is literally the ONLY device that does it without the need to double amp.

Funny how the X7 wasn't that way at first, and after all the prodding and complaints, those features were added in simply with a downloadable update.

The X7 isn't perfect, but man, it stands far and above all other devices.

If Creative sold a new device that was cheaper without the amp portion, I think a lot of audiophiles would snap it right up. The DAC, as well as virtual surround via digital and analog outs. Big sales, I think. Everyone wants to use their other gear here, so if they did this at $100-200... Maaaan. I'd sell my X7, get this theoretical device with a Vali 2 or something.


----------



## dakanao

What is the best way to connect the Mojo to the xbox 360, to get the best quality sound in stereo?


----------



## Stillhart

dakanao said:


> What is the best way to connect the Mojo to the xbox 360, to get the best quality sound in stereo?



The Mojo has an optical input so just run an optical out from your Xbox to your Mojo.


----------



## dakanao

Just played some MW2 with the Mojo. Regardless of the better HD 540 Reference + Mojo, it still sounds inferior in imaging and soundstage compared to Dolby Headphone (DSS) + Sennheiser HD 579.


----------



## Evshrug (Jul 2, 2018)

Stillhart said:


> The Mojo has an optical input so just run an optical out from your Xbox to your Mojo.




Back in the Action
Not looking for Reaction
Returns taking Traction
Return of the gaming Faction!

Good to see ya Stillhart, been quite a while.


----------



## Yethal

Stillhart said:


> The Mojo has an optical input so just run an optical out from your Xbox to your Mojo.


OMG Stillhart you returned!


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> Just played some MW2 with the Mojo. Regardless of the better HD 540 Reference + Mojo, it still sounds inferior in imaging and soundstage compared to Dolby Headphone (DSS) + Sennheiser HD 579.



When you boil it all down, I agree with you.

The Mojo is a fantastic DAC, amazing that it is such a value for sound quality for the price, and (bonus) somehow it’s also so compact and unique to look at. For music and general audio enjoyment, it’s an easy recommendation.

However... it only accepts 2 channel PCM (and DSD over PCM). This means, hard left, hard panned right, and a % of a sound playing in both channels. No distinction between front and rear, or any elevation. In real life, we can hear where things are coming from with just our two angled ears and our brains, and the reflections and delay caused by the interference of our face, etc etc... and the Mojo doesn’t have a DSP, such processing needs to be baked in beforehand.

Now, if you DO have a DSP with a digital out, like I used to and will again someday, a nice DAC like the Mojo pays dividends in superior soundstage depth and distance accuracy, better separation so it’s easier to keep different voices and effects separate (hear dialogue despite explosions, for example). Is it overkill to use a Sound Blaster X7 solely as a DSP and mic input, connect a Mojo to the X7’s optical out, connect a Sennheiser HDV 820 to the Mojo’s analog outputs, connect an expensive balanced cable to the Pentaconn output of the HDV 820, and finish it off with an HD 800, just to play video games? Yes, yes it is. But if you’ve got it... enjoy it!


----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


> When you boil it all down, I agree with you.
> 
> The Mojo is a fantastic DAC, amazing that it is such a value for sound quality for the price, and (bonus) somehow it’s also so compact and unique to look at. For music and general audio enjoyment, it’s an easy recommendation.
> 
> ...


----------



## raband

I do 3 of those - waiting for the 4th to turn up so I can go plaid.

Mobius hopefully will be a happy diversion in the meantime.


----------



## mikerrr

hi i want to buy new gaming headphones ,, i am playing games i listen music and movies

i am playing all the kind of games



for games what headphones i need open or close ??
which gaming headphones are you sugested me to buy

my budget is 500 euros

in this budget which headphones i can buy?



can you give some suggestions in this budget please??

one my friend told me to buy this STEELSERIES ARCTIS PRO + GAMEDAC 
is it good?

and another my friend sugested me one combo

sennheiser hd 598 open back : Great positional audio, good sound, very comfortable for long uses. $170 USD



https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD...eywords=hd+598



Mod mic: Awesome sounding mic, there are cheaper options but not by much. you get what you pay for. $ 50 USD



https://www.amazon.com/Antlion-Audio...mod%2Bmic&th=1



FX-Audio Dac X6: Entry level DAC + AMP for headphones w/ audio out for speakers etc so you can use just the DAC $65 USD



https://www.amazon.com/FX-Audio-Opti...o+dac+x6&psc=1


Headphones Open: 

https://www.skroutz.gr/s/3939161/AKG...se=AKG+K612pro

----------- Top sound scene and very good sound quality - clean but a little weak bass-difficult to reinforce

https://www.skroutz.gr/s/423179/Sennheiser-HD-518.html

----------------- Cheap and with great scope to improve their sound through EQ. Decent bass. Easy to reinforce.

https://www.skroutz.gr/s/9926057/Sennheiser-HD-559.html

-------- Same sequence as previous ones. Easy to reinforce. Very good sound quality other than bass.

Headphones:

https://www.skroutz.gr/s/4207515/Bey...T-990-Pro.html

------------ Very good bass and performance in general. Somewhat difficult to reinforce.

For the above headphones, Sonarworks has sound enhancement filters, except HD559, for the time being. Already I can filter for DT 990pro and AKG K612pro. If you want to go to the more expensive sennheiser that is the HD598, I also have filters for them.

https://www.sonarworks.com/truefi/headphones


so what is the best thing to buy??
as i told you i want the headphones for game music and movies

for games the headphone must be close or open??

can you tell me the difference and which is the best??


----------



## mikerrr

B: $150-$300

AKG K612 Pro
AKG K701 (K702)
AKG Q701
Astro A40 (*headset*)
Astro A50 (*wireless headset*)
Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus / Custom Game (headset variant)
Beyerdynamic DT770 (Pro 80 ohm)
Beyerdynamic DT880 (Premium)
Beyerdynamic DT990 (Premium)
Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd Gen (*headset*)
Beyerdynamic T51i
Monster DNA On Ear
Monster DNA Pro
Philips Fidelio X1
Philips Fidelio X2
Sennheiser GAME ONE (*headset*)
Sennheiser HD598
Sennheiser PC360 (*headset*)
Skullcandy PLYR 1 (*wireless headset*)
Sony MA900
Tritton AX Pro (true 5.1 *headset*)
Yuin G1A

A: $300+
AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition
AKG K712 Pro
Audeze LCD-2
Beyerdynamic T70
Denon D7000
Fostex TH-600
HiFiMAN HE-4
HiFiMAN HE-400
Koss ESP-950
MrSpeakers Alpha Dog
MrSpeakers Ether C 1.1
MrSpeakers Mad Dog v.3.2
Sennheiser HD650
Shure SRH1540
Shure SRH1840
Stax SR-407
Ultrasone Pro 2900
Ultrasone Pro 900



so  from all  these  which is  the  best??



can  you tell me  which  headseats  with prizes  from 150 -300 + are  the  best?

can  you  suggested me some  choises  with  headseats  with with prizes  from 150 -300 +;;;


----------



## sumpao

Hey guy. I have a problem with  Microphone here want your help

I use my AKG Q701 with my dac/amp with ps4 pro.

Now I have a question I don't have a microphone.

I plan to buy.

1. Mod mic4 which they said cannot fit my ps4 controller and need what Y adapter to work properly

2. An cheap usb mic from Aliexpress.

https://th.aliexpress.com/item/Ando...131f-4c83-be9d-5dcba9009230&priceBeautifyAB=0

3. Any suggestion from you guy.


Thanks.


----------



## pcprincipal

@Mad Lust Envy 

Hey there! 
Stillhart who has been very helpful in giving me recommendations so far, directed me to your thread in order to get some advice on my current setup.

Will try to keep it simple and just give you a quick idea of what I have currently: 
TV: Samsung KS9500 (single cable connected to a OneConnect box that has all inputs: HDMI and optical)
Soundbar : Samsung connected using HDMI ARC to the oneconnect.
Consoles : PS4 Pro and Xbox One X

I just received yesterday both my new headphone and DAC/AMP (perfect timing). It's a DT770 Pro 80, and SMSL Sanskrit 6th + SMSL sApII.

The way I set everything up right now is as follow :
OneConnect to DAC using optical, DAC to Amp using RCA.

I switched sound output from the TV to optical, switched from Bitstream to PCM (otherwise was just getting noise out of the headphone) and I was good to go. 
Brief tests on the TV apps (youtube and netflix) gave some great results. 

Next on the table was console gaming of course. I played some God of War, Resident Evil 7 and immediately noticed that the Virtual Surround effect that I had with my previous headset was somewhat diminished. Sound (voices, sfx, music) are all great but I feel that I can't tell where enemies are positioned anymore. In a game like RE7, this is quite a nope situation as you can imagine 

What do you recommend I do? Get a dedicated "gaming" dac/amp for the consoles? Something like the DSS2 or BlasterX G5 ? Or is there something that I can do with my current setup ?  I don't really care about the mic as I hardly play multiplayer games. So my focus is ideally on a setup that would be compatible with both my consoles and give me the best gaming experience. My previous headset was a  Lucid Sound LS40 which sounded great but recently started deteriorating more and more (plus the headset band broke in half...)

Hope you or other posts here can help out a fellow gamer! 

Cheers!


----------



## Evshrug

@mikerrr
There is no “best,” only what seems most appealing to you based on reviews. However, if you’re looking at the Sennheiser HD 5- - series, I would recommend reading reviews on the Sennheiser Game One and PC37X. High quality all-rounders with a good price value. I haven’t tried Sennheiser’s new GSP 500 or 600 headsets yet, but some have and left good impressions.

@pcprincipal
Without a DSP (Digital Signal Processor), there’s nothing to add in virtual surround. Your old Lucid Sound set had a DSP built-in, and a handful of  games will have them built-in as an option under “Headphones,” but a processor that accepts Dolby Bitstream will let you hear surround in any game, often with better quality processing than the ones included in games. You would want to look for an accessory that accepts Dolby Bitstream over optical, and either use the DAC in that device or look for an option that can output PCM over optical to your existing new DAC. 

My hands are tied about discussing the G5 or DSS2 at this point, maybe someone else can chime in about specific DSPs and DACs?


----------



## Stillhart (Jul 2, 2018)

Evshrug said:


> My hands are tied about discussing the G5 or DSS2 at this point, maybe someone else can chime in about specific DSPs and DACs?



I went into some detail on those with him in another thread.  One thing I'm not sure of is whether they ever put out that firmware patch to "fix" the G5 to work with consoles.  If so, I think it's a solid choice; cheaper than the X7 with a lot of the important functionality.

EDIT - It looks like they never did patch the G5 to work with consoles so I'd remove that as an option.  Maybe someone can comment on some of the newer stuff I haven't heard yet like GSX and TAC...


----------



## mikerrr

what  do  you  think about 
AKG K702  and  AKG K712 Pro??

will it be  good for games and  movies and music??

in  the  review of mad last envy
BECAUSE  IN THE  REVIEW  SAYS  THAT    K712  ARE VERY GOOD





Before I begin, I'd like to personally thank guide contributor and friend, Evshrug for sending these out to me for review.

The K712 Pro, the latest and greatest AKG headphone to supersede the (in)famous 7xx line (K701, K702, Q701, K702 65th Anniversary Edition being the previous models) as AKG's best mid-fi headphone. I have been wondering just how different the K712 Pro is to my dearly departed K702 65th Anniversary. Turns out, not much (I wouldn't doubt that some people would find them near identical), but there are differences, however subtle they may be. Also need to mention that my K702 Anniversary was one of the earlier ones sold that had flatter/shorter pads, which may be the main difference between the Annie and K712's sonic differences. The K712 Pro had a lot to live up to, seeing as the Annie is more or less my favorite open dynamic headphone to date.

*Build Quality:*
Rating: Great

I'll basically paste what I've said about the K702 65th Anniversary, as the build is absolutely identical to the Annie. The only differences between the color differences (Annie is gunmetal with blue bars and accents, K712 Pro is black with orange bars and accents).

Made of a durable plastic, and well thought out design, I find the build quality to be great. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse. The detachable cable is like the non-Anniversary models, which isn't the thickest I've seen, but certainly very malleable, flexible, and light. It certainly does it's job, though I would have expected a more rugged, or fancier cable for these higher priced variants.

Compared to the non-Anniversary models of the K701/K702/Q701, the headband is thinner in width when viewed from the top/bottom, with a widening of the area where the AKG branding is located. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the K712 Pro from a torture device to a very comfortable headphone. There is no padding, but it is mostly unnecessary as the headband perfectly molds to your head, distributing pressure evenly across where it rests. The bumped headbands were notorious for digging into the scalp, especially on the center one or two bumps. Why it took AKG this long to rectify this issue the vast majority of people had is beyond me, but it's finally done.

The headband also has the added benefit of allowing bigger heads to fit due to less stiffness, and more space. Prior to the K712 Pro and K702 Anniversary, I basically needed the other models to be fully extended for them to fit my head. This caused a lot of tight, downwards pressure, which in addition to the hard bumps, didn't lead to the most comfortable headband design. It took me a few days to adjust to the older models, and I didn't find them as problematic as most people still do.

The pads are the second most significant change from the older models. They are made of memory foam inside velour. Very dense and molds to your head shape MUCH more than the older model pads. This causes a better seal, which is more than likely the main reason why the sound signature is warmer, and more bassy (from my experience with using a Q701 with the Annie pads, I found the Q701 to sound 99.9% the same as the Annie, with a slightly brighter tone which may have just been driver variation).

*Accessories:*

Velvet carrying pouch: One of the best carrying pouches I've seen bundled with headphones. It's thick and feels great, though it won't protect a headphone from much except dust and scuff/scratches.
Long coiled cable (black)
Straight cable (orange) w/6.3mm screw on adapter

*Comfort:*
Rating: Amazing

As previously mentioned, due to the new headband and new pads, the K712 Pro has made a noticeable boost in comfort over the older models. The headband change is significant for comfort. The removal of the dreaded bumps would basically satisfy ANYONE who had issues with them on the older models, and even those that don't have issues with the bumps.

The pads are arguable, as the standard 7xx pads, while more firm, breathed a little easier than the new memory foam velours. In either case, neither are sweat inducing or uncomfortable, personally. The new memory foam pads molds to the shape of one's head, leading to no uneven pressure. I find the older models to be not as uncomfortable as most people would lead to believe, but the K712 Pro would more than likely satisfy those who have problems with the older pads.

The K712 pro is easily one of the most comfortable full-sized headphones I've ever worn.

*Design Issues:*

There really isn't anything to complain about with the K712 Pro. If anything, some may not particularly like how big the cups are, but that's the nature of a full-sized over ear headphone. AKG has more or less perfected their 7xx design, fixing all of the previous issues people had with them (headband bumps being the main problem). The only thing I can see improving upon this design is to add some padding underneath the currently bare headband strap, which would further drive the comfort towards perfection.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Poor

The K712 Pro is a fully open headphone, and as such, it is expected not to perform well for noise isolation/leakage. As I mention time and time again, reports of open headphone's leak tend to be severely exaggerated. Yes, you may bother someone in the same room, but never someone in another room, even with the door open. Unless you need absolute silence in the same room, open headphones don't leak so loud as to bother most people, possibly even if they were in the same room.

*Sound:*
Rating: Amazing

People will undoubtedly complain about the incremental improvements constantly being made to their 7xx drivers, but to those who haven't experienced every little upgrade (or even those who have) will find the K712 Pro to be the their strongest headphones yet based on their 7xx drivers. What you get in the K712 Pro is the most musical, and fleshed out variant, with a noticeable addition of bass, warmth, and pleasing tonality. AKG had previously made most of these improvements with the K702 65th Anniversary (aka Annie), but the Annie had some trade offs, particularly in the sense of spaciousness (not necessarily soundstage itself), and upper range clarity and detail (which were slightly lessened due to a smoother, less fatiguing upper range). The Annie was a slightly different flavor of the K712 Pro sound, with a thicker body of sound, more intimacy, and smoother, slightly more organic sound. I'm exaggerating the differences, as they are subtle, but a good ear can tell them apart.

The K712 is the perfect middle ground between the standard 7xx airy sound, and the Annie's warmer, more fluid presentation.

NOTE: I'm basing my assessment of the Annie with it's ORIGINAL memory foam pads, which AKG has since replaced with a taller memory foam. The new pads on the Annie may have closed the gap even more between the two headphones to the point where it may be harder to discern the differences in sound quality. I haven't heard the Annie with new pads, so I can't personally confirm. Just something to keep in mind, in case those with a newer Annie don't agree with what I say here.

*Bass:*
Rating: Excellent

The K712 pro's bass is quite well balanced and always present, favoring midbass over sub bass (which rolls off a little compared to the K612 Pro which maintains it's bass to very low levels, though isn't energetic and forward as the K712 Pro). The bass is full, fluid, and rich, creating some warmth and body to the meat of the K712's sound. Because the bass is very, very similar to the K702 Annie's bass, I will quote most of what I said about those, with a few edits:

Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The K712 Pro presents bass quite well. You can consider it mildly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. Overall, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.

What it improves over the standard models is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the K712 Pro will impress. Make no mistake. I've always found the Q701, and particularly, the old K701 to be slightly below neutral. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the K712 Pro. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here. If you like accurate, yet full bass, the K712 pro will impress.

*Mids:*
Rating: Great

The K712 Pro's mids sit between the 7xx's mids and the Annie's more upfront and intimate presentation. The K712's mids sound pushed back in comparison to the Annie, though not pushed back in the way of recession, but more because the soundstage is large and nothing is exactly upfront and in your face. The lower mids are aided by the lean towards bass that the K712 has, which results in a warm, and tonally realistic voicing compared to the standard 7xx and even the incredibly balanced K612 Pro, which comes of a little dry in direct comparison.

The one downside I see in the mids is that the patented AKG upper mids peak is still somewhat present, causing certain sounds to have an artificial etch to them, and seem out of place next to the K712 Pro's general warmth and smoothness. It isn't as pronounced as the standard 7xx models however, and the warm tonality and fleshed out signature of the K712 mitigate the fatigue a bit compared to the standard 7xx.

All in all, the K712's mids are more or less balanced with the rest of the sound, and are never lost or masked.

*Treble:*
Rating: Great

The K712's treble maintains a level of sparkle some found lacking on the Annie. The treble is generally smooth with some upper end peak as usual of the 7xx line, cutting off some extension as well as the fatigue that can be associated with too much treble in those ranges. The K712's treble adds some much beneficial air to the soundstage, as well as clarity and detail which isn't typical of warm/smooth headphones (which tend to roll off in the treble range).

I personally have to say that I really love the K712's treble as it isn't an everyday occurrence to find warm headphones that sparkle in the same way as the K712. I also love the original Annie's smoother, less fatiguing presentation, but it did come across more subdued. I'd say the K712's treble is generally more favorable, and more likely to please most people.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Excellent

While the original Annie had a large soundstage, the thicker body of sound and smoother treble made the soundstage sound more restricted and congested compared to the standard 7xx and K712. The K712's soundstage is spacious, and excels particularly in width. The soundstage is dimensional, holographic, and layered. The K612 Pro didn't have the same dimensionality and layering in direct comparison, despite it's large size.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Excellent

A large soundstage, generally linear balance, and great detail is a recipe for success. The K712 excels in positional cues, much like the standard 7xx line, but with more body, and fullness. One can argue that it won't be as masterful for competitive gaming focus due to the standard 7xx model's tilt towards analyzing and detail-retrieval, but the K712 doesn't give up much in the way of those things, and adds in extra immersion.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Excellent

Objectively speaking, the standard 7xx models as well as the K612 Pro have a clearer tonality over the warmer, more musical K712 Pro. That being said, the refinement, musicality, and tonality of the K712 Pro is more natural sounding and realistic in comparison. The standard 7xx sounds artificially boosted for clarity, which may be good for raw detail, but bad for enjoyment. The K712 has excellent clarity, and I don't feel like I'm losing much of anything when choosing the K712 over the standard 7xx models.

*Amping:*
Necessary

The K712 Pro doesn't require much to sound fantastic, but as with all 7xx models, they scale up with better gear and amping. I would recommend a decent desktop amp for these. That being said, I enjoyed the K712 Pro with the Fiio E12, and didn't feel I needed much more. I can easily live quite happily with the K712 Pro and FiiO E12.

*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

The K712 Pro, is among my very favorite headphones I have ever heard, and currently my favorite open dynamic for all around use, even over the Philips Fidelio X1. If you're looking for the best all-rounder under $400, the K712 is one my absolute top recommendations. While I prefer the original Annie (flatter pads) for certain things (the mids and intimacy for music), the K712 has a better sound signature due to a clearer upper range and better sense of space which will benefit a larger amount of media, including gaming.

As a cheaper alternative, you can get a standard 7xx, and if you order some K712 pads for it, it essentially becomes a cheaper Annie/K712 Pro alternative for around $100 less than the Annie and K712 normally go for. It may not be completely identical, but it will be close. You also get the benefit of having both the standard pads as well as the K712 pads for easy swapping and tonality change. Your mileage may vary as driver variation needs to be taken into account. I recommend the K702 most for this, since it has a bumpless headband, while the K701 and Q701 still have the uncomfortable bumps, though will also benefit from this pad swap in the same exact way.

*Final Impressions:*

The K712 Pro has proven to be the best mid level AKG headphone in terms of musicality, refinement, and organic tonality. Yes, it doesn't stray far from that well known 7xx sound, but it eliminates most of what people disliked about them, while adding nearly all the things that were lacking (bass, warmth, organic sound). If you happen to like the standard 7xx and wished for more warmth, bass, and musicality, with less upper mid/lower treble fatigue, the K712 Pro demands your attention. I admit I was skeptical at first, seeing how much I love the original Annie and heard that the K712 reduced the intimacy. My fears were quelled, as the K712 gained it's own benefits over the smoother, original Annie, mainly in the addition of air/less congestion and upper range clarity.

I'm actually quite in love with the K712 Pro overall, and I find it to be a great endgame headphone for those without deep pockets. It's a safe bet to say that the K712 Pro is a headphone that I can recommend to practically anyone.
Spoiler: Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)


do  you believe  by  the review that K712 Pro  are  very  good>? in  games music and  movies??


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## Stillhart (Jul 2, 2018)

@mikerrr Yes, they're very good.  I know you will be happy with any of the headphones you listed as they're all excellent gaming headphones.  It can be stressful making a choice when you don't know if it's the right one, but you should know that all of those choices are right.  Pick the one that looks the coolest or is the cheapest or whatever else is important to you as they all sound good for gaming.  

EDIT - For the record, I went with a Q701 when I first started here many moons ago.  I still use it for gaming on my Xbox.


----------



## pcprincipal

Stillhart said:


> I went into some detail on those with him in another thread.  One thing I'm not sure of is whether they ever put out that firmware patch to "fix" the G5 to work with consoles.  If so, I think it's a solid choice; cheaper than the X7 with a lot of the important functionality.
> 
> EDIT - It looks like they never did patch the G5 to work with consoles so I'd remove that as an option.  Maybe someone can comment on some of the newer stuff I haven't heard yet like GSX and TAC...



Hey man

I just ordered the DSS2 off Amazon UK. Got them for 25£ and based on the reviews, they should fit the bill until I find the Holy Grail of gaming dac/amps! The X7 was just too expensive


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart said:


> @mikerrr Yes, they're very good.  I know you will be happy with any of the headphones you listed as they're all excellent gaming headphones.  It can be stressful making a choice when you don't know if it's the right one, but you should know that all of those choices are right.  Pick the one that looks the coolest or is the cheapest or whatever else is important to you as they all sound good for gaming.



This is the right advice! You’re looking at several very good options.


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## SuperK (Jul 2, 2018)

Hello!
I've been looking at headsets now for hours and im not getting anywhere, I have no idea what to get. there's just so many.. I'm close to ordering either a HyperX Cloud II or a HyperX Cloud Alpha.. just so I get something to replace my steelseries which actually fell apart yesterday (had it for way too long and it's not even good)

I want good positional audio, or good enough, and roomy for my ears, big headphones that doesn't hurt me for long long gaming sessions. with a budget of $100 roughly..

and I read you should get open back, would it be stupid to go for the HyperX? Like would that be a waste? If I could get something else not made for gaming that is better for competetive and then sort myself a mic in another way. Though you want some "fun" sound.
I play with voice activation always.

any thoughts about this dilemma?
 Basically you have any smarter options/alternatives in mind?


----------



## Evshrug

pcprincipal said:


> Hey man
> 
> I just ordered the DSS2 off Amazon UK. Got them for 25£ and based on the reviews, they should fit the bill until I find the Holy Grail of gaming dac/amps! The X7 was just too expensive



Expensive is relative, haha! I saved for more than half a year to get ready to buy the X7 on release, but I ended up getting a review sample (and wrote my review before Earphonia, but I didn’t know about Social Media much back then). That was... several years ago? Budget is bigger now! But so far, I used the X7 the most when it comes to console gaming with headphone surround.


----------



## Evshrug

SuperK said:


> Hello!
> I've been looking at headsets now for hours and im not getting anywhere, I have no idea what to get. there's just so many.. I'm close to ordering either a HyperX Cloud II or a HyperX Cloud Alpha.. just so I get something to replace my steelseries which actually fell apart yesterday (had it for way too long and it's not even good)
> 
> I want good positional audio, or good enough, and roomy for my ears, big headphones that doesn't hurt me for long long gaming sessions. with a budget of $100 roughly..
> ...



Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!

This is a common question, and it essentially boils down to “there are many great options.” Did @AxelCloris finish his Kingston headset reviews? 

Positional audio comes from a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) like a sound card or external processor, or sometimes from processing built-in to a handful of games (Battlefield, PUBG, Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice, Overwatch for PC, and Starcraft II come to mind). Obviously games with a headphone surround mode built-in are cheapest, but they’re not in every game and usually a dedicated processor has more sophisticated surround emulation than what’s built-in to some games. If you click the link in my signature, you’ll see my DSP reviews before I had to stop writing them. If positional audio is important to you, that should be included in your budget.

The best gaming headphones under $100 (minus DSP price) is hard to find, there are a few decent options but almost universally I find them to sound a bit “cutting” and fatiguing compared to somerging nicer. That said, some headphones formerly priced at $250 and above have come way down in price, and there are great values out there.


----------



## mikerrr

can i ask you some questions  for AKG K702  and  AKG K712 Pro?

from  these 2  which  you  think is better in gaming  music and  movies??

do you believe  that AKG K702  and  AKG K712 Pro are very  old  headphones with old technology??
have  you tested  AKG K702  and  AKG K712 Pro?

also  how AKG K712 Pro performs  in  music and  games??

can you aswere me in all  these questions  please/?

and also if i buy soyndblaster  ae-5  with AKG K712 Pro do you believe  that will be  a massive  combo for  gaming  music and  movies??


----------



## mikerrr

WITH  THE REVIEW OF   Mad Lust Envy. FOR THE  DO  YOU Agree  in  everything  he SAID  WHEN HE DID  THE   REVIEW FOR  K712 Pro????



OR YOY  ARE NEGATIVE  IN HIS  REVIEWS  WITH  SOMETHING THAT  YOU DONT  AGREE WITH  HIM?? ABOUT   K712 Pro????

SO   K712 Pro    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT IS  EXCELLENT IN  EVERYTHING?


reading  this review?? from  Mad Lust Envy??



*Build Quality:*
Rating: Great

I'll basically paste what I've said about the K702 65th Anniversary, as the build is absolutely identical to the Annie. The only differences between the color differences (Annie is gunmetal with blue bars and accents, K712 Pro is black with orange bars and accents).

Made of a durable plastic, and well thought out design, I find the build quality to be great. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse. The detachable cable is like the non-Anniversary models, which isn't the thickest I've seen, but certainly very malleable, flexible, and light. It certainly does it's job, though I would have expected a more rugged, or fancier cable for these higher priced variants.

Compared to the non-Anniversary models of the K701/K702/Q701, the headband is thinner in width when viewed from the top/bottom, with a widening of the area where the AKG branding is located. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the K712 Pro from a torture device to a very comfortable headphone. There is no padding, but it is mostly unnecessary as the headband perfectly molds to your head, distributing pressure evenly across where it rests. The bumped headbands were notorious for digging into the scalp, especially on the center one or two bumps. Why it took AKG this long to rectify this issue the vast majority of people had is beyond me, but it's finally done.

The headband also has the added benefit of allowing bigger heads to fit due to less stiffness, and more space. Prior to the K712 Pro and K702 Anniversary, I basically needed the other models to be fully extended for them to fit my head. This caused a lot of tight, downwards pressure, which in addition to the hard bumps, didn't lead to the most comfortable headband design. It took me a few days to adjust to the older models, and I didn't find them as problematic as most people still do.

The pads are the second most significant change from the older models. They are made of memory foam inside velour. Very dense and molds to your head shape MUCH more than the older model pads. This causes a better seal, which is more than likely the main reason why the sound signature is warmer, and more bassy (from my experience with using a Q701 with the Annie pads, I found the Q701 to sound 99.9% the same as the Annie, with a slightly brighter tone which may have just been driver variation).

*Accessories:*

Velvet carrying pouch: One of the best carrying pouches I've seen bundled with headphones. It's thick and feels great, though it won't protect a headphone from much except dust and scuff/scratches.
Long coiled cable (black)
Straight cable (orange) w/6.3mm screw on adapter

*Comfort:*
Rating: Amazing

As previously mentioned, due to the new headband and new pads, the K712 Pro has made a noticeable boost in comfort over the older models. The headband change is significant for comfort. The removal of the dreaded bumps would basically satisfy ANYONE who had issues with them on the older models, and even those that don't have issues with the bumps.

The pads are arguable, as the standard 7xx pads, while more firm, breathed a little easier than the new memory foam velours. In either case, neither are sweat inducing or uncomfortable, personally. The new memory foam pads molds to the shape of one's head, leading to no uneven pressure. I find the older models to be not as uncomfortable as most people would lead to believe, but the K712 Pro would more than likely satisfy those who have problems with the older pads.

The K712 pro is easily one of the most comfortable full-sized headphones I've ever worn.

*Design Issues:*

There really isn't anything to complain about with the K712 Pro. If anything, some may not particularly like how big the cups are, but that's the nature of a full-sized over ear headphone. AKG has more or less perfected their 7xx design, fixing all of the previous issues people had with them (headband bumps being the main problem). The only thing I can see improving upon this design is to add some padding underneath the currently bare headband strap, which would further drive the comfort towards perfection.

*Isolation/Leakage:*
Rating: Poor

The K712 Pro is a fully open headphone, and as such, it is expected not to perform well for noise isolation/leakage. As I mention time and time again, reports of open headphone's leak tend to be severely exaggerated. Yes, you may bother someone in the same room, but never someone in another room, even with the door open. Unless you need absolute silence in the same room, open headphones don't leak so loud as to bother most people, possibly even if they were in the same room.

*Sound:*
Rating: Amazing

People will undoubtedly complain about the incremental improvements constantly being made to their 7xx drivers, but to those who haven't experienced every little upgrade (or even those who have) will find the K712 Pro to be the their strongest headphones yet based on their 7xx drivers. What you get in the K712 Pro is the most musical, and fleshed out variant, with a noticeable addition of bass, warmth, and pleasing tonality. AKG had previously made most of these improvements with the K702 65th Anniversary (aka Annie), but the Annie had some trade offs, particularly in the sense of spaciousness (not necessarily soundstage itself), and upper range clarity and detail (which were slightly lessened due to a smoother, less fatiguing upper range). The Annie was a slightly different flavor of the K712 Pro sound, with a thicker body of sound, more intimacy, and smoother, slightly more organic sound. I'm exaggerating the differences, as they are subtle, but a good ear can tell them apart.

The K712 is the perfect middle ground between the standard 7xx airy sound, and the Annie's warmer, more fluid presentation.

NOTE: I'm basing my assessment of the Annie with it's ORIGINAL memory foam pads, which AKG has since replaced with a taller memory foam. The new pads on the Annie may have closed the gap even more between the two headphones to the point where it may be harder to discern the differences in sound quality. I haven't heard the Annie with new pads, so I can't personally confirm. Just something to keep in mind, in case those with a newer Annie don't agree with what I say here.

*Bass:*
Rating: Excellent

The K712 pro's bass is quite well balanced and always present, favoring midbass over sub bass (which rolls off a little compared to the K612 Pro which maintains it's bass to very low levels, though isn't energetic and forward as the K712 Pro). The bass is full, fluid, and rich, creating some warmth and body to the meat of the K712's sound. Because the bass is very, very similar to the K702 Annie's bass, I will quote most of what I said about those, with a few edits:

Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The K712 Pro presents bass quite well. You can consider it mildly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. Overall, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.

What it improves over the standard models is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the K712 Pro will impress. Make no mistake. I've always found the Q701, and particularly, the old K701 to be slightly below neutral. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the K712 Pro. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here. If you like accurate, yet full bass, the K712 pro will impress.

*Mids:*
Rating: Great

The K712 Pro's mids sit between the 7xx's mids and the Annie's more upfront and intimate presentation. The K712's mids sound pushed back in comparison to the Annie, though not pushed back in the way of recession, but more because the soundstage is large and nothing is exactly upfront and in your face. The lower mids are aided by the lean towards bass that the K712 has, which results in a warm, and tonally realistic voicing compared to the standard 7xx and even the incredibly balanced K612 Pro, which comes of a little dry in direct comparison.

The one downside I see in the mids is that the patented AKG upper mids peak is still somewhat present, causing certain sounds to have an artificial etch to them, and seem out of place next to the K712 Pro's general warmth and smoothness. It isn't as pronounced as the standard 7xx models however, and the warm tonality and fleshed out signature of the K712 mitigate the fatigue a bit compared to the standard 7xx.

All in all, the K712's mids are more or less balanced with the rest of the sound, and are never lost or masked.

*Treble:*
Rating: Great

The K712's treble maintains a level of sparkle some found lacking on the Annie. The treble is generally smooth with some upper end peak as usual of the 7xx line, cutting off some extension as well as the fatigue that can be associated with too much treble in those ranges. The K712's treble adds some much beneficial air to the soundstage, as well as clarity and detail which isn't typical of warm/smooth headphones (which tend to roll off in the treble range).

I personally have to say that I really love the K712's treble as it isn't an everyday occurrence to find warm headphones that sparkle in the same way as the K712. I also love the original Annie's smoother, less fatiguing presentation, but it did come across more subdued. I'd say the K712's treble is generally more favorable, and more likely to please most people.

*Soundstage:*
Rating: Excellent

While the original Annie had a large soundstage, the thicker body of sound and smoother treble made the soundstage sound more restricted and congested compared to the standard 7xx and K712. The K712's soundstage is spacious, and excels particularly in width. The soundstage is dimensional, holographic, and layered. The K612 Pro didn't have the same dimensionality and layering in direct comparison, despite it's large size.

*Positioning:*
Rating: Excellent

A large soundstage, generally linear balance, and great detail is a recipe for success. The K712 excels in positional cues, much like the standard 7xx line, but with more body, and fullness. One can argue that it won't be as masterful for competitive gaming focus due to the standard 7xx model's tilt towards analyzing and detail-retrieval, but the K712 doesn't give up much in the way of those things, and adds in extra immersion.

*Clarity:*
Rating: Excellent

Objectively speaking, the standard 7xx models as well as the K612 Pro have a clearer tonality over the warmer, more musical K712 Pro. That being said, the refinement, musicality, and tonality of the K712 Pro is more natural sounding and realistic in comparison. The standard 7xx sounds artificially boosted for clarity, which may be good for raw detail, but bad for enjoyment. The K712 has excellent clarity, and I don't feel like I'm losing much of anything when choosing the K712 over the standard 7xx models.

*Amping:*
Necessary

The K712 Pro doesn't require much to sound fantastic, but as with all 7xx models, they scale up with better gear and amping. I would recommend a decent desktop amp for these. That being said, I enjoyed the K712 Pro with the Fiio E12, and didn't feel I needed much more. I can easily live quite happily with the K712 Pro and FiiO E12.

*Personal Recommendation?*

Movies, Music, In General? Yes
Gaming? Yes

The K712 Pro, is among my very favorite headphones I have ever heard, and currently my favorite open dynamic for all around use, even over the Philips Fidelio X1. If you're looking for the best all-rounder under $400, the K712 is one my absolute top recommendations. While I prefer the original Annie (flatter pads) for certain things (the mids and intimacy for music), the K712 has a better sound signature due to a clearer upper range and better sense of space which will benefit a larger amount of media, including gaming.

As a cheaper alternative, you can get a standard 7xx, and if you order some K712 pads for it, it essentially becomes a cheaper Annie/K712 Pro alternative for around $100 less than the Annie and K712 normally go for. It may not be completely identical, but it will be close. You also get the benefit of having both the standard pads as well as the K712 pads for easy swapping and tonality change. Your mileage may vary as driver variation needs to be taken into account. I recommend the K702 most for this, since it has a bumpless headband, while the K701 and Q701 still have the uncomfortable bumps, though will also benefit from this pad swap in the same exact way.

*Final Impressions:*

The K712 Pro has proven to be the best mid level AKG headphone in terms of musicality, refinement, and organic tonality. Yes, it doesn't stray far from that well known 7xx sound, but it eliminates most of what people disliked about them, while adding nearly all the things that were lacking (bass, warmth, organic sound). If you happen to like the standard 7xx and wished for more warmth, bass, and musicality, with less upper mid/lower treble fatigue, the K712 Pro demands your attention. I admit I was skeptical at first, seeing how much I love the original Annie and heard that the K712 reduced the intimacy. My fears were quelled, as the K712 gained it's own benefits over the smoother, original Annie, mainly in the addition of air/less congestion and upper range clarity.

I'm actually quite in love with the K712 Pro overall, and I find it to be a great endgame headphone for those without deep pockets. It's a safe bet to say that the K712 Pro is a headphone that I can recommend to practically anyone.
Spoiler: Fun: 8.25/10 (Great)


----------



## Evshrug

@mikerrr 
I can’t state my opinions on the AKG products anymore. I can’t say them in PM either.

Oh, by the way, when Mad wrote that review, he wrote “K7xx” to refer to “AKG’s line of K7_ _ series headphones, including the K701, K702, Q701, K702 Anniversary, K712 Pro.” Now, there actually is a product literally called the K7XX, and it’s a Massdrop.com exclusive deal on the K712 Pro.


----------



## SuperK

Evshrug said:


> Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet!
> 
> This is a common question, and it essentially boils down to “there are many great options.” Did @AxelCloris finish his Kingston headset reviews?
> 
> ...



Thanks for input, I actually have the HyperX Cloud 2 now already but I might return them I'm not sure im satisfied (possible due to EU online purchase laws)... they feel very closed off and when I speak myself I sound like im in a tunnel.. def not as much bass everywhere in-game.. maybe a bit muffled sound im not sure...

if I feel this is just shutting too much noise out from the outside world, would I feel better with an open air? I had the steel series before this.. .. 

so if I return these im actually prepared to spend more, say 150-200$ preferably .. 150ish and then get an alright mic for the rest, or a modmic and end up at $250ish..
The DSP thing might be something for future, if I'm first satisified with the feel of my headphones.

Have any recommendations for the higher budget?

I've also just come across this *Superlux HD668*

which is dirt cheap but still might suit my needs and be an entry level for me to move away from these gaming marketed headsets, you know about this one?

or maybe *Superlux HD681 EVO*

but.. I dont quite understand does open back mean sounds leak out of the headphone? wont the mic pic that up then? O.o


----------



## tmaxx123

Anyone that games on a PS4 use an x7? Did they finally add chat over usb or do you need a separate dongle to get chat audio to your PS4?

Ive been trying convince myself to get an x7 but the more i research, the more it seems it isn’t for me.


----------



## Yethal

tmaxx123 said:


> Anyone that games on a PS4 use an x7? Did they finally add chat over usb or do you need a separate dongle to get chat audio to your PS4?
> 
> Ive been trying convince myself to get an x7 but the more i research, the more it seems it isn’t for me.


Still need BT-W2 for chat


----------



## raband

Need the dongle for chat on the PS4

It's not a single use option - is overkill for that - and not cheap

It's the best thing by far to have if you have multiple uses though.

Further than that - it extends into higher end stuff invisibley.

If just for a solution for PS4 couch gaming with chat? Nah - grab a set of green neon wireless somethings that advertise for that

If after a total solution for PS4 and everything else? - and can deal with cords? - BEST THING EVER


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 7, 2018)

as i told you i did reasearch and i wan to buy the akg 712 pro because i read in alot of reviews from Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: that these headseats are very good
#
but my question is akg712 pro very good for games and music and movies?

in games will i hear every detail in one game? example K712 in music because i am hearing music all the kind of music from rock and jazz opera greek music ,, electronic music techno trance progresive psy trance and watching movies.. how performs?? you can hear all the details which have all the kind of music??

also in games like fps rpg games,, fighthing games,, horror games in all the kind of games how performs??

i mean with k712 you can hear everything in one game??i mean all the details??
like sounds ,, water.. guns.. effects?? and all the detail which one game has?>?

so how is the 

Build Quality 
Isolation/Leakage:?
bass is it good?
the Mids and Treble are very good?
Soundstage: and Positioning? are very good?
Clarity? is it good?

do you believe that are very good for games and movies and music?

also from https://antlionaudio.com/collections/modmic-for-gaming which to buy??



there are 4 kinds



which you suggested me to buy??

do you believe that AKG K712 Pro will be a massive combo for gaming music and movies??
how is Build Quality 
Isolation/Leakage:?
bass is good?
το Mids και το Treble is good??
το Soundstage: και το Positioning?in what level are??>
το Clarity? is it good?

because i want to buy the AKG K712 Pro

[merged]


----------



## mikerrr

can  you  tell me  please??


----------



## pcprincipal

Evshrug said:


> Expensive is relative, haha! I saved for more than half a year to get ready to buy the X7 on release, but I ended up getting a review sample (and wrote my review before Earphonia, but I didn’t know about Social Media much back then). That was... several years ago? Budget is bigger now! But so far, I used the X7 the most when it comes to console gaming with headphone surround.



Got my DSS2 and so far so good, very satisfied with the surround sound that I am getting on my PS4 Pro (haven't tried them on my Xbox yet). No hissing, no drop in quality as far as I can tell when compared to my DAC/AMP setup, but then again I am no pro... 
I am just glad I chose to go for the 80ohms version of the DT770 as the DSS2 is more than capable of outputting quality sound to the headphones without a need to add an amp to the equation!


----------



## mikerrr

can someone tell me  please??


----------



## WhiteHartMart

mikerrr said:


> can someone tell me  please??



They're reviewed in the first page of this threadI believe .


----------



## Trancefreak

No clue if I could make a review request for gaming, yet I'd like to see the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home wired reviewed.
It could be my all round usage headphones. 

Thank you


----------



## tmaxx123

Caved and got the x7 LE and the Bluetooth dongle since they’re on sale. I’m interested to see how my istreamer dac will compare to the x7 dac playing flac Via lightning cable. Hopefully I’ll be able to sell everything and have the x7 be the new workhorse 

I’ll report back when it gets here


----------



## Yethal

Trancefreak said:


> No clue if I could make a review request for gaming, yet I'd like to see the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home wired reviewed.
> It could be my all round usage headphones.
> 
> Thank you


Join Patreon and/or send Mad these headphones.


----------



## Stillhart

mikerrr said:


> can  you  tell me  please??



You were answered in this thread already and in PM already.  Why do you keep asking?


----------



## DasGouche

I have read several reviews on Schiit Multibit DACs and got the consensus that they were more rounded sounding. Has anyone fed one of these dacs the output of the x7 with sbx applied and thought the surround was different compared to a delta sigma dac?


----------



## Evshrug (Jul 9, 2018)

The Sound Pressure Level (SPL) is generally a better indicator of how much headroom you’ll need in your amplifier to get good volume (this stat is usually labeled under “Sensitivity” in the headphone’s specifications).

I tend to base my volume on the mids/vocals though... and the treble spike... look up how much differential there is, and be extra careful when setting the volume in games where shooting sounds might hit (or have harmonic notes that hit) the pitch right where that treble spike is. Look up safe listening volumes, consider how many more decibels the treble spike can be from the mids, and consider how frequently that pitch will play. Left my ears ringing.


----------



## mikerrr

i want  your help
someone told me that The K712 pro is good for games, but not good for music or movies because it lacks bass.

do yoy  believe this??


----------



## AppleheadMay

mikerrr said:


> i want  your help
> someone told me that The K712 pro is good for games, but not good for music or movies because it lacks bass.
> 
> do yoy  believe this??




Nope, it's a great pair of phones but it does need a powerful amp to give its best.
Not sure whaere the "lack of bass" idea comes from, it has more bass than the K702 which wasn't lacking in the fiirst place IMO, again, with a good amp.
A bit less soundsatge than the K702 though.


----------



## Evshrug

mikerrr said:


> i want  your help
> someone told me that The K712 pro is good for games, but not good for music or movies because it lacks bass.
> 
> do yoy  believe this??



Some people are bassheads, and always want more


----------



## dakanao

Would this device would the job of sending Dolby Headphone from the DSS through RCA cables to the Mojo?

https://www.cheaptech.nl/myxl-analo...tm_medium=5053499&utm_source=Channable.Google


----------



## Yethal

dakanao said:


> Would this device would the job of sending Dolby Headphone from the DSS through RCA cables to the Mojo?
> 
> https://www.cheaptech.nl/myxl-analo...tm_medium=5053499&utm_source=Channable.Google


No, Mojo does not have analog inputs.


----------



## dakanao

Yethal said:


> No, Mojo does not have analog inputs.


MLE said that an Analog to Digital converter (which is what that is), can convert the RCA signal of the DSS, into the Mojo.. I'm wondering it it'll do the conversion from the Coax/Optical input from the Mojo to the RCA out to the DSS, with that cheap device..


----------



## Yethal

dakanao said:


> MLE said that an Analog to Digital converter (which is what that is), can convert the RCA signal of the DSS, into the Mojo.. I'm wondering it it'll do the conversion from the Coax/Optical input from the Mojo to the RCA out to the DSS, with that cheap device..


Looks like it can yeah. But why would you want to do that?


----------



## mikerrr

as i told you i did reasearch and i wan to buy the akg 712 pro because i read in alot of reviews from Mad Lust Envy's Headphone Gaming Guide: that these headseats are very good
#
but my question is akg712 pro very good for games and music and movies?

in games will i hear every detail in one game? example K712 in music because i am hearing music all the kind of music from rock and jazz opera greek music ,, electronic music techno trance progresive psy trance and watching movies.. how performs?? you can hear all the details which have all the kind of music??

also in games like fps rpg games,, fighthing games,, horror games in all the kind of games how performs??

i mean with k712 you can hear everything in one game??i mean all the details??
like sounds ,, water.. guns.. effects?? and all the detail which one game has?>?

so how is the 

Build Quality 
Isolation/Leakage:?
bass is it good?
the Mids and Treble are very good?
Soundstage: and Positioning? are very good?
Clarity? is it good?

do you believe that are very good for games and movies and music?


  i will  buy  them tomorow  ///+


----------



## mikerrr

if someone has  the   k712 and  tested  please  to tell me  please


----------



## dakanao

Yethal said:


> Looks like it can yeah. But why would you want to do that?


To power my 300 ohm Sennheisers with the Mojo and get Dolby Headphone with it


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> To power my 300 ohm Sennheisers with the Mojo and get Dolby Headphone with it


Here's what you would be doing in that audio chain: Use the DSS to convert the Dolby Digital Live 7.1 into Dolby Headphone, use the DSS' DAC to convert to analog, the ADC in the product you tried to link (I only see a blank page) converts analog back to digital, and then the Mojo converts digital back to analog. To get 7.1 surround converted to Dolby Headphone, you HAVE to put the DSS at the front of the audio chain, right after your source (I assume a game console, like the PS4 or XBO?).

Even with a "theoretically perfect" ADC your final quality would be limited by the DSS' DAC before it even gets to the Mojo's DAC. And no ADC is perfect, every step of conversion is lossy. So, what @Yethal and I are trying to say is that you can never get better audio than what the DSS limits it to at the DAC stage. To power your 300 Ω Sennheisers, you might as well focus on getting a good, self-powered, low distortion amplifier, which CAN improve the performance even with the DSS in the signal chain.


----------



## Yethal

Additionally, in order for the adc to capture the sound at a reasonable volume you'd have to set DSS volume to max which will raise noise floor and distortion. And all of that noise and distortion would then be converted back to analog by Mojo.


----------



## dakanao

Evshrug said:


> Here's what you would be doing in that audio chain: Use the DSS to convert the Dolby Digital Live 7.1 into Dolby Headphone, use the DSS' DAC to convert to analog, the ADC in the product you tried to link (I only see a blank page) converts analog back to digital, and then the Mojo converts digital back to analog. To get 7.1 surround converted to Dolby Headphone, you HAVE to put the DSS at the front of the audio chain, right after your source (I assume a game console, like the PS4 or XBO?).
> 
> Even with a "theoretically perfect" ADC your final quality would be limited by the DSS' DAC before it even gets to the Mojo's DAC. And no ADC is perfect, every step of conversion is lossy. So, what @Yethal and I are trying to say is that you can never get better audio than what the DSS limits it to at the DAC stage. To power your 300 Ω Sennheisers, you might as well focus on getting a good, self-powered, low distortion amplifier, which CAN improve the performance even with the DSS in the signal chain.


This is what the product looks like on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-Analog-Digital-Converter-Adapter/dp/B005F20756


----------



## RugbyPlayer

My current set up is a soundblaster Zx and mr speakers mad dogs - not sure what version. Have there been significant advances made that are big improvements? would prefer an internal card as opposed to USB


----------



## Evshrug

dakanao said:


> This is what the product looks like on Amazon:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/SANOXY-Analog-Digital-Converter-Adapter/dp/B005F20756



OK.
It still wouldn’t let you reap the benefits of a Mojo. If a Creative Sound Blaster Omni (PC only) or X7, Asus sound cards (PC only), or computer program aren’t a fit for you, there isn’t any way you will be able to use the Mojo to any actual benefit for the $$$ you will put into it.

You would be far better off investing in a decent amp, and you could always use the amp with a Mojo or any other DAC later if something changes.


----------



## tmaxx123 (Jul 13, 2018)

Got my x7 and bt-w2 yesterday. Also have 2 x ss3602 and 2x 3601 on the way. 
I’m having issues syncing the bt-w2 with my x7. I’ve been Holding the button on the dongle seeing it flash then holding then BT button on the x7 after for 2 seconds.

PS4 recognizes the dongle just fine But the x7 doesn’t want to sync to it. My phone syncs to the x7 without issue. And I’m  using the correct input w2 and output w2 settings.

Anyone experienced this?


----------



## Evshrug

@tmaxx123 
Yeah, I just tried re-pairing the X7 and BT-W2 a bunch of times, eventually I got a connection lock with no issues after that.

After my X7 left in anticipation of new toys, I had to repeat the pairing process a few times on my BT-W2 to get it to pair with some Bluetooth headphones I had, but then it worked well without issue.


----------



## tmaxx123

Evshrug said:


> @tmaxx123
> Yeah, I just tried re-pairing the X7 and BT-W2 a bunch of times, eventually I got a connection lock with no issues after that.
> 
> After my X7 left in anticipation of new toys, I had to repeat the pairing process a few times on my BT-W2 to get it to pair with some Bluetooth headphones I had, but then it worked well without issue.



Kept trying and eventually worked as you said lol

however I still get nasty pops and crackles over usb audio from my iPod Touch. Any remedies for this?


----------



## raband

Can the ipod connect via bluetooth to the X7?


----------



## tmaxx123

Got my sparkos in and all the settings finally figured out. Apparently the LE has a setting you have to change before the high power supply is put to use.....once I did that most issues went away. Pops every once in awhile via usb but not nearly as frequent and as bad.

Very happy with sparkos fast service. The opamps are great , if you want the best x7 experience, theyre a must buy. Price is a tad on the higher level, but its worth it IMO plus you can’t go wrong supporting quality products like sparkos


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 15, 2018)

I dunno, I found the Sparkos a bit sibilant compared to the stock op amp. Like more edgy.




Do you guys want me to review the PortaPro wireless? I feel it'd be a bit derivative of my other KSC35/Sportapro review as it just sounds 99% the same.

I guess I can at the very least talk about the wireless strengths and whatever little changes.

Also, I've been using it with this:

https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Blu...ransmitter&dpPl=1&dpID=51PJ-83cjPL&ref=plSrch

Hopefully that link works lol.

Using the Creative X7 - optical out - the Avantree transmitter's optical in - transmit to Portapro wireless

This would also probably be really cool for the Mobius.

I literally have been in my Portapro wireless 99% of the time I use headphones now. With the KSC75 ear clips of course.

Make sure when you're using the X7 regularly (as in not the transmitter), keep the transmitter away, as it causes interference, and you'll get noise.


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno, I found the Sparkos a bit sibilant compared to the stock op amp. Like more edgy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wouldn’t consider the sparkos too sibilant. The soundstage improves greatly! The imaging, as well as instrument separation, make listening extremely enjoyable so far. I have a lot more listening too do, however. What opamps do you prefer?

That avantree transmitter looks pretty useful actually, may have to give it a shot....


----------



## mikerrr

i want  to  buy  one 

Gaming Headset Headphone Stand Holder which  you  sugested me  to buy?? > for  my  akg 712  pro


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why do you post the same question three times? 

Buy one of these: http://www.rooms-design.de/


----------



## mikerrr

what is  your  opinion for  *Gravity HPHTT-01B   is it  good?*


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, it's probably among the very best on this globe. BUY IT NOW BEFORE IT GOES OUT OF STOCK

BUUUUUUY NOW


----------



## HairyHook

Fegefeuer said:


> yes, it's probably among the very best on this globe. BUY IT NOW BEFORE IT GOES OUT OF STOCK
> 
> BUUUUUUY NOW


Are you sure that stand is going to be good for games and music and movies? 

PS: I felt a little bit of humor was needed after the same question was asked 25 times.


----------



## sumpao

Hey I plan to buy either Audeze Mobius

or Aeon  flow open which one is more good for gaming


----------



## AxelCloris

Those are two quite different headphones. How do you plan to use them?


----------



## thewind32

sumpao said:


> Hey I plan to buy either Audeze Mobius
> 
> or Aeon  flow open which one is more good for gaming



By this point, someone interested in the Mobius should wait for the first wave of backers to receive their orders and give their impressions on it.
Unless money is entirely a non-issue for you I guess.


----------



## sumpao

I plan to use them with my PS4 and PC.

I will choose one of those can.


----------



## mikerrr

what is your opinion for *Gravity HPHTT-01B is it good?*
*
you  dont  know  if  it is  good??

*


----------



## raband

I think they might be able to hold up headphones.

May want to email their support though to be sure.


----------



## Stillhart

I find the AEON open to be a little on the bassy and closed-sounding side for gaming.  I love the meaty sound for movies but I prefer something more transparent and open for gaming.

I haven't heard the Moebius yet so I can't say how it compares.


----------



## Stillhart

Hey everyone!  What's the current "best" setup for Xbone?  Is there anything that allows you NOT to plug your mic into the controller yet?  I'm so sick of my wire tangle that I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and buy a stupid Astro/Skullcandy all-in-one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I need a cigarette after the past few weeks of 'stuff' going on in here. I don't smoke.


----------



## Evshrug

Stillhart said:


> Hey everyone!  What's the current "best" setup for Xbone?  Is there anything that allows you NOT to plug your mic into the controller yet?  I'm so sick of my wire tangle that I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and buy a stupid Astro/Skullcandy all-in-one.



You mean, OTHER than pulling a Kinect close to your seating position? I’m not as up on Xbox peripherals as I once was, but while I often see “works with PS4” labels I haven’t seen much investment in providing for the XBOne.


----------



## Stillhart

Evshrug said:


> You mean, OTHER than pulling a Kinect close to your seating position? I’m not as up on Xbox peripherals as I once was, but while I often see “works with PS4” labels I haven’t seen much investment in providing for the XBOne.


I did some research and there are a few new headsets that use the proprietary Xbox Wireless protocol (like the controller) to connect with no dongle or anything.  Unfortunately, one is from Razer and one is from Turtle Beach.  I'm hoping this third one, Lucidsound, ends up being alright.  It's coming out in a month or two.  Vlad reviewed the non-dongle-free version and said it sounded pretty not bad for a gaming headset (which is pretty good!).  I might have to grab one to review when it comes out.


----------



## Yethal

Stillhart said:


> Hey everyone!  What's the current "best" setup for Xbone?  Is there anything that allows you NOT to plug your mic into the controller yet?  I'm so sick of my wire tangle that I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and buy a stupid Astro/Skullcandy all-in-one.


Xbox compatible Mixamp connected via stream out to another headphone amp?


----------



## Stillhart

Yethal said:


> Xbox compatible Mixamp connected via stream out to another headphone amp?


I'm already doing that, but between the mixamp, the amp, and the y splitters to get everything working correctly, it's a cabling nightmare.  There are several "wireless" solutions that all still require a wire from the headset to the controller for voice chat.  Only the few models I specified above seem to offer TRUE wireless.


----------



## Yethal

Stillhart said:


> I'm already doing that, but between the mixamp, the amp, and the y splitters to get everything working correctly, it's a cabling nightmare.  There are several "wireless" solutions that all still require a wire from the headset to the controller for voice chat.  Only the few models I specified above seem to offer TRUE wireless.


Xbox requires an authentication chip within the usb device for it to work. That's why only a few models offer true wireless. Uf only the receiver from Astro a50 cpuld be turned into a standalone device.


----------



## Fotopaul

Yes the chip is required for wireless chat audio. 

Sadly all of the solutions who has incorporated it does not offer the best headphones with their system. Astro's headset leaves a lot to be desired.. 

It's a shame there isn't a more straightforward way to use the Sounblaster X7 with XB1 and chat audio.  If where I would get one in a heartbeat.


----------



## sumpao

After a long research I bought one of AKG K712 for play game. I plan to buy AKG K701 also.

It very cheap right now.

For Mobius I will wait and see what is they bring to the table.

As per Aeon Flow open after see many review the soundstage is not big so may be next time.

Thanks guy


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

sumpao said:


> After a long research I bought one of AKG K712 for play game. I plan to buy AKG K701 also.
> 
> It very cheap right now.
> 
> ...


I have the K712's myself. I've been using them for about a year and a half now and I have only good things to say about them. They really are great all-rounders for gaming.


----------



## Evshrug

sumpao said:


> After a long research I bought one of AKG K712 for play game. I plan to buy AKG K701 also.
> 
> It very cheap right now.
> 
> ...





SteezyRayVaughan said:


> I have the K712's myself. I've been using them for about a year and a half now and I have only good things to say about them. They really are great all-rounders for gaming.



I can’t state an opinion on AKG publicly anymore, but my posting history (especially in this thread) will show that I had various higher end models for a total of 5 or 6 years, if that tells you anything without me saying anything


----------



## ZzBOG

Anyone can weigh in if GSX1000 would be an upgrade from Creative Omni? Or I will be just wasting my time and money

I want better surround sound. I am using Q701


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 21, 2018)

Doesn't the Omni use SBX? Then no, there's no reason to upgrade. SBX and GSX surround are VERY similar. Having heard a variety of surround emulators, there's not really gonna be much better than what those two offer. Until we start getting vertical audio piped down into virtual surround, 7.1 downmixing can only do so much.

I have yet to hear 'proper' Dolby Atmos Headphone so I don't wanna say anything about that one. I tried getting it to work on my PC with a free trial but no matter what I did, my PC just wouldn't enable it even when I turn it on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I figure I'd let you guys know, so you can be excited: Audeze is sending me a finalized version of the Audeze Mobius this week. That means (hopefully), that release is imminent. I'll be updating my original review/impressions of it to highlight and reflect any changes (likely in bold or italicized sentences). Considering I don't expect any major sound sig changes, I'll focus on eq presets, the windows software for the Mobius, and whatnot.


----------



## mikerrr

i bought  akg  712  pro  do  you believe  that  akg  712  pro  will be  very  good  for  games music and  movies??

i havent tested  yet


----------



## ironmonkey27

mikerrr said:


> i bought  akg  712  pro  do  you believe  that  akg  712  pro  will be  very  good  for  games music and  movies??
> 
> i havent tested  yet




You could probably give them a listen quicker than posting here again and see for yourself. Headphones are pretty subjective after all


----------



## Stillhart

mikerrr said:


> i bought  akg  712  pro  do  you believe  that  akg  712  pro  will be  very  good  for  games music and  movies??
> 
> i havent tested  yet


No, they're terrible.  You've made a horrible mistake that will haunt you forever.  Throw them in the trash, then burn the trash, then burn the ashes.  


mikerrr said:


> i bought  akg  712  pro  do  you believe  that  akg  712  pro  will be  very  good  for  games music and  movies??
> 
> i havent tested  yet


They're amazing!  The only problem I have is that every time I use them I have to change my shorts.  It's very confusing.


mikerrr said:


> i bought  akg  712  pro  do  you believe  that  akg  712  pro  will be  very  good  for  games music and  movies??
> 
> i havent tested  yet


They're just alright.  Plenty of better headphones out there, plenty worse.  I'm sure you'll be fine.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Audeze is sending me a finalized version of the Audeze Mobius this week.


How does one properly convey jealousy on the internet?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AxelCloris said:


> How does one properly convey jealousy on the internet?



You can ban me for 24 hours, and say it's because I was discussing industry secrets.


----------



## pietcux

AxelCloris said:


> How does one properly convey jealousy on the internet?


Come on, you had your take already!


----------



## AxelCloris

pietcux said:


> Come on, you had your take already!


Nuh uh, I had a _taste_.  The ones we received for the Head-Fi video were early prototypes, the same version that MLE received. They weren't production ready. The body wasn't production finished, the headband wasn't the one they're using in the final product, it was missing quoted features, and more features were added later in production. We also didn't have access to the software management that ships with the headphone. I so very much want to run a production version through the wringer. Skyrim is calling to me...



Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can ban me for 24 hours, and say it's because I was discussing industry secrets.


----------



## Yethal

AxelCloris said:


> Nuh uh, I had a _taste_.  The ones we received for the Head-Fi video were early prototypes, the same version that MLE received. They weren't production ready. The body wasn't production finished, the headband wasn't the one they're using in the final product, it was missing quoted features, and more features were added later in production. We also didn't have access to the software management that ships with the headphone. I so very much want to run a production version through the wringer. Skyrim is calling to me...


Won't you receive a finalized version anyway?


----------



## mikerrr

you mean  that  akg  712  pro arent  good>>?? because  yoy said  that No
, they're terrible. You've made a horrible mistake that will haunt you forever. Throw them in the trash, then burn the trash, then burn the ashes.
They're just alright. Plenty of better headphones out there, plenty worse. I'm sure you'll be fine.

*Mad Lust Envy  said  very  good reviws for akg 712  pro..*


----------



## Yethal

mikerrr said:


> you mean  that  akg  712  pro arent  good>>?? because  yoy said  that No
> , they're terrible. You've made a horrible mistake that will haunt you forever. Throw them in the trash, then burn the trash, then burn the ashes.
> They're just alright. Plenty of better headphones out there, plenty worse. I'm sure you'll be fine.
> 
> *Mad Lust Envy  said  very  good reviws for akg 712  pro..*


I'm not 100% sure and I may be wrong and I might be delusional but there is a tiny, small chance that Stillhart might've been trolling you. Again, just a hunch.


----------



## Stillhart

Yethal said:


> I'm not 100% sure and I may be wrong and I might be delusional but there is a tiny, small chance that Stillhart might've been trolling you. Again, just a hunch.


Stillhart has finally put him on ignore after the 15th time seeing the same question (the most recent two being in PM... AGAIN).  I like being helpful, but not feeding trolls trumps being helpful.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

i ask  my  apologizes   stillhart.
i am not troll

i mean that i did the corect  chooise  for  i bought akg 712  pro

this  i mean

one person told me  that i did wrong that i  bought  akg 712  pro with  the soundcard ae-5



because he  told me  that  Sennheiser HD 700 are  better  from  akg 712 pro 

one person told me  that i did wrong that i  bought  akg 712  pro with  the soundcard ae-5



because he  told me  that  Sennheiser HD 700 are  better  from  akg 712 pro 



what is  your  opinion for  this??


----------



## pietcux

mikerrr said:


> one person told me  that i did wrong that i  bought  akg 712  pro with  the soundcard ae-5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi mikerr,
do you already have the K712?


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

yes  i bought  them are  very fantastic

but i dont know why  he  told me  this  that

one person told me that i did wrong that i bought akg 712 pro with the soundcard ae-5



because he told me that Sennheiser HD 700 are better from akg 712 pro

because he told me that Sennheiser HD 700 are better from akg 712 pro



what is your opinion for this??


----------



## pietcux

mikerrr said:


> but i dont know why  he  told me  this  that
> 
> one person told me that i did wrong that i bought akg 712 pro with the soundcard ae-5
> 
> ...


Both headphones are very good for gaming, the rest is a matter of everyone's own taste. If you like them a lot, do no longer ask, just game and enjoy.  You can ask 50 different persons and get 50 different answers. That is life. But the choice you made is a very good one.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

i understaND  WHAT  YOU MEAN
BUT  DO  YOU BELIEVE THAt   Sennheiser HD 700 are better from akg 712 pro in all terms>>??

i am asking this like a  general  question

or  you believe that these 2 are in the same levels?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I think the HD700 is superior in tectonic tactical displacement of enemies in multiplayer games due to its more resonant housing which causes distress and panic, and the K712 is better in having the psychological edge because it supports bat frequency equalization, thus helping you to find the routed, displaced enemy faster because of the microvibrations of his distressed heart. Unfortunately you can only wear one headphone.


----------



## Stillhart

Fegefeuer said:


> I think the HD700 is superior in tectonic tactical displacement of enemies in multiplayer games due to its more resonant housing which causes distress and panic, and the K712 is better in having the psychological edge because it supports bat frequency equalization, thus helping you to find the routed, displaced enemy faster because of the microvibrations of his distressed heart. Unfortunately you can only wear one headphone.


If you reroute a tachyon beam through the main deflector dish, you should be able to equalize the impedance load long enough to wear half of each headphone and get vertical surround.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

so   YOU BELIEVE THAt Sennheiser HD 700 are better from akg 712 pro in all terms>>??

because  hd700 are  more expensive??

i  am asking  these  things as  general question


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> I think the HD700 is superior in tectonic tactical displacement of enemies in multiplayer games due to its more resonant housing which causes distress and panic, and the K712 is better in having the psychological edge because it supports bat frequency equalization, thus helping you to find the routed, displaced enemy faster because of the microvibrations of his distressed heart. Unfortunately you can only wear one headphone.



You sir, are a fiend. XD


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

which  from  these  are  better??

akg  712  pro or sentheizer  h700 ??
because  this person told me  that i did mistake for akg 712  pro
and he told me that sentheizer  h700 are  better  from akg 712  pro

do  you believe  that sentheizer h700 are  better  from  akg 712 pro in everything??
Mids  and Treble 
 Soundstage:  Positioning?
 Clarity? 
bass
quality??


----------



## ironmonkey27

mikerrr said:


> do  you believe  that sentheizer h700 are  better  from  akg 712 pro in everything??
> Mids  and Treble
> Soundstage:  Positioning?
> Clarity?
> ...




Mikerrr - you’re a twisted genius. 

Yes to all of the above.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 22, 2018)

you mean  that  h700 are better from akg 712 pro in everything??

dude i aSKED  SOME QUESTIONS AND  YOU ARE TELLING ME  THAT t h700 are better from akg 712 pro in everything


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MIKERR, STOP ASKING QUESTIONS. ENJOY THE K712. IT IS FANTASTIC. YOU DO NOT NEED ANY OTHER HEADPHONE, OK? ALRIGHT. STOP SPAMMING COMMENTS HERE.


----------



## mikerrr

OK  MAD LUST ENVY

I KNOW THAT  I  HAVE  VERY  GOOD  HEAdphones and  thanks that helping me  in all these  headphones which you have reviews i decided to  choose  the akg  712 pro

and  thanks.,


----------



## AxelCloris

Yethal said:


> Won't you receive a finalized version anyway?


Yeah, eventually. Just jealous that MLE has shipping confirmation already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AxelCloris said:


> Yeah, eventually. Just jealous that MLE has shipping confirmation already.



Knowing where you work, I wouldn't be surprised if you get it first.


----------



## mikerrr

i have one last  question  do  you believe  that the dac and  amplier  from my  soundblaster  ae-5 is   very  good  for to  drive  the   akg 712 pro?

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/creative-sound-blaster-ae-5-hp.php

can  you  check this  please??


----------



## sumpao

mikerrr said:


> i have one last  question  do  you believe  that the dac and  amplier  from my  soundblaster  ae-5 is   very  good  for to  drive  the   akg 712 pro?
> 
> https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/creative-sound-blaster-ae-5-hp.php
> 
> can  you  check this  please??



What is that website is that a legit one?


----------



## Fegefeuer

mikerrr said:


> i have one last  question  do  you believe  that the dac and  amplier  from my  soundblaster  ae-5 is   very  good  for to  drive  the   akg 712 pro?
> 
> https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/creative-sound-blaster-ae-5-hp.php
> 
> can  you  check this  please??



Beautiful jaggies, so yes. 

GOOD CHOICE MIKERRR. NOW START PLAYING GAMES AND STOP BOTHERING ABOUT WHAT YOU BOUGHT. IT'S GREAT.


----------



## Snikerdewdle

Hey guys, what headphones would you recommend for gaming that don't require an amp to perform well. I have been using Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus for about three and a half years but want to switch it up and try out some open backed headphones now that I no longer have a roommate. Any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## SteezyRayVaughan

Snikerdewdle said:


> Hey guys, what headphones would you recommend for gaming that don't require an amp to perform well. I have been using Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus for about three and a half years but want to switch it up and try out some open backed headphones now that I no longer have a roommate. Any help would be much appreciated.


You can't go wrong with the Philips Fidelio X2. A great performing open back headphone for gaming and music that doesn't really need any additional amping.


----------



## mikerrr

i mean   the dac and amplier from my soundblaster ae-5 is very good for to drive the akg 712 pro?


----------



## Yethal

mikerrr said:


> i mean   the dac and amplier from my soundblaster ae-5 is very good for to drive the akg 712 pro?


Can't you just listen and judge for yourself?


----------



## mikerrr

i can


----------



## mikerrr

i am asking  about  dac and amplier from my soundblaster ae-5  is very good for to drive the akg 712 pro?

becayse  you have  more experience  from me..


----------



## pietcux

mikerrr said:


> i am asking  about  dac and amplier from my soundblaster ae-5  is very good for to drive the akg 712 pro?
> 
> becayse  you have  more experience  from me..


You could have a little more trust into your own judgement. I mean the Greek people invented the democracy so long ago....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Snikerdewdle said:


> Hey guys, what headphones would you recommend for gaming that don't require an amp to perform well. I have been using Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus for about three and a half years but want to switch it up and try out some open backed headphones now that I no longer have a roommate. Any help would be much appreciated.


Try the Sennheiser 558 or 598 or Game One or PC37X. Painfully easy to drive. They're worth their cost especially since no amp is needed. I use my Game One sometimes directly from my PS4 controller.


----------



## Evshrug

Snikerdewdle said:


> Hey guys, what headphones would you recommend for gaming that don't require an amp to perform well. I have been using Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus for about three and a half years but want to switch it up and try out some open backed headphones now that I no longer have a roommate. Any help would be much appreciated.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Try the Sennheiser 558 or 598 or Game One or PC37X. Painfully easy to drive. They're worth their cost especially since no amp is needed. I use my Game One sometimes directly from my PS4 controller.



I use my Sennheiser PC37X (from Massdrop.com) for gaming on my iPad (no extra amp), connected to my PS4 controller or a Sound Blaster E5 connected to my PS4, or plugged into my computer with a GSX 1000 for surround. I also use my PC37X and HD 1 Bluetooth wireless in-ear for conference calls, because they have the best microphones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

+1 for the PC37X, such a good deal. Hope the Massdrop never ends so more people take off from Turtle Beaches, Astros and HyperX


----------



## romanrex (Jul 25, 2018)

How does check bundle AE-5 and 712 pro?

Examples for check.

You can go to On-line service “Power and Sensitivity”. Add to compare AE-5 and AKG 712.







http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/param5.php?&idhp=52&hp=2&id=1192

On the graph horizontal upper scale indicates the impedances of the headphones in ohms, which are connected to the amplifier. The right vertical scale indicates the voltage in decibels (dBV).

You can see point in the graph. This point is the recommended voltage level for AKG 712. It is 13.6 dBV (4.7 Vrms) on the vertical scale.  AKG 712 reproduces a sound at 90 dB SPL at 13.6 dBV input.

We see point above maximum level for AE-5.We can not get a louder sound in the bundle AE-5 with AKG k712 pro.

But, each man lisen different music and lisen of different volume, optimal for him. One human say - AE-5 with AKG 712 pro is a loud bundle, another human say is a quiet bundle. Who is right?

More precision answer can give compared known bundle vs AE-5 with AKG k712 pro.

Example, we have got X-Fi (base model), iPhone 5S and Audio-Technica ATH-M50, Kennerton Odin MK3, Sennheiser HD 600

Add this models in graph and choose «Max» option.






http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro...dhp3=819&class=h&hp=2&id=1192&id1=843&id2=850

You can see four point (headphones) and three curves (amplifiers).

*90 dB SPL is*

Audio-Technica ATH-M50 need -3.9 dBV voltage for 90 dB SPL.
Kennerton Odin MK3 need -0.5 dBV voltage for 90 dB SPL.
Sennheiser HD 600 need  4.9 dBV voltage for 90 dB SPL.
AKG K 712 need 13.6 dBV voltage for 90 dB SPL.


AKG K 712 is quieter  Audio-Technica ATH-M50 on (13.6 - -3.9) 17.5 dB

AKG K 712 is quieter  Kennerton Odin MK3 on (13.6 - -0.5) 14.1 dB

AKG K 712 is quieter  Sennheiser HD 600 on (13.6 - 4.9) 8.7 dB



*The maximum voltage from the sources for Audio-Technica ATH-M50 (38.4 ohm)*

Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 is 14.2 dBV
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer is 0.9 dBV
Apple iPhone 5S is -0.3 dBV
*Maximum SPL in the music for Audio-Technica ATH-M50*

90 dB SPL at -3.9 dBV and (90 + 14.2 - -3.9 = 18.1 + 90) *108.1* dB SPL at  14.2 dBV from Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5
90 dB SPL at -3.9 dBV and *94.8*  dB SPL at  0.9 dBV from Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
90 dB SPL at -3.9 dBV and *93.6*  dB SPL at  -0.3 dBV from Apple iPhone 5S


*The maximum voltage from the sources for Kennerton Odin MK3 (43.6 ohm)*

Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 is 14.2 dBV
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer is 1.4 dBV
Apple iPhone 5S is -0.2 dBV
*Maximum SPL in the music for Kennerton Odin MK3*

90 dB SPL at -0.5 dBV and (90 + 14.2 - -0.5 = 14.7 + 90)  *104.7* dB SPL at  14.2 dBV from Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5
90 dB SPL at -0.5 dBV and *91.9*  dB SPL at  1.4 dBV from Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
90 dB SPL at -0.5 dBV and *90.3*  dB SPL at  -0.2 dBV from Apple iPhone 5S


*The maximum voltage from the sources for Sennheiser HD 600 (352.2 ohm)*

Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 is 14.4 dBV
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer is 5.7 dBV
Apple iPhone 5S is 0.1 dBV
*Maximum SPL in the music for Sennheiser HD 600*

90 dB SPL at 4.9 dBV and (90 + 14.4 - 4.9 = 9.5 + 90)  *99.5* dB SPL at  14.4 dBV from Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5
90 dB SPL at 4.9 dBV and *90.8*  dB SPL at  5.7 dBV from Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
90 dB SPL at 4.9 dBV and *85.2* dB SPL at  0.1 dBV from Apple iPhone 5S


*The maximum voltage from the sources for AKG K 712 (68.5 ohm)*

Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5 is 14.3 dBV
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer is 2.9dBV
Apple iPhone 5S is -0.1dBV
*Maximum SPL in the music for AKG K 712*

90 dB SPL at 13.6 dBV and (90 + 14.3 - 13.6 = 9.5 + 90)  *90.7* dB SPL at  14.3 dBV from Creative Sound BlasterX AE-5
90 dB SPL at 13.6 dBV and *79.3*  dB SPL at  2.9 dBV from Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
90 dB SPL at 13.6 dBV and *76.3* dB SPL at  -0.1 dBV from Apple iPhone 5S


*Till now compare bundles!*


ATH-M50 + X-Fi  is 94.8  dB SPL
K 712 + AE-5 is 90.7 dB SPL
ATH-M50 + X-Fi  is win. It is louder on 4.1 dB!




HD 600 + X-Fi  is 90.8  dB SPL
K 712 + AE-5 is 90.7 dB SPL
Difference is 0.1 dB!




Odin + 5S is 90.3  dB SPL
K 712 + AE-5 is 90.7 dB SPL
Difference between bundles is 0.4 dB, but difference between sources 14.4 dB!

AKG is low-sensivity headphones.

*How  to understand dB?*





You can play sound in foobar2000 and use volume control in "dB" in player.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy




----------



## mindbomb (Jul 25, 2018)

The voltage seems high because he's talking about 90db average, 110db peak.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Are there any good internal Soundcards these days? Most I see here talk about the x7 but id really prefer internal. Currently have a soundblaster ZX that I'm trying to replace


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 25, 2018)

aLL  THESE  THINGS MEANS  THAT  SOUNDBLASTER AE.5 CANT HANDLE  THE  ΑΚG   712  PRO/?

OR ALL  THESE  THINGS MEANS THAT  AKG 712 IS  NOT VERY  POWERFULL?? AS HEAdphone?


----------



## Stillhart

RugbyPlayer said:


> Are there any good internal Soundcards these days? Most I see here talk about the x7 but id really prefer internal. Currently have a soundblaster ZX that I'm trying to replace


What don't you like about your current one?  That would help us recommend something more appropriate.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Stillhart said:


> What don't you like about your current one?  That would help us recommend something more appropriate.



I feel like the surround effect isn't very good primarily, I cant really here any separation when I listen to the video in the software, harder to even notice in games. The headphones I'm driving are some Mad dogz, not entirely sure what version


----------



## Stillhart

RugbyPlayer said:


> I feel like the surround effect isn't very good primarily, I cant really here any separation when I listen to the video in the software, harder to even notice in games. The headphones I'm driving are some Mad dogz, not entirely sure what version


Fair enough, some of the surround DSPs work better for some people than others.  Out of curiosity, have you messed with the settings on the DSP to increase the surround effect and see if that helps?  The Mad Dogs (from memory) are very warm and very closed... probably one of the less good headphones you could use for gaming.  It's possible that replacing the sound card might not help at all and the issue is more with the headphones.  Replacing them with something with better treble and sound stage might be something to consider also.

Back to your actual question, I know there's an internal Asus Xonar that uses Dolby Headphone (Xonar DG?) that seems to be well regarded.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Stillhart said:


> Fair enough, some of the surround DSPs work better for some people than others.  Out of curiosity, have you messed with the settings on the DSP to increase the surround effect and see if that helps?  The Mad Dogs (from memory) are very warm and very closed... probably one of the less good headphones you could use for gaming.  It's possible that replacing the sound card might not help at all and the issue is more with the headphones.  Replacing them with something with better treble and sound stage might be something to consider also.
> 
> Back to your actual question, I know there's an internal Asus Xonar that uses Dolby Headphone (Xonar DG?) that seems to be well regarded.



Really? I was under the impression that the mad dogs are still pretty decent headphones


----------



## Stillhart

RugbyPlayer said:


> Really? I was under the impression that the mad dogs are still pretty decent headphones


Oh they're not bad. They're a solid choice for a "fun" gaming headphone, and plenty of people like warm headphones for music.  

But if you want imaging and surround, they're pretty low on the list IMHO.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 25, 2018)

mikerrr said:


> aLL  THESE  THINGS MEANS  THAT  SOUNDBLASTER AE.5 CANT HANDLE  THE  ΑΚG   712  PRO/?
> 
> OR ALL  THESE  THINGS MEANS THAT  AKG 712 IS  NOT VERY  POWERFULL?? AS HEAdphone?



IT MEANS NOTHING. IT MEANS EVERY HEADPHONE HAS DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS TO REACH THE SAME PEAK VOLUME. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH K712 NOT BEING POWERFUL ENOUGH OR ANY SUCH NONSENSE. AGAIN, ENJOY YOUR HEADPHONE. STOP ASKING QUESTIONS. It looks like you WANT someone to tell you to get something else instead of just enjoy What you have.

YOU WILL NEVER BE HAPPY WITH WHAT YOU HAVE IF YOU'RE WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO TELL YOU THAT THERE IS BETTER OUT THERE. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER. YOUR HUNT WILL NEVER END. The k712 is not a mistake, your ae is not a mistake. use them and enjoy, ***. Don't message me asking these same damn questions. I'm not gonna answer. Your repetition is getting old. Just ENJOY WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY.

YOU WANT BETTER? GO BUY SOME HIFIMAN HEX OR AUDEZE LCD4 OR STAX, OR SENNEHSIER HD800.

IN SHORT, FOR THE MONEY YOU SPENT ON THE K712, THERE REALLY ISN'T BETTER. IT IS FANTASTIC. OK


----------



## romanrex (Jul 25, 2018)

I have got AKG K340 and AE-5. This bundle is louder AKG K712 and AE-5 by less than 1 dB. This is the same level of maximum volume. 


http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/param5.php?&idhp=52&idhp1=555&class=a&hp=2&mh4=4&ma40=40&id=1192

I have enough volume to listen to music.

In games, the volume level is reduced for AE-5. This is necessary for effects. I do not have enough volume with AKG K340 and AE-5. I recommend another headphones for AE-5 for games.

But, best quality you can give in bundle X-Fi+AE-5+K712.  X-Fi use only DSP with software connect soundcard. X-Fi do not  reduced volume level in games.


----------



## romanrex (Jul 25, 2018)

_The voltage seems high because he's talking about 90db average, 110db peak._
Yes, that's right. Here we take into account the correction for the density of the musical signal and the unevenness of the volume along the track.


----------



## sumpao

My AKG K712. Have arrived
It sound great at music.
Will test on star war battle front 2 today haha


----------



## Fegefeuer

Do you think your AKG K712 PRO is better than Mikerrr's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> Do you think your AKG K712 PRO is better than Mikerrr's?








Feggy. HOW COULD YOU?


----------



## thewind32

Fegefeuer said:


> Do you think your AKG K712 PRO is better than Mikerrr's?



Not without pairing it with the ae-5


----------



## Fegefeuer

btw.: I am curious how all these ex-AKG engineers that went to found "Austrian Audio" will pick up on the AKGK7XX legacy.


----------



## sumpao

Fegefeuer said:


> Do you think your AKG K712 PRO is better than Mikerrr's?



Mikerr is the best


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Stillhart said:


> Fair enough, some of the surround DSPs work better for some people than others.  Out of curiosity, have you messed with the settings on the DSP to increase the surround effect and see if that helps?  The Mad Dogs (from memory) are very warm and very closed... probably one of the less good headphones you could use for gaming.  It's possible that replacing the sound card might not help at all and the issue is more with the headphones.  Replacing them with something with better treble and sound stage might be something to consider also.
> 
> Back to your actual question, I know there's an internal Asus Xonar that uses Dolby Headphone (Xonar DG?) that seems to be well regarded.



Is there a headphone from bestbuy in the 2-400(possibly 500) that you would recommend? Needs to be from BB because I have store credit there  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/headph...pcmcat143000050011&sp=-currentprice skuidsaas


----------



## Stillhart

RugbyPlayer said:


> Is there a headphone from bestbuy in the 2-400(possibly 500) that you would recommend? Needs to be from BB because I have store credit there  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/headphones/over-the-ear-headphones/pcmcat143000050011.c?cp=2&id=pcmcat143000050011&sp=-currentprice skuidsaas


Without spending too much time on the site, the Sennheiser HD598 (599 now?) is a classic gaming headphone.  Check MLE's review.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Stillhart said:


> Without spending too much time on the site, the Sennheiser HD598 (599 now?) is a classic gaming headphone.  Check MLE's review.



I was looking at the hd660 possibly, didn't really see any reviews of that here, I don't think any of the 650 even?, I should add it wont be 100% for gaming but also movies and music


----------



## Stillhart

RugbyPlayer said:


> I was looking at the hd660 possibly, didn't really see any reviews of that here, I don't think any of the 650 even?, I should add it wont be 100% for gaming but also movies and music


I don't particularly consider the HD6xx series great for gaming, but I haven't heard the 660 so I dunno... might be better than the 650?  Either way, you'll almost certainly want an amp for that one so you'd have to budget accordingly.

It's a nice one for movies/music but not great for positional audio.


----------



## Sennheiser (Jul 26, 2018)

Stillhart said:


> Without spending too much time on the site, the Sennheiser HD598 (599 now?) is a classic gaming headphone.  Check MLE's review.



The HD 599 has less of the high mids/treble focus of the HD 598, and more of a fun, moderate U-shaped frequency response that is more well rounded for wider genres of music and media.





RugbyPlayer said:


> I was looking at the hd660 possibly, didn't really see any reviews of that here, I don't think any of the 650 even?, I should add it wont be 100% for gaming but also movies and music



Just on Head-Fi, there are many audiophile veterans that have reviewed the HD 650:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-hd-650-headphones.9315/

The HD 660 S was launched just fall last year, and yet there are still several reviews so far (and an official discussion thread) here on Head-Fi:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/sennheiser-hd-660-s.22727/

The HD 650 is a classic, released almost 15 years ago and still well-regarded today. In the first post of this thread, @Mad Lust Envy wrote a review of the HD 650 specifically when he used it for gaming.

The HD 660 S aims to improve on the series, with a new, more agile driver developed from the lessons learned from making the HD 800 and HD 700. It has a more energetic but still well-balanced sound signature compared to the HD 650. Though not as sensitive and easy-to-amplify as the HD 599, the 150 ohm HD 660 S does have half the impedance of the HD 650, sounding great, for example, straight out of an iPad, or plugged into a Sennheiser GSX 1000 external sound processor  or dedicated home amplifier like a Sennheiser HDVA 600 or HDV 820.

Another option is our new GSP 500 or GSP 600 headsets. These have broadcast-quality boom microphones built into the headphones, but can be flipped out of the way to mute them and jam out to music or movies. The previous generation of gaming headsets, the GAME ONE and GAME ZERO, have been popular in this forum and throughout the world; @Mad Lust Envy also reviewed these, this year, in the first post of this thread. As a HiFi and Pro studio brand, Sennheiser also made these headsets great performers for listening to music and movies.

We are proud of all our headphones, you won’t go wrong choosing any of them


----------



## illram

So I was skimming the Koss deals page and saw this; anyone know anything about this little thing? I assume it's not very good, it's unclear if it does anything other than add reverb:

https://www.koss.com/retro-rummage/ssr1

But it's $10!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> So I was skimming the Koss deals page and saw this; anyone know anything about this little thing? I assume it's not very good, it's unclear if it does anything other than add reverb:
> 
> https://www.koss.com/retro-rummage/ssr1
> 
> But it's $10!


Sounds like something that just adds reverb to stereo. I'd skip that.

That being said, I enable Dolby Atmos on my Galaxy S9 which expands stereo and makes the signature more u shaped. I like it for the PortaPro wireless. I turn it off for music, but since I mainly just watch stuff, I keep it on 99% of the time.

Speaking of the Portapro wireless, I think I'll start writing about it this weekend, since the Audeze Mobius seems to be getting delivered on Tuesday so my focus will go to that exclusively for however long they let me keep it for.


----------



## Lay. (Jul 27, 2018)

RugbyPlayer said:


> I was looking at the hd660 possibly, didn't really see any reviews of that here, I don't think any of the 650 even?, I should add it wont be 100% for gaming but also movies and music



Here are my 2 cents...

I have been gaming with HD 598 for 6-7 years and owned the HD 660 S for couple of months. I play mostly FPS/TPS games on PS4 and use Astro MixAmp.

In my opinion the high mids and treble focus of the HD 598 is what makes it so good in games to hear all the footsteps, fortnite chests etc. I don't like it for music and movies that much.

HD 660 S sound way better in music, movies and even games. Soundstage is not so wide than with HD 598 but enough and slightly wider than HD 650. Imaging is good.

When just the important things (footsteps, chests, distant gun sounds) in FPS/TPS games matter, I would pick HD 598. I'm still experimenting HD 660 S and gaming. EQ tweaking with Astro Mixamp Pro TR seems promising to find a good balance between sounding nice and hearing all the important stuff well in games without raising the volume too much. I have been testing HD 660 S with and without  (just the MixAmp) a headphone amp and they sound pretty good even without additional amp. I don't like to turn the volume up too much when gaming longer sessions since I will get listening fatigue.


----------



## raband (Jul 27, 2018)

Anyone else keen to chip in to help buy MLE a set of Mobius?

I've jumped on his Patreon to sort of try to pay back the effort, inspiration and (probably days or weeks now) time I've spent in this thread and forum.

(not necessarily the Mobius, but some part of gear he really deserves - his choice)

@Audeze, @Sennheiser, @Everyone else etc - this guys is the best salesman you (don't) have on your books.

So many people have bought so many things after being introduced to this thread from a google search.

Any of you guys willing to work out a "dollar for dollar" incentive for anything (or something similar) us people who are looking to show some gratitude to the guy that pretty much introduced us to headphones for?

MLE honestly deserves some honest recognition and acknowledgement from both the community and the manufactures that he was instrumental in bringing together.

@jude - I'd love some acknowledgement from Headfi on the traffic that this thread has driven here - am sure there's a good percentage that found your site/forum via the "MLE Headphone Gaming" thread and stuck around.

Anyone else want to help make sure MLE gets recognition for the crippling addiction he led us to?

edit: creative, mad dogs, AKG, KOSS and others should have been in the above call outs, but they don't link as sponsors.

@Evshrug - anything to add?
@Mad Lust Envy - guess I should tag you too


----------



## Fotopaul

Been trying out Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for headphones on Xbox One X. Now I'm not sure what to expect from these two, but comparing them to MixAmp Pro (dolby headphones) and X7 (SBX) neither are very close in terms of position cues or immersive experience. 

How good should these be when compared to "hardware" solutions?


----------



## raband (Jul 27, 2018)

I prefer Windows Sonic over Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Neither come close to the "hardware" solutions for gaming.

For movies they are acceptable (Sonic especially) as they add the extra space to the audio and let you forget you're wearing headphones.

For games - nup from me - they are a step above no DSP, but don't come close to a real solution.


----------



## Fotopaul

Cool will try them for movies as well, i also find Windows Sonic to be a lot better the Dolby Atmos for headphones, it at least gave some cue positioning which was positive.


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> Anyone else keen to chip in to help buy MLE a set of Mobius?
> 
> I've jumped on his Patreon to sort of try to pay back the effort, inspiration and (probably days or weeks now) time I've spent in this thread and forum.
> 
> ...


+1 on that
 My entire audio journey started from this thread


----------



## raband (Jul 27, 2018)

Yethal said:


> +1 on that



Would love to see a couple of official names there as subs.

Would probably cost them less than sending him headphones occasionally, while also showing acknowledgement of his effort.



Yethal said:


> My entire audio journey started from this thread



My whole spiralling into madness and bankruptcy started from this thread 

Hell - look at my sig - if it wasn't for this thread I'd be rocking apple pods (most were bought new, from the brands site or an official distributor - must be a couple of hundred dollars there that they got out of me from this MLE thread?)


----------



## Yethal (Jul 27, 2018)

raband said:


> Would love to see a couple of official names there as subs.
> 
> Would probably cost them less than sending him headphones occasionally, while also showing acknowledgement of his effort.
> 
> ...


I think it is as long as mad doesn't post it himself. I'm already a patron btw.
Before I came here I used a steelseries gaming headset plugged straight into my motherboard.


----------



## raband (Jul 27, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Before I came here I used a steelseries gaming headset plugged straight into my motherboard.



I had a Tritton something with a bloody confusing optical input surround sound break out box headphone with 10?? small drivers that were meant to make a true 5.1 experience.

It's honestly the only regret I have in all my headphone searches.

It was so bad I decided to search for a better option.

Found this thread, got the 2012? Astro Mixamp (when it was current) - was a PITA to get delivered to Australia - and a set of HD598's

Then I got the itch of upgrade-itis, was the start of my downfall.

Tossed the Trittons in the garbage, but still have every single other step along the way sitting on a shelf somewhere.

Lots of people blame Massdrop for their loss of control - MLE is my crack addiction


----------



## Lay. (Jul 27, 2018)

raband said:


> I had a Tritton something with a bloody confusing optical input surround sound break out box headphone with 10?? small drivers that were meant to make a true 5.1 experience.
> 
> It's honestly the only regret I have in all my headphone searches.
> 
> ...



Sounds a bit too familiar alltough it seems that I dodged the worst itch

My first gaming headset was Sharkoon X-Tatic 8 drivers "real" digital surround sound bs thing. Luckily it broke and I got all my money back. After that (2011-2012) it was Astro MixAmp ModMic and HD 598's. Yep. I allso found this thread...


----------



## Fotopaul

raband said:


> I had a Tritton something with a bloody confusing optical input surround sound break out box headphone with 10?? small drivers that were meant to make a true 5.1 experience.
> 
> It's honestly the only regret I have in all my headphone searches.



Aww common don't be hating on Tritton now..   to be honest at the time they had their AX360 there really wasn't anything out that was good in terms of surround and positioning cues. 

I have a love hate relationshio with Astro, i utterly detest their hedsets, but I have had many of their MixAmp iterations over the years and been fairly satisfied with them. My old Mixamp 5.8 still works, though unusable for chat due to the nazi noise gate. The lastest Mixamp is excellent, for chat is superior to any of the previous versions by far, surround is the same Dolby Headphone which is quite good for positioning cues but very hollow in sound.


----------



## raband

Fotopaul said:


> Aww common don't be hating on Tritton now..  to be honest at the time they had their AX360



You're right - I underestimated how long ago Tritton touched me in the bad place.

This was the unit I bought

https://au.pcmag.com/controllers-accessories-products/56446/gallery/tritton-ax-pro

The AX360's were acceptable,

I think I was lucky that I went the 





Lay. said:


> (2011-2012) Astro MixAmp ModMic and HD 598's.


 at a time where the MixAmp was the good one.

Thanks to this thread.


----------



## TeeReQs

I think we all have a similar story. I'm sure anybody who has gone down the rabbit hole of VSS gaming has found this thread in one way or another. I know I've told a handful of people to check it out if they want a new headset.

I remember having the AX360's..They sounded like doodoo, and fit the same, but I could pinpoint footsteps in CoD2 like nobody's business. Then I upgraded to Turtle Beach HPX, which are still one of my favorites in terms of positional cues. I then got a mixamp paired with Razer Orcas, and used those for a long while before finally grabbing a pair of AD700's..It just goes on and on and on.

Thanks MLE!


----------



## Yethal

Lol, I also had a Mixamp (2011 and 2013) paired with HD598. Is this the most popular surround sound combo here?


----------



## raband

Yethal said:


> Lol, I also had a Mixamp (2011 and 2013) paired with HD598. Is this the most popular surround sound combo here?



It's still an honest, legit solution

Whatever anyone thinks of Astro - the MixAmp they had back then still cuts the cheese. Maybe more than the newer ones do.

The HD598's will be the last headphones I ever get rid of - and never hesitate to recommend them to anyone looking to move up from wherever they are now.

ModMics though - spent more time trying to get them sorted than I want to admit.

Love the idea, but damn they caused me pain.

Have got a PC37X?? (whatever the massdrop version is) now that just works - pick that up now if I ever need to chat and play.


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> It's still an honest, legit solution
> 
> Whatever anyone thinks of Astro - the MixAmp they had back then still cuts the cheese. Maybe more than the newer ones do.
> 
> ...


I miss the Mixamp a lot. It sounded so much worse than the X7 but damn was it easy to use and convenient. And everything just worked straight out of the box. No random volume spikes, no finicky app to control game/chat balance, it just worked.


----------



## raband

Yethal said:


> I miss the Mixamp a lot.



It was my first real dedicated and "knowledgeable" foray into VSS (after the Tritton abortion)

I got it and the 598's at the same time(ish)

Made the mistake of thinking "this is awesome"

"wow - lets make it better"

Was at the same time NwAvGuy was designing his stuff

Ended up with the HD650's (they must be better than the 598's) and an O2Odac because it needed to be driven.

I think I had the HD650's hooked up to the O2, hooked up to the MixAmp hooked up to the PC, using the Soundblaster motherboard drivers effects or something.

Optical from the PC => MixAmp => 3.5mm => RCA to the O2 => HD650's, Modmic => MixAmp => USB => PC (mixamp was usb for mic, not noise)


----------



## mindbomb

I think the mixamp was more for console gaming, because it really needed a dolby digital source iirc. I think the spirit of the mixamp is alive today for pc in the gsx 1000, in that it is pretty simple hardware solution to set up. I still use an old asus xonar dgx, configured to output dolby headphone over optical. I really like it, but it is awkward to recommend, since it's so old, and process of setting it up is kinda complicated, since it involves configuring through a driver panel rather than pressing buttons on an external thing.


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> I think the mixamp was more for console gaming, because it really needed a dolby digital source iirc. I think the spirit of the mixamp is alive today for pc in the gsx 1000, in that it is pretty simple hardware solution to set up. I still use an old asus xonar dgx, configured to output dolby headphone over optical. I really like it, but it is awkward to recommend, since it's so old, and process of setting it up is kinda complicated, since it involves configuring through a driver panel rather than pressing buttons on an external thing.


and it's a pcie device which makes it unsuitable for laptops and mini itx pcs.


----------



## mindbomb

Yethal said:


> and it's a pcie device which makes it unsuitable for laptops and mini itx pcs.



That's true, but idk if that's a huge deal, since I think gaming on mid towers is very popular. But on the other side of things, having to use optical is a pain. That means you can't use some great budget dacs like the topping d10 and jds labs ol dac usb edition, and you can't make use of the super low jitter usb inputs on higher end dacs like the smsl m8a and topping d50.


----------



## mikerrr

i have  one question  with my soundblaster  ae-5 and  akg 712  pro can i have  surround sound ?


----------



## TeeReQs

yes...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mikerrr said:


> i have  one question  with my soundblaster  ae-5 and  akg 712  pro can i have  surround sound ?


Yes, the software has SBX surround which is Creative's virtual surround. You must make 100% sure that you go to your sound devicee settings, and configure your AE-5 in Windows to 7.1 speakers, even if you don't have speakers. If you don't do that, you won't get proper surround.

The software has Surround slider that needs to be turned on as well, I recommend all the way to 100%. Also, when NOT gaming, I recommend turning that surround button off. I do hope the manual tells you this.


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> That's true, but idk if that's a huge deal, since I think gaming on mid towers is very popular. But on the other side of things, having to use optical is a pain. That means you can't use some great budget dacs like the topping d10 and jds labs ol dac usb edition, and you can't make use of the super low jitter usb inputs on higher end dacs like the smsl m8a and topping d50.


Well, I have two pcs in front of me right now, a laptop and a mini-itx pc so using control group of one we can say that it's 100% percent useless. In all seriousness though, pcie interface is a huge limiting factor.


----------



## mindbomb

mikerrr said:


> i have  one question  with my soundblaster  ae-5 and  akg 712  pro can i have  surround sound ?


 You have to do 2 things.
1. Configure windows for 7.1 (or 5.1 if 7.1 is not available)
https://archive.is/WCkrb/8e25daec7b6f6fc4dcf71432f75c8c3ca91b4d19.jpg
2. Set up 7.1 headphones in the creative driver
https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/5-1.jpg

I think that's it. I'd try to double check with someone knowledgeable who owns an ae5.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 27, 2018)

thanks  for  the help

also  i played alot of  games  with akg  712 pro and sounblaster  ae-5 and  this  akg 712 pro  are amazing  guys

cant  compare  with  gaming headphones

with akg 712  you can  every detail  in  the  games.

i have one last  question  because i want to buy one modmic  for  my  akg 712  pro and  the use  of  modic  will be  for  GAMES,, CHATS  SKYPE,.,  FACEBOOK,, DISCHORD,,  CHATING AND MORE  STUFF

which modmic  to  buy?>?
MODMIC 4  or  MODMIC ,, BUSINESS ??
which from these 2  are  the  best?
also  i have  mechanical  keyboard./.


----------



## mikerrr

and also do  you  know where i will put  the  modmic in the  akg 712  pro?? because i dont  know

can  you show me in  one picture where i wil put the modmic in the akg 712  pro  please/?


----------



## TeeReQs

There's a bunch of ways you can do it. Here's the first video I found, when I googled: "Modmic AKG 712 Pro"


----------



## mikerrr

i have one last question because i want to buy one modmic for my akg 712 pro and the use of modic will be for GAMES,, CHATS SKYPE,., FACEBOOK,, DISCHORD,, CHATING AND MORE STUFF

which modmic to buy?>?
MODMIC 4 or MODMIC ,, BUSINESS ??
which from these 2 are the best?
also i have mechanical keyboard./.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Last question, never thought I’d live to see the day that happened.


----------



## Fotopaul

MixAmp (3rd gen) makes the most sense on consoles IMHO, there are way too many other viable options on PC. Also, the inability to use it on both Console and PC simultaneously makes it less versatile.

To use the Astro PC app to control the Mixamp you have to disconnect the USB from the console and connect it to the PC.

My solution for this annoyance is a USB Switch, with the press of a button I can switch between xbox and PC.

The main benefit of the MixAmp Pro TR (for me) when using it with an Xbox Console is that it supports chat over USB, which means no wires to the chat port on the controller! 

But apart from that it's DAC and sound is not that impressive as a general sound device, i do however find the MixAmp built quite well, the knobs have some heft to them and feels nice. (considering it's only around 150usd)

COD games have in general quite a poor sound design. Compared to DICE they don't hold a candle.


----------



## illram (Jul 28, 2018)

Fotopaul said:


> Been trying out Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos for headphones on Xbox One X. Now I'm not sure what to expect from these two, but comparing them to MixAmp Pro (dolby headphones) and X7 (SBX) neither are very close in terms of position cues or immersive experience.
> 
> How good should these be when compared to "hardware" solutions?



I use Sonic on one Xbox and the X7 on another. X7 is clearly better. But, Sonic has improved a lot since they rolled it out. It used to just not even work, it just added reverb. Now it seems to at least offer passable rear cues.

I currently use it with a Koss ESP950 (this headphone needs more love!) and it's OK.


----------



## Fotopaul

Yes it's better than nothing, i have activated it on the two other Xbox consoles the kids play on with headphones to the controller. The think it provides them with better positional cues.


----------



## mindbomb

windows sonic for headphone should be close to dolby headphone when it works. The issue is when it doesn't work and you just get stereo


----------



## WhiteHartMart

AppleheadMay said:


> Last question, never thought I’d live to see the day that happened.



Bit premature - we all know we're not at that point yet


----------



## mikerrr

which modmic to buy?>?
MODMIC 4 or MODMIC ,, BUSINESS ??
which from these 2 are the best?
also i have mechanical keyboard./.


----------



## raband

MODMIC 5

I like Turtles


----------



## mikerrr

what is  the  best  to buy one modmic  or to  buy one microphone  like  this??

Blue Yeti Black Μικρόφωνο USB??

https://www.soundimage.gr/product/blue-yeti-black-mikrofono-usb


----------



## raband

Yeti


----------



## mikerrr

yeti is  very good? for skype chat  facebook ??

one  more  question with  yeti in which distances i can speak??

i mean i must have it  very  near to me  when  i will speak??


----------



## thewind32

mikerrr said:


> yeti is  very good? for skype chat  facebook ??
> 
> one  more  question with  yeti in which distances i can speak??
> 
> i mean i must have it  very  near to me  when  i will speak??



I would suggest you to look at some reviews on youtube for the yeti and other mics that you are considering. That way you can see the recording distance as well as actually hear the recorded quality.


----------



## mikerrr

i am  testing now  soundblaster  se-5
i dont have  words

better  from  asus  stx  which i had

i mean  with soundblaster  se -5  you are inside  in  the song
brain  damage


----------



## mikerrr

very good  bass  and  amazing cARD


----------



## AppleheadMay

Razer Seiren Elite or Seiren X.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 30, 2018)

HI   DOES ANYONE  HAS  SOUNBLASTER  AE-5??



I HAVE ONE QUESTION  I HAVE SENTHEIZER GAME  ZERO AND  AKG 712  PRO



MY   QUESTION IS CAN  YOU  CONNECT THIS 2  HEADPHONES IN THE SOUNDBLASTER  AE-5??



BECAUSE  I THINK  AKG  712 HAS  ONLY 3.5  JACK



CAN  YOU  HELP ME  PLEASE/?

I PUT  SENTHEIZER GAME ZERO   IN SOYNDBLASTER  AE-5  WITHOUT  THE   3.5 JACK IS  IT  BAD??

CAN I  PUT AKG 712 PRO  IN SOUNDBLASTER  AE-5??


----------



## AppleheadMay

Oh Lord!


----------



## tmaxx123

Even with its quirks, the X7 LE with full sparkos opamps has exceeded my expectations. I’ll be selling my mixamp pro and istreamer dsp/dac now. Was a great combo, but this x7 is next level. The sparkos have made a big big difference. Anyone on the fence , find the money and make it happen. 

Anyone in a position to support MLE , absolutely should. This thread has helped many.


----------



## mikerrr

can someone  help me  please??

in the  akg 712  it has only 2  cables  one  yellow  with  3.5  jack and one black 

so  can  you help me  please??


----------



## HairyHook

tmaxx123 said:


> Even with its quirks, the X7 LE with full sparkos opamps has exceeded my expectations. I’ll be selling my mixamp pro and istreamer dsp/dac now. Was a great combo, but this x7 is next level. The sparkos have made a big big difference. Anyone on the fence , find the money and make it happen.
> 
> Anyone in a position to support MLE , absolutely should. This thread has helped many.


I see two headphone outputs in the X7. Can both be used simultaneously or is it one or the other?


----------



## mikerrr

look   i connected  the  akg 712 pro and sentheizer  game zero with  my old asus stx   with  these  gold   3,5  jack

but  i  took of  asus stx and  i  put  my soundblaster  ae-5  but  it doesnt have conection  for 3,5  jack

so  what  i will do  now??

how i will conect  my akg 712  pro in  soundblaster ae-5??

because  akg 712  has 2  cables  one yelow  with these  gold   3,5  jack  and one  black  cable

can  you  help me  please??


----------



## raband (Jul 28, 2018)

Can I give you a hint @mikerrr ?

Turn off CAPS LOCK (or stop holding the SHIFT key while you type)



mikerrr said:


> BECAUSE I THINK AKG 712 HAS ONLY 3.5



Should be a an adapter that (un)screws from the jack to choose 3.5mm or 1/4". 3.5mm jack is the small one.



mikerrr said:


> one more question with yeti in which distances i can speak??



On the desk is fine. Between head and keyboard/to the side to avoid key clicks being picked up.



mikerrr said:


> brain damage



I thought so at first, but am leaning towards English as a second language.n


----------



## raband

HairyHook said:


> Can both be used simultaneously



Yes


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 30, 2018)

see  this  video to tell me  please  ok??

go in  1 . 13 to see  this black


----------



## tmaxx123

HairyHook said:


> I see two headphone outputs in the X7. Can both be used simultaneously or is it one or the other?



I use them simultaneously, big jack to my headphones, small jack to my subpac s2. Works great!


----------



## raband

mikerrr said:


> one black with 1,5 and one yelow with 3.5



Black is 3.5mm (1/8"), orange is 6.3mm (1/4") and it should be an adaptor that screws off revealing a 3.5mm jack

Just plug in whatever fits - it shouldn't be hard.

NOTE: THERE IS AN "EDIT" OPTION FOR YOUR POSTS - FOR THE SANITY OF THE FORUM PLEASE USE IT TO MAKE SINGLE MESSAGES INSTEAD OF MULTIPLE ONES


----------



## Fotopaul (Jul 28, 2018)

Okay Mikerr you really need to unglue your caps-lock! You do realize your shouting right?

Instead of spamming with every little question try to do some research your self.

While I appreciate English is not your first language I'm quite confident that Google is available in Greece as well.

How to connect a pair of headphones to a soundcard that is something my 3-year old can figure out, so you should be able to figure that one out as well.

For other questions do a search before spamming and shouting and cluttering up a perfectly good and resourceful thread.


----------



## raband

I find it astounding someone could manage to install a soundcard in a computer, but need a tutorial on how to plug in a cable.



mikerrr said:


> i mean this yello cable which has this gold adaptor for to put in ae-5 i have to take off ?? i mean tha gold adaptor??



Did that work when you tried it?


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 28, 2018)

my problem is  this yello cable which has this gold adaptor for to put in ae-5 i have to take off ??  the  gold adaptor/?

look  this picture  the  gold adaptor  do i have to take  off??


----------



## ironmonkey27

I am no expert on headphones/cables/forums/trolling but this is getting slightly tedious and annoying now. Shout me down if I’m wrong


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 28, 2018)

mikerrr said:


> my problem is  this yello cable which has this gold adaptor for to put in ae-5 i have to take off ??  the  gold adaptor/?
> 
> look  this picture  the  gold adaptor  do i have to take  off??



THAT GOLD ADAPTER CAN BE UNSCREWED AND SHOWS A REGULAR 3.5MM PLUG. Please stop asking questions after this. All it takes is SEARCHING FOR A VIDEO OF THE K712 PRO, AND THEY WILL SHOW YOU THIS.

YES TAKE IT OFF. TAKE THE GOLD ADAPTOR OFF. IT WILL PLUG INTO YOUR AE5, OK? TAKE. THE. GOLD. ADAPTER. OFF. THEN. PLUG. THE. CABLE. INTO. YOUR. AE-5. YOU'RE FINISHED.


----------



## mikerrr

ok  thanks  mad last  envy


----------



## mikerrr

now i have one last  question  mad lust envy

as  i told  you i want  to buy one modmic  but my  question is  which modmic  to  buy?  modmic  businees or modmic 4? also i have mechanical keyboard

some  people told me  that is better to  buy one microphone  and  not to  buy  modmic because it can hurt  the headphones which i have is  it  true??
so tell me which to buy>?>? and also do  you  believe that microphone is better  from one modmic  for skype,, chat facebook  and  more  things??


----------



## raband

The other end plugs into the headphone


----------



## mikerrr

and i ask  my  apologizes for  the many  questions which i have


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ARE YOU A BUSINESS? NO. THEN GET THE MODMIC 4. JUST GET IT. THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE USE WITH THE K712, OK? GET IT. YOU WANT SOMEONE TO TELL YOU WHAT TO GET. I'M TELLING YOU. GET THE MODMIC 4. DONE.


----------



## mikerrr (Jul 30, 2018)

you mean its not worth to  buy  one microphone??like  blue  yeti??BLUE YETI MICROPHONE

do you believe  that blue yeti is better  from modmic 4?


----------



## mikerrr

i will  buy  modic  4


----------



## mindbomb

mindbomb said:


> You have to do 2 things.
> 1. Configure windows for 7.1 (or 5.1 if 7.1 is not available)
> https://archive.is/WCkrb/8e25daec7b6f6fc4dcf71432f75c8c3ca91b4d19.jpg
> 2. Set up 7.1 headphones in the creative driver
> ...



I think I was wrong about this actually. Even after selecting 7.1 headphones in the creative driver, you have to manually enable sbx surround in the driver also. So there is one more step. And apparently selecting 7.1 headphones automatically sets windows to 7.1, so that step was redundant. Someone with experience with creative drivers can confirm?


----------



## BrightCandle

mindbomb said:


> I think I was wrong about this actually. Even after selecting 7.1 headphones in the creative driver, you have to manually enable sbx surround in the driver also. So there is one more step. And apparently selecting 7.1 headphones automatically sets windows to 7.1, so that step was redundant. Someone with experience with creative drivers can confirm?



Yep the creative suite software automatically changes the Windows speaker setup. SBX Pro has to be turned on separately and you have to set the speakers to 5.1/7.1 full range and then when you flick to headphones you get the surround sound processing. It is usually best setting SBX to either 33% or 66% (start at 33%).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I say 100% surround, personally. Unlike Dolby Headphone and GSX, SBX 100% surround doesn't have a heavy reverb like the other DSPs. The higher, the better rear audio cues.


----------



## BrightCandle

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I say 100% surround, personally. Unlike Dolby Headphone and GSX, SBX 100% surround doesn't have a heavy reverb like the other DSPs. The higher, the better rear audio cues.



Just check your ability to determine the difference between front and rear. This is one area where Creative sometimes has an issue at the higher percentages with a lot of people.


----------



## Fotopaul

I'm still evaluating the best SBX setting for my ears and setup. So far I'm up to 55%, the perceived downside for me when going 100% is that I seem to have a harder time differentiate the location of the different sounds. But again I'm still evaluating and I still have some hours to go to fully burn in my Fidelio X2HR which just keeps impressing me every time I use them.

The more I use SBX the more I appreciate VSS without reverb and hollow effect.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 31, 2018)

Look what Santa brought me today! *Keep in mind, this is for reviewing purposes. I did not buy these, so I dunno when those who purchased it will get it.*

Per Sankar. THIS IS THE FINALIZED VERSION. Take that as you will, but I say that all the worrying should be coming to an end for you guys. Mind you, the box is plain white and I'm sure that will change for those who buy it. The papers and all look 100% legit.

I have things to do today *cough*Destiny 2 reset "Solstice of Heroes", which I'll be using to put the Mobius through its paces. Don't expect day to day impressions, as all of that will go into my full review update.

I haven't checked what's going on in this thread, but if there are any ISSUES, I'll talk about them. Apparently some low noise issues? I dunno. We'll see.


----------



## HairyHook

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Look what Santa brought me today! Keep in mind, this is for reviewing purposes. I did not buy these, so I dunno when those who purchased it will get it.


Can't wait to hear your opinion on the final version!


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

Stillhart said:


> Stillhart has finally put him on ignore after the 15th time seeing the same question (the most recent two being in PM... AGAIN).  I like being helpful, but not feeding trolls trumps being helpful.


DO YOU THINK THE UTOPIA BEATS other HEADPHONES IN SOUNDTAGIG that comes from VIDEOGAMES TECHNOLOGY?

MY Utopia come on WEDNESDAY FROM DHL. will it be better then COMING IN THURSDAY?


Mad Lust Envy said:


> Feggy. HOW COULD YOU?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

LOL. Oh no.

NOT YOU TOO. 

Being serious for a moment, holy crap do people here complain about literally anything.

Now I'm a suspected Audeze shill? 

I WISH A COMPANY PAID ME BEHIND THE SCENES! LOL


----------



## David.M (Jul 31, 2018)

I just revived from inactivity, but big shout-out to the people like MLE and others who keep updating this thread and all the useful information that's out there.

To me, its kinda funny,  It's 2018 and nothing significant has been implemented (software wise) that with just 1 click of a button, you get true 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound for your speakers or headphones, and then one click to turn them off.

Even Atmos or Windows Sonic are on full tilt mode, AC:Origins (for the pc) developer removes the Atmos feature, who even knews if the game worked with it on or without it on, Now there's no support for it, and its a mixed bag of people saying it works or it doesn't.

ITS 2018. Why isn't software calibration up to spec? Razer Surround? Jibberish. Windows Sonic and Atmos? Questionable at the best. What about that 10 dollar sound card program that you could buy on steam? Even that thing was going haywire. Why don't you just make Dolby headphone available to all windows users for a one time fee and have your software actually work for once.

Why do i have to spend money on Creative Sound Cards and Creative products like the X7 to do 1 small thing that I've been scratching my head for years for them to integrate properly.


----------



## HairyHook

David.M said:


> I just revived from inactivity, but big shout-out to the people like MLE and others who keep updating this thread and all the useful information that's out there.
> 
> To me, its kinda funny,  It's 2018 and nothing significant has been implemented (software wise) that with just 1 click of a button, you get true 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound for your speakers or headphones, and then one click to turn them off.
> 
> ...


Check out the Smyth Realiser A16. I felt exactly like you and when I tried it at CanJam SoCal this year it gave me hope that true headphone virtualization with personalized measurements can be obtained. There is a full A16 thread here in Head-Fi.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

David.M said:


> I just revived from inactivity, but big shout-out to the people like MLE and others who keep updating this thread and all the useful information that's out there.
> 
> To me, its kinda funny,  It's 2018 and nothing significant has been implemented (software wise) that with just 1 click of a button, you get true 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound for your speakers or headphones, and then one click to turn them off.



Actually, the Sennheiser GSX1000 has 1 button press to go from 2 speakers to 7.1 at the driver level.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> LOL. Oh no.
> 
> NOT YOU TOO.
> 
> ...



I got those accusations as well (especially getting paid) because I have two Lake People threads going, WHILE I ACTUALLY PAID FOR MY AMP MYSELF AND SAVED UP FOR IT FOR GOOD AMOUNT OF TIME. I EVEN PREFER SCHIIT DACS TO OTHERS. HEY SCHIIT PAY MEEY, I WANT A SCHIIT SCHILLA LOICENSE


----------



## BrightCandle

There is also Spartial sound card on Steam which is pretty similar to SBX pro and offers a very simple switch process as well.


----------



## Yngvarr

I've got a Sennheiser GSX 1000, and after work, i'm going to pick up my AKG K701's.
And then, we'll see what kind of sound I can get out of those.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yngvarr said:


> I've got a Sennheiser GSX 1000, and after work, i'm going to pick up my AKG K701's.
> And then, we'll see what kind of sound I can get out of those.


The GSX1000 is a bit underpowered for the AKGs. I hope you have a desktop and to help the GSX power them.

You might get enough volume, but it DEFINITELY is far from ideal.


----------



## illram (Aug 1, 2018)

I feel like virtual surround needs an industry consortium-like push to really get going, as without branding and advertising pushing it I don't think 90% of people really care about it, or even understand it. If you compare it to the video-world, you have cool stuff like HDR, or freesync/g-sync, or 4K (or whatever new cool thing) and you also have either a single big player (e.g. Nvidia or Samsung or AMD or the HDMI consortium) pushing it as an industry wide standard and advertising it to constantly sell new product. We basically have Dolby and Microsoft (I wouldn't put Creative in their league, from a size/influence perspective) and they don't seem to be supporting VSS as well as they could beyond offering buggy, not quite working products, almost as after-thoughts. (Oh hey our latest windows update also includes this Sonic thing, check out the last bullet point on page 11 of our patch notes!) It does not seem like many publishers really care too much about filling in those gaps beyond supporting the speaker world. I think with more and more people using headphones to play games on their phones, or plugged into their controllers, etc. it's a real opportunity for someone to step in with a very cool, "instant-wow" experience that is a simple software solution _that actually works, 100% all the time_, like a real binaural or 3D surround standard or something like that.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yngvarr said:


> I've got a Sennheiser GSX 1000, and after work, i'm going to pick up my AKG K701's.
> And then, we'll see what kind of sound I can get out of those.


I'm with MLE, you'll probably want to consider adding an amp to the mix if you're using the AKG K701 with the GSX 1000.


----------



## Yngvarr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The GSX1000 is a bit underpowered for the AKGs. I hope you have a desktop and to help the GSX power them.
> 
> You might get enough volume, but it DEFINITELY is far from ideal.




Would it be better to invest in a Magni/Modi stack and use software solutions for 7.1 VSS?


----------



## AppleheadMay (Aug 1, 2018)

Yngvarr said:


> Would it be better to invest in a Magni/Modi stack and use software solutions for 7.1 VSS?



IMO no. The Magni isn’t that powerful either and the GSX1000 does a hell of a job creating game surround.
Plus I wonder if your 7.1 surround wouldn’t be messed up by a 2 channel dac.

Why not route the ouput of the GSX to a real headphone amp?
I use it that way with a HDVA 600


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> I feel like virtual surround needs an industry consortium-like push to really get going, as without branding and advertising pushing it I don't think 90% of people really care about it, or even understand it. If you compare it to the video-world, you have cool stuff like HDR, or freesync/g-sync, or 4K (or whatever new cool thing) and you also have either a single big player (e.g. Nvidia or Samsung or AMD or the HDMI consortium) pushing it as an industry wide standard and advertising it to constantly sell new product. We basically have Dolby and Microsoft (I wouldn't put Creative in their league, from a size/influence perspective) and they don't seem to be supporting VSS as well as they could beyond offering buggy, not quite working products, almost as after-thoughts. (Oh hey our latest windows update also includes this Sonic thing, check out the last bullet point on page 11 of our patch notes!) It does not seem like many publishers really care too much about filling in those gaps beyond supporting the speaker world. I think with more and more people using headphones to play games on their phones, or plugged into their controllers, etc. it's a real opportunity for someone to step in with a very cool, "instant-wow" experience that is a simple software solution _that actually works, 100% all the time_, like a real binaural or 3D surround standard or something like that.


VSS is much trickier than gsync or HDR. There are only two HDR standards, Dolby Vision and HDR-10, the same with variable refresh rate, there is g-sync and freesync. Now look at the audio industry. We have so many competing standards it's not even funny. Until one dominant vss standard emerges we will never see it become mainstream.


----------



## Yngvarr

AppleheadMay said:


> IMO no. The Magni isn’t that powerful either and the GSX1000 does a hell of a job creating game surround.
> Plus I wonder if your 7.1 surround wouldn’t be messed up by a 2 channel dac.
> 
> Why not route the ouput of the GSX to a real headphone amp?
> I use it that way with a HDVA 600




What amp would you suggest, preferably one that's easily available to mainland Europe?


----------



## illram (Aug 1, 2018)

Yethal said:


> VSS is much trickier than gsync or HDR. There are only two HDR standards, Dolby Vision and HDR-10, the same with variable refresh rate, there is g-sync and freesync. Now look at the audio industry. We have so many competing standards it's not even funny. Until one dominant vss standard emerges we will never see it become mainstream.



Yeah that's what I was trying to say (in my incoherent ramble). My virtual surround utopia is a standard, true 3D audio headphone solution that is available on every game, is 100% software based (so, use any hardware and headphones you want) and is so good you actually really are missing out NOT using headphones vs. surround (channel-based) speakers when playing.

If Windows Sonic and Atmos were actually working products we could already be here but they are currently not as good as the channel virtualizing competition.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Aug 1, 2018)

Yngvarr said:


> What amp would you suggest, preferably one that's easily available to mainland Europe?



A second hand HDVA 600 should be quite affordable, about a third of the price listed on the Senn website.
But a lot depends on the price you’re willing to pay. There are heaps of amps and I can only talk about the ones I had or heard.

Edit: A cheper Violectric or SPL might be an option as well, looking at my list.


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Yeah that's what I was trying to say (in my incoherent ramble). My virtual surround utopia is a standard, true 3D audio headphone solution that is available on every game, is 100% software based (so, use any hardware and headphones you want) and is so good you actually really are missing out NOT using headphones vs. surround (channel-based) speakers when playing.
> 
> If Windows Sonic and Atmos were actually working products we could already be here but they are currently not as good as the channel virtualizing competition.


We had that back in Windows XP days, back then games were able to interface directly with audio hardware the way they are able to interface directly with gpus so the games passed the information about location of the audio sources relative to the camera to the sound card, the soundcard rendered it and divided it into channels so regardless of whether you were playing on headphones or speakers you got the same 360 degree soundscape.


----------



## AxelCloris

Yngvarr said:


> What amp would you suggest, preferably one that's easily available to mainland Europe?


What's the budget for an amp? There's a number of amps that pair well with the K701.


----------



## Yngvarr (Aug 1, 2018)

AxelCloris said:


> What's the budget for an amp? There's a number of amps that pair well with the K701.


I'd say, preferably below 250 Dollars/ Euro's.
And it's only to power headphones, i don't have the space for a speaker setup.

I was thinking something like the JDS Objective 2 or VMV SMSL VA-2 VA2


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 2, 2018)

*Matrix Audio M-Stage HPA-3U +*


http://matrix-digi-usa.com/m-stage-series/m-stage-hpa-3u

it's over 250 dollars but then a one time buy and never look back.


----------



## Yngvarr (Aug 2, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> *Matrix Audio M-Stage HPA-3U +*
> 
> 
> http://matrix-digi-usa.com/m-stage-series/m-stage-hpa-3u
> ...




I don't have any use for the balance headphone jack, I don't have any headphones with that plug.
Also, i'm not sure it comes with the right power plug for my country's powersockets.

Upon further research, I've found out that the AKG K701 seems to be picky in the amp department.
Listed as a great choice was the Vioelectric V200, which i believe had been suggested here also.
I've also read that they sound great when using a quality tube-amp.
Now, that is somewhat out of my budget, however people seem to power them fine with a Magni 2/ Modi stack.

Now, since apparently people can use these headphones fine with the Schiit stack, and because it's still somewhat in my price range, i'm leaning towards that option.


----------



## Stillhart

Yngvarr said:


> I don't have any use for the balance headphone jack, I don't have any headphones with that plug.
> Also, i'm not sure it comes with the right power plug for my country's powersockets.
> 
> Upon further research, I've found out that the AKG K701 seems to be picky in the amp department.
> ...


Schiit won't pair well with them.  You want something a little warmer to offset the brightness of the 701.  Violectric are notoriously warm so they'd make a solid pairing.  I'm not sure if their cheaper Lake People amps are warm too, but you might look into those.  I second the Matrix M-Stage, as it's the first amp I ever bought and I got it to pair with my Q701.  You might see if you can find an older one on the used market for cheap.  I had a HPA-1 and it was great for what I needed.

I'd also look into the integrated Audio-GD solutions.  The NFB-15 was my upgrade path from the Matrix and I thought it was a pretty great upgrade all around.  They don't make that one anymore, but there are plenty of other options, both new and used, floating around.


----------



## Yngvarr

Stillhart said:


> Schiit won't pair well with them.  You want something a little warmer to offset the brightness of the 701.  Violectric are notoriously warm so they'd make a solid pairing.  I'm not sure if their cheaper Lake People amps are warm too, but you might look into those.  I second the Matrix M-Stage, as it's the first amp I ever bought and I got it to pair with my Q701.  You might see if you can find an older one on the used market for cheap.  I had a HPA-1 and it was great for what I needed.
> 
> I'd also look into the integrated Audio-GD solutions.  The NFB-15 was my upgrade path from the Matrix and I thought it was a pretty great upgrade all around.  They don't make that one anymore, but there are plenty of other options, both new and used, floating around.



So, something like this then?
http://audiomagic.eu/en/matrix-audio-2/matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-with-usb?from=listing


----------



## Stillhart

Yngvarr said:


> So, something like this then?
> http://audiomagic.eu/en/matrix-audio-2/matrix-m-stage-hpa-3u-with-usb?from=listing


Well that's the same one you said you didn't want so... no?


----------



## Yngvarr

Stillhart said:


> Well that's the same one you said you didn't want so... no?



well, if the other option is to always use the cans underpowered...
and at the same time, i suppose it's somewhat futureproof.


----------



## Stillhart

Yngvarr said:


> well, if the other option is to always use the cans underpowered...
> and at the same time, i suppose it's somewhat futureproof.


You could always try asking in the K701 thread for good amp pairings at a given price point.


----------



## Yngvarr

Stillhart said:


> You could always try asking in the K701 thread for good amp pairings at a given price point.


I've read that the Heed Canamp works really well with the K701's.
It's a bit more expensive then i would've wanted.

But you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.


----------



## unexpectedkAs

Hi all, 

I have the Audio Technica AD700x and I wpuld like to use them with my Xbox One X. I also would like to be able to use the microphone from the headset that comes with the xbox (which is just one ear and the mic).

I mainly play FPS (Destiny 2) and racing games (Forza). 

How can I get the best sound out of the xbox with this config and a budget of 250usd?

I have read to use the MixAmp Pro TR White with an amp, but I am lost here. There are no comments on the first page regarding performance of the AMP/DACs on consoles.

Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 3, 2018)

Still, Audio-GDs interested solutions don't have analog inputs so you can't use them with external VSS solutions.

As for Xbox solutions, I'm sorry that I have no knowledge of what works and what doesn't. Last Xbox I owned was a 360 back in the day. We have an XB1S at home but it ain't mine and it's only used so very infrequently just for 4k Blu-Ray use.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Still, Audio-GDs interested solutions don't have analog inputs so you can't use them with external VSS solutions.
> 
> As for Xbox solutions, I'm sorry that I have no knowledge of what works and what doesn't. Last Xbox I owned was a 360 back in the day. We have an XB1S at home but it ain't mine and it's only used so very infrequently just for 4k Blu-Ray use.


They do now, check out nfb 28.38 for example.


----------



## illram

If Mobius uses Waves Nx, and if you already have good cans, does Mobius offer anything as far as surround virtualization different than Waves + its tracker?


----------



## raband

No - it's an "all in one" solution built into the headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal said:


> They do now, check out nfb 28.38 for example.



It's about time then, but it likes like they're all on the expensive side compared to the older NFBs that didn't have analog inputs.


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

raband said:


> No - it's an "all in one" solution built into the headphone.



Thanks. That's what I figured.

Tried out Waves Nx tonight. (just the free trial not with the head tracker). It wasn't bad. It was definitely more like a virtual speaker room, complete with the maybe-more-than-necessary reverb. SBX, what I am familiar with, seems to still do rear cues well without the extra reverb. I tried out the max setting (Movie Theater), for the same reason the Spinal Tap guitar amps go to 11. It was a bit buggy at first but eventually it worked. (It refused to see any of my audio output devices until I rebooted my PC 3 times. Sure, OK.)

It is odd, as was noted in this thread by someone a while ago, that you have basically no idea how Waves is doing its thing. You can't (or don't have to?) configure speakers like you do with SBX, for example. I assume Mobius, using Waves tech, is the same in that you just select it as your audio device and that's that. I want that to be how this all works but a few years of messing around with this stuff has made me paranoid that that isn't sufficient to "just work" with everything (vs. a solution like SBX where you know everything works all the time if you just select the right speaker config). I tried Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, which lets you configure in game (outside windows control panel) windows default vs. 5.1, and it did sound like 5.1 sounded a bit better. The rear cues seemed more behind me (just a little bit). But, on Windows default I still felt like rear cues were truly behind me. They just felt a little closer. I also tried GTA V, which also has its own surround settings, and it was just OK. Big huge room-size-fake soundstage but not blow-me-away rear cues.

I am curious how that magic is happening on default in games, if it is actually just taking a stereo signal and waving digital surround unicorn dust on it or virtualizing channels like SBX and GSX or what. (Placebo? Or I lack a solid understanding of precisely how windows default audio drivers communicate. Or something.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 6, 2018)

If it's anything like Mobius, choosing 7.1 directly adjusts how many speakers are outputting in Windows at the driver level. Same with the Senn GSX1000.

With the Mobius even if your source is two channels, itlli be like youryoin a room with two speakers in front of you on the sides.


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If it's anything like Mobius, choosing 7.1 directly adjusts how many speakers are outputting in Windows at the driver level. Same with the Senn GSX1000.
> 
> With the Mobius even if your source is two channels, itlli be like youryoin a room with two speakers in front of you on the sides.



What's Windows feeding it when the game does not offer surround channel selection (5.1 or 7.1) though? A lot of games don't. Is Waves dependent on the game having that option?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have never used Waves, so I dunno.


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have never used Waves, so I dunno.


Mobius and Waves Nx are the same thing, at least as far as the surround software. Or does Mobius let you mess with speaker channels in its software?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. They let you adjust room size, your head shape.

What I'm saying is that, on a two channel file, the sound are still gonna come from two virtual speakers in front of you.


----------



## FlashBangStun

Hey guys, new here!

So I've had a DT 990 pro 250ohms for 3-4 years now, driven by massdrop o2odac,  Due to some sound muddiness when I play with the DT, I have been looking in my area for a stereo headphone with the same, or larger sound stage then my DTs.

While aware that it sounds like side-grade, I have narrowed the search down to the AD700x or AD900x (2nd hand), because they cost more or less the same currently. Going through tons of reviews and forums, I'm still undecided between the 2 and it's hard to find shops that would allow me to try them on for an extended period so I'm asking. My main concerns are:

1. Soundstage (For FPS gaming)
2. Any advantages of the 900x over 700x?

It'll be great if I could also read some of your experiences using both sets.

Thanks for reading this!


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No. They let you adjust room size, your head shape.
> 
> What I'm saying is that, on a two channel file, the sound are still gonna come from two virtual speakers in front of you.



Right, I get that. What I'm wondering is, if the movie/game/whatever does not let you select 5.1 or 7.1 you're using "windows default." Windows default is 2 channel, right? If so that's a limitation on the usefulness of the DSP (for gaming at least) since so many games don't offer that sort of audio customization.

It's the same conundrum people were wondering about with Windows Sonic.


----------



## mindbomb (Aug 6, 2018)

illram said:


> Right, I get that. What I'm wondering is, if the movie/game/whatever does not let you select 5.1 or 7.1 you're using "windows default." Windows default is 2 channel, right? If so that's a limitation on the usefulness of the DSP (for gaming at least) since so many games don't offer that sort of audio customization.
> 
> It's the same conundrum people were wondering about with Windows Sonic.



The windows default format is user configurable, based on what your dac supports. 



Selecting windows sonic for headphones though, automatically sets it to stereo. Which really limits how useful it is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's one reason I like how the GSX1000 and the Mobius does it. At the driver level. The Creative X7 is defaulted to stereo, so people who don't know to go to the sound settings in windows or forget, are not getting the proper experience.


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

mindbomb said:


> The windows default format is user configurable, based on what your dac supports.
> 
> 
> 
> Selecting windows sonic for headphones though, automatically sets it to stereo. Which really limits how useful it is.




I know, but Waves Nx (and Mobius, if I'm not mistaken) don't let you configure speaker selection though. The Configure button is literally greyed out. As you point out that's also the confusion/limitation with Windows Sonic.

Re: the GSX1000, my understanding is you still need to ensure the speakers are set to 7.1 in Windows via the "Configure" button. Like SBX. (If it does it automatically that's cool, but the function is still available to switch it.) But Waves Nx (and Mobius), again, seem to operate differently--that option in Windows is entirely removed. So: the question remains, if the program (e.g. your game) also lacks any channel selection config, are you getting stereo?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 6, 2018)

Waves NX is reporting itself as a 7.1 device to games.

sorry, I mean 7.1


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> Waves NX is reporting itself as a 5.1 device to games.


Thank you! The answer I was looking for. How did you find that out? My google-fu must be weak.

edit: I'll answer my own question: the Kickstarter page FAQ includes an answer saying Waves Nx reports itself as a "7.1 soundcard" to Windows. I assume Mobius is thus doing the exact same.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/waves/waves-nx-3d-audio-on-any-headphones/faqs

It would be nice if Windows audio settings weren't so damn opaque and multi-layered with seemingly duplicative settings pages. (E.g. the new audio device panel you get when you right click and select Sound Settings, but you can still find the "old" control panel box by clicking "Sound Control Panel" on that page... Ugh.)


----------



## Fotopaul

illram said:


> It would be nice if Windows audio settings weren't so damn opaque and multi-layered with seemingly duplicative settings pages. (E.g. the new audio device panel you get when you right click and select Sound Settings, but you can still find the "old" control panel box by clicking "Sound Control Panel" on that page... Ugh.)



That's windows for you, inconsistent UI and a hard time choosing if it's an OS for PC or Tablets...


----------



## Fegefeuer

illram said:


> Thank you! The answer I was looking for. How did you find that out? My google-fu must be weak.
> 
> edit: I'll answer my own question: the Kickstarter page FAQ includes an answer saying Waves Nx reports itself as a "7.1 soundcard" to Windows. I assume Mobius is thus doing the exact same.
> 
> ...



I meant 7.1

proof for instance is Titanfall 2:


----------



## illram

Thanks. It's such a simple piece of info, it should be more front and center in their user guide and marketing since it is the difference between it being almost useless vs awesome.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I wonder why Dolby Access wasn't setup like WavesNX. Report as a 7.1 device and skip 7.1 when Atmos streams are input. Like old X-Fi cards would drop 5.1/7.1 virtualization once OpenAL was active and instead rendered object-based.


----------



## mindbomb

Waves looks like it is set up properly then, and even prevents people from messing it up. This makes things very easy for people.


----------



## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's one reason I like how the GSX1000 and the Mobius does it. At the driver level. The Creative X7 is defaulted to stereo, so people who don't know to go to the sound settings in windows or forget, are not getting the proper experience.



Doesn't the GSX1000 require the same windows setting change? It's stated in its manual.


----------



## raband

thewind32 said:


> Doesn't the GSX1000 require the same windows setting change? It's stated in its manual.



There was a while when Windows was putting it back to 2.0 on reboot.

Not sure if it's still happening or not.


----------



## thewind32

raband said:


> There was a while when Windows was putting it back to 2.0 on reboot.
> 
> Not sure if it's still happening or not.



No I meant during the initial setup. It seems like if someone forgets to change the number of speakers initially, it would not be the proper experience, which MLE was implying that the GSX1000 was free from.


----------



## Yngvarr

thewind32 said:


> No I meant during the initial setup. It seems like if someone forgets to change the number of speakers initially, it would not be the proper experience, which MLE was implying that the GSX1000 was free from.



https://assets.sennheiser.com/globa...1000_UserGuide_A03_1017_SP19_version1_INT.pdf

On page 9 of the instruction manual, there's instructions to set the Windows Sound config to the 7.1 speaker setup.
However, i'm not sure if there's a difference in sound when Windows is in 2.0 or 7.1, when the GSX 1000 is in 7.1 mode.
I think there is, but i can't confirm it since i'm at work.


----------



## Yethal

Yngvarr said:


> https://assets.sennheiser.com/globa...1000_UserGuide_A03_1017_SP19_version1_INT.pdf
> 
> On page 9 of the instruction manual, there's instructions to set the Windows Sound config to the 7.1 speaker setup.
> However, i'm not sure if there's a difference in sound when Windows is in 2.0 or 7.1, when the GSX 1000 is in 7.1 mode.
> I think there is, but i can't confirm it since i'm at work.


7.1 is set in windows so that games that do not offer manual sound output settings default to 7.1 instead of 2.0


----------



## mindbomb

Yethal said:


> 7.1 is set in windows so that games that do not offer manual sound output settings default to 7.1 instead of 2.0


With the gsx1000, it's game>OS>gsx1000, so that whole pathway has to be 7.1

but in the case of sonic for headphones, the processing happens before the OS outputs it, so only the game needs to be 7.1.


----------



## padfoota

I posted this on reddit but you guys seem more active so im posting this here too. I need help on upgrading my setup for PUBG and future gaming

So I play a lot of PUBG recently and Ive been wondering how to improve my setup in order to better detect enemy position through sound cues. I realize that this game has its audio files coded as stereo, but this is just one game, I will definitely be using my hardware on other future games.

This is my usual set up:

MSI GS40 6QE headphone jack, apparently the laptop uses something called (ESS SABRE HiFi DAC)

For headphones, I now use my RHA MA750 iems since they offer better isolation and are more comfortable in the summer.

In the winter, I use my AKG k550 with Brainwavz angled velour pads. However, these do not offer good isolation anymore despite being closed back headphones due to the new pads having worse isolation (old pads are dead, couldnt replace them at all) and probably also because I wear glasses and the temple/temple tips prevent my pads from getting a full close around my ears.

Ive been wondering how to improve my setup for my gaming needs (7.1 surround sound?) while not sacrificing or even possibly upgrading my usual music/movie sessions.

I originally began research into Senns GSP series, mainly through HardwareCanuck's videos on it

Originally, I would prefer closed-back headphones but after these, and especially after considering the GSP500s, my preference begun shifting towards open-back headphones since I never got proper isolation from my AKG k550s or even my super old AKG k271s, so I begun considering open-back headphones.

During my research, I also noticed the GSX 1000, and Ive been wondering about the benefits a proper DAC/AMP, possibly even one thats geared towards gaming (while retaining general music/movie qualities) would be a good idea, but I do think the GSX 1000s is a bit expensive for a minor gaming upgrade.

So my thoughts are this now - If I want proper isolation now Id just use my RHAs - I absolutely love them and they do their job well, for travel or for general use. I am considering whether I should get the GSP 500s as a replacement for home/gaming usage pair of headphones and also as my first open-back headphones, and I am also looking for a proper amp/dac for gaming and general usage. I'm also thinking about the GSX 1000s since you guys seem to love them so much o_O


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> With the gsx1000, it's game>OS>gsx1000, so that whole pathway has to be 7.1
> 
> but in the case of sonic for headphones, the processing happens before the OS outputs it, so only the game needs to be 7.1.


Yeah but if the game does not offer manual audio output swtting it will output whatever format is set at OS level.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thewind32 said:


> Doesn't the GSX1000 require the same windows setting change? It's stated in its manual.


If you manually toggle 2 channel on the GSX and check Windows, the configure option will show two speakers. If on the GSX you toggle 7.1, Windows will automatically show 7 speakers in the configure option. So this is why I said you don't need to manually do ot in Windows.

Now, was this always the case? I don't know.

On the X7 you definitely need to manually adjust it in Windows.

Btw, my X7 still has the issue of sometimes upon turning it on, the internal mic will be enabled (I can literally hear the room until I mute the muc), as well as one channel being at 50% volume and the other at 100% for certain sources in the Mixer menu. Also the actual volume of speakers or headphone are maxed out, so if you play anything without adjusting first, prepare to be scared to death and/or damage your gear.

I'm currently in contact with Creative, so I should bring this up to them.

I don't use the X7 much nowadays, but it's still something that always has me checking every time I turn it on.


----------



## Fotopaul

That is unacceptable imho, has anyone else had this issues on OSX or is it only windows users? If so it seems to be a driver/software issue. I have not had any issues with volume or mic on my X7 but i have not used it on windows for more than 5min to update the firmware.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 11, 2018)

I think I'm the only person with this problem. It may be my PC causing this too.

What I'm gonna do is not use the USB function on the X7 for awhile. See if the problem arises again. In the meantime I'll just use the Senn GSX1000 for PC use. Well... after the Mobius review is refreshed and done. I won't get a real chance to write until Monday. Audeze caught me at a bad time, as I don't get a day off until my vacation starts on the 26th, and then I'M ON VACATION. Ugh. I'm gonna have to find time.


----------



## illram (Aug 12, 2018)

Just tried Waves Nx vs. OOYH (game demo). Black Ops III multiplayer, 7.1, HD800S.

OOYH was...wow. Rear cues made me jump out of my chair, they were the best I have heard yet vs. SBX, Waves, Razer, Windows Sonic, and Dolby Atmos. (I know I am late to the OOYH party, you guys were discussing it here 2 years ago, I just never got around to trying it as I was satisfied with my X7). I was surprised because sound quality wise I was less than enthused before the matches started. (Everything sounded kind of tinny and far away, bass was anemic.). But rear cues were best I have heard yet. I think I remember reading it uses Realiser A8 recordings so maybe that is why. (So if this is any indication of what my Realiser A16 might sound like if it ever gets delivered...yum. Delicious.)

Waves Nx was definitely second fiddle. I will not be buying it, even though it is cheap. HD800S definitely shows off its crazypants huge soundstage with the Waves software but rear cues are why I came to this party. I will sacrifice many things at their altar. (They were not much better than SBX, frankly, and the SBX doesn't not skimp on sound quality). But OOYH is another tier, even with its generic PRIR that it is using. Too bad I don't game on the PC too much anymore!

I will say OOYH software leaves much to be desired.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Aug 12, 2018)

Hello,
So I have a pretty high end setup that is great for most things. Sony Z1R headphones, Cavalli Liquid Gold amp, Schiit Gungnir Multibit dac, custom cables etc. Everything sounds great but I'm particularly looking for the best headphones I can get dedicated solely for competitive shooters and nothing else. I am interested in what will have the best imaging, separation, sound stage, etc so I can pinpoint footsteps loud and clear.

Not too concerned about budget. What cans should I be looking at?
Also, should I look into sound mixing stuff?


----------



## Yethal

Boogie7910 said:


> Hello,
> So I have a pretty high end setup that is great for most things. Sony Z1R headphones, Cavalli Liquid Gold amp, Schiit Gungnir Multibit dac, custom cables etc. Everything sounds great but I'm particularly looking for the best headphones I can get dedicated solely for competitive shooters and nothing else. I am interested in what will have the best imaging, separation, sound stage, etc so I can pinpoint footsteps loud and clear.
> 
> Not too concerned about budget. What cans should I be looking at?
> Also, should I look into sound mixing stuff?


If you can afford the z1r you can afford hd800


----------



## Boogie7910

Yethal said:


> If you can afford the z1r you can afford hd800



I said budget is not really a concern but the only point in your comment is about price. That doesn't really help me, sorry.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Boogie7910 said:


> I said budget is not really a concern but the only point in your comment is about price. That doesn't really help me, sorry.



His recommendation is still spot on. HD800 is the only answer.


----------



## Yethal

Well there is nothing better than HD800 for gaming. HE-1 maybe but that's just ridiculously overkill


----------



## Boogie7910

Fegefeuer said:


> His recommendation is still spot on. HD800 is the only answer.





Yethal said:


> Well there is nothing better than HD800 for gaming. HE-1 maybe but that's just ridiculously overkill



I was initially leaning toward the HD800 but then saw someone on reddit say the DT 1990 Pro was better for competitive gaming with better positioning as well as an enhanced vertical plane. Has anyone compared the two?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 12, 2018)

I trust my people, and at the very high end, I always see HD800. Knowing them and how they know what to expect, I wouldn't go anywhere if I was looking at the very top end for headphones and gaming.

ONE DAY, ONE DAY I'LL GET THE CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM. @Sennheiser, YOU HEAR ME?


----------



## illram (Aug 12, 2018)

Boogie7910 said:


> I was initially leaning toward the HD800 but then saw someone on reddit say the DT 1990 Pro was better for competitive gaming with better positioning as well as an enhanced vertical plane. Has anyone compared the two?



I just poked around Reddit looking for that comment to see what that person was smoking, and saw a few D1990 vs. HD800 posts . All of the comments I saw said the HD800 had a bigger soundstage and better detail (imaging). I'm not quite sure what enhanced vertical plane means. Some people nonetheless preferred the 1990 for music/fun/whatever but that's not why you're here, right?

I'm a very lucky HD800S owner (basically the HD800 minus the 6k "treble spike") and I can confirm its stage is crazy huge. Couple that with probably the best imaging in a dynamic driver (maybe even of any driver) and you really can create an artificial, wonderful 3D headspace around you in your games with both accurate position and distance. Its bottleneck will only be the quality (or lack thereof) of your game's audio and whatever surround DSP you are using. Look for deals on them used.

As was mentioned you can also look at top end planars or even electrostats. (Stax) I've never tried Stax but IIRC MLE reviewed one, and lots of people gush over their imaging abilities. I have a Koss ESP950 that does do amazing detail but its stage is smaller than the HD800 (and its imaging is still not on par). From memory my HE-560 came closest to the HD800 as far as reasonably priced planars go. But, easier to just call it a day and get the HD800/S.


----------



## TeeReQs

Is the price premium for the 800s worth it over the 800? Seriously considering selling all my cans and jumping on the 800 train.


----------



## illram

That I don't know. A lot of people cheaply mod the 800 successfully to get the same effect of the S. I have no idea how that affects the stage or imaging, if at all. (E.g. if the unmodded 800 is actually better purely in terms of positional accuracy or whatever).

My _guess _would be: no, the price premium is not worth it, if this is more for gaming. I only have the S because I got a decent used deal on it.


----------



## Fotopaul

The HD800 seems to be almost half the price of the S version. Amazon has it for as low as 787 euro new.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Get the HD800, french mod it. Have a bit less of the resonator effect of the HD800S but slightly cleaner bass. Better tradeoff.


----------



## TeeReQs

Thanks for the input. 800 is $1093 usd on Amazon right now..Seems like used ones on eBay don't go for much less than that. 

I did get a chance to listen to a pair of HD800 a couple years ago, and they really do sound amazing. I have too many open back headphones that pretty much do the same thing. Would be nice to scale the lot back to one or two and have the 800's be the daily driver.


----------



## Got the Shakes

TeeReQs said:


> Thanks for the input. 800 is $1093 usd on Amazon right now..Seems like used ones on eBay don't go for much less than that.
> 
> I did get a chance to listen to a pair of HD800 a couple years ago, and they really do sound amazing. I have too many open back headphones that pretty much do the same thing. Would be nice to scale the lot back to one or two and have the 800's be the daily driver.



If you’re willing to buy used, try the classifieds here on Head-Fi. I bought a pair that were already modded for under $800 about a year and a half ago from a user here. They basically looked new and came with all of the original packaging.


----------



## TeeReQs

I'll keep my eyes open for a pair. Thanks


----------



## mbyrnes

HD800 will probably be my next audio purchase. I won't bother until my A16 arrives, as my HE-X V2s I'm beyond happy with. I'm more a planar guy, and these have a huge soundstage as well. They're a steal at their close out pricing. 

Still curious about HD800 and the only way to know is to just buy them. Maybe a Christmas present to myself, lol. Hopefully I'll have had the A16 for a few months by then, but who knows anything with it's shipping window. Really want to know how to use it and get everything out of it first.


----------



## TeeReQs

I hope they start shipping the A16 soon..That thread is getting exhausting..


----------



## mbyrnes

Lol, it's terrible. I know a few are in this thread as well. I flip through looking for actually updates. I skip all the doom and gloom. 

HD800 is the headphone they use with it. That's why I think I "need" to get one


----------



## HairyHook

Fotopaul said:


> The HD800 seems to be almost half the price of the S version. Amazon has it for as low as 787 euro new.


That's a great price, can you share the link?


----------



## HairyHook

mbyrnes said:


> Lol, it's terrible. I know a few are in this thread as well. I flip through looking for actually updates. I skip all the doom and gloom.
> 
> HD800 is the headphone they use with it. That's why I think I "need" to get one


I'm on the same boat. Pre-ordered the A16 and considering the HD 800 because that's what they use, plus it has to sound great for gaming.


----------



## Fotopaul

HairyHook said:


> That's a great price, can you share the link?



https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B001OTZ8DA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3H67MCZSHBW0J&psc=1

It's with a 200 euro voucher, and without VAT. (which I don't pay, but that depends on where you'r live, and if your a business or not)


----------



## AppleheadMay

HairyHook said:


> I'm on the same boat. Pre-ordered the A16 and considering the HD 800 because that's what they use, plus it has to sound great for gaming.



Same here, will try a few Senns with the Realiser.

I actually built my whole system around the upcoming Realiser.
PS4, Xbox, Mac and PC for inputs, 
Output video from Realiser to a 65" flatscreen. Mac And PC will be connected to a 3 monitor setup as well.
Audio output for the monitors will be a Yarra connected to Realiser.
Audio output for the TV will be either a Yarra as well or the upcoming Sennheiser soundbar.
Both Yarra's will be connected to 1 sub, won't use the one that's shipped with the Yarras.
And headphone output of course.
Man cave FTW!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Did anyone get his hands on a *Thrustmaster T-Flight U.S. Air Force Edition Headset *yet?
What's it like?


----------



## TeeReQs

I have a Bottlehead Crack w/ speedball, and the X7, but some people say the crack doesn't pair as well with the 800 as it does say the 650. I'd mostly be using it solely with the X7 though..

Seems from reading about the french mod, you could get some of that bass in the HD800, but then you have to modify your $1000+ pair of headphones...

What VSS are you using with your 800S? In the Creative software you could turn down the surround for SBX, and it should make things feel a little less spaced out.


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I don't know much about the mod, but I don't think its expensive or difficult to do, may be wrong?

I would totally try the Crack with the X7. I like HD800 and Crack combo.

I'm using the X7 as well. I never messed with the SBX settings! i'll give it a go next time I fire it up. Thanks for telling me about it, I never thought about it 

BTW I am currently hooking up the X7 to my Liquid Carbon and have been enjoying that with the HD800. Seems to take some bite out out of them, and I like that.


----------



## TeeReQs

It seems like a pretty simple mod.

Mess around with those settings and you can dial in your surround preferences. Could play with the EQ as well to make footsteps  more apparent as well.

Thanks for the input. Something to think about. I have the speedball upgrade for the crack, but I haven't installed it yet. Just been listening to the base model for now..


----------



## illram

I have the X7 hooked up to an iFi iCAN, which does well with the HD800S (to my ears anywway), SBX at 100%. I've tried lower, like 70%, and didn't notice much of a difference to be honest. I like the huge spaciousness feeling personally and SBX never gets too reverb-y for me (compared to other DSP's).


----------



## pietcux

TeeReQs said:


> It seems like a pretty simple mod.
> 
> Mess around with those settings and you can dial in your surround preferences. Could play with the EQ as well to make footsteps  more apparent as well.
> 
> Thanks for the input. Something to think about. I have the speedball upgrade for the crack, but I haven't installed it yet. Just been listening to the base model for now..


Did the mod on both sides in less than 15 minutes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> I have the X7 hooked up to an iFi iCAN, which does well with the HD800S (to my ears anywway), SBX at 100%. I've tried lower, like 70%, and didn't notice much of a difference to be honest. I like the huge spaciousness feeling personally and SBX never gets too reverb-y for me (compared to other DSP's).



Yeah there is very little of no trade off to just max out SBX at 100%.


----------



## Cerebrum2045 (Aug 15, 2018)

MTMECraig said:


> I don't know much about the mod, but I don't think its expensive or difficult to do, may be wrong?



It's relatively cheap to create (steps in the original thread) the resonator but you have the option to buy it directly from the creator of the mod. (check the original thread)
It's really easy to install however, I think it will void the warranty.

The mod itself can be undone so if you do not like the sound signature after modding you can return the HD800 to its original sound signature by removing it.


----------



## Yethal

I have the X7 hooked up to a Schiit Ragnarok and this is a massive overkill for gaming but at least I get to keep the X7 as my primary source for everything.
Also SBX at 100% or nothing, the inbetween settings are half measures.


----------



## Vader2k

Yethal said:


> I have the X7 hooked up to a Schiit Ragnarok and this is a massive overkill for gaming but at least I get to keep the X7 as my primary source for everything.
> Also SBX at 100% or nothing, the inbetween settings are half measures.


----------



## raband

Yethal said:


> I have the X7 hooked up to a Schiit Ragnarok and this is a massive overkill for gaming



HDVD800 and STAX energizer for me

Usually the speakers or cans running direct from it though


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> HDVD800 and STAX energizer for me
> 
> Usually the speakers or cans running direct from it though


Lol did I just got outoverkilled?


----------



## raband

Yethal said:


> Lol did I just got outoverkilled?



Can't say, would love to try the rag


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> Can't say, would love to try the rag


Me too, I'm curious how the multibit nature of yggy would affect the spatial cues.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 17, 2018)

I got something that I can't talk about yet, but all I can say is that those of you looking into gaming virtual surround amps like the Mixamp and what have you, there is something coming that even on my first day of use is gonna make the Mixamp obsolete especially if you want virtual surround but may wanna use either your own dac (with spdif optical input), or your own amps without double amping.

Think of it like the X7, but more cost effective. And it works for everything like the X7. A cheaper alternative. You won't need it if you already have the X7.

I'm excited about it. It's gonna make it easier for people who can't afford the X7. 

I'll mention what it is in less than two weeks. The review probably won't be done then but I will at least let you know what it is.


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got something that I can't talk about yet, but all I can say is that those of you looking into gaming virtual surround amps like the Mixamp and what have you, there is something coming that even on my first day of use is gonna make the Mixamp obsolete especially if you want virtual surround but may wanna use either your own dac (with spdif optical input), or your own amps without double amping.
> 
> Think of it like the X7, but more cost effective. And it works for everything like the X7. A cheaper alternative. You won't need it if you already have the X7.
> 
> ...



Can’t wait! 
When you guys say SBX 100% do you mean sbx surround 100%?


----------



## Fotopaul

As long as it's not better than the X7 lol haha

Eitherway sounds exciting, and if it has full chat compatibility for consoles on it's own that will be something else!


----------



## Fotopaul

tmaxx123 said:


> Can’t wait!
> When you guys say SBX 100% do you mean sbx surround 100%?



Yes set to 100% in the control panel


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting MLE, does it support consoles as well? AC3? DTS? ;[]


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 17, 2018)

That's all I'll say for now lol. I haven't put it through the ringer yet. But the basics.

You get much more volume than the GSX1000 so it should be at least good in getting the AKG K700 variants at a good volume.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 17, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Me too, I'm curious how the multibit nature of yggy would affect the spatial cues.



It does and profoundly so. Having been through the 2nd week of the GumBy I never experienced movies to be so stellar over headphones, noticably better in imaging, the creation of space and room. I stopped using any other plugin other than Dolby Access and I'm having a blast.
The Gungnir has elevated the whole movie experience which the Modi MB could not at all in comparison to a handful of other DACs. GumBy however did. Outside of speakers no headphones does our hobby so well than the HD800.

Just wait for it and see for yourself.

Oh, and it's not only about how these DACs create the image, space and trace the cues, it's also about their tonality, finest detail and especially the way the bass is recreated. The CFF surely plays a huge role here.


----------



## Boogie7910

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got something that I can't talk about yet, but all I can say is that those of you looking into gaming virtual surround amps like the Mixamp and what have you, there is something coming that even on my first day of use is gonna make the Mixamp obsolete especially if you want virtual surround but may wanna use either your own dac (with spdif optical input), or your own amps without double amping.
> 
> Think of it like the X7, but more cost effective. And it works for everything like the X7. A cheaper alternative. You won't need it if you already have the X7.
> 
> ...



Sounds good, I'm looking for a VSS that I can use my own dac and amp with without double amping. Can the X7 do that? Is the VSS in this new item your talking about do as good or better job than X7? How does the X7 and this item compare to sonic surround and dolby atmos software?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anyway, I'll be very happy if this device allows me to skip the x7 entirely (I miss it for consoles) while costing (much?) less, since I don't need any analog parts except maybe the moic.


----------



## Fotopaul

Boogie7910 said:


> Sounds good, I'm looking for a VSS that I can use my own dac and amp with without double amping. Can the X7 do that? Is the VSS in this new item your talking about do as good or better job than X7? How does the X7 and this item compare to sonic surround and dolby atmos software?



Yes you can output the VSS processing thru optical out of the X7.

The Windows Sonic Surround and Dolby Atmos for headphones is not at all comparable to SBX, GSX or even dolby headphone (in hardware solutions like the mixamp)


----------



## Boogie7910 (Aug 17, 2018)

Fotopaul said:


> Yes you can output the VSS processing thru optical out of the X7.
> 
> The Windows Sonic Surround and Dolby Atmos for headphones is not at all comparable to SBX, GSX or even dolby headphone (in hardware solutions like the mixamp)


 
Ok, good to know. Didn't know there was a big difference between software and hardware VSS. Which hardware solution is regarded to be the best in accuracy for surround that lets me also use my own dac and amp?


----------



## Fotopaul

Not sure how many units there is that can output VSS digital to a DAC? Most units that has a spdif optical out are pass thru and does not apply the processing to the signal.


----------



## raband

Boogie7910 said:


> Which hardware solution is regarded to be the best in accuracy for surround that lets me also use my own dac and amp?



I think a few soundblaster soundcards do.

X7 definitely does.

Maybe a Creative thing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 17, 2018)

I won't answer all those questions regarding this new item since it ain't out yet, and it's best just to wait until all testing is done.

As for VSS solutions: my faves in terms of tricking my brain and accuracy:

Virtual surround accuracy. Spots 1-4 are so close to one another, you really can go with any and get a real sense of surround from all sides

1. GSX (One + symbol on the GSX1000, which sounds like 2/3 room size. Two ++ symbols has too much reverb)
2. Dolby Headphone (Dolby Headphone 2, which is 2/3 room of it's surround. DH3 too much reverb. Overally, despite its drawbacks, I find it very accurate in surround positioning)
3. Audeze Mobius (default is 35% Room Ambience, I'm using 41%, this sounds closer to DH2 and GSX one +. 50% and up has too much reverb. The more I use it, more I feel that Audeze got the surround right ALREADY.)
4. SBX (rear cues a little closer to you than the top 3. Farther = easier to discern front and backl, though SBX is still stellar here. SBX has the least reverb and can  maxed out at 100% for the surround without drawbacks)
5. THX TruStudio (like SBX but IIRC, the off angle positional cues weren't accurate. So a 1 o/clock sound cue sounded closer to 3 o'clock, etc.)
6. Razer, CMSS 3D, the rest. I only briefly tested these under HeSuVi and didn't like them. I can't say much as it's the least experience I have.


Worth noting: https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/

Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head has various virtual surround emulated speaker setups that sound EXCEPTIONALLY good. It works. Problem is, it's software and limited to PC. But having used it for a bit, it definitely belongs on the list. I don't have enough experience with it to say where I would place it, but if you're PC only and don't want devices, it is a good alternative with some presets having really good cues, and others not so much. There's many to play with however. It's a bit costly though for just software, hence why I didn't put much focus on it when I was in direct contact with them. I should've gone more in depth. That was a different time and me. 



Virtual Surround Sound Quality

1. SBX (cleanest sounding)
2. GSX and Mobius (comparable in quality of the sound)
3. THX Tru Studio (despite weaker cues, the sound quality is good)
4. Dolby Headphone (infamous for being a bit too reverb heavy, and distinctly warmer tonality compared to the others.)

Overall

1. SBX (I feel it has most of everything)
2. GSX (Until it's available on consoles, its use case is too limited
3. Mobius (Like GSX, its limited to PC which is a shame, as it is exceptionally good)
4. Dolby Headphone (it's positional accuracy is top notch, but the sound is heavily colored and echoey, so it's polarizing)


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's all I'll say for now lol. I haven't put it through the ringer yet. But the basics.
> 
> You get much more volume than the GSX1000 so it should be at least good in getting the AKG K700 variants at a good volume.


We need DSD
Direct
Stream of
Details


----------



## mindbomb

For me, there is 3 that I really like. Dolby headphone dh1, sennheiser gsx with one + of reverb, and windows sonic for headphone (on the xbox or through hesuvi...win 10 version is a pain in the butt).


----------



## TeeReQs

Soundblaster Super X-Fi?


----------



## tmaxx123

Ive got my iPod Touch hooked up to the soundblaster x7 via the thunderbolt usb to the host input on the side of the x7. Highest bit rate I’ve been able to get to play is 16 bit 48 kHz. 

From the research I’ve done, higher resolutions are only avail via the usb on the rear of the x7 , to pc or Mac. 

Anyone know any different work arounds or solutions to this? 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## tripletopper

Considering Im on a budget, I'm looking for a DTS 5.1+ headset -> DTS Surround Headphone adapters + 2 track wireless headset, or all-in-ones that optimize directional sound well.  I found the Turtle Beach x42 works well for all my gaming needs and for Dolby movies on a stand-alone BluRay player.  The problem is DTS movies are silent.  Most 4K players don't have DTS media-> Dolby sound converters, so I need something that can complement my Turtle Beach X42 Dolby.  Highest factor is price and directionality. Minor treble/bass/midrange issues is not a consideration unless it's so bad, movies are unwatchable.  prefer wireless, but just as converter with an "add-a-wireless" would be okay, needs either Toslink Coaxial,  or HDMI.   LPCM 7.1 HDMI-> binaural headphones would be nice, but not a priority because Nintendo has good 2 channel headphone mixes as their standard 2 track soundtracks.  Doesn't need a microphone.

I tried a Sony MDR-DS6500.  It sounds better in DTS than silence, but not much, a 1-dimensional 2 track soundtrack with no directional pop and not as good as a straight 1 Dimensional Stereo LPCM 2.0


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 17, 2018)

tmaxx123 said:


> Ive got my iPod Touch hooked up to the soundblaster x7 via the thunderbolt usb to the host input on the side of the x7. Highest bit rate I’ve been able to get to play is 16 bit 48 kHz.
> 
> From the research I’ve done, higher resolutions are only avail via the usb on the rear of the x7 , to pc or Mac.
> 
> ...



You have to go to speaker configuration in Windows and set the X7 to 2 speakers in iorder to get 24bit/96khz and whatever else. However if you want surround, you have to go back and set it to multiple speakers, AND set the bit rate to 16/48 or it will give an error message. It's finicky like that.


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You have to go to speaker configuration in Windows and set the X7 to 2 speakers in iorder to get 24bit/96khz and whatever else. However if you want surround, you have to go back and set it to multiple speakers, AND set the bit rate to 16/48 or it will give an error message. It's finicky like that.



So in order to get my iPod to play higher bit rate via the host usb input ( input on the side) I have to change settings via windows? 
My settings on windows are at 24bit 196khz and it has no problems playing on the x7. Only issue I have is when I use just the ipod as host while playing on PS4. Only then does the x7 limit bit rate to 48khz

I mainly use the x7 on PS4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 17, 2018)

oh, I didn't notice that it was for non-Windows use. Sorry, I somehow missed that first part.

I dunno. I have never owned an Apple product.

For PS4, I attach via spdif optical cable.

I have never used the USB Host function on the X7.


----------



## pietcux

Fegefeuer said:


> It does and profoundly so. Having been through the 2nd week of the GumBy I never experienced movies to be so stellar over headphones, noticably better in imaging, the creation of space and room. I stopped using any other plugin other than Dolby Access and I'm having a blast.
> The Gungnir has elevated the whole movie experience which the Modi MB could not at all in comparison to a handful of other DACs. GumBy however did. Outside of speakers no headphones does our hobby so well than the HD800.
> 
> Just wait for it and see for yourself.
> ...


Dolby Atmos or Access? Which plugin do you mean?


----------



## One Man (Aug 18, 2018)

Been using this guide since 2013 & recently joined because I need expert advice as I have a lack of knowledge when it applies to audio.. I used to have the mixamp pro with a schiit amp connected to my PS4. I have gotten rid of both because I had quit gaming for some time due to circumstances.


Anyways, I now want to use the Sound Blaster X7 for Dolby HP sound from PS4. Positional cues are the most important to me as well as game immersion. I lean more to the value of cues/immersion (competitive) over the (fun) factor but not if if it's fatiguing or unnatural to listen to & definitely don't like a heavy bass. I have AKG K702 Annie's with plans on getting MrSpeakers Ether Flows. I only will get an amp if it's beneficial to the setup & the type of Amp or Amp/DAC depends on the feedback I get.


I was wondering if it would be possible/beneficial to hook up any good quality amp to the SB X7? I seen no such diagram on this guide but did see it used with the Mixamp Pro & was curious if a HP amp could be applied much the same way but w/ the SB X7.


If it possible/beneficial to add an amp, I wanted to see if it's possible to get a balanced signal from an amp that has 2) 3 pin XLR outputs (balanced) &/or  1) 4 pin XLR output (balanced). The goal is to use those balanced output(s) along w/Annie's via 1)mini 4 pin XLR upgraded connection & w/ Ether Flow via the 2)mini 3 pin XLR connections. So in short, is it possible to get a balanced signal (XLR) from an amp hooked up to the SB X7?


I'm under the impression of the following based on what I read. 1) I can't get Dolby sound from just any standalone Amp/DAC, as they need the DSP chip to get Dolby sound. 2)Stereo sound with a good Amp/DAC like the CMA 600i, Yulong DA9, or even higher end Amp/DAC's can't match the positional cues/immersion of Dolby HP's sound. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

With great anticipation, I look forward to an informative response. Your help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got something that I can't talk about yet, but all I can say is that those of you looking into gaming virtual surround amps like the Mixamp and what have you, there is something coming that even on my first day of use is gonna make the Mixamp obsolete especially if you want virtual surround but may wanna use either your own dac (with spdif optical input), or your own amps without double amping.
> 
> Think of it like the X7, but more cost effective. And it works for everything like the X7. A cheaper alternative. You won't need it if you already have the X7.
> 
> ...



Do I already know about it?

Also, someone wants to read your Dekoni pad review for the HE-400, but I feel kinda bad linking them to your first post since it’s all the way at the bottom. Didn’t you post the review separately in the thread too? Got a link for that? Hah ^__^'`


----------



## Evshrug

TeeReQs said:


> Soundblaster Super X-Fi?





 



tmaxx123 said:


> So in order to get my iPod to play higher bit rate via the host usb input ( input on the side) I have to change settings via windows?
> My settings on windows are at 24bit 196khz and it has no problems playing on the x7. Only issue I have is when I use just the ipod as host while playing on PS4. Only then does the x7 limit bit rate to 48khz
> 
> I mainly use the x7 on PS4.


Apple limited the iPod’s output to 16/44. I’m not going to get into the debate about whether or not higher resolutions can more accurately describe the wobbles in a sine wave, but I will say that the mastering quality of the song and quality of the DAC/amp/headphone will make a much more obvious difference in quality once you reach CD quality (16/44).



One Man said:


> I was wondering if it would be possible/beneficial to hook up any good quality amp to the SB X7? I seen no such diagram on this guide but did see it used with the Mixamp Pro & was curious if a HP amp could be applied much the same way but w/ the SB X7.
> [spoilers]
> 
> If it possible/beneficial to add an amp, I wanted to see if it's possible to get a balanced signal from an amp that has 2) 3 pin XLR outputs (balanced) &/or  1) 4 pin XLR output (balanced). The goal is to use those balanced output(s) along w/Annie's via 1)mini 4 pin XLR upgraded connection & w/ Ether Flow via the 2)mini 3 pin XLR connections. So in short, is it possible to get a balanced signal (XLR) from an amp hooked up to the SB X7?
> ...



Firstly, the X7 is already a powerful desktop amp, and not to be underestimated by itself. Plenty for all the headphones you mentioned. If you want better than that, it’s also worth considering that often you would financially be more efficient if you purchased upgrade opamps for the X7, and a few good options (Sparkos, Burson, Muse, etc) are reviewed and liked. Second, an amp can be connected to the X7 in the same way as a mixamp (by plugging into the headphone ports), or by connecting to the line-out RCA ports on the back (I don’t know if these pass along the DSP surround effect).

Third, if you want to use a higher end DAC and subsequent audio chain, the X7 has an optical output that CAN pass along the DSP Surround effect, and is the only console-compatible, Dolby 7.1 decoding, and headphone surround processing device I am aware of (other than the $4k Smyth Realizers). By higher end, expect to spend several hundred dollars more than the price of the X7 before you hear an audible benefit in all aspects.

Did it sound better for me to use PS4 > Creative X7 > Chord Mojo > Cavalli Liquid Carbon > XLR4 > Headphone? Yes. But I was still happy and having fun without using the extra complexity, electricity use, and desktop footprint. The X7 was a moderately superior device on it’s own.


----------



## One Man (Aug 18, 2018)

@Evshrug. Thank you for your response. So in your opinion it's not worth adding an amp because the audio quality increase is just a fraction better? I was already checking into op-amps & that sounds like a good possibility. Would the power adapter upgrade be worthwhile?


----------



## illram

TeeReQs said:


> Soundblaster Super X-Fi?


That was going to be my guess. I think they said Q4 2018 for it, too.


----------



## tmaxx123

Evshrug said:


> Apple limited the iPod’s output to 16/44. I’m not going to get into the debate about whether or not higher resolutions can more accurately describe the wobbles in a sine wave, but I will say that the mastering quality of the song and quality of the DAC/amp/headphone will make a much more obvious difference in quality once you reach CD quality (16/44)



The output isn’t limited via lightning, which is what I’m using. 

On a separate note, my he-560 sounds awesome on the x7. Takes considerably more power to push compared to the ath-a900x


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 18, 2018)

Anyone know what to use to extract opamps? I wanna go back to the stock ones on the X7 after having replaced them with some I don't personally like ( @mbyrnes gave me some Burson v5i opamps that sounds harsh and bright to me.)

I ended up butchering the stock ones while trying to take them out so I gotta buy a replacement set, but don't wanna ruin the Bursons just in case.




One Man said:


> @Evshrug. Thank you for your response. So in your opinion it's not worth adding an amp because the audio quality increase is just a fraction better? I was already checking into op-amps & that sounds like a good possibility. Would the power adapter upgrade be worthwhile?



In audio, we're playing a game of fractions as improvements.  If you're already leaning towards to X7, really, it will NOT let you down. The DAC portion is really good, the amp is powerful, and if you think you need more, you can always get a better amp later.

I say amp, because if I was going to be improve, i'd do an amp first since I'm 100% happy with the DAC. Perhaps a tube amp as an alternative to the amp in the X7.

I wish the new Lyr wasn't so expensive.


----------



## Pairzilla

Speaking of the x7. Is there a certain surround volume that is ideally the best sounding?


----------



## x1o8x

hi guys,

recently bought the sennheiser gsp 300 and every time I turn the mic downwards, it seems to be unable to keep its position and it would always bottom out. even if i set it at a half way position (closer to my mouth), the mic would slowly turn downwards. while it doesnt really impact my speech volume, i find it kinda annoying. is this actually its intended design or do i have a flawed headset?


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone know what to use to extract opamps? I wanna go back to the stock ones on the X7 after having replaced them with some I don't personally like ( @mbyrnes gave me some Burson v5i opamps that sounds harsh and bright to me.)
> 
> I ended up butchering the stock ones while trying to take them out so I gotta buy a replacement set, but don't wanna ruin the Bursons just in case.
> 
> ...



I used a combo of a very small screwdriver to slowly pry up the opamps from each angle then some surgical forceps to grab them from the top and slowly wiggle them out.
My stock ones came out without any issues.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Pairzilla said:


> Speaking of the x7. Is there a certain surround volume that is ideally the best sounding?


100%  max out the surround. SBX has little reverb so maxing it out doesn't have any real detriments unless you want a smaller soundstage.


----------



## Pairzilla

Sweet thx


----------



## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I say amp, because if I was going to be improve, i'd do an amp first since I'm 100% happy with the DAC. Perhaps a tube amp as an alternative to the amp in the X7.



I've seen people claim that feeding the signal through a tube amp may have negative effects on the vss (in general, not limited to X7). How true is that?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

thewind32 said:


> I've seen people claim that feeding the signal through a tube amp may have negative effects on the vss (in general, not limited to X7). How true is that?


I've only owned the original Schiit Lyr and Schiit Vali as far as amps with tubes go. I didn't find any detriments to VSS, though the Vali 100% absolutely had a smaller soundstage compared to whatever solid state amp I had at the time. May have been an Audio GD one. But the Vali sounded so beautiful I didn't mind the soundstage being smaller. In either case, VSS makes the soundstage large anyways.

So take what people say with a grain of salt.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 19, 2018)

One Man said:


> @Evshrug. Thank you for your response. So in your opinion it's not worth adding an amp because the audio quality increase is just a fraction better? I was already checking into op-amps & that sounds like a good possibility. Would the power adapter upgrade be worthwhile?


 Every little upgrade adds up, but the biggest jump is simply having enough power for full-size headphones. As Mad said, it’s easy to add an external amp later if you want... but you may not feel like you need to.

The upgraded power supply only affects the active speaker outputs, no change for the headphone outputs.



x1o8x said:


> hi guys,
> 
> recently bought the sennheiser gsp 300 and every time I turn the mic downwards, it seems to be unable to keep its position and it would always bottom out. [spoliers]even if i set it at a half way position (closer to my mouth), the mic would slowly turn downwards. while it doesnt really impact my speech volume, i find it kinda annoying. is this actually its intended design or do i have a flawed headset?[/spoilers]



Hi x1o8x,
That sounds like it might be a defect, I’d recommend reaching out to Sennheiser support:
https://service.sennheiserusa.com/




Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've only owned the original Schiit Lyr and Schiit Vali as far as amps with tubes go. I didn't find any detriments to VSS, though the Vali 100% absolutely had a smaller soundstage compared to whatever solid state amp I had at the time. May have been an Audio GD one. But the Vali sounded so beautiful I didn't mind the soundstage being smaller. In either case, VSS makes the soundstage large anyways.
> 
> So take what people say with a grain of salt.


Exactly, tube amps can vary in presentation of soundstage just as much as any solid state amp. My first good amp was a tube amp (still have it!), and the ability to separate instruments and place them in a soundstage was FAR better and bigger than the pocket SS amps and phone amps I used before.


----------



## Fegefeuer

TeeReQs said:


> Soundblaster Super X-Fi?



100%


----------



## illram (Aug 20, 2018)

I just hope there isn't a bit of a bait and switch going on with the Super X-Fi, in that all the demos used a more involved process (ear microphone calibration and a larger dedicated piece of hardware) than the final product is supposed to have. (Just take a picture of your ear.) But Creative is a big, established player so I am very excited to see how it looks when released.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Aug 20, 2018)

Anyone have a problem with the surround mix in Call of Duty games? I remember the original Modern Warfare 2 being perfect and having absolute precision of sounds and I knew exactly when someone was coming around a corner to where I would start shooting a split second before they even popped their head out. Since then the sound mix seems confused and garbled almost as if they have anti sound whoring code.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Boogie7910 said:


> Anyone have a problem with the surround mix in Call of Duty games? I remember the original Modern Warfare 2 being perfect and having absolute precision of sounds and I knew exactly when someone was coming around a corner to where I would start shooting a split second before they even popped their head out. Since then the sound mix seems confused and garbled almost as if they have anti sound whoring code.



It's not just you. Depending on the studio, more recent CoDs have terrible sound mixing in terms of benefits to virtual surround sound. The last game I can think of that does well is CoD Ghosts. The ones after that really seem to have dialed down surround cues.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 20, 2018)

Wait, something not about headphones? YES!!! I can finally express an opinion!!

And yeah, COD4, MW2, and Ghosts were the audio pinnacles of the series. Black Ops III wasn’t bad... but it wasn’t very good either, or tactically useful, mostly a lot of bangs. It’s also somewhat the nature of the game design, which is also what happens with Battlefield: there are so many loud things like explosions and air support going on that it’s really hard to listen for footsteps and other quieter sounds among that, or it’s so obvious where an enemy will be (the choke points of three lanes) that it doesn’t matter if you hear them, everybody’s at the meat grinder.

Ghosts was particularly cool, if you main assault rifles and short-range guns. There was a “tactical awareness perk” that made footsteps and pins being pulled from grenades easier to hear, and a General game design Priority on making sound cues important and informative.

I haven’t played CoD WWII, so I don’t have a comment about that. Maybe that will be a return to form, but there might be too many explosions.


----------



## illram

I found Black Ops III to have great rear cues and that was the last Call of Duty to really make audio useful with loud footsteps. I found Infinity War terrible until an update that increased footstep noise, then my X7 actually did become useful in that game. I did not really play WWII much and from the recent BO4 Beta it looks like the trend to down play audio cues is continuing.

I never found the actual quality to change game to game other than whether the game had a useful audio related perk, or not. Call of Duty just re uses the same engine year after year anyway.


----------



## headphonesonly

BO4 seemed like it had really good positional cues. Definitely better than BO3 and i think it’s because of their putting some emphasis on sound cues for the blackout BR mode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stay tuned Monday/Tuesday.

I'm going on vacation for two weeks, so I won't likely have the Mobius updated review done, nor two other upcoming reviews until after, but I will at least let you know what they are in a few days.

And if anyone is waiting for the Koss Portapro wireless review, I apologize. That one will have to come AFTER these three upcoming reviews.


----------



## TeeReQs

Sweet! Looking forward to it. Have a nice vacation


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6

So this is what Creative sent me. Works with everything, like the X7 but is a more budget option at $150, and actually has a lot of volume gain compared to the Senn GSX1000. So if you fiund yourself with a harder to drive headphone and need volume, the G6 is the safer bet.

Outside of my comfort zone, they have also sent me:

https://us.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/aurvana-trio

A week's worth of impression with the Nintendo Switch is very positive. Has a warm neutral character, with sparkle up top. AT first they really hurt my ears since I don't particularly care for ANYTHING in my ear, but using the small tips, the comfort isn't bad. I do wish they packaged small foam tips, as there is only a medium foam tip which hurts my small ear canals.

ANyways, after the Audeze Mobius updated review, I'll do these two things. Very good things from all three.


----------



## illram (Aug 27, 2018)

Oooooooh look at that. Buying it! Need a second console compatible device. It'd be nice if they could just push a software update to the G5 and E5 to allow Dolby decoding but I guess that is a pipedream.

Now the E5 is even more of an odd man out in the Creative family. I'm not sure what purpose it serves--portability? (I own one, I heard its SBX was better than the G5's.)


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Aug 27, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6
> 
> So this is what Creative sent me. Works with everything, like the X7 but is a more budget option at $150, and actually has a lot of volume gain compared to the Senn GSX1000. So if you fiund yourself with a harder to drive headphone and need volume, the G6 is the safer bet.



So close to being perfect until I read - Xbox Voice not supported??  Once day we'll get someone other than Astro willing to stump up the stupid Microsoft tax  . Although Creative offering a free H5 headset with orders which once sold could make this a pretty economical purchase for single player on XB and all PS gaming??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The SBX I dunno why but does sound a LITTLE different. Fortunately, the surround cues are just as good as the X7 so it's no big deal.


----------



## Fegefeuer

LITTLE as in?


----------



## illram (Aug 27, 2018)

Wasn't there a difference between the G5's surround vs. the E5's? Maybe the G6 retained that difference.

Edit: Is their FAQ wrong?



> Does virtual surround work with consoles like the PS4, Xbox and the Nintendo Switch?
> Virtual surround only works when connected to PC.



If this decodes DD does that mean it only decodes it to send it to speakers?? If so then this is actually useless to me. I am assuming the FAQ answer is just incorrect inasmuch as you need a PC to configure surround? The ad copy explicitly states console 5.1/DD compatibility all over the place. MLE can you clarify this?


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> So close to being perfect until I read - Xbox Voice not supported??  Once day we'll get someone other than Astro willing to stump up the stupid Microsoft tax  . Although Creative offering a free H5 headset with orders which once sold could make this a pretty economical purchase for single player on XB and all PS gaming??


Microsoft tax for this feature is $35 and requires implementing special authentication chip on the PCB. Tbh I'm surprised Astro decided to swallow that.


----------



## raband

illram said:


> f this decodes DD does that mean it only decodes it to send it to speakers?? If so then this is actually useless to me. I am assuming the FAQ answer is just incorrect inasmuch as you need a PC to configure surround? The ad copy explicitly states console 5.1/DD compatibility all over the place. MLE can you clarify this?



Was just about to query the same point


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Switch is a recent addition, but I don't see  that it does anything but plain stereo.


----------



## illram (Aug 27, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Switch is a recent addition, but I don't see  that it does anything but plain stereo.



Do you happen to have an Xbox or PS4 to test its decoding on?

If this thing does not do virtual surround on consoles I'd do a huge 180 on this product. It's not a cheaper X7 by any means without that, really. And on Creative's marketing decisions.... other than the FAQ answer it would be pretty misleading to not have virtual surround on consoles when it hypes its "console compatibility" and Dolby decoding and 5.1/7.1 virtual surround all over its ad copy.

The E5 also is "console compatible" inasmuch as you can plug in an optical input (and get stereo sound). If that is all they are basing console compatibility on that's misleading (and, I don't see what purpose this would serve beyond the E5/G5?). I hope the FAQ is wrong....


----------



## WhiteHartMart

'Does virtual surround work with consoles like the PS4, Xbox and the Nintendo Switch?
Virtual surround only works when connected to PC.'

Like you say - this is in the FAQs on their main product page - pretty definitive by the looks of it??


----------



## Fegefeuer

well, MLE surely tested it and wouldn't call it a lighter version of the X7 (for consoles etc.) if it didn't decode AC3 and virtual surround it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Fegefeuer said:


> well, MLE surely tested it and wouldn't call it a lighter version of the X7 (for consoles etc.) if it didn't decode AC3 and virtual surround it.



Yea - which is why their FAQ comment is strange.  I'd be interested in ordering one of these tbh as I liked the G5 I had.  Need to be 100% confident on this point though


----------



## illram

WhiteHartMart said:


> 'Does virtual surround work with consoles like the PS4, Xbox and the Nintendo Switch?
> Virtual surround only works when connected to PC.'
> 
> Like you say - this is in the FAQs on their main product page - pretty definitive by the looks of it??



I dunno it just seems like this product serves zero purpose beyond the E5 and G5 and X7 without being console compatible. The marketing seems totally contradictory to that FAQ answer which is why I wonder if it is just incorrect. I mean, is there any reason for DD decoding on this device other than console virtual headphone surround? Wouldn't you have to output optical from this to a receiver anyway (which presumably could decode DD itself without this thing?) It does not have analog outs like the X7 for a 5.1 system.


----------



## Fotopaul

I also find the DD decoding and virtual sound processing abilities marketed on the website somewhat contradicting.

Is it possible that it will decode DD, but SBX/virtual surround is only possible if you connect it to a pc and use the control panel to turn it on. (as well as adjusting the different settings) ?

Either way there should be a SBX button or similar to turn it on/off on the unit.


----------



## illram

Fotopaul said:


> I also find the DD decoding and virtual sound processing abilities marketed on the website somewhat contradicting.
> 
> Is it possible that it will decode DD, but SBX/virtual surround is only possible if you connect it to a pc and use the control panel to turn it on. (as well as adjusting the different settings) ?
> 
> .



Yeah that's basically what I am hoping is the case. Hopefully I can figure this out in the next two days as that is how long I have to cancel my order.


----------



## Fotopaul

Ok, talked to Creative and they will get back to me. But i seriously doubt SBX is only available on PC, it may be limited if you do not have pc to control it, but i do believe the SBX button on the unit will activate/deactivate SBX on the whole unit, not only on the USB audio.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Creative Live Chat said the following:-

'If the gaming console is connected via optical in, it will support the Dolby Digital Decoding. If connected via USB (PC/Mac), virtual surround can be achieve via Sound Blaster Connect.'


----------



## Yethal

Does it support remote control of any kind? Or do the settings need to be first set on PC and then the entire thing connected to the console (like Recon did) or can we adjust them in real time (like on X7).


----------



## illram

There is no Bluetooth so I think you need to use its PC application to adjust anything. Other than the physical buttons on it. The User Manual also seems to indicate lack of any remote control.


----------



## Yethal

That's painful. X7 got me accustomed to on the fly settings changes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh hell, I only tested on PC and Switch. If the decoding doesn't work on PS4...that's gonna be somewhat of an oversight.

Let me get back to you guys.


----------



## silverthornne

WhiteHartMart said:


> So close to being perfect until I read - Xbox Voice not supported??  Once day we'll get someone other than Astro willing to stump up the stupid Microsoft tax  . Although Creative offering a free H5 headset with orders which once sold could make this a pretty economical purchase for single player on XB and all PS gaming??



I also noticed that it has no battery. As an E5 owner, that really disappointed me. I use the E5 as a portable DAC all the time; the G6 pretty much requires a power bank companion unless you always use it on a desk and if you do, why bother with the portable form factor? Confusing product.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can confirm 1000% that virtual surround is working perfectly fine with PS4. The G6 picks up Dolby Digital, and the surround cues are perfect.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can confirm 1000% that virtual surround is working perfectly fine with PS4. The G6 picks up Dolby Digital, and the surround cues are perfect.


What does the chat mixing look like?


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can confirm 1000% that virtual surround is working perfectly fine with PS4. The G6 picks up Dolby Digital, and the surround cues are perfect.



Awesome. They need to fix that FAQ answer! Seems what they must have meant, as we suspected, is that you need the PC to initiate or change the settings for virtual surround to be active, but you will still have 5.1/7.1 virtual surround over optical once the PC application is used and settings saved to the device.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 27, 2018)

Yethal said:


> What does the chat mixing look like?


I haven't done that sort of testing. That'll have to come later.

But yeah, I just attached an optical cable from ps4 to the G6 and enabled SBX.

It was a short test with CoD Infinite Warfare but it was easily noticeable.

I definitely think you need a PC to change settings though. Like putting surround to max. Unlike the X7, it's only three choices. Off, med, max. Those aren't the names though.

The G6 does have a dedicated sbx button on the side of the unit.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can confirm 1000% that virtual surround is working perfectly fine with PS4. The G6 picks up Dolby Digital, and the surround cues are perfect.



Please tell me that it sounds better than Astro MixAmp Pro TR? Can't wait to try it with HD800S and ModMic

This sounds too good to be true. 
-Virtual surround
-Chat support (PS4)
-Powerful amp +optical out (processing/SBX included)

I just did a preorder from eu site and got Sound BlasterX H5 for free.


----------



## illram

Weird, I didn't get an offer for a free H5. (US)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lay. said:


> Please tell me that it sounds better than Astro MixAmp Pro TR? Can't wait to try it with HD800S and ModMic
> 
> This sounds too good to be true.
> -Virtual surround
> ...


I haven't heard those later Mixamps, but it DEFINITELY sounds better than any Mixamp I've heard.

The fact it also does SBX through it's optical/analog out is also just fantastic if you have better gear.

Like I said, like a cutdown X7.

Not sure I'd use it alone for the HD800S. Aren't those hard to drive?


----------



## Lay. (Aug 27, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard those later Mixamps, but it DEFINITELY sounds better than any Mixamp I've heard.
> 
> The fact it also does SBX through it's optical/analog out is also just fantastic if you have better gear.
> 
> ...



Nice! HD800S is not that hard to drive but definitely benefits from a better Dac/Amp, balanced output etc. Will try it with and without an external amp.


----------



## illram

Does the PS4 output DD+ (7.1) over USB, or is it limited like the Xbox? I.e. Dolby Digital (5.1 max) via optical?


----------



## raband

Optical only I'd say.

2ch over USB on the PS4?


----------



## headphonesonly

illram said:


> Does the PS4 output DD+ (7.1) over USB, or is it limited like the Xbox? I.e. Dolby Digital (5.1 max) via optical?


PS4 can't output 7.1 through usb


----------



## illram

That's what I figured.

So with the G6 becoming the "X7 lite" (I'll come down off the ledge now, thanks MLE for confirming) is there any reason to own a G5? Seems like a redundant product now, since the E5 also exists and has more functionality. (Bluetooth, also has 7.1 SBX, portable...) E5 is the PC/portable virtual surround amp/DAC while the G6 is the not portable cheaper console virtual surround amp/DAC. The X7 is the granddaddy mini-receiver. G5 seems to not serve much purpose in the product line anymore.

It always was a little weird to me that they had the E5 and the G5.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can confirm 1000% that virtual surround is working perfectly fine with PS4. The G6 picks up Dolby Digital, and the surround cues are perfect.



Phew!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to test and respond - as it is, this looks like a great value item now (particularly with the free headset in the UK  )


----------



## Lay. (Aug 28, 2018)

It is really great value in EU. Free shipping, free headset and 2 year warranty for both. 150€

My son will get nice headset with Astro MixAmp


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 28, 2018)

The G6 not having a loicense for DTS is a pity. I'll report about the G6 and consoles once it arrived.
I pondered about a X7 for weeks, this kinda saved me (hopefully), plus it takes less space.


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> That's what I figured.
> 
> So with the G6 becoming the "X7 lite" (I'll come down off the ledge now, thanks MLE for confirming) is there any reason to own a G5? Seems like a redundant product now, since the E5 also exists and has more functionality. (Bluetooth, also has 7.1 SBX, portable...) E5 is the PC/portable virtual surround amp/DAC while the G6 is the not portable cheaper console virtual surround amp/DAC. The X7 is the granddaddy mini-receiver. G5 seems to not serve much purpose in the product line anymore.
> 
> It always was a little weird to me that they had the E5 and the G5.


G5 is what we hoped G6 would be


----------



## Fegefeuer

I remember us pondering about possible AC3 support for the G5 and contacting Creative about it. Then there was the issue of the worst SBX iteration of all products.
Most dissapointing Creative product ever.


----------



## conquerator2

The X7 wasn't that far away when it launched. Abysmal auto detection, unstable software and no native support for processing pass-through unless through a work around.
Some of these things were patched later but I still think it could have been more.
The G6 could have easily been what we all needed back then. Better later then never though!


----------



## AxelCloris

illram said:


> Weird, I didn't get an offer for a free H5. (US)


From the looks of it, it's a pre-order bonus in Europe. Creative's US site shows the G6 as available now, so there's no pre-order freebies thrown in.


----------



## kellte2

Steelseries is now selling its gameDAC solo (no headphone required). Supposedly does DTSHeadphone X 2.0. 

Not going to get me to upgrade from my X7 x Sparkos, but compelling.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

kellte2 said:


> Steelseries is now selling its gameDAC solo (no headphone required). Supposedly does DTSHeadphone X 2.0.
> 
> Not going to get me to upgrade from my X7 x Sparkos, but compelling.



Maybe not selling well enough as a package. Thought the unit was nice when I tried one but sounded poor to me - wonder if the headphones were holding it back? Might try one again with my own headphones now?


----------



## Fotopaul

The G6 seems like a nice unit, but for consoles it will require a PC to get the best out of it, then again so does the X7 unless you want to use the mobile app.


----------



## jinque

G6LAUNCH for $10 off on the US site. Almost bought a G5 last week.. if only US had a free headphones offer too.


----------



## Nekrono

G6 is very tempting to me as someone who is looking into upgrading my audio setup and positional accuracy for games although I have a question that hopefully you guys can help with.

I currently have the AKG Q701 which are fairly hard to drive, I don't have a dedicated amp and my sound card is a Sound Blaster Audigy Fx which has a small amp (which is still unable to drive the Q701 to their fullest as I understand) and also provides me with SBX.

My question is this... Is the SBX from the G6 different/better than the one I currently have? Would the amp on the G6 be better suited to drive my Q701's? Because otherwise I was just going to buy a Schiit Magni 3 and just use the SBX on my sound card.


----------



## illram

G6 offers 7.1 for PC, your current card is 5.1. If that matters.

Can't speak to the amp section beyond Creative's marketing of it.


----------



## headphonesonly

Nekrono said:


> G6 is very tempting to me as someone who is looking into upgrading my audio setup and positional accuracy for games although I have a question that hopefully you guys can help with.
> 
> I currently have the AKG Q701 which are fairly hard to drive, I don't have a dedicated amp and my sound card is a Sound Blaster Audigy Fx which has a small amp (which is still unable to drive the Q701 to their fullest as I understand) and also provides me with SBX.
> 
> My question is this... Is the SBX from the G6 different/better than the one I currently have? Would the amp on the G6 be better suited to drive my Q701's? Because otherwise I was just going to buy a Schiit Magni 3 and just use the SBX on my sound card.


The amp on the g6 I assume has a more powerful amp so if you're not getting enough volume with the sound card then this may be a good upgrade.


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> G6 offers 7.1 for PC, your current card is 5.1. If that matters.
> 
> Can't speak to the amp section beyond Creative's marketing of it.


It doesn't.


----------



## headphonesonly

Pretty sure you can't tell the difference between 5.1 vs 7.1 vss.


----------



## illram (Aug 28, 2018)

I've never really sat down and tried to figure out if there was a quality difference. Half the time I am not even sure a source is actually mixed for 7.1 or 5.1 so, yeah. 

I imagine it would be another variable in these format competitions. (SBX vs. Dolby Headphone vs. GSX and on and on.) Theoretically though, a highly accurate VSS in 7.1 should be better than 5.1 for rear cues, assuming the game or movie is actually mixed with surround rear channels and it is not just upmixing.


----------



## mindbomb (Aug 28, 2018)

headphonesonly said:


> Pretty sure you can't tell the difference between 5.1 vs 7.1 vss.


With 7.1, you can have virtual speakers that are directly behind you, which is pretty good at creating that "oh god, it's right behind me" effect. With 5.1, those rear virtual speakers are usually more to the side.

Panning can help do that with 5.1, so the difference is most noticeable in situations where there is less movement.

This is ultimately why I passed on buying a soundblasterx ae5. You could only set windows up to 5.1 with it.


----------



## Yethal

Saying that 7.1 is better than 5.1 in virtual surround is like saying you should cut the pizza into 8 slices instead of 6 to have more of it


----------



## illram

I mean, theoretically, a speaker behind your head's right ear is going to give you a better rear cue than a speaker to the right of your ear. Again assuming an accurate VSS implementation and an audio source that is actually using that discrete channel and not just a soupy mix of the right and right rear surround.


----------



## Boogie7910

Is there a reason to get the X7 over the G6 if I have my own dac and amp and only interested in the passthrough for vss?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 28, 2018)

headphonesonly said:


> Pretty sure you can't tell the difference between 5.1 vs 7.1 vss.


I second this. You really can't.

In a real speaker setup a real speaker behind you makes more difference. In a 7.1 virtualized into tewo speakers, it's essentially the same. In VSS, I tried, and rear cues sounds the same regardless of whether it's 5.1 or 7.1. The bigger factor is WHICH VSS you're using. Some do better than others.


----------



## Nekrono

Thanks for the responses guys, since the amps capabilities to drive the Q701 correctly are inconclusive and the SBX on it seems to be the same as on my Audigy FX card I think I might be better off just getting a Schiit Magni to drive the heaphones and still get SBX VSS.


----------



## lenroot77 (Aug 29, 2018)

Very excited to check the G6 out, hope they get them shipped out quickly. I was also considering getting an X7 again, but this is perfect timing. 

I’d agree with some of ya... this sounds like what the G5 should have been. That was a very disappointing experience. 

Think I’ll just be using the sbx to process for my PS4. 
I’ve been happy enough with the Dolby Headphone and Windows Sonic on the Xbone. 

Haven’t been on here for a while, glad I looked in the other day. I’ve really been enjoying it the Th-900 for games as of late... very fun headphones!



Boogie7910 said:


> Is there a reason to get the X7 over the G6 if I have my own dac and amp and only interested in the passthrough for vss?



Some of the reasons you may prefer the X7 over the G6. You could use the X7 for speakers, the X7 allows for op amp upgrades, the X7 has more connection options and can be controlled remotely by the app.


----------



## mindbomb (Aug 28, 2018)

on 5.1 vs 7.1 -
Dolby digital is limited to 5.1, so in that case, 7.1 support doesn't really matter. The other situation is if you are doing a lot of lateral movements with the mouse/analog sticks, you can listen to the changing channel balance on the virtual rear speakers on 5.1 and get a really good sense of rear direction like that.

But when there is less movement, the extra channels on 7.1 really shines.


----------



## illram

Just for fun, scroll down to the bottom of this and with Chrome play the 7.1 bitstream. With the E5's SBX 7.1 on I can clearly hear the rear surrounds as behind me vs. the R/L surrounds. 

https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html


----------



## Fotopaul

According to Creative support you still need a PC to get Virtual Surround as the drivers are doing the upmix.



			
				Creative Support" said:
			
		

> With regard to your enquiry, please be informed that virtual 7.1 surround requires our custom Creative driver to work. The upmixing is done by the driver which can be downloaded from our support site. The driver only supports Windows PC hence Virtual Surround only works when it is connected to a PC.
> 
> You can connect your Xbox One to the G6 via Optical while the USB is connected to a PC to get Dolby Digital and Virtual 7.1 Surround. Connecting to a PC also supplies power to the G6 unit itself.
> 
> If you require further assistance, please reply to this email and we will get back to you.


----------



## illram (Aug 29, 2018)

Fotopaul said:


> According to Creative support you still need a PC to get Virtual Surround as the drivers are doing the upmix.



Thanks for sharing. That's pretty hoopty if that is how it has to work. I have a PC next to my Xbox anyways so although that's not a problem for me I imagine that is probably a really annoying handicap for 90% of console users.

Also they may just be wrong, I'll see when I get mine. Tech support is not infallible...


----------



## Lay.

Fotopaul said:


> According to Creative support you still need a PC to get Virtual Surround as the drivers are doing the upmix.



Are they talking about the 5.1 to 7.1 upmix or virtual surround in general? 

Everything else on their website indicates that you get the virtual surround from optical port and PC is not needed for that. Even the PS4 diagram shows that you plug both USB (chat? and power) and Optical to PS4. 

PS4

Firmware Version 5.0 or later
Available USB port
Available Optical Out port (for Dolby Digital decoding)
Xbox One

Xbox OS Version 10.0 or later
Available Optical Out port (for Dolby Digital decoding)
External USB Power (not included)
Voice communications not supported


----------



## illram

Lay. said:


> Are they talking about the 5.1 to 7.1 upmix or virtual surround in general?
> 
> Everything else on their website indicates that you get the virtual surround from optical port and PC is not needed for that. Even the PS4 diagram shows that you plug both USB (chat? and power) and Optical to PS4.
> 
> ...



Yeah. Seems like a pretty important detail that they also left out of the user manual. My money is on that support person just being incorrect.


----------



## Fotopaul

They do indeed seem to contradict each other, I replied with a couple of followup questions.


----------



## halcyon

Yethal said:


> It doesn't.



It doesn't _what_? Care to clarify, I don't follow.

As for G5 vs G6 amp differences (that we know of):

*Sound BlasterX G5*
- Output impedance: 2.2Ω
- Headphone amp: TPA6120A2
- Output Power at 32Ω : ~1.84V, 105mW (Low Gain) [assuming amp section is the same as E5, as Creative reps claim]
- ... 300Ω - ~ 1.78V, 109 mW (High Gain)
- ... 600Ω - ~ 5.72V, 54mW (High Gain)

*Sound BlasterX G6*
- Output impedance: 1Ω
- Headphone amp: XAMP Bi-amp [as in AE-5]
- Output Power : if the Xamp implementation is anywhere near the perf of AE-5, it is max  870 mW (at 32 ohms), but I doubt it is as powerful, due to USB 2.0 power limitations (5V @ 0.5A)
- Rumours: first reviewers are saying more power than X7 (as USB powered device, I find this hard to believe, not having seen X7 power routing)

Let's wait for proper unbiased, technical and gaming reviews. The current reviews I've found are basically sponsored infomercials.


----------



## Yethal

halcyon said:


> It doesn't _what_? Care to clarify, I don't follow.
> 
> As for G5 vs G6 amp differences (that we know of):
> 
> ...


It doesn't make any difference whether it's 5.1 or 7.q when it comes to virtual surround.


----------



## halcyon (Aug 29, 2018)

Yethal said:


> It doesn't make any difference whether it's 5.1 or 7.q when it comes to virtual surround.



Oh, that's what you meant. And I fully agree, esp with Creative's algo. On other virtualization algos it could make a difference, but would probably require personal HRTF fitting. The back localization is the most difficult for all algos on headphones (excl. up/down lateral localization for now).

BTW, the Sound BlasterX G6 launch discount promo code '*G6LAUNCH*' does *not work *for the *Europe *Creative store. Just tried it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

We are getting the HX5 though so I guess that evens it (if there's a decent resale value)


----------



## raband

The G6 doesn't even show on the Aussie store.

Guess that means I save more money than any of you this week


----------



## Fegefeuer

CALLING CREATIVE AUS NOW


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

Ok, I'm gonna recheck to see if maybe I fumbled something up. I'm gonna redo it but directly on my PS4 instead of going through the TV. Give me a few minutes.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Maybe there's a firmware coming up to "fix" this. I mean, it has the same SB-AXX1 like the X7. Why should it not be able to apply its SBX filter without a PC's help?


----------



## Fotopaul

Fegefeuer said:


> wow, that's really embarassing. Man, Creative, what the hell. HAVE A PC RUNNING NEXT TO YOUR CONSOLES FOR PROPER SBX


Well i do.. i actually have two Xbox consoles in my office..as well as 3 computers and 3 monitors. 

But I agree to make the G6 software dependent thru the PC drivers limits the use for console heavily.

As already been mentioned USB chat on PS4 and Virtual surround is impossible.


----------



## raband

They would have been better off making a console only unit with a wall wart.

There's enough PC options from them already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll bring this up to them and see what they say. Because I just can't see the logic of not having SBX features decoding Dolby Digital properly and turning it into surround. I mean it DOES, as in the G6 lights up the Dolby Audio light, but it just doesn't virtualize into surround.


----------



## Yethal

Maybe it requires saving the settings to the device beforehand like recon did?


----------



## raband

Yethal said:


> Maybe it requires saving the settings to the device beforehand like recon did?



Does virtual surround work with consoles like the PS4, Xbox and the Nintendo Switch?
Virtual surround only works when connected to PC.

PS4: Looks like VSS/no chat if USB connected to PC or chat/no VSS if USB connected to PS4


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

HOLY COW GUYS, FALSE ALARM!

Ok, so here is where I made the mistake.

Ok, SO, if you tether the USB to the PS4. YOU WILL NOT GET SURROUND.

BUT, if you tether to literally ANYTHING else, SBX WILL FUNCTION CORRECTLY. SO FAR.

My mistake was using the PC usb ports and thinking it had to read from that  I WAS WRONG.

I have since just used my TVs, and a wall usb plug. Surround works perfectly!

So yes, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE TETHERED TO A PC FOR SURROUND.

I'm truly sorry. I'm ashamed to not have tried such a simple thing as using a neutral power source that wasn't sending data. Please forgive me


----------



## raband (Aug 29, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok, SO, if you tether the USB to the PS4. YOU WILL NOT GET SURROUND.
> 
> BUT, if you tether to literally ANYTHING else, SBX WILL FUNCTION CORRECTLY.



So chat OR vss?
Not both?

or,

could USB audio be overriding the TOSlink? (thus no VSS)

Can you try and select audio out from the PS4 to be optical? (while the usb is plugged into the PS4?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> HOLY COW GUYS, FALSE ALARM!
> 
> Ok, so here is where I made the mistake.
> 
> ...



So for single player that's fine - for multiplayer with voice chat, you lose surround capabilities?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In my defense, I never use the TV usb port, nor do I have any neutral power source close to the setup. I had to stretch a cable from another area just to power the G6 independently from the PC and PS4 which have readily available usb ports, but both send data. :/

This is why I messed up into thinking the PC had to be on: it was either I connect the G6 to the PS4, which atm doesn't do virtual surround this way, or connect to the PC which fooled me into thinking it was reading from its drivers to engage proper sbx.

So, again, sorry guys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

raband said:


> So chat OR vss?
> Not both?
> 
> or,
> ...



This. I believe G6 is taking the audio from the USB signal, hence why you aren't getting proper SBX. It overrides and doesn't use the Dolby signal from the toslink out.

I tried forcing digital out - dolby but it looks like the G6 is forced to use the USB. At least right now.

I'm gonna check the software on pc and see if I can do anything to turn that off or something.


----------



## Lay.

How about connecting both to PS4 and playing with settings? Just to enable the chat with surround.

-Primary output port to ‘Digital Out’ (Optical), Dolby Digital 5.1ch,’ under Audio Format, ‘Bitstream’ (Dolby). etc.

– ‘Audio Devices’ and ‘Output to Headphones’ --> ‘All Chat.’


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

BINGO! Set the G6 on ps4 settings to set JUST chat audio. Boom. Surround still works.

Guys, WE HAVE A GO!

G6 is primed for buying!

Again though, make sure that you at least have a computer somewhere to initially set all your settings like sending sbx to other devices via analog/spdif out, and set surround to max.


----------



## raband

Phew.

You owe me a paracetamol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lmao I KNEW something had to be off for the G6 to have so many weird quirks that made no logical sense.

In the end, it was my own idiocy. Gah.

That's what happens when you're not 1000% thorough with all available options.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK, CREATIVE*



Spoiler: :3



status: preparing shipping

I LOVE YOU CREATIVE


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

It's entirely my fault. I KNEW I probably should've waited until after my vacation to check everything, but I know you guys were excited and wanted to know things about it, hence why I decided to just connect it and give some quick (if unthorough) impressions.

Thankfully, you guys caught my mistakes early.

It doesn't help that I have very little experience with the chat functions on the PS4. Back when I chatted regularly, I would just connect a headset directly to the controller. These settings are actually pretty new to me.


----------



## Lay. (Aug 29, 2018)

It is a bit odd that there is no PS4 settings to be found in the manual (I did not find), but I guess they are the same settings than with MixAmp

Ps. Thank you for trying. Now I don't have to cancel the preorder


----------



## Fotopaul

Well, I would rather blame creative..

1. Their own employees do not know what they are talking about as they claimed with certainty that to get full VSS you need a PC.
2. There are contradicting info on their own website, in the listed features as well as in the FAQ.
3. If it does work without a PC there are still a few hoops to go thru to get it working properly, neither which is explained in any detail in the Manual or QG.

So don't beat your self up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 29, 2018)

Fotopaul said:


> Well, I would rather blame creative..
> 
> 1. Their own employees do not know what they are talking about as they claimed with certainty that to get full VSS you need a PC.
> 2. There are contradicting info on their own website, in the listed features as well as in the FAQ.
> ...



I guess in a sense they're not lying as I do believe you still need a pc at first to enable 5.1/7.1 as well as having the better form of SBX. I think at default without a PC the SBX surround is medium, and may not mix down 7.1/5.1 properly. I can't be certain since connecting it to the pc and adjusting everything was the very first thing I did.

Then again, maybe enabling 7.1 or whatnot is only related to its usb function on pc, as that setting on ps4 is fine on the ps4 itself.

Not sure.

Otherwise, yes, I think they may have made mistakes in their manuals. I haven't gone through that stuff myself. Not yet.

One thing I will say is that I much prefer the X7's software over the G6's. The G6 seems a bit more confusing, whereas the X7 has easy to follow options.


----------



## Got the Shakes

kellte2 said:


> Steelseries is now selling its gameDAC solo (no headphone required). Supposedly does DTSHeadphone X 2.0.
> 
> Not going to get me to upgrade from my X7 x Sparkos, but compelling.





WhiteHartMart said:


> Maybe not selling well enough as a package. Thought the unit was nice when I tried one but sounded poor to me - wonder if the headphones were holding it back? Might try one again with my own headphones now?



I had the Arctis Pro headset with the GameDAC for like two days when it launched and returned it. I didn’t like the way it sounded, and even with the included headset the volume was quite low.


----------



## Fotopaul

Well, i don't think they are lying..  I just think they do not know their own product as well as they should. Secondly all this should of course be covered in detail in the manual. 

Still find it kind of interesting that Creative claimed the VSS is software driven and depended on the drivers... if that where the case you would simply not get VSS processing without a PC running the drivers.


----------



## Fotopaul

TB just released a new HUB with Windows sonic and DTS Xheadphones for consoles Xbox/PS4.

http://corp.turtlebeach.com/media-r...-superamp-pro-performance-gaming-audio-system


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My irritation with those products is how they sell a version for each system.

WHY CAN'T THEY SELL ONE UNIT THAT WORKS WITH ALL? I guess that's too 2011 for them now and they need to bombard us with derivatives for each device you own? It's so anti-consumer.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> BINGO! Set the G6 on ps4 settings to set JUST chat audio. Boom. Surround still works.
> 
> Guys, WE HAVE A GO!
> 
> ...


Almost gave me a heart attack man


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's really a good thing I decided to redo the testing. I had a feeling I may have screwed something up and in the end found that almost EVERYTHING was wrong.


----------



## Fegefeuer

DTS Headphone X didn't impress me over HeSuVi tbh and I have no faith in TB, even though I kinda liked the DSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My friend has an Arctis Pro that I probably should check out, but I KNOW the damn thing won't fit my head. I was blessed with a hell of a noggin.


----------



## illram

Fotopaul said:


> TB just released a new HUB with Windows sonic and DTS Xheadphones for consoles Xbox/PS4.
> 
> http://corp.turtlebeach.com/media-r...-superamp-pro-performance-gaming-audio-system



Am I reading that right? Press release (man who writes these) says Windows Sonic for Xbox, and DTS Headphone for PS4. 

Seems useless for Xbox; you can get Sonic for free out of the console into whatever headphone or amp you want...


----------



## Fotopaul

Yes apart from the USB chat on XBOX it doesn't seem to offer much..


----------



## Nekrono (Aug 29, 2018)

So I just found out about HeSuVi and how to get all VSS options included with it. I have to ask... do they sound like the real deal?

I tried it briefly but the only "hardware" based VSS that I've heard is SBX from my basic Audigy FX card and I have to say it sounded a bit different but maybe it's due to different EQ settings that I set on my Audigy card, also I installed HeSuVi on the mobo's output instead of my Audigy card which has a bit less power to drive my headphones.

Anyways I'm not really knowledgeable on the matter so I'm asking the pros, can I expect the same results on HeSuVi from the actual hardware for each VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're not 1:1. Some sound similar, some don't. Personally I'll just take the real deal considering I already have it. But for those that don't, it's nice to try out I guess.


----------



## Nekrono (Aug 29, 2018)

Yeah that's what I thought, it's nice as a baseline I would say.

I do have to say that out of the few I tried Atmos really blew me away, the sound accuracy was insane, I really felt immersed in BF1 and the sound signature wasn't bad, maybe a bit on the bassy side. 

I was looking to try out Sennheiser's GSX the most as I've heard a lot of good things from it but I wasn't really impressed, I felt Atmos provided better accuracy and sound signature than GSX + but maybe it just sounds much better on the actual hardware.

Also I only messed with HeSuVi for like 40 minutes so it's just my initial impression.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nekrono said:


> Yeah that's what I thought, it's nice as a baseline I would say.
> 
> I do have to say that out of the few I tried Atmos really blew me away, the sound accuracy was insane, I really felt immersed in BF1 and the sound signature wasn't bad, maybe a bit on the bassy side.
> 
> ...


The GSX is one of the ones that don't sound like the real thing. Real GSX is considerably better.


----------



## Nekrono

Yeah that's what I thought, I'll still keep the GSX in my sights, maybe I'll bite in a sale


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why? GSX is a nice VSS but it's packaged into a low-fi limpy device. Yes, the UI and operation are well made but that's all.
I'd pick one for 49€ and use it with a PC37X, not more. I'd rather get SBX from HeSuVi, a SBZ and go full force (optical out) into a nice Modi stack and rout the mic cable from your onboard audio or anything else to the mic connector of your headset.


----------



## Nekrono

You are right, personally I find the GSX really overpriced, I would definitely get one if the amp was good enough for my Q701's.

Right now I have an Audigy FX which has SBX and the amp even though not great it does provide a little bit more volume than the onboard chip so I'm just getting a Magni 3 in the upcoming months and call it a day, at least until I'm hungry for another VSS or Sennheiser is able to provide their GSX VSS on a cheaper/better product.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> Why? GSX is a nice VSS but it's packaged into a low-fi limpy device. Yes, the UI and operation are well made but that's all.
> I'd pick one for 49€ and use it with a PC37X, not more. I'd rather get SBX from HeSuVi, a SBZ and go full force (optical out) into a nice Modi stack and rout the mic cable from your onboard audio or anything else to the mic connector of your headset.



It's funny you say that. I think the GSX1000 is my fave *sounding *gaming amp of ALL gaming amps. I like the sound off it even more than the X7.  If Sennheiser made one with a line out/optical out like the G6/X7, I'd go straight for that. It just sucks that it's so limited.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's funny you say that. I think the GSX1000 is my fave *sounding *gaming amp of ALL gaming amps. I like the sound off it even more than the X7.  If Sennheiser made one with a line out/optical out like the G6/X7, I'd go straight for that. It just sucks that it's so limited.



Ditto, I like it just as much. I'm happy with the analog out connected to my HDVA600 though.


----------



## HairyHook

AppleheadMay said:


> Ditto, I like it just as much. I'm happy with the analog out connected to my HDVA600 though.


Can you elaborate on the sound difference with and without the amp? I want to add an amp to the chain too. Thanks in advance!


----------



## AppleheadMay

HairyHook said:


> Can you elaborate on the sound difference with and without the amp? I want to add an amp to the chain too. Thanks in advance!



I mainly use it to power more difficult to drive cans like the K7XX, HD800S and HD650. The GSX isn't really pwerful enough for those.


----------



## HairyHook

Thanks. I'm using 660s and I feel that the GSX's amp is not enough to drive them how they are supposed to sound. Wanted to add a Magni 3 or O2 to see if it improves the sound quality, separation, imaging, etc.


----------



## AppleheadMay

HairyHook said:


> Thanks. I'm using 660s and I feel that the GSX's amp is not enough to drive them how they are supposed to sound. Wanted to add a Magni 3 or O2 to see if it improves the sound quality, separation, imaging, etc.



I find it to be still ok with the 660S but not great, it gets a lot better from my amp.
I wouldn't advise the Magni 3 though, I had that amp and it's nice for it's price but that says it all.
Don't know the O2.


----------



## illram

I'm a big fan of iFi's ICAN SE although it is a bit more than the Magni 3.... but it is a powerful amp with a lot of features.


----------



## mindbomb

I did a frequency sweep on a virtual channel from dolby headphone from my xonar card and the one from hesuvi, and they were exactly the same, and hesuvi appeared to be lower latency, with ostensibly higher cpu usage since it is cpu based. I'm not sure how the convolution process works, so maybe the snr isn't as good as the real deal, but for gaming purposes, I think hesuvi is fine. The windows sonic and dolby atmos for headphones in hesuvi are, imo, actually more useful than the real ones due to weird windows quirks.

I always thought the biggest hurdle to headphone virtual surround sound becoming more mainstream was lowered cost. But even post-hesuvi, people are still generally choosing to use stereo in games due to misguided beliefs. Gotta spread the word!


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree. Most usable are SBX 100, a few CMSS variants for a touch of Beyer sound and DHT/DHP. GSX is not the real deal and while some others are interesting they require tweaking aka wasting your time. Just fire up one of these and you are really good to go. 

I actually like the Dolby Access plugin for Atmos movies. Multiplying everything with the Burrito Filter and you are in for a nice treat.


----------



## BrightCandle

I definitely prefer the surround sound implementation of the GSX 1000, it is a lot more natural sounding than SBX Pro. I did recently try some software available on Steam called  Spartial Sound Card  and saying it performs very similarly to SBX Pro is I guess faint praise but it is also a nice simple solution that works simply and cheaply. Hesuvi has all sorts of issues to setup and run so I do find it a more straight forward solution. Doesn't compete with the GSX 1000, nothing I know of does yet.


----------



## mindbomb

Fegefeuer said:


> I agree. Most usable are SBX 100, a few CMSS variants for a touch of Beyer sound and DHT/DHP. GSX is not the real deal and while some others are interesting they require tweaking aka wasting your time. Just fire up one of these and you are really good to go.



The older builds of hesuvi had mistakenly left on one of the EQ settings on the gsx. Do you find issues with the newer builds still?


----------



## headphonesonly

BrightCandle said:


> I definitely prefer the surround sound implementation of the GSX 1000, it is a lot more natural sounding than SBX Pro. I did recently try some software available on Steam called  Spartial Sound Card  and saying it performs very similarly to SBX Pro is I guess faint praise but it is also a nice simple solution that works simply and cheaply. Hesuvi has all sorts of issues to setup and run so I do find it a more straight forward solution. Doesn't compete with the GSX 1000, nothing I know of does yet.


SBX to me sounds the most natural. GSX with the reverb turned off (no + signs) still has way to much reverb. But I seem to be in the minority here.


----------



## headphonesonly

My creative g6 comes in today can’t wait to try it out.


----------



## illram (Aug 30, 2018)

I got mine yesterday and had a fun 3 hours rewiring my whole computer/Xbox area where I put it, to get rid of a whole bunch of extraneous audio stuff I don't need anymore. I can't speak to it's amp quality as I am running an iFi Black Label out of it. I will say that its EQ software is pretty nice vs the X7, there is a fun "pencil" feature where you literally draw the EQ you want and it does it. I switched from my ESP950 to my LCD2C so initial sound impressions wouldn't be accurate given these two cans sound super different. And I would like to see MLE's impression/review before I say anything more.

I wish Creative products didn't all have their own software though, why can't they all just use the same program? I am a heavy EQ user and have presets for all my cans and I always have to do it all over again for all their products.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 30, 2018)

I haven't had a real sit down to test the Sonic qualities but I THINK it's on the lean/bright side in terms of balance.

I didn't change the phase roll off or whatnot from it's default, so that may make a difference.

That's why I still like the GSX1000 the most. It has a really natural timbre.

The G6 should pair up best with warm headphones.


----------



## illram

Yeah I didn't mess with that, what does that do exactly? I tried reading about it a bit, have not had a chance to really mess with it to test, and am still a little confused about the purpose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not 100% but I did have Audio GD gear with similar options. I think it's supposed to very subtly change the very top end to reduce the way treble peaks and what not. I don't know enough so I left it alone even back then.


----------



## Fegefeuer

this explains a bit of it

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2013/06/measurements-digital-filters-and.html


----------



## lenroot77

Received my G6 earlier, it’s clearly receiving The Dolby signal from my PS4 as the led is lit up. I was able to get the sound sent out to my dac/amp and I’m liking what I’m hearing so far.

Has anyone tried the game/chat adjustments using the PS4? I was able to toggle between the two... but wasn’t in a chat to actually test it. 

My only complaint so far is I do not have a pc by my consoles so I need to run downstairs to make adjustments.


----------



## illram

It's funny, this little thing popped up right when I was starting to sort of get used to, and like, Atmos for Headphones on the Xbox. Half of me wants to finish out my 30 day free trial before really putting the G6 through its paces...


----------



## DrKrFfXx

I just ordered the G6. It comes with a freeby, the Sound Blaster X H5 headset. Probably won't use it, but hey, it's free real state.


----------



## headphonesonly

Im really liking the g6 so far. One major issue i been having is the g6 sometimes will glichout and cut out all audio. I would have to unplug and replug just to get it to work again. And when I activate the bass feature, it will just completely cut all the bass out and start distorting the sound. So I don’t know what is up with that.


----------



## Fotopaul

Got som answers to my follow up questions from Creative today.



			
				Creative support said:
			
		

> 1.) _When the G6 is connected directly to the Xbox and not to a PC, is the DD surround signal from the Xbox down mixed to 2.0 stereo in the G6 ?_
> 
> *Yes, it will be downmixed to Dolby Digital Stereo while retaining all audio channels from the surround source. *
> 
> ...



So it seems we are talking about two different VSS ? SBX surround and Virtual 7.1 VSS in Windows ?


----------



## Lay. (Aug 31, 2018)

Hmmm. This guy is talking about hardware dolby decoding for consoles, 7.1 / 5.1 content virtualization for headphones. Doesn't mention any need for PC creative drivers


----------



## raband

Lay. said:


> Doesn't mention any need for PC creative drivers



Yeah, was a false alarm caused by badly worded FAQ's, chat support that had zero idea and setups that need settings changed.


----------



## Fotopaul

So can anyone explain the latest answer where creative differentiate between SBX surround and VSS 7.1 mixed by the creative drivers ?


----------



## Yethal

Fotopaul said:


> So can anyone explain the latest answer where creative differentiate between SBX surround and VSS 7.1 mixed by the creative drivers ?


It seems not even Creative can do that


----------



## raband

SBX is 5.1?


----------



## Fotopaul

raband said:


> SBX is 5.1?



Yes that is my suspicion also, will be interesting to hear Creatives response.

If that's the case, does the driver upmix the dolby digital signal from the optical in to 7.1 ? 

Still belive the difference in 5.1/7.1 VSS is minimal at best.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 31, 2018)

I don't have an answer to that but what I will say is that regardless if what it does and IF there's a difference, console SBX vs PC SBX on the G6 is a WASH. It's not going to sound inferior, and the surround cues are just as good as on the X7.

That to me is the most important part. It sucks that I'm on vacation and can't spend any real time doing A/B comparisons between the X7 and G6, but I would say if I had to make a choice TODAY between the two, I would definitely get the G6 with a Modi (one that has optical input), and a Magni or some equivalent. I would assume that combo would have a better dac/amp than the X7 as a standalone. There cost would be around the same too, maybe cheaper. The G6 would be my SBX source while the Modi is my dac, and Magni is the amp.

I don't have any real complaints about the X7, but as a reviewer, I would like something more headfiers are accustomed to. More power from the Magni would be nice to over the X7.


----------



## illram

I tried the 7.1 test on PC I linked earlier with the G6 and I clearly heard the rear surrounds, just like the E5.

I don't think the Creative tech chat person knows what they are talking about. SBX is their proprietary VSS algorithm whether it is 5.1 or 7.1.


----------



## Fegefeuer

it sometimes switches to speaker mode without me doing anything, anybody else got this problem?


----------



## Fleshless

as this is probably the best place to ask this kind of question i will post it here also.
i hope it´s ok if i copy and paste most of it here:

Hi everyone,

about 4 years ago i bought an iFi micro iDSD and a Philips Fidelio X2 and i´m still very happy with this combo.
But since then things changed and i rarely listen to music on my PC anymore.
What i mostly do is play games and watch Youtube Videos/Twitch Streams.

So i asked myself if it wouldn´t be better to get a Creative X7 or a Sennheiser GSX1000 or something similar for gaming and just sell the micro iDSD.

My first idea was to just get a Wireless gaming headset but then i remembered back how all headsets i ever had (including stuff like Sennheiser PC350/360) sounded pretty poor in comparison to the Fidelio X2.

So, what do you guys think, would it be a good idea to "downgrade" or would i sacrifice to much?


Greetings Fleshless


----------



## headphonesonly

Fegefeuer said:


> it sometimes switches to speaker mode without me doing anything, anybody else got this problem?


I also had this problem. I fixed it by going to the software settings tab and resetting it to factory default.


----------



## illram

Fleshless said:


> as this is probably the best place to ask this kind of question i will post it here also.
> i hope it´s ok if i copy and paste most of it here:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> ...



I would first try one of the many free or low cost PC surround options (Windows Sonic, Waves Nx, HeSuVi, Atmos) and keep the iDSD.


----------



## headphonesonly

Fleshless said:


> as this is probably the best place to ask this kind of question i will post it here also.
> i hope it´s ok if i copy and paste most of it here:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> ...


I would definitely get the GSX if all you do is game and watch videos. And it sounds good with music so your not really gonna sacrifice anything.


----------



## illram (Aug 31, 2018)

Has anyone got "direct" mode on the G6 to work on line-out? I can't get it working via optical.

Edit: just to show I am a dummy, there is also a "direct" option under the speakers tab, which is what you need to check for line-out...(even though the headphones tab includes a line-out option)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 31, 2018)

To be fair, the software for the G6 needs a LOT if work. Like, I think it's a step back to the X7's software. It's confusing despite it having less things to interact with compared to the X7's software.

I second the GSX1000 for the guy with the X2. For not so hard to drive headphones, I love the GSX1000 the most, assuming all you do is use a PC. 

I'd also get a Vmoda BoomPro so you turn the X2 into a headset. Really no need for a secondary headset if you have the X2 + boompro cable.


----------



## Fleshless

Thanks for the answers so far guys.

So the GSX1000 is preferable to the Creative stuff for my use scenario?


----------



## mindbomb

One interesting thing about the gsx1000 is the sidetone mic feature, which allows you to use closed headphones with no occlusion effect. I was wondering if anyone combined that with active noise cancelling headphones, and then just maxed out all their pc fans... would it be getting better temps for free?


----------



## Fotopaul

Fleshless said:


> Thanks for the answers so far guys.
> 
> So the GSX1000 is preferable to the Creative stuff for my use scenario?



Depends, I personally do not favour GSX over SBX for surround. (more reverb on the GSX, like on the Mixamp) 

 The GSX is a nice unit though, well built and has physical controls, unlike the Creative solution which is mostly controlled by the software. Which in my case is preferable as I use my X7 for both my Mac and Xbox.

I to use the X2HR and for gaming and video, I find them very good. For music, there are certainly better headphones, not necessarily at a better price though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 1, 2018)

The reverb is fine on the GSX. Just use the One plus setting, not the two plus. Virtual surround tech will always have reverb. SBX has the least amount of reverb which is great, but I still think GSX edges it out in virtual surround capabilities. In any case, GSX reverb is nothing like Dolby Headphone reverb which was excessive. If you have ever heard Dolby Headphone, GSX reverb is a gift from god in comparison.

I also think the GSX is the best sounding dac/amp of the gaming amps especially when you're not using GSX surround when listening to music/other non gaming uses. You ARE limiting yourself from to JUST  usb, so if you want something more versatile I would definitely recommend the Creative G6 instead, or the X7 if you wanna keep everything to just one unit and need a stronger amp. The G6 is more cost effective and will let you pair it with a great audiophile dac/amp which you can probably find for around the X7 price altogether if not around that price range.

I wish the GSX1000 had input and outputs with analog/spdif like the G6/X7 and allowed sending of GSX surround through them. That would be the ultimate device for me, really. @Sennheiser please give us this.


----------



## Fotopaul

To you it's fine of course, to me it's not.  It's less than on the latest MixAmp but still very noticeable to me. 

The GSX would be a much more complete unit if simply allowed an optical input, it also lacks the option to use an external DAC.

What I do like about the GSX (1200 which I tested) is the build, compared to the X7 and G5 (which tested) the creative feels plastic and flimsy in comparison, then again you rarely need to touch the creative units as you do everything in the software.


----------



## Fleshless

will just use the Fidelio X2 with a BoomPro and some cheap Logitech 2.0 speakers (use them once in a blue moon so they are enough for me) so the GSX should be fine.
Is there any good comparison Video between SBX and the GSX 7.1 that i could look at/listen to to make up my mind which technology i prefer?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 1, 2018)

Fleshless said:


> will just use the Fidelio X2 with a BoomPro and some cheap Logitech 2.0 speakers (use them once in a blue moon so they are enough for me) so the GSX should be fine.
> Is there any good comparison Video between SBX and the GSX 7.1 that i could look at/listen to to make up my mind which technology i prefer?


I haven't seen anything lately. And from every single video I've seen, they don't sound like the real thing to my ears.

All I can say is that both GSX and SBX are among the best. You really would be fine with either. I wouldn't choose a device simply based off one or the other, but what the devices do aside from that. The GSX1000 is in reality vastly limited and I wouldn't normally recommend it for people like me who need things for consoles or external devices like dac/amps, unless you're fine with double amping from the headphone jack. Some of us are fine doing that, most audiophiles aren't.

But the GSX1000 sounds so good to me, that I make an exception for it.  This is my recommendation. Fotopaul has his tastes and that's fine. You can't go wrong either way, and the G6 IS more versatile. I just think it's less appealing if you're using it as the only device. The GSX1000 has a better dac, I feel. The amp is better on the G6 and has more volume headroom. Though for stuff like the X2, the GSX1000 is fine. In raw form, the GSX1000 sounds better, virtual surround differences aside. If you're like me who uses virtual surround mainly for gaming and stereo for the rest, GSX1000 is my vote. If you always use virtual surround, maybe the SBX is better if you want the least reverb, but then again (from my limited testing) I believe the tonal balance sounds dry and sharp in comparison to the GSX1000s more organic, fleshy, natural tonal balance, which I think is suitable for the X2.

In short:

One device for your needs: GSX1000

One device you may wanna pair up with other stuff: Creative G6

One device that has a good internal dac/strongest gaming amp and plan on no upgrades in the future but costs more: Creative X7


----------



## Fleshless

thank you very much for the very detailed answer.
i probably will just bite the bullet with the GSX1000.
i like that it is a little all in one device with no extra drivers and you can control everything on the device itself and it gets a lot of praise for the VSS so i´m sure i will be happy with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh yeah I forgot about the fact it's all on the device. It's REALLY easy to use.


----------



## mindbomb (Sep 1, 2018)

I also like the gsx1000 mainly because of how intuitive it is. I think the soundblasterx ae5 has a really good dac (honestly, better than what the small audiophile companies can make), but the setup is confusing, the virtual surround sound is only 5.1. It's not a huge deal, but these oversights show a lack of care that I find disturbing.

With the gsx1000, I think it is fine for gaming, but it triggers some of my audiophile anxieties. At its pricepoint, it needs an ESS dac, and it needs to support 24 bit with 7.1 input. If they ever make a second generation of these products, that's what I would look for. Also, some pre-baked EQ settings for different sennheiser headphones would be nice.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 1, 2018)

The GSX1000 is sureally good in terms of effects (sourround credibility), timbre and usability. But I think the sound clarity/overall quality and amp capabilities could be better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 1, 2018)

I think it's less the clarity and more it's the Sennheiser house sound. I actually think it sounds effortless and grain free. It's smooth and inviting. Almost tube-like.

You can always just use a clearer preset if that is your kind of thing.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 1, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think it's less the clarity and more it's the Sennheiser house sound. I actually think it sounds effortless and grain free. It's smooth and inviting. Almost tube-like.
> 
> You can always just use a clearer preset if that is your kind of thing.



There is something about the GSX that feels "Lo-Fi", it is not like that Senn veil, which is something I've grown to like, or an analogic tube feel to it, but something else. Resolving clarity, it feels like my cheapo old phone in some instances, it becomes overwhelmed when much stuff happens at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, I am in love with the other capabilities of the GSX, but at that price, it could have been using a discrete amp at the least.

Although I only use Sennheiser headphones, could it be that Senn Veil (amp) + Senn Veil (HD650/HD58x/Momentum M2/PC373D/Game One/Game Zero) doesn't pair well? It is nonsense they chose a sound signature that hinders their own headphones performance.


----------



## Vader2k

Probably a silly question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I just want to clarify. If you don't have a DAC, you can still hook an amp up to the line out/optical of the G6, right? But then I wonder if that's even necessary?

For my potential use case, I'd plan to use my TH-X00s. Is the G6 amp capable enough for them or would I benefit adding my Magni 2U into the chain?


----------



## illram (Sep 1, 2018)

Vader2k said:


> Probably a silly question and I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I just want to clarify. If you don't have a DAC, you can still hook an amp up to the line out/optical of the G6, right? But then I wonder if that's even necessary?
> 
> For my potential use case, I'd plan to use my TH-X00s. Is the G6 amp capable enough for them or would I benefit adding my Magni 2U into the chain?



G6 amp can get it loud but I just tried it vs an external amp and on the G6 alone, the TH-X00's were missing some body. This was immediately apparent; the pleasing deep bass presence of these cans was missing some oomph on Hotel California.

However I have found few audio deficiencies on these various Creative products that I cannot alleviate (or at least fake) with some basic EQ'ing. I tried the above "flat" with all SBX off and in stereo. Maybe cheating for audiophiles but I don't care, really.

In other news, in my continuing obsession with Creative's crappy software, when switching between headphone out and line out, the G6 decides to revert all your profiles to old settings, for some reason. I cannot get the profiles to just stick (e.g. each have their own EQ setting, etc.) Annoying. I tried all my headphones last night, over the course of an hour, on what I thought was a flat EQ preset and now I am not sure if it was flat.


----------



## Boogie7910

coupon code G6LAUNCH for $10 off


----------



## BearMonster

Fotopaul said:


> So can anyone explain the latest answer where creative differentiate between SBX surround and VSS 7.1 mixed by the creative drivers ?



i don't own the creative g6 but i own the soundblaster ae5 which sounds like the same thing the rep is talking about with the vss. I am guessing this card is actually 5.1 however like the soundblaster ae5 in order to have it play 7.1 you need to play a game that allows you to change the speaker channel to 7.1 in game options where it will upmix the 5.1 to 7.1.

Though this is completely stupid by creative as most games just autodetect your default playback device and checks how many channels it has & only a few games nowdays actually allow you to change the amount of speaker channels.


----------



## illram (Sep 1, 2018)

When I select 7.1 on the G6 software though, Windows automatically changes my speaker config to 7.1. It actually is pretty consistent in switching the windows config, unlike prior products (X7, E5) where sometimes I had to make sure windows was following along. I don't think you are limited to games that allow that speaker config as it works on other audio tests I have tried that are using windows' default. (By that I mean, if the game supports 7.1 via looking at the windows default, it will work.)


----------



## BearMonster (Sep 1, 2018)

illram said:


> When I select 7.1 on the G6 software though, Windows automatically changes my speaker config to 7.1. It actually is pretty consistent in switching the windows config, unlike prior products (X7, E5) where sometimes I had to make sure windows was following along. I don't think you are limited to games that allow that speaker config as it works on other audio tests I have tried that are using windows' default. (By that I mean, if the game supports 7.1 via looking at the windows default, it will work.)



If the g6 offer 7.1 back at windows that would mean games  that auto detect default playback will always play in 7.1. But i was refering to my ae5 which is  5.1 selecting 7.1 on the software will still make windows see it as 5.1, the 7.1 does not exist back in windows sound control panel. The only way to make the ae5 play in 7.1 is to play a game that offers changing channels.


----------



## illram (Sep 1, 2018)

BearMonster said:


> If the g6 offer 7.1 back at windows that would mean games  that auto detect default playback will always play in 7.1. But i was refering to my ae5 which is is 5.1 selecting 7.1 on the software will still make windows see it as 5.1, the 7.1 does not exist back in windows sound control panel. The only way to make the ae5 play in 7.1 is to play a game that offers changing channels.



Ah I see. Well, it sounds like the G6 is offering "real" 7.1 then vs the AE5. I still say the tech person is just not explaining things correctly. This is probably someone who has never used it and is unfamiliar with it just looking at a spec sheet or reading a script.

If I were King of  Creative Tech Support I would simply explain this as follows: The G6 offers 5.1 and 7.1 virtual surround channels. A PC is required to initially enable virtual surround settings and to make changes to G6 audio settings.

Done!


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Boogie7910 said:


> coupon code G6LAUNCH for $10 off



In Spain, the G6 comes with this headset for free.

https://es.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blasterx-h5

It's a crazy deal if you ask me.


----------



## mindbomb

The g6 supports 7.1 in windows? That's pretty awesome.


----------



## Boogie7910

DrKrFfXx said:


> In Spain, the G6 comes with this headset for free.
> 
> https://es.creative.com/p/gaming-headsets/sound-blasterx-h5
> 
> It's a crazy deal if you ask me.



good deal. where is deal page for that? I wonder if I could buy it from the spain and get the deal.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 1, 2018)

Boogie7910 said:


> good deal. where is deal page for that? I wonder if I could buy it from the spain and get the deal.



https://es.creative.com/p/amplifiers/sound-blasterx-g6#buy-menu

Once you click on buy ("COMPRAR"), the headset become available for free before adding the item to the cart ("Añadir a la Cesta").


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll have to respectfully disagree about the GSX sounding lofi. Even comparing to the X7LE, it undoubtedly sounds better to my ears.

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## jinque

got the G6, but i can't seem to get optical out to work.. i went into setup, speakers, and tried both the direct and spidf out direct buttons but nothing (output is set to speakers). am i doing something wrong? thanks.


----------



## illram

jinque said:


> got the G6, but i can't seem to get optical out to work.. i went into setup, speakers, and tried both the direct and spidf out direct buttons but nothing (output is set to speakers). am i doing something wrong? thanks.



On the "headphones" tab, find the drop down "Apply Headphone Virtualization to" menu and then select Line and Optical Out.


----------



## jinque

sweet, works now. saw that option earlier and i thought i had tried it.. but guess not. thanks!


----------



## illram (Sep 2, 2018)

jinque said:


> sweet, works now. saw that option earlier and i thought i had tried it.. but guess not. thanks!



Yeah I'm not a huge fan of this software. Intuitive, easy to use GUIs are not Creative's strong suit apparently.

-----------------------------------

On a different topic... I feel like either the DAC implementation, or the BlasterX software, or just the amp...something...is not as good as the E5. (And by extension probably the X7.) Neither of those use "BlasterX," and I think there is a difference (if I remember correctly) between BlasterX and the software used on the E5 and X7 if I remember correctly? I think BlasterX is used on the G5, also there is a free version of it available from Creative. Like the G6, the BlasterX I am familiar with does not allow more granular fine tuning of the surround level, unlike the E5 and X7, which do. So although the G6 uses the same chip as the X7, my suspicion is the audio software is different.

Putting aside those differences, I actually believe this mostly based on the EQ quality of the G6 vs. the E5. One example: Hotel California, which is my go to test song, if you bump up 125hz to the max 12db, it is still listenable on the E5. A little boomy, too deep, but still listenable. On the G6 it becomes completely, totally unlistenable goopy blob, like my head is underwater. Same for the other bass frequencies which is all I tested tonight. At + 6db on the E5 it is even nice and deep at 62hz, on the G6 it is OK but there is a lot of distorted bloat to the slam of the bass. For example 6db @125 & 62hz, at 03:56 on Hotel California listening to the drums, it is deep, slam, not boomy... on the G6 it is very different. Honestly it sounds like I remember the E3 bass sounding when you turned it up too high.

Even flat, when I cue in on certain parts of the song, for instance the two "boom boom" slams of the bass drum at 00:53 at the beginning of Hotel California, the E5 sounds better. Deeper, more resolving bass in my HE-400i. G6 sounds a hair less impactful and less body.

None of this is scientific, I didn't use a volume meter or do this blind or anything. Just tried to adjust by ear and go back and forth (for a while, lots of times.) I have heard this song thousands of times, probably, so I feel comfortable making these comparisons.

Curious when this is out there in more experienced hands if impressions will be similar. MLE I hope I am not stepping on your toes offering these drips of initial impressions before your review is out. Not my intent and I am very much looking forward to your review. This is purely speaking to the music quality, not the virtual surround. For the VSS, I remember my initial impressions are the VSS when implemented has more edge, is a little shriller and brighter than both the E5 and X7, but I have not been able to really sit down and compare rigorously so was hesitant to put it out there. (This is based on playing Call of Duty which I have 21 days of total game time on, so for audio stuff I find a lot of things immediately apparent when switching.) But I am beginning to think this product for whatever reason is not of the same caliber as those two, decoding aside. For the X7 I would understand why, the the E5 it is sort of confusing.

All of this was on stereo, all effects off except for when the EQ was engaged, on an HE-400i straight out of each unit with no external amp.


----------



## Blackhaired77

I need your advice guys

I was thinkin of buying custom studio headphone (need closed back headphone) with v-boompro mic and go with a soundcard and might go with amp+-dac later

From what i read through your discussion found the gsx 1000 better in term of software

But really the g6 offer that include h5 headset looks irresistable as i might go later with open back headphones later

So would this offer be really good or just stick to gsx 1000 and custom studio

Custom studio + vboompro + gsx1000 = 420$ 
G6+h5=263$

These prices including shipping cost and according to where i live

I am really noob when it comes to audio stuff and looking to use virtual surround for fps games on pc and also listening to music

<3


----------



## Yethal

Blackhaired77 said:


> I need your advice guys
> 
> I was thinkin of buying custom studio headphone (need closed back headphone) with v-boompro mic and go with a soundcard and might go with amp+-dac later
> 
> ...


G6+h5 hands down


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Blackhaired77 said:


> am really noob when it comes to audio stuff and looking to use virtual surround for fps games on pc and also listening to music
> 
> <3



It seems my G6 arrives tommorrow, so I'll be able to AB test it against my GSX 1000. 

I'm hoping it beats the GSX in the stereo (music) and amping capabilities, but in the virtual surround department I reckon the GSX might be untouchable for a while.

Here's hoping I get a good surprise in terms of audio quality.

Price wise, the GSX doesn't hold a candle to the G6 and free headset , though.


----------



## Azurik

Just to confirm then, I won’t get surround on the PS4 unless I run the g6 parallel on a pc via optical? 

Just connecting it to the PS4 via usb, optical or both will only give me stereo plus some pseudo sbx upmix?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. You ONLY need a PC initially so that you can change some settings. After that, you don't need a PC at all until you wanna change settings again.

And yes for 99% of us, GET the G6.  The GSX1000 is PC ONLY.


----------



## lenroot77

I think the G6 is really a steal for 150.00... it’s been great so far. 

I tried playing with the chat last night on PS4. For sure the chat works, but I was unable to adjust the game sound/chat individually. Anyone else have any luck with this?

It’s not a huge issue as Destiny 2 has in game adjustments and I’m pretty sure the PS4 has some adjustments as well. I will admit the dial on the mix amp is nice, but It’s about the only nice thing about the mixamp at this point.


----------



## headphonesonly

Azurik said:


> Just to confirm then, I won’t get surround on the PS4 unless I run the g6 parallel on a pc via optical?
> 
> Just connecting it to the PS4 via usb, optical or both will only give me stereo plus some pseudo sbx upmix?


VSS will work on ps4. Just make sure you set the usb audio to chat audio instead of all audio within the ps4 settings.


----------



## HairyHook

I received the Mobius yesterday and I'm pleasantly surprised.  MLE (or anybody with the Mobius already in their hands), I'm having some issues with 7.1 and I'd appreciate your feedback and/or help. The headset is on 7.1 mode and 3D Manual mode, centered. If I play some 7.1 test sounds, all the right sounds (front right, right, rear right) sound at 2 o'clock. If I move my head I can clearly pinpoint all these channels at 2. Same thing with the left channels, but at 10 o'clock. I was expecting to look back and hear the rear cues. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance!


----------



## mindbomb

HairyHook said:


> I received the Mobius yesterday and I'm pleasantly surprised.  MLE (or anybody with the Mobius already in their hands), I'm having some issues with 7.1 and I'd appreciate your feedback and/or help. The headset is on 7.1 mode and 3D Manual mode, centered. If I play some 7.1 test sounds, all the right sounds (front right, right, rear right) sound at 2 o'clock. If I move my head I can clearly pinpoint all these channels at 2. Same thing with the left channels, but at 10 o'clock. I was expecting to look back and hear the rear cues. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance!



set windows to 7.1.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

mindbomb said:


> set windows to 7.1.


----------



## HairyHook

mindbomb said:


> set windows to 7.1.



Thanks for chiming in mindbomb. Do you have the Mobius? The Configure button in the Sound Panel is greyed out and does not accept any modification. I own the GSX1000 and I can change the settings to 7.1, but not with the Mobius.


----------



## mindbomb (Sep 2, 2018)

HairyHook said:


> Thanks for chiming in mindbomb. Do you have the Mobius? The Configure button in the Sound Panel is greyed out and does not accept any modification. I own the GSX1000 and I can change the settings to 7.1, but not with the Mobius.



I don't have a mobius, but if windows is set to stereo, that would cause the issue your having. Windows would be downmixing to stereo, and then the mobius would see that as 2 channel, and put everything in the front two channels.

Also, if you are getting the files from youtube, then probably the uploader didn't realize that youtube downmixes to stereo.

The problem is something is downmixing the audio before it gets to the mobius.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2018)

HairyHook said:


> I received the Mobius yesterday and I'm pleasantly surprised.  MLE (or anybody with the Mobius already in their hands), I'm having some issues with 7.1 and I'd appreciate your feedback and/or help. The headset is on 7.1 mode and 3D Manual mode, centered. If I play some 7.1 test sounds, all the right sounds (front right, right, rear right) sound at 2 o'clock. If I move my head I can clearly pinpoint all these channels at 2. Same thing with the left channels, but at 10 o'clock. I was expecting to look back and hear the rear cues. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance!


I'm not quite understanding. Are you trying to turn around and hear the rear sounds? Since you turned towards them they'll be in front of you...

Edit: oh looks like someone got you covered.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HairyHook said:


> Thanks for chiming in mindbomb. Do you have the Mobius? The Configure button in the Sound Panel is greyed out and does not accept any modification. I own the GSX1000 and I can change the settings to 7.1, but not with the Mobius.


You have to adjust Mobius settings in the headset itself. Can't do it on PC aside from headtracking settings like head size, etc.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 3, 2018)

Yay


----------



## HairyHook

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm not quite understanding. Are you trying to turn around and hear the rear sounds? Since you turned towards them they'll be in front of you...
> 
> Edit: oh looks like someone got you covered.


Sorry for the confusion, let me explain it in a different way. I'm downloading 5.1/7.1 test files and playing them from VLC, following this KB from Audeze (https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003923192-Surround-Sound-Playback-in-VLC).

When I'm centered, and assuming a fixed clock, we have FR at 1 o'clock, SR at 3, SBR at 5, SBL at 7, SL at 9 and FL at 11.





When testing files, each speaker plays an individual sound so you can pinpoint which one it is. My goal is to move my head and always find the playing sound right in front of me. To test SBR, I should rotate my head to 5 o'clock and the sound, in theory, should be coming in front of me. My problem is that FR, SR and SBR are coming from the same physical location (2 o'clock), when they should be separated in space (2, 3, 5). Same thing for the left channels. The headset is confirmed to be in 7.1 mode.

Hope it makes more sense now.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Sep 3, 2018)

HairyHook said:


> Sorry for the confusion, let me explain it in a different way. I'm downloading 5.1/7.1 test files and playing them from VLC, following this KB from Audeze (https://audeze.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003923192-Surround-Sound-Playback-in-VLC).
> 
> When I'm centered, and assuming a fixed clock, we have FR at 1 o'clock, SR at 3, SBR at 5, SBL at 7, SL at 9 and FL at 11.
> 
> ...



Are you talking about physically turning your head in real life? The direction cues aren't going to change with your head movement unless you have some sort of head tracker device like the Smyth Realiser uses

edit: nevermind, I guess what you're talking about actually has some head tracking ability


----------



## HairyHook

Boogie7910 said:


> Are you talking about physically turning your head in real life? The direction cues aren't going to change with your head movement unless you have some sort of head tracker device like the Smyth Realiser uses


Yes, physically moving my head IRL. The Mobius has a built-in tracker, similar to the Realiser.


----------



## Blackhaired77

DrKrFfXx said:


> Yay



Gratz !!

Be looking for your review buddy

<3


----------



## WhiteHartMart

DrKrFfXx said:


> Yay



Nice - I'm looking to get the G6 for a more discrete lounge set up - have my X7 for sale in the classifieds if anyone is interested


----------



## Absolute Zero

Hi everyone. I have a pair of AD700X paired with a Mixamp Pro Tr that I'm currently using on my PS3.

I'm a bit disappointed by the Dolby Surround sound. I even tried some custom EQs but it didn't make any difference, I can't even detect the direction of footsteps...any suggestions?

There's been several complaints about the Dolby audio quality of the Mixamp TR from what I read in the astro forum. Are older mixamps better (as far as Dolby is concerned) or is there anything I can do to improve sound quality?

Anyone using the Ad700x with the Mixamp Pro TR?

Thanks.


----------



## headphonesonly

Asolute Zero said:


> Hi everyone. I have a pair of AD700X paired with a Mixamp Pro Tr that I'm currently using on my PS3.
> 
> I'm a bit disappointed by the Dolby Surround sound. I even tried some custom EQs but it didn't make any difference, I can't even detect the direction of footsteps...any suggestions?
> 
> ...


I used to have this setup. Now I have the sound blasterx g6 and it sounds way better than the mixamp.


----------



## Got the Shakes

While I thought I was done chasing surround through headphones and was just going to wait until the Realiser A16 gets delivered (which could be another year for all I know based on all the prior delays) I am actually quite interested in the Sound Blasterx G6 as it seems to tick almost all the boxes I’d use it for. I have a PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, PC, Nintendo Switch, and Nvidia Shield TV. I know it’s compatible with the first four of those, and I think the Nvidia Shield can send some sort of surround over USB although I’m not sure if it’s something that would work with the G6. For $150 I may have to take a leap of faith and try it out. Seems to me that what I’ve read on here is pretty positive.


----------



## Absolute Zero

headphonesonly said:


> I used to have this setup. Now I have the sound blasterx g6 and it sounds way better than the mixamp.



Thanks for your reply but at the moment I can't invest any more money into audio equipment. I've recently bought the AD700X and the Mixamp so I'd like to get decent (virtual) surround sound quality with my current setup.


----------



## Fotopaul

The MIx Amp TR will give good enough VSS, hollow and tinny but can be negated by EQ. The position cues are quite good and should be more than enough to distinguish where the sound comes from. Older is not better, in DDH. Some will argue that the prev gen of the Mix AMP tr where worse than older version as far as noise floor goes etc.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Sep 4, 2018)

So I got the G6. I installed the Sound Blaster Connect software. In the bottom left of the program there's a blue rectangle notification saying "Your audio device cannot be detected. Please check your connection". I'm not sure what that's about?

It's connected via usb to pc and I have the optical out of the G6 going to separate dac. Audio appears to be working.


----------



## headphonesonly

Boogie7910 said:


> So I got the G6. I installed the Sound Blaster Connect software. In the bottom left of the program there's a blue rectangle notification saying "Your audio device cannot be detected. Please check your connection". I'm not sure what that's about?
> 
> It's connected via usb to pc and I have the optical out of the G6 going to separate dac. Audio appears to be working.


It usually takes a few seconds before the software recognizes the device.


----------



## illram

I get that message when I turn direct mode on and off but it goes away after a second or two.


----------



## Boogie7910

weird. the message hasn't gone away for an hour since I set it up

what is direct mode?


----------



## illram

Boogie7910 said:


> weird. the message hasn't gone away for an hour since I set it up
> 
> what is direct mode?



Bypasses all digital effects. 

Have you tried updating the firmware?


----------



## mindbomb

Asolute Zero said:


> Hi everyone. I have a pair of AD700X paired with a Mixamp Pro Tr that I'm currently using on my PS3.
> 
> I'm a bit disappointed by the Dolby Surround sound. I even tried some custom EQs but it didn't make any difference, I can't even detect the direction of footsteps...any suggestions?
> 
> ...



First make sure your mixamp is actually receiving a surround sound signal. That means the ps3 has to be set up to pass through dolby digital.

After that, you have to use it for a couple of days to allow your brain to recalibrate and properly interpret the audio. So the more you use it, the more realistic it becomes.


----------



## Boogie7910

illram said:


> Bypasses all digital effects.
> 
> Have you tried updating the firmware?



Yes

I can't seem to adjust audio options in the menus. Probably because of the message. hmm


----------



## illram

If the firmware update worked then the device is communicating with your PC. Not to sound like minimum wage tech support but I assume you have tried stuff like plugging/unplugging, turning the PC off and on, using a different USB cable, etc.

Can you see the device in your sound control panel?


----------



## Boogie7910

illram said:


> If the firmware update worked then the device is communicating with your PC. Not to sound like minimum wage tech support but I assume you have tried stuff like plugging/unplugging, turning the PC off and on, using a different USB cable, etc.
> 
> Can you see the device in your sound control panel?



Yes, it's in the control panel. The device is working and communicating with the PC and I get audio. The Sound Blaster Connect software is not working however and doesn't recognize the device and I cannot customize sound settings.


----------



## illram

Do you have another PC to try and connect it to to check if there is something wrong with the device? 

There were different versions of the SB connect software online too, you downloaded the most recent one?


----------



## Boogie7910

illram said:


> Do you have another PC to try and connect it to to check if there is something wrong with the device?
> 
> There were different versions of the SB connect software online too, you downloaded the most recent one?



No I don't have another pc. Yes I downloaded the latest SB connect software. I also uninstalled/reinstalled the software to no avail.


----------



## Boogie7910

So I removed the device from devices tab and replugged it in. Now it's listed as having no drivers. I again uninstalled/reinstalled SB connect. Still listed as having no drivers.


----------



## Absolute Zero

mindbomb said:


> First make sure your mixamp is actually receiving a surround sound signal. That means the ps3 has to be set up to pass through dolby digital.
> 
> After that, you have to use it for a couple of days to allow your brain to recalibrate and properly interpret the audio. So the more you use it, the more realistic it becomes.



My PS3 is connected through the optical cable and it is correctly set up to receive 5.1 Dolby Digital. Unfortunately I've been using the headphones for months and I tried different eqs, besides the default ones, but nothing...to be more precise, in this video here you can get an idea of the strange dolby effect it has; mine sounds very similar to this one.


----------



## Fotopaul

I never tried the PS version, but my Xbox does not sound like that at all, sure it sounds a lot more hollow and with more reverb than my X7 but most other VSS does to a degree.

That metallic sound terrible to be honest.


----------



## anticris81

hello, I'm buying the sound blaster g6 and they do not give me the headphones, I'm buying them from creative spain, was it a temporary promotion?


----------



## Boogie7910

Ok so I finally got it working after a long chat session with technical support. I was having a driver issue and the culprit was my ESET system protecting software which I guess is a known issue with SB drivers. The trick was to go into ESET settings and permanently (not temporary) disable for the time being so it doesnt come back on during reboot, the real time file system protection. Then I did a full clean uninstall of all Creative and SB on my system and reinstalled it and it's working now.


----------



## HairyHook

anticris81 said:


> hello, I'm buying the sound blaster g6 and they do not give me the headphones, I'm buying them from creative spain, was it a temporary promotion?


I believe it was only a pre-order promotion. I had a friend in Spain order one yesterday and it worked, but now the headset is not automatically added to the cart.


----------



## anticris81

I tried it since yesterday, but I did not get the headphones to be added to the cart, thanks for answering


----------



## IslandRyhno

Anybody have experience with Cambridge Audios dacmagic 100 for gaming? Pairing with Hifiman he400


----------



## mindbomb

Asolute Zero said:


> My PS3 is connected through the optical cable and it is correctly set up to receive 5.1 Dolby Digital. Unfortunately I've been using the headphones for months and I tried different eqs, besides the default ones, but nothing...to be more precise, in this video here you can get an idea of the strange dolby effect it has; mine sounds very similar to this one.



oh wow, okay, my mistake. it seems like they screwed up something on it. I am surprised astro would make a mistake like this, isn't virtual surround sound their bread and butter? Did they mention anything about trying to make a new firmware to address this?


----------



## headphonesonly

Fotopaul said:


> I never tried the PS version, but my Xbox does not sound like that at all, sure it sounds a lot more hollow and with more reverb than my X7 but most other VSS does to a degree.
> 
> That metallic sound terrible to be honest.


I had the ps4 version of the mixamp tr and it sounded just like it did in that video. The older 2013 mixamp definitely had better sound quality and positional audio.


----------



## Vader2k

So my G6 arrived today. Way faster than I expected, too. I've always been curious to try SBX after being solely DH for so long, but never felt compelled to take the plunge on the X7. Probably didn't help that RDR2 is on the horizon (my most anticipated title since the original) and the opportunity to improve the VSS experience at a much more attractive price point was too hard to pass up.


----------



## TeeReQs

For people with a Nintendo Switch and X7..How are you connecting it to the X7? I tried the line in ports but it sounded terrible.


----------



## illram

Curious what others who also own an X7 think of the G6? I had some time to sit down and play some Call of Duty on the X7 tonight @100% surround. To my ears the X7 audio quality is superior with surround dialed all the way up. G6 can sound congested and smear the bass when there is a lot happening. X7 doesn't really suffer from that. I don't notice a difference in surround cue quality though, which is great.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Based on the analog output?


----------



## illram

I tried it both straight out of each device and then via lineouts to the amps I have on each. (Both iFi's.) G6 is optical out, X7 is analog out.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

I'm having trouble with my G6. Everytime I plug it in, a blue screen shows up, with different error codes (Security Kernel Error or tcpip.sys, and a couple more). Tried different cables and ports. 

On the PS4 it seems to work via USB, hadn't have the time to troubleshoot.


----------



## Boogie7910

DrKrFfXx said:


> I'm having trouble with my G6. Everytime I plug it in, a blue screen shows up, with different error codes (Security Kernel Error or tcpip.sys, and a couple more). Tried different cables and ports.
> 
> On the PS4 it seems to work via USB, hadn't have the time to troubleshoot.



If all your trouble shooting fails, you can try the creative chat support. I spoke with Arjey and he helped me with my issue.


----------



## Azurik

DrKrFfXx said:


> I'm having trouble with my G6. Everytime I plug it in, a blue screen shows up, with different error codes (Security Kernel Error or tcpip.sys, and a couple more). Tried different cables and ports.
> 
> On the PS4 it seems to work via USB, hadn't have the time to troubleshoot.



Don’t you get stereo only on the PS4 USB port? Don’t you have to connect the optical AND USB cable and switch to chat only in the options to get VSS to work on the PS4, unless you are happy with stereo


----------



## Absolute Zero

mindbomb said:


> oh wow, okay, my mistake. it seems like they screwed up something on it. I am surprised astro would make a mistake like this, isn't virtual surround sound their bread and butter? Did they mention anything about trying to make a new firmware to address this?



Nope, unfortunately they claim that it sounds as intended. I'm quite doubtful about it, this is my first Mixamp so I can't make any comparisons but in the video I sent you the older Mixamp sounds 10 times better with Dolby on. This TR model sounds like crap to be honest.


----------



## Azurik

Asolute Zero said:


> Nope, unfortunately they claim that it sounds as intended. I'm quite doubtful about it, this is my first Mixamp so I can't make any comparisons but in the video I sent you the older Mixamp sounds 10 times better with Dolby on. This TR model sounds like crap to be honest.




I think they use v3 of Dolby headphone which introduced the horrible sound but claim that it is supposed to sound that way. The Astro a50 gen2 and previous mixamps that use an older Dolby headphone version sound really good and nothing like the metallic mixamp tr


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Azurik said:


> Don’t you get stereo only on the PS4 USB port? Don’t you have to connect the optical AND USB cable and switch to chat only in the options to get VSS to work on the PS4, unless you are happy with stereo



It "works" in the sense that it outputs audio. I haven't had the time as I said. You have to go through the PC in order to properly configure the card anyway


----------



## Lay.

After couple of hours playing with PS4, G6, HD660S and Fortnite...

1. You can't adjust the sidetone alone without adjusting the mic sensitivity? The sidetone is extremely high at the moment. You can turn the sidetone off though.
2. You can't adjust the PS4 party chat volume/balance? The setting is grayed out in PS4 when G6 is connected
3. You can't mute the mic? You can mute the headphones and sidetone.

Didn't mess too much with the sound. Sorround 50% (wide?) and pretty much everything else turned off. I did not have the toslink mini adapter to test with external amp and HD800S. Hopefully during this week I will get the adapter.


----------



## Fotopaul

I can't fault the X7 (with X2HR) it's simply perfect for my usage. Last night I tried the open beta of Battlefield V, WOW the surround sound is much improved over BF1. Setting the audio to 5.1 surround and headphones really makes the X7/H2HR shine. Compared to BF1 I can now hear much precise where the sound is coming from, not sure what they have done but it's working very well!


----------



## Absolute Zero

Azurik said:


> I think they use v3 of Dolby headphone which introduced the horrible sound but claim that it is supposed to sound that way. The Astro a50 gen2 and previous mixamps that use an older Dolby headphone version sound really good and nothing like the metallic mixamp tr



I don't know what to say...I'm quite disappointed but I'm still curious to know whether other AD700X users have encountered the same problems with the TR or have found possible fixes to make dolby sound acceptable at least.


----------



## Azurik

Asolute Zero said:


> I don't know what to say...I'm quite disappointed but I'm still curious to know whether other AD700X users have encountered the same problems with the TR or have found possible fixes to make dolby sound acceptable at least.



Go on the official Astro forum and look for the ZaliaS collection under the presets section. They are quite good and manage to mask the bad sound quite a lot


----------



## Absolute Zero

Azurik said:


> Go on the official Astro forum and look for the ZaliaS collection under the presets section. They are quite good and manage to mask the bad sound quite a lot



I already tried some of them: Arcturus with DOLBY OFF and it sounds pretty good, his Tournament presets with DOLBY ON but they sound bad that way. I haven't tested all of them though so there may be some that are good with Dolby as well. Have you found some good Dolby presets by Zalias?


----------



## headphonesonly

Asolute Zero said:


> I already tried some of them: Arcturus with DOLBY OFF and it sounds pretty good, his Tournament presets with DOLBY ON but they sound bad that way. I haven't tested all of them though so there may be some that are good with Dolby as well. Have you found some good Dolby presets by Zalias?


I couldn’t find a good eq to use with my ad700x. I ended up keeping the eq flat instead and delt with the metallic, tinny sound of the surround sound.
On Ebay you can get the turtle beach DSS for 13 bucks. Which sounded better than the tr in my opinion.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Turtle-Beach...ecAAMXQfFJRWino:sc:USPSFirstClass!92126!US!-1


----------



## Vader2k

illram said:


> Curious what others who also own an X7 think of the G6? I had some time to sit down and play some Call of Duty on the X7 tonight @100% surround. To my ears the X7 audio quality is superior with surround dialed all the way up. G6 can sound congested and smear the bass when there is a lot happening. X7 doesn't really suffer from that. I don't notice a difference in surround cue quality though, which is great.



It kinda makes sense for the X7 to outperform this as it's still their top of the line offering.  Do you feel the G6, despite being inferior to the X7, is still an improvement over DH?


----------



## headphonesonly

Vader2k said:


> It kinda makes sense for the X7 to outperform this as it's still their top of the line offering.  Do you feel the G6, despite being inferior to the X7, is still an improvement over DH?


If you want less reverb then yes. The positional cues are about the same.


----------



## illram

Vader2k said:


> It kinda makes sense for the X7 to outperform this as it's still their top of the line offering.  Do you feel the G6, despite being inferior to the X7, is still an improvement over DH?



Yes it is a less reverb-y VSS. Sometimes with DH the rear cues can stick out more, which is good, but on the balance the audio quality improvement of SBX (on any SBX device) makes it a more pleasing experience.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Sep 5, 2018)

So I'm getting pretty good VSS positioning with the G6 in COD WWII but I'm rarely hearing footsteps. I'm getting snuck up on all the time. I've tried different settings but it doesn't help. Not sure what to do.


----------



## halcyon

Boogie7910 said:


> So I'm getting pretty good VSS positioning with the G6 in COD WWII but I'm rarely hearing footsteps. I'm getting snuck up on all the time. I've tried different settings like DH and Scout mode but it doesn't help. Not sure what to do.



Oh, no.

Can you tell me what was you prior sound card (and settings/virtual sound engine) before G6?


----------



## Lay.

Boogie7910 said:


> So I'm getting pretty good VSS positioning with the G6 in COD WWII but I'm rarely hearing footsteps. I'm getting snuck up on all the time. I've tried different settings like DH and Scout mode but it doesn't help. Not sure what to do.



It is among the worst CoD games for hearing footsteps after the footstep sound distance nerf.


----------



## Got the Shakes

illram said:


> Yes it is a less reverb-y VSS. Sometimes with DH the rear cues can stick out more, which is good, but on the balance the audio quality improvement of SBX (on any SBX device) makes it a more pleasing experience.



I’m glad to hear this. I’ve never really like the reverb with DH and I have a G6 being delivered that is my first SBX device. Most of what I play at this point is single player and I just wanted a VSS solution that works with just about everything. I’m pretty excited to try it out.


----------



## Boogie7910

halcyon said:


> Oh, no.
> 
> Can you tell me what was you prior sound card (and settings/virtual sound engine) before G6?



Sorry I don't have another to compare it to. This is my first hardware VSS since the original Mixamp on Xbox 360. Only other thing I've tried is the software Dolby Atmos and Sonic but they were terrible. I'm going to chalk it up to it being the games sound mix.


----------



## Fotopaul

illram said:


> Curious what others who also own an X7 think of the G6? I had some time to sit down and play some Call of Duty on the X7 tonight @100% surround. To my ears the X7 audio quality is superior with surround dialed all the way up. G6 can sound congested and smear the bass when there is a lot happening. X7 doesn't really suffer from that. I don't notice a difference in surround cue quality though, which is great.



Maybe not all that surprising, considering they do not share the same DAC and may not have the same processing power.


----------



## Lay.

In this review the guy talks about G6 and X7...


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 5, 2018)

Boogie7910 said:


> If all your trouble shooting fails, you can try the creative chat support. I spoke with Arjey and he helped me with my issue.



I ended up formating and installing a fresh Windows.

It's doing good so far, I have a hunch that the G6 dislikes my FiiO X3 drivers, as if they fight for the same adresses or something, it is the only thing different from my previous configuration. I'll keep an eye on it.

The software is messy and convoluted. The polar opposite of the ease of use of the GSX1000
.


----------



## headphonesonly

Boogie7910 said:


> So I'm getting pretty good VSS positioning with the G6 in COD WWII but I'm rarely hearing footsteps. I'm getting snuck up on all the time. I've tried different settings like but it doesn't help. Not sure what to do.


Im Actually hearing footsteps just fine in ww2. Im using ultra wide for surround and everything else is off. No EQ. Dolby Audio setting set to full.


----------



## Boogie7910

headphonesonly said:


> Im Actually hearing footsteps just fine in ww2. Im using ultra wide for surround and everything else is off. No EQ. Dolby Audio setting set to full.



Interesting. I'll try it again tomorrow with those exact settings but not sure why I can't hear them with everything I tried.


----------



## Fotopaul

Lay. said:


> In this review the guy talks about G6 and X7...



Yeah I did saw that "review" not giving much for it though, will have the G6 to try out soon enough.


----------



## Blackhaired77

I have seen some videos comparing gsx and g6 surround



While i heard the comparsion through stereo

I found minimal difference

I am not sure if this is what i should expect or the sound quality of the video makes a difference

Any idea?!

Plus if i to choose between a sound card vs an open back like "game one headset " which one will benifit me more regarding better surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TeeReQs said:


> For people with a Nintendo Switch and X7..How are you connecting it to the X7? I tried the line in ports but it sounded terrible.


I don't have the switch directly connected to the X7. I use ny TV's optical out. The switch doesn't do surround from what I see, so turn off SBX when using it.

My tv passes Dolby Digital for the X7 to decode.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 6, 2018)

I may be repeating myself for no reason, BUT MAKE SURE TO SET THE G6 SURROUND TO MAX in the PC software before using it.



Boogie7910 said:


> So I'm getting pretty good VSS positioning with the G6 in COD WWII but I'm rarely hearing footsteps. I'm getting snuck up on all the time. I've tried different settings but it doesn't help. Not sure what to do.


I haven't played WWII either than the campaign, but CoD have deemphasized hearing footsteps. It may be game related and nothing your devices can do about it.

There are many fps games that have bad footstep audio if any.


----------



## Fleshless

so i got my GSX1200 today (got it 1€ cheaper than the GSX1000) but i have some problems with it.
First i had it plugged in a USB 3.0 port and tried to set it up but i couldn´t change volume or any settings on the GSX1200.
So i thought to myself i will just try it with a USB 2.0 port and it worked, i could controll volume without a problem and the other settings seemed to do what they have to do.
Now for the quick setup in windows, so i go into my playback devies, choose the GSX 1200 Pro Main Audio and click configure.
Here i choose 7.1 Surround and press Test and get the Error Message "failed to play test tone".
If i just go ahead and finish the setup i have no more sound until i go back to Stereo.

TL;DR : When i try to set my GSX1200 to 7.1 Surround in Windows i get the Error "failed to play test tone"

Anyone got a fix for this?


----------



## TeeReQs

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't have the switch directly connected to the X7. I use ny TV's optical out. The switch doesn't do surround from what I see, so turn off SBX when using it.
> 
> My tv passes Dolby Digital for the X7 to decode.



Thanks for the reply MLE.

I have my Switch hooked to my monitor right now, and it's directly next to my X7. I've just been plugging in headphones into the switch. I ran and HDMI cable through the walls to the TV in the living room, so it's hooked up to that as well if I want to play from the couch, but the TV is not hooked to the X7 since the only time I use the X7 is when I'm at my desk (which is most of the time). Is there any other way to pair the two without passing through a TV? My monitor obviously doesn't have optical out.


----------



## Oldboy1987 (Sep 6, 2018)

Hi, I need your help...

I am an Xbox one x Player, please help me to configure my setup...

Audio gd 11.28
Shure srh 1540
Antillon modmic

I think I need an astro mixamp, can anyone say me how I can paire all these things? Sorry my English is not so good...

Greetings from austria


----------



## Fleshless

Fleshless said:


> so i got my GSX1200 today (got it 1€ cheaper than the GSX1000) but i have some problems with it.
> First i had it plugged in a USB 3.0 port and tried to set it up but i couldn´t change volume or any settings on the GSX1200.
> So i thought to myself i will just try it with a USB 2.0 port and it worked, i could controll volume without a problem and the other settings seemed to do what they have to do.
> Now for the quick setup in windows, so i go into my playback devies, choose the GSX 1200 Pro Main Audio and click configure.
> ...



i think i found it out, it´s a problem with my mainboards USB, no idea why but i have 1 external USB that is included in my Card Reader and there it works fine.


----------



## Fotopaul

Oldboy1987 said:


> Hi, I need your help...
> 
> I am an Xbox one x Player, please help me to configure my setup...
> 
> ...



The Mix Amp TR will give you chat audio if that's what your after.

You then connect the mix amp to the Xbox via toslink and USB, and connect your modmic to the mixamp headphone jack via the y split cable that comes with the mix amp. then you use the stream out of the mix amp TR to the Audio gd 11.28, and connect your shure headphones to the headphone amp.


----------



## Hansotek

Just tried combining the Creative G6 and the Audeze Mobius on the PS4. It sounded freakin awesome. Anybody else try this yet? @Mad Lust Envy ?

Unfortunately, it’s going to be a couple days before I can use this setup full-time, since both Creative and Audeze saw fit to include the shortest freakin cables possible with their wares. Otherwise I’ve gotta stand like 12” away from a 50” TV, lol! Ordered all the necessary cables on Amazon, so I should have some more impressions Sunday.


----------



## shuto77

Hansotek said:


> Just tried combining the Creative G6 and the Audeze Mobius on the PS4. It sounded freakin awesome. Anybody else try this yet? @Mad Lust Envy ?
> 
> Unfortunately, it’s going to be a couple days before I can use this setup full-time, since both Creative and Audeze saw fit to include the shortest freakin cables possible with their wares. Otherwise I’ve gotta stand like 12” away from a 50” TV, lol! Ordered all the necessary cables on Amazon, so I should have some more impressions Sunday.



Hey man!
I was thinking about grabbing the Mobius too. It sounds like you're enjoying them. 

Have you tried them for music at all? And how comfortable are they?


----------



## illram

Wouldn't using the Mobius on top of the G6 be sort of pointless? It uses its own VSS (Waves Nx).


----------



## Fegefeuer

The Mobius can do 2.0 

Will continue testing the G6 tonight. Hopefully it doesn't switch to speakers again while I am on my PS4.
I have it connected to a WYRD I had laying around, very convenient. G6 is connected both to the PC and the PS4. No need for a moic as I have no friends that game on the PS.


----------



## Fotopaul

Mobius only accept an analog signal from consoles, but the head tracking will work. With the G6 you get VSS and head tracking, some will argue head tracking is a game changer. Im not one of them..


----------



## Yngvarr

Okay,

Question: When i connect the GSX 1200 to an external amp with the Line-In port, i need to switch the mode on the GSX 1200 to select the correct output.
However, Line out is only 2.0 instead of the 7.1 that i usually have it on.

Does this render the whole surround system of the GSX 1200 useless?


----------



## Got the Shakes

Hansotek said:


> Just tried combining the Creative G6 and the Audeze Mobius on the PS4. It sounded freakin awesome. Anybody else try this yet? @Mad Lust Envy ?
> 
> Unfortunately, it’s going to be a couple days before I can use this setup full-time, since both Creative and Audeze saw fit to include the shortest freakin cables possible with their wares. Otherwise I’ve gotta stand like 12” away from a 50” TV, lol! Ordered all the necessary cables on Amazon, so I should have some more impressions Sunday.



I got my G6 yesterday and paired it with my HD 800 and I to am in love with my new setup. I immediately jumped on Amazon and bout longer cables as well since after 15 minutes I’m convinced it’s going to be my full time setup, but the cables it came with are a few feet too short.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, the USB cable is a bit short. Fortunately I had some great Volutz cables lying around. I LOVE MARKETING


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Yngvarr said:


> Okay,
> 
> Question: When i connect the GSX 1200 to an external amp with the Line-In port, i need to switch the mode on the GSX 1200 to select the correct output.
> However, Line out is only 2.0 instead of the 7.1 that i usually have it on.
> ...



Exactly. Line out is 2.0 only. If anything, you may amplify the headphone output.


----------



## Yngvarr

DrKrFfXx said:


> Exactly. Line out is 2.0 only. If anything, you may amplify the headphone output.



Meaning connecting the amp to the Headphone jack of the GSX 1200? I'm not sure if that's bad in any way


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Yngvarr said:


> Meaning connecting the amp to the Headphone jack of the GSX 1200? I'm not sure if that's bad in any way



It may amp the noise floor of the headphone out meaning you might hear a buzzing noise, and crosstalk might get affected. Other than that it wouldn't cause any damage to the unit.


----------



## Yngvarr

DrKrFfXx said:


> It may amp the noise floor of the headphone out meaning you might hear a buzzing noise, and crosstalk might get affected. Other than that it wouldn't cause any damage to the unit.



Also something i noticed, Windows is still in 7.1 mode, while the GSX 1200 is connected with the line out to the amp and therefore in 2.0
Yet, when trying out testfiles for 7.1 VSS, i still do have the surround effect.


----------



## Hansotek

shuto77 said:


> Hey man!
> I was thinking about grabbing the Mobius too. It sounds like you're enjoying them.
> 
> Have you tried them for music at all? And how comfortable are they?



Heya buddy! I really like the Mobius! The DSP and headtracking stuff is really well implemented and the sound signature is awesome. With the 3D off, it is a decently good sounding headphone, but with the processing on, it is pretty incredible, IMHO. 

I wish it could do Bluetooth 5.1 on consoles... I really need to build a PC rig one of these days... but the signal from the G6 seems to get the job done pretty impressively for getting 5.1 to it on the PS4. The Mobius will still employ the head tracking with an analog input, but analog is only 2.0 unless the signal is pre-processed. The G6 seems to make the stage about 50-60% larger than the controller’s signal, in my estimation.

Comfort is very good, IMO, but not elite. Certainly much better than the M4U8, but nowhere near as good as the ÆON, for example- maybe half way between. The earpads are a bit plasticky in their pleather-ness, it would be nice if they were slightly more protein-ey in feel. But I feel like I’m really nitpicking here. This headphone is a ridiculous amount of fun, and I’m glad I got one. I’ve seen some of the prices they are going for on the forum, and IMO, they are really a steal in that $300-$325 range. 

I’ve liked them with music so far too. Haven’t really tested them out with too much metal yet, gotta do that. I, personally, think the DSP/headtracking sounds good with a lot of music. I don’t know how much this has to do with the physical structure of ones ear, but the DSP works great for me, so I can only describe my own experience. YMMV, obviously.


----------



## Vader2k

Fotopaul said:


> Mobius only accept an analog signal from consoles, but the head tracking will work. With the G6 you get VSS and head tracking, some will argue head tracking is a game changer. Im not one of them..





Hansotek said:


> The Mobius will still employ the head tracking with an analog input, but analog is only 2.0 unless the signal is pre-processed. The G6 seems to make the stage about 50-60% larger than the controller’s signal, in my estimation.



Well, not entirely.  You can get 2.0 from either analog or USB on PS4.  All the other console options are analog only.

Turning 3D On on the Mobius will enable both the Mobius' VSS (Waves NX) and head tracking; you can't have head tracking by itself.  So, if you're running SBX on the G6 and then applying Mobius' 3D On, you're doubling the VSS processing.  @Hansotek, is that how you're doing it, or did you turn 3D Off on the Mobius so that you're just using a stereo planar with the G6's SBX?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 7, 2018)

illram said:


> Wouldn't using the Mobius on top of the G6 be sort of pointless? It uses its own VSS (Waves Nx).


You would have to turn off the Mobius processing in this instance. And it doesn't work on the PS4 in any case. So he's fine.


----------



## Hansotek

Vader2k said:


> Well, not entirely.  You can get 2.0 from either analog or USB on PS4.  All the other console options are analog only.
> 
> Turning 3D On on the Mobius will enable both the Mobius' VSS (Waves NX) and head tracking; you can't have head tracking by itself.  So, if you're running SBX on the G6 and then applying Mobius' 3D On, you're doubling the VSS processing.  @Hansotek, is that how you're doing it, or did you turn 3D Off on the Mobius so that you're just using a stereo planar with the G6's SBX?



The Mobius's processing is on the whole time. When I run through the PS4 only, I'm getting 2.0 with head tracking - it seems like the sound is coming from mostly in front of me. Rear cues aren't very strong. When I ran it through the G6, it seems like they are coming from all around me. I guess I'm doubling the VSS processing? It doesn't seem incompatible in any way so far, but I only played for a couple minutes, as I said before. Sounded cool though. 

Can somebody explain what the SBX button does? I'm confused.


----------



## Oldboy1987

Fotopaul said:


> The Mix Amp TR will give you chat audio if that's what your after.
> 
> You then connect the mix amp to the Xbox via toslink and USB, and connect your modmic to the mixamp headphone jack via the y split cable that comes with the mix amp. then you use the stream out of the mix amp TR to the Audio gd 11.28, and connect your shure headphones to the headphone amp.




Thank you for the quick answer... Which cable for the aux to the audio gd? The audio gd had no aux in .. Maybe with this  

https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B019O...81-899ae0ce3f44&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65

Do you think this can work?


----------



## TeeReQs

Hansotek said:


> The Mobius's processing is on the whole time. When I run through the PS4 only, I'm getting 2.0 with head tracking - it seems like the sound is coming from mostly in front of me. Rear cues aren't very strong. When I ran it through the G6, it seems like they are coming from all around me. I guess I'm doubling the VSS processing? It doesn't seem incompatible in any way so far, but I only played for a couple minutes, as I said before. Sounded cool though.
> 
> Can somebody explain what the SBX button does? I'm confused.



Sounds like you are only using the VSS of the G6. SBX is Creative's VSS.


----------



## Vader2k

Hansotek said:


> The Mobius's processing is on the whole time. When I run through the PS4 only, I'm getting 2.0 with head tracking - it seems like the sound is coming from mostly in front of me. Rear cues aren't very strong. When I ran it through the G6, it seems like they are coming from all around me. I guess I'm doubling the VSS processing? It doesn't seem incompatible in any way so far, but I only played for a couple minutes, as I said before. Sounded cool though.
> 
> Can somebody explain what the SBX button does? I'm confused.



Yeah sounds like you're doubling VSS processing, but if it sounds good, nothing wrong with that!  I think on early Mobius impressions, someone (@AxelCloris maybe? or @Mad Lust Envy?) mentioned using the Mobius doubled off the Mixamp and found it to still be decent too.

The manual states the SBX button lets you enable/disable a profile.  I haven't used my G6 yet, but I'm guessing it's either a preset or custom profile you make in the software and then save it to the G6 to be enabled when not on PC.


----------



## Pairzilla

Does anyone know if the sound settings of a TV effect the X7? Had the X7 connected to my PS4 via optical and was using the PS4 on a monitor. Everything worked fine. Now I hooked the PS4 up to a tv (Sony x900f) and the X7 isn't giving me sound to the PS4 anymore. Dolby decoder light not turning on anymore.


----------



## Hansotek

TeeReQs said:


> Sounds like you are only using the VSS of the G6. SBX is Creative's VSS.


I toggled it on and off variously and tried the scout mode. You can't turn off the processing for Mobius unless you turn 3d mode off. Believe me, it's super obvious if it's on or off.


----------



## illram

Pairzilla said:


> Does anyone know if the sound settings of a TV effect the X7? Had the X7 connected to my PS4 via optical and was using the PS4 on a monitor. Everything worked fine. Now I hooked the PS4 up to a tv (Sony x900f) and the X7 isn't giving me sound to the PS4 anymore. Dolby decoder light not turning on anymore.



Are you running the optical from the TV to the X7? If so you need to tell your TV to pass through dolby digital, or AC-3, via the optical out. I would assume there is a setting to toggle that somewhere on your TV. (Have to do that on my LG). 

If you're running the optical from the PS4 to the X7, I don't own a PS4 so I can't tell you if there is a setting somewhere to tell your PS4 to do optical out rather than HDMI out for audio. (If you were doing it that way with your monitor before and did not change anything I don't know why it would revert back but maybe check).


----------



## Hansotek

Vader2k said:


> Yeah sounds like you're doubling VSS processing, but if it sounds good, nothing wrong with that!  I think on early Mobius impressions, someone (@AxelCloris maybe? or @Mad Lust Envy?) mentioned using the Mobius doubled off the Mixamp and found it to still be decent too.
> 
> The manual states the SBX button lets you enable/disable a profile.  I haven't used my G6 yet, but I'm guessing it's either a preset or custom profile you make in the software and then save it to the G6 to be enabled when not on PC.



Yeah, so it seems that button is just a custom setting for your VSS preferences. I think it does Dolby headphone mode regardless of whether or not it's engaged. Scout mode was definitely Dolby.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I definitely do NOT like having the Mobius 3D on WITH some external surround processing like SBX. On PS4 I would advise to turn OFF Mobius 3D and use the G6's SBX on. Also make sure yoyr PS4 sound settings are set to Dolby Digital through the optical out. In PC that's the best place to use the Mobius 3D button when connected by USB on its 8ch mode.


----------



## Vader2k

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, so it seems that button is just a custom setting for your VSS preferences. I think it does Dolby headphone mode regardless of whether or not it's engaged. Scout mode was definitely Dolby.



Wait... a Creative device, but implementing Dolby VSS?!?  But I'm trying to move on from DH!!!  Haha, sorry, just being unnecessarily melodramatic.

Seriously, though, is it really Dolby's VSS tech?  Sure, it's decoding DDL, but wouldn't it's still be Creative's VSS, even if it may not be called SBX this time around?


----------



## Hansotek

Vader2k said:


> Wait... a Creative device, but implementing Dolby VSS?!?  But I'm trying to move on from DH!!!  Haha, sorry, just being unnecessarily melodramatic.
> 
> Seriously, though, is it really Dolby's VSS tech?  Sure, it's decoding DDL, but wouldn't it's still be Creative's VSS, even if it may not be called SBX this time around?



You lost me. I'm still learning my way around this device, so let's ease up on the trivia for now. I probably said something wrong in there somewhere. I'm sure I can rely on this thread to jump all over my nuts about it.


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 7, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Yeah, so it seems that button is just a custom setting for your VSS preferences. I think it does Dolby headphone mode regardless of whether or not it's engaged. Scout mode was definitely Dolby.


No, the SBX button will activate the current profile stored in the memory, connect to a pc to change it. There is no Dolby headphone in either G6 or X7, it's Creatives own proprietary VSS. The level of SBX surround is set in the profile, and can be changed when hooked up to a PC.

If surround (SBX surround) is not activated you will get a stereo downmix of the DD 5.1 source.

So on consoles you will get SBX 5.1 connect to a PC (windows drivers) you can get an SBX upmix to 7.1


----------



## Pairzilla

illram said:


> Are you running the optical from the TV to the X7? If so you need to tell your TV to pass through dolby digital, or AC-3, via the optical out. I would assume there is a setting to toggle that somewhere on your TV. (Have to do that on my LG).
> 
> 
> 
> If you're running the optical from the PS4 to the X7, I don't own a PS4 so I can't tell you if there is a setting somewhere to tell your PS4 to do optical out rather than HDMI out for audio. (If you were doing it that way with your monitor before and did not change anything I don't know why it would revert back but maybe check).



No I'm running optical to PS4. All settings are correct.


----------



## Vader2k

Hansotek said:


> You lost me. I'm still learning my way around this device, so let's ease up on the trivia for now. I probably said something wrong in there somewhere. I'm sure I can rely on this thread to jump all over my nuts about it.



My apologies if I'm coming across as overbearing or attacking; not my intent at all.  Just trying to figure out how this new toy works.


----------



## AxelCloris

Vader2k said:


> Yeah sounds like you're doubling VSS processing, but if it sounds good, nothing wrong with that!  I think on early Mobius impressions, someone (@AxelCloris maybe? or @Mad Lust Envy?) mentioned using the Mobius doubled off the Mixamp and found it to still be decent too.


That was me. I know MLE wasn't a fan of double processing, but for Monster Hunter I thought it was an enjoyable experience to use both. I haven't been gaming much lately, only playing Destiny 2 a bit with @Evshrug and @Hansotek, but hopefully I'll find time in the schedule for more Mobius listening in the next few weeks. CanJam previews take up a lot of my time during production.


----------



## Hansotek

Fotopaul said:


> No, the SBX button will activate the current profile stored in the memory, connect to a pc to change it. There is no Dolby headphone in either G6 or X7, it's Creatives own proprietary VSS. The level of SBX surround is set in the profile, and can be changed when hooked up to a PC.
> 
> If surround (SBX surround) is not activated you will get a stereo downmix of the DD 5.1 source.
> 
> So on consoles you will get SBX 5.1 connect to a PC (windows drivers) you can get an SBX upmix to 7.1



I guess I misspoke on the "dolby" part, apparently. You'll have to forgive me since there's a  light under the word "Dolby" on the G6. Who the hell designed this thing? It's confusing.


----------



## Fotopaul

Well Dolby Digital decoding is one thing, Dolby headphone VSS is another.


----------



## Hansotek

AxelCloris said:


> That was me. I know MLE wasn't a fan of double processing, but for Monster Hunter I thought it was an enjoyable experience to use both. I haven't been gaming much lately, only playing Destiny 2 a bit with @Evshrug and @Hansotek, but hopefully I'll find time in the schedule for more Mobius listening in the next few weeks. CanJam previews take up a lot of my time during production.



I thought it sounded good! I need more time with it to say for certain.


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 7, 2018)

Oldboy1987 said:


> Thank you for the quick answer... Which cable for the aux to the audio gd? The audio gd had no aux in .. Maybe with this
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B019O...81-899ae0ce3f44&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65
> 
> Do you think this can work?



Doubt it. If I'm not mistaken you will have to convert that analogue line out to a digital signal so you can feed it into your headphone amp as a digital signal.

Something like this, it will, of course, affect the signal as you add yet another converter into the chain.
https://www.amazon.de/AMANKA-Analog...words=analog+to+digital+audio+converter&psc=1

Kind of sucks that the Mix-amp TR doe does not have an optical out that can carry the VSS processing like some creative units can.


----------



## Hansotek

Vader2k said:


> My apologies if I'm coming across as overbearing or attacking; not my intent at all.  Just trying to figure out how this new toy works.



No worries. We're good.


----------



## Moxx88

Any comparisons between mr speaker ether c 1.1 and the Sennheiser HD800 / HD800S?


----------



## Evshrug

Fotopaul said:


> Mobius only accept an analog signal from consoles, but the head tracking will work. With the G6 you get VSS and head tracking, some will argue head tracking is a game changer. Im not one of them..


I believe you can also connect to consoles VIA USB, for stereo and chat. Creative G6 does not do head tracking.



Yngvarr said:


> Okay,
> 
> Question: When i connect the GSX 1200 to an external amp with the Line-In port, i need to switch the mode on the GSX 1200 to select the correct output.
> However, Line out is only 2.0 instead of the 7.1 that i usually have it on.
> ...


 Sort of? Many people plug a pair of speakers to the line-out (and a binaural mix doesn’t help speakers much), and headphones into the headphone port. If you typically like to leave your stuff connected, this can be very convenient for switching between speakers and headphones.

Personally, I have connected my GSX 1000’s headphone jack to an interconnect feeding into my big HDV 820 amp. The GSX’s DAC isn’t as realistic or organic as the HDV 820’s DAC, but the binaural effect is worth it when I’m playing games. I don’t think the “line out” sounds noticeably better than the headphone jack in this case, it’s better to think of it as “the second output option” rather than anything superior. It works well; you should try it that way!




Pairzilla said:


> Does anyone know if the sound settings of a TV effect the X7? Had the X7 connected to my PS4 via optical and was using the PS4 on a monitor. Everything worked fine. Now I hooked the PS4 up to a tv (Sony x900f) and the X7 isn't giving me sound to the PS4 anymore. Dolby decoder light not turning on anymore.


Sounds like your TV de-coded the Dolby and only passed through stereo. In which case, I’d recommend connecting the optical back to your X7 and PS4, while letting HDMI send audio to your TV and speakers if desired.



Vader2k said:


> Wait... a Creative device, but implementing Dolby VSS?!?  But I'm trying to move on from DH!!!  Haha, sorry, just being unnecessarily melodramatic.
> 
> Seriously, though, is it really Dolby's VSS tech?  Sure, it's decoding DDL, but wouldn't it's still be Creative's VSS, even if it may not be called SBX this time around?



This is how the Recon3D USB, Turtle Beach DSS2, and X7 worked too: the game console outputs a bitstream over optical, encoded as Dolby Digital Live (which is a 5.1 channel output with two additional rear channels matrix’d in), then the DSP decodes the Dolby, runs it through an HRTF filter (like SBX, Dolby Headphone, or some other proprietary solution) which mixes down into a binaural output (which is a 2-channel output which sounds “surround” when listened through headphones).

I know you knew some of that already Vader, but I figured other people might like the whole process. It helps to think of Dolby Headphone as something different from Dolby Digital Live and Dolby Vision... they’re different processes from the same company.


----------



## Evshrug

Comparison: they’re both top of the line headphones.

Contrast: the HD 800 is an open headphone, while the Ether C is a closed headphone. This should be the first thing you should consider with respect to your listening environment. After that, it’s easy. Personally, I had wanted an HD 800 for a long time and went with that, I love the sound quality it gives and don’t like my wife bursting into my office and surprising me (she doesn’t knock first, so I need to hear her coming up the stairs).


----------



## Moxx88

Thanks for the response! What are your major use cases cor the hd800? Im looking for an allround headphone since i want to use it for music, gaming (fun and competitive) and movies.


----------



## Cerebrum2045 (Sep 7, 2018)

I just received the G6 and here's my initial impressions and opinions after using it for a few days.
I know I'm not a professional audio reviewer or anything but as a heavy FPS player I hope this insight becomes helpful for you gamers out there. (this is also from the perspective of a PC gamer)

My setup for my audio chain goes as follows: PC -> Peace EQ for HD800 -> Sound BlasterX G6 -> SBX settings -> Modi Multibit -> Mass drop CTH -> HD800

*Background and Gear:*
I have been a long time lurker on this thread, owning the AKG K701's (from MLE's review) and have used them with the Dolby Headphone technology from my xonar essence sound card from ASUS.
Recently, I have also jumped into the audiophile world and gotten the HD800 along with the Schiit Modi Multibit and the Massdrop CTH hybrid tube amp but this only gave me stereo and no VSS.
I was instantly interested in the G6 for its ability to be added into my audio chain while still allowing me to use my own amp.
I mainly play FPS shooters which is why I opted to get the G6 in the first place because footsteps positioning become priority in these games.
I have played many competitive shooters such as CS:GO, overwatch, and siege through various seasons on the PC.
I also have played a lot of survival/pvp games such as PUBG and Escape from Tarkov.

*Impressions:*
My initial impression upon adding the G6 to the chain was a noticeable difference to audio's tone in which it seems more crisp/cold.I believe this is more to sound signature of the DAC in the G6 flavoring the audio chain with a cold tone.
Second, I was hearing positional sounds cues that I had not heard before by using solely the Mimby/CTH or using the Xonar Essence's DH technology. These positional cues I would say are the best out of the VSS systems I have used up to date.
Footsteps in FPS games become very clear as there is no reverb.
Games however still tend to be confusing if the sound is coming say from a floor above or below.

*Settings:
Peace EQ*: Using online profile made by metal 571 to Equalize the peaks on the HD800 since I do not have the SDR mod.

*G6 Sound Blaster Connect Settings:
Surround:* Maxed out = Ultra-wide (as MLE stated to give biggest sound stage)
*Crystalizer: *Off (max seems to raise the sounds of footsteps somewhat, but at the cost of fatigue due to very sharp tones when gunshots are fired in-game)
*Bass:* Off (muffles sound by extending bass)
*Smart Volume:* Off ( I wish creative had better loudness equalization to control abrupt loud sounds in game such as gunshots. Keeping it on or off does not do much for me as abrupt loud sounds are still deafening )
*Dialog +:* Off (raises tones of voice so dialog can be clear, off because it reduces fidelity)
*Dolby:* Off
*Filter:* Fast roll off / Minimum Phase

*Comparison:
Xonar Essence w/ Dolby Headphone: *Sounds/footsteps seem muffled and seem to have a lot of reverb as mentioned by MLE. Audio does not sound as crisp and clear as the Modi + CTH as certain details are not heard.
*Modi Multibit + CTH*: I had switched to this as a setup since the Xonar's DH gave a lot of reverb which has made it not as effective as I believe it could be. This setup works fine if you want to hear audio cues but only in stereo.
*G6 + Modi Multibit + CTH*: I believe this is the best setup from the setups I have used. This makes footsteps/details distinct and keeps the HD800 well powered/flavored (warmth) with an amp of my choosing.

Overall, I am very satisfied with this purchase and would recommend it for any FPS players out there.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions regarding the setup.


----------



## HairyHook

Cerebrum2045 said:


> I just received the G6 and here's my initial impressions and opinions after using it for a few days.
> I know I'm not a professional audio reviewer or anything but as a heavy FPS player I hope this insight becomes helpful for you gamers out there. (this is also from the perspective of a PC gamer)
> 
> My setup for my audio chain goes as follows: PC -> Peace EQ for HD800 -> Sound BlasterX G6 -> SBX settings -> Modi Multibit -> Mass drop CTH -> HD800
> ...


Thank you so much for the detailed post. Really helps since I'm planning a similar setup. What program did you use to EQ the HD800? TIA


----------



## Oldboy1987

Fotopaul said:


> Doubt it. If I'm not mistaken you will have to convert that analogue line out to a digital signal so you can feed it into your headphone amp as a digital signal.
> 
> Something like this, it will, of course, affect the signal as you add yet another converter into the chain.
> https://www.amazon.de/AMANKA-Analog...words=analog+to+digital+audio+converter&psc=1
> ...




My only problem is the modmic


Fotopaul said:


> Doubt it. If I'm not mistaken you will have to convert that analogue line out to a digital signal so you can feed it into your headphone amp as a digital signal.
> 
> Something like this, it will, of course, affect the signal as you add yet another converter into the chain.
> https://www.amazon.de/AMANKA-Analog...words=analog+to+digital+audio+converter&psc=1
> ...



I have found these product, do you think it's better for me?

https://www.amazon.de/Turtle-Beach-Tactical-Controller-Headphone/dp/B01EM9PMO8

Has an optical out and an optical in to connect with my audio gd ... And for chat sound a can use the y splitter and put the mic inside


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 8, 2018)

For those who wanted to correct me regarding the Mobius. My point is that it's not made for consols and the only thing you will get from a console is a stereo signal regardless if you can connect to it thru USB or Bluetooth.


However, Mobius FAQ says the following:



			
				Mobius FAQ said:
			
		

> *Will Mobius work with my Xbox/Playstation/Switch?* Mobius will work with Xbox/PS4/Switch using only the analog cable (or Bluetooth if applicable). USB audio will not work with these devices. However, the headtracking, room emulation, and spatialization also work in analog and Bluetooth modes. So, even though you don't get USB audio, the analog connection with 3D audio is very compelling.



So it seems you get the VSS applied to a 2.0 signal and head tracking, i suspect that is a far cry of what the mobius will do if you feed it a multichannel stream from your PC via USB.


----------



## Lay.

I tried to play Fortnite couple of hours with PS4, HD800S and G6 surround set to ultra-wide.

The sound stage was just way too wide (I thought I would never say this). The footsteps sounded to come further away than they actually were. It was really confusing especially when the opponent was upstairs or downstairs.

Everything sounded normal after switching the G6 surround to wide. Is it just me, fortnite or what do others think with G6 and HD800(S) combo about G6 surround options wide/ultra-wide?

All in all I really like the G6 after the Astro MixAmp TR.


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 8, 2018)

Oldboy1987 said:


> My only problem is the modmic
> 
> 
> I have found these product, do you think it's better for me?
> ...



Yes the chat on xbox via usb (and not thru controller analogue port) is only possible for devices that have the certified chip in them, like the Mix AMP TR.

The TAC Elite controller does not have this chip but will need a cable that goes from the Xbox one control to the TAC Elite controller, this might be a viable solution.

From experience though, the solution to take chat from the hand controller may be a little hit or miss, meaning you can get static, humming and loop feedback. This can be very dependent on the cable used and the specific controller.

Also the optical out of the TAC elite is pass thru, it will only pass the signal thru not output the processed audio with VSS applied. So you will either need to set your xbox to output stereo over the Optical out or have an amp that can decode Dolby digita 5.1. So you will not get surround sound with this in your current setup.

As for the Surround sound of the TAC Elite, it's okay but not great, me personally i never really liked  TB's gaming gear.

I use the Mix Amp TR for this specific reason so that I can get good chat audio and the ability to control the mic level and sidetone very precisely.

So my setup is using the X7 for VSS and amp and then simply use the Mix Amp TR for chat, using the stream out to a line in on the X7.







So my advice would be to skip your current headphone amp if you can, and go with the G6+Mix Amp Tr for seamless surround and chat on the Xbox.

This solution will give you better surround sound from the XBOX (than neither TAC elite or Mix Amp Tr can provide on their own)


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Lay. said:


> I tried to play Fortnite couple of hours with PS4, HD800S and G6 surround set to ultra-wide.
> 
> The sound stage was just way too wide (I thought I would never say this). The footsteps sounded to come further away than they actually were. It was really confusing especially when the opponent was upstairs or downstairs.
> 
> ...



Maybe the HD800 already contribute to the "wideness" with its massive soundstage.


----------



## Hansotek

Fotopaul said:


> For those who wanted to correct me regarding the Mobius. My point is that it's not made for consols and the only thing you will get from a console is a stereo signal regardless if you can connect to it thru USB or Bluetooth.
> 
> 
> However, Mobius FAQ says the following:
> ...



BUT, you can use a separate device such as the G6 to get VSS and then pipe that into the Mobius as an analog signal - just like you would with any other headphone. You will get the 5.1 from the G6 or mixamp or whatever and then the Mobius will STILL add the room emulation and spacialization effects. The downside is that it will set you back another $150 or whatever.

Still testing to see how good that actually sounds, but my first impression was that it sounded pretty good. I played with no G6 tonight (waiting for long enough cables to arrive) and I was far less impressed than I was with the G6 VSS and Mobius room emulation combo.


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 8, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> BUT, you can use a separate device such as the G6 to get VSS and then pipe that into the Mobius as an analog signal



Yes of course that goes without saying, that was not the question or the point.

The Mobius on its own does not have the ability to take a multichannel stream, only stereo.(from consoles)

As for the double processing that will work for some, but most will not enjoy double processing.

For the purpose of actually getting surround and positional cues, it's, of course, better than mobious on its own.


----------



## Lay.

DrKrFfXx said:


> Maybe the HD800 already contribute to the "wideness" with its massive soundstage.



Yep. It might just be the combination.


----------



## Cerebrum2045

HairyHook said:


> Thank you so much for the detailed post. Really helps since I'm planning a similar setup. What program did you use to EQ the HD800? TIA



I used Peace Equalizer. I downloaded a HD800 preset made by Metal571 which toned downed the HD800's fatiguing peaks. I have not installed the SDR mod on my HD800 but I have heard that it gives the best sound signature without the need of using an EQ.


----------



## Monty1089 (Sep 8, 2018)

Hi guys.

Looking for some advice on a good pair of gaming headset. I know i said headset and not headphone. Most of the good open back headphones are really expensive or they are discontinued years ago and sold expensive on eBay, etc.

I had the Superlux HD681 with Brainwavz HM5 velour earpads but still did not like the sound. Also the clamp force was a bit much for me. So time to move on.

It has to be open back and with a mic.

I have narrowed it down to Sennheiser game one or Audio Technica PDG1. I live in Australia but somehow these headsets are still available given they are discontinued. The sennheiser game one is $200 whilst the Audio Technica PDG1 is $139. The ADG1 version is over $350 

Anyone share their experiences with these headsets if you have used them? 

Any other open back headsets worth taking a look at? 

You have the usual suspects like HyperX which i hear are good but they are all closed back headsets.

I want open back not only for the soundstage but also to be aware of my surroundings. I don't like closed headphones.

Also i game on my PS4 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Monty1089 said:


> I have narrowed it down to Sennheiser game one or Audio Technica PDG1. I live in Australia but somehow these headsets are still available given they are discontinued. The sennheiser game one is $200 whilst the Audio Technica PDG1 is $139. The ADG1 version is over $350
> 
> .



https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-5...sr=8-3&keywords=game+one+sennheiser+headphone

Game One at 135$, I'd take that.


----------



## Monty1089

Unfortunately i live in Australia so that rules out that price 

I can still get it but for $200 whilst the PDG1 is $60 cheaper.


----------



## Fegefeuer

PC37X from Massdrop


----------



## Monty1089

Fegefeuer said:


> PC37X from Massdrop



Thanks for that. I just had a quick look and it seems to be the same as the Game ones. A bit cheaper though including shipping to Australia. I might take a closer look since there is only 1 day left on the drop.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 8, 2018)

Monty1089 said:


> Unfortunately i live in Australia so that rules out that price
> 
> I can still get it but for $200 whilst the PDG1 is $60 cheaper.



That's a bummer. You cannot go wrong with those Audio Technnica I guess. I'm a sucker for Sennheiser headsets, though, I own the One, the Zero, and the PC373D. I prefer the PC373D over all of them, with the One detachable cable.



Monty1089 said:


> Thanks for that. I just had a quick look and it seems to be the same as the Game ones. A bit cheaper though including shipping to Australia. I might take a closer look since there is only 1 day left on the drop.



If they go through customs it is going to rip your budget apart. Ask around to see if Massdrop items go through customs in Australia.


----------



## headphonesonly

Monty1089 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Looking for some advice on a good pair of gaming headset. I know i said headset and not headphone. Most of the good open back headphones are really expensive or they are discontinued years ago and sold expensive on eBay, etc.
> 
> ...


The Qpad QH-85 are pretty good. They’re based off the Takstar HI2050


----------



## PurpleAngel

Monty1089 said:


> Hi guys.
> I had the Superlux HD681 with Brainwavz HM5 velour earpads but still did not like the sound. Also the clamp force was a bit much for me. So time to move on.
> It has to be open back and with a mic.
> I have narrowed it down to Sennheiser game one or Audio Technica PDG1. I live in Australia but somehow these headsets are still available given they are discontinued. The sennheiser game one is $200 whilst the Audio Technica PDG1 is $139. The ADG1 version is over $350
> ...


Find a used Sennheiser HD558 and add a modmic.
The HD558 has black rubber tape on the inside, removing the black rubber tape makes the HD558 somewhat more like the HD598.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 8, 2018)

Turning on the Mobius 3D with the G6 SBX is literally like turning on Dolby Headphone and Creative SBX at the same time. I don't see how that is anything but just redundant overprocessing and ruining sound qualiy.

Yes you get the Mobius head tracking but at the expense of two virtual surround processes muddling everything up.

Personal recommendation: don't do it. Use one VSS or the other. Not both. Since the Mobius does not correctly do VSS on consoles, it's just logical to turn that off and use SBX on the G6. No headtracking but at least it is correctly processed.

I think people who bought the Mobius should have heard many times on that thread that the Mobius VSS was first and foremost made with PC usage through usb in mind. Everything else is second fiddle. It does not have native FULL console support.

Of course it's your own product and you guys can do anything you want, but be realistic when you do things like tacking on VSS to an already decoded, (non Dolby Digital encoded)signal. It is far from ideal and not reflective of intended real world use.


----------



## illram (Sep 8, 2018)

Yeah I mean, wouldn't you also be headtracking two simulated stereo speakers, that are pumping out a VSS feed? I'm not sure how that would sound....



Lay. said:


> I tried to play Fortnite couple of hours with PS4, HD800S and G6 surround set to ultra-wide.
> 
> The sound stage was just way too wide (I thought I would never say this). The footsteps sounded to come further away than they actually were. It was really confusing especially when the opponent was upstairs or downstairs.
> 
> ...



To my ears there is a big step down in audio fidelity from wide to ultra wide. I'm not done figuring out what I prefer yet, but I am leaning to maybe thinking wide is sufficient, especially with the HD800. Unlike the X7 where you can turn it all the way up to 100% and it still sounds fine.


----------



## Hansotek

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Turning on the Mobius 3D with the G6 SBX is literally like turning on Dolby Headphone and Creative SBX at the same time. I don't see how that is anything but just redundant overprocessing and ruining sound qualiy.
> 
> Yes you get the Mobius head tracking but at the expense of two virtual surround processes muddling everything up.
> 
> ...



Respectfully, it’s not “literally” like that at all. You’re tacking on additional signal processing, but NOT a second virtual surround sound.

The G6 provides VSS on console, the Mobius does not - it only provides the head tracking and room emulation. There is no 5.1 conversation going on, therefore it is NOT redundant VSS. There is no intrinsic “surround” element with the Mobius on analog input, it is 2.0 only plus the HT and RE processing. Therefore it is not a “use one or the other” proposition on the VSS - one simply does not have the option to use VSS from the Mobius on console, period. If you want VSS on console while using the Mobius, it has to come from somewhere else.

You’re talking about 3 separate effects here... It’s the difference between 3 effects coming from one device VS. 2 effects coming from one device and 1 effect coming from another.


----------



## mindbomb

I have not used a mobius, but presumably for the head tracking to work, you must have virtual speakers, and the head tracker provides data on which virtual speakers to use. So it is another case of virtual surround sound.


----------



## GenEricOne

mindbomb said:


> I have not used a mobius, but presumably for the head tracking to work, you must have virtual speakers, and the head tracker provides data on which virtual speakers to use. So it is another case of virtual surround sound.


I have a Mobius and this is correct. However, the only possible input signals into a Mobius from consoles are 2.0, with which the Mobius will virtualize 2 front speakers in a room when using 3D mode. Not everyone will consider this 'surround', but rather just virtual positioning.

There's 4 possible virtualization/audio processing states when combining a G6/X7/external VSS with a Mobius on a console:

2.0 output to the external VSS, passed along untouched to the Mobius with standard 2.0 mode. This will be like any other headphone.
2.0 output to the external VSS, passed along untouched to the Mobius in 3D mode. The Mobius will virtualize 2 'front' speakers in a room. Headtracking will move the audio relative to the motion of your head but when centered it will virtualize two speakers in front of you, no surround effect.
Surround (5.1 or 7.1) output to the external VSS, which will process a virtual surround sound 2.0 signal intended for headphones to the Mobius in 3D mode. Instead of virtualizing 2 headphone ear cups, the Mobius will virtualize 2 'front' speakers in a room, unaware the original signal was surround. Headtracking will move the audio relative to the motion of your head but when centered the virtualized surround sound will be playing out of virtualized speakers in front of you. This is double virtualization, but not technically double virtualized surround. In my use, this is really undesirable; I prefer plain 2.0 with no virtualized positioning at all.
Surround (5.1 or 7.1) output to the external VSS, which will process a virtual surround sound 2.0 signal intended for headphones to the Mobius in standard 2.0 mode. There will be no headtracking and audio will not move relative to the motion of your head but you have virtualized surround sound. This is generally the best case scenario for consoles and a Mobius.

General asterisk with all this, "external VSS" can also be built-in apps like Sonic or Atmos for Headphones built into an Xbox One, so the Xbox One will output a virtual surround sound 2.0 signal intended for headphones straight out of the console (either the controller or HDMI/optical, depending on settings and configuration).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 9, 2018)

Hansotek said:


> Respectfully, it’s not “literally” like that at all. You’re tacking on additional signal processing, but NOT a second virtual surround sound.
> 
> The G6 provides VSS on console, the Mobius does not - it only provides the head tracking and room emulation. There is no 5.1 conversation going on, therefore it is NOT redundant VSS. There is no intrinsic “surround” element with the Mobius on analog input, it is 2.0 only plus the HT and RE processing. Therefore it is not a “use one or the other” proposition on the VSS - one simply does not have the option to use VSS from the Mobius on console, period. If you want VSS on console while using the Mobius, it has to come from somewhere else.
> 
> You’re talking about 3 separate effects here... It’s the difference between 3 effects coming from one device VS. 2 effects coming from one device and 1 effect coming from another.


It IS tacking on another virtual surround. That is EXACTLY what the 3D button on the Mobius does. It is a virtual surround dsp WITH headtracking. There is NO way to do headtracking without it. So, sorry, but you're wrong.  You are INDEED using a virtual surround DSP on the Mobius in addition to the virtual surround DSP on the G6. It is NOT the intended use. Two competing surround emulation processes, except in this case, you're using the Mobious vss to process ALREADY processed stereo. Stereo that has already simulated surround.

*In layman's terms: The Mobius (in a 2ch emulation setting) emulates a two speaker setup. As in literally sounding like you're in a room with two speakers in front of you. So what happens when it's trying to emulate 2 front speakers that are TRYING to emulate 5.1 speakers? Not very nice sound. This is what you are trying to do when using the Mobius 3D ON with an SBX processed signal.*

Have you ever used VSS made for headphones and output that to speakers? It doesn't sound right.

Well, *this* is a virtualized version of that.

And funny, someone tried to make that very argument and Audeze themselves corrected them, stating this very thing. *It IS virtual surround emulation even with 2 channel sources, as in two speakers in front of you being emulated.*

If you take a 2ch source and turn on 3D, rear sound cues will STILL come from in front of you, the way it does in a real 2ch setup. It sounds different from audio cues made to be heard in front, but the virtual space is still the same.

Unless people are advocating the use of headphone-centric virtual surround for front speakers, then this really isn't debatable. This is not intended use, and this will sound...weird, IMHO.


----------



## Yethal

Mimic cables now makes dedicated headphone+modmic cables. Just gonna leave this here
https://www.mimic-cables.com/products/custom-headphone-modmic-cable


----------



## Moxx88

So Mobius doesnt work properly with consoles even not with a x7 between? What mades the mobius so special besides of the headtracking? If i got it correctly its the onboard VSS? Basically an all in one device? 

Is the result better then a setup with highend headphones and the soundblaster x7?


----------



## Monty1089 (Sep 9, 2018)

DrKrFfXx said:


> That's a bummer. You cannot go wrong with those Audio Technnica I guess. I'm a sucker for Sennheiser headsets, though, I own the One, the Zero, and the PC373D. I prefer the PC373D over all of them, with the One detachable cable.
> 
> 
> 
> If they go through customs it is going to rip your budget apart. Ask around to see if Massdrop items go through customs in Australia.





headphonesonly said:


> The Qpad QH-85 are pretty good. They’re based off the Takstar HI2050





PurpleAngel said:


> Find a used Sennheiser HD558 and add a modmic.
> The HD558 has black rubber tape on the inside, removing the black rubber tape makes the HD558 somewhat more like the HD598.



Thanks guys for the replies.

I had a good look into all those headsets today but bought the Sennheiser game one black earlier today on eBay. It was listed as used but almost brand new condition. It was $175 AUD minus vouchers and cash back got me down to $125 free shipping.

Those Sennheiser HD 558, 598, etc are all very expensive on eBay and also come from USA so delivery would be a fair wait. These game one's are local so i will get it within a few days.

The Sennheiser PC 373D was $160 brand new but didn't come with the PS4 cable so that's an extra $20 to make it $180

The Massdrop PC37X was pretty good as well but after tax, shipping and currency conversion that was around $170.

Also i researched about the Audio Technica PDG1's. Some people said it had a narrow soundstage compared to the ADG1. It also had smaller drivers. The microphone was excellent quality though. But since this was for fps gaming like Call of Duty and Battlefield i really wanted a decent headset with good soundtstage. 

Hopefully this headset is good and the last time i need to buy one.

I will report back once i get it and share my experiences. Hopefully later in the week


----------



## Fotopaul

Moxx88 said:


> So Mobius doesnt work properly with consoles even not with a x7 between? What mades the mobius so special besides of the headtracking? If i got it correctly its the onboard VSS? Basically an all in one device?


With the X7 inbetween the Mobious will just act like any other headphones because if you enable the processing on the Mobious it will process the X7 VSS and you will get double VSS which not only mess up the surround cues but will sound like crap.

Yes i know some like double processing, there are some people that think the X7 and Mix AMP sounds good if you double process the signal... it sounds terrible and not at all accurate. 


Moxx88 said:


> Is the result better then a setup with highend headphones and the soundblaster x7?




Not really, since the X7 has excellent VSS on it's own and it can be paired with the headphone of your choice. And since you won't be using the PC feature (when you connect it to a console) the Mobius will be just like any other headphones.


----------



## JLMartel

Okay guy.

I need your help.  I've been doing a lot of research, trying to pick out my first real pair of headphones. (I did have the B&w P7, which I recently gave to a family member.) *Disclaimer, these won't be my last pair of headphones but they will be my only pair for a while.* 

These headphones are general use but I do game a fair bit more than I should which has made this choice far harder. Mostly OW and competitive shooters.  I've narrowed it down to the modhouse Argon mk3, AKG 712 (I truely hate the color scheme), and the Sennheiser 600 or 660s. Originally I was sold on the 660s but the reviews make them seem a like a bad value. That being said I may be able to get them at about 420$ USD.  The akgs I'm still unsure on price but let's assume 530 USD and we'll mod house at the website price. 355 USD plus shipping.

Help a brother out!

I'll be driving them with audio gd 11.38.


----------



## Cerebrum2045

Lay. said:


> I tried to play Fortnite couple of hours with PS4, HD800S and G6 surround set to ultra-wide.
> 
> The sound stage was just way too wide (I thought I would never say this). The footsteps sounded to come further away than they actually were. It was really confusing especially when the opponent was upstairs or downstairs.
> 
> ...



I think positioning for up and down is not as clear in general for VSS technology currently.
I personally like ultrawide with the HD800 but then again I play different games like Escape from Tarkov and R6 Siege.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

JLMartel said:


> Okay guy.
> 
> I need your help.  I've been doing a lot of research, trying to pick out my first real pair of headphones. (I did have the B&w P7, which I recently gave to a family member.) *Disclaimer, these won't be my last pair of headphones but they will be my only pair for a while.*
> 
> ...



Sennheiser x Massdrop HD58x

Good soundstage, great positional cues, lively sound signature and at 150$ you cannot beat them in value. The drop drop is currently active and it ends in 18h.


----------



## Sh4gz (Sep 11, 2018)

Advice please. I have a ps4pro in my living room. i sit about 8 feet from the console. For chat based games i am looking to use my DT770 250ohm with modmic (use this for PC games). Say if i purchased the SB g6, is the hookup usb only to the ps4? If so i was going to run a usb extention to my couch and fiddle with the g6 there. IF not,  i am not sure what to do. i can purchase a wireless ps4 headset, not sure on the quality compared to my DT's. Also i can spend 150.00 for g6 for ps4 & pc used compared to 300 for just a ps4 wireless headset. Other option is get a wired headset and run a usb extended cable to my seating area.   Thoughts? Help much appreciated.   Thanks for your time


----------



## AppleheadMay

A question about the Mobius:

This is what I found in the FAQ:


> *Will Mobius work with my Xbox/Playstation/Switch?* Mobius will work with Xbox/PS4/Switch using only the analog cable (or Bluetooth if applicable). USB audio will not work with these devices. However, the headtracking, room emulation, and spatialization also work in analog and Bluetooth modes. So, even though you don't get USB audio, the analog connection with 3D audio is very compelling.


So does the Mobius do all the same regarding 3D/Virtual sound whether connected analog, Bluetooth or digital or does it do something less when you don't use USB?


----------



## Fotopaul

No it wont, since it will treat everything coming from analog/Bluetooth as 2.0 stereo and apply it's processing based on that.


----------



## 8bitg33k (Sep 11, 2018)

Question about fixed soundstage - in regards to Audeze's Mobius and VR in general.

This article (and others) states:

"If all you’re looking for is surround sound, you might not want to spring the extra $100 for head tracking, regardless of how cool it is. If you’re into VR, however? Boy, oh boy. When you’re immersed in a virtual environment, with all the ducking, bobbing and weaving that requires, having a surround sound headset with head tracking is...intense."

The implication being that VR doesn't already feature a fixed soundstage. But any headphone that is connected to a HMD such as a Vive or Oculus should have spatial audio headtracking built in from the start. So in short, I don't need the Mobius to make VR more immersive when in fact any headphone will suffice as long as it is connected to the HMD. Am I correct or am I missing something?


----------



## Aliv3

Hi! 
I need help choosing a new headphone. I was using a sennheiser pc360 but unfortunately it no longer works in properly, and I was thinking of getting the Beyerdynic MMX 300 2nd Generation but then I was researching on the Mobius audeze and now I'm confused. I use headphones to play, listen to music and watching movies. To play I have those linked to a Astro mixamp 5.8 that is connected to an Xbox.
so my question is the following, 
do you guys think I should wait and grab the Audeze or for  what I use the Beyerdynic is enough? 
Should I upgrade my amp as well?
Thanks for your time guys!


----------



## headphonesonly

Aliv3 said:


> Hi!
> I need help choosing a new headphone. I was using a sennheiser pc360 but unfortunately it no longer works in properly, and I was thinking of getting the Beyerdynic MMX 300 2nd Generation but then I was researching on the Mobius audeze and now I'm confused. I use headphones to play, listen to music and watching movies. To play I have those linked to a Astro mixamp 5.8 that is connected to an Xbox.
> so my question is the following,
> do you guys think I should wait and grab the Audeze or for  what I use the Beyerdynic is enough?
> ...


Get this:
https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-598-SR-Open-Back/dp/B06WRMZZ45/
And this:
https://www.amazon.com/adapter-Microphone-Universal-Android-headphone/dp/B01HB9H4LK/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 11, 2018)

Aliv3 said:


> Hi!
> I need help choosing a new headphone. I was using a sennheiser pc360 but unfortunately it no longer works in properly, and I was thinking of getting the Beyerdynic MMX 300 2nd Generation but then I was researching on the Mobius audeze and now I'm confused. I use headphones to play, listen to music and watching movies. To play I have those linked to a Astro mixamp 5.8 that is connected to an Xbox.
> so my question is the following,
> do you guys think I should wait and grab the Audeze or for  what I use the Beyerdynic is enough?
> ...


The Sennheiser Game One and PC37X are the same headphone and are a slight improvement to the PC360. Look for one of those.

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-G4ME-ONE-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00JQDOALC/


----------



## DrKrFfXx

headphonesonly said:


> Get this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-598-SR-Open-Back/dp/B06WRMZZ45/
> And this:
> https://www.amazon.com/adapter-Microphone-Universal-Android-headphone/dp/B01HB9H4LK/



Dude, you have a 58x  recommend him that haha

It is so nice for gaming.


----------



## Aliv3

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll research on the sennheiser 598 Sr.


----------



## headphonesonly (Sep 11, 2018)

DrKrFfXx said:


> Dude, you have a 58x  recommend him that haha
> 
> It is so nice for gaming.


It definitely is but the 598 are more efficient and will be easier to drive on a mixamp. The 58X are also easy to drive but when im using my mixamp I still had to double amp it which is never ideal.

Plus the the Ketdirect boom pro makes it more convenient.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

headphonesonly said:


> It definitely is but the 598 are more efficient and will be easier to drive on a mixamp. The 58X are also easy to drive but when im using my mixamp I still had to double amp it which is never ideal.
> 
> Plus the the Ketdirect boom pro makes it more convenient.



I can get the 58x very loud with my GSX1000, that people complain about its weak amp section.


----------



## BrightCandle

DrKrFfXx said:


> I can get the 58x very loud with my GSX1000, that people complain about its weak amp section.



I can get the HD 598's loud on the Sennheiser GSX 1000, but the actual bass impact and overall sound quality is kind of meh. A Magni 2 is a very noticeable upgrade when double amped. I wouldn't replace it as it is the best surround implementation I have so far heard, but the amp stage isn't great.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

BrightCandle said:


> I can get the HD 598's loud on the Sennheiser GSX 1000, but the actual bass impact and overall sound quality is kind of meh. A Magni 2 is a very noticeable upgrade when double amped. I wouldn't replace it as it is the best surround implementation I have so far heard, but the amp stage isn't great.



I'ma double amp the GSX with the G6, just for the lols.


----------



## Yngvarr

DrKrFfXx said:


> I'ma double amp the GSX with the G6, just for the lols.



I double amp my GSX with a Magni 3.
Works well enough


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 13, 2018)

DrKrFfXx said:


> I'ma double amp the GSX with the G6, just for the lols.



Just so you know that when you double amp, volume boosts are very minimal. You'll basically be getting the volume output of just the G6. Though I guess that's enough for the Senns. The G6 does get a LOOOOT louder than the GSX.

I played a lot yesterday with the GSX1000, and it reinforced my belief that Sennheiser's GSX surround is absolutely the best I've heard.

I can't say this enough, but I hope SENNHEISER makes another device with GSX surround that either has a very strong amp, or even better, outputs GSX to a line out/digital out. I'd definitely spring for one.


----------



## ViolentPeace

Hi,

I currently own a AKG712 pro, DT990 (600ohm) and a AD700. Combined with an old titanium HD sound card and Fiio e9.

I am looking for a new amp/dac solution which will bring out the best from the AKG 712 (priority 1) and dt 990 (600ohm) (priority 2). My current setup does not feel like it is doing any justice to my thirstier headphones. Surround sound is preferable, with my main focus being on gaming.

1) was about to pull the trigger on a creative x7 but then couldn't decide if upgrading to the Limited Edition variant would be worth it? Or if it would be better to purchase the new G6 or go for another combo. 
I am only interested in bringing the best out of my headphones and have no use for a speaker amp.

2) How would these solutions compare to a Schiit stack (I live in London so more expensive), JDS labs O2/ODAC and other AMP/Dacs in a similar price range? I understand there would be no VSS, but would the quality of the components make up for it? Positional audio is important to me.

Many thanks if you have taken the time to read this.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Sep 13, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just so you know that when you double amp, volume boosts are very minimal. You'll basically be getting the volume output of just the G6. Though I guess that's enough for the Senns. The G6 does get a LOOOOT louder than the GSX.
> 
> I played a lot yesterday with the GSX1000, and it reinforced my belief that Sennheiser's GSX surround is absolutely the best I've heard.
> 
> I can't say this enough, but I hope SENNHEISER makes another device with GSX surround that either has a very strong amp, or even better, outputs GSX to a line out/digital out. I'd definitely spring for one.



I was joking. I'm very fine with the GSX volume, and indeed, the virtual processing is hella better than the G6, it has not just width but depth and overall cohesion also.

The G6 does get loud indeed, and I like the sound of it when in stereo in direct mode, very clean, very likeable sound signature. The VSS is okayish. Its a jack of all trades, with all its inputs and outputs and overall compatibility, I really like it very much.

I am all on board with you for a improved GSX. Just think about the GSX processing and the G6 internals/amp/compatibility.


----------



## headphonesonly

ViolentPeace said:


> Hi,
> 
> I currently own a AKG712 pro, DT990 (600ohm) and a AD700. Combined with an old titanium HD sound card and Fiio e9.
> 
> ...


The X7 is only worth if you plan on also using speakers with it.
If your just gonna be using headphones I would just get the G6. Creative claims that it can drive 600ohm headphones but if amping is still an issue then you can just hook up your fiio e9 to the line out port of the G6.


----------



## illram

So I would say that, given the audio quality difference when turning up surround all the way, the X7 is still a better virtual surround device than the G6. If the cost is not an issue I would still get that over the G6 for console headphone VSS duties. (The non limited edition).

But for cost effectiveness yeah the G6 is a better bet. Also depending on the quality of the headphones you might not notice a huge difference.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ViolentPeace said:


> Hi,
> 
> I currently own a AKG712 pro, DT990 (600ohm) and a AD700. Combined with an old titanium HD sound card and Fiio e9.
> 
> ...



The "old" Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) makes a good DAC function, and if your fine with using it's CMSS-3D Headphone surround sound, then you really do not need to replace it (upgrade it).
I doubt(?) the Creative X7's DAC function offers any noticeable improvement, in audio quality, over the Ti-HD
Just get a headphone amplifer and connect it to the Ti-HD line-output (RCA) jacks.
The Ti-HD can output it's CMSS-3D thru the line-output (RCA).

The Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube headphone amplifier ($240) can be connected to the Ti-HD.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DarkVoice-...312699?hash=item3d4ba818fb:g:oqgAAOSwgEhbh0Ou
Or if you prefer a solid state head amp, check out the Schiit Asgard 2 ($249).
http://www.schiit.com/products/asgard-2


----------



## PurpleAngel

Aliv3 said:


> Hi!
> I need help choosing a new headphone. I was using a sennheiser pc360 but unfortunately it no longer works in properly, and I was thinking of getting the Beyerdynic MMX 300 2nd Generation but then I was researching on the Mobius audeze and now I'm confused. I use headphones to play, listen to music and watching movies. To play I have those linked to a Astro mixamp 5.8 that is connected to an Xbox.
> so my question is the following,
> do you guys think I should wait and grab the Audeze or for  what I use the Beyerdynic is enough?
> ...


I woud say to buy another Senneheiser 50-Ohm headphone (the PC360 is 50-Ohm), as the Astro Mix-amp should not have a problem drivng any 50-Ohm headphone.
Buy a used HD558 and remove the black rubber tape, from inside the cups amd get a Modmic.
HD598 would be fine too (just cost more)
Or any of the newer HD569 or HD579 or HD599 headphones.

You can always get an add-on external headphone amplifer and connect it (daisy chain)to the Mix-amps headphone jack, technically that is double amplifier, but it's not a big deal any the combo should work fine.


----------



## Aliv3

PurpleAngel said:


> I woud say to buy another Senneheiser 50-Ohm headphone (the PC360 is 50-Ohm), as the Astro Mix-amp should not have a problem drivng any 50-Ohm headphone.
> Buy a used HD558 and remove the black rubber tape, from inside the cups amd get a Modmic.
> HD598 would be fine too (just cost more)
> Or any of the newer HD569 or HD579 or HD599 headphones.
> ...



Thanks for the answer. the problem is that I already had several sennheiser (360 / game zero / momentum) and liked to try another brand. If I have to upgrade my amp also no problem.


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can't say this enough, but I hope SENNHEISER makes another device with GSX surround that either has a very strong amp, or even better, outputs GSX to a line out/digital out. I'd definitely spring for one.


I have a bunch of suggestions on how they can improve:
1. add 24 bit support to the 7.1 mode
2. add specific eq presets tailor made for different sennheiser models - the hd 579/599/600/650, 700, 800/800s, 820
3. work with ESS on the dac and amp. They have been killing it lately on things like LG phones. Sennheiser already used their dacs previously on the orpheus 2's dac.

and maintain a similar price point.


----------



## ViolentPeace

Thank you for your advice.

I researched the Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube amp, however was put off by the size of the unit and how crazy hot the tubes get (plus potential electricity bill?). 
For those reasons, I guess solid state would be my preference. 

It seems the general consensus is Schiit would be a very solid choice. unfortunately EU prices are much higher:
Schiit asgard 2 = £260 not including cables or delivery fee!
Schiit magni 3=  £116 without cables, but including delivery fee.
Currently can't find any second hand units online. 

I'm close to just ordering a fresh magni 3 and hooking it up to the ti-HD. Perhaps In the future I could sell the ti-hd and get a second hand gsx 1000 and combine that with the magni? 
Any other recommendations? 
Without being able to test these products, it is very hard to make decisions. Being new to all this only compounds the problem.


----------



## TeeReQs

I had the a magni at one point, that I had hooked up to my Titanium XFi HD. I eventually bought an X7, and still use it for my PC and consoles. I think the X7 makes sense if you have more than one input such as multiple consoles as well as your PC. Otherwise, I didn't really gain much in terms of VSS between the two. SBX and CMSS-3D are very similar.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 14, 2018)

I think the biggest problem with CMSS 3D is the cold/bright signature that it causes. SBX is a lot more naturally toned and pairs better with most headphones. Of course you can just eq all the harshness out of CMSS 3D but then you're just compensating.

It's the polar opposite of Dolby Headphone which has a very warm tonal characteristic.

Audeze themselves recommend the Music preset for the Mobius in 3D mode because their implementation of virtual surround is on the colder/bright side, and the Music preset reinjects the warmth lost by the VSS. Truth be told, the presets on the Mobius are on the subtle side. It's not like say the GSX which have very obvious eq changes per preset. I like the Mobius on Music preset even in stereo because it reminds me so much of the LCD2 of old.

Btw guys I'm back from my 2 week staycation, so hopefully I'll get to work this weekend to put out the G6 review. Warning: it's gonna be positive. Lol

For my backers on (you know where), I have an update so check in.


----------



## dakanao (Sep 14, 2018)

Would the Turtle Beach DSS be enough to give the K7xx great positional cues?

Also I was wondering which headphone would have the best imaging just out of the DSS/Mixamp alone, with no external amp?


----------



## headphonesonly

dakanao said:


> Would the Turtle Beach DSS be enough to give the K7xx great positional cues?
> 
> Also I was wondering which headphone would have the best imaging just out of the DSS/Mixamp alone, with no external amp?


G6>Mixamp>DSS

The Mixamp has a slightly more powerful amp but still not enough to drive the k7xx. DSS sounded muffled and positional audio wasn't as good as the mixamp.
Both have terrible background noise.

For the K7xx i would get the G6. It's the best out of the three.


----------



## dakanao

headphonesonly said:


> G6>Mixamp>DSS
> 
> The Mixamp has a slightly more powerful amp but still not enough to drive the k7xx. DSS sounded muffled and positional audio wasn't as good as the mixamp.
> Both have terrible background noise.
> ...


I'm still gaming with the xbox 360, I was wondering if the G6 would work with the 360?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ViolentPeace said:


> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> I researched the Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube amp, however was put off by the size of the unit and how crazy hot the tubes get (plus potential electricity bill?).
> For those reasons, I guess solid state would be my preference.
> ...



I'm not seeing the GSX 1000 offering a worthwhile advantage, over the Ti-HD/Head amp (Magni 3) combo. 
Unless you decide you want something different from Creative's CMSS-3D, can't see any worthwhile reason for replacing the Ti-HD
Creative has not updated the Ti-HD's drivers in over 2 years, but as long as they keep working for you, might as well just keep using the Ti-HD


----------



## Yethal

ViolentPeace said:


> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> I researched the Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube amp, however was put off by the size of the unit and how crazy hot the tubes get (plus potential electricity bill?).
> For those reasons, I guess solid state would be my preference.
> ...


Eu prices already include vat while american do not. Schiit products aren't that much more expensive, it's just the difference in price presentation


----------



## Yethal

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm not seeing the GSX 1000 offering a worthwhile advantage, over the Ti-HD/Head amp (Magni 3) combo.
> Unless you decide you want something different from Creative's CMSS-3D, can't see any worthwhile reason for replacing the Ti-HD
> Creative has not updated the Ti-HD's drivers in over 2 years, but as long as they keep working for you, might as well just keep using the Ti-HD


Ti-HD is a pcie device so it's unsuitable for laptops and mini-itx pcs


----------



## WhiteHartMart

What are the default/out of the box settings on the G6.  Would like one to use predominantly with my PS4 (and occasional XB1), but don;t have a Windows PC and Creative have no plans to launch the companion software on Mac   I'm thinking, the G6 is pointless for me without the ability to amend some of the settings?


----------



## Fegefeuer

You definitely need to save settings on that box. I think default is 50% SBX, Dolby Digital Dynamic range reduced, disco lights on. Can you do it a friend's house or even at work?

Whenever I boot up I have to switch to headphones in the software panel. At least it loads the correct settings once I do. *Anyone else have this problem?*
Have to check if this means that "speaker mode" is active once I turn off my PC and use the consoles. It was on the first day and it sounded horrible. Gotta check later again

Also: setting up Headphone VSS to Line/Optical Out setting doesn't stick but at least it works.


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> What are the default/out of the box settings on the G6.  Would like one to use predominantly with my PS4 (and occasional XB1), but don;t have a Windows PC and Creative have no plans to launch the companion software on Mac   I'm thinking, the G6 is pointless for me without the ability to amend some of the settings?


Set up a virtual machine and pass the device to it for configuration.


----------



## Fotopaul

So the G6 has no support for OSX ?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> Set up a virtual machine and pass the device to it for configuration.



Thanks - excuse my ignorance - but won't that mean extra cost for the Windows licence??  (and maybe the VM software also?).


----------



## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> Thanks - excuse my ignorance - but won't that mean extra cost for the Windows licence??  (and maybe the VM software also?).


Virtualbox is open source. As for the Windows license you can use it for 30 days without buying the key. Plenty of time to configure the device.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> Virtualbox is open source. As for the Windows license you can use it for 30 days without buying the key. Plenty of time to configure the device.



Thank you


----------



## illram

As far as I know you can use Windows without activating forever. Just need to be OK with the Activate Windows watermark in the corner, and you cannot change the wallpaper or make other customizations. (But if you have another licensed version, the wallpaper changes on that will stick to all the other unlicensed versions).

Source: I've been running three different Windows 10 PC's without activation for about 1.5 years now.


----------



## headphonesonly

WhiteHartMart said:


> What are the default/out of the box settings on the G6.  Would like one to use predominantly with my PS4 (and occasional XB1), but don;t have a Windows PC and Creative have no plans to launch the companion software on Mac   I'm thinking, the G6 is pointless for me without the ability to amend some of the settings?


I think the default settings are
Surround: Wide
Crystalizer: 50%
Everything else is off


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 17, 2018)

Just find someone with a pc. Connect it, update the firmware, download the software, and change your settings. There's no way you don't have at least one person who can let you sit for a few moments to do this.


----------



## cottonthemoth

My pal just got DT 990 Pro 250 ohm phones and a Fiio E10K. The max volume even in high gain mode isnt quite up to snuff in games-- and true to reviews the highs are crazy sharp and I can see where fatigue would be a factor with these. The mids are practically non-existant compared to my Sony MA900's which are much more neutral, but don't hold a candle to the bass that the DT990's can push out.

Would a stronger amp make much of a difference in the midrange? Straight out of the box, he has bass rattle in the left driver too, so a refund is imminent.


----------



## headphonesonly

cottonthemoth said:


> My pal just got DT 990 Pro 250 ohm phones and a Fiio E10K. The max volume even in high gain mode isnt quite up to snuff in games-- and true to reviews the highs are crazy sharp and I can see where fatigue would be a factor with these. The mids are practically non-existant compared to my Sony MA900's which are much more neutral, but don't hold a candle to the bass that the DT990's can push out.
> 
> Would a stronger amp make much of a difference in the midrange? Straight out of the box, he has bass rattle in the left driver too, so a refund is imminent.


Not sure if getting a stronger solid state amp like a magni 3 would help sound quality. But a tube amp can help calm the highs down a bit but will increase bass response.

Or you can buy some craft foam and see if that will help tame the highs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 17, 2018)

Don't expect anything to alter the curve. You want more mids, you're gonna have to reduce the highs and bass with eq. A better/stronger amp is advisable for cleaning up the sound quality, not for adding/taking anything away in terms of raw balance.


----------



## PurpleAngel

cottonthemoth said:


> My pal just got DT 990 Pro 250 ohm phones and a Fiio E10K. The max volume even in high gain mode isnt quite up to snuff in games-- and true to reviews the highs are crazy sharp and I can see where fatigue would be a factor with these. The mids are practically non-existant compared to my Sony MA900's which are much more neutral, but don't hold a candle to the bass that the DT990's can push out.
> Would a stronger amp make much of a difference in the midrange? Straight out of the box, he has bass rattle in the left driver too, so a refund is imminent.


The DT990 has a strong bass/treble, which overshadows the mids, but the mids are normally clear
I would say my Soundmagic HP200, is better then my DT990


----------



## BunnyNamedCraig

I have creative X7,Mobius and Xbone. 

How do intelligent people work the chat and volume? Either straight out of the controller, or in conjunction with the X7. Can’t make sense of it. 

THANK YOU!


----------



## Yethal

MTMECraig said:


> I have creative X7,Mobius and Xbone.
> 
> How do intelligent people work the chat and volume? Either straight out of the controller, or in conjunction with the X7. Can’t make sense of it.
> 
> THANK YOU!


On Xbox you're screwed. One way is to use 3,5mm headset splitter, plug it into the controller, plug microphone in one end and a 3.5mm to rca cable into the other and then plug the rca end into rca in connector on the X7.


----------



## Fotopaul (Sep 18, 2018)

MTMECraig said:


> I have creative X7,Mobius and Xbone.
> 
> How do intelligent people work the chat and volume? Either straight out of the controller or in conjunction with the X7. Can’t make sense of it.
> 
> THANK YOU!



Neither X7 or Mobius will support chat on Xbox.  The best solution is to get an mixamp Pro TR (Xbox version) for chat and route the signal (stream out from the Mixamp) into the Line in on the X7, this way you get full control of the mic and you can precisely adjust the chat volume with the X7 mixer. ( you will have to split the mic and headpone calbe, so you connect the mic to the Mixamp and the headphones to the X7)

Not sure how the Mobius mic is routed, but assuming it's TRS from the headphone jack you can simply add a splitter to it. I assume this means you simply forgo the Mobious base and processing, I'm sure some of the Mobious owners has more info on this subject.

There is another solution to use the controller audio for the chat, but it's a messy one and will in many cases (depending on cables, interference and controller) introduce humming and noise.

You will then have to use a splitter on the xbox controller audio port and then connect your mic into the controller and then route the headphone part of the Y cable (going from the controller) to the X7 line in.

Not really tried this with the X7, but all other surround headphones who don't support USB chat on xbox uses this workaround one way or the other.

If you really need chat on the xbox the Mixamp TR is the easiest and best solution, albeit will cost you some money.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 18, 2018)

I gave my best friend who lives on the other side of the world my Game Ones, and it made me had to bring out my HE-400. So I decided to take out the Dekoni TH900 hybrid pads and use the Dekoni Beyerdynamic DT Elite Velours. While I enoy the TH900 pads for it's darker more in your face rawness, there's something special about the DT elite velours on the HE-400. The sound is much sharper and airy, and imaging is improved quite a bit. I think this is why I loved the HE400 with the Hifiman velours from the beginning, though these pads are even better.  I've fallen in love with the HE400 again and when I think of planar magic, I think of this presentation. It's definitely unique and unlike any typical dynamic.

I assume the Massdrop 4XX is just a rerelease of the HE-400, and at $169 for a new pair, if I didn't already have my HE-400, I'd buy that for myself. Aside from my Koss clip ons, there's no headphone that has made me go back and buy them over and over like the HE400. It's not perfect, but man, what it does right, is special to me. The depth of its bass, the crystalline top end, and the open planar imaging is addictive.


*Another subject however, HOW COME NO ONE TOLD ME MASSDROP HAD A $500 KOSS ESP950  electrostatic REBRAND!? That's CRAZY. And the pads look WAY more comfy! I wanna try it! :'(*


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Another subject however, HOW COME NO ONE TOLD ME MASSDROP HAD A $500 KOSS ESP950 electrostatic REBRAND!? That's CRAZY. And the pads look WAY more comfy! I wanna try it! :'(*



I've been eyeing them off too.

Am so glad I don't have the cash in the bank at the moment, otherwise I'd probably bite.

I'm going to make a pledge to myself right here and now.

No more headphones until the A16 is delivered and I've culled off at least 50% of the ones I currently have.


----------



## illram

I thought the 4xx was the 400i, just with the old headband?

Yes the 95x is a pretty sweet deal, if you want to dip your feet with e-stats. I recently took mine out of my current setup, as I was using it for so long and wanted to try something else. Now I want to get Vesper velour pads for it so I don't feel left out...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> I thought the 4xx was the 400i, just with the old headband?
> 
> Yes the 95x is a pretty sweet deal, if you want to dip your feet with e-stats. I recently took mine out of my current setup, as I was using it for so long and wanted to try something else. Now I want to get Vesper velour pads for it so I don't feel left out...


Looking at the tonal balance, you're probably right. Why, WHY would they use the old headband though? That thing is prove to breaking where the bars slide up and down. That part'' glue separates from the leather.

Ah well.

I'm glad i kept mine though my cables are all shot to hell. I'd probably would actually spend money to have someone convert the entries into basic 3.5mm mono inputs or something.


----------



## Oldboy1987

Hi@all, I need your help please.
I have the Audio GD 11.28 for my Ps4 and Xbox (Headphones) but I will buy the active Speakers Audioengine A5+. My Question is, can I connect these Speakers+Amp with my Consoles? And can you say me please, how can I do that 

Thank you very much! 
Sorry, my English is very bad


----------



## AxelCloris

Oldboy1987 said:


> Hi@all, I need your help please.
> I have the Audio GD 11.28 for my Ps4 and Xbox (Headphones) but I will buy the active Speakers Audioengine A5+. My Question is, can I connect these Speakers+Amp with my Consoles? And can you say me please, how can I do that
> 
> Thank you very much!
> Sorry, my English is very bad


If you already have the Audio GD connected to your PS4 and Xbox, you can connect the A5+ to the Audio GD's DAC Out output.


----------



## Oldboy1987

Yes I have already connected my audio gd to my Consoles. I have connected it with a optical cable .. Is this the same way to use the dac out or I must connect with the USB?


----------



## AxelCloris

No need for USB, just run DAC Out to the A5+'s input. You can use the 3.5mm or stereo RCA, whichever is most convenient.


----------



## TheSpur22

Hello all, I've been a long time lurker on this thread and have been rocking a pair of PC360's and an Astro Mixamp 5.8 since early 2012, thanks to the recommendations here. I want to take my audio experience for gaming a step further and was planning on picking up the AKG K7xx's but I have become intrigued by the Sennheiser HD58x, mainly do to how well the PC360's fit my large melon. How do these compare as far as sound stage and pinpointing enemy locations? I mostly play Siege on PS4 for reference...

Thanks in advance


----------



## PurpleAngel

TheSpur22 said:


> Hello all, I've been a long time lurker on this thread and have been rocking a pair of PC360's and an Astro Mixamp 5.8 since early 2012, thanks to the recommendations here. I want to take my audio experience for gaming a step further and was planning on picking up the AKG K7xx's but I have become intrigued by the Sennheiser HD58x, mainly do to how well the PC360's fit my large melon. How do these compare as far as sound stage and pinpointing enemy locations? I mostly play Siege on PS4 for reference...
> Thanks in advance


I got the HD58X a few weeks back and I give it two thumbs up (audio quality), they are a little tight on the head, but that seems to be a problem that can be fixed.
i'm not into FPS gaming, so can't say on surround sound, but they do sound nice


----------



## PurpleAngel

Oldboy1987 said:


> Hi@all, I need your help please.
> I have the Audio GD 11.28 for my Ps4 and Xbox (Headphones) but I will buy the active Speakers Audioengine A5+. My Question is, can I connect these Speakers+Amp with my Consoles? And can you say me please, how can I do that
> 
> Thank you very much!
> Sorry, my English is very bad


Connect the Audio Engine A5+ to the line-output (RCA jacks) on the A5+

Do you set your gaming consoles to 2.0 audio output, when they are connect (using optical) to the NFB-11.28?


----------



## headphonesonly (Sep 20, 2018)

TheSpur22 said:


> Hello all, I've been a long time lurker on this thread and have been rocking a pair of PC360's and an Astro Mixamp 5.8 since early 2012, thanks to the recommendations here. I want to take my audio experience for gaming a step further and was planning on picking up the AKG K7xx's but I have become intrigued by the Sennheiser HD58x, mainly do to how well the PC360's fit my large melon. How do these compare as far as sound stage and pinpointing enemy locations? I mostly play Siege on PS4 for reference...
> 
> Thanks in advance


I don’t have the pc360 to compare with my 58x but i do have the 579 which I assume would be very similar.

Both have good soundstage. 579 are slightly wider but the 58x have better imaging. And having good imaging is more important than just having a wide soundstage especially if you’re trying to be competitive.

As far as sound quality, the 58X sound the best. In fact the 58X sounds very similar to the 660s which are $500.

I play mainly fps with my 58x.


----------



## mindbomb

I've recently been doing some testing of windows sonic for headphones and dolby atmos for headphones (with hesuvi), giving them each a couple of days. I never really fully got into windows sonic for headphone, idk if there was some bug or if I needed to give it even more time or if it just isn't that good. Atmos had distinct directions, but no real out of head effect at all. I felt it did have no perceivable amount of added reverb, so if that is your main gripe with VSS, then there is the dsp for you. It was an interesting experience. I figure I'll be yo-yoing back and forth between atmos for headphone and dolby headphone for a while due to indecisiveness.


----------



## TheSpur22

headphonesonly said:


> I don’t have the pc360 to compare with my 58x but i do have the 579 which I assume would be very similar.
> 
> Both have good soundstage. 579 are slightly wider but the 58x have better imaging. And having good imaging is more important than just having a wide soundstage especially if you’re trying to be competitive.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'm assuming I'm going to need a little more power to drive those. Being able to adjust teammates chat volume is very important and is why I love my Mixamp 5.8. Would the Schiit Magni plus Mixamp work well here or would the X7 and BT-W2 work better?


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> I've recently been doing some testing of windows sonic for headphones and dolby atmos for headphones (with hesuvi), giving them each a couple of days. I never really fully got into windows sonic for headphone, idk if there was some bug or if I needed to give it even more time or if it just isn't that good. Atmos had distinct directions, but no real out of head effect at all. I felt it did have no perceivable amount of added reverb, so if that is your main gripe with VSS, then there is the dsp for you. It was an interesting experience. I figure I'll be yo-yoing back and forth between atmos for headphone and dolby headphone for a while due to indecisiveness.



Same here for Atmos. Audio quality was good, but sounds behind me sounded like they were right behind the back of my neck. There was one cool moment that sounded like something was actually above me but I was never able to recreate it so I passed it off as a fluke.


----------



## PurpleAngel

TheSpur22 said:


> Thanks, I'm assuming I'm going to need a little more power to drive those. Being able to adjust teammates chat volume is very important and is why I love my Mixamp 5.8. Would the Schiit Magni plus Mixamp work well here or would the X7 and BT-W2 work better?


I would say to just daisy chain an add-on headphone amplifier (Schiit magni 3) to the headphone jack on the Mix-amp.
I would assume the Creative X7 has a lot of features you have no use for.


----------



## headphonesonly

TheSpur22 said:


> Thanks, I'm assuming I'm going to need a little more power to drive those. Being able to adjust teammates chat volume is very important and is why I love my Mixamp 5.8. Would the Schiit Magni plus Mixamp work well here or would the X7 and BT-W2 work better?


I would pair the magni up with the mixamp.


----------



## iaTa

mindbomb said:


> I've recently been doing some testing of windows sonic for headphones and dolby atmos for headphones (with hesuvi), giving them each a couple of days. I never really fully got into windows sonic for headphone, idk if there was some bug or if I needed to give it even more time or if it just isn't that good. Atmos had distinct directions, but no real out of head effect at all. I felt it did have no perceivable amount of added reverb, so if that is your main gripe with VSS, then there is the dsp for you. It was an interesting experience. I figure I'll be yo-yoing back and forth between atmos for headphone and dolby headphone for a while due to indecisiveness.



Dolby Home Theatre v4 in HeSuVi is my preferred choice. Audio seems full, not harsh like some and has superb virtualisation.


----------



## themrmikemcd (Sep 21, 2018)

Hey guys and gals. Thought this might be a good place to ask. Do you think the original Phillips  SHP9500s will eventually go for a higher price now that they don't make them that way anymore? Also Do you think the pink and white edition Hyper x Clouds 2 with box and all accessories will ever be considered a collector's item due to them not making that color anymore? Ive checked everywhere and haven't seen any pink and white ones for sale, not even used ones. I just wonder if I should hold onto these for a while to let them become more valuable or if I'm wasting my time holding on to them. I want to sell a bunch of older headphones to buy 1 pair of really nice ones but if they might become worth more later, I don't want to jump the gun and start selling them before there is demand. Thoughts?


----------



## TeeReQs

I don't know about the HyperX, but SHP9500s are definitely selling for more than they did new on eBay. Not like you're going to make a ton off selling them though..


----------



## mindbomb

illram said:


> Same here for Atmos. Audio quality was good, but sounds behind me sounded like they were right behind the back of my neck. There was one cool moment that sounded like something was actually above me but I was never able to recreate it so I passed it off as a fluke.



The legit dolby atmos for headphones version supports up and down channels, so if you have a compatible application, like battlefield one set to atmos in combination with windows app, or overwatch set to dolby atmos for headphone, it should be in there. The hesuvi version is just 7.1 though, with no up and down channels, but it works with pretty much everything. I think the issue with the height channels is that you just aren't exposed to stuff above you that much in general, so it's harder to train your brain to recognize those cues well.



iaTa said:


> Dolby Home Theatre v4 in HeSuVi is my preferred choice. Audio seems full, not harsh like some and has superb virtualisation.



I tried that before too and it seemed like one of the good ones. I have very good results with dolby headphone dh1 though (everything sounds like it's coming from outside of the headphones), and that might be just due to years of using it or maybe I'm lucky or it's underrated.


----------



## illram

I was using the real Atmos, but on Xbox. I'm never sure the game I am playing actually has an Atmos mix or not.


----------



## shuto77

I picked up the G6 this week. This will be my first Creative Device since I sold my X7 about 18 months ago.

It's a very quirky piece of kit. No matter what I do  I can't get the device to accept an optical signal, neither from the PS4 or my Samsung TV. The USB input is plug and play, and works great. It seems to only be 2.0, as has been discussed.

Am I missing some configuration in the app?


----------



## illram

I get 7.1 via USB and optical works out of the box. Unless your optical plug is defective or maybe not shoved all the way in (I've done that before with these optical/lineout connectors) you may have a defective unit.


----------



## shuto77

illram said:


> I get 7.1 via USB and optical works out of the box. Unless your optical plug is defective or maybe not shoved all the way in (I've done that before with these optical/lineout connectors) you may have a defective unit.



You get 7.1 over usb on ps4?

I've tried multiple optical cables.


----------



## illram

shuto77 said:


> You get 7.1 over usb on ps4?
> 
> I've tried multiple optical cables.


Sorry I thought you meant USB generally. No you're right via USB on consoles, no surround. But I do get 5.1 via optical on my Xbox. And 7.1 on my PC.


----------



## headphonesonly

shuto77 said:


> You get 7.1 over usb on ps4?
> 
> I've tried multiple optical cables.





shuto77 said:


> You get 7.1 over usb on ps4?
> 
> I've tried multiple optical cables.


ps4 can’t output 7.1 through usb, only 2.0
However you can use the optical port to get 5.1.


----------



## shuto77

headphonesonly said:


> ps4 can’t output 7.1 through usb, only 2.0
> However you can use the optical port to get 5.1.




Yes, I'm aware. I just can't get an optical signal to the PS4 or my TV.


----------



## illram

SPDIF in isn't muted in the mixer is it?


----------



## silverthornne

shuto77 said:


> I picked up the G6 this week. This will be my first Creative Device since I sold my X7 about 18 months ago.
> 
> It's a very quirky piece of kit. No matter what I do  I can't get the device to accept an optical signal, neither from the PS4 or my Samsung TV. The USB input is plug and play, and works great. It seems to only be 2.0, as has been discussed.
> 
> Am I missing some configuration in the app?



If it's like the E5, you need to open the app and configure that you're using the line in as SPDIF in.


----------



## themrmikemcd

I have $300 and want to buy headphones for fun immersive PS4 console gaming. (I dont play FSP online but will play campaign mode so would still be nice to have some fun wizzing bullet sounds while playing)  and for listening to rock music ( Skillet, Shinedown, old school metallica, ect..) I have a portable fio e12 amp and an astro mix amp for gaming. I perfer open back but am open to closed back.

 I was looking at Phillips Fidelio x2s but just wonder if something else in that price range may be better for the price.I like a nice explosion for games but also would like to be able to hear the finer details and seperation of instruments with music. Any  suggestions?


----------



## Azurik

themrmikemcd said:


> I have $300 and want to buy headphones for fun immersive PS4 console gaming. (I dont play FSP online but will play campaign mode so would still be nice to have some fun wizzing bullet sounds while playing)  and for listening to rock music ( Skillet, Shinedown, old school metallica, ect..) I have a portable fio e12 amp and an astro mix amp for gaming. I perfer open back but am open to closed back.
> 
> I was looking at Phillips Fidelio x2s but just wonder if something else in that price range may be better for the price.I like a nice explosion for games but also would like to be able to hear the finer details and seperation of instruments with music. Any  suggestions?



All depends if you are planning to run your headphones directly from the controller or if you have an external sound card such as mixamp, sound blaster, dac/ amp etc.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Azurik said:


> All depends if you are planning to run your headphones directly from the controller or if you have an external sound card such as mixamp, sound blaster, dac/ amp etc.



They have a mixamp from looking at their post


----------



## Azurik

WhiteHartMart said:


> They have a mixamp from looking at their post


That is what happens when you look but don’t see 

In that case, can’t go wrong with the hd59x series or the fidelio x2


----------



## themrmikemcd

Haha no worries. We all do it once in a while lol. Yea i have the mixamp and the fio e12 amp. Also have the lgg7 phone that has a pretty sweet dac in it too. Ive had my heart set on the X2s but then started watching stuff on HE 400s and Planar headphones. 

I just didn't want to limit myself to the one I think I want if others with way more knowledge than me can help stop me from making an expensive mistake. Ha.  Ive had the 598s and didnt feel the bass was loud or strong enough for me. Not that I want to have my head vibrate, but would like as nice of a mix of good bass, highs and mids for music and something fun for casual immersion gaming for the $300 price tag if that makes sense? Also the DT990 were too bright for me if that helps.


----------



## illram

It's happening....

https://sg.creative.com/sxfi-draw/


----------



## kellte2

illram said:


> It's happening....
> 
> https://sg.creative.com/sxfi-draw/




So is this going to be the $150 dongle that’s discussed elsewhere?


----------



## illram (Sep 23, 2018)

kellte2 said:


> So is this going to be the $150 dongle that’s discussed elsewhere?


I hope so!

Edit: you can buy it now if you live in Singapore. Won't be available internationally until November.

https://www.sxfi.com/tech/

https://www.sxfi.com/amp/

More on the amp, specifically. No console support as it's only USB C. Sort of suspected that given it was a little tiny dongle. (It lists PS4 but as we know PS4 is stereo only via USB.) Up to 7.1 on PC.

No channels over 8 and no Dolby decoding means this is not a Smyth Realiser killer but that was probably a pipedream anyway. PCM multi channel sort of limits this device's usefulness even just for media. Don't almost all streaming services use some sort of Dolby or DTS encoding for surround?

Creative always seems to limit their products in head scratching ways. We need an X7 or G6 type product with this new chip in it...


----------



## PurpleAngel

themrmikemcd said:


> I have $300 and want to buy headphones for fun immersive PS4 console gaming. (I don't play FSP online but will play campaign mode so would still be nice to have some fun wizzing bullet sounds while playing)  and for listening to rock music ( Skillet, Shinedown, old school metallica, ect..) I have a portable FiiO E12 amp and an Astro Mix amp for gaming. I prefer open back but am open to closed back.
> 
> I was looking at Phillips Fidelio x2s but just wonder if something else in that price range may be better for the price.I like a nice explosion for games but also would like to be able to hear the finer details and separation of instruments with music. Any  suggestions?



Get in on the Massdrop (Sennheiser HD58X) headphones drop (when active).
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones

Massdrop (Fostex T-X0) offer great clarity.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-t-x0-planar-magnetic-headphones


----------



## headphonesonly

illram said:


> PCM multi channel sort of limits this device's usefulness even just for media. Don't almost all streaming services use some sort of Dolby or DTS encoding for surround?


The source will decode both Dolby/DTS HD bitstreams for you and send that already decoded 7.1 surround sound as multi channel pcm to a device the supports it.

However the source can’t decode something like dolby atmos. To enable dolby atmos the device has to decode a Dolby bitstream.


----------



## illram (Sep 23, 2018)

headphonesonly said:


> The source will decode both Dolby/DTS HD bitstreams for you and send that already decoded 7.1 surround sound as multi channel pcm to a device the supports it.
> 
> However the source can’t decode something like dolby atmos. To enable dolby atmos the device has to decode a Dolby bitstream.


Makes sense, thanks. 

Still a cool little device if the ear/face personalization actually works. I'd love to have sophisticated headphone surround become mainstream.


----------



## SecrtAgentMan

Looking for a recommendation on a pair of gaming headphones, my options are the HD 6XX, HE-4XX, K7XX, or HD 58X, all from Massdrop.

Primarily looking for something that can be used competitively and focused on hearing/positioning enemies and distancing gunshots. Games mainly played are PUBG, Halo, CoD, GoW but also some single player games. Looking for a bit of bass also to "feel" explosions and things of that nature.

If anybody has tried the ones above and can give some tips on which one is better I'd definitely appreciate it. I've heard that the HE-4XX is actually really good for competitive gaming but just wanted to get opinions from other people.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My pick would be the K7XX from all of those. Assuming you have at least some decent amplification.

You can never go wrong with the K7XX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can anyone with a G6 confirm something for me? SBX surround when connecting a headphone directly to the G6 only works when you set the "apply headphone virtualization" to headphone, and not line and optical out, in the software, under setup.

If this is true, we may have a problem, because EVERYTIME you turn the G6 on, you have to manually go into the software and change this to headphone. EVERYTIME. It doesn't save that setting.

IIRC, I was playing Destiny 2 the other day and wondering why my surround wasn't sounding right. I then noticed it was on line and optical out. I switched to headphone, and it worked like expected.

I'm gonna get confirmation by Creative, because this isn't something we should have to deal with, especially those who don't plan on attaching external devices to the G6, and may not have easy access to a PC and the software to toggle this EVERYTIME you turn the G6 on.


----------



## PurpleAngel

SecrtAgentMan said:


> Looking for a recommendation on a pair of gaming headphones, my options are the HD 6XX, HE-4XX, K7XX, or HD 58X, all from Massdrop.
> Primarily looking for something that can be used competitively and focused on hearing/positioning enemies and distancing gunshots. Games mainly played are PUBG, Halo, CoD, GoW but also some single player games. Looking for a bit of bass also to "feel" explosions and things of that nature.
> If anybody has tried the ones above and can give some tips on which one is better I'd definitely appreciate it. I've heard that the HE-4XX is actually really good for competitive gaming but just wanted to get opinions from other people.


I do like the sound quality of my HD58X, but have not tried any surround sound with it.....yet.
As second choice, I might got for the HE-4XX.


----------



## headphonesonly (Sep 24, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Can anyone with a G6 confirm something for me? SBX surround when connecting a headphone directly to the G6 only works when you set the "apply headphone virtualization" to headphone, and not line and optical out, in the software, under setup.
> 
> If this is true, we may have a problem, because EVERYTIME you turn the G6 on, you have to manually go into the software and change this to headphone. EVERYTIME. It doesn't save that setting.
> 
> ...


Mine does this too.

You have to reset the device in the software setting in order to fix it.

Another method that worked for me was to unplug my headphones, select the headphones setting, than plug my headphones back in.

The same thing can happen vice versa.

I wish it can automatically adjust settings.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Can anyone with a G6 confirm something for me? SBX surround when connecting a headphone directly to the G6 only works when you set the "apply headphone virtualization" to headphone, and not line and optical out, in the software, under setup.
> 
> If this is true, we may have a problem, because EVERYTIME you turn the G6 on, you have to manually go into the software and change this to headphone. EVERYTIME. It doesn't save that setting.
> 
> ...



Uh oh  - glad I read that though as was going to buy one this week.  I'm using it on console though in the lounge and really don't want to have to connect to a computer everytime? Hopefully Creative can revise this in a software update??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok so I did what headphonesonly said and disconnected the headphones, changed the setting to headphones and plugged it back in. It seems to have fixed the issue though not sure if this is permanent.

I disconnected, rebooted the PC and the setting is still on headphone so perhaps it's all good now.

WhiteHart, I'm not sure if this is an actual issue or just a minor bug. I'll update as time progresses and see if the problem come back.


----------



## Lay. (Sep 24, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Can anyone with a G6 confirm something for me? SBX surround when connecting a headphone directly to the G6 only works when you set the "apply headphone virtualization" to headphone, and not line and optical out, in the software, under setup.
> 
> If this is true, we may have a problem, because EVERYTIME you turn the G6 on, you have to manually go into the software and change this to headphone. EVERYTIME. It doesn't save that setting.
> 
> ...




The software seems to be a bit buggy when changing settings and trying to get them stay after the change. I use it with PS4 Pro.

I had to reset the device and double/triple check the settings by unplugging the device and see that the settings are the way I want. It will work and stay with both (headphone out virtualization or line out virtualization) setting once successfully saved.

First I was using it straight from the headphone out. Now I'm using it from the optical out to the Sennheiser HDV820 and HD800S. I don't even have to touch or see the device anymore so everything is good. If only there would be a way to change the game/party chat balance, it would be perfect. Now I just have to adjust the game volume in every game to get the balance right. The PS4 party chat balance adjustment is grayed out when G6 is connected.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does the line out virtualization stay selected once you put it in or does it revert back to headphones after a restart? It goes back to headphones to me everytime like it starts with speaker settings every time. So what I do once my PC is booted up:

set to headphone mode, go to other settings, set virtualization to line out. Done. Annoying.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For me it was the opposite. Defaulted to line out/optical on boot.

They really should've just done like the X7 software where you check the box that states to send virtualization to line out/optical out. Automatically changing this on the G6 is impractical.

Things need toggles, not auto changes. Things that seem to be for convenience on paper end up being hassles in the end.

I will absolutely bring this up to them.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yes, please do. I want the settings to stay and lock FOREVER.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

While we get to the bottom of the G6 software, I don't suppose anyone has managed to try the now stand alone Steelseries GameDAC? As all settings are controlled on the device itself, it would be better for my console focused needs.  problem is, I wasn't overly keen on the audio quality when it was packaged with their own headphones - wondered if now being able to use your own set of headphones would improve things?


----------



## Fotopaul

The bad thing about the G6 is the software/drivers, the good thing is that it's the software/drivers..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 24, 2018)

Someone is saying that they can't change the chat balance on the G6 relative to game audio on the ps4?

Isn't that related to the sidetone function on the G6 itself (by pressing in the volume knob, the light turns red, and it constrols sidetone volume)? I know what sidetone is, but perhaps the louder the sidetone, the louder your voice is? The Mobius strangely has that issue, where they're tied together. The louder you hear your own voice, the louder it is to everyone is as well.

In any case, I know there is no setting on ps4 to change mic volume when the X6 is connected via usb, but there IS a way to change mic volume on the g6 software itself. It's buried  in the bottom under setup, and then the Mixer sub section, and press the gear in "External Mic".

Or is the problem something else?


----------



## rjjasick

Massdrop is dropping Mr Speaker Ether CXs tomorrow. I currently game on either Phillips X1 or M1060 primarily via Xbox with MixAmpTR or ATH-AD700x for competitive.  I do have an O2/ODAC also. Would the Ethers be a worthwhile pickup and retire the others?


----------



## HairyHook

rjjasick said:


> Massdrop is dropping Mr Speaker Ether CXs tomorrow. I currently game on either Phillips X1 or M1060 primarily via Xbox with MixAmpTR or ATH-AD700x for competitive.  I do have an O2/ODAC also. Would the Ethers be a worthwhile pickup and retire the others?


I haven't listened to the Ether CXs, but they are closed back HPs. Everything you currently own is open back. I would expect soundstage to be smaller but again, haven't tried them. I personally need to be aware of my surroundings.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone get popping when set to 32 bit on the G6? Either my USB ports are that awful, or something else is happening. I set it to 24 bit and I don't get that anymore.

Mind you, this isn't limited to the G6. I used to have the same issue with Audio GD gear when running too high a bitrate.

I'll hgave to do more testing, as my USB ports DO have some problems, so I can't for sure blame the G6 here.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone get popping when set to 32 bit on the G6? Either my USB ports are that awful, or something else is happening. I set it to 24 bit and I don't get that anymore.
> Mind you, this isn't limited to the G6. I used to have the same issue with Audio GD gear when running too high a bitrate.
> I'll have to do more testing, as my USB ports DO have some problems, so I can't for sure blame the G6 here.


Why even set the bit rate to 32-bit?
Chances are most audio you are going to send thru the G6 will be 16-bit.


----------



## headphonesonly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone get popping when set to 32 bit on the G6? Either my USB ports are that awful, or something else is happening. I set it to 24 bit and I don't get that anymore.
> 
> Mind you, this isn't limited to the G6. I used to have the same issue with Audio GD gear when running too high a bitrate.
> 
> I'll hgave to do more testing, as my USB ports DO have some problems, so I can't for sure blame the G6 here.


No matter what any device supports, I always set ist to 24/96. There’s no point on going higher unless you’re a professional music producer.

Tbh I can’t hear the difference between 16/48 to 24/96. Im not really a serious music listener. Im just trying to enjoy it the best that I can.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 24, 2018)

I think it's oversampling. I don't know the science. But setting to 16 bit and lowering volume will cause bit loss and theoretically sq loss.

I've always used 24/96. It's always worked fine for me.


----------



## Lay. (Sep 25, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Someone is saying that they can't change the chat balance on the G6 relative to game audio on the ps4?
> 
> Isn't that related to the sidetone function on the G6 itself (by pressing in the volume knob, the light turns red, and it constrols sidetone volume)? I know what sidetone is, but perhaps the louder the sidetone, the louder your voice is? The Mobius strangely has that issue, where they're tied together. The louder you hear your own voice, the louder it is to everyone is as well.
> 
> ...



With sidetone control I can change my mic and sidetone volume (and mute the sidetone), but I can't change how loud I can hear my friends in PS4 party chat.

You can change your mic volume in the PS4 settings also, but I'm just missing the control to change how loud you can hear your friends, like the game/chat balance knob in MixAmp.

If someone can figure out how to do this with G6 that woud be great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I mean, that sounds like what you can do under the setup in the software. You would likely have to connect to a PC to adjust the setting though.

Sup Yethal, I see you lurking.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Sep 25, 2018)

I get a artefact from time to time when watching movies or during games. Like a mini fraction of distortion. I don't know how to describe it. Using optical out to the DAC.
I'm happy with the G6's SBX but that's a showstopper. I suspected USB issues (latency) but it doesn't matter if it's under very heavy gaming load or just a movie.

I don't get any artefact when doing DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO gaming via the DAC. Must be the G6.

I will try switching the USB ports later.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> With sidetone control I can change my mic and sidetone volume (and mute the sidetone), but I can't change how loud I can hear my friends in PS4 party chat.
> 
> You can change your mic volume in the PS4 settings also, but I'm just missing the control to change how loud you can hear your friends, like the game/chat balance knob in MixAmp.
> 
> If someone can figure out how to do this with G6 that woud be great.



If you have the G6 connected via USB and optical I’m pretty sure you’d be able to use the PS4 Sound menu to change the Party Chat/Game balance??


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone get popping when set to 32 bit on the G6? Either my USB ports are that awful, or something else is happening. I set it to 24 bit and I don't get that anymore.
> 
> Mind you, this isn't limited to the G6. I used to have the same issue with Audio GD gear when running too high a bitrate.
> 
> I'll hgave to do more testing, as my USB ports DO have some problems, so I can't for sure blame the G6 here.



I got popping (vinyl like) using the same settings you describe. Fixed it by changing USB port.


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> If you have the G6 connected via USB and optical I’m pretty sure you’d be able to use the PS4 Sound menu to change the Party Chat/Game balance??



Unfortunately it is grayed out when G6 is connected.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> Unfortunately it is grayed out when G6 is connected.



Is ‘Output to Headphone’ setting set to ‘Chat Audio’ rather than ‘All Audio’ ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 25, 2018)

I mentioned before, that specific setting makes or breaks SBX surround, so if you want SBX on PS4, make sure you're not sending all audio to the G6's USB. Only chat audio.

Fege,  like whomever mentioned, unplug your headphone, change to line out/optical, then plug in your headphone. It saves the setting. I know you're not connecting a headphone directly to the G6, but do it at least for this so you don't constantly have to switch. At least that's what worked for me.

As for random pops, I haven't had any since changing to 24 bit/96khz. 32bit just has too many pops. I looked at Amazon and it looks like I'm not the only one that fixed the popping by going to 24 bit.

I will mention this on my next email to Creative. I sent some feedback but I didn't mention this.

I see you Raband.


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> Is ‘Output to Headphone’ setting set to ‘Chat Audio’ rather than ‘All Audio’ ?



Primary sound output ‘Digital Out’ (Optical) with a format of ‘Dolby Digital 5.1ch,’ under Audio Format - ‘Bitstream’ (Dolby)

Audio Devices --> Output to headphones’ is on ‘Chat.’

These are my settings.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting. I need to try that. Will report if it saves the headphones setting forever.

Have the windows default setting, never changed the bit depth. Will try another USB port. If this fails too I'm going all in on a dedicated pcie 4x usb card with multiple controllers.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> Primary sound output ‘Digital Out’ (Optical) with a format of ‘Dolby Digital 5.1ch,’ under Audio Format - ‘Bitstream’ (Dolby)
> 
> Audio Devices --> Output to headphones’ is on ‘Chat.’
> 
> These are my settings.



That seems ok from my understanding. Don’t mean to state the obvious - you are in a party when checking the setting??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 25, 2018)

I had a headache today so my effort to write the G6 review was like 2%, but I feel a little better now, and I'm making progress. I hope to get most of it written today.

Timespinner comes out today! I love my Metroidvanias <3



Also on PC.


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> That seems ok from my understanding. Don’t mean to state the obvious - you are in a party when checking the setting??



Yep. I was in the party chat while trying to change the Game/Chat balance.  If I remember correctly, you can also access the option through party chat.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> Yep. I was in the party chat while trying to change the Game/Chat balance.  If I remember correctly, you can also access the option through party chat.



Sorry - I’m all out of ideas then


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> Sorry - I’m all out of ideas then



I'm out of ideas also. Thanks for trying to help though. I might try to play with the settings and see what makes the PS4 Audio mix (game/chat) option go grayed out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 25, 2018)

Ok, so I noticed that if you set the G6 to two speakers, you can get the bitrate all the way to 32bit/384khz. I don't get the random popping in this mode. However if you set to 5.1 or 7.1, you can only go up to 32bit/96khz, which is where I was getting popping until I went down to 24/96.

You can only change the bitrate in the Windows sound panel, not the G6 software, though you can configure the speaker number on the G6 software, you don't need to go to configure speakers on Windows sound panel. Also if you have it set to 32bit/384, you can't change to 7.1 in Windows, BUT if you change to 7.1 on the G6 software, it will work BUT will change the bit rate to 32/96. Changing back to two speakers will still keep it at 32/96. Basically if you want the highest bitrate and sampling rate, you must either leave it in two channel and 32/384, or constantly go back to sound panel and chsnge it to 32/384 if you ever change the speakers to 7.1 for SBX gaming.

My recommendation? Just set it to 24/96 and forget about 32bit mode.

The more you know...

Oh god, why did Cross Code release a few days ago? I'm drowning in games I need to play. What a time to be alive.


----------



## hi2chris

I purchased one of the original numberd AKG 7XX back when they had that debacle around balanced drivers, reading other people comments I decided to live with it which I regret because I have barley used them due to imbalance. So now I’m looking to upgrade and looking for any suggestions. These are primarily for PS4 gaming with the X7.

Any guidence would be great thank you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 25, 2018)

Can ANYONE tell me the difference between the Smart Volume option and Dolby Audio option in the G6 software? Aren't they both essentially the same damn thing (dynamic range control), with Dolby Audio needing Dolby to decode but doing the same thing as Smart Volume? It's these types of redundancies that I just don't understand.

Essentially (and I'm assuming) both are there to minimize volume swings in specific frequencies. This is the type of thing I hate to write about in reviews, because I just don't quite understand.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Smart Volume changes volume dynamically/live so you don't have to dial like a DJ to make it quiter or louder. I don't know who does that tbh. 

Dolby dynamic range is a fixed position where a compressor reduces the overall dynamic range of the AC3 signal according to your liking. Good for those guys who fear getting deaf because the voices are so quiet and the explosions so loud.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That still sounds like foreign language to me, hahaha. The Dolby part. Ah well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-volume-tech-paper.pdf

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-digital.pdf

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/all-about-audio-metadata.pdf

enjoy, my friend


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 25, 2018)

Ok that first linbk helped me to understand it a bit better. So it's like a better 'smart volume'. So I wasn't wrong in that aspect, though it's much more than that. Pretty interesting technology. Not sure I'd use it, as it's another added process to the sound. My audiophile part of me is wary about doing anything other than adding virtual surround when gaming, though it may be worth using late at night when 'm watching TV shows and put less stock in final sound quality.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyone know what the Sign In function does in the software? I know it's a stupid question to ask, but it REFUSES to let me register. It just keeps saying registration failed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

hi2chris said:


> I purchased one of the original numberd AKG 7XX back when they had that debacle around balanced drivers, reading other people comments I decided to live with it which I regret because I have barley used them due to imbalance. So now I’m looking to upgrade and looking for any suggestions. These are primarily for PS4 gaming with the X7.
> Any guidence would be great thank you.


Budget?
Do you want an in your face sound?
or better at surround sound? 
Want a lot of bass?

If you like clarity, Beyerdynamic T90, 
Here is a used pair sold by Beyerdynamic USA.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/beyerdynam...064433&hash=item1a5d3d54bf:g:yMYAAOSwEVpbjuL6


----------



## headphonesonly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone know what the Sign In function does in the software? I know it's a stupid question to ask, but it REFUSES to let me register. It just keeps saying registration failed.


It allows you to register your device.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Sep 25, 2018)

The workaround didn't work. Mine neither as connecting a headphone mutes the optical out. 

MLE, please tell Creative to make the G6 save the headphone setting even when no headphone is plugged in so the relais doesn't switch back to speaker.


----------



## Yethal

Mad why do you care so much about virtual surround if all you're excited about are 2D games?


----------



## themrmikemcd

PurpleAngel said:


> Get in on the Massdrop (Sennheiser HD58X) headphones drop (when active).
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones
> 
> Massdrop (Fostex T-X0) offer great clarity.
> https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-fostex-t-x0-planar-magnetic-headphones


Thanks!! Ill check um out!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 26, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Mad why do you care so much about virtual surround if all you're excited about are 2D games?


Hahaha. You're so right!

To  be fair, aside from reviewing, I hardly use headphones nowadays. When I do it's usually my PortaPro wireless, lol. I actually DON'T care much about virtual surround gaming these days. I mean, for the sake of you guys, and for people who do use headphones regularly, I hold a lot of importance for virtual surround gaming. So I approach these reviews and whatnot as if I'm still heavily into gaming with headphones. Dont get me wrong, if I use my big cans, I still very much only use them with virtual surround. But most of the time, I'm just lazy and don;'t wanna be tethered to anything and like to lay down. That's where my Portapro wireless comes in. Especially the fact I don't use them with their headband but with the ksc75 clips attached instead. It's so much freedom.

If there was a Koss Portapro wireless with virtual surround, believe me, I'd still be very invested. 

Fege, sorry man. I'll definitely relay to them that they NEED settings to be locked as soon as you set them.


----------



## HoHGamer

First i would like to say thank you for the absolutely amazing amount of reviews, research and time that went into this post.

I have a Xbox One, a Astro A40 TR headset+MixAmp M80 and have spent a lot of time researching potential amps lately. 

The mixamp M80 just isn't enough for me, being as i am hard of hearing. Music is fine with it, but when it comes to the highs, footsteps, and subtle gaming changing stealth listening it falls short.
Chat is also leaving something to be desired. It is there, i can hear it, but not quite loud, clear and crisp enough to understand at times. Of course that could be something on the persons microphone who is speaking so i cant completely fault the mixamp M80 for that.

I am considering the new Sound BlasterX G6 as it does fall within my budget(up to $150 range) and the rated decibel levels are loud enough for my hearing level.

My concern is while reviewing the specifications for the Xbox One is it says that "Voice communications not supported"

I assume this means for example that gaming chat with your party in say Battlefield V or BO4 is not possible? 

And if not, how might one be able to rig this up so that chat is possible, perhaps with a additional external microphone attached to the controller?

Any clarification, alternate amp choices and advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Yethal

HoHGamer said:


> First i would like to say thank you for the absolutely amazing amount of reviews, research and time that went into this post.
> 
> I have a Xbox One, a Astro A40 TR headset+MixAmp M80 and have spent a lot of time researching potential amps lately.
> 
> ...


Basically, if you're on Xbox then you're screwed when it comes to chat audio. I believe only Mixamp TR natively supports usb for chat, all other devices require a splitter to be plugged into the controller. if you have a PC nearby, use the Xbox app for chat, otherwise, buy a 3.5mm splitter plug it into the controller and plug your microphone into that.


----------



## PurpleAngel

HoHGamer said:


> First i would like to say thank you for the absolutely amazing amount of reviews, research and time that went into this post.
> I have a Xbox One, a Astro A40 TR headset+MixAmp M80 and have spent a lot of time researching potential amps lately.
> The mix-amp M80 just isn't enough for me, being as i am hard of hearing. Music is fine with it, but when it comes to the highs, footsteps, and subtle gaming changing stealth listening it falls short.
> Chat is also leaving something to be desired. It is there, i can hear it, but not quite loud, clear and crisp enough to understand at times. Of course that could be something on the persons microphone who is speaking so i cant completely fault the mix-amp M80 for that.
> ...


If the Xbox does not support a voice communication feature, can't see how replacing the mix-amp would fix that issue.
But i would expect the Sound blaster X G6 to provide you with louder (and clearer) audio.


----------



## HoHGamer

Yethal said:


> Basically, if you're on Xbox then you're screwed when it comes to chat audio. I believe only Mixamp TR natively supports usb for chat, all other devices require a splitter to be plugged into the controller. if you have a PC nearby, use the Xbox app for chat, otherwise, buy a 3.5mm splitter plug it into the controller and plug your microphone into that.



I have a 3.5mm splitter i use for the PC that goes from a single 3.5 female 4 post jack and splits into 2 male 3 post jacks. One for headset, one for microphone.  Would that work?

I do indeed have a PC and i am curious about the Xbox app for chat. My headset is sooo much better and louder on PC compared to my current setup on Xbox one S. Other players are also to hear me through this app?




PurpleAngel said:


> If the Xbox does not support a voice communication feature, can't see how replacing the mix-amp would fix that issue.
> But i would expect the Sound blaster X G6 to provide you with louder (and clearer) audio.



Right, really seems absurd but hey, i suppose it comes with the territory when it comes to Xbox and microsoft. At some point i am going to have to give playstation a try. 
Some mixamps like the M80 and the mixamp TR pro will support chat functions no problem.  Unfortunately, from experience the M80 is lacking for me. 
I am not yet sure on the Astro TR pro mixamp as the decibel output is rated at 100 db. I am not sure how much better that is in comparison to 
the reported power output of the mixamp M80 which is 0.973 Vrms @ 1kHz. I do know the M80 is powered by the controller, so the decibel level cant really be driven all that much i would think.
If anyone knows the decibel output of the M80 i sure would like to know what it is for comparison purposes.


----------



## PurpleAngel

HoHGamer said:


> I have a 3.5mm splitter i use for the PC that goes from a single 3.5 female 4 post jack and splits into 2 male 3 post jacks. One for headset, one for microphone.  Would that work?
> I do indeed have a PC and i am curious about the Xbox app for chat. My headset is sooo much better and louder on PC compared to my current setup on Xbox one S. Other players are also to hear me through this app?
> Right, really seems absurd but hey, i suppose it comes with the territory when it comes to Xbox and microsoft. At some point i am going to have to give playstation a try.
> Some mixamps like the M80 and the mixamp TR pro will support chat functions no problem.  Unfortunately, from experience the M80 is lacking for me.
> ...


I've bought my nephews a Nintendo gaming console, two Xbox consoles, and last one was a PS4, all they use now is the PS4, they have not asked me to buy an Xbox game in years, just PS4 games.


----------



## iaTa

I just reserved my SXFI amp with the free Aurvana SE Super X-Fi Certified headphones here: https://superxfi.com/country-interest


----------



## silverthornne

Is there an advantage to using the Super XFi amp with a Sound Blaster X7 or an E5? I just don't understand how it's supposed to work yet. Does it fully replace those devices? If so, why did they even bother to release the G6?


----------



## headphonesonly

silverthornne said:


> Is there an advantage to using the Super XFi amp with a Sound Blaster X7 or an E5? I just don't understand how it's supposed to work yet. Does it fully replace those devices? If so, why did they even bother to release the G6?


it only has a usb input so it wont work in tandem with the x7 or other devices.


----------



## silverthornne

headphonesonly said:


> it only has a usb input so it wont work in tandem with the x7 or other devices.



Wouldn't the USB Host port take care of that?


----------



## headphonesonly (Sep 27, 2018)

silverthornne said:


> Wouldn't the USB Host port take care of that?


pretty sure that is supposed to be used for external usb mics. I don't think it can output VSS like the line/digital out can.

Can someone test this to conform.


----------



## PurpleAngel

silverthornne said:


> Is there an advantage to using the Super XFi amp with a Sound Blaster X7 or an E5? I just don't understand how it's supposed to work yet. Does it fully replace those devices? If so, why did they even bother to release the G6?



I would assume the Creative X7 does everything you need, so no need to use the Super X-Fi amplifier or E5.


----------



## Yethal

silverthornne said:


> Wouldn't the USB Host port take care of that?


USB Host port is for plugging in mobile devices such as smartphones. It doesn't accept digital microphones


----------



## silverthornne

Thanks for the help guys. Guess that means that I pass on the Super XFi.


----------



## Gladzilla

is the Sennheiser rs195 paired with a Soundblater x7 a good combo setup. using the x7 for virtual surround sound.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Gladzilla said:


> is the Sennheiser RS195 paired with a Sound Blaster X7 a good combo setup. using the X7 for virtual surround sound.


Why spend the cash for a wireless setup, when you can plug headphones directly into the X7?


----------



## raband

Gladzilla said:


> is the Sennheiser rs195 paired with a Soundblater x7 a good combo setup. using the x7 for virtual surround sound.



Will work fine.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Thought I'd give the Steelseries GameDac a 2nd chance so tried one again - 2 days later its boxed up and the return process started!

Just hated the DTX Surround on it - didn't sound natural at all, like the wrong elements of the sound effects were being enhanced (hard to explain).  I do like the little GameDac unit so convenience (particularly on PS4) but then when trying for game sound only on the Xbox, it didn't offer sound that was better than my Game Ones plugged into the Xbox controller - in fact, if anything, the pad was able to get more volume from the Sennheisers than the GameDac got from the packaged headphones.  Sennheisers sounded far more spacious and open too.

Those SuperX-Fi headphones have me interested for PS4 use now although I'm still keeping an eye on the G6 to see if Creative sort the settings saving first


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ok,

yesterday I had a bit of  time and thus I figured out how to save my settings until Creative updates the G6 properly. 
Reset the G6. Configure everything as you wish. Shutdown. Power up the PC again. 

Now in my case: power up the PC again, wait until the app is loaded. See the lit speaker icon in digust. Switch to headphone setting. Plug in the Grado Adapter. 
This way the G6 is always on headphone mode, also when connected to the PS4 and the PC is off (6G is connected to a Schiit Wyrd so I have independant power). 

Sometimes it turns off the optical signal again and only outputs to the headphone out. Then I have to repeat the latter steps again: Unplug, switch to headphone mode, replug.


----------



## Gladzilla

PurpleAngel said:


> Why spend the cash for a wireless setup, when you can plug headphones directly into the X7?



because my Father needs the advanced hearing features of the RS195. he uses ReSound hearing aides when working. going to put the RS195 on the flattest sound frequency so that the X7 can do its job.


----------



## HoHGamer

Gladzilla said:


> because my Father needs the advanced hearing features of the RS195. he uses ReSound hearing aides when working. going to put the RS195 on the flattest sound frequency so that the X7 can do its job.


I too wear resound aids, specifically the linx2 9's. Very good aids with a ton of features to adjust your mids, lows and highs. I prefer to go with the higher rated RIE as well to really bring out the power of these babys


----------



## matthewh133

Anyone here compared the Audeze Mobius to the Astro A50 wireless for gaming/movies?


----------



## Yethal

Gladzilla said:


> because my Father needs the advanced hearing features of the RS195. he uses ReSound hearing aides when working. going to put the RS195 on the flattest sound frequency so that the X7 can do its job.


If you're only going to use the X7 for its optical output then buy the much cheaper G6 instead.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Has anyone figured out the proper procedure to use the G6 with a PS4 and Xbox One and have the correct settings stick, etc? I want to make sure that I’m getting the correct surround working with my consoles and I know you guys were talking at one point about some bugs that would cause settings to get reset when using with a console.


----------



## MacedonianHero

matthewh133 said:


> Anyone here compared the Audeze Mobius to the Astro A50 wireless for gaming/movies?



There is NO comparison! The Mobius are leagues above them to my ears...not even neighbourhood, let alone ballpark.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 1, 2018)

Has anyone tested the new G6 updates on the Creative website that released a few days ago?

I haven't had time to use it this week, but I'll test it today and tomorrow. Hopefully the problems we have discussed have been fixed. edit: Reading the patch notes, looks like it's just to fix the 32bit popping/glitch noises.

http://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=1118&catName=Amplifiers&subCatID=1122&prodID=23239&prodName=Sound BlasterX G6




MacedonianHero said:


> There is NO comparison! The Mobius are leagues above them to my ears...not even neighbourhood, let alone ballpark.



I agree with this. I dunno how much the A50 has changed since I reviewed them a few years ago, but the Mobius is fantastic, and much more favorable to me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No changes, but it's only a newer driver.
The G6 just needs to save the headphone setting at all costs, even when no headphone is connected to the headphone port, simply because it allows headphone virtualization out of the LO/optical. Only logical to have this feature.


----------



## TheSpur22

Alright, I just pulled the trigger on the HD 58X and I've went down a rabbit hole on amps. I was all set on the Magni to go with my Mixamp 5.8 but the FiiO A3 has come to my attention and the cable set up for this looks a lot cleaner to me.
Are there any serious negatives to the Mixamp - FiiO A3 setup?


----------



## headphonesonly

TheSpur22 said:


> Alright, I just pulled the trigger on the HD 58X and I've went down a rabbit hole on amps. I was all set on the Magni to go with my Mixamp 5.8 but the FiiO A3 has come to my attention and the cable set up for this looks a lot cleaner to me.
> Are there any serious negatives to the Mixamp - FiiO A3 setup?


The only negative is that the background hiss will be ampified but other than that you should be good with the a3.


----------



## PurpleAngel

TheSpur22 said:


> Alright, I just pulled the trigger on the HD 58X and I've went down a rabbit hole on amps. I was all set on the Magni to go with my Mixamp 5.8 but the FiiO A3 has come to my attention and the cable set up for this looks a lot cleaner to me.
> Are there any serious negatives to the Mix-amp - FiiO A3 setup?


Nope.
I would suggest maxing out the volume controls on the source (gaming console or computer) and max out the volume controls on the Mix-amp.
To feed the strongest signal you can to the FiiO A3.


----------



## Cesarlo

Hi everyone, regarding the Creative G6:

I'm coming from the X7 and I do love the G6, but I want to make sure I've got all the settings correct, as the software is a little confusing in comparison to the X7.

Apologies if any of these questions are stupid but, for strictly PS4 use paired with Philips X2's...

'Apply Headphone Virtualization to' - should I select Line and Optical Out or Headphones? I'm almost certain it's the latter but want to double check.

Output Mode - Audio Effects, or SPDIF-Out Direct? 

I have 'Surround' set to Ultra Wide and Dolby set to Night.

I also have Crystalizer at 50 and Bass at 35.

Also, does the RGB lighting not work when connected to the PS4? It's always a solid red, but when hooked up to my laptop the RGB lighting works correctly.

I'd really appreciate any help or people sharing their settings. The X7 sounded perfect. Feel like I'm starting from scratch and want to make sure I'm using it to it's full potential.

Thanks!


----------



## TheSpur22

PurpleAngel said:


> Nope.
> I would suggest maxing out the volume controls on the source (gaming console or computer) and max out the volume controls on the Mix-amp.
> To feed the strongest signal you can to the FiiO A3.



Thanks, that was actually going to be my next question lol...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 2, 2018)

Fegefeuer said:


> No changes, but it's only a newer driver.
> The G6 just needs to save the headphone setting at all costs, even when no headphone is connected to the headphone port, simply because it allows headphone virtualization out of the LO/optical. Only logical to have this feature.


This is the response I got from the tech team.

*



			The G6 NEEDS to save whatever settings are changed.  "MLE, please tell Creative to make the G6 save the headphone setting even when no headphone is plugged in so the doesn't switch back to ." The G6 saves many settings but not all.
		
Click to expand...

*


> _
> The problem with this is there are users that want to have the hardware determine what is plugged in. So there are users that WANT the hardware to switch speakers versus headphones. That being said we'll study the possibility to include an overwrite function for user to decide if software should overwrite or follow hardware connection in a future software update._



I'm not sure that actually fixes our issues, but there you have it.


----------



## shuto77

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm pretty close to done on the rough draft of the G6 review. I'm just waiting to see if Creative will let me know about any potential solutions to the settings not saving for some people. I have
> 
> This is the response I got from the tech team.
> 
> ...



I wish the G6 had an app, and you could control all the software settings via Bluetooth like the X7. I know a Bluetooth adapter/antennae thingy would have added cost, but whatevs. Even though the app was buggy, it was nice to cycle around the different settings on the X7, and change them on-the-fly.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Just checking re the G6 settings issue - if I'm only ever connected to a PS4 or an Xbox One X and only ever use headphones, will this settings thing be a non-issue??


----------



## Fegefeuer

Thanks for the feedback, MLE. Yeah, for people who only use the optical/line out for their own DAC and Amp there needs to be a overwriting feature so no hardware switcheroos happen.

Anyone else who plugs his headphones into the G6 will not have this issue and be fine.


----------



## headphonesonly (Oct 3, 2018)

Cesarlo said:


> 'Apply Headphone Virtualization to' - should I select Line and Optical Out or Headphones? I'm almost certain it's the latter but want to double check.


If your headphones are plugged into the g6 make sure you select apply vss to headphones. If using a external amp then select apply vss to line/optical out.


Cesarlo said:


> Output Mode - Audio Effects, or SPDIF-Out Direct?


Audio Effects allows you to use the full features of the g6
Spdif out direct just means that no effects are being applied to the line out port.


Cesarlo said:


> I have 'Surround' set to Ultra Wide and Dolby set to Night.
> 
> I also have Crystalizer at 50 and Bass at 35.


Turn off Crystalizer and bass
Set dolby to full
Surround you can have set to whatever you want
These settings will give you the best sound quality and most accurate positional audio.


Cesarlo said:


> Also, does the RGB lighting not work when connected to the PS4? It's always a solid red, but when hooked up to my laptop the RGB lighting works correctly.


Full RGB capabilities only work on pc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2018)

*To my 'backers' (you know where: I have posted the nearly finished review of the G6 (rough draft), so check there.
*
_I'm more or less done with the G6 review. Just gotta clean it up and format it for posting on here, but I want to wait for Creative's response on the main issue at hand, before I post. I'll likely post it within the next few days._



I'm gonna do a little more testing to get a definitive answer on what works and what doesn't.


Ok so my next email guys which I am waiting for a response is below.



> can you let the tech team know that I'm not particularly talking about the G6 auto switching between headphone and speaker? That options has been around even with the X7, and it works well enough. I'm specifically talking about the Apply Headphone Virtualization settings, under setup. I'll attach an image.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cesarlo

headphonesonly said:


> If your headphones are plugged into the g6 make sure you select apply vss to headphones. If using a external amp then select apply vss to line/optical out.
> 
> Audio Effects allows you to use the full features of the g6
> Spdif out direct just means that no effects are being applied to the line out port.
> ...



Many thanks for all of your help, although I'm guilty of posting before reading. After I posted that I went back and read the last thirty pages or so. Apologies for getting ahead of myself.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful responses. I'll be definitely keeping an eye on this thread. The only thing that's missing for me now is the ability to adjust chat audio when in a party. I don't understand why the PS4 greys out the option when the G6 is connected.


----------



## Lay.

Cesarlo said:


> The only thing that's missing for me now is the ability to adjust chat audio when in a party. I don't understand why the PS4 greys out the option when the G6 is connected.



When you go to the "Output to headphone" -setting and select "Chat Audio" , it will gray out the ability to adjust game/chat balance from PS4. This is OK with the MixAmp since there is a knob to change it, but G6 does not have this option and it is kind of sad. I wish there will be at least a software option to change the balance....or even better... ability to select from the software if you like to use the gnob to control  sidetone or chat/game balance.


----------



## Cesarlo

Lay. said:


> When you go to the "Output to headphone" -setting and select "Chat Audio" , it will gray out the ability to adjust game/chat balance from PS4. This is OK with the MixAmp since there is a knob to change it, but G6 does not have this option and it is kind of sad. I wish there will be at least a software option to change the balance....or even better... ability to select from the software if you like to use the gnob to control  sidetone or chat/game balance.



Ah, I see.

I'm at work and can't test it, I'll have to have a look when I get home, but when the option is grayed out is it set at a default setting? Probably unlikely, but if I was to select "All Audio" and adjust it, when I then clicked back to "Chat Audio" would it remain at what I'd adjusted it to, or would it go back to the default setting and take no notice of it? 

Mad Lust Envy, would it be possible for you to raise it with Creative if you were ever to do an additional e-mail? Just seems bizarre to state that it supports chat audio on the PS4, but not give us the option to actually adjust it.


----------



## illram

I don't get the comment re: 7.1 not working on optical out to an amp with the G6? Why is that? Seems to work when I check the channels at this site (I haven't really tested on PC extensively other than basic functionality, mostly use this on console). I thought when virtualization is applied the G6 is simply sending out a processed 2 channel stream, which the optical can transmit fine.

https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html

5.1 and 7.1 both work, and I can hear the rear channels in the (more or less) proper locations. In Windows the configuration is also switching automatically when I change it in the G6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2018)

illram said:


> I don't get the comment re: 7.1 not working on optical out to an amp with the G6? Why is that? Seems to work when I check the channels at this site (I haven't really tested on PC extensively other than basic functionality, mostly use this on console). I thought when virtualization is applied the G6 is simply sending out a processed 2 channel stream, which the optical can transmit fine.
> 
> https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html
> 
> 5.1 and 7.1 both work, and I can hear the rear channels in the (more or less) proper locations. In Windows the configuration is also switching automatically when I change it in the G6.



I removed that comment. I rechecked and it seems to be fine.

I then checked everything and noticed it's because the surround option was set to Wide. To my ears, wide is utterly inferior to ultra wide it whatever the max setting is called. Since wide sounds so collapsed and small, I wasn't getting the positional cues I'm used to, so I thought this was why 7.1 through optical didn't sound right.

My mistake. Well not MY mistake, but the software again reverting to a setting I didn't even set.

This is actually quite frustrating, and I have contacted Creative about this as well. It seems they don't have an answer here, so it looks like they're gonna have to go deeper.

Having to check these settings every time I use the G6 is not something anyone should have to go through. I don't wanna publish a review until a definitive answer is given here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2018)

Is anyone other than me getting these issues where some settings aren't the same as when you last left them? I think at the momnent it's just me and Fege having this issue?



Cesarlo said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> I'm at work and can't test it, I'll have to have a look when I get home, but when the option is grayed out is it set at a default setting? Probably unlikely, but if I was to select "All Audio" and adjust it, when I then clicked back to "Chat Audio" would it remain at what I'd adjusted it to, or would it go back to the default setting and take no notice of it?
> 
> Mad Lust Envy, would it be possible for you to raise it with Creative if you were ever to do an additional e-mail? Just seems bizarre to state that it supports chat audio on the PS4, but not give us the option to actually adjust it.



I have quoted your message and sent to the Creative rep.


----------



## illram (Oct 3, 2018)

I notice things changing and there is no rhyme or reason to them, and I don't remember specifically the circumstances, so I haven't bothered contacting Creative as my bug reports wouldn't be too helpful. Things like surround changing to normal vs. ultra wide, profiles changing, settings within each profile changing for seemingly no reason, and 5.1 switching to 7.1 pretty frequently. I keep an amp plugged in all the time so luckily the lineout settings issue has not affected me, although the one time I did try headphone directly, I did notice that setting also changing.

They've got some work to do on the software, clearly.

If Creative looks at this thread I'd like them to explain why the heck their EQ functionality is so much worse than the X7 or even the E5. I mean audio quality wise. It really sounds like the EQ quality of the E3. (Which was bad, particularly the bass). Is this a software issue that can be fixed? This apparently uses the same DAC chip in the S8+ and Note 8 phones, which I can use an EQ on and it sounds fine....


----------



## Rozzko

Hi!
And what's about Sony paltinum headphones? I understand that it's not the best sounding headphones, but it has Sony 7.1 virtual sound for some games, does mad lust try Sony platinum in uncharted 4? I thinking of best virtual sound for my PS4. Thanks


----------



## mindbomb (Oct 4, 2018)

illram said:


> I don't get the comment re: 7.1 not working on optical out to an amp with the G6? Why is that? Seems to work when I check the channels at this site (I haven't really tested on PC extensively other than basic functionality, mostly use this on console). I thought when virtualization is applied the G6 is simply sending out a processed 2 channel stream, which the optical can transmit fine.
> 
> https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/multichannel.html
> 
> 5.1 and 7.1 both work, and I can hear the rear channels in the (more or less) proper locations. In Windows the configuration is also switching automatically when I change it in the G6.



I think we all assumed optical output from a console, where the console can only output 5.1 dolby digital.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 5, 2018)

I know setting it to 7.1 works fine if you're feeding the optical signal to another dac, but I'm sitting here testing the Tests between 7.1 and 5.1, and to my ears, I get better positional cues when I set it to 5.1. The 7.1 speaker rear speaker cues directly compared to the same speaker cue in 5.1 sounds too close and not as accurate in position.

So I still say that if you're feeding the G6 signal to another dac via the optical out, I would still recommend setting it to 5.1.

* Guys Creative is working on fixing the settings issues, and they also want to know what exactly is that you want them to do in terms if voice/game balance on things like the PS4. I don't have with a mic, so I'm not certain on what to tell them here. *


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, the rear cues of the 7.1 setup sound what I called slightly "phasey". It was way worse on the G5 where it would not only blend more but also sound like someone is eating the back of your head. The HesuVi "version" of 7.1 SBX does have better rear cues from memory. More distinct, less crosstalk. 

Yet right now, all I want is a firmware that doesn't autoswitch and stays in the headphone mode forever together and ever, forever and ever and eeever, like 90's Eurodance.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Guys Creative is working on fixing the settings issues, and they also want to know what exactly is that you want them to do in terms if voice/game balance on things like the PS4. I don't have with a mic, so I'm not certain on what to tell them here. *



Better option:  Ability to select from the software if you like to use the gnob to 1) control sidetone or 2) control chat/game balance.

Decent option: Ability to change and save the balance with software

If you could change the chat/game balance with the G6 volume/sidetone gnob, this would be the best device ever for the PS4. I'm loving this thing with HDV 820 & HD 800 S


----------



## Cesarlo (Oct 5, 2018)

Many thanks for assisting us with this, MLE. Much appreciated.

As Lay. said, we need some way to balance and adjust the chat/game audio. It's been trial and error at the moment. Joined a party last night and a couple of people said I sounded a little far away from the mic, but I couldn't adjust it there and then - it'd mean disconnecting my G6, hooking it up to my laptop, going into settings, etc. It isn't ideal at all.

They said I sounded really clear, better than when I used to use my boom mic with the X7, just that I sounded a little quiet.

The time before that, game audio almost dominated the chat audio, to the point that I couldn't hear my friend very well at all at times. Again, there was nothing I could do on the fly.


----------



## dandiego

With the G6 in "Direct Mode", does it still decode Dolby Digital 5.1 and just output the left/right channels? Or does the full 5.1 signal just pass through untouched? Thanks


----------



## headphonesonly

dandiego said:


> With the G6 in "Direct Mode", does it still decode Dolby Digital 5.1 and just output the left/right channels? Or does the full 5.1 signal just pass through untouched? Thanks


It will only be stereo


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 8, 2018)

I may edit/update in the future.

----------
----------​
*Creative Sound BlasterX G6*







$150 (price checked Sep 2018)
Where to buy: *Creative, Amazon, Newegg*



Spoiler:  Creative G6 Review



_
Note: As with the X7, Creative will likely update the G6 throughout the months, fixing and improving its feature set where any issues encountered at the point of this review may well be eliminated. I will be updating this review whenever new fixes or tweaks are noteworthy and worth mentioning. The review will be written mostly as if all is working as it is intended. At the moment, there are problems which I will address in the 'Issues/Bugs' section of the review. This review will also be structured a little differently due to the sheer amount of features and settings I need to discuss._

Creativelabs Sound BlasterX G6. A gaming-centric dac/amp, that supports up to 32bit/384khz quality audio.

Before I begin, I'd like to give an obscene amount of thank yous to Creative for giving me the opportunity to test the G6 as well as the Creative Trio. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't have had this chance. @Evshrug also receives many thanks for being the original point of contact between Creative and I. Ok, with that out of the way, on to the review.

Creative has finally given us something we have been begging to have for years: A simple device that can output virtual surround to external dacs and/or amplifiers. Granted, this is not even close to its main use case, but it's finally here. Rather, it's here again, as Creative already gave us that in the form of the X7 a few years ago in form of an update for the X7, after many months of begging from the audiophile community. The X7 however is a bigger, more expensive, and more fully realized product that doesn't make too much sense to purchase just for that specific use. The G6 is more or less like a shrunk down version of the X7. More affordable, portable friendly, and without any real trade-offs aside from not being able to power speakers, and a little less feature packed. Is it worth your dime? I definitely think it may be, and in the future, I definitely think it will be. Let's see why.



*Build*​
The G6 looks identical to the G5, but with more functionality and versatility. No larger than a standard men's wallet, if a little thicker, the G6 can be easily transported and easy to use for things such as laptops. It's encased in a really nice dark metallic finish with a brushed metal accent on top where the Sound BlasterX branding (which has a customizable RGB led on the 'X') is placed. The entire bottom side is covered in an anti-slip rubber material.

On the front of the unit is the volume knob with a white led ring surrounding it that brightens as you raise the volume. If you push in the volume knob and hold it for a few moments, the led ring will light up red, letting you know that it has changed to sidetone (mic) volume control. To the left of the volume knob is the 3.5mm headphone jack, while the 3.5mm microphone input is on the right.

On the back of the unit is the inputs and outputs. The far right is the micro USB input for power/PS4/PC dac capabilities. I really do hope that whatever comes next from Creative as a successor to this unit, will have USB-C input. Let's be forward thinking in this regard, and put micro usb to rest once and for all. But that's a general pet peeve against anything that still uses micro usb. I, for some reason, am prone to destroy micro usb ports.

The leftmost input is the line/optical in, which you're likely to use for consoles to decode Dolby Digital for SBX virtual surround, and to the right of it is the line/optical out, which in my opinion is the most interesting aspect of the G6. Through the G6 software, you're able to set the G6 to output SBX headphone surround through the line/optical out, so you can gain the benefits of SBX with external dacs and amplifiers. Many of us here have our own (higher end) gear and will want the G6 simply to send SBX to our gear. Previously, our only solution for this was Creative's own X7, though it came with a steep price, and its own really good dac and amp, so it felt a bit redundant and wasteful. Now, while the G6 has a very clean sounding dac and respectable (and high volume output) amplifier, the affordability, and ability to use with external gear really is what makes it a must have in my opinion. I believe it makes gear like the Astrogaming Mixamp obsolete, at least for the more serious audiophile. Creative, THANK YOU, for this.

Moving on to the sides of the unit, the left side is empty on any features. It simply has a black accent and some product information. Nothing worthy of note here. The right side is far more interesting.

To the left of the unit, there is the Scout Mode button which also functions as a 'Direct Mode' toggle when pressed down for a few seconds (the button will blink continuously while in this mode). This bypasses all forms of processing for the purest stereo signal.

To the right of the Scout Mode button is the SBX button which is pretty self explanatory. Pressing this will activate SBX processing.

To the right of the SBX button is gain switch/slider. Low gain on the left, high gain on the right. The G6 has a very generous volume output, and I don't see almost any headphone having a problem being driven loudly. Loud does not equate to being perfectly driven, but at the very least it's far superior to the GSX1000's meager volume output which has a tendency to sound a bit low with harder to drive headphones. As an example, I would have to max out the volume on the GSX1000 when using my HiFiMAN HE-400 to have a moderate volume. The G6 has PLENTY of volume to spare and would kill my ears long before maxing out the volume.

Finally, to the right of the right side of the unit is some indicators below 'Dolby Audio'. The three small indicators let you know what mode you're currently using. When the left indicator is lit up, you're on sidetone (mic) volume control mode. The center lets you know if the G6 is receiving a Dolby Digital signal. The right lets you know if you're in headphone volume control mode. Sidetone and volume indicators will blink if either one is muted/at their lowest volume.

That's it as far as what's on the physical part of the G6.

The G6, is noticeably lighter than Sennheiser's GSX1000, though I don't think weight is an issue with either unit. It feels very sturdy and well made. Despite its much lower cost compared to the GSX1000, it looks decidedly higher end, and of higher quality externally. Of course, the GSX1000 has all its functions directly on the unit making it a bit easier to use, but aesthetically, the G6 is a much more attractive unit to my eyes.

During use, the G6 runs quite warm, but I expect it's well within internal tolerances. It's no Schiit Lyr, at least. That thing could fry an egg. The G6 makes a pretty comfy hand warmer.

​*Accessories
*​
The G6 comes with a standard micro usb cable to type A, and an optical cable with a mini plug on on end that goes directly into the optical input on the G6 itself. Neither cable is very long, and in my case, both are way too short to get any real use out of them. My PC and consoles are connected to a 65" TV, and thus I need pretty lengthy cables to reach where I sit. Thankfully I have my own cables, but keep that in mind. You may need to have your own lengthy cables if you plan on having the G6 near you and aren't using it in a standard PC setup where you're sitting at a desk.

That's it as far as what comes in the box, other than warranty, setup guide and other reading material. Not that it really needs anything else.

​*Software
*​
As previously mentioned, the G6 needs the PC software to change some pretty important settings, so I do hope the prospective buyer has a computer on hand to tweak these settings. Fortunately, once you have everything set up in the software to your liking, there shouldn't really be a need to go back often, as the main functions can just be changed on the unit itself. Let me break down the actual software. There is a lot, as you'll undoubtedly notice. Starting with the far left, there is a long vertical column with a few main options:
​*Dashboard:
*​
This is where you will find a few important subsections:

*BlasterX Experience* - a Library of custom presets like Gaming, Music, DOTA 2, Overwatch, and many more. Each preset has specific settings, like a different EQ preset, surround mode, and other values. Whichever preset you choose will have a large image to the right of this section, showing your selection.

To the right of this, is a condensed, cut down version of the other main sections as noted below:

​*Sound:
*​
This is where you will find the following sub-sections:


*Equalizer*

Self explanatory. You can adjust the sound via various EQ presets, or even create your own presets and save them/add them to the list. As I like my headphones/speakers in their intended state, I don't use Equalizers. However, if you're used to tweaking a sound to your preference, there's enough customizability here to reach a sound you'd be happy with. Had it been a simple few presets, I probably would have tested them and given a few impressions on what they do, but there is simply way too many here. I'll leave it to those who actually use EQ settings to experiment.


*Acoustic Engine*

This is where you'll find the most useful settings the G6 software has to offer. Here you have:


*Surround* - This is the SBX surround feature. Unlike the X7 where it was a slider with great granularity, the Surround options here are limited to Normal (which is basically SBX surround being turned off), Wide, and Ultra Wide. As SBX doesn't really have any reverb, I personally recommend Ultra Wide, so that there is discernible distance in the soundstage in which sound cues have space between you and the edge of the the soundstage. I feel wide has too small a soundstage and it makes it harder to discern sound cues that are behind you. I have been a fan of SBX surround for many years now. Having been used to the really heavily processed sounding Dolby Headphone, SBX was an incredible improvement and quite literally a game changer. There's really not much Creative can improve on with SBX, and I'm incredibly content with its inclusion here. Even with the advent of virtual surround processors like Sennheiser's GSX, and Dolby Atmos, I still believe SBX stand at the top in terms of cleanest audio signal relative to how well the surround processing performs. It's not my favorite in terms of raw surround emulation, but we're talking 99% of the way there. It is undoubtedly the best to my ears in terms of not affecting sound quality in negative ways compared to the others.


*Crystalizer* - Think of this as Creative's own special voodoo magic that tries to decompress audio and turn it into higher quality. This setting is granular and can be set to anywhere between 0-100. I tried to figure out which specific ranges of frequency this affects, but it seems to affect the entire spectrum from small to very noticeable bumps across many ranges. I couldn't find any volume matching point between on and off, and thus I don't feel comfortable in guessing what it exactly affects, as the entire spectrum was louder compared to having this option off. I'm not someone who likes to alter the raw sound from my speakers or headphones, and as such, I leave settings like this off, personally. This may be beneficial for lower quality headphones/speakers that lack detail and sound muffled, low grade.


*Bass* - This can also be adjusted from anywhere between 0-100. The higher, the louder the bass. From my testing with Sinegen, it affects and raises the volume from the very bottom of 15hz (the lowest point on Sinegen) all the way to about 90hz, in which it begins to roll off below non-EQ volume, and normalizes/balances out at around 160hz in which it no longer affects the rest of the frequency range. Again, not something I would personally use, but if you're not comfortable with tweaking the equalizer itself, this may be an easier way to get more bass from your bass deficient headphones, or if you're just an outright basshead.


*Smart Vol(ume)* - This (per Creative): _"Intelligently minimizes abrupt volume changes automatically"_. You can choose between Off, Auto, and Night. While I don't use this, I can see a reason to use it for things like cable television, where things like commercials may be much louder than whatever you're viewing.


*Dialog+* - You can choose between Off, Normal, Balanced, and Dialog Focus. I found very subtle changes between Off, Normal, and Balanced, with Dialog Focus really making a noticeable difference in volume compared to Off, especially in the bass and lower midrange.​
*Scout Mode *- The next sub-section under the Sound section after Acoustic Engine is Scout Mode. In Creative's own words (as stated in the software), Scout Mode is _"Designed to help you hear what you see such as footsteps, speech, and weaponry handling acoustic characteristics without the use of explicit frequency shaping..."_

You can toggle it Off/On, and there is a Hot Key function and off/on toggle for the hot key. As far as Scout Mode itself, it seems to emphasize a broad range between 3-7khz to my ears. The details are turned up considerably. Despite what the software says, I do feel it is like a specialized EQ preset.

*Dolby* - Next to Scout Mode is Dolby, which confused me at first as I had initially thought the SBX surround processing would be placed here. This sub-section is essentially Dolby's dynamic range compression. It goes from Full, to Normal, to Night. Per the software, wide volume swings between loud and quiet can be customized to match your listening preferences.

*Filters* - The last sub-section under 'Sound' is 'Filters'. You get choices between: Fast Roll Off - Minimum Phase, Slow Roll Off Minimum Phase, Fast Roll Off - Linear Phase, and Slow Roll Off - Linear Phase. I used to have Audio-GD gear with similar options, and like back then, I had no idea what they truly did, and how to use them, so I left it in their original state. This is outside the scope of my understanding, and even when I read up on it, I still didn't quite grasp the intention and resulting effect.

​*Voice:
*​
This is where the section 'Voice Morph' lies. As it's likely evident to everyone by now, this allows you to alter your voice in real time with 18 different preset 'voices'. On the right you can turn on the option to listen to your morphed voice.

​*Lighting:
*​
This section allows you to customize the led RGB color of the X in BlasterX on the top of the G6 unit itself. Your options are as follows:

*Solo* - This is a solid color of your choosing. I chose a dim red, as red is the easiest on the eyes in terms of possible strain/fatigue, and the least likely to annoy in a dark room.

*Pulsate* - This option is a breathing effect. You can choose the color as well as how fast the color 'breathes'.

*Music Reactiv*e - The color with pulsate based on music. The effect can range from subtle to obvious.

*Cycle* - The color cycles in a rainbow-esque pattern. You can set the speed from slow to ridiculously fast.

As far as how to change the color, you have a column with all manner of color gradients, as well the intensity of the color, opacity, and even numerical and hexadecimal notation of said colors. In short, if you can think of a color, it's capable on the G6. I personally went with a dim red, as it's proven to cause the least amount of eye strain, and doesn't brighten a dark room like other colors. I'm not about that RGB life.

​*Sign In:
*​
Here you can register and sign in. Once signed in, The Info sub-section will display your First and Last Name, Birth Month, and Year. You can edit your profile, change your password, and sign out. The Products sub-section shows the product (Sound BlasterX G6) and you can register the product with Creative here. Nothing terribly exciting here.

​*Setup:
*​
Placed far down in the main options column, Setup has some very important settings.

​*Headphones:
*​
Here you can change the Output Mode, Configuration, and Apply Headphone Virtualization.


*Output Mode -*changes between Audio Effects and Direct. Audio Effects is how you can use any processing options in the software. Direct mode is the purest, unprocessed stereo signal. I use both daily and it depends on whether I'm playing games, listening to music, or listening to other forms of media.

*Configuration *- Here you can set the number of speakers. Stereo (the only way to get the advertised 32bit/384khz), 5.1 and 7.1 (which are the only ways to get proper SBX headphone surround to work). Both these will cap out at 32bit/96khz, and if you change back to stereo, it will be at 96khz, until you change the sampling rate back to 384khz in Windows sound panel. Note again that 384khz does not work unless Output Mode is set to Stereo. My recommendation here is to set to 32bit/96khz, and set speakers to 7.1. You'll have the best form of SBX surround, and if you want really clean stereo audio, you can just toggle direct mode either in the software or holding down the Scout Mode button on the G6 itself for a few seconds. 32bit/96khz sounds perfectly fine to me, and I don't personally see a discernible improvement/use for 384khz.

*Apply Headphone Virtualization To* - Here you can change between sending SBX headphone surround to Headphones or Line and Optical Out (in case you have an external dac or amplifier that you wish to use instead of the G6's internal dac/amp but wish to retain SBX headphone surround.) This, to my head-fi community may be the big draw, as you can finally get SBX surround and send it directly to another DAC or amplifier, at half the cost of the only other device that did this before, the X7.

​*Speakers:
*​
Here you can change the Output Mode, Configuration, and Speaker Type

*Output Mode* - Audio Effects is how you can use any processing options in the software. Direct Mode is the untouched, unprocessed signal for purest sound. SPDIF-Out Direct allows up to 24/96 bit to bit streaming without processing to the optical output signal for your external devices with an optical input.

*Configuration* - Stereo, 5.1, 7.1. Pretty self explanatory.

*Select Speaker Type* - You can select from Desktop, Bookshelf, Tower, and Custom Speakers (which allows you to set the crossover frequency, the default for custom being 80hz).

​*Mixer:
*​
Here you can change the various input/output volume levels and volume balance.

Playback, Monitoring of the Line In, External Mic, SPDIF In as well as adjust the Recording volumes of the SPDIF In, External Mic, Line In, and 'What U Hear.

​*Settings:
*​
Under General, you can change the language for the software, toggle whether you want the software to turn on when Windows starts, check for software updates.

Under Device, you can reset to factory default, and check for firmware updates.

Last but not least, at the very bottom of the software window in a bar displaying your current output, what BlasterX Experience preset you're on, whether Scout Mode is on, whether SBX is on, and whether Direct Mode is on. They're all dark and grayed out if not in use.

Further on the bottom right is a mic icon, Dolby Audio icon, and headphone icon. You can also adjust the volume here directly.

​*Ease of Use
*​
The G6 appears easy to use at first, but it actually requires quite a little bit of tweaking before you're 100% ready to go. It is wholeheartedly recommended that you first plug the G6 to a PC, update the firmware via Creative's website, download the drivers, and software. It's quite a bit more involved than the GSX1000 in this regard, which is more or less immediately plug and play. There is a bit of setup necessary in the software to change settings not found on the unit itself, which I'll talk about in a later section. I'll just say the software itself is not immediately easy to use, and will take a bit to get used to. Not too long, but it's not child's play at first glance.

The functions on the unit itself are relatively easy and self explanatory to use. The only shortcuts on the unit are the previously mentioned sidetone (mic) volume setting which occurs when pressing down the volume knob for a few seconds, and the other being holding down the Scout Mode button to change to direct mode for purest unprocessed stereo audio. On gaming consoles, it also needs a bit of tweaking on their side. For example, on PS4, you need to connect both usb and optical cables, and make sure the system is outputting Dolby Digital to the optical out, as well as setting the audio going to the usb connection to chat only, since if you do all Audio, you won't get SBX surround. As I mentioned, it takes some setting up before you're ready to go.

Personally, after getting used to the software layout, I didn't find much to complain about. The main areas of the software I normally visit are the Acoustic Engine (for SBX) and Setup (for changing the speakers between stereo to 5.1/7.1, and toggling between Audio Effects and Direct Mode). Considering that I can just use the G6 itself to change these settings other than speaker number, I really find the G6 easy to use in my use case. That being said, I tend to leave all bells and whistles off. Things like Equalizers, Night Modes, Presets, Scout Mode, Bass Controls, and other things of this nature, I always leave off. The only function I use that isn't the raw, purest sound, is surround processing, as I love to play games with virtual surround. Even that gets turned off when I listen to stereo sources, like music. Seeing as I leave basically everything off, I don't have much of a reason to interact with the software itself outside of the initial setup, switching from SBX to Direct mode.

For anyone who likes to tweak all these things regularly, there is quite a lot to sift through in the software. I'm sure with some time it will be easy to use, but it's quite crammed with features to my eyes, where some people may be a little lost at first. Thankfully, the Dashboard section of the software is basically a cut down version of the other main sections, so most of the truly important settings are placed here for extra convenience.

​*Amplification
*​
The G6 is surprisingly pretty potent for its small size. I don't have the specs to compare, but I can with confidence say it's likely the most powerful gaming amplifier outside of Creative's own X7. It provides ample volume from what I can see, and it makes the GSX1000 seems woefully underpowered in comparison. Now, it's no desktop amp, and I would recommend having a good amplifier on hand for  insensitive or high impedance headphones, but for most general headphones and essentially all headsets, the G6 is definitely potent enough, providing an outstanding amount of volume headroom.

​*Microphone
*​
I didn't have any issues connecting the mic to the G6. The G6 has a mic input, but the headphone jack also accepts TRRS plugs, so no need to use an adapter to insert into the mic input. The voice morph settings all sounded a bit different from one another, though Brute and Orc were more or less the same, with the Orc setting being slightly deeper. I dunno if it's just me, but the Emo setting sounded quite like my normal voice. What are you implying here, Creative? I kid. The mic monitoring worked as well as one can expect. Simply pressing in the volume wheel on the G6 turned the led red, and I was able to raise the volume where I could hear my own voice clearly.

​*Personal Recommendations
*​
The G6 will suit a variety of uses, and different individuals. Do you have a somewhat decent amount of headphones with varying levels of sensitivity and uses? The G6 will more than likely do absolutely fine with any of them. I probably wouldn't advise attaching 600ohm headphones directly to it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they would at the very least be driven to loud volumes.

If you just want one decent dac/amp for general use? The G6 has you covered. It has a clean, detailed sound to my ears and functions has a good dac, amp, or both.

Do you just want a device that will send SBX virtual surround to your higher end audiophile gear? The G6 has you covered here as well. The virtual surround can be sent digitally to another dac.

Only have an amplifier? The line out will allow the G6 to function as a dac, and can send virtual surround to your amplifier without double amping (the Astro Mixamp and Sennheiser GSX1000 would have to double amp, which is less ideal, objectively speaking).

Despite a few pet peeves with the software, I believe the G6 is the best gaming dac/amp to come out since the Creative's X7, and an even more attractive option if you already have your own gear.

​*Comparisons
*​
*Asus Xonar U3:* This is an old, tiny device that is usb and PC use only, so not exactly comparing apples to apples. That being said, it is a much more affordable choice, and can also send virtual surround to dacs or amps for very low cost. Problem being that's older, uses Dolby Headphone (which is inferior to SBX in most regards), has a weak amplifier, and I personally wouldn't use for anything other than a way to send Dolby Headphone to your own gear. The G6 is in every way a superior device, with much more versatility. Unless you're pinching pennies and need a super low cost option, I would skip the U3 for the G6 any day of the week.

*Sennheiser GSX1000: *This is a much more legitimate comparison. I really like the warmer, more analog-esque sound quality of the GSX1000, and I think GSX surround may be the best virtual surround out. Not by much, but I just have a slight preference to how it sounds in terms of positional cues over SBX (though we're talking a very, very slight preference). I also like that the GSX1000 is incredibly easy to use, and there is no software. All its options and settings are on the unit itself via its touch interface. On the downside, the GSX1000 is limited to just PC use through USB, and can't send GSX surround to other dacs or amplifiers, outside of attaching an amplifier to its headphone jack, which is not ideal. This is a hard comparison because I love both devices, but I have to say for most people, I think the G6 is a better option. Not only is it considerably cheaper, but it's far more versatile. I would only recommend the GSX1000 over the G6 if you simply  only plan on using a device for a PC, and don't have harder to drive headphones. Even then, you're spending quite a bit more, for a more limited device.

*Creative X7: *The X7 is the older, bigger, and more fleshed out sibling to the G6, and as such, is the one to go for when you just want one device that does absolutely everything. I prefer its software much, much more than the G6. The X7 has a very potent dac and amplifier, so there really is no need to get anything more. This is the one I would recommend for newcomers that want it all without needing to attach anything else. If you have or plan on using other higher end products with a gaming device, the G6 makes more sense, no question. It's half the cost of the cheapest X7, and considering you'll be using another dac and amp, all of the extra goodies on the X7 are left unused in that situation.

*Astro Mixamp: *This is probably the one a lot of newcomers would probably be interested in. Unfortunately, it has been many years since I've owned any Mixamp, and I can't say what improvements, if any have been made since. All I know is that the older Mixamps (2013 and older), didn't have particularly good internals either in their dacs or amp stages. I would choose a G6 over the Mixamp 99% of the time. I believe the main benefit of choosing a Mixamp over the G6 is the game/voice volume mixing on the fly. Even then, I still would lean heavily towards the G6 due to all its other strengths over the Mixamp, including better virtual surround, cleaner, more powerful amplifier, its line/optical out properties, and more.

​*Likes, Dislikes, Issues
*​
*Likes:*​
SBX Surround​
High volume output​
Clean sound​
Many options​
Virtual surround through its line/optical out​
Aesthetics​
Versatility​

*Dislikes:*​
Software layout​
Software bugs (as of writing this review), like not saving settings consistently/reverting settings​
Can't adjust game/chat balance without going into the software​

*
Issues:*

*1*. *Not saving settings consistently.*

Apply Headphone Virtualization settings, under the Setup section is not saving the setting correctly. Let me explain. That setting has no reason to revert. So if I set it to line out/optical, I want it to remain on line out/optical from then on. Well, right now, it sometimes reverts to one or the other. I don't know what causes the setting to stick to a particular one, but it's not consistent. So I basically have to check or change that setting EVERY TIME I turn the PC/G6 on. Now, I have done most of my testing on PC, but I can imagine if someone is mainly a console gamer and wants a specific setting only to find that it keeps reverting to the other, and they aren't getting headphone virtualization where they want it, this can be incredibly frustrating.

Say if my PS4 is in the living room, and I notice headphone virtualization isn't being applied to the line out/optical which I would send the signal to my own external dac/amp. I'll have to go back to my bedroom with the G6, turn on the PC, go to the G6 software, change the setting, and then go put the G6 back next to my console setup in the living room. Every single day. And there are even users that don't even have PCs, so their chances to change the settings are even more limited.

I think it's a bigger problem for people using the G6 simply to send headphone virtualization to the line out/optical for their own external gear. It may possibly default to Headphone, and they can't benefit from headphone virtualization for their gear until they go to the settings on PC and change it. This has no reason to auto switch unless it detects a headphone being connected to the G6, and as far as I can tell, this setting does NOT have an auto switch function.

My recommendations here is that hopefully wherever your G6 is setup, it is also attached to a PC, so that you can periodically check if the 'Apply Headphone Virtualization' is set to what you need it to be. In the case of headphones being attached directly to the G6, this setting does not matter, as it will still get proper headphone virtualization, but if you plan on using the G6 just to send SBX surround to your own dac or amplifier, this setting is the most crucial setting of all.

If you're someone who plans on only using the G6 with consoles, and only plan on attaching headphones to the G6 and not to external gear, you won't have any real issues. The G6 will pick up the consoles Dolby Digital signal through the optical cable (assuming you have the console set to that), and all you have to do is turn on the SBX button on the unit. The only inconsistency here may be that you won't know if you're getting Wide or Ultra Wide for the SBX setting. Only the software on a PC lets you know what setting SBX is on, and due to the device not being consistent with these settings, you simply have no way of knowing outside of listening to the unit and knowing the difference between Wide and Ultra Wide.

I have faith Creative will fix this with an update, but be wary that this is a current issue. I will update this review if and when this is fixed.


*2. Software pet peeves.*

The software is a step back from the X7's software which is easy to understand and navigate. It's not rocket science, but I feel the software layout can be cleaned up and simplified a bit.

The Sign In, Setup, Settings are separated from Dashboard, Sound, Voice, Lighting sections. They're close when the window is small, but since you need to maximize to see all options, these three options are on the very bottom for some inexplicable reason.









Just keep them together, Creative. There shouldn't be a need for people to have to go to the bottom for some settings and the top for others, especially if Setup has some important settings like where to send headphone virtualization.

In the Dashboard section, there is the BlasterX Experience. It's a long list of options that I didn't quite understand at first. It wasn't until recently that I realized it was a list of custom presets that change a variety of options. I also think this should be in its own section instead of only in the dashboard where it doesn't have any information as to what it is. There is a brief mention of what preset is chosen in the sound section, but only the name of the preset and nothing else. It's not even selectable here. Maybe I lack common sense here, maybe not.

Under the Sound section, the first thing you see is the Equalizer screen. Well, I don't ever use Equalizer, so for me, it's just one big empty space. In my opinion, this section should have started with the Acoustic Engine sub-section which has a lot of important settings you will care about. Not to mention, that depending on whether you're in a smaller window or maximized window, these sections CHANGE ORDER.






to






Why? In a small window, Scout Mode is on the top left (and looks like the 1st option), but in a maximized window it is the 3rd option. Please fix this for consistency's sake. I personally think Acoustic Engine, Scout Mode, Equalizer, Dolby Dynamic Range Control, and Filters would be the best order. Just my two cents.

Lastly, when the software doesn't detect the device, all the options change. Why does the software have settings when a device isn't even connected? These are settings that you'll never see as long as the G6 is connected. It's confusing to me.


​*Final Impressions
*​
Barring some software woes, some settings like Surround and Apply Headphone Virtualization being a finicky setting at the moment, I believe the G6 is a potentially huge win for Creative, and something I recommend all headphone gamers that don't already have an X7 look into. There's just so much to this device, that it's impossible to be anything but elated by its feature set (aside from the previously mentioned issues). It is a stellar device that will only get better and better.

I think the G6 is going to be an immensely popular device in the gaming community. It will surely be an automatic recommendation as a gaming dac/amp for 99% of people who ask me personally (once the issues are fixed). Creative just needs to get to work on fixing its problems so I can completely recommend it. From something that I'd at the moment consider a 7/10 (because those issues are a huge problem, and many general consumers will not want to deal with them), it can easily end up as something closer to 9/10. If they can improve the software to be simpler and easier to understand, I'd say it'd be a nearly perfect product.







----------
----------​


----------



## themrmikemcd

Can soneone please help save me from wasting my money? I have the dt770s 80ohm coming in. I have a PS4 and a mix amp and also have FIO E12 amp. 

My question is, would buying a dac\amp combo make any benificial sound difference than the mixamp\E12 that I am currently using? I dont need chat and only use for caual gaming, but want the best sound in the $100 price range.  

My mix amp is getting old and hissing a little more and wondered if buying a dac\amp to use instead of the mix amp could give me any BETTER results.  Thank you all for always being so awesome!


----------



## tmaxx123

themrmikemcd said:


> Can soneone please help save me from wasting my money? I have the dt770s 80ohm coming in. I have a PS4 and a mix amp and also have FIO E12 amp.
> 
> My question is, would buying a dac\amp combo make any benificial sound difference than the mixamp\E12 that I am currently using? I dont need chat and only use for caual gaming, but want the best sound in the $100 price range.
> 
> My mix amp is getting old and hissing a little more and wondered if buying a dac\amp to use instead of the mix amp could give me any BETTER results.  Thank you all for always being so awesome!


 
Do yourself a favor and sell everything. Buy an x7 , full set of sparkos opamps and never look back


----------



## themrmikemcd

tmaxx123 said:


> Do yourself a favor and sell everything. Buy an x7 , full set of sparkos opamps and never look back


Oh, I had to sell like 3 headphones to get the DT770s lol. I have a little left over and was just wanting to upgrade my sound/ not have to use my mix amp if there was a decent benefit of using a dac\amp combo... If someone would by my ultra rare pink and white hyper x clouds 2 on ebay I would totally invest in the X7!


----------



## Pairzilla

tmaxx123 said:


> Do yourself a favor and sell everything. Buy an x7 , full set of sparkos opamps and never look back



Where can one buy the sparkos? I've looked at their site and didn't see any links to sellers? Also is there a certain one that best fits the X7?


----------



## tmaxx123

Pairzilla said:


> Where can one buy the sparkos? I've looked at their site and didn't see any links to sellers? Also is there a certain one that best fits the X7?



eBay or send the owner an email from his website.
X7 needs 4 opamps total:
ss3602 x2
ss3601 x2

Sound is absolutely phenomenal after the upgrade. It’s an investment but if you want the absolute best for gaming/hi res audio all in one, its the best way to go. It’s sound rivals some of my more expensive equipment.


----------



## HairyHook

tmaxx123 said:


> eBay or send the owner an email from his website.
> X7 needs 4 opamps total:
> ss3602 x2
> ss3601 x2
> ...


Just curious, what have you compared the X7+ Sparkos with?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 8, 2018)

edit: Nevermind, just woke up.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 8, 2018)

I just now realized that headfi allows you to go deeper into edits and it has a spell check. SMH. 8 years plus, and I just NOW figured this out.

*edit: The G6 review has been updated and added to the front page. As far as I can tell, this is final, barring some updates once Creative fixes its issues.

It is filed under Creative Sound BlasterX G6, for when you want to search*


----------



## xformulax

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SMH. 8 years plus, and I just NOW figured this out.



Damn, you're still here at it   How've you been?  Still on PSN or back to XBL?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

xformulax said:


> Damn, you're still here at it   How've you been?  Still on PSN or back to XBL?


Yooooo. Long time.

Actually mostly on pc now.


----------



## Cesarlo

PS4 users...

Have you had any issues with friends saying you sound a little quiet? I have one friend who says he can hear me loud and clear (although he admits to having his chat volume really high), whereas three others have said I sound quiet.

Is it simply a case of adjusting the sidetone volume, or is there any other setting(s) in the mixer that I can play around with? 

Many thanks.


----------



## Lay. (Oct 9, 2018)

Cesarlo said:


> PS4 users...
> 
> Have you had any issues with friends saying you sound a little quiet? I have one friend who says he can hear me loud and clear (although he admits to having his chat volume really high), whereas three others have said I sound quiet.
> 
> ...



Hi Cesarlo,

You can adjust your mic volume by adjusting G6 sidetone volume or by PS4 Settings > Devices > Audio Devices > Adjust Microphone Level.


----------



## Cesarlo (Oct 9, 2018)

Lay. said:


> Hi Cesarlo,
> 
> You can adjust your mic volume by adjusting G6 sidetone volume or by PS4 Settings > Devices > Audio Devices > Adjust Microphone Level.



Hi Lay. 

I'd been using 'Adjust Microphone Level' and to me it sounded perfect. I recorded a couple of videos where I tested the mic (while I was in a party), so that I could listen back to it, but then someone else tonight said I sounded quiet so it felt like I was back at square one.

I never had anyone say I sounded quiet when I used the X7, and it's the same people I've always played with, so it's a direct comparison.

I've been doing a few tests to try and get it right. I've adjusted the sidetone (basically put it as high as it'll go), and again it sounds perfectly fine when I test it out, but I'll see what they say tomorrow! Just wondered if there was anything else in the settings I might have missed or could be used to improve it.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## PABZINO

So after a long hard look at the very best headset for xbox competitive play such as pubg, bo4, i still dont know whats the best for me ? For hearings footsteps the best and such. I have plans on sennheiser but theres a few to choose from. What heaphone/headset would you guys suggest as i am going to start streaming bo4 and want to be ready. Let me know, would really appreciate it thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 10, 2018)

Anyways, so I guess my next thing to review is the Creative Trio IEM, so keep an eye out for that, guys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 10, 2018)

Edit: Wrong place


----------



## halcyon

HairyHook said:


> Just curious, what have you compared the X7+ Sparkos with?



Second (different) opinion on Sparkos SS3601 + SS3602 + USB dejitter + regulated linear power supply upgrade on X7:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cre...iew-impressions.756102/page-209#post-14531130

I have compared X7 to:

- AqVox USB Dac 2
- Simaudio Moon 430HA (w/ DAC)
- X7 standard (with OpAmps it ships with)

I can't recommend the Sparkos update un-eq'd, especially if you are sensitive to sibiliance or don't like upper mid-treble frequency range pronounced slow decay (around 6-8kHz).


----------



## PurpleAngel

PABZINO said:


> So after a long hard look at the very best headset for xBox competitive play such as pubg, bo4, i still don't know whats the best for me ? For hearings footsteps the best and such. I have plans on Sennheiser but there's a few to choose from. What headphone/headset would you guys suggest as i am going to start streaming bo4 and want to be ready. Let me know, would really appreciate it thanks.



Sennheiser HD558 or Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) headphones.
Modmic.
Astro Mix-amp.


----------



## Yethal

halcyon said:


> Second (different) opinion on Sparkos SS3601 + SS3602 + USB dejitter + regulated linear power supply upgrade on X7:
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cre...iew-impressions.756102/page-209#post-14531130
> 
> I have compared X7 to:
> ...


Have you tried running Sparkos only without the LPS and the usb dongle?


----------



## halcyon

Yethal said:


> Have you tried running Sparkos only without the LPS and the usb dongle?



Sure, no difference in sound. What I mainly wanted with the PSU was a lower noise floor (can't hear it, perhaps measurements might reveal something) and with de-jitter lack of problems with the USB-connection (sometimes, very rarely, X7 drops off the USB).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 11, 2018)

I remember when I upgraded to Burson V5i opamps on the X7 and had really bad cables and pops. I thought it was the opamps, but it was the USB cable. Swapped it oht for some no name, and it sounded perfectly fine.

I'm not someone to preach about usb cables, but I would at the very least say to find a cable known to do well for audio duties.

That and yes every usb port on your pc. I have noisy ports in all but like one or two ports.


----------



## davisman

I had a chance to check out your G6 review, well done. I agree 100% with your description of SBX. A few years ago my asus stx sound card crapped out, so I replaced it with a sound blaster because it was cheaper. I use the optical out to feed my dac/amp. SBX is just better in my experience than Dolby Headphone. It might be sacrilege to say on head fi, but I actually prefer leaving SBX on all of the time with some headphones. Like the th900 for example, they sound fantastic with SBX. I dont care if it is accurate or not tbh, sounds good!.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I remember when I upgraded to Burson V5i opamps on the X7 and had really bad cables and pops. I thought it was the opamps, but it was the USB cable.



Thanks. I'm using the Creative supplied X7 original USB cable. Already have iFi ground loop breaker and iFi USB Noise filter.

Guess it's time to splurge on a more expensive, properly shielded USB cable and re-arrange all my USB output (now X7 is on an USB controller that is not sharing bandwidth with other USB devices and the controller has it's own, non-shared IRQ).


----------



## illram

Unless your USB cable is actually audibly creating problems, like crackling or going out, there is nothing a different expensive cable will actually do. You do not need to splurge, any cheap monoprice cable will do fine.


----------



## Yethal

When I installed the bursons v5i I had a very loud hum when in the left channel. Problem disappeared after i plugged my router into a different power strip


----------



## ArgBoston

Has anyone here tried the Volkyl Erupts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 12, 2018)

Yethal said:


> When I installed the bursons v5i I had a very loud hum when in the left channel. Problem disappeared after i plugged my router into a different power strip


That's so random!

And yeah i didn't mean to get a fancy usb cable. Just find one that works. The one I initially had just went bad for some reason.

Though that's nothing new for me when it comes to micro usb. Micro usb is cancer.


----------



## halcyon

illram said:


> Unless your USB cable is actually audibly creating problems, like crackling or going out, there is nothing a different expensive cable will actually do. You do not need to splurge, any cheap monoprice cable will do fine.



Generally I agree. I can always run this on scope too. However, these intermittent X7 dropping out of my system (as if disconnected) are bothering me. This has persisted through two different mobos, systems, X7 psus. So, cable is a relatively cheap thing to test next.

And no, don't have issues with audio quality using the current cable.


----------



## BrightCandle (Oct 12, 2018)

SBX Pro is definitely better than Dolby Headphone, no contest. I think it is hard to be sure it is better than CMSS before it however, they are pretty similar. The Sennheiser GSX 1000 implementation is better than SBX Pro in my opinion, the directionality is fairly similar but the tone is impacted less and so produces a more natural soundstage without loosing direction, you still get the impact of lower frequency sounds where SBX Pro butchers them completely.

Not that long ago I also came across Spartial sound card on Steam and it is basically as good as SBX Pro but entirely in software and $20. So it is a cheaper solution that will run through a DAC/AMP or onboard and so gives you the choice of SBX Pro like surround but without having to deal with an actual soundblaster card, so I think it is a better and cheaper solution now for a PC. But given the option I'll always take a Sennheiser GSX 1000, I just think its over priced but its surround sound is the best I have heard (of the modern 5.1/7.1 surround sound sort, A3D is still the bees knees).

Say I had a way to give you a virtual sound card using a personally captured transform that was unique to how you heard, would you be interested in buying such a thing? I have been working on it for a while but I really have no idea if it is worth completing the project and how much interest there likely is.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 13, 2018)

We already discussed something similar in HeSuVi but I don't wanna promote it due to legal gray area, so best leave that talk about Hesuvi itself alone.

There is also Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head which is its own thing, which is also a software solution and works wonders, but is quite pricey. It's really good though. For PC only gamers, it may be worth checking out.


----------



## OmegaWrex (Oct 13, 2018)

Hey I was wondering if someone with a G6 can post a screenshot of the gaming eq preset. I was tweaking mine and didn't like it and hit revert. This sets the eq to flat instead of the stock preset. Tried uninstalling and re-installing the software but the preset stayed flat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 13, 2018)

Flat is the default... You can just turn off EQ, it'll still be the same result. It defaults to gaming as that is the first preset, and it doesn't do any EQ. RPG also has a flat line. Both have EQ turned off by default, and if you turn them on, the curve is flat.


----------



## mindbomb

Seeing the new Assassin's Creed game able to actually max out the cpu usage on a 6 core i5 8400, I was thinking about how the use of software vss would actually in theory hurt performance. So there is still something to be said for the performance benefits of a hardware solution, at least if you don't have smt or more cores.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would think a software solution has an insignificant amount of impact to performance. Surely not a noticeable level.


----------



## Pairzilla

How do I get mic support with the X7 connected to PS4? I have hd660s and blue yeti or Sennheiser game ones. I thought switching to the game ones would make it work but I read that front mic port is not supported by PS4. I've seen people on here talking about the bluetooth adapter from creative but I was reading what it does and it sounds like it is just for bluetooth headphones. Unless I am missing something?


----------



## headphonesonly

Pairzilla said:


> How do I get mic support with the X7 connected to PS4? I have hd660s and blue yeti or Sennheiser game ones. I thought switching to the game ones would make it work but I read that front mic port is not supported by PS4. I've seen people on here talking about the bluetooth adapter from creative but I was reading what it does and it sounds like it is just for bluetooth headphones. Unless I am missing something?


Use your blue yeti as a mic for your ps4


----------



## Pairzilla

headphonesonly said:


> Use your blue yeti as a mic for your ps4




Oh that works? I swear I plugged it in and the PS4 didn't detect it


----------



## headphonesonly

Pairzilla said:


> Oh that works? I swear I plugged it in and the PS4 didn't detect it


It should


----------



## Rozzko

Does anyone use Fidelio X2 with PS4? 
I can't amp they. The sound is okay, but I know it must be more. Now I use tritton ax720 for amping.
Any ideas for replacement ? I am not on a huge budget, G6 and X7 not for my wallet. 
Thanks


----------



## Yethal

Pairzilla said:


> How do I get mic support with the X7 connected to PS4? I have hd660s and blue yeti or Sennheiser game ones. I thought switching to the game ones would make it work but I read that front mic port is not supported by PS4. I've seen people on here talking about the bluetooth adapter from creative but I was reading what it does and it sounds like it is just for bluetooth headphones. Unless I am missing something?


Adapter is called BT-W2. You pair it with the X7 and then plug it into the PS4 and set headset output to chat audio. Creative adapter is not the only one that would work on PS4 though, all adapters that advertise themselves as usb audio devices will work.


----------



## EthanII

I need an external DAC/amp strictly for PC use, and even after reading @MLE's reviews and this entire thread I'm not sure if I should be going with the G6 or the GSX-1000/1200. Pricing up here in Canada is close between the two ($200 for the G6, but the GSX-1200 is $257 on Amazon right now). I currently have Shure SRH-840s and an old pair of Senn HD-555s, though I might pick up the HD 58X. I know the G6 will do a better job of driving the 58X, even without external gear, but the software seems flakey and some users report clicking. General consensus seems to be that the GSX-1000/1200 has slightly better surround and "just works". I dual boot a PC/Hackintosh, and while my X-fi Forte still works well on the PC side I can't get it working in macOS.

Any opinions from current G6 or GSX-1000/1200 owners? Thanks in advance.


----------



## headphonesonly

EthanII said:


> I need an external DAC/amp strictly for PC use, and even after reading @MLE's reviews and this entire thread I'm not sure if I should be going with the G6 or the GSX-1000/1200. Pricing up here in Canada is close between the two ($200 for the G6, but the GSX-1200 is $257 on Amazon right now). I currently have Shure SRH-840s and an old pair of Senn HD-555s, though I might pick up the HD 58X. I know the G6 will do a better job of driving the 58X, even without external gear, but the software seems flakey and some users report clicking. General consensus seems to be that the GSX-1000/1200 has slightly better surround and "just works". I dual boot a PC/Hackintosh, and while my X-fi Forte still works well on the PC side I can't get it working in macOS.
> 
> Any opinions from current G6 or GSX-1000/1200 owners? Thanks in advance.


GSX if you only play on pc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 20, 2018)

The G6 has a new driver update. 10-19-18

*CLICK HERE*

I haven't tested it yet, and it doesn't say anything about fixing the settings issue, but perhaps t may have been a stealth fix. Doesn't hurt to download it and see.


----------



## Clean6eR

hi, 

i have the creative x7, and the only thing that drives me insane about it is the side tone or mic monitor function, when i use it even with all the effects turned off there is a delay thats bad enough that i couldn't read a magazine aloud with it on without it annoying the hell out of me. Mixer boards and other gaming mix amps dont have this level of delay but dont sound as good as the x7.

Could anyone who has the g6 turn on the side tone and try reading a book aloud and see if its instant feedback or if there is a delay please? if you are not sure try turning "listen to this device" on in the windows mic settings and that will show you an example of the delay that plagues the x7.


----------



## stavros.m (Oct 22, 2018)

Hey everyone I l am new a complete audio noob and been looking to replace my old Logitech Headset with something new.. The headphones will only be used for gaming (mmo, RPG, Survial FPS) I play a bit of everything and prefere something more on the FUN side. I mostly game on the PC but lately I been playing a bit more xbox one x. While it's not a must for the headphones to work on the xbox it will be a plus.

I am currently looking at headset and Head phone options and really not sure what direction to go Here are some options i am looking at:

Headsets:
Hyperx alpha
HyperX Cloud MIx (when they will be available in Canada)
Sennheiser game one
Sennheiser gsp 500
Creative Sound BlasterX H5
Creative Sound BlasterX H7

Head Phones:
AKG k7xx
AKG 702
Ath-ad 700x or 900x
Dt770 or 990
Sennheiser 598
HIFIMAN HE-400i
Crossfade M-100


I have no amp or dac but will be buying the the G6 because it seems like the most portable option if i want to move from PC to Console.

Mics are also very important since i play alot of MMO's and i also work from home and will be using the headset will my phone system. I am not sure if i want a usb mic for example for snowball or yet. Since my concern is the clicking sound of the keyboard plus how clear i will be on skype and discord.

Thanks for all the help and i appreciate any recommendation and advice you can give me and also opened to other headsets which might be a better for me.



One more thing as a side note. Do you guys have any opinion on the Porta Pro Wireless. I was thinking of picking them up for when i am traveling and they can connect bluetooth to my surface.

thanks in advance


----------



## HairyHook

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I l am new a complete audio noob and been looking to replace my old Logitech Headset with something new.. The headphones will only be used for gaming (mmo, RPG, Survial FPS) I play a bit of everything and prefere something more on the FUN side. I mostly game on the PC but lately I been playing a bit more xbox one x. While it's not a must for the headphones to work on the xbox it will be a plus.
> 
> I am currently looking at headset and Head phone options and really not sure what direction to go Here are some options i am looking at:
> 
> ...


I'd go with the Phillips Fidelio X2 plus a v-moda boompro mic, IMO that combo it's the best of both worlds in your price range (headphones vs headset). They are on the fun side, extremely comfortable with really big soundstage and they check all your requirements. Easy to drive (20 ohm impedance) and you can connect them everywhere without an amp. I connect them directly to my phone and do conference calls, everybody says the mic is great. For gaming, they really shine on the G6. You can't beat their versatility and comfort.


----------



## stavros.m

HairyHook said:


> I'd go with the Phillips Fidelio X2 plus a v-moda boompro mic, IMO that combo it's the best of both worlds in your price range (headphones vs headset). They are on the fun side, extremely comfortable with really big soundstage and they check all your requirements. Easy to drive (20 ohm impedance) and you can connect them everywhere without an amp. I connect them directly to my phone and do conference calls, everybody says the mic is great. For gaming, they really shine on the G6. You can't beat their versatility and comfort.



thank you for the reply i am taking a look at the Philips X2HR seems like there is no place near me or newegg doesnt sell them either. Amazon is selling them for 400$. Is that a good price for them?


----------



## HairyHook

stavros.m said:


> thank you for the reply i am taking a look at the Philips X2HR seems like there is no place near me or newegg doesnt sell them either. Amazon is selling them for 400$. Is that a good price for them?


No, $400 is a lot for them. I've seen them as low as $150 and normally they can be found for around $200 to $250 (at least in the US)



stavros.m said:


> thank you for the reply i am taking a look at the Philips X2HR seems like there is no place near me or newegg doesnt sell them either. Amazon is selling them for 400$. Is that a good price for them?


Amazon US has them for $256 atm. Try eBay, you might find something cheaper closer to you.


----------



## stavros.m

HairyHook said:


> No, $400 is a lot for them. I've seen them as low as $150 and normally they can be found for around $200 to $250 (at least in the US)



Hey thanks. ya i heard in other forums amazon canada price for Headphones sometimes are much higher then they should be that's why i was asking


----------



## AppleheadMay

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I l am new a complete audio noob and been looking to replace my old Logitech Headset with something new.. The headphones will only be used for gaming (mmo, RPG, Survial FPS) I play a bit of everything and prefere something more on the FUN side. I mostly game on the PC but lately I been playing a bit more xbox one x. While it's not a must for the headphones to work on the xbox it will be a plus.
> 
> I am currently looking at headset and Head phone options and really not sure what direction to go Here are some options i am looking at:
> 
> ...



GSP500 if all you want to do with it is gaming. It's a step up from a game one and both are by far the best options you have mentioned for headsets.

598 or 599 if you want to listen some music as well and amp with your G6.

K7xx or K702 (but I'd take the 7XX0 for some music as well but you'll need a decent headphone amp to get the best out of these. They are nicely spatial for gaming though and would do well with your G6 for gaming but to really hear what they ca do with music you need a quality amp.


----------



## stavros.m

AppleheadMay said:


> GSP500 if all you want to do with it is gaming. It's a step up from a game one and both are by far the best options you have mentioned for headsets.
> 
> 598 or 599 if you want to listen some music as well and amp with your G6.
> 
> K7xx or K702 (but I'd take the 7XX0 for some music as well but you'll need a decent headphone amp to get the best out of these. They are nicely spatial for gaming though and would do well with your G6 for gaming but to really hear what they ca do with music you need a quality amp.



Thanks you for your recommendation. If i would go the headphone route what is your opinion on snowball or yeti mic vs mod mic

thanks again


----------



## AppleheadMay

stavros.m said:


> Thanks you for your recommendation. If i would go the headphone route what is your opinion on snowball or yeti mic vs mod mic
> 
> thanks again



Sorry, can’t help you there. I don’t use a mic on my headphones. 
I have a Razer mic on my desk but hardly ever use it.


----------



## stavros.m (Oct 22, 2018)

AppleheadMay said:


> Sorry, can’t help you there. I don’t use a mic on my headphones.
> I have a Razer mic on my desk but hardly ever use it.



Hey thanks for all your help one last question would you recommend the G6 over the GSX 1200 it looks like they are selling  close to the same price


----------



## headphonesonly

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks for all your help one last question would you recommend the G6 over the GSX 1200 it looks like they are selling  close to the same price


G6 has Dolby Digital decoding so vss will work with your xbox.

Gsx is only usb so vss only works on PC


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 23, 2018)

Im a real newbie to audio world. I only play on PC. Im coming from Astro a40 with tr mix amp. I strictly only play fps and battle royal games, so mostly now black ops 4. I know people say audio is subjective but what would be the best top 3 headphones? I can spend anything up to $300 and maybe more. im leaning towards AKG k7XX, ATH-AD900X or 700x, or Philips Fidelio X2. if you have better suggestions please let me know.


----------



## mbyrnes

Sennheiser PC37X. $119 on Massdrop. More of a fun tuning, but still great for FPS. Gives you a good baseline for cheap, it's super efficient (when I need I mic I just plug them into the Xbox controller). They compete well enough to get you out of the $300 range in my opinion. 

I really enjoy my Monoprice M1060. I've modded the crap out of them, but they're fun as hell. They've improved them since my first version issue. Great bass, and I would still go open. $300 well spent, plus the additional $80 or so on pads and 3D printed plastic. 

Mod mic is great. Braid the cables so it isn't a mess if you decide to go headphone plus mic. Super easy to do and undo.


----------



## AppleheadMay

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks for all your help one last question would you recommend the G6 over the GSX 1200 it looks like they are selling  close to the same price



I have the GSX1000 (basically same as the 1200 with less multiplayer functions if I remember it right) and I like the surround sound it produces.
I never heard the G6 put it will probably be nice as well. A lot of people just wrote about the G6 in this thread so I suggest you read their posts.
The GSX can power the gaming headsets and Senn 500 series but I'd suggest better amping for the 600 series and K7XX.
I have the GSX connected to my HDVA600 amp so I can enjoy its surround with better amping for all my cans.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Sennheiser PC37X. $119 on Massdrop. More of a fun tuning, but still great for FPS. Gives you a good baseline for cheap, it's super efficient (when I need I mic I just plug them into the Xbox controller). They compete well enough to get you out of the $300 range in my opinion.
> 
> I really enjoy my Monoprice M1060. I've modded the crap out of them, but they're fun as hell. They've improved them since my first version issue. Great bass, and I would still go open. $300 well spent, plus the additional $80 or so on pads and 3D printed plastic.
> 
> Mod mic is great. Braid the cables so it isn't a mess if you decide to go headphone plus mic. Super easy to do and undo.


ModMic 5 even includes cable wrap and clips so it's even cleaner now


----------



## stavros.m

mbyrnes said:


> Sennheiser PC37X. $119 on Massdrop. More of a fun tuning, but still great for FPS. Gives you a good baseline for cheap, it's super efficient (when I need I mic I just plug them into the Xbox controller). They compete well enough to get you out of the $300 range in my opinion.
> 
> I really enjoy my Monoprice M1060. I've modded the crap out of them, but they're fun as hell. They've improved them since my first version issue. Great bass, and I would still go open. $300 well spent, plus the additional $80 or so on pads and 3D printed plastic.
> 
> Mod mic is great. Braid the cables so it isn't a mess if you decide to go headphone plus mic. Super easy to do and undo.



would you recommend the PC37X or the Game One's if both are the exact same price roughly.

thanks


----------



## Seyumi

With the vast knowledge in this thread, have we agreed on the best headphones you can possibly buy for PC gaming when money isn't a factor?  I'm talking about normal (production) headphones you can buy every day and not one-off limited edition $10k BS headphones that come out from time to time. I also don't need a mic.

I'm assuming it's the Sennheiser HD 800/800S from my current research.

My biggest question/concern is this though: We all know PC video games probably don't use the highest fidelity sound files, I'm wondering if there virtually would be no difference between like a $750 Sennheiser HD700 and a $1700 HD 800S. Has anyone found any scientific data or graphs to see where the line is drawn or is it just opinions?

I'm looking to get the best sound setup possible in the future if budget isn't an issue but I'm not dumb enough to assume more expensive = better for specific scenarios such as PC gaming. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: FYI I have a Creative Sound Blaster AE-5 PCIE internal sound card but willing to go external DAC if needed


----------



## PurpleAngel

Seyumi said:


> With the vast knowledge in this thread, have we agreed on the best headphones you can possibly buy for PC gaming when money isn't a factor?  I'm talking about normal (production) headphones you can buy every day and not one-off limited edition $10k BS headphones that come out from time to time. I also don't need a mic.
> I'm assuming it's the Sennheiser HD 800/800S from my current research.
> My biggest question/concern is this though: We all know PC video games probably don't use the highest fidelity sound files, I'm wondering if there virtually would be no difference between like a $750 Sennheiser HD700 and a $1700 HD 800S. Has anyone found any scientific data or graphs to see where the line is drawn or is it just opinions?
> I'm looking to get the best sound setup possible in the future if budget isn't an issue but I'm not dumb enough to assume more expensive = better for specific scenarios such as PC gaming. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
> EDIT: FYI I have a Creative Sound Blaster AE-5 PCIE internal sound card but willing to go external DAC if needed



My opinion and two cents.
Never heard anyone say they have found headphones that are better (in general) at FPS gaming, then the Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) or AKG K700 series headphones.
And both of them cost way less then the HD800.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Xspearo said:


> Im a real newbie to audio world. I only play on PC. I'm coming from Astro A40 with tr mix amp. I strictly only play fps and battle royal games, so mostly now black ops 4. I know people say audio is subjective but what would be the best top 3 headphones? I can spend anything up to $300 and maybe more. I'm leaning towards AKG k7XX, ATH-AD900X or 700x, or Philips Fidelio X2. if you have better suggestions please let me know.


For PC FPS gaming, Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card and Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones or Sennheiser HD598 or Audio Technica ATH-AD900X.


----------



## stavros.m

Has anyone had any experience with the ATH-ADG1X my friend found them used and was debating on picking them up. 

thanks


----------



## Xspearo

PurpleAngel said:


> For PC FPS gaming, Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card and Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones or Sennheiser HD598 or Audio Technica ATH-AD900X.


Cool thank you!! which Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card do you recommend?


----------



## headphonesonly

Xspearo said:


> Cool thank you!! which Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card do you recommend?


Get an external dac/amp like the g5 or e5


----------



## stavros.m

headphonesonly said:


> Get an external dac/amp like the g5 or e5



may i ask what is the big difference between the G5 or G6


----------



## Xspearo

headphonesonly said:


> Get an external dac/amp like the g5 or e5


ok, whats the difference with the G6?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone had any experience with the ATH-ADG1X my friend found them used and was debating on picking them up.
> 
> thanks



Had them and thought in general they were great. Loved the sound of them for gaming. Negatives were minor tbh but collectively annoyed me - mic couldn’t be moved completely out of peripheral vision when not needed, build felt very flimsy to me and the main one was the awful attached cable (had a complete mind of its own).


----------



## stavros.m

WhiteHartMart said:


> Had them and thought in general they were great. Loved the sound of them for gaming. Negatives were minor tbh but collectively annoyed me - mic couldn’t be moved completely out of peripheral vision when not needed, build felt very flimsy to me and the main one was the awful attached cable (had a complete mind of its own).



thanks for the comment will let him know


----------



## AppleheadMay

Seyumi said:


> With the vast knowledge in this thread, have we agreed on the best headphones you can possibly buy for PC gaming when money isn't a factor?  I'm talking about normal (production) headphones you can buy every day and not one-off limited edition $10k BS headphones that come out from time to time. I also don't need a mic.
> 
> I'm assuming it's the Sennheiser HD 800/800S from my current research.
> 
> ...



If you have a HD800(S) it's of course a great idea to use it for gaming as well but I don't think it's worth it to spend that much on a headphone just for gaming purposes.
I concur with the AK700 series that have been recommended here as great high-end headphones (disregard prices) that perform well for gaming, I had a few from that series. I don't know the AD700.
I can really recommend the HD700 for gaming as well which I bought new for 400€. It pays to look around a bit when buying Senns.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

EthanII said:


> I need an external DAC/amp strictly for PC use, and even after reading @MLE's reviews and this entire thread I'm not sure if I should be going with the G6 or the GSX-1000/1200. Pricing up here in Canada is close between the two ($200 for the G6, but the GSX-1200 is $257 on Amazon right now). I currently have Shure SRH-840s and an old pair of Senn HD-555s, though I might pick up the HD 58X. I know the G6 will do a better job of driving the 58X, even without external gear, but the software seems flakey and some users report clicking. General consensus seems to be that the GSX-1000/1200 has slightly better surround and "just works". I dual boot a PC/Hackintosh, and while my X-fi Forte still works well on the PC side I can't get it working in macOS.
> 
> Any opinions from current G6 or GSX-1000/1200 owners? Thanks in advance.



I came from a G5 to the GSX1000 and never looked back. The GSX VSS was a noticeable improvement for me, especially rear cues now sounded they were actually coming from the rear. Don't know about the G6, but I guess it's the same SBX as on the G5. However, the option to line out SBX on the G6 is really nice and something I dearly miss on the GSX.

Just get the GSX and see if it can drive your headphones, or get both and return the inferior device after testing.


----------



## headphonesonly

Xspearo said:


> ok, whats the difference with the G6?


G6 has Dolby Digital support. If you also play on consoles then the g6 makes sense to get over the g5/e5. Otherwise if you only play on pc get either the g5, e5, or gsx.


----------



## Clean6eR

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone had any experience with the ATH-ADG1X my friend found them used and was debating on picking them up.
> 
> thanks


hi,

I have the ath-adg1x and the ath-adg1, the x has a better positioned mic, it can get closer to your mouth, the non x set sounds distant and like you are on a confrence call as you need to up the mic gain and this introduces a little more room noise.

the sound of both of them is the same. also they both sound like the ad700 with a mic slapped on them, the x model has a longer cable and the non x cable is so short it almost needs an extension cable.


----------



## mbyrnes

Seyumi said:


> With the vast knowledge in this thread, have we agreed on the best headphones you can possibly buy for PC gaming when money isn't a factor?  I'm talking about normal (production) headphones you can buy every day and not one-off limited edition $10k BS headphones that come out from time to time. I also don't need a mic.
> 
> I'm assuming it's the Sennheiser HD 800/800S from my current research.
> 
> ...



1) Smyth Research Realizer A16. Should launch in the next 6 months. Huge thread here. Atmos, DTS-X, 9.6.1 channel. Can record any surround sound room in the world and mimic it through headphones. You can record one speaker and create an Atmos setup from that. Cost? $4,000 give or take. I was lucky, along with a few others in this thread to get in under half that price. Kickstarter backers got in for like $800. The wait has been LONG. 

X7 or G6 for consoles and PC, Senns thing if your PC only, if $4K is not realistic, which isn't for the vast majority. It does everything, and depends on the user. 

2) Headphones are really user specific. But generally, great headphones make great surround headphones. Some think it's crazy to spend a lot for gaming cans. My entire setup is mostly based on surround use, 80% of that gaming. Music listening is usually through my 2 channel system. I don't want to talk about how much I've spent, but I don't regret any of it! I have headphones for pure fun, sound whoring, and somewhere in the middle. Outside of my best headphone, the rest all have trade offs. The HE-X V2s really do everything well with an expansive soundstage. I would imagine the HD800 series would be just as awesome overall. I would think it would be worth the expense if you use them. 

Electrostatic headphones might be awesome, haven't tried yet. I prefer planar to dynamic drivers. That's me though, everyone is different. I also have a very distinct sound preference, and I loved the HE-X far more than the HD800. I'm just glad I know what I'm looking for in a headphone. I still may pick up an HD800S after the A16 arrives. It was the headphone they used designing it.


----------



## raband

mbyrnes said:


> 1) Smyth Research Realizer A16. Should launch in the next 6 months



"Should"


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> "Should"


I heard something similar in 2017


----------



## mbyrnes

I'll be shocked if we don't have it in 6 months. But, I'm not anxious about it because I have no clue. When it ships, it ships. Life goes on, I still enjoy the great gear I have in the time being. Everyday it isn't here I save money, lol.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey thanks everyone for the help I am still debating between the game ones, pc37x and now the HD 598 with mod mic. I will be getting the gsx 1200 (cheaper then 1000 on amazon canada) or the G6 (maybe G5 since the G6 doesnt seem to be available in canada yet). My only debate is I am hearing the hd598 sr are basically the game ones as far as sound is concerned. Is the mod mic + HD 598sr that much better then the game ones. Same idea goes for the pc37x the are the same drivers as the hd598 and 600. So will this be better then the HD598 and game ones. Also is  having the modmic separate that much better then mic on a  headset.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Clean6eR

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks everyone for the help I am still debating between the game ones, pc37x and now the HD 598 with mod mic. I will be getting the gsx 1200 (cheaper then 1000 on amazon canada) or the G6 (maybe G5 since the G6 doesnt seem to be available in canada yet). My only debate is I am hearing the hd598 sr are basically the game ones as far as sound is concerned. Is the mod mic + HD 598sr that much better then the game ones. Same idea goes for the pc37x the are the same drivers as the hd598 and 600. So will this be better then the HD598 and game ones. Also is  having the modmic separate that much better then mic on a  headset.
> 
> Thanks in advance


hi,

i have the pc360 (err think that was it, the ones that became the game one's) and the hd599 which you didn't mention, but they do sound different when you a/b them but both have the same house sound, they sound very nice, when i read reviews about the hd600 and hd650 and they say they just sound right, i cry as i find them too warm and muffled, the hd599 and its range to me sound natural, they sound the most natural to me. 

i took out all the crap in the pc360s behind the drives and also took the volume wheel out of line and they sound more open than the hd599. both are really nice sounding, i find the pc360 better for gaming but i think many may say the hd599 are more mature sounding?

having said this i like k701 q701 ad700 t70's ad2000 and hd800's so i kinda prefer cold detailed sounds.


----------



## stavros.m

Clean6eR said:


> hi,
> 
> i have the pc360 (err think that was it, the ones that became the game one's) and the hd599 which you didn't mention, but they do sound different when you a/b them but both have the same house sound, they sound very nice, when i read reviews about the hd600 and hd650 and they say they just sound right, i cry as i find them too warm and muffled, the hd599 and its range to me sound natural, they sound the most natural to me.
> 
> ...



hey thanks for all that before i just picked up any gaming headset now i am learning so much more and so many options lol


----------



## Clean6eR

stavros.m said:


> hey thanks for all that before i just picked up any gaming headset now i am learning so much more and so many options lol


you can end up lost with all the options! i ended up with 93 different headphones and headsets! all the models you mentioned are really good setups! i got the modmic 4 uni and omni directional models and the v5 but i think my v5 is broken because it introduces a lot of hiss. if it worked correctly thats the boom mic to go for, the v moda is also good, but id say mod mic is a little better, i also like the Triton mics from their ax720 type mic, i put one of them on the end of a custom one pro headset adapter cable, it suits my mono tone boring bassy voice well.

top tier mics are ath-adg1/x shennhiserr game one/zero ones, mod mic

i found the mmx300 mic to be rather muffled or bassy for my voice

desk mics like the yeti are a league above but introduce a lot of issues with setting them up and positioning them correctly. each person has their own requirements and there seems to be a right tool for every job! i hope you enjoy the ride and get a setup that you enjoy lots!

i just bought the g6 as i asked if the sidetone worked on it and didnt get a response so figured id add it to the collection, i can let you know how it is when it gets here, the x7 was very good.

an option thats working well at the moment is i put a Mackie onyx black jack on a usb switch to my ps4 and pc, got the antlion xlr to 3.5mm adaptor and am using that to quite good effect. i soldered my t70 250ohm drivers into my custom one pro case which i put dynamat in so i can cut out LOTS of background noise and the interface gives me good quite sidetone. but these things isolate so well i can hear the blood pumping in my head! (wish i didnt have to "keep the noise down")


----------



## stavros.m

Clean6eR said:


> you can end up lost with all the options! i ended up with 93 different headphones and headsets! all the models you mentioned are really good setups! i got the modmic 4 uni and omni directional models and the v5 but i think my v5 is broken because it introduces a lot of hiss. if it worked correctly thats the boom mic to go for, the v moda is also good, but id say mod mic is a little better, i also like the Triton mics from their ax720 type mic, i put one of them on the end of a custom one pro headset adapter cable, it suits my mono tone boring bassy voice well.
> 
> top tier mics are ath-adg1/x shennhiserr game one/zero ones, mod mic
> 
> ...



may i ask what is your current setup right now for gaming on the PC



Clean6eR said:


> you can end up lost with all the options! i ended up with 93 different headphones and headsets! all the models you mentioned are really good setups! i got the modmic 4 uni and omni directional models and the v5 but i think my v5 is broken because it introduces a lot of hiss. if it worked correctly thats the boom mic to go for, the v moda is also good, but id say mod mic is a little better, i also like the Triton mics from their ax720 type mic, i put one of them on the end of a custom one pro headset adapter cable, it suits my mono tone boring bassy voice well.
> 
> top tier mics are ath-adg1/x shennhiserr game one/zero ones, mod mic
> 
> ...



i was also looking at the snowball mic but i am worried if i am on a conferece call at work it would pick up to much in the background



Rhadamanthys said:


> I came from a G5 to the GSX1000 and never looked back. The GSX VSS was a noticeable improvement for me, especially rear cues now sounded they were actually coming from the rear. Don't know about the G6, but I guess it's the same SBX as on the G5. However, the option to line out SBX on the G6 is really nice and something I dearly miss on the GSX.
> 
> Just get the GSX and see if it can drive your headphones, or get both and return the inferior device after testing.



Hi just curious i was watching a review on the GSX and one of the issue was the mic became less natural did you notice that and how did it compare to the G5

thanks


----------



## HairyHook

Clean6eR said:


> you can end up lost with all the options! i ended up with 93 different headphones and headsets! ...


 93?? Is this a typo? lol


----------



## AIucardd

Ok, here is my story (don't be mad about my grammar or sentence structure, English is not my language).
I'm using *Sennheiser PC 363D* almost for 7 years now (maybe more, I can't remember). First, I was using it with 3D G4ME1 USB sound card. It was bad, but for a while I was using it with no problems (sound was like wearing a bucket on my head). Long story short, I bought *Asus Xonar Essence STX*, after watching some dude on youtube (I think it was LevelCap). In hindsight, not the best choice for gaming, but it's what I got now. 
First, I thought that "Dolby Headphone" is not bad, but later I figured, with some testing is some games (escape from tarkov, Arma 3 custom maps for training sound positioning etc.), that it's much more accurate for me to just use 8channels (here) without DH or 7.1VS., and make some EQ changes (here) 

I wanna  change my headphones. I need the headphones witch richer soundstage. It's hard for me to differentiate "front" from the "back" (I'm guess, Escape from Tarkov ingame sound is crap by itself, but still). I hope you can help me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 24, 2018)

stavros.m said:


> would you recommend the PC37X or the Game One's if both are the exact same price roughly.
> 
> thanks


Same headphone, rebranded.



AIucardd said:


> First, I thought that "Dolby Headphone" is not bad, but later I figured, with some testing is some games (escape from tarkov, Arma 3 custom maps for training sound positioning etc.), that it's much more accurate for me to just use 8channels (here) without DH or 7.1VS., and make some EQ changes (here)
> 
> I wanna  change my headphones. I need the headphones witch richer soundstage. It's hard for me to differentiate "front" from the "back" (I'm guess, Escape from Tarkov ingame sound is crap by itself, but still). I hope you can help me



You do realize that turning off  Dolby Headphone even with 7.1/8.1, hell 2000.1 is all just plain stereo. Those channels are just converted to stereo. Instead of windows sending a stereo signal, it is just converted to stereo later in the pipeline. You gain no benefit of doing 7.1 or anything else if you're not using virtual surround. May as well set windows to 2.1.

It's like say a Dolby Digital encoded DVD. If you're only listening to 2 speakers, that 5.1 signal is converted to the 2 channels your speakers can output. Now... if your speakers had a virtual surround processing option, then yes, 5.1 would be a benefit.

Since you're turning off Dolby Headphone, you gain zero benefit from extra channels.

Mind you, if you're not using Dolby Headphone but the game itself has a headphone surround option, then you're gaining THAT benefit. But for stuff like Dolby Headphone, yoiu do NOT want game options labeled headphone surround. You want whatever is closest to something labelled home theater (since that is what Dolby Headphone is using to convert into Dolby Headphone).

A lot of people make the simple mistake of setting their games to whatever headphone presets are in the game,  while they're using virtual surround devices that have Dolby Headphone, GSX, Razer Surround, SBX, etc. You're NOT supposed to do that.


----------



## Xspearo

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Same headphone, rebranded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like i said earlier in this post im a real newibe lol so for headphones on PC do i put it in stereo and then in software enable surround? or am i suppose to enable something else for surround. I have AKG K7XX and G6.


----------



## AIucardd (Oct 24, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Same headphone, rebranded.


Sorry, I'm being a bit dumb right now, you mean mine was good enough, so I should get the same, but rebranded (game one) headphone?
If so, do you have some experience with Sennheiser GSP 500 (600, i think, is closed one, so not the best choice)? People are saying that they are basically the same as GAME ONE, but with better MIC. But people are saying the same thing about 360 and game one (not about the mic part tho) 


And thanks for such in depth explanation! I'll try this things out again! Maybe not in Tarkov tho, I think it's not supporting 5.1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 24, 2018)

Xspearo said:


> Like i said earlier in this post im a real newibe lol so for headphones on PC do i put it in stereo and then in software enable surround? or am i suppose to enable something else for surround. I have AKG K7XX and G6.



Since you have the G6, you're supposed to go into the software of the G6, and under setup, change speakers configuration to 5.1 or 7.1. Then in the Acoustic Engine in the G6 software, go to where it says surround and change that to (in my opinion) Ultra Wide. Then on the G6 itself, make sure the SBX button is lit up.

Now if the games you're playing have audio options that state something like STEREO, Headphone Surround, DO NOT USE THOSE. Make sure they are in home theater or something similar. Not many games will have options like this, so it may be a moot point. When games have settings that say something like Headphone Surround, it is under the assumption that you yourself do NOT have devices like the G6 that have their own form of surround processing. This is why you DON'T use settings like that when you DO have your own.


----------



## Clean6eR

stavros.m said:


> i was also looking at the snowball mic but i am worried if i am on a conferece call at work it would pick up to much in the background


i   have a snowball, yeti, se2200 razer siren x, one of them ebay conderson cheap mics and a maplin usb condenser mic too. if you set them up correctly and lower the gain on them or the pc then position them close enough to your mouth they sound very good but its hard to get them close enough to be comfortable with them. headsets and boom mics get around that issue by slapping them in your face.

everyone's requirements are different i guess and with one of the mics mentioned on here you can set them up to sound good. boom and headset mics almost always sound like a radio caster due to the proximity of them.

my current setup: (closed)
i watched youtube videos of interviews and noticed with surround turned on, with almost all of my systems i noticed a delay with lips moving before i heared there voice. that made me turn it off and confirm there was a delay (VERY slight and when gaming its almost easy to overlook) but because of this i now run direct or as little processing as possible.

i have the mackie onyx black-jack with the antlion xlr to 3.5mm phantom power converter hooked up to the beyerdynamic custom one pro which i have dynamatted and transplanted t70 250ohm drivers into, i use the detachable mic cable and switch the beyer mic over with a tritton pro+ mic purely due to the way it picks up my voice. the COP headset lets me seal out LOADS of noise so i dont disturb others in the room and the mackie interface lets me monitor my own voice so i dont shout. i have a g6 coming soon and will try this headset on that to see how that 130db spec goes!

past good setup for gaming (open back)
i used to use a musical fedility mx dac and hp amp in balanced mode into hd800's that setup was stupidly revealing i used the snowball mic then on a boom arm aswell but it was a tad too antisocial for others in the room.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey thank everyone for the help and i have i have learned alot i have narrowed it down to the hd 598sr or the k7xx headphone and I think i am favoring the G6 over the gsx 1200 but not sure there yet. With a modmic 5.0. Last 2 question which of the 2 headset would be prefered  if you play different games from mmo , rpg , fps. I dont just play FPS that is where my last confusion rides that some headsets are only really good for FPS. 

thanks


----------



## headphonesonly

stavros.m said:


> Hey thank everyone for the help and i have i have learned alot i have narrowed it down to the hd 598sr or the k7xx headphone and I think i am favoring the G6 over the gsx 1200 but not sure there yet. With a modmic 5.0. Last 2 question which of the 2 headset would be prefered  if you play different games from mmo , rpg , fps. I dont just play FPS that is where my last confusion rides that some headsets are only really good for FPS.
> 
> thanks


K7xx might be a better choice because it got a bit more bass and has a bigger soundstage.


----------



## mindbomb (Oct 25, 2018)

Seyumi said:


> With the vast knowledge in this thread, have we agreed on the best headphones you can possibly buy for PC gaming when money isn't a factor?  I'm talking about normal (production) headphones you can buy every day and not one-off limited edition $10k BS headphones that come out from time to time. I also don't need a mic.
> 
> I'm assuming it's the Sennheiser HD 800/800S from my current research.
> 
> ...



rtings has been doing some measurements on soundstage in headphones. For the purposes of gaming and virtual surround sound, I think the best idea is to have a PRIR that is close to flat (so it doesn't interfere with the virtual surround sound) . Surprisingly, the hd800s and hd700 don't do that, but the inexpensive audio technica ad700x and grado sr80e do.


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphonesonly said:


> K7xx might be a better choice because it got a bit more bass and has a bigger soundstage.



Indeed and the G6 might be enough amping for games biut for music with the K7xx you’ll want a better amp in the chain.


----------



## AppleheadMay

AIucardd said:


> Sorry, I'm being a bit dumb right now, you mean mine was good enough, so I should get the same, but rebranded (game one) headphone?
> If so, do you have some experience with Sennheiser GSP 500 (600, i think, is closed one, so not the best choice)? People are saying that they are basically the same as GAME ONE, but with better MIC. But people are saying the same thing about 360 and game one (not about the mic part tho)
> 
> 
> And thanks for such in depth explanation! I'll try this things out again! Maybe not in Tarkov tho, I think it's not supporting 5.1.



GSP500 is a nice improvement on the Game One, the better choice thus.
But have you read the very first post in this thread? It’s about the best and most informative post on this whole forum, I read it from top to bottom and enjoyed it as much as a good novel ...


----------



## illram (Oct 25, 2018)

I haven't been following the last few pages too closely, but if the question is the G6 for PC use: in my personal opinion, as far as $150 Creative products go, the G6 is inferior to the E5 purely for PC use. Much better sounding EQ software, more features (e.g. bluetooth and phone app), same 7.1 SBX, for the same price. I believe the internals are the same (same Cirrus Logic DAC, same Texas Instruments amp). If I were going PC only I'd opt for the E5 or the GSX1000, if you don't need line out. G6 is console only to me.


----------



## Lay.

mindbomb said:


> rtings has been doing some measurements on soundstage in headphones. For the purposes of gaming and virtual surround sound, I think the best idea is to have a PRIR that is close to flat (so it doesn't interfere with the virtual surround sound) . Surprisingly, the hd800s and hd700 don't do that, but the inexpensive audio technica ad700x and grado sr80e do.



From the rtings review "The soundstage of the SR80e is mediocre. Due to their on-ear design, the Grados don't interact with the pinna and don't activate its resonances. That's why the PRTF response is basically a flat line. This results in a soundstage that is perceived as small and located inside the listener's head."

I don't get why those would be the better headphones for virtual surround gaming.


----------



## AIucardd

AppleheadMay said:


> GSP500 is a nice improvement on the Game One, the better choice thus.
> But have you read the very first post in this thread? It’s about the best and most informative post on this whole forum, I read it from top to bottom and enjoyed it as much as a good novel ...


I did read fist post, maybe I just missed or misunderstood  something while reading (not my native language, not easy for me, sry  ) . My concerns is following. 
1. I'm considerin myself a competitive gamer, I'm not that picky about movies and music sound quality, especially bass (all kinds of rock and heavy metal for me). Mine sennheiser 363D plugged in _*asus xonar essence STX*_ was almost perfect for games (now, after reading this thread, I do realise, that mine ingame audio settings could mess with DH settings, that's why I just turned it off later. AND I had nothing to compare mine sennheisers to.). 
I wanna change my old *sennheiser 363D* and pick more competitive option if it's exists. From what I have read here, I really liked review of  *AKG K701*. I know, everybody saying that  *AD700* is better option for pure competetive, but phrase "_They also sound somewhat artificial, so don't expect accurate and realistic sounds coming from this headphone_." is a bit of turn off. 
Is it So much better (*AKG K701* I mean) than Game one (or *GSP 500* for that matter)? I got used to cool mic of sennheiser, but if it means to ditch it for better sound persition and soundstage, i wanna consider it. 
I reccomended this thread to my friend and he chose *Beyerdynamic DT99**0* 250 ohm and LOVED them. And in the review here was stated: "..._I happily sold the killer K701s as I saw no need to own anything for gaming after the 990s at the time_". So should I get *Beyerdynamic DT99**0* for 5.1/7.1 gaming then? Mine soundcard can supprot 250 ohm for shure. Whould be it better option sound wise than *sennihiser GSP 500*? 
OMG, I'm so confused .

Oh, important note, it's really difficult for me (in where I live) to just take headphones in the store and just listen for them (95% of them needed shipment from across the country). Sorry about that, this is mostly the reason I'm asking here about that, and I really glad here is so much people willing to help 

2. Probably should ask this part on "The Nameless Guide To PC Gaming Audio...", but worth a try, huh? I'm upgrading my pc (almost whole) and considering ditching mine *asus xonar essence STX. *I got the feeling that internal sound card is adding some buzz to my mic (I got it recorded even when mic was turned off), and, I heard that essense STX not the best choice for gaming. Sholud I get rid of it and get some external audio card? And if so, is it worth to check *Sennheiser GSX1000 *recomended in this thread ("_...and I think GSX  surround may be the best virtual surround out_". BUT *Sennheiser GSX1000 *has max 150OHM  headphones supprot, so no *Beyerdynamic DT99**0* 250 ohm for me then...


----------



## WhiteHartMart

AppleheadMay said:


> GSP500 is a nice improvement on the Game One, the better choice thus.
> But have you read the very first post in this thread? It’s about the best and most informative post on this whole forum, I read it from top to bottom and enjoyed it as much as a good novel ...



Just to provide a different angle to this (and to demonstrate just how ‘personal’ headphone choice is, I retained my Game One and sent the GSP500 back - if I was buying I’d save the cash and get the Game One. 

Really is no substitute for trying yourself if possible though.


----------



## mindbomb

Lay. said:


> From the rtings review "The soundstage of the SR80e is mediocre. Due to their on-ear design, the Grados don't interact with the pinna and don't activate its resonances. That's why the PRTF response is basically a flat line. This results in a soundstage that is perceived as small and located inside the listener's head."
> 
> I don't get why those would be the better headphones for virtual surround gaming.



So, with virtual surround sound, you get pinna effects already baked into the audio, and they change based on where objects in game are. With that headphone prtf, it's fixed regardless of object location, so I don't see why it would be helpful, and it might interfere with the other effects.

But with music, since it doesn't have pinna effects, it can help.


----------



## Tacanacy

Has anyone here used Sony MDR-HW700DS (on PS4)?
I normally game in stereo with HD800, but I sometimes use Creative X7 for virtual surround sound, and I wonder if there's anything better that works on PS4 that is not Dolby Headphone. 
I have Mobius, and the 3D audio produces an awfully harsh, hollow and tinny sound when the Room Ambience is set to 100%. It's not as terrible when it's at default (ca. 40%), but then there's barely any surround effect.


----------



## Lay.

mindbomb said:


> So, with virtual surround sound, you get pinna effects already baked into the audio, and they change based on where objects in game are. With that headphone prtf, it's fixed regardless of object location, so I don't see why it would be helpful, and it might interfere with the other effects.
> 
> But with music, since it doesn't have pinna effects, it can help.



Ok. Now I get the point in theory.

For the last 8 years that I have been playing FPS games with different headphones and virtual surround (20 years of FPS games but not with virtual surround).  The flatness of the PRTF response just doesn't correlate how I would rate the headphones that I have used for the virtual surround gaming. Imaging (direction), soundstage (distance), good mids and highs (for hearing footsteps etc.) are the factors for me. And of course the comfort.


----------



## AppleheadMay

WhiteHartMart said:


> Just to provide a different angle to this (and to demonstrate just how ‘personal’ headphone choice is, I retained my Game One and sent the GSP500 back - if I was buying I’d save the cash and get the Game One.
> 
> Really is no substitute for trying yourself if possible though.



Have to concur with that. I did the opposite with the GSP600 and Game Zero, got both in and sent the Zero back.
Indeed headphones are a personal choice and for gaming it depends on what you are looking for as well. 
I am more looking for immersion than positioning though you always will want a bit of both.


----------



## stavros.m

illram said:


> I haven't been following the last few pages too closely, but if the question is the G6 for PC use: in my personal opinion, as far as $150 Creative products go, the G6 is inferior to the E5 purely for PC use. Much better sounding EQ software, more features (e.g. bluetooth and phone app), same 7.1 SBX, for the same price. I believe the internals are the same (same Cirrus Logic DAC, same Texas Instruments amp). If I were going PC only I'd opt for the E5 or the GSX1000, if you don't need line out. G6 is console only to me.



By any chance did you try the GSX 1000 with a mic i was watching some youtube reviews and it seem to lower the quality of the mic. Wondering if the G6 or the E5 (Which i will google after this impact the mic clarity)

thanks


----------



## Vader2k (Oct 25, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The G6 has a new driver update. 10-19-18
> 
> *CLICK HERE*
> 
> I haven't tested it yet, and it doesn't say anything about fixing the settings issue, but perhaps t may have been a stealth fix. Doesn't hurt to download it and see.



So, I downloaded this last night.  On the driver details section under _What's New_, it says it "Fixes clicking/popping/crackling sound when playback 32bit or DSD format."  In my limited testing with the G6 so far, I had kept it in 32/96 and did notice an occasional digital chirping/bleeping distortion sound.  As such, I was hopeful this would improve that.  And yet, oddly, it seemed to occur a little bit more post-update.

For reference, I was testing only on PS4, but I was of course on PC first for the driver update and to make sure my settings stuck.  I also just had my SportaPros plugged into the headphone jack, so no line out in the chain.

I played a little bit of Rocket League as well as watched a couple things on YouTube and Netflix.  I heard the distortion a couple times on RL, a few times on YT, and oddly most frequently on Netflix.  I watched about 30 min of a show and it occurred at least 3 or 4 times.  I backed some of the sequences up to see if it would happen again in the same spot, and it didn't.

After that, I decided to just drop it down to 24/96 before I went to bed.  I'm eagerly awaiting to jump into RDR2 tonight and didn't want any audio distortion to mar the experience!


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 25, 2018)

as i sit here and keep reading others post, i wonder did i make a mistake and waste money with G6?!?!? Should just return and save $50 to get the G5 or should i exchange for E5. I only game on PC and play competitive FPS and Battle Royal games. What is the 24-bit/192kHz, 120dB on G5/E5 vs 32-bit/384kHz, 130dB on G6 mean!?!? also what about something like 
*Creative Sound Blaster E1 *this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J2JATL...d_r=51c83ae3-d875-11e8-8a27-e7c97784a407&th=1


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## stavros.m

Xspearo said:


> as i sit here and keep reading others post, i wonder did i make a mistake and waste money with G6?!?!? Should just return and save $50 to get the G5 or should i exchange for E5. I only game on PC and play competitive FPS and Battle Royal games. What is the 24-bit/192kHz, 120dB on G5/E5 vs 32-bit/384kHz, 130dB on G6 mean!?!? also what about something like
> *Creative Sound Blaster E1 *this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J2JATL...d_r=51c83ae3-d875-11e8-8a27-e7c97784a407&th=1



Do you plug the mic in the G6? How does it sound? Also would you know the difference between the Z line and the AE Series


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## Xspearo

stavros.m said:


> Do you plug the mic in the G6? How does it sound? Also would you know the difference between the Z line and the AE Series


G6 has a mic plug in on front. I guess it sounds good, people I play with havent said anything bad about how I sound. Z vs AE I think one is aimed towards gaming but I'm not sure. Maybe someone else wkth more knowledge will chime. in


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## stavros.m

headphonesonly said:


> K7xx might be a better choice because it got a bit more bass and has a bigger soundstage.



Thank you for your advise one more headset to put in the mix because i just found it new for less then 200$ CDN and it looks like a good one according to the first Page the DT 990, Thanks again and last question about headphones


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## Rhadamanthys (Oct 25, 2018)

stavros.m said:


> Hi just curious i was watching a review on the GSX and one of the issue was the mic became less natural did you notice that and how did it compare to the G5 thanks



I didn't test the mic myself, but none of my friends have complained online about mic quality. I've also been following the whole GSX thread on head-fi and I don't recall anyone mention it.


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## Mad Lust Envy

To anyone insterested, The G6 is currently 129.99 on Creative's site. Not bad for what you get at all.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

Note: This is likely going to be my final review until further notice.

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*Creative Aurvana Trio*





$149.99 MSRP (as of Oct 2018)
Where to buy:  *Creative, Amazon*



Spoiler:  Creative Aurvana Trio Review



Once again, I'd like to thank Creative for giving me the opportunity to test one of their products out.

Here is something relatively new for me. An IEM: The Creative Aurvana Trio (I'll shorten it to just calling it the Trio for the purpose of this review). A triple-driver hybrid in ear headphone, in which if you've known me long enough, you're likely aware that I'm not particularly fond of IEMs in general. Not because of any performance issues (far from it, actually), but because my sensitive ears just can't handle in ears for longer than a very brief period of time, regardless of how comfortable they are to everyone else.

Has this changed with the Trio? No, but I wanted to give the Trio a chance for those that may be used to IEMs in general, and may be looking a a great pair for their varied purposes. Thankfully, the Trio is unquestionably a solid headphone. I'm not going to pretend I know much about the technicalities of IEMs in general, or the difference between standard IEMs, and something like a triple driver hybrid.

Per Creative:

_Hybrid Triple-Driver System
At the heart of the Aurvana Trio is the hybrid triple-driver system. This allows the Aurvana Trio to deliver exceptionally pristine audio across the audio spectrum.

Balanced Armature Super Tweeter
Delivers detailed highs.

Balanced Armature Mid-Range Driver
Supports natural mid-range playback.

Bio-cellulose Dynamic Woofer
Delivers rich, deep, and accurate bass._

Take that as you will. I'm here for the sheer performance of the Trio first and foremost. You can rest assured, whatever method they're using, it works exceptionally well. I can only compare it to my experience with what I'm used to, and I definitely feel that they easily stand up to full sized headphones.


*Build Quality:*

As I'm not very experienced with IEMs in general, I tend to view them typically as small barrels with a tip, that's about it. Contrary to that, the Trio appears considerably more premium than some nondescript standard IEM design. I certainly wouldn't mistake the Trio for any other IEMs I've ever seen.

The main body is made of a rubbery looking plastic , with some metallic silver-ish accents. The nozzle with the ear tips is placed at the far right and left of the face, and are angled to better fit your ear canals. From memory, I'd say the housing and nozzles are quite big compared to some standard fare IEMs, so make note of that, if you are used to smaller IEMs.

There is no driver flex to speak of, thankfully, so don't worry about any crackling noise coming from the Trio when inserting/removing them from your ears. There is none.

The cables are detachable via the MMCX connectors, so if you ever wanted to upgrade, it would be a pretty simple affair. The cables themselves are fully braided from the headphone to the plug. The cable is 1.2m long, and unlike my tried and tested Koss clip on headphones, the cables are long enough to put my source device in my pocket without feeling like I'm applying tension. I wish more 'portable' headphones were at least this length. They're either too short, or too long. To me, the Trio is the perfect length.

I'd say the cables are on the thin and light side, though the braiding helps them not feel fragile or flimsy. The braiding keeps them from twisting and tangling. Even bunching the cables up to fit the Trio into its small case is no issue, and the cables unwind with ease, with no 'memory' in the cable afterwards. I'm a big fan, and based on those aspects alone, I wouldn't ever feel a need to upgrade.

The 3.5mm TRRS plug is angled at 90 degrees with a thin housing and generous strain relief on the cable side. I don't see there being a problem with full insertion of the plug with most phone cases.

The right side cable is where the in-line mic is placed. It is small and unobtrusive, with a single button for answering phone calls, or pause/playing your music. It doesn't add any noticeable weight to the right side cable.

Cable noise is moderately low. It's not completely quiet when moving about, but it easily gets mostly drowned out by whatever you're listening to. I have definitely heard much worse, and don't find it an issue here.

As a final note, I don't have any problems with the build quality of the Trio. I feel the ruggedness and durability factor seem high, and are good enough to satisfy the vast majority of people interested in the Trio.


*Accessories:*

Small carrying case - A small, black case with a magnetic flap. I like the small size and dimensions, as it will easily fit my pockets, though I do with the inner area was just a little bigger. I like to wind the Trio's cable and stuff it in first, followed by the Trio itself, that way I can just grab the Trio and the cable will unwind itself as I take it out of the case. Right now, the Trio sticks out a bit from the case. If it were just a little more open, it would all fit in perfectly. A minor pet peeve, nothing major. It is a great case.

Airplane adapter - Not much to say here. If you feel like listening to whatever in flight movie is playing, the adapter should allow you to plug in the Trio. Simple as that.

Ear tips - The bag has 2 extra pairs of silicone tips (small, large in addition to the medium sized tips on the Trio itself), and 1 pair of foam tips that are on the medium but long side. I would've been overjoyed if they added a smaller pair of foam tips. I greatly prefer foam tips over silicone, though in this case, the foam tips are a bit too big for my ears. Thankfully, I didn't note any sound balance differences between the silicone and foam tips.


*Comfort:*

This is an area I don't exactly feel comfortable in addressing, as I just don't find the vast majority of IEMs comfortable. It's hard to gauge where the Trio stands in terms of comfort, as my experiences have almost never been positive, outside of things like the JVC marshmallows, and some AKG IEMs that came with my phone.

What I will say is that for an IEMs, I can wear the Trio for a solid 30 minutes to an hour without feeling like I need a break. It's not bad in that regard. My ear canals get 'itchy' and sore after awhile, and need a considerable break, though this isn't exclusive to the Trio.

In terms of weight, I don't have much to compare it with, but I'd say the Trio is light enough to essentially feel like you're not wearing anything, compared to everything else I'm accustomed to. Certainly not heavy enough to feel like it's slipping out of my ears at any given time.

The Trio comes with silicone tips of various sizes, and I found that only the smallest size fit me well enough without too much pain. The others are simply too big for my ear canals, as are the foam tips.

Really, take my claims of comfort with a grain of salt, as IEMs just aren't in my area of expertise. You may or may not have differing opinions, especially if you're accustomed to IEMs.


*Noise Control:*

As an IEM, I wouldn't expect any real sound leak to the outside world, and the Trio is no exception. Anyone within a few feet from you shouldn't really hear anything other than a very, very low amount of higher frequencies. Certainly not enough to wake up a significant other if you happen to be listening to something right next to them.

As for isolating outside noises, it attenuates outside noises well enough to not be a major problem in any regard, especially if you're actually listening to something.


*Sound:*

IEMs typically have a considerably different presentation of sound compared to full sized headphones or even on-ears. It's not an easy comparison, due to the much tighter head space. That aside, IEMs have their own strengths. The Trio is no different. While I can't be sure what a triple driver hybrid design brings to the table compared to a more standard IEM design, I can for certain say the Trio has some excellent sonic traits.


*Bass:*

The bass on the Trio is what can be described as deep, enveloping, and omnipotent. It clearly tilts the Trio into a warm, bassy headphone, and as such, will favor those who prefer a tilt in that direction. It is undeniably subterranean and cavernous, easily hitting the lowest notes even at 20hz. There is a substantial amount of rumble and energy near the 40hz range (my favorite area of bass), and a good sense of impact even at 60hz and above.

The bass is woolly and thick, which I consider about average in terms of speed and clarity, so it may not suit those who prefer a more linear, more articulate, and speedy tone. It isn't one note, nor overly sloppy, but it isn't the tightest bass I've heard.

Personally, I do like the depth and enveloping nature of the Trio's bass, though I do feel it could stand to be a bit quicker and more articulate. In non-bass heavy tracks, the warmth and tonal characteristics of the bass won't intrude on the sound. On bass heavy tracks, you'll definitely note that the lead is definitely the bass, with everything else playing second fiddle. For my preference, I'd say a slight reduction in bass volume would've made it a more enticing headphone.

Is it a basshead headphone? I wouldn't say it's for bassheads only, but it's definitely leaning on romanticizing bass a bit more than those looking for detail orientation. It can still do other things well, as I'll note below, but bass is definitely here to play.

The bass energy can steer focus away from other areas of sound. Steering focus away does not mean smother, or veil. It literally means that while the midrange and upper ranges remain clear and satisfying, the bass is just more of the spotlight, if there is considerable attention placed there. Because of this, the Trio may actually make a better headphone for non-bass heavy uses rather than FOR it.


*Midrange to Treble:*

Second to the bass is the midrange, which is very well balanced, and tonally organic. It is smooth throughout most ranges, with plenty of presence in the lower midrange at 200hz-400hz. From then on, it remains nice and even, up to about 2khz which then starts a rapid climb up to about 4.5-5khz as the highest peak and prominence on the Trio. Past that into the treble range, it levels out and begins dipping at 6khz to about 8khz with a gentle rise to 10khz, which does not trend towards hot or sibilant. I could hear the sparkle all the way up to around 14khz.

If playing music that doesn't focus on on the lower ranges, the midrange and treble are crisp and focused, with a natural tonality.


*Soundstage:*

With no processing - I never truly expect any IEM to have a fantastic soundstage just from my limited experiences, and I wouldn't say the Trio is any exception. Mind you, I honestly can't gauge soundstage for IEMs with any confidence. I don't really put much stock into soundstage when listening to music or normal media use, with the exception of how well instruments and other sound cues are placed and separated within that soundstage. The imaging capabilities on the Trio are quite excellent. I have heard a few headphones that smear details and sound cues together. The Trio does a fine job in allowing sounds to have their own areas within the virtual head space.

With virtual surround processing - This is where I'm particularly blown away. Simply put, the Trio is one of the very few headphones in all my experiences where it could fool me into thinking I'm listening to speakers. Particularly with something like Sennheiser's GSX surround, I was awestruck with how well the Trio throws out a virtual surround soundstage. The Trio's imaging and separation of sounds is quite fantastic. What this means, is that simply based on that, the Trio would make a very, very solid headphone for gaming positional accuracy.


*Clarity:*

It's kind of a hard to talk about the Trio's clarity, because the bass isn't the type to muddy up and veil the rest of the sound. Its weakness is that the bass is potent enough to take away focus from the excellent traits the midrange and treble have. When you're listening to non-bass heavy media, the Trio is a tonally warm-natural but clear headphone. The midrange is present if a bit on the flat range in terms of forwardness, with exception to the peak at around 4.5khz which is pronounced and sharp. The treble is nice and shimmery without sibilance, hotness, or piercing nature that hurt other, very good headphones. So I'd say that clarity is a strength for the Trio particularly on non-bass heavy music genres.


*Amplification:*


No amplification needed
Fast, analytical solid state recommended

At the time of this review, I did not have any serious headphone amplifier, but thankfully I did not find the Trio to be anywhere near reliant of such. Even the meager amplification of the GSX1000 powered the Trio with plenty of volume headroom. The Creative G6 even more so with its vasts amounts of volume headroom for even harder to drive headphones. Even off a Nintendo Switch and a Galaxy S9, I found no issues with getting enough volume out of the Trio. Volume isn't everything, but I didn't find the Trio to sound starved for power in any occasion. If you're going to amplify the Trio, I believe that an amplifier focused on details and speed would suit the Trio.


*Gaming:*

As previously stated in the soundstage section, the Trio has excellent imaging and positional accuracy. Instrument separation, and sharp, concise audio cues already make it a potent headphone for gaming purposes. Thankfully, it holds up in other aspects for gaming as well. The well balanced midrange and extended treble lead to a mostly pleasant and balanced sound for most forms of gaming. The guttural growl and rumble of the bass makes casual gaming incredibly immersive and fun, and while something such as a constant drone of bass frequencies may be a slight detriment in other areas for clarity, gaming rarely has examples that mimic that issue. I can't ever say the Trio's bass truly becomes a problem in gaming for the overwhelming majority of the time.


*Microphone:*



From what I can hear, the mic picks up my voice just fine. The tonality is on the thicker, warmer side. There is external noise pick up as well. Nothing major for taking calls or casual chatting, though I wouldn't use it for competitive gaming or most forms of online gaming where the external noise will likely drive people crazy. The noise itself is minor, but it is constant. My recommendation is that if you're going to use the Trio to game, don't use it for chatting while online gaming. For sending messages, it's perfectly adequate.


*Personal Recommendations:*

It may not come as a surprise to anyone, but I do find the Trio is suited to a variety of purposes. It is an excellent headphone for portable use. I'm particularly fond of the Trio for my Nintendo Switch. While I use my Koss PortaPro wireless for phone use, I would have no problem switching it out for the Trio if I ever left the PortaPro at home. In this case, the Trio actually blocks out external noises, which may or may not be a benefit depending on situation. I personally like to be able to hear my surroundings, so the Trio isn't ideal for me. However, if you're, for example, in a train or plane, noise isolation is always beneficial.

For active on the go use like working out, I do feel the Trio is a great choice, as it's one of the very few IEMs I have used that doesn't slowly creep and fall off my ears with some minor head movement. Everyone's ears are different, but I do think this is one of the safer choices for that.

For home use, the Trio is also an excellent performer, though I personally would almost always prefer to use a full sized headphone for serious listening sessions.

As for actual media, the Trio excels for things such as movies, casual gaming, and most music. I'm at odds with myself when it comes to music genres, as the bass is quite potent and can be overly so with bass heavy music to my ears. On the other side, it makes bass heavy music even more immersive, and can inject some flavor to other genres that may benefit from it. It's a double edged sword. This isn't an exclusive problem with the Trio, but with any headphone that may have potent bass.

As stated in the gaming section, the Trio is a great choice. It's detailed, lively, and fun. It absolutely shines with virtual surround processing devices with its excellent imaging and positional accuracy.


*Likes and Dislikes:*

*Likes:*

Design
Detachable MMCX braided cable
Great treble range
Performance with virtual surround processors

*Dislikes:*

The bass could stand to be dialed back a little
Peaky 4.5khz range
In line mic button is a bit mushy (could be more clicky for a more consistent button press)


*Final Impressions:*

The Creative Aurvana Trio was more or less an experiment for me, seeing as I'm simply not and will never be an IEM kind of guy. That being said, I am thankful that my first IEM tested in many years ended up being a really good one, despite it perhaps being a little heavier on the bass than my typical preferences. Perhaps it's simply how much my tastes have changed throughout the years. I was a mild basshead for a very long time, and as time went on, my ears adjusted and adapted to a more warm-neutral tonal balance. I still do love a bit of emphasis in the bass, mind you, and the Trio is 9/10 of the way there. Perhaps with a successor to the Trio in the future, with a slightly mellower bass range, it could have a sound signature that would perfectly fit my tastes.

There is an excellent headphone here despite my minor complaint of its bass omnipotence. I am very, very satisfied in nearly every other regard. The tonality, the upper end extension, the engaging and fun signature for casual gaming and movies, there really isn't much to dislike here.





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## Yethal

illram said:


> I haven't been following the last few pages too closely, but if the question is the G6 for PC use: in my personal opinion, as far as $150 Creative products go, the G6 is inferior to the E5 purely for PC use. Much better sounding EQ software, more features (e.g. bluetooth and phone app), same 7.1 SBX, for the same price. I believe the internals are the same (same Cirrus Logic DAC, same Texas Instruments amp). If I were going PC only I'd opt for the E5 or the GSX1000, if you don't need line out. G6 is console only to me.


How are Bluetooth and phone app relevant for PC use?


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## Clean6eR

yay g6 just turned up! 32bit 384 or whatever works with no pops or crackles,

the mic doesnt record while in direct mode which is a shame, but the monitor does work while in it!

the mic monitor is pretty good, a step up than what i had with the x7, having control over it on the device is great!

just switched it to the ps4 and i loose ability to use direct mode at all when using ps4, but mic monitor works a treat still so im pretty happy with this device, does what i wanted it to and pretty well.

when my friends are on later i can test if the chat on ps4 gets put through the surround processor like it does on the x7, that drove me insane having them sound like they were in a tin can, its why i got the artis pro game dac, thats not too bad. im hoping the g6 doesn't then i might start using surround for gaming again.


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## silverthornne (Oct 26, 2018)

Yethal said:


> How are Bluetooth and phone app relevant for PC use?



Chiming in because I own an E5 that I bring to my job and an X7 that I keep at home. The whole E5 and X7 supporting Bluetooth are game changers for me as I can have rich, immersive audio while gaming or listening to my music library on my PC while also having a connection to my phone, allowing me to switch to my podcasts on my phone whenever I want or to take a phone call at any moment, all the while using my favorite headphones as the X7's and E5's mics are more than acceptable to use for phone calls. So I usually have my custom in-ear monitors plugged in to the E5 at work while listening to my music library and am able to take any phone calls without having to seek the phone, switch headsets, etc. It seems simple, but it's such a convenient setup that the first thing that I thought when I saw the G6 announced was "where's the Bluetooth support?" When at home, it is just convenient to be able to take any calls while gaming with awesome sound quality. No need to pause the game, look for the phone or any of the like. I use a pair of HD6XX at home and I keep them on all the time as the X7 takes care of call audio, call mic, PC/Console audio, and PC/PS4 mic.


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## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> To anyone insterested, The G6 is currently 129.99 on Creative's site. Not bad for what you get at all.



Really?  I'm still seeing it for $149.99.  Is there a coupon code or something?


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## illram

Yethal said:


> How are Bluetooth and phone app relevant for PC use?


Control the app via your phone. It's an additional convenience.


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## Clean6eR

hi,

just played for a while with friends using the g6, i had to unplug it and switch back to my mixer, the voice monitoring has the same delay as the x7 which makes it unusable for me with my highly isolating headset.

for my money two best gaming things are audio mixers and the steelseries game dac


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## Xspearo

Clean6eR said:


> hi,
> 
> just played for a while with friends using the g6, i had to unplug it and switch back to my mixer, the voice monitoring has the same delay as the x7 which makes it unusable for me with my highly isolating headset.
> 
> for my money two best gaming things are audio mixers and the steelseries game dac


Are you on console? I havent had this issue.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Vader2k said:


> Really?  I'm still seeing it for $149.99.  Is there a coupon code or something?


I'm an idiot. That's for the Aurvana Trio. MY BAD.


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## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm an idiot. That's for the Aurvana Trio. MY BAD.



Ah, alright. Not a problem, it happens.


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## Clean6eR

Xspearo said:


> Are you on console? I havent had this issue.


hi,

_Yea on console (ps4) and on pc. i wasn't using any of the processing or scout mode rubbish in order to try to reduce the level of processing its little a1xx chip had to do (or whatever there little mixing chip is called)_

when i wasn't gaming and i first got it i tried the monitor with no other music or sound and it seemed like it was instant monitor but when gaming with my friends it was extremely obvious to me. many people can adjust to the delay that the surround processing does when its turned on and i can get used to that after time but when i first turn it on that level of delay is also very noticeable to me.

i tried on console with the optical cable and all audio going only via that cable and also with all audio going only via USB. both had sidetone delay sadly. The x7 i found had the exact same issue, as did there zxr sound card, the only other sound card by creative i own that doesn't do it is the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty. that had zero delay monitoring.

i used to use ath adg1x and hd800s with a mod mic 4 uni on the x7 and turned the monitor off entirely and that was awesome but since i have been told my noise level is annoying i have had to switch to a VERY isolating setup and i need monitor else i end up screaming!

*mixers/processors that have no delay on monitoring*:

Astro mix amp, the TR is really quite good but monitoring on them is the quietest of the mixers i own. (hd800 show the weakness of the audio quality on this amp clearly)
Turtle beach tac (nice loud monitor but with noise gate so its not disturbing hiss with your monitoring) hd800 VERY much show a processed and metalic sound from this source, also sensitive headphones show a underlying hiss on all audio from this unit which is sad
Triton ax pro amp is actually really quite good all round, the surround processing is a little errr echoy/processed seeming compared to newer algorythims. and all the cables make it very spagetti western themed!
Steelseries amp pro, one of the best, sound quality is solid, its quite, the surround is even good on it (dtsxv2) i got mine with the headset which is also an ok headset but it means it didnt come with a convertor cable to use any headphones with it.

any prosumer mixer or digital interface seems to have zero latency monitoring on them and i have found that mackie seem to make ones with more powerful hp out and quieter mic pre-amps when compared to ebay Chinese ones and Beringher ones.


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## Lay.

With Astro MixAmp Pro TR the mic monitoring is Ok for me. With G6 it is way too loud for me. I did not even thought about the delay. I just turned it off with open headphones and have not missed it after that.


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## Clean6eR

Lay. said:


> With Astro MixAmp Pro TR the mic monitoring is Ok for me. With G6 it is way too loud for me. I did not even thought about the delay. I just turned it off with open headphones and have not missed it after that.


i dont think monitor is needed on open headsets but did you know if you push the volume knob in on the g6 and keep it held down the light goes from white to red, when its red you can turn the mic monitor up and down to suit, i REALLY liked that feature. tapping it once disables it which i guess you must have known... i dont think through what i type ....


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## Lay.

Clean6eR said:


> i dont think monitor is needed on open headsets but did you know if you push the volume knob in on the g6 and keep it held down the light goes from white to red, when its red you can turn the mic monitor up and down to suit, i REALLY liked that feature. tapping it once disables it which i guess you must have known... i dont think through what i type ....



If only it would adjust the monitoring but it will adjust the mic loudness too. If I adjust the monitoring quiet enough for me, my friends complain that they can't hear me


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## Clean6eR

Lay. said:


> If only it would adjust the monitoring but it will adjust the mic loudness too. If I adjust the monitoring quiet enough for me, my friends complain that they can't hear me


good point, if your a pc player you can change them independently in the software but then the knob on the device will still control both in that out of sync state.


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## Lay.

I play with both PC and PS4. Mostly with PS4 nowadays. With HD800S there is really no need for mic monitoring so I'm ok with this limitation on PS4


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## Yethal

illram said:


> Control the app via your phone. It's an additional convenience.


It's already plugged to the PC, isn't it more convenient to change the settings using mouse and keyboard on a big screen with a mouse and keyboard instead of tiny smartphone screen? I mean, unless you're running Linux (in which case the phone app is the only way to got) you can just install the desktop app and do everything from there.


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## Xspearo (Oct 27, 2018)

So I was confused on which sound blaster e5, g5, and g6 to get. I only play on PC and only game(FPS and battle royal). I come from astro tr mix amp. After getting rid of Astro tr I bought the G6, and I have actually been pretty happy with it. Going through this post and reading people's replies I see people say E5 or the G5 is a better value, so I ended up buying the E5 and G5 also to try. I first tried E5, for me I hated the software and interface. To me the eqs are lacking options compared to G6. I dont know why but I couldn't figure out why I wasn't hearing footsteps and why sound was like dry and muffled. I couldn't distinctly hear footsteps like with the G6 eq settings. I guess Bluetooth is cool but my motherboard has Bluetooth and I nvr used it. For the G5 I had the same issue, I couldn't figure out sound issue. I just think compared to the new G6 software and interface is just better to me. I find it easier to navigate with a lot more options.


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## illram (Oct 27, 2018)

Yethal said:


> It's already plugged to the PC, isn't it more convenient to change the settings using mouse and keyboard on a big screen with a mouse and keyboard instead of tiny smartphone screen? I mean, unless you're running Linux (in which case the phone app is the only way to got) you can just install the desktop app and do everything from there.


If you're playing a game or doing something else you don't have to alt-tab out to change settings on the fly, just use the phone.



Xspearo said:


> So I was confused on which sound blaster e5, g5, and g6 to get. I only play on PC and only game(FPS and battle royal). I come from astro tr mix amp. After getting rid of Astro tr I bought the G6, and I have actually been pretty happy with it. Going through this post and reading people's replies I see people say E5 or the G5 is a better value, so I ended up buying the E5 and G5 also to try. I first tried E5, for me I hated the software and interface. To me the eqs are lacking options compared to G6. I dont know why but I couldn't figure out why I wasn't hearing footsteps and why sound was like dry and muffled. I couldn't distinctly hear footsteps like with the G6 eq settings. I guess Bluetooth is cool but my motherboard has Bluetooth and I nvr used it. For the G5 I had the same issue, I couldn't figure out sound issue. I just think compared to the new G6 software and interface is just better to me. I find it easier to navigate with a lot more options.


That's odd, I noticed no difference between the two for soundwhoring. I also play FPS and battle royale. The E5 also has all the EQ settings the G6 has. It arguably also has better surround options as you can dial it in precisely like the X7, rather than selecting between 3 settings. 

Did you try the EQ on both? I mean changing the various frequencies. TheG6's equalizer audio quality is noticeably terrible vs. the E5. It sounds like the E3. It is the big difference between the two in my opinion. It's so bad I feel like they are going to have to update it. Try turning up the bass on each for example. The E5 is way cleaner. (I know you don't want a lot of bass for footsteps but it's most obviously noticeable quality difference. All of the EQ settings sound worse though, not just the bass.)


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 27, 2018)

illram said:


> If you're playing a game or doing something else you don't have to alt-tab out to change settings on the fly, just use the phone.
> 
> 
> That's odd, I noticed no difference between the two for soundwhoring. I also play FPS and battle royale. The E5 also has all the EQ settings the G6 has. It arguably also has better surround options as you can dial it in precisely like the X7, rather than selecting between 3 settings.
> ...



I guess with me having a extra screen to have all my monitor apps like cpu and gpu temp, speed, etc: TS or discord: and sound blaster app I dont see a problem with tabbing over and selecting changes.

I'll be honest I'm not good with knowing what frequencies are what, but I tried to adjust it on both E5 and G5 to how I saw it on the G6. I really didnt think there would be much of a sound difference since there pretty much all same inside beside little things. In those little increments on E5 and G6 I didnt really see a difference in surround adjustments like on G6 going from wide to ultra. Also G6 has alot more game profile options for EQs than E5 and G5. For me on G6 EQs it's easy for me to use slider that's on bottem to move the bass or treble sliders to increase and/or decrease them. I know treble will bring out footsteps more so I bring that to like a 4 to 6 and bass to a 2. I was also considering buying a X7 since I have a $200 Amazon gift card but now since I know its same interface as E5 I'm afraid I wont like it.

Maybe post your settings and I can try again. Do you use stereo, 5.1, or 7.1?


----------



## bwuak (Oct 28, 2018)

Hi, I'm new here. I'd looking for headphones mainly for gaming. I enjoy music as well but no genre in particular. Speakers micca mb42x, headsets siberia v2 and hyperx cloud. I don't like the cloud's bass, the soundstage isn't accurate at all and the sound separation is weak. Siberia v2's sound is more accurate and bass is more enjoyable to me. I'm looking at k702, hd 598, ad700x, superlux 668b. I would prefer being able to drive the heaphone with onboard audio for now.

I mostly want accurate sound/soundstage/sound separation.

Are rtings review even worth looking at? According to their data ad700x looks pretty bad even it's soundstage, and a g433 is top closed back headphone for critical listening?

Edit: I have msi z97 gaming 5 motherboard, it claims to support 600 ohm headphones and not much information about power, but I think there's some kind of boost with sound blaster.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone just a question for gaming I was reading the review over and over from the first page and it might  be my lack of sleep lately but cannot decide for the dt990 would it be better pro or premium. It seems the premium is for house use and the pro for studio. Also what ohms should I be looking at. They way I am understanding the 250ohms is the way to go but I am getting recommendations on reddit to go for the 32ohm. Again this will be only for gaming.

Thanks again


----------



## AIucardd

Ok, I think I finally decide it. I am gonna take gsx 1000 and use it with my 363d for now. Later I'll buy gsp500 (I love those type of headsets! Great mic, cable and volume controll).

BUT. Should I consider something up to 150ohm for gaming with gsx1000? HD700, for example twice the price of gsp500, but i don't feel it's worth it. Maybe there is other options? And again, are they worth it or I can gust stick with gsp500


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## z1ggy (Oct 29, 2018)

So I already plan to get X2HR's for "fun" casual gaming, say the new COD. But for competitive CSGO or any other games where footsteps and imaging in particular are very important, I feel like there's better. From what I saw, HD800 would be to absolute best money could buy right now as far as that particular thing is concerned. Are there any others to consider from a value standpoint? Again, I feel like I want the best possible imaging for the $$, and the most clear/precise mids/treb. Only thing I worry is with these upper echelon cans is that soundstage will be too wide...

I see the OP in the guide recommends quite a few at 8+/10 for gaming, but I don't think I see these in particular being reviewed. From what I can see from an analytical standpoint, these would be two of the best to fit my needs. What's crazy is he lists the AD700 as 10/10 for comp... but I own these and I dont find this to be the case. With playing Fortnite, I often times can't tell if a person is below me or above me. Left and right is obvious, but anywhere in between is a mystery. Also, I found a website which measured mathmatically the ability to image, and AD700's ranked far below  and 800s.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/imaging


----------



## bwuak

z1ggy said:


> So I already plan to get X2HR's for "fun" casual gaming, say the new COD. But for competitive CSGO or any other games where footsteps and imaging in particular are very important, I feel like there's better. From what I saw, HD800 would be to absolute best money could buy right now as far as that particular thing is concerned. Are there any others to consider from a value standpoint? Again, I feel like I want the best possible imaging for the $$, and the most clear/precise mids/treb. Only thing I worry is with these upper echelon cans is that soundstage will be too wide...
> 
> I see the OP in the guide recommends quite a few at 8+/10 for gaming, but I don't think I see these in particular being reviewed. From what I can see from an analytical standpoint, these would be two of the best to fit my needs. What's crazy is he lists the AD700 as 10/10 for comp... but I own these and I dont find this to be the case. With playing Fortnite, I often times can't tell if a person is below me or above me. Left and right is obvious, but anywhere in between is a mystery. Also, I found a website which measured mathmatically the ability to image, and AD700's ranked far below  and 800s.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/imaging


Really? Do you use any software/sound card or anything with the ad700? Also for budget there would be hd 598 sr and a step above would be k702 but these would be harder to drive. Both score fairly higher than ad700s but I seriously doubt rtings rating mean much when it comes to soundstage in game, but I could be wrong. According to their scores we might as well all go to gaming headset, even for critical listening....


----------



## z1ggy

bwuak said:


> Really? Do you use any software/sound card or anything with the ad700? Also for budget there would be hd 598 sr and a step above would be k702 but these would be harder to drive. Both score fairly higher than ad700s but I seriously doubt rtings rating mean much when it comes to soundstage in game, but I could be wrong. According to their scores we might as well all go to gaming headset, even for critical listening....


I use the RAZR software and I have a good gaming mobo so no sound card needed. Running off a modi/magni also. According to the spec sheet, the Magni should be plenty of power even for 300ohm cans. Not sure if I'll get any noise as I have 0% experience driving anything but low expedience stuff on this set up so no idea what volume knov turned up 60% would do. 

I guess as far as value goes... the 800's might only give me 10% better imaging qualities which perhaps isn't worth it just for that alone. Wonder if the implementation of the footstep feature has been changed in Fortnite since I last played? All I know is that I personally had an impossible time telling if steps were above or below me the last time I played. For CSGO... it was just different. I remember going back to CSGO after months of Fortnite only and being like wow What am I hearing right now?? The new 3D sound update Valve put in was either massively different or just plain old bad compared to Fortnite is all I remember thinking. But at that point I don't think Fortnite had put in the update to footsteps being more audible, etc.


----------



## bwuak

z1ggy said:


> I use the RAZR software and I have a good gaming mobo so no sound card needed. Running off a modi/magni also. According to the spec sheet, the Magni should be plenty of power even for 300ohm cans. Not sure if I'll get any noise as I have 0% experience driving anything but low expedience stuff on this set up so no idea what volume knov turned up 60% would do.
> 
> I guess as far as value goes... the 800's might only give me 10% better imaging qualities which perhaps isn't worth it just for that alone. Wonder if the implementation of the footstep feature has been changed in Fortnite since I last played? All I know is that I personally had an impossible time telling if steps were above or below me the last time I played. For CSGO... it was just different. I remember going back to CSGO after months of Fortnite only and being like wow What am I hearing right now?? The new 3D sound update Valve put in was either massively different or just plain old bad compared to Fortnite is all I remember thinking. But at that point I don't think Fortnite had put in the update to footsteps being more audible, etc.


Can you try playing without the razer software, maybe that's the problem. I'm considering buying ad700x the most right now.


----------



## z1ggy

Sure, I will try to play both CSGO and Fortnite tonight for a little while without Razr running. I'd love for this to solve my issue! Then I only need to buy the X2's for "fun" gaming where I don't care about precise locations and just want to hear things go BOOOM ^__^ (AD700's don't do much of that).


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 29, 2018)

If your talking the


z1ggy said:


> So I already plan to get X2HR's for "fun" casual gaming, say the new COD. But for competitive CSGO or any other games where footsteps and imaging in particular are very important, I feel like there's better. From what I saw, HD800 would be to absolute best money could buy right now as far as that particular thing is concerned. Are there any others to consider from a value standpoint? Again, I feel like I want the best possible imaging for the $$, and the most clear/precise mids/treb. Only thing I worry is with these upper echelon cans is that soundstage will be too wide...
> 
> I see the OP in the guide recommends quite a few at 8+/10 for gaming, but I don't think I see these in particular being reviewed. From what I can see from an analytical standpoint, these would be two of the best to fit my needs. What's crazy is he lists the AD700 as 10/10 for comp... but I own these and I dont find this to be the case. With playing Fortnite, I often times can't tell if a person is below me or above me. Left and right is obvious, but anywhere in between is a mystery. Also, I found a website which measured mathmatically the ability to image, and AD700's ranked far below  and 800s.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/imaging



Your saying fun/casual gaming for the new COD. I'm guessing you only play zombies because either MP or Blackout your going to want that  precision.

I also have a good gaming MB. I have a Asus ROG Strix Z370-G that claims it powers up to 600ohms but headset(K7XX) still doesn't get loud enough and even if so I find the louder it is the more so of the fine details get missed.


----------



## z1ggy

So my point is I know that I can't get a fun headphone that will also be extremely precise with really good imaging. By all accounts, AD700's do image very well, but they have virtually no bass and I'm sure there's a better "fun" experience to be had with V shaped designs (thus the X2's). My initial thought was to get the best image during intense comps would be to splurge on Hd880S or similar. However, based on above, maybe I need to see if turning the RAZR software off will make my aforementioned sound location issues go away and I won't need to spend $1200+. I could keep my AD700's for comp modes and then pug in X2's for when I'm in casual death matches, zombies, whatever. Dota2, Team Fortress, etc footsteps don't really matter. I want head rattling explosions and a mega wide sound stage.


----------



## illram

Massdrop is coming out with the Massdrop X Hifiman Edition XX. Ridiculous Massdrop naming conventions aside it's a $599 Edition X v2 which maybe isn't a bad deal (if you already live in la la Land where $600 headphones can ever be considered "not a bad deal" which is where I somehow ended up).

Anyway I know @mbyrnes has these and loves them for games, specifically vs the HD800. Anyone else tried these out for gaming with virtual surround? Every planar I have ever tried has been great. The 400i and HE560 are some of my favorite gaming headphones as far as imaging and detail go, something about the artificial sound you get with VSS just "works" with these cans. Curious if anyone has any impressions.


----------



## HairyHook

illram said:


> Massdrop is coming out with the Massdrop X Hifiman Edition XX. Ridiculous Massdrop naming conventions aside it's a $599 Edition X v2 which maybe isn't a bad deal (if you already live in la la Land where $600 headphones can ever be considered "not a bad deal" which is where I somehow ended up).
> 
> Anyway I know @mbyrnes has these and loves them for games, specifically vs the HD800. Anyone else tried these out for gaming with virtual surround? Every planar I have ever tried has been great. The 400i and HE560 are some of my favorite gaming headphones as far as imaging and detail go, something about the artificial sound you get with VSS just "works" with these cans. Curious if anyone has any impressions.


I'm on the same boat. I have never tried the edition X and I wonder how are they for gaming


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> Yep. I was in the party chat while trying to change the Game/Chat balance.  If I remember correctly, you can also access the option through party chat.



You may have had this answered already (apologies if so).  Got a G6 last week and had a look at this last night.  I have my G6 connected by Optical and USB, in the PS4 sound settings I set the G6 to Input Device but Output device to TV/Amp - this then allows chat/game balance options to be accessible on the PS4 menu when in party chat.  Only thing I haven't really checked yet is if this has an impact on the main audio from a surround processing point of view?


----------



## Clean6eR

WhiteHartMart said:


> You may have had this answered already (apologies if so).  Got a G6 last week and had a look at this last night.  I have my G6 connected by Optical and USB, in the PS4 sound settings I set the G6 to Input Device but Output device to TV/Amp - this then allows chat/game balance options to be accessible on the PS4 menu when in party chat.  Only thing I haven't really checked yet is if this has an impact on the main audio from a surround processing point of view?


it does
When you output the chat and the main audio via optical it all enters the g6 through the same port, the chat audio is mixed into it, if you enable scout mode the chat audio will also be processed by it. 

if in the devices menu options you output to the g6 and not the tv it will enter the g6 on effectively a different channel. 

what you could do is switch to that setup and then output only chat audio in that menu. turn the volume in that menu down to the lowest then go load up a game, set the volume on the g6 so your comfy with it. then go back to the devices menu and crank up that volume slider to suit how loud you like your chat. this way you have game audio on optical and chat on usb and a certain level of mixing ability.

there is nothing wrong with the way you have it set now though if you don't mind surround getting applied to chat audio too, the optical out is higher quality than the usb out i find when toggling between the two and listening to a music blu ray (spotify on ps4 sounds like TOTAL trash when you are listening for quality, i worked out for the first time the ps4 doesn't support cds because of this!)


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Clean6eR said:


> it does
> When you output the chat and the main audio via optical it all enters the g6 through the same port, the chat audio is mixed into it, if you enable scout mode the chat audio will also be processed by it.
> 
> if in the devices menu options you output to the g6 and not the tv it will enter the g6 on effectively a different channel.
> ...



Thanks for the explanation - I think I can tolerate the processing on the chat just for the convenience of easy chat/game mix control 

Glad the Spotify audio issue isn't just me - I've moaned to them on many occasions as it sounds so poor - Xbox sounds so much better (although appreciate neither will hardly be the best source to test our headphones with from an audio perspective


----------



## z1ggy

bwuak said:


> Can you try playing without the razer software, maybe that's the problem. I'm considering buying ad700x the most right now.


@bwuak I played Fortnite and CSGO last night with both Razer sound on & off, and also the 3D Virtual on and off for CSGO. What I found was that with Fornite, it made no difference if the Razer was on or off. I did actually get into a situation where I was on a roof and a guy was inside a house and I could kind of tell he was below me.. but definitely left v right was easy. Maybe my brain knew the person had to be under me since I was obviously above, so the sound presented as more underneath me. Not sure but either way I was happy with that. PS - Holy crap haven't played Fornite in a while.... what's with these Zombies and pink vortex things???

CSGO was totally different though. The Razer being on and CSGO virtual being off made a HUGE difference. With Razer on, sound was more immersive and deep. Call me crazy but I think somehow the sound stage got expanded slightly which was in this case nice because I could hear footsteps a bit further away. The one downside was guys who were maybe like 10ft away and 20ft away therefore sort of sounded the same as far as audible level of noise. However with 3D turned on and Razer off, everything seemed anemic and hollow.... Something was just "missing". I went back and forth between the settings like 10 times and I felt like the Razer was best. Imaging was definitely better. Maybe Razer EQ's the low mids and upper bass to make the sound fuller? Either way, I enjoyed playing more with Razer on.

Now as far as the AD700's vs buying something else... I'll probably slowly start buying headphones and testing them out head to head to see if any will improve the experience.


----------



## Xspearo

Has anyone had experience with the Massdrop HD 58X Jubilee or the HD 6XX? Specifically for gaming.


----------



## mbyrnes

illram said:


> Massdrop is coming out with the Massdrop X Hifiman Edition XX. Ridiculous Massdrop naming conventions aside it's a $599 Edition X v2 which maybe isn't a bad deal (if you already live in la la Land where $600 headphones can ever be considered "not a bad deal" which is where I somehow ended up).
> 
> Anyway I know @mbyrnes has these and loves them for games, specifically vs the HD800. Anyone else tried these out for gaming with virtual surround? Every planar I have ever tried has been great. The 400i and HE560 are some of my favorite gaming headphones as far as imaging and detail go, something about the artificial sound you get with VSS just "works" with these cans. Curious if anyone has any impressions.



The pricing of the new Massdrop HE-XX is awesome! I may jump on a second pair down the road. Hope to hear these!


----------



## Pairzilla

tmaxx123 said:


> eBay or send the owner an email from his website.
> X7 needs 4 opamps total:
> ss3602 x2
> ss3601 x2
> ...



So I just got my sparkos and installing. They stick out and I cant put the door back on. Am I doing something wrong? I took off the extra black connector but it's still too tall.


----------



## Clean6eR

Pairzilla said:


> So I just got my sparkos and installing. They stick out and I cant put the door back on. Am I doing something wrong? I took off the extra black connector but it's still too tall.


thats correct!

i put some little feet under mine to give space, i also got the burson vivid singles which are MUCH taller, it looks silly. sounds good though...


----------



## mbyrnes

Xspearo said:


> Has anyone had experience with the Massdrop HD 58X Jubilee or the HD 6XX? Specifically for gaming.



I would personally not buy the HD6XX for gaming. The 5 series is better. It's the worst headphone I have for gaming. I have a lot of headphones.


----------



## mbyrnes

Thinking about it, what alternatives for soundstage exist at $599? Hopefully others can chime in with more recent experience with headphones. So many new releases the last two years, since I've done extensive listening to different models. Is there good competition to the new Massdrop HE-XX? What else? I'm curious, because I think this headphone is a big deal at this price point. If it's your listening style, it's a really nice listening experience. Not as efficient as the HE-X, 10 dB lower. Still in line with most normal Headphones. It's not like the HE-X is portable, and really isn't that easy to drive. Good sacrifice to save money. Most would never know anyway.


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 30, 2018)

mbyrnes said:


> I would personally not buy the HD6XX for gaming. The 5 series is better. It's the worst headphone I have for gaming. I have a lot of headphones.



So I'm guessing go with 58X Jubilee? Or just get the hd 598?


----------



## AppleheadMay

The 6XX like the 580 and 58X Jubilee are awesome (high-end) headphones that perform far above their pricepoint.
But I wouldn't consider them for gaming as well.

Consider the 580 and 58X Jubilee as part of the 600 series, not 500.

The 500 series are the headphones like the 598 and 599 and lower models as well.
And those are better for gaming than the 600 series indeed.


----------



## bwuak

mbyrnes said:


> Thinking about it, what alternatives for soundstage exist at $599? Hopefully others can chime in with more recent experience with headphones. So many new releases the last two years, since I've done extensive listening to different models. Is there good competition to the new Massdrop HE-XX? What else? I'm curious, because I think this headphone is a big deal at this price point. If it's your listening style, it's a really nice listening experience. Not as efficient as the HE-X, 10 dB lower. Still in line with most normal Headphones. It's not like the HE-X is portable, and really isn't that easy to drive. Good sacrifice to save money. Most would never know anyway.


From what I hear, for competitive there isn't much better than ad700x, hd 598, akg k702(a bit better? not used as much for gaming because it needs an amp). After that price point you get into more bass and nothing really helpful competitively. However if you look for something more immersive, there's plenty options! I'm a noob that has done a lot of research, so take it however you want.


----------



## bwuak

z1ggy said:


> @bwuak I played Fortnite and CSGO last night with both Razer sound on & off, and also the 3D Virtual on and off for CSGO. What I found was that with Fornite, it made no difference if the Razer was on or off. I did actually get into a situation where I was on a roof and a guy was inside a house and I could kind of tell he was below me.. but definitely left v right was easy. Maybe my brain knew the person had to be under me since I was obviously above, so the sound presented as more underneath me. Not sure but either way I was happy with that. PS - Holy crap haven't played Fornite in a while.... what's with these Zombies and pink vortex things???
> 
> CSGO was totally different though. The Razer being on and CSGO virtual being off made a HUGE difference. With Razer on, sound was more immersive and deep. Call me crazy but I think somehow the sound stage got expanded slightly which was in this case nice because I could hear footsteps a bit further away. The one downside was guys who were maybe like 10ft away and 20ft away therefore sort of sounded the same as far as audible level of noise. However with 3D turned on and Razer off, everything seemed anemic and hollow.... Something was just "missing". I went back and forth between the settings like 10 times and I felt like the Razer was best. Imaging was definitely better. Maybe Razer EQ's the low mids and upper bass to make the sound fuller? Either way, I enjoyed playing more with Razer on.
> 
> Now as far as the AD700's vs buying something else... I'll probably slowly start buying headphones and testing them out head to head to see if any will improve the experience.


Hey I decided to go for hd 598 yesterday! Thank you for sharing your experience with me.


----------



## Yethal

mbyrnes said:


> Thinking about it, what alternatives for soundstage exist at $599? Hopefully others can chime in with more recent experience with headphones. So many new releases the last two years, since I've done extensive listening to different models. Is there good competition to the new Massdrop HE-XX? What else? I'm curious, because I think this headphone is a big deal at this price point. If it's your listening style, it's a really nice listening experience. Not as efficient as the HE-X, 10 dB lower. Still in line with most normal Headphones. It's not like the HE-X is portable, and really isn't that easy to drive. Good sacrifice to save money. Most would never know anyway.


At $599? Dunno. Below that? Entire Sennheiser 5XX series line, AKG K7XX line, Audio-Technica AD700 and its derivatives. Add $100 and you have Aeons


----------



## Xspearo

bwuak said:


> Hey I decided to go for hd 598 yesterday! Thank you for sharing your experience with me.


Yea I just order the HD 598 off of Amazon, I'm going to give them a whirl. I have the K7XX and have tried the ad700x and Beyerdynamic(600ohm). I didnt have a amp/dac at the time to properly drive the Beyerdynamic so now that I have the G6, I might try the 250ohm.


----------



## illram (Oct 30, 2018)

mbyrnes said:


> Thinking about it, what alternatives for soundstage exist at $599? Hopefully others can chime in with more recent experience with headphones. So many new releases the last two years, since I've done extensive listening to different models. Is there good competition to the new Massdrop HE-XX? What else? I'm curious, because I think this headphone is a big deal at this price point. If it's your listening style, it's a really nice listening experience. Not as efficient as the HE-X, 10 dB lower. Still in line with most normal Headphones. It's not like the HE-X is portable, and really isn't that easy to drive. Good sacrifice to save money. Most would never know anyway.



How big is its stage?

The e-stat Koss ESP95x at Massdrop ($499? I think) is not a killer soundstage but its imaging and detail are top tier. It's my current favorite after the HD800S particularly with the new pads. (I have the non Massdrop model with my own velour pads).

The HE-560 is half the price and has a decent stage and also great imaging. I would hope the XX would be an improvement over it though. The LCD2 classic was originally on sale for $599 and is also fantastic but is warmer. Same for the THX00 but both of those have such a radically different (bassier) sound that the HiFiMans that they are hard to compare, and just talking about stage does not do those cans justice.

I don't know why but I hate the 7XX. Maybe VSS does something weird to mine, it just does not sound like a big stage to me. I try not to rag on it too much as I am in the clear minority in hating that headphone. I much prefer the 598 which is honestly an amazing value for what it is. Not that the size of the stage is everything but I don't get the 360 degree effect with the 7XX as much as others like the 598, 400i, 560, the ESP950, etc. It also sounds sort of muddy and not as clear. I feel like throwing VSS into the mix can in some cases radically change a phones' stage, like the 400i. My unscientific theory is it becomes about how well the cans can imitate an artificial stage rather than how big their natural staging is. Stereo?  400i, as one example, has a just average stage, nothing special. VSS? Sounds like my speakers are still on.

I also tried the X2 and was not a huge fan. Fun, sounds great, but VSS staging sortsof collapses on me. Another set I'm in the minority on.

In unrelated news the Super X-Fi is dropping in the US on Nov 1!


----------



## TeeReQs

illram said:


> I don't know why but I hate the 7XX. Maybe VSS does something weird to mine, it just does not sound like a big stage to me. I try not to rag on it too much as I am in the clear minority in hating that headphone. I much prefer the 598 which is honestly an amazing value for what it is. Not that the size of the stage is everything but I don't get the 360 degree effect with the 7XX as much as others like the 598, 400i, 560, the ESP950, etc. It also sounds sort of muddy and not as clear. I feel like throwing VSS into the mix can in some cases radically change a phones' stage, like the 400i. My unscientific theory is it becomes about how well the cans can imitate an artificial stage rather than how big their natural staging is. Stereo?  400i, as one example, has a just average stage, nothing special. VSS? Sounds like my speakers are still on
> 
> In unrelated news the Super X-Fi is dropping in the US on Nov 1!



I agree with you on the 7XX. I prefer my 598s over the 7XX in comfort and soundstage.

Very excited to about the Super X-Fi!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 30, 2018)

Hope you guys noticed the massdrop Edition XX or whatever is using the VERY OLD headband style of Hifiman. I wonder why? Is it really that much cheaper to retrofit those headbands on it? Ugh.


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hope you guys noticed the massdrop Edition XX or whatever is using the VERY OLD headband style of Hifiman. I wonder why? Is it really that much cheaper to retrofit those headbands on it? Ugh.


Yeah, they did the same with the 4XX (vs. 400i). I assume whatever cost cutting "magic" they do includes these, or Massdrop wants to just do something specific for the Massdrop ones and that's what was lying around. Or probably both. 

Are the old ones much worse? I never used them, only the newer suspension type.


----------



## mbyrnes

I have no issues with the V2 HE-X headband, which added notches for smaller heads. I don't have a problem with it. It was a complaint overall with the model though. Not surprised a different headband was used here. 

The HE-X has a soundstage that rivals the HD800. For $600, I just don't see an alternative close in price. Hopefully I can here these in a few weeks at a local yearly meet.


----------



## z1ggy

mbyrnes said:


> The pricing of the new Massdrop HE-XX is awesome! I may jump on a second pair down the road. Hope to hear these!


At $600 it seems like a great price. Looking at the frequency response though... these look to be particularly lacking in the upper mids?? Looks to be a -2dB drop between 1 and 2k. Entire bass and low mids look awesome though. Just worry vocals will suffer  bit. Am I right in thinking this? Can anybody with more experience chime in?


----------



## mbyrnes

Vocals are a strong point for me. It's not in your face, but sounds very real. Well, it's how I like it to sounds. The HE-X thread is informative. These should be pretty close to the sound signature of those. I love mine. I'm glad the cost is coming down. I bought mine used for just under $900 two years ago. At the time, I was stealing them. The original launched at $1799. Dropped to $1299 with the revision, and that price was solid. These are over half as much cheaper. That's awesome for the market. Glad others will get to enjoy these cans.


----------



## z1ggy

bwuak said:


> From what I hear, for competitive there isn't much better than ad700x, hd 598, akg k702(a bit better? not used as much for gaming because it needs an amp). After that price point you get into more bass and nothing really helpful competitively. However if you look for something more immersive, there's plenty options! I'm a noob that has done a lot of research, so take it however you want.


As far as imaging goes, AD700 is excellent, but there is better. However, for comp in particular you don't want a massive sound stage and you don't want tons of bass. For the price AD700 is probably the best value for games. Technically 702's have better imaging and overall better sound, but the sound stage is wider which doesn't give you any kind of advantage really for games. You don't want foot steps to sound massively wide and far away from your head as somebody who's only a few feet from you may sound much further away.

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/imaging

https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/audio-technica/ath-ad700x-audiophile
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/akg/k702

For competitive, I'd stick with AD700s (I have them, they are very good) and for "fun" casual where you just want huge explosions and rumbling... there's a lot of possibility depending on budget. I'm actually going to be buying up a bunch of cans in the coming months and I will probably be posting brief reviews here as far as that's concerned.


----------



## z1ggy

mbyrnes said:


> Vocals are a strong point for me. It's not in your face, but sounds very real. Well, it's how I like it to sounds. The HE-X thread is informative. These should be pretty close to the sound signature of those. I love mine. I'm glad the cost is coming down. I bought mine used for just under $900 two years ago. At the time, I was stealing them. The original launched at $1799. Dropped to $1299 with the revision, and that price was solid. These are over half as much cheaper. That's awesome for the market. Glad others will get to enjoy these cans.


Well from the looks of it the XX will have less mids even than the original but catches up in the low trebs. It looks like it would be a particularly warm sound of out these?


----------



## mbyrnes

They are a warm, laid back sound. Easy listening, non fatiguing. Good detail in the highs, but recessed. This is my overall preference. I have headphones with other abilities. Playing with Loki recently, and it handles EQ well. It's funny, they don't really have a stand out feature, but they do everything well. 

They're revealing, but not overly so. I didn't like that about the HE-1000. Most music I listen to is not recorded well. The HE-X is a nice compromise level for me. They do well with what I listen to.


----------



## z1ggy

Do you game with them at all?

Also semi off topic, but.. does Massdrop let you return product you don't like? Not sure I could buy a drop blindly if I couldn't return for a refund if I didn't like the sound.


----------



## Xspearo (Oct 31, 2018)

z1ggy said:


> As far as imaging goes, AD700 is excellent, but there is better. However, for comp in particular you don't want a massive sound stage and you don't want tons of bass. For the price AD700 is probably the best value for games. Technically 702's have better imaging and overall better sound, but the sound stage is wider which doesn't give you any kind of advantage really for games. You don't want foot steps to sound massively wide and far away from your head as somebody who's only a few feet from you may sound much further away.
> 
> https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/imaging
> 
> ...





z1ggy said:


> Do you game with them at all?
> 
> Also semi off topic, but.. does Massdrop let you return product you don't like? Not sure I could buy a drop blindly if I couldn't return for a refund if I didn't like the sound.



I think that's the issue I have with my massdrop K7XX that sound stage is to big and i have difficulty in Black Ops 4 hearing footsteps and pin pointing them sometime. I have order the ad900x, HD 598, and pro 990 to see if any of them are better.

Yes I would like to know the same thing about Massdrops return policy because I want to get the HD 58X and dont want to be stuck with them if I dont like them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Xspearo said:


> I think that's the issue I have with my Massdrop K7XX that sound stage is to big and i have difficulty in Black Ops 4 hearing footsteps and pin pointing them sometime. I have order the ad900x, HD 598, and pro 990 to see if any of them are better.
> Yes I would like to know the same thing about Massdrop's return policy because I want to get the HD 58X and don't want to be stuck with them if I don't like them.


From my understanding, unless the products ships to you defective or damaged during shipment, which Massdrop will deal with for the first 30 days, There is no returning of product.
Massdrop is a one time group buy, on a product, Massdrop is not setup for long term support of any product it deals with, for a group buy (my opinion).


----------



## PurpleAngel

z1ggy said:


> Do you game with them at all?
> 
> Also semi off topic, but.. does Massdrop let you return product you don't like? Not sure I could buy a drop blindly if I couldn't return for a refund if I didn't like the sound.


With Massdrop, no returning of product, unless it's shipped to you defective or is damaged during shipment (covered the first 30 days).


----------



## Clean6eR

i took my g6 to work to try out with some grado sr325's.

this is actually a REALLY good quality dac amp combo, to the point i feel it worth praise as just a simple all in one stereo dac amp setup. if only i could get around the mic monitor issue i have with it


----------



## z1ggy (Nov 1, 2018)

PurpleAngel said:


> With Massdrop, no returning of product, unless it's shipped to you defective or is damaged during shipment (covered the first 30 days).


So...There's probably going to be some supply on eBay in the near future then.... I don't think I could blind buy something without the ability to return it if I didn't like it after day... 7 days or something.

Edit: HE-XX just dropped... If somebody grabs these please post your review!


----------



## davisman

z1ggy said:


> So...There's probably going to be some supply on eBay in the near future then.... I don't think I could blind buy something without the ability to return it if I didn't like it after day... 7 days or something.
> 
> Edit: HE-XX just dropped... If somebody grabs these please post your review!



Especially with a Hifiman product I would be weary of buying it from MD. Their resell value is always poor, and you will likely take a bath if you do not like it.


----------



## z1ggy

Yeah I see multiple X00's on eBay for 50% of their new price on Massdrop. With something so subjective... I'd never buy it blind like that knowing resale is poor. I'd just be curious to see how they compare against X and also Sundara.


----------



## davisman

I think there are a lot of people that are sensitive the the Fostex treble spike. I recently tried out a pair of the Foxtex th900 blues and really didnt like them compared to my original th900s. They took away some of the bass that makes the headphone work, and left all of the treble. IT does allow the mids to be heard more, but IMO ruins what the th900 is. A fun V shaped sound signature that has a damn good soundstage for a semi closed can. 

In fact the Th900 handle virtual surround very well. There have been many times that I have forgot to turn off surround, and have enjoyed listening to music. It just works.


----------



## TeeReQs

Anybody order the Super X-Fi yet? Sale page is live for the US.

https://us.sxfi.com/products/sxfi-amp


----------



## HairyHook

TeeReQs said:


> Anybody order the Super X-Fi yet? Sale page is live for the US.
> 
> https://us.sxfi.com/products/sxfi-amp


I did. It comes with a headset for a limited time.


----------



## TeeReQs

I saw that. Probably going to order it as well. Are you going to be able to get your hands on one MLE?


----------



## illram

TeeReQs said:


> Anybody order the Super X-Fi yet? Sale page is live for the US.
> 
> https://us.sxfi.com/products/sxfi-amp



Yep.

*10 weeks *for delivery. (They will "endeavor" to ship it in 10 weeks, anyway... whatever that means.) And no refunds or cancellations. A bit risky to pre-order but I did it anyway because I've been waiting so long for this thing. Crossing my fingers Creative does not go bankrupt in the next two months...


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Nov 2, 2018)

Picked up a G6 a week or so ago and really pleased with it - having tested it with my Game One, HD58x and now K702.  Using it on PS4.

Not sure if I need to tweak some settings but the SBX processing didn't seem to play nice with CoD Blackout last night.  I have most of the processing (Crystaliser etc) turned off and surround set to 'Wide' rather than ultra wide.  In most games this is just right for me, especially with the K702s, Thing is, on Blackout, footsteps sound like they are literally right next to me when in fact the enemy is a long way off, kept turning expecting someone running behind me when in fact they are dots in the distance?  I've gone back to turning off SBX on this game and get far better positional cues that way?

Is there the odd game or two where SBX isn't the best option?


----------



## Xspearo

WhiteHartMart said:


> Picked up a G6 a week or so ago and really pleased with it - having tested it with my Game One, HD58x and now K702.  Using it on PS4.
> 
> Not sure if I need to tweak some settings but the SBX processing didn't seem to play nice with CoD Blackout last night.  I have most of the processing (Crystaliser etc) turned off and surround set to 'Wide' rather than ultra wide.  In most games this is just right for me, especially with the K702s, Think is, on Blackout, footsteps sound like they are literally right next to me when in fact the enemy is a long way off, kept turning expecting someone running behind me when in fact they are dots in the distance?  I've gone back to turning off SBX on this game and get far better positional cues that way?
> 
> Are there the odd game or two where SBX isn't the best option?



I had same issue. I also have G6 with massdrop K7XX and I felt like I couldn't pinpoint footsteps in Blackout with any surround options. I dont know if it's because of AKG sound stage is so big to begin with. I'm currently doing test with other headphones(990 pro, ad900x, HD 598) so far for me in plan stereo I seem to get a little better positional ques. I know a lot of people said the footsteps and sounds were bugged. I think they put a patch out the other day and I think footsteps got a little better. I just started the testing so I will let you know in about a week what I find.

Also could you please answer how do you like the massdrop HD 58X for gaming? I'm thinking about picking them up over the HD 598 I bought.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Xspearo said:


> Also could you please answer how do you like the massdrop HD 58X for gaming? I'm thinking about picking them up over the HD 598 I bought.



I've just got the K702s this week and have used only them since - will spend some time over the next day or so back on the HD58x and report back what I think if it helps


----------



## Xspearo

WhiteHartMart said:


> I've just got the K702s this week and have used only them since - will spend some time over the next day or so back on the HD58x and report back what I think if it helps



Awesome I appreciate it. I've been eyeing then for awhile.

But yea try in stereo see if that helps.


----------



## headphonesonly

WhiteHartMart said:


> Picked up a G6 a week or so ago and really pleased with it - having tested it with my Game One, HD58x and now K702.  Using it on PS4.
> 
> Not sure if I need to tweak some settings but the SBX processing didn't seem to play nice with CoD Blackout last night.  I have most of the processing (Crystaliser etc) turned off and surround set to 'Wide' rather than ultra wide.  In most games this is just right for me, especially with the K702s, Think is, on Blackout, footsteps sound like they are literally right next to me when in fact the enemy is a long way off, kept turning expecting someone running behind me when in fact they are dots in the distance?  I've gone back to turning off SBX on this game and get far better positional cues that way?
> 
> Are there the odd game or two where SBX isn't the best option?


Bo4 has bad sound right now. Everyone is complaining about footsteps having no depth


----------



## mindbomb

WhiteHartMart said:


> Picked up a G6 a week or so ago and really pleased with it - having tested it with my Game One, HD58x and now K702.  Using it on PS4.
> 
> Not sure if I need to tweak some settings but the SBX processing didn't seem to play nice with CoD Blackout last night.  I have most of the processing (Crystaliser etc) turned off and surround set to 'Wide' rather than ultra wide.  In most games this is just right for me, especially with the K702s, Thing is, on Blackout, footsteps sound like they are literally right next to me when in fact the enemy is a long way off, kept turning expecting someone running behind me when in fact they are dots in the distance?  I've gone back to turning off SBX on this game and get far better positional cues that way?
> 
> Is there the odd game or two where SBX isn't the best option?



Are you using sbx smart volume or anything like that?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

mindbomb said:


> Are you using sbx smart volume or anything like that?



Pretty sure I'm not.  I elected to strip all the settings back to off apart from the 'Wide' setting and a 'very small' tweak to the equaliser.


----------



## mindbomb

WhiteHartMart said:


> Pretty sure I'm not.  I elected to strip all the settings back to off apart from the 'Wide' setting and a 'very small' tweak to the equaliser.



Okay, idk then. distance is mainly just volume, with lower volume sounding farther away.


----------



## illram

Blackout footsteps were super inconsistent but the recent patch ironed out a lot of it, for me. I'm also using the G6. Have not tried it yet with anything else, maybe I should. 

Footsteps in that mode are just loud in general particularly if you and the enemy are outside. Awareness is almost too strong, everyone sounds like they're right next to me even if they're super far away so I sort of become paralyzed sitting there listening to all the people scurrying around and wondering what the hell to do.

 Inside it is still a little wonky mostly because verticality is not really there with 5.1. (Haven't tried it with the 7xx, which is gathering dust...maybe I'll give it a go tonight.)


----------



## Xspearo

WhiteHartMart said:


> Pretty sure I'm not.  I elected to strip all the settings back to off apart from the 'Wide' setting and a 'very small' tweak to the equaliser.



Yea I think in my experience/thoughts with it on wide or ultra being AKG already has a big sound stage it just makes the space that much bigger and everything like footsteps gets jumbled in the sound. That's why I use them in stereo and also trying out these other headsets. I did notice at one point playing yesterday with the ad900x, I  landed at the group of house that are in a circle with the gazebo in middle I heard a guy move in another house and was able to pinpoint his position.


----------



## Xspearo

illram said:


> Blackout footsteps were super inconsistent but the recent patch ironed out a lot of it, for me. I'm also using the G6. Have not tried it yet with anything else, maybe I should.
> 
> Footsteps in that mode are just loud in general particularly if you and the enemy are outside. Awareness is almost too strong, everyone sounds like they're right next to me even if they're super far away so I sort of become paralyzed sitting there listening to all the people scurrying around and wondering what the hell to do.
> 
> Inside it is still a little wonky mostly because verticality is not really there with 5.1. (Haven't tried it with the 7xx, which is gathering dust...maybe I'll give it a go tonight.)



What headphones are you currently using to game?


----------



## illram

Xspearo said:


> What headphones are you currently using to game?


Koss ESP950 with velour pads. I love these things.


----------



## mindbomb

illram said:


> Blackout footsteps were super inconsistent but the recent patch ironed out a lot of it, for me. I'm also using the G6. Have not tried it yet with anything else, maybe I should.
> 
> Footsteps in that mode are just loud in general particularly if you and the enemy are outside. Awareness is almost too strong, everyone sounds like they're right next to me even if they're super far away so I sort of become paralyzed sitting there listening to all the people scurrying around and wondering what the hell to do.
> 
> Inside it is still a little wonky mostly because verticality is not really there with 5.1. (Haven't tried it with the 7xx, which is gathering dust...maybe I'll give it a go tonight.)



The game might be internally hitting some volume ceiling on 7.1, causing all these sounds to have similar volume when they shouldn't. If the game has volume options in the audio menu, try halving it.


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> The game might be internally hitting some volume ceiling on 7.1, causing all these sounds to have similar volume when they shouldn't. If the game has volume options in the audio menu, try halving it.



Sorry, I should have specified; "Awareness" is a perk that amplifies all footsteps. Normally, there is a decent difference in volume level indicating distance, it is just that you can (albeit quietly) hear people from really far away. 

When you do hear stuff, the spatial perception is more or less accurate. The G6 I find does tend to put rear cues behind and below my ears though, for some reason. Like they are behind the back of my neck.


----------



## illram (Nov 3, 2018)

Xspearo said:


> Yea I think in my experience/thoughts with it on wide or ultra being AKG already has a big sound stage it just makes the space that much bigger and everything like footsteps gets jumbled in the sound. That's why I use them in stereo and also trying out these other headsets. I did notice at one point playing yesterday with the ad900x, I  landed at the group of house that are in a circle with the gazebo in middle I heard a guy move in another house and was able to pinpoint his position.



Tried out the 7XX tonight with the G6 in Blackout. Nothing seemed wildly off vs. the ESP950 I've been using for a while. (Ultra wide, 5.1, "Full" in Dolby dynamic settings, Flat EQ, no crystallizer or bass, Xbox).


----------



## Xspearo

illram said:


> Tried out the 7XX tonight with the G6 in Blackout. Nothing seemed wildly off vs. the ESP950 I've been using for a while. (Ultra wide, 5.1, "Full" in Dolby dynamic settings, Flat EQ, no crystallizer or bass, Xbox).



Yea with the new update on 10/31/18 footsteps and sounds in general are a lot better. They finally have audio presets also.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yea - things seem better since the update - although I still prefer turning SBX off on the G6 (just for this game) and using the 'Headphone' preset in the game audio menu.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Xspearo said:


> Also could you please answer how do you like the massdrop HD 58X for gaming? I'm thinking about picking them up over the HD 598 I bought.



Had a quick A v B test last night and this morning, alongside the K702 and still prefer the AKGs for gaming.  Mind you I play a lot of FPS games so the wider soundstage of the AKGs probably suit that genre more?

Testing them both particularly on Destiny 2, the HD58x sound good and offer a little more warmth and thump with the weapons but although weapons perhaps sound a little thin with the AKG I can't ignore the fact they make me feel like I'm in a huge, expansive world.  The atmosphere they help to generate is just far better suited to the games I play.  They do need a fair bit more power though compared to the HD58x. Other advantage for the AKGs for me is being able to use the VModa Boompro with them so they are far more convenient to turn into a headset also


----------



## Xspearo

WhiteHartMart said:


> Had a quick A v B test last night and this morning, alongside the K702 and still prefer the AKGs for gaming.  Mind you I play a lot of FPS games so the wider soundstage of the AKGs probably suit that genre more?
> 
> Testing them both particularly on Destiny 2, the HD58x sound good and offer a little more warmth and thump with the weapons but although weapons perhaps sound a little thin with the AKG I can't ignore the fact they make me feel like I'm in a huge, expansive world.  The atmosphere they help to generate is just far better suited to the games I play.  They do need a fair bit more power though compared to the HD58x. Other advantage for the AKGs for me is being able to use the VModa Boompro with them so they are far more convenient to turn into a headset also



Thanks for the update. yea I have noticed with the recent update how superior the K7XX really are for gaming. I really wish I could still try the HD 58X tho because I do like the way they look and hear good things, but since the update I find myself content with the K7XX and would be quite upset if I got stuck with the HD 58X since massdrop doesn't have a return policy.


----------



## DCB305

Has any one bought anything from here https://www.blinq.com/search/go?w=Sennheiser Headphones ?

Looks like you can find some deals...saw several sennheisers at a pretty good price. I found this searching through sennhesiers website look for a headset for my son so seems legit. I ordered a set of the GSP500 (not sure if they are better than the game versions, but with the 10% off first order they came out to $133 out the door for an open box pair. 

Should be arriving 11/12, so I will let you all know how they arrive.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 4, 2018)

So I just received the GW100 Grados wrieless headphones that have SR225 drivers (apparently/unconfirmed). This was 100% impulse purchase.

My very first pair of Grados, and of course I plan on writing about them. What I will say is:

1. FINALLY a headphone that plays nice with my bluetooth transmitter. I FINALLY get Apt-X Low Latency to work! That means I finally can just use the Creative G6 to send spdif to the transmitter to a wireless headphone without it defaulting to the really bad proprietary Fast Stream codec which garbles and distorts with most of anything. Apt-X LL sounds fine for my needs, and I can do SBX with the G6.

2. Holy cow, for $250, the headphone feels and looks INCREDIBLY cheap. I mean, Grado, I dunno what you're thinking but aesthetically, this looks and feels like a sub $40 headphone. For $250, you'd think it'd look the part. It doesn't. Disappointment here, questionable design choice here.

3. I always heard Grados were uncomfortable, but even someone like me who takes comfort as #1 priority, I find the GW100 actually quite good on comfort. It's very light, the headband is basically like there is none, and the foam on ear pads are not much different from Portapros, just much bigger in size. I'm used to this style. Clamp is fine too. They're not Ultrasone HFI-15G levels of on ear perfection in comfort, but they're solid here.

4. Really, REEEEEALLY impressive bass presence, but not much actual impact. It's more like it's there, but you don't feel TOO much of it.  Not to say it's not present. Like I said, it's actually pretty damn audible, just it ain't a basshead headphone. If this is typical Grado bass, I am a FAN. 

5. The midrange is REAAALLY excellent. I think Grado mids are something that are worth investigating.

6. It's a sharp detail clarity. Not warm, not fluid. Sharp and tactile. Fast. I initially thought the GW100 sounded actually not very good. After messing with it, and changing from my phone to my PC, I dunno what prompted a change or if I adapted, but I'm loving the sound. It's different. But man, it's good. I'm actually upset that I missed so many years of Grado goodness. If this is any indication on the Grado sound, I'm absolutely interested in hearing what their other stuff sounds like.

7. Spacious dimensionality. Can't say actual soundstage, but in stereo, it is reallly nice.

8. Controls are incredibly simple if a bit too simple, and the headphone only connects to ONE device at a time.

9. The wired connection has REALLY clean, clear sound with absolutely stellar midrange. One problem: the bass is sucked out. So I don't know how effective wired mode will be without a bass eq to bring the bass back. It effectively makes the GW100 sound like another headphone practically all because of the bass. I'll have to test this more.

10. Initial impressions are mainly positive, aside from the obvious build quality and price. I think it would've been a must have at $150. $250... I dunno. But then, I dunno how it compares to Grados wired lineup. Sound-wise, I'm fine with the sound quality for $250. I mean, damn, it's infectious, clear as a bell and detailed. It really doesn't even sound like a wireless headphone to me. On sound alone, Grado, you have a new fan. ABSOLUTELY.


----------



## Clean6eR

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I just received the GW100 Grados wrieless headphones that have SR225 drivers (apparently/unconfirmed). This was 100% impulse purchase.
> 
> My very first pair of Grados, and of course I plan on writing about them. What I will say is:
> 
> ...



these are worth a try, very cheap and comfy too! in case you want to try them as less on ear style, i switched my sr325 and sr125 to these pads, so cheap yet a little more comfy:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ear-Pads...=item212d3b23fe:g:NNoAAOSwoAxZp~Wk:rk:37:pf:0

PS: thank you for the awesome review of them!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I heard those are uncomfortable compared to the comfy stock pads. Comfort is my #1 priority so not sure I'd give that up. The pads are cheap, so I may invest in them at some point if out of mere curiosity.


----------



## tmaxx123

I got the grado sr60 for free and just had them as a backup headset. Once I tried them and heard how good they sound, and how comfortable they are, they’re here to stay. Not sure how people think they’re uncomfortable. Bass is surprisingly good also


----------



## Clean6eR

i get driven crazy by on ear headphones, i tried the big pads and liked them more but to be honest they still still sit on my ears, i wouldn't call them uncomfortable but they can irritate or itch your ear but very much like the stock ones, if the stock don't then these wont, there both made from sponge! i wouldn't pay the 60 for the official ones! i prefered them to the stock, at there price i wasn't worried if  they would suck at all! then again i dont think im the target market for this type of headphone, i do enjoy the fun in your face and smack style presentation of these headphones!

after a lot of time they cause my ears to itch. i hate velour for this same reason, i prefer leather or pleather in general. (i don't sweat much)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 5, 2018)

What annoys me is how bass is affected by the bluetooth codecs. They sound fullest/best directly from the bluetooth connection of my PC (which I believe W10 defaults to apt-X codec built in, but the bass is reduced a little out of the apt-X low latency codec out of my bluetooth transmitter. The Low Latency codec is what I want to use since of least lag and the only way to connect to my G6 for virtual surround. It's not a big deal, but if I wanna listen to music I absolutely wanna switch to my PC's built in bluetooth support. Problem here is that the damn thing cuts in and out. The transmitter has zero issues with connection, while the slightly better sounding PC connection has a worse connection. Ugh.

The difference in bass is minimal but its enough that it's gonna nag at me. Lol. Both connections sound stellar in quality either way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TGCDHL2/

So I bought these. Really highly rated. May be all I need.


----------



## Vader2k

Creative has a $10 off the G6 coupon (in the US):  *GETYOURG6*

Not sure when it expires.


----------



## Clean6eR

g6 is so frustrating, in direct mode i really like it! also direct mode's mic monitor does appear to be instant, yet you cant record the mic in direct mode! and when you use the mixing chip on the device the mic has a VERY harsh filter on it making it sound much like the gsx mic input or other gaming grade recorders. some people on overclock site even checked it in audacity. https://www.overclock.net/forum/18-sound-cards-computer-audio/1709766-soundblasterx-g6-mic-input-terrible.html 

i hope they can add a firmware update that allows recording the mic in direct mode! that would make this the ultimate setup for me (not a user of surround processing) until then the steeleseries gamedac is best i have.


----------



## frankefrum

I am trying to replace my tried and true mixamp 5.8. I have been using it since 2012, but it has started to have problems getting a clean signal. 

I am currently experimenting with Bluetooth Low Latency. I am using the Avantree Oasis Plus as my transmitter and the Fiio BTR3 as my receiver. I am pairing these with the Fidelio X1’s.

I had researched these quite a bit and it seemed like these were the best available options for wireless sound in terms of fidelity and power. However, I am prettty underwhelmed coming from the mix amp 5.8. I feel like the soundstage is 3-6 feet away and I am not getting the full bass the mixamp offered. 

Can someone recommend a better Bluetooth/wireless solution? I love my current headphones (I only use them for gaming), and I don’t want to get involved with the newer Mixamp stuff that forces you to use their headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 7, 2018)

I think it maty be more that you need a stronger amp now? You do lose a little bit of dynamics with blueooth depending on the quality of it. I have an Avantree transmitter (this one) that has AptX low latency, and it sounds good, but compared to connecting to the PC's Apt-X (non-LL), the LL loses just a hint of bass. Not by much, still very much worth it, but it does sound better through the standard Apt-X (though the lag in video games wouldn't be ideal...it's perfect for music listening). It may also be the conversion from grabbing audio from an spdif/optical and converting that to bluetooth as opposed to the built in Apt-X on my PC not needing to convert.

In any case, I think your Fiio device may be woefully underpowered for the X1. I don't think the X1 is hard to drive, but I do think you may want something beefier.

As for your use, I dunno. I myself have bluetooth headphones specifically when I don't want to be tethered.

Grado GW100 (which also has a very functional 3.5mm input which I use for my Vmoda BoomPro, in a wired setup)
Audeze Mobius
Koss PortaPro Wireless
Creative Soundblaster JAM

It's hard finding a wireless solution for wired headphones.

I've been saying it for years. Wireless is too convenient to pass up.


----------



## frankefrum

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think it maty be more that you need a stronger amp now? You do lose a little bit of dynamics with blueooth depending on the quality of it. I have an Avantree transmitter (this one) that has AptX low latency, and it sounds good, but compared to connecting to the PC's Apt-X (non-LL), the LL loses just a hint of bass. Not by much, still very much worth it, but it does sound better through the standard Apt-X (though the lag in video games wouldn't be ideal...it's perfect for music listening). It may also be the conversion from grabbing audio from an spdif/optical and converting that to bluetooth as opposed to the built in Apt-X on my PC not needing to convert.
> 
> In any case, I think your Fiio device may be woefully underpowered for the X1. I don't think the X1 is hard to drive, but I do think you may want something beefier.
> 
> ...



I am interested in the Audeze Mobius, but I don’t think it includes AptX LL, which seems strange on a self-proclaimed gaming headphone. 

I believe the Fiio BTR3 is rated for headphones up to 100 ohms and the X1 is 30 ohm. So, I’m really surprised that I have to max volume out to get decent volume and it is still lacking the beefier sound signature afforded by the mixamp 5.8.

I’d like to try a different dac amp, but finding ones that provide Bluetooth AptX LL isn’t easy. The only one I have found with more impressive specs is the Creative Sound Blaster E5. It is supposed to be able to push 600 ohm cans. Anyone have any opinion on these?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 7, 2018)

ohm rating is not a good gauge for how much power a headphone needs. K701s and the like are only 62ohm or so, and they are VERY hard to power. Likewise planars like the HE-6 are like 40ohm. They can't be driven by anything but the best amps.

I can only speculate, but looking at the BTR3, that thing is woefully small. I have no doubt it can't drive a beefier headphone properly at all. The X1 may not be hard to drive, but perhaps a weaker amp signifies a smaller soundstage and weaker bass. Signs of being underdriven.

As for the Mobius not having Apt-X, I know the reason, and I'll just say they're forward thinking and they have specific reasons why they aren't going that route. Apt-X may make sense now, but in the future for high end audio, it may not be so.

When something says up to 600ohm, it just means "They'll get sound". It does not mean, it will be ideal for something harder to drive. You have to look at how much power an amp pushes at the ohm rating. And that's not even all. There is sensitivity as well, which may be low or high regardless of ohms. I'll say the E5 is not an ideal amp for 600ohm. No way it has ample power there. When you think of 600ohm, they are naturally reserved for studio/desktop amplifiers. Not some portable thing you can hold with your hand.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I know this has been mentioned before but really need some help with my G6 before sending it back.  Pairing up with some AKG K702 and VModa Boom Pro Mic and sound is superb.  However, using with PS4 especially when in a party, I just cannot get the volume of the party members chat to be heard easily over the game audio.  I've tried this with the Input/Output device set as the G6 on the PS4 settings and also with the Output device as TV/Amp (which allows some form of part chat mixing via the PS4 onscreen slider).  With the first combination comms are virtually inaudible, with the 2nd I can just about have a conversation over the game audio, but the main audio quality seems to suffer.  As a comparison, I plugged my Game One's into the controller and great party chat returned instantly.

I don't have access easily to a PC and while I did make a few tweaks day one, I don't recall any setting that could sort this easily?  If not, might as well send the G6 and AKGs back


----------



## frankefrum

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ohm rating is not a good gauge for how much power a headphone needs. K701s and the like are only 62ohm or so, and they are VERY hard to power. Likewise planars like the HE-6 are like 40ohm. They can't be driven by anything but the best amps.
> 
> I can only speculate, but looking at the BTR3, that thing is woefully small. I have no doubt it can't drive a beefier headphone properly at all. The X1 may not be hard to drive, but perhaps a weaker amp signifies a smaller soundstage and weaker bass. Signs of being underdriven.
> 
> ...



If I get the Audeze Mobius, can you recommend a transmitter for LDAC?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't think there are LDAC transmitters.


----------



## Vader2k

Looks like Creative dropped another firmware update for the G6 today.  Link to G6 Support Page

_Fixes:_

Fix HRTF Surround not set in Headphone output
Fix no audio when switch to Optical out with headphone connected
Fix incorrect switching to headphone output when playing a media in speaker out mode
Fix virtualized rear channels cannot be heard when in Direct Mode with optical input
Improve device robustness during power up
Fix Master volumme balance not working


----------



## headphonesonly

Is anyone else using Hifiman he4XX with the g6? Because I have this issue with the audio cutting out on ps4 only when i play it at a decently loud volume (on high gain and 80-90% volume). This happens with other hard to drive headphones too like with my 6XX. It usually only happens with really loud sounds like gun fire or explosions. Using an external amp is the only to fix this issue. Curious if anyone else encountered this issue.

I guess it’s not that big of a deal if you have another amp. But I’m not sure if that makes my g6 defective. It only does this with Dolby Digital. Usb and lpcm dont have this issue. It doesn’t help when the ps4 output is quieter than my laptop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 10, 2018)

My Massdrop KSC75X came in today. Terrible timing, but at least it's here. They'll be used for my Switch, since I can't use my Portapro wireless on the switch without some adapter I don't wanna spend money on.

I swapped the black clips from the X and put them on my Portapro, since those get a LOT of use every night, while the 75X will only be used rarely on the Switch, so I don't mind the silver clips on them.

As for sound, you can really tell the difference between the PortaPro and 75X. The PortaPro is much fuller and warmer. More realistic. The 75X is bright and harsher. It's been a long time since I've compared the two, but Koss definitely got it right in charging more for the PortaPro over KSC75s. Not to say the 75 sounds bad. For the price, they are still fantastic.

As always, *bend the clips inward so the drivers sit closer to your ear canals for maximum sound quality from the 75.*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Vader2k said:


> Looks like Creative dropped another firmware update for the G6 today.  Link to G6 Support Page
> 
> _Fixes:_
> 
> ...



Ooh, I'll be giving this a go in the next few days.

I hope @Fegefeuer can chime in and tell us if the settings are saving correctly.


----------



## toshly (Nov 10, 2018)

i want to do optical out from my sound blaster z' virtual surround to my modi multibit which is connected to my amp via introprose cross connector, what is the optical out cable called can someone link me one on the schiit website or amazon, sorry im a bit confused i dont want to waste my money and end up buying the wrong cable


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

toshly said:


> i want to do optical out from my sound blaster z' virtual surround to my modi multibit which is connected to my amp via introprose cross connector, what is the optical out cable called can someone link me one on the schiit website or amazon, sorry im a bit confused i dont want to waste my money and end up buying the wrong cable


Toslink/Spdif cable. Im not sure on your input but I'd advise to also get yourself some toslink to 3.5mm adapters, in case your input is the smaller one (like on the Creative G6.)


----------



## toshly

ok and i'd plug the adapter into the headphone jack in the sbz then the toslink cable to the modi multibit? or would i need a adapter for that aswell


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

toshly said:


> ok and i'd plug the adapter into the headphone jack in the sbz then the toslink cable to the modi multibit? or would i need a adapter for that aswell


No not the headphone jack. That adapter is for optical outs that are 3.5mm. NOT the headphone jack.


----------



## headphonesonly

toshly said:


> ok and i'd plug the adapter into the headphone jack in the sbz then the toslink cable to the modi multibit? or would i need a adapter for that aswell


The sbz has a regular spdif out so you only need a regular toslink cable. You don’t need the one with the 3.5 mm end, that’s usually called mini toslink.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah just looked at the rear i/o, a regular toslink cable is all you need. Sorry for the confusion, I'm doing 4 things at once.


----------



## toshly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No not the headphone jack. That adapter is for optical outs that are 3.5mm. NOT the headphone jack.



i was under the impression sbx only works on the headphone port, i guess i plug the cable into the sound card then use the adapter to plug into the modi? the dac and amp are already connected so i guess i wont need to do anything extra for that, idk im confused


----------



## headphonesonly

toshly said:


> i was under the impression sbx only works on the headphone port, i guess i plug the cable into the sound card then use the adapter to plug into the modi? the dac and amp are already connected so i guess i wont need to do anything extra for that, idk im confused


Surround sound will work over an optical connection


----------



## toshly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah just looked at the rear i/o, a regular toslink cable is all you need. Sorry for the confusion, I'm doing 4 things at once.


 
oh ok so no adapter


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 10, 2018)

Ah, well newer Creative gear allows sbx to go through the optical out as well, but yes, regularly, SBX only works through the headphone jack. If for some reason your software doesn't have an option to send SBX through the optical out, then you'll need to plug a cable from the headphone jack of the SBZ to the RCA input of the Modi, not the optical input. Look at the program for the SBZ, and see if there is any option to send SBX headphone surround to the optical out. I can't say, as I don't have an SBZ.


----------



## supermaxgaming

Just wanted to ask do any of you get extremely heated ears with the HD 598SE? I have had them for two years now and they have really started giving my heated ears and a headache every time I play COD Blackout. Thinking what the solution is? Whether I should order replacement earpads or just invest in brand new headphones this Black Friday. 

Im torn between the Phillips Fidelio X2,  AD700x and any other you guys recommend in that price range. I will pair them with my Fiio E10k. 

It will be used strictly for competitive FPS to positional awareness is absolute paramount for me. 

Appreciate the help here guys!


----------



## Patrick Kratz

Hey guys!

Do you know if Audio Technica ATH-DSR7BT will work on the Ps4?

If not - Do you know any similar headphones that will work both on iPhone and Ps4?


----------



## Vader2k (Nov 12, 2018)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ooh, I'll be giving this a go in the next few days.
> 
> I hope @Fegefeuer can chime in and tell us if the settings are saving correctly.



Well, I ran the update last night.  I'm still not using line out yet to another dac or amp, but something I did notice was that beforehand, every time I would launch Sound Blaster Connect, the G6 would default to speakers output if I didn't have any headphones plugged in.  After updating, once I set the G6 to headphones output, it would stay in that mode every time I quit and relaunched Sound Blaster Connect.  That has me feeling hopeful it will act accordingly with regard to selecting line out as well.


----------



## toshly

does soundblaster z 5.1 even work through optical out, read conflicting things and i cant get it working


----------



## toshly

sound blaster z spfid out has no windows option for 5.1 and the other option doesnt work


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Z is an old card, so it doesn't surprise me that this option wasn't around then. Internal soundcards are a rare breed nowadays.


----------



## toshly

i read if i buy a xonar 7.1 i can use hesuvi and get any virtual surround through optical out, can anyone here confirm that


----------



## headphonesonly

toshly said:


> sound blaster z spfid out has no windows option for 5.1 and the other option doesnt work


Sbz does have Dolby Digital live so it can output 5.1 through spdif out but you have to activate it through the software not through windows.


----------



## toshly

when i enable digital dolby live with spdif out i just get some horrible buzzing noise


----------



## headphonesonly

toshly said:


> when i enable digital dolby live with spdif out i just get some horrible buzzing noise


That’s because the modi can only decode 2.0 pcm signal. Sending it a dolby 5.1 signal can do that and it will completely disable all sbx effects through optical. I’m not entirely sure if your sound card can output the sbx effects through optical.


----------



## mindbomb

I know the asus xonar dgx, dx, and stx can do dolby headphone over optical, and can also use hesuvi to do many other types of virtual surround sound over optical. The Creative soundblasterx ae5 and creative soundblasterx g6 I think has options for virtual surround sound over headphones over optical in much the same way.


----------



## WK446 (Nov 15, 2018)

The Creative AE-5 can do virtual surround over optical. You are limited to a max sampling rate of 96 kHz. It is quite effective for gaming as you can adjust the strength of the surround effect.


----------



## supermaxgaming

Guys I just bought the Soundblaster G6 after reading MLE's review. I just wanted to understand what you guys recommend the best settings are for "sound whoring" particularily in call of duty etc. I tried playing blackout mode with "scout mode" enabled just out of the box and I have to tell you, I was getting a headache playing because All the "wind, birds, bees" and random stuff like that was really loud. 

I have been using a Fiio E10k so far with my Sennheiser HD598SE and bought the G6 expecting an upgrade to my footstep hearing etc game. Would appreciate some insight on how to set this baby up the correct way as I can't seem to find any guide or settings tips on youtube / forums. 

Thanks!


----------



## headphonesonly

supermaxgaming said:


> Guys I just bought the Soundblaster G6 after reading MLE's review. I just wanted to understand what you guys recommend the best settings are for "sound whoring" particularily in call of duty etc. I tried playing blackout mode with "scout mode" enabled just out of the box and I have to tell you, I was getting a headache playing because All the "wind, birds, bees" and random stuff like that was really loud.
> 
> I have been using a Fiio E10k so far with my Sennheiser HD598SE and bought the G6 expecting an upgrade to my footstep hearing etc game. Would appreciate some insight on how to set this baby up the correct way as I can't seem to find any guide or settings tips on youtube / forums.
> 
> Thanks!


Surround on ultra wide everything else off. That’s it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That is my suggestion as well. Make sure your drivers and firmware are updated so your settings stay saved.

Set it to 7.1 speakers as well. This can be done in the setup menu in the software.


----------



## supermaxgaming

Thanks. What about equalizer? Leave that at default?


----------



## supermaxgaming

Tried your settings but in all honesty I feel that I could decipher footsteps and enemy movements a lot better on my Fiio E10k then I can on the creative G6. Not sure what to do.


----------



## AxelCloris

If you've spent a long time with the E10k and you're trying to do a quick A/B comparison with the G6, maybe try using only the G6 for a week or two then switching back to the E10k.


----------



## supermaxgaming

yeah I think I'll do that! Will get in touch next week


----------



## Yunho

You should see if you can get your hands on the (standalone) Steelseries GameDAC. I've only had mine for two days but I've been pleasantly surprised at how good it is.

I've owned the following USB soundcards/mixamps for use with my PS4 for reference

Turtle Beach TAC
Creative Recon3D USB
Astro Mixamp 2013 and TR edition

This is the only one that has been good enough to use sensitive/multi BA IEMs with in my experience lol (the turtle beach gave me electric shocks with IEMs ...)


----------



## Blinding

Does the Steeleries GameDAC (standalone) supports mic in? From the pictures it seems it only accepts a proprietary connector on the side and it states on their website that the package comes with a 3.5mm adapter, doesnt says anything about mic input.


----------



## headphonesonly

Blinding said:


> Does the Steeleries GameDAC (standalone) supports mic in? From the pictures it seems it only accepts a proprietary connector on the side and it states on their website that the package comes with a 3.5mm adapter, doesnt says anything about mic input.


I’m pretty sure it accepts a 4 pole plug


----------



## Yunho (Nov 20, 2018)

Blinding said:


> Does the Steeleries GameDAC (standalone) supports mic in? From the pictures it seems it only accepts a proprietary connector on the side and it states on their website that the package comes with a 3.5mm adapter, doesnt says anything about mic input.


It comes with a dongle/adapter which supports mic input. You'll have to use an adapter like the Sennheiser PCV05 if you have a headset/setup has seperate outputs/inputs.

It's on sale at Steelseries for 75USD due to Black Friday/Cyber Monday if you login to an account. Which is why I have one lol.


----------



## Clean6eR

Yunho said:


> It comes with a dongle/adapter which supports mic input. You'll have to use an adapter like the Sennheiser PCV05 if you have a headset/setup has seperate outputs/inputs.
> 
> It's on sale at Steelseries for 75USD due to Black Friday/Cyber Monday if you login to an account. Which is why I have one lol.


i like mine too, compared to most if not all other gaming level dacs (gsx is the only one i dont own) i would say this is the best one.

that sale price is VERY good value!!! i got mine with the headset and it didnt have a adapter so i cant test it with other headsets which is a shame, the arctis pro is an ok gaming headset and the leather style pads were a comfort upgrade! anyone know if you can buy the adapter thing anywhere?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Nov 21, 2018)

How good is that Gamedac with its VSS in comparison to SBX? How loud does it get with something like the PC37X?
I have updated the G6 and sometimes I have to cycle it on and off to get my VSS back. Thankfully the settings are permanent now, making me not touch the control panel (under Windows) anymore, except for OCD confirmation once I decide I turn off the PC and start the PS4.

Never appreciated the GSX's driver/softwareless features more (I don't own one). If Sennheiser decides to release a GSX device for both consoles and PC with all the usual wanted features of this thread's frequent users. Well, wouldn't that be beyond amazing?


----------



## illram

So what does the Gamedac use for its Dolby VSS DSP for Xbox One? Dolby Headphone I assume? Their webpage only mentions "headphone" DTS:X which I thought was different.


----------



## Clean6eR (Nov 21, 2018)

illram said:


> So what does the Gamedac use for its Dolby VSS DSP for Xbox One? Dolby Headphone I assume? Their webpage only mentions "headphone" DTS:X which I thought was different.


the gamedac has three modes ,

*pc *
(this has two soundcards in windows, one used for stereo chat and the second for 7.1/5.1/stereo. it apply s dts:x to the 7.1 sound card and leaves the chat channel untouched, you can mix the chat and game channels in this modes)

*ps4*
( same as pc mode, but the game channel is from the optical port, it takes Dolby 5.1 signal, it decodes this then applied the dts:x algorithm to that 5.1 stream)


the last is *hi res* mode,
( just a single stereo sound card in windows that supports up to 24/96khz no processing happens here, but it still has working mic)

*side tone* works on ALL modes and can be varied between low mid and high.

sadly i dont have the adapter cable so cant test my pc360 headset with it.


*Xbox*
i have one but have never hooked this up to it, it looks a total mess according to this page but hope this helps:
https://support.steelseries.com/hc/...es-the-Arctis-Pro-GameDAC-work-with-Xbox-ONE-


----------



## Yunho (Nov 21, 2018)

illram said:


> So what does the Gamedac use for its Dolby VSS DSP for Xbox One? Dolby Headphone I assume? Their webpage only mentions "headphone" DTS:X which I thought was different.


 The VSS it uses is a newer iteration of DTS X Headphone. It's different to Dolby Headphone (however this device doesn't decode DTS signals).

It sounds dramatically better than the iteration used in the Turtle Beach TAC if anyone here has tried that device. The VSS on that device made games literally sound like you were in a cargo container ... with really hollow audio (with VSS on).



Clean6eR said:


> i like mine too, compared to most if not all other gaming level dacs (gsx is the only one i dont own) i would say this is the best one.
> 
> that sale price is VERY good value!!! i got mine with the headset and it didnt have a adapter so i cant test it with other headsets which is a shame, the arctis pro is an ok gaming headset and the leather style pads were a comfort upgrade! anyone know if you can buy the adapter thing anywhere?



It's not listed on their site. But you could try and ask support if they could provide one?
There is a Japanese blogger/reviewer who managed to make a ghetto workaround using the mobile adapter seen here (with mic working) http://www.sassanblog.com/entry/GameDAC-1



Fegefeuer said:


> How good is that Gamedac with its VSS in comparison to SBX? How loud does it get with something like the PC37X?
> I have updated the G6 and sometimes I have to cycle it on and off to get my VSS back. Thankfully the settings are permanent now, making me not touch the control panel (under Windows) anymore, except for OCD confirmation once I decide I turn off the PC and start the PS4.
> 
> Never appreciated the GSX's driver/softwareless features more (I don't own one). If Sennheiser decides to release a GSX device for both consoles and PC with all the usual wanted features of this thread's frequent users. Well, wouldn't that be beyond amazing?



I don't have a 37X but I do have the older G4ME One headset before they made the newer models with the detachable cable. It drives them okay, not to ear shattering levels however. But they have a 16-80ohm recommendation for headphones/sets on the box.

Haven't used recent SBX devices unfortunately. So I can't chime in with how the VSS compares.

EDIT: And yes I'd love for Sennheiser to make a PC/PS4 soundcard.


----------



## Clean6eR

Yunho said:


> The VSS it uses is a newer iteration of DTS X Headphone. It's different to Dolby Headphone (however this device doesn't decode DTS signals).
> 
> It's not listed on their site. But you could try and ask support if they could provide one?
> There is a Japanese blogger/reviewer who managed to make a ghetto workaround using the mobile adapter seen here (with mic working) http://www.sassanblog.com/entry/GameDAC-1
> .


LEGEND thank you!


----------



## mbyrnes

z1ggy said:


> Do you game with them at all?
> 
> Also semi off topic, but.. does Massdrop let you return product you don't like? Not sure I could buy a drop blindly if I couldn't return for a refund if I didn't like the sound.



I game with them constantly. They're awesome for gaming and movies. If you didn't like them I don't think they take returns at Massdrop. You could easily sell them for close to purchase price I'd imagine.


----------



## Ir0n

I am in the market for a pair of fun oriented headphones.

For competitive use I have a pair of K702's but for single player gaming and occasional music listening (ratio around 70/30 in favor of gaming) I would like to complement the K702's with something that has a bit more punch.
Amp and DAC are available (Schiit 3 stack).
Plan to spend up to 350 € - after some initial research I am looking at the X2s, K712s, HE-400s, Pro 900s and the 650s but I am not necessarily locked into those in particular.

Recommendations highly appreciated!


----------



## headphonesonly

Does the gamedac output vss to the line out port like the g6?


----------



## illram

Yunho said:


> The VSS it uses is a newer iteration of DTS X Headphone. It's different to Dolby Headphone (however this device doesn't decode DTS signals).
> 
> It sounds dramatically better than the iteration used in the Turtle Beach TAC if anyone here has tried that device. The VSS on that device made games literally sound like you were in a cargo container ... with really hollow audio (with VSS on).
> .



Interesting, thanks. So it will do VSS on the Xbox then, but with chat complications. I might try this just because I am curious to try every VSS under the sun...


----------



## Clean6eR

headphonesonly said:


> Does the gamedac output vss to the line out port like the g6?


hi,
Just hooked it up to a stax srm-006t and my sr-507 via the line out on the gamedac. it does apply surround sound but only when in pc or ps4 mode not in the hi res mode, but this is as expected as the hi res mode is stereo only anyway.

I'm comparing the line out on this to the balanced out on a musical fidelity mx dac, and i must say its much lower output level and also has noise but its acceptable and also an unfair comparison.


----------



## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That is my suggestion as well. Make sure your drivers and firmware are updated so your settings stay saved.
> 
> *Set it to 7.1 speakers as well*. This can be done in the setup menu in the software.



I thought you and @Fegefeuer were discussing earlier in the thread that 5.1 sounded better than 7.1 (on console, at least) because those additional 2 channels sounded kinda fake and over-processed?


----------



## Vader2k

Yunho said:


> It comes with a dongle/adapter which supports mic input. You'll have to use an adapter like the Sennheiser PCV05 if you have a headset/setup has seperate outputs/inputs.
> 
> It's on sale at Steelseries for 75USD due to Black Friday/Cyber Monday if you login to an account. Which is why I have one lol.



Thanks for the mention.  $64.99, no tax, free shipping.  Curiosity got the better of me, so I snagged one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think the GSX1000 died on me. It won't display anything or connect anymore. @Sennheiser needs to have an on/off switch for it next time. 



Vader2k said:


> I thought you and @Fegefeuer were discussing earlier in the thread that 5.1 sounded better than 7.1 (on console, at least) because those additional 2 channels sounded kinda fake and over-processed?



I dunno having tested it recently, 7.1 sounds better to me now. I haven't been doing to much testing lately, and have been mostly using the Mobius which you know has its own dsp.


----------



## toshly

does ae5 optical out support surround sound, quick it's on offer xD


----------



## headphonesonly

toshly said:


> does ae5 optical out support surround sound, quick it's on offer xD


Yes


----------



## Got the Shakes

I have a question of something I just noticed with the G6. The manual says that he middle light on the right hand side is supposed to illuminate if Dolby Digital is input. The light on the far right is really bright for headphone output, but the middle one for DD is very faint. How bright is it supposed to be? I'm trying to figure out if the G6 for some reason not detecting that DD is being input or if it is and the indicator light is just really faint.


----------



## illram

Got the Shakes said:


> I have a question of something I just noticed with the G6. The manual says that he middle light on the right hand side is supposed to illuminate if Dolby Digital is input. The light on the far right is really bright for headphone output, but the middle one for DD is very faint. How bright is it supposed to be? I'm trying to figure out if the G6 for some reason not detecting that DD is being input or if it is and the indicator light is just really faint.









It's the same as the other light. It does bleed through so it's not easy to tell.


----------



## Got the Shakes

illram said:


> It's the same as the other light. It does bleed through so it's not easy to tell.



Thanks. I just realized that I don’t think it’s detecting Dolby over optical and now it’s going to drive me nuts trying to figure out why.


----------



## illram

Got the Shakes said:


> Thanks. I just realized that I don’t think it’s detecting Dolby over optical and now it’s going to drive me nuts trying to figure out why.


I think the Windows app also had an indicator on the bottom of the window.


----------



## Got the Shakes

You’re right. And still I’m not getting it to detect Dolby digital out of either my Xbox One X or PS4 Pro. I know for a fact that they outputting DD, not sure why the G6 isn’t picking it up.


----------



## illram

If you double checked that they are both bistreaming Dolby digital out via optical, then it sounds like your unit is faulty.


----------



## OmegaWrex

Hey the Sound Blaster Connect software has been updated today with these fixes


Fix HRTF setting not saved when switching modes (requires latest firmware)
Reduce EQ gain to +/- 12dB
Fix Device cannot be detected error when no internet connection
Add option to turn off Vol and Direct Mode LED (requires latest firmware)
Driver update
Reorganize Menu system for easy access
Optimize screen size
I haven't had a chance yet to test it out


----------



## Got the Shakes

You’re right, the Windows app does.

So I seemed to have fixed my issues. The G6 didn’t like the USB cable I was using to power it. I bought one a bit longer than the stock one and when I switched back to the one the G6 came with everything started working as intended.


----------



## illram

Went back to the X7 today after a long time with the G6. I'm still convinced the X7's VSS is superior. Anyone else feel this way or am I crazy? I guess I am just surprised/disappointed as there is no reason the software implementation of SBX should differ between these two devices. Other than artificially making one product less effective than the other but I don't know why they'd need to do that with two products that already have totally different feature sets.


----------



## Hunrain82

Hello!
I have an Sbx G5. Using it with Xbox one, Ps4 and pc with a Sennheiser HD599. Is it worth it to sell the G5 and buy a G6? Anyone changed the G5 to G6? Thanks!


----------



## Aliv3

Anyone's known if the g6 support chat on Xbox? And the virtual sorround thing is also supported or is only on Pc? 
Thanks


----------



## Got the Shakes

Aliv3 said:


> Anyone's known if the g6 support chat on Xbox? And the virtual sorround thing is also supported or is only on Pc?
> Thanks



No chat on Xbox. The virtual surround will work on Xbox via optical cable and making sure your Xbox is set to output Dolby Digital.


----------



## Aliv3

Got the Shakes said:


> No chat on Xbox. The virtual surround will work on Xbox via optical cable and making sure your Xbox is set to output Dolby Digital.


That's a shame. How do we communicate with our teammates them? Is the astro mix amp a good option?
Thanks.


----------



## raf1919

I just snagged the Gamedac good price curiosity got me.  Will test it on my PS4 with SHP9900, M50X, Might pickup the HD599 or HD58X as well.   I also might try  PS4 > gamedac > Darkvoice amp > headphones.     I only game on PS4 and I have no interest in talking to anyone so I never use a mic so just want good sound for FPS.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

raf1919 said:


> I just snagged the Gamedac good price curiosity got me.  Will test it on my PS4 with SHP9900, M50X, Might pickup the HD599 or HD58X as well.   I also might try  PS4 > gamedac > Darkvoice amp > headphones.     I only game on PS4 and I have no interest in talking to anyone so I never use a mic so just want good sound for FPS.



My GameDac should arrive tomorrow here - less than half price so couldn't resist!
Keen to compare with my Creative G6.  Not expecting it to beat that of course but if it gets close (suing my Game Ones and HD58x) then the addition of on device voice/chat balance control might make it a keeper for PS4 use


----------



## ImBryan

Hey guys, I'm assuming this probably doesn't exist in my price range ($300) but is there a headphone with close to or near ad700x competitiveness that is still good for listening to music?

If not I might end up just getting a pair for music and a pair for gaming..


----------



## Clean6eR

ImBryan said:


> Hey guys, I'm assuming this probably doesn't exist in my price range ($300) but is there a headphone with close to or near ad700x competitiveness that is still good for listening to music?
> 
> If not I might end up just getting a pair for music and a pair for gaming..



k701 or q701 both have wide soundstages but less dry than the ad700.(they get punch with the right amp) k712 and 702 are slightly closer feeling but also warmer

not sure what others will say about this sound stage wise but the philips x2 was really fun and pretty open sounding...


----------



## PurpleAngel

ImBryan said:


> Hey guys, I'm assuming this probably doesn't exist in my price range ($300) but is there a headphone with close to or near ad700x competitiveness that is still good for listening to music?
> 
> If not I might end up just getting a pair for music and a pair for gaming..


My two cents, keep using the AD700X for FPS gaming and get separate headphones for music (& movies?).
Check out the Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X.
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones


----------



## MassEffectFan

Hello all! Just joined this site.  I'm loving this thread! Tons of useful info, good gaming headphone guides are difficult to find.

Has anyone used the Sennheiser HD 598 Cs for gaming? They're the closed back variant of the HD 598 (there are significant sonic differences between the two).  I did some research on these and I suspect they're one of the best options for a closed back gaming headphone, but hard to know until someone tests them.  I'm seeing a ton of participation on this thread, it's pretty awesome.


----------



## Yethal

Probably an edge case scenario but if anybody here uses X7/G6 as a DSP only and outputs to wireless headphones, know that you can now add a microphone to your setup without sacrificing convenience.


----------



## illram

Good god that is expensive.


----------



## Hunrain82

Is there anyone who replaced the Sound BlasterX G5 to G6? Is it worth it?


----------



## headphonesonly

Just got the gamedac and I’m kind of disappointed with it. The sound and positional audio is great but I can’t get enough volume even with my amp connected to it. Maybe it’s the amp I’m using. Won’t know for sure till I get my JDS atom amp.


----------



## Yunho

headphonesonly said:


> Just got the gamedac and I’m kind of disappointed with it. The sound and positional audio is great but I can’t get enough volume even with my amp connected to it. Maybe it’s the amp I’m using. Won’t know for sure till I get my JDS atom amp.



The lineout is pretty bad from my experience. I tried it for a day with my powered monitors and I had to crank the volume on them up to the point where I was hearing hiss on Twitch streams. 

The weak lineout and it not being immune to picking up interference from a (launch) PS4's usb ports when charging a controller are my biggest gripes with it. Though it's an upgrade from the 2013 Astro Mixamp which would distort when you'd do something as simple as adjust the master volume wheel I suppose.


----------



## WK446

I have these cans. I play mostly Fortnite and COD Blackout. They are decent, cost effective, and easy to drive without a dedicated ampliflier. If you require closed back headphones, it is a decent option. They have a microphone which means it is compatible with smartphones, at least those with a headphone jack. I've tested them on a Nintendo Switch and it works as well. However, unless you using a sound card or sound processor that can expand the soundstage or add spatial information, there may be other solutions. 

The main issue is spatial information and cues. The soundstage on these cans is not terribly expansive. What this means is that cues such as enemy footsteps or  gliders flying about, maybe more difficult to localize and pinpoint. 

They are decently comfortable and seem durable. 





MassEffectFan said:


> Hello all! Just joined this site.  I'm loving this thread! Tons of useful info, good gaming headphone guides are difficult to find.
> 
> Has anyone used the Sennheiser HD 598 Cs for gaming? They're the closed back variant of the HD 598 (there are significant sonic differences between the two).  I did some research on these and I suspect they're one of the best options for a closed back gaming headphone, but hard to know until someone tests them.  I'm seeing a ton of participation on this thread, it's pretty awesome.


----------



## MassEffectFan

Thanks so much for the reply!  So the closed HD 598 C has a somewhat narrow soundstage hey?  That's good to know, I'll definitely keep that in mind.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given that it's a closed headphone. 

I was mostly considering because I read the scientific tests rtings.com did on it and it looks like it has superbly low distortion and a low-bass response that seems perfect for my tastes (~1.5-2 decibels below neutral).  But if it does a mediocre job of reproducing positional cues, I'll look at something else.  Thanks again!

What about the Beyerdynamic DT 990?  I went on rtings.com to see exactly what their sound signature is like and I think I'll like it quite a bit.  I have headphones with a very similar treble response and quite like their treble, so I'm not concerned about their treble overemphasis.  But will they do a good job of positional audio?  Judging by what rtings.com has to say about them, and what Mad Lust Envy has to say about them, I'm guessing that they will.  Judging by the scientific measurements provided by rtings.com, they have very low THD even at 90db, and a sub-bass that's about 1.5 db below neutral (perfect sub-bass for gaming IMO).  But I'd be curious to see what others have to say about them, are they a good choice for gaming?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Been pretty pleased with the GameDac (actually more than just pleased for £65!). I'm playing mainly Battlefield 5 with it so running in stereo mode with the 3D audio option selected in game.  It sounds nice and 'clean' and balanced with my Game Ones.  Anything less efficient than these would be a problem though - I can get enough volume but there isn't much headroom left to drive more difficult headphones. Creative G6 so much better in that respect.  Addition on on-device control for Game/Chat balance means I'll likely keep it over the G6 for PS4 use though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Creative SUPER X-FI X8 with DUAL HDMI in, 1x HDMI out and 9.1.4 SBX? WHEN? 
Sennheiser GSX 2000 and GSX 2200 Pro with USB, optical in/out (GSX over SPDIF basically), AC3/DTS console support. WHEN? 

yeah I don't trust Sennheiser to launch anything with HDMI but Creative? Man, they are so long in the business but still hesitate.


----------



## MassEffectFan (Nov 29, 2018)

That GameDac looks pretty sweet, although tbh unless you need the mic/game volume control or EQ options the Creative X G6 or X G5 probably offers better value.  IMO a Creative E1+Topping D30/Schiit Modi 3 combo is probably the best amp/dac combo under $200 for console gamers who are willing to do without surround sound or mic volume control.  However, you would have to get cables, and have an optical port at the back of your console or TV (unless you purchased an HDMI audio converter as well, but that could possibly degrade picture quality/introduce lag if you got a bad one).  So you would need:

https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Headphone-Amplifier-Integrated-Smartphones/dp/B00J2JATL0/ (Creative E1: $50)

https://www.amazon.com/TOPPING-D30-Decoder-Coaxial-Optical/dp/B06XKS9W8T/ (Topping D30: $120)

http://www.schiit.com/products/modi-1 (Modi 3: $100+shipping, performance on par with D30 but usually available only on Schiit website, import fees make it a poor choice for those outside U.S)

https://www.amazon.com/RiteAV-Feet-3-5mm-Stereo-Cable/dp/B01M15CP04 (RCA male to 3.5mm male cable: $8 for 12ft),

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Digital-Optical-Audio-Toslink/dp/B00NH11H38 (Optical cable: $6 for 6ft).

Ultimately, you would be paying anywhere from $164-$184 depending on the DAC you purchased, and you would get phenomenal audio quality.  For $100 you could get a JDS atom instead of the E1, but the small (quite possibly imperceptible) improvement in audio quality over the E1 would not be enough to justify the higher price tag and inconvenience of using a plugin amp.  I don't remember how to use an amp/dac with a headphone+mic and still get chat capability (could somebody please explain how?) but I assume it's possible because I see people recommending the Fiio E10k all the time.

What do you all think of this idea?  Is anyone interested in trying this out?  I'm currently using a Topping D30 with my portable amp and a Philips SHP 9500.  Games/CDs sound clear and detailed, and the D30 has made it significantly easier to pick up on positional cues.

Sorry long post, there was a lot to explain.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No VST no party. I don't think anyone that frequents this thread often would bother without VST but I like the effort of your post.



Spoiler: :G



UNLESS THE DAY COMES WHERE MLE ANNOUNCES HAVING BECOME A DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMER. THAT WILL BE THE DAY WHERE I SIGN OFF THIS THREAD FOR GOOD.


----------



## MassEffectFan (Nov 29, 2018)

You're probably right  *Fegefeuer.  *I appreciate the like! But while I don't have any experience with VSS, I tend to doubt that it would improve the positional accuracy of a great gaming headphone (probably an open headphone with good imaging, forward mids and/or treble, rolled-off sub-bass, and a speaker-like soundstage) more than a similar-priced stereo dac/amp setup. However, I'm not convinced the setup I suggested would be a lot better than the G6 in stereo, and of course I'm not absolutely certain that stereo is best.  I'm just hoping that posts like mine will encourage people to try their headphones with both a high-quality VSS setup _and _a high-quality stereo setup to determine what is best for them, rather than blindly assuming VSS is necessary.  At the very least, I think VSS has the ability to improve the soundstage of a mediocre or bad gaming headphone, to an extent that stereo cannot.


----------



## Lay.

I think most of the guys who participate in this thread don't have bad/mediocre gaming headphones or at least they are seeking for better alternatives. For example in my case, the Soundblaster G6 is the cheapest part of the system and I don't even use the amp of it.


----------



## Yunho

I get where you're coming from MassEffectFan.

For me though, I'm okay with taking a potential hit to overall sound quality using devices such as the Astro Mixamp or Gamedac (or even gaming headsets) due to the convenience of having a simple setup. That and features such as game audio and chat balancing on console.

If I didn't do much online gaming on consoles though I'd probably be rocking a setup similar to what you posted. When I'm not playing with friends however, I just have the optical audio from my TV being sent to my speakers.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

For me - chat balance on the fly would make the G6 my perfect device.  Without it it just frustrates me and many times in online sessions I've had to go back to just plugging the headset into the PS4 pad **shudder**.

I'm in the same boat as @Yunho above - I'll take a hit on audio quality to get the convenience I need for console use.  Think Creative missed a trick when they promote (heavily) PS4 compatibility but then don't include a pretty vital feature (for online gamers at least).  Besides, if I was just looking for a single player device, I'd probably stick with a good optical DAC and give up VSS altogether.


----------



## MassEffectFan

Lay. said:


> I think most of the guys who participate in this thread don't have bad/mediocre gaming headphones or at least they are seeking for better alternatives. For example in my case, the Soundblaster G6 is the cheapest part of the system and I don't even use the amp of it.



For sure. It seems that gamers are becoming increasingly aware that audio can substantially improve their performance, while also making their experiences more immersive.  As I say, I hope that they won't decide on surround without trying stereo first.  But I'm impressed with how far VSS has come, and how good gaming-oriented audio products have become.  I probably will end up trying VSS at some point to see if it would help, although for me I'm basically in the opposite position of being unwilling to sacrifice some measure of audio quality for something that might improve positional accuracy (not absolutely sure it would), partly due to not playing competitively atm.  If upon trying VSS I found it made a pretty dramatic difference, I might stick with it.  Although I don't currently play online, I do find the positional accuracy that headphones provide to be a huge, even indispensable advantage in many of the games I play.  It's also just satisfying to know that I can pinpoint the location of enemies with sound alone, makes me feel like I have superpowers.


----------



## MassEffectFan (Nov 29, 2018)

@ MadLustEnvy would you mind telling me roughly how you would rate the Game One as a "fun" headphone?  I'm confident it would help me perform well, but how does it compare to something like the DT 990, or the HD 598 for fun factor?

And does anyone else want to weigh in on this?  How is the Game One for fun factor?


----------



## mindbomb (Nov 29, 2018)

MassEffectFan said:


> You're probably right  *Fegefeuer.  *I appreciate the like! But while I don't have any experience with VSS, I tend to doubt that it would improve the positional accuracy of a great gaming headphone (probably an open headphone with good imaging, forward mids and/or treble, rolled-off sub-bass, and a speaker-like soundstage) more than a similar-priced stereo dac/amp setup. However, I'm not convinced the setup I suggested would be a lot better than the G6 in stereo, and of course I'm not absolutely certain that stereo is best.  I'm just hoping that posts like mine will encourage people to try their headphones with both a high-quality VSS setup _and _a high-quality stereo setup to determine what is best for them, rather than blindly assuming VSS is necessary.  At the very least, I think VSS has the ability to improve the soundstage of a mediocre or bad gaming headphone, to an extent that stereo cannot.



Let's back up and think about what the limitations of stereo are and what virtual surround sound does. Since stereo is 2 channels, it creates a fundamental limitation where you can only have 2 distinct directions, left and right. To hear front and back, you have to turn in game, and listen for the change in channel balance, because you don't have those directions natively.

With 7.1 virtual surround sound for headphones, you take the 7.1 audio from the game, and convert it to a binaural mix for headphones. This means you take into account the effects of the outer ear, head and room, and how it effects one ear relative to the other depending on where the sound is coming from. For example, a sound 30 degrees to the left will hit the left ear first, get certain frequencies amplified by the left outer ear because of the angle, get it's high frequencies cut by the head as it passes to the right side, hit the right ear second with a different sound profile because of what it's gone through, then bounce off the room and hit the right side again with yet another sound profile. There is a pattern there that encodes the direction, and it is distinct for 30 degrees left vs 150 degrees left.  This information is absent in regular stereo headphone listening, and why there can't be a distinction between those different directions - there is just one left on stereo.

The entire system where you are subconsciously cross referencing the same sound as it travels over time and changes as it hits different structures is missing with normal stereo headphone listening, and is responsible for the poor imaging. That's not something you can fix just by getting better headphones, you have to use a virtual surround sound system to add that information back digitally.

Here is a demonstration where the lack of information in stereo causes problems in tracking an object (at 2m42s).


Because there isn't a distinction between front and back in stereo, there are multiple plausible ways the object could be moving, and there isn't a way to know which is correct. Only with virtual surround sound (baked into the video) do you have enough information to know how the object is moving.


----------



## PurpleAngel

MassEffectFan said:


> @ MadLustEnvy would you mind telling me roughly how you would rate the Game One as a "fun" headphone?  I'm confident it would help me perform well, but how does it compare to something like the DT 990, or the HD 598 for fun factor?
> And does anyone else want to weigh in on this?  How is the Game One for fun factor?


The Sennheiser Game One and HD-598 are both 50-Ohm, so chances are use the (basically) same driver.
But differences in cup design might effect the sound.
The DT990 is strong bass/treble, I like to think of it as movie theater sound.
I like to think of my Soundmagic HP200 as an improved DT990.
Currently I'm getting a good "fun" sound from my Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X


----------



## WK446 (Nov 29, 2018)

You are most welcome.

Closed headphones for gaming have a place, but ones that have a large soundstage generally cost far more than the equivalent open version.

One of the main problems is where your gaming rig/system is located. With an open headphone, you will likely disturb someone if you game into the wee hours.

It is a bit about compromise. Price is a factor. Purpose is a factor, i.e., do you want a good set of cans that are musical as well as excellent for gaming or do you want something dedicated for gaming.

I have had the opportunity to listen to a number of cans at headphone meets and some Beyerdynamics are better than others. I might have a sensitivity to the treble on Beyers while you might not and think they are superb. Here lies the difficulty in chosing sound that is very personal.

I did think the HD598CS were quite good until I started listening to other headphones. It's a very slippery slope. I have cans that are for gaming only as well as others for music/gaming. I do own the Sennheiser Game One as well as the Sennheiser/MD PC37X. Both of latter mentioned cans are far superior for gaming in addition to excellent built-in microphones. I still have the HD598CS.






MassEffectFan said:


> Thanks so much for the reply!  So the closed HD 598 C has a somewhat narrow soundstage hey?  That's good to know, I'll definitely keep that in mind.  I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given that it's a closed headphone.
> 
> I was mostly considering because I read the scientific tests rtings.com did on it and it looks like it has superbly low distortion and a low-bass response that seems perfect for my tastes (~1.5-2 decibels below neutral).  But if it does a mediocre job of reproducing positional cues, I'll look at something else.  Thanks again!
> 
> What about the Beyerdynamic DT 990?  I went on rtings.com to see exactly what their sound signature is like and I think I'll like it quite a bit.  I have headphones with a very similar treble response and quite like their treble, so I'm not concerned about their treble overemphasis.  But will they do a good job of positional audio?  Judging by what rtings.com has to say about them, and what Mad Lust Envy has to say about them, I'm guessing that they will.  Judging by the scientific measurements provided by rtings.com, they have very low THD even at 90db, and a sub-bass that's about 1.5 db below neutral (perfect sub-bass for gaming IMO).  But I'd be curious to see what others have to say about them, are they a good choice for gaming?


----------



## MassEffectFan

mindbomb said:


> Let's back up and think about what the limitations of stereo are and what virtual surround sound does. Since stereo is 2 channels, it creates a fundamental limitation where you can only have 2 distinct directions, left and right. To hear front and back, you have to turn in game, and listen for the change in channel balance, because you don't have those directions natively.
> 
> With 7.1 virtual surround sound for headphones, you take the 7.1 audio from the game, and convert it to a binaural mix for headphones. This means you take into account the effects of the outer ear, head and room, and how it effects one ear relative to the other depending on where the sound is coming from. For example, a sound 30 degrees to the left will hit the left ear first, get certain frequencies amplified by the left outer ear because of the angle, get it's high frequencies cut by the head as it passes to the right side, hit the right ear second with a different sound profile because of what it's gone through, then bounce off the room and hit the right side again with yet another sound profile. There is a pattern there that encodes the direction, and it is distinct for 30 degrees left vs 150 degrees left.  This information is absent in regular stereo headphone listening, and why there can't be a distinction between those different directions - there is just one left on stereo.
> 
> ...




I can definitely hear front and back even with stereo headphones, and am able to get a decent sense of front-left, front-right, back-left, back-right, center-left, center-right, etc.  Depending on where objects are located, I hear them as more or less forward on the left or right channel, while an object directly in front of me, sounds hit the front of both the left and right channels simultaneously.  However, given what you've said I wouldn't be surprised if VSS improved positional accuracy.  When I listened to MadLustEnvy's VSS recording of Skyrim's opening scene, it seemed more like I was hearing one sound field and less like listening to two separate sound fields. That demonstration looks particularly interesting, I will have to watch that when I get home (don't have headphones with me atm).


----------



## MassEffectFan

Ok thanks for the advice Purple Angel, I'll definitely keep that in mind. 

WK446 that's good to know, I will stick to open headphones.  I honestly don't need the isolation a closed headphone provides.  I live with my parents and play video games but I game in the basement and they're upstairs so they never hear anything unless they're in the room with me.  My Dad's hearing is mediocre at best anyway lol.  I was mostly drawn to closed back options due to their richer sub-bass response.  A lot of them seem to produce less distortion than open headphones as well, judging by rtings.com reviews.  I wish there was some solid-state amp with a bass boost restricted to 20-60 hz.  I also wish there was a greater variety of open phones with a more pronounced 20-60 hz region, but I think I might end up sacrificing low-bass and purchasing something like an HD 598/game one.  Or what about the HD 599?  Does it do a good job of positional audio?  I looked at rtings.com's tests/graphs illustrating its frequency response and it looks good (seems to have significantly more punch in the 20-60 hz region than most open headphones), and seems to have a similar soundstage to that of the HD 598, but it also looks like its drivers aren't as well-matched in terms of volume/frequency response.  

Has anyone used the HD 599 for gaming?  How does it perform in terms of positional accuracy?


----------



## mindbomb (Nov 29, 2018)

MassEffectFan said:


> I can definitely hear front and back even with stereo headphones, and am able to get a decent sense of front-left, front-right, back-left, back-right, center-left, center-right, etc.  Depending on where objects are located, I hear them as more or less forward on the left or right channel, while an object directly in front of me, sounds hit the front of both the left and right channels simultaneously.  However, given what you've said I wouldn't be surprised if VSS improved positional accuracy.  When I listened to MadLustEnvy's VSS recording of Skyrim's opening scene, it seemed more like I was hearing one sound field and less like listening to two separate sound fields. That demonstration looks particularly interesting, I will have to watch that when I get home (don't have headphones with me atm).



With stereo headphones, you can't natively hear front and back, you have to rely on moving your mouse to the left and right in game (assuming a pc fps), to create pans in different directions, which imply front or back. Otherwise there is no mechanism that indicates whether a sound is intended to be in the front or back, and no mechanism to create the perception of front or back.

A real world example of this is looting in black ops 4. Since you can't turn while looting, front/back is ambiguous on stereo, but you can tell the difference with virtual surround sound. Or in Overwatch, after spawn, people often walk in straight lines to a choke. On stereo, this makes them extra vulnerable to sneaky flankers camping outside spawn that are looking to attack from behind.


----------



## MassEffectFan

Ok I'll keep that in mind.  I may eventually get VSS, if I start playing competitively I'll almost certainly give it a shot


----------



## Clean6eR

Some people are very sensitive to lag. Play super mario on a crt then on a 4k tv using a framiester and jumping at the right time is a challenge. Vss also adds a processing delay. If you watch an interview on youtube and flick it on and off you might tell by looking at their mouths move in time to the audio. Some cant tell and the majority adjust to it quickly anyway. If i play a round of overwatch with vss on then off i find off to feel very conected, with it on it feels much more envoloping and immersive but also more surreal. If the device adds vss to the chat channel to i wont use it in comp at all if i need closed back if voice monitor has any delay i cant use it. If i want vss only turtle beach tac (too much hiss and chat channel is low quality but useable) astro mix amp tr (good but voice monitor is very quiet) or best of all steelseries gamedac (does it all, line out to hp amp is naff but to speakers is ok, hp out on it is good, chat cannel, good vss, good,monitor,good!) But i prefer the direct feeling so my audio setup is gamedac and arctis pro as one option, mackie onyx and shure sm58 beta mic and beyer t70 for good mic audio when gaming online, and musical fedilty mx dac and mx hpa balanced into hd800 if i want to hear alot in my game, using onyx for mic.


----------



## JoshMo87

Hey so I’ve got HD58X’s and I’m looking for a dac/amp for console. The G6 sounds nice but would something like the SMSL M3 be better purely from a sound quality perspective? VSS sounds nice, I just don’t know if it’s worth the extra $$$ if a cheaper piece can produce better sound. I’m also pretty new to this type of stuff, so forgive me if I ask a dumb question.


----------



## headphonesonly

JoshMo87 said:


> Hey so I’ve got HD58X’s and I’m looking for a dac/amp for console. The G6 sounds nice but would something like the SMSL M3 be better purely from a sound quality perspective? VSS sounds nice, I just don’t know if it’s worth the extra $$$ if a cheaper piece can produce better sound. I’m also pretty new to this type of stuff, so forgive me if I ask a dumb question.


They’re both going to sound the same. The only thing that makes the g6 a little bit better is the mic input.


----------



## JoshMo87

headphonesonly said:


> They’re both going to sound the same. The only thing that makes the g6 a little bit better is the mic input.


Gotcha, well in your opinion do you thing the G6 is worth the higher price for VSS and whatnot? Keep in mind I’ll be using it on console 90% of the time.


----------



## illram

JoshMo87 said:


> Gotcha, well in your opinion do you thing the G6 is worth the higher price for VSS and whatnot? Keep in mind I’ll be using it on console 90% of the time.



It's hard to really answer this as whether you like Virtual Surround is really subjective. Personally I can't game without it anymore. I also don't think there is really much of a sacrifice in audio quality depending on how you tweak the settings. SBX is less reverby than others and retains more of the authentic sound.

If you can, try testing out VSS in a PC game with something free like HeSuVi or a free trial of Waves NX or even Out of Your Head. If you like it then the G6 is absolutely worth it.


----------



## MassEffectFan (Nov 30, 2018)

Never heard of the M3 but I know other SMSL products have performed well, can't say for sure that the M3 would.  That or what I suggested is probably your best bet purely for SQ.  The atom would be better than the E1 but it costs more.  The topping NX3 would offer higher fidelity than E1 but would likely clip on high gain, and I'm not sure if it could drive the HD 58x except on high gain.  However, the differences between that and a Creative X G5/G6 would be slight, and Creative offers a ton of features even for console gamers (ex. you can set up EQ presets on PC and they should carry over to console.)

So the X G5/G6 is probably your best bet overall.  However, note that as far as I know SBX surround doesn't work on console, although the G6 can decode dolby digital surround on console so that's nice.


----------



## illram (Dec 1, 2018)

As others also have done, I went for the recent GameDAC sale, and gave it a try tonight on the Xbox One with COD: Black Ops 4. Impressions can be summed up as: I am happy with the G6, and definitely X7, over it.

Very underpowered even at "High" gain. My 598's are not that hard to drive and I need to turn the unit up close to 100% to get it acceptably loud. Running it direct from the unit, there is hiss at high volumes.
Tried my Koss ESP950 using its lineout into the Koss Energizer. Eliminated the hiss, but still needed to crank it to 100% volume as well.
The stage is closed in and overly reverby. Definitely has the "sounds like you are in a box," effect which is undesirable. On a revealing headphone that does not really have a very wide natural stage like the Koss, it was basically unlistenable. (SBX on the Koss, on the other hand, creates a very nice and large artificial stage). On the HD598 it was more tolerable and I more or less got used to it, but it still sounded overly artificial.
The channel separation is too abrupt. It is more or less like stereo in how shifting your view abruptly moves sound from one speaker to another. 5.1 shows its limitations here when there is not adequate panning from one channel to another. I wouldn't say rear cues were well defined other than rear left and rear right. Inadequate panning meant there was no real "behind" you audio cues since it really wants to put the noise in one rear channel or the other.
It's very bright. Almost piercing. Treble noises like gunshots are super loud while other frequencies are not as high, which is a problem since you need to put the volume up high to hear mostly everything else.
I love the OLED screen. It is super useful to control this from that screen rather than on your PC.
I did not mess with the chat functionality but it seems easier for microphone purposes than the G6 or X7, especially given the OLED menu. It even has an EQ which I am a huge sucker for.
I will give it some more time and maybe mess with the EQ, but, I think my curiosity about this device is more or less satiated. Adequate if you have very easy to drive headphones that are not super revealing, like a lot of headsets, and you need chat. At $65 I'd say it's an interesting cheap foray into VSS, but at their non sale price I would say purchase anything else. (My opinion.)


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Can’t disagree with most of that. I’m not a fan of the VSS either. 

However, I’m predominantly using this in stereo mode and relying on the in game 3D Headphone mode of Battlefield 5 with either Game One, HD58X or SHP9500 headphones. It sounds great this way, not bright and has enough power (just!!) for all of them. As a £65 way of providing a better, audio path than the DS4 its worth it. I wouldn’t be so quick to buy at £129 though!!

Voice/Game chat mix makes me decide to keep this - its that important to me. If only Creative had an on device control for that


----------



## ViRGE

_I apologize in advance if this is redundant, but my Google-fu hasn't been turning up a very conclusive answer here._

Anyhow, is there any kind of reasonable way to get virtual surround audio for headphones out of a Nintendo Switch setup? Creative's G6 looked like just the ticket, but after digging through here it sounds like they are only getting stereo audio out of the Switch via USB? In which case, is there some other way to go about this?

I know the Switch can do 5.1 LPCM via HDMI, but getting from there to virtual surround for headphones doesn't seem possible. Especially as I would prefer to avoid a bulky HDMI receiver, since this is just something I'd like to tuck away into my office to drive headphones with.


----------



## Yethal

ViRGE said:


> _I apologize in advance if this is redundant, but my Google-fu hasn't been turning up a very conclusive answer here._
> 
> Anyhow, is there any kind of reasonable way to get virtual surround audio for headphones out of a Nintendo Switch setup? Creative's G6 looked like just the ticket, but after digging through here it sounds like they are only getting stereo audio out of the Switch via USB? In which case, is there some other way to go about this?
> 
> I know the Switch can do 5.1 LPCM via HDMI, but getting from there to virtual surround for headphones doesn't seem possible. Especially as I would prefer to avoid a bulky HDMI receiver, since this is just something I'd like to tuck away into my office to drive headphones with.


Tritton Katana. So far the only gaming headset we know of that uses hdmi for game audio


----------



## ViRGE

Yethal said:


> Tritton Katana. So far the only gaming headset we know of that uses hdmi for game audio


Hmm, interesting. I was primarily looking at DACs, since I would like to use my Senns. Still, that is in fact a solution, so it gives me something to think about. Thanks!


----------



## dalemissen

I've been visiting this post for years to catch up, every twelve months or so out of curiosity. It was here I learnt about the ad700 + mixamp pro which had severe me extremely well over the years. Today I finally felt I deserved an upgrade and placed an order for a sound blasterx g6 and Audio Technica ADG1x for predominately playing fps on ps4. Amongst other games like Red Dead etc. Can't wait to get them delivered now. Creative don't sell the G6 in Australia, so had to order from USA.


----------



## JoshMo87

illram said:


> It's hard to really answer this as whether you like Virtual Surround is really subjective. Personally I can't game without it anymore. I also don't think there is really much of a sacrifice in audio quality depending on how you tweak the settings. SBX is less reverby than others and retains more of the authentic sound.
> 
> If you can, try testing out VSS in a PC game with something free like HeSuVi or a free trial of Waves NX or even Out of Your Head. If you like it then the G6 is absolutely worth it.


I think I’ll give the G6 a go then. The only VSS I’ve ever tried before was from the Astro Mixamp. Wasn’t bad, personally I just didn’t feel like it was a game changer.


----------



## JoshMo87

MassEffectFan said:


> Never heard of the M3 but I know other SMSL products have performed well, can't say for sure that the M3 would.  That or what I suggested is probably your best bet purely for SQ.  The atom would be better than the E1 but it costs more.  The topping NX3 would offer higher fidelity than E1 but would likely clip on high gain, and I'm not sure if it could drive the HD 58x except on high gain.  However, the differences between that and a Creative X G5/G6 would be slight, and Creative offers a ton of features even for console gamers (ex. you can set up EQ presets on PC and they should carry over to console.)
> 
> So the X G5/G6 is probably your best bet overall.  However, note that as far as I know SBX surround doesn't work on console, although the G6 can decode dolby digital surround on console so that's nice.


Do you think adding the M3 or something similar on top of the G6 would be a good enough upgrade to justify the price?

I thought somebody posted that they had successfully gotten SBX to work on console by having the optical plugged into the Xbox while the usb was plugged into a PC. I could very well be mistaken, I’m just too lazy to go through the hundreds of posts to try and find it again haha


----------



## illram

JoshMo87 said:


> Do you think adding the M3 or something similar on top of the G6 would be a good enough upgrade to justify the price?
> 
> I thought somebody posted that they had successfully gotten SBX to work on console by having the optical plugged into the Xbox while the usb was plugged into a PC. I could very well be mistaken, I’m just too lazy to go through the hundreds of posts to try and find it again haha



Yes, the G6 needs to be plugged into a PC to change its settings. Otherwise it works with the Xbox, but you do need a chat workaround.

Although the jury is out on whether you can _unplug _it and have it save any settings; when I switched computers it reverted to its default settings. (7.1, surround on, 50/50 Bass/Crystalizer.)

I had a custom light setting and it was different as soon as I plugged it into the different PC; sure enough all the settings had reverted.


----------



## Clean6eR

Does ps4 support 24/96 over usb? Or 32/384 like the g6 supports? When on pc i change the light to green to show my profile is loaded, when i switch it to ps4 the light returns to the default red. Im guessing it goes into some ps4 mode so the usb works? 48khz? I have no idea for sure.

Has anyone used a 24/96 usb dac on ps4 via usb? Im looking at that syba dac with a mic input. Zeos says the 24/96 model works on ps4 but they also have a 24/192 model at twice the price with a woflson dac chip in it. Just not sure if ps4.will see it...


----------



## headphonesonly

Clean6eR said:


> Does ps4 support 24/96 over usb? Or 32/384 like the g6 supports? When on pc i change the light to green to show my profile is loaded, when i switch it to ps4 the light returns to the default red. Im guessing it goes into some ps4 mode so the usb works? 48khz? I have no idea for sure.
> 
> Has anyone used a 24/96 usb dac on ps4 via usb? Im looking at that syba dac with a mic input. Zeos says the 24/96 model works on ps4 but they also have a 24/192 model at twice the price with a woflson dac chip in it. Just not sure if ps4.will see it...


I’m pretty sure the ps4 usb bitrate is 16/44.1 or 48 but no one knows for sure. Ps4 Optical output i know goes up to 16/48


----------



## Clean6eR

headphonesonly said:


> I’m pretty sure the ps4 usb bitrate is 16/44.1 or 48 but no one knows for sure. Ps4 Optical output i know goes up to 16/48


thanks, might buy one anyway to test it out. my mackie onyx is 24/48 and it works, that's the first thing i found that in windows didn't have a 16 bit option at all that worked on the ps4, that surprised me a lot.


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## This Is Q (Jan 11, 2019)

Interesting


----------



## OmegaWrex

ViRGE said:


> _I apologize in advance if this is redundant, but my Google-fu hasn't been turning up a very conclusive answer here._
> 
> Anyhow, is there any kind of reasonable way to get virtual surround audio for headphones out of a Nintendo Switch setup? Creative's G6 looked like just the ticket, but after digging through here it sounds like they are only getting stereo audio out of the Switch via USB? In which case, is there some other way to go about this?
> 
> I know the Switch can do 5.1 LPCM via HDMI, but getting from there to virtual surround for headphones doesn't seem possible. Especially as I would prefer to avoid a bulky HDMI receiver, since this is just something I'd like to tuck away into my office to drive headphones with.



I use the optical out of this HDMI switch to get the 5.1 signal from my Switch


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## AverageGamer (Dec 2, 2018)

Trying to weigh my connectivity options with my current gear...

Currently, I have my PS4 slim connected to an Astro 5.8 mixamp using an JaTech Digital optical link adapter (since my PS4 has no toslink output). I then use the A40s “wirelessly” connected to the mixamp. It has served my purpose but I’m wondering if I could use this same Astro setup on my Xbox one which is in the living room and would serve better as a couch-friendly, “wireless” alternative?

I’d then use my newly unopened Sennheiser Game One headset on my PS4. Is it advised to connect the ONEs to an amp/dac unit? If so, would another Astro mixamp do or should I be considering the new SoundBlaster G6 unit? I play most FPS games and would definitely require chat/gaming connectivity. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated!

EDIT: Just read there is no game/chat controller on the G6. Bummer. Wondering if I’m stuck buying yet another Astro mixamp for the Game ONEs to PS4. Any recommendations?


----------



## OmegaWrex

AverageGamer said:


> Trying to weigh my connectivity options with my current gear...
> 
> Currently, I have my PS4 slim connected to an Astro 5.8 mixamp using an JaTech Digital optical link adapter (since my PS4 has no toslink output). I then use the A40s “wirelessly” connected to the mixamp. It has served my purpose but I’m wondering if I could use this same Astro setup on my Xbox one which is in the living room and would serve better as a couch-friendly, “wireless” alternative?
> 
> ...



There's game chat on the G6 for PS4, game chat doesn't work on the Xbox


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## AverageGamer

OmegaWrex said:


> There's game chat on the G6 for PS4, game chat doesn't work on the Xbox


So with the G6 and the PS4 you can adjust the voice and game volume on the fly? Like using the control knob on a mixamp?


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## headphonesonly

AverageGamer said:


> So with the G6 and the PS4 you can adjust the voice and game volume on the fly? Like using the control knob on a mixamp?


The g6 does not allow you to adjust game/chat balance on the device.


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## AverageGamer

headphonesonly said:


> The g6 does not allow you to adjust game/chat balance on the device.


So the Astro Mixamps are still the “go to” devices for amp AND game/chat control? I never had a problem with the Mixamps, but was wondering if there is a better alternative to use with the Sennheiser Game ONEs?


----------



## headphonesonly

AverageGamer said:


> So the Astro Mixamps are still the “go to” devices for amp AND game/chat control? I never had a problem with the Mixamps, but was wondering if there is a better alternative to use with the Sennheiser Game ONEs?


The g6 has a better sounding dac and more powerful amp and a much lower noise floor. I prefer sbx over dolby headphone but if the mixamp still works well for you then why not just stick with it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

AverageGamer said:


> Trying to weigh my connectivity options with my current gear...
> 
> Currently, I have my PS4 slim connected to an Astro 5.8 mixamp using an JaTech Digital optical link adapter (since my PS4 has no toslink output). I then use the A40s “wirelessly” connected to the mixamp. It has served my purpose but I’m wondering if I could use this same Astro setup on my Xbox one which is in the living room and would serve better as a couch-friendly, “wireless” alternative?
> 
> ...



As already said - no voice/game balance control on the G6 - ruins for me what is a great device otherwise (which is why I'm selling mine).  Think it's a massive oversight from Creative - claiming voice chat support (which it has) on PS4 but leaving out a key control.  Several times online I had to revert to using the controller audio mid game just so I could adjust things properly!  

I've ended up with a Steelseries GameDac now (fortunately at a bargain Black Friday price).  Not quite in the same league as the G6, not as competent amp wise, but has a great OLED screen and east voice/game balance controls.  Still sounds decent when I've tried it with my Game Ones (and other headphones) but only just powerful enough for the Sennheisers in my testing.  Also, not a fan of the surround processing on it (so running in stereo) - then again, I didn't like the VSS on the latest Mixamp TR either.


----------



## AverageGamer

headphonesonly said:


> The g6 has a better sounding dac and more powerful amp and a much lower noise floor. I prefer sbx over dolby headphone but if the mixamp still works well for you then why not just stick with it.



I’d like to use the 5.8 mixamp on my living room Xbox for a wireless alternative and need another dac/amp with voice and chat control for my PS4 and Sennheiser ONEs, which are in a different room than the Xbox.


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## AverageGamer

WhiteHartMart said:


> As already said - no voice/game balance control on the G6 - ruins for me what is a great device otherwise (which is why I'm selling mine).  Think it's a massive oversight from Creative - claiming voice chat support (which it has) on PS4 but leaving out a key control.  Several times online I had to revert to using the controller audio mid game just so I could adjust things properly!
> 
> I've ended up with a Steelseries GameDac now (fortunately at a bargain Black Friday price).  Not quite in the same league as the G6, not as competent amp wise, but has a great OLED screen and east voice/game balance controls.  Still sounds decent when I've tried it with my Game Ones (and other headphones) but only just powerful enough for the Sennheisers in my testing.  Also, not a fan of the surround processing on it (so running in stereo) - then again, I didn't like the VSS on the latest Mixamp TR either.


You didn’t care for the mixamp TR? How does it differ from older Mixamps? I have the 5.8 Astro setup currently and am debating on a newer Mixamp to use with the Game Ones. The G6 sounded promising until I read there was no on-the-fly game/chat controller. Bummer. Any better options than another Astro Mixamp to handle the Game ONEs?


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## Lay. (Dec 3, 2018)

AverageGamer said:


> You didn’t care for the mixamp TR? How does it differ from older Mixamps? I have the 5.8 Astro setup currently and am debating on a newer Mixamp to use with the Game Ones. The G6 sounded promising until I read there was no on-the-fly game/chat controller. Bummer. Any better options than another Astro Mixamp to handle the Game ONEs?



You did not ask this from me, but here is my 2 cents...

MixAmp 5.8 and older MixAmps in general have more natural sound. MixAmp Pro TR sound is cleaner and it has better positional audio, but the sound is a bit metallic, colder and too much reverb for my taste. HD598's need some EQ with MixAmp Pro TR to sound somewhat natural. That said, I would pick the TR sound over 5.8 in FPS games any day (I have both).

The sound from G6 is better than MixAmp Pro TR in every way. MLE gave feedback to Creative about G6 and game/chat balance on PS4. I hope that they could address this by software. For example an option to control game/chat balance instead of mic volume/mic monitoring. Now I just adjust in game volume to get the party chat volume right.


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## WhiteHartMart (Dec 3, 2018)

@Lay. has summed it up perfectly - it was the metallic, unnatural sound I did not like at all.

They have also, made me think about the options to balance game/voice sounds also - maybe I was making too much of it.  might well give the G6 another try tonight to see if I can run with it until a Creative update?  It really is a great sounding device.


----------



## Clean6eR

Lay. said:


> You did not ask this from me, but here is my 2 cents...
> 
> MixAmp 5.8 and older MixAmps in general have more natural sound. MixAmp Pro TR sound is cleaner and it has better positional audio, but the sound is a bit metallic, colder and too much reverb for my taste. HD598's need some EQ with MixAmp Pro TR to sound somewhat natural. That said, I would pick the TR sound over 5.8 in FPS games any day (I have both).
> 
> The sound from G6 is better than MixAmp Pro TR in every way. MLE gave feedback to Creative about G6 and game/chat balance on PS4. I hope that they could address this by software. For example an option to control game/chat balance instead of mic volume/mic monitoring. Now I just adjust in game volume to get the party chat volume right.


i 100% agree, the mic monitors delay makes it unusable for me so switching that to a chat mix would be awesome, plug some open back headphones on this and its a nice little device. does anyone from creative frequent this forum?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Clean6eR said:


> i 100% agree, the mic monitors delay makes it unusable for me so switching that to a chat mix would be awesome, plug some open back headphones on this and its a nice little device. does anyone from creative frequent this forum?



I've brought this to their attention via their UK support which they've said will be fed back to the product team!? I'd happily replace the mic monitoring control for the game/chat balance as I only use Open backed headphones anyway.


----------



## Yunho

Been waiting since the Soundblaster Recon3D for them to implement game/chat balance controls in a future USB soundcard of theirs.

How is the G5 compared with the G6? Don't have the G6 on the Australian Creative store sadly.


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## AverageGamer (Dec 3, 2018)

Can anyone confirm if the Astro 5.8 mixamp rx/tx unit works sufficiently on the Xbox One S? Does it handle game/chat volume as expected? I was going to jump and buy a mixamp tr pro (or just buy the G6 still undecided) for the PS4 but want to be sure my older 5.8 mixamp setup will work on the Xbox One S for game and chat audio? Any experience?

(Not sure if it matters but the Mix amp and A40s I’m hoping to use on the Xbox One S are the 2011 edition.)


----------



## JoshMo87

Would it be possible to get a G6 and a Mixamp hooked up together on Xbox one? Having the G6 for game audioand the Mixamp for chat mixing.


----------



## AverageGamer

Wow, what’s up with Astro Mixamps being EITHER for PS4 OR Xbox? No more cross platform solutions? Can anyone recommend an amp/dac that will handle BOTH audio and chat on both systems? Think I may retire Astro all together.


----------



## JoshMo87

AverageGamer said:


> Wow, what’s up with Astro Mixamps being EITHER for PS4 OR Xbox? No more cross platform solutions? Can anyone recommend an amp/dac that will handle BOTH audio and chat on both systems? Think I may retire Astro all together.


So the Xbox Mixamp will work on PC and PS4 when put into PC mode. However, the PS4 Mixamp will not work on the Xbox One, as it needs a special chip certified by Microsoft for game chat. Game audio works fine though.


----------



## TeeReQs

The older mixamps will handle chat on both, but xbox requires a lot of extra wires to make it work. Not the most elegant solution


----------



## AverageGamer

TeeReQs said:


> The older mixamps will handle chat on both, but xbox requires a lot of extra wires to make it work. Not the most elegant solution


Any idea which cables are needed for the 5.8 mixamp to work for both chat and audio on the Xbox One S?


----------



## TeeReQs

AverageGamer said:


> Any idea which cables are needed for the 5.8 mixamp to work for both chat and audio on the Xbox One S?



The first page of this thread has a lot of helpful wiring diagrams for setting up various devices to consoles. I never had a Mixamp 5.8, but I did used to have a Mixamp Pro and Mixamp Pro 2013. Setup seems to be pretty similar.

Here's the diagram from the front page for the 5.8:

https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/8265289.png


----------



## AverageGamer

TeeReQs said:


> The first page of this thread has a lot of helpful wiring diagrams for setting up various devices to consoles. I never had a Mixamp 5.8, but I did used to have a Mixamp Pro and Mixamp Pro 2013. Setup seems to be pretty similar.
> 
> Here's the diagram from the front page for the 5.8:
> 
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/8265289.png


This will only work for Xbox audio; no chat ability correct?


----------



## TeeReQs

Chat as well


----------



## AverageGamer

TeeReQs said:


> Chat as well



So a 5.8 Mixamp will definitely handle game and chat features on the Xbox One S using the Astro Y cable? Has anyone confirmed the quality of both audio and chat?


----------



## AverageGamer

It seems my Astro 5.8 kit didn’t come (or I’ve misplaced it) with a 3.5 to 2.5mm cable to run between the mixamp and the controller. I’m wondering if Astro sells them or if I can purchase a cable from Best Buy etc.


----------



## TeeReQs

Just buy one on Amazon, Monoprice, etc. Will be way cheaper than going through Astro. If you don't have the Y-cable, you can find those on Amazone as well.


----------



## AverageGamer

TeeReQs said:


> Just buy one on Amazon, Monoprice, etc. Will be way cheaper than going through Astro. If you don't have the Y-cable, you can find those on Amazone as well.


Does it have to be a special “chat-type” 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable? Any links to a cable because there seems to be a ton of them. Also, since I’ll be using my A40 headset, do I even need to use the Y split cable?


----------



## headphonesonly

AverageGamer said:


> Does it have to be a special “chat-type” 2.5mm to 3.5mm cable? Any links to a cable because there seems to be a ton of them. Also, since I’ll be using my A40 headset, do I even need to use the Y split cable?


You still play on the xbox 360? Xbox one doesn’t need those xbox chat cables. Just a 4-pole splitter like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DMCZQF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_sDEbCb4EQZ578


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## AverageGamer (Dec 3, 2018)

headphonesonly said:


> You still play on the xbox 360? Xbox one doesn’t need those xbox chat cables. Just a 4-pole splitter like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071DMCZQF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_sDEbCb4EQZ578



No, I play on the Xbox One not the 360 anymore. I have a “4 pole splitter” Y cable like you linked but why do I need that if I’m using the Astro A40s since the audio and chat is one inline cable? My A40s have the quick disconnect cable with the mute switch that feeds by a 2.5 or 3.5 (not sure actual size) that I normally plug into the headset port on the 5.8 mixamp when used with my PS4. From what I keep reading, in order to use the 5.8 mixamp and A40s on the Xbox One S, many cables are needed in order to achieve quality sound and chat features (which many say is spotty at times). Wish I could just get a straight answer for connectivity.

Didn’t think this would be such a challenge in order to game efficiently. Starting to think I should just purchase a quality headset and another amp/dac that is both PS4 AND Xbox One S friendly. Any suggestions? I only started this post cause I got a killer deal on a Sennheiser Game One headset but seems like a daunting task just to get them setup.

Like the illustration seen here https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/8265289.png
Why is the y cable or 4 pole splitter cable needed if my A40s have the inline audio chat cable using the quick disconnect cable that came with my A40s? Wouldn’t I be able to plug the A40s quick disconnect cable into the 5.8 mixamp without the Y cable and then use a 2.5 to 3.5mm cable from the mixamp chat port to the Xbox One S controllers chat port? Confused


----------



## illram (Dec 4, 2018)

AverageGamer said:


> No, I play on the Xbox One not the 360 anymore. I have a “4 pole splitter” Y cable like you linked but why do I need that if I’m using the Astro A40s since the audio and chat is one inline cable? My A40s have the quick disconnect cable with the mute switch that feeds by a 2.5 or 3.5 (not sure actual size) that I normally plug into the headset port on the 5.8 mixamp when used with my PS4. From what I keep reading, in order to use the 5.8 mixamp and A40s on the Xbox One S, many cables are needed in order to achieve quality sound and chat features (which many say is spotty at times). Wish I could just get a straight answer for connectivity.
> 
> Didn’t think this would be such a challenge in order to game efficiently. Starting to think I should just purchase a quality headset and another amp/dac that is both PS4 AND Xbox One S friendly. Any suggestions? I only started this post cause I got a killer deal on a Sennheiser Game One headset but seems like a daunting task just to get them setup.
> 
> ...



I don't own the Mixamp but from looking at the diagram the Y-cable is for the Gameone headphone + mic cable ---> single ended 3.5 mm cable. If the Gameone lets you swap out the cable for a normal 4 pole connector you can ditch the y-splitter as you said.

The old 2.5mm to 3.5mm was for old controllers that needed the chat adapter; new ones you just can use any old 3.5mm TRRS connector. Like this one. (I don't know if just mic audio even needs TRRS, but that is the same price as the normal stereo aux cable. They're cheap...try both?)

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=18632

Again; not an owner, just what I would try looking at that diagram.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Hooked up the G6 to my PS4 Pro for another quick test last night.  Tried it via USB and also both USB & Optical.  I could used the Party Chat 'Adjust Game/Chat Mix' in the PS4 software when just connected by USB but it was greyed out when connected by Optical and USB.  Is this right??  If so, by connecting via USB I guess I'm missing out on Dolby Digital output?? Anything else??


----------



## dalemissen

I don't own mine yet, Friday is expected delivery, however when I connect my astro mixamp to ps4, the following settings are required to enable chat and game audio changeless to be separate. 
In audio settings, ensure output is set to optical and 5.1 Dolby
In devices choose usb device as headset and chat audio only. 
This should send chat through usb and game audio through optical to mix


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> Hooked up the G6 to my PS4 Pro for another quick test last night.  Tried it via USB and also both USB & Optical.  I could used the Party Chat 'Adjust Game/Chat Mix' in the PS4 software when just connected by USB but it was greyed out when connected by Optical and USB.  Is this right??  If so, by connecting via USB I guess I'm missing out on Dolby Digital output?? Anything else??



Adjust Game/Chat should be grayed out (unfortunately) when the G6 is connected and the settings are correct. It is the same with MixAmp.

USB only should be stereo. I don't know how the sound quality is though. 

The setting "Volume control (Headphones)" should somewhat affect the game/chat balance if I remember correctly. If it affects only the USB audio, it should only affect the chat volume (optical game and USB chat).


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lay. said:


> Adjust Game/Chat should be grayed out (unfortunately) when the G6 is connected and the settings are correct. It is the same with MixAmp.
> 
> USB only should be stereo. I don't know how the sound quality is though.
> 
> The setting "Volume control (Headphones)" should somewhat affect the game/chat balance if I remember correctly. If it affects only the USB audio, it should only affect the chat volume (optical game and USB chat).



Thanks for confirming - its greyed out when my GameDac is connected also from memory - that's where the on device controls come in.

At least I know I have the G6 setup correctly.  Might just stick with USB only connection for a while in the hope that Creative bring some form of chat mix update to the device?


----------



## dalemissen

Wouldn't 5.1 via optical cable be better?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

dalemissen said:


> Wouldn't 5.1 via optical cable be better?



I'm sure it would but not if I lose all game/chat balance control in the UI.  Besides, my gaming time is 95% Battlefield 5 right now and that has a 3D audio option in the settings which I guess is preserved via USB.  It'll have to do for now I guess athough still not ideal.  Really wish I had returned the G6 while I had the chance tbh.


----------



## Yethal

TeeReQs said:


> The first page of this thread has a lot of helpful wiring diagrams for setting up various devices to consoles. I never had a Mixamp 5.8, but I did used to have a Mixamp Pro and Mixamp Pro 2013. Setup seems to be pretty similar.
> 
> Here's the diagram from the front page for the 5.8:
> 
> https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/8265289.png


I should probably draw some more of these to cover new devices we use.


----------



## Lay.

WhiteHartMart said:


> Might just stick with USB only connection for a while in the hope that Creative bring some form of chat mix update to the device?



I'm a bit pessimistic regarding this update but I sure hope that they would listen and do something. My pessimism is from Astro times . They made a firmware update one year ago that made MixAmp TR to crash every time when starting PS4 Pro that has SSD in it. They blamed SSD, my console, my MixAmp... I did all the testing in the world with different consoles, different SSD:s, different MixAmp. In the end they agreed it is because of the firmware but won't do anything since not many people use SSD:s. Nice.


----------



## TeeReQs

Yethal said:


> I should probably draw some more of these to cover new devices we use.



I think they have been very helpful, and it's nice having all this information in one place. If in doubt, check the first post!


----------



## dalemissen

Well I finally recieved the Audio Technica ADG1X, but still waiting on the G6. The ADG1X is replacing my AD700 and I've read a lot of opinions from people who have never tried them, saying the ADG1x is just an expensive AD700x with a mic, totally wrong. These share the same drivers as the AD900X. Direct comparison between the AD700 and the ADG1X, plugged into mixamp pro (2013), the ADG1X murder the AD700. imaging is spot on. The depth to the sound is much fuller, warmer, and much less fatiguing. I love the little extra bass. Everything feels so much more natural. I think these are probably going to be the best headset option for a long time to come for competitive FPS without going to a HD 800 S plus mod mic. Can't wait to get the G6 and see the improvement over the mixamp for surround immersion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You do realize that they were probably comparing the ORIGINAL ADG1, not the ADG1X to the ORIGINAL AD700. Audio Technica changes their headphones rather frequently. The newer M50X or whatever version is out now wouldn't be like the M50 of old.


----------



## dalemissen

It's entirely possible they assumed the ADG1x was the same as the ADG1 and didn't do the research, but from the hours upon hours of research and many threads on countless forums, YouTube comments etc I trawled, I saw that myth repeated several times in comments and answers to questions such as, 'should I go for the AD700X, AD900X or the ADG1X' and comments were the headset is probably just an AD700X with mic. 

I just wanted to let anyone know who's interested and seen the same comments, the ADG1X is a very impressive unit. It's definitely the same drivers as the AD900X. I just read an analytical comparison between the AD900X and ADG1X where they tested the frequency response and the graphs are very similar, but the G1X looked slightly more linear according to their graph. So it appears there even a slight difference between the two? Definitely should be a consideration for anyone who's after a competitive FPS headphone. (they're currently 25% off where I am, so great value imo and the reason I finally upgraded)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Either way, no two headphones are the same, even the same model. That can be the discrepancy in graph differences.


----------



## dalemissen

Yeah I understand that, either way it's a great experience for me after coming from the 700s.


----------



## JoshMo87

So I just got my G6 today! Been using it on Xbox and it’s great so far, my only question is should I be outputting stereo, Windows Sonic, or Dolby audio from the Xbox settings?


----------



## Clean6eR

JoshMo87 said:


> So I just got my G6 today! Been using it on Xbox and it’s great so far, my only question is should I be outputting stereo, Windows Sonic, or Dolby audio from the Xbox settings?


you have many options

if you output stereo that is all you will get, do not enable the surround mode in stereo as it will sound funky. you can enable atmos or the sonic audio if youd like to trail them, they are software surround processors and pipe out a stereo signal so if you try them again ensure the g6 does not have the surround button enabled.

if you want to use the g6 surround, set the xbox to output dolby via optical 5.1. you will know you have done it correctly as the middle white light on the side back of the g6 will light up, the g6 is then ready to have that surround button turned on!

would be cool to try out all the options and see which lets you play best!


----------



## illram (Dec 8, 2018)

Not much point in the G6 with the Xbox unless you are using Dolby bitstream out to get 5.1 for SBX to virtualize. Otherwise you're just using it as an external DAC/amp without Xbox chat functionality.

Also regarding Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos: I've never seen a product feature launch with less explanation and as much confusion as these, but basically unless a game includes an Atmos mix or renderer (object based or sufficient channels) Sonic or Atmos do nothing. Sonic just uses the Atmos mix. It's also not clear what games have Atmos either. I've tried Sonic in random games and it's actually worse than stereo if it's not using Atmos, it just simulates surround using 2 channels which is always bad.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 9, 2018)

Yeah I never actually got Sonic or Atmos to work on my PC even with the trial. Outside of HeSuVi.


----------



## AverageGamer

Trying to decide on the need for a closed back gaming headset; being the Sennheiser Game Zeros (latest version on Amazon).

I currently own the Astro A40 TR and recently purchased the Sennheiser Game ONEs both are driven by Astro mixamps. My question is since the A40s and Game ONEs are both open back headsets, and me never owning a closed back version, would it be beneficial and cost worthy to own the Zeros for FPS gaming in a rather loud home environment? Is the soundstage that terrible compared to either of my open headsets? Finally, are the Ones and Zeros really that much different when pinpointing opponents and overall fun/wow factor? I can’t decide if I should keep or  return the Game ONEs for the Game Zeros, since I already own the A40’s. Any suggestions or comments?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're using virtual surrund fro the Mixamp, then open vs closed isn't that much of an issue, assuming you have a closed headphone with a good soundstage like Beyerdynamic DT770s, etc. Virtual surround mitigates a lot of the problems closed headphones have. Yes, open headphones tend to sound bigger, but there are benefits from closed headphones that aren'tm found in open ones, like a blacker background that makes things easier to pinpoint at times. Using the Creative Trio iem with say,m the Sennheiser GSX surround, I found it to sound incredible in virtual surround in depth, soundstage, positional cues etc. A good virtual surround will always be more beneficial than just going closed vs open.


----------



## Lay.

AverageGamer said:


> Trying to decide on the need for a closed back gaming headset; being the Sennheiser Game Zeros (latest version on Amazon).
> 
> I currently own the Astro A40 TR and recently purchased the Sennheiser Game ONEs both are driven by Astro mixamps. My question is since the A40s and Game ONEs are both open back headsets, and me never owning a closed back version, would it be beneficial and cost worthy to own the Zeros for FPS gaming in a rather loud home environment? Is the soundstage that terrible compared to either of my open headsets? Finally, are the Ones and Zeros really that much different when pinpointing opponents and overall fun/wow factor? I can’t decide if I should keep or  return the Game ONEs for the Game Zeros, since I already own the A40’s. Any suggestions or comments?



Just out of curiosity. How do you like the A40's vs. Game One's sound with MixAmp TR?

MixAmp TR was the first MixAmp for me that did not sound good with HD598's when I first tried them. I needed to find an EQ that would make the sound decent. HD589's should be fairly close to Game ONE's sound so that's why I ask. Some speculate (including Zeos) that the MixAmp TR is tuned to correct the A40's sound.


----------



## AverageGamer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're using virtual surrund fro the Mixamp, then open vs closed isn't that much of an issue, assuming you have a closed headphone with a good soundstage like Beyerdynamic DT770s, etc. Virtual surround mitigates a lot of the problems closed headphones have. Yes, open headphones tend to sound bigger, but there are benefits from closed headphones that aren'tm found in open ones, like a blacker background that makes things easier to pinpoint at times. Using the Creative Trio iem with say,m the Sennheiser GSX surround, I found it to sound incredible in virtual surround in depth, soundstage, positional cues etc. A good virtual surround will always be more beneficial than just going closed vs open.



Interesting. I’m getting mixed reviews on the Sennheiser Game ZERO headset. Some love, others hate. Since I’m using them with the mixamp TR edition for virtual surround, would they provide stellar positioning while gaming in FPS’ers? Or would the soundstage be to minimal and “closed” using the ZEROS? Am I better off keeping the A40s and the ONES? Was hoping to have the A40s as my open back set and the ZEROS as my closed set but don’t want to sacrifice sound quality for it, ya know?


----------



## AverageGamer

Lay. said:


> Just out of curiosity. How do you like the A40's vs. Game One's sound with MixAmp TR?
> 
> MixAmp TR was the first MixAmp for me that did not sound good with HD598's when I first tried them. I needed to find an EQ that would make the sound decent. HD589's should be fairly close to Game ONE's sound so that's why I ask. Some speculate (including Zeos) that the MixAmp TR is tuned to correct the A40's sound.


Unfortunately I haven’t tried the Game ONES out yet with the mixamp TR. Paired with the A40s, audio positioning etc sounds as advertised. However, I’m no audiophile enthusiast. ☺️


----------



## Lay.

AverageGamer said:


> However, I’m no audiophile enthusiast. ☺️



Not yet.  I bought Astro A40 & my first MixAmp about 9 years ago. Then I stumbled my way to head-fi forum 2010 and...


----------



## JoshMo87

illram said:


> Not much point in the G6 with the Xbox unless you are using Dolby bitstream out to get 5.1 for SBX to virtualize. Otherwise you're just using it as an external DAC/amp without Xbox chat functionality.
> 
> Also regarding Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos: I've never seen a product feature launch with less explanation and as much confusion as these, but basically unless a game includes an Atmos mix or renderer (object based or sufficient channels) Sonic or Atmos do nothing. Sonic just uses the Atmos mix. It's also not clear what games have Atmos either. I've tried Sonic in random games and it's actually worse than stereo if it's not using Atmos, it just simulates surround using 2 channels which is always bad.


Yeah I’ve been using Dolby bitstream with the SBX and I must say, it sounds incredible! I’m coming from an Astro A50, I was never impressed by it’s VSS. The G6 is soooo much better! I’ve got my pc right next to my tv so I can use the Xbox app on pc for party chat.


----------



## JoshMo87

Question for everyone who uses a G6, do you prefer SBX or Scout Mode when playing competitive games? Why?


----------



## headphonesonly

JoshMo87 said:


> Question for everyone who uses a G6, do you prefer SBX or Scout Mode when playing competitive games? Why?


SBX ultra wide. Scout mode is only stereo


----------



## AverageGamer

AverageGamer said:


> Interesting. I’m getting mixed reviews on the Sennheiser Game ZERO headset. Some love, others hate. Since I’m using them with the mixamp TR edition for virtual surround, would they provide stellar positioning while gaming in FPS’ers? Or would the soundstage be to minimal and “closed” using the ZEROS? Am I better off keeping the A40s and the ONES? Was hoping to have the A40s as my open back set and the ZEROS as my closed set but don’t want to sacrifice sound quality for it, ya know?



Anyone own both the Sennheiser Game ONES and ZEROS? If so, which do u prefer and why? I can’t decide if I should just stick with my A40s and Game ONES or return the ONES for the Zeros to have a closed set as well. But don’t want to jeopardize position pinpointing.


----------



## ChaChaRealSmooth

@Mad Lust Envy, I know this has been said already, but great work! I really enjoyed reading!

I think we might share some similar preferences in sound quality, as I noticed your HD 650 review closely matches my own notes and thoughts on it (I own a HD 6XX and love it).

Although now my poor gaming headset I bought before I got in this hobby now just collects dust.


----------



## AverageGamer

AverageGamer said:


> Anyone own both the Sennheiser Game ONES and ZEROS? If so, which do u prefer and why? I can’t decide if I should just stick with my A40s and Game ONES or return the ONES for the Zeros to have a closed set as well. But don’t want to jeopardize position pinpointing.



Does anyone have an opinion or suggestion regarding me keeping the A40s and Game ONEs or should I return the Game ONES for the ZEROS?


----------



## AverageGamer

AverageGamer said:


> Does anyone have an opinion or suggestion regarding me keeping the A40s and Game ONEs or should I return the Game ONES for the ZEROS?



?


----------



## raband

AverageGamer said:


> ?



 What don't you like about your current setup?


----------



## AverageGamer

raband said:


> What don't you like about your current setup?



I like my current setup but was thinking since the A40s and the Game ONES are both open headsets, would it be beneficial to return the ONES for the Game ZEROS to have a closed set. My home environment can get quite loud occassionally but nothing that is overwhelming. I've never owned a pair of closed headphones so I'm not sure how the sound quality would be solely for positional awareness in FPS games. Again, I'd be using an Astro mixamp to power both the open and closed headsets. Just don't want to return the Game ONES for the Game ZEROS if it means losing out on sound quality.


----------



## raband

AverageGamer said:


> Just don't want to return the Game ONES for the Game ZEROS if it means losing out on sound quality.



Personally I prefer open cans, dislike closed (claustrophobic feeling).

If isolation isn't a goal then I wouldn't head towards a closed set.


----------



## AverageGamer

raband said:


> Personally I prefer open cans, dislike closed (claustrophobic feeling).
> 
> If isolation isn't a goal then I wouldn't head towards a closed set.



Have you had the opportunity to compare the sound of the Game ONES vs the Game ZEROS? I just wonder how good or bad they compare to each other but unfortunately, I cannot afford two sets. Do the ZEROS lack sound positioning? I could really care less about how much bass they lack, as long as the positional soundstage in FPS games is there that is all that matters to me. 

Just thinking that having the option of a closed and opened headset would be nice.


----------



## raband

AverageGamer said:


> Have you had the opportunity to compare the sound of the Game ONES vs the Game ZEROS?



Haven't tried either of those, or the A40's

Do you prefer the Senn's to the Astro's?


----------



## AverageGamer (Dec 13, 2018)

raband said:


> Haven't tried either of those, or the A40's
> 
> Do you prefer the Senn's to the Astro's?



I like them both actually. The new A40's "TR edition" are nothing spectacular but they get the job done. I'm curious on if the new Sennheiser GSP 600's are "better" at providing a wider soundstage in a closed headset better than that of the Game ZEROS. I've read that the GSP 600's are superior in all aspects over the Game ZEROS, but this was just the opinion from sponsored reviewers. Can anyone weigh in on this?

For console gaming using an Astro mixamp, do closed headsets still provide a wide soundstage for positional awareness in 1st person shooter games? Are open headsets like the Game ONES really superior over the Game ZEROS like everyone says?


----------



## raband

AverageGamer said:


> still provide a wide soundstage



When you're using the VSS (Virtual Surround Sound) tricks of the mixamp the playing field is a lot more even.

Open will always beat closed though - easily.

The headphones you're talking about are all side-grades, not up-grades.

Would all come down to personal preference and comfort.

Borrow a closed set (any, VSS will narrow any major differences) and see if the format works for you.


----------



## Find the Door

Find the Door said:


> Today - my life changed foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> 
> I was so displeased with the HD800-S (black revision) that I wanted to sell them.  The x7 Limited Edition did it absolutely no justice (even with Sparkos full upgrade) but oh my goodness when I hooked up my Schiit Jotunheim.  I seriously have no words - there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever to anything I've ever heard.
> 
> ...



Coming back to this I'm wondering what my settings should be PS4 side and what I should use x7 side.

Should I be doing 5.1 Dolby on the PS4 side of things or go straight stereo?  Should I also be using SBX at all?


----------



## raband

Surround from the PS4 into the X7
X7 magic
Amp
HD800's


----------



## Yethal

raband said:


> Surround from the PS4 into the X7
> X7 magic
> Amp
> HD800's


Did you plug the HD800 straight into X7?


----------



## raband (Dec 13, 2018)

Yethal said:


> Did you plug the HD800 straight into X7?



Me?

Have done, is ok.

I feed the X7 into the HDVD800 though usually (SBX passthrough) then into the HD800's


----------



## Find the Door

raband said:


> Me?
> 
> Have done, is ok.
> 
> I feed the X7 into the HDVD800 though usually (SBX passthrough) then into the HD800's



What settings do you typically use in game?  Also what SBX settings?


----------



## illram (Dec 13, 2018)

I've also tried the HD800S out of the X7 and it was OK. Honestly with the EQ feature I never felt like much was missing if I wanted to change the sound.

There is definitely an upgrade when you add a better amp; both my iFi Black Label and iCAN SE provided decent additional depth to the sound. "Loudness" is never an issue, I did feel like these two amps provided a little more detail, and "oomph." I don't know how else to describe it other than there just felt like there was more there. (I think this is why I don't do audio reviews.) This is without using the 3D or Xbass (Xbass is good though, I use it with the HD800S.)

But, it was not world changing for me personally; the X7 is no slouch in the DAC and amp department, honestly, especially given it has a good EQ feature.

I currently use 100 surround (SBX on), no crystalizer, no bass, flat EQ, full Dolby dynamic range.


----------



## raband

Find the Door said:


> Also what SBX settings?



100% surround, no idea on the rest, probably default.



illram said:


> But, it was not world changing for me personally; the X7 is no slouch in the DAC and amp department, honestly, especially given it has a good EQ feature.



When using SBX even less so - it's the effect that rules, rather than the cans or the amp.


----------



## illram

raband said:


> 100% surround, no idea on the rest, probably default.
> 
> 
> 
> When using SBX even less so - it's the effect that rules, rather than the cans or the amp.



Yeah I agree. Personally, if a headphone has good imaging and detail, that is 80% of what you need, since all of these DSP's change the sound so much. Even soundstage is not super hugely important unless the headphone just totally lacks it, since these DSP's also add that artificially as well. 

If the headphone can accurately portray what the DSP is feeding it, you're set more or less. The rest is just preference on  what sort of sound signature you like. (E.g. more bass, and so on.) Which is why the HD800 is so great. (But there are others...)


----------



## Lay.

AverageGamer said:


> Just thinking that having the option of a closed and opened headset would be nice.



How about keeping the Game ONE (if you like them) and  buying Astro A40 TR Mod Kit?

"Adapt the ASTRO A40 TR Headset to any situation with the Call of Duty Mod Kit. For loud environments such as pro tournaments, gamers can transform the A40 TR to a closed-back, noise-isolating headset with sealed Speaker Tags, synthetic leather ear cushions and headband, and a voice-isolating microphone."


----------



## Find the Door

illram said:


> I've also tried the HD800S out of the X7 and it was OK. Honestly with the EQ feature I never felt like much was missing if I wanted to change the sound.
> 
> There is definitely an upgrade when you add a better amp; both my iFi Black Label and iCAN SE provided decent additional depth to the sound. "Loudness" is never an issue, I did feel like these two amps provided a little more detail, and "oomph." I don't know how else to describe it other than there just felt like there was more there. (I think this is why I don't do audio reviews.) This is without using the 3D or Xbass (Xbass is good though, I use it with the HD800S.)
> 
> ...




On the PS4 do you use Dolby Digital 5.1?  In a game like Battlefield for example what should you use?  Headphones or home theater?


----------



## illram (Dec 13, 2018)

Find the Door said:


> On the PS4 do you use Dolby Digital 5.1?  In a game like Battlefield for example what should you use?  Headphones or home theater?



I have an Xbox but for PS4 it is the same: if you have SBX engaged, you must turn on Dolby Digital.

If a game has its own in game headphone surround options, uch as Battlefield,  or Overwatch which has atmos, or Counterstrike which has its own heapdhone surround mix I believe, then it just depends on which sounds better to you. If you used the game's virtual surround you would turn off Dolby and SBX and just use the game's audio settings.

But, this is very subjective. You have to listen to both and basically see which presents better directional cues.

But for all other games where they do not have their own virtual surround mix, use dolby.


----------



## DCB305

FYI - Massdrop has Burson SS V5i Op Amps (link). They are $40.00 for a matched pair of singles and $45.00 for a matched pair of duals. So for $85.00 you can upgrade your X7!


----------



## silverthornne

DCB305 said:


> FYI - Massdrop has Burson SS V5i Op Amps (link). They are $40.00 for a matched pair of singles and $45.00 for a matched pair of duals. So for $85.00 you can upgrade your X7!



Thanks for posting this, since I went to the drop to ask if they would work with an X7. So I should buy the matched pair of duals and a single? Where do I replace them? Total n00b to op-amps, but not a n00b with soldering and electronics so I am unlikely to ruin my X7 if I just know where to place the op-amps.


----------



## Find the Door (Dec 17, 2018)

silverthornne said:


> Thanks for posting this, since I went to the drop to ask if they would work with an X7. So I should buy the matched pair of duals and a single? Where do I replace them? Total n00b to op-amps, but not a n00b with soldering and electronics so I am unlikely to ruin my X7 if I just know where to place the op-amps.



You need to get a pair of singles and duals.

Its worthy of note that Sparkos OP amps are considered to be the best replacements.  Also that typically when you installed the duals you can't really utilize your bottom cover.

I noticed a huge difference in sound separation (imaging) when I installed my Sparkos replacements.

I'd recommend that you reach out to Sparkos on Facebook and speak directly to the guy.  He'll typically be accommodating with better rates and prices.

Best of luck


----------



## DCB305

silverthornne said:


> Thanks for posting this, since I went to the drop to ask if they would work with an X7. So I should buy the matched pair of duals and a single? Where do I replace them? Total n00b to op-amps, but not a n00b with soldering and electronics so I am unlikely to ruin my X7 if I just know where to place the op-amps.


here's a link to another thread here on Head-Fi that has some information that should help you (Link).

Also, no soldering needed...it's as easy and straight forward a swap you will do! Here's a link that will show you where the access panel on the X7 is (X7 op-amp access)

You will need matched singles and matched dual $85.00 total for a complete swap.

As "Find the Door" mentioned the Sparkos op amps are considered superior to these, but, for me, they are just too expensive for me to take the plunge. Now if I could get the Sparkos for the same price, or even a little more, as these Burson's I would get the Sparkos! Just not willing to spend double. Geez my pockets hurt this time of year!

Find the Door - should I contact Sparkos directly?


----------



## illram

Just got an update that I'll be getting my Super X-Fi tomorrow, if Fed-Ex keeps their delivery date. So that's mildly exciting news. I'll post my impressions when it arrives and I have some time. Hopefully anyone else who ordered day 1 also got the same email!


----------



## Find the Door

DCB305 said:


> Find the Door - should I contact Sparkos directly?



I would recommend it - I had an issue with a shipment and he sent me replacements no questions asked.

Very nice gentlemen


----------



## Yethal

As an owner of both v5i and Sparkos, get Sparkos. Price difference is totally worth it. Also mr Andrew Sparks is a headfier and does sometimes post in the X7 thread.


----------



## silverthornne

Yethal said:


> As an owner of both v5i and Sparkos, get Sparkos. Price difference is totally worth it. Also mr Andrew Sparks is a headfier and does sometimes post in the X7 thread.



You guys make a wonderful case in favor of Sparkos, so I have chosen to take that route. Just gonna take a while to read the relevant threads before taking the plunge. I abhor Facebook, so I doubt I will go the route of contacting them via that platform...


----------



## DCB305

Yethal said:


> As an owner of both v5i and Sparkos, get Sparkos. Price difference is totally worth it. Also mr Andrew Sparks is a headfier and does sometimes post in the X7 thread.


I checked Sparkos website and i've heard nothing but good things about him and his products, but $240.00 to replace the X7 op amps with Sparkos is a bit steep for me. 

In addition I wouldn't/ couldn't ask him to discount his products for me. If they were $120.00 or $140.00 for the full set I would definitely go ahead and order the Sparkos no question.

As it stands, for $85.00 all in, I will settle for the Burson upgrade.

Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

DCB305 said:


> I checked Sparkos website and i've heard nothing but good things about him and his products, but $240.00 to replace the X7 op amps with Sparkos is a bit steep for me.
> 
> In addition I wouldn't/ couldn't ask him to discount his products for me. If they were $120.00 or $140.00 for the full set I would definitely go ahead and order the Sparkos no question.
> 
> ...


You don't have to order both pairs at the same time. When I ordered mine I first ordered singles only and bought the doubles a couple of months later.


----------



## tmaxx123 (Dec 17, 2018)

Find the Door said:


> You need to get a pair of singles and duals.
> 
> Its worthy of note that Sparkos OP amps are considered to be the best replacements.  Also that typically when you installed the duals you can't really utilize your bottom cover.
> 
> ...



^this
I’d go with the sparkos, if you want the absolute best. Can’t recommend them enough. I got mine from his eBay store last year after messaging back and forth with the owner for a bit. Helpful guy, solid product.


----------



## illram (Dec 20, 2018)

I gave the Super X-Fi a whirl tonight. A few not-so-brief observations:


It is very small. About the size of a small cigarette. This is not going to be an issue sticking out of your phone.

Setup was surprisingly easy (unless you have an iPhone. I don't think they have an iPhone app yet). Whoever Creative put on their app team for this did a good job; I have been less than impressed with numerous Creative software applications but this was well done. You take a picture of your right ear, your left ear, and your face, and select your headphones, and you are off to the races. The headphone selection is currently limited but there are a number of popular ones there; e.g. AKG K701's, DT880 and DT990's, all of Creative's headphones, Sennheiser 598 and 800, and others. There is also a generic option.

In typical Creative head-scratching marketing-fashion, they push you into perhaps the least likely avenue that the 3D holographic effect is really going to be worth it: Music on your phone. I enjoy listening to normal, stereo sound for music on my headphones. If you want a realistic creation of two stereo speakers in a room for music on your headphones, this will definitely synthesize that for you, but I feel like you lose some audio fidelity with that. Also I was getting 10 seconds of weird audio static in everything I listened to around the beginning of every video. It would go away but it was annoying and seemed to be an issue with the Android USB audio as it happened on every app.

And as far as finding surround content an Android phone, this is hit or miss; I had trouble finding 5.1 or 7.1 audio content on Netflix on android, for example, where I could confirm I was getting a surround feed. Multi-channel test .wav files on Chrome browser would crash. Youtube is always a bad idea for surround tests as I don't believe Youtube passes accurate channel information. BUT, even in stereo sound only, you get a very very realistic "out of your head" effect with this device. I would characterize it more as a room speaker simulation than a virtual surround sound, if that makes any sense. Sort of like the Realiser A16. I first tried it with the free Aurvana SE headphones they gave me for ordering day 1, and it was very noticeable and realistic. More so than almost any other VSS DSP I have tried thus far.

But, forget your phone. The real use for this in my opinion is surround virtualization for movies and games. This is where the device can really show itself off as I explain below.

To really put it through its paces, I tried it on Windows with 7.1 enabled. You can select 7.1 channels with this as a USB soundcard! Awesome. I fired up some bots in Black Ops 3. I tried it with the Aurvana SE, Audioquest Nighthawks, and Sennheiser HD800S. (The Nighthawks were the closest 3.5mm headphones I had lying around other than the Aurvana's, and I wanted to try something not on their list.) With the Aurvana's and the Nighthawks, there was definitely directionality, and as I said the 3D out of your head sound was very convincing. For closed headphones the Aurvana's did well, which is a testament to the DSP I would say more than the cans. The Nighthawks opened things up quite a bit and improved directionality even though I did not even set the app to "generic." But when I tried the HD800 (which is included in the app)..... WOW. It was incredible. Directionality was very, very convincing. Rear cues were super accurate--this was the best thing I have heard since the Out of Your Head preset and was better as far as audio fidelity. I don't know if this was because the app has a preset for the HD800 (I have an HD800S but whatever) or because the HD800S are just amazing imaging cans with a superb stage, or some combo thereof. But it was incredible and I highly, highly recommend you try this if you like DSP's for virtual surround in video games. And it got them plenty loud! It is cheaper than almost all the other options out there too.

I cannot really speak to how good this is for just music listening yet. As I said there was a little hitch in the audio on Android that would be a deal breaker for me if I could not figure it out, but I don't really plan on using these on my phone much anyway so I don't care, really. In my hour or so of testing though, I did not really notice anything sounding "bad." The 3D holographic effect is not overly "reverby," similar to the good non-reverby quality of SBX. I would say it sounded just as good, audio quality wise, than my X7 connected to an iFi Black Label. Sounds were crisp, bass was fine, there was no distortion I could hear, there was no hiss at all and they were completely silent when nothing was playing. But as I said, this sounds more like you are surrounded by speakers in a room than a headphone simulating a game's surround field. It is just different, but I like the effect. It is very good for pinpointing directional cues.
Also, this has a mic, so no need for a mic input.


----------



## Got the Shakes

illram said:


> I gave the Super X-Fi a whirl tonight. A few not-so-brief observations:
> 
> 
> It is very small. About the size of a small cigarette. This is not going to be an issue sticking out of your phone.
> ...



I’d be all over this if they had an iOS app for configuration if for nothing else but watching movies on my laptop and trying to make the wait for the Realiser A16 a little easier. He’ll give me an updated G6 with this technology and double the price and I’d bite since what I’d really want to use it for would be console gaming.


----------



## illram

Creative needs to revamp their lineup with the audio DSP from this device. Presumably the "SXFI" HRTF personalization they do with the pictures can be used on anything, and from their marketing it looks like they intend on doing that. An X7 like device that just incorporated your customized file for example would be a killer product.

I feel like they are banking on the phone dongle revolution being their "in" here for folks to buy this, but I think this thing is a lot more than a way to listen to stuff on your phone with a cool room speakers effect bonus.


----------



## DCB305

illram said:


> Creative needs to revamp their lineup with the audio DSP from this device. Presumably the "SXFI" HRTF personalization they do with the pictures can be used on anything, and from their marketing it looks like they intend on doing that. An X7 like device that just incorporated your customized file for example would be a killer product.
> 
> I feel like they are banking on the phone dongle revolution being their "in" here for folks to buy this, but I think this thing is a lot more than a way to listen to stuff on your phone with a cool room speakers effect bonus.


Agreed! Gaming and movies would have been a better use for the device...maybe they are trying to get a larger market demographic?

In any event. Is there a way to pass the PS4 DOlby Digital 5.1 audio via optical to a computer and then pass it through and out via USB to the SX-Fi? I ask cause i’m pretty sure that the PS4 doesn’t output 5.1 dd via USB.

Anybody have any idea of how to get Dolby Digital 5.1 from a PS4 to the SX-Fi?


----------



## Pairzilla

So is the SX-FI suppose to work on it's own as a portable amp? Or can it be connected to like an X7 ?


----------



## DCB305

Pairzilla said:


> So is the SX-FI suppose to work on it's own as a portable amp? Or can it be connected to like an X7 ?


It can only connect via USB, so seems intended to be a portable DACs/amp.

Trying to see how to get 5.1 dd from the PS4 to it to use for gaming as it seems like it would be great for gaming. Hopefully someone here will know a way!


----------



## illram (Dec 21, 2018)

DCB305 said:


> It can only connect via USB, so seems intended to be a portable DACs/amp.
> 
> Trying to see how to get 5.1 dd from the PS4 to it to use for gaming as it seems like it would be great for gaming. Hopefully someone here will know a way!



There is no easy way I am aware of. You need to have a chain of device or a single device that (a) decodes the DD+ bitstream and either (b) sends it out via USB PCM (another user pointed me to this device which costs a cool $3k or (c) sends it out via analog multi channel line outs (these devices are common and cheap) and then (d) you need to convert those analog signals into USB. For the last part D as far as I can tell you would need a chain of a multi channel analog to digital interface (Behringer makes the cheapest ones) plus an ADAT to USB converter since all of the interfaces I can find do their digital conversation to optical or ADAT not USB.

So in other words: the answer is no, sadly. Unless you want to spend thousands of dollars or have a mess of ugly boxes and wires.


----------



## Nekrono (Dec 26, 2018)

Thanks to this thread I ended up buying the AKG Q701's 5 years ago due to the clarity and soundstage they provide since I mainly use them for competitive gaming and FPS, I am also very happy listening to everything else whether it's other type of games or music/movies, etc.

Sadly the past few years I have to been constantly soldering the internal wiring since a cable always comes off after a few months of use and I'm at a point where I think it's just better to replace them.

I've been hearing great things about the Sennheiser HD58x Jubilee's and at $150 they seem like a great deal but can someone tell me what to expect from them compared to my Q701's? My main concern is soundstage and imaging as my primary use is competitive gaming and knowing where my opponents are, etc.

The only audiophile headphones I've ever tried have been the Q701's so I really don't know what to expect from the Jubilee's, any help is appreciated.


----------



## headphonesonly (Dec 26, 2018)

Nekrono said:


> Sadly the past few years I have to been constantly soldering the internal wiring since a I've been hearing great things about the Sennheiser HD58x Jubilee's and at $150 they seem like a great deal but can someone tell me what to expect from them compared to my Q701's? My main concern is soundstage and imaging as my primary use is competitive gaming and knowing where my opponents are


58X have great imaging but narrow soundstage. I’d suggest the k702 on amazon since it’s priced under $200


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 27, 2018)

I scored a used Mixamp 5.8 with official rechargable battery for $50 on Ebay. Arrived today. Aux In doesn't work (which I wanted to connect the GSX1000 to), but everything else works perfectly. For the price, I'm happy. I connected the Creative G6 via optical.

Bought it because I want something for late night use and not be tethered. My PortaPro wireless gets abused daily at work, and I don't wanna deal with the hassle of constantly repairing it between so many devices. Now I can use my HE400 "wirelessly", and the KSC75X I have that doesn't get much use because I hardly ever touch my Nintendo Switch, but absolutely will use the 75X now at home.

I got incredibly lucky. These things usually go for much more. Just the RX unit tends to cost more than this. Christmas/bday present for me.


*Oh wow, just updated the G6 drivers and stuff, and it looks like they addressed most of the original complaints I had with the software. Creative, you guys did a bang up job. I love that now whether the program is fully open or in a small window, the list is still in the same order, etc. The switch between applying headphone surround to headphone or optical/line out is now a checked box box instead of having to choose is also a very nice, more intuitive touch.

The settings and sign in still move away from the other options, but it's not a big deal really. I guess they really want it on the bottom.*


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I scored a used Mixamp 5.8 with official rechargable battery for $50 on Ebay. Arrived today. Aux In doesn't work (which I wanted to connect the GSX1000 to), but everything else works perfectly. For the price, I'm happy. I connected the Creative G6 via optical.
> 
> Bought it because I want something for late night use and not be tethered. My PortaPro wireless gets abused daily at work, and I don't wanna deal with the hassle of constantly repairing it between so many devices. Now I can use my HE400 "wirelessly", and the KSC75X I have that doesn't get much use because I hardly ever touch my Nintendo Switch, but absolutely will use the 75X now at home.
> 
> I got incredibly lucky. These things usually go for much more. Just the RX unit tends to cost more than this. Christmas/bday present for me.



I secured a 5.8 for £38 today with official battery also  

I have a G6 already also but as I play in the lounge, sometimes don't want cables across the floor etc.  Presumably connecting via the optical on the G6 only is for preserving the SBX effects and has no other benefits? From when I had one before, I'm guessing the 5.8 will only want to be paired with very efficient headphones (thinking of using my SHP9500 with it and saving my other devices for when plugged directly into the G6).


----------



## GravY

Find the Door said:


> On the PS4 do you use Dolby Digital 5.1?  In a game like Battlefield for example what should you use?  Headphones or home theater?



Actually try this. I don't have a ps4 so I'm not sure where  the exact settings will be. But for BFV set your PS4 to stereo and turn off any Dolby settings on your headphones. Enable the in game 3d audio. This audio settings is a binaural recording and it sounds amazing. Give it a go.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

GravY said:


> Actually try this. I don't have a ps4 so I'm not sure where  the exact settings will be. But for BFV set your PS4 to stereo and turn off any Dolby settings on your headphones. Enable the in game 3d audio. This audio settings is a binaural recording and it sounds amazing. Give it a go.



This is what I do also on PS4. Can confirm it sounds great


----------



## JoshMo87 (Dec 31, 2018)

So I’ve got a G6 but I’m also planning to get a Schiit Modi 3 and Magni. If I send the G6 optical to the Schiit stack will everything still work? As in SBX and all of the Mixing options? Would it be better to just use the G6 as a dac for the Magni, or would the Modi 3 sound any better?


----------



## headphonesonly

JoshMo87 said:


> So I’ve got a G6 but I’m also planning to get a Schiit Modi 3 and Magni. If I send the G6 optical to the Schiit stack will everything still work? As in SBX and all of the Mixing options? Would it be better to just use the G6 as a dac for the Magni, or would the Modi 3 sound any better?


Yes and all dacs under $200 I’ve tried sound the same so I would get a magni or jds atom and use the g6 as a dac


----------



## PurpleAngel

JoshMo87 said:


> So I’ve got a G6 but I’m also planning to get a Schiit Modi 3 and Magni. If I send the G6 optical to the Schiit stack will everything still work? As in SBX and all of the Mixing options? Would it be better to just use the G6 as a DAC for the Magni, or would the Modi 3 sound any better?


If you have a Creative Labs X G6, why even buy the Schiit stack?


----------



## JoshMo87

PurpleAngel said:


> If you have a Creative Labs X G6, why even buy the Schiit stack?


I’m planning of getting the HD6xx and from what I understand, the extra amp power will really open them up. Plus I believe it will produce better sound quality overall.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

So I this is the VSS setup I'm building right now:

ROG Hero VI internal sound card (7.1) > external DAC (stereo) > external amp > stereo headphones

How should I hook up the sound card to the external dac if I wanna use surround virtualization software (HeSuVi)? I could use either speaker/headphone line out or optical S/PDIF. Does it matter? Cuz I'm wondering: When using analog line out, won't the audio already be processed by the internal sound card DAC before it reaches the external? Would that double dac processing be bad in terms of audio quality? On the other hand, what happens if I send the 7.1 VSS/HeSuVi stream via the optical to the stereo DAC? Will the 7.1 VSS still reach my ears the way it should?

It's the first time I'm experimenting with external dacs and such so I'm a bit confused.


----------



## mrhanky5555

Trying to figure out why my mic is not working during regular gamechat on xbox.  When hooked up to the adapter I have on the controller and a Y cable it works fine, but the sound is nowhere near what it could be in my dt990’s.  If I hook the headphones up to my Yamaha reciever they sound great but I can’t hear gamechat if the mic is plugged into the controller.  If the mic is unplugged then I can hear teammates. Xbox is hooked up to the reciever via HDMI.  Frustrating.  Is there a portable amp option possibly that can get hooked up to the controller?


----------



## headphonesonly (Jan 2, 2019)

Rhadamanthys said:


> How should I hook up the sound card to the external dac if I wanna use surround virtualization software (HeSuVi)?


VSS from HeSuVi should work whether you have your dac plugged in via usb or optical.



Rhadamanthys said:


> Would that double dac processing be bad in terms of audio quality?


There is no such thing as "double dac processing". You may have gotten this confused with double amping. Double amping doesn't really hurt sound quality but, if the first amp has a lot of background hiss, the second amp will also amplify the first amps background hiss which can be very annoying.

Using a portable amp with a phone is technically double amping and that is perfectly fine.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rhadamanthys said:


> So I this is the VSS setup I'm building right now:
> ROG Hero VI internal sound card (7.1) > external DAC (stereo) > external amp > stereo headphones
> How should I hook up the sound card to the external dac if I wanna use surround virtualization software (HeSuVi)? I could use either speaker/headphone line out or optical S/PDIF. Does it matter? Cuz I'm wondering: When using analog line out, won't the audio already be processed by the internal sound card DAC before it reaches the external? Would that double dac processing be bad in terms of audio quality? On the other hand, what happens if I send the 7.1 VSS/HeSuVi stream via the optical to the stereo DAC? Will the 7.1 VSS still reach my ears the way it should?
> It's the first time I'm experimenting with external dacs and such so I'm a bit confused.


Almost every modern sound card will not output (sound card processed) headphone surround sound, thru the analog ports.
Use the sound card's S/PDIF (optical/coaxial) output.
You can not double DAC any audio stream,
You could do DAC > ADC > DAC, but there is no good reason for it, as every time you change from analog to digital and back to analog, chances are you lose a little of the audio quality.

You can have a separate DAC for each PCM audio stream,
like 2.0 stereo audio could have one DAC for the right channel and one DAC for the left channel.


----------



## Cesarlo

Hi,

I'm wondering if any of you could offer some advice.

I've been using the X2's with the Creative G6 and fancied trying out the AKG 712 Pro's. They've arrived today and they sound great, even more comfortable than the X2's, which I thought was impossible...

But I wish I could turn the volume up on them just a little bit more. I've got the dial all the way up on the G6, but I can't help but feeling it's missing that little bit extra but not being able to turn them up a little bit more.

Or maybe it's just my ears...? I don't know. They're not quiet by any means, but I'm surprised this is seemingly the max.

Anything else I can do? Any settings within the G6 that I could tweak?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Cesarlo said:


> Hi,
> I'm wondering if any of you could offer some advice.
> I've been using the X2's with the Creative G6 and fancied trying out the AKG 712 Pro's. They've arrived today and they sound great, even more comfortable than the X2's, which I thought was impossible...
> But I wish I could turn the volume up on them just a little bit more. I've got the dial all the way up on the G6, but I can't help but feeling it's missing that little bit extra but not being able to turn them up a little bit more.
> ...


Do you have maxed out the volume control of the source of whatever the G6 is plugged into?


----------



## Cesarlo

PurpleAngel said:


> Do you have maxed out the volume control of the source of whatever the G6 is plugged into?



Apologies, I should have mentioned that the G6 is plugged into my PS4. The only option I can see within the PS4 is "Volume Control (Headphones)", but that doesn't change the overall voume. 

I'm going back and forth between the X2 and AKG 712 Pro, comparing the same music and footage captured in game, and the latter do sound better overall, but they seem to be ever so slightly quiet, like I'd love to be able to take them up a notch or two.

It might be because I'm coming from the X2, which if anything were probably a little too loud, and they're so bass heavy too. Might be a case of needing a little time to adjust, but I just wondered if they were any other options, particularly within the G6 itself.

Thanks for the response.


----------



## JoshMo87 (Jan 3, 2019)

mrhanky5555 said:


> Trying to figure out why my mic is not working during regular gamechat on xbox.  When hooked up to the adapter I have on the controller and a Y cable it works fine, but the sound is nowhere near what it could be in my dt990’s.  If I hook the headphones up to my Yamaha reciever they sound great but I can’t hear gamechat if the mic is plugged into the controller.  If the mic is unplugged then I can hear teammates. Xbox is hooked up to the reciever via HDMI.  Frustrating.  Is there a portable amp option possibly that can get hooked up to the controller?


I’m not by my Xbox so I’m going by memory, forgive me if I’m not correctly remembering where the setting is.

If you go into the settings app, then sound and display, then volume, you should see a setting there to change chat output, have it set on headphones and speakers.

I know it works if your audio is going out of the optical port on the Xbox, but I’m pretty sure it works with hdmi as well.


----------



## mrhanky5555

JoshMo87 said:


> I’m not by my Xbox so I’m going by memory, forgive me if I’m not correctly remembering where the setting is.
> 
> If you go into the settings app, then sound and display, then volume, you should see a setting there to change chat output, have it set on headphones and speakers.
> 
> I know it works if your audio is going out of the optical port on the Xbox, but I’m pretty sure it works with hdmi as well.




Yea I definitely tried that with no luck.   Never tried it with the optical though.


----------



## JoshMo87

mrhanky5555 said:


> Yea I definitely tried that with no luck.   Never tried it with the optical though.


I’ve been looking into the issue, and I can’t find anybody that’s gotten chat to go through hdmi. It seems that only the optical can output chat.. does your receiver have an optical port? Also, some said that they didn’t have chat mix options with this set up, so keep that in mind.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Cesarlo said:


> Apologies, I should have mentioned that the G6 is plugged into my PS4. The only option I can see within the PS4 is "Volume Control (Headphones)", but that doesn't change the overall voume.
> 
> I'm going back and forth between the X2 and AKG 712 Pro, comparing the same music and footage captured in game, and the latter do sound better overall, but they seem to be ever so slightly quiet, like I'd love to be able to take them up a notch or two.
> 
> ...



Excuse this comment if already tried but have you moved the gain switch on the side of the G6 to 'H' - this sounds like what I experienced with the K702, Low gain wasn't quite enough to get the levels I wanted. The X2 are so much easier to drive than the 712 so Low gain is more than sufficient for them.


----------



## mindbomb

Rhadamanthys said:


> So I this is the VSS setup I'm building right now:
> 
> ROG Hero VI internal sound card (7.1) > external DAC (stereo) > external amp > stereo headphones
> 
> ...



The way all headphone virtual surround sound works is by taking surround sound input and converting it to binaural output. The binaural output is 2 channel, so it will work over stereo connections.

Dacs need digital input by definition, typically either usb or optical.

Applications will typically output surround sound only if the windows default format is set to surround sound. This is going to be a problem if you use usb dacs or the optical output on your motherboard, since they set the default format to stereo. What hesuvi recommends is to use either voicemeeter or vb cable to create a 7.1 device in those cases. If you use razer surround instead of hesuvi, it will automatically create a 7.1 device - this makes that program a little more easier to use than hesuvi.


----------



## Cesarlo

WhiteHartMart said:


> Excuse this comment if already tried but have you moved the gain switch on the side of the G6 to 'H' - this sounds like what I experienced with the K702, Low gain wasn't quite enough to get the levels I wanted. The X2 are so much easier to drive than the 712 so Low gain is more than sufficient for them.



More often than not it's the most simplest thing, and that's the case here - I'd completely forgotten about the gain switch on the side, as I'd always left it on low due to the X2 being so easy to drive, like you said. Thank you so much! I'm a lot happier with the 712 now.


----------



## Rhadamanthys (Jan 3, 2019)

Thanks for all your replies.


----------



## mrhanky5555

JoshMo87 said:


> I’ve been looking into the issue, and I can’t find anybody that’s gotten chat to go through hdmi. It seems that only the optical can output chat.. does your receiver have an optical port? Also, some said that they didn’t have chat mix options with this set up, so keep that in mind.




Yes the reciever does have an optical input. Yea sometimes the chat mix option isn’t there.  I usually do have the option though.


----------



## JoshMo87

mrhanky5555 said:


> Yes the reciever does have an optical input. Yea sometimes the chat mix option isn’t there.  I usually do have the option though.


Gotcha, if you have a PC near your Xbox, you can have it plugged into that by usb and use the Xbox app for chat. That’s what I do, as I like to be able to customize the G6 on the fly, the chat mixing options are also great.


----------



## mrhanky5555

The optical in on the reciever isn’t paired with the same input as the HDMI from the Xbox though.  It’s paired to a component video in.  Don’t know if that will work.


----------



## halcyon

Creative's SXFI UltraDSP multichannel HRTF-headphones have been released and can be pre-ordered:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/creative-sxfi-air-sxfi-air-c-dsp-7-1-headphones-ces-2019.896908/


----------



## stavros.m

JoshMo87 said:


> Gotcha, if you have a PC near your Xbox, you can have it plugged into that by usb and use the Xbox app for chat. That’s what I do, as I like to be able to customize the G6 on the fly, the chat mixing options are also great.



Hey thanks for that idea i was trying to figure out how to get mic working on the xbox with a modmic 5 and dt 990. So i was looking at upgrading the modmic 5 to the modmic wireless this way i can connect to the pc and use the xbox app for chat. Just curious does the xbox app chat work for just general chat or ingame chat also like when playing sea of thieves.

thanks


----------



## JoshMo87 (Jan 4, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks for that idea i was trying to figure out how to get mic working on the xbox with a modmic 5 and dt 990. So i was looking at upgrading the modmic 5 to the modmic wireless this way i can connect to the pc and use the xbox app for chat. Just curious does the xbox app chat work for just general chat or ingame chat also like when playing sea of thieves.
> 
> thanks


I also use a modmic 5. As far as I know, it can’t work with in game chat. Just party chat. When I need game chat I plug the modmic into my controller with a Y adapter. I don’t get mic feedback or great mixing settings but it works well enough!


----------



## JoshMo87

mrhanky5555 said:


> The optical in on the reciever isn’t paired with the same input as the HDMI from the Xbox though.  It’s paired to a component video in.  Don’t know if that will work.


Dang, you could always try an hdmi to component adapter.. not ideal but it’s an option. Is having a laptop or desktop by you not doable with you setup?


----------



## mrhanky5555

I wish lol.  My gaming setup is in the living room for now.  Once I setup a real gaming room this shouldn’t be too much of an issue


JoshMo87 said:


> Dang, you could always try an hdmi to component adapter.. not ideal but it’s an option. Is having a laptop or desktop by you not doable with you setup?



Definitely not doable.  I’m thinking about getting a portable dac/amp strong enough for the 250ohm 990’s.  Been reading up and it seems like the FiiO e11 would be the bare minimum for these.  Still looking to see what the better option for me is though. Bare minimum isn’t my style lol.


----------



## mrhanky5555

Yes the headphones and mic def work plugged into the controller but hooked up to an amp it’s much better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 4, 2019)

Kinda interested in Creative's new Super Xfi Bluetooth headset. I'll see about getting it from them to review.

Price looks good, and they look comfy.

This one they didn't even contact me. I'm legit interested in them, that I contacted them first.

https://en.creative.com/p/headphones-headsets/creative-sxfi-air


----------



## HairyHook

I like the Super X-Fi device. As a portable amp, it's pretty clean and the surround it's pretty awesome. I tested it on PC with a Dolby Atmos demo video and at some point I heard a bird flying behind my head perfectly. I usually don't get a good sense of rear cues with VSS. The problem with the Super X-Fi device is that PS4 (and Switch too?) does not output 5.1 over USB, only HDMI and optical. I need to spend some more time with it on PC so measure how good it is vs SBX and GSX 1000 VSS


----------



## DCB305

HairyHook said:


> ...The problem with the Super X-Fi device is that PS4 (and Switch too?) does not output 5.1 over USB, only HDMI and optical...



I’m not computer savvy, but there has got to be a way to pass the Dolby 5.1 signal from the PS4 optical through a computer and out to the SX-Fi via USB. Not ideal in any way, but should be possible.

Anyone know how to do this?


----------



## HairyHook

DCB305 said:


> I’m not computer savvy, but there has got to be a way to pass the Dolby 5.1 signal from the PS4 optical through a computer and out to the SX-Fi via USB. Not ideal in any way, but should be possible.
> 
> Anyone know how to do this?


 I'm also curious to see if anyone can come up with ideas. Will be happy to test if I have the right equipment.


----------



## illram

DCB305 said:


> I’m not computer savvy, but there has got to be a way to pass the Dolby 5.1 signal from the PS4 optical through a computer and out to the SX-Fi via USB. Not ideal in any way, but should be possible.
> 
> Anyone know how to do this?


I thought the same but it is not easy. You either have to spend thousands on a single piece of niche equipment or have a monstrosity of devices and wire mess. Basically you need a dolby-capable DAC and then a multi-channel ADC and then depending on the ADC output you might also need a converter. E.g. most multichannel analog to digital mixers use ADAT out not USB so you would need to convert that as well. 

Not worth it in my opinion.


----------



## DCB305

illram said:


> ...Basically you need a dolby-capable DAC and then a multi-channel ADC and then depending on the ADC output you might also need a converter...



So there is no way to plug my optical cable from my PS4 into the computers optical “in” and then pass that signal back out via the computers USB to the SX-Fi amp?

Well crap!


----------



## illram (Jan 4, 2019)

DCB305 said:


> So there is no way to plug my optical cable from my PS4 into the computers optical “in” and then pass that signal back out via the computers USB to the SX-Fi amp?
> 
> Well crap!


I don't think optical input with dolby decoding and USB out exists in a PC soundcard. And optical in is rare in PC soundcards these days it seems anyways. (I can't remember the last time I saw it on a motherboard, I don't think a mobo with optical input exists.)

Creative has a few options with one or the other but not the complete package. E.g. the SoundBlaster Z has optical input and Dolby encoding but no decoding. The X-Fi has dolby digital live decoding but no optical input. The Zx soundcard as optical input and dolby decoding but no USB out. (You can't use its optical out and then a USB converter as you cannot send 6 decoded PCM channels via optical.)

I suppose one loose end was I could never find out if you could take the optical in from the Zx, decode it with the software, and then somehow pump it back out via the motherboard's USB controller. Does anyone know the answer to that?

This is why the Smyth Realiser is such a big deal by the way. It does all this stuff AND has the best VSS.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I was interested in a set of the SXFI Air headphones for PS4 use - but guess the same limitations apply there also.  Presuming they only connect to the console via USB also?


----------



## illram

The best you could do is 2 channel as I don't think the PS4 puts out 5.1 over USB.


----------



## Yethal

DCB305 said:


> I’m not computer savvy, but there has got to be a way to pass the Dolby 5.1 signal from the PS4 optical through a computer and out to the SX-Fi via USB. Not ideal in any way, but should be possible.
> 
> Anyone know how to do this?


Nope, decoding Dolby Digital to 5.1 PCM and sending it to another digital device would violate Dolby ToS.


----------



## Sonic1990

Hello guys! Rly need ur help.
I have old PCI-E card in my pc, Creative x-fi titanium hd. I use both RCA ports(active speakers krk) and 1 jack(K712). Im looking for something newer and mb better or at least same sound quality, with option to connect PS4. Also im tired to turn off/on headphone jack then its needed from pci-e.
I have only 2days while my friend in Austria and theres a chance to get something by good price.
And rly thank god i find this resource Head fi.org. I get tons of new info for me.

After few days in searching/reading my chose went to SMSL M6. https://www.amazon.de/SMSL-Decoder-...e=UTF8&qid=1546686884&sr=8-2&keywords=SMSL+M6

Is it good idea to swap pci-e soundcard for usb desktop dac amp? Also interesting is there any option in M6 to switch rca/jack modes without turning out cables) I type to SMSL support today but still no answer..
Rly hope for ur advice! Thanks and Happy New YEar!


----------



## PurpleAngel

If I was you, as the Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) makes a good DAC.
I would keep using the Ti-HD  and make sure the motherboard's on-board audio is disabled in the BIOS.
Get a headphone amplifier and connect the Ti-HD's RCA jacks to the input on the head amp and connect the head amp's line-output to the KRK studio monitors.

With the PS4, do you need headphone surround sound or do you normally use it in stereo (2.0) mode?


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 5, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> If I was you, as the Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) makes a good DAC.
> I would keep using the Ti-HD  and make sure the motherboard's on-board audio is disabled in the BIOS.
> Get a headphone amplifier and connect the Ti-HD's RCA jacks to the input on the head amp and connect the head amp's line-output to the KRK studio monitors.
> 
> With the PS4, do you need headphone surround sound or do you normally use it in stereo (2.0) mode?



Motherboard's on-board audio is disabled in the BIOS.
If i understand correct, i find http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1 as head apm for example, and if i right its look simple: Ti HD>head amp>krk. And looks like no others optical in for PS4.
Also find https://www.amazon.de/SMSL-M3-Verst...=UTF8&qid=1546712378&sr=8-14&keywords=SMSL+SA but there is no RCA in.
With ps4 i only have expirience with tv sound) so i prefer if possible make surround for deep dive in games.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Sonic1990 said:


> Motherboard's on-board audio is disabled in the BIOS.
> If i understand correct, i find http://www.schiit.com/products/magni-1 as head amp for example, and if i right its look simple: Ti HD>head amp>krk. And looks like no others optical in for PS4.
> Also find https://www.amazon.de/SMSL-M3-Verstärker-mit-Kopfhörer-schwarz/dp/B019Y5TR6O/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1546712378&sr=8-14&keywords=SMSL+SA but there is no RCA in.
> With ps4 i only have experience with TV sound) so i prefer if possible make surround for deep dive in games.


For headphone surround sound with the PS4, you would need something like the Astro Mix-amp, connected to the PS4's optical output,
or connect the PS4's HDMI output to a modern A/V receiver (that has built in headphone surround sound), to have headphone surround sound, with the PS4.

The Ti-HD can pass it's CMSS3D headphone surround sound out it's line-output (RCA) jacks.
The SMSL M3 could be connected to both the PC or PS4, but offers no built in function for headphone surround sound.


----------



## Sonic1990

How hard is it..brain gonna blow up! 
I think i safe money and buy some good desktop dac amp for next year. Can some1 tell any good solutions for desktop dac amp? About +-400 euro. With rca, headphones, opt for ps4 and usb for pc ofc =) something like SMSL M6 but better, coz looks like no reason swap Ti HD for this, only different cable management.
At least i get AKG 712pro this year =)


----------



## illram

Creative X7?


----------



## Sonic1990

illram said:


> Creative X7?



Nono, no Creative, have about 10years expirience with them) Creative is a trash as mark, IMO.

Maybe i get https://www.amazon.de/Creative-Labs...=1546723520&sr=8-11&keywords=creative+usb+ps4  only for PS4 for this year.


----------



## illram (Jan 5, 2019)

Sonic1990 said:


> Nono, no Creative, have about 10years expirience with them) Creative is a trash as mark, IMO.
> 
> Maybe i get https://www.amazon.de/Creative-Labs-Sound-blasterx-G1-7-1-Kanäle/dp/B01DLY3IW8/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1546723520&sr=8-11&keywords=creative+usb+ps4  only for PS4 for this year.



Try the G6 also which is much cheaper and you may not need the X7's feature set (You had a high enough budget suggested though). The X7 has RCA outs but is only really worth it if you want to also use its passive speaker amp. Do not try whatever it is you linked.

Creative makes some good products, some bad ones. The X7 and G6 are pretty well regarded in this thread.

If you do not want virtual surround from your dac/amp, then there are tons of options. You may find some more info on what is the best bang for your buck for a purely 2 channel optical input DAC/amp elsewhere on the forum, as this thread is mostly devoted to VSS-based solutions.


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 5, 2019)

illram said:


> Try the G6 also which is much cheaper and you may not need the X7's feature set (You had a high enough budget suggested though). The X7 has RCA outs but is only really worth it if you want to also use its passive speaker amp. Do not try whatever it is you linked.
> 
> Creative makes some good products, some bad ones. The X7 and G6 are pretty well regarded in this thread.
> 
> If you do not want virtual surround from your dac/amp, then there are tons of options. You may find some more info on what is the best bang for your buck for a purely 2 channel optical input DAC/amp elsewhere on the forum, as this thread is mostly devoted to VSS-based solutions.



G6 dont have RCA, i need RCAs for active speakers. As u say ill try find something else, but it must be rly good for buy in next New Year) much better then Creative 

Btw can u send me to correct topic for searchs desktop dac amp, its a hard to travel here with my low eng)


----------



## illram

Sonic1990 said:


> G6 dont have RCA, i need RCAs for active speakers. As u say ill try find something else, but it must be rly good for buy in next New Year) much better then Creative
> 
> Btw can u send me to correct topic for searchs desktop dac amp, its a hard to travel here with my low eng)



Seriously, don't get hung up on a brand name. That is a mistake.  The X7 stacks up pretty well against more expensive "audiophile" hardware. Check out the in depth review of it here. 

The G6 is not far behind in terms of audio quality and for the price and feature set I'd put it up against a Magni 3 Modi combo, anything from Topping, Fiio E10k, etc. Also if you have active speakers all you need is a line out which the G6 has. Again: if you want virtual surround from the PS4, these are your best options. 

Check the Dedicated Source Components sub forum for more info on alternative dacs and amps.


----------



## mrhanky5555

Will that creative sound g6 be strong enough for a set of 250 ohm DT990’s.  This might be a good option for my Xbox mic situation


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 5, 2019)

illram said:


> Seriously, don't get hung up on a brand name. That is a mistake.  The X7 stacks up pretty well against more expensive "audiophile" hardware. Check out the in depth review of it here.
> 
> The G6 is not far behind in terms of audio quality and for the price and feature set I'd put it up against a Magni 3 Modi combo, anything from Topping, Fiio E10k, etc. Also if you have active speakers all you need is a line out which the G6 has. Again: if you want virtual surround from the PS4, these are your best options.
> 
> Check the Dedicated Source Components sub forum for more info on alternative dacs and amps.



I remember the time then creative stop software update after Win XP and how many time i spend with X-fi HD on Win 7 untill i find Daniel X-Fi Support Pack. That was amazing time)

And i dont get about G6. How can i  connect 2x RCA (krk rp5g3)from my speakers in 1 line out? Feel myself stupid 
THis X7 review most epic review ever
And thx for "Dedicated Source Components"!


----------



## illram

Sonic1990 said:


> I remember the time then creative stop software update after Win XP and how many time i spend with X-fi HD on Win 7 untill i find Daniel X-Fi Support Pack. That was amazing time)
> 
> And i dont get about G6. How can i  connect 2x RCA (krk rp5g3)from my speakers in 1 line out? Feel myself stupid
> THis X7 review most epic review ever
> And thx for "Dedicated Source Components"!



Those are the powered version yes? You just need a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Also called a Y-cable.


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 5, 2019)

illram said:


> Those are the powered version yes? You just need a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Also called a Y-cable.


Like this? https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FJEWGA6EMF6XXJZ5TFXE
And if i use optical line out for speakers, i still have optical line in for PS4? COrrect?)
Powered version? If u mean active speakers then i think yes ) this http://www.krksys.com/Studio-Monitors/ROKIT-5-G3


----------



## PurpleAngel

Sonic1990 said:


> How hard is it..brain gonna blow up!
> I think i safe money and buy some good desktop dac amp for next year. Can some1 tell any good solutions for desktop dac amp? About +-400 euro. With rca, headphones, opt for ps4 and usb for pc ofc =) something like SMSL M6 but better, coz looks like no reason swap Ti HD for this, only different cable management.
> At least i get AKG 712pro this year =)


Audio-GD NFB-11.28
http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN.htm
When you install the NFB-11.28, you can sell off the Ti-HD.


----------



## Sonic1990

PurpleAngel said:


> Audio-GD NFB-11.28
> http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN.htm
> When you install the NFB-11.28, you can sell off the Ti-HD.



Wow looks solid! Thanks!


----------



## illram

Sonic1990 said:


> Like this? https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=FJEWGA6EMF6XXJZ5TFXE
> And if i use optical line out for speakers, i still have optical line in for PS4? COrrect?)
> Powered version? If u mean active speakers then i think yes ) this http://www.krksys.com/Studio-Monitors/ROKIT-5-G3



Yes those Amazon cables would work.

I don't know what you mean by optical line out for speakers, optical is a digital connection. Basically you would connect the PS4 to the G6 with an optical cable, plug your headphones into the G6, and use the line out on the back with the Y adapter out to your speakers. 

One big limitation I should point out with the G6 though is you need to have it connected to a PC to configure it. Once configured and you have updated it to the latest firmware and software you can unplug it from the PC and it will save those settings. But you need a PC to configure it which is annoying if you want to change things frequently. This is not an issue if your PS4and PC are next to each other. The X7 has a phone app and does not have this limitation.


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 5, 2019)

illram said:


> Yes those Amazon cables would work.
> 
> I don't know what you mean by optical line out for speakers, optical is a digital connection. Basically you would connect the PS4 to the G6 with an optical cable, plug your headphones into the G6, and use the line out on the back with the Y adapter out to your speakers.
> 
> One big limitation I should point out with the G6 though is you need to have it connected to a PC to configure it. Once configured and you have updated it to the latest firmware and software you can unplug it from the PC and it will save those settings. But you need a PC to configure it which is annoying if you want to change things frequently. This is not an issue if your PS4and PC are next to each other. The X7 has a phone app and does not have this limitation.




I mean this two https://www.google.com/search?q=sou...AUIECgD&biw=1920&bih=979#imgrc=LYGkmk0hFEXRfM:
OUT for speakers, IN for PS4. Correct?)
What for unplug from PC if its connect by optical with ps4? Pc and PS4 all in same room )

aaah sec looks like i understand! line/optical it mean they are both in same port? can be line, can be optical


----------



## JoshMo87

mrhanky5555 said:


> Will that creative sound g6 be strong enough for a set of 250 ohm DT990’s.  This might be a good option for my Xbox mic situation


It powers my 250ohm dt770’s with power to spare. If you want something specifically for gaming, I think it’s a great way to go.


----------



## illram (Jan 5, 2019)

Sonic1990 said:


> I mean this two https://www.google.com/search?q=sou...AUIECgD&biw=1920&bih=979#imgrc=LYGkmk0hFEXRfM:
> OUT for speakers, IN for PS4. Correct?)
> What for unplug from PC if its connect by optical with ps4? Pc and PS4 all in same room )
> 
> aaah sec looks like i understand! line/optical it mean they are both in same port? can be line, can be optical



Exactly. It's a "mini-toslink" port so it accepts analog 3.5mm or optical. (Toslink=optical). The line out port is the same. 

I think it comes with the necessary mini-toslink connector but if not, this adapter is all you need.


----------



## Sonic1990

illram said:


> Exactly. It's a "mini-toslink" port so it accepts analog 3.5mm or optical. (Toslink=optical). The line out port is the same.
> 
> I think it comes with the necessary mini-toslink connector but if not, this adapter is all you need.



Thanks man! I rly feel like i rank up in audiothings  
Thanks you PurpleANgel! 
Happy New Year guys!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Sonic1990 said:


> Wow looks solid! Thanks!


I've been using the NFB-11.28 for the past year, before that it was the NFB-15, before that the NFB-15.32, before that a Essence STX card.


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 6, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> I've been using the NFB-11.28 for the past year, before that it was the NFB-15, before that the NFB-15.32, before that a Essence STX card.



So i hope you swap NFBs not becouse they broken?) I rly like how it looks, full alluminium, solid box. With tons of things inside (i dont know what exactly), not empty box! Rly solid!

I cant find how much power they can give in speakers in watts, cant find it here http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFN1128/NFB1128EN_Specs.htm or im rly dumb, pls help! I ask coz i have rly rly old old Soviet Radiotechniks from my father left. I find some Fixed output: 2.5V RMS, but i dont get wat is it even is google, cant total understand.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Kinda interested in Creative's new Super Xfi Bluetooth headset. I'll see about getting it from them to review.



HyperX also announced their own USB-C 3D audio NX head-tracking gaming headset based on Audeze Mobius:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hyperx-cloud-orbit-s-audeze-mobius-variant-competitor.897178/


----------



## Zikki (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi Guys.

First post here.

Got my Sound Blaster X G6, AKG K702s and  Mod Mic today. Hooked up to PS4.

Just 2 questions.

1. Linear PCM, Dolby bitstream or DTS bitstream for PS4 output?

2. Any way to disable sidetone all together but still have mic working? Hate sound of my voice im my own ears lol.

P.s. thanks for the Guide Mad Lust helped make my choices easier!!


Cheers. Z


----------



## themrmikemcd

Im sorry if this has already been asked. I have the fio e12 and Dt770s 80ohm  will putting the fio e12  on the 16 setting be okay for these headphomes ie: damage them?  or should I stay on the 0 setting? thanks so much.


----------



## PurpleAngel

I guess your question is, can you set the FiiO E12 to high gain (16 setting) and not damage the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones.
No, it will not damage the headphones.


----------



## themrmikemcd

PurpleAngel said:


> I guess your question is, can you set the FiiO E12 to high gain (16 setting) and not damage the DT770 Pro 80-Ohm headphones.
> No, it will not damage the headphones.


Yes! Thank you for translating what I was saying to myself to know that what you said was what I was looking for! Thank you!!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Zikki said:


> Hi Guys.
> Got my Sound Blaster X G6, AKG K702s and  Mod Mic today. Hooked up to PS4.
> Just 2 questions.
> 1. Linear PCM, Dolby bitstream or DTS bitstream for PS4 output?
> ...


I'm guessing you have the SB X G6 connected to the PS4's optical output port (and USB for power).
So far I can't find a info showing the SB X G6 supports DTS, so no support for DTS Bit-streaming.
So for surround sound, looks like you need to use the PS4's Dolby Bit-streaming.
For 2-chaanel stereo audio, set PS4's audio to Liner PCM.


----------



## Zikki

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm guessing you have the SB X G6 connected to the PS4's optical output port (and USB for power).
> .



Yes connected to optical out of ps4 n set to send the G6 that way.

Ok great so dolby bitstream is best yeah? 

Sorry im a newb. Its only one that lit up the dolby symbol on the G6 so assumed so.

Thanks.


----------



## Lay.

Zikki said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> First post here.
> 
> ...



1. Dolby

2. Press and hold volume knob for 2 sec to switch between playback volume and Sidetone. When in sidetone control, press once to mute sidetone.


----------



## Zikki

Lay. said:


> 1. Dolby
> 
> 2. Press and hold volume knob for 2 sec to switch between playback volume and Sidetone. When in sidetone control, press once to mute sidetone.




You are an absolute legend. Mainly for #2!!!!! 

Thought id have to get used to my own voice.

If this was reddit I'd give you gold. Have some positive vibes n well wishes!!!

Thank you


----------



## Lay.

Zikki said:


> You are an absolute legend. Mainly for #2!!!!!
> 
> Thought id have to get used to my own voice.
> 
> ...



No problem. I also did not like the sidetone with G6 so I just turned it off.

All the PS4 settings should be:

Primary sound output ‘Digital Out’ (Optical) with a format of ‘Dolby Digital 5.1ch,’ under Audio Format - ‘Bitstream’ (Dolby)

Audio Devices --> Output to headphones’ is on ‘Chat.’


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 7, 2019)

Sonic1990 said:


> G6 dont have RCA, i need RCAs for active speakers. As u say ill try find something else, but it must be rly good for buy in next New Year) much better then Creative
> 
> Btw can u send me to correct topic for searchs desktop dac amp, its a hard to travel here with my low eng)



It has a 3.5mm output. You can easily buy a 3.5mm to RCA cable literally everywhere.  People who think RCA is better than 3.5mm fail to realize that unless the device in questiuon keeps right and left separate ALL the way through the chain (most will join at a later stage), they essentially well end up joining somewhere down the line.

I don't know where the Creative hate is coming from, but if your memor of them is from 10 years ago, it is avastly outdated.

10 years ago Vizio was a garbage company. Nowadays, they release some of the very best televisions in the business, at a very good price.

Never bash a company based on outdated perceptions.

Creative has some seriously stupid good gear like the X7 nowadays.

I sold off my X6 and nowadays am just fine with the G6.

I use the G6 sending an optical signal to my Mixamp 5.8. Zero issues. Beforte anyone asks, it's because the Mixamp 5.8 can't do virtual surround for my PC, which is my main use, so I just have the G6 send SBX surround to y 5.8 (Dolby Headphone button off, obviously as SBX is already doing surround).


----------



## headphonesonly

Zikki said:


> Hi Guys.
> 
> First post here.
> 
> ...


To get the g6 to work properly on ps4 make sure you plug it in to the optical port for sound and usb for chat.

As for setting:
      •Digital out (Optical) -> Dolby Digital 5.1ch

      •Audio Format (Priority) -> Bitstream (Dolby)

      •Output to Headphones -> Chat Audio

To turn off the sidetone hold the volume button down till the white ring turns red then quick press it again to turn off sidetone. The light that indicates a mic input on the side of the g6 should be blinking.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Zikki said:


> Yes connected to optical out of ps4 n set to send the G6 that way.
> Ok great so Dolby Bitstream is best yeah?
> Sorry I'm a newb. Its only one that lit up the Dolby symbol on the G6 so assumed so. Thanks.


For S/PDIF (optical and coaxial) Bitstream (compressed audio) passes digital audio thru, is limited to 24-bit/48K and up to 6-channels (5.1)
If you do not Bitstream and are listening to the PS4's audio in stereo (2.0), if you set PS4's audio to Liner PCM (2-channel), you get 24-bit/96k, or maybe even 24-bit/192k audio.
So if watching a Blu-ray movie (in 2.0 audio) or using a Hi-res music CD (24-bit/96K or higher), switch to Liner PCM.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It has a 3.5mm output. You can easily buy a 3.5mm to RCA cable literally everywhere.  People who think RCA is better than 3.5mm fail to realize that unless the device in questiuon keeps right and left separate ALL the way through the chain (most will join at a later stage), they essentially well end up joining somewhere down the line.
> 
> I don't know where the Creative hate is coming from, but if your memor of them is from 10 years ago, it is avastly outdated.
> 
> ...


Well, they still didn't learn how to write stable drivers. Or how to write Linux drivers. Or how to keep in touch with their community (when was the last time Creative rep replied on the X7 or G5 thread?). Don't get me wrong they improved a lot when it comes to hardware but there is still room for improvement.


----------



## Sonic1990 (Jan 8, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It has a 3.5mm output. You can easily buy a 3.5mm to RCA cable literally everywhere.  People who think RCA is better than 3.5mm fail to realize that unless the device in questiuon keeps right and left separate ALL the way through the chain (most will join at a later stage), they essentially well end up joining somewhere down the line.
> 
> I don't know where the Creative hate is coming from, but if your memor of them is from 10 years ago, it is avastly outdated.
> 
> ...




Ye i alrdy get info about 2xRca to 3.5mm Y cable! =) Very helpfull! Thanks to illram ) And awesome thread dude, rly big good work.

And like *Yethal says, they cant make drivers. *
I cant be even sure what they will support any of their corrent divice after 1 or 2 years. I was like a vooodoooDancer then i want ASIO 2.0 on Win 7 then its just release.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 8, 2019)

They've made plenty of drivers that fixed a lot of complaints. From the X7 to the G6.

The X7 had driver fixes waaaaaay after release. Remember NOT having SBX being piped through the optical and analog out? I sure do. They added that way down the line. They certainly didn't have to. No one else does that. Creative did. That wasn't a feature that was there for likely the first 1-2 years.

So to say they don't listen to the community, I don't believe that, because it was the community that begged for things like that.

Nothing is perfect, and they still have ways to go, obviously, but it's not like they completely abandon their products on initial release.

As for Linux... well, I'd assume they are targeting the biggest markets first and foremost.

Not saying there aren't Linux users, but Linux users that also happen to own a niche product like the X7, that may be something not worth investing the capital for, when the userbase is too small. Business, I guess. Just an assumption, mind you. I seriously don't know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 8, 2019)

In other news, you guys hear about the new Kingston Cloud Orbit planarmagnetic headset coming out?

Audeze Mobius as the base. That's insane. This is going to be huge for Audeze. Kingston is VERY well known in the mass market.


----------



## Lukzar

Hi Mad Lust Envy,

I'm currently upgrading my headphones but don't know exactly which one to pick. I'm playing mostly FPS games (CS.GO, PUBG,...) My budget is 100-200€. I read your reviews and i'm deciding between  Sennheiser HD598 or 599 / 110 AKG K701 (K702) / AKG K712 Pro , since they got best reviees for competitive gaming. Now i have Logitech G430 but i'm not satisfied with the volume and sound. I'm also thinking about getting AMP - Sound Blaster G6 or maybe Senheiser GSX 1200. Which one do you recommend? Are AKG 712 worth 100€ more than AKG K701? Should i get only AMP and keep my G430? Thx for the help.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Lukzar said:


> Hi Mad Lust Envy,
> 
> I'm currently upgrading my headphones but don't know exactly which one to pick. I'm playing mostly FPS games (CS.GO, PUBG,...) My budget is 100-200€. I read your reviews and I'm deciding between  Sennheiser HD598 or 599 / 110 AKG K701 (K702) / AKG K712 Pro , since they got best reviews for competitive gaming. Now i have Logitech G430 but I'm not satisfied with the volume and sound. I'm also thinking about getting AMP - Sound Blaster G6 or maybe Sennheiser GSX 1200. Which one do you recommend? Are AKG 712 worth 100€ more than AKG K701? Should i get only AMP and keep my G430? Thx for the help.


For FPS gaming, I would go with the Sound Blaster X G6 and HD598/HD599 (personal preference).
The AKG K701/K712 are more power hungry, but would assume(?) the SB X G6 could still drive them.
I'm sure the K701/K712 would be fine for FPS gaming and the K712 would be great for music.

Assuming your gaming on a Windows PC, what is the make and model of the motherboard?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Using a G6 and K712 Pro combo here on PS4 and G6 has more than enough in reserve to drive the AKGs


----------



## Lukzar

Thx for the reply. Yes I'm gaming on PC and m graphic card just died and now I'm upgrading whole thing. 

CPU: i5 4670K
CPU Cooler: Phanteks PH-TC14PE
Graphic card: Sapphire RX 580 
Motherboard: MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming
RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4x4GB DDR3
Power: XFX PRO 650W XXX Edition

This is my current build. Still waiting for my graphic card to come (day or two). In near future i'm also upgrading my board and than RAMs, CPU and so on. But for now only graphic card (bought also freesync monitor) and sound (headphones, amp). 

 Senheiser 599 cost me 110€ and  K701 are around 120-130. No difference here, just need to know which are more suitable.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Lukzar said:


> Thx for the reply. Yes I'm gaming on PC and my graphic card just died and now I'm upgrading whole thing.
> CPU: i5 4670K
> Motherboard: MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming
> This is my current build. Still waiting for my graphic card to come (day or two). In near future I'm also upgrading my board and than RAMs, CPU and so on. But for now only graphic card (bought also freesync monitor) and sound (headphones, amp).
> Sennheiser 599 cost me 110€ and  K701 are around 120-130. No difference here, just need to know which are more suitable.



Your current motherboard comes with Creative Labs Cinema software (comes with headphone surround sound) and a built in headphone amplifier, so whatever headphone you get could be plugged directly into the motherboard's on-board audio, for FPS gaming.
Maybe hold off buy an add-on sound card or external DAC/amp, until after you have bought a new motherboard.
Some newer motherboards are coming with a built in DAC chip (and hopefully a decent built in head amp) and decent headphone surround sound software.


----------



## Avean

Been using an internal DAC for years so thought of getting an external one. Is Sound Blaster G6 the way to go? Heard alot of praises for it. GSX1000 ive tested once and felt music felt really flat on this one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The GSX1000 makes a better gaming amp with its gsx surround than simply a music one. I still would say that it's my fave due to how amazing gsx surround is to me. If you can live with the less surround and want better for music, then I guess the G6 is a better buy. It's really hard choosing between them as standalones. But if you wanna use them for external stuff, the G6 is a better option.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I sold off my X6 and nowadays am just fine with the G6.
> 
> I use the G6 sending an optical signal to my Mixamp 5.8. Zero issues. Beforte anyone asks, it's because the Mixamp 5.8 can't do virtual surround for my PC, which is my main use, so I just have the G6 send SBX surround to y 5.8 (Dolby Headphone button off, obviously as SBX is already doing surround).



Can I ask:

- Why did you sell your SoundBlaster X7?
- How/Why do you like the SoundBlasterX G6 better than X7?
- If you could have Sennheiser GSX1000/GSX1200 with digital output with the 3D virtualization OR incl. with a beefier headphone amp, would this be your choice over the SoundBlasterX G6 for gaming?

I'm still on X7 with my favourite closed headphones, Audeze Mobius still unopened in box and thinking which route to go. Once I settle, I don't like to tinker and change the system every day (not enough time for that).


----------



## raband

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The X7 had driver fixes waaaaaay after release. Remember NOT having SBX being piped through the optical and analog out? I sure do. They added that way down the line. They certainly didn't have to. No one else does that. Creative did. That wasn't a feature that was there for likely the first 1-2 years.
> 
> So to say they don't listen to the community, I don't believe that, because it was the community that begged for things like that.



No small amount due to the work you're doing (and Namless or EVShrug? I think it was) on here letting them know what we should be expecting.

I doubt without this thread there would have been something that came to their attention to actually implement - credit to them for doing it, but also to you for bringing it to their attention.



halcyon said:


> - Why did you sell your SoundBlaster X7?
> 
> - If you could have Sennheiser GSX1000/GSX1200 with digital output with the 3D virtualization OR incl. with a beefier headphone amp, would this be your choice over the SoundBlasterX G6 for gaming?
> 
> I'm still on X7 with my favourite closed headphones, Audeze Mobius still unopened in box and thinking which route to go. Once I settle, I don't like to tinker and change the system every day (not enough time for that).



Not MLE, but my opinion:

MLE sold because he's moved away from gaming etc and was overkill for his setup?

GSX1000 (for me) is the best VSS solution I've found for headphones - bar none (as far as the VSS goes - isn't the most powerful, just works the best to my head/ears)

X7 is definitely my daily though - suits my setup perfectly - speakers, headphones, excellent dac and amp. It's not the best any any of the options, but is the only one that does EVERYTHING really, really well.

Mobius it a totally different thing though (at least to me) - the head tracking gives me 100% VSS compared to maybe 75% at best on other methods.

The Mobius though, is still just in occasional use - my PC station is used for so much more and I have other sets of cans so that the X7 is the goto.


----------



## yusaykin (Jan 12, 2019)

Hello guys, im new here and just logged in to ask this question. 

I read about MLE's reviews about gaming amps & headphones. 

Im using the asus xonar u3 usb sound card with ad700x for a few months now. 
I use dolby headphone feature and its statisfying generally for music and general gaming stuff for fps games though its another story. 

I'm not quite pleased with its directional audio performance. So I read in MLE's review he compared u3 with amps like gsx 1000 and g6, now, im interested in positional accuracy the most because i like competitive playing. 

Im wondering if the upgrade to gsx 1000 or g6 (i lean towards gsx because the general comments say its better for gaming with vss) will be worth it since im living in a 3rd world country and this stuff is quite expensive here  I wanted to ask and know you guys opinions, should i continue on with my u3 or get one of these for gaming. Btw thank you for this informative guide. 

Cheers.

@raband lol thanks


----------



## raband

yusaykin said:


> Hello guys, im new here and just logged in to ask this question.
> 
> I read about MLE's reviews about gaming amps & headphones.
> 
> ...




Hello guys, im new here and just logged in to ask this question. 

I read about MLE's reviews about gaming amps & headphones. 

Im using the asus xonar u3 usb sound card with ad700x for a few months now. 
I use dolby headphone feature and its statisfying generally for music and general gaming stuff for fps games though its another story. 

I'm not quite pleased with its directional audio performance. So I read in MLE's review he compared u3 with amps like gsx 1000 and g6, now, im interested in positional accuracy the most because i like competitive playing. 

Im wondering if the upgrade to gsx 1000 or g6 (i lean towards gsx because the general comments say its better for gaming with vss) will be worth it since im living in a 3rd world country and this stuff is quite expensive here  I wanted to ask and know you guys opinions, should i continue on with my u3 or get one of these for gaming. Btw thank you for this informative guide. 

Cheers.


----------



## DCB305

Creative SX-Fi for TV, home theater and PS4 estimated launch 3rd qtr!

“During a brief meeting with Mr Sim at CES 2019, The Straits Times was shown a prototype of a Super X-Fi media box, called Sxfi TV. This media box has two HDMI ports - one input and one output - and four USB ports.

Users will need a pair of new Super X-Fi headphones - called Sxfi Theatre. It looks similar to the Sxfi Air, but is not Bluetooth-enabled. Instead, it comes with its own USB wireless dongle known as Sxfi Transmitter.

The user's Super X-Fi profile will be stored on the Sxfi Transmitter. When the Sxfi Transmitter is plugged into the Sxfi TV, users can enjoy 3D sound on the Sxfi Theatre, regardless of the input source, whether it is from a PS4, Blu-ray player or Apple TV. As such, up to four can enjoy 3D sound right at their homes with the Sxfi TV.

The Sxfi TV, Sxfi Theatre and Sxfi Transmitter are expected to launch during third quarter of this year. Pricing is yet to be confirmed.”

https://www.straitstimes.com/tech/w...ve-shows-off-more-of-its-super-x-fi-offerings


----------



## 10ad3d

Hello guys


I need really serious advice

I have Denon D600 with Asus STX II soundcard (Dolby Headphone option enabled)

I’m really satisfied with this combo, very comfort headphones with big soundstage and rich bass, great soundcard, but I just want something more, like an upgraded D600, headphones which will be better than D600 in every aspect (not worse at least)

First step is new headphones, second is external DAC. This post is about first step

May be I should create new topic but I decided to post here

So here is my specific needs:


Headphones type: Closed over-ear


Usage and needs:

60% first person shooter gaming -> Big/wide soundstage and very accurate sound positioning

30% music (generally hip-hop mp3 320kb/s) -> Rich bass

10% movies, youtube, etc. -> Max comfort wearing like my D600 which I can wear for 6-8 hours without any discomfort


Price limit: 1000$


----------



## Sonic1990

10ad3d said:


> Hello guys
> 
> 
> I need really serious advice
> ...




In my opinion there is no matter what kind of headphones/dac u get for mp3 =)


----------



## Jornel

Hello guys! I need some help of you guys.
So, for gaming, my corrent setup is gsx1000, shp9500s and v-moda boom pro.
I think is time to step up the headphones. What do you guys recomend?
I was looking to gsp 500/600 or AKG712 or hd5xx jubilee or hd6xx...
Do you guys recomend any of those or anything diferent?

Thanks


----------



## headphonesonly

Jornel said:


> Hello guys! I need some help of you guys.
> So, for gaming, my corrent setup is gsx1000, shp9500s and v-moda boom pro.
> I think is time to step up the headphones. What do you guys recomend?
> I was looking to gsp 500/600 or AKG712 or hd5xx jubilee or hd6xx...
> ...


Stick with the shp9500. The only headphones I consider to be an upgrade are the focal elex but those are $700 on massdrop.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

headphonesonly said:


> Stick with the shp9500. The only headphones I consider to be an upgrade are the focal elex but those are $700 on massdrop.



I'd echo this - I have the SHP9500, 58x and K712Pro.  I prefer the SHP over the 58x for Gaming and while the 712Pro is an improvement - I'm not convinced the additional cost is justified.  Music listening is a different answer though


----------



## Jornel

Yeah, I’m happy with the shp9500 and I only wan’t to upgrade and invest $200 on a realy improvement. And $700 on those focal is a bit too much for me.
So, sennheiser gsp 500/600 are not worth the upgrade.? I think the price came down a bit.


----------



## headphonesonly

Jornel said:


> Yeah, I’m happy with the shp9500 and I only wan’t to upgrade and invest $200 on a realy improvement. And $700 on those focal is a bit too much for me.
> So, sennheiser gsp 500/600 are not worth the upgrade.? I think the price came down a bit.


The gsp are just side grades in terms of sound. The gsp are built better.


----------



## Tic-Tac

Guys, do any of you use wireless headphones for PC? I'm dying to get some good wireless headphones for my PC...


----------



## Yethal

Tic-Tac said:


> Guys, do any of you use wireless headphones for PC? I'm dying to get some good wireless headphones for my PC...


Audeze Mobius?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Tic-Tac said:


> Guys, do any of you use wireless headphones for PC? I'm dying to get some good wireless headphones for my PC...


Been thinking about a BT headphone for some time as well.



Yethal said:


> Audeze Mobius?



That one came to mind but although it works with a lot of devices I heard it only gives surround with a few.
Do you know which devices I can get surround with and with which it doesn't work at all?
I'm interested in IOS, Android, MacOS, Windows, Xbox and PS4.
Maybe even from an aTV, Smart TV with Firefox OS or from a receiver?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

On a bit of a merry go round again with headphones - so wondered if someone could help me pick a new pair.

While some of the following are great for music, I've yet to find my 'almost' perfect gaming set.  I have a Wireless Mod Mic and Creative G6 and game on a PS4 Pro.

So far have tried, HD58x (not quite spacious enough for gaming for me), K702 and K712 (both just too cold sounding for me) and Phillips SHP9500 (pretty close but not enough clamp or deep enough ear pads plus its been pinched by my son now!!).  Currently have the Audio Technica ATH ADG1X and sound-wise its pretty much exactly what I want.  What I don't really like is the wing head band and I absolutely hate the fixed cable they have used.

Question is, is there a headphone out there that closely matches the ATH ADG1X sound signature, with a more traditional headband and removable cable??  I've been thinking maybe the Beyer DT1990 Pro? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Been thinking about a BT headphone for some time as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IT only does real surround on PC, on everything else it's processed stereo.

What might work for you is to buy a regular set of wireless headphones with s/pdif input at the base unit and connect that to digital output of X7/G6


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thanks for the info.
But wireless for me is to use it with portable devices as well, without extra clutter. So that suggestion won't work.
So it'll have to be stereo then. But if I'm looking a pair of stereo BT headphones maybe there are better options than the Mobius.
Anything good from Sennheiser?


----------



## Yethal

AppleheadMay said:


> Thanks for the info.
> But wireless for me is to use it with portable devices as well, without extra clutter. So that suggestion won't work.
> So it'll have to be stereo then. But if I'm looking a pair of stereo BT headphones maybe there are better options than the Mobius.
> Anything good from Sennheiser?


RS195 is pretty nice.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Not portable at all is it?
I mean a Bluetooth headphone to be used on the go.


----------



## headphonesonly

WhiteHartMart said:


> On a bit of a merry go round again with headphones - so wondered if someone could help me pick a new pair.
> 
> While some of the following are great for music, I've yet to find my 'almost' perfect gaming set.  I have a Wireless Mod Mic and Creative G6 and game on a PS4 Pro.
> 
> ...


Give the sivga sv007 a try


----------



## Kwyjibo

Yethal said:


> Audeze Mobius?


I have a mobius, I can't recommend the wireless mode for gaming due to the audio delay.  Now plugging them into a usb port on the computer in 7.1 mode, then yeah they sound great.


----------



## Fausst (Jan 20, 2019)

Hello fellow head-fi gamers. I have been gaming with AD700/X-Fi Titanium HD for the past 8 years. I am having a hard time deciding on my new wireless headphone. I have an RS-185 on the way coupled with the Antlion wireless mic. However I cannot decide whether I should go for Amiron Wireless; it is closed back. From the comments I read around the web, it seems like Amiron Wireless should have a better sound quality than RS-185. Though I am not sure whether that difference makes up for the fact that it is a closed back. It seems like Amiron Wireless performs similar to DT1770 but less analytic and tiring. DT1770 is not really a go-to gaming headphone from what I gather but should be more fun/immersive than the RS-185, I believe.

So here I am trying to decide.

Oh, and there is the GW100 but I have no clue how it compares to RS-185. I think I watched and read every review out there on GW100, RS-185 and Amiron Wireless. Nobody really compares stuff though.

I care mostly about imaging and sound stage. Some fun would be nice too after all these years with AD700. I would appreciate some advice.

Thanks


----------



## Tic-Tac

Anyone tried Avantree Audition low latency aptX headphones with PC?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 21, 2019)

Tic-Tac said:


> Anyone tried Avantree Audition low latency aptX headphones with PC?


I have it. Worked for the Grado GW100 wireless (Apt X low latency), but not for my Koss PortaPro wireless which it defaults to it's FastStream codec which is fast, but sounds bad. Noticeably so. The Mobius can't take advantage of it, and defaults to SBC with the transmitter.

The Mobius is amazing in many regards, but I absolutely would never game with it in wireless mode. It's a LOT of delay.

If you're accustomed to headphones without the BEST comfort, the Grado GW100 works really well for wireless gaming and takes advantage of the Apt X LL codec. I wanted to keep it, but after a few days, it really started to bother my ears. But I'm very sensitive in comfort.

I had gotten the big bagel pads for it, but it ruins their sound quality enough for me to just disregard the whole thing. The stock pads are fine for an hour or so, but they start to bother after.

In any case, for wireless, I do use the PortaPro wireless with the avantree transmitter with the fast stream codec. It doesn't sound great, but my main concern is not waking up people at night, and at least being able to hear in comfort.

Or rather, I DID, but now I just use my Mixamp 5.8 and attach a KSC75X to it.


----------



## halcyon (Jan 21, 2019)

RE: Comparing different 3D sound virtualization engines (Dolby Atmos, DTS Headphone X, Creative CMSS 3D, Creative SBX Pro Studio, Sennheiser GSX, Razer Surround, Creative SXFI) I stumbled onto this video:



Of course, you can just download HeSuVi yourself and try them out yourself. https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

To my ears (on my headphones, on my soundcard w/ 3D virtualization on card turned OFF) Dolby Atmos, CMSS 3D and Sennheiser GSX sound the best in terms of positional accuracy (esp. front-back localization), without totally distorting the sound.

To my ears, using the settings in the video, Creative's new and improved Super X-FI (SFXFI) sounds like total crap. In fact, every single demo I've heard about Super X-FI - whether games or multi-channel music - sounds distorted, muffled and with bad front-to-back localization.


----------



## halcyon

Onkyo is entering the lucrative gaming sound market with its own sub-brand SHIDO. They demonstrated this gear at CES 2019.

http://www.shido-fsg.com/

Looks like there'll be at least a USB-based external sound-card *SHIDO 002 *(with 7.1 sound virtualization) :







And a headset *SHIDO 001* w/ a detachable microphone coming soon:






Some initial info at different sites:

https://news.mynavi.jp/article/20190113-ces2019_onkyo/
https://audioduvillage.fr/onkyo-shido-lapproche-gaming/
https://www.phileweb.com/news/d-av/201901/11/46260.html

Tags: Onkyo, SHIDO, 3D sound virtualization, USB gaming sound card, 7.1 virtual surround sound


----------



## WhiteHartMart

headphonesonly said:


> Give the sivga sv007 a try



Thanks - I'll take a look.

I've also been looking at the Beyer DT880 (and then getting them modded for a removable cable), DT1990 and Audio Technica ATH-RX70.  Can't get to try any of them first which makes this so difficult!!


----------



## This Is Q (Jan 23, 2019)

I wonder if this would work with consoles.

That was in response to the Shido. I forgot how to quote haha.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'M PROBABLY VERY LATE TO THE PARTY BUT

*Dolby Access is now properly virtualizing 7.1 for any game I tested. *Wildlands, Doom, Titanfall 2 etc etc


----------



## mindbomb

Fegefeuer said:


> I'M PROBABLY VERY LATE TO THE PARTY BUT
> 
> *Dolby Access is now properly virtualizing 7.1 for any game I tested. *Wildlands, Doom, Titanfall 2 etc etc



are you sure? Does it set a 7.1 default format like razer surround does?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jan 24, 2019)

yes, I tested AC:Odyssey, Origins, Wildlands, Doom and a few others.

Titanfall shows 7.1 in the menu. It probably uses some APO stuff and tricks the game to output 7.1

*Also, once you loaded up a game and check out the windows volume setting on the bottom right. It will notify you that Dolby Atmos for headphones is in use.




*


----------



## mindbomb (Jan 24, 2019)

I tested windows sonic for headphones now in overwatch, and it still isn't working, but it's nice to see that dolby atmos for headphone is reportedly.


----------



## Monsterzero

My AstroMix Amp 2013 is starting to act up and I should probably be looking for something new soon.
I use K701,Fidelio X1,DT770s (250 ohms) for headphones. Modmic for mic,and game on PS4 only, and am constantly communicating with teammates,so mic input is a must. 

Are there any alternatives that are better than the Astro for virtual surround on PS4 these days?


----------



## Lay. (Jan 26, 2019)

Monsterzero said:


> My AstroMix Amp 2013 is starting to act up and I should probably be looking for something new soon.
> I use K701,Fidelio X1,DT770s (250 ohms) for headphones. Modmic for mic,and game on PS4 only, and am constantly communicating with teammates,so mic input is a must.
> 
> Are there any alternatives that are better than the Astro for virtual surround on PS4 these days?



Sound BlasterX G6 in every way except game/chat balance control. I have the latest MixAmp Pro TR and G6.


----------



## halcyon

Fegefeuer said:


> I'M PROBABLY VERY LATE TO THE PARTY BUT
> 
> *Dolby Access is now properly virtualizing 7.1 for any game I tested. *Wildlands, Doom, Titanfall 2 etc etc



Has anybody been able to find tests for :

1) Latency measurements of Dolby Access (Or other CPU-driver based virtualizers)
2) CPU usage % or sound stress artefacts during high in-game CPU load

Or has anybody run into any issues with the above?


----------



## BrightCandle

halcyon said:


> To my ears, using the settings in the video, Creative's new and improved Super X-FI (SFXFI) sounds like total crap. In fact, every single demo I've heard about Super X-FI - whether games or multi-channel music - sounds distorted, muffled and with bad front-to-back localization.



It might be amazing but because it isn't using generic cues but user specific ones it may not sound right to anyone other than the person who scanned themself. I suspect it is just bad because in my experience any binaural recording sounds binaural regardless of the generic average ear shape they used on the dual microphone input, so I find it hard to believe that all of them are so far from normality. What I think it is going to require is a review by someone who has experience with CMSS/SBX/GSX and can compare it on positional accuracy. I tried to buy one but I am not sure it is directly on sale yet or if they are just having issues with their website but now I am waiting for someone else to actually say "yeah it sounded garbage generically but once I measured myself and compared to my GSX1000 it is clearly better".


----------



## illram

BrightCandle said:


> It might be amazing but because it isn't using generic cues but user specific ones it may not sound right to anyone other than the person who scanned themself. I suspect it is just bad because in my experience any binaural recording sounds binaural regardless of the generic average ear shape they used on the dual microphone input, so I find it hard to believe that all of them are so far from normality. What I think it is going to require is a review by someone who has experience with CMSS/SBX/GSX and can compare it on positional accuracy. I tried to buy one but I am not sure it is directly on sale yet or if they are just having issues with their website but now I am waiting for someone else to actually say "yeah it sounded garbage generically but once I measured myself and compared to my GSX1000 it is clearly better".



I have it and I have compared it to SBX directly, and it is superior for positional accuracy. After you calibrate it. Its whole selling point is individual calibration so comparing a generic sample of it really does not do it justice.

From memory, it is better as far as positional audio accuracy than any other DSP VSS I have tried. I have tried SBX, Waves, OOYH, Razer, Dolby Headphones, Atmos, Sonic, and DTS. I have not tried the GSX or CMSS 3D.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fausst said:


> Hello fellow Head-Fi gamers. I have been gaming with AD700/X-Fi Titanium HD for the past 8 years. I am having a hard time deciding on my new wireless headphone. I have an RS-185 on the way coupled with the Antlion wireless mic. However I cannot decide whether I should go for Amiron Wireless; it is closed back. From the comments I read around the web, it seems like Amiron Wireless should have a better sound quality than RS-185. Though I am not sure whether that difference makes up for the fact that it is a closed back. It seems like Amiron Wireless performs similar to DT1770 but less analytic and tiring. DT1770 is not really a go-to gaming headphone from what I gather but should be more fun/immersive than the RS-185, I believe. So here I am trying to decide.
> Oh, and there is the GW100 but I have no clue how it compares to RS-185. I think I watched and read every review out there on GW100, RS-185 and Amiron Wireless. Nobody really compares stuff though. I care mostly about imaging and sound stage. Some fun would be nice too after all these years with AD700. I would appreciate some advice.
> Thanks


Me, I would have bought a headphone amplifier and connected it to the Titanium-HD's line-output (RCA) jacks and bought wired headphones.
(an external headphone amplifier, with a low output impedance, should also improve the detail in the audio, for the ATH-AD700)
But that's just me.
We can assume you going to connect the Sennheiser RS-185 optically to the Titanium-HD?


----------



## Fausst (Jan 26, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> Me, I would have bought a headphone amplifier and connected it to the Titanium-HD's line-output (RCA) jacks and bought wired headphones.
> (an external headphone amplifier, with a low output impedance, should also improve the detail in the audio, for the ATH-AD700)
> But that's just me.
> We can assume you going to connect the Sennheiser RS-185 optically to the Titanium-HD?



I just want to have a go at becoming wire free.

I have the RS185 at hand. It took me multiple days but I experimented with multiple configurations. Currently I am using Titanium HD's optical out which has the digital signal processd with CMSS 3D and feed that to the base station of RS 185. The base station and RS 185 performed very acceptable through analog connection with fairly low static noise. But I wanted to give RS185 a pure signal so I am using the optical out atm. It also has no static compared to analog which was very faint to begin with.

I haven't formed any deep comparisons to AD700 setup yet, but the sound stage of RS 185 is not on the level of AD700 which was not surprising. I hoped it would provide a more fun experience thanks to a better bass. The more bass was there but it did NOT lead to a better experience. I guess the rest of the sound feels a bit thin. At least when I put it on, it felt like I lost something initially. Maybe 8 years with AD700 made me even miss its shortcomings  I will make a better comparison with my latest 185 configuration. First, I need to connect things in a way that I can switch between them (between AD700 and RS 185 | also both with CMSS 3D) quickly.

On another note, I took the plunge on Amiron Wireless as the initial expression of RS185 setup felt like a slight downgrade compared to wired AD700 setup. RS185 also has a much higher clamp pressure and the top padding hurt me. There are two independent pads on its top that are quite hard, leading to a feeling like of high pressure from 2 separate points on top of my head. I am hoping Amiron Wireless will be better for comfort. There is also the matter of latency. The 55ms latency (RTINGS measurement) of RS 185 is not game breaking but noticeable. It wasn't responsive enough for me as I play a lot of FPS games. I am sure I would get used to it though. Still, aptx-LL of Amiron Wireless should be around 34ms which would be better. I'll leave my comments on RS185 vs Amiron Wireless too when I get them. Amiron Wireless will be my first proper closed back headphones. So I am especially curious on how much I will lose on sound stage and whether it will be worth (compared to RS185) it sound quality wise.


----------



## halcyon (Jan 28, 2019)

illram said:


> I have it and I have compared it to SBX directly, and it is superior for positional accuracy. After you calibrate it. Its whole selling point is individual calibration so comparing a generic sample of it really does not do it justice.



How is the calibration done on the commercial consumer unit? On the CES demo pro unit it was done using high resolution photography, which the consumer version does not have.

Can you give details how the individual calibration is done the on the consumer unit?


----------



## silverthornne

halcyon said:


> How is the calibration done on the commercial consumer unit? On the CES demo pro unit it was done using high resolution photography, which the consumer version does not have.
> 
> Can you give details how the individual calibration is don the on the consumer unit?



The Android app takes photos of your ears and head. That's it. If you have an Android device, you can download the app and create a profile for your ears, even if you don't have a Super XFi device. The results will probably not be as accurate as the CES demo, but not everyone has a killer studio setup available so they just went with "good enough" with the app.

It's been a bit his or miss for me; certain songs sound amazing but many others add a lot of reverb. It's fun for a different listening experience I guess. I just wish there was a way to tweak the effect instead of just on and off. It does sound great on games though but even then, it needs to be friendlier for PC use. I mean, I see no reason why I need to plug it back in my phone to switch headphone profiles when that list could be added to a simple PC app.


----------



## illram

halcyon said:


> How is the calibration done on the commercial consumer unit? On the CES demo pro unit it was done using high resolution photography, which the consumer version does not have.
> 
> Can you give details how the individual calibration is don the on the consumer unit?


What @silverthornne said. You take pictures of your ears and your face and pick your headphones from a list. There is a dedicated thread on this forum for this product as well.

People have posted that they suspect that all this is doing is selecting from a list a pre-recorded calibration done on a microphone, based on which person's ear/face measurements in its library are closest to your measurements. Rather than performing any sort of anatomical calibration wizadry. Which is still better than 90% of the products out there which are just making all of us use a generic HRTF.  For PC gaming it is my #1 device, now.


----------



## terminaldawn

Hello, I am building a new PC and have the Asus Xonar DGX which has Dolby Headphone built in, bought this back in 2014.  I am happy with this setup however considering this is 5 years old I am guessing there is better tech out there these days and considering an upgrade...

Is there anything I should be considering that is better than Dolby Headphone these days? 

I've been reading about some good and bad with Dolby Access for Dolby Atmos, is that a direction I should be considering? 

Thanks for any help you can offer!


----------



## PurpleAngel

terminaldawn said:


> Hello, I am building a new PC and have the Asus Xonar DGX which has Dolby Headphone built in, bought this back in 2014.  I am happy with this setup however considering this is 5 years old I am guessing there is better tech out there these days and considering an upgrade... Is there anything I should be considering that is better than Dolby Headphone these days?
> I've been reading about some good and bad with Dolby Access for Dolby Atmos, is that a direction I should be considering? Thanks for any help you can offer!


What headphones do you have or are planning on buying soon?
What will be the make and model of the new motherboard?
Are you more into music or movies or FPS gaming?
Budget?


----------



## terminaldawn (Jan 27, 2019)

Thanks for your reply!

I have Senn PC 360s.

ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO 

Strictly for gaming.

No limit to the budget assuming that what I buy will be exponentially better.  As I mentioned I am happy with what I have but I also dont want to live in the past. Example.  I dont want to spend $200 to get a 15% increase in performance for instance, but if i am doubling the sound quality for $200 or whatever that would make sense to me... I understand that this is subjective.  I guess my main thought is just making sure I am not livng too much in the past with Dolby Headphone .





PurpleAngel said:


> What headphones do you have or are planning on buying soon?
> What will be the make and model of the new motherboard?
> Are you more into music or movies or FPS gaming?
> Budget?


----------



## PurpleAngel

terminaldawn said:


> Thanks for your reply!
> I have Senn PC 360s. ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO Strictly for gaming.
> No limit to the budget assuming that what I buy will be exponentially better.  As I mentioned I am happy with what I have but I also don't want to live in the past. Example.  I don't want to spend $200 to get a 15% increase in performance for instance, but if i am doubling the sound quality for $200 or whatever that would make sense to me... I understand that this is subjective.  I guess my main thought is just making sure I am not living too much in the past with Dolby Headphone .


Looks like the new motherboard's on-board audio will offer better audio quality, then the Xonar DGX.
For $30 you could add Creative Labs X-Fi MB3 software
Guessing you might like Creative's SBX headphone surround sound
http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3

Guessing your Xonar DGX sound card will be left in a drawer collecting dust.


----------



## terminaldawn

PurpleAngel said:


> Looks like the new motherboard's on-board audio will offer better audio quality, then the Xonar DGX.
> For $30 you could add Creative Labs X-Fi MB3 software
> Guessing you might like Creative's SBX headphone surround sound
> http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3
> ...


 Awesome!

Thanks for the suggestion!  

Dolby Access also worth it?  (Ill probably buy it regardless, very curious)


----------



## PurpleAngel

terminaldawn said:


> Awesome!
> Thanks for the suggestion!
> Dolby Access also worth it?  (Ill probably buy it regardless, very curious)


I know zero about Dolby Access.


----------



## mindbomb (Jan 28, 2019)

For at the last 2 weeks, I've been using only the official dolby atmos for the headphones in overwatch, as well as the 7.1 hesuvi version outside of it. The main advantage it has is that it can do the up and down dimension in Overwatch (as well as in supported games with dolby access), which you can't get with 7.1. Though I find myself atm thinking about switching back to 7.1 dolby headphone dh2 for the relatively immense spaciousness of it.

With the up and down in overwatch, I don't think I am getting a great feel for it, since not a lot of stuff happens in that plane. There are characters that can fly and stuff like that, but i think the angle you usually encounter them maybe isn't steep enough.


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> For at the last 2 weeks, I've been using only the official dolby atmos for the headphones in overwatch, as well as the 7.1 hesuvi version outside of it. The main advantage it has is that it can do the up and down dimension in Overwatch (as well as in supported games with dolby access), which you can't get with 7.1. Though I find myself atm thinking about switching back to 7.1 dolby headphone dh2 for the relatively immense spaciousness of it.
> 
> With the up and down in overwatch, I don't think I am getting a great feel for it, since not a lot of stuff happens in that plane. There are characters that can fly and stuff like that, but i think the angle you usually encounter them maybe isn't steep enough.



Call of Duty Black Ops 4's Blackout mode could really use Atmos or some other object based audio. There are lots of area with a lot of verticality that are totally confusing sounding in just 5.1 or 7.1.


----------



## Fegefeuer

halcyon said:


> Has anybody been able to find tests for :
> 
> 1) Latency measurements of Dolby Access (Or other CPU-driver based virtualizers)
> 2) CPU usage % or sound stress artefacts during high in-game CPU load
> ...



I've only played AC:O so far, intensively, everything on max and there was no dropout or whatsoever over many hours and that game is really hard on the CPU. (2700x, 2080 TI, 16GB DDR-4 3200). I've actually had dropouts on the G6 during seafaring (while boosting).
One downside of Dolby Atmos for headphones is that the voices are inside your head, the center is not "projected" before your eyes like X7's/SBZ's and G6's SBX or like the Mobius. If you are familiar with the latter it might annoy you (at first).

Haven't tested it with Resident Evil 2 Remake. That games offers both binaural audio and Dolby Atmos so you can actually choose either for the game to feed you its binaural mix or let Dolby Atrmos for Headphones create it.


----------



## Rozzko

Does all virtual 3d sound options works on PS4 on creative g6? I read in one review that 5.1 surround don't work on ps4


----------



## Lay.

Rozzko said:


> Does all virtual 3d sound options works on PS4 on creative g6? I read in one review that 5.1 surround don't work on ps4



Virtual surround works on PS4 but you might want to use PC for tweaking the G6 settings before connecting to PS4.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Does all virtual 3d sound options works on PS4 on creative g6? I read in one review that 5.1 surround don't work on ps4



I'm not the expert.......but I'll make a guess.
In order to send 6-channel of digital audio thru S/PDIF (optical or coaxial), the audio need to be encoded (compressed), using DDL (Dolby Digital Live) or DTS-Connect.
So I would assume enabling the Dolby (or DTS?) setting in the PS4 sound setting, should send the 6-channel of (encoded) digital audio thru the optical cable into the G6.
I'm assuming the G6 can decode the audio back to 6 separate channels and convert it to (2-channel) of headphone surround sound.
I encoded audio can also be referred to as Bitstreaming.
But I'm really just guessing as I never used gaming consoles.


----------



## Rozzko

Thanks. So it's work on ps4 , graeat. 

Last question. Now I have got tritton 720. Connected to ps4 by optical. And I connect my good headphones to tritton 720( basic headphones not good). So I using virtual sound (Dolby headphones). But now I thinking of getting creative G6. 

So, does it will give me really better virtual quality? Or it's just a same? Tritton I bought by 40$,  and creative cost 150$. Does creative give me really boost in virtual sound or not? 
Tritton amp my headphones (meze 99 classics) good, so more power amp I don't need. Little noise of tritton is annoying but I think it's no cost so much. 

So, does creative g6 will be a huge upgrade or it's just a almost same as tritton? 
Please help


----------



## Helvetica bold

Noob question! Ive back to gaming with my Audio Technica AD700x w/ ModMic 4 on the Xbox One X. I play a lot of Battlefield V w/ the in game 3D audio option. Can I get some amp suggestions that would work with Dolby Atmos Headphones and general 3D audio? For a long time Ive was using my 5.1 surround set up but I fell in love with my 700x again.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Thanks. So it's work on ps4 , great.
> Last question. Now I have got tritton 720. Connected to ps4 by optical. And I connect my good headphones to tritton 720( basic headphones not good). So I using virtual sound (Dolby headphones). But now I thinking of getting creative G6.
> So, does it will give me really better virtual quality? Or it's just a same? Tritton I bought by 40$,  and creative cost 150$. Does creative give me really boost in virtual sound or not?
> Tritton amp my headphones (meze 99 classics) good, so more power amp I don't need. Little noise of tritton is annoying but I think it's no cost so much.
> So, does creative g6 will be a huge upgrade or it's just a almost same as tritton? Please help


I would expect the Creative G6 to offer better audio quality.
And I believe Creative surround sound is usually preferred, over Dolby Headphone, for FPS gaming, but I'm not into FPS gaming, so just I'm basing this what others has said.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Helvetica bold said:


> Noob question! I've back to gaming with my Audio Technica AD700X w/ ModMic 4 on the Xbox One X. I play a lot of Battlefield V w/ the in game 3D audio option. Can I get some amp suggestions that would work with Dolby Atmos Headphones and general 3D audio? For a long time I've was using my 5.1 surround set up but I fell in love with my 700x again.


Hifimediy optical DAC.
https://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/SPDIF-9018-DAC?sort=p.price&order=ASC


----------



## Helvetica bold

PurpleAngel said:


> Hifimediy optical DAC.
> https://hifimediy.com/DACs/ready-made-dacs/SPDIF-9018-DAC?sort=p.price&order=ASC


Thank you, that looks great! Can I use that DAC with a Y splitter and still use my Modmic on the Xbox?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Helvetica bold said:


> Thank you, that looks great! Can I use that DAC with a Y splitter and still use my Modmic on the Xbox?


Not sure on the mic, might need a USB (ADC) adapter, a USB thing with a line-input (mic) jack.


----------



## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> I would expect the Creative G6 to offer better audio quality.
> And I believe Creative surround sound is usually preferred, over Dolby Headphone, for FPS gaming, but I'm not into FPS gaming, so just I'm basing this what others has said.


Thanks.

Better - yes.but does it cost extra 120$ for me? 
I will only use it with ps4 for games and film on my stereo speakers. 

My headphones 32om, so I don't need so much power from AMP to drive them. My main reason is upgrading virtual surround sound in games and movies. Does it will give me a huge upgrade in thos? Or its just a little upgrade in it? 
Or maybe it give me virtual surround sound almost as my tritton 720? 
Pls , maybe someone have got tritton 720 and creative g6 ?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jan 30, 2019)

well, I guess everybody kinda expected it but

*DTS will release their own app under Windows 10 and Xbox* and it'll be selectable just like Atmos and Windows Sonic and of course also support the latest DTS  Headphone X . App is called  *DTS:X Ultra

https://www.microsoft.com/de-de/p/dts-x-ultra/9n0h1m8j1308?activetab=pivotverviewtab#*


Also: *Dolby Atmos for headphones* will get *improvements and more customization*. Will get upmixing support as well. 

https://www.windowslatest.com/2019/...tting-dtsx-improvements-for-dolby-atmos-soon/


----------



## mindbomb

Rozzko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Better - yes.but does it cost extra 120$ for me?
> I will only use it with ps4 for games and film on my stereo speakers.
> ...



I would consider it a sidegrade, since sbx and dolby headphone are like on the same level in my mind. For pc users, creative super x fi is the thing that looks more interesting now because it uses AI to help tune it for people based on their pictures and has headphone equalization profiles too.


----------



## Absolute Zero

@Mad Lust Envy in your first post you said that you were blown away by the combination of the AD700 with the Mixamp. Which Mixamp model are you referring to exactly?

The reason why I'm asking that is because the Mixamp PRO TR sucks with *Dolby ON* regardless of the eq you use and I'm thinking of buying the Mixamp you mentioned in the first post. 

Fyi I'm an ATH-AD700X user.


----------



## headphonesonly

Absolute Zero said:


> @Mad Lust Envy in your first post you said that you were blown away by the combination of the AD700 with the Mixamp. Which Mixamp model are you referring to exactly?
> 
> The reason why I'm asking that is because the Mixamp PRO TR sucks with *Dolby ON* regardless of the eq you use and I'm thinking of buying the Mixamp you mentioned in the first post.
> 
> Fyi I'm an ATH-AD700X user.


The 2013 mixamp


----------



## SS4 Goku

For pure fps gaming such as rainbow six siege, and battlefield video games should i buy the ad700x or the akg 702 for my xbox one.


----------



## Helvetica bold

SS4 Goku said:


> For pure fps gaming such as rainbow six siege, and battlefield video games should i buy the ad700x or the akg 702 for my xbox one.


I use the AD700x with a ModMic 4 on the Xbox One X. Its an awesome setup for BFV. Don't know much about the arg 702 tho.


----------



## Absolute Zero

headphonesonly said:


> The 2013 mixamp



Are you sure? Is there only one version of the 2013 mixamp?


----------



## headphonesonly

Absolute Zero said:


> Are you sure? Is there only one version of the 2013 mixamp?


Yep im very sure. MLE has a review of the 2013 mixamp


----------



## Absolute Zero (Feb 2, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> Yep im very sure. MLE has a review of the 2013 mixamp



Alright thanks. I'll see if I can sell my TR and get a 2013 model...where can I see his review by the way?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It was the 2010 Mixamp that I used with the AD700.

DOLBY headphone didn't change throughout those years. The difference was other aspects of the Mixamp. If you didn't like it on the 2013, you wouldn't like it on the 2010.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It was the 2010 Mixamp that I used with the AD700.
> 
> DOLBY headphone didn't change throughout those years. The difference was other aspects of the Mixamp. If you didn't like it on the 2013, you wouldn't like it on the 2010.



I wouldn't be so sure about it, Envy. If you listen to this video you will understand what I'm talking about. There must be something wrong with the Dolby effect on the TR...it can't sound that bad...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2019)

Aaah ok. That is def worse. It actually reminds me alot of the Dolby Pro Logic II conversion. So instead of taking a 5.1 Dolby digital signal and converting into DH2, it MIGHT be takingt from a DPL2 signal and converting that instead. This is how we could get surround on the Nintendo Wii.

DPLII will have surround cues, but sound more metallic. I'm actually kinda convinced
that is what happening in that test vid. It'd be a shame if Astro cut costs by removing DD 5.1 decoding and instead only taking from DPLII Which is a stereo format.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Aaah ok. That is def worse. It actually reminds me alot of the Dolby Pro Logic II conversion. So instead of taking a 5.1 Dolby digital signal and converting into DH2, it MIGHT be takingt from a DPL2 signal and converting that instead. This is how we could get surround on the Nintendo Wii.
> 
> DPLII will have surround cues, but sound more metallic. I'm actually kinda convinced
> that is what happening in that test vid. It'd be a shame if Astro cut costs by removing DD 5.1 decoding and instead only taking from DPLII Which is a stereo format.



That might explain the exaggerated metallic and muffled sound which is only present with DOLBY ON.

So, from your personal experience, which Mixamp would you recommend? I do enjoy Dolby but with the TR it was a disappointment.


----------



## Lay. (Feb 3, 2019)

I'm starting to think that there is some kind of DSP correction in Astro MixAmp TR to correct the sound of Astro A40 TR headphones.

I don't have such a bad metallic sound with TR than in the video above, but it is the first MixAmp that needed to use EQ with my HD598's to sound somewhat natural. The positional audio with MixAmp Pro TR is actually good, but it sounds bad out of the box without some EQ work.

I don't always agree with Zeos and he's reviews, but this time I just might...



Ps. I use Sound BlasterX G6 --> HDV820 --> HD800S &  Røde Mic these days. Astro MixAmp TR is collecting dust in my closet.


----------



## Aliv3

Is there any way to use the astro mix amp (for chat) in conjunction with creative G6 in Xbox?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2019)

I would assume the usb or whatever proprietary connection connection of the xbox one would send chat duties to the mixamp. The Xbox could send optical digital signal to the g6 for main audio, which the G6 could just pipe to the Mixamp through its own optical out. Of course, do not use the Dolby on the Mixamp if using the G6 with SBX.

However, I'm only assuming here as I don't use an XB1 and these newer Mixamps that are specific to a console is new territory for me. I'm used to older Mixamps that worked on both 360 and ps3.

I don't even know if the Xbox would allow chat through usb/its proprietary connection and game audio out through optical at the same time. The ps4 allows it. I have a G6 that sends audio to a Mixamp 5.8 without issues, and I'm sure if I wanted to chat, I could use the Mixamp or the G6 for chat, though I don't have the chat cable for the Mixamp.

I use ps4 and PC. The only xb1 in the house is used for 4k blu ray, in another room.


----------



## mindbomb

The difference between the mixamps might be that they set the newer ones were set to dh3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2019)

Nah, DH3 sounds MUCH worse than even just doing DH2 from Pro Logic II. The spatial difference in soundstage isn't really different from DH2 in the TR example.


----------



## mindbomb

But prologic II is only for a 2.0 source. How could it be enabled with 5.1 dolby digital?


----------



## Absolute Zero

I have checked the guide again, specifically the part dedicated to the virtual surround devices. Considering that the Mixamp TR was a total disappointment with regard to the surround function, which surround device would you recommend? (the old mixamps are too hard to find where I live so I'd exclude them).

I have a pair of AD700X but I'm yet to experience their full power paired with a surround device.I play mainly FPS and TPS/adventure games on consoles and I enjoy positional accuracy even though I'm not quite sure I've ever felt it properly...

The Blasterx G6 seems an interesting device but is it the best in terms of virtual surround for console gaming?


----------



## Aliv3

Guys I have a question .. if I buy for example a AKG 712 pro and put a modmic on it and put the two in to a y adapter and connect to the Xbox command the chat on xbox will work?
Thanks


----------



## JoshMo87

I’ve got a question, if I want to use the G6 solely as a dac paired with another amp, what volume level should the G6 be set at?


----------



## Lay.

JoshMo87 said:


> I’ve got a question, if I want to use the G6 solely as a dac paired with another amp, what volume level should the G6 be set at?



I have tried it with PS4 and the G6 volume knob does not seem to have any effect to the optical out.


----------



## headphonesonly

JoshMo87 said:


> I’ve got a question, if I want to use the G6 solely as a dac paired with another amp, what volume level should the G6 be set at?


The line out on the g6 is a preamp so it is not ideal to connect a headphone amp as you can run into clipping and/or distortion issues. Preamps are designed for powered speakers only as far as I know. But if that is your only option then you want the g6 to be at full volume. I've tested this with my external amp and the output seems to be perfectly fine.


----------



## JoshMo87

headphonesonly said:


> The line out on the g6 is a preamp so it is not ideal to connect a headphone amp as you can run into clipping and/or distortion issues. Preamps are designed for powered speakers only as far as I know. But if that is your only option then you want the g6 to be at full volume. I've tested this with my external amp and the output seems to be perfectly fine.


I find this wierd, as I’ve heard multiple people say that one of the pros of the G6 is the ability to hook it up to a high grade amp and use it only as a dac for its VSS effects. Is there no better way to hook it up to an amp?


----------



## headphonesonly

JoshMo87 said:


> I find this wierd, as I’ve heard multiple people say that one of the pros of the G6 is the ability to hook it up to a high grade amp and use it only as a dac for its VSS effects. Is there no better way to hook it up to an amp?


You can still do that and have no issues like I said before. With the g6 you can connect a better dac to the optical port and you’ll still get to use the features but I would actually only do that if you plan on using a balanced dac amp. People have ran into issues with their headphone amps when plugged into pre outs but with the g6 I didn’t run into any issues.


----------



## dalemissen

I've been using the G6 with a pair of Audio Technica ADG1X. I've just about ran every configuration I can think of, USB into PC, into PS4, and every combination of options with audio out settings and also Creatives software options and different buttons on and off. I have come to the point where I think I've found the best settings for myself to replicate the best positional audio for playing CoD. 5.1 Dolby via optical to the G6. USB to PS4 and chat only function to G6. SBX turned on. Low gain on. Playing with high gain is painful with harsh highs. Playing with low gain allows me to hear a wide range without being fatigued. I'm going to now switch between the G6 and the Astro Mixamp to see how they compare and I'll try that over a few weeks. But playing hard core search with a friend with the Astro and AD700X combo, we both tend to hear the correct directions from my observations. If you had to buy a mixamp / dac for PS4, I'd have no trouble recommending the G6.


----------



## Lay. (Feb 5, 2019)

The G6 line out is a mini toslink out combo jack. If you connect it with optical cable (mini toslink) to the external dac/amp, there is no issues. No clipping, no distortion and balanced dac/amp is not needed altough I have one.


----------



## halcyon

Logitech announced new DTS Headphone:X 2.0 surround sound gaming headsets in their "Logitech G" lineup:






*RGB*

Logitech® G935 7.1 LIGHTSYNC Wireless Gaming Headset
Logitech® G635 7.1 LIGHTSYNC Gaming Headset (wired version of above)
*Basic (same 50mm drivers, less customization)*

Logitech® G432 7.1 Surround Gaming Headset (wired)
There is also Logitech® G332 Stereo Gaming Headset (not surround). More at: 
https://news.logitech.com/press-rel...d-science-new-lineup-gaming-headsets-are-buil


----------



## Absolute Zero

dalemissen said:


> I've been using the G6 with a pair of Audio Technica ADG1X. I've just about ran every configuration I can think of, USB into PC, into PS4, and every combination of options with audio out settings and also Creatives software options and different buttons on and off. I have come to the point where I think I've found the best settings for myself to replicate the best positional audio for playing CoD. 5.1 Dolby via optical to the G6. USB to PS4 and chat only function to G6. SBX turned on. Low gain on. Playing with high gain is painful with harsh highs. Playing with low gain allows me to hear a wide range without being fatigued. I'm going to now switch between the G6 and the Astro Mixamp to see how they compare and I'll try that over a few weeks. But playing hard core search with a friend with the Astro and AD700X combo, we both tend to hear the correct directions from my observations. If you had to buy a mixamp / dac for PS4, I'd have no trouble recommending the G6.



Thanks for the clear answer. Which Mixamp does your friend use? Cause if it's the TR, I'm curious to know which EQ he has...


----------



## AppleheadMay

halcyon said:


> Logitech announced new DTS Headphone:X 2.0 surround sound gaming headsets in their "Logitech G" lineup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




DTS Headphone:X? Intersted in that G935.
Seems like it will work with PC, Mac, IOS, Android, Xbox and PS4?
The DTS on all htose platforms as well?


----------



## halcyon

AppleheadMay said:


> DTS Headphone:X? Intersted in that G935.


Yes, should be DTS Headphone:X v2.0, whatever that means. G935 is wireless only.



> The DTS on all htose platforms as well?



Should be DTS Headphone:X v2.0 7.1 surround on all of those, except the G332 model.


----------



## AppleheadMay

halcyon said:


> Yes, should be DTS Headphone:X v2.0, whatever that means. G935 is wireless only.
> 
> 
> 
> Should be DTS Headphone:X v2.0 7.1 surround on all of those, except the G332 model.



I meant do you get DTS:Headphone X on all OS platforms: MacOS, Windows, IOS, Android, PS4, Xbox.
Or is it like with the Mobius, stereo on all platforms and surround only on Windows.


----------



## headphonesonly

AppleheadMay said:


> I meant do you get DTS:Headphone X on all OS platforms: MacOS, Windows, IOS, Android, PS4, Xbox.
> Or is it like with the Mobius, stereo on all platforms and surround only on Windows.


It looks like it’s only usb so vss will only work on pc.


----------



## PurpleAngel

JoshMo87 said:


> I’ve got a question, if I want to use the G6 solely as a DAC paired with another amp, what volume level should the G6 be set at?


Set the volumes as high as possible, that does not add noise into the signal.
You want to feed the strongest signal possible.

Why use a separate amplifier with the Creative Labs G6?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Aliv3 said:


> Guys I have a question .. if I buy for example a AKG 712 pro and put a Modmic on it and put the two in to a y adapter and connect to the Xbox command the chat on xbox will work?
> Thanks


If the jack on the Xbox Command is a TRRS jack and the input on the Y adapter has one input for stereo headphones and the other input is a line-input (mic), then it should work.


----------



## JoshMo87

PurpleAngel said:


> Set the volumes as high as possible, that does not add noise into the signal.
> You want to feed the strongest signal possible.
> 
> Why use a separate amplifier with the Creative Labs G6?


I’ve got T50’s and the G6 struggles to fully power them, I also want 6XX’s which will benefit from more power as well.


----------



## dalemissen

It's the non TR version. 2013 I believe the are referred to as?


----------



## anticris81

Hola chicos, quería hacerle una pregunta, que me recomiendan, el blaster de sonido g6 o el blaster de sonido x7, sería conectarlo a la ps4 y la xbox, gracias.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 6, 2019)

anticris81 said:


> Hola chicos, quería hacerle una pregunta, que me recomiendan, el blaster de sonido g6 o el blaster de sonido x7, sería conectarlo a la ps4 y la xbox, gracias.


Si tienes dinero para el X7, ese es el mejor producto para todo lo que usted puede necessitar. El G6 se necessita una computafora para cambiar cosas internal, so no lo recommendo si no vas usar una computadora. Y el G6 no tiener un amplificador fuerte como el X7.


----------



## anticris81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Si tienes dinero para el X7, ese es el mejor producto para todo lo que usted puede necessitar. El G6 se necessita una computafora para cambiar cosas internal, so no lo recommendo si no vas usar una computadora. Y el G6 no tiener un amplificador fuerte como el X7.


ok, then I'll go for the x7, thank you very much and congratulations for this magnificent thread.


----------



## Absolute Zero

dalemissen said:


> It's the non TR version. 2013 I believe the are referred to as?



Yeah that's possible. There are many astro mixamp models...if he has the 2013 edition that would explain why he can pick up the directional cues correctly. The TR, on the other hand, has a very bad virtual surround function...


----------



## Lay.

Absolute Zero said:


> Yeah that's possible. There are many astro mixamp models...if he has the 2013 edition that would explain why he can pick up the directional cues correctly. The TR, on the other hand, has a very bad virtual surround function...



There are some bad things about MixAmp Pro TR, but ability to pinpoint sound directions is not one of them. Who knows if there are some bad units or if there is a huge variation in our personal ability how we can hear vss.

This is me playing CoD BO III right after I got MixAmp Pro TR: 

I can locate enemies with it just as good as with G6 and even better than with older MixAmp altough the older MixAmp sounds more natural and organic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having recently used DH on my Mixamp 5.8, it brought back so many memories and justified why I still think it's one of the best virtual surround implementations out there. It just works. And the warmer tonal character is pleasing as well.


----------



## Playstation

Looking for a solid bang for the buck virtual sound device under $100 that is not usb


----------



## Lay. (Feb 7, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Having recently used DH on my Mixamp 5.8, it brought back so many memories and justified why I still think it's one of the best virtual surround implementations out there. It just works. And the warmer tonal character is pleasing as well.



Yes. It is a nice and unique product that I'm not going to sell for sure.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Since my damn gpu is at RMA (error code 43, space invaders) I am back on the PS4 and really appreciate the G6. Playing through Uncharted Lost Legacy right now. Uncharted sound design is so outstanding. I wish Ubisoft games had this recording quality since prior to this I played a ton of AC:Odyssey. I don't get the devs. Graphics-wise mindblowing in rendering and detail and then the sound is crushed down heavily with compression.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Having recently used DH on my Mixamp 5.8, it brought back so many memories and justified why I still think it's one of the best virtual surround implementations out there. It just works. And the warmer tonal character is pleasing as well.



So among all the different virtual surround devices you've tested which is the one you liked the most (for console gaming) in terms of surround sound?


----------



## Playstation (Feb 9, 2019)

Absolute Zero said:


> So among all the different virtual surround devices you've tested which is the one you liked the most (for console gaming) in terms of surround sound?



If I may 

Sony receiver with beyerdynamics dt960's 600- 720's 80 (though the receiver does have surround sound i think i remember learning that its not supported out of the headphone jack) 

Fiio e17 with hd598( the fiio doesn't support surround sound, correct?)

Astro's with mixamp 

Triton's with mixamp 

Turtle beach with earforce 

hd 215's plugged directly into the tv

I still think the beyer's and hd598's sounded best though i guess what i was experiencing wasn't even virtual sorround sound. 

It also seems to depend on the game audio itself. For whatever reason some games just sound better than others.


----------



## Aliv3

So yesterday I got the astro mixamp tr pro and for my surprise I didn't need to connect the 3.5mm cable from the controller to the mixamp for chat :/
I just plugged the audio and mic Jack of the sennheiser pc360 to an y adapter and then plugged in the headphone port on the mixamp and the Xbox recognised the mic. My older mixamp I needed the 3.5mm to a 3.5mm cable for chat.
Are you guys shure that the chat functionality on the creative G6 doesn't work on Xbox?


----------



## Fleshless

So for the last 4 years and a bit i'm using a Fidelio x2 with a vmoda boompro and that shows on my headphones. 
The headband became loose over time and the earpads are becoming loose on the inside. 

As I am really happy with the headphones i wanted to just buy another pair but the few pairs i can find cost more then when I bought them back in 2014. 

So are there any good alternatives? Or at least some earpads that are recommended? would love to keep using my vmoda boompro and my Sennheiser gsx 1200 but if there isnti anything good with a 3,5mm connection I would settle with a modmic 5.

Greetings Fleshless


----------



## HairyHook

Fleshless said:


> So for the last 4 years and a bit i'm using a Fidelio x2 with a vmoda boompro and that shows on my headphones.
> The headband became loose over time and the earpads are becoming loose on the inside.
> 
> As I am really happy with the headphones i wanted to just buy another pair but the few pairs i can find cost more then when I bought them back in 2014.
> ...


Look in the For Sale / Trade section of the forum, you might find a cheap pair there. About alternatives, it all depends on budget and sound signature preference. I had the same setup you currently have (X2 + boompro + GSX) and I was happy with it, but then I started looking for something "better". This is all 100% subjective, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I'm pleased with the Modhouse Argon MK3 and they have great low end. Their problem is that they are super power hungry and the GSX is not going to bring their full potential (I tried, and they just don't sound good there). I'm also excited about the Verum One (Kickstarter) and Vokyl Erupt (Indiegogo) and they seem easier to drive. Unfortunately you can't just buy these in Amazon and get 2 day delivery... Plus you are trusting reviewers that might have different sound signature tastes.


----------



## headphonesonly

Fleshless said:


> So for the last 4 years and a bit i'm using a Fidelio x2 with a vmoda boompro and that shows on my headphones.
> The headband became loose over time and the earpads are becoming loose on the inside.
> 
> As I am really happy with the headphones i wanted to just buy another pair but the few pairs i can find cost more then when I bought them back in 2014.
> ...


You can find X2 on AliExpress for like $230


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 9, 2019)

Absolute Zero said:


> So among all the different virtual surround devices you've tested which is the one you liked the most (for console gaming) in terms of surround sound?


Sennheiser GSX is my fave virtual surround, easily. But consoles don't really have devices with it.

Going back to Dolby Headphone, I really like the virtual surround though I can see why done people may not be a fan nof the reverb. It doesn't bother me

I think overall in general, SBX is the best choice for most people because it doesn't add much reverb. But I have an easier time pinpointing sounds with the GSX and Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Fleshless

headphonesonly said:


> You can find X2 on AliExpress for like $230



But if i buy another X2 i will have the same problems some years down the road so wouldn´t it be better to get a new pair of Headphones that won´t have this problems or you can at least get replacement parts for them?
I thought about the K712 with an adapter from mini XLR to 3,5mm so i could still use my BoomPro.
Don´t know if the GSX1200 will suffice to power them though.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fleshless said:


> But if i buy another X2 i will have the same problems some years down the road so wouldn´t it be better to get a new pair of Headphones that won´t have this problems or you can at least get replacement parts for them?
> I thought about the K712 with an adapter from mini XLR to 3,5mm so i could still use my BoomPro.
> Don´t know if the GSX1200 will suffice to power them though.



The GSX can power phones like the AKG 7 series and Sennheiser 6 series and it can go loud enough.
BUT:
- you won't have much headroom (reserve) left so you will be playing high up the volume scale of your amp.
- phones like the ones mentioned above sound better with quality amplification. I have my GSX connected to my HDVA600.

The question remains if it is necessary to have high-end amplification for your games. For music I'd say yes but for games I think the GSX does fine.


----------



## mindbomb

For music, I'd actually probably say your fine with the gsx. A byproduct of the loudness wars is that you no longer need a lot of gain for modern music.


----------



## Xlaw (Feb 9, 2019)

Hello,

I'm torn between the Denon D7000, D7200 and Fostex TH900 ( for everything, gaming, movies and music ).I can get both Denons at the same price of 530$, 7000 used and 7200 new, while the TH900 is double that.
 I want the most FUN to listen to while still maintaining excellent resolution and great soundstage.
Is the price difference between the denons and TH900 really justified ?

Any suggestions ?
Forgot to mention that I have the X2HR hooked up to the G6, and while they're fun, I just can't stand the grain they produce anymore.


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 10, 2019)

Hello all I currently have a dt 990 and modmic 5 I was debating on buying a creative g6 for my ps4 pro and PC, astro mixamp pro tr or I was going to buy a sxfi amp and antilion USB sound card for the mic and connect both to the ps4 and PC. Any advise or opinions on either product or any other recommendations

Thanks


----------



## Absolute Zero

Lay. said:


> There are some bad things about MixAmp Pro TR, but ability to pinpoint sound directions is not one of them. Who knows if there are some bad units or if there is a huge variation in our personal ability how we can hear vss.
> 
> This is me playing CoD BO III right after I got MixAmp Pro TR:
> 
> I can locate enemies with it just as good as with G6 and even better than with older MixAmp altough the older MixAmp sounds more natural and organic.




Are you using a custom EQ? If so, which one? Dolby ON?


----------



## Lay.

Absolute Zero said:


> Are you using a custom EQ? If so, which one? Dolby ON?



I did use a custom EQ for my HD598. I made it by my self. Dolby on 100% of the time while I was gaming with MixAmp TR.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Lay. said:


> I did use a custom EQ for my HD598. I made it by my self. Dolby on 100% of the time while I was gaming with MixAmp TR.



Ah that makes sense. When you say Dolby on 100% you mean the volume of the Mixamp turned up to the maximum?


----------



## Lay.

Absolute Zero said:


> Ah that makes sense. When you say Dolby on 100% you mean the volume of the Mixamp turned up to the maximum?



No. I just ment that I used my MixAmp for gaming only and never turned the dolby button (vss) off. It is the feature why I used the MixAmp.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Lay. said:


> No. I just ment that I used my MixAmp for gaming only and never turned the dolby button (vss) off. It is the feature why I used the MixAmp.



I've actually misread your previous post so my question was stupid. I wish there were some custom EQs for the AD700X as well but it seems like all the custom EQs I've tried are tuned for the Astro headphones and don't sound that good with my AD...


----------



## Lay.

Absolute Zero said:


> I've actually misread your previous post so my question was stupid. I wish there were some custom EQs for the AD700X as well but it seems like all the custom EQs I've tried are tuned for the Astro headphones and don't sound that good with my AD...



That is the problem with MixAmp TR, presets and those EQ:s that are shared on Astro forum. They are made for A40's. You can try to find if there is a EQ close to your liking and fine tune it from there.

With older MixAmps and Sound BlasterX G6 the sound is good without any EQ. At least with my Sennheiser headphones.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Lay. said:


> That is the problem with MixAmp TR, presets and those EQ:s that are shared on Astro forum. They are made for A40's. You can try to find if there is a EQ close to your liking and fine tune it from there.
> 
> With older MixAmps and Sound BlasterX G6 the sound is good without any EQ. At least with my Sennheiser headphones.



I know nothing about frequencies and bandwidth with regard to music therefore I have I settle for the custom eqs I find on the astro forum...I'm thinking of selling the TR to purchase either an old mixamp (2013 edition) or a g6...


----------



## Yethal

Despite the flawed test methodology Linus managed to arrive at the same conclusion we've arrived.


----------



## illram

I just skipped to the weird graphs. Did he conclude VSS actually works? Maybe this will stop the endless "stereo is always superior and virtual surround is a gimmick" echo chamber amongst the plebes.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 10, 2019)

illram said:


> I just skipped to the weird graphs. Did he conclude VSS actually works? Maybe this will stop the endless "stereo is always superior and virtual surround is a gimmick" echo chamber amongst the plebes.


He ultimately encourages people to find headphone processing that works well for them, so that is pretty much what the people in this thread are saying.

But I can't parse his results that well. Though, I think people don't really look at the results and just listen to the conclusion.

There's actually a simple test to show the benefits of virtual surround sound. While recording game footage, with something in game that makes noise constantly, rotate clockwise for a good bit. Then stop and rotate counterclockwise for a good bit. Strip the audio from the video, break it into 2 equal sized pieces for each direction, and throw it into an abx test. Without virtual surround sound, since you don't have a good front/back, it should be real difficult to identify which one is counterclockwise, and which one is clockwise. And then with virtual surround sound, you should be able to tell pretty easily.


----------



## Fleshless

Fleshless said:


> So for the last 4 years and a bit i'm using a Fidelio x2 with a vmoda boompro and that shows on my headphones.
> The headband became loose over time and the earpads are becoming loose on the inside.
> 
> As I am really happy with the headphones i wanted to just buy another pair but the few pairs i can find cost more then when I bought them back in 2014.
> ...



After watching a bunch more reviews i think the Vokyl Erupt are what i´m looking for but i will wait until they are out and look for some more reviews.

But from what Zeos said in his review it looks like the next logical step from the Fidelio X1/X2.

In the meantime, to keep myself entertained i ordered some 58X on Massdrop yesterday and i´m looking forward to test them out and if i don´t like them, probably sell them.


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> I just skipped to the weird graphs. Did he conclude VSS actually works? Maybe this will stop the endless "stereo is always superior and virtual surround is a gimmick" echo chamber amongst the plebes.


Yes, and also that it's pointless to buy gaming headsets with vss since the magic is actually in the vss software. He recommends buying just good stereo headphones and applying external vss to them instead of buying a gaming headset with vss baked in. Which is pretty much what this thread was all about for the past six years or so.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Xlaw said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm torn between the Denon D7000, D7200 and Fostex TH900 ( for everything, gaming, movies and music ).I can get both Denons at the same price of 530$, 7000 used and 7200 new, while the TH900 is double that.
> I want the most FUN to listen to while still maintaining excellent resolution and great soundstage.
> ...



The D7200 has the worst soundstage out of all those as it lacks depth. That's unfortunate because otherwise it sounds really good and visceral, without standout peaks like the TH-900. Clean (cleaner and better controlled than the D7K), powerful bass as well. The TH-900's peaks don't matter for gaming.

TH-900 has the best and most precise imaging of all three while maintaining the highest resolve and extension. Bass attack and decay is faster, cleaner, it reacts quicker to dynamic changes than both. 

Get the TH-900 and don't look back.


----------



## AIucardd (Feb 11, 2019)

Ok, I think I figured out what kind of person I am. I bought GSX1000 and very liked surround on them. And I never turned it off. I turned on "crosshair" Esports EQ, set the Reverb on one "+" and left it like that. I playing games with this setup. I listen music with this setup. So, apperantly, I'm trash like that, pity   .
Mine 363d is almost decade old, I wanna replace them. So, I need to be truthful with myself, I just need best soundstage/imaging headphones. I heard from a couple of sources аbout "godly" sennheiser 660s. I heard about sennheiser HD58x. Can't afford 500$ headphones. Can't buy hd58x from my country.
I just need decent sounding headphones (at least like mine 363d), but with as good as possible imaging and soundstage. Can someone recommend something considering things I said above?
1. GSX1000 (150oms limit) surround only;
2. *As good as possible* imaging and soundstage;
3. Decent sounding headphones (at least like mine 363d (same as pc360, as far as I know)).
4. Price range - below 500$ (but, if 660s has as godly imaging as people are saying about them, and none of other headphones can come close to them in that regard... tell me about it, pls)
Hope you will help me, thx


----------



## Yethal

AIucardd said:


> Ok, I think I figured out what kind of person I am. I bought GSX1000 and very liked surround on them. And I never turned it off. I turned on [...]
> 1. GSX1000 (150oms limit) surround only;
> 2. *As good as possible* imaging and soundstage;
> 3. Decent sounding headphones (at least like mine 363d (same as pc360, as far as I know)).
> ...


Sennheiser 6XX series isn't that great for gaming. Imaging in music and imaging in video games are two different things. In music the location of an instrument (or a voice) is decided by the sound engineer during mixing and is fixed in one spot. Moreover unless you're listening to orchestra or big band recorded with overhead microphones the instruments (or voices) are not that far away from the microphone. In games on the other hand the location of sound sources changes both with the source's movement and camera movement, moreover the distance between the camera and the source is also dynamic and needs to be reproduced accurately (imagine hearing footsteps right behind you, turning around and realizing the person you heard was 100 metres away).
Seriously, I own Focal Clears (also well regarded for their imaging) and they absolutely suck for gaming (despite being pretty great music headphones).
You should be able to find Shure SRH1840 for $500 though. Those were amazing for gaming (despite some deficiencies with music).


----------



## AIucardd

Yethal said:


> Shure SRH1840


Damn, pricier than 660s  too much for me.
O, one more question, does ohms matter? For example, I considered Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro, but there is only 32 / 250 and 600 oms. Too much for gsx1000. 

The options I thought about (besides 660s):
1.Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro 32ohm;
2. sennheiser gsp 500;
3. Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X;
4. AKG K702;

which of at least thees would be better for gaming imaging and soundstage for gsx1000 7.1 surround.
or should I search for some 150oms headphones


----------



## Yethal

AIucardd said:


> Damn, pricier than 660s  too much for me.
> O, one more question, does ohms matter? For example, I considered Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro, but there is only 32 / 250 and 600 oms. Too much for gsx1000.
> 
> The options I thought about (besides 660s):
> ...


Yes, the ohms matter.
Go with AD700X they should be just fine.


----------



## AIucardd (Feb 13, 2019)

ok I'm decided.
I'm about to purchase some AKG. I Have two options.
1. AKG k702
2. AKG K712 pro.
Should I pay 150$ more for 712? I do need competitive headphones, put I have a fear of missing out on fun factor of hedphones... I'm using GSX1000 7.1 E-sports  EQ for gaming, so, I think, bass won't be an issue... I heard k712 has more immersive (natural sounding) soundstage... *does it making imaging and judging distance less accurate*? Pls, I need to know, uncertainty is killing me.


----------



## afireinside

Fegefeuer said:


> yes, I tested AC:Odyssey, Origins, Wildlands, Doom and a few others.
> 
> Titanfall shows 7.1 in the menu. It probably uses some APO stuff and tricks the game to output 7.1
> 
> ...



Interesting... I was "using" (so I thought) Dolby Atmos for Headphones for a bit before I picked up a SBX G6 last week. The actual Dolby Access atmos app seemed to indicate that it was working, and it would yell at me if I turned spacial audio off in Windows. 
I had no idea that was supposed to display a "Dolby Atmos for Headphones is now active" or whatever it says down in the task bar like in your photo. So I had to see for myself...
I tried a few games, nothing. Tried the Dolby Access app demos, nothing. 
Switched from my DAC to my SBX G6, and it immediately showed that I was using Atmos. 
Not a clue why it won't work outputting to my Yggy. I wonder if it has something to do with your gen 5 USB input? My DAC still has the gen 3 USB.


----------



## Fegefeuer

It should work with your Gen 3 actually. It works with the Xmos of my other DAC. Sure they are both not the same but both are about equally older than Gen 5. I don't think it matters.

Do you see Dolby Atmos for Headphones active under the sound control panel where you can also choose from Windows Sonic (and soon DTS Ultra)? What does the Dolby Access menu say when you go through the usual steps it illustrates?


----------



## Nemmera

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sennheiser GSX is my fave virtual surround, easily. But consoles don't really have devices with it.
> 
> Going back to Dolby Headphone, I really like the virtual surround though I can see why done people may not be a fan nof the reverb. It doesn't bother me
> 
> I think overall in general, SBX is the best choice for most people because it doesn't add much reverb. But I have an easier time pinpointing sounds with the GSX and Dolby Headphone.



I bought a GSX 1000 and have been using it for quite some time. I absolutely love the virtual surround in everything but games... Could be my choice of games that is the issue (PUBG which has notoriously bad audio) but going back to my ZxR I am able to accurately pinpoint where shots are coming from and enemies movements to a point where it must look like I'm cheating from an observers point of view.

This may be subjective, but the GSX seems to struggle with instances where alot is happening at the same time in 7.1. Quick rotations of the camera ("flicks") make the sound "lag behind" and sometimes play from the wrong direction, and like I say 3-4 people shooting from different angles while a couple of them are running around makes for a really indistinct soundscape.

I also discussed the high noise floor of the GSX1000 when combined with the GSP600 with my local Sennheiser support who (after some internal testing on their own gear) confirmed that it was an issue.

So, subjectively the best Virtual Surround algoritm/solution by a decent margin, but plagued with other issues. Almost like they had a superior software solution but skimped out on the hardware and slathered some "gaming"-badges on it to be able to charge a premium. And this is from a guy who absolutely love Sennheiser products and their excellent customer service otherwise.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sennheiser GSX is my fave virtual surround, easily. But consoles don't really have devices with it.
> 
> Going back to Dolby Headphone, I really like the virtual surround though I can see why done people may not be a fan nof the reverb. It doesn't bother me
> 
> I think overall in general, SBX is the best choice for most people because it doesn't add much reverb. But I have an easier time pinpointing sounds with the GSX and Dolby Headphone.


Hi just curious what Dolby headphone do you use or recommend

Thanks


----------



## Nemmera

stavros.m said:


> Hi just curious what Dolby headphone do you use or recommend
> 
> Thanks


Dolby headphone is a software layer unless i'm totally mistaken, not an actual headphone. 
Some DACs have it integrated, otherwise it's a software solution on your source (PC for instance).


----------



## stavros.m

Nemmera said:


> Dolby headphone is a software layer unless i'm totally mistaken, not an actual headphone.
> Some DACs have it integrated, otherwise it's a software solution on your source (PC for instance).


Thank you I am a complete noob i just got a dt 990 and was curious if I should be using Dolby or stereo


----------



## afireinside

Fegefeuer said:


> It should work with your Gen 3 actually. It works with the Xmos of my other DAC. Sure they are both not the same but both are about equally older than Gen 5. I don't think it matters.
> 
> Do you see Dolby Atmos for Headphones active under the sound control panel where you can also choose from Windows Sonic (and soon DTS Ultra)? What does the Dolby Access menu say when you go through the usual steps it illustrates?



With my audio output device set to my SBX G6, I see "Dolby Atmos for Headphones is in use" below the volume slider like in your screen shot.
With my audio output device set to my Schiit Yggdrasil, I DO NOT see anything under the volume slider.
In both cases, the Dolby Access program claims that I am "set up". 

Listening to the same demo back to back using both devices as output, it's blatantly obvious that Atmos is NOT working with my Schiit DAC. It sounds quite amazing using the SBX G6 (set in line-out direct mode).


----------



## PurpleAngel

stavros.m said:


> Thank you I am a complete noob i just got a dt 990 and was curious if I should be using Dolby or stereo


Guess it depends on what your ears like to hear.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Hey everyone, from a pure surround sound perspective, which device is better for gaming between the g6 and the x7?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Absolute Zero said:


> Hey everyone, from a pure surround sound perspective, which device is better for gaming between the g6 and the x7?


It could be the G6 and X7 do a lot of headphone surround sound processing using the computer's CPU and might be basically using the same software (guessing).
I would say unless you really are in need of the features of the X7, get the G6


----------



## Yethal

PurpleAngel said:


> It could be the G6 and X7 do a lot of headphone surround sound processing using the computer's CPU and might be basically using the same software (guessing).
> I would say unless you really are in need of the features of the X7, get the G6


They don't use CPU for audio processing (aside from the processing within the game engine of course), they both have a deciated hardware chip for that


----------



## Absolute Zero

So what's the verdict? I can't seem to find any comparison between the g6 and the x7 from a surround sound viewpoint.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Yethal said:


> They don't use CPU for audio processing (aside from the processing within the game engine of course), they both have a deciated hardware chip for that


If you were Creative Labs, would you not want to switch over as much audio processing functions to the main CPU, this way you could use a small and cheaper DSP chip, on the sound card?


----------



## illram

Absolute Zero said:


> Hey everyone, from a pure surround sound perspective, which device is better for gaming between the g6 and the x7?


G6 has 7.1 vs X7 5.1. I posted a comparison in either this thread or the G6 thread a while back. Surround wise they are hard to differentiate in quality, 7.1 doesn't make a huge difference honestly, but audio quality and features on the X7 are better. But it's a minor difference, honestly it's hard to notice. For the price if you don't need the X7's features the G6 is probably fine.


----------



## Yethal

PurpleAngel said:


> If you were Creative Labs, would you not want to switch over as much audio processing functions to the main CPU, this way you could use a small and cheaper DSP chip, on the sound card?


I wouldn't because then a powered on PC would need to be connected to the X7 at all times and it would need to run a dedicated driver. Considering the fact that DSP on the X7 runs exactly the same (minus the Control Panel) on Linux and even with a PC disconnected I find the CPU processing theory unlikely.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Yethal said:


> I wouldn't because then a powered on PC would need to be connected to the X7 at all times and it would need to run a dedicated driver. Considering the fact that DSP on the X7 runs exactly the same (minus the Control Panel) on Linux and even with a PC disconnected I find the CPU processing theory unlikely.


So it would not be possible to design software do do a lot of audio processing, do by the CPU, using Linux?

How it is, that Creative Labs sells their audio processing software (SBX Headphone surround sound), for $30, to run on Windows PCs, but the PC does not contain any of Creative's DSP chips?
Try to figure that out?


----------



## Yethal

PurpleAngel said:


> So it would not be possible to design software do do a lot of audio processing, do by the CPU, using Linux?
> 
> How it is, that Creative Labs sells their audio processing software (SBX Headphone surround sound), for $30, to run on Windows PCs, but the PC does not contain any of Creative's DSP chips?
> Try to figure that out?


It is, but Creative hasn't done that. If they did there would be
a) a FAQ on their website explaining how to compile/load the driver
b) a kernel module listed by the lsmod command on my system
c) Driver reported for X7 would not be the stock usb audio driver

The SBX Headphone surround software does what the DSP hardware chip within the X7 and G5/G6 does. Processes surround sound into stereo using SBX algorithm. But that doesn't mean the processing that's happening within the X7 is done in software.


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## Clean6eR (Feb 18, 2019)

If you plug optical into g6 or x7 and use them on a ps4 you can pipe them dolby, they decode this then apply the echo surround thingy and pipe it out all without any pc in sight! Pretty solid evidence it does it in hardware?

Sorry just saw yethal already explained this.


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## Fegefeuer (Feb 18, 2019)

I've come by a used HE-4 in very good condition and that thing is actually really really good. I love the classic Hifiman line much more than the new, except for the HE-1000SE (unfortunately too expensive). Found the previous ones including the HEX V2 too soft.

The HE-4 is very different from the HE-500 and different enough from the HE-400. It's quite fast, clean, punchy, impressive width in the soundstage with very good separation, however depth (layering) is not a very strong point unfortunately. HE-400 has phatter weightier bass while as clean but the mids are less ideal, more subdued on the top, generally not as natural as I hoped  (HE-500 easily bests both though, the HE-400 comes last) and the highs even more aggressive. HE-500's bass is less clean than both but it's overall a more cohorent and better balanced headphone.

HE-4's highs are north of neutral and really lively. Not Pro 900 crazy (which some people of course rightfully like) but still plentyful. 

I need to find a way to tame those highs a bit because they definitely can be too much with various games. Horizon Zero Dawn for instance has a very rich (and really well made) sound environment and the crushing of ice, bursting of metal and the trails of shattering rocks, bolts and electricity are too much. BlasterX G6 -> Gungnir MB

Power wise the HE-4 is quite the hungry beast and as with most classics they can be cranked very high without them falling apart.


----------



## iunewind

Absolute Zero said:


> So what's the verdict? I can't seem to find any comparison between the g6 and the x7 from a surround sound viewpoint.



Im have x7 and AE5 (its some kind of "internal version of G6") 
Im dont see any difference by sound quality (but many audiofils say AE5 much better  )
X7 its a much more functional device. Its have multichannel outputs and many others thing, als its have some functional and more accurate control panel. Control panel of G6/AE-5 its a terrible designed and cutted functionality. 
In points of virtual 3d - at now (after windows vista) all games use internal HRTF by its own sound engine, so im prefer use just stereo, and imho its no point to use HRTF by sound card now - in theory internal game result must be better because game engine work with source sound and create most accurate mix. When used sound card HRTF, its double conversing: first one game make 5.1 sound for speakers, after it sound card make downmix from . 5,1 to virtual 3d in headphones.


----------



## Yethal

iunewind said:


> Im have x7 and AE5 (its some kind of "internal version of G6")
> Im dont see any difference by sound quality (but many audiofils say AE5 much better  )
> X7 its a much more functional device. Its have multichannel outputs and many others thing, als its have some functional and more accurate control panel. Control panel of G6/AE-5 its a terrible designed and cutted functionality.
> In points of virtual 3d - at now (after windows vista) all games use internal HRTF by its own sound engine, so im prefer use just stereo, and imho its no point to use HRTF by sound card now - in theory internal game result must be better because game engine work with source sound and create most accurate mix. When used sound card HRTF, its double conversing: first one game make 5.1 sound for speakers, after it sound card make downmix from . 5,1 to virtual 3d in headphones.


It would be really nice of the games worked the way you just described. Entire headphone gaming would be much simpler. Unfortunately unless a game is specifically coded to use an HRTF algorithm (like PC version of Overwatch) it's going to use stock fmod pipeline(audio middleware used by every major game engine on the planet) and render a stereo mix that's basically a widened stereo mix.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Yethal said:


> It is, but Creative hasn't done that. If they did there would be
> a) a FAQ on their website explaining how to compile/load the driver
> b) a kernel module listed by the lsmod command on my system
> c) Driver reported for X7 would not be the stock usb audio driver
> The SBX Headphone surround software does what the DSP hardware chip within the X7 and G5/G6 does. Processes surround sound into stereo using SBX algorithm. But that doesn't mean the processing that's happening within the X7 is done in software.


Here is Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 ($30) that provides SBX Headphone surround sound, for anyone to buy and install on their Windows PC, and the PC will not contain none of Creative's DSP chips.
http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3
So how does that Creative software provide SBX Headphone, without the use of any of Creative's DSP chips, that you say is need for SBX Headphone?
Please enlighten my tiny brain.


----------



## Yethal

PurpleAngel said:


> Here is Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 ($30) that provides SBX Headphone surround sound, for anyone to buy and install on their Windows PC, and the PC will not contain none of Creative's DSP chips.
> http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3
> So how does that Creative software provide SBX Headphone, without the use of any of Creative's DSP chips, that you say is need for SBX Headphone?
> Please enlighten my tiny brain.


In software, as I said previously.
SBX headphone suite does in software what G5, G6 and X7 do in hardware using a dedicated DSP chip.


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## mindbomb (Feb 18, 2019)

iunewind said:


> Im have x7 and AE5 (its some kind of "internal version of G6")
> Im dont see any difference by sound quality (but many audiofils say AE5 much better  )
> X7 its a much more functional device. Its have multichannel outputs and many others thing, als its have some functional and more accurate control panel. Control panel of G6/AE-5 its a terrible designed and cutted functionality.
> In points of virtual 3d - at now (after windows vista) all games use internal HRTF by its own sound engine, so im prefer use just stereo, and imho its no point to use HRTF by sound card now - in theory internal game result must be better because game engine work with source sound and create most accurate mix. When used sound card HRTF, its double conversing: first one game make 5.1 sound for speakers, after it sound card make downmix from . 5,1 to virtual 3d in headphones.



Most games will not add in hrtf for headphone users. One major obstacle is that they don't even have a mechanism to know if the end user is using headphones, so typically the games that offer it, like Overwatch and BF5, still make users manually opt in. Some of the most popular games right now, like Apex Legends, Fortnite, Metro Exodus, Call of Duty Black Ops 4, and GTA 5, don't use hrtf. However, all those games support surround sound audio, so they would benefit from the use of processing to convert that audio to virtual surround sound for headphones.

The HRTFs are applied binaurally, meaning that both ears are required for the intended effect. A quick and easy test to see if there are HRTFs being used is to lift one ear cup off of your head, and see if sounds that are in front of you suddenly lose depth.


----------



## iunewind

Yethal said:


> It would be really nice of the games worked the way you just described. Entire headphone gaming would be much simpler. Unfortunately unless a game is specifically coded to use an HRTF algorithm (like PC version of Overwatch) it's going to use stock fmod pipeline(audio middleware used by every major game engine on the planet) and render a stereo mix that's basically a widened stereo mix.


Im clearly hear front/back sounds in headphones when play typical 3D game (without special selection of headphones in in-game settings). Game make HRTF by it self, but, of course, if we have options to make 5.1 game output and downmix it on sound card (or software, and today its, imho, always software but different algorithms depended by sound card vendor), its always be debate about what better. 
 Im read different opinions. Some people think in-game HRTF is  better. Some people think opposite - like Creative algorithms work best. Some other people think double conversion its bad for sound,  you lose clarity and make some smeared sound when downmix already downmixed 5/7 channel again to 2 channels. 
In game sound engine work with dozens of sounds (samples) and create from it downmix to 5 channels with different effect already applied to each sample - for emulating  fading, moving, echo, reverb of each sound etc. Its no clear answer - will it better if external algorithm downmixed it again or make its stereo work better. 
Another thing: when you play Direct mode  (plane stereo so it use in game HRTF) on sound card like AE-5, G6, X7 or any external DAC  you have maximum sound quality can be achieved on that sound card. If you select any other mode, signal will be reworked and slightly degraded. Im never hear difference but some peoples say its really better to hear direct modes


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 19, 2019)

I've yet to hear any in game HTRF to sound anywhere near as convincing as dedicated virtual surround dsps like SBX, DH, etc.

Like for example, Resident Evil 2 Remake has a binaural mix option. It sounds better than stereo for sure, but it still does not place rear audio cues behind your ears. It does differentiate front/rear sounds much better than stereo, but it's no replacement to what we're used to here. My biggest disappointment with any HTRF is when rear sounds are still coming from in front, which some binaural tracks still do. What's the point in binaural if they can't convince the ears of things around you, and at best can only slightly make the soundfield less linear? yes, you can tell that the sound is a rear cue, but within the headspace, it's still in front of your eyes. That's a failure to me.

No one can ever convince me that something like that is better than Dolby Headphone, Creative SBX, Sennheiser GSX where there is a definite sound coming from behind you.



Fegefeuer said:


> I've come by a used HE-4 in very good condition and that thing is actually really really good. I love the classic Hifiman line much more than the new, except for the HE-1000SE (unfortunately too expensive). Found the previous ones including the HEX V2 too soft.
> 
> The HE-4 is very different from the HE-500 and different enough from the HE-400. It's quite fast, clean, punchy, impressive width in the soundstage with very good separation, however depth (layering) is not a very strong point unfortunately. HE-400 has phatter weightier bass while as clean but the mids are less ideal, more subdued on the top, generally not as natural as I hoped  (HE-500 easily bests both though, the HE-400 comes last) and the highs even more aggressive. HE-500's bass is less clean than both but it's overall a more cohorent and better balanced headphone.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you like the HE-4. A massive, severely underrated headphone.

I had it at the time I had the D7000, and it gave me a very different and eqaully as important sound to me. It sounded high end, without the high end price, but man, that thing needs a very powerful amp. I definitely put it up there among my top 5 I'd say.

I think the only shortcoming of the HE-4's sound was the grainy high end, but man it sounded airy and quick otherwise.


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## mindbomb (Feb 19, 2019)

iunewind said:


> Im clearly hear front/back sounds in headphones when play typical 3D game (without special selection of headphones in in-game settings). Game make HRTF by it self, but, of course, if we have options to make 5.1 game output and downmix it on sound card (or software, and today its, imho, always software but different algorithms depended by sound card vendor), its always be debate about what better.
> Im read different opinions. Some people think in-game HRTF is  better. Some people think opposite - like Creative algorithms work best. Some other people think double conversion its bad for sound,  you lose clarity and make some smeared sound when downmix already downmixed 5/7 channel again to 2 channels.
> In game sound engine work with dozens of sounds (samples) and create from it downmix to 5 channels with different effect already applied to each sample - for emulating  fading, moving, echo, reverb of each sound etc. Its no clear answer - will it better if external algorithm downmixed it again or make its stereo work better.
> Another thing: when you play Direct mode  (plane stereo so it use in game HRTF) on sound card like AE-5, G6, X7 or any external DAC  you have maximum sound quality can be achieved on that sound card. If you select any other mode, signal will be reworked and slightly degraded. Im never hear difference but some peoples say its really better to hear direct modes



Let me be very clear here: many games don't have hrtf audio. For example: Apex Legends, Fortnite, Metro Exodus, Call of Duty Black Ops 4, and GTA 5 don't have hrtf. The way to get hrtf audio in these cases is through the external algorithm.

When you have stereo without an hrtf, you only have 2 native directions, left and right. A consequence of this is that front and back are not handled well and harder to distinguish.

With a 7.1 surround sound format, front and back sounds are in discrete channels. This allows an algorithm to apply different HRTFs to each to maintain the perception of those directions on headphones. Thus the stereo problem is addressed.


----------



## iunewind

mindbomb said:


> Let me be very clear here: many games don't have hrtf audio. For example: Apex Legends, Fortnite, Metro Exodus, Call of Duty Black Ops 4, and GTA 5 don't have hrtf. The way to get hrtf audio in these cases is through the external algorithm.
> 
> When you have stereo without an hrtf, you only have 2 native directions, left and right. A consequence of this is that front and back are not handled well and harder to distinguish.
> 
> With a 7.1 surround sound format, front and back sounds are in discrete channels. This allows an algorithm to apply different HRTFs to each to maintain the perception of those directions on headphones. Thus the stereo problem is addressed.



Ok, when talking about sound im belive only in blind test, so im make my own now 
Metro Exodus,  Im found campfire and make random mouse move with eyes shut, after it im try to pointing campfire by ears and check it with eyes open. 
On both AE-5 and x7, im try both mode - stereo direct sound and "5.1 in system -> stereo downmix to headphones on soundcard"  each with selected and deselected "Spatial Audio (dolby athmos)" in game..  and im fail. In each mode its happening errors of front/back campfire pointing time by time.  Im hear it like front of my and when im check  by eyes its suddenly was back and vise versa, Most of pointing was correct but not every - some time im wrong (about 20% of tries). Also any "side" positioning pretty rough. So i can say by me experience  - headphones in any mode - direct stereo or 5.1-to-stereo conversion work not very good for me. 
Im chek it twice on JVC SZ2000 and Bayer 990pro - no difference. "Dolby athmos" in game setup also not affected to my pointing accuracy 

After it im try on my quadro speaker setup and of curse, its not any errors at all (but side positioning still rough). Its not correct comparison of curse, because my speaker setup not  equal (front and back pair it different speakers) and not very accurate tuned but any way its most cool 3D sound for my with most cool atmosphere, comfort and positioning. 

little tip: Creative AE-5  CAN NOT play games with quadro system, because creative drivers degraded for AE-5/G6 geeration and not have ability to select your speakers setup - AE-5 need central speaker for play games in 5.1 modes or you lose all dialogs. (G6 its stereo sound card of curse). 
On X7 you can setup your speaker system by cheking/uncheking existing speakers in control panel and not problem play with quadro (without central channel) as any previous Sound Blaster since 20years old  SB Live 5.1. On new generation Creative lost this feature. 
(sorry my English please, hope you understand something  )


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm glad you like the HE-4. A massive, severely underrated headphone.
> 
> I had it at the time I had the D7000, and it gave me a very different and eqaully as important sound to me. It sounded high end, without the high end price, but man, that thing needs a very powerful amp. I definitely put it up there among my top 5 I'd say.
> 
> I think the only shortcoming of the HE-4's sound was the grainy high end, but man it sounded airy and quick otherwise.



I remember it from your review back then.

Yeah, it easily requires more power than all my other headphones but even then my amp has more than enough for it and it's already at -14db pre-gain (lowest, which I need for the other headphones) and not much more than 2 o'clock at most. 
I guess back then many amps were simply not enough in clean power/drive and since Hifman brought a lot of other headphones the HE-4 became kinda left out over time. HE-6 and HE-500 have a cult status until today though (rightfully so). 

I'll try to find a way to subdue the highs slightly, everything else is mostly really great. Trying to create a bit more depth to the soundstage with pad rolling.
I don't even mind the grain like K701, X2 and Co. 

The seller didn't even use it more than 150 hours and the condition is excellent (minor spot at the headband).


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## mindbomb (Feb 20, 2019)

iunewind said:


> Ok, when talking about sound im belive only in blind test, so im make my own now
> Metro Exodus,  Im found campfire and make random mouse move with eyes shut, after it im try to pointing campfire by ears and check it with eyes open.
> On both AE-5 and x7, im try both mode - stereo direct sound and "5.1 in system -> stereo downmix to headphones on soundcard"  each with selected and deselected "Spatial Audio (dolby athmos)" in game..  and im fail. In each mode its happening errors of front/back campfire pointing time by time.  Im hear it like front of my and when im check  by eyes its suddenly was back and vise versa, Most of pointing was correct but not every - some time im wrong (about 20% of tries). Also any "side" positioning pretty rough. So i can say by me experience  - headphones in any mode - direct stereo or 5.1-to-stereo conversion work not very good for me.
> Im chek it twice on JVC SZ2000 and Bayer 990pro - no difference. "Dolby athmos" in game setup also not affected to my pointing accuracy



I think for Creative, you have to set Windows to 5.1 speaker configuration, then in the Creative driver, set speakers/headphone to virtual 7.1 headphones, then also enable sbx surround in the creative driver.

Dolby atmos in this case is only for people who have bought the Dolby app for windows 10. The app then allows "dolby atmos for headphones".


----------



## iunewind

mindbomb said:


> I think for Creative, you have to set Windows to 5.1 speaker configuration, then in the Creative driver, set speakers/headphone to virtual 7.1 headphones, then also enable sbx surround in the creative driver..


Yes, this is how i set up. And im not hear big difference in terms of better positioning in any mode. Some time im  miss with in-game stereo mix to headphones and same rate of errors was with in-game 5.1 converted to headphones on sound card. Also im not hear difference with X7 and AE-5. Probably G6 will work same because its very similar card, just external version of AE-5. 
And im make sure one more time - only blind test result its something worth when talking about sound.


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## mindbomb (Feb 20, 2019)

iunewind said:


> Yes, this is how i set up. And im not hear big difference in terms of better positioning in any mode. Some time im  miss with in-game stereo mix to headphones and same rate of errors was with in-game 5.1 converted to headphones on sound card. Also im not hear difference with X7 and AE-5. Probably G6 will work same because its very similar card, just external version of AE-5.
> And im make sure one more time - only blind test result its something worth when talking about sound.



Well, there is a test I think would be interesting. While recording just the audio, look at the campfire and then slowly turn clockwise 360 degrees. Then make a new recording, 180 degrees away from the the campfire (so it is behind you at first) and then turn 360 slowly counterclockwise. Compare how different the 2 recordings sound, you can use an abx tester to make it blind, and see if you can tell which one started in front and which one started behind. Then you can do the same experiment with the sound card algorithm.

Then you can put the 4 audio only recordings on youtube with no indication on which file is which,  and then have the public participate, and see how well they can which one started in front, and which one started behind.

If anyone else has any comments or wants to do this experiment, I welcome it.


----------



## mindbomb

So, I actually quickly put together the experiment I was describing: Two videos were created. One in which the audio starts out in front, things are rotated 360 degrees, and one where things start behind, and there is rotation in the opposite direction. Can you tell which is which?

Here is the set of 2 videos with stereo audio 



And here is the set of 2 videos with dolby headphone dh2


----------



## KR1SeS

halcyon said:


> RE: Comparing different 3D sound virtualization engines (Dolby Atmos, DTS Headphone X, Creative CMSS 3D, Creative SBX Pro Studio, Sennheiser GSX, Razer Surround, Creative SXFI) I stumbled onto this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have the SHP9500s and tired of using onboard audio with my PC. I was torn between GSX 1000 and Sound BlasterX G6, but also the Mayflower Arc which has no VSS. 

I have a question, can I just run HeSuVi and have identical VSS as the GSX 1000 or the G6 running on the Mayflower Arc? This would make my decision so much easier!


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## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 21, 2019)

It should also be noted than when testing things such as virtual surround vs stereo, games MAY require a restart. For example, Destiny 2 throws away the 5.1/7.1 if you ever change it to stereo, so to get proper virtual surround, you have to enable 5.1/7.1 and THEN restart the game. Don't switch games on the fly unless you're doing stereo vs virtual surround through external hardware and not windows. For example, the G6 and X7 will cycle the windows audio plug ins which may break audio in the games in which they won't do 5.1/7.1 unless you relaunch a game.

If you don't restart, all you may be doing is upmising stereo to virtual surround, which is obviously incorrect.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Damn, if you think about it. There is only one thing worse than DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING. IT'S UPMIXED STEREO GAMING.


----------



## ciukacz

KR1SeS said:


> can I just run HeSuVi and have identical VSS as the GSX 1000 or the G6 running on the Mayflower Arc?



mayflower is probably visible in windows just as a stereo device - so that would mean NO.
what i can tell you is that i am running g6 + hesuvi gsx and it sounds good but dont know if identical to hardware GSX 1000.


----------



## mindbomb

So any comments on the experiment here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...ana-trio-added.534479/page-2801#post-14792417 

I can solve the dolby headphone set (tell which one starts from the front, and which one starts from behind). But I don't know how much of this is because I use dolby headphone dh2 regularly anyway, so I already have much experience with the head and environment model being used. The stereo set, for me, appears unsolvable, but I don't know, maybe someone who exclusively plays in stereo can do better.


----------



## KR1SeS

ciukacz said:


> mayflower is probably visible in windows just as a stereo device - so that would mean NO.
> what i can tell you is that i am running g6 + hesuvi gsx and it sounds good but dont know if identical to hardware GSX 1000.


I'm confused about this... I thought with HeSuVi you needed to have stereo hardware (or a G6 in stereo mode for example) as you don't want duplicate VSS processing. I haven't used the software yet so maybe someone else can chime in, but I assumed it would emulate a 7.1 output to Windows to allow the game to output 7.1, then it would apply the VSS algorithm into binaural stereo and output to your stereo DAC (external or onboard).

This is why I assumed I could have VSS with the Mayflower Arc.


----------



## ciukacz

KR1SeS said:


> I'm confused about this... I thought with HeSuVi you needed to have stereo hardware (or a G6 in stereo mode for example) as you don't want duplicate VSS processing. I haven't used the software yet so maybe someone else can chime in, but I assumed it would emulate a 7.1 output to Windows to allow the game to output 7.1, then it would apply the VSS algorithm into binaural stereo and output to your stereo DAC (external or onboard).
> 
> This is why I assumed I could have VSS with the Mayflower Arc.



but you still need the game to output 5.1/7/1 which most of the time they wont unless you set your audio device in windows to 5.1/7.1.
if you cant set your dac to 5.1/7.1 you will need a workaround like that:

https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/Help/#voicemeeter-workaround-for-surround-sound

but idk about latency then


----------



## KR1SeS

ciukacz said:


> but you still need the game to output 5.1/7/1 which most of the time they wont unless you set your audio device in windows to 5.1/7.1.
> if you cant set your dac to 5.1/7.1 you will need a workaround like that:
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/Help/#voicemeeter-workaround-for-surround-sound
> ...


Sorry that doesn't make sense. Then you would be processing VSS twice which I'd think is a bad idea.

I think you need Equalizer APO and emulate the 7.1 to Windows so your game can output 7.1 for HeSuVi to handle:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/

Can anyone else chime in? I don't believe HeSuVi was intended for use with a subsequent 7.1 DSP.


----------



## ciukacz

KR1SeS said:


> Sorry that doesn't make sense. Then you would be processing VSS twice which I'd think is a bad idea.
> 
> I think you need Equalizer APO and emulate the 7.1 to Windows so your game can output 7.1 for HeSuVi to handle



before the 7.1 signal reaches g6 it is already processed by hesuvi.
then g6 can only modify front left and front right channels, but i even doubt it will do anything since all other channels will be silence after hesuvi.
i compared between g6 + hesuvi gsx and alc1220 + hesuvi gsx, i can hear no difference.
also when using g6 + hesuvi gsx the rear and side channel separation is much better then g6's builtin sbx vss so that kinda confirms it.


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## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2019)

KR1SeS said:


> Sorry that doesn't make sense. Then you would be processing VSS twice which I'd think is a bad idea.
> 
> I think you need Equalizer APO and emulate the 7.1 to Windows so your game can output 7.1 for HeSuVi to handle:
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/equalizerapo/
> ...



It has more to do with the game. For a game to output 7.1, it has to see you are using a 7.1 dac. You can't configure a lot of audiophile dacs to be 7.1 in windows. So you have to use voicemeeter to create a fake 7.1 device. This tricks the game into outputting 7.1.

After that, equalizer apo and hesuvi can convert the 7.1 to binaural audio.

With sound cards and integrated audio, you often can just directly set them to 7.1, and can skip the voicemeeter step.


----------



## KR1SeS

mindbomb said:


> It has more to do with the game. For a game to output 7.1, it has to see you are using a 7.1 dac. You can't configure a lot of audiophile dacs to be 7.1 in windows. So you have to use voicemeeter to create a fake 7.1 device.


So if you set the GSX 1000 or the G6 to 7.1, game outputs 7.1, HeSuVi runs VSS algorithm, output to said DAC/Amp, another VSS is applied then output to your stereo cans? I'm definitely not going that route. I don't even see the point, probably because I'm a newb.

I'm pretty sure VBCable will emulate 7.1 to Windows when you have a stereo DAC. I'm pretty sure software like NX Waves and Atmos for Headphones don't require a 7.1 DAC.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2019)

KR1SeS said:


> So if you set the GSX 1000 or the G6 to 7.1, game outputs 7.1, HeSuVi runs VSS algorithm, output to said DAC/Amp, another VSS is applied then output to your stereo cans? I'm definitely not going that route. I don't even see the point, probably because I'm a newb.
> 
> I'm pretty sure VBCable will emulate 7.1 to Windows when you have a stereo DAC. I'm pretty sure software like NX Waves and Atmos for Headphones don't require a 7.1 DAC.



If you are using hesuvi, you would turn off VSS on the device obviously. Or if you are using VSS on the device, you wouldn't use hesuvi. The purpose of hesuvi is to get virtual surround sound when you otherwise won't have any.

You can use vbcable also, sure. I don't know how dolby access works, apparently it can provide 7.1 virtual surround sound without a 7.1 dac with recent windows updates. I'm pretty sure waves nx would require a 7.1 dac or explicit 7.1 format support in the application to get the benefits of virtual surround sound.


----------



## headphonesonly

This new G6 update creative is about to drop looks awesome.


https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...ta_software_firmware/?st=JSGDAVAF&sh=54a58dd2


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> If you are using hesuvi, you would turn off VSS on the device obviously. Or if you are using VSS on the device, you wouldn't use hesuvi.



yes, of course, ideally you would want to do that to be absolutely sure they dont mix.
but, as it is now, you can't do that with g6 because it doesn't have the ability to disable vss on the front hp output.
you can however verify that when hesuvi is enabled sound cards SEND ONLY SILENCE through their c/sub, rear and side outputs (card/mobo physical outputs).
essentialy hesuvi applies vss to 7.1 game output and then encapsulates hrtfed stereo signal in 5.1/7.1 format and sends that to the output device.
and then even hardware vss like g6 can't do anything (and can't brake anything) because it doesn't have the data to work with.

i asked /u/Creative_Ryan for the option to disable their vss, in general i would say that they seem to be open to suggestions, maybe they will provide it down the road if enough people ask:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...er_g6_discussion_thread_introduction/egwi0w9/


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> yes, of course, ideally you would want to do that to be absolutely sure they dont mix.
> but, as it is now, you can't do that with g6 because it doesn't have the ability to disable vss on the front hp output.



No, sbx surround can always be toggled on or off... right?


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> No, sbx surround can always be toggled on or off... right?



no, that just adjusts the amount of reverb. you cant turn off the vss currently.


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> no, that just adjusts the amount of reverb. you cant turn off the vss currently.



There are many people who own creative gear who can chime in (I don't have one), but I'm pretty sure sbx surround is creative's vss technology. In this context, vss being the use of hrtf to maintain the spatial information in a surround sound mix.


----------



## headphonesonly

ciukacz said:


> no, that just adjusts the amount of reverb. you cant turn off the vss currently.


On the g6, normal reverb is off. You can test this by hooking up a dac amp to the g6 and toggle the spdif direct out setting.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> There are many people who own creative gear who can chime in (I don't have one), but I'm pretty sure sbx surround is creative's vss technology. In this context, vss being the use of hrtf to maintain the spatial information in a surround sound mix.



look man, i also owned different creative cards for the last 20 years or so, like a lot of people here.
i'm telling you how it works specifically with g6, with it's current driver and firmware (on today's beta now).
its stupidly easy to turn off sbx surround but leave 7.1 and do windows mmsys.cpl test.
without sbx surround it sound less spacious but there are still directional cues.
what is also unfortunate is that they are worse than x-fi cmss 3d regardless of the settings i use with g6.
fortunately g6 + hesuvi gsx is good so i think the card will stay with me.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> look man, i also owned different creative cards for the last 20 years or so, like a lot of people here.
> i'm telling you how it works specifically with g6, with it's current driver and firmware (on today's beta now).
> its stupidly easy to turn off sbx surround but leave 7.1 and do windows mmsys.cpl test.
> without sbx surround it sound less spacious but there are still directional cues.
> ...



Okay, if this is true and you can't turn off virtual surround sound with your settings, then you shouldn't be using hesuvi with it. Direct mode has no virtual surround sound right? Because maybe you can use direct mode and voicemeeter then.

But you said that you can't hear the difference between the g6 and the alc1220, so it sounds like there isn't virtual surround sound when sbx is off.


----------



## ciukacz (Feb 22, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> Okay, if this is true and you can't turn off virtual surround sound with your settings, then you shouldn't be using hesuvi with it.
> 
> Direct mode has no virtual surround sound right? Because maybe you can use direct mode and voicemeeter then.



if i disable hesuvi, sbx and use direct mode (7.1) it still has vss.
i believe i gave you good explanation why this doesnt have to be a problem.
i also compared with my onboard soundcard output and i hear no loss in quality and positional accuracy.

edit: on my cans (hd58x) especially the loss in positional accuracy would be noticeable.


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> i believe i gave you good explanation why this doesnt have to be a problem.
> i also compared with my onboard soundcard output and i hear no loss in quality and positional accuracy.



The explanation you gave made no sense. If hesuvi is processing the 7.1 > 2 channel with hrtf, and then those 2 channels are being processed by vss on the g6, then the g6 will mistake those 2 channels for front channels, and be adding front hrtf on top of audio that already has hrtf in it.


----------



## ciukacz (Feb 22, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> But you said that you can't hear the difference between the g6 and the alc1220, so it sounds like there isn't virtual surround sound when sbx is off.



a good test for this would be to play a 7.1 audio test file with channel designations.
if you disable mixing in the player/decoder with vss off would mean other channels aside FL and FR would be muted.
i am not able to achieve this with the g6's front hp output.

edit: and also not with the line out, even with the option "apply headphone virtualization to line/optical out" disabled in direct and spdif-out direct modes


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> a good test for this would be to play a 7.1 audio test file with channel designations.
> if you disable mixing in the player/decoder with vss off would mean other channels aside FL and FR would be muted.
> i am not able to achieve this with the g6's front hp output.



But the reason you can hear all the channels might just be because of a regular stereo downmix. A better test is to record the processed audio, upload it to youtube, and see if anyone here recognizes it as being hrtf audio.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> But the reason you can hear all the channels might just be because of a regular stereo downmix. A better test is to record the processed audio, upload it to youtube, and see if anyone here recognizes it as being hrtf audio.



it's not the downmix, i specifically said i disabled that and i made sure by checking on another output device where other channels were muted as expected.
i will check tomorrow if i have a cable to record this.


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> it's not the downmix, i specifically said i disabled that and i made sure by checking on another output device where other channels were muted as expected.
> i will check tomorrow if i have a cable to record this.



I'm saying it could be just a regular stereo downmix being done by the creative g6. Did you notice if there was a difference spatially between when the software downmix was disabled and when it was enabled? Remember to volume match it also if there is a difference.


----------



## ciukacz

yes, lav audio decoder mixing disabled sounds different spatially then with it enabled (sbx surround off in both cases).
but if we follow your logic: if g6 would be performing a simple stereo downmix on a hesuvi hrtfed signal it would also be destroying the hrtf, right?
the order is important in these operations.


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> yes, lav audio decoder mixing disabled sounds different spatially then with it enabled (sbx surround off in both cases).
> but if we follow your logic: if g6 would be performing a simple stereo downmix on a hesuvi hrtfed signal it would also be destroying the hrtf, right?
> the order is important in these operations.



If the g6 performs a simple stereo downmix on hesuvi hrtf signal, the hrtf is preserved, because doing a stereo downmix is just summation, and the other channels are empty.

The contradiction is that you are saying the g6 has vss that is affecting spatial quality, yet not interfering with hesuvi. I don't see how this is possible.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> If the g6 performs a simple stereo downmix on hesuvi hrtf signal, the hrtf is preserved, because doing a stereo downmix is just summation, and the other channels are empty.
> 
> The contradiction is that you are saying the g6 has vss that is affecting spatial quality, yet not interfering with hesuvi. I don't see how this is possible.



of course agreed, a downmix would be preferable to adding another hrtf.
but there are different downmix algorithms and we can't know which one it is using, or if it is doing something fancier (and perhaps more destructive to hesuvi vss).
maybe it would be good idea to ask /u/Creative_Ryan on reddit? maybe he can ask the devs and get a straight answer.

but, ultimately, i believe the proof is in the pudding.
i have been using g6 (sbx off) with hesuvi gsx and it sounds really good.
can't find the cable, maybe i'll find one in the nearby store today.


----------



## Yethal

ciukacz said:


> i asked /u/Creative_Ryan for the option to disable their vss, in general i would say that they seem to be open to suggestions, maybe they will provide it down the road if enough people ask:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...er_g6_discussion_thread_introduction/egwi0w9/



If that's the same guy that used to be Creative rep on Head-Fi and ignored this thread for the past two years then please say hi from us.


----------



## Lay. (Feb 23, 2019)

The new G6 beta firmware/software is looking promising. Much more control with the settings.
These are two of the new features that I like a lot.

- Improve Surround, SmartVol, Dialog+ effects (value-based settings)
- Controls for Noise Reduction, Acoustic Echo Cancellation and SmartVol for microphone input

I'm now playing on PS4 with Surround set to 80% and mic noise reduction around 1/4.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/atkay3/g6_beta_software_firmware/


----------



## Clean6eR

Lay. said:


> The new G6 beta firmware/software is looking promising. Much more control with the settings.
> These are two of the new features that I like a lot.
> 
> - Improve Surround, SmartVol, Dialog+ effects (value-based settings)
> ...


hi,

is there a simple link to dl them from, i have pm'd that creative guy but guessing he wont respond till Monday earliest, it would be cool to test it over this weekend


----------



## Lay.

Clean6eR said:


> hi,
> 
> is there a simple link to dl them from, i have pm'd that creative guy but guessing he wont respond till Monday earliest, it would be cool to test it over this weekend



Hi Clean6eR,

I would truly like to help you and share the files but since it is not a public beta and this is a nice step from Creative to get a feedback from the community, I don't want to ruin anything by sharing the files. 

I hope you understand.


----------



## Clean6eR

Lay. said:


> Hi Clean6eR,
> 
> I would truly like to help you and share the files but since it is not a public beta and this is a nice step from Creative to get a feedback from the community, I don't want to ruin anything by sharing the files.
> 
> I hope you understand.


ei se mitään, kiitos kuitenkin


----------



## ciukacz (Feb 23, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> If the g6 performs a simple stereo downmix on hesuvi hrtf signal, the hrtf is preserved, because doing a stereo downmix is just summation, and the other channels are empty.
> 
> The contradiction is that you are saying the g6 has vss that is affecting spatial quality, yet not interfering with hesuvi. I don't see how this is possible.



i was saying that lav audio decoder software downmix sounds different spatially then whatever g6 is doing with sbx off.
i recorded a couple samples via "what u hear":
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pt4NdVytqOFzooOu5ESVh5ZJjNJW8emX

from these to me it seems like:
1. g6 sbx off with hesuvi works good
2. you may be right regarding g6 sbx off being just a downmix (but different algorithm than lav filters)
3. 2 layered hrtfs still allow some postitional accuracy but with degraded quality

however what is not seen with these samples is that g6 sbx off without hesuvi provides decent positional accuracy in games.

edit: i mean that i can also differentiate between front/back.
maybe they are doing something else besides downmix with sbx off.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 23, 2019)

https://imgur.com/crbE1t7

So I can confirm off the bat, since there are those blank spaces across front left and front right, that those channels don't have virtual surround sound. So it can't interfere with hesuvi.
However, if you look further down, I don't see blank spaces for side left, rear left, side right, rear right. From the image alone, I don't know if that is simply a bug in the mixer, or if it is vss for those channels.

When I do listening tests though, I feel like I am not hearing any difference in depth between any of the channels on g6 no sbx.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> When I do listening tests though, I feel like I am not hearing any difference in depth between any of the channels on g6 no sbx.



you mean the rear and side channels? noticed that too with this specific clip i used for testing.
however in gaming i think i can differentiate between those channels with just their "downmix".
maybe they are doing other things like idk maybe modifying spectral content without applying hrtf.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 23, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> you mean the rear and side channels? noticed that too with this specific clip i used for testing.
> however in gaming i think i can differentiate between those channels with just their "downmix".
> maybe they are doing other things like idk maybe modifying spectral content without applying hrtf.



I can't hear a difference in depth between any of the channels on g6 no sbx. The rear and side channels are louder though.


----------



## mindbomb

@ciukacz 

can you do a g6 no sbx recording for this file: https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/7.1auditionOutLeader_v2_rtb.mp4

I think maybe the issue with the side and rear channels might have been in the source file itself.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> @ciukacz
> 
> can you do a g6 no sbx recording for this file: https://www2.iis.fraunhofer.de/AAC/7.1auditionOutLeader_v2_rtb.mp4
> 
> I think maybe the issue with the side and rear channels might have been in the source file itself.



no, the sample was good. uploaded my original sample and what you asked.
and, for clarity, results named "hesuvi*" are also on the g6 with sbx off.


----------



## mindbomb

@ciukacz 

So, yea, definitely, the way the g6 downmixes the side and rear channels is different than a regular stereo downmix in that there is less stereo separation for those channels. When you further downmix this to mono, the volume of the rear channels and side channels goes down, indicating what ends up in left and right are opposite phase. I don't know why it is doing this, maybe it is a bug, or maybe it helps with sbx when it is on, I don't know.


----------



## afireinside

So I've had my SBX G6 for a few weeks now and so far I'm quite happy with it. Now I'm wanting to pick up a set of headphones to use directly out of the G6 for gaming purposes only. 

The past few days have been a seemingly endless search with no definitive answer. Of course there never is a definitive answer on the internet, and opinions are always divided to some extent. But it seems most discussion regarding what makes a "good" or "best" gaming headphone approaches the topic with the assumption that "best" means you hear footsteps in an FPS game better than your opponent does. I don't really care about differentiating if someone 7 feet away instead of 6 feet away if it means gunshots sound like BB guns and explosions sound like someone popping bubble wrap. Then there's the whole VSS wildcard, which seems to change everything...

So for use directly amp'd by the SBX G6, with SBX virtual surround enabled, playing mostly single player PC games of all genres (with multiplayer FPS games on occasion), what's good and what's garbage? I'd like to stay around the $200 price point, but I'm open to spend a bit more if needed. So far I've looked at:

HD6xx - I never owned a pair of the legendary HD650s, so that aspect of it is somewhat enticing, but seem to be generally regarded as crap for gaming
HD58x - Cheaper, easier to drive, supposedly have excellent imaging. Some people say they're great, others say they suck for gaming.
K7xx - I had a pair of K701s many moons ago when they were basically AKGs flagship and loved them. Super comfortable IMO. But is the hugely wide sound stage TOO WIDE with VSS? Is that even something I should worry about?
HE-4xx/HE-400i - Seen these referenced a few times as good gaming 'phones, but can the G6 really drive them? My HE-560s are crazy power hungry so I have my doubts...
Then there's all the other "classic" gaming headphones... HD598, AD700x, bunch of other alpha-numeric names...


----------



## illram

HD598 if you want a well rounded headphone with some warmth. Responds great to VSS DSP's. HE400i if you want something more neutral. Can't say re: HD58x as I have never tried it. Not a huge fan of the 7xx but some here swear by it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

afireinside said:


> So I've had my SBX G6 for a few weeks now and so far I'm quite happy with it. Now I'm wanting to pick up a set of headphones to use directly out of the G6 for gaming purposes only.
> 
> The past few days have been a seemingly endless search with no definitive answer. Of course there never is a definitive answer on the internet, and opinions are always divided to some extent. But it seems most discussion regarding what makes a "good" or "best" gaming headphone approaches the topic with the assumption that "best" means you hear footsteps in an FPS game better than your opponent does. I don't really care about differentiating if someone 7 feet away instead of 6 feet away if it means gunshots sound like BB guns and explosions sound like someone popping bubble wrap. Then there's the whole VSS wildcard, which seems to change everything...
> 
> ...


I really like the HD58X for just about any kind of audio, but have never used them for FPS gaming (not really into any FPS gaming).

The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones are very bass light, but usually get great reviews for FPS gaming.

You also might check out the Soundmagic HP200 open headphones, very lively sound, but see what overs say about them for FPS gaming.


----------



## Lay.

afireinside said:


> So I've had my SBX G6 for a few weeks now and so far I'm quite happy with it. Now I'm wanting to pick up a set of headphones to use directly out of the G6 for gaming purposes only.
> 
> The past few days have been a seemingly endless search with no definitive answer. Of course there never is a definitive answer on the internet, and opinions are always divided to some extent. But it seems most discussion regarding what makes a "good" or "best" gaming headphone approaches the topic with the assumption that "best" means you hear footsteps in an FPS game better than your opponent does. I don't really care about differentiating if someone 7 feet away instead of 6 feet away if it means gunshots sound like BB guns and explosions sound like someone popping bubble wrap. Then there's the whole VSS wildcard, which seems to change everything...
> 
> ...



Wait what? You have HD800S and you are looking for a good headphone for gaming? 

Have you tried them with G6 and how did you like/dislike the sound?


----------



## afireinside

Lay. said:


> Wait what? You have HD800S and you are looking for a good headphone for gaming?
> 
> Have you tried them with G6 and how did you like/dislike the sound?



They sound great with the G6, but two things annoy me with using them for gaming:
-Comfort wise I've always had a bit of love/hate relationship with the HD800S. They're light weight and don't clamp down on your head like a vice, but something has always seemed 'off' with how they fit my head. It feels I can never get them to sit just right. I'll periodically get annoyed, adjust them all over the place on my head, and basically make no improvement.
-Having to switch DAC inputs back and forth is a pain, as is having to power on an amp just to play a game. Yes, I'm that lazy. Would be nice to just toss on a pair of headphones, switch output devices in Windows, and go. 

Maybe I'll just snag a pair of K7xx since I know they're comfortable (yes, I know some people would strongly disagree with that statement, maybe I just have a weird head)...


----------



## Lay.

afireinside said:


> They sound great with the G6, but two things annoy me with using them for gaming:
> -Comfort wise I've always had a bit of love/hate relationship with the HD800S. They're light weight and don't clamp down on your head like a vice, but something has always seemed 'off' with how they fit my head. It feels I can never get them to sit just right. I'll periodically get annoyed, adjust them all over the place on my head, and basically make no improvement.
> -Having to switch DAC inputs back and forth is a pain, as is having to power on an amp just to play a game. Yes, I'm that lazy. Would be nice to just toss on a pair of headphones, switch output devices in Windows, and go.
> 
> Maybe I'll just snag a pair of K7xx since I know they're comfortable (yes, I know some people would strongly disagree with that statement, maybe I just have a weird head)...



I'm sure you can find nice headphones for gaming from AKG. HD598 is a nice option too.


----------



## Cesarlo

Does anyone have a link to the G6 beta firmware? I know it's a closed beta, but Ryan was seemingly messaging it out to anyone on Reddit, so I personally can't see the harm in sharing it through private messages here. Just means not having to wait for Ryan to check his DM's, but understood if no one wishes to share. Just thought I'd check to see if I could have a play around with it over the weekend.


----------



## KR1SeS

Cesarlo said:


> Does anyone have a link to the G6 beta firmware? I know it's a closed beta, but Ryan was seemingly messaging it out to anyone on Reddit, so I personally can't see the harm in sharing it through private messages here. Just means not having to wait for Ryan to check his DM's, but understood if no one wishes to share. Just thought I'd check to see if I could have a play around with it over the weekend.


Latest BETA driver:
https://creative.box.com/s/5ots8s4q5bg8pwcm8eirw2r8zd9l1qfp

Firmware update:
https://creative.box.com/s/oh6etm6jcv0l0fu9v3w6w7kjsljte0nf

Reference:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/aw8ih1/update_to_g6_beta_software/


----------



## DrKrFfXx

afireinside said:


> They sound great with the G6, but two things annoy me with using them for gaming:
> -Comfort wise I've always had a bit of love/hate relationship with the HD800S. They're light weight and don't clamp down on your head like a vice, but something has always seemed 'off' with how they fit my head. It feels I can never get them to sit just right. I'll periodically get annoyed, adjust them all over the place on my head, and basically make no improvement.
> -Having to switch DAC inputs back and forth is a pain, as is having to power on an amp just to play a game. Yes, I'm that lazy. Would be nice to just toss on a pair of headphones, switch output devices in Windows, and go.
> 
> Maybe I'll just snag a pair of K7xx since I know they're comfortable (yes, I know some people would strongly disagree with that statement, maybe I just have a weird head)...



I will suggest Massdrop Sennheiser HD58x.


----------



## Rozzko

Hi
Does anyone listening music on creative G6 ?

I trying to buy 1 device for my goals. 
Now I have DAC+amp = CENTRANCE Dacport HD
And headphones = meze 99 classics. 

And I want to know how good/bad creative g6 in terms of sound quality of playing music. Not games, I talking about music.

Thanks!!


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> Does anyone listening music on creative G6 ?
> 
> I trying to buy 1 device for my goals.
> ...



In my experience, the G6 has good resolution, ok instrument separation, but the sound signature is a bit fatiguing and cold to my ears. I'd say it is more on the analytical, not so musical side.


----------



## headphonesonly

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> Does anyone listening music on creative G6 ?
> 
> I trying to buy 1 device for my goals.
> ...


They’re pretty good for music. Clear and transparent.


----------



## afireinside (Mar 3, 2019)

DrKrFfXx said:


> I will suggest Massdrop Sennheiser HD58x.



That's exactly what I ended up ordering. Wanted to try something new, it was the cheapest option, and it had stellar reviews. They weren't supposed to arrive until Monday, but I received a pleasant surprise from Fedex yesterday afternoon!

Comfort wise, they're super light weight and a bit more 'normal' sized than my mega bulky HD800S. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the HD800S aren't UNcomfortable, but they've always felt a bit strange to me, and it's hard to forget you have them on your head. The smaller lighter HD58x I can toss on and almost forget I'm wearing them in comparison.

The 'clamp force' is a bit high, but it doesn't feel like they're trying to crush your skull like a watermelon as some people would lead you to believe. I don't mind the pressure at all. It's not as noticeable as my HE-560s, which border on a bit too tight IMO. These cans fit snug enough to where they won't fall off my head if I lean back in my chair, or shift around if I move my head too quickly.

The build quality feels stout enough where they can hold up to some 'careless' or 'abusive' (depending on how you view it) usage. More importantly, the price was low enough to where I'm not always self conscious about wearing them and I won't have a mini-heart attack if I accidentally snag the cable or anything. I already managed to have the cable wrapped around the arm of my chair, causing the headphones to get yanked and flip off my desk when I got up to go grab a drink last night. It was certainly nice to go "oh, whoops" and carry on without much concern.

My only reason for buying these was gaming w/ the SBX G6, but I couldn't help but plug them into the SE output of my Ragnarok and play a few tracks to see how they sounded (disclaimer: I'm woefully under qualified to describe sound). I've never had any gripes with the treble on the HD800S, but my first thought was that HD800S sound was rather fatiguing compared to what I was hearing from these. Bass is more pronounced, but not excessive or boomy by any means. Overall detail is obviously lacking in comparison, but at less than 1/10th the price, that's no surprise. Overall they're fun to listen to, and I could toss them on and relax for hours listening to music on these. For the price, they're VERY impressive IMO.

After a brief listening session, they migrated to the headphone output of my SBX G6. Even using the "low" gain setting, 30% volume is enough to get these more than loud enough. I got a solid 6+ hours of Assassin's Creed Odyssey in last night and the HD58x were a pleasure. Zero comfort issues over this play session, and the sound was certainly nothing to shake a stick at. Sound stage did feel somewhat narrow compared to the HD800S, but again, that was expected. I left the G6 surround setting on "wide", so perhaps I'll give "ultra wide" a shot today. Ultra wide on the HD800S was more like "TOO wide", and the resulting sound just seemed abnormal. Maybe with the smaller sound stage of the HD58x it will work better.

Overall a solid purchase and I'm quite satisfied with them. I do still want to try a K7xx or K712 though. Oh and those Focal Elex on Massdrop look nice too  Maybe I should go back to gaming before I go broke...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

So is paying for Dolby Atmos a scam or something? Because I've paid $15 for the license on my PC, followed the steps (I'm not stupid), and enabled it for the device I'm using (and I've tested several). Hopped into games that I KNOW work with every single other virtual surround dsp under the sun I've tested, and Dolby Atmos/Windows Sonic don't do a DAMN thing. May as well be stereo because I don't hear a difference.

Thing is, when I used HeSuVi back then, the Dolby Atmos and Sonic presets definitely worked. I don't use that anymore, and I'm starting to wonder how the real thing doesn't freaking work.

This is incredibly frustrating. $15 I don't have the luxury of just tossing away that is basically rendered worthless atm.








As you can see, it is enabled. So what gives?


----------



## afireinside

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So is paying for Dolby Atmos a scam or something? Because I've paid $15 for the license on my PC, followed the steps (I'm not stupid), and enabled it for the device I'm using (and I've tested several). Hopped into games that I KNOW work with every single other virtual surround dsp under the sun I've tested, and Dolby Atmos/Windows Sonic don't do a DAMN thing. May as well be stereo because I don't hear a difference.
> 
> Thing is, when I used HeSuVi back then, the Dolby Atmos and Sonic presets definitely worked. I don't use that anymore, and I'm starting to wonder how the real thing doesn't freaking work.
> 
> ...



What's your output device? When I messed around with the 30 day trial, it straight up would not work with my output set directly to my DAC (Schiit gen 3 USB). But if I set my output to my SBX G6, then line-out from the G6 to my DAC, it worked great. Couldn't figure out what the deal was for the life of me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

I tried the G6, my PortaPro wireless through Bluetooth directly, and the GSX1000. None of them do a damn thing.

This is why I prefer external devices. As soon as anything involves windows and a bunch of drivers, it all goes to absolute hell. Jank garbage.

Now I'm trying the Audeze Mobius which is like 4 headphones in one when it comes to how Windows reads it. Hi Res, BT, 8ch, 2ch (all with 3D off). Either Atmos is unselectable, or it does nothing. When Sonic is selectable, it does nothing.


----------



## Nemmera

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I tried the G6, my PortaPro wireless through Bluetooth directly, and the GSX1000. None of them do a damn thing.
> 
> This is why I prefer external devices. As soon as anything involves windows and a bunch of drivers, it all goes to absolute hell. Jank garbage.
> 
> Now I'm trying the Audeze Mobius which is like 4 headphones in one when it comes to how Windows reads it. Hi Res, BT, 8ch, 2ch (all with 3D off). Either Atmos is unselectable, or it does nothing. When Sonic is selectable, it does nothing.



Stupid question, but have you made sure ”Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device” and ”Give exclusive application priority” are ticked in your sound card? I know... I know... But I've managed to uncheck those and  then wonder why my software wasn't working.

I haven't purchased Dolby Atmos, but I will do it later and test it out as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

Yes, all of that is checked.

Even went to my PC's headphone jack to see if it has any sort of priority in these kinds of things. Nothing. Same nothing as with all other devices.

It sure would be nice to try Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos at one point. But nope. Maybe for someone like me with a billion sound devices in the registry, it just borked the possibility for Windows to get this crap to work. I'd have to likely reformat, and I ain't about to wipe off everything and reinstall it all. I don't have the patience for that.


----------



## Nemmera

I activated Dolby Atmos for Headphones on my EVGA Nu Audio card. A billion different sound devices shouldn't hinder it from working, unless plugged in at the same time. 

If I try it with some random Youtube vid or song on Spotify I don't hear a difference.

Pretty sure it only outputs Dolby Atmos if the sound source has that "logic" (I don't know what else to call it) built in... The GSX and SBX solutions change the characteristics of sound when activated, as it emulates 5.1/7.1 on all outputs. With Dolby Atmos activated the it seems to keep outputting stereo (I don't get a 5.1 speaker setup option in Windows) unless the source material has the Atmos "logic" built in. I tried it with Guardians of the Galaxy 2 on Netflix and I can hear a noticeable difference with Atmos on or off. 

With that said, the GSX1000 is still the best Virtual Surround experience I've had. Too bad the DAC/AMP in that thing sounds a bit cheap. I would easily pay twice the asking price (and get rid of all other soundcards/DACs) if it had a better DAC/AMP, lower noise floor, a higher quality mic input and external power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

Nemmera said:


> I activated Dolby Atmos for Headphones on my EVGA Nu Audio card. A billion different sound devices shouldn't hinder it from working, unless plugged in at the same time.
> 
> If I try it with some random Youtube vid or song on Spotify I don't hear a difference.
> 
> ...


So essentially, it only works for sources that have Atmos capabilities? I was under the impression that it (as well as Windows Snic), worked like every other surround DSP. In that they process sound into their respective outputs. Under HeSuVi, both worked with whatever game I threw at it.  If it only works for SOME things, that is a huge waste of time, effort, and money, and I don't find that the likely scenario.

I tried the Atmos 'demos' in the app itself, and there was no changes from it on vs stereo. So again, something must be up.


----------



## Nemmera

Doesn't the Demo just Demo what Atmos does and pushes that sound to your 2.0 output? I mean - it's all just 2.0 in the end... 

The difference with games, for instance, is that if it has 5.1 or 7.1 support but no HRTF for Headphones or similar logic it doesn't know how to accurately translate that sound into Stereo in real time.

Honestly, I'm crap at things like this - I just approach it logically. No idea why HeSuVi changes the sound characteristics, UNLESS it changes your Windows Speaker setup to 5.1/7.1 . I'm pretty sure the Dolby Solution doesn't because $$$ (push "Dolby Atmos enabled content" as a feature).


----------



## Fegefeuer

I posted about it a few weeks ago in this very thread with screenshots. Dolby Atmos has been updated. Works flawlessly for both games and movies of all Kind. Bonus is Atmos games and movies of course, everything else is virtual 7.1. Youtube and music or non multichannel is passthrough. On mobile right now unfortunately. Make sure dropdown selection in sound panel of the corresponding device shows Atmos for Headphones, else reset app.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

Ok, so I got it to work. I had to force windows updates, and even though I've been getting updates freaking weekly it seems, it didn't push through the creator's update.

Whatever THAT did, both Sonic and Windows are working. Just testing through the Realtek drivers for now (PC to TV, TV to optical out to my Mixamp 5.8)

Whatever happened, it's working now, and I can hear the differences now.

That being said, I feel that both Sonic and Atmos have low/small 'room' sizes. It'd benefit both to have some room size adjustment sliders or something. Atmos sounds like possibly an inferior Dolby Headphone 1. Sonic is worse and much too small in size. Both are definitely better than stereo.

All in all, I think these work in a pinch, especially Atmos, but until I can change to a larger ambient room size, it's no comparison to SBX, DH2, GSX whatsoever.

I could see people adverse to virtual surround liking these, as they come close to stereo but with some surround benefits. Sonic is a bit trebly to me though.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I posted about that too back then. Atmos will get options in the next Update and the Windows Update will also bring dts:x ultra with it


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> I posted about that too back then. Atmos will get options in the next Update and the Windows Update will also bring dts:x ultra with it


You know I'm barely on here! 

And that DTS option just showed up after I updated today. It'll be interesting how it all pans out. May make surround enabling devices obsolete. Though I don't like that both Atmos and Sonic force stereo as well as 16/48. So if you were using 24 or 32bit with stuff like 96khz to 384khz, it'll all be forced down to just 16/48.

So if you're using a G6 and have that set to 7.1 24/96 for example, when you toggle Atmos, it will automatically down lock everything to stereo 16/48. Makes it very hard to do comparisons on the fly because of it, since the G6 needs 5.1 or 7.1 to be enabled for SBX to work right.


----------



## ciukacz

are you sure you also disabled hesuvi? i can't differentiate between front/back with windows sonic


----------



## mindbomb

The changes to windows spatial audio seem to coincide with the development of the DTS app. You have to wonder if no one really tested the dolby atmos for headphones or windows sonic for headphones in games, and if it was DTS that realized how bad the situation was and forced the spatial audio changes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ciukacz said:


> are you sure you also disabled hesuvi? i can't differentiate between front/back with windows sonic


I uninstalled all of that ages ago. It's definitely not doing anything. My fear was that whatever plugins HeSuVi hand the Equalizer APO, etc installed may have left traces in my system even after uninstalling all of it.

And I don't blame you with Sonic. Front/back is VERY HARD to discern. Basically you 100% need a visual cue to trick the brain. Playing Destiny 2 with out and it definitely doesn't do well in doing front/back but it's there. Just BARELY.

Atmos is a little better in that regard, and even that feels way too close to the head. This is why I could never do things like low surround settings on SBX, DH1, it things like that. Should be at least half the surround room size or more for those dsps.


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I uninstalled all of that ages ago. It's definitely not doing anything. My fear was that whatever plugins HeSuVi hand the Equalizer APO, etc installed may have left traces in my system even after uninstalling all of it.
> 
> And I don't blame you with Sonic. Front/back is VERY HARD to discern. Basically you 100% need a visual cue to trick the brain. Playing Destiny 2 with out and it definitely doesn't do well in doing front/back but it's there. Just BARELY.
> 
> Atmos is a little better in that regard, and even that feels way too close to the head. This is why I could never do things like low surround settings on SBX, DH1, it things like that. Should be at least half the surround room size or more for those dsps.


Are you sure it's working? Sonic for headphones should be pretty spacious. You can hear what it is supposed to sound like with hesuvi or with an xbox console.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> Are you sure it's working? Sonic for headphones should be pretty spacious. You can hear what it is supposed to sound like with hesuvi or with an xbox console.


Yes, it's definitely working. But it's not DH2, SBX 67-100%, GSX Surround at 1+ levels of open.

HeSuVi makes both sound more open, likely because he found a way to have a bigger ambient room size. It's like the default is just smaller than my preferences. HeSuVi's version of both sound like my expectations. What I'm getting from the real thing doesn't.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 5, 2019)

So I updated to 1809 so I could try the new spatial audio stuff. One thing I noticed in Serious Sam 3, which supports xaudio 2.7, and xaudio 2.9, is that spatial audio only works with xaudio 2.9. Since 2.9 was released in 2015, it seems that's the cut off for about how old the game can be?

As mentioned before, it does conveniently tell you when it is on when you click the volume icon in the toolbar
https://imgur.com/3gtCZXH


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> As mentioned before, it does conveniently tell you when it is on when you click the volume icon in the toolbar
> https://imgur.com/3gtCZXH



i never saw that on 1809, assumed you were talking only about the dts app


----------



## mindbomb

ciukacz said:


> i never saw that on 1809


Fegefeuer mentioned it worked with dolby atmos for headphone before. You have to be using a compatible application for that message to show up.


----------



## KR1SeS

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok, so I got it to work. I had to force windows updates, and even though I've been getting updates freaking weekly it seems, it didn't push through the creator's update.
> 
> Whatever THAT did, both Sonic and Windows are working. Just testing through the Realtek drivers for now (PC to TV, TV to optical out to my Mixamp 5.8)
> 
> ...


Do you think you'll update the OP to include Atmos for Headphones and other Windows software based HRTF options?

I'm still torn between the GSX 1000, SBX or the Mayflower Arc (coupled with Atmos for Headphones). I don't have the funds to purchase all of them and test. Really appreciate all your effort bud.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> @ciukacz
> 
> So, yea, definitely, the way the g6 downmixes the side and rear channels is different than a regular stereo downmix in that there is less stereo separation for those channels. When you further downmix this to mono, the volume of the rear channels and side channels goes down, indicating what ends up in left and right are opposite phase. I don't know why it is doing this, maybe it is a bug, or maybe it helps with sbx when it is on, I don't know.



after some more testing i'm fairly certain it is doing a dolby dpl2 downmix with lfe:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uQYGFnhnRooyY-gXxSCbJRlYI34UlZ8N


----------



## Fegefeuer

Dolby Atmos for Headphones of course shines with Atmos tracks best. Really excellent stuff. Haven't tried it with Forza 4 as I'm still playing Forza 3 (of course I bought Forza 4 because it was 20 bucks during Christmas) but it also works excellently with Gears 4 asw well.
So the more Atmos in games and movies appear, the better DAfH appears.

The only problem I have (apart from the smaller stage) is that voices are in my head and not projected. SBX with the HD800 really makes the center channel come out of the screen.


----------



## KR1SeS

I have the Philips SHP9500s for competitive (not pro) gaming. Would the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm cans be an upgrade when used with VSS and looking for good positional audio for footsteps and gunshots? Will likely be using with the Sound BlasterX G6.

How about the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus?

Thanks guys.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Mar 6, 2019)

KR1SeS said:


> I have the Philips SHP9500s for competitive (not pro) gaming. Would the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm cans be an upgrade when used with VSS and looking for good positional audio for footsteps and gunshots? Will likely be using with the Sound BlasterX G6.
> 
> How about the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus?
> 
> Thanks guys.



I'm gonna plant the seed of doubt here.

Having myself both the GSX 1000 and the G6, I really feel the GSX (without reverb) gets more pinpoint positional accuracy compared to the G6. The G6, although cleaner sounding and more powerful, might feel confusing at times, not coherent compared to the GSX, when talking about positional cues.

Just my 2 cents. If you can, get both and keep the one you like the most. It's a toss up in most scenarios, but competitively I'd give the slight edge to the GSX.

I've kept both, but in the end, I just use the G6 as a line out to my selfpowered desktop speakers. I really like how clean it sounds with them. Headphone surround is all about the GSX.


----------



## ciukacz

DrKrFfXx said:


> Having myself both the GSX 1000 and the G6, I really feel the GSX (without reverb) gets more pinpoint positional accuracy compared to the G6.



have you compared hardware gsx vs gsx processing off with hesuvi gsx profile?
or hardware gsx vs g6 hesuvi gsx profile?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Having gone back to the GSX1000 today, there really is nothing I'd rather use for VSS. In terms of streaight 7.1 VSS, GSX is the best. I use one '+' on the device for the surround size.

Now, I'll have to hear how Atmos sounds with its Atmos based sources, but other than that, I don't really think it can get better than GSX. Sennheiser got it right.


----------



## KR1SeS

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Having gone back to the GSX1000 today, there really is nothing I'd rather use for VSS. In terms of streaight 7.1 VSS, GSX is the best. I use one '+' on the device for the surround size.
> 
> Now, I'll have to hear how Atmos sounds with its Atmos based sources, but other than that, I don't really think it can get better than GSX. Sennheiser got it right.


How would the HeSuVi GSX profile compare with the hardware GSX 1000?


----------



## DrKrFfXx

ciukacz said:


> have you compared hardware gsx vs gsx processing off with hesuvi gsx profile?
> or hardware gsx vs g6 hesuvi gsx profile?



Now you lost me there haha.

I've only compared stock settings on both, hardware vs hardware VSS.

I will research on those things you mention, but if you have a link, I gladly compare them with the settings you say.


----------



## ciukacz

DrKrFfXx said:


> Now you lost me there haha.
> 
> I've only compared stock settings on both, hardware vs hardware VSS.
> 
> I will research on those things you mention, but if you have a link, I gladly compare them with the settings you say.



i mean if you compared:
1. gsx hardware with its hardware vss enabled against gsx hardware with its hardware vss DISABLED but with hesuvi gsx profile enabled
2. gsx hardware with its hardware vss enabled against g6 with its hardware vss DISABLED but with hesuvi gsx profile enabled


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

KR1SeS said:


> How would the HeSuVi GSX profile compare with the hardware GSX 1000?



Last time I used HeSuVi, the GSX profile wasn't done correctly. There was apparently some issue or other that it didn't sound as intended. But even back then I felt GSX was very strong.  Now, I dunno if it's been fixed, but the real deal is perfect to me. There is literally nothing more that can be done in terms of taking a 7.1 signal and turning that into virtual surround. It's as good as it gets. All we can improve on now is height cues.


----------



## KR1SeS

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Last time I used HeSuVi, the GSX profile wasn't done correctly. There was apparently some issue or other that it didn't sound as intended. But even back then I felt GSX was very strong.  Now, I dunno if it's been fixed, but the real deal is perfect to me. There is literally nothing more that can be done in terms of taking a 7.1 signal and turning that into virtual surround. It's as good as it gets. All we can improve on now is height cues.


Ok thanks. My only concern with the GSX 1000 is the mic input quality due to heavy processing. Is the mic input quality really as bad as some reviews state?


----------



## ciukacz

KR1SeS said:


> My only concern with the GSX 1000 is the mic input quality due to heavy processing



did the gsx 1000 also had these? i know g6 had mic issues until last beta firmware


----------



## Nemmera

From my experience, the GSX mic input got way better when I updated the firmware on mine (using the Sennheiser updater). BUT, it's still pretty mediocre compared to a really good sound card.


----------



## KR1SeS

Would $186 USD for brand new Philips Fidelo X2HR be worth it over my current SHP9500s?


----------



## headphonesonly

KR1SeS said:


> I have the Philips SHP9500s for competitive (not pro) gaming. Would the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm cans be an upgrade when used with VSS and looking for good positional audio for footsteps and gunshots? Will likely be using with the Sound BlasterX G6.
> 
> How about the Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus?
> 
> Thanks guys.


No. I still felt like the shps were better for competitive games


----------



## AppleheadMay

Probably a stupid question or maybe not but after having used Windows for 15 years, than Mac for 15 years I recently added a Windows PC to my setup again and could use some advice.

My mainboard is an Aorus Z390 Xtreme which should have a decent onboard soundcard I think (Realtek ALC1220-VB 9018K2M Sabre Dac, Burr Brown op-amps, 7.1channel). 
My question isn't about the SQ of that card, rather a feature it has or doesn't have.

Being a 7,1channel card (for speakers), can it put out virtual surround to headphones? 
I don't think so which is why I use a Sennheiser GSX 1000.
Are there any internal PCI soundcards that do feed virtual surround to headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

AppleheadMay said:


> Probably a stupid question or maybe not but after having used Windows for 15 years, than Mac for 15 years I recently added a Windows PC to my setup again and could use some advice.
> My mainboard is an Aorus Z390 Xtreme which should have a decent onboard sound card I think (Realtek ALC1220-VB 9018K2M Sabre Dac, Burr Brown op-amps, 7.1channel).
> My question isn't about the SQ of that card, rather a feature it has or doesn't have.
> Being a 7,1channel card (for speakers), can it put out virtual surround to headphones?
> ...



The words "virtual sound sound", I think is a fancy word for faked headphone surround sound.
I think you mean headphone surround sound (like CMSS3D or SBX or Dolby Headphone, etc), which can take a 6-channel or 8-channel audio source and convert it into 2-channels of headphone surround sound.
For $30, you can get Creative's X-Fi MB3 (SBX Headphone surround sound), that works with your Realtek ALC1220 audio processor.
http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3


----------



## AppleheadMay

PurpleAngel said:


> The words "virtual sound sound", I think is a fancy word for faked headphone surround sound.
> I think you mean headphone surround sound (like CMSS3D or SBX or Dolby Headphone, etc), which can take a 6-channel or 8-channel audio source and convert it into 2-channels of headphone surround sound.
> For $30, you can get Creative's X-Fi MB3 (SBX Headphone surround sound), that works with your Realtek ALC1220 audio processor.
> http://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3



That's exactly what it is, downmixing multichannel into 2-channel for headphones and faking the multichannel perception.
Like DTS Virtual:X does for speaker systems with no height channels, faking the height channels and quite well at that I must say. Sadly Dolby forbids it.

Thanks for the link. I see that software does for basic soundcards what their related supplied software does for their own more advanced soundcards.
My MB-soundcard seems to be a basic one with upgraded DAC and amp section then.

So Sound-Blaster X-Fi MB3 is like Dolby Headphone, Dolby Atmos for headphone, Windows Sonic for headphones, ... as I understand it.
And where does DTS Headphone:X come in then? Is that a similar application or is it more like a codec that the source material needs to be encoded with?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Last time I used HeSuVi, the GSX profile wasn't done correctly. There was apparently some issue or other that it didn't sound as intended. But even back then I felt GSX was very strong.  Now, I dunno if it's been fixed, but the real deal is perfect to me. There is literally nothing more that can be done in terms of taking a 7.1 signal and turning that into virtual surround. It's as good as it gets. All we can improve on now is height cues.



At version 2.0 it was still the same. Definitely not the real deal. Don't know if they fixed it. Looking forward to the Dolby Atmos for headphones options. Until then I'm using the G6 between the PC and the PS4. 

Do you know what the "surround improvements" for the G6 are that Creative was talking about at reddit?



AppleheadMay said:


> And where does DTS Headphone:X come in then? Is that a similar application or is it more like a codec that the source material needs to be encoded with?



DTS:X Ultra includes DTS Headphone X of the latest generation, just like Dolby Access includes Dolby Atmos for Headphones. It's not ready yet though but should be sometime in spring.


----------



## Jornel

Nemmera said:


> From my experience, the GSX mic input got way better when I updated the firmware on mine (using the Sennheiser updater). BUT, it's still pretty mediocre compared to a really good sound card.


Hi, can you tell me how did you updated the firmware please?
Also, does the hd600/6xx works good with the gsx? Or for the money shoud i get the gsp 500/600? I want to upgrade my shp 9500s and i don´t know what to do. Apreciate for some help.
Thanks


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> DTS:X Ultra includes DTS Headphone X of the latest generation, just like Dolby Access includes Dolby Atmos for Headphones. It's not ready yet though but should be sometime in spring.





Jornel said:


> Hi, can you tell me how did you updated the firmware please?
> Also, does the hd600/6xx works good with the gsx? Or for the money shoud i get the gsp 500/600? I want to upgrade my shp 9500s and i don´t know what to do. Apreciate for some help.
> Thanks



https://en-us.sennheiser.com/gaming-downloads
Download the Firmware update tool, the first download on this site. It looks like it's only for the Surround Dongles but it's actually for all their gaming gear.

No, the amp of the GSX 1000 is a bit underpowered for the 600 and 6XX, it's best to use with phones at or below 150 Ohm impedance like it says in the manual, I tried it.
What I do is connect the headphones out (not speakers out) from the GSX 1000 to my headphone amp and plug the phones in there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> At version 2.0 it was still the same. Definitely not the real deal. Don't know if they fixed it. Looking forward to the Dolby Atmos for headphones options. Until then I'm using the G6 between the PC and the PS4.
> 
> Do you know what the "surround improvements" for the G6 are that Creative was talking about at reddit?



Last time I spoke to them was before CES, and it was by a small email which was months after they had sent me the Aurvana Trio.

I haven't touched base with them in a while, basically. No idea on anything G6 related. I'm sure I'm a few updates behind with it. Though I don't have any issues with it atm.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

@Fegefeuer So you're telling me Gears 4 on pc has Atmos? I have the game. I'd have to reinstall... and it's 135gb or so, so it'll take some time, but I'm interested in replaying it with Atmos to see how well it works. Gears 4 was one of those games that works very well with SBX, GSX, etc. So I'm excited to retry.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Oh, I played it on the Xbox One X. 

I'll test the PC version too though since it's Play Anywhere. Gonna do it tonight.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> Oh, I played it on the Xbox One X.
> 
> I'll test the PC version too though since it's Play Anywhere. Gonna do it tonight.



And with your phones connected to the controller? Which phones did you use btw?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No. Xbox One X setup for Dolby Atmos for Headphones -> optical out -> DAC -> AMP -> HD 800.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> No. Xbox One X setup for Dolby Atmos for Headphones -> optical out -> DAC -> AMP -> HD 800.



I have the app, I could do that.
I guess you can't even use Atmos for Headphones when connected to the controller?


----------



## Fegefeuer

You actually should be able to.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ah, ok, thanks. Will try it out. Haven't been able to use my Xbox much lately.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, I sold the Xbox One X because everything was on the PC as well. Now it's even better with Sunset Overdrive, probably Halo MCC and Game Pass coming in. No need for a Xbox if you have a PC.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Last time I used HeSuVi, the GSX profile wasn't done correctly. There was apparently some issue or other that it didn't sound as intended. But even back then I felt GSX was very strong.  Now, I dunno if it's been fixed, but the real deal is perfect to me. There is literally nothing more that can be done in terms of taking a 7.1 signal and turning that into virtual surround. It's as good as it gets. All we can improve on now is height cues.



Had the GSX a till a few weeks ago. Then did some testing with HeSuvi 2.0. Didn't hear a difference, so I sold the GSX.


----------



## KR1SeS

Rhadamanthys said:


> Had the GSX a till a few weeks ago. Then did some testing with HeSuvi 2.0. Didn't hear a difference, so I sold the GSX.


Great to know. If you are not using the hardwware GSX and using the profile in HeSuVi instead, are you outputting directly to your headphones from your on-board soundcard? Or do you have an external solution? Are you using VB Cable or Voicemeeter to visualize 7.1 to work with HeSuVi/Equalizer APO?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So tested Gears 4 today on PC. Doesn't sound like bonafied 'Atmos' to me. Sounds like pre-mixed virtual surround like in other gamnes. I wouldn't trade GSX or SBX for it.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

KR1SeS said:


> Great to know. If you are not using the hardwware GSX and using the profile in HeSuVi instead, are you outputting directly to your headphones from your on-board soundcard? Or do you have an external solution? Are you using VB Cable or Voicemeeter to visualize 7.1 to work with HeSuVi/Equalizer APO?



I bought a simple repair jack plug and put that in my onboard soundcard to fake an output connection. This way, the onboard (Realtek HD Audio) shows up as a usable sound device that can be set as default device and 7.1 surround. Then it's HeSuVi => Realtek HD onboard => Stereo Mix => external USB DAC => amp.

I played around with VB Cable, Voicemeter and a few other solutions, but I either couldn't get them to work properly or they had some drawbacks such as being another piece of software cluttering my system or some issue with volume control.


----------



## KR1SeS

Rhadamanthys said:


> I bought a simple repair jack plug and put that in my onboard soundcard to fake an output connection. This way, the onboard (Realtek HD Audio) shows up as a usable sound device that can be set as default device and 7.1 surround. Then it's HeSuVi => Realtek HD onboard => Stereo Mix => external USB DAC => amp.
> 
> I played around with VB Cable, Voicemeter and a few other solutions, but I either couldn't get them to work properly or they had some drawbacks such as being another piece of software cluttering my system or some issue with volume control.


Very interesting. Do you have a link to this repair plug? I have no idea what that is. I too wanted to avoid another piece of software like VB Cable which requires additional computer resources and may introduce latency.

Thanks!


----------



## ciukacz (Mar 8, 2019)

i think he means just the 3.5mm plug (no wires or anything), like the one you could take from broken headphones.
just for the soundcard to detect that something is plugged in there.

edit: and this is quite ingenious


----------



## Rhadamanthys (Mar 8, 2019)

KR1SeS said:


> Very interesting. Do you have a link to this repair plug? I have no idea what that is. I too wanted to avoid another piece of software like VB Cable which requires additional computer resources and may introduce latency.
> 
> Thanks!



Just a simple jack plug like these. They come as single, too. You could also insert a jack extension cable, works the same way. Mind you that using Stereo Mix is basically the same as using VC Cable, etc. Stereo Mix just comes bundled with the audio driver, so it's installed anyway. But it will introduce latency. I don't measure latency, so I've no clue how much. But it can't be that bad or I'm not susceptible to it, for I don't hear any delay.



ciukacz said:


> i think he means just the 3.5mm plug (no wires or anything), like the one you could take from broken headphones.
> just for the soundcard to detect that something is plugged in there.
> 
> edit: and this is quite ingenious



Yep, that's the one. And thanks


----------



## ciukacz

you really should post that on sourceforge hesuvi forums as another workaround, maybe with a screenshot like this: https://imgur.com/uWc98rJ


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Mar 8, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> i mean if you compared:
> 1. gsx hardware with its hardware vss enabled against gsx hardware with its hardware vss DISABLED but with hesuvi gsx profile enabled
> 2. gsx hardware with its hardware vss enabled against g6 with its hardware vss DISABLED but with hesuvi gsx profile enabled



Ok so I gave it a go and these are my impresions:

1. GSX Hard is superior to Hesuvi by a small margin, mostly, when the soundstage gets crowded with explosions and sounds coming from many places, it fails to render spatial awareness properly.

2. GSX Hard is still superior to the G6 with Hesuvi. BUT, G6 with Hesuvi is superior to G6 Hardware, although the sound signature is boring and lifeless, thin, lacking spatial depth, but the angle at which the sound is coming from is very accurate equal to the GSX hard, and maybe it provides height information much more accurrate than either GSX and G6 hardware enabled.

Overall, GSX Hardware provides the most natural sounding signature and 360º positional awareness. It only loses on clarity and some height rendering to G6 Hesuvi. I didn't like GSX Hesuvi at all,


----------



## ciukacz

DrKrFfXx said:


> maybe it provides height information much more accurrate than either GSX and G6 hardware enabled



since this is all based on 7.1 channels (vs 3d sound location) there is no height data and therefore this is just a coincidence with the specific material.
only games that provide 3d sound data to vss can accurately do that, example: 
another current example would be overwatch.



DrKrFfXx said:


> I didn't like GSX Hesuvi at all,



you sure you disabled hardware vss on gsx when doing hesuvi tests?

thanks!


----------



## afireinside

ciukacz said:


> since this is all based on 7.1 channels (vs 3d sound location) there is no height data and therefore this is just a coincidence with the specific material.
> only games that provide 3d sound data to vss can accurately do that, example:
> another current example would be overwatch.
> 
> ...




Likely a dumb question but: in games like CSGO with the HRTF audio option, or BFV, RE2, or others with the binaural audio output for headphones options, should I disable SBX virtual surround and set my SBX G6 to stereo mode?


----------



## illram

afireinside said:


> Likely a dumb question but: in games like CSGO with the HRTF audio option, or BFV, RE2, or others with the binaural audio output for headphones options, should I disable SBX virtual surround and set my SBX G6 to stereo mode?


Yes.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 9, 2019)

afireinside said:


> Likely a dumb question but: in games like CSGO with the HRTF audio option, or BFV, RE2, or others with the binaural audio output for headphones options, should I disable SBX virtual surround and set my SBX G6 to stereo mode?



There was discussion of this a few pages earlier. You have to turn off surround in sound> acoustic engine, but you can leave 7.1 headphones on in setup>headphones


----------



## stavros.m

Hello just curious would you recommend the sxfi amp for gaming?


----------



## illram

stavros.m said:


> Hello just curious would you recommend the sxfi amp for gaming?


If you have one of the headphones on their list of headphones in the app, and if you game on the PC, yes I highly recommend it.

Be aware that you need an Android device to perform the calibration and that some people are having issues with Windows doing weird stuff to the USB audio drivers when it updates the firmware, making it sound way worse than it should. I have not had this problem but check the thread here at head-fi.

But assuming you can get it calibrated and have a headphone match (which is a must) its virtual surround accuracy is really great and probably the best I have tried yet.


----------



## Find the Door

Switched my HD800S' back to Stereo recently

DAC: SB X7 LE with Sparkos full upgrade
Amp: Schiit Jotunheim

Huge difference going back to stero honestly and really brings out the wow of the HD800S.  No SBX or Dolby enabled.  In fact I'm using pass through via my optical out on my TV instead now so I can easily use all my smart features.  TV can pass through anything really but ultimately stereo beings back a ton of bass and precise directionality out of the HD800S.

To me personally I feel like SBX and down mixing Dolby makes the HD800S sound cheap and costs a lot of detail in the process.


----------



## stavros.m (Mar 11, 2019)

illram said:


> If you have one of the headphones on their list of headphones in the app, and if you game on the PC, yes I highly recommend it.
> 
> Be aware that you need an Android device to perform the calibration and that some people are having issues with Windows doing weird stuff to the USB audio drivers when it updates the firmware, making it sound way worse than it should. I have not had this problem but check the thread here at head-fi.
> 
> But assuming you can get it calibrated and have a headphone match (which is a must) its virtual surround accuracy is really great and probably the best I have tried yet.


Hey thanks i will double check i got a dt 990 i am sure i saw that in the list, and i game mostly on pc\ps4 lately more ps4. Would you recommend the amp more then the headset

thanks


----------



## mindbomb

Find the Door said:


> Switched my HD800S' back to Stereo recently
> 
> DAC: SB X7 LE with Sparkos full upgrade
> Amp: Schiit Jotunheim
> ...



Well, using just regular stereo, you only have 2 directions, left and right. You then have to use your other senses to fill in the blanks. With sbx surround on a surround sound input, you can have front and back as well.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 11, 2019)

Audiosciencereview did measurements on the g6. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...w-and-measurements-of-sound-blasterx-g6.7016/

The performance was pretty good for the dac and the headphone amp - there is no need to daisy chain another dac or headphone amp with it imo. The dynamic range of the dac was actually freakishly good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hah, so apparently someone in Russia hacked into my Origin account, and played a ton of Apex Legends, and tried to buy some stuff for both APex and Titanfall 2. My friends list on Origin had like 50 people... and I can tell you guys, I play basically all PC games alone, and never had anyone on Origin that I can remember of.

I had a hell of a time checking that nothing else was compromised, and adding 2 step verifications to all game programs, emails, paypal, etc.

Long story short, the internet is scary, nothing is secure, and make sure you check all the things you sign into periodically. My Origin was something I would log into like every few months, so the hacker had free reign for months.

In other news, having bought played Division alone a few weeks ago for like $4, it made me more interested in the sequel, so I went a preordered it. It gave me Ghost Recon Wildlands for free. So yeah, I'll be trying those on PC in a few days. Destiny 2 has been a massive disappointment lately with the newer DLCs and I wanna play something continuous. I wanted Anthem to be that game, but then Anthem came out and... no thanks, lol.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Glad you got your account back. I got Division 2 through the AMD Ryzen bundle. Played Division 1 pretty much alone back then with the exception of missions which were fun with others. Really liked the atmosphere, graphics, gameplay. 

On another note: My G6 received a new firmware yesterday. Haven't checked about it yet. It's probably the beta firmware gone final.


----------



## Clean6eR

Fegefeuer said:


> Glad you got your account back. I got Division 2 through the AMD Ryzen bundle. Played Division 1 pretty much alone back then with the exception of missions which were fun with others. Really liked the atmosphere, graphics, gameplay.
> 
> On another note: My G6 received a new firmware yesterday. Haven't checked about it yet. It's probably the beta firmware gone final.


the beta firmware was good, the ability to adjust the surround effect was like that on the x7 which gives you more control and the ability to turn off all the mic filters lets a high quality mic really shine.

if you turn all the surround and processing off the mic monitor is usable without making you fall over your own words which is a total win! very impressed, next dream is the ability to add surround but not have it apply to the mic monitor!


----------



## Find the Door

mindbomb said:


> Well, using just regular stereo, you only have 2 directions, left and right. You then have to use your other senses to fill in the blanks. With sbx surround on a surround sound input, you can have front and back as well.



Every pair of headphones has two drivers unless you're using garbogio multi-driver headsets. R6 siege is designed around stereo usage as is.  I was a big proponent of simulated surround sound but I've been won over by straight stereo over the last week.

SBX/Dolby neuter the other wise excellent imaging of the HD-800-S'.


----------



## illram (Mar 13, 2019)

I use the HD800S and I never found that to be the case. The imaging is there, it just makes the flaws more apparent. If there are flaws. I think they are excellent with SBX. Maybe it's my amp? (Black Label). Although I don't know why the amp would really make a difference with the imaging quality.


----------



## ciukacz

Find the Door said:


> R6 siege is designed around stereo usage as is.  I was a big proponent of simulated surround sound but I've been won over by straight stereo over the last week.
> 
> SBX/Dolby neuter the other wise excellent imaging of the HD-800-S'.



well doesn't r6 have it's own hrtf builtin? in that case you would be using 2 hrtfs which is wrong.


----------



## b0r0b

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hah, so apparently someone in Russia hacked into my Origin account, and played a ton of Apex Legends, and tried to buy some stuff for both APex and Titanfall 2. My friends list on Origin had like 50 people... and I can tell you guys, I play basically all PC games alone, and never had anyone on Origin that I can remember of.
> 
> I had a hell of a time checking that nothing else was compromised, and adding 2 step verifications to all game programs, emails, paypal, etc.
> 
> ...



LOL Anthem. I haven't really looked into the Division sequel, but I may. I went through a security binge a few years ago, feels good when you lock everything down. People are too careless online.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 13, 2019)

Find the Door said:


> Every pair of headphones has two drivers unless you're using garbogio multi-driver headsets. R6 siege is designed around stereo usage as is.  I was a big proponent of simulated surround sound but I've been won over by straight stereo over the last week.
> 
> SBX/Dolby neuter the other wise excellent imaging of the HD-800-S'.



Okay, let me explain what the point of virtual 7.1 for headphones is. With regular stereo audio, there is only 2 native directions, left and right. Thus, the front-rear dimension isn't handled great. With virtual surround sound, you feed it a surround sound source where the front and rear are kept in discrete channels. Then it can add a front hrtf to the front channels, and a rear hrtf to the rear channels before combining everything into 2 channels, making that dimension better represented on headphones.

I have a little demonstration here that compares the directional information you get on stereo with no hrtf vs with 7.1 dolby headphone dh2:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...ana-trio-added.534479/page-2801#post-14792417


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 13, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> well doesn't r6 have it's own hrtf builtin? in that case you would be using 2 hrtfs which is wrong.



It does not appear to have any. Here is a screenshot of the audio settings I found online, showing no hrtf setting: https://i.redd.it/c398fvwzif5z.jpg

And if you check streamers on twitch, you can hear that the audio has no hrtf


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2019)

Find the Door said:


> Every pair of headphones has two drivers unless you're using garbogio multi-driver headsets. R6 siege is designed around stereo usage as is.  I was a big proponent of simulated surround sound but I've been won over by straight stereo over the last week.
> 
> SBX/Dolby neuter the other wise excellent imaging of the HD-800-S'.


 Well there's give and take by going straight stereo.

If you're not using virtual surround, you're getting to hear your headphone as it sounds... like the headphone it is.

When you use virtual surround, you're listening to the headphone emulate a room full of speakers. It isn't supposed to sound anything like what you expect from the headphone.

It is this distinct difference that people STILL keep failing to understand. When you use virtual surround, you have to understand that you're no longer listening to headphones. You're getting a representation of a room full of speakers done by those headphones. They're gonna sound COMPLETELY different.

A more proper comparison is a headphone with virtual surround vs a room with 7 speakers. That is the most COMPARABLE uhh...comparison.

To the people complaining about how virtual surround changes how headphones sound. Well, that is because it's no longer supposed to sound LIKE HEADPHONES.

With that out of the way, you can make a choice:

a. Stick to stereo, where the fidelity is higher, and your headphones sound as they were intended. Drawback being no front/rear indication, which vastly limits your perception of the virtual space and where sounds are actually coming from relative to your 'character' in video games.

b. Go with virtual surround, where your headphone is figuratively transformed into a room full of speakers, with all the benefits of being able to hear where sounds are coming from in any direction, without the expense of actually having a speaker setup. Drawback being that objectively, the sound quality is altered in a significant way from what a headphone was originally intended to sound like.

I will always call it nonsense to anyone who says stereo gives better positional advantage over virtual surround. There is nothing better than getting an accurate representation of where a sound is coming from, as if the sound was actually being played in front or behind you. All stereo can do try and make a sound seem different in tone between front and back, and actually not being able to move the sound in the virtual space to account for the front/back.

Thankfully, more and more games have built in virtual surround options, Xbox has Atmos, etc. These things are making virtual surround more and more common, which is a benefit to all.

And as always, it's best to stick to plain stereo for nearly any stereo source like music, and any other source that wasn't made with surround in mind.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> It does not appear to have any. Here is a screenshot of the audio settings I found online, showing no hrtf setting: https://i.redd.it/c398fvwzif5z.jpg
> 
> And if you check streamers on twitch, you can hear that the audio has no hrtf



well they are doing something different, because there is a little verticality here:


----------



## Fegefeuer

MLE put it very well. 

It's the sound rendering that should help to immerse you in the world, not primarily the headphone itself. People might tell themselves that SBX and GSX are hindering the technical ability of their headphone, yet it's their approach to the medium that is wrong. 
Do you want to be in the world, in the environment, aurally and visually or do you want to listen to the capabilites of your headphone? The headphone should be a (unnoticable) bridge to a great aural experience. 

Back in 1998 when I had Aureal 3D I knew this is what headphones needed to overcome their limitations and it was an outstanding experience. Coming from a household with massive American made speakers (which my father imported like the great madman he was) headphones did have a lot of odds against them.
The approach of A3D back then was the same as it is today. "Natural sound localization". Hardpanning stereo gaming is not natural at all. Sure, the virtualization of 7.1 discrete channels can skew the the naturalness of the recording itself a bit but this was always a compromise. Natural sound localization even with a
virtual speaker room that lacks elevation info is superior to simple stereo. The brain can't compensate enough, no matter how much visual cues you get displayed.

And from virtual 7.1 we are back to proper binaural rendering with geometric data, thanks to VR and the cinema. From there on everything will be better.

I'd take a CAL with great object-based audio over hardpanning stereo gaming with the HD800. Any day.


----------



## Find the Door

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well there's give and take by going straight stereo.
> 
> If you're not using virtual surround, you're getting to hear your headphone as it sounds... like the headphone it is.
> 
> ...



Right well in this instance would it be recommended to use Dolby Digital or stereo with SBX?  Also if you're using Dolby would it be recommend to use SBX?


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 14, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> well they are doing something different, because there is a little verticality here:



That's not hrtf, that's environmental effects. So glass doesn't muffle the sound because there is line of sight to the player, but the other walls do. Imo, this isn't even good to have, since it just reduces how much the audio can help you, and increases cpu usage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2019)

Find the Door said:


> Right well in this instance would it be recommended to use Dolby Digital or stereo with SBX?  Also if you're using Dolby would it be recommend to use SBX?



This isn't so much a recommendation as it is a REQUIREMENT. virtual surround devices REQUIRE Dolby Digital in the console space and a 5 to 7 speaker configuration in the Windows panel on PC. If you're feeding SBX a stereo signal, you're 100% doing it wrong which is why it would sound absolutely incorrect.

No DTS, no PCM. It 100% must be Dolby Digital when not using a PC.

On PC, windows MUST be set to 5 speakers or 7 speakers.


----------



## ciukacz

mindbomb said:


> That's not hrtf, that's environmental effects. So glass doesn't muffle the sound because there is line of sight to the player, but the other walls do. Imo, this isn't even good to have, since it just reduces how much the audio can help you, and increases cpu usage.



not hrtf but they modify spectral content similarly to how a hrtf does it.
did you notice that when the player turn his back to the helicopter all highs are attenuated like most hrtfs do?
apply that twice and... ugh.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 14, 2019)

ciukacz said:


> not hrtf but they modify spectral content similarly to how a hrtf does it.
> did you notice that when the player turn his back to the helicopter all highs are attenuated like most hrtfs do?
> apply that twice and... ugh.



When we talk about hrtf and binaural audio, we are talking about how each ear hears things differently due to it's different position on the head. It's analogous to vision in vr headsets and 3d movies, where each eye gets a different perspective to create a 3d effect.

In this case, it is just a coincidence that the sound changed when he turned. They were demonstrating how the environment can affect the sound. So when the sound is behind walls, it gets muffled.

If the game actually had hrtf, it would also interfere with the natural hrtf you get from speakers. That's why there always is some warning to use headphones, or the game has an option you can toggle on/off, when there is hrtf available in game.


----------



## Rozzko

Please help me.

Now I have got tritton 720 (using it on ps4 with my headphones meze 99 classics). I am Using it only because need amp my headphones and to get 7.1 virtual surround sound.

Now I can buy creative G6 for a good price. It has a better amp power and better (?) Virtual surround sound.

So , does creative g6 virtual surround will be really better than my tritton 720 reciever? Does I need to change it? 
I will use it only on ps4 , for games and movies. 
Please help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2019)

Guys, can you answer me these
:

Once you own the Atmos license on Xbox, it works with all games that are multi-channel (i.e. not indies that only have stereo mixes), right? I'm asking because I kinda wanna take the XB1S from the living room for a little bit of testing of Atmos, even though my XBL account only has Gears 4 and BF1. I know Gears 4 has Atmos, and BF1 would just mix it to 7.1 virtual surround.

I just need to set the XB1 to Atmos in some sound setting and that's it? I ask because I think I have only played an XB1 for a DAY to check that it was functional with my stepfather's new TV. Other than that, it hardly ever gets used other than for blu-rays.




Rozzko said:


> Please help me.
> 
> Now I have got tritton 720 (using it on ps4 with my headphones meze 99 classics). I am Using it only because need amp my headphones and to get 7.1 virtual surround sound.
> 
> ...



Well, the Tritton Ax720 has Dolby Headphone vs the G6's SBX.

There are pros and cons to both.

AX720:
The Ax720's box has some hiss and noise (last I checked).

Dolby Headphone IMO has better virtual surround in terms of sense of immersion and positional accuracy, HOWEVER, it has some reverb that some people will not like.

If you're used to the AX720 surround, the SBX surround won't be better.



G6:
Much cleaner, quieter, and more powerful internal amp

SBX has much less reverb than Dolby Headphone

Virtual surround on SBX isn't as accurate as Dolby headphone. Still very good, but not AS good, personally

G6 can send SBX virtual surround to another, better dac or amp.


G6 NEEDS a computer in hand to change settings, so I absolutely recommend you have a PC on hand if you plan on getting the G6. I do NOT recommend the G6 if you don't have a PC to change settings. By needing a PC, I mean being able to download software for Windows to be able to adjust G6 settings, as well as download firmware and driver updates for the G6.


If you only plan on using basic headsets and easy to drive headphones, I'd personally just stick with the AX720.

If you are planning an upgrade path where you see yourself buying a good dac and amp in the future, I'd get the G6. Also, if you play on PC ever, you'll need the USB functionality, which the AX720 I don't think has.


----------



## elli0t

Is there any talk of a new Soundblaster X7 model releasing anytime soon? The X7 is 4.5years old, wondering if there's any better/more recent alternatives? Otherwise also considering the SMSL AD18, as I need a speaker+hp amp and DAC. Only use for PC gaming (mainly PUBG) and music. Need to power some small desktop speakers (Audioengine A2's converted to passive). I use both macOS and Windows. Currently using HD598 headphones.


----------



## Trancefreak

Got a Q for you all.

I'm in the long process of building a retro PC and for the moment I just use GOG on Windows 7.
I'd like to use EAX 1-5/HD on Win7, do I need a EAX compatible card to use Alchemy or just a Creative card?
If just a creative card, I can just look out for a 2nd hand X7, if not I'm stuck on finding a motherboard with a PCI slot ( I own a Auzentech Prelude, not installed ).

Thank you.


----------



## Fegefeuer

buy a used X-Fi Titanium


----------



## Trancefreak

Fegefeuer said:


> buy a used X-Fi Titanium


Not saying you're wrong, but If I need to buy a new soundcard, I'd like that juicy X7 . USB, ease of use with headphones, newer drivers, etc.
Thus my question: do I need an X-Fi chip or just any Creative card to use Alchemy?

Thank you


----------



## Fegefeuer

proper EAX, OpenAL in hardware is not possible with the X7, SBZ. It's just not the same with the wrapper. If you want all the retro goodies then go fully retro. Mirror's Edge, Bioshock etc don't sound the same. I owned a X-Fi Titanium simply for these games. 

Since the X-Fi Titanium can output the headphone part to the optical out you could opt for a Modi stack and have some of that juice and even beyond that.


----------



## Trancefreak

Fegefeuer said:


> proper EAX, OpenAL in hardware is not possible with the X7, SBZ. It's just not the same with the wrapper. If you want all the retro goodies then go fully retro. Mirror's Edge, Bioshock etc don't sound the same. I owned a X-Fi Titanium simply for these games.
> 
> Since the X-Fi Titanium can output the headphone part to the optical out you could opt for a Modi stack and have some of that juice and even beyond that.



Awesome! Just the explanation I like to hear. Thank you muchos! 
I am linking up a Modi, good thinking .


----------



## Rozzko

Does some one watching movies and series with virtual surround? (Dolby headphones or SBX)
Or it's just good fit only with games? 

Because today I am watching movie on ps4+tritton 720(Dolby headphones) on my desktop speakers connected to tritton and when I turn on surround sound its come too different from original sound. 

Does anyone using virtual surround sound in movies? An does anyone using it on speakers, or this VSS only for headphones?

Thanks


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, can you answer me these
> :
> 
> Once you own the Atmos license on Xbox, it works with all games that are multi-channel (i.e. not indies that only have stereo mixes), right? I'm asking because I kinda wanna take the XB1S from the living room for a little bit of testing of Atmos, even though my XBL account only has Gears 4 and BF1. I know Gears 4 has Atmos, and BF1 would just mix it to 7.1 virtual surround.
> ...


But all in all does creative g6 giving a better quality of sound in games vs tritton 720 decoder?
Again - my headphones Meze 99 classics, quiet good headphones with good soundstage (for closed back headphones)

P.s. does anyone using IfI Xdsd for ps4? It has option button called 3D sound. Xdsd give very good quality in terms of music listening . Interesting what about ps4


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 17, 2019)

Rozzko said:


> Does some one watching movies and series with virtual surround? (Dolby headphones or SBX)
> Or it's just good fit only with games?
> 
> Because today I am watching movie on ps4+tritton 720(Dolby headphones) on my desktop speakers connected to tritton and when I turn on surround sound its come too different from original sound.
> ...



Only for headphones. This is because vss requires the ability to change sound in each ear independently. When you use speakers, you still hear some of the right speaker in the left ear, and the left speaker in the right ear.

This is also why games with vss have it as optional -  just in case people want to use speakers.


----------



## Rozzko

mindbomb said:


> Only for headphones. This is because vss requires the ability to change sound in each ear independently. When you use speakers, you still hear some of the right speaker in the left ear, and the left speaker in the right ear.
> 
> This is also why games with vss have it as optional -  just in case people want to use speakers.


Thanks .only for headphones, okay!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 17, 2019)

If a movie has Dolby Atmos or Digital, Dolby Headphone and SBX will do the proper virtualvirtual s on headphones.

So DVDs will almost all work, and some Blu-Rays will, though I think most Blu-Rays are encoded in DTS.

PS3 had a way to bitstream Dolby even with a DTS encoded movie, but ps4 doesn't.

Basically, ANYTHING Dolby through ps4 will do proper Dolby Headphone or SBX.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Is the amp in the X7 good enough for the AKG 712s? How is it for music?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If a movie has Dolby Atmos or Digital, Dolby Headphone and SBX will do the proper virtual virtual s on headphones.
> So DVDs will almost all work, and some Blu-Rays will, though I think most Blu-Rays are encoded in DTS.
> PS3 had a way to bitstream Dolby even with a DTS encoded movie, but ps4 doesn't.
> Basically, ANYTHING Dolby through ps4 will do proper Dolby Headphone or SBX.



I found it easier to to use Cyberlinks PowerDVD for all my Blu-ray disks, works great for DVD movies too.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Does some one watching movies and series with virtual surround? (Dolby headphones or SBX)
> Or it's just good fit only with games?
> Because today I am watching movie on ps4+Tritton 720(Dolby headphones) on my desktop speakers connected to Tritton and when I turn on surround sound its come too different from original sound.
> Does anyone using virtual surround sound in movies? An does anyone using it on speakers, or this VSS only for headphones? Thanks


2.0 speakers or 5.1 speakers or other?
Assuming it's 2.0 speakers.
How do you have the Tritton connected to the speaker exactly?
If you put the speakers on your shoulders so they are working like headphones speakers, does the sound improve?
I'm fairly sure surround sound processed for headphones is different from how surround sound would be processed for 2.0 speakers.


----------



## PurpleAngel

RugbyPlayer said:


> Is the amp in the X7 good enough for the AKG 712s? How is it for music?


Do you already own the Creative Labs X7?
Do you already own the AKG K712?


----------



## Find the Door

What are you supposed to set SBX surround to?  I've seen some say 100% for the HD800S that I use


----------



## RugbyPlayer

PurpleAngel said:


> Do you already own the Creative Labs X7?
> Do you already own the AKG K712?


no planning on order the AKG's in a few weeks, trying to figure out what to pair with it for mostly gaming/movies and some music


----------



## Rozzko

Interesting why Sennheiser dont made ps4 support for GSX1000?


----------



## Nemmera

On a totally different note: Damn The Division 2 has some nice HRTF/Binaural feel to it's audio. My teammates' gunshots feeling a bit "thin" is my only complaint.

I keep checking in the room to see if my son or cats are doing some mischief, when it's just some random crap falling over ingame during a gunfight.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Rozzko said:


> Interesting why Sennheiser dont made ps4 support for GSX1000?



The PS4 doesn't output multichannel from the USB port.


----------



## Hannah25 (Mar 22, 2019)

I use the HD800S and I never found that to be the case. The imaging is there, it just makes the flaws more apparent. If there are flaws. I think they are excellent with SBX. Maybe it's my amp? (Black Label). Although I don't know why the amp would really make a difference with the imaging quality.
m.bacc6666


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Find the Door said:


> What are you supposed to set SBX surround to?  I've seen some say 100% for the HD800S that I use



I say 100% because the difference between say 66% and 100% in terms of reverb isn't noticeable, but 100% pushes the positions further away from your ears, making it easier to tell which directions are coming from.  Unlike GSX and Dolby Headphone where going to 100%/Max noticeably degrades the sound quality compared to a more moderate setting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hannah25 said:


> I use the HD800S and I never found that to be the case. The imaging is there, it just makes the flaws more apparent. If there are flaws. I think they are excellent with SBX. Maybe it's my amp? (Black Label). Although I don't know why the amp would really make a difference with the imaging quality.


 An amp can make a considerable difference in soundstage size. I loved the original Schgiit Vali for it's velvety yet sharp sound, but it made the left/right extremes seem closer to my ears than whatever solid state amp I had compared it to at the time (may have been the Magni).


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree. Staging is absolutely a thing with amps. Width, heigh/tallness, depth, black background/cleanliness, how good it handles the drivers (power, attack, decay ettc). They all add up.


----------



## KR1SeS

Nemmera said:


> On a totally different note: Damn The Division 2 has some nice HRTF/Binaural feel to it's audio. My teammates' gunshots feeling a bit "thin" is my only complaint.
> 
> I keep checking in the room to see if my son or cats are doing some mischief, when it's just some random crap falling over ingame during a gunfight.


So The Division 2 does it's own HRTF? If so do you just need to select the "Headphone" profile in the audio settings and make sure any additional hardware or software VSS one might have is disabled?

I've been playing it with the "Home Cinema" profile and Atmos for Headphones and it's good, but not great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 18, 2019)

KR1SeS said:


> So The Division 2 does it's own HRTF? If so do you just need to select the "Headphone" profile in the audio settings and make sure any additional hardware or software VSS one might have is disabled?
> 
> I've been playing it with the "Home Cinema" profile and Atmos for Headphones and it's good, but not great.


I'll have to test. I play Division 2 myself. I've been using GSX.

PC of course.


----------



## KR1SeS (Mar 18, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll have to test. I play Division 2 myself. I've been using GSX.
> 
> PC of course.


I'm on PC as well. I was using Atmos for Headphones and with the "Headphones" profile in game it didn't sound as good as the "Home Cinema" profile. I'm now wondering if this is because the "Headphone" profile already has it's own HRTF and if that's the case I should be comparing the following:

Atmos for Headphones (or any VSS) *off *with The Division 2 audio profile set to "Headphones"
Atmos for Headphones (or any VSS) *on *with The Division 2 audio profile set to "Home Cinema" (or anything other than "Headphones")
Thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 18, 2019)

No, when you use stuff like Atmos, you MUST set games to stuff like Home Cinema. Remember, it's supposed to be taking a home theater setup and turning that into virtual surround. You MUST NOT put games into headphone modes when using virtual surround dsps, like Atmos, SBX, Dolby Headphone, GSX, etc.

As far as the Headphone option in Division 2, it's a far cry from virtual surround. It ain't no Atmos, that's for sure. It's marginally better than just stereo as it projects out front, but rear cues are still within the headspace, at the very least, the front to back audio cues sound very different, so it's definitely useful if you don't have any virtual surround dsps.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 18, 2019)

Usually, what the headphone setting does is tell the game where your speakers are located - like straight to the left and straight to the right, as opposed to speakers, which are front left and front right. This has implications for how the game pans the audio when the player turns. 

Good audio pans help with direction, so this is an important setting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes sense. I never thought of that, and always assumed it was some attempt at making a specific algorithm to make the sound more suited to headphones and appear more dimensional. I'm sure there ARE instances like that, which makes the headphone setting at times like a distinct htrf made for headphones, but what you're saying makes a helluva lot more sense in the grand scheme.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I simply don't get how a studio with Ubisoft's talent and financial power is still incosistent in delivering audio quality and technologies while maintaing high end graphics. Look at those Assassins's Creed Games. Even the latest installment, AC:Odyssey has a sound quality that is from the worse parts of the PS360 era. I'm guessing it's the same for the FC5 which I called "telephone quality" years ago regarding its predecessors. I simply don't get it.

Then you have Capcom who provide Dolby Atmos and their own binaural approach to their latest game, on RE7, Monster Hunter etc.. In defense of Ubisoft DMC5 seems not to have any of that 3D Audio either.
At least EA (I don't play their games since many years) is consistent with good sound on their mainline games. (Battlefield, SWB), at least in regards to sound quality. 

How hard can it be with such talent to provide support for object based audio in (highly successful) games that would hugely benefit from it? (Wildlands, Division 2)


----------



## Nemmera

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, when you use stuff like Atmos, you MUST set games to stuff like Home Cinema. Remember, it's supposed to be taking a home theater setup and turning that into virtual surround. You MUST NOT put games into headphone modes when using virtual surround dsps, like Atmos, SBX, Dolby Headphone, GSX, etc.
> 
> As far as the Headphone option in Division 2, it's a far cry from virtual surround. It ain't no Atmos, that's for sure. It's marginally better than just stereo as it projects out front, but rear cues are still within the headspace, at the very least, the front to back audio cues sound very different, so it's definitely useful if you don't have any virtual surround dsps.



Maybe I've been too amazed by the "random feel of surround" using headphone mode and not critically analyzed how it does surround.

What are your thoughts on Atmos with Home Cinema setting in TD2 then? I saw some reports of people's sound cutting out when playing it with Atmos enabled, so I steered clear initially.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2019)

Nemmera said:


> Maybe I've been too amazed by the "random feel of surround" using headphone mode and not critically analyzed how it does surround.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Atmos with Home Cinema setting in TD2 then? I saw some reports of people's sound cutting out when playing it with Atmos enabled, so I steered clear initially.


The sound is UNDENIABLY messed up in TD2 no matter what you use. A lot of sounds, voices, etc are outright missing, even when the subtitles are going a mile a minute. They screwed the pooch in terms of sounds atm.

I'm gonna stop testing Atmos on PC because I still feel my PC is not doing it right. It's like the room size/surround size is like at 10% instead of a moderate 50/65% or so. Better than stereo and whatnot, but I really think having done all those internal system settings with Hesuvi all that time ago messed my system up.

I say that because every demo I see of Atmos online sounds more like a virtual surround I expect.

At the very least the important stuff like enemies, shots, and sound effects are all fine in terms of the game not having those muted. It's more like part of the world ambience is messed up in this game.


----------



## Vader2k

New driver and firmware released for the Sound BlasterX G6 today.  Both can be found *HERE*.  

From the reddit post where I saw this mentioned, here's the list of fixes / updates:

*Software:*

Fix BSOD issue with certain USB hubs and connections
Improve G6 page load time after hotplug
Add controls for Noise Reduction, Acoustic Echo Cancellation and SmartVol for microphone input
Add Voice Enhancer for microphone input
Fix Speaker test not working in Russian language
Fix incorrect Speaker test sounds in Korean and Polish
Fix Cannot play Speaker Channel Test
Fix Microphone page not appearing after HotPlug
Unable to turn off LED indicator for Direct mode and Volume Control
Reorganize Menu system for easy access
*Firmware:*

Improved Surround, SmartVol, Dialog+ effects
Improved microphone recording quality and latency *
Improved respond time when switching modes
Add controls for Noise Reduction, Acoustic Echo Cancellation and SmartVol for microphone input
Add Voice Enhancer for microphone input
Fix Clicking/popping noise when playing 32bit audio
Fix Scout/SBX/Direct mode status not syncing with software in certain conditions
Fix Dolby Digital decoding stops working in certain conditions
Fix Device not detected when switching modes
Fix Device disconnect during power up
Fix Direct mode status not updated when triggered through button
Fix Mic recording related issues caused by certain events
* turn off all Mic related processing/effects for sidetone latency fix

I haven't downloaded yet, but looks like a nice list of improvements!


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Vader2k said:


> New driver and firmware released for the Sound BlasterX G6 today.  Both can be found *HERE*.
> 
> From the reddit post where I saw this mentioned, here's the list of fixes / updates:
> 
> ...



A source selector on the fly, without having to disconnect or resort to the SBX software would be great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know what's ironic? I JUST checked the site yesterday since I hadn't used it in awhile and updated it yesterday. Lol. So here we go again...


----------



## Find the Door

X7 also got an update Feb 21st no one posted it


----------



## vloshko

I never posted this to this thread (first post), though I'm sure I let MLE know at some point. Anyway, I posted this thread in my steam guide.


----------



## mindbomb

vloshko said:


> I never posted this to this thread (first post), though I'm sure I let MLE know at some point. Anyway, I posted this thread in my steam guide.



On bit depth, I will suggest 24 bit, because it can help under some circumstances, but it won't hurt. The selection here determines the final conversion from a 32 bit intermediate format, so you aren't preventing an upconversion by selecting 16 bit. But using 16 bit can hurt you if you are using a very low volume level in windows. Let's say you have a motherboard that can do 105db dynamic range in 24 bit mode, and 96 db in 16 bit (the maximum for 16 bit). And then let's say this motherboard happens to output a high voltage on the headphone jack, and you use IEMs or something so you end up using 5% volume in windows. 5% volume in windows is around -45db (the scaling is weird). This means you are going to lose 45db off your dynamic range. So with the 16 bit setting, you are down to 51db dynamic range, but 60db with 24 bit. It's a modest improvement that is nice to have. This applies even for 16 bit starting material.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys ok, so testing the G6 today, it does seem to output Dolby Digital to the optical out. I have it set to SPDIF Direct, and my PC setting the G6 to 7 speakers

This is noteworthy, because last I remember, it DIDN'T send Dolby Digital through the spdif output.

By that, I mean that now I'm able to get Dolby Headphone from my Mixamp 5.8 while it is attached to the G6. This is significant for me, because otherwise, I wouldn't be able to get DD from my PC with just the Mixamp 5.8.

So either I had it set up wrong, or at some point the G6 passed didn't pass Dolby through the optical out at some point.


----------



## meganeet

im a noob on this so please bear with me
so i purchased the G6 along with my logitech z906, i was hoping to send VSS from g6's optical out to z906's optical in but that doesn't seem to work, because z906 will apply the 3d effect on the signal to activate all speakers, and it doesn't seem like there's anyway to turn off this 3d surround effect on the z906, it just activates automatically, so i'm back to using analog output from my pc's onboard sound, and just wondering if there's any way to get G6 to output 5.1 surround to speakers?
when you say DD is passed to the optical out, you are talking about PC content that's already in DD? because i thought you would need DDL for that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 21, 2019)

meganeet said:


> im a noob on this so please bear with me
> so i purchased the G6 along with my logitech z906, i was hoping to send VSS from g6's optical out to z906's optical in but that doesn't seem to work, because z906 will apply the 3d effect on the signal to activate all speakers, and it doesn't seem like there's anyway to turn off this 3d surround effect on the z906, it just activates automatically, so i'm back to using analog output from my pc's onboard sound, and just wondering if there's any way to get G6 to output 5.1 surround to speakers?
> when you say DD is passed to the optical out, you are talking about PC content that's already in DD? because i thought you would need DDL for that



I MAY BE wrong, though I'm gonna assume I'm correct based on my testing a few days ago:

Forst and foremost, update the drivers and software of the G6 to the latest versions which came out yesterday. This MAY have actually enabled multi-channel out through the spdif. It may have happened before, but do it to be safe.

If you wanna pass JUST 5.1/7.1 so that your external device reads the signal as multi channel audio (no processing), make sure you have the G6 software under setup on Spdif direct, and also, make sure bit and sampling rate is set to at the most 24bit/48khz. (this is changed within the windows audio panel itself i.e. clicking on the speaker icon on the taskbar and going into those properties for the G6.)

 The G6 is capable of 32 bit/and WELL ABOVE 48khz, but if you want multi channel audio, you must NOT go higher than 48khz, as that is the limit for 5 to 7 speakers. This is what you want if you just want your headset to do its OWN virtual surround. This is how I'm getting Dolby Headphone to work properly on my Mixamp 5.8 that is attached to the G6.

I'll try and re-test in the morning and re-edit this to be more correct, as I'm going off memory at the moment.

I see the Z906 is a speaker system, so you want the G6 to be in spdif direct mode. You do NOT want the G6's SBX VSS to be enabled on the G6 for the Z906. You just need it to send a straight 5.1/7.1 signal. Again, go to Windows audio panel, and set the bit depth/sampling rate to 24bit /48khz.

Please let me know how it turns out.


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I MAY BE wrong, though I'm gonna assume I'm correct based on my testing a few days ago:
> 
> Forst and foremost, update the drivers and software of the G6 to the latest versions which came out yesterday. This MAY have actually enabled multi-channel out through the spdif. It may have happened before, but do it to be safe.
> 
> ...



thanks for the quick feedback i will try at home asap
but one question, i thought in order to send 5.1/7.1 through spdif the signal needs to be encoded? since spdif does not have enough bandwidth to carry multi channel audio
under this assumption, if i use the optical out from G6 to my Z906, wouldn't Z906 simply see the signal as stereo? thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

What makes you think spdif doesn't have the bandwidth for multi channel audio? Hahaha. Long before hdmi, spdif was the main way to get multi channel audio. It can't do UNCOMPRESSED HD multi channel audio.

Spdif/optical interfaces have done Dolby Digital and DTS for a very long time.


----------



## Find the Door

I have an LG E7 Oled that I pass through my DD 5.1 through via HDMI then optical to x7 LE

Did the firmware update today for the x7 and no more popping on 5.1 that I was getting for the longest


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

To add, spdif supporting and not supporting multi channel is device specific. There are some devices and thingst like tvs that only do stereo through the spdif out. That may be where the confusion lies. Lots of audiophile gear only do stereo because those devices weren't built with home theater setups in mind. Just stereo or headphones.


----------



## Find the Door

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Assuming the device in question supported it. There are audiophile devices and tvs that only do stereo through the spdif. That may be where the confusion lies.



Well the x7 shows DD logo illuminated when passing through


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

Find the Door said:


> Well the x7 shows DD logo illuminated when passing through


Sorry that was referring to meganeet's post. Edited to make more sense.


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What makes you think spdif doesn't have the bandwidth for multi channel audio? Hahaha. Long before hdmi, spdif was the main way to get multi channel audio. It can't do UNCOMPRESSED HD multi channel audio.
> 
> Spdif/optical interfaces have done Dolby Digital and DTS for a very long time.



yes that was what i meant, so G6 already compresses the multi channel stream in its optical out? but i thought you would need DDL or DTS connect for that?
sorry but i'm just very confused, since my knowledge on surround technology is very basic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

meganeet said:


> yes that was what i meant, so G6 already compresses the multi channel stream in its optical out? but i thought you would need DDL or DTS connect for that?
> sorry but i'm just very confused, since my knowledge on surround technology is very basic



It's ok. Well, the G6 does have Dolby decoding, since it needs to read Dolby Digital coming from consoles like the PS4/Xbox to do SBX through the spdif input.

Where I'm personally not 100% on is whether it takes a basic multi-channel source like a PC and encode that into Dolby Digital, so that the G6 can then read it and transform into SBX as well as send a Dolby signal to its spdif out. I say this because there's no other way the Mixamp 5.8 could get Dolby Digital from my PC. Since my Mixamp is attached to the G6, it obviously means I'm getting DD from the G6.


The Mixamp ABSOLUTELY does not read basic multi channel and convert that into Dolby Headphone. It NEEDS Dolby Digital. If you give it basic 5.1, it won't do proper Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The only way to be certain my assumption is true is if someone else has a G6, sets it to 5 or 7 speakers in the software and spdif direct and attached a device that has a Dolby Digital light confirmation.

I don't have one at the moment.


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's ok. Well, the G6 does have Dolby decoding, since it needs to read Dolby Digital coming from consoles like the PS4/Xbox to do SBX through the spdif input.
> 
> Where I'm personally not 100% on is whether it takes a basic multi-channel source like a PC and encode that into Dolby Digital, so that the G6 can then read it and transform into SBX as well as send a Dolby signal to its spdif out. I say this because there's no other way the Mixamp 5.8 could get Dolby Digital from my PC. Since my Mixamp is attached to the G6, it obviously means I'm getting DD from the G6.
> 
> ...



ahh i see, then i will give it more tests, if it does pass through an encoded dolby digital signal then the dolby digital decode light on my z906 should turn on
i guess maybe G6 did not pay for the DDL and DTS connect license so they don't advertise it?
another question is i saw some people mentioning when using DDL or DTS connect encoding, there will be a slight latency especially in games, is this claim true? would i be better off just using analog out from my onboard sound card to my 5.1 setup? thanks sir


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If there is latency, it's not noticeable. Otherwise, that'd be a huge problem. At least it ain't a problem for me.


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If there is latency, it's not noticeable. Otherwise, that'd be a huge problem. At least it ain't a problem for me.


hello sir, so i did everything you asked to try to get it working but unfortunately i cannot get the DD light confirmation
i updated the firmware and connect software to the latest, i changed the bit and sampling to 24/48, i switched to spdif direct, and did all sorts of combinations between 5.1/7.1, sbx on/off, and apply effects to optical out on/off. at first i thought it might be my z906 not recognizing the DD, so i used a DSS2 to test and still nothing, i thought maybe my DSS2 is broke so i connected it to my ps4 and DD light turned on right away
please let me know what else i should try, thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

So I tried to pipe the G6's own output from its optical out to its optical in, and the G6 lights for Dolby isn't lighting up.

So now I'm all sorts of confused. I have operated under the notion that Mixanps didn't like anything but Dolby Digital or DD Pro Logic II in order to get proper virtual surround. But I'm here playing Division 2 with the G6 piping audio (SBX OFF) to the Mixamp, and turning on the DH button, and sure as rain, the virtual surround cues are spot as expected of a proper DH implementation.

So I don't know what to think.

I can't find my Xonar U3 to do Dolby Headphone through it and compare, so I just don't know...

WHAT signal is my Mixamp interpreting that is allowing it to sound correct?

I'm gonna have to try another game...


----------



## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I MAY BE wrong, though I'm gonna assume I'm correct based on my testing a few days ago:
> 
> Forst and foremost, update the drivers and software of the G6 to the latest versions which came out yesterday. This MAY have actually enabled multi-channel out through the spdif. It may have happened before, but do it to be safe.
> 
> ...



In the bolded statements above, I know you're referring to output over SPDIF-Direct.  I just want to confirm, though, that when using the G6 and SBX, either with headphones directly connected to the G6, or the SBX mix being piped out via the line out, will 32bit/96kHz be ok to use with consoles/PC, or is 24bit/48kHz a better choice in those situations too?

Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

Vader2k said:


> In the bolded statements above, I know you're referring to output over SPDIF-Direct.  I just want to confirm, though, that when using the G6 and SBX, either with headphones directly connected to the G6, or the SBX mix being piped out via the line out, will 32bit/96kHz be ok to use with consoles/PC, or is 24bit/48kHz a better choice in those situations too?
> 
> Thanks.



For some reason I thought that when you used 32bit, it wouldn't allow for 7 speaker configurations. That was my mistake. 32bit is fine. It was sampling rate than can limit the choice of how many speakers the G6 can output to, not the bit depth. I also made another error. 7 channels isn't limited to 48khz sampling rate. It is limited to 96khz. I apologize. This is why I said I may have been wrong, as I was going off memory and not at home to do the proper testing at the time. That being said, the G6 DOES go all the way up to 384khz in stereo. If the G6 is set to two speakers/stereo, the windows panel will pick up many more sampling rates (up to 384khz).







So when setting up the G6 for 7 speakers/SBX, do not go higher than 32/96khz.

Sigh, I'm not certain why the Mixamp can do virtual surround right when attached to the G6. I'm stumped or I'm hearing things. This is why I diodn't wanna state that the G6 did Dolby Digital through the spdif out as fact.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

I think I also got confused with the devices, as I know the Sennheiser GSX1000 is very limited in bit depth and sampling rate compared to the G6. I think it can only do 16/48 at max when using 7 speaker setting, but can do 24/96 when set to stereo.

Now to test other games with this questionable virtual surround coming off the Mixamp from the G6.

So I changed games, and headphones. it sounds like Dolby Headphone to me. So I dunno what to say. I don't think there will be many people that need Dolby Digital from the G6's spdif out, or plan on attaching another headphone virtual surround device to the G6 (since it's admittedly redundant), but there you have it. I can neither confirm nor deny whether the G6 is doing DD 5.1 through the optical out when set to spdif direct and the G6 is set to 7 speakers (SBX off, of course). My logic wants to say no. My ears are saying that MAYBE, due to the testing conclusion that the Mixamp is doing what sounds like Dolby Headphone to me).

I do vaguely remember testing this but with the G6 taking from a Dolby Digital encoded source through the spdif in, and it NOT passing Dolby Digital through the output. So it is weird that the USB would, if it does.

So testing the PS4 with its obvious Dolby Digital output, I can clearly hear the difference between the Mixamp getting DD directly vs getting a signal from the G6.

So in the case of the G6 getting a proper Dolby Digital signal through its optical in, no it absolutely does not pass that through, which leads me to believe I'm wrong about the USB as well, and my mind is playing tricks on me and Dolby Headphone really is that good even on an improper signal. I don't even know anymore. I would, if I had my Xonar U3 which is frustratingly missing.

In that case @meganeet I'm sorry but I don't think you'll be able to use the G6 in your case for your Z906 speaker setup.


----------



## mindbomb

@Mad Lust Envy 

ciukacz and I had a back and forth before where we wondered what the deal was with the 2.0 downmix on the g6. It turned out it was using a dolby prologic II downmix, so if you use it with a dpl II decoder, you can get back a 5.1 signal. And then you can use that surround sound for input to dolby headphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> ciukacz and I had a back and forth before where we wondered what the deal was with the 2.0 downmix on the g6. It turned out it was using a dolby prologic II downmix, so if you use it with a dpl II decoder, you can get back a 5.1 signal. And then you can use that surround sound for input to dolby headphone.



Really? NO WONDER. I always thought the Pro Logic II mix turned into Dolby Headphone was actually not that bad. It's the only way the PS2 and Nintendo Wii were able to get virtual surround, and they sounded great. Not as good as a proper Dolby Digital to DH conversion, but good enough.

If this is true, then it's no wonder why I was fooled.

Thanks for giving me this possibility. Now I won't be going crazy.

That being said, that's such an odd decision to include that on the G6.

Edit: YES, I FOUND MY XONAR U3. Now I can use DH on my PC by sending that signal through the optical out to my Mixamp 5.8. I prefer DH over SBX, personally.


----------



## Cesarlo (Mar 23, 2019)

I may be reading the last few pages completely wrong, so apologies in advance if this is a stupid question, but I use the G6 with my PS4. I've been using 7.1 and Audio Effects.

Should I switch to SPDIF-Out Direct?

Just want to double check and make sure I'm getting the best possible setup.

I do like the G6, but X7 seemed a lot more straight forward than this.

Thank you for any help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The spdif out is for when you wanna use another DAC or home theater receiver. It doesn't affect you otherwise, and you'll not wanna do that if you're actually using the G6. I was doing it because I was using another dac/amp with its own technologies.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 24, 2019)

I was playing the original 1993 doom with the qzdoom source port. I was surprised to find that it had surround sound. It is absolutely surreal to play a game this old with great positional audio.


----------



## mikerrr

Because i am interesting to buy the dt990 pro for gaming does anyone have these headphones for to tell me his experiences in gaming?



how the dt990 pro are hearing in gaming?



WHAT IS YOUR OPINION FOR DT990 Pro? is it worth to buy for gaming and music?



what rate you would put for the music which i hear? trance, house, psy trance, techno, deep house, chill out,, drumerbase,, uplifting trance?.. techno trance, electro,dubstep, trap,hardstyle?

what rate you would put for 0 to 10?

HOW MUCH YOU WOULD RATE THE DT990 PRO FOR gaming ?_

look because i am playing different genres in gaming like

Action games Action-adventure games Adventure games Role-playing games Simulation games Strategy games Sports games Puzzle games Idle games

Shooter

Fighting

Survival

] Action-Adventure Games

MMORPG

I MEAN in all these genres of game which i am playing will the dt990 pro will be very good?/





HyperX Cloud Alpha

HyperX Cloud II

HyperX Cloud Flight

Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO

Sennheiser HD 58X

Samson SR850

CoolerMaster MH751

HyperX Cloud Flight,,

Sennheiser G4ME OnLogitech G933 Artemis Spectrume, Corsair VOID Pro RGB Wireless Carbon,,

Creative Sound Blasterx H7 Tournament,, SteelSeries Arctis Pro + GameDAC??

Asus ROG Strix Wireless Gaming Headset??and etc?

Razer Nari Ultimate

Audeze Mobius Copper all these gaming headphones are better from dt990 pro in gaming my friend>?







what rate you put for dt990 pro for gaming like details,, bass,, soundstage, Sound:,,Bass:,,Mids:,Treble:,Positioning:,Clarity:?? and etc?

from 0-10 for the gaming? in dt990 prO?


----------



## mikerrr

also for you which are the best 10 headphones for gaming in the budget in 120-300 euros max from the best to worst if you rate them?


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Really? NO WONDER. I always thought the Pro Logic II mix turned into Dolby Headphone was actually not that bad. It's the only way the PS2 and Nintendo Wii were able to get virtual surround, and they sounded great. Not as good as a proper Dolby Digital to DH conversion, but good enough.
> 
> If this is true, then it's no wonder why I was fooled.
> 
> ...



thanks for trying to figure everything, it's driving me nuts too lol
however, if it is indeed Pro Logic II, how would G6 have an option to send a 7.1 mix over the spdif? because i thought Pro Logic II can only do 5.1 channels? and Pro Logic IIx is only a decoder and not an encoder (pls correct me if i'm wrong)
and is there a possibility that spdif direct simply sends a unaltered 2 channel PCM signal? since dolby headphone can also decode 2 channel signal 
another question about the term "audio effects" that G6 uses in the software, is it only referring to the EQ and misc settings, or does it actually include the VSS processing as well? the reason for this question is it sounds to me to get the assumed Pro Logic II encode to work, maybe we have to select audio effects option instead of spdif direct?
i just wish creative had better documentations for this instead of so much trial and error from us


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 24, 2019)

Well usually the 7 channel output is just 5 channels with 2 'virtual channels' created from the mixture of the other speakers. This is why there really isn't much of a difference between 5 channels and 7 channels in terms of virtual surround. You are correct in that spdif out technically does not do 7 channels.

I don't think it's unaltered 2 channel PCM through the spdif direct' option because I was definitely getting some Dolby Headphone levels of virtual surround from my headphones. That can only happen if the Mixamp receives Dolby Digital or Pro Logic II. If not, it would all sound like extended and reverb enhanced stereo.

The term audio effects in the G6 software simply means that using that mode will keep all the enhanced sound settings that the G6 uses, like EQ, SBX, Crystallizer, etc. Just remember that even in Audio Effects mode, all those things can simply be turned off.

Direct = analog out with no effects applied for say, attaching another amplifier or powered speakers.

Spdif direct = same thing as the normal direct but for a digital signal like to another dac or receiver.

You can basically get the audio effect option to sound unaltered like the direct option by just tunring off all the enhancements in the G6 software. No eq, no SBX, etc.

Spdif direct would carry Pro Logic II because it's not using the G6 'effects'. It's simply carrying a multi channel encoding in the form of Pro Logic II (if it indeed is PLII, which I think it is).


If I ever get in contact with Creative again, I'll ask them directly whether the spdif out is capable of DPLII, DD, etc. Though usually my very technical questions are outside the scope of my contact's knowledge.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know how we would know whether the G6 does PLII or not through the spdif out?






The rare and elusive Victor SU-DH1. I forgot if it lights up when it picks up the signal, or if it's an option. Been a very long time since I was loaned one.


----------



## meganeet

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You know how we would know whether the G6 does PLII or not through the spdif out?
> 
> The rare and elusive Victor SU-DH1. I forgot if it lights up when it picks up the signal, or if it's an option. Been a very long time since I was loaned one.



that would be brilliant if we could get a definitive answer

but another curiosity is if G6 really is using Pro Logic II encoding, why didn't they simply go with Dolby Digital Live?
Is it because G6 also has analog line out, so Pro Logic II can possibly pass a encoded 5.1 signal through analog for another device for decoding, whereas Dolby Digital 5.1 can only be passed through SPDIF?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That could be the reason. I wouldn't doubt the possibility. PLII can pass through both analog and digital, while DD can't. Another good point I hadn't considered.


----------



## mindbomb

@Mad Lust Envy 

Without dolby headphone or sbx surround enabled, run a 7.1 speaker test. If you hear that the surround channels on the left side have elements on the right side, and vice versa, it is a good chance there is some type of matrix encoding like dolby pro logic.


----------



## AppleheadMay

OMG IT'S BACK!   ;P


----------



## Fegefeuer

mikerrr said:


> Because i am interesting to buy the dt990 pro for gaming does anyone have these headphones for to tell me his experiences in gaming?
> 
> how the dt990 pro are hearing in gaming?



they are what I would describe as *GOOD*



mikerrr said:


> WHAT IS YOUR OPINION FOR DT990 Pro? is it worth to buy for gaming and music?



yes, they are *GOOD*



mikerrr said:


> what rate you would put for the music which i hear? trance, house, psy trance, techno, deep house, chill out,, drumerbase,, uplifting trance?.. techno trance, electro,dubstep, trap,hardstyle?
> what rate you would put for 0 to 10?



7/10 so* GOOD*



mikerrr said:


> HOW MUCH YOU WOULD RATE THE DT990 PRO FOR gaming ?_
> look because i am playing different genres in gaming like
> Action games Action-adventure games Adventure games Role-playing games Simulation games Strategy games Sports games Puzzle games Idle games
> 
> I MEAN in all these genres of game which i am playing will the dt990 pro will be very good?



only *GOOD* but good enough




mikerrr said:


> what rate you put for dt990 pro for gaming like details,, bass,, soundstage, Sound:,,Bass:,,Mids:,Treble:,Positioning:,Clarity:?? and etc?
> 
> from 0-10 for the gaming? in dt990 prO?



7/10 aka *GOOD*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry to him but I had to put him on Ignore. My inbox was full of his messages for the same question, and if I answer, one question turns to 20. I don't have that amount of patience.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sorry to him but I had to put him on Ignore. My inbox was full of his messages for the same question, and if I answer, one question turns to 20. I don't have that amount of patience.


You've shown incredible amounts of patience so far. I'd just play Sound of Silence on loop if I had to deal with that.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sorry to him but I had to put him on Ignore. My inbox was full of his messages for the same question, and if I answer, one question turns to 20. I don't have that amount of patience.



Did the same long time ago. Once you answer him he goes bazooka and is a pain to get rid of. Really not normal.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Got a feeling all the same multitude of repeated questions have been on reddit and another forum I use in the past week or so.  Different username but the questions and wording are just too similar to be coincidence.


----------



## mikerrr

look  is it  worth to  buy  dt990 pro  for gaming and electronic music?


----------



## mtnmankeith

Aliv3 said:


> Is there any way to use the astro mix amp (for chat) in conjunction with creative G6 in Xbox?


----------



## headphonesonly

mikerrr said:


> look  is it  worth to  buy  dt990 pro  for gaming and electronic music?


Bruh


----------



## HairyHook

headphonesonly said:


> Bruh


This is one of the best answers I have seen to his questions. Ever.


----------



## headphonesonly

HairyHook said:


> This is one of the best answers I have seen to his questions. Ever.


I just got 3 pm’s from that guy. I’ve made a mistake lol.


----------



## HairyHook

headphonesonly said:


> I just got 3 pm’s from that guy. I’ve made a mistake lol.


Same here. Oh boy...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys, so I was given the go ahead to do my normal process for these, but just wanna let you guys know that the next product I'm in the process of reviewing is the Massdrop X HIFiMAN Edition XX!

I've spent the better part of ALL last week using them, and I'm excited to let you guys know that it is a banger.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Mar 28, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey guys, so I was given the go ahead to do my normal process for these, but just wanna let you guys know that the next product I'm in the process of reviewing is the Massdrop X HIFiMAN Edition XX!
> 
> I've spent the better part of ALL last week using them, and I'm excited to let you guys know that it is a banger.



Looking forward to your review of those for gaming.
And secretly have been hoping for a review of the Elegia as well. Any chance on those?
Or those MD Koss Stats?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nothing for the Elegia, but I did ask about the Koss Stats. That may be a possibility. We'll see. I don't know yet.


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey guys, so I was given the go ahead to do my normal process for these, but just wanna let you guys know that the next product I'm in the process of reviewing is the Massdrop X HIFiMAN Edition XX!
> 
> I've spent the better part of ALL last week using them, and I'm excited to let you guys know that it is a banger.



Looking forward to the review. I got in on this drop and am eagerly awaiting these.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I went ahead an ordered a Schiit Magni 3. I don't wanna feel like I'm underpowering headphones I review and whatnot, so I figured I'll at least get a highly regarded affordable amp. The G6 dac is good enough for my needs for now  if I'm doing serious stereo listening, and of course all my gaming tests will be utilizing everything from the GSX1000 for GSX, the U3/Mixamp 5.8 for Dolby Headphone, the G6 for SBX. I do wish SYS by Schiit had 3 inputs. I'll have to constantly unplug whatever is attached to the Magni.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I went ahead an ordered a Schiit Magni 3. I don't wanna feel like I'm underpowering headphones I review and whatnot, so I figured I'll at least get a highly regarded affordable amp. The G6 dac is good enough for my needs for now  if I'm doing serious stereo listening, and of course all my gaming tests will be utilizing everything from the GSX1000 for GSX, the U3/Mixamp 5.8 for Dolby Headphone, the G6 for SBX. I do wish SYS by Schiit had 3 inputs. I'll have to constantly unplug whatever is attached to the Magni.



Use 2 SYS? Or something like this?
https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Switcher-Composite-Selector-Consoles/dp/B00KXVBB3Q


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Use 2 SYS? Or something like this?
> https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Switcher-Composite-Selector-Consoles/dp/B00KXVBB3Q


I mean sure, but it's not aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I mean sure, but it's not aesthetically pleasing.



Get this one and call it "vintage" or "retro"?  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HF6MDCX/


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Saw this on reddiit earlier - wording seems very familiar to our 'friend' on here 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneA...es_someone_has_the_dt990_premium_edition_has/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

WhiteHartMart said:


> Saw this on reddiit earlier - wording seems very familiar to our 'friend' on here
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneA...es_someone_has_the_dt990_premium_edition_has/


If that ain't him, I'd quit Headfi and the headphone game in general.


----------



## headphonesonly

WhiteHartMart said:


> Saw this on reddiit earlier - wording seems very familiar to our 'friend' on here
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/HeadphoneA...es_someone_has_the_dt990_premium_edition_has/


Did you get a million pm’s yet?


----------



## AppleheadMay

headphonesonly said:


> Did you get a million pm’s yet?



I did, then blocked.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

headphonesonly said:


> Did you get a million pm’s yet?



None this time - and just the two last time - I feel lucky (or maybe just unpopular  )


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Spoke too soon - had a message on Reddit with exactly the same series of questions as the pms I got on here!!!! Jeez!


----------



## mkz

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I went ahead an ordered a Schiit Magni 3. I don't wanna feel like I'm underpowering headphones I review and whatnot, so I figured I'll at least get a highly regarded affordable amp. The G6 dac is good enough for my needs for now  if I'm doing serious stereo listening, and of course all my gaming tests will be utilizing everything from the GSX1000 for GSX, the U3/Mixamp 5.8 for Dolby Headphone, the G6 for SBX. I do wish SYS by Schiit had 3 inputs. I'll have to constantly unplug whatever is attached to the Magni.



How would you connect G6 to Magni? Optical to RCA adapter or something like that? Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 6, 2019)

mkz said:


> How would you connect G6 to Magni? Optical to RCA adapter or something like that? Thanks.


The G6's output jack is a combination line out/optical out. So an RCA to 3.5mm cable is all I need. In the software, you can set the G6 to send either a digital signal or analog.

The Xonar U3 also has a combo line/optical out, so in the settings you can change whether to send an analog signal or Digital one.

In the future if I get the Modi, I can just set the G6 to optical out, and it bypasses the G6 dac and uses the Modi instead. So I can have the G6 do SBX, and send that digitally to the Modi. But for now I'll have the G6 do all the digital processes and send the information via the analog to the Magni.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Modi Multibit is a very fine device, owned it for more than a year until I upgraded. The current version seems to be even better. 

My G6 is connected via USB to the PC and via optical the PS4 and optical out to my DAC. 
Power wise it's connected to a WYRD so I always have USB power, especially when the PC is off. Thank god the current firmware works very stable and does not reset or magically alter settings making me power up the PC again reset settings and put them back on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm glad Creative fixed all the major issues on the G6. It's a fine device, for sure.


----------



## Yethal

Is the surround as good as the X7 now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 8, 2019)

I don't have the X7 anymore so not sure, but I find it just fine overall. Enough to not drop the G6 for something else atm. DH is better, GSX is better, but it's not like I'm hurting for positional cues on the G6's version of SBX.


----------



## Clean6eR

Yethal said:


> Is the surround as good as the X7 now?


Hi, 
The g6 now can have the surround set between 0 and 100 the same as the x7 (used to be 0 50 100 only) that is pretty cool. I will hook up the x7 again and compare later.
The g6 sounds smoother via its hp amp than the x7 which with very clean op amps let you hear how direct mode was much better than its built in dsp chip. The g6 feels more musical, suits ad700 k712 and hd800 better than x7. But if you just love revealing raw detail x7 beats g6.
The mic monitor on both has the surround mode applied to it which drives me insaine as does chat. This is why i dont game with it on often. If you use closed headsets and need monitor the g6 with updated firmware is a winner its like the gamedac,mixamp tr, tac, and 720 one. Its pretty much instant when it has no processing turned on, yay! The x7 delay is horrible in that regard.
After more gaming i realised open back is for me so i turned off mic monitor and am ready to retry the x7 and surround for a giggle and ill let you know, from memory they seemed simular but i think the flat sound signature difference between the two will play a big factor when trying to compare


----------



## Yethal

I only need the dsp part if the g6, the amp/dac is of no interest to me. It's going to be plugged into yggdrasil anyway.


----------



## Clean6eR

Yethal said:


> I only need the dsp part if the g6, the amp/dac is of no interest to me. It's going to be plugged into yggdrasil anyway.


so,
if i optical out of the g6 and x7, but put them into the x7 optical in then in wondows record the optical in on it i should get a pretty consistent comparison between the two?

what would you want recorded? i can record the surround test in windows sound settings.

i can record 5.1 on g6 and x7, then 7.1 on g6 but x7 doesnt have that option.

is there any good reference benchmarks or games i could use?


----------



## Yethal

Clean6eR said:


> so,
> if i optical out of the g6 and x7, but put them into the x7 optical in then in wondows record the optical in on it i should get a pretty consistent comparison between the two?
> 
> what would you want recorded? i can record the surround test in windows sound settings.
> ...


Video game footage. Something with good positional audio.


----------



## Clean6eR

Yethal said:


> Video game footage. Something with good positional audio.


started recording the g6




*this is the 7.1 on top and 5.1 on bottom with sbx on 100%* on both, the 7.1 doesnt seem to change the surround channels data at all compared to 5.1 it just seems to add two more channels, kinda suggest enabling 7.1 just gives it extra to play with without messing with the other channels, so if you feed it 5.1 audio you will hear no difference between turing 5.1 or 7.1 on in the cards settings. only reason i can see to use 5.1 over 7.1 on this card is if you dislike the extra audio channels or feel that level of addional info is just not as pleasing.
the picture shows the end of the rear channel in 5.1 then the first extra surround channel on the 7.1 stream, below is the less zoomed full capture:



as you are intrested in g6 vs x7 i will focus on the 5.1 streams and compare the 100%,50%,11%(the default i got when i installed the new firmware) and also 0% sbx of the 5.1 stream (that order top to bottom on next screenshot:



the first two hits are the front left and front right hits, the bottom 0% shows them as hard paned zero echo effect, if i zoom in alot i can still see a stereo difference on the surround speakers on the 0% wave too suggesting there is an effect applied to them but VERY subtle, the higher the % of sbx the more pronounced the stereo bleed is.

attached are the sound files.
first number is level of sbx second number is channels eg:
10071= 100% sbx 7.1 audio
051= 0% sbx 5.1 audio


----------



## Clean6eR

there seems to be the same relationship with the x7, the higher the % the more crossover there is (100% on top, 50%= grey, 11%, 0%=grey bottom):




What is intresting is the comparison. i have added the sound clips for the above like before for the g6.





the g6 is on the top and x7 on the bottom, they look almost the same but the x7 appears to have a much hotter signal. i have no idea why this might be the case, they both outputting optical and im caputing optical too, both devices were set to 100% output for both tests too. odd but it gets odder! i will normalize this signal to see if the wave form is the same..., that did not work, the x7 seems to give a more pronounced bleed over, this visually shows they will not be percived in the same way by the listener. the really odd thing is the 0% behaviour, check this out!!!




g6 at the top and x7 at the bottom again, all looks simular for the front and center speakers, the bass and surround is hotter on the x7, this may make surround seem even more present? but look at the g6 surround when its set to 0, its like a surround crossfeed but the x7 presents it like its a hard pan downmix type signal! so g6 is like a no reverb surround on 0% where the x7 is downmix to hard setero on 0%


----------



## Clean6eR (Apr 9, 2019)

TLDR: x7 g6 seem to use simular/same algorythim but the surround channels on the x7 seems to be a compromise between the side and rear found on the g6's 7.1 mode.

trying to record a overwatch match using windows game capture but on playback it doesnt sound like it did in game, seems stereo. i will try and install obs and see if i can get it working. the x7 does seem very apparent its surround sound!

i played one match of overwatch per video in bot match and i know i suck but it was to show surround in an actual game so you can settle in and see which plays out best

ok so i did x7 100% sbx:

g6 100% sbx in 5.1:

g6 100% sbx in 7.1:

windows sonic for headphones on g6:

windows atmos with 7.1 virtua on g6:

plain direct stereo on g6:


youtube video links to be added once uplaoded and cropped to remove all the waiting for a game bits...


----------



## Clean6eR (Apr 9, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Video game footage. Something with good positional audio.


done! hope it helps! sorry youtube took ages to crop them all!

errrr quite a few of them dont sound like what i remeber hearing when i was gaiming! god knows what i did wrong on this.

ahh so obs was capturing at 44khz and i was at 48khz, that sucks, ill re do x7 5.1 100% and g6 7.1 100% and re up


----------



## mkz

How do you guys setup G6 mic on PS4? Mine doesn't seem working on ingame chat. Adjust microphone level on PS4 works but no one hear me in game. I tried both modmic 4 and boompro. I googled but couldn't find any answer related to this issue.
Setting also seems reset once I plugged back on PS4. I can see the led light is changing back to default red. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Clean6eR

mkz said:


> How do you guys setup G6 mic on PS4? Mine doesn't seem working on ingame chat. Adjust microphone level on PS4 works but no one hear me in game. I tried both modmic 4 and boompro. I googled but couldn't find any answer related to this issue.
> Setting also seems reset once I plugged back on PS4. I can see the led light is changing back to default red. Any help would be appreciated.


when you plug into the ps4 the light returns to red, it seems to enter some form of ps4 default mode that you cannont change, the mic will work always unless you enable direct mode, to check look at the right hand side when its on and plugged into the ps4, if the front light is flashing then its in direct mode, keep your finger on this button for like 5 seconds to disable it, i would also make sure you push it one more time to ensure its not got a constant white light on that button as thats the sneaky type mode that boosts the mids like crazy and makes ears want to cry. aside from that not sure what would be stopping it outside of the mute on the mic itself or the mic volume level is too low. to change the volume level of the mic in ps4 mode hold the volume button down for like 5 seconds until the volume light switches from white to red, then ramp up the volume, hold it again to return to master volume mode (white light) tapping the volume wheel in white mode will mute audo to headphones and tapping it in red mode will mute or unmute the mic monitor function. hope this helps!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 9, 2019)

Got my Magni 3 in today. FeelsGoodMan

Expect the Massdrop x Hifiman Edition XX review to be posted  either today or tomorrow.

One thing I don't like about the G6. The volume level is the same whether you plug in a headphone or use the line out, so since I'm using the Magni, I have to set the volume to near max when using the line out, but if I wanna compare to the G6's headphone jack, I have to adjust the volume back down to low levels before connecting the headphone back to the G6. On the X7, it would auto switch and keep them separate.

In short, you can definitely blow your headphone drivers if you don't adjust the volume before plugging back in.

Also, I could swear I already did the updates for the G6. Why is the surround only 3 settings for me? Apparently it's like the X7 now and goes from 0-100? Not for me.


----------



## mkz

Clean6eR said:


> when you plug into the ps4 the light returns to red, it seems to enter some form of ps4 default mode that you cannont change, the mic will work always unless you enable direct mode, to check look at the right hand side when its on and plugged into the ps4, if the front light is flashing then its in direct mode, keep your finger on this button for like 5 seconds to disable it, i would also make sure you push it one more time to ensure its not got a constant white light on that button as thats the sneaky type mode that boosts the mids like crazy and makes ears want to cry. aside from that not sure what would be stopping it outside of the mute on the mic itself or the mic volume level is too low. to change the volume level of the mic in ps4 mode hold the volume button down for like 5 seconds until the volume light switches from white to red, then ramp up the volume, hold it again to return to master volume mode (white light) tapping the volume wheel in white mode will mute audo to headphones and tapping it in red mode will mute or unmute the mic monitor function. hope this helps!



Thanks. That could be volume problem. My brother said he can see the volume icon next to my ign. I think scout mode is off, no light on the button. 
There is no microphone light is on by the way. Only Dolby and headphone/speaker light is on. Is yours showing the light?


----------



## Clean6eR

mkz said:


> Thanks. That could be volume problem. My brother said he can see the volume icon next to my ign. I think scout mode is off, no light on the button.
> There is no microphone light is on by the way. Only Dolby and headphone/speaker light is on. Is yours showing the light?


just hooked it up and mic wasnt working, i held volume wheel down until it went red, the mic light was flashing to show i had mic monitor disabled which is ok but still no noise, i turned up the volume on the now red volume knob and suddenly it started picking up the mic. when the volume wheel is white the mic light is not lit up on the side but it works still


----------



## mkz (Apr 9, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Got my Magni 3 in today. FeelsGoodMan
> 
> Expect the Massdrop x Hifiman Edition XX review to be posted  either today or tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Nice. I'm also curious to see how it sounds like with external dac. G6 SINAD value are already high like modi or topping.
Do you use 3.5mm to RCA for line out too? Thanks.


----------



## mkz

Clean6eR said:


> just hooked it up and mic wasnt working, i held volume wheel down until it went red, the mic light was flashing to show i had mic monitor disabled which is ok but still no noise, i turned up the volume on the now red volume knob and suddenly it started picking up the mic. when the volume wheel is white the mic light is not lit up on the side but it works still



Thank you. I'll try when I got home. Much appreciated.


----------



## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Got my Magni 3 in today. FeelsGoodMan
> 
> Expect the Massdrop x Hifiman Edition XX review to be posted  either today or tomorrow.
> 
> ...



And here I thought I might've done something wrong.  When I tried line-out once to my Magni 2U, I noticed I had to adjust the volume on the G6 in addition to the Magni 2U.  Isn't that abnormal for a line-out?  My understanding was that a line-out jack will typically output a signal at a fixed volume.

Yeah, it sounds like your G6 is not fully updated.  You should see 0-100 for the SBX effect.  Couldn't hurt to re-run both updaters for the firmware and the SB Connect drivers/software.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mkz said:


> Nice. I'm also curious to see how it sounds like with external dac. G6 SINAD value are already high like modi or topping.
> Do you use 3.5mm to RCA for line out too? Thanks.


Yeah, I have a small 3.5m cable that hookes up to a female 3.5mm to rca cable. I don't have any 3.5mm male to rca male cables around. I threw a boxc away with a bunch of stuff I wasn't using so I think I lost most of my audio cables.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 9, 2019)

Vader2k said:


> And here I thought I might've done something wrong.  When I tried line-out once to my Magni 2U, I noticed I had to adjust the volume on the G6 in addition to the Magni 2U.  Isn't that abnormal for a line-out?  My understanding was that a line-out jack will typically output a signal at a fixed volume.
> 
> Yeah, it sounds like your G6 is not fully updated.  You should see 0-100 for the SBX effect.  Couldn't hurt to re-run both updaters for the firmware and the SB Connect drivers/software.



Yeah, I'll give that a shot.

And yeah, line out is usually fixed, so it looks like the G6 is either a pre-amp out, or I dunno. Consider it can send virtual surround out, it's possible that it isn't a pure line out. I dunno how the X7 did it either, perhaps circuitry switch between fixed and variable kinda like the Audio-GD gear that has a hardware switch between pre-amp to pure line out.

*edit: Ok, whatever changed, the software now has 0-100. *


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## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

I'm sorry for the triple post, but I need this one to be its own post: Here's the Edition XX review! I'll be linking this post to the first page, as well as the XX specific thread. As always, please forgive any grammatical/spelling errors. I tend to find them at a later date even after having re-read the review a hundred times.



----------
----------

*Massdrop x HiFiMAN Edition XX*







$599 as of April 2019

*Where To Buy*: Massdrop

_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Massdrop for sending these out for reviewing purposes. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, as I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. Thankfully, I rarely get questionable products, so the process of reviewing has been largely painless in that regard. In short, it's been quite a few years where I've made the decision to post only reviews about products I look at positively. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about the good stuff. On to the review!_

*Review posted first here.*

It has been an incredibly long time since I have last heard a product from HiFiMAN that wasn't my dearly beloved HE-400, the criminally underrated HE-4, or the RE0 iem from a very long time ago. Suffice to say, my experiences with HiFiMAN have been largely positive, though vastly outdated. You would think that in the many years since those releases, HiFiMAN would've been working on updating and improving their planarmagnetic technology. You'd be correct, as they have built up a strong lineage with highly regarded headphones like the HE-500, HE-560, Edition X, and many other popular models.

The Edition XX (this point forward, I'll simply be calling it the XX ) marks one of a few ventures where HiFiMAN and Massdrop have joined forces to release special models under the Massdrop umbrella. A team-up with the intention to release a higher fidelity sound at a lower price point. The XX shares a similar driver and cup design as the Edition X and HE-1000 headphones, with the older style headband designs of the past used in models like the HE-4, HE-400, HE-6, HE-500.

Personally, I would've liked the XX to have used the newer style headbands, considering they have already used it on some of their other Massdrop variants. That, and because I have never experienced the newer headband designs. That being said, I never had any real issues with the original headband design. If it was good enough for highly regarded headphones like the HE-6, it's good enough for the Edition XX, though visually, the older headband paired with the new cup design looks a bit different in terms of design language. That being said, the most important thing for any headphone is the drivers, which the XX absolutely nails.



*Build Quality:*

As some of you have most likely noticed from the previous section, the XX shares most traits of its build with the Edition X, HE-1000, and other HFM headphones of that higher caliber, with the headband design of the older models. Let's start there.

Headband:






The old style, spring steel headband with a protein leather covering the innards allow the XX to rest comfortably on the head with great weight distribution. The underside has just enough material and plushness to keep the headband from making any truly noticeable presence on the top of the head.

The plastic 'pucks' where the Hifiman Edition XX labeling is located, are the only pieces on the headphone I'm not enamored with, as they don't feel completely secured to the headband. This is the only thing I would want to see an improvement on in terms of this design.

The size adjustment arms are made of some seriously strong metal, and that comes with the difficulty of changing the extension. It is INCREDIBLY tight and secure. Perhaps a bit too much. My HE-400 is a lot easier to adjust despite similar design, whether by default or perhaps it may have given away with age. Either way, I think the XX could stand to be a little more loose in terms of allowing us to adjust the size extension. Not a big deal in any way, but just something worth noting.


Cups:

The cups are easily the most impressive looking cups I have ever seen on a headphone. They just ooze quality. I have experienced piano finishes, glossy/wooden finishes, slotted metallic finishes, and quite a few others, but I'd say I vastly prefer the tastefully silver and black open grill design on the XX. It is without a doubt one of the best looking cup designs I have seen on an open headphone. You can see right through the magnetic trace array to the other side, signifying just how open the XX truly is. The cups are egg shaped, and are almost comically large in size. They will easily swallow up the side of your head.


Pads:






I'm absolutely ecstatic at HiFiMAN's decision to continue using synthetic leather pads with a fabric top where the pads rest on the skin. I will always, always continue telling everyone how I hate the feeling of fake leather on my skin, so the decision to place fabric where pads meets skin is 100% correct, every single time. The use of synthetic leather also ensures that there is no sound escaping between your ears and the drivers unlike full velour or other fabric covered pads.

The openings for the ear are incredibly generous in size, whether width, height, or depth. It is so big, and allows the humongous driver surface area to emit sound unobstructed even well beyond your ear shape. This may be part of the reason, why the XX throws out a truly tall soundstage. This may actually be one of, if not my favorite design of pads ever on a full sized headphone. There is so much space for sound to travel around your ears, it adds a new dimension in headphone listening. There is very thin fabric covering the driver area, which shouldn't cause any discomfort if your ears bottom out on the pads.

I didn't try to remove the pads, as from what I can gather, is not user removable/replaceable. At least not in the way that is easy to slip off and on.


Cable:






The cable is another strong point for the XX in most aspects, the the actual sleeve is made up of... questionable material? The cable connects to each ear cup via thin 3.5mm plugs. This is a drastic improvement over my HE-400's old style connector which was personally a nightmare to deal with in terms of attaching/detaching, as well as in durability. My HE-400's cable already has exposed wiring due to those questionable connectors, even though I rarely use my HE-400 to begin with. It still works, but it's quite unsightly. The XX connectors being a very familiar 3.5mm, makes them a breeze to connect and disconnect.

The main portion of the cable is covered by a clear, plastic-feeling, tube material. It is flexible, but fights to go back to its straight form, and is ultimately a bit on the short side at 5.5ft/1.8m. For a headphone of this size, I would've preferred a longer cable, closer to 9ft, as I don't feel many people will be using the XX on the go for a variety of reasons, like the large size, and the fact that it's incredibly open. The source end terminates in a chunky, right angled, metallic 3.5mm plug (w/detachable 6.3mm snap-on adapter). I'm personally not a fan of the right angle plug. It makes it harder to connect to some devices, like a phone using a thicker protective case. Considering I wouldn't be using the XX on the go to begin with, it's not a big deal for me, but it is another thing worth noting. Using this with the Creative G6 portable dac/amp, the plug will 'kickstand' the G6 and cause it to flip over bottom side up with minor movement of the headphone cable.


Final Build Quality Impressions:

Despite the online reaction to the old style headband being used in place of the newer headband designs for the newer HiFiMAN headphones, the XX is exceptionally built through and through. My only complaints is limited to just the small plastic pucks attached to the headband, the shorter than optimal length of the cable, and the use of a right angle plug. Aside from those minor irks, I feel the XX is well dressed and exudes the quality worth its price and level of sound.



*Accessories:*






The review unit sent to me came simply just with the headphone and cable, no accessories. I don't mind a lack of accessories, as more often than not, it is superficial in terms of adding any realistic value to the product. If this is what it takes to lower the cost of any headphone, more manufacturers should follow suit. I get headphones for the headphones, not for the extra fluff.



*Comfort:*

The XX is unsurprisingly in the upper echelons of comfort for a headphone of this size.

Weight:

The XX weighs in at a hefty 420 grams, which is just 20 less than the HE-400 (440 g). Despite the heft, I don't consider either an issue in comfort compared to headphones like Audeze's LCD2 which weighs well over 100 g more than either HiFiMAN models I have on hand, and you feel every bit of it. The XX's weight is distributed pretty evenly, so it simply just isn't as much as a factor as people would be led to believe. Yes, it ain't featherweight by any means, but for a planarmagnetic, it is one of the least cumbersome from my experiences. Could it be lighter, sure, but I'm just not bothered by this much weight as much as others may be.


Headband:

I have never, ever had a problem with the old headband design in terms of comfort (even going back to the HE-4, I praised the headband), and that trend continues here. While it may not be as ideal as the newer designs with the suspended headband design, I feel the curvature of the headband, and the thin but practical amount of padding on the underside of the headband leave it completely inoffensive in terms of comfort. As stated earlier, the weight is distributed evenly on the head with no hotspots. I may want to see the newer headband used, but it's mainly for aesthetic reasons, and not because I feel there is anything wrong with the classic style headband. If there is an improvement in comfort, that'd be an added bonus, not a necessity.


Ear pads:

The ear pads are so large and spacious, I can't help but feel like they are absolutely sublime and among the very best in design, shape, size and depth. They aren't the most plush, and don't compress easily. The surface contact area is quite large and depending on your head shape and size may or may not rest in uncomfortable areas on the side of your face. Personally, the pads rest in all the right spots on my head. That being said, there is a slight clamp, which makes the pads not completely disappear in terms of feeling their presence.


Clamp:

The pads press in towards my head just a bit more than I like. It's not a 'clampy' headphone by any stretch of the word, but it was enough for me to notice. This area is completely subjective, as too much is almost as bad as too little, and I'm very picky with clamp forces in general.


Final Comfort Impressions:

Despite what I've said about clamp (subjective preference), If I had to give comfort a rating, I'd put it under great, as the XX is one of few headphones I can wear all day without feeling truly fatigued by them. I readjust here and there, but I have used them for 8+ hour sessions daily without any real complaints. That says a LOT. They're really good, great even, as stated before. This gets a recommendation for me in terms of full sized headphone comfort. Had they weighed as little as say, the HE-4, and had slightly looser clamp, they would have scored likely near the top out of all the full-sized headphones I have used.



*Noise Control:*

As you may have guessed just by looking at the XX, it is a very poor performer in isolation and leakage typical of its design. Seriously, don't expect any privacy in or out. You will want at least one room with the door closed between you and the next person if you need to keep it quiet. These leak a substantial amount.



*Sound:*

The XX has some really interesting sonic traits. Mainly excellent, but some that may or may not be suited to absolutely everyone's preference. The balance itself is exceptional throughout almost the entire frequencies.



*Bass:*

The bass is one area of the XX sound that I believe nearly everyone will agree with. The bass is absolutely magnificent. The pluck of low range strings, the subterranean rumble in the deepest depths, and the thump demanded of today's electronic music is all there, and is represented masterfully. Nothing is overbearing, nothing sounds dronish, and it all honestly just sounds...correct, musical, and energetic without overindulgence, or anemia. Planarmagnetic headphones in general almost always represent bass well. The XX is no exception and highlights how accurate and meatily defined and impactful bass should be.

Having done some frequency tests, it could be appreciably felt all the way down to 20hz, and was balanced all the way up to the upper bass limits. As far as frequencies go, nothing in the bass ranges sticks out. Just pure balance, and represented evenly without emphasis or deficiencies. Quantity is hard to define, but I think at the very least, most will agree it is either close to neutral or more. Not enough to be basshead level, but enough to satisfy those who like warmth, body, and fullness. So objectively, I'd say north of the neutral line, but subjectively natural, true to life.

In terms of speed, I feel the XX's speed in bass is faster and above then middle ground. Nimble, not slow of decay. It rumbles as long as it needs, and thumps with the agility one would expect of something perceptively correct. I've not heard much faster without thinness, and I have definitely heard much slower. Bass should have some decay, and it absolutely shouldn't linger too long. So for me, the XX's speed is close to ideal.

If you're someone who enjoys bass, and have plenty of bass driven sources, you will not be disappointed with the XX. This isn't basshead bass. To my perception, this is bass how it is supposed to sound. So give it some bass heavy tracks, and listen to the XX absolutely jam out. Give it bass light tracks, and the XX remains reigned in. Put on an action film with explosions, and feel every rumble. There is plenty of fun, immersion, and energy, as well as restraint and control.

There's excellent layering and texture all around. Not much more I can say without repeating what I've said in the beginning: The bass is absolutely magnificent. I don't have tools to measure distortion or the technical aspects of the bass, but subjectively, I will always hold my opinion in saying the XX's bass is excellent to my ears. If someone asked me what I think bass is supposed to sound like, I'd easily point them in the XX's direction. It's that good. I don't think there's such a thing as 'much better' than the quality of bass on display here.



*Midrange to treble:*

The bass is not ever intrusive to any part of the midrange which will be beneficial in midrange clarity. The midrange is relatively well balanced and subjectively linear to my ears throughout most of the spectrum. Despite these two things essentially making it easy to assume the midrange would be generally clear and spaced in a manner that isn't too intimate or spaced back, and just right (which it almost is), there is still a slight laid back nature to some details.

Vocals and other midrange aspects sound a little on the laid back side, and aren't as full as some of the more intimately voiced headphones. Not so much that the midrange is notably recessed or lacking, but that the presentation of sound isn't forward or aggressive.

Let me at least talk about specific frequencies. The early midrange up to 1khz has plenty of presence, which then dips a little between 1khz-2khz. There is a trend upwards to a 4khz-7khz plateau, where there is presence without shrillness all the way to 7khz, in which then it falls off dramatically to a valley at 7.5khz, picks up a little and falls again to another valley at 9khz and then trends upwards to 10khz and extends well to near 14khz to my ears. The treble truly extends and has a nice shimmer without being 'bright'.

The most laid back areas then are the area between 7khz and 9khz (not all of it, as there is energy at 8.5khz or so), though the slight recession between 1-2khz that may account for some of the spaced back nature. As I have stated, it is slight recession, not an outright culling of details in those areas. In terms of hot spots, while the most prominence to me is between 4khz-5khz, it isn't piercing or overly zingy.

To sum up the midrange to treble sections, I'd say that the XX in these areas is slightly laid back but quite detailed in the very top end. Low midrange is very linear and warm, higher midrange to low treble is a little more laid back, and top end treble sparkles and extends quite well.



*Soundstage and Imaging:*

With no processing:

The XX has an interesting soundstage. Interesting in a good way. It is very much planar-like, which means that it won't be as wide as the best open dynamic headphones out there, but gain in other areas. Planars tend to lose out on soundstage width but win out in depth and overall projection of a sonic image. A medium sized soundstage in terms of width, but with a noticeable strength of soundstage height, and excellent planar depth.

The imaging properties of the XX are good, though not as 'sharp' as other headphones like my HE-400. What I mean by this is that objects in the virtual space take up a larger area of the sound, but aren't as clearly 'defined' within the space. The ability to draw an object in the virtual space, comes easier on my HE-400.

That being said, I do find the XX to sound CONSIDERABLY 'bigger' and more room filling. Directly comparing it to my HE-400 (the HE400 equipped with Dekoni Audio DT elite velour pads and which has an excellent amount of soundstage depth and good width), I feel the XX has it beat in allowing the sound to envelop a bigger, taller space. The HE-400 almost sounds compressed next to the XX. It is an obvious difference in the presentation of sound. The XX sounds more lifelike and less like a headphone.

I don't usually name specific tracks, but to give an example, in 'Sarah Blasko - Arrow', the XX gives an impression of being in a room where Sarah is in front of you singing, while in the HE-400, it doesn't quite give you that lifelike presentation. She sounds more defined in the space in front of you, but she doesn't sound like "she's there", like she does on the XX. Think of it like squinting, but with your ears. You may see the object better when you squint, but you lose sight of what is around the object.

All in all, if you like complete intimacy, there are better options than the XX, as the XX does put you a little bit further away in comparison to closer presentations like the HD650. It's less "small lounge/front row", and more "concert hall/middle row". Don't get me wrong, it's not a mid recessed type of sound. Just that the soundstage is less headphone-esque, and so it won't put everything right in your face or in your head.

I can't understate how impressive and different the presentation is compared to a typical headphone. It's something to be experienced to truly understand. If the HE-400 places sounds in a horizontaal line, the XX has mountains on the horizon where sounds are placed.

With surround processing:

The XX is pretty brilliant when using surround dsps, like Dolby Atmos, SBX, Dolby Headphone, and others. It projects outward as well as the better headphones I have heard, with an expansive soundstage in all manner of its virtual dimensions. This makes the XX an excellent tool for virtual surround gaming, or movie watching. In terms of sheer soundstage size, I believe a good dynamic like the AKG K702 has it beat particularly in width, though I still wouldn't dismiss the more natural quality to the XX's soundstage shape. Strictly as a gaming headphone with surround, there are better options, but the XX does it just fine. No real complaints. If you plan on gaming with the XX, you seriously won't need anything else.


*Clarity:*

Clarity is an aspect of the XX's sound that I think will have some debate due to how the presentation of sound is slightly spaced back as opposed to more standard headphone projections of sound. This isn't due to general mid recession or overly large soundstage. It's just an inherent character that belongs to the XX from what I'm hearing. Personally, I do believe and would defend the XX's detail retrieval, but the slightly laid back balancing will not appease the more detail-oriented ears out there, or those who prefer the 'up close and personal' types of headphones where the sound is more forward and intimate.

The bass has good speed, clarity and texture keeping it from muddying up clarity, the midrange is evenly balanced with just a small dip in the 1-2khz range, and the treble has a pretty noticeable drop off between 7khz-9khz which does play a factor in some treble clarity. Treble in the upper end is quite shimmery and extended, but that drop off at 7-9khz can't be ignored as a potential point of detail loss. I think if they had kept that area more in line with the rest of the sound, the XX would have been a mostly neutral, supremely balanced headphone, which also comes with a possible problem of grating on the ears in those ranges. The clarity of its air is good, and sometimes great if the source isn't demanding a lot of low end. Not the most airy of headphones, mind you, but it can do that aspect well at times.

I'd say the clarity overall is very good throughout most of the frequencies and classify the overall sound as clear and detailed if a little laid back.



*Sound Signature:*

It isn't the final word on ultimate neutrality, as it ever so slightly treads towards warmth. That means it will be more pleasing for those who like things leaning on less fatiguing, warmer balances, but not overtly so. The highest treble having good extension, keeping the XX from sounding muddy or veiled. So if you like warm, warm headphones, the XX is NOT that, nor is it cold/analytical. Neutral warmth with sparkle is how I'd put it to my ears.



*Amping:*

I wouldn't go so far as to claim these are perfect straight out of a laptop, tablet, or cellphone. At the very least, any portable amp worth two cents and can hit high volume levels should be pretty good. My recommendation is to give it at least a decent portable amp's amount of power, as I feel they don't quite hit high volume levels even off a Sennheiser GSX1000 unless I max the volume out, which is far from ideal. For example, the volume off something like a Nintendo Switch was on the moderately lower side of my preferences. That makes it impractical for such a purpose.

In terms of what type of amp flavor makes sense for the XX, I believe a fast, detailed solid state would highlight the XX's strengths and de-emphasize the slight weaknesses. Heck, even a smooth and rich amp could also be a great pairing for it. Really, I think the XX is in a good place that any type of amp coloration would suit it. I don't think it's a picky headphone.




*Gaming:*

The XX makes for a very high quality headphone for gaming. Even if you play strictly in stereo, unprocessed, focused, and hardcore, the excellent soundstage height and depth really have an added layer of immersion not found in many other headphones. The tonal balance really allows for anything from fun, casual gaming, to serious tournament play, though be aware that the area of sound between 7-9khz in particular is low in volume compared to the rest of sound. I personally think that area is more sheen than important sound effects, but it's something needing mention. For gaming with virtual surround (as I do), there's really not much better than what the XX has to offer. The soundstage, and positional cues are excellent, as can be expected from all the things I've mentioned before.



*Personal Recommendations*

Media:

The XX makes a strong case in terms of a headphone for all use cases, except maybe pure analysis of sound or if vocal intimacy is desired. Music is highly enjoyable and dynamic, gaming is an absolute pleasure, and even anime watching (which tends to always sound crisp/bright 99% of the time) is a treat. I believe they tuned the XX to be on the enjoyable side for most content thrown at it, and if so, they succeeded in that mission. I think perhaps some people will expect the XX to have flagship-y voicing in terms of detail-retrieval and microscopic analysis of sources. The XX is not that. A broader, more consumer-friendly sound is what I'm hearing with the XX.


Real world practicality:

I would keep the XX strictly as a home or private office headphone. It makes a poor choice in terms of portable or transportable uses due to the size, and extremely open design.



*Likes and Dislikes:
*
Likes:

Soundstage height and depth
Tonal balance/sound signature
Bass in all regards from texture, speed, and quantity
Non-fatiguing even with good treble extension
Comfort
That planarmagnetic 'magic'

Dislikes:

Imaging/object definition could be sharper
7-9khz valley
Slightly distant vocals
Size extension hard to adjust



*Final Impressions:*

Sonically speaking, I can't find much fault here. It isn't perfect, and the balanced, slightly laid back sound will not best the more specialized headphones in terms of basshead uses, detail orientation, midrange-centric duties, etc. The price of having a broad spectrum of things well usually means it won't be the best in any one thing, but it also allows the XX to be more appealing to a larger crowd. Those who want a headphone that does well in most areas overall. If detail retrieval and clinical analysis is the most important aspect to you, there are better options, at lesser cost. However, the total amount of strengths the XX has in most aspects of sound far outweigh the negative traits. The more time I spend with the XX, the more I fall in love with its inherent characteristics.

The Edition XX is one of those headphones that make me feel like they're the only one I'd ever need at home. Massdrop and HiFiMAN have given us a truly spectacular headphone overall.



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## Whitigir

Is this the Overstock Susvara ? ...I am joking


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 9, 2019)

Whitigir said:


> Is this the Overstock Susvara ? ...I am joking




edit: *Just noticed the Susvara is $6000, lol. I dunno why I thought it was something closer in price to the XX. You got me. *


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## headphonesonly

The line out on the g6 is a pre amp and is designed for powered speakers. I’m not sure if a pre amp has a negative effect on SQ when using an external amp or if the only issue you can run into is the clipping.


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## beaux

Whitigir said:


> Is this the Overstock Susvara ? ...I am joking


They are overstock shangri la


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 9, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> The line out on the g6 is a pre amp and is designed for powered speakers. I’m not sure if a pre amp has a negative effect on SQ when using an external amp or if the only issue you can run into is the clipping.


The wording on the G6 itself says line out, hence the confusion.

The X7 which has a line out mode and pre-amp mode from the same jack,  so we thought the G6 had a similar function but doesn't.

@MattTCG, I see you


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## Lay. (Apr 10, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> The line out on the g6 is a pre amp and is designed for powered speakers. I’m not sure if a pre amp has a negative effect on SQ when using an external amp or if the only issue you can run into is the clipping.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> The wording on the G6 itself says line out, hence the confusion.
> 
> The X7 which has a line out mode and pre-amp mode from the same jack,  so we thought the G6 had a similar function but doesn't.
> 
> @MattTCG, I see you



The G6 has line out at least when used optical cable. The volume control has no effect to it and the sound quality is top notch.


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## KR1SeS

Would anyone who owns a Mayflower Arc (MA) be willing to test something out for me?

Connect the MA to PC via USB
Enable Dolby Atmos For Headphones (requires up to date Windows 10)
Confirm sound is working
I'm asking for this to be tested because on my current setup, with a Syba Sonic headphone DAC/Amp it works fine, but the Syba Sonic supports 16bit over USB. The MA only lists 24bit as supported when connected via USB. Enabling Dolby Atmos for Headphones always seems to force my Windows audio to 16bit output. Changing it manually back to 24bit disables Dolby Atmos for Headphones. So, will the MA work via USB with 16bit audio format?

Thanks if anyone can confirm this. I'm in Canada and it will be expensive to get the MA here and I only want to use it if it works with Dolby Atmos for Headphones and connected USB. I'm sure it will work via Digital Optical but I want to completely avoid my on-board audio.


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## headphonesonly

KR1SeS said:


> Would anyone who owns a Mayflower Arc (MA) be willing to test something out for me?
> 
> Connect the MA to PC via USB
> Enable Dolby Atmos For Headphones (requires up to date Windows 10)
> ...


The setup should be the same as the syba sonic. They’re both just dac amps with a mic in so I don’t see how it wouldn’t work as long as you pick 16bit format in the windows settings.


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## WhiteHartMart

Some new Astro gear is here apparently - not interested in the headset but the new Mixamp TR is something I'll keep my eye on (although still not expecting anything decent from the amp side of things).

https://www.astrogaming.co.uk/tr-landing.html


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 15, 2019)

That new Mixamp looks insane. I wonder if it's gonna do Dolby Atmos this time.

Edit: only states Dolby Audio on ps4, but clearly says Windows Sonic/Atmos on PC and XB1. That's confusing.


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## Yethal

WhiteHartMart said:


> Some new Astro gear is here apparently - not interested in the headset but the new Mixamp TR is something I'll keep my eye on (although still not expecting anything decent from the amp side of things).
> 
> https://www.astrogaming.co.uk/tr-landing.html


Still no digital output though. Wonder if dac/amp section got any better.


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## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> Still no digital output though. Wonder if dac/amp section got any better.



I'm hoping but realistically assume it hasn't!


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## jkaz327

I jumped on the 58X massdrop, haven't gotten them yet. Does anyone have an opinion on foam in or out for gaming (mostly fps)? I see many people saying foam out, just wondering if anyone has a differing opinion.


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## headphonesonly

jkaz327 said:


> I jumped on the 58X massdrop, haven't gotten them yet. Does anyone have an opinion on foam in or out for gaming (mostly fps)? I see many people saying foam out, just wondering if anyone has a differing opinion.


I don’t hear a difference with either.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 13, 2021)

This is the updated, finalized review of the Mobius.  I know the early impressions exist here and other places of head-fi, but this is the update, which will be added to the guide. Special thanks to  @Audeze, and @KMann, for the patience and the pair used for review.

I've unhidden/removed the spoiler tags per special request, as some people may not notice the review was hidden.

This will be added to the first page of my guide immediately.


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*Audeze Mobius*



$399 as of April 2019
*Where to buy*: Audeze, Amazon.com

Review as of April 2019's latest firmware and software updates

Review first posted HERE

*Disclaimer: Update 7/7/2021: I've started my employment at Audeze as a Customer Service Rep. As this review was done prior to my employment, I will leave this review here and intact, but do not expect any future reviews for Audeze products. First look style articles, perhaps, but I can't in good conscience review a product for a company I work for.*

First of many surprises, I do believe the Mobius is the world's first planarmagnetic "headset", world's first wireless/bluetooth planarmagnetic, and world's first internal head-tracking planarmagnetic headphone. Audeze is swinging for the fences with as many buzzwords you can fit into one extremely well designed package.



*Build Quality:*

To begin with, the Mobius stands apart from any Audeze planar I've personally seen. I would've expected another classic Audeze headphone: formal, fancily-dressed, laden with wood, heaviest of weights, and utterly behemoth in size. Instead, the Mobius came dressed like one would expect of a properly engineered bluetooth headphone, not in any way typical of Audeze.

Durable-looking plastic is its main ingredient (which I have zero problems with, mind you), likely to keep costs down to hit a specific price point.


Headband:

A standard plastic headband with the bottom dressed in very plush, uber comfortable faux-leather in the center. The size adjustment is fairly typical and akin to something you'd expect from Sennheiser, with a easy adjustment that clocks, but have no visible markings.

Cups:

The cups are oval-shaped, with a fully enclosed outer shell that house the power button, mic on/off, and power led indicator on the left outer cup; nothing on the right cup, though internally, I believe houses the battery (good for up to 10 hours of wireless playtime). The cups can lay flat for portable use/resting around the neck, and have enough swivel to fit any head shape. The bottom of the left cup is absolutely packed with all the interface you'll ever need: volume slider, microphone volume slider, aux/3.5mm input jack, usb type c input (for it's charging and PC audio side of things), microphone jack, and 3D button.

If that wasn't enough for you, the 3D button is a shortcut for other functions:

one button press: re-centers the headtracking of 3D mode
long press: toggles 3D on/off
double tap: switches from USB, AUX, Bluetooth

The mic volume slider also has shortcuts (subject to change). Pressing down on the volume slider switches from:

7.1 audio: PC picks up the Mobius as a 7.1 sound device. Use this if gaming/media playback and want to utilize the virtual surround capabilities properly

Stereo (formerly labeled as '2 channel'): Standard, PC picks this up as 2 channel...surprise. 16bit/48khz.

High Res: High fidelity two channel playback in 24bit/96khz. 3D button capabilites are disabled in this mode (no virtual surround or headtracking features).

Single press followed by sliding the mic volume up or down will change EQ presets:

Default, Footsteps, Ballistics, Music, Racing, RPG, Warm, Flat

The power button has shortcuts as well:

Long press when off: turns Mobius on
When on: long press: Bluetooth pairing mode
Holding it longer AFTER bluetooth pairing mode: turns the Mobius off


Ear Pads:

While some of you may know I'm not the biggest fan of faux-leather pads, Audeze has managed to give the Mobius a very ample amount of padding while minimizing surface contact area. The end result is that the Mobius sits comfortably on the skin, with an oval-shape opening, keeping the ears from bottoming out and pressing onto the drivers or pressing up against the pad walls. I'd like the skin contact area to be lined in cloth, velour or something similar (like Hifiman's focus pads), but that's just me.

Cables:

The Mobius comes with 3 basic cables: 6ft USB C to USB A, 6ft USB C to USB C, and 3.5ft 3.5mm aux audio cable. All your bases are covered here in terms of cables.

Final Build Impressions:

While the Mobius isn't the hefty beast one would expect of Audeze, it is made of some generally durable plastics that shouldn't offend anyone. The Mobius looks like it can take some moderate abuse, though why would you abuse planarmagnetic goodness like this?



*Accessories:*

Aside from the cables mentioned above, you get a boom microphone attachment. On the Audeze website, you have add-ons you can purchase for extra: a headphone stand ($24), and a carrying case ($39). I don't have the headphone stand , but I do have the carrying case.

Optional Carrying Case:

A black, clamshell carrying case with a zipper to open/close. The outside is tough and doesn't cave in to pressure easily. There is a nylon handle/strap for easy carrying.

The inside has a molded cutout to rest the Mobius in, as well as the top lid having a netted pouch that velcros shut, and clearance behind the lid and netted pouch where you can place other items in. All in all, a very nice case with rugged enough protection that I easily recommend for those wanting a case.

_*Update: (3/10/2020) 
Cryo Pads (*__*buy on Audeze's website for $40 HERE*__*):*_

I contacted Audeze a few weeks ago to see if they could send me a pair of cryo pads for testing, as well as an updated LCD-1 to see if they fixed the plug insertion problem I had on the review unit (thankfully, they did).

This one has been a long time coming, and I'm very late talking about it, but Audeze sells an optional pair of pads that instead of just memory foam inside of its protein leather exterior, the cryo pads instead use pads with gel filled material. I'll quote Audeze here as they essentially said all I needed to say. I'll include my own thoughts on these bullet points. The Cryo pads are...


_Dual-layer structure consisting of a memory foam base filled with professional-grade silicone gel, ensuring shape retention and heat reduction over extended gaming sessions!_

Personally-speaking, the winter hasn't generally been too hot or cold here generally, and as far as heat-reduction between the stock pads and the cryo pads go, I haven't felt any major changes between them either positively nor negatively. That's not to say that there AREN'T benefits, but it's likely because I didn't really have any major issues with the stock pads to begin with. The Mobius has some of the best stock pads I've used that were protein-leather based. I'd say the cryo pads may make more of a difference during hotter temperatures, which I'll try and update during the hotter months of the year. As of right now, I don't have a particular preference in this regard. I think they're both really excellent.


_Malleable gel material adapts to the unique contours of your head, ensuring greater comfort - even with glasses on!_

As far as shape retention goes, I think the cryo pads much more dense internals allow for better malleability around obstructions like glasses, and a variety of head shapes, so if you ever found yourself lacking seal with the stock pads, the cryo pads are the way to go. That being said, I didn't have any problems with the stock pads in terms of how it molded around my head, nor do I wear glasses. The stock pads do compress and bottom out quite a bit easier than the gel pads, so if you find yourself being constrained by the compression in the stock pads, the cryo pads may be exactly what you need.


_High-Grade Protein Leather looks and feels like organic leather._

I can't say much here as I already felt the stock pads looked and felt like really high quality leather pads. The same thing can be said of the cryo pads. While neither will dissuade me from preferring suede, velour, or other fabric type of pads, I really don't have a problem here. Audeze has managed to keep me from missing that type of material. I can wear the Mobius for hours a day without any major issues, whether I'm using either the stock or cryo pads.


_Easily replaceable so that you can change between standard and gel-filled earpads._

As stated, the Mobius, while having a proprietary mounting design on their pads that won't allow just any pads to be used (though you can finagle some pads on, like Shure's 1540 Alcantara pads), the Cryo pads simply snap on to the Mobius in the same way as the stock pads. There's not much to differentiate them aside from a difference in the driver cover having the new Audeze logo and an L/R indicator (both in an icy blue color), while the stock pads merely have L/R indicators.

To sum up my thoughts on the Cryo pads, at $40 I think they are a safe investment for anyone that has any comfort or fitment problems with the stock pads. I can't say if they are better or worse than the stock pads in terms of temperature control and long term comfort as I didn't have any issues with the stock pads.

As far as sound quality differences... this too is something I couldn't say was better or worse with any confidence. This is something I would consider a good thing, as I prefer pads NOT mess with the sound quality of a headphone. If anything, the sonic improvement may be for those who couldn't find a good seal with the stock pads, or felt the stock pads bottoming out and pushing the drivers right up to their ears. The cryo pads more or less ensures the drivers stay at a consistent distance whether during the first hour or a whole days' worth of gaming.

You can buy the cryo pads *here on Audeze's website *for $40, and it comes in all of the Mobius stock colors. Unfortunately for me, I was sent the grey colors, while I have the bronze Mobius. Oof. Lol.



*Comfort:*

Weight:

The Mobius is among the lightest planarmagnetic headphones I've personally tested, and generally a non-issue. I believe it is around 350g (correct me if I'm wrong please), which isn't the lightest headphone, though definitely light for a planar. I feel the weight is distributed well, and shouldn't pose a problem for most people.


Headband:

Headbands are either hit or miss in general, but I feel the Mobius is definitely on the right side of things, with ample cushioning, with no hot spots or sore spots even after many hours of use.


Ear Pads:

As mentioned earlier, I'm not generally a fan of faux-leather ear pads, but the shape, depth, and minimal skin contact surface, paired with the ample cushioning, makes the Mobius' ear pads quite comfortable, and amongst the best faux-leather ear pads I've tested. From memory I can't recall a better pair of faux leather ear pads in terms of comfort and keeping my ears cool.


Clamp:

I'd say the clamp on the Mobius falls under 'moderate' pressure. If anything, this may be the only area in comfort I'd personally want improved, as I prefer less pressure in general. I can see moderate clamp starting to cause minor aches during long listening sessions. Clamp is a highly debatable subject, and can easily fall under personal preference.


Overall Comfort Impressions:

The Mobius is in a range of comfort I'd consider quite good, despite personal preference of less clamp. Outside of clamp, the comfort easily lands in the spectrum between very good and great. I don't see many people having a problem with the Mobius whatsoever in terms of comfort. Even though my preference is fabric-covered pads, these fall under one of the best in comfort outside of my typical preferences.



*Isolation/Leakage:*

It's been a considerable amount of time since I've last played with a closed headphone of any kind, but I'd say the noise leak and noise isolation are absolutely good enough for my use. I couldn't see the Mobius being a problem to use in a quiet room, or in a loud environment.



*Sound:*

Undoubtedly the most important factor: How does the Mobius sound? Surely a headset packed with so many features at a lower than typical Audeze price-points would have to compromise in sound a bit? Well, I'm happy to say that if they sacrificed somewhere to bring us the Mobius, the sound definitely was not compromised.

_Note: Default is the intended frequency response of the Mobius. As such, this will be the main setting used for this review. The other settings will alter the tonal balance of the Mobius in subtle, but various ways, which I'll leave for you guys to figure out. This would be 8 reviews if I spent time trying to write down the sound differences between each. If you like the inherent Mobius sound but want subtle tweaks, chances are there is a preset that may lean towards your preferences._



*Bass:*

The bass on the Mobius is what I absolutely expect of Audeze: This is some good bass. And not in the "bassheads, come out and play" type of way, though audiophilic bassheads may or may not find solace here. The bass immediately reminds me of the classic LCD-2 Rev. 2 bass. It is big, meaty, and well present, in a way that only planars are capable of, without the excess mid bass energy associated with basshead-friendly dynamic headphones. It reaches as low as deemed possible without any protest, with the deepest of rumbles and omnipresence. It hits with absolute, resolute, authoritative impact, but not overly so. Decay is medium-fast, texture is rich, and despite it's boldness, is actually completely linear with the midrange, where there is little in the way of invasiveness.

There is a little bit of excess warmth in the lowest regions of male speech where it can sound a bit growly, but otherwise, the bass is here to play with the rest of the sound instead of dominating over it. That being said, make absolutely NO mistake: It will absolutely, undeniably hit you in the face given the right music tracks. But that's when bass is called for and not whenever it feels like.

Doing frequency checks: I felt the presence even down to 25hz, with no degree of weakeness all the way to the midrange. The bass is intoxicating and meaty enough to satisfy all who love bass, unless you want dronish, one note affairs, or those who don't put as much importance as the midrange or upper end sparkle.



*Midrange to Treble:*

Oh what a lovely, juicy, fluid midrange it is. The midrange is upfront and center, with a tonal quality as realistic as any I've heard. Easily amongt the very best midranges I've heard. It's absolutely wonderful. Male speech, as mentioned before can have an overactive lower octave, but only slightly. In general, everything about the midrange to me is lifelike and engrossing, with a focused presence. It just sounds...correct, to my ears.

You would think that despite having said how linear the curve seems to be on the Mobius, I've mentioned how meaty and impactful the bass is, and how focused, fluid, and lifelike the midrange is, leaving one to assume that the treble likely took a backseat, leaving the Mobius as a warm, overly smooth sounding headphone. Well, that simply isn't true. The treble is absolutely present and clean sounding, despite it not being _too_ highlighted. It maintains a very fine balance with the bass and midrange, where one would think the treble is basically on par with either. To my ears, the treble is quite present yet just a hint (A HINT) south of absolute neutrality. What I mean by that is that it's very close to complete balance with the bass and midranges, but has some cleverly tucked in regions that soften the impact of annoying treble ranges, and highlights the best regions that add clarity and sparkle, like 10khz.

One would say it's neutral treble and I wouldn't disagree. This absolutely is NOT the LCD2 of old. There is an undeniable treble presence here, and it's at a level that I'd consider incredibly well balanced. I'd say that had it not been for the strength of the bass on the Mobius, it would be a deadlock between all ranges. To my ears, the treble is just expertly balanced here. No glaring peaks, sibilance, or overly glossed over sections of stuffy, blanketed treble.

Frequency check: Peak prominence at 3.2khz, biggest recession points at 6khz and 7khz, but not overly so. Mid to treble ranges are generally detailed and present, and upper treble at 8.5khz is the strongest point after 3.2khz, but not super hot. 10khz sparkle is present but not over-emphasized. In short, Audeze has a very desirable frequency balance that is neither too soft, nor too bright. I've heard much more expensive headphones with much worse frequency balance control. Audeze did very well here.



*Soundstage:*

Stereo mode, 3D off:

Soundstage, as always is not something I pay particular attention to when using headphones in stereo (as opposed to when I use them with any form of virtual surround, which the Mobius DOES have as an option.) That being said, I review soundstages in their pure, untouched, stereo forms. Only two closed planars really surprised me in terms of soundstage: the MrSpeakers Alpha Dog, and Ether C. The Mobius has good depth, good height, average width to my ears. I feel the Mobius has particularly excellent frontal projection, despite an average size soundstage typical of closed headphones and planars in general. It is one of those few headphones that with certain music tracks is able to trick me into thinking I'm listening to my front speakers, not headphones.

With the 3D surround on:

To say it transforms the soundscape, soundstage, and soundfield would be an understatement. More on this in the gaming section, and 3D button specific sections.



*Clarity:*

The Mobius has a decent amount of clarity, thanks to it's very linear response, not masking any region outside softening a few treble ranges, though not ones that stifle perceived clarity.

The bass leaves the midrange well enough alone in the vast majority of examples, and the treble sparkles without being overly pronounced nor stuffy and veiled.

It's not as clear as the brighter, detail oriented headphones out there, but for a neutral to warm leaning closed headphone, it does an admirable job.

Clarity changes when engaging it's 3D surround mode, in which the Mobius takes on a slightly brighter, airier, more detailed tonality, which makes it great for detail-attentive gaming. This zaps the bass a bit, so you may wanna change the preset to 'Music' or 'Warm' if you want to bring back some of the bass and warmer characteristics.



*Sound Signature:*

Tonality: Neutral-warm tonality, linear, authoritative, but controlled bass, luscious midrange, neutral-warm treble with moderate sparkle.

Bass: Linear, sub bass is cavernous, mid bass as impactful as necessary, not overly energetic. Slight excess bass energy in lower frequency male speech. Bass decay/resonance is medium speed. Rich texture.

Midrange: Warm neutral, linear, up front and center, organic, lifelike, natural. Excellent. No annoying areas in the transition to lower treble. Slight dip at 1.5khz, 3.5khz-4khz transition is the pronounced but not overly sharp.

Treble: Warm neutral/south of neutral, with sparkly upper end. Not soft, not pronounced. Walks a fine line between smooth and sparkly. Warm, but not WARM. Upper end extension is high. 3.2khz prominence, 6khz-7khz dip, 8.5khz peak, 10khz-12khz lively but not piercing. 13khz drop off.



*Gaming:*

As Audeze first foray into a gaming headset, you would expect that it needs to deliver, and I have to say, gaming with the Mobius has been a treat. As one would expect of a deeply immersive experience that a meaty bass, rich midrange headphone would give, the immersion factor is absolutely stellar. This is one incredibly fun headphone to use. It is vibrant and dynamic, with some pleasant prowess in terms of clarity as well. Headphones tend to lean towards either immersive gaming, or competitive, detail oriented gaming. Well, I can easily say the Mobius can easily serve as either. I guess that is what an incredibly linear response can deliver, yet without any 'flat' sound boredom.

Now for the real treats.

How well does it's 3D surround sound function? As someone who started with the tried and true Dolby Headphone, who has dabbled with Beyerdynamic's Headzone surround dsp, then THX Tru Studio, and for a few years up to now having used Creative's SBX Surround, with the latest being Sennheiser's SGX, I can say I was absolutely surprised by how effective Audeze's surround solution is. Here are my past and current experiences:

There are many other virtual surround dsps, but these are the ones I'm accustomed to and found worth using. In my nearly decade long audiophile life, you can say I'm more than well acquainted with what Audeze is attempting here with its base virtual surround implementation outside of the headtracking.

So is the Mobius' implementation of surround worthwhile when compared to tried and true dsps that have thrived before its inception? Short answer? Abso-freaking-lutely.

The surround emulation just works. It instantly reminds me of something akin to Creative's SBX surround, give or take a bit of rear positional depth. Positional accuracy is correct, with the only negligible shortcoming being that blind testing front/rear positional cues aren't as easy as with Dolby Headphone or SBX. Now, this is a problem I personally feel ALL surround DSPs have. It's just one of those aspects of virtual surround that take a little more than just sound to convince. Action on screen relative to what you hear goes a long way into 'tricking' your brain into hearing sound cues as being 'behind you'.

Now, I won't go out of my way and say it's the best one, though that may be purely on preference. I'd rate its virtual surround as an 8/10. It's great. I can without question use the Mobius competitively and not ever feel like its positional cues are a detriment.



*3D Button and Its Effects*

To add what the 3D button does and its effects for more than just gaming, let me clarify:

Base Surround Emulation:

For best results, you need to change the mode to 7.1 (though head tracking does work in 2 channel mode to a lesser extent).

Upon engaging virtual surround, the sound signature of the Mobius becomes slightly brighter (though still retains the Mobius traits of linear signature with deep AND punchy bass, just a little less so, but with equally present midrange, and neutral-ish non-fatiguing but clear treble). It becomes considerably more airy, which is to be expected. You're going from a typical headphone's audio, to something that simulates a room with speakers. That's right, you honestly should not compare basic stereo mode with 7.1 virtual surround/head tracking mode, because the presentation of sound is COMPLETELY different. Again, it's like going from headphones to then taking your headphones off and listening to speakers inside a room. Not exactly the same, right?

Well, the immediate difference is how the sound goes from inside your head to several virtual feet in front of you, at the very least when it comes for stereo content. If you're listening to music, it's like there are a set of speakers in front of you. If playing 5.1/7.1 content, it's like you're in the middle of the action, and things are happening all around you. Now, you may think "well, regular headphone gaming I feel like I'm in the center of it all." No. Just no. There is no comparison. You're still limited to two channels giving you audio that is more or less in and around your headspace. Virtual surround is like you're listening to speakers quite some distance from you, hence why I say NEVER to compare between them. You wouldn't compare a headphone's soundstage and imaging directly with speakers, so don't do it here.

Mobius's surround emulation is distinct, with clear positional cues, note-worthy airiness and soundstage size. You are enveloped in a large sound field that is further aided by the wonderful, wonderful headtracking. Thankfully, the reverb is kept to a minimum (though that depends on the software's room ambience setting), so it doesn't sound overly artificial like some other virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone, which may have better rear positional discernibility, but at the expense of fidelity. I think most users would take the Mobius interpretation of virtual surround over Dolby Headphone.


Headtracking:

As if virtual surround wasn't enough, Audeze decided to throw in an incredibly functional headtracking feature that not only works, but works amazingly well.

To start, it begins with you facing what you deem is the front (or in my case, the TV screen). You then press then 3D button to center the headtracking. From that point, ANY head movement will be tracked by the Mobius. So if you were to turn around, the audio that is supposed to be in front of you will come from behind you. To give an easy example: say you're using this feature while listening to music, well it's exactly like you're listening to speakers in front of you, and whatever direction you turn to, the audio will still be coming from where the speakers are obviously located. It's something you have to experience to truly understand and appreciate.

Now, for music, I'm a headphone purist, in the sense that I would just rather listen to the Mobius with the 3D/surround/headtracking turned off. However for sources that have a 5.1/7.1 mix like movies, video games, and tv shows, I absolutely swear by the surround and headtracking.

For gaming in particular it adds an extra layer in dimensionality, as no longer do I have to 'think' of the sound as it ALWAYS being in front of me, so if say, my head were slightly angled in another direction, I would still know where sound cues are at on the screen, because the headtracking makes it possible to pinpoint EXACTLY where sounds are coming from relative to where I'm facing and not just where it is at relative to the screen. It's not only immersive, it's absolutely beneficial, if even by just a little bit.

I think this will absolutely be a game changer in the future, if the gaming industry pays attention.


Final Impressions on Surround and Headtracking:

Surround sound alone is something I deem incredibly important in gaming, especially headphone gaming. The Audeze Mobius' implementation is a fantastic new alternative to all the existing surround dsps out there. In addition to its headtracking, it may as well become a brand new favorite for many people. Audeze already had a bang up headphone without even going into the gaming and surround features. With them, Audeze has come out the gates swinging for the fences.



*Bluetooth:*

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a lot of experience with wireless audio. Outside of a pretty good pair of Koss PortaPro wireless, Jaybird X2s iems, and gaming headsets: Creative Soundblaster Jam, Astro A50, Skullcandy Plyr 1, I don't expect much from wireless audio.

I can EASILY say that I'm positively blown away by how amazing the Mobius sounds in its Bluetooth form. I mean, it sounds the almost the 'same' to my ears. I mean that in a way that I don't notice any sound signature differences. It sounds clean, crisp, clear, and if there is any compression, I honestly can't tell. I would absolutely fail a blind test between bluetooth and USB. I'm sure there are differences, but I'm not gonna strain myself to the point where I trick myself into thinking one sounds better than the other. That is the highest praise I can give.

We can sit here and talk about headtracking, and whatnot. To be honest, I think I was just as impressed by the bluetooth sound quality. Yes, it's that good. Fight me.

Bluetooth does have quite a lot of latency in all but the LDAC codec, so gaming through Bluetooth isn't advised.

In terms of battery life, Audeze rates these for around 10 hours of playback. While far from other wireless headphones, I find 10 hours to be enough for the majority of a day's use. I don't ever really past 8 hours of headphone use a day, so 10 hours is fine for me, especially when I'd be using these mainly through the USB mode.



*Microphone:*

At the time I was sent these, I had a pre-release and a final release Mobius models, and mixed up the microphones, so I'm not certain which was which. I don't feel comfortable giving microphone impressions, so I truly apologize for those looking for this.



*Audeze HQ Software:*

This program is where you can customize all manner of things on the Mobius that can't be accessed on the headset itself. Before describing the main sections, let me talk about the right section which has indicators of whether the Mobius is turned on/off, which mode the 3D is in (Off, Manual, Auto), the battery percentage, the mic volume level/mute, and whether the device is connected through USB. The top right of the software has a question mark button which sends you to an Audeze webpage with Mobius technical questions (worth looking into if you still have questions about many aspects of the Mobius).

As for the software's sections themselves...


HTRF Personalization:

Here you have sliders for 3 settings: Head Circumference, Inter-Aural Arc, and Room Ambience. These are important in giving you the best experiences with the 3D audio. Head Circumference and Inter-Aural arc settings are done in inches and I suggest a measuring tape to get proper sizes. Room Ambience goes from 0-100, and drastically changes how the virtual surround dsp sounds in soundstage size and reverb. I believe the default is 35. I personally use 50 which has a little more reverb, but gives positional cues some room between me and the edge of the soundstage.

This section also has a 3D model of a head that gives you current pitch, yaw, and roll of the headset as you move your head about. This will reset and centralize when you press the 3D button on the headset when in 7ch or Stereo modes. Hi-Res mode can't be adjusted as it disables headtracking functions, though the software still picks up the headtracking movement.


Sound Profiles:

This section makes it easier to change between the various EQ presets. Flat, Default, Foot Steps, Ballistics, Music, Racing, RPG, Warm. As stated in the beginning, Default is...the default option, although in the software, Flat comes before default.


Device Info:

This section informs you of the software's version, as well as an image of the headset's outline describing various areas of the headset itself.


Firmware:

A simple section describing firmware version, as well as a button where you can update the firmware of the headset itself. The method of updating sends you to another site which personally could've been made easier, as it tells you to copy to google drive, log in, and some other steps which I found a minor hassle. That being said, the update process itself is painless and easy and only requires the headset be placed flat, pads face down until the process is complete, and only needs a power cycle.


Final software impressions:

The Audeze HQ software is quite simple, intuitive, and attractive. I do wish the right section could also be adjusted here instead of just being indicators, though that's just a minor gripe. I sometimes forget, and try to toggle the 3D mode here in the software which is impossible. All in all, it's a no frills, easy to understand program. It is worth installing mainly because it is necessary for the HTRF customization. The EQ preset changes here is a nice bonus.



*Personal Recommendations:*

The Audeze Mobius is possibly the easiest product to recommend to everyone outside of console specific gamers. It's a stellar music headphone, gaming headset, and general media monster. Outside of possibly those who want something analytical, bass heavy/light, I don't see how ANYONE else would not consider these.

Even if you don't care about virtual surround, or even headtracking, the Mobius IS STILL a stellar audiophile headphone in both usb AND wireless bluetooth modes. I don't talk much about the aux cable mode, because bluetooth is so good, you won't find a need to connect a cable unless it's for the usb specific uses. I promise you.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Likes:

Planarmagnetic
Self driven (no dac/amp needed)
Wireless capability via Bluetooth
Great virtual surround
Amazing Headtracking
So much bang for the money
Stellar sound quality from usb AND bluetooth


Dislikes:

No full console capability outside of standard aux cable into controller on PS4. Not sure on XB1 or Switch, though if they have a headphone jack somewhere you'll get basic stereo capability.
Aux cable input isn't passive, so no benefit in using your own dac/amps.
Aux cable input may be unnecessary because bluetooth and USB sound quality is just that good.



*Final Impressions:*

Had Audeze released a barebones headset, that didn't have surround, headtracking, or even wireless capabilities, the Mobius would STILL get a full recommendation from me. Based off sound quality alone, I was instantly enamored by the Mobius. Audeze specifically asked for general concerns or advice for them on what I think needs fixing. I told them that I honestly wouldn't change a THING of its sonic traits. I mean, speaking purely in terms of sound signature and quality, the Mobius is 100% READY to go. I do NOT want anything about its inherent sound changed whatsoever.

How can I give critical feedback to a product I can find no real fault in?

It's been quite a while since the Mobius released from the early impressions I posted online. The noise floor issues have been fixed, the glitches have been ironed out. The Mobius is the complete, feature-rich, package.

I don't even want to begin trying to understand how Audeze was capable of cramming so much into a product like this that isn't worth a zillion dollars. I don't wanna know, I don't wanna ask. All I know is that it exists, and you absolutely should get it. Even if JUST for the Bluetooth, I'd argue for it.


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## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy Mobius can work wirelessly on PS4 using Creative BT-W2 bluetooth adapter.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 16, 2019)

Yethal said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Mobius can work wirelessly on PS4 using Creative BT-W2 bluetooth adapter.


 But would we want it to, considering that the Mobius doesn't do Apt-X, and particularly something fast like Apt-X Low Latency? I THINK LDAC is fast (maybe not), but I don't think the Creative BT-W2 has that.

I definitely don't recommend the Mobius for wireless gaming. Through USB/aux, yes. Bluetooth only for non-gaming purposes.

You could get  a transmitter that can take audio from spdif or analog audio and convert that to fast stream or apt-X LL, but for some reason, the Mobius didn't pick up ethe Fast Stream signal which was supposed to be picked up by anything that picks up standard SBC. Then again,m my PortaPro wireless didn't pick up Apt-X LL, despite it being AptX supported. The Grado GW100 I had temporarily picked up the AptX LL signal from the device, so I dunno why the Koss didn't. It's quite annoying really, as Fast Stream is fast, but it distorts quite easily, and sounds kinda garbo.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> But would we want it to, considering that the Mobius doesn't do Apt-X, and particularly something fast like Apt-X Low Latency? I THINK LDAC is fast (maybe not), but I don't think the Creative BT-W2 has that.
> 
> I definitely don't recommend the Mobius for wireless gaming. Through USB/aux, yes. Bluetooth only for non-gaming purposes.
> 
> You could get  a transmitter that can take audio from spdif or analog audio and convert that to fast stream or apt-X LL, but for some reason, the Mobius didn't pick up ethe Fast Stream signal which was supposed to be picked up by anything that picks up standard SBC. Then again,m my PortaPro wireless didn't pick up Apt-X LL, despite it being AptX supported. The Grado GW100 I had temporarily picked up the AptX LL signal from the device, so I dunno why the Koss didn't. It's quite annoying really, as Fast Stream is fast, but it distorts quite easily, and sounds kinda garbo.


Bt-w2 does aptx low latency but yeah, gaming on it would be suboptimal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A shame the Mobius doesn't have AptX support, though Audeze gave their reasons. One being it's a competitor to LDAC, which they chose.


----------



## caenlenfromOCN

Hmm, odd, the Mobius I had never had any bass at all on it, like literally none, just stock out of box on launch day. I am surprised to read your review of the bass section, I got a full refund though and only paid $249... not willing to pay $400 now just to see if software updates really fixed it. Heh. oh well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 16, 2019)

caenlenfromOCN said:


> Hmm, odd, the Mobius I had never had any bass at all on it, like literally none, just stock out of box on launch day. I am surprised to read your review of the bass section, I got a full refund though and only paid $249... not willing to pay $400 now just to see if software updates really fixed it. Heh. oh well



The Mobius page on Headfi even shows graphs that show just how linear and low the bass goes. Like the LCD2 before it. It rolls off below 20hz which is the inaudible range anyways.

Also, the bass does get lighter with the 3D audio turned on, which Audeze recommends you switch to Music/Warm presets to offset the loss.

Where I do sound testing of bass/mid/treble, it is without any 3D audio, eq, or anything. It is to gauge the sound in its most raw form with the default preset.

Is that the one you used or did you make the mistake of testing it in the FLAT preset? Flat is NOT the Mobius target sound preset. Default is.

It shouldn't drastically change the bass, but still. Also bass is VERY subjective. Since people think having a bass hump is what makes things bassy. There is a difference. Like I said in the review, this isn't basshead bass. It's present and linear. Feed it bassy music, it will sounds bassy, imho of course.


----------



## PurpleAngel

jkaz327 said:


> I jumped on the 58X Massdrop, haven't gotten them yet. Does anyone have an opinion on foam in or out for gaming (mostly fps)? I see many people saying foam out, just wondering if anyone has a differing opinion.


I'm not sure about the foam or FPS gaming with the HD58X, but they do sound NICE 
What source exactly are you going to be plugging them into?
(On-board audio, sound card, DAC/amp, gaming console, etc)


----------



## jkaz327

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm not sure about the foam or FPS gaming with the HD58X, but they do sound NICE
> What source exactly are you going to be plugging them into?
> (On-board audio, sound card, DAC/amp, gaming console, etc)



Thanks! I picked them up partially based on your suggestion from an early post I did in computer audio. I have ordered an SMSL M100 and a Liquid spark. I was really back and forth between that and the jds atom but i needed some cables so the spark saved me a few bucks. Any suggestion on spdif or usb for the M100?


----------



## PurpleAngel

jkaz327 said:


> Thanks! I picked them up partially based on your suggestion from an early post I did in computer audio. I have ordered an SMSL M100 and a Liquid spark. I was really back and forth between that and the jds atom but i needed some cables so the spark saved me a few bucks. Any suggestion on spdif or usb for the M100?


I usually order all my cables from Monoprice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 16, 2019)

I feel maybe I may have to start really looking into how I describe bass, because it seems my ears have changed from so many years before.

Deep, linear bass is pretty good to my ears, but I need to be more careful in describing that as bassy, since typical dynamic bass heavy headphones have that mid bass hump that is totally different from that, and I could see that coming from that, the Mobius wouldn't be 'bassy'.

I could understand how linear and deep =\= enough bass. Back in the day, I would've thought that wasn't enough bass.

I updated the review in sections referring to the bass to be more clear on what to expect, which is not a bass heavy, bass fuelded headphones.

Also added a snippet on battery life in the bluetooth section, as well as fixed some formatting errors.


----------



## Monsterzero

Back in the opening hours of the Mobius thread there was some hinting at a console version of the Mobius. Any updates on this?


----------



## chesebert

I would get the HyperX version with better mic for $300.


----------



## kpet82

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I feel maybe I may have to start really looking into how I describe bass, because it seems my ears have changed from so many years before.
> 
> Deep, linear bass is pretty good to my ears, but I need to be more careful in describing that as bassy, since typical dynamic bass heavy headphones have that mid bass hump that is totally different from that, and I could see that coming from that, the Mobius wouldn't be 'bassy'.
> 
> ...




I think your analysis regarding bass is spot on. However, the treble is unbareble for me. It is very shouty. It's not that it is to bright, and I´m no audiophile, but the presence region makes it completly unlistenable for me. Thats a shame, because I generally love the Audeze headphones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Sony supposedly bought Audiokinetic and will enforce 3D Audio massively with the PS5.


----------



## TeaShirt

Hi MLE!

I only recently got into headphones and my first fairly decent pair is Hifiman Sundara. I really like them but out of curiosity I’m looking for alternatives.

Have you tried Hifiman Sundara headphones? To my understanding Sundara is sort of successor to H400 but I hear people saying they aren’t really that similar. How close do you think Sundara and H400 are to each other in terms of how they sound?

While I like these very much sometimes I feel like bass could be somewhat deeper. I mainly intend to use headphones for music and single player games where immersion is top priority. Being able to pinpoint exact direction of steps etc is really not that important.

I’m interested in Audeze LCD-2. From your review and what I’ve read elsewhere it sound like LCD-2 might be worth trying. Do you think these might be good headphones for me for the forementioned purpose? If you’ve tried Sundara do you think these headphones would compliment each other or are they similar enough that it really isn’t worth it owning both of them?

Also is your review of LCD-2 of the first revision or the one with fazor elements? If you’ve experience with both revisions do you think they sound different to each other?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 17, 2019)

kpet82 said:


> I think your analysis regarding bass is spot on. However, the treble is unbareble for me. It is very shouty. It's not that it is to bright, and I´m no audiophile, but the presence region makes it completly unlistenable for me. Thats a shame, because I generally love the Audeze headphones.


I think that is mainly a subjective thing, as doing frequency tests, I didn't find anything sticking out too much, other than 3.2khz (which I could see being a problem for people) and I believe 8.5khz which still wasn't anything I'd find too hot.




TeaShirt said:


> Hi MLE!
> 
> I only recently got into headphones and my first fairly decent pair is Hifiman Sundara. I really like them but out of curiosity I’m looking for alternatives.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I haven't heard the Sundara.

The pairs of LCD2s I reviewed and the one I bought afterward were both pre-fazor. I don't know how close the LCD2C comes to that sound, so I can't say, but yes. The bass on the old LCD2 is absolutely GLORIOUS. Probably the best bass out of any headphone I've heard.

The Edition XX has a good amount of bass itself, though I do feel the LCD2's bass was more aggressive and in your face.

I loved the LCD2. Hurt the neck, but I loved it. LOL

If I could own one, I would.


----------



## Mani ATH 87

Mad Lust Envy said:


> This is the updated, finalized review of the Mobius.  I know the early impressions exist here and other places of head-fi, but this is the update, which will be added to the guide. Special thanks to  @Audeze, and @KMann, for the patience and the pair used for review.
> 
> I've unhidden/removed the spoiler tags per special request, as some people may not notice the review was hidden.
> 
> ...



No mention of the new ear pads? Doesn't the Mobius connect to the PS4 via USB?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 19, 2019)

Mani ATH 87 said:


> No mention of the new ear pads? Doesn't the Mobius connect to the PS4 via USB?


I was informed of the new ear pads AFTER I posted the review. I had been holding on to the Mobius in storage for like a year, and realized recently the review wasn't posted on the guide (the final review), so I spent the weekend retesting it, and fleshing out the early impressions to make it final.

I hadn't tested the ps4 this weekend, but iirc, it will only be picked up as a generic usb device. You won't get the full experience unless you use it on PC.

Audeze told me they're sending me the new pads soon.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Has anyone tested the brand new astro mixamp tr? Are there any reviews somewhere?

After the huge disappointment of the previous TR model I'd like to know what this new model is like in terms of surround sound...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 21, 2019)

Finally got the Modi 3, so I'm done with the Schiit M&M 3 stack, with the optical out from my Xonar U3 to the Modi 3 for Dolby Headphone and clean optical 24/96 signal when it suits my fancy, and usb for Modi 3 for stereo otherwise. Having just the Magni 3 hooked up to the G6 was triggering my OCD. Now my new issue is the lights aren't in the same place on the body of each. Why? Gah... That and there ain't an off switch, so I have to buy a usb cable that has an off toggle.

Before anyone asks, I didn't get the multibit because not only does it measure worse, but I only need an objectively good dac with transparency. The multibit treads on subjective preferences not objective ones. Not something I'd pay an extra $150 for. The thing I want to alter the sound is the headphones themselves not the source/amp.

Hell, I told myself I'd never buy another amp/dac since giving up all the older gear...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 22, 2019)

So I received one of those usb on/off dongles. They don't transmit data, so don't buy one for something like the GSX1000 or G6 where they get data and power through one usb. I would've liked for it to work with those as they are 'always on' even when my PC shuts off. Alas, doesn't work.

Thankfully, I mainly bought it for the Modi 3 (which has two usb inputs, one dedicated for just power), since the light on that thing illuminates the whole room, and needed a way to turn it off when not in use. But now I'll have to get all my audio information through my optical input, and no longer through the Modi's usb. Not a big deal since my Xonar U3 transmits 24/96 to it, so I'm fine with that.






@illram Reddit is a scary, misinformed place. HAHAHAH.

Looks like people just simply try to pander to the communities to get upvotes instead of actually trying to learn something new. I had to stop replying.

I really do get agitated when people dismiss virtual surround as a gimmick. But I do know when to just let ignorance be.

Like the argument that headphones only have two speakers. Well, yeah, we only have two ears....

It's about the way our ears perceive audio, not whether there needs to be multiple actual physical devices around you to achieve surround. I talk about the concept of binaural audio, and still get downvoted... sigh.

It's like religion. People grow up knowing only one thing, that anything that defies that one particular mindset is wrong and should be ignored.


----------



## headphonesonly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Reddit is a scary, misinformed place. HAHAHAH.


Reddit is full of hypocrites. They hate on Head-fi for having toxic elitist but from my experience, Reddit is even more toxic.


----------



## illram (Apr 22, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @illram Reddit is a scary, misinformed place. HAHAHAH.
> 
> Looks like people just simply try to pander to the communities to get upvotes instead of actually trying to learn something new. I had to stop replying.
> 
> ...



Yeah it's frustrating; if consumers were more educated on this issue, these products would sell more, and we would ultimately have a more robust ecosystem of headphones and headphone VSS tech if there was a more lucrative marketplace for it. I am pleased to see that r/headphones has for the most part come around on this issue however. I think the release of the Mobius made a few converts. Hopefully the next gen of consoles (e.g. PS5) push more 3D audio and "force" more people to discover this wonderful technology. Atmos and Sonic not really working so well out of the gate was a big missed opportunity in that regard, I feel like.

The thing I will always wonder about is this "pro gamer" thing lots of people reference. Someone always brings this up, i.e. that they don't use it. Having never been into that scene I have never really verified that nor taken the time to figure out, if true, why it is true. Because as we in this thread now, if you have properly working VSS, it is objectively superior to stereo sound and this stuff about stereo providing better positioning is nonsense. (Whether the game provides it natively or whether you do it via some other solution is a different and irrelevant issue).

My suspicions are:
1. A lot of the pro scene is CS, which has its own VSS solution. So this is moot for that game. (Is the HRTF setting used in tournaments?) Related, a lot of other pro games don't really have a use for it, like LoL or Starcraft or whatever.
2. Product endorsement deals
3. Tournament rules banning the use of VSS equipment (?)
4. Practical reality of headphone use in loud tournaments (i.e. wearing endorsement headphones over iem's that they are actually using for audio)
4. Plain old stubbornness and fear of trying something new. This would be the least satisfying explanation as I would have expected someone to have figured this out by now and discovered how advantageous it is.


----------



## mindbomb

I mean, it's irrelevant what individual people choose to do. One of the best Overwatch players, Kephrii, uses 400 dpi on his mouse, even though you can do a mathematical proof showing that 1600 dpi at 1/4 sensitivity would result in less pixel skipping. It's always better to try to understand the settings rather than blindly follow someone else.


----------



## illram (Apr 22, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> I mean, it's irrelevant what individual people choose to do. One of the best Overwatch players, Kephrii, uses 400 dpi on his mouse, even though you can do a mathematical proof showing that 1600 dpi at 1/4 sensitivity would result in less pixel skipping. It's always better to try to understand the settings rather than blindly follow someone else.



Well, analogizing it to any other pro sport, it's natural for people to assume that pro's do things a certain way because that is the best way to do it. Like in baseball, you're going to want to watch and emulate the swing mechanics of a good hitter, or in basketball you're going to want to take a fade away jumper like a pro does, etc. etc. There are some outliers who just do things their way and it works for them but there is by and large an objectively "best" way of doing certain things in all competitive sports, so it's natural for people to assume that if pros all use stereo without any VSS then well that must be the best way to do it. (Again, I have no idea if this is true, just that this is the "echo chamber" dogma you often get)

I could totally see gaming not really being up to the same level of analytical analysis as other pro sports, and if that is the reason we don't see more pervasive use of VSS, I can only assume it will inevitably take over at some point given its just objectively better if you use the right equipment.


----------



## Yethal

Of course reddit considers vss a gimmick, Zeos said so in one of his videos so it must be true.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I see there is still a strong sentiment against DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING.

You know when during a game you have a burning fire before you and turn around 360° to trace its audio VSS takes you much longer to assess the capacity of all the aural information because you have more directionality to process with your brain. Hardpanned stereo gaming is much faster. It'st just left, middle and right. While I make it out alive you guys will burn to death. If you were pro gamers like me you would have known this already.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> I see there is still a strong sentiment against DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING.
> 
> You know when during a game you have a burning fire before you and turn around 360° to trace its audio VSS takes you much longer to assess the capacity of all the aural information because you have more directionality to process with your brain. Hardpanned stereo gaming is much faster. It'st just left, middle and right. While I make it out alive you guys will burn to death. If you were pro gamers like me you would have known this already.


Toss this man over the railing. HE SPEWS LIES. 

You and the poverty 2 ear crew. I HEAR IN 4D


----------



## headphonesonly

Yethal said:


> Of course reddit considers vss a gimmick, Zeos said so in one of his videos so it must be true.


Zeos also praised the GSX. He also said the vss actually works but I guess that went through one ear and out the other


----------



## thewind32

headphonesonly said:


> Zeos also praised the GSX. He also said the vss actually works but I guess that went through one ear and out the other



Indeed. He even went as far to say that it is worth it to get a high-end pair of cans & double amp the GSX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm very, very new to Reddit, so I don't even know who Zeos is, but sounds like someone that knows at least something, if he agrees  that GSX is worth double amping for. Something his followers should take note of.


----------



## headphonesonly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm very, very new to Reddit, so I don't even know who Zeos is, but sounds like someone that knows at least something, if he agrees  that GSX is worth double amping for. Something his followers should take note of.


Zeos is a youtuber who also runs a subreddit. But he’s more known as Z Reviews on youtube. r/headphones hates him btw.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2019)

I can't even remember how I found my way to whatever thread was arguing against me about VSS, but seriously, I know almost nothing of reddit. I have never actually looked into r/headphones and probably found my way there through google, lol.

The upvote, self congratulatory agenda on there doesn't look appealing really. I think people would just post whatever makes them popular instead of actual informative discussions. People did not wanna hear what I had to say at all. Hahaha


----------



## headphonesonly (Apr 23, 2019)

heres the review. 32:30 is where he starts talking about the vss


----------



## thewind32 (Apr 23, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm very, very new to Reddit, so I don't even know who Zeos is, but sounds like someone that knows at least something, if he agrees  that GSX is worth double amping for. Something his followers should take note of.



He's quite the no-bull kind of reviewer / audio enthusiast. I can see why some people hate him, but I think he's worth listening to.

Here's an example of his attitude:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really like that guy's style, and from the little I've listened to him, I'm basically in total agreement with.

I didn't get to him talking about VSS so that may change, but so far, he knows what's up.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone i am just setting up Dolby Atmos for headphones and wondering if this is the best way to go. I Currently have the dt990's and debating on the sxfi amp or possibly the modius headsets. Any opinions or advice.

Also if i decide on sticking with Atmos should i invest in a decent amp/dac if so any recommendations i am currently using a syba sonic.

thanks again for the help


----------



## Yethal

headphonesonly said:


> Zeos also praised the GSX. He also said the vss actually works but I guess that went through one ear and out the other



Creative E5 starts at 4:56 if you're looking for the SBX part.
Ttbh he might as well have said that about GSX but I'm not cringeresistant enough to sit through an entire Zeos video so I can neither confirm nor disprove that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I could say, but in my system I can't get Atmos to work properly and I'm not confident I'm getting the actual experience. I really do need to reformat my PC completely.




stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone i am just setting up Dolby Atmos for headphones and wondering if this is the best way to go. I Currently have the dt990's and debating on the sxfi amp or possibly the modius headsets. Any opinions or advice.
> 
> Also if i decide on sticking with Atmos should i invest in a decent amp/dac if so any recommendations i am currently using a syba sonic.
> 
> thanks again for the help


----------



## Deders

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I wish I could say, but in my system I can't get Atmos to work properly and I'm not confident I'm getting the actual experience. I really do need to reformat my PC completely.



What's the problem you are having with getting Atmos to work?


----------



## Evshrug

Yethal said:


> Creative E5 starts at 4:56 if you're looking for the SBX part.
> Ttbh he might as well have said that about GSX but I'm not cringeresistant enough to sit through an entire Zeos video so I can neither confirm nor disprove that.



@5:50 “Bass boost - which they call SBX - ...”
IMO, SBX is more than just a bass boost.

@8:21, he spam clicks the volume knob before moving on. Uh, just in case you didn’t get it from the video, that is how you mute/unmute the E5.

@9:25 Z revisits “the bass boost,” calling it a “spectrum destroying room effect with echo.” Ok, now he’s getting closer to describing it, but missed the purpose of it (Surround, or at least “in front of you” effect).

And in general, he doesn’t like the E5 because the “sound quality sucks.” That’s about it, other than a featured list.

I wish Z had been more specific about what he didn’t like about the sound quality, describe the signature beyond just mentioning the (noteworthy, but most obvious on one of the hardest to drive headphones in the industry) distortion, so that people could have their own opinion other than just relying on his. To dismiss SBX as just a bad “bass boost” misses the point, and I’ll repeat what I said in my old reviews that anyone who gets a creative product CAN and SHOULD use the customization settings. SBX is a many-featured DSP suite, you CAN customize it to just be a bass boost (that performs much better than stock), but the main reason why someone would consider an E5 (or G6) would be for gaming and the Surround processing.

I can’t really write reviews anymore (but maybe soon), but I can point to specific parts of old reviews of mine before I became an industry insider: If you look at my Creative reviews, I mentioned being happy that I could upgrade the X7’s opamps and said it made a significant difference, and in general I had some issues with treble harshness (maybe best with warm headphones? Back in the day, before upgrading my X7 opamps, I often used a tube amp, and made SURE I turned off Crystalizer etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2019)

Deders said:


> What's the problem you are having with getting Atmos to work?



I think HeSuVi or the Equalizer APO or the V-cable programs/drivers even after having deleted them have affected Windows and its ability to get Sonic and Atmos to work.

Let's say Atmos was Creative SBX. Enabling Atmos on, is like turning SBX to the surround setting of like....5 out of a 100. The change is so subtle, it just doesn't feel like it's actually doing what it's supposed to. Same with Sonic.

While I tested HeSuVi back in the day, its Atmos actually felt like a real surround dsp, so I have to believe the real experience is supposed to be closer to that.

I just REALLY don't want to go through the hassle of a complete reformat to wipe the system of any deeply seeded driver problems.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2019)

Evshrug said:


> @5:50 “Bass boost - which they call SBX - ...”
> IMO, SBX is more than just a bass boost.
> 
> @8:21, he spam clicks the volume knob before moving on. Uh, just in case you didn’t get it from the video, that is how you mute/unmute the E5.
> ...




Oof, yeah. That is a definite point of contention that I would bring up and probably get spam downvoted on Reddit for. LOL


----------



## conquerator2

No matter how folks feel about Zeos, he's got a point from time to time!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

conquerator2 said:


> No matter how folks feel about Zeos, he's got a point from time to time!


Hey old man, where you been!?


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ...
> I just REALLY don't want to go through the hassle of a complete reformat to wipe the system of any deeply seeded driver problems.


*I hear ya buddy!*


Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oof, yeah. That is a definite point of contention that I would bring up and probably get spam downvoted on Reddit for. LOL


I have a hard time getting into Reddit. Lots of people wanting to tell jokes, which is fine, but also trash talking on a whole ‘nother level from what we used to do back in Halo 3 and CoD4 lobbies!



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey old man, where you been!?


He’s come to America! Living in LA currently, might move to Austin?


----------



## Deders

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think HeSuVi or the Equalizer APO or the V-cable programs/drivers even after having deleted them have affected Windows and its ability to get Sonic and Atmos to work.
> 
> Let's say Atmos was Creative SBX. Enabling Atmos on, is like turning SBX to the surround setting of like....5 out of a 100. The change is so subtle, it just doesn't feel like it's actually doing what it's supposed to. Same with Sonic.
> 
> ...



Yeah I've been putting off reformatting for years now.  Used to do it every 6 months or so back in the 98 days.

I noticed that too when testing out HeSuVi on the Mobius without switching it to one of the stereo modes.  It seems that one surround effect almost cancels out another.

I'm not familiar with V-cable (is it like a patch bay for Windows audio, allowing you to route audio wherever instead of just to one output?  I might have used it years ago) But I did try out Equaliser Apo, I remember disabling it with the tick box near the top because I didn't want it to do anything, I only wanted to try out the different HeSuVi renditions.  The tick box was still unchecked when I uninstalled it and I have no issues.  Maybe reinstalling it and disabling it before uninstalling it might do the trick?


----------



## conquerator2

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey old man, where you been!?



I never really left really. I've still been music focused, just didn't have the budget nor resources to explore much lately... Life happens and what not. 

Anyway I am temporarily in LA and as Evs pointed out  might move to Austin temporarily as well, but I'd much rather continue my travel up North if circumstances allow. 

But yes, headphones! There're plenty on my radar I'd love to hear and a couple I'd love to have a more extended listen with 

Hope you're doing good as well, old dog!


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I just REALLY don't want to go through the hassle of a complete reformat to wipe the system of any deeply seeded driver problems.


You can make it a bit less of a hassle by installing Chocolatey. It won't magically move all your data but it will at least automate software provisioning.


----------



## illram

If you have Black Ops 4 (it's a free demo until April 30) its Theater Mode is actually pretty neat for testing VSS. It's a replay function that maintains all surround channels in the gameplay, and it has a freecam mode where the audio POV follows the freecam. (Unlike, from what I can tell, Xbox's or Window's DVR function.) 

I was, for example, able to definitively confirm Windows Sonic is still useless unless your media/game has an Atmos mix. Yay.


----------



## halcyon

I have not seen this covered objectively and extensively before:

Has anybody measured in-game sound latency with various drivers, virtualizers and sound-cards?

I know there can be quite a bit of difference in delay, just based on my experience with different Kmixer/ASIO/DirectX -pathways in Windows alone.

Adding CPU based processing (Perhaps several different ones like EQ, VSS, etc as a chain) could in theory add quite a bit of delay into the sound.

Now, how much is this delay? I don't know. I'd like to see measurements.

Does this delay matter? We don't really know for sure, I can't find proper objective scientific papers on the subject, but I'd surmise that once we start to go well beyond 60ms, there is at least the possibility of sound/video sync mismatch, not to mention losing out on possible early audible cues in 3D GPS games.

So, has anybody seen these measured? Just basic Signal sent to Voltage outputted (via the soundcard) measurements?


----------



## Yethal

halcyon said:


> I have not seen this covered objectively and extensively before:
> 
> Has anybody measured in-game sound latency with various drivers, virtualizers and sound-cards?
> 
> ...


Battlenonsense has a video about that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 24, 2019)

Considering the latency my display has, it can't be a simple thing to measure in terms of what is acceptable and what isn't, since visual information being tied to audio information is gonna be very different on a per user basis. I'd assume it'd have to be in the real of 40ms to be mostly synced on most displays.


----------



## halcyon

Yethal said:


> Battlenonsense has a video about that.



Thanks found this video analysis of his for Overwatch with RealTek onboard audio in-game audio delay


Looks like a very common audio delay (from input activation to mesurable audio output) is c. 180-210 ms in many FPS 3D games with his setup, whether VSS is active OR not.

That is huge.

It would be interesting to find out, if this can be lowered at all with different sound cards. Clearly the in-game settings AND the soundpath (DirectSound) both appear to set a lower limit for the delay, below which it is probably impossible to get.

But even getting this down to 60ms would be a great feat.


----------



## Clean6eR

halcyon said:


> Thanks found this video analysis of his for Overwatch with RealTek onboard audio in-game audio delay
> 
> 
> Looks like a very common audio delay (from input activation to mesurable audio output) is c. 180-210 ms in many FPS 3D games with his setup, whether VSS is active OR not.
> ...




When i use the x7 and enable and disable the sbx on it while watching youtube videos i obviously hear the echo that's added to a stereo source but ignoring that i also notice a delay with the sync between there mouths moving and what I'm hearing. it drives me insane (as does the echo on stereo sources!), this is the reason i game in plain stereo, i find my onyx blackjack usb interface is quite snappy but i struggle to notice a difference between that and the on-board sound delay wise i get a felling the usb card is slower, but that's probably a psychological thing more than a real thing, how could i test the difference? 

if i wrote a program that takes the time then plays a file while monitoring a line in for a signal and when it detects it capture time and subtract one form another but there seems to be soooo much wrong with that, it would also depend on the capture devices latency in itself but using the same capture device and then taking the output from other cards would allow me to tell which is faster than the other but id still have no good idea as to how fast they actually are just which is faster than which. it seems a bit errr unscientific, this is an area I'm VERY interested in however!

if you use a usb connected sound card id assume the ports polling will play a factor too, mice (office grade ones) poll at 125hz(8ms delay) where as gaming grade ones poll like 1000hz (1ms delay) and some even up to 2000hz (0.5ms delay) i suppose the area of 1-10ms makes next to no noticeable difference? these mouse people "overclock" their ports to push them into that crazy 2000hz range, wonder if that would impact usb soundcards...


----------



## illram

I've never noticed any delay with the X7, G6, or any Creative product really. I always connect it via USB to my PC and optical to my Xbox. 

I've only ever been able to notice a difference with a crappy bluetooth connection.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Same here. I don't think there's really anything to worry about in terms of audio delay with anything that ain't Bluetooth.

I'd be way more worried about display lag, which is WILDLY variable even on the same display.


----------



## osirus35

chesebert said:


> I would get the HyperX version with better mic for $300.


I have the Mobius  and for the most part I love it EXCEPT... and this is a almost a deal breaker for me. You either have to use it in USB mode or charge it every couple of hours. So for me since I have an X7 and use the headphone jack I have to charge the headphone and use like my Fidelio X2s while they are charging


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 24, 2019)

It has a 10 hour battery life. How the hell are people running out of battery so quickly...

I definitely don't use headphones that long. Maybe 8 hours total a day on my days off, and that's for gaming. In Bluetooth, I'd likely use that even less. Well, for a full size headphone. I do use my PortaPro wireless every work day for over 6 hours.

I'd never approach anything close to 10 hours otherwise.


----------



## Deders

Yeah, if you're not getting close to 10 hours on your Mobius, you should take it up with support, they would be happy to help.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Same here. I don't think there's really anything to worry about in terms of audio delay with anything that ain't Bluetooth.
> 
> I'd be way more worried about display lag, which is WILDLY variable even on the same display.



It is difficult to notice something, that the sensory system is accustomed to (i.e. when you don't have a baseline to compare to).

It is easy to get measurements for input lag, display lag and pixel response delay on most gaming monitors. Professionally done, along with variance. We know it is possible to get down to sub 5ms levels in displays.

In sound cards in fast paced 3D shooters, the measured latency has already been shown to be 200+ ms. This is 40 times as long delay. That is considerable. Especially when we know from sensory evaluation that sound can work as as a priming cue for vision (i.e. you hear the sounds first, then your gaze is directed and focused on that direction of the sound).

The problem is that we don't have professional measurements for variance of card-to-card differences in sound delay.

Claiming that you haven't heard it, or that is is nothing to worry about, doesn't make this issue go away NOR diminish the fact that it is measurably at least 40x as large as display lag (currently).


----------



## Fegefeuer (Apr 25, 2019)

Interesting planar headphone. Could it give MLE both a deep earthshattering welcome and a bit of zingyness?

For 169 Dollars it hopefully turns out to be a bargain like a few other Takstar headphones.

















https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...w-distortion-powerful/314156_32997885429.html


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> Interesting planar headphone. Could it give MLE both a deep earthshattering welcome and a bit of zingyness?
> 
> For 169 Dollars it hopefully turns out to be a bargain like a few other Takstar headphones.
> 
> ...


I wanted to ask whether this is chinese clone of Hifiman but then I realized HiFiMan is already chinese


----------



## headphonesonly

I guess the driver is pretty similar to the sendy aiva. Definitely interested in this. No detachable cable unfortunately.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

All I see from that graph is headache inducing highs.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fegefeuer said:


> Interesting planar headphone. Could it give MLE both a deep earthshattering welcome and a bit of zingyness?
> For 169 Dollars it hopefully turns out to be a bargain like a few other Takstar headphones.
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...l?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.588a29f6bqcyyO


I'm so temped to buy this, just to try it out 
Maybe try different ear pads with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DrKrFfXx said:


> All I see from that graph is headache inducing highs.


Those graphs may not be compensated. Rawer graphs tend to be harder for me to read. Almost all raw graphs look too bright to me when they may be neutral to slightly south of neutral. I'm only making an assumption and they may be hella bright....

Though looks like the peak is at 10khz, which IMHO is not the worst area for peaks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 26, 2019)

550g.... Holy smokes are they made out of a vehicle? That's probably the heaviest headphone I've seen yet.

But man the cloth pads look glorious. I want them just to have and swap around.

If anyone knows of they would sell the pads separately....I WANT THEM.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 550g.... Holy smokes are they made out of a vehicle? That's probably the heaviest headphone I've seen yet.
> 
> But man the cloth pads look glorious. I want them just to have and swap around.
> 
> If anyone knows of they would sell the pads separately....I WANT THEM.


Cough...cough...lcd-4...cough...cough


----------



## Fegefeuer

They actually come with an additional pair of earpads called cotton earpads. 
Separately some time later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 26, 2019)

Lol, I really should ask Sankar to make an LCD planar out of cheap plastic to lower the weight.



Fegefeuer said:


> They actually come with an additional pair of earpads called cotton earpads.
> Separately some time later.



I edited my last post with those, lol. That's MAINLY what I want out of this, hahaha. The cotton pads look like the greatest pads ever concocted.


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Lol, I really should ask Sankar to make an LCD planar out of cheap plastic to lower the weight.


It's called the Mobius. 

Seriously though, it does sound like it belongs as a member of the LCD family to my ears.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 26, 2019)

AxelCloris said:


> It's called the Mobius.
> 
> Seriously though, it does sound like it belongs as a member of the LCD family to my ears.


I don't disagree. Other than the fact that it's closed, and of a different shape, it's very LCD2 like give or take a few frequencies. You can't mistake the Audeze sound from it. The only thing that would make the Mobius better for me would be a pad change, and open back design. Oh and DEFINITELY a passive mode for the Aux input that doesn't use the internal dac/amp of the Mobius, but I know that's a limitation with the design they went with. I know people would have loved to use their own gear for it.

I had done a pad swap, but it made the Mobius too clampy. It'd definitely have to be something specifically designed for the Mobius that wasn't leather padded.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm contemplating placing an order for those new gel-filled ear pads on their site for use with mine. I know it's not cloth, so it wouldn't check your boxes perfectly, but it might be worth looking into from a comfort stand point. If I do decide to make the jump, I might order a pair this weekend or next week.

https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/gel-filled-ear-pads-mobius


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 26, 2019)

AxelCloris said:


> I'm contemplating placing an order for those new gel-filled ear pads on their site for use with mine. I know it's not cloth, so it wouldn't check your boxes perfectly, but it might be worth looking into from a comfort stand point. If I do decide to make the jump, I might order a pair this weekend or next week.
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/gel-filled-ear-pads-mobius


I believe Sankar told me he was sending them out to me soon-ish for impressions, so I'll def let you guys know how they fare compared to the stock pads. Considering the stock pads are actually really good on comfort for a pleather pad, I have high hopes these will be at least as good if not better.

I find it weird that you have to select your Mobius color. Aren't the pads just black? Lol. Maybe some stitching or something has the copper/blue colors.

edit: I'm dumb, it's the mounting plastic that def has the color accent. Here's hoping he sent the right color (copper).


----------



## AxelCloris

Oh nice, since you're going to be getting a pair, I'll just wait until you've had a chance to play with them before jumping. I'm not in a rush. I've been playing with a new toy that arrived recently (not gaming related), so between that and the Matrix Audio Element M I'm currently borrowing from the office, I have a number of things to occupy my free time. Looking forward to your impressions of those new gel pads.


----------



## HairyHook

AxelCloris said:


> I'm contemplating placing an order for those new gel-filled ear pads on their site for use with mine. I know it's not cloth, so it wouldn't check your boxes perfectly, but it might be worth looking into from a comfort stand point. If I do decide to make the jump, I might order a pair this weekend or next week.
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/accessories/gel-filled-ear-pads-mobius


They are cooler than stock pads, and thinner. With the new pads, my left ear touches the inside and that never happened with stock. They advertise better sealing and I wear glasses so I decided to give it a try. Sealing to me looks almost identical and I haven't heard sonic differences between both sets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HairyHook said:


> They are cooler than stock pads, and thinner. With the new pads, my left ear touches the inside and that never happened with stock. They advertise better sealing and I wear glasses so I decided to give it a try. Sealing to me looks almost identical and I haven't heard sonic differences between both sets.


Sounds to me more like it's mainly about altering the heat dissipation than any sonic benefit or whatnot.


----------



## HairyHook

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sounds to me more like it's mainly about altering the heat dissipation than any sonic benefit or whatnot.


Let us know what you think when you get them, I'm not the best doing A/B comparisons.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't expect anything truly noticeable since when I used the 1540 alcantara pads, it still sounded like the Mobius to me. As long as pad seal and distance is similar, I doubt I'll hear a diff.


----------



## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sounds to me more like it's mainly about altering the heat dissipation than any sonic benefit or whatnot.





HairyHook said:


> Let us know what you think when you get them, I'm not the best doing A/B comparisons.



I too don't feel I'm much of an expert at detecting sonic differences between pads, but from my time with them so far, they basically sound the same.  That said, I do find the gel pads to seal a bit better with my glasses, especially on my left ear.  And yeah, they're cool (almost cold) when I first put them on and seem to not warm up as much from trapped body heat.


----------



## Evshrug




----------



## Yethal

Evshrug said:


>


Now that we have you in here, will Dekoni make Mobius earpads?


----------



## HiCZoK

I've been using e10k and Koss Porta Pro for a few years now and while I do love the sound, I am curious to try other stuff, maybe wireless considering I also play on ps4.
I only play single player games - that is all exclusives on ps4 and everything else 4k on pc. Short - I like to immerse myself but not get hot sweaty ears - so porta pro. I also listen to a lot of game soundtracks and generally music without vocal. I like fun, bassy sound. Porta pro does not shake but is ok with bass boost on with e10k.
Now - I've been also baffled about 3d audio/7.1 vss and atmos stuff. Some headsets market ps4 3d audio, other 7.1. On pc some games have "dolby atmos" option like Shadow of the Tomb raider but it don't say what does it do and if I need to enable it in windows or what. It's quite confusing.
I used dolby headphone years ago with xonar card and it ruined the quality of the sound.

Now - my understanding is that only Sony official gold and platinum headsets support ps4 3d audio. But do these do 7.1 vss on pc? I think there is a single usb dongle and it works on both pc and ps4. There are also hyperx and corsair headsets. I dont need a mic btw


----------



## Deders (Apr 28, 2019)

HiCZoK said:


> On pc some games have "dolby atmos" option like Shadow of the Tomb raider but it don't say what does it do and if I need to enable it in windows or what. It's quite confusing.



You need to enable it in the properties of the audio device you are using for the game within windows


----------



## illram (Apr 28, 2019)

HiCZoK said:


> I've been using e10k and Koss Porta Pro for a few years now and while I do love the sound, I am curious to try other stuff, maybe wireless considering I also play on ps4.
> I only play single player games - that is all exclusives on ps4 and everything else 4k on pc. Short - I like to immerse myself but not get hot sweaty ears - so porta pro. I also listen to a lot of game soundtracks and generally music without vocal. I like fun, bassy sound. Porta pro does not shake but is ok with bass boost on with e10k.
> Now - I've been also baffled about 3d audio/7.1 vss and atmos stuff. Some headsets market ps4 3d audio, other 7.1. On pc some games have "dolby atmos" option like Shadow of the Tomb raider but it don't say what does it do and if I need to enable it in windows or what. It's quite confusing.
> I used dolby headphone years ago with xonar card and it ruined the quality of the sound.
> ...



Bassier headphone upgrades <$200 that I have personally tried: HD598, Fidelio X2/X2HR, VModa M100. The VModa's are very bassy but are closed. The Fidelio's are bassy but open. The HD598 are dark, not necessarily bass cannons and not as bassy  as either of those, but you will get a warmer signature. These are all well regarded headphones with good qualities for gaming, and easily driven by your E10k.

If you want to break the bank and want some deep bass in an amazing headphone try the LCD2C or the Fostex TR-X00.

Your 3d audio questions are answered on the first page of this thread.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 28, 2019)

I wouldn't get the HD598 if you want a bassy sound. They're warm but I wouldn't say bass is a main distinction for them.

The 598 is a headphone I wish I could revisit because I honestly didn't have a lot of time to form a truly accurate impression. Almost to the point that I wanna delete the listing of it on my guide.

Tbh, there's so many I would delete, mainly because I had done those 'reviews' back when the guide was meant to be a sort of checklist and simple guideline on what is good and what isn't with a few notes on why. I really don't know how it turned into doing full reviews, but it makes the guide itself incredibly inconsistent.


----------



## headphonesonly

The Monoprice Retros are the best bass cans for under $100. Dekoni Blues are another that have crazy powerful bass. I’ve ordered the Modhouse argons a week ago so I can’t wait to try those out.


----------



## illram (Apr 29, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I wouldn't get the HD598 if you want a bassy sound. They're warm but I wouldn't say bass is a main distinction for them.
> 
> The 598 is a headphone I wish I could revisit because I honestly didn't have a lot of time to form a truly accurate impression. Almost to the point that I wanna delete the listing of it on my guide.
> 
> Tbh, there's so many I would delete, mainly because I had done those 'reviews' back when the guide was meant to be a sort of checklist and simple guideline on what is good and what isn't with a few notes on why. I really don't know how it turned into doing full reviews, but it makes the guide itself incredibly inconsistent.



Your take on the 598 remains accurate, don't delete it. (Don't delete any of your reviews! They're all good.) They are warm, but not bass heavy. I just feel remiss not recommending them in any "affordable" list if I can get away with it, since they are so good. (IMHO.) I feel like coming from a porta pro you'd get the improved staging and imaging, and you wouldn't be losing any bass, I don't think. And I am a huge porta pro's fan...

I am curious to try the Massdrop 58X as lots of people have chimed in that they are better than the 598 for affordable gaming cans, which I find hard to believe, but I'm always open to being wrong.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh for sure, the 598 is a definite step up from the PortaPro, for the things you've stated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Ananda arrived today. (Through the loaner tour currently happening)







I'm definitely gonna need some time to hear the differences here...

A few things to note:

1. The Ananda needs a smidge less on the volume pot compared to the Edition XX. A smidge.

2. The Ananda weighs 21g less (399g) but I honestly can't tell the difference in weight. Both are acceptable due to even weight distribution.

3. I don't know if it's because of the many more hours on the Edition XX, but the Ananda clamps slightly little more on my head, and the suspension headband has a little bit more presence on my head. Both are quite comfortable, regardless. The size adjustment on the Ananda's headband is a lot like Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990. They grip HARD, and leave marks between each dot.






4. The cups and pads are nigh identical. The only differences for me would be that the 'glue' used on the Ananda is darker than the XX. The headband is obviously different and higher quality on the Ananda.

5. The Ananda comes with two cables. One shorter one that is similar to the one used on the XX, which terminates into a right angled 3.5mm plug with a 1/4" snap on adapter. The other is quite a bit longer and terminates into a beefy straight 1/4" plug (the XX does not come with this cable). The cables are similar to the XX cable, but they are see through (you can see the inner wires), whereas the XX cable is see through but covered with an inner sleeve of some kind. Also the dual 3.5mm mono plugs that connect on the headphone side are silver on the Ananda, and black on the XX.

I'm on a Modi 3/Magni 3 combo. As far as sound goes... that's gonna take some time. They definitely share similar sound, though there are differences. Whether that's due to difference in clamp, hours used, impedance/sensitivity/volume, drivers, I certainly can't say. That's gonna take time. It definitely sounds great though.

I don't like doing straight comparisons because it's simply hard to A/B due to length of time changing between them, and not being able to match the volume precisely. I will certainly be able to hear differences in frequency tests through sinegen however, which should make it a little easier to know what's different at least there.


----------



## thewind32

I know headphones with narrow soundstage aren't recommended for gaming, but is that still the case when using virtual surround, such as GSX 1000/X7/etc?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Virtual surround will always benefit headphones when gaming. They just tend to work even better when a headphone already has good soundstage characteristics.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think HeSuVi or the Equalizer APO or the V-cable programs/drivers even after having deleted them have affected Windows and its ability to get Sonic and Atmos to work.
> 
> Let's say Atmos was Creative SBX. Enabling Atmos on, is like turning SBX to the surround setting of like....5 out of a 100. The change is so subtle, it just doesn't feel like it's actually doing what it's supposed to. Same with Sonic.
> 
> ...



Are you enabling Atmos / Windows Sonic and then leaving the main windows sound settings as-is? Because that's pretty much what needs to be done otherwise they turn themselves off.
Enabling Atmos and Sonic defaults the speaker/channel configuration to stereo and the sample rate and bit depth to 16 bit and 48khz (DVD quality). If you subsequently change the channel configuration in the Windows sound manager to anything beyond stereo (e.g. 5.1 or 7.1) and/or if you change the sample rate / bit depth whether upwards or downwards, then Atmos/Sonic will turn themselves off.

Thanks for your work on the guide btw. Has been most helpful.

You might also like to check out 3D Boom. It's a software surround solution for PC and has a free demo. For "out of your head" factor it has been one of the most impressive software-only solutions I have come across. If you do give it a go, just be mindful of the other enhacement features offered, when I gave it a whirl there seemed to be some kind of bug whereby messing with any of those would turn the 3D sound dial off. Best just to set the 3D dial to 100 and leave everything else as is, although they may have since fixed that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 1, 2019)

Nah, I already knew that changing the settings would turn Atmos/Sonic back off. That's definitely not the issue.

More like the effect is barely engaged, like if it was Dolby Headphone, it'd be Dolby Headphone room 0.25 or something.


----------



## Deders

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nah, I already knew that changing the settings would turn Atmos/Sonic back off. That's definitely not the issue.
> 
> More like the effect is barely engaged, like if it was Dolby Headphone, it'd be Dolby Headphone room 0.25 or something.



Did you try my suggestion a few posts back?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Deders said:


> Did you try my suggestion a few posts back?


Installing Equalizer APO, disabling it, and then uninstalling? No, I didn't try that. Gotta remember to try that when I get home.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys, so something has to be said. I recently got the Ananda on loaner, and while it's not exactly like the XX, it's close enough that I honestly don't feel the need to do a full review of it. So I'm considering repurposing MOST of the XX review with copypasta and rewording some things here or there to account for some differences. Is that ok, or will it upset you guys that a lot of the XX review was pasted for the Ananda? I almost feel like not doing it, but perhaps having it on the guide will help those who wanna know about it specifically.

I'm currently very busy with about 3 other products in the near future, and taking so much time just to microanalyze the Ananda despite my feeling that it's slightly better than the XX but more similar than not, is just not a good use of my time.

Please let me know what you think.


----------



## stavros.m (May 3, 2019)

i am just curious has anyone tried the new Astro Mixamp Pro TR, i am between this and the creative G6. Also for the creative G6 a completely noob question do you double amp it like its recommended for gsx 1000. Also i am trying dolby access and having issues it works when connected to my soundcard on my pc but not from a the syba sonic amp/dac. Is it possible for some amp/dac to stop dolby atmos.

Thanks again for all the help


----------



## Shibbymaru (May 3, 2019)

Hi everyone.
I created an acc for one reason to say THANK YOU Mad Lust for this great guide! I bought the AKG K712 PRO in pair with the Creative Sound Blaster G6 and I'm amazed. They work and sound perfect (I play FPS games and listen to Drum'n'Bass a lot) Been using them for almost 6 months now.
Before I purchased them I've spent almost 3 days without sleep  thanks!


----------



## Yethal (May 4, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, so something has to be said. I recently got the Ananda on loaner, and while it's not exactly like the XX, it's close enough that I honestly don't feel the need to do a full review of it. So I'm considering repurposing MOST of the XX review with copypasta and rewording some things here or there to account for some differences. Is that ok, or will it upset you guys that a lot of the XX review was pasted for the Ananda? I almost feel like not doing it, but perhaps having it on the guide will help those who wanna know about it specifically.
> 
> I'm currently very busy with about 3 other products in the near future, and taking so much time just to microanalyze the Ananda despite my feeling that it's slightly better than the XX but more similar than not, is just not a good use of my time.
> 
> Please let me know what you think.


I think if you just retitle it as Ananda & Edition XX review and add paragraphs highlighting the difference it will be fine.



stavros.m said:


> i am just curious has anyone tried the new Astro Mixamp Pro TR, i am between this and the creative G6. Also for the creative G6 a completely noob question do you double amp it like its recommended for gsx 1000. Also i am trying dolby access and having issues it works when connected to my soundcard on my pc but not from a the syba sonic amp/dac. Is it possible for some amp/dac to stop dolby atmos.
> 
> Thanks again for all the help


You don't have to double amp the G6, it has a dedicated line output on the back (and an optical out if you'd like to add an external dac to it).


----------



## PurpleAngel

stavros.m said:


> i am just curious has anyone tried the new Astro Mixamp Pro TR, i am between this and the creative G6. Also for the creative G6 a completely noob question do you double amp it like its recommended for gsx 1000. Also i am trying Dolby access and having issues it works when connected to my sound card on my PC but not from a the syba sonic amp/dac. Is it possible for some amp/dac to stop Dolby Atmos. Thanks again for all the help


For PC use, go for the Creative Labs G6,
for gaming console, leaning towards the Astro Mix-amp


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys, so something has to be said. I recently got the Ananda on loaner, and while it's not exactly like the XX, it's close enough that I honestly don't feel the need to do a full review of it. So I'm considering repurposing MOST of the XX review with copypasta and rewording some things here or there to account for some differences. Is that ok, or will it upset you guys that a lot of the XX review was pasted for the Ananda? I almost feel like not doing it, but perhaps having it on the guide will help those who wanna know about it specifically.
> 
> I'm currently very busy with about 3 other products in the near future, and taking so much time just to microanalyze the Ananda despite my feeling that it's slightly better than the XX but more similar than not, is just not a good use of my time.
> 
> Please let me know what you think.



You could include a section for it but just say pretty much what you just said. I.e. "refer to my XX review, the only differences are x,y,z" or whatever.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The main reason I sort of need them separate is because both reviews were asked for by two companies. Massdrop wanted my thoughts on the XX, and the Ananda loaner tour had a stipulation that I'd write about it. I think merging both isn't ideal at least when it comes to their asking of me. I've more ir less written out what I need to about the Ananda but just need a little of time making it a little more different. Didn't help that it was at the start of my work week, so my focus isn't 100%


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The main reason I sort of need them separate is because both reviews were asked for by two companies. Massdrop wanted my thoughts on the XX, and the Ananda loaner tour had a stipulation that I'd write about it. I think merging both isn't ideal at least when it comes to their asking of me. I've more ir less written out what I need to about the Ananda but just need a little of time making it a little more different. Didn't help that it was at the start of my work week, so my focus isn't 100%


Soo, a copy&paste with a disclaimer?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal said:


> Soo, a copy&paste with a disclaimer?


My man. Pretty much.


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## saifulmy (May 5, 2019)

Finally I just brought G6.
1. I just want to ask, what the best setting using G6? I used on AC Odyssey XBox, but the sound feel like it came from speaker like echo some sort. I'm using on all platform, ps4, Xbox, Switch and PC. 
2. another information, i'm using this hdmi switch, 3 in and 1 out with Spdif output will it cause any performance?
3. Lastly, why the G6 setting surround sound always show grey when i using on PC but when using PS4 and Xbox the Dolby light on G6 is light up, it is ok?


----------



## jubeishock

Fidelio X2HR or AKG K7XX ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

Please read the disclaimers. A lot of this review comes from the XX review, though enough has changed, where it's not identical in the most important areas, mainly sound.

----------
----------

*HiFiMAN Ananda*







$849 as of May 1st, 2019, ($999 msrp)

*Where To Buy*: Amazon.com, Headphones.com, Hifiman



Spoiler: Review



_*Disclaimer 1: A special thanks to HiFiMAN for sending these out as part of a loaner tour. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.*_

*Disclaimer 2: Due to how recent the Edition XX reviews was to this one, and how similar I find them to be, there WILL be some pasting and re-wording of that review here, as I feel the similarities are close enough that I don't feel the need to outright do a completely 'blank slate' review of the Ananda. If that bothers you, I apologize, but it was either that or just not review the Ananda and give brief impressions instead, since most of what I feel about it is exactly how I feel about the Edition XX. So again, there will be some copypasting in some sections, and restructured sentences that come directly from the XX review, with alterations made to fit my Ananda impressions. Thanks for your understanding.*

Hot off the heels of the Massdrop Edition XX review, I saw that HiFiMAN were doing a loaner tour for the Ananda, and I figured I'd enlist to see what sort of product the Massdrop Edition XX compared to in HiFiMAN's general lineup.



*Build Quality:*

The Ananda looks a lot like the XX with the exception of the premium hybrid headband. The cup design, cables, shape are all identical to the XX otherwise.


Headband:

The new hybrid headband design is immediately the first area on the Ananda that stands out compared to the Edition XX's basic, old school leather headband. The hybrid headband is solidly built, sleek matte black metal with some silver accents. There is a suspended, slim leather strap that allows the headphone to rest on the top of the head with near-perfect weight distribution. This is easily among the best styles of headbands in both durability and comfort.

The metal yokes connecting the cups to the headband are also metal, and are reminiscent to Beyerdynamic DT770/880/990, in which they have a lot of grip, making hard to adjust the size extension, and having the unfortunate side effect of leaving marks near the 'dots' that indicate how short or how tall you have adjusted each side.






I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of the extension become easier and easier to adjust as these metal parts wear out more and more. Just don't count on it to ever travel smoothly between the dots.

There is a slight downside to the new headband design. Unlike the old headband which allowed some swivel horizontally, the hybrid headband's yokes only swivel up and down, so there may be a less perfect fit for some people.


Cups:

Since the cups are identical to the Edition XX review, I'll be pasting most of what I said there.

The cups just ooze quality. I have experienced headphones with piano finishes, glossy/wooden finishes, slotted metallic finishes, and quite a few others, but I'd say I vastly prefer the tastefully silver and black open grill design on the Ananda. It is without a doubt one of the best looking cup designs I have seen on an open headphone. You can see right through the magnetic trace array to the other side, signifying just how open the Ananda truly is. The cups are asymmetrical, and are comically large in size. They will easily swallow the side of your head.


Pads:

Since the pads are identical to the Edition XX review, I'll again be pasting most of what I said there.






I'm absolutely ecstatic at HiFiMAN's decision to continue using synthetic leather pads with a fabric top where the pads rest on the skin. The use of synthetic leather for seal also ensures that there is no sound escaping between your ears and the drivers unlike full velour or other fully fabric covered pads.

The openings for the ear are incredibly generous in size, whether width, height, or depth. It is so big, and allows the humongous driver surface area to emit sound unobstructed even well beyond your ear shape. This likely aids in providing a truly tall soundstage. This may actually be one of, if not my favorite design of pads ever on a full sized headphone. There is so much space for sound to travel around your ears, it adds a new dimension in headphone listening. There is very thin fabric covering the driver area, which shouldn't cause any discomfort if your ears bottom out on the pads."

The pads are held by some tabs, which aren't hard to feel out, making it easy to pop the pads off or snap back on if need be.


Cables:

The Ananda comes with two cables. A short cable that is similar to the one used on the XX, which terminates into a right angled 3.5mm plug with a 1/4" snap on adapter. The other is quite a bit longer and terminates into a beefy, straight 1/4" Neutrik plug (the XX does not come with this cable). The cables also look similar to the XX cable, but they are see through (you can see the inner wires), whereas the XX cable is see through but covered with an inner sleeve of some kind. Also the dual 3.5mm mono plugs that connect on the headphone side are silver on the Ananda, and black on the XX.

The cables are a drastic improvement over my HE-400's old style connector which was personally a nightmare to deal with in terms of attaching/detaching, as well as in durability. My HE-400's cable already has exposed wiring due to those questionable connectors, even though I rarely use my HE-400 to begin with. It still works, but it's quite unsightly. The Ananda connectors being a very familiar 3.5mm, makes them a breeze to connect and disconnect.


Final Build Quality Impressions:

The hybrid headband makes the Ananda look and feel considerably more premium than the classic headband used on the Massdrop Edition XX. While I've never had a problem with the old headband in general, this is a considerable step up in aesthetics, construction, and comfort. The complaints being that they only swivel vertically, and don't allow for minor horizontal movement. That and the size adjustment is every bit as rough and hard as the old headband, if not more so, leaving marks on the metal.

As for everything else, the Ananda is exceptionally built through and through. This is easily the best looking HiFiMAN headphone I've experienced to date. They look AND feel premium.



*Accessories:*

The loaner unit sent to me came what I assume to be the retail box, which looks and feels every bit as premium as the headphones themselves. Inside you'll find a booklet, warranty card, and a compartment for the two included cables, and padded walls for the headphones.



*Comfort:*

The Ananda, like the XX, is unsurprisingly in the upper echelons of comfort for a headphone of this size.

Weight:

The Ananda weighs in at 399 grams, which is just 21 less than the XX (420 g). I personally don't feel the difference between them. It may not be the lightest planar headphone out there, but there have been much, much heavier headphones.

Headband:

The Ananda's weight is almost perfectly distributed thanks to the suspension style leather strap. The leather strap has a suede underside, which allow it to rest comfortably without excessive heat buildup. While I never had any major issues with the classic headband used on older HiFiMAN headphones as well as the Edition XX, it's certainly worth mentioning that the hybrid headband used on the Ananda is even better, and a marked improvement in both looks and comfort. The only thing I'd like is if the strap had a little more give, as on my large head it's pretty much fully stretched out so there is SOME force being applied to my head. I don't see this being a problem for nearly anyone else, and it really is just a minor gripe, not a real problem.


Ear pads:

The ear pads are so large and spacious, I can't help but feel like they are absolutely sublime and among the very best in design, shape, size and depth. They aren't the most plush, and don't compress too easily. The surface contact area is quite large and depending on your head shape and size may or may not rest in uncomfortable areas on the side of your face. Personally, the pads rest in all the right spots on my head. Though due to the slight clamp, does make their presence obvious. On one hand, the huge size allows for such a large, immersive sound, but on the other, slightly smaller pads would likely feel just a little more comfortable, since these pads do touch such a large surface area around my ears.


Clamp:

Like the Edition XX, the pads press in towards my head just a bit more than I like. It's not a 'clampy' headphone by any stretch of the word, but it was enough for me to notice. This area is completely subjective, as too much is almost as bad as too little, and I'm very picky with clamp forces in general.


Final Comfort Impressions:

Despite what I've said about clamp (again, subjective opinion), If I had to give comfort a rating, I'd put it under great, as the Ananda is one of few headphones I can wear all day without feeling truly fatigued by them. I readjust here and there, but I have used them for 8+ hour sessions daily without any real complaints. That says a LOT. They're really good, great even, as stated before. This gets a recommendation for me in terms of full sized headphone comfort. Had they weighed as little as say, the HE-4, and had slightly looser clamp, they would have scored likely near the top out of all the full-sized headphones I have used.

Despite this being a repeat of what I said of the XX, the Ananda gets a half point boost in comfort due to the leather strap making weight distribution even better.



*Noise Control:*

Like the XX, and as you may have guessed just by looking at the Ananda, it is a very poor performer in isolation and leakage typical of its design. Seriously, don't expect any privacy in or out. You will want at least one room with the door closed between you and the next person if you need to keep it quiet.



*Sound:*

The Ananda shares a lot of what I've said of the XX, though there is a more neutral tonality, and the Ananda adds a little more clarity in the details, and definition. A lot of what I wrote about the XX applies here, so some may be repeated here, but I will attempt to add in the Ananda specific improvements.



*Bass:*

The bass is absolutely magnificent. The pluck of low range strings, the subterranean rumble in the deepest depths, and the thump demanded of today's electronic music is all there, and is represented masterfully. Nothing is overbearing, nothing sounds dronish, and it all honestly just sounds...correct, musical, and energetic without overindulgence, or anemia. Planarmagnetic headphones in general almost always represent bass well. The Ananda is no exception and highlights how accurate, defined and impactful bass should be.

Doing some frequency tests, it can be appreciably felt all the way down to 20hz, and is balanced all the way up to the upper bass limits. As far as frequencies go, nothing in the bass ranges sticks out. Just pure balance, and represented evenly without emphasis or outright deficiencies. Quantity is hard to define, but I think at the very least, most will agree it is either close to neutral. Not enough to be basshead level, but enough to satisfy those who like a good amount of body, and fullness. So objectively, I'd say around the neutral line, but subjectively natural, true to life.

In terms of speed, I feel the Ananda's speed in bass is faster and above the middle ground. Nimble, not slow of decay. It rumbles as long as it needs, and thumps with the agility one would expect of something perceptively correct. I've not heard much faster without thinness, and I have definitely heard much slower. Bass should have some decay, and it absolutely shouldn't linger too long. So for me, the Ananda bass speed is close to ideal.

If you're someone who enjoys bass, and have plenty of bass driven sources, you will not be disappointed with the Ananda. This, however, isn't basshead bass. To my perception, this is bass how it is supposed to sound. So give it some bass heavy tracks, and listen to the Ananda absolutely jam out. Give it bass light tracks, and the XX remains reigned in. Put on an action film with explosions, and feel every rumble. There is plenty of fun, immersion, and energy, as well as restraint and control.

There's excellent layering and texture all around. Not much more I can say without repeating what I've said in the beginning: The bass is absolutely magnificent. I don't have tools to measure distortion or the technical aspects of the bass, but subjectively, I will always hold my opinion in saying the Ananda's bass is excellent to my ears. If someone asked me what I think bass is supposed to sound like, I'd easily point them in the Ananda's direction. I don't think there's such a thing as 'much better' than the quality of bass on display here.



*Midrange to treble:*

The bass is not ever intrusive to any part of the midrange which will be beneficial in midrange clarity. The midrange is relatively well balanced and subjectively linear to my ears throughout most of the spectrum, though pushed back in forwardness. Vocals and other midrange aspects aren't as full as some of the more intimately voiced headphones. The presentation of sound isn't as forward as more neutral/balanced headphones. The Ananda will come off as slightly v-shaped.

Let me at least talk about specific frequencies. These are my notes: Ananda dips slwoly at 1100khz to 1800khz, rise to around 4khz hotspot, dip after 5khz, 7khz hotspot, 7khz starts drop off to 7.5k (lowest point) , rise to 8khz, then drop off again to around 9khz, then slight rise to 10khz, good presence to 13khz with slow roll off to 16khz.

The most laid back areas then are the area between 7khz and 9khz (not all of it, as there is energy at 8.5khz or so). In terms of hot spots, while the most prominence to me is between 4khz and 7khz, it isn't piercing or overly zingy.

To sum up the midrange to treble sections, I'd say that the Ananda in these areas is slightly laid back but quite detailed in the very top end. Low midrange is linear and warm, higher midrange to low treble is a slightly laid back, and top end treble sparkles and extends quite well.

When comparing the Ananda to the Edition XX, I feel the XX is ever so slightly warmer in tonality, with slightly more distant midrange, but it's hard to truly consider it much different. They share a definitive house sound to my ears.



*Soundstage and Imaging:*

With no processing:

The Ananda's soundstage is very much planar-like, which means that it won't be as wide as the best open dynamic headphones out there, but gain in other areas. Planars tend to lose out on soundstage width but win out in depth and overall projection of a sonic image. A medium sized soundstage in terms of width, but with a noticeable strength of soundstage height, and excellent planar depth.

The imaging properties of the Ananda are good, a little better than the Edition XX's imaging, which sounds slightly more hazy and diffused. The ability to draw an object in the virtual space is sharper on the Ananda, though I have other headphones with sharper imaging properties, like the HE-400.

That being said, I do find the Ananda to sound CONSIDERABLY 'bigger' and more room filling. Directly comparing it to my HE-400 (the HE400 equipped with Dekoni Audio DT elite velour pads and which has an excellent amount of soundstage depth and good width), I feel the Ananda has it beat in allowing the sound to envelop a bigger, taller space. The HE-400 almost sounds compressed next to the Ananda. It is an obvious difference in the presentation of sound. The Ananda sounds more lifelike and less like a headphone.

All in all, if you like complete intimacy, there are better options than the Ananda, as the Ananda does put you a little bit further away in comparison to closer presentations like the HD650 or LCD2. It's less "small lounge/front row", and more "concert hall/middle row". The soundstage is less headphone-esque, and so it won't put everything right in your face or in your head. I can't understate how impressive and how different the presentation is compared to a typical headphone.

With surround processing:

The Ananda is pretty brilliant when using surround dsps, like Dolby Atmos, SBX, Dolby Headphone, and others. It projects outward as well as the better headphones I have heard, with a truly expansive soundstage in all manner of its virtual dimensions. This makes the Anada an excellent tool for virtual surround gaming, or movie watching. In terms of sheer soundstage size, I believe a good dynamic like the AKG K702 has it beat particularly in width, though I still wouldn't dismiss the more natural quality to the Ananda's soundstage shape. Strictly as a gaming headphone with surround, there are better options, but the Ananda does it just fine. No real complaints. It manages to beat the XX I have on hand by a slight margin due to slightly more focused, sharper details.


*Clarity:*

I do believe and would defend the Ananda's detail retrieval, but the slightly laid back balancing will not appease the more detail-oriented ears out there, or those who prefer the 'up close and personal' types of headphones where the sound is more forward and intimate.

The bass has excellent speed, clarity and texture keeping it from muddying up details, the midrange is evenly balanced with just a slight tilt downwards, and the treble has a good sparkle, shimmer and is quite extended, but that drop off at 7-9khz does soften that range a bit. I think if they had kept that area more in line with the rest of the sound, the XX would have been a mostly neutral, supremely balanced headphone, which also comes with a possible problem of grating on the ears in those ranges. The clarity of its air is good, and sometimes great if the source isn't demanding a lot of low end. Not the most airy of headphones, mind you, but it can do that aspect well at times.

I'd say the clarity overall is very good throughout most of the frequencies and classify the overall sound as clear and detailed if a little laid back.



*Sound Signature:*

It isn't the final word on ultimate neutrality, as it ever so slightly treads towards being a little v-shaped. A neutral-warm v-shape, with good high end extension, keeping the Ananda from sounding muddy or veiled. So if you like warm, warm headphones, the Ananda is NOT that, nor is it cold/analytical. Neutral warmth with sparkle is how I'd put it to my ears. Slightly more neutral compared to the slightly warmer XX.



*Amplification:*

At 25ohm with sensitivity at 103db, these are certainly easy to drive planars, though I wouldn't go so far as to claim these are perfect straight out of a laptop, tablet, or cellphone. At the very least, any portable amp worth two cents and can hit high volume levels should be pretty good. My recommendation is to give it at least a decent portable amp's amount of power, as I feel they don't quite hit high volume levels even off a Sennheiser GSX1000 unless I max the volume out, which is far from ideal. For example, the volume off something like a Nintendo Switch was on the moderately lower side of my preferences. That makes it impractical for such a purpose.

In terms of what type of amp flavor makes sense for the Ananda, considering its slightly more neutral-tilted than the XX (SLIGHTLY), it isn't picky with what type of flavor of amplification you give it. If you want to enhance its details, pick a brighter amp. If you want a more musical sound, add a tube amp. Seriously, the Ananda doesn't care. It will pair up well with whatever you want to use.



*Gaming:*

The Ananda makes for a very high quality headphone for gaming. Even if you play strictly in stereo, unprocessed, focused, and hardcore, the excellent soundstage height and depth really have an added layer of immersion not found in many other headphones. The tonal balance really allows for anything from fun, casual gaming, to serious tournament play, though be aware that the area of sound between 7-9khz in particular is low in volume compared to the rest of sound. I personally think that area is more sheen than important sound effects, but it's something needing mention. For gaming with virtual surround (as I do), there's really not much better than what the Ananda has to offer. The soundstage, and positional cues are excellent, as can be expected from all the things I've mentioned before.



*Personal Recommendations*

Media:

The Ananda makes a strong case in terms of a headphone for all use cases, except maybe pure analysis of sound or if vocal intimacy is desired. Music is highly enjoyable and dynamic, gaming is an absolute pleasure, and even anime watching (which tends to always sound crisp/bright 99% of the time) is a treat. I believe they tuned the Ananda to be on the enjoyable side for most content thrown at it, and if so, they succeeded in that mission. I think perhaps some people will expect the Ananda to have flagship-y voicing in terms of detail-retrieval and microscopic analysis of sources. The Ananda is not that. A broader, more consumer-friendly sound is what I'm hearing with the Ananda.


Real world practicality:

I would keep the Ananda strictly as a home or private office headphone. It makes a poor choice in terms of portable or transportable uses due to the size, and extremely open design.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Pros:

Soundstage height and depth
Really natural and high quality bass
Non-fatiguing even with good treble extension
Comfort
Slightly better definition and clarity to the details compared to the XX


Cons:

7-9khz drop off
Size extension hard to adjust

*

Final Impressions:*

Sonically speaking, I can't find much fault here. It isn't perfect, and the mostly balanced, slightly laid back sound will not best the more specialized headphones in terms of basshead uses, detail orientation, midrange-centric duties, etc. The price of having a broad spectrum of things well usually means it won't be the best in any one thing, but it also allows the Ananda to be more appealing to a larger crowd. Those who want a headphone that does well in most areas overall. If detail retrieval and clinical analysis is the most important aspect to you, there are better options, at lesser cost. However, the total amount of strengths the Ananda has in most aspects of sound far outweigh any negative traits.

The Ananda is one of those headphones that make me feel like they're the only one I'd ever need at home. HiFiMAN has brought out a truly spectacular headphone overall.

For those that wanna really know the big difference between the Ananda and the Massdrop Edition XX, it's mainly in the sound signature being ever so slightly more neutral, midrange being a little clearer, with sharper imaging and object detail. The XX is softer sounding, more laid back, and details are a little more diffused/hazy in comparison. The Ananda is a more refined headphone, with similar house sound.


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## HiCZoK

Watched some reviews (still kinda looking around for ps4/pc wireless headphones(have porta pro for wired)).
The biggest names are Corsair HS70, hyperx flight, steelseries 7, sony gold (v2) and sony platinum (the only model with 3d audio).
I am interested in platinum since it supports both 7.1 and their proprietary 3d audio. I've also tried on hs70 in store and it seemed comfy but I did not had a chance to listen to it.
I am not looking for accurate sound. Just fun, musical sound with warm bass emphasis. Everything I try, for nay price is always inferior to Koss Porta pro though... These are some hidden killers


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## Find the Door

Currently have a Jotunheim and X7 Limited edition with Sparkos full upgrade.   Am thinking of downgrading from my HD800-S (black) to something like the Mobius? 

My fear with the HD800-S is that they'd be so expensive to replace and they're a bit uncomfortable at times.  Is there anything that I can step down to that isn't a significant downgrade or is possibly an upgrade for gaming specifically?


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## DrKrFfXx (May 6, 2019)

Find the Door said:


> Currently have a Jotunheim and X7 Limited edition with Sparkos full upgrade.   Am thinking of downgrading from my HD800-S (black) to something like the Mobius?
> 
> My fear with the HD800-S is that they'd be so expensive to replace and they're a bit uncomfortable at times.  Is there anything that I can step down to that isn't a significant downgrade or is possibly an upgrade for gaming specifically?



I would recommend the Massdrop HD58x for gaming, they are excellent for gaming, maybe not on par with the HD800S for soundstage, but for the price you could replace them infinite times over given your setup haha And in my opinion they have pinpoint accuracy imaging and very fun soundsignature for gaming.


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## Yethal

Find the Door said:


> Currently have a Jotunheim and X7 Limited edition with Sparkos full upgrade.   Am thinking of downgrading from my HD800-S (black) to something like the Mobius?
> 
> My fear with the HD800-S is that they'd be so expensive to replace and they're a bit uncomfortable at times.  Is there anything that I can step down to that isn't a significant downgrade or is possibly an upgrade for gaming specifically?


SRH1840 were pretty great gaming cans. Similar sound signature to the HD800 just linearly worse.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I was using Atmos tonight after having installed and uninstalled Equalizer Apo, and it actually did sound better than I remembered. I'll have to do more testing, but it sounded promising. Could have just been my mind playing tricks on me, and it's still not right, but maaaaaaybe my problem is fixed.


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## Fegefeuer

I'm getting robostatic sounds/artefacts from time to time during The Last of US. I don't know what causes this. Rebooting the G6 doesn't help. It's also very well powered and usually works flawlessly. Did so for the whole playthrough of Horizon Zero Dawn.

G6 optical out to Gungnir Multibit. Anyone else got this problem or know about this?


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 9, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> I'm getting robostatic sounds/artefacts from time to time during The Last of US. I don't know what causes this. Rebooting the G6 doesn't help. It's also very well powered and usually works flawlessly. Did so for the whole playthrough of Horizon Zero Dawn.
> 
> G6 optical out to Gungnir Multibit. Anyone else got this problem or know about this?



You make sure it's not the Gungnir acting up? I haven't heard an issue like that other than when I accidentally go from spdif direct to direct.

Try listening to the G6 directly, no Gung in the mix. It should whittle it down.


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## Fegefeuer

The Gungnir is fine. I'm using the G6 for the PC all the time (with the Gungnir) and I never had issues with over 50hours of Horizon on the PS4. Neither does it act up with Dark Souls 3 (Ps4) or Ratchet and Clank. (PS4).

Do you have the Last of Us to do a short testrun?


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## Mad Lust Envy

I'd have to re-download it, and the ps4 would take hours getting it downloaded. I'll do it. I'll send you a message and let you know how it fares.


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## Mad Lust Envy

43gb 

SEE YOU TOMORROW LOL


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## DrKrFfXx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If anyone is interested in a GSX1000 for a good price, check my sig link. It's been sitting mainly untouched for a year (other than for reviewing comparisons), and I hate having stuff in the house that go unused. I think it's been in my hand long enough.



What else do you use for Virtual Surround? I find myself coming back to the GSX1000 every time.


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## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 43gb
> 
> SEE YOU TOMORROW LOL



Thanks man, really appreciate it. Also I tend to forget how easy such a download is for me. o_o


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## Lay.

Yup. 43gb. PS4 is slower so 900+Mbps is not realistic but more like 50MB/s (400Mbps) and it takes about 14 minutes. Small coffee break


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## Mad Lust Envy

My ps4 gets at best 35mbps. Even though everything else gets 70mbps.


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## Mad Lust Envy

@Fegefeuer 

Within the first few minutes, I was getting little metallic artifacts every few minutes. Like a bzz for half a sec here and there.


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## Fegefeuer

This is exactly the problem I have.

So it's the game after all. What a shame as I really get gaming time only late at night in the many past weeks and thus don't want to fire up my 5.1.2 setup.
Guess I'll have to find the time now.

This game really has great sound.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 7, 2019)

It does, the surround effect is perfect.

But wait, I put in the OG Destiny and I'm getting the same artifacts.

So I don't think it's the game. Maybe a setting? Try changing it to 5.1 on PC?

Edit: I dunno man. That didn't help.

Edit 2:

So Itook the usb from my pc and directly to the ps4, after changing the speakers to 5.1 instead of 7.1. Destiny has no more sound glitches. I'll try TLOU again.

Edit 3: Nvm, it's taking the studio from the usb not the optical. No wonder. Hold on


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## Mad Lust Envy

@Fegefeuer 

So yeah... Looks like it may have something to do with the ps4's optical out because I'm getting it all the time with it. But since I normally have my ps4 sending audio to the hdmi instead and the TV optical out being what goes into the G6, I'm not getting the artifacts there, so far.

So if you're using a TV, have that being what supplies the Dolby Digital signal to your G6, not the ps4.


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## Fegefeuer

I only use it on the TV when using the speaker system. 

My AVR has 2 HDMI outs. One is for the TV, the other for my 27" Monitor. It's on the latter where I play (where also my PC is of course) when playing PS4 with headphones. Damnit. 

I had zero issues like that on other games. Have played them with the previous firmware however.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Never mind, I still got an artifact through this though I feel it's less frequent.

I haven't touched my ps4 really in months other than for movies, so I hadn't noticed this problem before.

So you think it's g6 firmware related?


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## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was using Atmos tonight after having installed and uninstalled Equalizer Apo, and it actually did sound better than I remembered. I'll have to do more testing, but it sounded promising. Could have just been my mind playing tricks on me, and it's still not right, but maaaaaaybe my problem is fixed.


Awesome let us know how your like Atmos. I am so undecided on Atmos  and investing into an AMP and DAC or getting a MixAMP TR PRo  for ps4 and PC or G6 for Pc and PS4

thanks


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## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Never mind, I still got an artifact through this though I feel it's less frequent.
> 
> I haven't touched my ps4 really in months other than for movies, so I hadn't noticed this problem before.
> 
> So you think it's g6 firmware related?



Are you using an external DAC and 100% volume? I know that's a very wild guess but I had artefacts with the X7 when volume was at max leading to clipping. They were different however, more nasty and unsettling.

Can you forward this to Creative?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My dac doesn't have a volume (Modi 3), and the G6's volume doesn't affect the spdif out to the Modi. Other than with the PS4 I've never head the issue with the G6. I'll send them an email to check starting from your first post with the problem.


----------



## Vader2k

Fegefeuer said:


> Are you using an external DAC and 100% volume? I know that's a very wild guess but I had artefacts with the X7 when volume was at max leading to clipping. They were different however, more nasty and unsettling.
> 
> Can you forward this to Creative?





Mad Lust Envy said:


> My dac doesn't have a volume (Modi 3), and the G6's volume doesn't affect the spdif out to the Modi. Other than with the PS4 I've never head the issue with the G6. I'll send them an email to check starting from your first post with the problem.



Not sure how much my input will help in this, but I go PS4 -> AVR (via HDMI) -> G6 (via Optical) and occasionally I will hear the robotic/digital static.  Firmware updates have seemed to reduce it, but it still pops up from time to time.  I notice it on RDR2 on occasion, and it will even occasionally happen when watching Netflix.  But I don't think the frequency of it is as high as you guys are talking about, so not sure if it's the same thing or not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

@Fegefeuer can you test directly with the headphone connected to the G6 directly? Just to weed out whether it's a problem you're having with the ps4 sending optical to the g6, or whether it's a problem with the G6 sending the ps4's signal to the optical out to another device. I don't have time to test atm.


----------



## mindbomb

because the surround sound to binaural conversion will raise volume, as Fegefeuer was saying, you want to maybe keep the volume on the ps4 lower to prevent the peak volume from exceeding the maximum limit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 7, 2019)

How would I be able to lower the volume though? You can't lower the PS4 output, nor the G6's optical out. Perhaps the PS4 is exceeding the input threshold of the G6, but there's no way to address that. Unless we're talking lowering the in game volume... which by the sounds of it, is exactly what you mean, and I'm overthinking it like an idiot. I'll give that a try when I get the chance. I tend to forget games have their own in game volumes. Thing being that it happens even during quiet parts.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I set the SPDIF IN Volume to 80% and played about 2 hours via the GumBy and no artefacts at all. None.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So sounds like it was the signal voltage exceeding input threshold. I didn't get to test that with ingame volume.


----------



## HiCZoK

Am I getting this right.
PS4 SLIM(no optical) supports 7.1 output only with sony gold and platinum headsets right? All other usb based headsets only receive 2.0 signal and upscalse it to fake 7.1 vss.
Only Sony gold and platinum receie 7.1 and do their own 3d or vss dsp ?
The only way to get real 7.1 virtual surround (not upscaled from stereo source) is to use optical out.

I am basing all this information on this arcticle:
https://medium.com/the-cube/sonys-ps4-headphone-surround-sound-tax-5504cbda9bdf

It means that I only have 2 options for my ps4 slim. Either new sony GOLD(without hinges) or Platinum. Anyone have opinions on those?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Does your TV have an optical out? You could send Dolby Digital over HDMI to your TV and from there "forward" it to whatever device fits your needs, BlasterX G6, Mixamp, Philips SU1502 etc..


----------



## headphonesonly

You’re correct about the Sony headsets. Those are the only ones that receive a 7.1 signal via usb on the ps4. Optical can only send a true 5.1 signal not 7.1. Either do what Fegefeuer said or get an hdmi to toslink converter.


----------



## Vader2k

Fegefeuer said:


> Does your TV have an optical out? You could send Dolby Digital over HDMI to your TV and from there "forward" it to whatever device fits your needs, BlasterX G6, Mixamp, Philips SU1502 etc..



Be sure to check if the TV's optical out is 5.1 or not.  Some TV's only output stereo 2.0.


----------



## Yethal

HiCZoK said:


> Am I getting this right.
> PS4 SLIM(no optical) supports 7.1 output only with sony gold and platinum headsets right? All other usb based headsets only receive 2.0 signal and upscalse it to fake 7.1 vss.
> Only Sony gold and platinum receie 7.1 and do their own 3d or vss dsp ?
> The only way to get real 7.1 virtual surround (not upscaled from stereo source) is to use optical out.
> ...


You can also use Tritton Katana (that uses hdmi input) or use an hdmi extractor to extract dolby digital signal from hdmi and send it to optical


----------



## Fegefeuer (May 10, 2019)

Audeze reveals a new headset, it's purely analog 

https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd-gx


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Just when I started to get along well with my newly bought GSP500.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> Audeze reveals a new headset, it's purely analog
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd-gx


Can't wait to see youtubers and streamers advertising it on their channels.


----------



## Zorgon

G6 vs GSX1000 for movie watching on PC? I know the G6 has Dolby Digital decoding, but I can only get it to work with Netflix and the Movies & TV apps. Using a PC37x but may get a 58x/6xx down the road.


----------



## mindbomb (May 11, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Audeze reveals a new headset, it's purely analog
> 
> https://www.audeze.com/products/lcd-collection/lcd-gx



I have thoughts on this. First of all, this headset is going to be a ground loop nightmare for people. If you plug the headphones into your dac/amp, and the microphone into your motherboard, you are going to need a dac with galvanic isolation or you have to use optical.

"the LCD-GX is strictly analog – no digital processing – just for the real purist who wants the best possible sound"

I hate when people bring up purity. Games take place in a 3d environment and internally have object based audio. Playing them the "pure" way means converting that to stereo and losing a bunch of spatial information in the process. Digital processing, in the form of an hrtf setting, or virtual surround sound for headphones, allows you to replace that conversion with something better.


----------



## illram

If you make headphones it is silly to not take advantage of the "g4m3r" market, but jesus christ $900? I wonder if they will eventually just sell us an Audeze mic cable, although they'd probably still charge like $199 for it or something silly.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

illram said:


> If you make headphones it is silly to not take advantage of the "g4m3r" market, but jesus christ $900? I wonder if they will eventually just sell us an Audeze mic cable, although they'd probably still charge like $199 for it or something silly.



If these are some LCD2 with added mic, I certainly can see the value proposition.


----------



## Find the Door

Quick question (possibly dumb) I use the Soundblaster x7 and have RCA cables running to a Schiit Jotunheim to give a little more juice to my HD800-S.  As far as I'm aware the RCA cannot carry more than two channels.

So am I only able to use this configuration in stereo mode if I want all the information?  And do I need to plug my headphones directly into the X7 to get multichannel support? Or does the x7 downfold all of that information into a stereo mix anyways and I'm not losing any info


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Find the Door said:


> Quick question (possibly dumb) I use the Soundblaster x7 and have RCA cables running to a Schiit Jotunheim to give a little more juice to my HD800-S.  As far as I'm aware the RCA cannot carry more than two channels.
> 
> So am I only able to use this configuration in stereo mode if I want all the information?  And do I need to plug my headphones directly into the X7 to get multichannel support? Or does the x7 downfold all of that information into a stereo mix anyways and I'm not losing any info



If the X7 is anything like the G6, which it most likely is, the audio that goes to the amp comes already preprocessed, meaning that the stereo downmix have all 7 channels information within the channela output.


----------



## illram

Find the Door said:


> Quick question (possibly dumb) I use the Soundblaster x7 and have RCA cables running to a Schiit Jotunheim to give a little more juice to my HD800-S.  As far as I'm aware the RCA cannot carry more than two channels.
> 
> So am I only able to use this configuration in stereo mode if I want all the information?  And do I need to plug my headphones directly into the X7 to get multichannel support? Or does the x7 downfold all of that information into a stereo mix anyways and I'm not losing any info



The X7 outputs processed stereo so you can output your virtual surround to any amp via RCA.


----------



## illram

DrKrFfXx said:


> If these are some LCD2 with added mic, I certainly can see the value proposition.



Yeah but which ones? I doubt it is the LCD-2 which is $995. If I had to guess it is the classic, which is $799 (and sometimes goes on sale for $599). I guess for the convenience of a single cable rather than a modmic solution it might be worth it, assuming you were willing to pay full boat for the classics anyway.


----------



## Evshrug

Yethal said:


> Now that we have you in here, will Dekoni make Mobius earpads?



Not sure, they have what I would call a “cartridge” rather than a mount to connect earcup to earpad. A chunk of orange or blue plastic comes off with the pad, sooo Dekoni would have to either come up with matching paint jobs or one color that compliments both Mobeus variants.

It’s possible, just difficult.



Find the Door said:


> Quick question (possibly dumb) I use the Soundblaster x7 and have RCA cables running to a Schiit Jotunheim to give a little more juice to my HD800-S.  As far as I'm aware the RCA cannot carry more than two channels.


You’re not dumb!
To put it simply, DSPs like the Sound Blaster X7 use Surround information to make a stereo output with the headphone-specific surround effect (which is called Binaural processing).
You have to go into the X7 app and check the settings for “Surround output,” but if you do that, then the headphone jacks, RCA out jacks, and optical out jacks will all have the Binaural processing effect “baked in.” Did you say earlier that you performed the Sparkos opamp upgrade on the X7? Well, opamp upgrades benefit the RCA outputs too, though I don’t think the Jotunheim is the best match for an HD 800 S anyway...


----------



## Find the Door

Evshrug said:


> Not sure, they have what I would call a “cartridge” rather than a mount to connect earcup to earpad. A chunk of orange or blue plastic comes off with the pad, sooo Dekoni would have to either come up with matching paint jobs or one color that compliments both Mobeus variants.
> 
> It’s possible, just difficult.
> 
> ...



What option do I check for that in the app? 

What Amp would you recommend?


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Yeah but which ones? I doubt it is the LCD-2 which is $995. If I had to guess it is the classic, which is $799 (and sometimes goes on sale for $599). I guess for the convenience of a single cable rather than a modmic solution it might be worth it, assuming you were willing to pay full boat for the classics anyway.


IF Audeze were to sell the cable separately we could use it to add mic capabilities to other headphones that use dual minixlr  connector (Higher Beyerdynamic models, Kennertons, Empyrean) or even use mini xlr adapters to connect it to literally everything. We've had microphones that were used as replacement headphone cables before but we've never had one that was dual entry.


----------



## Xspearo

Sorry if this has been asked but is the AKG k702 the same as Massdrop AKG k7XX for competitive gaming?


----------



## headphonesonly

Xspearo said:


> Sorry if this has been asked but is the AKG k702 the same as Massdrop AKG k7XX for competitive gaming?


K7xx is the same as the K702 Anniversary which MLE has reviewed.


----------



## headphonesonly

Do you guys think the g6 should have a feature that allows you to switch between a fixed or variable output for the line out port?


----------



## Xspearo

headphonesonly said:


> K7xx is the same as the K702 Anniversary which MLE has reviewed.



Thank you for your reply, so for competitive gaming the original K702 will be best choice?


----------



## Vader2k

headphonesonly said:


> Do you guys think the g6 should have a feature that allows you to switch between a fixed or variable output for the line out port?



Yes.  Did you post to that to r/SoundBlasterOfficial as a feature request?  It's a good idea, hopefully u/Creative_Ryan will respond.


----------



## headphonesonly

Vader2k said:


> Yes.  Did you post to that to r/SoundBlasterOfficial as a feature request?  It's a good idea, hopefully u/Creative_Ryan will respond.


Yep

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...t_for_g6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app


----------



## headphonesonly

G


Xspearo said:


> Thank you for your reply, so for competitive gaming the original K702 will be best choice?


Go for whatever is the most affordable. They all sound similar anyways.


----------



## Vader2k

headphonesonly said:


> Yep
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...t_for_g6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app



Oh whoops, what I meant was were you the one who posted at r/SoundBlasterOfficial.  I had just read the post there before commenting here.


----------



## illram

Yethal said:


> IF Audeze were to sell the cable separately we could use it to add mic capabilities to other headphones that use dual minixlr  connector (Higher Beyerdynamic models, Kennertons, Empyrean) or even use mini xlr adapters to connect it to literally everything. We've had microphones that were used as replacement headphone cables before but we've never had one that was dual entry.



I'd buy them for my LCD2C if they were <$100. But I feel like in this market they could sell those easily for $200.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 16, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> I have thoughts on this. First of all, this headset is going to be a ground loop nightmare for people. If you plug the headphones into your dac/amp, and the microphone into your motherboard, you are going to need a dac with galvanic isolation or you have to use optical.
> 
> "the LCD-GX is strictly analog – no digital processing – just for the real purist who wants the best possible sound"
> 
> I hate when people bring up purity. Games take place in a 3d environment and internally have object based audio. Playing them the "pure" way means converting that to stereo and losing a bunch of spatial information in the process. Digital processing, in the form of an hrtf setting, or virtual surround sound for headphones, allows you to replace that conversion with something better.



The GX will come with an audio/mic splitter, so you can use your amps without problem. The GX Audeze sent me for review didn't have one, but thankfully I had one laying around. I haven't been extensively testing the mic cable though, just the standard.



Also the GX is its own thing. They are not repurposed LCD2s or anything. They see their own design. No fazor, comes with single sided magnet, extreme efficiency. Lightweight for an LCD at 420g. The headband is perfection though and makes the weight feel inconsequential.

It sounds like an LCD, however. But with plenty of upper range, unlike the LCD2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

You can fix the upper midrange dip of the LCD-2C with Velour pads. Also resolves a couple of more issues.

Looking forward to your GX review. I'm mostly curious what kind of soundstage performance (width, depth, imaging) the GX's brings to the table. I trust the tonality, decay because of the MX4 heritage and the lessons they learned from the Mobius.


----------



## Michelest

hi everyone, what do you think of this modhouse argon mk3 headset for games? 
I didn't see this headset in the  *"*Headphone Gaming Guide"

https://www.modhouseaudio.com/argon-mk3/zimu3wz0oyxlavnprki2jovso6c31v


----------



## Michelest

Hopefully some of you audio experts can help me out here. I am looking for the best gaming headphones possible for under €200/€250. I am not looking for headphones that will allow me to hear the footsteps of people in FPS games. I want something that will create the most immersive experience possible when playing horror / fantasy games, such as resident evil. In addition, I would like something that emphasizes music quality when playing games with high quality soundtracks. To my knowledge there are 5 "rivals" in this price range, which are the ATH-AD1000x's, the Fidelio X2's, the Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro-250's ,the K712 Pro, the Hifiman 400i . Are those the 5 that I should choose from? If so, can you guys help me choose one based on my preferences? The headphones will be hooked up to an Topping DX3 pro.


----------



## LB Felipe

mindbomb said:


> I have thoughts on this. First of all, this headset is going to be a ground loop nightmare for people. If you plug the headphones into your dac/amp, and the microphone into your motherboard, you are going to need a dac with galvanic isolation or you have to use optical.
> 
> "the LCD-GX is strictly analog – no digital processing – just for the real purist who wants the best possible sound"
> 
> I hate when people bring up purity. Games take place in a 3d environment and internally have object based audio. Playing them the "pure" way means converting that to stereo and losing a bunch of spatial information in the process. Digital processing, in the form of an hrtf setting, or virtual surround sound for headphones, allows you to replace that conversion with something better.



So would Creative Sound BlasterX G6 be the perfect match for Audeze LCD-GX (because the kinda galvanic isolation of USB and mic input)?


----------



## illram

Finally got to try out Overwatch with Atmos today. It actually sounds pretty great and it is disappointing more games do not use this. Height in particular is actually noticeable, in addition to fairly accurate rear cues. 

I only played around with it for about 20 minutes but it was enough to immediately hear it. Thumbs up. (To the one game that uses it....  )


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hahaha. Yeah, I mean, why is it so hard for companies to utilize spatial audio like that? 

Then there is something like Hellblade, which has binaural tracks, but it's canned -pre-recorded effects, and not actual gameplay that is binaural. So the game itself is stereo, but the voices in her heasd are binaural. I waa hoping the whole game was binaural. So if you turn on virtual surround dsp, the game is corrected, but the voices in her head won't sound proper.

What a conundrum.

I guess for that game I'd play in stereo if only because of the novelty of haing binaural effects in a game. It ain't the first game to have it, however.


----------



## mindbomb

LB Felipe said:


> So would Creative Sound BlasterX G6 be the perfect match for Audeze LCD-GX (because the kinda galvanic isolation of USB and mic input)?



cause of the mic input, i think yea.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 20, 2019)

There aren't issues with the LCD-GX and the G6.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Ananda, Edition XX vs. the Audeze GX? My bets are on the GX. However I really couldn't test them in their "designated" environment at all. Just waiting for Mad King LE's review then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You'd be surprised... it's not that simple. 

I'll hold off as I plan on posting the review when the GX launches.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'd be surprised... it's not that simple.
> 
> I'll hold off as I plan on posting the review when the GX launches.


Embargo? Or just because.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 21, 2019)

Just because. Embargo was for when I had it for a few weeks before the official reveal.

 GX doesn't release yet, and I feel talking about my impressions ahead of my review kinda undermines the review, you know?

Besides posting a review weeks ahead of release will make people less interested in either by the time the product releases. Posting the review  at around the same time as Audeze releases the GX will give people something to look forward to and maybe give them enough info to educate on whether or not something is right for them.

I'll simply say I prefer the Ananda for some obvious things, and the GX for others. You simply can't have it all, and I feel both headphones lean in different directions as opposed to the same direction, so there's bound to be some stark differences and preferences.

As far the XX goes, just consider it a slightly lower tier Ananda. Hence why I prefer to compare the GX to Ananda instead as I feel it's more fitting. Nothing negative about the XX, just the Ananda is a more perfected version of that sound (more neutral and detailed). The XX is stellar for the price, and I'd personally would get the XX over the Ananda to save some money.


----------



## Fegefeuer

When speaking to Wired, Cerny conceded that there was a "frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4".

"*With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it.*”


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> When speaking to Wired, Cerny conceded that there was a "frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4".
> 
> "*With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it.*”


He's right though. It's 2019 and we use literally the same technology we used last gen for positional audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds promising. I'd love to finally be about to ditch hardware that embeds virtual surround, and just have raw audiophile hardware connected to the system, with the system providing the virtual surround. XB1 has done it for so long now. Sony is slacking.


----------



## Dtshaw

I am curious to if you have tested the G6 + AKG 712 Pros together and what they are like?. I have seen reported that say the G6 can't power them properly while others suggesting the G6 is more than fine. I was also looking as the X2HRs. Which would you persoanlly pick between the two + a good dac/amp setup?.

They both would have a mic mod attached anyway.. 

X2HRs (£260)
AK12 Pros (£200)
G6 (£110)


----------



## illram

Dtshaw said:


> I am curious to if you have tested the G6 + AKG 712 Pros together and what they are like?. I have seen reported that say the G6 can't power them properly while others suggesting the G6 is more than fine. I was also looking as the X2HRs. Which would you persoanlly pick between the two + a good dac/amp setup?.
> 
> They both would have a mic mod attached anyway..
> 
> ...



G6 can get my 7XX to ear-bleeding volumes so I doubt you will have any issues.


----------



## wega03

@Mad Lust Envy I have the 7xx and I feel a lack of definition on the high end, xx or gx are better than 7xx on this aspect?? And which one have better bass with out being to overwhelming??


----------



## Michelest

Michelest said:


> hi everyone, what do you think of this modhouse argon mk3 headset for games?
> I didn't see this headset in the  *"*Headphone Gaming Guide"
> 
> https://www.modhouseaudio.com/argon-mk3/zimu3wz0oyxlavnprki2jovso6c31v




up .. 

no one considers me


----------



## AxelCloris

Michelest said:


> up ..
> 
> no one considers me


It's likely that none here have experience with that particular model.


----------



## HairyHook

Michelest said:


> up ..
> 
> no one considers me


I do have them, but I haven't had the chance to game on them. Soundstage is pretty wide, nobody would have guessed they are semi closed. Bass is pretty visceral too. I'd say they are pretty fun in general, and COMFORTABLE. The deerskin band is a must when ordering.


----------



## headphonesonly

Michelest said:


> up ..
> 
> no one considers me


I ordered Argons in April. I don’t expect them to ship till late june or early July.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 1, 2019)

I only reply based on stuff I have actual experience with. If I don't, it is because I haven't heard/tested the headphone in question. Believe it or not, I don't make money off this, and the only times I get to listen to something new is out of my pocket or when a company sends me something for review which is rare. I make barely above minimum wage irl, don't have my own place anymore, so you can understand why I can't just try every headphone out there. Life ain't been that kind to me.

On a positive note, be on the lookout for the Creative Air review which is coming up hopefully within the week. Hopefully depending on how I feel after the surgery Tuesday, then I'm off work for two weeks, giving me time to finish up the review and whatnot.


----------



## Michelest

thank you all for the answers


----------



## Michelest

headphonesonly said:


> I ordered Argons in April. I don’t expect them to ship till late june or early July.



hi i'm trying to make the order. The problem is that he responds to emails once a week. I hope I can complete the order as soon as possible


----------



## Fegefeuer

*Sennheiser GSP 670 Headset* releasing soon with built in GSX Engine and Blue Tooth


low latency wireless 16 hours
standard wireless 20 hours
7 min charging time means 2h gaming


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> *Sennheiser GSP 670 Headset* releasing soon with built in GSX Engine and Blue Tooth
> 
> 
> low latency wireless 16 hours
> ...



What? DAC built in then?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Shame its stereo only on PS4


----------



## illram

Fegefeuer said:


> *Sennheiser GSP 670 Headset* releasing soon with built in GSX Engine and Blue Tooth
> 
> 
> low latency wireless 16 hours
> ...



Interesting. They say PS4 compatible but wouldn't that just be bluetooth stereo? (Since GSX does not do DD+ decoding.)

edit: x-post with WhiteHartMart


----------



## AppleheadMay

WhiteHartMart said:


> Shame its stereo only on PS4



And on Xbox?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

AppleheadMay said:


> And on Xbox?


Doubt it works at all as it uses a USB Bluetooth device.


----------



## Fegefeuer

There won't be any solution for PS4 surround sound over USB in this lifetime.

PS5 should be much more supportive but most likely will use the Sony inhouse solution as the default model.


----------



## AxelCloris

Confirmation for some of the posts above, from Sennheiser's page:


> What gaming platforms is the GSP 670 compatible with?
> 
> The GSP 670 is compatible with PlayStation® 4 and PC, using the GSA 70 Dongle for a lag free gaming experience. It can also be connected to other Bluetooth® supporting devices, like phones.
> Does the GSP 670 come with surround sound?
> ...


I've pinged @Evshrug and @Sennheiser for some more details, if they happen to have any available. This has my interest now.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I asked Sennheiser earlier and they confirmed 2 channel only on PS4 and also confirmed there were two volume controls so voice and game volume could be adjusted independently. Be interested if that is the case for sure on PS4.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

I wouldn't be eager to commit to anything with the PS5 around the corner. That could change the headset game, at least in the surround bussiness department.


----------



## Aalvi (Jun 5, 2019)

Any suggestions where to go from here?

Currently have AD700x + Astro Mixamp 2013. I really like the ability to game and hear my pc at the same time, I have a Blue Yeti mic separate as a mic solution on PS4(I had a bad experience with modmic).

I game on PS4 and have the mixamp plugged to a desktop with the optical going into the mixamp from the PS4. I originally did this setup for competitive fps games like R6. Nowadays I have gone a bit more casual and more into cinematic/story-driven games and more into critical listening of music on my desktop.

I want to upgrade because I feel like mainly I'd want something not bass light(which was great for fps, but a negative for music), something great across the board. They have to be open-back and I'm hoping whatever I end up with is able to be driven by my current mixamp. Something of a significant bump is what I'm looking for without having to break the bank, right now I'm looking at ~$300 CAD as a budget. I don't know enough about DACs and mixamps and ultimately don't know whether an upgrade is recommended in order to drive higher end stuff, I'd be open to it and might be willing to raise the budget by saving more.

A thread like this was a nice read but because the many options and not exactly understanding what matters, I'm ultimately lost and indecisive to just pick something on my own. Would appreciate some help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 5, 2019)

Something like the Fidelio X2? I dunno if that's still around. Oh it is. I'd look into that.


----------



## Aalvi

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Something like the Fidelio X2? I dunno if that's still around. Oh it is. I'd look into that.



I have been looking into (obsessing) over this for this past week. I sort of narrowed onto the DT 990s(250 ohm). How are those compared to your suggestion of the Fidelio X2 for the music/gaming use I'm interested in? Both of these should work with the Astro mixamp I have too I imagine?


----------



## headphonesonly

Aalvi said:


> I have been looking into (obsessing) over this for this past week. I sort of narrowed onto the DT 990s(250 ohm). How are those compared to your suggestion of the Fidelio X2 for the music/gaming use I'm interested in? Both of these should work with the Astro mixamp I have too I imagine?


I can’t listen to the dt990 for more than 5 mins or else I’ll get tinnitus. The treble is just so god damn sharp it physically hurts me. It’s unfortunate because the mids and bass is much cleaner than the X2. And the mixamp can’t drive dt990s.


----------



## headphonesonly

Fegefeuer said:


> *Sennheiser GSP 670 Headset* releasing soon with built in GSX Engine and Blue Tooth
> 
> 
> low latency wireless 16 hours
> ...


I really hate their complex “gamer” headset design.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Aalvi said:


> I have been looking into (obsessing) over this for this past week. I sort of narrowed onto the DT-990s (250 ohm). How are those compared to your suggestion of the Fidelio X2 for the music/gaming use I'm interested in? Both of these should work with the Astro mix-amp I have too I imagine?


The Astro Mix-amp is just powerful enough to drive 250-Ohm Beyer (DT770/DT880/DT990) headphones somewhat decently.
I would try and talk you into getting the Soundmagic HP200 headphones, over the DT990.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Aalvi said:


> Any suggestions where to go from here?
> Currently have AD700x + Astro Mix-amp 2013. I really like the ability to game and hear my pc at the same time, I have a Blue Yeti mic separate as a mic solution on PS4(I had a bad experience with Modmic).
> I game on PS4 and have the mix-amp plugged to a desktop with the optical going into the mix-amp from the PS4. I originally did this setup for competitive fps games like R6. Nowadays I have gone a bit more casual and more into cinematic/story-driven games and more into critical listening of music on my desktop.
> I want to upgrade because I feel like mainly I'd want something not bass light(which was great for fps, but a negative for music), something great across the board. They have to be open-back and I'm hoping whatever I end up with is able to be driven by my current mix-amp. Something of a significant bump is what I'm looking for without having to break the bank, right now I'm looking at ~$300 CAD as a budget. I don't know enough about DACs and mix-amps and ultimately don't know whether an upgrade is recommended in order to drive higher end stuff, I'd be open to it and might be willing to raise the budget by saving more.
> A thread like this was a nice read but because the many options and not exactly understanding what matters, I'm ultimately lost and indecisive to just pick something on my own. Would appreciate some help.


Soundmagic HP200 open headphones.
Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X  open headphones.


----------



## DrKrFfXx

headphonesonly said:


> I really hate their complex “gamer” headset design.



But their imaging is eerily good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 5, 2019)

Aalvi said:


> I have been looking into (obsessing) over this for this past week. I sort of narrowed onto the DT 990s(250 ohm). How are those compared to your suggestion of the Fidelio X2 for the music/gaming use I'm interested in? Both of these should work with the Astro mixamp I have too I imagine?



As long as you understand that the DT990 has some pretty prolific treble, it's a greatheadphone otherwise. Personally I think the X2 is a better headphone and is easier on the Mixamp as well.

I see Philips has updated the X2 with removable pads and whatnot. Definitely a great headphone. Highly recommend it to anyone.

As always, I don't comment on headphones I've never heard, so I can't say anything about other's recommendations, but I'd listen to them as well. My tastes may not be the same as yours.


----------



## Aalvi

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As long as you understand that the DT990 has some pretty prolific treble, it's a greatheadphone otherwise. Personally I think the X2 is a better headphone and is easier on the Mixamp as well.
> 
> I see Philips has updated the X2 with removable pads and whatnot. Definitely a great headphone. Highly recommend it to anyone.
> 
> As always, I don't comment on headphones I've never heard, so I can't say anything about other's recommendations, but I'd listen to them as well. My tastes may not be the same as yours.



Is X2 worth it compared to DT 990 if I have to shell out $120+ more? Also I'm confused as to the Astro mixamps ability to drive 250 ohm DT 990, I'm hearing it can and also that it can't based on many sources. I also heard the mixamp would drive better if it's not used for a mic as well(in my case it isn't). If I do go with it(which seems to be the most convincing choice based on price and everything I've looked at altogether), what would be a recommend map/dac to pair with my mixamp to maximize my headphones?

I've looked extensively at DT series (990, 880, 770), AKG K702, AD900x and some others. This is harder than I thought, I'm basically just getting into this sort of thing so the sheer volume of options and concepts to take in is admittedly overwhelming.

Also it's hard to say if I'd have a problem with DT 990 treble, I might just end up appreciating it and adapting.


----------



## Michelest

you have selected excellent headphones: X2, AKG702, AD700 / 900X, DT990.
No one can tell you which of these 4 headphones is best for you.
You have to try them ... Amazon.ca/.com gives you the chance to try on headphones for  a month. 
Just keep in mind that the DT990s are difficult to drive and are as special as sound. The AKG 712 Pro are great headphones but if you don't live in the UE they will cost you a lot.
Choose between the AD900 / 700X and X2


----------



## Aalvi

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As long as you understand that the DT990 has some pretty prolific treble, it's a greatheadphone otherwise. Personally I think the X2 is a better headphone and is easier on the Mixamp as well.
> 
> I see Philips has updated the X2 with removable pads and whatnot. Definitely a great headphone. Highly recommend it to anyone.
> 
> As always, I don't comment on headphones I've never heard, so I can't say anything about other's recommendations, but I'd listen to them as well. My tastes may not be the same as yours.



After combing through basically all your reviews as well as others, asking around, reading articles and reviews, I went with your suggestion(I found ones at a more appropriate price). I wasn't too sure I'd be able to like DT 990s and I've been returning stuff at amazon and didn't want to push it. Thanks for your help(as well as everyone else who suggested things), I really hope I do enjoy the X2's.

I'm considering getting the SoundblasterX G6 to replace or pair with my Astro mixamp. I am interested in the idea of "immersive" gaming through surround sound and wanted to see if the SBX would be better than whatever the mixamp has.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Aalvi said:


> After combing through basically all your reviews as well as others, asking around, reading articles and reviews, I went with your suggestion(I found ones at a more appropriate price). I wasn't too sure I'd be able to like DT 990s and I've been returning stuff at amazon and didn't want to push it. Thanks for your help(as well as everyone else who suggested things), I really hope I do enjoy the X2's.
> 
> I'm considering getting the SoundblasterX G6 to replace or pair with my Astro mixamp. I am interested in the idea of "immersive" gaming through surround sound and wanted to see if the SBX would be better than whatever the mixamp has.



The G6 is a much cleaner sounding dac amp, so sound quality will be improved. It's also quite a bit more powerful. X2 will be driven fine by the G6. As for the virtual surround, the G6 implementation is less processed sounding, though Dolby Headphone has a better sense of immersion and surround 'feel', IMHO.

Both are very good, so if you're fine with the Mixamp, you should be fine with the G6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 9, 2019)

*edit: I'm an idiot. I've had the Creative Air for a month, and just TODAY noticed there is a Creative Air app on Android.  I've been using only the SXFI app. Apparently you need TWO apps to get all the functions working... along with a PC app as well when using the USB mode. Lol. 3 apps...*



Anyways, old post below, still relevant to all of you.

Can someone download the SFXI app to their mobile device and tell me if you are able to calibrate your head mapping as well as use Super X-fi through that music player?

I ask because if so, it at least let's you try out SXFI at the very least with whatever music files you have in your mobile device. So long as you create an account and are logged in.

I was confused as to why you need the SXFI amp or SXFI headphones if the app already allows you to use the dsp, but then again, you're limited to just that specific music player, and if you don't have a headphone in their list, you won't get an 'ideal' preset either, but at the very least you can test out how SXFI alters the sound to mimic a really spacious theater. It's worth trying.

Spoiler: it works INCREDIBLY well on the Creative Air particularly when gaming on PC.


----------



## Trancefreak

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was confused as to why you need the SXFI amp or SXFI headphones if the app already allows you to use the dsp, but then again, you're limited to just that specific music player, and if you don't have a headphone in their list, you won't get an 'ideal' preset either, but at the very least you can test out how SXFI alters the sound to mimic a really spacious theater. It's worth trying.
> 
> Spoiler: it works INCREDIBLY well on the Creative Air particularly when gaming on PC.



I'd be interested in a comparison between Audeze Mobius WaveNX, Sennheiser GSX1000 and Creative's new SXFI solution. Is this possible?

Eagerly awaiting your Audeze GX for this reason also ^^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 10, 2019)

I'll make a broad comparison in that I'll talk about what makes the SXFI stand iut from the normal virtual surround dsps, but I won't go to in depth as there isn't all that much that separates virtual surround dsps from one another. They all more or less sound like you're transported into a room with a full surround speaker setup.

How effective they are varies, but I will say that SXFI sounds slightly different from those. I'll get around to talk about it in the review.

The review would've been done by now, but the software section of the review went to hell after I introduced the third app, so I went and redid the entire thing yesterday. It wasn't a good day for me. The software section made up about 75% of the review before. It was massive and felt like it took away from what I'm supposed to be doing: reviewing the headset, not the attached programs. Now it's only a small section of the review. Looks better.

Today I'll hopefully be finishing up the sound sections and doing final editing. I think at latest, the Air SXFI review will be coming no later than Wednesday, depending on how I progress today and tomorrow.


----------



## motorwayne

Hey there,

Gamer: (Mostly ARMA) I have some AKG 712's..I'm getting bored. I run them through a Sennheiser 1000, it sound good, still bored though.

What to do? Beyerdynamic MMX300 Gen. 2 for a change, wait for just announced Sennheiser wireless thingy?

I need help, save me.

Cheers


----------



## Deders

Trancefreak said:


> I'd be interested in a comparison between Audeze Mobius WaveNX, Sennheiser GSX1000 and Creative's new SXFI solution. Is this possible?
> 
> Eagerly awaiting your Audeze GX for this reason also ^^



I don't think the GX has surround built in, but you could run Dolby atmos etc through them.


----------



## Trancefreak

mm, yes you're right.
But If I changed away from the mobius, it would be including a headphone upgrade. 
I was dead set on a LCD-2F, but with the announcement of the GX I'm no longer sure...
Mixed usage Gaming/Music ofc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The wait shouldn't be too long for the Creative Air and SXFI review.

Let's just say that may very well be my biggest review. It's freaking huge.  

Still working out some writing kinks. PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE, MY GOOD PEOPLE. It's coming.


----------



## motorwayne

Argh..sheesh, might have to go buy them and the Blaster AX-9 too!


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'd be surprised... it's not that simple.
> 
> I'll hold off as I plan on posting the review when the GX launches.



Hmmm, just can't get my head around non-fabric cups.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trust me, I get it. I'm generally the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 16, 2019)

In case anyone is wondering why I'm taking so long with the Creative Air review:

1. The headphone has 3 programs to use. I initally wrote LONG pretty much reviews on EACH within this review. I found it makes the review way too cluttered and deleted it all and simplified those sections, as the focus here is the headphone, not the softwares/apps.
2. Testing with two sets of pads (and I haven't even started on impressions with the leather pads yet!)
3. Testing both stereo as well as SXFI sound differences
4. Testing the headphone through the main USC PC method, then Bluetooth, SD Card (surprisingly my fave in terms of music testing), THEN passively with the Aux input (which works with the headphone turned off meaning you can use your own gear), and accounting for whatever noticeable differences there are here.
5.  Personal  reasons, such as I'm in a recovery phase from a surgery done last week, so my mind hasn't been 100% focused on writing. Along with taking two weeks staycation from work to recover, which has allowed me to really get into E3 week, and other fun things. Who wants to 'work' during vacation? Writing may not earn me anything (anyone wanna change this? Lol), and I do it mainly for you guys, but it is quite stressful at times.

So yes, these are my excuses, take it or leave it. 

The Creative Air review is probably gonna be the biggest due to all it offers. The Mobius review was similar, but only had one program to deal with, only one set of pads at the time, and I didn't care to test the Aux input as it still needed to go through the internal processing which is not ideal.

The Air is probably the most versatile headphone I have ever used. For the price it's going for, I think it really deserves attention.

I didn't expect my review to be like this, because I only looked at the headphone due to the pads and the SXFI. It turned out to have many more reasons to check out.

*edit: Outside of some bluetooth, sd card, microphone, and synthetic ear pad sections, as well as pictures, I'm almost complete. After that comes pictures, formatting, editing, and finally posting.  *


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 17, 2019)

Today I'll be doing microphone checks and testing, taking pictures, and probably formatting for head-fi posting. This means It should HOPEFULLY be posted here tomorrow, if I have the time. I'm essentially done with the writing (except the microphone impressions).

I'm gonna need a writing break after that one.

Thankfully, Bloodstained releases tomorrow, so I'm gonna have a great time gaming for the next few days, though I'm back to work Wednesday (noooooooo)



BUY THIS GAME EVERYONE.


----------



## stavros.m

@MadLustEnvy hey i am just curious what is your go to setup which you personally use when your not reviewing and testing

thanks


----------



## kevikev

WhiteHartMart said:


> Doubt it works at all as it uses a USB Bluetooth device.


I doubt Bluetooth will be their primary connection protocol.  Bluetooth absolutely sucks if you use as your only connection protocol for gaming since if you have a voice call going at the same time (e.g., Discord, Skype, etc), game sounds get downsampled to mono.

I hope their proprietary dongle will be the primary connection while a built-in Bluetooth receiver in the headset will enable supplementary mobile connectivity.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

kevikev said:


> I doubt Bluetooth will be their primary connection protocol.  Bluetooth absolutely sucks if you use as your only connection protocol for gaming since if you have a voice call going at the same time (e.g., Discord, Skype, etc), game sounds get downsampled to mono.
> 
> I hope their proprietary dongle will be the primary connection while a built-in Bluetooth receiver in the headset will enable supplementary mobile connectivity.



Yea - think I meant to put the emphasis on 'USB' not the transmission method really - don't think the Xbox supports audio via USB was the point I was trying to make (at least not without some extra licensing??)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2021)

----------
----------

*Creative SXFI Air*




$159.99 Air as of June 2019
*Where To Buy:* Creative



Spoiler: CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE REVIEW



*Review First Posted HERE.

Disclaimer: A special thanks to Creative for sending the Air out to me for impressions and review. I received the SXFI Air, and I fully expect the Air C to be nearly the same as the Air in terms of audio quality. The Air has more features than the Air C so even if you don't care too much about using the Air wirelessly, the price difference is small enough where it may still be better to opt for the Air over the Air C.

As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.



Intro*

Before I begin, I want to make something clear to a large selection of people here. If you are someone that absolutely can't stand or won't even attempt to understand the need for virtual surround dsps and their benefits, and think everything through headphones should be untouched stereo, no processes being applied, then you can stop reading here. This product is not for you, so don't waste your time in saying things like "this sound fake"  or "unnatural", etc. We've heard all the same arguments for years now. Move on. To everyone else that are a little more open-minded, the Creative SXFI Air may be something worth checking out, so please read on.

The Creative Air was something of a curiosity for me. I happened upon it online and was immediately interested in getting a chance to give it a go, for a few somewhat simple reasons. As someone who regularly uses virtual surround processing when using headphones, I wanted to see what Creative's newer Super X-FI brought to the table compared to more standardized DSPs like Creative's own SBX. Creative has their own SXFI AMP to use with any headphone, but as someone with a collection of other dac/amps that have to be constantly connected/disconnected, I didn't want to add to that growing problem. 1st world problem, I know.

I was also very interested in finding out how comfortable the fabric ear pads were. I'm a huge sucker for fabric ear pads, constantly on the hunt for that 'perfect' ear pad comfort. The fully fabric pads on the Air were an immediately "must try" for me.

That's really it. Somewhat unconventional reasons to be interested in a headphone, but sometimes, it's the smallest things that make or break a product. Despite the simple reasons to try the Air, I found that there are far, FAR more reasons why it's a must try, as it is a fully featured product that warrants much deeper investigation.

I'll initially spare you the intimate details about what makes the Air stand out from other headphones here, but here's an excerpt by Creative found on the product page:

_"This Bluetooth and USB headphone has built-in Super X-Fi technology that provides holographic audio personalized to your own ears for an unbelievable headphone experience that's as good as the real thing."_

Bold claim. Is it true? Well, the answer and my findings may surprise you!



*Build Quality*






Aesthetically, the Air doesn't stand out among the general crowd of bluetooth headsets. It has a simplistic design language, with the only stand out visual feature being the thin, but tasteful RGB illumination ring that surrounds the outer cups. When the RGB rings are off, there's little to identify the headphone from other visually similar headphones. It's a tried and tested design, but can come across as a bit boring, in terms of shape and silhouette. Thankfully, the RGB breaks the monotony. Just that added detail really gives the Air its own key visual aesthetic. I'm far from a fan of RGB, but it really does look nice here, not garish or gaudy.


*Headband:*

The Air's headband is of a very basic design, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's no overdesigned shenanigans. A basic leatherette wrapped headband with very little padding underneath. The padding is quite thin, but I have long said that padding is more or less inconsequential if the headband wraps over the head evenly without hotspots. The top side of the headband is the only area on the headphone with the Creative logo which is the color of the headband and only the shine of each letter lets it stand out. I hadn't noticed the logo in my dimly lit room, and initially thought there wasn't one.

The ends of the headband have the shiny plastic pieces with the Super X-fi logo on them. That is all the Air has in terms of identification. Very subtle.






The size extension is the only place of real contrast from the all black design. Silver with numbered lines (odd numbers) up to 11 makes it incredibly simple to adjust the size to your personal preference. The adjustment travels up and down with very little force on your part. I've come from some really hard to adjust headphones, so this is a breath of fresh air.


*Cups:*

The plastic cups are the most prominent area of the headphone, and aside from the RGB rings on each cup, are completely black and devoid of detail. At a distance, you'd mistake the Air for any manner of generic headphones. It is simply very, very understated in design. If you're someone who likes to show off your accessories, the Air won't do much for you, outside of personal RGB ring color choice. If you like your headphones to stand out, I think the white variant looks more visually engaging. Even so, I tend to lean towards understated and black, so the black variant suits me just fine. Looks aren't all that important to me, especially since I don't use full sized headphones in public spaces. The RGB rings give the Air their own personal flair, so they at least stand out from other headphones in that regard.

Functionally speaking, the left cup houses all the functions of the Air:

Power button

"Nanoboom" microphone - detachable with 3.5mm TRRS plug. Functions like a boom microphone but in a small form factor.






LED power indicator

USB type C input - Per Creative: "USB connectivity for PC and MAC. Same functionality available on PS4 and Nintendo Switch". This also, is how you charge the Air.

Aux/3.5mm line input -  allows you to use the Air with a variety of standard, analog devices. You can use the Air even when it is turned off with the line input, or leave it on to have access to the Super X-FI dsp, as well as volume control. Note: the line input is always active regardless of which other source you're using, so if (for example), you have the line in connected to a device, and USB connected to another device, both will play at the same time until you mute one. I'll go more in depth in the Amplification section.

Source/Bluetooth button - This button changes between your sources. USB, Bluetooth, SD Card sources. Holding it down enables bluetooth pairing mode.

SD card slot - This is a very interesting addition that I have never personally seen on any other headphone. If you simply want to hear music without a device, this is the way to go. It supports MP3, WMA, WAV, and FLAC file formats. I'll go into details about SD Card performance in a later section.

Super X-FI - This button enables/disables the SXFI dsp. When using the SXFI Control software on PC, you can use either this button or the toggle on the software itself to turn it on/off. SXFI does not work if the headphone is connected via line in if the Air is turned off, but does if turned on.

The placement of these buttons and inputs are easy to remember given a few days of use. I have a tougher time with the Audeze Mobius's functions even though I've had the headset on hand for a long time now. The placement of the Air's functions are quite intuitive for the most part.

On the left outer cup are the touch controls. "Users can answer a call, skip the song, or turn up the volume". I mainly used the cups for volume control which while intuitive, I found sporadically inconsistent in granularity, especially in bluetooth mode. At times I feel the volume adjusted very quickly, and other times I felt I was furiously swiping a bit longer than I believe normal. It works well enough, though I feel a volume wheel placed along all the other functions would have been more ideal. Perhaps where the SD card slot is, and relocate the SD card slot elsewhere, perhaps above the SXFI button. Just a suggestion for the future. A good volume wheel or buttons may be more simplistic, but offer more tactility and responsiveness. Sometimes function over form is best. There are other gestures, like swiping forward to skip to next track, or tapping twice to play/pause. Within a few attempts, it all becomes easy to remember, though I'd still rather just do those types of commands on my phone or computer.

The right cup is barren of any buttons, inputs or functions.

Each cup has a small amount of give in swivel and pivoting, just enough allow them to rest on various head shapes without issues. They don't collapse or fold inward, so portability is sacrificed a bit for more structural integrity.

As for driver exposure, they are each well protected by plastic, with an array of small round openings allow sound to pass through. The plastic is thick enough to keep most potential punctures from happening.


*Pads:




*

The pads, as previously stated, were one of the biggest reasons I wanted to try the Air. The pads are removable with a simply rotation to the left. They are oval in shape, with tall synthetic leather inner walls (for better seal), with decently sized ear cavities. The fabric used is breathable, and neoprene-like (if not neoprene itself). They are porous and coarse in texture, though the inner memory foam likely keeps any sound from moving through the pads. The memory foam keeps the pads from bottoming out or compressing easily. Each pad's driver covers have an L/R indicator, though there's nothing physically keeping you from using the pads on the wrong side. It's still a nice touch for those who aren't used to the left side of headsets typically being the side with the functions and cable inputs.

Creative sells synthetic leather pads for the Air if you prefer those types of pads instead. Creative sent me a pair of the synthetic leather pads as well, which I'll discuss later on.







*Cables:*

The Air comes with two cables. A 2m USB type C cable, and a 1.8m TRRS 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable. The cables get the job done and have a good length. My only complaint being that both cables have the type of rubberized finish that tends to grip or snag onto whatever it drags across, so personally, I'd replace them immediately with my own, less grippy cables.


*Final Build Quality Impressions:*

The Creative Air at first glance looks like so many other headphones aesthetically. Outside of the RGB ring and small, glossy piano black accents at the ends of the headband, it simply doesn't stand out any other way, visually. The build quality isn't special in any meaningful way, but feels sturdy and rugged enough to toss around in a bag without much of an issue (though I'd be careful in not scratching the piano black pieces). It's not collapsible, so there's less points of build failure compared to other headphones. The headphone may not feel tanky or super durable, but in its simplicity and basic build, it inspires some level of abandon. It looks durable enough for normal, everyday abuse. I wouldn't go around trying to test its limits, however.

There's little in the way of identifying the Air as a premium product or not. It simply exists as it is, take that as you will. I personally don't have a problem with understated designs as stated before. The Air is as good as I'd need it to be visually, durably, and functionally.



*Accessories*






Outside of the two cables and some booklets, the Air doesn't come with much else in the box. While I appreciate the option to buy spare pads, I think Creative should consider including the optional pads in the box, even if at a slight premium. It's nice to have options, but it's even nicer to have those options included. I don't normally care for non-essential goodies tacked on to a product, but spare pads are the welcome exception. There may be people that are the opposite of me in that they may dislike fabric pads and would rather use synthetic leather. With the Air, that's something they'll have to seek out, instead of having them in the box waiting to be easily installed.



*Comfort:*

Having been so interested in the pads prior to receiving the Air, comfort was of utmost importance, and an aspect of the Air that needed to be an undeniable success. Due to this, I knew ahead of time that I was going to take a somewhat critical approach in gauging the Air's comfort levels. Thankfully, there wasn't much about the Air's comfort that I could be overly critical of.


*Weight:*

At 338g, the Air is a welcome change from the 400+g headphone I have been using as of late. The Air's weight is in the realm that I consider good. Light enough to consider the weight an absolute non-issue, but hefty enough to feel like the Air isn't going to disintegrate in my hands.


*Headband:*

While there's nothing that sticks out on the headband in terms of designs to make it more comfortable compared to other similarly designed headphones, it is still a design that works relatively well. The underside of the headband doesn't have much in the way of padding, but considering that most of the weight is offset by clamping force, and not the downforce of the headphone's weight on the head, you really can't feel much of the headband. The small amount of padding is really all that is necessary in terms of headband comfort with the Air.


*Ear pads:*

Considering all the hubbub I've made about the pads, you'd think they'd better deliver in comfort. So did they? While I expected more comfort, they did deliver in most aspects. The breathable fabric keeps my ears relatively cool compared to...well, most headphones I've used. The ear cavities have just enough space for my ears with zero discomfort.

The only minor complaint, is that the pads (like so many fabric pads, which take getting used to for this very reason) are on the itchy side. The coarse surface just doesn't sit on the skin as comfortably as other, softer fabrics. It takes some minor getting used to, and the feeling does more or less go away with time. I'll take the initially itchy nature of these pads over the sweat inducing heat of synthetic leather any day of the week. In the end, they ceased to cause any form of discomfort, itch or otherwise. Creative has some good pads here.


*Clamp:*

The Air has moderate clamp. Not a clampy headphone by any means, though with enough force to keep the Air secure on the head, and also force the weight of the headphone to land more on the extremes, and less on the headband itself. This is around the ideal amount of clamping force for me, personally. Not loose, not too tight. Ideally, it could stand to be a hint more loose, but it's really just personal preference at that point.


*Final Comfort Impressions:*

The Creative Air is one of those headphones I can wear all day, with some periodic adjustment due to the pads. The pads themselves are quite breathable and don't trap heat all too much, thankfully. The weight is never a concern, nor is the clamp, though perhaps a slight reduction in force would be perfect for my head.

In the end, I can say the Air's comfort is great overall. Slightly less clamp in my favor, and a softer fabric on the pads would make the Air borderline excellent in comfort.



*Noise Control*

The Air has pretty good noise control inside and out. It attenuates external noise well enough for my needs, and keeps its own sound from leaking out without too much of an issue. Both mesh and synthetic leather pads give the Air good noise isolation. Someone in the same room may hear a very small amount of leakage, though not enough to be disturbing. A room away, even with the door open shouldn't pose a problem whatsoever. It gets an easy passing grade from me.



*Software*

The Air has three main software/apps that are needed in order to get full functionality. SXFI App, SXFI AIR Control, and SXFI Control (for PC).


*SXFI App (mobile app):*

The SFXI mobile app is needed to personalize your own head mapping, by going to the Personalize section. This consists of taking pictures of your head and ears so that the SFXI related functions work according to your own physical traits. I recommend having someone take the pictures for you, or if alone, standing in front of a mirror and using that to look at your mobile device taking the pictures at the correct angle. This section shows recent head maps by date and time. Before you connect the Air to your PC, personalization must be completed first.

The SFXI App may not be an app specific to the Air, but it gives you all the necessary functions, and goes well beyond the scope of the Air headset itself. Things like a music player, equalizer, among a bevy of other options. Check it out, even if you don't own a Creative product. It works with other headphones too, and allows you to test out SXFI with your own music, on your own headphones. That being said, for the specific use of the Creative SXFI Air, they should've just imported the required head mapping functions to the Air Control app, so as to not necessitate the use of this app. It's one app too many.


*SXFI Air Control (Air specific mobile app):*

This app comes a much smaller selection of functions, but I'll only be highlighting one: Lighting. You'll find a lighting toggle to turn ther RGB rings on/off. Below that you'll find a full color wheel, brightness slider, RGB numerical values, hex number for colors selected, and finally 7 solid color presets: Blue, Purple, Red, Orange, Green, Cyan, White.

The other functions are mostly the same as ones in the main SXFI app as well as the PC app. That, and digital versions of the functions found directly on the headset like the source selection, and Super X-fi toggle. You can more or less decide whether you want to use the features on the main app, or similar features (like eq) on this app. Personally, I recommend just using the main app, and not even bothering with this app, outside of lighting. It'll save you some potential headaches in the future. The reason I would use the other one is mainly due to the fact it has the required head mapping function. This one doesn't have any truly necessary functions, just redundancies. If Creative ever decides to import head mapping functions to this app, then, and only then will I recommend this app over the other one.


*SXFI Control (PC software):*

The PC software is intuitive and effective for the purpose of PC use. You get similar Super X-FI, EQ, Lighting, like the Air Control mobile app, except this one is more useful in that you'll need it to make changes on PC. Setup is also where you can change the amount of speakers between Stereo, 5.1, 7.1. You'll definitely want to use 7.1 for best SXFI performance (virtual surround dsp).

One thing not mentioned is that the Air on PC can accept 24bit/96khz playback, which you'll want to enable through windows sound control panel.


*Final Software/App impressions:*

All three programs are intuitive and easy to use on their own. Nice, clean interfaces, and useful features. Unfortunately, the absurdity in the fact you need three programs isn't lost on me. Three decent programs alone are fine, but become an undesirable mess when they're all (somewhat) necessary to use in some way.

No one should have to download three programs for one product. I completely understand the need for one mobile app, and one PC program, but to split functions and features on mobile to two programs is a baffling decision. At the very least, the core necessities found on the main SXFI app should just be added to the Air Control app directly, so that people don't need both at once. Creative, you absolutely must rethink about doing this in the future. If you add the head mapping aspect of the main app to Air Control, it will drastically simplify the process, as well as eliminate the clutter of programs.

I'm not even going into detail in how the redundant functions shared between apps can cause conflicts and other bugs. Things like app unresponsiveness, broken music players, or the two equalizers that overwrite one another as you mess with one over the other. It's these minor issues that lead to a frustrating user experience. It's a shame too, because it detracts from an otherwise solid product.

Don't get me wrong. If you're someone like me who tends to "set it and forget it", and doesn't use superfluous options like Equalizers or app specific music players (I'm sure you already have your own preferred EQ and music programs), you won't have to deal with these apps much outside of initial uses. The SXFI app can be used just to personalize your head mapping. The Air Control app can be used to mess with the RGB lighting. How often are you really going to be changing that anyways? The PC app can be used on a more regular basis, but at least it won't have another program sharing similar features. The initial experiences with these apps lone are absolutely fine. The problem arises with prolonged, extensive uses of the mobile apps.

It's hard to say whether the user experience is good or bad, because it will drastically vary depending on how you use the programs. For the easiest, most painless user experiences, my recommendation is: Personalize your head mapping on the SXFI app. DON'T download SXFI Air Control (You don't need it, seriously). Do all the other stuff on the SXFI Control PC app. Finally,  do all headset related functions directly on the headset itself (source changes, SXFI on/off, SD card playback). That will make the user experience much, MUCH better.

Summing it up, Creative, you can and should do better in terms of user experience. Each app's lone experience = good, having to use so many, and the minor quirks that happen when doing so = not good.



*Sound*

_(Note: All of my testing was done with the mesh/fabric ear pads. The synthetic leather pads may alter the sound, so don't expect a full 1:1 similarity in impressions. Also, all my main testing has been done through the USB and SD card inputs, as those have the cleanest sound compared to Bluetooth, which while fine, isn't the best in extracting the best potential out of the Air. The Aux input when can go from being the worst sounding of the inputs while the Air is turned on, or arguably the best sounding when the Air is turned off, and an amp/dac is used. I didn't focus my testing in this manner, as it's not the main use case for the Air.)_

Ok, the Air's sound is something I'm excited to talk about. The Air is quite versatile even in terms of its own sound. How do I approach it? Stereo, raw, unprocessed? Sure, that's the easiest way to find if the Air's sound quality is any good, but then, it really doesn't make sense to get the SXFI Air for the purpose of using it completely raw and untouched. Its supposed killer feature is the SXFI 'holographic' sound, as well as the Air's specific additions of Bluetooth and SD card playback compared to the Air C which lacks those two latter features.

As the key feature on the Air, I feel SXFI should be the defining tech and sound that drives people into getting it in the first place. I'll still talk about the Air's less defining features, like basic stereo use, or how it sounds passively through my own gear, but unlike most of my reviews, it will not be my main focus. I'll include the Air's passive sound impressions in the Amplification/Passive section. The biggest problem in terms of sound impressions I can see occurring  is that due to the personalized head mapping, it may alter the level of presence in each frequency compared to the untouched, stereo form of the Air's sound.

I ultimately decided to focus on likely the most intended use case for the Air: USB PC use. I'll mention any key differences through Bluetooth and SD card use in their own sections.



*Bass (Stereo):*

The Air's bass section is what I could at best describe as taut, if a bit reigned in. Frequency tests show it goes down to an audible 30hz, with a moderate amount of impact. It's well controlled and tight. I'd essentially would describe it as neutrally toned, if a little on the dry side. Decay is snappy, not bloomy or sluggish. It's clearly not tilted towards bass, making it more an audible affair than physical sentation. Low notes have little weight, certainly not enough to bring attention to itself. Body is on the light side. It's not lacking in musicality, but it could stand to gain a little bit of warmth in the extreme low end. For bass influenced tracks, the mid bass in particular is decent, never overwhelming or lost in the background. It is with regular, non-bass content that it may sound less than moderate. Just don't expect a lot of low frequency notes in the sub sections.

In the end, I actually like this amount for a headset, as it's well balanced, and allows general details to shine through, instead of stealing the spotlight. Musically, yes, I would prefer some more emphasis, but it's not like the bass is missing. Just dialed down in energy.


*Bass (SXFI)*

To say the bass becomes the complete opposite of the bass in stereo mode is an understatement. With SXFI, the Air packs a massive, incredibly deep and potent amount of low end. Not boomy for the sake of boominess, but a lethal injection of low end, carnal instinct. It is strong, but not in the obnoxious way. There is no way SXFI would work well if the bass detracted and smothered the rest of the sound. It does not. It releases all the low end anger that was contained when SXFI is turned off.

During frequency tests, all that information that was more or less inaudible in stereo below 30hz is rumbly and atmospheric. Whereas bass on the Air is more or less heard, not felt in stereo, there is a definite sensation of rumble and texture when SXFI is on. Bass leans towards the lower sub spectrum. Mid bass is good, not decadent. There is a huge dip at around 75hz that acts as a sort of clear line between everything below and everything above it, as just past 80hz, the bass comes back alive.

I personally prefer stronger sub bass over mid bass any day of the week, so it suits my preferences nicely. The bass really brings the theater sound of SXFI to an impressive level, making it much more immersive than if the bass had remained simply neutral and indistinct. There is commanding presence that when paired with the absolutely stellar virtual soundstage, makes for a sound that has to simply be experienced to be believed. It's a harmonious, immersive, atmospheric combination. As for bleeding into the rest of the sound, there is a slight creep into the midrange with bass heavy tracks, but I feel it's more energy below adding warmth, ambience, and atmosphere, and not the one note thump of mid bass overeagerness. It could stand to have more control and less bloominess when SXFI is on, but I feel it's not a big factor overall, as sounds are so separated in the gigantic SXFI soundstaging, it doesn't come across as intrusive.

One problem I have in terms of bass (at least on the pair I have on hand), is that when SXFI is on, there is a sort of distortion/noise floor below 70hz, as well as the area around 100hz up to 200hz (this one is more audible). As soon as you hit 70hz and above, it disappears, until you hit around 100hz to 200hz, and then disappears entirely above that. The changes is actually obvious when doing frequency tests. However, I do have to note that this is something I only pick up during frequency tests, and I don't even notice it during regular use, whether because so many things are happening with regular content, or my mind just ignores it. It's really not something to be worried about, but it has to be said. It's likely artifacts of the bass interacting with the SXFI processing. It may just be this pair. It may be something else entirely. Whatever it may be, I wouldn't be concerned about it. Picky people would likely skip using SXFI to begin with.  The Air is a sub-optimal choice for the utter purist that think audio should be kept within headspace on a headphone. I'm not such a person.

It's a bummer that the bass isn't as clean as its stereo incarnation, but its mainly an objective shortcoming, not a subjective one. I have been using the Air exclusively for awhile now (in SXFI mode), and not once did I feel the bass was detrimental to the undeniably special experiences I've had with the Air. The immersion, and emotional impact of its presence is far and above the more significant aspects of its bass.



*Midrange to treble (stereo):*

I'll start off with the frequency tests. Low midrange to about 1.4khz is nice and balanced, after then it dips quite a bit 1.4khz until around 3khz. 3khz up to 4khz has good presence. Slight dip at 4.5khz, and potential hot spot at 5khz. Another drop off past 5.5khz to a possible hot spot at 6.5khz which has a ringing in my ears. Moving the frequency slider up and down the subtle ringing always exists in a small section between 6.5khz and 7khz. It's quite subtle, and may not be a factor with regular content. Past 7khz is a nicely balanced presence all the way up to 14khz without piercing hotness, or veil.

So aside from the dip at 1.4khz or so, and peaks around 3.5khz, 5khz, and 7khz, there's nothing that stands out as being too subdued or too prominent. The general spectrum of audible sound despite the low sub bass, and dip at 1.4khz is all very present and generally balanced, making it a good headphone for linear detail. 5khz is a little on the hot side in particular, but isn't overly zingy. 8khz up to 10khz is a bit zesty sounding (despite not being particularly over emphasized), so if you prefer warm, smooth treble, the Air is not that. There is plenty presence here to aid in detail retrieval.

There's nothing particularly distinct or special about the mid to treble ranges on the Air. It's just a nicely presented area of sound without leaning too far in any direction. The 6.5-7khz 'noise' is audible in testing and may present and less than clean section in that range, but again it's not noticeable under normal use cases. The zesty sting of the 8-10khz range may not be the most ideal for people who love warmth and smoothness.

All in all, I'm happy with the mid and treble ranges here, though nothing stands out as worth mentioning as a strength or utter deficiency. It's not the most detail I've heard in these ranges, nor the most musical. It's just there, and for the sake of providing a good template for SXFI to do its thing, the Air's midrange to treble is all that it needs to be. Again, people should place the most importance in performance with SXFI to begin with. There's other headphones better suited for basic stereo use. The Air gets the job done, which is all I'd need it to here.


*Midrange to Treble (SXFI):*

This section is going to be harder to dial down as SXFI dramatically alters the sound in various ways, in which I also have to take the ridiculous soundstage expansion into account. It's simply impossible to do an A/B comparison against its stereo incarnation, because it all would sound recessed and spaced back by typical stereo contraints. Not that I ever recommend anyone ever compare stereo aspects of headphones to headphones utilizing any form of virtual surround. It's night and day, and should be looked at as their own separate entities. Its akin to comparing a headphone to a theater's speaker array. You just can't and/or shouldn't.

Let me start off with what's most simple. Or so I thought. Frequency testing reveals that the presentation of SXFI is so weird, it's hard to do a traditional frequency check. To my ears, the sound sort of 'wobbles' between both my ears as I change the frequency slider. It's almost an uncomfortable experience attempting a frequency "by the ears", test. I won't go into details here due to that odd sensation, making it hard to pinpoint areas of emphasis or deficiencies. I'll say that aside from that clear dipped line at 75hz in the bass section, the only other area of blunted lack of presence is just below 6khz, and it's such a small range, it may as well not be worth mentioning. There is a big jump in volume as you start going up past 3khz or so, and the detail retrieval extends well into 14khz, making the Air quite detail oriented in SXFI mode. This is noteworthy, as I used the Air for SXFI gaming and found it really, really good at picking up all but the most minute of details. Spoilers: The Air makes an excellent detail oriented gaming headset. No surprise here.



*Soundstage and Imaging (stereo):*

Without SXFI enabled, I can at best sum up the soundstage and imaging as pretty standard fare for a closed back, dynamic headphone. Nothing stands out as particularly special to my ears, though it's rare for any headphone to stand out for me in terms of stereo soundstage and imaging. The Air is not particularly restrictive or closed sounding. On the contrary, there is a decent amount of width and depth, despite its closed nature. Despite that, I rarely see any true standouts, as it basically comes down to headphones that keep everything around your headspace, to headphones that keep everything around your headspace but extend out an inch or two more. It's still a headphone presentation which I'm not generally fond of in this regard. The Air doesn't falter, nor does it succeed in making me think any different. However, we're not here to microanalyze the Air in stereo form.


*Soundstage and Imaging (SXFI):*

Oh boy, here is where Creative has provided the Air with its delicious magic sauce. As someone highly accustomed to virtual surround digital sound processing of many makes and models, I didn't expect much of a revelation out of SXFI. I mean, compared to Creative's own, (and still excellent) SBX surround, to other dsps from other makers like Dolby and Sennheiser, how could SXFI hope to stand out? I mean once you've heard and become accustomed to the strengths and shortcomings of virtual surround, you would think SXFI can't bring anything unique to the table. Audeze has an effective virtual surround with head tracking, not unique to Audeze, they managed to bring it to the masses at a lower price of entry. Creative's head mapping personalization is unique, sure, but doesn't have the feature of head tracking, so surely it's not going to stand out, right? Is head mapping personalization truly that important? I'm not the one to ask. However, I can say, and this may come as a surprise, SXFI is arguably the BEST virtual surround processing I have experienced. By that I mean no other surround dsp has so utterly tricked my mind into thinking the sound is coming from my room and my external gear like SXFI. Rarely do I ever feel like "Oh yeah, I have headphones on."

To compare, you can have things like Dolby Headphone in room 3, or Sennheiser's GSX with the higher room ambience settings which sound utterly reverberous and horribly artifical. They become echo chambers that ruin any audio they touch. Yes, the soundstage becomes massive and far beyond the scope of stereo headphone sound, but it just doesn't sound any good in those modes. Its understandable why they tend to stick with more moderate room size settings. The difference here is that SXFI throws out such an amazingly large sense of space in all directions without the catastrophic destruction of sound quality that usually happens on other dsps. Don't get me wrong, the presentation is still detrimental in terms of complete and utter audio purity (we are talking about altering the raw signal and applying a process which will always tend to distort the original in some ways), but these are the kinds of tradeoffs that need to be made in orfder to gain so much more in other areas. For instance, you can have an amazing OLED 8K display in front of you which looks absolutely amazing, but it's still limited to a 2D image. But then you have VR displays which may not be as high resolution, and is only viewable by the person using the VR headset, but drastically alter how you view content, to the point where you may feel as if you're inside the VR space itself. It's a transformative experience.

SXFI is like that. It becomes a transportation vehicle between your headphone, and a virtual theater. You're no longer listening to a pair of headphones. You're in a virtual space where sound is everywhere, and it feels 'natural'. A headphone can't generally make you feel like you're not listening to headphones. At least not without some surround dsp applied, or pre-recorded binaural audio.

This isn't unique to SXFI, as generally all the other surround dsps we know and love all emulate a room full of surround speakers. The difference here is that SXFI truly, TRULY succeeds in fooling even someone like me into feeling like this isnt just a dsp applied to a headphone. It really DOES sound like I'm listening to something other than my headphones with a dsp applied. Creative calls it holographic. I'm in total agreement. Even as I type this, I still sthink to myself "I'm sure my speakers aren't on?" I get that feeling much more with the Air and SXFI than any other dsp, period. No questions about it.

The soundstage and imaging the Air provides through SXFI is the key defining feature, and the main reason you should even consider buying this headphone. If you're not interested in SXFI or anything related to this type of technology, you're looking at the wrong headphone. Simple as that. It is magic, it is awe-inspiring, and it is a once in a lifetime, must try, kind of feature.

Before I move on, I need to clarify some things. Like a surround setup, this will cause music to mainly from the set of virtual front speakers in front of you. In order to get the rear spatial audio information, just must feed the Air's SXFI a 5.1 or 7.1 signal through the PC.

Note: PS4 and other consoles will be limited to stereo upconversions, not 5.1 or 7.1, even through their usb ports. This makes Creative's claim that it works through those consoles a bit misleading. Sure, it technically supports them, but not to their best abilities, where one would think it can replace console friendly headsets that take advantage of full surround support. Creative, if you're seeing this, you need a disclaimer like on to the product page: "5.1/7.1 modes only supported through PC. All Consoles limited to 2.0 support." It's only right.


*Clarity (stereo):*

The Air is a generally clear sounding headphone in most aspects of sound. The dip between 1.4khz or so up to 3khz is more like a general softening in this area, and not a complete loss of presence. It is lesser in volume compared to most of the sound, so there is some softness there that may cause of lack of clarity compared to the rest of the sound. Low treble all the way up to essentially human limits is exceptionally present, keeping the Air from being anything but a detailed closed back headphone. It's not a detail monster, and quality could manage to improve for next iteration, but it is very respectable here, and I doubt most but the most discerning would have an issue with the Air's general clarity.


*Clarity (SXFI):*

The Air's changes in tonal balance due to a noticeable highlighting of sub 70hz bass really adds a layer of body and warmth into the mix.

The drastic change in soundstage and overall presentation puts sound placement at a noticeable distance, so details aren't as 'easy' to pick up as when SXFI is off. The area in frequencies around 3khz are the loudest part of the sound, so there is still plenty of detail to find, though more of the overall sound is considerably smoother, and softer. There is presence in everything past that 3khz except a dip at 6khz which is small in range, and doesn't detract from the rest of the sound being well extended to 14khz, as stated before.

Clarity will be up to how you process the sounds being spaced quite some distance from your position, compared to the regular stereo presentation which makes the much closer sound placement easier to dissect.

The one aspect that I'm sure will be a point of contention is how SXFI affects voices. Yes, as a specialized dsp, there will be some reverb added to the sound, which will cause vocals to not sound as perfect and ideal as they do compared to a stereo headphone presentation. Again, it would do everyone a world of good to not directly compare the typical headphone's tonal quality and presence, as this isn't exactly a fair comparison. SXFI should at this point be compared to a nicely setup home theater, if anything. That should give you more of an idea how voices come across. Not as pristine, obviously, but presentation will be similar.



*Sound Signature:*

In stereo, the Air has a neutral balancing with smoothness in 1.4khz up to around 3khz. After that, despite a few peaks, the rest of the sound is quite well balanced and mostly linear with good extension. It's not sleepy sounding,  nor immediately engaging. Just a generally well behaved headphone, if not particularly noteworthy in performance. Not super articulate, but balancing is good. There is some zestiness to the treble which isn't as clean sounding as higher tiered headphones, but these are things that won't be immediately identifiable with normal use. The Air's soundstage and imaging isn't particularly excellent or with obvious flaws. It's respectable here as well.

With SXFI, the Air takes on a warmer character, with smoothness in a lot of its sound, despite some prominence after 3khz. Nothing is overly smooth, despite an obvious dip at 6khz. Less upper range sizzle than stereo, though with more extension. It seems SXFI adds a moderate v shaped curve to the sound considering the obvious ultra low end bass boost and treble extension well past 10khz. That being said, this could definitely be limited to my customized head mapping, so your experience may be far different from mine. I'm unsure what the head mapping changes in terms of frequencies, if anything. Moving on, the Air soundstage with SXFI can't be understated. The easiest description I can write is: You will no longer be listening to a headphone's soundstage. You will be listening to a very convincing rendition of a virtual theater. Soundstage is absolutely massive. No headphone in stereo, no matter how costly, no matter how huge the soundstage will compare to something that no longer sounds like a headphone. You're no linger limited to that presentation. The best headphone's soundstage in stereo wouldn't be able to compare to this. I promise you.



*Amplification/Passive Use*

The Air through the Aux input is very, very interesting.

Like Audeze's Mobius which has to run all signals through the internal DAC, the Air has a similar process to run it's Aux input through an ADC and then the internal DAC so you can take advantage of SXFI (limited to 2 channels converted to SXFI), as well as being able to utilize the volume control. Unlike the Mobius, you can use the Air in a completely passive manner. This means you can turn the Air off, connect an aux cable to your favorite sources, and you'll be able to use the Air like any other headphone, no internal power required. That means attaching it to your own DAC and amplifier if you wish. The Air is 32ohm and quite sensitive, so it doesn't require a ton of power. I recommend focus to be aimed towards a clean source more than how much power is being fed to it.

I don't know why anyone would look into the Air if they're not planning on utlizing SXFI on a regular basis. That being said, if you're like me who more or less prefers to listen to music unprocessed, but watch visual media with SXFI or other virtual surround dsps, I actually found that it sounds best when using your own gear. Of course, that means losing the ability to use SXFI, embedded volume control, or the internal sound dac/amp subtleties.

Having tested that briefly through my Schiit Modi 3 and Magni 3, I found the sound to have some noteworthy changes.

Running frequency tests, the restraint in the bass has been replaced by a subtle injection of warmth and musicality down low. Bass is no longer so reserved and a little light. It's not a drastic change, more like making the sound more fluid and bigger bodied. Bass is more impactful, whereas it was more audible than physical through USB. Midrange comes across a little more forward as well, whereas it seemed just a hint cooler/more neutrally toned before. There is still the same general curve of linearity, and peaks/hot spots as the USB signal. So don't expect night and day in terms of overall characteristics. It's just more fleshed out. More tangible and organic than before.

This could all be an effect of my Schiit Modi 3/Magni 3 stack which may be slightly leaning towards being neutral with a hint of warmth, but it at the very least gives me enough to go on in saying that your own gear may be beneficial to overall sound quality compared to the built in dac and amp. I wholeheartedly recommend giving the aux input a chance if you're curious. I do believe it gives the Air the highest quality stereo sound it is capable of.

Testing the Aux input while the Air is turned on is a different story. There is an audible noise floor (though it's really not a huge factor in overall enjoyment), but it immediately makes the aux input while the Air powered a poor choice in terms of pristine audio quality. It's fun to try out for devices without bluetooth capabilities or USB inputs, but it would definitely be the last resort. It does allow for the use of SXFI on those devices, while passive use doesn't, giving the feature some merit.

The one truly worthwhile function the powered aux input allowed, was being able to directly compare SXFI's effects on stereo content vs other virtual surround dsps directly. Plugging the Air to my Creative G6, or Astro Mixamp 5.8 allowed me to see just how drastic a difference SXFI was to typical virtual surround dsps. For example, turning off SBX and then toggling on SXFI on the headset directly allowed quick moment to moment changes. Same with the Mixamp.

Both SBX and Dolby Headphone just could not compare to SXFI's sense of space. SXFI's soundstage showcases more verticality than the other dsps, which was essentially a limiting factor in many dsps. It's really unique and effective. Depth was also a significant difference, where SXFI really stuck out as placing cues at a more realistic distance. That being said, SBX is still the least likely to offend the typical audio purist as it affects sound quality less than any other dsp I've heard. It just doesn't impress in terms of virtual surround characteristics as much as SXFI.

Long story short, don't dismiss the Air's 3.5mm/Aux input. It's a surprisingly effect, raw stereo performer here in passive mode. Whereas I would've said the Air isn't a particularly amazing headphone in stereo mode before, it absolutely levels up when paired with decent external gear. It turns the Air from a decent headphone for stereo use, to a very good headphone for stereo use.



*Bluetooth*

The SXFI Air's bluetooth capabilities are a mixed bag. The downsides being that it's limited to the SBC codec, so it makes a poor choice for wireless gaming due to high latency, as well as it being the worst codec for audio quality, at least on paper.

In terms of sound quality through bluetooth, it still very much sounds like its other inputs, though with some detriments. Running frequency tests, there is some audible ringing from 15hz all the way to about 150hz, so essentially the entire bass section has some noise. It's not something noticed while under normal listening conditions, but running these tests makes the noise fairly obvious. It seems to be tied to volume, as it is inaudible at lower volumes, and quite noticeable with moderate to high volumes. Again, don't expect to hear it normally.

In frequency areas around 400hz there is another zone of ringing as well. In the lower treble up to high treble, there are certain areas that seem to also have some moderate noise from a lower frequency mixed in. For example, around 4.2khz seems to have a faint bit of 1.2khz mixed into the background. It's quite odd, but it's quite faint. Again, these are things you're not going to pick up under normal use cases, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Running tests with SXFI enabled, the same frequencies with noise persist. The one major change is that the 50hz area seems to have a dip in bass volume though it picks back up and normalizes at 60hz.

Overall, this isn't the best implementation of bluetooth I've heard, but as someone not super picky with my wireless audio (my Astro Mixamp 5.8 has some obvious hiss particularly at high levels, and I've been used to it for years), the Air's bluetooth sound quality is more than passable, especially when all these quirks aren't really audible outside of long frequency test. The Air doesn't exhibit any noticeable hiss either, which is even better than the Audeze Mobius in terms of background noise.

Unless you're expecting a wired level sound quality, I doubt you'll have much of a problem with the Air's wireless performance. It could definitely stand to be better, but overall, it's an enjoyable experience outside of testing.



*SD Card*

The Air has the quite unique ability to allow for SD card playback. Micro SD cards to be more precise. Simply load up an SD card with your favorite music tracks, and you're good to go. The files will playback in a random/shuffled manner, and it accepts folders, so no need to just throw raw tracks. I had a spare micro SD card which I loaded up with a very old, small catalog of music files (especially a lot of free OC Remix video game tracks). Playback was near instant, and probably the cleanest sounding, digitally. I would argue that the audio files coming from the SD card sounded just as good as the ones I played through the USB input, all while being wireless. It's a wonderful feature on the Air. As for what files it can read: MP3, WMA, WAV, and FLAC formats are supported. You can also use touch controls to pause or skip tracks.

I quite enjoy this inclusion, and wish other wireless headphone had this ability.



*Gaming*

It should come of no surprise by now, that SXFI is an absolute marvel when gaming. The ridiculously large soundstaging, incredible positional accuracy within that space, and sense of immersion are all an ideal combination for gaming. There's not much for me to say that I haven't already stated in the soundstage section. Critically speaking, SXFI's injection of bass and treble may not be the most ideal in terms of hardcore, competitive consistency, but as someone who has used the Air for gaming for weeks on end, I found so little to complain about, I can't give it anything but high marks for gaming purposes. The Air isn't the ultimate detail oriented headphone, nor is it of the highest fidelity, but when you're so immersed into the action, you tend to focus on all the things it does right, which to me, is a lot.

The Creative SXFI Air is fantastic for gaming. That's all I really need to say.

To repeat what I said in the soundstage section, this is a reminder that the full surround experience can only be had through PC use. Consoles only get stereo upconversions with SXFI.



*Microphone*



As you can hear, it's a bit low end heavy/bassy/boomy. I think it could stand to be leaning more toward midrange and treble, but it's passable. I'm not too worried about my microphone quality as long as it's not a terrible mess. The Air's mic is fine for my limited/casual purposes.



*Optional Synthetic Leather Ear Pads*






The Synthetic ear pads have a similar shape and size to the mesh ear pads. They also seem to have the same internal memory foam, at similar density.






As stated previously, removing and replacing the pads is a very simple affair. You simply grab hold of the pads and turn the pads counter-clockwise (I recommend holding the rim near where the pads meet the plastic). They easily come off at that point. To place the pads back on, simply do the opposite by orienting the top side of the pads (12 o clock on the pad) to 10 o'clock on the surface of the driver enclosure. The notches will line up, and all you have to do is turn the pads clockwise to lock them in place. The pads each have an L/R indicator placed on the driver mesh screen.

To my surprise, I didn't find almost any sound quality difference between the pads. It's hard to do a true A/B comparison, and the leather pads may be ever so slightly darker sounding, with a deeper, and warmer bass section, and slightly longer decay (likely due to slightly better seal). However, the differences are too small for me to be confident in saying this. It's close enough for me to not feel the need to write a whole section on sound differences. I even tried to use one mesh pad on one side and one synthetic leather pad on the other, having noticed during frequency checks that the balance remained mostly neutral between the pads. No significant changes going from one pad to the other. It essentially makes the choice between pads down to personal preference.

I would expect some people to be put off by the default pad's mesh fabric, as it is initially itchy. On the opposite side of the spectrum are people like me that just don't normally care for the feeling of synthetic leather as it rests on the skin, as it can trap heat and cause discomfort.

I find that the synthetic ear pads are actually very comfortable, not unlike the mesh pads once you the itchy feeling goes away. The difference being that the buildup of heat is worse on these pads compared to the cooler feel of the mesh pads. Still, had the Air come with with the synthetic leather pads by default, I wouldn't have been offended. I do think that Creative should consider adding these pads to the packaging, even if it added to the cost by a slight amount. Giving people the choice to pick which pads suit their preference. Both should be included.



*Personal Recommendations

Media:*

As a stereo headphone, the neutrally toned, balanced sound makes it a chameleon for most purposes. It's not a headphone that highlights anything in any significant way, but should suit most media well unless you like particularly bombastic bass, and fluid, engaging musicality.

With SXFI, it becomes a whole other monster entirely, where its bass and humongous sense of space makes any content immediately immersive and surreal. It is a gaming beast, a fantastic movie headphone, and great for relaxing to podcasts and whatnot, as it puts those voice in front of you as if they're sitting a few feet ahead. It's quite an experience, and I find very little that I wouldn't use with SXFI, music included.


*Practicality:*

The Air is so versatile, I think it makes more sense to talk about what I wouldn't recommend with the Air. And what may that be? Not much. Of course, this isn't a high end headphone, and you can likely find better audio purist level headphones without SXFI that make a more logical choice for people who hate anything touching the most basic, raw form of audio piped through headphones.

For everyone else, the Air just does so much, so well. As a PC usb headphone/headset, you get all the goods. Up to 7.1 SXFI so it makes a perfect PC gaming headset. Very clean audio that supports up to 24bit/96khz as well.

As SD Card player, you can just add a bunch of music files of various formats to the card, insert it to the Air's micro SD card reader, and enjoy as the headset shuffles all the music. The audio quality is exceptionally clean here, and like Bluetooth, you're untethered, without the sound quality hit associated with Bluetooth.

As a Bluetooth headphone, you are free to use the Air anywhere for any reason, not just limited to music. Perhaps not the best codec, but it still sound quite good.

I nearly forgot to mention, but the Air has a rated 10 hours of battery life. I wasn't able to personally test this, so your mileage may vary.

As a regular headphone through the aux/3.5mm input with a standard cable, no power, fully passive, no gimmicks, and no features, the Air is a potent audio beast. In terms of raw, unprocessed stereo fed through a quality dac and amplifier, the Air is musical, engaging, and deceptively high fidelity. It won't unseat any bang for back standard headphones in its price range, but it is no slouch whatsoever. It's really good here.

If you want to pipe any audio and give it the magical SXFI touch, you can use the aux input while the Air is turned on. In terms of utter audio clarity, it isn't the ideal choice, but the tradeoff may be worth it, to get that theater-esque frontal projection.

As for portability, the Air is a full sized headphone, but isn't particularly huge, so if you're ok wearing full sized headphones in public, the Air is a great choice. In terms of portability, it doesn't collapse into a smaller footprint, so it's a headphone you'll have to leave around the neck unless you have a large bag to toss it in. The matte plastic exterior gives enough confidence that it won't show much wear and tear, though the glossy pieces may exhibit some scratches if not careful.



*Likes and Dislikes*
​*Likes:*

Comfort
Versatility
Robust Features
SXFI is a game changer
Price to performance
Price to features
SD card playback
Passive playback (powered off, aux input use)

*Dislikes:*

Too many apps/software for one device
Software nitpicks, redundancies, bugs, glitches
AptX support would've been ideal for Bluetooth
Slow response from Power/Source selection button
Volume wheel would've been preferable due to touch control inconsistencies, especially in bluetooth mode
No full console compatibility



*Final Impressions*

I'll simply state right now that upon first listening to the Air, my initial reaction was quite negative. I wasn't impressed. I was actually close to declining a review of the Air. I almost jumped the gun, which I always preach NOT to do with headphones. As always, all things take their time when it comes to our ears. That's why I'll never believe someone's negative take on headphones based off a short few minute demo session. It sometimes take days or even a week to really get acclimated with a sound your ears aren't accustomed to.

I gave it a few more head mapping passes, and tried again. And again. As time passed and my brain and ears became accustomed to the drastic difference it makes to all sound, well, I found myself wanting to use SXFI more and more. Let me tell you guys a simple, perhaps harsh truth about me. Have a seat.

I don't really do much headphone listening outside of work/portable use (Koss PortaPro wireless without the headband, attached with KSC75 clips instead). I hardly game with headphones anymore, nor do I sit at home listening to music or any other general media. I basically use headphones at home nowadays when I use my Koss KSC75X in bed late at night so as not to wake anyone else. That, and when I do my reviews. Full sized headphones don't normally get any use. What does any of this have to do with the Creative SXFI Air? I'm getting there.

While I greatly attribute my lack of headphone use to just not being a fan of wearing a device on my head for prolonged periods (hence why I really love my portable clip ons, which I can even use while laying down), the Air has provided me with one great truth. It has revealed to me that I don't particularly like the presentation of sound as emitted by headphones in general. I know, this is absolute blasphemy coming from a supposed audiophile. Please don't misunderstand. Music listening through headphones is a beautiful experience. That is not my implication. I'm talking about things outside of music. Within the confines of strict stereo sound through headphones, I find that I don't like other content. Things like general TV, podcasts, Youtube, and movies.

It sounds internalized, and smaller than life most of the time. Yes, we can talk about large soundstages and great imaging on headphones, but we're still talking about confining sound to a small area very close to the head. It doesn't sound real. It sounds like, well, sound through headphones. Your brain knows when it's listening to headphones. That distinction causes a subconscious discomfort for me, where I would rather just listen to my bad TV speakers most of the time. Of course, TV speakers aren't real life, but my ears know I'm listening to sounds coming from a source in front of me...through both ears at the same time. That is a very important distinction. Why this isn't an issue with music is likely because music to me doesn't have something tangible attached to it. Music is more or less something without a 'body'. It simply exists as sounds for me, so my brain doesn't find discomfort in the stereo rendition of it. That being said, even with music, I'm now finding myself preferring the more virtualized, theater sound SXFI places music in more and more.

People talk about how virtual surround or any other digital sound processing is unnatural, yet the questions is...how? A headphone's rendition of sound by default is unnatural to our ears. We aren't supposed to hear all manner of objects and things inside our head. Yes, tonality of the sound can be natural and correct through headphones, but the soundscape, and the manner our ears pick up sound through headphones is the definition of unnatural. We have two drivers strapped to our ears injecting two different sources of sound to each ear. Virtual surround may have some artifacts and other problems that lead us to believe they don't sound as natural, but in terms of presenting sound to our ears, they attempt and succeed in emulating how our ears naturally pick up sounds. With a good virtualized surround, we can hear things behind us properly, or as if they're coming from across the room, as opposed to some compact area around our head.

The Creative SXFI Air has caused me to listen and enjoy all the content I used to dislike through headphones in stereo form. Perhaps this is one other reason why I greatly prefer playing video games with virtual surround. Not only because it's effective in locating sounds around me, but because it sounds more natural in presentation. Creative's SXFI tech has allowed me to truly understand this truth about myself more so than any other virtual surround technologies I've used to date. SXFI is an experience anyone with an open mind needs to have.

As for everything about the Creative Air itself, I'll start by being critical. Yes, it's not the greatest headphone ever made. Take away all of its features, and its a pretty run of the mill type of headphone. A good one, mind you (especially and surprisingly, when it is turned off and attached to audio gear), but nothing about that truly stands out. The sea of software bloat and quirks in them were a real pain to wade through as a whole. The Bluetooth codec should've supported AptX. The touch controls are intuitive, but need some response adjustments (especially in bluetooth mode). PS4 and other console capabilities are limited. Despite those nitpicks and issues, there is a lot of great things abut the SXFI Air that need mention. Especially the fact that the SXFI Air is anything BUT a run of the mill headphone.

The Creative SXFI Air has some seriously appealing and specific features that make it far more than the sum of its least favorable traits. The Air has a toolbox of versatility. You can use it practically in any and every way imaginable for a headphone. PC use, wirelessly, turned off, or even as a music player and headphone packed in one. You name it, the Air is likely able to find its use in anyone's home or office. Want to alter its sound, use the various equalizers at its disposal. Want to chat? The miniature mic is not only effective, it's unobtrusive unlike other headsets that may jam the mic next to your face, seen through your peripheral vision. Need to feel like you're not listening to headphone, but rather a well designed home theater? SXFI immediately changes the soundscape into something big and exciting. All of this while being comfortable to wear, as well as affordable, considering all it has, and all it can do.

The Creative SXFI Air may have entered my sights for truly basic reasons, but I leave this review with an enormous amount of respect for Creative and what they managed to do with not only offering such a resourceful headphone, but bringing SXFI to the world, even when they already had the fantastic SBX processing prior to SXFI. I can only imagine what Creative has in store for the future.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 18, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> @MadLustEnvy hey i am just curious what is your go to setup which you personally use when your not reviewing and testing
> 
> thanks



Koss KSC75 or Koss PortaPro/SportaPro drivers with KSC75 clips attached to my Mixamp 5.8. That's it.

If I feel like having a better experience, I'll bring out my (the still at home) Massdrop Edition XX hooked up via  this chain: Creative G6 (for SBX) - Optical out - Modi 3 - Magni 3 - Headphones.

At work or on the go I have a Koss PortaPro wireless (attached to KSC75 clips) which gets the most use out of any headphone I own.

The Audeze Mobius and HE-400 are stored under my bed.


----------



## silverthornne

No aptX support on the SXFi Air? At this stage in the game I'd expect something even better than aptX, such as aptx HD or LDAC. I am surprised since I own the Creative Outlier Air True Wireless and those tiny buds support aptX, which made me expect more from the SXFi Air. Would a setup that goes X7 > AXFi Air make sense? I own the SXFi dongle and really like it, but I find it a pain to be switching headphone profiles on it so I thought these would be a good option to keep that SXFi fun sound.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 18, 2019)

silverthornne said:


> No aptX support on the SXFi Air? At this stage in the game I'd expect something even better than aptX, such as aptx HD or LDAC. I am surprised since I own the Creative Outlier Air True Wireless and those tiny buds support aptX, which made me expect more from the SXFi Air. Would a setup that goes X7 > AXFi Air make sense? I own the SXFi dongle and really like it, but I find it a pain to be switching headphone profiles on it so I thought these would be a good option to keep that SXFi fun sound.



Nah, the Air is self contained, so it doesn't make sense to use with the X7. SXFI needs the USB PC signal for proper 7.1 SXFI. If you you use X7 you'd either be getting the expanded stereo form of SXFI, or worse, double processing with SBX and SXFI.

Rather, you CAN use the X7 with the Air through the aux input, which is a solid method of using the Air, as long as it's powered off when doing that. You could use it as a regular headphone in that case, though then that sort of makes it a weird choice for that. May as well get a better headphone if you're not gonna use the Air's features.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ----------
> 
> *Creative SXFI Air*
> 
> ...




Great review! I do have a question though, and I apologize if I skipped over it by mistake. I see all of the different apps for phones and PC that are needed to get the full experience with the Air, but if I don’t have an Android phone, only iOS and Windows devices can I actually do the head mapping or is that still limited to the Android app like the Super X-Fi amp? I’m really tempted to pull the trigger on these as I just got a laptop with a HDR OLED panel and these would be the perfect headphones to pair with that mobile setup.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got the Shakes said:


> Great review! I do have a question though, and I apologize if I skipped over it by mistake. I see all of the different apps for phones and PC that are needed to get the full experience with the Air, but if I don’t have an Android phone, only iOS and Windows devices can I actually do the head mapping or is that still limited to the Android app like the Super X-Fi amp? I’m really tempted to pull the trigger on these as I just got a laptop with a HDR OLED panel and these would be the perfect headphones to pair with that mobile setup.


I'm sorry, I don't have an IOS device, but I'm certain Creative has an equivalent app for you there. I probably should've mentioned that.


----------



## Got the Shakes

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm sorry, I don't have an IOS device, but I'm certain Creative has an equivalent app for you there. I probably should've mentioned that.



They didn’t used to, but I just looked and it appears that they launched one in February on iOS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, just checked the product page, it says Apple Store SXFI app is supported.


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## illram (Jun 19, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Can someone download the SFXI app to their mobile device and tell me if you are able to calibrate your head mapping as well as use Super X-fi through that music player?



Just saw this. Yes, you can headmap without the device. But as you point out you're limited to their music player for playing media. Also for whatever reason there was terrible static when I tried playing without the device (the terrible stock song that comes with it, ugh) that I couldn't replicate anywhere outside the app.



Got the Shakes said:


> Great review! I do have a question though, and I apologize if I skipped over it by mistake. I see all of the different apps for phones and PC that are needed to get the full experience with the Air, but if I don’t have an Android phone, only iOS and Windows devices can I actually do the head mapping or is that still limited to the Android app like the Super X-Fi amp? I’m really tempted to pull the trigger on these as I just got a laptop with a HDR OLED panel and these would be the perfect headphones to pair with that mobile setup.



There is an iOS app, I just tried it with my iPad (only iOS device I have) and you can headmap on it. Hopefully you have an iPhone and not an iPad though as the app uses the iPhone screen size on the tablet.....tsk tsk Creative.

--------

Also in playing around with my Android audio settings just now checking all this I noticed a Dolby Atmos setting has creeped into my Android settings since the last update. What? That's huge. I have been waiting for that for a while, I guess I live under a rock because I just figured this out...


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## halcyon (Jun 19, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Creative SXFI Air*



Thank you for the detailed and excellent review, as always!

A couple of questions:

- Is the 24b/96kHz mode available when the headphone is detected as a 7.1 input sound device? Or do you have to switch between 16bit/48kHz for 7.1 and 24bit/96kHz for stereo, like in Sennheiser GSX?
- Can't find the Synthetic Premium Earpads anywhere for sale on Creative (Europe) site: do you have a part number or a direct sales link to the product?
- You talk very little directly about positional accuracy, other than it being best of class. Can you elaborate a bit? How is the front-to-back localization? How is the accuracy/pinpointing of sounds coming from the backwards facing 180° cone? Is it better than the rest in these regards? I assume there is no improvement in up/down directional cues with 7.1 input signals?

I was reasonably content with X7 AND/OR GSX 1200 + THX00 for gaming, but now I'm torn whether I should give SXFI Air C + Premium pleather earpads combo a try.


----------



## halcyon

silverthornne said:


> No aptX support on the SXFi Air?



This is slightly off-topic and I agree no support for AptX is a bit weird (it is probably due to price reasons, as this requires a separate Qualcomm license), but you might be interested in reading the following write up on BT audio codecs, their performance and pricing:

*Audio over Bluetooth: most detailed information about profiles, codecs, and devices*
https://habr.com/en/post/456182/



> TL;DR:
> 
> 
> SBC codec is OK
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halcyon said:


> Thank you for the detailed and excellent review, as always!
> 
> A couple of questions:
> 
> ...



1. You can set it to 24/96 and forget it. I assume it goes down to 16/44 for 7.1.
2. I asked them directly abhout the pads, he still hasn't gotten back to me. I was wondering where the link for the item was. Couldn't find it.
3. I talk very little of them because it's hard to describe how one dsp sounds more realistic than the next, when they both have good front/back. All I can say is that SXFI sounds the most convincing in throwing out audio cues in a horizontal circle to my ears. But if you can discern front to back with iother dsps, this isn't going to make those obsolete. I just think it sounds more natural? Don't know if that's how I would describe it.


----------



## Vader2k

I just noticed that the SXFI amp and G6 are both on sale on Creative's site.  Not sure how long ago this started, but definitely worth a look if you've been considering either:

*CREATIVE SXFI AMP - 7% OFF - $139.99* (Reg. $149.99)

*SOUND BLASTERX G6 - 19% OFF - $129.99* (Reg. 159.99)


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Koss KSC75 or Koss PortaPro/SportaPro drivers with KSC75 clips attached to my Mixamp 5.8. That's it.
> 
> If I feel like having a better experience, I'll bring out my (the still at home) Massdrop Edition XX hooked up via  this chain: Creative G6 (for SBX) - Optical out - Modi 3 - Magni 3 - Headphones.
> 
> ...



thanks for sharing your setup. I am assuming you game on the PS4? How are you liking  Bloodstained?

thanks again


----------



## Zachik

@Mad Lust Envy - very nice review for the Creative SXFI Air.
Did you test the 5.1 or 7.1 for movie watching?  Specifically on a PC streamed from Netflix / Hulu / Amazon Video?
Also, would the Creative Amp turn any headphones to 5.1  / 7.1 (from PC source)?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 19, 2019)

Zachik said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - very nice review for the Creative SXFI Air.
> Did you test the 5.1 or 7.1 for movie watching?  Specifically on a PC streamed from Netflix / Hulu / Amazon Video?
> Also, would the Creative Amp turn any headphones to 5.1  / 7.1 (from PC source)?



Sorry, I don't have the Creative SXFI amp, so I'm unsure at how SXFI works with that in comparison to the Air. Unless it has PC drivers and attached through usb, I wouldn't think it can do 5.1/7.1 conversions.

And no, I awake about to test streaming services. Tbh I don't think I've yet to grasp how to get proper multi channel audio through my streaming devices or video players. I don't have netflix or hulu. Just Prime Video.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sorry, I don't have the Creative SXFI amp, so I'm unsure at how SXFI works with that in comparison to the Air. Unless it has PC drivers and attached through usb, I wouldn't think it can do 5.1/7.1 conversions.


Did you test the headphones for movie watching?  obviously interested in 5.1 and 7.1 when streaming on PC from Netflix/Hulu/Amazon...


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 19, 2019)

I tried, but like every other virtual surround dsp, I can't get surround information properly through my video player software or streaming devices. I don't know how to set it up. Even when Prime says 5.1 or whatever, it seems like it's only taking stereo information.

Also my biggest complaint with movies is that they lack rear audio channels for almost everything but slight ambience. It's rare for me to hear a movie where you get a consistent amount of rear audio. I only ever get that when I play blu-rays and dvds through ps4 on stuff like the Mixamp.

With games, it's easy to test as most games are easily to manipulate and get surround cues.

Mind you, it might be easy with Hulu or Netflix, but I never use those programs.


----------



## illram

Zachik said:


> Did you test the headphones for movie watching?  obviously interested in 5.1 and 7.1 when streaming on PC from Netflix/Hulu/Amazon...



The SXFI amp will create virtual surround from any 5.1 or 7.1 PCM source and appear to Windows as a 7.1 speaker configuration. So Netflix on the Windows app (NOT on a browser) will work but, like MLE said, it's hard to really tell the difference as most movies/shows don't use rear channels to a great degree. I tried it out with Altered Carbon and preferred Atmos to SXFI. Personally for media watching I use Atmos as it does not adulterate the overall audio the way SXFI does. For games though SXFI is very accurate and that wins out for me.


----------



## Zachik

illram said:


> I tried it out with Altered Carbon and preferred Atmos to SXFI.


Atmos as in real 7.1 or 9.1 speakers? Or is there another similar type product called Atmos??


----------



## illram

Zachik said:


> Atmos as in real 7.1 or 9.1 speakers? Or is there another similar type product called Atmos??



Sorry, I meant Atmos for Headphones (available in Windows).


----------



## Zachik

illram said:


> Sorry, I meant Atmos for Headphones (available in Windows).


Will look for it... Thanks!


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sorry, I don't have the Creative SXFI amp, so I'm unsure at how SXFI works with that in comparison to the Air. Unless it has PC drivers and attached through usb, I wouldn't think it can do 5.1/7.1 conversions.



To clarify to others: Creative SXFI Amp can take in 5.1 / 7.1 sound via it's USB-C interface and is seen by Windows (v.1703 or later) as a multi-channel sound card and it will decode this as multi-channel into the HRTF mix.

AFAIK, when connected via it's USB-C connector to PS4 or Xbox, it only receives a stereo (not multi-channel signal), so it's not a true 5.1->Stereo HRTF Virtual Sound Solution for those platforms.

A quite thorough review of SXFI *amp* (not the SXFI Air headset) in it's current incarnation is at 4game.net [JAP, use google translate]:

https://www.4gamer.net/games/004/G000421/20190312095/

There is still too much reverb and it's current incarnation SXFI Amp is not highly recommended, the PC/Windows software and reverb tuning still need more work, esp. for headphone models that are not directly supoprted from within the SXFI Connect app.


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## halcyon (Jun 20, 2019)

halcyon said:


> *Has anybody measured in-game sound latency with various drivers, virtualizers and sound-cards?*



Found it! Japanese 4Gamer.net does sound card latency measurements on Windows platform using a unified methodology. This will give you an idea of a rough latency in best case (no additional DPI latency from over crowded USB/chipset).

Here's a short summary of some tested cards:




```
Razer Seirē Elite MIC         -23 ms (DirectSound vs Fireface UCX)
ROG Strix Fusion 500          -18 ms (DirectSound vs Fireface UCX)
BenQ Zowie Vital              -13 ms (WASAPI vs Fireface UCX)
BenQ Zowie Vital               -1 ms (DirectSound vs Fireface UCX)

RME Fireface UCX                0 ms (baseline, not absolute measurement)
Creative Sound Blaster ZxR      0 ms (baseline 2, not absolute measurement)

Logitech G433 7.1 (wired)       2 ms (WASAPI vs Fireface UCX)
SteelSeries Arctis Pro/GameDAC  4 ms (DirectSound vs ZxR)
Logitech G433 7.1 (wired)       7 ms (DirectSound vs Fireface UCX
Sennheiser GSX 1000             2 ms (WASAPI vs Fireface UCX)
Sennheiser GSX 1000            11 ms (DirectSound vs Fireface UCX)
Creative Sound Blaster K3+     13 ms (DirectSound) vs. Fireface UCX
Astro MixAmp Pro TR            16 ms (WASAPI vs. ZxR)
Audeze Mobius                  18 ms (DirectSound vs. ZxR)
Creative Sound BlasterX G6     48 ms (DirectSound vs. ZxR)
Creative SXFI Amp              55 ms (DirectSound vs. ZxR)
SteelSeries Arctis 7           99 ms (DirectSound vs. Fireface UCX)
```

Yes, it is not much and there are two baseline cards which makes it more confusing.

However, what is apparent from the results they've done so far is:

 - Directsound has more latency (on the average) than WASAPI (fairly obvious)
 - *USB cards do NOT always have more latency *than PCIe cards (EDITED)
 - enabling 3D sound virtualization (SXFI, Dolby Atmos, etc) on the sound card increases the latency
 -* extra sound card latenc*y can be anything from *0 to 6 frames* (on a 60Hz screen) (EDITED)
 - this latency is ON TOP of what is already the sound processing latency in the game + in windows inherently (which is usually in dozens OR up to hundreds of milliseconds)

In summary: there is still WAY TOO MUCH latency in Audio on Windows for FPS gaming with 120+ Hz screens and on-time audio cues. I hope the industry and reviewers will pay more attention to this in the future. This is one area of performance, where newer technology is actually often times quite a lot slower (longer latencies) than older technology.

EDIT: Added more cards/headsets from the 4gamer.net testing.


----------



## mindbomb

They did find the gsx 1000 to be low latency.

i don't think virtual surround sound affects the latency in any significant way. Equalizerapo reports the latency for hesuvi, and it is less than 1ms for that.


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## halcyon (Jun 20, 2019)

mindbomb said:


> They did find the gsx 1000 to be low latency.
> 
> i don't think virtual surround sound affects the latency in any significant way. Equalizerapo reports the latency for hesuvi, and it is less than 1ms for that.



Thanks for the tip on GSX1000. I found other cards by google search from their site (can't really navigate their own site in Japanese that well).

The EQ APO calculation is for internal processing latency for selected convolutions, not the whole latency (of Windows / drivers / Equalizer APO / HeSuVi). One cannot measure the accuracy of a meter with the meter itself. You need external (calibrated tools).


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The wait shouldn't be too long for the Creative Air and SXFI review.
> 
> Let's just say that may very well be my biggest review. It's freaking huge.
> 
> Still working out some writing kinks. PLEASE HAVE PATIENCE, MY GOOD PEOPLE. It's coming.



Wow your review of the SXFi headphones is amazing. Sounds like I want these? Or should I be waiting for the AE-9?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know about the AE-9, but the Air is really freaking good for the price. It's like a mini Audeze Mobius in terms of features. Not 1:1 and Mobius definitely sounds better, but it's more than double the price.

I just wish it had an optical input for dolby digital decoding on consoles to SXFI, but then that would be weird on a headset. LOL imagine having an optical cable tethered to you. It's never been done, I don't think.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 20, 2019)

I think the next step for headsets like this is for them to come with a box that attaches to consoles via optical/hdmi that sends a signal to the headset wirelessly via aptX low latency.

So an SXFI box that turns 5.1/7.1 to virtual surround like SXFI and send that processed signal to the headset.

I mean we already had the Mixamp 5.8 which did something similar and worked incredibly well. It just didn't seem to catch on back then. I think Astro gave up too quickly.a high end version of that nowadays with a cleaner dac/amplifier would be amazing. Though the Mixamp still needed a regular headphone, not a wireless one.


----------



## motorwayne

As I would be using them for gaming only on PC, would you suggest the Creative SXFI AIR C as the choice?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 21, 2019)

motorwayne said:


> As I would be using them for gaming only on PC, would you suggest the Creative SXFI AIR C as the choice?


But why,  when you have an MMX300 and a decent soundcard?

If you didn't have anything, then yes. I definitely recommend the Air.

I know next to nothing about the Air C. It may or may not sound like the Air. Personally for the $20 difference, I'd get the Air. Even if you didn't use the Bluetooth, it packs more stuff than the Air C.


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> But why,  when you have an MMX300 and a decent soundcard?
> 
> If you didn't have anything, then yes. I definitely recommend the Air.
> 
> I know next to nothing about the Air C. It may or may not sound like the Air. Personally for the $20 difference, I'd get the Air. Even if you didn't use the Bluetooth, it packs more stuff than the Air C.



The answer to your question "Why" is, I'm always interested in a more immersive experience, one of my hobbies is PC gaming and in particular outdoor FPS games, so immersion and that being there audiovisual experience is always the holy grail in my favorite genre, so I keep a keen ear to what's happening and try to add small improvements along the way.


----------



## wmf

Question.
I have a desktop PC, with a soundcard. its an ASUS DG PCI ..
I also run a benchmark DAC USB unit coupled to a Violectric V200 amp.
So would i be best to run toslink from the benchmark to the optical in on the soundcard .... (so this would bypass all soundcard DAC right ? )
or just run the usb cable from the benchmark to the usb of the PC. 

ive actually tried both, and it seems games, well BF V in particularly sound better via the toslink ..

no need to go via the internal PC soundcard at all ?

thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 22, 2019)

That would bypass your soundcard's dac yes. Thing is, your soundcard may not output surround or other features to the optical out, making it effectively something you won't need as your own dac already does stereo in the same manner.

I assume you want virtual surround? If not, just use your Benchmark dac through usb, though perhaps the Benchmark dac may do better through optical than usb which may be why it sounds better for you. Either way, the signal is digital and only processed by the DAC you own, not the soundcard.


----------



## PurpleAngel

wmf said:


> Question.
> I have a desktop PC, with a soundcard. its an ASUS DG PCI.
> I also run a benchmark DAC USB unit coupled to a Violectric V200 amp.
> So would i be best to run toslink from the benchmark to the optical in on the soundcard .... (so this would bypass all soundcard DAC right ? )
> ...


Correct, the Xonar DG's optical (digital) port bypasses the DG's DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) function.
You have the Benchmark DAC1 USB?
The Xonar DG has optical output, not optical input.
So we can assume you meant to say your connecting the DG optical output port to the DAC1's optical input port?
And running analog connection from the DAC1's  RCA or balanced output, to the RCA or balanced input on the Violectric V200?

I would have assumed the USB connection would sound best?

The Xonar DG can send processed Dolby Headphone (5.1) thru it's optical port.
A USB (PC to DAC) connection bupasses the sound card's features (like headphone surround sound), so you basically using stereo (2.0) audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PurpleAngel said:


> Correct, the Xonar DG's optical (digital) port bypasses the DG's DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) function.
> You have the Benchmark DAC1 USB?
> The Xonar DG has optical output, not optical input.
> So we can assume you meant to say your connecting the DG optical output port to the DAC1's optical input port?
> ...



So it's like the Xonar U3 that sends surround info through the optical out. That's cool. Asus was way ahead of the times.


----------



## wmf (Jun 22, 2019)

thanks for the replies.
yes i have the benchmark DAC1 USB.
sorry yes optical out on the soundcard,.. and just RCAs from benchmark to V200 amp.
ill  do some more listening and comparing, but initial findings were i found the toslink optical sounded better, that was just in PC games,
so ill try some music as well...and i guess running the toslink into the soundcard, allows other features to keep active,  such as virtual
surround etc.
so would i benefit at all in upgrading the soundcard to a newer creative soundcard like the AE5.  ?
i guess if it was purely just for music, id just go USB from benchmark to USB on the PC...


----------



## Drizz1e

A question for you Switch owners:

I am aware that the Switch doesn't support Dolby Headphone (I think Dolby Pro Logic II is supported?) and has no optical input. I use an HDMI audio extractor that allows me to connect the console to the mixamp via optical and the HDMI cable is connected to an HDMI switch with my PS3, 360 and PS4. What I don't know is if I'm actually getting surround or processed stereo. When I go to the audio settings and select "surround sound" the test tone only plays through the left and right speakers. When I select "automatic" it does play in all "speakers" but nothing sounds like it's coming from the rear. Is there a way to get actual virtual surround or am I stuck with processed stereo?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 22, 2019)

wmf said:


> thanks for the replies.
> yes i have the benchmark DAC1 USB.
> sorry yes optical out on the soundcard,.. and just RCAs from benchmark to V200 amp.
> ill  do some more listening and comparing, but initial findings were i found the toslink optical sounded better, that was just in PC games,
> ...


Other than a newer soundcard or something maybe sending a higher bitrate signal (32bit/384khz?) or something perhaps not capable by the soundcard you have, there is no improvement to be made, as everything you're sending to the Benchmark dac is digital. Unless you have a signal problem, which I doubt you're getting.

The improvements would come from a new headphone, dac, or amp, and the ones you have are pretty damn good as is, so I don't think you need to change anything. I'd recommend a headphone change long before any other. That's the real area of noticeable improvement.

The Switch only does 5.1 as LPCM, so you cant get surround from it other than receivers that can convert that to surround. No virtual surround dsps at the moment can turn pcm to proper surround.


----------



## Carwen

Just read the review of the Creative SXFI Air. They definitely sound what i'm looking for.

I'm looking for a pair of headphones for mostly immersive purposes (Playing Battlefield V, Doom, etc and Action movies).
Would you recommend the Air or another pair if within the same budget or slightly above?

Thanks for the very comprehensive list.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TheAir is a fine choice if you're mainly playing on PC. Just remember to get the full SXFI utilization, it's PC only. All others will emulate a stereo setup in front of you instead.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So it's like the Xonar U3 that sends surround info through the optical out. That's cool. Asus was way ahead of the times.


I think Asus has cut back on supporting Dolby Headphone in sound cards.
The last Asus Xonar DG software update was 2015 and listed Dolby Headphone, I know the DG now also offers Sonic Studio.
I'm not into FPS gaming, so I like to use a USB connection, between my Windows 10 PC my DX7s DAC and use Cyber-link PowerDVD 17 which has built in Headphone surround sound processing, for movies.


----------



## wmf (Jun 23, 2019)

_"Other than a newer soundcard or something maybe sending a higher bitrate signal (32bit/384khz?) or something perhaps not capable by the soundcard you have, there is no improvement to be made, as everything you're sending to the Benchmark dac is digital. Unless you have a signal problem, which I doubt you're getting.

The improvements would come from a new headphone, dac, or amp, and the ones you have are pretty damn good as is, so I don't think you need to change anything. I'd recommend a headphone change long before any other. That's the real area of noticeable improvement."
_
Actually the creative soundblaster AE-5 soundcard, does 32bit/384khz, so it might be pretty good ...
with virtual surround 7.1

Yes, it seems the DT 1990 Pros, are the next iteration of the DT990s which i have.  Might look at the DT 1990s down the track as an alternate pair, but not
if they are too similar to the DT990s  ?
If i were just into music, i wouldnt worry at all, obviously about the soundcard..   USB from benchmark DAC to USB on the PC.

so, when ive got the benchmark DACU USB plugged into the optical out on the soundcard.... in games, in general, i am hearing the work of the benchmark DAC
and nothing related to the DAC onboard the internal soundcard.. right?  i think it had been mentioned that it will bypass it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 23, 2019)

Yes. The DAC is only receiving 0s and 1s from the soundcard, so unless it's sending out errors, you are fine. I know nothing about the DT1990, sorry.


----------



## wmf

thanks and appreciated.
the soundcard infact is just acting as a transport for the benchmark DAC signal to whatever, such as the pc games. or music ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Everything. Though of course if you wanna use the usb of the Benchmark then switch audio device on the computer sound settings.


----------



## TONEDEPTH (Jun 24, 2019)

helo   my name is  panos  and i am  from greece    and   i am interesting to buy headphones for gaming and edm sound

Budget 400 - 600 EUROS MAX

Source/Amp SOUNDBLASTER AE-5

the headphones   will be used ( Primarily for gaming and listening to music)


Preferred music genre(s) which i like  is   trance-psytrance- house, techno, progressive house and etc)

What options i have in that budget ?? of 400 - 600 euros max

at this moment i am using hyper cloud ii and sentheizer game zero and i want to upgrade into something better

what  choices i have in the budget of  400 - 600 EUROS MAX


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 24, 2019)

TONEDEPTH said:


> helo   my name is  panos  and i am  from greece    and   i am interesting to buy headphones for gaming and edm sound
> 
> Budget 400 - 600 EUROS MAX
> 
> ...



I don't know if Drop (Massdrop) ships to EU, but Edition XX is DOPE for those needs.

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-edition-xx-headphones

If not, I apologize. I don't really know any in that price range that I'd recommend today asides from that.


----------



## TONEDEPTH

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't know if Drop (Massdrop) ships to EU, but Edition XX is DOPE for those needs.
> 
> https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-edition-xx-headphones
> 
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes...that's why I mentioned it.


----------



## TONEDEPTH

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes...that's why I mentioned it.




did you make any reviews for X HIFIMAN EDITION XX ?

what overall  score  you can  give them  for  gaming and edm music?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, all my reviews are on the first page.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...sxfi-air-added.534479/page-2819#post-14887842

I don't do scores anymore because people think scores should be compared to other reviews, and I stress it's how I feel about the headphone alone. The review will let you know how I feel about it.


----------



## wmf (Jun 25, 2019)

Went back to testing the USB from the Benchmark directly to USB into the PC... no soundcard connects at all.
Sounded pretty damn good...Detail was popping out. even in game music.  (BFV)
i might stick with the USB for now.

Headphones.... Beyer T90  or DT 1990s.   which would be better for FPS gaming ? similiar?
or too similar to the DT990s to warrant an upgrade?
thanks again


----------



## PurpleAngel

wmf said:


> Went back to testing the USB from the Benchmark directly to USB into the PC... no soundcard connects at all.
> Sounded pretty damn good...Detail was popping out. even in game music.  (BFV)
> i might stick with the USB for now.
> Headphones.... Beyer T90  or DT 1990s.   which would be better for FPS gaming ? similar?
> or too similar to the DT990s to warrant an upgrade? thanks again



My two cents, go for the DT1990, it's a newer design, then the T90.


----------



## wmf

thanks and appreciated.
newer  doesnt always mean better, but yes, ive heard great things about the DT 1990s.
definately  will consider.
ive  noticed when they come up for sale here, they  dont last  very long ..


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

Any love for V-Moda Crossfade 1/2?


----------



## CartmanTheCoon

Hi to all, after reading the review here on the Creative SXFI Air i felt really disappointed about the lack of compatibility with the PS4. I was intrigued by the technology and i was considering buying the Air C ones to use them mainly on PS4 but also on Switch. Can anyone tell me if there's any point in buying them for the PS4? Do you just completely lose the SXFI experience if you're not on PC?

There's only a few reviews around and no one mentions this; there's also no videos on youtube or anything and the headphones have been available to buy on Creative's website for a while now.


----------



## Cyanotic

CartmanTheCoon said:


> Hi to all, after reading the review here on the Creative SXFI Air i felt really disappointed about the lack of compatibility with the PS4. I was intrigued by the technology and i was considering buying the Air C ones to use them mainly on PS4 but also on Switch. Can anyone tell me if there's any point in buying them for the PS4? Do you just completely lose the SXFI experience if you're not on PC?
> 
> There's only a few reviews around and no one mentions this; there's also no videos on youtube or anything and the headphones have been available to buy on Creative's website for a while now.


I found this on their website:
This advanced feature lets you enjoy the full glory of up to 7.1 Cinematic games and movies in Super X-Fi on your PC and Mac!

More than that, the same USB functionality is available on the PS4 and Nintendo Switch.

That last line would make me think that you would still get the features. They probably work kind of like A50s since everything is built in. Have you tried contacting Creative for a more definitive answer?


----------



## Cyanotic

Does anyone use the HE4XXs for gaming? How do you like them?


----------



## CartmanTheCoon

Cyanotic said:


> I found this on their website:
> This advanced feature lets you enjoy the full glory of up to 7.1 Cinematic games and movies in Super X-Fi on your PC and Mac!
> 
> More than that, the same USB functionality is available on the PS4 and Nintendo Switch.
> ...



SXFI does work with PS4 and Switch but even Creative specifies that it only gives you stereo sound and not 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound like on PC. So, i have no idea what to expect having never tried SXFI headphones or the amp and without surround it might be kind of pointless.


----------



## Cyanotic

CartmanTheCoon said:


> SXFI does work with PS4 and Switch but even Creative specifies that it only gives you stereo sound and not 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound like on PC. So, i have no idea what to expect having never tried SXFI headphones or the amp and without surround it might be kind of pointless.


I've been looking for an answer now too. I've never seen these headphones until today, they look interesting.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

I honest miss the score not because I used to compare but to see what stands out on that specific Headphone! The Score kinda





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes, all my reviews are on the first page.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...sxfi-air-added.534479/page-2819#post-14887842
> 
> I don't do scores anymore because people think scores should be compared to other reviews, and I stress it's how I feel about the headphone alone. The review will let you know how I feel about it.


----------



## headphonesonly

Cyanotic said:


> Does anyone use the HE4XXs for gaming? How do you like them?


They’re good for gaming but they aren’t reliable headphones. I’ve had two both which the drivers would start rattling when the bass kicks in. Wouldn’t recommend those personally but you may have better luck than me.


----------



## headphonesonly

Cyanotic said:


> Does anyone use the HE4XXs for gaming? How do you like them?


They’re good for gaming but they aren’t reliable headphones. I’ve had two both which the drivers would start rattling when the bass kicks in. Wouldn’t recommend those personally but you may have better luck than me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 26, 2019)

BadBoyBrazil said:


> I honest miss the score not because I used to compare but to see what stands out on that specific Headphone! The Score kinda


I do believe scores have merit, but unfortunately 99% of the people that come here think it's a universal score where they like to compare with other headphones.

"Why does the KSC75 get a 7 for competitive, yet you speak highly about it, but an LCD2 get a 7 and you say there are better gaming headphones out there", etc.

It's things like this that make scoring more a chore and future problem than a benefit.

Every review should be looked at as a single entity. When I said 7 is good, I meant it's good. I don't believe the general stupidity nowadays where only 9s are good and everything else should be ignored.

That being said, I think we can agree when Isay something like a 7, it means it's good, but not without some caveats. If I decide to highlight the benefits or the detriments, it's to get a point across about the particular headphone. Like the LCD2 having a restrictive wall of sound that doesn't benefit gaming in stereo,  but is less problematic with virtual surround.

Anyways, scores are a thing of the past. People gloss over reviews and simply look at scores, which goes against the single entity aspect of my reviews.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 26, 2019)

Like seriously, if a $100 headphone had a 9 in competitive, and a $600 had a 7, you think the 9 is a better headphone, and should be chosen over the 7? THIS is why you do NOT compare headphones.

Even with the shortcomings that make, say an LCD2 a 7, I would still use that for gaming over an AD700. It's still gonna get the job done and have a much higher sound quality despite the flaws that steer focus away from brutally destroying competitive gaming.

I'm still using  rated 7 headphone for almost all my needs over some headphones that would score higher.


----------



## KungFuKenny

Hey guys, I recently purchased a Sennheiser HD58x for 100 euro had to pull the trigger, and they're quite amazing coming from Astro headset. That said, I can't help but wonder if they could sound a lot better plugged into g6 i just got Today rather them my mixamp TR since it can't power them all the way and i feel i'm not getting the best out of the HD58x true my Mixamp TR via ps4. Now that i have the g6 i'm trying to compare it to the mixamp TR am looking for a good settings/setup from the SBC app paired with my hd58x strictly for FPS Gaming like cod,fort,apex on the ps4.
Thanks in Advance.


----------



## DrKrFfXx (Jun 28, 2019)

KungFuKenny said:


> Hey guys, I recently purchased a Sennheiser HD58x for 100 euro had to pull the trigger, and they're quite amazing coming from Astro headset. That said, I can't help but wonder if they could sound a lot better plugged into g6 i just got Today rather them my mixamp TR since it can't power them all the way and i feel i'm not getting the best out of the HD58x true my Mixamp TR via ps4. Now that i have the g6 i'm trying to compare it to the mixamp TR am looking for a good settings/setup from the SBC app paired with my hd58x strictly for FPS Gaming like cod,fort,apex on the ps4.
> Thanks in Advance.



33 surround everything else off is what I used for the G6+58x combo.

They are very easy to power, I find it odd you say the Mixamp cannot power them. I even get them to decent to ear fatiguing volume with the almost underpowered GSX 1000.


----------



## KungFuKenny (Jul 2, 2019)

DrKrFfXx said:


> 33 surround everything else off is what I used for the G6+58x combo.
> 
> They are very easy to power, I find it odd you say the Mixamp cannot power them. I even get them to decent to ear fatiguing volume with the almost underpowered GSX 1000.


Thank you idk why i said that it cannot power them i mean it was enough but i really wanted to check between the 2 on which sounds the best on the ps4.
I have some questions you're probably tired of hearing its about connecting the PS4 via Optical

Under Audio Out Put Settings

Primary Output Port - Under Optical there are 3 Check Boxes option for me to choose: Dolby Digital 5.1ch, DTS 5.1ch & AAC. My Question is Do I select all of them? or Which one? If I select the wrong one will it Damage my G6 ? Because it says: Note that if the device does not support the selected format the Speakers might be damage.

and Under Audio Format (Priority) - Bitstream (Dolby), Liner PCM, & Bitstream(DTS) Which Do I select?

and in the SBC there is a option to set Dolby full, normal or Night & Configuration set to 5.1 or stereo?


----------



## T0XiiC

Hey, 

how are the Sennheiser HD 599 for soundwhoring?


----------



## Ozan.

Can i use Samson SR850 for Gaming?


----------



## halcyon

Ozan. said:


> Can i use Samson SR850 for Gaming?


Yes.


----------



## wmf (Jul 10, 2019)

has anyone used the Beyer DT1990s for gaming, ? recommended ? im sure they are pretty darn good... (love the Beyer sound)

The DT 990s are nice, no complaints there, just wondered if they are THAT much better?

thanks once again,

EDIT: while im here... ill pop this out there

Yes i have the DT990s, but i dont mind getting another pair of cans, for gaming.
Was  wondering if anyone had  experience  with the following,  Audeze LCD2, The Beyers,
T90,  T1  and the above DT 1990s.. in a gaming environment.   the T1s  being a semi  closed back, but still  would offer i would  imagine a pretty good soundstage, .


----------



## Ozan.

Can i use blasterx g1 for hd599?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting but not unexpected. Apparently the CEO of Creative mentioned X-series getting updated, with Super X-Fi tech.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cre...iew-impressions.756102/page-224#post-15054467


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Makes me wonder if they're officially replacing SBX for it. Personally I definitely prefer SXFI, but it needs to be said that SBX is the least processed sounding VSS out of the ones I've used, and some may find that preferable.


----------



## motorwayne

In terms of processed sounds feels, would you say that your experience with the SXFI was extremely processed vs the SBX or are they similar? Did you feel more "there" with the SXFI setup vs SBX? Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I believe I said it in the review of the Air. SXFI is like typical VSS in that it does have a reverb that will sound more processed than SBX. It's less processed than say Dolby Headphone, but it's not as discreet as SBX.

If you want amazing virtual surround, you're gonna have to accept the processed reverb that comes with it. SBX may sound the least processed, but makes it sound less ideal in surround emulation because of it.


----------



## Zaphyre

I'd hope they keep both in the device and allow people to choose since I think they offer different experiences. I have both a g6 and a SXFI amp, and I like them both for different reasons. SXFI is good for if you want something that is closer to a speaker experience where as SBX is nice if you want to increase the sound stage a bit and make cues easier to discern but without there being too much reverb.


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://uk.creative.com/upgrade/


----------



## Ozan.

Shouls i use blasterx g1 with hd599?


----------



## Evshrug

Ozan. said:


> Shouls i use blasterx g1 with hd599?


I would say you can, but the HD 599 can scale up higher and sound better with a higher-quality soundcard (like a Sennheiser GSX 1000, Creative G6, etc). The HD 599 is essentially a GAME ONE without the GAME’s microphone.


----------



## Evshrug

My other friends remain skeptical, but Smyth says they finally got Dolby certification and are ready to ship the Realizer A16!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ozan. said:


> Shouls i use blasterx g1 with hd599?





Evshrug said:


> I would say you can, but the HD 599 can scale up higher and sound better with a higher-quality soundcard (like a Sennheiser GSX 1000, Creative G6, etc). The HD 599 is essentially a GAME ONE without the GAME’s microphone.



I'd get a 58X from Massdrop, still better than the 599 and I found a very similar but a little better than the 660S too, Easy to drive as well.


----------



## mbyrnes

Evshrug said:


> My other friends remain skeptical, but Smyth says they finally got Dolby certification and are ready to ship the Realizer A16!



It's finally close to happening! I'm so excited to hopefully get mine sooner than later. It's been a very long wait!


----------



## Evshrug

AppleheadMay said:


> I'd get a 58X from Massdrop, still better than the 599 and I found a very similar but a little better than the 660S too, Easy to drive as well.



I agree the HD 58X Jubilee was made to be superior to the HD 599 (funny naming convention in this case, but that’s just because the HD 58X Jubilee harkens back to an old model that existed before the current HD 5-- series), but I would 100% be happy to trade you my HD 58X Jubilee for a real HD 660 S!


----------



## Ozan.

Evshrug said:


> I would say you can, but the HD 599 can scale up higher and sound better with a higher-quality soundcard (like a Sennheiser GSX 1000, Creative G6, etc). The HD 599 is essentially a GAME ONE without the GAME’s microphone.


I cant afford g6 or something. Also why 599 worse than 58x jubilee? People say 599 is better.


----------



## Got the Shakes

mbyrnes said:


> It's finally close to happening! I'm so excited to hopefully get mine sooner than later. It's been a very long wait!



You and I both. I just passed the two years since I preorder mark, and for as long as that wait has been I know people who got in on the Kickstarter have been waiting much longer than that.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Evshrug said:


> I agree the HD 58X Jubilee was made to be superior to the HD 599 (funny naming convention in this case, but that’s just because the HD 58X Jubilee harkens back to an old model that existed before the current HD 5-- series), but I would 100% be happy to trade you my HD 58X Jubilee for a real HD 660 S!



I had both and compared the relevant (read very similar) models side by side: 660S/58XJ, 650/6XX, 600/580P. 
In that line there are 4 marvels and two blunders: the 660S and 58X but the 58X sounded the better one to me.
Blunders because A) Sennheiser should have tried to improve on the 600 and 650 instead of making an easier to drive one and B) they just don't sound good enough to be part of the 580P/(580J)600/650(6XX) range, a range that is true high-end now matter how low their price seems in comparison to other high-end cans (some far from worth that title) these days.


----------



## Evshrug

Ozan. said:


> I cant afford g6 or something. Also why 599 worse than 58x jubilee? People say 599 is better.


If you already have the HD 599, then it is a good headphone (I have one as well). Flavor wise, it might appeal to some people’s preferences more because it sounds thicker and has more of a “consumer” tuned frequency response.

The HD 58X Jubilee is tuned to sound closer to neutral and balanced, which might be more dull for some people’s tastes. I personally find the realism of the HD 58X to sound better, but I respect that everyone’s opinion can be different. However, the HD 58X scientifically measures as the higher performing model.

I find both really comfortable for long gaming sessions!

AppleheadMay and I have different taste preferences between the HD 58X Jubilee and HD 660 S, which I totally accept that we can disagree on that and both have a good time, but objectively the HD 660 S performs better and I can hear that.

What you can afford is up to you, and how long you are willing to save up. Creative’s entry-level gear is ok, especially with the HD 599, but with better gear you will have a better sound and you won’t hold back as much potential that the headphone has. You can get the G1, but after you hear it you may wish for an upgrade before too long. Meanwhile, people continue to use Sennheiser headphones (and other brands) for decades once they find a “flavor” they like.


----------



## Ozan.

Evshrug said:


> If you already have the HD 599, then it is a good headphone (I have one as well). Flavor wise, it might appeal to some people’s preferences more because it sounds thicker and has more of a “consumer” tuned frequency response.
> 
> The HD 58X Jubilee is tuned to sound closer to neutral and balanced, which might be more dull for some people’s tastes. I personally find the realism of the HD 58X to sound better, but I respect that everyone’s opinion can be different. However, the HD 58X scientifically measures as the higher performing model.
> 
> ...


Thanks for help i havent bought it yet. Btw 58x doesnt on sale in here. If i buy it, I cant send it to RMA. Also is there any better option? I mean i can afford 990 pro also. Just want better for under 170 160 dollar. Also i want ergo. Sorry for my bad english. Just lookin for gaming and music and film headphones under 170 180 160 etc. Prices


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## Evshrug

Ozan. said:


> Thanks for help i havent bought it yet. Btw 58x doesnt on sale in here. If i buy it, I cant send it to RMA. Also is there any better option? I mean i can afford 990 pro also. Just want better for under 170 160 dollar. Also i want ergo. Sorry for my bad english. Just lookin for gaming and music and film headphones under 170 180 160 etc. Prices



The HD 58X Jubilee is a Drop.com exclusive, but they ship to most places where there aren’t legal issues preventing them.
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones

Also the Sennheiser PXC37X, which is basically an HD 599 (and GAME ONE like Mad Lust Envy reviewed in the first post of this thread) with a hair more treble emphasis and a really nice cardioid microphone: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset
The PC37X is only $120 (United States Dollar), but it’s perfectly suited for gaming and I use mine almost every day for gaming on my iPad, conference calls , and voiceovers for video recording.

Both of those Sennheisers and the Beyerdynamics are well regarded for their comfort! The beyerdynamics tend to have less emphasis on the midrange (vocals, most instruments) and more emphasis on the highest and lowest pitched notes (piccolo, kick drums). The “Pro” beyerdynamic headphones and HD 58X Jubilee tend to have a tighter “clamp” force, but I still find the HD 58X Jubilee to be comfortable for hours.


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## Evshrug

By the way, for anyone with a Massdrop (Drop) HiFiman Edition XX that wishes for a better headband... I just saw this in the deal’s thread for $10:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...the-first-post.692119/page-1899#post-15049530


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## Ozan.

For dt990 pro 250 ohm which external card should i buy for gaming?


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## wmf (Jul 15, 2019)

anyone use the audeze mobius for gaming?  any good?

specs look nice. i prefer the open backs for gaming, but always willing to check out good gaming cans.


----------



## TeeReQs

Check out MLE's review in this thread


----------



## debugman

I have two questions regarding the DSS connection suggested in this diagram:





1. If setting the output to DSS, won't the audio pass through the USB? So why it says to connect the optical cable?
2. Which 3.5mm cable I need to connect from the usb adapter to the AUX in, 3-pole or 4-pole?


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## Yethal

debugman said:


> I have two questions regarding the DSS connection suggested in this diagram:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Usb is used for chat audio only in this diagram, optical is used for game audio. Route 3 pole cable from adapter output to aux input on dss.


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## debugman

I guess I will just try it, but I am pretty sure that setting the output to DSS is wrong


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## Yethal

debugman said:


> I guess I will just try it, but I am pretty sure that setting the output to DSS is wrong


It's not if you set the headphone output to chat only


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## debugman

oh right


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## ronfifer (Jul 26, 2019)

Honestly I am so confused now. I'll keep it simple and hope experienced, audiophile, FPS gamers can help.

What are the two ultimate open-back headphones that meet the following:

1. Have best imaging, most accurate sense of direction spanning 360 degrees, and large enough soundstage in an online FPS game.
2. No mic is required
3. Does not significantly underperform in other areas such as bass, fun factor, and immersion (ex: AD700x)
4. Will NOT be used for anything other FPS online gaming.

Please name one below $300 and one above $300.

If a DAC/AMP is required please mention it as well. Please answer based on personal experience and knowledge because i will take your answer very seriously. I'm so tired of this long due indecisiveness.


----------



## Yethal

ronfifer said:


> Honestly I am so confused now. I'll keep it simple and hope experienced, audiophile, FPS gamers can help.
> 
> What are the two ultimate open-back headphones that meet the following:
> 
> ...


There is literally an entire guide on the first page dedicated to answering your questions, *** man.


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## Fegefeuer

There are are plenty of great reviews on the front page.

anyway, not too much above 300$:

Beyerdynamic T1 2nd Gen
Sennheiser HD800

Those two are very special in that regard and fulfill your 4 requirements to the fullest, however they need decent amping at the very least. I'd say Modi Multibit + Vali 2.


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## ronfifer (Jul 26, 2019)

Thank you. And anything comes to mind below $300? other than the AD700x because of its poor bass and fun factor.
The T1 is $1,050 in Canadian Dollars so that is not "not too much above $300" haha.


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## thewind32

ronfifer said:


> bass and fun factor.



Those 2 aspects don't generally go with headphones used for sound whoring.


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## ronfifer (Jul 26, 2019)

You took my words out of context. I did not say competitive AND bassy AND fun. i said competitive without significantly sacrificing bass and fun factor like the AD700x does.

Basically I am looking for the same legendary 360 degrees positioning capability of the AD700x but with improved bass and immersion, even if that means sacrificing a little bit of competitiveness. Would that be the AKG712Pro? or ATH-ADG1x? or Sen HD599? or...?

The HD 800 and Ber T1 2nd Gen recommended by Fegefeuer are $1k-$2k hence beyond my budget.


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## Clean6eR (Jul 26, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> You took my words out of context. I did not say competitive AND bassy AND fun. i said competitive without significantly sacrificing bass and fun factor like the ADG700x does.
> 
> Basically I am looking for the same legendary 360 degrees positioning capability of the ADG700x but with improved bass and immersion, even if that means sacrificing a little bit of competitiveness. Would that be the AKG712Pro? or ATH-ADG1x? or Sen HD599? or...?
> 
> The HD 800 and Ber T1 2nd Gen recommended by Fegefeuer are $1k-$2k hence beyond my budget.



philips shp 9500, philps x2hr, sennhiser pc360, sennhiser game one, sennhiser gsp 500, beyer dt 990


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## Fegefeuer

ronfifer said:


> The HD 800 and Ber T1 2nd Gen recommended by Fegefeuer are $1k-$2k hence beyond my budget.



T1 Black Edition, 4 years of warranty left, 2 cables https://www.head-fi.org/threads/beyerdynamic-t1-2nd-gen-black.911395/ 550 Dollar
HD 800 with pads from 11/2018 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fs-hd800.911374/ 725 Dollar


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## mindbomb (Jul 26, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> You took my words out of context. I did not say competitive AND bassy AND fun. i said competitive without significantly sacrificing bass and fun factor like the AD700x does.
> 
> Basically I am looking for the same legendary 360 degrees positioning capability of the AD700x but with improved bass and immersion, even if that means sacrificing a little bit of competitiveness. Would that be the AKG712Pro? or ATH-ADG1x? or Sen HD599? or...?
> 
> The HD 800 and Ber T1 2nd Gen recommended by Fegefeuer are $1k-$2k hence beyond my budget.



To be clear, there is no 360 degree positioning from stereo headphones. Good positioning is the result of the use of virtual surround sound (lets you hear more directions), a good audio engine (directions change appropriately with movement), and your own ability to adapt to new spatial cues. All a headphone has to do is to try not to get in the way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Today was a good day. After so many months of wondering where my Ultrasone HFI-15G went, I found it hidden behind a drawer. No idea how it fell behind it, but I would've never found it had I not had to to remove the drawers to move the dresser.

It's my favorite bed headphone, and it's def gonna get a lot of use with the Mixamp 5.8 at night. I've been using the KSC75 all this time in bed, but I don't like it when laying down because the cables are so frail and prone to snagging, which will yank them off the drivers. The 15g has a single cable that has a beefy strain relief so it can take punishment.

Anyways, yes, good day indeed.


----------



## wmf (Jul 29, 2019)

*1. Have best imaging, most accurate sense of direction spanning 360 degrees, and large enough soundstage in an online FPS game.
2. No mic is required
3. Does not significantly underperform in other areas such as bass, fun factor, and immersion (ex: AD700x)
4. Will NOT be used for anything other FPS online gaming.

Please name one below $300 and one above $300.
*
im quite happy with the DT990s, i can recommend those. soundstage is good, altho not as good as the others...  i dont use a mic, bass is definately there.  im thinking of getting another pair of beyers, maybe the DT 1990s.
im mostly in BF V, BF1, and on ocassion CoD WW2.  I was also considering the T90. might be a little bass light though, especially if one of the criterias are bass, fun factor. (but great detail )


----------



## DeadOfKnight

Thanks a lot for all of these reviews, but I can't help but be left wondering what the bottom line is.  For each of the price brackets, which would be your top picks for different use cases at this point in time?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 30, 2019)

There is no bottom line. Each review is based on the product by itself. If I were to put what I'd choose, no one would bother even reading the reviews and just go with what I choose with no other reason, despite my tastes being my own, and my tastes not being the best for every single aspect of gaming. I've had countless messages and questions asking whats the best headphone for every single thing, in which the answerr is there is no such thing. So no, I won't put my top picks. It also wouldn;'t make sense, as I don't have all these headphones on hand to truly single out what my faves are if I were to compare them directly.

My picks would all be skewed towards the most recent products because they are fresher on my mind. My tastes have also evolved to the point where something I would've hated back when I first started, I would love now, and vice versa. So really, each review should be taken with a grain of salt and be looked at with how I feel the bass, midrange, treble, soundstages are and not what I like or dislike. Outside of my preferences, you can more or less get a grasp for what type of a headphone each one is based on how I feel about these factors. I honestly would LOVE to delete my old mini reviews, because they were skewed more towards subjective than objective impressions. The older reviews are very rough for me to look at, personally, because of this, but people feel they should be left up if to at least have some form of base to go on.


Really, why would I single out something like an X2, when there are plenty of great alternatives like the K712, DT990, HD650, etc. All these are fun for similar and different reasons, so I don't find it logical to say, YES THIS IS THE ONE TO GET. So I'd say, look at these headphones, and find which one sounds the most appealing to you, based on availability, price, comfort, and what sonic traits appeals to you most.


If I had a billion dollars and did this for a living where I would be constantly reviewing new products and keep them around as reference points, then perhaps I could make lists on like 'Top picks of 2019' etc. But really, I don't have such an opportunity, and a lot of my reviews are for old products that have either been replaced or discontinued.

I have an Ultrasone HFI-15G. If I were to say it's my fave headphone for x reason, that wouldn't help anyone, as Ultrasone hasn't made this headphone in many years, and availabilty is very, very slim.

So yeah, there's too many reasons why I don't feel the need to make a 'top picks' type of entry for the guide.


----------



## DeadOfKnight

So you're saying I have to actually participate in the conversation and ask questions?  I can't just lurk around to find the answers I'm looking for?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 31, 2019)

Lurking around, I'm sure the same potential questions have been answered many, many times throughout the years by very capable dwellers of this forum who likely have good opinions on products that are likely more recent and more questionably appealing than the assortment of things I review for someone's particular tastes.

Like when someone asks me, what's the best headphone to buy nowadays in price bracket xxx, I seriously can't answer such a question, when I don't have a huge pool of recent products that I have experienced, etc.

Also, I put "Price as of Month/Year" because really, things change quickly. What may have been $150 to me months ago, may be $300, now, or no longer sold, or cheaper, etc.

I know the guide isn't perfect, and the volatility of the headphone market doesn't help matters. But it is what it is.

I think people looking into headphones should stop stressing about what's best, etc. There's SOOOO many headphones out there that it's impossible to find what the best is for any one thing. The great thing is that the market is so competitive, that the vast majority of headphones that aren't bottom barrel will almost always turn out to be good at worst, great on average. Even companies like Bose, Skullcandy, Beats, etc, all have products nowadays that are really fantastic. They have to be, because of how much competition is out there.

So look into headphones that YOU think look like something you want, and see if what people say about them sounds like they'd suit your needs. Chances are a good, fun sounding headphone will sound great for fun gaming, and a very detailed headphone with open soundstage will likely be great for competitive gaming, etc. There's not much else to make headphones truly stand out. You can extrapolate if a headphone will be good just by reading about these factors more often than not. There really is no such thing as the best of the best, at least unless you're going for the very high end, and even up there, there's so much competition, you're unlikely to single out one or two headphones objectively.

Sorry for the bad grammar and punctuation. It's late, and I'm writing out my thoughts directly.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 31, 2019)

You are on point. There's no best headphone, only (good) compromises and those can be very personal. Today we have a lot more choices than years ago, that's a big plus.
There are so many great headphones to choose from, no matter the price. Headphones can be so different in tonality yet stil objectively great for gaming. Like TH-900 and HD800.
I wouldn't wanna tell someone to choose one over the other. Maybe the TH-900 is too far from neutral for one but much more immersive for the other? You have to find out for yourself.

I would pick the PC37X and HD 59X over all the AKG K7XX and the X2 if I had to choose, I'm very likely in the minority there.  All 4 offer the most important traits for a good to great gaming can but I much prefer the tonality of the former two.

Best way is to go to a local dealer and get a loaner. Try a few candidates out for yourself, make your choice.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jul 31, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> You took my words out of context. I did not say competitive AND bassy AND fun. i said competitive without significantly sacrificing bass and fun factor like the AD700x does.
> 
> Basically I am looking for the same legendary 360 degrees positioning capability of the AD700x but with improved bass and immersion, even if that means sacrificing a little bit of competitiveness. Would that be the AKG712Pro? or ATH-ADG1x? or Sen HD599? or...?
> 
> The HD 800 and Ber T1 2nd Gen recommended by Fegefeuer are $1k-$2k hence beyond my budget.


You keep on going back to how much you want it to be like the AD700x just with more bass/immersion/fun, so your best bet is to start with the Ath-ADG1X which is basically the gaming rebrand of the step-up AD*9*00x but tweaked for a bit more bass and a built-in mic included.

If you don’t like that then move onto the AKG K712 or the K7XX. Obviously you would need a mod mic for both of those.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 31, 2019)

Here, I'll give an opinion. If you want something competitively strong like the AD700 without fully compromising the bass, the K610 Pro is FANTASTIC. You can arguably even say it might be tonally superior to the K712 Pro. It's a very linear sound with a lot of bass extension. Not that it's bassy, but the bass reaches low, instead of just rolling off into nothingness. I think it is competitively viable. Easily.

Are the K612 even sold today? These are the types of questions I have that keep me from constantly making such recommendations, because I'm going off impressions I made of them so many years ago.


----------



## DeadOfKnight (Jul 31, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So look into headphones that YOU think look like something you want, and see if what people say about them sounds like they'd suit your needs. Chances are a good, fun sounding headphone will sound great for fun gaming, and a very detailed headphone with open soundstage will likely be great for competitive gaming, etc. There's not much else to make headphones truly stand out. You can extrapolate if a headphone will be good just by reading about these factors more often than not. There really is no such thing as the best of the best, at least unless you're going for the very high end, and even up there, there's so much competition, you're unlikely to single out one or two headphones objectively.


OK, I'll just try to be as detailed as I can on what I'm looking for.  Right now, I want a new set of headphones to use with my PC instead of my Ultrasone HFI-700s.  I use my PC for everything: gaming, movies, and music.  I have a Creative X-Fi Titanium HD sound card that supports up to 330 Ohms load.  I switch between the different modes depending on what I'm listening to, and I appreciate having the ability to hear every detail, including EAX effects in older games.  I really like these headphones for the sound quality, but they're not comfortable for long sessions.  I have attached an Antlion Modmic, but I find it to be a really annoying with long cables that get in the way.  I got small children that like to get into my stuff the moment I walk away from my desk.  This means coming back to find everything disassembled on my headset.  Anyway, when I'm not using my headphones, I have a pair of Klipsch R-15PM studio monitors positioned at 45-degree angles from where I sit, about 2.5 feet away, and an R-10SW subwoofer under my desk.  I think they sound great with the exception of a harsher sibilance than I would like. However, they do sound a lot better at higher volumes than I'm able to actually use when my wife is home.  The other microphone I use is just the one built into my Logitech C920 webcam.

Anyway, that's where I'm at.  As far as what I'm looking for, here's my list of needs:

Gaming - It's all about immersion.  Directional accuracy or the ability pick out small cues comes secondary to actually feeling like I'm there.  Not that this isn't an advantage I would like to have, but if I'm being honest, I'm not that great at competitive FPS games anyway.  Knowing where those footsteps are coming from and having twitch reactions to them isn't going to happen.  It's a bonus if I can try to do that, but it's not a need.  I don't spend much time in games like Counter-Strike, but I do play a lot of immersive single player games.  I have a nice 1440p ultrawide monitor to get that visually, and I want to give my ears the same treatment.  The multiplayer games I play are mostly co-op, and I would like a boom mic for better noise cancellation.  I was almost sold on Beyerdynamic MMX 300s.  I know they're overpriced, but I don't really care if it's exactly what I want.  However, I've also been interested in streaming and content creation.  This means having to get a dynamic microphone to cancel out all the noise of my crazy kids.  If I do that, then once again I wouldn't need a headset because there's really no need for a boom mic if I have something better.  So that brings me back to just wanting a comfortable set of closed-backed headphones for isolation, with a great sound stage for immersion.

Music - I have a large collection ripped FLAC files, and I listen to every genre, especially hard rock and heavy metal.  I don't know if I'm a "bass head".  I enjoy deep heavy bass, but I don't like it to drown out everything else.  I just want to really feel it, you know?  So yes, I am looking for a quality listening experience for music.  I like having good separation for all the instruments.  I don't know if my speakers are known for being sibilant or if I'm just particularly sensitive to it.  I'm not an audiophile in the sense that many in this community are, but I am willing to pay good money for the best "practical" experience that I can get.  I can justify spending up to $500 on a pair of cans that are objectively better.  I've been attracted mostly to flatter sounding headphones because I feel there's a smaller chance of being disappointed without getting to try them first.  However, I'm willing to compromise between great gaming and great listening performance.  The Audeze Mobius seems like a good immersive headset with a good reputation for listening to music as well, but the new Creative SXFI Amp sounds like a more flexible alternative that I can use with a variety of headphones.  I've tried neither of them, so I really have no way to compare them.  I don't know if the head tracking or SXFI is more immersive.

Comfort - I wear glasses 100% of the time, so soft foam pads without too much clamping force are a must.  Pleather pads that stick to my head and build up heat are not good for wearing for long periods of time.  However, I imagine that any leakyness this causes should be offset by a closed back design.  I prefer this anyway for more isolation and a perception of heavier bass.  After doing my homework, it seems like the Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pros are a good choice for what I'm looking for, with reportedly impressive open sound for a closed-back set of headphones.  I am also open to other options that I haven't looked at, but either these or MMX 300s, despite some reports of higher than average sibilance, do seem to be the best option for what I want at a decent price.  I know it comes in a few different variants and impedences.  It's a shame that the cable isn't detachable, because I would prefer a shorter cable or a coiled cable, but it seems like you get what you get at that impedence level, and Custom Games come with more sacrifices.

Anyway, that's where I'm standing right now.  I'm currently leaning towards the SXFI Amp and a pair of Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros.  I don't know which variant I should get, but it seems like the 80 Ohms are the most popular.  Still thinking about the Audeze Mobius.  I kind of think I'd like the Mobius more for all the features it has, but I just think there's a lot more risk of buyer's remorse.  With DT 770s and the SXFI Amp, I only need to be satisfied with half of my purchase to at least feel like I got a decent upgrade.  Any thoughts?


----------



## ronfifer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here, I'll give an opinion. If you want something competitively strong like the AD700 without fully compromising the bass, the K610 Pro is FANTASTIC. You can arguably even say it might be tonally superior to the K712 Pro. It's a very linear sound with a lot of bass extension. Not that it's bassy, but the bass reaches low, instead of just rolling off into nothingness. I think it is competitively viable. Easily.
> 
> Are the K612 even sold today? These are the types of questions I have that keep me from constantly making such recommendations, because I'm going off impressions I made of them so many years ago.



Thank you. And for this purpose (3D audio accuracy and depth in FPS games), which AMP/DAC would you recommend on top of your head with the K612 pro? I am playing on an MSI gaming laptop.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ronfifer said:


> Thank you. And for this purpose (3D audio accuracy and depth in FPS games), which AMP/DAC would you recommend on top of your head with the K612 pro? I am playing on an MSI gaming laptop.



Anything like a Creative G6 would be sufficient. You can always get a stronger amp, but I feel the G6 had enough to gain plenty out of the 612. If not, just attach an amp to it down the line.


----------



## ronfifer (Aug 1, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here, I'll give an opinion. If you want something competitively strong like the AD700 without fully compromising the bass, the K610 Pro is FANTASTIC. You can arguably even say it might be tonally superior to the K712 Pro. It's a very linear sound with a lot of bass extension. Not that it's bassy, but the bass reaches low, instead of just rolling off into nothingness. I think it is competitively viable. Easily.
> 
> Are the K612 even sold today? These are the types of questions I have that keep me from constantly making such recommendations, because I'm going off impressions I made of them so many years ago.



And finally, what would be your best equivalent candidate from Sennheiser or Drop Sennheiser HD XXX for this purpose (3D positional accuracy in FPS games)?

Edit: In your review of the GAME ONE, you make the statement that: "There is clear distance between positional cues in a 360 degree front to back circle. This means the GAME ONE is in the upper echelons of headphones/headsets tested for positional accuracy when gaming."

Does that put it on top of the K612, same, or lower? Is it the ultimate Senn HD you recommend for FPS 3D positional accuracy or is there even a better Senn HD for this purpose in your opinion? (lower than HD800)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm not going to respond to that because we're talking about two very strong competitive gaming headphones. Just pick one that you think sounds better suited for you, not which one has a micro percentage difference better or worse over the other. They're both solid headphones. Make a choice based on what you think suits you better, don't ask me to make one for you.


----------



## ronfifer

It's ok. No need to choose one over the other. A legit question is what would be an Senn HD equivalent to the AKG K712/612 in terms of 3D positional accuracy in FPS games? I will then decide by myself alone


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD700 but it has other issues I wouldn't wanna deal with. Worse Treble for instance and worse price/performance. 

AKG K612, K712 are very safe choices. If you wanna go higher you have to pay much more, and everything inbetween won't be a matter of life and death. As already stated. Differences are very very small. 
Cool down the nervosa, you are making good choices with those headphones.


----------



## ronfifer (Aug 1, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Cool down the nervosa, you are making good choices with those headphones.



To be honest and transparent about my thought process: I learned from an owner of the K712, who is also a credible member of this community, a competitive FPS gamer, and also owns the HD800s, that he was disappointed to notice that K712 introduces an offset to the soundstage at close range, making nearby sounds feel a bit further away. He recommended the HD58X over the K712 based on what he has tried (since i can't afford the HD800s). On the other hand, the K712 is the recommendation i get from every audiophile community but I am now hesitant.
So my shortlist narrows down to : K712, DT990 Pro, AD900x (or ADG1x), HD58X. Not many owners have a clear say on the 3D positional accuracy of the DT990 so i haven't eliminated it yet.


----------



## DeadOfKnight (Aug 1, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm not going to respond to that because we're talking about two very strong competitive gaming headphones. Just pick one that you think sounds better suited for you, not which one has a micro percentage difference better or worse over the other. They're both solid headphones. Make a choice based on what you think suits you better, don't ask me to make one for you.


It seems like you try to avoid making direct comparisons, but there's no way for you to honestly say that your impressions of anything are not relative.  They don't exist in a vacuum. Whether or not you write it in a review, you're naturally going to be comparing this vs that, even if your standards change over time and the favorites you are comparing them to change.  I understand if you say something like "I returned those a long time ago.  I just remember them sounding great but not feeling comfortable for my head.  I never got to compare them side-by-side with these".  However, taking a strong stance against making direct comparisons and avoiding talking about them in relation to others just seems silly to me.  Are you trying to avoid pointless arguments with the fanboys?  That would make sense.  However, people are only asking because you got a chance to try them.  Many can only afford one pair of nice headphones, and don't want to gamble with the company's return policy just to try them out.  If you've gotten bored of talking about them, have led people astray, or otherwise don't feel comfortable giving this kind of advice anymore that's fine.  However, you can't dismiss the value of what you've been doing for this community for many years when this thread is 2,844 pages long.  I was going to ask what you think of the Audeze Mobius vs the Creative SXFI Air, but if you don't think this kind of discussion is worth having, I guess I'll have to just ask someone else.  Someone who isn't as experienced using many headphones in many types of applications.


----------



## Fegefeuer

ronfifer said:


> To be honest and transparent about my thought process: I learned from an owner of the K712, who is also a credible member of this community, a competitive FPS gamer, and also owns the HD800s, that he was disappointed to notice that K712 introduces an offset to the soundstage at close range, making nearby sounds feel a bit further away. He recommended the HD58X over the K712 based on what he has tried (since i can't afford the HD800s). On the other hand, the K712 is the recommendation i get from every audiophile community but I am now hesitant.
> So my shortlist narrows down to : K712, DT990 Pro, AD900x (or ADG1x), HD58X. Not many owners have a clear say on the 3D positional accuracy of the DT990 so i haven't eliminated it yet.



Personally my preference is Beyer over AKG because down the road stuff like warranty and pads also comes into play.
A pair of K712 pads cost around 100€ in Germany. A pair of DT990 pads just cost 20€. That's a massive difference since the AKG pads are not 5 times as durable. I don't know how much you'd pay in CA, it's probably at least similar if not worse.

I prefer the stage the DT990 presents because the K712 is too oval for my taste and a bit too diffuse/focussed in the middle while the Beyer is more "rounded" but also less wide. Still big enough. Beyer does staging very well with most of their headphones. 
The Beyer however has the famous Beyer Zing and that can be annoying or even painful for some. K712 is definitely better balanced overall.

I wonder how the DT1990 fares. Probably very very good.


----------



## raband

ronfifer said:


> I will then decide by myself alone



Don't forget to take comfort into consideration too.

I find it far more important at the end of the day than a lot of the small variations in performance between different cans.

I've got a half dozen or more different sets of headphones - it's usually the more comfortable one's I find myself reaching for for extended game play.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Comfort is the single most important decision for me. If this ain't where I wanted, I don't care if it's the best headphone in the world.

I don't even use anything now other than the Koss clip ons or my recently found Ultrasone 15g. Considering I have considerably higher end headphones on hand that aren't uncomfortable, that says a lot. I'll take the sound quality loss every time, as long as comfort is even higher.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really wish Grado would let me test out a GS1000e and Grado White. I would seriously consider one as my high end, simply because Grado comfort with the big pads are easily the most comfortable of all full sized headphones I have ever felt. I wouldn't consider lesser Grados because they're not designed with the big pads in mind and really alters the sound.


----------



## SierraMadre

@Mad Lust Envy Have you tried the Steel Series Game Dac? AFAIK, it’s the only external dac/amp that offers a new generation VSS solution for both PC *and* PS4 / Xbox (DTS Virtual X v2) and a fully customizable in-line equaliser that is not dependent on PC or a mobile app, you can adjust as you please on the unit itself. I own all the major VSS solutions in some DAC/AMP or another (except Sennheiser’s GSX) and I am pretty impressed with it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nope, haven't had a chance to.


----------



## headphonesonly

SierraMadre said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Have you tried the Steel Series Game Dac? AFAIK, it’s the only external dac/amp that offers a new generation VSS solution for both PC *and* PS4 / Xbox (DTS Virtual X v2) and a fully customizable in-line equaliser that is not dependent on PC or a mobile app, you can adjust as you please on the unit itself. I own all the major VSS solutions in some DAC/AMP or another (except Sennheiser’s GSX) and I am pretty impressed with it.


The gamedac sucks. Super under powered and sounded hollow af.


----------



## SierraMadre (Aug 2, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> The gamedac sucks. Super under powered and sounded hollow af.


My experience has been different when fed easy to drive headphones. Works fine with my Fidelio X2 and my AKG K7XX is decent with it too but then again, I have sensitive ears and don’t require high volumes and I will admit that two of the presets do sound terrible. Haven’t used it in a while as gaming has taken a back seat but there are 3 presets iirc, and only one sounds decent, the others do sound hollow and excessivelh reverby.

Also, not sure when you last heard it but it’s had a few firmware updates since it released that purport to improve VSS audio quality. That may or may not be relevant to your experience but I know that if you had asked me around 12-18 months ago, my opinions of DTS Virtual X (and, as it happens, Dolby Atmos for headphone too) would be much less positive than they are now. Same with the SXFI Amp, when I first got it the audio quality in SXFI mode was awful. It took at least a couple of firmware updates before it was good enough for me to start using.


----------



## illram (Aug 2, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> My experience has been different when fed easy to drive headphones. Works fine with my Fidelio X2 and my AKG K7XX is decent with it too but then again, I have sensitive ears and don’t require high volumes and I will admit that two of the presets do sound terrible. Haven’t used it in a while as gaming has taken a back seat but there are 3 presets iirc, and only one sounds decent, the others do sound hollow and excessivelh reverby.
> 
> Also, not sure when you last heard it but it’s had a few firmware updates since it released that purport to improve VSS audio quality. That may or may not be relevant to your experience but I know that if you had asked me around 12-18 months ago, my opinions of DTS Virtual X (and, as it happens, Dolby Atmos for headphone too) would be much less positive than they are now. Same with the SXFI Amp, when I first got it the audio quality in SXFI mode was awful. It took at least a couple of firmware updates before it was good enough for me to start using.



I tried it 9 months ago, I'll have to dig it up and give it another shot. My impressions back then were not good.



illram said:


> As others also have done, I went for the recent GameDAC sale, and gave it a try tonight on the Xbox One with COD: Black Ops 4. Impressions can be summed up as: I am happy with the G6, and definitely X7, over it.
> 
> Very underpowered even at "High" gain. My 598's are not that hard to drive and I need to turn the unit up close to 100% to get it acceptably loud. Running it direct from the unit, there is hiss at high volumes.
> Tried my Koss ESP950 using its lineout into the Koss Energizer. Eliminated the hiss, but still needed to crank it to 100% volume as well.
> ...


----------



## wmf

_*I wonder how the DT1990 fares. Probably very very good.
*_
I hear they are very  good. most likely my next can purchase. was either those or the T90.


----------



## SierraMadre

illram said:


> I tried it 9 months ago, I'll have to dig it up and give it another shot. My impressions back then were not good.


My experience with it is limited to VSS gaming and movies on PC (multichannel PCM feed via USB) and PS4 (Dolby Digital 5.1 feed via optical). Didn’t bother with the stereo “high-res mode” as I have a more capable G6 for that.

I hate thin and excessively bright presentations but do not get that from the game dac given the right configuration of surround content modes. There are 3 surround mode presets (separate from the EQ presets) that appear to be tied to the software app on Windows, “studio”, “gaming” and “movie”..

 Studio surround mode is horrible and overly metallic and thin, somewhat like you described. “Gaming” was ok, “Movie” I found to be the best in general.

Audio quality is of course better on the G6, the USB-fed surround processing of which isn’t limited to DVD quality sampling rates and bit depth. However, for me, the hit to audio quality from engaging the DTS Virtual X v2 surround mode on the game dac was still plenty tolerable. It just muffled things slightly (which I’ll take any day over the more metallic reverb caused by some other solutions). The reason why I prefer it for most content to the G6 for PS4 however is because I have found it to be better at projecting the illusion of ‘out of my head’ depth for front and rear cues and thus found it more more immersive for movies and single player focussed content.


----------



## ronfifer

The HIFIMAN HE-400 reviewed in this guide, is it the 400i or the 400s or is it an older model? If it is an older model, can we expect better 3D positioning of sound cues for the 400i/400s models? (That is can we assume the score for competitive would be higher than 7.5?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 4, 2019)

Literay near the beginning of that review:
*
"Before I start, let me clarify something: This impression is of the HE-400 Rev. 2 using the Hifiman velour pads"*

Also not gonna discuss scores anymore.


----------



## ronfifer

so there are 3 models on the market? He-400 rev2 and HE-400i and HE-400s?


----------



## C-Bass

ronfifer said:


> so there are 3 models on the market? He-400 rev2 and HE-400i and HE-400s?



Yes that's correct and they all have their own sound signature.  The HE-400 is discontinued actually.


----------



## ronfifer

Thanks C-bass, quite a simple logical answer to a simple question. Cheers mate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 4, 2019)

Sorry, I've been up like 32 hours, so I might be a bit short fused.

Well, there's also the HE4XX which is I believe based off the 400i. I dunno however. I've only experienced the 400 and 4 in terms of the old style HFM planars. Both discontinued.

I still have my trusty 400, which is like my 3rd or 4th time buying them. I had to buy some cheap short ebay cable since the original one started disintegrating.

I'd sell the Edition XX before I'd sell the 400.


----------



## SierraMadre

@Mad Lust Envy I was wondering whether you are still using the Alcantara pads with your Mobius (think it may have been Shure) and, if not, what you are using now. I loved the Mobius but had to return it due to the pads (too hot and the foam was way too squishy in my pair, leading my ears to touch the drivers).


----------



## raband

I'm using (and happy with) the gel pads from Audeze on my Mobius


----------



## SierraMadre

raband said:


> I'm using (and happy with) the gel pads from Audeze on my Mobius


Thanks, I have heard they are great but even shallower in depth than the stock pads which were no good for me. It’s possible I had an unlucky pair, ears touching the drivers of headphones hasn’t happened to  me very often in my years of using various headphones, but I am still rather wary and if my original experience is indicative then that means the gel pads will almost certainly be too thin for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 5, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I was wondering whether you are still using the Alcantara pads with your Mobius (think it may have been Shure) and, if not, what you are using now. I loved the Mobius but had to return it due to the pads (too hot and the foam was way too squishy in my pair, leading my ears to touch the drivers).



I put the stock pads back on, though tbh, Pretty much all my headphones are stored away and don't get used. The only ones I use daily are my PortaPro wireless at work and Ultrasone HFI-15G at home.

I'm considering a pair of Grado GS1000e though inb the far future.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 5, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> And finally, what would be your best equivalent candidate from Sennheiser or Drop Sennheiser HD XXX for this purpose (3D positional accuracy in FPS games)?
> 
> Edit: In your review of the GAME ONE, you make the statement that: "There is clear distance between positional cues in a 360 degree front to back circle. This means the GAME ONE is in the upper echelons of headphones/headsets tested for positional accuracy when gaming."
> 
> Does that put it on top of the K612, same, or lower? Is it the ultimate Senn HD you recommend for FPS 3D positional accuracy or is there even a better Senn HD for this purpose in your opinion? (lower than HD800)



It wouldn’t be fair for me to comment on other headphone brands since I am sponsored (somewhat, it’s more like I am a consultant for hire and Sennheiser is one of my clients, in any case my old content from before when I had the Q701, K712 Pro, and DT 880 are still somewhere on head-fi, and I still have a K612 Pro), but I can at least describe what a Sennheiser Headphone is like, and compare within the line. Oh, and an interesting fact I learned about myself that may apply to others: my ear canals are a bit smaller than average (think the smallest or second smallest eartips for IEMs, can’t wear Audeze iSine IEMs), which means their resonant frequency actually amplifies some treble frequencies, so the highs are actually louder for me and it explains why I find some headphones more fatiguing than others.

First up, I think Mad Lust Envy did a great job describing an impression on the *Game One*. It’s basically the same headphone as Drop.com’s exclusive *PC37X*, so choose whichever makes sense for you. The PC37X I have sounds VERY similar to the HD 599 (which I also have), except the PC37X has a _hair_ more treble energy and it’s impression of soundstage distance rolls off a little slower (so it can seem deeper). Sennheiser tuned it with a v-shaped frequency response (as almost all musical enjoyment headphones are), but they used a fair amount of restraint and nothing overpowers or is under represented (feels balanced yet fun, yo!). Of all the headphones I have, I use this one the most to play PUBG Mobile with friends (hey, it’s great! Also I don’t have to be in a specific room!), make conference calls, and do voiceovers to add to videos. I’ve been using this since the tail end of Destiny 1’s lifecycle, meaning I also use it for playing on my PS4 (and getting my Starcraft II fix on my PC).

I find it super comfortable... Sennheiser isn’t really trying to make a headphone that you forget you are wearing because it has a clamp force I would describe as “snug,” however I do forget how long I’m wearing them and the need to readjust them because the comfort stays consistent for 3,4, or 5 hours. It doesn’t develop hotspots for me. I will literally wear them while working and then playing for like 8 hours in a row... I’m cheating a little though, because I’ve been using prototype Dekoni Choice Suede Pads for about a month now, the Suede cloth (in my experience) is just so buttery itch-free and the memory foam melts away any hotspots (the stock Sennheiser pads are good too, IMO the stock velour is tied with the best other brands of velour, and the regular foam inside has nice loft with no issues of ears touching drivers). There is a fat, thick pad (covered in velour!) on the headband, which agrees with my picky balding head 

The cardioid mic is great for quick, cheap video voiceovers because it maintains a constant distance from my mouth between takes, de-emphasizes sounds from other directions or greater distances, and IMO it sounds great with a good soundcard. I have two desktop mics... it’s just the Sennheiser one is convenient and consistent, and sometimes I just need to get STUFF done!

Ok, so where does the GameOne/PC37X stand against other Sennheiser headphones?

The *Game Zero* is the obvious direction for closed back gaming needs. As a closed headphone, it seals the wearer off from leaking his/her sound out to other people/microphones (Game One doesn’t pick up its own mic unless there is a cable/jack issue) and it blocks some of the outside sound out to aid in the gamer’s immersion. Also as a closed headphone, the sound is naturally more closed in as well, without as much soundstage seeming to stretch away from you. A bit more bass pressure too. Some people prefer the sound of closed headphones, some people simply need closed headphones. Mic is the same, pads are covered in pleather (different mount than the Game One unfortunately, you can totally replace the Sennheiser pads if they get worn out but it’s a somewhat complicated clip-ring-clip affair with a ring that separately attaches to the earcups then the pad), and it has extra hinges to fold up smaller and flat into a mini-briefcase looking included case.

EDIT: I just spent in total 2 hours writing a fun but informative comparison for you guys, but when I hit “post,” my login cookie expired, Head-Fi logged me out, and everything I wrote since my last edit was lost. I’ll try to recreate some of it, but... it will be shorter. Also, there will be a bazillion edits so I can add on without the text disappearing again.

How about the new *GSP Models*? Well... I haven’t been able to try them out yet, personally. But they have a slightly improved cardioid mic, adjustable clamp tension, hybrid pads with cloth where they make contact with skin on the GSP 600 and GSP 670 models. I’m also interested in the dual wireless modes of the GSP 670: it has Bluetooth 5 with support for some high-res codecs, but Bluetooth has inherent latency and two way comms (sound and mic) sound quality issues, so Sennheiser also includes a USB dongle that uses 2.4 GHz wireless (like a cordless home phone, if you remember those) and an in-house designed codec to sound really good, with chat, and no perceptible latency. The GSP 670 also includes Sennheiser’s Binaural Engine for surround processing, and a software suite  with a dial to adjust the wetness (reverb) of the surround, perform EQ, etc.

Native Soundstage size: many headphones < HD 650 < HD 598/HD 599/Game One < HD 700 < HD 800

The *HD 650* and similar variants that use the same enclosure have similarly intimate soundstage. It was tuned using diffuse field measurements, and the driver is capable of presenting a fair amount of detail including those that indicate this sound is further or closer, so it’s no slouch and it takes well to a DSP, but it just doesn’t quite sound as “out of the head” and speaker-like as some of the most “elite” soundstage headphones. What it does offer is like the audio equivalent of a smooth, refined scotch. Liquid, warm, with all kinds of subtle notes that draw you in if you pay attention, but presented in an unforced way. A bit less bass and treble than the Game One (it’s more neutral). I enjoy music and movies with this one. Read Mad’s impressions on the first page of this thread for more.

The *HD 700* was popular among many gamers that swear by it, but not as popular among music listeners. The driver is a trickle down of the tech developed for the HD 800, but it was designed to fulfill a checklist of community requests about the HD 800: lower price, smaller earcups, more bass, easier to drive, different cable connector, etc. The vocals are a bit recessed behind the treble, and you can hear and see in graphs that the contrast between lower treble and upper mids is fairly wide. That made for a particular flavor that was received with love or hate with specific music genres, but for gaming it highlighted a lot of tactical cues and soundstage details/harmonics, and it had good imaging and the soundstage was very wide. Comfort was fairly widely agreed upon, because of the light weight, cavernous earcups despite fairly thin padding, light clamp pressure evenly distributed (so not much padding is needed), and fully padded headband (I wish it had a gap at the peak like the HD 650 and 800 headbands). Now, if you have this recently-discontinued model, here’s a tip: Dekoni pads. I’m not saying that just because I measure gear for them, but you can hear and see in measurements that the mid and treble response is much closer together, lending the headphone a more even and less hollow/distant sound. Soundstage is still good, just more focused.

Ahhh, the *HD 800*. I’m not sure how much “I” can say that hasn’t been said before, this and the *HD 800 S* that followed created a storm on their release and still get fresh reviews all the time. They are certainly titans of soundstage, and this is due to the ring-radiator drivers which are low mass, tightly controlled by a powerful electromagnet, and mounted slightly ahead of he ear canal and angled so it directly faces the angle of the ear, suspended in a very open earcup (more like “ear frame” or “ear screen”). What some people refer to as “PRAT” or “Speed” but I call “agility” (since it’s more about how tightly controlled the driver can change its vibrations, not that it can make the tempo/BPM of your music faster), this headphone has in spades, avoiding masked details or one note bleeding over another. It has a very neutral signature, one that can seem bass light in comparison to speakers with wall-reinforcement or headphones with much more bass than mids, but it does extend its reach very low and the large driver (56mm) does have quite a bit of displacement for a headphone; when I first got my HD 800, I commented that I could feel the air pushing and pulling the hairs on the skin of my ears in time to the sound. It’s also got a lot to recommend it in the comfort department: a light clamping force, weight well-distributed between all points of physical contact (divot in the headband, like the HD 650, prevents the majority of the weight resting on that spot), and that weight is very low (330g, or 11.64 Oz) considering the size of the headphone due to choice of materials including a special low-resonance resin used in most of the earcup. I would rather have an HD 800 S because it has less masking and a touch more bass, but the HD 800 is still an incredible performer. Oh, and I prefer silver over black, but people tell me I’m weird 

Just this last Saturday, I finally got an *HD 660 S*. I had heard it at Sennheiser KG and several CanJams, and it plays a balancing act that I knew I would want to own. It takes a trickle-down of the HD 800 and HD 700 driver tech, uses the HD 650 enclosure, and then specifically retuned for a sound signature similar to the HD 6-- line. Sonically, I feel it slots right inbetween the HD 650 and HD 800: it has an agility halfway between the HD 650 and HD 800, but with more of the HD 650’s richer timbre and gentle treble. If someone said the HD 650 seemed to have a veil, the HD 660 S is the answer. Soundstage is about the same as the HD 650 except everything sounds a touch crisper. Ergonomics are the same as the HD 650 too (and same 260 g weight, 9.2 Oz).

For the record, since I started lurking on Head-Fi and posting in 2009, I was a “holy grail seeker,” a “one headphone at a time” kind of guy. That started to change about three years ago when I started picking up the pace with reviews, and headphones still tend to stick around these days even though I’m not reviewing. The wife says I can’t buy any more headphones... but we all know, I can


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug said:


> I’m cheating a little though, because I’ve been using prototype Dekoni Choice Suede Pads for about a month now




*COUGH* PM ME, NOW PLEASE *COUGH*


----------



## debugman (Aug 6, 2019)

Hi, I got the DSS but the analog is not working (don't hear party chat).

I follow the directions in this diagram: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I tried with dolby bypass on and didn't work either.

The 3.5mm cable I used work, I connect my headphones to my computer

I also tried connecting my phone but didn't hear anything either.

Is there something I'm doing wrong here or I got a damaged DSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If I had a DSS I'd help. I wouldn't be able to pinpoint your problem without it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wasn't DTS:X Ultra supposed to come to the Windows store for both Xbox and PC? At latest with the May Update? 

Dolby Atmos customization options are also missing. I want the center speaker not in my head but infront, as with SBX. That change will probably never happen but we'll see.


----------



## ronfifer (Aug 6, 2019)

Fegefeuer, do you know of good DSP alternative to Windows Sonic for the purpose of FPS Gaming on a Stereo Headphone?


----------



## Fegefeuer

I use Dolby Atmos for Atmos movies or games and The BlasterX G6's SBX generally for games on both PC and the PS4


----------



## ronfifer

Can your G6 power your HD800s adequately? Curious which Headphone do you use for FPS gaming? Thanks!


----------



## Fegefeuer

The G6 is just there to give me SBX over optical, via the USB of my PC or optical of the PS4, nothing else. I don't use D/A section or any analog parts at all. 

I switch between almost all of my headphones except the HD 650 and the "smaller" Hifimans.


----------



## ronfifer

Is there a way to try the Dolby Atoms for headphones for free on Windows? I heard there is a trial we can use but i dont know where to look o how to find it. When I choose Dolby Atmos as my headphone output from the sound properties, it opens up Microsoft store but the page never loads...


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 6, 2019)

You actually only get it from the store.

have you tried WSRESET from the run command to reset the store app?


----------



## ronfifer

I finally enabled Dolby Atmos and it made absolutely no difference in Battlefield 1. So the game should also support it in order to make use of it? I dont have any of the listed games on the app page, can you direct me to an online resource where I can listen to Dolby Atmos samples or movie scenes?

Tip for anyone who might be facing a problem with windows update not downloading or Microsoft Store not downloading: Try disabling IPV6 in your network adapter in control panel, took me a week of research.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 6, 2019)

That's generally how I feel about Atmos through Windows. Sometimes I feel like it's not even working. A far cry from even Dolby Headphone Room 1 which is far superior.

That's one thing I hate about PC, how things sometimes are just utterly broken.

HDR on PC is a trial and error type of deal. Some games you have to force HDR through Windows before launching a game so it gets picked up, and the game launches in HDR (i.e. Mass Effect Andromeda) . Other times you have to do this, but it'll be an option in game to turn HDR on/off (i.e. Forza Horizon 4). Other times the game knows the display is capable of HDR and has settings to turn it on or off, which is the best way to implement HDR and all games should do (like i.e. Destiny 2). And lastly, some games are supposedly HDR ready but break and crash as soon as you try it (i.e. Ni No Kuni II).

You don't get these types of problems on consoles. When you do, they get fixed very quickly.


----------



## illram

Atmos worked on Overwatch for me but it is an in game setting. I could actually discern verticality, it was cool. 

As presented on Windows in the sound options it is gimmicky as it only works with an Atmos feed, most of which is on movies only, where it is more difficult to really tell it is working. (Although someone mentioned they recently added 7.1 to it for non atmos content? Haven't tried it yet)


----------



## mindbomb

When you use the spatial sound options like dolby atmos for headphone, it tells you when it is on when you click the volume icon in the task bar.
https://i.imgur.com/3gtCZXH.png


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> When you use the spatial sound options like dolby atmos for headphone, it tells you when it is on when you click the volume icon in the task bar.
> https://i.imgur.com/3gtCZXH.png



Ooh, that's new.


----------



## Clean6eR

Overwatch
Battlefield 1 (PC)
Star Wars: Battlefront
Gears of War 4 (Xbox One X)
Crackdown 3  (Xbox One/Xbox One X)
Star Wars: Battlefront II 
Assassin’s Creed Origins (Xbox One X)
Final Fantasy XV (Xbox One X)
Rise Of The Tomb Raider (Xbox One X)
Super Lucky’s Tale (Xbox One X)
Mass Effect: Andromeda (PC)
Found it online for atmos games. Hope it helps! I expected/hoped for more.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Metro Exodus, Resident Evil 2 Remake


----------



## ronfifer

Clean6eR said:


> Overwatch
> Battlefield 1 (PC)
> Star Wars: Battlefront
> Gears of War 4 (Xbox One X)
> ...


But i tried it with Battlefield 1 and there was absolutely no difference! Airplanes where still zipping from left to right and everything was spanning left to right just like what you would expect from Windows Sonic. What am I missing? Audio Options are Headphones and Surround. Sound Properties: Dolby Atmos for Headphones.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 7, 2019)

Like with SBX always use speaker modes. I don't have BF1 but there should be a speaker/surround setting. Never use headphone modes with SBX, GSX and Co. Always treat those solutions ingame like speakers.

That's what they actually do, you know.Virtualize a 5.1/7.1 speaker environment.
Except in the case of Dolby Atmos in combination with games that offer real Atmos geodata.


----------



## Clean6eR

ronfifer said:


> But i tried it with Battlefield 1 and there was absolutely no difference! Airplanes where still zipping from left to right and everything was spanning left to right just like what you would expect from Windows Sonic. What am I missing? Audio Options are Headphones and Surround. Sound Properties: Dolby Atmos for Headphones.


Really sorry i only have overwatch off that small list. I was thinking maybe the other have an atmos option in the audio settings of the game like overwatch does. If that was the case then the windows setting only seems useful for films and 7.1 ddhp type stuff. That seems pointless.


----------



## ronfifer

Fegefeuer said:


> Like with SBX always use speaker modes. I don't have BF1 but there should be a speaker/surround setting. Never use headphone modes with SBX, GSX and Co. Always treat those solutions ingame like speakers.
> 
> That's what they actually do, you know.Virtualize a 5.1/7.1 speaker environment.
> Except in the case of Dolby Atmos in combination with games that offer real Atmos geodata.



i understand but the headphones option in game menue gave me the best separation and volume while still implementing the virtual surround feature by windows sonic. I tried all possible combinations.


----------



## Clean6eR (Aug 7, 2019)

Err one forum says bf1 only does atmos over hdmi to atmos recivers. Geeeze. So like fege says. Enable atmos and 7.1 virtual in windows and in game set 7.1 speakers and hope for the best? Alternative is straight stereo in windows and in game headphone mode. See which you prefere? Dont think windows atmos will touch or alter a stereo signal? So heaphone mode in game should sound the same with atmos on or off? Im afk so guessing,sorry 

Found this:
This is the official responsse from Dolby Atmos Support:

"On Nov 13, 2017, at 1:15 PM, DolbyAccessT2_support@dolby.com<dolbyaccesst2_support@dolby.com> wrote:

Thank yo for your quick response. Unless you have your PC hooked up to a receiver that supports Dolby Atmos and then you have Dolby Atmos positioned speakers. *The toggle to turn on Atmos is going to be greyed out*. What this means is that the BF1 implementation of Atmos is an in-game, early adopter technology that requires bit stream out and only supports Atmos home theater products like AVRs and sound bars. it doesn't engage the Atmos support built into the OS but rather bypasses it. SO, your only other choice would be to play it on Xbox.
Thank you for you patience!
The Dolby Support Team.
ref:_00D709YuG._5000g1oKQFr:ref"
Post edited by xxxCoOlBr33zExxx on November 2017


----------



## debugman

debugman said:


> Hi, I got the DSS but the analog is not working (don't hear party chat).
> 
> I follow the directions in this diagram:
> 
> ...



I found the DSS manual  and it says there that it can't play the digital and analog input at the same time.

I am not sure who created the above diagram, but if you see this please explain how you got this to work


----------



## ronfifer (Aug 7, 2019)

@Mad Lust Envy in your review of the mad dog, which is a modification of the Fostex T50RP, you understandabley did not have have high expectations for its imaging in competitive FPS gaming and gave it a score of 6.5 in competitive category. I just to want to clarify something: Does this apply to the stock T50RP as well or is this mediocre imaging caused by the mad dog modification which was not intended for competitive gaming to begin with? I am reading rave impressions about the imaging power of the stock T50RP in competitive FPS even from owners of the AKG K series and AD700x and HD 598s. I am about to buy it but read your Mad Dog review and pulled on the brakes!


----------



## illram

The BF1 discussion here is exactly why hardware solutions like the G6 are still viable, and in many cases preferable. Basically every game has "normal" surround so every game is going to work. And this confusion is in a game which has Atmos as an in-game, advertised feature no less.


----------



## mindbomb (Aug 7, 2019)

I haven't used the dolby access app, but I would have thought it came with a decoder for atmos bitstreams. Anyway, it also functions as virtual 7.1 for headphones in a lot of games that don't support windows spatial sound, so you are rarely left empty handed.


----------



## mindbomb (Aug 7, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> i understand but the headphones option in game menue gave me the best separation and volume while still implementing the virtual surround feature by windows sonic. I tried all possible combinations.



If you are using windows sonic for headphones, you should have battlefield one set to large speakers, surround. And make sure to check the virtual 7.1 option for windows sonic as well.

Also, remember that it will tell you in the taskbar if windows sonic for headphones is working.
https://i.imgur.com/3gtCZXH.png


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## Lausilxn

For enable Dolbly Atmos in Battlefiel 1 go C:\Users\{you user}\Documents\Battlefield 1\settings open the file "PROFSAVE_profile" and change "GstAudio.IsATMOSOptionEnabled 0"  to "GstAudio.IsATMOSOptionEnabled 1"
In my subjective opinion about vss SBX is great but "OpeanAL Soft default HRTF" built-in HeSuVi is better without compromising the audio quality and using oratory/Harman eq presets


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## Evshrug (Aug 8, 2019)

debugman said:


> Hi, I got the DSS but the analog is not working (don't hear party chat).
> 
> I follow the directions in this diagram:
> 
> ...



Hi, I just started using my DSS 2 again because everything was too hazy from my Creative SoundBlaster Katana Soundbar. DSS2’s DAC is much crisper, and it works well double-amped to my big amp (Sennheiser HDV 820). However, for chat I just use the mic built into my PlayStation Camera, because it leaves a USB port open and sounded quite good since it sits on my PC monitor (not too far away).

If you don’t have a PlayStation Camera (I got it for VR and streaming), then I believe you can plug the little (Sabrent?) USB Audio Dongle with headphone and microphone ports directly into the PS4. Select it in the Playstation’s “Sound and Devices” settings as chat input, and set the output as “Optical: all sounds.” That should work, but I’m not going to know for sure because I don’t use a little USB Audio dongle. Good luck!



ronfifer said:


> But i tried it with Battlefield 1 and there was absolutely no difference! Airplanes where still zipping from left to right and everything was spanning left to right just like what you would expect from Windows Sonic. What am I missing? Audio Options are Headphones and Surround. Sound Properties: Dolby Atmos for Headphones.



I see the problem.
Do not select “headphones” as the output in Battlefield 1 settings. That creates a (crappy) binaural stereo mix, and then Windows Atmos just sees it as a stereo (2 direction) sound and basically passes it through. Dolby Atmos basically needs to be fed a 7.1 (or better, 7.1.4) “home theater” or “large speakers” surround mix, so that it has 11 directions of audio to work with and make a truly 3D binaural mix.


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## Evshrug (Aug 8, 2019)

Lausilxn said:


> For enable Dolbly Atmos in Battlefiel 1 go C:\Users\{you user}\Documents\Battlefield 1\settings open the file "PROFSAVE_profile" and change "GstAudio.IsATMOSOptionEnabled 0"  to "GstAudio.IsATMOSOptionEnabled 1"
> In my subjective opinion about vss SBX is great but "OpeanAL Soft default HRTF" built-in HeSuVi is better without compromising the audio quality and using oratory/Harman eq presets



OpenAL was great. Shame Windows tried really hard to kill it with the release of Vista. Because of the way Microsoft changed the audio stack, enabling OpenAL became a backdoor workaround pain, and new games don’t bother to truly support it. Borderlands 2 with OpenAL enabled a similar way as you described for Atmos was pretty wonderful though.


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## debugman

Evshrug said:


> Hi, I just started using my DSS 2 again because everything was too hazy from my Creative SoundBlaster Katana Soundbar. DSS2’s DAC is much crisper, and it works well double-amped to my big amp (Sennheiser HDV 820). However, for chat I just use the mic built into my PlayStation Camera, because it leaves a USB port open and sounded quite good since it sits on my PC monitor (not too far away).
> 
> If you don’t have a PlayStation Camera (I got it for VR and streaming), then I believe you can plug the little (Sabrent?) USB Audio Dongle with headphone and microphone ports directly into the PS4. Select it in the Playstation’s “Sound and Devices” settings as chat input, and set the output as “Optical: all sounds.” That should work, but I’m not going to know for sure because I don’t use a little USB Audio dongle. Good luck!



I can chat, I plug a usb sound card to the DSS, but I can't control the chat volume because the analog can not work while the optical is connected. So, I think someone should edit this diagram, so no one else will be misguided as I did.

Maybe in the DSS 2 it works.


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## mindbomb

Evshrug said:


> Do not select “headphones” as the output in Battlefield 1 settings. That creates a (crappy) binaural stereo mix, and then Windows Atmos just sees it as a stereo (2 direction) sound and basically passes it through. Dolby Atmos basically needs to be fed a 7.1 (or better, 7.1.4) “home theater” or “large speakers” surround mix, so that it has 11 directions of audio to work with and make a truly 3D binaural mix.



There is a binaural audio option in battlefield 5, but battlefield one doesn't have it. In battlefield one, there are two options, one where you can select stereo or surround sound, and the other where you select speaker type (small speakers, large speakers, headphones, war tapes), which I assume has to do with a high pass filter (large speakers get all the low frequencies), dynamic range compression (war tapes is the loudest, most compressed), and speaker placement (+/-90 degrees for headphones vs +/-30 degrees for speakers)  .


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## Evshrug

@mindbomb Cool, tbh I haven’t owned the series since Battlefield 4 (I also picked up the first game of the Battlefront reboot series... just for the VR mission and space combat), so I’m not as intimately familiar with the sound settings. Still, I have reason to believe that you should still select the “Surround” and the “Large Speakers” option.

Related personal story: with my gaming console, I had lately been using a Creative Sound Blaster Katana for months because it actually decodes  Dolby and processes SBX for its headphone jack, but it wasn’t cutting the mustard. I started playing CoD4 Remastered (aka Modern Warfare remastered, for those with no sense of history ), and I KNEW from experience that the surround and tactical cues could be so much more. I dug up my old DSS2, and immediately the sound was much cleaner and crisper (both the Katana and DSS2 were hooked up to a beefy HDV 820 amp to drive all my headphones with ease, ask me my thoughts on double-amping sometime ).

However, I noticed the DSS2’s “Dolby Signal Locked” light was off. I checked my PS4’s settings, and the sound output was correctly set for Optical as the primary output, and Bitstream Dolby as the preferred output... switched it to Linear PCM then back to Dolby Bitstream, still no joy, then I switched it to HDMI as the primary output (Optical still worked) and it asked me to select output formats (I noticed Dolby was unchecked, so I fixed that) and switched it back to Optical + Dolby, and this time the settings stuck and Surround was working great!!!

The Katana might image better with the surround now that I “turned it off and on again” in settings, but I prefer the DSS2’s EQ and positional settings over the Katana’s default options, and like I said it seems like the DSS2’s output is less hazy and more crisp. Until the release of the Smyth Realiser A16 or a Sennheiser processor (DSP) that is surround-compatible with a console, I’ll probably stick to the DSS2. Shame though, sometimes it’s nice to use the Katana speakers as a break from headphones, but overall everything just sounds better with the DSS2 for now.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 10, 2019)

So I sent Todd of TTVJ Audio an email for the Grado White loaner tour.

I hope they hit the need and desire for me to own a pair of big bowl Grados.

Although I only get a week if I don't end up going with a pair of my own, I'm gonna try and do at least a decent enough review of it for here. May not be a full blown review, but I'll try and hit the important notes.

I really, REALLY liked the Grado GW100's sound, but the comfort wasn't where I needed it to be. The big bowl pads I had ordered made them stupid comfortable, but ruined the sound. Hopefully a pair of Grados made to be used with the big pads by default would deliver what I'd like.  The only thing that bothers me is that the White headphone is only a limited time, and after that it's discontinued, so it wouldn't age well on this guide. That's why I was aiming more for a GS1000e instead, but I don't like the price jump, and I can't sample them. I'd love to though.

There's also the HD800 that I REALLY wanna try out and consider as well. *COUGH* @Evshrug *COUGH*


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## Fegefeuer (Aug 10, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> *Dolby Atmos customization options* are also missing. .



Ha, *update* just came in. Let's you switch between movies and gaming and offers 3 EQ presets you can customize and disable virtualizing through them as well.

Offers a *performance mode* für "pro gaming" which supposedly improves upon positioning. It's nothing though, it simply deactivates the "Intelligent EQ function when activated. 
Needs testing between ON and OFF with no "Intelligent EQ". 

Also offers some sort of "crystal voice/Dialog+" like the SB cards.


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## Azurik (Aug 12, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Ha, *update* just came in. Let's you switch between movies and gaming and offers 3 EQ presets you can customize and disable virtualizing through them as well.
> 
> Offers a *performance mode* für "pro gaming" which supposedly improves upon positioning. It's nothing though, it simply deactivates the "Intelligent EQ function when activated.
> Needs testing between ON and OFF with no "Intelligent EQ".
> ...



Was it the app that updated or system software? I haven't had any updates yet. Do you have to be in the preview programme?

Strangely, for some reason, my app keeps saying I'm not experiencing Dolby Atmos and to go to setup or connect headphones. All my settings are correct on my xbox as they have been since day one and I never had that error message before. However, if I play the demo clips, I am definitely getting Atmos.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 12, 2019)

So I was messing about listening to music and was hearing clipping and distortion coming out of my Modi 3/Magni 3, I hadn't noticed. Then again, I rarely use headphones or that gear, so I was like "Oh no, it's a dud."

Turns out, I had to lower the music player's digital volume to around 80% to stop the clipping/distortion. Sigh. At least I know it wasn't the gear. It was happening through both winamp and foobar, so I was panicking a bit.


----------



## Trancefreak

I'm not doubting your experience, but what makes the sound clip/distort if not the hardware?
I'm confused


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 12, 2019)

Trancefreak said:


> I'm not doubting your experience, but what makes the sound clip/distort if not the hardware?
> I'm confused


I distinctly recall a while back that one of us was having a problem on ps4 where a game would badly clip with their gear. Like audible pops and crackles. I mentioned I was having a similar issue with The Last of Us. We couldn't figure it out until someone mentioned that if you lowered in game volume settings, these distortions would stop, and sure enough they did.

I'm sure that what I've done here is actually reduce the amount of information which isn't good.

And you might be right, it could be something with my gear. I'm gonna have to retest that song with the G6, Mixamp, and everything else and see if they all clip with the Winamp/Foobar at Max volume as I have always had them and not notice this problem.

I do have my Modi and Magni getting their information from the G6 via the spdif out which may be an issue.

edit: found out below that the G6 was the culprit. Thank you for at least putting in my head that it could be hardware related.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 12, 2019)

So I haven't attached the Modi through USB since I've bought it really. So decided to test that first to rule out the Magni  and possibly the Modi. Guess, what? Even at 100% digital volume on both music programs, 100% on the Modi's USB signal, there is zero clipping. Sounds 100% perfect.

So yeah, something wrong happening in the spdif's signal, whether it's in the Modi, the G6, a missmatch between the signal level to what the Modi's spdif can handle, etc.

I have to figure it out.

edit: Setting the G6 to 16/44 2 speakers, and sending that to the Modi = clipping gone. A good sign. I'll keep re-editing. edit again: Set it to 5 and 7 channels at 16/44 = clipping is back.

HMMM... so obviously, the G6 is having problems with multiple channels. Now I have to test the G6 directly, without the Modi and see if it's still there.

edit again: *G6 alone, usb dac mode. 7 channel, clipping occurs. Set it to two channel at 24/96. Clipping fixed. So there's the problem. The G6 set to multiple channels has sq problems with music files, at best. At worst, 5 or 7 speaker settings on the G6 is just bad. 
*
What irks me is that it affects the digital signal too, messing it up for the Modi which I didn't think was possible. I thought the digital signal was left untouched. Well, other than the G6 converting the spdif out to stereo, as it doesn't do straight bypass (if it did, the Modi wouldn't even get a proper signal at all, as it can't take anything other than 2 channel data).

I'm gonna have to dig out my Xonar U3 and have have that send a signal through the spdif out under the same conditions and see if it messes up. I have a feeling it's the G6 here. edit: Xonar U3 24/96 7 channels through the headphone out on the U3 = no clipping.

So there you have it. It's the G6's 5/7 channel processing that has an easier point of distortion. A shame.

Mind you, it seems to be only a problem with music files atm. I haven't heard any issues when I game, or I'm on youtube, or doing other things on the PC. It is only with music files. The easy, no hard swap fix here is to switch to 2 channel when I'm not gaming. But this is something I've never had to do, as 2 channel/7 channel it would all just be converted down properly without issues. Maybe it's a firmware fix. Maybe it's tied to my particular unit. I dunno. It's made worse that the music file I test was a freely available, but doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

I could also just stop using the G6 and use the Xonar U3 instead. It can send a clean signal to the Modi digital, and Dolby Headphone is something I'm used to for when I wanna game. I was only using the G6 for SBX processing. The Modi does the dac duties, and magni the amplification.


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## mindbomb (Aug 13, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I haven't attached the Modi through USB since I've bought it really. So decided to test that first to rule out the Magni  and possibly the Modi. Guess, what? Even at 100% digital volume on both music programs, 100% on the Modi's USB signal, there is zero clipping. Sounds 100% perfect.
> 
> So yeah, something wrong happening in the spdif's signal, whether it's in the Modi, the G6, a missmatch between the signal level to what the Modi's spdif can handle, etc.
> 
> I have to figure it out.



This is so weird since I was just posting about this in another thread. The virtual 7.1 results in a volume increase. For a lot of these devices, it is assumed that you will be using digital volume control, so this creates headroom for those volume increases. But when you use an external amp, people set the dac to 100% and lose that headroom. The clipping is the result of asking the dac for more than 100%.

Personally, I just leave my windows volume at 60% as an insurance policy with dh.


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## Lay.

I have not had the clipping issue with G6 --> Sennheiser HDV 820. Then again I'm using it just with PS4 and gaming.


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## Mad Lust Envy

You shouldn't. It's literally only something I get on PC when playing back music on a music program like Foobar/Winamp while 5 or 7 speaker is selected, and VERY rarely with a few songs.


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## Evshrug

And not when you use the Spotify app on the PS4?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 13, 2019)

I have only used that program long ago on my ps4 when I was playing Wipeout. But no.

I know it's limited to my specific circumstance because playing the same songs through YouTube doesn't occur, and or changing the G6 to 2 channel fixes it as well.

It COULD be my PC which has questionable/noisy  USB ports too which may further mess up the G6.


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## Trancefreak

Since games are 44.1/16bit and they don't cause a problem... Can you say that the clipping pops up when you try and play 24bit files?

It might be that the DSP has trouble with HiRes files/data or something. 
Don't think it'll be a USB problem. You can try another source, but I think USB problems are unlikely.


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## Yethal

debugman said:


> I found the DSS manual  and it says there that it can't play the digital and analog input at the same time.
> 
> I am not sure who created the above diagram, but if you see this please explain how you got this to work


Hi, I created this diagram. Didn't use the dss personally, I drew it based on post of another user who showed us the trick with the syba adapter. No idea who it was this was years ago.


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## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have only used that program long ago on my ps4 when I was playing Wipeout. But no.
> 
> I know it's limited to my specific circumstance because playing the same songs through YouTube doesn't occur, and or changing the G6 to 2 channel fixes it as well.
> 
> It COULD be my PC which has questionable/noisy  USB ports too which may further mess up the G6.



If your clipping is caused by the dsp, the 3 variables to look at are the channels, the low frequencies, and the loudness of the content. Combining more channels = making things louder. Low frequencies have long wavelengths that pass across the head in binaural audio = making things louder since you have more things to combine then. And if the content is loud to start with, that means less headroom for the volume to increase, since there is a limit on how high the volume can be represented digitally.

The proper solution in this case is to just lower the system volume, which will create more headroom. 50% volume in windows is -10.5db, so that creates a hefty 10.5db of headroom. That should cover pretty much every tough case that you could realistically run in to.

If you use the sound card by itself, without an external amp, what happens is that as the content gets louder, people naturally lower the digital volume anyway. So the problem never manifests normally. It really only comes into the picture when people get external amps and then set their system volume to 100% and use analog volume control.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Trancefreak said:


> Since games are 44.1/16bit and they don't cause a problem... Can you say that the clipping pops up when you try and play 24bit files?
> 
> It might be that the DSP has trouble with HiRes files/data or something.
> Don't think it'll be a USB problem. You can try another source, but I think USB problems are unlikely.



I tried 16/44, still clips.



mindbomb said:


> If your clipping is caused by the dsp, the 3 variables to look at are the channels, the low frequencies, and the loudness of the content. Combining more channels = making things louder. Low frequencies have long wavelengths that pass across the head in binaural audio = making things louder since you have more things to combine then. And if the content is loud to start with, that means less headroom for the volume to increase, since there is a limit on how high the volume can be represented digitally.
> 
> The proper solution in this case is to just lower the system volume, which will create more headroom. 50% volume in windows is -10.5db, so that creates a hefty 10.5db of headroom. That should cover pretty much every tough case that you could realistically run in to.
> 
> If you use the sound card by itself, without an external amp, what happens is that as the content gets louder, people naturally lower the digital volume anyway. So the problem never manifests normally. It really only comes into the picture when people get external amps and then set their system volume to 100% and use analog volume control.



My volume was already at 0% on Windows. Remember, I'm simply transporting data from the G6 to the optical out the Modi. Volume level doesn't affect the optical out.

Even connecting the headphones directly to the G6 and lowering volume to minimal levels, you can hear the clipping. It's only fixed by lowering the music program volume, which means possible information loss. AT least if all I had was the G6 set to 5/7 channel. Again, if I set it to 2 channel, it doesn't matter if the music program is at 100%, it'll be fine.

Anyways, issue is resolved. Just set the G6 to 2 channel when listening to music files. Considering I always go to the G6's software to turn spdif to direct when not gaming (direct = no processing), doing one extra step of moving back to 2 channel takes a little half a second. It's all in the same window.


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## mindbomb (Aug 14, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My volume was already at 0% on Windows. Remember, I'm simply transporting data from the G6 to the optical out the Modi. Volume level doesn't affect the optical out.
> 
> Even connecting the headphones directly to the G6 and lowering volume to minimal levels, you can hear the clipping. It's only fixed by lowering the music program volume, which means possible information loss. AT least if all I had was the G6 set to 5/7 channel. Again, if I set it to 2 channel, it doesn't matter if the music program is at 100%, it'll be fine.
> 
> Anyways, issue is resolved. Just set the G6 to 2 channel when listening to music files. Considering I always go to the G6's software to turn spdif to direct when not gaming (direct = no processing), doing one extra step of moving back to 2 channel takes a little half a second. It's all in the same window.



If the program is internally using a high bit depth, like 32 bit usually, and the output is high bit depth like 24 bit, then I don't think you have to worry about information loss.

I think that if lowering the volume in the player fixed it, then that points to volume as the culprit. But then idk why there would be clipping with just the g6 and headphones, when the volume is going to be controlled digitally. Like, I don't see why lowering the volume on the g6 would be different than lowering it in the player.

You mentioned it doesn't happen in youtube, but it happens in music applications. I think what is happening there is that those applications, if you are using wasapi, you send 2 channel to the g6, and the g6 will possibly just upmix to 8 channels. So more channels, greater volume increase, more chance of clipping. When you use youtube, with windows set to 7.1, it is just the original 2 channels plus 6 blank channels, and it is effectively 2 channels.


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## Fegefeuer

DTS X Headphone App should be released soon. Already works for 20H1 insider builds. 

https://www.windowscentral.com/dtsx...ows-10-builds-bringing-spacial-surround-sound


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## Mad Lust Envy

So tinypic went under and now I have broken image links in some reviews. FANTASTIC.


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## Vader2k

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So tinypic went under and now I have broken image links in some reviews. FANTASTIC.



That stinks.  Are they at least offering an option to download your images before they completely shut down so you can relocate them somewhere else?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 13, 2021)

Ok guys, this one has been left simmering for a LONG time, and there may be some things I need to adjust or reiterate on, but I wanted to at least get it out there, as it is fresh for you guys. If I feel the need, I MAY edit in a few things. Especially the images where the host is going under, and I'll have to find a new place for them and edit those links in. We'll see how it goes. Anyways, here it is.

I'll try and answer any questions that make any sort of sense and not answered in the review when they come up. These are NOT fresh on my mind, as I haven't had them at home in quite some time, so please be aware of that much.


----------

*Audeze LCD-GX*




$899 MSRP as of August 2019

Where To Buy: Audeze
Review first posted HERE

*Disclaimer: Update 7/7/2021: I've started my employment at Audeze as a Customer Service Rep. As this review was done prior to my employment, I will leave this review here and intact, but do not expect any future reviews for Audeze products. First look style articles, perhaps, but I can't in good conscience review a product for a company I work for.*

A special thanks to Audeze for sending these out for impressions and review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.

After the spectacular and incredibly versatile Mobius, you'd probably think that Audeze would sit back and let the Mobius stand out as their sole product that would target the gaming crowd. Well, it appears it was far from what Audeze was planning. They instead decided to tap into their LCD line and bring out a more conventional headphone-turn-headset with their new LCD-GX. Their aim was to bring out an LCD class quality headphone, albeit with lighter weight, incredible 100dB/1mW efficiency, and a brand new cable with embedded boom microphone. It looks like Audeze is quite serious about being a household name among gamers. That's a market sorely lacking in high level, audiophile products, saved only by a few products from companies like Sennheiser, Audio-Technica, and Beyerdynamic. Now we can add Audeze to that short list, bringing alongside it their superb take on planarmagnetic technology to the gaming market. Per Audeze, it uses a modified/different magnetic circuit compared to other their other LCD headphones, and has no fazor implementation. What that entails is something new and unexpected, though it is still unmistakably an LCD in name, looks, build and sound quality.



*Build Quality:*

The LCD-GX (I'll call it the GX for the remainder of this review) is essentially like all the other Audeze LCD headphones. A very distinct design that is 100% Audeze. You simply can't mistake the Audeze aesthetic for anything else. It is a very industrial, no nonsense, rugged, durable design. When I owned the LCD-2 (two times, mind you), I would have told you how much I wasn't a fan of the looks. Well, it seems that the older headband and wood were the culprits that just weren't suited to my tastes, because the simple change to a newer headband, rounded out cups, and black magnesium on the GX makes a world of difference to my eyes. It all visually flows better.


Headband:






Last time I had an LCD headphone, it used the questionably bumpy headband that leave really bad sore spots on top of the head. I had the default leather variant, then bought the leather-free variant of the LCD2, and then finally ended up buying an LCD-1 headband which while not as durable in terms of materials used, the foam was flat and spongy, and much more comfortable than the replacements used during the early days of the LCD-2. The LCD-1 headband was considerably better in comfort, but it was on the itchy side due to the exposed foam. I could see how that may have been a factor in changing the design and materials used.

Thankfully, not long ago, Audeze once again upgraded their LCD headbands. Now they simply use a thin, flattened metal with a split in the middle, and beneath that, a suspended leather strap with perforations, presumably to allow for less heat buildup, and less contact surface. Regardless of the reason, the new headband system is an extreme improvement in both comfort and aesthetics. The headband alone would turn the LCD line into a, "deal with the comfort so you can get some magical sound" to, "oh my god, why don't all headphones use this headband"? Yes, it's that extreme a change in the best way. At the moment, I can't think of a better headband from ANY manufacturer. In terms of full size headphones, no other headphone's headband disappears off my head the way this one does. I've looked at my guide trying to find a headphone with better headband comfort and I believe the only two contenders off memory are the Stax SR-407's leather strap, and MrSpeakers Mad Dog's comfort strap.

The Headband piece that attaches to the steel extension rods are held in place by 4 screws, so you know they aren't going anywhere. Very durable, and highly unlikely to ever break. On each square piece is the Audeze logo/branding, with L and R indicators on the inner side.






The steel rods have notches for various size extensions. Each notch audibly clicks as you adjust. I quite like this design, really. It's functional, and durable, and will not show any real wear no matter how much you adjust the size. The rods also allow the cups to swivel outward 45 degrees or so, so there should be enough give to fit any head shape.

The metal yokes that attach directly to the cups are painted black and have Audeze and LCD-GX printed on opposing sides. They allow the cups swivel vertically almost with enough freedom to swing the drivers outward.


Cups:

Not much has changed in terms of cup design from my long gone LCD2 of old. The cups are still humongous and head enveloping, the bottom still has angled mini-XLR inputs on each cup, and the pads are still glued on. The GX has changed to a plastic enclosure for the cups as opposed to metal or wood, which I feel is the correct choice. This isn't some cheap plastic. This is the kind of plastic you can toss about without ever worrying that it will so much as make a slight creak. It's built like a tank.

The outer cups, like all LCD headphones have the Audeze 'A' grill design, with a red mesh backdrop, which contrasts beautifully, making the grill design stand out more than all the other LCD headphones before it, in my opinion. The black and red aesthetic is typical in the gaming world, yet Audeze somehow managed to make it look classy and elegant with the GX. It doesn't look like a gamer headphone. It looks like complete business, no games. No tacky, RGB bling bling here.


Pads:






The GX retains the leather pads Audeze has used for many years now, since they updated from the original, thinner pads. The pads are incredibly thick and dense, to where they have almost perfect seal even though the headphone is open backed. The openings are oval shaped, and are quite cavernous, and should provide plenty of space for most ears.

My biggest complaint about the pads is that they are still glued on, so replacement isn't a simple affair. Considering I still have a pair of highly abused leather free LCD pads (and as some people may know, I have a slight aversion to leather/pleather pads), I would've liked to easily swap and test out. I truly hope Audeze finds a way to make LCD headphones where pads are easy to swap out without glue. Maybe the next one, Audeze?


Cables:

The GX comes with two cables. The standard headphone cable is around 2 meters long, braided from top to bottom with a black, shiny material finish. Dual entry mini-XLR on the headphone side that are easy to connect/disconnect as with all Audeze LCD headphones. On the end is a rather robust, large 1/4" Neutrik TRS plug. Unfortunately there is no 3.5mm plug hidden underneath, nor an adapter to find for this cable. Considering how efficient the GX is, I don't see it unreasonable to believe some people would likely connect the GX to small devices. They'll have to rely on getting an adapter of their own, though I advise on NOT getting barrels that change from 1/4 to 3.5mm as those can put a lot of stress on your 3.5mm inputs. I recommend buying an adapter cable with a female 1/4 side, a small cable run, and then the 3.5mm plug, like THIS.






The second cable is what turns the GX into a headset. It is surprisingly longer than the standard cable (2.5 meters?), with a more typical, rubberized black material finish. It's pretty standard in thickness and flexibility. The headphone side comes with Rean branded mini-XLR dual entries, however, the left side holds the flexible gooseneck microphone, which is easy to bend and twist to your preference. There is a small puck at the split which is where you'll find the mic mute switch. On the opposite end is a small, thin, 3.5mm TRRS plug. As it is TRRS, don't try to use the 1/4 adapter without the splitter or you'll get messed up audio from your devices. This cable is for devices that have a mic channel like smartphones, and other combo headphone/mic inputs. Depending on device, you may have to use the included headphone/mic splitter. The review unit I was sent didn't have this, though luckily, I already had a splitter on hand.


Final Build Quality Impressions:






No surprises here. The LCD-GX is built like an absolute tank. Unlike the other LCDs that use wood, you're less likely baby the GX, as the magnesium body is less prone to accidental damage. The only thing I'd be cautious of is the standard audio cable's mini-XLR connectors which don't seem to have as durable strain reliefs like the headset cable. Not that they seem fragile, but I wouldn't rest the GX with the angled connectors faced down putting strain on them. The headband, the yokes, the pads, and the cups all look like they'll take everyday abuse. I'd consider the GX build quality to be well beyond excellent in nearly all regards.

The sole negative being that the pads are still glued on, and replacing them usually means potential damage from the adhesive ripping off part of the pad upon removal. This is something Audeze's design team needs to update sooner than later. The headband and cables are already easily replaceable, there's no reason why pads should be semi-permanently placed either.



*Accessories:*

I received a pre-release model of the GX, and so I can't say for certain how the final package will look like or what it includes. Once the GX releases, I'll probably update the review to reflect what's included. For now, you can expect the two sets of cables, one standard, one with the microphone. I believe the final product has a headphone/mic splitter, and 1/4" adapter. Though I believe, that's for the boom mic cable, and would've liked to see some 3.5mm adapter cable for the standard audio cable, considering the high efficiency of the GX, for more versatility in what you can use it with. For example, the GX is definitely sensitive enough for my phone, but I don't want to constantly have the mic near my face when using it. This is why they should've had some 3.5mm adapter for the regular cable.

I don't particularly care for items being included that may raise the price of a headphone that are unnecessary, so these bare essentials would be fine with me.



*Comfort:*

Disclaimer: I'm not the best person to talk about comfort, mainly because of the use of the choice in large leather/pleather pads. That immediately puts Audeze's LCD headphones in a steep, uphill battle for my personal comfort, as I really, really don't like that style of earpad on almost any headphone. I know many of you simply don't mind leather pads, which is why you have to take my thoughts here particularly with a grain of salt. Now you that understand that, please continue on!

The GX's comfort is something that absolutely surprised me, considering my memories of the LCD2 and its...questionable comfort. The GX may look a lot like the LCD2 I remember, but the comfort is improved in some significant ways.


Weight:

At 420g, the GX isn't light by typical headphone standards. That being said, it is considerably light by LCD means, and if you've ever experienced any LCD headphone outside of their MX4, you'd know 420g is featherweight by comparison. Most LCD headphones run well over 500g to nearly 700g. In addition, the headband will make those 420g feel like a bit less.


Headband:

The headband is the LCD-line's saving grace for comfort. The suspension-style without typically accompanied strong downwards tension really helps in spreading the weight all around your head. I've had lighter headphones that feel heavier because their headbands didn't distribute weight this efficiently. The headband is also so comfortable, I rarely notice it on top of my head. I always felt excess padding wasn't necessary if a headband wrapped around the head properly. This proves it. Just a soft touch from the leather is all that was needed. To say this is one of my favorite, if not my favorite style of headband out of all full-sized headphones says quite a lot. I think headband comfort will be one of the last things you worry about with the GX. It really is that good.


Ear pads:

The GX's pads, like the LCD2 pads of old, are something I personally don't care for and would want to replace immediately with some leather free or, at the very least, fabric topped pads like Dekoni hybrids. I'm really the last person you should take advice from in terms of pads with leather material. They're all generally lacking for me.

What I will say about the pads is that they're incredibly thick and dense, that you shouldn't worry about your ears bottoming out and touching the driver enclosure. The cavity is also very large, so you shouldn't expect any uncomfortable pinching of the ears.

I do need to note that, while the GX is open-backed, the pads create a seal on the level of some of the best closed-back headphones, where you'll feel the pressure of a 'seal' almost as if the GX was closed-back. This may or may not be a point of discomfort, though with some time, the pressure does disperse. This may also be in part with the clamp. I'll quote what I said many years ago with the LCD2, as it also applies here:

"My biggest issue is that even for an open-design headphone, they have that airplane cabin-pressure feeling once you put them on. It's as if the pads find a seal, and you get that suction feeling. It's a bit surprising and unpleasant, but the feeling goes away after awhile."


Clamp:

I'd consider the GX on the slightly clampy side as that is where most of the force keeping the headphone on your head will be. The thick, dense pads will be what tends to keep the GX completely secure to the head. You will feel the pads pressing towards your head.


Final Comfort Impressions:

I have to say the GX's headband makes weight a non-issue. The headband essentially disappears on your head, leaving almost all feelings, positive or negative to the clamp, and the pads. So headband comfort is bordering perfection to me.

Weight-wise, the headband really makes the GX's heft irrelevant, so I'd consider the weight comfort good. The LCD2 in comparison was rather mediocre in comfort because the weight was absolutely noticeable.

The feeling of clamp may change with different pads, but I'll say it's clampy to me. The pads really feel like they're putting some pressure on my head. Clamp comfort: Decent, not great

Again, the pads affect my thoughts on comfort, and it could turn a decently comfortable headphone to something much more comfortable alone. In the end, I'll just say that for me personally, the GX's comfort is good. Better than the LCD2 especially in weight and headband comfort, around the same as the LCD2 for clamp and pad comfort. I theorize that with leather-free/velour pads or even something like Dekoni hybrid pads, the GX's comfort could be summed up as great or even better than great.

My thoughts on comfort really should be taken with a grain of salt because if you're perfectly fine with leather/pleather pads, your impressions on comfort may be considerably more positive.



*Noise Control:*

While the GX is open-backed, it doesn't leak out as much as other open-backed headphones, particularly other planarmagnetic headphones like the Edition XX and Ananda by Hifiman. In terms of isolating from outside noises, don't expect miracles, but I do find it to attenuate external noises better than other open-backed headphones, so you may find it to work decently enough. As always, be mindful of others when listening to open-backed headphones, the GX included, but you can rest assured that one door closed between you and the next person is plenty of noise control here.



*Sound:*

The GX is as I've come to expect from an Audeze LCD headphone, and that is a good thing. The first thing that immediately jumps out at you is that wall of sound. The GX is in your face with a big beautiful, bold presence. It is rather surprising, considering gaming conventions would lead you to think that a more spaced back, spacious sound would be more ideal (and it does tend to be), but the GX does things in its own way that give it different strengths as opposed to typical, dry, gaming oriented headsets.

It's very linear from bass to midrange, with a tilt towards warmth, and with a soft upper midrange. What is different from my expectations coming from the LCD2 is the shimmer and crispness in the treble range. Back in the old LCD2 days, I did mention that despite its obvious lean towards warmth and significantly smooth treble, the LCD2 was still a surprisingly potent headphone for gaming due to how it was still quite detailed and clear in most frequency ranges. The GX one ups that by also adding upper range sparkle in the mix, leaving it more ideal for gaming purposes. If Audeze was going to orient the LCD sound to work better for gaming, the GX comes close to achieving what I believe would have been the ideal tonal balance without sacrificing what makes the LCD sound so memorable. It is still 100% Audeze LCD underneath all the gaming nomenclature.


Bass:

The GX has what you expect of an Audeze LCD: big, bold, beautiful bass. And not in the "hey thump, thump, boom, boom basshead baby" bass. I'm talking  about that, "I'm an LCD, and if you want bass impact, body, texture, speed, and control, here it all is, presented in a linear, non-disruptive manner. If you want energy, I'll give it as much as you'd like." Where it differs from the LCD2 of old is in that it feels even more controlled, and less omnipresent.  It's here to work harmoniously with the delectable midrange, and upper end sizzle. Make no mistake, it can rumble and thump like you expect from an LCD headphone, but it does it when it is absolutely required. Bass heavy music, action games, etc. The bass is there waiting to be unleashed.

It is cavernous, and subterranean. Even at 20hz you can just hear the grumble of the beast waiting to be unleashed, without so much as a whimper of it being strained. Nothing sticks out, and nothing is missing. Everything is in its place. Rest assured, the GX has the bass you've come to expect of a good planarmagnetic, particularly a good Audeze LCD. It's hard to come up with what to say about the GX's bass that hasn't already been said or expected. Personally, I believe Audeze has asserted itself as one of the best in the business when it comes to bass. The GX continues to prove why.

The only downside is that the body of the bass does warm up the sound quite a bit, so don't expect it to lend itself to a big, airy, soundstage compared to less fluid, dry sounding headphones.


Midrange to treble:

The midrange is another aspect on the GX that I've come to expect from Audeze after experiencing the LCD2 so many years ago, and more recently, their Mobius. It's full-bodied, meaty, sweet, upfront, and just..organic. It is deliciously present. The GX has one the best midranges that I have experienced. If there is one aspect of sound I could take with me and transplant it to other headphones, it's the midrange. That being said, that upfront midrange may not be the most ideal spacing for gaming, but it does allow for sounds in that area to never be missed in the background among other noises. It does however, end up making the soundstage feel intimate and smaller than other, further spaced out headphones.

As far as frequency tests go, I'd say that there is a slight dip between 1.4khz and 2khz, but it's only slight. After that, the rest of the midrange to treble up to 7khz is present without being overbearing or piercing. Just past 7khz there is a drop off to possibly the lowest point being around 7.5khz. After that, there is a rise to a very present 10khz point, which continues even to 12khz, with some noticeable extension up to 15khz to a lesser degree. What can be said of the GX's upper range, is that it's no slouch. It seems Audeze corrected the overly soft nature of the LCD2's upper midrange to treble here. This makes it a prime candidate for some good detail-orientation in gaming, without sacrificing the low end to achieve it. Based of my memories of the LCD2, is quite a stark difference. The GX is not a soft, sleepy headphone. It does have low range warmth up to the midrange, but it does not sacrifice the treble range, save for a 7.5khz dip, which isn't completely devoid of auditory information. It isn't a collapse of that range, just a slight blunting of it.

In the end, the fantastic midrange paired with minor upper end sparkle is quite beneficial to detail oriented gaming, and I can see why Audeze have leaned towards making this the gaming sound of the LCD-line. Where it doesn't benefit gaming is in the soundstage ending up not being as big, so air and room space is more intimate.



*Soundstage and Imaging:*

With no processing:

I'll be blunt in saying I feel the GX isn't the most open sounding headphone out there. It's not particularly wide in soundstage size. It is, however, equipped with good height, and depth, with excellent imaging properties. It paints a pretty vivid picture. The Edition XX in comparison has a larger soundstage, but imaging definition is hazy and diffused, whereas the GX defines objects more cleanly. So while the soundstage is not conventionally large next to more spacious sounding headphones, the imaging and object detail is strong, and as such, stereo soundstaging is perfectly suitable to my ears. I don't put much stock in soundstage size for stereo purposes, so the GX's innate soundstaging is perfectly adequate. That being said , the GX's strengths make it quite suitable for virtual surround conversion, which I place far more importance to when gaming.


With surround processing:

Virtual surround dsps help project the GX sense of space outward very convincingly. The GX's inherently strong imaging and soundstage depth aid it in being more natural, and less headphone-esque. This helps make the GX a very good choice for general gaming, and movie watching in virtual surround. This is not a surprise, as even though the LCD2 had a massive sonic wall that seemed to restrict soundstage in it's raw, unprocessed stereo form, the LCD2's soundstage opened up nicely with virtual surround dsps. The GX works even better in this regard, making it a far more ideal gaming headphone when surround processing is utilized.


*Clarity:*

The bold, upfront bass and midrange make it quite a simple affair for the GX to retrieve details down low and in the middle. It will expose flaws in these regions. The upper midrange is softer of note and less focused, but is still quite respectable. The GX's strength over my experiences with the old LCD2 are that the treble range is no longer fully blunted down and glossed over. There is some sharp bite at 10khz and above, offering more top crystallesque detail that would've been less obvious on the LCD2. The GX isn't aimed at being hyper clear headphones where upper midranges are emphasized. Instead, the GX ultimately leans on the thick, warmer, enveloping sound. Don't expect treble brightness, but do expect some presence.

The GX is in a place where volume level will be important in either making the GX come off a bit soft, or strong in detail focus. If you're a low level listener, the GX may be lenient and full bodied where clarity isn't the prime importance. Personally, I believe the GX will appeal more to moderate to higher level listeners in terms of providing the clarity that it absolutely does have.


*Sound Signature:*

Warm balance, full, bold, thick, linear bass and midrange, softer upper midrange, sharp, present 10khz treble with good extension, without brightness. Overall warm tilted, not overly smooth.

Bass: The bass has fantastic texture and clarity, despite its strength and body. The bass won't bloom or cave under enermous pressure given from today's electronic music. The GX will grab hold, and exude a commanding presence.

Midrange: The lush, upfront, naturally voiced midrange puts you essentially in the front row. Upper midrange is below neutral line, but not overly so

Treble: Below neutral, with 7.5khz softness, 10khz sparkle, good extension. Fatigue-free, no veil

Soundstage: Intimate though tall with excellent depth/imaging



*Amplification:*

The GX is incredibly efficient even for a planar. It takes less on the volume pot compared to Hifiman's Edition XX and Ananda, both which are also highly efficient. The GX also seems to scale with some power, so amplification can also be warranted, though not necessary at all for great enjoyment out of the GX. I can barely touch the Schiit Magni 3's high gain mode due to how efficient the GX is.

As for what flavor of amplification, I do believe a neutral solid state will be ideal due to the already forward, full-bodied sound. The bass is bold and quick, the midrange is full and forward, and the upper end does have some zest and shimmer, though its still a softer upper range than more detail oriented headphones. Something to enhance its sharpness and clarity seems best for the GX.



*Gaming:*

I'm not particularly worried too much about stereo soundstage for gaming, and the GX does not change this for me. As long as imaging is strong, stereo gaming will be just fine on any headphone, which the GX clearly has an advantage in. So if you're someone who doesn't use virtual surround dsps and prefer raw stereo when gaming, the GX with its excellent imaging and depth should suit you very well, as long as you're not expecting a bunch of air and space. Personally, stereo gaming tends to sound flat to me regardless of whatever headphone I use, so I don't really place much importance here. The GX does all that I would require of it well, like say...using it for the Nintendo Switch which is limited to stereo.

As far as virtual surround gaming goes, I'll be completely real in saying it wouldn't be my first choice if hardcore gaming is the only priority, as I believe headphones with a more spaced back sound and wider soundstage are more ideal. The upfront nature of its sound is less ideal compared to headphones that I'd typically recommend for serious gaming. That being said, the GX offers a more, in your face, action-packed immersion. This would make the more casual, less competitive gaming quite a bit more fun. Things like horror or single player shooters would arguably be more impactful on the GX compared to other headphones. The virtual surround still benefits the GX greatly in providing a very good gaming soundstage.  If you're someone who isn't overly competitive and play more for fun and other casual necessities, the GX is absolutely a blast to use. If hardcore/competitive gaming is your main purpose, I think there is better to be found elsewhere, where a dry, detail orientation is more ideal. You would sacrifice immersion and auditory enjoyment, for a calculated sonic advantage. Personally, I don't play games competitively, so the GX is well suited to my needs most of the time.

For those who are used to my old method of gauging gaming performance...

Fun: You will have great enjoyment out of fun/casual gaming where your performance compared to others isn't a big concern. The deep, atmospheric tonality really highlights how fun gaming with headphones can be. The GX's depth really allows for easy to discern positional cues whether in front or behind you, making it a great weapon for picking off targets hidden from sight. Make no mistake, the LCD-GX is a blast. Yes, a bigger sense of space would have made the GX nearly perfect, but it really isn't a necessity here.

Hardcore/competitive: There are better options than the GX, simply due to the fact it's not a dry, bright, detail oriented headphone. The tonal balance just isn't ideal for this specific purpose, which, while not optimal for competitive gaming, is beneficial in nearly every other regard, so I'll glady take that loss. Not that the GX ain't detailed. It truly is, but it's not the main focus. The one other aspect that could've benefited hardcore/competitive gaming is a better sense of space and air, but that too, is at odds with its forward, intimate sound. You truly can't have everything.



*Microphone:*



Having done some basic mic recording tests, I found the GX's mic to be perfectly adequate for my needs. The voice is clear, there's no unbearable background hiss, or overly nasal compression. I'm not the final word on microphones and their quality, but I doubt there'd be many who would complain about the sound quality here.






Functionally-speaking, there's not much on the GX mic. A simple mic/mute switch. No volume wheel or anything, and I'd guess it's likely to keep the signal path as clean as possible.



*Personal Recommendations:*

Media:

Audeze is aiming the GX at gamers, and yes, it can game, very well in fact. However, I find myself having a hard time separating it from Audeze's roots with the LCD line's sultry, dulcet tones that lean more on musicality more than hardcore gaming. Yes, it tilts the tonal balance to be less so than before, yet it can't escape its innately warm, forward, lush sound.

As such, if you're going to use it for gaming, I think it presents itself better with dark, moody games focused on ambience and atmosphere. Or games that better connect you to the characters and world, and less on multiplayer, frenetic, detail-mongering games where audio reproduction is less a pleasure inducing aspect of the game, and more a dry, impersonal, competitive necessity. It can still do that sort of gaming just fine, but I wouldn't reach for the GX if that was my priority. Even Audeze's own Mobius would be better suited at being less about enjoyment and more about getting a competitive edge, with its full suite of tools and sound enhancing presets.

Get the GX for the beautiful sound it makes, not for the tasks of hyper detail retrieval and brute forcing sound cues.


Real world practicality:

These are definitely 'keep at home' headphones. While this is technically a headset, its open-backed nature makes it a poor choice for lan or public events due to lack of noise isolation, and its massive size. It is certainly rugged enough to throw in a bag if you wish to take it with you on your travels, but it'd be better suited to more private settings.



*Likes and Dislikes:*

Likes:

Forward, impactful, immersive sound
Deep, balanced bass
Luscious midrange
Headband comfort
Highly efficient
Light for an LCD headphone
Build quality

Dislikes:

Glued on pads, not a simple process to replace
Intimacy of the sound may not be ideal for the specific purpose of competitive gaming



*Final Impressions:*

The Audeze LCD-GX is somewhat of a confusing headphone for me. Perhaps it's my own preferences and beliefs in what makes a headphone 'gaming-centric', but I do feel that calling the GX a gaming headphone first is selling it short.

While I absolutely believe it's a good headphone for the targeted purpose of gaming, I believe it makes a better headphone for far more uses outside of just gaming. I think for the purpose of purely competitive gaming, Audeze would have to dramatically adjust its headphone design to something different. What that would be, I don't yet know. But then, it just wouldn't be an LCD.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm having a problem adding it to the front page, so....... (no more than 40 images or something)_

I'll see if I can figure it out later, right now sleep calls, and I have a long shift when I wake up, so it's gonna have to wait.


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## Beagle

> As far as frequency tests go, I'd say that there is a slight dip between 1.4khz and 2khz, but it's only slight. After that, the rest of the midrange to treble up to 7khz is present without being overbearing or piercing. Just past 7khz there is a drop off to possibly the lowest point being around 7.5khz. After that, there is a rise to a very present 10khz point, which continues even to 12khz



I guess all Audeze (and planars in general) are going to have this sound. Nature of the beast I suppose.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Beagle said:


> I guess all Audeze (and planars in general) are going to have this sound. Nature of the beast I suppose.


Yeah, it definitely retains what I'd consider to be the Audeze house sound, with minor tweaks to their general curve. I think if they strayed too far from it, it wouldn't be an LCD anymore, so I can at least understand why it retains some expected characteristics of their prior headphones.


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## MattTCG (Aug 22, 2019)

Come on MLE, this headphone is still quite heavy. A well constructed headband might alleviate the hotspots but it won't magically reduce the 420+ grams parked on your head. I have no respect or interest in anything by Audeze until they create a headphone that weighs sub 400 grams and has a similar signature to the lcd-4. Wait...that headphone has already been made by another company. 

If it sounds like I'm giving them a little crap, I am. But it's deserved.


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## Mad Lust Envy

MattTCG said:


> Come on MLE, this headphone is still quite heavy. A well constructed headband might alleviate the hotspots but it won't magically reduce the 420+ grams parked on your head. I have no respect or interest in anything by Audeze until they create a headphone that weighs sub 400 grams and has a similar signature to the lcd-4. Wait...that headphone has already been made by another company.
> 
> If it sounds like I'm giving them a little crap, I am. But it's deserved.



Hahaha. I mean, you ain't lying, but when it comes to Audeze you have to give them some concessions. And believe me that headband IS a miracle. You know how much of a stickler I am for headphone comfort, but really, I could wear the GX all day and the first point of discomfort would never ever be the weight. The airplane pressure feel is much more noticeable than the weight. That took a while to get used to.


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## MattTCG

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hahaha. I mean, you ain't lying, but when it comes to Audeze you have to give them some concessions. And believe me that headband IS a miracle. You know how much of a stickler I am for headphone comfort, but really, I could wear the GX all day and the first point of discomfort would never ever be the weight. The airplane pressure feel is much more noticeable than the weight. That took a while to get used to.



Nope. They get NO concessions until they get the weight down. Old people (me) can't hear bricks on their heads and still be able to enjoy music.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 22, 2019)

MattTCG said:


> Nope. They get NO concessions until they get the weight down. Old people (me) can't hear bricks on their heads and still be able to enjoy music.



From over 700g to 420g. Come on. THEY'RE MOVING FORWARD. 

They'll have to drastically redesign the LCD line to get that weight down further without skimping on materials.

I wonder if all the metal bits can have a plastic or other lighter material alternative.


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## MattTCG (Aug 22, 2019)

https://media1.giphy.com/media/vcKEsYOdjoCeJRpn95/giphy.gif

If nobody tells them it's not okay, then they will continue to make ridiculously heavy headphones.


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## mightyKyn

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I tried 16/44, still clips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gbb


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## iBo0m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok guys, this one has been left simmering for a LONG time, and there may be some things I need to adjust or reiterate on, but I wanted to at least get it out there, as it is fresh for you guys. If I feel the need, I MAY edit in a few things. Especially the images where the host is going under, and I'll have to find a new place for them and edit those links in. We'll see how it goes. Anyways, here it is.
> 
> I'll try and answer any questions that make any sort of sense and not answered in the review when they come up. These are NOT fresh on my mind, as I haven't had them at home in quite some time, so please be aware of that much.
> 
> ...



Cool reading with proper honesty


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## raband

MLE's patreon for anyone who thinks the guy deserves some support for the work he's done/doing

He only has 3 supporters so far - even 1 more person will make a difference

https://www.patreon.com/madlustenvy


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## Fegefeuer

Looks like the Fidelio X3 is incoming.






https://www.head-fi.org/threads/philips-fidelio-x3.913807/


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## Mad Lust Envy

Pretty. Doesn't look very open. Pads look glorious.


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## AxelCloris

Dual entry, so no BoomPro compatibility. Could be a deal breaker for those who loved the X1/X2 series.


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## lucifero13

Good day! Has someone compared the SB G6 to the EVGA Nu Audio?


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## SierraMadre (Aug 28, 2019)

lucifero13 said:


> Good day! Has someone compared the SB G6 to the EVGA Nu Audio?


I have the G6 but no experience of the Nu Audio. All I can say is that while it has great specs as far as internal sound cards go, perhaps the better comparison would be like for like, Nu Audio against Creative’s current line of sound cards, the  Soundblaster AE5, AE7 and AE9 (again which I have no experience of but I’m sure others will, if not here then elsewhere on more specialised PC gaming-centric forums).

In any case, from an internal sound card vs external USB Dac/AMP perspective, I wouldn’t recommend any of the aforementioned over the G6 unless you specifically want discrete multichannel analogue surround speaker output (and then you’d need one of the Creative’s for that, the EVGA is stereo outputs only) or there is another specific feature that the internal card offers which the G6 lacks. The G6 has better spec stats at least as far as listening goes (130db SNR vs 123db for the Nu Audio, not sure about recording) and is going to be far more resistant to electrical noise / interference as it’s an external device. Furthermore, it has something internal sound cards lack, multi-platform versatility; it can be used with consoles, TV ARC / optical out, DVD/Blu-ray players etc., basically anything with audio optical out.


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## stavros.m (Aug 28, 2019)

Hey everyone,

I currently have the dt 990 250ohms, which i use for PC gaming, but would like a good gaming headphone to connect to either the xbox, ps4 and the new stadia controller.

What would you guys recommend. I am open to open or closed back, i was debating on the shp9500, X2 or Superlux 668B but kinda hesitant since i see both of them are coming out with newer models. But i am open to any other headphones you guys recommend

thanks


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## skaar

Hi MLE/All,

I have a Sennheiser Game Zero (newer version, 50 ohm) along with a Astro Mixamp Pro (power output of 70mW 32 ohm per channel) and found this thread while searching for a solution to my problem (low-quality audio, "echo-y" voice through mic): https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ast...stion-double-amp-and-proper-headphone.641250/ which brought me here.

The platform I am using is a PS4 Pro (FPS gaming with mic) and I am planning on purchasing a *Schiit Magni 3* to daisy-chain to the Mixamp Pro as suggested by MLE in the thread I linked above:

"if using a mic: Source - Mixamp - Y cable (one end for chat, one for audio) - Mic on chat end, headphone Amp on the audio end - Headphone"

I wanted to confirm that what I am planning is correct and also ask the members of this forum (including MLE) for any pictures of this setup or something similar; do I need to purchase any additional cables to make this work? Thank you for your time

-Peter


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## Mad Lust Envy

If you have the y cable, then as long as you have a way to get the 3.5mm cable to RCA to attach to the Magni 3, that's it. So a 3.5mm to RCA cable.


----------



## skaar (Aug 28, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you have the y cable, then as long as you have a way to get the 3.5mm cable to RCA to attach to the Magni 3, that's it. So a 3.5mm to RCA cable.



The Y-cable I have is https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IM36VU0/ which I currently use to plug the Game Zero straight into the Mixamp. When using a Mixamp-Magni 3, would I not use this Y-cable at all and plug the "headphone" end into the Magni 3 and the "mic" into the Mixamp? For the 3.5mm-to-RCA, which would need to be male/female connectors? I apologize I'm not quite versed in audio intricacies and am trying to cover all of my bases. Thanks again

Edit: looking back at the Magni 3, I believe I understand the proper connections. From my Game Zero, I would connect the “chat” male connector to the Mixamp and the “headphone” male connector to a 3.5mm to RCA to the “out” on the back of the Magni 3. At this point the daisy chain would go from the front port of the Magni 3 to a daisy chain port on the Mixamp?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 28, 2019)

It's Mixamp to Y cable. Your Game Zero's pink plug (chat) to the chat side of the Y cable. Then the audio end of the Y cable (green) would connect to a 3.5mm to RCA cable with the 3.5mm being connected to the Y cable, and the RCA (red and white) to the BACK of the Magni 3. Then from the Magni 3's front, is where the game zero's green audio plug side connects to.

https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...D94B5304X118PNMA&qid=1567023195&s=electronics


----------



## skaar

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's Mixamp to Y cable. Your Game Zero's orange plug (chat) to the chat side of the Y cable. Then the audio end of the Y cable (green) would connect to a 3.5mm to RCA cable with the 3.5mm being connected to the Y cable, and the RCA (red and white) to the BACK of the Magni 3. Then from the Magni 3's front, is where the game zero's green audio plug side connects to.



Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

recheck the last post. I corrected a few things.


----------



## lucifero13

SierraMadre said:


> I have the G6 but no experience of the Nu Audio. All I can say is that while it has great specs as far as internal sound cards go, perhaps the better comparison would be like for like, Nu Audio against Creative’s current line of sound cards, the  Soundblaster AE5, AE7 and AE9 (again which I have no experience of but I’m sure others will, if not here then elsewhere on more specialised PC gaming-centric forums).
> 
> In any case, from an internal sound card vs external USB Dac/AMP perspective, I wouldn’t recommend any of the aforementioned over the G6 unless you specifically want discrete multichannel analogue surround speaker output (and then you’d need one of the Creative’s for that, the EVGA is stereo outputs only) or there is another specific feature that the internal card offers which the G6 lacks. The G6 has better spec stats at least as far as listening goes (130db SNR vs 123db for the Nu Audio, not sure about recording) and is going to be far more resistant to electrical noise / interference as it’s an external device. Furthermore, it has something internal sound cards lack, multi-platform versatility; it can be used with consoles, TV ARC / optical out, DVD/Blu-ray players etc., basically anything with audio optical out.



Thank you! I am new to this set up and in the audio scene, so I am thinking what should I get to enjoy both gaming and listening. Currently I am using PC37x as my headaset and a Jamo i300 as my speakers


----------



## illram

I'd be remiss to not tell you to check out Creative's SuperX-Fi device. In my opinion, other than the $4000 Smyth Realiser A16, it is the most realistic virtual surround device currently on the market for PC audio.


----------



## dandiego

Just saw this PR release regarding the Sound Blaster X3 with Super X-Fi. Looks good, but the only way to send it 5.1 is USB from a PC (no optical input)... but of course Creative doesn't make that clear despite mentioning its compatibility with PS4 and Switch... https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...ions-from-creative-at-ifa-2019-300908949.html


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## Fegefeuer

Look at the manual. DEDICATED SUPER XFied STEREO GAMING FOR CONSOLES, FRIENDS


----------



## illram

Features Dolby encoding but not decoding. What an odd decision. Basically a Super X-Fi with line-outs, which is cool I guess for a more feature-rich desktop experience vs. the dongle. Disappointing that the X-Fi-less X7/G6 remains the only console option for dolby decoding.


----------



## headphonesonly

I hope the next consoles allow a multi channel output via usb


----------



## knivek

headphonesonly said:


> I hope the next consoles allow a multi channel output via usb



Proprietary devices would be an arm and a leg if sold direct from Sony or Microsoft..  

I am curious to see how Stadia is going to work with some setups.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just want PS5 to have something like Dolby Atmos headphone by default. Then again, probably won't transfer it to their audio outs. 

Does the XB1 do Dolby Atmos headphone  onlythrough the controller jack?


----------



## knivek

I would love to say yes but I can't see it happening honestly.


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## illram (Aug 30, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I just want PS5 to have something like Dolby Atmos headphone by default. Then again, probably won't transfer it to their audio outs.
> 
> Does the XB1 do Dolby Atmos headphone  onlythrough the controller jack?



No, you can do it through HDMI or optical out.

I haven't tried it since the update where they added 7.1 VSS. Also not sure that update made it to Xbox vs. PC. But when I tried it a while ago it was pretty useless.


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## SierraMadre (Aug 30, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> Look at the manual. DEDICATED SUPER XFied STEREO GAMING FOR CONSOLES, FRIENDS


Interest was piqued for a moment but What? No optical in? So SXFI applied to multichannel Dolby Digital / DTS  from PS4 is out and Xbox is still no go. So in terms of SXFI processing for current gen consoles, it differs little from the existing SXFI AMP which already offers SXFI stereo for PS4 and Switch, while Xbox is incompatible. Very disappointing.

Thanks very much for sharing this though. Had been waiting for news on the upcoming SXFI products for a while.


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## SierraMadre (Aug 30, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I just want PS5 to have something like Dolby Atmos headphone by default. Then again, probably won't transfer it to their audio outs.
> 
> Does the XB1 do Dolby Atmos headphone  onlythrough the controller jack?


PS5 will reportedly have Sony’s own object based multichannel/3D audio processing solution for headphones  built-in. It’s possible they could work out a deal with Dolby or DTS like MS have done but less likely.


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## headphonesonly

SierraMadre said:


> PS5 will reportedly have Sony’s own object based multichannel/3D audio processing solution for headphones  built-in. It’s possible they could work out a deal with Dolby or DTS like MS have done but less likely.


The PlayStation platinum headset has it’s own Sony made object based vss built in but I think only a few games support it.


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## SierraMadre (Aug 31, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> The PlayStation platinum headset has it’s own Sony made object based vss built in but I think only a few games support it.


The headset offers Sony’s house algorithm for conventional VSS for all games that utilise surround sound but it’s only some games, mostly exclusives, that combine with to offer  3D audio with height effects etc.

The PS5’s built in solution is rumoured to be system-wide and compatible with any headphones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

The "totl" Creative device hasn't been shown yet. Should be a matter of 1-2 months.


----------



## chateaucomblat

Dear Mad Lust Envy, Dear Head-Fi Community!

First of all thank you for the incredible guide, MLE!

I was wondering if you, or anyone else in the community has any experience with the *ATH-R70X* when it comes to fun/immersive (not competitive) gaming? 
There are conflicting opinions on the site, some say the soundstage is amazing, so find it obviously sub-par. 

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## SierraMadre (Sep 2, 2019)

chateaucomblat said:


> Dear Mad Lust Envy, Dear Head-Fi Community!
> 
> First of all thank you for the incredible guide, MLE!
> 
> ...


I have no direct experience of the r70x but it’s well known for having a balanced sound signature and as you are seeking immersion / ‘fun’ in gaming you might find it a bit bass-lite and most find bass to be key to immersion and fun to at least some degree. That doesn’t mean to say it has “bad” bass by any means just that you may not find it has enough of it to be sufficiently immersive for your gaming. YMMV so if you are intent on them then just order off Amazon and return if not to your liking.

That being said, if you haven’t already, you need to take into account the impedance. At 470 ohms it’s extremely high for headphones in a gaming scenario and also means that they won’t be any good for handheld devices like the Switch or your cellphone. If you are cool with that and already have an amp or sound card that you know can drive these for gaming, no problem. If you want to plug it directly into a Xbox One or DualShock controller though, forget it.
If you are intending on using a gaming dac/amp then you will be limited in choice by the relative lack of units that can drive such a high impedance set of cans. The Creative G6, X7 and Super XFi amp are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that are rated up to 600ohms.


----------



## dagerbil

Hi there - I  wonder if anyone can provide some expert help. 

I've been testing and looking for the best headphones for my PS4, primarily something to help with positional audio. I only really play COD including Blackout but any advantage would be good. Many Youtubers seem to know when someone is coming, and that's an advantage I've tried to buy but I've quickly found it's a bit of a Rabbit hole!

Firstly, so many people claim VSS is a gimmick and makes things worse. However I keep coming back to this forum and thread, and I get the sense that VSS is liked on here, and also that you guys seem to know your stuff better!

1) So my first question is really should I have this on or off?

I am also looking for the best DAC/AMP/VSS tool to use - I have had a DSS2, a Mixamp Pro TR and currently a Soundblaster G6 which I brought off the back of a review on this thread yesterday.

2) So my second question is which one is generally regarded as the best for positional audio?

Finally, my last question would be the best settings for the Soundblaster G6. I don't have a PC (I own a Mac) so unfortunately I can't mess with settings like I can the Mixamp where some decent presets can be found.

I have my PS4 set to output Dolby Digital and my G6 connected via Optical. I have tried it with SBX on/off but don't hear a massive difference - 

3) I assume with SBX off this is just the raw Dolby 5.1 sound and with SBX on it simply enhances it to be surround sound?

4) I have tried testing the stereo only but as others have mentioned you can't enable "direct mode" when connected to a PS4 - this is frustrating as I really wanted to hear the sound without any processing coming through a DAC/AMP. Is there any way to get this working?

5) Scout mode doesn't make as much difference when the PS4's out put is set to Dolby as it does when it's set to PCM- with PCM it seems to really make a difference (not necessarily for the better!).

Any help much appreciated! I am stuck in that Rabbit Hole!

PS: My headphones areHD 598 SR if that helps, again a purchase off the back of some reviews on here.


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## SierraMadre (Sep 2, 2019)

1. Depends on personal preference. I do not own or have experience of Black Ops 4 but things to note for gaming in general:

A lot of games do not have channel configuration in their audio settings, only volume sliders. Those games tend to rely on the source device (PS4 in your case) to tell them what channel configuration they can output (multichannel vs stereo). Other games offer channel options such as stereo, surround and sometimes output device options (speakers, headphones, TV, surround AV etc.). Those that offer a dedicated stereo headphone option often have some in-house VSS mixed in so will sound off if you try and apply a further VSS solution on top of it.

So it’s important that you choose a multichannel / surround audio setting if the game has one.

2. Again, depends on preference but Creative’s SBX VSS and Dolby headphone are the two most popular.

3. Given that the G6 is only licensed for DD5.1 decoding and does not have Dolby Headphone or any other Dolby VSS licensing, you need to have the Creative’s SBX VSS turned on for surround otherwise you’ll just be getting the DD5.1 downmixed into stereo.

4. I’m not sure that dDirect mode is really any different in effect to SBX-off, at least it wasn’t when I first got the device. In theory what it’s supposed to do is tell the source device that it’s stereo-only and thus extract an unprocessed stereo only feed when otherwise it would be getting multichannel Dolby because the source device recognises it as DD5.1 capable, but given that SBX-off turns off all processing anyway and downmixes  Dolby 5.1 to stereo, all you’re really doing is changing when and where the downmix takes place, on the PS4 side or on the G6 side. There’s probably some argument that when doing this, quality and latency would be better if the PS4 does it but in all honesty I’m not sure it would be noticeable and even if so, certainly not enough to provide any tactical advantage.

5. The difference here (assuming you have SBX on when using Dolby) is simply that you are applying scout mode to stereo vs scout mode w/ SBX VSS. Scout mode just emphasises highs and recesses other frequencies so as to make footsteps, bullets and other cues easier to recognise.

If you want to stick with Creative SBX and be able to adjust SBX and other settings without getting a PC, then return it and consider getting a Creative X7 (expensive) or if looking for something cheaper then the Creative recon 3D usb dac/amp both of these have software applications for the Mac while the X7 only has a mobile app for wireless configuration too meaning you could probably tweak while you play on PS4.
If you have not tweaked you SBX profile via a PC as of yet, your surround setting will likely be at default, and I forget whether that’s 33.3% or 66.6% (it’s a 0-100 dial).


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## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 2, 2019)

People who say VSS is a gimmick are people who listen to it for two seconds and hear how utterly different it is to what their ears are accustomed to. It's the same reason I will never believe in short demos of headphone impressions. Ears are like our eyes. They take time to adjust to your surroundings. You can't see in the dark when you first walk into a dark room, right? Then wait a bit and you can see a bit better. Same with ears. You wake up, and your hearing is super sensitive where you can hear a pindrop from a hundred feet away, but then later on, you'd have to be in the same room. Your ears have compensated.

People wonder why I'm positive on all types of headphone sounds. That's because I spend time with them and let my ears adapt to their specific sound. If I went from listening to the Ananda for days then go to the LCD-GX. I would not like the sound of the GX. And vice versa. You have to spend DAYS to saturate your ears with that kind of presentation that is a heavy contrast from the other.

How can something that only gives you left and right audio cues and merges between the two be better than something that gives you a 360 degree amount of audio information? With stereo there is some guesswork on where sounds are coming from. With VSS, you can literally close your eyes and know that something is behind you at 5 o' clock for example. Stereo doesn't have that,. It can't for example, differentiate something that is at 2 o' clock from something that is at 5 o' clock. So then you have to rely on visual cue to know. So no, I will never ever accept that stereo is better than VSS. AT raw audio fidelity, yes. But I'll take a hit to sound quality if it lets me know exactly which directions sounds are coming from as opposed to guesswork.

I guarantee if someone were to set up a test between myself listening to VSS and someone listening to plainb stereo with both having blindfold on, and being asked which direction sounds are coming from, I would be the first to point the direction everytime.


----------



## Fegefeuer

hm, yeah, Mad Lust Envy, yeah ok. If you had a good DAC, good amp, good cable like full silver then you would get best stereo soundstage and sipiration. Then good headphones with good breathing velour, angled earpads for better soundstage. Then you would feel all details and especially good treble information which draws the space and soundstage just in stereo. VSS not needed. If you close eyes you can feel music around you, 3D holographic and you would get startle effect, like jumpscares. Then you take headphones off and believe someone is in the room.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> hm, yeah, Mad Lust Envy, yeah ok. If you had a good DAC, good amp, good cable like full silver then you would get best stereo soundstage and sipiration. Then good headphones with good breathing velour, angled earpads for better soundstage. Then you would feel all details and especially good treble information which draws the space and soundstage just in stereo. VSS not needed. If you close eyes you can feel music around you, 3D holographic and you would get startle effect, like jumpscares. Then you take headphones off and believe someone is in the room.



  Even the Koss SC75 with a TOTL $50,000 dac and balanced amp can show how much separation, depth, and holographic realism the sound has compared to VSS.


----------



## SierraMadre (Sep 2, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> People who say VSS is a gimmick are people who listen to it for two seconds and hear how utterly different it is to what their ears are accustomed to. It's the same reason I will never believe in short demos of headphone impressions. Ears are like our eyes. They take time to adjust to your surroundings. You can't see in the dark when you first walk into a dark room, right? Then wait a bit and you can see a bit better. Same with ears. You wake up, and your hearing is super sensitive where you can hear a pindrop from a hundred feet away, but then later on, you'd have to be in the same room. Your ears have compensated.
> 
> People wonder why I'm positive on all types of headphone sounds. That's because I spend time with them and let my ears adapt to their specific sound. If I went from listening to the Ananda for days then go to the LCD-GX. I would not like the sound of the GX. And vice versa. You have to spend DAYS to saturate your ears with that kind of presentation that is a heavy contrast from the other.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of the criticism stems from those who don’t realise that they are often already listening to / using in-built VSS mixes (as many games these days offer but don’t specify) and mistake it for being “normal” stereo, therefore erroneously concluding that normal stereo must always be better than multichannel VSS.

Which brings me to a question, obviously hardware based VSS processing of discrete multichannel is better than plain old stereo for gaming, but when the game in question does offer an in-house VSS solution for headphones, what are your thoughts on this versus hardware-based VSS processing? Assuming dev competence, one would think that the dev-based non-hardware VSS is more likely to be better as the devs know their own game / sound design the best and can tailor the solution accordingly whereas the hardware solution seems more generic in application.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've not heard an in game solution that to me sounds better than hardware. None whatsoever, except maybe Hellblade, but only because that game was made with binaural audio in mind.

I'd venture that Overwatch's Dolby Atmos would also be good, but I haven't heard it myself.


----------



## headphonesonly

SierraMadre said:


> I think a lot of the criticism stems from those who don’t realise that they are often already listening to / using in-built VSS mixes (as many games these days offer but don’t specify) and mistake it for being “normal” stereo, therefore erroneously concluding that normal stereo must always be better than multichannel VSS.
> 
> Which brings me to a question, obviously hardware based VSS processing of discrete multichannel is better than plain old stereo for gaming, but when the game in question does offer an in-house VSS solution for headphones, what are your thoughts on this versus hardware-based VSS processing? Assuming dev competence, one would think that the dev-based non-hardware VSS is more likely to be better as the devs know their own game / sound design the best and can tailor the solution accordingly whereas the hardware solution seems more generic in application.


Hardware VSS is more consistent than a games built in vss.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've not heard an in game solution that to me sounds better than hardware. None whatsoever, except maybe Hellblade, but only because that game was made with binaural audio in mind.
> 
> I'd venture that Overwatch's Dolby Atmos would also be good, but I haven't heard it myself.


Do you normally bother to try them? Or only when the in-house VSS is specifically remarked upon in media coverage etc. (as was the case with Hellblade and Overwatch). 
This is not a challenge btw, I am really just curious. I rarely try the in-built solutions myself except in circumstances similar to the aforementioned (where the in-built headphone audio has been specifically emphasised in marketing, media coverage and/or community impressions) and instead usually just go with hardware VSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I always try them, because being able to use an audiophile dac/amp with a game's internal solution would logically sound better than gaming dac/amps. So I'm waiting for the day where we won't need something like a Creative or Astro Mixamp to get VSS, and instead it comes in the systems by default. Would make my life much easier. The XB1 has Atmos, but the XB1 is the one current gen system I DON'T use.


----------



## SierraMadre (Sep 2, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I always try them, because being able to use an audiophile dac/amp with a game's internal solution would logically sound better than gaming dac/amps. So I'm waiting for the day where we won't need something like a Creative or Astro Mixamp to get VSS, and instead it comes in the systems by default. Would make my life much easier. The XB1 has Atmos, but the XB1 is the one current gen system I DON'T use.


Good to know! PS5 will have it, obviously whatever next Xbox too. Dunno about whatever next Nintendo console though given how thrifty they are about such features.

One more thing I’d like your opinion on, if you’d be so kind:

With the usual caveat of everybody’s HRTF and preferences being different etc., all other things being relatively equal, is it possible that closed backs and/or planars might lend themselves better to center and rear channel depth?

Context:

The most speaker-like out-of-my-head depth for the rear and, in particular, the center channel, that I ever got out of a VSS solution was with the Mobius. Unfortunately I had to return it as the combination of the relative thinness of the pads with the extreme squishiness of the foam in my particular unit meant that I had to return it as my ears touched the driver casing.

Since then, I have tried a few solutions using other headphones that one would think would result in as good or better results given the headphones used (AKG K7XX, Sennheiser HD800S etc.)

- Waves NX (same VSS as Mobius) via the Waves NX headtracker with relevant headphone compensation profiles applied via Hesuvi, and the same personalised head circumference and inter-aural arc measurements dialled in to the Waves control app as were used with Mobius control app. The only difference in implementation with the Mobius is that there is no ambience / room effect slider and only 3 content presets (movie, normal and voice).

- Creative Super X-Fi Amp with face mapped profile and relevant SXFI certified headphone compensation profile (also tried / compared Hesuvi headphone compensation profiles)

- Atmos for headphone and various other solutions (I also own a Creative G6, SteelSeries Gamedac, Astro mixamp). 

The only major solution I have not tried is Sennheiser GSX.
So if I can’t get as good or better center and rear depth out of a HD800S when using more or less the same implementation of VSS as the Mobius or when using the much lauded Super X-FI, I am led to wonder whether closed back and/or planar drivers might be the differentiating factor?
Unfortunately, as I no longer have the Mobius, I don’t have any planars on hand to test nor do I have any closed backs of a comparable quality to the AKG K7xx or Sennheiser HD800s. 
The only other possible explanation that I can think of as to why Waves NX on the Mobius provided better center and rear depth than the HD800s with the Waves Headtracker would be due to the Waves NX control app’s lack of a room effect control slider but it’s not like I was maxing that out with the Mobius, in fact I pretty much always left it at default (around 30% I think?) or sometimes even less. 

Thanks in advance


----------



## Find the Door

Was there ever a fix for the popping noises on the X7 that occur when playing a game with a 5.1 track? It's especially frustrating and immersion breaking.

Why has Creative still not fixed this after all this time? Is there some kind of work around?

Happens whether or not I use my amp (Jotunheim) or not.

Also if they haven't is there another unit as compatible with consoles like x7 that's available as an alternative?


----------



## illram (Sep 2, 2019)

dagerbil said:


> Hi there - I  wonder if anyone can provide some expert help.
> 
> I've been testing and looking for the best headphones for my PS4, primarily something to help with positional audio. I only really play COD including Blackout but any advantage would be good. Many Youtubers seem to know when someone is coming, and that's an advantage I've tried to buy but I've quickly found it's a bit of a Rabbit hole!
> 
> ...



I've used both the G6 and X7 with Blackout, and other COD games, for thousands of hours on Xbox. VSS with this game is a "must-have" and I would never, ever play without it. On the console, DD 5.1 is your only option as the game lacks its own VSS or object based audio solution, so things like the G6, Mixamp, or X7 are your only choices on PS4 or Xbox. Audio on Blackout is absolutely critical and I can pinpoint footstep and gunshot direction with the X7 with a very high level of accuracy. Also Blackout in stereo mode is pretty terrible as they have pretty bad channel separation issues (e.g. noises tend to just flood one channel vs the other.)  If you tried it and did not hear a difference, my first guess would be your G6 simply is not set correctly. It's annoying you need a PC to fiddle with its settings. If you can get your G6 to a PC to check it somehow I would recommend that first. If you verify it is set up and it still does not work for you, the generic HRTF algorithm that SBX uses may just not fit your ear type. Generic HRTF solutions are dependent on your ears and headphones not being too far off the generic measurements they use for their algorithms.

What Blackout is still missing, and what none of these solutions will provide, is vertical audio cues. E.g. up/down. So if you get annoyed at the Construction site with not being able to tell if those loud footsteps are above, below, or right next to you, none of these are going to help with that. They will only tell you audio cues on a 2D plane. This is an issue with the ancient audio engine they recycle every year with COD. Drives me crazy.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

The Grado White is supposed to be arriving today. I only get a week with it, so I'm gonna have to rush a few things, but I'll try and get it going.

Hopefully hurricane Dorian doesn't decide to veer left towards Orlando and cause power outages, because then there's no way I'm gonna have a proper review out.

Guys, I have a problem with the first page not letting me add any more reviews because of a 40 image limit. Any suggestions as to what to do?

Perhaps get rid of all the ancient non-reviews and put them all in a separate post to free up space, get rid of in review images just for the first page, and I dunno what else...

EDIT: I was able to add the GX review to the first pagem, but had to remove all the in review images. If you guys want the full version with the images, click on the 'review first posted here' link in the review.


----------



## debugman

Mad Lust Envy said:


> People who say VSS is a gimmick are people who listen to it for two seconds and hear how utterly different it is to what their ears are accustomed to. It's the same reason I will never believe in short demos of headphone impressions. Ears are like our eyes. They take time to adjust to your surroundings. You can't see in the dark when you first walk into a dark room, right? Then wait a bit and you can see a bit better. Same with ears. You wake up, and your hearing is super sensitive where you can hear a pindrop from a hundred feet away, but then later on, you'd have to be in the same room. Your ears have compensated.
> 
> People wonder why I'm positive on all types of headphone sounds. That's because I spend time with them and let my ears adapt to their specific sound. If I went from listening to the Ananda for days then go to the LCD-GX. I would not like the sound of the GX. And vice versa. You have to spend DAYS to saturate your ears with that kind of presentation that is a heavy contrast from the other.



I can't talk about all VSS as I only have experience with one: Turtle Beach DSS and I use the Philips SHP9500. I believe that in some games it sounds better than others, but in all games the stereo sounds better and more clear.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> How can something that only gives you left and right audio cues and merges between the two be better than something that gives you a 360 degree amount of audio information? With stereo there is some guesswork on where sounds are coming from. With VSS, you can literally close your eyes and know that something is behind you at 5 o' clock for example. Stereo doesn't have that,. It can't for example, differentiate something that is at 2 o' clock from something that is at 5 o' clock. So then you have to rely on visual cue to know. So no, I will never ever accept that stereo is better than VSS. AT raw audio fidelity, yes. But I'll take a hit to sound quality if it lets me know exactly which directions sounds are coming from as opposed to guesswork.
> 
> I guarantee if someone were to set up a test between myself listening to VSS and someone listening to plainb stereo with both having blindfold on, and being asked which direction sounds are coming from, I would be the first to point the direction everytime.



But there are two speakers on a headphone in either ways, stereo or VSS, so I can't agree with you on this argument. I can clearly hear directional sounds in stereo because there are more ways to make you hear surround sounds other than what is called VSS.

I think the guy in this video explain it quite well:


----------



## mindbomb

SierraMadre said:


> I think a lot of the criticism stems from those who don’t realise that they are often already listening to / using in-built VSS mixes (as many games these days offer but don’t specify) and mistake it for being “normal” stereo, therefore erroneously concluding that normal stereo must always be better than multichannel VSS.



Well, that reminds me of a big pet peeve of mine, when people cite the virtual barbershop video as evidence that they don't need virtual surround sound, with no understanding that a binaural recording only has good positional audio because it naturally has hrtf, and that the only way to get hrtf in games may be to use the combo of surround sound output + virtual surround sound dsp.

But I find the biggest problem is actually the opposite - people assuming the default game mix is ideal for headphone users. When I tell people that adding processing can add directional information, either through an in game hrtf option or through virtual surround sound, people can't understand how that is possible, and start acting like I had told them they could download more ram. Of course, the reason why it works is that when you convert to plain stereo audio without hrtf, much spatial information is lost, and when you use vss or in game hrtf, you can replace that conversion with something that uses hrtf to stuff more information into the audio for headphone users.


----------



## mindbomb

debugman said:


> But there are two speakers on a headphone in either ways, stereo or VSS, so I can't agree with you on this argument. I can clearly hear directional sounds in stereo because there are more ways to make you hear surround sounds other than what is called VSS.



This is a little like saying "well, you only have two eyes, so a 2d movie and a 3d movie must both have great depth". When one medium is exploiting giving differential information to the two sensory organs, and the other isn't, there will be consequences.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*"PAINFULLY HONEST TECH"*

More like painfully uninformed.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

debugman said:


> I can't talk about all VSS as I only have experience with one: Turtle Beach DSS and I use the Philips SHP9500. I believe that in some games it sounds better than others, but in all games the stereo sounds better and more clear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Have you ever heard VSS versus stereo? Yes we only have two ears, but does everything in the world sound like stereo to you? NO.

VSS is attempting to relay audio information the way our ears naturally pick up sounds. Stereo does not do that. It simply blasts audio from one side to the other. It does not take in spatial information, like distance, room reflections, etc.

You only have two ears, and yet you KNOW when someone is behind you because of how the sound they make reaches your ears.

I can't believe I even have to argue about this.

Virtual surround might be VIRTUAL, but it is mimicking the way a dummy head picks up audio from a room with speakers. There is information there that stereo will never, EVER pick up or relay to you.


----------



## debugman

mindbomb said:


> This is a little like saying "well, you only have two eyes, so a 2d movie and a 3d movie must both have great depth". When one medium is exploiting giving differential information to the two sensory organs, and the other isn't, there will be consequences.



No, what I meant is more like saying there are more than one way of showing you a 3d movie.



Fegefeuer said:


> *"PAINFULLY HONEST TECH"*
> 
> More like painfully uninformed.



What did he say that was uninformed?

Maybe it depends on a combo of things, like the game itself, and it sounds options, obviously the VSS implementation and maybe its just individual preference.  I don't know for sure until I will experience more.


----------



## debugman

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Have you ever heard VSS versus stereo? Yes we only have two ears, but does everything in the world sound like stereo to you? NO.
> 
> VSS is attempting to relay audio information the way our ears naturally pick up sounds. Stereo does not do that. It simply blasts audio from one side to the other. It does not take in spatial information, like distance, room reflections, etc.
> 
> ...



In the end of the day, I hear exactly where a sound is coming from in my DSS in both modes, but with bypass it sounds better in PUBG and in Apex Legends.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Anyways, I don't have time to go through this old argument that comes up on a regular basis. Some people just can't grasp how it is actually STEREO on a headphone that is much more fake than virtual surround. Our ears don't pick up sounds from just one ear or the other. It is UNNATURAL to hear sounds the way stereo headphones provide them to you. So in reality, virtual surround is more natural than stereo will ever be. The only problem is that VSS adds extra layers of processing which makes it less ideal than stereo in terms of pure audio fidelity. So you sacrifice pristine audio for a more realistic sense of spacce the way our ears tend to hear our surroundings.

I'm in the process of converting all my old images on the first page to google photo links so as not to lose them, as I know google ain't gonna go under any time soon and cause broken links. So stop distracting me, guys.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm gonna have to make some hard choices, and start removing some things that no longer exist like the Victor SU-DH1 from the guide. I'm running to some image limits in both hosting and as attachments. Sacrifices must be made.


----------



## Fegefeuer

If it's possible for the Admins to put a new post below the OP you could split the content in two posts. Does the forum software allow this?


----------



## AxelCloris

It does not.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

I could put the old stuff in my second post. Is there anyway, you can remove the post above my second post? I mean it's kinda old, and inconsequential, and canoners hasn't posted in 7 years. I'll edit my second post with the non-headphone gear...


----------



## AxelCloris

We've done something similar in the past, but it will require the permission of the person who made the post. I'll reach out to them in PM.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Could remove 2 and 4. It's from the same guy. Then you have good headroom for the future.


----------



## illram (Sep 3, 2019)

debugman said:


> I can't talk about all VSS as I only have experience with one: Turtle Beach DSS and I use the Philips SHP9500. I believe that in some games it sounds better than others, but in all games the stereo sounds better and more clear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Did you watch the video? He doesn't say that VSS does not work. (And his title is click baity silliness.) The fact of the matter is if a game offers no VSS or HRTF-simulating audio option, and you are stuck with its straight left/right stereo audio, you are  beholden to that game's audio engineers as to how well you are going to be able to discern surround cues. That's all this guy is saying. So what you are saying is if all stereo sounds better to you _even for directionality_, you are basically claiming that all stereo implementations in all the games you have ever played are better than the 5.1/7.1 surround mixes and all of the different virtual surround implementations you can use to try and get that surround sound awesomeness in your headphones. Which most people are going to be dubious of since usually, based on experience straight stereo isn't going to be very good versus a well implemented virtual surround solution. I don't know, maybe you only play a handful of games which for some reason have terrible surround implementations? Or maybe your current VSS solution is junk and you don't have an adequate comparison? I am not familiar with the Turtle Beach (and am too lazy to see for the purposes of this post if MLE reviewed it.)

But nothing in that video says VSS does not work, or is fake, its click bait title aside. My guess is you have for whatever reason succumbed to the echo chamber of misinformed online comments on this topic. "bUT yOu onLY hAVE tWO eARs!!!11" etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In any case, I've edited the second post with everything not headphone related. I'll update the guide to reflect this.


----------



## Fegefeuer

People often also forget that the sensation of sound perception in cinema and games does not only rely on visual cues. You have to be able to perceive audio also when you are not looking. 

Standard Stereo gaming works because the brain compensates a lot for it with what it sees on the screen and how it attaches the sound information to it. If you close your eyes it's even more obvious that positional information and tracing it is far superior on VSS and proper geometry based binaural models than standard stereo.
This is how audio should be designed. Give you proper positional information, especially on elevation. That's the only way you will approximate "real life". It's why VR relies on 3D Audio/geometry based audio, fundamentally. 

"3D Audio" > 7.1 VSS > standard stereo gaming


----------



## mindbomb (Sep 4, 2019)

debugman said:


> No, what I meant is more like saying there are more than one way of showing you a 3d movie.


So in the video, he says there are 3 ways to get good directional audio. Virtual surround sound, binaural recordings, and then he says traditional stereo is also capable of it. Let me break down the problems with this. First, he is correct that binaural recordings offer headphone users a way to have great directional audio. The problem is that, for the average person, probably 0% of the content they listen to in a given year is binaural recordings. The only example of it in gaming is Hellblade, and then only select parts of the game have it.



debugman said:


> In the end of the day, I hear exactly where a sound is coming from in my DSS in both modes, but with bypass it sounds better in PUBG and in Apex Legends.



This brings me to the next part, which is the false equivalence between virtual surround sound/hrtf and plain stereo audio. The positional audio is going to be worse with plain stereo, and part of the reason people here are palpably frustrated is that it is demonstrably worse - like you can find videos of people comparing different virtual surround sound and plain stereo on youtube, like this old video featuring bf4:


It may shock you that I am making such a bold claim like this, but the reason I can is simple. In traditional stereo, only left and right is specified. This is what is causing problems with the directions of front and back, particularly noticeable when the mouse is not being moved from side to side. If we define virtual surround sound as the use of hrtf to artificially manipulate the perception of the direction of sounds on headphones, then the only way for the game to solve this problem is by incorporating virtual surround sound itself. This has actually happened in some instances, perhaps most notably with Overwatch, which has licenced dolby atmos for headphones from dolby. But this has also happened in PUBG, as the hrtf option is virtual surround sound, which was added to the game after demand from the community. In fact, look at this video comparing hrtf vs stereo in pubg, and keep in mind what I said earlier about front vs back on stereo.


Prior to the introduction of the hrtf option, the only way to avoid the problems with directional audio on stereo was for the end user to apply virtual surround sound processing himself. Now you may say, "well, then I guess I don't need virtual surround sound because the game can always do it for me, right?". Well no. The other game you mentioned, Apex Legends, one of the most popular games out right now, lacks any in game hrtf. However, you can avoid problems with directional audio on stereo in this game by utilizing virtual surround sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2019)

Ok, so I THINK I got most of the attachments moved, and images replaced, so I should have some free space available for the first post.

I had to get rid of a few outdated things like how to connect the DSS to old gen systems, etc. If someone wants to update the diagrams, and put them all in one big image file, I'll more than happily add that to the guide. Just not various images, but all in one so as to not waste images on it.

Currently listening to the Grado White. Very interesting change from what I have in the house, so I need some time. It is missing the sub bass quite noticeably when next to the EDXX. Expected of Grado, I suppose. It's very good in every other aspects so far.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Anyway. *Project Accent *aka the most likely *X7 successor* was targeted for Q3 2019. We might hear about it starting Friday@IFA 2019

to remind you: https://sg.creative.com/upgrade/


----------



## dandiego

Fegefeuer said:


> Anyway. *Project Accent *aka the most likely *X7 successor* was targeted for Q3 2019. We might hear about it starting Friday@IFA 2019
> 
> to remind you: https://sg.creative.com/upgrade/



Unless the X3 is Project Accent. It appears to have the same physical shape and features listed on Creative's "upgrade" page.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very interesting that they're releasing the SXFI Theater whiuch seems to be like the Air but with 2.4ghz wireless instead of Bluetooth. That would make it much better for gaming wirelessly, unlike the Air which is definitely not meant for wireless gaming, but usb instead.

Definitely looks like the SoundBlaster X3 is what Project Accent looks to be...

https://www.vortez.net/news_story/c..._blaster_x3_and_sxfi_theater_at_ifa_2019.html


----------



## dakanao

Even with my Chord Mojo connected to my xbox 360 running stereo with my 300 ohm Sennheiser HD 540 Gold (excellent headphone for positiong), I get a lot better 3D imaging with just the Turtle Beach DSS alone with the HD 540 Gold.


----------



## SierraMadre

So Project Auris I and II, specifically touted as being for PS4 and Switch, mention only USB and not virtual surround, let alone SXFI. I wonder whether they have given up on making SXFI work with Dolby Digital until the new consoles come out.


----------



## debugman (Sep 4, 2019)

illram said:


> Did you watch the video? He doesn't say that VSS does not work. (And his title is click baity silliness.) The fact of the matter is if a game offers no VSS or HRTF-simulating audio option, and you are stuck with its straight left/right stereo audio, you are  beholden to that game's audio engineers as to how well you are going to be able to discern surround cues. That's all this guy is saying. So what you are saying is if all stereo sounds better to you _even for directionality_, you are basically claiming that all stereo implementations in all the games you have ever played are better than the 5.1/7.1 surround mixes and all of the different virtual surround implementations you can use to try and get that surround sound awesomeness in your headphones. Which most people are going to be dubious of since usually, based on experience straight stereo isn't going to be very good versus a well implemented virtual surround solution. I don't know, maybe you only play a handful of games which for some reason have terrible surround implementations? Or maybe your current VSS solution is junk and you don't have an adequate comparison? I am not familiar with the Turtle Beach (and am too lazy to see for the purposes of this post if MLE reviewed it.)
> 
> But nothing in that video says VSS does not work, or is fake, its click bait title aside. My guess is you have for whatever reason succumbed to the echo chamber of misinformed online comments on this topic. "bUT yOu onLY hAVE tWO eARs!!!11" etc.



I never said VSS doesn't work, and I posted the video because he explained that there are more ways to make the listener to hear directional/"surround" sounds. I am sure you guys know more about all that.

I didn't say stereo sounds better for directionality, only the sound itself. But, I said maybe it depends on the game and/or VSS device

And I did mention that maybe because I only played with a handful of games and only used one VSS device, so I can't say that VSS is worse for sure.

I just didn't agree with MDE that with VSS he will hear directional and with stereo he will not.


----------



## Lay.

When the day comes that I can plug my proper DAC/AMP (Sorry Sound Blaster and other...) straight to my Playstation and have a good directional audio without any external VSS device, I will be among the first people to toss out the extra VSS hardware. 

In the meanwhile I enjoy using my Sound BlasterX G6 (VSS optical out to my DAC/AMP).


----------



## debugman

mindbomb said:


> So in the video, he says there are 3 ways to get good directional audio. Virtual surround sound, binaural recordings, and then he says traditional stereo is also capable of it. Let me break down the problems with this. First, he is correct that binaural recordings offer headphone users a way to have great directional audio. The problem is that, for the average person, probably 0% of the content they listen to in a given year is binaural recordings. The only example of it in gaming is Hellblade, and then only select parts of the game have it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I play on PS4, so I am not sure if there is hrtf or not.

About Apex, I don't know for sure, but maybe the headphones I have, Philips SHP9500 with open backs and good sound stage help with the directional audio.


----------



## Fegefeuer

dandiego said:


> Unless the X3 is Project Accent. It appears to have the same physical shape and features listed on Creative's "upgrade" page.



Damn, I missed this. Could be true. Would be a damn shame. :[]


----------



## stavros.m

I know this is a gaming headset but has anyone tried the new Hyper X Orbit, and what are your thoughts,  a cheaper option then the Mobius

thanks


----------



## Zaphyre

Has Creative not mentioned anything more about that HDMI TV box which would allow you to use the Super X-FI stuff with your TV?

That seemed kind of interesting from the stand point you'd maybe be able to get uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 from HDMI devices unlike the current optical solutions.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, I remember that. Let's wait and see. IFA starts this Friday.


----------



## SierraMadre (Sep 4, 2019)

Exactly what I want. I mean if applying SXFI to Dolby is problematic, surely HDMI is the way to go as it would allow SXFI to process multichannel PCM (as it already does via for PC via USB) from all major consoles, even the Switch.


----------



## mindbomb

debugman said:


> About Apex, I don't know for sure, but maybe the headphones I have, Philips SHP9500 with open backs and good sound stage help with the directional audio.



This is apples and oranges. What people like me are advocating for is the use of hrtf or virtual surround sound as a means to preserve directional information from the game in the digital domain. Even if you had great headphones, if information is lost at an earlier stage, the headphones can't recover it.


----------



## mindbomb (Sep 4, 2019)

I'm hearing that dts headphone x  for windows spatial sound features headphone equalization profiles for most popular headphone models as well as two different room settings. Watch out dolby!


----------



## Find the Door

Is it possible that I'm over powering the HD800S? I have the X7 set as high gain (but I don't believe that it's a factor due to amp I have hooked up) I then have the Jotunheim in High gain as well and tune the volume to my liking.

I'm on PS4 PRO


----------



## debugman

Yethal said:


> Hi, I created this diagram. Didn't use the dss personally, I drew it based on post of another user who showed us the trick with the syba adapter. No idea who it was this was years ago.



Is there another way, with a mixer or something, that I can achieve the functionality of controlling game and chat volume separately?


----------



## Yethal

debugman said:


> Is there another way, with a mixer or something, that I can achieve the functionality of controlling game and chat volume separately?


With an analog mixer, yes.


----------



## debugman

Yethal said:


> With an analog mixer, yes.



Can't seem to find a cheap one that good for headphones


----------



## mrhanky5555

Thanks


----------



## Yethal

debugman said:


> Can't seem to find a cheap one that good for headphones


Yeah, this is why we've been using Mixamps and Creative X7 all this time.


----------



## Forty0z

So is the newest mixamp tr the best way to chat with friends connect to my pc to watch youtube and listen to music at the same time? I use hyper x sennheiser game zero and other headsets/headphones. 
I'm just trying to make my setup easy. I'm not worried about wires. Just easy chat good sound.


----------



## debugman

Yethal said:


> Yeah, this is why we've been using Mixamps and Creative X7 all this time.



Which mixamp version should I get? the new one is way too expensive and I read that some of the older ones have problem, but I am not sure which one.


----------



## anicai

Those of you who are using Sennheiser HD 58X with Sound BlasterX G6 (if there are any of you), could you share your best SBX settings for singleplayer games like AC Odyssey and similar? I recently bought G6 and I'm looking for the best settings.

Also, for the G6 owners, does your device switch to direct mode by itself? Mine does it every other day, when I open player or start playing something it just switches to direct mode and I have to restart the PC for it to work the way I want to. I don't know what may be causing this problem.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Have you updated the G6? That is very important to knock off a lot of kinks that the G6 had for quite some time. Back then, settings would definitely switch by themselves. @anicai

https://support.creative.com/downloads/welcome.aspx?nLanguageLocale=1033&nDriverType=0#type_0

As for me, I personally use 100% surround, as SBX is the least offensive surround process in terms of room size. The bigger the space, the better it is to get some distance between you and the sound cues, and the G6 doesn't add the kind of reverb that things like Dolby Headphone and GSX do when maxed out. AT the very least, I personally recommend anything above 67% and above.


I'm currently finishing up most of the Grado White review, so I'll hopefully have it done by tomorrow and ready to upload. Wednesday at the latest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 9, 2019)

To the select  few of my people, I currently have the Grado White rough draft up for you guys to read.

To everyone else here, again, the final version will be up hopefully tomorrow if not Wednesday. Just gotta go through the editing and fixes, etc. I'm tired for tonight and don't have the mind to finish atm.

After the Grado white, I don't have any other headphone lined up, but I MIGHT actually make a special post with my picks in 2019 (based off my own experiences, which may have some discontinued products, because I can't keep up with the times, lol).


----------



## Inspectre

I don't know if I've said it before, but thanks for this guide, it's an incredible resource!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Inspectre said:


> I don't know if I've said it before, but thanks for this guide, it's an incredible resource!



It is indeed, I read it a while ago and enjoyed it a lot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Inspectre said:


> I don't know if I've said it before, but thanks for this guide, it's an incredible resource!


I'm glad it's helped out people in some way or another. 

I know I can be a bit of an arsehat at times, but I really don't mean to be.


----------



## anicai

@Mad Lust Envy Yes, I installed the latest firmware and driver. When I select SBX in Sound Blaster Connect software, the appropriate button on the device lights up, but when I open player or start testing surround sound in software it switches to direct mode - the scout button starts blinking though in the Connect app says that the SBX is on. This is fixed only by restarting PC, no other solution works.

I used around 70% surround, but I had difficulty differentiating rear channels, it seemed like the sound was coming directly from behind me. Setting the surround to 100% helped, it's a bit better now. Should I also set 7.1 in both Windows sound settings and Connect app? And do you use any other setting beside Surround, like Cristalizer, Dialog+?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno how to fix your resetting problem. As for the other stuff, I ONLY use SBX on, surround 100%, all other options disabled. Iset the G6 to 7.1. If using the G6 headphone out, under Setup Output Mode, set that to Audio Effects. If using an external dac, set Speaker Output Mode to Audio Effects as well, with apply headphone virtualization box checked. Don't set anything under setup as Direct. I would just uncheck headphone virtualization when not using Surround, instead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 10, 2019)

----------
----------

*Grado WH1 'The White Headphone'

 *
$795 as of September 2019 (limited until end of 2019)
*Where to buy: TTVJ Audio

Review First Posted HERE.*

*Disclaimer: A special thanks to Todd at TTVJ Audio for sending these out for quick impressions and review as part of a loaner tour. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.*

As mentioned in the above disclaimer, Grado's WH1 'The White Headphone' sent to me was part of a loaner tour by TTVJ Audio. I reached out directly to TTVJ Audio as I was very interested in hearing what Grado had to offer in the higher end market. I'll be brutally honest in saying my reasons for wanting to try the Grado White was mainly due to it being the cheapest Grado headphone built with the big ear pads by default. Somewhat of a shallow reason, but after having briefly owned the wireless Grado GW100, I also wanted to see what a full fledged Grado with comfortable pads had to offer. I really enjoyed my short time with the GW100, but the comfort level wasn't where I needed it to be. I had also purchased aftermarket big bowl pads for it, but unfortunately, it negatively impacted the GW100's enjoyable sound. It simply wasn't made for those pads.

I'm not quite sure what Grado wants this headphone to be called, as I see WH1 in some places, 'The White Headphone' in others, and a combination of both randomly sprinkled throughout the internet. For sanity's sake, I'll make my own moniker and simply just call it the Grado White. At the very least, a search of Grado White online will help you find it anywhere it's mentioned. You're welcome. 

The Grado White is a headphone available for an extremely limited amount of time (up to the end of 2019), and thus falls out of what I'd normally consider for review, as I doubt most of the gaming community I'm part of is likely to get a pair within the short period of availability. In any case, a stipulation of the loaner tour is to put out some impressions, and asides from that, I feel it's worth discussing at least what to expect from a big boy Grado.

Before I start, keep in mind that I didn't have my usual length of period when it comes to my review process, so I can't claim the same level of 'quality' as my other, full fledged reviews. I tried my best with the limited amount of time I had on hand to make something presentable, accurate, and reflective of my own thoughts and impressions, so please be aware of this as you read on. Let's start with the build.



*Build Quality:*​
Grado tends to keep it simple with their designs, aesthetics, build, and parts used. The White is no exception. You won't mistake the White for any other headphones from other manufacturers. It is 100% Grado. It is what I'd consider classically retro. One could argue that there is room for improvement in some aspects, but you have to commend Grado for sticking with their very distinct, personal style.


*Headband:*

The headband is incredibly minimalistic, which I honestly really like. No excess fluff or material used. A piece of flat metal, wrapped in black leather with white stitching. Classically dressed, with a sense of simple beauty. There is little in the way of padding underneath. I have always said you don't need much padding if the headband wraps around the head properly without having a hot spot on top of the head. The White's headband does just that, without any real point comfort issues. Could it use some extra padding where the headband rest on the head? Sure, but it's really no big deal to me, personally.

The headband is attach to a very basic, black, plastic pieces with L and R indicators. If there was one area that I feel could use better materials, it's these pieces. They just look cheap and betrays what one typically expects from a headphone at this price range.

These two pieces hold the classic Grado metal rods with plastic caps. I like how minimalistic and seemingly weightless the rods appear, though they allow the cups to rotate freely, which can be problematic for the cables. If you know Grado headphones, you know what to expect here. In any case, the rods allow for just enough size extension to fit my large head. There is no size indicator, and the cups slide up and down with minimal force. They retain their position with enough grip, though I don't quite know if they would remain this way after a long period of wear and tear. The metal gimbals don't allow the cups too much adjustment, but should be enough to allow the pads to rest properly on most head shapes.


*Cups:*

The cups are maple wood painted in white, and are extremely lightweight, despite being comically large compared to the GW100 I experienced. The outer "platter" is visually pleasing, though be wary of nicks and scuffs. The demo unit on hand already shows some slight wood pitting, scuffs and nicks. The surface of the platter has the very simple Grado labelling, and in the center of each cup is a quarter sized ventilation opening with mesh cover. You can see through the hollow chamber to the other side, showcasing the openness of the White headphone.


*Pads:*

The White is one of the very few Grado headphones that comes with the G cushion big bowl ear pads. Arguably known as the most comfortable of all Grado pads, with good reason. The pads are quite large and envelop the sides of your head, though your ears will still touch the inner surface of the pads, so they aren't quite over ear. Mostly, but not completely. The pads are also quite easy to install or remove. The material used is a somewhat firm foam, which may be itchy at first, though with some use will more or less disappear on the head.


*Cable:*

On the bottom of each cup is where the attached cables are located. Unfortunately, there is no visible strain relief. The cables just disappear into each cup. I hope Grado gets with the times and brings out headphones with detachable cables in the near future. There is little excuse to not do this nowadays, especially with how incredibly easy it is for Grado headphone cables to kink and twist due to the unrestricted rotation of the cups.

The black cable is quite thick, particularly where the two sides join. The cable terminates into a 3.5mm plug with snap on 1/4" adapter. The barrel is quite chunky and will more than likely keep the White from being used used with phones that have covers.

I didn't measure the length of the cable, but my money would put it between 1.5m-2m. Not very long.


*Final Build Impressions:*

Visually speaking, I really like the Grado White. Just simple, retro-classical design, with a very little in the way of materials used.

Physically speaking, there is room for improvement, as it could've used a little more padding underneath the headband, as well as moved towards detachable cables. The plug could also stand to be shaved down a bit to allow more versatility in what devices you can connect it too, though I doubt many people are gonna walk around with such a large headphone attached to their portable devices.

I'm also not a fan of the unrestricted cup rotation which will undoubtedly cause problems for the cable down the line (it already has some permanent kinks). Though this is a problem with Grado headphones in general. All in all, I believe if you have ever experienced a Grado headphone, you know all the classic quirks associated with their design, for better or worse.


*Comfort*​
Grado headphones aren't typically what I'd associate with 'comfort'. After having briefly owned the GW100, and tested various Grado pads with it, I understood why. It all comes down to the pads and clamping force. That being said, it really depends on the model, as the higher end models with G cushion pads circumvent the lower end Grado weaknesses in terms of comfort. Let's start with weight.


*Weight:*

I don't see any published numbers in terms of weight for the Grado White, but I certainly don't feel it's necessary. The Grado White is _incredibly_ light. I believe Grado headphones are known to be light, with the exception of their Prestige line which uses some pretty heavy metallic materials on their cups. The Grado White is so light, I doubt anyone will find any issue with wearing them all day in this regard. Fantastic indeed.


*Headband:*

As I mentioned earlier, the Grado White doesn't have much in the way of headband padding. Thankfully, the headband wraps around the head properly, keeping it from causing uncomfortable hotspots on top of the head. This, paired with the light weight of the headband, make headband comfort mostly a non-issue. It can be improved with some extra padding underneath, but it's far from necessary.


*Ear Pads:*

Let me start off with my experiences with the GW100. Despite the pads on the GW100 being nice and soft, there's only so much on-ear headphones can do in terms of comfort. They will press down on the ears causing a pinching sensation which will almost always be a problem for most people. The only Grado pads that I feel can pass a long term comfort test would be their G cushions, which the White thankfully uses. While the G cushions are on the firm side, they remain incredibly comfortable where they rest on the head. The only points of discomfort may an itchy feeling due to the exposed foam, as well as the pads not fully enveloping the ears, causing the tips to rest on the inner pad surface. It's much better than a true on-ear pad, but not as ideal as pads that wouldn't press on the ear tips. That being said, it only lightly touches the ear tips as opposed to pressing in towards the ears uncomfortably. After having used the White for a bit, I was fully accustomed to the ear pads, and could wear the White all day with very few breaks of adjustment.


*Clamp:*

Due to the White used being a demo unit, I can't say for certain if the clamp level is what is expected out of the box, or if there was some adjustment and break in prior to receiving the demo pair. I've heard that there may be a need to stretch the headband out to relieve some clamping force. From my experience with the demo unit, I found clamp force to be moderate to light, and overall near perfect to my head. Clamp isn't an area of discomfort for me with the White. If it had been, I would've definitely suggested stretching them out as the headband seems easy to adjust clamping force to your personal preference.


*Final Comfort Impressions:*

Overall, if I could simply sum up the Grado White's comfort with one word, it'd be 'great'. Its incredibly light heft, moderately light clamping force, big ear pads, and good weight distributing headband, all add up to a headphone I could wear all day without much complaint. If the headband was slightly more padded, and the ear pads could've fully enveloped the ears without touching the tips, the Grado White would've likely been among my absolute favorite headphones in terms of comfort.



*Noise Control*​
It should come as no surprise that the Grado White is a far from ideal in terms of noise control. Fully open-backed drivers will never be good at sound isolation, the White being no exception. If you're getting a headphone this open, then you shouldn't be surprised at the lack of sound isolation. You'll want to keep your listening area separate from others you don't wish to disturb, with a door or more in the way to keep the sound leak from reaching their ears. In terms of external noises, that too will easily leak into the headphone. A noise controlled environment is recommended here.



*Sound*​
Despite my main reason for wanting to try the Grado White being comfort related, if it sounded bad, there would be no point. Grado has a long history of being a brand with an interesting take on sound reproduction, which many would say falls under either love it or hate it categories. This I can understand, as from the short time I've spent with two Grado headphones have shown me that the Grado house sound, is quite different from what one expects with headphones in general. There is bound to be polarizing views.

Grados fall very much in the subjective preference camps rather than objective. Depending on who you ask, this can be good or bad, though I personally have a very open mindset on what sounds good and what doesn't. I believe that given enough time, most ears can adapt to drastic sonic differences. What can at first sound egregious and offensive with a quick listening test, can later sound subjectively perfect. Given enough time, I feel most ears acclimate to any specific type of sound. The mistake people make in terms of audio is they sit down, listen to something for a few minutes, and immediately come up with a conclusion based on that short impression. I don't place much, if any importance with these types of impressions. Perhaps they're used to a warm tilted headphone, and went to demo a bright leaning headphone? Or vice versa? That would surely skew their listening impressions to be more negative than one where the ear has acclimated to a specific balance.

In the same way our ears and eyes are hyper sensitive when we wake up, and later on adapt to the everyday bustle and hustle of life, a headphone's sound can drastically change for the better with prolonged exposure. I don't believe so much in mechanical burn in (I believe headphone burn in is constant and variable in very, very subtle ways, and not something one can put some arbitrary hours in, personally). Rather, I believe in physiological and psychological burn in being the biggest contributors to a headphone's sonic improvement.

The reason I mention this is because Grados are so specialized in their own sound that differs greatly from normal audio reproduction. So at first, one may say that the Grado house sound is terrible or way too different from what they consider normal. The Grado White does not wander off from this philosophy. Upon first listen, I found them a tad bright, harsh, and peaky. Not something I'd consider enjoyable. However, the more time I spent with them, the more my ears got accustomed to their sonic intricacies which led to a more agreeable conclusion. Let me be more specific.


*Bass:*

The Grado White's bass is a range that varies depending in which region you target. So much that the White has actually managed to make a lot of my music sound drastically different than expected. This all comes down to the sub bass being undeniably thinner and less weighty than the planars I come from. There's no denying that the Grado White isn't exactly super extended down low. It's not tin can levels of dry and empty, but more like there was focus aimed towards the mid and upper bass regions, which are fuller, punchier, and more engaging.

The White does not exactly lend itself well to atmospheric, ambient sub bass that envelopes a scene. Rather, it is reliant on the immediacy of impact, punch, and attack a bit higher up in the bass regions. As such, the White isn't a headphone I'd use for my mostly bass reliant library, where deep, atmospheric rumble and omnipotence is expected. One example of the type of bass reliant music I listen to is *Mimi Page - Lullaby For The Lonely (Yinyues Remix). *The Grado White simply can't reproduce the depth needed in the bass to play this track correctly.  It is more oriented on drawing out the detail and textures of things like bass guitars than electronic subterranea (yes, subterranea). As in all things deep, cavernous, etc. The White doesn't concern itself much with that.

So does this mean the White is bass light? Honestly? It depends. Due to the focus more towards mid and upper bass regions, depending on genre and music selection, there some thump and energy. The region that merges with the lower midrange, like male vocals can sound full and warm, even thick at times. If frequency testing comes to mind, I'd say it starts being reasonably audible and 'included' with the rest of the sound at 80hz+. You can hear it below 80hz, sure, but there just isn't all too much in terms of bass volume and impact below. Don't expect much there. This isn't a headphone to expect a lot of audible and physical bass extension.

So with that said, you can conclude that the White isn't a headphone for bassheads, or those who want deep bass in particular. It is more articulate, and discreet down low. Even the lower regions of bass have a great sense of texture and speedy decay that more so aids detail retrieval than mere excitement. I feel there is enough there in the mid and upper bass that can satisfy those with a more reserved palate. Though depending on who you ask, I'm sure there will be people who absolutely feel the bass is light and lacking. I'd put it between bass light and bass neutral overall. It fights between being one or the other for me.

Like I said, it isn't utterly devoid of bass. Some examples:

*Royksopp - What Else Is There (Trentemoller remix)* - A track with much importance placed in the bass. The Grado White thumps exceedingly well here. Highly enjoyable.

*Portishead - Biscuit* - A lot of lo-fi and trip hop tends to have questionable quality, so advanced warning here. However, the White plays this absolutely beautifully. The bass hits juuuuust right. Highly recommended with the White.

*Above and Beyond - Anjuna Beach* - has a vibrant bass line throughout. Very enjoyable on the White.

The White's bass really, REALLY varies depending on what you're throwing at it. For things outside of music, like action movies, or video games requiring immersion-inducing bass, I'd say the White isn't an ideal choice, but it isn't useless in these regards. It's passable, though if these are your main goals, I'd recommend looking elsewhere.


*Midrange to Treble:*

This is one area of sound I think many will agree one. The White has an excellent midrange. It's not exactly an HD650 or an Audeze headphone which romanticizes and sweetens the midrange with a juicy, syrupy, dulcet tone. Rather, it is vibrant, energetic, sharp, and focused, with great clarity and detail. Midrange body is what I'd consider tight. No silky smoothness or brittle dryness. It's neutrally toned with a great balance. More articulate and attentive. Forwardness is spot on. With the aid of the White's openness, the midrange is center stage, without disappearing as if listening in the back row, nor are you in the immediate vicinity of the performance. Very even presence.

In terms of frequencies, my ears pick up plenty of presence down in the lower midrange up to a good build up at 1.5khz, slight dip just past 4khz or so, to sharp peaks at 5khz and 7khz (can be problem areas if you're sensitive to prominence in these ranges). 8khz to 9khz is nice and detailed without harshness. 10khz is quite prominent to my ears, leading to a lot of detail up top, but also won't help the treble adverse. Past 10khz has plenty of extension without overwhelming the ears.

All in all, smooth isn't what I'd call the midrange and treble ranges. The White is definitely leaning on detail retrieval in these ranges, with razor sharp focus and definition. Is it bright? In comparison to what I'm used to, yes, it's a bright leaning headphone. But not overly so. Rather, it's more neutral bright than being clearly steered north to the bright categorization. The White's midrange is one of its strongest, if not its strongest characteristic, and one you should be very pleased with if details and clarity are important to you. That's not to say that the White isn't musical. It is. Very much so, but is clearly not aimed at seducing you with a chocolatey smoothness. It is controlled and disciplined. Like an aged professional.


*Soundstage and Imaging:*

It should come as no surprise to anyone who has ever owned a Grado with the big G cushion pads: The Grado White has fantastic soundstage properties. It is spacious, open, and particularly wide. It doesn't quite have the height and depth as some of the more recent planars I have experienced, but for most people, they should be more than elated by the soundstage performance. It is simply excellent.

Imaging is also a strength of the White. The White has highly defined details, and places sounds in different directions with great focus and outlines. It is easily one of the best headphones I've heard at placing objects cleanly and clearly in the virtual space. No haziness, no blurring of definition. Just immediate, tactile focus. Very, very good, Grado.

It also should come as no surprise considering what I've just said, but if you're someone who uses surround processing, for things like video games (think Dolby Atmos, GSX, SBX for headphones), the Grado White is an absolute stellar performer in terms of virtual surround soundstaging and imaging. I'd place it among my top tier headphones for this purpose. The expansion and emulation of a large virtual space of 'speakers' is expertly rendered by the Grado White. When Creative comes around with an SXFI device on the level that'd I'd personally like, I'd gather that the Grado White would easily hit incredibly high level of surround soundstage performance.


*Sound Signature:*

As you have no doubt gathered by now, the Grado White is what I'd consider neutral to bright leaning tonally, with open soundstage, detail orientation, and excellent clarity in general. Bass is taut and highly controlled (if a bit reserved down low), midrange is sharp, balanced, and focused, and treble region is highly present, zesty, and well extended. It isn't overly dry or sterile sounding, nor is it dark, thick, or muted. Think of it as a vibrant, detailed headphone with punch and energy (I say this a lot, and I mean it).



*Amplification*​
The Grado White follows the tradition of 'easy to drive' Grado headphones. It simply requires very little to get it going and extracting its optimal performance. I'd worry less about how much power the White is receiving, and focus more on offsetting its inherent signature with a warmer leaning source and/or amplifier if you want a little more musicality out of it. Not required, but beneficial.



*Gaming*​
The White makes for a much better detail oriented headphone aimed towards being more competitive and professionally capable rather than casual and immersive. It can do that well enough, but I'd steered it more towards picking up minute details, and positional accuracy. There is fun to be had here, as the mid bass is punchy and does have some body. However, immersion is clearly not on the level of deeper bass inclined headphones. For instance, something like an AKG K612 Pro is both neutrally toned, without strong emphasis in bass, but extends down low very well, which allows for better immersive traits than the White.

The White is highly competitive in terms of what I'd consider high level, hardcore competitive gaming, without giving up all sense of musicality, and fun factor. If you have the White, rest assured, it's a great headphone for all forms of gaming. It just happens to be better for one aspect than the other.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

In terms of music, I absolutely recommend the White for acoustic, rock, and jazzy genres of music. Not so much for electronic, hip hop, or other genres reliant on bass.

In terms of other media, I think it makes an excellent headphone for vocal duties like podcasts, general TV viewing like sports, news, comedies, and other non-action oriented TV and movie genres.

For gaming, I definitely would steer it towards online, competitive, detail focused gaming. Not so much casual or atmospheric games, though it can do these well enough. They just wouldn't be my first choice here.


*Real world practicality:*

The White is 100% a keep at home headphone. It's quite large, very open sounding with poor noise isolation, and lastly, it isn't a headphone that inspires confidence in terms of durability. Constantly moving it around will likely lead to imperfections on the white finish, and extra cable twisting due to the freedom in cup movement. Keep them at home, protected at all costs.


*Main or Complimentary:*

Due to the highly specialized tuning that Grados tend to have, I personally think that the Grado White makes for a better set of complimentary headphones to other headphones. Due to the White's signature excelling in vibrant energy, detail, and spaciousness, I'd recommend it be paired with a pair of darker, more fluid, if intimate set of headphones. Perhaps a warm planarmagnetic, or darker, closed back headphones.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Comfort
Aesthetics
Midrange
Soundstage
Clarity, detail, and definition

*Dislikes:*

Reserved lower bass
Some sharp treble peakiness
Build quality concerns

*
Something Worth Noting About The Pads*​
Those who have experience with Grados know that they can vary wildly in sound depending on which pads are used. I have a suspicion that the White can drastically improve in certain areas (like bass, warmth, and musicality) by replacing the pads with one of the other Grado types, like the soft on ear pads that come with the SR60, SR80, and GW100. Or the on ear L cushion pads that come with the SR225 and above. I expect this, because the distance between the ear and the driver plays a drastic part in tonal balance with these drivers. By merely pressing the White towards my ear, the tonality changed and became warmer, and fuller. Considering the G cushions the White comes with separates the driver from the ear a bit, I think it's worthwhile experimenting with different Grado pads. You may come up with some great results, though comfort levels will definitely vary. If I owned the White, I'd definitely invest in other pads for experimentation.



*Final Impressions*​
My short time with the Grado White was an enjoyable one. The White falls somewhere along the lines of being revealing and detailed, yet it doesn't forego its musicality to achieve it. I'll repeat myself here in saying it's a vibrant, punchy, energetic headphone that engages where its strengths lie. It's lacking a bit down low for my own specific preferences and tastes in mostly deep, electronic music and casual, laid back gaming purposes, but for all other things, I find the White to be quite exceptional. There are a few things I'd want improved like the peakiness in some treble ranges, though they really only became noticeable in frequency testing, and not so much with normal usage.

If you're not someone who relies on deep sub bass, or general bass emphasis, I think the White Headphone is magnificent in most other regards. The comfort is top notch thanks to the G cushions and the light weight. It is also easy to drive, the sound is clean, energetic, and spacious, and showcases what Grado is all about. It's not perfect, and there are things that keep it from being a must have for my own personal use cases, but its clearly a superb sounding headphone, and what I consider an absolute win for Grado. Grado made me a fan with their GW100. The White builds upon what I enjoyed about the GW100 and then some.

I know I'm gonna stir the pot here by making an exception and adding a few numbered scores when I haven't really done so in years, but if I could give the Grado White some scores:

_*Bass:* 6 (decent) quantity, 8.5 (great) quality - bass could use better extension and energy. Great speed and texture

*Midrange:* 9 quantity (fantastic), 9 quality (fantastic) - excellent balance, definition, clarity

*Treble:* 8 quantity (great), 7.5 quality (very good) - Great presence and extension. Peaks could stand to be improved

*Soundstage: *8.5 (great) - large and spacious with great imaging

*Comfort:* 8 (great) - Very comfortable and lightweight, slightly itchy, and ears touch inner foam

*Final/Overall*: 8 (great) - Even for someone like me who typically leans towards the warmer, smoother side of sound, there's a lot of to love here. The sub bass could stand to be fuller and more balanced with the rest of the sound, but then would it still be the Grado house sound?_

_If you come from other Grado headphones, I think you'll feel right at home here. Grado's 'The White Headphone' is a shining example of their dynamic, specialized, house sound.

 _


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## anicai

@Mad Lust Envy I'll try your settings. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.


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## muffins

Very nice review! I've really been enjoying the White myself; I havent seen much online about it, so I'm glad to see someone giving it some love!


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## Redcarmoose




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## Mad Lust Envy

Redcarmoose said:


>


Lifesavers and Oreos. What a combo.


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## TeeReQs

Nailed it


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## NA Blur

Thanks for the review. I've always thought the Grado drivers were capable of so much more than is represented I their headphones. I wish Grado would innovate a new design instead of changing the color of the cups. Give us something new with better 30Hz and 300Hz square wave response, low distortion, and deeper bass extension. I would look into that for sure!

It boggles my mind why they don't try something new.


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## Beagle

Thank you for your time and effort. It seem Grado is going in the wrong direction. Sad, since I count some of the older Grado models among my favourites. I really wish they would reinvent themselves and come up with something new and improved. It's been 'variations on a theme' for 20 years now. Mind you, I haven't heard the GS3000e or the PS2000e but apparently they use the same driver with tweaked tuning. Why not find some other dynamic drivers from China and try them in the wooden structures and see what happens? On the other hand, if their products are steady sellers, if it ain't broke don't fix it i guess.


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## Mani ATH 87

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ----------
> ----------
> 
> *Grado WH1 'The White Headphone'
> ...



Another bright sounding headphone with thin bass and bad build quality from Grado.

I think we have a pattern here...


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## Mani ATH 87

NA Blur said:


> Thanks for the review. I've always thought the Grado drivers were capable of so much more than is represented I their headphones. I wish Grado would innovate a new design instead of changing the color of the cups. Give us something new with better 30Hz and 300Hz square wave response, low distortion, and deeper bass extension. I would look into that for sure!
> 
> It boggles my mind why they don't try something new.



Man, I couldn't agree more! I like Grado as a company, but they desperately need to innovate. Design, comfort, sound, it's always the same rodeo with these guys...put out something new and fun guys.


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## LB Felipe

Is HyperX Cloud Orbit 100% compatible with these? https://www.audeze.com/collections/accessories/products/gel-filled-ear-pads-for-mobius


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## Suckafish

Hello @Mad Lust Envy, first I just want to give a thanks to this guide.  So much valuable info!  Quick question, I recently went from Audio Technica AD700x's to Beyerdynamic DT990 250 Edition's for PC gaming and I much prefer the "fun" factor the 990's offer over the AD700x's.  In your opinion, is there really anything better than the 990's strictly for non-competitive gaming?  I tried the AKG 712 Pro's and even though they sounded great they were a bit too large for my smaller head, and I think the 990's edged them out a bit anyway, again, for gaming.  I know Beyer and Sennheiser both offer higher end models, but are any of them actually a legitimate upgrade over the 990's that would provide a better sound stage and such to warrant the cost?  And how do you place the Philips Fidelio X2's, for example, with the 990's if I already like the way the 990's sound?  

Again, thanks for all the work you've put into this!


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## PurpleAngel

Suckafish said:


> Hello @Mad Lust Envy, first I just want to give a thanks to this guide.  So much valuable info!  Quick question, I recently went from Audio Technica AD700x's to Beyerdynamic DT990 250 Edition's for PC gaming and I much prefer the "fun" factor the 990's offer over the AD700x's.  In your opinion, is there really anything better than the 990's strictly for non-competitive gaming?  I tried the AKG 712 Pro's and even though they sounded great they were a bit too large for my smaller head, and I think the 990's edged them out a bit anyway, again, for gaming.  I know Beyer and Sennheiser both offer higher end models, but are any of them actually a legitimate upgrade over the 990's that would provide a better sound stage and such to warrant the cost?  And how do you place the Philips Fidelio X2's, for example, with the 990's if I already like the way the 990's sound?
> Again, thanks for all the work you've put into this!



The DT990 have a strong bass/treble, which over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
Any particular improvements your looking for?
What is the make and model of the motherboard that your plugging the headphones into?


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## Inspectre

Is something wrong with Windows Sonic on the Xbox?  In PUBG you can clearly hear the audio jump from left, to middle, and then right.  Like, clear steps.  Dolby headphones from my mixamp sounds much more natural.


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## Suckafish

PurpleAngel said:


> The DT990 have a strong bass/treble, which over shadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
> Any particular improvements your looking for?
> What is the make and model of the motherboard that your plugging the headphones into?



I am using a Sound Blaster AE-9 sound card in my setup.  Honestly, I think the DT990's sound great when gaming, so no complaints there, but I'm really just curious if there are any better options over them that are similar or would the cost of better headphones really not be worth it from a gaming perspective?


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## SierraMadre

Inspectre said:


> Is something wrong with Windows Sonic on the Xbox?  In PUBG you can clearly hear the audio jump from left, to middle, and then right.  Like, clear steps.  Dolby headphones from my mixamp sounds much more natural.


I experienced something similar in the Witcher 3 on a One X outputting via optical/bitstream to a Creative G6 (SBX surround turned off of course).
 Dolby Atmos for headphone: proper placement of cues. Windows Sonic: all over the place. Didn’t try it in any other games but for the Witcher 3, it turned out that Windows Sonic required the Xbox audio output setting to be set to uncompressed stereo, not bitstream, in order for Sonic’s cue placement to be correct.


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## dagerbil

"SBX surround turned off of course" - why of course?


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## SierraMadre

dagerbil said:


> "SBX surround turned off of course" - why of course?


Because that would be stacking two separate VSS solutions on top of each other which usually I prefer not to do.


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## PurpleAngel

Suckafish said:


> I am using a Sound Blaster AE-9 sound card in my setup.  Honestly, I think the DT990's sound great when gaming, so no complaints there, but I'm really just curious if there are any better options over them that are similar or would the cost of better headphones really not be worth it from a gaming perspective?


For FPS gaming, the AD700X and DT990 seem to be fairly good, so doubt you would find other headphones you would like better, for FPS gaming.
but to me there are better headphones for music and movies.
I like my Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X headphones, better then my DT990.


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## Suckafish

PurpleAngel said:


> For FPS gaming, the AD700X and DT990 seem to be fairly good, so doubt you would find other headphones you would like better, for FPS gaming.
> but to me there are better headphones for music and movies.
> I like my Massdrop/Sennheiser HD58X headphones, better then my DT990.



I mostly play more single player RPG/action/adventure focused games like The Witcher/Control/Resident Evil 2.  Would there really be anything better than the DT990's for these genres?


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## Ekoes (Sep 14, 2019)

Hello everyone, it's been quite a while that I get information about headphones, mainly for gaming fps (escape from tarkov, siege etc ..). What I am looking for is help in identifying enemy sounds / movements. I read this guide and found it very useful, if I didn't understand it wrong the best choice for me would be

AKG K 702 (https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B001RCD2DW/)

or
 Philips X2HR / 00 https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01N5VHLUG/
(there is the possibility of taking it used for 143 euros). Do you have any advice for me? Consider that now I only have the integrated sound card and my mobo is this: Asus TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, I believe ALC887 driver. I could consider buying a sound card in the future

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00OYZP6G0/

PS: I was almost sure of AKG k702 (having taken superlative in the votes for competitiveness) but someone online wrote that imaging is a weak point of this headset. Please help me, I have been evaluating for years which headset to buy !!


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## SierraMadre (Sep 14, 2019)

Ekoes said:


> Hello everyone, it's been quite a while that I get information about headphones, mainly for gaming fps (escape from tarkov, siege etc ..). What I am looking for is help in identifying enemy sounds / movements. I read this guide and found it very useful, if I didn't understand it wrong the best choice for me would be
> 
> AKG K 702 (https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B001RCD2DW/)
> 
> ...


The 702 is known for superb imaging. Also bear in mind there are 3 versions, the original, the 65th anniversary with small pads and the 65th anniversary revision with larger pads. The latter two are rarer and more expensive in addition to sounding different.

The Fidelity X2s have very good imaging but not as good as the 702. The X2s are better for immersion / ‘fun’ and a more ‘cinematic’ experience. They have a warmer, more lush sound signature (albeit some graininess at the top end) and have much more bass than the 702. If you want the X2s you should be able to get them at the 143 Euro price you quoted or possibly even cheaper for *new*, not used, if you wait till Black Friday, especially seeing as retailers will be keen to shift inventory as the launch of the X3 approaches.

If you want a good compromise between the 702 and the X2 then you should consider the K712 and the K7XX. In this middle ground, the K712 leans more toward the K702 and the K7XX leans more toward the X2.

Here is a decent comparison between the K712 and the K7XX

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/ajcvkk/comment/eewa5bi

And a very good comparison between all the  K7~ series models from headfier Ryan1987

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/

One definite advantage of the X2s over the AKGs is they are better built and more sturdy (albeit heavier) and are more versatile in that they are very easy to drive. They sound good with pretty much anything. The AKGs have around twice the impedance and while they are generally OK, sometimes even decent for mobile devices, you definitely won’t be getting the best out of them with low power sources.


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## Art Garfunkel

You can see a potential for mid forward bias with the smaller hole on the rear. Tuned to rock and roll perhaps?


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## 519514 (Sep 18, 2019)

Long time reader, first time poster.

Wanted to chime in on the intermittent mentions of the Fostex TH900 for gaming, which as of last week, I now own.

My objective has been to find a single pair of headphones which ticked all of these boxes: jazz, alt rock, electronica, portability (could I drive them via smartphone and/or Dragonfly and travel with them if I _really_ wanted to), competitive gaming (being a former Counter-Strike semi-pro), and experiential gaming (bring on Cyberpunk 2077).

My journey has been short but winding, owning all of these headphones since the start of year:

Beyerdynamic MMX 300
Beyerdynamic DT 1990 Pro
Acoustic Research AR-H1
Audio Technica ATH-AD700X
Sennheiser HD 800 S
Fostex TH-X00 Ebony

I wasn't happy with any of them, ultimately. The AR-H1, HD800S and AD700X all lacked low end meatiness; even after EQing (which I would rather avoid entirely), I yearned for a thicker sound. The AR-H1, TH-X00 Ebony and both sets of Beyers lacked the degree of soundstage I was after. Lastly, fully closed cans such as the MMX 300 have always felt a bit claustrophic for me, which is in part due to not being able to hear myself talk clearly over voice comms. After a few hours I just need to get them off my head to clear my head, whereas open and semi-open alleviate that sensation.

Enter the TH-900. Having read MLE's thoughts on the TH-900 for gaming in his TH-600 review, I bit the bullet. Soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, low end, and high end, are all fantastic. The mids are indeed somewhat recessed, but experimenting with a reduction of bass and treble reveals that these drivers do mids fantastically as well, if that's a priority for you and are willing to EQ. Personally, I won't be applying any EQ beyond experimentation - the out-of-box mids aren't something I have any grievance with. If you really want a neutral headphone, these shouldn't be on your radar to begin with.

I have only two notes to make for others eyeing off these cans:

Vertical imaging of the TH-900 doesn't quite match that of the HD 800 S, which makes it a touch harder to pinpoint enemy locations in tall environments such as multi-level complexes in a game like Apex Legends. It's a minor step back, and a minor con, when considering the many pros stacked up beside it.
In some titles, such as Overwatch, the bass may be perceived by some people as too great in quantity. While I've got no issues with bass quantity across titles, if this happens to be you, you can always fire up PC Equalizer for Equalizer APO and have it automatically reduce your low end when that game executable is running (and automatically revert when it is closed).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 15, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> Fostex TH-X00 Ebony


How similar is the TH-X00 to the TH900? I miss having a big Fostex dynamic in the vein of the old Denons. Now with Dekoni selling hybrid pads for these, I would be interested in owning something like that again.


----------



## 519514 (Sep 16, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> How similar is the TH-X00 to the TH900? I miss having a big Fostex dynamic in the vein of the old Denons. Now with Dekoni selling hybrid pads for these, I would be interested in owning something like that again.


The sound signature is, unsurprisingly, incredibly similar. The mids seem less recessed on the X00 Ebony, but this appears to be because the treble and bass have both been wound back slightly when compared directly to the 900. With a touch of EQ on either of them, you could get them sounding incredibly close to one another, whichever way you prefer it. Again, not that I'm advocating for EQ - if you're dropping more than $500+ on a pair of headphones you should probably just choose ones you actually like the sound of to begin with. The 900 outstrips the X00 in technicalities, noticeably but marginally (after all, it's always a case of diminishing cost-value returns creeping this high in price). The most obvious difference was the size of the soundstage - I'd have kept the X00 Ebony if they were wider. Apparently the Mahogany and Purple Hearts are even narrower than the Ebony.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, I really wish Denon D7000s were still around. Guess I can't ever fully escape the desire to have them again. I seriously don't think there ever will be anything like them ever again.


----------



## 519514

@Mad Lust Envy beyond the hefty headphones discussed often in this thread, are there any stand-out IEMs you think I should try that would tick the competitive and/or experiential gaming categories, which have a large soundstage?


----------



## thewind32

I've been tempted to go for a TH-900 for such a long time, especially hearing all the praise for it, but can't really justify it...  @jamieskella, are you using with it any vss solution?


----------



## 519514

I'm not, @thewind32. Is there anything in particular you feel I should have a play with?


----------



## thewind32

jamieskella said:


> I'm not, @thewind32. Is there anything in particular you feel I should have a play with?


Not in particular, I'm just curious whether the TH-900, given its good soundstage, should be used by itself or with vss.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 15, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> @Mad Lust Envy beyond the hefty headphones discussed often in this thread, are there any stand-out IEMs you think I should try that would tick the competitive and/or experiential gaming categories, which have a large soundstage?


I don't really like IEMs pretty much at all (comfort reasons), but I'd try the Audeze planars if simply because the tech interests me. I never would've imagined big drivers like that in IEM form. Check out their various isine line? I'm sure I could get Audeze to send me some, but it's hard for me to truly gauge IEMs. I don't feel confident in that space. I did manage to squeeze out the Creative IEM review, but it wasn't easy for my ears in terms of comfort.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting. I found the Massdrop Fostex derivates to compete only in tonality, tuning but not on the technical side. For instance the TH-900 never succumbed during very busy sections or passages, those however did leading to a certain Grießbrei experience. So while the default tuning of the TH-900 is kinda less agreeable for most than for instance the default tuning of the E-MU Teak or MD Ebony, the technical superiority is clear cut. Better separation, cleanliness, always above water when a lot of things happen. Jumpscary like ES 2 but in a good way.

TH-900 has 2 "flaws" at 400Hz (suckout) and 8khz (emphasized). You can fix those by EQ. Schiit Loki itself actually has a 400Hz and a 8Khz knob, very convenient. @omniweltall suggested it several times so I took the advice from him since I don't like to play with EQ APO anymore.
I wish there was a 8-band Super Loki by Schiit. 

I had the D7000 for a few weeks and I while their bass volume was impressive, downright hilarious in a positive way, they couldn't compete with the TH-900. Aside from details, separation, clarity soundstage was less deep and spacious in comparison.
At its time/peak it was a great experience though so maybe its unfair to compare it to today's headphones which have evolved a bit from that base. 

Still, some traits can still be very unique, so MLE has a great point. It's why I still love the HE-500 as it gives me an overall presentation and mids that I can't find elsewhere while being less technically capable than the HE-6, HD800, TH-900, Ananda etc...

Also, there's always some emotional value.


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## 519514 (Sep 16, 2019)

@Fegefeuer no doubt, the TH-900 trumps the X00 series on technicalities. Better bass extension, faster, better controlled, a seemingly blacker background, and so-on. Personally, I wouldn't say it's night-and-day, though, yet undeniably better in every area.

While the emphasis at 8k is noticeable - in fact, to my ear I'm hearing an over-emphasis as low as 4k - a 400Hz suckout hadn't become apparent to me. Are there any songs this would be particularly obvious with?


----------



## Fegefeuer

The general idea is to give (male) voices or the lower range more linearity and "proper" fullness. Check this measurement for instanceand notice the suckout at around that range vs a more linear sounding headphone (at the same range) like the LCD-2


----------



## Ekoes

I checked on the net, for the fps they all agree in saying that it is preferable to choose a better imaging rather than a better soundstage or at least find a compromise. What is my best option out there?
Now my choice is towards the ATH-AD700X, should I spend a little more and take the ATH-AD900X? Unfortunately they cost a lot more. If you had to choose one of the two would you recommend a sound card or a dac for the future? I want to be all right for a long time. What I'm looking for is excellent imaging. Thanks!


----------



## Fegefeuer

There are plenty reviews on the front page covering a lot of price brackets. How many did you read that you actually narrowed it down to two Audio Technica headphones? Did you omit K601, K701, K702 (AE), Q701, X2, DT990 etc.?


----------



## 519514

For what it’s worth, I subjectively found it very difficult to pinpoint player locations with my DT 1990 Pro. It’s been a long time since I wore the K702, but I recall them being very good in this regard. I recently owned the AD700X and found them great for imaging as well, albeit incredibly uncomfortable - their unique headband either works well for you, or it doesn’t at all.


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## 519514 (Sep 28, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> The general idea is to give (male) voices or the lower range more linearity and "proper" fullness. Check this measurement for instanceand notice the suckout at around that range vs a more linear sounding headphone (at the same range) like the LCD-2


Adjusting EQ at 500Hz and 5000Hz seem to have achieved the most positive shift, to my ear. I’ll do some research on foam/pad mods to achieve results in this vain, without EQ.


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## Ekoes (Sep 16, 2019)

Fegefeuer said:


> There are plenty reviews on the front page covering a lot of price brackets. How many did you read that you actually narrowed it down to two Audio Technica headphones? Did you omit K601, K701, K702 (AE), Q701, X2, DT990 etc.?



yes I read all the reviews, I decided to move towards those with high marks in competitiveness, I gave up the k701-k702 because I read that they have a very good soundstage but mediocre in imaging. Many of the recommended ones are now out of production and are found at crazy prices.


----------



## Scriba

I'm on the same initial situation. I'm looking forward to buy a k702 OR a AD 700x. 90 % of my use case is gaming at a competitive level.

Because of the big soundstage I tended first to the k702 but i read a lot about the lack of good imaging (no good directional sound). A good gaming headphone should have a really clear imaging for categorize the footsteps well.

Because of this negative feedback I'm somehow surprised, that the k702 has this excellent (10/10) competitive rating at the guide. Because of the imaging i tend now to buy the AD 700x.

Has someone experience on both cans (related at competitive/fps gaming)? and has the AD 700x decent build quality and run well on onboard mobo (ASUS ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

People need to keep in mind that people who reviewed the K702 and said bad imaging or whatever....almost every single one of those impressions came from people who didn't use virtual surround dsps. So if you follow this guide and use virtual surround, the experience will vary IMMENSELY from almost all other reviews out there. Virtual surround can turn a bad soundstage headphone into a good one, etc. Not always, but stereo vs virtual surround are NOT comparable. There is correlation, but not complete transference of headphone properties, strength and weaknesses.


----------



## Scriba

Thanks for the reply. You're right, most of them said stereo is superior because converting into surround downsampling the quality of the sound (distortion) and make it harder for hearing footsteps. But it seems it's a matter of taste and it probably depends heavily on the sound "engine" in the game.

I have an old astro mixamp (around 2013), because it's that old the astro software for PC is not running with it. But it still works as a DAC/surround converter. I would be ready to buy dolby atmos aswell (software) or some other DAC.

So if i'm using the astro mixamp or the dolby atmos software or even buy a new DAC like the gsx 1000 what would be the better headphone in your opinion for competitive play, the k702 or the ad 700x?


----------



## SierraMadre (Sep 16, 2019)

@Ekoes @Scriba If you don’t want to take MLE’s word for it then look at the wider reputation of the headphones in question. They generally echo MLE’s opinions give or take a bit. In any case, no matter what the headphone,  you will always find some opinions online that disagree with the wider consensus and even a few that will contradict it entirely. For example, the Fidelio X2s have a reputation for an expansive soundstage and, especially for an open-backed dynamic headphone, plentiful bass. My experience of owning them mirrors this . . . yet I have read at least a few user comments on various parts of the web claiming that the X2s have very little soundstage or bass. They didn’t just mean sub-bass which is a well known issue that many open backed dynamics struggle with. No, the users in question were claiming that the X2s have very little bass AT ALL. I can only assume that they were bassjunkies who had severely damaged their hearing in their past pursuit of bass.

To put it bluntly, you will likely *never* find a headphone that everybody without exception praises unequivocally.

If you’re leaning towards  Audio Technica then just get the ATH-ADG1X. It’s their premier open backed gaming headphone and is basically just a tweaked version of the AD900X, less dry, a bit warmer, smoother and with more / better bass while retaining the air and imaging it’s siblings are known for. It also has a very good built-in mic.

*But*, bear in mind that none of the Audio Technicas mentioned, including the AD700x and 900x, have detachable cables nor are their fixed cables of a particularly good build quality. They’re not braided so will be more prone to damage if accidentally yanked or stretched if you end up tangling them in something or stepping on them. If that happens and the internal wiring of the cable is damaged, then unless you have some kind accidental damage insurance or are comfortable fixing broken cables yourself, you would be screwed. Audio Technica likely wouldn’t fix it for you and if they did, they’d probably charge a hefty fee.

https://eu.audio-technica.com/ATH-ADG1X

The AKGs mentioned on the other hand, all come with detachable cables which are somewhat better quality than the Audio Technicas’ and are easily and cheaply replaceable.
Just order the 702 (or whatever else you wish to try first) from a retailer likeAmazon that offers no hassle return/refunds and give it a try although I think you would be better served with the K712 if not the K7XX.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*BlasterX G6* will get the new *SB Command* Software. No ETA yet. 

Don't know if the VSS parameters get a change too. Apparently it happened for the AE-5 but you never know with such kind of impressions.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...ew_ae5_drivers_make_it_seem_like_you_got_new/


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## Scriba (Sep 16, 2019)

@*SierraMadre *it's definitly not the case that I didn't took MLE's words. I just want to be sure that my final decision will be the right one for competitive gaming. I don't have that much experience in this subject so I compare a lot of headphones and DAC/AMP to get the best solution. I'm glad you guys can help me in this case.

Anyway, thanks for your suggetions towards the ATH-ADG1X.

I was checking the K712 and K7XX aswell but because they seems to have more bass than the K702, the last mentioned seems the better option for competitve gaming (it should be as neutral as possible).


----------



## stavros.m

Just curious would you guys recommend the creative g6 or the sxfi air headphones. I would be using them for only gaming and an occational movie on pc and ps4

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Just curious would you guys recommend the creative g6 or the sxfi air headphones. I would be using them for only gaming and an occational movie on pc and ps4
> 
> thanks



The G6 will allow you to use any future headphones, and I'd steer that direction if you believe you'll get other headphones down the line. If you're just wanting something and be done with it all, the Air is pretty good. Mind you the Air's main uses are on pc, so perhaps not the most ideal if you wanna use it for ps4.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Scriba said:


> I'm on the same initial situation. I'm looking forward to buy a k702 OR a AD 700x. 90 % of my use case is gaming at a competitive level.
> Because of the big soundstage I tended first to the k702 but i read a lot about the lack of good imaging (no good directional sound). A good gaming headphone should have a really clear imaging for categorize the footsteps well.
> Because of this negative feedback I'm somehow surprised, that the k702 has this excellent (10/10) competitive rating at the guide. Because of the imaging i tend now to buy the AD 700x.
> Has someone experience on both cans (related at competitive/fps gaming)? and has the AD 700x decent build quality and run well on onboard mobo (ASUS ROG Strix Z370-F Gaming)?


The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X is good for FPS gaming, but is very bass light.
AD700X is also easy to power.
AKG K702 will have a wide soundstage and is more power hungry then the AD700X.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Scriba said:


> Thanks for the reply. You're right, most of them said stereo is superior because converting into surround downsampling the quality of the sound (distortion) and make it harder for hearing footsteps. But it seems it's a matter of taste and it probably depends heavily on the sound "engine" in the game.
> 
> I have an old astro mixamp (around 2013), because it's that old the astro software for PC is not running with it. But it still works as a DAC/surround converter. I would be ready to buy dolby atmos aswell (software) or some other DAC.
> 
> So if i'm using the astro mixamp or the dolby atmos software or even buy a new DAC like the gsx 1000 what would be the better headphone in your opinion for competitive play, the k702 or the AD700X?


I would guess, when is comes to PC use, the Astro Mix-amp is about equal to a $30 PC sound card.
For $30, you can get Creative Labs headphone surround sound software, that works with your motherboard's on-board audio (Realtek ALC1220).
https://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3


----------



## 519514

I've always avoided VSS for competitive gaming - the idea that you might make it to a LAN based event and not be able to use VSS, thus changing how you hear the game _dramatically_, doesn't make much sense to me.

To chime in on the above AKG v AT decision making process, assuming that the AT's are comfortable for you and bassy music isn't a priority, I'd say it's the clear choice. I'd still be using them if I could wear them for more than an hour.


----------



## TeeReQs

jamieskella said:


> I've always avoided VSS for competitive gaming - the idea that you might make it to a LAN based event and not be able to use VSS, thus changing how you hear the game _dramatically_, doesn't make much sense to me.



This is a really good point, that I never thought about. I've come to realize my competitive days are over, but something to note for anyone considering to use VSS or not. I've been using VSS for so long now, it's hard to go back to stereo. SBX from the X7 just makes everything sound so much better IMO. I played the Modern Warfare Beta over the weekend, and went back and forth between SBX and stereo, and always came back to using SBX.

I got some HD700's in the mail today though, so I'm very excited to try these out compared to my 598 SE.


----------



## Scriba

PurpleAngel said:


> I would guess, when is comes to PC use, the Astro Mix-amp is about equal to a $30 PC sound card.
> For $30, you can get Creative Labs headphone surround sound software, that works with your motherboard's on-board audio (Realtek ALC1220).
> https://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3



Thanks for the suggestion, i didn't know this software.

I just found the free software *HeSuVi*, it looks amazing if it works well (didn't try it out). There are a lot more possibilities than in any other software.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The G6 will allow you to use any future headphones, and I'd steer that direction if you believe you'll get other headphones down the line. If you're just wanting something and be done with it all, the Air is pretty good. Mind you the Air's main uses are on pc, so perhaps not the most ideal if you wanna use it for ps4.


thank you very much for the answer. So you would suggest the G6 for pc and ps4. Is there any other headset you would recommend for pc or ps4 i had my eye on the audeze mobius also, but open to any recommendations

thanks


----------



## Scriba

I did some research and really like the k702 overall. The ad700x seems good for competitive gaming but has maybe some more downsides than the k702 which is aswell good for competitive gaming.

Has someone experience with the k702 combined with the sound blasterX G6; is the power enough and the surround works well in case of soundstage and imaging?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The G6 will have the volume, but the K702 absolutely deserves a stronger amplifier.


----------



## stavros.m

PurpleAngel said:


> I would guess, when is comes to PC use, the Astro Mix-amp is about equal to a $30 PC sound card.
> For $30, you can get Creative Labs headphone surround sound software, that works with your motherboard's on-board audio (Realtek ALC1220).
> https://software.store.creative.com/p/software/sound-blaster-x-fi-mb3


Does this replace the need for the G6 and i can use my amp/dac that i am currently using
thanks


----------



## stavros.m (Sep 17, 2019)

sorry one more question would the G6 still be advised over the newer sxfi amp. Is SXFI newer technology and the way creative will be heading in the futur

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno about the new SXFI amp's power capabilities. That'd be my only concern. That and whether it can take external sources (optical input). I forgot if it did. If it does, and has more power than the G6.... I'd want one myself. I should contact Creative.


----------



## PurpleAngel (Sep 17, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> Does this replace the need for the G6 and i can use my amp/dac that i am currently using
> thanks


If the Creative Labs $30 software, running on a Realtek DSP, as good as the Creative Labs G6, for headphone surround sound........not something I'm qualified to answer.
If your motherboard's on-board audio hardware, is optically connected to the external DAC and your using the Creative $30 software, then in general your getting something like the Creative Labs G6 functionality.


----------



## illram (Sep 17, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> sorry one more question would the G6 still be advised over the newer sxfi amp. Is SXFI newer technology and the way creative will be heading in the futur
> 
> thanks



Assuming you perform a proper head map with its software, and have a headphone on their list (or something that sounds like a headphone on their list), Super X-Fi virtual surround sounds superior to the G6 and X7 (which use "SBX Pro" VSS, not "Super X-Fi" VSS, thank you Creative for having multiple confusing virtual surround technologies...). But it is only useful on PC, its VSS is not functional on any console. The little tiny Super X-Fi dongle I have has crazy amounts of juice that can get even my HD800S to ear splitting volumes, without even getting close to max volume, so I would be surprised if their upcoming amp is any less powerful. Right now I am using it with the Massdrop HiFiman XX and at around 28 on the windows volume dial it is plenty of volume for me.

As for the $30 Creative SBX Pro suite vs. the G6.... if it is using SBX Pro, it is basically the same software as the G6 and you can use whatever amp you have laying around(just PC only). It confusingly has "X-Fi" in the title but I don't think it is using "Super" X-Fi virtual surround....but I wouldn't be positive until I bought it. Despite "Super X-Fi" being (to my ears) better than SBX Pro, SBX Pro is still very good though and one of the best generic (i.e. non custom-measurement) VSS options.


----------



## Scriba

illram said:


> Assuming you perform a proper head map with its software, and have a headphone on their list (or something that sounds like a headphone on their list), Super X-Fi virtual surround sounds superior to the G6 and X7 (which use "SBX Pro" VSS, not "Super X-Fi" VSS, thank you Creative for having multiple confusing virtual surround technologies...). But it is only useful on PC, its VSS is not functional on any console. The little tiny Super X-Fi dongle I have has crazy amounts of juice that can get even my HD800S to ear splitting volumes, without even getting close to max volume, so I would be surprised if their upcoming amp is any less powerful. Right now I am using it with the Massdrop HiFiman XX and at around 28 on the windows volume dial it is plenty of volume for me.
> 
> As for the $30 Creative SBX Pro suite vs. the G6.... if it is using SBX Pro, it is basically the same software as the G6 and you can use whatever amp you have laying around(just PC only). It confusingly has "X-Fi" in the title but I don't think it is using "Super" X-Fi virtual surround....but I wouldn't be positive until I bought it. Despite "Super X-Fi" being (to my ears) better than SBX Pro, SBX Pro is still very good though and one of the best generic (i.e. non custom-measurement) VSS options.



A new amp with Super X-Fi? i didn't found any information about this, where did you find this


----------



## Ekoes

Scriba said:


> A new amp with Super X-Fi? i didn't found any information about this, where did you find this



I think we are talking about this https://it.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp#buy-menu sold bundled with aurvana live headphones for 140 euros. Here's another thing that will make your buying ideas more complicated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 17, 2019)

There's a new pc desktop amp that has SXFI. It's not out yet.

edit: Creative X3, potentially


----------



## stavros.m

i think this is it coming this year i found it on page 2841 in this thread
https://uk.creative.com/upgrade/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 17, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> i think this is it coming this year i found it on page 2841 in this thread
> https://uk.creative.com/upgrade/


Hah, beat you to it. 

What's interesting is the SXFI button having an HP/line out below. Meaning we'll likely have SXFI for other amps.


----------



## lucifero13

Good day! I just recently pulled the trigger on the G6 and happy with it! Got a question tho. Is it okay to hear an audible click from the unit itself when im switching from headphone to speaker mode and vice versa?


----------



## TeeReQs

The X7 does this too. Pretty sure it's normal


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

lucifero13 said:


> Good day! I just recently pulled the trigger on the G6 and happy with it! Got a question tho. Is it okay to hear an audible click from the unit itself when im switching from headphone to speaker mode and vice versa?




Definitely normal.


----------



## mharidas

If anyone's interested, I am reporting on DTS:X for Headphones that is currently only available on the insider ring builds. Being a long time user of Dolby Headphone DH2 mode for gaming, I was curious what these new Spatial Sound APIs can offer today. I've tried all of them. 

Dolby Atmos for headphones has way too much muffling all-around and some exaggerated sound cues for odd things that just don't make any sense, destroys that airy feeling Dolby Headphone had in comparison. Windows Sonic was just as bad but does messy things in a different way, sounds more like hearing stuff in a cave, hard to pin point whats going wrong with it. Dolby Atmos though does sound suitable for movies with 7.1 TrueHD tracks and native Dolby Atmos content but for gaming it just doesn't sound right. The sound-stage in Atmos is also way too lacking in depth, there is no way to tweak it like we could in Dolby headphone with the 3 DH modes.

Now DTS: X for headphones, immediately the sound-stage was spacious and ever more so pleasingly with the "Spacious" preset. The sound had an airy feel to it although not quite Dolby headphone DH2 levels, some things felt even better with depth perception but may sound to some as exaggerated if they have been used to DH2 mode on Dolby for so long. However one glaring problem I felt, there is some sort of imaginary bounding area towards the center of the view-port where sound tends to get muffled especially noticed in 3rd person mode. This sounds more like DH1 of Dolby Headphone but for just that one zone in the center which is very odd because everything outside of that zone sounds very airy and natural. If that's fixed or changed by way of settings for the user, DTS:X might be the ticket to abandoning internal and USB sound cards from the gamer center OEMs for good. Get some decent audiophile grade dac/amp combo and DTS:S X apply that processing via USB or optical out and you have a great setup that is isolated from the noisy environment of he PC. I ditched the Xonar U3 for a Xonar Essence STX I got for cheap because I recently got an HD 700, coming up from my trusty HD 598. On both headphones DTS: X performed better, while Dolby Headphone DH2 mode being still better overall, at least to my ears.

One thing to note, prior to Windows update 1903, choosing any of the spatial sound engines allowed us to turn on Virtual 7.1 surround in the same menu to get the best results but now that option has been removed by Microsoft, the assumption is that it is now always enabled by default but there is no confirmation of this from Microsoft. People assumed this because some DSP apps like Nahimic report that Nahimic Surround can't be enabled because Spatial Sound virtual 7.1 surround has been enabled and you can't disable it  like you could prior to 1903. I tried forcing 8 channels on my Xonar STX but it immediately defaults to 2 channel as long as any of the Spatial Sound modes were enabled, so not entirely sure how that missing 7.1 virtual surround option is now handled internally.


----------



## illram

mharidas said:


> If anyone's interested, I am reporting on DTS:X for Headphones that is currently only available on the insider ring builds. Being a long time user of Dolby Headphone DH2 mode for gaming, I was curious what these new Spatial Sound APIs can offer today. I've tried all of them.
> 
> Dolby Atmos for headphones has way too much muffling all-around and some exaggerated sound cues for odd things that just don't make any sense, destroys that airy feeling Dolby Headphone had in comparison. Windows Sonic was just as bad but does messy things in a different way, sounds more like hearing stuff in a cave, hard to pin point whats going wrong with it. Dolby Atmos though does sound suitable for movies with 7.1 TrueHD tracks and native Dolby Atmos content but for gaming it just doesn't sound right. The sound-stage in Atmos is also way too lacking in depth, there is no way to tweak it like we could in Dolby headphone with the 3 DH modes.
> 
> ...



Is this different than the DTS Sound Unbound option I recently saw in the "spatial sound" options in Windows? I've been curious to try it.


----------



## mharidas

illram said:


> Is this different than the DTS Sound Unbound option I recently saw in the "spatial sound" options in Windows? I've been curious to try it.



The very same! The DTS: X headphone is the free trial option within that DTS Sound Unbound app. This is the same DTS X Headphone 2.0 they demoed way back in 2014 to exclusive invite-only press core.

They have a library of tunings for several headphones, though HD 700 wasn't among the list, so I chose generic headphones and put the preset to "Spacious" and the HD 700 sounded good. I'll stick to Dolby Headphone DH2 mode for now though but I am sure DTS will listen to feedback and fix the small issues I noticed.


----------



## Mightygrey

Mad Lust Envy said:


> ----------
> ----------
> 
> *Grado WH1 'The White Headphone'
> ...


I really need to see a picture of someone wearing these to get a true idea of what they actually look like. Any volunteers care to share?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mightygrey said:


> I really need to see a picture of someone wearing these to get a true idea of what they actually look like. Any volunteers care to share?


They look comically huge when worn. Suffice to say, if you're trying to look attractive while wearing headphones, this ain't one of the good ones, hahaha.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Anybody got the LCD2? Do you still feel the weight when you're playing? I got to use it for like 15 minutes with the new headband and it's more comfortable but just wondering


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That new headband design really goes a long way, compared to the one the LCD2 came with so those years ago. Literal night and day comfort improvement. You'll still feel the weight, but it's so much easier on the head when the headband comfort is so dramatically improved.


----------



## Mightygrey

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They look comically huge when worn. Suffice to say, if you're trying to look attractive while wearing headphones, this ain't one of the good ones, hahaha.


Well I also own a pair of Jecklin Floats, so everything is relative...I guess.


----------



## mindbomb

mharidas said:


> One thing to note, prior to Windows update 1903, choosing any of the spatial sound engines allowed us to turn on Virtual 7.1 surround in the same menu to get the best results but now that option has been removed by Microsoft, the assumption is that it is now always enabled by default but there is no confirmation of this from Microsoft. People assumed this because some DSP apps like Nahimic report that Nahimic Surround can't be enabled because Spatial Sound virtual 7.1 surround has been enabled and you can't disable it  like you could prior to 1903. I tried forcing 8 channels on my Xonar STX but it immediately defaults to 2 channel as long as any of the Spatial Sound modes were enabled, so not entirely sure how that missing 7.1 virtual surround option is now handled internally.



Well, the virtual 7.1 setting is something you can easily test for with a 7.1 file. When the setting is unchecked, windows spatial sound is only enabled for games that support the api and full 3d sound. When the setting is checked though, it will work with games or applications that support regular 7.1 as well. The issue is that nothing supports windows spatial sound, so without the 7.1 fallback, it typically doesn't do anything.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 20, 2019)

If you guys wanna do me a solid, head on over to the Asgard 3 thread, and let them know what a good idea it would be for the Asgard 3 to have an add in card with an optical/spdif input instead of usb input, considering how we can hook up literally anything and everything we use with optical, as opposed to usb which is much more limited.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you guys wanna do me a solid, head on over to the Asgard 3 thread, and let them know what a good idea it would be for the Asgard 3 to have an add in card with an optical/spdif input instead of usb input, considering how we can hook up literally anything and everything we use with optical, as opposed to usb which is much more limited.


I asked Jason Stoddard for an s/pdif card back when Jotunheim was released and he said that they don't want to have another SKU for like ten people that would buy it. Back in Modi 1 when Modi was USB only they made a separate version called Modi optical (which I used to own) and according to Jason they didn't sell at all.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hell, I bought the Modi 1 and never noticed they had that. I definitely would've gotten it. I don't think they advertise themselves as well as they do these days.


----------



## TeeReQs

I posted over there. Asgard 3 seems like everything I could want from an amp/dac combo if it had optical. If I played on PC only, it wouldn't matter too much, but would be nice to cover the console side of things using the X7's SBX.


----------



## Scriba

What are your experience with the DT 1990 pro compared to the 990 pro? I know the higher price is not worth it but is the DT 1990 better for gaming?


----------



## Thenewbie76

Scriba said:


> A new amp with Super X-Fi? i didn't found any information about this, where did you find this


So did you finalize on what you're gonna get ?


----------



## Thenewbie76

@Mad Lust Envy sorry but 2 more questions, firstly is there any virtual surround sound programme I could use because the DAC I am using now is the SMSL SU 8 ( good measurements according to amirm from audiosciencereview) and the THX 789. I am happy with my gear now. Secondly  couldn't I just use the mic cable from the LCD GX on the LCD 2?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Scriba said:


> What are your experience with the DT 1990 pro compared to the 990 pro? I know the higher price is not worth it but is the DT 1990 better for gaming?


I would expect the DT1990 to provide a better overall sound quality, compared to the DT990.
I myself own the DT990-250-Ohm & 600-Ohm, the 250-Ohm T70 and 250-Ohm T90.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Thenewbie76 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy sorry but 2 more questions, firstly is there any virtual surround sound programme I could use because the DAC I am using now is the SMSL SU 8 ( good measurements according to amirm from audiosciencereview) and the THX 789. I am happy with my gear now. Secondly  couldn't I just use the mic cable from the LCD GX on the LCD 2?



I forget, are you just playing on PC?

1. If you play on Xbox, you can just use the Dolby Atmos app for it. If you play on PC, you have limitless options. Dolby Atmos app, HeSuVi, or buy a cheap usb stick like the Xonar U3 that has virtual surround and can be sent either optical or line out to your dac. On PS4, you're out of luck.

2. Of course. Though the GX is NOT the LCD2. They sound different. But yes, if you have an LCD2, or literally any LCD, you can use the mic cable with them and turn them into a headset.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I forget, are you just playing on PC?
> 
> 1. If you play on Xbox, you can just use the Dolby Atmos app for it. If you play on PC, you have limitless options. Dolby Atmos app, HeSuVi, or buy a cheap usb stick like the Xonar U3 that has virtual surround and can be sent either optical or line out to your dac. On PS4, you're out of luck.
> 
> 2. Of course. Though the GX is NOT the LCD2. They sound different. But yes, if you have an LCD2, or literally any LCD, you can use the mic cable with them and turn them into a headset.


Sorry for the late reply, my bad I forgot tell you which platform I am on. I am playing on PC


----------



## TeeReQs

Any plans to review anything from the Focal line (Elex or Clear?)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

TeeReQs said:


> Any plans to review anything from the Focal line (Elex or Clear?)


Not unless they reach out and send me something, or someone is willing to loan me a pair.


----------



## TeeReQs

Someone get this man a pair of Focals!


----------



## SierraMadre (Sep 26, 2019)

Full product page for Sound blaster X3 with full specs.
https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-x3

Seems it’s already shipped to some
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/d9gbbd/x3_just_arrived_at_my_door/

Perhaps surprisingly, it’s currently almost 20% cheaper than an already slightly discounted SXFI Amp despite the X3 having considerably greater functionality.

https://uk.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp


----------



## SierraMadre

@Mad Lust Envy If I may ask, in your Multichannel VSS gaming and movie experiences with the SXFI Air, how much ‘out of your head’ depth did you get from the center channel?

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Wonder if it transfers S-XFI/SBX over optical out.


----------



## herya

my Fostex-TR X00 are great for gaming, paired with my Sound BlasterX AE-5, great directional sound and effects.


----------



## tmaxx123

X3 is a bit underwhelming from what I was hoping it would be. Oh well,  Back to my x7 with sparkos


----------



## TeeReQs

tmaxx123 said:


> X3 is a bit underwhelming from what I was hoping it would be. Oh well,  Back to my x7 with sparkos



I'm thinking of doing the Sparkos upgrade on my X7. Asgard 3 was intriguing, but with no optical input, that doesn't work for me.


----------



## Yethal

TeeReQs said:


> Any plans to review anything from the Focal line (Elex or Clear?)


I own the Clears. Not that great for gaming, imaging is amazing but the soundstage is very narrow which hurts positional cues.


----------



## TeeReQs

Good to know. Elex is more in my price range anyways, but any idea if they are similar to the clears in regards to soundstage?


----------



## tmaxx123

TeeReQs said:


> I'm thinking of doing the Sparkos upgrade on my X7. Asgard 3 was intriguing, but with no optical input, that doesn't work for me.



sparkos are def worth it in the x7. I’ve had them for over a year and they always seem to surprise me no matter what I throw at them. Well worth it


----------



## TeeReQs

I've only read good things about them. Might have to pull the trigger..


----------



## Yethal

TeeReQs said:


> Good to know. Elex is more in my price range anyways, but any idea if they are similar to the clears in regards to soundstage?


The entire high end Focal lineup is like that. For music, yeah go ahead, for games even $120 PC37x beats them


----------



## Absolute Zero

Hey guys, since I can't find this info anywhere, does anyone know/has anyone tested if the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 works with a PS3?


----------



## headphonesonly

Absolute Zero said:


> Hey guys, since I can't find this info anywhere, does anyone know/has anyone tested if the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 works with a PS3?


I don’t have a ps3 to test but I’m pretty sure it works the same as ps4.


----------



## SierraMadre

Absolute Zero said:


> Hey guys, since I can't find this info anywhere, does anyone know/has anyone tested if the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 works with a PS3?


For Mic purposes, dunno. For dac/amp purposes there’s no reason for it not to as you would be using the optical in for audio. Just set the PS3 to bitstream Dolby Digital and optical as the primary and you’re good to go. If for some reason the PS3 can’t power the unit properly then just use an external USB power source.


----------



## Absolute Zero

Thank you both for your input. The reason why I'm asking is that the PS3 is not listed among the supported consoles. The same applies to the 360.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 27, 2019)

Well both those systems have been outdated and replaced by like 7 years. No reason to have a product launched what, last year, this year stating old system support. 360 I assume needs chat to be routed to the controller, and PS3 might maybe have barebones chat through usb. In terms of audio, both have optical out which the G6 fully supports via Dolby Digital.


----------



## SierraMadre

So, maybe I’m misunderstanding this as the Soundblaster X3 product page uses some different measurement specs to that on the SXFI Amp product page and maybe any differences would be too marginal for the average ear to perceive anyway,  but the the two specs their product pages do both list, SNR and THD + N, appear to be weaker for the X3. . .?!

Soundblaster X3: 115dB SNR, 0.0004% THD + N
SXFI AMP: upto 120dB SNR, 0.0003% THD + N


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> So, maybe I’m misunderstanding this as the Soundblaster X3 product page uses some different measurement specs to that on the SXFI Amp product page and maybe any differences would be too marginal for the average ear to perceive anyway,  but the the two specs their product pages do both list, SNR and THD + N, appear to be weaker for the X3. . .?!
> 
> Soundblaster X3: 115dB SNR, 0.0004% THD + N
> SXFI AMP: upto 120dB SNR, 0.0003% THD + N


Unless your have an Audio Precision analyzer builtin your ears I wouldn't care.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> Unless your have an Audio Precision analyzer builtin your ears I wouldn't care.


Given that the DAC is obviously different/cheaper (they make a big song and dance about the AMP using the AKM4377 but nothing on the X3), I wonder if the amplification side of components is weaker too? I mean the MSRP is markedly less despite having a whole heap more functionality / versatility.


----------



## Scriba

if price doesn't matter, what's better for gaming: DT 1990 or Hifiman ananda?


----------



## Ironcobra80

Hey guys Im looking to replace my 10+ year old trusty ath-a900s with the lcd-gx because planers have had my interest for a while, I'm not much of a music listener, but I watch a lot of movies and a ton of non competitive games on my PC. I imagine these will be a huge upgrade over my a900s. My real question is I'm using my marantz sr7010 to power my a900s connected to my PC via hdmi and really enjoy dts x headphone alot and use Dolby atmos only when the content is encoded with it. I'm not really looking to buy any headphone amp/dac combo if i don't have to which is why the gx really interests me as mle review seems to state this. I just upgraded my system to a gigabyte x570 aurous master (https://www.aorus.com/X570-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10) and wondering if this is a good enough mobo for these headphones or should I just keep using my marantz for the headphones and split the mic out to the onboard. I haven't tried my a900s with the new mobo but they were a lot worse on my previous mobo, asus crosshair vi, thanks for the help. I use a modmic wireless on my current setup so I will be losing that on the gx and as crappy as nvidia audio is with latency problems I would love to lose that on my pc and move to the onboard audio. 3rd option is would a sound card like evga nu blow both of these away?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scriba said:


> if price doesn't matter, what's better for gaming: DT 1990 or Hifiman ananda?


I haven't heard the 1990, but I would always go planar before dynamic drivers.

And the Ananda does absolutely everything well. I think overall, the Ananda is probably the safest choice in headphones in the higher end market.


----------



## Ironcobra80

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard the 1990, but I would always go planar before dynamic drivers.
> 
> And the Ananda does absolutely everything well. I think overall, the Ananda is probably the safest choice in headphones in the higher end market.


Do you like them more than the lcd gx meeting my questions in the above post?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ironcobra80 said:


> Do you like them more than the lcd gx meeting my questions in the above post?


Yes. The GX has some polarizing features. The Ananda may not be MAGICAL in one specific trait, but it's a do it all well kind of headphone. If I was gonna buy a headphone at that price range, personally that would be the one I would go for. Personally speaking.


----------



## Ironcobra80 (Sep 27, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes. The GX has some polarizing features. The Ananda may not be MAGICAL in one specific trait, but it's a do it all well kind of headphone. If I was gonna buy a headphone at that price range, personally that would be the one I would go for. Personally speaking.


I assume its easy to drive off of the mobo or my avr as I wont be able to add a dac/amp anytime soon as Ive added just upgraded my pc and only allowed heaphones with whats left of the budget, this is a tough decision lol. I already purchased the gx but I can still cancel the order. The ananda is 50 dollars cheaper than the gx right now and I guess I can keep my mod mic with the ananda. Man you made this tough lol. Can you elaborate a little on what you mean by polarizing features.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree with MLE. Have the Ananda for a few weeks here and they tick a lot of boxes:

details, soundstage width, depth, height or soundstage cohorence/seamlessness, meaning they are not 3 Blob, wider with no depth or eben hallway style.

Then clear, sharp imaging, separation, very good extension to both ends, slamming, punchy (not like a HE6 though but still excellent) and all that while not being hard to drive.


----------



## Ironcobra80

Thanks guys cancelled my order and grabbed the Ananda on amazon as its 150 off right now, ill post back with my impressions.
s


----------



## SCalla0490

Hoping this post gets some attention. I recently bought the G6 with sennhieser GSP 500s. Sounds amazing, especially coming from Astro a40s and TR mixamp. One thing I wish I had was seperate audio mix for Discord. That was a very nice QOL feature the TR had. 

Is there any possible way I can hook my astro TR mixamp up to control audio chat? So games and music and videos from the G6, then the volume dial to turn up/down Discord chat?


----------



## 519514

Fegefeuer said:


> I agree with MLE. Have the Ananda for a few weeks here and they tick a lot of boxes:
> 
> details, soundstage width, depth, height or soundstage cohorence/seamlessness, meaning they are not 3 Blob, wider with no depth or eben hallway style.
> 
> Then clear, sharp imaging, separation, very good extension to both ends, slamming, punchy (not like a HE6 though but still excellent) and all that while not being hard to drive.


How do they compare to the Arya for gaming, in your experience (if you've used them)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jamieskella said:


> How do they compare to the Arya for gaming, in your experience (if you've used them)?


Honestly, people shouldn't be looking at headphones at that price range for gaming. If you happen to have a headphone of that caliber, then yes, it's worth it for gaming, but if you're specifically targeting gaming, I honestly think you shouldn't be going so far as to buy an Ananda or Arya. That's a whole lot of headphone, but nothing that a much cheaper class of headphone can't do well in in terms of gaming. Get an Ananda or Arya for the technical stuff, and rest assured they'd be good for gaming. DON'T get them if you're specifically looking for high end gaming cans. Don't be so easily parted of your money just because they're higher end. Pretty sure, they wouldn't touch the HD800S for technical traits, nor the TH900 you have for immersion. You're already pretty well covered.


----------



## 519514 (Sep 29, 2019)

@Mad Lust Envy I'm not looking at any headphone for gaming exclusively; I just won't want to buy any headphone that's not _also_ good for gaming. Duly noted on the HD800S and TH900 combo, but I've caught 'the bug' and it's likely my collection will grow, to include a planar - there was a lot I enjoyed about the AR-H1, and a bunch of things I didn't... including gaming.


----------



## Thenewbie76

herya said:


> my Fostex-TR X00 are great for gaming, paired with my Sound BlasterX AE-5, great directional sound and effects.


i'm surprise you can game with this , I heard that they have a really narrow soundstage. Not sure about the fostex th900 tho, which tr x00 do you have? The purple hearts?


----------



## EspreSSoq

Hey guys, I already have X-fi Titanium (non HD) and Fidelio X2. Its working fine for me for music ,but I don’t feel enough soundstage for games.
I want to buy ATH-AD700X exclusively for competitive gaming , is there any sense also buy modi 3 + magni 3 ? Would it ruin the width and accuracy of the soundstage? And will CMSS-3D work through SPDIF out  + modi ?
Thank you.


----------



## illram

Anyone playing Borderlands 3? It has a spatial audio feature that is fun to listen to. Recent patches keep improving it and I now notice height audio cues (using Atmos) as I move around the world; pretty cool.


----------



## PurpleAngel (Sep 29, 2019)

EspreSSoq said:


> Hey guys, I already have X-fi Titanium (non HD) and Fidelio X2. Its working fine for me for music ,but I don’t feel enough soundstage for games.
> I want to buy ATH-AD700X exclusively for competitive gaming , is there any sense also buy Modi 3 + Magni 3 ? Would it ruin the width and accuracy of the soundstage? And will CMSS-3D work through SPDIF out  + modi ?
> Thank you.


The Titanium (both HD and non-HD) sound card can send it's CMSS-3D headphone surround sound out the S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) output ports.
I would say to just replace the Titanium card with the newer Creative Labs AE-5 sound card.
But nothing wrong with getting the Modi/Magni combo (Modi with optical) if that's what you prefer (to connect to the Titanium).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jamieskella said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I'm not looking at any headphone for gaming exclusively; I just won't want to buy any headphone that's not _also_ good for gaming. Duly noted on the HD800S and TH900 combo, but I've caught 'the bug' and it's likely my collection will grow, to include a planar - there was a lot I enjoyed about the AR-H1, and a bunch of things I didn't... including gaming.


The Ananda makes for a spectacular gaming headphone, and I doubt the Arya would fare any worse.


----------



## 519514

@Fegefeuer @Mad Lust Envy after a ton more research and consideration of many reviews, I think the Ananda will likely be my purchase, over the Arya. The Arya seems to be technically superior, but also seems to be technically flawed in the high frequency range - I already have two headphones flawed in that department.  I think there'll be a much stronger chance that I don't feel the need to EQ the Ananda. Going to try both at a local store prior to picking one of them up.


----------



## SierraMadre

Fegefeuer said:


> Wonder if it transfers S-XFI/SBX over optical out.


Sound blaster Dev Support just answered a similar question on the official Reddit thread. Answer is no. SXFI is not supported via toslink out or line-out. It’s headphone out or bust for that.


----------



## TeeReQs

@jamieskella I'm guessing by your signature you went with the Ananda..How are they?


----------



## illram

SierraMadre said:


> Sound blaster Dev Support just answered a similar question on the official Reddit thread. Answer is no. SXFI is not supported via toslink out or line-out. It’s headphone out or bust for that.



That's weird. Seems like the one weakness of the SXFI dongle is no line out, but this desktop solution does not add that. 

X7 added SBX via optical out later, if I remember correctly. Maybe they will do the same with SXFI.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, we should probably bug them over at reddit or through MLE if it's worth it for this device.


----------



## Yethal

Or we could bug them here, iirc they have a headfi rep.
@LucasCL hello there


----------



## 519514 (Oct 1, 2019)

TeeReQs said:


> @jamieskella I'm guessing by your signature you went with the Ananda..How are they?



I'll answer by saying that after a few hours of use, the following idea has crossed my mind: I might sell my HD800S and TH900... or maybe not.  The attack and decay of planars put a massive, massive smile on my face. I'd say these things are EDM beasts, if you value accuracy over quantity. For me, I think there's still enough quantity. For rock and metal I'd love to see an extra ~2 dB boost in the 50-150Hz (or thereabouts) range to thicken up what I'm hearing. There are characteristics of these cans that remind me of the HD800S, but I'm enjoying these more - there's more life to them, despite remaining relatively neutral, without feeling like I'm missing out on detail. There's a bass quantity which the HD800S can't match without EQing it. As for the TH900, if want TH900 bass, I can kind-of get there via EQ if I'm in the mood for some bass-canon listening. Additionally, while these are quite bright and there's a lot of forward detail, to my ear there's no harsh treble peaks like what is present in the HD800S and TH900 (the TH900 especially).

The size of the driver also does something remarkable for music and gaming - it's quite an experience. I'm thoroughly enjoying these in Apex Legends right now, with no apparent positional audio compromises yet. More gaming time is needed, across more games including R6S where positional audio is so critical, but my initial impression is that I'm doing a better job of understanding player locations with these than my HD800S.

I'll let you know if I still hold these opinions after a few more days of use.

As for why I opted for Ananda over the Arya... in the store it sounded almost as if I were wearing the same headphone. I know 30 minutes in store isn't a good judge of nuance between such similar cans, nor trying to pick technical superiority between them, but I wasn't willing to spend an extra AU$1200 for something that might only _look_ much better. That said, I'm tempted to buy the Arya as well, returning the ones I like less, so I can give myself the time to see what differences I might discover with a few days of critical listening on both of them...






(For those with bad vision: Purple is Ananda, green is Arya. Source: https://www.headphones.com/blogs/news/hifiman-ananda-vs-arya-planar-headphone-review-comparison).


----------



## Fegefeuer

Keep the impressions coming!

Here's a review and comparison by that Resolv guy where he goes into detail in their differences. 



Interestingly he initially had the same experience like you, and in further and more thorough listening he made out the main differences and how they add up in the long run.

I never listened to the Arya and I'm simply not eager to buy anything Hifiman above 1000 since sooner or later that bracket will get trickle down tech through rather fast revisions. Also since I paid a very good price on the Ananda, I'd have to pay a thousand dollars upwards. I'd pnly pay that for a HEKSE.


----------



## 519514

@Fegefeuer what cables should I be getting for these Ananda's? Cheap is fine, because nothing can seem as cheap as the cables they ship with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 1, 2019)

@jamieskella

I bought this cable for the XX, which will also fit the Ananda, and it's a NICE cable. 9.9ft too. I got tired of the microphonics and cable memory that happens on the stock cables.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H6SPVX5/

For the price, it was a no brainer. Much better than the really short cable I bought for the HE400, which was more expensive and like 3ft. Much too short.


----------



## AudioManNewb

What are peoples thoughts on the Super X-fi vs WavesNX? Thinking of getting the knock off Mobius the cloud orbit s since I have no need for BT. Or quite possibly the Nighthawk with the sxfi amp I currently own the amp I have a addiction to taking headmaps.


----------



## 519514

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @jamieskella
> 
> I bought this cable for the XX, which will also fit the Ananda, and it's a NICE cable. 9.9ft too. I got tired of the microphonics and cable memory that happens on the stock cables.
> 
> ...



Brilliant, thanks - have just ordered one of those Neomusicia cables. 

Because it's not $400, it's not going to make my headphones sound better though, is it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Re-sleeve it with silver nylon, call it prestige, and charge a few hundred. It will surely sound better then.


----------



## TeeReQs

@jamieskella Thanks for the feedback! Anandas will definitely be on my list for cans to try in the future. I bought some HD700s recently, but the treble peak is a little fatiguing to me. I just bought a pair of HD800 w/ SDR mod, so I'm very excited to try those out.


----------



## Yethal

TeeReQs said:


> @jamieskella Thanks for the feedback! Anandas will definitely be on my list for cans to try in the future. I bought some HD700s recently, but the treble peak is a little fatiguing to me. I just bought a pair of HD800 w/ SDR mod, so I'm very excited to try those out.


If the treble on hd700 is too fatiguing for you, try the modhouse kit for the hd700


----------



## TeeReQs

Yethal said:


> If the treble on hd700 is too fatiguing for you, try the modhouse kit for the hd700



I thought about doing that since it's really cheap for the kit. Still might, just to try, but I've been wanting to try a pair of HD800, and I'm thinking I'll end up keeping them over the HD700 anyways. HD700 sure are comfy though!


----------



## Nemmera

TeeReQs said:


> @jamieskella Thanks for the feedback! Anandas will definitely be on my list for cans to try in the future. I bought some HD700s recently, but the treble peak is a little fatiguing to me. I just bought a pair of HD800 w/ SDR mod, so I'm very excited to try those out.



I was afraid of the harsh treble people have been talking about when it comes to HD700s, so I was pleasently surprised when I got mine and didn't find that to be the case with my setup.

I've used them with an op-amp swapped Nu Audio soundcard and a Xonar Essence III, both using MUSES02 op-amps. I think the warmer signature of these reigned the HD700s in a bit, even without EQing or modding.


----------



## TeeReQs

Nemmera said:


> I was afraid of the harsh treble people have been talking about when it comes to HD700s, so I was pleasently surprised when I got mine and didn't find that to be the case with my setup.
> 
> I've used them with an op-amp swapped Nu Audio soundcard and a Xonar Essence III, both using MUSES02 op-amps. I think the warmer signature of these reigned the HD700s in a bit, even without EQing or modding.



It's really not as bad as people make it out to be, but I do hear it in certain songs. They were a little fatiguing when I was playing the Modern Warfare Beta, compared to my HD598s. WIth that being said, I've been using them as my daily drivers for the past couple of weeks.


----------



## deucefive (Oct 2, 2019)

@Mad Lust Envy - love your reviews.  Recognizing most of these are ranked favorably (by you and others), may I please ask what you have you enjoyed the most from this list for gaming + music:

LCD GX 

LCD 2C
LCD X
Audeze Mobius
AKG K712 Pro
Hifiman Edition XX
Hifiman Ananda
Hifiman Arya
Sennheiser HD 800S
Beyer Dynamic DT 1770X Go
Volkyl Erupt (in case you had a listen from the initial tour)
I own the LCD2C, AKG K712 and Mobius, and I am debating what else would be the best addition to the lot (currently debating LCD X, LCD GX, Ananda, Edition XX and HD800S).  I am currently trying LCD GX with mixed results and expect Volkyl Erupt probably in late Q4.  I'm pretty treble-sensitive and love a liquid mid-range but surprisingly find AKG K712 pretty tolerable with both JDS EL Stack and Woo Audio WA7D (stock tubes). 

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## 519514 (Oct 2, 2019)

@deucefive MLE may have contradictory opinions, but here's how I'd rank those anyway, based on the ones I've owned and/or used for competitive gaming - excluding the ones I haven't:

Sennheiser HD 800 S (but I'd almost call them 'boring' for modern music genres)
Hifiman Ananda (excellent for music and excellent for experiential and competitive gaming - although the Arya is said to have a better soundstage and imaging, akin to HD 800 S)
DT 1770 (great imaging, but not a great stage as you can imagine as a closed back can)
LCD-X (I'd only considering using any of the LCD range for experiential gaming, not competitive gaming - LCD-GX is good for experiential gaming too)


----------



## Scriba

jamieskella said:


> @deucefive MLE may have contradictory opinions, but here's how I'd rank those anyway, based on the ones I've owned and/or used for competitive gaming - excluding the ones I haven't:
> 
> Sennheiser HD 800 S (but I'd almost call them 'boring' for modern music genres)
> Hifiman Ananda (excellent for music and excellent for experiential and competitive gaming - although the Arya is said to have a better soundstage and imaging, akin to HD 800 S)
> ...



As you rate the DT 1770 relative high, how would you rate the DT 1990 with better imaging and sound stage?


----------



## 519514 (Oct 3, 2019)

Scriba said:


> As you rate the DT 1770 relative high, how would you rate the DT 1990 with better imaging and sound stage?



I bought and sold my DT 1990 relatively quickly. I'm not sure I'd say it has better imaging than the 1770. Controversially, I don't actually think the 1770 or 1990 are particularly good headphones. They're 'premium' headphones, sure. They're made of excellent materials, come with a great range of accessories, and looks fancy af. Personally, I'd opt for cheaper Beyers and not miss any of the reasons I think they're more expensive (imo their added expense doesn't translate justifiably to their added degree of audio quality). I still own a pair of DT 770 Pros and they're 90% as fantastic as both of those - great for both experiential and competitive gaming.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 3, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> @deucefive
> 
> Sennheiser HD 800 S (but I'd almost call them 'boring' for modern music genres)


A half-decent tube amp might sort that out. Did for me.


----------



## 519514 (Oct 3, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> A half-decent tube amp might sort that out. Did for me.



I’ve tried them on half a dozen different DAC amp combos - they don’t change the fundamental complaints I have about the headphone. I had more luck applying some EQ than I did with tubes. Don’t get me wrong: they’re important and impressive - I’m glad I own them. Yes, they’re world-beating for a couple genres, but not for most others. They should also be every reviewer’s soundstage reference.


----------



## dakanao (Oct 4, 2019)

Alright, so I just got on Modern Warfare 2 on the xbox 360, played some Free for All and compared Ninja Pro vs Sitrep Pro (Ninja pro makes your footsteps silent, while Sitrep Pro makes your enemies footsteps louder), and to me it's clear that Ninja Pro is superior on that game, because Sitrep Pro doesn't always work on Ninja Pro users, and because that game has so many lines of sight and you need to rely on your reflexes more than any other cod I've played, all the footsteps you hear at once with Sitrep Pro slow down your reaction time and movement, getting you killed a lot more.

Used the Sennheiser HD 540 Gold btw, EXCELLENT imaging with a natural soundstage. The regular HD 540 goes for ~$100 a lot of the times, and at that price it's gotta be the best for imaging. Plus the sound is way more natural as well than the usually artificial sounding headphones found at that price, being in the league with the HD 650 yet with a lot less bass quantity and more treble, and obviously way better imaging.


----------



## deucefive

deucefive said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - love your reviews.  Recognizing most of these are ranked favorably (by you and others), may I please ask what you have you enjoyed the most from this list for gaming + music:
> 
> LCD GX
> 
> ...





jamieskella said:


> @deucefive MLE may have contradictory opinions, but here's how I'd rank those anyway, based on the ones I've owned and/or used for competitive gaming - excluding the ones I haven't:
> 
> Sennheiser HD 800 S (but I'd almost call them 'boring' for modern music genres)
> Hifiman Ananda (excellent for music and excellent for experiential and competitive gaming - although the Arya is said to have a better soundstage and imaging, akin to HD 800 S)
> ...





jamieskella said:


> I’ve tried them on half a dozen different DAC amp combos - they don’t change the fundamental complaints I have about the headphone. I had more luck applying some EQ than I did with tubes. Don’t get me wrong: they’re important and impressive - I’m glad I own them. Yes, they’re world-beating for a couple genres, but not for most others. They should also be every reviewer’s soundstage reference.



@jamieskella 

Thanks so much!  Your feedback is definitely appreciated and welcome as I'm debating between Ananda and HD800S. I had planned to use my JDS El Stack for the Ananda (but my EL Amp is giving me issues for my LCD2C, and I probably wouldn't use my Woo Audio WA7D with planars). 

With regard to the Ananda, what do you suggest as far as DAC/amps?   

Jotunheim with Multibit Module
THX 789 with Airist R2R DAC
Burson Conductor V3 (ESS Sabre DAC) - has a mic input for gaming!
IFI Micro iDSD Black Label (Burr Brown DAC)
Thanks again!


----------



## 519514 (Oct 7, 2019)

deucefive said:


> @jamieskella
> 
> Thanks so much!  Your feedback is definitely appreciated and welcome as I'm debating between Ananda and HD800S. I had planned to use my JDS El Stack for the Ananda (but my EL Amp is giving me issues for my LCD2C, and I probably wouldn't use my Woo Audio WA7D with planars).
> 
> ...



Modern planars aren’t too power hungry, and the Ananda is designed to be incredibly efficient - it works quite nicely even on smartphones.

I’m using a JDS Labs Element right now and it’s a perfectly fine match, I think. You can’t go wrong with the THX 789, but I doubt you’ll discern any real difference between that and the EL stack with the Ananda.

The Conductor V3 is very impressive, but also very expensive compared to options which should fare no worse for the Ananda. To what degree it would improve or change what you’re hearing, I can’t confirm (I have only used the V2 with different cans).


----------



## Fegefeuer

We know this already from all the interviews about the PS5 but it's good to have an official word:

-Custom SSD for ultra-high speed access
-AMD custom chip -CPU: x86-64-AMD Ryzen ™ “Zen2”, 8 cores / 16 threads
• GPU: AMD Radeon ™ RDNA (Radeon DNA) -based graphics engine

・* 3D audio processing unit*
　・ Up to 8K resolution output for games
　・ Designed for compatibility with PlayStation®4 titles
　・ PlayStation®VR compatible
● Controller
-Equipped with haptic technology - Adopting an adaptive trigger that makes L2 and R2 buttons feel resistance
● Physical media
・ Ultra HD Blu-ray
・ Capacity as a game disc is 100GB

SIE will create new experiences through PS5 and take entertainment to a higher level.


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> We know this already from all the interviews about the PS5 but it's good to have an official word:
> 
> -Custom SSD for ultra-high speed access
> -AMD custom chip -CPU: x86-64-AMD Ryzen ™ “Zen2”, 8 cores / 16 threads
> ...


Hopefully this means we can use regular stereo audio equipment and still have the virtual surround. However PS4 also has such unit integrated with the GPU and afaik the only game that used it was Thi4F.


----------



## illram

I think this is really going to depend on whether or not Sony or MS begin pushing more industry-wide 3D audio standards on their platforms, and whether or not they and Dolby and DTS make it easy for devs to incorporate these solutions. In other words this seems like a software problem rather than a hardware problem.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Cerny himself said that 3D Audio is a strong focus. 



> When speaking to Wired, Cerny conceded that there was a "frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4".
> 
> "With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it.”



As Yisl said, let's see how we can transport that 3D Audio to our stuff.


----------



## jbjs5820

Good morning, 
First post after reading so many pages of this forum.
I´ve recived my Creative SB X3.
I have to test it.
I have Ps4 / PC / MAC.

If you want to know anything specific, dont hesitate to ask.

Although i haven´t open the box... ehehe


----------



## Fegefeuer

Please check if you can output the SXFI processed signal over optical out, similar to the G6.


----------



## SierraMadre

Fegefeuer said:


> Please check if you can output the SXFI processed signal over optical out, similar to the G6.


You can’t. Creative dev team already said so a little while back on the official Sound Blaster thread on reddit.


----------



## jbjs5820

I have the G6 also. i will test it... you never know it might work.


----------



## deucefive

deucefive said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - love your reviews.  Recognizing most of these are ranked favorably (by you and others), may I please ask what you have you enjoyed the most from this list for gaming + music:
> 
> LCD GX
> 
> ...



@Mad Lust Envy your guidance/thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 10, 2019)

That list is full of headphones I have never heard. Out of the ones I have heard, I'd pick between the Edition XX and the Ananda. XX if you like more bass, Ananda if you want more neutrality. For my own preferences, I'd probably reach for the XX more than the Ananda, even though the Ananda is superior technically. Since you already have an LCD2, I'd probably tell you to get the more neutral Ananda since you already get plenty of bass heft from the LCD2.

I think right now, the Ananda is probably what I'd consider the most well rounded headphone I've heard in years, and my top recommendation this year. Mind you, based off PERSONAL experiences, in which I haven't had the chance to hear many, many current headphones that may compete with it.

Mind you, I'd still want to hear the LCD X, HD800/S, and HFM Arya, which I feel would shake some things up.


----------



## deucefive (Oct 11, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That list is full of headphones I have never heard. Out of the ones I have heard, I'd pick between the Edition XX and the Ananda. XX if you like more bass, Ananda if you want more neutrality. For my own preferences, I'd probably reach for the XX more than the Ananda, even though the Ananda is superior technically. Since you already have an LCD2, I'd probably tell you to get the more neutral Ananda since you already get plenty of bass heft from the LCD2.
> 
> I think right now, the Ananda is probably what I'd consider the most well rounded headphone I've heard in years, and my top recommendation this year. Mind you, based off PERSONAL experiences, in which I haven't had the chance to hear many, many current headphones that may compete with it.
> 
> Mind you, I'd still want to hear the LCD X, HD800/S, and HFM Arya, which I feel would shake some things up.



@Mad Lust Envy Great to hear.  As you recall your experience, would it be fair to say:  Ananda > Edition XX > AKG K712 > LCD GX > LCD2C? 

I appreciate your feedback as your preferences are pretty similar to mine -- I had the same impression of AKG K712 as you (until I had some rattle in right driver).  While LCD2C and LCD GX are both great, the weight is still a challenge for long sessions.   And no word on Volkyl Erupt yet.  As such, I'm considering some options above, including HD 800S (way too bright and expensive for my taste, but the comfort and pair with my tube + Astro Mixamp TR double amp seems like a good option/investment for gaming).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 11, 2019)

That is all subjective preference, and no I would not put them in that order. I wouldn't put them in any order because there all do things differently enough where I might like one for one thing, and another for another thing. I have not heard the LCD2C And I hear they're not actually the same as the LCD2 Rev 2s I reviewed, so I can't say anything about them.

All I'd say is that if I had to make one choice out of those, and not be able to hear any other, I'd probably take the Ananda because they do well enough for me in most aspects that I'd want a headphone to do well in.

Out of the ones I have experienced, as always. One of the others could very well be more favorable, I wouldn't know.

Right now, I'd wanna hear any of the Fostex TR-X00 variants that Drop sells ro see which gets closest to the Denon D7000, and pair them up with some Dekoni hybrid pads.


----------



## Thenewbie76

@Mad Lust Envy I have a question , I am having trouble between choosing a LCD 2 + TH 610 or  TH 900 MK2 ? I saw your review of the th 600 and you said at the end there are differences but you will only notice it over time. Thing is I have seen the tr x00 on massdrop and a few people have said good things about it and you can also game in it with virtual surround programme. Do you have a possible date of when you can get your hands on one of the  tr x00 variants? RN I am heavily leaning towards LCD2 but will postpone on any fostex purchase until you review the TR x00. If it helps my current HP are the CA cascade, fidelio x2, hd 600, akg 7xx, ZMF aeolus, hifiman X V2 and I  use solid states mainly the THX 789 and in the future I plan on getting a JDS labs atom.


----------



## deucefive

@Thenewbie76 I'll let Mad Lust Envy share his perspective.  

I'm just curious how you found Hifiman X V2 (HEXV2) for gaming as I am debating getting an Ananda, which supposedly is similar to HEXV2 but with less bass.  

I can't speak about LCD2, but LCD2C is pretty solid for gaming -- imaging is quite decent -- just the weight remains a challenge for gaming.


----------



## deucefive

@Mad Lust Envy - of course -- subjectivity is 'par for the course' with anything in audio -- so I am with you.  On that note, it is reassuring to know that Ananda left a differentiated impression on you from that select list, including the LCD GX (which seems to be somewhat comparable to Ananda in price, if not tonality).


----------



## Thenewbie76

deucefive said:


> @Thenewbie76 I'll let Mad Lust Envy share his perspective.
> 
> I'm just curious how you found Hifiman X V2 (HEXV2) for gaming as I am debating getting an Ananda, which supposedly is similar to HEXV2 but with less bass.
> 
> I can't speak about LCD2, but LCD2C is pretty solid for gaming -- imaging is quite decent -- just the weight remains a challenge for gaming.



Ok the last time I  tried the ananda was way way back this year so I can't remember much on the vocals and clarity, so on. The only thing I did remember was that the reason I chose the X V2 was because it was less bright than the Ananda which just hurt my ears , the X V2 when I was listening to music in the audio shop it had clearly better separation and soundstage making it feel "airy" in contrast to the ananda which were slightly just a tad bit intimate. When it comes to gaming the X V2 can definitely be played for competitive use with its big soundstage, only thing I will say that it sounds really "2d" like everything sounds on the same  level as me and I have a slightly hard time telling apart if its coming from below or above me . Though I was playing at the time using only stereo and not any virtual surround programme. Also you are right that the hex v2 has more bass.  

Mad lust envy has reviewed the LCD 2 and said its good enough for gaming so I am not suprised that the LCD 2C would be the same for gaming however when trying out today at the shop I felt that the LCD 2C was shouty as in one part of the song I played it just started to make my ears hurt but it was not treble , the LCD2 was just smoooth and buttery. Will be going back tmr to try again


----------



## AudioManNewb

jbjs5820 said:


> Good morning,
> First post after reading so many pages of this forum.
> I´ve recived my Creative SB X3.
> I have to test it.
> ...


What do you think of SBX surround vs Super X-fi surround?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 11, 2019)

I can't say when I'd be able to hear a Fostex TR-X00, as I haven't been in contact with anyone willing to send me a pair for review, and I'm not shopping around for any more headphones, considering I hardly use headphones outside of work. 

That being said, I'm considering getting Modern Warfare when it releases, and I may jump back in to a lot of headphone use at that point. We'll see.


----------



## Mrdobson

Question does the Burson play or playmate work with the ps4? Thanks


----------



## SierraMadre

Mrdobson said:


> Question does the Burson play or playmate work with the ps4? Thanks


It has USB-in so no reason why it shouldn’t. It has no virtual surround processing capabilities though so you’ll only be getting 2 channel stereo.


----------



## 519514 (Oct 13, 2019)

After a solid few days of Arya usage, it becomes very apparent where it creates distance between itself and the Ananda. Most notably, it excels in imaging and stage, rivaling my HD 800 S. As a byproduct, the Arya is slightly warmer than the Ananda, with mid-to-high frequencies less 'in your face'. Unlike the HD 800 S, I find the Arya well suited to a broad range of genres, with similarly brilliant detail retrieval. There's no doubt, the frequency response is far more to my liking. Whether the Arya is worth the price different of up to US$600 will be entirely subjective, but I can confidently say that for me there's no use case for my HD800S with the Arya in hand - the latter I find better for music of many genres, experiential gaming, and competitive gaming.

Some MiniDSP EARS measurements - Arya vs HD800 (not S) - for comparison...


----------



## SierraMadre

jamieskella said:


> After a solid few days of Arya usage, it becomes very apparent where it creates distance between itself and the Ananda. Most notably, it excels in imaging and stage, rivaling my HD 800 S. As a byproduct, the Arya is slightly warmer than the Ananda, with mid-to-high frequencies less 'in your face'. Unlike the HD 800 S, I find the Arya well suited to a broad range of genres, with similarly brilliant detail retrieval. There's no doubt, the frequency response is far more to my liking. Whether the Arya is worth the price different of up to US$600 will be entirely subjective, but I can confidently say that for me there's no use case for my HD800S with the Arya in hand - the latter I find better for music of many genres, experiential gaming, and competitive gaming.
> 
> Some MiniDSP EARS measurements - Arya vs HD800 (not S) - for comparison...


Out of curiosity, have you tried a compensated comparison for gaming? For example using Sonarworks Tru-fi, Equaliser APO etc. 
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

I don’t own the Arya but have tried one and also find it a better all rounder and generally more pleasant to listen to. The HD800s, I have to use a tube amp or compensation otherwise I find it too fatiguing. Were it not for those, I would have sold them but with tube and/or compensation, gaming and movies on the HD800s are the best I have experienced, especially when compensated. Compared to the Arya (also compensated) I still found the HD800s to have the more holographic soundstage and precise imaging (not that the Arya was bad, it was still excellent in its own right).


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Out of curiosity, have you tried a compensated comparison for gaming? For example using Sonarworks Tru-fi, Equaliser APO etc.
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
> 
> I don’t own the Arya but have tried one and also find it a better all rounder and generally more pleasant to listen to. The HD800s, I have to use a tube amp or compensation otherwise I find it too fatiguing. Were it not for those, I would have sold them but with tube and/or compensation, gaming and movies on the HD800s are the best I have experienced, especially when compensated. Compared to the Arya (also compensated) I still found the HD800s to have the more holographic soundstage and precise imaging (not that the Arya was bad, it was still excellent in its own right).


Try installing SuperDupont Resonator in the cups of hd800 to reduce fatigue


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> Try installing SuperDupont Resonator in the cups of hd800 to reduce fatigue


Thanks but it’s the HD800S I have, not the vanilla HD800.


----------



## Module (Oct 13, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> After a solid few days of Arya usage, it becomes very apparent where it creates distance between itself and the Ananda. Most notably, it excels in imaging and stage, rivaling my HD 800 S. As a byproduct, the Arya is slightly warmer than the Ananda, with mid-to-high frequencies less 'in your face'. Unlike the HD 800 S, I find the Arya well suited to a broad range of genres, with similarly brilliant detail retrieval. There's no doubt, the frequency response is far more to my liking. Whether the Arya is worth the price different of up to US$600 will be entirely subjective, but I can confidently say that for me there's no use case for my HD800S with the Arya in hand - the latter I find better for music of many genres, experiential gaming, and competitive gaming.
> 
> Some MiniDSP EARS measurements - Arya vs HD800 (not S) - for comparison...


 Can you please provide more depth comparison between Arya vs Ananda? Which one you prefer and more suitable for music of many genres, through I'm especially interested in music with busy mixes such as rock/metal? I heard Ananda has more bass and upfront sound signature, but Arya has more resolution being laid-back sounding. What about compression/dynamics? Also strange fact, people comparing these headphones often have opposite opinions about treble, some of them saying Ananda is too bright and they couldn't stand that treble, while others saying Arya has grain in its treble and tends to sibilant while Ananda is perfect smooth. Thanks in advance.


----------



## 519514 (Oct 13, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> Out of curiosity, have you tried a compensated comparison for gaming? For example using Sonarworks Tru-fi, Equaliser APO etc.
> 
> ... Compared to the Arya (also compensated) I still found the HD800s to have the more holographic soundstage and precise imaging (not that the Arya was bad, it was still excellent in its own right).



I've used Sonarworks briefly, and Equaliser APO extensively. Part of my mission was find a pair of headphones that I didn't need to EQ, yet retained all of the qualities - for both competitive gaming and music - that I was after. I would agree there's something that feels more 'holographic' about the HD 800 S; there still seems to be a greater sense of spacial depth using them. Ultimately, it still has a larger stage, even than the Arya which is better than most other headphones in this department. However, the HD 800 S has a bit of a slump in the vicinity of ~2-3kHz, which is often a part of the range where effects such as footsteps reside, perhaps creating a sense of extended distance. Contrasted with other parts of the frequency response, I think this slump may play a role in why the HD 800 S stage presents the way it does. I actually bump my HD 800 S a dB or two in that range. Coincidentally, metal571 had done the same with his HD 800.



Module said:


> Can you please provide more depth comparison between Arya vs Ananda? Which one you prefer and more suitable for music of many genres, through I'm especially interested in music with busy mixes such as rock/metal? I heard Ananda has more bass and upfront sound signature, but Arya has more resolution being laid-back sounding. What about compression/dynamics? Also strange fact, people comparing these headphones often have opposite opinions about treble, some of them saying Ananda is too bright and they couldn't stand that treble, while others saying Arya has grain in its treble and tends to sibilant while Ananda is perfect smooth. Thanks in advance.



My preference for metal are headphones that don't have a neutral low end. Instead, I find a bass boost in the range of ~50Hz-150Hz does wonders for thickening up geners like metal, which can otherwise sound a touch too thin for my liking on brighter cans (depending on the band and how it's mastered). Thus, I'd say that both the Arya and Ananda are not ideal for metal, at least according to my preference, unless you're willing to EQ them. I feel the same about my HD 800 S (but to an even greater degree). Generally, I think the Arya is a better choice than Ananda for a broader range of musical genres because of how it presents high frequencies - I'll elaborate on this below.

It must be said I listen to very little metal, though. I enjoy quite a bit of acoustic and brass, including jazz, as well as a lot of alt rock, electronic, and EDM. The Arya, while it doesn't have the pronounced sub-bass of my TH-900, completely satisfies me across all of these genres. I enjoyed rock and EDM less on the Ananda. The speed, decay, separation etc. that high-end planars sport are sonic characteristics that "wow" me far more than having my head rattle with Fostex drivers.

I don't find either the Ananda or Arya to be sibilant. Neither are simply too bright either, in my opinion. However, using "Unsainted" from Slipknot's latest album as an example, this track sounds a touch harsh with both the Ananda and Arya. That track is similarly harsh wearing the HD 800 S, and is _horribly_ harsh with the TH-900 (I'd say it's un-listenable, without EQ).

Higher frequencies sound obviously more forward on the Ananda at a similar overall listening volume, seemingly permanently so, but I didn't find any harshness to speak of with most music despite that. This apparent forwardness may be because of the more intimate stage, or perhaps the stage feels more intimate because of this property? Detail lovers will likely love this facet of the Ananda, despite it not actually being more detailed in an honest sense of the definition. Relating to this point, I wouldn't call the Arya 'laid-back', I'd simply say I feel the Arya is better balanced than Ananda, with the presentation of higher frequencies making more 'natural' sense in the context of everything else you're hearing. If I was to try to describe this very crudely, I'd say that "the Ananda's treble is louder", despite that not being reflected in FR.

Finally, you'd have to try pretty hard to discern meaningful bass quantity differences between the Arya and Ananda. They're very similar in this regard. Because the Arya's higher frequencies aren't so forward, I'd actually say the Arya might deliver the superficial perception of having meatier bass, but it's really only because overall it sounds a bit warmer.

The difference between them is nuanced, yet obvious. I don't think it's a case of one being objectively and outright better than the other (it rarely is with comparisons in the US$1000+ category), but because of the Arya's combination of traits - being similar to the Ananda, but with a bigger stage among other differences or improvements - it's better for me, as it single-handedly covers all of my favourite genres and use cases, such as gaming.

Edit: might also be worth mentioning that the Arya does seem to require a fair amount more power. On my JDS Labs Elements I can run the Ananda on low gain at all times - this is to be expected, as the Ananda has a thinner diaphragm and is more efficient, better suited to be powered from mobile devices. Running the Arya on low gain means I'm often running out of volume, so I run it on high gain permanently. The Arya's drivers are also larger: 65 X 100 mm versus the Ananda's 50 X 80 mm.


----------



## Module (Oct 14, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> My preference for metal are headphones that don't have a neutral low end. Instead, I find a bass boost in the range of ~50Hz-150Hz does wonders for thickening up geners like metal, which can otherwise sound a touch too thin for my liking on brighter cans (depending on the band and how it's mastered). Thus, I'd say that both the Arya and Ananda are not ideal for metal, at least according to my preference, unless you're willing to EQ them. I feel the same about my HD 800 S (but to an even greater degree). Generally, I think the Arya is a better choice than Ananda for a broader range of musical genres because of how it presents high frequencies - I'll elaborate on this below.
> 
> It must be said I listen to very little metal, though. I enjoy quite a bit of acoustic and brass, including jazz, as well as a lot of alt rock, electronic, and EDM. The Arya, while it doesn't have the pronounced sub-bass of my TH-900, completely satisfies me across all of these genres. I enjoyed rock and EDM less on the Ananda. The speed, decay, separation etc. that high-end planars sport are sonic characteristics that "wow" me far more than having my head rattle with Fostex drivers.
> 
> ...



Thanks for detailed answer! You said you like Arya more than Ananda for rock, why so? BTW, there is much difference in engaging factor between them in these genres? Simply that post-rock/post-metal is my main genres, maybe also orchestral and I'm so torn between Ananda and Arya. HIFIMAN gives me opportunity to upgrade my RMA'd Sundara to Ananda for $250 or to Arya for $1000 and I'm willing to upgrade. So 4x price, from value perspective, I think Ananda is more steal for added $250 than Arya for $1000 from what I've read so far, but I mean if Ananda couldn't do well post-rock/post-meta, while Arya can and do it very well, then to hell with it, I'd go straight for the Arya and call it end-game.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 13, 2019)

jamieskella said:


> I've used Sonarworks briefly, and Equaliser APO extensively. Part of my mission was find a pair of headphones that I didn't need to EQ, yet retained all of the qualities - for both competitive gaming and music - that I was after. I would agree there's something that feels more 'holographic' about the HD 800 S; there still seems to be a greater sense of spacial depth using them. Ultimately, it still has a larger stage, even than the Arya which is better than most other headphones in this department. However, the HD 800 S has a bit of a slump in the vicinity of ~2-3kHz, which is often a part of the range where effects such as footsteps reside, perhaps creating a sense of extended distance. Contrasted with other parts of the frequency response, I think this slump may play a role in why the HD 800 S stage presents the way it does. I actually bump my HD 800 S a dB or two in that range. Coincidentally, metal571 had done the same with his HD 800..


The question was simply in respect to a compensated / ‘flattened’ comparison for gaming and cinema rather than general usage. Compensation making the HD800S tolerable/non-fatiguing for my ears is just a bonus in this context, the crux of the question being to do with the ability of the headphones to best render virtual surround sound as the general consensus / accepted wisdom among users and players in the industry appears to be that flattening the headphones’ response curve produces the most holographic and accurate positioning positioning and imaging when rendering virtual surround sound. THe Smyth Realiser utilises headphone specific compensation profiles for this reason, as does Creative’s Super X-if with its ‘Super X-fi certified’ headphone profiles and additionally one of the other users on this thread mentioned that the guys at DTS are seeking to incorporate the feature into DTS Virtual X headphone too for the same reason.

In any case, thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## 519514 (Oct 14, 2019)

Module said:


> Thanks for detailed answer! You said you like Arya more than Ananda for rock. BTW, there is much difference in engaging factor between them in these genres? Simply that post-rock/post-metal is my main genres, maybe also orchestral and I'm so torn between Ananda and Arya. HIFIMAN gives me opportunity to upgrade my RMA'd Sundara to Ananda for $250 or to Arya for $1000 and I'm willing to upgrade. So 4x price, from value perspective, I think Ananda is more steal for added $250 than Arya for $1000 from what I've read so far, but I mean if Ananda couldn't do well post-rock/post-meta, while Arya can and do it very well, then to hell with it, I'd go straight for the Arya and call it end-game.



The Ananda may be perceived more engaging because of it's up-front high frequencies. The Arya might be perceived as more engaging because of it's stage. Yet, both could be detractors, depending on your sonic preference. Is it possible for you to find a place stocking both to do a side-by-side comparison? Sitting them both side-by-side, the Ananda is incredible value. However, if that extra $750 is an amount you can spend without gritting your teeth and living off of instant ramen for the coming months, then perhaps a decision based on value alone is not the right lens to look at your purchase through. Good value is important with any purchase, but the performance-price ratio will almost always yield diminishing returns post a ~US$300 pair of headphones in my opinion, and value is subjective. For what it's worth, I feel the build quality and aesthetic of the Arya is also markedly better than the Ananda.




SierraMadre said:


> The question was simply in respect to a compensated / ‘flattened’ comparison for gaming and cinema rather than general usage. Compensation making the HD800S tolerable/non-fatiguing for my ears is just a bonus in this context, the crux of the question being to do with the ability of the headphones to best render virtual surround sound as the general consensus / accepted wisdom among users and players in the industry appears to be that flattening the headphones’ response curve produces the most holographic and accurate positioning positioning and imaging when rendering virtual surround sound. THe Smyth Realiser utilises headphone specific compensation profiles for this reason, as does Creative’s Super X-if with its ‘Super X-fi certified’ headphone profiles and additionally one of the other users on this thread mentioned that the guys at DTS are seeking to incorporate the feature into DTS Virtual X headphone too for the same reason.



Because most of my gaming is competitive in nature, and I periodically still play tournaments at LAN, I don't want to use anything that fundamentally changes game audio (that isn't controllable within the game itself). Rocking up to play in a finals event and hearing things very differently, perhaps worse, is a great to way to ensure a quick exit from the tournament. I'd prefer to take a slight hit in positional accuracy potential, if it means the positional cues I'm hearing remain consistent regardless of which computer I'm on.


----------



## Module

jamieskella said:


> The Ananda may be perceived more engaging because of it's up-front high frequencies. The Arya might be perceived as more engaging because of it's stage. Yet, both could be detractors, depending on your sonic preference. Is it possible for you to find a place stocking both to do a side-by-side comparison? Sitting them both side-by-side, the Ananda is incredible value. However, if that extra $750 is an amount you can spend without gritting your teeth and living off of instant ramen for the coming months, then perhaps a decision based on value alone is not the right lens to look at your purchase through. Good value is important with any purchase, but the performance-price ratio will almost always yield diminishing returns post a ~US$300 pair of headphones in my opinion, and value is subjective. For what it's worth, I feel the build quality and aesthetic of the Arya is also markedly better than the Ananda.


 Thanks, it's really helpful to making decision. Do you think JDS Objective 2 will be able to drive Aryas properly? It runs Sundara at low gain with some headroom.


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## 519514 (Oct 14, 2019)

Module said:


> Thanks, it's really helpful to making decision. Do you think JDS Objective 2 will be able to drive Aryas properly? It runs Sundara at low gain with some headroom.



The Sundara and Arya have rather similar power requirements: 37 ohms and 94 dB vs. 35 ohms and 90 dB, respectively... I suspect you'll probably be fine on the Objective 2.

Edit: actually, on second thought, considering the O2's max power at 32 ohms is 0.6 W (whereas it's 1.5 W on my JDS Labs Element), you may be cutting it very fine in respect to whether you can get enough volume out of it for your liking.


----------



## deucefive

jamieskella said:


> I've used Sonarworks briefly, and Equaliser APO extensively. Part of my mission was find a pair of headphones that I didn't need to EQ, yet retained all of the qualities - for both competitive gaming and music - that I was after. I would agree there's something that feels more 'holographic' about the HD 800 S; there still seems to be a greater sense of spacial depth using them. Ultimately, it still has a larger stage, even than the Arya which is better than most other headphones in this department. However, the HD 800 S has a bit of a slump in the vicinity of ~2-3kHz, which is often a part of the range where effects such as footsteps reside, perhaps creating a sense of extended distance. Contrasted with other parts of the frequency response, I think this slump may play a role in why the HD 800 S stage presents the way it does. I actually bump my HD 800 S a dB or two in that range. Coincidentally, metal571 had done the same with his HD 800.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great to hear, @jamieskella -- coincidentally, I'm still on the fence related to same headphones.  If you had to start over, would you pick the Arya (over HD800S and Ananda) and a decent DAC/amp (THX 789 + Airist R2R) + external mic (USB or ModMic 5.0), and call it a day as far as gaming and music?  Thanks!


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## SierraMadre (Oct 14, 2019)

So I got the Soundblaster  X3. I already have the SXFI Amp and Sound Blaster G6.

I don’t regret it and it provides what I bought it for, the 7.1 analogue out and Dolby Digital encoding and SXFI capability but otherwise it’s a bit underwhelming albeit predictably so given the specs and the info released this far. It’s basically the weaker specc’d love child of the SXFI dongle and the G6 / X7.

The big disappointment is less the weaker spec but rather that the new Sound Blaster Command control software adding no extra customisation or features to the SXFI element. It’s still just EQ profiles and headphone compensation profiles. Unlike with the Audeze Mobius and it’s reverb / room effect slider, SBX with its surround intensity slider or Sennheiser GSX with its 3 degrees of reverb, using the X3 for SXFI offers no capacity for adjustment to the VSS algorithm’s implementation. Also , SXFI cannot be pushed out of the front channel analogue-out or optical out. The next stage in SXFI’s evolution this is not.

That being said, for those who want a versatile all-in-one it’s a good buy and cheaper than the SXFI dongle, especially if bought with the Soundblaster upgrade 15% discount. For those not concerned with discounts, all-in-one convenience, 7.1 analogue out and Dolby Encoding though, I’d recommend the X7 or G6 plus SXFI amp/dongle over this. Similarly if you already have one of the aforementioned SBX predecessor dac/amps and are looking to dip your toes into SXFI then just get the SXFI AMP dongle if you don’t mind paying a bit more, and vice versa too, if you have the SXFI AMP dongle and are looking for a SBX dac/amp, just get the G6 or X7. As far as a SBX and SXFI dac/amp goes, the X3 is a competent jack of all trades but master of none.


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## 519514 (Oct 14, 2019)

deucefive said:


> Great to hear, @jamieskella -- coincidentally, I'm still on the fence related to same headphones.  If you had to start over, would you pick the Arya (over HD800S and Ananda) and a decent DAC/amp (THX 789 + Airist R2R) + external mic (USB or ModMic 5.0), and call it a day as far as gaming and music?  Thanks!



This year I've owned Beyerdynamic MMX 300, Beyer  DT 1990, Acoustic Research AR-H1, Audio Technica ATH-AD700X, Sennheiser HD 800 S, Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, Fostex TH-900, Hifiman Ananda, and Hifiman Arya. I've used many, many more for music, but hadn't had the chance to test those many more for gaming.

Starting over, having been through that lineup of cans - if you're hoping to find a single pair that achieves zero-compromise outcomes for both music and competitive gaming (according to my taste and preference, at least) - yes, I'd simply go straight to the Arya. If you want a collection of headphones because you've caught the bug, or you prefer cans that do certain things incredibly well (at the expense of other things), such as the sub-bass of the TH-900, you'd likely still buy multiple pairs, regardless. As for microphone, I use a Razer Seiren Elite on a Rode boom arm. If you travel with the headphones, a ModMic makes more sense.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Spoke to Audeze after seeing the new LCD-1 here, and should expect it to come my way in the near future. I'll keep you guys updated. At around 250g, this will be the first truly lightweight Audeze in full sized enclosure, which should hopefully make for a good recommendation for long gaming sessions. I'm excited.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Looking forward to your impressions.

Metal praised the sharp and clear imaging, however soundstage wise it wasn't above HD 650 size, at least cohorent and not 3 blob.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 17, 2019)

I never expect much in terms of soundstage for Audeze, considering their inherent house sound. But virtual surround usually mitigates those deficiencies enough that they don't bother me all too much. But yeah, it's definitely not one of their strong suits, so those looking for soundstaging should probably look elsewhere in general. I'm interested in how similar it can get to the Mobius, without the obvious benefits of all the options the Mobius has, but in place, has the strengths of a traditional, wired design, which will benefit from external source/amps much more.

I admit I'm not the BIGGEST fan of the Mobius style headband, mainly because the typical LCD headband design is so...perfect. Not sure how that design could be possible on a plastic frame however.

I like their decision to go with dual 3.5mm input. I have one I'm using with the Ed. XX that I like so much in case this one is junk, though I doubt it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'll try to grab a LCD-1 and check it out too.


----------



## illram

SierraMadre said:


> Also , SXFI cannot be pushed out of the front channel analogue-out or optical out.



Thank you for confirming that (particularly the front channel out, I was wondering that when I saw the quick start guide). Seems like a really silly thing to overlook, such that it seems like an intentional omission by Creative. Puzzling.


----------



## Snikibiki (Oct 19, 2019)

...


----------



## SierraMadre

illram said:


> Thank you for confirming that (particularly the front channel out, I was wondering that when I saw the quick start guide). Seems like a really silly thing to overlook, such that it seems like an intentional omission by Creative. Puzzling.


The analogue outs are purely there for the discrete 5.1 / 7.1 hookup it would seem. One good thing is it has a Bluetooth mobile sound blaster command app so you don’t necessarily have to be connected to a PC. However, the stupid thing is that the mobile app doesn’t offer any control of the SBX processing effects, only the SXFI feature suite (and as previously discussed, just like the AMP and other SXFI products before the X3, there is practically no tweaking the way the SXFI VSS is implemented other than EQ adjustments). You have to be connected to the PC control panel to access the SBX feature suite.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Hey everybody,

I am member 216 for the crowd funded headphones Vokyl Erupts . I just received mine yesterday. I am going to be making some videos about them (I'm not an audiophile) just to show those who are waiting for theirs to come in what they look like in the wild. (I paid for mine, not sponsored and didn't get them for free). I wasn't 100% on the rules about posting links so I just wanted to check to see if it was cool if I put a link in here or not. I'm not a professional youtuber and not trying to "get views"  Just wanted to share with those interested. I will post  some pictures  later today after work.


----------



## Snikibiki (Oct 18, 2019)

In my game weapons are sooo loud compared to footsteps. The more lacking bass, the better for headphones to minimalize the difference? Or just easier to hear and locate direction of footsteps? For these purposes k702/k701 without humps, or ad700x will be better, or something other? 330$ budget for only headphones


----------



## Yedaself

Hi, I am totally a noob about full sized headphones and never used one but now I need a wireless solution to use for mostly Netflix on ps4. I don't play competitive FPS games. Which wireless headphones are compatible with ps4 for max $150?


----------



## deucefive

It is not looking so good for those who are waiting for the Vokyl Erupt.  What a bummer.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Yedaself said:


> Hi, I am totally a noob about full sized headphones and never used one but now I need a wireless solution to use for mostly Netflix on ps4. I don't play competitive FPS games. Which wireless headphones are compatible with ps4 for max $150?


Does the PS4 come with Bluetooth?
Or get an adapter that takes in an optical signal and outputs Bluetooth.
PS4 > optical Bluetooth adapter > wireless headphones.


----------



## AppleheadMay

PurpleAngel said:


> Does the PS4 come with Bluetooth?
> Or get an adapter that takes in an optical signal and outputs Bluetooth.
> PS4 > optical Bluetooth adapter > wireless headphones.



It does come with Bluetooth, I connected a Bluetooth keybopard to it.
Not sure it works fopr audio as well but I suppose so, aren't the PS4 headphones Bluetooth as well?


----------



## headphonesonly

PS4 can’t output audio via Bluetooth. You can get one of those usb Bluetooth receivers


----------



## Fegefeuer

creative bt-w2 should work very well


----------



## Yedaself

Thank you all. I am gonna look for usb bluetooth audio transceivers and at least decent wireless headphones.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 23, 2019)

I should be receiving the LCD-1 tomorrow. Between that and Modern Warfare, gonna be a good weekend....

I did lose my PortaPro wireless though. FeelsBadMan


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## themrmikemcd (Oct 28, 2019)

Quick vocal erupt headphone first impressions: they sound really good with the default pads which are not the same ones they used for the Prototype. The solid pads are horrendous sounding and just muffles everything the wires they used are thin and cheap and both set of wires have volume rockers on them? 

Over all I love the sound but the build quality and changes they made to the pads and wires is very disappointing. If the wires break I don't even know if you can get replacements since they made them and you can't buy genetic wires to replace them from what everyone else is saying.

they have a nice thump to them bass wise and music sounds great. Imaging is good. Soundstage is nothing like the prototype.  Not bad.,Just not Amazballs.**Edit** The color option change was my fault. I forgot they sent out a questionnaire And I changed my color choice. Completely forgot about that.****


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got the Audeze package today. Sadly I had to do a 14 hour shift today so I couldn't even open the packaging before I had to run off to work. I'll try and get the initial stuff done tomorrow morning.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 24, 2019)

Yedaself said:


> Thank you all. I am gonna look for usb bluetooth audio transceivers and at least decent wireless headphones.


Just so you know, if you go the generic dongle plus generic wireless headphones route, you won’t get virtual surround sound out of all games, only those that feature virtual  surround already preprogrammed in by the game’s developers.

The PS4 can only output two channel stereo via USB / over Bluetooth, if the game has it preprogrammed in, fine, if not then you will be stuck with vanilla stereo with stereo imaging and cues only.

For guaranteed virtual surround sound, one needs either a dac/amp that supports optical input with Dolby digital 5.1 decoding, an A.V. receiver that takes multichannel audio from HDMI and converts it into virtual surround for headphone output (e.g. Yamaha’s “Silent Cinema”), or, one of the official PlayStation wireless headsets that feature Sony’s house virtual surround sound solution. AFAIK, the aforementioned Sony headsets are the only way to guarantee virtual surround sound from PS4 through USB / Bluetooth.


----------



## TeeReQs

Anybody used the wireless modmic? I know it's expensive, but having one less cable to deal with would be nice. I need a mic for my new HD800


----------



## Yedaself

SierraMadre said:


> Just so you know, if you go the generic dongle plus generic wireless headphones route, you won’t get virtual surround sound out of all games, only those that feature virtual  surround already preprogrammed in by the game’s developers.
> 
> The PS4 can only output two channel stereo via USB / over Bluetooth, if the game has it preprogrammed in, fine, if not then you will be stuck with vanilla stereo with stereo imaging and cues only.
> 
> For guaranteed virtual surround sound, one needs either a dac/amp that supports optical input with Dolby digital 5.1 decoding, an A.V. receiver that takes multichannel audio and converts it into virtual surround for headphone output (e.g. Yamaha’s “Silent Cinema”, or, one of the official PlayStation wireless headsets that feature Sony’s house virtual surround sound solution. AFAIK, the aforementioned Sony headsets are the only way to guarantee virtual surround sound from PS4 through USB / Bluetooth.


I don't want to buy a gaming headphone but looks like road is going there. As I read, headphone should be connected to a USB port on Ps4 to get virtual surround. So, looks like I have 3 options.

Wireless gaming headphones like Arctis 7
Sony Gold
A wired headphone with really large Soundstage which plugged in to dualshock.
What is the most reasonable solution?


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Just so you know, if you go the generic dongle plus generic wireless headphones route, you won’t get virtual surround sound out of all games, only those that feature virtual  surround already preprogrammed in by the game’s developers.
> 
> The PS4 can only output two channel stereo via USB / over Bluetooth, if the game has it preprogrammed in, fine, if not then you will be stuck with vanilla stereo with stereo imaging and cues only.
> 
> For guaranteed virtual surround sound, one needs either a dac/amp that supports optical input with Dolby digital 5.1 decoding, an A.V. receiver that takes multichannel audio and converts it into virtual surround for headphone output (e.g. Yamaha’s “Silent Cinema”, or, one of the official PlayStation wireless headsets that feature Sony’s house virtual surround sound solution. AFAIK, the aforementioned Sony headsets are the only way to guarantee virtual surround sound from PS4 through USB / Bluetooth.


There is also the "buy G6 and wireless headphones with optical input such as higher end Senns and output SBX to them" route.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 24, 2019)

Yethal said:


> There is also the "buy G6 and wireless headphones with optical input such as higher end Senns and output SBX to them" route.


True but that would be needlessly convoluted and expensive unless one just had to have SBX over ASTRO’s Dolby, Steel Series’s DTS Headphone virtual X or Sony’s house VSS and 3D Audio.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 24, 2019)

Yedaself said:


> I don't want to buy a gaming headphone but looks like road is going there. As I read, headphone should be connected to a USB port on Ps4 to get virtual surround. So, looks like I have 3 options.
> 
> Wireless gaming headphones like Arctis 7
> Sony Gold
> ...


You were misinformed about surround for PS4 with USB. The only headphones that can do that for PS4 are Sony’s because somewhere between the PS and the proprietary USB wireless dongle that comes with the Sony headphones, the discrete multichannel surround sound tracks of games are decoded and converted into virtual surround sound.

Otherwise, USB only provides two channel audio from PS (or indeed any console at the moment). That means that any DAC/amp connected via USB will only get two channel. If a game does not already have virtual surround mixing then a DAC/AMP that can decode the Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 intended for a discrete / physical multichannel surround setup and convert it to virtual surround sound is required. That’s why the better wireless dac /amps for console have optical in so that they can receive, decode and convert a Dolby digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 surround track and convert it into virtual surround.

As for wired headphones plugged into dual shock, that will only give 2 channel stereo thus, again, unless the game you are playing which has a pre-programmed virtual surround mix, you won’t get virtual surround.

If you are going with Sony, then get the Platinum wireless as it supports 3D object based audio mixes (including height effects) for certain titles such as Uncharted 4, God of War and Horizon Zero Dawn. Just be sure to get them off Amazon or somewhere that offers no hassle returns in case you don’t like them or there are any problems.

As to what you should go for, that depends on your needs. But, assuming wireless is the priority and you only care about surround sound on PS4, then try the Platinum wireless headset first. It’s  by far the cheapest solution and is also the only one that will give you 3D audio (albeit only for certain games). The PS headset app also has developer made EQ profiles for certain games.

if, on the other hand, you want a solution that can be used to get surround from other devices, such as Xbox, DVD/Bluray players, TVs that can output Dolby a Digital 5.1 via optical, or PCs that can output multichannel surround and high resolution audio via USB, then the Arctis Pro with Gamedac or the ASTRO A50s are your best bet.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 24, 2019)

Screw all that. Get the cheapest virtual surround dac/amp you can find like the G6, and a aux/optical receiver/transmitter that does apt-X Low Latency, with headphones that supports apt-X LL (Like Grado's GW100). you'll have virtual surround there from the PS4's Dolby Digital out to the G6.

Or, you can just buy an Astro Mixamp 5.8, which are going cheap on Ebay atm. Then you can just use any wired headphone wirelessly. I'd make sure to buy a rechargable battery pack for it though.

Honestly y'all should be snatching those Mixamp 5.8s up. They used to go for like $200. What they're going for even used is a steal. Just make sure it comes with both RX and TX units.

I already have one and feel like buying another just to have as a backup. Yes they're a little hissy, but nothing to complain about with the versatility you get. Easily the best thing to have outside of an X7.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 25, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Screw all that. Get the cheapest virtual surround dac/amp you can find like the G6, and a aux/optical receiver/transmitter that does apt-X Low Latency, with headphones that supports apt-X LL (Like Grado's GW100). you'll have virtual surround there from the PS4's Dolby Digital out to the G6.
> 
> Or, you can just buy an Astro Mixamp 5.8, which are going cheap on Ebay atm. Then you can just use any wired headphone wirelessly. I'd make sure to buy a rechargable battery pack for it though.
> 
> ...


The mix amp 5.8 isn’t a bad idea provided you don’t get one with the bass hitching like I did (it’s a known problem with the first iteration)  but the G6 + aux/optical transmitter *+* wireless headphones stacks up the  expense quite a bit.
Have you tried the Platinum wireless? They’re actually not at all bad, Sony’s house vanilla VSS is excellent and they’re the only way to get 3D audio out of PS exclusives, and they can be had for well under 100 if one shops around.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> True but that would be needlessly convoluted and expensive unless one just had to have SBX over ASTRO’s Dolby, Steel Series’s DTS Headphone virtual X or Sony’s house VSS and 3D Audio.


Or you just wanted a pair of headphones that don't sound like crap or work with devices other than PS4 and games other than Uncharted 4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 25, 2019)

First things first on the LCD-1, it's marginally smaller than the Mobius, and that includes the pads. Think of something between Creative Aurvana Live to ATH-M50 sized pads give or take, with no real intuitive way to fit pads not made for the LCD-1. (they snap on, and the outer rim doesn't have anywhere pads can latch on to). So pad swapping may need some extra finessing/glue/tape.
I haven't had any time with them otherwise as I'm on the run, but yeah, wanted to point that out...

The headband is also a little different from the Mobius, in that it's not the same at all. The padding on it is also wider, so it should lead to less of a hotspot in comparison to the Mobius headband.


----------



## illram (Oct 25, 2019)

Here's a question I've been batting around in my head for a little bit: Assume a headphone has top-tier imaging and detail. For the purposes of virtual surround, with the right EQ, crossfade, etc., that headphone's particular soundstage qualities can be rendered meaningless. E.g. a headphone with a "narrow" stage when just run without any EQ or DSP can still fake a big stage, if you want, assuming its imaging is good enough and you run the appropriate DSP.

Is that true or false? I feel like this has been touched on before but I don't know if there's a definitive answer. I personally feel like this is true. E.g. the ESP950 sounds great with VSS but is not known for its soundstage really.


----------



## Yethal (Oct 25, 2019)

illram said:


> Here's a question I've been batting around in my head for a little bit: Assume a headphone has top-tier imaging and detail. For the purposes of virtual surround, with the right EQ, crossfade, etc., that headphone's particular soundstage qualities can be rendered meaningless. E.g. a headphone with a "narrow" stage when just run without any EQ or DSP can still fake a big stage, if you want, assuming its imaging is good enough and you run the appropriate DSP.
> 
> Is that true or false? I feel like this has been touched on before but I don't know if there's a definitive answer. I personally feel like this is true. E.g. the ESP950 sounds great with VSS but is not known for its soundstage really.


False. My Clears have a narrow soundstage and with SBX added it's still narrow. $120 PC37X outperforms them when it comes to positioning in virtual surround



Mad Lust Envy said:


> First things first on the LCD-1, it's marginally smaller than the Mobius, and that includes the pads. Think of something between Creative Aurvana Live to ATH-M50 sized pads give or take, with no real intuitive way to fit pads not made for the LCD-1. (they snap on, and the outer rim doesn't have anywhere pads can latch on to). So pad swapping may need some extra finessing/glue/tape.
> I haven't had any time with them otherwise as I'm on the run, but yeah, wanted to point that out...
> 
> The headband is also a little different from the Mobius, in that it's not the same at all. The padding on it is also wider, so it should lead to less of a hotspot in comparison to the Mobius headband.



Interesting, from the initial pictures they seemed to be using the same basic frame as the mobius


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 25, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Or you just wanted a pair of headphones that don't sound like crap or work with devices other than PS4 and games other than Uncharted 4.


Well, granted the Sony doesn’t offer surround outside of PlayStation 4 usage, but it can be used for non-surround purposes with devices other than PS and it is not the case that it only offers surround for games like Uncharted 4. Sony’s VSS algorithm works for any game played on PS4. It is the 3D, object based audio with height effects that is confined to certain big Sony exclusives and for those the Platinum headset is the only way to get 3D audio fullstop.

Moreover, as for “sounding like crap”, while I would always recommend a good pair of open-backed non-gaming headphones over a gaming headset in any general scenario, I don’t subscribe to the notion that gaming headset automatically = “crap sound”, not least because I’ve tried most of the options discussed (platinum, Astro, Arctis and Sennheiser RS195). For a first time buyer whose priorities are PS4 and wireless, the Platinum headset offers decent audio, is an all-in-one solution with respect to surround and mic and is relatively very cheap. While a G6 plus wireless Senns with optical in plus Modmic may offer better audio quality, I wouldn’t say they sound three times better or anywhere near that which is what the difference in cost would be.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Well, the
> 
> Well, granted the Sony doesn’t offer surround outside of PlayStation 4 usage, it can be used for non-surround purposes with devices other than PS and it is not the case that it only offers surround for games like Uncharted 4. Sony’s VSS algorithm works for any game played on PS4. It is the 3D, object based audio with height effects that is confined to certain big Sony exclusives and for those the Platinum headset is the only way to get 3D audio fullstop.
> 
> Moreover, as for “sounding like crap”, while I would always recommend a good pair of open-backed non-gaming headphones over a gaming headset in any general scenario, I don’t subscribe to the notion that gaming headset automatically = “crap sound”, not least because I’ve tried most of the options discussed (platinum, Astro, Arctis and Sennheiser RS195). For a first time buyer whose priorities are PS4 and wireless, the Platinum headset offers decent audio, is an all-in-one solution with respect to surround and mic and is relatively very cheap. While a G6 plus wireless Senns with optical in plus Modmic may offer better audio quality, I wouldn’t say they sound three times better or anywhere near that which is what the difference in cost would be.


Of course an all in one solution is more cost efficient and easier to deploy for first time buyers. It's just that simple solutions were never really a focus around here


----------



## royster

How are the software based VSS (Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphone X) compared to the hardware solutions nowadays? Is it better to get a headphone you like with a good soundstage and use that over something like the Creative SXFI? I currently use an hd 650.


----------



## illram

Yethal said:


> False. My Clears have a narrow soundstage and with SBX added it's still narrow. $120 PC37X outperforms them when it comes to positioning in virtual surround


Interesting. Are Clears known for great imaging? (Genuine question, never looked into Focals much.)


----------



## Yethal

illram said:


> Interesting. Are Clears known for great imaging? (Genuine question, never looked into Focals much.)


Splendid imaging, very narrow soundstage, just like Elear and Utopia.


----------



## illram (Oct 25, 2019)

royster said:


> How are the software based VSS (Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphone X) compared to the hardware solutions nowadays? Is it better to get a headphone you like with a good soundstage and use that over something like the Creative SXFI? I currently use an hd 650.


Depends on what games you play. Borderlands 3 with Atmos sounds incredible. When I played around briefly with Overwatch and Atmos it also sounded pretty good. I have not yet tried Dolby's 7.1 virtualization for games without spatial audio yet so I can't compare it to SXFI. With SXFI you know you are going to get a baseline of very very accurate 7.1 virtualization with anything that has surround audio, which is basically everything. But you miss vertical cues that you can get with a good Atmos feed and good cans.


----------



## Yedaself

SierraMadre said:


> Well, granted the Sony doesn’t offer surround outside of PlayStation 4 usage, but it can be used for non-surround purposes with devices other than PS and it is not the case that it only offers surround for games like Uncharted 4. Sony’s VSS algorithm works for any game played on PS4. It is the 3D, object based audio with height effects that is confined to certain big Sony exclusives and for those the Platinum headset is the only way to get 3D audio fullstop.
> 
> Moreover, as for “sounding like crap”, while I would always recommend a good pair of open-backed non-gaming headphones over a gaming headset in any general scenario, I don’t subscribe to the notion that gaming headset automatically = “crap sound”, not least because I’ve tried most of the options discussed (platinum, Astro, Arctis and Sennheiser RS195). For a first time buyer whose priorities are PS4 and wireless, the Platinum headset offers decent audio, is an all-in-one solution with respect to surround and mic and is relatively very cheap. While a G6 plus wireless Senns with optical in plus Modmic may offer better audio quality, I wouldn’t say they sound three times better or anywhere near that which is what the difference in cost would be.



Which open back wired headphone can you recommend for under $150 if I renounce from wireless? More I read wired headphones with dac seems more reasonable but just gonna go for headphones now then will go for a dac. Have to buy from international sellers and with taxes a $150 headphones can cost around $250 to me.


----------



## TeeReQs

Sennheiser PC37X would be a good choice at the price point.


----------



## royster

illram said:


> Depends on what games you play. Borderlands 3 with Atmos sounds incredible. When I played around briefly with Overwatch and Atmos it also sounded pretty good. I have not yet tried Dolby's 7.1 virtualization for games without spatial audio yet so I can't compare it to SXFI. With SXFI you know you are going to get a baseline of very very accurate 7.1 virtualization with anything that has surround audio, which is basically everything. But you miss vertical cues that you can get with a good Atmos feed and good cans.



Thanks. Does the game need to have atmos "implemented" for Dolby Atmos to work? Or does it just make any sound 5.1/7.1? And SXFI just makes everything surround? Ive heard that DTS needs to have it implemented as an option ingame for it to work. What are good hifi/audiophile cans with good soundstage nowadays? Seems most of the top performing audiophile cans (stuff like Focal/HD 650) have small soundstage.


----------



## Yedaself

TeeReQs said:


> Sennheiser PC37X would be a good choice at the price point.


Sadly, Drop doesn't ship to my country.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 25, 2019)

illram said:


> Here's a question I've been batting around in my head for a little bit: Assume a headphone has top-tier imaging and detail. For the purposes of virtual surround, with the right EQ, crossfade, etc., that headphone's particular soundstage qualities can be rendered meaningless. E.g. a headphone with a "narrow" stage when just run without any EQ or DSP can still fake a big stage, if you want, assuming its imaging is good enough and you run the appropriate DSP.
> 
> Is that true or false? I feel like this has been touched on before but I don't know if there's a definitive answer. I personally feel like this is true. E.g. the ESP950 sounds great with VSS but is not known for its soundstage really.


You raise an interesting question which I have thought about too but in my experience with the auto-EQ plugin for Hesuvi for various headphones along with different forms of VSS, my impression was that there would still be a difference.

Perhaps the closest I got to confirming this (albeit in a subjective and not very scientific manner) was via the SXFI amp. As you probably already know, it has headphone compensation profiles for SXFI mode. There are specific compensation profiles for a selection of popular headphones and for when your headphones are not “SXFI certified” there are generic over-ear, generic on-ear and generic IEM profiles (note I am not talking about the SXFI headmapping, rather the compensation profiles). The change in the sound can be very noticeable between profiles even within the same category (for example one over-ear vs another). While I didn’t do any measurements, one thing that seemed apparent was that there appeared to be no difference whatsoever between the default “generic over ear” profile and that of the specific profile for the ‘Aurvana Live! Special edition’ closed backs that came bundled with the SXFI AMP. In effect, changing the profile from generic over to Aurvana Live Special edition seemed to have no effect at all whether using the Aurvanas in question or whether I was comparing generic vs the Aurvana profile when using *other* headphones such as K7XX, Fildelio X2, HD800S etc. Meanwhile, changing profiles from generic to AKG K7XX, Fidelity’s X2, DT880 or HD800 all resulted in a significant and immediately noticeable difference.

So, assuming that generic and Aurvana Live special edition profiles are indeed the same or at least so very similar as to not be able tell the difference, then that means Creative was / is treating the Aurvana Live Special editions as “reference” or optimum for the purposes of SXFI VSS, I.e. as is, with no compensation necessary.
In any case, whether using the associated compensation profiles or not, in those headphones I tried, the size of soundstage hierarchy was as one would expect. The HD800S was top, followed by the K7XX, the Fidelio X2 not too far behind, and the Aurvana’s last by a considerable margin.


----------



## TeeReQs

Yedaself said:


> Sadly, Drop doesn't ship to my country.



You might be able to find a used pair through eBay, or on here where someone would be willing to ship to you. You could also go for a pair of HD598/599, and buy a detachable mic for them.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 28, 2019)

royster said:


> Thanks. Does the game need to have atmos "implemented" for Dolby Atmos to work? Or does it just make any sound 5.1/7.1? And SXFI just makes everything surround? Ive heard that DTS needs to have it implemented as an option ingame for it to work. What are good hifi/audiophile cans with good soundstage nowadays? Seems most of the top performing audiophile cans (stuff like Focal/HD 650) have small soundstage.


No. Dolby Atmos for headphone when fed vanilla Dolby content is effectively just Dolby’s successor to Dolby headphone and will still result in vanilla virtual 5.1 or 7.1. If and only if fed with Atmos content will the 3D object based processing kick in giving you height effects etc.
SXFI virtualises speakers as per the source content just like other forms of VSS only it uses ear and face mapping along with headphone compensation to optimise and personalize the effect for the user. If that content is plain two channel stereo then the effect will be akin to listening to stereo speakers set in front of you. If the content is already binaural then applying SXFI might result in a greater sense of “3D” audio but I haven’t tried it and it would mean double binauralisation (once during the recording/mixing stage and again when processed by SXFI) which isn’t ideal and is a topic of contention. For virtual 5.1/7.1, the SXFI needs to be fed multichannel PCM surround content via USB.
DTS headphone X does not require an in-game option for 5.1/7.1 virtual surround as, like most other forms of VSS, it is just a post processing algorithm applied to multichannel content. Most of the DAC/amps that feature it apply it to decoded Dolby digital 5.1.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 25, 2019)

Yedaself said:


> Which open back wired headphone can you recommend for under $150 if I renounce from wireless? More I read wired headphones with dac seems more reasonable but just gonna go for headphones now then will go for a dac. Have to buy from international sellers and with taxes a $150 headphones can cost around $250 to me.


The Fidelio X2s are a good choice and often see heavy discounts. Black Friday is approaching and also the release of the successor Fidelio X3s early next year so it should be quite easy to find the X2s within your price range if you can be patient and also diligent in searching for a good deal.

The Philips SHP9500 are also a good choice but you’ll give up some bass and a little bit of soundstage in exchange for them usually being much cheaper than the X2s. They are also about to be succeeded by the 9600model early next year so again, you might be able to find it even cheaper than usual as retailers look to shift inventory in anticipation of the new model.

AKG712 Pro are very good but can fluctuate wildly in pricing. They often see heavy discounts but if you can find one in your price range then they would be well worth it.

If the Sennheiser 37X is out because Drop doesn’t ship to your country then what about the mass retail versions? Sennheiser Game One, 373D etc.


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## Yedaself (Oct 25, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> The Fidelio X2s are a good choice and often see heavy discounts. Black Friday is approaching and also the release of the successor Fidelio X3s early next year so it should be quite easy to find the X2s within your price range if you can be patient and also diligent in searching for a good deal.
> 
> The Philips SHP9500 are also a good choice but you’ll give up some bass and a little bit of soundstage in exchange for them usually being much cheaper than the X2s. They are also about to be succeeded by the 9600model early next year so again, you might be able to find it even cheaper than usual as retailers look to shift inventory in anticipation of the new model.
> 
> ...


Whish I had bought Fidelio X2 when I had a chance, they were like $120 months ago in my country but now out of stock. SHP9500 is easier to find and quite cheap. I did a little price search and their cost to me for the headphones you mentioned. So I can buy SHP9500 for $122, Game One for $207, X2 for $212, PC373D for $214 and you didn't mention but HD599 for $208. They are quite close on pricing except SHP9500 but which one to buy.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yedaself said:


> Whish I had bought Fidelio X2 when I had a chance, they were like $120 months ago in my country but now out of stock. SHP9500 is easier to find and quite cheap. I did a little price search and their cost to me for the headphones you mentioned. So I can buy SHP9500 for $122, Game One for $207, X2 for $212, PC373D for $214 and you didn't mention but HD599 for $208. They are quite close on pricing except SHP9500 but which one to buy.


Out of those, I’d choose the Fidelio X2s.


----------



## SierraMadre

DEAL/ DISCOUNT PSA:

Hifiman HE-4XX are currently $130 down from $180.

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-hifiman-he4xx-planar-magnetic-headphones/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal said:


> False. My Clears have a narrow soundstage and with SBX added it's still narrow. $120 PC37X outperforms them when it comes to positioning in virtual surround
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting, from the initial pictures they seemed to be using the same basic frame as the mobius



I'll take pics tomorrow so you can spot the subtle changes. The headband is different, the padding section is longer and feels different, and the extension mechanism is placed higher up. They look similar at a glance, but really, it's two different headbands.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 26, 2019)

Yedaself said:


> Whish I had bought Fidelio X2 when I had a chance, they were like $120 months ago in my country but now out of stock. SHP9500 is easier to find and quite cheap. I did a little price search and their cost to me for the headphones you mentioned. So I can buy SHP9500 for $122, Game One for $207, X2 for $212, PC373D for $214 and you didn't mention but HD599 for $208. They are quite close on pricing except SHP9500 but which one to buy.


I dunno about your region but here in Europe, the GSP 500 headset which was released last year as a successor to the Game One is currently over 30% off.

Also, something else that has occurred to me is that there’s no point in you getting a 373D instead of a Senn Game One or GSP 500 unless you intend to use it for PC gaming as the increased cost of the 373D comes down to the Dolby headphone USB surround unit which will only get multichannel VSS from PC (as no existing console supports multichannel via USB). I suppose if it’s only $7 difference, it might be better to go for the 373D over the Game One for versatility but if the pricing changes and the difference becomes much more than that then the Game One or the aforementioned GSP 500 would be the better option.


----------



## Yedaself

SierraMadre said:


> I dunno about your region but here in Europe, the GSP 500 headset which was released last year as a successor to the Game One is currently over 30% off.
> 
> Also, something else that has occurred to me is that there’s no point in you getting a 373D instead of a Senn Game One or GSP 500 unless you intend to use it for PC gaming as the increased cost of the 373D comes down to the Dolby headphone USB surround unit which will only get multichannel VSS from PC (as no existing console supports multichannel via USB). I suppose if it’s only $7 difference, it might be better to go for the 373D over the Game One for versatility but if the pricing changes and the difference becomes much more than that then the Game One or the aforementioned GSP 500 would be the better option.


Actually, I am really tempted about X2HRs because looks like it fits to music genres which I like too but waiting for more discount. Cheapest X2HR that I found costs only for $135 on amazon but $91,57 for shipping+tax hits really hard.


----------



## tmaxx123

Does anyone have additional info about project auris? All I could find is that it will be a new “g” series external solution with better console compatibility and “ease of use”.

hopefully they aim high with this one, the x3 was a bit of a dud...


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## ZzBOG

I have Q701 for gaming powered by O2 amp with external surround from Creative Omni. It's good, but I would appreciate a bit more bass for the SFX without losing on the soundstage. Is there anything better than Q701 for FPS?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Not sure what you mean by "external surround sound from Creative Labs Omni" ?
Is the Omni connected to the O2.....using which jack(s) on the Omni?


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## SierraMadre

Yedaself said:


> Actually, I am really tempted about X2HRs because looks like it fits to music genres which I like too but waiting for more discount. Cheapest X2HR that I found costs only for $135 on amazon but $91,57 for shipping+tax hits really hard.


The X2s are a great choice.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 27, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> Not sure what you mean by "external surround sound from Creative Labs Omni" ?
> Is the Omni connected to the O2.....using which jack(s) on the Omni?


Seeing as the Omni has neither optical-in nor line-in, and the O2 has only L/R line-in for input, presumably:

PC > (USB) > OMNI > (L/R lineout) > O2 > Q701


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## SierraMadre (Oct 27, 2019)

ZzBOG said:


> I have Q701 for gaming powered by O2 amp with external surround from Creative Omni. It's good, but I would appreciate a bit more bass for the SFX without losing on the soundstage. Is there anything better than Q701 for FPS?


Have a look at the 612 Pro if you want to keep the price down, otherwise K7XX or K712 Pro is probably your best bet.

This is a really good comparison from headfi user Ryanr197. It doesn’t feature the 612 Pro (if you search this thread for 612, Mad Lust Envy gives good impressions of it) but it covers and compares all the other major SKUs in that segment of AKG’s headphone range:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/

*Cheaper Alternative solution - Change Pads*

If you go by the above comparison then adding the k712 pads to your Q701 should give you something very close to a K7XX.
 Massdrop do a Dekoni pad sale for AKG pads every few months or so. They just finished one now.

You could get the elite velour pads next time round which are closest to the stock pads that come with the K7XX and put them on your Q701 to turn it into something approaching a K7XX clone. Alternatively, if you want a bit more bass then you could go for the elite *hybrid* pads. Either way it would be cheaper and perhaps less hassle than buying a new headphone. (I don’t recommend buying official replacements from AKG or elsewhere due to the ridiculously high cost per pad.)

https://drop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-earpads-for-akg-k7xx

You can also get the same direct from Dekoni at any time but they charge more than when they sell through Massdrop.

https://dekoniaudio.com/filter/?product_cat=k7xx&product_cat=k7xx


I have the K7XX. I enjoy bass but am by no means a bass head or a volume junkie. If I want to focus on a bass immersive experience with no EQ tweaking then I use my Fidelio X2s. If I want more precise imaging, separation and airiness then I will use the K7XX.

For the K7XX with stock pads (which should be very close to your Q701 plus K712 pads / Dekoni elite velour pads), the K7XX bass experience is perfectly adequate, perhaps decent even, but just shy of truly pleasing for cinematic gaming and movie watching. If I put the Hybrid pads on the K7XX then the bass characteristics feel like an excellent compromise around halfway between the Fidelio X2 and the  K7XX w/stock pads.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 28, 2019)

@Fegefeuer

Hmm, LCD-1 soundstaging isn't really matched with virtual surround from the little I've played of Outer Worlds and Modern Warfare.

It's competent, but I don't feel a strong sense of rear depth. Based off virtual surround performance with both DH and SBX, the LCD-1 wouldn't be a top choice. I think it'd make a much better choice for gamers who play in stereo. Or aren't super critical in terms of soundstaging.

This may change as I test other stuff, but preliminary testing doesn't convince me.

It could also be the games themselves not having a good sense if rear depth. Which isn't impossible.

In any case, that may be the only shortcoming I have for these. The LCD-1 sounds so damn good. It's a shame I don't have any pads I can replace the stock ones with since they're on the smaller side. I want some fabric pads, asap.


----------



## ricardovix

Guys, I'm a owner of a Sennheiser HD 598 headphone and a Creative Sound Blaster Titanium X-FI HD soundcard and I'm looking for upgrade both (*for gaming*).

Which headphone do you suggest to upgrade from a HD 598? And soundcard? A Creative Sound Blaster AE-5 will be a good upgrade or doesn't worth it?

I'm looking for better soundstage to better hear the "footsteps" on FPS, but I don't want a poor sound for other gamings too.

Regards,

Ricardo


----------



## chestera

I keep seeing "dolby headphone" in here. is there a standalone device that I can buy, or is the author referring to the Dolby Access app for atmos?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 28, 2019)

chestera said:


> I keep seeing "dolby headphone" in here. is there a standalone device that I can buy, or is the author referring to the Dolby Access app for atmos?


Astro Mixamps, Asus Xonar U3, and various other, older gaming devices and external soundcards. Personally, I use the Asus Xonar U3 for PC. It's a small usb stick sized soundcard. I use it just to send out Dolby Headphone through it's optical out to my Modi 3's optical in.

It was like $40 when I bought it. Well worth it.


----------



## Snikibiki

I have DragonFly Black right now, so ill need something different to get full potential from k702 and ad700x?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That tiny little amp can't possibly do enough for the K702, which has been known for a very long time to scale with full sized desktop amps.


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 28, 2019)

chestera said:


> I keep seeing "dolby headphone" in here. is there a standalone device that I can buy, or is the author referring to the Dolby Access app for atmos?


Dolby Access will give you Dolby Atmos for headphone which is the successor to their ubiquitous Dolby headphone which was their most common / popular VSS solution that was integrated into various sound cards and gaming dac/amps. Both are post processing algorithms that render VSS.

 Atmos for headphone will behave more or less like regular DOlby headphone when it comes to normal 5.1 and 7.1 content but when fed with Atmos source content will render in “3D” (adding height effects). Sound quality was initially relatively poor (in comparison to Dolby headphone) when it first debuted but is much improved since then. Some may disagree but I think it is of comparable quality to Dolby headphone now and with the added bonus of being able to render height effects for Atmos source content, I personally see no reason to seek out Dolby headphone over Atmos for headphone unless of course you want it for a device that can’t take advantage of Atmos for headphone for technical reasons (PlayStation etc.).

If you are just using PC or Xbox then I’d recommend just getting the Dolby Access app (it’s one-off peanuts for a lifetime licence on up to 10 devices), engaging Atmos for headphones and then feeding it out via optical to a nice dac/amp.

If on the other hand, you want something for other devices then there’s plenty of Dolby headphone stuff to choose from, the cheapest being the Turtlebeach Earforce DSS which you could probably pick up for under 20 second hand. It’s not the most powerful device but it’s cheap enough to be worth it just to try and to act as a backup to more expensive equipment or as a travel companion that you don’t mind losing.  Alternatively you could just get something more expensive / powerful like the Astro Mixamp from Amazon and just return if you don’t like it


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I'm a owner of a Sennheiser HD 598 headphone and a Creative Sound Blaster Titanium X-FI HD sound card and I'm looking for upgrade both (*for gaming*).
> Which headphone do you suggest to upgrade from a HD 598? And soundcard? A Creative Sound Blaster AE-5 will be a good upgrade or doesn't worth it?
> I'm looking for better soundstage to better hear the "footsteps" on FPS, but I don't want a poor sound for other gamings too.
> Regards, Ricardo


Have you considered to keep using the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) sound card and just add an external headphone amplifier and connect the amp to the Ti-HD's line-output (RCA) jacks?
What is your budget for the audio upgrade?


----------



## Snikibiki (Oct 28, 2019)

1. If I want to increase volume of footsteps, and decrease volume of explosions, I have to buy dsp? BTW dsp is software or something in soundcard? 2. If I want to buy headphones for gaming and music, like k712 pro, if I decrease (only for gaming time) bass volume it can sound and overall perform almost like k702?


----------



## ricardovix (Oct 28, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> Have you considered to keep using the Creative Labs Sound Blaster Ti-HD (Titanium-HD) sound card and just add an external headphone amplifier and connect the amp to the Ti-HD's line-output (RCA) jacks?
> What is your budget for the audio upgrade?



Actually I didn't thought about add an external headphone amplifier, because I don't know how this can improve my gaming (especially multiplayer FPS).

My budget is more or less US$ 400,00 for a headphone and around US$ 150,00 for a sound card.

The Sound Blaster AE-5 is a considerable upgrade when compared to my Sound Blaster Titanium X-Fi HD or I'll barely notice an improvement?

Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> 1. If I want to increase volume of footsteps, and decrease volume of explosions, I have to buy dsp? BTW dsp is software or something in soundcard? 2. If I want to buy headphones for gaming and music, like k712 pro, if I decrease (only for gaming time) bass volume it can sound and overall perform almost like k702?


What exactly are you currently using for audio?


----------



## ricardovix

PurpleAngel said:


> What exactly are you currently using for audio?



Today I use an Sennheiser HD 598 connected to a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD. 

I use the headphones only for gaming (single player and multiplayer). I don't listen to music and movies/tv shows I watch on my Home Theater.


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Actually I didn't thought about add an external headphone amplifier, because I don't know how this can improve my gaming (especially multiplayer FPS). My budget is more or less US$ 400,00 for a headphone and around US$ 150,00 for a sound card.
> The Sound Blaster AE-5 is a considerable upgrade when compared to my Sound Blaster Titanium X-Fi HD or I'll barely notice an improvement? Thanks!


I'm assuming your looking to improve headphone FPS "surround sound" gaming, "soundstage" has more to do with music.
The Ti-HD with an external headphone amplifier, should easily match the AE-5, for sound quality.
The Ti-HD uses CMSS-3D for headphone surround sound, while the AE-5 uses the newer Soundcore3D audio processor, for SBX headphone surround sound.
I'm not into FPS gaming or Creative sound cards, so can't advice on which card will offer the best headphone surround sound, for whatever FPS you like playing.
Suggesting adding an external headphone amplifier, to the Ti-HD, is just an option I wanted to point out. not trying to talk you out of swapping the Ti-HD, for the AE-5.
Guess you could get the AE-5, see if it improves your gaming, if so, then sell off the Ti-HD.


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## Snikibiki (Oct 28, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> What exactly are you currently using for audio?



Middle class speakers.. But does it matter?


----------



## Yethal

Snikibiki said:


> I have DragonFly Black right now, so ill need something different to get full potential from k702 and ad700x?


An amp would be helpful.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> Middle class speakers.. But does it matter?


Just trying to get a full understanding of what you currently have 
I'm going to guess the K702 and K712 are going to be about equal for headphone surround sound function.
So using different volumes does not really make perform differently (better or worse) for FPS gaming, between the two headphones.
The K712 should offer at least a little more in sound quality. like for music.
Do you have a budget, for your audio upgrade?


----------



## Snikibiki (Oct 28, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> Just trying to get a full understanding of what you currently have
> I'm going to guess the K702 and K712 are going to be about equal for headphone surround sound function.
> So using different volumes does not really make perform differently (better or worse) for FPS gaming, between the two headphones.
> The K712 should offer at least a little more in sound quality. like for music.
> Do you have a budget, for your audio upgrade?


 Still same question.. if I want to increase volume of footsteps, and decrease volume of explosions/shots, I have to buy dsp or what? BTW dsp is software or something in soundcard? I have around 500$ for headphones+amp/dac. How much amp/dac will cost for k702 compared to k712 pro?


----------



## ZzBOG

SierraMadre said:


> For the K7XX with stock pads (which should be very close to your Q701 plus K712 pads / Dekoni elite velour pads), the K7XX bass experience is perfectly adequate, perhaps decent even, but just shy of truly pleasing for cinematic gaming and movie watching. If I put the Hybrid pads on the K7XX then the bass characteristics feel like an excellent compromise around halfway between the Fidelio X2 and the K7XX w/stock pads.



thanks a lot! Any idea how their perforated sheepskin pads sound like? I am not a fan of velour pads skin-contact-wise


----------



## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> Still same question.. if I want to increase volume of footsteps, and decrease volume of explosions/shots, I have to buy dsp or what? BTW dsp is software or something in soundcard? I have around 500$ for headphones+amp/dac. How much amp/dac will cost for k702 compared to k712 pro?


The more bass a headphone has, the louder the explosions will be.
Headphones like the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X have a very light bass.
I'm going to guess your currently plugging your speakers directly into your motherboard's onboard audio sound card.
I would say to get the Creative Labs AE-5 sound card, best chance of improving you ability of hearing footsteps (my best guess).


----------



## Snikibiki

PurpleAngel said:


> The more bass a headphone has, the louder the explosions will be.
> Headphones like the Audio Technica ATH-AD700X have a very light bass.
> I'm going to guess your currently plugging your speakers directly into your motherboard's onboard audio sound card.
> I would say to get the Creative Labs AE-5 sound card, best chance of improving you ability of hearing footsteps (my best guess).


I have DragonFly Black rn.. Soundcard software to change volume of different things is much superior to 3rd party software for same thing? Or it works completely different, is there any other way? BTW, if I would want music and gaming headphones decreasing a lot of bass in k712 for gaming time will give me almost same sound like k701/2?


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 28, 2019)

ZzBOG said:


> thanks a lot! Any idea how their perforated sheepskin pads sound like? I am not a fan of velour pads skin-contact-wise



I have no experience with the sheepskin but here is a summary of the differences between pads by a Dekoni rep (on Massdrop forum comments on Dekoni pads for AKG K series product page).

https://drop.com/buy/dekoni-premium-earpads-for-akg-k7xx/talk#discussions

_“DekoniAudio

“We designed these pads around the K701 (the “8 bumps” version), and one of our officemates uses the Fenestrated Sheepskin on his K612 Pro for gaming frequently. He’s kind of a nut though, he has 20 of his own headphones, and borrows our company headphones after we are done designing pads for them. He is typing to you now  Pad rolling makes a smaller difference on open headphones than closed back headphones, because there is no reverberations (aka “ringing”) from the back of the open earcup. The AKG K7XX is a semi-open Design, but it still is mostly open. If your current pads are a bit more “loved,” you will probably notice that the Dekoni give your ears more room (no more ears touching the driver cover!). This may slightly increase the soundstage, imaging might be slightly more diffuse (but I still have “audio radar” and wreck face when I’m playing Apex with surround processing, it’s not even fair!) 

The Elite Velour pads sound the most similar to stock, with the “tightest” sound, most absorption of mid and treble “reflections” for the best soundstage and detail, and a similar tonal balance. The Velour is a bit of a tighter weave, so this helps give a small amount of extra bass. 

*Elite Sheepskin* and Protein Leather are easiest to clean when going sweaty tryhard, and add a bit more impact, sharpness, and bass to the sound. Still great soundstage, but more intense. The Protein Leather is a bit lighter and holds a touch less heat (and less expensive), but heat isn’t much of an issue with the Sheepskin either and Sheepskin just has that premium feeling. I use Fenestrated Sheepskin or Hybrid Pads the most for gaming because they are the best of both worlds. The Fenestrations (holes) take a bit of the edge or glare off the treble, while you still get that modest boost in bass from the Sheepskin (and they wipe clean easily with an alcohol wipe). 

Since the K701 belong to the office, touching my/their hair oils and skin and stuff I just think it’s kind to keep them clean for sharing The K612 Pro are mine (I used to have a K712 = K7XX), so I like to use the Hybrids because I like the feel of velour against my skin, while still getting the Fenestrated Sheepskin sonic benefits.”_


----------



## Snikibiki

Which amp/dac would give me full potential of k702, and k712 mostly for gaming wise. I want to know how much more I have to spend on dac/amp if I would get k712 instead of k702? Currently have dragonfly black..


----------



## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> Which amp/dac would give me full potential of k702, and k712 mostly for gaming wise. I want to know how much more I have to spend on dac/amp if I would get k712 instead of k702? Currently have dragonfly black..


The K712 and K702 are both 62-Ohm, so both would use the same voltage, for a given amount of volume.


----------



## Snikibiki

PurpleAngel said:


> The K712 and K702 are both 62-Ohm, so both would use the same voltage, for a given amount of volume.


I overthink with these volume changing of footsteps etc. Dragonfly black isint enough probably.. What amp/dac will drive k712/702 to get full potential in gaming? Budget 150$


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Volume of footsteps has nothing to do with your amp/dac to begin with. Those sounds are part of the frequencies. So some footsteps may be heard at for example 1khz. So you would use an EQ program to emphasize 1khz. Yes, a headphone may pick up smaller details depenbding on headphone, but even a cheap gaming headphone can pick up things like footsteps if they're speciaslized in specific frequencies where the footsteps are heard. No amp/dac is going to improve this. AT least not on the level of an equalizer emphasizing footstep frequencies.

Just as bass lives between say 0-120hz or so, footsteps have frequencies themselves. Each game and even the same game may have footsteps being audible at different ranges. There is no simple solution here. It depends entirely on the game and whether the game's audio engine even has good footstep presentation to begin with.


----------



## Snikibiki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Volume of footsteps has nothing to do with your amp/dac to begin with. Those sounds are part of the frequencies. So some footsteps may be heard at for example 1khz. So you would use an EQ program to emphasize 1khz. Yes, a headphone may pick up smaller details depenbding on headphone, but even a cheap gaming headphone can pick up things like footsteps if they're speciaslized in specific frequencies where the footsteps are heard. No amp/dac is going to improve this. AT least not on the level of an equalizer emphasizing footstep frequencies.
> 
> Just as bass lives between say 0-120hz or so, footsteps have frequencies themselves. Each game and even the same game may have footsteps being audible at different ranges. There is no simple solution here. It depends entirely on the game and whether the game's audio engine even has good footstep presentation to begin with.


Thanks, so I'll use eq. Which amp/dac will be good for k702/712 to 150$? Magni 3, or something will be better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno, I don't have any amp/dac at that price range. The Magni 3 is an amp only. I assume you can just use your Dragonfly as a dac for the Magni 3, and that would work fine enough.


----------



## Snikibiki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno, I don't have any amp/dac at that price range. The Magni 3 is an amp only. I assume you can just use your Dragonfly as a dac for the Magni 3, and that would work fine enough.


Magni 3


Mad Lust Envy said:


> Volume of footsteps has nothing to do with your amp/dac to begin with. Those sounds are part of the frequencies. So some footsteps may be heard at for example 1khz. So you would use an EQ program to emphasize 1khz. Yes, a headphone may pick up smaller details depenbding on headphone, but even a cheap gaming headphone can pick up things like footsteps if they're speciaslized in specific frequencies where the footsteps are heard. No amp/dac is going to improve this. AT least not on the level of an equalizer emphasizing footstep frequencies.
> 
> Just as bass lives between say 0-120hz or so, footsteps have frequencies themselves. Each game and even the same game may have footsteps being audible at different ranges. There is no simple solution here. It depends entirely on the game and whether the game's audio engine even has good footstep presentation to begin with.


So what will give amp/dac for k702 and ad700x in terms of gaming? Im interested whats the pros and cons having paired these headphones with amp/dac


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## Mad Lust Envy

It's a simple Headphone amplifier. No gaming purposes. If you want something better suited for having look into the Creative G6, as it gas SBX virtual surround.

It also all depends on what you're playing on. Ps4, PC, Xbox, what? The K702 is still something that scales better with powerful amps, though if you just want high volume the G6 is high enough. Also the G6 kind of needs a pc to change some settings, so only go for that if you have a PC.

No more above i can give you at that price range. Any everything I could recommend is on the first page.


----------



## Snikibiki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's a simple Headphone amplifier. No gaming purposes. If you want something better suited for having look into the Creative G6, as it gas SBX virtual surround.
> 
> It also all depends on what you're playing on. Ps4, PC, Xbox, what? The K702 is still something that scales better with powerful amps, though if you just want high volume the G6 is high enough. Also the G6 kind of needs a pc to change some settings, so only go for that if you have a PC.
> 
> No more above i can give you at that price range. Any everything I could recommend is on the first page.


Im playing on PC, but I mean what will give to these headphones if we dont plug them to amp/dac in terms of gaming


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## SierraMadre (Oct 29, 2019)

Snikibiki said:


> Im playing on PC, but I mean what will give to these headphones if we dont plug them to amp/dac in terms of gaming


Just get the Creative Soundblaster G6. It’s the best gaming dac/amp within your price range.

Alternatively, you could go for the Soundblaster X3. It’s not quite as good as the G6 in dac/amp terms but it does offer both Super X-Fi virtual surround and SBX virtual surround (whereas the G6 offers only SBX). The X3 also offers 7.1 analogue outs to connect desktop surround speakers if you wish. Google Super X-Fi if you are unfamiliar with it.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 29, 2019)

So Schiit is sending me the new Fulla 3 as well as the HEL. These may be more ideal for gamers that don't plan on playing with virtual surround. I'll give them a go and let you guys know what I think. They at the very least have analog inputs, so if you have a virtual surround device, you can still use the Fulla 3 or HEL as amp only devices. Or if it were my main setup, I'd switch between the analog in for the virtual surround from something like a Creative G6, and switch to the Schiit Fulla/HEL's internal usb dac when listening to music/other stereo only needs.

Shame there's no optical input, which would make the HEL a lot more compelling, but Jason at Schiit told me it'd have to use a whole other chipset and mess up the design. Fair enough.

The HEL definitely has enough juice for most headphones though, so it could make for a compelling device for those who need more power, as well as mic input. The only other device I casn think of with this much power would be the X7, and that's quite a bit more expensive.


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## ricardovix (Oct 29, 2019)

Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 and willing to upgrade to a Sennheiser HD 58x or AKG K7XX. Are those two options considerable better than the HD 598, *exclusively for gaming*?

And will a Sennheiser GSX 1000 be a massive upgrade when compared to my Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD?

Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 and willing to upgrade to a Sennheiser HD 58x or AKG K7XX. Are those two options considerable better than the HD 598, exclusively for gaming?
> And will a Sennheiser GSX 1000 be a massive upgrade when compared to my Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD? Thanks!


I doubt the HD58X will offer any benefit for gaming, over the HD598.
But the HD58X should make music more lively, over the HD598.


----------



## TeeReQs

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So Schiit is sending me the new Fulla 3 as well as the HEL. These may be more ideal for gamers that don't plan on playing with virtual surround. I'll give them a go and let you guys know what I think. They at the very least have analog inputs, so if you have a virtual surround device, you can still use the Fulla 3 or HEL as amp only devices. Or if it were my main setup, I'd switch between the analog in for the virtual surround from something like a Creative G6, and switch to the Schiit Fulla/HEL's internal usb dac when listening to music/other stereo only needs.
> 
> Shame there's no optical input, which would make the HEL a lot more compelling, but Jason at Schiit told me it'd have to use a whole other chipset and mess up the design. Fair enough.
> 
> The HEL definitely has enough juice for most headphones though, so it could make for a compelling device for those who need more power, as well as mic input. The only other device I casn think of with this much power would be the X7, and that's quite a bit more expensive.



Curious on how you like them. So, no Asgard 3 with optical then?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno about the Titanium HD, but the GSX1000 doesn't have a very powerful amp. However, it does have an awesome virtual surround in GSX. As far as your headphones, considerable upgrade from two excellent headphones for gaming purposes? Not particularly. If you want improvements on technicalities, sure, but if the main goal is gaming and detail retrieval, there's no real point spending so much just for that purpose. I'd make an assumption in that maybe something like the HD800 would be a meaningful upgrade, and you ain't gonna be driving that with a GSX1000, lol.

The goal in upgrading from something like the 598 would be for more musicality and enjoyment, and less for brute forcing clarity for gaming.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 29, 2019)

TeeReQs said:


> Curious on how you like them. So, no Asgard 3 with optical then?



I think he pretty much approached me with these two because they were upcoming products. The Asgard with optical will likely take some more cajoling from people, lol.

Hell, if he's gonna stretch out further from this, I'd ask him to make something like the HEL but with a Modi level dac, and asgard amp (with asgare sized chassis) with mic input, as well as a slew of inputs in the back (optical included). A man can dream.


----------



## ricardovix

PurpleAngel said:


> I doubt the HD58X will offer any benefit for gaming, over the HD598.
> But the HD58X should make music more lively, over the HD598.



Thanks for your answer! I never listen to music or watch anything on my headphones, they're used only for PC Gaming.

I already have an HD 598 but I'm in with an offer to buy the 58X or the K7XX for almost the same price, so that's why I'm thinking about upgrading my HD 598, but only if they're better... If the difference in gaming is almost inexistent, I won't change.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno about the Titanium HD, but the GSX1000 doesn't have a very powerful amp. However, it does have an awesome virtual surround in GSX. As far as your headphones, considerable upgrade from two excellent headphones for gaming purposes? Not particularly. If you want improvements on technicalities, sure, but if the main goal is gaming and detail retrieval, there's no real point spending so much just for that purpose. I'd make an assumption in that maybe something like the HD800 would be a meaningful upgrade, and you ain't gonna be driving that with a GSX1000, lol.
> 
> The goal in upgrading from something like the 598 would be for more musicality and enjoyment, and less for brute forcing clarity for gaming.



So there's no headphone (US$ 150,00~250,00) that worth the upgrade ($$$) from the HD 598, exclusively for gaming?

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ricardovix said:


> Thanks for your answer! I never listen to music or watch anything on my headphones, they're used only for PC Gaming.
> 
> I already have an HD 598 but I'm in with an offer to buy the 58X or the K7XX for almost the same price, so that's why I'm thinking about upgrading my HD 598, but only if they're better... If the difference in gaming is almost inexistent, I won't change.
> 
> ...


TBH, no. No for competitive at least. I mean if you want a nice upgrade, but not expecting OMG huuuuuge increase, a K702 would fit the bill, but that needs more than some meager amp like the GSX1000.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Of course it could be anything, as in no X7 successor, but we will see. Also: Hey WhitehartMart!


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## TeeReQs (Oct 30, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think he pretty much approached me with these two because they were upcoming products. The Asgard with optical will likely take some more cajoling from people, lol.
> 
> Hell, if he's gonna stretch out further from this, I'd ask him to make something like the HEL but with a Modi level dac, and asgard amp (with asgare sized chassis) with mic input, as well as a slew of inputs in the back (optical included). A man can dream.



I put my two cents in over there for an optical input, so hopefully if they see it as something people want they will make it. It wasn't even on my radar until you mentioned it over on this thread. I just got some Sparkos for my X7 in the mail today. Very excited to try them out tonight.


----------



## ricardovix

Mad Lust Envy said:


> TBH, no. No for competitive at least. I mean if you want a nice upgrade, but not expecting OMG huuuuuge increase, a K702 would fit the bill, but that needs more than some meager amp like the GSX1000.



The K702 is better than que K7XX?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No. They're similar, with the pad density mainly being the biggest change. The K7XX sounds less detailed but fuller, more musical. The K702 sounds clearer, but not as rich. I'm sure there's other differences, but don't expect much aside from the pads.


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## SIX BERA (Oct 30, 2019)

Hi all. I’d like to share my audio setup for gaming. I play only on Xbox One X.
I don’t know if the picture above will load corretly, but it consists in: Senn HD800 with modmic 5 (alternating with Mr Speakers Ether C), Mixamp pro tr to Cavalli Liquid Carbon (or Questyle cma400i). All Phones cables are balanceds.


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## SierraMadre

Fegefeuer said:


> Of course it could be anything, as in no X7 successor, but we will see. Also: Hey WhitehartMart!


For the foreseeable future, it’s Project Aris, I think.
This is their promo blurb:

“Our very first direct, plug-and-play USB DAC and Amp designed with gaming consoles in mind, Project Auris is a must-have in your quest to up your console gaming experience!“

https://uk.creative.com/upgrade/

- Don’t see how it could be the “must-have” they are making it out to be without optical-in or HDMI though. 


I think their HDMI-based device probably won’t hit the market until Q2 at the earliest.


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## AIucardd (Oct 31, 2019)

Ok, it's a bit late for me, but I have to ask.
I have GSX1000 with 363d sennheiser headphones.
I ordered AKG k702 for competitive gaming (I'm playing FPS mostly, so I don't think I need 712pro for better overall experience. Just gaming. And I found it a lot cheaper in my country)

Now I'm browsing some sites and finding out, that everyone just love SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless. I'm don't really care about wireless part, but all reviewers prasing it's imaging and sondstage. 
The question is, I guess, will 702 be better for soundwhoring than SteelSeries Arctis Pro?


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## SierraMadre (Oct 31, 2019)

AIucardd said:


> Ok, it's a bit late for me, but I have to ask.
> I have GSX1000 with 363d sennheiser headphones.
> I ordered AKG k702 for competitive gaming (I'm playing FPS mostly, so I don't think I need 712pro for better overall experience. Just gaming. And I found it a lot cheaper in my country)
> 
> ...


Unless you’re gaming in a noisier environment with lots of ambient sounds to distract (in which case the greater isolation of closed backs would be better) then no, the Arctis Pro will not be better for soundwhoring than the AKG702.


----------



## Nemmera

SierraMadre said:


> Unless you’re gaming in a noisier environment with lots of ambient sounds to distract (in which case the greater isolation of closed backs would be better) then no.



Agreed. Having my wife sit at the computer next to me with her damned Cherry MX Blues... Closed is where it's at!


----------



## SierraMadre

Nemmera said:


> Agreed. Having my wife sit at the computer next to me with her damned Cherry MX Blues... Closed is where it's at!


If you like closed backs and wireless PC gaming, these just released. They have specs one would normally associate with non-gaming audiophile cans and have been getting rave reviews:

https://eu.audio-technica.com/ATH-G1WL


----------



## ZzBOG

SierraMadre said:


> Just get the Creative Soundblaster G6. It’s the best gaming dac/amp within your price range.
> 
> Alternatively, you could go for the Soundblaster X3. It’s not quite as good as the G6 in dac/amp terms but it does offer both Super X-Fi virtual surround and SBX virtual surround (whereas the G6 offers only SBX). The X3 also offers 7.1 analogue outs to connect desktop surround speakers if you wish. Google Super X-Fi if you are unfamiliar with it.



Do you think X3 would be a noticeable upgrade over Omni? Also I don't see SBX mentioned on X3 page - or is it just be default there?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ZzBOG said:


> Do you think X3 would be a noticeable upgrade over Omni? Also I don't see SBX mentioned on X3 page - or is it just be default there?


One can assume Creative's Super X-Fi is a version of SBX, designed to run off a motherboard's CPU and built in sound card.


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## SierraMadre (Feb 4, 2020)

ZzBOG said:


> Do you think X3 would be a noticeable upgrade over Omni? Also I don't see SBX mentioned on X3 page - or is it just be default there?


EDIT: Ignore the X3 recommendation for SXFI. At the time I originally wrote this, I had only tested SXFI on the X3 briefly and assumed it would generally be as good as SXFI from the SXFI AMP. Having since tested it more, the X3 has problems with SXFI as of 05.2.2020 imo which corresponds with that of  number of complaints from other users on reddit and the net. If you want a SXFI dac/amp, stick with the SXFI Amp for now. 

It does offer SBX. I have it.

As for an upgrade, yes. SXFI is a big improvement in VSS holography for some at least. Also, automatic headphone-specific compensation (of a selection of models) is only available in SXFI mode.  IMO SXFI definitely does depth and centre channel better than SBX although there is a significantly more of an artificial timbre in comparison. Voices, water/rain effects can sound a bit metallic. Generally though, overall audio quality is excellent for a processed VSS solution, if not quite upto the standards of SBX.

The X3 is also much more versatile in feature set and tweak-ability over the Omni.
Basically, if you want SXFI in addition to SBX, get the X3. If you just wasn't better audio quality and are happy with SBX as your go to VSS, then get the G6.


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## SierraMadre (Oct 31, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> One can assume Creative's Super X-Fi is a version of SBX, designed to run off a motherboard's CPU and built in sound card.


SXFI and SBX are distinct VSS solutions (although SXFI is more than likely built upon SBX's foundations). They are both offered *separately* by the X3. You can choose to apply SBX or SXFI, and both have their own separate tabs and features in the SoundBlaster Command control panel.

(In fact, VSS on/off aside, I think that you may not even be able to have *any* SBX features turned on while you are using SXFI, e.g. it may not be possible to use SXFI for VSS while using the SBX suite's bass boost or Crystaliser features, it may be a case of a choice between using one mode/feature set or the other, although I could be wrong about this. - I only tested briefly on receipt and currently don't have it on hand to check as I lent it to a friend who currently has more time to game and watch movies than I do.)

Creative are claiming (at least) that SXFI is dependent on a particular processing chip they have put inside the SXFI line, hence why they supposedly cannot bring SXFI to the G6 or X7 via firmware updates.


----------



## Xspearo

Does anyone have any input on this? "Schiit Audio Hel" for gaming on pc vs others? looking for the best sound-whoring competitive audio setup. Also does anyone have or know where to get a good EQ settings for footsteps?


https://www.schiit.com/products/hel


----------



## SierraMadre (Oct 31, 2019)

Xspearo said:


> Does anyone have any input on this? "Schiit Audio Hel" for gaming on pc vs others? looking for the best sound-whoring competitive audio setup. Also does anyone have or know where to get a good EQ settings for footsteps?
> 
> 
> https://www.schiit.com/products/hel


Creative's SBX products have a "scout mode" toggle button that tries to do that. Haven't tested that feature much though so can't say beyond that.

No experience with the Hel but I think MLE mentioned a review incoming for that. What I will say about how it looks on paper is that while I'm sure it sounds great and can drive anything, as something that's marketed primarily as a gaming dac/amp, it lacks almost every feature one would normally associate with that kind of device. No optical input for dolby digital 5.1 decoding, no multichannel PCM support for PC,  no control panel software etc.
 It will likely sound fine, great even, if you are just happy pumping vanilla stereo or pre-binauralised surround content into it. But if you are interested in VSS (and assuming you don't intend on feeding the Hel pre-rendered VSS from a dedicated device using the line-in), you would be limited to using a game's inbuilt headphone virtual surround mix if it has one (some do, some don't), using the DTS headphone X or Dolby Atmos Headphone apps for windows or else something like Hesuvi because by itself the Hel appears to lack the capacity to process and interpret a discrete multichannel source feed.


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## Snikibiki (Oct 31, 2019)

Is it work in way that if I cut bass in EQ k712 can be same or better than k702 for comp gaming?


----------



## Xspearo

SierraMadre said:


> Creative's SBX products have a "scout mode" toggle button that tries to do that. Haven't tested that feature much though so can't say beyond that.
> 
> No experience with the Hel but I think MLE mentioned a review incoming for that. What I will say about how it looks on paper is that while I'm sure it sounds great and can drive anything, as something that's marketed primarily as a gaming dac/amp, it lacks almost every feature one would normally associate with that kind of device. No optical input for dolby digital 5.1 decoding, no multichannel PCM support for PC,  no control panel software etc.
> It will likely sound fine, great even, if you are just happy pumping vanilla stereo or pre-binauralised surround content into it. But if you are interested in VSS (and assuming you don't intend on feeding the Hel pre-rendered VSS from a dedicated device using the line-in), you would be limited to using a game's inbuilt headphone virtual surround mix if it has one (some do, some don't), using the DTS headphone X or Dolby Atmos Headphone apps for windows or else something like Hesuvi because by itself the Hel appears to lack the capacity to process and interpret a discrete multichannel source feed.



Thank you for your input. I guess ill hold off on the Schiit Audio Hel and stick with the Sound Blaster G5.


----------



## SierraMadre

Xspearo said:


> Thank you for your input. I guess ill hold off on the Schiit Audio Hel and stick with the Sound Blaster G5.


You already have a G5 or you are thinking of getting one? If it's the latter case then it's the G6 you want, not the G5.


----------



## Xspearo (Nov 1, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> You already have a G5 or you are thinking of getting one? If it's the latter case then it's the G6 you want, not the G5.



I currently have the G5 but I was looking to upgrade. Is the G6 worth getting if I have G5 already? Or mayb another recommendation for upgrade? I only will use it for competitive fps gaming. I have a pair of akg k7xx.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Xspearo said:


> I currently have the G5 but I was looking to upgrade. Is the G6 worth getting if I have G5 already? Or maybe another recommendation for upgrade? I only will use it for competitive fps gaming. I have a pair of akg k7xx.


What headphones do you currently use or planning on getting in the near future?
I'm guessing for now, you really do not have a good enough reason for replacing the G5, with the G6.
The G6 does have a better DAC chip and i'm assuming a better headphone amplifier, but it might not make any real difference for FPS gaming.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Creative's SBX products have a "scout mode" toggle button that tries to do that. Haven't tested that feature much though so can't say beyond that.
> 
> No experience with the Hel but I think MLE mentioned a review incoming for that. What I will say about how it looks on paper is that while I'm sure it sounds great and can drive anything, as something that's marketed primarily as a gaming dac/amp, it lacks almost every feature one would normally associate with that kind of device. No optical input for dolby digital 5.1 decoding, no multichannel PCM support for PC,  no control panel software etc.
> It will likely sound fine, great even, if you are just happy pumping vanilla stereo or pre-binauralised surround content into it. But if you are interested in VSS (and assuming you don't intend on feeding the Hel pre-rendered VSS from a dedicated device using the line-in), you would be limited to using a game's inbuilt headphone virtual surround mix if it has one (some do, some don't), using the DTS headphone X or Dolby Atmos Headphone apps for windows or else something like Hesuvi because by itself the Hel appears to lack the capacity to process and interpret a discrete multichannel source feed.



Scout Mode cannot be enabled together with SBX (at least on X7) so it's rather useless.

As for Hel, sadly it's going to require VSS to be premixed in software so it's useless for console gamers. Will be a hit with office workers who don't want to switch between headphones for Skype calls.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> Scout Mode cannot be enabled together with SBX (at least on X7) so it's rather useless.
> 
> As for Hel, sadly it's going to require VSS to be premixed in software so it's useless for console gamers. Will be a hit with office workers who don't want to switch between headphones for Skype calls.


I could have sworn it worked with SBX but no, you're right, I just tried it.
I suppose you could still apply it to pre-mixed VSS (DTS Headphone X, Dolby Atmos 4 Headphone etc.) fed to the G6 / X7 etc.

I have a distinct memory of encountering an EQ profile on one of my gaming dac/amps or software based VSS solutions recently called  "footsteps" but I didn't try it or pay any attention to it because I never bother with features that so distort the EQ to that extent.


----------



## stavros.m

Has anyone tried Dolby Atmos for Headphones and DTS Sound Unbound. What do you prefer 

thanks


----------



## Zachik

Can anyone share impressions of the G6 used specifically for watching movies on a PC?  Streaming from Netflix, Hulu and/or Amazon Prime.
Obviously, I am interest in the 5.1 or 7.1 virtual surround...

Thanks!


----------



## SierraMadre

Zachik said:


> Can anyone share impressions of the G6 used specifically for watching movies on a PC?  Streaming from Netflix, Hulu and/or Amazon Prime.
> Obviously, I am interest in the 5.1 or 7.1 virtual surround...
> 
> Thanks!


Works well. I prefer to use Dolby Atmos for headphone over SBX though so I just set the G6 as my default audio device in the Windows audio manager (and activate the Dolby Atmos for headphone processing) and keep the virtual surround portion of SBX turned off. It’s a one off payment for a supposedly lifetime licence that is good for 10 windows devices.
 If you have a Netflix 4k subscription and have bought the Atmos for headphone licence from the Dolby access app then any title with an Atmos soundtrack will give you height effects and a greater sense of “3D” depth. Non-Atmos surround content will just be Dolby Digital plus 5.1 so in that instance, Dolby Atmos for headphone will just act in a similar fashion to Dolby headphone virtual surround, I.e. surround but mainly confined to a flat plane (it’s supposed to upmixing to add height and depth but the effect is limited) and without out as much much depth to the center channel (and to a lesser extent the rears). There are also a few titles on Netflix that are Dolby digital 2.0 stereo only so in that instance the Atmos for headphone effect would more resemble stereo speakers in front of you.
If you don’t have a 4k Netflix subscription then 5.1 is the max available in terms of surround and the title page in the app won’t even list Atmos. It also won’t list Atmos unless you have a Dolby Atmos for headphone licence or alternatively, a true Atmos surround AV receiver set as your audio device.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 2, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone tried Dolby Atmos for Headphones and DTS Sound Unbound. What do you prefer
> 
> thanks


For application to vanilla 5.1 Dolby Digital, I initially  preferred DTS X for greater “out of your head” sense of depth. However the audio fidelity / quality is not as good as Atmos for headphone IMO, sounds a tad muffled in comparison. At first, I thought it was an acceptable trade-off as I had excellent experiences with DTS headphone X V2 on the Steelseries Gamedac with the PS4. However when I used it on Xbox with Witcher 3, the swirling wind and rustling foliage sound effects sounded pretty bad so I guess quality/fidelity is content dependent. So, these days I tend to try first with DTS headphone X and if it sucks then I move to Atmos, which I know will be decent if not quite as deep. The exception to this rule is if I know the game or film in question has a native Atmos soundtrack. In that instance, I will always use Atmos for headphone. The same would hold in reverse if the content featured a native DTS X soundtrack but I have never come across any such content. It’s much rarer than Atmos, particularly for gaming.


----------



## Snikibiki

Is it work in way that if I cut bass in EQ k712 can performance same as k702 for gaming?


----------



## Zachik

SierraMadre said:


> Works well. I prefer to use Dolby Atmos for headphone over SBX though so I just set the G6 as my default audio device in the Windows audio manager (and activate the Dolby Atmos for headphone processing) and keep the virtual surround portion of SBX turned off. It’s a one off payment for a supposedly lifetime licence that is good for 10 windows devices.
> If you have a Netflix 4k subscription and have bought the Atmos for headphone licence from the Dolby access app then any title with an Atmos soundtrack will give you height effects and a greater sense of “3D” depth. Non-Atmos surround content will just be Dolby Digital plus 5.1 so in that instance, Dolby Atmos for headphone will just act in a similar fashion to Dolby headphone virtual surround, I.e. surround but mainly confined to a flat plane (it’s supposed to upmixing to add height and depth but the effect is limited) and without out as much much depth to the center channel (and to a lesser extent the rears). There are also a few titles on Netflix that are Dolby digital 2.0 stereo only so in that instance the Atmos for headphone effect would more resemble stereo speakers in front of you.
> If you don’t have a 4k Netflix subscription then 5.1 is the max available in terms of surround and the title page in the app won’t even list Atmos. It also won’t list Atmos unless you have a Dolby Atmos for headphone licence or alternatively, a true Atmos surround AV receiver set as your audio device.


Interesting..... so, you're saying the software solution (Atmos for headphone) works better than the HW solution (Creative G6)?
If that is the case - maybe I should just use Atmos for headphone license combined with a DAC/Amp like the new iFi Zen...
Again, my use case is for movies only. Not for gaming.
BTW, have you tried Darin Fong's "Out of your head" software?  How does it compare to the Atmos for headphone license from the Dolby??


----------



## Nemmera

Snikibiki said:


> Is it work in way that if I cut bass in EQ k712 can performance same as k702 for gaming?



Someone will disagree with me I’m sure, but my take on the K712 for gaming is: It’s great for CASUAL gaming, movies and music. They are great sounding cans and the soundstage is huge, but I found that - at least with my setup - the imaging isn’t very good. They are very left/right in their sound portrayal, maybe due to the soundstage.... No sure. Anyways, I found that I couldn’t really use them for PUBG (my main game atm). I was A/B testing them back and forth with my HD650s during a game, and while the soundstage took a massive hit the ability to hear directions was way better on the Sennheisers. Maybe some virtual surround mix could lessen the effects, I play in stereo.

I haven’t heard the K702s though, so can’t really answer your question.

Still - what do you mean by ”gaming”? Because if you play anything other than a competetive FPS I think you’ll love them!


----------



## Nemmera

Zachik said:


> Interesting..... so, you're saying the software solution (Atmos for headphone) works better than the HW solution (Creative G6)?
> If that is the case - maybe I should just use Atmos for headphone license combined with a DAC/Amp like the new iFi Zen...
> Again, my use case is for movies only. Not for gaming.
> BTW, have you tried Darin Fong's "Out of your head" software?  How does it compare to the Atmos for headphone license from the Dolby??



Correct me if you will, but isn’t the Creative G6’s virtual surround also a ”software solution”? I thought the last hardware-based framework for virtual surround died out with EAX.


----------



## mindbomb

Nemmera said:


> Maybe some virtual surround mix could lessen the effects, I play in stereo.


The hrtf setting in pubg is a virtual surround mix, so if you are using that, you aren't playing in traditional stereo.



Nemmera said:


> Correct me if you will, but isn’t the Creative G6’s virtual surround also a ”software solution”? I thought the last hardware-based framework for virtual surround died out with EAX.


eax is hardware environmental effects, which required all the audio to be hardware accelerated. When people use like a g6 or a gsx 1000, they are doing just the surround sound > binaural conversion in hardware.


----------



## Nemmera

mindbomb said:


> The hrtf setting in pubg is a virtual surround mix, so if you are using that, you aren't playing in traditional stereo.



Yeah, I have it turned off - thus my stereo statement.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 3, 2019)

Zachik said:


> Interesting..... so, you're saying the software solution (Atmos for headphone) works better than the HW solution (Creative G6)?
> If that is the case - maybe I should just use Atmos for headphone license combined with a DAC/Amp like the new iFi Zen...
> Again, my use case is for movies only. Not for gaming.
> BTW, have you tried Darin Fong's "Out of your head" software?  How does it compare to the Atmos for headphone license from the Dolby??


OOYH can be quite good. It really depends on the virtual room chosen and how closely your HRTF matches Darrin Fong's or whoever else's HRTF when the PRIR for the virtual room in question was measured. The room profiles are sold individually​ unless there’s a bundle or sales promotion. I wasn’t particularly impressed with the vanilla gaming package though.
Fong's OOYH also will not, AFAIK, give you anything more than 7.1. If you want to enjoy Atmos for content that supports it, you need Atmos for headphone.


----------



## Playstation

Curious about the "CAL" vs Astros pad depth and comfort. 

I own a pair of the Astro A10's which are similar to the other Astro lineup as far as fit, if I am not mistaken. The A10's pads are actually flat at the bottom. The synthetic fiber pads are fairly thick. 

I see where the OP noted the shallow cups on the CAL's. Also they have what appears to be a less thick, pleatherette. 

So, as far as comfort. I am wondering, because of my head size, if I would find the CALS comfortable compared to my comfort level with the A10's. Also, the skin on my ears is fairly sensitive. So if the CAL's fit is similar to on ear headphones, I am not sure how that would feel. 

I will probably just get the CAL's and try them for myself.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey Everyone anyone play PS4, I am just curious what headphones do you use for console? Are they the same you use for PC? Do you use an amp\dac for both systems example g6 or x3?
Also anyone try the X3 on PS4 i see on the website its checked for sxfi but didn't think that was possible

thanks


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 4, 2019)

stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone anyone play PS4, I am just curious what headphones do you use for console? Are they the same you use for PC? Do you use an amp\dac for both systems example g6 or x3?
> Also anyone try the X3 on PS4 i see on the website its checked for sxfi but didn't think that was possible
> 
> thanks


G6, Steelseries Gamedac, Loxjie P20

Fidelio X2, Massdrop AKG K7XX, Sennheiser HD800S.

The X3 is somewhat pointless for the PS4 in comparison to the above devices which support Dolby digital 5.1 decoding via optical which is then processed into SBX virtual surround by the G6 or DTS headphone X v2 by the Gamedac.
The X3 needs a multichannel PCM feed to process into proper virtual surround but the PS4 needs optical (or HDMI) to send multichannel audio. The PS4 is limited to stereo over USB. So X3 + PS4 would just replicate stereo speakers in front of you rather than multichannel surround speakers.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> G6, Steelseries Gamedac, Loxjie P20
> 
> Fidelio X2, Massdrop AKG K7XX, Sennheiser HD800S.
> 
> ...




thank you for the comment. I will look at the G6


----------



## headphonesonly

stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone anyone play PS4, I am just curious what headphones do you use for console? Are they the same you use for PC? Do you use an amp\dac for both systems example g6 or x3?
> Also anyone try the X3 on PS4 i see on the website its checked for sxfi but didn't think that was possible
> 
> thanks


G6 => Schiit modi 3/Jds Atom

Audeze lcd1, Philips SHP9500

I play on ps4 btw


----------



## stavros.m

headphonesonly said:


> G6 => Schiit modi 3/Jds Atom
> 
> Audeze lcd1, Philips SHP9500
> 
> I play on ps4 btw



Hey thanks I was looking at the shp9500 how are they for RPGs or are they mostly for fps 

Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks I was looking at the shp9500 how are they for RPGs or are they mostly for fps
> Thanks


The SHP9500 can be used for FPS gaming or RPG gaming or music or movies or other.


----------



## headphonesonly

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks I was looking at the shp9500 how are they for RPGs or are they mostly for fps
> 
> Thanks


shps are pretty good with everything except with action movies. I find them a bit boring especially with the stock pads. I swapped on ZMF micro suede pads on these and now they have a fun v shaped sound signature with a wider sound stage.


----------



## Snikibiki

if I would cut a lot of bass in EQ k712 PRO can performance same/similiar as k702 for gaming?


----------



## AveAlpha (Nov 4, 2019)

Hi all, I'm a new member on this forum, not really an audiophile but I'm sick of gaming advertised headsets and I decided to get myself a boom mic and ditch a "gaming" headset for some good open-back headphones. I went through the headphones on the first page kindly rated and reviewed by Mad Lust Envy but you see I'm and indecisive person and can't seem to choose one of them. Could any kind soul point me in the right direction for all round headphones for gaming, with slightly more to offer in the single player experience and a good base, I do play competitively in Apex, CS:GO etc but the single player experience is more important to me. My price range would have to be something around €100-150 more or less for the headphones and I don't mind spending a bit extra on an amp if the headphones would last me a good while.

So far my list to choose from contains these headphones :

- AKG K-702
- beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro
- Audio-Technica ATH-AD900x or Audio-Technica ATH-AD700x
- Sennheiser hd 598
- Philips Fidelio X2 (tad bit on the expensive side)
- Seen some people advising one of the HD6XX/650/600/580

I can imagine that some of you are probably tired of people like me but I genuinely never had a proper pair of headphones and I just dont want to make a mistake, so any reply at all with advise from anyone will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Edit: I should probably add that I don't really listen to music outside of a car environment and movies are not as high of a priority as games but it would be a nice addition to the headphones if they played them nicely. Also I game mainly on PC


----------



## HairyHook

AveAlpha said:


> Hi all, I'm a new member on this forum, not really an audiophile but I'm sick of gaming advertised headsets and I decided to get myself a boom mic and ditch a "gaming" headset for some good open-back headphones. I went through the headphones on the first page kindly rated and reviewed by Mad Lust Envy but you see I'm and indecisive person and can't seem to choose one of them. Could any kind soul point me in the right direction for all round headphones for gaming, with slightly more to offer in the single player experience and a good base, I do play competitively in Apex, CS:GO etc but the single player experience is more important to me. My price range would have to be something around €100-150 more or less for the headphones and I don't mind spending a bit extra on an amp if the headphones would last me a good while.
> 
> So far my list to choose from contains these headphones :
> 
> ...



I was in the exact same situation a few years ago and decided to go with the Fidelio X2. It's great for the use you are describing and can't recommend it enough. I own other headphones now and the X2 is still one of my favs.


----------



## AveAlpha

HairyHook said:


> I was in the exact same situation a few years ago and decided to go with the Fidelio X2. It's great for the use you are describing and can't recommend it enough. I own other headphones now and the X2 is still one of my favs.


Thank you very much for your reply and your suggestion. I heard many good things about Fidelio's both the original and X2, I used to look for the original ones a while ago since I heard from a similar forum that they're a tad bit better if you can find them but I failed, perhaps it's better for me to just go for the X2s.

Edit: Spelling


----------



## SierraMadre

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks I was looking at the shp9500 how are they for RPGs or are they mostly for fps
> 
> Thanks


If you can stretch your budget, I’d recommend the Fidelio X2 over the SHPs. They’re definitely the more cinematic of the two and are as good or better in pretty much every respect.


----------



## SierraMadre

AveAlpha said:


> Thank you very much for your reply and your suggestion. I heard many good things about Fidelio's both the original and X2, I used to look for the original ones a while ago since I heard from a similar forum that they're a tad bit better if you can find them but I failed, perhaps it's better for me to just go for the X2s.
> 
> Edit: Spelling


I’d look out for some fire-sale prices on the X2s during Black Friday period. The X3 is incoming (Q1 2020) and retailers will be looking to clear X2 inventory. 
You could wait for the X3s but word is they’ll launch in the 3-400 price range, if not more, so you’d likely be paying at least 3 times more for the X3s at least until they’ve been on the market long enough to see significant discounts.


----------



## SierraMadre

HairyHook said:


> I was in the exact same situation a few years ago and decided to go with the Fidelio X2. It's great for the use you are describing and can't recommend it enough. I own other headphones now and the X2 is still one of my favs.


Your situation mirrors mine! I have the HD800S now but still love the X2s. Can’t wait to see what they’ve done with the X3s although am tempering my optimism for now given some early hands-on impressions from a French AV site. They were positive about it but suggested that the improved clarity and air on the high end came at the expense of the low end presence that the X2s are famous for (relative to open backed dynamics, that is).


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy can you get Astro to send you the newest iterations of a40 and a50? Who knows, maybe they've gotten better over the years and we could actually have a nice clean wireless setup for vss on console instead of the pile of hacks/workarounds we have now.


----------



## Lay.

Yethal said:


> @Mad Lust Envy can you get Astro to send you the newest iterations of a40 and a50? Who knows, maybe they've gotten better over the years and we could actually have a nice clean wireless setup for vss on console instead of the pile of hacks/workarounds we have now.



I recently installed and tried the latest A50 setup. It might sound slightly better than 10+ years ago but  I would not want to use it. My nephew is happy though.

If you must have a wireless setup I might even recommend it. If wireless is not needed... G6 + something like HD598 + modmic is way better


----------



## Yethal

Lay. said:


> I recently installed and tried the latest A50 setup. It might sound slightly better than 10+ years ago but  I would not want to use it. My nephew is happy though.
> 
> If you must have a wireless setup I might even recommend it. If wireless is not needed... G6 + something like HD598 + modmic is way better


I already have the X7 I'm not concerned about the wired setup but I'm not going to run a 5m long xlr from the amp to my couch if there is a wireless solution available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal said:


> @Mad Lust Envy can you get Astro to send you the newest iterations of a40 and a50? Who knows, maybe they've gotten better over the years and we could actually have a nice clean wireless setup for vss on console instead of the pile of hacks/workarounds we have now.


I don't think the rep I was in contact with works there anymore. I haven't heard froim them in years. Maybe my A50 review didn't sit well with them. Or how I basically had to not review the A30 because... it was... not great. Things may have changed since then, and I'm certain Astro have improved their gear from all those years ago.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't think the rep I was in contact with works there anymore. I haven't heard froim them in years. Maybe my A50 review didn't sit well with them. Or how I basically had to not review the A30 because... it was... not great. Things may have changed since then, and I'm certain Astro have improved their gear from all those years ago.


Maybe it'd be worth reaching out to them. Aside from them only turtle beach manufactures wireless console compatible vss solutions so it's not like we're drowning in options here.


----------



## AveAlpha

SierraMadre said:


> I’d look out for some fire-sale prices on the X2s during Black Friday period. The X3 is incoming (Q1 2020) and retailers will be looking to clear X2 inventory.
> You could wait for the X3s but word is they’ll launch in the 3-400 price range, if not more, so you’d likely be paying at least 3 times more for the X3s at least until they’ve been on the market long enough to see significant discounts.


That's a brilliant advice, I had no idea X3's are around the corner. I'll look out for some X2 sales, thank you very much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just received both the Fulla and Hel from Schiit. Looks like I'll be a busy bee for bit, not including dealing with the LCD-1.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> I already have the X7 I'm not concerned about the wired setup but I'm not going to run a 5m long xlr from the amp to my couch if there is a wireless solution available.


A40 is not wireless by any definition anymore though .  . .?  They’ve ditched the wireless receiver and base station emitter combo. The entire chain would be wired.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> A40 is not wireless by any definition anymore though .  . .?  They’ve ditched the wireless receiver and base station emitter combo. The entire chain would be wired.


A50 is though


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> A50 is though


Of course. I was just puzzled as to why you asked for the A40 as well given you already have a X7 and your stated priority for the enquiry appeared to be wireless with no hacks / works arounds.

I mean for the price of an A50 one could get what is widely considered to be the best wireless gaming headset specifically designed for Xbox One, the Steelseries Arctis 9x, along with the best that is specifically designed for the PS, the Platinum Wireless, and still have a chunk of change left over after buying *both*. 
Do Amazon not do no-quibble return/refunds in your area?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 5, 2019)

I'm quite astounded by how nice the Schiit Fulla sounds for such a tiny device. The Hel is even better of course, but damn... for sub $100 for a dac/amp... I'm actually really, really surprised they got it to sound this good.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm quite astounded by how nice the Schiit Fulla sounds for such a tiny device. The Hel is even better of course, but damn... for sub $100 for a dac/amp... I'm actually really, really surprised they got it to sound this good.


How are you feeding them VSS? G6 through lineout?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SierraMadre said:


> How are you feeding them VSS? G6 through lineout?


You can use the G6 as the DAC and the Hel or Fulla as the amp, but as far as using the internal dacs, neither can, as they're usb only. For now, I'm stuck with the gimped Atmos/Sonic. I'm not touching HeSuVi, and I don't have any other VSS atm that is software based.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can use the G6 as the DAC and the Hel or Fulla as the amp, but as far as using the internal dacs, neither can, as they're usb only. For now, I'm stuck with the gimped Atmos/Sonic. I'm not touching HeSuVi, and I don't have any other VSS atm that is software based.


How is Atmos gimped?


----------



## Snikibiki

if I would cut a lot of bass in EQ k712 PRO can performance same/similiar as k702 for gaming?


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 5, 2019)

Snikibiki said:


> if I would cut a lot of bass in EQ k712 PRO can performance same/similiar as k702 for gaming?


Probably. I think the fact that this is your fourth time asking the question in a relatively short space of time with no response means that nobody has both to compare so you’re best off just buying them from somewhere that offers return / refunds and trying them.

Alternatively if you want a middle ground between K702 and K712 then get these, they are superb for gaming.

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-akg-k7xx-red-edition-eu

Also, read this if you haven’t already:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/


----------



## Playstation

Got the CAL's today. Not bad. The pads are plenty deep, however, the circumference does make them more like on ear, for me. 

Does anyone know of any custom pads that work well with these headphones and where to get them? thanks


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Of course. I was just puzzled as to why you asked for the A40 as well given you already have a X7 and your stated priority for the enquiry appeared to be wireless with no hacks / works arounds.
> 
> I mean for the price of an A50 one could get what is widely considered to be the best wireless gaming headset specifically designed for Xbox One, the Steelseries Arctis 9x, along with the best that is specifically designed for the PS, the Platinum Wireless, and still have a chunk of change left over after buying *both*.
> Do Amazon not do no-quibble return/refunds in your area?


I asked for a40 because if MLE were to rereview the a50 he might as well also do the a40. But personally I'd only be interested in the a50 for the wireless convenience. Haven't used the Arctis and I don't see a reason to since i don't own an Xbox but I did try the sony headset and it's a giant ball of suck


----------



## Scriba

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can use the G6 as the DAC and the Hel or Fulla as the amp, but as far as using the internal dacs, neither can, as they're usb only. For now, I'm stuck with the gimped Atmos/Sonic. I'm not touching HeSuVi, and I don't have any other VSS atm that is software based.



So feeding VSS to a dac is only possible with optical cable and not usb? If i use optical but the dac and the amp are connected with RCA the VSS signal is lost aswell? I'm talking about a normal HIFI dac (no surround sound options) which is feeded with a software VSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 6, 2019)

Scriba said:


> So feeding VSS to a dac is only possible with optical cable and not usb? If i use optical but the dac and the amp are connected with RCA the VSS signal is lost aswell? I'm talking about a normal HIFI dac (no surround sound options) which is feeded with a software VSS.



That would be ideal (feeding VSS via optical). For the source to remain digital it's have to be sent either via USB or optical. You're very limited on software solutions that send VSS to a DAC through USB. As opposed to external devices that can send VSS through optical.

If your DAC received a VSS signal through optical, it will remain no matter what comes after. Hell that's what I do with the Magni and Modi. I send VSS through the optical to the Modi, and the RCA of the Modi goes to the Magni, and boom, I have VSS.

The Schiit Hel and Fulla in question DO NOT have optical inputs. I can send VSS to their RCA inputs, but that just means I'm not using their dacs, and just using their internal amps. So my dac would be whatever sent that VSS through the RCA. Either my G6 or my Xonar U3. In this instance, the G6 would make a fine DAC anyways, though I wouldn't recommend the U3 if using it as a DAC.


----------



## Scriba

All right, thanks for the detailed clarification!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 6, 2019)

Scriba said:


> All right, thanks for the detailed clarification!


It's important to understand that just because a DAC has VSS enabled, doesn't mean that their optical out is sending that VSS. Something like the Mixamp 5.8. If you turn on VSS, the DAC won't send that. Why? Because the optical out in this device is passthrough only. Meaning it's sending the same signal it received. Nothing the DAC did to alter it to turn it into VSS affects this.

The G6 and Xonar U3's optical out isn't passthrough. The signal they send out is affected by the DAC unless you enabled line out mode, where it won't touch the signal.


----------



## Scriba

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's important to understand that just because a DAC has VSS enabled, doesn't mean that their optical out is sending that VSS. Something like the Mixamp 5.8. If you turn on VSS, the DAC won't send that. Why? Because the optical out in this device is passthrough only. Meaning it's sending the same signal it received. Nothing the DAC did to alter it to turn it into VSS affects this.
> 
> The G6 and Xonar U3's optical out isn't passthrough. The signal they send out is affected by the DAC unless you enabled line out mode, where it won't touch the signal.



Ngl i read it 3 times and now i understand it haha!  It's nice to know that most devices are passthrough only. For me it shouldn't be a problem as i looking for a non gaming dac (like topping) which gets feeded by optical input / VSS signal (PC software like atmos). My guess is, that it should work aswell, if the game supports a virtual sound like overwatch for example?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scriba said:


> Ngl i read it 3 times and now i understand it haha!  It's nice to know that most devices are passthrough only. For me it shouldn't be a problem as i looking for a non gaming dac (like topping) which gets feeded by optical input / VSS signal (PC software like atmos). My guess is, that it should work aswell, if the game supports a virtual sound like overwatch for example?



For your situation, then yes, Atmos will transfer over as that is directly added by the source.

Though tbh, I still feel Atmos doesn't work quite right. I dunno.

I'm sitting here waiting on the day they'll allow us to tweak Atmos with a program. Room size being one that needs to exist.


----------



## Scriba

Mad Lust Envy said:


> For your situation, then yes, Atmos will transfer over as that is directly added by the source.
> 
> Though tbh, I still feel Atmos doesn't work quite right. I dunno.
> 
> I'm sitting here waiting on the day they'll allow us to tweak Atmos with a program. Room size being one that needs to exist.



Can you recommand another software which works better?


----------



## Yethal

Scriba said:


> Can you recommand another software which works better?


Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head is pretty great


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 6, 2019)

Yethal said:


> I asked for a40 because if MLE were to rereview the a50 he might as well also do the a40. But personally I'd only be interested in the a50 for the wireless convenience. Haven't used the Arctis and I don't see a reason to since i don't own an Xbox but I did try the sony headset and it's a giant ball of suck


Well you said console and were talking about hacks and workarounds so I assumed you were referring to the Xbox USB / mic vs PS4 issue. OK, so if Xbox isn’t a concern for you and you don’t like the Sony’s then what about the regular Arctis Pro wireless? Or you don’t like them either?
Whatever the case, it’s doubtful that ASTRO will have changed the A50 to any really significant extent since MLE reviewed it. My brother’s pair which is the latest model donKt sound much different from his previous model that he got about 5 years ago.



Yethal said:


> Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head is pretty great


Adds at least 30ms of audio delay, upto 60 for some of he larger “rooms”. Or at least that was the case as recently as 2 years ago. Not ideal for gaming.



Scriba said:


> Can you recommand another software which works better?


Whether it’s better will be down to your own personal preference but Boom 3D is pretty good has a 30 day free trial and for a lifetime licence costs about the same as Atmos for headphone or DTS headphone X. Personally I have no problem with Atmos for headphone’s implementation though, whether it be room size or whatever else. When it first debuted, it was terrible but since then it has received several major updates and is now at least as good as Dolby headphone IMO.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> For your situation, then yes, Atmos will transfer over as that is directly added by the source.
> 
> Though tbh, I still feel Atmos doesn't work quite right. I dunno.
> 
> I'm sitting here waiting on the day they'll allow us to tweak Atmos with a program. Room size being one that needs to exist.


Purely in terms of VSS, would you say that your Atmos reservations are the same whether you use your multichannel capable internal sound card or G6 or stereo only Schiit equipment? 
As you already know, engaging Atmos sets the channel config to stereo in the Windows sound manager but I wonder if, for standard non-atmos multichannel PCM content, the source device needs to be at least *capable* of multichannel (even though Atmos will set the channel config to stereo). . . ?Atmos does seem less convincing on my stereo dac-only laptop in comparison to applying to the G6 or my desktop’s multichannel sound card.

[merged]


----------



## TeeReQs

@SierraMadre There's a multi quote feature, so you can quote everyone in a single post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 6, 2019)

30ms of delay is less than 2 frames. That's nearly imperceptible...

I played with it and didn't have any issues.

That's 2 out of 60 in a second.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 6, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 30ms of delay is less than 2 frames. That's nearly imperceptible...
> 
> I played with it and didn't have any issues.
> 
> That's 2 out of 60 in a second.


It was perceptible to me, especially when panning the camera across / around a source cue and that was with the gamer preset, the ‘quickest’ of the room profiles. Some are upto 60ms.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Well you said console and were talking about hacks and workarounds so I assumed you were referring to the Xbox USB / mic vs PS4 issue. OK, so if Xbox isn’t a concern for you and you don’t like the Sony’s then what about the regular Arctis Pro wireless? Or you don’t like them either?
> Whatever the case, it’s doubtful that ASTRO will have changed the A50 to any really significant extent since MLE reviewed it. My brother’s pair which is the latest model donKt sound much different from his previous model that he got about 5 years ago.



Haven't tried the Arctis pro. Dunno maybe it actually sounds good. Considering how small the wireless, console-compatible vss headset market is it may be a pretty compelling option.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 6, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Haven't tried the Arctis pro. Dunno maybe it actually sounds good. Considering how small the wireless, console-compatible vss headset market is it may be a pretty compelling option.


It seems to be the most critically lauded of the multi-format gaming dac/amp + wireless headset combos of late. It could of course just be down to advertising affiliations and what not but go back five years or so and it was always the A50 that topped tech publications’ ‘best wireless gaming headsets’ lists but these days it’s almost always the Arctis Pro.
You would be looking at DTS headphone X processing with the Arctis instead of Dolby Headphone though so not sure if that’s a dealbreaker for you.


----------



## Snikibiki

In terms of earpads, usually thicker or thinner are better for soundstage and imaging/positioning? Same question for velour vs micro suede.


----------



## royster

SierraMadre said:


> Purely in terms of VSS, would you say that your Atmos reservations are the same whether you use your multichannel capable internal sound card or G6 or stereo only Schiit equipment?
> As you already know, engaging Atmos sets the channel config to stereo in the Windows sound manager but I wonder if, for standard non-atmos multichannel PCM content, the source device needs to be at least *capable* of multichannel (even though Atmos will set the channel config to stereo). . . ?Atmos does seem less convincing on my stereo dac-only laptop in comparison to applying to the G6 or my desktop’s multichannel sound card.
> 
> [merged]



I have a question about this as well. Ive been trying Atmos for headphones software trial on my windows PC with my HD 650s and I cannot tell the difference at all, in Destiny 2. I'm thinking of buying a G6 or Soundblast X3. I currently use a fulla 2 as my dac, and vali 2 as my amp. Also the SXFI Air C is on sale for $80 on creative's website, so might try that.


----------



## SierraMadre

Snikibiki said:


> In terms of earpads, usually thicker or thinner are better for soundstage and imaging/positioning? Same question for velour vs micro suede.


Depends on the headphone and the the kind of pads in question. If you are set on the K702 or or K712 then don’t get Brainwavz microsuede. I got them for my AKG K7XX and while they felt great, they sounded absolutely dreadful, completely wrecked the sound. I then got Dekoni Elite velours and a Elite hybrids and they did exactly what I wanted, added a touch more space/thickness so my ear no longer touched the drivers. The velours sounded more or less like the stock pads while the hybrids added a little smoothness to the highs and some more presence to the bass. As far as the AKG K7- series goes, I’d stay away from Brainwavz.


----------



## icestching

Hey guys,

Long time lurker here.
I'm currently playing on console (PS4 Pro) until next month. My plan is to switch to PC.

This is my setup for console at the moment:
- SoundBlaster G6
- Audio Technica ATH-AD700 / AKG K702

So what what would be "the best" setup in terms of positional audio on PC?
Should I stick with the G6 (SBX)?
Should I get a Creative Super X-Fi or X3?
Or should I just get a good amp + Dolby Access for Windows?

Sorry for the many questions, but I have so many options now on PC compared to PS4.


Thanks in advance


----------



## illram (Nov 7, 2019)

icestching said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Long time lurker here.
> I'm currently playing on console (PS4 Pro) until next month. My plan is to switch to PC.
> ...



The G6 is honestly fine but if you don't mind making a luxurious additional purchase of a Super X-Fi device, its 7.1 VSS is better. Front and rear cues are more pronounced than SBX, and to me it is not just a tiny difference, it is very noticeable. I'm pretty sure either one or both of your headphones are on the list of pre-calibrated cans.

The G6 and then turn it off with Atmos (when supported) is a fine combo though. The small upgrade from SBX to SX-Fi depends on your internal FOMO vs. bank account comfort-levels really.

Dolby Atmos does work well with some games specifically designed for it. When it does work the height channels are pretty cool and worth it in my opinion. Better than Super X-Fi for that reason. Borderlands 3, Overwatch, and Modern Warfare are the only 3 I have tried it with. Not a lot of games have Atmos support though.


----------



## dieterverberck

Hi i use now the sony z1r for everything: music games movies.
When i play games i use boom 3d audio  or nahimic software for surround.
I used the dolby atmos software from windows ,but i didnt heard a difference.
But can i get better sound for movies and games with an external gaming amp dac or is a regular stereo amp dac better with surround software on the pc better?

Thanks


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Adds at least 30ms of audio delay, upto 60 for some of he larger “rooms”. Or at least that was the case as recently as 2 years ago. Not ideal for gaming.


Go to around 5:50 mark to find out why this doesn't really matter


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah I was playing with a 45ms bluetooth low latency codec for awhile, and it's downright miniscule.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 7, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Go to around 5:50 mark to find out why this doesn't really matter



I felt the delay of OOYH. You guys may not have, but I did, and I wasn’t looking/listening out for it either. In fact, it hadn’t even occurred to me that I might experience it until I did experience it which prompted me to look into it and find other users and pro reviewers had commented on it too. Scriba can try it for him/herself and if he/she doesn’t feel any delay and likes OOYH’s VSS, great, no problem. They are the prospective user in question, their impression/experience, is ultimately the only one that matters for their use case.

As for your link, if it’s all a negligible much of a muchness that wouldn’t really be noticeable or detrimental to anyone as per your claim, then why does the Youtuber’s conclusion from 6mins 4 seconds contradict that notion? Moreover, the very creation/existence of the vid in the first place was obviously due to the questions raised by users sensitive to audio delay.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> As for your link, if it’s all a negligible much of a muchness that wouldn’t really be noticeable or detrimental to anyone as per your claim, then why does the Youtuber’s conclusion from 6mins 4 seconds contradict that notion? Moreover, the very creation/existence of the vid in the first place was obviously due to the questions raised by users sensitive to audio delay.



Because his conclusion is absolutely correct, lower audio latency would absolutely improve the gaming experience. However as most games exhibit almost 200ms of lag anyway the extra latency added by OOYH is neglible in comparison. Not to mention there are dedicated gaming presets available that offer lower latency still.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah I was playing with a 45ms bluetooth low latency codec for awhile, and it's downright miniscule.


IIRC we had a pretty similar conversation about processing latency a few years ago when you reviewed OOYH for the first time.


----------



## Jornel

Hello guys.

my current setup for gaming (FPS games on PC) is:
- Sennheiser GSX1000 Dac/amp
- Phillips SHP9500s
- V-moda Boom pro mic

For christmas i was looking to invest in something new (only if i´m getting way better performance) and i was looking to AKG712 pro.
I look for good positional and imaging audio on my headphones. I was looking at the sennheiser gsp 500/600 but the "gaming" sticker on those headphones is pushing me back.

My questions are:
- do the AKG712 pro worth the upgrade?
- the AKG712 pro are 60ohms and the GSX1000 are max at 50ohms Do they work good on the gsx?
- i heard of a plug with a 3.5mm jack output to use with the v-moda. Do you guys think it will work?
- Do you guys think i shoud just save my money and keep what i have?

Thanks in advance and sorry for some bad Inglish i might have said.


----------



## headphonesonly

Jornel said:


> Hello guys.
> 
> my current setup for gaming (FPS games on PC) is:
> - Sennheiser GSX1000 Dac/amp
> ...


K712 compared to shps is not an upgrade imo. I didn’t like the sound quality of the k712 especially when listening to music. Soundstage was wider from the sides but front and rear imaging was vague at least to my ears. The shps have better positional audio especially front/rear positional audio. And the gsx doesn’t have enough power to drive k712.

The Audeze LCD1 is more of an upgrade compared to shps but I’m not sure how much those are for you. The Hifiman Sundara is a good alternative to the lcd1.


----------



## Jornel

headphonesonly said:


> K712 compared to shps is not an upgrade imo. I didn’t like the sound quality of the k712 especially when listening to music. Soundstage was wider from the sides but front and rear imaging was vague at least to my ears. The shps have better positional audio especially front/rear positional audio. And the gsx doesn’t have enough power to drive k712.
> 
> The Audeze LCD1 is more of an upgrade compared to shps but I’m not sure how much those are for you. The Hifiman Sundara is a good alternative to the lcd1.



They are too pricey atm for me and a little dificult to get in  my country. But thanks for your feedback


----------



## jbjs5820

ZzBOG said:


> Do you think X3 would be a noticeable upgrade over Omni? Also I don't see SBX mentioned on X3 page - or is it just be default there?


X3 and G6 both have SBX.
X3 has sxfi. 
Tested both. And i´ve changed my opinion. For now i´ll stick to X3.


----------



## illram

G6 is $100 at Amazon right now...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FY45F2S/


----------



## agentpt5

Does X3 work on Linux?


----------



## royster

illram said:


> G6 is $100 at Amazon right now...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FY45F2S/



looks like its back up to normal price already....


----------



## illram

royster said:


> looks like its back up to normal price already....



Dang. That lasted only 4 hours, according to the original reddit thread where I found it.


----------



## Zachik

illram said:


> G6 is $100 at Amazon right now...
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FY45F2S/


If only it supported Android... 

Anyone aware of a device, that can be used with Android tablet (the new Samsung S6) via USB-C, and provide virtual surround for watching movies (Netflix / Amazon Prime / Hulu)?


----------



## illram

Zachik said:


> If only it supported Android...
> 
> Anyone aware of a device, that can be used with Android tablet (the new Samsung S6) via USB-C, and provide virtual surround for watching movies (Netflix / Amazon Prime / Hulu)?



I think Android recently added Atmos, didn't it? 

I don't know if those apps on Android can otherwise put out discrete 5.1 or 7.1 audio. The Super X-Fi USB stick would otherwise work if it did, but I never got the VSS to work with media on any of my android devices.


----------



## AudioManNewb

icestching said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Long time lurker here.
> I'm currently playing on console (PS4 Pro) until next month. My plan is to switch to PC.
> ...


I have tried them all the best VSS by far is Super X-Fi once you get a good headmap.


----------



## AudioManNewb (Nov 8, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Haven't tried the Arctis pro. Dunno maybe it actually sounds good. Considering how small the wireless, console-compatible vss headset market is it may be a pretty compelling option.


The arctis pro is complete overpriced garbage the DT 770 destroys it on all fronts for the same price or usually cheaper. And there implementation of the DTS X has a terrifying lag my gunshot had already hit the target before I heard the gun shot. SXFI once you have a good headmap is the best VSS I have come by with waves nx being runner up. A really good gaming headphone that deserves praise and a look into IMO are the Asus ROG Delta and Delta core depending if you already have a DAC.


----------



## Yethal

AudioManNewb said:


> The arctis pro is complete overpriced garbage the DT 770 destroys it on all fronts for the same price or usually cheaper. And there implementation of the DTS X has a terrifying lag my gunshot had already hit the target before I heard the gun shot. SXFI once you have a good headmap is the best VSS I have come by with waves nx being runner up. A really good gaming headphone that deserves praise and a look into IMO are the Asus ROG Delta and Delta core depending if you already have a DAC.


Must've missed the part where sxfi became wireless and console compatible.


----------



## Zerufos

Looking for noise isolating/noise cancelling headphones that won’t make me miss my Audio Technica AD700’s.

The new AirPods Pro’s made me realize the benefits of noise reduction for competitive gaming so I’ve been on the search for a new pair of cans.

The biggest reason I love the AD700’s is that the mids are not recessed like the Sennheiser G4ME ONE’s. This gives presence/closeness to every sound queue/ability not just footsteps. Also looking for positional accuracy and a wide soundstage.


----------



## headphonesonly

I forgot that this existed. Might even be what everyone is looking for. Dunno how they sound though. https://lucidsound.com/collections/...s/ls41-wireless-surround-sound-gaming-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think that company sent me a message a while back but I declined. Wasn't in the right mindset to review. They do look nice though.


----------



## br3wsk1

Hey @Mad Lust Envy , I've been a lurker on and off for a while. I've actually suggested this very thread to many folks for quite some time.. but now I'm here to seek advice for myself.

I've got a budget of ~$800 for quality headphones for 90% competitive gaming and 10% music/fun via my PC.

Comfort is more important than competitive sound cues for me. I have a larger than average head to the point where I've found many headphones uncomfortable beyond belief. My Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pros clamping force was far too great to the point inducing headaches. Steelseries Arctis Pro suspension band design lead to the metal frame resting directly on top of my head.

Additionally, I just want something that feels nice and premium. My Audiotechnica AD-900x felt flimsy, and over time the wing design gave out and resulted in extreme sag. While I could use a rubber-band, that was less than comfortable.

Elsewhere, folks have suggested I look at HD 800's, HD 660's, DT 1990, Focal Elex, Fidelos x2. This guide has me leaning toward AKG 702 or 712. Honestly though, I'm a bit out of my league here and was hoping for some guidance.

Additionally, I upgraded from my old (spastic) asus xonar stx internal card to the Creative Sound BlasterX G6 based on this guide and some additional reading. While I've been happy so far, would there be any option that would outclass the G6 (DAC & Amp) at let's say a ~$600 budget? Again, purposes here would be 90% gaming/10% music via PC.


----------



## mindbomb

Zerufos said:


> Looking for noise isolating/noise cancelling headphones that won’t make me miss my Audio Technica AD700’s.
> 
> The new AirPods Pro’s made me realize the benefits of noise reduction for competitive gaming so I’ve been on the search for a new pair of cans.
> 
> The biggest reason I love the AD700’s is that the mids are not recessed like the Sennheiser G4ME ONE’s. This gives presence/closeness to every sound queue/ability not just footsteps. Also looking for positional accuracy and a wide soundstage.



I was looking at noise cancellation too, reminded by the release of those airpods. If you assume the noise of a gaming pc is relatively constant, does one need special headphones for noise cancellation? Can't you just record the noise, invert it yourself, and try to sync it up so it cancels out, with any headphones?


----------



## Emix

Hi Guys,

Thanks to this forum I have AKG K612 Pro and sound blaster zx for about 3 years now. I am happy - for my types of gaming (fps mostly) this setup is very good, but not perfect 

I noticed you can have more bass, more fun and more immersion when used Astro A40s but their sound quality is definitely worse than AKGs and also enemy positioning was harder than with AKGs.

My question is, what headphones should I buy to have more fun, more bass, more immersion without sacrifying sound quality and positioning / soundscene?

I selected few models that are priced more or less the same:
- AKG K712 Pro
- Philips Fidelio X2HR
- Sennheiser HD600

Or maybe some other?

What would you say? What should I pick?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## headphonesonly

Just got the M570 today. Played a game of BFV and the M570 have better positional audio.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Have you tried plugging the AKG K612 Pro, directly into the SB-Zx card, without using the ACM module?
Soundmagic HP200 headphones would be an improvement for music audio.


----------



## Yedaself

What you guys think about Sony mdr-1am2?


----------



## Emix

PurpleAngel said:


> Have you tried plugging the AKG K612 Pro, directly into the SB-Zx card, without using the ACM module?
> Soundmagic HP200 headphones would be an improvement for music audio.



Nope, always connected to the extension.


----------



## stinhambo

pietcux said:


> The Sennheiser Gaming Headsets are serious stuff compared to the typical "Gaming" products out there. You could look at the GSP 300 for starters. They sound very good already.



They do indeed sound very good!


----------



## Zerufos

mindbomb said:


> I was looking at noise cancellation too, reminded by the release of those airpods. If you assume the noise of a gaming pc is relatively constant, does one need special headphones for noise cancellation? Can't you just record the noise, invert it yourself, and try to sync it up so it cancels out, with any headphones?


It doesn't seem to be an easy thing to do. You would need microphones in both cups of the headphones. If the microphone was placed in a separate box it would be pretty much impossible to receive the correct signal required to invert and cancel the noise.

It would be really cool if a company out there made a DIY kit to transform normal headphones into noise-cancelling ones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Emix said:


> Nope, always connected to the extension.


Wonder if connecting the headphones directly to the SB-Zx card, without using the ACM, improves audio quality?


----------



## super kermit (Nov 13, 2019)

I am looking for an upgrade from Steelseries Arctis 7 Wireless

Must be WIRELESS and HAVE A MIC (for dragon dictate) and twitch streaming: and therefore USB too.

THINKING -

SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless



OR

Sennheiser GSP 670



HyperX Cloud Orbit S



$$ not an issue just want the best for sound

GAMING only - NO music or movies


----------



## Emix

Guys, taking decision to one short question:

If I have k612 pro and would like to have more immersive and fun headphones with similar soundstage, should I take k712 pro, Fidelio X2 or make bass mod on k612 pro and stay with them, because for gaming benefits from the two above mentioned will not be as big as the price difference?


----------



## Xspearo

super kermit said:


> I am looking for an upgrade from Steelseries Arctis 7 Wireless
> 
> Must be WIRELESS and HAVE A MIC (for dragon dictate) and twitch streaming: and therefore USB too.
> 
> ...





What about "hyperx cloud orbit s"?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WHFHHCM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_tlwYDbWCPM7NZ


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 11, 2019)

Anyone with plenty of PC experience? I can get the Schiit HEL to be picked up as both an audio device and microphone/chat device. The Schiit Fulla I can't get to be picked up as a mic device, only as an audio device. Also, when I plug in a mic on the fulla, it mutes general audio. So yeah, not exactly sure what's going on here. Considering I'm not well versed on the microphone chat side of PC audio, I'm not the best at figuring this one out.

Also found that the PS4 Pro doesn't pick up the HEL as an audio device at all, but will pick up the Fulla. Again, it still mutes everything if a mic gets plugged in to the Fulla.


----------



## br3wsk1

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone with plenty of PC experience? I can get the Schiit HEL to be picked up as both an audio device and microphone/chat device. The Schiit Fulla I can't get to be picked up as a mic device, only as an audio device. Also, when I plug in a mic on the fulla, it mutes general audio. So yeah, not exactly sure what's going on here. Considering I'm not well versed on the microphone chat side of PC audio, I'm not the best at figuring this one out.
> 
> Also found that the PS4 Pro doesn't pick up the HEL as an audio device at all, but will pick up the Fulla. Again, it still mutes everything if a mic gets plugged in to the Fulla.



I don't have any experience with any Schiit equipment but I have a few suggestions that maybe you overlooked.

You mention the Fulla works with your PS4, but do you have any other PC or laptop device you can plug the Fulla into? For the sake of verifying duplication of the issue outside of your primary PC.

Beyond that..

Have you tried swapping the usb cable? 
Have you tried other USB ports? 
Are you running it off a USB hub?
Are you running it off USB power or bypassing it with a direct power source in addition to having it connected USB?
If you are running it off USB power, are you trying to charge a device through the Fulla?

Have you verified you are displaying hidden devices in your windows input devices?

As far as the PS4 issue, I ran into that a while back with the Arctis Pro DAC I believe. I know I resolved it through some obscure setting in the menu. I'll see if I can find what I did and relay it back to you.


----------



## br3wsk1 (Nov 11, 2019)

br3wsk1 said:


> I don't have any experience with any Schiit equipment but I have a few suggestions that maybe you overlooked.
> 
> You mention the Fulla works with your PS4, but do you have any other PC or laptop device you can plug the Fulla into? For the sake of verifying duplication of the issue outside of your primary PC.
> 
> ...



EDIT - Check your PC power management settings. If it's set to Power Save or Balance, try changing it to High Performance and restart. Power Save and Balanced can present USB power management issues at random times, which can actually be compounded if you use the hibernate/sleep windows feature.

EDIT2 - I've been assuming you run windows OS, forgive me if I assumed wrong. Have you tried manually installing/updating the driver via the drivers page on Schiit.com? There are rare occurrences where users encounter driver install issues and have to manually do it themselves.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've tried all that normal stuff, it should all be as expected. Tested two different PCs in different scenarios and configs. Fulla's mic input doesn't show up. Even tried installing the manual drivers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Disregard, I'm an idiot. The box clearly says Fulla 2. They sent me the wrong model, which doesn't even have mic input. Lol. Gaaaah. He's aware. Lol.


----------



## br3wsk1

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Disregard, I'm an idiot. The box clearly says Fulla 2. They sent me the wrong model, which doesn't even have mic input. Lol. Gaaaah. He's aware. Lol.



Haha, well damn. Hopefully you can get that corrected quickly.


----------



## super kermit

Have not heard of the HyperX.

Any reason to look at them?


----------



## Xspearo (Nov 11, 2019)

super kermit said:


> Have not heard of the HyperX.
> 
> Any reason to look at them?



Hyperx headsets are a pretty good staple in "gaming headsets" and the "hyperx cloud orbits" are base on Audeze mobius(posted a link below) which are suppose to be a good audio brand. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can chime in because I'm also looking to upgrade for gaming purposes only.

Im currently trying out the "hyperx cloud mix" and "steel series pro", both wired(i preferred wired) plugged into sound blasterx G5. I really cant tell a difference for sound whoring footsteps. I only been testing for like one day though.

Audeze mobius:
https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius

Audeze mobius on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Audeze-Surround-Tracking-Bluetooth-Headphones/dp/B07B8Z8S85

Hyperx cloud orbits:
https://www.amazon.com/HyperX-Cloud-Orbit-Headphones-Detachable/dp/B07WD66FL5


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone with plenty of PC experience? I can get the Schiit HEL to be picked up as both an audio device and microphone/chat device. The Schiit Fulla I can't get to be picked up as a mic device, only as an audio device. Also, when I plug in a mic on the fulla, it mutes general audio. So yeah, not exactly sure what's going on here. Considering I'm not well versed on the microphone chat side of PC audio, I'm not the best at figuring this one out.
> 
> Also found that the PS4 Pro doesn't pick up the HEL as an audio device at all, but will pick up the Fulla. Again, it still mutes everything if a mic gets plugged in to the Fulla.


The second issue sounds as if mic and phone jacks were reversed. Try plugging them the other way around.

Did you connect external power to Hel? Unlike Fulla it won't work off of usb data port, it needs to be plugged in to a separate power supply (phone charger will do).


----------



## Mrdobson

br3wsk1 said:


> I don't have any experience with any Schiit equipment but I have a few suggestions that maybe you overlooked.
> 
> You mention the Fulla works with your PS4, but do you have any other PC or laptop device you can plug the Fulla into? For the sake of verifying duplication of the issue outside of your primary PC.
> 
> ...




The Fulla 3 doesn't work on my Ps4 at all


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2019)

Yethal said:


> The second issue sounds as if mic and phone jacks were reversed. Try plugging them the other way around.
> 
> Did you connect external power to Hel? Unlike Fulla it won't work off of usb data port, it needs to be plugged in to a separate power supply (phone charger will do).


Nah, it was that it was a Fulla 2. Doesn't have a mic jack. Where the mic jack is on the 3, it's an analog in on the 2. So if you put any cable into the analog input, it mutes all other sources.

I mean, it would've been easy for anyone else to notice, but I've not had a great weekend, being uber sick and all. My mind is far from capable of common sense atm.

As for the HEL, yeah, I'm using an external power brick as well. I'll have to recheck that it's all proper later. Right now, I'm laying down and can't be arsed...


----------



## sanj

Mad Lust it is possible to have these external dac's like HEL and to keep virtual surround? Is there any way?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2019)

Well, you can use the HEL as an amp only, and just take the signal from a VSS enabled dac like a Creative G6.

As for wanting the HEL as a dac with VSS capability, there's only a few instances:

1. PC use with Dolby Atmos (which I don't think works all that well)
2. PC with software programs like Darrin Fong's OOYH head software, Waves NX, all which cost quite a bit of money.
3. The grey area route of using HeSuVi which has all types of VSS though may not sound identical to the real versions, but close enough. This is probably the most reliable way of getting VSS, but since it's giving you licensed VSS that you normally pay for, I don't like to advertise this one, personally. There's a ton to setup and get to work properly as well.

I bit the bullet and just bought DTS-X for $20. We'll see how it stacks up on PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

One thing I absolutely hate about Atmos and DTS-Headphone X when you set them on windows, is that they default your dac to 16bit/48khz. I mean, I get it, because it's taking multi-channel audio of that rate to get it to work, but I wish it was like the Xonar U3, where it still keeps the basic stereo format at 24/96 that I set it to. So when I don't wanna use Atmos or DTS-HX, I have to go to the sound control panelk and set everything back to 24/96khz etc. It's annoying.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, you can use the HEL as an amp only, and just take the signal from a VSS enabled dac like a Creative G6.
> 
> As for wanting the HEL as a dac with VSS capability, there's only a few instances:
> 
> ...





Mad Lust Envy said:


> One thing I absolutely hate about Atmos and DTS-Headphone X when you set them on windows, is that they default your dac to 16bit/48khz. I mean, I get it, because it's taking multi-channel audio of that rate to get it to work, but I wish it was like the Xonar U3, where it still keeps the basic stereo format at 24/96 that I set it to. So when I don't wanna use Atmos or DTS-HX, I have to go to the sound control panelk and set everything back to 24/96khz etc. It's annoying.


If your music software outputs using wasapi then sample rate set in windows doesn't matter, it's going to be set to file's sample rate anyway.

As for software vss, there's Razer Surround. Probably still sounds like crap but hey, it's free


----------



## sanj

are these software's even paid ones as good as sbx for example?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2019)

I use Winamp which for some reason, the Wasapi plug in doesn't work quite right, so I don't use that.





sanj said:


> are these software's even paid ones as good as sbx for example?



Atmos or DTS-X...no.

OOYH, there's some that are good.

HeSuVi, yes. It has presets like SBX.


----------



## Xspearo

The sound blasterx G6 is on sale again for $100 on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FY45F2S/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So after comparing Atmos to DTS Headphone X briefly, I definitely find Atmos to be MUCH better. DTS Headphone X lacks any real REAR depth. Atmos does better in this regard. Also, it seems that the Dolby app has finally allowed for some customization, where it may be that turn off gaming mode, has allowed the vss to sound more like expected, which is good. I'll need more testing.


 

I think Performance mode may have been shrinking the room size.

The DTS app also has somewhat a similar setting, in that you can choose balanced or spacious. Spacious is more ideal.


----------



## mindbomb

My main issue with atmos for headphone was how the room simulation was either absent or the room was pretty dead, leading to everything sounding really close to the head. I think this makes it more accessible to people who typically can't stand the subjective quality of vss, but compromises the spatial quality. I was looking forward to the dts app since it had a spacious setting and headphone equalization built in, but it is pretty disappointing if it can't do convincing rear sounds.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So after comparing Atmos to DTS Headphone X briefly, I definitely find Atmos to be MUCH better. DTS Headphone X lacks any real REAR depth. Atmos does better in this regard. Also, it seems that the Dolby app has finally allowed for some customization, where it may be that turn off gaming mode, has allowed the vss to sound more like expected, which is good. I'll need more testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Feel like sharing your custom 1 settings lol


----------



## royster

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So after comparing Atmos to DTS Headphone X briefly, I definitely find Atmos to be MUCH better. DTS Headphone X lacks any real REAR depth. Atmos does better in this regard. Also, it seems that the Dolby app has finally allowed for some customization, where it may be that turn off gaming mode, has allowed the vss to sound more like expected, which is good. I'll need more testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm guessing atmos with performance mode off is still worse than SXFI or SBX?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindbomb said:


> My main issue with atmos for headphone was how the room simulation was either absent or the room was pretty dead, leading to everything sounding really close to the head. I think this makes it more accessible to people who typically can't stand the subjective quality of vss, but compromises the spatial quality. I was looking forward to the dts app since it had a spacious setting and headphone equalization built in, but it is pretty disappointing if it can't do convincing rear sounds.


Oh that's exactly my problem with it, which is why it's only last resort, and not something I'd pick if I have SXFI, SBX, GSX, or Dolby Headphone available to me.

It's still better than DTS-X, and still much better than not using VSS.


----------



## super kermit

Ok, I like those too.


----------



## royster (Nov 14, 2019)

I bought the SXFI Air C from creative since its on sale for $80. Quick 1 hour impression is that it sounds sort of echoey? Especially with voices. At first it was kind of funny but after running around Mars in Destiny 2 I really got a much wider sense of space and dynamic range (by dynamic range Im talking about how close stuff sounds really loud and far away stuff sounds really quiet). Compared to my hd 6xx/hd 650 with Dolby Atmos for headphones, the stage is a lot bigger but it sounds sort of tinny and the highs are a bit fatiguing. Explosions and bass sounds are awesome. Mic is good quality and the boom is smooth and moves around nicely. I like the cloth earcups, after getting used to velour on the 6xx I hate leather. Headband could use more padding, otherwise its comfortable and light. Taking the pictures on the app is annoying as hell when youre doing it on your own. Gonna ask a friend to do it to see if that changes the sound.

Does anyone have good EQ settings for SXFI to tame the highs and fix the mids and make it sound a bit less echoey? Or is this just the effect that VSS does?

Im considering trying the SoundBlaster X3 with my Hd 569/Hd 6xx, and Id like to use the amp on the Schiit vali 2 instead of the built in amp. There is line out on the back but it looks like its for speakers? Can I plug the line out into the "Front" section on the x3 and then into the vali 2, and use the DAC/VSS on the x3?


----------



## illram (Nov 14, 2019)

royster said:


> I bought the SXFI Air C from creative since its on sale for $80. Quick 1 hour impression is that it sounds sort of echoey? Especially with voices. At first it was kind of funny but after running around Mars in Destiny 2 I really got a much wider sense of space and dynamic range (my dynamic range Im talking about how close stuff sounds really loud and far away stuff sounds really quiet). Compared to my hd 6xx/hd 650 with Dolby Atmos for headphones, the stage is a lot bigger but it sounds sort of tinny and the highs are a bit fatiguing. Explosions and bass sounds are awesome. Mic is good quality and the boom is smooth and moves around nicely. I like the cloth earcups, after getting used to velour on the 6xx I hate leather. Headband could use more padding, otherwise its comfortable and light. Taking the pictures on the app is annoying as hell when youre doing it on your own. Gonna ask a friend to do it to see if that changes the sound.
> 
> Does anyone have good EQ settings for SXFI to tame the highs and fix the mids and make it sound a bit less echoey? Or is this just the effect that VSS does?
> 
> Im considering trying the SoundBlaster X3 with my Hd 569/Hd 6xx, and Id like to use the amp on the Schiit vali 2 instead of the built in amp. There is line out on the back but it looks like its for speakers? Can I plug the line out into the "Front" section on the x3 and then into the vali 2, and use the DAC/VSS on the x3?



The echo (reverb) is how it sounds. It's a lot better than when it initially came out, it was too reverby. They've tamed it somewhat.

I'll let others chime in on EQ but I don't believe you will really tame the reverb with the EQ as that's sort of inherent in their VSS solution.

My understanding is the front lineout does NOT pass the SXFI signal. It is only a PCM stereo signal for two fronts.


----------



## br3wsk1

Taking another shot at this.

Recently picked up Sound BlasterX G6, still in return window. If my budget were ~$600 for a headphone dac & amp, would the SBX G6 still be ideal or beat out by something else in terms of quality/perf for gaming?


----------



## royster

illram said:


> The echo (reverb) is how it sounds. It's a lot better than when it initially came out, it was too reverby. They've tamed it somewhat.
> 
> I'll let others chime in on EQ but I don't believe you will really tame the reverb with the EQ as that's sort of inherent in their VSS solution.
> 
> My understanding is the front lineout does NOT pass the SXFI signal. It is only a PCM stereo signal for two fronts.



Thank you, I figured the echo is part of what makes it sound spacious. I will spend more time with it as I only had about an hour to try it out yesterday. 

So how would you pass the SXFI signal to an external amp? Is it not possible? I guess I could do from the headphone out in the front but then that would be double amping.


----------



## illram (Nov 14, 2019)

royster said:


> Thank you, I figured the echo is part of what makes it sound spacious. I will spend more time with it as I only had about an hour to try it out yesterday.
> 
> So how would you pass the SXFI signal to an external amp? Is it not possible? I guess I could do from the headphone out in the front but then that would be double amping.


Yeah you have to double-amp. It's a head scratching omission for a desktop device. Perhaps given SXFi is still a relatively new product, they want to try and control the entire audio chain to ensure the sound is delivered as intended, or something. Who knows.

I remember in the early days of the X7 you could not pass the SBX out via the optical out, which they added later in the product's life cycle via a firmware update. Maybe they will do the same with this product?


----------



## royster (Nov 14, 2019)

illram said:


> Yeah you have to double-amp. It's a head scratching omission for a desktop device. Perhaps given SXFi is still a relatively new product, they want to try and control the entire audio chain to ensure the sound is delivered as intended, or something. Who knows.
> 
> I remember in the early days of the X7 you could not pass the SBX out via the optical out, which they added later in the product's life cycle via a firmware update. Maybe they will do the same with this product?



I see, that is unfortunate. I guess I will play around with the SXFI Air for awhile to see how I like it. I still have to try Waves NX. Maybe the G6 is the one to get since I can use any amp/dac with it and still get SBX, but Ive been hearing that Super X-Fi has much better rear cues. This is difficult.

Im wondering if I am limited by the 6xx soundstage for VSS. And if I will get more performance with another pair of headphones and something like a G6 or X3, but of course thats a much higher cost. Does VSS add enough processing that the inherent traits of the headphones make less of a difference?


----------



## illram (Nov 14, 2019)

royster said:


> I see, that is unfortunate. I guess I will play around with the SXFI Air for awhile to see how I like it. I still have to try Waves NX. Maybe the G6 is the one to get since I can use any amp/dac with it and still get SBX, but Ive been hearing that Super X-Fi has much better rear cues. This is difficult.
> 
> Im wondering if I am limited by the 6xx soundstage for VSS. And if I will get more performance with another pair of headphones and something like a G6 or X3, but of course thats a much higher cost. Does VSS add enough processing that the inherent traits of the headphones make less of a difference?



The SXFi rear (and front) cues are better than SBX, definitely. (I say front, because when I finally heard a real front cue, like the sound is really coming from a distance directly in front of me, it was as cool as the first time I heard a real rear cue.) I did not find Waves NX to be that great honestly. (Not better than SBX.) I think you need head tracking to really take advantage of Waves.

If you want to try another really good PC VSS solution try Out of Your Head, specifically the "gamer" preset (which is the only cheap one). You can try it free for 7 days. It's the only VSS I have heard on part with SXFi in terms of accurate rear cues. The UI is clunky and old looking but if you get it working it is really good. It uses in ear recordings from the Smyth A8, the god-tier of virtual surround sound. (Now only bested by the $4k A16...)

I have a 6xx but honestly have not touched it in years, so I can't really say how it handles VSS.


----------



## royster

illram said:


> The SXFi rear (and front) cues are better than SBX, definitely. (I say front, because when I finally heard a real front cue, like the sound is really coming from a distance directly in front of me, it was as cool as the first time I heard a real rear cue.) I did not find Waves NX to be that great honestly. (Not better than SBX.) I think you need head tracking to really take advantage of Waves.
> 
> If you want to try another really good PC VSS solution try Out of Your Head, specifically the "gamer" preset (which is the only cheap one). You can try it free for 7 days. It's the only VSS I have heard on part with SXFi in terms of accurate rear cues. The UI is clunky and old looking but if you get it working it is really good. It uses in ear recordings from the Smyth A8, the god-tier of virtual surround sound. (Now only bested by the $4k A16...)
> 
> I have a 6xx but honestly have not touched it in years, so I can't really say how it handles VSS.



Thank you, ill try the OOYH trial when I get home. Are you using sxfi air, sxfi amp or x3? What's your gaming headphone of choice nowadays?


----------



## illram (Nov 14, 2019)

royster said:


> Thank you, ill try the OOYH trial when I get home. Are you using sxfi air, sxfi amp or x3? What's your gaming headphone of choice nowadays?



I use SXFi (via the SXFi dongle) on PC, SBX (X7) on console, and Atmos on games that natively support it (e.g. Modern Warfare, Borderlands 3.) I rotate headphones but predominantly use the HD800S.

Of all my headphones though for the price vs. what you get I have a soft spot for the HE-560. Just a fantastic headphone for VSS and there are occasionally sales on it. The 400i is also in that category for me.

In the other direction, maybe the best price to performance ratio of all time? Koss Porta Pros. (Seriously.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I should hopefully be finishing up the LCD-1 review by Tuesday. I'm probably gonna buy Origin Access for $15 this month to play through Jedi Fallen Order and the new Need for Speed.

I really haven't gotten a lot of time to play games lately and been playing Valkyria Chronicles 4 sparingly throughout the past few weeks.

Between the LCD-1, and next the Schiit Fulla 3 and Hel, I don't have all that much free time, especially now that I work an extra day a week. It's really messed me up.


----------



## sanj

have anyone tried Boom 3D surround software?


----------



## AudioManNewb

Testing different 3D audio solutions SXFI, Nahimic, Waves NX, Windows Sonic, all on COD MW. Nahimic surprisingly had the best positional audio that also brought out the footsteps. SXFI is the most cinematic but muddy's up the sound. Waves NX is not that bad but not that great I like it for music more than gaming.


----------



## SierraMadre

sanj said:


> have anyone tried Boom 3D surround software?


Yes. I was very impressed with its projection of depth.


----------



## royster

AudioManNewb said:


> Testing different 3D audio solutions SXFI, Nahimic, Waves NX, Windows Sonic, all on COD MW. Nahimic surprisingly had the best positional audio that also brought out the footsteps. SXFI is the most cinematic but muddy's up the sound. Waves NX is not that bad but not that great I like it for music more than gaming.



Did you download Nahimic for gamers? Is it compatible on a custom pc because it has a list of compatible laptops. Are you using SXFI with the air headphones or with the x3/amp?


----------



## AudioManNewb

SXFI with the amp and many different headphones. Nahimic I used with the ROG armoury software bundled with the ROG Delta headset you can also get nahimic with EVGA Nu Audio. Nahimic really seemed to highlight direction and footsteps in the new CODMW. SXFI sounds wide and big and has good direction of gun shots and such but seemingly hard to hear footsteps sometimes.


----------



## TylersEclectic

@Mad Lust Envy I've been playing with this combo since Hel released...pretty stoked on the combo. I also use ZMF Verite opens/closeds and the Aeolus with the Schiit Hel... pretty impressed by this lil bit of kit! Fits a niche that was missing from my gaming desktop =) plus like in my quote it has my favorite current DAC chip!


Darthpool said:


> @Jason Stoddard The Hel fits in the LCD-GX case almost perfectly! Making this a very portable setup for gaming on the go! If you flip the Hel over the knob sits in the cable section and it is even more secure, but even as shown in the picture the case closes and secures the Hel in place =) EDIT: also in the pictures I have all accessories for both the LCD-GX (both cables and mic) and the Hel (Outlet plug, both USB cables, and the included mic/headphone split). Pretty cool synergy! both in color and transportability...also this has been my go to gaming combo since I received the Hel! Super stoked by this combo but especially the Hel, as it is a solution I've been waiting for! plus it has my current favorite DAC chip in it!! Plenty of power to run even my ZMF Verites (open and closed) and my ZMF Aeolus (which I am listening to right now through the Hel )
> 
> 
> 
> from top down perspective


----------



## br3wsk1

Any thoughts on the new JDS Labs Element II? Would it be a worth while upgrade over the SBX G6 for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 19, 2019)

I assume the Element doesn't have vss, while the G6 does, so I don't think they're comparable. I'm sure as an stereo only device, the Element is probably great. I don't like that it has less feature set than the Hel, and more than double the price. Power-wise they're similar too. I personally would take the Hel. I mean it's half the price, has mic input, same usb, analog inputs. It's more versatile. If the Element has better specs but it's inaudible... then that's $200 extra not really doing anything. Those $200 would go a long way to getting a much more powerful amplifier for even more versatility.

I'm still sick, and while the LCD-1 review is like 95% done, I haven't been able to play games on it much these past two weeks. Ugh. I'm trying to get some play fine to write in final thoughts and post a review.


----------



## br3wsk1

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I assume the Element doesn't have vss, while the G6 does, so I don't think they're comparable. I'm sure as an stereo only device, the Element is probably great. I don't like that it has less feature set than the Hel, and more than double the price. Power-wise they're similar too. I personally would take the Hel. I mean it's half the price, has mic input, same usb, analog inputs. It's more versatile. If the Element has better specs but it's inaudible... then that's $200 extra not really doing anything.
> 
> I'm still sick, and while the LCD-1 review is like 95% done, I haven't been able to play games on it much these past two weeks. Ugh. I'm trying to get some play fine to write in final thoughts and post a review.



Guessing you mean you'd take the Hel as a stereo only device and not over the G6 for gaming? Just clarifying, but looks like G6 it is for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

br3wsk1 said:


> Guessing you mean you'd take the Hel as a stereo only device and not over the G6 for gaming? Just clarifying, but looks like G6 it is for me.


Yes, sorry. Though personally, if you have the money for the Element, I'd take a Creative X7 instead. Personally speaking. I know not everyone is about VSS, but I am. I wish I hadn't given up my X7. I mean the G6 is fine, but the X7 was a fine piece of kit.


----------



## br3wsk1

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes, sorry. Though personally, if you have the money for the Element, I'd take a Creative X7 instead. Personally speaking. I know not everyone is about VSS, but I am. I wish I hadn't given up my X7. I mean the G6 is fine, but the X7 was a fine piece of kit.



Just out of curiosity, is there anything that beats the X7 with a vastly expanded budget or is it pretty much the king of gaming atm in terms of VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's the undisputed king atm. Still waiting on something like the X7 but with SXFI from Creative.


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's the undisputed king atm. Still waiting on something like the X7 but with SXFI from Creative.


VSS wise SXFI Amp or X7?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think once you acclimate to the SXFI presentation... I think it's the best VSS I've experienced, personally. Not everyone will like it. It's gonna be polarizing, in the way Dolby Headphone was more polarizing than say SBX or CMSS-3D. But I think the positional accuracy and spacing is the best.

As always, let your ears adjust. I didn't like it at first. By the end of all the testing, it was #1.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 13, 2021)

Sorry guys, between having one less day off a week to do my own things, being sick the past few weeks (and still recuperating), and having self imposed limits on how long to hold out on writing, this is as much as I could muster up with a bunch of things keeping me from writing at 100%. I hope it's still somewhat passable and legible, and my opinion comes across properly. I hate it when I have a bunch of smart things to say when I talk on the forums normally, but when it comes time to write the review, half of what I wanna say either escapes me, or I had already gave away with impressions. I'm never fully happy with my writing, but if I procrastinate long enough, it starts getting worse and worse, so there comes a point where I have to concede and just post the reviews.

Anyways, I hope this is good enough guys. If there are errors, I'll try and catch them and update as I go. You know.




----------
----------

*Audeze LCD-1

*

$399 as of November 2019

*Where to buy: Audeze

Review First Posted HERE.

Disclaimer: Update 7/7/2021: I've started my employment at Audeze as a Customer Service Rep. As this review was done prior to my employment, I will leave this review here and intact, but do not expect any future reviews for Audeze products. First look style articles, perhaps, but I can't in good conscience review a product for a company I work for.

A special thanks to Audeze for sending the LCD-1 out for review. I contacted Audeze directly though it seems they hadn't thought about the LCD-1 and its performance for gaming purposes, hence why I wasn't contacted first. Fair enough, though I do believe any headphone that performs well for general audiophile applications will tend to, at the very least, perform competently in the gaming landscape.

As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.*

I came upon the LCD-1 through Head-fi's main page, and was immediately interested in testing them out. A lightweight Audeze LCD planar, in a lower price bracket? Sign me up! I had to see what they could bring to the table. I still think the Audeze Mobius is one hell of a versatile offering, but not one that would satiate the general audiophile that prefers using their own gear, in a more...standard source-dac-amp-headphone setup. I don't see why the two couldn't co-exist, as they hit two very different demographics. One that just wants a swiss army knife approach in a headphone, and one that strictly abides to the rawest, bare essentials form of headphones.

The naming scheme may seem confusing at first, as the original LCD-1 was a completely different headphone that Audeze sold in very, VERY limited quantities. It wasn't until the LCD-2 that Audeze became a household name for audiophiles everywhere, and it's my assumption that they decided to bring in the LCD-1 name back as a way to separate their tiers of LCD headphones. I definitely do understand the logic behind this, if that is indeed the reason. Not that the LCD-1 should be regarded as the lowest tier of anything. It just happens to be the entry point to Audeze's LCD-line, is all.



*Build Quality*​
At first glance, and at a distance, the LCD-1 seems to share a lot of design traits as the Audeze Mobius. It's just that, some key design traits, and not a copy/paste form factor. I'm actually quite surprised Audeze didn't just reuse the Mobius's body and accommodate for differences like no longer needing the space for a battery, an internal dac/amp and other key Mobius-specific features. Instead, it seems the LCD-1's design stands out from the Mobius in some significant ways.



The LCD-1 looks like complete business. Not much in the way of design frills here. I can appreciate the utilitarian design. It's not a boring headphone, aesthetically, but it doesn't call attention to itself. From its modest form factor, to its simplistic black and silver color scheme, it certainly wouldn't stand out in a local electronics store. I certainly don't mind this at all. Not everything necessitates extravagance.


*Headband:

*

The LCD-1's headband, isn't as lengthy as the Mobius in terms on the top side, as the extension area is placed higher up and further away from the cups. The headband is also now fully covered in leather material, with plastic ends where the extension begins. The underside of the headband has a longer section of padding compared to the Mobius, which, while not as thick and plush as the material on the Mobius, extends further out, leading to a more ideal fit. It wraps around the head better, while with the Mobius, you can sort of 'feel' that the padding is directly on top of the head.

While the size adjustment is placed higher and closer to the headband, it is identical to the Mobius in terms of how it extends, the materials, and even the noise it makes as you change the size. Below the size adjustment section is the last bit of the headband space, which is essentially to long plastic bars. Near the area that meets the yokes is the collapsing mechanism, allowing the LCD-1 to collapse towards the headband, for much smaller footprint, and easier portability.

The yokes/forks look similar in design to the Mobius, but there are significant changes. The Mobius swivels inward while the LCD-1 swivels outward. This means if you were to place the headphones around your neck, the cups would face outward with the Mobius, while with the LCD-1, it is the pads facing outward instead. I personally prefer the Mobius approach, though I would think this was an intentional choice due to the LCD-1's collapsible nature, something the Mobius lacks. Not a big deal.


*Cups:

*

Moving on to the cups themselves, the differences between the Mobius and the LCD-1 are many. The oval shape of both headphones are nearly the same in size, though the LCD-1 is considerably thinner. Noting the obvious changes between the open-backed vs closed-backed natures of the headphones, the LCD-1's pad mounting mechanism is limited to just 4 pegs. A simpler design, which I find more appreciable. It's still somewhat proprietary, meaning pad swaps to other designs aren't going to be easy.



Moving back to the outer side of the cups is the typical 'A' slotted pattern that Audeze has been using of late. Very nice aesthetic. Behind the open slots is a grill which I almost question as appearing a bit closed. I wonder if the LCD-1 could benefit from a finer mesh grill instead, or none at all. Moving on to the bottom of the cups are the ambiguous 3.5mm inputs. Ambiguous as in regardless of which side of the cable you plug in, you'll always get the proper channel. Interesting.

While the first review unit I received had a minor issue with cable insertion feeling a bit loose, and it would slip out of its optimal insertion point and loose either the channel or some of its quality, Audeze assured me this would be fixed on final release, which I'm happy to say is completely true. The finalized unit I received upon personal request completely alleviated my previous complaints.

The 3.5mm inputs on both cups grip on to the plugs easily and hold them in place without any issues. The connection between the plug and jack have a satisfying click when fully inserted, and take a moderate pull to unplug. Thank you Audeze.


*Ear Pads:

*

Moving back to the pads, removing them exposes the magnetic bar array protected by a very fine mesh screen, which the Mobius lacked.  As for the pads themselves, they're noticeably smaller than the ones on the Mobius in both overall size, shape, and depth. Lambskin leather material is used, with a fine cloth screen covering the driver opening. I'll state plainly that I much prefer the pads on the Mobius. The walls were taller and the opening was larger. The LCD-1's ear opening is quite a bit small, so some people may have problems getting their ears to fit inside completely. It's a snug fit, for sure.


*Cables:*

The LCD-1 comes with a really nice, 6ft sleeved cable. The source side terminates into a 3.5mm plug with ample strain relief. Included is a snap on 6.35mm (1/4") adapter. On the headphone side is the dual 3.5mm plugs (also with ample strain relief) that go into the cups, and are reversible. This means you don't have to worry which one plugs into which cup. They will always output the correct side of audio. Pretty cool, though this means some other cables may not work. For instance, the cables I have for the Edition XX are 3.5mm but don't work with this headphone correctly.


*Final Build Impressions:

*

While I do see the pads being a point of contention due to its small size, I don't think the LCD-1 has anything else truly problematic in its build quality. Aside from the minor nitpicks, the plastics used seem quite durable, where I'm sure the LCD-1 could take a lot of day to day abuse. I wouldn't recommend stepping on the LCD-1, but I certainly believe you can toss them in a bag with wild abandon and not have to worry about a thing. Great build quality.



*Accessories*​
Outside of the necessary cable and 6.35mm (1/4") adapter, the LCD-1 comes with a Certificate of Authenticity, and zippered travel case as bonus goodies. The travel case is small, suggesting the headphone be placed inside in the collapsed position. The inside of the travel case has a netted area on the top side, which is where you'll place the cable. The bottom side where the headphone rests has a flap wrapped in velour material as a wall to separate the cups from one another to prevent scratches. All in all, a nice extra to have, and should protect the LCD-1 well enough from minor to medium impact shock.





*Comfort*​
Audeze headphones are somewhat hot and cold in terms of comfort. Most of the usual complaints would likely focus on the incredibly heavy weight, which is not a factor here with the LCD-1. Others would complain that the pads lead to a pressurized cabin feeling which I too have felt in other LCDs. Again, not so here. Then there's the new headband found on the bigger LCD siblings which I lauded as essentially the greatest headband design out of any headphone I have ever experienced. Super comfortable, as if you're not wearing a headband at all. Sadly, ALSO not found on the LCD-1. The LCD-1's comfort falls more under what one could expect from the Mobius than what one could expect from other LCD headphones. Give or take a few key differences.


*Weight:*

At 250g, the LCD-1 is Audeze's lightest full-sized headphone to date, and the difference is quite obvious. The closest comparison would've been the discontinued Sine DX which weighed 50g more. The LCD-1 feels light in almost all regards. You can easily wear it all day, weight being the least of anyone's concern. A huge step up from essentially any other Audeze headphone.


*Headband:*

The closest point of comparison would be the Mobius here. The LCD-1's lengthier area of padding makes it a more comfortable fit on top of head. Less likely to induce hotspotting. That being said, it's still a far cry from their bigger LCD headband design. That would've pushed headband comfort up quite a few levels. I truly hope Audeze finds a way to incorporate that style of headband for all of their full sized headphones in the future. Possible Mobius and LCD-1 successors included.


*Ear Pads:*

This is probably going to be the LCD-1's least favorable area in terms of comfort for the majority of people. The pads really should've stayed in the realm of Mobious pad dimensions. The hit in size makes it a bit harder to get bigger ears to fit inside comfortably, where perhaps some people may even have a more 'on-ear' level of fit which would be a travesty in terms of comfort and maybe even sound quality degradation. Personally, I can only speak for myself. My ears fit well enough, though it's definitely a tight fit. As for personal gripes here, you all probably known my disdain for leather pads in general, which doesn't help matters, though I can't knock Audeze here. That's personal preference. I certainly don't expect every headphone out there to have fabric covered pads.


*Clamp:*

I'd put the LCD-1's clamp as being moderate, but at a good level. Not loose, and not clampy. My personal taste would lead me to ask for just a little less, but that's really just personal taste, and not an issue with the LCD-1 whatsoever. It's in a good place here.


*Final Comfort Impressions:*

If I could score the LCD-1's comfort and give it a specific rating, I'd say it would fall under 'Very Good', personally. This could be great for those who don't mind leather pads and their ears fit well enough inside, and it could be just good for those who have large ears and have problems with the pad size. Weight is excellent, clamp is generally fine, and headband comfort is very good. Really, it all depends on how the pads fit with your ears.



*Noise Control*​
As an open-backed planarmagnetic, you can expect the LCD-1 on not being master class at handling external noises or keeping your audio from leaking out. This one is strictly for quiet, private room listening. It contradicts its portable nature, but alas, the only places I'd pack it up and lug it around to is between home, hotel, and a personal office at work. You'll definitely want at least one door closed between you and the next person.



*Sound*​
I didn't quite know what to expect from the LCD-1. Perhaps a repeat of the Mobius in its default preset? But then again, the Mobius is closed-back which alters the presentation in direct comparison to an open-backed headphone like the LCD-1. Yet, surely it would replicate a lot of what one comes to expect from Audeze. The big, upfront "wall of sound" Audeze headphones are known to have? To be frank, not quite.

While my Audeze experiences are quite limited, one could say Audeze has its own house sound. Yet the LCD-1 brings its own unique flavor that separates it from its siblings. In its own bubble, the LCD-1 brings enough of its own personality to keep it from being overshadowed by its older siblings, or similarly priced cousin in the Mobius.

While I've known Audeze to have a sort of thick, bold, warm, bigger than life presence to its sound, the LCD-1 is more in its own lane, not needing to immediately impress with a big, bombastic bass line, immediate vocal placement, or soft, ever pleasing upper registries. So what sets it apart? Let's see.



*Bass:*

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the bass on the LCD-1 will be the most debated aspect of the LCD-1's entire frequency chart. Is it bass light? Is it bassy? Does it have impact and energy? These are the kinds of questions that will have very different answers depending on who you ask. If you come from a warmer, more Harman Target focused balancing from other headphones, you'll likely find it to be just shy of bass neutral. If you come from dynamic headphones that are aimed at neutrality, and not really well extended, you may find the LCD-1 to have more than enough bass. In reality, the truth is somewhere in between.

While I've seen a particular graph and how the bass is portrayed in that graph (which I do more or less agree with), it being almost a completely flat line to the depths, but a just a level below the general 'line' of the rest of the higher frequencies from midrange and above, it doesn't really paint the whole picture.

The LCD-1's bass extends to the depths incredibly well, as one would expect from a well performing planar. However, extension and impact are two very different things. What this means is that the LCD-1 can hit the lowest notes with realistic presence and atmosphere. However, coming off warmer, slightly above neutral basslines, the body and energy is a little on the thinner side. The LCD-1 doesn't hit quite as hard as one would likely expect, meaning it isn't super impactful or attention seeking. It's not like the Grado White I previously reviewed, which had a non-existent lower bass extension, but pretty punchy mid bass and energy. The LCD-1 extends where the Grado doesn't dare tread, and the bass is just as tight, detailed, and textured, though not as punchy. The oomph, the guttural, primal impact isn't quite...for par. It's just slightly...SLIGHTLY less than what I'd like on that front.

That being said, it's not as if there isn't a good amount of impact in certain situations. While the LCD-1 isn't what I'd call my first choice for bassy music, because it doesn't excel in highlighting these genres, it DOES benefit quite a bit from tracks that are ample enough in their bass presence. Especially if the tracks are deep and ambience creating, rather than focusing on raw energy.

Make no mistake, if you like bassy music, they will sound fantastic on the LCD-1. It just isn't what I'd consider top choice in bringing that kind of music to life.

The LCD-1 prides itself on details, which extends to its bass. The nuances, the granularity and rawness of its texture, rather than the gravitas of it. I actually really enjoy hearing my electronic music from the LCD-1 because it allows me to pick up on the subtler, more discreet aspects of the bass, rather than just the mere, surface level presence. It allows a whole new take on all my favorite music, without giving up the enjoyment.

The raw warble of 25hz is displayed cleanly and clearly, solidifying how consistent Audeze is at bringing out headphones that extend as low as anyone could possibly need. The LCD-1 may not be a bass monster, but there is no aspect of bass that will be missing information. It is simply master class here.

In short, when it comes to the bass, I'd say that overall, it's bass neutral if only JUST. The slight, SLIGHT reservation of punch and energy is offset by its excellent low depths, and brilliant detail within all ranges of bass.


*Midrange To Treble:*

The LCD-1 has what can be described as a very natural, neutral, colorlessly toned midrange. The low midrange to central midrange is essentially ruler flat to my ears without central emphasis or recession, in either tonal qualities or forwardness. It simply sounds... accurate. Correct. As intended. I can see that if you come from warmer tonalities, the midrange may sound a little on the brighter side, but I honestly feel this is more in direct comparison to something richer, and not in the overall sense as to how something should sound. The LCD-1 really sounds like a tool made for mastering, for using as a baseline for which other headphones should be tuned from. Not to mean it sounds analytical and lifeless.

This extends beyond pure scientific purposes. The midrange in music is elegant, refined, detailed, and wonderfully present without overstepping its bounds, or sounding lost behind other aspects of the LCD-1's sound. It's coherency and conciseness lead it to becoming one incredible powerhouse for midrange performance. It treads the line on musicality and detail retrieval much better than it has any reason to be. It sounds like a high end headphone to me in this regard. How Audeze got it to sound this well tuned is laudable.

I don't think there will be many people who can sit there and complain about the general midrange performance on the LCD-1. They'd have to be actively looking for a push towards a more lush, organic presentation, or sharpened as a surgical instrument for pure detail analytics. For me, you get a fine balance between them with the LCD-1.

Its transition to the treble regions continues in excellence.

Running frequency tests, I could only hear a minor dip to my ears at just past 1.5khz, with perhaps its biggest peak being just past 3khz at around 3.5khz or so. The rest is highly detailed without it being overwhelming with a soft dip at around 7khz, to some real presence at 8khz up to 10khz. There's a slight fall after 10khz, but it stays present and extends well past it.

All in all, outside of the peakiness I hear at 3.5khz, I honestly can't say I found anything that sticks out like a sore thumb throughout the rest of the mid to treble range. It's all present and detailed, without glaring sharpness and over prominence.

What surprises me is that the LCD-1 eschews the typical upper midrange blunting that Audeze tends to impart to its LCD headphones. So in many regards, the LCD-1 may come out as a better balanced headphone than its bigger counterparts, with more immediate detail retrieval. I can safely say that from the few Audeze headphones I've tested and reviewed, the LCD-1 is absolutely the most balanced and neutral of the bunch.

So once again, unless you're looking for a specific coloration in the midrange and treble, I doubt anyone will find anything to truly fault with the LCD-1's rendition of these ranges. It is one of the best qualities the LCD-1 has, if not THE best quality.


*Soundstage and Imaging:*

The soundstage on the LCD-1 is probably one area I would've hoped to have been a little better to me, at the very least, in its raw stereo performance. That being said, I don't put much attention to soundstaging in terms of a true stereo source, no surround processing added. I simply don't care how big soundstages are normally, because surround processors I tend to use when gaming already expands the soundstage enough for my needs. (Gaming is generally the only time I truly pay attention to the size of the soundscape.) That's not to say I don't enjoy headphones with inherently large soundstages. I definitely do, but it's not directly tied to my overall musical enjoyment. Larger inherent soundstaging does correlate to better performance out of those surround processors, but it isn't the final word on whether a headphone can articulate a virtualized sense of space. I'd say soundstage depth is more important than sheer size.

As such, the LCD-1's soundstage, while not in the same 'wall of sound' type of presentation found in something like the LCD2, isn't what I'd consider big. It's rather average without stand out traits to differ it from the norm. While again, this isn't a bad thing, I didn't find it to have particularly excellent depth either, which isn't something I've come to expect from planarmagnetics. It's all rather average to my ears.

Imaging fares a bit better, as the detail and definition of objects is potent on the LCD-1. There's no haze or fuzziness to be found in object location and visualization, making it excellent in this regard, though the lack of a large area of space and depth keeps it from being a top recommendation in terms of these aspects of its sound.


*Clarity:*

The LCD-1's clarity is what I'd consider high level. Its fantastically neutral, linear balance, paired with it's great sense of detail, nimble speed, texture of its bass and midrange, and definition, make the LCD-1 one of the best headphones I've heard anywhere near its price range. It didn't even need to sacrifice musicality in order to achieve this either, making one of the best headphones I'd recommend for those that want high levels of detail without compromising much in the way of immersion and overall enjoyment.


*Sound Signature:*

The LCD-1's tonality is decidedly neutral, with a linear curve from bass, to mids, to treble. The bass is linear and fully extended down low, though it's a hair shy in body and impact. Midrange is well balanced and placed right in the neutral line in terms of either forwardness or tonal temperature. Treble is sparkly and extended without it being piercing or overly enthusiastic. There is no veil to speak of, and while it isn't what I'd call smooth or fatigue-free, it dances a fine line between detailed and just enough restraint to keep it from turning the LCD-1 into a bright headphone. Those who would call the LCD-1 bright are likely just used to darker, warmer, smoother headphones. You want bright, get a Grado. This ain't that.


*Amplification*​
Audeze made this with the specific intent on being incredibly easy to drive off even a smartphone. It's highly sensitive, and doesn't take much to push to a high volume. That being said, its neutral tonality allows it to inherit some of the signature from your source and amplifier. Having tested the LCD-1 with the petite Schiit Fulla 2 and 3 against my Schiit Magni 3, I did notice a repeated outcome of the LCD-1 sounding more fleshed out and natural out of the Magni 3 over the Fulla's internal amplifier. It sounded more true to life out of the Magni 3, leading me to believe the LCD-1 can improve with better amplification, or at least have some synergy. You ask any audiophile, they'll always tell you any and every headphone scales up, no matter how easy they are to drive. However, it's not essential. The LCD-1 sounded fantastic out of the tiny Fulla alone.


*Gaming*​
While I wasn't all that impressed with how soundstage and imaging mixed in stereo applications, I was more than content with the LCD-1's prowess in virtual surround. It's not the absolute best in the long list of headphones I've used for gaming, but it certainly does well enough here to give a full recommendation for all gaming necessities. It may not be the most ideal headphone if soundstage is that is truly important to you, but for those who use virtual surround processing, the LCD-1 is quite capable, with accurate virtual speaker placement, staging, and definition of objects in that virtual space.

Its excellent depth and extension in bass also makes it quite immersive, though not on the level of something more pronounced in mid bass impact and raw energy. I wouldn't worry much about how'd it fare for fun. It's really good in this regard.

For analyzing and extracting information out of competitive gaming, the LCD-1 is a high level headphone for this use, due to its balanced, detailed sound, with crisp upper end, without crossing the threshold between being detailed, and being murder on the ears.


*Personal Recommendation*​
*Media:*

Really, there isn't much the LCD-1 can't do. In terms of what to use them for, the neutral signature, high details, and deep extension allow the LCD-1 to work well for any manner of things you throw at it, though it may not specialize in heavy bass necessities, which I would least likely recommend it for. If only because if you place a lot of importance to those genres, you'll want a bit more body, energy, and presence than the LCD-1 provides. Other than that, really, go ahead and enjoy them for basically anything, and everything else. The LCD-1 is one hell of a do-it-all kind of headphone.


*Practicality:*

As far as practical uses, while the LCD-1 is portable, its open backed design really hamper it from being something recommended for public areas. Outside of home use, which it will exceedingly well in, I recommend using the LCD-1 for private office or hotel use. Perhaps you can take it out to a park bench, but prepare to hear everything else around you along with your source.


*Who Is It For?*

The LCD-1 to me would me a perfect offset to a darker, smoother, warmer headphone. Whereas one may like a specific flavor or coloration in their main headphone, the LCD-1's neutrality and well behaved demeanor allow it to highlight things that your other headphone wouldn't. So if you were into an LCD-2 or HD650/6XX with their richer, thicker, smooth presentations... the LCD-1 would back that up with extra attention to detail and nuances that a warmer headphone may not be tuned to highlight as proficiently.

The LCD-1 can absolutely work as the only headphone you can ever need, with the understanding that the energetically bass influenced genres wouldn't have the same dynamics and impact to them. If you're not really into that sort of music, the LCD-1 truly excels in all other areas. It's less for immersion building, and more for proficient showcasing.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
Likes:

Accuracy, Balancing, Tonality
Bass Extension
Midrange
Clarity, Details, Speed, Texture
Lightweight
Sound quality well above expectations

Dislikes:

Slight lack of bass energy, body, impact
Soundstage size/depth is merely average to my ears
Small earpad openings
Proprietary pad mounting makes it harder to pad swap
Reversible cables may make it harder to find regular alternatives, would've preferred a typical L/R cable orientation



*Final Impressions*​
The LCD-1 is special. The tonal balancing is spot on, the extension on both ends are excellent, and the level of performance is undeniably impressive overall. I think outside of the soundstaging not being its best trait, the ear pads being a bit questionable in size, there is little about the LCD-1 that people will find to fault. In some ways, there is something about the LCD-1 that I like over the bigger LCD offerings. The LCD-1 seems more... mature in the way it handles it sound. The bigger LCDs seem more imposing, more direct, more immediate. Like they have something to prove. The LCD-1 has no qualms about staying in its own lane, offering a sublime, musical, yet precise experience. And I love it for that. Audeze, you've done it again.


----------



## royster

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think once you acclimate to the SXFI presentation... I think it's the best VSS I've experienced, personally. Not everyone will like it. It's gonna be polarizing, in the way Dolby Headphone was more polarizing than say SBX or CMSS-3D. But I think the positional accuracy and spacing is the best.
> 
> As always, let your ears adjust. I didn't like it at first. By the end of all the testing, it was #1.




Did you EQ the SXFI Air at all (with SXFI turned ON)? Or did you like the SXFI sound stock? Also did you ever compare 5.1 to 7.1 or just used 7.1?


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## Mad Lust Envy

I never EQ. I leave this as they come. I turn off enhancements, at most.


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## Snikibiki (Nov 19, 2019)

Which amp should I buy for k712 pro? (not expensive, but with enough power) As dac Ill use dragonfly black. Ill use them for gaming and trap music.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Magni 3 would have plenty of power and I think the slight warmth would synergize with the K712 Pro.


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## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> Which amp should I buy for k712 pro? (not expensive, but with enough power) As dac Ill use dragonfly black. Ill use them for gaming and trap music.


Budget?
As a DragonFly Black is USB, your bypassing the features of your sound card and I'm assuming that's OK?
Check out the Schiit Magni and JDS Atom amps.


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## Playstation (Nov 26, 2019)

Would someone link the thread where the posters talk about modding/adjusting their ear pads with some type of liner to make them raised.

Also. I might try swapping the ear pads on the CAL's I just got. It's not that they're not deep enough. The circumference and possibly the material makes them a little uncomfortable. It would probably be easier to find some to just glue on, than to find the correct size that tucks in into the back. However, these are a few that tuck, that I might consider trying.

I decided to order some replacement pads from Plantronics. Hoping they might fit the CAL's considering the Plantronics Rigs and the CAL's are somewhat around the same size imo. The pads, plus tax and shipping, was altogether around $6. If I have to use adhesive I will. Also, I wonder if the new pads with change how the CAL's sound, considering they are of a totally different material.


----------



## Johnnytran

Hi all, first of all I’d like to thank the OP for such an informative post. I’ve read through a lot of this thread over the past month and learnt a lot.

I recently purchased the G6 after reading all the positive comments regarding it's virtual surround. I'm not sure whether I have it setup correctly, with the below settings I can't hear footsteps in Modern Warfare as loud as I could using my Astro Mixamp TR on the PS4. I'm using the A40 headset but looking into some audiophile headphones next. I did try the AD700X but returned those cause they just didn't work for me compared to the A40/mixamp combo in this game. I lost count the amount of times people ran up to me without me hearing a peep. I tried running a flat EQ in the mixamp and used my older mixamp with similar results. Maybe the soundstage is too large and footsteps sound too far away/softer than I’m used to.

My G6 settings:

Equaliser is set to Gaming (I think this on by default cause I haven't changed it)

Dolby set to full? (the circle is all grey)

Surround on & set to 60 - I had it set to 100 to begin with but read some comments to lower it to 60 or below?

Crystalizer, bass, smart vol, dialog+ all off

Setup - Headphones - Output mode is audio effects & 7.1

At the bottom I see the below icons highlighted - headphone mode, gaming, SBX, dolby audio when my PS4 is on (it's connected via optical) and headphones.

Any help is appreciated. I love this device so far, it sounds a little different than the mixamp which I like. Things sound clearer and I think the positional audio is a lot better as well. Only issue I'm finding is I can't soundwhore like I could with my mixamp so I'm at a disadvantage now vs others that can hear me across the map. I'd like to be able to hear them more otherwise I'll have to return it 

I haven’t tried fiddling with the EQ cause I have no idea what I’m doing. I did have custom EQ’s loaded into the Mixamp TR which is probably why footsteps were so loud - I could pinpoint enemies from far away but they have to be pretty close now unless I’m not moving/making any noise.

Has anyone made any tweaks to get the footstep sounds louder in Modern Warfare and can share their settings?


----------



## illram

br3wsk1 said:


> Just out of curiosity, is there anything that beats the X7 with a vastly expanded budget or is it pretty much the king of gaming atm in terms of VSS?



Define "vastly expanded"? You can't beat the Smyth A16. But it's $4,000...


Johnnytran said:


> Hi all, first of all I’d like to thank the OP for such an informative post. I’ve read through a lot of this thread over the past month and learnt a lot.
> 
> I recently purchased the G6 after reading all the positive comments regarding it's virtual surround. I'm not sure whether I have it setup correctly, with the below settings I can't hear footsteps in Modern Warfare as loud as I could using my Astro Mixamp TR on the PS4. I'm using the A40 headset but looking into some audiophile headphones next. I did try the AD700X but returned those cause they just didn't work for me compared to the A40/mixamp combo in this game. I lost count the amount of times people ran up to me without me hearing a peep. I tried running a flat EQ in the mixamp and used my older mixamp with similar results. Maybe the soundstage is too large and footsteps sound too far away/softer than I’m used to.
> 
> ...



Try turning crystalizer on, setting a flat EQ, and set surround to 100. If crystalizer does not do it for you try a slight boost between 2k and 8k in EQ. But always keep surround at max.

I have never tried the A40's as headphones but I imagine even "cheap" good cans would be an improvement in staging and imaging. E.g. PC37X, HE-4XX, HD598. The AD700X is usually well regarded in the FPS positional audio department, maybe also try that again with the G6 vs. the mixamp.


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## Xspearo (Nov 19, 2019)

Hi, I had the same issue with setting the surround options so high on certain headphones things would sound so far and spacious that it made it hard to hear footsteps especially with something like the AD700X that already has a big sound stage, So I dialed mine back to like 10 or even 5. For eq I came across these(down below) but i dailed back on some but every headphone/headset will be different you just have to tweak it to your likely. Also in modern warfare make sure the audio settings in game is on "studio reference" or the one that has flat EQ line.


This is website where I found eq:
https://forums.pubg.com/topic/78432-sound-blaster-z-pubg-sound-settings/

Equalizer Settings:
31:  -4dB
62:  -3dB
125: 2dB
250: 4dB
500: 6dB
1k:   5dB
2k: 10dB
4k: 10dB
8k:   9dB
16k: 9dB


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## xxxkinel

Johnny tran
Could you please tell us what settings you was using with your astro mixam pro tr
Like what presets you was using
Atm i cant seem to find a good preset
Especially when kill streaks are out i cant hear no footsteps at all
Thank 
All advise welcome if you can help with a good preset for mixamp pro tr  with call of duty modern warfare  2019
also if any one knows what frequency footsteps are in hz


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## Johnnytran (Nov 21, 2019)

illram said:


> Define "vastly expanded"? You can't beat the Smyth A16. But it's $4,000...
> 
> 
> Try turning crystalizer on, setting a flat EQ, and set surround to 100. If crystalizer does not do it for you try a slight boost between 2k and 8k in EQ. But always keep surround at max.
> ...



Thank you. I switched to a flat EQ on the G6 and have set the boost high sound setting in modern warfare. I found this one to be the best for me but I think once I start tweaking EQ settings I should have the flat EQ setting in game so I know what exactly is being altered. At the moment I can hear footsteps but they're much softer than with the Mixamp TR. I don't think I ever had anyone get close to me without me hearing them, even when I was in a gunfight. Last night playing with the G6 I had two occasions while during a shootout someone was able to sprint within meters of me and kill me without me hearing them.

*edit*

Keeping a flat EQ but boosting the 2 and 4Hz by 2-3dB sounds ok but still not at the level of the mixamp. Maybe the mixamp’s EQ settings are more advanced? I’ve had a look in there and don’t really know how to copy it as it’s a different layout



Xspearo said:


> Hi, I had the same issue with setting the surround options so high on certain headphones things would sound so far and spacious that it made it hard to hear footsteps especially with something like the AD700X that already has a big sound stage, So I dialed mine back to like 10 or even 5. For eq I came across these(down below) but i dailed back on some but every headphone/headset will be different you just have to tweak it to your likely. Also in modern warfare make sure the audio settings in game is on "studio reference" or the one that has flat EQ line.
> 
> 
> This is website where I found eq:
> ...



Thank you for these settings. I will give them a go tonight with the various in-game sound settings, hopefully I find something which works for me 

*edit*

This EQ doesn’t work on this game, it sounded very odd, I can’t explain it but the footsteps were very inaudible



xxxkinel said:


> Johnny tran
> Could you please tell us what settings you was using with your astro mixam pro tr
> Like what presets you was using
> Atm i cant seem to find a good preset
> ...



Hello, I don't have the exact settings on hand but if you google zalia's astro presets you'll be able to find a lot of different ones. The one I was using was his specific modern warfare one. Hope it works for you 
The sounds of killstreaks are too loud in that game, i'm not sure there's any preset that can lower their volume while still being able to hear footsteps.


----------



## Xspearo

Johnnytran said:


> Thank you for these settings. I will give them a go tonight with the various in-game sound settings, hopefully I find something which works for me
> 
> *edit*
> 
> This EQ doesn’t work on this game, it sounded very odd, I can’t explain it but the footsteps were very inaudible



Not sure if your PC settings, are you in 7.1?
Make sure you also go into sound control panel on your PC and you go through configuration setting and it's in 7.1 and all speakers have a check mark. Also in sound control panel go to properties, advance and its 32 bit, 96 hz.
In sound blaster me personally I have all effects off but surround and that's on 10 but each person and headphones/headset is different. Dolby is left on normal.

Another thing you can do is clip game play of a situation and loop it to keep playing while you mess with EQ at the same time.


 

This is what I kind of have but still tweaking it. I see a lot of people say about 1k to 8k is roughly where footsteps are. Let me know if/what you come up with.


----------



## xxxkinel

Johnny tran
I have the zalias mw tournament i got it a few days ago
Do you remember what ingame sound eq settings you was using with it  eg 
Studio refrence      home thearte     dynamic thearte   boost  high boost    low booste
Also did you have dolby headphones turned on \ off on mixamp
Soorry for all the questions 
thank you for your help


----------



## Johnnytran (Nov 23, 2019)

Xspearo said:


> Not sure if your PC settings, are you in 7.1?
> Make sure you also go into sound control panel on your PC and you go through configuration setting and it's in 7.1 and all speakers have a check mark. Also in sound control panel go to properties, advance and its 32 bit, 96 hz.
> In sound blaster me personally I have all effects off but surround and that's on 10 but each person and headphones/headset is different. Dolby is left on normal.
> 
> ...



I had something similar to yours but ended up dropping those ranges to 2-4dB. I use the boost high setting in-game so things sounded a little too harsh. When using the "studio reference" flat eq test in-game, footsteps sounded very soft. I will edit this post with what I have tonight when I get home.
That's a great idea about looping the clip. What I did when testing was jump into a private game and blindly run around the map while I fiddled around with the EQ. I couldn't see where I was going because I use the same monitor for PC and gaming! I might just record a 10 minute clip of me running around on the PS4 and have it play in the background while I mess around with the EQ tonight.

*edit*

Here's what I think sounds ok with the boost high settings in-game. I've also tried dropping the 31-62Hz to -12dB which *may* have made footsteps more audible.

https://imgur.com/a/NtfmC11



xxxkinel said:


> Johnny tran
> I have the zalias mw tournament i got it a few days ago
> Do you remember what ingame sound eq settings you was using with it  eg
> Studio refrence      home thearte     dynamic thearte   boost  high boost    low booste
> ...



I use the boost high setting in-game with dolby on. I think the boost low makes footsteps louder but also explosions etc get deeper and you won't be able to hear people moving around if there's too much going on


----------



## SierraMadre

Snikibiki said:


> Which amp should I buy for k712 pro? (not expensive, but with enough power) As dac Ill use dragonfly black. Ill use them for gaming and trap music.


You probably should avoid using the dragonfly with an amp. Better to use it by itself or not at all. 
If you are intent on getting an amp then either use your motherboard dac, get a separate dac with dedicated line-out to go with the new amp, or get an all-in-one dac/amp. If you use the dragon-fly with a separate amp you will be double amping which isn’t such a good idea unless you are very careful with your equipment and settings.

Read this for further explanation

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/double-amping.726659/

If I were you, I’d just get a Creative Sound Blaster G6 or Sound blaster X3 and see how you find them They both have Line-out (and optical out) so you can add an amp later if you want to but they are both good stand-alone dac/amp combos in their own right with more than enough juice to power the K712 Pro. I use the K7XX (which is quite similar to the K712 Pro) with the G6 and at other times with the  X3 and they work very well together.


----------



## xxxkinel

Thank you Johnny tran  for your help


----------



## greyforest

hi all
 Looking for some suggestions here

Currently using ae-5 optical out to feed external dac and amp with play mix to digital out 

Tried möbius and was very impressed by wavesnx virtual surroundings, however the windows version of wavesnx takes 10% of the cpu load all the time(i9 9900k) 

So is there any other solutions(Hardware dsp) that have better virtual surroundings than wavesnx ? I tried hesuvi don’t think its as good as wavesnx


----------



## SierraMadre

greyforest said:


> hi all
> Looking for some suggestions here
> 
> Currently using ae-5 optical out to feed external dac and amp with play mix to digital out
> ...


Sennheiser GSX1000, SXFI AMP and SXFI X3 are probably your best options. Whether they are as good as / better than Waves will be down to personal preference.


----------



## Thenewbie76

I need some help. Should I get the GSX1000 or soundblaster g6? I plan on using it as a dac for my PC with the JDS Labs atom as a amplifier. Its for my uni setup nxt yr ( I know its a long time ). However blackfriday is right around the corner. I am more inclined towards the g6 because Amirm from audiosciencereview gave the DAC part of the G6 a quite good rating whereas he has not reviewed the GSX1000.


----------



## greyforest

SierraMadre said:


> Sennheiser GSX1000, SXFI AMP and SXFI X3 are probably your best options. Whether they are as good as / better than Waves will be down to personal preference.



thanks for your advice, i am very interested in sxfi however the service is not available in my region, the x3 sold here does not include sxfi features.


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 25, 2019)

Question: Sound blaster G6 or E5 for competitive FPS gaming with AKG K702, AD900x, and HE-4XX? Price is not an issue, they're are equally priced here, no mic will be used.

In terms of imaging and positional accuracy, do they both implement the same VSS engine and features like SBX Pro Studio? Both have same output power? Is there a difference other than bluetooth?

Should i be looking at any newer Soundblaster products with SXFI, binaural technologies?


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think once you acclimate to the SXFI presentation... I think it's the best VSS I've experienced, personally. Not everyone will like it. It's gonna be polarizing, in the way Dolby Headphone was more polarizing than say SBX or CMSS-3D. But I think the positional accuracy and spacing is the best.
> 
> As always, let your ears adjust. I didn't like it at first. By the end of all the testing, it was #1.


Yea so far the sxfi has had the best VSS. Do you think the 400i and the SXFI amp would be a good pairing for FPS CODMW to be exact gaming/music?


----------



## ronfifer

Some reviews claim that SXFI is not good for competitive gaming, while it expands the soundstage, it blurs imaging and distorts the sense of direction of sounds. Any evidence that counters these reviews? I don't yet understand the SXFI hype for FPS games.


----------



## Nemmera

ronfifer said:


> Some reviews claim that SXFI is not good for competitive gaming, while it expands the soundstage, it blurs imaging and distorts the sense of direction of sounds. Any evidence that counters these reviews? I don't yet understand the SXFI hype for FPS games.



The thing with competitive FPS gaming is that a huge soundstage is less important than accurate imaging and the ability to detect approaching enemies. I know I've written it before in this thread, but that's a reason I can't really use my K712pro for PUBG. The soundstage is HUGE (even in pure Stereo), but it makes the sound very "left/right" in it's presentation - which makes for worse imaging. Maybe some VSS tricks may be able to counteract this, but so far I've found pure Stereo to be preferrable for FPS.

Good VSS is awesome for immersive single player experiences, movies/series etc though!


----------



## greyforest

ronfifer said:


> Some reviews claim that SXFI is not good for competitive gaming, while it expands the soundstage, it blurs imaging and distorts the sense of direction of sounds. Any evidence that counters these reviews? I don't yet understand the SXFI hype for FPS games.


I think the claim is legit, I haven’t tried sxfi but i have tried wavesnx möbius. While the vss makes the immersive experience much better than any other solutions it does decreases resolution of the sound by quite a margin. Besides that many game is developed with only stereo sound processing, i compared same movie with 2.1 and 7.1 output throughout ae-5’s digital mix vss for headphone. Drastically different performance, 7.1 source is much better. In short 7.1 source transform into better vss effects. 

Competitive gamer utilize sound different from usual players, they don’t need realistic sound, but only ‘sound clues’, therefore the muddier the mix is the worse it is for competitive plays.


----------



## ronfifer

In this post, MLE is quoted to say SXFI is best for positional accuracy. So far the reviews claim the opposite: inflated soundstage but blurred imaging and distorted sense of direction when SXFI is turned on. Any fps gamers who experienced SXFI here?


----------



## halcyon

Has anybody tried the Nahimic 3D sound and compared it to Sennheiser GSX or SoundBlaster G6 / X7 ? Esp, in terms of positional accuracy and esp. front/back localization, which is the weak point of almost all 3D HRTFs.


----------



## halcyon

greyforest said:


> I think the claim is legit, I haven’t tried sxfi but i have tried wavesnx möbius. While the vss makes the immersive experience much better than any other solutions it does decreases resolution of the sound by quite a margin. Besides that many game is developed with only stereo sound processing, i compared same movie with 2.1 and 7.1 output throughout ae-5’s digital mix vss for headphone. Drastically different performance, 7.1 source is much better. In short 7.1 source transform into better vss effects.
> 
> Competitive gamer utilize sound different from usual players, they don’t need realistic sound, but only ‘sound clues’, therefore the muddier the mix is the worse it is for competitive plays.



I had Mobius and for me the wavesNX was not nearly as good as SBX Pro or Sennheiser GXS for 5.1/7.1 real multichannel input to Stereo VSS 3D positional accuracy (in FPS games).

That's why I sold mine (and other reasons, incl. crap support from Audeze).


----------



## Nemmera

halcyon said:


> I had Mobius and for me the wavesNX was not nearly as good as SBX Pro or Sennheiser GXS for 5.1/7.1 real multichannel input to Stereo VSS 3D positional accuracy (in FPS games).
> 
> That's why I sold mine (and other reasons, incl. crap support from Audeze).



I still find the Mobius to be insanely good for positional accuracy in pure stereo, beats any combination of DT770/GSP600/K712pro/HD700 connected to NuAudio/GSX1000/XonarEssence. Sure, there is an audible hiss when they are quiet. They get hot. They push on the ears slightly (even with gel pads). Don't get me wrong, I find both GSX and SBX to be better at VSS... Just talking positional audio and imaging for FPS here. 

No idea how good/bad their support is. Their software/driver design leaves something to be desired, but I'm guessing they have a limited team for it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> In this post, MLE is quoted to say SXFI is best for positional accuracy. So far the reviews claim the opposite: inflated soundstage but blurred imaging and distorted sense of direction when SXFI is turned on. Any fps gamers who experienced SXFI here?



Even if details are blurred, being able to tell something is coming from 2 o clock or 5 o clock, etc, is much more important than how defined those sounds are. What good is all the resolution in the world if i can't tell something is 5 o clock behind me just from sound alone? For me, being able to place it in an obvious direction trumps absolutely everything else. I don't care if it's not as clean. Hence why SXFI, DH to me are better than SBX and CMSS-3D



This is why I say things like, I'll take a cheap pair of KSC75s with Dolby Headphone through an Asus Xonar U3, over an HD800 in stereo from a $5000 dac/amp.

The moment I know something/ANYTHING is behind me in a direction, I can just look there and see it. While with the best headphones ever in stereo, I'd have to take a moment to understand if something is in front or behind me and THEN move towards that sound. Doesn't matter how clear it is. I could care less in comparison.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

So is there a Creative G3 around the corner.  There is a coming soon console specific device on the Creative websites, codenamed 'Project Auris'.  The iOS SoundBlaster Command app has just got an update to receive G3 support and in the following video there is a device connected to a PS4 and on the back, around 39 seconds in, it looks like it has the G3 name near the top?



Perhaps another SXFI device, with access to equaliser settings etc (and maybe voice/game sound balance? for PS4??


----------



## tmaxx123

WhiteHartMart said:


> So is there a Creative G3 around the corner.  There is a coming soon console specific device on the Creative websites, codenamed 'Project Auris'.  The iOS SoundBlaster Command app has just got an update to receive G3 support and in the following video there is a device connected to a PS4 and on the back, around 39 seconds in, it looks like it has the G3 name near the top?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps another SXFI device, with access to equaliser settings etc (and maybe voice/game sound balance? for PS4??




 Looks like our x7 with sparkos are still king of the hill then. G3 looks puny haha


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2019)

The other day,  I told a Creative rep that my community is really interested in an X7 successor that has SXFI. Fingers crossed.


----------



## ronfifer

Reading the marketing material on the X3 official page, they promote it as a cinematic device to create immersion in movies, Creative does not try to promote SXFI as a feature that gives an edge to competitive gamers, like they did when promoting the G6, though they do mention immersion in gaming for the SXFI. Nothing about directional accuracy.

So which one shall i buy now to pair with my Ad900x and K702: G6 with dolby Headphone and Prostudio or X3 with SXFI?


----------



## halcyon

Nemmera said:


> I still find the Mobius to be insanely good for positional accuracy in pure stereo, beats any combination of DT770/GSP600/K712pro/HD700 connected to NuAudio/GSX1000/XonarEssence. Sure, there is an audible hiss when they are quiet. They get hot. They push on the ears slightly (even with gel pads). Don't get me wrong, I find both GSX and SBX to be better at VSS... Just talking positional audio and imaging for FPS here.
> 
> No idea how good/bad their support is. Their software/driver design leaves something to be desired, but I'm guessing they have a limited team for it.



Positional accuracy for stereo is pretty much meaningless, imho, unless one is palying left-to-right scrolling 2D games. Stereo only contains left/right position and IF game engine calculates it, distance and reverbation.

The whole point of VSS is to get the discrete 7.1 sound probably via HRTF into a surround-like experience, where front/back localization is retained. Hopefully in the future, this will include audio-tracing the soundwaves in the game geometry.

That is the *ONLY* way to retain proper positional accuracy, beyond mere left/right panning.

Of course, if the game-engine (Like Overwatch) has it's bult in VSS (Dolby Atmos), then a stereo only headset/soundcard will do fine, but it is still Discret multi-channel via VSS algo (game engine provide) into a stereo headphone.

But in the end, we are comparing the actual algorithms (WavesNX, Dolby Atmos, SBX Pro, Sennheiser GSX algo, Nahimic 3D, etc) against each other, regardless of the headphone itself (yes, the headphone does affect this, but it can only decrease the quality of the positioning that the VSS algo gives out).

And running VSS from a stereo input (2-channel discrete) makes no sense for game positional accuracy, it just mucks everything up.


----------



## halcyon

tmaxx123 said:


> Looks like our x7 with sparkos are still king of the hill then. G3 looks puny haha



Sold my X7 and my Sparkos. GSX is my current go-to, it's better (imho) for positional accuracy AND it has lower audio latency compared to X7 (you actually hear the sounds earlier with GSX than with X7). Yes, the headphone amplifier is limited and there is limited set of settings on the soundcard itself, so yes, I hope that Creative comes out with a better SXFI Amp that has a better headphone Amp, better positional accuracy, better manual tuning of the algo and lower latency.

Hope spring eternal :-D


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The other day,  I told a Creative rep that my community is really interested in an X7 successor that has SXFI. Fingers crossed.



I wish - the G3 is just a glorified USB dongle so not getting hopes up about that one - Creative call it 'console focused' - just looks a dumbed down device to me.

Hoping for a decent X7 Black Friday deal if I'm honest.  Have the G6 on PS4 but fed up of the volume so sensitive on first start up and also having to move the device to an ancient laptop of mine every time I want to change the settings.  Lack of a Mac or mobile app on that one a real let down imho.

I'd happily switch to a X7 just for the chance to change some settings from my mobile on the fly.  If there was the chance of a X7 replacement imminently though, I'd wait but reckon it'll be last next year if at all imho.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

WhiteHartMart said:


> I wish - the G3 is just a glorified USB dongle so not getting hopes up about that one - Creative call it 'console focused' - just looks a dumbed down device to me.
> 
> Hoping for a decent X7 Black Friday deal if I'm honest.  Have the G6 on PS4 but fed up of the volume so sensitive on first start up and also having to move the device to an ancient laptop of mine every time I want to change the settings.  Lack of a Mac or mobile app on that one a real let down imho.
> 
> I'd happily switch to a X7 just for the chance to change some settings from my mobile on the fly.  If there was the chance of a X7 replacement imminently though, I'd wait but reckon it'll be last next year if at all imho.


I'm kinda wishing I never let go of the X7... I mean, the G6 is fine, but the X7 was less of ahassle to do these things.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm kinda wishing I never let go of the X7... I mean, the G6 is fine, but the X7 was less of ahassle to do these things.



Snap - I got rid of my X7 a while back and regretting it also!


----------



## illram

ronfifer said:


> In this post, MLE is quoted to say SXFI is best for positional accuracy. So far the reviews claim the opposite: inflated soundstage but blurred imaging and distorted sense of direction when SXFI is turned on. Any fps gamers who experienced SXFI here?


Not sure what reviews you're reading but I agree with MLE. To my ears the SXFI is the most accurate VSS around, assuming you have headphones on the list and use its calibration correctly. I have never heard "blurred imaging" or distorted sense of direction, quite the opposite. This is in FPS games, e.g. Call  of Duty Blackout, where audio is everything.


----------



## Nemmera

halcyon said:


> Positional accuracy for stereo is pretty much meaningless, imho, unless one is palying left-to-right scrolling 2D games. Stereo only contains left/right position and IF game engine calculates it, distance and reverbation.
> 
> The whole point of VSS is to get the discrete 7.1 sound probably via HRTF into a surround-like experience, where front/back localization is retained. Hopefully in the future, this will include audio-tracing the soundwaves in the game geometry.
> 
> ...



Good points I guess. While PUBG ofc has some kind of audio processing (it outputs 5.1 if given the chance for instance) I find that trying to add a layer of VSS ontop of it wreaks havoc on the sound image and makes discerning anything a mess. Running normal stereo (from a HW/Driver point of view, which is what I'm referring to - sorry if I oversimplify things) is the only way I've been able to make it really clear. I play with HRTF turned off ingame and I can easily hear how far away people are,where they are and predict where they will peek next. 

Where the Mobius is suffering is when there are a lot of different sound sources at the same time. In a 1v1 situation I can hear exactly where my opponent is, in a furball it becomes way more difficult. I guess a good VSS solution could help paint a better soundscape, but I have yet to find one that both does that and still let's me hear footsteps etc accurately. If someone has tips for a really good configuration I'd love to try it out., but I have the feeling it's the engine/sound mix that is to blame.

Again, all of this is mainly one game which I spend far too much time in atm. Maybe my HD700s would be an absolute godsend for all other titles where I listen for sounds on different frequencies. I do miss games with really good sound... (BF3 comes to mind).


----------



## Vader2k

WhiteHartMart said:


> So is there a Creative G3 around the corner.  There is a coming soon console specific device on the Creative websites, codenamed 'Project Auris'.  The iOS SoundBlaster Command app has just got an update to receive G3 support and in the following video there is a device connected to a PS4 and on the back, around 39 seconds in, it looks like it has the G3 name near the top?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps another SXFI device, with access to equaliser settings etc (and maybe voice/game sound balance? for PS4??




Although a bit soft/blurry, I agree it looks like it says "Creative G3"


----------



## Fegefeuer

A X7 successor with SXFI would indeed be very interesting. Also a potential G7 with SXFI of course. Still wondering why the AE-7 and AE-9 don't support Super X-Fi.

What kind of SBX do these cards use anyway? Is it an updated version?


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 25, 2019)

illram said:


> Not sure what reviews you're reading but I agree with MLE. To my ears the SXFI is the most accurate VSS around, assuming you have headphones on the list and use its calibration correctly. I have never heard "blurred imaging" or distorted sense of direction, quite the opposite. This is in FPS games, e.g. Call  of Duty Blackout, where audio is everything.


Personal HRTF is very much a factor. SXFI seems to work for some people but not others, not to mention that there are plenty of reports of the face mapping efficacy being erratic, I.e. people taking multiple, should-be-successful mappings under the same conditions  and the results still differing markedly. All the glowing initial impression and reports tended to be from PRIRs measured by Creative using in-ear mics not the head mapping method which resulted in a much more polarising “it’s amazing” vs “it’s crap” range of critical opinion.


----------



## SierraMadre

WhiteHartMart said:


> So is there a Creative G3 around the corner.  There is a coming soon console specific device on the Creative websites, codenamed 'Project Auris'.  The iOS SoundBlaster Command app has just got an update to receive G3 support and in the following video there is a device connected to a PS4 and on the back, around 39 seconds in, it looks like it has the G3 name near the top?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps another SXFI device, with access to equaliser settings etc (and maybe voice/game sound balance? for PS4??



Wouldn’t put much stock in that considering no existing console can effectively output discrete multichannel via USB (for subsequent decoding and conversion by SXFI) and there has been no mention of SXFI over optical.


----------



## ronfifer

If you are in a Mega Electronics store right now, and you are a competitive FPS gamer with AD900x, K702, and HE4XX, but you don't have a proper amp/dac, would you buy the G6 or the X3 or the Senn GSX 1000 to maximize directional accuracy?


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm kinda wishing I never let go of the X7... I mean, the G6 is fine, but the X7 was less of ahassle to do these things.


What headphones do you main with your SXFI amp?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

SierraMadre said:


> Wouldn’t put much stock in that considering no existing console can effectively output discrete multichannel via USB (for subsequent decoding and conversion by SXFI) and there has been no mention of SXFI over optical.



Yea - agree. If there was one thing to feed back to Creative, its that they just don't have one product that really hits the spot for console gamers apart from the X7 (G6 is close but not ability to change settings from an app makes it less console friendly and has no game/chat mix).  Surely it can't be too hard for something like the X3 to have had a optical input also.

Posted about the G3 but a 'USB dongle' doesn't interest me in the slightest.  Disappointing as hoped Creative would hit the spot with the next release.  Seems the choice now is sell my G6 and replace with a X7 or hope that a X7 revamp (with SXFI also) is around the corner?


----------



## SierraMadre

WhiteHartMart said:


> Yea - agree. If there was one thing to feed back to Creative, its that they just don't have one product that really hits the spot for console gamers apart from the X7 (G6 is close but not ability to change settings from an app makes it less console friendly and has no game/chat mix).  Surely it can't be too hard for something like the X3 to have had a optical input also.
> 
> Posted about the G3 but a 'USB dongle' doesn't interest me in the slightest.  Disappointing as hoped Creative would hit the spot with the next release.  Seems the choice now is sell my G6 and replace with a X7 or hope that a X7 revamp (with SXFI also) is around the corner?


 Is it PS you are using? And which settings in particular would you want to be able to adjust on the fly?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

SierraMadre said:


> Is it PS you are using? And which settings in particular would you want to be able to adjust on the fly?



Yea - PS4 Pro.  I'll admit its a bit of a non-essential/not deal breaking thing, but I do switch between headphones from time to time and find I need to change the Surround setting and EQ setting a little depending on which set I'm using.  Initial set up was the biggest pain - getting the levels changed for volumes/voice etc which had to be constantly switched between PS4 and a clapped out laptop I have 

Just feels like Creative could blend a couple of devices/features to make it perfect - ie - 'the console targetted G6'  could have had Bluetooth for app connection, while the X3 has the app connection but then loses the optical input to make console use less attractive.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 26, 2019)

WhiteHartMart said:


> Yea - PS4 Pro.  I'll admit its a bit of a non-essential/not deal breaking thing, but I do switch between headphones from time to time and find I need to change the Surround setting and EQ setting a little depending on which set I'm using.  Initial set up was the biggest pain - getting the levels changed for volumes/voice etc which had to be constantly switched between PS4 and a clapped out laptop I have
> 
> Just feels like Creative could blend a couple of devices/features to make it perfect - ie - 'the console targetted G6'  could have had Bluetooth for app connection, while the X3 has the app connection but then loses the optical input to make console use less attractive.


I have a slightly convoluted but potentially viable alternative that could save you a bit of money and the hassle of selling your G6 and getting another X7, while also giving you a further surround option  and backup dac/amp.

Pair your G6 with a Steelseries Gamedac, using the G6 as a pre-dac to apply SBX features and the Steelseries as the output dac/amp. The Gamedac is not as powerful as the G6 but it’s much more versatile for on-the-fly adjustments and is a fine little unit in its own right that would give you most of the in-line flexibility you desire.

You’d still be stuck with whatever level of SBX surround intensity configured through the PC Soundblaster app but the Gamedac would allow for game/chat mix, in-line EQ adjustments (presets AND individually adjustable 10 band equaliser), bass boost toggle (IIRC, don’t have it to hand at the moment) and also DTS headphone X v2 to try out as an alternative VSS solution in case you haven’t already tried it. I find SBX to be better for overall fidelity but DTS to beat it for projection of depth. For single player and co-op, I tend to try a game in DTS first and switch to SBX instead if there is too much of a compromise to fidelity. If it’s competitive, I’ll stick with SBX.
Just to clarify, by “in-line”, I mean at the hardware user interface level, via the controls and display on the unit itself, no messing about with Bluetooth mobile apps.

This “SBX but with game/chat and in-line EQ” path would look like this:

PS Pro > Gamedac via USB for chat function.

PS Pro > G6 via optical (G6 to be powered by external USB, not PS Pro)

SBX > Gamedac via G6’s optical out

The below link has some embedded animated graphics that give a good idea of the in-line features and UI:

https://steelseries.com/gaming-accessories/gamedac


----------



## ricardovix

Guys, I'm a owner of a Creative X-FI Titanium HD and just bought a Sennheiser GSX 1000.

I've received it today, but the knob isn't working, it doesn't increase or decrease the volume. Does anyone seen this problem before?

Beside that, it sounds like crap. The sound is muffled and messy, the shots on Call of Duty Modern Warfare are terrible when compared to my X-FI Titanium HD.

I read the manual, selected GSX Main Audio as default and GSX Communication as communication default. I've also set the GSX Main Audio as 7.1 surround and selected all speakers, just like the manual explains.

If I'm gaming on 7.1, as I said, the sound is muffled and messy, but when I set to 2.0, the sound is OK.

My Titanium HD is 5.1 and the sound is just perfect, far superior the gsx 1000. I've only tested with Call of Duty Modern Warfare, but tonight I'll test with other games, just in case.

Do you think it's a problem with my gsx 1000 or the titanium hd is really much better?

Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I'm a owner of a Creative X-FI Titanium HD and just bought a Sennheiser GSX 1000.
> I've received it today, but the knob isn't working, it doesn't increase or decrease the volume. Does anyone seen this problem before?
> Beside that, it sounds like crap. The sound is muffled and messy, the shots on Call of Duty Modern Warfare are terrible when compared to my X-FI Titanium HD.
> I read the manual, selected GSX Main Audio as default and GSX Communication as communication default. I've also set the GSX Main Audio as 7.1 surround and selected all speakers, just like the manual explains.
> ...



Return the GSX1000 and buy an external headphone amplifier and connect it to the Ti-HD's (Titanium-HD) line-output (RCA) jacks.
Plug headphones into external head amp.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

SierraMadre said:


> I have a slightly convoluted but potentially viable alternative that could save you a bit of money and the hassle of selling your G6 and getting another X7, while also giving you a further surround option  and backup dac/amp.
> 
> Pair your G6 with a Steelseries Gamedac, using the G6 as a pre-dac to apply SBX features and the Steelseries as the output dac/amp. The Gamedac is not as powerful as the G6 but it’s much more versatile for on-the-fly adjustments and is a fine little unit in its own right that would give you most of the in-line flexibility you desire.
> 
> ...



Thanks for suggestion - will give that consideration.  In the UK at the moment the GameDac is £130, I can get the X7 for £195 so not a huge difference (especially if I can sell the G6 I guess).  Will have a think!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AudioManNewb said:


> What headphones do you main with your SXFI amp?


I didn't use an SXFI amp. It was the Creative Air headset that had built in SXFI.


----------



## mindbomb

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I'm a owner of a Creative X-FI Titanium HD and just bought a Sennheiser GSX 1000.
> 
> I've received it today, but the knob isn't working, it doesn't increase or decrease the volume. Does anyone seen this problem before?
> 
> Beside that, it sounds like crap. The sound is muffled and messy, the shots on Call of Duty Modern Warfare are terrible when compared to my X-FI Titanium HD.



Make sure the headphone cable is plugged in all the way. Use a headphone extension cable if you just can't get it fully in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So happy I found my PortaPro wireless, behind some papers in my glove compartment. YAAAAS


----------



## ronfifer

I received my first AKG K702 today, only for the purpose of competitive FPS gaming.I play on an MSI GT62VR laptop with on-board Realtek HD chip; no external soundcard or AMP/DAC stack, yet. I plugged my AKG K702 directly into the headphone jack of my onboard audio chip and it got way too loud at 65% Windows volume. 

1. Do you believe I still need to get an amp/dac for other sound improvements? Like improving separation, detail retrieval, and sound-stage? Is it worth it?

2. As of now I have no virtual surround sound solution to downmix into my K702 and play in surround sound settings. Do you recommend a software that can do that? (Razer Surround stopped selling licenses to non-owners)


----------



## Thenewbie76

Guys this is gonna sound really dumb but how do I use the G6 or even the GSX 1000 as a DAC only with surround sound software and connect it to an external amp? I have a THX 789 and plan on using it with mainly a JDS Labs atom for my UNI setup.


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 28, 2019)

Thenewbie76 said:


> Guys this is gonna sound really dumb but how do I use the G6 or even the GSX 1000 as a DAC only with surround sound software and connect it to an external amp? I have a THX 789 and plan on using it with mainly a JDS Labs atom for my UNI setup.


Connect the G6 to PC, set 7.1  channel config and “apply headphone virtualisation to line-out”, turn on SBX surround and any other required features. Connect the lineout to the amp. That’s it.

Not sure about the GSX1000 as dunno if the line-out is passthrough only or whether GSX can be applied to it.


----------



## Thenewbie76

SierraMadre said:


> Connect the G6 to PC, set 7.1  channel config and “apply headphone virtualisation to line-out”, turn on SBX surround and any other required features. Connect the lineout to the amp. That’s it.
> 
> Not sure about the GSX1000, as dunno if the line-out is passthrough only or whether GSX can be applied to it.


So I need to have a line out cable to 2 Male RCA cable right? The PC then sends the signal to the G6 the line out sends the signal to the Amp.

Edit= Any good cable brands to get it from?


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 28, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> I received my first AKG K702 today, only for the purpose of competitive FPS gaming.I play on an MSI GT62VR laptop with on-board Realtek HD chip; no external soundcard or AMP/DAC stack, yet. I plugged my AKG K702 directly into the headphone jack of my onboard audio chip and it got way too loud at 65% Windows volume.
> 
> 1. Do you believe I still need to get an amp/dac for other sound improvements? Like improving separation, detail retrieval, and sound-stage? Is it worth it?
> 
> 2. As of now I have no virtual surround sound solution to downmix into my K702 and play in surround sound settings. Do you recommend a software that can do that? (Razer Surround stopped selling licenses to non-owners)


You’d be best off getting a G6 or something like that or you will be limited to virtual surround pre-programmed into the game by its devs and not all games have that while software-only solutions applied to stereo-only onboard sound chips are meh.


----------



## SierraMadre

Thenewbie76 said:


> So I need to have a line out cable to 2 Male RCA cable right? The PC then sends the signal to the G6 the line out sends the signal to the Amp.
> 
> Edit= Any good cable brands to get it from?


PC to G6 via usb, standard 3.5mm lineout to RCA split going to the amp. Wouldn’t worry about cable brands at short distances, anything with half-decent shielding will do. I wouldn’t pay more than 20 bucks for it.


----------



## Thenewbie76

Thx for the reply boss


----------



## halcyon

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I'm a owner of a Creative X-FI Titanium HD and just bought a Sennheiser GSX 1000.
> 
> I've received it today, but the knob isn't working, it doesn't increase or decrease the volume. Does anyone seen this problem before?



Something is wrong if the volume control is not working. Can't debug from here, hard to say what it is.

As for sounding muffled, my GSX1200 did not sound muffled compared to SoundBlaster X7, when using the following settings:






That is:
- Audio : 7.1 (has to be enabled also in Windows Sounds Control Panel)
-  Equalizer: Movie (story) or eSport if you find the Movie not to your liking
-  Headset: no sidetone
-  Environment: No "plus" signs
-  Sound Focus: NO "arrows" (i.e. no front or back speaker increase)

What headphones are you using?

What is your Windows Volume set to?


----------



## SierraMadre

halcyon said:


> Something is wrong if the volume control is not working. Can't debug from here, hard to say what it is.
> 
> As for sounding muffled, my GSX1200 did not sound muffled compared to SoundBlaster X7, when using the following settings:
> 
> ...


His sig mentions HD598.

Re GSX surround, I don’t have extensive experience with GSX1000 beyond limited testing of a friend’s. I own devices for SBX, SXFI, Waves NX, Atmos for headphone, DTS X, pretty much all the usual suspects. How would you say GSX compares in terms of projecting depth (center channel etc.) and the effect of virtualisation on fidelity?


----------



## ronfifer

SierraMadre said:


> You’d be best off getting a G6 or something like that or you will be limited to virtual surround pre-programmed into the game by its devs and not all games have that while software-only solutions applied to stereo-only onboard sound chips are meh.


All the games that i play regularly are designed to output surround sound so that's not an issue. Any thoughts?



> I received my first AKG K702 today, only for the purpose of competitive FPS gaming.I play on an MSI GT62VR laptop with on-board Realtek HD chip; no external soundcard or AMP/DAC stack, yet. I plugged my AKG K702 directly into the headphone jack of my onboard audio chip and it got way too loud at 65% Windows volume.
> Do you believe I still need to get an amp/dac for other sound improvements? Like improving separation, detail retrieval, and sound-stage? Is it worth it?


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 28, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> All the games that i play regularly are designed to output surround sound so that's not an issue. Any thoughts?


But you also said you had no means of down-mixing into VSS which would be the whole point of a employing a separate VSS solution. . .

If all the games you play already have in-game / pre-programmed VSS solutions which you are happy with then adding a further software solution would be equivalent to double binauralisation which could end up being detrimental.

It would be best to choose one or the other for VSS. Either stick with the game’s own solution  and don’t worry about software VSS, or, get a hardware based solution such as a G6 for what is usually superior virtualisation.


----------



## ronfifer

But doesn't the G6 employ double binauralisation too by using its own propriety pro-studio SBX DSP instead of passing through Dolby or DTS etc...?


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 28, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> But doesn't the G6 employ double binauralisation too by using its own propriety pro-studio SBX DSP instead of passing through Dolby or DTS etc...?


No. You appear to be confusing the likes of Dolby headphone and DTS headphone (which are binauralisation algorithms applied to compatible discrete multichannel source content for output as 2 channel VSS) with Dolby digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 which are the vanilla, ‘yet-to-be-binauralised’ discrete multichannel source forms meant for surround speaker setups.

Applying SBX to convert dolby digital (optical) or multichannel PCM (USB) into 2 channel VSS for output to headphones is where the binauralisation comes into play. G6 / SBX can’t process DTS btw.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey would you guys buy the SHP9500 for 86$ CDN. I currently have the dt990's but would like to be able to connect to console also. Or would that be a big downgrade? This is only for gaming an occasional watching a tv episode or movie.

thanks


----------



## SierraMadre

stavros.m said:


> Hey would you guys buy the SHP9500 for 86$ CDN. I currently have the dt990's but would like to be able to connect to console also. Or would that be a big downgrade? This is only for gaming an occasional watching a tv episode or movie.
> 
> thanks


The SHP9500 are a good pair of cans but why not just spend a bit more and get a dac/amp instead that can power your DT990s from console? The Creative G6 would be fine for that.


----------



## halcyon (Nov 29, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> His sig mentions HD598.
> 
> Re GSX surround, I don’t have extensive experience with GSX1000 beyond limited testing of a friend’s. I own devices for SBX, SXFI, Waves NX, Atmos for headphone, DTS X, pretty much all the usual suspects. How would you say GSX compares in terms of projecting depth (center channel etc.) and the effect of virtualisation on fidelity?



I have only compared:

X-Fi Elite (CMMS-3D), Audeze Mobius (WavesNX), SoundBlaster X7 (SBX Pro Studio) and GSX 1200 (Sennheiser Algo).

For me, on my 3D FPS 5.1/7.1 discrete channel output into VSS headphone tests, the most accurate in terms of 360 degree horizontal plane positioning (direction, not distance) is GSX 1200, then followed by CSS3D/SBX Pro. I never liked/used WavesNX enough to do dedicated 1to1 comparison with others, but based on my head, my testing and the settings I used, it was below in directional accuracy.

Depth, size, size of sound stage, etc. those are to me more of a "feeling" thing as there is NO way the algo can properly/accurately calculate that out of the discrete 7.1 signals, when they don't themselves have enough (discrete) depth/sizing information. It's all guess work, reverb, echo and some phase shifting.

To me, in 3D FPS shooter, the accuracy of direction is what matters. Of coures, the sound can't be muffled, without bass or losing audio streams (i.e. can't render all 7.1. discrete sounds properly). Those have be done properly too.

Still, in the end, the difference amongst the aforementioned algos is NOT that huge (imho, I'm not a competitive gamer) and I think that one can learn to use any of them (with proper settings) and learn each one's pros/cons.

I have no direct head-2-head comparison experience with DTS X Headphone or Dolby Atmos. Only the software simulated (Windows driver pack) versions and I find them artificial, boomey, echoey and lacking in directional accuracy (YMMV).


----------



## SierraMadre (Nov 30, 2019)

halcyon said:


> I have only compared:
> 
> X-Fi Elite (CMMS-3D), Audeze Mobius (WavesNX), SoundBlaster X7 (SBX Pro Studio) and GSX 1200 (Sennheiser Algo).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insight. I find the usual suspects to all do directional accuracy and imaging pretty well, give or take, so centre channel ‘out-of-my-head’ depth is the key differentiator for me. So far I’ve found Waves NX, SXFI, Boom 3D and some of Darrin Fong’s OOYH room presets to be the most depth-effective affordable options for my ears as the Smyth realiser is out of my price range.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> The SHP9500 are a good pair of cans but why not just spend a bit more and get a dac/amp instead that can power your DT990s from console? The Creative G6 would be fine for that.


 thanks for the response. i Was looking at something that might work with xbox one x and stadia. My only issue with the G6 and it is probably just my opinion is my thoughts are that sxfi will be future and why buy an older system

thanks


----------



## halcyon

SierraMadre said:


> Thanks for your insight. I find the usual suspects to all do directional accuracy and imaging pretty well, give or take, so centre channel ‘out-of-my-head’ depth is the key differentiator for me. So far I’ve found Waves NX, SXFI, Boom 3D and some of Darrin Fong’s OOYH room presets to be the most effective affordable options for my ears as the Smyth realiser is out of my price range.



For me, in 3D FPS games, the most difficult thing for VSS algos to do is front-to-back localization.

If you are blind and use d DirectSound3D positional source at same virtual distance from you chanding randomly 360 degrees around you, then it can be really difficult to tell if the sound is directly in front of you or directly behind your back. This with no visual cues (i.e. doing eyes closed).


----------



## SierraMadre

stavros.m said:


> thanks for the response. i Was looking at something that might work with xbox one x and stadia. My only issue with the G6 and it is probably just my opinion is my thoughts are that sxfi will be future and why buy an older system
> 
> thanks


Ah, if it’s Xbox, the chat function might be an issue with the G6 as Xbox can’t do any kind of audio over USB (although there are workarounds apparently’ and your DT990s are probably too high impedance to be effectively driven by something like the Astro Mixamp TRor one of the Turtle Beach dac/amps.

I’d take the Fidelio X2s over the SHP9500 though. The successor Fidelio X3 is coming next year so I’d imagine retailers will be looking to shift unsold inventory via heavy discounts over the course of this weekend if you haven’t checked already.


----------



## SierraMadre

halcyon said:


> For me, in 3D FPS games, the most difficult thing for VSS algos to do is front-to-back localization.
> 
> If you are blind and use d DirectSound3D positional source at same virtual distance from you chanding randomly 360 degrees around you, then it can be really difficult to tell if the sound is directly in front of you or directly behind your back. This with no visual cues (i.e. doing eyes closed).


Yeah front vs back seems to be the holy grail for a lot of people but it’s something I’ve never personally had problems differentiating with any of the VSS algorithms I’ve tried.


----------



## Steven Seagal

I really love almost everything about my K702 I can't go back to my old headphones like DT 990 or He-400.
The sound signature, the soundstage, the clear, analytical, airy sound fits me very well.
The one thing I'm missing is sound depth (K702 has a very oval soundstage) when using VSS like GSX, SBX or DTS:X.

Am I right, that the only headphones which provide a better depth while maintaining the same sound and soundstage are HD800s and K812?
What about trading (some) of the width for depth but still with the same soundsignature?
Would be a DT 1990 or a T1.2 a better fit?


----------



## kayan

Well, I have a wifey-lemma (wife-dilemma) as of last night.

I currently have a pair of Audeze Mobius that I've been using for gaming. She apparently was talking to me while I was playing some MW yesterday, and I didn't reply at all. Short story is she told me to find some headphones to game with so that I can hear her while I use them. I sold off all my headphone gear about 1-1.5 years ago and used a Corsair Void Pro and sometimes my Mobius. I ditched the Void Pro because it, frankly, sucked for everything (except a cheap wireless set). I will use these almost exclusively on PC. 

I'm debating between the following cans:

Philips Fidelio X2HR
Shure 1840
Audioquest Nighthawk Carbon
AKG 712 Pro

I have had a K702 65th anniversary (that I purchased off of MLE way back in the day), and a Fidelio x2, and I had a Shure 1540. All 3 were comfy, but the original Nighthawk was possibly comfier. The Shure that I had for a while was nice and sounded great, but my ears touched the inside of the cups. 

Any opinions? I'd like to purchase today or tomorrow. But I'd also need an AMP/DAC as I don't have those anymore either. I need suggestions, quickly.


----------



## ronfifer

Steven Seagal said:


> I really love almost everything about my K702 I can't go back to my old headphones like DT 990 or He-400.
> The sound signature, the soundstage, the clear, analytical, airy sound fits me very well.
> The one thing I'm missing is sound depth (K702 has a very oval soundstage) when using VSS like GSX, SBX or DTS:X.



I got mine last week and enjoying it very much in competitive fps. I hear new sounds for the first time in games i have been playing for 2+ years. May i please know how did you try the GSX, SBX and DTS:X VSS? Using external sound cards or using software? I'm particularly interested in how you tried DTS:X with your K702. Thank you and sorry i dont have an answer to your question.


----------



## headphonesonly

kayan said:


> Well, I have a wifey-lemma (wife-dilemma) as of last night.
> 
> I currently have a pair of Audeze Mobius that I've been using for gaming. She apparently was talking to me while I was playing some MW yesterday, and I didn't reply at all. Short story is she told me to find some headphones to game with so that I can hear her while I use them. I sold off all my headphone gear about 1-1.5 years ago and used a Corsair Void Pro and sometimes my Mobius. I ditched the Void Pro because it, frankly, sucked for everything (except a cheap wireless set). I will use these almost exclusively on PC.
> 
> ...


Monoprice m570 + Liquid Spark/Modi 3

This setup has performed really well for me. I know the x2 are $100 rn and that’s a really good deal. No where near as clear and accurate as the m570 but for the price you can’t go wrong. Dt880 is a cheaper alternative to the m570. No detachable cable though. Not a fan of the k712. K702 non annies or the K7XX from drop.com are good choices if you want Akg again. The K7xx are actually based off of the k702 annies. The Hifiman 4xx is also a good choice, I’d actually pick these over the Akg. If you want something more high end they maybe the Focal Elex. Haven’t tried these personally but have heard very good things about them for both its music and gaming performance. ZMF Aeolus is another headphone I have my eyes set on.


----------



## Yethal (Dec 2, 2019)

kayan said:


> Well, I have a wifey-lemma (wife-dilemma) as of last night.
> 
> I currently have a pair of Audeze Mobius that I've been using for gaming. She apparently was talking to me while I was playing some MW yesterday, and I didn't reply at all. Short story is she told me to find some headphones to game with so that I can hear her while I use them. I sold off all my headphone gear about 1-1.5 years ago and used a Corsair Void Pro and sometimes my Mobius. I ditched the Void Pro because it, frankly, sucked for everything (except a cheap wireless set). I will use these almost exclusively on PC.
> 
> ...


As a former SRH1840 owner, get Fidelio X2. It accepts VModa BoomPro mic and is more comfortable to use over long periods of time.


----------



## dub Beatz

Anyone here have experience with the HD700s? I'm about to pull the trigger on some. I currently have the Beyerdynamic MMX300 which are very similar to my old DT770 pro 80s. I love the fact that they're fun and also pretty damn accurate for competitive gaming. Would the HD700s disappoint me because of their neutrality?

Also, I use the creative omni 5.1 external soundcard which claims to have a 600ohm headphone amp. Should I purchase a different DAC with vss? (I'm a huge VSS fan and always have been). I could get a separate amp as well if you guys think I need it.


----------



## Yethal

dub Beatz said:


> Anyone here have experience with the HD700s? I'm about to pull the trigger on some. I currently have the Beyerdynamic MMX300 which are very similar to my old DT770 pro 80s. I love the fact that they're fun and also pretty damn accurate for competitive gaming. Would the HD700s disappoint me because of their neutrality?
> 
> Also, I use the creative omni 5.1 external soundcard which claims to have a 600ohm headphone amp. Should I purchase a different DAC with vss? (I'm a huge VSS fan and always have been). I could get a separate amp as well if you guys think I need it.


HD700 aren't neutral, they're as bright as the sun.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yethal said:


> HD700 aren't neutral, they're as bright as the sun.



Interesting. Are they "fun" like the beyerdynamics? Cinematic games like Battlefield are a blast to play with them, and they're still good enough to give me an advantage when I need to hear footsteps etc. I'm also pretty sensitive to treble, should I steer clear?


----------



## Yethal

dub Beatz said:


> Interesting. Are they "fun" like the beyerdynamics? Cinematic games like Battlefield are a blast to play with them, and they're still good enough to give me an advantage when I need to hear footsteps etc. I'm also pretty sensitive to treble, should I steer clear?


No, they're bright headphones. You may want to try ModHouseAudio's HD700 modkit if you're too sensitive to treble and still want to own HD700.


----------



## dub Beatz

Yethal said:


> No, they're bright headphones. You may want to try ModHouseAudio's HD700 modkit if you're too sensitive to treble and still want to own HD700.



From what you're saying then it sounds like the HD700s aren't for me. Any other fun but accurate headphones you can think of that are an upgrade to the dt770 pro 80s?


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> Interesting. Are they "fun" like the beyerdynamics? Cinematic games like Battlefield are a blast to play with them, and they're still good enough to give me an advantage when I need to hear footsteps etc. I'm also pretty sensitive to treble, should I steer clear?


For competitive gaming I’d go for dt880 instead unless you find a pair of hd700 for under $200


----------



## kayan

Pulled the trigger on the x2HR. Any good amp suggestions? I want to keep them fun, but still give me access to the footstep bonus


----------



## dub Beatz

headphonesonly said:


> For competitive gaming I’d go for dt880 instead unless you find a pair of hd700 for under $200



I was gonna buy the HD700s for $300 which seemed good to me. As for the DT880, they seem like more of a sidegrade than an upgrade. I suppose this will be the case for most headphones I want to purchase to replace my MMX 300s. I've seen people recommend the X2HR, which seem like they're fun but also good for gaming?


----------



## Yethal

dub Beatz said:


> From what you're saying then it sounds like the HD700s aren't for me. Any other fun but accurate headphones you can think of that are an upgrade to the dt770 pro 80s?


higher end beyers


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> I was gonna buy the HD700s for $300 which seemed good to me. As for the DT880, they seem like more of a sidegrade than an upgrade. I suppose this will be the case for most headphones I want to purchase to replace my MMX 300s. I've seen people recommend the X2HR, which seem like they're fun but also good for gaming?


X2 would be just like the Mmx 300. The m570 are a good upgrade and are also $300. It’s got a slight vshaped sound signature with good bass extension and very detailed treble. Some of the best I’ve used for gaming.


----------



## kayan

dub Beatz said:


> I was gonna buy the HD700s for $300 which seemed good to me. As for the DT880, they seem like more of a sidegrade than an upgrade. I suppose this will be the case for most headphones I want to purchase to replace my MMX 300s. I've seen people recommend the X2HR, which seem like they're fun but also good for gaming?



When I was demo’ing headphones a few years ago I had the chance to try the HD700. They were way, way too bright for my tastes. I sold all my gear a year ago (give or take). I didn’t love the dt770 either. The x2HR are on sale for 100 from Amazon right now. I liked the original x2 well enough so grabbed the x2HR (and another can).


----------



## dub Beatz

headphonesonly said:


> X2 would be just like the Mmx 300. The m570 are a good upgrade and are also $300. It’s got a slight vshaped sound signature with good bass extension and very detailed treble. Some of the best I’ve used for gaming.



Wow, monoprice headphones I had no idea these were a thing. And planar magnetics too? How hard are they to drive?
Also, do you have any experience with Massdrop's offerings? They have some really good deals going on right now, so if you recommend any of them I'd probably pull the trigger.


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> Wow, monoprice headphones I had no idea these were a thing. And planar magnetics too? How hard are they to drive?
> Also, do you have any experience with Massdrop's offerings? They have some really good deals going on right now, so if you recommend any of them I'd probably pull the trigger.


They’re pretty efficient. They run off my phone pretty well


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> Wow, monoprice headphones I had no idea these were a thing. And planar magnetics too? How hard are they to drive?
> Also, do you have any experience with Massdrop's offerings? They have some really good deals going on right now, so if you recommend any of them I'd probably pull the trigger.


The 4XX is also a good choice but has rolled off bass which is disappointing considering that it’s also a planar headphone. But for $130 it’s a steal. A pad swap would help with the bass though.


----------



## dub Beatz

headphonesonly said:


> The 4XX is also a good choice but has rolled off bass which is disappointing considering that it’s also a planar headphone. But for $130 it’s a steal. A pad swap would help with the bass though.



What kind of pads would you recommend? I was actually looking at buying these earlier. It was always my dream to own a pair of HD650s, but with how much I like my headphones to be colorful I'm not sure I'd enjoy the HD6xx, even at their insanely low price. The 4XX offer a little bit of fun don't they?


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> What kind of pads would you recommend? I was actually looking at buying these earlier. It was always my dream to own a pair of HD650s, but with how much I like my headphones to be colorful I'm not sure I'd enjoy the HD6xx, even at their insanely low price. The 4XX offer a little bit of fun don't they?


Compared to 6xx they’re definitely more fun. The ZMF ori lambskin pads Fit perfectly. You’ll also need some extra pad ring adapters which you can get on eBay or Hifimans website.


----------



## dub Beatz (Dec 2, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> Compared to 6xx they’re definitely more fun. The ZMF ori lambskin pads Fit perfectly. You’ll also need some extra pad ring adapters which you can get on eBay or Hifimans website.



So if you could buy one pair of headphones today for immersive gaming, which would you cop? The 4XX?

Edit: I figure if I've always loved the DT770s, why don't I stick with what I love? I might cop the 177x.


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> So if you could buy one pair of headphones today for immersive gaming, which would you cop? The 4XX?


With no budget I’d get the ZMF Aeolus. But if my budget was $200 I would get the 4xx w/ZMF ori pads. This is personal preference. X2 are gonna be more immersive because they’re more bassy but are not as clear as the 4xx so they won’t be as good for competitive. So if you want the most amount of immersion get the x2. But if also want good clarity for competitive gaming get the 4xx and then upgrade to ZMF ori pads for more immersion later on.


----------



## dub Beatz

headphonesonly said:


> With no budget I’d get the ZMF Aeolus. But if my budget was $200 I would get the 4xx w/ZMF ori pads. This is personal preference. X2 are gonna be more immersive because they’re more bassy but are not as clear as the 4xx so they won’t be as good for competitive. So if you want the most amount of immersion get the x2. But if also want good clarity for competitive gaming get the 4xx and then upgrade to ZMF ori pads for more immersion later on.



I do love immersion, which is why I have an ultrawide monitor. With that being said, do you feel as though the X2 would be an upgrade to the MMX300 or more of a sidegrade? Also, thise Aeolus are gorgeous, wow.


----------



## headphonesonly

dub Beatz said:


> I do love immersion, which is why I have an ultrawide monitor. With that being said, do you feel as though the X2 would be an upgrade to the MMX300 or more of a sidegrade? Also, thise Aeolus are gorgeous, wow.


It’s a side grade in sound. The x2 will have a wider soundstage which will add to the immersion.


----------



## ronfifer

@headphonesonly did you try replacing the stock cable of the 4XX with a balanced cable? If yes, did it improve on its soundstage or separation or detail retrieval?


----------



## headphonesonly

ronfifer said:


> @headphonesonly did you try replacing the stock cable of the 4XX with a balanced cable? If yes, did it improve on its soundstage or separation or detail retrieval?


Running a headphone balanced doesn’t improve sound quality. Just allows for more power to be outputted and reduces the noise floor.


----------



## stavros.m

Has anyone tried Stadia? If so what headphones are using with the system?


----------



## Playstation (Dec 3, 2019)

Are mids important for gaming? 

If bass equals fun and  treble equals competitive, what do mids equal?

Also. 

Are immersive headphones, and fun sounding headphones, the same thing or not?


----------



## kayan

Would something like a Dragonfly Cobalt work for PC gaming with a x2HR? Or should I be looking at something more traditional like a Schiit stack?


----------



## greyforest

kayan said:


> Would something like a Dragonfly Cobalt work for PC gaming with a x2HR? Or should I be looking at something more traditional like a Schiit stack?



It would work, but for that kind of money if you don’t have a need for mobility. Get a thx amp and a gaming sound card would be ideal


----------



## Oluf

Hi, new member here, but long time lurker, especially of this thread.

Might be the wrong thread to ask this as most of the stuff here is related to console gaming, and i'm on PC, but i'll give it a go anyway.

A little background info on what led me to ask these questions: i recently purchased a new gaming rig and started to play PUBG. I hooked up my DT 770 pro 80's to the onboard audio output and crossed my fingers. The sound quality was ok, but the directional accuracy was crap. It was so bad that i was unable to tell if the person walking/running was inside the same building as me, or 3 buildings away, same goes for pinpointing whether the footsteps are coming from behind me or in front when close to a player. This made the game practically unplayable from a competitive standpoint. I dug out a steelseries 7h and used that instead, the headset is utter garbage, but the ability to pinpoint sound direction was way better. I think the footstep sounds in PUBG are pretty deep, so i think the dt 770's would perform way better with some amping. That said, i have a AKG K702 on the way, and i'm in the market for a dac/amp setup.

What dac/amp setups are the go-to solutions now days? I know there are a lot of threads on this here on the forum, but most of them are old, and there are lots of new equipment that has come out in recent years. My needs are purely for PC gaming, competitive FPS, sound direction and footstep pinpointing to be specific. I played a lot of competitive CS 1.6 back in the day, i can't remember what headset i used, but based on the sound alone, i could tell where the enemy was walking with inch precision. This is what i'm after. There is a jungle of options it seems like, so i'm after some advice. Is the new sound blaster sound cards/software good (AE-7/AE-9)? They seem a little overpriced to me for what you get. Sound blaster x-fi series? How good is their "scout mode" which is designed to enhance footsteps? Sennheiser GSX 1000? One review i saw stated that the GSX 1000 is not that good for headphones over 50 ohms, which could be a problem for the K702 and the DT770 80's i guess. Thoughts/experiences here?

Or just use onboard output with an external amp and call it a day? How much difference does these new "virtual surround" algorithms do when strictly looking at geographical pinpointing (footsteps/gunshots)?


----------



## Playstation (Dec 4, 2019)

Playstation said:


> Are mids important for gaming?
> 
> If bass equals fun and  treble equals competitive, what do mids equal?
> 
> ...



Everyone feel free to answer. thanks

To whom it may concern.

In other words. In the context of treble, mids, bass. In gaming audio, what sounds would mids emphasize the most? The OP did say that he himself prefers a V shape sound for gaming. Maybe that's all one really needs.

[merged]


----------



## PurpleAngel

Oluf said:


> Hi, new member here, but long time lurker, especially of this thread.
> Might be the wrong thread to ask this as most of the stuff here is related to console gaming, and i'm on PC, but i'll give it a go anyway. That said, i have a AKG K702 on the way, and i'm in the market for a dac/amp setup.
> What dac/amp setups are the go-to solutions now days? I know there are a lot of threads on this here on the forum, but most of them are old, and there are lots of new equipment that has come out in recent years. My needs are purely for PC gaming, competitive FPS, sound direction and footstep pinpointing to be specific. I played a lot of competitive CS 1.6 back in the day, i can't remember what headset i used, but based on the sound alone, i could tell where the enemy was walking with inch precision. This is what i'm after. There is a jungle of options it seems like, so i'm after some advice. Is the new sound blaster sound cards/software good (AE-7/AE-9)? They seem a little overpriced to me for what you get. Sound blaster x-fi series? How good is their "scout mode" which is designed to enhance footsteps? Sennheiser GSX 1000? One review i saw stated that the GSX 1000 is not that good for headphones over 50 ohms, which could be a problem for the K702 and the DT770 80's i guess. Thoughts/experiences here?
> Or just use onboard output with an external amp and call it a day? How much difference does these new "virtual surround" algorithms do when strictly looking at geographical pinpointing (footsteps/gunshots)?



I really doubt there is a issue with plugging headphones that are 50-Ohms or higher, into the GSX 1000.
Sennheiser recomends headphones in the 16-Ohm to 150-Ohm range, I would assume 250-Ohm beyers would work fine.

If you went with a external DAC/amp, you would want a DAC that comes with an optical input, as optical will allow you to use the features of a sound card.
The optical setup can be used with on-board audio or a cheap sound card (used Sound blaster Z?)
Where as a USB DAC will bypass the features of a sound card.

Creative Labs sells headphone surround sound software, for $30, that works with most on-board audio processors.

Maybe just buy a Creative Labs AE-5 (used eBay), everything you need in one unit.


----------



## Oluf

PurpleAngel said:


> I really doubt there is a issue with plugging headphones that are 50-Ohms or higher, into the GSX 1000.
> Sennheiser recomends headphones in the 16-Ohm to 150-Ohm range, I would assume 250-Ohm beyers would work fine.
> 
> If you went with a external DAC/amp, you would want a DAC that comes with an optical input, as optical will allow you to use the features of a sound card.
> ...



If i end up buying a sound card, ill probably go for one of the new sound blaster's. That's what i'm trying to figure out though. As far as i can tell, the only difference between a dac/amp setup, and a soundcard, is the software. The question then is, is this software a "godsend" for what my goal is here, or is regular stereo playback with an amp to drive the headphones correctly better. These are the questions i need input on, based on experience preferrably.


----------



## PurpleAngel

I guess a fair amount of FPS gamers prefer the Creative Labs Z series or newer AE series of sound cards.
There are a few who prefer Dolby Headphone.
Some like using 3rd party headphone surround sound software (Razor or other).
Some even prefer to use simple stereo audio, for FPS gaming.

With the external (optical) DAC, you can plug it into on-board audio or a sound card (for Dolby or CMSS-3D or SBX or Asus radar or other).
Also with the external optical DAC, you have the option of gaming it stereo audio.

With the newer Creative AE series, you can use the headphone surround sound feature, or just set the sound card for stereo audio.


----------



## Zerufos

Playstation said:


> Are mids important for gaming?
> 
> If bass equals fun and  treble equals competitive, what do mids equal?
> 
> ...



Mids pretty much cover everything from voices to ability sounds. Getting the competitive edge is more than just hearing footsteps, you know. I’d go to even say that bass is a distraction since it’s range is about 80-250hz. That’s such a small range compared to the the much wider range that mids have.

So yeah mids are very important. If you still prefer a V shape, I’d get headphones that don’t have a DEEP V if gaming is important to you.


----------



## mindbomb (Dec 4, 2019)

Oluf said:


> How much difference does these new "virtual surround" algorithms do when strictly looking at geographical pinpointing (footsteps/gunshots)?


To put it simply, virtual surround sound helps you get a better sense of front and back. This dimension is degraded on traditional stereo because stereo is left and right channels only. Complicating matters is that PUBG is a game that has a virtual surround sound option, the "hrtf" option in the audio menu. But conveniently, a youtuber has used this setting to demonstrate the benefits of virtual surround. Keep in mind that all the directional problems highlighted are not specific pubg problems but are stereo audio problems, and whether they occur in pubg or other games, virtual surround sound processing can fix them.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Dec 6, 2019)

So as spotted a week or so ago - the G3 is the new console focused Soundblaster product.

https://sg.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-g3



Glad it has Game/Voice mix and that it allows the app to change settings. Looks like there is no SBX or VSS in this though and dislike the fact the optical in is on the front - not cable friendly for a lounge set up.  Looks to be a budget offering based on the price on the Singapore Creative website though.


----------



## Oluf

mindbomb said:


> To put it simply, virtual surround sound helps you get a better sense of front and back. This dimension is degraded on traditional stereo because stereo is left and right channels only. Complicating matters is that PUBG is a game that has a virtual surround sound option, the "hrtf" option in the audio menu. But conveniently, a youtuber has used this setting to demonstrate the benefits of virtual surround. Keep in mind that all the directional problems highlighted are not specific pubg problems but are stereo audio problems, and whether they occur in pubg or other games, virtual surround sound processing can fix them.




I was thinking more of third party VSS solutions, alà creative's x-fi and sennheiser's gsx 1000. Would these be useless on top of for example pubg's HRTF? I guess ill just try the K702's with the onboard audio, then look into something else if i find the setup don't meet my expectations.


----------



## kayan

Oluf said:


> I was thinking more of third party VSS solutions, alà creative's x-fi and sennheiser's gsx 1000. Would these be useless on top of for example pubg's HRTF? I guess ill just try the K702's with the onboard audio, then look into something else if i find the setup don't meet my expectations.



You’re the new PC gamer, right? If so, I’m in the same boat. I just got my new cans yesterday and they sound anemic plugged into my motherboard. Strangely enough they sound a tad better hooked into my keyboard’s audio pass through, but it’s still pretty bad.

Not sure what I’m going to do at this point.


----------



## mindbomb (Dec 5, 2019)

Oluf said:


> I was thinking more of third party VSS solutions, alà creative's x-fi and sennheiser's gsx 1000. Would these be useless on top of for example pubg's HRTF? I guess ill just try the K702's with the onboard audio, then look into something else if i find the setup don't meet my expectations.



You have to choose one or the other. Really, the most important thing is to not use regular stereo. Whether you get virtual surround sound from an in game option or third party is not as big of a deal imo. Though, most games will not give you an option for virtual surround sound like pubg does. So if you want to play apex legends for example, then you would need third party.


----------



## Oluf

kayan said:


> You’re the new PC gamer, right? If so, I’m in the same boat. I just got my new cans yesterday and they sound anemic plugged into my motherboard. Strangely enough they sound a tad better hooked into my keyboard’s audio pass through, but it’s still pretty bad.
> 
> Not sure what I’m going to do at this point.



I'm not new to pc gaming, but i haven't done a lot of gaming at all in recent years. I played a lot of cs 1.6 and wc3 etc back in the day. Back then, at least for cs 1.6, sound position was not an issue with simple onboard audio and a cheap "gaming headset". I read something about microsoft removing sound API from windows years back. Don't know if that's true or if that is why audio in newer pc games seem simple and dull.


----------



## kayan

Oluf said:


> I'm not new to pc gaming, but i haven't done a lot of gaming at all in recent years. I played a lot of cs 1.6 and wc3 etc back in the day. Back then, at least for cs 1.6, sound position was not an issue with simple onboard audio and a cheap "gaming headset". I read something about microsoft removing sound API from windows years back. Don't know if that's true or if that is why audio in newer pc games seem simple and dull.



My bad, I meant that you were the new member who plays on PC. 

WC3 was my jam! I can't wait for the Remaster.


----------



## Snikibiki

As I can read, k712 pro have smaller soundstage than k701. Isint that because more bass = soundstage can seem smaller a bit?


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 5, 2019)

FPS Gamers, here are my results. My 3 headphones, k702, HE4XX, and AD900x have arrived. Please note that I am running them without an amp yet out of my laptop's built-in audio chip.

Game: Battlefield 1
Windows Sonic for headphones: ON
In-game settings: Headphones, Surround
No external AMP/DAC in this test

1. Imaging Short Range: K702 = AD900x = HE4XX
2. Imaging Long Range: K702 > AD900x > HE4XX
3. Separation of sounds: K702>HE4XX>AD900x. K702 has the cleanest distinction of sounds. AD900X throws all sounds at you in one lumped up package; sounds like a dirty mess.
4. Sound Stage: K702=AD900x > HE4XX. The AD900x has a hollow sounding stage, you can hear the air, hear echo, hear the emptiness, not clean.
5. Sound of my gun: Loudest and most immersive on AD900x, balanced on K702, acceptable on HE4XX.
6. Sound of footsteps: In BF1 is very low on HE4XX, not competitive, makes me lose. Will an amp improve it or should i use EQ to better hear footsteps (which frequency?)

K702 is clear winner without any amp. Wallhack can.

I am researching 3rd party VSS software to use other than Windows Sonic. I don't know how to buy the soundblasterx 720 suite. Razer surround, free version, sounded too bassy but good enough for positioning. Still looking.

I have an Sp200 amp and SU-8 dac on their way.

Screenshots within 1 hour of gaming with the k702:

https://imgur.com/a/RQ3XsjI

https://imgur.com/a/hJrVZUZ


----------



## illram (Dec 5, 2019)

WhiteHartMart said:


> So as spotted a week or so ago - the G3 is the new console focused Soundblaster product.
> 
> https://sg.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-g3
> 
> ...




What a let down (although when the picture leak there wasn't much to expect from a dongle I guess). Also, "Making our first foray into gaming audio on consoles."

?? Umm, guys...


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Creative are aiming to release an update to the G6 before the end of the month that adds Voice/Game balance for PS4 users.  If that's the case, this product is pretty redundant - except for being able to connect to it with a mobile app to change settings. If they had just launched an updated G6 with that feature it would have been a far better solution imho.  A dongle like that just doesn't work in a lounge set up as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Playstation

Can anyone link me to a thread or name as many U shape sound full sized headphones that they can think of. I'd like to stay around $200. thanks


----------



## illram

WhiteHartMart said:


> Creative are aiming to release an update to the G6 before the end of the month that adds Voice/Game balance for PS4 users.  If that's the case, this product is pretty redundant - except for being able to connect to it with a mobile app to change settings. If they had just launched an updated G6 with that feature it would have been a far better solution imho.  A dongle like that just doesn't work in a lounge set up as far as I'm concerned.



It seems to be how they operate. Just in recent memory, the G5/E5 (confusingly overlapping products), their multiple versions of VSS (one of which is terrible), the release of the Super X-Fi dongle (they marketed it for phone users at first even though phones basically lack any 7.1 PCM surround content), the odd functional limitations of the X3 (no line out??) etc. etc.

I love that Creative takes risk and pushes forward this little niche segment of gaming/media technology, and they do seem to manage to make good products most of the time despite this, but man their marketing and product line decisions are just really head scratching sometimes.


----------



## inseconds99

Anyone have experience with the HD820's and the HD800s? If so how does the 820's perform in comparison to the 800s? Also has anyone attempted using modmic wireless with either of these headphones? Can you provide pictures and does that large reciever blocking air change anything sound signature wise with the 800s? Does it cause any rattling on glass with the 820s, or would you not even recommend mounting it on the glass?


----------



## Oluf

ronfifer said:


> FPS Gamers, here are my results. My 3 headphones, k702, HE4XX, and AD900x have arrived. Please note that I am running them without an amp yet out of my laptop's built-in audio chip.
> 
> Game: Battlefield 1
> Windows Sonic for headphones: ON
> ...



Thanks for the info. I just received my K702 today and just plugged them in. Gonna use them with just the onboard output first, then ill test them with a dac/amp later and see if there is any significant difference.


----------



## SierraMadre

illram said:


> It seems to be how they operate. Just in recent memory, the G5/E5 (confusingly overlapping products), their multiple versions of VSS (one of which is terrible), the release of the Super X-Fi dongle (they marketed it for phone users at first even though phones basically lack any 7.1 PCM surround content), the odd functional limitations of the X3 (no line out??) etc. etc.
> 
> I love that Creative takes risk and pushes forward this little niche segment of gaming/media technology, and they do seem to manage to make good products most of the time despite this, but man their marketing and product line decisions are just really head scratching sometimes.


The X3 can apply SBX features to speaker line-out IIRC. It's just SXFI features that can't be applied.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 7, 2019)

Dolby Access Atmos for Headphone and DTS Sound Unbound Headphone X customisation features available on regular Windows builds (as opposed to Insider builds)

So, checked the Dolby Access app for the first time in a while and it appears the Dolby Atmos for headphone  customisation options have made their way into the regular Windows OS builds.
Now there are equaliser profiles (warm, balanced, detailed) that can be applied to several content presets (game, music, movies etc.), what appears to be the equivalent of a footsteps/scout mode in the game content tab (labelled "performance mode"), and finally, customisable 10 band EQ profiles for user-personalised custom presets.
​

 

Also tried installing the DTS sound unbound app. DTS Headphone X room effect / reverb has two settings (balanced and spacious) but no EQ presets or Equaliser.
However, there is a headphone compensation feature which the Dolby Access app currently lacks. They have a decent amount of supported headphone profiles but there are also some glaring omissions. For example, no Sennheiser HD700, HD800 (original or S version) or 660.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Anyone have experience with the HD820's and the HD800s? If so how does the 820's perform in comparison to the 800s? Also has anyone attempted using modmic wireless with either of these headphones? Can you provide pictures and does that large reciever blocking air change anything sound signature wise with the 800s? Does it cause any rattling on glass with the 820s, or would you not even recommend mounting it on the glass?


Imagine taking everything great about the HD800 and throwing it out of the window. That's pretty much how HD820 sounds


----------



## inseconds99

Yethal said:


> Imagine taking everything great about the HD800 and throwing it out of the window. That's pretty much how HD820 sounds



Hey Yethal,

I know we’ve spoken before. Thank you for the update. Just got back into the headphone game and miss my HD650, HD700 and HD800’s for gaming. So I figured I’d start at the top and am looking to get the HD800 S at this point as I did some research and am moving away form the HD820’s.


----------



## Yethal (Dec 7, 2019)

inseconds99 said:


> Hey Yethal,
> 
> I know we’ve spoken before. Thank you for the update. Just got back into the headphone game and miss my HD650, HD700 and HD800’s for gaming. So I figured I’d start at the top and am looking to get the HD800 S at this point as I did some research and am moving away form the HD820’s.


If you're looking for something high end that will perform beautifully in virtual surround try Audio-Technica ADX-5000.


----------



## xxxkinel

Hy there i just wanted to ask for advise on buying new pair of headphones or earphones
It will be for my ps4 to play call of duty only
I will be using it with a astro mixamp tr pro
I am from england
I would prefer to buy in a shop
I only want them for hearing enemies footsteps to be able to pinpoint them only
I dont care about other sounds in game 
Thank you


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 7, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> Hy there i just wanted to ask for advise on buying new pair of headphones or earphones
> It will be for my ps4 to play call of duty only
> I will be using it with a astro mixamp tr pro
> I am from england
> ...


Audio Technica AD700, AKG K702 or AKG Q701.
If you want something with a built-in mic then Audio Technica ADG1X or Sennheiser GSP 500 or Sennheiser Game One.
 I’ll leave you to research the finer differences but the first 3 are very similar, bright and airy presentations which is probably what you’re looking for given that you only care about footsteps, while the last 2 have more bass. The ADG1X is a compromise between the two groups albeit one that leans more towards the first 3 than the final 2. Beyond that, you’re on your own unless someone else wants to elaborate in lieu.

Whether you can get them in a shop local to you is up to your own research. Generally speaking, as far as bricks and mortar go, the first three you’re only likely to find them in specialist AV shops or the AV sections of department stores. The gaming oriented ones, that is the ADG1X and the Sennheisers, you could probably order at Currys or Argos.


----------



## xxxkinel

Thank you for your help sierra madre


----------



## WhiteHartMart

xxxkinel said:


> Hy there i just wanted to ask for advise on buying new pair of headphones or earphones
> It will be for my ps4 to play call of duty only
> I will be using it with a astro mixamp tr pro
> I am from england
> ...



Agree with the recommendations you already had, other than I'm not convinced the Mixamp Pro is up to the job of driving the AKGs.  The previous version wasn't when I had 702s and 712s previously.  They came alive when I changed to a Creative G6/X7.

If you don't mind an Amazon purchase, an alternative would be the Sennheiser PC373D and then buy an additional cable for connecting to the Mixamp. Total cost will be about £40 cheaper than the Game Ones and its essential the same headset


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> Thank you for your help sierra madre


The below quote might have some relevance to WhiteHartMart’s comment. It is from an Amazon user review of the Mixamp Pro TR. Assuming the reviewer didn’t just have a faulty Mixamp, their recommendation would apply to the AKGs and the Audio Technica AD700X in case you went with them:

_“if you plan to use the mixamp with traditional (not a gaming headset with mic, like the astro A40 headset) ordinary, stereo headphones that are just used for listening to music, DON'T directly plug them into the headphone symbol port on the bottom of the mixamp! Instead, first make sure that you use the included Y adapter to split that port into two seperate 3.5mm female plugs (one for stereo headphones, one for microphone), or else you will have very low volume out and bad quality sound!!”
_
That being said, the AKGs are known for being harder to drive than their 62 ohm impedance would suggest so WhiteHartMart may still be right.  I would advise going with an online retailer like Amazon   in this case just for no-quibble return-refund peace of mind; you can buy and try until you find headphones that you like.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Possible dumb questions so I apologize in advance.  Will using a Dac/amp for PS4 make the sound any better than it would from the controller, Not just louder sound, but the quality of sound. 

Say im using dt770s headphones with a dac/amp. Is it going to make the sound any clearer or will I be able to notice sounds I wouldn't notice from just plugging into the controller?

Thanks!


----------



## Yethal

themrmikemcd said:


> Possible dumb questions so I apologize in advance.  Will using a Dac/amp for PS4 make the sound any better than it would from the controller, Not just louder sound, but the quality of sound.
> 
> Say im using dt770s headphones with a dac/amp. Is it going to make the sound any clearer or will I be able to notice sounds I wouldn't notice from just plugging into the controller?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2019)

I dunno why head-fi isn't updating me on this thread, unless I keep commenting. I'm freaking subbed.

I didn't know about any comments for like over a week.


Anyways, I'm currently in the process of writing about the Schiit Hel and Fulla 3.

I've had a disastrous time trying to find free time to write these past few weeks. I miss the times when I would be off from Sunday afternoon until Wednesday night. Now I gotta work sunday nights, and it's messing up any headphone time. I feel particularly bad for Schiit, as I told them I'd be writing weeks ago. I just haven't had the time. They understand, but still, I hate holding on to gear like this.


I THINK I'll be expecting something truly new from Drop soonish. Can't say what yet.  Othger than that, I might take a break or slow down, because I truly just don't have the kind of time I used to.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Thank you so much and if I could ask one more follow-up question to that . Would it make a significant difference whether it's using an optical cable to a DAC amp or if I use a portable DAC amp that can plug into the controller directly? I'm guessing the optical cable would be ideal?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2019)

themrmikemcd said:


> Thank you so much and if I could ask one more follow-up question to that . Would it make a significant difference whether it's using an optical cable to a DAC amp or if I use a portable DAC amp that can plug into the controller directly? I'm guessing the optical cable would be ideal?


optical cable would be far more ideal as you're grabbing a digital signal. Grabbing audio from the controller means you're at the mercy of its internal dac and amp, in which then you'll be amping again, which is not what you want to do.

With a digital signal, you're just taking the 0s and 1s and converting that with your better dac, and amplifying only with your better amp.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Awesome thank you so much for your information!


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

themrmikemcd said:


> Awesome thank you so much for your information!


Further to Mad Lust Envy's comment, an additional consideration is virtual surround sound. The PS4 can only output 2 channel stereo via USB or through the controller. If you get a gaming Dac/amp with an integrated virtual surround solution and an optical input then an optical connection would allow your PS4 to bitstream 5.1 Dolby Digital multichannel signal to the Dac/amp which could then in turn apply its virtual surround processing algorithm to give you virtual surround sound (depending on the unit used, the virtual surround solution would be Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone X or Creative SBX). The exceptions to this are Sony's wireless headsets (Gold, Platinum etc.) which offer Sony's own house Virtual Surround algorithm wirelessly via a dongle.

If you just go with a non-surround dac/amp then you would be at the mercy of the game's in-built audio processing. Some but not all games have programmed-in virtual surround settings for headphones but these are generally not considered to be as effective as the previously mentioned method which takes a signal meant for true surround speaker systems and converts it to virtual surround. For those games that do not have pre-programmed in virtual surround sound you would just be getting a vanilla stereo experience.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Thank you so much for your input as well!


----------



## PurpleAngel

SierraMadre said:


> Further to Mad Lust Envy's comment, an additional consideration is virtual surround sound. The PS4 can only output 2 channel stereo via USB or through the controller. If you get a gaming Dac/amp with an integrated virtual surround solution and an optical input then an optical connection would allow your PS4 to bitstream 5.1 Dolby Digital multichannel signal to the Dac/amp which could then in turn apply its virtual surround processing algorithm to give you virtual surround sound (depending on the unit used, the virtual surround solution would be Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone X or Creative SBX). The exceptions to this are Sony's wireless headsets (Gold, Platinum etc.) which offer Sony's own house Virtual Surround algorithm wirelessly via a dongle.
> 
> If you just go with a non-surround dac/amp then you would be at the mercy of the game's in-built audio processing. Some but not all games have programmed-in virtual surround settings for headphones but these are generally not considered to be as effective as the previously mentioned method which takes a signal meant for true surround speaker systems and converts it to virtual surround. For those games that do not have pre-programmed in virtual surround sound you would just be getting a vanilla stereo experience.


When you say "gaming DAC/amp", we can assume you mean external sound card?


----------



## themrmikemcd

SierraMadre said:


> Further to Mad Lust Envy's comment, an additional consideration is virtual surround sound. The PS4 can only output 2 channel stereo via USB or through the controller. If you get a gaming Dac/amp with an integrated virtual surround solution and an optical input then an optical connection would allow your PS4 to bitstream 5.1 Dolby Digital multichannel signal to the Dac/amp which could then in turn apply its virtual surround processing algorithm to give you virtual surround sound (depending on the unit used, the virtual surround solution would be Dolby Headphone, DTS headphone X or Creative SBX). The exceptions to this are Sony's wireless headsets (Gold, Platinum etc.) which offer Sony's own house Virtual Surround algorithm wirelessly via a dongle.
> 
> If you just go with a non-surround dac/amp then you would be at the mercy of the game's in-built audio processing. Some but not all games have programmed-in virtual surround settings for headphones but these are generally not considered to be as effective as the previously mentioned method which takes a signal meant for true surround speaker systems and converts it to virtual surround. For those games that do not have pre-programmed in virtual surround sound you would just be getting a vanilla stereo experience.


While on the subject, I do have both versions of the Mix amp the older one with orange bottom and the TR edition.  The TR edition's SS  sounds so tinny. Does anyone know if there is any settings to help with that or is it just the way they made it?   the older one sounds better, but it's on it's last legs....Might invest in a better dac/amp..  Was seeing if they made that much of a difference in sound overall and it sounds like they do. Thanks for all the info  everyone.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

PurpleAngel said:


> When you say "gaming DAC/amp", we can assume you mean external sound card?


They are sometimes referred to as "external sound card(s)", yes. By "gaming", I specifically mean those external dac/amps designed/marketed with gaming as a primary or significant use case, as outside a small handful of exceptions, such gaming branded devices tend to be the only external headphone dac/amps that offer any kind of discrete surround sound decoding for VSS conversion. There are of course, a few gaming branded dac/amps that don't offer VSS conversion but these tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

Lack of surround decoding and/or various gaming and/or multimedia oriented features/enhancements aside though, at the end of the day, a Schiit dac/amp or any other branded vanilla all-in-one headphone dac/amp is just as much an "external soundcard" as one of the aforementioned gaming dac/amps.


----------



## Snikibiki

As I can read, k712 pro have smaller soundstage than k701. Isint that because more bass = soundstage can seem smaller a bit?


----------



## xxxkinel (Dec 8, 2019)

Thanks again all for the advice

I used to come on these forums years ago and get brilliant advice
When i ws here years aho sennheisers pc360 were great  MLE gave them a  10 for competive play

But i could never buy them  i think every where i checked was out of stock or to dear at the time

I was just checking amazon for your recomdations and seen the pc 360 for sale at half the price of sennheisers game one
In the past i always wanted the  pc360 because peole here said they were excellent

So what would you guys score the pc 360 now if you were to score them for competetive play only

I would love  to hear  MLE opinion on these now if he still rates them highly

If possible MLE could you tell me what version of the Pc 360 you reviewd
I think theres two versions so wanna buy the right
the version on sale is the pc 360 special edition


----------



## SierraMadre

xxxkinel said:


> Thanks again all for the advice
> 
> I used to come on these forums years ago and get brilliant advice
> When i ws here years aho sennheisers pc360 were great  MLE gave them a  10 for competive play
> ...


If it's the £89.99 Amazon listing you are talking about, then you'd probably be better off just paying the extra £15 and going for the GSP500. They are basically the successor model to the Game One's which were already better designed and slightly better specc'd than the PC 360s. Unlike the Game One and GSP 500, the 360s don't feature a detachable cable (so you're screwed if it breaks unless you are willing to repair it yourself or pay to have someone repair it for you). Additionally, they are harder to drive than the GSP 500. 

Or, if you are set upon the look and headband design of the 360s then get this from Drop (formerly Massdrop), it is the most recent iteration of that fundamental design but also has a detachable cable and slightly better specs. Converted into pounds it's about £105, shipping included, no customs or VAT (at least until if and when we leave the EU). 

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset-eu


----------



## xxxkinel

I think ive narrow downed my search to 3 diffrent headphones
Pc 360   \  Gsp500     \akg 702
Out of the three 
What do you guys think would be best for soundwhoring on a ps4
With an astro mixamp pro tr
These headphones will only be used for hearing enemies footsteps to pinpoint where they are
I will be plsying call of duty mw19

My current setup is superlux hd somthing
I bought these headphones after yiu guys recomened them to me years ago
There good for a budget but i need to upgrade to a better headphones
I would love to hear all your opions  the more the better 

You guys are the experts

Any thing you recomened in the past has been great


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 9, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> I think ive narrow downed my search to 3 diffrent headphones
> Pc 360   \  Gsp500     \akg 702
> Out of the three
> What do you guys think would be best for soundwhoring on a ps4
> ...


I'm no expert but for pure sound-whoring, the K702. Obviously, you would need to make provisions for the mic.

I can't stress this enough though, there is *zero* upside to you choosing the PC 360 over the PC 37X other than saving £15 or so. That extra £15 is well worth the spend given the advantages the 37X has over the 360.

@xxxkinel One last point, and then I'll shut up about the PC37X. If you're reticent about the 37X and more inclined towards the PC360 because the former is only available on Drop whereas the latter is available on Amazon, don't be. Drop is a legit retailer.
The reason why you won't find the 37X stocked new anywhere else is because they are an exclusive collaboration between Sennheiser and Drop. They partnered together for development and marketing of the product so that should give you some indication as to Drop's legitimacy.

[merged]


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## xxxkinel (Dec 8, 2019)

The problem i have is sombody else is buying them for me and i know they will only buy from amazon or ebay

The only online shops i can buy from are ebay or amazon
That is why i preferd i could buy from a shop myself
 Thank you for your help  love the more advice the better


----------



## WhiteHartMart

xxxkinel said:


> The proglem i have is sombody else is buying them for me and i know they will only buy from amazon or ebay



Then go for the Sennheiser PC373D I mentioned above. £80ish plus £15 for an additional cable if needed. Cheaper than the 37x and easy returns if not happy.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> The proglem i have is sombody else is buying them for me and i know they will only buy from amazon or ebay


Ah, ok. Fair enough. In that case, in order of recommendation:

1. AKG K702

2. GSP 500

3. Sennheiser PC373D as recommended by WhiteHartMart or anything other than the PC360 unless the non-detachable nature of the cable and risk of damage is really no issue for you.


----------



## xxxkinel

so the pc 373d i was looking at but that has 7.1 souround sound built in but i want my mixamp to use its dolby headphones
So if i bought the pc 373d  am i just paying for the souround sound or are they good as well
As these headsets i know nothing about


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## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> so the pc 373d i was looking at but that has 7.1 souround sound built in but i want my mixamp to use its dolby headphones
> So if i bought the pc 373d  am i just paying for the souround sound or are they good as well
> As these headsets i know nothing about


The Dolby Headphone surround dongle that comes with the 373D is only compatible with PC (it's essentially the unit's own little USB dac/amp) so you would still be reliant on your Astro Mixamp for Virtual surround from the PS4. You should still be able to use the 373D as a standard pair of 3.5mm jack stereo headphones though.


----------



## xxxkinel (Dec 8, 2019)

Cheers for your advise everyone im still trying to decide what to buy
i will try to persusade the person to buy pc 37x from the site you recomened


----------



## SierraMadre

xxxkinel said:


> Cheers for your advise everyone im still trying to decide what to buy
> i will try to persusade the person to buy from the site you recomened


Ok, good luck!


----------



## xxxkinel

Ok i just added these to my list of what to buy
Dt900  pro   
Akg 702
ad700x as ad700 i cant buy any where it seems
gsp 500
These headphones will be used for soundwhoring    i only want to be able to tell exactly where enemies are
I will use it on my ps4 with my astro mixamp pro tr
i will only be using them for call of duty mw19 nothing else btw i have a boom mic already
Sorry to keep changing the list

I can go up to 150 pounds
If you wanna recomend somthing better  please do
From amazon or ebay


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> Ok i just added these to my list of what to buy
> Dt900  pro
> Akg 702
> ad700x as ad700 i cant buy any where it seems
> ...


K702 then if you already have a boom mic.

- The GSP500 has a mic which you don't need.

- The ad700x does not have a detachable cable and is not sufficiently different from the K702 to offset that.

- The DT990 Pro *Premium* does not have a detachable cable, but it at least has a coiled one to mitigate the risk of damage through yanking. The non-Pro version (just called the "DT990 Pro *Edition*") has a non-detachable straight cable. 
You would need to choose the 32ohm version so your Mixamp Pro can drive it properly. *But*, in any case, while the DT990s are an excellent set of all-rounder cans for gaming (which I would have no problem recommending to someone who wanted to sound-whore *in addition* to enjoying non-competitive gaming and multimedia entertainment), it's a considerably bassier headphone than your other candidates and so will be less ideally suited for your specific COD Soundwhoring-only use case.


----------



## xxxkinel

Thanks again
I actually thought you was recomend ad700x first
I know in the past ad700 was great for soundwhoring


----------



## SierraMadre

xxxkinel said:


> Thanks again
> I actually thought you was recomend ad700x first
> I know in the past ad700 was great for soundwhoring


Well, it depends on whether the Mixamp Pro can drive the K702 but I reckon there's enough chance that it might so I recommend trying them out from Amazon. If they're no good for you then just return them and go for the GSP500.

While the AD700X is indeed great for soundwhoring (and likely a bit better than the GSP500 in that regard), again, the AD700X cable is non-detachable so I wouldn't recommend it over the GSP500 if risk of damage (and remedial options in event of damage) are at all a concern for you.


----------



## xxxkinel

Thanks again 
im not really worried about damage really as ive never had problems in the past


----------



## Johnnytran

@xxxkinel I'd stay away from the AD700X for MW, I bought them after seeing so many recommendations how they're the best for sound whoring footsteps but had the complete opposite experience in MW. The soundstage is large so things (footsteps) will sound further away, I lost count how many times people were moving close to me but I didn't even hear them. I was using them with the mixamp tr as well, tried all the different EQ's but none helped. The sound didn't have good separation, it felt all thrown at me at once so I couldn't really hear footsteps while there was other stuff happening around me.

I don't have any experience with any of the other headphones mentioned so I cant really comment on them. I ended up purchasing the DT770 pros and have tweaked the EQ a little and feel like I'm cheating with the way I've been able to pinpoint people's movement.


----------



## xxxkinel (Dec 8, 2019)

Johhytran ive spoken to you before a few weeks ago in another topic but
please please tell us your eq settings your using for cod mw
I think your using another eq but still please post your settings
I might be able to put those frequncies into my mixamp pro tr
 Ile look at the headset you mentioned as well
Btw johhntran what 0hm did you purchase
Thanks all i love this forum


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## SierraMadre (Dec 8, 2019)

Johnnytran said:


> @xxxkinel I'd stay away from the AD700X for MW, I bought them after seeing so many recommendations how they're the best for sound whoring footsteps but had the complete opposite experience in MW. The soundstage is large so things (footsteps) will sound further away, I lost count how many times people were moving close to me but I didn't even hear them. I was using them with the mixamp tr as well, tried all the different EQ's but none helped. The sound didn't have good separation, it felt all thrown at me at once so I couldn't really hear footsteps while there was other stuff happening around me.
> 
> I don't have any experience with any of the other headphones mentioned so I cant really comment on them. I ended up purchasing the DT770 pros and have tweaked the EQ a little and feel like I'm cheating with the way I've been able to pinpoint people's movement.



My experience with the Audio Technica AD line for soundwhoring has generally been very good but the above impression from JohhnyTran does echo a recent post by another user, Ronfifer, regarding the AD900X, the step-up sibling of the AD700X (albeit using onboard sound with Windows Sonic for VSS rather than Dolby Headphone via the Mixamp TR):
​


ronfifer said:


> FPS Gamers, here are my results. My 3 headphones, k702, HE4XX, and AD900x have arrived. Please note that I am running them without an amp yet out of my laptop's built-in audio chip.
> 
> Game: Battlefield 1
> Windows Sonic for headphones: ON
> ...



I've also heard at least one further user claim that the K702 has more articulate imaging than the AD700X.


----------



## Johnnytran

xxxkinel said:


> Johhytran ive spoken to you before a few weeks ago in another topic but
> please please tell us your eq settings your using for cod mw
> I think your using another eq but still please post your settings
> I might be able to put those frequncies into my mixamp pro tr
> ...



I don't know how to transfer them into the mixamp's software but all I did was lower the 31-62Hz and bumped up the 2-4KHz frequencies a little


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## xxxkinel (Dec 9, 2019)

Thank you

On the first page of this review MLE reviews either akg 701 or the akg 702 
Does anyone know what headset he reviewed
Because in the title it shows two  names
So i dont know what the review is for what version



Johnnytran said:


> I don't know how to transfer them into the mixamp's software but all I did was lower the 31-62Hz and bumped up the 2-4KHz frequencies a little


Any chance you could post the db settings of those frequncies
How far can you pinpoint enemys footsteps from 5ft    10ft    20ft     30ft im just wandering out of curiosity

[merged]


----------



## Johnnytran

I'm not at home atm but if you look at my post history I posted a screenshot of the G6 EQ I used with the A40, it's pretty much the same thing I'm using with the DT770's. I have no idea how far I can pin point footsteps sorry


----------



## xxxkinel

Are you still using boost high preset  ingame
Thanks for the replys


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2019)

xxxkinel said:


> On the first page of this review MLE reviews either akg 701 or the akg 702
> Does anyone know what headset he reviewed
> Because in the title it shows two  names
> So i dont know what the review is for what version


The review itself plainly states K701 in like every other sentence.

Not that it matters, findings over the years have concluded that they were nigh identical. Driver variation mainly being what accounted for the very minute differences. The main difference was the color, and removable cables in the K702, while the K701 was attached at all times.


----------



## xxxkinel

*MLE thank you for the reply
I read the review many years ago but i cant remember 
I did try and read the review yesterday but it the link wasnt working for me

Ive got my list down to two headphones  now either the 
Akg 702 or the dt770 pros
Ive put the dt770 pro on my list because of johntrans recomdation
What do you guys think would be best
These will just be used to soundwhoring  in call of duty modern warfare 19 nothing else
Its for the ps4 with my astro mixamp pro tr*


----------



## themrmikemcd

xxxkinel said:


> *MLE thank you for the reply
> I read the review many years ago but i cant remember
> I did try and read the review yesterday but it the link wasnt working for me
> 
> ...


While I can't say that I am anywhere near an audiophile, I own the DT770 and find them more fun and have some good bass. Not booming bass but enough for me to enjoy single player and listening to music.  I have no information on the akg 702s.


----------



## Xspearo (Dec 9, 2019)

themrmikemcd said:


> While I can't say that I am anywhere near an audiophile, I own the DT770 and find them more fun and have some good bass. Not booming bass but enough for me to enjoy single player and listening to music.  I have no information on the akg 702s.



I can say the AKG 702 with sound blaster G6 are really good for Apex and COD MW.


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 9, 2019)

If you go for K702 make sure you have one other headphone to play single player or non-competitive games, as the K702 sounds poor in that department. I use the K702 for competitive FPS and AD900x for single player or Coop games. AD900x can be used for both scenarios, competitive and single player, but the K702 is best at competitive only. I have not tried the DT770 pro.


----------



## xxxkinel

Thank you all for your advice
We bought the akg702 i just have to wait till it gets back in stock


----------



## flooberjobby

So I have had like 2-3 Audio Technica AD700 headphones. When my last pair died a while ago. I got a pair of ATH-ADG1X, hoping they would be like my previous audio technica's. But to me I feel like they're terrible for gaming compared to them. Since the AD700 is discontinued and my ADG1X is basically a AD700X. Any recommendations on either a place to repair my AD700(s) or something I could get that will give me the same or better sound for Competitive FPS gaming?I know the AD700 really lacked in base. But I have never found another headphone that lets me hear footsteps and other important game sounds like them. Unless someone could tell me that the AD700X is basically a AD700, and the ADG1X is just crap, that would help to.

I saw that the AKG 701, and AKG 702 were close to the AD700 in your review. But there are so many variations of them on AMAZON it's hard to find the right one. If I was going to try the AKG701, and the fact that the AKG 702 basically sounds the same with detachable cable I was going to try the 702 because it would be easier to replace a worn out cable.

Just an FYI. I never had an amp, or dac to go with my AD700. Never felt I needed one with it.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 10, 2019)

flooberjobby said:


> So I have had like 2-3 Audio Technica AD700 headphones. When my last pair died a while ago. I got a pair of ATH-ADG1X, hoping they would be like my previous audio technica's. But to me I feel like they're terrible for gaming compared to them. Since the AD700 is discontinued and my ADG1X is basically a AD700X. Any recommendations on either a place to repair my AD700(s) or something I could get that will give me the same or better sound for Competitive FPS gaming?I know the AD700 really lacked in base. But I have never found another headphone that lets me hear footsteps and other important game sounds like them. Unless someone could tell me that the AD700X is basically a AD700, and the ADG1X is just crap, that would help to.
> 
> I saw that the AKG 701, and AKG 702 were close to the AD700 in your review. But there are so many variations of them on AMAZON it's hard to find the right one. If I was going to try the AKG701, and the fact that the AKG 702 basically sounds the same with detachable cable I was going to try the 702 because it would be easier to replace a worn out cable.
> 
> Just an FYI. I never had an amp, or dac to go with my AD700. Never felt I needed one with it.


The ADG1X drivers are based on the AD900X, just with a bit more bass although neither are by any means “bass” cans. Moreover, it has a higher impedance (48 ohms) than the AD700 (34 ohms) so would probably benefit from a better dac/amp (even the AD700X has higher impedance (48ohms) than your old AD700s). It is not known for being particularly responsive to low powered amps.

But, if you have given up on them then the AKG 702 is your best bet but a 701 would work too, possibly slightly better as it has very slightly less bass than the 701. Additionally, several users have commented on how they find the AKGs 701/702 to be better at imaging than the AD line. You would definitely want a dac/amp though as the K702 has an impedance of 62 ohms and is even less sensitive (I.e. less responsive to low power amps) than the ADG1X.

I suggest you get a dac/amp (or at least an amp), it will improve your experience with most headphones and may fix your issues with the ADG1X . . . Even if it doesn’t, then you’ll want likely need a dac/amp anyway for the K702.

If you don’t want to get a dac/amp then short of finding a used AD700 in good condition, the best option would be the Philips SHP9500. It has a 32 ohm impedance and is pretty good for sound whoring as it’s airy and somewhat  bass-light.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 10, 2019)

Ok guys, I'm STRESSING that this isn't going to be on the same caliber as my usual reviews, because I just don't know how to do dac/amps properly. Keep that in mind. I tried here, but it may sound a bit more casual than normal. As such, I don't really consider this a review, but more of a hodgepodge of personal impressions. Take that as you will.



----------
----------

*Schiit Gaming Dac/Amps 'Hel' and 'Fulla 3'*

Hel: $189 as of Dec 2019
Fulla $99 as of Dec 2019

Where to buy: Hel at Schiit.com , Fulla 3 at Schiit.com

*Full Review with many images posted HERE first.*



Spoiler:  CLICK HERE TO OPEN THE FULL REVIEW



_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Schiit's Jason Stoddard for sending out the Hel and Fulla 3 for my impressions. He didn't even ask for a review, just wanted me to give him what I thought of them and any points of improvements, etc.

As I'm someone who doesn't feel comfortable with dac/amp reviews, this particular "review" will be a bit more freestyle, with a more relaxed, thoughts on paper approach to writing, as opposed to my typical review process of trying to make it as professional as I possibly can. I think it's better for it, as I don't feel right about trying to condense my thoughts into my common review style for headphones for amp/dacs. It's why you haven't seen any full on review of anything outside of the gaming dac/amps that were easier to write about due to the software features. As Schiit's dac/amps are more simplistic, without any software, it wouldn't work quite the same. This entry will not be as long as those reviews, but I'll do my best in trying to make it legible to a degree. Thanks for your understanding.

I also know those in my small corner of the audiophile community like and use virtual surround devices, which these are not. So these aren't aimed at them, and here I'm writing this 'review' for everyone else who doesn't need or use stuff like that, and just want the raw, untouched, stereo sound. Besides, the Fulla and Hel make excellent amp/dacs outside of gaming as well, so they may still be interested in these.

I've also decided on merging the Fulla 3 and Hel into one "Schiit Gaming DAC/Amps" review, mainly because they're both fresh products with similar uses, at different price levels. I didn't feel a need to separate them into smaller reviews, as I think it all flows together for me as just one review. Besides, I don't have elaborate testing being done in terms of their sound, measurements, or what have you. This will be a more 'casual' approach into these two products._



*Intro*​
I'll be the first to admit, I'm an avid fan of Schiit. Now, by saying that you may think I'm biased towards them. I'll just tell you that in terms of amps, all I care about is them providing enough clean power for my headphones. I don't expect solid state amps to sound very different from one another as long as the headphones in question are supplied the power necessary for them to perform optimally.

Yes, I know they do sound different here or there, but the vast majority of a headphone's sound is the headphone, regardless of who makes the gear attached to it. In terms of DACs, well, I'm also happy just having one that provides a digital to analog conversion cleanly. So I'm not the best person in trying to convince me that $5000 dacs are better than $100 DACs that sounds good enough to my ears. Multibit, NOS, DSD, whatever. None of that matters TO ME. Like, for one example, at the time of owning the original Modi and the ODAC, I found the ODAC to sound superior. Like audibly so. That still didn't stop me from being a fan of Schiit.

So then why am I a fan of Schiit when I don't really care much about amps and dacs all that much? Things like their design sense, whether physical, mechanical, or simply aesthetics. They inject their own ideas to their products, and tend not to follow common industry standards. They stand out. I love that. Bandwagons are boring. Be unique. Be Schiit, not sh... you get it. I like their swagger. I like that they make me wanna know MORE about amps and dacs with their manner of speaking about them. They make learning about these things fun. So yes, I'm thankful for Schiit for making me just a little more knowledgeable about aspects of audio I don't pay as much attention to.

So while I'm a fan of Schiit, don't expect bias in terms of how these dac/amps stack up next to other dac/amps. I'm only looking at these products in a bubble for what they are and provide. Why not get other things outside of Schiit amp/dacs? Well, I have, but they tend to be gaming oriented. In terms of typical audiophile gear, I get Schiit gear because that's what I want. You want Topping, JDS, Monoprice, or whatever? Good for you. You want that, I want Schiit. I'm sure we'll both be happy.

Personally speaking, I have owned the original Modi, Magni, Vali, and Lyr. My current main setup utilizes the Modi 3 and Magni 3. So I'm no stranger to Schiit. I haven't ventured into their more exotic offerings, nor their multibit iterations. Perhaps someday. I've been very happy sticking to a well performing mini Schiit stack.

Even so, I (as well as plenty of others) have clamored for Schiit to make dac/amps all in one chassis. While they relented a while ago with some add-in cards for the Asgard, Lyr, and the like, the Fulla was their first true dac/amp design, followed by the Hel. Had the Hel been released a year earlier, that probably would've been my main gear over the Modi/Magni 3 stack. I love my stack, but I love the simplicity of dac/amps in one box even more.

So in comes the Fulla 3 and Hel. Both being the only Schiit devices with mic inputs, earning them legitimate 'gaming dac/amp' status, though they are true audiophile dac/amps beyond the scope of just gaming.

Before jumping in, let me quote some of the product specs for both devices

*Fulla 3:
*
_Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.5db
Maximum Power, 16 ohms: 400mW RMS
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 250mW RMS
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 200mW RMS
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 40mW RMS
THD: <0.002%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS
IMD: <0.002%, CCIR
SNR: >105db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: >-80dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance (headphones): 0.5 ohms
Output Impedance (line out): 75 ohms
Input Impedance (rear 1/8" jack): 10k ohms
Gain: 1.7 (4.6db)
USB Receiver: C-Media CM6631A
DAC: AKM AK4490 with TI OPA1662-based filter stage

Sample Rates and Bit Depths: 16/44.1 to 24/192 supported without drivers on Windows 10, Mac, Linux, Android (UAC 2 device)

Output Stage: TI LMH6643 x 2 (1 per channel)

Power Supply: Via USB, with +/- 5V rails via high-current dual-polarity switching regulator, with inductor filtering and local regulation

Power Consumption: 0.8W typical
Size: 3.5 x 2.5 x 1.375” (including knob)
Weight: 9 oz

_
*Hel*

_Frequency Response: 20Hz-20Khz, +/-0.3db
Maximum Power, 16 Ohms: 1200mW RMS
Maximum Power, 32 ohms: 1000mW RMS
Maximum Power, 50 ohms: 650mW RMS
Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 200mW RMS
THD: <0.0015%, 20Hz-20KHz, at 1V RMS
IMD: <0.0015%, CCIR
SNR: >108db, A-weighted, referenced to 1V RMS
Crosstalk: >-80dB, 20Hz-20KHz
Output Impedance (headphones): 0.25 ohms
Output Impedance (line out): 75 ohms
Input Impedance (rear 1/8" jack): 10k ohms
Gain: 1 (0dB) or 5 (14dB)
USB Receiver: C-Media CM6631A
DAC: AKM AK4490 with TI OPA1662-based filter stage

Sample Rates and Bit Depths: 16/44.1 to 24/192 supported without drivers on Windows 10, Mac, Linux, Android (UAC 2 device)

Output Stage: TI OPA1688 (4 amp stages per channel)

Power Supply: Via USB, with +/- 12V rails via high-current dual-polarity switching regulator, with inductor filtering and local regulation

Power Consumption: 2.5W typical
Size: 5 x 3.5 x 1.375” (including knob)
Weight: 13oz_



*Build*​
Schiit knows how to make some sexy looking gear. Their outer appearance is 100% Schiit, and hasn't strayed far from year 1 Schiit products. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, I'd say.


*Fulla 3:

*

Its size is essentially a Modi or Magni chopped in half, slightly shorter in height, with a beefy volume pot attached to the top. It's a cute, tiny thing, with the volume knob being almost comically large relative to the body itself. The volume pot makes the one on the Magni look puny.

Starting at the front (left to right):



3.5mm mic input:  replaces the Fulla 2's front facing analog input, (which now has been moved to the rear on the Fulla 3).

3.5mm headphone jack:  This has replaced the 1/4" jack of the Fulla 2. This is one change I somewhat understand being made, but I still would've preferred a 1/4" jack. Most headsets are gonna have 3.5mm plugs, which I'm sure is why Schiit has made that change, but if you want to use a regular headphone which may have 1/4" plugs, you'll have to hope they have a 3.5mm underneath the 1/4" plug, or include a 3.5mm adapter, or you'll have to get one yourself. It's far less common than having a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter. 3.5mm jacks are also less reliable. In my opinion, just including a 1/4" adapter (like they do in the Hel) would've been far more ideal. Maybe for the next one, Schiit will go back to the 1/4" jack. 1/4" to 3.5mm adapters aren't great unless it's in cable form, which are more expensive than the questionable barrel adapters that add stress to 3.5mm ports.


The rear of the Fulla (left to right):


3.5mm variable out - apparently it has a marker for line level, but I don't see one. I'll update if/when I'm corrected.

3.5mm analog input - for when you want to use the Fulla just as an amplifier. Not sure I see many use cases for this, which is why I would've taken a digital toslink/optical input instead, if possible.

Micro USB port for power - Either for when you want to use the Fulla as an amplifier only, or if you don't want to draw power from whatever device the data USB input is connected to.

Micro USB port for data. You likely won't need to use the power only port, unless your data usb ports don't give the Fulla enough power, or using the Fulla only as an amplifier.


The top of the Fulla holds the previously mentioned volume knob, which is frankly quite awesome. It feels substantial, and an improvement over the meager little knob on the Magni and Vali. There is also some open slots up here for ventilation, as is the norm on all Schiit amps.



The sides are just for ventilation, while the bottom holds three rubber feet, which keeps the Fulla from sliding around while adjusting the volume, perhaps even better than the Magni, as the front facing knob on the Magni makes it a bit easy to push around while making volume adjustments. The Fulla's problem is that there is only one rubber foot on the rear, which makes it wobble a bit with minimal pressure. I think for the eventual Fulla 4, Schiit should place 4 feet on the bottom. It's a minor quibble, nothing truly necessary, but would be welcome.

In terms of weight and size, the Fulla 3 is light and super compact, making it a perfect companion for notebooks/laptops. For that alone, I would consider the Fulla 3 over virtually any other dac/amp for on the go purposes. You simply connect it via usb, and toss it in a bag when done. It is simplicity at its best. Function and form for the minimalist who mainly wants more than what a laptop can provide through its headphone jack.

One final thing worth noting is the lack of a power indicator. I would like to see at the very least an internal red LED similar to the one found on the Hel. Definitely internal, seen through the openings, and not the laser beam that was the front white led of doom from past Schiit products.


*Hel:

*

The Hel is more or less the size of a Magni or Modi, just slightly shorter in height, with the inputs/outputs placed on the short sides as opposed to them being on the longer sides on the Magni/Modi. This means that the Hel will take up less horizontal space, but will need more clearance in the back in terms of depth.

Starting at the front (left to right):


Mic gain knob - allows you to manually adjust the mic output level. This is something many other gaming dac/amps tend to somehow miss. The inclusion here alone puts the Hel well above the others for me in terms of microphone practicality. I'll take a manual knob over software controls each and every time. Thank you, Schiit. Never get rid of this. In fact, maybe include it on more products. Fantastic.

3.5mm mic input - self explanatory. You can attach any mic here. This is ONLY for the mic, so if you have a headset with both audio and mic channels placed in one 3.5mm input, make sure to use the included audio/mic splitter.

USB/Analog Input switch - Select from the USB input or analog input.

Low/High Gain switch - choose between 1 (0db) or 5 (14db) gain. You should have plenty of volume travel with the right gain selected on most headphones.

1/4" (6.3mm) headphone jack - I don't think one can ever go wrong with a 1/4" input. Much better than 3.5mm, personally. If you have a headphone that only has 3.5mm plug, that's what the included adapter is for. You probably have a million 1/4" adapters laying about anyways.


Now on to the rear (left to right):


3.5mm analog input - For the times you want to use the HEL as an amp only device. Perhaps you have a Modi multibit or other dac, here you go. It goes without saying that the mic input won't work unless the Hel's dac is being used.

3.5mm variable out. Has volume control, but if you want to use the Hel as a dac only, set it to low gain, and raise volume all the way to the max. It will effectively become a line out this way.

Power micro USB input - This is necessary to power the Hel with the included 2.1a wall wart. Make sure it's this wall wart being used, as other wall warts (like the one supplied with the Modi) will not supply enough power to the Hel.

Data micro usb input - This one is necessary for dac use.


*Final Build Quality Impressions:*


As for points of improvements for both Hel and Fulla, I think it's about time to let micro USB die a long, gruesome death, and in its place, utilize the utterly superior type-C ports. I'm not just saying that because I have ruined countless micro USB cables and ports. Nope. That's not the reason. Ok, maybe it is. I hate micro USB anything, and can't wait for everyone to forget about it forever. Schiit, you guys are pioneers... please don't hold back your gear with these outdated ports. Do it for me. I'm also sad that the true line out was removed on the Fulla, and now you're forced to use the pre-out. I know real estate is at a premium with the Fulla, so I do understand this change. I'm just a little sad about it.



As for the Hel, I wish it was oriented like the Magni, where the inputs would be placed on the longer sides, like typical mini Schiit devices. The Hel is essentially a Magni rotated 90 degrees. It would've made it easier to stack with other mini Schiit gear, as well as technically have more space for rear inputs. I dunno how they'd change the actual internal circuitry to allow this, but I'm sure they can pull it off. I think even rotated sideways to sit like other mini Schiit, the volume knob and openings are placed just fine as is

The Fulla 3 and Hel are well designed overall. Asides from the changes I mentioned that I'd like to see for the next possible revisions, there really isn't anything wrong with the Fulla's build and design. Top notch product. Asides from personal wishes, the Hel is also very well built. The Red and black color scheme looks great as well.



*Accessories
*​* *

The Fulla 3 comes with a 3ft micro usb cable as its only accessory. The rubber feet are already mounted to the Fulla. Nothing really necessary in addition to the cable, though perhaps a 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter as wall as a headset audio/mic splitter cable would've been great, though I understand why it wasn't included, as it'd add to the cost. You may need a longer USB cable depending on your setup, but most people likely have spare micro USB cables to begin with.

 

The Hel comes a bit better equipped. Two 3ft micro USB cables, a 2.1a wall wart for power, a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter, and a headset audio/mic splitter. All the essentials are covered.



*Ease of Use*​


The Fulla 3 and Hel are wonderful products in that there is no software required, and in most current age setups don't require driver downloads. You simply plug it into your main device, and select it as your audio device. You should be good to go. If for some reason you're using something a bit older without UAC2 support, Schiit has a driver download page with instructions, by CLICKING HERE.

As gaming dac/amps, the Fulla and Hel are a bit more limited in comparison to something like the Creative G6 or X7 due to lack of typical features found on other devices like software, equalizers, presets, etc. That being said, there are reasons to go for the Schiit gear over more specialized gaming dac/amps, one being the much, much easier to use functionality. You really can't mess up the usability here, while stuff like the G6 and X7 can at times be hampered by its software and driver issues. With the Schiit gear, you plug them in, and they just work. No fiddling with drivers, software, and confusing options. What you see, is what you get. That to me, is perfect. Outside of my love for virtual surround processing options, I tend not to bother with all other features on those types of dac/amps. So if and when I'm not worried about virtual surround applications, I find the Fulla and Hel to be more ideal choices.

In terms of non-PC use, the analog input takes care of that for times when you need just an amplifier, though I believe as a gaming dac/amp, a digital toslink/spdif optical input would've greatly added to the Fulla and Hel's functionality where it counts, though perhaps there is size restraints that keep the Fulla from being able to have one. I'd happily give up the analog input on both for this, personally. I believe the Fulla is best used as a dac/amp, and should be bought for that reason as the entry level dac/amp of choice, and then upgrading to the next tier if necessary. As for the Hel, I'm sure something can be done to add an optical input in the future without sacrificing any input, which would allow the Hel to compete in the console space. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Going back to the volume knobs, I just find them so much better in practicality over front mounted knobs, for devices as small as these. You can essentially just rest your hands near the devices and adjust with your fingers, while front mounted knobs require a bit more effort. I dunno, I'm sure it's purely based on preference, but if Schiit placed volume knobs on top of all their mini solid state amps like the Magni, I'd be all over that. Yes, it means they'll have to sit on the top of whatever Schiit stack you have going on, but that's an easy choice to make. Even off center, I think a Magni with a top mounted knob on ther right side with ventilation on the left would be wonderful. Maybe for a Magni 4. The Hel and Fulla are already covered.

Both the Hel and Fulla have automatic switches when headphones are plugged in that mutes the rear outputs. While this is absolutely helpful and fine overall, I still think a manual switch would be better, if mainly because there may be some times when you use high gain for a headphone, and low gain on your speakers or other external devices. You may end up unplugging your headphones and find that your speakers are blaring way past your comfort level. I'm sure most people will exercise some caution and lower the volume before unplugging headphones. Just needed to bring that up.



*Sound*​
As solid state amps, I don't expect to hear a drastic difference between the Hel and Fulla 3 in terms of sonic characteristics. As such, I don't wanna make things up and write them down in a section full of hyperbole. I will say that the Fulla 3 sounds a little more dry, and thinner than the Hel, if just a smidge. It has a sharper bite to sounds compared to the Hel which sounds slightly more balanced. They both sound great, and do what I need them to do: provide my headphones with a nice, clean sound. That's all I need of them, and they both pass with flying colors. I don't have the tools to A/B compare and do blind tests to be fully confident of these statements. Take that as you will. I told y'all dac/amps aren't my field. 


*Amplification*​
As is expected, the Hel can provide quite a bit more power than the Fulla 3. 4x the power, so if you don't feel confident in powering your headphones with the Fulla 3's level of power, perhaps it's best to play it safe and go up one tier higher to the Hel, which should absolutely have enough power for practically any headphone outside of truly demanding headphones. The Fulla 3 however, is no slouch and can provide power and volume to a large majority of headphones. Having what Schiit states is 10 times the power of a typical headphone jack from a phone or laptop device, you can rest assured that the Fulla makes for a great portable headphone powering device.

Personally speaking, I'd likely recommend the Fulla with most headphones known to work well out of most devices, and perhaps go for the Hel if you find yourself with headphones known to scale or demand more. If I was getting something like a K702 or DT880/600ohm, I'd probably go for the Hel instead,.if I had to choose between the two devices.

I think ideally, the Fulla is for on the go or secondary setups with easier to drive headphones, and the Hel in a main setup with big boy headphones. As I only have easier to drive headphones at the moment, I can only speculate, but I'm confident in this.

In terms of gain selection from my tests with the HE400 (as my hardest to drive headphone at the moment), having set windows volume to 30% (for testing purposes) and adjusting volume on the Fulla and Hel, the Fulla provided a nice loud volume at 100%, while the Hel would've needed to switch to high gain, as 100% on low gain was less volume than the Fulla. That being said, the moment I changed to high gain, the Hel had quite a lot more headroom over the Fulla, as is to be expected. The Fulla has just one gain setting at 1.7x (4.6db), while the Hel has low at 1x (0db), and high at 5x (14db).

I think as far as gaming dac/amps go, the Hel likely stands as the most powerful of all, likely only challenged by the Creative X7 (which I don't quite know the power specs for).



*Microphone Input*​

I've never been very good with microphone recording or optimizations on PC. Hell, I can't even manage to get my Creative G6 to record at the moment. I planned to have three examples here, but I'll leave it at two. From my admittedly short testing, and lack of proper knowledge (I really just don't find myself using voice chat hardly ever), I found both the Fulla 3 and Hel's mic inputs to work exceedingly well for my purposes. I did find that the Fulla 3 was a lot more sensitive and could pick up my voice a lot more than the Hel, though I'm sure there's ways to mitigate that or have them perform on par in terms of vocal loudness. I do feel the Fulla may pick up external noises more than the Hel, but it may just be a clash of settings and optimizations again. Either way, here are the two mic tests, using Audacity with an Audeze Mobius with a V-moda BoomPro mic cable attached. I would simply just swap out the mic and set Audacity's default mic comunication to either the Hel or Fulla. Don't gauge performance here by how loud my voice is. That is user error, not a problem with either device.

Please excuse the heavy breathing. I've been in and out of perfect health the past few weeks, having lost my voice, and still recovering. I haven't been able to take a deep breath without coughing up a lung for a while now.

*Warning: May be a bit loud, so lower your volume before listening.*




Considering the physical mic gain on the Hel, I'd choose that every time, if voice chat is incredibly important to you. Nothing beats being able to adjust as simply as that.



*Personal Recommendations*​

The Fulla makes a perfect on the go transportable dac/amp for laptops. Can't ever underestimate the simplicity of having a small device that merely connects via usb, and gets full functionality. If you care even a little about your audio quality on the go, I can't think of a better dac/amp device than the Fulla, not even the Hel. It's small, simple, cheap, effective, and doesn't require external power. Toss it in your bag, and go.

The Hel is technically a superior product, but it requires external power, so I don't see it as versatile as the Fulla. I definitely see it is a perfect device for a home or office however. Considering it also has a manual mic gain adjustability, I'd keep it around even if you have better amps or dacs. It makes life so much simpler if you ever use microphones or headsets.


_(My unorthodox bedroom listening setup. As you can see, my PC is near my TV which acts as my monitor. My Magni/Modi/Hel is placed much closer to my seating position, which is further away than where the chair is placed in the image)_

As for connectivity, they're both mainly centered around USB for their ideal uses, so I hope in the future Schiit adds optical digital inputs on both to truly expand the scope of devices they can be used with. I know I'm repeating myself, but I really want this functionality to be something Schiit looks as a priority for the next iterations, especially for devices aimed for gamers. Gamers use consoles, and consoles mainly get their best audio from HDMI and optical digital outputs. You can easily just send one optical out from the TV to the dac, and it'd cover everything connected to the TV via HDMI. It really simplifies things immensely.



*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Fulla 3 Likes:*

Price
Size
Build
Top mounted volume knob (more of this, please)
Simple/Easy to use
Portability
Volume Gain
Mic input
Clean sound, no noise floor

*Fulla 3 Dislikes:*

Wobbly rear (needs spaced out rubber feet in the rear)
Limited connectivity (hoping for optical input in a future revision)
No 1/4" jack (preferred over 3.5mm. I think Fulla 2 had this right. Just include a 3.5mm adapter)


*Hel Likes:*

Build, Color
Good amount of power
Mic Gain knob (I'd be happy if more dac/amps had this)
Satisfying input and gain switches
1/4" jack
Red power indicator inside chassis
Top mounted volume knob (more of this, please)
Clean sound, no noise floor
Simple/easy to use
Plenty of gain

*Hel Dislikes:*

Limited connectivity (hoping for optical input in a future revision)
Not really a dislike, but a wish for next Hel to be oriented more like a Magni, where it's stack friendly



*Final Impressions*​
I remember a time when Schiit was vehemently against dacs and amplifiers sharing one body. Fast forward nearing the better part of a decade later, and we have Schiit releasing serious amplifiers with op-amps (something they were not about), and dac/amps in form of the Fulla, Hel, and even add-in dac cards for their bigger amplifiers. Schiit loves to stand out and do their own thing, but sometimes you can't avoid some trends due to their practicality and usability. They still stick to their design philosophies, but now can branch out and release things a bit more accommodating to others. I love that.

The Fulla is an easy sell. An affordable, excellent DAC/amp you can take anywhere which trumps anything you'd get out of a phone, tablet or computer's built in sound capabilities. This thing sells itself. Plenty for most available headphones or headsets that aren't known to require gobs of power. The type of headphones and headsets you'd likely be taking with you on the go to coffee shops, offices, or have in secondary setups. Really, the Fulla 3 is a banger of a product. Not much else to say. If you're getting into dac/amps, the Fulla 3 is an excellent starter and a bridge to Schiit's other offerings.

The Hel is an even more serious powerhouse of a product. More power, physical adjustment of microphone output, and easily capable as an all you need device, even in a main setup. I recommend the Hel over the Fulla for more serious audiophiles who are looking for a main dac/amp, one that is permanently fixed to your desk setup. The Fulla makes more sense to me as a secondary or portable device, as you only need to attach one cable, whereas the Hel demands power from the wall, making it a little less travel friendly.

For both devices, particularly the Hel, I believe once Schiit revises it and adds an optical input, it will be a serious contender as my most recommended dac/amp for unprocessed stereo gamers, as it will greatly expand its connectivity. Even us virtual surround users will be able to pipe audio digitally to the Hel. As always, I look forward to what Schiit has in store for us in the future.


----------



## adydula

Great review!!

I too am a Schitt fan and its great to see these guys be successful in many audio areas!

Alex


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## WhiteHartMart

Would love to get a Hel but a 'gaming' dac/amp is no good to me without optical in and PS4 chat support  Darn it


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## Yethal

Can microphone still be used if input is over analog and not usb (both plugged in but usb used only for mic) ?


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## Trancefreak

When it launched, I too was disappointed in the absence of a optical/coaxial in and lack of USB-C.
It would make it even more versatile.

@Mad Lust Envy Could you explain why you use a v-moda boom mic on your Mobius? Are you not content with the standard Mobius boom mic?
I'm asking because I have the Mobius and having a clear mic is important to me ( idealistically ). 
Next headphone would be a LCD-GX which uses the same boom mic as far as I can tell. 

Thanks!


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## TeeReQs (Dec 10, 2019)

Not sure if I'm late to the party, but did anybody see the new Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy?


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## San Man

@Mad Lust Envy    Question for you:  If using either for purely video play back on your desktop, do/did you experience any delay in audio from the accompanying video?   TIA


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 11, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Can microphone still be used if input is over analog and not usb (both plugged in but usb used only for mic) ?


Yes, as long as on pc you set the mic device to the Hel or Fulla, you can still use another dac for regular audio. I probably should've added that. That's how I was testing volume differences. Had my tv as the audio ouput, while switching between the Fulla and Hel as the mic output.

As for delay, never noticed any. Everything syncs just fine.


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## SierraMadre

Sony’s next PS will have their house 3D binauralisation solution and Xbox already offers Windows spatial, DTS headphone X and Dolby Atmos for Headphone so the lack of surround decoding/VSS shouldn’t deter too many from the HEL but for a small form factor portable solution the need for a wall wart instead of running off USB is a dealbreaker for me.

It’s a shame they didn’t make it an either / or proposition (i.e. can run off USB but plug in for more juice, if that’s practically possible in such a scenario). The HD800S’s are by far the most power hungry set of cans I own but even the usb power-only G6 and SXFI AMP have gallons of juice to spare when powering them directly. I can barely get into double digits volume with the G6 before it gets way too loud and even on the SXFI Amp I reach the ceiling of my tolerance before getting anywhere near high figures.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 11, 2019)

Volume =\= being driven well.

There's a difference. HD800 has like 800ohm spikes where an amp not driving them well will lead into the impact and dynamics will be lacking if and when those types of spikes happen. Will it make it sound weak in comparison to a well driven HD800.

An underdriven speaker can also distort in high volumes compared to then being supplied enough power.


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## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Volume =\= being driven well.
> 
> There's a difference. HD800 has like 800ohm spikes where an amp not driving them well will lead into the impact and dynamics will be lacking if and when those types of spikes happen. Will it make it sound weak in comparison to a well driven HD800.
> 
> An underdriven speaker can also distort in high volumes compared to then being supplied enough power.



+1

I can get my HD800S's loud enough with my Galaxy S10+ phone and Sound BlasterX G6 but it does not sound that good IMHO.


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## Yethal

TeeReQs said:


> Not sure if I'm late to the party, but did anybody see the new Magni 3+ and Magni Heresy?


Magni was a #1 recommendation for an amp here ever since they added variable out and a gain switch


SierraMadre said:


> Sony’s next PS will have their house 3D binauralisation solution and Xbox already offers Windows spatial, DTS headphone X and Dolby Atmos for Headphone so the lack of surround decoding/VSS shouldn’t deter too many from the HEL but for a small form factor portable solution the need for a wall wart instead of running off USB is a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> It’s a shame they didn’t make it an either / or proposition (i.e. can run off USB but plug in for more juice, if that’s practically possible in such a scenario). The HD800S’s are by far the most power hungry set of cans I own but even the usb power-only G6 and SXFI AMP have gallons of juice to spare when powering them directly. I can barely get into double digits volume with the G6 before it gets way too loud and even on the SXFI Amp I reach the ceiling of my tolerance before getting anywhere near high figures.


You can always connect the second usb port to a second usb port of your source device.

Also, the fact that they are loud enough doesn't mean they are properly driven. Power is so much more than just how loud headphones get


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## Mad Lust Envy

Think of it like a 100hp car going 100mph vs a 400hp car going 100mph. The quality of the ride and how its being stressed under the hood are not the same. They can both do it, but it's night and day.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 11, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Volume =\= being driven well.
> 
> There's a difference. HD800 has like 800ohm spikes where an amp not driving them well will lead into the impact and dynamics will be lacking if and when those types of spikes happen. Will it make it sound weak in comparison to a well driven HD800.
> 
> An underdriven speaker can also distort in high volumes compared to then being supplied enough power.



Already aware of all that but from a rhetorical perspective, at best all that means is the HEL might be a bit better for the HD800S’s than the G6. It does not automatically mean that the HD800S’s are underdriven by the G6 or that the HD800s will sound weak on the G6.

FWIW, my primary home setup includes a THX 789 (fed by SMSL SU8) so it’s not like I have zero experience of pairing the HD800s with an amplifier of decent power.

Also, I have very sensitive ears (I don’t mean in the “golden ears” sense, rather that my idea of high volume is far lower than most people I have ever met’s), so my idea of “sufficient volume”, let alone “loud” may be nowhere near the kind of levels you have in mind where distortion might occur.

In any case, haven’t noticed any distortion or negative impact on performance at the volumes I listen to thus far.


Yethal said:


> Magni was a #1 recommendation for an amp here ever since they added variable out and a gain switch
> 
> You can always connect the second usb port to a second usb port of your source device.
> 
> Also, the fact that they are loud enough doesn't mean they are properly driven. Power is so much more than just how loud headphones get


Doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t though either, does it? I am well aware volume is not the whole story but the fact that I can reach my volume tolerance at 13/100 on the HD800s with the G6 with no noticeable forms of distortion and without thinking, “gosh, this really lacks punch / dynamics / body / richness etc.”, tells me that it’s enough power for me personally not to spend another couple of hundred on the Schiit just because it might sound a bit better.

As for second USB, I don’t follow? I was lamenting the necessity of a wall wart rather than just a single cable usb power connection from the audio source device.


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## SierraMadre (Dec 11, 2019)

Lay. said:


> +1
> 
> I can get my HD800S's loud enough with my Galaxy S10+ phone and Sound BlasterX G6 but it does not sound that good IMHO.


Running them off my phone, tablet or portable media devices does sound lacking even if and when I can get loud enough. But my experience with the G6 is different from yours. My point is not only can I get loud enough but it’s not remotely a struggle and I’ve never felt “ah, distortion there” or “this thing could definitely do with more juice”, at least not with any of the content I have tried. 
That’s not to say the G6 / HD800S combo sounds as good as when paired with my THX 789 (of course it doesn’t), it’s not even saying that they wouldn’t sound better with the HEL than on the G6, it just says that I’m not convinced it would sound sufficiently better for me personally to ditch the G6, SXFI AMP etc. as my go to portable solution in favour of dropping another couple of hundred or so on the HEL particularly when a wall wart is required. Were it not for that particular factor though, I might well have bought one anyway out of curiosity and because I’ve never tried anything Schiit before and have always been intrigued.


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## Lay. (Dec 11, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> Running them off my phone, tablet or portable media devices does sound lacking even if and when I can get loud enough. But my experience with the G6 is different from yours. My point is not only can I get loud enough but it’s not remotely a struggle and I’ve never felt “ah, distortion there” or “this thing could definitely do with more juice”, at least not with any of the content I have tried.
> That’s not to say the G6 / HD800S combo sounds as good as when paired with my THX 789 (of course it doesn’t), it’s not even saying that they wouldn’t sound better with the HEL than on the G6, it just says that I’m not convinced it would sound sufficiently better for me personally to ditch the G6, SXFI AMP etc. as my go to portable solution in favour of dropping another couple of hundred or so on the HEL particularly when a wall wart is required. Were it not for that particular factor though, I might well have bought one anyway out of curiosity and because I’ve never tried anything Schiit before and have always been intrigued.



I feel that the HD800S with G6 sounds lean/dry, lackin dynamics, body and bass compared to the HDV820. Don't know how much of it is lack of power, pairing etc. I still use the G6 while gaming. G6 Optical out --> HDV820 --> HD800S


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## SierraMadre (Dec 11, 2019)

Lay. said:


> I feel that the HD800S with G6 sounds lean/dry, lackin dynamics, body and bass compared to the HDV820. Don't know how much of it is lack of power, pairing etc. I still use the G6 while gaming. G6 Optical out --> HDV820 --> HD800S


And I don’t doubt that whatsoever. Of course it would, because it’s not a remotely equivalent comparison. The HDV is a high end, arguably luxury, amp costing £2k+ that was not designed for portability and moreover was specifically made to complement the HD800 and HD800S . . . - versus the G6, a portable gaming dac/amp not designed around any specific headphone and costing around 1/20th of that price and probably less than 1/20th of the size.

Like I said, I don’t expect my G6 to match the performance  of my THX when paired with the HD800S and I certainly wouldn’t expect it to come anywhere close to a pairing with HDV820 because they are totally different classes of amp and that is reflected not only in its specs but obviously also in the vastly different price ranges they occupy. That doesn’t necessarily mean however that the HD800S’s are being underdriven by my G6, that I am experiencing and making do with sub-par performance or that I personally would perceive a night and day difference if I upgraded to a HEL.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t though either, does it? I am well aware volume is not the whole story but the fact that I can reach my volume tolerance at 13/100 on the HD800s with the G6 with no noticeable forms of distortion and without thinking, “gosh, this really lacks punch / dynamics / body / richness etc.”, tells me that it’s enough power for me personally not to spend another couple of hundred on the Schiit just because it might sound a bit better.
> 
> As for second USB, I don’t follow? I was lamenting the necessity of a wall wart rather than just a single cable usb power connection from the audio source device.


Well if they sound good to you then keep on enjoying them. But know there is an untapped potential hiding in there.
As for Hel, you can plug both usb cables into your source device, with one used only to provide power to Hel, it doesn't necessarily have to be a wallwart (as long as the usb port provides required power for Hel to operate).


----------



## mindbomb

You guys have fell for some headphone amp hype. Power is literally about loudness; there is an efficiency spec in decibels/milliwatt that tells you the ratio for a given headphone. You also have to worry about output impedance, noise and distortion, but I highly doubt these are significant factors with any of the devices mentioned so far.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 11, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Well if they sound good to you then keep on enjoying them. But know there is an untapped potential hiding in there.
> As for Hel, you can plug both usb cables into your source device, with one used only to provide power to Hel, it doesn't necessarily have to be a wallwart (as long as the usb port provides required power for Hel to operate).


I already acknowledged “untapped potential” in my previous posts when I alluded to having a THX AAA 789 and it being better than the G6, remember? I assume you’re not suggesting that the HEL can unlock (more) untapped potential in the HD800s that the THX cannot. . .!? ;-p

It’s the degree of untapped potential that the HEL might unlock in excess of the G6 that I am not sold on enough to fork out a couple of hundred more.

As for wall wart, pretty sure MLE’s review and if not that then the Schiit product page says it *needs* a wall wart suggesting usbx-only from source device would be insufficient. Are you saying that a PS, Xbox, laptop or whatever could power it with just a second USB cable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 11, 2019)

With the Hel, the usb needs to feed it 2.1amps. I don't know if there are many devices that give out that much through their usb ports.

Most tend to fall under 1.5amps maxed IIRC. I could be wrong.

This is why I stated it needs its specific wall wart. People will try to plug it to anything only to realize it ain't working up to spec.


----------



## TeeReQs

Yethal said:


> Magni was a #1 recommendation for an amp here ever since they added variable out and a gain switch



I realize that, and this thread is part of the reason why I owned the original as my first foray into higher end audio gear. I just saw they updated it, and added the Hersey to the line up, and was curious if anybody had tried the latest iteration.


----------



## Snikibiki

How much larger and wider is soundstage in HD800 than k701/ad700x?


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 13, 2019)

Just got an Earforce DSS2 out of curiosity and because they can currently be had brand new for just £20 on Amazon.

Gotta say, I’m mighty impressed with it for such a small, light and cheap device that was released in 2012.

Thus far have only tried it with the Fidelio X2s but have been impressed with the sound quality and particularly the holography of its VSS. The multiple speaker angle configs were a first I think for a gaming dac and with 6 possible speaker arrangements, AFAIK, it’s still the most in-line customisable implementation of VSS in a gaming device.

The only real caveats are power (not sure what the impedance range is but given its size and weight, I don’t imagine it will be enough for power hungry headphones) and the fact that it won’t take USB audio so PC users will need optical for any sound and Dolby digital encoding if they want to use its VSS so it’s definitely more suited to console use.


----------



## Playstation

So I am still looking for headphones that will be as comfortable as Sennheiser HD 5xx, if not as comfortable as Beyerdynamic 770 - 990. Comfort is very important. However, sound is also very important. Additionally. If I need any equalization to achieve more of a sound I am looking for. The headphones will need to be able to handle the EQ'ing in the lower frequencies. 

I do not recall ever doing a side by side comparison of two headphones. One with forward mids, and the other that favors bass and treble. Unfortunately. 

You might be curious about my budget. As a console gamer. I am of the mind that anything over $300 is excessive. This does not include the cost of any amp/mixamp. So, no, the HD 650's are out of the question. Besides, I might be leaning toward a closed-back headphone. However, I am not convinced that a V shaped sound is for me.

 A previous poster suggested V moda, though I would be concerned about comfort. I bought the CAL's, though they sound decent, they are uncomfortable. I am afraid I would be getting into the same situation with the V moda headphones. 

 I have been considering the AKG's. Though, I am wary, as the OP has warned about the downward force of the headband. Also, it's unclear what the mids are comparable to, apart from other AKG headphones he has listed here. Are the mids of AKG's as recessed as Beyerdynamic ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 13, 2019)

Fidelio X2... if you're open to open backed.

Closed... Hmmm so few that I can think of, as in none...


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Fidelio X2... if you're open to open backed.
> 
> Closed... Hmmm so few that I can think of, as in none...



I wonder why they went with those pads. they look itchy. If they truly sit over/around the ear, I guess it wouldn't matter. Thanks


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 14, 2019)

Playstation said:


> I wonder why they went with those pads. they look itchy. If they truly sit over/around the ear, I guess it wouldn't matter. Thanks


The X2s are a great recommendation. Velour is common among enthusiast open-backed headphones because of its comfort and audio properties. They tend not to get as hot as leather / pleather pads, and are more conducive to an open sound stage. They won’t be “itchy” unless you have an allergy or skin particularly sensitive to microfibre materials. With the X2, unless you have humongous ears you don’t need to worry about them not sitting “truly over/around the ear”, the cup apertures are very big.

If you are set on closed back, have a look at Sennheiser’s gaming line (GSP300 etc.) or if you want to economise then a Hyper X Cloud will give you great performance relative to a cheap and cheerful price.


----------



## Yethal

Finally picked up GSP670. So far pretty good. Will post some longer impressions once I spend some more hours with it.

 
@Evshrug is Dekoni going to release pads for GSP 670 anytime soon?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Interesting, looking forward to your impressions.


----------



## DekoniAudio (Dec 14, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Finally picked up GSP670. So far pretty good. Will post some longer impressions once I spend some more hours with it.
> 
> @Evshrug is Dekoni going to release pads for GSP 670 anytime soon?



Never say never!
... but not in the next few months.




Playstation said:


> I wonder why they went with those pads. they look itchy. If they truly sit over/around the ear, I guess it wouldn't matter. Thanks



Hey PlayStation!
Not to tell you which headphone to buy, but we thought we’d chime in since we know a thing or two about headphone pads. Those Phillips (and many others) use Velour material on the surface, which feels similar to a blanket on your skin, fortunately not prickly with stuff hairs like Velvet. The Philips pads are indeed large enough to fit around most people’s ears to rest on the head without putting any pressure on the ears themselves. It’s a fine option, but full disclosure: we don’t make pads for them (but a couple other accessories!).

If you do decide to go for the AKGs mentioned earlier, we do make a number of accessories meant to help those: Velour pads with a tighter weave and higher thread count than the stock pads (think again about blankets and sheets, and how a higher thread count is usually softer, which was our goal!), or alternative materials like Sheepskin or Protein Leather. One of our colleagues is also a gamer with a long history with the AKGs, and he uses our Nuggets to solve the hard-headband discomfort. So, if you did go that route, those are a few things which might “complete” the package and suit your preferences.


----------



## ronfifer

Question: On my laptop, if i use USB port>DAC>AMP>Headphone, will i still be able to activate windows sonic, or Dolby atmos for headphone by right clicking on the sound icon in the taskbar? Disaster if not.


----------



## SierraMadre

ronfifer said:


> Question: On my laptop, if i use USB port>DAC>AMP>Headphone, will i still be able to activate windows sonic, or Dolby atmos for headphone by right clicking on the sound icon in the taskbar? Disaster if not.


Yes.


----------



## Drizz1e

I just recently bought a Soundblaster G6 and I'm a bit confused as to whether or not it's actually set up properly. I'm using it on my PC with SBX turned on and 7.1 enabled in the Creative settings, but the Dolby light never comes on. In Resident Evil 2, I've tried using all of the different options (Dolby Atmos, headphones, TV, 7.1 surround sound) but I never get any indication that it's actually giving me proper virtual surround. Am I just out of luck if the game doesn't give me a proper Dolby signal?


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 15, 2019)

Drizz1e said:


> I just recently bought a Soundblaster G6 and I'm a bit confused as to whether or not it's actually set up properly. I'm using it on my PC with SBX turned on and 7.1 enabled in the Creative settings, but the Dolby light never comes on. In Resident Evil 2, I've tried using all of the different options (Dolby Atmos, headphones, TV, 7.1 surround sound) but I never get any indication that it's actually giving me proper virtual surround. Am I just out of luck if the game doesn't give me a proper Dolby signal?


Whether the G6 is rendering virtual surround sound or not does not revolve around Dolby Digital per se. Rather Dolby Digital 5.1 is merely the only licensed encoded surround format it can decode for conversion into multichannel virtual surround sound. This is important for the current generation of consoles as they can only output multichannel surround via HDMI or optical. Unlike PC, they can't output multichannel PCM surround via USB. Optical is limited to bitstreaming 5.1 Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1. Thus, for console, an optical connection is the only way to get any form of discrete multichannel surround to the G6. The G6 can then decode this Dolby Digital (but not DTS as it can't decode that) and convert it into virtual surround sound via its SBX algorithm.

PCs on the other hand can send multichannel PCM over USB provided they have a capable sound card or motherboard soundchip. Your G6 acts as an external sound card and supports multichannel PCM input of upto 7.1 over usb and  Creative's SBX solution is accordingly capable of processing multichannel PCM of upto 7.1 channels and converting it into virtual surround. The audio of the vast majority of PC games is output in PCM. The reason why the Dolby light is not coming on for you is because your G6 is not being fed Dolby Digital, it is being fed PCM, which is as it should be.

Engage the SBX button, this turns on any SBX features that your G6's current active SBX profile has engaged, so check your profile in the Sound Blaster control app to see that you have the virtual surround dial engaged and at a level you want it. Note that many of the various packaged-in / supplied presets/profiles have surround off or at very low levels (e.g. 10/100).
Also, ensure that if a game's audio options have a true / discrete / non-virtual surround option, that that is turned *on* (SBX VSS's raison d'etre is to take discrete multichannel signals intended for speakers and convert them into vss). If there is no such option, don't worry. If on the other hand, there is a *virtual* surround option, or a 'headphones' option, then leave it *off* if you want SBX VSS or turn it on and leave SBX off, otherwise you would be stacking two different virtual surround solutions.


----------



## Playstation

SierraMadre said:


> The X2s are a great recommendation. Velour is common among enthusiast open-backed headphones because of its comfort and audio properties. They tend not to get as hot as leather / pleather pads, and are more conducive to an open sound stage. They won’t be “itchy” unless you have an allergy or skin particularly sensitive to microfibre materials. With the X2, unless you have humongous ears you don’t need to worry about them not sitting “truly over/around the ear”, the cup apertures are very big.
> 
> If you are set on closed back, have a look at Sennheiser’s gaming line (GSP300 etc.) or if you want to economise then a Hyper X Cloud will give you great performance relative to a cheap and cheerful price.



The GSP's look amazing. Thanks




DekoniAudio said:


> Hey PlayStation!
> Not to tell you which headphone to buy, but we thought we’d chime in since we know a thing or two about headphone pads. Those Phillips (and many others) use Velour material on the surface, which feels similar to a blanket on your skin, fortunately not prickly with stuff hairs like Velvet. The Philips pads are indeed large enough to fit around most people’s ears to rest on the head without putting any pressure on the ears themselves. It’s a fine option, but full disclosure: we don’t make pads for them (but a couple other accessories!).
> 
> If you do decide to go for the AKGs mentioned earlier, we do make a number of accessories meant to help those: Velour pads with a tighter weave and higher thread count than the stock pads (think again about blankets and sheets, and how a higher thread count is usually softer, which was our goal!), or alternative materials like Sheepskin or Protein Leather. One of our colleagues is also a gamer with a long history with the AKGs, and he uses our Nuggets to solve the hard-headband discomfort. So, if you did go that route, those are a few things which might “complete” the package and suit your preferences.



I've owned the X1's. I guess it's just the couple of pictures I've seen of the X2's, they just looked different. I love velour. Thanks for the heads up. Also, know of any pads that might fit the Creative Aurvana Live headphones?


----------



## Yethal (Dec 15, 2019)

GSP 670 impressions after 24 hours of use:

This will not contain sound impressions as those require much more than 24 hours to fully assess

Comfort
There are two sliders on the headband that regulate how much clamp the headband has. At first I found the GSP 670 to be too clampy, after I lowered the clampiness to minimum it became very comfy. It's not that heavy (although keep in mind I'm a Focal user so I'm accustomed to heavy headphones) and the weight is evenly distributed.

GSP 670 shows up as two different audio devices under Windows (one main audio device and one communications device). Thanks to that we can use a slider on the right cup to manipulate game/voice chat balance (just like the Mixamps).
Microphone can be muted by simply raising the arm past a certain threshold (just like on PC37X) which is nice.
Headset's volume isn't tied to the system volume so the risk of accidentally blasting your ears off because an app forced maximum system volume is nonexistent.
There is an audible hiss present during silent moments, loud enough to be annoying but it disappears into the background as soon as the game/movie/whatever finishes loading
*Moreover the signal is distorted as all hell. Doesn't matter whether it's 2.0 or 7.1, game or music, there is very loud digital distortion present in the signal. Honestly I'm considering returning it because the issue is so annoying.* Both dongle and headset firmware have been updated. I don't know what's the cause here, at first I thought it's because of interference from my controller (Sennheiser dongle uses 2.4Ghz frequency, the same as Bluetooth) but this doesn't happen on PS4 (which also uses Bluetooth for controller connection). This is a critical issue and until a permanent solution is found I cannot recommend anyone to buy this headset.
Last but not least, the headset requires custom Pulse Audio profile in order to work correctly on Linux. I realize I'm one of like three people on Earth having this problem but it's still a nuisance that could've been avoided.
Update: Distortion occurs only when the dongle is plugged into my desktop which further reinforces my hypothesis that it's caused by interference from other wireless devices in close proximity.


----------



## illram

Drizz1e said:


> I just recently bought a Soundblaster G6 and I'm a bit confused as to whether or not it's actually set up properly. I'm using it on my PC with SBX turned on and 7.1 enabled in the Creative settings, but the Dolby light never comes on. In Resident Evil 2, I've tried using all of the different options (Dolby Atmos, headphones, TV, 7.1 surround sound) but I never get any indication that it's actually giving me proper virtual surround. Am I just out of luck if the game doesn't give me a proper Dolby signal?


Everything SierraMadre said, plus to be extra sure you can check your windows audio device settings to make sure windows is outputting 7.1 when SBX is on. (it should automatically switch but just in case).

Right click volume, open sound settings, click on sound control panel, click on G6, click on configure.

The best way to try it is to see if you can hear rear cues. You should hear them clearly. (I like to open up a private match in Call of Duty and do things like throw a grenade, and turn around and see if it sounds like it explodes behind me, things like that.) I never found the windows chimes in the configure panel to be that good of an example.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 16, 2019)

Playstation said:


> The GSP's look amazing. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You got rid of the Fidelio X1's and then got the CALs? The CALs are a fine pair of budget enthusiast cans but they are not usually regarded as being in the same class as the X1 or X2 for gaming and movies, let alone better.

 In any case, the X2 is generally regarded as an iterative upgrade over the original X1 rather than a reinvention, so if you didn't like the X1s enough to keep them then the X2s may not be for you.

Another closed back option that you might want to consider is the Audio Technica AG1X. Its MSRP used to be pretty expensive but at least here in the UK, most of the online prices appear to be around half the original MSRP give or take, so I'd be surprised if you couldn't find similar over the pond if you shopped around.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> GSP 670 impressions after 24 hours of use:
> 
> This will not contain sound impressions as those require much more than 24 hours to fully assess
> 
> ...


These wireless cans are closed back but FWIW, have been getting very good reviews. Not sure whether it uses a branded 3D VSS solution or an in-house solution from AT, probably the latter as I haven't come across any mentions of the usual suspects. Might be worth a try if you give up on the 670s

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/9b4fb5b51d3be65a/index.html


----------



## halcyon (Dec 16, 2019)

Has anybody tested the* Dirac 3D audio HD / 7.1* positional algo on any of th products?

AFAIK, it's not available (yet) on stand-alone soundcards (USB or otherwise), but it can be tested in the very cheap *Tritton Kunai Pro 7.1 (2019)* USB-headphones:

https://www.dirac.com/news/3d-audio-gaming-headset-ces2019

This is one of the 3D Audio virtualization (not true 3DPA) algos that I've yet to hear myself out of the ones still on the market.

If it's decent, one could perhaps buy the cheap Kunai and hack the USB-sound-card dongle to work with othe (easy to drive) headphones.

Dirac Research supposedly also released a downloadable Dirac 3D audio processor software perhaps titled Dirac Sensaround (can't keep up to date with all their marketing titles) in June of 2019, but I can't find it anywhere, only mentions at their website:

https://www.dirac.com/3d-audio
https://www.dirac.com/sensaround

Anybody tried any Dirac 3D audio?

If anybody's interested in 3D audio, they are also showing at CES 2020:

https://www.dirac.com/ces2020


----------



## headphonesonly

halcyon said:


> Has anybody tested the* Dirac 3D audio HD / 7.1* positional algo on any of th products?
> 
> AFAIK, it's not available (yet) on stand-alone soundcards (USB or otherwise), but it can be tested in the very cheap *Tritton Kunai Pro 7.1 (2019)* USB-headphones:
> 
> ...


The monoprice thx dac/amp has this but it only works as a stereo expander.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Beta Creative G6 firmware now available enabling Voice/Game balance for PS4  

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...hat_balance_for_sound_blaster_g6_on_ps4_beta/

I've received a G3 for testing today also - although first impressions are not amazing (as expected/feared tbh) I'm prepared to give it some hours and compare it to the G6 I have.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Looks very intriguing. I'll wait until it's out of beta before updating the guide.


----------



## inseconds99

Does anyone have a picture of a modmic or modmic wireless attached to a Hifiman Arya/Ananda/XX/1000? Is it even possible to attach the mic? Any issues with the magnets?


----------



## TeeReQs

I don't have any experience using it on those headphones, but want to say that I love my wireless modmic for my HD800. So much better than my old wire mod mic, and worth the extra cost of admission IMO.


----------



## ronfifer

I hope more users can answer the modmic question 2 posts above before I interject with my own question:

My laptop is specced with a built-in HiFi Sabre DAC with SPDIF and 3.5mm outputs, does that mean I can plug in my new external amp directly to my laptop without risking double amping? Or is it preferable to go the USB port>external DAC>external AMP route?


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Dec 17, 2019)

Well the G3 is the disappointment we all expected and imo a bit of an insult to console gamers!

Needs the PS4 to be set to PCM and has no VSS as far as I'm aware.  Tried with a pair of Beyer Tygr 300 and it just lacks drive/power compared to the G6. Audio is just flat compared - this thing would struggle with anything remotely difficult to drive (my Macbook Pro does a far better job!)

Then tried it with my ModMic Uni - seems it doesn't have a great Mic input also - ModMic sound horrible and muffled compared to plugging it into the G6.

The device itself is an awful 'stereotypical' gaming dongle - cheap and tacky with rattling buttons - just awful.

Now the G6 has Voice/Game chat balance (which works great on first test) I can't see why anyone who likes good audio would not spend a few quid more for the G6.  If that device had the Mobile Command centre compatibility it would be the perfect console device imho.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 17, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> I hope more users can answer the modmic question 2 posts above before I interject with my own question:
> 
> My laptop is specced with a built-in HiFi Sabre DAC with SPDIF and 3.5mm outputs, does that mean I can plug in my new external amp directly to my laptop without risking double amping? Or is it preferable to go the USB port>external DAC>external AMP route?


USB and optical out are both digital, so if you have an external dac that has optical in, you won't even have to worry about anything in your laptop since it won't be doing anything other than sending a digital signal to your dac. If you use the 3.5mm as a headphone or analog out, then yeah, you'll be double amping. That is, unless it specifically states it's a line out, where you'll use just the dac part of your laptop. I just don't know since laptops take some odd approaches into funneling audio at times.

What can be said is that external dacs > internal ones. Just because a dac chip of a specific caliber is used, doesn't mean the implementation is going to be good. You can have $100 dacs using the same dac chip as a $50000 dac, and it be night and day.


----------



## halcyon

headphonesonly said:


> The monoprice thx dac/amp has this but it only works as a stereo expander.



Ok, so *Dirac Sensaround *seems to be just a phase-shift stereo input -> distorted stereo output "stereo image" widener.

Then again, apparently the *Dirac 3D Audio* is a different software and can take in multi-channel (up to 7.1) input and virtualize it to "3D stereo" soundscape (like CMSS-3D, SBX Studio Pro, Sennheiser GSX, etc).

Can't seem to find any other products for it, other than the Tritton Kunai Pro 7.1 (2019) headset.


----------



## Playstation

On the topic of open backs. Does anyone know how the X2 and the HD6XX's compare to each other?


----------



## headphonesonly

Playstation said:


> On the topic of open backs. Does anyone know how the X2 and the HD6XX's compare to each other?


X2 are bassy and wide but vague imaging. 6xx are neutral and narrow with more accurate imaging. 6xx are also more detailed.


----------



## SierraMadre

I’d say “vague” imaging is a bit harsh. It’s not absolute precision, sure, but it’s still good overall.


----------



## SierraMadre

Has anyone tried the Massdrop Eddie Current ZDT Junior tube amp  for immersive gaming / movie watching?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Dec 19, 2019)

*Game/Chat balance for Sound Blaster G6 on PS4*

BETA FIRMWARE https://creative.box.com/s/965kkhjhvfn6r19a2log4n1qgxsann5x

Nintendo Switch will be supported in the next beta firmware scheduled next week.

Also:



> *Does this firmware also adress the problem that on ps4 on every start or quit of a game the microfon stops working until power cycling the g6?*
> 
> 
> Creative_DevSupport:
> ...






Spoiler: Firmware Notes and Setup Guide



The Creative Dev Team has a new firmware that supports Game/Chat balance for Sound Blaster G6 on PS4. This firmware is currently under testing and we would like to offer this firmware to the reddit community who are interested in helping us test it. The interactions are derived based on consideration for the overall usability and to maintain the current UI operations. Please email all of your feedback to socialmedia@creativelabs.com.

Nintendo Switch will be supported in the next beta firmware scheduled next week.

This feature is not supported on PC. Interaction and visual indications are not available when connected to a host computer.

*Connectivity/Setup*


Connect PS4/Pro's Optical-Out to G6's Optical-In


Connect PS4/Pro's USB to G6's USB


On PS4/Pro setup menu, goto Settings > Sound & Screen > Audio Output Settings, set Primary Output Port to Digital-Out (Optical), you may choose to output either PCM or Dolby Digital for Audio Format


Goto Devices > Audio Devices, set Output to Headphones to Chat Audio
The above steps will configure PS4/Pro to output it's game audio through its SPDIF-Out and Voice chat thru USB. This will result in two independent audio stream that the G6 can attenuate individually.

*Visual Indication*


In Game/Chat Mode, Volume Knob LED will become PINK.


RGB LED one the "X" logo will be of the following colors and animation
- GREEN - Both Optical-In and USB Audio are balance at 100% of last set volume
- CYAN - Chat Audio at max, Game Audio adjusted lower than Chat Audio, if blinking CYAN -> Game Audio adjusted to minimum
- ORANGE - Game Audio at max, Chat Audio adjusted lower than Game Audio, if blinking ORANGE -> Chat Audio adjusted to minimum
*Interaction*


When connected to PS4, G6 will start up in Master Volume Control Mode.


Press and hold Volume Knob to switch to Side Tone Mode (RED Volume LED)


Press and hold Volume Knob again to switch to Game/Chat Mode (PINK Volume LED)


Press and hold Volume Knob again to switch to Master Volume Control Mode


When in Game/Chat Mode:
- Turn Volume Knob left to gradually lower Chat Audio (ORANGE COLOR)
- Turn volume knob right to gradually lower Game Audio (CYAN COLOR)
- Double click on Volume Knob to set to center balance (GREEN), where both game and Chat Audio are balanced at 100%.
- Single click on Volume Knob to mute master volume (Volume LED will blink)
- Game/Chat mode will always default to BALANCED (GREEN) when first accessed in PS4.
- Scout and SBX mode are operational, and will apply on both game audio and chat audio.
*Audio Format*


Audio format supported can be PCM or encoded Dolby Digital stream.


If content is Dolby Digital, the Dolby LED indicator on the side of G6 will light up.
*Other Fixes*


Fixed, RGB LED not able to turn off/on in SB Connect


Improve power management after inactivity for prolong time


Fixed slow boot up on MSI MEG Z390 ACE system


Fixed Line-in unable to umute when at maximum level


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Fegefeuer said:


> *Game/Chat balance for Sound Blaster G6 on PS4*
> 
> BETA FIRMWARE https://creative.box.com/s/965kkhjhvfn6r19a2log4n1qgxsann5x
> 
> ...




Have you tested it - I posted about it here back on the 16th December and have been running with it since.  Voice/Game balance works well in my testing so far.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'll be interested to pick it up once it's out of beta. I'm not currently playing any multiplayer games and nobody's ever online to chat while I'm playing my single player games, so I'll wait to confirm that any bugs are squashed before updating.


----------



## SnakeEyes13NIN

Hello, 

I am using a Astro A40 mixamp pro tr with my Xbox One X. And am wondering how to set up the Schiit hel with this set up that I already have. I have the HD 990 Pro headsets with a boom mic. Cheers.


----------



## Yethal

SnakeEyes13NIN said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am using a Astro A40 mixamp pro tr with my Xbox One X. And am wondering how to set up the Schiit hel with this set up that I already have. I have the HD 990 Pro headsets with a boom mic. Cheers.


Don't. Xbox one does not support usb audio for any device other than Astro Mixamp so the dac/adc section of Hel would be totally wasted here (unless you plan on using it as an amp only and plugging the usb into a pc for chat)


----------



## SierraMadre

Anyone tried this? New revision of the Mayflower Arc gaming dac/amp.
 Has optical-in and wall wart is optional/unnecessary for most sources.

https://mayflowerelectronics.com/arc-mk2/


----------



## PurpleAngel

SnakeEyes13NIN said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am using a Astro A40 mixamp pro tr with my Xbox One X. And am wondering how to set up the Schiit Hel with this set up that I already have. I have the HD 990 Pro headsets with a boom mic. Cheers.


HD 990 Por headset?
Do you mean Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250-Ohm headphones?
About the only way you could use the Schiit Hel, with a Mix-amp, is as an add-on headphone amplifier.
So connect the Mix-amp's headphone output jack, to the line-input, on the Hel.
And max out the volume setting on the Xbox and the Mix-amp, to feed a strong signal to the Hel.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Anyone tried this? New revision of the Mayflower Arc gaming dac/amp.
> Has optical-in and wall wart is optional/unnecessary for most sources.
> 
> https://mayflowerelectronics.com/arc-mk2/


Stereo only and $70 more than Hel so what's the point, optical is not an advantage if it doesn't accept 5.1 DD.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 20, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Stereo only and $70 more than Hel so what's the point, optical is not an advantage if it doesn't accept 5.1 DD.



The point is MLE lamented the lack of an optical in for the HEL because it meant that for current console usage scenarios there is no means of using a separate VSS device to push a pre-mixed digital VSS signal to the HEL. An optical in in this scenario allows for that possibility.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> 3.5mm analog input - for when you want to use the Fulla just as an amplifier. Not sure I see many use cases for this, which is why I would've taken a digital toslink/optical input instead, if possible.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> a digital toslink/spdif optical input would've greatly added to the Fulla and Hel's functionality where it counts





Mad Lust Envy said:


> For both devices, particularly the Hel, I believe once Schiit revises it and adds an optical input, it will be a serious contender as my most recommended dac/amp for unprocessed stereo gamers, as it will greatly expand its connectivity. Even us virtual surround users will be able to pipe audio digitally to the Hel.



It’s curious that you would dismiss the notion given your own exchange with MLE on the matter . . .



Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you guys wanna do me a solid, head on over to the Asgard 3 thread, and let them know what a good idea it would be for the Asgard 3 to have an add in card with an optical/spdif input instead of usb input, considering how we can hook up literally anything and everything we use with optical, as opposed to usb which is much more limited.





Yethal said:


> I asked Jason Stoddard for an s/pdif card back when Jotunheim was released and he said that they don't want to have another SKU for like ten people that would buy it. Back in Modi 1 when Modi was USB only they made a separate version called Modi optical (which I used to own) and according to Jason they didn't sell at all.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> The point is MLE lamented the lack of an optical in for the HEL because it meant that for current console usage scenarios there is no means of using a separate VSS device to push a pre-mixed digital VSS signal to the HEL. An optical in in this scenario allows for that possibility.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah but in order to use optical for that you'd need to have either an X7 or a G6 both of which have console-compaible mic inputs (X7 with a BT-W2) so the Arc's featureset is redundant considering it doesn't have Hel's superior mic input or Asgard 3 power output.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 20, 2019)

Yethal said:


> Yeah but in order to use optical for that you'd need to have either an X7 or a G6 both of which have console-compaible mic inputs (X7 with a BT-W2) so the Arc's featureset is redundant considering it doesn't have Hel's superior mic input or Asgard 3 power output.



Correct me if I’m wrong but the HEL doesn’t have the Asgard’s power output either. . . And on the mic-side, if we are to dismiss the Arc because the G6 and X7 already have console compatible mic inputs then again, that discounts the HEL too.

You may not see a use case / advantage over the HEL *for you* but that doesn’t mean there’s no use case / advantage over the HEL for anybody else whatsoever. Yes, the Arc is more expensive but fact remains this solves the lack of optical lamented by MLE and also doesn’t require a wall wart.
The benefit of optical is not limited to use with a Creative device for SBX either. E.g. if an Xbox user wanted to feed pre-mixed Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X or Windows Sonic to the Arc as uncompressed PCM direct from the Xbox via optical, they can, no G6 or X7 or intermediate dac would be required. Can’t do that with the HEL because no optical in. Sure, it would require mic adapters or work arounds but a) not every use case requires a mic (single player, movies, tv etc.) and b) any such work arounds would also be required for the HEL.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit.  Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro).  I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering.  I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.

The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 20, 2019)

WhiteHartMart said:


> For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit.  Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro).  I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering.  I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.
> 
> The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)


I would think that the HEL will become a more suitable accessory for your needs and plenty others’ next year with the release of the new consoles. Hopefully the Xbox will have usb audio, if not for discrete multichannel purposes then at least stereo audio and chat that would allow for the various supported headphone spatial formats (Atmos, DTS X, Windows sonic) to be pushed to the HEL. On Sony’s side, they obviously already support usb stereo and chat so hopefully they will take a leaf out of MS’s book and allow their in-house 3D sound format to be pushed over USB to an external dac/amp too


----------



## WhiteHartMart

SierraMadre said:


> I would think that the HEL will become a more suitable accessory for your needs and plenty others’ next year with the release of the new consoles. Hopefully the Xbox will have usb audio, if not for discrete multichannel purposes then at least stereo audio and chat that would allow for the various supported headphone spatial formats (Atmos, DTS X, Windows sonic) to be pushed to the HEL. On Sony’s side, they obviously already support usb stereo and chat so hopefully they will take a leaf out of MS’s book and allow their in-house 3D sound format to be pushed over USB to an external dac/amp too



Yea, next gen will open up more options.  Sadly though, the Schiit doesn't work at all over PS4 USB so regardless of the console implementation, it needs some of the DAC/Amp manufacturers to ensure their products work with consoles also it seems.  Think some assume us console gamers just want to use cheap plastic audio accessories with flashing lights


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Correct me if I’m wrong but the HEL doesn’t have the Asgard’s power output either. . . And on the mic-side, if we are to dismiss the Arc because the G6 and X7 already have console compatible mic inputs then again, that discounts the HEL too.
> 
> You may not see a use case / advantage over the HEL *for you* but that doesn’t mean there’s no use case / advantage over the HEL for anybody else whatsoever. Yes, the Arc is more expensive but fact remains this solves the lack of optical lamented by MLE and also doesn’t require a wall wart.
> The benefit of optical is not limited to use with a Creative device for SBX either. E.g. if an Xbox user wanted to feed pre-mixed Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X or Windows Sonic to the Arc as uncompressed PCM direct from the Xbox via optical, they can, no G6 or X7 or intermediate dac would be required. Can’t do that with the HEL because no optical in. Sure, it would require mic adapters or work arounds but a) not every use case requires a mic (single player, movies, tv etc.) and b) any such work arounds would also be required for the HEL.


HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.



WhiteHartMart said:


> For me personally, not providing console support is a major disappointment from Schiit.  Would have jumped at the Hel if it had compatibility (both from a USB and Optical point of view with my PS4 Pro).  I have a G6 but have recently been playing BF5 only and actually prefer the in game software '3d surround' audio option over the Creative SBX offering.  I can see the next gen of consoles next year having much more dedicated audio hardware/software solutions so for me I just want a top notch DAC/Amp with a Mic input that is console compatible.
> 
> The Hel would have delivered that perfectly (potentially at a saving to the ARC 2 option also.)


If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yethal said:


> HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.
> 
> 
> If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.



That would be great other than the Hel (nor the Fulla 3) doesn't work with PS4 via USB either. Doesn't support the USB standard the PS4 uses apparantly


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Opinions on the G3 I am testing have changed a little - it seems it just needs to pair with certain, easy to drive, headphones/headsets.  With my Game Ones its more than passable, can drive them to more than high enough volumes and allows the mic to work ok.  Certainly far better with that set up than with the ModMic/Headphone route I went for the previous test.


----------



## Snikibiki (Dec 21, 2019)

How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Snikibiki said:


> How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?


Sound Stage term is usually referred to for music, Surround Sound term is more for gaming or movies.
I'm going to guess the AKG K701 has a wider sound stage, then the other two.


----------



## Lay.

Snikibiki said:


> How much +/- larger, wider, deeper soundstage is on hd800 compared to k701 or ad700x?



https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/sennheiser-hd-800-s-vs-akg-k701/290/326

Look for the soundstage comparison...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like the metrics they have for stuff like soundstage. You can't just put a number to something like that.

I love rtings for their tv stuff. Not so much for the audio. So much of audio is utterly subjective, and these data points don't amount to much.


----------



## themrmikemcd (Dec 22, 2019)

Quick math question: Would PS4 pro+ optical to fio e10k+ fio e12+ 80 ohm DT770s or Vokyl Erupt headphones =Winning?  Or is that over kill or would that not all connect?  Would anyone be so kind as to help this poor ignorant soul out so that I don't waste my money lol. I already own the fio e12. Just looking for a good dac to pair it with that's in the 100ish price range. Would the g6 be a significant upgrade over the e10k SOUND wise?  Just for fun gaming not for footsteps or competitive gaming. Thank you!!


----------



## headphonesonly

themrmikemcd said:


> Quick math question: Would PS4 pro+ optical to fio e10k+ fio e12+ 80 ohm DT770s or Vokyl Erupt headphones =Winning?  Or is that over kill or would that not all connect?  Would anyone be so kind as to help this poor ignorant soul out so that I don't waste my money lol. I already own the fio e12. Just looking for a good dac to pair it with that's in the 100ish price range. Would the g6 be a significant upgrade over the e10k SOUND wise?  Just for fun gaming not for footsteps or competitive gaming. Thank you!!


E10k doesn’t have an optical input so that wont work. Why not plug the e12 into the controller


----------



## themrmikemcd

headphonesonly said:


> E10k doesn’t have an optical input so that wont work. Why not plug the e12 into the controller


Oh, I thought it did. Doh!  well thanks for the info. I didnt think the controller had a very good dac inside to use it that way.


----------



## SierraMadre (Dec 22, 2019)

Yethal said:


> HEL doesn't have the power output of Asgard 3 but it does have superior mic input. Either of those two devices brings some improvement over the G6 which ARC does not.
> 
> 
> If you prefer the in game surround then just plug Hel via USB and set headphone output to All Audio. Unless you're playing on Xbox in which case blame Microsoft for going full Apple with their USB accessories.


Oh? I thought it was all about the HEL being a ‘significant upgrade in audio’ over the G6. . .? Now it’s about the mic input?

If you’re going to claim the increased power makes the HEL worth getting instead of or on top of the G6 then how does the same not apply to the Arc 2 which has very similar audio specs to the Hel? But ok, superior mic input. . . That is indeed an advantage. But fact remains it has no optical, doesn’t work with either console anyway and wall wart is mandatory rather than optional. Those may be negligible considerations for you, doesn’t necessarily mean that has to be the case for everybody else.

Accordingly, the G6 instead of the HEL (and instead of the Ark too) is enough for me personally - as previously stated and I stand by that. . . But I don’t necessarily expect or require that to be the case for everybody else. I wasn’t presenting it as a ‘must have’, I simply asked if anybody had tried it and observed that it had some of the things MLE had lamented the absence of in the HEL.
The way you’re trying to finesse the comparison in favour of the HEL so that anything the HEL lacks in comparison is pointless anyway while anything the Arc 2 lacks is significant and worthwhile suggests your quickness to scoff at and dismiss the mere suggestion of it has more to do with one unit being Schiit and the other not. . .


----------



## Yethal (Dec 22, 2019)

SierraMadre said:


> Oh? I thought it was all about the HEL being a ‘significant upgrade in audio’ over the G6. . .? Now it’s about the mic input?
> 
> If you’re going to claim the increased power makes the HEL worth getting instead of or on top of the G6 then how does the same not apply to the Arc 2which has very similar audio specs to the Hel? But ok, superior mic input. . . That is indeed an advantage. But fact remains it has no optical, doesn’t work with either console anyway and wall wart is mandatory rather than optional. Those may be negligible considerations for you, doesn’t necessarily mean that has to be the case for everybody else.
> 
> Accordingly  while the G6 instead of the HEL (and instead of the Ark too) is enough for me personally - and I stand by that - I don’t necessarily expect or require that to be the case for everybody else. I wasn’t presenting it as a must have, I simply asked if anybody had tried it and observed that it had some of the things MLE had lamented the absence of in the HEL.The way you’re trying to finesse the comparison in favour of the HEL so that anything the HEL lacks in comparison is pointless anyway while anything the Arc 2 lacks is significant worthwhile suggests your eagerness to dismiss the mere suggestion of it has more to do with one unit being Schiit and the other not. . .


No, Hel was always about the superior mic input. It's the Asgard 3 that brings increased power output.


----------



## Snikibiki

So for pure fps comp.


Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't like the metrics they have for stuff like soundstage. You can't just put a number to something like that.
> 
> I love rtings for their tv stuff. Not so much for the audio. So much of audio is utterly subjective, and these data points don't amount to much.



But measures like that are OK? In this case k712 had much more soundstage than hd800s?https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-3-1/graph#327/3196/290
Which cans have "biggest" soundstage in games?


----------



## headphonesonly

Snikibiki said:


> So for pure fps comp.
> 
> 
> But measures like that are OK? In this case k712 had much more soundstage than hd800s?https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-3-1/graph#327/3196/290
> Which cans have "biggest" soundstage in games?


You can’t measure soundstage because of how subjective it is. K712 aren’t nearly as wide and surrounding as the hd 800. You shouldn’t be spending $1000 on a headphone for just gaming anyways.


----------



## Yethal

GSP 670 update.

I noticed the audible hiss goes away the moment I turn off my Xbox controller. Oh Sennheiser why didn't you go with 5.8Ghz?


----------



## Snikibiki (Dec 24, 2019)

headphonesonly said:


> You can’t measure soundstage because of how subjective it is. K712 aren’t nearly as wide and surrounding as the hd 800. You shouldn’t be spending $1000 on a headphone for just gaming anyways.


I don't have any other cans right now. Both can be equalized well for music, but I mostly play anyway. I wanted to know if k712 are close in terms of soundstage/surround compared to hd800.


----------



## Playstation

Yethal said:


> GSP 670 update.
> 
> I noticed the audible hiss goes away the moment I turn off my Xbox controller. Oh Sennheiser why didn't you go with 5.8Ghz?



This isn't totally related, so take it for whatever it is worth. 

I have the official PlayStation wall charger that works with the Dualshock 3 and 4. I typically always have it plugged in charging my controllers as I am gaming. The only reason I would ever have the headset plugged into the controller and not my dac. Is to use the microphone. What I noticed one day, as my Dualshock 4 was plugged into the charger. Whenever I went to calibrate my microphone, there was a humming noise. It went away as soon as I unplugged the controller from the charger. I guess it's best to always have a couple extra controllers on standby. Since batteries never hold charge very long. 

As for your problem. Is the only workaround to buy a different headset?


----------



## themrmikemcd

Well, I bit the bullet and bought the G6 sound blaster for my PS4/music listening. It's on sale for $129.00 right now on amazon. I'll be switching this for my Astro mix amp. (I have both the older orange bottom version and the crappy VSS sounding to me at least, TR edition.) I'll be using my 80ohm DT770s, 80ohm Vokyl Erupts and my Phillips SHP9500s. If anyone has any tips or tricks they would like to share please do so.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

themrmikemcd said:


> Well, I bit the bullet and bought the G6 sound blaster for my PS4/music listening. It's on sale for $129.00 right now on amazon. I'll be switching this for my Astro mix amp. (I have both the older orange bottom version and the crappy VSS sounding to me at least, TR edition.) I'll be using my 80ohm DT770s, 80ohm Vokyl Erupts and my Phillips SHP9500s. If anyone has any tips or tricks they would like to share please do so.


Make sure you have a PC nearby so you can change some settings that can only be done there. So download the G6 software, as well as update all the firmware and drivers for the G6 once you have it.


----------



## RedJohn456

I mainly game on PC and was looking for an amp/dac that allows me to simultaneously plug in my phone so I can listen to podcasts and music, or take phone calls in middle of games. The big three now appears to be Mix amp pro TR, Hel and G6. From what I understand after reading some of the impressions on here, the mixamp is the weakest sounding of the bunch but is the only one that allows two sources to be used at the same time right? Are there other amp/dacs with this functionality, short of me buying an actual mixer? @Mad Lust Envy


----------



## TeeReQs

You can connect your phone via bluetooth to an X7, and listen to audio from it while playing anything else simultaneously.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Make sure you have a PC nearby so you can change some settings that can only be done there. So download the G6 software, as well as update all the firmware and drivers for the G6 once you have it.


Thanks!!


----------



## KamikazeIce

Man am I depressed. Just got my Sparkos opamps today for a Christmas present for my X7, put them in and was *EXTREMELY* impressed by the swap.... then few hours later an electrical short in the garage (accident caused by neighbors and welding) fries my window AC unit and my X7 (only thing on that circuit).

I really don't want to get another X7 as it's only "5.1", but don't really want to use my Omni or Astro Mixamp either, but the only reason I had the X7 was I got a good deal on it and it worked for both Consoles and PC without multiple devices (to play PC Multi-channel music while playing Console games).
Is the G6 the only other device that works with both PC and Consoles via Optical?

Got the acquisition syndrome and needing something "new" to hold me over until we get some HDMI-In devices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

KamikazeIce said:


> Man am I depressed. Just got my Sparkos opamps today for a Christmas present for my X7, put them in and was *EXTREMELY* impressed by the swap.... then few hours later an electrical short in the garage (accident caused by neighbors and welding) fries my window AC unit and my X7 (only thing on that circuit).
> 
> I really don't want to get another X7 as it's only "5.1", but don't really want to use my Omni or Astro Mixamp either, but the only reason I had the X7 was I got a good deal on it and it worked for both Consoles and PC without multiple devices (to play PC Multi-channel music while playing Console games).
> Is the G6 the only other device that works with both PC and Consoles via Optical?
> ...


Creative Labs G5 or G6 external sound card.


----------



## Fegefeuer

*New BETA Firmware for the BlasterX G6*

Firmware 1.16 *added Voice chat support for selected games on Nintendo Switch*. Voice chat is title dependent and *testing has been limited to fortnite*.

https://creative.box.com/s/uo992gda7kykuk7ag3etzybvgp6yoa56

*PS4 Voice Chat Setup*:


Connect PS4/Pro's Optical-Out to G6's Optical-In


Connect PS4/Pro's USB to G6's USB


On PS4/Pro setup menu, goto Settings > Sound & Screen > Audio Output Settings, set Primary Output Port to Digital-Out (Optical), you may choose to output either PCM or Dolby Digital for Audio Format


Goto Devices > Audio Devices, set Output to Headphones to Chat Audio



> Firmware 1.16 added Voice chat support for selected games on Nintendo Switch. Voice chat is title dependent and testing has been limited to fortnite.
> 
> This feature is not supported on PC. Interaction and visual indications are not available when connected to a host computer.
> 
> ...


----------



## dakanao

Is Modern Warfare 2019 a good game? I've read from IW that it's the most tactical COD out there yet, which I do like to hear (I like smart thinking rushing games). 

Any more input on the game?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Its great if you like to deal with corner campers everywhere and maps so big and convoluted with a bunch of hiding places for campers.

Me? I freaking hate it. I miss the classic three lane run and gun action. This is just Battlefield in a COD skin.


----------



## headphonesonly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Its great if you like to deal with corner campers everywhere and maps so big and convoluted with a bunch of hiding places for campers.
> 
> Me? I freaking hate it. I miss the classic three lane run and gun action. This is just Battlefield in a COD skin.


It’s by far worse than Battlefield. At least in BF4 I can play aggressively and be successful at it.


----------



## illram (Dec 29, 2019)

dakanao said:


> Is Modern Warfare 2019 a good game? I've read from IW that it's the most tactical COD out there yet, which I do like to hear (I like smart thinking rushing games).
> 
> Any more input on the game?


I hated it at first but after about 2 days I am actually really enjoying it. That is a long time to spend getting to enjoy a game obviously so I get why it gets unfavorable reviews. It's the first COD with crossplay so I finally get to play COD on a PC with a mouse again, where the playerbase is not totally dead in three months in anything but TDM and Domination, which is fantastic.

The maps are indeed pretty complex and visibility is poor. Like any COD however once you get the maps nailed down it becomes a lot more enjoyable. The "tactical" thing is a bit of a meme about this game given the map complexity and the abundance of second floor hiding spots and sort of convoluted buildings in the maps that really add to the initial frustration. Campers abound in this game and it is extra frustrating when you are still getting used to the maps and learning the power positions. Oh and the claymores....

They are constantly adding new free maps (currently, all classic MW maps) which is good as at release there really were not enough.

The "gunsmith" gun customization is a fun new alternative to the old pick 10 system and the gunplay. I enjoy the gunplay in this one.

Audio wise, it is the first COD to use Atmos, which is cool. And footsteps at first were incredibly loud so sound-whoring was enjoyable.


----------



## TeeReQs

I like the game. Gunplay and audio are great, but the maps are much bigger than previous COD games. As they add more maps, and hopefully tweak some things, I think it will get better and better.


----------



## Lay.

dakanao said:


> Is Modern Warfare 2019 a good game? I've read from IW that it's the most tactical COD out there yet, which I do like to hear (I like smart thinking rushing games).
> 
> Any more input on the game?



This is the most noob friendly CoD ever. With skill based matchmaking and about 3KD I have zero casual and relaxing games. First CoD that I can't play against christmas noobs either. They play in their "safe place".  SnD with friends is pretty much only thing that I enjoy in this game.


----------



## themrmikemcd (Dec 29, 2019)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Make sure you have a PC nearby so you can change some settings that can only be done there. So download the G6 software, as well as update all the firmware and drivers for the G6 once you have it.


Thank you for always being cool and willing to help us less informed members out!! If you have a chance could you possibly help me out with a few settings for the G6? The instructions are a bit vague (For me at least). I'm trying to figure out when it is in direct mode. The led light goes from off, to a solid ring and sometimes it is blinking.  The paper work shows a picture saying direct mode as a solid light with little lines like a sunburst. Does that mean it should just be on solid circle or should it be blinking?  Sorry for such a dumb question, I  just want to make sure I'm getting the direct setting correct. Also is the set up on the PS4 pro settings the same as the astro mix amp? Putting it on optical, dolby 5.1, set it to chat?

  Also fyi, your pictures are no longer showing on the main guide for the g6.  And again,  just thank you for all your hard work with the guides. I've been burned a few times from a certain You tuber by following some of their praise of certain headphones only to find I have a much different taste in sound profiles than them. You have helped me immensely with picking out the best options that suit my needs! I love my DT770s 80 ohms and soon my G6.  I really appreciate your contributions!

Also while on the subject: Thank you to PurpleAngel who seems to always answer any question I have posted here lol. You 2 have always been nothing but friendly,  helpful and kind with your time. Just wanted everyone to know awesome it is to have this place to come to. Sorry this got so long. But I felt it needed to be said. I hope everyone here has a Happy, safe and a wonderful new Year!


----------



## ronfifer

Guys, at *1:55*, in what direction do you hear the shelf falling? (initial impact on the floor). Is it to your rear right (4-5 o'clock) or is it inside your head? Thanks. Try doing it with closed eyes.


----------



## Fegefeuer

00:53 is inside and feels LIKE DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING. Horrible.

1:55 is outside the head at 4-5 o'clock, much better


----------



## Lay.

themrmikemcd said:


> Also is the set up on the PS4 pro settings the same as the astro mix amp? Putting it on optical, dolby 5.1, set it to chat?


 Yes. The PS4 settings for the G6 are exactly the same.


----------



## themrmikemcd

Lay. said:


> Yes. The PS4 settings for the G6 are exactly the same.


Excellent! And thank you for taking the time to answer!


----------



## ronfifer

Fegefeuer said:


> 00:53 is inside and feels LIKE DEDICATED HARDPANNING STEREO GAMING. Horrible.
> 
> 1:55 is outside the head at 4-5 o'clock, much better



which headphone did you use?


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD 800


----------



## xxxkinel

I just wanted to ask i recently bought astro mixamp and akg 702 for my ps4 they are brilliant  
but i need to buy a mic for party chat
I had a clip on mic i bought years ago what you guys here recomend  to me   but i recently gave away my old setup to my nepthew
So i need a new mic please could you recomend to go with my akg702  astro mixamp pro tr  with ps4


----------



## ronfifer

Using the same settings, 2 different users hear it as in the video 00:53 vs 1:55. What could be the reason? We both enabled Binaural in-game settings, plugged in a stereo headphone, and enabled Dolby atmos in Windows. We both have same windows version and build number. Binaural does not seem to work for me (00:53) whereas it does for him (1:55). Using same game version and files off Steam.



Spoiler: Video


----------



## Fegefeuer

Do you both have the same windows version? IIRC a Windows 10 Ver does make Dolby Access lose the "grip" on the attached output device.

Anyway, anyone else enjoying Gears of War 5 with Dolby Atmos? Sometimes the mixing is off in terms of volume(s) but still a great experience.


----------



## ronfifer

yes same windows 10 version and build number.


----------



## Xspearo

I was wondering is Dolby Atoms superior to sound blaster G6 VSS? this is just for comp gaming related.


----------



## Lay.

xxxkinel said:


> I just wanted to ask i recently bought astro mixamp and akg 702 for my ps4 they are brilliant
> but i need to buy a mic for party chat
> I had a clip on mic i bought years ago what you guys here recomend  to me   but i recently gave away my old setup to my nepthew
> So i need a new mic please could you recomend to go with my akg702  astro mixamp pro tr  with ps4



ModMic


----------



## Fegefeuer

ronfifer said:


> yes same windows 10 version and build number.



Reset the app over apps&features?


----------



## jubeishock

Xspearo said:


> I was wondering is Dolby Atoms superior to sound blaster G6 VSS? this is just for comp gaming related.


I own G6, Dolby atmos win 10, to be honest I cannot distinguish big differences between both...   the only thing I know G6 as portable DAC AMP is a beast highly recommende, can run all kind of headphones and the "direct mode" + dolby atmos is a great combo. I have had Xduoo XD05 plus, Fiio K5 pro, Topping dx3 pro, and I've sold them cause I found this DAC much better.


----------



## Xspearo

jubeishock said:


> I own G6, Dolby atmos win 10, to be honest I cannot distinguish big differences between both...   the only thing I know G6 as portable DAC AMP is a beast highly recommende, can run all kind of headphones and the "direct mode" + dolby atmos is a great combo. I have had Xduoo XD05 plus, Fiio K5 pro, Topping dx3 pro, and I've sold them cause I found this DAC much better.



Thank you appreciate it! Yea I have the G6 but I was wondering if Atoms is better since I hear people talking about it. I have been eyeing the Schiit Hel but I know it doesnt have VSS, so it seems G6 is still best all in one.


----------



## RedJohn456 (Dec 30, 2019)

I am currently deciding between the following 4 gaming headphones and the reviews on youtube haven't done much in the way of narrowing down my choices lol.

I will be exclusively gaming on the PC and will be swapping between amp/dac combo and an astro mixamp pro TR (just came in today, really excited to try it out with Battlefield V tonight).

I should preface this by saying that I am not at all concerned about mic quality, nor the price difference amongst the options, just looking to find out which ones would have best audio for gaming essentially.

Deciding between:

HyperX Cloud 2
Logitech G Pro X headset
CoolerMaster MH751
Drop x Sennheiser PC37X.


Lots of awesome helpful people in this thread, I would greatly appreciate any help in narrowing down my choices. For what it's worth, I will be selling off my HD600 to replace them with HD6XX, so if the HD6XX is better than the aforementioned choices, please do let me know.

Happy holidays and new year to everyone


----------



## TeeReQs

Do you prefer open or closed headphones? Out of that list I would go with the PC37X, but the Hyper X Clouds are a decent option for closed back at their price point. I have not tried the other two options listed. I'd skip the HD6XX for primarily FPS gaming.


----------



## jubeishock

Im here with my own nightmare trying to find a good closed back headphones (for office and home) all in one (games, movies, music) with a decent price (max 300USD). Actually I own m40X, Fidelio x2hr. 
any recommendation?
Thanks


----------



## Xspearo

I not sure if I'm doing something wrong but if I put the G6 in direct mode do I lose voice chat?


----------



## pietcux

jubeishock said:


> Im here with my own nightmare trying to find a good closed back headphones (for office and home) all in one (games, movies, music) with a decent price (max 300USD). Actually I own m40X, Fidelio x2hr.
> any recommendation?
> Thanks


Try the Sennheiser GSP600. It is a closed headset with a good microphone. I find it very comfortable to wear. It runs well from a mainboard if needed. The sound is quite good for music gaming and Skype.


----------



## Yethal

Continuation of the GSP 670 impressions:

I moved my PC back to my bedroom, connected the internet and the gamepad over cable, still get hiss and dropouts.
Positioning is pretty good (when the headset doesn't randomly switch to 2.0 mode). Walking around Velen (I finally gave up and bought W3) I can easily locate voices of npcs and grunts of monsters in the 3D space which is nice. Played a few hours of Apex Legends and was thoroughly impressed with positioning accuracy. However considering the fact the soundstage isn't that big I'd attribute the surround quality to the VSS algorithm itself and not to the headset.

Hardware game/voice balance is a brilliant feature and more headsets should use it.

Music sounds meh, lacks dynamics and punch. My Fiio FH5 (which can be had for half the price of the GSP670 now) sound livelier.

Overall, 5/10. It's not terrible but I expected better given the brand and the money. I'd love Sennheiser to take their VSS and implement it in a product that allows players to plug their own headphones while simultaneously retaining the wireless aspect of it (like the old Astro Mixamp 5.8). I'll see if I can return it and if yes I'll probably buy Astro, at least they use 5.8Ghz for audio transmission.


----------



## mindbomb (Dec 31, 2019)

ronfifer said:


> Using the same settings, 2 different users hear it as in the video 00:53 vs 1:55. What could be the reason? We both enabled Binaural in-game settings, plugged in a stereo headphone, and enabled Dolby atmos in Windows. We both have same windows version and build number. Binaural does not seem to work for me (00:53) whereas it does for him (1:55). Using same game version and files off Steam.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Video




Back up for a second, you are using binaural in game with dolby atmos for headphones in windows? That might be your problem, you are only supposed to have virtual surround sound once in the chain. Shouldn't have it enabled in game and in windows at the same time. Once it is binaural, you can't binaural-ize it again.


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 1, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> Back up for a second, you are using binaural in game with dolby atmos for headphones in windows? That might be your problem, you are only supposed to have virtual surround sound once in the chain. Shouldn't have it enabled in game and in windows at the same time. Once it is binaural, you can't binaural-ize it again.



But the other user has it working well as you can hear in 1:55 with the same settings. that's not the problem. His surround is activated while mine is not. Turning Dolby Atmos for headphones makes absolutely no difference for me in game. The game is locked to playing the same stereo sound no matter what combination of settings I use in Windows and in game. It is baffling. Whereas the other user has Binaural toggling properly. We have same everything.
For readers, we are referring to 00:53 vs 1:55 in the above video in RE2. Notice the sound of the falling shelf rack.

EDIT: What questions should I ask the other user to investigate the reason behind this? He tried USB soundcard AND on-board audio chip and got surround sound in both cases. He has same Windows build number. Same game version. Is there something about Windows being enabled to decode Dolby and DTS? He might have this function enabled but I don't at Windows level? What shall i ask him to get to the bottom of this?

EDIT 2: You can all download the demo for free from steam. Here is another comparison video from the demo. Please focus on *00:04 vs 1:36*. Why?? Can anyone explain it? We both have same version, same Windows version, same windows audio settings, and same in-game audio settings. No matter what I change, my sound is locked in stereo mode as in 00:04.


----------



## themrmikemcd (Jan 2, 2020)

jubeishock said:


> I own G6, Dolby atmos win 10, to be honest I cannot distinguish big differences between both...   the only thing I know G6 as portable DAC AMP is a beast highly recommende, can run all kind of headphones and the "direct mode" + dolby atmos is a great combo. I have had Xduoo XD05 plus, Fiio K5 pro, Topping dx3 pro, and I've sold them cause I found this DAC much better.


I'm still learning my G6. It's not super complicated but the instructions that come with it are not the clearest on how to use it. Sometimes I don't know when I'm in direct mode or not. Sometimes it's a solid white ring and sometimes it's blinking seems to change based on if I have it plugged into my PC or plugged into wall outlet...*Edit Okay I'm dumb. I think i just realized that you can't use direct mode for consoles  and or through a cell phone. Only on PC..


----------



## stavros.m

Hey Everyone,  I am not sure I quite understand between competitive and fun headphones. Do they really make a big difference in the means of can a competitive headphones still be used for games that are meant to be more fun. I currently own the dt990 which are more on the fun side, but since I am playing more console I wanted something easier to run. I was looking at the shp9500, x2hr and the audeze mobius.
 I am not sure if I can justify the price of the mobius since there are no advantage while playing on console. 
The shp9500 are like 150$ with the mic and the x2hr like 250$ with the mic. But I am stuck in will the shp9500 be a bad  headphone because I play all different types of games for example at the moment I am playing boarderlands 3 and red dead redemption 2 and they say the shp9500 are only for competitive games. I will also jump back to PC to play any mmo or games not available on console.  Any help will be appreciated or if you have any other suggestions on headphone that might fit in between the 2 would be appreciated Thanks in advance and happy new year


----------



## Playstation

HD 559s vs X2hr sound only
Anyone?


----------



## TeeReQs

Xspearo said:


> I not sure if I'm doing something wrong but if I put the G6 in direct mode do I lose voice chat?



Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's normal. Direct mode on the X7 will do the same thing.


----------



## SnakeEyes13NIN (Jan 2, 2020)

Yethal said:


> Don't. Xbox one does not support usb audio for any device other than Astro Mixamp so the dac/adc section of Hel would be totally wasted here (unless you plan on using it as an amp only and plugging the usb into a pc for chat)


Thank you so much for your reply.

Am still learning and reading and researching this headphone gaming guide. Any Xbox One X console players in this thread? And if any, any suggestions for a great pair of headphones? Been wanting to ask but am a bit hesitant to ask, as am still learning but would like to know any headphones other than gaming ones that are great and work with my Xbox One X and my astro amp. I would like to experience great everything in a pair of headphones. 

Cheers


----------



## Fegefeuer

stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone,  I am not sure I quite understand between competitive and fun headphones. Do they really make a big difference in the means of can a competitive headphones still be used for games that are meant to be more fun. I currently own the dt990 which are more on the fun side, but since I am playing more console I wanted something easier to run. I was looking at the shp9500, x2hr and the audeze mobius.
> I am not sure if I can justify the price of the mobius since there are no advantage while playing on console.
> The shp9500 are like 150$ with the mic and the x2hr like 250$ with the mic. But I am stuck in will the shp9500 be a bad  headphone because I play all different types of games for example at the moment I am playing boarderlands 3 and red dead redemption 2 and they say the shp9500 are only for competitive games. I will also jump back to PC to play any mmo or games not available on console.  Any help will be appreciated or if you have any other suggestions on headphone that might fit in between the 2 would be appreciated Thanks in advance and happy new year



SHP9600 and X3 are soon to be released. If you didn't get a good deal (all these multiple 100 bucks deals in the recent months) on the predecessors you might wanna hope for another round of deals once these release. Who knows if it happens. Between SHP9500 and X2, just get the X2.




Playstation said:


> HD 559s vs X2hr sound only
> Anyone?



Just get the X2. See above.


----------



## stavros.m (Jan 3, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> SHP9600 and X3 are soon to be released. If you didn't get a good deal (all these multiple 100 bucks deals in the recent months) on the predecessors you might wanna hope for another round of deals once these release. Who knows if it happens. Between SHP9500 and X2, just get the X2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perfect thanks for advice



stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone,  I am not sure I quite understand between competitive and fun headphones. Do they really make a big difference in the means of can a competitive headphones still be used for games that are meant to be more fun. I currently own the dt990 which are more on the fun side, but since I am playing more console I wanted something easier to run. I was looking at the shp9500, x2hr and the audeze mobius.
> I am not sure if I can justify the price of the mobius since there are no advantage while playing on console.
> The shp9500 are like 150$ with the mic and the x2hr like 250$ with the mic. But I am stuck in will the shp9500 be a bad  headphone because I play all different types of games for example at the moment I am playing boarderlands 3 and red dead redemption 2 and they say the shp9500 are only for competitive games. I will also jump back to PC to play any mmo or games not available on console.  Any help will be appreciated or if you have any other suggestions on headphone that might fit in between the 2 would be appreciated Thanks in advance and happy new year




Also would the creative sxfi either air  or theater headphones be worth it since I am able to use them on both console and PC

[merged]


----------



## pietcux

I have the Creative Sound Blaster X3 since 3 weeks now, did not have much time to test it so far. My first finding is that SXFI works  best with my Sennheiser HD800SD. It can drive it on a decent level and it creates a very nice out of the head feeling. This goes for music firsthand. Will do some gaming over the4 next weeks. First impression with The Division 2 on PC is a very good enemy location. That is what we all want, right?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, we want more detailed impressions and comparisons with other VSS, mein Froind.


----------



## halcyon

pietcux said:


> I have the Creative Sound Blaster X3 since 3 weeks now, did not have much time to test it so far. My first finding is that SXFI works  best with my Sennheiser HD800SD. It can drive it on a decent level and it creates a very nice out of the head feeling. This goes for music firsthand. Will do some gaming over the4 next weeks. First impression with The Division 2 on PC is a very good enemy location. That is what we all want, right?



Thanks for the first impression. Questions, if you have time/willigness to answer:

- do you hea*r reverb/echo/phase shifting artifcats* (artificial "space feeling") in the surround algorithm? I.e. feeling like in an echoic room, when the game is in open-air
- how is the* front-to-back localization differentation*? This is the major pitfall of almost ALL VSS algos? If you close your eyes, and have sound come from directly front or diretly back in the 3D audio space, can you actually hear and distinguish the direction of the sound (i.e. localize it to front or back) without looking or thinking about it?
- are *distant sounds attenuated/amplified *(like further away footsteps in 3D FPS games) compared to other VSS? I.e. does it try to artifically enhance distance sounds or completely fade them to non-existance?

Thanks for any/all impressions!

For me the blue-light constant LED alone is a reason NOT to buy the unit. Creative really screwed up on that one (they should have understood the basics of biologically compatible lighting, everybody and their grandma is trying to reduce blue light, and Creative puts in it a blue light that can NOT be turned OFF).


----------



## pietcux (Jan 4, 2020)

Regarding the blue light, let me assure you it is very dim. I have the X3 underneath my monitor and is does not bother me at all. But I am on the safe side anyways, I wear glasses for PC work and gaming lenses made by Zeiss with a blue light filter inside. So my monitors run on standard mode blue light filter off. Double blue light filtering looks kind da off to me.
Regarding the sound I will come back later.


----------



## kobikgames (Jan 4, 2020)

due budget + issues in regards to headphone availability i am stuck between the AKG K371 (closed), SHP9500 (open) and the HD599 (open). Can anyone tell me how much of an upgrade they will be over the HyperX Cloud II?

I wanted to get the 58x jubilee at first, but shipping would be expensive. After that the akg k702 but i have no option to use a dac/amp with my PS4 cause i have the ps4 slim and the soundcards go ver yfar over my budget. So i stick with something that doesnt need a dac/amp and can run both well on my pc and ps4.


----------



## Corbis

Hi all, I've been on the fence in getting a Sound Blaster X3 just for the SFXI and SBX features.

I do have a particular question about it for those folks that have tried it out with tv & movie viewing.   I usually stream shows or download mkv movies with 5.1/7.1 Dolby/DTS encoding in them.  

Does SFXI or SBX work well with Dolby/DTS encoded formats in providing convincing Virtual Surround Sound through headphones?
I've read about complaints with SFXI that dialogue in movies become hard to distinguish when there are other sound effects going off in the background.  Is there a way to adjust this?


----------



## pietcux

Just took Ghost is a Shell to check for you. Atmos for Headphones enabled plus SXFI sounds much more out of head than with SXFI disabled. Atmos for Headphone disabled and SXFI on sounds very good too, but less dynamic. But honestly PC Bluray sound is still a miracle to me. I use Power DVD 17 for this task. So there is nothing off sounding, both effects on sounds simply amazing to me.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 5, 2020)

@Mad Lust Envy Just wanted to share my current laptop setup:

Creative SoundblasterX G6  (using Line-Out w/ Virtualization, prefer Fast Roll-off Linear Phase filter, sounds more lively)
iFi iDefender3.0 + Rosewill USB Powerbank (laptop USB power proved to be noisy and had some ground hum on amp)
Monoprice 3.5mm to dual RCA Premium 22AWG cable 1.5 ft. 
Schiit Asgard 3
Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro (Balanced Pads + EQ APO/AutoEQ settings)  Utter overkill gaming headset  






No mic yet, haven't decided which I want.


----------



## Corbis

pietcux said:


> *Atmos* for Headphones enabled plus SXFI sounds much more out of head than with SXFI disabled. *Atmos* for Headphone disabled and SXFI on sounds very good too, but less dynamic. But honestly PC Bluray sound is still a miracle to me. I use Power DVD 17 for this task. So there is nothing off sounding, both effects on sounds simply amazing to me.


Ok so you actually paid for an Atmos surround license for headphones and you use it in conjunction with SFXI?   It never occurred to me you could use both.  Interesting.

Too bad the X3 doesn't have a line out.  I have a better headphone amp than what the X3 can provide.


----------



## Chastity

Corbis said:


> Ok so you actually paid for an Atmos surround license for headphones and you use it in conjunction with SFXI?   It never occurred to me you could use both.  Interesting.
> 
> Too bad the X3 doesn't have a line out.  I have a better headphone amp than what the X3 can provide.


The X3 has 5.1 outs, why can't the fronts be used for Line-Out?


----------



## Corbis

Chastity said:


> The X3 has 5.1 outs, why can't the fronts be used for Line-Out?



err.....mainly because the front line out are only carrying the front surround signals???  What about the the other line outs(side, rear one, center/sub)?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 5, 2020)

Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.

Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.

i.e.

Game with 7.1 +  Atmos headphone = 2 channels Atmos surround (headphones are two channel, so there's no way to keep 7.1 if you're listening to headphones).

2 channels Atmos surround + GSX = botched 2 channels with two virtual surrounds = uuuuh no

GSX, SBX, etc need the original 5.1/7.1 audio.


----------



## pietcux

Corbis said:


> Ok so you actually paid for an Atmos surround license for headphones and you use it in conjunction with SFXI?   It never occurred to me you could use both.  Interesting.
> 
> Too bad the X3 doesn't have a line out.  I have a better headphone amp than what the X3 can provide.


You can always double amp. Headphone out >> Amp line in. But the X3 amp is good enough to drive a HD800. For game sound and movies it is very enjoyable. For music use the X 3 as preamp and your preferred amp as power amp.


----------



## pietcux

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.
> 
> Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.
> 
> ...



You are absolutely right on using two virtual surrounds on all other VRSS but SXFI with Atmos plugin. It was on by accident and it did not sound off at all. It was a movie with a native Atmos soundtrack. With the GSX it sounds weird instead.


----------



## halcyon

pietcux said:


> Just took Ghost is a Shell to check for you. Atmos for Headphones enabled plus SXFI sounds much more out of head than with SXFI disabled. Atmos for Headphone disabled and SXFI on sounds very good too, but less dynamic. But honestly PC Bluray sound is still a miracle to me. I use Power DVD 17 for this task. So there is nothing off sounding, both effects on sounds simply amazing to me.



7.1 discrete input -> windows Dolby Atmos 7.1 to Stereo decode -> Stereo input to Super X-fi via X3 -> Stereo output.

That is two processing systems right after each other.

The first Atmos does the actual 7.1 -> Stereo VSS downmixing and spatial 3D sound.

What SXFI after that does is just mess up the sound and add more echo/reverb/phase errors.

It may sound "out of your head" due to the phase errors (classic mixing technique) but accurate in terms of positional audio or 3D space it is not. I would NOT use this for FPS gaming, where recognizing the sound direction is actually important. For movies and for "out of your head effect" perhaps.

YMMV, of course.


----------



## Scriba

With my DT 1990 it's more easy to recognize the position of the enemys if I have stereo on. I tried the DT 1990 with de mixamp surround and it was worse (echo/reverb nothing else). May I need to try with ingame audio settings set to speakers instead headphones.


----------



## stavros.m

Does the X3 SXFI work on PS4 i see i check mark on the site but i was reading somewhere i think hear say it doesn't can anyone confirm this. Also is there any difference between the sxfi x3 and air headphones. Thanks


----------



## RedJohn456 (Jan 6, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Let me just remind everyone that when you're using stuff like SXFI, Atmos, GSX, etc, make sure the games themselves are NOT set to headphones in their sound settings. I dunno why I have to constantly repeat this, but all these technologies need a home theater/surround speaker setup setting to work properly. NOT HEADPHONES.
> 
> Also, don't be that guy that uses two virtual surrounds together. Just don't. They weren't meant to work that way and all your doing is taking a surround feed downmixed to two channels that sounds virtually like surround, and processing that again. What did I say earlier? These things need a full set of "speakers" to properly virtualize into surround. Can't do that when it's already been converted to two speakers by the first tech.
> 
> ...




I got my first gaming dac, astro mix amp pro TR for PC and trying to set it up for use with my headphones. I initially had the in game audio in Battlefield V to 3d headphones and the surround sound option in the astro mix amp to off.

The menu option looks like this:





So going by your post, I should have the output configuration to Surround and Sound preset to Speakers? And keep the Surround processing option on Astro mix amp off?

Edit: wondering if I should get the Soundblaster X3 and return the Mixamp, as I got the mixamp just to plug my phone in when playing video games.


----------



## pietcux

halcyon said:


> 7.1 discrete input -> windows Dolby Atmos 7.1 to Stereo decode -> Stereo input to Super X-fi via X3 -> Stereo output.
> 
> That is two processing systems right after each other.
> 
> ...


Real Atmos is not 7.1, it is 9.2 or more.
SXFI used alone on the Atmos soundtrack of Ghost in the Shell sounds very out of the head already. 
Activating the Atmos plugin just happened because W10 decided to use it for an Atmos signal. 
And I liked the result. The positional cues were very accurate.
I can very good differentiate between messed up tricks and well done simulation. 
At the end of all VSS it is a 2 channel signal to the two headphone drivers, isn't it? 
The X3 is a very interesting device due to it's SXFI in my opinion, if interested in VSS it is a must buy.


----------



## halcyon (Jan 7, 2020)

pietcux said:


> Real Atmos is not 7.1, it is 9.2 or more.



Pure Dolby Atmos *MIX *is anything from 5.1 to 24.1.10 channels.

Dolby ATMOS *ALGORITHM *in Windows 10 is responsible for downmixing this multichannel *MIX *into a stereo mix (3D virtual surround) using a generic HRTF and some other proprietary technology to try and retain some of the direction/depth/size/space/room/distance information in the Dolby Atmos MIX.



> SXFI used alone on the Atmos soundtrack of Ghost in the Shell sounds very out of the head already.



If you have a Dolby Atmos *MIX *soundtrack in a game (not using the Windows 10 Dolby Atmos algo), it is already a *downmixed *to stereo.

That is, the multichannel mix is already *downmixed *to *stereo channels *and has one layer of 3D Virtual Surround applied.

Turning on Super X-Fi on top of that won't make it any more Virtual or 3D, it will just mask/distort the original Dolby Atmos downmix by applying ANOTHER layer of Virtual Surround on top of it, AND doing it from a 2-channel source (that has already been virtualized). Super X-fi cannot guess multichannel data from the Dolby Atmost stereo downmix and calculate ANYTHING useful to that stereo mix. It will just add new layers of echo/reverb and phase errors.



> And I liked the result. The positional cues were very accurate.



It is perfectly ok to like the result, I'm sure it can even sound more "out of your head" (phase shifting does that). That can indeed sound fun and more spatial.

However to call it accurate (to what the original author intended) or accurate in terms of directionality when compared to NOT applying the Super X-fi distortion (to already 3D VSS Atmos signal) is perhaps not the most accurate or honest portrayl of what is happening.



> I can very good differentiate between messed up tricks and well done simulation.



That may be so, but in this guess you were either fooled or didn't understand what was happening. Super X-fi can NOT:

- Take in undecoded pure bitstream PCM Dolby Atmost signal (Super X-Fi does not have Dolby Atmost licensing and does NOT know how to decode Dolby atmos data).

- Can only apply Super X-fi echo/reverb/phase shifting to a downmixed Dolby Atmos STEREO signal that has already been downmixed by the in-game (or Windows 10) Dolby Atmos algorithm. That is, Super X-fi IS NOT applying these effects to a discrete multichannel signal and does not know how to properly place the sound streams into the 3D space it is trying to create.

What Super X-fi in Creative Sound Blaster X3 CAN do:

- Super X-fi CAN take NON-Dolby multichannel (up to 7.1) discrete audio signals (from game, etc) that is NOT yet downmixed (by Dolby/DTS or any other algo) into stereo, and downmix that multichannel signal itself into stereo Virtual Surround 3D audio mix using the proprietary Creative Super X-Fi personalized HRTF algo.



> At the end of all VSS it is a 2 channel signal to the two headphone drivers, isn't it?



Yes. But doing multiple VSS algos on top of each other on a STEREO signal doesn't make it better.



> The X3 is a very interesting device due to it's SXFI in my opinion, if interested in VSS it is a must buy.



I don't doub that, but based on how Creative implemented it (no ability to adjust the VSS effects esp reverb/echo in Super X-fi algo), perhaps it is not for me.

I don't want an artificial 3D spatial feeling of a "room" applied to my discrete multichannel gaming audio input, if the game happens in open space...


----------



## halcyon (Jan 6, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Does the X3 SXFI work on PS4 i see i check mark on the site but i was reading somewhere i think hear say it doesn't can anyone confirm this. Also is there any difference between the sxfi x3 and air headphones. Thanks



It works, but it can only do fake 3D Virtual sound as it can NOT input any discrete multichannel input and downmix that to Virtualized 3D Surround stereo (headphones sound).

It can only input Stereo signal and make some spatial trickery into that, and make it sound more "spatial".

But it will not be competition for Sound Blaster X7 , that can take Dolby Digital 5.1 multichannel mix from say PS4 game (provided it gives that output) AND then downmix that signal into a proper 3D Virtual Surround stereo.

So, on PS4 X3 is "fake 3D VSS" whereas X7 is "real 3D VSS" if being fed proper multichannel Dolby digital signal.

*META*: 3D Virtual Sound and Positional 3D Audio should NOT be this hard Voodoo on Windows. Most users are completely baffled and don't understand what is happening.

Microsoft, Dolby, DTS, Creative and the rest let us down.

We should be able to get original Positional 3D audio and be able to dowmix that using OUR algo of choice, to our own personalized HRTF, and outputting it to as many channel output device (2.0, 2.1,, 3.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.2, etc) as we WANT and still have accurate, detailed, believable and non-false Spatial audio in games, movies, etc.

This is not hard. The algos, know-how and the technology has been known for years and the CPUs have been powerful enough for more than 10 years now to do this in real-time.

We were let down by all of the above and first and foremost Microsoft.

The trouble is that they now HAVE to fix it for Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality, where Accurate, detailed and believable, low-latency positional 3D audio is becoming first a differentiating factor and later on a minimum requirement for believable immersion.

And what Microsoft is currently offering as a solution (Windows Sonic), doesn't leave me with high hopes.


----------



## stavros.m (Jan 6, 2020)

halcyon said:


> It works, but it can only do fake 3D Virtual sound as it can NOT input any discrete multichannel input and downmix that to Virtualized 3D Surround stereo (headphones sound).
> 
> It can only input Stereo signal and make some spatial trickery into that, and make it sound more "spatial".
> 
> ...



thank you for that. So something like the G6 would be better for PS4 and i am assuming its "fake 3D" also for the nintendo switch


----------



## inseconds99

Just purchased and HD800 S to pair with my X7 for awesome virtual gaming. I do have one question, if I buy a Topping DX7 Pro to upgrade my Dac/Amp for music. Can I go optical out from X7 to the Topping and get the awesome virtual surround but with the benefit of that amps power? Also does the optical out on the X7 do pass through, so I don’t have to disconnect it every time I want reference sound for music?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 7, 2020)

RedJohn456 said:


> I got my first gaming dac, astro mix amp pro TR for PC and trying to set it up for use with my headphones. I initially had the in game audio in Battlefield V to 3d headphones and the surround sound option in the astro mix amp to off.
> 
> The menu option looks like this:
> 
> ...


For the Mixamp, I'm not even sure it can grab proper surround from a PC. Unless the PC is connected to the Mixamp from a optical cable and the sound devices on the PC says Dolby Digital,m you're not gonna get the proper audio from a PC anyways, so you may as well use any amp.

So for you, using the headphone option in the game would be right, since the Mixamp can't properly do virtual surround anyways.

The Mixamp is very limited in terms of PC use.

Had you been on console, and the console outputting in Dolby Digital, then the game should've been set to output 'home thetaer' or something close to that, surround, and speakers. Nothing that says headphones. Remember you're trying to extract a home theater setup's sound, and the Mixamp itself would be converting that to a 'headphone' surround. This is why headphone options in game are NOT correct. You wouldn't be allowing the Mixamp to do what it should do properly (when you have the surround function turned on).


A real bad example: Think of it like trying turn audio from cd to mp3. Your Mixamp is a cd to mp3 converter, so you want the original file to stay as cd. If you already have another program's setting that turned the audio to mp3, then there wouldn't be any benefit to using the Mixamp in that case, and you would not let it do what it was meant to do.


----------



## Yethal

Mad Lust Envy said:


> For the Mixamp, I'm not even sure it can grab proper surround from a PC. Unless the PC is connected to the Mixamp from a optical cable and the sound devices on the PC says Dolby Digital,m you're not gonna get the proper audio from a PC anyways, so you may as well use any amp.
> 
> So for you, using the headphone option in the game would be right, since the Mixamp can't properly do virtual surround anyways.
> 
> ...


No longer accurate, newest mixamps have full pc support.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yethal said:


> No longer accurate, newest mixamps have full pc support.


Ah ok, then yeah, like consoles, you need to not enable headphone settings in game.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 7, 2020)

https://www.koss.com/headphones/wireless-headphones/ksc35-wireless

HNNNNNG. Need. My PortaPro wireless lost a channel and I gotta fix it, but I could really use this in the meantime....

KSC35 wireless. $50. Edit: BOUGHT


----------



## Fegefeuer

Look!


----------



## RedJohn456 (Jan 7, 2020)

Yethal said:


> No longer accurate, newest mixamps have full pc support.



I still can't get it to sound nice, whenever I turn the on board vss it sounds reverb and like I am listening underwater. I am most likely going to return it as I am not impressed with the sound quality at all.

For PC gaming, Would you say the X7 is worth getting still? After reading through this thread a bit more it seems that the Sennheiser GSX1000, Soundblaster X3, X7 and G6 are popular choices for pc gaming. If at all possible, I would like to be able to use multiple sources simultaneously, plugging my phone in for example. However I am willing to sacrifice that if it means I can get much better sound quality than the mixamp pro.

edit: fixed typo


----------



## RedJohn456

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ah ok, then yeah, like consoles, you need to not enable headphone settings in game.



Thanks bud, I still can't get it to sound half decent so it will be going back and I need to consider getting something else.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You have to get used yo the sound. No one likes it when they first use it. You can't just turn it on and think, ok perfect. It takes days.

Assuming it's still using dolby headphone 2.


----------



## RedJohn456

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You have to get used yo the sound. No one likes it when they first use it. You can't just turn it on and think, ok perfect. It takes days.
> 
> Assuming it's still using dolby headphone 2.



I was checking the manual and specs on the website and nothing specific about which dolby they are supporting. But if thats what VSS is supposed to sound like for gaming, I guess I can try to get used to it. 

I will keep Battlefield V output on surround and preset speakers and keep the astro mixamp dolby button on and see how I fare with it for the time being.


----------



## Yethal

RedJohn456 said:


> I still can't get it to sound nice, whenever I turn the on board vss it sounds reverb and like I am listening underwater. I am most likely going to return it as I am not impressed with the sound quality at all.
> 
> For PC gaming, Would you say the X7 is worth getting still? After reading through this thread a bit more it seems that the Sennheiser GSX1000, Soundblaster X3, X7 and G6 are popular choices for pc gaming. If at all possible, I would like to be able to use multiple sources simultaneously, plugging my phone in for example. However I am willing to sacrifice that if it means I can get much better sound quality than the mixamp pro.
> 
> edit: fixed typo


Yes, it's still pretty good and it can be further improved by swapping opamps for some better ones and/or adding an external dac/amp


----------



## mindbomb (Jan 7, 2020)

RedJohn456 said:


> I was checking the manual and specs on the website and nothing specific about which dolby they are supporting. But if thats what VSS is supposed to sound like for gaming, I guess I can try to get used to it.
> 
> I will keep Battlefield V output on surround and preset speakers and keep the astro mixamp dolby button on and see how I fare with it for the time being.



Yea, there was that one crytek game that came with vss enabled by default, and people didn't really complain about the audio quality, which indicates to me that when people don't have a point of reference for how the game "should" sound, they don't complain about vss sound quality at all. In other words, I see it as a problem of unfamiliarity. Meanwhile, the vss objectively gives them better spatial information.


----------



## halcyon (Jan 7, 2020)

At CES 2020 *JBL *launched their own closed,* circumaural VSS 3D positional audio gaming headset *range, *JBL Quantum*:

https://news.jbl.com/en-CEU/184556-...e-launch-of-the-jbl-quantum-range-at-ces-2020






The top of the line model is JBL* Quantum One* (USB-C wired + also wireless connections) using their own user-customizable _QuantumSURROUND _and Q_uantumSPHERE 360_ algos using the PC software to map multi-channel sound input to stereo VSS 3D output with personalized HRTF. They also support DTS Headphone 2.0. Quantum One model also has head-tracking.

The gaming VSS 3D marketplace is really heating up. Almost everybody and their grandma is throwing some sort of algo into the competition. In a few years we'll see which ones won. Often it is not even the best performing one, but the one that has best marketing and distribution.

What leave me hopeful is that JBL has excellent and experienced psychoacousticians working for them and state-of-the-art testing facilities. If they have utilized those to the full, they could have something quite interesting in their hands (in terms of the VSS algos).

If anybody tries the JBL Quantum (shipping in April 2020), let us know.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I agree, there's nobody like JBL doing so much for staging and pinpoint imaging, from LS305 up to the highest top.

Rocking Studio 530 and L7 in my too small HT but getting supreme immersion and imaging nevertheless.

Would still prefer them partnering up with AKG for a higher end headphone solution.


----------



## Lay.

RedJohn456 said:


> But if thats what VSS is supposed to sound like for gaming, I guess I can try to get used to it.



Astro MixAmp Pro TR gen3 had a bit tinny metallic sound to it. Some describe it metallic reverb. People say that the gen 4 TR has pretty much the same sound. You can make it a little better with custom preset but it is still there.

MixAmp works well to pinpoint sound directions but G6 sounds much better to my ears.


----------



## Playstation

I don’t understand all the frequency response graphs, they all look the same. 

So I’m looking for an n shape sound. Is that what the fidelio x2hr are? Decent mid bass, forward mids?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 8, 2020)

No. The Fidelios are minutely v shaped. A cross of Neutral and V.

N shape would actually be lacking in sub bass and treble, and have only mids as its strength, and possibly some upper bass. Something like the HD650/6XX comes to mind.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No. The Fidelios are minutely v shaped. A cross of Neutral and V.
> 
> N shape would actually be lacking in sub bass and treble, and have only mids as its strength, and possibly some upper bass. Something like the HD650/6XX comes to mind.



Let me ask a different question. When it comes to video games, do mids not factor in to what makes a headphone immersive? Also. Are the terms fun and immersive synonymous? Hypothetically. If bass is all you need to a have fun/immersive listening experience then I should stop trying to avoiding a V shape sound. If that is the case, I’ll definitely need to reconsider all the options.


----------



## kobikgames

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No. The Fidelios are minutely v shaped. A cross of Neutral and V.
> 
> N shape would actually be lacking in sub bass and treble, and have only mids as its strength, and possibly some upper bass. Something like the HD650/6XX comes to mind.



I am totally new to the whole headphone/audiophile stuff.

What is your opinion on the HD599 for gaming?


----------



## headphonesonly

kobikgames said:


> I am totally new to the whole headphone/audiophile stuff.
> 
> What is your opinion on the HD599 for gaming?


Good but I wouldn’t spend $200 for them


----------



## kobikgames

headphonesonly said:


> Good but I wouldn’t spend $200 for them


I can get them for $150, which is more in the "cheaper" range for most headphones I can get in Europe. Except for the AKGs(20 dollars cheaper), but they need a DAC/AMP that do not fit my budget.


----------



## headphonesonly

kobikgames said:


> I can get them for $150, which is more in the "cheaper" range for most headphones I can get in Europe. Except for the AKGs(20 dollars cheaper), but they need a DAC/AMP that do not fit my budget.


I would say get the 58x but I don’t think the European drop is live right now. $150 is a bit more reasonable for the 599.


----------



## headphonesonly

How much do shp9500 go for in Europe?


----------



## kobikgames

headphonesonly said:


> How much do shp9500 go for in Europe?



SHP9500 has suddenly doubled or so in price. first I could get it around 60-80 euros, now it's around 120 euros.

I was thinking about getting the jubilee, but the unfortunate thing is that I would have to pay customs. It probably would be more expensive than the HD599 ( I have giftcards to purchase 599 from a specific store, i forgot to mention. reducing the price by 80 dollars)


----------



## halcyon (Jan 9, 2020)

Related to this thread: at *CES2020 Creative *announced :

- *Super X-Fi Gen2* (improved version of their personlized HRTF SXFI algo, based on the data they got from 1st gen SXFI users. According to Creative: _"Super X-Fi Gen2 profile will be implemented on all existing user profiles worldwide ... perform a simple firmware update and download new profiles through SXFI app". _According to Lee, _"Gen3 is already on the horizon"_)
- *SXFI GAMER headphone *with "more aggressive RGB lighting" (looks like SXFI Air with more er... lights, ugh + a specifically tuned SXFI profile for FPS games. Release in Q2 2020)

No news on anything beyond Sound Blaster X3....

Source: https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...uper-X-Fi-Ecosystem-Unveiled-at-CES-2020.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Incoming mini review/rant on the KSC35 wireless.

I'm upset. I'm angry, and I'm sick of Koss making one step forward, two steps back.


----------



## RedJohn456

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You have to get used yo the sound. No one likes it when they first use it. You can't just turn it on and think, ok perfect. It takes days.
> 
> Assuming it's still using dolby headphone 2.



Your point about not liking it right away was bang on. I used the mix amp pro for gaming exclusively in the dolby mode and with an easy to drive sony over ear headphone and I think I am used to the sound now. I finally get it now, it took a while but it clicked. The VSS sound profile for competitive gaming is not meant to be immersive or fun in the traditional sense, but rather tweaked to ensure maximum fidelity of positional cues right, despite how unnatural it may sound at once. But once I used it for a few days I got used to it and I more or less stopped noticing the metallic sound or the reverb and the sound is not jarring as before.

Initially I tried using the Shure SRH840 and K7XX and I think they maybe are not suitable for the mixamp pro 4th gen. I am using Sony H.ear on and the VSS sounds a lot more natural with those. Now I am thinking of adding a modest gaming focused headset into the mix. I am thinking of maybe the HyperX cloud II (i had the cloud core but the pads ripped and you cant buy the stock leatherette pads anywhere fml) or the Logitech G Pro X (the one without the sound card dongle).




Yethal said:


> Yes, it's still pretty good and it can be further improved by swapping opamps for some better ones and/or adding an external dac/amp



Ah I see, I was hoping it would be great as is without needing to be tweaked. I am not opposed to op amp rolling, tried my hands with that when I used to own the xDuoo XD-05. I will wait and see if Creative decides to make an X7 version 2.



mindbomb said:


> Yea, there was that one crytek game that came with vss enabled by default, and people didn't really complain about the audio quality, which indicates to me that when people don't have a point of reference for how the game "should" sound, they don't complain about vss sound quality at all. In other words, I see it as a problem of unfamiliarity. Meanwhile, the vss objectively gives them better spatial information.



That was the case with me. I was actually unfamiliar with how it was meant to sound. A week of light gaming allowed me to acclimatize to the dolby enabled sound and I find myself easily hearing footsteps and not at all noticing the reverb or metallicish sound.



halcyon said:


> Related to this thread: at *CES2020 Creative *announced :
> 
> - *Super X-Fi Gen2* (improved version of their personlized HRTF SXFI algo, based on the data they got from 1st gen SXFI users. According to Creative: _"Super X-Fi Gen2 profile will be implemented on all existing user profiles worldwide ... perform a simple firmware update and download new profiles through SXFI app". _According to Lee, _"Gen3 is already on the horizon"_)
> - *SXFI GAMER headphone *with "more aggressive RGB lighting" (looks like SXFI Air with more er... lights, ugh + a specifically tuned SXFI profile for FPS games. Release in Q2 2020)
> ...



This actually excites me, from reading a lot of the impressions here and reviews elsewhere, the X3 might not be as good for gaming as it is for movie watching, but I am hoping the gen 2 profile might improve gaming experience. Then the X3 would be an easy buy for me. and the headset might be interesting depending on the price. The mobius is the only expensive gaming headset I would even consider splurging for at this point in time.




Edit: Phrasing


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 10, 2020)

Ok, forget the mini review. It didn't save on my Amazon, so I can't bring it up and don't wanna rewrite.

In short, don't waste your time with the KSC35 wireless. Just get the PortaPro wireless instead and buy some KSC75s with it to take the clips. The clips on the KSC35 have never been as comfy, and this hasn't changed with the wireless.

Also, the battery life is atrocious, and I can't even go through one whole shift before the KSC35 runs out of juice. The PortaPro wireless has double the battery life, so save up and get those instead.

To be completely honest, I wouldn't even go for those. After just over a year, one side of my Porta wireless stopped working/cable started to strip near the battery module. Aka, typical shoddy build quality on the cables. The KSC35 wireless looks just as bad in terms of cable quality. MY PORTA WIRELESS IS DEAD, AND USELESS NOW.

Until Koss decides to get off their arse and actually spend some time QC-ing their cables, I don't recommend ANY of them. I'm sick and tired of buying their clip ons, only for every single one to go bad within the year because of crap cables/connections and losing one driver audio every single time.

I hate it, because they're the only headphones that work for me while I work, but I'm fed up supporting them if they're not going to change a damn thing. Not to mention, but both of their PP wireless and KSC35 wireless have just a meager 1 year warranty. Best believe they WILL go bad shortly after, if it hadn't done so before.

With the KSC75, it isn't so bad because they cost so little, but I'm sure I've owned a new KSC75 every single year since I became a memeber here. Not worth sending them in for warranty when it cost almost as much to get them fixed by Koss, from shipping to warranty fee.

So Koss, if you ever get this, make a damn KSC75/35 with detachable cables. Probably something that uses MMCX connectors or something small enough. And USE A HALFWAY DECENT CABLE THAT WON'T STRIP AT THE ENDS. AND A PROPER STRAIN RELIEF EVERYWHERE. I'M DONE.


----------



## illram

That sucks.

I have two pairs of Koss Porta Pro's, wired, and one of them I really abuse as my running headphone. Been going strong for years.


----------



## inseconds99

Just purchased and HD800 S to pair with my X7 for awesome virtual gaming. I do have one question, if I buy a Topping DX7 Pro to upgrade my Dac/Amp for music. Can I go optical out from X7 to the Topping and get the awesome virtual surround but with the benefit of that amps power? Also does the optical out on the X7 do pass through, so I don’t have to disconnect it every time I want reference sound for music?

Also, anyone have information on AHG pads or Dekoni pads? I am looking for something to make the 800S to be more comfortable to wear with glasses and to add a little clamp.


----------



## Yethal

RedJohn456 said:


> Ah I see, I was hoping it would be great as is without needing to be tweaked. I am not opposed to op amp rolling, tried my hands with that when I used to own the xDuoo XD-05. I will wait and see if Creative decides to make an X7 version 2.
> Edit: Phrasing


We all do man, we all do.


----------



## Chastity

inseconds99 said:


> Just purchased and HD800 S to pair with my X7 for awesome virtual gaming. I do have one question, if I buy a Topping DX7 Pro to upgrade my Dac/Amp for music. Can I go optical out from X7 to the Topping and get the awesome virtual surround but with the benefit of that amps power? Also does the optical out on the X7 do pass through, so I don’t have to disconnect it every time I want reference sound for music?
> 
> Also, anyone have information on AHG pads or Dekoni pads? I am looking for something to make the 800S to be more comfortable to wear with glasses and to add a little clamp.


I know the G6 has that option, so I am going to assume the X7 does too.  Check the Speakers config (Setup...Speakers...Output Mode), you should see an option for "Apply Headphone Virtualization to Line/Optical Out"


----------



## jmans1981 (Jan 12, 2020)

Does anyone know which driver they used in the Sennheiser GSP 500/600 line and if there are any mods a person could do to make them faster? I'd consider camping or more in depth mods for these.



Chastity said:


> I know the G6 has that option, so I am going to assume the X7 does too.  Check the Speakers config (Setup...Speakers...Output Mode), you should see an option for "Apply Headphone Virtualization to Line/Optical Out"



That works beautifully on the G6. You could use it to output a dsp stereo signal to another DAC/amp, which means you can have SBX already apply the virtual audio stream to your next DAC, and ultimately amp, which is the use-case here. It makes the signaling a lot cleaner and allows you to use more dacs and headphones down the chain that would otherwise be unable to be in a dsp signal chain. You can do this for console as well, which I have been doing for Blackout on the PS4. Nothing quite like better components and cans for gaming.
[merged]


----------



## RedJohn456

jmans1981 said:


> That works beautifully on the G6. You could use it to output a dsp stereo signal to another DAC/amp, which means you can have SBX already apply the virtual audio stream to your next DAC, and ultimately amp, which is the use-case here. It makes the signaling a lot cleaner and allows you to use more dacs and headphones down the chain that would otherwise be unable to be in a dsp signal chain. You can do this for console as well, which I have been doing for Blackout on the PS4. Nothing quite like better components and cans for gaming.



So this way I can using my main listening amp/dac combo with something like the G6, while retaining the VSS effect? I guess the DSP stere signal being output is the same one that a headphone would receive being plugged in directly into the G6? In this scenario the G6 is still receiving the non stereo signal intact right?


----------



## Chastity

RedJohn456 said:


> So this way I can using my main listening amp/dac combo with something like the G6, while retaining the VSS effect? I guess the DSP stere signal being output is the same one that a headphone would receive being plugged in directly into the G6? In this scenario the G6 is still receiving the non stereo signal intact right?


The G6 takes the 7.1 audio, and transcodes it to HRTF Stereo, which it can either output to analog Line-Out or digital Optical-Out (up to 24/96 stereo).  If optical out, this can be passed to your DAC of choice.  As analog, you can pass it to your favorite amp, which is what I do.


----------



## pietcux

jmans1981 said:


> Does anyone know which driver they used in the Sennheiser GSP 500/600 line and if there are any mods a person could do to make them faster? I'd consider camping or more in depth mods for these.
> 
> What do you need to mod on them? Have both, like both as they are.
> 
> ...



The new X3 has the same option, here is the way to do it:





It seems to not work with the Super X-Fi mode though. Only with the standard SBX.


----------



## RedJohn456

pietcux said:


> The new X3 has the same option, here is the way to do it:
> 
> 
> It seems to not work with the Super X-Fi mode though. Only with the standard SBX.




I wasnt sure about this but does the X3 have normal VSS outside of Super X-fi? As in I can still use dolby from my games without using Super Xfi and using SBX instead?


----------



## pietcux

RedJohn456 said:


> I wasnt sure about this but does the X3 have normal VSS outside of Super X-fi? As in I can still use dolby from my games without using Super Xfi and using SBX instead?


It comes with the standard SBX sofftware suite, I think the latest and gratest version plus the Super X-fi. For that you need to have an extra chip which the X3 has. 
So yoes your standard SBX is all there and available.


----------



## RedJohn456

pietcux said:


> It comes with the standard SBX sofftware suite, I think the latest and gratest version plus the Super X-fi. For that you need to have an extra chip which the X3 has.
> So yoes your standard SBX is all there and available.



Thanks for the clarification, means I can use the standard SBX suite for gaming and the Super X-fi for video watching


----------



## pietcux

RedJohn456 said:


> Thanks for the clarification, means I can use the standard SBX suite for gaming and the Super X-fi for video watching


You might want to try the Super X-Fi for gaming too. There is a risk that you might like it.


----------



## RedJohn456

pietcux said:


> You might want to try the Super X-Fi for gaming too. There is a risk that you might like it.



That is true, Is the mix amp feature on the X3 well implemented? I like plugging in my phone and listening to podcasts and twitch streams while I play and use the computer. After doing a bit of research it seems that the X3 has a habit of resetting its settings - I wonder how widespread that is, it certainly would be a pain in the rear to keep adjusting settings. Nonetheless, as soon as it is on amazon prime Canada, I intend on getting it. As it stands, out of the X3, X7, G5, and G6, only the G5 is on amazon prime. I really hope the X3 comes to amazon prime soon as the 2nd gen X-fi impressions from CES 2020 seem amazing!


----------



## inseconds99 (Jan 13, 2020)

Looking to get rid of VSS and go full on stereo for my HD800S on my PC/XOX/PS4PRO. I feel like I’m not getting the highest quality sound out of my headphones because of all the processing. I am looking for some help on how I get the most direct unaltered stereo sound out of each console and PC. What settings should I be using on both devices to achieve this. I also want to try in game headphone processing to hear how that compares to SBX. As of now I am not happy with SBX and HD800S as I don’t hear as distinct of an advantage as others are describing with HD800S.


----------



## Yethal

inseconds99 said:


> Looking to get rid of VSS and go full on stereo for my HD800S on my PC/XOX/PS4PRO. I feel like I’m not getting the highest quality sound out of my headphones because of all the processing. I am looking for some help on how I get the most direct unaltered stereo sound out of each console and PC. What settings should I be using on both devices to achieve this. I also want to try in game headphone processing to hear how that compares to SBX. As of now I am not happy with SBX and HD800S as I don’t hear as distinct of an advantage as others are describing with HD800S.


Regular stereo will give you even less of an advantage. But if you really want to then just buy a dac/amp with both optical and ub inputs and plug hd800s directly to that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'd mod the PS4's HDMI and feed the audio through a custom I2S Design with a Dual ESS9038Pro DAC attached to it and a tube output section after the conversion for maximum holographicness. 

It's the only way to defeat a blindfolded MLE sporting Porta Pros on his Mixamp 5.8 on a lazy, rainy Sunday afternoon.


----------



## inseconds99

Yethal said:


> Regular stereo will give you even less of an advantage. But if you really want to then just buy a dac/amp with both optical and ub inputs and plug hd800s directly to that.


What are the optimal settings in the Xbox or PlayStation for VSS and Stereo? Is it bitstream DD for VSS and Uncompressed Stereo or should I not be using bitstream? Also any advantage in using Dolby Atmos or windows sonic settings in Xbox?


----------



## Yethal

Just set it to output regular stereo pcm, bitstream is to be used only if you want the X7 to process it with SBX. Although now that I've seen your sig I suspect the reason you're not getting expected results with your hd800s is that you're trying to drive them with an X7.


----------



## pietcux

Yethal said:


> Just set it to output regular stereo pcm, bitstream is to be used only if you want the X7 to process it with SBX. Although now that I've seen your sig I suspect the reason you're not getting expected results with your hd800s is that you're trying to drive them with an X7.


Now that I own the X3 I use it to power my HD800. It works quite well. Not audiophile endgame, but quite well. I talk about stereo use for music here. Why should a X7 be a problem with sound from a console then?


----------



## Yethal

Fegefeuer said:


> I'd mod the PS4's HDMI and feed the audio through a custom I2S Design with a Dual ESS9038Pro DAC attached to it and a tube output section after the conversion for maximum holographicness.
> 
> It's the only way to defeat a blindfolded MLE sporting Porta Pros on his Mixamp 5.8 on a lazy, rainy Sunday afternoon.


Pure silver cables improve positional accuracy #confirmedinfo.


pietcux said:


> Now that I own the X3 I use it to power my HD800. It works quite well. Not audiophile endgame, but quite well. I talk about stereo use for music here. Why should a X7 be a problem with sound from a console then?


The amp is rather weak, especially considering the 300ohm impedance that can spike up even higher. Better opamps make it somewhat better but you'd still be better off connecting it to an external amp with a higher power output


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> I'd mod the PS4's HDMI and feed the audio through a custom I2S Design with a Dual ESS9038Pro DAC attached to it and a tube output section after the conversion for maximum holographicness.
> 
> It's the only way to defeat a blindfolded MLE sporting Porta Pros on his Mixamp 5.8 on a lazy, rainy Sunday afternoon.



I'm still so angry at Koss, I can't even laugh at this atm.


----------



## mindbomb

I know this is headfi, and people are obsessive over dac and amp quality, but let's be real here; as long as you put it a modicum of effort into keeping noise, distortion, and output impedance in check, and you don't have volume issues, then your dac and amp are fine. I'm skeptical that an x7 owner has to do any upgrades for any practical benefits.


----------



## mindbomb

inseconds99 said:


> Looking to get rid of VSS and go full on stereo for my HD800S on my PC/XOX/PS4PRO. I feel like I’m not getting the highest quality sound out of my headphones because of all the processing. I am looking for some help on how I get the most direct unaltered stereo sound out of each console and PC. What settings should I be using on both devices to achieve this. I also want to try in game headphone processing to hear how that compares to SBX. As of now I am not happy with SBX and HD800S as I don’t hear as distinct of an advantage as others are describing with HD800S.



Well, the games internally have surround sound, they just annihilate a lot of spatial information when it gets converted to stereo. So I don't think the way you characterized stereo as "unaltered" makes any sense. There is a bit of a learning curve with vss. My advice is, assuming you set everything up correctly, stick with it for a couple of days, and then you will get used to it. Remember, the advantage of vss is that front and back can be distinct in ways that are not possible in stereo.


----------



## inseconds99

mindbomb said:


> Well, the games internally have surround sound, they just annihilate a lot of spatial information when it gets converted to stereo. So I don't think the way you characterized stereo as "unaltered" makes any sense. There is a bit of a learning curve with vss. My advice is, assuming you set everything up correctly, stick with it for a couple of days, and then you will get used to it. Remember, the advantage of vss is that front and back can be distinct in ways that are not possible in stereo.


I don’t know if I have the settings on my PS4 pro or Xbox one X set correctly. I have everything setup through optical, but what settings are correct on the consoles end in order to get optimal VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think with the HD800s it's less about power, and more about matching and offsetting its least desirable traits. I would think an X7 and its neutral/bright sound isn't a good match for the HD800.


----------



## mindbomb

inseconds99 said:


> I don’t know if I have the settings on my PS4 pro or Xbox one X set correctly. I have everything setup through optical, but what settings are correct on the consoles end in order to get optimal VSS?


Someone who uses the x7 on consoles can probably give you a more detailed answer than me or correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine you want a 5.1 dolby digital bitstream from the console, headphones selected in speakers/headphones and sbx surround in sbx pro studio.


----------



## inseconds99

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think with the HD800s it's less about power, and more about matching and offsetting its least desirable traits. I would think an X7 and its neutral/bright sound isn't a good match for the HD800.


My issue isn't the brightness, its the fact that the headphone has great soundstage and imaging and I feel that whatever settings I am using are actually making it sound worse.


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> I know this is headfi, and people are obsessive over dac and amp quality, but let's be real here; as long as you put it a modicum of effort into keeping noise, distortion, and output impedance in check, and you don't have volume issues, then your dac and amp are fine. I'm skeptical that an x7 owner has to do any upgrades for any practical benefits.


If you're trying to push a 32ohm gaming headset then no, additional amp wouldn't provide that much benefit. 300ohm (with spikes) HD800s is a different game altogether.


----------



## Playstation

Ordered the X2HR’s to use with my smsl dac on console. Wonder why they’re so much cheaper than the X1’s were. 

I expect them to be more comfortable than hd5xx, but more so than beyerdynamics? doubtful


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> Ordered the X2HR’s to use with my smsl dac on console. Wonder why they’re so much cheaper than the X1’s were.
> 
> I expect them to be more comfortable than hd5xx, but more so than beyerdynamics? doubtful


As technology matures, prices tend to go down. The HD650 used to be over $600. Now the 6XX is less than $200 at times.

Supply and demand is a factor as well.


I remember buying my D7000 for $600 new. By the end of its life cycle, they were going for nearly double that.


----------



## mindbomb

Yethal said:


> If you're trying to push a 32ohm gaming headset then no, additional amp wouldn't provide that much benefit. 300ohm (with spikes) HD800s is a different game altogether.



Everything else being equal, 300 ohms will reduce the volume by 10db compared to 30 ohms. If you had more than 10db of headroom to begin with, then it doesn't really matter. If you have high impedance at a frequency because of resonance, then use a source with low output impedance for electrical damping.


----------



## Wintersun2015

What about the Beyerdynamic DT 1990 for competitive fps gaming ? 

i've seen many R6 Siege streamers/pro use it...could be an improvement over the AD700X?

Thanks


----------



## Chastity

Wintersun2015 said:


> What about the Beyerdynamic DT 1990 for competitive fps gaming ?
> 
> i've seen many R6 Siege streamers/pro use it...could be an improvement over the AD700X?
> 
> Thanks


The DT-1990 Pro has everything you want in a gaming headphone:

For competitive, use the Analytic pads with no EQ for lower bass, higher detail, fast dynamic attack/decays, excellent layering to pick out footsteps/gun cocks.  Natural soundstage for pinpointing locations.

For immersive gaming, same pads with Oratory1990 PEQ:  better bass response, cans can extend into the subbass range for rumble.  Timbre will be meaty and have impact.  You still have great detail too.

IMO, they're gaming overkill.  Which isn't a bad thing.


----------



## SierraMadre

mindbomb said:


> Everything else being equal, 300 ohms will reduce the volume by 10db compared to 30 ohms. If you had more than 10db of headroom to begin with, then it doesn't really matter. If you have high impedance at a frequency because of resonance, then use a source with low output impedance for electrical damping.


^^ This.

While it’s certainly true that better amps might get more out of the HD800s, when we’re already talking a X7 then we’re already on the path of diminishing returns and the notion peddled that the X7 is too “weak” for the HD800S is just silly.


----------



## SierraMadre

Playstation said:


> Ordered the X2HR’s to use with my smsl dac on console. Wonder why they’re so much cheaper than the X1’s were.



2 specific reasons aside from those already stated:

1. The X1s are rarer than the X2s and thus more of a collector’s item. Philips don’t make them anymore and although most reviewers and many users see the X2s as an upgrade, there is a small but vocal minority that prefer the X1 and see the X2s as a downgrade. 

2. X2s are as cheap if not cheaper than they have ever been because there are plenty on the market and retailers are trying to shift them before the successor model X3 launches (scheduled for this quarter).




inseconds99 said:


> I don’t know if I have the settings on my PS4 pro or Xbox one X set correctly. I have everything setup through optical, but what settings are correct on the consoles end in order to get optimal VSS?



Set to Bitstream Dolby Digital via optical (not PCM). IIRC, in the case of Xbox, you may need to do this twice / separately for games vs non-gaming media discs (separate settings for games and streaming apps versus non-gaming disc media). For most games this will be sufficient (go into the game’s own audio settings, if there is no option for speaker configuration then nothing more is needed, if on the other hand, there is, then you need to choose a multichannel speaker config, not headphones, stereo speakers or TV speakers). 

Also, with Xbox, make sure you do not have headphone virtualisation on (Windows sonic, Dolby atmos for headphones etc.) at the same time as Creative SBX. You can use these if you prefer but make sure it’s one or the other so SBX only or Atmos for headphone only etc. 

Finally, ensure that you have things like SBX Crystalliser, Dialogue Enhancer and Bass boost off. Start with only SBX virtual surround enabled and then gradually introduce any superfluous features you want gradually by degree according to how useful they are and how much they colour the sound. 

Lastly:

The HD800S’s are ridiculously open, much more so than other cans like the Fidelio X2 that I see you own too (I also own the HD800s and X2). This is great when you have a very quiet environment. Not so great for immersion if you have even slight interference from ambient environmental noise. Do you wear glasses? I do, with frame arms very thin and close to the sides of my face but they’re still enough to completely break the seal of the HD800s’s and compromise the holography and soundstaging somewhat. Not like the X2s with their thick plush velour covered memory foam that ensure an adequate seal even with my glasses on. As a result I tend to only use the HD800s’s when I am wearing contacts.


----------



## Wintersun2015

Chastity said:


> The DT-1990 Pro has everything you want in a gaming headphone:
> 
> For competitive, use the Analytic pads with no EQ for lower bass, higher detail, fast dynamic attack/decays, excellent layering to pick out footsteps/gun cocks.  Natural soundstage for pinpointing locations.
> 
> ...




I'm glad to hear this! thanks 


They are coming tomorrow hopefully,cannot wait to try them!


----------



## pietcux

Wintersun2015 said:


> I'm glad to hear this! thanks
> 
> 
> They are coming tomorrow hopefully,cannot wait to try them!


He forgot to mention that they look beautiful. And they are very well made.


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 17, 2020)

If someone tells you they want an open-back headphone that has the same imaging and soundstage capability as the AKG K702 but with a higher quality bass: meatier, tighter, and with rumble. Which headphone comes to mind? Open to as many suggestions as you have, no budget limit. Application is competitive FPS gaming and single player games.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Raal Requisite SR1A, it's not the same though, it's just everything you want and never knew you wanted

enjoy


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 17, 2020)

and if the budget is below $1500?


----------



## Playstation (Jan 18, 2020)

anyone know of any dc powered desktop dac/amp, with optical in, and analog eq'ing, that might pair well with the x2hr's, for a very budget friendly price?


----------



## renon9

Chastity said:


> The DT-1990 Pro has everything you want in a gaming headphone:
> 
> For competitive, use the Analytic pads with no EQ for lower bass, higher detail, fast dynamic attack/decays, excellent layering to pick out footsteps/gun cocks.  Natural soundstage for pinpointing locations.
> 
> ...



Could the xonar DGX drive these? or would you recommend a better amp/dac


----------



## pietcux

renon9 said:


> Could the xonar DGX drive these? or would you recommend a better amp/dac


I suggest a Xonar STX II if you want an internal card. The DT1990 is 250 Ohm. It needs some real amp power. Or get the small Schiit stack Magni/Modi. There are ton of options, the DGX is not very powerful.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Goodmorning guys,

I have a few questions on how to get Dolby Atmos, DTS X (or Virtual Dolby/DTS for non-enabled games) sound through headphones with the apps "Dolby Access" and "DTS Sound Unbound".
I'm just trying to figure out the basics here and what hardware I need.

So which of these would work?
- internal/external (USB) soundcard with phones cnnected to the phones out of the card would probably work but this is what I'm trying to avoid.
- would my Sennheiser GSX 1000 work with these apps?
- a receiver connected via HDMI to NVidia graphics card and using the phones out of the receiver?
- a monitor connected with phones out via DP?
- a soundbar with phones output connected via USB?
My preference would be the receiver but how would I set that up?

How do I use it from an Xbox? Normally it's phones connected to the controller I guess but would it work with the receiver as well?

Any info anyone can give me on using a receiver with PC or Xbox in conjunction with Dolby Acces/DTS Sound Unbound and how to get started would be very welcome.


----------



## Wintersun2015

Just got the DT 1990,they feel a little muddy on my O2,should i let em burn in for a while ? 

Thank you


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> Goodmorning guys,
> 
> I have a few questions on how to get Dolby Atmos, DTS X (or Virtual Dolby/DTS for non-enabled games) sound through headphones with the apps "Dolby Access" and "DTS Sound Unbound".
> I'm just trying to figure out the basics here and what hardware I need.
> ...


Any of those would work. 

-You should just apply Atmos or DTS X for headphones to the relevant audio out in your PC’s sound manager. 

-Ensure that any other VSS solutions are turned off and that any in-game settings (where speaker setup can be configured) are set to the highest number of channels available.

 Use the Dolby Access app or DTS X sound unbound app to guide you through the setup process if you are having difficulty. 

- Remember to ensure that you have the virtualisation box ticked in the Windows spatial settings and don’t try and change the sample rate and bit depth once Atmos / DTS for headphone is activated. Windows confines them to 16 bit / 44khz for some reason. If you change them it automatically deactivates Atmos / DTS.

As for Xbox you can use the Dolby Access app to guide you through the setup process for applying Atmos for headphones and DTS Headphones X to HDMI and optical output. Be mindful that for something like Netflix or Amazon Prime Atmos content, you need to have either Atmos for home theater or Atmos for headphones activated/enabled in order for the streaming app in question to list an Atmos soundtrack for the content in question.  If you don’t have it enabled then it will just the soundtrack as 5.1. 

Not sure about DTS X for Xbox, it’s not on the regular user OS builds yet AFAIK, but I think I might have heard it to be available on the Insider programme.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Thank you very much @SierraMadre !

A few more questions though if I may
- I case of using DTS:X for example on the receiver, should I choose DTS:X or DTS Virtual:X?  
- on the GSX 1000 I disable all post-processing options on the physical screen but should I choose stereo or 7.1 on that screen?
- where do you find "virtualisation box ticked in the Windows spatial settings"? I can find no box to tick there only a drop-down menu to choose the kind of virtualisation to apply.


----------



## SierraMadre

ronfifer said:


> If someone tells you they want an open-back headphone that has the same imaging and soundstage capability as the AKG K702 but with a higher quality bass: meatier, tighter, and with rumble. Which headphone comes to mind? Open to as many suggestions as you have, no budget limit. Application is competitive FPS gaming and single player games.





ronfifer said:


> and if the budget is below $1500?


Preserving that level of soundstage while also offering “meatier, tighter, _*and with rumble*_” is a tall order AFAIK even with a 1500 dollar budget. Soundstage of that magnitude tends to require open back and at least neutral if not bright presentation at least with dynamic drivers. Maybe the Hifiman Edition X V2 for a planar magnetic or on maybe one of the closed back Fostex’s noted for their soundstage on the dynamic side but I doubt you’ll get exactly what you describe for either.

If you are good with most of the way there for relatively cheap then for open-backed, the AKG K7XX combined with the Dekonii Elite Velour Hybrid pads for added warmth and bass is a great choice. Bass is punchy enough to be satisfying although perhaps not quite enough for bassheads. 



AppleheadMay said:


> Thank you very much @SierraMadre !
> 
> A few more questions though if I may
> - I case of using DTS:X for example on the receiver, should I choose DTS:X or DTS Virtual:X?
> ...


1. If we are talking about using DTS Headphone X on the PC or Xbox output then you choose neither. Headphone X is just a post processing algorithm, as is Virtual X. The difference is that the former is obviously designed specifically for headphones while the latter is designed for either upmixing a sound bar or 5.1 system into a semi-virtual 3D audio experience (with simulated height channels etc.) or upmixing non-3D multichannel content to fit a true DTS X speaker setup. For DTS headphone X should leave all post processing on the receiver off. The receiver will just be receiving a stereo PCM signal with DTS post processing applied at source (PC).

2. Not sure as don’t have one to hand but probably stereo. 

3. You need to go into properties in the sound manager control panel. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 . . .Unless that is they have removed it. Come to think of it I think I remember reading that they did and just made it automatically on by default.


----------



## SierraMadre

Playstation said:


> anyone know of any dc powered desktop dac/amp, with optical in, and analog eq'ing, that might pair well with the x2hr's, for a very budget friendly price?


Do you mean one that features actual physical sliders for EQ bands or do you just mean one that offers in-line adjustment for on the fly tweaking?


----------



## SierraMadre

RedJohn456 said:


> I wasnt sure about this but does the X3 have normal VSS outside of Super X-fi? As in I can still use dolby from my games without using Super Xfi and using SBX instead?


As others have stated, the X3 does offer SBX but given that you mention still being able to “use Dolby from games” it sounds like you mean using it with Xbox or PS to convert bitstreamed Dolby digital 5.1 into SBX virtual surround? The X3 is only compatible with the PS4 and Switch and can’t process multichannel surround from either (or any currently available console). You won’t  get the full benefit of SBX for games (or your SXFI preference for movies) as the X3 does not have optical in (it has optical-out only) and consoles are unable to send multichannel over usb (things are limited to 2 channel stereo over USB for PS and Switch while Xbox doesn’t do usb audio at all).

If, on the other hand, you meant PC, then Dolby Digital decoding is kind of irrelevant for PC gaming as PC versions of games are nearly always in multichannel PCM format rather than Dolby Digital. You can use either SBX or SXFI for games or movies, whichever you prefer.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@SierraMadre 

Yes, they ditched the surround box in Winows, I have the latest version of Windows 10.
With the GSX it seems to work best when put on stereo indeed.
I tested with the phones out of my monitor via DP and I must say I got nice results enabling Atmos for headphones.
On Xbox I did it via the headphone out of the TV screen.
I don't have a receiver in my desktop setup yet but I'll get me a cheap one so I can connect my computers and consoles to it via HDMI and go from there to the screen.
I'll either use the phones out on the receiver or connect the stereo pre-out to my desktop amp.

Thanks for you help!


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 20, 2020)

What is a closed back headphone for single player games that has similar layering, separation and detailing of open-back (K702) but packs meatier bass with rumble? My cheap closed-back gaming headset, Steelseries Arctis 7 2019, packs very immersive rumble when shooting heavy cannons or when using melee weapons that make a whoosh sound in the air, but lacks the fidelity, detailing, and separation of the AKG K702 obviously. The K702 on the other hand has a relatively thin and anemic representation of those 2 sounds described before (not sure if it's treble or bass?). So I am looking for a closed back headphone that is an upgrade to the Steelseries Arctis 7 2019. No need for a Mic. M1060c? AD99z? Mobius? Argon MK3? Fostex? or...etc? Don't get me wrong, i am not asking for the same soundstage and imaging in a closed-back as in the K702; I know there will be a compromise.


----------



## pietcux

ronfifer said:


> What is a closed back headphone for single player games that has similar layering, separation and detailing of open-back (K702) but packs meatier bass with rumble? My cheap closed-back gaming headset, Steelseries Arctis 7 2019, packs very immersive rumble when shooting heavy cannons or when using melee weapons that make a whoosh sound in the air, but lacks the fidelity, detailing, and separation of the AKG K702 obviously. The K702 on the other hand has a relatively thin and anemic representation of those 2 sounds described before (not sure if it's treble or bass?). So I am looking for a closed back headphone that is an upgrade to the Steelseries Arctis 7 2019. No need for a Mic. M1060c? AD99z? Mobius? Argon MK3? Fostex? or...etc? Don't get me wrong, i am not asking for the same soundstage and imaging in a closed-back as in the K702; I know there will be a compromise.


You might want to try the Mobius. If so order it with the new gel pads for comfort.


----------



## SierraMadre

ronfifer said:


> What is a closed back headphone for single player games that has similar layering, separation and detailing of open-back (K702) but packs meatier bass with rumble? My cheap closed-back gaming headset, Steelseries Arctis 7 2019, packs very immersive rumble when shooting heavy cannons or when using melee weapons that make a whoosh sound in the air, but lacks the fidelity, detailing, and separation of the AKG K702 obviously. The K702 on the other hand has a relatively thin and anemic representation of those 2 sounds described before (not sure if it's treble or bass?). So I am looking for a closed back headphone that is an upgrade to the Steelseries Arctis 7 2019. No need for a Mic. M1060c? AD99z? Mobius? Argon MK3? Fostex? or...etc? Don't get me wrong, i am not asking for the same soundstage and imaging in a closed-back as in the K702; I know there will be a compromise.


If you decide to try the Mobius, ensure you buy from somewhere with no-quibble refund/returns. Aside from the usual caveats that apply to most headphones for the individual user (comfort / fit / sound etc.), with Mobius, if you want anything approaching a big soundstage, you *have* to use the built-in Waves NX VSS personalised VSS. If you don’t like it, you can of course turn it off and just pump stereo or another VSS solution into it, but the Mobius has a rather small and intimate soundstage in vanilla stereo mode and other VSS solutions don’t synergise with the Mobius well enough to create the same magnitude of  soundstage as the built-in Waves solution does.


----------



## pietcux

SierraMadre said:


> If you decide to try the Mobius, ensure you buy from somewhere with no-quibble refund/returns. Aside from the usual caveats that apply to most headphones for the individual user (comfort / fit / sound etc.), with Mobius, if you want anything approaching a big soundstage, you *have* to use the built-in Waves NX VSS personalised VSS. If you don’t like it, you can of course turn it off and just pump stereo or another VSS solution into it, but the Mobius has a rather small and intimate soundstage in vanilla stereo mode and other VSS solutions don’t synergise with the Mobius well enough to create the same magnitude of  soundstage as the built-in Waves solution does.


Firsthand he wanted bass. The Mobius has a  clean and deep bass. And yes the soundstage is limited without VSS to begin with. But to me Waves NX is quite well implemented here.


----------



## ronfifer

Thank you. Any other options than the mobius in this regard? Does the argon mk3 achieve these requirements? Any other fostex? M1060c? Ad99z? Sony? DT770? The few reviews of the mobius on amazon.ca totally threw me off.
Just to make sure i have the right selection in my mind.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 20, 2020)

pietcux said:


> Firsthand he wanted bass.


. . . - but with an expansive soundstage. . .



pietcux said:


> Mobius has a  clean and deep bass. And yes the soundstage is limited without VSS to begin with. But to me Waves NX is quite well implemented here.



I know the Mobius has good bass. I wasn't warning him/her off your recommendation, or slating Waves NX, I think it's one of the better VSS implementations out there, but fact is not everyone likes it and if bought from somewhere that doesn't offer no-quibble returns then he/she could be stuck with excellent bass but little of the desired soundstage.


----------



## rjjasick

ronfifer said:


> What is a closed back headphone for single player games that has similar layering, separation and detailing of open-back (K702) but packs meatier bass with rumble? My cheap closed-back gaming headset, Steelseries Arctis 7 2019, packs very immersive rumble when shooting heavy cannons or when using melee weapons that make a whoosh sound in the air, but lacks the fidelity, detailing, and separation of the AKG K702 obviously. The K702 on the other hand has a relatively thin and anemic representation of those 2 sounds described before (not sure if it's treble or bass?). So I am looking for a closed back headphone that is an upgrade to the Steelseries Arctis 7 2019. No need for a Mic. M1060c? AD99z? Mobius? Argon MK3? Fostex? or...etc? Don't get me wrong, i am not asking for the same soundstage and imaging in a closed-back as in the K702; I know there will be a compromise.



I have the Argon MK2's (well the Argon version of the Mass Drop T-X0) and I use them for just about all of my gaming.  They aren't completely closed, but they isolate better than anything I currently own.  I do not like them though for Call of Duty MW.  I use the ATH-AD700X mostly, but sometimes the HD58X.  The Argon's need an amp though, so don't expect them to work well straight out of a controller if on console.  

I'd love to hear anyone who has the M1060C though.  I've got the M1060 and curious about the closed version.


----------



## headphonesonly

ronfifer said:


> Thank you. Any other options than the mobius in this regard? Does the argon mk3 achieve these requirements? Any other fostex? M1060c? Ad99z? Sony? DT770? The few reviews of the mobius on amazon.ca totally threw me off.
> Just to make sure i have the right selection in my mind.


The argons are very good headphones for bass. Yet they still sound very clear. It’s the only headphone I know of that has head shaking levels of bass while maintaining excellent clarity. The cool thing is that it’s not just bass all the time only when the music calls for it. Pretty wide sound stage decent imaging. With the zmf oval pads it comes with is not the best for competitive because the bass becomes a distraction. However if you swap perf universe Lambskin pads on them now they’re awesome for competitive.


----------



## pietcux

SierraMadre said:


> . . . - but with an expansive soundstage. . .
> 
> 
> 
> I know the Mobius has good bass. I wasn't warning him/her off your recommendation, or slating Waves NX, I think it's one of the better VSS implementations out there, but fact is not everyone likes it and if bought from somewhere that doesn't offer no-quibble returns then he/she could be stuck with excellent bass but little of the desired soundstage.


Well then let me recommend the Sony Z7. It has a big bass and a reasonable soundstage without VSS at all. He can then use the VSS he likes best.


----------



## RedJohn456

pietcux said:


> Well then let me recommend the Sony Z7. It has a big bass and a reasonable soundstage without VSS at all. He can then use the VSS he likes best.



Ditto on the Z7, it has a nice mellow sound signature. I owned a Z5 and even that was really nice for gaming. I regret selling my Z5 and EX1000 (I left this hobby 2 years ago and just came back thanks to PC gaming lol, I used to talk to you about sony gears back in the day, been awhile!).

@ronfifer Some other closed backs or semi open: Audioquest Nighthawks and Nightowl, as well as Sennheiser HD 630VB. The Audioquest headphones go for really cheap on the used market and the sennheiser one has a bass dial IIRC.


----------



## pietcux

RedJohn456 said:


> Ditto on the Z7, it has a nice mellow sound signature. I owned a Z5 and even that was really nice for gaming. I regret selling my Z5 and EX1000 (I left this hobby 2 years ago and just came back thanks to PC gaming lol, I used to talk to you about sony gears back in the day, been awhile!).
> 
> @ronfifer Some other closed backs or semi open: Audioquest Nighthawks and Nightowl, as well as Sennheiser HD 630VB. The Audioquest headphones go for really cheap on the used market and the sennheiser one has a bass dial IIRC.


Welcome back then my friend.


----------



## Chastity

My gaming headset is now complete.  







Added an Antilon Modmic Uni, and snaked the mic cable through the coiled stock cable. Mic plugged into the G6, and since I don't adjust main volume off the G6, I can keep the kewl red LED lighting for the mic volume up 24/7.  Darth Vader Girl approves.


----------



## Playstation

SierraMadre said:


> Do you mean one that features actual physical sliders for EQ bands or do you just mean one that offers in-line adjustment for on the fly tweaking?



Analog knobs/sliders. Don’t know about in-line. The other thing. I’ve only seen some with bass and treble knobs only. Though I haven’t looked very hard.


----------



## Playstation

Got my X2HR. Too soon for any sound impressions. 

What I am curious about is any type of DIY mod for the inner headband elasticity. I wear glasses. With the clamp against my ears, coupled with the scrunching/pulling of the elastic in the inner headband. This creates for mild discomfort. 

What I’m thinking is. Instead of somehow permanently stretching out the elasticity of the inner headband. I rather figure out an optimal way to hold the inner headband at a desired position and fasten it to the outer headband. That way the inner headband sits exactly where I want it at all times, while also alleviating the pressure/pull caused both to the top of my head and my ears. 

Suggestions/recommendations are appreciated.


----------



## RedJohn456 (Jan 21, 2020)

I have spent a great deal of time reading through as much of the thread as possible and have learned a great deal about gaming audio and getting the most out of my pc games, from an audio perspective.

I have decided that I will be returning my Astro mix amp pro that I recently got. After much deliberation I have narrowed it down to either the soundblaster x3 or g6.

I have a basic idea of how each works but for the life of me I have no idea which one will be the better choice for my needs. For reference, I mainly play shooters like battlefield or call of duty, as well as the occasional story driven game.

I would love some input from the folks in this thread. Thanks in advance


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 22, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Thank you. Any other options than the mobius in this regard? Does the argon mk3 achieve these requirements? Any other fostex? M1060c? Ad99z? Sony? DT770? The few reviews of the mobius on amazon.ca totally threw me off.
> Just to make sure i have the right selection in my mind.


I’ll toss another relatively inexpensive candidate into the ring, not closed back but perhaps they don’t need to be after all. Seeing as you say this is for single player only (and perhaps movies?) and you are willing to trade some soundstage and precision in exchange for bass, reserving your K702 for competitive duties, how about the Philips Fidelio X2s?

You can get them new from Amazon for around 120-130 so no risk of having to buy secondhand and being stuck with them if you don’t like them. They are excellent all-rounders with an uncommon amount of thump and boom for dynamic driver open-backs, excellent soundstage that lends itself very well to VSS and decent imaging all combining to create a cinematically full-bodied experience.

 FWIW, my gaming headphones on rotation are the HD800s, K7XX with Dekoni Elite Hybrid Pads and Fidelio X2s, and while I would never claim the X2s to be the best, they are my favourites and the ones that see the most use for single player games and movies / TV shows.
The K7xx and the HD800s have better layering, separation, articulation, holography and expansiveness of soundstage but the X2s feel more full bodied, like I am being transported to the environment in question rather than just having cues layered around my in-situ listening environment.  That is due to a combination of the bass and also the greater isolation of the cans (none are closed back but the X2s give a much greater sense of enclosure and isolation, letting less sound in from outside).


----------



## SierraMadre

RedJohn456 said:


> I have spent a great deal of time reading through as much of the thread as possible and have learned a great deal about gaming audio and getting the most out of my pc games, from an audio perspective.
> 
> I have decided that I will be returning my Astro mix amp pro that I recently got. After much deliberation I have narrowed it down to either the soundblaster x3 or g6.
> 
> ...


X3 can’t be beat for versatility but despite several patches there are plenty of complaints about the SXFI implementation. I own both the X3 and SXFI Amp (both fully updated to latest drivers and firmware etc.’ and the audio quality of the SXFI on X3 is noticeably worse for rear cues on the X3 despite all other variables being the same. Also center channel depth projection feels worse on the headphones I have tried it with (HD800S, K7XX with Dekoni Hybrids and Fidelio X2s).

If you want SXFI, either go with the AMP or wait a bit to see if they can iron out the issues. In terms of audio quality irrespective of VSS, the G6 is the best of the lot but obviously lacks SXFI and analogue 7.1 out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2020)

Hey guys, when you go to the first page, do my two guide posts show up? Because for me, they're not there until I click on an arrow on the left side (rather upon loading they're there, and thgen disappear when the page fully loads). I'd venture if it's like this for others, they wouldn't know the guide was even there?* I don't like this...

This will undoubtedly impact the guide...*


----------



## Wintersun2015

Chastity said:


> My gaming headset is now complete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sick setup mate!

I got the Dt 1990 too recently...The G6 isnt enough to power them right ? Also For which fps games do you play with it?

Thanks.


----------



## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey guys, when you go to the first page, do my two guide posts show up? Because for me, they're not there until I click on an arrow on the left side (rather upon loading they're there, and thgen disappear when the page fully loads).



They work fine for me apart from some missing images, on both Waterfox and Chrome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The missing images are because the image host I used at the time no longer existrs. Sadly, I'll have to fiund some generic images to replace them with, and just upoad directly to the headfi's own attachment system.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm stupid. A few weeks ago, I set up a couple of keyword blockers on Chrome because of a massive FFVII spoiler leak.

My guides have a bunch of spoiler codes on them, and thus... the result was my entire posts were blocked. Lol. False alarm.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 22, 2020)

Super X-Fi Gen 2 update impressions:​
Obviously this is for my own head map so your own mileage may vary. I did not take a new head map for Gen 2 (might try that later) but the SXFI algorithm update has been automatically applied to existing head map profiles anyway.

SXFI Amp, no EQ other than Creative’s own SXFI-headphone profiles:


Fidelio X2:
- Reverb still noticeable,  particularly for alto and tenor voices, rain and running water effects etc., but is tamed subtly but significantly enough to the point where it’s now tolerable for me. Now, it’s no more intrusive than say Dolby Headphone and is way less than something like CMSS.​

AKG K7XX + Dekoni Elite Hybrid pads:
- As above but less noticeable still.
It’s possible that the difference is at least in part just a beneficial side-effect of the K7xx SXFI compensation profile for the stock K7XX not quite matching fully with my Dekoni pad-‘modded’ pair but other than the Fidelio X2s, I don’t have to hand another set of headphones that exactly match a Creative SXFI profile (can’t find the stock pads for my K7XX) so unfortunately I can’t test this notion further at present.​

Senn HD800S’s:
- Best of the lot, reverb on the aforementioned effects only obvious if I am immediately coming off another VSS solution with less reverb or switching from vanilla stereo. Again, could just be a beneficial side-effect of SXFI compensation profile not matching entirely with my pair (SXFI profile is for vanilla HD800, there is no HD800*S* profile).​
- All of the above also had noticeably better center channel depth projection than Gen 1 SXFI.


Sound Blaster X3, using same USB port and same cable as with AMP, no EQ other than Creative’s SXFI headphone profiles:

- Broadly as above but noticeably more reverb and ‘nasal’ sounding with each set of cans, rear channel in particular (see below).

Centre channel depth projection feels about equivalent to SXFI *Gen 1* on the AMP which for me was decent but not remarkably so.

Rear channel depth projection is very good and actually feels a bit deeper than _*Gen 2*_ on the Amp but that could just be placebo. What wasn’t placebo however, is that rears were very noticeably off in terms of fidelity by comparison, very reverby and artificial sounding in comparison to Gen 2 on the AMP. In fact, I’d say even Gen 1 on the AMP is better than Gen 2 on X3.

Conclusion

Overall, am pleased with Gen 2 on the AMP and am optimistic about the forthcoming Gen 3. Boom 3D and Waves NX (with headtracker) are my preferred 5.1/7.1 VSS solutions on PC but I think I’ll be adding SXFI into rotation now, something I wasn’t inclined to do with Gen 1.

SXFI on the Sound Blaster X3 however, still has some way to go and I wouldn’t recommend it for that purpose at present.


----------



## illram

Interesting. I wonder if the X3 vs. the dongle is a hardware issue or something they can push out a patch for. (I'd be surprised if it is not software related.)

I also use the HD800 profile for my HD800S, and it sounds great.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 22, 2020)

illram said:


> Interesting. I wonder if the X3 vs. the dongle is a hardware issue or something they can push out a patch for. (I'd be surprised if it is not software related.)
> 
> I also use the HD800 profile for my HD800S, and it sounds great.


It’s pretty insane how powerful the AMP/dongle is and how well it works with the HD800S. It has a generally better DAC component than the X3, I wonder if the h.phone amp component is better too?

As for SXFI on X3, it’s been the subject of complaints for sometime now. They’ve pushed out a few patches in response I think, but the issue appears to be far from sorted. In fact, my memory of Gen 1 rear fidelity on the X3 is not as bad as Gen 2 appears to currently be on X3.

It does have a couple of software advantages over the AMP and the G6 though:


SXFI Control for the AMP still lacks channel balance adjustment for those with mismatched cans or ears so presently the only way to adjust SXFI channel balance natively on Windows is on X3 via SXFI command. AMP users presently need to use some kind of middleware like Equaliser APO to get the same result.


Sound Blaster Command also offers a +/- pre-amp gain setting for EQ, something that neither the AMP’s SXFI Control or the G6’s Sound Blaster Connect offer.

They should fold SB Connect and SXFI Control into Sound Blaster Command. The SXFI tab could just be left inactive for G6 and the SBX tab inactive for the AMP.


----------



## illram

SierraMadre said:


> It’s pretty insane how powerful the AMP/dongle is and how well it works with the HD800S. It has a generally better DAC component than the X3, I wonder if the h.phone amp component is better too?
> 
> As for SXFI on X3, it’s been the subject of complaints for sometime now. They’ve pushed out a few patches in response I think, but the issue appears to be far from sorted. In fact, my memory of Gen 1 rear fidelity on the X3 is not as bad as Gen 2 appears to currently be on X3.
> 
> ...



Creative's software suites are always a confusing mess. I have 5 different Creative apps in Windows for 3 different products. I don't know why the Gen2 profiles necessitated a totally different windows app and breaking the prior one??


----------



## Fegefeuer

*BlasterX G6 Firmware 1.16*






https://support.creative.com/produc...me=external+sound+cards&catname=Sound+Blaster


_Changelog_


Fixed slow boot up on MSI MEG Z390 ACE motherboard


Fixed jerky mouse movement in the MSI MEG Z390 ACE motherboard bios config page


Fixed LINE IN unable to unmute at maximum recording level


*Added voice chat support on Nintendo Switch on selected Nintendo Switch games*


Decouple mic monitor level and mic recording level sync on PC and Mac OS


Improved power saving when device inactive for 2 hours


*Fixed RGB LED not able to turn off* in SB Connect software


*Fixed Mic level revert back to 68% upon reboot*


----------



## Chastity (Jan 22, 2020)

Wintersun2015 said:


> Sick setup mate!
> 
> I got the Dt 1990 too recently...The G6 isnt enough to power them right ? Also For which fps games do you play with it?
> 
> Thanks.


IMO I found the G6 amp adequate, but not ideal.  After comparing it to the Asgard 3, I discovered that the bass response is somehow nerfed, and that dynamics at lower levels could use a little work.  I just patched up to the new firmware, so I can do some retesting.

EDIT:  After testing the G6 amp again, the output from the amp is doing a heck of a lot better, and it's a lot harder to hear a difference.  And the amp drives the headphones louder.  So I can say the G6 with 1.16 firmware is quite acceptable.    Heck, I think my Asgard 3 is kinda redundant..

EDIT2:  After more listening, I find the Asgard 3 still better, especially with impact, and a slightly harder hitting and fuller bass.  Tho the differences is now a subtle thing, rather than obvious.


----------



## SierraMadre

Philips Fidelio X3.

UK webpage product listing now live.

https://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/X3_00/fidelio-fidelio-over-ear-headphones#see-all-benefits


----------



## Wintersun2015

Chastity said:


> IMO I found the G6 amp adequate, but not ideal.  After comparing it to the Asgard 3, I discovered that the bass response is somehow nerfed, and that dynamics at lower levels could use a little work.  I just patched up to the new firmware, so I can do some retesting.
> 
> EDIT:  After testing the G6 amp again, the output from the amp is doing a heck of a lot better, and it's a lot harder to hear a difference.  And the amp drives the headphones louder.  So I can say the G6 with 1.16 firmware is quite acceptable.    Heck, I think my Asgard 3 is kinda redundant..
> 
> EDIT2:  After more listening, I find the Asgard 3 still better, especially with impact, and a slightly harder hitting and fuller bass.  Tho the differences is now a subtle thing, rather than obvious.



Thank you for the info !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Added something for people that back me.

Anyways, I'm currently working on a new review. Just a heads up.

Bloodstained has an excellent soundtrack. Really works well with headphones.


----------



## inseconds99

Got my HD800s for my summit fi open back gaming needs. Now I’m looking for a closed back equivalent. Want something with great imaging and good (for a closed back) soundstage. I want something comfortable and non fatiguing, more for a great immersive experience. Warm, impactful and detailed but not too sharp, harsh or bright in the treble.

Z1R (leaning heavily towards these)
Ether C Flow/CX

or something similar.


----------



## Chastity

inseconds99 said:


> Got my HD800s for my summit fi open back gaming needs. Now I’m looking for a closed back equivalent. Want something with great imaging and good (for a closed back) soundstage. I want something comfortable and non fatiguing, more for a great immersive experience. Warm, impactful and detailed but not too sharp, harsh or bright in the treble.
> 
> Z1R (leaning heavily towards these)
> Ether C Flow/CX
> ...


throw the Klipsch HD-3 at you for consideration


----------



## inseconds99

Chastity said:


> throw the Klipsch HD-3 at you for consideration


Appreciate the recommendation, but I am looking for a closed back. That can is semi open.


----------



## themrmikemcd

So I have had the Sound Blaster G6 for a few weeks and I use it for my PS4 as a replacement for the Astro mix amp and I have to say it was money well spent!  Thank you all who suggested it for me. Im currently using with SHP9500s, DTT770s, and my newly purchased Fidelio X2hr headphones. 

While a bit confusing at first to operate, one you figure it out, it's really easy to use. I personally find the surround sound superior to the Astro mix amp with no hiss.  I do fun gaming with no mic.


----------



## kellte2 (Jan 24, 2020)

inseconds99 said:


> Got my HD800s for my summit fi open back gaming needs. Now I’m looking for a closed back equivalent. Want something with great imaging and good (for a closed back) soundstage. I want something comfortable and non fatiguing, more for a great immersive experience. Warm, impactful and detailed but not too sharp, harsh or bright in the treble.
> 
> Z1R (leaning heavily towards these)
> Ether C Flow/CX
> ...



I can wholeheartedly recommend the Ether C Flow 1.1. Huge soundstage, excellent imaging, nice dynamics. I know that the Z1R likely has more quantity of bass, but the ECF is no slouch.

I use the X7 with the Sparkos op-amps and a Jotunheim as the amp. Probably overkill for gaming, but it sounds so damn good.


----------



## SierraMadre

Has anyone tried the new Dan Clark Aeon 2 open-backed?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the Ether C Flow is anything like the one I reviewed, then yes. That would be the closed back I'd aim for. I think at this point in time, it's still the best headphone I've ever heard.


----------



## CFGamescape

I replaced my G6 with a Monolith THX 788. It was mainly because I wanted to run my headphones in balanced mode and I wanted something more versatile for all audio listening. 

From a gaming perspective, the THX 788 does just fine. With the DIRAC enabled, imaging is smoothed. For example, in Shadow if the Tomb Raider, if you rotate the camera around Lara, the directional sound of a waterfall in front of her is a lot more natural with DIRAC. Without DIRAC, the waterfall is more of an on/off sound as you rotate the camera.

Is it better than the G6 for positional? Probably not but it’s better at other things, so to me, it’s good enough for gaming that I won’t switch back. 

I play competitive Overwatch and it hasn’t affected me for better or worse. It drives my headphones with more headroom and dynamics that it’s worth whatever trades offs are happening vs. the G6. I try not to split hairs when it comes to gaming audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Overwatch has built in Dolby Atmos, which you should def use.


----------



## CFGamescape

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Overwatch has built in Dolby Atmos, which you should def use.


I do. With that game and with Dolby enabled in game, DIRAC doesn’t seem to make much of a difference to me.


----------



## halcyon

CFGamescape said:


> From a gaming perspective, the THX 788 does just fine. With the DIRAC enabled, imaging is smoothed. For example, in Shadow if the Tomb Raider, if you rotate the camera around Lara, the directional sound of a waterfall in front of her is a lot more natural with DIRAC. Without DIRAC, the waterfall is more of an on/off sound as you rotate the camera.
> 
> Is it better than the G6 for positional? Probably not but it’s better at other things, so to me, it’s good enough for gaming that I won’t switch back.



Let's clear a confusion (for the reader) again:

DIRAC SENSAROUND II can NOT be better than G6, in fact it can NOT even be as accurate as G6.

G6 can take in discrete 7.1 multichannel input. That contains positional audio information from 7 directions.

DIRAC SENSAURAND II inside Monolith THX only takes in 2-channel stereo sound.

No amount of trickery can somehow recreate 7-channels of diretional sound from that.

It may sound "nice" and "enveloping" and "smooth" but for positinal 3D accuracy it is worse.

As Per Monolith THX amp manual:

"multichannel audio signals.... are not supported".

THis is a common misunderstanding in 3D gaming positional audio algos.

Stereo INPUT cannot re-create multichannel sound positional cues.

Only multichannel input can.


----------



## CFGamescape

halcyon said:


> Let's clear a confusion (for the reader) again:
> 
> DIRAC SENSAROUND II can NOT be better than G6, in fact it can NOT even be as accurate as G6.
> 
> ...



Thanks, hopefully I wasn’t implying that. I was just saying it’s fine for my needs. To me, it’s just not that big a deal.


----------



## SierraMadre

CFGamescape said:


> Thanks, hopefully I wasn’t implying that. I was just saying it’s fine for my needs. To me, it’s just not that big a deal.


 If you are playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider on XBox or PC and have an Atmos for headphone licence, then you’d be better off using Atmos for headphone and leaving Dirac off (if you are using the THX) and SBX off (if you are using the G6) as Shadow of the Tomb Raider is one of the very few games that has an Atmos soundtrack. It’s the only way you’ll get Atmos height cues in VSS form from SoTR.


----------



## ronfifer

CFGamescape, I do get that surround effect of the waterfall that you described just by selecting Spatial Audio in game settings and activate Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Windows. No other AMPs or 3rd party hardware involved and using on-board Realtek sound card.



inseconds99 said:


> Got my HD800s for my summit fi open back gaming needs. Now I’m looking for a closed back equivalent. Want something with great imaging and good (for a closed back) soundstage. I want something comfortable and non fatiguing, more for a great immersive experience. Warm, impactful and detailed but not too sharp, harsh or bright in the treble.
> 
> Z1R (leaning heavily towards these)
> Ether C Flow/CX
> ...



I am definitely curious what you end up choosing; those are my exact criteria for the next closed-back purchase. I also have the Denon AH-D7200 on the list.


----------



## CFGamescape

ronfifer said:


> CFGamescape, I do get that surround effect of the waterfall that you described just by selecting Spatial Audio in game settings and activate Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Windows. No other AMPs or 3rd party hardware involved and using on-board Realtek sound card.



Cool, I’ll check it out. I admit that I haven’t spent too much time with the game, so I didn’t even bother what sound settings it has (oops). I was just using it as an example of what I experienced when toggling between DIRAC and no DIRAC with the THX 788.


----------



## CFGamescape

SierraMadre said:


> If you are playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider on XBox or PC and have an Atmos for headphone licence, then you’d be better off using Atmos for headphone and leaving Dirac off (if you are using the THX) and SBX off (if you are using the G6) as Shadow of the Tomb Raider is one of the very few games that has an Atmos soundtrack. It’s the only way you’ll get Atmos height cues in VSS form from SoTR.



I didn’t even know you could get an Atmos license. I’ll check that out. Thanks.

I do have to have to reiterate that my post above was more to do with me accepting the use of the THX 788 as a good-enough-as-is-for-gaming DAC/amp. I’m happy that it replaced the G6 as it gives me more options for headphones and other audio experiences, not just gaming.

It seems my apathy towards this subject has triggered some valid information that will improve my gaming audio with my hardware that I was unaware of.


----------



## Playstation

What does everyone think about the Behringer and Fosi brands for desktop dac/amps?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Didn't find the staging of the D7200 something to write home about, particularly depth. Impressions are a few years back though. Despite a slight treble peak it was a fairly good listen though. TH-900 is less balanced and worse in the treble tonality wise with that hotness but staging and imaging is quite superior. Much better gaming can. Both are not very isolating though. 

T5P 2nd Gen also comes with great staging and imaging properties. Classic Beyer. Timbre is off though, can also come off as metallic.


----------



## Zerufos

Has anyone had any experience with the MrSpeakers Aeon Flow and pairing them with the G6? I’m really considering pulling the trigger and pairing them with a modmic.


----------



## Lay.

CFGamescape said:


> I didn’t even know you could get an Atmos license. I’ll check that out. Thanks.
> 
> I do have to have to reiterate that my post above was more to do with me accepting the use of the THX 788 as a good-enough-as-is-for-gaming DAC/amp. I’m happy that it replaced the G6 as it gives me more options for headphones and other audio experiences, not just gaming.
> 
> It seems my apathy towards this subject has triggered some valid information that will improve my gaming audio with my hardware that I was unaware of.



Does THX 788 have optical input? That way you could use G6 and VSS optical out --> THX 788 --> Headphones for gaming. 

USB --> THX 788 for music etc.


----------



## CFGamescape

Lay. said:


> Does THX 788 have optical input? That way you could use G6 and VSS optical out --> THX 788 --> Headphones for gaming.
> 
> USB --> THX 788 for music etc.


It does have an optical input, and it's something I've considered doing, but I rather keep my setup simplified (i.e., one unit for all). If I have time, I may tinker. I did just purchase the Atmos license and am trying it out.


----------



## CFGamescape

Here's a dumb question. If I have Atmos enabled in Windows, do I enable or disable it in-game, like Overwatch?


----------



## Celty

Lay. said:


> Does THX 788 have optical input? That way you could use G6 and VSS optical out --> THX 788 --> Headphones for gaming.
> 
> USB --> THX 788 for music etc.








There ya go


----------



## Chastity

CFGamescape said:


> Here's a dumb question. If I have Atmos enabled in Windows, do I enable or disable it in-game, like Overwatch?


For best results, you enable Atmos in Overwatch, and turn on Dolby Access.  This will decode Atmos, and give you the surround HRTF.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halcyon said:


> Let's clear a confusion (for the reader) again:
> 
> DIRAC SENSAROUND II can NOT be better than G6, in fact it can NOT even be as accurate as G6.
> 
> ...


Well that's not ENTIRELY true. Mostly true, yes.

But Dolby Pro Logic II can matrix in convincing surround from two channel sources.

The Nintendo Wii had PLII and you can get good virtual surround from that. Not as good as a native 5.1 source, but definitely much better than a linear 2ch.

But yes, in general, you're correct.

PLII is old tech more or less isn't used today. Which is a shame.


----------



## ronfifer

Fegefeuer said:


> Didn't find the staging of the D7200 something to write home about, particularly depth. Impressions are a few years back though. Despite a slight treble peak it was a fairly good listen though. TH-900 is less balanced and worse in the treble tonality wise with that hotness but staging and imaging is quite superior. Much better gaming can. Both are not very isolating though.
> 
> T5P 2nd Gen also comes with great staging and imaging properties. Classic Beyer. Timbre is off though, can also come off as metallic.



Then what is your absolute favorite closed-back for gaming?


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 26, 2020)

CFGamescape said:


> Here's a dumb question. If I have Atmos enabled in Windows, do I enable or disable it in-game, like Overwatch?






Chastity said:


> For best results, you enable Atmos in Overwatch, and turn on Dolby Access.  This will decode Atmos, and give you the surround HRTF.



For games where there is a pre-mixed Atmos for headphone audio option in the game’s settings (of which Overwatch is one AFAIK), no Dolby Access licence is required. Where the user also already has a Dolby Access licence, it should be one on and one off, not both on.

Broadly speaking there are two types of Atmos for headphones: ad hoc and pre-mixed.

Ad hoc

Ad hoc is where the Atmos for headphone algorithm is applied by the host system (Xbox or PC)  to convert a true Atmos surround audio feed into Atmos for headphone or a standard 5.1/7.1 Dolby surround or PCM surround feed into what is essentially the latest iteration of Dolby headphone virtual surround. (As for a 5.1/7.1 DTS surround feed, can’t remember. I think probably, but if not, then DTS Sound Unbound would work anyway). 

 In the case of the former, my experience is that games and other media content with true Atmos soundtracks offer fairly convincing height effects/cues when converted into Atmos for headphones.
In the latter case of application to a conventional surround mix, my experience is that Atmos for headphone has better depth projection than traditional Dolby headphone but the supposed upmixing to create virtual height cues and 360 3D effects is slight if there at all (after all, there would be no such cues/effects in the original mix). YMMV here as some users such as MLE report little perceived benefit from applying Atmos for headphone to conventional surround mixes so it will depend on your own HRTF.

In any case, the ad hoc method is done via the Dolby Access app. There is a free 14 or 30 day trial before you have to pay for a lifetime licence which is good for upto 10 registered devices. Just download it and follow the setup guide process. As the multichannel conversion happens at source (the Xbox or PC), whatever dac/amp you use would not need to decode or be able to decode multichannel as it is simply receiving a pre-Dolby-Atmos’d VSS stereo feed. If the game you are playing has multichannel speaker configuration options in its audio settings then you should set it to the highest channel configuration possible. Once done, or if the game has no such audio settings like Shadow of the Tomb Raider (which just means the game engine is looking to the Windows/Xbox system settings for multichannel configuration), then just activate Atmos for headphone in your system’s audio settings and you are good to go.


Pre-mixed

This is where Atmos for Headphone is available as a pre-converted / pre-mixed audio option in the game itself’s audio settings, meaning it’s been pre-mixed into the game’s audio engine by the devs themselves. In this case, you _don’t_ need the Dolby Access app / licence. You just select Atmos for headphone from the game’s audio settings and ensure that all other VSS processing  algorithms are turned _off_ in your system settings and on any external dac/amp devices.

AFAIK, Overwatch Atmos for headphones is an example of pre-mixed. If you have a Dolby Access licence, you want to ensure that Atmos for headphones is *turned off* for games like Overwatch otherwise you will be double-binauralising and distorting / exaggerating cue placement. Alternatively, you could have Atmos for headphone turned on in your system audio settings but the in-game pre-mixed Atmos for headphones de-selected and replaced with a true atmos speaker config setting instead and see which implementation works better for you. Either way, for accuracy, it should be one on and the other off, _not_ both on.


----------



## SierraMadre

CFGamescape said:


> I didn’t even know you could get an Atmos license. I’ll check that out. Thanks.
> 
> I do have to have to reiterate that my post above was more to do with me accepting the use of the THX 788 as a good-enough-as-is-for-gaming DAC/amp. I’m happy that it replaced the G6 as it gives me more options for headphones and other audio experiences, not just gaming.
> 
> It seems my apathy towards this subject has triggered some valid information that will improve my gaming audio with my hardware that I was unaware of.


Quick question about your THX, does it offer in-line L/R channel balance adjustment? 

Thanks


----------



## halcyon (Jan 26, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well that's not ENTIRELY true. Mostly true, yes.
> 
> But Dolby Pro Logic II can matrix in convincing surround from two channel sources.



True, but that "stereo" DPLII signal already has matrix information about two additional channels encoded into the stereo signal (using masking and phase shifting). So it is not a pure stereo signal.

From pure stereo, it's not possible (at least not yet :-D )


----------



## stavros.m

Has anyone tried the HyperX Orbits. Is it like the Mobius execept no Bluetooth and i am assuming for console it will only run in stereo.

thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

ronfifer said:


> Then what is your absolute favorite closed-back for gaming?



TH-900, it's not isolating though. I'm curious for the HD 820 and Stellia but I won't be investing into any of them. Would love a HD 820 loaner but these things have time.


----------



## halcyon

Fegefeuer said:


> TH-900, it's not isolating though. I'm curious for the HD 820 and Stellia but I won't be investing into any of them. Would love a HD 820 loaner but these things have time.



For me, HD820s is the king of wide enveloping soundstage (in closed headphones), but man is the frequency response wonky. To me, Sennheiser really failed with 820s, it's nowhere near the sound characteristics of HD800S and to my ears, even Focal Elegia sounds better in many respects (FR response). Happily, neither is to my liking, so I've taken a hard pass on both.

Still waiting for somebody to do the closed fully circumaural angled-driver, fully dynamic, low-distortion, Harman target curve, wired, non-DSP, comfortable headphone right. Stellia I've yet to hear myself.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jan 26, 2020)

That's a pity about the HD 820. Focal Stellia is in a price range where I'd rather get a pair of ATC speakers.

btw, someone asked Creative about the surround percentages of SBX and what they do. The answer is indeed not very detailed and also nothing new. Kinda a pity why Creative is always so calm and secretive about their stuff. It's still decent info for beginners. 

*CREATIVE on SBX Surround Percentages of the BlasterX G6:*



> 3 days ago
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> ...


----------



## CFGamescape

SierraMadre said:


> Quick question about your THX, does it offer in-line L/R channel balance adjustment?
> 
> Thanks


I’m not aware that this is possible. What would this mean if it were?


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 26, 2020)

CFGamescape said:


> I’m not aware that this is possible. What would this mean if it were?


It just means the gain for left and right stereo channels can either be adjusted independently or a degree of bias favoring one or the other can be set. Useful for those with mismatched cans, mismatched ears or mismatched content (mismatched as in imbalanced).


----------



## MannyWins

Question on Dolby Atmos Headphones:  Do i need a 5.1/7.1 signal or is two channel giving me the proper "virtualization"??  Connecting my Astro MixAmp via optical and choosing Atmos Headphones, it defaults Windows back to a two channel signal instead of DDL and connecting via USB, Windows defaults the sound setting to two channel without being able to change it.  Is this normal?!


----------



## SierraMadre

MannyWins said:


> Question on Dolby Atmos Headphones:  Do i need a 5.1/7.1 signal or is two channel giving me the proper "virtualization"??  Connecting my Astro MixAmp via optical and choosing Atmos Headphones, it defaults Windows back to a two channel signal instead of DDL and connecting via USB, Windows defaults the sound setting to two channel without being able to change it.  Is this normal?!


Yes, it’s normal.


----------



## MannyWins

SierraMadre said:


> Yes, it’s normal.



In that case, can I hook up any headphone amp to my PC to push my 770 PRO 250ohm and still get the advantage of Atmos headphone??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You only see two channels on Atmos, because the signal has already been pre-mixed down to two channels like every vss works. Its just that with things like the G6, it gets mixed down at the hardware level, not at the driver level like Atmos on Windows.


----------



## MannyWins

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You only see two channels on Atmos, because the signal has already been pre-mixed down to two channels like every vss works. Its just that with things like the G6, it gets mixed down at the hardware level, not at the driver level like Atmos on Windows.



Am i better off with the G6 on PC and leave my MixAmp for PS4??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MannyWins said:


> Am i better off with the G6 on PC and leave my MixAmp for PS4??



That's not a bad idea, and it's what I do. I have my G6 setup for my PC, and my Mixamp 5.8 converting anything connected to my TV that does Dolby Digital 5.1 for Dolby Headphone. Since my PC can't send DD 5.1 through hdmi to my TV, I can't get proper DH with it. But the Ps4 and whatever else I connect to my TV has that option, I'm covered.

Of course this is if you're TV has Dolby Digital passthrough. Some don't.


----------



## Playstation

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone tried the HyperX Orbits. Is it like the Mobius execept no Bluetooth and i am assuming for console it will only run in stereo.
> 
> thanks



As far as fit. I tried the Clouds. I don’t believe I have a huge head. Though, I felt the headband didn’t extend down very far. Maybe with the construction of the Orbits being totally different, they might fit better. Either way, sound or fit, you should try them out yourself.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 27, 2020)

Playstation said:


> As far as fit. I tried the Clouds. I don’t believe I have a huge head. Though, I felt the headband didn’t extend down very far. Maybe with the construction of the Orbits being totally different, they might fit better. Either way, sound or fit, you should try them out yourself.


The Clouds and Orbits may as well be two different companies, because they are. The Orbit is an Audeze headphone. The Cloud isn't. So you can't extrapolate fit, comfort, from this because they have nothing in common other than them being sold by Kingston.


----------



## SierraMadre

MannyWins said:


> In that case, can I hook up any headphone amp to my PC to push my 770 PRO 250ohm and still get the advantage of Atmos headphone??



Yes. You just enable/apply Atmos For headphone in the Windows audio settings to whatever device is acting as DAC to feed the amp in question. That would be your sound card or onboard sound chip or whatever external USB device such as the G6 or ASTRO Mixamp. 



MannyWins said:


> Am i better off with the G6 on PC and leave my MixAmp for PS4??



That’s up to you. For PC the G6 is a better choice because it is a more powerful and versatile dac/amp than the Astro for audio quality and fx features but for PS4, the G6 can’t do Dolby Headphone virtual surround by itself and obviously the Astro can’t do SBX, so ggo with whatever VSS solution you prefer for PS4.


----------



## MannyWins

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's not a bad idea, and it's what I do. I have my G6 setup for my PC, and my Mixamp 5.8 converting anything connected to my TV that does Dolby Digital 5.1 for Dolby Headphone. Since my PC can't send DD 5.1 through hdmi to my TV, I can't get proper DH with it. But the Ps4 and whatever else I connect to my TV has that option, I'm covered.
> 
> Of course this is if you're TV has Dolby Digital passthrough. Some don't.





SierraMadre said:


> Yes. You just enable/apply Atmos For headphone in the Windows audio settings to whatever device is acting as DAC to feed the amp in question. That would be your sound card or onboard sound chip or whatever external USB device such as the G6 or ASTRO Mixamp.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s up to you. For PC the G6 is a better choice because it is a more powerful and versatile dac/amp than the Astro for audio quality and fx features but for PS4, the G6 can’t do Dolby Headphone virtual surround by itself and obviously the Astro can’t do SBX, so ggo with whatever VSS solution you prefer for PS4.



I really appreciate both of your help on this.


----------



## Playstation (Jan 27, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Clouds and Orbits may as well be two different companies, because they are. The Orbit is an Audeze headphone. The Cloud isn't. So you can't extrapolate fit, comfort, from this because they have nothing in common other than them being sold by Kingston.



I was only comparing the two hyperx headsets. Both of which are at the hyperx website. As for the Audeze, no idea. Never tried them.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Clouds and Orbits may as well be two different companies, because they are. The Orbit is an Audeze headphone. The Cloud isn't. So you can't extrapolate fit, comfort, from this because they have nothing in common other than them being sold by Kingston.



any chance you played with the orbit since you reviewed the Mobius


----------



## Playstation

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone tried the HyperX Orbits. Is it like the Mobius execept no Bluetooth and i am assuming for console it will only run in stereo.
> 
> thanks



This is what the website says about the audio of the hyperx orbits.

“ Get amazing audio across multiple devices — PC, PS4™, Xbox One™1, Mac®, Mobile device3, and Nintendo Switch™. The 3D audio technology is built into the headset, so no additional adapters are needed.”


----------



## deadchip12

I only see everyone here discuss about vss in game. What about movies? Most movies nowadays have truehd - dolby atmos track, but there’s no media player on pc can decode that properly to make it work with dolby atmos for headphone, so technically we lose the height channel data. Movies & TV app can decode atmos but only dolby digital plus - dolby atmos, not truehd - dolby atmos. Very disappointing.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 29, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I only see everyone here discuss about vss in game. What about movies?


 Perhaps because the title of this thread is “Mad Lust Envy’s _Gaming_ Headphone Guide” . . .?



deadchip12 said:


> What about movies? Most movies nowadays have truehd - dolby atmos track, but there’s no media player on pc can decode that properly to make it work with dolby atmos for headphone, so technically we lose the height channel data.



Incorrect. It is doable on PC, just rather difficult and expensive if you want to do it legally. 
If you want to use Atmos for headphone to get VSS with height cues from Atmos Blurays and UHD Blurays then the easiest and cheapest way is Xbox One S or Xbox One X.



stavros.m said:


> any chance you played with the orbit since you reviewed the Mobius


It’s near enough the exact same headphone minus Bluetooth. Some users and reviewers have said that the clamping force is slightly more relaxed and one or two have claimed the tuning is a tad warmer although they may be conflating that with the ‘smiley’ EQ profile which was added for the Orbits, - not sure if the Mobius got it via firmware update or not.
[merged]


----------



## deadchip12

SierraMadre said:


> Perhaps because the title of this thread is “Mad Lust Envy’s _Gaming_ Headphone Guide” . . .?



Ah yeah I missed that Gaming word. Sorry.



SierraMadre said:


> Incorrect. It is doable on PC, just rather difficult and expensive if you want to do it legally.



How?


----------



## Playstation (Jan 29, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Clouds and Orbits may as well be two different companies, because they are. The Orbit is an Audeze headphone. The Cloud isn't. So you can't extrapolate fit, comfort, from this because they have nothing in common other than them being sold by Kingston.



I’d love to know more about this. I noticed at the hyperx website that the orbits are using the audeze planar drivers. So it’s a audeze headphone branded and sold by a different company. Is this similar to a massdrop approach? i.e. more budget friendly?



SierraMadre said:


> It’s near enough the exact same headphone minus Bluetooth. Some users and reviewers have said that the clamping force is slightly more relaxed and one or two have claimed the tuning is a tad warmer although they may be conflating that with the ‘smiley’ EQ profile which was added for the Orbits, - not sure if the Mobius got it via firmware update or not.



I haven’t looked through your posts. So, I’ll just ask you here. Do you have extensive use with wireless headphones? If yes. What, in your mind would be the biggest or most common con when using wireless for long periods of time? The reason I ask is that I have only ever used wired.
[merged]


----------



## illram (Jan 27, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I only see everyone here discuss about vss in game. What about movies? Most movies nowadays have truehd - dolby atmos track, but there’s no media player on pc can decode that properly to make it work with dolby atmos for headphone, so technically we lose the height channel data. Movies & TV app can decode atmos but only dolby digital plus - dolby atmos, not truehd - dolby atmos. Very disappointing.



The Windows Netflix app (the app, not in browser) has Atmos content but I don't know if it's "true" atmos. (I didn't know there was dd+ atmos vs. trued HD atmos?)


----------



## SierraMadre

Playstation said:


> I haven’t looked through your posts. So, I’ll just ask you here. Do you have extensive use with wireless headphones? If yes. What, in your mind would be the biggest or most common con when using wireless for long periods of time? The reason I ask is that I have only ever used wired.


I have some experience but no more than many others on this thread. Latency, signal reliability and fidelity / quality are the well known cons but that will depend on the equipment in question and your own personal tolerances. It’s not an issue for many users.

 As for “using wireless for long periods of time”, I’m not sure what you are getting at by specifying long usage sessions unless you are enquiring about possible health issues in which case, I’m not the right person to ask. I have only ever used three wireless headphones and they all gave me headaches after long sessions but that was probably to do with them not being particularly comfortable in terms of fit and clamping force over rather than anything else.


----------



## Playstation (Jan 29, 2020)

TrueHD and Atmos are two different platforms. They’re not the same thing. TrueHD is better than Atmos. TrueHD Atmos doesn’t exist.



SierraMadre said:


> I have some experience but no more than many others on this thread. Latency, signal reliability and fidelity / quality are the well known cons but that will depend on the equipment in question and your own personal tolerances. It’s not an issue for many users.
> 
> As for “using wireless for long periods of time”, I’m not sure what you are getting at by specifying long usage sessions unless you are enquiring about possible health issues in which case, I’m not the right person to ask. I have only ever used three wireless headphones and they all gave me headaches after long sessions but that was probably to do with them not being particularly comfortable in terms of fit and clamping force over rather than anything else.



No health concerns. How long can you play before needing to charge them?



deadchip12 said:


> I only see everyone here discuss about vss in game. What about movies? Most movies nowadays have truehd - dolby atmos track, but there’s no media player on pc can decode that properly to make it work with dolby atmos for headphone, so technically we lose the height channel data. Movies & TV app can decode atmos but only dolby digital plus - dolby atmos, not truehd - dolby atmos. Very disappointing.



itunes, netflicks, amazon video, vudu all have atmos
[merged]


----------



## deadchip12

Playstation said:


> TrueHD and Atmos are two different platforms. They’re not the same thing. TrueHD is better than Atmos. TrueHD Atmos doesn’t exist.


It’s truehd 7.1 stream carrying dolby atmos metadata


----------



## Playstation (Jan 27, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> It’s truehd 7.1 stream carrying dolby atmos metadata



Let me get this right. So you get truehd with the dolby atmos experience? Making this a truehd atmos? 

Or does it have something to do with backwards compatibility?


----------



## deadchip12

Playstation said:


> Let me get this right. So you get truehd with the dolby atmos experience? Making this a truehd atmos?
> 
> Or does it have something to do with backwards compatibility?



Yes it's for backwards compatibility. If you only have 7.1 system then it will give you truehd 7.1.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 28, 2020)

Playstation said:


> No health concerns. How long can you play before needing to charge them?


How long is a piece of string, lol. It would depend entirely on the size and characteristics of the battery in the cans in question.


Playstation said:


> Let me get this right. So you get truehd with the dolby atmos experience? Making this a truehd atmos?
> 
> Or does it have something to do with backwards compatibility?


Not exactly but near enough. True HD and Atmos are different formats in cinemas. Dolby Atmos in cinemas is the ultimate form of surround available from Dolby. True HD by itself does not offer height effects.

However, in the home AV realm, Atmos is technically not its own audio format like in the cinema, rather, for bandwidth reasons it’s just additional metadata (the information for object-based height effects and what have you) matrixed in to either a Dolby True HD track / codec or a Dolby Digital Plus one for decoding by a capable audio receiver. If your receiver is Atmos capable then you get the additional fx, if not then you get standard True HD or DD+ or the next best Dolby format according to whatever your receiver is capable of decoding, all the way down to vanilla Dolby Digital. Atmos for UHD Blurays is of the True HD variety. Streaming services uses the Dolby Digital Plus form which is compressed / lossy, again for bandwidth reasons. Not sure which one is used by the handful of games that offer native Atmos audio though.



Playstation said:


> I’d love to know more about this. I noticed at the hyperx website that the orbits are using the audeze planar drivers. So it’s a audeze headphone branded and sold by a different company. Is this similar to a massdrop approach? i.e. more budget friendly?


Kingston’s Orbit is pretty much Audeze’s Mobius without wireless as previously stated. As such, just so you know, neither of these are particularly well-suited for gaming outside of their own in-built VSS solution which requires a PC and a wired USB connection to be used to proper extent. If you are thinking of either of these for console gaming or for wireless gaming then you’d be better off looking elsewhere.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> I’d love to know more about this. I noticed at the hyperx website that the orbits are using the audeze planar drivers. So it’s a audeze headphone branded and sold by a different company. Is this similar to a massdrop approach? i.e. more budget friendly?


Audeze supplied the headphone in its entirety. Kingston likely just asked for specific tuning traits. But yes, it's an Audeze headphone supplied to Kingston. Its a Mobius without the Bluetooth capabilities and sold for a bit cheaper.


----------



## 474194 (Jan 29, 2020)

Hey Guys,

After reading this thread, decided to try out a G6.

My most likely setting would be Game Virt (LoL, Apex) Setting => Direct Mode.

I do want to experiment with Game Virt Setting => Direct Mode => Hugo2.  Not permanent just a test.

So Direct Mode completely bypasses all settings...  Is there still G6 processing involved to 7.1 => 2-channel?  I'm trying to understand why the G6 is even necessary unless it does some processing during Direct Mode.

So if it was just Game Virt Setting => Hugo2 that is no processing just stereo?

Just having trouble grasping Direct Mode if everything is bypassed.  I'm guessing Game Virt Setting 7.1 gets processed natively via the G6 (Direct Mode) into 2-channel simulated?

Thxs.  Great thread.


----------



## mindbomb

AC-12 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> After reading this thread, decided to try out a G6.
> 
> ...



What is the game virt setting? Do you mean sbx surround?


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 29, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> After reading this thread, decided to try out a G6.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by “game virt setting”? Are you talking about specific games’ in-built / pre-programmed virtual surround solution selected from the audio options in the games’ own settings or are you referring to the G6’s SBX? If you want to use the G6’s own SBX Virtual surround processing then you can’t use direct mode. You must set speaker config to 5.1 or 7.1 in Windows audio settings, turn SBX on and set surround intensity to a positive number and set any in-game audio settings to a speaker surround configuration. If there are no such settings, don’t worry. If there is a “headphones” setting, do not use it.
If on the other hand you want to use an alternative software virtual surround like the game’s own pre-programmed one (if it has one) or Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS Headphone X or something else like that then you can just bypass the G6 and go straight to the Hugo if your only concern is audio and not chat etc.

Going back to direct mode, unless things have changed via firmware, it only works on PC (not console) only accepts stereo (it will not process a discrete multichannel feed) and turns off all SBX features and processing. Other than that and direct mode’s ability to set upto 32-bit 384khz, it’s not clear whether direct mode is any different to non-direct mode set to stereo with all SBX features turned off.
*I do however have a very distinct memory of reading in a creative product manual or official staff comment on a forum that changes to the roll-off / phase filter settings beyond default will only take effect in direct mode.

Regardless, something to consider is that the vast majority of games’ audio mixes are 24-bit 48khz or less. If you want direct mode just because you can set it at higher bit depths and sample rates, then you are not actually improving the audio rendition. In fact, the higher you go beyond the native depth / sample rate, the more you risk errors and distortion.


----------



## mindbomb

fwir, apex legends is one of those games where there is just plain stereo, so there isn't good front/back differentiation. But even beyond that, apex legends assumes front facing speakers for its stereo audio, so you have further imaging problems when you use the default stereo audio with headphones. So it is a game that benefits a lot from surround sound, with its dedicated front and rear channels, and defined speaker layout.


----------



## 474194 (Jan 29, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> What is the game virt setting? Do you mean sbx surround?



No.  The in-game audio settings (stereo, 5.1, 7.1) before it feeds sbx on or sbx off direct mode.



SierraMadre said:


> What do you mean by “game virt setting”? Are you talking about specific games’ in-built / pre-programmed virtual surround solution selected from the audio options in the games’ own settings or are you referring to the G6’s SBX? If you want to use the G6’s own SBX Virtual surround processing then you can’t use direct mode. You must set speaker config to 5.1 or 7.1 in Windows audio settings, turn SBX on and set surround intensity to a positive number and set any in-game audio settings to a speaker surround configuration. If there are no such settings, don’t worry. If there is a “headphones” setting, do not use it.
> If on the other hand you want to use an alternative software virtual surround like the game’s own pre-programmed one (of it has one) or Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS Headphone X or something else like that then you can adjust bypass the G6 and go straight to the Hugo if your only concern is audio and not chat etc.
> 
> Going back to direct mode, unless things have changed via firmware, it only works on PC (not console) only accepts stereo (it will not process a discrete multichannel feed) and turns off all SBX features and processing. Other than that and direct mode’s ability to set upto 32-bit 384khz, it’s not clear whether direct mode is any different to non-direct mode set to stereo with all SBX features turned off.
> ...



I should of mentioned my confusion lies also in that I'm reading the /r/SoundBlasterOfficial reddit threads in parallel with this thread.

Some mention HeSuVi => Direct mode, so that throws me off why not just HeSuVi => Mojo/Hugo2?  Why would the G6 be needed?  I guess if you use SBX, I can see the need.  But some recommend Direct Mode, W10 Stereo.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/hesuvi/

Yes, I'm referring to "specific games’ in-built / pre-programmed virtual surround solution".  Oh, okay, unless you have native Atmos like Overwatch, I can get away with Dolby Atmos software solution to Mojo/H2.  But for LoL/Apex, I'm not sure those will work well with just a software solution.  So I would have to use SBX?

I'm not concerned about chat as we use USB Mics (A-T, MXL, Razer).

We currently have 3 Fulla2s, but I'm deciding whether to phase out into Mojo2 if released or 3 G6.

I'm looking to prioritise 1.  Positional accuracy 2. SQ.  It's a tough balance.

I'm not worried about bit depths or sample rates.

The nice thing about the G6 is I can use now and chain a Mojo2 later on.  But if it's not really needed, then I can take a step back now since I eventually have to get qty. of 3.



mindbomb said:


> fwir, apex legends is one of those games where there is just plain stereo, so there isn't good front/back differentiation. But even beyond that, apex legends assumes front facing speakers for its stereo audio, so you have further imaging problems when you use the default stereo audio with headphones. So it is a game that benefits a lot from surround sound, with its dedicated front and rear channels, and defined speaker layout.



That's unfortunate Apex doesn't have a more robust sound solution.  So your recommendation is SBX surround in this situation?  I believe the official SoundBlaster liason recommended the FPS profile, so I assume that's SBX on.
[merged]


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 29, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> No.  The in-game audio settings (stereo, 5.1, 7.1) before it feeds sbx on or sbx off direct mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you already have a software virtual surround solution and chat solution sorted then given that you already have or intend to get a more powerful dac/amp than the G6 in the form of a Mojo or Hugo, you don’t need the G6. LOL and Apex Legends should work fine with software-only stuff like Atmos for headphone from Dolby Access, DTS Sound Unbound etc. with no need for any other multichannel capable sound card, dac or pre-dac, provided those games have audio tracks for true 5.1 / 7.1 speaker setups which is what the aforementioned software solutions need to convert into true VSS. The audio apps in question make sure that Windows presents the primary audio device (the first one in the chain) as multichannel capable so that surround can be extracted from the game’s audio.

 Hesuvi is a bit different as it requires a multichannel capable primary audio processing device / source in order to create its VSS without latency. If a non-multichannel device is preferred (perhaps say because it is more powerful in other ways like your Hugo) then one can use the KS repeater method which essentially piggy backs an alternative / proxy device’s multichannel capabilities onto the desired non-multichannel capable device for processing. For example, using a G6 or even just your onboard audio chip (if it is multichannel capable) would allow Hesuvi it to create VSS in stereo PCM form to send to the Hugo or a Dave digitally.
There are a couple of other methods such as “VB cable” for when no multichannel-capable proxy is available but these are considered methods of last resort because they add latency.

So, as to your question of why people are talking about G6 in direct mode in the same breath as Hesuvi, my guess is that they are using the KS repeater method for the Hesuvi processing and sending the processed VSS in digital stereo PCM to the G6 for dac/amp duties. It’s also possible they want to use the G6’s phase and roll off filter options, and/or they believe direct mode has less latency (than standard mode even with SBX suite features turned off), and/or because they are labouring under the misapprehension that setting the depth and sample rate at 32 billion bit 64 trillion ghz squared or whatever will improve the audio of their 16/24 bit 44/48 kHz games.

So, in summary, given what you have already told us, the only reason you would need a G6 is if you need a multichannel capable device that Hesuvi can piggy back onto the Hugo or Mojo in order to create VSS without adding further latency, and/or if you want the real deal SBX rather than Hesuvi’s knock-off version (there is some debate as to whether Hesuvi accurately replicates hardware processed audio solutions like SBX and Sennheiser GSX).


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## 474194 (Jan 29, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> If you already have a software virtual surround solution and chat solution sorted then given that you already have or intend to get a more powerful dac/amp than the G6 in the form of a Mojo or Hugo, you don’t need the G6. LOL and Apex Legends should work fine with software-only stuff like Atmos for headphone from Dolby Access, DTS Sound Unbound etc. with no need for any other multichannel capable sound card, dac or pre-dac, provided those games have audio tracks for true 5.1 / 7.1 speaker setups which is what the aforementioned software solutions need to convert into true VSS. The audio apps in question make sure that Windows presents the primary audio device (the first one in the chain) as multichannel capable so that surround can be extracted from the game’s audio.
> 
> Hesuvi is a bit different as it requires a multichannel capable primary audio processing device / source in order to create its VSS without latency. If a non-multichannel device is preferred (perhaps say because it is more powerful in other ways like your Hugo) then one can use the KS repeater method which essentially piggy backs an alternative / proxy device’s multichannel capabilities onto the desired non-multichannel capable device for processing. For example, using a G6 or even just your onboard audio chip (if it is multichannel capable) would allow Hesuvi it to create VSS in stereo PCM form to send to the Hugo or a Dave digitally.
> There are a couple of other methods such as “VB cable” for when no multichannel-capable proxy is available but these are considered methods of last resort because they add latency.
> ...



Thanks for this.  I don't have a virtual surround solution and didn't consider we needed one until I started browsing this thread a week ago.  I'm skeptical about software-only solutions and looking for something more robust.  Now that I know that Hesuvi needs the G6 to process, I can justify keeping the G6.  I assumed Hesuvi was similar to purchasing Dolby Atmos or DTS Sound Unbound where a multichannel device was not needed in the chain.  Latency was another thing I didn't consider at this point.

With this info, can experiment:

 Hesuvi + G6 Direct
 G6 SBX

I was worried #1 that the G6 is just a bypass device used just for DAC/AMP and doesn't do any multi-channel processing, so couldn't justify keeping.


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## SierraMadre (Jan 30, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> Thanks for this.  I don't have a virtual surround solution and didn't consider we needed one until I started browsing this thread a week ago.  I'm skeptical about software-only solutions and looking for something more robust.  Now that I know that Hesuvi needs the G6 to process, I can justify keeping the G6.  I assumed Hesuvi was similar to purchasing Dolby Atmos or DTS Sound Unbound where a multichannel device was not needed in the chain.  Latency was another thing I didn't consider at this point.
> 
> With this info, can experiment:
> 
> ...


To clarify, when we discuss hardware versus software VSS on this thread, we generally refer to when soundcards or dac/amps process their own bundled VSS on-board. However, at the end of the day, the vast majority of VSS solutions can be processed just through Windows and onboard sound on a half-decent PC and don’t require dedicated hardware for off-board processing. Even SBX can be had in software-only form running off onboard sound. Moreover, Hesuvi  is technically pretty much just software too. All other things being equal, hardware based processing is only really better because the sound card or dac/amp involved tends to be of higher quality than onboard audio, is better isolated from electrical noise and interference in the case of an external dac/amp, or when the VSS solution is exclusively tied to the hardware like Super X-Fi, Smyth VSS, Sennheiser GSX etc.

For your first experimentation option, it would be Hesuvi + *Onboard sound chip* + G6 direct mode. . . But to clarify further, if you use G6 direct mode with Hesuvi, then the G6 won’t be doing any real processing other than digital to analogue conversion of the stereo PCM VSS received from - and already processed by - Hesuvi using your CPU. Hesuvi VSS conversion is done onboard by your PC, even when you are using an external audio device for its multichannel capable characteristics. Additionally, beyond placebo, a Hesuvi + Onboard Sound multichannel chip + G6 direct mode setup may be unnecessarily convoluted. You’d likely get the same result just from Hesuvi + G6 (non-direct mode) without involving your onboard audio chip in the Hesuvi chain. It would be simpler to setup and at least then you’d be able to use the G6 software features such as EQ and SBX’s non-VSS related fx.

In short, for pure audio quality, it may be better to prioritise dac/amp quality and apply VSS software to it than to prioritise an all-in-one solution *just* for its offboard processing.  The only exception to that would be if the G6’s SBX works better for you than other solutions or if your CPU resources are limited to the point that you need the VSS to be processed off-board.
 Dolby Atmos, DTS Headphone X, Boom 3D etc. all have free trials that are worth experimenting with and comparing against other solutions.

All that being said, the G6 is still a fine little dac/amp and SBX should be plenty sufficient for your gaming needs and the vast majority of popular headphones used for gaming. If you prefer Hesuvi instead of SBX then the G6 by itself (non-direct mode) would be fine or alternatively, you could use the G6 as the multichannel proxy for Hesuvi to send VSS to your Fulla 2 if you don’t have a multichannel capable onboard chip. Either way, unless you are using the G6’s own SBX VSS, it won’t be doing any of the virtual surround processing / conversion, it will be your CPU that does that.


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## 474194 (Jan 30, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> To clarify, when we discuss hardware versus software VSS on this thread, we generally refer to when soundcards or dac/amps process their own bundled VSS on-board. However, at the end of the day, the vast majority of VSS solutions can be processed just through Windows and onboard sound on a half-decent PC and don’t require dedicated hardware for off-board processing. Even SBX can be had in software-only form running off onboard sound. Moreover, Hesuvi  is technically pretty much just software too. All other things being equal, hardware based processing is only really better because the sound card or dac/amp involved tends to be of higher quality than onboard audio, is better isolated from electrical noise and interference in the case of an external dac/amp, or when the VSS solution is exclusively tied to the hardware like Super X-Fi, Smyth VSS, Sennheiser GSX etc.
> 
> For your first experimentation option, it would be Hesuvi + *Onboard sound chip* + G6 direct mode. . . But to clarify further, if you use G6 direct mode with Hesuvi, then the G6 won’t be doing any real processing other than digital to analogue conversion of the stereo PCM VSS received from - and already processed by - Hesuvi using your CPU. Hesuvi VSS conversion is done onboard by your PC, even when you are using an external audio device for its multichannel capable characteristics. Additionally, beyond placebo, a Hesuvi + Onboard Sound multichannel chip + G6 direct mode setup may be unnecessarily convoluted. You’d likely get the same result just from Hesuvi + G6 (non-direct mode) without involving your onboard audio chip in the Hesuvi chain. It would be simpler to setup and at least then you’d be able to use the G6 software features such as EQ and SBX’s non-VSS related fx.
> 
> ...



Many thanks for the clarification.  We only use USB DAC/AMPs going forward since the old SB internal gave out.  This gives me a lot to think about since I just noticed the Mojo sale is ending end of this week.  I wasn't thinking of getting a Mojo now for gaming since I assumed the price was fixed @399 long-term.  @499 normal price it's difficult to justify for gaming, but @399 it's closer to the G6's @120.  So I think I'm going to return the G6 unopened.  I'll experiment with software solutions in February then re-evaluate.  If LoL/Apex had native VSS, it may make sense to go with the G6.  For now it looks like I can get away just a software solution.



> In short, for pure audio quality, it may be better to prioritise dac/amp quality and apply VSS software to it than to prioritise an all-in-one solution *just* for its offboard processing.
> 
> Dolby Atmos, DTS Headphone X, Boom 3D etc. all have free trials that are worth experimenting with and comparing against other solutions.
> 
> Either way, unless you are using the G6’s own SBX VSS, it won’t be doing any of the virtual surround processing / conversion, it will be your CPU that does that.



this.  GG


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## SierraMadre (Jan 30, 2020)

I would appreciate if someone could shed light on some questions I have about double-amping in the context of SXFI.

I have a basic understanding of the potential risks to equipment and potential negative impact on the audio through double-amping . I have always erred on the side of caution with what seems to be  the general consensus that it's not ideal and better avoided unless absolutely necessary. But I have also noted some divergent opinions in either direction, i.e. that it's always a bad idea as aside from possible risk to headphones, it will introduce errors and distortion, versus the counterargument that double amping can actually be preferable and "better" for some hardware combinations provided one is sensible, knows their equipment and knows what they're doing.
I get the various arguments in principle but am confused as to where and how dac/amps with dedicated line-ins marked for mobile phones and DAPs fit into this context.

For now, going with the notion that it should be avoided if possible, my question is essentially this:

Plenty of dedicated headphone dac/amps have analogue line-in input 'officially' designated for DAPs and mobile phones. If you connect a phone or DAP via line-in to your dac/amp for onward output to your headphones, what's the difference between that and say connecting the headphone-out of one of the SXFI devices to the DAP/mobile designated line-in of a better amp?
Given that the vast majority of mobiles and probably a fair number of DAPs lack a line-out and only have a headphone out, isn't that also double-amping in and as of itself. . . ?​

Or is it just that most mobile phone amps are too weak to pose a risk in the aforementioned double-amping scenario?
But if that was the case wouldn't that still pose a problem for plenty of DAPs which typically have considerably more powerful amps than mobile phones?

This leads on to my next pondering:

Assuming it is still better not to double-amp SXFI in the above manner, would the following idea of taking the SXFI VSS analogue headphone signal and converting it back into digital form before a final conversion back into analogue for output to headphones be feasible as a work around to avoid or minimise potential errors and risks? Or would the potential for issues persist or be worse?
Would there be any new issues introduced such as added latency?

To elaborate, another dac/amp with ADC capability would be added into the chain as an intermediary between the SXFI device and endpoint dac/amp:

-  SXFI device is first recipient in chain, receiving multichannel directly from PC via USB.

-  SXFI device sends SXFI processed 2 channel analogue VSS over headphone-out to line-in (designated for DAPs/mobiles) of ADC capable intermediary dac/amp.

- Said intermediary dac/amp converts analogue SXFI signal into 2 channel digital PCM and outputs it via optical to desired endpoint dac/amp for final output to headphones.
(SXFI device at other end of the chain would have volume set to max while endpoint dac/amp volume pot would only be set as high as necessary for enjoyment).


So, yay or nay?

 If nay please advise why (beyond just "it would be a hassle" or "that requires another device and more expenditure" - I already have spare devices / equipment to try this method if it would be at all worthwhile but if there are downsides/risks and they outweigh any benefits or there would be no benefits then I'd rather not bother)

Thanks in advance.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 30, 2020)

Some phones have line out dongles, where you're not using their headphone outs. They'll use the usb port instead and send out to a dongle that when sends audio as a line out level or perhaps digitally. I can't confirm this as the last time I worried about audio quality on mobile devices this much was an old Sansa Fuze mp3 player, that I had a line out dongle for, and used with a portable amp.

As for phones double amping, I assume it's the lesser of two evils because there are times you simply can't power your headphones well enough through a phone's headphone jack. So you either get sound lacking in any real power, or a double amped signal where your headphone at least gets the power necessary for good listening levels.

As for all the scientific stuff, that's beyond me. All I kow is that double amping gives you the distortion of both 'amps' in the chain. Whether that bothers you or not, that's for you to decide. People have been pre-amping with multiple amps for years, so I don't think it's as bad as some people think, assuming the amps being used are of high quality. My only problem with this overall, is that your first amp in the chain should be along line level output. If you surpass this, you can clip the audio and make things worse.

My personal thoughts on double amping is that I'd avoid it unless it's the only way to supply a virtual surround solution. So let's say Sennheiser GSX surround. The GSX1000 can only send GSX surround through its headphone jack. The GSX1000 has a disappointing power output, so it goes without saying that I'd definitely supplement it with another amplifier. It's not IDEAL, but it's the only method we currently have.


As someone who double amped the Mixamp for years, I can't sit here and say I'd never do it. Lol. Between the choice of clean stereo, or double amped virtual surround, I'll take the latter, every time.


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## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Some phones have line out dongles, where you're not using their headphone outs. They'll use the usb port instead and send out to a dongle that when sends audio as a line out level or perhaps digitally. I can't confirm this as the last time I worried about audio quality on mobile devices this much was an old Sansa Fuze mp3 player, that I had a line out dongle for, and used with a portable amp.
> 
> As for phones double amping, I assume it's the lesser of two evils because there are times you simply can't power your headphones well enough through a phone's headphone jack. So you either get sound lacking in any real power, or a double amped signal where your headphone at least gets the power necessary for good listening levels.


Thanks. I understand and agree it makes sense for mobiles but then what about DAPs which typically have loads more power than your average phone? Are there also DAPs which lack line-out and only have headphone-out  that use dongles too? 
The line-ins on both the Creative X3 and SteelSeries GameDac are actually labelled / designated as being intended for mobiles / DAPs. In the Gamedac's case, the input is marked as "mobile" on the unit itself and in the X3's case, although it is just marked "line-in", all the official Creative literature I have seen, diagrams included, refer to it as being for mobile/DAPs.

In any case, I'd appreciate your thoughts on a second dac/amp acting as an intermediary ADC passthrough to a third and final dac/amp? My admittedly crude and not very well informed theory was that by doing that, it would no longer technically constitute the double amping of an analogue line level signal and thus might eliminate some of the possible risks and negative effects on the audio. . . but I wouldn't be remotely surprised if even if it were to achieve that goal, it might introduce new problems of its own that outweigh any benefit. . .

I did try it very briefly with a cheap pair of disposable iems just to be on the safe side and it sounded ok. The SXFI VSS survived the DAC(amp) > ADC > DAC(amp) conversion signal path ok and toggled on and off as expected without any immediately obvious problems. Still hesitant to test it further with more expensive headphones however.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2020)

I think you're overthinking it.

My Sansa Fuze dongle would connect to its Proprietary charging input, and the other end was 3.5mm, so line out. It doesn't matter if a DAP has more power than a phone. A line out is a line out. I think there's only so much power you need for line out.

Why do you want so many dac/amps in the chain? It can't be any more beneficial than just using an initial amp as a preamp. The conversion from analog to digital and back to analog would likely be even less ideal than just amp to another amp. There's still potential to put too much volume into the signal going back to digital, emphasizing whatever distortion the first amp introduced.

And yes, SXFI or any VSS survives any conversion once it's already been introduced into the chain. The VSS signal has already become the standard signal. No way to change it back.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anybody here considering to purchase the Drop + THX Panda?


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## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think you're overthinking it.
> 
> My Sansa Fuze dongle would connect to its Proprietary charging input, and the other end was 3.5mm, so line out. It doesn't matter if a DAP has more power than a phone. A line out is a line out. I think there's only so much power you need for line out.
> 
> Why do you want so many dac/amps in the chain? It can't be any more beneficial than just using an initial amp as a preamp. The conversion from analog to digital and back to analog would likely be even less ideal than just amp to another amp. There's still potential to put too much volume into the signal going back to digital, emphasizing whatever distortion the first amp introduced.


Well, I did explain why while also acknowledging that it was a crude and not well informed theory hence my coming to this board for answers.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> And yes, SXFI or any VSS survives any conversion once it's already been introduced into the chain. The VSS signal has already become the standard signal. No way to change it back.


 I knew the SXFI along with any other VSS would remain active along the entire signal path per se, rather what I meant by "survive" was that prior to the cursory test I had wondered whether DAC/amp>ADC>DAC/amp might result in any obvious additional distortion and whether toggling it on and off and back again while the aforementioned chain was live/active might result in spikes and further distortion.

In any case, thank you for your answers.  If there's nothing to gain from adding ADC in to middle of the chain via a third device then I won't bother. I might tentatively try double amping SXFI from the SXFI AMP to the THX or Loxjie P20 and see what it does with my now spare pair of X2s that randomly surfaced after a year of being lost. If there are no major issues, I might then try the HD800S's although I am paranoid about doing anything remotely regarded as risky by anyone when it comes to those given the cost.


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## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody here considering to purchase the Drop + THX Panda?


I am. . . Depends on whether I decide to give the Mobius another go with Vesper custom pads this time around or save up for the Dan Clark Aeon Open 2. I don't have any planars since returning the Mobius shortly after it launched and want a good one to round out my small collection. Whichever it is will probably be my last headphone purchase for a while with the possible exception of the Fidelio X3s if they turn out to be a marked improvement over X2's. 

In any case, after that I'll have to institute a disciplined 1-in, 1-out policy with both cans and, once the Eddie Current Zdt Jr resurfaces on Drop, dacs and amps too unless I unexpectedly get a windfall inheritance from an unknown family member I never knew I had in which case a Smyth Realiser would be my first purchase.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody here considering to purchase the Drop + THX Panda?


It's what I'm currently reviewing. Hopefully will be up within the next few days.

Spoilers: It sounds great wired and wirelessly. Bass is a little bloomy. Comfort is...okay. Needs more headband extension.

Sound quality:

LCD1 > Panda > Mobius

Only put those three because of price target, and I have them on hand. All three do very different things, so it depends on use case. Just thought I'd give a gauge on sound alone. Obviously, the LCD1 is pretty standard and open-backed, and the Mobius had a bunch of features that make it compelling as a fully fleshed out product. The Panda falling in the middle makes sense as it's also in between a standard headphone, and a product with some many extras.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2020)

Just thought I'd let you guys know what's going on in my life, if for some reason I sound different, or if I disappear for a long stretch.

My stepdad of over 20 years, had a stroke the other day, is paralyzed from the right side, and has bleeding in the brain. I'm honestly freaking out, and have a variety of feelings, but I'm trying to compartmentalize my emotions, and keep myself busy. I don't know what's going to happen to him, or how he really is atm. It's all very fresh. I was just out with him and went to dinner the night before. For me to be woken up with this was... it was a nightmare.

I currently live with him and my mother, because well, my finances and job aren't great, and they've been kind enough to help me out once all my roommates moved on to better things and couldn't afford to live alone. He and my mother have been basically my solid ground for a few years, and now... things are going to change. I just turned 37, and you can understand how it feels having to move back in a few years when I've been on my own since I was 18. But they've never judged me, and have always been there for me.

I don't know how I would be able to handle something bad happening to either of them, and would trade places with either of them in a heartbeat if I could.

So I'm just... not at the mindset of focusing on what's happening, because we just don't know what's going to happen. All I can do is hope for the best. And have to step up and sacrifice myself to whatever needs to be done if worse comes to worse.

Sorry if this doesn't have a place here. I just needed to put this somewhere, and I don't feel comfortable talking about this to my friends and family, and don't really want their consolation, so rather prefer letting it out to a group I've known for a long time, but isn't in my immediate circle. Thanks for listening.

As I've said, I'm working on the Panda review. I've written most in, just gotta do the sound sections, and take a few pictures, and edit the review. Should be no less than a few days at most, so look forward to it.


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## illram

Wow. Heavy stuff. I am really sorry you are going through that right now man. Life can be cruel sometimes.

I think we'd all understand if your Panda review was a little late....


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2020)

illram said:


> Wow. Heavy stuff. I am really sorry you are going through that right now man. Life can be cruel sometimes.
> 
> I think we'd all understand if your Panda review was a little late....


Nah, besides I have to put it out before their Indiegogo campaign closes. That's the only stipulation they asked. For impressions to be out after Jan 27, but before closure of campaign. I do wish they had sent it to me earlier, so I could have had a normal process in reviewing them.

I managed to have a burst of writing energy the other day so I got most sections done. That helps.

Funny enough that I was able to write a section tonight on a whim. Had to do it while at work, but had the thoughts in my head and immediately wrote them down before I forgot.


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## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just thought I'd let you guys know what's going on in my life, if for some reason I sound different, or if I disappear for a long stretch.
> 
> My stepdad of over 20 years, had a stroke the other day, is paralyzed from the right side, and has bleeding in the brain. I'm honestly freaking out, and have a variety of feelings, but I'm trying to compartmentalize my emotions, and keep myself busy. I don't know what's going to happen to him, or how he really is atm. It's all very fresh. I was just out with him and went to dinner the night before. For me to be woken up with this was... it was a nightmare.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that, I things improve as much as possible as soon as possible.  Thank you for nevertheless taking the time to answer my queries during such a difficult period.


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## Mad Lust Envy

SierraMadre said:


> Sorry to hear that, I things improve as much as possible as soon as possible.  Thank you for nevertheless taking the time to answer my queries during such a difficult period.


I welcome it. I'm apparently really good at putting things aside emotionally until a more proper time. Talking about audio, or geeking out about other things really helps.

I wish I had a rough draft of my review here at work. I probably would've gotten a lot of it done tonight.


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## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> I am. . . Depends on whether I decide to give the Mobius another go with Vesper custom pads this time around or save up for the Dan Clark Aeon Open 2. I don't have any planars since returning the Mobius shortly after it launched and want a good one to round out my small collection. Whichever it is will probably be my last headphone purchase for a while with the possible exception of the Fidelio X3s if they turn out to be a marked improvement over X2's.
> In any case, after that I'll have to institute a disciplined 1-in, 1-out policy with both cans and, once the Eddie Current Zdt Jr resurfaces on Drop, dacs and amps too unless I unexpectedly get a windfall inheritance from an unknown family member I never knew I had in which case a Smyth Realiser would be my first purchase.



The Mobius and Panda are the two I am considering as well at this point as I'm after a closed-back I can use wireless that will be used mainly for gaming, a movie, watching Youtube on the iPad, some general computer audio ... I have no wireless headphones at the moment. But I only need one and I think it'll be the Panda.
I'm pretty happy with the collection of phones I have (a bunch of Senns and a K7XX) and wasn't really planning to add more, just this one wireless pair.
I pre-ordered the A16 back in 2016 (the price was $1500 then) and will be connecting my consoles and computers if it ever arrives. Won't be using it for music though.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's what I'm currently reviewing. Hopefully will be up within the next few days.
> Spoilers: It sounds great wired and wirelessly. Bass is a little bloomy. Comfort is...okay. Needs more headband extension.
> Sound quality:
> LCD1 > Panda > Mobius
> Only put those three because of price target, and I have them on hand. All three do very different things, so it depends on use case. Just thought I'd give a gauge on sound alone. Obviously, the LCD1 is pretty standard and open-backed, and the Mobius had a bunch of features that make it compelling as a fully fleshed out product. The Panda falling in the middle makes sense as it's also in between a standard headphone, and a product with some many extras.



I wish you and your family much strength in a difficult time like this but never lose hope.
I had a grandfather who had a stroke and was paralyzed on the whole right side of his body at the age of 60. He remained paralyzed but didn't lose his lust for living though and found a creative hobby. He lived 'till the age of 90 and though it was a lot of work for my grandmother to help him everyday they remained a happy couple and got a lot of support from their children and grandchildren.


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> The Mobius and Panda are the two I am considering as well at this point as I'm after a closed-back I can use wireless that will be used mainly for gaming, a movie, watching Youtube on the iPad, some general computer audio ... I have no wireless headphones at the moment. But I only need one and I think it'll be the Panda.
> I'm pretty happy with the collection of phones I have (a bunch of Senns and a K7XX) and wasn't really planning to add more, just this one wireless pair.


Yeah, the only wireless headphones I currently have are the Sony Platinum Wireless which I actually rather like and the very uncomfortable and decidedly average sounding Sound Blaster Recon3D Tactic Omegas I bought way back when I was still limited to buying gaming branded stuff only and hadn't discovered the benefits of enthusiast cans paired with gaming VSS. I didn't even like the Omegas much when I got them TBH, but wireless was a first time novelty to me back then and I ended up keeping them for the bundled Recon3D dac/amp (the then THX branded predecessor to SBX which I much preferred over Astro's Dolby headphone Mixamp) as the difference in price between the with cans bundle vs just the card  by itself was only 30 or 40 due to a sale. 

Mobius was my first and only experience of planars and although I enjoyed the Mobius sound and Waves NX for the most part  (headtracking in particular), the memory foam wasn't remotely dense or firm enough to stop my ears touching the drivers which quickly became surprisingly painful in addition to the firmware and drivers being so buggy at the time that it blue screened my PC (and black screen video driver crashed my PC several times) on average at least once a play session over the course of the week I trialled it. Volume control was also all over the place and several times I had ear splitting spikes or just the slightest non-mobius related interaction  with my PC would suddenly send the windows volume to 100, that kind of horrible crap. That was ages ago though, really soon after launch and I'm sure QC and software has matured to the point that such issues have been ironed out. 

As for the K7XX, love 'em. They were just a tad lacking in bass and body for me initially but I liked them enough to want to try pad swapping for the first time and after trying to do it on the cheap with some generic "compatible" Brainwavz microsuedes which felt amazing but sounded awful, like listening to a headache, I went for the Elite Velour Hybrid iteration of the AKG K7- series specific Dekonis which resolved my issues perfectly. Now they have become the perfect counterpoint to my all time favourite Fidelio X2s. 



AppleheadMay said:


> I pre-ordered the A16 back in 2016 (the price was $1500 then) and will be connecting my consoles and computers if it ever arrives. Won't be using it for music though.



Yeah, I found out about it randomly on a forum and seriously considered getting it back when it was still a bit less than what you paid for it. Ultimately, the price (prior to that time I had never even considered spending a quarter of that amount on audio equipment) in addition to the amiable but ultimately vague and non-committal nature of Smyth's responses to my enquiries about whether VRR passthrough would be supported or could be added deterred me from proceeding in favour of waiting for the much cheaper SXFI.  

I have since learned enough about the standard to know that the Realiser doesn't and almost certainly won't support VRR passthrough short of a HDMI chipset change and probably specific  firmware modifications to support the new standard without compatibility issues between source and / or target display. Nonetheless it was still frustrating that I missed the earlier backer pricing because by the time I realised SXFI wasn't as good as I had hoped (although it has much improved since then and now I quite enjoy it), it occurred to me that I could forgo the need for passthrough in a number of ways by using other high channel count config-capable outputs to send the audio to the Realiser while sending VRR straight to the display via direct HDMI connection (e.g. USB audio > Realiser, GPU Display port > Realiser HDMI via a adapter cable, PC onboard HDMI modded to send audio only while retaining discrete GPU HDMI for video direct to TV etc.), crowd funding had ended and pre-orders were triple the price. None of the aforementioned work arounds was new knowledge to me, it just didn't occur to me at the time despite me deliberating long and hard about the purchase, so fixated was I on the notion of HDMI VRR passthrough capability at all costs. Sod's law that it occurred to me within just a minute of casual reflection on my previous decision not to buy many months prior.


----------



## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I welcome it. I'm apparently really good at putting things aside emotionally until a more proper time. Talking about audio, or geeking out about other things really helps.
> 
> I wish I had a rough draft of my review here at work. I probably would've gotten a lot of it done tonight.


Once you're done with the review, should you find yourself in a moment that might benefit from some geeking out, you should give Boom 3D VSS a go, not necessarily for review or anything, but just because you might like it and if you did, then it would give you a VSS solution to combine direct with your favoured Schiit units where their lack of optical-in and multichannel capability would become less of an issue as there would be no need to rely on Atmos or DTS X solutions or otherwise double amp should Boom turn out to suit you.  There's a free trial period so you needn't pay any money. Along with Waves NX and the recently improved SXFI, it's probably my favourite VSS solution. 

If you do try it, start with setting the 3D dial in the app to max and then turn everything off. I know you tend to do this anyway with VSS but I found that when checking some of the other features out of curiosity, it would sometimes have the effect of automatically deactivating  or altering the 3D VSS dial. That was some time ago though so maybe it's been fixed since then.


----------



## stavros.m

would something like Mobius/Orbit S be worith it over a G6 or X3 in your opionion. I am so not sure what to purchase for a mix of PC / Stadia / PS4. The other thought with the new consoles coming out i would like something a bit more future proof if that is even possible

thanks


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2020)

I have a rough draft of the review for my two or three backers, hahaha. All I'll say.

Hopefully I'll be able to get the Panda review complete by Sunday/Monday. I'll be in the hospital tomorrow after work, so I don't think I'll have time on Saturday.


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## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> would something like Mobius/Orbit S be worith it over a G6 or X3 in your opionion. I am so not sure what to purchase for a mix of PC / Stadia / PS4. The other thought with the new consoles coming out i would like something a bit more future proof if that is even possible
> 
> thanks


Honestly? I'd use no-quibble refund/return sellers to buy the Mobius and the new SXFI Theater Wireless headphones, see which you like better, and return the one you don't.
 The SXFI Theater Wireless apparently offers full SXFI processing of discrete multichannel sources via a USB sound stick which acts as a wireless transmitter for the pre-processed SXFI VSS signal and acts as an external sound card too. If true, that would make it the first new-gen 3D VSS headset to do all that wirelessly system-wide on PC. By comparison, both the Mobius and the SXFI Air do all their processing onboard and thus can only receive stereo wirelessly over Bluetooth; both require USB wired connections to PC in order to be able to process discrete multichannel source audio into full SXFI / Waves NX.

As for SXFI vs Waves, I prefer Waves in some ways and SXFI in others but find Waves to be more prone to sudden and incongruous hard panned transitions when the camera perspective shifts around busy or congested audio environments  The mobius projects depth very well and headtracking is awesome but its soundstage doesn't always feel spherical due to the aforementioned issues and can on the odd occasion momentarily feel a bit uneven and irregular. SXFI is more consistent in this respect.

I also reckon Waves NX is more prone to occasional errors in processing discrete multichannel game audio into VSS and is more easily confused by sudden changes in cue placement. It also exacerbates and exaggerates poorly mixed (by the game dev) positional cues and sometimes those cues that are intentionally unrealistically imbalanced by the dev for stylistic or practical  choices. For example, I have played a few games such as Hitman where you might be in an environment and NPCs or targets are having conversations relevant to mission intel and objectives. The games will automatically make these conversations considerably louder than ambient background dialogue, environmental audio fx and other player triggered conversation NPC cycle that are not relevant to objectives. This is fine and makes sense in theory but can cause problems if poorly mixed, poorly balanced or not thoroughly tested from all camera positions and angles.

To elaborate, using the previous example, sometimes those mission-relevant real-time NPC dialogues might happen when there is for an obstacle such as a wall between you and the source that should in theory at least moderate the increase in volume of the dialogue somewhat. Alternatively, perhaps the source is far away and there are lots of other NPCs or competing sources and positional cues in between you. You wouldn't be able to hear them in real life but in the game you can because it's a game and the devs are intentionally defying realism for ease of play purposes. With SXFI, the highlighting via volume will usually be mildly to moderately exaggerated, more than you might get in stereo or through true discrete surround  and enough to break the immersion a little if you are prone to fixating on such things. But generally it doesn't happen that often and it's tolerable enough to get used to it. With SBX the exaggeration of the dialogue or whatever highlighted source cue will be less loud although it will probably still be noticeable. SBX handles this aspect better than the others discussed here. Waves is the worst (of the three). With Waves I often found it to be so loud as to be immersion breaking. Not because it hurt my ears or anything but because a highlighted source sample/cue on the other side of a wall or far away in an audio congested environment should not be so loud as to sound like its happening right beside me with nothing in between. Other times it's the other way round, with some cues getting too quiet or drowned out completely and others getting much louder just because of a change to the camera angle.

I guess you could say the Waves NX doesn't always get what should be quiet and what should be louder right and if the original audio mix already had volume balance / positional issues, Waves will make sure you notice it much more than the other three.
I haven't owned the Mobuis for quite some time now and maybe these issues have been fixed for it and the Orbit but I am sceptical on that issue.  Reason being, I do own the clip-on Waves NX wireless headtracker and Wavess VSS software and have tried it with my various headphones and the issues are still there, more so than on the Mobius actually (perhaps because the headtracker/software combo only has three reverb presets rather than a percentage slider). While I have no doubt that the Mobius has received plenty of tweaks and improvements of its own since I last used it, given that the Waves NX software and headtracker haven't received any kind of updates in *ages*, I am hesitant to believe that the Mobius or the Orbit would have received exclusive updates to improve the VSS algorithm that the software and headtracker have not. This is because although the head tracker and standalone software never really took off for gamers, they are actually quite popular amongst music producers, audio fx designers, sound engineers etc. for mixing and testing multichannel surround audio because it allows them to virtually replicate the multichannel speakers setups of studios or the audio environments intended for their mixes (such as performance venues for example) so if any significant improvements were to be made to the Waves NX VSS algorithm, I would expect the headtracker and associated software to get those improvements at least the same time as the Mobius and Orbit, if not earlier. It is after all, Waves who are behind the Waves NX VSS, not Audeze.

All that being said though, it's still one of my favourite VSS solutions because when it works well, it *really* works well and although there will be moments where you're like "Eh??" or "Hmm, Waves really messed that bit up", it only happens very occasionally on Waves NX, rarely with SXFI and not as bad when it does happen, very rarely at all with SBX and when it does happen the impact is the least of the three. Out of the devices you mentioned, right now you'll only get true VSS out of PS4 from SBX on the G6 while you'll only get proper SXFI and Waves NX out of the PC. No idea what Stadia's audio capabilities are, it's not a platform that has ever piqued my interest TBH.

The most versatile and cost effective would be the X3 but the SXFI implementation currently has audio quality problems for rear samples and has done for a while it would seem which is odd as the SXFI AMP does not.

If it's between the Mobius and the Orbit, I'd say Mobius without question as it would be a shame to lose the wireless capability just for a 15-20% discount. You lose the full Waves NX experience in wireless mode but you could turn that all that off and still use Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X etc. processed by your machine and sent by Bluetooth. If you are say out and about on a laptop and wanted to watch Netflix in virtual surround wirelessly, you can do that.

The Mobius will probably be better as pure cans than the Theaters but the Theaters are so much cheaper that you could keep them and buy some of the other options too and still spend less than the Mobius.

For example, if you liked Waves NX as well as SXFI and wanted both then you could get the SXFI Theater,  the Waves NX headtracker and VSS app and a G6 for full SBX from the PS4. Again, give or take, it comes to around about the same as the MSRP for Mobius. You then add your head measurements to the Waves app, pair the headtracker to any blutooth emitter and then clip the tracker to the top of your chosen stereo headphones. The Waves headtracker solution does require your system to already have a 5.1 or 7.1 capable audio chip, sound card or access to an external one via USB as it uses that device as the audio source and uses the PC CPU to process discrete multichannel into VSS for output from that same source while communicating with the head tracker wirelessly for processing your head movements. Actually, it's quite possible you could set the SXFI Theater's sound stick as the 7.1 source (provided it is what I think it is, a multichannel capable external sound card in addition to  wireless emitter) in which case you just ensure that all SXFI processing is turned off on the Theater so it's just stereo that's being sent to the Theater, attach the headtracker to the Theater headset, then bam, stereo being sent from the Theater USB stick will be fully processed headtracked 7.1 Waves NX VSS all wireless, no cables!

For ultimate wireless madness, a final option that would make you a contender for the title of "Wireless king of PC and PS4 VSS", all for the price of a single Mobius, would be:
 SXFI Theater + Waves NX headtracker and Software  + PlayStation Platinum Wireless.

A couple of users on here will claim that the Platinum Wireless is garbage but I disagree. Sony's house VSS is very good and will process upto 7.1 multichannel PCM from games. In fact, short of a Smyth Realiser, or one of the few non-gaming wireless headsets that accepts HDMI audio, or else an AV receiver with its own headphone VSS solution, the Platinums are the only (and without exception the cheapest) way to process discrete 7.1 multichannel tracks on the PS because the source audio isn't limited by having to be transcoded into bitstreamed  5.1 Dolby Digital or 5.1 DTS as would be the case with all other PS compatible VSS gaming dac/amps.
Moreover, the Platinum offers exclusive 3D audio for certain flagship first party exclusives (Uncharted, Horizon, God of War etc.). So in those particular  games you don't just get standard VSS, you get height effects far above, far below etc. While there do exist a very small number of multiplats with good binaural 3D audio  pre-mixed in by the game devs and work for any stereo headphones
(e.g. Hellblade etc.),​they're very much in the minority and regardless, the Platinum Wireless is currently the only way fullstop of getting 3D audio from the aforementioned  PS4 1st party exclusives. Even a Smyth Realiser would have no means of getting 3D VSS from those titles because the discrete multichannel audio tracks of those games are just standard 5.1 and 7.1 with none of the height information.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> Honestly? I'd use no-quibble refund/return sellers to buy the Mobius and the new SXFI Theater Wireless headphones, see which you like better, and return the one you don't.
> The SXFI Theater Wireless apparently offers full SXFI processing of discrete multichannel sources via a USB sound stick which acts as a wireless transmitter for the pre-processed SXFI VSS signal and acts as an external sound card too. If true, that would make it the first new-gen 3D VSS headset to do all that wirelessly system-wide on PC. By comparison, both the Mobius and the SXFI Air do all their processing onboard and thus can only receive stereo wirelessly over Bluetooth; both require USB wired connections to PC in order to be able to process discrete multichannel source audio into full SXFI / Waves NX.
> 
> As for SXFI vs Waves, I prefer Waves in some ways and SXFI in others but find Waves to be more prone to sudden and incongruous hard panned transitions when the camera perspective shifts around busy or congested audio environments  The mobius projects depth very well and headtracking is awesome but its soundstage doesn't always feel spherical due to the aforementioned issues and can on the odd occasion momentarily feel a bit uneven and irregular. SXFI is more consistent in this respect.
> ...



WOW , thank you very much for all the info. You opened my eyes to much more scenarios now. I will be looking into the SXFI theaters. 
Thanks again for all the help


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## SierraMadre (Jan 31, 2020)

EDIT: I made an error in the preceding post saying the X3 could do true SBX with the PS4. It can't as it has no optical in, only optical out.



stavros.m said:


> WOW , thank you very much for all the info. You opened my eyes to much more scenarios now. I will be looking into the SXFI theaters.
> Thanks again for all the help



My pleasure. One thing I forgot to add although you may have realised it already, is that despite the Waves NX + headtracker software not being as tweakable or optimised as the Mobius's, they have the advantage of working with *any* stereo headphones you desire and you could use a program like Hesuvi to optimise compensation for best positional accuracy. Also Waves has a free trial I think, the software only VSS by itself is not as good without the headtracker, *but* you can get most of the way there if you have a webcam. It can use that instead to track your head movement (although there's more latency and it costs your resources more in CPU cycles).


----------



## deadchip12 (Jan 31, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> A couple of users on here will claim that the Platinum Wireless is garbage but I disagree. Sony's house VSS is very good and will process upto 7.1 multichannel PCM from games. In fact, short of a Smyth Realiser, or one of the few non-gaming wireless headsets that accepts HDMI audio, or else an AV receiver with its own headphone VSS solution, the Platinums are the only (and without exception the cheapest) way to process discrete 7.1 multichannel tracks on the PS because the source audio isn't limited by having to be transcoded into bitstreamed  5.1 Dolby Digital or 5.1 DTS as would be the case with all other PS compatible VSS gaming dac/amps.
> Moreover, the Platinum offers exclusive 3D audio for certain flagship first party exclusives (Uncharted, Horizon, God of War etc.). So in those particular  games you don't just get standard VSS, you get height effects far above, far below etc. While there do exist a very small number of multiplats with good binaural 3D audio  pre-mixed in by the game devs and work for any stereo headphones
> (e.g. Hellblade etc.),​they're very much in the minority and regardless, the Platinum Wireless is currently the only way fullstop of getting 3D audio from the aforementioned  PS4 1st party exclusives. Even a Smyth Realiser would have no means of getting 3D VSS from those titles because the discrete multichannel audio tracks of those games are just standard 5.1 and 7.1 with none of the height information.



Agree. People seem to give gaming headset lots of crap in general but they should first look at the company who makes said gaming headset. If I'm not wrong, Sony is known for making pretty good closed back headphone, so it's no surprise their gaming headset should be of high quality as well. I own the Platinum and compared to my fidelio x2hr and a few other open back headphones I tried at the store, the Platinum performs very well. The fidelio x2hr may sound more natural and be more airy but the Platinum is more visceral and has more sub bass with good clarity. The soundstage is also surprisingly good in stereo (I find it even larger than the sennheiser 660s I tested), and combined that with Sony in-house's own vss and 3d (which is probably one of the best virtual surround solutions I have ever heard with wide soundstage and accurate imaging), the experience is very immersive . My only complaint is the comfort; it causes pain on the top of my head with the headband, so i will sell the headset when I'm done with the ps4 (the ps5 will have 3d audio integrated chip anyway). Then I will only own the x2hr and may want to look for an upgrade (either the upcoming fidelio x3 or dt1990 pro). People give the x2hr a lot of hate as well, saying it is muddy low-fi crap but I find the sound clear, very natural and pleasing to the ears and comparable to more expensive pairs.


----------



## shuto77

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's what I'm currently reviewing. Hopefully will be up within the next few days.
> 
> Spoilers: It sounds great wired and wirelessly. Bass is a little bloomy. Comfort is...okay. Needs more headband extension.
> 
> ...



Have you tried the Sundara for gaming? I've read it's quite good overall, and some prefer it to the LCD-1. I'm trying to buy something that's an upgrade from my Hifiman HE4XX for music and gaming.

Of course, the usual caveats apply to Hifiman QC.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I wonder how the Panda would compare to the LCD-GX rather than the Mobius.


----------



## Velsu

SierraMadre said:


> If it's between the Mobius and the Orbit, I'd say Mobius without question as it would be a shame to lose the wireless capability just for a 15-20% discount. You lose the full Waves NX experience in wireless mode but you could turn that all that off and still use Dolby Atmos for headphone, DTS headphone X etc. processed by your machine and sent by Bluetooth. If you are say out and about on a laptop and wanted to watch Netflix in virtual surround wirelessly, you can do that.
> 
> The Mobius will probably be better as pure cans than the Theaters but the Theaters are so much cheaper that you could keep them and buy some of the other options too and still spend less than the Mobius.



I am currently on the verge which to order, Mobius or Orbit and thanks to You i will prolly aim for the Mobius. It is about 130$ more expensive in my cart but the wireless might be really convenient for some use cases. I am currently running Titanium HD that are driving my DT 990 (they go strong since 9 years already!) along with YETI mic so my wife claims i am a moron to buy "gaming" headset, but i would really try the Planar and proper 3D in games. Also built in amp/dac might be a good idea if i want to listen to music on my laptop on the go or play some game with proper sound so i do not think it would be such a waste of money.

Any idea if Mobius plays well with Nintendo Switch? And again, thank You for this post as i found it in right moment.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Wondering if I should buy the Mobius or not for PC use.
I must say I don't play competitively and am far more interested in immersion than accurate positioning though I do live a nice soundstage.

Here are my concerns:
- the Mobius can only produce 3D audio when connected via USB, not while using Bluetooth or AUX.
- I can have 3D audio using Dolby Atmos for headphones when using only stereo headphones, even if the game or movie doesn’t support Atmos. Yes, the experience will be better if the game supports Atmos.
- Same goes for DTS Headphone:X.

So my questions are:
- For 5.1/7.1 (no Atmos) games: would I get better audio with the Mobius (using USB, Mobius 3D) or HD800S/LCD-GX/Panda (using Dolby Atmos for Headphones or DTS Headphone:X)?
- For stereo only games: would I get better audio with the Mobius ( using USB, Mobius 3D) or HD800S/LCD-GX/Panda (using Dolby Atmos for Headphones or DTS Headphone:X) or HD800S/LCD-GX/Panda (using stereo)?
- Is Mobius VSS better than the VSS found on the GSX1000?

So basically: 
- How good is Dolby Atmos for Headphones/DTS Headphone:X for regular surround games (no Atmos) and stereo games? 
- Would a Mobius improve on that or would I be better of using DAH/DTSHX with better cans like the HD800S I have or add an LCD-GX with it's immersive sound or a Panda for it's versatility with Bluetooth?
- I do have a GSX1000 so next to DAH and DTSHX I have a third VSS I can use with multiple headphones. The big question then is which of the 3 VSS do I use for which games?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 2, 2020)

Holy butts, what happened to Head-fi....







A while back, I spent a long time redoing all the old images on my first page as attachments so as to not have broken links. Now, it seems that work was undone, and most of my reviews have no images.

Just... noooooo.

I don't have those images, and now I'm gonna have to nab a bunch from the internet...

THANKS A LOT HEAD-FI.

Mobile looks... Absolutely scuffed.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Holy butts, what happened to Head-fi....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think they're still working on it, and said the photos part of the upgrade would take extra couple days (or was it weeks?)... So anyhow - your photos *should* show up again. Eventually.
I would ask @joe


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## TONEDEPTH (Feb 2, 2020)

Helo 

my brother wants to buy  headphones  for  gaming 

the  budget  that he  gives is 400  euros max.

what  options he has in  the  400  euros max.  ??

which  headphones are  the  best  for   this   budget of 400 euros max  for  gaming?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2020)

*Below *is my review of the Drop + THX Panda. As stated in the review, it is a PRE-PRODUCTION UNIT, and things are subject to change. I was not paid by Drop or THX or anyone. They simply sent me the headphones for review, THAT IS IT.



> *Drop + THX  Panda*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## illram

AppleheadMay said:


> Wondering if I should buy the Mobius or not for PC use.
> I must say I don't play competitively and am far more interested in immersion than accurate positioning though I do live a nice soundstage.
> 
> Here are my concerns:
> ...



The only games I have put a lot of hours into using Atmos are the new Call of Duty and Borderlands 3. 

I can tell you that the if you like a good soundstage, that is definitely not whatever VSS Atmos currently is utilizing. It is very in your head. I don't find it that convincing to be honest, and I don't hear the vertical cues as much as I would like to hear them. Sometimes I do notice it but it is never enough to really convince me I am hearing it outright vs. my brain interpolating the audio direction from the visual on screen cues.

Specifically with the HD800S, on the default EQ Atmos sounds overly sibilant. I don't know if it messing with the EQ would help but the headphone definitely reveals some of the flaws in the processing. Compared to Super X-Fi, for example, it sounds tingy and reedy.

Overall I am disappointed with Atmos for headphones. It's not better than the other dedicated solutions. I really want it to be better and I hope they continue to improve it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

OMG, if I paste my reviews, it breaks the old coding for stuff like text size and centering. UUUGH, i hate this new headfi


----------



## TONEDEPTH

my brother wants to buy headphones for gaming

the budget that he gives is 400 euros max.

what options he has in the 400 euros max. ??

which headphones are the best for this budget of 400 euros max for gaming? 


can someone  help me  please??

i am asking  which are the best headphones in  400 euros maX  for  gaming??


----------



## Velsu

Thank You so much for the review @Mad Lust Envy , i was thinking of skipping Mobius and going with Panda but after reading the review it seems they both fill different roles (Mobius stronger on Gaming) so i might actually go with these first and see if wireless is somewhat acceptable for music.

Overall You were the person that influeced me to buy DT 990 for Music and Gaming and i can't thank You enough, this was one of best choices in my life and they keep me going strong for 8 years already. I know it's nothing but i really appreciate Your reviews and overall people like You, who dedicate themself to help other less experienced members getting the best gaming experience they deserve. I hope You can continue that for as long as possible.


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## TONEDEPTH

the headphones are  for  my brother...

the mobius  are  very  good   for  gaming??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Please stop posting. Your question was posted. Wait for someone to reply. As for me, I do not reply to general questions like that, as stated in my guide. So please stop double posting and repeating the question.


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## TONEDEPTH (Feb 2, 2020)

i ask my  apologizes ..but  from  your experience and  the reviews  that  you  have did in  headphones..   The mobius are very good for gaming??

from  you personal experience  in  your  reviews which headphones  you  believe are  the  best  in  that  budget of 400 euros max??

my brother is playing all  the  kind of games./.

horror  games,,  rpgs,, figthing  games.. and etc..

in which headphones  to  look  in  the  budget of 400 euros  for  gaming??


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## Velsu

Based on review on the first page, yes Audeze Mobius seems like a good choice. You can also save some $$ and try HyperX Cloud Orbit or Cloud Orbit S if Your brother does not need wireless functionality.


----------



## TONEDEPTH

my friend i asked  in the  budget  of  400 euros max  what  choices  i have in  headphones  for  gaming??

i dont want to buy  cheap  headphones././..


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## Velsu

Audeze Mobius are 399 euro and 342 euro for Copper on amazon.de at the moment. Cloud Orbit S is from 300 euro, it is the SAME thing except wireless.


----------



## TONEDEPTH

i am saying  from   the reviews of mad last envy whic  headphones are  very good  for  gaming in  the  budget of  400 euros max/?

if  my  brother will  buy  the  Audeze Mobius    will  be  very  good  for  gaming??  this i am asking..

https://www.audeze.com/products/mobius

do you believe that  Audeze Mobius   are  one of the best headphones for  gaming??

is it worth my  brother to  buy  them??

what is  your  opinion for  the  Audeze Mobius? are very good?  will  my brother be  happy  if he will  buy  the   Audeze Mobius  for  gaming?
as  i told   you  my brother is playing all the kind of games./.

horror games,, rpgs,, figthing games.. and etc..

will  the  mobius  will  be  very  good  for all  the  types of games??


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy : Thanks a lot for your review of the Panda! I had just read the reviews of the Mobius and LCD-GX again so it helps me a lot in making my choice between the three.

@illram : thanks for your impressions, something to consider for sure. I'll do some more testing and comparing some of my headphones with Dolby Atmos for Headphones and the GSX1000 first.


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## SierraMadre (Feb 2, 2020)

Velsu said:


> I am currently on the verge which to order, Mobius or Orbit and thanks to You i will prolly aim for the Mobius. It is about 130$ more expensive in my cart but the wireless might be really convenient for some use cases. I am currently running Titanium HD that are driving my DT 990 (they go strong since 9 years already!) along with YETI mic so my wife claims i am a moron to buy "gaming" headset, but i would really try the Planar and proper 3D in games. Also built in amp/dac might be a good idea if i want to listen to music on my laptop on the go or play some game with proper sound so i do not think it would be such a waste of money.
> 
> Any idea if Mobius plays well with Nintendo Switch? And again, thank You for this post as i found it in right moment.


Mobius will work with the Switch but its  benefits are rather hamstrung by the fact that you would need some kind of bluetooth adapter for wireless and there would be no way of getting multichannel direct from the Switch for the Mobius to process into proper virtual surround as wireless and USB are confined to stereo only.

I am not sure if Mobius can effectively upmix 2 channel into surround, especially if that 2 channel is vanilla stereo rather than something that has been downmixed from a multichannel feed by a separate output device. If your TV or AV receiver can process LPCM (which is what the Switch outputs as surround through HDMI) then you could maybe use the headphone out from that device for multichannel downsampled into stereo or wireless Bluetooth if that device supoorts it as some TVs do. The Mobius *might* then be able to upmix that back into some semblance of surround similar to Dolby Pro Logic upmixing.

If on the other hand, you just take the audio from Switch’s USB or direct from the Switch’s headphone port though, then you’d be better off sticking with your Beyers. At best you will get plain two channel stereo (which Mobius would virtualise as stereo speakers in front of you) or you would get the game’s built-in headphone VSS (programmed in by the game devs) in which case Mobius’s VSS should be turned off for accuracy. It’s also worth noting that plenty of major Switch games don’t even have multichannel tracks at all (e.g. Xenoblade 2, Fire Emblem, Astral Chain etc.).

Mobius is worth it if you want to main Waves NX VSS on PC and have a nice pair of Bluetooth wireless planars to boot. It’s not however some one stop shop VSS solution for multi system gaming though,  especially if you are looking for something for serious console duties too.


----------



## Velsu

SierraMadre said:


> Mobius will work with the Switch but it’s benefits are rather hamstrung by the fact that you would need some kind of bluetooth adapter for wireless and there would be no way of getting multichannel direct from the Switch for the Mobius to process into proper virtual surround as wireless and USB are confined to stereo only.
> 
> I am not sure if Mobius can effectively upmix 2 channel into surround, especially if that 2 channel is not something that has been through a downmixed from multichannel by a separate output device. If your TV or AV receiver can process LPCM (which is what the Switch outputs as surround through HDMI) then you could maybe use the headphone out from that device for multichannel downsampled into stereo or wireless Bluetooth if that device supoorts it as some TVs do. The Mobius *might* then be able to upmix that back into some semblance of surround similar to Dolby Pro Logic upmixing.
> 
> ...



Thanks for detailed reply. I will be mainly gaming on PC so thats my main target. I have read a lot of good stuff and want to test the planars so i decided to pick these up, altough i am usually very sceptic about "gaming headphones" or anything that has "gaming" slapped next to the name. But considering these are from Audeze and they got a positive review here i really want to try it out.

My only dillema was if i should maybe pay less and go with Cloud Orbit as i do not need the head tracker stuff and i could live without bluetooth but somehow i am leaning more towards original Audeze, maybe warranty terms will be better or software support, we will see.


----------



## TONEDEPTH

can someone help me  please??

do you believe that Audeze Mobius are one of the best headphones for gaming??

is it worth my brother to buy them??

what is your opinion for the Audeze Mobius? are very good? will my brother be happy if he will buy the Audeze Mobius for gaming?
as i told you my brother is playing all the kind of games./.

horror games,, rpgs,, figthing games.. and etc..

will the mobius will be very good for all the types of games??

in the budget of 400 euros max what choices i have in headphones for gaming?? 

can someone help me  please??


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

illram said:


> The only games I have put a lot of hours into using Atmos are the new Call of Duty and Borderlands 3.
> 
> I can tell you that the if you like a good soundstage, that is definitely not whatever VSS Atmos currently is utilizing. It is very in your head. I don't find it that convincing to be honest, and I don't hear the vertical cues as much as I would like to hear them. Sometimes I do notice it but it is never enough to really convince me I am hearing it outright vs. my brain interpolating the audio direction from the visual on screen cues.
> 
> ...



I have found Atmos fine for the most part, particularly when it’s applied ad hoc to true Atmos content, like AC Origins. There is a big difference in height fx in that game. It’s particularly evident when you have birds flying overhead. Even when the cues are coming from offscreen (out of my line of sight)  I can estimate much more easily and accurately how high overhead they are and where, in comparison to with SBX or other traditional VSS solutions applied to DD5.1.
In this instance at least, it can’t be explained away as placebo or subconscious compensation from visual cues when you could never see them in the first place. i.e. I’m not talking about when you _see_ birds fly past overhead, I’m taking about when you don’t even know they’re there until you register their presence at differing heights and distances purely through off camera audio cues.

It may just be that Atmos for headphone doesn’t work for you but if you are willing to try, here are a couple of things that might help as your words seem to suggest you haven‘t tried EQing the HD800s with Atmos yet?


EQ for HD800S when using Atmos on PC

Have you tried Hesuvi/Equaliser APO/ Peace Auto Eq compensation for the HD800S with Atmos on PC? It gives me good results and doesn’t sound too harsh or tinny.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
Alternatively, Sonarworks Tru-fi which is close to the above but adjusts for age-related deterioration too. This is a bit smoother but also sounds a bit more processed. Try starting with your actual age bracket and tweaking its curve from there if default is not to your liking. If you haven’t tried it before there is a free trial. If you like it it’s worth waiting for a sale if you’re cost conscious as it’s quite pricey.


Atmos + HD800S on Xbox One S and X

Xbox however, has to be done DIY and short of some analogue method, or specialist equipment, has to make do with 10 band graphic EQ which obviously isn’t as good as the aforementioned parametrics, but I have still found to be worthwhile. I just use the G6’s Sound Blaster Connect EQ to set the bands and the Dolby Access EQ to set the pre-amp offset in the form of a custom profile. With X3, one need not bother with the Dolby Access app's EQ as one can just do it all through the Sound blaster EQ profile as SB Command’s EQ has a pre-amp offset slider.

I manually dial in the recommened 10 band graphic EQ settings adapted by Auto Eq from Oratory1990‘s well known benchmarks. If that one is not to your liking, you could try the ones adapted from Inner Fidelity or Rtings etc. IIRC, they recommend O90 > IF > Rtings in that order.

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Sennheiser HD 800 S

Finally, and this is only really useful for Xbox, a trick I’ve found for smoothing the HD800S Atmos experience  is to send Atmos for headphone to the G6 (or a Dolby Digital capable dac/amp) in Dolby Digital 2.0 form rather than stereo PCM (SBX VSS is set to off obviously). It trades some clarity and precision for warmness and smoothness. Yes this is probably because of compression and PCM is better etc. but I’ve found the trade-off to be not just acceptable but depending on my mood, even preferable sometimes.


Good Test Content

Some good Netflix scenes that showcase Atmos are to be found in “The Haunting of Hill House” on Netflix
https://www.netflix.com/title/80189221?s=i&trkid=0
- Poltergeist knocking in* Episode 8, 21:40 - 22:40 *

- Rain fx and upstairs window breaking in *Episode 6, 15:10 to 23:00*



SXFI + HD800S

I think probably a reason why SXFI‘s HD800 profile is so palatable to you and I is because it’s *not* quite exactly matched to the HD800S. The profile was designed to compensate the original HD800, common criticisms for which (as you know) were not enough bass and an excess in the upper registers. The SXFI profile will already be trying to offset these characteristics (or at least the treble spike if not the bass) to some extent. Accordingly and as you are no doubt also aware, the HD800S’s own design was intended to offset the aforementioned criticisms to some degree anyway. . .So by using the vanilla HD800 profile with the HD800S’s ‘updated’ design, we are probably effectively getting something akin to a double dose of treble smoothing and maybe even two helpings of bass bump.

It wouldn’t surprise me if, should Creative release a dedicated HD800S profile, I (and maybe you too) might end up preferring to stick with the original HD800 profile instead.



Velsu said:


> Thanks for detailed reply. I will be mainly gaming on PC so thats my main target. I have read a lot of good stuff and want to test the planars so i decided to pick these up, altough i am usually very sceptic about "gaming headphones" or anything that has "gaming" slapped next to the name. But considering these are from Audeze and they got a positive review here i really want to try it out.
> 
> My only dillema was if i should maybe pay less and go with Cloud Orbit as i do not need the head tracker stuff and i could live without bluetooth but somehow i am leaning more towards original Audeze, maybe warranty terms will be better or software support, we will see.


No, you absolutely want “the headtracker stuff”, it’s an integral part of what makes Waves NX among the best of the nu-wave 3D VSS solutions. Without the headtracker you might as well just buy the software app or https://www.turtlebeach.com/products/atlas-edge-pc-audio-enhancer and use with your Beyers or an enthusiast set of planars and be done with it.

To clarify, Waves NX allows you to lock an anchor point (which should be your head-on listening position) so that the virtual speaker setup is stationary as would be the case with a real surround speaker system. Even just the micro-movements your head makes as you breathe contribute to the holography.  Mobius and Orbit‘s implementation of Waves also allows for easy auto re-centering whereby if your head strays significantly off the anchor point for 5 seconds (I think it was 5), perhaps because you are adjusting to a more comfortable position, then it will automatically  calibrate  the newest stationary head position as the new anchor point. It works very well.

If you want to preview Waves NX while you are waiting for your Mobius, download the Waves NX central app free trial and try it with your Beyer’s. The app can set a webcam as a proxy for the headtracker. You set your Sound Blaster as the multichannel source device and ensure that SBX is off. You could even try AutoEqimg the Beyers  (see the first link in my response to Illram above) for best results.


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 2, 2020)

Hey i am just curious if someone would buy an amp/dac like the Schiit Hel Gaming, but still want to use VSS. What would you recommend? 
I hear mix things about Dolby Atmos since its not really used in many games?
Also would the Schiit Hel work better with a software VSS or something like the GSX1000

thanks


----------



## deadchip12

If my source is 5.1, should I change the configuration inside Sound Blaster Connect to 5.1? Or just keep it at 7.1 for everything surround? I'm using the G6.


----------



## Chastity

deadchip12 said:


> If my source is 5.1, should I change the configuration inside Sound Blaster Connect to 5.1? Or just keep it at 7.1 for everything surround? I'm using the G6.


7.1 is ok, it'll sound the same


----------



## ksv27

How would these compare to the Amiron Wireless? (ignoring price)


----------



## deadchip12

Chastity said:


> 7.1 is ok, it'll sound the same



To be honest, I notice some difference. That makes me wonder if the 7.1 configuration does some kind of upmixing the 5.1 source to 7.1. Besides, if they sound the same, what's the point of different configurations?


----------



## TONEDEPTH

Why in the forum Noone doesn't help me? 
 As I said my brother is looking for headphones for gaming in 400 euros max

We saw the mobius and we are asking if mobius are very good for GAMIng

In the budget of 400 euros to buy mobius for gaming? Or are better choices in that money? 

I don't understand why Noone doesn't  help us  in our posts

What  choices we have in the budget of 400 euros max? 

Is it worth to buy mobius for gaming?


----------



## Fegefeuer (Feb 3, 2020)

Nobody in here likes lazy questions and having them spammed into the inbox. In all these days you could have done your own research, read through reviews and impressions, yet here you are, lazy and entitled as ever.

You could at least have singled out a few headphones and asked for decisive qualities for each headphone over the others and then decided to either loan 1-2 or go for the buy. That way you'd learn to help yourself and help others to give more on point advice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The review of the Mobius tells you everything you need to know. Why would anyone answer you when the answer is already in the review? 

You just need someone to outright tell you what to buy? BUY THE MOBIUS. ITS GOOD FOR GAMING. OR BUY THE MANY HEADPHONES ON THE GUIDE THAT ARE GOOD FOR GAMING.

Its such an overly general question that takes a second on YOUR part to find the answer for on the first page.

This is why I don't answer such questions. People don't want to read and just want to be told what to get with no context, no logic, and no information to narrow down the use case.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Hey i am just curious if someone would buy an amp/dac like the Schiit Hel Gaming, but still want to use VSS. What would you recommend?
> I hear mix things about Dolby Atmos since its not really used in many games?
> Also would the Schiit Hel work better with a software VSS or something like the GSX1000
> 
> thanks


MLE's position on Atmos for headphones and DTS Headphone X is well known and has been stated many times. They don't work well for him when applied to standard 5.1 and 7.1. He has however said some good things about games with native Atmos mixes. If you want to see others' opinions then type Atmos into the thread search box or if its a particular user whose opinon you want then check their post history from their profile. You can do the same for the Hel as this was discussed at length when MLE did his Hel review.

But while we're here, I'll sum up. Use the equipment you already have first to determine whether Atmos, DTS, Boom 3D, Hesuvi or whatever other software VSS works well for you. If you find one (or more than one) that does then it's time to consider getting the Hel or another stereo input only dac/amp. 
The Hel has excellent components and performance by all accounts so whether Atmos for headphone or whatever other software VSS solutions work well with it will be down to your _own _HRTF compatibility with the VSS in question and the headphones you are using rather than the Hel itself.

As for GSX1000, not ideal to run it into the Hel because, IIRC, MLE said it can't push GSX VSS out of the speaker line-out meaning you would have to double-amp from the unit's headphone- out to the Hel's line-in.
If you want an endpoint dac/amp that you can pair with other hardware based VSS units, it's best to get one with optical in and accordingly, you would also want the original source dac/amp to be able to push VSS out of its speaker line-out, again, preferably via optical out.

Mayflower Arc version 2 is one option for the former. It's more expensive than the Hel but has some advantages in that it offers optical-in, has an optional bass boost feature and the wall wart for power supply is optional, not mandatory (i.e. you can use it if you want to drive particularly power hungry cans but in most scenarios usb power-only should be fine). 

Here is one opinion via a three-way comparison of the two along with the Fulla by Brian Phillips aka Badseed Tech:



As for gaming dac/amps that can push VSS out of optical, the only ones that I know of are Creative's SBX capable dac/amps like the G6 and X7 and for most headphones, they'd be more than enough by themselves anyway without a need for anything else like the Hel or the Arc (law of diminishing returns and all that). There are also the Smyth Realisers but they are a whole 'nother level of price and complexity and again, as with the G6 and X7, you likely wouldn't be needing an additional endpoint gaming dac/amp in that instance.

As always, it's best to buy whatever products are competing for your interest from a no quibble return/refund friendly vendor  so that you can directly compare them yourself and return the one(s) you don't want. To reiterate though, it would be better for you to first work out whether Atmos/DTS/Boom 3D/ Hesuvi etc. work well for you on the hardware and headphones you have to hand before committing to purchase of any stereo only gaming dac/amps.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2020)

I forget, I have to check out Boom3D. My mind is all over the place atm as I'm dealing with a LOT, and keep forgetting. Mind pm-ing me the details? That way I won't forget.

@SierraMadre


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I forget, I have to check out Boom3D. My mind is all over the place atm, and keep forgetting. Mind pm-ing me the details? That way I won't forget.
> 
> @SierraMadre


Sure, gimme a sec.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SierraMadre said:


> Sure, gimme a sec.


Having just wrapped up the Panda review, and being off the next few days, figure I'd have a little time to test Boom3D out. Felt like replaying HL2 after so many years, so it's a good time to test things.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Feb 3, 2020)

Found something else called Audio Royale. Never heard about it.

https://getaudioroyale.com


> *Technical Facts*
> 
> Optimized CPU efficiency
> Best-in-class frame rate
> Lowest latency on the market


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Having just wrapped up the Panda review, and being off the next few days, figure I'd have a little time to test Boom3D out. Felt like replaying HL2 after so many years, so it's a good time to test things.


DM sent.

Posting links below in case anyone else wants to give it a try.

https://www.globaldelight.com/boom/
30 day free trial. Also available on Steam for those that prefer.


----------



## ronfifer (Feb 3, 2020)

Does boom3d downmix game surround sound into HRTF stereo for headphones just like Dolby atmos for headphones and DTS:X? They don't explicitly state that in the description. Or does it apply its own layer of virtual surround sound on top?

Is the search function within the thread working? No matter what i key in, it gives no results.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Does boom3d downmix game surround sound into HRTF stereo for headphones just like Dolby atmos for headphones and DTS:X? They don't explicitly state that in the description. Or does it apply its own layer of virtual surround sound on top?
> 
> Is the search function within the thread working? No matter what i key in, it gives no results.



Which do you think is more ideal? I'd gather probably downmixing because then it can be sent to everything?

And yeah, Headfi is a mess right now, so I'm sure some things don't work as they should.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

TONEDEPTH said:


> Why in the forum Noone doesn't help me?
> As I said my brother is looking for headphones for gaming in 400 euros max
> 
> We saw the mobius and we are asking if mobius are very good for GAMIng
> ...


Dude, you need to ease up.

Like I  already told you in the response to your DM that you sent me asking the very same questions:

- Yes they are good headphones for gaming

- "Good" is subjective. Not everything works for everybody all the time. Try before you buy or at least get them from somewhere you can return/refund

- If you want further opinions and thoughts do a search for "Mobius" in the thread's search box or go to a user's profile and search their post history for Mobius or the SoundBlaster AE9 etc. from there.

- Be patient when asking questions and know that not every question will be answered in the way / detail you may want it to be because as previously mentioned, headphone user experience and virtual surround preferences differ between users.

You've made 11 posts in 24 hours about the same two topics, Mobius and the Sound Blaster AE cards. Nobody likes it when a user spams those same 2 questions over and over again and then acts aggrieved and entitled just because the answers received were not as swift or in-depth as you desired.

This is a fan community thread, not a professional retail advice service. None of us are getting paid here and nobody owes you the type of answer you want let alone any kind of urgent reply within hours.



ronfifer said:


> Does boom3d downmix game surround sound into HRTF stereo for headphones just like Dolby atmos for headphones and DTS:X? They don't explicitly state that in the description. Or does it apply its own layer of virtual surround sound on top?
> 
> Is the search function within the thread working? No matter what i key in, it gives no results.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Which do you think is more ideal? I'd gather probably downmixing because then it can be sent to everything?
> 
> And yeah, Headfi is a mess right now, so I'm sure some things don't work as they should.


I've wondered about this too. You specify the audio source device to piggy back off in the Boom app and it creates a virtual audio device in the audio device listings. There is no channel configuration in the app in the traditional sense a la say, Creative's stuff, but you can set the source device cannel config to 7.1 in the Windows Sound manager control panel.
Additionally, what you can do in the Boom app is test individual virtual channels, via linking an audio file, turning channels individually on and off etc. The virtual surround graphic/diagram always appears to be a 7.1 setup.

Back when I first got Boom, I actually contacted their customer support and asked about it with reference to the channel config setting of the source device in the Windows Sound manager settings in very specific and idiot proof terms. They said to set the source device to stereo but I got the impression that the CSA probably didn't know what I was talking about. I just leave source device set to 7.1. I tried it briefly set to 2 channel stereo and didn't notice much in the way of immediate difference so maybe it works like Atmos and DTS and tells Windows its a 7.1 device automatically and overrides the source device channel config setting in the Windows sound manager.

Either way, it definitely sounds to me like it's processing games' multichannel audio track and providing a more spherical virtual surround field as opposed to just artificially widening a 2 channel stereo source track. I set any in-game audio speaker settings to multichannel where possible too of course.

EDIT: Ah you perhaps mean is the final output form of Boom VSS in a 2 channel stereo signal? Yes. If your source device  that Boom latches onto offers passthrough via line-out or optical out then yes, you should be able to send it on to your endpoint dac, amp or dac/amp of choice for output to headphones.

Limitations

No headphone compensation profiles for anything other than Windows Surface headphones. You can however set generic profiles (on-ear, over-ear, iems etc.) and interestingly, it also has profiles for surround over stereo or less-than-5.2 speakers. If you want to set headphone specific compensation profiles though, you'll need to use an intermediary program like Equaliser APO's AutoEq, DIY EQ or some kind of analogue substitute.
I don't think Sonarwork's Tru-fi would work here as IIRC, Tru-fi creates its own virtual audio device in the Windows device listing too, and I don't think you can set the already virtual device that is Boom as the source device for an endpoint virtual device that would be Tru-fi.

Re: search fuction

Working on and off. Tried searching this thread for Mobius references 4 times, worked twice, nothing the other times.



Fegefeuer said:


> Found something else called Audio Royale. Never heard about it.
> 
> https://getaudioroyale.com


I think I've heard the name before on one of those numbered lists that e-publications like to do quite often. Haven't heard it in action though.

By that token, just found this in a Windowsreport.com audio enhancer software recommendation list, lol.

soundpimp.com/computer-audio-enhancer-demo/

https://windowsreport.com/best-audio-enhancers-windows-10/
Amusing name aside, it's something I haven't come across before in a software-only package separate from a speaker or soundbar hardware, a standalone software VSS solution designed and marketed only for speakers with headphone application discouraged.
Not currently in an environment where I can try it out on speakers though but I'll probably give it a try at some point the next few days.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> MLE's position on Atmos for headphones and DTS Headphone X is well known and has been stated many times. They don't work well for him when applied to standard 5.1 and 7.1. He has however said some good things about games with native Atmos mixes. If you want to see others' opinions then type Atmos into the thread search box or if its a particular user whose opinon you want then check their post history from their profile. You can do the same for the Hel as this was discussed at length when MLE did his Hel review.
> 
> But while we're here, I'll sum up. Use the equipment you already have first to determine whether Atmos, DTS, Boom 3D, Hesuvi or whatever other software VSS works well for you. If you find one (or more than one) that does then it's time to consider getting the Hel or another stereo input only dac/amp.
> The Hel has excellent components and performance by all accounts so whether Atmos for headphone or whatever other software VSS solutions work well with it will be down to your _own _HRTF compatibility with the VSS in question and the headphones you are using rather than the Hel itself.
> ...




thank you very much for the info. My friend won the Hel, but coming from a gaming headset with 7.1 sound i think I will tell him to try to sell the Hel and bye the G6 or X3 since he only games on PC.

thanks


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

You're welcome.

If he won it then no need to sell it unless he needs the money. It's a fine piece of kit, especially for free.  Tell him to see how he likes it with Atmos/DTS/Boom/Hesuvi etc. first. If he doesn't like it enough to keep it, he can sell it of course, his prerogative. but it would be a waste of a good piece of free gear if those VSS solutions work for him and he gets rid of the Hel regardless.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I second keeping the Hel and trying the software programs. For sure. For one, the Hel's mic input is goshdarn amazing. I love analog and manual mic volume control. The fact it's all analog is so much better to me than volume control tied to Windows. I hate that.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey thank both of you i told him i will try a few for him, since if he keeps them i will be selling him my dt990's i downloaded so far the boom3d and the WavesNX trial windows app. Not sure how i feel about the Waves havent tried the boom3d yet.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 4, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Hey thank both of you i told him i will try a few for him, since if he keeps them i will be selling him my dt990's i downloaded so far the boom3d and the WavesNX trial windows app. Not sure how i feel about the Waves havent tried the boom3d yet.


Waves, you need to use with a webcam at the very least (seeing as you don't have the headtracker). Of the 3 presets (IIRC, it's movie, game and music or normal), I think normal had the least reverb and was the most natural sounding. Also make sure you set the source device that Waves attaches itself to as 7.1, and any if there are any  in-game audio settings for speaker config in the game you are playing as 7.1 or 5.1 speakers.

CORRECTIVE EDIT: 

Presets are actually "Multimedia", "Movie" and "Voice". 
In the context of gaming and movies, multimedia and movie are the best. Movie is the most holographic in terms of depth projection but also has the most reverb, I'd say about the same as SXFI Gen 2, maybe a bit less. Multimedia is more balanced, less projected depth but also less reverb.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> Waves, you need to use with a webcam at the very least (seeing as you don't have the headtracker). Of the 3 presets (IIRC, it's movie, game and music or normal), I think normal had the least reverb and was the most natural sounding. Also make sure you set the source device that Waves attaches itself to as 7.1, and any if there are any  in-game audio settings for speaker config in the game you are playing as 7.1 or 5.1 speakers.



Maybe install the wrong app i dont seem to see any of those presets only Multimedia / Movie / Voice. Also i dont seem to have any option to in my source device to set it to 7.1


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 3, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Maybe install the wrong app i dont seem to see any of those presets only Multimedia / Movie / Voice. Also i dont seem to have any option to in my source device to set it to 7.1


No, that's the right one. I misremembered the name of the presets. I remember now.

Multimedia is the one with least amount of reverb. movie is the one with most. Choose whichever sounds best for you. Avoid the "voice" preset for gaming and movies, it's intended for vocal music.

Set the source device to 7.1 *in windows sound manager control panel *and any in-game settings to 5.1 or 7.1 *speakers*, whichever is higher.

*To clarify, in order to do this, you need to attach Waves to a 5.1 or 7.1 capable audio source device. This can be your onboard sound chip or an external sound card or USB dac/amp (if multichannel capable).

If there are no in-game settings, don't worry about it. With the webcam acting as head tracker you're good to go *after* you've entered your head measurements (inter-aural arc and circumference) - should be accessible by clicking the gear-shaped icon for settings.

Have a look at the support manual if you need guidance as to how to measure these. If it still doesn't sound right to you after that then maybe it's not for you. Make sure you test in multiple games though as every VSS can perform better in some games and worse than others.

Clicking "sweet spot" sets the anchor point.


----------



## Velsu

SierraMadre said:


> No, you absolutely want “the headtracker stuff”, it’s an integral part of what makes Waves NX among the best of the nu-wave 3D VSS solutions. Without the headtracker you might as well just buy the software app or https://www.turtlebeach.com/products/atlas-edge-pc-audio-enhancer and use with your Beyers or an enthusiast set of planars and be done with it.
> 
> To clarify, Waves NX allows you to lock an anchor point (which should be your head-on listening position) so that the virtual speaker setup is stationary as would be the case with a real surround speaker system. Even just the micro-movements your head makes as you breathe contribute to the holography.  Mobius and Orbit‘s implementation of Waves also allows for easy auto re-centering whereby if your head strays significantly off the anchor point for 5 seconds (I think it was 5), perhaps because you are adjusting to a more comfortable position, then it will automatically  calibrate  the newest stationary head position as the new anchor point. It works very well.
> 
> If you want to preview Waves NX while you are waiting for your Mobius, download the Waves NX central app free trial and try it with your Beyer’s. The app can set a webcam as a proxy for the headtracker. You set your Sound Blaster as the multichannel source device and ensure that SBX is off. You could even try AutoEqimg the Beyers  (see the first link in my response to Illram above) for best results.



Ahh this is interesting. Plenty of reddit posts and reviews online mention that head tracker is just a "gimmick" and it is unnecessary for gaming, unless doing VR so i was under an impression that Cloud Orbit without it is a great deal. It seems they treat Waves NX as something standalone/separate.

I must say this is all confusing but i will trust Your word and just stick to Audeze Mobius. I heard they are a little more comfortable. Is there any resource how to start with setting it up once it arrives? I heard its not usual "out of the box" plug and play stuff and most people use Mobius without all it's features before they realize they need to set it up.

And thank You for sticking around and answering all this barrage of questions i feel uneasy bugging You all the time


----------



## TONEDEPTH

will  you  buy  the   Audeze Mobius??


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 3, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> No, that's the right one. I misremembered the name of the presets. I remember now.
> 
> Multimedia is the one with least amount of reverb. movie is the one with most. Choose whichever sounds best for you. Avoid the "voice" preset for gaming and movies, it's intended for vocal music.
> 
> ...



thanks for the info ya for some reason plugging my dt990 in the syba sonic amp\dac doesn't sound very good with the wavesNX but from the pc it sounds better. Not sure how much i like it yet but something to try out for a bit. I think i mighjt need to get used to the reverb


----------



## AppleheadMay

Anybody else not getting email updates of watched threads anymore?


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> thanks for the info ya for some reason plugging my dt990 in the syba sonic amp\dac doesn't sound very good with the wavesNX but from the pc it sounds better. Not sure how much i like it yet but something to try out for a bit. I think i mighjt need to get used to the reverb



Like I said, the source audio device that Waves NX piggy backs on to _needs to be multichannel capable. _ It must be capable  of receiving and recognising a discrete multichannel surround signal. The Syba is just a stereo dac/amp so Waves was only being given a stereo source feed to virtualise so it's no wonder it wasn't that great for you. You were getting a virtualised stereo speaker setup rather than a virtual 7.1 surround setup. I _repeat_, you need a 5.1 or 7.1 capable audio device as source in the first instance. That could be your onboard soundchip if it's capable or an external dac/amp that has those capabilities like a Sound blaster G6.

Choose the audio source from the Waves Central app and then ensure that it's set to 5.1 or 7/1. Can't remember if you can do this straight from the Waves app, hence why I recommended doing it through the Windows sound manager just to be sure, see below screen shot. I can't find my headtracker at present and Waves NX isn't installed on my Surface anyway, it's on my gaming rig which isn't here, so I can't illustrate the process exactly but it shows audio device configuration via Windows OS including the access path.

Imagine that I have Waves NX installed and I have chosen the 7.1 capable SXFI AMP (SXFI turned off as in this hypothetical example - I am simply using it as a multichannel decoding capable dac/amp) as the audio source device for Waves to attach itself to and for output from there.
IIRC, the only difference between this screenshot and an actual Waves NX config would be that the virtual audio device "Waves NX" would be set as the windows default audio device rather than the SXFI here. If you are able to set the Waves NX audio device as 7.1 too either in the app or in the sound manager, then do so.






Velsu said:


> Ahh this is interesting. Plenty of reddit posts and reviews online mention that head tracker is just a "gimmick" and it is unnecessary for gaming, unless doing VR so i was under an impression that Cloud Orbit without it is a great deal. It seems they treat Waves NX as something standalone/separate.
> 
> I must say this is all confusing but i will trust Your word and just stick to Audeze Mobius. I heard they are a little more comfortable. Is there any resource how to start with setting it up once it arrives? I heard its not usual "out of the box" plug and play stuff and most people use Mobius without all it's features before they realize they need to set it up.
> 
> And thank You for sticking around and answering all this barrage of questions i feel uneasy bugging You all the time


nonsense. Sadly it's nothing more than arrogantly dismissive and closed minded ignorance  from a bunch of people (including pro reviewers many of whom know far more about audio than I ever will and thus should know better) who don't understand the purpose of the head tracking implementation in the Mobius, Orbit S and Waves NX headtracker VSS solutions.

If Waves NX or another headtracking VSS solution doesn't work for an individual's HRTF and accordingly they don't rate it, that's absolutely fine; universally effective  VSS is difficult if not impossible. But when they dismiss the principle of leveraging headtracking for VSS with "Meh, head tracking is a gimmick, it's only useful for VR!", it displays a fundamental ignorance as to how 3D audio is currently implemented in VR not to mention a complete lack of understanding in how the ears receive audio cues and how the brain processes them. Waves NX may not have worked for them but that'll be down to their own personal HRTF compatibility with the Waves algorithm, not because headtracking is a pointless gimmick. If anything, unbeknownst to them, the headtracking will have prevented their opinion /experience of Waves NX VSS from being even worse.

To be clear, there are two reasons and implementations for headtracking. One is VR and the other is VSS enhancement.

VR

VR revolves at least in part around physical movement. If not the entire body, then the upper body for motion control or al least the head for camera control as camera view tends to be tied to the physical movements of the user's head mounted display unit (HMU), i.e. the directions that the user is facing at a given time and the directions that they turn their heads towards instead of the manipulations of a mouse or a gamepad's analogue stick. VR audio tends to be pre-programmed into the game and handled by the CPU of the host system by itself or in conjunction with a dedicated dac/amp and audio processing chip in the HMU package. It is optimised to follow these head movements and keep the audio cues relative to the game environment and the user's head position. One of the major VR VSS engines used by game devs is actually a specialist VR version of Waves. In any case, whatever the VR audio engine, whoever it's from, such games don't typically require separate hardware to implement this experience. In fact, many VR headsets allow you to remove or bypass the included stock headphones and use your own stereo cans plugged to the headset or the PC if you like instead. Some VR headsets even forgo headphones altogether to keep costs down. Even in that latter instance, a separate audio device with its own headtracking would be unnecessary because a gyroscopic headtracker is already in the HMU itself. Without it, it wouldn't be able to track the VR world camera view to the user's head movements. The Mobius and Orbit S official documentation and online FAQs actually tell you to turn Waves VSS *off *for VR because Waves, Audeze and Kingston are fully aware of the aforementioned.


(As a side note, Mobius control software beta has trialled mapping gyroscopic head motion to the cans for quick snapping the game camera relative to the direction of the user's gaze while in a kind of pseudo VR hybrid implementation. However this beta came some time after launch and was never the original raison d'etre for head tracking in the Mobius.)


Head tracking for Non-VR VSS

The core purpose of Mobius's 3D audio is like any other VSS solution (and I don't mean just the nu-wave 3D audio VSS solutions that have taken off over the past couple of years), that is to mimic a true physical surround speaker setup as far as is possible using various audio acoustic trickery. Thing is though, headphones are stuck to your head/ears. Any head movements, how ever small naturally result in the actual physical source of audio, the headphone drivers, moving with you as they are clamped to the sides of your head.
On the one hand, this can be a source of immersion due to the focus and isolation, particularly in the case of closed-backs but on the other hand, it's not realistic. . . It's not representative of how we perceive and process audio cues from our surrounding environment.

You will no doubt have listened to a true surround speaker setup at some point in your life, if not in the home AV space then at the very least in the cinema. In such a setup, do the speakers adjust themselves in angle or position if the user moves their head, let alone their body position? No. When you set-up a surround system, you fix your channels and speakers, perhaps do some calibration for distances, time delay and other environmental characteristics to optimise the experience to an ideal listening position, a sweet spot and then you leave it like that until if and when you decide it needs to be recalibrated, moved or modified. But in the here and now of your listening session while playing game or watching a film, the setup is fixed. If you shift your position at all, whether just tilting your head to the side or a more substantial repositioning of your body such as leaning over onto the left armrest when you were previously leaning on the right, tilting a reclining chair back etc., the speaker setup remains fixed in the same position with time delay and whatever else set as per last calibration.


So even if a given VSS is otherwise amazing, even if it's an otherwise perfect replication of a true surround setup, the moment you introduce movement that physically moves the source of the sound - the headphone drivers - in tandem with your own personal anatomical audio receiver -your ears - that simple fact in and as of itself prevents true replication of a multichannel speaker system.

Now, that's not to claim that listening to a multichannel spear system is a perfect replication of the way audio behaves in real-life either, but when the positional cues of the audio environment come from a fixed sphere or soundstage that only changes per the instructions of the source content / audio mixing while the listening ears are left free to regularly shift in position (however minimally / otherwise imperceptibly) due to the head's micro-movements resulting from respiration, chewing / swallowing, miscellaneous small shifts in head position etc. for comfort, - that is much closer and more realistic to not only a true multichannel speaker setup but also to how we perceive and process sounds in real life.

Those micro-movements help our ears and brains better pinpoint location from direction and depth perception etc. A crude way of demonstrating this without headtracking would be to try it out in a non-VR game with any VSS solution (doesn't need to be Waves). Find a fixed point audio cue (preferably a constant one or a repeating one) that's faint or slightly vague in terms of positioning. Cues made quiet because they are far away are ideal for this. Alternatively, you could pick a louder cue from a busy audio environment where there are other cues and general background noise competing for your attention, congesting the soundscape and hampering precise imaging of that particular cue in question. Cues that are continuously sounding (e.g. a waterfall) or providing a repeated but vague cycle of samples somewhere off screen / out of sight, are best suited for our purposes. If possible it should be one that you couldn't see in the first place so you really are vague about exact imaging of its location as source.

Once you have chosen your sample cue and you can _vaguely _image/place it, put the controller down or disengage from the keyboard so that the game engine camera is still/stationary. Now try listening to it through headphones. Move your head from side to side (if necessary hold your cans to your head if they are loose or in danger of falling off), back and forth and mix it up with a combination of both. For the most part, the cue in question won't image any better. It won't become any clearer, more solid or distinct because the actual real-life source of the sound, the drivers, are moving in tandem with your head. And here's the rub, if it does improve at all, that will be due to the headphones' movements not exactly matching that of your head.

For the next part, keep the headphones on but this time, keep your head still and use the mouse or analogue stick to give the game camera a good shake. The audio cue will become a bit clearer and more solid because your attention is focused on following that source cue in motion even though your head / ears are relatively unmoving and moreover, because the audio processing of that cue will subtly change its audio characteristics or properties in line with the change in position relative to your in-game avatar's stationary position in the game's audio environment.

It's the same with VSS + headtracking only in reverse. The virtual environment and cues are anchored in that instance, and instead of the game camera, it's your head that's moving and changing your relative position in relation to the cue. When the virtualised speaker setup has an anchor point versus a fixed listening position, moving your head however little, will facilitate easier recognition and both conscious tracking and subconscious imaging of the cue in question. That's due to the natural audio 'decoding' capabilities of our ears and brains.

All that is why Mobius / Orbit and Waves NX has head tracking. It's why Redscape offers their own usb headtracker and VSS software as a competitor to Waves. It is why the Smyth Realiser A16 comes bundled with a head tracker, as did its predecessor, the years old A8, and why the Beyer Dynamic Headzone Pro from over a decade ago (one version of which was reviewed by MLE) back when VR had no presence in the home entertainment space, was marketed as the ultimate luxury headphone VSS dac/amp complete with ridiculous looking antenna emitter and headphone mounted aerial despite being intended for conventional forms of multimedia. None of those products were intended for VR, they were all intended for movies, music and conventional gaming in VSS.


----------



## 474194

Hey SM / Guys...

I was hoping to report some good news on my attempt @ Hesuvi, but nothing but snags.  No rush for this as I don't have time till the weekend to tackle this project.

My first snag was Hesuvi => Fulla2.  When you click configure only "Stereo" option.  Ok, no worries, I remember SM mentioning onboard soundcard w/optical so scratch Fulla2 and focus on optical Hugo2.  

I never had a need for onboard soundcard since we use USB DAC/AMP, so I installed the ALC898 software.  After M$ driver updates, all good.  Optical into Hugo2 working.

Snag, the configure button is greyed out.  I did not want to install VB cable because latency, but did anyways.  VB cable downloaded and de-compressed.  It's corrupt, doesn't install.  I tried plugging HP in the back of the motherboard and that is fine, can configure 5.1 / 7.1.  But I'm trying to get this going for optical.

I read something about a dummy 3.5mm, so I ordered a DIY 3.5mm to try.

I'll start researching some more, but any hints in the right direction would be great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2020)

I remember Hesuvi being a massive chore to setup properly. Once I removed it, I certainly didn't wanna go through that hassle again.

But I think once you get it, it really does work really well.


----------



## deadchip12

I notice everytime when I enable dolby atmos for headphone for surround effect and then after a while disable it for pure stereo, the volume becomes really small. Restarting the computer raises the volume to normal again. Any idea?


----------



## ronfifer

Sorry Deadchip to interject before you getting any replies...
I have a short time window to buy the m570 because it is on sale and I'm low on cash, my question is:
How do the Monolith M570 perform in terms of positional accuracy in competitive FPS gaming? Pinpointing enemy sounds across the map etc...
Do they offer vertical positioning as well? (Enemies on the upper or lower floor).
I already own the K702, HE-4XX, and AD900x, and all seem to lack vertical positioning in Battlefield 1, so wondering if this would be an upgrade.-Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Sorry Deadchip to interject before you getting any replies...
> I have a short time window to buy the m570 because it is on sale and I'm low on cash, my question is:
> How do the Monolith M570 perform in terms of positional accuracy in competitive FPS gaming? Pinpointing enemy sounds across the map etc...
> Do they offer vertical positioning as well? (Enemies on the upper or lower floor).
> I already own the K702, HE-4XX, and AD900x, and all seem to lack vertical positioning in Battlefield 1, so wondering if this would be an upgrade.-Thank you


I honestly don't think you should be expecting vertical positioning from ANY headphone unless you VSS you're using like game enabled Atmos (like Overwatch) has vertical sound cues. Remember, you're limited to 7.1 horizontally placed speakers being emulated down, so there is no such thing as height cues there. When people say things like like it's over their heads, it's usually like a helicopter nearing their imminent vicinity where sounds are placed inside your head (and sounds in the head will be above your ears in general). So it's more like visual information tricking our auditory senses.

There are headphones with tall soundstages, sure like the Drop Edition XX, but tall soundstages don't mean you're gonna get height cues.


----------



## Evshrug

*What IS double amping?*
Many people don’t realize this, but the Analog section of a Digital to Analog Converter (*DAC*) actually is an amplifier of sorts, with a fixed output setting. This is why, for example, upgrading the OpAmps in a Creative Sound Blaster X7 benefits the headphone output AND the RCA “Line Out” on the back.

So, technically, any time you connect a stand-alone amp to a stand-alone DAC, you’re “double amping,” and you’re only “hurting” the sound fidelity if your amp is noticeably worse than the Analog section of the DAC in some way... for example, if the amp has a potentiometer to control and lower the volume from max.

*Why am I mentioning this?*
If you’re using a DAC/amp with a digital volume control, such as the Sennheiser GSX1000, you can potentially connect a discrete amp to the headphone jack without degrading the fidelity to a noticeable extent, and enjoy the benefit of a surround DSP + a higher power amp + harder to drive headphone. I frequently used my GSX 1000 that way, and I would endorse it to others to try.


----------



## Evshrug

ronfifer said:


> Sorry Deadchip to interject before you getting any replies...
> I have a short time window to buy the m570 because it is on sale and I'm low on cash, my question is:
> How do the Monolith M570 perform in terms of positional accuracy in competitive FPS gaming? Pinpointing enemy sounds across the map etc...
> Do they offer vertical positioning as well? (Enemies on the upper or lower floor).
> I already own the K702, HE-4XX, and AD900x, and all seem to lack vertical positioning in Battlefield 1, so wondering if this would be an upgrade.-Thank you



Azimuth (height) direction for True 3D surround is game-dependent and AFAIK not that common now. 7.1 Surround is a (2D) ring of speakers placed around the seating position, so you would not get vertical positioning.

Not sure about battlefield 1 (never bought it personally), but in Battlefield 4 and 3 there was a “headphones” setting where the game would digitally process a binaural (true Headphone 3D, designed for the two headphone speakers/drivers that are set next to your ears) sound mix, which you could then output to any 2-channel DAC and amp. It was a bit generalized and did not place directions the most realistically, BUT the directions were usually fairly distinct and it had vertical positioning. See if the “headphones” setting (with everything else set to 2.0/Stereo) sounds 3D to you, and if you prefer that or the 7.1 processing of your existing DSP.


----------



## thewind32

AppleheadMay said:


> Anybody else not getting email updates of watched threads anymore?



Me. Didn't realise there had been so many replies.

I went to my list of watched threads, ticked the email checkbox of the threads I want, and selected enable email notification in the dropdown menu at the bottom of the page, and finally hit go. Not sure if that has any effect (there's no indication of which threads will send emails after the page refreshes), will have to observe over the next few days.


----------



## AppleheadMay

thewind32 said:


> Me. Didn't realise there had been so many replies.
> 
> I went to my list of watched threads, ticked the email checkbox of the threads I want, and selected enable email notification in the dropdown menu at the bottom of the page, and finally hit go. Not sure if that has any effect (there's no indication of which threads will send emails after the page refreshes), will have to observe over the next few days.



Thanks, but they started to come back in yesterday night.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Can't really figure out boom3D. The settings has seem to only work one at a time, and none give me the positional accuracy of rear cues...


----------



## Velsu

SierraMadre said:


> Like I said, the source audio device that Waves NX piggy backs on to _needs to be multichannel capable. _ It must be capable  of receiving and recognising a discrete multichannel surround signal. The Syba is just a stereo dac/amp so Waves was only being given a stereo source feed to virtualise so it's no wonder it wasn't that great for you. You were getting a virtualised stereo speaker setup rather than a virtual 7.1 surround setup. I _repeat_, you need a 5.1 or 7.1 capable audio device as source in the first instance. That could be your onboard soundchip if it's capable or an external dac/amp that has those capabilities like a Sound blaster G6.
> 
> Choose the audio source from the Waves Central app and then ensure that it's set to 5.1 or 7/1. Can't remember if you can do this straight from the Waves app, hence why I recommended doing it through the Windows sound manager just to be sure, see below screen shot. I can't find my headtracker at present and Waves NX isn't installed on my Surface anyway, it's on my gaming rig which isn't here, so I can't illustrate the process exactly but it shows audio device configuration via Windows OS including the access path.
> 
> ...



I am blown away sir....speechless. Thank You for explaining all of this. Just wow.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2020)

Velsu said:


> I am blown away sir....speechless. Thank You for explaining all of this. Just wow.


Btw, I don't know if its a freak coincidence, but that very same Pascal scene from the Tales of Graces cutscene was the same screen grab I used as an avatar for YEARS here and elsewhere.


----------



## Velsu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Btw, I don't know if its a freak coincidence, but that very same Pascal scene from the Tales of Graces cutscene was the same screen grab I used as an avatar for YEARS here and elsewhere.



The avatar was for sure coincidence but we go years back on this one haha. I used it when i registered in 2012 and posted in this thread. Asked for advice and i got this quote from You:



> OMG you have a Pascal avatar (just noticed). You have all my internets. I LOVE Pascal. She is kind of like the second coming of Yuffie for me. XD



And by the sheer luck i got Your attention and detailed help which headphones to pick which ultimately resulted in DT 990 Edition that i just adore for today. I am actually thinking about an upgrade as they are slowly falling apart but i will just study the first page to see what i could pick. I reference Your guide from 8 years already whenever i want some info


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2020)

Velsu said:


> The avatar was for sure coincidence but we go years back on this one haha. I used it when i registered in 2012 and posted in this thread. Asked for advice and i got this quote from You:
> 
> 
> 
> And by the sheer luck i got Your attention and detailed help which headphones to pick which ultimately resulted in DT 990 Edition that i just adore for today. I am actually thinking about an upgrade as they are slowly falling apart but i will just study the first page to see what i could pick. I reference Your guide from 8 years already whenever i want some info


Oh snap, maybe seeing it made me look into it and ended up getting it, lol. So in fact I copied you! Hahaha.

I'm glad this guide helped you and whomever found a little bit of guidance. I know the headphone game ain't easy.

Luckily I still have the Edition XX that I reviewed, and its helped curbed most of my needs to move up or sideways. It really does basically everything I want. Have great linear bass presence, fantastic large and tall soundstage, and detailed sound without it being too much or too little on emphasis. I'd steer more people this way if it was always available. Definition could be a little sharper, but it's no biggie.


----------



## Velsu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh snap, maybe seeing it made me look into it and ended up getting it, lol. So in fact I copied you! Hahaha.
> 
> I'm glad this guide helped you and whomever found a little bit of guidance. I know the headphone game ain't easy.
> 
> Luckily I still have the Edition XX that I reviewed, and its helped curbed most of my needs to move up or sideways. It really does basically everything I want. Have great linear bass presence, fantastic large and tall soundstage, and detailed sound without it being too much or too little on emphasis. I'd steer more people this way if it was always available. Definition could be a little sharper, but it's no biggie.



It is possible that You copied me then lol. Yes Your guide is just amazing, if someone wants he can find all the necessary info but the final decision is up to his ears. I hope images and overall layout will be fixed soon due to the forum changes, must be tough, hopefully they won't shift it back after You are done fixing it.

I am also thinking that maybe i should just try to replace earpads in my DT 990 and instead of upgrading to get an amp and see if that makes a difference (currently using XiFi Titanium HD which is a blast, but i want more. But that might do as a very good DAC). I am also thinking about stepping into Sennheiser land with HD600 or HD700 or try the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (hopefully this is how it is spelled).
With Auzede Mobius beign shipped to me i could focus on movies and games on that one and get pair of cans dedicated to music (unless Audeze surprise me like You mentioned in the guide and they will be great for music).

We will see. In summary if not Your guide i would still be stuck with some low tier set and miss a lot and i bet i am not the only one.


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 4, 2020)

Velsu said:


> It is possible that You copied me then lol. Yes Your guide is just amazing, if someone wants he can find all the necessary info but the final decision is up to his ears. I hope images and overall layout will be fixed soon due to the forum changes, must be tough, hopefully they won't shift it back after You are done fixing it.
> 
> I am also thinking that maybe i should just try to replace earpads in my DT 990 and instead of upgrading to get an amp and see if that makes a difference (currently using XiFi Titanium HD which is a blast, but i want more. But that might do as a very good DAC). I am also thinking about stepping into Sennheiser land with HD600 or HD700 or try the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home (hopefully this is how it is spelled).
> With Auzede Mobius beign shipped to me i could focus on movies and games on that one and get pair of cans dedicated to music (unless Audeze surprise me like You mentioned in the guide and they will be great for music).
> ...


Let us know how you like the Mobius I really want to get the Mobius, but because i switch from PC / Console i feel like it will be a waste of money and also currently using the dt 990's  I am also contemplating getting the soundblaster x3 for pc and g3 for console


----------



## stavros.m

stavros.m said:


> Let us know how you like the Mobius I really want to get the Mobius, but because i switch from PC / Console i feel like it will be a waste of money and also currently using the dt 990's. I am also contemplating getting the soundblaster x3 for pc and g3 for console


----------



## SierraMadre

AC-12 said:


> Hey SM / Guys...
> 
> I was hoping to report some good news on my attempt @ Hesuvi, but nothing but snags.  No rush for this as I don't have time till the weekend to tackle this project.
> 
> ...


What you are sending to the Fulla / Hugo would be pre-virtualised surround in a stereo signal anyway so you don't really need to mandate optical in this instance unless you prefer it to USB for other reasons (such as USB giving you problems with noise etc.).

Fulla and Hugo are not multichannel capable so you can't configure them as multichannel. You can use an existing multichannel capable device for Hesuvi to piggy back your stereo-only output device onto. 

VB cable is only for when there are no such multichannel proxy devices available. It is unnecessary and not recommended for when you have a multichannel capable device to hand as appears to be the case with your onboard soundchip. 

Use the Audio Repeater KS method detailed in the Hesuvi setup help guide on the wiki. It's right above the VB cable setup instructions.



stavros.m said:


> Let us know how you like the Mobius I really want to get the Mobius, but because i switch from PC / Console i feel like it will be a waste of money and also currently using the dt 990's  I am also contemplating getting the soundblaster x3 for pc and g3 for console


Don't bother with the G3 if you want it for VSS from consoles. It can't receive multichannel from current consoles as they are limited to stereo output from USB and the G3's optical input appears to be for chat audio mixing purposes only. 
For VSS on PlayStation, you want something that can receive a dolby digital 5.1 bitstream via optical to mix into VSS. That would be something like the Sound Blaster G6, Astro mixamp etc. Same for Xbox unless you prefer Atmos for headphone or Windows Sonic.

For Switch, you're out of luck as far as VSS through dedicated dac/amps go. You'd need an AV receiver or TV with its own built-in VSS for headphones or a device that could transcode linear PCM received via HDMI into Dolby Digital 5.1 for output via optical to a compatible gaming dac/amp.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> Don't bother with the G3 if you want it for VSS from consoles. It can't receive multichannel from current consoles as they are limited to stereo output from USB and the G3's optical input appears to be for chat audio mixing purposes only.
> For VSS on PlayStation, you want something that can receive a dolby digital 5.1 bitstream via optical to mix into VSS. That would be something like the Sound Blaster G6, Astro mixamp etc. Same for Xbox unless you prefer Atmos for headphone or Windows Sonic.
> 
> For Switch, you're out of luck as far as VSS through dedicated dac/amps go. You'd need an AV receiver or TV with its own built-in VSS for headphones or a device that could transcode linear PCM received via HDMI into Dolby Digital 5.1 for output via optical to a compatible gaming dac/amp.



Thanks again for all the help
Maybe the Mobius or  X3 still is the best route i get the full experience on the PC and still connects to consoles in stereo


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 4, 2020)

So Creative have a pair of "Super X-Fi Planars" on the way with an SXFI AMP seemingly built into the headphone wire.










Additionally, their rumoured HDMI SXFI 'set-top' receiver appears geared towards wireless use via the SXFI Theater cans. Assuming the pics below are  indicative of the final prototype, hopefully the side that they have propped the unit up on features a headphone jack for wired headphones of the user's choice because the other three sides visible in the pics have no such port.












Source article:

https://www.eteknix.com/creative-unleash-new-super-x-fi-hardware-for-2020/



stavros.m said:


> Thanks again for all the help
> Maybe the Mobius or  X3 still is the best route i get the full experience on the PC and still connects to consoles in stereo


If you want to go the dac/amp-only route then the G6 or X7 would give your Beyers full SBX for all platforms other than Switch. 

If you want SXFI too while still getting SBX for Playstation and Xbox then the best value combo would be a G6 plus the SXFI Amp.  That would be considerably cheaper than the Mobius, over $100 if you shop around.


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 4, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> If you want to go the dac/amp-only route then the G6 or X7 would give your Beyers full SBX for all platforms other than Switch.
> 
> If you want SXFI too while still getting SBX for Playstation and Xbox then the best value combo would be a G6 plus the SXFI Amp.  That would be considerably cheaper than the Mobius, over $100 if you shop around.



Do you recommed the amp over the x3? Is there a big difference?
Also you just posted those Planers look interesting lol
the theaters look good but not available in canada


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 4, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Do you recommed the amp over the x3? Is there a big difference?
> Also you just posted those Planers look interesting lol


Yeah. See my previous comments for further elaboration. You can use the UI search function to search for specific key words in posts by specific users on specific threads. Just search "X3", specifying this thread and my user name 

.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> Yeah. See my previous comments for further elaboration. You can use the UI search function to search for specific key words in posts by specific users on specific threads. Just search "X3", specify this thread and my user name .


thank you i will go through the search


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 4, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> thank you i will go through the search


Ignore the post where I recommended X3 for SXFI back when I first got it. I have just edited it now in case anyone else comes across it.

At the time of that original posting, I had only cursorily tested SXFI on it, assuming that it would generally be as good as SXFI on the SXFI AMP which I already owned and had plenty of experience with.

Having since tested it more, the X3 has problems with SXFI which correspond to the subject of  a number of complaints from other users on reddit and the net.

If you want a SXFI dac/amp, stick with the SXFI Amp for now.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@SierraMadre 

Which device/technology do you like best for VSS, SBX (with the G6), SXFI (with the SXFI Amp) or Sennheiser (with the GSX1000)?

I have the GSX and ordered the SXFI amp and G6 to try and compare them all but your opinion would be greatly appreciated seen your experience you have with the matter.

I am the kind of user that will keep the sound as original as possible, the only thing I want to apply is VSS to 7.1, 5.1 or stereo sound from games and have a nice spatial sound and soundstage. 
I won't be using EQ, scout modes, presets etc. I also don't use a mic. 
I don't matter if the devices has these features like the G6, that device has optical VSS sound out which is a great plus if I want to connect it to a Modi/Magni stack.
My GSX1000 for example is either used in stereo with Dolby Atmos for Headphones or in 7.1 with one "+" for the reverb (bigger soundsatge) and all the rest off.


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> @SierraMadre
> 
> Which device/technology do you like best for VSS, SBX (with the G6), SXFI (with the SXFI Amp) or Sennheiser (with the GSX1000)?
> 
> ...


I would Like to know the answer to that as well, lol! TBH, I don’t have enough experience of GSX to give an informed opinion. 
MLE would be the guy to ask for GSX vs SXFI and SBX opinions.

What little I tried of the GSX1000 impressed me but the relatively high price combined with the weak amp and limitation to Windows 10 native VSS protocol limiting bit depth and sample rate to 16 bit 44khz put me off. . . But I have heard such good things since then that I will probably get one anyway as soon as I see it on sale at a reasonable discount.

My best VSS experiences thus far are Waves NX w/head tracking, SXFI via the AMP and Boom 3D. I don’t like too much colour on the sound either and it was only the recent SXFI Gen 2 update that tamed the reverb a bit that made SXFI palatable to me.

The problem with SXFI remains however that there is no way to adjust the reverb. Hopefully they will address this in the future Gen 3 update to the algorithm but for now how much reverb you get will be decided by your headphones, the SXFI headphone model compensation profile you choose And your own personal HRTF with no way to influence it directly. 

Waves NX stand-alone has at least a few presets for this while the Mobius has a full 0-100 room effect slider. SBX on the G6 also has an intensity slider.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yep, too much choice indeed, hard to pick one and stay with it. But thanks for the Boom 3D tip, I will try that one out as well.
For now I have only been comparing Atmos for Headphones and Sennheiser and I like them both depending on the source material.
For PS4, as I don't have many games on it, just some PS exclusives and almost all of them come with Sony's own VSS I use the Platinum headset.
The G6 and SXFI amp should come in this week so I'll have some testing to do this weekend.


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> Yep, too much choice indeed, hard to pick one and stay with it. But thanks for the Boom 3D tip, I will try that one out as well.
> For now I have only been comparing Atmos for Headphones and Sennheiser and I like them both depending on the source material.
> For PS4, as I don't have many games on it, just some PS exclusives and almost all of them come with Sony's own VSS I use the Platinum headset.
> The G6 and SXFI amp should come in this week so I'll have some testing to do this weekend.


Yeah, I like the Platinum headset too.


----------



## stavros.m

AppleheadMay said:


> Yep, too much choice indeed, hard to pick one and stay with it. But thanks for the Boom 3D tip, I will try that one out as well.
> For now I have only been comparing Atmos for Headphones and Sennheiser and I like them both depending on the source material.
> For PS4, as I don't have many games on it, just some PS exclusives and almost all of them come with Sony's own VSS I use the Platinum headset.
> The G6 and SXFI amp should come in this week so I'll have some testing to do this weekend.



I just started playing with Boom3D and liking it more then WavesNX maybe because i have no way to use it with the head tracker and my desktop inboard sound card is pretty crappy but it doesnt support 5.1 / 7.1.  Plus for me the presets seems to have a lot of reverb with my dt 990's.

I was thinking of getting the sxfi amp which was mentioned but for some reason i cannot get it on creative website, amazon or newegg here in canada same goes for the sxfi theater and i hear the headphones haven't gotten the sxfi gen2 yet.

I really want the Mobius but i am having a hard time to justify the price since i game on PC and Console and while i was thinking of getting the Platinum headset is it worth it now that PS5 will be coming out.

The G6 would probably be the best for me, but again i am probably over thinking it but i have a hard time paying 250CDN for something 2+ years old and my opinion sxfi would probably be the future.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Which Waves NX is that?
I find it here for $99.99 https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx?gc...AAEgJAZfD_BwE#introducing-nx-virtual-mix-room
And here fro $9.99 https://www.waves.com/nx/apps


----------



## stavros.m

AppleheadMay said:


> Which Waves NX is that?
> I find it here for $99.99 https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx?gc...AAEgJAZfD_BwE#introducing-nx-virtual-mix-room
> And here fro $9.99 https://www.waves.com/nx/apps


 i tried the 9.99 it has a free trial for like 14 days or 30 cannot remember at the moment


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> Which Waves NX is that?
> I find it here for $99.99 https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx?gc...AAEgJAZfD_BwE#introducing-nx-virtual-mix-room
> And here fro $9.99 https://www.waves.com/nx/apps


Not the $99 one that’s the pro audio mixing software suite, central hub app.

The $9.99 one is the basic entertainment iteration that offers Waves NX VSS and supports head tracking via the official wireless Bluetooth clip-on headtracker which costs about 100 bucks or webcam. Requires a multichannel capable audio device to piggy back onto though for full surround config VSS.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 5, 2020)

I wonder what the difference is, from what I can find they look like the same apps.

Edit, sorry, didn't see your post yet @SierraMadre .

Ok, I'll try the $9.99 one with the camera first, I can always order a head tracker if I like it.



SierraMadre said:


> Not the $99 one that’s the pro audio mixing software suite, central hub app.
> 
> The $9.99 one is the basic entertainment iteration that offers Waves NX VSS and supports head tracking via the official wireless Bluetooth clip-on headtracker which costs about 100 bucks or webcam. Requires a multichannel capable audio device to piggy back onto though for full surround config VSS.



So you need to use it with a GSX1000, G6 or SXFI for example,, a 2 channel DAC won't work?


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder what the difference is, from what I can find they look like the same apps.


They aren’t. The expensive one is for mixing and pro monitoring of audio streams and offers a central hub for various plug-ins.

The entertainment one  just turns VSS on and off, offers some limited fx customisation and head tracking.



AppleheadMay said:


> So you need to use it with a GSX1000, G6 or SXFI for example,, a 2 channel DAC won't work?


2 channel dac would only offer virtualisation of 2.0 stereo speakers.

Any multichannel capable device that windows can recognise as such would give you the full/proper experience, including even just a multichannel capable mobo/onboard audio chip.


----------



## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> They aren’t. The expensive one is for mixing and pro monitoring of audio streams and is offers a central hub for various plug-ins.
> 
> The entertainment one  just turns VSS on and off, offers some limited fx customisation and head tracking.
> 
> ...




Thank you very much, definitely something to look into!
I suppose you disable all VSS on the 7.1 device then.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Or my AVR receiver over HDMI, that one gets detected as 7.1 as well.
So if I take that one, configure it as 7.1, apply the Waves NX effect for headphones and listen to the phones out of the receiver.
Would that work?


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Thank you very much, definitely something to look into!
> I suppose you disable all VSS on the 7.1 device then.


You’re welcome and yes.



AppleheadMay said:


> Or my AVR receiver over HDMI, that one gets detected as 7.1 as well.
> So if I take that one, configure it as 7.1, apply the Waves NX effect for headphones and listen to the phones out of the receiver.
> Would that work?



Probably. Can’t imagine why not. There’s a free trial so you can try before you buy.



stavros.m said:


> I just started playing with Boom3D and liking it more then WavesNX maybe because i have no way to use it with the head tracker and my desktop inboard sound card is pretty crappy but it doesnt support 5.1 / 7.1.  Plus for me the presets seems to have a lot of reverb with my dt 990's.
> 
> I was thinking of getting the sxfi amp which was mentioned but for some reason i cannot get it on creative website, amazon or newegg here in canada same goes for the sxfi theater and i hear the headphones haven't gotten the sxfi gen2 yet.
> 
> ...


If you get the G6, you would also be able to use it for Waves with webcam or headtracker, Boom, Atmos headphone etc. on PC and probably apply any software VSS offered by the next gen consoles (assuming Sony allow the PS5’s proprietary native VSS to be pushed to external third party devices) which is particularly useful because it’s just a very good gaming dac/amp for the price in general. You can also push audio, EQ and FX out to speakers or another Dac/amp like your Syba Sonic if you so choose.
I use the G6 for Waves, Atmos for headphone and Boom 3D on the PC and Atmos for headphone on the Xbox One.


Re Mobius and SXFI future proofing

It’s just speculation at this point but I have a feeling that the next gen consoles will support discrete multichannel PCM output via USB just like PC does at the moment. If this does happen then there’s a good chance that Mobius / Orbit and SXFI devices will be updated for full compatibility so getting a Mobius or SXFI device may not rule out full console compatibility in the future.


Platinum Wireless and cheap alternative option for PS4 VSS dac/amp - Earforce DSS2

The Platinum Wireless doubles as a good wireless headset for PC although the VSS is limited to PS4 only. It’s also relatively inexpensive.
I’d say the Platinum’s worth it as a temporary PS solution but if you want to go the SXFI or Mobius route now and just want something to tidy you over on PS P4 for ultra cheap, then if your Beyer’s are the 32ohm model (which I have heard  are easy to drive) then you could just get the Earforce DSS2.

It can be found new for around 20 bucks if you shop around, supports Dolby digital 5.1 decoding via optical in and is the only gaming dac/amp I know of that offers configuration of the virtual surround speaker positions (you can choose from multiple presets). Additionally it’s very small and light. I got one recently for 20 and was very impressed. It’s a bit reverby but not that much more than SXFI.


In any case, I think we have reached the limit of recommendation and conjecture, where you go from here is best determined by you trying/buying, forming your own hands-on impressions and return/refunding as necessary until you are happy.

Good luck!


----------



## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> You’re welcome and yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks!
You gave me a lot of info and useful tips. I really appreciate the software tips, especially Waves NX intrigues me.
I will indeed have to try some stuff out and I have an idea of the direction I want to go in, I just need to hear what device and/or software works and sounds best for me now.
Luckily I have a 4-day weekend ahead so I'll be able to do some testing.


----------



## stavros.m

SierraMadre said:


> You’re welcome and yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you again so much to think about before i decide what to get


----------



## 474194

SierraMadre said:


> What you are sending to the Fulla / Hugo would be pre-virtualised surround in a stereo signal anyway so you don't really need to mandate optical in this instance unless you prefer it to USB for other reasons (such as USB giving you problems with noise etc.).
> 
> Fulla and Hugo are not multichannel capable so you can't configure them as multichannel. You can use an existing multichannel capable device for Hesuvi to piggy back your stereo-only output device onto.
> 
> ...



Many thanks.  I'll try out over weekend.  I see an issue though as Audio Repeater KS requires you follow steps 1-6 of the VB Cable section.  So will have to re-visit getting VB Cable to work.


----------



## SierraMadre

AC-12 said:


> Many thanks.  I'll try out over weekend.  I see an issue though as Audio Repeater KS requires you follow steps 1-6 of the VB Cable section.  So will have to re-visit getting VB Cable to work.


That is true but if you can get it to work then no added latency. There are two separate download links for VB cable so try both if you have problems installing


----------



## 474194 (Feb 5, 2020)

I'm trying to wrap my head around all this 5.1, 7.1, surround stuff for gaming, but I remember I have a few optical devices I can use for videos.  Below I use the larger device on the left because the sound is much more dynamic.  The smaller device in the middle sounds flat, so I'm thinking of repurposing to a OSMC (KODI) media center.  It should be able to output DD/DTS.  Do you recommend a G6?  Any device that also decodes DTS?  I plan to stick with headphones and output video to an HDMI monitor.

https://osmc.tv/

https://www.instructables.com/id/Create-a-video-player-with-Dolby-DigitalDTS-output/


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> I'm trying to wrap my head around all this 5.1, 7.1, surround stuff for gaming, but I remember I have a few optical devices I can use for videos.  Below I use the larger device on the left because the sound is much more dynamic.  The smaller device in the middle sounds flat, so I'm thinking of repurposing to a OSMC (KODI) media center.  It should be able to output DD/DTS.  Do you recommend a G6?  Any device that also decodes DTS?  I plan to stick with headphones and output video to an HDMI monitor.
> 
> https://osmc.tv/
> 
> https://www.instructables.com/id/Create-a-video-player-with-Dolby-DigitalDTS-output/


You don’t need Dolby or DTS capable devices for PC gaming as PC games typically use PCM. It’s just PS and Xbox that require DD5.1 via optical for decoding discrete multichannel and converting into headphone VSS via external dac/amps.

If it’s PC videos only then you will need a media player app that supports Dolby Digital and DTS5.1 passthrough and a dac/amp receiver that can decode it and convert into headphone VSS. I think Windows now supports both as of last year, not sure if it supports vanilla Dolby digital or DD+. It would need to be vanilla DD or DTS 5.1 if you’re using optical for the multichannel stream though as DD plus and higher are not supported by optical.

In that type of situtation, I’d me more inclined just to do everything via Atmos for headphone or the like and not worry about the external dac/amps decoding capabilities.

Beyond that, I’m not the best person to ask about audio for HTPCs. I use Netflix on PC sometimes but for everything else, streaming, disc media,  it’s all Xbox or the onboard apps on my TV.

Also, I don’t know of any DTS decoding capable gaming dac/amps or cheap all purpose dac/amps, only Dolby Digital.


----------



## 474194

SierraMadre said:


> You don’t need Dolby or DTS capable devices for PC gaming as PC games typically use PCM. It’s just PS and Xbox that require DD5.1 via optical for decoding discrete multichannel and converting into headphone VSS via external dac/amps.
> 
> If it’s PC videos only then you will need a media player app that supports Dolby Digital and DTS5.1 passthrough and a dac/amp receiver that can decode it and convert into headphone VSS. I think Windows now supports both as of last year, not sure if it supports vanilla Dolby digital or DD+. It would need to be vanilla DD or DTS 5.1 if you’re using optical for the multichannel stream though as DD plus and higher are not supported by optical.
> 
> ...



Okay, I'll check what's out there for videos.  It's kinda off-topic anyways.  Maybe a simple A/V receiver would work better than something like the G6.  I guess I'm just looking for a reason to keep from returning the G6.  If Hesuvi doesn't work out, maybe there is no choice.


----------



## 474194

oic now, HDMI is needed for modern video surround tech:





I just need basic DD, nothing serious.  I think it's best to keep the G6.  It's too much trouble for workarounds and worrying about possible latency.  I hope I can optical into the G6, configure 7.1 / hesuvi / direct mode and possibly optical out into a Chord DAC.

I'll open G6 package and attempt this weekend.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I wonder since I seem to like software solutions like Dolby Atmos for Headphones a lot that I could do with just adding Waves NX and not use hardware like the G6.
I could then enable the soundcard on my MB (Pretty decent, based on SB, the MB is an Aorus Z390 Extreme), apply either DAH or Waves NX and send digital optical out to a Modi/Magni stack.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> oic now, HDMI is needed for modern video surround tech:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s what I was trying to say. Optical is limited to a max channel count of DD5.1, DTS 5.1 and PCM 2.0.

I don’t think there’s any point to your plan of PC > optical > G6 > optical > Chord For Hesuvi.
That would require a third audio device to be the origin of the initial PC > optical connection. That could be a multichannel onboard sound chip or a stereo one but that would be needlessly adding a third device (and in the case of a stereo onboard chip, you’d need a fourth device with multichannel capability for piggybacking or else you would have to use the not recommended VB cable method).

It would be PC > usb > G6 and simultaneously PC > usb > Chord for the Hesuvi audio KS repeater method that spoofs the multichannel capability of the G6 onto the Chord. The PC would be taking the audio from the G6, processing it with Hesuvi and then sending it out to the Chord as default/endpoint device for output.

. . . But on consideration, that would just be needlessly convoluted and a hassle to setup.
Better just to apply Hesuvi to G6 via USB and set it as Windows default audio device. No need to bother with spoofing/ piggy backing / repeating onto the Chord. The Chord would receive the processed audio from the G6 via optical and would not need to be registered or active as an audio device in Windows at all. In fact, it would not even need to be connected to the PC.


----------



## ronfifer

Fegefeuer said:


> Someone in this thread bought the TH-600 + Mixamp (+some portable amp) and was hugely amazed by it. I can only speak for the TH-900 and it's still my favorite can. Relatively easy to drive, great, cohorent soundstage, very very deep hard hittingbass with low decay, very low distortion so despite its pronounced bass not fatigueing at all (like X1 or Signature DJ from my own experience) and very detailed.
> 
> So if the TH-600 is even half as good it would be a very good recommendation. Plus he'd save quite some money.
> Maybe that guy can chime in and give his further impressions.



U said the th-900 had a fast decay in other posts and that's why MLE eventually abandoned his pair because he preferred a slower decay as in the D7000. Maybe i misunderstood.


----------



## Vader2k (Feb 6, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> Additionally, their rumoured HDMI SXFI 'set-top' receiver appears geared towards wireless use via the SXFI Theater cans. Assuming the pics below are  indicative of the final prototype, hopefully the side that they have propped the unit up on features a headphone jack for wired headphones of the user's choice because the other three sides visible in the pics have no such port.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As far as I understand it, you can only plug either an SXFI Amp or an SXFI TX transmitter into the USB ports; I don't believe an analog connection will be available.  The reason for this is that the SXFI TV box itself won't do any SXFI processing.  Rather, it just acts as a pass-through to grab multi-channel audio from an HDMI source and convert it for output over USB.  Granted, this is just what I've gleaned from reading past CES articles on the subject.  It'd be great if I'm wrong and the box ends up doing SXFI processing too.


----------



## 474194 (Feb 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder since I seem to like software solutions like Dolby Atmos for Headphones a lot that I could do with just adding Waves NX and not use hardware like the G6.
> I could then enable the soundcard on my MB (Pretty decent, based on SB, the MB is an Aorus Z390 Extreme), apply either DAH or Waves NX and send digital optical out to a Modi/Magni stack.



On my Realtek ALC898, the "Configure" button is greyed out" for optical.  The line out you can configure with all options, but I think optical is a no-go via MB.  HW is needed to piggy back 7.1 to 2-channel VSS optical??  Unless I'm missing something with 2-channel stereo VSS SM via optical?  Edit:  NVM.  





> 2 channel dac would only offer virtualisation of 2.0 stereo speakers.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder since I seem to like software solutions like Dolby Atmos for Headphones a lot that I could do with just adding Waves NX and not use hardware like the G6.
> I could then enable the soundcard on my MB (Pretty decent, based on SB, the MB is an Aorus Z390 Extreme), apply either DAH or Waves NX and send digital optical out to a Modi/Magni stack.


You could forgo G6 for DAH, yes, you could even just set your Modi as the default audio device via USB or optical and bypass your sound card altogether as windows *supposedly* does not require a device to be multichannel PCM capable for DAH.



AC-12 said:


> On my Realtek ALC898, the "Configure" button is greyed out".  The line out you can configure with all options, but I think optical is a no-go via MB.  HW is needed to set to 7.1 output (piggyback).  Unless I'm missing something with 2-channel stereo VSS SM via optical?



 For Waves though, I’m not sure if optical would be the best option or if it would even work properly. The multichannel device you specify as source for Waves is used to create a Waves virtual device which acts as the Windows default audio device for output. If you set the onboard’s optical device (windows recognises the various outputs of the internal soundcard as separate devices), beyond stereo PCM, it would be limited to 5.1 Dolby digital or DTS. As PC games are PCM, I’m not sure how the compatibility in codec would interface with Waves NX which assumes a multichannel PCM source. Windows needs to be able to use the sound card to extract/ process multichannel PCM from the game’s audio. The multichannel capability of optical out on sound cards AFAIK tends to be confined to Dolby or DTS encoding or transcoding rather than decoding.

In short, I’m not sure whether Waves would be able to recognise the optical component of your onboard chipset as multichannel capable (as opposed to the other output components of the onboard audio), or properly process it if it is recognised. Even if it could, you would be limited to applying Waves to 5.1.

I don‘t think you could set the 7.1 capable component of the onboard audio as source for Waves and then just grab the output from optical like you could with the G6. Waves uses the source to create the windows default audio device which also determines the output for the processed audio. For 7.1 it would need to be the onboard chipset’s headphone out that’s routed to the front of the PC (assuming it can be configured to multichannel, some can, others can’t even if the the chipset has discrete 7.1 analogue outs) or the green front channel jack on the i/o rack of the mobo.

It would be doable on something external like the G6 because the G6 can decide itself how the audio it receives is then outputted. Once it receives the audio from the PC, what it does with it is no longer windows or Waves’ concern and you need only switch from the G6’s headphone jack to rear line-out to change where it goes.



Vader2k said:


> As far as I understand it, you can only plug either an SXFI Amp or an SXFI TX transmitter into the USB ports; I don't believe an analog connection will be available.  The reason for this is that the SXFI TV box itself won't do any SXFI processing.  Rather, it just acts as a pass-through to grab multi-channel audio from an HDMI source and convert it for output over USB.  Granted, this is just what I've gleaned from reading past CES articles on the subject.  I'd be great if I'm wrong and the box ends up doing SXFI processing too.


Ah, that makes sense so you’re probably right, thanks. In that case, at least AMP compatibility  would give us the option to use our own cans. It would be very disappointing if they shun compatibility with the AMP in favour of the SXFI Theater and Air headphones only


----------



## 474194

SierraMadre said:


> That’s what I was trying to say. Optical is limited to a max channel count of DD5.1, DTS 5.1 and PCM 2.0.
> 
> I don’t think there’s any point to your plan of PC > optical > G6 > optical > Chord For Hesuvi.
> That would require a third audio device to be the origin of the initial PC > optical connection. That could be a multichannel onboard sound chip or a stereo one but that would be needlessly adding a third device (and in the case of a stereo onboard chip, you’d need a fourth device with multichannel capability for piggybacking or else you would have to use the not recommended VB cable method).
> ...



Apologies.  Video is just a twinkle in the eye right now and I did not orientate myself on all the modern surround tech so all the acronyms went virtually and figuratively over my head.

Thanks for streamlining this process.  I don't have any extended 3.5mm optical cables on hand so my initial plan would of been as you mentioned even more convoluted.  The USB route looks straightforward as we are using a Audioquest Cinnamon USB into the Fulla2.  I just replace the Fulla2 with the G6 and don't need to worry about routing multiple optical cables all over the place.  Another + is I don't have to install the Win10 Chord driver.  I just have to set the Soundblaster SW to output to optical.  The Chord is just optional in the chain and I'm not sure if that is the long-term plan.  Setting it up this way it's easy to plug in and out a Chord DAC.

Since we got in on the G6 @120 and it's constantly out of stock, it makes sense just to keep this device.  It's back up to @150 now.  Hoping to test DD on the video side.  That would be icing to justify keeping the G6.

Time to catch up on /r/SoundBlasterOfficial...


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 5, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> Apologies.  Video is just a twinkle in the eye right now and I did not orientate myself on all the modern surround tech so all the acronyms went virtually and figuratively over my head.
> 
> Thanks for streamlining this process.  I don't have any extended 3.5mm optical cables on hand so my initial plan would of been as you mentioned even more convoluted.  The USB route looks straightforward as we are using a Audioquest Cinnamon USB into the Fulla2.  I just replace the Fulla2 with the G6 and don't need to worry about routing multiple optical cables all over the place.  Another + is I don't have to install the Win10 Chord driver.  I just have to set the Soundblaster SW to output to optical.  The Chord is just optional in the chain and I'm not sure if that is the long-term plan.  Setting it up this way it's easy to plug in and out a Chord DAC.
> 
> ...


If all you’re doing is pass through, you don’t even need to set anything in the sound blaster connect software  to output onward to your Chord via optical. The G6 just does it automatically based on available output connection. It defaults to headphones if you have headphones plugged in. It then changes to the line-out which doubles as optical-out if you disconnect the cans from the headphone jack while you have 3.5 or optical cable connected to the rear line-out.

The only thing the software is required for in this context is setting SBX features  on/off, intensity etc. and stuff like setting the sub crossover or pushing SBX VSS out of the line-out (there’s a tick box for that). 
The hardware appears to be able to save two profiles onboard, one for headphone out and the other for rear line-out, you just connect to PC and software and set each profile by making your changes in their respective modes and it saves them automatically.


----------



## Playstation

Just to let everyone know. I'm loving my x2hr's


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 6, 2020)

Ok, so the onboard Realtek probably won't allow surround applied to its 7.1 analog be routed to the digital output.
(it has an option called "Virtual Surround encodes surround audio for transfer as stereo output to receiver", not sure what it does).
https://www.gigabyte.com/mb/aorus/audio

The SBXG6 gets detected as 7.1, lets me apply WavesNX to it and then reroutes that audio to SPDIF.
Would a SB AE-5 or AE-9 allow that as well? I see it uses the same software as the G6, not sure if that option is in it.
But those don't have physical 7.1 outputs so it would only let me apply WavesNX to 5.1? The Realtek does have 7.1 outputs.
Or is the G6 still a better option than an internal SB for use with WavesNX?

And where does Hesuvi come in? Can it be used together with WavesNX?
I see it needs Equalizer APO but I think it just needs it to apply it's settings, no need to do anything in Equalizer APO myself?

On another note, has anyone tried "Out of Your Head Gamer Version"?
That one is $25 and I think it's comparable to WavesNX.
I'm not sure if it also requires a 7.1 capable device to creat 7.1 VSS or can do that with a stereo DAC.


Man, too bad I need to wait to try out all this stuff 'till Sunday!


----------



## Vader2k

SierraMadre said:


> Ah, that makes sense so you’re probably right, thanks. In that case, at least AMP compatibility  would give us the option to use our own cans. It would be very disappointing if they shun compatibility with the AMP in favour of the SXFI Theater and Air headphones only



No problem.  Yeah, it would be such a letdown if they decided to block usage of the SXFI Amp.  Interesting that you mention the Air, though.  I wonder how that would work with it?  The Air allows for wired USB connection to a PC for multichannel sound, so I suspect you'd hook it up to the SXFI TV box the same way.  In order to use Air wirelessly, though, I'm guessing you'd need your own USB bluetooth transmitter.  Obviously then you're limited to 2 channel audio, but I suppose if you are preferring the convenience of wireless over full surround sound in that instance, it'd be better than nothing.


----------



## mindbomb

AppleheadMay said:


> Ok, so the onboard Realtek probably won't allow surround applied to its 7.1 analog be routed to the digital output.
> (it has an option called "Virtual Surround encodes surround audio for transfer as stereo output to receiver", not sure what it does).
> https://www.gigabyte.com/mb/aorus/audio



That virtual surround setting is meant to be used with a dolby pro logic II decoder. Don't worry about it.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 6, 2020)

Vader2k said:


> No problem.  Yeah, it would be such a letdown if they decided to block usage of the SXFI Amp.  Interesting that you mention the Air, though.  I wonder how that would work with it?  The Air allows for wired USB connection to a PC for multichannel sound, so I suspect you'd hook it up to the SXFI TV box the same way.  In order to use Air wirelessly, though, I'm guessing you'd need your own USB bluetooth transmitter.  Obviously then you're limited to 2 channel audio, but I suppose if you are preferring the convenience of wireless over full surround sound in that instance, it'd be better than nothing.


Yeah I assumed that they might make it compatible via wired USB.  Not of any personal relevance as I just have the AMP and the rather troubled X3.



AppleheadMay said:


> Ok, so the onboard Realtek probably won't allow surround applied to its 7.1 analog be routed to the digital output.
> (it has an option called "Virtual Surround encodes surround audio for transfer as stereo output to receiver", not sure what it does).
> https://www.gigabyte.com/mb/aorus/audio
> 
> ...


No point in using Waves NX with Hesuvi, that would be double binauralising. 
Hesuvi has a bootleg Waves profile though. I don’t think it’s as good as the real thing and besides it lacks head tracking.

You might get some benefit out of Equaliser APO headphone auto-EQ for Waves though, just as you might with any VSS that doesn’t already incorporate headphone-specific compensation.

SB AE5/9, no. It would likely face the same problem I already mentioned about setting default windows audio device and lack of 7.1 config.


----------



## AppleheadMay

SierraMadre said:


> No point in using Waves NX with Hesuvi, that would be double binauralising.
> Hesuvi has a bootleg Waves profile though. I don’t think it’s as good as the real thing and besides it lacks head tracking.
> You might get some benefit out of Equaliser APO headphone auto-EQ for Waves though, just as you might with any VSS that doesn’t already incorporate headphone-specific compensation.
> SB AE5/9, no. It would likely face the same problem I already mentioned about setting default windows audio device and lack of 7.1 config.



Thanks, the G6 will definately be a keeper then even if it only were for the opticcal out, sure there might be more I will like.
Yep, head tracking. I remember you made some posts about that, just searched for them, will read them a nit later. 
I'll do a search about your posts for WavesNX and Hesuvi as well as well as a genaral search in this thread for OOYH but I think that's only 2 channel.
In any case I'll have some nice reading material tonight. This thread is a goldmine of info!


----------



## ronfifer (Feb 6, 2020)

Spoiler: Youtube Video








Can you guys kindly test your favorite headphone for immersive single player gaming on this short youtube clip? I need to know which headphone has more *Rumble* *& Texture to the bass when I shoot the cannon* and more *Weight* *to the air* when I do melee strike (whoosh whoosh effect). I have 4 open-back cans for competitive gaming, not fun and bass-anemic, and one closed-back Steelseries Arctis 7 which gives me the rumble and heavy, meaty whoosh whoosh when i do melee strikes, but it sucks in all other sound departments. I am craving a closed-back or semi-closed headphone for immersive gaming whose sound has *RUMBLE*, *Texture*, *Resolution*, *& Relatively Expansive Soundstage *strictly for single-player games. No Muddiness, clear separation when the scene gets congested with action.

Here's my shortlist so far, if you have any 2 of them, please do test the youtube video above for me and tell me which one ticks the boxes for you. If you believe any of those don't tick the boxes please help me eliminate them from my list.

- Argon MK3
- Fostex TH-900
- Audioquest Nighthawk
- Sony Z1R
- Sony Z7
- DT177X Go
- Your Favorite (No Mobius lol!)

Thank you very much!


----------



## omegaorgun

Wait what is this thread?


ronfifer said:


> Spoiler: Youtube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Argons are great but mine is a bit different being a MK2 with MK3 baffles and currently running suedes.

I have the Z7M2 but since I upgraded the pads it's almost endgame level. I haven't gamed on it yet but even with music it's very immersive. The pads basically made the top end smoother and added soundstage in comparison to being a THX00 on steroids.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Gonna have to talk to Creative about that SXFI planar headphone.

I wonder if they have an OEM, or if it's their own design.

Either way, DIS GON B GUD


----------



## AppleheadMay

Little question about the SXFI amp.

I have an iPhone. 
I tried to connect directly with a USB-C to Lightning cable but that doesn't work.
I see it should work with Lightning to USB Camera Adapter from Apple which I'll have by tonight.
I also see I will be able to make a profile from my ears and head in the App so that's no problem either.

But:
- Will I be able to upload the profile to the amp from the iPhone with the camera adapter?
- Will I be able to do a firmware update?


----------



## AppleheadMay

AppleheadMay said:


> Little question about the SXFI amp.
> 
> I have an iPhone.
> I tried to connect directly with a USB-C to Lightning cable but that doesn't work.
> ...



Nevermind, found the answer.
Had to go buy a camera adapter to be able to connect it to iPhone and then go borrow an android tablet to upload the personalization to the device nad update the firmware. Pretty lame.

I hope the headphone isn't saved in that file as well, else I'd have to go borrow an Android device each time I want to switch headphones.


----------



## Got the Shakes

AppleheadMay said:


> Nevermind, found the answer.
> Had to go buy a camera adapter to be able to connect it to iPhone and then go borrow an android tablet to upload the personalization to the device nad update the firmware. Pretty lame.
> 
> I hope the headphone isn't saved in that file as well, else I'd have to go borrow an Android device each time I want to switch headphones.



I apologize if you answered this as I didn’t go back through the thread, but do you have a PC? You can upload personalization files from PC to the amp if you do.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Got the Shakes said:


> I apologize if you answered this as I didn’t go back through the thread, but do you have a PC? You can upload personalization files from PC to the amp if you do.



You can? Oh, that's totally not clear from their support FAQs.
Anyway, great, thanks!
I do wonder though if you have toi re-upload files when you choose new headphones. That's another ting that wasn't clear.

I have a PC but I'll only have time to test the amp from Sunday on, just wanted to update the firmware and load the personalisation.
Can you also update the firmware from a PC?


----------



## Got the Shakes (Feb 7, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> You can? Oh, that's totally not clear from their support FAQs.
> Anyway, great, thanks!
> I do wonder though if you have toi re-upload files when you choose new headphones. That's another ting that wasn't clear.
> 
> ...



You can upgrade the firmware from PC too. There are two optionsfor installing the Sxfi PC client. From Creative’s website directly or from the Windows 10 store. I’ve found the software from Creative directly to be less buggy than the Windows 10 app from the W10 Store. Once you connect the Amp to your PC you’ll be able to open the software and download any personalization that you’ve created as well as check for firmware updates for the Amp itself (and install them if you aren’t up to date).

You also shouldn’t have to reupload anything when choosing new headphones. It should EQ your head map to any headphone you choose without you needing to reupload anything.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Got the Shakes said:


> You can upgrade the firmware from PC too. There are two optionsfor installing the Sxfi PC client. From Creative’s website directly or from the Windows 10 store. I’ve found the software from Creative directly to be less buggy than the Windows 10 app from the W10 Store. Once you connect the Amp to your PC you’ll be able to open the software and download any personalization that you’ve created as well as check for firmware updates for the Amp itself (and install them if you aren’t up to date).
> 
> You also shouldn’t have to reupload anything when choosing new headphones. It should EQ your head map to any headphone you choose without you needing to reupload anything.



Thanks a lot for the info and tips, none of that is in the manual or FAQ.
I didn’t try on the PC because I was waiting until Sunday when I have a few days time to test a bunch of new things out: SXFI Amp, G6, Boom 3D, Waves NX, OOYH and compare with the GSX 1000 I was already using as well as Atmos for Headphones and DTSX. I’ll throw my receiver via HDMI in the mix as well for the software solutions, it works fine with Atmos for headphones.


----------



## Azurik

Shame creative stuff doesn’t work well with Apple. The sxfi amp needs an android device and the G6 a windows machine as the creative suite is not available on Mac OS last time I checked.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I see both apps for the SXFI that are available for Windows are available in the Mac App store as well.
Not sure if you can update firmware and upload personalisation with them like you can with Windows.
Don't go by the info in the App store though, it says the same as on the Windows store and is outdated.


----------



## trector (Feb 8, 2020)

helo i am interesting in  some models of headphones and i would  like to tell me which  from all these  are better  for  gaming and  edm music  such as  trance, house, psy  trance and etc..

The models which i have  found  are..


Massdrop x HiFiMAN Edition X
Audeze Mobius
HiFiMAN Ananda
*Audeze LCD-GX*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2020)

The Edition XX would definitely suit you if you can get one. The Ananda is slightly less fun, slight more refined. Both are better than the Mobius, though the Mobius is great in its price range.

But yeah, I think the Edition XX is the one.


----------



## trector (Feb 8, 2020)

the    HiFiMAN Edition X is  the best  for  trance, house, psy trance and etc??  and  also in  gaming    the HiFiMAN Edition X   are  very good?

i am, concerning for  the  EDM part and  for  the  gaming part
because i am  hearing a lot  trance, house ,,jungle,, and mosty  i am hearing  psy  trance   and   techno elements/../ and progresive elements ..

for  this i am asking if  the  HiFiMAN Edition  worth  for  EDM and  gaming Part.

is it   worth  to  buy  the  HiFiMAN Edition   for EDM and gaming Part. ??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2020)

You sound like someone else. I gave you my answer. JUST GET IT IF YOU CAN. This is why I avoid answering questions like this normally. Because keep KEEP ASKING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER, and don't read the reviews.


----------



## trector

i will buy  the HiFiMAN Edition

thanks  for the  help.//.


----------



## ronfifer

The 3.5mm line out socket in my steelseries dac is very small and i have to force non-steelseries headphones in and keep wiggling the plug until it catches full signal. Is there some kind of an adapter or extender i can buy to standardize the process. It's 3.5mm male to 3.5mm female.


----------



## IrisYuki

Is there any good setup headphone that included a mic? Because I don't want to buy a separate mic at all and most audiophile headphone doesn't have mic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2020)

IrisYuki said:


> Is there any good setup headphone that included a mic? Because I don't want to buy a separate mic at all and most audiophile headphone doesn't have mic


There's a couple on the review page... like these...

Beyerdynamic MMX300
Sennheiser Game One
Audeze LCD-GX

Don't ask which is better. Please read the reviews and get the one you think sounds best for you.


----------



## IrisYuki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> There's a couple on the review page... like these...
> 
> Beyerdynamic MMX300
> Sennheiser Game One
> ...


Thanks a  lot


----------



## deadchip12 (Feb 9, 2020)

I own a creative g6 dac/amp and 2 headphones: sony playstation platinum headset (closed) and phillips fidelio x2hr (open). With the platinum, volume at 16 is loud enough, but with the x2hr I need to increase the volume to over 20 to reach the same level of loudness, and still it doesn’t feel as visceral. This is tested in a pretty quiet room. Is it because of closed back vs open back? Both headphones seem to have the same impedance of around 30 ohm (not sure about sensitivity though). I’m surprised that the platinum actually has a really good stereo soundstage and clarity for a closed back gaming headset. I think the only thing the x2hr does better than the platinum is the sound is more airy with no echo and feels more natural.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 9, 2020)

Impedance =/= sensitivity.

You can have 32 ohm headphone that needs much more volume than a 600ohm and vice versa.

Headsets tend to be very sensitive, because they need to be about to be plugged in to regular things like laptops that don't have a lot of power.

So for your two headphones, it's mainly because the Platinum is more sensitive. Closed vs Open can also be a factor due to people wanting to drown out external noises with open backed headphones, where you won't need to with closed back.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 9, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I own a creative g6 dac/amp and 2 headphones: sony playstation platinum headset (closed) and phillips fidelio x2hr (open). With the platinum, volume at 16 is loud enough, but with the x2hr I need to increase the volume to over 20 to reach the same level of loudness, and still it doesn’t feel as visceral. This is tested in a pretty quiet room. Is it because of closed back vs open back? Both headphones seem to have the same impedance of around 30 ohm (not sure about sensitivity though). I’m surprised that the platinum actually has a really good stereo soundstage and clarity for a closed back gaming headset. I think the only thing the x2hr does better than the platinum is the sound is more airy with no echo and feels more natural.



Greatly generalized and simplified you can say that 2 specs are important for seeing how hard a headphone will be to drive: sensitivity and impedance.
But your Fidelio isn't hard to drive at all, 100db at 30 Ohm is pretty easy to drive, the Sony is just a little easier to drive still so it's normal you need to give the Fidelio a bit more volume.

If you would like to drive most headphones louder, better, properly, with more headroom, more visceral like you say without generating much distortion (which a G6 does do because the amp actually isn't that powerful, it just has high gain) and you are willing to invest a little (or better said you would like to get a full blown head-fi system for a real bargain price) then get a Schiit stack (Magni + Modi) either used or new. You connect the G6 via optical to the Modi.
Your Sony doesn't need it at all, your Fidelios will benefit from it (more visceral and detailed) and if you get cans like an AKG- K7XX (pretty hard to drive properly) which are what you could call "high-end" for gaming you will be able to drive them easily.
Your system will improve for gaming, music and movies.

I had a Schiit stack in the past (Magni 3/Loki) and will have a new one next week (Magni Heresy/Modi3/Loki).

On top of that, it looks almost as good as Lara Croft herself!  









View attachment Magni Heresy-009-s.jpg


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> Spoiler: Youtube Video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My DT-1990 pwnz that video clip, so I'm sure the DT-177X Go will not disappoint


----------



## ronfifer

Chastity said:


> My DT-1990 pwnz that video clip, so I'm sure the DT-177X Go will not disappoint



Thank you so much for testing!! Did you compare the DT1990 with another headphone before concluding it pwnz?


----------



## Chastity (Feb 9, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Thank you so much for testing!! Did you compare the DT1990 with another headphone before concluding it pwnz?


I only have the HD-580 and the MDR-SA5000 to compare with, and I already know how these sound, having used them over 15 years.    The DT-1990 are gaming overkill, so you get those dynamics and visceral tonality you are looking for.  The DT-1770/177X have the same Tesla v2 drivers, just in a closed back.

On the G6, I use a 12% Surround (to properly create HRTF positional cues) and Crystalizer 23% (dynamic range enhancement/restoration, and to offset the Asgard 3 dynamics signature).


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 9, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I own a creative g6 dac/amp and 2 headphones: sony playstation platinum headset (closed) and phillips fidelio x2hr (open). With the platinum, volume at 16 is loud enough, but with the x2hr I need to increase the volume to over 20 to reach the same level of loudness, and still it doesn’t feel as visceral. This is tested in a pretty quiet room. Is it because of closed back vs open back? Both headphones seem to have the same impedance of around 30 ohm (not sure about sensitivity though). I’m surprised that the platinum actually has a really good stereo soundstage and clarity for a closed back gaming headset. I think the only thing the x2hr does better than the platinum is the sound is more airy with no echo and feels more natural.


This may just be more a case of you having an individual preference for the sound signature of the Platinums than it is with choice of dac/amp. I own the G6 and both the X2s and Platinums too and while I am a fan of pairing the latter with PlayStation for wireless surround, horses for courses aside, I wouldn’t rate their analogue sound out of the G6 as anywhere near as good as the X2s.

In any case, the Fidelio X2s are so easy to drive that they’re not going to scale a huge amount beyond the G6 and if you get to the point where volume vs audible distortion is of concern for the G6/X2 pairing, then chances are you’d either be compensating for hearing damage, and/or in the process of causing it.

The X2s do sound better on my Massdrop THX and the budget but well regarded Loxjie P20 than on the G6, but not by that much. Same with the K7XX which although scaling more beyond the G6 than the X2s, still do not do so by enough to be worth writing home about IMO. More often than not I stick with the G6 by itself for the convenience and reserve the THX and P20 for the HD800S.

That’s not to say it wouldn’t be worth trying an amp with more juice but I wouldn’t expect miracles if you’re already unhappy with the X2s, and I would question the addition of another DAC like the Modi if the intention is to use the G6 as a VSS pre-dac and thus have 3 audio devices in the chain rather than just to replace it as sole DAC in a 2 audio device chain.

It’s not as if the G6’s Dac chip is particularly lacking and any benefits from a better DAC would be marginal at best with the X2s. Rather than creating a modi/magni stack I’d recommend just try out the Magni by itself first or an all-in-one like the Hel for more versatility. The Hel would be cheaper than the stack and sound just as good as the stack, maybe even more so and you could still feed it VSS to amp from the G6 via the G6’s line-out to Hel’s analogue line-in.


----------



## deadchip12 (Feb 9, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> This may just be more a case of you having an individual preference for the sound signature of the Platinums than it is with choice of dac/amp. I own the G6 and both the X2s and Platinums too and while I am a fan of pairing the latter with PlayStation for wireless surround, horses for courses aside, I wouldn’t rate their analogue sound out of the G6 as anywhere near as good as the X2s.
> 
> In any case, the Fidelio X2s are so easy to drive that they’re not going to scale a huge amount beyond the G6 and if you get to the point where volume vs audible distortion is of concern for the G6/X2 pairing, then chances are you’d either be compensating for hearing damage, and/or in the process of causing it.
> 
> ...


I really like the x2hr’s sound signature; very smooth, realistics and pleasing to the ears. I just think that the platinum sounds more powerful maybe, either because it’s closed back so it has more sub bass, or because it’s easier to drive so it sounds louder at the same vol level, or my mind is playing trick idk. I like both headphones honestly.

I definitely don’t want to buy another dac/amp. In the past I have tried the fx audio dac x6, fiio e10, and even the topping dx3 pro. My experience has been underwhelming. None sounds better than my 8-year-old dolby usb sound card (the x6 has very audible static noise, the e10 somehow reduces the x2hr’s soundstage considerably and the dx3 pro lowers the bass). Therefore, I stop believing in the benefit of more expensive dac amp especially with a rather easy to drive headphones like the x2hr. I just recently bought the g6 since it’s on sale, that dolby usb sound card was already too old and I wanted another 7.1 dac amp to have vss in games that don’t support dolby atmos for headphone. Power is not an issue as 30/100 low gain on the x2hr is already too loud for my ears (I usually keep it at around 20, of course depending on the game and movie, some movies just have very quiet audio). I don’t hear any distortion, only some audio roll off in busy scenes but I think it’s because of the in-game sound engine, not the dac amp.


----------



## SierraMadre

deadchip12 said:


> I really like the x2hr’s sound signature; very smooth, realistics and pleasing to the ears. I just think that the platinum sounds more powerful maybe, either because it’s closed back so it has more sub bass, or because it’s easier to drive so it sounds louder at the same vol level, or my mind is playing trick idk. I like both headphones honestly.
> 
> I definitely don’t want to buy another dac/amp. In the past I have tried the fx audio dac x6, fiio e10, and even the topping dx3 pro. My experience has been underwhelming. None sounds better than my 8-year-old dolby usb sound card (the x6 has very audible static noise, the e10 somehow reduces the x2hr’s soundstage considerably and the dx3 pro lowers the bass). Therefore, I stop believing in the benefit of more expensive dac amp especially with a rather easy to drive headphones like the x2hr. I just recently bought the g6 since it’s on sale, that dolby usb sound card was already too old and I wanted another 7.1 dac amp to have vss in games that don’t support dolby atmos for headphone. Power is not an issue as 30/100 low gain on the x2hr is already too loud for my ears (I usually keep it at around 20, of course depending on the game and movie, some movies just have very quiet audio). I don’t hear any distortion, only some audio roll off in busy scenes but I think it’s because of the in-game sound engine, not the dac amp.


Fair enough. Perhaps try EQ or some judicious application in moderation of SBX’s bass boost feature then? You could also try messing with the crossover (the part in the SB Connect control panel where you choose desktop, bookshelf, tower or custom). Last time I tried it, it affected not only the line-out speaker profile but also the headphone profile.


----------



## deadchip12

Does anyone know why whenever I enable Dolby Atmos for Headphone then after using turn it off, the volume becomes much quieter?


----------



## Chastity

deadchip12 said:


> Does anyone know why whenever I enable Dolby Atmos for Headphone then after using turn it off, the volume becomes much quieter?


Because the app reset your Windows Audio settings to some lame default.  On my G6, it resets it to 32/48 stereo.


----------



## deadchip12

Chastity said:


> Because the app reset your Windows Audio settings to some lame default.  On my G6, it resets it to 32/48 stereo.


I don’t see how this affects volume? And even when I go to sound settings and bring it back to 32/96 7.1 surround on my g6, the volume is still lower than when dolby atmos is enabled


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Is it that important? Probably just some minor bug. Wouldn't be the first. And certainly not the last.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Is it that important? Probably just some minor bug. Wouldn't be the first. And certainly not the last.


It is not a bug. It has always been like that. Do you notice the same thing at your end?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not really. I'm constantly adjusting volume, so it wouldn't bother me.


----------



## kobikgames

Because I want console capability too (has to be USB, ps4 slim) I will be getting the Creative G6 and wanted to get the AKG K612. Can the G6 easily drive the 612 or would the 702 be better ?


----------



## deadchip12 (Feb 11, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Not really. I'm constantly adjusting volume, so it wouldn't bother me.


Found the culprit. Inside my dolby access app, the profile is set to “Movie” instead of “Gaming”, and for whatever reason, the volume in “Movie” profile is significantly higher than “Gaming” one. Switching back to Gaming fixes it.

Edit: The reason “Movie” mode has higher volume than “Gaming” mode is because of volume leveler, which is another switch inside dolby access app.


----------



## Evshrug

kobikgames said:


> Because I want console capability too (has to be USB, ps4 slim) I will be getting the Creative G6 and wanted to get the AKG K612. Can the G6 easily drive the 612 or would the 702 be better ?


If you're not using optical, you might as well save money and just get the G5... optical is required to send Dolby to the G6.
Other than the Dolby decoding over optical, both Creative models are identical, and will drive a K612 just fine.

FYI, PS4 only sends surround signals over Optical or HDMI. If a game has it's own binaural headphone processing mode built-in (like Naughty Dog games, some DICE games, Overwatch), then the "surround" processing is already done and you'd be able to hear it over USB. I'm hoping the next generation of consoles and accessory devices remedy this, but until then I would rather have an original PS4 or PS4 pro instead of the PS4 Slim specifically because of the optical port. I'm not trying to be a downer... just don't want you to be surprised.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 11, 2020)

Got a care package today with Audeze's cryo pads for the Mobius. Instantly reminded why I liked the Mobius so much. It's just a damn good sounding headphone. After about 30 minutes, the cryo pads feel great, though I never had a real problem with the stock pads either. This might be a hard comparison. The Mobius has one of the very best stock faux leather pads I've felt, which is saying a lot for someone like me that doesn't like faux leather pads in general. The cryo pads are also a winner, so really, I dunno how I'm gonna do this, lol.

If and when I do, I will be updating the Mobius review with statements o nthe cryo pads and how the hold up to the stock pads, and whether I feel anything sounds different.


ALso received a final version of the LCD-1 with 'fixed' cable inputs, which were a bit loose and would disconnect way too easily on the review unit. I haven't taken them out yet, so they too will get a sort of updated review.

edit: LCD-1 cable entry connection is definitely way better than review version.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Received my LCD-GX today, have about 2 hours listening time with music on them now. No movies or games yet.
Man, this thing can easily double as a “high-end” headphone, I really like the sound signature with music, not as dark as the LCD-3 and LCD-XC I knew.

I think I will replace those pleather pads with real leather ones though and get me a longer cotton sleeved cabled, not so fond of that plastic braided one and it’s too short anyway.
But those are little annoyances that can be solved, the sound is what is important and I really like it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 11, 2020)

Man it's amazing how one's listening mood can improve when you're not worried about the cable slipping off. The LCD-1 is DEFINITELY one of the top the neutral headphones I'd buy at the price range. Massively underrated IMHO.

At $400, it's definitely the only headphone I can think of I'd get at that range. As nice as the Mobius and Panda are, the LCD-1 is... yeah, it's the one. Granted, both the other two are much more versatile, but for sound, the LCD-1... oh yeah.



AppleheadMay said:


> Received my LCD-GX today, have about 2 hours listening time with music on them now. No movies or games yet.
> Man, this thing can easily double as a “high-end” headphone, I really like the sound signature with music, not as dark as the LCD-3 and LCD-XC I knew.
> 
> I think I will replace those pleather pads with real leather ones though and get me a longer cotton sleeved cabled, not so fond of that plastic braided one and it’s too short anyway.
> But those are little annoyances that can be solved, the sound is what is important and I really like it.


Man, if I had the GX, first thing I'd buy myself would be the suede pads from Dekoni. Just as isolating as the leather/pleather, but with the fabric comfort I'd want. I wish Audeze would've let me keep them long enough to test those pads out too. Though of course, I'd have to ask Dekoni too. LOL.



AppleheadMay said:


> Received my LCD-GX today, have about 2 hours listening time with music on them now. No movies or games yet.
> Man, this thing can easily double as a “high-end” headphone, I really like the sound signature with music, not as dark as the LCD-3 and LCD-XC I knew.
> 
> I think I will replace those pleather pads with real leather ones though and get me a longer cotton sleeved cabled, not so fond of that plastic braided one and it’s too short anyway.
> But those are little annoyances that can be solved, the sound is what is important and I really like it.




Also, out of all the headphones I'd want... the Audeze GX + Dekoni suede pads is actually my number 1 want atm.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 11, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Also, out of all the headphones I'd want... the Audeze GX + Dekoni suede pads is actually my number 1 want atm.



LCD-XG vs. LCD-1? Really interested in your opinions as you seem to like it better than the Panda.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 11, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> LCD-X vs. LCD-1? Really interested in your opinions as you seem to like it better than the Panda.


I haven't heard the LCD-X. But one thing keeps me from being like "yeah, i'd definitely go for it". It's the weight. The LCD-X is one big bertha. I think the GX is as low as about as much as I'd want in terms of weight, today.

The LCD-1 is suuuuuuper light. Like really, it's quite noticeable. That really helps long term comfort.

As for LCD-1 vs GX... ehh... it's very different. I think the LCD-1 falls outside what I'd associate with the LCD sound, and feels like a reference headphone in terms of how it produces sound. The LCD-GX as well as the LCD-2 and Mobius, share a trait that feel very Audeze, and is special in its own way. Not necessarily better, just different. So I can definitely say that if you want to experience AUDEZE, I'd get the Mobius or GX. But in terms of accuracy, I think the LCD-1 wins. It just sounds like its suuuuuper accurate,  while the others are more fun, and different, and unique.

As for Panda vs LCD-1, the LCD-1 sounds clearer, is open backed so the soundstaging is better, and sounds higher fidelity to my ears. It may come down to the fact it's open vs closed, and the Panda having a bit of bass bloom which the LCD-1 does not suffer from. Really, they're both excellent, but different enough where its not a fair comparison. Open vs closed is a very bad comparison point to begin with.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard the LCD-X. But one thing keeps me from being like "yeah, i'd definitely go for it". It's the weight. The LCD-X is one big bertha. I think the GX is as low as about as much as I'd want in terms of weight, today.
> 
> The LCD-1 is suuuuuuper light. Like really, it's quite noticeable. That really helps long term comfort.
> 
> ...



Sorry, I meant GX of course, I just edited my typo.
Thanks for your impressions. You nearly made me cancel the Panda with your previous post but you just reminded me that it's closed. 
And bluetooth is handy as well although I don't mind a cable. But I needed a closed one in that category.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 11, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Sorry, I meant GX of course, I just edited my typo.
> Thanks for your impressions. You nearly made me cancel the Panda with your previous post but you just reminded me that it's closed.
> And bluetooth is handy as well although I don't mind a cable. But I needed a closed one in that category.


Certainly. I should point out that I'm not really someone in need of a closed headphone. If I was... I would absolutely steer towards something like the Panda. It's fantastic. Kills at least two birds with one stone. Wired and bluetooth. Though it needs to be said the Mobius is also fantastic. Just... I'd say the Panda edges it out for me due to it being passive in wired mode, while the Mobius always needs to be on, even while wired. That makes the Panda just a bit more usable for me specifically, though it lacks a lot of the other features that the Mobius has like headtracking, vss, eq presets, etc. The Mobius is more fully featured, for sure, and if you weren't worried about wired connectioin to use with your own gear, the Mobius is hard to pass up.

Raw Sq-wise, the Panda's sound quality is better. But the Mobius has that Audeze sound I really like. Really, it's a game of apples vs oranges.


----------



## ph0bia

Hey guys, long time lurker here. I've got a question, maybe someone could help me with.

I just bought a pair of Sendy Aivas (which I'm loving) and I've also got some Fidelio X2s. I'm using a Sound Blaster G6 to get some good VSS while gaming, and for now I'm plugging the headphones straight into the G6, which has sufficient power. In your opinion, would I benefit from adding an amp to the setup (to the G6 line out)? I read that planars like the Aiva sound better when paired with an amp with increased voltages. 

If you think that it would be worth it, which amp would you recommend? I saw another poster suggesting that the Loxjie P20 pairs well with the Aiva, but I was also looking at a few others (Schiit Magni, JDS Labs Atom, SMSL SP200).

Thanks!


----------



## kobikgames

Evshrug said:


> If you're not using optical, you might as well save money and just get the G5... optical is required to send Dolby to the G6.
> Other than the Dolby decoding over optical, both Creative models are identical, and will drive a K612 just fine.
> 
> FYI, PS4 only sends surround signals over Optical or HDMI. If a game has it's own binaural headphone processing mode built-in (like Naughty Dog games, some DICE games, Overwatch), then the "surround" processing is already done and you'd be able to hear it over USB. I'm hoping the next generation of consoles and accessory devices remedy this, but until then I would rather have an original PS4 or PS4 pro instead of the PS4 Slim specifically because of the optical port. I'm not trying to be a downer... just don't want you to be surprised.



Thanks for the comment.

I honestly do not really care much for surround sound, aslong I can drive the headphones + a mic and have good audio quality like that. I have the HyperX cloud II at the moment and only use them in stereo anyway.


Gotta ask tho: Doesn't the G6 have a much much better DAC and AMP? Wouldn't that be a better fit for very fierce headphones like the AKG-line up?


----------



## Evshrug

kobikgames said:


> Thanks for the comment.
> I honestly do not really care much for surround sound, aslong I can drive the headphones + a mic and have good audio quality like that. I have the HyperX cloud II at the moment and only use them in stereo anyway.
> 
> Gotta ask tho: Doesn't the G6 have a much much better DAC and AMP? Wouldn't that be a better fit for very fierce headphones like the AKG-line up?


Now you've got me questioning myself... the Soundblaster E5, G5, and G6 all share the same enclosure, and the E5 and G5 had the same DAC and amp inside (but the E5 had a battery, bluetooth, and a second headphone output instead of the mic input on the "front"), but it's possible the G6 has a different DAC and amp. The G6 is one I've never tried in person, but those on this thread have made several positive posts about it. If it is better or not, I will say that even the G5 was good enough for the AKG K612 and K712, and I was quite pleased with the G5 + Sennheiser PC37X for a pretty "smooth" signal chain for streaming. The G6 could only be the same or better.

To this day, I don't know why Creative didn't work to integrate USB for chat with the Sound Blaster X7 and PS4 in the way that they did for the G5 and G6, but at least it readied me for my current setup... I didn't realize how good the PS4 Camera's mic was (at desktop distance) until I tried it with the X7, so now that I have the Smyth Realiser A16 (which gets 7.1 from HDMI), I use the camera again as my mic.

If you say you don't care much for surround... I believe you, but I also believe strongly that you haven't heard good binaural audio (headphone surround) yet. Regular stereo is like everything is placed on a 1 dimensional line between your ears "inside your head," which is different from how we are used to hearing sounds in real life placed around us. 7.1 Surround speakers is more realistic, because instead of a 1D line going through your head, you can perceive sounds to come from essentially a 2D "ring" around and out from you, like real life, except speakers are more expensive than headphones to get the same quality and detail, and they have to be placed in a room with ideal acoustics to "disappear" and sound "transparent" to a realistic scene. Dolby Atmos and DTS-X are better, but IMO Binaural audio has the potential to be the ultimate. Imagine, instead of 7 or 12 spots, sound could seem to emanate from any direction, including above and below, and you don't have to worry about room acoustics or size because the processing (DSP) can recreate the perfect timbre of what a sound _sounds_ like by the time it is reaches your ear from inside a room our outside in the open. Everything sounds more natural because it sounds the way we are used to hearing in real life, except it is able to transport us to these fantasies (games, movies, concerts).

Binaural audio is the result of taking 5.1, 7.1, "object oriented" surround, and using headphone virtual surround sound processing on it, or it's the result of using specially designed binaural or VR microphones to record something "live." The more dimensional info you feed it, the better and more realistic.

But if all you want is gaming with 1D stereo, then you've got tons of options. Creative E5, G5, G6 are all good options. So is the FiiO E10k, Schiit Hel, and many of their other DAC/amps. Most DAC/Amps that don't require a driver install work well with the PS4... I can't tell you why the Sony ZX300A isn't recognized by the Sony PS4, but I assume it's a driver issue


----------



## Helvetica bold (Feb 12, 2020)

Im using Hyper Cloud X headphones with my Xbox One X. What's a good amp that will give me a little oomph but still be able to use voice chat? When playing The Division 2 with a buddy the audio is low. Would the new Fulla 3 be a good option?


----------



## Chastity

Evshrug said:


> Now you've got me questioning myself... the Soundblaster E5, G5, and G6 all share the same enclosure, and the E5 and G5 had the same DAC and amp inside (but the E5 had a battery, bluetooth, and a second headphone output instead of the mic input on the "front"), but it's possible the G6 has a different DAC and amp. The G6 is one I've never tried in person, but those on this thread have made several positive posts about it. If it is better or not, I will say that even the G5 was good enough for the AKG K612 and K712, and I was quite pleased with the G5 + Sennheiser PC37X for a pretty "smooth" signal chain for streaming. The G6 could only be the same or better.


The G6 has the CM43131 DAC (130dB part), and their Xamp design for the amplifier, aka a discrete channel amp, like the AE-5.


----------



## buylow

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Man, if I had the GX, first thing I'd buy myself would be the suede pads from Dekoni



I bought the GX in January as a bit of an impulse. I've only ever used velour pads on my other headphones and the pleather on the GX is sadly not to my taste. I didn't really think too much about changing the pads, so now you have me thinking!!!!! Hmmm... Suede or velour I wonder.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

buylow said:


> I bought the GX in January as a bit of an impulse. I've only ever used velour pads on my other headphones and the pleather on the GX is sadly not to my taste. I didn't really think too much about changing the pads, so now you have me thinking!!!!! Hmmm... Suede or velour I wonder.


I'd go for Suede or Hybrid because all velour is not good for headphones that use pads that seal. LCD headphones use pads that don't let sound escape through the pads, so yeah, don't get velour. The suede they use still has memory foam and should work like stock pads that seal. Hybrids are basically pleather but the area that touched the skin is velour, so that is worth looking into as well.


----------



## buylow

Thankyou for the feedback. I think I will look into the suede.


----------



## Evshrug

buylow said:


> Thankyou for the feedback. I think I will look into the suede.


Bonus, the Suede are by far the softest material Dekoni uses.


----------



## SierraMadre

Evshrug said:


> *What IS double amping?*
> Many people don’t realize this, but the Analog section of a Digital to Analog Converter (*DAC*) actually is an amplifier of sorts, with a fixed output setting. This is why, for example, upgrading the OpAmps in a Creative Sound Blaster X7 benefits the headphone output AND the RCA “Line Out” on the back.
> 
> So, technically, any time you connect a stand-alone amp to a stand-alone DAC, you’re “double amping,” and you’re only “hurting” the sound fidelity if your amp is noticeably worse than the Analog section of the DAC in some way... for example, if the amp has a potentiometer to control and lower the volume from max.
> ...


Thanks for chiming in on this.

I’d appreciate your insight on the following questions:

1. Aside from deterioration of fidelity (whether noticeable or not) is there any risk to the headphones from double amping in this manner? If so, what precautions should be taken?

2. If I were to double amp my phones from SXFI AMP out to one of my discrete amps (Massdrop THX or Loxjie P20), what would be the correct method of volume control? Based on my limited understanding of pre-ampimg,  I assume it would be to fix the volume of the endpoint discrete amp to max and adjust/control the volume of the SXFI AMP feeding it?

Many thanks


----------



## Zerufos (Feb 16, 2020)

Looking for an "endgame" closed-back headphone that will strictly be used for competitive gaming. Really looking for great imaging and no muddying of sound when a ton of blasts and explosions are happening.

Which would be considered the best? Currently looking at these:

A2000z
Beyer T5P
Ether C Flow 1.1
Ether CX
Aeon 2 C
NDH20
Focal Elegia


----------



## Lurkeyyy

Hello there!

I'm looking on either DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm or the ATH AD900X, i'll be using them mainly for FPS games (CS:GO, COD : MW, Apex Legends, R6) and open world games (RDR 2, Kingdom Comes Deliverance)(so i need immersion as well) and music (rock, pop, punk, folk). Will be using them with a FiiO K3. 

I'm looking for some bass but i'm no bassheads ( i just don't want it to sound dull when i switch up to other genres). Right now i'm kinda leaning towards the AD900X but have i'm having second thoughts as there are many reviews going both ways. 

I want to know if the AD900X sounds great when playing open world games? Because all i've ever read about the reviews are on FPS games, but i want to know how it sounds casually. (One of the reasons i'm considering the AD900X is it is more well rounded than the AD700X and have a better positional cues than the DT 990)

Anyhow, Thanks!


----------



## Zerufos

Lurkeyyy said:


> I want to know if the AD900X sounds great when playing open world games? Because all i've ever read about the reviews are on FPS games, but i want to know how it sounds casually. (One of the reasons i'm considering the AD900X is it is more well rounded than the AD700X and have a better positional cues than the DT 990)



I own the AD700 and AD900X. I would agree that the AD900X are slightly more "well rounded" as they have slightly more bass than the 700's. Although, I still prefered using the AD700's. I haven't heard the DT 990's but have owned the MMX300, which are based off the DT 770s, and those were the most fun, immersive headphones I've ever owned.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 17, 2020)

Lurkeyyy said:


> Hello there!
> 
> I'm looking on either DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm or the ATH AD900X, i'll be using them mainly for FPS games (CS:GO, COD : MW, Apex Legends, R6) and open world games (RDR 2, Kingdom Comes Deliverance)(so i need immersion as well) and music (rock, pop, punk, folk). Will be using them with a FiiO K3.
> 
> ...


I don’t have experience with the DT990s but do with the AD900X. It’s good for open world in that its open and airy soundstage lends itself well to ambient environmental sounds. However, you’ll probably find it a bit bass-lite without EQ or some kind of bass enhancement processing.

You might want to consider the ATH-ADG1X instead. It is Audio Technica’s gaming version of the AD900X. It has a built-in mic and sounds like it’s tuned for more bass than the AD900X. It’s definitely not what most people would class as "bassy" but it should have enough for your preferences and at 48ohms impedance, it should be much easier to drive than the 250 Ohm Beyers.

https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/96eeada29d21f735/index.html


----------



## Lurkeyyy

SierraMadre said:


> I don’t have experience with the DT990s but do with the AD900X. It’s good for open world in that its open and airy soundstage lends itself well to ambient environmental sounds. However, you’ll probably find it a bit bass-lite without EQ or some kind of bass enhancement processing.
> 
> You might want to consider the ATH-ADG1X instead. It is Audio Technica’s gaming version of the AD900X. It has a built-in mic and sounds like it’s tuned for more bass than the AD900X. It’s definitely not what most people would class as "bassy" but it should have enough for your preferences and at 48ohms impedance, it should be much easier to drive than the 250 Ohm Beyers.
> 
> https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/96eeada29d21f735/index.html


Thank you for the response, but i'm not looking into gaming headsets, i want to try something new so i'll probably go with theA AD900X


Zerufos said:


> I own the AD700 and AD900X. I would agree that the AD900X are slightly more "well rounded" as they have slightly more bass than the 700's. Although, I still prefered using the AD700's. I haven't heard the DT 990's but have owned the MMX300, which are based off the DT 770s, and those were the most fun, immersive headphones I've ever owned.


Thank you for the response, i'm leaning towards the AD900X, but i still have time till March


----------



## Velsu (Feb 17, 2020)

Lurkeyyy said:


> Hello there!
> 
> I'm looking on either DT 990 Pro 250 Ohm or the ATH AD900X, i'll be using them mainly for FPS games (CS:GO, COD : MW, Apex Legends, R6) and open world games (RDR 2, Kingdom Comes Deliverance)(so i need immersion as well) and music (rock, pop, punk, folk). Will be using them with a FiiO K3.
> 
> ...



I can talk from DT 990 250 ohm perspective (but Edition, not Pro) and i love these cans. They are the best purchase i ever did. Not my TV, no even game console but those headphones. They sound amazing when listening to music and they sound really great when gaming. I have them paired with XiFi Titanium HD soundcard and it is able to drive them so well that i listen at 40 volume or else my ears will bleed.

The DT 990 EDITION (can;t talk about pro) are so comfortable that after 10 years of usage about 12 hours a day i do not even feel that i have them on. no if i do not have them on i feel like something is missing and they have become part of my head. Also worth noting is that they are behaving extremely well during summer and high temperatures. Even if You are sweating they are still comfortable and never too hot.

I am now testing them against Audeze Mobius in games and sometimes i even prefer my old DT 990, they sound really great and personally i would give them a go.

I also tested them with Apex and they are really good, i was able to hear someones footsteps pretty clearly which saved me couple of times.

Yes i am biased


----------



## SierraMadre

Lurkeyyy said:


> Thank you for the response, but i'm not looking into gaming headsets, i want to try something new so i'll probably go with theA AD900X


No worries, your prerogative of course. . .  but you do realise the AD900X and the ADG1X are near enough the same headphones, right? The only substantial difference is that one has a mic and more of the bass you want (ADG1X) while the other does not (AD900X). 
FWIW, it’s not a powered gaming headset or anything like that. There’s no DSP dac/amp dongle, they’re simply 3.5mm jack stereo headphones with an in-line mic. The drivers are an iteration of the AD900X design according to Audio Technica themselves and the comparative spec sheets are virtually identical. Frequency response range, driver size etc. are the same. 

I can’t comment much on the Beyers, but having had experience of both the AD900X and the ADG1X, I can safely say that the ADG1X is closer to meeting your stated sonic requirements than the AD900X.
Unless it’s specifically the mic inclusion or a local pricing differential that deters you, it would be worth at least looking into them rather than writing them off due to the gaming branding.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 17, 2020)

The 6XX arrived, and holy smokes, I forgot just how damn good the 650 was/is. It might be slightly driver variance or bad memory, but these sound even clearer than the 650 I reviewed back in the day. And even now, I'd say people would be CRAZY to NOT go for the 6XX in the $200 range.

I think the 6XX/650 is one of those headphones anyone even remotely invested in audiophilia needs to get at least once before moving on to more expensive stuff. You may find that it's all you can ask for and more. I think these would be my #1 recommendation in the price bracket. More than the 880/990/K702/etc.

Back in the day it was in a tier above in price. NOW? Come on. These are a steal.

I know I'm someone who can't live with just one headphone, but man, if I had to, it'd be these. Koss clip ons aside.


----------



## Velsu

I have a quick question regarding usage of Audeze Mobius in certain games. For example in RE2 in Audio Options we can pick either Headphones, Dolby Atmos or 7.1/5.1 surround. Does it matter which option we pick and if yes, which one should we go for with gaming headphones such as Mobius? They are emulating the 7.1 3D surround, but at the same time they are headphones hmm...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since the Mobius has a VSS, you NEVER pick the headphone options in games. That's only for people not using virtual surround solutions. So you would pick 7.1/5.1 for that game. Assuming the game has Dolby Atmos, which is its own VSS, you wouldn't select that either. For you, you can turn off the 3D on the Mobius and use Dolby Atmos, or Headphone, if you want m But if you wanna use the 3D on the Mobius, DON'T select those.


----------



## Velsu

All clear, thank You


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Since the Mobius has a VSS, you NEVER pick the headphone options in games. That's only for people not using virtual surround solutions. So you would pick 7.1/5.1 for that game. Assuming the game has Dolby Atmos, which is its own VSS, you wouldn't select that either. For you, you can turn off the 3D on the Mobius and use Dolby Atmos, or Headphone, if you want m But if you wanna use the 3D on the Mobius, DON'T select those.


Atmos is its own surround sound format like 7.1, but it requires a proprietary decoder like dolby digital on consoles. I honestly have no idea how they expect you to use it in RE2 - do you need an av receiver that supports atmos? Does it work with the dolby access app?



Velsu said:


> I have a quick question regarding usage of Audeze Mobius in certain games. For example in RE2 in Audio Options we can pick either Headphones, Dolby Atmos or 7.1/5.1 surround. Does it matter which option we pick and if yes, which one should we go for with gaming headphones such as Mobius? They are emulating the 7.1 3D surround, but at the same time they are headphones hmm...



You either use 7.1 with the virtual surround sound processing on the mobius or you select the binaural option in game to get virtual surround sound processing from the game, but you can't use both.


----------



## 474194

Trying to find time to mess with Hesuvi.  It's a bit of a pain.  Just using G6 SBX 'FPS' profile in the meantime.

I run through the steps in Hesuvi, but I want to 'Test 7.1'.  All I get is 'this file type not associated with program... default programs'.  If anyone knows a fix, pls let know.

On Mac and rarely mess with Windows except to get gaming running...

Not sure if I'm suppose to associate mp4, ogg with Hesuvi or a media player.  Tried simple searching and nothing, but will further investigate.


----------



## Forty0z

Hello everyone. I just got the Sound BlasterX G6   to use with my xbox one x and my pc. 

What sound settings should i have set on my xbox one?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Forty0z said:


> Hello everyone. I just got the Sound BlasterX G6   to use with my xbox one x and my pc.
> 
> What sound settings should i have set on my xbox one?


Dolby Digital 5.1 through the optical out, bitstream if that's an option. I assume it's there. I haven't touched an XB1 other than setting one up in the living room.



mindbomb said:


> Atmos is its own surround sound format like 7.1, but it requires a proprietary decoder like dolby digital on consoles. I honestly have no idea how they expect you to use it in RE2 - do you need an av receiver that supports atmos? Does it work with the dolby access app?


I know what Atmos is, lol. Problem is that Atmos can be either for speakers or for headphone, and I'm not sure if something uses one, it automatically means it uses the other. Like in Overwatch. Has Atmos headphone. I don't know if RE2 does.


----------



## Velsu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The 6XX arrived, and holy smokes, I forgot just how damn good the 650 was/is. It might be slightly driver variance or bad memory, but these sound even clearer than the 650 I reviewed back in the day. And even now, I'd say people would be CRAZY to NOT go for the 6XX in the $200 range.
> 
> I think the 6XX/650 is one of those headphones anyone even remotely invested in audiophilia needs to get at least once before moving on to more expensive stuff. You may find that it's all you can ask for and more. I think these would be my #1 recommendation in the price bracket. More than the 880/990/K702/etc.
> 
> ...



After reading that post i decided to get myself a pair of HD6xx. Until now i was not aware they are exactly the same as HD650 but i was planning to try out Sennheiser after sticking for so long to my DT 990. Price in Europe for HD650 is around 450-500$ in my country but i found that Massdrop ships internationally and they even give out -20$ coupon on first purchase with additional -25$ deal thats currently running. That was 175$ + shipping OMG. I would be crazy to not use that opportunity.

My current setup will be DT 990, HD6xx and Audeze Mobius from now on along with Aune X7S (if it ever arrives, seller seems to be taking his sweet time) and XiFi Titanium HD. Seems like i will be covered on all fronts, Fun headphones like DT 990, high tier warm headphones like hd6xx and Mobius for gaming and some rock/metal music thanks to Planar Drives. And it's all thanks to that thread


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 18, 2020)

Velsu said:


> After reading that post i decided to get myself a pair of HD6xx. Until now i was not aware they are exactly the same as HD650 but i was planning to try out Sennheiser after sticking for so long to my DT 990. Price in Europe for HD650 is around 450-500$ in my country but i found that Massdrop ships internationally and they even give out -20$ coupon on first purchase with additional -25$ deal thats currently running. That was 175$ + shipping OMG. I would be crazy to not use that opportunity.
> 
> My current setup will be DT 990, HD6xx and Audeze Mobius from now on along with Aune X7S (if it ever arrives, seller seems to be taking his sweet time) and XiFi Titanium HD. Seems like i will be covered on all fronts, Fun headphones like DT 990, high tier warm headphones like hd6xx and Mobius for gaming and some rock/metal music thanks to Planar Drives. And it's all thanks to that thread


Yeah, even the box on the bottom says (Model: HD650) 




It's like a polar opposite to the DT990 after the bass. Midrange forward, treble smooth, whereas the 990 is laidback midrange, sharp treble. Bass is very good on both. Nice, warm, and punchy.


As always, give them exclusive listen for some days, so you can adjust to the sound characteristics. Going back and forth from 990 to the 6xx is gonna be jarring because they are so different.



They are clampy at first so I suggest stretching the metallic extensions out over some books or something. After that, they are very comfy.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, the HD 650 is an alltime classic and still among the best choices you can make. Wonderful mids, ideal transition from mids to treble, highly resolving. Bass is nothing to write home about but has a good kick nevertheless. Goes down very low in my JAR edition as well. Not holding it against this headphone that it's not "up to date". It does so many other things right which many TOTL cans have yet to achieve.


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I know what Atmos is, lol. Problem is that Atmos can be either for speakers or for headphone, and I'm not sure if something uses one, it automatically means it uses the other. Like in Overwatch. Has Atmos headphone. I don't know if RE2 does.


Atmos is surround sound analogous to dolby digital 5.1. "Atmos for headphones" is vss/hrtf/binaural analogous to dolby headphone.


----------



## Wintersun2015 (Feb 19, 2020)

Guys do you think its worth to upgrade from an old O2+DAC(2015) to something like a Schiit Magni heresy + Modi 3 just for gaming?

There is any significance upgrade in sound quality,soundstage and clarity or i'm wasting money ? Not intrested in simulated 5,1 etc,just pure quality stereo.

Using it mainly with Dt 1990,hd650 and AD700 

Thanks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 19, 2020)

Wintersun2015 said:


> Guys do you think its worth to upgrade from an old O2+DAC(2015) to something like a Schiit Magni heresy + Modi 3 just for gaming?
> 
> There is any significance upgrade in sound quality,soundstage and clarity or i'm wasting money ? Not intrested in simulated 5,1 etc,just pure quality stereo.
> 
> ...


The ODAC is one of my fave dacs, sound-wise if not my fave. I think if anything, upgrade that amp, which can bottleneck something like an HD650. I mean, yes, volume might be fine, but I'd always recommend getting an amp with plenty of headroom, so the amp isn't struggling. The 650 has impedance spikes over 500ohm IIRC, which makes the O2 sub-optimal. The new Magnis have a lot of power, and I'm sure would be fantastic for the 650. I like the 6xx with my Magni. I'm sure I'd love it with the new Magnis too.

The 650/6XX are known to really scale up well too. The Modi 3 is also my dac atm, and I like the fact it has multiple inputs, while the O2 is USB only IIRC.


----------



## Wintersun2015

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The ODAC is one of my fave dacs, sound-wise if not my fave. I think if anything, upgrade that amp, which can bottleneck something like an HD650. I mean, yes, volume might be fine, but I'd always recommend getting an amp with plenty of headroom, so the amp isn't struggling. The 650 has impedance spikes over 500ohm IIRC, which makes the O2 sub-optimal. The new Magnis have a lot of power, and I'm sure would be fantastic for the 650. I like the 6xx with my Magni. I'm sure I'd love it with the new Magnis too.
> 
> The 650/6XX are known to really scale up well too. The Modi 3 is also my dac atm, and I like the fact it has multiple inputs, while the O2 is USB only IIRC.


 
Thank you,really helpful!


----------



## Fegefeuer

Also consider the Vali 2.


----------



## mindbomb

Wintersun2015 said:


> Guys do you think its worth to upgrade from an old O2+DAC(2015) to something like a Schiit Magni heresy + Modi 3 just for gaming?
> 
> There is any significance upgrade in sound quality,soundstage and clarity or i'm wasting money ? Not intrested in simulated 5,1 etc,just pure quality stereo.
> 
> ...


I highly doubt it would make any difference. I'm personally considering going from a musical fidelity dac and o2 to a gsx 1000, a substantial downgrade in performance, for the dsp on the gsx. Ultimately, that's what's going to make an actual appreciable difference. It is extremely unlikely that you will end up needing more power from the amp or better resolution from the dac, I can't imagine those being bottlenecks for you.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Or a Lyr with 4490 DAC built-in for a HD650 but I'd only invest in taht if you want to use it for music as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Or a Lyr with 4490 DAC built-in for a HD650 but I'd only invest in taht if you want to use it for music as well.


That's what I'd want if it had an optical add in card.


----------



## Lurkeyyy

SierraMadre said:


> No worries, your prerogative of course. . .  but you do realise the AD900X and the ADG1X are near enough the same headphones, right? The only substantial difference is that one has a mic and more of the bass you want (ADG1X) while the other does not (AD900X).
> FWIW, it’s not a powered gaming headset or anything like that. There’s no DSP dac/amp dongle, they’re simply 3.5mm jack stereo headphones with an in-line mic. The drivers are an iteration of the AD900X design according to Audio Technica themselves and the comparative spec sheets are virtually identical. Frequency response range, driver size etc. are the same.
> 
> I can’t comment much on the Beyers, but having had experience of both the AD900X and the ADG1X, I can safely say that the ADG1X is closer to meeting your stated sonic requirements than the AD900X.
> Unless it’s specifically the mic inclusion or a local pricing differential that deters you, it would be worth at least looking into them rather than writing them off due to the gaming branding.


One of the reasons are actually the mic, i'm looking to get a desktop mic and i don't really like to have a mic attached

I was also thinking about the HD6XX since a lot of people are talking about it right now.
How would you say the HD6XX compares to the AD900X and DT 990?

From what i've read is the Sennheiser is more well rounded but how about the soundstage? I'm also upgrading from the Game Zero, do they have a similiar sound characteristic?

Thanks!


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 20, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's what I'd want if it had an optical add in card.



Why not without the DAC card and with a Modi?

Indeed silly rhey don’t add optical and coaxial to their add-in cards but they have been asked the question and the answer was clearly “no” to optical. Useful to connect a G6 though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Why not without the DAC card and with a Modi?
> 
> Indeed silly rhey don’t add optical and coaxial to their add-in cards but they have been asked the question and the answer was clearly “no” to optical. Useful to connect a G6 though.


Oh, because I'd like to not need an external dac that doesn't have VSS. So for this, I'd use probably the G6 for VSS and send that to the Lyr's optical in (in theory).


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh, because I'd like to not need an external dac that doesn't have VSS. So for this, I'd use probably the G6 for VSS and send that to the Lyr's optical in (in theory).



I get that. 
I still have to try analog out from the G6 into the Lyr, as I understand it's fixed out so no two volume pots in a row.
Will try to do so next week.

As far as software VSS goes, I really liked Boom 3D and it works with a 2 channel DAC as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Boom 3D didn't do it for me. Couldn't get a real sense of rear sounds cues.


----------



## Velsu

Alright i am 10 days in testing Audeze Mobius. I was traveling so my main usage for first 6 days was Bluetooth connected to my S10 and using LDAC to stream music from Tidal Hi-Fi and Spotify Premium. I must say they sound really great in wireless mode and battery really lasted long which was a surprise. I also heard some in game sounds (i also gamed a little bit) that i never heard on S10 speakers so that was a massive plus.

After that i connected them via USB and started listening to music. At first i was a little disappointed. From rumours i was expecting great sound but it was a little muddy. After some tweaking i changed mode to Hi-Res and set EQ to Flat and that was the best possible thing i could do. Suddently they started playing like a charm and i was able to catch some hidden sounds i was not able to pick up with my DT 990. The voices are clear, the drums are AMAZING and so natural. Soundstage seems really good and overall for closed back headphones they sound like open cans. Thanks to planar magnetics Metal and Power metal sounds mindblowing, guitars scream at me with all their power and i can spot small details that were a little clamped together when listening to it via Bass heavy DT 990.

What caughed me off-guard was listening to music in 3D mode. I set EQ to Flat, Mode to 3D manual and channels to 7.1 because i was just done with my gaming session and too lazy to switch to Hi-Res. Some songs sounded weird/worse of course than in Stereo mode (obviously) but some of them... oh my god. I never experienced anything like this with headphones. I can't even describe it, with certain songs sounds started to jump at me from all directions, usually silent 3rd plan instrument that is too silent to be heard in normal mode was clearly there back in my head, i could hear all the instruments so clearly. I can't really describe it, but if someone has time he could experiment with it because that was amazing journey. Radiohead Kid A sounds like out of this world.

As for Gaming i did not really game much because still looking for good games to test, but i did play some Apex and thanks to these headphones i die less. Seriously, i can hear footsteps from far away and pinpoint the source so i can avoid any danger or prepare for battle. I did head to head comparison with DT 990 and yes, i can clearly hear foosteps better and earlier. The 3D is amazing and You can feel bullets flying around Your head.

I was lucky enough to have a pair with not much "hiss" or any static when nothing is playing. When i play a sound i cannot hear any hiss even if Volume is at 2/100 so i am very pleased. They are also very comfortable. I was a little worried such heavy closed backs with all of these devices packed in will weight their fair bit but i can sit whole day with them on and i do not feel any fatigue.

I still need to test some movies tho.

Seriously, if You are a gamer and love music these headphones are a blast. You do not need DAC or Amp because its already build it. They are great for listening to music and are great for gaming, certaily great deal and i definitely need to recommend these.

On a side note, would anyone recommend games or movies on netflix that would be best for testing surround sound a little more?


----------



## Chastity

AppleheadMay said:


> I still have to try analog out from the G6 into the Lyr, as I understand it's fixed out so no two volume pots in a row.


The G6 has a very clean analog Line-Out, as long as  it's fed clean power.  I had to use a USB power isolator, but the results are worth it.  Output to an Asgard 3, and the amp doesn't pick up any noise to amplify.


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> I get that.
> I still have to try analog out from the G6 into the Lyr, as I understand it's fixed out so no two volume pots in a row.


Mine is not fixed volume via analogue line out at rear. Ergo 2 volume pots in a row.


----------



## RugbyPlayer (Feb 20, 2020)

So im looking at getting a setup that works interchangeably with consoles/PC. I have the mobius at home, but im really disappointed with its lack of real console support. I did some additional research after the fact and found some stuff i wish i had found in my initial search regarding the lack of VSS and low volume on consoles. Also the clamp strength hurts my ears. I have fairly large ears that dont fit 100% inside the cups (either that or i just have no clue how to properly adjust them) and it hurts after a while of gaming. I have a gaming desktop, and a PS4 Pro/Xbox One X and want something that would provide decent VSS/volume levels with all 3. I also have some klipsch speakers i use on the computer but those are hooked up to my creative labs x-fi sound card via optical so i think im set there. The thing is though while all 3 are fairly close, they arent that close, so i would need to relocate whatever i bought to plug it into each individual game system im using at the time. My main guess is im looking for something that supports VSS VIA optical? and then most likely USB to my desktop?

I will note also i do have a pioneer receiver between my consoles and the TV just hooked up through HDMI, does that make the situation any easier?


----------



## SierraMadre

Lurkeyyy said:


> One of the reasons are actually the mic, i'm looking to get a desktop mic and i don't really like to have a mic attached
> 
> I was also thinking about the HD6XX since a lot of people are talking about it right now.
> How would you say the HD6XX compares to the AD900X and DT 990?
> ...


I have heard but not owned the HD6XX and HD650 so not a lot of experience just impressions from friends’ sets. No experience of the Game Zero.
The 650 and 6XX are very well balanced, they’re good allrounders but they don’t have that airy open soundstage you appear to be seeking, I’d say the soundstage is medium-sized at best. I have seen a fair number of users call their soundstage small or “intimate” To the point that they “sound like closed-backs”.

Further to your OP, I have borrowed and been testing a pair of DT990s from a friend. Basic impressions are that it beats both Senns for sound stage and bass by a significant margin but can be oddly hot on the treble, even more than the AD900X. 

 IMO, the AD900X beats all three of the aforementioned for sound stage but comes last for bass. 

Of the three, for your stated preferences, I would recommend the DT990 unless you are willing to add bass to the AD900x via DSP/EQ or pad rolling.

If you are willing to look outside that trio then a very worthy alternative would be the AKG K7XX. That has a massive soundstage, bigger than the DT990 IMO, although not as big as the AD900X. It has considerably less bass than the DT990 but still more than the AD900X. Adding Dekoni pads can offset this to some extent, adding more bass in exchange for losing a little bit of the soundstage. I have the Elite Hybrid pads on mine and find the trade-off acceptable. The soundstage is still big but the bass has a bit more presence. If you went with the Elite leather then there’d probably be even more bass, but again, you’d give up a bit more soundstage.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Boom 3D didn't do it for me. Couldn't get a real sense of rear sounds cues.


True but I found the rear speaker effect to be the hardest to achieve with any of the soft- or hardware I tried.
Even when running the test tones in Windows where you set the speakers to 7.1 I thought they were located more to the side-rear and side speakers to the side-front.
Maybe Atmos for Headphones was the best at it but it wasn't perfect either, I found height to be more convincing than rear.
But I found Boom pleasing with some music as well, I tried to enhance some YouTube music videos with it.
I think Boom came a long way since I first tried it years ago when it was nothing more than enhancing loudness and bass.



SierraMadre said:


> Mine is not fixed volume via analogue line out at rear. Ergo 2 volume pots in a row.


Didn't know that, I guess I assumed it was going to be fixed since it's a shared optical analog out. 
It doesn't really matter that much to me as I will only use analog out as a temporary solution until I can put a DAC between the G6 and the amp and use optical.
I tried optical and it indeed can carry the SBX effect as well which is a damn nice feature and the main reason I chose to keep the G6 over the SXFI and GSX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 21, 2020)

Running the 6XX with the Xonar U3 sending Dolby headphone 2 - optical - to Modi 3/Magni 3, definitely gives me some solid rear cues.

People can say whatever they want about Dolby Headphone, but it's still one of the very best to me in terms of being able to accurately place sounds at my 5 or 7 o clock behind me. Boom and some others made it harder for me to tell if the sound is supposed to be for example 5 o clock behind me to my right as opposed to 2 o clock in front of me to my right. If it can't do that well, it's something I consider a huge failure, because that discernability is EVERYTHING to me.

I place more importance on that over whatever VSS has the most detail or sound quality precision. I want surround for the ability to actually emulate surround. I don't mind if the sound quality isn't the VERY best.
Being able to immerse myself with a real sense of having speakers around me quickly distracts from the pure fidelity loss that may occur.

Like, I think SBX has the best sound quality, but I'd put it at 3rd/4th or so in terms of VSS ability.

Surround ability (my order, not fully concrete):

1. Creative SXFI
2. Sennheiser GSX (with one + on the GSX1000)
3. Dolby Headphone 2 (2 out of 3. 1 is too little reverb, 3 has too much reverb)
4. Creative SBX at around 100% surround (even at 100%, the reverb and sound quality are still better than all the others, but surround isn't AS good)
5. Waves NX  (I use it at 40% surround on the Mobius. Reverb gets out of hand with higher settings)
6. THX Tru Studio (what Creative used to use before SBX. Sounds like SBX but less accuracy in positional placement, and sound quality is a bit worse)

These are the main 6 I trust to work for me well enough. As always, games engines are also a factor and can sound great or awful. I won't say anything about Atmos/Sonic/DTX Headphone X, since I've been limited to the Windows versions which I think have been awfully disappointing. I'm sure a hardware or in game solution is great.

If we're going off strict sound quality itself, the order would change to probably have SBX at #1 for me.

Other than when using the Mobius with Waves, I've mainly been using DH for the past few months almost exclusively. From that Xonar U3/Modi/Magni setup for PC, to my Mixamp 5.8 for console use.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Running the 6XX with the Xonar U3 sending Dolby headphone 2 - optical - to Modi 3/Magni 3, definitely gives me some solid rear cues.
> 
> People can say whatever they want about Dolby Headphone, but it's still one of the very best to me in terms of being able to accurately place sounds at my 5 or 7 o clock behind me. Boom and some others made it harder for me to tell if the sound is supposed to be for example 5 o clock behind me to my right as opposed to 2 o clock in front of me to my right. If it can't do that well, it's something I consider a huge failure, because that discernability is EVERYTHING to me.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I really need to get a GSX 1000!

Re SBX VSS THX:

TBH, I’m not entirely convinced that SBX is any different to THX other than in branding. I have both the original THX Soundblaster Recom 3D usb dac/amp and the later SBX-rebadge version of the very same unit and they sound the same for everything, VSS included. 

I suppose it’s possible they may have refined SBX with newer devices but back when those two Recon 3D units were my go-to audio devices (had one for bedroom, one for living room), in surround testing with a variety of content, I couldn’t tell the difference from A/B comparison and neither could my friends.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SierraMadre said:


> Sounds like I really need to get a GSX 1000!
> 
> Re SBX VSS THX:
> 
> ...


My experience with THX TS was through a Recon 3D USB which sounded a little rough with some audible distortion and wonky positional cues. So I dunno. You might be right, but from my experience, it was different enough for me to feel placing them in two separate categories. Even HeSuVi's presets sound different for both. Though I don't account for HeSuVi because its unofficial, and definitely didn't sound exactly like the real deal.


----------



## Velsu

Lurkeyyy said:


> One of the reasons are actually the mic, i'm looking to get a desktop mic and i don't really like to have a mic attached
> 
> I was also thinking about the HD6XX since a lot of people are talking about it right now.
> How would you say the HD6XX compares to the AD900X and DT 990?
> ...



As i stated earlier, i have DT 990 and beign using them for gaming and music for 10 years and i ordered HD6xx few days ago so i can give You my impressions when they arrive and differences between them in games.


----------



## ronfifer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The 6XX arrived, and holy smokes, I forgot just how damn good the 650 was/is. It might be slightly driver variance or bad memory, but these sound even clearer than the 650 I reviewed back in the day. And even now, I'd say people would be CRAZY to NOT go for the 6XX in the $200 range.
> 
> I think the 6XX/650 is one of those headphones anyone even remotely invested in audiophilia needs to get at least once before moving on to more expensive stuff. You may find that it's all you can ask for and more. I think these would be my #1 recommendation in the price bracket. More than the 880/990/K702/etc.
> 
> ...



Are you recommending the 6xx for gaming or general use and music specifically? Soundstage + imaging is superb?


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My experience with THX TS was through a Recon 3D USB which sounded a little rough with some audible distortion and wonky positional cues. So I dunno. You might be right, but from my experience, it was different enough for me to feel placing them in two separate categories. Even HeSuVi's presets sound different for both. Though I don't account for HeSuVi because its unofficial, and definitely didn't sound exactly like the real deal.


Another thing that made me suspicious was that the THX unit worked with the SBX version of the control app, VSS adjustments included (had the THX version of the app installed on one machine and the SBX version installed on the other).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 21, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Are you recommending the 6xx for gaming or general use and music specifically? Soundstage + imaging is superb?


My HD650 Review sorta already answered all that though my opinions aren't exactly the same. And yes, VSS offsets whatever limitations the headphones have. Wouldn't be my top choice for gaming, but it does so very well. Definitely enough that I wouldn't cry if it was my only headphones for that.

I will be re-reviewing then since the 650 review was before I found my "real," review style, but most of the things probably remain true. I do have some opinions that have changed. I think if I had to choose between the 6XX and the HE400 today, it'd be the 6XX. Since other things have also changed, and I think they're better for gaming than I initially thought on that review.

In short, some things may have changed. By re-review, I mean I'm replacing the old review, though I'll keep it as a footnote or something.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2020)

I am trying out dts headphone x 2.0 now, from the windows 10 app store. It has equalization filters for a bunch of headphones, including for my hd 650, so that is convenient. I will say though, it doesn't sound great on stereo sources, if you force it to process them. But I believe in using the same processing on everything, so one trick I have found is to use software dolby prologic II decoding in my media player - that creates 5.1 audio that helps trigger the processing (since it only works on surround sound), but also moves a lot of the stereo channels into the center channel, which seems to prevent comb filtering problems.

It comes with a balanced and spacious setting, and the spacious setting is actually pretty spacious. Both seem like a big step up from dolby atmos for headphone in terms of getting a good out of head experience.


----------



## Chastity

mindbomb said:


> I am trying out dts headphone x 2.0 now, from the windows 10 app store. It has equalization filters for a bunch of headphones, including for my hd 650, so that is convenient. I will say though, it doesn't sound great on stereo sources, if you force it to process them. But I believe in using the same processing on everything, so one trick I have found is to use software dolby prologic II decoding in my media player - that creates 5.1 audio that helps trigger the processing (since it only works on surround sound), but also moves a lot of the stereo channels into the center channel, which seems to prevent comb filtering problems.
> 
> It comes with a balanced and spacious setting, and the spacious setting is actually pretty spacious. Both seem like a big step up from dolby atmos for headphone in terms of getting a good out of head experience.


That's one thing that I really like with my Creative G6 setup.  I can have it in 7.1 mode, but still listen to stereo music without it mutating the L/R into a surround field.  Also the reason I use a low setting for Surround.  I want it on to give me a correct surround fielld, but my 2.0 music doesn't get molested either.


----------



## mindbomb

Chastity said:


> That's one thing that I really like with my Creative G6 setup.  I can have it in 7.1 mode, but still listen to stereo music without it mutating the L/R into a surround field.  Also the reason I use a low setting for Surround.  I want it on to give me a correct surround fielld, but my 2.0 music doesn't get molested either.


The windows spatial sound stuff just won't touch stereo audio, so I think you would appreciate that. However, right now, I'm watching the youtube video of Will Ferrell eating Chicken Wings on Hot Ones with dolby prologic II which is forcing dts headphone x on, and I feel the act of seeing people in front of me talking + the dsp projecting the audio in front of me is a valuable experience in learning to interpret what the dsp is doing.


----------



## illram

mindbomb said:


> I am trying out dts headphone x 2.0 now, from the windows 10 app store. It has equalization filters for a bunch of headphones, including for my hd 650, so that is convenient. I will say though, it doesn't sound great on stereo sources, if you force it to process them. But I believe in using the same processing on everything, so one trick I have found is to use software dolby prologic II decoding in my media player - that creates 5.1 audio that helps trigger the processing (since it only works on surround sound), but also moves a lot of the stereo channels into the center channel, which seems to prevent comb filtering problems.
> 
> It comes with a balanced and spacious setting, and the spacious setting is actually pretty spacious. Both seem like a big step up from dolby atmos for headphone in terms of getting a good out of head experience.



I was thinking about trying that out last night. How is it for rear cues? Is it "object oriented" like Atmos, i.e. will be work on an Atmos mix like Sonic?


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 22, 2020)

illram said:


> I was thinking about trying that out last night. How is it for rear cues? Is it "object oriented" like Atmos, i.e. will be work on an Atmos mix like Sonic?


It seems fine for rear cues. My understanding is that if an application supports the spatial sound api, then it will support object based surround sound. I ran a 7.1 speaker test just now, and the center and rear channels sounded good to me, but the other channels sounded a little off when using the balanced setting. Hopefully that goes away over time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 23, 2020)

Didn't like DTS Headphone X at all. At least not the W10 version. Rear cues non-existent to me. Instead of you being positioned in a circle, the circle is cut in half and you're positioned on the flat side. Nowhere for rear cues to go but to your sides.


----------



## deadchip12

Anyone here plays Blair Witch the video game? It’s among the few games that claim to have binaural audio. I'm playing the game on pc with headphone but I don't think I'm getting binaural audio. Sounds very stereo-ish to me (left-right-center) with small soundstage. Any idea why?

Please check out the gameplay video I recorded below. This is what I hear in game. Pay attention to the dog barking. Sounds very close to the ears even though the dog is far away.


----------



## mindbomb (Feb 23, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Didn't like DTS Headphone X at all. At least not the W10 version. Rear cues non-existent to me. Instead of you being positioned in a circle, the circle is cut in half and you're positioned on the flat side. Nowhere for rear cues to go but to your sides.



I haven't had issues with the front or rear of dts headphone x. Although that might be because Overwatch, the only game I tested, might support windows spatial sound or rear speakers. A 5.1 game might have that issue more if they get mapped to the side channels.


----------



## super kermit

Audio out via USB and stereo out at the same time needed.

Windows 10

Please help me, this is a tricky one.

I have a set of GSP 670 USB Wireless Gaming Sennhesiers for gaming only

https://en-au.sennheiser.com/gaming-headset-wireless-gsp-670

I also have a set of AURA PRO bass shakers/buttkickers/ tactile transducers

Aura AST-2B-4 Pro Bass Shaker Tactile Transducer

https://www.parts-express.com/aura-ast-2b-4-pro-bass-shaker-tactile-transducer--299-028

on the heavily modified gaming/HOTAS chair

IKEA MARKUS

https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/50261151/

powered by a

SMSL SA-98E HiFi Amplifier TDA7498E 160Wx2 Power Amplifier Digital Stereo Audio Mini Amp

https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B0839CJJKP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I can go 3.5mm to RCA or OPTICAL out to a converter to change it to RCA to feed the SMSL amp for the buttkickers

BUT

*I cannot get the audio out to the USB wireless headphones AND output to the SMSL to drive the buttkickers*

SOUNDCARDS

Soundblaster AE-5 AND onboard sound

Z390 AORUS MASTER onboard sound

https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherboard/Z390-AORUS-MASTER-rev-10#kf

AND

Sound BlasterX AE-5

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5

Please help me

Cheers


----------



## Jornel

Hello guys.

Need some expertise here.
Can someone give feedback about the Yamaha HPH series (MT5/ MT7 or MT8) for serious gaming.
The best accurate Positional audio and imaging its my aim. Soundstage (mid to large) and footsteps its important too.

Can someone help if this can be used for just gaming?

Thanks


----------



## halcyon (Feb 25, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Didn't like DTS Headphone X at all. At least not the W10 version. Rear cues non-existent to me. Instead of you being positioned in a circle, the circle is cut in half and you're positioned on the flat side. Nowhere for rear cues to go but to your sides.


Just like me. Companies who think they can generate believable positional cues with a generic HRTF and lots of echo/reverb AND do not provide any customization, are imho, most likely to fail.

For me Sennheiser GSX (my current in-use solution) and Creative's CMSS-3D and SBX Studio Pro are still the best for me (after tuning), for front-rear positional accuracy.

I wish Creative would allow for parameter tuning in SXFI, but until that happens, it's a no-go for me.


----------



## mindbomb

The main issue I am having at the moment with dts headphone x is that in 7.1,  while the center and rear speakers sound good, the front and side speaker don't. I think it may be bugged. I can get my media player to just not use those virtual speakers. And games that support spatial sound seem to be fine. But I am not sure what happens to a game that uses traditional surround sound.


----------



## Jornel (Feb 27, 2020)

Guys,

beyerdinamic mmx 300 gen 2 with a decent dac/amp are better than shp9500s with sennheiser gsx 1000?
Need better positional audio, soudstage and sharp footsteps...and some audio quality too.
Should i switch?

thanks for your knowledge guys


----------



## mindbomb

Jornel said:


> Guys,
> 
> beyerdinamic mmx 300 gen 2 with a decent dac/amp are better than shp9500s with sennheiser gsx 1000?
> Need better positional audio, soudstage and sharp footsteps...and some audio quality too.
> ...


If you set up the 7.1 properly on the gsx, it will end up with an insurmountable advantage in a lot of games, because in 7.1, there are distinct front and rear channels, but in stereo, there are not. So determining front vs back should be better with the gsx and shp9500 in many cases.


----------



## Jornel

mindbomb said:


> If you set up the 7.1 properly on the gsx, it will end up with an insurmountable advantage in a lot of games, because in 7.1, there are distinct front and rear channels, but in stereo, there are not. So determining front vs back should be better with the gsx and shp9500 in many cases.


In the knob of gsx 1000 I only have ON the headphones logo, FPS mode and 7.1. Everything else is turned off.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jornel said:


> In the knob of gsx 1000 I only have ON the headphones logo, FPS mode and 7.1. Everything else is turned off.


Add a + sign under the headphone icon.


----------



## Jornel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Add a + sign under the headphone icon.


I´ll try. What does that?
That´s small room ambient right? with +++ is large room?


----------



## 474194 (Feb 27, 2020)

AC-12 said:


> Trying to find time to mess with Hesuvi.  It's a bit of a pain.  Just using G6 SBX 'FPS' profile in the meantime.
> 
> I run through the steps in Hesuvi, but I want to 'Test 7.1'.  All I get is 'this file type not associated with program... default programs'.  If anyone knows a fix, pls let know.
> 
> ...



Finally figured out a solution.  I separate admin and user accounts, so the admin account is minimalistic and didn't have Groove music app installed.  I guess Hesuvi needs a third-party to process the audio playback.  Once I tried the 'Test 7.1' on the user account, things were straightforward.

Starting off with 'DHT' as it's the safest VSS option.

I wasn't sure if I needed to add Hesuvi to startup apps, but I'm assuming it's embedded in the Windows Audio Service.  I tried looking in task manager with no success for Hesuvi or EQ APO.


----------



## mindbomb

Jornel said:


> In the knob of gsx 1000 I only have ON the headphones logo, FPS mode and 7.1. Everything else is turned off.


yea, to add to what has been said, I would also make sure that windows is set to 7.1 in control panel, sound, configure speakers.


----------



## Jornel (Feb 28, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> yea, to add to what has been said, I would also make sure that windows is set to 7.1 in control panel, sound, configure speakers.


yes, windows is in 7.1 mode.

Also, guys.

What do you recomend for only gaming (80% competitive and 20% fun)?
I was looking to:
- DT 900 Pro (250 ohm?)
- DT 880 Pro (250 ohm?)
- AKG K701 (or K702 diference?)
- AKG K712 pro

Thanks


----------



## deadchip12

Is the dt770 80ohm good for immersive gaming and movies? I'm using the open back fidelio x2hr but recently looking at closed back again. The x2hr seems a lot quieter and not as visceral/bass impactful as my other closed back headphone (Sony Platinum Headset). The soundstage is also not that much bigger if at all. It may sound a bit more airy and natural though, but the fact that isolation is poor on the x2hr seems to cause some loss in details (my room is not exactly dead quiet). I heard that the dt770 80ohm has great bass and very good soundstage for a closed back?


----------



## TheSpur22

My curiosity finally got the better of me yesterday. I've been using the HD58X for over a year now and have been extremely pleased with them. I game on PS4 and have them hooked up to a Mixamp 5.8 with a JDS Labs Atom. I've been dying to try the K702's from the glowing impressions on this forum. Finally got my chance yesterday but got to say I was not impressed, that is at first. But once I put the HD58X back on, they seemed a bit muddy in comparison. I can't wait to test them more over the weekend as my time with them yesterday was very limited. I did notice that I may have gotten the wrong version. It's been a while since I read through here but I guess the K702 that was actually recommended was the 65th anniversary editions. I got the standard K702, is there a major difference between the two?

Thanks,


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 28, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> My curiosity finally got the better of me yesterday. I've been using the HD58X for over a year now and have been extremely pleased with them. I game on PS4 and have them hooked up to a Mixamp 5.8 with a JDS Labs Atom. I've been dying to try the K702's from the glowing impressions on this forum. Finally got my chance yesterday but got to say I was not impressed, that is at first. But once I put the HD58X back on, they seemed a bit muddy in comparison. I can't wait to test them more over the weekend as my time with them yesterday was very limited. I did notice that I may have gotten the wrong version. It's been a while since I read through here but I guess the K702 that was actually recommended was the 65th anniversary editions. I got the standard K702, is there a major difference between the two?
> 
> Thanks,


The regular K702 does get frequently recommended on this thread to those looking to soundwhore on competitive MP without any regard to immersive / fun tonality. It’s perfect for those who just want a massive, airy soundstage with superlative imaging and separation for locating footsteps etc. and don’t care about anything else.

The K702 anniversary edition of which there are two iterations (different pads) are  warmer, smoother and more engaging than the K702. The treble isn’t as harsh and there’s considerably more presence in the low end with very little compromise to imaging and soundstage. They are however, out of production, and as a result you’ll likely pay over the odds for it second hand, more so if you find somewhere offering them new.

. . . But, AKG have since collaborated with Drop (formerly Massdrop) to offer the K7XX which is the closest of AKG’s current models to the second iteration of the Anniversaries. They are generally regarded as being very similar if not practically the same headphones in tonality.

Also, read this. It’s the best (subjective) comparison of the major AKG K7~ models out there:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/my-...s-and-the-rest-to-stop-this-confusion.752994/

As for 58X vs K7XX, here are the top google search results for K7XX / 58X review videos that compare the two. Both preferred the K7XX (as do I). That being said, I don’t think there‘s a big enough difference between the two for the average user to retain both unless they have a need for two pairs of somewhat similar sounding headphones. If on the other hand, you plan on selling the 58Xs should the K7XX be to your liking, then yeah, as a replacement upgrade, I’d say they’re worth it.


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> The regular K702 does get frequently recommended on this thread to those looking to soundwhore on competitive MP without any regard to immersive / fun tonality. It’s perfect for those who just want a massive, airy soundstage with superlative imaging and separation for locating footsteps etc. and don’t care about anything else.
> 
> The K702 anniversary edition of which there are two iterations (different pads) are  warmer, smoother and more engaging than the K702. The treble isn’t as harsh and there’s considerably more presence in the low end with very little compromise to imaging and soundstage. They are however, out of production, and as a result you’ll likely pay over the odds for it second hand, more so if you find somewhere offering them new.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the detailed response. I really love the sound of the K702 and I can definitely pick apart sounds in Rainbow Six much easier, especially when there is a lot going on. With the 58X, when the audio gets busy, I start to miss important audio cues. I think the main thing that has me questioning these is the comfort. They are light and the clamping force is perfect but they are causing some slight discomfort, mainly on the tips of my ears, where they are slightly touching the drivers. The 58X were like vice grips at first but have broken in nicely.


----------



## SierraMadre (Feb 29, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> Thanks for the detailed response. I really love the sound of the K702 and I can definitely pick apart sounds in Rainbow Six much easier, especially when there is a lot going on. With the 58X, when the audio gets busy, I start to miss important audio cues. I think the main thing that has me questioning these is the comfort. They are light and the clamping force is perfect but they are causing some slight discomfort, mainly on the tips of my ears, where they are slightly touching the drivers. The 58X were like vice grips at first but have broken in nicely.


I had the same problem with my K7XX, the foam in the stock pads was inconsistent in density and uneven in effective thickness  leading to the same result, painful ears from pinna tip touching the driver cover. That’s not a problem that can be alleviated / broken in. If it’s an issue now, it will only get worse over time with wear.

Dekoni‘s replacement pads specially designed for the AKG K7 series resolved the problem for me and stopped me from selling the K7XXs on. They are thicker and the memory foam is better. Go for the Velours if you want pretty much the same as the stock sound. Go for the Hybrids if you want a little bit more bass and slightly smoother treble and are willing to spend a bit more.
Whatever you do, don’t get Brainwavz, at least not for the K7 series.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I'm getting pretty interested in the Creative SXFI CARRIER: https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-sxfi-carrier
An Atmos soundbar, one of the first HDMI 2.1 devices with SXFI technology for the soundbar as well as headphone output.
Can't find it on the EU site yet though.


----------



## SierraMadre

AppleheadMay said:


> I'm getting pretty interested in the Creative SXFI CARRIER: https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-sxfi-carrier
> An Atmos soundbar, one of the first HDMI 2.1 devices with SXFI technology for the soundbar as well as headphone output.
> Can't find it on the EU site yet though.


According to the below link from a hands-on, SXFI tech is only applied to the headphone out, not the soundbar’s own drivers. Still, driver output sounds promising given the claims of collaborative design with Dolby.

https://www.techradar.com/uk/reviews/creative-sxfi-carrier-soundbar


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> I had the same problem with my K7XX, the foam in the stock pads was inconsistent in density and uneven in effective thickness  leading to the same result, painful ears from pinna tip touching the driver cover. That’s not a problem that can be alleviated / broken in. If it’s an issue now, it will only get worse over time with wear.
> 
> Dekoni‘s replacement pads specially designed for the AKG K7 series resolved the problem for me and stopped me from selling the K7XXs on. They are thicker and the memory foam is better. Go for the Velours if you want pretty much the same as the stock sound. Go for the Hybrids if you want a little bit more bass and slightly smoother treble and are willing to spend a bit more.
> Whatever you do, don’t get Brainwavz, at least not for the K7 series.



I got the chance to spend several hours with these and while I still love the sound, I'm not sure I'll ever like the way they sit on my head, even with a pad swap. Is there anything out there that has a similar sound as the K702 but fit your head like the Sennheiser HD series?


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 5, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> I got the chance to spend several hours with these and while I still love the sound, I'm not sure I'll ever like the way they sit on my head, even with a pad swap. Is there anything out there that has a similar sound as the K702 but fit your head like the Sennheiser HD series?


Not sure as aside from your ears touching the driver, which can be remedied, you haven’t specified what you don’t like about the way it sits on your head. . .? If it’s the clamping force being too loose, the pad swap will also alleviate that too as the increased thickness and firmness increases the clamping force.

If on the other hand, it’s the suspension headband you don’t like then the Philips SHP9500 can be had cheaply or you could wait for the imminent 9600 successor model . . .but I think they would most likely be more of a side grade from the 58X rather than an upgrade.

Problem is the traditional recommended similar sounding alternatives to the AKG K6 and 7 series are the Audio Technica AD700 and AD900 series that have the rather divisive 3D wing suspension system. If you are willing to give them a try then I would recommend the AD900X or the ADG1X which is the gaming iteration and has an integrated mic along with some gaming oriented tuning (otherwise they are exactly the same, driver size and design, frequency response etc.).There is also the AD700X is even harsher on the treble and drier / more thin and lacking in bass than the K702 IMO.

Beyond that you could maybe look at the much more expensive Sennheiser HD660S, the discontinued HD700 or try the Beyer Dynamic range (DT880, 990, 1770X etc.)  but these are all less similar to the K702 than the Philips SHP9500, let alone the Audio Technicas.


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> Not sure as aside from your ears touching the driver, which can be remedied, you haven’t specified what you don’t like about the way it sits on your head. . .? If it’s the clamping force being too loose, the pad swap will also alleviate that too as the increased thickness and firmness increases the clamping force.
> 
> If on the other hand, it’s the suspension headband you don’t like then the Philips SHP9500 can be had cheaply or you could wait for the imminent 9600 successor model . . .but I think they would most likely be more of a side grade from the 58X rather than an upgrade.
> 
> ...



Sorry I kind of have a hard time putting into words how they feel. The best way I can describe it is the Senn's feel like they are made for my head and the AKG's are kind of like putting a hard box on my head. I tried the AD700's back in the day and I had the same experience, loved the sound hated how the fit my head. If I remember correctly, my experience comfort wise is very similar between the AD700 and K702. Thanks again for taking the time to help, I'm not really all that dissatisfied with the 58X's and will probably keep them even if I get another set. I was just looking for something a little more competitive oriented to go along with them.


----------



## SierraMadre

TheSpur22 said:


> Sorry I kind of have a hard time putting into words how they feel. The best way I can describe it is the Senn's feel like they are made for my head and the AKG's are kind of like putting a hard box on my head. I tried the AD700's back in the day and I had the same experience, loved the sound hated how the fit my head. If I remember correctly, my experience comfort wise is very similar between the AD700 and K702. Thanks again for taking the time to help, I'm not really all that dissatisfied with the 58X's and will probably keep them even if I get another set. I was just looking for something a little more competitive oriented to go along with them.


Are you using it for PC or console or both?


----------



## TheSpur22 (Feb 29, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> Are you using it for PC or console or both?



Console only, mostly on PS4, Xbox One occasionally.


----------



## SierraMadre

TheSpur22 said:


> Console only, mostly on PS4, Xbox One occasionally.


I am guessing that model of ASTRO Wireless Mixamp lacks EQ? 
Are you just using it for plain dac duties or are you also using it for Dolby headphone VSS?


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> I am guessing that model of ASTRO Wireless Mixamp lacks EQ?
> Are you just using it for plain dac duties or are you also using it for Dolby headphone VSS?



No EQ on this model. Main usage is for game and chat volume mix. VSS usage depends on the headphone and the game I'm playing. The 58X seem to behave better in stereo, the K702 and my old PC360's are best in VSS.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I will be re-reviewing then since the 650 review was before I found my "real," review style, but most of the things probably remain true. I do have some opinions that have changed. I think if I had to choose between the 6XX and the HE400 today, it'd be the 6XX. Since other things have also changed, and I think they're better for gaming than I initially thought on that review.



Pre christmas I had a very long Division 2 session and just kept the HD 650 on and played with them. Didn't find it really truly detrimental to the experience. Makes for an immersive can if you can stomach the lowest octaves not being clean, clear or defined (or separated cleanly the more stuff is going on) as many other headphones.
Still the bass goes very very low (at least my JAR 650) and the lack of control adds a woofery note to the overall sound.
Also don't expect a huge soundstage like the HD 800 or a big one like the T1 but still good enough in conjunction with a VSS. 

I recommend the 650 just to have it in your inventory for a nice good reset on how "cheap" things can be and yet be so wonderfully sounding with great timbre and detail.

Also, you should have never sold off your HE-4. It's such a nice gem. Fast, agile, jumpy, detailed, lots of air.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> Pre christmas I had a very long Division 2 session and just kept the HD 650 on and played with them. Didn't find it really truly detrimental to the experience. Makes for an immersive can if you can stomach the lowest octaves not being clean, clear or defined (or separated cleanly the more stuff is going on) as many other headphones.
> Still the bass goes very very low (at least my JAR 650) and the lack of control adds a woofery note to the overall sound.
> Also don't expect a huge soundstage like the HD 800 or a big one like the T1 but still good enough in conjunction with a VSS.
> 
> ...


There's many things I shouldn't have sold off, lol. D7000 to name another.


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 2, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> No EQ on this model. Main usage is for game and chat volume mix. VSS usage depends on the headphone and the game I'm playing. The 58X seem to behave better in stereo, the K702 and my old PC360's are best in VSS.


Perhaps a dac upgrade would serve you better than a headphone upgrade unless you want to spend several times more the price of your 58X. Something like the G6 would provide an alternative VSS option in SBX (which can be customised in its intensity for variable degrees of separation and projection) along with custom EQ options for basic compensation that should improve spatial awareness and imaging precision.

See for general info:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

It’s a PC project and works best with parametric equalisation but in lieu of that on consoles, with a dac that offers custom EQ profiles (Creative G6, X7 or Steelseries Gamedac etc.) you could try manual copying of the fixed band graphic EQ settings.

The below is the recommended EQ profile based on the Harman target curve for HD58X:

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/oratory1990/harman_over-ear_2018/Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> Perhaps a dac upgrade would serve you better than a headphone upgrade unless you want to spend several times more the price of your 58X. Something like the G6 would provide an alternative VSS option in SBX (which can be customised in its intensity for variable degrees of separation and projection) along with custom EQ options for basic compensation that should improve spatial awareness and imaging precision.
> 
> See for general info:
> https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq
> ...



The G6 is very much on my radar but a few things have been holding me back. Chat mix was introduced in beta but feedback on how well it works is very limited. There are also reports of the mic cutting out while in party chat on PS4. So I've been waiting for these issues to get ironed out before giving it a try. In the meantime I caved in and ordered the Dekoni velour pads for the K702's. Hopefully this will solve my comfort issues, as I really like the sound. Thanks again


----------



## SierraMadre

Fegefeuer said:


> I recommend the 650 just to have it in your inventory for a nice good reset on how "cheap" things can be and yet be so wonderfully sounding with great timbre and detail.


How much is the 650 in your neck of the woods? 
"Cheap" is of course relative, but it's not the first word that comes to mind with a general retailers' price of £280 - £350 (let alone Sennheiser's own MSRP of £400).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 2, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> How much is the 650 in your neck of the woods?
> "Cheap" is of course relative, but it's not the first word that comes to mind with a general retailers' price of £280 - £350 (let alone Sennheiser's own MSRP of £400).




I don't think anyone should be getting the 650 any time soon, unless there's no way to get the 6XX, which is so much cheaper and is the same thing. Unless people are collectors and NEED the 650 branding, of course.

But yeah, I do wonder if Fege being over there would net him a price that isn't as high as it would be for the US.


----------



## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't think anyone should be getting the 650 any time soon, unless there's no way to get the 6XX, which is so much cheaper and is the same thing. Unless people are collectors and NEED the 650 branding, of course.
> 
> But yeah, I do wonder if Fege being over there would net him a price that isn't as high as it would be for the US.


Just looked at the Drop price for the 6XX, didn’t realise it was only $195. Superb value.
100-200 really is the sweetspot for price/performance value and scaling right now. So 
many great options across that price range, PC 37X, SHP9500, K612 at the 100 mark, 58X Jubilee and Fidelio X2 at the 130 - 160:mark and K7XX and 6XX at the 200.


----------



## Eyadish

I am planning to pick up the Drop x Panda for it multi-use area (that includes the boommic perk too)

I would like your opinion too on the best way to plug it into my PC. I've looked at a few different options, but I have no clue what is best.

Simple USB C cable to use the internals. Would then require some kind of other usb microphone that would be in the way, so I wouldn't prefer it this way.
Schiit Hel. Quite simple why.
Some kind of DAC/Amp stack (Looked at Schiit modi and magni, but other options might be better), and figure out a way to get good mic quality (maybe just plug it into the motherboard)
The craziest option, a amp and then use the Focusrite Scarlett solo 3rd gen as a DAC aswell as mic input, with a XLR to 3.5 mm adapter. 
Just use the Scarlett as a dac/amp?
I wouldn't have an issue spending a little money on it ($200-$300), but I am thinking that maybe I am just would get stuff I really don't need.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eyadish said:


> I am planning to pick up the Drop x Panda for it multi-use area (that includes the boommic perk too)
> 
> I would like your opinion too on the best way to plug it into my PC. I've looked at a few different options, but I have no clue what is best.
> 
> ...


You really should revolve use of it around Bluetooth and the USB (a newer addition to its versatility). After all, it has some pretty high quality internals for those purposes. If you really wanna use a dac and amp, I'd get something else that would make more sense for that.

Yes, the Aux input is really excellent and works well, but seriously, don't get it if that's your main use.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Eyadish said:


> I am planning to pick up the Drop x Panda for it multi-use area (that includes the boommic perk too)
> 
> I would like your opinion too on the best way to plug it into my PC. I've looked at a few different options, but I have no clue what is best.
> 
> ...


I would assume the USB is for charging only and does not carry and audio signal.
So it's either the 3.5mm jack for analog or wireless, for audio, for the Panda.
Maybe get the Xduoo XD-05 or Topping DX3 Pro, I believe the newer version support Bluetooth
(as well as both offering analog audio (3.5mm) connection.
Plug the mic into the on-board audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PurpleAngel said:


> I would assume the USB is for charging only and does not carry and audio signal.
> So it's either the 3.5mm jack for analog or wireless, for audio, for the Panda.
> Maybe get the Xduoo XD-05 or Topping DX3 Pro, I believe the newer version support Bluetooth
> (as well as both offering analog audio (3.5mm) connection.
> Plug the mic into the on-board audio.


Nah, they're adding usb functionality on it. It was already working on the review unit, though not perfectly. They updated starting it's coming.


----------



## SierraMadre

Recommendations Sought, Warm Solid State Amp or dac/amp for HD800S​
Looking for a euphonic, warm sounding solid state amp or dac/amp with good synergy for rendition of expansive soundstage and decent holography, preferably under 300 (but could exceed if particularly ideal), BUT one that will tame the treble and glare and give the bass more body and presence without having to resort to EQ.

Context:

I currently use the Massdrop THX AAA fed from the G6 lineout for my console/TV setup with custom EQ profile. I would prefer to reserve the Soundblaster profile on the G6 lineout for my desktop speakers as having to plug the G6 into PC just to change the profile assigned to the line-out is a hassle. I already have a nice little budget tube hybrid (Loxjie P20) that I use for my desktop setup that makes the HD800S sound smooth enough for me not to need EQ (and I already plan on getting a true tube amp in due course - probably the Eddie Current ZDT Jr or the Feliks Audio Echo) but in the meantime, I would like an amp or dac/amp for the TV end that provides me with a plug and play, palatable, non-fatiguing presentation with the HD800S’s for console gaming and Blurays.

Asgard 3?

I have have seen several posts here on Headfi suggesting that the new Schiit Asgard 3 has good synergy with HD800 and plenty more describing it generally as warm, full / lush and generally euphonic sounding.
On the other hand, I have also seen a few other posts from users on various forums claiming that the Asgard 3 is more neutral and thinner / brighter than the Asgard 2 which worries me because I haven’t seen many describe the Asgard 2 in this way except in “warm at least as far as Schiit stuff goes”-terms, let alone euphonic. “Warm by Schiit standards“ or the warmish side of neutral is not really what I’m looking for, I want warm in general. If I want neutrality I already have the THX amp and other cans with signatures that are better suited for my ears with that amp. Obviously there will always be contrasting opinions as to what is warm/lush/euphonic but I would appreciate some recommendations.

Other recommendations I have come across are ifi-black DSD and IFI-micro I-Can Special Edition, Matrix M-stage HPA 3B and the Gimore Lite Mk2 but these are all considerably more expensive than the Asgard 3.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## AppleheadMay

In the Schiit lineup I'd be looking more at two of their tube offerings: Lyr 3 like I have for all kinds of cans, Valhalla 2 for HD800(S)/820/650/600.
They'll be more in the line of "warm, as far as Schiit goes" but don't expect anywhere near euphonic from what I have already heard from Schiit.

An amp I had that answers to most of your requests could be the HD-DAC1 from Marantz, I had one for quite a while and used it with the 800S.
SS, typical Marantz mid-forward sound but warmer than what I usually heard from them, full and warm bass but a bit muddy (not tight and controlled controlled like with the Luxman amps I have/had), no nasty treble anymore. As far as I can remember it won't do anything extra for your soundstage though but I wasn't all that into VSS and using it with movies at the time.
Used prices: https://www.hifishark.com/model/marantz-hd-dac-1

Else the smaller Woo amps maybe? But that's tubes again.


----------



## HieroX

SierraMadre said:


> Ignore the post where I recommended X3 for SXFI back when I first got it. I have just edited it now in case anyone else comes across it.
> 
> At the time of that original posting, I had only cursorily tested SXFI on it, assuming that it would generally be as good as SXFI on the SXFI AMP which I already owned and had plenty of experience with.
> 
> ...



Hi SierraMadre, 

We agreed on this point in the SXFi thread. 
I just went to Creative HQ in Singapore with both my SXFi amp and X3 to show them the differences in SXFi implementation.

Just a recap on the differences between X3 and SXFI amp: 

The SXFi function on the X3 is vastly inferior as compared to the SXFi amp. This is regardless of gen1 or gen2 profiles. I bought the SXFi amp when it first launched in Nov 2018. I came to like the SXFi sound, and that's the main reason why I bought the X3 for my desktop PC. However, the SXFi on the X3 is currently very distorted, especially on the busy parts of the track. The mids and lows are severely affected, so any tracks that have a lot of bassy instruments will feel congested, and the mids will be absent.  

Before I had a meeting with the engineers there, I went to test out one of the X3s they had in the showroom. They had the same issue, so it's not because my unit is defective. 

During the meeting, I supplied the engineers with audio tracks that emphasized the differences between the X3 and SXFi amp. 
The good news is that they are already aware of the problem; I merely supplied the tracks and personal experience to confirm their findings. They are currently developing a firmware update to fix this problem and also told me that it is very likely a DSP issue, as I could hear the immediate improvements to the SXFi quality when they hooked up my X3 to their workstation and changed some settings. 

Anyone holding on to the X3 should hear improvements in the SXFi effect when the update comes out.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nah, they're adding usb functionality on it. It was already working on the review unit, though not perfectly. They updated starting it's coming.


I had tried to find a manual for the Panda, no luck.
So the USB connection carries a digital audio signal.
Making it very easily for the Panda to work with a PC


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> In the Schiit lineup I'd be looking more at two of their tube offerings: Lyr 3 like I have for all kinds of cans, Valhalla 2 for HD800(S)/820/650/600.
> They'll be more in the line of "warm, as far as Schiit goes" but don't expect anywhere near euphonic from what I have already heard from Schiit.
> 
> An amp I had that answers to most of your requests could be the HD-DAC1 from Marantz, I had one for quite a while and used it with the 800S.
> ...


Thanks for the recommendations!
I had come across the HD DAC1 in my trawling but at close to £600 it was rather a bit too above my budget to justify given that the SS option is partly an interim until I get a true tube amp. In any case, I know now to keep it in mind if I decide to widen my considered price range or can overcome my aversion to secondhand equipment that costs over £200.

Re soundstage, I wasn’t really looking for improvements, rather trying to avoid amps with more ’initimate’ presentations. More than happy with the HD800S staging as is, just didn’t want anything that would detract from it.

Other things I considered were:

the mini-dsp HA which offers parametric EQ profiles and came strongly recommended for the HD800 by the fast-becoming-legendary-on-audio-forums Oratory1990 who is behind most of the best recommended compensation profiles on Auto-EQ and Hesuv but as far as I can tell, it’s battery-charge only and can’t charge and play at the same time.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/ha-dsp-headphone-amp

and,

Franz/Solderdude of DIYAudioHeaven fame’s Project Kameleon headphone specific in-line analogue compensation filter marketed commercially by Project Garage 1217. Also considered his/their highly rated tube and hybrid tube amps too.

http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_018.htm

Much to think about!



HieroX said:


> Hi SierraMadre,
> 
> We agreed on this point in the SXFi thread.
> I just went to Creative HQ in Singapore with both my SXFi amp and X3 to show them the differences in SXFi implementation.
> ...


Outstanding stuff!
Thanks for the heads up!

Have you notified that doubting-Thomas on the other thread? You know, Mr.-“SXFI on the X3 is amazing and yours is either broken or you don’t know how to set it up properly or you‘re just a whiner who can’t appreciate greatness.”

- I am paraphrasing and over-dramatising slightly of course, but that was the general gist of their attitude to the mere notion that their beloved X3 might not be rendering SXFI properly like the SXFI AMP


----------



## HieroX (Mar 6, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> Outstanding stuff!
> Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> Have you notified that doubting-Thomas on the other thread? You know, Mr.-“SXFI on the X3 is amazing and yours is either broken or you don’t know how to set it up properly or you‘re just a whiner who can’t appreciate greatness.”
> ...



Haha well.. I see no need to.
If his X3 is amazing, it's either he's lucky(new batch of X3s), or he is not able to tell the difference.

If it's the latter, he won't be able to notice the improvements in the new update anyway.

I also tend not to partake in any discussions that are meaningless. =D


----------



## HieroX

hey guys, I have been using the He4xx since January with Creative X3. 
On the X3, it's stated that low gain is for headphones below 150 ohms, while high gain is for headphones above 150ohms. 
Will it damage the He4xx if I use high gain?


----------



## PurpleAngel

HieroX said:


> hey guys, I have been using the He4xx since January with Creative X3.
> On the X3, it's stated that low gain is for headphones below 150-Ohms, while high gain is for headphones above 150-Ohms.
> Will it damage the He4xx if I use high gain?


Nope, it takes the same amount of voltage/current, for a given loudness, whether the amp is set for low gain or high gain.
Chances are you would hurt your eardrums, before damaging the headphones.


----------



## HieroX

PurpleAngel said:


> Nope, it takes the same amount of voltage/current, for a given loudness, whether the amp is set for low gain or high gain.
> Chances are you would hurt your eardrums, before damaging the headphones.


Ahh I see. So as long as sound levels are in the healthy levels(Not jet engine loud) on high gain, both me and the He4xx will be fine? Thanks!


----------



## Vader2k (Mar 9, 2020)

Creative is having a 30% off March Madness sale, and it includes the X7, G6 and SXFI products:

https://us.creative.com/sale/
Coupon Code:  *MARCH30*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 9, 2020)

Looking at those Pebble V2 speakers for personal use... I'd ask Creative to send them to me, but I wouldn't know the first thing in reviewing speakers, lol.



Vader2k said:


> Creative is having a 30% off March Madness sale, and it includes the X7, G6 and SXFI products:
> 
> https://us.creative.com/sale/
> Coupon Code:  *MARCH30*


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 9, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Looking at those Pebble V2 speakers for personal use... I'd ask Creative to send them to me, but I wouldn't know the first thing in reviewing speakers, lol.


After seeing the price and the rave reviews, I bought a pair of Pebbles (2.0 sub-less version) for my elderly dad not too long ago on a whim. He wasn’t at all unhappy with the even cheaper, budget Logitech 2.0’s he was already using but I was curious as to the product and it was a nice opportunity for a surprise gift, particularly one with drivers appropriately angled 45 degrees upwards towards his ailing ears (the Logitechs were more or less angled flat). He is very happy with them but he’s not massively discerning (let alone an audiophile). My own impressions on the otheir hand. . . :

Fidelity, precision in layering and separation etc. are very good for the price and that *does* make them a “bargain” of sorts . . . but at the same time I don’t think you get *that* much more than you pay for, at least not with the 2.0 version. I’ve seen a few claims here and there to the effect that these sound closer to speakers that would normally be approaching the 100 mark but that is definitely not the case with the 2.0 Pebbles I got if we’re talking remotely decent 100 dollar speakers.  I just didn’t find the law of diminishing returns to be strong when comparing the Pebbles to a decent set of speakers in the 80-200 range (for context and contrast, if I compare my AKG K7XXs or Fidelio X2s to the Sennheiser HD800S, I find the law of diminishing returns to be very applicable).
I don’t claim any of the following units to be any kind of gold standard benchmark in their price range but versus the Pebbles: -

- The £140 2.0 Edifiers I got for my own desktop during a sale last year are worth every penny of the differential in price for performance IMO and I’d even say the same if I had bought them at full price which was closer to 200.

- Same for a different / cheaper pair of Edifiers  that I recently bought for extended travel trips away. These too trounce the Pebbles (e10 BT model, usually around the 80 mark but if you search / wait for deals, they can be had for as low as 50-60).

- Same for the Audio Engines (A2+) in my room back home (family home).

- They were also *handily* outperformed by the built-in speakers on the iMac my dad uses them with. (If you’re wondering why my dad needs / uses the Pebbles if the MAC speakers are better, it‘s because he is a tech-incompetent former Luddite who still types with one finger and needs help with anything but basic browsing or email and needs something with an easily accessible analogue volume knob).

Overall, of all the desktop speaker sound sources I own, I’d say the Pebbles only beat the built-in speakers in my Windows Surface Pro 7 laptop/tablet hybrid and those of my old Asus VG278H monitor.

In any case, if you are going to get them, make sure you get the 2.1 version, perhaps the sub makes all the difference (and I would have thought they can be used independently of the sub too if need be); the bass on the sub-less 2.0s I got for my dad don’t really cut it, especially if you want to be able to pump up the volume and have a satisfying experience.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 10, 2020)

Ah, my reasons are because my new supervisor started complaining about me wearing Koss clip ons at work, even though I can hear everything outside and I literally work alone 99.9% of the time. So I just want something when I sit at the desk, since the Switch, and my phone's internal speakers don't quite reach good levels in a large skyrise lobby. This way people don't see me wearing anything (outside the closed lobby), and I can hear what I'm listening to in comfort.

I don't need anything particularly remarkable, and I kinda like how they looked, as well as the price with the coupon code.

I was actually looking into neckband speakers too.


SierraMadre said:


> After seeing the price and the rave reviews, I bought a pair of Pebbles (2.0 sub-less version) for my elderly dad not too long ago on a whim. He wasn’t at all unhappy with the even cheaper, budget Logitech 2.0’s he was already using but I was curious as to the product and it was a nice opportunity for a surprise gift, particularly one with drivers appropriately angled 45 degrees upwards towards his ailing ears (the Logitechs were more or less angled flat). He is very happy with them but he’s not massively discerning (let alone an audiophile). My own impressions on the otheir hand. . . :
> 
> Fidelity, precision in layering and separation etc. are very good for the price and that *does* make them a “bargain” of sorts . . . but at the same time I don’t think you get *that* much more than you pay for, at least not with the 2.0 version. I’ve seen a few claims here and there to the effect that these sound closer to speakers that would normally be approaching the 100 mark but that is definitely not the case with the 2.0 Pebbles I got if we’re talking remotely decent 100 dollar speakers.  I just didn’t find the law of diminishing returns to be strong when comparing the Pebbles to a decent set of speakers in the 80-200 range (for context and contrast, if I compare my AKG K7XXs or Fidelio X2s to the Sennheiser HD800S, I find the law of diminishing returns to be very applicable).
> I don’t claim any of the following units to be any kind of gold standard benchmark in their price range but versus the Pebbles: -
> ...


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 10, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ah, my reasons are because my new supervisor started complaining about me wearing Koss clip ons at work, even though I can hear everything outside and I literally work alone 99.9% of the time. So I just want something when I sit at the desk, since the Switch, and my phone's internal speakers don't quite reach good levels in a large skyrise lobby. This way people don't see me wearing anything (outside the closed lobby), and I can hear what I'm listening to in comfort.
> 
> I don't need anything particularly remarkable, and I kinda like how they looked, as well as the price with the coupon code.
> 
> I was actually looking into neckband speakers too.


Ah, I see! That does rule out the sub but if AQ is not that much a concern then fair enough. 20 dollars for ok 2.0's sounds just right.

Another cheap option, that was widely covered in the media at the beginning of the year around CES. Can't find much in the way of reviews though.

https://www.newegg.com/black-phanteks-company-ph-spk219-dbk01-pc-mini-speaker/p/N82E16836777001


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh wow, they look like the Phanteks Evolv pc cases. I was actually gonna get that case, but then I saw thermals weren't good on it. But they look good. I'll look into it, if I decide on something.



SierraMadre said:


> Ah, I see! That does rule out the sub but if AQ is not that much a concern then fair enough. 20 dollars for ok 2.0's sounds just right.
> 
> Another cheap option, that was making widely covered in the media at the beginning of the year around CES. Can't find much in the way of reviews though.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/black-phanteks-company-ph-spk219-dbk01-pc-mini-speaker/p/N82E16836777001


----------



## TheSpur22 (Mar 10, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> The G6 is very much on my radar but a few things have been holding me back. Chat mix was introduced in beta but feedback on how well it works is very limited. There are also reports of the mic cutting out while in party chat on PS4. So I've been waiting for these issues to get ironed out before giving it a try. In the meantime I caved in and ordered the Dekoni velour pads for the K702's. Hopefully this will solve my comfort issues, as I really like the sound. Thanks again



So the Dekoni pads did not help, I guess my head, while on the larger side was just not made for the AKG's. I splurged and picked up the DT 1990 Pro's and these are much more to my liking comfort wise, the sound is not as wide as the K702 but I'm able to pinpoint sounds very well. I also jumped on the G6 since it was on sale. I have one question as I'm still very new at this. If it's even possible is there any benefit at all to running both the Creative G6 and JDS Labs Atom? Or am I better off trying to sell the Atom if I like the G6? My use case is 95% gaming and my music listening is done mostly through Spotify on the PS4. Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 10, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> So the Dekoni pads did not help, I guess my head, while on the larger side was just not made for the AKG's. I splurged and picked up the DT 1990 Pro's and these are much more to my liking comfort wise, the sound is not as wide as the K702 but I'm able to pinpoint sounds very well. I also jumped on the G6 since it was on sale. I have one question as I'm still very new at this. If it's even possible is there any benefit at all to running both the Creative G6 and JDS Labs Atom? Or am I better off trying to sell the Atom if I like the G6? My use case is 95% gaming and my music listening is done mostly through Spotify on the PS4. Thanks



Not sure what the spec is on the atom, but it may have a higher quality amplifier than the G6. Though as with all solid states, differences are minimal at best, as long as the headphone is driven properly. I don't know the 1990's power requirements or if they even scale.


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 14, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> So the Dekoni pads did not help, I guess my head, while on the larger side was just not made for the AKG's. I splurged and picked up the DT 1990 Pro's and these are much more to my liking comfort wise, the sound is not as wide as the K702 but I'm able to pinpoint sounds very well. I also jumped on the G6 since it was on sale. I have one question as I'm still very new at this. If it's even possible is there any benefit at all to running both the Creative G6 and JDS Labs Atom? Or am I better off trying to sell the Atom if I like the G6? My use case is 95% gaming and my music listening is done mostly through Spotify on the PS4. Thanks


Basically what MLE said. You can easily test it out though.

My own experience of using the G6 as dac and pre-amp to a more powerful amplifier  via 3.5mm rear  lineout (G6 > Loxjie P20 / Massdrop THX 789 AAA):

- Max volume G6, endpoint amp only as loud as necessary: difference was not huge but at least noticeable enough to be worth considering

Max volume endpoint amp, G6 only as loud as necessary:

- Difference more noticable still, enough to be a no brainer as the default setup. *However*, BE CAREFUL trying this. The G6 can prove temperamental when using rest / sleep mode for consoles (leading to random distortion necessitating disconnect /reconnect of G6 and reboot of consoles) and, during some kind of momentary glitch a week or so ago where my Ps Pro freezed momentarily for a few seconds, the sound from my G6 cutout before re-engaging. . . at MAX VOLUME. The G6 hadn’t remembered the relatively low volume level it was previously on, so I got a double dose of max G6 volume plus max amp volume. Cans are ok but NOT a pleasant experience and still have tinnitus from despite it only being a couple of seconds duration.

Doctor says eardrums are fine and my general hearing accuracy appears unimpaired but unclear at this stage whether the tinnitus will improve, let alone go away. Inner ear hair cells probably damaged, hopefully it’s  only temporary. . if it lasts more than a month, then I’m gonna book an ENT appointment.

So, for best audio quality but some possible risk to cans / ears:

AMP at max, G6 at minimum

For best safety:

G6 at max, amp at minimum.

Maybe there is some recommended happy medium/balance to be had in between, dunno. Have been trying to avoid headphone use for the moment in the hope I can heal up.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh wow, they look like the Phanteks Evolv pc cases. I was actually gonna get that case, but then I saw thermals weren't good on it. But they look good. I'll look into it, if I decide on something.


Yeah, they started off as a joke by Phanteks, April Fool’s or something like that, but they garnered such a positive reaction and genuine demand that Phanteks went ahead and made them into an actual product.


----------



## TheSpur22

SierraMadre said:


> Basically what MLE said. You can easily test it out though.
> 
> My own experience of using the G6 as dac and pre-amp to a more powerful amplifier  via 3.5mm rear  lineout (G6 > Loxjie P20 / Massdrop THX 789 AAA):
> 
> ...



Oh man that sucks, hope the tinnitus goes away. I've had TMJ problems that causes minor but very annoying tinnitus. 
So yeah, I believe I will experiment with G6 by itself and the G6 at max, with Atom at minimum to see if I have a preference. 
Definitely don't want any surprise max volume bursts. Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 10, 2020)

Ok guys, so I have made a substantial update...

*Audeze LCD-1 Review* (added update in the build quality/cups section. Minor entry talking about Audeze having fixed the cable entries.)

*Audeze Mobius Review* (added optional *Cryo Pads* entry in the review's accessories section. Please read, it's quite a bit.) I'll likely take some pics of the pads a little later.

*Images* (took me MANY HOURS TO DO THIS). Fixed all the broken image links on the first guide post, and added back many missing images, (though could not add all of them). For the more recent reviews, ALL the images are still in their respective reviews when you click on *"Review First Posted Here"*. The extra images have been removed on the first guide post due to image limits. Also, images for old, irrelevant headphone entries that are either discontinued or impossible to get have been removed. Some still remain, and they will stay up unless I need extra image space in the future.


----------



## super kermit

Recommendations for over-ear, closed AND open headphones for gaming PC only 

Must be

*Closed-back - it is for home so sound leakage is an issue when gf around
Open-back - for when I am home alone
Replaceable cable preferred
Budget - $250 US per headset
Looks mean nothing
Microphone not needed, I can always add wireless mod mics later

So I need TWO pairs - one open one closed

THINKING*

Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO 250ohm
AGK K7xx(massdrop) / K702
Sennheiser HD6xx(massdrop) / HD650
Beyerdynamic DT 990 250ohm
Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR Over-Ear Open-Air Headphone 50mm Drivers
Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X
HiFiman HE4XX (massdrop/drop)

*Using Soundblaster X7 for amplifier etc. - 

SPECIFICATIONS
Audio Technology*
SB-Axx1™
*Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR)*
127dB (DAC)
*Platform*
USB 2.0, _Bluetooth_, USB 1.1, USB 3.0, Line-In
*Connectivity Options (Main)*
microUSB
*Microphone :*
Built-in Stereo Mic
1 x 1/8" (3.5mm) Mic In
*Line / Optical :*
1 x RCA Aux/Line In
1 x TOSLINK Optical In
1 x TOSLINK Optical Out
*Speaker :*
2 x Binding Post Passive Speaker Out (L/R)
1 x ⅛″ (3.5mm) Rear Speaker Out
1 x ⅛″ (3.5mm) Center/Sub Speaker Out
1 x RCA Line/Front Speaker Out
*Headphone :*
1 x ⅛″ (3.5mm)Headphone Out
1 x ¼″ (6.3mm)Headphone Out
1 x Type A USB Host Port - Device Audio Stream & Charging
*Max Channel Output*
5.1 Channels, Stereo Amplified
*Audio Technologies*
SBX Pro Studio
*Microphone*
Microphone Type: Dual-array Noise Canceling Condenser
*Supported Operating Systems*
Windows® 7, Windows® 8, Windows Vista®, Mac OS X v10.6.8 and above, Windows® 8.1, Windows® 10
*Audio Fidelity*
Up to 24-bit / 192kHz


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 11, 2020)

super kermit said:


> Recommendations for over-ear, closed AND open headphones for gaming PC only
> 
> Must be
> 
> ...


Check out the review page of the thread as MLE has reviewed most of those.

For other users’ impressions, take the headphone model number and paste it into the search function. You can filter the search to this MLE gaming thread only.
You should find that there has been extensive comment on most, if not all of those cans you listed including plenty of comparisons amongst them which should help you trim your shortlist to two or three final candidates based on the kind of sound signature / characteristics you want.


----------



## deadchip12

I bought the g6 in January this year but only since a few days back I’ve started noticing this issue during games/movies: There is randomly a small but audible pop sound every 10-20 minutes or so. G6 and Windows 10 are both at the latest firmware. Any idea?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 12, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I bought the g6 in January this year but only since a few days back I’ve started noticing this issue during games/movies: There is randomly a small but audible pop sound every 10-20 minutes or so. G6 and Windows 10 are both at the latest firmware. Any idea?


Lower to around 24bit/96khz in the sound control panel. And manually set the device to 2 channels when not playing video games. If you try listening to music and other 2 channel content while 5.1 or 7.1 speakers is selected, you get that sort of thing happening. Only turn on 5.1/7.1 when playing games and enabling SBX (if you do). This can be done in the software, and is the main culprit, so it's not too cumbersome to switch.

It's annoying to constantly change from 7.1 to 2 channel, but trust me, it stops the popping and stuff.

I do wish the software had a bitrate selector instead of having to go to the sound control panel all the time.


----------



## deadchip12 (Mar 12, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Lower to around 24bit/96khz in the sound control panel. And manually set the device to 2 channels when not playing video games. If you try listening to music and other 2 channel content while 5.1 or 7.1 speakers is selected, you get that sort of thing happening. Only turn on 5.1/7.1 when playing games and enabling SBX (if you do). This can be done in the software, and is the main culprit, so it's not too cumbersome to switch.
> 
> It's annoying to constantly change from 7.1 to 2 channel, but trust me, it stops the popping and stuff.
> 
> I do wish the software had a bitrate selector instead of having to go to the sound control panel all the time.


Sorry but this happens when I use dolby atmos for headphone (16bit 48hz) with the g6 set to direct more. I think it happens to all other modes as well and regardless of the source (video games, movies, etc.)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 12, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> Sorry but this happens when I use dolby atmos for headphone (16bit 48hz) with the g6 set to direct more. I think it happens to all other modes as well and regardless of the source (video games, movies, etc.)


Ah, turn off direct mode. That too is buggy. You can still more or less get a similar outcome by turning off all G6 enhancements in the software.

Dolby Atmos forces 16/44 - 2 channel IIRC, so you don't need to worry about the other stuff.


Though I question why you'd go with Atmos over SBX, which I feel is still better.


----------



## deadchip12 (Mar 12, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ah, turn off direct mode. That too is buggy.


But if I turn off direct mode the g6 will apply some form of surround effect, no? I want to use dolby atmos for headphone with the g6 so I don’t want any extra vss on top.

And even without direct mode I think I notice the pop with other modes as well (5.1 sbx, 7.1 sbx)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 12, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> But if I turn off direct mode the g6 will apply some form of surround effect, no? I want to use dolby atmos for headphone with the g6 so I don’t want any extra vss on top


No, the surround mode is SBX which you can manually turn off. EVERY enhancement on the G6 can be manually turned off in the software. You do not need direct mode whatsoever. It is convenient if you do happen to turn on a bunch of stuff when gaming, and want to turn it all off at any point (like for msic), but it can cause audible problems, as you have experienced.

So yes, open the software and disable everything. EQ, night mode, sbx surround, crystallizer, etc.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, the surround mode is SBX which you can manually turn off. EVERY enhancement on the G6 can be manually turned off in the software.


Ok.

But even without direct mode I think I notice the pop with other modes as well (5.1 sbx, 7.1 sbx)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

deadchip12 said:


> Ok.
> 
> But even without direct mode I think I notice the pop with other modes as well (5.1 sbx, 7.1 sbx)


Like I said, 5.1/7.1 can have pops. If you set it to 2 channel (when Atmos is off) it shouldn't be popping.

Then there's the fact you might have a bad usb port/cable. It may not even be the G6.

I still suggest turning off everything, including direct mode, making sure you're not on 5.1/7.1 either, and that the bit rate is not higher than 24/96 (which shouldn't be if Atmos is enabled.)


----------



## AppleheadMay

deadchip12 said:


> Sorry but this happens when I use dolby atmos for headphone (16bit 48hz) with the g6 set to direct more. I think it happens to all other modes as well and regardless of the source (video games, movies, etc.)



I suspect it's more of an USB problem than a problem with your G6.
If you have it connected to a hub try connecting directly to your PC.
If not try some different USB ports: 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.1 gen 2.
Also you're less likely to have it on the ports directly connected to the mainboard than ports on a bracket connected via a wire to the mainboard.
If you have it on all ports, try temporarily disconnecting some other devices.
If you must use a hub, prefer a 2.0 rather than 3.0 hub for devices that don't need 3.0.
Some devices don't work properly or fail to work alltogether on 3,0 hubs because they emit some kind of radiation. Wireless USB dongles often do not work.


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 13, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> I bought the g6 in January this year but only since a few days back I’ve started noticing this issue during games/movies: There is randomly a small but audible pop sound every 10-20 minutes or so. G6 and Windows 10 are both at the latest firmware. Any idea?


I get this sometimes too. I have experienced these problems on Xbox One X and PC with Atmos for headphone and PS Pro just with SBX in general so I don't think it's confined to Atmos for headphone. Close down Sound Blaster Connect completely (remove from system tray). Disconnect G6, give it 10 secs or so then reconnect and relaunch G6 if necessary that usually fixes it for the rest of the session. If using PS4 or Xbox sometimes a full reboot of the console is needed. Additionally my Xbox One X is prone to this problem with other DAC/amps and even through HDMI on speakers too.

Frequency and severity is particularly exacerbated for me if I let the connected system go into sleep / standby and then wake/resume a session without doing the above. Play time length may also have something to do with it once the problems start in a given session they get worse the longer I use.

You could try changing USB cords or using different USB ports. I changed to a cord with a ferrite bead and that seemed to help a bit but that could be placebo. I also changed to wall wart usb adapter power for the G6 rather than using the draw from the PS4 but not sure if it made much difference as I applied all of the above fixes at once rather than meticulously attempting to test each one individually in turn.

In any case, I have been able to mostly stop it from continuing by doing all of the above but the more I use sleep without doing the above, the more it comes back


----------



## IrisYuki

Hey there, just got my new headphone today. What amp/dac should I get for lcd gx?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

IrisYuki said:


> Hey there, just got my new headphone today. What amp/dac should I get for lcd gx?


They're pretty sensitive, so practically any amp will work fine. Choose something that appeals to you and what you need out of it. Like, don't get the Schiit Hel if you need to plug in consoles, etc.


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## IrisYuki

I just need some amp/dac so I can use the mic, I'm using a mojo and it's the worst if I want to gaming because I have to switch back to the normal plug


Mad Lust Envy said:


> They're pretty sensitive, so practically any amp will work fine. Choose something that appeals to you and what you need out of it. Like, don't get the Schiit Hel if you need to plug in consoles, etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maybe start out with Creative G6. That has a mic input, and works with everything. Just make sure you have a pc nearby to adjust the features on the G6 before you start using it.


----------



## IrisYuki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Maybe start out with Creative G6. That has a mic input, and works with everything. Just make sure you have a pc nearby to adjust the features on the G6 before you start using it.


Thanks for the recommendation, I was reading your review for Schiit stuff, Is it worth buying Hel compare to G6?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're only playing on PC and don't wanna use virtual surround, then yes. If you plan on using it on anything else pr wanna use SBX, then go with the G6.


----------



## TheSpur22

My G6 should arrive today and I'm trying to take in as much info as I can so setup will go smoothly. I feel like this question kind of answers itself but I just want to be sure. From what I've read Direct Mode does not work on PS4, for most games I want to use VSS but Rainbow Six Siege seems to do better with stereo in my experience. Will simply turning off SBX change the signal to stereo, or would I need to make an SBX profile in order to turn off processing? Thanks


----------



## mindbomb

TheSpur22 said:


> My G6 should arrive today and I'm trying to take in as much info as I can so setup will go smoothly. I feel like this question kind of answers itself but I just want to be sure. From what I've read Direct Mode does not work on PS4, for most games I want to use VSS but Rainbow Six Siege seems to do better with stereo in my experience. Will simply turning off SBX change the signal to stereo, or would I need to make an SBX profile in order to turn off processing? Thanks


tbh, I don't understand why an fps would ever be better in plain stereo. Wouldn't the ability to better differentiate front and back always be desirable?


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## TheSpur22 (Mar 13, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> tbh, I don't understand why an fps would ever be better in plain stereo. Wouldn't the ability to better differentiate front and back always be desirable?



In pretty much every other FPS I've played yes, I prefer VSS. But something about RB6, at least to my ear and on the Mixamp 5.8 is easier to pinpoint in stereo and I can still pickup front and back. Now the G6 and SBX may blow me away and be a totally different experience and I may not want to resort to stereo for that game. Just wanted to know if that was an option without having to make the changes on the software side every time.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> My G6 should arrive today and I'm trying to take in as much info as I can so setup will go smoothly. I feel like this question kind of answers itself but I just want to be sure. From what I've read Direct Mode does not work on PS4, for most games I want to use VSS but Rainbow Six Siege seems to do better with stereo in my experience. Will simply turning off SBX change the signal to stereo, or would I need to make an SBX profile in order to turn off processing? Thanks


There is NO NEED to use Direct Mode. You can simply turn off SBX on the device, and if you're like me and ONLY uses SBX either on or off, and no other feature, you can turn off all the other enhancements in the PC software, so essentially only enabling sbx or not is all you need. Direct mode is not necessary.

I believe direct mode just bypasses the areas that go through the enhancements. If you don't have any enhancements turned on, well there shouldn't really be any difference. I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but the end result isn't different enough to be like "OH YEAH, DIRECT MODE IS BETTER THAN JUST TURNING ALL THE THINGS OFF". At least that's my opinion. Direct Mode is more a convenience if you use things like SBX, EQ, Crystallizer, voice morph, etc, where toggling all of those OFF is more of a hassle than just turning on Direct Mode.


----------



## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> There is NO NEED to use Direct Mode. You can simply turn off SBX on the device, and if you're like me and ONLY uses SBX either on or off, and no other feature, you can turn off all the other enhancements in the PC software, so essentially only enabling sbx or not is all you need. Direct mode is not necessary.
> 
> I believe direct mode just bypasses the areas that go through the enhancements. If you don't have any enhancements turned on, well there shouldn't really be any difference. I'm sure it's a little more complicated than that, but the end result isn't different enough to be like "OH YEAH, DIRECT MODE IS BETTER THAN JUST TURNING ALL THE THINGS OFF". At least that's my opinion. Direct Mode is more a convenience if you use things like SBX, EQ, Crystallizer, voice morph, etc, where toggling all of those OFF is more of a hassle than just turning on Direct Mode.



I played around with it a bit last night and just turning off SBX using the button on the G6 made the sound quality nose dive. Fortunately Rainbow Six sounds very good with SBX set at about 70%. Tried it on 100% but the way sound travels on that game did not work well at all. The best thing of all is the slight hiss I was getting from the Mixamp 5.8 does not exist on the G6. Also using the Beta firmware for game/chat mix and while not as intuitive as Astros implementation, it's very usable.


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## SierraMadre (Mar 14, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> In pretty much every other FPS I've played yes, I prefer VSS. But something about RB6, at least to my ear and on the Mixamp 5.8 is easier to pinpoint in stereo and I can still pickup front and back. Now the G6 and SBX may blow me away and be a totally different experience and I may not want to resort to stereo for that game. Just wanted to know if that was an option without having to make the changes on the software side every time.


I don't have Rainbow Six Siege but a cursory search on the net suggests that there are no audio channel config settings in-game which means it will look to the PS4 audio settings to decide output. If you set it to bitstream Dolby via optical then leaving SBX off will have the G6 downmix the 5.1 Dolby multichannel down into 2 channel stereo, probably vanilla stereo as one would expect for speaker output. If you have it set to output PCM via optical the PS4/game engine will do the downmix instead.

If you don't connect via optical and just use USB instead then it seems the PS4 treats the audio output as the same as headset output from the controller because the volume control function is the same as if one were using the headphone out from the controller.
In this instance it would be more than likely you would receive the game developers' own VSS mix utilising the PS4's in-built VSS-capable DSP based on AMD's True Audio API.

http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-4-audio-dsp-based-on-amds-trueaudio-technology/


----------



## Chastity

deadchip12 said:


> I bought the g6 in January this year but only since a few days back I’ve started noticing this issue during games/movies: There is randomly a small but audible pop sound every 10-20 minutes or so. G6 and Windows 10 are both at the latest firmware. Any idea?


To anyone with G6 crackling/popping:  It's a bug with Windows 10, the DirectSound buffers get borky, and you get error on playback.  Can even lead to output going silent, and requiring a device reset.  (unplug/plug)  IIRC, this is addressed in 20H1.  Easy fix is to alternate Direct Mode and back.  (You can also change DS bit/samplerate default.  This will reset DirectSound too)


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 14, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> I played around with it a bit last night and just turning off SBX using the button on the G6 made the sound quality nose dive. Fortunately Rainbow Six sounds very good with SBX set at about 70%. Tried it on 100% but the way sound travels on that game did not work well at all. The best thing of all is the slight hiss I was getting from the Mixamp 5.8 does not exist on the G6. Also using the Beta firmware for game/chat mix and while not as intuitive as Astros implementation, it's very usable.


Did you make sure all the other enhancements were off in the software? Because it shouldn't be sounding different than direct mode. I'm gonna have to test for this. Also make sure you've fully updated both firmware and drivers on the G6. Gotta go to Creative's website for that.


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## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Did you make sure all the other enhancements were off in the software? Because it shouldn't be sounding different than direct mode. I'm gonna have to test for this. Also make sure you've fully updated both firmware and drivers on the G6. Gotta go to Creative's website for that.



Thanks, I'm totally new at messing with audio through software. These are the settings I'm using. Is there anything else that I need to turn off?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 15, 2020)

Your Crystallizer is ON. Direct mode turns that OFF, so that may be a huge reason it sounds so different. Also, SBX is ON in that screenshot. Basically if you want it to be as close as Direct Mode, you can just toggle off that  or the BlasterX Acoustic Engine toggle, which turns them all off.

Turn all that off, and report back how close/different it is compared to Direct Mode.


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## SierraMadre

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Your Crystallizer is on as is your EQ. Direct mode turns off both of those, so that may be a huge reason it sounds so different. Also, SBX is ON in that screenshot. Basically if you want it to be as close as Direct Mode, you can just toggle off that BlasterX Acoustic Engine toggle, which turns them all off.
> 
> Turn all that off, and report back how close/different it is compared to Direct Mode.


Isn’t EQ already off in that pic? The icon would be in green, otherwise, no? 
Dolby DRC is on though


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 15, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> Isn’t EQ already off in that pic? The icon would be in green, otherwise, no?
> Dolby DRC is on though


Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. I was thinking it'd say off, or flat. My mistake. I'll edit to reflect that.

Also, regardless of what kind of technical mumbo jumbo is behind Crystallizer, the result of it is that it sounds like an EQ, and noticeably affects sound quality. So that alone would cause the sound to be different compared to off.


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## Fegefeuer (Mar 15, 2020)

Crystallizer also affects the time domain, so the perception of imaging/positioning will get worse, more diffuse.

There is no need for it in any case if you got your chain running well. Not for the HD 650 or anything else as well if you're thinking "dark" headphones and all.

SBX@100 is well balanced enough. Sure it lacks the bass boost of the Atmos which is very immersive when it rains and thunders in DC (Division 2) but overall it is well balanced in the context of staging size, clarity and imaging. Positioning behind could be better but I don't see anything better at the moment that improves upon SBX.

Sennheiser's GSX in a standalone device with optical out could be a candidate but it doesn't exist in that form.


----------



## mindbomb

https://www.waves.com/how-and-when-to-use-dynamic-eq

That explains what crystallizer does


----------



## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. I was thinking it'd say off, or flat. My mistake. I'll edit to reflect that.
> 
> Also, regardless of what kind of technical mumbo jumbo is behind Crystallizer, the result of it is that it sounds like an EQ, and noticeably affects sound quality. So that alone would cause the sound to be different compared to off.



I believe Crystalizer was the reason for the major sound difference, so I guess the sound when switching SBX off wasn't necessarily worse just different. Thanks for the help, I look forward to playing around with the G6 more.


----------



## Playstation

Hey Friends

Can anyone tell me if I would be able to use a coaxial audio cable with my TV? 

Thanks


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2020)

Playstation said:


> Hey Friends
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I would be able to use a coaxial audio cable with my TV?
> 
> Thanks


You can use an spdif optical cable. Just make sure the tv audio is set to 2 channel pcm if you're using a normal dac like a Modi. If you're using a gaming amp/dac like the G6, you can set the TV audio to 5ch dolby digital / bitstream.

It more or less depending on what you're connecting to the TV.

You can also use regular rca audio cables to connect to an amp or speakers, though you're at the mercy of whatever cheap dac is in the TV. I would only go this way if it's the only option you have. It's the ports right below the optical out.


----------



## Yethal

Digital Foundry's analysis of final Xbox Series X hardware. The most important aspect from audio perspective: We're finally getting hardware accelerated 3D audio on system level and not engine level


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can use an spdif optical cable. Just make sure the tv audio is set to 2 channel pcm if you're using a normal dac like a Modi. If you're using a gaming amp/dac like the G6, you can set the TV audio to 5ch dolby digital / bitstream. It more or less depending on what you're connecting to the TV. You can also use regular rca audio cables to connect to an amp or speakers, though you're at the mercy of whatever cheap dac is in the TV. I would only go this way if it's the only option you have. It's the ports right below the optical out.



yeah. I've always used optical, even after they removed the port from the ps4 slim. AnywayI read coaxial is better because it can carry more frequencies? Don't they make some kind of hdmi to coax adapter? Even if they do, i feel like that wouldn't sound any better because of the additional component the sound world have to pass through. I wonder if newer optical cables carry more information. The one I'm using is probably nearing ten years in age, and it was a fairly cheap one. 

Also. The other day I switched between consoles. Either the wrong codec, or output was selected, which resulted in this terribly loud pulsing/tapping noise. Luckily my volume was down, it only occurred for a couple of second, and my headphoneseem to be fine. What in the world is that awful sound? Can it hurt the headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> yeah. I've always used optical, even after they removed the port from the ps4 slim. AnywayI read coaxial is better because it can carry more frequencies? Don't they make some kind of hdmi to coax adapter? Even if they do, i feel like that wouldn't sound any better because of the additional component the sound world have to pass through. I wonder if newer optical cables carry more information. The one I'm using is probably nearing ten years in age, and it was a fairly cheap one.
> 
> Also. The other day I switched between consoles. Either the wrong codec, or output was selected, which resulted in this terribly loud pulsing/tapping noise. Luckily my volume was down, it only occurred for a couple of second, and my headphone seem to be fine. What in the world is that awful sound? Can it hurt the headphones?


That's likely because of using the incorrect sound type. It sounds like BRRRRRRRRT. Your headphones should be fine. After all it's just a loud sound. Headphones are made to output sound, lol. As long as it wasn't overly loud. Even then, your headphone likely didn't suffer any damage. If it did, you'd hear it.

What matters is whatever dac you're using. It won't matter if your dac can't get any of that super high end data to begin with.


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## Playstation (Mar 16, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What matters is whatever dac you're using. It won't matter if your dac can't get any of that super high end data to begin with.



smsl sd 793ii.

If this dac is good enough. Would it be worth it to upgrade my optical cable or add an adapter to utilize the coaxial port? Maybe I wouldn't notice a difference.

How much data do todays optical cables carry? 24-bit/96kHz ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2020)

Optical cable either transmit data or don't. Its LIGHT. It either sends it or doesn't. There's no reason to change optical cable unless it's messed up and not working. And yes 24/96. 

As for your dac, it does up to 24/96. So there's nothing you can do from your optical to make it better.

Also, most tvs only send out 16/44 or 16/48 from their optical outs anyways....

You'd do better connecting straight from a source, not the tv. Unless of course you're streaming from the TVs apps itself.


----------



## TheSpur22

Sorry, I thought I had it figured out but now I'm sure I do, I just don't know what settings to change to fix it. The problem is when I'm using the line out from my G6 to my JDS Labs Atom with SBX switched off, on the device, sounds directly to my left @ 9 o'clock switch to the right speaker on my headphones (sounds on the right stay on the right). But if I leave SBX turned on, on the device, the left and right channels work as they should. Now if I plug my headphones directly into the G6 and don't use my Atom amp, there are no issues at all with SBX turned on or off. I know I should probably just use the G6 standalone if this is the case but there's got to be a way to get these devices to play nice right? Thanks


----------



## Chastity

TheSpur22 said:


> Sorry, I thought I had it figured out but now I'm sure I do, I just don't know what settings to change to fix it. The problem is when I'm using the line out from my G6 to my JDS Labs Atom with SBX switched off, on the device, sounds directly to my left @ 9 o'clock switch to the right speaker on my headphones (sounds on the right stay on the right). But if I leave SBX turned on, on the device, the left and right channels work as they should. Now if I plug my headphones directly into the G6 and don't use my Atom amp, there are no issues at all with SBX turned on or off. I know I should probably just use the G6 standalone if this is the case but there's got to be a way to get these devices to play nice right? Thanks


G6 Settings...Speakers... Is Apply Headphone Virt to Line/Optical Out enabled?  (By default it's off)


----------



## TheSpur22

Chastity said:


> G6 Settings...Speakers... Is Apply Headphone Virt to Line/Optical Out enabled?  (By default it's off)



Yes it's enabled.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2020)

That's weiiiiird. What are you trying to connect a headset to your amp? Because regular amps don't like headsets that have mic channel in the line.

That usually results in one channel missing and some other shenanigans.


----------



## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's weiiiiird. What are you trying to connect a headset to your amp? Because regular amps don't like headsets that have mic channel in the line.
> 
> That usually results in one channel missing and some other shenanigans.



Not a headset, DT 1990's. I'm running a modmic 5 but it's plugged directly into the G6. The weird thing is that everything is fine when the SBX button is activated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2020)

Hmm, the only thing I can thing of is that one of the cables isn't fully inserted, or is faulty. Check the cables/adapters  connecting the G6 to the Atom. If anything isn't fully inserted, it can lead to things like this happening. The reason SBX works, is because of how dsp crossfeeds both channels, so it is harder to notice.

Sorry, just throwing out ideas. It def sounds like a cable connection issue. The G6 works alone, and I assume so does the Atom. So it has to be the bridge between them, the G6's audio out, or the Atom's audio in. I'd check those things indivually with other gear.

I.e. Connect the Atom to your phone's headphone jack, and test the channels with a youtube video, etc.

Test the G6 audio out with maybe some bookshelf speakers...

Try and rule everything out.


----------



## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hmm, the only thing I can thing of is that one of the cables isn't fully inserted, or is faulty. Check the cables/adapters  connecting the G6 to the Atom. If anything isn't fully inserted, it can lead to things like this happening. The reason SBX works, is because of how dsp crossfeeds both channels, so it is harder to notice.
> 
> Sorry, just throwing out ideas. It def sounds like a cable connection issue.



Yeah that's the first thing I tried as soon as I realized what was happening. I've been using the 3.5mm in so grabbed a 3.5 to RCA to see if that would work but did the same thing. It was working fine with my Astro Mixamp though and I swear it sounds as though its working as intended when SBX is activated because tracking sounds is better than anything I've used before. It really probably shouldn't bug me but once I get fixated on something I can't let it go LoL


----------



## TheSpur22

TheSpur22 said:


> Yeah that's the first thing I tried as soon as I realized what was happening. I've been using the 3.5mm in so grabbed a 3.5 to RCA to see if that would work but did the same thing. It was working fine with my Astro Mixamp though and I swear it sounds as though its working as intended when SBX is activated because tracking sounds is better than anything I've used before. It really probably shouldn't bug me but once I get fixated on something I can't let it go LoL



I decided to do one quick test before giving it a rest for the night and can confirm it's only happening when using the line out. I connected the headphone out to the amp and it worked like it's supposed to. There must be a setting I'm overlooking for the line out?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So it's only happening when using the G6's line out? Did you connect something else to the G6 to make certain? As in another amp or speakers, to the G6's line out.

And it's not happening in Direct Mode? If not, then something is wrong in your software settings. Like virtual speaker shifting or something.


----------



## TheSpur22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So it's only happening when using the G6's line out? Did you connect something else to the G6 to make certain? As in another amp or speakers, to the G6's line out.
> 
> And it's not happening in Direct Mode? If not, then something is wrong in your software settings. Like virtual speaker shifting or something.



Sorry, I'm really quite new at this and don't really have any other hardware to hook up and check. Haven't tried direct mode because as I understand it doesn't work on PS4. It's really not a huge deal if I can't get the Atom to play nice. The G6 sounds great on its own, just thought it was weird what it was doing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 16, 2020)

Direct Mode works with anything, as long as you send it the proper signal. For the PS4, go to the PS4 sound settings and make sure to pick 2channel pcm. Remember, we're not using surround or anything for the test. We just wanna rule out that the G6's audio out is or isn't bad.

All Direct Mode is doing is bypassing any and all G6's internal software enhancements. It's effectively working like a regular dac that doesn't have all those extra options. Like say, a Schiit Modi.


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 17, 2020)

TheSpur22 said:


> Sorry, I'm really quite new at this and don't really have any other hardware to hook up and check. Haven't tried direct mode because as I understand it doesn't work on PS4. It's really not a huge deal if I can't get the Atom to play nice. The G6 sounds great on its own, just thought it was weird what it was doing.


I don't know if this is the cause of your problem or not but SBX presets/profiles are composed of two sub-profiles, one for headphone out, the other for rear line-out. Changing anything in the SBX effects suite for one output's (sub-)profile, whether it be VSS, EQ, Bass boost etc., will not automatically effect the same change for the other output's (sub-)profile. They need to be configured separately. You do this by connecting to PC and then adjusting settings according to the output you have selected in the Sound Blaster Command control panel. By output, I mean the headphone/speaker toggle on the bottom left of the Sound Blaster control panel. Have it on headphones to make adjustments to the active SBX profile for headphones ; toggle it to speakers to adjust the (sub-)profile for the rear line-out. Whatever your final configurations are when you disconnect will be whatever's stored in the memory for the two outputs.
What this ultimately means is that pressing the SBX button on the G6 may engage different effects, a different configuration depending on which output you are using.

For example, for my Sennheisers, I mainly use my G6 as a dac for my hybrid tube amp. I thus have an EQ compensation profile applied to SBX on the rear line-out in order to tame the Sennheiser's treble and bring out more of the bass in addition to applying 20% of the SBX bass boost simulated sub effect. For more casual use though, I don't bother with the Sennheisers and hybrid tube amp and just use the G6 as dac/amp with my Fidelios and AKGs from the G6 headphone out. I don't need EQ or bass boost in this scenario so the headphone out's SBX profile just has VSS engaged with no EQ or bass boost.


----------



## TheSpur22 (Mar 17, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Direct Mode works with anything, as long as you send it the proper signal. For the PS4, go to the PS4 sound settings and make sure to pick 2channel pcm. Remember, we're not using surround or anything for the test. We just wanna rule out that the G6's audio out is or isn't bad.
> 
> All Direct Mode is doing is bypassing any and all G6's internal software enhancements. It's effectively working like a regular dac that doesn't have all those extra options. Like say, a Schiit Modi.



Unfortunately, it appears to be doing this in Direct Mode too. I guess there is something wrong with the line out? Thanks

I also plugged the headphones directly into the line out and it produces the same phenomenon...








SierraMadre said:


> I don't know if this is the cause of your problem or not but SBX presets/profiles are composed of two sub-profiles, one for headphone out, the other for rear line-out. Changing anything in the SBX effects suite for one output's (sub-)profile, whether it be VSS, EQ, Bass boost etc., will not automatically effect the same change for the other output's (sub-)profile. They need to be configured separately. You do this by connecting to PC and then adjusting settings according to the output you have selected in the Sound Blaster Command control panel. By output, I mean the headphone/speaker toggle on the bottom left of the Sound Blaster control panel. Have it on headphones to make adjustments to the active SBX profile for headphones ; toggle it to speakers to adjust the (sub-)profile for the rear line-out. Whatever your final configurations are when you disconnect will be whatever's stored in the memory for the two outputs.
> What this ultimately means is that pressing the SBX button on the G6 may engage different effects, a different configuration depending on which output you are using.
> 
> For example, for my Sennheisers, I mainly use my G6 as a dac for my hybrid tube amp. I thus have an EQ compensation profile applied to SBX on the rear line-out in order to tame the Sennheiser's treble and bring out more of the bass in addition to applying 20% of the SBX bass boost simulated sub effect. For more casual use though, I don't bother with the Sennheisers and hybrid tube amp and just use the G6 as dac/amp with my Fidelios and AKGs from the G6 headphone out. I don't need EQ or bass boost in this scenario so the headphone out's SBX profile just has VSS engaged with no EQ or bass boost.



Thanks and yes I noticed there were profiles for speakers and headphones so I just configured both the same way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 17, 2020)

You just got the G6 right? Ask, and get a replacement. Also, your speaker config is set to 7.1. Set it to 2 channel/stereo. I hope you tested it that way. To rule out every possible possibility.


----------



## TheSpur22 (Mar 17, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You just got the G6 right? Ask, and get a replacement. Also, your speaker config is set to 7.1. Set it to 2 channel/stereo. I hope you tested it that way. To rule out every possible possibility.



Yes tested that way too, thanks for all the advice, I just wanted to exhaust all options before asking for an exchange.
There is one more thing I want to check this evening after work before exchanging. Right now I'm running the Beta firmware 1.16 because I really want the game/chat mix feature. I am going to do a factory reset and update with the official firmware 1.16 to rule that out as well.


----------



## Playstation (Mar 17, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'd do better connecting straight from a source, not the tv.



That's the thing with the PS4 slim. Since they removed the optical port. Unless you consider using USB, there's no other option for connecting directly, not without adapters anyway. Speaking about USB, do you know how much data it carries?

Maybe using an adapter would be better than relying on an older hdtv's optical output.

I guess I could get an hdmi hub/splitter. Then, if they don't make a hdmi to coax cable, I'd need a converter. After all of that, I would expect a noticeable difference in the audio quality. Doubtful.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> That's the thing with the PS4 slim. Since they removed the optical port. Unless you consider using USB, there's no other option for connecting directly, not without adapters anyway. Speaking about USB, do you know how much data it carries?
> 
> Maybe using an adapter would be better than relying on an older hdtv's optical output.
> 
> I guess I could get an hdmi hub/splitter. Then, if they don't make a hdmi to coax cable, I'd need a converter. After all of that, I would expect a noticeable difference in the audio quality. Doubtful.


I mainly meant like a receiver. Many people tend to have AV receivers with their tvs. They'll have better internals.

I say this, even though I'm someone who DOESN'T have a receiver.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

So no optical out on the Xbox Series X - it better well have USB audio then as its just made an awful lot of gaming audio equipment redundant.  I'm guessing its just made a load of Astro gaming gear surplus to requirements for those getting the new console.


----------



## mindbomb

I'm not really a console gamer, but you can just go console to television with hdmi, and then pass the audio through the television's optical out, right? But alternatively, since they are touting improvements to reverb with hardware acceleration, maybe dolby atmos for headphone will actually sound good with some of the newer games.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I mainly meant like a receiver. Many people tend to have AV receivers with their tvs. They'll have better internals.
> 
> I say this, even though I'm someone who DOESN'T have a receiver.


Right. I DID have a receiver at one time. and. If I were to buy a hub/splitter/converter, might as well just buy a receiver that does all of those things, and, probably does them better. Which redirects me back to one of my earlier questions. Short of buying a receiver. How does USB audio compare to something like 16/44? TV optical output?


----------



## Chastity

TheSpur22 said:


> Yes tested that way too, thanks for all the advice, I just wanted to exhaust all options before asking for an exchange.
> There is one more thing I want to check this evening after work before exchanging. Right now I'm running the Beta firmware 1.16 because I really want the game/chat mix feature. I am going to do a factory reset and update with the official firmware 1.16 to rule that out as well.


I just remembered that in Direct Mode, the mic input is disabled.  IIRC.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

mindbomb said:


> I'm not really a console gamer, but you can just go console to television with hdmi, and then pass the audio through the television's optical out, right? But alternatively, since they are touting improvements to reverb with hardware acceleration, maybe dolby atmos for headphone will actually sound good with some of the newer games.



Yea - TV is an option although my TV bracket partially blocks the optical output and when I found a cable that fits, it still isn't working....yet.

Its looking like licensed wireless products or controller audio again for the Series X - just hope the controller is up to driving some half decent headphones.


----------



## SierraMadre (Mar 18, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> I'm not really a console gamer, but you can just go console to television with hdmi, and then pass the audio through the television's optical out, right? But alternatively, since they are touting improvements to reverb with hardware acceleration, maybe dolby atmos for headphone will actually sound good with some of the newer games.


It depends. On newer TVs (past few years) most likely yes. On older TVs going back to around the 2010s, yes too. On not old but not new (early-mid 2010’s to mid-late 2010s, it depends. There was a chunk of several years where there were some licensing concerns / controversy which meant that some manufacturers / some models did not implement passthrough let alone transcoding of Dolby Digital and so optical out on a great many TVs was limited to stereo PCM.


----------



## deadchip12

Chastity said:


> To anyone with G6 crackling/popping:  It's a bug with Windows 10, the DirectSound buffers get borky, and you get error on playback.  Can even lead to output going silent, and requiring a device reset.  (unplug/plug)  IIRC, this is addressed in 20H1.  Easy fix is to alternate Direct Mode and back.  (You can also change DS bit/samplerate default.  This will reset DirectSound too)


Is there any site that documents this issue? If this is Windows 10 issue, why does it only affect the g6 (I tried another usb dac/amp of mine and there's no pop issue)?


----------



## TheSpur22 (Mar 18, 2020)

Apparently my entire issue with the G6 line out and turning the SBX button off, is related to only games on PS4 while using Bitstream Dolby. Tested with Modern Warfare and RB6. Switching to Linear PCM solves the channel switching problem I was having when turning SBX button off. I did some channel tests on YouTube on PS4 using Bitstream Dolby and on PC but could not recreate the problem.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Mar 18, 2020)

*a lot of PS5 3D Audio *

PS5 tech deep dive


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh snap boys and girls, we no longer need surround dsps with the XBSX and PS5!

We'll see how good it is in comparison to what we are used to.


----------



## Fegefeuer

damn, they are going ALL IN with 3D Audio


----------



## Yethal

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SONY LET US UPLOAD OUR CUSTOM HRTFS


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh snap boys and girls, we no longer need surround dsps with the XBSX and PS5!
> 
> We'll see how good it is in comparison to what we are used to.



Well, with the ps5 at least. The dolby atmos comments were possibly a jab at microsoft's approach to still require end users to have something like dolby atmos for headphones if they want good directional audio on headphones.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, MS attempt is very lazy. PS5 has a special hardware designed just for this.


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 18, 2020)

Microsoft has a custom chip for audio too iirc, but I haven't seen them mention anything about hrtf or binaural audio for headphones.


----------



## Yethal

PS4 also has a dedicated 3D audio hardware but the only game to ever utilize it was Thief 4


----------



## mindbomb (Mar 18, 2020)

Idk if that was dedicated hardware or just the ability to reserve one gpu compute unit for audio. I think that's why it never took off, it was just too great a sacrifice to make. Also I think it is probably related to why the ps5's audio chip resembles a gcn compute unit, if they want compatibility with the ps4 pro for audio features on a newer multiplatform title.


----------



## Yethal

mindbomb said:


> Idk if that was dedicated hardware or just the ability to reserve one gpu compute unit for audio. I think that's why it never took off, it was just too great a sacrifice to make. Also I think it is probably related to why the ps5's audio chip resembles a gcn compute unit, if they want compatibility with the ps4 pro for audio features on a newer multiplatform title.


It's dedicated hardware and the reason it never took off is that it wasn't plug'n'play the way fmod is and nobody (except for thief devs) cared enough to implement support for it.


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> PS4 also has a dedicated 3D audio hardware but the only game to ever utilize it was Thief 4


Did Hellblade not use it?
Also, I would have thought it likely used at least in part for the 3D audio modes exclusive to the Platinum wireless headset seen in the highest profile first party titles like Uncharted 4, Horizon, Days Gone, God of War etc. I can't imagine they'd be using a wireless discrete multichannel format and just leaving the headset to do all the processing.


----------



## Yethal

SierraMadre said:


> Did Hellblade not use it?
> Also, I would have thought it likely used at least in part for the 3D audio modes exclusive to the Platinum wireless headset seen in the highest profile first party titles like Uncharted 4, Horizon, Days Gone, God of War etc. I can't imagine they'd be using a wireless discrete multichannel format and just leaving the headset to do all the processing.


Uncharted 4 I'm not sure, rest is rendering in-software


----------



## SierraMadre

Yethal said:


> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SONY LET US UPLOAD OUR CUSTOM HRTFS


Given that they are already implementing that with music streaming on mobile similar to SXFI, can't see why they wouldn't adapt that for PS. 
I did like what he mentioned about fine tuning possibilities, using interactive test cues to dial down positional accuracy.


----------



## deadchip12

Does anyone know how to connect iphone 6s to the sound blasterx g6 via line in? I am chatting with creative support about the pop/crack problem on the g6 and they ask me to try use the g6 as a standalone i.e. connect to an analog audio device like mobile phone. But my iphone 6s doesn’t have optical port.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2020)

You can literally just use an aux cable from the phone to the G6 line in. Its a combo line in/optical in. For testing purposes at least.


Oh wait, iphones don't have headphone jack anymore? This is why I never go Apple. Take away features and call it a benefit.

If your phone doesn't have a jack, you'll have to get one of those Apple dongles that add a jack through the charging port.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can literally just use an aux cable from the phone to the G6 line in. Its a combo line in/optical in. For testing purposes at least.
> 
> 
> Oh wait, iphones don't have headphone jack anymore? This is why I never go Apple. Take away features and call it a benefit.
> ...



Thanks. Iphone 6s still have headphone jack; I did like you said and it works. I just wonder why the volume seems low; I have to increase the vol to nearly the max in both the g6 and the iphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's because line level tends to be near max when using other amplifiers into another amplifier. Headphone Jack's = amplifier, though not very good one. So yes, when connecting amps to headphone jack, you'll almost always max out the volume on the first device, (your phone), and they don't supply a lot of voltage, compared to discrete dacs.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Just hope Sony maintain an optical output and/or USB audio.  Thinking using decent gear on Xbox (with chat function) will be just as hard on Series X as it has been this gen!


----------



## Fegefeuer

My money is on Sony utilizing USB audio and BT and offer various routing options.


----------



## deadchip12

So I have tried listening via line-in method for a few hrs now and there’s no pop. The g6 is connected to a 5V DC 1A power source. So maybe the pop is only there when it’s connected to pc via usb.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

deadchip12 said:


> So I have tried listening via line-in method for a few hrs now and there’s no pop. The g6 is connected to a 5V DC 1A power source. So maybe the pop is only there when it’s connected to pc via usb.


Yeah, then whatever you connected to your G6 must have noisy usb ports. It happens. I had a terrible usb ports on my last laptop. Thankfully it had optical out.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, then whatever you connected to your G6 must have noisy usb ports. It happens. I had a terrible usb ports on my last laptop. Thankfully it had optical out.


Man I’ve tried every single usb port on my pc. And if it is because of the usb port, why does the problem only manifest now? When I first received the g6 everything was fine. I’m still exchanging emails with Creative so let’s see whether they can come up with a solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got a pair of headphones today... 




Oh baby, how you've eluded my grasp for so many years. Saw you on Ebay in great condition for a fraction of the numbers they're going for, simply because of minor marks on one up. Small enough that it would never bother me and can't see other than in one angle in light.

Owner had it for 8 years and it looks well taken care of otherwise, including a perfect cable with no kinks or twists...

I knew I had to have you. So you've arrived. 

How I've missed you so much, D7k.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Haaaaaaaaaa! 

Looking forward to the new review


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> Haaaaaaaaaa!
> 
> Looking forward to the new review


I thought about this. These are basically impossible to find nowadays, and are either in bad shape, or waaaay too expensive. I don't know if I wanna invest time reviewing an old headphone people can't get. :/

They do deserve a re-review in that it simply wasn't a review the first time, but mere gushing and short impressions.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, do it. They deserve a re-review. Doesn't matter if they aren't available. Plenty of stuff is very hard to find by now. People will always be on the lookout for them anyway.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> No, do it. They deserve a re-review. Doesn't matter if they aren't available. Plenty of stuff is very hard to find by now. People will always be on the lookout for them anyway.



Question is will my Dekoni TH900 hybrid pads sound good with them or will they ruin the sound. Because if they work.... OH BABY YES.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2020)

From some testing, it seems the Hybrid pads don't change much, maybe a little less etchy in the treble which is good. Shure 1540 Alcantara suedes definitely add warmth and bass at the expense of some detail clarity.

I THINK the pads that were attached are some cheap aftermarket pleathers because they don't feel like the original pads. The original pleather pads are soft and really comfy. But hot. These are kinda stiff and don't like quite the same. I wouldn't have expected the original pleather pads to last 8 years however, so it's understandable. I know they tended to break up and flake after a few years. I wish I could find some official stock pads though.

So looks like I'm more than likely gonna stick to the hybrids, thankfully.

In short session, the bass isn't quite like I remember. I mean the quality is what I expected, which is separated from the midrange and treble (which is something very unique), but it doesn't have the tickle my ears rumble I remember from before. Might be a pad thing, or I dunno. It does sound like the D7000 I remember otherwise.


The soundstage is as huge as I remember.

I'll have to game with them to see if it was the gaming that caused the tickle factor.

It could also be that the Magni 3 isn't the Lyr and Audio GD amp I used to have, so it may not be as thick sounding....


What's weird is how quickly the bass went from...hmm a little less than I remember, to, oh there it is. It seems he hadn't used them in so long, the drivers needed to loosen up a bit or something.


----------



## DenverW

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I thought about this. These are basically impossible to find nowadays, and are either in bad shape, or waaaay too expensive. I don't know if I wanna invest time reviewing an old headphone people can't get. :/
> 
> They do deserve a re-review in that it simply wasn't a review the first time, but mere gushing and short impressions.



A possible alternative with similar characteristics to review would be the EMU Teaks.  I’d love to see it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2020)

Listened to Synthic Epiphany - Submerged, and found the bass tickling my right ear. So hmmm.... they might be back!

edit: Seller just told me he forgot he had the D7000 had Lawton pads equipped, and will be sending me the stock pads. Thank goodness.




DenverW said:


> A possible alternative with similar characteristics to review would be the EMU Teaks.  I’d love to see it!


I really wanted to try these as well. If I have any chances, I'd love to. I was very close to buying them at one point, but then people said they didn't sound like the D7000 and I got scared.


----------



## DenverW

I wish I could compare them to the denon 5k or 7k, but I haven’t heard them.  I have owned both the fostex ebony and mahogany in the past, and prefer the teaks to those.  I felt the fostex x00 had more bass quantity, but that it overpowered other aspects of the headphones and became more muddy overall than the teaks.  That being said, I enjoyed all three overall.

there is a comparison post by Tyll for the teaks, denons and fostex our there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 19, 2020)

DenverW said:


> I wish I could compare them to the denon 5k or 7k, but I haven’t heard them.  I have owned both the fostex ebony and mahogany in the past, and prefer the teaks to those.  I felt the fostex x00 had more bass quantity, but that it overpowered other aspects of the headphones and became more muddy overall than the teaks.  That being said, I enjoyed all three overall.
> 
> there is a comparison post by Tyll for the teaks, denons and fostex our there.


As much as I enjoyed the TH900, they weren't for me. I was very close to getting some X00s too, but then heard about the Teak being better, and was waiting on a Drop for those. I'll ask Drop if they are willing to send them out.

Imagine I prefer them over the D7K, LOL.

One thing I will say, is that my tastes HAVE evolved past the D7K phase. I mean, I still love them, but I think nowadays, I find a preference to things like the better planars out there. It's crazy. Though I'll have to get the stock pads and see if they change my mind.

Edit; Ooh, I didn't realize that Emu was a subsidiary of Creative. INTERESTING. If I can't get Drop to send them to me, maybe my Creative contact could make it happen.


----------



## DenverW

I made an error when I mentioned the comparison post, he does not compare the teaks with the 7k.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, Tyll prefers the D5K over the D7K, so it's understandable. But I've only had experience with the 7K, TH600 and TH900.

So I went and ordered the Dekoni attenuation rings for Fostex headphones. I feel I might need those with the hybrid pads, because the opening is much larger than the stock Denon pads, which I feel may be altering things more than I'd like.


----------



## Chastity

Fegefeuer said:


> No, do it. They deserve a re-review. Doesn't matter if they aren't available. Plenty of stuff is very hard to find by now. People will always be on the lookout for them anyway.


Should I review my Sony MDR-SA5000?


----------



## Chastity

I just wanted to point out that the Dekoni Elite Velour pads help widen and improve the soundstage of the DT-1990, and makes it easier to differentiate Side L/R and Rear L/R, and Front L/R now present themselves more forward, compared to the A-pads or B-pads.  Probably due to the fact the pads are at least twice as thick, and therefore move the driver back futher from the ear, much like my Sony MDR-SA5000, which are recessed back, and angled.


----------



## RomalusIV

A lot of really fantastic reviews! With all the choice it's almost stressful trying to decide on a next purchase. Is it always better to go with a dedicated headphone + modmic? 

I used to be really into high end audio, but it's been a long time and the inrush of gaming headset options and the unlimited headphone + mic options is a lot to take in before deciding.


----------



## Chastity (Mar 21, 2020)

RomalusIV said:


> A lot of really fantastic reviews! With all the choice it's almost stressful trying to decide on a next purchase. Is it always better to go with a dedicated headphone + modmic?
> 
> I used to be really into high end audio, but it's been a long time and the inrush of gaming headset options and the unlimited headphone + mic options is a lot to take in before deciding.


The headphone + modmic option opens you up to an insane amount of potential combos.  There are some notable units that come as headsets, like the Audeze Mobius and the Beyerdynamic MMX-300, which is essentially their DT-770 with a mic.  Tho I think a Sundara + modmic would be pretty killer.  I use a DT-1990 + Dekoni Elite Velour + Modmic Uni + G6 + Asgard 3.  (Damn that custom list is getting long)

There are some notable options that are more affordable.  Philips X2HR + VModa Boom Pro mic (or Beyerdynamic's add-on mic) would be an under $200 solution.


----------



## RomalusIV

Chastity said:


> The headphone + modmic option opens you up to an insane amount of potential combos.  There are some notable units that come as headsets, like the Audeze Mobius and the Beyerdynamic MMX-300, which is essentially their DT-770 with a mic.  Tho I think a Sundara + modmic would be pretty killer.  I use a DT-1990 + Dekoni Elite Velour + Modmic Uni + G6 + Asgard 3.  (Damn that custom list is getting long)
> 
> There are some notable options that are more affordable.  Philips X2HR + VModa Boom Pro mic (or Beyerdynamic's add-on mic) would be an under $200 solution.



I definitely appreciate it, I'm not opposed to spending some money for a high quality solution. I had a pair of HiFiMan HE400's that I liked a lot, so I'll definitely have to look more at the Sundaras and see if I can try those out locally anywhere. 

With so many good options though, analysis paralysis sort of sets in


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2020)

So the Dekoni attenuation rings that come for Dekoni 's Fostex pad alternative, really were the trick to bring back the bass on the D7K. I'm still waiting on the stock pads to arrive, but yeah, the Fostex TH900 hybrid pads have a large circular opening which the D7K weren't intended to have. The attenuation closes off the opening to stock pad opening sizes, and it focuses the bass and sound as intended.

This was more like the D7K I was expecting.

It'll be interesting comparing the hybrid pads to the stock pads.

I may have to get the X00 hybrid pads since they have an oval opening like the Denon pads. Perhaps to bring it even closer to what I expected. I'll wait until I have assesed the stock pads, if/when they arrive.

Did not like the Lawton pads that came with the set I bought. Killed the bass a bit. This is precisely why I always said I would never mod the D7000. It takes away the things that make it unique. For what? To make it sound like so many other headphones, no thanks.


----------



## Vader2k

Creative now has a coupon for $50 off all the products in the SXFI line:

https://us.creative.com/sale/
Coupon Code: *SXFIMOVIES*


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok so the stock pads came in. I feel the Dekoni hybrid with the attenuation rings are close enough to the stock pads, so that's what I'm gonna be going with for the D7000. I'm a little miffed that the hybrid pads I have are for the TH900 and have a large circular hole. I really don't wanna spend so much money on TH-X00 pads with the oval holes similar to the D7000 pads. Eventually when I have spare funds, I''ll probably do it. Right now, the way things are going, I don't want to spend another dime. Who knows what's gonna happen in a month or two.


----------



## Playstation

Is there any reason to upgrade the stock pads on the X2's?


----------



## SierraMadre

Playstation said:


> Is there any reason to upgrade the stock pads on the X2's?


Not unless you have comfort issues.


----------



## no00wa

I currently have been using a AKG K712 PRO for a while now which is hooked up to a MAGNI 3 which in turn is connected to a Creative Sound Blaster ZxR.

The sound is good, but it's not "amazing". I remember when i used to have a Sennheiser PC363D i was immediately wowed by the sound (with virtual surround). I remember thinking "what amazing experience can I get if we spend even more money!". Unfortunately the K712's have not yet given me that same feeling.

I'm wondering if there's some magic setting that needs to be on as everyone thinks they are so good.

Would different earpads upgrade the experience without loosing positioning? Is there anything else that would help me make these sound amazing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

no00wa said:


> I currently have been using a AKG K712 PRO for a while now which is hooked up to a MAGNI 3 which in turn is connected to a Creative Sound Blaster ZxR.
> 
> The sound is good, but it's not "amazing". I remember when i used to have a Sennheiser PC363D i was immediately wowed by the sound (with virtual surround). I remember thinking "what amazing experience can I get if we spend even more money!". Unfortunately the K712's have not yet given me that same feeling.
> 
> ...


The K712 is considerably better, IMHO. But perhaps you're ust too used to the other sound.


----------



## no00wa

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The K712 is considerably better, IMHO. But perhaps you're ust too used to the other sound.


Probably, it's been a while since I had the sennheiser's too.

You think new earpads (dekoni?) could help? What would be an upgrade over the akg k712 pro's in terms of a whole new headset?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 27, 2020)

no00wa said:


> Probably, it's been a while since I had the sennheiser's too.
> 
> You think new earpads (dekoni?) could help? What would be an upgrade over the akg k712 pro's in terms of a whole new headset?


I'd be wary about swapping pads. It can negatively affect the sound. Perhaps they're just not for you.

As for an upgrade, I don't know what your tastes are so I can't point you in a direction. There's too many sound signatures to just steer you one way.


----------



## Batmanjl

Thank you so much for this list! And the time and effort put into it, I have Ak 240s, and super luci 668bs at the moment and looking to upgrade, I’m torn betweeen the 599s and 990pro, both are on sale right now. Which would be better for pure directional accuracy? I play competitive FPS maiming, Overwatch, destiny,cod etc


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2020)

Batmanjl said:


> Thank you so much for this list! And the time and effort put into it, I have Ak 240s, and super luci 668bs at the moment and looking to upgrade, I’m torn betweeen the 599s and 990pro, both are on sale right now. Which would be better for pure directional accuracy? I play competitive FPS maiming, Overwatch, destiny,cod etc



The 599 would be more for that purpose. Both are good, but the 990 is more aimed for fun, casual gaming. 599 would do competitive better. This is an assumption based on that the 599 look like the original 598, which I reviewed. I have not heard the 599, but am making the assumption it's just a 598 with the old color scheme, as the 598 don't come in that color anymore.

Looking at Rtings comparison, it does look that they sound nearly the same, and looks like differences could be driver variation or just subtle differences overall.

So yeah, I'll stand by what I said.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> Thank you so much for this list! And the time and effort put into it, I have Ak 240s, and super luci 668bs at the moment and looking to upgrade, I’m torn between the 599s and 990pro, both are on sale right now. Which would be better for pure directional accuracy? I play competitive FPS maiming, Overwatch, destiny,cod etc


It might help to know what exactly you plug the headphones into?
(on-board audio or sound card or DAC/amp, etc)
Both headphones are liked by FPS gamers.
The DT990 is strong bass/treble, which slightly overshadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
HD599 would be more balanced and not as "fiesta sounding" as the DT990.
The DT990 would be more power demanding, then the HD599.
Me, I would rather have the HD599, over the DT990 (personal preference).


----------



## shaolin95

Guess I should share this quick preliminary opinion comparing the Blaster X3 and the GSX 1000

Now that I have both the GSX 1000 and the X3 side by side first of all I want to express my disappointment with the GSX 1000 and the problems to update the firmware. Here I thought Creative software tends to be buggy but at least it can freaking connect to download updates!
I didnt realize how small the GSX is, I love the design and colors and REALLY in a biased way, I wanted to prefer it BUT the X3 just sounds a bit richer as a pure dac/amp when driving my easy to drive Fideliox X2HR. 
When it comes to gaming surround, well first you have a lot more options to make the sound fit your taste and I find SBX as good if not better than the GSX1000 in positioning when playing COD MW or CSGO. You even have profiles for those games if you don't want to tweak yourself. 
Super X-Fi is a bit of a disappointment at this time for what I was expecting. Sure it does sound a lot bigger in terms of soundstage and for some sources, it could be fun but it has zero tweaking options and just seems to have too much echo for me. I know the idea is to mimic speakers in a room but that is one very empty room with all that echo, plus I have acoustic treatments in my HT room to MINIMIZE echos. Thus not sure why I would like to mimic that into my sound card, or at least sure we can add some but let us tweak it.
 Anyways, as much as I like the look and design of the GSX1000 and I will continue to test for the next few days, right now, I am leaning towards the X3. 
I also wonder why the GSX is more expensive with older tech, fewer features and lower specs at least in terms of formats. Anyways, that is my current overview..more to come.


----------



## Batmanjl

PurpleAngel said:


> It might help to know what exactly you plug the headphones into?
> (on-board audio or sound card or DAC/amp, etc)
> Both headphones are liked by FPS gamers.
> The DT990 is strong bass/treble, which slightly overshadows the mids, but the mids are clear.
> ...



Youre right, i apologize, this is aimed towards PC gaming, i have a z390 aorus master MB, (125dB SNR AMP-UP Audio with ALC1220 & High-End ESS SABRE 9118 DAC), 
i also have an asus strix DLX soundcard sitting in my desk drawer that i stopped using, as well as an FiiO EK10 laying around. does that help?


----------



## Papakitou

Hello, i have Asus Xonar STX and DT 770 Pro 80.
In gaming i mostly use these settings. https://prnt.sc/rox7tn 
with this EQ https://prnt.sc/rox805

Today i installed APO with Hesuvi and im trying to find a good combo..
Is there any suggestion? 
I can hear crap in Modern warfare


----------



## Batmanjl

Also for competitive FPS  what’s a better setup, fiio ek10, Strix raid dlx or mobo audio?(z390 aorus)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My stance is having virtual surround is best, so I'd spend more for something like a Creative G6.

I dunno if the mobo or soundcard have any virtual surround. If they don't, I'd assume they're both on par with the E10K, or at the very least the soundcard would be.

Typically, you want to avoid mobo sound, but perhaps that one has a decent shielding from system noise.


----------



## shaolin95

I agree SBX is great for competitive gaming which what I am using with the Blaster X3 (the winner of my battle of X3 vs GSX 1000). Next is the Mobius  coming up to see how it compares to the X3.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

For those with a Mobius, I recommend surround at 40%. It can get a bit reverbery at higher levels.


----------



## Batmanjl

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My stance is having virtual surround is best, so I'd spend more for something like a Creative G6.
> 
> I dunno if the mobo or soundcard have any virtual surround. If they don't, I'd assume they're both on par with the E10K, or at the very least the soundcard would be.
> 
> Typically, you want to avoid mobo sound, but perhaps that one has a decent shielding from system noise.


When you say virtual surround, u meaning the EQ or the “mixing” element?  I’m not sure how to describe or explain which one does or doesn’t.

the mobo has “

125dB SNR AMP-UP Audio with ALC1220 & High-End ESS SABRE 9118 DAC with WIMA audio capacitor

while the sound card has sonic studio for software. The mobo just uses Realtek interface


----------



## Batmanjl

Also the strix raid dlx is 7.1**


----------



## econaut

Thinking about upgrading my K7XX to HD800S for gaming (gaming only).

Is my Schiit Hel powerful enough?

Maximum Power, 300 ohms: 200mW RMS
The reason why I am asking:
This youtuber says he has distorted bass with 800S only on low "quality power". "On Schiit Hel the bass response didn‘t really seem as resolving and as clear..."

What do you think?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 31, 2020)

The HD800S definitely has a high impedance spike, and I'd probably recommend something better than the Hel for it. I think the spike reaches like 700ohms in the bass. So yeah...not an impedance range I think the Hel can truly output with ease.

I mean don't get me wrong, the Hel will reach high volumes, but I'd definitely get something with spare power on tap. Personally if I was getting an HD800s, I'd only get one if I have at least an Asgard 3. Though a Magni 3+ or Heresy would do ok I think.


----------



## Papakitou

Papakitou said:


> Hello, i have Asus Xonar STX and DT 770 Pro 80.
> In gaming i mostly use these settings. https://prnt.sc/rox7tn
> with this EQ https://prnt.sc/rox805
> 
> ...


Anyone any advice? 
@Mad Lust Envy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Papakitou said:


> Anyone any advice?
> @Mad Lust Envy


I honestly don't know. I haven't use hesuvi and that apo in a long time, and so I can't guess what is wrong with your setup, or what to use.

That and I'm not sure what it is you think you would be able to hear in the game.

At least make sure the sound preset on Modern Warfare is NOT set to headphones.


----------



## Papakitou

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I honestly don't know. I haven't use hesuvi and that apo in a long time, and so I can't guess what is wrong with your setup, or what to use.
> 
> That and I'm not sure what it is you think you would be able to hear in the game.
> 
> At least make sure the sound preset on Modern Warfare is NOT set to headphones.


Thanks. This game has very loud everything, you cant hear footsteps easily.
I will buy another headset . open back, when i will be able to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Papakitou said:


> Thanks. This game has very loud everything, you cant hear footsteps easily.
> I will buy another headset . open back, when i will be able to.


I dont think that would fix your problems. The game's audio mixing may just be tuned where they don't WANT you to hear footsteps. If I remember correctly, a patch lowered that kind of audio, since when the game first came out, footsteps were very loud and people complained.


----------



## Symstic

@Mad Lust Envy Hey, firstly sorry for my bad English.Thank you for this topic and all review. I pleasure reading and getting information. I enjoy playing competitive (Rainbow six siege, Escape from Tarkov, Cod MW etc.) games. I am using Samson SR850 with Sound Blaster Z right now but not satisfied with this combination. Have a lot of problems about distance and direction estimation with the opponent. I tried everything. I use only stereo this headphone. Sound Blaster pro studio all settings (Surround, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart volume, Scout mode and Equalizer) off and windows configure speakers is stereo. am i using a bad headphone or source ? My settings is wrong ?  Can you tell me what am i doing wrong ? i change my settings or equipment ? I would be happy if you help me. I hope you will stay healthy during these difficult days of the world.


----------



## Batmanjl

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dont think that would fix your problems. The game's audio mixing may just be tuned where they don't WANT you to hear footsteps. If I remember correctly, a patch lowered that kind of audio, since when the game first came out, footsteps were very loud and people complained.


hey mad any insight to my above post?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Symstic said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Hey, firstly sorry for my bad English.Thank you for this topic and all review. I pleasure reading and getting information. I enjoy playing competitive (Rainbow six siege, Escape from Tarkov, Cod MW etc.) games. I am using Samson SR850 with Sound Blaster Z right now but not satisfied with this combination. Have a lot of problems about distance and direction estimation with the opponent. I tried everything. I use only stereo this headphone. Sound Blaster pro studio all settings (Surround, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart volume, Scout mode and Equalizer) off and windows configure speakers is stereo. am i using a bad headphone or source ? My settings is wrong ?  Can you tell me what am i doing wrong ? i change my settings or equipment ? I would be happy if you help me. I hope you will stay healthy during these difficult days of the world.



Since you game in stereo, you're severely limited on direction estimation. As I said all throughout the guide and thread, I'm someone who uses virtual surround, which greatlky helps me estimate what direction sounds are coming from. So you might wanna start there, by enabling surround to like 67% or more. Also making sure it is set to 5.1 or 7.1. And making sure games do NOT have headphone in the sound option menu turned on. That's all I can help you with. I have no experience with the Samson so I can't say it's good or bad.



Batmanjl said:


> hey mad any insight to my above post?



I don't know about eithger the mobo or soundcard to say if you have surround. You say it has 7.1, but that doesn't tell me if it has a headphone option to turn 7.1 to a surround feature for headphones.


----------



## Batmanjl

understood, but what would that look like? Is windows sonic or dts for headphones worth enabling?


----------



## illram (Apr 1, 2020)

Papakitou said:


> Anyone any advice?
> @Mad Lust Envy


For footsteps in Modern Warfare, switch to “boost low” in the game audio settings.

It will really boost footsteps but it will also lower the audio quality for everything else (makes it bloated and muddy). But the footsteps boost is so huge I suffer through it.

MW audio is really bad.

(I really wish the forum upgrade didn’t ruin all my thread email notifications!)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> You're right, i apologize, this is aimed towards PC gaming, i have a z390 aorus master MB, (125dB SNR AMP-UP Audio with ALC1220 & High-End ESS SABRE 9118 DAC),
> i also have an Asus Strix DLX sound card sitting in my desk drawer that i stopped using, as well as an FiiO EK10 laying around. does that help?


The FiiO E10K does not provide any headphone surround sound features.
Your on-board audio, Realtek ALC 1220, would use whatever headphone surround sound functions provided by the Realtek software.
For $30 you can get Creatives Sound Blaster X-Fi MB3 software, which comes with Creative's SBX headphone surround sound, which will run off the Realtek DSP chip (ALC1220).
https://software.store.creative.com/software/mb3
Me, I would disable the ALC 1220, in the BIOS.
And install the Asus Strix DLX sound card and try Asus Sonic Studio's headphone surround sound feature, for FPS gaming.



Batmanjl said:


> understood, but what would that look like? Is windows sonic or dts for headphones worth enabling?


DTS for headphone?


----------



## Batmanjl

PurpleAngel said:


> DTS for headphone?



had to look, dolby atmos i mean im sorry, and bypass alc all together? ill go back to it, it came out of my x99 build. the mb3 software works out the box? (in a sense)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> had to look, dolby atmos i mean im sorry, and bypass alc all together? ill go back to it, it came out of my x99 build. the mb3 software works out the box? (in a sense)



Not 100% sure what your asking about the MB3 software works out of the box?
You buy the X-Fi MB3, install it in your Windows 10 and it should come with a Control Panel for enabling and adjust the SBX Headphone surround sound function.


----------



## Batmanjl

PurpleAngel said:


> Not 100% sure what your asking about the MB3 software works out of the box?
> You buy the X-Fi MB3, install it in your Windows 10 and it should come with a Control Panel for enabling and adjust the SBX Headphone surround sound function.



Ok got what you mean. but you would prefer sonic studio/strix raid over that option?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> Ok got what you mean. but you would prefer sonic studio/strix raid over that option?



I'm not into FPS gaming, more into C&C G/ZH.
The Asus sound card is free to try.
I have a personal preference for Asus sound cards.
If you do not like Sonic studios, then try the X-FI MB3.


----------



## Papakitou

illram said:


> For footsteps in Modern Warfare, switch to “boost low” in the game audio settings.
> 
> It will really boost footsteps but it will also lower the audio quality for everything else (makes it bloated and muddy). But the footsteps boost is so huge I suffer through it.
> 
> ...


You mean boost high? Im running high ..
Will try boost low, but i think boost high is for footsteps


----------



## illram

Boost low.

Boost high worked in prior titles but boost low is better in this one.


----------



## quinnaay

Hey guys, can someone recommend me a pair of headphones and mic for the PS4 Pro?
I currently have Astro A40s and there deteriorating and it had become apparent that there are much better out there. 

I can use the wireless mix amp if it's any use to a suggested set up, budget of around £150 hopefully is enough for It ?

Thanks


----------



## Papakitou

illram said:


> Boost low.
> 
> Boost high worked in prior titles but boost low is better in this one.


will try out. Any other EQ  default?


----------



## mindbomb

econaut said:


> Thinking about upgrading my K7XX to HD800S for gaming (gaming only).
> 
> Is my Schiit Hel powerful enough?
> 
> ...


Probably unrelated to power. Realistically, the headphones only draw less than 1mw most of the time.


----------



## Xqst

To all you European audiophiles, the x2hr are on sale for 89.99£ on Spanish Amazon. 
And for those, like me, who cannot find the HD 599 anywhere, German Amazon has them for around 140€ with express delivery!


----------



## stefan416 (Apr 3, 2020)

Hi Fellow Head-Fiers,

Ive been driving myself crazy for the the last week on what new pair of headphones to get for Xbox and music. Started off wanting the SHP9500 after reading everywhere how great they are for the price. Then came across the X2HR whic hwas basically the "same thing" but better. I then came across a whole plethora of other options from Beyer, AT Sennheiser and was thinking the HD58x would be awesome as theyre supposed to basically be a 660S.

I was about to pull the trigger on the HD58x but then looked into them further. It seems they have a terribly small soundstage which doesnt sound like it will be very immersive. I mainly play Battlefield 5, COD, Apex non-competatively so pin pointing a squirrel fart at 100 yrds with zero bass isnt what Im after exactly. Rather a great sounding headphone with good soundstage and imaging that. I hear the HD800s is one of the best so something in that vein I guess? Basically want to feel like Im in the map with accurate 3D sound.

 I dont have an amp other than a Denon receiver and would either use that, xbox controller and phone. I've always been someone who enjoys good sounding headphones,  and think options like Beats are way to bassy and meh. I used to have a pair of Shure SE535 IEMs which I unfortunately lost.

Being in Canada Im looking to spend less than or equal to what the HD58X cost.

In the end, are the HD58x a waste of 70% of the time they will be used to play open map FPS games like Battlefield which I would assume would benefit from big soundstage and great imaging?


----------



## Chastity

@stefan416

The HD800S was ranked #1 by Joshua Velour for gaming. ($1600)  A very close second is the DT-1990. ($410 @ Newegg)  You decide.


----------



## PurpleAngel

stefan416 said:


> I've been driving myself crazy for the the last week on what new pair of headphones to get for Xbox and music. Started off wanting the SHP9500 after reading everywhere how great they are for the price. Then came across the X2HR which was basically the "same thing" but better. I then came across a whole plethora of other options from Beyer, AT Sennheiser and was thinking the HD58x would be awesome as they are supposed to basically be a 660S.
> I was about to pull the trigger on the HD58x but then looked into them further. It seems they have a terribly small soundstage which doesn't sound like it will be very immersive. I mainly play Battlefield 5, COD, Apex non-competitively so pin pointing a squirrel fart at 100 yards with zero bass isnt what Im after exactly. Rather a great sounding headphone with good soundstage and imaging that. I hear the HD800s is one of the best so something in that vein I guess? Basically want to feel like I'm in the map with accurate 3D sound.
> I don't have an amp other than a Denon receiver and would either use that, xbox controller and phone. I've always been someone who enjoys good sounding headphones,  and think options like Beats are way to bassy and meh. I used to have a pair of Shure SE535 IEMs which I unfortunately lost.
> Being in Canada Im looking to spend less than or equal to what the HD58X cost.
> In the end, are the HD58x a waste of 70% of the time they will be used to play open map FPS games like Battlefield which I would assume would benefit from big soundstage and great imaging?


For over all audio quality, I prefer the HD58X, over the Philips SHP9500.
Also the 150-Ohm HD58X should do better plugged into a receiver (Denon), then the SHP9500, because of impedance issues.
Soundstage or surround sound, can't say which is better, as I'm not into FPS gaming.


----------



## econaut

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The HD800S definitely has a high impedance spike, and I'd probably recommend something better than the Hel for it. I think the spike reaches like 700ohms in the bass. So yeah...not an impedance range I think the Hel can truly output with ease.
> 
> I mean don't get me wrong, the Hel will reach high volumes, but I'd definitely get something with spare power on tap. Personally if I was getting an HD800s, I'd only get one if I have at least an Asgard 3. Though a Magni 3+ or Heresy would do ok I think.



I got an HD800S here now for testing with Hel and Jotunheim. Since I don't have an XLR cable both amps are not powerful enough single ended and bass quantity is lacking. Can I expect (much) more bass quantity with the Asgard 3?

Just getting an XLR cable would be easier, of course, but the Jot is normally in my office and the HD800S is for gaming at home. Besides other reasons like synergy etc.


----------



## stefan416

Chastity said:


> @stefan416
> 
> The HD800S was ranked #1 by Joshua Velour for gaming. ($1600)  A very close second is the DT-1990. ($410 @ Newegg)  You decide.



I'll have to check the 1990s out then as I wasnt initially looking at them. Still above my price range though.




PurpleAngel said:


> For over all audio quality, I prefer the HD58X, over the Philips SHP9500.
> Also the 150-Ohm HD58X should do better plugged into a receiver (Denon), then the SHP9500, because of impedance issues.
> Soundstage or surround sound, can't say which is better, as I'm not into FPS gaming.




Yeah I figured as much. How can a headphone that costs so little be as nice as a 200 set


----------



## Grymok

To the people with a Mobius headset: What is your thoughts, that it can't do bluetooth/wireless and microphone at the same time?
I know wireless isn't the best of the best for gaming, but it's really convenient.
I tried them and when I realized I couldn't use the mic while on bluetooth I returned them. It pretty much defeat a wireless gaming headset, no?

Have anyone tried the new Creative SXFI Theater headset, they're equipped with 2.4 GHz wifi signal for minimal latency, USB-C and up to 30 hours of usage.
Any thoughts on this one?


----------



## mindbomb

econaut said:


> I got an HD800S here now for testing with Hel and Jotunheim. Since I don't have an XLR cable both amps are not powerful enough single ended and bass quantity is lacking. Can I expect (much) more bass quantity with the Asgard 3?
> 
> Just getting an XLR cable would be easier, of course, but the Jot is normally in my office and the HD800S is for gaming at home. Besides other reasons like synergy etc.



I feel like you aren't grasping what the power spec represents. Even if you got a more powerful amp, you would be throttling it to the same power output as your other amps with the volume controls. Because the limiting factor is that you've reached a comfortable listening level, not that you've maxed out what the amp is capable of.


----------



## illram

FWIW as far as "affordable" HD800S amps that sound great, iFi's Blacklabel and Micro iDSD are both pretty great and have all the connectivity options you need in a gaming setup. (Other than a mic...)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2020)

Grymok said:


> To the people with a Mobius headset: What is your thoughts, that it can't do bluetooth/wireless and microphone at the same time?
> I know wireless isn't the best of the best for gaming, but it's really convenient.
> I tried them and when I realized I couldn't use the mic while on bluetooth I returned them. It pretty much defeat a wireless gaming headset, no?
> 
> ...


Why would you wanna use the Mobius wirelessly with a mic? The Mobius doesn't have low latency. The Bluetooth wasn't made for gaming. The wireless option was mainly made as a bonus feature, not the main intention. USB mode is the Mobius main method of sounds reproduction.

You don't wanna use any headphone wirelessly for gaming unless the bluetooth has Apt-X low latency or something similar.


----------



## Grymok

Yeah that was what I found out.
Wanted a wireless headset, gaming compatible, just to try it out, and was a little depressed the Mobius didn't achieve that, even though the sound is INSANE.
I'm still thinking of buying it and use it with cable, just because the sound and bass was so nice.

But the only real wireless headsets i've found is the steelseries arctis 7 pro wireless and creative SXFI Theater, that seems to be decent.
Got the steelseries through my work, and it's an okay headset, but miss some quality in the sound though.


----------



## Obeimi (Apr 5, 2020)

So I have read loads of posts and reviews, I need to find the best headphone for competitive FPS.
I have at the moment sennheiser gsp 500 + JDS EL AMP + JDS EL DAC.
I'm not happy about it, yeah I can pinpoint the enemies and the shooting but I believe I can improve if I switch to a more focused gaming headphone. There are times where my duo partner can hear crap that I miss or I don't hear that well.

My research have narrowed down to: AD700x - ADG1x - K701/2 - DT1990pro - HD660s (not so sure of this one), I have not listed the DT990 because for what I have read it's not 100% focused on competitive fps but it can be a nice headphone even for single player... but I'm not interested in that.
Price is not a problem but still I don't like to throw money away, I'll list the money I'll have to spend for each headphone based on my country etc.

AD700x: new 190 Eur - used 163 eur
ADG1x: new 299 eur - used 136 eur
K701: new 131 eur
K702; new 149 eur
DT1990pro: new 439 eur
HD660s: new 429 eur

So with the DAC and AMP I have and based on the use I make of the headphone: ONLY COMPETITIVE FPS, I don't care about anything else, I have different headphone that I use for music or movies, what in your experience is the best? and why?

I was thinking of buying ad700x or the K702. The latter is less expensive and for what I have read is super good, but has few differences from the ad700x, another hassle is the modmic, In my country it's quite expensive and so the ADG1x become really interesting at the used price I have found them on Amazon... at the same time I'm not interested in buying a pair of headphone that will make almost no difference from the gsp 500.
I'm a bit  lost, I tried to search for comparison between all these Headphone and I can't really find a clear answer. Hope some of you can shed  some light on my doubts.
Thank you


----------



## Chastity

Obeimi said:


> So I have read loads of posts and reviews, I need to find the best headphone for competitive FPS.
> I have at the moment sennheiser gsp 500 + JDS EL AMP + JDS EL DAC.
> I'm not happy about it, yeah I can pinpoint the enemies and the shooting but I believe I can improve if I switch to a more focused gaming headphone. There are times where my duo partner can hear crap that I miss or I don't hear that well.
> 
> ...


1)  The DT-1990 Pro are just good all-rounder, not just gaming.  I have that + Modmic myself.
2) Have you also looked at the MMX-300?


----------



## Batmanjl

Using the Strix dlx, is worth upgrading my ak 240 or superlux 668b to the hd599 se? For competitive FPS or would getting the creative g6 be a better route?


----------



## Obeimi

Chastity said:


> 1)  The DT-1990 Pro are just good all-rounder, not just gaming.  I have that + Modmic myself.
> 2) Have you also looked at the MMX-300?



Ok so I'm scratching the DT-1990, I don't care about all-rounder, I want the best for FPS competitive gaming, headset doesn't have to be fun/engaging etc. they must deliver the best position accuracy audio that's the only thing I care.
I'm not interested in closed type of headset so nope MMX-300 is not an headset I would buy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 6, 2020)

Then just get an AD700x or whatever they're up to now, or the K701/2. You're not all the sudden going to get a serious improvement over those for details in gaming and positional accuracy. You don't even need to sacrifice so much just to get that teeny bit more that those two provide either. I'd be just as likely to recommend a K601 over those. Another reason why I got rid of scores. I should've got rid of ALL the scores.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Agree. Just get the AD700x and focus on the gaming.


----------



## Obeimi

what about the ADG1x ? they have an awesome mic and so it would save me the hassle and cost of a modmic. anyone has direct experience comparing this headset to AD700x or AKG701/702? Can't really find any review that compare these headset.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Then just get an AD700x or whatever they're up to now, or the K701/2. You're not all the sudden going to get a serious improvement over those for details in gaming and positional accuracy. You don't even need to sacrifice so much just to get that teeny bit more that those two provide either. I'd be just as likely to recommend a K601 over those. Another reason why I got rid of scores. I should've got rid of ALL the scores.



K601 are discontinued, so hard to get a hold of it. I had the K712pro in the past, beautiful headset but I wasn't impressed with it on the gaming part, I was getting beaten by hyperx cloud II on hearing steps a lot of time.
I have another pair of headset for playing single player games or when I want to be engaged in listening not in a competitive manner.

So AD700x or K701/2 or ADG1x? I would sacrifice a little bit only if I could find an headset with a mic on it so I can avoid the modmic, but only if the sacrifice is just a little bit.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The K712 and K701/2 sound quite different mainly due to the bass being more upfront. They're two sides of ther samne coin, but one focuses on warmth and being more casual friendly, while the other is a surgical tool of precision. I'd definitely check into the K701/2, even if you experienced the K712.

And sorry, I meant the K612, which is essentially the K601. It's very focused on neutrality and details.


----------



## Obeimi (Apr 6, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The K712 and K701/2 sound quite different mainly due to the bass being more upfront. They're two sides of ther samne coin, but one focuses on warmth and being more casual friendly, while the other is a surgical tool of precision. I'd definitely check into the K701/2, even if you experienced the K712.
> 
> And sorry, I meant the K612, which is essentially the K601. It's very focused on neutrality and details.



if you had to choose between the k612/K701/K702 what would you choose? I never heard any of those three and the review online are contradicting, some says the K701 sound better (gaming wise) then the 702, some other says they are more or less the same and the K702 are more comfortable... Pricewise K612 115 euro and the K701-702 20-30 euro more. So madlust you have no love for the AD700x or the ADG1x?


----------



## Chastity

@Obeimi   Josh Velour did a video about ultimate gaming headphones, with the HD-800S being #1, DT-1990 a close #2.  And for fun, I'd throw the Audeze LCD-GX into the mix, since details is a known hallmark of planar magnetics.


----------



## Obeimi

Chastity said:


> @Obeimi   Josh Velour did a video about ultimate gaming headphones, with the HD-800S being #1, DT-1990 a close #2.  And for fun, I'd throw the Audeze LCD-GX into the mix, since details is a known hallmark of planar magnetics.


Can't find the video, looking on his channel, I don't see anything about ultimate gaming headphones comparison, was the video related to gaming in general or fps competitive? Because for gaming in general many headphone can be good but not that great in a specific enviroment like fps competitive.


----------



## Xqst

If u fellas had to choose a good, under 200$ gaming headset/headphones + mic without the need of an AMP/DAC, what would it be?


----------



## Chastity (Apr 6, 2020)

Obeimi said:


> Can't find the video, looking on his channel, I don't see anything about ultimate gaming headphones comparison, was the video related to gaming in general or fps competitive? Because for gaming in general many headphone can be good but not that great in a specific enviroment like fps competitive.


Watch his HD800 review and his DT-1990 review.  He touches it on both.  He touches on it a bit on the HD800S one too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I'd choose isn't what you'd choose because I feel I can game competitively with many headphones that aren't "THE BESTEST!1!!!"

At $200, I'd be more than happy with a 6XX, K7XX, DT880, X2, K612, HE4XX, etc. There's a bunch of great headphones that will do gaming competitively very well without sacrificing enjoyment
The AD700 and ADG1 give too much up in enjoyment just for the sake of competitive edge, and it's not like I'd do any better or worse with the others.


----------



## illram

For a complete headset <$200 and no need for an amp the PC37X ain't bad.


----------



## Obeimi

Bought K702 with wireless modmic xD
Will report back with impression. If I'm not satisfied I'll just send it back and buy the ADG1x probably. used one goes for 135 euro.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> What I'd choose isn't what you'd choose because I feel I can game competitively with many headphones that aren't "THE BESTEST!1!!!"
> 
> At $200, I'd be more than happy with a 6XX, K7XX, DT880, X2, K612, HE4XX, etc. There's a bunch of great headphones that will do gaming competitively very well without sacrificing enjoyment
> The AD700 and ADG1 give too much up in enjoyment just for the sake of competitive edge, and it's not like I'd do any better or worse with the others.


----------



## SierraMadre

Steelseries just bought Nahimic

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/joao...te-the-company-behind-nahimic-audio-software/


----------



## PurpleAngel

Obeimi said:


> if you had to choose between the k612/K701/K702 what would you choose? I never heard any of those three and the review online are contradicting, some says the K701 sound better (gaming wise) then the 702, some other says they are more or less the same and the K702 are more comfortable... Pricewise K612 115 euro and the K701-702 20-30 euro more. So madlust you have no love for the AD700x or the ADG1x?


The AKG 120-Ohm K612 and 62-Ohm K701/K702 are slightly power demanding, for their impedance (Ohm), where as the Audio Technicas not so much.



Xqst said:


> If u fellas had to choose a good, under 200$ gaming headset/headphones + mic without the need of an AMP/DAC, what would it be?


Maybe get a Modmic and buy a used Sennheiser HD598 (eBay) or used Audio Technica ATH-AD900.


----------



## Obeimi

I have both JDS EL DAC and JDS EL AMP, the amp can drive harder headphone then k701/k702 so I'm not worried about it 
Thanks for your suggestion and the time you took to help me 


PurpleAngel said:


> The AKG 120-Ohm K612 and 62-Ohm K701/K702 are slightly power demanding, for their impedance (Ohm), where as the Audio Technicas not so much.
> 
> 
> Maybe get a Modmic and buy a used Sennheiser HD598 (eBay) or used Audio Technica ATH-AD900.


----------



## Xqst

PurpleAngel said:


> Maybe get a Modmic and buy a used Sennheiser HD598 (eBay) or used Audio Technica ATH-AD900.



Thanks for the reply!
I can only get an HD 599 + Modmic. Wouldn't the PC37X be better tho? The AD900 are about 300€ even used its an absurd


----------



## PurpleAngel

Xqst said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> I can only get an HD 599 + Modmic. Wouldn't the PC37X be better tho? The AD900 are about 300€ even used its an absurd


Think of the PC37X as a HD518 to HD599 series headphone, with a mic added.
Sennheiser can (and has) used the same diaphragm, that can be found both in the gaming and regular headphones.
HD37X cup design might be slightly better for FPS and the HD599 cup design slightly geared more for music.
I say get the HD599, over the HD37X.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I would think the 599 is of a higher quality than the 37X.


----------



## illram

Does the 599 use the same detachable cable as the 598? If so you can buy a cheap mic+audio replacement for less than a mod mic. I have one on my 598 and it works great.


----------



## Xqst

I see. Awesome thanks for all the help!
I'll probably get the hd 599. I can also easily get a X2HR. How would they compare to the hd 599 for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 7, 2020)

If the 598 is anything to go by for the 599, the X2 is a better headphone, IMHO. More bass, and a more dynamic sound. The 599 would be more balanced, but not as impactful and dynamic. The X2 is absolutely one of my fave headphones. I liked the 598, but wasn't THRILLED with them. I think Sennheisers start getting truly good once you get to the 6XX and up. PX100-II aside. I loved those too, just not the comfort. I'd like to try the 58X and HD600 though.


----------



## AudioManNewb

What do people think of SXFI vs JBL Quantum. Do you think pictures vs in ear mic and measurements would be better for VSS.


----------



## deadchip12 (Apr 8, 2020)

Today I plug in my very old (and presumably very weak) usb sound card (pic below) and I get much higher volume on that thing than the g6 it's shocking. Like at 10/100 windows vol it's noticeably louder than my g6 at 30/100. How can that be? My headphone is fidelio x2hr 30ohm.







Edit: It turns out the old usb sound card is using Windows generic usb driver. Once installing manufacturer driver, its volume is similar to the g6. What is the explanation for this? Why Windows generic usb driver allows more volume compared to manufacturer driver? Is there a way to uninstall the manufacturer from the g6 and install Windows generic usb driver instead? I tried doing so in device manager and pressed scan for hardware changes but the g6 reinstalled manufacturer driver everytime.


----------



## illram

AudioManNewb said:


> What do people think of SXFI vs JBL Quantum. Do you think pictures vs in ear mic and measurements would be better for VSS.


I would imagine an actual mic recording would result in a better calibration (theoretically) but SXFI's ability to use a variety of headphones is nice.

I want to learn more about these JBL's, their website is woefully underinformative. I didn't know about this product and the in ear mic calibration + head tracking has me intrigued.


----------



## Xqst (Apr 8, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If the 598 is anything to go by for the 599, the X2 is a better headphone, IMHO. More bass, and a more dynamic sound. The 599 would be more balanced, but not as impactful and dynamic. The X2 is absolutely one of my fave headphones. I liked the 598, but wasn't THRILLED with them. I think Sennheisers start getting truly good once you get to the 6XX and up. PX100-II aside. I loved those too, just not the comfort. I'd like to try the 58X and HD600 though.



Oh great. Well, I do like the design of the X2HR a whole lot better than the hd 599. And if they're better for gaming and sound better overall, I guess it's decided then.

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Better for gaming is questionable. Better for casual gaming, certainly. Better for purely competitive gaming, no. Would I still take the X2 over the 599 even knowing that? Absolutely.


----------



## Xqst

Well, I've got the HyperX Cloud Flight atm, as long as the X2HR is better, not only in terms of pure audio quality, but also, directional sound... I'm all good!


----------



## AudioManNewb

Disregard the reviews by Tom's Hardware and The Verge. They apparently think its ok to review something before the software that sets it apart from other headphones is even ready. I would love to see a software solution or sxfi like amp dongle that we could use with any headphone of are choosing. 

Also if the JBL intrigues you take a look at these Drown Audio.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 8, 2020)

AudioManNewb said:


> Disregard the reviews by Tom's Hardware and The Verge. They apparently think its ok to review something before the software that sets it apart from other headphones is even ready. I would love to see a software solution or sxfi like amp dongle that we could use with any headphone of are choosing.
> 
> Also if the JBL intrigues you take a look at these Drown Audio.


Don't be so hard on them. There are times when companies send you products that they want impressions of ahead of time, even if not all features are available. So we have to work with what we have. I say this as someone who has been on this side of things.

It's like video games. People review games prior to them getting day 1 patches, and the like. So a lot of nitpicks and issues may not exist once the public even gets their hands on them.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's like FFVII Remake reviews. They're talking about some glitches where textures aren't loading properly, making parts of the game look muddy and ugly and unfinished. I'm here HOPING that this is something that will be addressed on launch day with a patch, but you never know.


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Don't be so hard on them. There are times when companies send you products that they want impressions of ahead of time, even if not all features are available. So we have to work with what we have. I say this as someone who has been on this side of things.
> 
> It's like video games. People review games prior to them getting day 1 patches, and the like. So a lot of nitpicks and issues may not exist once the public even gets their hands on them.
> 
> ...


Did you read them? They commented specially on the pointional accuracy only tom hardware I think even mentioned there software was not ready. The read like reviews not impressions. Why comment on a feature you were told was not ready what good is that going to do there readers except sway them away. Also they could have just not agreed to do the review before things were ready.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, what's the best mixamp kind of thing currently for less than 100$? Is it still the mixamp itself?


----------



## PurpleAngel

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, what's the best mixamp kind of thing currently for less than 100$? Is it still the mixamp itself?


Would this be for a gaming console or computer or other?


----------



## DSebastiao

PurpleAngel said:


> Would this be for a gaming console or computer or other?



Both, i'm currently using the mixamp 2013, it would be great if it could mix audio from the pc and the ps4. In the past i thought of just getting something to mix the audio from multiple sources, but i'm not sure what the solution would be.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mixing multiple audio tracks, I believe is more the job of an Audio Interface or DJ mixing unit?


----------



## Batmanjl

@PurpleAngel @Mad Lust Envy  i got the 599SE in today, for competitive PC gaming, would u prefer the strix dlx still? or go with G6 or test out mb3 for this particular headset?


----------



## Xqst

I'll be getting either the HD 599 or the X2HR once their price drops a bit.
Will an amp be that worth it for them? If so, any recommendations of something below like 100$ or maybe under 50$ that's worth it for those?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> @PurpleAngel @Mad Lust Envy  i got the 599SE in today, for competitive PC gaming, would u prefer the strix dlx still? or go with G6 or test out mb3 for this particular headset?


I would say to plug the HD599SE, into the Asus Strix DLX.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Better for gaming is questionable. Better for casual gaming, certainly. Better for purely competitive gaming, no. Would I still take the X2 over the 599 even knowing that? Absolutely.



Having owned both myself. This is 100% accurate.


----------



## Batmanjl

PurpleAngel said:


> I would say to plug the HD599SE, into the Asus Strix DLX.



which gain setting? Low, medium,or high? And use the FPS preset?


----------



## Playstation

Xqst said:


> I'll be getting either the HD 599 or the X2HR once their price drops a bit.
> Will an amp be that worth it for them? If so, any recommendations of something below like 100$ or maybe under 50$ that's worth it for those?



Might check out smsl, fosi, fx audio for the more budget friendly stuff.


----------



## mindbomb

Batmanjl said:


> which gain setting? Low, medium,or high? And use the FPS preset?



Use the lowest gain that gives you a reasonable volume range. If you are at 90-100% volume all the time, you set the gain too low. If you are at 5-10% volume all the time, you set the gain too high.


----------



## DSebastiao

PurpleAngel said:


> Mixing multiple audio tracks, I believe is more the job of an Audio Interface or DJ mixing unit?



Those won't work with 7.1 or even 5.1 audio unfortunately


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> which gain setting? Low, medium,or high? And use the FPS preset?


You could use low, medium or high gain setting for the 50-Ohm HD599SE, it takes the same amount of voltage, for a given loudness, no matter which gain setting is used.
But I would say to just leave it on the low gain setting.
FPS setting? have no idea.


----------



## nokso

Hi, I'm looking for information about the Audio-Technica ATH-G1 and I can't find many reviews. Have you tried them? Can you tell me how it is? Thanks


----------



## Batmanjl

decided to pull the trigger on the mb3 creative software for my other computer, to test against sonic studio. using the same headphones/games. how do I set it up? or what are the optimal settings int he creative control panel? @Mad Lust Envy @PurpleAngel , last question I swear


----------



## Fegefeuer

BlasterX G6 will get the SB Commando Upgrade sometime in June 2020 as a BETA and September 2020 officially. Not sure if it affects SBX. Supposedly it did for the AE-5 for the better. We shall see.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Batmanjl said:


> decided to pull the trigger on the mb3 creative software for my other computer, to test against sonic studio. using the same headphones/games. how do I set it up? or what are the optimal settings in the creative control panel? @Mad Lust Envy @PurpleAngel , last question I swear


Never used either software, so no can help there.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone I am just curious would the mobius be worth it for the ps5 or would it be pointless since they have a built in 3d audio chip. I am not sure what that really implies 

thanks


----------



## mindbomb

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I am just curious would the mobius be worth it for the ps5 or would it be pointless since they have a built in 3d audio chip. I am not sure what that really implies
> 
> thanks



It's specifically that they talk about HRTF, which will presumably be available through an audio menu in the sony operating system, which makes it so promising.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Unless your main use is usb through pc, you really shouldn't bother with the Mobius. I mean that's the whole point. Its a usb device first. The Bluetooth and analog are secondary and shouldn't sway you towards it if that's your main uses.


----------



## deadchip12

So after I make the g6 use Microsoft Windows driver instead of Creative driver, the pop/click issue is gone. Currently exchanging emails with Creative and pushing them for a fix since this is most likely their driver issue.


----------



## stavros.m

mindbomb said:


> It's specifically that they talk about HRTF, which will presumably be available through an audio menu in the sony operating system, which makes it so promising.


Thanks so then really the mobius will be worth it but again pretty much any decent headphone with an amp would be just as good



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Unless your main use is usb through pc, you really shouldn't bother with the Mobius. I mean that's the whole point. Its a usb device first. The Bluetooth and analog are secondary and shouldn't sway you towards it if that's your main uses.



yes thanks the Mobius would have been used 99% on usb. Though i am not sure if they are really worth it now that i am understanding how sony will be doing the 3d audio


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Thanks so then really the mobius will be worth it but again pretty much any decent headphone with an amp would be just as good
> 
> 
> 
> yes thanks the Mobius would have been used 99% on usb. Though i am not sure if they are really worth it now that i am understanding how sony will be doing the 3d audio


You're misunderstanding. The usb functionality works mainly on pc. Not consoles. Consumes don't have the drivers needed to utilize the Mobius correctly.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You're misunderstanding. The usb functionality works mainly on pc. Not consoles. Consumes don't have the drivers needed to utilize the Mobius correctly.


Ooo thanks ya i completely misunderstood 
I also thought with the new ps5 3d built in it would have the functionality to work with usb just like a pc, but i might getting ahead of myself since its not even released yet.


----------



## Playstation

So I bought another cheap dac because I wanted one that also had usb input. Also, considering the PS4 slim doesn't have the optical output. 

Someone had told me that even if the dac has it's own ac power adapter, and it's own volume knob, that it wouldn't be any louder than the loudest the dualshock 4 can get it. Well, they were right, and, it's not even as loud as the dualshock 4. 

This is bizarre to me because when I'm on my PS3 super slim, using direct optical into my other dac I was using for optical. The volume knob on the original dac does indeed raise the volume quite loud. I've yet to try the new dac on my PS3. As I said I bought it primarily for the PS4.

I feel I am back to square one. Where I would need to plug the optical audio into the t.v. Especially, after reading a reply from MLE about the poor quality of tv optical output. 

Back to USB vs optical. More data is carried over USB 2.0 than optical audio, correct? Yet, for whatever reason the PS4 won't allow you to adjust the volume any higher than their OS allows? Seems like the PS3 is better in this regard. Odd. 

I'd like to keep my new dac, if nothing else but for a backup. 

If I have to run any cables to the tv. I'm wonder if there are any HDMI to toslink, or HDMI to usb type b. 

How do I get louder volume than what the PS4 allows? SMH


----------



## PurpleAngel

Playstation said:


> So I bought another cheap dac because I wanted one that also had usb input. Also, considering the PS4 slim doesn't have the optical output.
> Someone had told me that even if the dac has it's own ac power adapter, and it's own volume knob, that it wouldn't be any louder than the loudest the dualshock 4 can get it. Well, they were right, and, it's not even as loud as the dualshock 4.
> This is bizarre to me because when I'm on my PS3 super slim, using direct optical into my other dac I was using for optical. The volume knob on the original dac does indeed raise the volume quite loud. I've yet to try the new dac on my PS3. As I said I bought it primarily for the PS4.
> I feel I am back to square one. Where I would need to plug the optical audio into the t.v.
> ...


What is the make and model of the cheap DAC?
Can we assume your connecting headphones to this DAC?
Are you using any headphone amplifier between the DAC and headphones?


----------



## Playstation (Apr 15, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> What is the make and model of the cheap DAC?
> Can we assume your connecting headphones to this DAC?
> Are you using any headphone amplifier between the DAC and headphones?



Hi 

The dac I bought to use with my PS4 and headphones is the FX Audio dac x6. I do not have seperate amp. I'd like to not buy an av receiver either.

Short of buying an amp. Since I did hook up said dac to my t.v., and it does get loud that way. I prefer just to stay hooked up to the tv, but over HDMI for the possibility of better audio quality. However, I'm having trouble finding any adapters that would work. Maybe I'm obsessing
Maybe the 16/40? tv optical audio is good enough, but I just wanted to be sure I'm getting the best given what I'm working with.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Playstation said:


> Hi
> The dac I bought to use with my PS4 and headphones is the FX Audio dac x6. I do not have seperate amp. I'd like to not buy an av receiver either.
> Short of buying an amp. Since I did hook up said dac to my t.v., and it does get loud that way. I prefer just to stay hooked up to the tv, but over HDMI for the possibility of better audio quality. However, I'm having trouble finding any adapters that would work. Maybe I'm obsessing
> Maybe the 16/40? tv optical audio is good enough, but I just wanted to be sure I'm getting the best given what I'm working with.


Seems like connecting the FX Audio DAC X6 to the TV optical output port is the best option.
Set gaming console's audio controls and TV audio to 2-channel stereo audio, to feed the best signal to the optical input on the FX Audio DAC X6.
Not seeing a good reason for going an HDMI adapter.


----------



## Playstation

Because my tv is old, tv components are sometimes cheaper. It's definitely the best option as far as price and simplicity. Again, maybe I'm obsessing. Maybe 16/40 isn't THAT bad. It doesn't sound bad, but, I'm curious if it would sound better over a connection that can carry more data. Maybe the extra data is more for the extra channels? and not just the plain old 2 channel stereo. 

I have to get some sleep now.


----------



## Will_i_ams

I have a question,

Is there a work around to be able to use any Bluetooth headphones as gaming headphones on PS4? So that you'd have the same functionality as the PlayStation Platinums? 

I've seen USB dongles and stuff on sale but they look kind of sketchy. 

I'm about to pick up some Jaybird Vistas for training with and I was just wondering if I could put them to more use with some gaming. Nothing competitive, just occasionally play online with a mate. 

If this has all been answered a million times, would you mind directing me to the relevant forum. 

Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Playstation said:


> Because my tv is old, tv components are sometimes cheaper. It's definitely the best option as far as price and simplicity. Again, maybe I'm obsessing. Maybe 16/40 isn't THAT bad. It doesn't sound bad, but, I'm curious if it would sound better over a connection that can carry more data. Maybe the extra data is more for the extra channels? and not just the plain old 2 channel stereo.
> I have to get some sleep now.


The FX Audio DAC X6 can only process 2-channels of PCM audio.


----------



## Playstation

PurpleAngel said:


> The FX Audio DAC X6 can only process 2-channels of PCM audio.



Yes but wouldn't 24/96 sound noticeably better than something around 16/40? If yes, and since the dac says it can support the higher frequency. What else do I need to buy to achieve the 24/96 level? A new source? Since the PS4 is limited in this regard, possibly a newer TV, or if one exists, an HDMI adapter? I always thought HDMI was the best. 

I kind of want a new TV for many reasons. The TV I own has a usb port but it's only more viewing images. Short of looking at the back panel of a new TV. I wonder if any newer model with usb ports would support audio out of them.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Playstation said:


> Yes but wouldn't 24/96 sound noticeably better than something around 16/40? If yes, and since the dac says it can support the higher frequency. What else do I need to buy to achieve the 24/96 level? A new source? Since the PS4 is limited in this regard, possibly a newer TV, or if one exists, an HDMI adapter? I always thought HDMI was the best. I kind of want a new TV for many reasons.
> The TV I own has a usb port but it's only more viewing images. Short of looking at the back panel of a new TV. I wonder if any newer model with usb ports would support audio out of them.


CD-audio is 16-bit/44.1k audio.
DVD movies max around 24-bit.48K
I would assume 24-bit/48k is more than enough for gaming.
So there might be little incentive for game designers to incorporate audio that is higher then 24-bit/48k (but I'm not the expert on gaming audio).
Blu-ray movies disks can support audio above 24-bit/48k.


----------



## mindbomb

Playstation said:


> Yes but wouldn't 24/96 sound noticeably better than something around 16/40?



I don't think it will matter in your case. For high end dacs with very low noise floors, using 16 bit introduces noise that can bottleneck their performance. For lower end dacs, there just isn't a very low noise floor to begin with, so it doesn't make much of a difference. And this is mostly looking at noise in an academic sense for measurements, the actual performance difference is probably unnoticeable in a practical sense.


----------



## Playstation

PurpleAngel said:


> CD-audio is 16-bit/44.1k audio.
> DVD movies max around 24-bit.48K
> I would assume 24-bit/48k is more than enough for gaming.
> So there might be little incentive for game designers to incorporate audio that is higher then 24-bit/48k (but I'm not the expert on gaming audio).
> Blu-ray movies disks can support audio above 24-bit/48k.



Playstation games use bluray. Not sure if that changes anything in regard to audio.

How do I achieve the 24/48 frequency? The optical output on my older TV is probably around 16/40 or lower. Plugging the dac directly into the PS4 is obviously the best way. However the volume isn't at my preferred listening level. 

Slightly different topic.

Just out of curiosity. I wonder what the DUALSHOCK 4 specifications are in regard to audio quality. Whatever they may be. I find it impressive that you can have stereo quality sound coming through a wireless controller.



mindbomb said:


> I don't think it will matter in your case. For high end dacs with very low noise floors, using 16 bit introduces noise that can bottleneck their performance. For lower end dacs, there just isn't a very low noise floor to begin with, so it doesn't make much of a difference. And this is mostly looking at noise in an academic sense for measurements, the actual performance difference is probably unnoticeable in a practical sense.



This does echo a similar conversation I was having with another head-fier. This also gives me a piece of mind having the second opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Ooo thanks ya i completely misunderstood
> I also thought with the new ps5 3d built in it would have the functionality to work with usb just like a pc, but i might getting ahead of myself since its not even released yet.


Yeah, might wanna hold off on future ps5 audio purchases.

We may not even need things with virtual surround anymore.

And I believe they've done away with the optical input too, which is a damn shame. The new Xbox doesn't have one.



Playstation said:


> I feel I am back to square one. Where I would need to plug the optical audio into the t.v. Especially, after reading a reply from MLE about the poor quality of tv optical output.



I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Optical audio output should be essentially the same regardless of devices. It's 1s and 0s. As long as the connection is stable, the TV's optical out is as good as any other. It's only sending ditial data to your dac to convert. There is no such thing as 1s and 0s gaining or losing quality, unless again there is something wring with the connection. 

When I said TVs have iffy audio outputs, I mainly meant in RCA analog outputs,* as well as optical output perhaps not having the ABILITY to output 5.1*. My TV can do 5.1 dolby digital through the optical out. That is essential for getting virtual surround from gaming amps like the Mixamp and G6. HOWEVER, if you're just playing in stereo, any regular TV's optical out would be perfectly fine, again, as long as it's a good connection without interference or drops.

So yes, if you need 5.1 and virtual surround, then your TV may not have the capability. Other than that, nothing is wrong with using the optical out on any tv. Much better than using their analog output.


----------



## Will_i_ams

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Optical audio output should be essentially the same regardless of devices. It's 1s and 0s. As long as the connection is stable, the TV's optical out is as good as any other. It's only sending ditial data to your dac to convert. There is no such thing as 1s and 0s gaining or losing quality, unless again there is something wring with the connection.
> 
> When I said TVs have iffy audio outputs, I mainly meant in RCA analog outputs,* as well as optical output perhaps not having the ABILITY to output 5.1*. My TV can do 5.1 dolby digital through the optical out. That is essential for getting virtual surround from gaming amps like the Mixamp and G6. HOWEVER, if you're just playing in stereo, any regular TV's optical out would be perfectly fine, again, as long as it's a good connection without interference or drops.
> 
> So yes, if you need 5.1 and virtual surround, then your TV may not have the capability. Other than that, nothing is wrong with using the optical out on any tv. Much better than using their analog output.



Hello, 

If you get a minute, could you please look at my post above. Thanks.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, might wanna hold off on future ps5 audio purchases.
> 
> We may not even need things with virtual surround anymore.
> 
> ...



Yeah. You were basically saying the optical either works or it doesn't. Meaning it's straightforward in nature. Unless of course there is something wrong/defective in the cable/source etc, which would be a different story. 

Also, I'm not into surround sound. However, I still find your reviews and this thread helpful. 

Considering I'm only using 2 channel PCM, I guess I'll be alright, if my older TV manages to output around 16/40. 
Also, though my dac is capable of 24/96, Mindbomb put my concerns at ease about that frequency (24/96), for my needs, not being necessary. 

With that, I am done here, for now.

Thanks everyone! <3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 15, 2020)

Will_i_ams said:


> I have a question,
> 
> Is there a work around to be able to use any Bluetooth headphones as gaming headphones on PS4? So that you'd have the same functionality as the PlayStation Platinums?
> 
> ...



You can buy something like:


https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B07TLHRPDP/

I have an older model of this.

It basically converts either the optical out or any analog out into a Bluetooth signal.

If a headphone supports Apt-X Low Latency, the transceiver will send that to the headphone, which is good. Otherwise you're stuck with slower codecs which will lag behind whatever is on screen. So I'd make absolutely certain a headphone accepts low latency Apt-X.

Also, this device only accepts 2 channel pcm, (stereo). So make 100% certain that your TV or ps4 or whatever it's connected to is set to pcm 2 channel/stereo, or it won't send a proper signal.

Of course, this means you're not getting surround or anything like that. But there IS a way to get that.

*What you CAN do is something like this device with a Creative G6. The G6 can send already converted virtual surround into a 2 channel signal via the optical out. This is the ideal solution for people who want their virtual surround to be sent through Bluetooth. You can also just send it through the analog out of the G6 if needed.*


----------



## Will_i_ams

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can buy something like:
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Wireless-Headphones/dp/B07TLHRPDP/
> ...



Thanks so much for the response. Would either option allow for talking over the headphones?

Also, the Jaybird Vistas haven't got aptx. Hmm,only wanted to buy one set for the moment.

It's either back to the drawing board or get a cheap pair with aptx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Will_i_ams said:


> Thanks so much for the response. Would either option allow for talking over the headphones?
> 
> Also, the Jaybird Vistas haven't got aptx. Hmm,only wanted to buy one set for the moment.
> 
> It's either back to the drawing board or get a cheap pair with aptx


No. I mean, how would that be possible? The device is literally extracting audio from audio OUTPUTS and converting then into something the Bluetooth codec can read.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Playstation said:


> Playstation games use Blu-ray. Not sure if that changes anything in regard to audio.
> How do I achieve the 24/48 frequency? The optical output on my older TV is probably around 16/40 or lower. Plugging the dac directly into the PS4 is obviously the best way. However the volume isn't at my preferred listening level.
> Slightly different topic.
> Just out of curiosity. I wonder what the DUALSHOCK 4 specifications are in regard to audio quality. Whatever they may be. I find it impressive that you can have stereo quality sound coming through a wireless controller.
> This does echo a similar conversation I was having with another head-fier. This also gives me a piece of mind having the second opinion.


You TV's optical output should at least pass 24-bit/96K digital audio (2-channel, PCM).
Just a guess, the PS4 gaming disk might be Blu-ray because it will hold a lot more content, then a DVD disk.
Video files would take up a lot of disk space, the video's audio might be higher than 24-bit/48K, but really just guessing.


----------



## Playstation (Apr 16, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> You TV's optical output should at least pass 24-bit/96K digital audio (2-channel, PCM).
> Just a guess, the PS4 gaming disk might be Blu-ray because it will hold a lot more content, then a DVD disk.
> Video files would take up a lot of disk space, the video's audio might be higher than 24-bit/48K, but really just guessing.



I really need a new TV. Which would make the most sense given my needs.
Speaking about Tv's. Looks like to get a TV with 120hz it's going to cost a couple hundred extra.

Another thing is the fact that console game audio, in the past anyways, hasn't always been that great. This isn't as often a issue with PS4 games. Though, on the PS3, I have played several games that had terrible audio for whatever reason.

It seems, now using the X2's I am hearing more noise interference than I did using the Astro's. Astro's really lack the clarity that comes with the X2's.

MLE recommended the X2's. I really like them for a lot of reasons. However, I will always have a love for the forward mids of the HD598's. Overall the X2's are better. Unless you need something solely for competition then the 598's would be the better option.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> I really need a new TV. Which would make the most sense given my needs.
> Speaking about Tv's. Looks like to get a TV with 120hz it's going to cost a couple hundred extra.
> 
> Another thing is the fact that console game audio, in the past anyways, hasn't always been that great. This isn't as often a issue with PS4 games. Though, on the PS3, I have played several games that had terrible audio for whatever reason.
> ...


If you love the 598s no reason to not move up to the 6XX or at least the 58x Jubilee. They're a step up


----------



## Chastity

G6 Owners:  Do you find the output, either amp or Line-Out, to be a little bit on the dry side, especially in regard to the mids and/or lower treble?  I'm suspecting some SS odd order harmonics may be at play.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you love the 598s no reason to not move up to the 6XX or at least the 58x Jubilee. They're a step up



the HD650's are likely the best bet to suit my taste. With drop making them a more reasonable purchase, it's a no brainer.

Which budget friendly dac/amp combo pairs well with the 6xx's? Some Schitt perhaps?


----------



## Lay.

I would personally rank HD598 above HD600 -series for FPS gaming only. I have HD660S at the moment and I have played games with them. They absolutely sound better than HD598 but I have to keep the volume higher to be able to hear the footsteps etc. and I get listening fatigue.

HD598 competitive
HD660S fun and decently competitive
HD800S fun and competitive

Just my personal opinion as a 95% FPS gamer.


----------



## X-Frame

RE: Creative SoundblasterX  G6



Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Astro Mixamp: *This is probably the one a lot of newcomers would probably be interested in. Unfortunately, it has been many years since I've owned any Mixamp, and I can't say what improvements, if any have been made since. All I know is that the older Mixamps (2013 and older), didn't have particularly good internals either in their dacs or amp stages. I would choose a G6 over the Mixamp 99% of the time. I believe the main benefit of choosing a Mixamp over the G6 is the game/voice volume mixing on the fly. Even then, I still would lean heavily towards the G6 due to all its other strengths over the Mixamp, including better virtual surround, cleaner, more powerful amplifier, its line/optical out properties, and more.



So I currently have an Astro Mixamp Pro TR -- the prior generation now as they recent updated according to their website. The main benefit I use the Mixamp for is because with the large knob I can bias more chat volume versus game volume. I play on PS4.

According to the above, the G6 does not have a similar knob or feature. It's not something I need to use constantly however -- for anyone with a PS4 -- what is the "long way" to achieve a similar result as the Mixamp game/voice volume biasing? What settings or volumes in PS4 or whatnot would I need to change to bias more volume chat?

If it's not too difficult or inconvenient I will likely get the G6 and replace the Mixamp. Thank you!


----------



## Lay.

X-Frame said:


> RE: Creative SoundblasterX  G6
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My MixAmp TR is collecting dust in my closet. Just update the G6 firmware with PC and you have the game/chat control with the knob. 

It is not that straight forward though...


*Interaction*


When connected to PS4, G6 will start up in Master Volume Control Mode.
Press and hold Volume Knob to switch to Side Tone Mode (RED Volume LED)
Press and hold Volume Knob again to switch to Game/Chat Mode (PINK Volume LED)


----------



## X-Frame

Lay. said:


> My MixAmp TR is collecting dust in my closet. Just update the G6 firmware with PC and you have the game/chat control with the knob.
> 
> It is not that straight forward though...
> 
> ...



That sound very simple, and perfectly fine to go through so that I'd benefit from the much better internals compared to the Mixamp. Do I need to always have a PC connected to it for this? My personal computer is a Mac, but I have a PC work laptop that won't always be home with me (though now it is because of quarantine).

I know that the G6 has tons of other surround modes and stuff, though even with the Mixamp I just keep it on Stereo all the time and no EQ so that when I game and listen to Spotify it sounds normal.


----------



## Lay.

X-Frame said:


> Do I need to always have a PC connected to it for this? My personal computer is a Mac, but I have a PC work laptop that won't always be home with me (though now it is because of quarantine).



No. Only when you make changes to the settings or update the firmware.


----------



## deadchip12

Just want to update on the current pop/click issue of my g6. Once I switch from Creative driver to Microsoft Windows driver (USB Audio 2.0) under Device Manager, the pop/click issue is gone. However, if I try the g6 on another computer with Creative driver then there is no pop/click. So it seems my particular pc has problem with Creative driver. Any idea?


----------



## halcyon (Apr 19, 2020)

deadchip12 said:


> Just want to update on the current pop/click issue of my g6. Once I switch from Creative driver to Microsoft Windows driver (USB Audio 2.0) under Device Manager, the pop/click issue is gone. However, if I try the g6 on another computer with Creative driver then there is no pop/click. So it seems my particular pc has problem with Creative driver. Any idea?
> However, if I try the g6 on another computer with Creative driver then there is no pop/click. So it seems my particular pc has problem with Creative driver. Any idea?
> Just want to update on the current pop/click issue of my g6. Once I switch from Creative driver to Microsoft Windows driver (USB Audio 2.0) under Device Manager, the pop/click issue is gone. However, if I try the g6 on another computer with Creative driver then there is no pop/click. So it seems my particular pc has problem with Creative driver. Any idea?



1. Download USB Tree view, start it and view all your USB controller / device tree with it
https://www.downloadcrew.com/article/32197-usb_device_tree_viewer

2. Locate the controller in which your G6 is attached to
3. Make sure there is ZERO other USB devices attached to that USB controller in adition to G6 (i.e. remove and re-attach usb cables on your computer until you have put them into slots in which they don't share stream bandwith with G6)

If this does not work, youre mother probably has too high/erratic DPC latency and there's very little you can do about it.

https://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml


----------



## deadchip12

halcyon said:


> 1. Download USB Tree view, start it and view all your USB controller / device tree with it
> 2. Locate the controller in which your G6 is attached to
> 3. Make sure there is ZERO other USB devices attached to that USB controller in adition to G6 (i.e. remove and re-attach usb cables on your computer until you have put them into slots in which they don't share stream bandwith with G6)
> 
> If this does not work, youre mother probably has too high/erratic DPCI latency and there's very little you can do about it.


Thanks. I’ll try. But if it is because of the motherboard, why is the issue solved when Microsoft driver is used instead of Creative?


----------



## halcyon

deadchip12 said:


> Thanks. I’ll try. But if it is because of the motherboard, why is the issue solved when Microsoft driver is used instead of Creative?




Different bandwidth use by different drivers? Hard to know. Are you sure you are getting the full 7.1 output with the MS driver?


----------



## C13LKE (Apr 19, 2020)

Hello MLE. Do you have any review of the Philips SHP9500 with the 3 ratings like the others here?

I am comparing to K702 at the minute for competitive+comfort (both same price in UK).

I was thinking of getting this to go with https://tinyurl.com/y9uab8st as suggested by Zeos If i get anything more than 32 ohm.
Which would you recommend out of that one above, The sound blaster play!3 and sound blaster G3.

I am playing on PC with 2013 Asus Rog Hero IV 4th gen I7 (high end mobo at the time). ROG SupremeFX 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC. Would any of the above improve my experience with online gaming?

any advice would be great thanks.


----------



## Xqst (Apr 19, 2020)

Is it possible to drive the DT 990 Premium 250ohm with the Z170A Gaming Pro?
I know for headphones such as these, its tough not to use an AMP/DAC. But, will the combo above, at least, be better than the Hyperx Cloud Flight (which are the ones I haave atm?)

I can get either the *Sennheiser Game One* or the *DT 990 Premium or Pro* which will be used with the Z170A Gaming Pro. It will primarly be used for gaming btw.

EDIT: The Z170A Gaming Pro has the Realtek ALC1150

Thanks


----------



## deadchip12 (Apr 19, 2020)

halcyon said:


> Different bandwidth use by different drivers? Hard to know. Are you sure you are getting the full 7.1 output with the MS driver?


7.1 vss on the g6 only works with Creative driver, not MS driver. That said I have dolby atmos for headphone and it works with both MS driver and Creative driver.


----------



## mindbomb

deadchip12 said:


> Just want to update on the current pop/click issue of my g6. Once I switch from Creative driver to Microsoft Windows driver (USB Audio 2.0) under Device Manager, the pop/click issue is gone. However, if I try the g6 on another computer with Creative driver then there is no pop/click. So it seems my particular pc has problem with Creative driver. Any idea?



Try using the shortest usb cable that you have


----------



## Playstation

mindbomb said:


> Try using the shortest usb cable that you have



Please elaborate on the importance of needing a shorter cable. I'm not having any of the above problems. However, I am using a ten foot usb cable with my dac.


----------



## mindbomb

Playstation said:


> Please elaborate on the importance of needing a shorter cable. I'm not having any of the above problems. However, I am using a ten foot usb cable with my dac.



Well, to me, it sounds like he is having issues with power delivery to his dac. With a shorter cable he can have less capacitance and resistance from the cable, and that might be just enough help to solve his problems.


----------



## deadchip12

halcyon said:


> 1. Download USB Tree view, start it and view all your USB controller / device tree with it
> https://www.downloadcrew.com/article/32197-usb_device_tree_viewer
> 
> 2. Locate the controller in which your G6 is attached to
> ...


So this is my usb tree view:




Highlighted is my g6. As you can see it's under the same Intel controller with my other usb devices. I have tried every single usb port but the g6 always remains in the same controller. I don't know how to move it to the Nvidia controller.

I also ran usb tree view on the other computer where there is no pop/click issue with the g6. The g6 there can stay under different usb host controller. There are 2 intel usb host controllers on that computer so I wonder why there's only one on mine.


----------



## halcyon

deadchip12 said:


> So this is my usb tree view:
> Highlighted is my g6. As you can see it's under the same Intel controller with my other usb devices. I have tried every single usb port but the g6 always remains in the same controller. I don't know how to move it to the Nvidia controller.
> 
> I also ran usb tree view on the other computer where there is no pop/click issue with the g6. The g6 there can stay under different usb host controller. There are 2 intel usb host controllers on that computer so I wonder why there's only one on mine.



1. There are USB headers on your motherboard, that offer extra USB-ports to the backplate of your case and/or the front connectors of your case. Most likely your other USB controller (nVidia above in your USB Tree) is conneted to those.

Old USB 3.0/3.1 Gen1 connector on the mobo look like this:




And the newer USB 3.1 Gen2 connectors on mobo look like this:




If you have truly tested EVERY SINGLE USB port from the back/front of your case already, then you  need to find a cable to connect to the above connectors and get more USB ports:

Like this



or this:




... and you will be able to have more USB ports and be able to attach different devices to different controllers.

Why does you mobo only have 1 Intel controller?

This totally depends on the motherboard maker, chipset used, features added, etc.

You can have anything from 1 to 5 controllers on a single motherboard.


----------



## Boogie7910 (Apr 21, 2020)

I got a Creative Sound BlasterX G6 when it first came out and enjoy it especially with being able to bypass the amp. I haven't checked this thread since then however. Is there a consensus on a better surround processing device for competitive sound positioning for console mainly but also PC?

Also are Sennheiser HD800's still king?


----------



## Lay. (Apr 21, 2020)

Boogie7910 said:


> I got a Creative Sound BlasterX G6 when it first came out and enjoy it especially with being able to bypass the amp. I haven't checked this thread since then however. Is there a consensus on a better surround processing device for competitive sound positioning for console mainly but also PC?
> 
> Also are Sennheiser HD800's still king?



I will give my highly subjective opinion.

G6 is the best VSS option for PS4 (Chat works) especially when bypassing the amp. Don't know how the chat works on Xbox etc. We might not even need these devices for the next gen consoles.

HD800/HD800S... pretty much for quiet environment. Overkill? Probably, but who cares


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD800 is still a great choice, go for it


----------



## Symstic

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What I'd choose isn't what you'd choose because I feel I can game competitively with many headphones that aren't "THE BESTEST!1!!!"
> 
> At $200, I'd be more than happy with a *6XX*, K7XX, DT880, X2, K612, *HE4XX*, etc. There's a bunch of great headphones that will do gaming competitively very well without sacrificing enjoyment
> The AD700 and ADG1 give too much up in enjoyment just for the sake of competitive edge, and it's not like I'd do any better or worse with the others.



@Mad Lust Envy This suggestion here is Hifiman HE4XX massdrop and Sennheiser HD 6XX massdrop ?  is it correct ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Symstic said:


> @Mad Lust Envy This suggestion here is Hifiman HE4XX massdrop and Sennheiser HD 6XX massdrop ?  is it correct ?


That's right.


----------



## chimney189

What's up everyone!

I'm looking to buy a headphone that'd be good for a game such as Escape From Tarkov… I have the HD 660S at the moment, but I'm wondering if something else would be better? I'm looking to spend $300-$400 tops.

Thanks!


----------



## halcyon

chimney189 said:


> What's up everyone!
> 
> I'm looking to buy a headphone that'd be good for a game such as Escape From Tarkov… I have the HD 660S at the moment, but I'm wondering if something else would be better? I'm looking to spend $300-$400 tops.
> 
> Thanks!



People, it's nigh impossible to answer general questions like this, unless you give more qualifiers:

1) Do you have sensitive or big eards (do you need big pads)?
2) Is the top part of your head sensitive (does the headband matter)?
3) Do you like darker or brighter sound type in headphones (i.e. more like Fostex/SennheiserHD6x0 or Ultrasone/Focal style)?
4) What matters most: 
 4.1 Sound neutrality / naturality
 4.2. listening comfort (sound based)
 4.3. gaming 3D positional accuracy for sounds
 4.4. sound isolation (no leakage in/out)
 4.5  wearing comfort (i.e. no physical discomfort from weight/pads/band/materials9
 4.6 bass reproduction (neutral, authoritative, bass-head)
5) do you wear glasses
6) what type of soundcard and/or amp do you use to drive your headphones
7) anything else important to you (looks, country where to buy from, etc)

Without knowing anything more, I'd say: you'd have to pay a lot more than $400 to get any meaningful step up from HD660s.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2020)

I had an reinforcement of my love with the D7000 while watching a movie yesterday. Bright back the feeling and reasons why I still think it's the best headphone I've ever experienced for movies.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How did you feel reexperiencing that bass? Remember my PM? I was a bit shocked.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> How did you feel reexperiencing that bass? Remember my PM? I was a bit shocked.


Yeah, exactly. Its the only thing I have heard that just really makes you feel like you have a personal home theater. Not even heavier bass headphones have that physical sensation of bass in this type of way. And not with this level of clarity despite that ear massaging feeling. Even considering headphones touted for the best bass ever like the TH900 doesn't quite do it like this. It's special.

Mind y'all that when I mean best movie headphone, that includes using it with Dolby Headphone. So it's the combination of everything.


----------



## chimney189

People, it's nigh impossible to answer general questions like this, unless you give more qualifiers:

 1) Do you have sensitive or big eards (do you need big pads)? *No, and I have smallish ears.*
 2) Is the top part of your head sensitive (does the headband matter)? *I'd like the headband to have some padding.*
 3) Do you like darker or brighter sound type in headphones (i.e. more like Fostex/SennheiserHD6x0 or Ultrasone/Focal style)? *My preferred sound signature would be the Sony MDR-Z1R, but if the HD 660S had the Z1R bass then I'd be in heaven.*
 4) What matters most: *Immersion and being able to here subtle sounds.*
 4.1 Sound neutrality / naturality *This doesn't matter to me as much, although I'd say that I lean towards a more "fun" sound signature.*
 4.2. listening comfort (sound based) *I'd like to be able to turn up the volume an not experience piercing highs.*
 4.3. gaming 3D positional accuracy for sounds *This does matter.*
 4.4. sound isolation (no leakage in/out) *I'd prefer the headphone to be able to isolate as much outside noise as possible since I have a gaming laptop, so it can run a bit loud under heavier loads.*
 4.5  wearing comfort (i.e. no physical discomfort from weight/pads/band/materials)* I'd like to be able to play at least 2-3 hours without discomfort.*
 4.6 bass reproduction (neutral, authoritative, bass-head) *Authoritative*
 5) do you wear glasses? *Yes*
 6) what type of soundcard and/or amp do you use to drive your headphones? *Burson DA-160 DAC + Violectric V100 amplifier*
 7) anything else important to you (looks, country where to buy from, etc) *Nothing that I can think of.*

 Without knowing anything more, I'd say: you'd have to pay a lot more than $400 to get any meaningful step up from HD660s.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I had an reinforcement of my love with the D7000 while watching a movie yesterday. Bright back the feeling and reasons why I still think it's the best headphone I've ever experienced for movies.


What amp have you used to drive them?


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, exactly. Its the only thing I have heard that just really makes you feel like you have a personal home theater. Not even heavier bass headphones have that physical sensation of bass in this type of way. And not with this level of clarity despite that ear massaging feeling. Even considering headphones touted for the best bass ever like the TH900 doesn't quite do it like this. It's special.
> 
> Mind y'all that when I mean best movie headphone, that includes using it with Dolby Headphone. So it's the combination of everything.


DT-1990 + Dolby Atmos is also a special experience


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 23, 2020)

The Denons are easy to drive. They're not bound to specific amplification. I'm just using the Schiit Hel attached to my Mixamp 5.8. in terms of movie viewing.




Chastity said:


> DT-1990 + Dolby Atmos is also a special experience


I've tested all manner of headphones. There's something about fostex drivers in wooden cups that resonate a specific way no other kind of enclosure can capture.

Of course there are many headphones out there with really amazing bass. But it's not like this. 

I'd venture a guess that only wooden fostex headphones do this. So probably some Emu Teak, Fostex Th-anything wood and the old Denons would come close. And even then it wouldn't be the same. Like the TH900 still didn't capture the magic of the D7000, even though it had its own special kind of bass.


----------



## halcyon

chimney189 said:


> People, it's nigh impossible to answer general questions like this, unless you give more qualifiers:
> 
> 1) Do you have sensitive or big eards (do you need big pads)? *No, and I have smallish ears.*
> 2) Is the top part of your head sensitive (does the headband matter)? *I'd like the headband to have some padding.*
> ...



Thanks  for taking the time to write down your preferences. Based on what you wrote:

- closed, decent isolation (not semi-open)
- circumaural, but doesn't have to be big
- for 3D gaming, good positional accuracy
- good bass, but not bloated
- easy to listen to, easy to wear for 2-3 hours

Based on what you wrote and my experiences (esp with HD6x0 series).

I'd try:

- *Drop Fostex TH/TR-series *(when they are available): better isolation than HD660s, more authoritative bass, decent for 3D positional accuracy, easy to listen to, your gear will drive them well : https://drop.com/search/fostex-tr-x00/drops
- Denon AH-D7200 (if/when they are on sale): http://www.pricegrabber.com/denon-ah-d7200-headphones/products/
- Perhaps, just perhaps, Neumann NDH-20 headphones (Sennheiser sub-brand, closed, neutral, might require some padding on top of the band for longer sessions, big cups, good isolation) : http://www.pricegrabber.com/neumann-ndh-20-headphones/products/

others can chime in on other suggestions.


----------



## jonu (Apr 24, 2020)

Happy Easter to all  with  love and hope

  I am looking to  buy  the   *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR   for  gaming and for electronic  music..   I have 2 questions..   the  Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR    are  the same version   with the  **Philips X2/27   *https://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2-27-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00O2Y2MZG/

*Also   there was one  review  from  you   for  the    * * Philips X2  but  these page  has deleted ,., thats  why i am asking if  the  Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR  are  very  good  for  gaming and EDM music.,...

i went in  your  link  for  the review  but  this page doesnt work any more  Headphone.guru. 


For electronic music  the  Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are very good;
also in  gaming  are  very  good?

i am hearing a lot of  techno and deep  house and trance and psy  trance  elements  and i want to know  how  these    Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR  act  in  the electronic sound...??*

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-X2HR-Resolution-Headphones-Isolation-Black/dp/B01N5VHLUG

https://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2-27-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00O2Y2MZG/

there  are 2  versions and i  have confused..


----------



## Steven Seagal

I'm just lurking here but w*t*f this recurring Greek troll is one funny ai bot.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 24, 2020)

jonu said:


> Happy Easter to all  with  love and hope
> 
> I am looking to  buy  the   *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR   for  gaming and for electronic  music..   I have 2 questions..   the  Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR    are  the same version   with the  **Philips X2/27   *https://www.amazon.com/Philips-X2-27-Fidelio-Headphones/dp/B00O2Y2MZG/
> 
> ...


It's the same headphone. Just one was discontinued, with slightly different parts like the pads being glued on, etc. Just get whichever is available to you.

And my X2 review is still on the first page, which links to the headphone.guru full review, so not sure what you mean. I don't associate myself with that website anymore, but my reviews are still there.




Steven Seagal said:


> I'm just lurking here but w*t*f this recurring Greek troll is one funny ai bot.



I have a feeling I know who you mean, from before. That guy just wouldn't stop asking the same stuff over and over. Hahaha. He's a character.


----------



## jonu

i want to ask  you one last  question

*For electronic music the Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are very good;
also in gaming are very good?*

and  one more  thing  i am  not  troll..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jonu said:


> i want to ask  you one last  question
> 
> *For electronic music the Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are very good;
> also in gaming are very good?*


yes


----------



## jonu

https://www.headphone.guru/phillips-fidelio-x2/ 

this  link doesnt exist  any  more


----------



## Playstation (Apr 24, 2020)

Is there anything in particular you would like to know about the X2's?

Never mind, I see MLE already replied.


----------



## jonu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> yes




i found your review https://www.headphone.guru/philips-fidelio-x2-exuding-excellence/ and i read your review..
now i want to ask one last question

what score rate you would put for /philips-fidelio-x2 for electronic music and gaming from 0 to 10?

this is my last question because i want to buy them tomorrow./. 

most i  am interested  for electronic music for  this i am asking what  rate score  you  would put  them  for electronic music from,  0 to 10;


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jonu said:


> i found your review https://www.headphone.guru/philips-fidelio-x2-exuding-excellence/ and i read your review..
> now i want to ask one last question
> 
> what score rate you would put for /philips-fidelio-x2 for electronic music and gaming from 0 to 10?
> ...


I already gave you all that I'm gonna answer. If there's no score it's because I no longer give scores out because people only focus on that and not the review itself.

I already told you they are good for electronic music. And gaming. You don't need some arbitrary score to make you second guess me saying they ARE GOOD FOR THOSE THINGS. That is it.


----------



## jonu (Apr 25, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I already gave you all that I'm gonna answer. If there's no score it's because I no longer give scores out because people only focus on that and not the review itself.
> 
> I already told you they are good for electronic music. And gaming. You don't need some arbitrary score to make you second guess me saying they ARE GOOD FOR THOSE THINGS. That is it.



so if you would choose   between   the dt990 pro and philips x2 for edm music and gaming..  .. which  you would   buy  for  these 2  things΄;(edm and  gaming)
because i   have  heard that the  dt990 pro are good  for  gaming and  edm music..    because  they have  the  v-shape  sound..

i  am  between  in     the dt990 pro and philips x2 for edm music and gaming  for  this i am asking  you  which  you would  buy  from  these 2;  from   your experience?

dt990 pro or   philips x2?

i am saying the v-shape sound from *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro for genres like* trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc????

also do you believe that the *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro in gaming??*


----------



## Playstation

jonu said:


> so if you would choose   between   the dt990 pro and philips x2 for edm music and gaming..  .. which  you would   buy  for  these 2  things΄;(edm and  gaming)
> because i   have  heard that the  dt990 pro are good  for  gaming and  edm music..    because  they have  the  v-shape  sound..
> 
> i  am  between  in     the dt990 pro and philips x2 for edm music and gaming  for  this i am asking  you  which  you would  buy  from  these 2;  from   your experience?
> ...



Unless you're doing a side-by-side sound comparison there's not a stark difference between these two headphones. Which also applies to their durability, comfort, price, and driveability. 32ohm with the Beyerdynamics. Either way you go you'll be fine. I personally believe both are best suited for casual gaming because of the bass. As far as music goes I'm really not that impressed when listening to different genres. This has to do with my preference with forward mids.


----------



## jonu

Playstation said:


> Unless you're doing a side-by-side sound comparison there's not a stark difference between these two headphones. Which also applies to their durability, comfort, price, and driveability. 32ohm with the Beyerdynamics. Either way you go you'll be fine. I personally believe both are best suited for casual gaming because of the bass. As far as music goes I'm really not that impressed when listening to different genres. This has to do with my preference with forward mids.



i am saying  do you believe  that   *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro for genres like* trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc????

i am listening only    trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc for  this reason i am asking from  these 2  which  you believe is  the  best for edm music';


----------



## Chastity

jonu said:


> i am saying  do you believe  that   *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro for genres like* trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc????
> 
> i am listening only    trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc for  this reason i am asking from  these 2  which  you believe is  the  best for edm music';


Here's a radical concept:

Buy both from a dealer with a great returns policy, and audition them at home.  Return the one you don't want.


----------



## illram (Apr 25, 2020)

Buy the X2's and never google headphones again.

If someone never used headphones before, was blissfully ignorant of the "audiophile" world of endless headphone debates, etc. etc., and bought the X2, they would probably be super impressed and never need another set of cans ever. (As long as they never opened the pandora's box of googling "best headphones for xyz.") IMHO. They're well tuned to appeal to the "average" listener (I mean that in a good way) and they also do a lot of the technical things right that you want a high end headphone to do. 

Good with everything, great with some things, not bad with anything. Low key endgame cans.


----------



## jonu

illram said:


> Buy the X2's and never google headphones again.
> 
> If someone never used headphones before, was blissfully ignorant of the "audiophile" world of endless headphone debates, etc. etc., and bought the X2, they would probably be super impressed and never need another set of cans ever. (As long as they never opened the pandora's box of googling "best headphones for xyz.") IMHO. They're well tuned to appeal to the "average" listener (I mean that in a good way) and they also do a lot of the technical things right that you want a high end headphone to do.
> 
> Good with everything, great with some things, not bad with anything. Low key endgame cans.





what  you mean when  you say  Buy the X2's and never google headphones again. ??


what  you mean  with  this??  because i  have confused



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I already gave you all that I'm gonna answer. If there's no score it's because I no longer give scores out because people only focus on that and not the review itself.
> 
> I already told you they are good for electronic music. And gaming. You don't need some arbitrary score to make you second guess me saying they ARE GOOD FOR THOSE THINGS. That is it.



I am saying in edm music like (trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc how the Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are playing??

do you believe that the Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro in edm music like (trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc??

because and the dt99o pro have v-shape sound....

i am saying the v-shape sound from Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro for genres like trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc????

also do you believe that the Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro in gaming??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can't do this anymore.


----------



## jonu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can't do this anymore.




look  one  people told me somethings and tell me  if  you gree

The concept of audio studios is that they reproduce music in a neutral way, without having their own character and without adding or subtracting to the individual frequency bands. The name "studio headphones" is not a title, nor a quality description, but a set of features that a pair of headphones must have in order to appreciate the reproduction of a music program and the main thing is neutrality, as described above.

But by reading below, it becomes clear that you are not really looking for a pair of neutral headphones, but one that plays _the music you prefer._
The truth is that we have a completely different musical taste. With trans, electronic, etc., I don't have many relationships.

But for a while I listened to the samples with the music of your choice.
*(Set-up: Samsung Galaxy S6 -> Fiio A5 -> Final Audio Piano Forte II)*
This music has as its main feature the great wealth in frequencies and above all in low and high. So you need a pair of headphones with rich edges. Fidelio with its special character and colors could be one of them. 

for the types of music you listen to, they will be manoules, with a deep bass and very nice analytical but not strictly high. 

The x2 is not as demanding in terms of amplification, as they show their character by 90% and from a simple mobile phone ... for this 10% the card must be more than enough ... now for their sound, the only downside but also advantage on the other hand is that they are not high fidelity (hi fi) but so tuned to be pleasant .... they have a very rich bass, very enjoyable and high strangeness, that have information but that never forgets ... they have an issue with the strings in the sense that they do not sound plausible, but in everything else they sow in terms of fun fact. 



do you agree or  no??

Mad last envy i didnt do something bad./. i  just asked  how  the x2 works in edm music..

i upload  the videos with   the music which i  am  hearing..

#and i asked   yoy some  things

1)do you believe that the *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro in* edm music like (trance, house, techno.. psy trance,., jungle and etc??



2)also do you believe that the *Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR are better from the dt990 pro in gaming??* 

also  
in terms of electronic music eg trance, house, techno .. psy trance,., jungle and etc do you think fidelio x2 is very good? I want to ask something on the subject of electronic music eg trance, house, techno .. psy trance,., Jungle and etc in studio headphones what is it that interests us the most? bass and imaging and treble΄? or open? I want to hear everything that happens in one piece. do you understand what i meanFor example, the sound from the sentheisaizers when the sound is produced I want to hear it very clearly .. ,, a piece eg trance I want to hear very clearly the details that are produced at that moment, and the beat, but also all the melodies to be very clean ...

I don't know how else to explain it, I want to say that the songs with Philips Audio Fidelio X2HR will be heard, very good and clear?? 


can  you answere me in all  these  things  please??  because  i am between  the x2 and  the dt990 pro and i must choose  today  which to buy  from  these 2  for  gaming and edm music,,.

these are  the last questions which i have/;/  i will not do another questions...

because i must choose   which to  buy  from  these 2  because i will  buy today  the headphones..  for  this i am asking you  how  good are  the x2 in edm music((((( and  trance, house, techno .. psy trance,., jungle and etc )   and         gaming??

also did  you see  the  videos with   which i am hearing??  in  all  these  kind of music  how  the x2  will work  ???


----------



## Chastity (Apr 26, 2020)

jonu said:


> also did  you see  the  videos with   which i am hearing??  in  all  these  kind of music  how  the x2  will work  ???


I understand your enthusiasm and excitement in shopping for a new pair of headphones.  The problem here is that MLE and others, while having heard both headphones, may not have both on hand to listen to your music selections.  Therefore they can't say with certainty as to which is better for your desired music genre.  Also, both headphones, while being good headphones, aren't hi-end headphones.  As such, they may do very well with some songs, and not so well with others, even within the same genre.

The best way to decide is to audition them yourself.  This way you are testing them with YOUR music on YOUR player and YOUR equipment.  This is why I suggested to you to buyt both, and return one.  If you do not want to do that, and you don't know anyone or anyplace to try these headphones, you will have to choose one blindly and try it.  I did that with my Beyerdynamics, my Sony's, and my Sennheisers.  I only had to rid myself of only one.  (DT-990 Pro)

MLE posted his reviews of all these headphones, and would prefer people to read them, and make their own conclusions, instead of repeatedly asking him for information he has already supplied in his links.  Honestly, he cannot tell you more that what he has written there since many of those headphones he no longer has on hand.  Your pursuit for your answer in this thread has gone a bit too far, and you have become what is known on forums as a Help Vampire.  And MLE is now avoiding your postings, as are some of the others.

You asked me these same questions in private, and I answered them to the best of my ability.  Of the two, you will probably be best served by the Philips X2HR.  The DT-990 will be harder to drive, and require better amping than just a PC's output.  Plus the headphone's sound signature is an acquired taste, and has more of a chance of you not liking it. The DT-880 may be a better choice, as it's treble is known to be not as intense, and somewhat better bass response due to being semi-open.  The treble is also not as harsh on the Premium DT-990 models vs the Pro, but will cost more.

For trance and other electronic music, you want drivers that can slam bass with authority and be tight, with no bleed into the low mids. You also want drivers that are fast and resolving, so that the micro elements of the music don't get lost or blurred. The treble should be present, and not soft and smooth, but not overly hot, lest the music will become fatiguing.  If you want this kind of sound on a budget, you may want to look at the HifiMan HE-4XX (Drop) or HE-400i.  Planars offer this kind of performance, and this headphone is in the price range of the X2HR and DT-990 Pro. Planars do benefit from a lot of power, so you will probably also need a dedicated amp. You can also consider the Sennheiser HD-58x from Drop.  It's a very good all-around headphone, that has good detail and can handle fast music.  Downside of them is that they are somewhat laid-back, and not an energetic headphone, but has a lot of what you want for your genre.  Bass would need to be EQ'd and boosted a bit.

But between the X2HR and DT-990, I feel the X2HR would serve you better.  The X2HR has that "fun" and energetic signature you would want, with good bass response.

I hope this answers what you wanted to know, and please, respect the people who provide the information.  They post it out there so they don't have to type it repeatedly over and over and over...


----------



## Zayn12

Hey guys,
I am looking at getting the AKG702, I have heard great things and they are at a good price. I want to be able to use them with my PC and Xbox One. I believe I need a amp/dac that I would use to connect everything up then I can just switch between the two.

Can anyone recommend one for me at all? 

I have been looking at the MixAmp A40 which I believe is fairly basic but will do the job.

I intend to use a separate microphone just plugged direct into the Xbox One controller if needed.

Thanks


----------



## jonu (Apr 26, 2020)

Chastity said:


> I understand your enthusiasm and excitement in shopping for a new pair of headphones.  The problem here is that MLE and others, while having heard both headphones, may not have both on hand to listen to your music selections.  Therefore they can't say with certainty as to which is better for your desired music genre.  Also, both headphones, while being good headphones, aren't hi-end headphones.  As such, they may do very well with some songs, and not so well with others, even within the same genre.
> 
> The best way to decide is to audition them yourself.  This way you are testing them with YOUR music on YOUR player and YOUR equipment.  This is why I suggested to you to buyt both, and return one.  If you do not want to do that, and you don't know anyone or anyplace to try these headphones, you will have to choose one blindly and try it.  I did that with my Beyerdynamics, my Sony's, and my Sennheisers.  I only had to rid myself of only one.  (DT-990 Pro)
> 
> ...





if i will  buy  the  X2HR will it be  very  good  for   trance and other electronic music΄΄???  i cant    buy     the   HifiMan HE-4XX because i ,dont leave in usa and in my country we dont  have the   HifiMan HE-4XX  and if i will  buy the   HifiMan HE-4XX  from usa  i will pay more  money for to come in my country  ,,  the  double cost..

for  this reason i am between  the  x2hr and  dt990 pro
#
also  i have  heard  from a lot of people  in  redit   that the  dt990pro are very  good for  trance and electronic music  do  you agree or  no with  your experience???




one person told me some  things and tell me if  you agree
The interesting thing with headphones is that your ears and mine will not be the same. Now, this doesn't mean that we can't agree on differences in headphones.

The good thing is that you can buy one or the other, as they are both very good. I have both myself, X2 and DT990 prp  and for me the biggest difference is that the Philips do some things perhaps exaggerated. For example, both headphones have good frequency response, and by this I mean you will not be _missing_ anything. It is all there. But, the x2 have more quantity of bass, but not necessarily better. The 990s don't lack in bass, most people would say - some would even say they are _bumped_, in other words, they have more than they should to be _neutral_. They x2 are v shaped with smooth trebble (for my ears), where the 990s are proper v shaped, more bass and more treble- which many people like for gaming, because the treble is good for footsteps, and the bass is good for explosions! But of the two, I would not use the x2 in studio. But for enjoyment, x2 have more bass, so explosions and EDM sound bigger. 990s are for me more versatile than x2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

MikeRRR, why are you back for the 246th time with the same questions. @Ichos We need you now.


----------



## jonu

Fegefeuer said:


> MikeRRR, why are you back for the 246th time with the same questions. @Ichos We need you now.




my real name my friend is  jim and i dont know any mikeer ...


----------



## Fegefeuer

MikeRRR is also from Greence and his writing style is exactly like yours AND he got the same music preferences too. 
It doesn't matter though. 

Your questions reminded about the Fidelio X3 that supposedly should have seen the light already. What happened?


----------



## Ichos (Apr 26, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> MikeRRR, why are you back for the 246th time with the same questions. @Ichos We need you now.



Oh God , he is asking the same here
https://avclub.gr/forum/showthread....ng-και-EDm-moysik?p=1058496435#post1058496435
He is jim200 (and one hundred more names as he got banned several times) and I am Sonorus.
Google translate my last post....

We have helped a hundred times but he keeps asking the same over and over again!


----------



## jonu

Fegefeuer said:


> MikeRRR is also from Greence and his writing style is exactly like yours AND he got the same music preferences too.
> It doesn't matter though.
> 
> Your questions reminded about the Fidelio X3 that supposedly should have seen the light already. What happened?



I am asking  for  the last  time.. and  this is  my last  time..


if i will buy the X2HR will it be very good for trance and other electronic music΄΄??? i cant buy the HifiMan HE-4XX because i ,dont leave in usa and in my country we dont have the HifiMan HE-4XX and if i will buy the HifiMan HE-4XX from usa i will pay more money for to come in my country ,, the double cost..

for this reason i am between the x2hr and dt990 pro
#
also i have heard from a lot of people in redit that the dt990pro are very good for trance and electronic music do you agree or no with your experience???




one person told me some things and tell me if you agree
The interesting thing with headphones is that your ears and mine will not be the same. Now, this doesn't mean that we can't agree on differences in headphones.

The good thing is that you can buy one or the other, as they are both very good. I have both myself, X2 and DT990 prp and for me the biggest difference is that the Philips do some things perhaps exaggerated. For example, both headphones have good frequency response, and by this I mean you will not be _missing_ anything. It is all there. But, the x2 have more quantity of bass, but not necessarily better. The 990s don't lack in bass, most people would say - some would even say they are _bumped_, in other words, they have more than they should to be _neutral_. They x2 are v shaped with smooth trebble (for my ears), where the 990s are proper v shaped, more bass and more treble- which many people like for gaming, because the treble is good for footsteps, and the bass is good for explosions! But of the two, I would not use the x2 in studio. But for enjoyment, x2 have more bass, so explosions and EDM sound bigger. 990s are for me more versatile than x2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

990 are good headphones. Just get them. Will serve you will for electronic music and gaming.


----------



## Lay.

"I am asking for the last time.."

I'm pretty shure I have seen that somewhere before 🤔😂


----------



## jonu (Apr 26, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> 990 are good headphones. Just get them. Will serve you will for electronic music and gaming.



i am interested to  buy  the ,,  X2HR    I   just asked  which  from   these 2 are better  for EDm music and  gaming??

X2HR or  DT990 pro??


if i will buy the X2HR will it be very good for trance and other electronic music΄΄???  because i am interested to  buy  X2xr

do  you believe that  the   X2HR are  better  from  dt990 pro in  trance and electronic  music..??

look  i found  the   X2HR in 100 euros..   for  this i  am asking   from  these 2 headphones  X2HR  and  dt990 pro which is better for edm music/? and  gaming??

this is my last   question  .. i am saying  which from  these 2 will perform better and  which  from these 2  you believe  that is more suitable   for  EDM music and gaming>??


----------



## Fegefeuer

X2HR for 100€ is a very good price. If they are new, then go for it. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.


----------



## jonu (Apr 26, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> X2HR for 100€ is a very good price. If they are new, then go for it. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.




yes i  found  them in 100 euros..and  they  are  new  from one person  in  greece..

but tell me one last  thing.. which from these 2 you believe that is more suitable for EDM music and gaming>??


what score  you  would  rate  from 0 to 10  for  EDM music and  gaming  for  these 2  headphones??X2HR and  dt990 pro


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't give ratings


----------



## jonu

Fegefeuer said:


> I don't give ratings


 from these 2   which  you believe that is more suitable for EDM music and gaming>??   from  you experience?
X2HR   or dt990 pro?


----------



## Fegefeuer

GET THE FIDELIO X2 FROM THE DUTCH COMPANY PHILIPS


----------



## jonu

Fegefeuer said:


> GET THE FIDELIO X2 FROM THE DUTCH COMPANY PHILIPS





i will  buy  the  THE FIDELIO  X2HR   this is my  final  ...conclusion,.,.


but  i want to see one video  with x2 and dt990 pro and THe HifiMan HE-4XX ,, i want to see it and i want to tell me what he is saying for

the x2 for the edm and gaming against dt990 pro and THe HifiMan HE-4XX   

and tell me if you agree with his review ok??


----------



## Fegefeuer

Youtube is blocked in my country.


----------



## Ichos (Apr 26, 2020)

North Korea that is?


----------



## jonu

Fegefeuer said:


> Youtube is blocked in my country.




look i will explain  you what he said  in  the  video
and tell me in which  things  you agree and no   ok??

and i ask  my  apologises  for  having alot of questions..


so he said  in  his video  that

1 in the video he is saying that the imaging of  x2   is not the best like hd650x,, now in this i wan to ask you something.

2 also do you believe that the image of x2 is better from dt990 pro??



3 when it says image what it means in one game?>?


4 he said for  the x2  that the differen mids and hight ends and different directions on the same time wont be apart>?>?

Is this very bad for the x2??? for what he said for the differen mids and hight ends and different directions on the same time??



5  also in his video he said that the THe HifiMan HE-4XX doesnt have air spacle in the vocals , he said that it is true present vocal presentsation.. what he means with this?? against the x2??



also one more thing that he said is that the soft highs from x2 are better and biger advantage against the bass which dt770 and dt990 pros... have..



my question is how the the soft highs from x2 are better and biger advantage against the bass which dt770 and dt990 pros??



can you explain me please/? my friend.//????


----------



## Fegefeuer

I don't trust this guy. MLE is better looking. Trust MLE.


----------



## Playstation

jonu said:


> this is my last   question  .. i am saying  which from  these 2 will perform better and  which  from these 2  you believe  that is more suitable   for  EDM music and gaming>??



So the list of music videos you made, which I cannot see now, most links were unavailable. Although the last song, whatever it was called when I listened last night sounded the best. 
I am not describing the sound.

Anyways. If I'm not mistaken. People who listen to edm prefer closed back, bass heavy headphones. With that being said my personal rating of the X2's for edm will be...... 7/10. Keep in mind I prefer forward mids. So. With my preference, the X2's not being basshead(correct?), not being closed back. You would think DJ's use closed back with a strong V shape(correct?). This is how I came up with my rating. Add in subjectivity, maybe 6/10?

For casual gaming only and based on sound. Probably 9/10. 

I would have to say about the same for the dt990's.

My next purchase will be the 6xx.

I would love to know how much bass these have. Though, suffice it to say that they have more than the 598's. The mids are about the same(maybe?). The treble isn't bright. Best suited for filthy casual gaming, right?


----------



## Chastity

jonu said:


> i will  buy  the  THE FIDELIO  X2HR   this is my  final  ...conclusion,.,.
> 
> 
> but  i want to see one video  with x2 and dt990 pro and THe HifiMan HE-4XX ,, i want to see it and i want to tell me what he is saying for
> ...



BadSeed is a very good, respected reviewer, and I often agree with his assessments.  And his review states the Philips X2HR headphones are spot on for EDM music, which is what you are looking for.  So get these.


----------



## jonu

yes  i will  buy  the  Philips X2HR  and yes  i am very  happy and i want to ask  one  very  big apologize to all of   you

to madlast evny,  to  you,, to playstation,, to all  the people in  this  forum

i am  hopping that  madlastenvy to forgive me and i ask apologizes to her and to  you

tell me something  why  this  guy in  this  video# he is saying the worst  things for x2???



see  the  video and tell me  if  you agree or no???  with  this  guy??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> I don't trust this guy. MLE is better looking. Trust MLE.


LMAO.

Oh man.

In 6 months we'll have some new guy from Greece filling up 4 pages here asking the same questions over an over. He'll whittle down to two headphones then want me and everyone elkse to give him an answer 50 times before he's convinced...to not buy anything and then come back 6 months later.

I try guys, I really do. But I have my limits.


----------



## illram (Apr 26, 2020)

I don't know how you deal with it, personally.

Changing subjects, the Drop THX 789 price went down and I am tempted. Anyone have one? My HD800S cable broke and all I have is the replacement balanced cable and new cables for it are stupid expensive and the THX has a "balanced" out. So, I have another excuse to buy something. Its input is up to 7v as well, so it could theoretically handle the headphone out from the Super X-Fi dongle, or the Sennheiser GSX.


----------



## Chastity

jonu said:


> tell me something  why  this  guy in  this  video# he is saying the worst  things for x2???
> 
> 
> 
> see  the  video and tell me  if  you agree or no???  with  this  guy??



1)  This is the first reviewer who has ever claimed that the Philips Fidelio X2HR is treble heavy.  (The DT-990 ARE treble heavy.)  He also doesn't mention what gear he is testing with.  He could be using a tube amp / preamp with sparkly bright tubes, which would cause the issues he is mentioning. If these were treble harsh, BadSeed would have mentioned this.

2) In regards to the cable.  Who cares.  Cables can be straightened, and 3.5mm headphone replacement cables are cheap.  The VModa cables are very flexible and would make a great replacement.

3) The X2HR is very popular on Reddit and other forums, so if they were bright and harsh, there would be memes about that everywhere, kinda like DT-990 Treble memes.  

So no, I do not agree with this review on his thoughts on sound signature.  If you are unsure about the X2HR, then don't buy them or the DT-990, and go find another headphone.  If you want real quality, you will have to up your budget to get the HifiMan Sundara.

I've run out of advice to give.  If you cannot decide, then get off your butt and go to an audio shop and listen to some headphones.  If you cannot do that, then you are in your own Hell and alone.  Just be a man and make a decision.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If he's scared of the X2 being treble heavy he definitely shouldn't even be looking at the 990.

But these are things in my reviews, and so it should come as no surprise.


----------



## jonu

Chastity said:


> 1)  This is the first reviewer who has ever claimed that the Philips Fidelio X2HR is treble heavy.  (The DT-990 ARE treble heavy.)  He also doesn't mention what gear he is testing with.  He could be using a tube amp / preamp with sparkly bright tubes, which would cause the issues he is mentioning. If these were treble harsh, BadSeed would have mentioned this.
> 
> 2) In regards to the cable.  Who cares.  Cables can be straightened, and 3.5mm headphone replacement cables are cheap.  The VModa cables are very flexible and would make a great replacement.
> 
> ...





and  this guy  hates  the  x2  

he is  saying  that in   gamimg arent not  good and some another  things?

i dont understand why some people reviewers  hates  so much the x2





jonu said:


> and  this guy  hates  the  x2
> 
> he is  saying  that in   gamimg arent not  good and some another  things?
> 
> i dont understand why some people reviewers  hates  so much the x2





do you agree with  this Joshua Valour   is  he  trusted reviewer??



only 3   reviwers i  like so much  the  Mad  last envy  and   the   BadSeed Tech  and  this guy in  this video   




this  Joshua Valour  i hate  him i bealevae he takes wrongs  coclucions/  for  everything


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 27, 2020)

jonu said:


> do you agree with  this Joshua Valour   is  he  trusted reviewer??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Listen man, I wasn't going to respond to you anymore, but there are things you need to understand. NOT EVERYONE LIKES THE SAME THINGS. There are times I agree with Joshua, there are times I don't. We all have our preferences. We are not all guaranteed to have the same opinions.

Hell he might not like the D7000 which I love, but he loves the LCD2 which I love. That's the great thing, there are no guarantees. We all have to bite the bullet and try things for ourselves without relying simply on others opinions. Which are just that: OPINIONS. You don't have to agree with me. I have plenty of people here who don't agree with me, and that's fine.

You asked if the X2 WAS GOOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANTED, I SAID YES. THEN YOU KEPT ASKING OVER AND OVER.

Listen: MAKE A DECISION. GET IT OR DON'T. OR GET THE 990, OR DON'T.

STOP ASKING. DECIDE ON ONE OR THE OTHER. OR DON'T.  STOP BEGGING PEOPLE FOR OPINIONS THAT ULTIMATELY DON'T MATTER. It's not life or death. Choose one. No one else is going to choose for you. I'm going to ignore you now, because there is nothing else for me to say to you, or you to say to me.


----------



## Fegefeuer

if Joshua Valor takes wrong conclusions then it means you know what's right and who's opinion is in line with yours, thus you already have your answer.
Why are you still here then?

BUY THE FIDELIO X2 FOR EINHUNDERT EURO NOW.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If he's scared of the X2 being treble heavy he definitely shouldn't even be looking at the 990.
> 
> But these are things in my reviews, and so it should come as no surprise.



When listening to music with the X2's, anytime a word starts or ends with an s, the sound is harsh. what exactly is this experience? This wasn't the experience I had with the 598's.


----------



## jonu

Playstation said:


> When listening to music with the X2's, anytime a word starts or ends with an s, the sound is harsh. what exactly is this experience? This wasn't the experience I had with the 598's.




what   you mean  the the sound is harsh.  ??

what  you mean  with this/?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 27, 2020)

Playstation said:


> When listening to music with the X2's, anytime a word starts or ends with an s, the sound is harsh. what exactly is this experience? This wasn't the experience I had with the 598's.


Can be tizz or sibilance. Headphones with emphasized S sound regions in sound can have this. D7000 has it, 990 has it, X2 has it, and others may have it. Another term for it is 'hot'.

The 598 and many other Sennheiser headphones tend to subdue these areas, which is why you don't hear it. They're very good at de-emphasizing these areas, but for some, that makes them sound less detailed, or too soft.

You can't have everything.


----------



## jonu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Can be tizz or sibilance. Headphones with emphasized S sound regions in sound can have this. D7000 has it, 990 has it, X2 has it, and others may have it. Another term for it is 'hot'.
> 
> The 598 and many other Sennheiser headphones tend to subdue these areas, which is why you don't hear it. They're very good at de-emphasizing these areas, but for some, that makes them sound less detailed, or too soft.
> 
> You can't have everything.




mad  last envy i am  very  happy i ordered  the x2hr

and i aSK MY APOLOGIZES TO   YOU AND TO EVERYONE/./
#

AND  I ASK MY  APOLOGIZES//


----------



## Fegefeuer

now go forth, son, and enjoy the X2HR for everlasting eternity


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just enjoy the sound, you made a good choice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Congratulations. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. They're a really great pair of headphones. Definitely one of my favorites.


----------



## jonu

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Congratulations. I'm sure you'll enjoy them. They're a really great pair of headphones. Definitely one of my favorites.





THANKS   MAD LUST  ENVY AND I ASK  MY APOLOGIZES TO YOU AND TO ALL  THE  MEMBERS  FROM  YOUR  FORUM.. AND AGAIN I ASK  MY  APOLOGIZES TO ALL..


----------



## Chastity

jonu said:


> mad last envy i am very happy i ordered the x2hr


I actually started dancing in my chair


----------



## Jornel (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi guys.
Trying to get on hi-fi audio but prices hurt too much.. XD
Need new headphones + dac/amp.
After research and some opinions i'm in the Middle of the bridge between DT 990 600ohms and AKG K712pro for competitive gaming.
Since the prices are too high i cant figure witch is the best choice.
In one hand the dt is good on treble for footsteps and on the other side the k712 pro is very good on soundstage and imaging.
Maybe i'm overthinking but i cant pick One. Should i go for the cheaper one?
Also i dont understand nothing about dac/amp but for thoose headphones i was looking to Fiio K5 pro, schitt hel and creative X3. Does any of these work good with dt 990 or k712?
If i go with the k5 i will need a modmic maybe wireless. For the schitt or the X3 i cant get the cheaper modmic.
Apreciate any Help and guidence.


----------



## kashim

hi guys i play competitive fps games ,but have some problem with positional audio,my audio setup is :
ad700x + sbz + modmic 4,headphone is great but i found hesuvi is better for vss then sbz,then now i play with
gsx + or cmss + ad700x,but wanna enhance my audio with an amp/dac,is possible use hesuvi and amp/dac?(i actually use vb cable hack)and which dac/amp is best option purely for gaming?


----------



## Xqst

Hey! So it seems the GSP 500 are now at around 160$. Would I still be better off getting the HD 599 + mic (would cost around 210$ total) / Sennheiser Game One (would cost 170$), or, would the GSP 500 be a better choice?


----------



## HieroX

Hey guys! Creative just launched a new X3 firmware and SB command update.
Go check it out. I just did a little testing, it seems to have cleared the distortions significantly.


----------



## kashim

Xqst said:


> Hey! So it seems the GSP 500 are now at around 160$. Would I still be better off getting the HD 599 + mic (would cost around 210$ total) / Sennheiser Game One (would cost 170$), or, would the GSP 500 be a better choice?


for gaming only gps probably little better then hd599,but 599 for all prupose is better


----------



## PurpleAngel

kashim said:


> hi guys i play competitive fps games ,but have some problem with positional audio,my audio setup is :
> ad700x + sbz + modmic 4,headphone is great but i found hesuvi is better for vss then sbz,then now i play with
> gsx + or cmss + ad700x,but wanna enhance my audio with an amp/dac,is possible use hesuvi and amp/dac?(i actually use vb cable hack)and which dac/amp is best option purely for gaming?


Maybe a Schiit Fulla 3.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kashim said:


> for gaming only gps probably little better then HD599,but 599 for all purpose is better


Yea, I  would expect the HD599 is at least slightly better for music.


----------



## kashim

PurpleAngel said:


> Maybe a Schiit Fulla 3.


ty my italian friend ,what is the different between fulla 3/heresy and magni3+? both have mic amp too?


----------



## Xqst

Awesome. Thanks! I just got them and they sound pretty great! Although they do seem kinda low even at 100% volume (also on the wheel). I got a Z170A Gaming Pro. Does it suck that much?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Xqst said:


> Awesome. Thanks! I just got them and they sound pretty great! Although they do seem kinda low even at 100% volume (also on the wheel). I got a Z170A Gaming Pro. Does it suck that much?


What exactly did you get?
Your motherboard comes with the Realtek ALC1150 audio processor, decent, for on-board audio.
Maybe get the Creative Labs Sound Blaster AE-5 sound card?



kashim said:


> ty my italian friend ,what is the different between fulla 3/heresy and magni3+? both have mic amp too?


The Hel is like the Fulla, but the Hel also comes with mic loudness control and gain switch (headphone jack voltage boost) and selectable input switch.
Modi/Magni does not come with an gaming features.


----------



## mindbomb

kashim said:


> hi guys i play competitive fps games ,but have some problem with positional audio,my audio setup is :
> ad700x + sbz + modmic 4,headphone is great but i found hesuvi is better for vss then sbz,then now i play with
> gsx + or cmss + ad700x,but wanna enhance my audio with an amp/dac,is possible use hesuvi and amp/dac?(i actually use vb cable hack)and which dac/amp is best option purely for gaming?



Usually, I advise people that use hesuvi to use their motherboard audio as a dac, since it usually supports 7.1 in windows, so there is no need for vb cable, and the set up is simplified. You can then buy just a headphone amp.


----------



## kashim

mindbomb said:


> Usually, I advise people that use hesuvi to use their motherboard audio as a dac, since it usually supports 7.1 in windows, so there is no need for vb cable, and the set up is simplified. You can then buy just a headphone amp.


my mobo is b450 tomahawk max  can u suggest me best positiona audio hrir from hesuvi?


----------



## Xqst (Apr 29, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> What exactly did you get?
> Your motherboard comes with the Realtek ALC1150 audio processor, decent, for on-board audio.
> Maybe get the Creative Labs Sound Blaster AE-5 sound card?



I got the GSP 500.
I found a small sound card here at home, and immediately felt an increase in volume and overall audio quality.

The sound card sucks, it cost me 10$ its a "Gembird Premium USB sound card".

What do you recommend in terms of DAC/AMP for the GSP 500?
I was thinking either the creative G1(30$) or a dac/amp such as the FiiO E10K (70$) or the E10(30$).
I can also get a Creative Sound Blaster Z for around 30-40$)


----------



## Fean

Hello,

I appreciate you must get many generic posts asking for advice or comparisons of products, and I came across many during my searches so I apologise in advance.

I want to provide as much detail about what I am looking for, my use case, budget and current setup and would really appreciate any advice you can give me.

These headphones will primarily be used for voice communications whilst gaming and I also really enjoy the immersive feel when playing MMOs , so I would like them to cater for that. I would be interested in something to enjoy music with as well, although have a pair of Shure IEMs I use for this though.

I currently have the older version of the Beyerdynamic MMX300 which has started to fail me due to a cable issue and has just fallen out of warranty. I run this via a Soundblaster ZXR although I do have a Yahama N500 driving a pair of Dali Zensor 3s if that might be better suited to driving my new headphones.
Whilst I've enjoyed my current setup, I find the MMX300s to be uncomfortable during longer sessions, my ears get pushed back and very warm and I often revert to a desktop mic and speakers much to the dismay of my gamer friends, so I am looking for an improvement there.

My absolute budget would be around £1000, my initial thoughts were a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s with an after market mic such as the Antlion Modmic, however I am sure I am going way overboard here and have found through further reading that I would probably require an external AMP/DAC combo to drive the T1s which has led me to drive myself insane reading for the last few days about what I really should do.

Please could you offer advice on your recommendations for my budget and requirements? I normally would not spend so much on something like this but I spend so many hours a day with these on my head and feel it is worth investing in.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fean said:


> These headphones will primarily be used for voice communications whilst gaming and I also really enjoy the immersive feel when playing MMOs , so I would like them to cater for that. I would be interested in something to enjoy music with as well, although have a pair of Shure IEMs I use for this though.
> I currently have the older version of the Beyerdynamic MMX300 which has started to fail me due to a cable issue and has just fallen out of warranty. I run this via a Sound Blaster ZXR although I do have a Yamaha N500 driving a pair of Dali Zensor 3s if that might be better suited to driving my new headphones.
> Whilst I've enjoyed my current setup, I find the MMX300s to be uncomfortable during longer sessions, my ears get pushed back and very warm and I often revert to a desktop mic and speakers much to the dismay of my gamer friends, so I am looking for an improvement there.
> My absolute budget would be around £1000, my initial thoughts were a pair of Beyerdynamic T1s with an aftermarket mic such as the Antlion Modmic, however I am sure I am going way overboard here and have found through further reading that I would probably require an external AMP/DAC combo to drive the T1s which has led me to drive myself insane reading for the last few days about what I really should do.


I would say to just keep using the SB-ZxR.
Headphones in the 60-Ohm to 300-Ohm range would work best with the SB-ZxR.
Headphones to check out.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/hifi_head...t=0&price-last=1000&oa=prd&filter=true&ls=100


----------



## Fean

Shortly after posting I discovered the LCD-GXs which seem to be very much what i'm looking for. I'm just a bit hesitant to go for them as they are around the same price as the Beyerdynamic T1s. It feels a bit of a shame to go for the GXs , despite the primary use case being gaming, I feel like I would get more for my money by going for something that would enhance music enjoyment more like the T1s and having gaming being a secondary concern.

Does anyone have experience with both of these? Should I just up my budget for the 800HDs?


----------



## Radio81

Hi all,

I'm needing to know if this will work.  Let's say I have an Astro Mixamp connected via optical and USB to PS4.  Currently wired using Philips SHP9500 headphones and V-Moda BoomPro mic.  I've never much cared for the BoomPro.  I'm told I get some echo on my end from members in party chat.

After researching alternative mics, I settled on a Modmic wireless.  Thinking of a way to also convert the game audio to wireless, I see the Fiio BTR3 bluetooth receiver.   If I bought a bluetooth transmitter to plug into the 3.5mm headphone output of the mixamp, will this be capable of sending game audio wirelessly to the BTR3?  Would I still be able to control the chatmix & volume at the mixamp and also control volume at the BTR3?


----------



## Evshrug (Apr 30, 2020)

Xqst said:


> I got the GSP 500.
> I found a small sound card here at home, and immediately felt an increase in volume and overall audio quality.
> 
> The sound card sucks, it cost me 10$ its a "Gembird Premium USB sound card".
> ...


If the $10 Gembird is such a noticeable improvement over your motherboard, then I would definitely recommend something besides the motherboard XD
Out of everything you listed, the Blaster Z would be the best sounding... if that's a legitimate Creative card (that's a very low price). The FiiO E10K is "fine," but it doesn't have a microphone input.





Radio81 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm needing to know if this will work.  Let's say I have an Astro Mixamp connected via optical and USB to PS4.  Currently wired using Philips SHP9500 headphones and V-Moda BoomPro mic.  I've never much cared for the BoomPro.  I'm told I get some echo on my end from members in party chat.
> 
> After researching alternative mics, I settled on a Modmic wireless.  Thinking of a way to also convert the game audio to wireless, I see the Fiio BTR3 bluetooth receiver.   If I bought a bluetooth transmitter to plug into the 3.5mm headphone output of the mixamp, will this be capable of sending game audio wirelessly to the BTR3?  Would I still be able to control the chatmix & volume at the mixamp and also control volume at the BTR3?


Well, I don't think the BTR3 or BTR3K have an audio return channel for your mic. Furthermore, when you do use a microphone and game audio over Bluetooth, it switches to a different transmission codec... one commonly associated with phone calls, and it doesn't sound very good. If you're connecting a bluetooth transmitter to the Mixamp's game audio output and the modmic wireless to the mic input... that would be convoluted, but I guess that should work.

BTW, I feel like I read that the PS5 will be compatible with headphone accessories that worked with the PS4, but I think it would be well worth it to see if you can find that information for yourself. Good Luck!


----------



## Xqst (Apr 30, 2020)

Evshrug said:


> If the $10 Gembird is such a noticeable improvement over your motherboard, then I would definitely recommend something besides the motherboard XD
> Out of everything you listed, the Blaster Z would be the best sounding... if that's a legitimate Creative card (that's a very low price). The FiiO E10K is "fine," but it doesn't have a microphone input.



Sorry, forgot to say, its a used one I found here. It's this one.
I can get any of these sound cards:

*X-Fi Titanium Professional Gaming

Asus Xonar D2X 7.1

Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro

Creative Sound Blaster Z*

I can also get a FiiO E10k but that only has one 3.5mm and I need two (since GSP 500 is an headset). Or would I be able to connect the headphone in the FiiO E10k and then the Mic on my MB?


----------



## Radio81

Evshrug said:


> Well, I don't think the BTR3 or BTR3K have an audio return channel for your mic. Furthermore, when you do use a microphone and game audio over Bluetooth, it switches to a different transmission codec... one commonly associated with phone calls, and it doesn't sound very good. If you're connecting a bluetooth transmitter to the Mixamp's game audio output and the modmic wireless to the mic input... that would be convoluted, but I guess that should work.
> 
> BTW, I feel like I read that the PS5 will be compatible with headphone accessories that worked with the PS4, but I think it would be well worth it to see if you can find that information for yourself. Good Luck!



Correct, the issue with BT and PS4 is the mic return channel not being transmitted.  As far as I know, the only two options to send chat audio over BT with PS4 are the modmic wireless mic, and the Creative BT-W2 transceiver.  The Creative BT-W2 is limited to: "Third-party headsets have to support both aptX-LL and FastStream codecs to utilize Vocal Back channel."  -So your basically limited to Creative's BT headsets, which are mostly underwhelming.

I think the modmic wireless, BTR3, and BT aptx-LL transmitter from the mixamp combo would work, though you're right it would be convoluted.  Since I'd be connecting to game audio separately from chat audio, the quality won't be degraded.  I'm mainly just curious if it would work to send processed game audio via BT and still have control over the chatmix from the mixamp (which would be within an arm's reach) and not be limited to wires.  

As for PS5, I'm still waiting to see the console reveal before I buy anything else headphone related.  If Sony doesn't retain the optical out, then that's going to render a lot of my equipment useless. If that is the case I hope headphone surround sound on PS5 can be provided at the OS level and sent via USB.  It's been a bit frustrating this gen that PS4 USB is limited to stereo. Another thing to note about PS5 chat is the DualSense controller has a built-in mic array.  I have my reservations about that, but I'm hopeful it will be decent.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fean said:


> Shortly after posting I discovered the LCD-GXs which seem to be very much what i'm looking for. I'm just a bit hesitant to go for them as they are around the same price as the Beyerdynamic T1s. It feels a bit of a shame to go for the GXs , despite the primary use case being gaming, I feel like I would get more for my money by going for something that would enhance music enjoyment more like the T1s and having gaming being a secondary concern. Does anyone have experience with both of these? Should I just up my budget for the 800HDs?



You could buy something like a used Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X), use those for FPS gaming, but buy a second headphone for everything else.


----------



## Fean

While the topic is on sound cards has anyone compared the EVGA Nu vs ZXR? There is a great deal over here where you can get an LCD-GX along with a Nu for just £50 over rrp of the headphone.


----------



## Xqst

I got the FiiO E10k and will be using it with the GSP 500!
Should I plug in the headphone jack into the FiiO and the Mic into my MB? Or is it better to use the "console cable" that comes with the GSP 500 (makes headphone and mic into 1 jack)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fean said:


> While the topic is on sound cards has anyone compared the EVGA Nu vs ZXR? There is a great deal over here where you can get an LCD-GX along with a Nu for just £50 over rrp of the headphone.


I'm not seeing any worthwhile advantages of replacing the SB-ZxR, with the EVGA Nu.
I'm guessing the seller is trying to unload their stock of EVGA Nu sound cards, that why it's selling for only the extra 50 GBP (guessing).
I would say to get something like a JDS Atom or Schiit Magni headphone amplifier, connect it to the SB-ZxR's line-output, those amps would be good for driving low Ohm (20-Ohm LCD-GX) headphones.
But using that type of connection will bypass the SB-ZxR's SBX Headphone surround sound, which does not matter for music audio or any other stereo audio.


----------



## Evshrug (May 1, 2020)

Xqst said:


> I got the FiiO E10k and will be using it with the GSP 500!
> Should I plug in the headphone jack into the FiiO and the Mic into my MB? Or is it better to use the "console cable" that comes with the GSP 500 (makes headphone and mic into 1 jack)


Just so you know, the headphone jack on the FiiO is not a microphone jack. Neither is it a smartphone-style jack which has separate connection points for the left, right, mic, and electrical ground connections. You might be able to separately connect the mic to your motherboard (with an extension cable), but separating the connections like that usually results in grounding issues (feedback, electrical buzzing and noise, etc). The E10k is ok for music, but it would have been my least recommended option out of everything you listed.
What you're doing right now... that's how I started 12 years ago. And I'm just telling you, you'll want an amp designed for gaming if you want to use a mic input... or you can do what I've done the past few years, and use a separate mic instead of a headset. I usually use my PS4 Camera's built-in mic when I play on console, and the mic inside the PS5 DSS controller seems like it'll be handy, though I admit that my headset has been super handy for voiceovers, streams, mobile gaming, and even a teleconference this morning ^_^



Fegefeuer said:


> Youtube is blocked in my country.


Lol <3 Feg!

Who has played the FF VII Remake?


----------



## cottonthemoth

Would going from MA900's to AKG K7XX's for a "bass"/"intensity" improvement for a game as heavy-hitting as DOOM (2016) be a good use case? The MA900's are amazing but I just want some more oomph and would love to give up as little soundstage as possible without getting into HD800 pricing. I was looking into the HD6XX's but they are described in a way that makes me feel like because of how used to my MA900's I am, I'd miss them too much, and that maybe the AKG's would be a better fit.

My setup is a Magni 2u with an Audioengine D1 DAC/Amp which will be replaced by a Modi 3 soon enough. Won't ever sell my MA900's but curious about trying other stuff. I got some used AKG K612 Pro's and they sound like hot garbage by comparison which is sort of against everything I've heard about them, a friend thinks I may have a faulty pair so I'm trying to keep from making assumptions about them.

Cheers!


----------



## Xqst (May 1, 2020)

Evshrug said:


> Just so you know, the headphone jack on the FiiO is not a microphone jack. Neither is it a smartphone-style jack which has separate connection points for the left, right, mic, and electrical ground connections. You might be able to separately connect the mic to your motherboard (with an extension cable), but separating the connections like that usually results in grounding issues (feedback, electrical buzzing and noise, etc). The E10k is ok for music, but it would have been my least recommended option out of everything you listed.
> What you're doing right now... that's how I started 12 years ago. And I'm just telling you, you'll want an amp designed for gaming if you want to use a mic input... or you can do what I've done the past few years, and use a separate mic instead of a headset. I usually use my PS4 Camera's built-in mic when I play on console, and the mic inside the PS5 DSS controller seems like it'll be handy, though I admit that my headset has been super handy for voiceovers, streams, mobile gaming, and even a teleconference this morning ^_^



I see. So there's a huge chance I just screw* up in getting the E10K. If I cant connect the mic to my MB input then its pretty much worthless for an headset... Would the "console cable" that comes with the headset, be better on the FiiO E10k? It pretty much "merges" headphone + mic into a single jack. If so, will I lose any audio quality by using this cable or is it all the same and I just get stuck with a short af cable?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 1, 2020)

cottonthemoth said:


> Would going from MA900's to AKG K7XX's for a "bass"/"intensity" improvement for a game as heavy-hitting as DOOM (2016) be a good use case? The MA900's are amazing but I just want some more oomph and would love to give up as little soundstage as possible without getting into HD800 pricing. I was looking into the HD6XX's but they are described in a way that makes me feel like because of how used to my MA900's I am, I'd miss them too much, and that maybe the AKG's would be a better fit.
> 
> My setup is a Magni 2u with an Audioengine D1 DAC/Amp which will be replaced by a Modi 3 soon enough. Won't ever sell my MA900's but curious about trying other stuff. I got some used AKG K612 Pro's and they sound like hot garbage by comparison which is sort of against everything I've heard about them, a friend thinks I may have a faulty pair so I'm trying to keep from making assumptions about them.
> 
> Cheers!


I think that'd be more a sidegrade, and they're more similar than different IMHO. As for the 6XX, you'd definitely lose some soundstage, and they also have a similar character to the MA900 otherwise.

I think if you wanna retain soundstage but add bass, maybe go for... Fidelio X2? Maybe an X1 for even more bass, though not sure the X1 is easy to find.

If you can splurge for more, the Edition XX's has a really fascinating soundstage and fantastic bass. Also, it's planar, and once you go planar, kinda hard to go back to dynamic. Problem with most planars is that they don't tend to have massive soundstaging, but the Ed.XX really has some incredible and different soundstaging.


----------



## Fean (May 1, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm not seeing any worthwhile advantages of replacing the SB-ZxR, with the EVGA Nu.
> I'm guessing the seller is trying to unload their stock of EVGA Nu sound cards, that why it's selling for only the extra 50 GBP (guessing).
> I would say to get something like a JDS Atom or Schiit Magni headphone amplifier, connect it to the SB-ZxR's line-output, those amps would be good for driving low Ohm (20-Ohm LCD-GX) headphones.
> But using that type of connection will bypass the SB-ZxR's SBX Headphone surround sound, which does not matter for music audio or any other stereo audio.



Thank you for your responses.

Would I see any benefit of both the Modi and Magni over ZxR + Magni for music and other stereo audio?

How does the Magni compare to the Hel? although I suppose I would want a feed from the ZxR for surround anyway.

Have a loaner pair of LCD-GX on the way, assuming its going to blow the MMX300 away


----------



## cottonthemoth

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think that'd be more a sidegrade, and they're more similar than different IMHO. As for the 6XX, you'd definitely lose some soundstage, and they also have a similar character to the MA900 otherwise.
> 
> I think if you wanna retain soundstage but add bass, maybe go for... Fidelio X2? Maybe an X1 for even more bass, though not sure the X1 is easy to find.
> 
> If you can splurge for more, the Edition XX's has a really fascinating soundstage and fantastic bass. Also, it's planar, and once you go planar, kinda hard to go back to dynamic. Problem with most planars is that they don't tend to have massive soundstaging, but the Ed.XX really has some incredible and different soundstaging.


The X2's sound right up my alley after reading/watching more reviews on them. I'll be doing the resistor mod to my MA900's as well. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Also, the 6XX does have some truly excellent full bass. Just you do lose some soundstage. It's definitely a headphone I'd recommend for practically anyone though.


----------



## Playstation

Playstation said:


> For console via usb or tv optical. What would be sufficient to drive the 6xx in regards to a dac/amp combo?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fean said:


> Thank you for your responses.
> Would I see any benefit of both the Modi and Magni over ZxR + Magni for music and other stereo audio?
> How does the Magni compare to the Hel? although I suppose I would want a feed from the ZxR for surround anyway.
> Have a loaner pair of LCD-GX on the way, assuming its going to blow the MMX300 away


The only advantage the Modi offers, is you could connect the SB-ZxR's S/PDIF optical output port to the Modi's optical input and the SB-ZxR can send it's SBX Headphone surround sound, out the optical port.
But I still say to just connect the Magni directly to the SB-ZxR.


----------



## pappy97 (May 2, 2020)

Thank you so much for this amazing guide!  I have read a lot of it, but I am confused on one thing.  I just got a Creative G6 for exclusive use on the PS4 playing games like Warzone.  Headphones are AD700x.  Will be connecting G6 to PS4 via optical and having PS4 output DD5.1 to G6.

What settings do I need on the G6?  I assume the settings are to turn *everything* off and Dolby to *Full. *And since direct mode doesn't work on PS4, set audio effects to *Stereo, no matter how counter-intuitive that sounds.*

I ask because I've read other people say that even for PS4, they turn surround to 100.  But that doesn't sound right because that seems like it means that artificial sounds will make it to my ears, when what I want is the most precise imaging possible for footsteps and related game sounds.  I also have read confusion about the configuration with people some people saying set it to stereo, while other say set it to 5.1 or 7.1.

Can someone please advise?  Thank you!!


----------



## PurpleAngel

pappy97 said:


> Thank you so much for this amazing guide!  I have read a lot of it, but I am confused on one thing.  I just got a Creative G6 for exclusive use on the PS4 playing games like Warzone.  Headphones are AD700x.  Will be connecting G6 to PS4 via optical and having PS4 output DD5.1 to G6.
> What settings do I need on the G6?  I assume the settings are to turn *everything* off and Dolby to *Full. *
> I ask because I've read other people say that even for PS4, they turn surround to 100.  But that doesn't sound right because that seems like it means that artificial sounds will make it to my ears, when what I want is the most precise imaging possible for footsteps and related game sounds.
> Can someone please advise?  Thank you!!


The Creative Labs G6 will use Dolby to decoded/un-compress the 6-channel of digital audio that comes thru optical.
But i believe it uses something (SBX?) besides Dolby to create the headphone surround sound.


----------



## pappy97

PurpleAngel said:


> The Creative Labs G6 will use Dolby to decoded/un-compress the 6-channel of digital audio that comes thru optical.
> But i believe it uses something (SBX?) besides Dolby to create the headphone surround sound.



Correct, SBX, but I'm trying to figure out which settings for SBX I should use for my purpose (Warzone on PS4).


----------



## Chastity

pappy97 said:


> Correct, SBX, but I'm trying to figure out which settings for SBX I should use for my purpose (Warzone on PS4).


IIRC Creative suggests using 67% Surround with DD decoding.  You are, of course welcome to experiment with different settings.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 3, 2020)

Hi all,

First, this is an amazing thread, new to this so I'll detail my question as much as possible. Apologies if some of it has already been answered.

As well as gaming, my usage is streaming. Currently I have a hyper x quad cast usb mic and hyperx cloud 2 headset. Now I have a stand alone mic I am thinking of upgrading my headset as now I only require headphones, therefore can get a higher quality sound.

My pc only has a realtek 887 inside as I didn't get an internal card this time, mainly as my headset was initially using the USB card that was part of the headset. My son wanted to plug in and listen when gaming/streaming so I dropped the USB and started using a splitter cable.

I've been looking at an open back set of headphones though as I stream I'm unsure if the mic will pick up audio from the headset. I have a noise gate setup and it only picks up my keys if I'm typing hard (cherry red silent). So my first question is open back or closed with that in mind?

My main game is Hunt Showdown, which I'm guessing most of you have not played, but the sound is amazing. Tons of sound cues so positioning and detail is key, distance as well as direction. The ability to pick out sound differences as well as position is important. Shroud reckoned it had the best sound of any fps. People comment now how I hear things others don't and that's just with the hyperx set.

Also with the fact I only have the realtek audio, if I buy a new set I'll need an amp and maybe a dac I thinks . I've had a look at things like the fiio's, schiit gear mentioned in this thread, soundblaster g6 and soundblasterx ae5.

I've 2 kids so cost is important. Prob only £250 max for now for what I need. I'm unsure if I need a dac and an amp and if so internal card or external.

I have a pair of audio technica msr7's I use for music at work, so they are closed back. I find they are great for music but in games seem a bit flat, gun shots and explosions seem a bit unimpressive.

I've looked at and read about the dt990's, various akg 600/700s and the Philips x2hr. All open back, but I'm just not sure. Closed back I've only really looked at the dt770 so far which has good reviews from game angles.

Usually I'd go out and find some to listen to, but lock down means that's not possible.

The hyper x positioning without the USB is great but then I've not heard the game on much else, the game is designed for stereo and does an amazing job of providing cues. The sound on the hyper x is quite warm I guess, but I'm sure I can do much better. Its a 60ohm set for your info, pc powers it fine.

A lot of decisions to make, any advice is appreciated. Sorry for the length of the post but I wanted to give a  clear picture and not have to go back and forth, wasting your time. 😁

If closed back then the dt770s seem the sensible option. Open back I was leaning towards the x2's but a few gaming usage reports make me think its between dt990's and one of the akgs. The ad700x are meant to be the best positioning wise but a bit flat. I'm not a pro gamer but I like my positional audio to be spot on while retaining immersion and decent gunshot/explosion sounds.


----------



## mindbomb

pappy97 said:


> Thank you so much for this amazing guide!  I have read a lot of it, but I am confused on one thing.  I just got a Creative G6 for exclusive use on the PS4 playing games like Warzone.  Headphones are AD700x.  Will be connecting G6 to PS4 via optical and having PS4 output DD5.1 to G6.
> 
> What settings do I need on the G6?  I assume the settings are to turn *everything* off and Dolby to *Full. *And since direct mode doesn't work on PS4, set audio effects to *Stereo, no matter how counter-intuitive that sounds.*
> 
> ...


 
I imagine you would set it to 5.1, and then enable sbx surround.


----------



## ricardovix

Hello, guys! I have a Sennheiser HD 598 which I use with a Sennheiser GSX 1000 for offline games and casual multiplayer games.

I thinking about upgrading it to a HD 599 or HD 58x, because the ammount that I'll have to spend after selling my HD598 are basicaly the same for both ($50,00).

Do you think that the "effort" of announce my HD 598, find a buyer, go to a post office worth the upgrade or they're all basicaly the same? I'm asking that considering the review on rtings:







One thing that make me worry about the 58X was the comfort, some people say the they're not so comfort as the 598 and 599 because they're tight on the head, so can get uncomfortable for people with larger heads.

If you have another suggestion, I'm open to it! I just have to see if they're available in my country. I looked the Philips Fidelio X2HR but they're too expensive here.

Thanks!


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Hello, guys! I have a Sennheiser HD 598 which I use with a Sennheiser GSX 1000 for offline games and casual multiplayer games.
> I thinking about upgrading it to a HD 599 or HD 58x, because the amount that I'll have to spend after selling my HD598 are basically the same for both ($50,00).
> Do you think that the "effort" of announce my HD 598, find a buyer, go to a post office worth the upgrade or they're all basically the same? I'm asking that considering the review on rtings:
> One thing that make me worry about the 58X was the comfort, some people say the they're not so comfort as the 598 and 599 because they're tight on the head, so can get uncomfortable for people with larger heads.
> If you have another suggestion, I'm open to it! I just have to see if they're available in my country. I looked the Philips Fidelio X2HR but they're too expensive here. Thanks!


I would not think of swapping out the HD598, for the HD599.


----------



## ricardovix

PurpleAngel said:


> I would not think of swapping out the HD598, for the HD599.



Which model you think worth the upgrade, exclusively for offline or casual online games?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Which model you think worth the upgrade, exclusively for offline or casual online games?


I wear my HD58X headphones everyday.
To me the HD598 is something I would use for gaming or watching internet videos (mellow longterm listening)
Maybe get the Soundmagic HP200 open headphones for lively music and movies (maybe even use sometimes for gaming)


----------



## Fean

PurpleAngel said:


> I'm not seeing any worthwhile advantages of replacing the SB-ZxR, with the EVGA Nu.
> I'm guessing the seller is trying to unload their stock of EVGA Nu sound cards, that why it's selling for only the extra 50 GBP (guessing).
> I would say to get something like a JDS Atom or Schiit Magni headphone amplifier, connect it to the SB-ZxR's line-output, those amps would be good for driving low Ohm (20-Ohm LCD-GX) headphones.
> But using that type of connection will bypass the SB-ZxR's SBX Headphone surround sound, which does not matter for music audio or any other stereo audio.



If I was willing to invest anymore in a headphone amp beyond the Magni, would I see any benefit? Is there anything you would recommend? 

 I'm also trying to understand the difference between the Magni 3+ and the Heresy, what would I notice between the two?


----------



## jonu (May 4, 2020)

the x2 are amazing in edm i am testing  them now

very good deep bass,, all very  good ,,,  i dont  have words to say  for  the x2 

the edm is  very  nice and clear///

in edm  the soundstage are amazing,,  the vocals are perfect...

thanks mad last evny i love  you so much i love all  the people in   head  fi..

maD LAST ENVY  I LOVE SO MUCH..

THE EDM WITH X2 IS SUPPOSED TO  BE LIKE MUST ME AS EDM MUSIC..

VERY CLEAR,., WARM,, BASS AND EVERYTHING,,,

[mod merged multiple posts]


----------



## PurpleAngel

Fean said:


> If I was willing to invest anymore in a headphone amp beyond the Magni, would I see any benefit? Is there anything you would recommend?
> I'm also trying to understand the difference between the Magni 3+ and the Heresy, what would I notice between the two?


Magni 3 should be good enough.


----------



## Chastity

Question:  has anyone managed to get the G6 to output above 48KHz on the SPDIF-Out toslink?  I have a cable here that I am using off my motherboard's sound optical that is able to output 24/96 just fine, but I cannot get the G6 to do it.  Protips appreciated.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Chastity said:


> Question:  has anyone managed to get the G6 to output above 48KHz on the SPDIF-Out toslink?  I have a cable here that I am using off my motherboard's sound optical that is able to output 24/96 just fine, but I cannot get the G6 to do it.  Protips appreciated.


To pass more then 2 channels of digital audio (PCM) thru S/PDIF optical (or coaxial), encoding (compression) is used, the encoding is limited to 24-bit/48K max.
So to pass higher then 24-bit/48K, only feed 2-channel of audio to the G6 and make sure the G6 software has it's encoded disabled.
Software like DDL (Dolby Digital Live) or DTS-Connect is used to encode the audio channels, so make sure those are not enabled.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 4, 2020)

Not had any replies yet to my reply above but I have decided on the 702's. 😁

What's best amp/dac wise? I've seen the soundblaster ae5 or x3 mentioned as well as things like the fiio 10k.


----------



## PurpleAngel (May 5, 2020)

Mmoyeti said:


> Not had any replies yet to my reply above but I have decided on the 702's. 😁
> What's best amp/dac wise? I've seen the soundblaster ae5 or x3 mentioned as well as things like the fiio 10k.


People on this forum that offer advice are doing it for zero money (I'm guessing) and those people may not want to a lot of spend reading a large post.
With long posts the questions can get convoluted, so you have to read the same long post again, to make sure you have fully understood what is being asked.
I suffer from ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), so I might have to reread a long post more than twice to understand what is being asked.
And I'm just not going to waste time rereading a long post, several times, for something I get zero compensation for. But that's just me.
I would suggest getting the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX AE-5 sound card.
AKG 700 series headphone are somewhat power hungry and the AE-5 should offer the most power (voltage) from what you have listed.


----------



## Chastity

PurpleAngel said:


> To pass more then 2 channels of digital audio (PCM) thru S/PDIF optical (or coaxial), encoding (compression) is used, the encoding is limited to 24-bit/48K max.
> So to pass higher then 24-bit/48K, only feed 2-channel of audio to the G6 and make sure the G6 software has it's encoded disabled.
> Software like DDL (Dolby Digital Live) or DTS-Connect is used to encode the audio channels, so make sure those are not enabled.


Thx for the info.  However, SPDIF specs have expanded, and are no longer limited to 48KHz PCM.  I was just doing 24/96 PCM stereo from my motherboard's toslink to my DAC.  It even comes close to resolving 24/192, but it's spotty.  I would need a better quality cable, but at least the DAC recognizes it as 192KHz.  The G6 also doesn't support DD Live encoding natively, so no, that's not enabled.

I tried limiting to 2.0 PCM, with Windows Audio set to 24/96, but nope.. only get 48KHz.  Even if set to Direct SPDIF-Out.  What's amusing is that the help for Connect 2 says the SPDIF-Out via Toslink supports up to 24/96.  So I will forward this to Customer Support.  Maybe this is a bug that is fixed in the upcoming Command release.


----------



## PurpleAngel (May 4, 2020)

Chastity said:


> Thx for the info.  However, SPDIF specs have expanded, and are no longer limited to 48KHz PCM.  I was just doing 24/96 PCM stereo from my motherboard's toslink to my DAC.  It even comes close to resolving 24/192, but it's spotty.  I would need a better quality cable, but at least the DAC recognizes it as 192KHz.  The G6 also doesn't support DD Live encoding natively, so no, that's not enabled.
> 
> I tried limiting to 2.0 PCM, with Windows Audio set to 24/96, but nope.. only get 48KHz.  Even if set to Direct SPDIF-Out.  What's amusing is that the help for Connect 2 says the SPDIF-Out via Toslink supports up to 24/96.  So I will forward this to Customer Support.  Maybe this is a bug that is fixed in the upcoming Command release.


What type of digital audio (music, movies disks, internet videos/movies or other) are you trying to send thru S/PDIF optical?

Go to Windows control panel > Sound section > Playback tab.
Select (highligh) the Realtek Digital Output, go to (right click) properties and select the Support Formats tab, make sure all the Sample Rates are checked (enabled)


----------



## Chastity

PurpleAngel said:


> What type of digital audio (music, movies disks, internet videos/movies or other) are you trying to send thru S/PDIF optical?
> 
> Go to Windows control panel > Sound section > Playback tab.
> Select (highligh) the Realtek Digital Output, go to (right click) properties and select the Support Formats tab, make sure all the Sample Rates are checked (enabled)


Did that already, but you seem to forget I am NOT using Realtek, but the Creative G6.  That unit doesn't have a Windows tab for Digital out, despite being supported. I'll probably have to wait for Creative to release the updated Command software and drivers.  Beta in June.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Thanks purple, I didn't mean it in that way. Just meant I'd come to my own conclusion mostly down to reading the info in this thread. 😁 Couldn't have done so without all the info here.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Chastity said:


> Did that already, but you seem to forget I am NOT using Realtek, but the Creative G6.  That unit doesn't have a Windows tab for Digital out, despite being supported. I'll probably have to wait for Creative to release the updated Command software and drivers.  Beta in June.


Oops,Creative G6,


----------



## Chastity

PurpleAngel said:


> Oops,Creative G6,


I did some further testing, and I decided to check a few things.  After removing the software, and just loading MS drivers for the device, when using SPDIF-Out, the device only exposes 48KHz.  I suspect the device will only do that, unless they open it up in the upcoming Command update. (Which I doubt)  I am quite sad, since I bought the G6 expecting to use it as a dedicated Virtualizer.     But all is not so dismal...

I invested in a Crosshair VIII Hero mobo from Asus, which includes their Sonic Studio III software suite, which is capable of doing 7.1 VRR.  (Getting it config'd for Windows Games is another concern.) One nice feature of the software is that you can enable it on other audio devices, and not just the Realtek device on the motherboard.  So I attached my M300 DAC via USB, and connected the SS III software to it. viola!  I also have licenses for Dolby Access / DTS:X for Windows 10, and can experiment with all three solutions.  I also understand that I can get the SBX software as a stand alone from Creative for $30.   There's also HeSuVi, but I have an aversion for that software.

From my tests with 5.1 audio tracks that abuse panning across Left - Center- Right channels, like say Metallica's "Enter Sandman" DVD-A version, I can get a "proper" 5.1 effect with the Sonic Studio III.  It's also 3 AM, so I should pick up on this in the morning.  The nice thing with SS III is that it works with higher resolution audio without resampling, much like SBX, so I am leaning towards this as my solution.  Dolby/DTS:X forces 16/48, which is fine for movies and gaming, but will resample my 24/96 audio.

It's also nice to see the Hi-Res Audio logo pop up on the DAC's display finally.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Is the x3 a better option than the ae5?


----------



## Chastity

Mmoyeti said:


> Is the x3 a better option than the ae5?


Using it as a headphone amp, or just a DAC?


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 5, 2020)

Amp as well, don't have either so far.  Just realtek audio in pc and a gaming headset, so going onto the next step. 

After some more reading I think the AE-5 is what I'll go for along with the K702's. There's the Zx but that is older gen i think (even though my friend likes the control knob  ).

My main game atm is Hunt Showdown and when loading you get a screen saying it's best experienced with headphone for full binaural 3d audio. Some comments on this thread talk about it's audio

https://steamcommunity.com/app/594650/discussions/4/3220528325734292178/

So I should turn surround off for that game?


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> Amp as well, don't have either so far.  Just realtek audio in pc and a gaming headset, so going onto the next step.
> 
> After some more reading I think the AE-5 is what I'll go for along with the K702's. There's the Zx but that is older gen i think (even though my friend likes the control knob  ).
> 
> ...


yes. In most cases, you want to use virtual 7.1, but this game is an exception since it already outputs virtual surround sound natively.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Thanks @mindbomb . Think the ae5 is a good pick then?


----------



## MEGALADON

Hello All,
I'm looking to get back into competing at games. I play on the ps4. I did alot of GBs from call of duty to socom. Beginning years of competitive gaming I used Tritton, turtle beach and after glow. My favorite gaming headset is the px4 from turtle beach. This year alone I have ran through a number of headsets based on reviews and streams. They all sound like trash to me. I have bought everything from the turtle beach pro 2 to the hyperx cloud orbit s. I had the arctis pro+ game dac, arctis pro wireless, turtle beach pro 2, hyperx cloud, hyperx cloud orbit s, sony gold... etc. I currently use the platinums. The ps4 does not allow for gaming headphones to be utilized to there full potential. Anybody in a similar boat?


----------



## mindbomb (May 5, 2020)

Mmoyeti said:


> Thanks @mindbomb . Think the ae5 is a good pick then?


In terms of hardware solutions, I think the sennheiser gsx series looks the best. Well written instructions and intuitive controls. The ae5 looked like it had good audio performance, but they shot themselves in the foot by only having 5.1 surround sound support, and the software is relatively hard to use and there are no instructions. On the Creative side of things, I actually think the super xfi amp looks good.


----------



## PurpleAngel

MEGALADON said:


> Hello All,
> I'm looking to get back into competing at games. I play on the ps4. I did a lot of GBs from call of duty to socom. Beginning years of competitive gaming I used Tritton, turtle beach and after glow. My favorite gaming headset is the px4 from turtle beach. This year alone I have ran through a number of headsets based on reviews and streams. They all sound like trash to me. I have bought everything from the turtle beach pro 2 to the hyperx cloud orbit s. I had the arctis pro+ game dac, arctis pro wireless, turtle beach pro 2, hyperx cloud, hyperx cloud orbit s, sony gold... etc. I currently use the platinums. The ps4 does not allow for gaming headphones to be utilized to there full potential. Anybody in a similar boat?


What exactly are you asking a question about?
What are you trying to solve?


----------



## MEGALADON

PurpleAngel said:


> What exactly are you asking a question about?
> What are you trying to solve?



I'm trying to get into open back headphones because the gaming headsets suck. I don't know what direction to take as in headphones, amp, dac. It's all new to me. Unsure as to what works and doesn't work with the ps4.


----------



## PurpleAngel

MEGALADON said:


> I'm trying to get into open back headphones because the gaming headsets suck. I don't know what direction to take as in headphones, amp, dac. It's all new to me. Unsure as to what works and doesn't work with the ps4.


For a PS4, check the Sound BlasterX G5 or G6.
Budget for audio upgrade?


----------



## MEGALADON

PurpleAngel said:


> For a PS4, check the Sound BlasterX G5 or G6.
> Budget for audio upgrade?


I can throw 1500


----------



## PurpleAngel

MEGALADON said:


> I can throw 1500


Get the Sound BlasterX G6 (or G5) and the Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) headphones.
Cost for hardware $300?


----------



## MEGALADON

Is that the starter pack, or the real deal?


----------



## PurpleAngel

MEGALADON said:


> Is that the starter pack, or the real deal?


For FPS gaming on a gaming console, that's about as good as it gets.
The AD700(X) lack bass, which I guess helps for FPS gaming, but not as good for movies and music that have bass.
So buy a second (much higher priced) headphone for all non-FPS gaming uses.


----------



## MEGALADON

PurpleAngel said:


> For FPS gaming on a gaming console, that's about as good as it gets.
> The AD700(X) lack bass, which I guess helps for FPS gaming, but not as good for movies and music that have bass.
> So buy a second (much higher priced) headphone for all non-FPS gaming uses.


Okay and thanks


----------



## Chastity

MEGALADON said:


> Okay and thanks


My setup for gaming/music/movie is about $1200

SMSL M300 MKII DAC, Asgard 3 amp, FX-Audio TUBE-01 tube buffer w/ GE JAN 5654W tubes, DT-1990 Pro, Dekoni Elite Velour pads for DT, Creative G6 (currently using a software virtualizer instead)


----------



## illram

MEGALADON said:


> Okay and thanks



If you want to spend $1500 on your gaming setup for console surround, get a G6 or an X7 and an HD800S.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 6, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> In terms of hardware solutions, I think the sennheiser gsx series looks the best. Well written instructions and intuitive controls. The ae5 looked like it had good audio performance, but they shot themselves in the foot by only having 5.1 surround sound support, and the software is relatively hard to use and there are no instructions. On the Creative side of things, I actually think the super xfi amp looks good.



It has virtual 7.1 right? I mean i'm only using on headphones no speaker usage on this machine.

Oh and now there is this:

https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blasterx-ae-5-plus

I'm starting to think it's either a fiio (friend said k3) or G6 (@Chastity how do you find yours). I'm only going to be using headphones, no speaker setup on this pc. Which do you think is the better of those? As said above my main game outputs surround already.

I appreciate all your help btw.


----------



## MEGALADON

Chastity said:


> My setup for gaming/music/movie is about $1200
> 
> SMSL M300 MKII DAC, Asgard 3 amp, FX-Audio TUBE-01 tube buffer w/ GE JAN 5654W tubes, DT-1990 Pro, Dekoni Elite Velour pads for DT, Creative G6 (currently using a software virtualizer instead)


I have to get software too... Dang, I'm really behind.



illram said:


> If you want to spend $1500 on your gaming setup for console surround, get a G6 or an X7 and an HD800S.


What are x7 and HD800?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Creative X7 and Sennheiser HD 800


----------



## MEGALADON

Fegefeuer said:


> Creative X7 and Sennheiser HD 800


Will they work on ps4?


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> It has virtual 7.1 right? I mean i'm only using on headphones no speaker usage on this machine.


To get games to output 7.1, usually you have to set windows speaker configuration to 7.1. With the ae5, you can only set it to 5.1. So you'll be limited to virtual 5.1 generally.


----------



## mindbomb

MEGALADON said:


> I'm trying to get into open back headphones because the gaming headsets suck. I don't know what direction to take as in headphones, amp, dac. It's all new to me. Unsure as to what works and doesn't work with the ps4.


At this point, wait for the ps5 and see how that changes the situation.


----------



## Alexious

Did anyone here get to try the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 2nd gen with the personalized spatial audio by Immerse (sounds akin to Creative SX-Fi on paper)?


----------



## Mmoyeti

mindbomb said:


> To get games to output 7.1, usually you have to set windows speaker configuration to 7.1. With the ae5, you can only set it to 5.1. So you'll be limited to virtual 5.1 generally.



 Ah ok, I'm actually thinking I prefer an external, so looking at the G6 or Fiio K3.


----------



## PurpleAngel

MEGALADON said:


> Will they work on ps4?


Yea, they would work on a PS4, but I can't see the X7 offering any advantages, over the Creative G6, with a gaming console (PS4).



mindbomb said:


> To get games to output 7.1, usually you have to set windows speaker configuration to 7.1. With the ae5, you can only set it to 5.1. So you'll be limited to virtual 5.1 generally.


He is using a gaming console (PS4), not a Windows PC.


----------



## MEGALADON

PurpleAngel said:


> Yea, they would work on a PS4, but I can't see the X7 offering any advantages, over the Creative G6, with a gaming console (PS4).


I see, I see


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> Ah ok, I'm actually thinking I prefer an external, so looking at the G6 or Fiio K3.


The fiio doesn't have any headphone processing.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 6, 2020)

Yeah @mindbomb that's the only thing. I mean for now the main game I play outputs binaural stereo surround (Hunt Showdown), so I'd be turning processing off for that probably. Though do I want it for future games? I mean I can hear direction in that game now with crappy onboard sound and hyper x cloud 2's (not using usb card as i've a splitter setup so my boy can plug in and listen).

*https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/binaural-audio-in-hunt-showdown*

By the way if you enjoy sound in games, Hunt is amazing for it.

That's then raises the question, for future games, is virtual 7.1 needed? I guess it depends if the game is written for stereo sound.


----------



## mindbomb (May 6, 2020)

Mmoyeti said:


> That's then raises the question, for future games, is virtual 7.1 needed?


The hunt is one exception in that it comes with binaural audio. In most other cases, to get a similar level of spatial quality, you would have to use surround sound from the game into a surround>binaural converter, which is the things like dolby headphone, sbx surround, sennheiser binaural rendering. This applies to several big titles now, like Fortnite, Apex Legends, and Valorant. It will be interesting to see how things shape up in the future, if more games will come with a binaural converter or if they will need to be provided by the end user.

Since the inception of this thread about a decade ago, we have all been praising what binaural audio can do for headphone gaming. However, it has been a controversial position, with people often alleging that traditional stereo on headphones with a good soundstage is somehow magically better than a binaural mix. The interesting thing about The Hunt is that they took away the choice from users and only provided a binaural mix, and people ended up really loving the audio in that game.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Yeah the audio so something else. After a couple of weeks of playing your brain is tuned to it. You hear more sounds and that's with my hyper x. So looking forward to my new 702's with an an amp/dac.

Sounds like I need to get the g6. If I'm right for hunt I'd turn it to direct mode as the game handles the sound?

Although the g6 is out of stock, left it a few hours too late.

Notify form filled in.


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## Chastity (May 6, 2020)

After further testing, I've discovered a couple of limitations using the Creative G6 as a virtualizer for the SMSL:

1) SPDIF-Out is limited to 48KHz, despite being noted as supporting 24/96.

2) The resampling it does for the SPDIF-Out is mediocre at best, and darkens the audio, and affects tonality.

So the G6 is removed from my audio-out chain.  I am still using it for mic duties, because my PC case is to far from where I sit.  Fortunately, Sonic Studio III works great for the SMSL, and does a better job on my DVD-A sources for headphones than SBX did.  (SS3 will work with the sources original bitdepth and sampling)  I need to use a Windows Spatial Audio app for games that do not support forcing 7.1.  Fortunately I have licenses for both Dolby Access and DTS Headphone:X.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 7, 2020)

@Chastity I'm wondering if i get the g6 or just something like a fiio/schiit and use software for 7.1. What apps/software would i need? Dolby Atmos?

I mean i'll just be using headphone out for games.

My motherboard isn't on the list for sonic studio 3 so that's out.

I'm reading up on the software options now. Windows sonic, Dolby access or DTS sound unbound. What are those like? Sorry i'm new to this so trying to read up as well as ask you guys here.

I am crap at deciding but basically i think it's down to the following to go with my 702's :-
g6 (£130)
x3 (£109)

fiio k3 (£85) with software for VSS
schiit fula (£105) with software for VSS

Unless there are other amp suggestions. G6 price is about my limit right now as i've just had to buy a ton of other stuff.


----------



## tirrorex

Hello guys,
So after much reading i'm going to buy the akg k702 for competitive fps (i have my home cinema for everything else) even though i worry that the headband will become a bit loose with time (though i have a big head so it might not be a problem ahah).
My motherboard is an asus maximus xi extreme, should i use the headset in stereo or use it with a virtual surround solution like the free hesuvi software ?
Considering i switch my devices (i use e-arc from my oled tv to my denon receiver and configured the hdmi output to dolby atmos) will i run into issues?

The impedance on the k702 is quite low compared to the dt990, i thought the higher the better ?
Thanks


----------



## Fegefeuer

HeSuVi is free, why don't you just try it and see for yourself?


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> I'm reading up on the software options now. Windows sonic, Dolby access or DTS sound unbound. What are those like? Sorry i'm new to this so trying to read up as well as ask you guys here.


The issue with the windows spatial sound stuff is that it doesn't work with all games. So that has to be checked on a case by case basis. You can do this by clicking on the volume icon, where it will tell you if the processing is on. https://imgur.com/a/4hLoHao



tirrorex said:


> My motherboard is an asus maximus xi extreme, should i use the headset in stereo or use it with a virtual surround solution like the free hesuvi software ?



I don't see the advantage of using stereo. It just brings imaging problems because it just lumps everything left into the left speaker, and everything right into the right speaker. This approach causes problems by not differentiating front and back. Along with this, there can be issues with "dead zones" in stereo if it is assumed that people are using front speakers. Both these problems can be solved by using virtual surround sound. It is observable in this video comparing stereo to in-game virtual surround sound in pubg.


----------



## Mmoyeti

@mindbomb So you think a G6 is going to be better than a k3/fulla 3 with software?


----------



## John_M

tirrorex said:


> Hello guys,
> So after much reading i'm going to buy the akg k702 for competitive fps (i have my home cinema for everything else) even though i worry that the headband will become a bit loose with time (though i have a big head so it might not be a problem ahah).
> My motherboard is an asus maximus xi extreme, should i use the headset in stereo or use it with a virtual surround solution like the free hesuvi software ?
> Considering i switch my devices (i use e-arc from my oled tv to my denon receiver and configured the hdmi output to dolby atmos) will i run into issues?
> ...



I don't understand why people who are playing something like COD competitively don't just get a Realiser. It is a big advantage assuming of course that you have a high quality sound room to record in - way better than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Probably as very few "competitive" players actually make enough money to spend $4k on it.


----------



## John_M

Mmoyeti said:


> Probably as very few "competitive" players actually make enough money to spend $4k on it.



You should be able to pick up a used A8 for much less than this.  Even in the few games which use Atmos I don't think it's much of an advantage.

Used Realiser + second hand HD800 would give anyone a massive advantage IF they have access to the right sound room to record in. I'm playing on a Realiser myself and I should note that there is a big difference between sound rooms... One is excellent but another is very bassy to the point of barely being any better than Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mmoyeti

John_M said:


> You should be able to pick up a used A8 for much less than this.  Even in the few games which use Atmos I don't think it's much of an advantage.
> 
> Used Realiser + second hand HD800 would give anyone a massive advantage IF they have access to the right sound room to record in. I'm playing on a Realiser myself and I should note that there is a big difference between sound rooms... One is excellent but another is very bassy to the point of barely being any better than Dolby Headphone.




Nice, I'm not a competitive gamer, just a streamer of fps games. Bought some k702's and deciding on an amp. I dont have a huge budget right now, can change that later. For now I'm after something like a g6 or maybe fiio k3/schiit fula woth software for vss. Leaning to the g6.


----------



## John_M

Mmoyeti said:


> Nice, I'm not a competitive gamer, just a streamer of fps games. Bought some k702's and deciding on an amp. I dont have a huge budget right now, can change that later. For now I'm after something like a g6 or maybe fiio k3/schiit fula woth software for vss. Leaning to the g6.



If you're streaming COD a Realiser would definitely help you get better gameplays (and hopefully more followers). I have to repeat again the massive caveat about getting a personal recording in a good sound room with accurate speakers... with the wrong sound room it might be a waste of money. I haven't even tried other people's recordings with gaming but they may not be any good.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 7, 2020)

Mostly hunt showdown atm. That game outputs 3d sound.

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/binaural-audio-in-hunt-showdown

I also don't have the budget for a realiser. As nice as they sound.

My friend insists I should get a good dac/amp and use software for vss. I'm torn between that and a g6.


----------



## illram

Mmoyeti said:


> Nice, I'm not a competitive gamer, just a streamer of fps games. Bought some k702's and deciding on an amp. I dont have a huge budget right now, can change that later. For now I'm after something like a g6 or maybe fiio k3/schiit fula woth software for vss. Leaning to the g6.



Darin Fong's Out of Your Head software is free to try for 7 days and is basically a bunch of different Realiser room recordings. Despite the fact you are not getting the full Realiser experience because it is not using your personal tuned HRTF (the main benefit of the Realiser) the $24.99 (price last time I checked) "Game" preset room is very very good, and it is coming out of your computer so you can use it with whatever you want. Way better than Windows Sonic or Atmos for Headphones or DTS or Dolby Headphone.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Ah nice! Yeah i'm now learning back to a pure dac/amp and software solution, especially as my main game already outputs binaural stereo sound @illram. 

Thanks for your tip.

I'm unsure if my onboard sound which is a couple of years old (Realtek® ALC887) supports 7.1 output.

In the online manual it says "The ALC887 is a 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio Codec with two independent SPDIF outputs. Featuring eight channels of DAC support 7.1 sound playback, and integrates two stereo ADC that can support a stereo microphone, and feature Acoustic Echo Cancellation (AEC), Beam Forming (BF), and Noise Suppression (NS) for voice applications."

So does that mean i could use a usb dac/amp with hesuvi or other software and set it to 7.1 in windows? If i set the speaker config to 7.1 at the moment with my headphones in, I don't hear anything other than L and R. Is that just because my headphones only have that, but software would work with it?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mmoyeti said:


> I'm unsure if my onboard sound which is a couple of years old (Realtek® ALC887) supports 7.1 output.
> In the online manual it says "The ALC887 is a 7.1 Channel High Definition Audio Codec with two independent SPDIF outputs. Featuring eight channels of DAC support 7.1 sound playback, and integrates two stereo ADC that can support a stereo microphone, and feature Acoustic Echo Cancellation (AEC), Beam Forming (BF), and Noise Suppression (NS) for voice applications."
> So does that mean i could use a usb dac/amp with hesuvi or other software and set it to 7.1 in windows? If i set the speaker config to 7.1 at the moment with my headphones in, I don't hear anything other than L and R. Is that just because my headphones only have that, but software would work with it?


USB bypasses sound card (onboard or add-on) features.


----------



## illram

Your onboard is irrelevant and all these 7.1 software solutions basically just create new "fake" speaker outputs which you then select as your sound device to output to whatever dac/amp you want.


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> So does that mean i could use a usb dac/amp with hesuvi or other software and set it to 7.1 in windows? If i set the speaker config to 7.1 at the moment with my headphones in, I don't hear anything other than L and R. Is that just because my headphones only have that, but software would work with it?


You might want to buy just a headphone amp with no dac, because the 7.1 support of the onboard audio is convenient for hesuvi. Generally, games are going to check the windows setting to decide what to output. So you are supposed to set it to 7.1, and then hesuvi can take that 7.1 from the game and convert it to binaural.

When you buy a dac, most of the time they only support 2 channels. So you have to do an extra step where you make a fake sound device that supports 7.1.


----------



## MEGALADON

What's a realiser? And people are gaming with headphones and speakers? Man, I've been away for a while.


----------



## Mmoyeti

mindbomb said:


> When you buy a dac, most of the time they only support 2 channels. So you have to do an extra step where you make a fake sound device that supports 7.1.



Thanks for the info. So that's what something like the g6 does with sbx? Basically makes a fake sound device. Makes sense now. 

My concern was that the onboard sound just isn't great for 702's and a dac would give me better quality sound. That's why I looked at the g6 as it had the amp/dac and virtual surround. Or I also looked at the ae5 initially as well.



illram said:


> Your onboard is irrelevant and all these 7.1 software solutions basically just create new "fake" speaker outputs which you then select as your sound device to output to whatever dac/amp you want.



Ah so if I had an amp/dac it can give me the increased sound quality from the fake 7.1 device still? 

I'm so confused on what to go for lol. 

Can't decide what's best. G6/ae5 or something like a fula/k3


----------



## mindbomb

Mmoyeti said:


> Thanks for the info. So that's what something like the g6 does with sbx? Basically makes a fake sound device. Makes sense now.
> 
> My concern was that the onboard sound just isn't great for 702's and a dac would give me better quality sound. That's why I looked at the g6 as it had the amp/dac and virtual surround. Or I also looked at the ae5 initially as well.


I mean, no, the g6 actually supports setting windows to 7.1. So you wouldn't have to use workaround to do that. What sbx does is converts the 7.1 into binaural audio like you have in The Hunt. Making a fake sound device is the workaround for dacs that don't support 7.1, so that you can feed 7.1 audio into a binaural converter. The reason you want to do this is that 7.1 is a format with more information where front and back sounds are separated.

Even if you buy just a headphone amp, the sound quality goes up because with the analog volume control of the headphone amp, you can put out a larger signal from the onboard audio, which will result in a better signal to noise ratio.


----------



## PurpleAngel (May 8, 2020)

Mmoyeti said:


> Ah so if I had an amp/dac it can give me the increased sound quality from the fake 7.1 device still?
> I'm so confused on what to go for lol. Can't decide what's best. G6/ae5 or something like a fula/k3


Connecting a DAC (DAC/amp) to the optical output of your motherboard will allow you to use any headphone surround sound feature your on-board audio offers.
For $30 you can get Creative Labs headphone surround sound software (SBX Headphone), that will work off your onboard audio.
Me, I would buy a used Creative Labs AE-5.


----------



## mindbomb

PurpleAngel said:


> Connecting a DAC (DAC/amp) to the optical output of your motherboard will allow you to use any headphone surround sound feature your on-board audio offers.


Will it? To me, it is uncertain that the motherboard software will have a feature to copy the processing to the optical output. And I haven't vetted motherboard solutions to make sure they are configured properly with windows set to 7.1.


----------



## PurpleAngel

mindbomb said:


> I mean, no, the g6 actually supports setting windows to 7.1. So you wouldn't have to use workaround to do that. What sbx does is converts the 7.1 into binaural audio like you have in The Hunt. Making a fake sound device is the workaround for dacs that don't support 7.1, so that you can feed 7.1 audio into a binaural converter. The reason you want to do this is that 7.1 is a format with more information where front and back sounds are separated. Even if you buy just a headphone amp, the sound quality goes up because with the analog volume control of the headphone amp,
> you can put out a larger signal from the onboard audio, which will result in a better signal to noise ratio.


There is the faked virtual 5.1 or 7.1 headphone surround sound.
Then there is Creative's SBX, that can take in a 5.1 (6-channel) from the source (game or movie) and convert it in 2-channel of headphone surround sound, that 2-channel audio is then sent to the headphones.
Dolby Headphone will basically work the same as the Creative SBX.


----------



## illram

Mmoyeti said:


> Ah so if I had an amp/dac it can give me the increased sound quality from the fake 7.1 device still?
> 
> I'm so confused on what to go for lol.
> 
> Can't decide what's best. G6/ae5 or something like a fula/k3



I don't know much about the AE5 but the G6 is a competent little device and not a bad amp/dac in its own right, even if you don't use SBX. Give it a shot, and if the SBX doesn't work for you try something else. You can still use the G6 as your headphone source for whatever surround software you decide to feed it from your PC and it will sound just fine with most headphones. It even has a nifty equalizer if you're into that.

Alternatively if you want to save $50 and are confident something like HeSuVi will be sufficient, just get the fulla.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 8, 2020)

Thanks @PurpleAngel @mindbomb and @illram thats helped a lot. Why ae5 over g6 purple?

Also it seems there is now the ae5 plus. Any of you seen that?

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5-plus

I am crap at deciding on things. I know my onboard won't drive the 702's and not sure I want an internal card, although if that's best then sure (have to dig out a spare molex).

A friend kept saying I don't need 7.1. I mean I don't need it for hunt showdown but other games might benefit in future. Especially as I like to play fps often.

Just a tough choice between the g6/ae5 and the k3/fulla 3. Or maybe internal vs external and then vss support via software or via hardware.

It does sound like the g6 is a good fit as it does all that the ae5 does and has the benefit of an external easy to use setup (as I won't be needing speakers). Plus the fact it allows Windows to be set to 7.1 and sbx handles that. Would I have to set windows to 2.0 if playing a game like hunt that outputs binaural already? 


I'm honestly going back and forth all day. My headphones will be here before I order an amp lol.


----------



## Wintersun2015

For stereo gaming(FPS) w/ DT 1990s should i get the Schiit Magni 3+ or Heresy ? Does it makes any a difference ?

Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

mindbomb said:


> Will it? To me, it is uncertain that the motherboard software will have a feature to copy the processing to the optical output. And I haven't vetted motherboard solutions to make sure they are configured properly with windows set to 7.1.





Mmoyeti said:


> Thanks @PurpleAngel @mindbomb and @illram that's helped a lot. Why ae5 over g6 purple? Ae5 needs a molex connector I think internally, I'd have to dig out my spare cables lol. Also it seems there is now the ae5 plus. Any of you seen that?
> https://us.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blasterx-ae-5-plus
> I think for my use case as in work as well as home gaming, an external is prob best.


A sound card plugged into the motherboard's PCI-E slot will have access to more power, like for driving headphones.
But if you prefer to go with a Creative Labs USB sound card (AE-5 or other), go for it, as it seems to have more of what your looking for anyway.
The newer AE-5 plus comes with DDL (Dolby Digital Live) and DTS-Connect software, which can encode (compress) up to 6 audio channels (5.1) of digital audio, allowing that audio to pass thru S/PDIF (optical/coaxial).
The compressed audio is maxed out at 24-bit/48K, which is still very practical for most uses, but the device receiving that encoded audio would also need DDL or DTS-Connect to decode the audio back to PCM.
Otherwise S/PDIF optical/coaxial will only pass 2-channels of un-compressed (PCM) digital audio, but that audio can be 24-bit/96K or 24-bit/192K.
If you connected a optical DAC/amp, for headphone use, you would only need the 2-channel to pass thru S/PDIF anyway.



Wintersun2015 said:


> For stereo gaming(FPS) w/ DT 1990s should i get the Schiit Magni 3+ or Heresy ? Does it makes any a difference ?
> Thanks


The Magni 3 is a headphone amplifier only, the Heresy is a USB DAC/amp.
But if your only going to be working with stereo (2.0) audio, USB is fine.
If you went with the Magni 3, you would also need a DAC, unless your going to use your motherboard's built in DAC function.


----------



## Mmoyeti

PurpleAngel said:


> A sound card plugged into the motherboard's PCI-E slot will have access to more power, like for driving headphones.
> But if you prefer to go with a Creative Labs USB sound card (AE-5 or other), go for it, as it seems to have more of what your looking for anyway.
> The newer AE-5 plus comes with DDL (Dolby Digital Live) and DTS-Connect software, which can encode (compress) up to 6 audio channels (5.1) of digital audio, allowing that audio to pass thru S/PDIF (optical/coaxial).
> The compressed audio is maxed out at 24-bit/48K, which is still very practical for most uses, but the device receiving that encoded audio would also need DDL or DTS-Connect to decode the audio back to PCM.
> ...



Thanks @PurpleAngel. With the g6 if I am playing Hunt which outputs binaural do I set windows to 2.0 and then windows to 7.1 when I want to use sbx? Or just leave windows on 7.1 and turn sbx off when playing hunt?


----------



## Chastity

Mmoyeti said:


> Thanks @PurpleAngel. With the g6 if I am playing Hunt which outputs binaural do I set windows to 2.0 and then windows to 7.1 when I want to use sbx? Or just leave windows on 7.1 and turn sbx off when playing hunt?


Probably best to set to 2.0 and turn off Acoustic Engine, or use Direct Mode.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mmoyeti said:


> Thanks @PurpleAngel. With the g6 if I am playing Hunt which outputs binaural do I set windows to 2.0 and then windows to 7.1 when I want to use sbx? Or just leave windows on 7.1 and turn sbx off when playing hunt?


You would want the source, Hunt, to output 6-channels (5.1).
Set the SB-G6 for taking in 6-channels.
And set the G6 for Headphone output.
Enable SBX.
But I normally do not use Creative sound cards, so my directions are somewhat generic.


----------



## mindbomb

PurpleAngel said:


> the device receiving that encoded audio would also need DDL or DTS-Connect to decode the audio back to PCM.


Well, they would need a dts or dolby digital decoder. DDL and DTS connect are encoders.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 8, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> You would want the source, Hunt, to output 6-channels (5.1).
> Set the SB-G6 for taking in 6-channels.
> And set the G6 for Headphone output.
> Enable SBX.
> But I normally do not use Creative sound cards, so my directions are somewhat generic.




Really? I thought as hunt outputs binaural sound I'd just put the g6 in direct mode and have Windows on 2.0 as its meant for stereo headphones. Shows how much I need the advice from you guys.

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/binaural-audio-in-hunt-showdown

Is the audio info for the game.

Also @PurpleAngel, out of interest what is your setup for gaming? Do you use Virtual 7.1 of any kind?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mmoyeti said:


> Really? I thought as hunt outputs binaural sound I'd just put the g6 in direct mode and have Windows on 2.0 as its meant for stereo headphones. Shows how much I need the advice from you guys.
> https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/binaural-audio-in-hunt-showdown
> Is the audio info for the game.


Did not know Hunt itself processed the audio into headphone surround sound (or faked virtual surround sound)?
So yea, just set (for Hunt) the SB G6 for 2-channel input and 2-channel output (SBX disabled).
I'm not into FPS gaming, I play a 15 year old game called Command & Conquer Generals/Zero Hour.


----------



## Mmoyeti

PurpleAngel said:


> Did not know Hunt itself processed the audio into headphone surround sound (or faked virtual surround sound)?
> So yea, just set (for Hunt) the SB G6 for 2-channel input and 2-channel output (SBX disabled).
> I'm not into FPS gaming, I play a 15 year old game called Command & Conquer Generals/Zero Hour.




Thanks, yeah I remember that game. 😁 For games that don't say what they output is there a way to find out? Or just simple research? 

My friend argued I don't need virtual 7.1 as I play Hunt. He has 702's and a fulla 2 plus a go Xlr mini. I mean I'll play other games too in future, but part of my confusion has been whether to go down the creative route or just a good dac/amp and software. 2 kids means I can't throw loads of cash at this stage so trying to get the right match for me and my incoming 702's. I really appreciate everyone's patience here and help on this.

Now to find the g6 in stock I guess. 😁


----------



## Rozzko

What the 3 best closed headphones , under 500$? For PS4 games. Only about closed headphones


----------



## Chastity

Rozzko said:


> What the 3 best closed headphones , under 500$? For PS4 games. Only about closed headphones


I would definitely put the DT-1770 Pro on the short list


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 9, 2020)

G6 stock isn't easy to find atm.

I'm still considering a fulla, k3 or similar and using of your head or similar software. Damn my indecisive brain.

Watched some reviews and when I got to the g6 software bit I was like... "that sounds like a pain, how do I know what's right" lol.

Also has anyone used the "gamer" version of the Out of your head software?


----------



## Chastity

Mmoyeti said:


> Also has anyone used the "gamer" version of the Out of your head software?


Yes, and it is bad.  Lots of spatial reverb.  Kind of does what they claim, but lolwtf.


----------



## Mmoyeti

Chastity said:


> Yes, and it is bad.  Lots of spatial reverb.  Kind of does what they claim, but lolwtf.



I'll keep an eye for some g6 stock then. Maybe even grab a b grade one if I'm lucky. Can you believe I had one in my basket and took too long? 😁

Some people saying the software the g6 runs on is being superceded by something new that won't support the g6?

*edit*

Found this for anyone else that comes across the info about the software.



> **2d) SB Command Support**
> 
> **03/24**: We will be working toward adding support for Sound BlasterX G6 in SB Command. We are targeting to have the official support out by Sep 2020, and to have beta version ready for testing at around June 2020.


----------



## Chastity

Mmoyeti said:


> I'll keep an eye for some g6 stock then. Maybe even grab a b grade one if I'm lucky. Can you believe I had one in my basket and took too long? 😁
> 
> Some people saying the software the g6 runs on is being superceded by something new that won't support the g6?
> 
> ...


G6 currently uses Connect 2.  Command will be released according to the schedule you listed.  For software solutions, Windows Sonic API/apps work for games just fine. (like Dolby Access / DTS Headphone:X)  For my 5.1 audio, I find Sonic Studio III doing the best mix.  I'd be curious if someone would link me where to get the SoundBlaster MB softwares.  Creative's site is a nightmare to navigate.  HeSuVi is starting to look better to me, but I hate that app.


----------



## illram (May 9, 2020)

Gamer preset sounded fine to me, personally, but this is a subjective thing. It's free to try for 7 days so no harm in giving it a shot to see how it sounds to you. There is reverb to the extent it is mimicking speakers in a room but I did not find it overly reverby. On the same token I have never found Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos for headphones sufficient for accurate rear cues. When they do work they put rear audio right under the back of my head, like the sound is coming from the skin of the back of my neck. There is no space to it, and there are no front cues. It's not well defined. And I found DTS unusable due to it sounding like I was in a giant tin can, maybe they updated it?

Creative does not offer SBX for download to try; they have different versions of their virtual surround software, and there is one you can download and try but it is not the SBX they use on the G6 or X7 and it sounds terrible.

To my ears the best rear cues in a virtual surround solution you can get right now would be using the Creative Super X-Fi device. If you're on PC look into that?


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> Gamer preset sounded fine to me, personally, but this is a subjective thing. It's free to try for 7 days so no harm in giving it a shot to see how it sounds to you. There is reverb to the extent it is mimicking speakers in a room but I did not find it overly reverby. On the same token I have never found Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos for headphones sufficient for accurate rear cues. When they do work they put rear audio right under the back of my head, like the sound is coming from the skin of the back of my neck. There is no space to it, and there are no front cues. It's not well defined. And I found DTS unusable due to it sounding like I was in a giant tin can, maybe they updated it?
> 
> Creative does not offer SBX for download to try; they have different versions of their virtual surround software, and there is one you can download and try but it is not the SBX they use on the G6 or X7 and it sounds terrible.
> 
> To my ears the best rear cues in a virtual surround solution you can get right now would be using the Creative Super X-Fi device. If you're on PC look into that?


If I knew the X3 supported 96KHz over toslink, I'd consider getting one of those, and use it as a virtualizer


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 9, 2020)

@illram @Chastity is the x3 worth considering? Would it power 702's? Cheaper than the g6 on amazon, though I'd not use half the inputs.

 I need to order something but can't decide lol.

You guys are patient with me. 😁

I hear mixed reports of software for binaural/7.1 with a standard dac/amp. In that sense it would be a k3 or fulla for my budget I think.

The g6 seems to fit but I've seen reports of software issues and other issues people have had. I did look at the x3 but people seemed to suggest the g6 is better.

My use is gaming and headphones only. Current game outputs binaural but I'm also thinking future games in mind.

Just not sure what's best lol, so many things to think about.


----------



## Chastity

Mmoyeti said:


> @illram @Chastity is the x3 worth considering? Would it power 702's? Cheaper than the g6 on amazon, though I'd not use half the inputs.
> 
> I need to order something but can't decide lol.
> 
> ...


1)  Do you want just 7.1 Virtual, or do you also want to play with Super X-Fi?
2) Do you plan on using a dedicated amp?

If I was planning on using a dedicated amp, then the unit is being used just as a DAC and virtualizer.  Then the X3 may be a better choice.  If you want to use it as an AIO component, then the G6 is better for the stronger amp.

Personally, I'd do X3 + an amp, like an JDS Atom or Schiit Magni 3+ / Heresy.  This way the amp allows for a wider selection of headphones.


----------



## illram (May 10, 2020)

Look at the X-Fi dongle if you don't need X3 connectivity. In fact I have read that the dongle actually sounds better, although that may be a firmware issue that will get fixed.

I have the dongle. I have used it with a 7XX in the past and it drives it fine. I used it with HD800S for a while and it drove those fine too. (I can only speak to gaming purposes). Plenty of power. I currently have it hooked up to my Koss E90 estat amp for my 950's just using the headphone out (it has no lineout, keep that in mind), and it's great.

If anyone has said SBX virtual surround sounds better than the X-Fi then either they didn't do the calibration properly or they may have listened to it a long time ago (when it was very reverby and tin can sounding, they fixed that). Its virtual surround is another tier because it is calibrated. It sounds very convincing.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 10, 2020)

@Chastity @illram thanks for the replies.

Not sure on super xfi or sbx or other vss software. Haven't heard any so far.

Options seem to be :

K3 (£85)/fulla 3 (£105) plus software and maybe later added xfi dongle or x3.

Standalone options :

G6 (£130)

X3 (£109)/dongle (£99) lacks vol dial

I want something nice and simple that fits my needs and I can expand on later if needed. X3 hardware doesn't appear as good as the g6 though. 

If I ever meet you guys after this I owe you many beers. My stream viewers are sick of me talking about this too. 😁


----------



## illram

Mmoyeti said:


> @Chastity @illram thanks for the replies.
> 
> Not sure on super xfi or sbx or other vss software. Haven't heard any so far.
> 
> ...


Dongle has volume buttons.

I have the G6 and the dongle and I can tell you the VSS overrides any sonic differences in quality of their amps, if there is any. Put another way it's the quality of the VSS you should be concentrating on first here. And for that, X-Fi wins vs the G6. G6 does have better connectivity though as it has a line out but personally my G6 is sitting unused on a shelf while my X-Fi gets used every day when gaming.


----------



## Mmoyeti

I guess I'm concerned that the dongle and/or x3 won't power the k702. Would be nice to get more of an idea on the exact differences other than the vss differences. Not saying I don't trust you.😁 Just wondering why the g6 is more expensive than the x3/dongle.

Is the x3 worth £10 more than the dongle? That's the difference in price atm. 

Or you can sell me your g6. 🤣


----------



## mindbomb

The dongle has like 3v output. It will power pretty much everything.


----------



## illram

Mmoyeti said:


> I guess I'm concerned that the dongle and/or x3 won't power the k702. Would be nice to get more of an idea on the exact differences other than the vss differences. Not saying I don't trust you.😁 Just wondering why the g6 is more expensive than the x3/dongle.
> 
> Is the x3 worth £10 more than the dongle? That's the difference in price atm.
> 
> Or you can sell me your g6. 🤣


Yeah dongle has 3.9v output and it can get my 7XX to ear bleeding levels before I get to 50 on the Windows dial. I think the 7XX is similar to the 702 power wise (maybe the same? Too lazy to look it up). It is plenty for your cans.

 If you turn off all processing it is a very clean sounding amp.


----------



## Chastity

FYI:  u/Creative_Colin over on Creative's Reddit confirmed that the G6's toslink maxes out at 24/48.  Meh.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 11, 2020)

Ok @Chastity thanks for that. A question then, the x3 and the dongle are the same price in the UK, is the dongle the better choice if both cost the same? No info on the dac inside the x3 but for the dongle it's listed on the site.

Also you suggested the X3 and an amp? Is that required as @illram says the dongle powered his 702's fine.

Also where you do find the approved headphones list for super x-fi?

Now a friend is offering me a zen-dac he was given but he doesn't need. Is that a good dac/amp?


----------



## Alexious

Alexious said:


> Did anyone here get to try the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 2nd gen with the personalized spatial audio by Immerse (sounds akin to Creative SX-Fi on paper)?



Quoting myself to see if anyone can help.


----------



## MEGALADON

Chastity said:


> My setup for gaming/music/movie is about $1200
> 
> SMSL M300 MKII DAC, Asgard 3 amp, FX-Audio TUBE-01 tube buffer w/ GE JAN 5654W tubes, DT-1990 Pro, Dekoni Elite Velour pads for DT, Creative G6 (currently using a software virtualizer instead)


I'm just seeing this. You have confused me even more. Pre amps? Tubes? Does it work on ps4? I'm thinking about upgrading but I heard that the ps5 will have 3d audio. I don't mind spending money but I'm not sure if this would be a waste.


----------



## Chastity

MEGALADON said:


> I'm just seeing this. You have confused me even more. Pre amps? Tubes? Does it work on ps4? I'm thinking about upgrading but I heard that the ps5 will have 3d audio. I don't mind spending money but I'm not sure if this would be a waste.


I wanted a better sounding system than just what the consumer soundcard offerings give.  So I kept everything modular so I can grow my system over time.  Can it work with a PS4? Sure, but I am looking for a replacement virtualizer since I've discovered the G6 is limited to 48KHz out on it's toslink.  And the tube preamp really takes the system to a higher level, and I gain raise the gain on the Line-Out from my DAC to better match my amp.

The nice thing about this setup is that I can ignore things like DAC quality and amp ability of these USB devices, and simply focus on virtualizer options.



Mmoyeti said:


> Ok @Chastity thanks for that. A question then, the x3 and the dongle are the same price in the UK, is the dongle the better choice if both cost the same? No info on the dac inside the x3 but for the dongle it's listed on the site.


The DAC on the X3 is an AK4456 iirc.  As for any questions about the dongle, I cannot answer as I do not have one.  Besides it's useless for my setup since I want a virtualizer that outputs a digital signal, so that I can use my better standalone DAC.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Chastity said:


> G6 currently uses Connect 2.  Command will be released according to the schedule you listed.  For software solutions, Windows Sonic API/apps work for games just fine. (like Dolby Access / DTS Headphone:X)  For my 5.1 audio, I find Sonic Studio III doing the best mix.  I'd be curious if someone would link me where to get the SoundBlaster MB softwares.  Creative's site is a nightmare to navigate.  HeSuVi is starting to look better to me, but I hate that app.



Not sure what's wrong with HeSuVi, been using it for a year or so without issues.


----------



## Radio81

I really liked the Turtle Beach TAC (DTS:X Headphone) + Magni 3 & Loki combo when I used it for PS4.  The Turtle Beach's amp section is too weak on it's own even with 32-ohm cans.


----------



## Radio81

MEGALADON said:


> I'm just seeing this. You have confused me even more. Pre amps? Tubes? Does it work on ps4? I'm thinking about upgrading but I heard that the ps5 will have 3d audio. I don't mind spending money but I'm not sure if this would be a waste.



I'm speculating the PS5 will have 3D audio processing at the software level.  I believe things like mixamps will still work via USB.  Since the surround audio will be processed by the console, there will not be a need for optical out.  -That's just my theory.  I really hope they still include an optical out.

If 3D audio is processed at the console and can be sent via USB, it means headsets that are only stereo on PS4 will effectively be surround on PS5.  For instance, the Logitech G533 headset I own.  Great surround PC headset, but on PS4 is stereo only (PS4 is stereo only via USB), and I just can't do stereo only for gaming.

I've read the PS5 full detail is possibly coming early June.  I hope we'll know more by then.


----------



## MEGALADON

Radio81 said:


> I'm speculating the PS5 will have 3D audio processing at the software level.  I believe things like mixamps will still work via USB.  Since the surround audio will be processed by the console, there will not be a need for optical out.  -That's just my theory.  I really hope they still include an optical out.
> 
> If 3D audio is processed at the console and can be sent via USB, it means headsets that are only stereo on PS4 will effectively be surround on PS5.  For instance, the Logitech G533 headset I own.  Great surround PC headset, but on PS4 is stereo only (PS4 is stereo only via USB), and I just can't do stereo only for gaming.
> 
> I've read the PS5 full detail is possibly coming early June.  I hope we'll know more by then.


Yeah, I like my sony platinums 3d audio. The soundstage and imaging could be better. Sony tries to make sure they're the only vendors for thier line of products. I miss my old px4 headsets. They were complete.


----------



## Radio81

I had the original Sony Gold headset up until a few years ago.  The feature set was definitely nice - VSS, battery life indicator and such available onscreen, chat/volume mix, and recessed mic.  I always wanted to try the Platinums, but not at the msrp.  The lack of good gaming headsets is what led me down the rabbit hole of going to open back headphones, modmic wireless, and a surround processor.  I do miss being fully wireless though.  Hoping there's some better surround options for PS5.


----------



## MEGALADON

Radio81 said:


> I had the original Sony Gold headset up until a few years ago.  The feature set was definitely nice - VSS, battery life indicator and such available onscreen, chat/volume mix, and recessed mic.  I always wanted to try the Platinums, but not at the msrp.  The lack of good gaming headsets is what led me down the rabbit hole of going to open back headphones, modmic wireless, and a surround processor.  I do miss being fully wireless though.  Hoping there's some better surround options for PS5.


I had the arctis pro wireless. They were great and then the sound got distorted.


----------



## Hemlocke

MEGALADON said:


> I had the arctis pro wireless. They were great and then the sound got distorted.


I have the Arctis 7 Wireless, and knock on wood, it has been pretty good. It's not audiophile-grade equipment, but I have not found anything else as comfortable and convenient across my PS4 and PC.


----------



## MEGALADON

Hemlocke said:


> I have the Arctis 7 Wireless, and knock on wood, it has been pretty good. It's not audiophile-grade equipment, but I have not found anything else as comfortable and convenient across my PS4 and PC.


Yeah, the wireless were outstanding. The soundstage, imaging... everything was there. Not sure what happened but they started to sound terrible.


----------



## Hemlocke

MEGALADON said:


> Yeah, the wireless were outstanding. The soundstage, imaging... everything was there. Not sure what happened but they started to sound terrible.


Mine have had some minor hiccups, but I decided to replace them before something bad happens, especially since I refuse to let Steelseries' software reside on my new computer.


----------



## MEGALADON

Chastity said:


> I wanted a better sounding system than just what the consumer soundcard offerings give.  So I kept everything modular so I can grow my system over time.  Can it work with a PS4? Sure, but I am looking for a replacement virtualizer since I've discovered the G6 is limited to 48KHz out on it's toslink.  And the tube preamp really takes the system to a higher level, and I gain raise the gain on the Line-Out from my DAC to better match my amp.
> 
> The nice thing about this setup is that I can ignore things like DAC quality and amp ability of these USB devices, and simply focus on virtualizer options.
> 
> ...


What about the g7? I've heard of x-fi or something like that. Is it possible to get 3d sound in open-back headphones? That pre amp sounds cool but is it a big difference or minimal? I'm an android user and I have not found a virtualizer yet that works.


----------



## Chastity

MEGALADON said:


> What about the g7? I've heard of x-fi or something like that. Is it possible to get 3d sound in open-back headphones? That pre amp sounds cool but is it a big difference or minimal? I'm an android user and I have not found a virtualizer yet that works.


The tube buffer kicks it up a level in overall quality, as I mentioned before.


----------



## Wintersun2015 (May 12, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> The Magni 3 is a headphone amplifier only, the Heresy is a USB DAC/amp.
> But if your only going to be working with stereo (2.0) audio, USB is fine.
> If you went with the Magni 3, you would also need a DAC, unless your going to use your motherboard's built in DAC function.



I will get the modi 3 as DAC,

I just wanted to know if there is any difference  in gaming between Magni 3+/Herery,they are both AMP.


----------



## SierraMadre

pappy97 said:


> Thank you so much for this amazing guide!  I have read a lot of it, but I am confused on one thing.  I just got a Creative G6 for exclusive use on the PS4 playing games like Warzone.  Headphones are AD700x.  Will be connecting G6 to PS4 via optical and having PS4 output DD5.1 to G6.
> 
> What settings do I need on the G6?  I assume the settings are to turn *everything* off and Dolby to *Full. *And since direct mode doesn't work on PS4, set audio effects to *Stereo, no matter how counter-intuitive that sounds.*
> 
> ...


The G6 Dolby setting / dial is just a dynamic range control (Auto-volume balancing) setting for Dolby content.


----------



## MEGALADON

I picked up the G7. I tried picking up the k712 from akg.com but it's unsuccessful. I intend to buy the 700x but am wondering is there anything that I can buy that would be close to them as far playing fps? I recently got into WWZ and dying light. I'm looking for something that can possibly be an all rounder. Any suggestions?


----------



## kashim

guys anyone had tried hesuvi software?actual make my soundblaster z useless,now wanna pair my ad700x and hesuvi virtual sorround with good amp dac for gaming only,i m planning to take fulla 3,someone have some tips or suggestions?


----------



## kashim

MEGALADON said:


> I picked up the G7. I tried picking up the k712 from akg.com but it's unsuccessful. I intend to buy the 700x but am wondering is there anything that I can buy that would be close to them as far playing fps? I recently got into WWZ and dying light. I'm looking for something that can possibly be an all rounder. Any suggestions?


i have ad700x and is great,i had k612 1year ago,switching to ad700x was awesome..more crispy and wider soundstage,but bass are baddest :/


----------



## PurpleAngel

kashim said:


> guys anyone had tried hesuvi software?actual make my soundblaster z useless,now wanna pair my ad700x and hesuvi virtual sorround with good amp dac for gaming only,i m planning to take fulla 3,someone have some tips or suggestions?


Fulla 3.


----------



## kashim

better then smsl m3 or anything else under 150/200 euro?


----------



## MEGALADON

kashim said:


> i have ad700x and is great,i had k612 1year ago,switching to ad700x was awesome..more crispy and wider soundstage,but bass are baddest :/


I see, I see... but now I need something for other games. Something more immersive.


----------



## kashim

best bet under 200 euro for immersive play(if amplied good) is dt990 250ohm,really great


----------



## Resetz

After some suggestions, I currently own the 599's and have had them for some time, they are a great all rounder but I was looking to upgrade to something that perhaps images better and has a bit more treble.

So after reading many reviews I went with the 660S now whilst they sound good, unfortunately my ears touch the foam covered drivers. Now whilst my 599's are angled I've owned many other flat headphones before and never had that issue.

From there I started digging into earcup depth of the 1990's, and found several reviews on here mentioning peoples ears were pressed up against the drivers due to the shallow and flat earcup.

So I'm looking for any recommendations for an open back pair, with excellent imaging, soundstage not nearly as important, with a good amount of depth for the ears. I'm somewhat limited as I'm in Australia so buying off Mass isn't always an option, but I should be able to source most brands fine. Looking to spend under $650 USD.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Resetz said:


> After some suggestions, I currently own the 599's and have had them for some time, they are a great all rounder but I was looking to upgrade to something that perhaps images better and has a bit more treble.
> 
> So after reading many reviews I went with the 660S now whilst they sound good, unfortunately my ears touch the foam covered drivers. Now whilst my 599's are angled I've owned many other flat headphones before and never had that issue.
> 
> ...


What sources or DAC/amp are you plugging headphones into?


----------



## Resetz

PurpleAngel said:


> What sources or DAC/amp are you plugging headphones into?



I have a GOXLR so that supports 250ohm, for the right headphones that might need more juice I'd have no problem buying something like the atom or magni3+/heresy to hook up to it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 15, 2020)

What about some AKG K702s? Pretty big cups with lots of details. You just need an amp for those to really make them shine. I don't THINK you'll have a problem with the ears touching the drivers.


----------



## Resetz

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What about some AKG K702s?



Those I have tried, one of my friends has them, or had them. Whilst I enjoyed the sound, and I found them comfortable I didn't find them particularly accurate. He has them hooked up to a Schiit stack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Resetz said:


> Those I have tried, one of my friends has them, or had them. Whilst I enjoyed the sound, and I found them comfortable I didn't find them particularly accurate. He has them hooked up to a Schiit stack.


The K612 is cheaper and more accurate sounding. I'd def think there are people that would prefer them too.


----------



## Chastity

Resetz said:


> After some suggestions, I currently own the 599's and have had them for some time, they are a great all rounder but I was looking to upgrade to something that perhaps images better and has a bit more treble.
> 
> So after reading many reviews I went with the 660S now whilst they sound good, unfortunately my ears touch the foam covered drivers. Now whilst my 599's are angled I've owned many other flat headphones before and never had that issue.
> 
> ...


The Dekoni pads for DT headphones are much deeper than the stock pads.  I also have some large ears, and I didn't have an issue with ears touching the back area with the stock pads of the DT-1990.


----------



## Resetz (May 15, 2020)

Chastity said:


> The Dekoni pads for DT headphones are much deeper than the stock pads.  I also have some large ears, and I didn't have an issue with ears touching the back area with the stock pads of the DT-1990.



Oh that's good to hear, and it doesn't change the sound profile much? Trying to source them locally do you know which ones they are, there seems to be a wide range of materials? I'd prefer something that doesn't get too hot.  I found these ones are they what you mean?  https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/dekoni-audio-elite-velour-earpads-for-beyerdynamic-dt-series


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 16, 2020)

Anyone know of a company that recables? I wanna get some PortaPros but recable them for longevity. The connection between the drivers and the cables are always what breaks first for me. So a company that can reinforce that connection would be ideal.



My problem with Dekoni pads is that they alter the sound on pretty much every headphone I've tested them on. So I'd pay attention to their published graphs to see how much or how little they change the sound. Like with the 6XX If I were looking for replacements, I'd get their velour pads which don't seem to alter the stock sound.


----------



## Resetz

Yeah I looked at the frequency responses they've published and the velour seem good. 

I've actually seen a few posts where people claim they are better than both the stock pads, for the 1990 that is. Like you say for most headphones they are often not recommended, especially the Senn 6 series.


----------



## Chastity (May 16, 2020)

Resetz said:


> Oh that's good to hear, and it doesn't change the sound profile much? Trying to source them locally do you know which ones they are, there seems to be a wide range of materials? I'd prefer something that doesn't get too hot.  I found these ones are they what you mean?  https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/products/dekoni-audio-elite-velour-earpads-for-beyerdynamic-dt-series


If you look them up on Dekoni's site, you can see FR charts comparing the pads vs stock (I would assume B pads).






The Elite Hybrids keep the overall shape, but with a big bass boost which extends to 110 Hz, which may or may not be a little bloomy in the mid bass.




These are what I have, and they keep overall to the shape, with some treble taming, esp in the 3-5KHz range, and a bit at that 8.3KHz peak.  The tubes I have compensate nicely in that 3-5KHz range, and the AK4497 is a little forward in the mids, so they all mesh very well together.  The dip in 10.5KHz - 11KHz will make the DT-1990 a little less airy.  Mind you you could compensate with EQ, but to be honest, the sound signature is fine as is, and is more bent towards a consumer signature vs a studio one.


----------



## Resetz

Chastity said:


> These are what I have, and they keep overall to the shape, with some treble taming, esp in the 3-5KHz range, and a bit at that 8.3KHz peak.  The tubes I have compensate nicely in that 3-5KHz range, and the AK4497 is a little forward in the mids, so they all mesh very well together.  The dip in 10.5KHz - 11KHz will make the DT-1990 a little less airy.  Mind you you could compensate with EQ, but to be honest, the sound signature is fine as is, and is more bent towards a consumer signature vs a studio one.



The only odd thing is on the australian site I linked they list the depth at 28mm, yet on the Dekoni site the depth is at 22mm, which is the same as the stock pads if I'm not mistaken, which means they don't really create anymore space. Are you able to confirm this?


----------



## Chastity

Resetz said:


> The only odd thing is on the australian site I linked they list the depth at 28mm, yet on the Dekoni site the depth is at 22mm, which is the same as the stock pads if I'm not mistaken, which means they don't really create anymore space. Are you able to confirm this?


it's 30mm actually    they are twice as thick as the stock pads in depth.


----------



## Resetz

Chastity said:


> it's 30mm actually    they are twice as thick as the stock pads in depth.



That's these ones? https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...set-for-beyerdynamic-dt-770-880-990-and-more/

Must just be a typo as it says 22mm. Anyway I've ordered them, so fingers crossed.


----------



## Chastity

Resetz said:


> That's these ones? https://dekoniaudio.com/product/dek...set-for-beyerdynamic-dt-770-880-990-and-more/
> 
> Must just be a typo as it says 22mm. Anyway I've ordered them, so fingers crossed.


Yeah, that image isn't right.  Those are the dimensions for the generic stock replacements they make.  The Elite pads are thicker.


----------



## Resetz

Chastity said:


> it's 30mm actually    they are twice as thick as the stock pads in depth.



I was able to source the pads from a local store here in Melbourne, they most definitely are 30mm as you said. The 1990's should arrive today or tomorrow, very exciting.


----------



## garridovic

Hi all! 
this is my first post here, but I have used this site as a reference for many years.

So I have had in the past UE 6000, then the ATH MSR7 and now I'm looking for improvement as the right channel on those stopped working a few days ago.

I have a Fiio E10K and a K3 DAC. In the past I used those headphones in the office but from now on I only use them in my house, so I don't need to worry about sound isolation or portability. I used these cans for everything: play games, music (all types of genres), films, etc. 

After looking for advice I considered that a pair of open headphones maybe be the better choice for me.

I decided to spend a maximum of 200 euros on the new "toy". I now that I like V shape headphones (that's why I always have the DAC bass boost mode on),  but I also like to have clarity and detail. I know nothing about soundstage as I never had open headphones, but I perceived improvement on the UE 6000 -> ATH MSR7 change. 

So taking all of these into account I have "reduced" the options into Philips Fidelio X2HR, SoundMagic HP200 and Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO.

I am still open to new options but, as you all now, looking for a new headphone is a total madness...

So, could you give me some help here?? 

Thanks in advance!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

if you like v shaped sound, the 990 Pro is the choice I'd make.


----------



## garridovic

Mad Lust Envy said:


> if you like v shaped sound, the 990 Pro is the choice I'd make.



First of all, thanks for your answer!
So if I pick the beyer 990 pro, what would I lose from the other models? (maybe better details, soundstage....)

Thanks again!


----------



## Radio81

Always wanted to try the 990, but prefer something with a detachable cable.  I have the X2HR and I've been happy with them for gaming.


----------



## Chastity

garridovic said:


> First of all, thanks for your answer!
> So if I pick the beyer 990 pro, what would I lose from the other models? (maybe better details, soundstage....)
> 
> Thanks again!


The Beyerdynamic Tygr 300 R is about $179 w/o the mic. Has a bit of a rep of being a baby DT-1990.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

garridovic said:


> First of all, thanks for your answer!
> So if I pick the beyer 990 pro, what would I lose from the other models? (maybe better details, soundstage....)
> 
> Thanks again!


The X2 would be a better sounding alternative. The reason I recommended the 990 over it was mainly because its more bass and treble centric, while the X2 is less so. But IMHO, the X2 is a better headphone. I haven't heard the other one, so I can't say.


----------



## Resetz (May 20, 2020)

The 1990's arrived today at the moment I'm using them with a dac of sorts, I use a GoXLR for streaming and comms but it is advised to use a headphone amp. Just gotta wait for Schiit to send over the magni 3+.

First impressions even without the amp the sound is great, seems to be better detail than the 660S, slightly better soundstage and a bit more warm and bright. Far more enjoyable listening to my kind of music HipHop/Rap/RnB. I will say I had been somewhat scared off them by the Z reviews devotees who said I'd hate the murderous treble, well guess I'm not treble sensitive, also think the Dekoni pads mentioned by @Chastity have helped in that regard.

Plenty of earcup room using the Dekoni's, no issues there, the clamping isn't as bad as I'd heard, although everyone's skull is different. You do feel it over time, I think it's potentially due to the weight as the initial clamp isn't very noticeable for me.

Have only used them in Destiny 2, and have found them a step up in imaging from the 660S.

I imagine once the amp arrives then I will be able to truly appreciate them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Destiny 2 has a fantastic sound all around. A great game for headphone testing.


----------



## Resetz

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Destiny 2 has a fantastic sound all around. A great game for headphone testing.



For sure, as did the original game. I think the audio really adds a lot to the whole experience. The world just sounds so alive. The music is brilliant too. They've made plenty of mistakes but audio is not one of them.


----------



## Chastity

FYI:  Creative SBX G6 Firmware 2.0 came out today.

_Fixes:_

Support GameVoice Mix on Sony PS4
Fix Mic cut-off on PS4 in prolong idle time
Audio cut-off in Direct Mode
Support Noise Reduction for Microphone input on Sony PS4 or Nintendo Switch
While in sidetone mode (volume LED is in RED color), double click the master volume button will turn ON or OFF Noise Reduction
Creative SBX G6 Downloads


----------



## thefreed (May 21, 2020)

Hi Envy can't believe I can get a hold of you through this forum, I remember like couple years ago, I used these reviews to decide on sennheiser game ones, (bought used at ebay). I am trying to upgrade to a more audiophile quality headphone, while still keeping the ones for the mic, but I am not sure what to choose...
My budget is like 250$, and I am going to be gaming, and listening to music.
I mostly listen to music like this, kinda electronic, house, nu-disco.


What open/semi headphone would you recommend for 250$? also if you can recommend a sound card, or dac and amp too that would be great.
Anyone can answer, please just help me!


----------



## Mmoyeti

Well I ended up taking a zen-dac from a friend who had a spare unused one. Plus I have my 702's.

Sound wise the combo sounds great. A couple of things I've noticed gaming wise.  

I'm hearing more detail directional sound wise than before and distance. I am struggling a bit with hearing some sounds that I used to hear when they are further away and something close is making a lot of noise. I'm told that's my ears adjusting to open backs and really I guess it's how it should be. My closed back pairs (hyper x cloud 2 and audio technica msr7's) seem to make footsteps a bit further sound closer. So that's not as true a reflection, though means sometimes with the closed (in FPS at least), you might hear enemy footsteps before you should do. 

The 702's seem to have what is hard to describe but maybe a "creak" or "pop" as I move slightly. I tried my other pairs in the zen-dac and i don't hear it with those. I tried the 702's in the mobo port and I still hear it though i'm not sure if i hear it as much. Very odd, any ideas?

Just some initial observations on the setup I now have vs old.


----------



## MEGALADON

*I would like to thank everyone that contributed to my new headphone setup. I bought the sound blaster x7, the ad700x and the k712. I love all of them. However, now I need a mic. Any suggestions?*


----------



## Resetz

MEGALADON said:


> *However, now I need a mic. Any suggestions?*



Assuming you didn't want to go for an xlr, which can get expensive. One of my friends uses a ModMic(he has the wireless version) and it sounds good. Definitely a step up from nearly all "headset mics". They have a couple of wired options I think they call them the USB and the UNI? There's another brand V-Moda that does a similar product, but I personally haven't heard anyone using one, so can't comment.

There's also dynamic usb mics which sound good, but generally pickup a tonne of background noise. Even on a boom arm I found my blue yeti just picked up too much.


----------



## MEGALADON

Resetz said:


> Assuming you didn't want to go for an xlr, which can get expensive. One of my friends uses a ModMic(he has the wireless version) and it sounds good. Definitely a step up from nearly all "headset mics". They have a couple of wired options I think they call them the USB and the UNI? There's another brand V-Moda that does a similar product, but I personally haven't heard anyone using one, so can't comment.
> 
> There's also dynamic usb mics which sound good, but generally pickup a tonne of background noise. Even on a boom arm I found my blue yeti just picked up too much.


I was considering the mod mic wireless. What is xlr?


----------



## Resetz

MEGALADON said:


> I was considering the mod mic wireless. What is xlr?


It's just a higher quality mic, cost is also higher it has an xlr connection which requires some sort of audio interface/amp etc. You also need something to mount or hang it on like a boom arm, it's kind of overkill for just gaming.


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm a big fan of studio mics (with XLR output) and interfaces for PC use, but it is massively overkill for PC gaming. Kind of overkill is definitely an understatement.


----------



## Resetz (May 21, 2020)

Really depends on your budget, how much value you place on a quality setup, and whether you do things like streaming. Situationally I'd argue it's essential.

But splitting hairs over wording something as "kind of" is infantile.

Nothing more to add on this 😉


----------



## Zachik

AxelCloris said:


> I'm a big fan of studio mics (with XLR output) and interfaces for PC use, but it is massively overkill for PC gaming. Kind of overkill is definitely an understatement.


Isn't that the whole point of being an audiophile? 
Spend $1000 on power cord, $8000 on DAC, and $4000 on headphone amp... overkill? hell no!!
(for the record, I did not spend above amounts... at least not on power cord and DAC...)


----------



## AxelCloris

Given how much in-game team audio and third-party chat programs can compress outgoing audio, my (admittedly pricey) studio setup doesn't offer a massive advantage over an affordable USB mic like a Blue Yeti Nano, Audio-Technica AT2020USB+, or RODE Podcaster for gaming. Sure I love fancy toys like the RE20, KSM8, and Kiwi, but they require additional hardware and MEGALADON can get incredible results with one of the USB mics I mentioned.


----------



## MEGALADON

More confusion... What would be best for the x7?


----------



## Radio81

I picked up a modmic wireless a couple of weeks ago and I really like it.  Have tried the desktops mics and there is too much background noise picked up.  I've also tried the Vmoda BoomPro and didn't care for it.  

I have not tested the duration the modmic wirless battery.  I've played for 4-5 hours with no issue, and I think it's advertised at 12 hours battery life.  It pairs easily and the range seems good.  I can get 30ft over in the next room without it dropping out.  It's also advertised as being able to be used while charging, but I have not tried that function.

Minor gripes are I wish it was USB-C for charging instead of micro USB, and the USB dongle it comes with is obnoxiously large.  But so far it's been flawless in operation.


----------



## MEGALADON

Radio81 said:


> I picked up a modmic wireless a couple of weeks ago and I really like it.  Have tried the desktops mics and there is too much background noise picked up.  I've also tried the Vmoda BoomPro and didn't care for it.
> 
> I have not tested the duration the modmic wirless battery.  I've played for 4-5 hours with no issue, and I think it's advertised at 12 hours battery life.  It pairs easily and the range seems good.  I can get 30ft over in the next room without it dropping out.  It's also advertised as being able to be used while charging, but I have not tried that function.
> 
> Minor gripes are I wish it was USB-C for charging instead of micro USB, and the USB dongle it comes with is obnoxiously large.  But so far it's been flawless in operation.


I think the x7 requires it's own dongle.


----------



## Radio81

Not really sure what you mean.  Use the X7 amp to drive your cans, then the modmic wireless dongle at the PC/PS4


----------



## AxelCloris

The PS4 can accept USB mics directly, or you could use something like a ModMic and connect it to the input on the X7. Both are fine options. I used the X7 with my PS4 (and the accompanying bluetooth dongle) for a while. Fine setup.


----------



## kashim (May 22, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok guys, I'm STRESSING that this isn't going to be on the same caliber as my usual reviews, because I just don't know how to do dac/amps properly. Keep that in mind. I tried here, but it may sound a bit more casual than normal. As such, I don't really consider this a review, but more of a hodgepodge of personal impressions. Take that as you will.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i had read this,actually i had ad700x and use hesuvi vbcable for virtual sorround,need best dac/amp for gaming under 250 euro,i had found fulla 3 for 129 euro and hel for 250,is worth it the extra 120 euro?or there is something better for that price?i play a lot of competitive fps games @Mad Lust Envy any tips or help please?


----------



## thefreed

MEGALADON said:


> *I would like to thank everyone that contributed to my new headphone setup. I bought the sound blaster x7, the ad700x and the k712. I love all of them. However, now I need a mic. Any suggestions?*


after some research I ordered k712 and sound blaster g6... don't know if I should pay 140$ more to get the x7. I am using it for pc and ps4;
Can I ask you why you would need the ad700x along with the k712?


----------



## pappy97

I have my PS4 - > Optical -> Sound blaster G6.

I pretty much only play Warzone (i.e., competitive FPS) and my one number thing for headphones for gaming is positional accuracy (footsteps mainly) and imaging.

I've been rolling with the AD700x, and it fits the bill.  But last night I tried my HD540 Ref I 600 ohms, and call me crazy, but they seemed to be better. I'm questioning if I should get rid of my AD700x, because I love my HD540's for music too.

Am I crazy to think my HD540s might be more accurate than AD700x for comp FPS?


----------



## MEGALADON

Radio81 said:


> Not really sure what you mean.  Use the X7 amp to drive your cans, then the modmic wireless dongle at the PC/PS4


I had to buy a dongle for use with the sound blaster x7.



thefreed said:


> after some research I ordered k712 and sound blaster g6... don't know if I should pay 140$ more to get the x7. I am using it for pc and ps4;
> Can I ask you why you would need the ad700x along with the k712?


I use the x700 for shooters and the k712 for everything else. I also make beats.



AxelCloris said:


> The PS4 can accept USB mics directly, or you could use something like a ModMic and connect it to the input on the X7. Both are fine options. I used the X7 with my PS4 (and the accompanying bluetooth dongle) for a while. Fine setup.


Yeah, I was referring to use with the x7. I have headsets and headphones. I don't have any standalone mics.



Radio81 said:


> I picked up a modmic wireless a couple of weeks ago and I really like it.  Have tried the desktops mics and there is too much background noise picked up.  I've also tried the Vmoda BoomPro and didn't care for it.
> 
> I have not tested the duration the modmic wirless battery.  I've played for 4-5 hours with no issue, and I think it's advertised at 12 hours battery life.  It pairs easily and the range seems good.  I can get 30ft over in the next room without it dropping out.  It's also advertised as being able to be used while charging, but I have not tried that function.
> 
> Minor gripes are I wish it was USB-C for charging instead of micro USB, and the USB dongle it comes with is obnoxiously large.  But so far it's been flawless in operation.


I ordered the mod mic.


----------



## Chastity (May 23, 2020)

I'll be ordering an SBX X3 today.  Learned that the toslink support is a lot better than G6.

1) It's accessible as a separate digital output, unlike the G6.  This will allow for passthru options.
2) It can do 24/192 stereo PCM.  G6 is stuck at 24/48.

Plus it supports SBX and Super-XFi VSS technologies, and the option for Windows 7.1 setting for your gaming needs.  If you want to use a high-end DAC, but want all the gaming support, this is the device to get.  (I hope it's not limited to 48KHz when doing an HRTF mix.  That would be so "Creative".)

If someone can confirm that the X3 can do HRTF out the SPDIF I'd appreciate it.

Based on this pic it suggests you cannot output VSS via SPDIF like you can on the G6:


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 23, 2020)

I'm pretty sure the g6 does 32bit/384khz in usb (set the audio to direct mode in 2 channel).  For surround, it does 32/96hz at its highest.


In the case of optical I think 24/96, or whatever the limit of optical is. Also, the source device limited how much it can output. Some can do as high as that, and others might only go to 16/44, etc.

As for limiting to 48khz when doing an htrf mix, it's because it's taking 5/7 channels and mixing it down. There's not enough bandwith in an optical stream to do more than 5, period. The extra two channels being done by the G6 would likely just be matrixed from the two rear channels. Everything using optical output is only limited to plain Dolby Digital or DTS.

EVERY SINGLE virtual surround that I have used through an optical signal has never been higher than 48khz while doing surround. The device MIGHT say 24/96, but it must change to 48khz when doing virtual surround. I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure.

There's too many channels to be hi res audio all at once.

To add, optical isn't hard limited to 24/96, but the format seems to he held there for the sake of reliability. I'm not keen on the science behind it all, but yeah.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> In the case of optical I think 24/96, or whatever the limit of optical is.


I already confirmed with Creative's Dev team on their Reddit channel.  The SPDIF-Out is limited to 24/48 on the G6.  The blurb in the Direct SPDIF Help is incorrect and they said it's a typo.  Sigh.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 24, 2020)

If you're trying to OUTPUT surround to another dac, then yes, like I said, surround sound CAN'T be more than 48khz. That's not limited to just Creative, that's everything via optical. The 5 channels fed to the G6 (to turn into virtual surround) were 48khz to begin with, so there's absolutely no reason to output anything higher.

If you're trying to send STEREO to another dac via optical, then it's a shame it sdoesn't do more than 48khz, but then why use the G6 in between in the first place? May as well just go from source to your other dac if you're just gonna use stereo and need hi res.

If optical passthrough is important to you, may as well get an optical switcher. That way your single source can send to all your optucal inputs without worrying about losing fidelity or capabilities. DACs and such don't tend to have passthroughs. I do like that the Mixamp 5.8 tx unit does though.


----------



## HieroX

Chastity said:


> I'll be ordering an SBX X3 today.  Learned that the toslink support is a lot better than G6.
> 
> 1) It's accessible as a separate digital output, unlike the G6.  This will allow for passthru options.
> 2) It can do 24/192 stereo PCM.  G6 is stuck at 24/48.
> ...



I am a X3 user. It can output 24bit/196khz at 7.1 with no noticeable issues. I tried at higher bitrates, but I get distortions.


----------



## Chastity

HieroX said:


> I am a X3 user. It can output 24bit/196khz at 7.1 with no noticeable issues. I tried at higher bitrates, but I get distortions.


Thx for the confirmation.  Just need to know if it will output the HRTF Mix to the toslink.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Why are you guys obsessed with outputting your games at 192/24?

I doubt those games have samples at those bitrates/bitdepth. Not even one game. This means your upsampling all your stuff. 
What do you guys expect the SRC process to solve for you? 

Creative's cards used to be good at it and sometimes even used up to 80% of the APU just for hardware accelerated sampling rate conversion. I doubt these USB cards do it in the same obsessive way. Would be nice though to further eliminate jitter etc..

It would be much much more important if these cards would render internally with 24bit and whatever and then output to a standard rate. That way SBX and whatever processing is done would have way more overhead.  Maybe they do, I don't know.


----------



## CT007 (May 24, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You're NOT going to keep getting competitive improvements as you go up in price.
> 
> So if you're looking for the very best headphone for competitive gaming, just get an AD700.


Surely not true on the first statement :\ I don't see Sundara, or Elix, or HD800(it is mentioned, but not in the actual review list, strangely) here. HD660 probably beats AD700, with better imaging accuracy.

AD700? Why haven't you tried the updated X models? Talking about a long-gone product not for sale isn't helpful for buyers, and this list is really lacking without those X models included.

How come there's no simple Top 3/5/10 rank list..? Like, seriously. Put the top 3 or 5, in order, right at the top of your list, of headphones people can still buy from stores. This whole article is so messy, tedious, and riddled with obsolete products.


----------



## Fegefeuer

pappy97 said:


> I've been rolling with the AD700x, and it fits the bill.  But last night I tried my HD540 Ref I 600 ohms, and call me crazy, but they seemed to be better. I'm questioning if I should get rid of my AD700x, because I love my HD540's for music too.
> 
> Am I crazy to think my HD540s might be more accurate than AD700x for comp FPS?



Nein. The HD 540 are really great headphones "even" today. Would also take them over the AD700x.


----------



## SierraMadre (May 24, 2020)

Chastity said:


> I'll be ordering an SBX X3 today.  Learned that the toslink support is a lot better than G6.
> 
> 1) It's accessible as a separate digital output, unlike the G6.  This will allow for passthru options.
> 
> ...


I have both the X3 and G6. The X3 is better for the PC-only gamer but for gamers who use consoles supporting optical as well, if it was one unit or the other, then the G6 is better / more versatile because it has optical in and can therefor do proper Dolby 5.1 > VSS conversion for consoles. The X3 obviously cannot do that as it lacks optical in and existing consoles can’t send DD5.1 or indeed any multichannel signal over USB.

SXFI capability was bugged on X3 the last time I tried it - distorted rears in comparison to the SXFI AMP / dongle (which I also have), confirmed by other users including @HieroX who confirmed the issue physically in person with Creative months ago. Dunno whether it’s been fixed yet as I use the SXFI dongle for HRTF. Maybe he can provide an update.



Chastity said:


> accessible as a separate digital output.



not clear what you mean by that?



Chastity said:


> 2) It can do 24/192 stereo PCM.  G6 is stuck at 24/48.



Fegefeuer is right on this one. You will be unlikely to notice a difference with ultra high values unless perhaps if you are playing audio files with a correspondingly high *native* resolution and even that is subject to debate.

 Gaming, movies and digital TV content is native 24/48 max (often less at 16/44 or 24/44) and there is little point in forcing your source PC to ‘upscale’ it. At best, nothing will happen and you won’t hear a difference other than that induced by cognitive placebo. At worst, you’ll cause rendering errors resulting in artefacting, I.e. some form of distortion. Best not to get too caught up in marketing numbers. I mean, if those are a priority for you then you should know that out of the X3, G6 and SXFI AMP/dongle, the X3 actually has the weakest dac/amp specs.



Chastity said:


> If someone can confirm that the X3 can do HRTF out the SPDIF I'd appreciate it.



For SXFI HRTF, no, it cannot be pushed out via optical. Ticking the “apply headphone virtualization” box applies *SBX* VSS to the optical out. So SXFI - no, SBX - yes.


----------



## Chastity (May 24, 2020)

SierraMadre said:


> I have both the X3 and G6. The X3 is better for the PC-only gamer but for gamers who use consoles supporting optical as well, if it was one unit or the other, then the G6 is better / more versatile because it has optical in and can therefor do proper Dolby 5.1 > VSS conversion for consoles. The X3 obviously cannot do that as it lacks optical in and existing consoles can’t send DD5.1 or indeed any multichannel signal over USB.
> 
> SXFI capability was bugged on X3 the last time I tried it - distorted rears in comparison to the SXFI AMP / dongle (which I also have), confirmed by other users including @HieroX who confirmed the issue physically in person with Creative months ago. Dunno whether it’s been fixed yet as I use the SXFI dongle for HRTF. Maybe he can provide an update.
> 
> ...


The reason I ask about the higher bit/sample rate on the optical is because I have a decent amount of DVD-A audio, which is in 24/96 6ch FLAC format.  I can configure SBX to do the surround mix at a low setting (about 9%) that does a really good job of it.  I've also upgraded to a SMSL M300 MKII DAC, and I enjoy the quality of the AK4497 DAC.  If it was for gaming only, yeah, then 48KHz would be fine.

Currently I am using Asus' Sonic Studio III for the HRTF mix.  The nice feature of the software is that you can configure non-Realtek sound devices to be processed by the application, and configure them as Headphones.  The software will then automatically mix multichannel sources to HRTF stereo, and for music, does a great mix job. (Tho checking the SS Virtual Mixer, it may be locked at 16/48, but I am not going to quibble over that)  The one feature it lacks is faking a 7.1 setting in Windows Audio for games that cannot configure the audio channels itself.  On the upside, it's not limited to 48KHz, and mixes my 24/96 sources, and will output it as such, as long as you also set Windows Audio to 24/96 for DirectSound output.

Too bad about SXFI output.  Would have been fun to try.  So as it stands now, I am using the G6 for 7.1 VSS for games only that require it, which then outputs the HRTF via toslink to my DAC.  I have to change Windows Audio default output and change the input setting on the DAC.  I would use a soft solution like Dolby Access/DTS:X for the games, but some of my old stuff isn't Windows Sonic aware, and will only output stereo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 24, 2020)

CT007 said:


> Surely not true on the first statement :\ I don't see Sundara, or Elix, or HD800(it is mentioned, but not in the actual review list, strangely) here. HD660 probably beats AD700, with better imaging accuracy.
> 
> AD700? Why haven't you tried the updated X models? Talking about a long-gone product not for sale isn't helpful for buyers, and this list is really lacking without those X models included.
> 
> How come there's no simple Top 3/5/10 rank list..? Like, seriously. Put the top 3 or 5, in order, right at the top of your list, of headphones people can still buy from stores. This whole article is so messy, tedious, and riddled with obsolete products.


Would you like to buy those headphones and send them to me for review? Like, *seriously.*

I can only review what I buy and/or through the process of some companies sending gear to me.

I make NO money of this, and my real life job is a joke and... not at a level where I can just buy things on whims to review all the time. I'm not even allowed to mention avenues of some compensation on here. So yeah, all of this is essentially for FREE. If I wanted to stop today, I could. Not that it's make a difference in my life, other than stopping the constant "why not this, or you need to review that".

Why is there no simple top rank list? Because people would then absolutely avoid EVERYTHING but the top ranks. I had a scoring system before, and all that garnered was tons of people asking me why a headphone was a 9.75 while once they think was better was a 9.5, and avoiding all the reading and just paying attention to scores. In my opinion, even headphones with 7s are worth looking into. In fact the headphone I'm using would've been rated 7s, and I can't think of anything I'd use on the daily more than this.

So no, no ranks or scoring. If people cant bother reading reviews and extrapolating what would work best for them instead of just looking at scores and picking out the highest number one, that's on them. Me, as I said, I don't get paid for this. I had a couple of freelance reviews for a company that I got paid little for, but that wasn't enough for me to pump out reviews just because people wanted to know what I thought of headphone X and headphone Z.

You know what, after my next review (whenever I'm allowed to post it), who knows when I'll have anything to look at? I'm certainly not buying anything else.

Sorry that I can't MAGICALLY pop out throw away money to keep up with audiophile trends for reviews that give me nothing in return.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Man, that entitlement is embarassing. How about sending MLE stuff to test instead of waiting for it to happen? Or organizing stuff to have it send to him? What are YOU doing to contribute to this thread? I would constantly send MLE all my stuff if it wasn't for living overseas. Everything. 

Lack of scoring system ist great. Reviews should be thorough and detailed and not for the lazy who do not want to do their homework and be spoonfed instead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 24, 2020)

Like I get the need of scoring. My method isn't perfect, of course. My guide doesn't let anyone know what's relatively new or useful for certain applications. In that, I do agree. I can improve it by a lot.

Problem is, that just brings back the old days of people just whining about which is the ULTRA ULTIMATE FINAL BESTEST HEADPHONE FOR BASS MUSIC GAMING DETAIL SOUNDSTAGE MASSAGES. I don't have the godly patience needed to deal with that anymore.

I'm a jaded, miserable, pessimistic failure, ultimately defeated by the world and himself to deal with that anymore.

I will eventually cave in and do some sort of write up of headphones good for this or that. It IS overdue. I know. But I won't be giving them ranks or putting them on a tier list. It'll just be a list of what headphones can do X well or Y well.

I'll just need some divine intervention to give me the mental energy and desire to do so.


----------



## CT007 (May 24, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> the headphone I'm using would've been rated 7s, and I can't think of anything I'd use on the daily more than this.


So if your ranking is accurate, those headphone are just "above average"/C- for serious gaming/accuracy, but you must have chosen them for higher comfort or music, which is a fair compromise to make.

I can't agree with the omission of a Top 3/5/10 list. People are here for the best(no compromises). And _not_ having to press CTRL+F to manually search for numbers to compare, or literally read through the entire list to determine an answer(because people work 14 hours a day, and it would be more useful for their time, right?). In fact, you should place all headphones below a B- grade for gaming into a category called "Irrelevant", where people can still read through ancient history, if interested. If your ratings are generally accurate, then you have nothing to worry about. Of course there will be some questions about why "X over Y?", due to our slightly different hearing perceptions and test equipment & material. But removing a finalized Top 5 list just because people PM you is a big cop out. Post under a different account, if that's the problem(or dis-allow replies, if that's a feature?). There are _still _too few trustworthy gaming earphone lists and reviewers out there, so the world needs every one of these, even if a bit outdated.

I guess you haven't had any interest in the other AD X models? The 500, 700, & 900 can be dirt cheap on Ebay. Right now I have 700X, 900X and Stax L300, each with different pads, I could possibly send you. I feel like there's no interest, though, if you haven't gotten to them by now =P

I've never been paid for any review work I've done. Sounds like more hassle to make happen than I'd be interested in :\ And not something I'd ever expect to happen. Is there a model you've had your eye on, that you haven't been able to get yet..?



Mad Lust Envy said:


> You know what, after my next review (whenever I'm allowed to post it), who knows when I'll have anything to look at? *I'm certainly not buying anything else.*
> 
> Sorry that I can't MAGICALLY pop out throw away money to keep up with audiophile trends for *reviews that give me nothing in return*.


Oh, well that answers my previous question :\ It's a dead list, then! Why do you get no enjoyment out of potentially discovering better sounding headphones, though..? That's sad to hear  I think you have done good work with this list, it just needs a Top 5 summation section & Irrelevant/Poor-Scoring section.



Fegefeuer said:


> Reviews should be thorough and detailed


So when BGGAR does his Top 5 list videos, they should be 2+ hours long, with full, in-depth discussion about each one, in maximum detail, with the conclusion obscured until the oration has concluded? If a reviewer is trustworthy, don't you think someone who works a lot would appreciate a shortlist, that they can simply look at in 2 minutes, and get on with their life? That's cool that you're apparently anti-simple-ranking list, but I'm certainly not.


Fegefeuer said:


> Man, that entitlement is embarassing. How about sending MLE stuff to test instead of waiting for it to happen? Or organizing stuff to have it send to him? What are YOU doing to contribute to this thread?


Oh, I guess I missed the part in his article where he says, "PLEASE SEND MONEY FOR MORE REVIEWS. If you have headphones you can send to me to review, please do, because that would help me since I can't afford to buy much myself". My bad. Could you kindly point me to that section? And where he says, "This article/review is open for public contributions; this is a public review collaboration, not a personal review"? Thanks. I assumed he/she was the reviewer, not myself. I think if people on Head-fi had known about this, they would have helped lend more headphones to be on this list.


----------



## Fegefeuer

How about lurking more and reading for longer before posting? That way you'd be aware how to contribute. I certainly never needed any "section" or any directions. 

Your strawman with whoever BGGAR is isn't worthy replying to. Nobody mentioned his reviews at all and Youtube/videos is/are a different format.


----------



## CT007 (May 24, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


> How about lurking more and reading for longer before posting? That way you'd be aware how to contribute. I certainly never needed any "section" or any directions.
> 
> Your strawman with whoever BGGAR is isn't worthy replying to. Nobody mentioned his reviews at all and Youtube/videos is/are a different format.


Again, I have to read through a 2977 page thread, to find out if there is a statement about wanting money or headphone donations, that directly affect the longevity and material in the article..? If it was important enough to be called out about(as I just was), it should be listed in the article, just like the disclaimer(that's apparently also important). And telling people to go lurk and read through 1000 pages doesn't help, does it? That's equally as useless as not having a Top summary list/video.

Obviously video is a different format, but it's the same idea. He has several individual review videos, and then a summary video. Imagine his channel without the summaries - going through literally hours and hours of footage, to determine for yourself what might be the #1.


----------



## illram

Isn't BGGAR the guy who stole loaner IEM's and likes to brag about what a tough guy he is in his videos? There was just a thread about him over at r/headphones. He seems like a real treat.

MLE's guide is an excellent resource and I appreciate that it is one of the few text review resources rather than monetized youtube channels. If you want MLE to review a specific headphone, send it to him. If you think there is a better way to do it, do it yourself.


----------



## CT007 (May 24, 2020)

illram said:


> Isn't BGGAR the guy who stole loaner IEM's and likes to brag about what a tough guy he is in his videos?


Don't know about the first part, but I've heard him say he has a good punch(when discussing martial arts)  Do you think that makes his audio reviews untrustworthy?


illram said:


> If you think there is a better way to do it, do it yourself.


Didn't realize this was closed for suggestions and feedback, my bad.


----------



## Chastity

CT007 said:


> Don't know about the first part, but I've heard him say he has a good punch(when discussing martial arts)  Do you think that makes his audio reviews untrustworthy?
> 
> Didn't realize this was closed for suggestions and feedback, my bad.


BGGAR came out with a response that he does indeed still have the missing IEMs, and despite being requested by the company to return them, he has refused.  So it makes him a thief, and dishonest, and more than likely ruin it for other reviewers.  He's had these flagship IEMs for over 6 months.


----------



## SierraMadre

CT007 said:


> So when BGGAR does his Top 5 list videos


BGGAR? . . . Seriously? That’s your benchmark critic? Lol, p-lease.
What next?  Crapgamer for gaming reviews? QuantumApotheosis for UHD TV tech?


----------



## illram (May 24, 2020)

CT007 said:


> Don't know about the first part, but I've heard him say he has a good punch(when discussing martial arts)  Do you think that makes his audio reviews untrustworthy?
> 
> Didn't realize this was closed for suggestions and feedback, my bad.



From what I can gather his reviews are mostly him talking about something other than the headphones for 95% of the time (like, bragging about the size of his penis... not kidding) so aside from the fact that he seems to be a sociopathic degenerate thief, yes, it appears he is also a very poor comparator for headphone reviews. Anyways, it seems weird comparing youtube reviews to a compendium of text reviews. Two very different formats.

As for offering feedback, there is a good way to go about it and a bad way to go about it. You came in here, read the first post, and without reading anything else (such as, MLE's many many posts explaining why he does not do rank orders) jumped immediately to saying it was "messy, tedious, and riddled with obsolete products." So yeah, that's not going to get a very receptive response here. Or anywhere.


----------



## SierraMadre (May 24, 2020)

Chastity said:


> BGGAR came out with a response that he does indeed still have the missing IEMs, and despite being requested by the company to return them, he has refused.  So it makes him a thief, and dishonest, and more than likely ruin it for other reviewers.  He's had these flagship IEMs for over 6 months.


Yep. 

Ironically it’s all documented on another thread on this very forum by the aggrieved brand rep. 

And let’s also not forget what he did to Jomo. . . Basically -

 “How dare you not respond immediately to my demands for a review sample! £#%* you, ...(insert bestial racial pejorative)... I’ll use my channel to slander and damage your brand!”

*Clearly*, that’s the kind of ‘professionalism’ and ‘trustworthiness’ that MLE should be aspiring to. . . 😂


----------



## CT007

SierraMadre said:


> BGGAR? . . . Seriously? That’s your benchmark critic? Lol, p-lease.
> *Clearly*, that’s the kind of ‘professionalism’ and ‘trustworthiness’ that MLE should be aspiring to


Yep, that's the example I could think of, to show a better review format/organization to use. I'm not talking about BGGAR himself, or his trustworthiness, or how he specifically does individual product reviews...but you must've missed that.


----------



## CT007

illram said:


> From what I can gather his reviews are mostly him talking about something other than the headphones for 95% of the time (like, bragging about the size of his penis... not kidding) so aside from the fact that he seems to be a sociopathic degenerate thief, yes, it appears he is also a very poor comparator for headphone reviews.


Wait, where does his random personal life details and character traits correlate to his ability to judge audio gear well..? And let's hold off on calls like that, until we see what MLE is like in several hours of video.  I agree he's not a "strict reviewer", but that makes his reviews more interesting than standard, boring reviews(if you're OK with his rant topics)


----------



## HieroX

SierraMadre said:


> I have both the X3 and G6. The X3 is better for the PC-only gamer but for gamers who use consoles supporting optical as well, if it was one unit or the other, then the G6 is better / more versatile because it has optical in and can therefor do proper Dolby 5.1 > VSS conversion for consoles. The X3 obviously cannot do that as it lacks optical in and existing consoles can’t send DD5.1 or indeed any multichannel signal over USB.
> 
> SXFI capability was bugged on X3 the last time I tried it - distorted rears in comparison to the SXFI AMP / dongle (which I also have), confirmed by other users including @HieroX who confirmed the issue physically in person with Creative months ago. Dunno whether it’s been fixed yet as I use the SXFI dongle for HRTF. Maybe he can provide an update.
> 
> ...



Hey there! 

The firmware updates were already released end of April. For me, it has cleared the mids and lows distortions. I have not noticed anymore distortions yet. Before the update, I could use 32bit/192kHz for all audio modes. After the update, 32bit/192kHz quality was usable in only stereo modes. Surround modes tend to have some 'sizzling' distortions. 24bit/192kHz seems to be the highest possible setting for surround.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 25, 2020)

A dead list? I like to think that at the very least, the last half dozen or more of headphones I've reviewed aren't so old that they're obsolete.

And unlike tech in general, a good headphone is a good headphone forever. Just because new things come out doesn't make the older models irrelevant. The HD650 is still just as relevant today as it was 10 years ago (just under b the 6XX name). The 880 and K702 are still headphones others should be measured against in their respective strengths. 

There's plenty of old headphones still sold today. 

But anyways, if you don't like my style, you're welcome to leave.

Even without me here, the community here is big enough and helpful enough to assist newbies in their quest for headphones and gear. They don't NEED me. My headphone guide as I mentioned in the first post was actually made for ME to keep track of what I get, and it grew from there.

Most of this forum has thrived without me, and I appreciate that. If people are interested in whatever new product I'll  review, then hey, they can come here and see the review. I at least keep a recent update section on the first page so they can find the new reviews.

But anyways, last thing I'm interested in is arguing what to and what not to do on here.

I've carved my small little niche here, and I'm ok with that. If you want more or different, there's a billion youtubers and reviewers that do it be differently. Please do yourself a favor and go to them instead. Whether you stay or go, it makes no difference to me. As I said many times, I'm just a guy who started writing little impressions and people wanted a little more so I made them bigger reviews.

I did this simply as a hobby, where it has remained as such but for nearly 10 years. So forgive me if my production quality isn't up to the level of people who make a living off their reviews.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, "dead list". Comes in here, tries to lecture people, doesn't have a single clue about anything at all. 650, 600, LCD-2 etc. are all dead and irrelevant by now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Guys do you know if there are bumpless K701s nowadays?

I really kinda really sorta want one again.


----------



## Fegefeuer

They changed to bumpless many years ago


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Man, the Amazon pics still having bumps scare me, lol.

Maybe if I get a new headphone, it's probably gonna be that.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Amazon.de has still pictured both variants, at least the front picture shows what you get


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I think it'd be kinda cool if I had the original mid-fi 3. 6XX, K701, DT880 lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'd have 6XX and HE-4. I really want the HE-4 back after the plastic front grill killed the driver.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

what, what happened?


----------



## Fegefeuer

the front mesh must have loosened over time, behind it is an array of plastic. One piece of it broke and pierced the driver. 

The HE-4 is such a great headphone with power. Sure, the depth is lacking but other than that really well sounding headphone. Very fast, airy, jumpy, lightfooted and playful.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> the front mesh must have loosened over time, behind it is an array of plastic. One piece of it broke and pierced the driver.
> 
> The HE-4 is such a great headphone with power. Sure, the depth is lacking but other than that really well sounding headphone. Very fast, airy, jumpy, lightfooted and playful.


Definitely one of my faves too. Sorry to hear that. You getting it fixed?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Impossible. Need new drivers or just another HE-4.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, what a shame. I figured maybe you scored a spare driver or something.

It's crazy how underrated it was on release. No one freaking bought it. Everyone went for the 500.


----------



## Fegefeuer

yep, it was all 500 and HE-6, then HE-400 etc. 

HE-4 was the one gem people avoided because of higher numbers. Also it was hard to drive. 86db were no joke back then, still aren't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah. I'm glad my desire to try unusual things brought me to the HE-4. Essentially the pioneer of single sided magnet planar designs. Nowadays, single sided magnet arrays are everywhere.


----------



## SierraMadre

HieroX said:


> Hey there!
> 
> The firmware updates were already released end of April. For me, it has cleared the mids and lows distortions. I have not noticed anymore distortions yet. Before the update, I could use 32bit/192kHz for all audio modes. After the update, 32bit/192kHz quality was usable in only stereo modes. Surround modes tend to have some 'sizzling' distortions. 24bit/192kHz seems to be the highest possible setting for surround.


Excellent news! Thanks for the update! Guess I better update it then.


----------



## CT007 (May 25, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So forgive me if my production quality isn't up to the level of people who make a living off their reviews.


The problem you said you had about a Top list was all the constant questions & PMs, not a money issue.  (And wouldn't you prefer not to be a paid reviewer, to keep your honesty..?) Sure, nobody can review everything. I just think, if you have gone through all of this work to test, analyze, post online, and do major article overhauls/updates, having a simple summary(less work than doing a review) of what's best would complete the final chapter in this unfinished book, and help you and everyone else find what they're looking for quickly. The more headphones you add to the list, the more difficult it's going to be for yourself or anyone to determine what's the best. Heck, maybe you could have someone else post the Top list in post #2, so people could immediately jump there, and that guy would get all the PMs?

I'd call it a dead list, since you said you don't plan on buying any more headphones to test. Though you did get a few new rentals in recently, looks like, so doesn't quite seem to be the case!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 25, 2020)

One can make money without being paid by the actual manufacturers... so not sure how my honesty would come into question. I'd never take payment from the actual headphone makers.

And the last... so many headphone reviews have come from headphones I didn't buy. I think last headphone I reviewed that I bought was YEARS ago. I can't even remember the last thing I bought other than headphones I had already owned and reviewed, like the D7000 and HE400. And the short summary reviews for those were many years ago. Believe it or not, I do get companies who send me things to review, with no stipulations other than posting the reviews on specific dates. For them, any attention to their products is beneficial, and I don't plan on reviewing things I don't like. So it tends to be an agreeable...agreement between me and the companies. Some times I keep what they send, some times I don't. Either way, that doesn't nudge me one way or another, as I have don't have a desire to have 25 products just sitting in storage, so more often than not, I decline and return them anyways.

And again, you're asking me to do things I have absolutely no incentive to do or fix. The guide has thrived all this time, and if I don't change a thing, it'll remain so, until the next guy makes a much better guide on here, etc. Be my guest. I don't owe you anything.  So your ideas fall on deaf ears.


----------



## LetTheKidsTechno (May 25, 2020)

Hi everyone, hoping I can get an explanation on the best setup for xbox one using a modmic with a schiit stack without a mixamp..

Optical cable from Xbox ---> DAC ---> RCA cables --> amp ---> headphones

Xbox controller adapter --> Y splitter ---> modmic

Would that setup work or would there be issues associated with game/party chat?

Edit: Lot of great info in this thread.. Just realized I won't be able to control game/party chat volume with the adapter via that setup. I guess a mixamp is necessary...


----------



## CT007 (May 25, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> And again, you're asking me to do things I have absolutely no incentive to do or fix. The guide has thrived all this time, and if I don't change a thing, it'll remain so, until the next guy makes a much better guide on here, etc. Be my guest. I don't owe you anything. So your ideas fall on deaf ears.


What if it reflected better on your part, from a company's eyes? Maybe they see this oddly formatted article, and aren't exactly impressed. If it were me, I would want to be that next guy, and make that better list, if I wanted to make money from reviews lol. If money is an issue, I think it could help! Just sayin'.


----------



## Mmoyeti (May 26, 2020)

So a bit longer with the Zen-dac and 702's. I like them both and the sound. I'm hearing direction well for sounds through the 702's, though I'm still not sure I hear footsteps as well as I used to. Unsure still if it's me getting used to open back, or if it's simply that now the sounds are separated by distance. Could be the close up sounds are drowning out the footsteps a which are a bit further away.

Also obviously when I open the attic window in this heat, the cars in the distance seep into the game and i sometimes wonder if it's birds in game or out my window.


----------



## casenote22

Hello all. I'm in a little pickle here as my dog chewed up my arctis pro headset and I'm wondering what would be the best headset or headphones in terms of gaming would be?  I see the ath-ag1x seems to be a rebranded a900 or 900x?  And those are very highly recommended in reference to gaming so would I be good in trying to aquire those for spacial awareness and footsteps (FPS)?  I was looking at Sennheiser HD6?? as well like 600, 650, etc. Thanks in advance


----------



## HieroX

SierraMadre said:


> Excellent news! Thanks for the update! Guess I better update it then.


Cool! Do let me know if there's any difference. I did a short comparison with my SXFi amp, I think the amp has slightly better rears for me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

casenote22 said:


> Hello all. I'm in a little pickle here as my dog chewed up my arctis pro headset and I'm wondering what would be the best headset or headphones in terms of gaming would be?  I see the ath-ag1x seems to be a rebranded a900 or 900x?  And those are very highly recommended in reference to gaming so would I be good in trying to acquire those for spacial awareness and footsteps (FPS)?  I was looking at Sennheiser HD6?? as well like 600, 650, etc. Thanks in advance


The Sennheiser HD600/HD650/HD6XX do not seem to get as many positive reviews, for FPS gaming, as some other headphones.
So I say go for the Audio Technicas


----------



## Chastity

casenote22 said:


> Hello all. I'm in a little pickle here as my dog chewed up my arctis pro headset and I'm wondering what would be the best headset or headphones in terms of gaming would be?  I see the ath-ag1x seems to be a rebranded a900 or 900x?  And those are very highly recommended in reference to gaming so would I be good in trying to aquire those for spacial awareness and footsteps (FPS)?  I was looking at Sennheiser HD6?? as well like 600, 650, etc. Thanks in advance


You can also consider the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300 R.


----------



## casenote22

I just found the AD700X on sale somewhere. I thought they were discontinued. Isn't this the most highly recommended pair of headphones in the thread for the most part?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno what you mean, it's still being sold. And by recommended, I wouldn't say that. I certainly wouldn't just force cram the AD700 down the everyone's throats. Sure if you want cheap and brutally effective at JUST competitive and nothing else. Personally, I don't like buying headphones that just do ONE thing right. I would prefer something better rounded for more things. But I guess if you only want one thing, the AD700 is as targeted and calculated as it gets.


----------



## casenote22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno what you mean, it's still being sold. And by recommended, I wouldn't say that. I certainly wouldn't just force cram the AD700 down the everyone's throats. Sure if you want cheap and brutally effective at JUST competitive and nothing else. Personally, I don't like buying headphones that just do ONE thing right. I would prefer something better rounded for more things. But I guess if you only want one thing, the AD700 is as targeted and calculated as it gets.


Recommendations?  I'm definitely open to suggestions


----------



## MEGALADON

I enjoy my wireless Mod Mic.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

casenote22 said:


> Recommendations?  I'm definitely open to suggestions


We can't just suggest headphones for the sake of suggestion. What you need them for, budget, fun, casual, competitive, open, closed, etc, etc. Too many factors.


----------



## casenote22

Mad Lust Envy said:


> We can't just suggest headphones for the sake of suggestion. What you need them for, budget, fun, casual, competitive, open, closed, etc, etc. Too many factors.


Well I for sure want something that does well at FPS shooters. But I am a huge audiophile as well. That's why I was looking at the Sennheiser 600 line as I do not have any audiophile level headphone, lots of IEM's but no headphones. I also just purchased a BTR5 and have been interested in the balanced 2.5mm jack as it used both DAC chips in the balanced jack. Thanks in advance my friend


----------



## casenote22

casenote22 said:


> Well I for sure want something that does well at FPS shooters(highly competitive, COD/CS GO). But I am a huge audiophile as well. That's why I was looking at the Sennheiser 600 line as I do not have any audiophile level headphone, lots of IEM's but no headphones. I also just purchased a BTR5 and have been interested in the balanced 2.5mm jack as it used both DAC chips in the balanced jack. Thanks in advance my friend


----------



## Radio81

If you want a headset, there's not many open back options.  Still, the ATH-ADG1X seems overpriced.  That is just IMO.  I think I would go with the Sennheiser PC37X over that for much cheaper if you want a headset.

I'm also not a fan of in-line volume controls on cables.  Much rather have it at the amp or headset itself.  Again, that's a personal preference.

I play MW (2019) quite a bit on PS4 alternating between SHP9500 and X2HR headphones with a modmic.  I've replaced the pads on the SHP9500 with Shure 1840 velour pads. I usually reach for those for gaming, and the X2HR for movies.


----------



## casenote22

Radio81 said:


> If you want a headset, there's not many open back options.  Still, the ATH-ADG1X seems overpriced.  That is just IMO.  I think I would go with the Sennheiser PC37X over that for much cheaper if you want a headset.
> 
> I'm also not a fan of in-line volume controls on cables.  Much rather have it at the amp or headset itself.  Again, that's a personal preference.
> 
> I play MW (2019) quite a bit on PS4 alternating between SHP9500 and X2HR headphones with a modmic.  I've replaced the pads on the SHP9500 with Shure 1840 velour pads. I usually reach for those for gaming, and the X2HR for movies.


I see the SHP5000 on Amazon is that the original or the "S" model?  I also was looking at the ADG1X, isn't that a rebranded 900x?


----------



## Radio81

9500 and 9500S are essentially the same.  I believe the only things different between them are the 3.5mm cable it comes with and the packaging.

I don't know enough about the ADG1X to know if it's a rebranded 900x.


----------



## SierraMadre

casenote22 said:


> I see the SHP5000 on Amazon is that the original or the "S" model?  I also was looking at the ADG1X, isn't that a rebranded 900x?


Drivers are based on the AD900X but appear to be tuned for more bass (either that or they have achieved the same effect by other means). It's still not bass heavy by any means but just not as bass shy as the 900X. It's excellent but I wouldn't pay more than say 130 for it purely because it is fixed cable and the wire and its sleeving seem cheap and lacking durability so if you break it, you have to fix it yourself as AT won't be replacing it for you.


----------



## casenote22

700x, 900x o





Radio81 said:


> If you want a headset, there's not many open back options.  Still, the ATH-ADG1X seems overpriced.  That is just IMO.  I think I would go with the Sennheiser PC37X over that for much cheaper if you want a headset.
> 
> I'm also not a fan of in-line volume controls on cables.  Much rather have it at the amp or headset itself.  Again, that's a personal preference.
> 
> I play MW (2019) quite a bit on PS4 alternating between SHP9500 and X2HR headphones with a modmic.  I've replaced the pads on the SHP9500 with Shure 1840 velour pads. I usually reach for those for gaming, and the X2HR for movies.


So the SHP5000 that are on Amazon should suffice for COD/FPS games in reference to footsteps and directional imaging?  I'm tempted to get the 700x as well and see which is better. Both are lauded highly for FPS


----------



## PurpleAngel

casenote22 said:


> 700x, 900x o
> So the SHP5000 that are on Amazon should suffice for COD/FPS games in reference to footsteps and directional imaging?  I'm tempted to get the 700x as well and see which is better. Both are lauded highly for FPS


The Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphones are very bass light.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can always get something with a 3.5mm input and get an inline mic like the Vmoda BoomPro. IIRC the SHP9500 has a 3.5mm input so you can easily make it a headset.

I haven't heard the 9500 so, I dunno how effective it will be, but I've heard nothing but good things about it.


----------



## BRicardo

Hey,

Complete newbie to decent audio equipment here, so forgive me for asking stupid questions...

I'm planning on getting a decent audio setup for when the Playstation 5 releases. Aside from the PS5 it also needs to work on my PC. The main purpose would be for gaming/movies, and music to a lesser extent.

Now thanks to this thread I already have a couple of headphone candidates in mind (with the AKG K712 as the top option). However I'm still unsure about a lot of things.

1. I know the full PS5 specs haven't been revealed yet, but am I correct to assume that IF the PS5 comes with a Digital Out (Optical) port (like the PS4), that any DAC that uses this connection should be compatible? Am I also correct in assuming that USB DACs on the other hand could be a hit or miss?
2. Would the Creative Sound Blaster X7 (standard ed.) be a good DAC/AMP combo for the AKG K712? (Alternatively I could either upgrade to the Creative Sound Blaster X7 limited edition or downgrade to something like the AKG K612.)
3. Is there any chance the Creative Sound Blaster X7 will get a successor in the near future as far as anyone knows?


----------



## illram (May 29, 2020)

The reason you should wait is we don't know what sort of onboard surround audio the PS5 will ship with or whether it will be compatible with more hardware solutions beyond bitstreaming over optical. If it comes with a decent surround solution out of the box you might be able to skip the DAC/amp, or if it has USB surround functionality you have more dual-compatible PC/console options.

So, maybe make your headphone purchase now as the criteria for that won't change.


----------



## PurpleAngel

BRicardo said:


> Complete newbie to decent audio equipment here, so forgive me for asking stupid questions...
> I'm planning on getting a decent audio setup for when the Playstation 5 releases. Aside from the PS5 it also needs to work on my PC. The main purpose would be for gaming/movies, and music to a lesser extent.
> Now thanks to this thread I already have a couple of headphone candidates in mind (with the AKG K712 as the top option). However I'm still unsure about a lot of things.
> 1. I know the full PS5 specs haven't been revealed yet, but am I correct to assume that IF the PS5 comes with a Digital Out (Optical) port (like the PS4), that any DAC that uses this connection should be compatible? Am I also correct in assuming that USB DACs on the other hand could be a hit or miss?
> ...


Creative Labs X7 comes with more features then you need.


----------



## BRicardo

Alright thanks @ illram & PurpleAngel!

And I definitely had no intention on buying anything before the full PS5 specs are revealed. Just wanted a headstart learning about possible solutions.


----------



## Evshrug (Jun 1, 2020)

@BRicardo In summary, some things look promising, but we just don’t know enough yet and history shows that we’re not going to get enough information from companies about the audio possibilities and workarounds until enthusiasts like us get our hands on the consoles.

Some things to keep in mind...
Optical Out can only send two channels (stereo) out in uncompressed PCM; for surround, your next device would need to be able to decode a Dolby Digital Live bitstream, and be able to process a binaural headphone surround mix from that bitstream (So, it would need to have a DSP function, DAC function, and either a built-in or separate amp).

When Xbox and PlayStation released their slim consoles, they both dropped the optical port. Xbox also never supported generic stereo USB Audio support, so users of that console were even worse off than PlayStation (which does support USB Stereo). The Pro/X models still had Optical, but hopefully the console makers don’t see the connection as a dying standard. If they cut the optical port, current DSP devices that rely on optical could continue to be used if you have a breakout box that takes HDMI-in and has HDMI-out and Optical-out, or if you have a TV that has an optical output built-in (My Panasonic has this, also supporting Dolby bitstream passthrough, love it).

However, both consoles (and particularly Sony) have included discussion of 3D Audio and headphones/headsets, so maybe they will have better support in the next generation. However, this is not a guarantee, as the PS4/XBO generation also touted TrueAudio 3D and Sphere audio respectively, and virtually no titles took advantage of it (Thief is the only one I know used TrueAudio 3D on PC computers with the same graphics card used in the PS4, and while the game supported headphone surround I don’t know if it used a lesser 3D processing codec, and at any rate I got bored of the game and never finished it). There were a few games that had their own binaural headphone surround built-in (and these worked great with gener, notably the Battlefield series and The Last Of Us, but it wasn’t widespread. The Bluetooth-streamed inexpensive audio from the controllers in the current generation held back the potential sound quality significantly, so hopefully the consoles will support binaural processing internally and then allow third party devices to connect via USB or optical. As a mainstream device, a game console isn’t going to have specialized components and design that enthusiasts are willing to spend in the aftermarket (like a DAC/Amp that costs as much as the whole console, or more!), so supporting third-party devices would be a nice compromise.

HDMI Headphone Surround processors currently are reeeeeeeeeaally rare and require a substantial investment, but if optical is dropped we might finally see some gaming accessories companies support this niche. There is a bit of a “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” question with 3D Audio: is there enough demand for the feature? Will 3D audio catch on if it’s actually widely available?

I have a Sony PSVR, and it has pretty fantastic full-3D audio (including above and below, not restricted to a number of speaker “channels”). VR is probably the best way right now to experience full, live, immersive 3D audio, but at least on the PSVR you have to use the (much better than the controller) DAC/amp built in-line with the VR headset cable. Something with the impedance of the HD 58X but the sensitivity and angled drivers of the HD 599/PC37X would be ideal in this situation.

We will just have to see what the future holds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## John_M

Evshrug said:


> @BRicardo
> 
> HDMI Headphone Surround processors currently are reeeeeeeeeaally rare and require a substantial investment, but if optical is dropped we might finally see some gaming accessories companies support this niche. There is a bit of a “which came first, the chicken or the egg?” question with 3D Audio: is there enough demand for the feature? Will 3D audio catch on if it’s actually widely available?



Just get a receiver that supports Dolby Headphone. These can be obtained cheaply and easily on eBay. E.g.:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/97513263

Although I think later Marantz models don't support Dolby Headphone (maybe they didn't want to pay the licensing).

This will take 7.1 LPCM and virtualise it. It will do a much better job than any of the gaming products using optical.

I used to have an NR1601 before I bought a Realiser (which uses HDMI as well but is, of course, a lot pricier...) Much better than Turtle Beach, Astro etc. The only downside is use of desk space.


----------



## Yethal

@Mad Lust Envy You wanted a Jotunheim with optical input
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3991#post-15651815


----------



## Evshrug

John_M said:


> Just get a receiver that supports Dolby Headphone. These can be obtained cheaply and easily on eBay. E.g.:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/97513263
> 
> ...



Believe me, I’m well aware of the discontinued receivers with Dolby Headphone. They still count as rare in my book. I also have a Realiser (A16, in before +$4k).


----------



## John_M

Haha, good to meet a fellow Realiser user on the gaming thread... you may also have come to the realisation that even the most expensive sound system in the world won't make that much difference to your level of play.  

I've played COD on a Realiser with a PRIR in recorded a room that would have cost about £200,000 and Stax SR-009s... and although the audio is better, it doesn't magically transform you into a much better player - you'd do better focusing on improving aim!


----------



## Evshrug

John_M said:


> Haha, good to meet a fellow Realiser user on the gaming thread... you may also have come to the realisation that even the most expensive sound system in the world won't make that much difference to your level of play.
> 
> I've played COD on a Realiser with a PRIR in recorded a room that would have cost about £200,000 and Stax SR-009s... and although the audio is better, it doesn't magically transform you into a much better player - you'd do better focusing on improving aim!


Honestly... aim and snap/flick control is very necessary, but I _heavily_ rely on audio. No, I won’t win every match, but finding supplies (or magical items in other games) is so much easier with binaural surround audio, and my reflexes are so keyed into my audio. If I go back to stereo or speakers built into my screen, I will seriously get 3/4 to _half_ the score I usually do. Audio is more useful to me than mini maps or radar.

Of course, in a role playing game, it’s just so much more immersive of an experience with great binaural audio. It “places me in the scene” more than 3D video or graphics detail.


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> I also have a Realiser





John_M said:


> good to meet a fellow Realiser user on the gaming thread.


guys - how well does the realiser work for surround in movies?  I was on the fence when it went live on KS, but now it is soooo expensive, so I am wondering if it is worth the investment (in your opinions, of course)?  Again, for movies in mind (not gaming)...


----------



## John_M

It exactly replicates a speaker surround system which you take a recording in save that the bass won't have the same 'feel.' That's all there is to say, really. So it will be as good as the room you do the recording in. Obviously, the better the speakers/ room you record, the better the Realiser will do.



Evshrug said:


> Honestly... aim and snap/flick control is very necessary, but I _heavily_ rely on audio. No, I won’t win every match, but finding supplies (or magical items in other games) is so much easier with binaural surround audio, and my reflexes are so keyed into my audio. If I go back to stereo or speakers built into my screen, I will seriously get 3/4 to _half_ the score I usually do. Audio is more useful to me than mini maps or radar.
> 
> Of course, in a role playing game, it’s just so much more immersive of an experience with great binaural audio. It “places me in the scene” more than 3D video or graphics detail.



If you're comparing to no surround audio at all then yes it makes a massive difference.

But if you're comparing (say) a K701 on Dolby Headphone to a really top class system (say the SR-009 used with a Realiser) then, although the latter is noticeably better, it's not going to transform your standard. The K701 on Dolby Headphone gives you a decent enough idea where the enemies are.


----------



## Evshrug

John_M said:


> It exactly replicates a speaker surround system which you take a recording in save that the bass won't have the same 'feel.' That's all there is to say, really. So it will be as good as the room you do the recording in. Obviously, the better the speakers/ room you record, the better the Realiser will do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This latter part is true, and applies to @Zachik ’s question as well. I still use my DSS2 (on PS4) or GSX 1000 (Mac & Windows) when I don’t feel like using all the electricity of my big stack and want to keep things simple. In a practical sense, all of these are good enough for me to get a sense of direction without getting confused. However, I found the GSX 1000 processing to be more realistic to me than Dolby or SBX (it happens to suit my ears and HRTF), and the Realizer’s stated purpose is to be personalized to an individual’s HRTF and to act as a DSP to make the headphone’s tonality match a speaker setup, meaning it has the potential to make headphones sound all the more transparent and natural, plus it takes a USB or HDMI signal and sends the binaural mix out to whatever high-end DAC/amp setup you want. Whether that transparency is worth it is entirely up to personal opinion, though I will say that firsthand experience tends to bias the opinion in a certain direction 😉


----------



## John_M

I should add... I'm talking about Call of Duty. It may be that the Realiser gives a bigger advantage in other games. 

On COD it is an advantage but not transformative compared to Dolby Headphone/ K701 - it's only one of a number of things that make a good player. I mean the pro guys are playing on Astros and they are still 1000x times better than me.



Evshrug said:


> This latter part is true, and applies to @Zachik ’s question as well. I still use my DSS2 (on PS4) or GSX 1000 (Mac & Windows) when I don’t feel like using all the electricity of my big stack and want to keep things simple. In a practical sense, all of these are good enough for me to get a sense of direction without getting confused. However, I found the GSX 1000 processing to be more realistic to me than Dolby or SBX (it happens to suit my ears and HRTF), and the Realizer’s stated purpose is to be personalized to an individual’s HRTF and to act as a DSP to make the headphone’s tonality match a speaker setup, meaning it has the potential to make headphones sound all the more transparent and natural, plus it takes a USB or HDMI signal and sends the binaural mix out to whatever high-end DAC/amp setup you want. Whether that transparency is worth it is entirely up to personal opinion, though I will say that firsthand experience tends to bias the opinion in a certain direction 😉


----------



## Zachik

Dolby Headphone vs. GSX 1000 vs. Realiser - when using it for watching a movie on living room TV, the first 2 just cannot be connected... Realiser is the only option.
Only option of getting surround without running wires to the back of the room, is getting something like the Realiser.
For the KS price of $1000 or thereabout - it is (for me) a no-brainer. But for the $4000 price tag now... likely a showstopper


----------



## Chastity (Jun 4, 2020)

Evshrug said:


> This latter part is true, and applies to @Zachik ’s question as well. I still use my DSS2 (on PS4) or GSX 1000 (Mac & Windows) when I don’t feel like using all the electricity of my big stack and want to keep things simple. In a practical sense, all of these are good enough for me to get a sense of direction without getting confused. However, I found the GSX 1000 processing to be more realistic to me than Dolby or SBX (it happens to suit my ears and HRTF), and the Realizer’s stated purpose is to be personalized to an individual’s HRTF and to act as a DSP to make the headphone’s tonality match a speaker setup, meaning it has the potential to make headphones sound all the more transparent and natural, plus it takes a USB or HDMI signal and sends the binaural mix out to whatever high-end DAC/amp setup you want. Whether that transparency is worth it is entirely up to personal opinion, though I will say that firsthand experience tends to bias the opinion in a certain direction 😉


Does the Realiser allow for Windows Audio to be configured for 7.1, so that games will use that?  I see it can use HDMI or USB connection... and $4K pricetag... oyy


----------



## Got the Shakes

Chastity said:


> Does the Realiser allow for Windows Audio to be configured for 7.1, so that games will use that?  I see it can use HDMI or USB connection... and $4K pricetag... oyy



Via HDMI the options I’ve seen and used through the Windows sound settings with my Realiser A16 are 2.0 stereo, 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos for Home Theater.


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## Chastity

Got the Shakes said:


> Via HDMI the options I’ve seen and used through the Windows sound settings with my Realiser A16 are 2.0 stereo, 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos for Home Theater.


Seems to be the very thing I'd want for my system, but not at $4K.  Ugh.


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> Seems to be the very thing I'd want for my system, but not at $4K.  Ugh.


Same!
Maybe Drop would start selling it for $2k..... (one can hope... )


----------



## Chastity

Zachik said:


> Same!
> Maybe Drop would start selling it for $2k..... (one can hope... )


Especially since you can get the Win10 Dolby Access / DTS: Headphone X plugin for $11 each


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> Especially since you can get the Win10 Dolby Access / DTS: Headphone X plugin for $11 each


My AV Receiver does not run Win10... Neither does my TV...    
For watching movies on my laptop - that would be an option, though.


----------



## illram

Got the Shakes said:


> Via HDMI the options I’ve seen and used through the Windows sound settings with my Realiser A16 are 2.0 stereo, 5.1 surround, 7.1 surround, and Dolby Atmos for Home Theater.


So with the Realiser hooked up you get an Atmos for Home theater option in addition to the other speaker options? That's interesting. 

Hope you get yours back soon, BTW. I cannot imagine waiting so long to get it and then waiting again to get it back for the new board!


----------



## Got the Shakes

illram said:


> So with the Realiser hooked up you get an Atmos for Home theater option in addition to the other speaker options? That's interesting.
> 
> Hope you get yours back soon, BTW. I cannot imagine waiting so long to get it and then waiting again to get it back for the new board!



Yeah Windows treats it as any other Atmos capable receiver since it can decode Atmos. There’s a handful of games on Windows that I’ve used it with that I know support it like The Division 2 and Borderlands 3.

Ha. You and me both. Not surprising given how they handle everything, but we’re now two weeks past their estimated completion date and it’s been radio silence about what is going on.


----------



## DenverW

The day a consumer priced realizer option appears on the market will be quite a happy day for me.  I missed the drop for this (and the a8) but its what I'm looking for to make my movie watching "next level."  

Someday....someday!


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## Mad Lust Envy

Sony is unveiling the PS5 on Thursday, and they said we should listen to the stream with headphones.

I think they're gonna provide is with the new headphone-centric features at least in some segments.

We may finally not need any external solutions!


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, I'm looking forward to this


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## John_M

Impossible for it to be "Realiser like" - it will just be like Dolby Headphone but with height channels.


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## Fegefeuer

No, that would be a static model. It's a fully object-based binaural model with way more points in the XYZ Grid than a mere 11.2.4 or anything.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Height based channels are the most important improvement that can be made from what we get today. You realize you don't need more than 5.1 + height channels to get the most important awareness. So to get object based info with height cues would be even better.


----------



## mindbomb (Jun 9, 2020)

As Sony embraces the type of processing we have been advocating for over a decade now, it is a good time to sit back and enjoy some sweet vindication. Remember the countless forum posters who thought that the processing was a gimmick and that all you needed was open back headphones? And all the people drawing incorrect conclusions from that virtual barber shop video? Good times.


----------



## funnyjoke

If I wanted a headset that's good for competitive gaming but also makes listening to music a pleasure, should I look no further than the Beyerdynamic DT990s or the Philips X2s?

Also, in the rating you've given to the Beyerdynamic DT990, do you also mean to include the 250 ohm ones?

Sorry for asking this question if it's dumb, and thanks. xD


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 11, 2020)

funnyjoke said:


> If I wanted a headset that's good for competitive gaming but also makes listening to music a pleasure, should I look no further than the Beyerdynamic DT990s or the Philips X2s?
> 
> Also, in the rating you've given to the Beyerdynamic DT990, do you also mean to include the 250 ohm ones?
> 
> Sorry for asking this question if it's dumb, and thanks. xD



The X2 would be a better choice as it's more neutral. The 990 is a bit too leaning on bass and ESPECIALLY treble.

And yes, the all variants of the 990 would get the same score. From my experience, the 250ohm was actually the least favorable of the 3, as the midrange was less audible than the 32 and 600ohm versions.

I know I gave the 880 some flak, but I'd steer people more towards the 880 over the 990 if they want something more balanced for more versatility. I think the 880 is something I'd like to revisit, with other surround solutions and better amplification than what I used back then when I gave my aged impressions.

In terms of sound quality, I'd put the 880 over the X2, and the X2 over the 990.


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## funnyjoke

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The X2 would be a better choice as it's more neutral. The 990 is a bit too leaning on bass and ESPECIALLY treble.
> 
> And yes, the all variants of the 990 would get the same score. From my experience, the 250ohm was actually the least favorable of the 3, as the midrange was less audible than the 32 and 600ohm versions.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply. Which amp would you recommend to pair the DT880s or DT990s with for total beginners?

Also, have you ever tried the Anker Soundcore Vortex headphones? And what about the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X? If you have, how would you rate them?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

funnyjoke said:


> Thanks for the reply. Which amp would you recommend to pair the DT880s or DT990s with for total beginners?
> 
> Also, have you ever tried the Anker Soundcore Vortex headphones? And what about the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X? If you have, how would you rate them?


If they're not in the guide, you can assume I haven't tried them. There are quite a bit that I just didn't put in the guide like the TH900, but generally if gamers are interested, headphones I test will end up on the guide.

Im not super anal about amplification and would easily be happy with a new Schiit Magni for most headphones. Maybe the Asgard for the 600ohm variants.


----------



## funnyjoke

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If they're not in the guide, you can assume I haven't tried them. There are quite a bit that I just didn't put in the guide like the TH900, but generally if gamers are interested, headphones I test will end up on the guide.
> 
> Im not super anal about amplification and would easily be happy with a new Schiit Magni for most headphones. Maybe the Asgard for the 600ohm variants.



So I have to spend $100 extra just for a good experience? xD
Should I instead just go for something that's lower impedance?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, all his suggestions are fine. Get Modi 3 + Magni3+ and enjoy gaming.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 11, 2020)

funnyjoke said:


> So I have to spend $100 extra just for a good experience? xD
> Should I instead just go for something that's lower impedance?


No, but let's say I had nothing and was aiming around building a setup around 600ohm headphones, I'd personally go with an Asgard level amp. But that's definitely not necessary for a great experience. Like Fege said, a Magni + will likely lead you to a great solution. I only have a Magni 3 now, and I'd definitely still be fine using it if I picked up a 600ohm headphones.


----------



## PurpleAngel

funnyjoke said:


> If I wanted a headset that's good for competitive gaming but also makes listening to music a pleasure, should I look no further than the Beyerdynamic DT990s or the Philips X2s?
> Also, in the rating you've given to the Beyerdynamic DT990, do you also mean to include the 250 ohm ones?
> Sorry for asking this question if it's dumb, and thanks. xD


Soundmagic (32-Ohm) HP200 headphones, like an improved DT990.



funnyjoke said:


> Thanks for the reply. Which amp would you recommend to pair the DT880s or DT990s with for total beginners?
> Also, have you ever tried the Anker Soundcore Vortex headphones? And what about the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 58X? If you have, how would you rate them?


What is your budget for a DAC/amp?
I do like my HD58X headphones, use them everyday.
I own the DT880 (250-Ohm & 600-Ohm) and the DT990 (250-Ohm & 600-Ohm), but never really use them.



funnyjoke said:


> So I have to spend $100 extra just for a good experience? xD
> Should I instead just go for something that's lower impedance?


Yes, no really good reason for buying high impedance headphones (unless they are the 300-Ohm HD600/HD650/HD6XX).


----------



## funnyjoke

PurpleAngel said:


> What is your budget for a DAC/amp?
> I do like my HD58X headphones, use them everyday.
> I own the DT880 (250-Ohm & 600-Ohm) and the DT990 (250-Ohm & 600-Ohm), but never really use them.



I have a fairly big budget but since I'm just entering into it, I wanted it to be as cheap as possible.
If I buy an amp, do I need to buy a DAC with it as well? Is it necessary?

Also, since you have the HD 58X, would you recommend them over DT990?


----------



## PurpleAngel

funnyjoke said:


> I have a fairly big budget but since I'm just entering into it, I wanted it to be as cheap as possible.
> If I buy an amp, do I need to buy a DAC with it as well? Is it necessary?
> 
> Also, since you have the HD 58X, would you recommend them over DT990?


I like the HD58X over the DT990, DT990 might be slightly better for FPS gaming, but i'm not into FPS gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the 58X is anything like the 6XX then it's a stark difference after the bass. Midrange would be full on the Sennheiser, and soft treble. The 990 would be soft midrange, and really strong treble. They would be very much different sounding.


----------



## sherm137

Alright friends, I need help. I can't decide on the best pair of headphones for me. I have a max budget of $500. I want really good imaging for competitive FPS but I also want something with a decent frequency response for listening to music. A few headphones I've tried have been solid but have been flawed (and I know there is no perfect headphone, but am trying to get the best).

A few headphones I've tried for gaming:

AKG K702 - solid but I don't like the 3-5K dip for music
DT880 - another solid headphone but the treble is a bit bright and I thought the imaging was underwhelming
I've owned many other headphones for music, but this is the first time I'm really trying to find something really, really good for gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Try the Fidelio X2.


----------



## sherm137

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Try the Fidelio X2.



Thanks for the response but I'm a little worried I will have the same issue with it as the K702. The sucked out upper mids/lower treble is a bummer.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Try the Ananda if you can get it for cheap in the used market.

btw MLE: I found a HE-4 again! From a great EU guy too!


----------



## sherm137

Fegefeuer said:


> Try the Ananda if you can get it for cheap in the used market.
> 
> btw MLE: I found a HE-4 again! From a great EU guy too!


Had the Ananda. Loved the Sound. The fit was really bad for me


----------



## Fegefeuer

That's a bummer. What did you not like about the fit? The lack of swivel? 

Have you listened to the Edition X V2?


----------



## sherm137

The cups don't fit my head well and the bottoms of them sit on my jaw. It gets pretty uncomfortable after a while.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jun 17, 2020)

https://wccftech.com/razer-thx-spat...romising-gamers-superior-positional-accuracy/

anyone tried this?


----------



## Hemlocke

Fegefeuer said:


> https://wccftech.com/razer-thx-spat...romising-gamers-superior-positional-accuracy/
> 
> anyone tried this?



I replied to a similar question in Nameless PC gaming thread, but to summarize: If it’s Razer software, it is heavy data mining software with multiple processes reporting back to Razer. I shut off internet access to Synapse 3, and it stopped working completely. It’s RGB control software, and should never need internet access, but it won’t function without it.


----------



## Symstic

@Mad Lust Envy There is much noise in my room, i have to choose a closed-back headset/headphone for FPS gaming. I'm a little confused, can you help me ? Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus is good choice for me or Sennheiser Game Zero ? Audio Technica ATH M40x is also on my mind. if you have a better advice please suggest to me or help me for choose. Thanks and sorry for bad English.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Symstic said:


> @Mad Lust Envy There is much noise in my room, i have to choose a closed-back headset/headphone for FPS gaming. I'm a little confused, can you help me ? Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus is good choice for me or Sennheiser Game Zero ? Audio Technica ATH M40x is also on my mind. if you have a better advice please suggest to me or help me for choose. Thanks and sorry for bad English.


We can assume your plugging the headphones into the on-board audio, of a Windows 10 PC?
The BCCOPP (Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus) is only 16-Ohm, which to me says it designed to work well plugged into a portable (battery powered) device, like a smartphone, but would work at least decently with on-board audio.
Sennheiser Game Zero, kind of like a HD558/HD598, with a mic added on.
Check out the Soundmagic HP151 headphones and the Modmic.


----------



## Symstic

PurpleAngel said:


> We can assume your plugging the headphones into the on-board audio, of a Windows 10 PC?
> The BCCOPP (Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro Plus) is only 16-Ohm, which to me says it designed to work well plugged into a portable (battery powered) device, like a smartphone, but would work at least decently with on-board audio.
> Sennheiser Game Zero, kind of like a HD558/HD598, with a mic added on.
> Check out the Soundmagic HP151 headphones and the Modmic.




Firstly thanks for the answer. I have a Soundblaster Z sound card right now. If you suggest me to upgrade, i will. You recommend Game Zero and Soundmagic HP151 more than BCOPP ?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Symstic said:


> Firstly thanks for the answer. I have a Soundblaster Z sound card right now. If you suggest me to upgrade, i will. You recommend Game Zero and Soundmagic HP151 more than BCOPP ?


The Sound Blaster-Z sound card's headphone amplifier, with a 22-Ohm output impedance, so a headphone with a 178-Ohm or 220-Ohm or higher would be recommended, for best damping control.
80-Ohm to 150-Ohm headphones, if they are considered good bangfor the buck headphones
But I've plugged 50-Ohm Sennheisers into a SB-Z card and it sounded good enough.


----------



## Wintersun2015

Sorry i already asked but got no replies,

Wanted to get a schiit stack to upgrade my old O2,Heresy or Magni 3+ ? I'm gonna pair it with 1990s and main use is FPS gaming.

PS: any suggestions where to buy schiit gear from EU ? 

Thank you


----------



## halcyon

Wintersun2015 said:


> Sorry i already asked but got no replies,
> Wanted to get a schiit stack to upgrade my old O2,Heresy or Magni 3+ ? I'm gonna pair it with 1990s and main use is FPS gaming.
> 
> PS: any suggestions where to buy schiit gear from EU ?


https://www.schiit-europe.com/
*info@sonority-audio.nl* 

Why do you feel that your old system is lacking? What are you looking for (more)?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Wintersun2015 said:


> Sorry i already asked but got no replies,
> Wanted to get a schiit stack to upgrade my old O2,Heresy or Magni 3+ ? I'm gonna pair it with 1990s and main use is FPS gaming.
> PS: any suggestions where to buy schiit gear from EU ?
> 
> Thank you


What are you using for a DAC?
I would assume the O2 headphone amplifier can decently drive the 250-Ohm DT1990?
But if you prefer a Schiit stack, go for it.


----------



## Wintersun2015 (Jun 20, 2020)

halcyon said:


> https://www.schiit-europe.com/
> *info@sonority-audio.nl*
> 
> Why do you feel that your old system is lacking? What are you looking for (more)?



Well i have some money to burn and i feel the 1990 are not performing as they should with the O2 + ODAC combo.

Thank you for the links,sadly they are out of stock 





PurpleAngel said:


> What are you using for a DAC?
> I would assume the O2 headphone amplifier can decently drive the 250-Ohm DT1990?
> But if you prefer a Schiit stack, go for it.



I'm using the old(2014) O2 + ODAC combo built by  Head 'n' HiFi  in Europe.


----------



## Califinest (Jun 20, 2020)

So I'm currently using a Sennheiser 598SR for my gaming sessions. I never used a amp before but just bought a soundblaster G6 which is returnable for next 30 days. I play a lot of games from pc/xbox/ps4/switch. So far I've noticed a big improvment in my 598sr with the amp on my ps4. That said it was $150, would I be better off returning it and getting a x7 or schiit Hel thx 789? I'm also looking at upgrading my headphones to maybe a DT880pro or a HD650. Any thoughts/recomendations? Also thought of buying a 2013 mixamp off ebay for my xbox one so I wont have issues with mic. Another note while i play competiive games online I'm mostly looking for a immersive headset for singeplayer and movies. Thanks for any input!


----------



## Chastity

Wintersun2015 said:


> Well i have some money to burn and i feel the 1990 are not performing as they should with the O2 + ODAC combo.
> 
> Thank you for the links,sadly they are out of stock
> 
> ...


The Asgard 3 is a much better pairing with the DT-1990 than the Magni 3+/Heresy.  The DT-1990 is a very dynamic-capable headphone, and benefits from the generous Class A power of the Asgard 3.  Plus the volume pot is MUCH better.  You can use a Modi with it, or a Modius, or any other DAC actually.  I use the SMSL M300 MK II, and a FX Audio TUBE-01 tube buffer / preamp.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Does anyone have more news on the Creative SXFI Carrier yet? 
Shoud be coming out pretty soon.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Califinest said:


> So I'm currently using a Sennheiser 598SR for my gaming sessions. I never used a amp before but just bought a soundblaster G6 which is returnable for next 30 days. I play a lot of games from pc/xbox/ps4/switch. So far I've noticed a big improvement in my 598sr with the amp on my ps4. That said it was $150, would I be better off returning it and getting a x7 or schiit Hel thx 789? I'm also looking at upgrading my headphones to maybe a DT880pro or a HD650. Any thoughts/recommendations? Also thought of buying a 2013 mixamp off ebay for my xbox one so I wont have issues with mic. Another note while i play competitive games online I'm mostly looking for a immersive headset for single player and movies. Thanks for any input!


With the HD598SR, I doubt the X7 or Schiit Hel or THX 789 would offer any improvement in audio quality or FPS gaming, over the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6.
Something like the HD650 (with a balanced cable), might do better audio quality wise, with the THX 789 (guessing).
Guessing the DT880 & HD650 will not offer any improvements for FPS gaming.
If your looking for a more lively sound, check out the 32-Ohm Soundmagic HP200 headphones.


----------



## Busterofwar

Could someone help me with finding the right audio output settings for The Last of Us 2 with my setup? 

I have an Astro Mixamp 2011 with Fidelio X2's and here are my current in-game settings.

Device: Home Theater
Channels: 5.1
Center Channel: Dialogue + Effects
Dynamic Range: Wide
Surround Speaker Azimuths: Defaults


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Busterofwar said:


> Could someone help me with finding the right audio output settings for The Last of Us 2 with my setup?
> 
> I have an Astro Mixamp 2011 with Fidelio X2's and here are my current in-game settings.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm using for the game. Sometimes there are weird panning issues, but I blame it on the game, not the settings. Naughty Dog games don't tend to have the best surround mixing.


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## armv

After a lot of research and using Mad Lust Envy's excellent guide, I think I've reached my final two contenders for a "fun", wide, open-back headphone to be used primarily for console gaming for around $200.

Philips Fidelio X2HR or the Beyerdynamic TYGR 300 R

I'm mostly a single-player guy, but not opposed to some multi-player games (non-competitively) from time to time. At the moment not planning to utilize a DAC/AMP (hence low impedance headphones), but something I'd be considering adding at a later date. 

Any thoughts/suggestions on either of the above? Perhaps another set that I've overlooked worth mentioning?


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## Xqst

Wow. I've been using the K702 on High Gain with the FiiO E10K. 
Yesterday I got a pair of HD 599 used along with the FiiO E10K and I gotta say, both for gaming and music, I muuuch prefer the HD 599... Why's that?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 30, 2020)

Xqst said:


> Wow. I've been using the K702 on High Gain with the FiiO E10K.
> Yesterday I got a pair of HD 599 used along with the FiiO E10K and I gotta say, both for gaming and music, I muuuch prefer the HD 599... Why's that?


Because we all have differences in tastes? For one, the 599 would have a another response, while the K702 is emphasized now in your details. Preferring a smoother response is generally what people prefer.

That and you're not giving the K702 a good amp. The K702 has been known for at LEAST a decade that it is dependent on what gear you pair it with. A cheap-o Fiio portable amp is not it.


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## DenverW

Here's one I'd never heard of but got as a recommendation: https://www.redscapeaudio.com/.


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## halcyon

DenverW said:


> Here's one I'd never heard of but got as a recommendation: https://www.redscapeaudio.com/.


I hope all of these boutique companies would tell us the basic minimum:


- latency of processing in ms
- HRTF algo/standard/approach used
- amount of reverb/echo applied (and if user adjustable)
- input/output streams supported (RedScape specifies WSAPI and ASIO, but no standard levels/versions)

Guess we'll just have to wait for somebody to plunk down the money and test it. I'm not going to waste another $200 on an unproven boutique design from a small company that might be bankrupt in 6 months.


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## Radio81

I think I've reached the point of diminishing returns.  Last night I hooked up the following to my PS4:

Turtle Beach Elite TAC (Tactical Audio Controller)
Schiit Loki
Schiit Magni 3

I've had all this stuff for a few years but I haven't used them in at least two years.  Since then I've tried an Astro Mixamp 5.8, Creative Soundblaster G5, and a Logitech G533 wireless headset.  I bought the G533 sometime last year because I wanted to go fully wireless, but stereo only on PS4 is meh.  On PC they probably fare better.  Great mic though.  The Mixamp 5.8 is a great piece of tech for the single aspect that I can use my own cans and get some portability and surround processing in a wireless transmitter/receiver combo.  It's probably my favorite piece of headphone gear.  The G5 has plenty of power and sounds great, but lacks true surround processing on PS4, and there's really not a good way to control the game/chat audio mix, anyway.

I finally spent some time yesterday routing optical and USB cables to my seating position so that I could again try out the Turtle Beach/Schiit combo.

Enter the Turtle Beach TAC.  I will get this out of the way first...it is extremely underpowered.  Even with low impedance headphones (X2HR and SHP9500) I can't even get the TAC to a reasonable volume level.  So I then ran the output from the TAC to the Magni 3.  Now I had plenty of volume but found the sound to be way too lean.  No bass whatsoever.  I'm guessing this is part of the TAC's processing.  I tried all the processing and surround modes and notice little difference in bass.  On it's own, a mixamp or G6 is a better choice, IMO.  I then added the Loki 4-band EQ, and that allowed me to add some bass and reduce a little treble from the TAC.  I tried it out for a bit last night on Ghost Recon: Wildlands, and it's a very clear difference coming from the Mixamp 5.8.  Having the ability to tweak the EQ on demand is a nice touch.  I gave up some wireless freedom, but gained some sound quality.

If I had to knock the setup for one thing, is that I notice a slight hiss at higher volumes with no content, or just sitting at the PS4 menu.  Not sure if this is from the TAC, Schiit gear, or the no name RCA and 3.5mm interconnect cables I'm using, but it's really not enough for me to worry about.

Oh, and I'm using a wireless Modmic.  I think I'm good for awhile, unless something better is released when the PS5 drops.


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## remygee

Hello all, I started PC gaming about 6 months ago and was using a pair of Astro A40s.  I could not distinguish footsteps to the point where I enabled visual hearing in my game.  I recently did some research and found out A40s are pretty bad.  I had a pair of AD700s from 2010 and tried those out and shockingly footsteps were now easy to hear.  Apparently the Mixamp's post processing was very much distorting the audio and a good pair of stereo headphones was a massive upgrade.   I didn't think I would ever disable visual hearing, very thankful for forums like this that showed me the truth. 

A quick question:  my 2010 AD700s are not in the best of shape.  Is there a worthy upgrade that I can purchase if I only use the headphone for gaming?  Looking at the guide, it seems like a no?  I saw the AD700x might be a slight downgrade from the old AD700s too.

thank you for any advice!


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## jincuteguy

So what' sthe best surround sound device now? Sound Blaster X3?


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## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> So what' sthe best surround sound device now? Sound Blaster X3?


X3 would have been interesting to me if it output SXFI over toslink, which it does not.  Only SBX.


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## AppleheadMay

SBX G6.


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## PurpleAngel

remygee said:


> Hello all, I started PC gaming about 6 months ago and was using a pair of Astro A40s.  I could not distinguish footsteps to the point where I enabled visual hearing in my game.  I recently did some research and found out A40s are pretty bad.  I had a pair of AD700s from 2010 and tried those out and shockingly footsteps were now easy to hear.  Apparently the Mixamp's post processing was very much distorting the audio and a good pair of stereo headphones was a massive upgrade.   I didn't think I would ever disable visual hearing, very thankful for forums like this that showed me the truth.
> A quick question:  my 2010 AD700s are not in the best of shape.  Is there a worthy upgrade that I can purchase if I only use the headphone for gaming?  Looking at the guide, it seems like a no?  I saw the AD700x might be a slight downgrade from the old AD700s too.
> thank you for any advice!


Guessing the AD700 or AD700X are both still good choices.
Sennheiser HD598 seem to also be good for FPS gaming.


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## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> SBX G6.


I'd still say the X7.


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## Xqst

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Because we all have differences in tastes? For one, the 599 would have a another response, while the K702 is emphasized now in your details. Preferring a smoother response is generally what people prefer.
> 
> That and you're not giving the K702 a good amp. The K702 has been known for at LEAST a decade that it is dependent on what gear you pair it with. A cheap-o Fiio portable amp is not it.



I see.
Só what dac/amp would you recommend for the akg? 
I'm in Europe so it's tough to get good dac/amps


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## suspects

How is the SoundBlaster G6 on ps4? I'm mostly concerned with microphones working through it, so does that work? Are there any functions that don't work on ps4?


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## Snikibiki (Jul 11, 2020)

The wider soundstage the harder it makes to imagine/catch where enemy is in *close range?*


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## Mad Lust Envy

Snikibiki said:


> The wider soundstage the harder it makes to imagine/catch where enemy is in *close range?*


That can be a detriment, which is why a lot of people do like closed headphones with intimate soundstages as well. I think bigger soundstages are more beneficial to casual, less competitive gaming. If you're super hardcore, I think it really varies from person to person. For me, as long as I k ow the general direction sounds are coming from, I don't really care if the sounds are far or close sounding. The general direction is more important to me than whether its far or close, because I'll turn the character towards the sound and my eyes will pick up if they're close or far.


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## HifiCatt (Jul 12, 2020)

Hi all,

Still very new to the audio landscape, thankfully the wealth of experience contained within the thread, has been beyond useful!

l'm looking for something that allows me to get immersed in my media ( elevate movies and get lost in my music and single player games). I've always liked the idea of having a home theatre setup so sound quality and VSS possibilities are important factors.

To give you a brief background i'm coming from headphones such as the Sony 1000XM3s and Vmoda Crossfades(gen 1).

I'm not entirely ready to commit to one idea or the other yet (evidenced  by thoughts on the pandas) as another big consideration is longevity. Once I've settled on a decent setup  chances are it won't be changed for a while; so take this post as more of a rough idea of where my heads at currently.

_So I'm thinking......_

*Drop thx pandas coupled with Dolby Atmos for headphones* (I'm curious about the planars as i've read/ heard good  things and I like the idea of the pandas as an 'all in one' package but thats not strong enough reason alone to have warranted a  pre-order.Waiting on final reviews)

OR

*Hd 58x/6xx paired with creative's G6*.(Never before experienced open backs.....but their reputation among the community has me curious. I guess having mobility issues i've always had a marmite relationship with wires haha)

Budget wise, I'd ideally like to not go above the price of the pandas........and thats without any import fees attached. Imagine that'll be a headache to calculate.

Anyway all help is greatly appreciated!


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## jincuteguy

So between the GSX 1000 / 1200 and Sound Blaster X3, which one can be hooked up to an Amp like the Monoprice THX 887 or Massdrop THX 789, or SMSL SP200? So that I can still get the surround sound from the GSX 1000 or X3 and go through the Amp
Any infos would be appreciated.


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## halcyon (Jul 13, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> So between the GSX 1000 / 1200 and Sound Blaster X3, which one can be hooked up to an Amp like the Monoprice THX 887 or Massdrop THX 789, or SMSL SP200? So that I can still get the surround sound from the GSX 1000 or X3 and go through the Amp
> Any infos would be appreciated.



GSX1000/1200 does have an analog line out. That can be hooked up to the analog input of Massdrop THX XXX amp.

Creative X3 does NOT have an analog line out, only headphone out (for the 3D stereo effects). I don't know if the Digital OUT has the X3 3D virtualization included.

IF it has, then you need a DAC in between the X3 and your Massdrop THX headphone amp.

If it does NOT have the 3D virtualization via it's digital out, then you can't use it for it's intended purposes for 3D gaming (it's just a plain old stereo digital out in that case).

X3 owners can chime in on how the Digital OUT of X3 works in regards to the 3D Virtualization algorithms in X3.


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## Chastity

halcyon said:


> GSX1000/1200 does have an analog line out. That can be hooked up to the analog input of Massdrop THX XXX amp.
> 
> Creative X3 does NOT have an analog line out, only headphone out (for the 3D stereo effects). I don't know if the Digital OUT has the X3 3D virtualization included.
> 
> ...


The X3 supports SBX 7.1 via toslink out.  SXFi is only available via the headphone out.  You just need to enable the VSS mix in Speaker settings.  The G6 has a Line-Out and Toslink option and supports SBX 7.1 VSS over both.


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## HieroX

Hey all, I read that Creative is launching the SXFi Gamer headset on 7th July onwards. 

Apparently there's a new SXFi audio mode that's designed for games, called 'Battle Mode'. Do you think this mode will be made available to existing devices that have the SXFi feature?


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## Chastity

HieroX said:


> Hey all, I read that Creative is launching the SXFi Gamer headset on 7th July onwards.
> 
> Apparently there's a new SXFi audio mode that's designed for games, called 'Battle Mode'. Do you think this mode will be made available to existing devices that have the SXFi feature?


I still await for a SXFi over Digital-Out option


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## illram

Chastity said:


> I still await for a SXFi over Digital-Out option


Yep. Or a dedicated line out at least.

The headphone output on the dongle can get up to about the max voltage you'd want to use on a line-in (close to 4v IIRC). Didn't wreck my Koss E90 amp but it did make me nervous. (I used very low volume anyway).

Regarding any further DSP, I feel like their current product is already pretty great and I presume decoding Atmos (speakers, not the headphone digitization) is out of the question due to licensing issues, but that would be my next dream feature for this product. Then this would truly be a little cheap Realizer-lite.


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## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> The X3 supports SBX 7.1 via toslink out.  SXFi is only available via the headphone out.  You just need to enable the VSS mix in Speaker settings.  The G6 has a Line-Out and Toslink option and supports SBX 7.1 VSS over both.



I looked up the X3 on their website and it said the Optical Out has Dolby Digital Live encoded.  So do I need to decode the Dolby Digital Live in order to get the surround sound?

And is the VSS Mix in the Sound Blaster Command software?


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## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> I looked up the X3 on their website and it said the Optical Out has Dolby Digital Live encoded.  So do I need to decode the Dolby Digital Live in order to get the surround sound?
> 
> And is the VSS Mix in the Sound Blaster Command software?


The Optical Out has the option for DD Live output.  It can also do 7.1 HRTF Stereo out, and yes the VSS Mix option is in Command.


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## Chastity (Jul 15, 2020)

Oops, wrong thread.    Ignore this.


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## HifiCatt (Jul 15, 2020)

HifiCatt said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Still very new to the audio landscape, thankfully the wealth of experience contained within the thread, has been beyond useful!
> 
> ...



Please ignore the previous post.

Okay guys, after venturing down the 'headphone rabbit hole' further, my queries have changed.
The use case and the need for longevity(once I've settled on a setup chances are that maybe my endgame for a while) are still the same-media immersion(Movies, music and some gaming, to that end sound stage will be a big factor to consider).
Whilst I like clarity, I don't mind if the sound leans more towards the fun end of the spectrum than analytical.

These will be my first serious pair of headphones. I'm coming from the likes of Vmoda Crossfade(gen 1) and Sony 1000XM3s.

I've been looking at.....

Hifiman Sundara( Heard good things about them punching above their price bracket but all the qc problems have me hesitant)

and

Modhouse Argon MK3. Although I'm still not entirely sure the difference between the mk3 and the T60RP

Plan to pair them up to a creative soundblaster G6.


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## Hemlocke

I’m looking forward to seeing how these turn out:

*Introducing Penrose X and Penrose*
Say hello to the Audeze *Penrose X* and *Penrose* wireless planar magnetic gaming headsets. For the first time, you can experience the uncompromised audio quality Audeze is known for over a *2.4GHz lossless, low-latency wireless* connection that's compatible with Xbox Series X, PlayStation 5, Windows, Macintosh, and mobile systems.

*Penrose* features the same award-winning *100mm planar magnetic driver technology*that revolutionized gaming audio in the Audeze Mobius, together with a newly designed *broadcast quality microphone *for enhanced chat and streaming. Penrose also includes onboard *Bluetooth 5.0 *which can be paired simultaneously with *2.4GHz wireless*, so players can chat on their mobile device without interrupting their gaming experience.

By combining Audeze's legendary audio performance with the greatest in wireless and microphone technology, the *Penrose X* and *Penrose* will forever change the way you experience gaming audio.

*Penrose X* and *Penrose* are available to pre-order now at audeze.com/penrose. The first 1000 units will be available at just $249; that's $50 off the full retail price of $299!

https://www.audeze.com/products/penrose-wireless-planar-magnetic-headset


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## Fegefeuer

3D Audio over BT for the PS5 is probably a safe bet. Guessing USB too. Would be shocking if not with all that serious 3D Audio push.


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## AppleheadMay

Hmmm ...

How is Penrose different from Mobius?
Penrose is a Lossless, Low-Latency Wireless headset. While it does look like Mobius, it does not feature any of the 3D audio or head tracking technology included in Mobius. If you're looking for a true wireless gaming headset for console or PC, Penrose is the one for you!

Will Penrose and Penrose X support Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, or Windows Sonic for 3D audio rendering?
Penrose X will support these formats on Xbox Series X; detailed instructions will be included in the user guide.
Penrose, for PlayStation consoles, will not support these formats as Sony is taking a radically different approach to 3D audio in the PS5 with their new Tempest audio engine.


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## Doug2507

Any of you guys using audeze lcd-gx? Thoughts on them from experience?


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## Fegefeuer

Did you read the review that is indexed on the front page?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...missing-images.534479/page-2849#post-15139427


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## halcyon

Fegefeuer said:


> 3D Audio over BT for the PS5 is probably a safe bet. Guessing USB too. Would be shocking if not with all that serious 3D Audio push.


Penrose is a stereo headphone, with no built-in headphone multi-channel virtualization. IF the device using it, can push out already downmixed 3D virtualized sound, then Penrose will support it. IF not, oh well...


It's down to the PC/souncard/PS5/XboX now.


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## halcyon (Jul 15, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Will Penrose and Penrose X support Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, or Windows Sonic for 3D audio rendering?
> Penrose X will support these formats on Xbox Series X; detailed instructions will be included in the user guide.
> Penrose, for PlayStation consoles, will not support these formats as Sony is taking a radically different approach to 3D audio in the PS5 with their new Tempest audio engine.



Penrose will playback formats that are already downmixed to stereo by the device/game.
If a PC game supports Dolby Atmos (say  Overwatch), then that Dolby Atmos 3D stereo downmix is piped through the DirectSound API to any device connected to Windows via BT, dongle or wired 3.5mm plug and that will play back in ANY stereo headphone (to various degrees of success), including Penrose. 

Penrose itself does not know diddly-squat about Dolby, DTS, Windows Sonic, Waves NX or any other 3D virtualization tech. It just plays back signal given to it. It doesn' know how to decode or to create any of these signals. It's a plain-old stereo headphone.

If PS5 will feed downmixed virtualized HRTF stereo signal to any external headphone (and is NOT limited to Sony's own headphones via some proprietary technology), then Penrose will play this signal back, just like any other stereo headphone.

Penrose does NOT have any multi-channel input to 3D HRTF stereo virtualization CODEC built-in, like Mobius does, which has Waves NX in it's hardware/drivers. It can take multichannel source and downmix itself via Waves NX into a virtualized 3D stereo signal.


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## jincuteguy

Hemlocke said:


> I’m looking forward to seeing how these turn out:
> 
> *Introducing Penrose X and Penrose*
> Say hello to the Audeze *Penrose X* and *Penrose* wireless planar magnetic gaming headsets. For the first time, you can experience the uncompromised audio quality Audeze is known for over a *2.4GHz lossless, low-latency wireless* connection that's compatible with Xbox Series X, PlayStation 5, Windows, Macintosh, and mobile systems.
> ...



WoW, they took out the Virtual Surround Sound from the Mobius? How is it a gaming headset when they don't include Virtual Surround sound.


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## Fegefeuer

PS5 will deliver the surround sound and on PC you can use Dolby Access, DTS Headphone X, Waves NX etc etc


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## mindbomb

Yea, but at that point, you could just use any headphone. And there is some stiff competition from drop.


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## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> PS5 will deliver the surround sound and on PC you can use Dolby Access, DTS Headphone X, Waves NX etc etc



That is if PS5 doesn’t limit their surround to their Pulse 3D headphone only, like they do now with their Platinum headphone.


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## jincuteguy

Fegefeuer said:


> PS5 will deliver the surround sound and on PC you can use Dolby Access, DTS Headphone X, Waves NX etc etc





Chastity said:


> The X3 supports SBX 7.1 via toslink out.  SXFi is only available via the headphone out.  You just need to enable the VSS mix in Speaker settings.  The G6 has a Line-Out and Toslink option and supports SBX 7.1 VSS over both.



Ok just got a response back from Sound Blaster regarding the X3.  They said the X3 optical output doesn't have the SBX VSS, it only encoded in dolby digital live.  So you would need another DAC that can decode Dolby Digital Live such as an AVR to get the surround sound.  So I can't get the surround sound if I hooked it up to a DAC such as Topping DX7 Pro or any headphone DACs.


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## AppleheadMay

jincuteguy said:


> Ok just got a response back from Sound Blaster regarding the X3.  They said the X3 optical output doesn't have the SBX VSS, it only encoded in dolby digital live.  So you would need another DAC that can decode Dolby Digital Live such as an AVR to get the surround sound.  So I can't get the surround sound if I hooked it up to a DAC such as Topping DX7 Pro or any headphone DACs.



The SBX G6 does output the SBX VSS over optical to a stereo DAC, I use it that way with a Schiit Bifrost hooked up to a Jotunheim.
Why do you want the X3 in particular?


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## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> The SBX G6 does output the SBX VSS over optical to a stereo DAC, I use it that way with a Schiit Bifrost hooked up to a Jotunheim.
> Why do you want the X3 in particular?



I just got the X3 for the Super XFi, then I realized you can't get the XFi to another DAC / Amp.  I guess I might have to buy the G6.  But the Xfi is way better than the SBX


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## Chastity (Jul 16, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> Ok just got a response back from Sound Blaster regarding the X3. They said the X3 optical output doesn't have the SBX VSS, it only encoded in dolby digital live.


I know for a fact it does, as I have seen the Command screen postings, and comfirmed it on r/SoundBlasterOfficial.  Once again a Creative rep having no clue is answering questions.  If you want to use SXFi, then the X3 is going to be your DAC.


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## ronfifer

Anyone can review the new Epos|Sennheiser external soundcard?

Link to news article.


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## jincuteguy (Jul 18, 2020)

ronfifer said:


> Anyone can review the new Epos|Sennheiser external soundcard?
> 
> Link to news article.


Dang did they just release it? how come no one knows about it? I might get one

But they're cheaper than the GSX 1000 / 1200, so they can't be better.


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## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> Anyone can review the new Epos|Sennheiser external soundcard?
> 
> Link to news article.


I guess Epos/Senn is attacking Creative G6 slot.  I suspect it won't have that SPDIF out/VSS mix.


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## AppleheadMay

Chastity said:


> I know for a fact it does, as I have seen the Command screen postings, and comfirmed it on r/SoundBlasterOfficial.  Once again a Creative rep having no clue is answering questions.  If you want to use SXFi, then the X3 is going to be your DAC.



So it outputs both SBX VSS and SXFi through the optical output?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 19, 2020)

The Penrose doesn't need to have a virtual surround. We're gonna be covered in the console space. The problem will be with PC, and I guess you can deal with using the meh version of Atmos to my ears, or other things like DTS Headphone X, Razer, etc. That or buy an optical to usb device and use something like the G6/X7 for SBX. I might consider this myself. Edit: Never mind, looks like USB to optical is a thing, but optical to usb isn't. Ah well.

Audeze has already told me they'll be sending me a pair for review, so I'll figure this stuff out, since I'm a pc gamer first nowadays.


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## jincuteguy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Penrose doesn't need to have a virtual surround. We're gonna be covered in the console space. The problem will be with PC, and I guess you can deal with using the meh version of Atmos to my ears, or other things like DTS Headphone X, Razer, etc. That or buy an optical to usb device and use something like the G6/X7 for SBX. I might consider this myself. Edit: Never mind, looks like USB to optical is a thing, but optical to usb isn't. Ah well.
> 
> Audeze has already told me they'll be sending me a pair for review, so I'll figure this stuff out, since I'm a pc gamer first nowadays.



I know you have a lot of guides, but like what is your current setup like? for PC gaming


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## AppleheadMay

I just wonder about a small nearfield setup. 
Would it make sense to apply headphone virtualization (software or hardware) and send it to a pair of nearfield speakers?
Any thoughts on a setup like that?


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## Chastity

AppleheadMay said:


> I just wonder about a small nearfield setup.
> Would it make sense to apply headphone virtualization (software or hardware) and send it to a pair of nearfield speakers?
> Any thoughts on a setup like that?


It won't sound right spacially.  Behind you would sound above you, for example.  I tried.  



AppleheadMay said:


> So it outputs both SBX VSS and SXFi through the optical output?


The X3 only does SBX over optical.  SXFI is only available out it's analog headphone port.


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## AppleheadMay

Thanks!

I saw the X3 has the SXFi configuration in the SB Command app but weirdly enough for the SXFi Amp one needs another app on the PC.

I’m kindof waiting for the SXFi Carrier to come out.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 19, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> I know you have a lot of guides, but like what is your current setup like? for PC gaming


Simple.

For pc, I use the Asus Xonar U3 to feed Dolby Headphone to my Modi 3 via optical. The microphone feed is done by the Schiit Hel, and my Amp is the Magni 3.

I use the Sennheiser 6XX with the cheap clip on mic I've had for an eternity.

For console, I don't ever use chat. I have a Mixamp 5.8 connected to my TV's optical out which can do Dolby Digital 5.1 which the Mixamp turns to Dolby Headphone. I'll then either use my KSC75X or 6XX directly to the Mixamp. Not ideal for the 6XX, but I'm lazy and it works all I need it to.

Contrary to the guide's philosophies, I'm not all that strict on audio and gear, and I tend to use the KSC75X for almost all my needs when I'm at home. The 6XX comes out for the epic games or when I'm playing Warzone with friends, of only because using the clip on mic with the KSC75X is annoying.


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## jincuteguy (Jul 20, 2020)

Chastity said:


> It won't sound right spacially.  Behind you would sound above you, for example.  I tried.
> 
> 
> The X3 only does SBX over optical.  SXFI is only available out it's analog headphone port.



Ok got my Topping DX7 Pro DAC today, and i tested out the Optical from the X3.  And there was no VSS coming from the X3 optical.

Also got my Topping DX7 Pro DAC today.  And almost max out the volume on it with my Arya headphones.  I was like what? This DX7 Pro can't drive the Arya? kinda disappointed to be honest.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Simple.
> 
> For pc, I use the Asus Xonar U3 to feed Dolby Headphone to my Modi 3 via optical. The microphone feed is done by the Schiit Hel, and my Amp is the Magni 3.
> 
> ...



The Asus Xonar U3 has dolby headphone coming out from the Optical output?  that's nice


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> The Asus Xonar U3 has dolby headphone coming out from the Optical output?  that's nice


Yup. Such a great and inexpensive little device. Let's you use much better dacs than the one built in. PC only, of course.


----------



## jincuteguy

Any DAC out there that has a Line In 3.5mm input? Most of the DACs i see have Optical input only.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2020)

jincuteguy said:


> Any DAC out there that has a Line In 3.5mm input? Most of the DACs i see have Optical input only.



3.5mm input on a dac is not good, because 3.5mm line is analog. So if it did, you would just be doing analog to digital, back to analog.  Not exactly beneficial for audio quality, and redundant when the 3.5mm is already analog. That's why, it's amplifiers that have 3.5mm line input.

Now, if you have a device that is both a dac and amp, then a 3.5mm input may be offered, because there, the 3.5mm would feed directly to the amp portion, and not the DAC portion. The CXreative G6 is a dac+amp, and does have a 3.5mm input, as an example.

But yes, DAC only devices don't need or shouldn't have 3.5mm inputs.


Then there are 3.5mm inputs that are actually both a combo analog and optical input. So depending on the cable being used, and the setting on the device, this 3.5mm input can be either analog line in, or optical line in. The G6 has this. Again, mainly just found on dac+amps, like the G6 and Xonar U3.


----------



## mindbomb

So what is the deal with windows 10 spatial sound options? My impression is that it really only works well for a select few games and isn't a substitute for standard virtual 7.1 at this time.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2020)

mindbomb said:


> So what is the deal with windows 10 spatial sound options? My impression is that it really only works well for a select few games and isn't a substitute for standard virtual 7.1 at this time.


This. I still think Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, AND DTS Headphone X sound woeful from the Windows menu, and not representative of the techs when you have external devices with it.

I can't quite put my figure on it. I've heard Atmos and DTS Headphone X sound better from other methods like HeSuVi.

This is why I still use the Xonar U3 or G6 for Windows, since both Dolby Headphone and SBX sound way better than the Windows internal app options.

Atmos on Windows almost sound like if I had SBX at surround 5%, instead of something more realistic like 66% or 100%. The positional info is there, but the setting is like set waaaay too low, and there's no way to change it.


----------



## jincuteguy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yup. Such a great and inexpensive little device. Let's you use much better dacs than the one built in. PC only, of course.



Nice man. Do you know any other DAC out there that let you do 7.1 channels via Optical out like your Xonar U3? What about the Xonar U7?
These are rare now, can't find them to buy anywhere


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Nice man. Do you know any other DAC out there that let you do 7.1 channels via Optical out like your Xonar U3? What about the Xonar U7?
> These are rare now, can't find them to buy anywhere


The Creative G6 and X7. From personal experience. There are more but I'll leave that for the others to say.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> i tested out the Optical from the X3. And there was no VSS coming from the X3 optical.


You need to go into Speaker settings in Command and enable "Apply Headphone Virtualization To Optical Out"



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can't quite put my figure on it. I've heard Atmos and DTS Headphone X sound better from other methods like HeSuVi.


The game has to be Windows Sonic aware in order to really benefit from the plug-in.  Otherwise you need to force the game's audio to 5.1/7.1, which is what makes the SBX solution work so well, since it can configure Windows Audio to 7.1 for games that have no audio surround settings.


----------



## jincuteguy (Jul 20, 2020)

Chastity said:


> You need to go into Speaker settings in Command and enable "Apply Headphone Virtualization To Optical Out"



There is no "apply headphone Virtualization to Optical Out" in the Speaker settings in Command.
It only has "apply Headphone Virtualization to Line out" which is the analog line out for the 7.1, not optical

I think you mistaken with another device, the one I'm using is their new Super Xfi X3


----------



## Snikibiki

What do you guys think about focal elear for gaming wise?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Snikibiki said:


> What do you guys think about focal elear for gaming wise?



Nope, not spacious enough.
Take a K7XX with a powerful amp or a used HD800.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> There is no "apply headphone Virtualization to Optical Out" in the Speaker settings in Command.
> It only has "apply Headphone Virtualization to Line out" which is the analog line out for the 7.1, not optical
> 
> I think you mistaken with another device, the one I'm using is their new Super Xfi X3


If that's the case, then the G6 is an even better choice than the X3 for anyone thinking of using an external DAC.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I use a G6 connected via optical to a Bifrost 2. 
I also connect via USB to the Bifrost 2 for using things like Atmos for Headphones, DTS:X, THX, Boom 3D ...
Bifrost connects to a Jotunheim, I can drive any headphone I want with that thing.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> I use a G6 connected via optical to a Bifrost 2.
> I also connect via USB to the Bifrost 2 for using things like Atmos for Headphones, DTS:X, THX, Boom 3D ...
> Bifrost connects to a Jotunheim, I can drive any headphone I want with that thing.



Wait you can connect the G6 to your Bifrost 2 via USB?  does the USB provides all the VSS from the G6? damn if that's the case, then the G6 is the best VSS device for PC gaming out there. Also the Optical out from the G6 carry the SBX VSS?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Nope, G6 is connected with optical to the Bifrost 2. That enables sending SBX VSS through the Bifrost.
The computer is also connected straight to the Bifrost 2 via USB. That enables sending most kinds of software VSS through the Bifrost, like the afore mentioned ones.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> Nope, not spacious enough.
> Take a K7XX with a powerful amp or a used HD800.



What about Hifiman Arya? is it enough compare to HD800S for gaming?


----------



## AppleheadMay

I never heard the Arya. Maybe someone else here has.
Pretty sure it won't be as wide as the HD800 though, nothing is.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> Nope, G6 is connected with optical to the Bifrost 2. That enables sending SBX VSS through the Bifrost.
> The computer is also connected straight to the Bifrost 2 via USB. That enables sending most kinds of software VSS through the Bifrost, like the afore mentioned ones.



Well Im trying out the Audio Reapter KS and Voicemeter to send the Super Xfi from my X3 to my Topping DX7 Pro DAC.  I didnt know that's a thing.  Now I don't need to connect my X3 to the DX7 Pro via optical anymore.



AppleheadMay said:


> I never heard the Arya. Maybe someone else here has.
> Pretty sure it won't be as wide as the HD800 though, nothing is.



Yea I know it won't be as wide as the HD800S, but if it's close, then I would pick the Arya over the HD800S anyday.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Doesn't need to be close, as long as it has a nice soundstage you'll be fine IMO.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> Nope, G6 is connected with optical to the Bifrost 2. That enables sending SBX VSS through the Bifrost.
> The computer is also connected straight to the Bifrost 2 via USB. That enables sending most kinds of software VSS through the Bifrost, like the afore mentioned ones.



Hey so you have a G6.  can I ask you 1 thing. Can you check to see if you can set the speakers to 7.1 Configuration for the Optical Out of the G6 in the Sound Playback in the Sound Control? Can you take a screenshot? Cause my X3 for the Optical Out, the speaker configuration is only Stereo, there's no 5.1 or 7.1


----------



## AppleheadMay




----------



## jincuteguy (Jul 21, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


>




I mean in the Sound Control Panel (not the Creative software) like this
but for the SPDIF Out of your G6 in the Playback tab


----------



## Fegefeuer

The whole HEK line including the Arya is absolutely made for gaming or the requirements of this thread. If you can get the Arya for a good price go for it.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> The whole HEK line including the Arya is absolutely made for gaming or the requirements of this thread. If you can get the Arya for a good price go for it.



Isn't the Arya one of the wider sounding Hifiman cans, except for the expensive Susvara of course?
Have you heard both the Arya and LCD-GX by any chance?



jincuteguy said:


> I mean in the Sound Control Panel (not the Creative software) like this
> but for the SPDIF Out of your G6 in the Playback tab



With the SBX G6 I don't see SPDIF out in the windows sound control panel, did you rename it that way yourself?
Ehen I configure my SBX G6 in the windows sound control panel I do indeed have options for stereo, 5.1 and 7.1.
The headphone VSS via optical out is configured in the SBC Control app in my screenshots.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> With the SBX G6 I don't see SPDIF out in the windows sound control panel, did you rename it that way yourself?
> Ehen I configure my SBX G6 in the windows sound control panel I do indeed have options for stereo, 5.1 and 7.1.
> The headphone VSS via optical out is configured in the SBC Control app in my screenshots.



No, I didn't rename anything.  Did you disabled / disconnected the SPDIF out? that's weird that you didn't see it in the Sound Control Panel.  I see it for my X3, but it won't let me configure the speakers, so  it's always at Stereo.  Maybe you need to connect to the SPDIF output of your G6 in order to see it?



Fegefeuer said:


> The whole HEK line including the Arya is absolutely made for gaming or the requirements of this thread. If you can get the Arya for a good price go for it.



What is HEK line? I have the Arya.


----------



## AppleheadMay

jincuteguy said:


> No, I didn't rename anything.  Did you disabled / disconnected the SPDIF out? that's weird that you didn't see it in the Sound Control Panel.  I see it for my X3, but it won't let me configure the speakers, so  it's always at Stereo.  Maybe you need to connect to the SPDIF output of your G6 in order to see it?



No, it's not disabled else I would see it as well.
And it's always connected, just tested it and my optical out is working fine.

Do others with the G6 see two output devices in control panel?


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, only one and I'm using optical to BF2 as usual. 

LCD-GX vs. Arya. Arya any day. Bigger, more open sound, better positioning, airier.


----------



## jincuteguy

AppleheadMay said:


> No, it's not disabled else I would see it as well.
> And it's always connected, just tested it and my optical out is working fine.
> 
> Do others with the G6 see two output devices in control panel?



Yea, if any others have the G6 can chime in would help a lot.



Fegefeuer said:


> No, only one and I'm using optical to BF2 as usual.
> 
> LCD-GX vs. Arya. Arya any day. Bigger, more open sound, better positioning, airier.



Nice, so I guess I bought the right headphones for gaming (well besides music). I was gonna get the HD800S but after seeing reviews of the Arya, i got it instead.

I"m just waiting for my SMSL SP200 Amp to arrive this Thursday to complete my setup for gaming.  Right now I'm just using the Arya with my Topping DX7 Pro DAC.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> No, only one and I'm using optical to BF2 as usual.
> 
> LCD-GX vs. Arya. Arya any day. Bigger, more open sound, better positioning, airier.



Thanks and thanks! 

I must look into the Hifiman headphones someday. When I have a bit of a holiday I'll go test Abyss, Audeze and HiFiman in a shop I found.
It's a bit of a ride though, 250km far.

And yes, only one device it seems. (https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...und-application-can-hear-what-i-hear.3473530/)
Same here, optical connected to BF2 and working fine with VSS.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> No, only one and I'm using optical to BF2 as usual.
> 
> LCD-GX vs. Arya. Arya any day. Bigger, more open sound, better positioning, airier.



By the way Fegefeuer, did you know there was a new firmware update to v2.0? 
The app didn't detect it but I found it on the Creative site this week.
https://support.creative.com/Produc...=prodfaq:PRODFAQ_23239,VARSET=CategoryID:1122


----------



## Fegefeuer

yeah, heard about it but everything runs good now so I won't be updating until something important comes up.

btw, OpenAL installations are really wrong on the current drivers. Everything is missing and not properly installed. I installed the files manually and took the dsound.dll from the latest AE-9/AE-5 driver releases. 

Now that it works I made sure Thief1-3 are running again with latest mods.


----------



## jincuteguy

So do you guys think I should get a Realiser A8 for around $1200? I just don't know how well is it better compare to other VSS softwares out there like GSX, SBX, SXFi, dolby headphones, etc.... I mean if it's a lot better then it's worth it, but if it's better but just a little better, then prob not worth it.  Maybe anyone that has an A16 can chime in.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 23, 2020)

I personally don't think it's worth it, especially now that the new consoles are close to release and will have their own sound engines.

Buying any virtual surround device atm is unadvisable, IMHO, unless of course you're on PC mainly. And then, you can just spend a little on something like the Xonar U3 to send data to your own audiophile dac/amp.


And yes, I'd really want the Arya. I mean, if the Ananda is any indication, the Arya would be where my money on a $1k headphone would go. The Ananda was spectacular. I can only assume the Arya would be even better.


----------



## mindbomb

I just updated to windows 10 version 2004. It seems to have fixed a lot of spatial sound issues.


----------



## jincuteguy

So I bought the Wave NX for $10 and tried it outt.  And to my ears, it's better than all of the effects from HesuVi and SBX, especially for the Rear cues. I just need to retest it and compare with Super Xfi from my X3.  But I think the Wave NX is still better. No wonder Audeze used it for their Mobius headphones.  I just haven't tried the BOOM 3D one.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> So I bought the Wave NX for $10 and tried it outt.  And to my ears, it's better than all of the effects from HesuVi and SBX, especially for the Rear cues. I just need to retest it and compare with Super Xfi from my X3.  But I think the Wave NX is still better. No wonder Audeze used it for their Mobius headphones.  I just haven't tried the BOOM 3D one.


Link?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like Boom3D at all.

Waves NX is very good. Though I don't like it more than the others. DH, SBX, SXFI, and GSX all do it better IMHO.

It's good though.


----------



## Chastity (Jul 24, 2020)

I tried the Waves NX app  (found it), and it's a Room Spatializer, meaning it will have Reverb effects to do a room sim.  While this may be nice for gaming, it butchers my 5.1 Music tracks.  Sonic Studio III just does HRTF Mixing, with no reverb applied, and SBX can be dialed down to 9% for similar effect.

EDIT:  After looking at the other NX options, I think the Virtual Room Mixer would be a more ideal solution for me, as it seems you can control the reverb amounts and such.


----------



## jincuteguy (Jul 24, 2020)

So I got my SMSL SP200 Amp today.  I hooked it up to my Topping DX7 Pro DAC via RCA cables.  Everything sounds fine except when I fired up a game to play.  Then I hear this humming noise through my Arya headphones.  It only happens when I play a game so I think it's because the video card is running a high clock speed and draws more power  through the system.  But I don't know why there is  this humming noise and how do I fix it.  Does anyone have this problem?  I looked it up and ppl said get a USB DAC . I mean I am using a USB DAC.  And I can only hear the humming noise when I fire up a game to play like Diablo 3.

If I hooked up my Arya to the Topping DX7 Pro DAC without the SP200 amp, then i don't hear it when I fire up a game.  So you guys think it's the SP200 amp RCA?


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> So I got my SMSL SP200 Amp today.  I hooked it up to my Topping DX7 Pro DAC via RCA cables.  Everything sounds fine except when I fired up a game to play.  Then I hear this humming noise through my Arya headphones.  It only happens when I play a game so I think it's because the video card is running a high clock speed and draws more power  through the system.  But I don't know why there is  this humming noise and how do I fix it.  Does anyone have this problem?  I looked it up and ppl said get a USB DAC . I mean I am using a USB DAC.  And I can only hear the humming noise when I fire up a game to play like Diablo 3.
> 
> If I hooked up my Arya to the Topping DX7 Pro DAC without the SP200 amp, then i don't hear it when I fire up a game.  So you guys think it's the SP200 amp RCA?


You are picking up electrical noise from the USB power from the PC to your DAC, and the SP200 is amplifying it.  The DX7 is doing a better job of filtering it.

Solution:  a USB power isolator, like the iFi iDefender3.0.   Or connect the DAC to a self-powered USB hub. (This will most likely just lower the noise)


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> You are picking up electrical noise from the USB power from the PC to your DAC, and the SP200 is amplifying it.  The DX7 is doing a better job of filtering it.
> 
> Solution:  a USB power isolator, like the iFi iDefender3.0.   Or connect the DAC to a self-powered USB hub. (This will most likely just lower the noise)



If I connect to a self powered USB hub, then don't I still need to connect it to my PC? Don't you have this issue too ? My motherboard is the Asus Rampage Extreme VI Encore


----------



## mindbomb

One of the first things I would try to solve noise problems is to use toslink instead of usb.


----------



## jincuteguy

Is there a better  one than the iFi iDefender3.0? I can't find  iFi iDefender3.0 that are for sale.  So i'm assumed anyone  that play PC game  have this  issue as well, so it's not just me?



mindbomb said:


> One of the first things I would try to solve noise problems is to use toslink instead of usb.



You mean connect my DAC to my onboard soundcard via Toslink (optical)?


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> Is there a better  one than the iFi iDefender3.0? I can't find  iFi iDefender3.0 that are for sale.  So i'm assumed anyone  that play PC game  have this  issue as well, so it's not just me?


https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender3-0/

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/ifi-idefender-3-0/

seems to sold out in a lot of places.  There's an updated model that uses USB-C port, but that wouldn't help me, or you for that matter.  Kitsune Audio has them in stock.  See link above.



jincuteguy said:


> You mean connect my DAC to my onboard soundcard via Toslink (optical)?


Yes you would essentially be using the onboard audio's SPDIF-Out to your external DAC.


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender3-0/
> 
> https://kitsunehifi.com/product/ifi-idefender-3-0/
> 
> ...



Why wouldn't the USB-C model wouldn't help me? My board has usb-c port


----------



## Rozzko

Hope that PS5 will have stock dac+amp with power to amp good quality headphones. Now PS4 need extra device to AMP headphones. Jack3,5 from DualShock is weak and can’t amp headphones. Console also don’t have outputs to plug in. So I am waiting to PS5 to see what it have got. I hope that it will have base good amp


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 25, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> Hope that PS5 will have stock dac+amp with power to amp good quality headphones. Now PS4 need extra device to AMP headphones. Jack3,5 from DualShock is weak and can’t amp headphones. Console also don’t have outputs to plug in. So I am waiting to PS5 to see what it have got. I hope that it will have base good amp


There are always ways to get good audio out of anything. There are HDMI audio extractors that you can connect dac/amps to, or even just the optical out to a dac with an a optical in. Though HDMI 2.1 audio extractors that allow the upcoming 4K/120hz or 8k/60 aren't out yet.

There's nothing you can't prepare for in terms of audio.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Simple.
> 
> For pc, I use the Asus Xonar U3 to feed Dolby Headphone to my Modi 3 via optical. The microphone feed is done by the Schiit Hel, and my Amp is the Magni 3.
> 
> ...


Wow, you tried so much headphones, and finally playing games on KSC75X??? Never thinking that that headphones good to games and can beat another top headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> Wow, you tried so much headphones, and finally playing games on KSC75X??? Never thinking that that headphones good to games and can beat another top headphones.



You don't need a $1000 pair of headphones to do well. As long as you can hear the vast majority of sounds and are able to locate sounds around you, you can get by with anything.

Don't ever believe you need to get any pair of headphones just to do well or enjoy audio.
I love my KSC75X. Between that, or the KSC35, or PortaPro... there's NOTHING else I would take to replace these. As long as I have at least one of those, I'm happy.

Of course, better, more expensive headphones may be more ENJOYABLE, but they are not a requirement.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> There are always ways to get good audio out of anything. There are HDMI audio extractors that you can connect dac/amps to, or even just the optical out to a dac with an a optical in. Though HDMI 2.1 audio extractors that allow the upcoming 4K/120hz or 8k/60 aren't out yet.
> 
> There's nothing you can't prepare for in terms of audio.


I understand, but I talking that maybe I will don’t need to use creative g6 because PS5 will give me VSS and much power to AMP headphones. Maybe dualsense will have good AMP inside. What do you think? Or you are think that minimum extra desc AMP I will need to have to connect it by optical to PS5?

p.s. why you are talking about audio by HDMI? PS4 have 1hdmi and it’s always goes to TV. It’s translate picture and audio from PS4 to TV. And if I want to plug jack 3,5 I only have 2 ways.
1 - connect jack to TV jack(question of quality tv dac/amp?!) 
2- connect it to dualshock (bad quality of sound)


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone knows any good alternative pads to the Dekoni velour / suede pads for the Arya? I checked Dekoni website and they dont' make any suede pads for the Arya.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> I understand, but I talking that maybe I will don’t need to use creative g6 because PS5 will give me VSS and much power to AMP headphones. Maybe dualsense will have good AMP inside. What do you think? Or you are think that minimum extra desc AMP I will need to have to connect it by optical to PS5?
> 
> p.s. why you are talking about audio by HDMI? PS4 have 1hdmi and it’s always goes to TV. It’s translate picture and audio from PS4 to TV. And if I want to plug jack 3,5 I only have 2 ways.
> 1 - connect jack to TV jack(question of quality tv dac/amp?!)
> 2- connect it to dualshock (bad quality of sound)


I mean, if you're getting a serious pair of headphones, it's always worth investing in a decent dac/amp. You may not need the virtual surround thgat something like the G6 provides, but it's still a fairly good dac/amp for the price. You can still turn off the surround on the G6 and use the built in surround on the Xbox or PS5.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> I understand, but I talking that maybe I will don’t need to use creative g6 because PS5 will give me VSS and much power to AMP headphones. Maybe dualsense will have good AMP inside. What do you think? Or you are think that minimum extra desc AMP I will need to have to connect it by optical to PS5?
> 
> p.s. why you are talking about audio by HDMI? PS4 have 1hdmi and it’s always goes to TV. It’s translate picture and audio from PS4 to TV. And if I want to plug jack 3,5 I only have 2 ways.
> 1 - connect jack to TV jack(question of quality tv dac/amp?!)
> 2- connect it to dualshock (bad quality of sound)


Because an HDMI extractor will still send HDMI to the TV. THat and there are TVs with ARC, where you can just connect an HDMI extractor, receiver or switcher that has audio outputs to it, and you can plug your amp/dacs to that. Just because there is only an HDMI on a console does not mean you're out of luck in connecting audio devices to it.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You don't need a $1000 pair of headphones to do well. As long as you can hear the vast majority of sounds and are able to locate sounds around you, you can get by with anything.
> 
> Don't ever believe you need to get any pair of headphones just to do well or enjoy audio.
> I love my KSC75X. Between that, or the KSC35, or PortaPro... there's NOTHING else I would take to replace these. As long as I have at least one of those, I'm happy.
> ...


Thanks it’s interesting. I am not pro in audio gear and always think that if I want top quality sound in games I need to buy 1000$ headphones + good dac/amp. I understand that having fun and enjoy anyone can take from 50$ headphones, but it’s personally. I want balance from price/quality that make me really good quality but not cost 5000$. And when I read that you ,who tried 1000$ headphones playing games on KSC75X, it’s break my reality)) maybe I need to go through these headphones to finally understand that headphone like KSC75X it’s my final choice. But now for me it’s hard to understand))


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Because an HDMI extractor will still send HDMI to the TV. THat and there are TVs with ARC, where you can just connect an HDMI extractor, receiver or switcher that has audio outputs to it, and you can plug your amp/dacs to that. Just because there is only an HDMI on a console does not mean you're out of luck in connecting audio devices to it.


Thanks. But not much audio devices (dac/amp) have hdmi, always it’s optical connection


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 25, 2020)

Well, you can deinite do better than the KSC75X. It's not perfect. It's just really good for the price, plus the personal comfort, and weight are big for me.

It's not like I would tell everytone to get rid of everything for the KSC75X. Thatr's a personal choice. When I play Warzone, I don't use the KSC75X, I use the 6XX for instance. And perhaps I should be using the LCD-1 instead of the 6XX, but I'm too lazy to take it back out of the box. It's more revealing though and probably better suited for competitive games compared to the 6XX.

My priorities are comfort FIRST. Sound second. You may not have the same. This is why KSC75X is so high for me. Comfort for me is better than any fullsize headphone.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, you can deinite do better than the KSC75X. It's not perfect. It's just really good for the price, plus the personal comfort, and weight are big for me.
> 
> It's not like I would tell everytone to get rid of everything for the KSC75X. Thatr's a personal choice. When I play Warzone, I don't use the KSC75X, I use the 6XX for instance. And perhaps I should be using the LCD-1 instead of the 6XX, but I'm too lazy to take it back out of the box. It's more revealing though and probably better suited for competitive games compared to the 6XX.
> 
> My priorities are comfort FIRST. Sound second. You may not have the same. This is why KSC75X is so high for me. Comfort for me is better than any fullsize headphone.


Does mixamp when you playing console have amp to drive 6xx?

Gamers, can anyone tell 3 best closed back headphones? Under 1000$. Better about 500$. Unfortunately I can’t take open back because my wife. So all in all only closed back for gaming

And another question.
What Dac+Amp or AMP will be better in sound quality (not virtual surround sound,just standard 2.0) vs creative g6? In +- same price. Because I need amp headphone when playing ps4. Because PS4 amp(dac+amp) need to have optical in. What will be better than G6?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Does mixamp when you playing console have amp to drive 6xx?
> Gamers, can anyone tell 3 best closed back headphones? Under 1000$. Better about 500$. Unfortunately I can’t take open back because my wife. So all in all only closed back for gaming
> And another question.
> What Dac+Amp or AMP will be better in sound quality (not virtual surround sound,just standard 2.0) vs creative g6? In +- same price. Because I need amp headphone when playing ps4. Because PS4 amp(dac+amp) need to have optical in. What will be better than G6?


In general, I would say no (for the Mix-amp), or at least it would be a low volume.
Also might depend on which version of the Mix-amp is being used.
For consoles, I would go for the Creative Labs G6.


----------



## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> In general, I would say no (for the Mix-amp), or at least it would be a low volume.
> Also might depend on which version of the Mix-amp is being used.
> For consoles, I would go for the Creative Labs G6.


Thanks, and if I want only amp with optical connection without any virtual surround sound, to amp not very heavy headphones what alternatives of G6?


----------



## Radio81

If you don't want surround sound on PS4 get the Creative G5.  It doesn't need optical and is USB powered from the PS4.  If your main use is for PS4 stereo audio, that would be my choice.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Thanks, and if I want only amp with optical connection without any virtual surround sound, to amp not very heavy headphones what alternatives of G6?


Not really seeing any DAC/amp better, for a given price, for use with a gaming console, then the Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6.
Just set the G6 to stereo (2.0) audio.


----------



## Rozzko

Is someone playing games with IEMs? Or full headphones always be better against IEMs in terms of gaming? 
for example: Andromeda vs Fostex th-x00


----------



## Radio81

Rozzko said:


> Is someone playing games with IEMs? Or full headphones always be better against IEMs in terms of gaming?
> for example: Andromeda vs Fostex th-x00



Good question.  I sometimes game with IEMs.  I don't have anything hi-fi, but the Fiio EX1ii I own have a very open sound for an IEM.  The right ear tips are key though.  Most IEMs need a great seal to provide any bass.  For me, this usually requires foam ear tips from Comply.  The Comply tips work great, but they can tend to seal too well, and block out almost all external noise.  Unlike a full-size headphone, for me this tends to be fatiguing after a couple of hours.  I like the Fiio because I can get a decent seal with the silicone tips to get enough bass, and it doesn't feel like I have earplugs in.  I do still prefer using open back cans for any sort of FPS gaming.

The problem with earbuds is there is not really a good mic solution to go with them.  For this, I found a cheap frame for a head worn mic on amazon, and zip tied my modmic wireless to it.  The magnet on the modmic also keeps the rear secured to the head worn frame.  It works and it's easy to undo when I want to attach the mic to my full size cans.  I've attached a pic of the modmic mounted to the head worn frame.  The mount is actually not bothersome to wear.


----------



## mindbomb

Rozzko said:


> Is someone playing games with IEMs? Or full headphones always be better against IEMs in terms of gaming?
> for example: Andromeda vs Fostex th-x00


This is something I've been wondering recently as well. One of the advantages of iem is the passive noise reduction, which means you should be able to hear details better assuming you aren't in a perfectly quiet environment. And the audio processing seems like what is responsible for a lot of spatial information anyway, rather than the headphone choice. So perhaps it is overlooked as a good gaming option.


----------



## Chastity

Considering IEMs bypass the outer ear, spatial cues may not work properly.


----------



## Rozzko

Chastity said:


> Considering IEMs bypass the outer ear, spatial cues may not work properly.


May you write more about it? With full headphones it’s more natural to hear sound? 
I understand that IEMs firstly to outdoors and second is isolation.And some IEMsmale so good sound, but it’s better to use full headphones for gaming?


----------



## Chastity

Rozzko said:


> May you write more about it? With full headphones it’s more natural to hear sound?
> I understand that IEMs firstly to outdoors and second is isolation.And some IEMsmale so good sound, but it’s better to use full headphones for gaming?


The outer ear is shaped the way it is so that you can have directionality from the way sounds are gathered and reflected into the ear canal.  HRTF attempts to simulate this.  So how well the IEM can project these cues can be an issue.  I find it a lot easier to find directionality with headphones than IEMs.


----------



## Radio81

Chastity said:


> The outer ear is shaped the way it is so that you can have directionality from the way sounds are gathered and reflected into the ear canal.  HRTF attempts to simulate this.  So how well the IEM can project these cues can be an issue.  I find it a lot easier to find directionality with headphones than IEMs.



What about a planar IEM like the Monolith M350 or the Audeze iSINE?  Would those offer any benefit to directional and spatial awareness over a traditional IEM?


----------



## halcyon

Chastity said:


> Considering IEMs bypass the outer ear, spatial cues may not work properly.




Spatial cues from your pinnae require the sounds source to be placed naturally around the listener in space (consider multi-channel loudspeakers). With headphones, when the transducer is right on the ear, you will get very little positional cues from your outer ears (transducer in fixed unnatural location, not where the sound is coming from originally).


----------



## Rozzko

halcyon said:


> Spatial cues from your pinnae require the sounds source to be placed naturally around the listener in space (consider multi-channel loudspeakers). With headphones, when the transducer is right on the ear, you will get very little positional cues from your outer ears (transducer in fixed unnatural location, not where the sound is coming from originally).


So full headphones in sound quality have benefits against IEMs or not?


----------



## mindbomb

Chastity said:


> Considering IEMs bypass the outer ear, spatial cues may not work properly.



That's desirable imo. The spatial cues you get from the headphone interacting with the outer ear help you locate the position of the headphone driver, not sounds in the game. I think one of the advantages of open headphones is the lack of resonances in the ear cup, which makes the sounds more of a blank canvas for hrtf to work.


----------



## halcyon

Rozzko said:


> So full headphones in sound quality have benefits against IEMs or not?





Haven't really seen papers on this, but if we are only talking about positional cues, when I think that full headphones have very little improvement/advantage over IEMs in this regard. In other regards, yes they have (bass impact, etc).


----------



## illram

Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a "generic" HRTF altered audio signal (i.e. what we get with basically all these VSS products) already simulate the audio effect produced by your outer ear, thus it does not necessarily matter if you are using an IEM? I.e., the HRTF magic your brain relies on from soundwaves bouncing around your ears, body and face is already "baked in." Basically all that would matter is the IEM's accuracy, imaging and soundstage? 

IEM's would matter, however, for anything relying on an an in ear mic recording of your headphone's sound signature, e.g. the Realiser, since you cannot do that with an IEM. (But, you could still just do the speaker calibration part...) So the best possible (i.e. most individually calbrated) way to do VSS would not work with an IEM, but everything else would. That's my understanding at least, someone tell me if I am wrong.


----------



## Rozzko

halcyon said:


> Haven't really seen papers on this, but if we are only talking about positional cues, when I think that full headphones have very little improvement/advantage over IEMs in this regard. In other regards, yes they have (bass impact, etc).


But many IEMs can do very nice bass.


----------



## Snikibiki

Does focal elear's have narrow soundstage? If yes, then how much compared to HD6x0?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 29, 2020)

There's two factors I wanna discuss. Some of it pertains to IEMs.

One, the soundstage has almost always been considerably smaller that full sized headphones even with VSS. This works against positional accuracy for me, when everything is packed in together around my head.

Two, closed headphones are NOT detrimental to the VSS experience. Closed headphones with small soundstage is. There is correlation, but not outright causation.


The correlation people make is that closed tends to equal bad soundstage in general, which leads to my first point, about most IEMs having a small soundstage which is not conducive to a good VSS experience.

However,  if you have a headphone that is closed AND has a large soundstage (i.e
DT770s, MMX300, Ether C), VSS in these can be BETTER than on open headphones with large soundstages. As someone stated, the blank canvas a closed headphone provides can better allow for focus of positional placement of sounds).

All in all, worry less about whether a headphone is open or closed, and worry more about how well a headphone portrays their soundstage.

Off the top of my head, my highest rated headphone ever on here is the Ether C, and that thing is HELLA closed. But man does it sound open as hell. The Alpha Dog of old is also something that sounds so large and open, I couldn't believe my ears.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> There's two factors I wanna discuss. Some of it pertains to IEMs.
> 
> One, the soundstage has almost always been considerably smaller that full sized headphones even with VSS. This works against positional accuracy for me, when everything is packed in together around my head.
> 
> ...


Did you hear iem Andromeda? It’s IEMs but with very large soundstage for IEMs, so may be it’s why so much people love this IEMs. So if it’s have big soundstage does it necessary to compare with closed full size headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't like IEMs in general, so no.

I'm sure there are IEMs with large soundstages as well as open IEMs. I'll stick to full sized, however.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I haven't found any IEM that draws images and objects as huge as for instance all these HEK cans or similar to the HD 800. Neither do they project such a huge and wide stage. 

My favorites are the HD 800 and the HEK SE.


----------



## halcyon (Jul 30, 2020)

illram said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but wouldn't a "generic" HRTF altered audio signal (i.e. what we get with basically all these VSS products) already simulate the audio effect produced by your outer ear, thus it does not necessarily matter if you are using an IEM? I.e., the HRTF magic your brain relies on from soundwaves bouncing around your ears, body and face is already "baked in." Basically all that would matter is the IEM's accuracy, imaging and soundstage?
> 
> IEM's would matter, however, for anything relying on an an in ear mic recording of your headphone's sound signature, e.g. the Realiser, since you cannot do that with an IEM. (But, you could still just do the speaker calibration part...) So the best possible (i.e. most individually calbrated) way to do VSS would not work with an IEM, but everything else would. That's my understanding at least, someone tell me if I am wrong.


Yes. Further, for the HRTF REALLY to work PROPERLY for 3D positional audio, the HRTF (or your head/torso/pinnae in real life) need to be fed multi-directional signal.

No amount of stereo only signal from fixed position stereo headphone transducers will give you ADDITIONAL positional cues.

Only if you are in real life, with free ears and listening to natural sounds coming from all directions, does your natural head/torso/pinnae masking/reflections (=your own HRTF) really give additional positional cues as to the direction from where the sounds is coming from. This and moving your head even slightly.

If you record this natural multi-stream, true-multidirectional signal with a stereo microphone, then the directional signals are GONE forever.

No amount of playing back that signal using IEMs, closed headphones, open headphones, big headpones, small headphones, will regenerate or recreate those positional signals. they are gone.

Yes, you can buy a headset with a huge reverbating close headphone cup with LOTS of phase errors and it will create a sense of "bigger soundstage" and "wider space" and "space that envelops around your head", but it won't be one bit directionally more accurate as to the original direction of the sound signals. In fact, while euphonic to some, it will be WORSE for directional accuracy.

This is basic acoustics/psychoacoustics.

The second way, which the BEST of 3D headphone virtualization algos try to recreate is:

1) you have true multi-channel discrete multi-directional signal (non-downmixed 7.1 discrete multichannel audio is an example). This can be artificially computed signal (like a gaming / VR environment) or a natural multichannel recording done from a natural soundspace (say, a recording in a concert hall).

2) Using the above (1) multichannel signal, the 3D virtualization algo uses a generic or for your head/ears tailored HRTF -function to map these 7.1 discrete audio channels into stereo headphone playback while trying to retain (mimick) as much of the original positional cues as possible. Some positional and spatial cues will be lost, but the good algos can do a fairly competent job.

However, if you already feed that HRTF algo a stereo (non-multichannel) signal, it can NOT recreate positional or spatial cues using the HRTF algos. It needs a real multichannel signal.

With this in mind, it should be obvious, that when one feeds ones ears stereo signals from any pair of stereo headphones, the difference between IEMs and full-size headphones as to accurate and natural positional & spatial cues should not be that great. Esp, if that stereo signal being listened to is already created by an artificial 3D virtualization HRTF algo.

Adding your ear/pinnae reflections to that signal doesn't recover any additional sound cues from the stereo signal.

There is a small caveat here.

If you have say headspeakers like AKG K1000 and you have a ears-wide-apart- stereo microphone (non-HRTF mixed) recorded audio signal, then that combination (very rare!) can recreate a bit of the HRTF signals using the AKG K1000 headspeakers compared to IEMs. But that is a very rare and special case.

Another caveat would be true multi-transducer headphone, where the transducers are spaced far enough apart from each other and are fed a true non-down-mixed  multichannel audio signal. AFAIK, such headphones do NOT exist (in commercial production). The faux-multi-tranducer gaming headphones don't have the transducers spaced enough apart and the sound coming from separate enough directions. That last part is IMHO, haven't seen papers on it.



Rozzko said:


> But many IEMs can do very nice bass.




Yes, but NONE can approximate the actual visceral physical force of a 70mm drive moving air against your drum at 2Watts of amplification.

The only thing that will happen if you try that with IEMs is earbleed and blown out eardrums, not more physical feel of the bass.

Yes, there are great IEMs, I'm not saying that. Yes IEMs have their pros, and so do full-sized headphones with large transducers.

But having better "pinnae based HRTF related positional audio" is not one of those advantages (for either headphone type).


----------



## TTU03 (Jul 30, 2020)

I have ordered a Fii0 k5 pro and Fidelio x2hr. I was looking for a new gaming headset but realized I don’t need a mic. I think this setup would have to be better then most any big box store gaming headset i was looking at. K5 pro might not be needed but I figured it would get the most out of the headphones and if I do ever move up in headphones it would be needed. I have purchased the dobly app in the windows store and hope the Atmos for headphones plays nice with this set up. PC use only and no added sound card. A sound card maybe the next thing to add for better surround virtualization.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Jul 30, 2020)

*Sound Blaster Command* BETA for the *BlasterX G6* has been released:

https://creativetechltd-my.sharepoi...JJrOX5Lj49sSIBGZwsRp8Ae52FGfdxZ931yQ?e=bO8q0l

"Before running the application, please type file name with parameter */External*
eg. *USBCMDMasterInstaller_3.4.84.00 /External* "


----------



## Snikibiki

I heard that hd800 and hd800s have a bit different soundstage, which one will better suits for competetive player?


----------



## Fegefeuer

HD800 and Koss Porta Pro


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone experienced with Headphone website? the one that sells expensive ones like Arya, HD800S, etc but they have a 365 days return policy.  Is it legit?


----------



## Chastity

You mean headphones.com?  Yeah it's legit.  It's the company that formed after Tyll retired from Headroom, iirc.


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> You mean headphones.com?  Yeah it's legit.  It's the company that formed after Tyll retired from Headroom, iirc.


 Yea, that's cool


----------



## jincuteguy

So is it true that Tube Amp will give a bigger soundstage?  And anyone in here using a tube amp for gaming? I might get a tube amp and try it out.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> So is it true that Tube Amp will give a bigger soundstage?  And anyone in here using a tube amp for gaming? I might get a tube amp and try it out.


For me, my tube buffer improves stage depth, especially in front, not so much for the sides.  It also enhanced sound separation, and some tubes do it better than others.  So my DT-1990 image in the soundfield better.  (Rear cues especially)


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> For me, my tube buffer improves stage depth, especially in front, not so much for the sides.  It also enhanced sound separation, and some tubes do it better than others.  So my DT-1990 image in the soundfield better.  (Rear cues especially)



So you're saying if I get a good tube amp, it will improve the Rear cues in gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 3, 2020)

I definitely would not ever consider any amp for additional benefits of surround cues. You're dealing single percentages to fractions of percentages there. The bulk of soundstage performance will be the headphones and the virtual surround being used, especially if the virtual surround has room size adjustments. Like SBX having 0-100% surround size. Obviously 100% will give you the most depth, etc. If you're having problems with rear audio cues, a tube amp ain't the magic fix.


----------



## NA Blur

Have you reviewed the HyperX Cloud Alpha? I don't see it in the list and a lot of pro's I watch stream use it. I purchased a pair a while back and prefer it over any Razer or Turtle Beach I've owned.

Replaceable cable and pads, comfortable for hours, easy to control volume and get really loud as needed. It is also built exceptionally well. Customer services is great and will answer questions within a few days.

I would love to hear your thoughts on it.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey i am just curious has anyone tried out the gsx300 gaming soundcard and how does it compare to the x3 or g6 strictly for PC gaming 
https://www.eposaudio.com/en/ca/gaming/products/gsx-300-gaming-soundcard-1000201

thanks


----------



## halcyon

stavros.m said:


> Hey i am just curious has anyone tried out the gsx300 gaming soundcard and how does it compare to the x3 or g6 strictly for PC gaming
> https://www.eposaudio.com/en/ca/gaming/products/gsx-300-gaming-soundcard-1000201
> 
> thanks



GSX300 is basically a cut down GSX1000/GSX1200 (with the same algo, afaik).
People who have compared Creative X3/G6 to Sennheiser GSX-series could chime in.
I've only done a cursory comparison myself (and not against X3).


----------



## stavros.m

halcyon said:


> GSX300 is basically a cut down GSX1000/GSX1200 (with the same algo, afaik).
> People who have compared Creative X3/G6 to Sennheiser GSX-series could chime in.
> I've only done a cursory comparison myself (and not against X3).



thanks i am looking into an X3 also


----------



## tglodjo

armv said:


> After a lot of research and using Mad Lust Envy's excellent guide, I think I've reached my final two contenders for a "fun", wide, open-back headphone to be used primarily for console gaming for around $200.
> 
> Philips Fidelio X2HR or the Beyerdynamic TYGR 300 R
> 
> ...



I think you've narrowed it down to two great choices. Personally, I love my TYGRs. They just sound so clean and clear. I like the V signature too. I don't have too much experience with the X2HR though, so I can't really compare. From the short time I used them, I can say that I much prefer the TYGR build and comfort. They're definitely lighter than the X2HR and have a much smaller profile when worn. I played through The Last of Us 2 using the TYGRs and it was a great experience. I did the detachable cable mod so I can use them with my BoomPro. They'll probably remain my go-to gaming headphones for a while, though I'll still use my Vokyl Erupts for non-competitive play because they're pretty fun for my tastes.


----------



## stavros.m

Just a question for the people that use stacks, what do you use for spatial surround for example just in case my terms are wrong , dolby atmos for headphones, wavesnx etc....
or can i add something like the x3 to the stack. 

Sorry complete noob here

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Just a question for the people that use stacks, what do you use for spatial surround for example just in case my terms are wrong , dolby atmos for headphones, wavesnx etc....
> or can i add something like the x3 to the stack.
> 
> Sorry complete noob here
> ...


I assume your transformer/amp thingy has an RCA input, so any dac will do, and there are various dacs with virtual surround dsps, like the G6/X7, GSX1000 (though you'd have to connect fro the headphone out to the rca in on your Stax powering thing.)


----------



## tglodjo

stavros.m said:


> Just a question for the people that use stacks, what do you use for spatial surround for example just in case my terms are wrong , dolby atmos for headphones, wavesnx etc....
> or can i add something like the x3 to the stack.
> 
> Sorry complete noob here
> ...



I use a Sound BlasterX G6 and have really enjoyed it. I used in it direct mode (no dsp) most of the time, but I switch on the simulated 7.1 for some single-player content. Haven't used it for any movies yet though. I've used the G6 as an amp, DAC, and with a stack for surround sound processing. Personally, I wouldn't buy it *just* for that since I don't use the features much, but YMMV.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I assume your transformer/amp thingy has an RCA input, so any dac will do, and there are various dacs with virtual surround dsps, like the G6/X7, GSX1000 (though you'd have to connect fro the headphone out to the rca in on your Stax powering thing.)


Hey thanks i do not have any stack or anythinig yet i am just looking at the best route to go. I was debating on getting an x3 to start and then going from there, but then i was reading getting a seperate amp and dac and use dolby atmos or something similar might be the way to go 

thanks


----------



## stavros.m

tglodjo said:


> I use a Sound BlasterX G6 and have really enjoyed it. I used in it direct mode (no dsp) most of the time, but I switch on the simulated 7.1 for some single-player content. Haven't used it for any movies yet though. I've used the G6 as an amp, DAC, and with a stack for surround sound processing. Personally, I wouldn't buy it *just* for that since I don't use the features much, but YMMV.


Would you recommend it over something like the x3 or gsx


----------



## tglodjo

stavros.m said:


> Would you recommend it over something like the x3 or gsx


I can't compare directly because I don't have experience with the others. I bought my G6 as a starter DAC/amp/virtualizer before I had a separate amp and dac, so that was definitely one of the reasons I chose what I did. The G6 has excellent DAC measurements on Audio Science Review, and its amp is plenty powerful (though not the cleanest with harder to drive headphones). I still play plenty of games on console, so for that reason alone the G6 is worth it for me. Though if I only played/listened on PC, I'd probably just go with the stack + Atmos for Headphones. I obviously can't know exactly what your preferences are, so take my impressions as just that. I don't know much about the GSX, but I can say that if you're just starting and really want one of these devices, the G6 is probably your best option to begin with and then add on to later. The X3 isn't nearly as powerful as an amp. As a dac/virtualizer, I don't know enough to compare. Hope this is helpful.


----------



## Chastity (Aug 5, 2020)

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks i do not have any stack or anythinig yet i am just looking at the best route to go. I was debating on getting an x3 to start and then going from there, but then i was reading getting a seperate amp and dac and use dolby atmos or something similar might be the way to go
> 
> thanks


I have all the options, except maybe a Realizer.  I started with a G6 for DAC/amp, and now it's relegated to used as a Virtualizer when gaming using it's toslink out.  I use Dolby Access / DTS:X for movie watching and for games that support them.  SBX is great for older games, especially ones that support EAX.  You can use Dolby Access / DTS:X for gaming, but the game needs to be Windows Sonic aware, unless you can force the game into 7.1 / Surround.  If the game has it's own Headphone Mode, try it first.

For 5.1 music tracks, i use foobar2000 + Sonic Studio III.  It's does a great job with the HRTF mix w/o destroying the music.



> Would you recommend it over something like the x3 or gsx



I don't think we got a consensus whether the X3 supports Virtual Surround mix over it's SPDIF-Out, like the G6 does.  Would be nice if it does since it supports 24/96 instead of just 24/48 like the G6.

You can also buy Creative's SBX MB3 software for $30 which will give you the SBX Surround for whatever DAC you go with.  I was thinking of buying it and retire the G6.


----------



## stavros.m (Aug 5, 2020)

Chastity said:


> I have all the options, except maybe a Realizer.  I started with a G6 for DAC/amp, and now it's relegated to used as a Virtualizer when gaming using it's toslink out.  I use Dolby Access / DTS:X for movie watching and for games that support them.  SBX is great for older games, especially ones that support EAX.  You can use Dolby Access / DTS:X for gaming, but the game needs to be Windows Sonic aware, unless you can force the game into 7.1 / Surround.  If the game has it's own Headphone Mode, try it first.
> 
> For 5.1 music tracks, i use foobar2000 + Sonic Studio III.  It's does a great job with the HRTF mix w/o destroying the music.
> 
> ...


thank you for all the help. I am looking for  Creative's SBX MB3  site right now is it similar to the G6 minus the hardware also has anyone used the THX Spatial Audio from Razar to compare


----------



## Snikibiki (Aug 5, 2020)

Is there something better to 2000$ than hd800s for pure competetive wise? BTW - I dont need closed cans, cus im playing from home. But they can be


----------



## stavros.m

One more question if i would buy the stack is there any preference between the 
JDS Atom Amp and JDS Atom Dac 
or 
Schiit Magni 3+ and Schiit Modi

thanks for all the help


----------



## tglodjo

stavros.m said:


> One more question if i would buy the stack is there any preference between the
> JDS Atom Amp and JDS Atom Dac
> or
> Schiit Magni 3+ and Schiit Modi
> ...



There shouldn’t be much of an audible difference at all as they are both neutral stacks with great measurements. I’ve used both and stuck with the Magni because I didn’t like the plastic build of the Atom. On my unit, the top cover flexed a bit when I’d hold it down to plug and unplug cables. But I am waiting on a Topping L30 now, so not sure how much longer I’ll be keeping my Magni Heresy.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll be posting the 6XX review as I get home, so I hope you guys like it. In about... 7 hours time. There was a mic cable planned for it, which I wrote into the review with images and sample, but unfortunately they had to cancel it. I'll have to edit those out since it's no longer a thing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 21, 2020)

So without further delay, here is my long withheld 6XX review (seriously, this thing was done many months ago, save for last minute edits. I know the 6XX has been around for years now, but the release of the review was supposed to coincide with something related to the 6XX and drop, but that didn't end up happening, hence the delay). Anywhoo, here it is. Hope y'all like it.



*Sennheiser HD6XX*


Where to buy: Drop.com (as of review date Aug 2020)

*Disclaimer: A special thanks to Drop for sending the 6XX out to me for review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it or at least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.*



*Intro*​
Buckle up, because I'm gonna talk history about the HD650. Specifically, MY history with the HD650 (and by extension, the HD6XX).

There's not much that needs to be said about the HD6XX. It's been around for years, as a Drop variant of the legendary HD650. It's the same headphone, mechanically with a different color scheme, and shorter cable. If you've heard a more recent pair of HD650s, then you know what to expect here. Not much that needs to be said, but I'll still say, because they deserve to be talked about at length. They are headphone with a rich HISTORY, even if they're not exactly ancient in terms of headphones.

To those of you who have been following me for at least a little while, you know I have already reviewed the HD650. The HD650 review was done just a few years short of a full decade ago. It was also at a time where I was still very much learning about all these different types of sound signatures, and finding my own voice when writing, as well as preferences in headphones. It was at a time where I mainly only cared about a v-shaped type sound, where I mainly wanted bass and treble clarity. Nowadays, I've leaned towards warmer, and more balanced type of sounds, but I still very much enjoy a v-shaped sound, among many other styles of headphone tunings. I love headphones. As long as they're not terrible, I'll probably have good things to say about their more benevolent traits.

My personal history with the HD650 was a special one. When I first started my journey into audiophilia, it was at a time when headphones were having a sort of explosion in public interest. This was at a time when Beats by Dre really got people interested in headphones. Say what you wanna say about Beats, but the headphone world wouldn't be where it is today without Beats.

This was a time when the Audio-Technica M50s were the go to starter headphone. Even people who had never heard them knew to recommend the M50. It was also a time when there was a 3-way race in mid-fi between the Beyerdynamic DT880, AKG K701/702, and of course, the venerable Sennheiser HD650. Three very different sound profiles that would cover all types of sonic preferences. A time when Audeze and Hifiman were just starting to truly gain a footing in the higher end market with the LCD-2 and HE-6. It was a special time indeed.

I already had a year or so with my headphone guide, which at the time was more of a checklist of what I thought was good and what wasn't. I still hadn't truly written full reviews then. The HD650 would actually be what I consider the birth of my full reviews. Not just footnotes and scores. But let me rewind a few years to a time when I had only experienced the original Astro A40s gaming headset, and Audio Technica AD700s. Those were my 'high end' in those days.

The HD650 was that ONE headphone that (at the time) I'd deem impossible for me to buy in terms of price, but felt was the holy grail for me. I only knew of it as that really pretty headphone that a few anime girls wore in some images...


_(image credit: wootazn | Pixel Heaven August 2009)_

I think they were something like $600 back in those days. I told myself I'd never spend that much. And so for a few years, the HD650 was unobtainable to me, but super interesting, and something I craved to experience one day.

By the time I experienced the HD650, I had already destroyed my original plan to never spend that much for a headphone. I had already tried the other mid-fi cans as well. Which at the time were more my flavor. Even so, the HD650 was a revelatory headphone. It completely changed my outlook on warmer, less treble-forward headphones. It paved way for headphones like the LCD2 which I also truly loved, despite them being a departure of my preferences, treble-wise.

So yes, the HD650 was a legend to me. In many ways, that hasn't changed. It's been plenty of years since, and many headphones have come and gone, but one thing has stayed constant: The HD650 is STILL an incredibly beloved headphone. I believe a good headphone is good forever, even if something new comes along that may do things better. So yes, nowadays, the DT880, K701/K702 don't get talked about as much, due to the overwhelming amount of competition. There's too many options, and even though they're still fantastic headphones, many people have opted to look into the next, shiny, new thing. A shame, as they too deserve a lot of love.

However, one headphone still lingers in people's minds despite it being long in the tooth in age, and all of its competition. The HD650. The legend that refuses to fade into obsolescence. I'd wager that in 10 more years, the 650 will still be around in some form, and remain beloved.

Which brings us to the latter years. As if the 650 needed some help, Drop injected immense interest in them by transforming them into the 6XX we know today, at a cost that would've sounded unbelievable all those years ago when I started my journey. No longer was the 650 'unobtainable'. Now, the masses could all truly forego all the nonsense and dive straight into one of the greatest headphones of all time. Scratch that, I wouldn't say it's one of the greatest headphones of all time. The HD650 is, to me, arguably the greatest headphone of all time. I'll explain.



*Build Quality*​
It's funny to say that even at the time of the original HD650's release, the overall shape and design had been around for a long time with headphones like the HD580 Jubilee. Even so, I still believe the HD6XX design looks beautiful today. It is equal parts classic and modern looking. I've always loved headphones with minimalistic outer grills which expose the back of the drivers. It's a design choice that immediately gives me the feeling of it being high end. No tacky excess. Just tasteful elegance. In now classic Drop fashion, the 6XX is a super dark color with a slight gloss on the surface. It isn't overly glossy, and doesn't attract fingerprints. Now, the materials used aren't exactly high end, which has always been somewhat of a problem with the 650 and now the 6XX. They're mainly plastic, and they can be prone to cracking and chipping in particularly on the headband.

Drop tends to have a black color scheme to their variants of headphones, but the 6XX actually has a very dark blue color to it. In most light, the headphone looks a very dark grey to black, and for all intents and purposes will appear like that to most people. It is only under severe scrutiny and light that the slight bluish tint will expose itself.


*Headband:*

Starting with the headband, not much has changed with the 6XX.

The top side of the headband has the Sennheiser branding embossed on top in a darker tone. It's a subtle level of branding, and can actually be difficult to see unless shining light on it in a specific way. I like this understated way of labeling a headphone.

The underside uses the 650 style of padding, meaning that the fabric-covered padding will mainly touch the scalp at 10 and 2 on top of your head, with 12 o'clock being sunken in so as to not touch the top of your dome. I've heard complaints that people prefer the HD600/580 style of padding which utilizes padding in the center as well. I feel this two-end padding makes logical sense, as to force contact only on the sides, and leave the very top alone. As someone who has used a large variety of headphones, a top of the head hotspot usually makes or breaks a headphone's comfort, so I'm with Sennheiser on this one.

The extension arms seems to be made of some sort of light metal/aluminum (please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). It has an incredibly generous amount of extension, where all but the biggest of colossal heads would have absolutely ample space leftover when maxed out. As you adjust, it has audible clicking noises, but no markers. You'll have to adjust by sight.

The forks that attach to the cups allow for minimal vertical and horizontal swivel adjustment, just enough to allow the cups to rest flat on most heads without any issues. Note that forcing the top of the cups inward would allow more degree of movement, but force the snap on attachment of the headband to the cups to come out of position. This actually makes it easy to detach the cups from the headband, if you ever wanted to swap the full headband assembly from the cups.

On the outside of the forks on the top is where the 6XX label and L/R are placed. On the inside is where the Serial Number lies on the left side, and Massdrop branding on the right side. The serial number is merely a sticker if for some reason you felt like removing it.


*Cups:
*

The 6XX's cups are as nameless, logoless, brandless as the 650. The outside of the cups are the bare black grills you've come to expect from a 650, leaving exposed the rear of the driver mounting, which looks akin to an eye shape with a silver backing in place to break up all the exposed black plastic. I love this aesthetic, as mentioned before. Regardless of how long it's been around, it still looks modern today.

The bottom of the cups is where the connectors are placed, using the (proprietary?) connectors used in the 58X/600/650/660S) line of Sennheiser headphones. I can't say I'm a fan of this connector, as it requires quite a bit of force to force the cable into the housing, and I don't have confidence in the very small metallic plugs used for contact. But that's just me. It may not even be a problem. I wish Drop would've modified this to use a more universal type of connector, like 3.5mm or mini xlr. Not required, but it would've been nice.


*Pads:
*

Ah baby, we're back to some good ol' velour. I could never go complain too badly when it comes to velour pads. The 6XX sticks to its 650 roots, with the same pad design and material. That's all I could ask for. No need for extreme changes here. They worked back then, they work today. The inner material is likely basic foam of the non-memory variety, which is also just fine. Keeps them feeling lightweight and breathable.

They are oval in shape with a long but narrow opening. I doubt many people will have a serious complaint about ears touching the inner lining or bottoming out, but then again, these types of nitpicks fall out of my general issues with most headphones. If I can tuck my ears into the openings, that's all I need.

The drivers have a foam covering which aren't directly attached to the pads, and merely rest on top of the driver cover. The pads are easily removable, though aren't exactly universal so don't expect easy pad swapping with anything other than aftermarket pads specifically designed for this form of Sennheiser headphone.


*Cable:*

This is one area Drop has decided to alter compared to the original HD650. Gone is the very long 9ft cable on the 650, and in place is a shorter, more manageable 6ft cable. Though I personally prefer longer cables (I tend to sit far away from what I plug my headphonbes to), I can definitely understand the decision to go with a shorter cable. I feel 6ft is generally the sweet spot in most cases.

The headphone side of the cable uses the typical dual mini plugs found on the 650 and its siblings. Personally would've liked a modified connector for something like 3.5mm, but it's not a huge deal.

The split could've been placed a bit further (6 inches further down would've been perfect). As it stands I feel it's too close to my neck. As the left and right side join, they remain encased in a nice rubber. Doesn't feel like super high quality or anything special, but I prefer a basic cable that isn't going to kink or have exotic materials that make a cable stiff or retain memory. I'm more than happy with the cable material here. It's not a grippy rubber, which other headphones may have, and drive me crazy.

The plug end to the source terminates into 3.5mm, with a 6.3mm snap-on adapter. The plug has a good amount of strain relief. I feel it's more than durable for daily use. No complaints.


*Final Build Impressions:*

The 6XX has a tried and tested design. The only issue I have with the build is the headband itself. I've heard they can be prone to cracking and snapping. I dunno if this was ever addressed in the many years the HD580/600/650 have been out, but I'd still be very careful with it. The unit I have on hand has a minor chip in the paint in the back of the headband, which doesn't ruin the integrity of the structure itself, but I'm quite surprised that it was even there in the first place. Thankfully it's only seen with some direct light. I do wonder.

The rest of the headphone's build seems very durable, and I doubt I'd see any major issues with it even years down the line. The extension arms and cups seem built to last. The pads are likely easily replaceable nowadays with many aftermarket pads available for these lines of Sennheiser headphones.

The cable's only questionable aspect for me would be the mini plugs themselves, and I don't really know how durable they are. Sennheiser has used them forever, so they probably aren't really an issue in terms of longevity.

All in all, I wouldn't feel the need to baby the 6XX, with the exception of exercising some caution around the headband. I'd say the 6XX's build quality gets a pass from me, with a slight reservation for the finish.



*Accessories*​
The 6XX doesn't come with much, other than it's protective case, a booklet, and the included 1'4" (6.3mm) snap on adapter.



Case - A very nice case to throw them in to keep them safe in storage. It's quite large, and has a lot of inner foam to keep the 6XX protected. I would've preferred a carrying case, but this is a solid secondary choice.





*Comfort*​

*Weight:*

The weight without the cable is 260g. Considering all my most recent headphones have weighed quite a bit more, the 6XX is refreshingly lightweight for a full-sized headphone. The lightweight nature doesn't automatically means it's built poorly either. I'd be more than likely to toss these around much more than most headphones I've owned, though I'd be careful with the headband.


*Headband:*

While the padding has a notch in the middle that alleviates any potential hotspotting on top of the head, the 6XX can still stand to be a little more comfortable on the head. It's generally comfortable, but I do find myself shuffling and readjusting them every once in awhile as the two areas of headband padding still has a minor presence that needs to be relieved during prolonged sessions.


*Ear Pads:*

The oval-shaped velour ear pads are fantastic for comfort. Very breathable, with enough density in the foam to keep the pads from bottoming out. The pads are very large, with openings that are equally large, albeit narrow. They should still allow for most ears to fit inside without feeling restricted.


*Clamp:*

If you know Sennheiser, you know that you need to expect some clamp. This is probably the least comfortable aspect of the 6XX. It is clampy by default. I absolutely recommend you stretching the 6XX over some books, a box, or whatever you can find that can let them rest with the drivers far away from one another. It will allow the clamp to be reduced significantly. The extension arms can handle the punishment, and if you feel you've overdone it, you can just bend them inward a bit and put them back in position for some moderate clamping.

Personally, I like some moderate clamp for security, but not as much as the headphones come by default. After having stretched them out and getting them to where I wanted, the 6XX is very good in terms of long term comfort.


*Final Comfort Impressions:*

The headband padding is probably the only area I'd want improved, but it's really not a big deal. The 6XX is one of those headphones I'd wear all day with just a few moments to readjust every hour or so. It's also one of the only full-sized headphones I can lay down in bed with. I can't think of many open-backed, full-sized headphones I could do that with.



*Noise Control*​
As a fully open-backed headphone, you can't expect miracles here. Noise isolation is poor, as is to be expected. You will hear external noises quite easily. That being said, I do think noise leakage is not a huge deal. Certainly not ideal for a 'same room' noise control, though for controlling noise leakage into other rooms, the 6XX isn't that bad, and I feel a closed door is all it takes, even at high volume. It's certainly no planarmagnetic, which could function as mini speakers. Most dynamic drivers don't tend output sounds loud enough to travel to other rooms with an annoying amount of volume.

For me, as long as I can listen in a room with the door closed and not disturb people in other rooms, it's all the noise leakage control I'd need.



*Sound*​
As I've stated earlier, The HD-650 (and by extension, the 6XX) is legendary in the audiophile community. Warm, full bodied, exceptionally balanced, without the egregious upper range that many headphones tend to have. Now, it's not perfect, but it's carved into a niche that not many other headphone can hope to contend with. The 6XX is pure, earthy, organic goodness.


*Bass:*

There aren't many open-backed headphones that I've heard with dynamic drivers that have a potent bassline quite like the 6XX. There are even less than can do it without making vocal sections sound overly boomy and unnatural. The 6XX somehow manages to bring out a lively amount of bass in its thump, rumble, and depth. It's not the CLEANEST bass you'll ever hear, but it's enhanced just enough to give the 6XX a character that leads with an enjoyable amount of raw energy. These are definitely fun sounding down low, even though the 6XX is still a headphone that will be known for its great balance and mellow, mild mannered presentation of sound overall. It's like an adult dressed for business, yet one who wears funny, multi-colored socks underneath the slacks. It knows how to be professional, but can party along with the others.

The bass has a nice amount of texture and lengthy decay, aiding it's full bodied presentation. It's not going to reach planar levels of depth, but it is still quite respectable for an open-backed headphone in this regard.

Checking frequencies, while low in volume, you can hear the drivers make a good amount of effort in outputting as low as 25hz. A great result, meaning most bass will be heard and felt, which in actual practice delivers in spades. So if you're someone who needs potency in their bass, without going full basshead, the 6XX will not disappoint.


*Midrange to Treble:*

To bring back how I felt about the HD650 many years ago, the 6XX has not changed my mindset on the midrange one bit. I don't think there's much that I need to say different from what I said back then, so I'll simply quote myself here (with some minor corrections). It is exactly how I feel even today.

_"This is the star of the show. And when I say star... I mean, it is absolutely one of the best interpretations of midrange reproduction I have ever heard on any headphone. Once I heard the (HD6XX), it made me see midrange importance in a whole new light. The vocals are so sweet, so upfront, so rich, so haunting! Based on that aspect alone, I recommend this headphone to ANYONE looking for a headphone that does vocals some amazing justice."_

During frequency testing (note: what I hear may not be indicative of published measurements and graphs, but is how I personally interpret the sound), from bass to early midrange, there was plenty of presence in all ranges. There is a bit of prominence at 3.5khz and 5khz (the headphone's loudest point), which may be the only two points of contention in terms of fatiguing aspects of sound. Personally, neither area is enough to cause a huge problem to my ears, though you may wanna take note if you're sensitive to those frequencies. Continuing on, there's a minor dip at 6khz, to slow rise back to 7khz, to another slow reduction in volume which then continues with a moderate, neither lackluster, nor overbearing presence up to 10khz. Beyond 10khz continues being present without being overly strong.

So while the 650 at some point was known to be overly dark or veiled at a point in time, the 6XX and latter variants of the 650 improved the response to become much more balanced and detailed, without over-emphasizing the details to the point of hurting its pleasant, mild mannered characteristics.

The 6XX is still quite revealing, considering how well balanced it is, though the upper range takes a back seat in forwardness.


*Soundstage:*

The soundstage on the 6XX is something that even back then with the 650 was something I didn't particularly find all that noteworthy. This can simply be due to the fact that the midrange is so focused and upfront, and treble isn't particularly a focal point of the 6XX sound, there's no logical way to give the presentation of its sound all that much space for a soundstage to work its magic. Realistically speaking, you're gonna end up sacrificing some midrange forwardness for soundstage, or vice-versa. That's not to say the 6XX doesn't benefit from DSPs that can enhance soundstages, but in its default state, the soundstage to my ears is merely whats to be expected, and that's borderline average for an open headphone.

Of course, with surround processing DSPs, whatever weakness the 6XX has in soundstaging and imaging can be mitigated considerably. As such, the 6XX can easily be a worthwhile headphone for things like gaming with a moderately big, virtual surround soundstage, though certainly not among the best in this regard. I'll mention more of this in the gaming section.



*Amplification*​
At 300ohm, you will want to feed the 6XX some good, clean power. It has impedance spikes in the bass that can reach 500 ohms, so to mitigate the bass sounding starved and weak, I definitely recommend a moderately decent amp. Something like a Schiit Hel is a great starting point and should provide decent power for to cover the 6XX's base requirements. I hear the 650/6XX scales with better amplification, so take that as you will. You will likely get more out of the 6XX the better the gear that is paired up with it. All I know is that it sounds excellent off both the Hel as well as the Magni 3/Modi 3 combo.

As for what type of amplifiers to use, I think the 6XX is such a special headphone in that it will all depend on whether you want to offset its warmer, musical traits with more detail and precision of something like a detailed solid state amp, or if you want to enhance the already great inherent traits that it has with a tube amplifier. The world is yours with the 6XX. Experiment as you see fit.



*Gaming*​
If you've read my impression of the HD650 and gaming, you'd know by now that I find these good, but not the most optimal of all gaming headphones. For instance, the cheaper models of old with the 555 and 595 up to the updated variants of the 558 and 598/599 do better for competitive gaming purpose do to a better soundstage and positional accuracy. The 6XX's soundstage is a little smaller, tighter, and harder to portray rear positional depth as those other Sennheiser headphones. Even despite these limitations, it's not as they are absolutely poor. They're fine. Not AMAZING, but it's not as using the 6XX will keep you from doing well in competitive gaming. The 650 and in turn the 6XX are of a higher tier of general sound quality, and add an additional layer of fun and immersion in comparison to those lower tier models. As such, I find the 6XX to be a better headphone for casual/fun, and in turn, general gaming as a whole.

Unless you are in tryhard mode, and need JUST a heavily competitive leaning headphone, the 6XX will suit most people just fine for all forms of gaming. Personally (and for over half a year as of August 2020), I've given up messing about with many different headphones and use the 6XX for all gaming purposes, whether casual or competitive. I have recently been pulled into playing a lot of Call of Duty's Warzone (battle royale) mode with my closest friends. I've only been using the 6XX during this timespan, with great results. I have been able to pre-fire through walls knowing there are enemies behind it simply by the audio cues.

I'm not the greatest Warzone player, but I have never felt like the 6XX has limited me in being able to correctly place enemy movement. Vertical placement is another thing altogether, but that is an issue with the game, not the 6XX. Until more games move to newer DSPs like Dolby Atmos via in game options, vertical cues are a limitation that 5.1/7.1 sound processors such as Dolby Headphone and Creative's SBX can't fully realize.

If I had to make a definitive choice of between any of those competitive leaning Sennheiser headphones, or the 6XX, I'd still put all my money on the 6XX, any day of the week. I'd rather take a headphone very good in most things, than a headphone amazing in one thing. The 6XX is pound for pound the better choice, generally speaking.

To sum up gaming purposes, these are great for casual/fun gaming, and good, not GREAT, for competitive gaming. If you're focused mainly on competitive over just general gaming, then perhaps you're better off with some other Sennheiser offerings like the 598/599, or headsets like the Game One/PC37X. For everyone else, the higher fidelity sound of the 6XX, with its rich bass, luscious midrange, and smoother treble will more than suffice for most other forms of gaming.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

The 6XX is a somewhat traditional all rounder. Meaning there's very little you can't use the 6XX with. It just works exceptionally well for whatever you throw at it. From just watching regular TV, podcasts, games, movies, music, you name it, the 6XX has you covered. It does all of it so well, you'll be hard pressed to be disappointed in what it can't do. Perhaps hardcore detail retrieval would be better suited for other upper midrange and treble enhanced headphones, but otherwise, there's not much here to dislike.


*Practicality:*

The 6XX is best suited for home and office use due to its slightly higher than normal amplification requirements, as well as open-backed design, meaning you won't want to be near others when using the 6XX. They certainly won't leak out through your office into another's listening space, but I certainly wouldn't go out to a public place with them on. I suggest keeping the 6XX at home near your computer setup or listening station.

They're also not exactly portable so I wouldn't recommend trying to throw them in a bag for transportable uses either.


*Who Is It For?*

The 6XX is for nearly anyone and everyone looking for a cost effective mid to high end headphone that won't break the bank. Drop has allowed the 650 to reach a wider audience with the release of the 6XX, and I insist anyone wanting a $200 pair of headphones to look long and hard at the 6XX. Unless you're a treblehead or mainly just detail focused, the 6XX is for those who just want to enjoy the rich, lifelike sound, and all day musical enjoyment. 2020 is a rather spoiled year for quality headphones at a low price, and it all starts (and may just stop) with the 6XX. I recommend the 6XX to practically anyone, especially those starting their audiophile journey. You may find that there's little to compel you away from the familiar loveliness that is the 6XX. It's that good.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Lightweight
Price
Long term comfort
Bass
Midrange
Tonality


*Dislikes:*

Initial clamping force
Headband padding could be better
Wish Sennheiser updated the cable connector to something else
Headband durability may be questionable



*Final Impressions*​
Going back to what I said in the introduction. Why are they, one of (if not) the greatest headphone of all time? When I say greatest, I don't mean the very best. There's higher end headphones that do many of the things they do, and probably do them better. However, from its pedigree, its affordability, its legendary cult status, its mass market appeal, the HD650/6XX is that one headphone that for the vast majority of people, know that they're in for a wonderful, consistent headphone experience.

It doesn't have to be the best to be the greatest. It just has to be that one headphone that you know you can tuck away, come back to years later and go, "Yeah, I remember why I love these so much." They're that morning cup of coffee. They're the fireplace in the middle of dead winter. They're that familiar, pleasant sensation of being...home. You put them on, and you know they won't make your ears bleed. Their timbre, their forward presence without being shouty or aggressive nature. Their smoothness, their well mannered balance that errs on the side of caution. You can wake up in the morning, and put these on and know they're gonna sound great without straining your ears. You can lay down in bed at the end of the day and know they'll soothe your body towards slumber. Their appeal is all-encompassing.

In case you haven't realized it yet, you really should experience these headphones at least once. If you're on the fence on what headphones to get in the price range, it's almost a guarantee that you should really set your sights on the HD6XX. It really is that simple.


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## tglodjo (Aug 7, 2020)

I received my pair of 6XXs a couple of weeks ago, and while I don't have the breadth of experience for comparisons as Mad Lust, I can say that I am very pleased with them and that this review definitely captures their best qualities. For anyone looking for an all-around pair of headphones, or someone who is looking to purchase a few sets that offer different signatures, the 6XX is a must. I can't imagine anyone disliking the sound signature unless they're a bass head or treble masochist.


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## dsrk

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So without further delay, here is my long withheld 6XX review (seriously, this thing was done many months ago, save for last minute edits). Anywhoo, here it is. Hope y'all like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent review. 
Exactly, they have been my daily driver for almost 7 years now. I have bought many headphones in $1500 range and only one headphones stayed with me. 
Amping and pairing is most important thing to bring the best out of them.


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## Chastity (Aug 7, 2020)

tglodjo said:


> I can't imagine anyone disliking the sound signature unless their a bass head or treble masochist.


You mean me.   I find them too compressed in staging, and they have a tendancy for soft sounds to get lost in their background. Also, I've noticed some instruments muddling into each other. I consider the current offerings of HD5xx - HD6xx series to be sandtraps in the geography of headphones.


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## tglodjo

Chastity said:


> You mean me.     I find them too compressed in staging, and they have a tendancy for soft sounds to get lost in their background.  Also, I've noticed some instruments muddling into each other.



Lol. I guess so! I can understanding the staging comment though. I use my 6XX mostly for music and TYGR/DT880/Vokyl Erupt for gaming specifically because of the staging and imaging differences.


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## Magol79

I bought a pair of 650's a few weeks ago. After being in this hobby for a few years I wanted to finally hear them for myself. I plan to keep them as a reference set when comparing other headphones. They are very good allround headphones, but lack a bit of sub bass for me. That said I think the HD650/6xx is more or less a mandatory headphone to audition before going up to  $1K headphones.


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## Chastity

tglodjo said:


> Lol. I guess so! I can understanding the staging comment though. I use my 6XX mostly for music and TYGR/DT880/Vokyl Erupt for gaming specifically because of the staging and imaging differences.


I blame these for starting it all:


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## descloud

tglodjo said:


> I can't imagine anyone disliking the sound signature unless they're a bass head or treble masochist.


You might want to expand your imagination a bit because there are people who don't really find its sound signature that great.  I didn't really dislike how they sounded when I had them, but I didn't find them excellent sounding, just decent to good.  So to others, I could be described as 'disliking' their sound signature.  

Bass can be heard, but too much mid-bass emphasis and lacks extension.  Midrange was good because of its smooth quality and has good detail retrieval.  But the treble region was too subdued to sound natural for me.  Head stage was just about average to maybe slightly less than average (average for me being that I perceive the width to reach my shoulders).
Best I can describe this is for example playing an acoustic guitar because I play it.  How you perceive an acoustic guitar harmonics will vary when listening from it in front of the one playing it, behind the one playing it, and when you're actually playing the guitar.  So it's three different positions of how you will hear it (assuming you're in a room with the guitar and the player, as well as removing the factor of playing it through an amplifier).  For me, listening to acoustic guitar tracks with the HD650/HD6XX is like being behind the guitar player in the point of reference I gave above.  So most songs I listen to will have that particular quality from my perception.

This is not to say that they sound bad.  The HD6XX are probably the best overall sounding headphone at the $200 price range, and they could be the only headphone for a good number of people (especially on this thread).  Depending on your point of reference, the HD6XX/HD650 could be dark sounding or could be neutral sounding, and to some can even be bright sounding (and I've seen some anecdotes of these people).  But to say that people disliking their sound signature are only in two camps of bass head or treble masochist is just a false dichotomy and narrow minded to say the least.


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## tglodjo

descloud said:


> You might want to expand your imagination a bit because there are people who don't really find its sound signature that great.



I appreciate your detailed response. It was an over-exaggerated statement. I should have framed it more about appreciation for the HD6XX in terms of its value and sound quality. I can definitely understand why someone might dislike its sound, and you gave excellent reasons why.


----------



## Radio81

Does anyone have a bass shaker or tactile transducer setup for their gaming rig?  I'm thinking about attaching a couple of the aura pro bass shakers to the underside of my couch, along with an amp yet to be determined.  I'm curious to know how well it will work with a headphone setup though.  I imagine with a PC you could get the LFE channel out to an amp to power the shakers.  But for my headphone setup which is only PS4, I'm not sure how to send only LFE to the bass shaker while also using headphones.  It's easy enough to split the signal at the headphone amp and send L/R audio to the bass shaker amp, but that's not really ideal.

I'm currently running:
Turtle Beach Tactical Audio Controller (DAC)
Magni 3
Loki

I could also easily split the LFE at my AVR for this, but then it's turned down when I have headphones on.  I think it would be cool to add some immersion to a headphone setup, but only if it can be done properly.


----------



## holden4th

I bought the 6XX a few months ago when they were going for $AUS220. Jude assured us that these were the 650s in all but name. 

A bit of background. I remember going into a HiFi store (remember those?) that I regularly visited and the salesman said "You've got to try these." They were, as pointed out by Chastity, what started it all off - the HD580s. At the time I had the HD540 Reference Gold. The 580s just blew them away but I couldn't afford them. About eight years ago I bought a used pair of the second series and put them to use with classical music. They are a beautifully detailed headphone but lack any real sub bass (though amplification does help). They peaked my interest into what the 650s might sound like so for a price as good as that I jumped on it.

When I first used them I was very disappointed - some legend! They sounded decidedly ordinary especially when I thought about all the glowing reviews by so many. Terms I would use would be muffled, poor tone, lacking bass (flabby and untuned), minimal soundstage, etc. I nearly sent them back. However, posts in this thread suggested that I stick with them and my perception of their sound would change. I also had to take into account that my current listening was being done through one of the finest single dynamic driver iems ever made - The Flare Golds. At work I have the excellent Shure SRH840s. Of course the sound quality was going be a step down.

So I've persevered and I still have the 6XXs and am using them regularly. So what changed my mind? This will be contentious but to put it simply, they 'burned in'. It took quite a few hours of playback but this is what I believe has happened. My main reason for stating this is that I didn't listen to them on a regular basis during the 'burn in' period therefore taking familiarity out of the equation. Instead, I took 'sound samples at various intervals using the same few tracks. I could hear the difference each time, most notably in the bass. There was also more clarity in the top end and the sound staging improved. That beautiful midrange changed not one iota.

Finally, I could hear what others did, a supremely musical set of headphones that put the fun back into music. I don't use them for every genre. If I listen to a string quartet, for example, I want pinpoint instrumental placing and the the tonal accuracy of the strings. The 6XXs won't do that where the Flares definitely will. I also prefer piano via the Flare Golds

Amplification has been mentioned as being important and I agree. The Senns sound many times better through my Burson Play than directly from my A&K Jr. The amp in the Play is incredibly powerful and does the job well and it's also only slightly north of neutral for sound.

So the 6XXs are a keeper and they've got me back into listening to some of those older rock recordings that have been languishing on my shelves for a while.


----------



## MattTCG

Nice write up as always MLE! I would add that you not suggest using books or similar to "stretch" the headband. This method actually does more compression of the earpads which will cause them to age more quickly. It's preferred to extended the cups fully and then to gently bend the metal gently on each side until you get the right amount of clamp. 

Also I think that you forgot to mention that I actually loaned you my pair to give you a first listen to the 650 back in the day


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

MattTCG said:


> Nice write up as always MLE! I would add that you not suggest using books or similar to "stretch" the headband. This method actually does more compression of the earpads which will cause them to age more quickly. It's preferred to extended the cups fully and then to gently bend the metal gently on each side until you get the right amount of clamp.
> 
> Also I think that you forgot to mention that I actually loaned you my pair to give you a first listen to the 650 back in the day


I take off the earpads before I stretch the headphones...

And it's been an eternity, you think I'd remember that? Hahaha. Thanks for that btw.


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone tried out Out Of Your Head software from Darin Fong? I downloaded it and test it out for gaming.  And to my surprise, there's a pretty high latency.  I mean the software is really good and the surround sound is good too, but there high latency just kill it for gaming.  I  still think Wave NX is still better and it only cost $10.


----------



## Fegefeuer

I'm fine with Atmos for Atmos games like Division and the G6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone tried out Out Of Your Head software from Darin Fong? I downloaded it and test it out for gaming.  And to my surprise, there's a pretty high latency.  I mean the software is really good and the surround sound is good too, but there high latency just kill it for gaming.  I  still think Wave NX is still better and it only cost $10.


I reviewed it a long time ago, though i guess it may not have been on the guide itself.

I didn't particularly find anything wrong with it, but I didn't do heavy comparisons.

It's just too expensive for what it is though. That's my issue with it. I don't think most gamers are gonna spend that kind of money for presets when b there's so many cheaper options that do just as well if not better.


----------



## Oberlus (Aug 9, 2020)

Hi there.
I hope I can get some light here:

I just bought the G6 as a and I've been trying It for a couple of days.

So far I found out that I prefer the DH VSS from my Mixamp Pro 2013. Maybe I'm really really used to It after 6 years... I feel the Mixamp way more natural, so now I'm using It with the optical out of the G6 for the VSS instead of using SBX.

I've read some messages on this thread regarding the digital output format of the G6, but I'm still confused:

Previously I've been using my Realtek digital output with Dolby Digital format to feed the Mixamp. 
I can tell some differences when I feed the Mixamp with the optical out of the G6:

- With the G6 I get "real" 7.1 virtual speakers on the Mixamp, not upmixed from 5.1 like I get from the Realtek chip. I can tell in the way side speakers sound. I mean, with the upmix the side speakers sound like "made up" when I do the sound test from Hesuvi.
- I also feel the sound clearer and better quality (placebo?).

I'm not sure about the quality thing because it's just a digital signal, right? Is not the DAC the only responsible for the quality?

And, what format is outputting the G6 thought the optical? DDL 7.1? The Mixamp is processing It without a problem and, unlike the Realtek digital out wich gives me up to 5.1 channels, is passing 7.1 channels to the Mixamp.


----------



## Tripokaridos

Great review. I have hd 600 650 many years. Recently 2 years i bought HD6xx and us expected they arw great. But everything that i wanted from 600 and 650 i found it on HD660s way more clarity faster tighter sound and way way better separation on instruments not like 1990 pro separation but overall to me HD660s are the best.
But i have to say HD6xx are better for my old bad qualitty recordings they feel smoother and veiled so better for me on that.


----------



## illram

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone tried out Out Of Your Head software from Darin Fong? I downloaded it and test it out for gaming.  And to my surprise, there's a pretty high latency.  I mean the software is really good and the surround sound is good too, but there high latency just kill it for gaming.  I  still think Wave NX is still better and it only cost $10.


The "Gamer" preset is like $25 or something and has no perceivable latency and sounded really good to me, as far as rear cues go. I thought it sounded excellent but I just found the software sort of clunky and ultimately didn't want to pay for it since I had other options already that got me 75% of the way there. And then once Super X-Fi came out it became moot, as that is equal to or better than OOYH.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> The "Gamer" preset is like $25 or something and has no perceivable latency and sounded really good to me, as far as rear cues go. I thought it sounded excellent but I just found the software sort of clunky and ultimately didn't want to pay for it since I had other options already that got me 75% of the way there. And then once Super X-Fi came out it became moot, as that is equal to or better than OOYH.


So right now you're using Super Xfi X3?
What about RedScape? has anyone tried it yet? it's like $100 without the HeadTracking device.


----------



## illram

jincuteguy said:


> So right now you're using Super Xfi X3?
> What about RedScape? has anyone tried it yet? it's like $100 without the HeadTracking device.



I'm using the dongle/amp. I keep going back to try other things, like Atmos, or SBX, and I keep confirming it's the best thing available to my ears so far.

Haven't tried redscape.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> I'm using the dongle/amp. I keep going back to try other things, like Atmos, or SBX, and I keep confirming it's the best thing available to my ears so far.
> 
> Haven't tried redscape.



To me Wave NX is still the best, Super Xfi is good but the Rear Cues with the Wave NX is way better.


----------



## illram

jincuteguy said:


> To me Wave NX is still the best, Super Xfi is good but the Rear Cues with the Wave NX is way better.


It's funny how everyone's ears are different. Waves rear cues were hard to discern for me and I couldn't even really tell of they were there at all. I never tried it with the head tracker though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 10, 2020)

Waves NX took a period of adjustment (as well as changing the room size to 40 from the default 35?). But yeah, I'd put it behind SXFI, GSX, Dolby Headphone 2, SBX. I think that'd be my order actually.

I fired up the Mobius the other day for Warzone, and I was absolutely disoriented, after having used DH2 for so long. My ears have to readjust for Waves NX.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Waves NX took a period of adjustment (as well as changing the room size to 40 from the default 35?). But yeah, I'd put it behind SXFI, GSX, Dolby Headphone 2, SBX. I think that'd be my order actually.
> 
> I fired up the Mobius the other day for Warzone, and I was absolutely disoriented, after having used DH2 for so long. My ears have to readjust for Waves NX.



Hey Just curious where would DTS fit in your order


----------



## Radio81

I see Creative updated their BT-W2 transceiver with a new BT-W3, which includes a 3.5mm mic for the DS4 controller on PS4.  Anyone have experience with the product yet?  I couldn't find any specs on the mic.  Wonder if it's halfway decent.

https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-bt-w3


----------



## tglodjo

Radio81 said:


> I see Creative updated their BT-W2 transceiver with a new BT-W3, which includes a 3.5mm mic for the DS4 controller on PS4.  Anyone have experience with the product yet?  I couldn't find any specs on the mic.  Wonder if it's halfway decent.
> 
> https://us.creative.com/p/speakers/creative-bt-w3



Don't have any experience with it, but if it is halfway decent, that's a really awesome implementation for using Bluetooth headphones and still being able to chat on console.


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Hey Just curious where would DTS fit in your order


I decided to do some testing, since I have Dolby Access and DTS:X for Windows Sonics on my system.  DTS:X is doing some room simulation, so you get that flattening affect from the room reverb, but it's not as bad as say Waves NX.  You have 2 settings, Balanced and Spacious.  I find the cues are more telling with balanced.  While I liked Spacious since is lessens the flattening affect, the spatial cues aren't as strong and noticeable.  There also was some notable boosting of the lower registers, and level enhancement for closer sounds.  (When my sorc in SWTOR is casting Force spells, they got louder than usual)

With Dolby Atmos for Headphones, they don't do the room sim, or they don't apply the Reverb heavily, so things sound more like they do normally.  Here you have a bunch of presets, and option to make your own profile.  There are 2 settings:  Surround Virtualizer and Volume Leveler.  The former controls HRTF, the latter plays with dynamics of closer and further away sounds.  Now SWTOR already does distance to a degree, so the Leveler only enhanced it, and too much for my tastes.  Luckily, you can disable this in a Custom Profile.  You also have access to a 10-band EQ for each profile.

When I disable Windows Sonics, I get the HRTF Support from Asus' Sonic Studio III.  The effect there is not as strong, but very clear, with minimal audio distortion for the spatial acoustics.  I understand that their HRTF library is from the people who do their own spatializer, whose name escapes me atm.  Tho I did not care for their stand alone product.

Which did I prefer?  For gaming, I preferred the Dolby Atmos implementation, mainly due to the greater level of control you have, and less room reverb sim.  Of note, DTS does not have a HRTF profile for the DT-1990.   Tho I can see how some may prefer the DTS:X since the spatial cues are more apparent and can be easier to note. Not an issue with DT-1990 grade of detail and imaging. 

Of note, it's nice to see that SWTOR is Windows Sonics aware and compatible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Hey Just curious where would DTS fit in your order


I bought the license on PC, and didn't like it. I'd have to hear a hardware version of DTS Headphone X to truly give you a definite answer.


----------



## stavros.m (Aug 10, 2020)

Chastity said:


> I decided to do some testing, since I have Dolby Access and DTS:X for Windows Sonics on my system.  DTS:X is doing some room simulation, so you get that flattening affect from the room reverb, but it's not as bad as say Waves NX.  You have 2 settings, Balanced and Spacious.  I find the cues are more telling with balanced.  While I liked Spacious since is lessens the flattening affect, the spatial cues aren't as strong and noticeable.  There also was some notable boosting of the lower registers, and level enhancement for closer sounds.  (When my sorc in SWTOR is casting Force spells, they got louder than usual)
> 
> With Dolby Atmos for Headphones, they don't do the room sim, or they don't apply the Reverb heavily, so things sound more like they do normally.  Here you have a bunch of presets, and option to make your own profile.  There are 2 settings:  Surround Virtualizer and Volume Leveler.  The former controls HRTF, the latter plays with dynamics of closer and further away sounds.  Now SWTOR already does distance to a degree, so the Leveler only enhanced it, and too much for my tastes.  Luckily, you can disable this in a Custom Profile.  You also have access to a 10-band EQ for each profile.
> 
> ...



Perfect thank you for the information  i am debating on buying dts unbound or the  Creative's SBX MB3 Or maybe just go with hardware sxfi x3. I currently own dolby atmos for headphone and use that only when it actually supports atmos. But not many games utilize it


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Perfect thank you for the information  i am debating on buying dts unbound or the  Creative's SBX MB3 Or maybe just go with hardware sxfi x3. I currently own dolby atmos for headphone and use that only when it actually supports atmos. But not many games utilize it


No, they don't directly, however, it's still a Windows Sonic plug-in, and therefore if a game recognizes that, it will do multichannel to it to generate Virtual Surround.


----------



## stavros.m

What would you be your opinion the better buy  Creative's SBX MB3  and a stack or the HEL  or SXFI X3 strictly for pc gaming


----------



## Chastity

Well, for strictly gaming, and you aren't using heavy-duty headphones, then an X3 for the SXFi would be a nice option.  I suppose you could use an amp if desired.

Once you start getting into music listening, and even movies, then MB3 + external stack.  The VSS software options really mesh well with my M300 + TUBE-01 + Asgard 3.


----------



## stavros.m

Chastity said:


> Well, for strictly gaming, and you aren't using heavy-duty headphones, then an X3 for the SXFi would be a nice option.  I suppose you could use an amp if desired.
> 
> Once you start getting into music listening, and even movies, then MB3 + external stack.  The VSS software options really mesh well with my M300 + TUBE-01 + Asgard 3.


thank you for all the help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 11, 2020)

Hey guys, I wanted to throw an idea your way.

Would you guys be interested in random commentary over gameplay videos on YouTube? What I mean is I'll bring up a topic, like say, something like "Personal musings about classic mid-fi headphones in 2020". And I'll talk about my thoughts on the matter in a non-rehearsed, straight from my head way. The gameplay will be  mostly low/silent as something to keep your eyes occupied while I talk about whatever real subject I'm on. Probably something like Warzone.

I kinda want my YouTube to get rolling (it's been devoid of anything really for many years), and since I'm super camera shy, I think this is a way for me to dip my toes.

Let me know.

I can even do off the dome reviews of things like the KSC35 Wireless which I have plenty to say. This is something I wouldn't normally even write a review about, so it'd give insight on other gear.

The only reason I'm fancy to the idea, is because I spend a LOT of time talking to myself at work, and realize that if I start rehearsing voiced reviews, or just thoughts on audio, some of my best 'work' comes from me justing spitting words to myself. 😂

Being able to capture this would really being out another side of my impressions and the like.


----------



## Fegefeuer (Aug 11, 2020)

Only if you, after dropping the unnecessary shyness, make headphone reviews in the context of gaming and also review game audio in quality and technicalities and include demo gameplay samples in your videos. This is very rare, something I really miss.

How's audio in the game, how good are the samples, how immersive is it? How's 3D Audio in PS5 game X implemented? Somethin along that with headphones, VSS etc. in the mix.

This is your strong point and I think you should build upon it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 11, 2020)

I would totally do all that if I could put all focus on the content. It's hard to motivate myself to do all that in my free time however 😂

Mainly because of my normal job z and me coming home not trying to WORK again.  Especially when ai know nothing of editing, setting up audio to record the dsps, etc. It's a lot of... stuff.

I'm dipping my toes with this stuff first and see how it goes.


----------



## Chuck Dee (Aug 11, 2020)

Made another thread on this but maybe of interest to some here;
I discovered that the HD600 and 650 drivers are exactly the same size as 565 drivers when  I decided to refurbish my tatty old 565’s.
The 565 ‘ovation’ chassis has to be one of the most comfortable and light headphone chassis available so I decided to find more old knackered 565 sets to refurbish with new pads, cables and upgraded 600 and 650 drivers.

I bought some supercheap replacement pads from aliexpress, made some new cables and bought new drivers from Sennheiser @ about £50 each as I recall.

I now have a lovely trifecta of HD565’s with 565, 600 and 650 drvers.
They’re definitely a ‘staging post’ headphone on the route to higher end phones. My own route took me to the lovely Audeze LCD2 Fazors (now for sale here).

So for a cheaper option than pukka HD6xx or 600/650’s grab yourself a 565 chassis and refurbish them with outsourced drivers!

I have compared my Franken650’s with an original HD650 set and couldn’t make any discernible differentiation sonically although I rate my Franken650’s as being more comfortable.


----------



## Radio81

tglodjo said:


> Don't have any experience with it, but if it is halfway decent, that's a really awesome implementation for using Bluetooth headphones and still being able to chat on console.



I went ahead and ordered it.  I have a pair of Sony WF-1000XM3 IEM's that I sometimes game with.  They're actually pretty decent with Ambient Sound Mode, so I can still hear myself talk and I'm not yelling in party chat (with modmic wireless mic).  I'm not expecting miracles from the included BT-W3 mic, but as long as it doesn't sound like I'm talking into a tin can, it could be cool.  I just have a feeling though that I will have to turn up the sensitivity to the point where it will pick up everything in the room.

If the mic sucks, I still needed a better BT adapter anyway.  Worth a shot.

I have the BT-W2 which relies on Creative's own FastStream codec to work with chat via BT.  There are only a handful of headsets that support it, and none of which are really geared toward hifi.  At least none that I could find when I've searched.


----------



## Snikibiki (Aug 11, 2020)

Is there anything better to 2000$ than hd800s only for competetive wise? Separation and imaging must be top notch, since a lot going on in my game, like 20 enemies around(close to each other) doing different things


----------



## tglodjo

Radio81 said:


> I went ahead and ordered it.



Please post your impressions once you get some time with it. It's not anything I need at the moment, but I always appreciate knowing what options are out there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Snikibiki said:


> Is there anything better to 2000$ than hd800s only for competetive wise? Separation and imaging must be top notch, since a lot going on in my game, like 20 enemies around(close to each other) doing different things


You'd probably have to go High end Stax or Koss K1000 type ear speakers...


----------



## Radio81

tglodjo said:


> Please post your impressions once you get some time with it. It's not anything I need at the moment, but I always appreciate knowing what options are out there.



You bet.  It's supposed to arrive on Thursday, so after the weekend I should have some time with it on PS4.


----------



## Snikibiki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'd probably have to go High end Stax or Koss K1000 type ear speakers...


Wow, they are so weird, but ill test them out, but which other "normal looking" over ear cans you can recommend for my purpose (only for competetive wise)? I would want to test them all side by side


----------



## jonathan c

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So without further delay, here is my long withheld 6XX review (seriously, this thing was done many months ago, save for last minute edits. I know the 6XX has been around for years now, but the release of the review was supposed to coincide with something related to the 6XX and drop, but that didn't end up happening, hence the delay). Anywhoo, here it is. Hope y'all like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Mad Lust Envy said:


> So without further delay, here is my long withheld 6XX review (seriously, this thing was done many months ago, save for last minute edits. I know the 6XX has been around for years now, but the release of the review was supposed to coincide with something related to the 6XX and drop, but that didn't end up happening, hence the delay). Anywhoo, here it is. Hope y'all like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a comprehensive review! Well done! The 6XX is, to me, a headphone that “punches above its weight (class)”. I have been rotating it for listening among Audeze LCD-X, Rosson Audio RAD-0 and Meze Empyrean. The 6XX carries itself really well in the rotation. As you alluded to, the 6XX balance, tone, and detail allows for immense musical enjoyment. The 6XX also benefits from and is revealing enough for gear such as the LehmannAudio SE Linear and the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 headphone amplifiers. An unusual pairing, one might think, but it is a testament to the 6XX’s capabilities.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Snikibiki said:


> Is there anything better to 2000$ than hd800s only for competetive wise? Separation and imaging must be top notch, since a lot going on in my game, like 20 enemies around(close to each other) doing different things



If you can add a few hundred dollars then a used HE-1000SE would be another total soundstage gem. Huge imaging, tall, wide, deep, very very sharp compared to Arya, HEK vs 1 and v2. Honestly though, it has a few other flaws which are not worth it, like a exaggerated upper treble etc. 

Get a HD 800 with good pads for 600-700 and never look back. I say this as someone who (for now) owns both


----------



## jincuteguy

Fegefeuer said:


> If you can add a few hundred dollars then a used HE-1000SE would be another total soundstage gem. Huge imaging, tall, wide, deep, very very sharp compared to Arya, HEK vs 1 and v2. Honestly though, it has a few other flaws which are not worth it, like a exaggerated upper treble etc.
> 
> Get a HD 800 with good pads for 600-700 and never look back. I say this as someone who (for now) owns both


You own both the HD800 and HE1000 SE? They have used HE 1000 SE ? I didn tknow that


----------



## Fegefeuer

Used HE-1000SE is just a guess. Check the market here from time to time.


----------



## Radio81

I hate this hobby sometimes...

I just purchased a Fiio BTR3K and 3.5mm to BT transmitter so will my setup will be:
PS4 > Turtle Beach TAC > BT adapter > BTR3K > X2HR

My plan is to mount the BTR3K to my X2HR headphones. I'll have to spend some time with it to create a clean DIY solution for mount and cabling. This will allow me to go fully wireless and still get surround to the headphones for PS4.  I love the Magni3/Loki combo I've been using for my amp section, but I've been itching to go wireless.


----------



## Radio81

tglodjo said:


> Please post your impressions once you get some time with it. It's not anything I need at the moment, but I always appreciate knowing what options are out there.



For the BT-W3, the BT works just fine and I get decent enough range.  Range seems to be a tad better than the BT-W2 and far less dropouts in general when playing.  No complaints about that part.

The included 3.5mm mic is about what I thought it would be.  It works, but with it being around 3ft or so from your mouth, you have to increase sensitivity to the point where it picks up noise from your surroundings.  Button presses, shifting around in your seat, and even the tv playing in the next room was picked up.  I could see using this temporarily while traveling, but otherwise it's not for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 15, 2020)

Radio81 said:


> I hate this hobby sometimes...
> 
> I just purchased a Fiio BTR3K and 3.5mm to BT transmitter so will my setup will be:
> PS4 > Turtle Beach TAC > BT adapter > BTR3K > X2HR
> ...


Not sure the BT3K will output enough volume for the X2. Honestly would've just got a Mixamp 5.8 for this. A little hissy, but no latency.


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> So right now you're using Super Xfi X3?
> What about RedScape? has anyone tried it yet? it's like $100 without the HeadTracking device.


I only tried Redscape with the head tracking, which is definitely a benefit to positional perception and that "holographic feeling." It is up there with the good DSPs, and I like that you can scale up it's performance by using good DACs and Amps (but on the flip side, you can hurt it's performance by using muddy DACs and Amps).

I think he's still running Redscape as a side business, but I find it very interesting that Ryan Redetzke is back working as a software engineer for Respawn Entertainment. I have high hopes and excitement for the 9th generation of game consoles when it comes to 3D positional audio and designing good headphone mixes... a little cautious because both Microsoft and Sony announced dedicated sound hardware and DSPs for the XBOne and PS4, but there was only a smattering of games that took advantage of it. However, it seems headphone surround is picking up steam and becoming a more mainstream, toted feature, so it seems like the momentum will lead to headphone surround to become common soon. Here's hoping!!!


Unrelated side note: I just got a NVIDIA Shield yesterday, and I'm excited to explore it's possibilities! For something about the size of a Moleskin notepad, it has impressive power for local games, and a great implementation of cloud gaming with GeForce now that surpasses the experience possible with my 3 year old desktop computers. It also supports USB DACs, which I find interesting... it even forced the audio to play through my DualShock 4's headphone jack when I had it wired!

The possibilities for entertainment these days are staggering to me, and I'm really happy to experience them!


----------



## Radio81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Not sure the BT3K will output enough volume for the X2. Honestly would've just got a Mixamp 5.8 for this. A little hissy, but no latency.



I had similar concern, but it worked out.  The BTR3K volume goes up to 32 in the app.  At volume 28-30, it's more than loud enough for gaming, and I don't like quiet.  Anything higher volume is almost uncomfortably loud.  For music priority, I would probably step up to the BTR5 for extra headroom, just from the few tracks I listened to over the weekend.  BTR3K is pretty sweet for gaming though.  I connected the BT transmitter to the output of my Magni 3/Loki combo.  With the Loki, I can still adjust EQ on the fly.  I tried bypassing the Magni/Loki by connecting the 3.5mm BT transmitter directly to the output of the Turtle Beach TAC, but even with Fiio EQ app the BTR3K it was too lean sounding with that config.  BT transmitter and BTR3K are both Apt-X LL capable, and I don't notice any audio lag.

Now I have a setup I can use wireless or wired if needed, and still get full chatmix control from the TB TAC and not be tethered.  I'm pleased with it.

I actually own two Mixamp 5.8s.  One I use in the living room for late night viewing.  The other I still have reserved for PS4 use, but I got tired of having the cable between mixamp and headphone.  The Mixamp 5.8 is one of the most versatile pieces of audio gear I've purchased.  I really wish Astro would have continued updating the product.  Something similar in a much smaller form factor would have been an ideal solution vs. BT for sure.  Same with the Soundblaster E5.  -Great product with excellent app support and great sound, but I wanted something with a small form factor that I could attach to my headphones and not be restricted to fiddling with wires.

This is the BT transmitter I purchased:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WP3DGPB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Mixamp 5.8 I can get about 30ft from and it starts cutting out.  With the BT transmitter & BTR3K I can walk to all corners of the house without it cutting out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I just realized I didn't consider plugging the Mobius via the 3.5mm through a dac out. Since dacs output at line level, it'd be much more ideal than plugging in the Mobius through a headphone jack on an amp or otherwise.

I mean, this is if you wanna use the Mobius with a ps4 or other device that won't take advantage of its USB capabilities. So perhaps I'll use the G6 to test it out, since the G6 has a 3.5mm line out  I do have a 3.5mm to RCA as well if I use a DAC with RCA out.

This will open up more versatility for the Mobius.


----------



## Evshrug

I suppose... as long as everyone here keeps in mind that the Mobius converts analog to digital, runs it through a DSP (even if you turn off the 3D sound), an internal DAC, then an internal AMP anyway.

A pure digital connection will mean less conversions, but if you're just looking to add the G6's surround DSP effects and use the Mobius in stereo mode, then you can do that. At that point, the Mobius is still a planar headphone with volume controls on the ear cup.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Evshrug said:


> I suppose... as long as everyone here keeps in mind that the Mobius converts analog to digital, runs it through a DSP (even if you turn off the 3D sound), an internal DAC, then an internal AMP anyway.
> 
> A pure digital connection will mean less conversions, but if you're just looking to add the G6's surround DSP effects and use the Mobius in stereo mode, then you can do that. At that point, the Mobius is still a planar headphone with volume controls on the ear cup.


Yeah it's what I'd call a last resort if there's no other viable way to use the Mobius. Consoles won't take advantage of its usb function, and you DON'T wanna game through its bluetooth. Leaving just the 3.5mm function.


----------



## technoderam

DT 990 Pro 250 ohms  vs DT 990 Premium headphones  250ohms 


Hey folks
I need a good advice.
I have to choice between Dt 990 Pro or premium >?>?. Not sure which to go for.
I gonna get a Azuentech soundcard to.
Seeing the forums seems like Dt990 pro ohms  is better than premium  250 ohms . But is it really "Better" ?


the dt990 pro 250 ohms  have better bass and better clear mids and sound from DT 990 Premium 250 ohms  ??

So people what's your choice?
Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

technoderam said:


> DT 990 Pro 250 ohms  vs DT 990 Premium headphones  250-ohms Hey folks I need a good advice.
> I have to choice between Dt 990 Pro or premium >?>?. Not sure which to go for.
> I gonna get a Auzentech sound card to.
> Seeing the forums seems like Dt990 pro ohms  is better than premium  250 ohms . But is it really "Better" ?
> ...


I would try and talk you into the Soundmagic HP200 open headphones.


----------



## technoderam (Aug 19, 2020)

PurpleAngel said:


> I would try and talk you into the Soundmagic HP200 open headphones.




i am interesting only in these  DT 990 Pro 250 ohms vs DT 990 Premium headphones 250ohms

for  this i am asking  the  DT 990 Pro 250 ohms  have  better bass ???  and sounds better from  the  DT 990 Premium headphones 250ohms

can someone confirm the difference  between  these 2??  in terms of bass, soundstage, mids,  highs  ,,   between  DT 990 Pro 250 ohms vs DT 990 Premium headphones 250ohms ?

i have read  that the premium  have better sounstage    from  the  dt990 pros

and also  that the pros  have  Boosted high(s) and low(s)  which is not good..

so  are  the a lot differences between  these  2?


----------



## Chastity

technoderam said:


> can someone confirm the difference  between  these 2??  in terms of bass, soundstage, mids,  highs  ,,   between  DT 990 Pro 250 ohms vs DT 990 Premium headphones 250ohms ?


I had the DT-990 Pro 250, for 2 weeks.  I couldn't stand them.  Very metallic treble.  Made me want to stab my ears with an ice pick..  I understand the Premiums are tuned better.

Got rid of them, and bought the DT-1990 Pro.  Much better.


----------



## technoderam (Aug 19, 2020)

what  you mean  the  the    DT-990 Pro 250, that  arent   better  from dt990 premium??

yes  but  the  metallic treble.  is  good  for edm///



Chastity said:


> I had the DT-990 Pro 250, for 2 weeks.  I couldn't stand them.  Very metallic treble.  Made me want to stab my ears with an ice pick..  I understand the Premiums are tuned better.
> 
> Got rid of them, and bought the DT-1990 Pro.  Much better.



the  DT-990 Pro 250, has  alot of bass  from   the premium version??



Chastity said:


> I had the DT-990 Pro 250, for 2 weeks.  I couldn't stand them.  Very metallic treble.  Made me want to stab my ears with an ice pick..  I understand the Premiums are tuned better.
> 
> Got rid of them, and bought the DT-1990 Pro.  Much better.



can someone confirm the difference between these 2?? in terms of bass, soundstage, mids, highs ,, between DT 990 Pro 250 ohms vs DT 990 Premium headphones 250ohms ?

i have read that the premium have better sounstage from the dt990 pros

and also that the  dt  990 pro 250  ohms  have Boosted high(s) and low(s) which is not good.. from  the premium  version   is is  true/?

so are the a lot differences between these 2?


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 21, 2020)

technoderam said:


> DT 990 Pro 250 ohms  vs DT 990 Premium headphones  250ohms
> 
> 
> Hey folks
> ...


We need to get all of your fellow greek nationals looking for "the best" together! Just to caution you, this thread has seen a person with a similar profile as yours, coming back every few weeks with different usernames, who comes in without reading the review on the first page that already answers their questions, and demands a personalized recommendation for several days. Eventually, they negate all advice shared with them, and continue copy/paste spamming their question until they are basically yelled at to leave. Just to warn you about the history. People will still kindly share their experience and advice, but I wouldn't expect other people to go above and beyond and do research for you.

With that said, the drivers are of equal quality among all the different Ω (ohms) variations, and pro or premium. Both of them have boosted highs and lows (what is commonly referred to as a v-shaped sound signature), so does the DT 1990. Any small differences, in a perfect environment with ideal gear to drive them, would be down to sample variation.

The benefit of higher Ω is that the headphones can dampen and stabilize an amplifier's output, and the benefit of lower Ω is that they require less power to drive well. So, the choice is really down to what amp you have. Do you have a powerful but less stable amp with a high output resistance, like a home theater receiver or musician's studio mixing board? Then a higher Ω headphone would be better suited. Do you want to use a portable amp, smaller and less powerful? Higher Ω headphone. 150-250 Ω headphones are like the sweet spot in the middle, and so they're the default choice if you don't really know. By the way, there are powerful amps with great control and low resistance (THX 789, Cavalli Liquid Platinum, etc), and with those it doesn't matter what Ω your headphone is, and there are plenty of small amps that are crap and still can't drive 80 Ω headphones well. Sound cards like the Azuentech are just "ok," though they're not commonly chosen by experienced enthusiasts so you won't see many people here who are familiar with the output power capabilities of that card.

Pro vs Premium? Pro is for musicians and audio professionals, with tighter clamping force to stay on their heads and coiled cables to prevent slack and kinks.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 19, 2020)

The 990 pro sounds different from the premium mainly due to the clamping force forcing the drivers closer to the ear. Otherwise they're the same driver, and should sound similar.

Haven't heard the 1990. Would love to, to see how Beyer has improved on the 990s. If they literally had the same sound balance but much less peak in the treble, it'd be such a damn good headphone.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The 990 pro sounds different from the premium mainly due to the clamping force forcing the drivers closer to the ear. Otherwise they're the same driver, and should sound similar.
> 
> Haven't heard the 1990. Would love to, to see how Beyer has improved on the 990s. If they literally had the same sound balance but much less peak in the treble, it'd be such a damn good headphone.


Right, so as long as the driver is the same distance from the ear (or the Premium's pads have about 3 month's wear on them so they "sink" in a bit more), they sound the same (within mnfr tolerances). FYI, the 1990 is a 990 with less distressed treble and more refinements all around, a small but very significant change.

@technoderam In case you're having trouble finding Mad Lust Envy's Premium and Pro DT990 review, here's the same review with everything collapsed under categories: https://www.head-fi.org/articles/mad-lust-envys-headphone-gaming-guide-page-3.18935/
You would want to click the blue "spoiler: now we're getting to the good stuff" button under the $150-$300 price tier (US dollar), and then click the spoiler tag for the DT990 review. It's fairly long, and Mad Lust Envy has owned all of the DT990 variants at different times, and even compared them all side by side at home.


----------



## technoderam (Aug 19, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The 990 pro sounds different from the premium mainly due to the clamping force forcing the drivers closer to the ear. Otherwise they're the same driver, and should sound similar.
> 
> Haven't heard the 1990. Would love to, to see how Beyer has improved on the 990s. If they literally had the same sound balance but much less peak in the treble, it'd be such a damn good headphone.





so  the  dt990 pro   have better bass  , souundstage  ,,, better  mids , highs and  clear  sound    from the  dt990 premium?

because i have heard  that the  990 pro  have  more bass from  the premium/./.


----------



## Evshrug

technoderam said:


> so  the  dt990 pro   have better bass  , souundstage  ,,, better  mids and  clear  sound    from the  dt990 premium?
> 
> because i have heard  that the  990 pro  have  more bass from  the premium/./.


Is that what he wrote?
No.
He said the clamp force is higher, so the Pro sounds like the premium if you push the ear cups harder against your ears.


----------



## technoderam

Evshrug said:


> Is that what he wrote?
> No.
> He said the clamp force is higher, so the Pro sounds like the premium if you push the ear cups harder against your ears.


she said  tha the pro sounds different   from  the premium..

i am asking  the pro has better  sound and bass  from premium??

this i am asking

which are better  the  pros or  the premium?  this i am asking


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 20, 2020)

If you're going for a 990, don't buy one based on where it's premium or pro. They're the same headphone barring miniscule changes from the clamp.

Get the ohm model based on what you own. You have a beefy desktop amp, get a 600ohm, for a portable amp, get the 32ohm. Got something in between, get the 250ohm or the Pro 250ohm.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 20, 2020)

By the way, my fellow Pittsburgh buddy Craig (I think you met him!) got a Glenn last year, it definitely is a fiiiiiiiine amp! I miss CanJams! How have you been?


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> By the way, my buddy Craig (I think you met him!) got a Glenn last year, it definitely is a fiiiiiiiine amp! I miss CanJams! How have you been?


Craig is hard to miss... especially if you look up  
I got 2 Glenn amps (the very popular OTL and the much less popular EL3N with a lot of customization in mine)
Both amps are most excellent!    

I miss CanJams, too.  I doubt SoCal will happen in Dec. (but still hoping...)


----------



## Chastity (Aug 20, 2020)

Evshrug said:


> FYI, the 1990 is a 990 with less distressed treble and more refinements all around, a small but very significant change.


This is just plain inaccurate.  They do NOT have similar sound signatures.  The DT-1990 make the DT-990 sound like a toy.  Please don't comment on gear you never have heard recently or owned.  I've owned both.  Especially since the DT-1990 has 2 sets of pads with totally different tunings.  The B pads are V-shaped, the A pads are left-to right sloped.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 21, 2020)

Chastity said:


> This is just plain inaccurate.  They do NOT have similar sound signatures.  The DT-1990 make the DT-990 sound like a toy.  Please don't comment on gear you never have heard recently or owned.  I've owned both.  Especially since the DT-1990 has 2 sets of pads with totally different tunings.  The B pads are V-shaped, the A pads are left-to right sloped.



Both headphones are quite V-shaped, and more similar to eachother than a headphone from another line or brand. V-shaped isn't necessarily bad... many people find it "lively" and "exciting." "Flat" is an elusive target anyway. I would agree that the DT1990 change is a marked performance improvement over the DT 990. I admit I only tried the DT1990 with one pair of its velour stock pads (perhaps it was the pair Beyer calls “deliberately analytical,” it was the only one in the case Dekoni shipped me), and Dekoni’s pads, but they let me borrow it in 2019 and I had it in my house until a month ago. I would still count that as recent enough to feel confident in my findings. It was also consistent with what I heard at a few CanJams and my local HiFi store (which is usually empty or nearly so). I’m also quite confident in my ability to compare and analyze headphones, with 12 years of experience and even if I only have 15 different headphones and IEMs within arms reach at this very second.





Keep in mind, this is a "Raw Data" graph, uncompensated... most people would have a sensitivity to mids that would make it sound less v-shaped than it would appear in this graph. Furthermore, the measurement head used on this rig has an "averaged" population ear canal size and kind of a simplified shape (read Jude's excellent post highlighted on Head-Fi's front page for some excellent info on how measurements science is evolving), and a larger ear canal on a person would shift the resonance frequency lower, meaning that some frequency on the upper mids might seem even more emphasized and some of the lower treble seem less emphasized. But, even with that said, the treble and bass is still going to have more SPL quantity over the midrange for the average person.

Whether you like or prefer a headphone, that’s totally your perspective and I’ll leave that to you. It may even sound balanced to your ear physiology, that’s totally possible. Because of that, I try to leave what I like out of it, but when one headphone is more comfortable to listen to for an extended period of time... it probably wouldn’t surprise you if I did outright say what I preferred. I certainly don’t mean to make you feel like I’m attacking the headphones you have in your avatar.


----------



## Chastity

@Evshrug Just to point out, the "stock" pads in that graph is the B pads.  The mids are not recessed as with the B pads, and the treble is tuned a bit better, less sibilant.  Using that chart, it would suggest I get a +8dB boost in subbass, and +5 dB bass boost using the Hybrids.  I think the actual boost isn't as big as that.    It is, however noticable, and can even be too much with a really warm tube, like the Voshkod 61JP-EV.  (This tube works better with the Elite Velour pads.  The GE JAN 5654W pair better with the Elite Hybrids)


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 21, 2020)

Chastity said:


> @Evshrug Just to point out, the "stock" pads in that graph is the B pads.  The mids are not recessed as with the B pads, and the treble is tuned a bit better, less sibilant.  Using that chart, it would suggest I get a +8dB boost in subbass, and +5 dB bass boost using the Hybrids.  I think the actual boost isn't as big as that.    It is, however noticable, and can even be too much with a really warm tube, like the Voshkod 61JP-EV.  (This tube works better with the Elite Velour pads.  The GE JAN 5654W pair better with the Elite Hybrids)


Good to know! So, for my own reference, are the "B Pads" the ones that Beyer's website refers to as their "well balanced sound" or "deliberately analytical sound?"
Nice tubes by the way! I have a GE JAN 6DJ8, and a Voshkod 6N23P (you know, the Cyrillic character that looks like an "N"). They're not the same models, but I know they make/made good stuff.


----------



## jonathan c

Evshrug said:


> By the way, my fellow Pittsburgh buddy Craig (I think you met him!) got a Glenn last year, it definitely is a fiiiiiiiine amp! I miss CanJams! How have you been?





jonathan c said:


> What a comprehensive review! Well done! The 6XX is, to me, a headphone that “punches above its weight (class)”. I have been rotating it for listening among Audeze LCD-X, Rosson Audio RAD-0 and Meze Empyrean. The 6XX carries itself really well in the rotation. As you alluded to, the 6XX balance, tone, and detail allows for immense musical enjoyment. The 6XX also benefits from and is revealing enough for gear such as the LehmannAudio SE Linear and the Linear Tube Audio MZ3 headphone amplifiers. An unusual pairing, one might think, but it is a testament to the 6XX’s capabilities.


6XX continued: I have been using the Arctic Cables Ion Series with the 6XX. This cable really suits the 6XX - bass retrieval is deeper and without bloat, the soundstage is wider without blurring specificity, and the overall presentation is airier.


----------



## Chastity

Evshrug said:


> Good to know! So, for my own reference, are the "B Pads" the ones that Beyer's website refers to as their "well balanced sound" or "deliberately analytical sound?"
> Nice tubes by the way! I have a GE JAN 6DJ8, and a Voshkod 6N23P (you know, the Cyrillic character that looks like an "N"). They're not the same models, but I know they make/made good stuff.


A pads are Analytical, B pads are Balanced (these are installed by default when new)


----------



## danterikxx

is K702 + HD 599 + SMSL M3 good enough for gaming, or can i get something *significantly better* for around 300 bucks?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 24, 2020)

I dunno why'd you get both a 599 and K702...

For $300, there's something upcoming I can't talk about yet that is going to cost less than that and would probably be my new recommendation. You'll have to wait around a month or so though for more info.

For right now, my personal choice if I had absolutely nothing on hand would be a Fidelio X2 + a Vmoda Boompro mic for all my needs.


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I dunno why'd you get both a 599 and K702...
> 
> For $300, there's something upcoming I can't talk about yet that is going to cost less than that and would probably be my new recommendation. You'll have to wait around a month or so though for more info.
> 
> For right now, my personal choice if I had absolutely nothing on hand would be a Fidelio X2 + a Vmoda Boompro mic for all my needs.




oh, what i posted above is what i have currently

Bought the 599s first, then K702 for better soundstage. Gave a look at 600s, 650s, but dunno if it's worth it for 90% gaming and 10% music. (i'm in Europe, so importing from Massdrop is pointless due to VAT and other fees)

can you give a hint of what it is? at least the brand? i bet it's the X3 or SHP 9600


----------



## tglodjo

Mad Lust Envy said:


> For $300, there's something upcoming I can't talk about yet that is going to cost less than that and would probably be my new recommendation. You'll have to wait around a month or so though for more info.


----------



## Radio81

I'm going to guess the Audeze Penrose


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> I'm going to guess the Audeze Penrose



It's wireless, so i kinda doubt that


----------



## Evshrug

Who knows what Mad is thinking about next? What @danterikxx already has are legendary for gaming with right now though 

I would suggest he invests a little think time to what he would like to see improved about his current setup. Both headphones have room to benefit from upgrading the signal chain. Has he explored some DSP yet (like a variant of surround that works for him), an amp that unlocks snappy bass and crystalizes the highs, or maybe a DAC that sounds just that much more natural and organic? Those are all components that could individually cost up to $300, providing benefits now and setting him up for any future headphone purchases he might make.

You know the old saying: a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 24, 2020)

I'm under


Radio81 said:


> I'm going to guess the Audeze Penrose


I already said that was coming. This is something else.

I put wireless things in their own category, and doesn't fare worse or better than the main category of having your own dac/amp, etc. More traditional setup.

Like, I'm not going to tell you to get a wireless headphone over a wired one, or vice versa. To me, they're apples to oranges, and both can be worth having.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> Who knows what Mad is thinking about next? What @danterikxx already has are legendary for gaming with right now though
> 
> I would suggest he invests a little think time to what he would like to see improved about his current setup. Both headphones have room to benefit from upgrading the signal chain. Has he explored some DSP yet (like a variant of surround that works for him), an amp that unlocks snappy bass and crystalizes the highs, or maybe a DAC that sounds just that much more natural and organic? Those are all components that could individually cost up to $300, providing benefits now and setting him up for any future headphone purchases he might make.
> 
> You know the old saying: a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!



Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that? 

i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here


----------



## Chastity

danterikxx said:


> Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that?
> 
> i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here


Output power, 24 mW: 300 ohm at THD 0.001% 

I think you are due for a DAC/amp    I was thinking something like the iFi Zen DAC for $150 USD if you are looking for an all-in-one.  Otherwise, you have the $200 stacks from Schiit or JDS Labs.  Or you can consider as well adding a tube buffer preamp, or get something like the Vali / Little Dot's


----------



## danterikxx

Chastity said:


> Output power, 24 mW: 300 ohm at THD 0.001%
> 
> I think you are due for a DAC/amp    I was thinking something like the iFi Zen DAC for $150 USD if you are looking for an all-in-one.  Otherwise, you have the $200 stacks from Schiit or JDS Labs.  Or you can consider as well adding a tube buffer preamp, or get something like the Vali / Little Dot's



i have the SMSL M3 and it works fine so far. It could use more power for the K702 tho. 

the thing is that i might need a dac/amp with optical. That's what i used on my PS4. Dunno if the PS5 will have one or not

depending on that, i might choose something between the iFi Zen or the FiiO K5 Pro. What do you think of this one?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> For $300, there's something upcoming I can't talk about yet that is going to cost less than that and would probably be my new recommendation. You'll have to wait around a month or so though for more info.



Looking forward to finding out what this is.  I'm hoping/betting on a new Epos Gaming or Beyerdynamic headset solution just in time for next gen consoles.  If its the latter I'm praying for a removable cable


----------



## Evshrug

danterikxx said:


> Bu DSP with suround you mean some sort of 7.1 and all that?
> 
> i'm all open to suggestions. you guys are the experts here


Yes, a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) can do things like headphone surround, or also equalization and decoding of signals like Dolby Atmos or DSD. Sometimes you can also use them to control the “mix” of simultaneous inputs, like audio from Optical and USB at the same time. So, like an audio computer (sometimes just software on a PC), a DSP can do many things.

Those times I heard a Smyth Realizer (a very expensive DSP) emulating a theater room were impressive: the sense of direction was precise, but equally impressive was how it made the headphones sound just like the speakers they were using in the room for demo... not similar, but so close that they had the speakers set to switch off when the unit sensed you put the headphones on or off, and the switch was seamless for me – but not for everyone else in the room who suddenly stopped hearing the speakers!

I’m not saying you need to buy a full-fledgedhone theater emulator like that (last I heard the US price was $4000), but there are sound cards and external DSPs from companies like I covered on my YouTube channel (Evshrug) and my “If I Knew Then...” head-fi thread linked in my signature. I’ve bought some for $20, $70, $100, $120, up to $300, with some of them being complete DSP/DAC/amp solutions, and some of them having more power for more demanding applications.

I already described briefly what benefits can come from an upgraded amp (tighter, richer bass with more deep notes, snappier highs that can “sparkle” with all the metaphorical precision of a cut gemstone, and an overall improvement in refinement and control) and an upgraded DAC (more natural, organic sound that is more engaging and lively to listen to, rather than digitized and dulled). You don’t have to spend as much as me, but every step has been an incremental improvement.

As my posting and gear history will show, I currently use a Sennheiser HDV 820 as my DAC/Amp and a Smyth Realiser A16 as my DSP (I was a Kickstarter early bird), but before that I had a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp, a custom tube hybrid amp, Fostex HP-A4 amp/DAC, Chord Mojo DAC, Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC, Sennheiser GSX1000, Creative X7 DSP/DAC/Amp, Creative Omni 5.1, Creative Recon3D USB, and a Turtle Beach DSS and DSS2.Those might give you some ideas, but there are literally sooo many great options including the most popular offerings and beyond.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> Yes, a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) can do things like headphone surround, or also equalization and decoding of signals like Dolby Atmos or DSD. Sometimes you can also use them to control the “mix” of simultaneous inputs, like audio from Optical and USB at the same time. So, like an audio computer (sometimes just software on a PC), a DSP can do many things.
> 
> Those times I heard a Smyth Realizer (a very expensive DSP) emulating a theater room were impressive: the sense of direction was precise, but equally impressive was how it made the headphones sound just like the speakers they were using in the room for demo... not similar, but so close that they had the speakers set to switch off when the unit sensed you put the headphones on or off, and the switch was seamless for me – but not for everyone else in the room who suddenly stopped hearing the speakers!
> 
> ...




That was a nice, rich and thoughtful explanation

So, in your opinion, i'm good what i got in terms of headphones for gaming, and should start looking for better complementary gear?

Also, saw you channel (subscribed btw) and saw that you also game on PS4. What do you used for that ( it's where i play. or used to play, since i sold it to buy the PS5)?

Apparently the PS5 will have a 3D Audio Tempest engine out of the box. Very excited to try that as well.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 25, 2020)

Hey, thanks for the subscription!!! I saw! I'm actually feeling motivated to make a go of regular videos about audio again... once I got used to talking about that sort of thing (and invested all this TIME in learning!), I really started to miss it when not doing it. Expect at least a video this week.

There are a few side-grades within your price range when it comes to headphones, but both the HD 598/599 and the AKG are elite-tier for soundstage size with gaming, and yeah I think a DSP with surround will open your _ears_ to a significantly different and more immersive experience. A DSP with an optical input is the most practical choice for playing on consoles... few sound devices with headphone surround have HDMI passthrough (might be hard to find a big old Audio Video Receiver/AVR with headphone surround... Yamaha may still be including Silent Cinema with their AVRs, but it wasn't very impressive), and licensed Playstation USB devices with surround that work with your headphones are rare, so Optical is preferred. I don't have complaints about the DSPs I listed in my ownership history. I feel pretty future-proofed with my Smyth Realizer A16, but you might be best off waiting until the PS5 actually releases, see if it still has optical or if you can get Tempest 3D headphone audio out through USB, or if Sony makes it harder to use 3rd party audio gear (Sony at least gave the option of stereo USB audio with the PS4, Xbox One did not).

I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well... but it only happened with a few select titles (like DICE and Naughty Dog games) and those used software DSP's programmed into the game. PSVR has full 3D surround, and it's glorious! The HD 500 series headphones are easier to drive in that situation than a K702, because the DAC/Amp is built into the PSVR's cable/headset and a big amp would be pretty heavy to wear.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> Hey, thanks for the subscription!!! I'm actually feeling motivated to make a go of regular videos about audio again... once I got used to talking about that sort of thing (and invested all this TIME in learning!), I really started to miss it when not doing it. Expect at least a video this week.
> 
> There are a few side-grades within your price range when it comes to headphones, but both the HD 598/599 and the AKG are elite-tier for soundstage size with gaming, and yeah I think a DSP with surround will open your _ears_ to a significantly different and more immersive experience. A DSP with an optical input is the most practical choice for playing on consoles... few sound devices with headphone surround have HDMI passthrough (might be hard to find a big old Audio Video Receiver/AVR with headphone surround... Yamaha may still be including Silent Cinema with their AVRs, but it wasn't very impressive), and licensed Playstation USB devices with surround that work with your headphones are rare, so Optical is preferred. I don't have complaints about the DSPs I listed in my ownership history. I feel pretty future-proofed with my Smyth Realizer A16, but you might be best off waiting until the PS5 actually releases, see if it still has optical or if you can get Tempest 3D headphone audio out through USB, or if Sony makes it harder to use 3rd party audio gear (Sony at least gave the option of stereo USB audio with the PS4, Xbox One did not).
> 
> I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well... but it only happened with a few select titles (like DICE and Naughty Dog games) and those used software DSP's programmed into the game. PSVR has full 3D surround, and it's glorious! The HD 500 series headphones are easier to drive in that situation than a K702, because the DAC/Amp is built into the PSVR's cable/headset and a big amp would be pretty heavy to wear.



oh i know about the optical vs USB situation on consoles. Tried to use it with USB and....it didn't go so well. So, i only use optical, and USB on PC with the SMSL M3

Sony seems commited to implement the 3D audio for real this time around, and not just on their Naughy Dog games.Had an amazing experience with the AKG playing The Last of Us Part II, even without 3D, because that was exclusive to their Platinum Wireless headset

https://www.pushsquare.com/guides/ps5-3d-audio-what-is-playstation-5s-tempest-engine

I hope they still keep the Optical input. It's gone on the new Xbox Series X. It would be messed up if they remove it and still dont add USB support

As for sidegrades, could those be in the line of 600/6XX/58X or 4XX? Not into Beyers, because the non detachable cable is a big turn-off for me

My dream headphone is the one you use, ehehe. 800s would be amazing for my particular application


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> I am also excited to see if Sony and Microsoft truly commit to Headphone Surround this generation! They promised it last generation as well...


I am curious:
Why do you care, since you have the Smyth Realiser anyhow? Any standard 5.1 or 7.1 would just work great with it. Right?
(as a side note, I still kick myself for not joining the KS early on... $2K seemed a lot back then, and now they're $4K )


----------



## Radio81

I still can't believe we haven't seen the back panel of the PS5.  I think a lot of us are waiting to see if it has optical or not.  I'm going to bet it doesn't.  I'm highly optimistic in doing so the PS5 will send processed surround audio via USB.  If that's the case, then some of my DSP's that are stereo only on PS4 should be capable of surround on PS5.  Things like my Creative E5 & G5, as well as my Logitech G533 headset should all be capable of surround audio on PS5.

That's just my speculation.  Hopefully we will know more about the PS5 soon.


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> I still can't believe we haven't seen the back panel of the PS5.  I think a lot of us are waiting to see if it has optical or not.  I'm going to bet it doesn't.  I'm highly optimistic in doing so the PS5 will send processed surround audio via USB.  If that's the case, then some of my DSP's that are stereo only on PS4 should be capable of surround on PS5.  Things like my Creative E5 & G5, as well as my Logitech G533 headset should all be capable of surround audio on PS5.
> 
> That's just my speculation.  Hopefully we will know more about the PS5 soon.




I know right?

i've got some decisions on stand-by because of that

but i'm optimistic too, because they want every headphone to have their 3D sound processing, and not just the Playstation headsets


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## Evshrug (Aug 25, 2020)

It would be very generous if the console would process the surround for us, and make a binaural stereo mix before sending that out through USB Audio. For the last two generations, Xbox and PlayStation have charged a license royalty per-unit-sold to have full USB audio support. Most 3rd parties couldn’t price a headphone affordable enough for consumers to consider AND pay this license, so we ended up in this chicken-and-the-egg situation where people couldn’t easily get high-quality headphone surround, so they pass it off as an unnecessary gimmick, and so manufacturers don’t see a demand for it. 🔁

At least Sony supported generic 2.0 Audio out through USB (and input from Microphones), and as always I have hope for an even better situation in the next generation. “IF” 7.1 (which is 2D) or object-based Audio (3D) support becomes available over USB, I highly recommend everyone stock up on the cheap but quality Belkin Gold Series USB A to B cable, short as possible for your setup.




Zachik said:


> I am curious:
> Why do you care, since you have the Smyth Realiser anyhow? Any standard 5.1 or 7.1 would just work great with it. Right?
> (as a side note, I still kick myself for not joining the KS early on... $2K seemed a lot back then, and now they're $4K )


Well...
A couple reasons, and the first one might seem funny. I should make a video.

But yeah, the PS4 supports LPCM 7.1 (no need to bitstream Dolby or DTS), and since that’s the max that most games support right now, it’s good. But HEIGHT channels, man!

(I backed it within the first 20 minutes, so I got the super early bird price).


----------



## danterikxx

wh


Evshrug said:


> Well...
> A couple reasons, and the first one might seem funny. I should make a video.
> 
> But yeah, the PS4 supports LPCM 7.1 (no need to bitstream Dolby or DTS), and since that’s the max that most games support right now, it’s good. But HEIGHT channels, man!
> ...



what setup do you use on PS4?


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 25, 2020)

danterikxx said:


> What setup do you use on PS4?


I have a PS4 Pro, with HDMI going into my Smyth Realiser A16, which has optical out going to my Sennheiser HDV 820 (a DAC/amp combo), with a pure silver 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced cable going to my HD 800. It’s heavenly! Sometimes I change things up with a Sennheiser HD 660S plugged straight into the Realiser, or PS4 Pro > Optical > Turtle Beach DSS2 > AKG K612. I had Creative products before, but I sold them in anticipation of the Smyth Realiser coming out a year after the Kickstarter...

That is without a doubt an expensive setup, and your eyes might bug out if you knew how little money I make to afford such things. Very niché to have such specialized equipment! But I usually just bought one piece a year, and it’s been a long time to build up that setup.

I have found the mic built into the PlayStation Camera is actually pretty good if you’re at typical webcam distance. As a bonus, it leaves the USB ports free! In a couch/TV situation, I would probably use a cheap lapel mic or a headset with built-in mic.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> I have a PS4 Pro, with HDMI going into my Smyth Realiser A16, which has optical out going to my Sennheiser HDV 820 (a DAC/amp combo), with a pure silver 4.4mm Pentaconn balanced cable going to my HD 800. It’s heavenly! Sometimes I change things up with a Sennheiser HD 660S plugged straight into the Realiser, or PS4 Pro > Optical > Turtle Beach DSS2 > AKG K612. I had Creative products before, but I sold them in anticipation of the Smyth Realiser coming out a year after the Kickstarter...
> 
> That is without a doubt an expensive setup, and your eyes might bug out if you knew how little money I make to afford such things. Very niché to have such specialized equipment! But I usually just bought one piece a year, and it’s been a long time to build up that setup.
> 
> I have found the mic built into the PlayStation Camera is actually pretty good if you’re at typical webcam distance. As a bonus, it leaves the USB ports free!



strange of you to change from something so expensive to something so "cheap" like the DSS2 + AKG K612. How's the former in terms of performance, especially ythe DSS2?

sorry if i ask so many questions, but i've only started this around May or something. 

is the 660s (or 600) a big upgrade over the K702(with brainwavz pads) or 599?


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> (I backed it within the first 20 minutes, so I got the super early bird price).


Smart (and very patient) man!


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 25, 2020)

danterikxx said:


> strange of you to change from something so expensive to something so "cheap" like the DSS2 + AKG K612. How's the former in terms of performance, especially ythe DSS2?
> 
> sorry if i ask so many questions, but i've only started this around May or something.
> 
> is the 660s (or 600) a big upgrade over the K702(with brainwavz pads) or 599?


Oh, my best setup is noticeably better, but sometimes I just like to remind myself where I started and what other people will usually hear.

The HD 600 is basically just as proficient as an HD 6XX/HD 650, maybe Mad can give you some comments (based on his reviews and experience) on how the HD 6XX compares with the classic trio (HD650, K702, and DT 990). They each have their strengths and trade-offs, but the only opinion I am comfortable sharing between the classic trio is that you should chose based on what sound tuning description appeals to you the most. In addition to all the headphones reviewed on the first post of this thread, Mad Lust Envy also has a YouTube channel, and he wrote some great reviews for headphoneguru.com

The HD 660S has a clearer attack and more energetic sound than the HD 650 and HD 600, though the perception of soundstage depth and size is similar.  I often say the HD 660S is the ideal midway point between the HD 650 and HD 800S: it has a sense of agility halfway between the HD 650 and HD 800, while keeping much of the HD 650/600’s midbass weight. The HD 660’s treble response is halfway between the HD 600’s moderate Brightness and the HD 650’s smoothness (which is better for your hearing for long-term listening).

I should make a video on this... but tonight will be a video about “Why I quit doing headphone reviews.” After I eat dinner and clear my table, lol.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> Oh, my best setup is noticeably better, but sometimes I just like to remind myself where I started and what other people will usually hear.
> 
> The HD 600 is basically just as proficient as an HD 6XX/HD 650, maybe Mad can give you some comments (based on his reviews and experience) on how the HD 6XX compares with the classic trio (HD650, K702, and DT 990). They each have their strengths and trade-offs, but the only opinion I am comfortable sharing between the classic trio is that you should chose based on what sound tuning description appeals to you the most. In addition to all the headphones reviewed on the first post of this thread, Mad Lust Envy also has a YouTube channel, and he wrote some great reviews for headphoneguru.com
> 
> ...




what i like is detail and clarity in all ranges (treble, mids, bass) and a sense of openness and air. i want to hear every detail in my games, but want it to be gentle and not fatinguing

also worth mentioning that i'm not a fan of bassy or very warm headphones. It sounds closed or muddy to my ears, like i'm missing out on the details 

maybe that explains why i prefer the K702 for games, and the 599 for music


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 25, 2020)

Overemphasizing the bass often leads to muddiness, and bleeding over the midrange. Sometimes those sharp “dips” you might see on a headphone graph are actually designed to help separate the bass and lows, and it’s a good trick to keep an eye out for in closed headphones to reduce that stuffy muddy sound (right around 100 Hz or so).

Detail and extra treble emphasis aren’t necessarily tied together... a headphone can be just as detailed even if it isn’t highlighting the upper mids or treble (HD 650 is a case in point).The HD 650 is quite high resolution (and produces frequencies well beyond our science to accurately measure/graph them and beyond our range of hearing), and when amplified with enough power and low enough distortion it can keep sounds impressively separated from eachother.

However, with it’s transducers (speakers) aimed  “direct to canal” and it’s intimate sound NOT tuned to sound a bit distant, I would not call the HD 6XX the soundstage size champion for its price range. It’s a different objective... the HD 650/600 are more like nearfield studio monitors rather than a home theater/HiFi setup that others are tuned like. Soundstage size and “sounding like speakers!” is a somewhat complicated topic, involving how both ears hear each speaker, but slightly different versions due to the sound being changed by how your body blocks some of it (occlusion) and reflections from the room and your ear... suffice to say that processing can add most of that to the tuning, but whether drivers are angled or direct also has an effect on natural soundstage or details focused.

With the HD 599’s angled drivers and v-shaped sound emphasis (a bit extra bass and treble, for a sound we’re more used to listening to music with), I can understand that HD 599 sounding more “speaker like” and being your music preference.

I’m stalling a bit. I’m clearing off the table, but I had meant to put up a camera behind me, over my shoulder, but I’m having trouble finding my tripod head. And honestly, I’m a bit nervous, lol.


----------



## danterikxx

may i? @Evshrug 

i think this deserves a share

not too bad for someone who was stalling yestrday


----------



## danterikxx

Ordered a pair of microsuede Brainwavz pads for my K702

Have the velour ones (also from Brainwavz) but they collect a lot of dust and hair, and it irritates my beard. It's very hard to clean too.  Don't know what kind of material they use, but it's nowhere near as good as the one on my Senns

Hopefully the microsuede is better and doesn't reduce the soundstage


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 27, 2020)

I'm gonna logically assume it'll affect the sound more than the Anniversary pads affected the K702. It's gonna add a lot more bass, and warmen up the sound a considerable bit.

Pads are the easiest way to drastically change the sound of a headphone without resorting to EQ.

If you wanna keep it as true to the original, I would recommend sticking to stock pads, or maybe getting the Dekoni elite velour, which doesn't seem to affect the sound as much judging by the graphs.

Pad swapping can be a futile endeavor at times, because if your aim is to keep it as close to the original sound, you're almost always gonna have to use the same exact materials. Any deviation results in massive differences.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll post this here as well, since this is near and dear to my heart...



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rabbitandbearstudios/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes

Eiyuden Chronicle is a spiritual successor of Suikoden, with the original director as well as many Suikoden devs.

The last 48 hours of the kickstarter are imminent, and so far as of this post has made over 4 million, and is the 6th most funded video game on the site.

If you love Suikoden, JRPGs, or just straight up 90s style rpgs with 2d sprites for the characters, in a beautiful 3d rendered world (ala Octopath and the like), PLEASE CONSIDER BACKING THIS.

Suikoden II is my fave game of all time, and this game is leaning heavily on that game in particular.


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm gonna logically assume it'll affect the sound more than the Anniversary pads affected the K702. It's gonna add a lot more bass, and warmen up the sound a considerable bit.
> 
> Pads are the easiest way to drastically change the sound of a headphone without resorting to EQ.
> 
> ...



No way i'll be using the stock pads again. They're terrible in terms of comfort

But even with the Brainwavz velours they're still much colder and more analytical than the 599.  Have you tried the Annies im comparison with the stock 702?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes. The Annies were quite a bit warmer with more bass, and less clarity/soundstage than the 702. With suede pads, that'll put them squarely towards warms and bassy. I mean the Dekoni graphs showed a wild swing when going to pads that seal more. The suede pads basically function like leather pads. A big seal. The AKGs are very susceptible to pad swaps.


----------



## danterikxx

so i'll assume it's the same with the 712 Pro and the K7XX


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 712 Pro is a a little different. It held more of the soundstage, though it wqas def warmer and more bassy than the K702. I haven't heard the K7XX but I hear they're derived the Annie...


----------



## danterikxx

will test the stock pads and the Brainz back to back after watching Gamescom today


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The 712 Pro is a a little different. It held more of the soundstage, though it wqas def warmer and more bassy than the K702. I haven't heard the K7XX but I hear they're derived the Annie...


This is true, K7XX have the same flat memory foam pads and design as the Annie, FWIR.

I found a copy of Suikoden not too long ago, mean to play it! Suikoden II is so hard to find!!!

We should stream some multiplayer some time. Warzone has a feature to hide your gamer tag/PSN ID if you want.


@danterikxx, thanks so much! I haven’t found the best way to share yet, but I wouldn’t embed my videos on Mad’s thread without his permission. IMO, it’s his show here! However, I do hope to answer FAQs in such a way that he (and others) could use my videos instead of re-typing answers themselves over and over again 😉


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> This is true, K7XX have the same flat memory foam pads and design as the Annie, FWIR.
> 
> I found a copy of Suikoden not too long ago, mean to play it! Suikoden II is so hard to find!!!
> 
> ...



oh, sorry @Mad Lust Envy


----------



## JayDee12 (Aug 27, 2020)

Hello! I made an account just to ask for an opinion. I have been WRACKING MY BRAINS with choosing the perfect gaming headphones and as a total noob there was so much to learn before I settled on the Fidelio. But now I have some doubt and have switched over to ordering the SHP9500.

I have some questions for those willing to help me and put me out of my misery:


-I have a budget of $200 or $270 CDN

-I chose the Fidelios, orginally because of its supposed comfort and all-around greatness for music and games...but it seems the compliments come from those who play single player games and listen to music

-I play competitive FPS games 90% of the time. I don't listen to too much music, certainly nowhere as much as audiophiles.  I heard so many opinions on Fidelios being serviceable for my gaming needs, to being flat out awful because of no depth, bad imaging, and difficulty in hearing footsteps over bass. I brushed all of this off because I figured upgrading from my HyperX Core's was bound to be an upgrade

-As early as last night, I decided to reconsider the Fidelios and go with the 9500 (not the S model if that makes a massive difference). It's supposedly lower on bass but the mid/treble is better for footsteps. I believe I read it has better imaging, so I am hoping this means I can track enemy footsteps well enough that it is a worthy upgrade from my HyperX

-I got the V-Moda Boomset and the convenience of that plugging into the Philips headphones is great

-I do hear negative opinions on the 9500 but I have to assume these come from audiophiles who are more sensitive to issues than I am, or those who are pickier about the gaming benefits. I assume the OVERALL benefits of clearer audio and positioning from my HyperX would make me satisfied.

SO FAR, is all of this pretty sensible reasoning? I should be more content with 9500 right?

And as an added bonus, the 9500 should make music/movies sound more impressive than my hyperx/iphone stock headset? Im not looking for a music/movie headphones. My primary interest is gaming and everything else is a cherry on top...but Im still curious if these headphones would be a noticeable step up from my HyperX.


I also have some alternative choices:

-HD 599. More expensive, and since I'm using gift cards, I dont mind spending within the budget. How do they compare in these areas: Gaming - Movies - Music. Significantly better than 9500? Marginal? Barely? Not at all?

-770 Pro (32 Ohms). Same questions as above.

-The one issue with these headphones is the incompatibility with the V-Moda mic. Would it be worth choosing these headphones over the 9500, even at the cost of having to buy a modmic and have 2 wires dangling off of me? I will be using these headphones on my PS4 controller too, so I would be buying the audio splitters too, just to connect the headphone and mic jack. All of this is very cluttered but if the HD 599 or 770 Pro is good enough over the 9500, I suppose I should just go for it


I know there are other suggestions out there, like the m50x or m40x, but unless you guys think those are head and shoulders better, I'd like to just settle on these 3


So *TLDR:*

-9500 over Fidelio for gaming, particularly MP shooter games for 90% of my use time. I hear the Fidelio is worse because of bass concealing footsteps and worse imaging and detecting the position of sounds. *Good choice or should I stick with the Fidelio?*

-Should I reconsider the 9500 and *instead purchase the HD 599?* The only downside I know of is that I'd need a modmic, which means two cables to deal with. I am willing to go this route if the HD 599 is that much better than the 9500. The wireless modmic is too expensive, so I will stick with the 3.5mm wired version.

-If not the HD 599, how about the* M50x or M40x? *

-Should I even just *wait for the 9600* reviews? As it seems to be under my $200 budget, perhaps they will be significantly better? Or would it be a bad move to purchase new headphones until things like build quality and unforseeable issues are ironed out?

All I care about is good headphones for gaming. Everything else is secondary to this, though a very nice cherry on top.


*I am so sorry if this is asked a hundred times, but I am so tired of scouring every corner of the internet for info that I have to just lay out my thoughts here. Thank u for any help*


----------



## danterikxx

JayDee12 said:


> Hello! I made an account just to ask for an opinion. I have been WRACKING MY BRAINS with choosing the perfect gaming headphones and as a total noob there was so much to learn before I settled on the Fidelio. But now I have some doubt and have switched over to ordering the SHP9500.
> 
> I have some questions for those willing to help me and put me out of my misery:
> 
> ...



of the headphones you mentioned, i own the 599

it's been a good all arounder gor me so far. Good for gaming, music, movies

also extremely light and comfortable

so, yeah, i can recommend them


----------



## Radio81

I would have went with the Sennheiser PC37X over the SHP9500 and boompro combo.  Better mic, similar sound, and has a volume toggle on the headset and flip-to-mute mic. Especially if you're just plugging it into the DS4.

Really what will make the biggest improvement is a proper DSP and amp.


----------



## Chastity

@JayDee12 

I would consider the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300 R + a Modmic or a desk mic.


----------



## JayDee12 (Aug 27, 2020)

Chastity said:


> @JayDee12
> 
> I would consider the Beyerdynamic Tygr 300 R + a Modmic or a desk mic.



@Chastity  Thanks! But these seem unavailable anywhere here in Canada




Radio81 said:


> I would have went with the Sennheiser PC37X over the SHP9500 and boompro combo.  Better mic, similar sound, and has a volume toggle on the headset and flip-to-mute mic. Especially if you're just plugging it into the DS4.
> 
> Really what will make the biggest improvement is a proper DSP and amp.



I cannot afford amps or anything extra.

Thanks for this suggestion, is the 9500 just not worth it in your opinion?



danterikxx said:


> of the headphones you mentioned, i own the 599
> 
> it's been a good all arounder gor me so far. Good for gaming, music, movies
> 
> ...


thanks!

*I think for me it's down to HD 599 and SHP9500 and the big question for me is: are the 599s significantly worth it, even considering the cable management when adding in the mod mic?*

Price does not matter to me as I am using gift cards here and need to spend it


----------



## tglodjo

Both are great options. I used a SHP9500 w/ V-Moda BoomPro for years. It’s an excellent choose for competitive FPS. And you can customize it a bit to change sound signatures, which is great. 599 is a good option too. Not sure if it’s available in Canada, but Amazon US has a boom mic cable compatible with the 599. Might be worth searching for if you go that direction.


----------



## JayDee12

tglodjo said:


> Both are great options. I used a SHP9500 w/ V-Moda BoomPro for years. It’s an excellent choose for competitive FPS. And you can customize it a bit to change sound signatures, which is great. 599 is a good option too. Not sure if it’s available in Canada, but Amazon US has a boom mic cable compatible with the 599. Might be worth searching for if you go that direction.


Would you say u can hear most footsteps/direction/distance well with the SHP? 

I hear some people saying the 599 is just in a league above 9500s and Im not sure what the major differences would be. The boom mic is crazy expensive in canada, whereas the V-Moda is more than half the price of the Boom mic for the 599.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

https://www.pcgamer.com/this-little-tool-takes-the-hassle-out-of-switching-audio-devices/

Why did it take so long for something like this?

If any of you are like me and are constantly switching audio devices, THIS IS A GODSEND. Hotkeys to switch most used audio devices, as well as mic devices.

No more, right click, control panel, sound devices, choose device.


----------



## JayDee12

Sorry one more question: Would I be able to "Equalize" (as I understand it-- use a software to change the audio balance) the X2HR to be more suitable for video games?

Like, since the X2HR supposedly has bass that conceals footsteps, would I be able to modify the settings somehow to make the X2HR more like the 9500 for gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 28, 2020)

You're overthinking it. You make it sound like the X2 is a fart canon. It's not. It follows the Harman curve really well. So it's lively but well balanced.
I dunno what part of the X2 wouldn't be "suitable" for gaming. It's an excellent headphone and one of my absolute higher recommendations for all purpose gaming.

If you just wanna get something that sucks the fun out of audio for more brutal precision, just get an AD700X or something.

Personally I'd never go that far even for competitive reasons. I'd opt for something like a K612 Pro at the cheap level. It's really fantastic for competitive, without sacrificing much on engaging sound otherwise.


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## Evshrug (Aug 28, 2020)

Radio81 said:


> I would have went with the Sennheiser PC37X over the SHP9500 and boompro combo.  Better mic, similar sound, and has a volume toggle on the headset and flip-to-mute mic. Especially if you're just plugging it into the DS4.
> 
> Really what will make the biggest improvement is a proper DSP and amp.





JayDee12 said:


> @Chastity
> thanks!
> 
> *I think for me it's down to HD 599 and SHP9500 and the big question for me is: are the 599s significantly worth it, even considering the cable management when adding in the mod mic?*
> ...


I’m not telling you what to buy, but...
The Drop.com exclusive Sennheiser PC37X headset has the same driver as an HD 599 (tuned with slightly more upper mids, which seem to help with competitive play), and a Sennheiser condenser microphone. The mic is so good I often use it for voiceovers.

I don’t know what gift cards you have, but the PC37X are $120:
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset?utm_source=appshare&referer=Z2JXCA

(That’s a referral link, if you use it, we both get a few dollars of store credit, I believe you even get some money off your first order).

A friend of mine in the same city had a Philipps SPH9500, with a BoomPro. It was his first “nice” headphone, but he climbed up to a $200 model, won a $700 model, bought a $300 model, and finally bought a $1200 model (for less, used). I’m not saying anything, I’m just relaying his decisions within two years 😂 The SPH9500’s popularity came from being on sale to $49 (and Z Reviews hype of the month), and a lot of people on Head-Fi talked about it’s value at that price. The X2 and SPH9500 were reviewed by Mad Lust Envy on the first page, should give you a decent idea what he liked and disliked about each.



JayDee12 said:


> Sorry one more question: Would I be able to "Equalize" (as I understand it-- use a software to change the audio balance) the X2HR to be more suitable for video games?
> 
> Like, since the X2HR supposedly has bass that conceals footsteps, would I be able to modify the settings somehow to make the X2HR more like the 9500 for gaming?


A little, but reducing the quantity doesn’t necessarily change the character of a headphone. With that said, Mad said in his review and comments that the X2 was more balanced as an all-rounder than the “immersive” (which means more exciting bass) X1. He also made a comparison between the X1 and Beyerdynamic DT 990. If you want to read Mad’s thought on the PC37X, just read his Game One review (same headset except the PC37X is all-black).

You should definitely stick with a headphone/headset that is easy to drive, if you are sticking to the wimpy, muddy DualShock 4 controller. But if you’re using a controller... how would you use an EQ? Option: get the little Creative G3 USB dongle, or save up for the G6. You don’t HAVE to buy everything all at once, and you don’t have to stick with your first purchase forever 👍🏻 Audio is a journey!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 28, 2020)

Evshrug said:


> I’m not telling you what to buy, but...
> The Drop.com exclusive Sennheiser PC37X headset has the same driver as an HD 599 (tunes with slightly more upper mids, which seem to help with competitive play), and a Sennheiser condenser microphone. The mic is so good I often use it for voiceovers.
> 
> I don’t know what gift cards you have, but the PC37X are $120:
> ...


I never reviewed the SHP9500...


I reviewed some ancient $20 Philips headphone, the X1, and the X2, that's it from Philips.


----------



## Evshrug

danterikxx said:


> oh, sorry @Mad Lust Envy


It’s probably OK, Mad didn’t complain, and we go waaaay back... and the video is buried under newer posts by now anyway. I appreciate the sharing, since it’s super hard to get a YouTube channel start gaining traction. This thread is Mad’s show though (and check out his YouTube channel as well! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv5zwzyOSEBk7m6u5Y6npkw). Maybe Mad and I could collaborate on a few videos, so that he can say the things I can’t say, and we both make more content. He’s fun to play Warzone with as well!

Do you think I should make two videos a week, Tuesday and Thursday’s? And do you think it would distract from the headphone content if I talked about any other tech stuff that comes to mind, or should I make a whole new channel just for headphones?


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I never reviewed the SHP9500...
> 
> I reviewed some ancient $20 Philips headphone, the X1, and the X2, that's it from Philips.


Oh.
Well I still give you a lotta credit 😂
It’s a lighter brighter sound, but I can’t give a full review. I disagree with Zeos’ review, but then I disagree with most of his reviews.


----------



## Radio81

I own both the 9500 and X2HR.  9500 is probably slightly better for pinpointing footsteps alone, but the X2HR is just a way more fun headphone, and way more comfortable for me.  I don't use either for music.  I think people knock the 9500 (outside of gaming) because it can be pretty sibilant with certain music.  It's definitely not a great music headphone.  It's also not a bass cannon, so for movies it can be meh.  I didn't really care much for the loose fit and feel of the 9500 until I replaced the stock pads with Shure velour material. The pad swap offered additional clamping force to keep the headphones in place.  SHP9500 is very lightweight, and if you tend to game for hours at a time, that is something to consider a plus over the X2HR.  X2HR for me is more comfy, but also weighs more and can get heavy for long gaming sessions.

I ran the 9500 and V-Moda boompro for a bit.  Not a bad combo, but the PC37X I bought after that was a huge improvement in functionality.  Great sound, lightweight, and having a good built-in mic is always going to be better for everyday use than a stick on mic like a modmic, boompro, lapel mic, etc.

I mostly play FPS an don't have a problem pinpointing enemy locations in games like Modern Warfare with the X2HR.  My K/D ratio is certainly not a noticeable difference between 9500 and X2HR.  -My K/D is equally shtty, regardless   

9600 is a hard pass for me at $130.  What made the 9500 so popular is often you could find it for $50-$60.  At that price, it's awesome.  Maybe I'll eat my words and the 9600 is a huge improvement over the 9500, but it's too early to know for sure.

If your only option is to plug into the DS4, then I would instead spend that money on an off-the-shelf TB Stealth 600 or Sony Gold Headset.  I've tried running headsets off the DS4 but there's just not enough headroom to make anything worth buying live up to its potential.


----------



## Evshrug

Radio81 said:


> I own both the 9500 and X2HR.  9500 is probably slightly better for pinpointing footsteps alone, but the X2HR is just a way more fun headphone, and way more comfortable for me.  I don't use either for music.  I think people knock the 9500 (outside of gaming) because it can be pretty sibilant with certain music.  It's definitely not a great music headphone.  It's also not a bass cannon, so for movies it can be meh.  I didn't really care much for the loose fit and feel of the 9500 until I replaced the stock pads with Shure velour material. The pad swap offered additional clamping force to keep the headphones in place.  SHP9500 is very lightweight, and if you tend to game for hours at a time, that is something to consider a plus over the X2HR.  X2HR for me is more comfy, but also weighs more and can get heavy for long gaming sessions.
> 
> I ran the 9500 and V-Moda boompro for a bit.  Not a bad combo, but the PC37X I bought after that was a huge improvement in functionality.  Great sound, lightweight, and having a good built-in mic is always going to be better for everyday use than a stick on mic like a modmic, boompro, lapel mic, etc.
> 
> ...


I find this post satisfying.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

@JayDee12 - personally if its just for gaming - I'd go for the PC37x option mentioned.  I've used these with the DS4 as well as the SHP9500 + VModa combo and now have the Tygr300r mentioned previously (although via a Creative G6). Have used/owned the Fidelio X2 for a while also but found them a tad heavy and also a little overblown in the bass for the gaming I do.

The PC37x/Game One would get my vote via the controller though as they seem to be easy enough to drive for the pad to deal with, the flip to mute mic is so convenient also plus I found the SHP9500 fit/clamp just a tad loose! Another problem I have found over time is the VModa mic arm seems to wear/loosen over time if you are repositioning it a fair bit.  It seems to not want to stay where I need it and has become a pain anyway when putting the headphones away.  If I wanted the headphones for multi purpose use - music etc as well then the VModa comes into play for me - for purely a gaming headset I'd go the PC37x route.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> It’s probably OK, Mad didn’t complain, and we go waaaay back... and the video is buried under newer posts by now anyway. I appreciate the sharing, since it’s super hard to get a YouTube channel start gaining traction. This thread is Mad’s show though (and check out his YouTube channel as well! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv5zwzyOSEBk7m6u5Y6npkw). Maybe Mad and I could collaborate on a few videos, so that he can say the things I can’t say, and we both make more content. He’s fun to play Warzone with as well!
> 
> Do you think I should make two videos a week, Tuesday and Thursday’s? And do you think it would distract from the headphone content if I talked about any other tech stuff that comes to mind, or should I make a whole new channel just for headphones?



Yeah a collab between you two would be nice 

Two videos a week is the perfect balance: not too much of a wait between each vídeo, and not too much content

Since headphones are used for multiple types of applications (music, games, mixing, recording, etc) and considering that some of them are related to various tech forms, makes sense to have videos about all of that 

I think gaming, headphones, smartphones and Pc's go hand in hand 

After all, in some cases, you cant use one without the other


----------



## danterikxx

Ah, Zeos 

I don't think anyone should be taking Zeos seriously  when it comes to any kind of gaming advice

While he's very experienced and reviews a lot of stuff...he also rambles a lot and gets lost in his thoughts. Plus (and like many of the headphone reviewers on youtube) for him games = online shooters and nothing else. And in one  of his videos he said he's not 16 anymore to be playing llots of games....so, yeah.

(and he hypes a lot of stuff. everything is the next big thing)

I'd watch his videos more like a comedy show rather than real gaming or audio advice. Which is also good sometimes lol


----------



## Evshrug

danterikxx said:


> Ah, Zeos
> 
> I don't think anyone should be taking Zeos seriously  when it comes to any kind of gaming advice
> 
> ...


I do enjoy how he gets excited about things! And, if he’s not in a hurry, he’s fun to hang out with in person too. He’s seen and done some cool stuff.

But he always likes something less expensive. And he always likes new things. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Zachik

danterikxx said:


> I'd watch his videos more like a comedy show rather than real gaming or audio advice. Which is also good sometimes lol


Same here - usually watch in bed, and fall asleep with a grin... 
Only real value, for me, is exposure / discovery. He sometimes reviews products I have never heard of, usually for a good reason


----------



## John Q Lin

What's the best gaming headphone for CS:GO?
I use the audio Technica air 700x and 2000x, and a T1 strictly for CS GO, I thought the hd800 was the best, I sold it, it used to be my go-to for competitive fps, the X2 & Th900 was just not precise in sound location. I don't really want to buy another hd800, what other options are available to me? What do you guys use for fps games, that you feel it gives you the competitive advantage?


----------



## AlBorland (Aug 28, 2020)

Alrighty, need some advice here.

Primary system - Xbox One (will be buying the Series X on release)
Primary use - "competitive" gaming (I'm oldish, but I primarily play FPS)
Current headset - Skullcandy SLYRs (3.5mm directly to controller)
Just bought - Astro A40 w/ Mixamp Pro (Gen 3) - paid $170

I'm fully aware that the best bet is to go headphones + mic, but I think I'm willing to eat the value loss and stick with a headset.  I bought the SLYRs after reading Mad's review and was very surprised at how well they performed.  After 5+ years with them, they still sound fine but are falling apart. 

While I realize the a40's themselves are mediocre at best, I thought I'd make up that value with the Mixamp... but with having to disable the dolby processing and running with Windows Sonic on the Xbone, I'm thinking... what's the point?  Sure it's nice to have a few EQs to flick between as well as the volume knobs, but in terms of overall "competitive" sound, they seem no better than the SLYRs.  I can certainly be convinced to play around with some more EQ presets, but I'm leaning towards returning them.  Supposedly Astro is working with Microsoft to ensure the Mixamps are still compatible with the Series X, but do they really serve much purpose if the Xbox is doing a majority of the sound processing?

So staying within that same price range, am I better off with another option?  I'm content to keep the A40's - they're comfortable, pretty solidly built, and sound fine... just not sure if I'm feeling much of an upgrade over the SLYRs - which I could fix up to extend their life a bit.  The last couple of pages have me leaning towards the PC37X, but definitely open to other options/opinions. (Admittedly I'm a bit partial to Sennheiser, since my first "real" headphones were the HD555s, which I still have to this day - albeit the sound balance is off).


----------



## danterikxx

AlBorland said:


> Alrighty, need some advice here.
> 
> Primary system - Xbox One (will be buying the Series X on release)
> Primary use - "competitive" gaming (I'm oldish, but I primarily play FPS)
> ...



try the newer Sennheiser 500 series, like the 579 or the 599 (own)
i can reccoment the AKG K702 as well

these are what i personally own

but can also "recommend" some that i haven't heard or experienced, but that are good for gaming from what i hear:

Beyerdynamic DT 880,  DT 990 or the TYGR 300R

all withing your budget (maybe not the K702 if you live in the US)


----------



## Evshrug

@John Q Lin What about the HD 800 made you sell it, and make you not want to buy another? Could your reservations be solved with the HD 800S, and an amp that matches up better? What is it about the Beyerdynamic T1 that has you looking around again?

@AlBorland I found that the controller’s headphone output is a significant filter that degrades the potential audio quality of any headphone. Thankfully it uses a wireless radio (2.4GHz?) instead of Bluetooth and an outdated codec for its connection to a PlayStation, however the internal DAC and amp are weak and smear things significantly. The Astro Mixamp isn’t the cutting edge of sound design either, but it should give a noticeable quality improvement over the controller.

The first thing I would recommend is inquiring with Skullcandy about their warranty repair service. That used to be a proud hallmark of theirs, and it can’t hurt to ask them kindly.

Second, if you prefer Windows Sonic over the Dolby Headphone in the Mixamp (which only works properly and to its full potential when receiving a 7.1 Dolby bitstream from the optical input... you tried it that way, right??), then you can use Sonic with any USB DAC/Amp you want. ...Sorry, just remembered you’re playing on an XBOne, which doesn’t have generic USB audio support unless the peripheral maker pays a substantial tax (price is passed along to the consumer). That makes things a bit harder... if you’re not using a microphone or have a separate solution though, I suppose you could try any DAC/amp that has an optical option, as long as you set the optical output of the XBOne to 2-channel PCM. It’s early days for “solving” audio for the XSX, we just don’t know how it will or won’t work yet, so it’s too soon to know how to set things up with that.

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic are two examples of companies that take their regular audiophile headphones and add a broadcast quality boom mic. Between the PC37X and (Creative equivalent of the Custom One Pro) H7 Tournament, I use the PC37X for gaming on my iPad, video voiceovers, and internet calls, while my wife likes the H7 for recording audiobooks.


----------



## Evshrug

Oh! I just realized something!
Since Sennheiser spun off their entire gaming division and EPOS Audio is a whole different company (and their partnership has basically ended, amicably), I can finally talk about PC gaming soundcards and DSPs again!

*For 7.1 Surround*, easiest to “place” sounds and sometimes trick me into thinking something is happening IRL instead of the game, in my experience:
Yamaha’s “Silent Cinema” < NX Waves < Dolby Headphone <= CMSS3D <SBX <GSX1000 <Smyth Realiser’s default (uncalibrated) HRTF.

I honestly feel the GSX1000 makes a strong showing in surround realism, though YouTube videos sometimes sound weirder and echoey compared to in-game, and while it’s perfect with a Game One/PC37X (almost like its made for it, hmmmmm!) and great with an HD 599 or HD 58X Jubilee, a harder to drive headphone like the HD 650 or a T50RP is going to suffer from the limits of a USB powered device... but it’s a clean enough headphone output for double amping!

I would really like to try Creative’s new Super X-Fi stuff... one thing I’ve learned is that how close or far your head and ears are from the generic “head” used in most Spacial Audio DSPs can make or break the Spacial illusion, and Super X-Fi allows some degree of customization using photos and an app.


For *7.1 Surround with Headtracking*... that’s a different story! Seems to be a major boon for a “VR-like” experience without motion sickness, even looking at a stationary screen all the minute “trembles” of your head and natural inclination to cock your head occasionally really helps “recalibrate” your brain’s sense of position. Think about it... with speakers, there is a bit of a crossfeed effect to both of your ears (which any spacial processing provides), and your head occludes and filters the sound a bit (HRTF, also should be included in any spacial audio processing), but also we’re free to slouch and lean and shift our position in our seat, changing our relative position to the speakers, and head-tracking is one of the last major ingredients in recreating that “speaker like” sound.

I think the NX Waves starts to pull ahead of the static spacial audio solutions when it comes to placing a sound as coming from a certain direction... but it loses some points because it still is a bit smeared and distance is a bit less natural. NX Waves is DEFINITELY helped by entering your head width, and the headtracking of motion, but it just doesn’t quite have the same level of performance and clarity as the others.

Hands down, the Smyth Realiser is the treasure of my collection. Head tracking, accurate customization based on microphones listening inside your ears (only needed during setup... but setup is a pretty involved process), a powerful processor dedicated to running their sophisticated algorithm, compatible with pretty much any computer or game console with USB or HDMI... it was always the best of show and a must-demo when Smyth was at a CanJam or other trade show. It’s amazing not only because of the peerless positional imaging, but also because of its ability to transform extremely transparent headphones (like a Stax or HD 800) to sound indistinguishable from the speakers you calibrated from. Once you get used to it, the only difference from a perfect Dolby Atmos or Ambisonics speaker setup is the lack of air pressure against your chest and skin... but hook up a subwoofer, and you can be transported to the AIX Recording Studio in Los Angeles even if you are only in a small bedroom trying to pub-stomp people in the latest shooter 🤣 There are a few major caveats though: price and availability. I got in on the Kickstarter Early Bird, but last I read the retail price is $4000. I had to wait four years to get my unit after I paid them, and the last update I got from Smyth (now one year after launch) they have only shipped 255 of the backers orders so far. There are also some smaller caveats as well. The reliance on speaker-standard surround formats like 7.1 LPCM or Dolby Atmos does give it great compatibility, but ultimately it’s emulating a 7 or 16 speaker setup without pure a binaural ability for sound to come from any arbitrary angle. That’s a small complaint, I mean Atmos is pretty good, but it’s not quite as much freedom as 3D audio in VR (but VR audio doesn’t customize based on your head shape... ah well!). There is also competitive-breaking lag when gaming with Dolby bitstreaming – Smyth may be able to fix that some day, but since most games are limited to 7.1 anyway, I just use the LPCM setting from my PS4 Pro (and 7.1 over USB with my PC) and that works fine. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Redscape Audio’s solution seems to work better than NX Waves, and I enjoyed several auditions at two CanJams (before and after the show was open to the public! Not crowded or noisy!), however I couldn’t actually play games, just listen to music and play videos. The interaction from playing games, the control over direction, usually makes games sound way more “spacial” and “3D” to me than watching movies with a spacial DSP (not to mention most movies make hardly any use of rear channels anyway, because they want to focus your attention on the shot shown on screen, while games have constant ambient noise and freedom of perspective), but the headtracking helps somewhat to provide me some interaction with the media (including with some prerecorded gameplay). You can’t take measurements from real speakers, but I believe you could enter the width of your head. I think it has the potential to be almost as good as the Smyth Realiser A16, and far more affordable and obtainable. I don’t know how much performance the software borrows from your PC to run, but I’d gladly trade a bit of shadow quality and resolution for Sonic immersion.


*The Future of Spacial Audio *looks interesting, but it’s a little up in the air. Both Xbox and PlayStation have announced headphone spacial audio support out of the box for their upcoming consoles... but they said that for the PS4 and XBox One as well, with TrueAudio (PS4/AMD) and Sphere Audio (Xbox One), but developers didn’t take advantage of it, and surround audio output was limited to (bottom of the barrel crappy) controller headphone outputs, optical (which got cut from Slim models), and HDMI. Full USB support with 7.1 surround was possible with both consoles, but DSP makers like Astro/Turtle Beach/Platronics and anyone else interested had to pay about a $37 license fee PER UNIT MANUFACTURED... that cost would be passed on to the consumer or taken out of the budget for sound quality, and I just can’t think of a single good product that took advantage of this, including PlayStation’s own Gold wireless headsets. Will next gen overcome these limitations??? Maybe... there’s slightly more manufacturer promotion and press coverage about it this time, but we’ll have to see if game devs actually use it and we get quality audio components to use with it. I don’t see myself selling my Realiser 😂

Another piece of the future of spacial Audio is in the VR space. By its nature, the audio HAS to be in 3D for VR. And headtracking is assumed. My VR experience is with the PSVR, and though it doesn’t allow for head shape customization, the algorithms aren’t as sophisticated as the Realiser, nor can you upgrade to an external DAC/amp, I still feel my PSVR provides a compelling sound (and visual) experience. I would rank it above the NX Waves with headtracking, even though the PSVR can’t calibrate based on head width. It really gives me hope that at least Sony has the chops to do spacial Audio well, and I imagine the experience with a Vive is even better because maybe you can use it with external DAC/Amp components (can you??). For anyone that can’t use VR due to motion sickness, have hope that headtracking spacial audio might be able to give you that immersion without the nausea!

Here’s to looking forward to the future, and enjoying the now!


----------



## Chastity

Evshrug said:


> Since Sennheiser spun off their entire gaming division and EPOS Audio is a whole different company (and their partnership has basically ended, amicably), I can finally talk about PC gaming soundcards and DSPs again!


You couldn't discuss Sennheiser/EPOS products before?  What a crap company.  When working for Asus, I was free to discuss their products, as long as it was open and honest.  Not once did they ever ask me not to discuss anything, even if it was a critical review of a product.  In fact, I was asked for my insights on various products, including laptop positions in their marketing, audio cards, etc.


----------



## Evshrug (Aug 30, 2020)

Chastity said:


> You couldn't discuss Sennheiser/EPOS products before?  What a crap company.  When working for Asus, I was free to discuss their products, as long as it was open and honest.  Not once did they ever ask me not to discuss anything, even if it was a critical review of a product.  In fact, I was asked for my insights on various products, including laptop positions in their marketing, audio cards, etc.


It’s not so much that I can’t talk about their products, it’s that I didn’t feel like it would be proper to make subjective statements, particularly because of my years of history exploring and reviewing binaural/virtual surround/ spacial audio products prior to consulting for Sennheiser. I quite liked the surround processing on the EPOS GSX1000 and I didn’t want people to think I was biased because I did some contract work for Sennheiser. I don’t get any sales commission, but I didn’t even want people to get that idea... it’s kind of a tricky situation. Now that they’re two separate companies though, and Sennheiser has left the gaming space, I think it’s fair game!

When Axel worked at Sennheiser, he did ask for feedback, in fact they contracted me because Jude and my friend Brian referred me among a group of people, and Axel read some of my reviews. As I said, it’s tricky and not a simple situation, but I am passionate about this stuff and love talking about it.


----------



## danterikxx

Evshrug said:


> Oh! I just realized something!
> Since Sennheiser spun off their entire gaming division and EPOS Audio is a whole different company (and their partnership has basically ended, amicably), I can finally talk about PC gaming soundcards and DSPs again!
> 
> *For 7.1 Surround*, easiest to “place” sounds and sometimes trick me into thinking something is happening IRL instead of the game, in my experience:
> ...



The best audio support will come from Sony's first party studios, as usual. Naughty Dog, Santa Monica, Guerrilla, etc. And a couple more third party devs like DICE or devs from CoD

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/0...or-the-ps5-console-generation/?ref-cat=254013

They touched on it here again in their latest PS5 blog post, but the full blowout hasn't happened yet. Should happen at the price reveal event, and maybe a teardown of the console

Very anxious to see if they keep the Optical out or not


----------



## Evshrug

Have you ever played Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice with a pair of headphones?

That game didn’t beat Dark Souls when it comes to melee combat, but they did use a binaural microphone head to record the voices “in your head” and by your ear. Through sheer contrast of the near and far sounds, there is a sense of depth and the ethereal, which of course ties in with the hallucinations, intensity, and “magic” happening on screen. A game with so much potential, decently executed, but I really want to see where they take the next game! Considering how the first game was featured on and promoted by PlayStation, I’m surprised the sequel will be an XSX exclusive, but hopefully it’s just a timed exclusive. I loved the Bungie Halo games (and Halo 4’s narrative had merit), but it’s the sequel to Hellblade that interests me the most on the XSX!

Also, as a multi platform game, Star Wars Squadrons. Neeeeeeed that game! I’m looking forward to Cyberpunk too, but I haven’t had a good space sim like Squadron for a looooong time!


----------



## danterikxx

I have, it had phenomenal sound around your head like you said. Really disturbing sometimes lol. At the time i only used the Sony Golds

"but hopefully it’s just a timed exclusive"

it won't come to Playstation. Microsoft bought the studio in 2018

in the meantime i'll leave some of my fav OSTs here, in case someone feels like listeing:

-NieR Automata
-Death Stranding
-Doom/Doom Eternal
-God of War
-Bloodborne
-Red Dead Redemption 2
-Celeste
-Metal Gear Rising
-Journey


----------



## Fegefeuer

wait, Sennheiser ditched their gaming division?


----------



## danterikxx

Fegefeuer said:


> wait, Sennheiser ditched their gaming division?



nope

it's now called Epos

https://www.eposaudio.com


----------



## danterikxx (Sep 1, 2020)

not what i wanedt to hear....

what do i do now?

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-doesnt-have-optical-audio-port.278285/


----------



## WhiteHartMart

danterikxx said:


> not what i wanedt to hear....
> 
> what do i do now?
> 
> https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-doesnt-have-optical-audio-port.278285/



Darn it - looks like my optical cabling for my G6 will need changing then.  Will have to passthrough the audio from the TV back to the G6 with the PS5 if I want to keep chat mix control?  Unless of course Sony have provided more functionality from the USB output and Creative can update the firmware?


----------



## danterikxx

WhiteHartMart said:


> Darn it - looks like my optical cabling for my G6 will need changing then.  Will have to passthrough the audio from the TV back to the G6 with the PS5 if I want to keep chat mix control?  Unless of course Sony have provided more functionality from the USB output and Creative can update the firmware?



they said Astro is making some kind of HDMI splitter to Optical

they'll give more info closer to launch


hopefully the console supports USB amps this time around

"

Astro is releasing an HDMI-to-optical audio splitter that will allow your headset to interface with the PS5 with no additional firmware needed. It supports HDMI 2.1, HDCP, and 4K passthrough. Astro says it won’t introduce any input lag, and because it’s Dolby-compliant product, the sound shouldn’t be worse off, either.


This splitter will be released in October for $40, which isn’t a terrible price for a splitter that guarantees lossless quality with your next-gen console.  But what’s better is that, if you already own an Astro headset, you can enter your serial number on its site to save $15 off the cost of the splitter, bringing the total down to $25.

"

what's the best option now? @Evshrug 

wait to see if the PS5 supports USB gear?
buy some HDMI to optical adaptor?


----------



## Radio81

No surprise they didn't include an optical port.  It sounds like you only need the optical adapter for legacy products to keep the Dolby processing working.  The A20 Gen 1 comes with a wireless transmitter with optical input.  The new A20 will come with only a USB adapter.

https://www.astrogaming.com/en-us/products/headsets/a20-gen-2.html

If you go to Astro's website for the A20 Gen 2, there's a video that shows a 360 view of the headset.  There is a dial for chat/game mix, but it says it's for Xbox and PC only.  So if you have the A20 Gen 1, you can buy the $40 PS5 adapter and keep your game/chat mix.  Or buy the Gen 2 and not have a game/chat mix option at all?  I'm sure there will be chatmix settings at the OS level, but nothing beats a good hardware solution.

If Sony is dropping optical and also not giving us the option to mix game and chat audio through USB hardware, that's a bummer.  Looks like I'll be buying the Astro $40 adapter and keeping my current products.


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> No surprise they didn't include an optical port.  It sounds like you only need the optical adapter for legacy products to keep the Dolby processing working.  The A20 Gen 1 comes with a wireless transmitter with optical input.  The new A20 will come with only a USB adapter.
> 
> https://www.astrogaming.com/en-us/products/headsets/a20-gen-2.html
> 
> ...



Will that adapter allow me to use the gear i have(Sennheiser HD 599 and K702)?


----------



## Radio81

danterikxx said:


> Will that adapter allow me to use the gear i have(Sennheiser HD 599 and K702)?



What is your current setup?


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> What is your current setup?



SMSL M3 (optical) + Sennheiser HD 599 + AKG K702


----------



## Radio81

danterikxx said:


> SMSL M3 (optical) + Sennheiser HD 599 + AKG K702



Yeah.  The adapter allows audio extraction from HDMI and will send optical to your SMSL.


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> Yeah.  The adapter allows audio extraction from HDMI and will send optical to your SMSL.



Wonder if having a dac/amp prevents me from having the built in 3D Audio of the PS5 tho


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 1, 2020)

danterikxx said:


> not what i wanedt to hear....
> 
> what do i do now?
> 
> https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-doesnt-have-optical-audio-port.278285/


Your tv should have an optical out. Assuming it's of the past decade or so.

Since the ps5 will have surround options in game, you won't need multi channel from the ps5 output itself.

At least I'm ASSUMING the surround options will be in game or within ps5 options so that everything will output that sound.


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Your tv should have an optical out. Assuming it's of the past decade or so.
> 
> Since the ps5 will have surround options in game, you won't need multi channel from the ps5 output itself.
> 
> At least I'm ASSUMING the surround options will be in game or within ps5 options so that everything will output that sound.



It's a monitor, so no Optical there 

Guess i'll have to buy that adapter anyway


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Your tv should have an optical out. Assuming it's of the past decade or so.
> 
> Since the ps5 will have surround options in game, you won't need multi channel from the ps5 output itself.
> 
> At least I'm ASSUMING the surround options will be in game or within ps5 options so that everything will output that sound.


Also keep in mind that many optical outputs on devices like TVs and receivers are limited to 2.0 for audio pass-through. Fine for a stereo DAC, but won't work for external VSS devices in many cases. You'd want to check if the TV would allow multi-channel pass-through first. Some will, some won't. A number of manufacturers have started using ARC for multi-channel audio, which is still HDMI.


----------



## Radio81

PS5 Questions:
Will 3D audio be standard over USB, or is it reserved for Sony Pulse 3D headset and Dual Sense audio output?
Clearly the Pulse 3D has chatmix.  So why doesn't headsets that were just announced like the TB Steath 600/700 Gen 2 and Astro A20?
Is chatmix not going to be possible on PS5 via USB other than with Sony branded headsets?


----------



## danterikxx

Radio81 said:


> PS5 Questions:
> Will 3D audio be standard over USB, or is it reserved for Sony Pulse 3D headset and Dual Sense audio output?
> Clearly the Pulse 3D has chatmix.  So why doesn't headsets that were just announced like the TB Steath 600/700 Gen 2 and Astro A20?
> Is chatmix not going to be possible on PS5 via USB other than with Sony branded headsets?



Some of them support 3D Audio through the DualSense's 3.5mm input 

So far its all we know 

Sony is taking too long to drop this info. We dont even know the price yet


----------



## Radio81

The best part of all of this is finding out there will be no optical port on PS5 from an article on theverge about a third-party headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 1, 2020)

AxelCloris said:


> Also keep in mind that many optical outputs on devices like TVs and receivers are limited to 2.0 for audio pass-through. Fine for a stereo DAC, but won't work for external VSS devices in many cases. You'd want to check if the TV would allow multi-channel pass-through first. Some will, some won't. A number of manufacturers have started using ARC for multi-channel audio, which is still HDMI.


I was thinking more of the internal VSS solutions that are coming for the Xbox Series X and PS5. They won't need more than basic 2.0 PCM output.

The question is whether they'll output to more than just the controller's analog out. LKike, will it pass through  the HDMI, or usb dac (if possible)


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I was thinking more of the internal VSS solutions that are coming for the Xbox Series X and PS5. They won't need more than basic 2.0 PCM output.
> 
> The question is whether they'll output to more than just the controller's analog out. LKike, will it pass through  the HDMI, or usb dac (if possible)



Yep, that's my question as well


----------



## Evshrug

Fegefeuer said:


> wait, Sennheiser ditched their gaming division?


They spun it off, it's become it's own company. http://eposaudio.com/
EPOS is still providing the PC37X to Drop, and the GSP and GSX products to everyone (and warranty support for the gaming products), but we'll have to see what the future holds for them.




danterikxx said:


> they said Astro is making some kind of HDMI splitter to Optical
> they'll give more info closer to launch
> ***snip***
> what's the best option now? @Evshrug
> ...


There are already HDMI/Optical splitters on the market... but still, I would wait until we know more at launch. Like you said, if the PS5 supports USB audio output, and the 3D spacial audio is premixed into the signal before the USB output, it might be as easy as plugging in your current DAC/Amp (or a DAC/Amp with a headphone out and a mic in, like the GSX1000, Schiit Hel, Creative G3, etc). Or maybe some companies will pay the license for a more integrated solution. No point buying anything now before the console is available!



danterikxx said:


> Wonder if having a dac/amp prevents me from having the built in 3D Audio of the PS5 tho


Well, if you imagine all future games working like The Last of Us or Battlefield V do on the current generation hardware, the 3D audio is processed and mixed (or "baked in" to the signal) before a DAC even sees it. You could play those games right now in 3D or 2D audio with your SMSL plugged right in to the USB port of your PS4.

Thanks for watching all my YouTube videos by the way. I'm trying to encourage Mad as well! He just streamed on Twitch yesterday.


----------



## JayDee12

Hey guys! So I got my X2HR but they dont seem to sound right on my PC! When playing games like Apex or Siege, the sound is very hollow, almost like its distant. I have to also put the volume much higher, almost max, to get it to sound "full" but even then it just sounds like its not correct.

For example, the footsteps my character makes sound distant or muffled, whereas my HyperX Core sounds completely fine.

Im assuming its my motherboard because I feel the sound is fine on my phone and the PS4's controller jack. The motherboard is a asrock z77 Pro 3.

I suppose I should invest in a DAC/AMP so Im going to shop for the cheapest possible budget DAC/AMP as I cant spend too much. Hoping to find something below $60 CAD, unless thats unreasonable 

Thanks again for your guys's help. Tomorrow my SHP9600s arrive and Im curious to compare


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You might also wanna try another cable. Any 3.5mm / Aux cable is fine.

And from experience, make sure the cable is fully FULLY inserted. Even a fraction of it not, can ruin the sound.


----------



## Prpnnightmare

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone could help make a recommendation on my next purchase. Right now I am using the HE-4XX into a X-Fi Titanium HD. I have thoroughly enjoyed these headphones, but the headband is on its last legs, and the pads have come unglued from the mounting rings. I'm in Australia so getting a new classic headband sent out is a ~ $120AUD affair, and a new set of Dekoni pads will be an additional $100 - 120AUD, so $220 - $240 total to repair these. I wouldn't really want to spend more than $500 AUD on my next purchase, but I could get the HE-400i 2020 Edition ($279), the HE-400s ($364), or the HE-400i ($399), and feel like any of these may make more sense than paying more than 50% of their cost to repair my HE-4XX.

All of that said, I am tossing up spending the extra to get the Audeze Mobius ($569) based on the stellar wrap that MLE gave in his review, but am totally unsure if the price is worth it for the extra features of the Mobius, and to what degree it beats out the Hifiman options I have available. The Mobius being self-driven could be a really nice plus considering the age of my Titanium HD, but I am unsure where to land, and really keen for recommendations given my budget.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Prpnnightmare said:


> Hey all, I was wondering if anyone could help make a recommendation on my next purchase. Right now I am using the HE-4XX into a X-Fi Titanium HD. I have thoroughly enjoyed these headphones, but the headband is on its last legs, and the pads have come unglued from the mounting rings. I'm in Australia so getting a new classic headband sent out is a ~ $120AUD affair, and a new set of Dekoni pads will be an additional $100 - 120AUD, so $220 - $240 total to repair these. I wouldn't really want to spend more than $500 AUD on my next purchase, but I could get the HE-400i 2020 Edition ($279), the HE-400s ($364), or the HE-400i ($399), and feel like any of these may make more sense than paying more than 50% of their cost to repair my HE-4XX.
> 
> All of that said, I am tossing up spending the extra to get the Audeze Mobius ($569) based on the stellar wrap that MLE gave in his review, but am totally unsure if the price is worth it for the extra features of the Mobius, and to what degree it beats out the Hifiman options I have available. The Mobius being self-driven could be a really nice plus considering the age of my Titanium HD, but I am unsure where to land, and really keen for recommendations given my budget.


Wait just over one month....


----------



## PurpleAngel

Prpnnightmare said:


> Hey all, I was wondering if anyone could help make a recommendation on my next purchase. Right now I am using the HE-4XX into a X-Fi Titanium HD. I have thoroughly enjoyed these headphones, but the headband is on its last legs, and the pads have come unglued from the mounting rings. I'm in Australia so getting a new classic headband sent out is a ~ $120AUD affair, and a new set of Dekoni pads will be an additional $100 - 120AUD, so $220 - $240 total to repair these. I wouldn't really want to spend more than $500 AUD on my next purchase, but I could get the HE-400i 2020 Edition ($279), the HE-400s ($364), or the HE-400i ($399), and feel like any of these may make more sense than paying more than 50% of their cost to repair my HE-4XX.
> 
> All of that said, I am tossing up spending the extra to get the Audeze Mobius ($569) based on the stellar wrap that MLE gave in his review, but am totally unsure if the price is worth it for the extra features of the Mobius, and to what degree it beats out the Hifiman options I have available. The Mobius being self-driven could be a really nice plus considering the age of my Titanium HD, but I am unsure where to land, and really keen for recommendations given my budget.


I would recommend getting a headphone amplifier and connect it to the Ti-HD's (Titanium-HD) RCA jacks.
JDS Atom or Schiit Magni or other.
The headphone amplifier built into the Ti-HD is halfway decent, but the Atom or Magni or other might improve audio quality.


----------



## danterikxx (Sep 3, 2020)

Modded my K702s by removing the inside foam piece

so much more comfy now, even tho the treble became more noticible


----------



## AlBorland

danterikxx said:


> try the newer Sennheiser 500 series, like the 579 or the 599 (own)
> i can reccoment the AKG K702 as well
> 
> these are what i personally own
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm still leaning headset, but slowly starting to entertain a headphone+mic combo again.



Evshrug said:


> @John Q Lin What about the HD 800 made you sell it, and make you not want to buy another? Could your reservations be solved with the HD 800S, and an amp that matches up better? What is it about the Beyerdynamic T1 that has you looking around again?
> 
> @AlBorland I found that the controller’s headphone output is a significant filter that degrades the potential audio quality of any headphone. Thankfully it uses a wireless radio (2.4GHz?) instead of Bluetooth and an outdated codec for its connection to a PlayStation, however the internal DAC and amp are weak and smear things significantly. The Astro Mixamp isn’t the cutting edge of sound design either, but it should give a noticeable quality improvement over the controller.
> 
> ...



Really appreciate the post.  One thing you touched on that I'm really struggling with is the optimal Xbox One audio settings - my primary focus right now is positional accuracy in MW.  Below are the setups I have tried.

My current setup:




When I try to enable the bitstream output below (which I have to toggle the mixamp between PC and console mode to do), the sound doesn't seem to be any better and I lose my mic:


I've tried 10 different EQ presets that are supposedly the "best" to hear footsteps (in particular MW), but right now the top setup is giving me the best results.  Everything else sounds "tinny" and ear piercing. I'm using a slightly modified stock Tournament preset that doesn't make my ears bleed and is ok, but all of them feel like even when directional positioning is ok, distance becomes problematic.

Some other contradictory info I read today was that Stereo is actually best for positional sound, so I have no idea What to use, haha.

Apologies if I've taken this a bit offtopic for the thread, but ultimately I want to ensure I've optimized my settings before making the decision to scrap the A40's and go with a different setup.


----------



## Prpnnightmare

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wait just over one month....



For Penrose? Either way, will do!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Prpnnightmare said:


> For Penrose? Either way, will do!


Something else. But I can't discuss.


----------



## tglodjo

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Something else. But I can't discuss.


The tease! AGAIN! Ughhhhhhhhhhh.


----------



## Prpnnightmare

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Something else. But I can't discuss.



 Thanks for the heads up, I really appreciate it!


----------



## Fegefeuer




----------



## Chastity (Sep 4, 2020)

Fegefeuer said:


>



3 minutes in, and I was ready to Zzzzzzz.....

"I use Dianas when I game"  must be nice when they're free...


----------



## danterikxx

ewww

those dudes know nothing about gaming. disgraceful video


----------



## Chastity

Today for fun, I setup Diablo 3 to use Dolby Pro Logic out, and enabled Dolby Atmos for Headphones.  DAYUMM, dat SHIZZLE my nizzle!  (aka it works pretty damn good)


----------



## Boogie7910

I have a Sound BlasterX G6. I'm always looking to upgrade if there's something better. Anything else out now that takes its spot? What about Nahimic?


----------



## John Q Lin

Anybody here likes the beyerdynamic T90 for gaming?


----------



## danterikxx

@Evshrug what's your honest opinion on your AKG 612 Pro? are you happy with the level of detail/clarity and engagement you get from games?

I ask this because i don't know if i should upgrade from them (K702) or not....


----------



## apaar123

Will fidelio x3hr be good for movies as well. I have hd598 for competitive gaming and want one for fun  gaming and movies


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nobody frequently in here has heard one.


----------



## halcyon

Prpnnightmare said:


> For Penrose? Either way, will do!




Penrose is a plain old stereo headset. Nothing special for gaming. No Multichannel virtualization.


----------



## halcyon (Sep 14, 2020)

apaar123 said:


> Will fidelio x3hr be good for movies as well. I have hd598 for competitive gaming and want one for fun  gaming and movies





The exact model name is Philips Fidelio X3 (not HR). The HR was a second gen of X2 title X2HR.

Haven't heard them yet, but a few reviews are online. Many tout it's great for movies, yet some reviewers state they may not be the best for vocals as the presence range gets crowded out by the other regions. Haven't found an anlytical review of them for gaming yet.

We need to wait for more reviews.


----------



## ricardovix (Sep 17, 2020)

Hello guys! I have a Sennheiser HD598 paired with an Sennheiser GSX1000 soundcard, which I use exclusively to play PC games (nothing competitive and I don't hear music or watch movies), but I'm thinking about get rid of these cables, so I'm looking for something wireless. Is there a wireless headset as good or better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for gaming?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Hello guys! I have a Sennheiser HD598 paired with an Sennheiser GSX1000 soundcard, which I use exclusively to play PC games (nothing competitive and I don't hear music or watch movies), but I'm thinking about get rid of these cables, so I'm looking for something wireless. Is there a wireless headset as good or better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for gaming?


My two cents, stick to the HD598.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 18, 2020)

Wireless is an iffy area where you're gonna have compromises in terms of trying to find a product that matches something like the 598 in terms of gaming performance.

Maybe an Ananda bluetooth would make a great upgrade if it's anything like the regular version, though it's Bluetooth. Not even sure it accepts low latency which is absolutely required of gaming.

Then there's the fact it costs a cool 1k. Personally, there's no way in holy hell I'd spend that much on a headphone today, less a wireless one.


----------



## wmf

Any love out there for the Sennheisers HD650 for PC gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 20, 2020)

Jesus Christ, first page formatting got screwed up somewhere and messed up a BUNCH of my reviews with everything being bolded, as well as spoiler tags breaking up reviews in two pieces.

SMH. I don't even know where to start.




wmf said:


> Any love out there for the Sennheisers HD650 for PC gaming?


My last review was of the 6XX which in turn makes it a review of the 650...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 22, 2020)

edit: I just now realized that most of my recent reviews have attachment links that NO ONE can see, and so all of my images have been there for MY eyes only. It's quite upsetting. Enough for me to give up. This is so disheartening. Now I'll have to spend a day redoing ALL the image attachments for so many reviews. Now I wonder how dry and boring my reviews must've looked without images for you guys...

Anyways, this is the new PC38X review, now with image links that ACTUALLY work.




*Sennheiser PC38X*




Where to buy:  *Drop.com* as of September 2020 ($160-ish)

Disclaimer: A special thanks to Drop.com for sending the PC38X out to me for review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.



*Intro*​
Drop is back at it again, this time with a successor to the Sennheiser PC37X. The PC38X doesn't outright replace the PC37X, which remain in Drop's arsenal at a lower price. I find the price difference mostly negligible, and the improvements made with the PC38X are absolutely worth the difference, particularly if you're lacking a headset. Some people may immediately ask if these are just a PC-37X with new pads for added bass or any of the other sonic differences, with no other major changes. The answer is, no. The welcome note in the packaging states:

_"Enjoy the best of two of Sennheiser's leading open-back gaming headsets: The PC38X combines the clarity and immersion of the PC37X with the impressive deep bass of the GSP 500.

This has been achieved by using a custom designed driver, which implements a heavier voice coil to deliver impressively deep bass for an open-back design, as well as careful tuning to deliver a rich and immersive sound experience."_

Are these statements accurate? From my experience, I find this an incredibly accurate assessment of the PC38X. I have not heard the GSP 500, but if the bass on the PC38X is any indication, they are indeed deeper and more extended in bass than the PC37X.



*What's In The Box?*​


I must say, I really like the small, plain jane, cardboard box used for the PC-38X. Less material, packed with all the essentials.



Pouch - A fabric pouch with 'DROP' printed on the surface. It's super soft, and large enough to fit the headset without any issues. Perfect to store the headset or taking it on the go.



Cables - A 3 meter cable that splits into audio and mic 3.5mm plugs. Also a 1.2mm cable with a TRRS plug for inputs that accept both mic and audio channels in one plug (like a mobile device).



Spare Velour Pads - My guess is that these seem to be just like the velour pads used on the PC38X's older siblings. A nice inclusion, which may have an impact on comfort and sonic characteristics, if subtly so.



*Build Quality*​


Before I say anything of the PC38X's build quality, I have to tell you guys that I will be reiterating a lot of what I've said on the GAME ONE review (with some pasting of some statements), as the PC38X shares most, if not all design and build aspects, save for color scheme and outer cup grill design. I believe this design started with the PC360, then moved on to the GAME ONE, PC37X, and finally the PC38X. "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" must be one of Sennheiser's favorite proverbs.

The PC38X retains the typical dark color palette Drop uses for their variants, with little in the way of Gamer-esque flourishes (in contrast to the white GAME ONE, which was a step in the other direction with bright colors to appeal to the younger gaming crowd).

Frankly, I'm not a huge fan of aesthetics on the GSP line of Sennheiser headsets, so I'm quite thankful the PC line of headsets exists, as I find them to look much more elegant and classy, compared to the bulkier, gamery nature of the GSP line. Personal preference, of course.


*Headband:*



The PC38X's headband is kept strictly business, akin to the PC360 and PC37X. Mostly all matte black plastic. The underside has two area of cushions, thicker and more spread across the headband than the HD6XX, covered in the same, newer fabric material as the earpads (as opposed to typical velour or leatherette). There is a small gap directly in the center to keep the headband from hotspotting on the very top of your head, which I find to be the correct choice, as 10 and 2 on your head can deal with hotspots better than 12 o' clock.

The extension arms are thin but sturdy, with plenty of length for all head sizes. There are clicks when extending, but no notches or other markers to count, so it may not be the easy to get both sides to end up perfectly equal in size, if you find yourself obsessing over such small details.


*Cups:*



Typical to most Sennheiser headphones I've reviewed, the cups are oval in shape. There is minimal swivel (just enough for secure fit), but plenty of vertical pivot in the cups (45 degrees if my calculations are correct). In a step back to the more open design of the PC360, Sennheiser opted to ditch the slotted vent openings of the GAME ONE and PC37X, in favor of a more traditional mesh-style grill covering the drivers. These possibly give the drivers less resistance, allowing the drivers to pump out sound with less reflective surface area bouncing the sound back towards your ears.

The outer right cup houses the volume dial which I find slightly insensitive in terms of travel to volume change ratio. I find this to be a good thing, as minor volume adjustments can be made. Turning the volume all the way down doesn't completely mute the audio, yet goes low enough to allow for your attention to be diverted to the outside world. The volume dial also doesn't lose perfect channel balance at low volumes unlike other headsets with inline volume adjustments.

The outer left cup holds the lengthy boom mic which has a black matte rubbery portion in the middle to allow some bending. Positioning the mic upwards mutes the mic as labelled on the cup itself where the mic is attached. The bottom of this cup is also where the 2.5mm cable input is located, and only needs the detachable cables to be pushed in; no twist and lock mechanism. I find this to be more than adequate, and more versatile if cable swaps/mods are something deemed worthwhile. Just be mindful that it carries both audio and mic channels.


*Pads:*

A change from the previously used velour pads on the older headsets, the PC38X uses a denser foam padding covered in different fabric material. If I could make an educated guess based on subjective listening impressions, the pads seem to allow the PC38X to retain more of the low end bass decay compared to the velour pads that are also included with the PC38X as spare pads.

The pads are generously large, deep, and ultimately top notch in comfort. They snap off the headphone easily, where you can see a plastic ring permanently attached to the underside of the pads which snap back onto the small 'teeth' on the driver housing. This is one of the easiest attachment/removal designs I've seen on any headphone.


*Cables:*

As mentioned earlier, the PC38X comes with two cables in the package. A lengthy 3 meter cable which terminates into both a 3.5mm audio plug, and 3.5mm microphone plug. The cable seems to be paracord-style, with nice sleeving, and a durable feel.

The other cable is a short 1.2mm cable with a TRRS plug. It's the same quality as its longer counterpart. I see this as a cable to be used for devices close to you, such as a PS4's Dualshock 4 controller with audio input, or a mobile device.

I would have liked to seen a Y cable adapter for the longer cable that joins both audio/chat together into one TRRS plug, for people whose devices are considerably further than 1.2m.


*Final Build Impressions:*



The PC38X, is made of highly durable plastics that I feel will take moderate abuse without any major issues. There's really nothing bad that can be said of the build quality here.



*Comfort*​
*Weight:*

At 285g, the PC38X is light for a full sized headset, though not the lightest pair I've used. It falls somewhere in the lighter side of the average, which allows for all day listening without any real strain. Personally, the PC38X is one of the more comfortable headphone/headsets I've used in terms of weight.


*Headband:*

The PC38X has a wonderfully fabric padded underside which rests comfortably on the head. I initially felt some discomfort, but after a period of adjustment, I didn't feel any hot or sore spots coming from the headband. You may need some breaks here and there, but you should be able to wear it all day without much fuss.


*Pads:*

The pads size and depth are large enough to fit most ear sizes, and deep enough to keep your ears from bottoming out and pressing against the driver enclosure. The pads are soft fabric, more dense than velour. I can wear the PC38X for many hours and not feel the need to take them off. The alternative velour pads are perhaps a hint more comfortable to due it feeling cooler on the ears.


*Clamp:*

This is the one debatable area in comfort for me, as it tends to be with most Sennheiser headphones. The PC38X isn't exactly super heavy on clamp, but it is moderate and enough for me to feel to stretch it out over some game/dvd cases. I do feel some unwanted pressure from the area around my ears due to the clamp. Not much, but enough to remove the headphones at random intervals to relieve some of that pressure. It's really no big deal, and something you grow accustomed to with Sennheiser headphones. The upside is the very secure fit you will always have with the PC38X. I find that setting the extension to be more than what you feel is your optimal length, can relieve some of that pressure.


*Overall Comfort Impressions:*

The PC38X falls under the list of headphones I can wear all day with a few breaks to relieve some clamp pressure. That's a win in my book, and I consider the PC38X to be generally comfortable overall. If I were to give it one of my old system ratings, I'd say "Very Good" even close to "Great". For most people, it shouldn't fall under anything less than great.



*Noise Control*​
As an open-backed 'acoustic' design, the PC38X isn't for those who want supreme noise control, isolation, and leakage kept to a minimum. It's not the loudest open design out there (you'll find much more sound leak from planarmagnetics), but you definitely don't want to use the PC38X at loud volumes in quiet settings. Behind a closed door, there shouldn't any major issues disturbing others, however. External sources of noise can easily be heard through the headphone, so you may want to consider a closed-backed headphone/headset if external noises bother you.



*Sound*​
I'll be the first to tell you that if/when I need to use a headset over a headphone, sound quality isn't at the top of my necessities. What I mean by that is that I'm not a very good multitasker. If I'm chatting while gaming or otherwise, it's often hard for me to focus on game audio. For example, when I play Call of Duty's Warzone, my game audio is set VERY low in volume, so I can focus on chatting with my mates. Of course, this is opposite of a competitive gaming mindset, where you'll mainly chatter to rely pertinent information about what's going on during the game.

That makes me a casually competitive gamer, where I mainly chat nonsense with my friends, but every once in a while I'll need to relay information to them. So I need a headset's sound quality to be good enough to highlight details and have a great sense of spatial awareness, even with such a limited volume. Does the PC38X pull through? Does it set itself apart from the PC37X/GAME ONE? If you're longing for an improvement over the improvements those headsets claimed over the original PC360, then yes. Yes it does.



Uncompensated:



(Note about the velour pads: My sound impressions were mainly done with the stock pads, as opposed to the spare velour pads. The velour may affect the sound in subtle ways, and if I ever feel comfortable enough to commit to sonic impressions without expectation bias, I'll share the difference. That being said, I DON'T feel comfortable, as it takes me too long to swap the pads, and the slight differences I hear may just be what I THINK is different, not what truly IS different. Hope you guys understand. If you still want to know, I think the bass gets slightly faster in decay, the sound gets airier, and a little more dry/not as full bodied. So I feel the velour pads may be less fleshed out, but more detailed. I'm not 100% convinced this is accurate, so your mileage may vary. Take this with a grain of salt.)

I was sent the graphs to showcase the difference, so extrapolate what you can out of it. For me, looks like there's very little difference in terms of response, other than past 10khz. That still doesn't highlight what I feel may be the body and decay differences, though that may just be expectation bias.





*Bass:*

It's almost like Sennheiser wasn't done with tooling the low end musicality of their open backed headsets. Drop and Sennheiser has once again one upped their previous headset with even MORE musicality, particularly in the bass, where it has allowed the bass to reach even lower than before, as well as flattened out the bass to midrange. It's more balanced, and reaches lower.

While I said much of the same with the GAME ONE, it still wasn't a headset that I could personally just stick to for purposes outside of competitive gaming, including music listening and casual gaming. It does it well enough, but in the back of my mind, I'd want just a little more out of it. The PC38X's deeper bass really puts it much, much closer to my target sound. It's an incredibly enjoyable bass section that does justice to my bass influenced music without it sounding lacking in body or impact.

As far as frequency testing goes, the PC38X remarkably goes all the way down to 20hz. At my desired volume for music, the bass goes very deep down. I've heard planars with less presence down low. That lets you know that the PC38X is not playing around with bringing you information down to the depths. The bass is voluminous at at around 35hz-40hz which is my ideal range for immersive bass rumble. The PC38X is a satisfying headphone, and it doesn't even need to be basshead level to do that. While the PC38X isn't a basshead headphone, it should still satisfy most audiences. The extension and rumble certainly impressed me well enough.


*Midrange to Treble:*

If there is one thing you can almost always count on from Sennheiser, it's that their headphones will inherit a well balanced midrange without any areas of over emphasis, shrillness, or otherwise truly bothersome hotspots. The trend continues on the PC38X. Well balanced is exactly how I hear it, neither being too forward, or too spaced back. It sounds quite natural, linear, and highly detailed. It doesn't sound overly warm, nor dry. It's what I'd consider an ideal forwardness, and tonal character.

Frequency-wise, there is plenty of presence throughout the midrange with a slight dip at 1.5k, but back to good presence all the way up to a 5k peak, which slopes down at 6k, slight rise at 7k to its steepest level in the dip at around 7.5k, back to good presence up to 10k and extends and shimmers all the way up to my hearing limits at 16k. No part of the frequencies from midrange to treble come across overly harsh or piercing, though 5k sticks out the most in the transition from midrange to treble. Based on what I'm personally hearing, the only things I could see as an improvement to the tonal balance, is reducing 5k a few decibels, and raising 7.5k quite a bit. Otherwise, the rest of the sound fantastically present and without any glaring issues.

The spare velour pads shared the same general balance curve with the exact same 5khz peak and 7.5khz dip.

All in all, plenty of detail and sparkle without it feeling overexerted. The high end extension is actually one of the best I've heard in a long time. Usually, just past 10k I start noticing a massive slope into the nether with many headphones. The PC38X manages to continue its airy extension far longer than I would've deemed necessary, which is an absolute, welcome surprise. Considering how so many Sennheiser headphones end up soft and steered downwards in the treble, the PC38X has one leg up in terms of extension and shimmer.


*Soundstage:*

Soundstaging was a strength in the PC360, as well as the GAME ONE/PC37X, and I would've been incredibly surprised if the PC38X failed to deliver on a solid, open soundstage set by its predecessors. Thankfully, my expectations were happily met. Even in stereo, the PC38X sounds fantastically spacious, and holds plenty of air to allow objects in the virtual space to fill the room.

As I tend to mention in my impressions of headphones, soundstaging isn't a trait in headphones I hold to a particularly high standard (in stereo), though it is always a great boon when done well. A great soundstage has been a trademark of the HD5xx line of headphones that started with the HD555 and HD595. It moved on to the HD558 and HD598, and I assume would hold true with the HD599. There's a reason HD5xx line were popular among gamers, and why I believe Sennheiser modeled the PC360 and onwards after them. Soundstaging, and detail retrieval good enough to take advantage of it.

The PC38X can fill out a room quite nicely, and is absolutely brilliant when applying a virtual surround dsp for video games and other media, like movies.

I'll quote what I said of the GAME ONE's soundstage here. I've replaced GAME ONE with the PC38X below, though the statement is accurate to my beliefs, and applies to both.

_"It isn't constricted and kept inside my head, but I'm not one to think that sounds just outside my headspace is considered huge. It is with virtual surround DSPs like Dolby Headphone, and Creative SBX where I can gauge how well a headphone or headset can fool me into thinking sounds are coming from around me as opposed to inside my head. In that regard, the PC38X (like the PC360 and PC37X), throws out a FANTASTICALLY large soundstage with a great sense of space and directionality. The PC38X for virtual surround gaming is an absolute treat. There is clear distance between positional cues in a 360 degree front to back circle. This means the PC38X is in the upper echelons of headphones/headsets tested for positional accuracy when gaming."_


*Clarity:*

Clarity is something one should expect from a top notch gaming headset. For what good is a headset if it can't deliver the clarity needed for voice communication, positional awareness, and minute detail retrieval? The PC38X continues its reign of excellence, with clarity that picks up the subtlest of nuances. As the PC38X isn't truly steered towards warmth, and there is plenty of details all the way up to the upper limits of human hearing, there's little to say about the PC38X that isn't completely positive in regard to clarity. You'll be hard pressed to find anything lacking, other than perhaps a noticeable dip at about 7.5khz which may allow some sounds to come across as subdued if they land in this range. Aside from that extremely small range of sound, the PC38X won't fail to impress. There isn't much out there I've heard that would do better than the PC-38X's immediate clarity without sacrificing too much in other areas.


*Sound Signature:*

The PC38X is on the natural/warm-neutral side of tonal balancing, with bass that is linear and extends quite low, without sounding thin, nor emphasized. I'd consider it bass neutral, which will fit whatever you're listening to. Give EDM with a thumping bass line, and you'll find the PC38X thumping and rumbling with the best of them. Not any more, not any less than needed.

The midrange is also quite linear with a natural voicing, as well as neutral forwardness. It sits perfectly in the middle, neither pushing things forward, nor giving up too many rows backwards in virtual seating. Those that like a forward midrange may want something a bit more intimate, though for anyone else, I doubt they'll find any issues with the presentation.

Treble is detailed, sparkly (if just so), and incredibly well extended. Either than 7.5k hitting a bit softly, there's plenty of shimmer and sharpness throughout without overexertion. One of the best Sennheiser headphones I've heard in this regard.

Overall, I'd find it hard to call the PC38X warm-warm, or bright. It sits in between, if just slightly warm. A testament to Sennheiser's prowess in tonal balancing.



*Microphone*



Sennheiser is known for their great headphones as well as microphones. Thankfully, the PC38X continues this well known fact. I wonder if anything has changed from the PC360 days in terms of the microphone, but regardless, it's fantastic, and should keep your voice quality clean and clear. As you can hear, just like the sound coming off the PC38X's drivers, the microphone is pretty clear, with no sibilance or compression. I don't think anyone would have any real issues with this mic.

Below are a few examples, showcasing how the PC38X's mic sounds through various gear.









*Amplification:*

Gaming headsets shouldn't be hard to drive properly. This general understanding continues with the PC38X. I rarely ever keep my amplifiers in low gain, yet that's precisely what I did with the PC38X, as it sits in the sweet spot of the volume pot, on all of my amplifiers. You really don't need much. The PC38X sounds great off anything you hook it up to. My recommendation is a neutral, clean sounding dac and amp, regardless of power. Something to further aid its sharp detail and focused sound. To anyone worried about numbers, the PC38X is 28ohm, at 108db SPL @ 1khz. Very efficient.



*Gaming*​
Sennheiser headsets of its kind have always been stellar gaming performers. The PC360 was an amazing realization of the HD595 turned headset. The GAME ONE/PC37X succeeded in making such an amazing design more musical and engaging without sacrificing the strong competitive gaming aspects of its sound. The PC38X further dips its toes into musicality and engagement while still remaining faithful to the strong gaming performance needed for competitive play. If you've felt you'd desire a more robust low end and energy from Sennheiser's open headsets, the PC38X should fit that need. The deeper low end (not necessarily bass heavy but well extended bass) really fleshes out the sound that was slightly missing from the GAME ONE/PC37X. It sounds more natural, balanced, and true to life than its predecessors.

The spacious soundstage, sharp details, great tonal balancing, top notch extension both down low and up top make the PC38X a prime candidate for best gaming headset. In virtual surround, the PC38X is among the very best I've heard for accuracy, positional awareness, and object definition. Testing something like Call of Duty's Warzone with both Dolby Headphone 2, and Creative's SBX, I was extremely aware of where all my enemies were coming from, and where all the loot was in my general vicinity. For the PC38X, it's a very simple matter. Just stellar positional cues, soundstage depth, and great imaging. Rest assured, the PC38X is a monster for gaming. You can't do wrong here in choosing the PC38X for all your gaming needs.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

Considering the PC38X hits deeper and sounds more natural than the past few open Sennheiser headsets, I feel the PC38X is the best all rounded open headset of the bunch. This makes it a great choice for a variety of media. That's the strength of having an all rounder. It may not be the best at any one thing, but it works well with everything. If you felt the PC-360, GAME ONE, or PC37X lacking, the PC38X may satisfy you in ways those headsets could not.


*Practicality:*

I'd consider the PC38X to make most sense in an office or home setting. Considering its open backed design, it wouldn't be my first choice for public use. Not that I'd typically consider any headset for outside home use. So if you want to game on a laptop in public, I'd advise the PC38X only in quiet locations.


*Who's It For?*

Personally speaking, I generally wouldn't opt for a headset over a headphone, but if you MUST have a headset, I don't see any reason why you would go for anything else in its price category if you're looking for an open-backed, audiophile level headset. It's a competitive gaming beast, without sacrificing much of casual engagement. It does it all so well.

If you already own the PC37X, perhaps there might not be a pressing need to upgrade unless you want an improvement in the low end extension, and want a more natural sound. Both are incredible at hardcore/competitive gaming. So the question is whether you want your sound to be more fleshed out and enjoyable. If so, then yes, the PC38X is worth the upgrade. Consider it a more perfected form of what Sennheiser would want from an open backed headset.

If you DON'T own the PC37X/GAME ONE, then I would absolutely recommend moving past those and jumping immediately to the PC38X. As far as headsets go, this is the absolute best bang for buck I've heard to date.

You know what I'd like to see? A headphone model of this headset, no mic. It would have my full on recommendation. Yes, the HD58X Jubilee and HD6XX already exist and are highly regarded, but those require and scale with moderate amplification. They're not as efficient, and aren't ideal when used with a larger variety of things like phones, and laptops without at the very least, a decent portable amp. That's where a headphone variant of the PC38X would fit in, for those that don't want a headset/microphone, and don't wanna use an amplifier. There are times I'd love to use the PC38X as a headphone (and I do), but making a product just for that purpose would be fantastic. Personally, I prefer the PC38X over the HD598, so I think it warrants attention. Just something to think about it, Drop.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Great bass and treble extension
Tonal balance
Weight
Volume adjustment dial
Deeper, more natural sound from stock pads
Spare velour pads
Efficient

*Dislikes:*

Initial clamp
TRRS cable could stand to be a little longer
A little peaky at 5khz



*Final Impressions*​
Not one to rest merely with a good product, Drop decided they wanted more than what the PC37X provided. The PC38X was the result. While it may not be leaps and bounds better than the PC37X, it does flesh out and improve on the sound with a better bass extension, and tonal balance, without giving up what makes these headsets so good for competitive gaming.

It's hard to find something to recommend from the Sennheiser camp in terms of Drop variants. I say this because they're ALL good. Sitting firmly within a slew of other Drop x Sennheiser products, all being fantastic, you won't be lacking for options. While not quite reaching the legendary levels of the 6XX, the PC38X fills out its own role as a headset, as well as being quite a bit more efficient, where amplification isn't required. It's always good to have a headset on hand, and I can't think of a better one anywhere near its price range, from any company. You're getting exceptional clarity, great tonal balancing, stellar gaming performance, and plenty of music enjoyment here. The PC38X isn't just a good headset, it's an audiophile level headphone, period. The fact it's more versatile than the other Drop x Sennheiser headphones makes it quite beneficial to fledging audiophiles, or those that just don't want to lug so much gear around.

If you're looking for a no frills, no gimmicks, solid banger of an open-backed headset that is good enough to replace an audiophile headphone, this is it, chief. The PC38X puts so many others to shame.


----------



## Sennheiser

Thanks for the review @Mad Lust Envy, looks like you put a lot of effort into it!


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## Mad Lust Envy

Sennheiser said:


> Thanks for the review @Mad Lust Envy, looks like you put a lot of effort into it!


Thank you so much. I try sometimes


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## Veliladon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wait just over one month....



What exactly are we waiting for? My Mobius shipped finally a few days ago. Are they going to be old hat in a week?


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## tglodjo

@Mad Lust Envy Thanks for the PC38X review. Would definitely go in that direction if I were looking for an entry-level headset. I agree with the headphones over headset perspective shared quite a bit in these forums, but for casual and/or console gamers, the all-in-one nature of a headset it so convenient. And little things, like flip up the mic to mute, go a long way. I'm currently rocking TYGRs with a detachable cable mod for the Beyerdynamic Custom headset mic, but I'm still tempted to give these a shot!

Is this what you've been teasing recently, or am I still waiting?


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## Zachik

@Mad Lust Envy - what do you think about the PC37X and PC38X for calls (connected to my work laptop)? 

Need to be very easy to drive (connected straight to laptop 3.5mm jack)
Must be detailed just so in order to help hear and understand people talking (so bass is not important for that use case, for example)
Mic need to be good (so people can hear me well)
Comfy (I believe this one you did mention in the review and said it was great)
What about me hearing myself talk, so I do not scream to hear my own voice?
I know not exactly the typical use case for gamers headset, but I think in this day and age, where many of us work from home - that is a total legit use case!


----------



## Evshrug

AlBorland said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm still leaning headset, but slowly starting to entertain a headphone+mic combo again.
> 
> My current setup:
> 
> ...


I skipped the Xbox One this generation, so I may not have the most familiarity with tricks or specific settings, but from what I know about the 360 and sound settings in general, your "current setup" probably is the best for now. The Xbox itself could be processing it's own surround into a binaural stereo mix (2.0 because headphones only have 2 "channels," but it has the binaural effect of 7.1 surround directions or Atmos directions "baked in" with the processing), in which case adding the Mixamp's processing on top might make a mess from applying a binaural effect twice. Not saying you're doing that, just check for it, could explain some of the more extreme sounds (but most of the EQ presets are too extreme for me).

Stereo is 1-dimensional... all sounds can only be arranged either left, right, or panned between those two points. Virtual surround DSPs can take a surround mix with distinct positional cues (usually 7.1 surround, which technically is a 2D "ring" around the "seated position."), notably making it possible to distinguish between front and rear emitting sounds. Dolby Atmos and DTS-X have height channels, so now that information becomes distinct. Ray-traced audio is a lot like the visual reflections we see with ray-traced light... an audio "ray" can come from any arbitrary direction (instead of a specific speaker position), and then it _reflects_ off of surfaces in the game environment, so you both get a sense of direction and a sense of the environment. Ray traced audio is the closest to what we actually hear when we walk around town or whatever in real life. With this info, you be the judge: is stereo best for positional sound, or more audio info approaching real life?

I don't think it's that much "off topic" for this thread... headphones are one "half" that I can't talk much about, but "surround gaming" is the other half 





danterikxx said:


> @Evshrug what's your honest opinion on your AKG 612 Pro? are you happy with the level of detail/clarity and engagement you get from games?
> I ask this because i don't know if i should upgrade from them (K702) or not....


Honestly, I can't share my opinion on other brands because right now I have ties to Sennheiser (and Dekoni). What I can say is I am happy with the PC37X that I got and reviewed before I began helping Sennheiser with community management, and to this day I still use it with my iPad for PUBG mobile as well as a few other things (*Ahem* @Zachik I'm getting to you), though switching to my HD 800 is an obvious upgrade in details and immersion-through-realism. The $120-$200 USD price segment is very capable, but better is possible.




ricardovix said:


> Hello guys! I have a Sennheiser HD598 paired with an Sennheiser GSX1000 soundcard, which I use exclusively to play PC games (nothing competitive and I don't hear music or watch movies), but I'm thinking about get rid of these cables, so I'm looking for something wireless. Is there a wireless headset as good or better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for gaming?


Well, just mentioning, the EPOS Audio GSP 670 is a wireless closed-back headset with 7.1 surround (Dolby?). It has bluetooth for connecting with your phone, but it includes a separate wireless USB dongle for connecting to your computer instead of through Bluetooth, for lag-free audio and no degradation when enabling your microphone. I haven't heard it myself, but it does use Sennheiser transducers/drivers, and you can ask @Yethal for user impressions.




Zachik said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - what do you think about the PC37X and PC38X for calls (connected to my work laptop)?
> 
> Need to be very easy to drive (connected straight to laptop 3.5mm jack)
> Must be detailed just so in order to help hear and understand people talking (so bass is not important for that use case, for example)
> ...


I use my PC37X for VOIP calls all the time, I prefer it over my computer's built-in mics or even my phone's mic. I've even used it for voice-overs in a few of the videos I did for Dekoni. I wasn't playing music/audio the whole time, but there have been a couple times this summer where I simply wore it all day. The clamp is snug, but there's no hard or hot spots over time, for me (my balding head particularly appreciates the headband padding).
If you're talking about mic-monitoring or sidetone, these analog headsets don't have that (the GSX 1000 or other accessories can add this feature), but they are open-backed ear cups so your own voice is only slightly quieter than when you're not wearing any headset... certainly you won't typically "scream" as compared to a closed headphone with no sidetone, unless you're like my one friend who simply has a very loud speaking voice


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> I use my PC37X for VOIP calls all the time, I prefer it over my computer's built-in mics or even my phone's mic. I've even used it for voice-overs in a few of the videos I did for Dekoni. I wasn't playing music/audio the whole time, but there have been a couple times this summer where I simply wore it all day. The clamp is snug, but there's no hard or hot spots over time, for me (my balding head particularly appreciates the headband padding).
> If you're talking about mic-monitoring or sidetone, these analog headsets don't have that (the GSX 1000 or other accessories can add this feature), but they are open-backed ear cups so your own voice is only slightly quieter than when you're not wearing any headset... certainly you won't typically "scream" as compared to a closed headphone with no sidetone, unless you're like my one friend who simply has a very loud speaking voice


Thanks buddy. I am now wondering if being open back is an issue - many times my GF and I have conf. calls at the same time, and we're working 3 feet from each other... hmmmm.... I guess I thought for some reason those are closed backs...
Still, very useful info, and something to think about.


----------



## Evshrug

Well, the microphones won’t pick up eachother’s calls, but even if you have a closed headset the mic should pick up a quiet version of someone talking from 3 feet away. It would be background noise, but it wouldn’t sound like you were alone.

If you are FREQUENTLY placing calls at the same time, it would be best to look at professional headsets designed for call centers. They deal with exactly that kind of environment. And EPOS does make products for that: https://en-us.sennheiser.com/headsets


----------



## Zachik

Zachik said:


> my GF and I have conf. calls at the same time, and we're working 3 feet from each other...





Evshrug said:


> Well, the microphones won’t pick up eachother’s calls, but even if you have a closed headset the mic should pick up a quiet version of someone talking from 3 feet away. It would be background noise, but it wouldn’t sound like you were alone.


The issue is not my mic picking up her voice. I am worried the sound leakage from my (open back) earcups would bother her. 
That would be a bigger issue actually when I have a call and she does not. Not when we have calls at the same time.


----------



## RXShadow

So I had my HD598 break down on me yesterday after using for a very extensive period. Although I’ve tried many other headphones during this time, I keep coming back to this due to shear comfort alone, especially for gaming.

The weird thing about me is that I find comfort probably the most important aspect of a headphone, even sometimes above sound and tone. I know it sounds very unprofessional and stupid from my part. It’s also I largely find many headphones to not really suit my head, especially in clamp force and some feel like it’s an oven for my ears.

The thing is I’m also very adventurous and still want to try something new. Is there any recommendation you guys would give to maybe consider? Preferably with a neutral signature, isolation doesn’t matter much. I was originally gonna wait for the PS5 and decide by then, but now I don’t have much of a choice.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Takstar HF 580 planar magnetic headphones with Avia ear pads, both sold by Aliexpress.


----------



## Gun21

jincuteguy said:


> Ok got my Topping DX7 Pro DAC today, and i tested out the Optical from the X3.  And there was no VSS coming from the X3 optical.



You've got to fiddle around, but you can get VSS out to an external DAC via optical. It's in the speakers option with headphone virtualization checked. Stupid, yes.

Quick question: MLE, why haven't you ever reviewed the HD800 or HD800S? 

Asking the big questions


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Because they haven't sent them to me. Trust me, I REALLY want to try them out. @Sennheiser, I'm waiting. 

I've been wanting to review the HD800/S for...ever.


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## Gun21 (Sep 24, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Because they haven't sent them to me. Trust me, I REALLY want to try them out. @Sennheiser, I'm waiting.
> 
> I've been wanting to review the HD800/S for...ever.


I'm in the UK, if I was in the US I'd send them to you in a flash for a review. Also, if you can get your mitts on a pair, the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 II is really good.

Edit: sent them this. Fingers crossed.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 24, 2020)

Gun21 said:


> I'm in the UK, if I was in the US I'd send them to you in a flash for a review. Also, if you can get your mitts on a pair, the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 II is really good.
> 
> Edit: sent them this. Fingers crossed.


I reviewed the MMX300 version II. On the first page. Though it was through headphone.guru. So it links to there.


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## Gun21 (Sep 26, 2020)

Argh!! Forgive me, missed it. Very nice review of the Beyerdynamic MMX 300 II. Btw, I got a set of Dekoni pads (as per Zeos' review) and they are very very comfortable with that extra depth for the ears, nice cushioning, and that wee bit of extra oomph with the sound doesn't go amiss. Not cheap though.

**Edit:* I hope I wasn't embarrassing you with me getting in touch with Sennheiser with the above post, but your guides just wouldn't be complete without a review of the HD800S.


----------



## Seazer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I reviewed the MMX300 version II. On the first page. Though it was through headphone.guru. So it links to there.



Can you try to get a 560S in to test? I'd love to hear the thoughts against the PC38X, it seems like none of the reviewers with the 560S seem to have heard the PC38X yet (besides Zeos but his lips are currently sealed)


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## Trancefreak (Sep 26, 2020)

About the Senny PC38x.
I can't find it on Senheiser's website, is this because it's essentially a Drop product?
Further on, I both have a Mobius and a MMX300 Gen1, how would you rate the senny against these 2?

See, I have this dilemma: my second Mobius just cracked and I'd like to replace it now.
I've lost trust in the product, yet it fulfilled all my needs ( and more )
So now I don't just have to seek out a replacement headphone/set yet also a gaming soundcard with similar capabilities as the Mobius ( minus the head tracking I guess ).

I'm a bit at a loss, since I've sold all my previous usb sound solutions and Since I'm on a ITX I can't use PCIe cards.

Halp ?


----------



## JayDee12

I am so tired of researching in this hobby and am hoping for help. After 1+ month of research, I am simply fed up. So many contrasting opinions. Ive seen both extreme negatives and positives of the same headphones for so many products that its driving me insane. I just want to be done with this hobby and never look back. I am looking for gaming headphones. FPS/competitive games mostly.

I hated the SHP9600's sound and fit. Very loose, very muffled sounds.

I hear the SHP9500 sounds better than X2HR for gaming (FPS competitive) but the 9600s made me doubt that. Does the 9500 sound very different from 9600 and is it worth trying? My worry is that if 9600 is loose, 9500 will be too.

I want to stick with Philips cuz of the V Moda Boom Pro.  I have the X2Hr and they arent bad, but I keep wanting more accurate headphones for fps games.

Is the HD 599 a better option? K702? I hear imaging/sound for 702 is not that good for gaming.

Im stuck deciding now between DT 880/990 or HD 599. My issue with the DTs are the non detachable cable. 

Everything sucks anyway since nothing is compatible with a mic, so now I begrudingly will get a desktop mic if i go with HD 599 or DT 880/990 or 702.

Alternatively, i stick with the X2HR. But knowing that I can get headphones that are superior for gaming needs bothers me, and i feel like im making a bad purchase with the X2
*
So I ask kindly, can you guys help me decide between SHP9500, X2HR, HD 599, DT 880/990, or K702?*


The other big wrinkle is I want to use this on consoles like PS4 and PS5 too and i know this will create issues with impedence if Im running things thru the controller. but if i connect this headphones via usb to the console itself, will i be fine? 

Thanks y'all.


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## illram (Sep 26, 2020)

JayDee12 said:


> I am so tired of researching in this hobby and am hoping for help. After 1+ month of research, I am simply fed up. So many contrasting opinions. Ive seen both extreme negatives and positives of the same headphones for so many products that its driving me insane. I just want to be done with this hobby and never look back. I am looking for gaming headphones. FPS/competitive games mostly.
> 
> I hated the SHP9600's sound and fit. Very loose, very muffled sounds.
> 
> ...



Everyone has different opinions but you're not going to get a huge improvement over the X2 in its price range particularly if you need to stick with something that can use the boom pro. I have the old non HR set (I believe it's essentially the same?) and they're pretty good. I mean maaaaaaaybe try a cheap planar like the 400i or something? Narrower stage but super accurate imaging. If you want to truly reach endgame then just bite the bullet and buy a used HD800S or something.....

What's your source? I'd try different DSP's and see if that improves things first.


----------



## JayDee12

illram said:


> Everyone has different opinions but you're not going to get a huge improvement over the X2 in its price range particularly if you need to stick with something that can use the boom pro. I have the old non HR set (I believe it's essentially the same?) and they're pretty good. I mean maaaaaaaybe try a cheap planar like the 400i or something? Narrower stage but super accurate imaging. If you want to truly reach endgame then just bite the bullet and buy a used HD800S or something.....
> 
> What's your source? I'd try different DSP's and see if that improves things first.


Source is PS4/PS5 via usb or their controllers. I also have a PC and the MOBO is a asrock z77 pro3

So the DT 880, HD 599, and K702 arent marginally better than the X2? I am willing to forfeit the v-moda mic and get a desktop mic if the 3 mentioned headphones are better for imaging/footstep audio, etc.

I dont want to spend $1K for the 800S


----------



## illram (Sep 26, 2020)

Marginally better is subjective and I am going off memory from prior use of all of those headphones, but I can tell you if you're just using stereo sound, none of those headphones will radically improve footstep source or direction or anything like that. Just using an equalizer or a game's sound settings can improve footstep sounds (not direction) if that's all you want. E.g. "low boost" in Modern Warfare. Just boost the frequency of footsteps, no need for different cans.

But beyond that I'd recommend putting your money into a virtual surround solution, as it sounds like you are just using 2 channel source audio right now. A G6 for example is the same price or cheaper than some of the headphones you're considering buying. That will be the biggest improvement. I mean, that's what this thread is all about. There are a couple free solutions on PC you could demo as well. E.g. HeSuVi.


----------



## danterikxx

how is the FiiO K5 Pro?

any good alternative?


----------



## tglodjo (Sep 26, 2020)

JayDee12 said:


> I am so tired of researching in this hobby and am hoping for help. After 1+ month of research, I am simply fed up. So many contrasting opinions. Ive seen both extreme negatives and positives of the same headphones for so many products that its driving me insane. I just want to be done with this hobby and never look back. I am looking for gaming headphones. FPS/competitive games mostly.



If you're focusing on competitive play, the 880 would be the best option. I've used all headphones you've listed other than K702. The 880 is bright (some people don't like this), but that makes them even better for competitive shooters because sounds like footsteps are emphasized. It also has near the best imaging and sound stage you'll get in this price range. The 990 is a bassier headphone, which is more "fun" for casual gaming but not ideal for competitive. Unless you're able to find a 32ohm 880 though, the most common sets I see for sale (used and new) are 250 and 600, which means you'd need an amp to drive them to get their fullest potential.

My personal preference for competitive (and some casual) gaming is the new Beyerdynamic TYGR. They're a good mix between the 880 and 990. And the imaging is amazing. It's also 32ohm, so it works well with console controllers. If you're budget can stretch to this, I highly recommend it over all other options you've mentioned.

As for V-Moda boom pro compatibility, I was in the same boat as you. I used a 9500 for a few years thinking I didn't really have other options, but I've since learned more about the hobby. For the Senns, you can get an adapter or a different boom mic cable that fits the 2.5mm jack it has, which is a plus. The Beyerdynamics can also be modded to use a detachable cable. Just search "beyerdynamic detachable cable mod" and you'll get plenty of hits. It's easy enough to do if you have experience soldering, but Demevalos (who wrote one of the guides) offers the service for $75 through his Etsy store.

I currently use a TYGR with the detachable cable mod for both PC and console competitive gaming. Highly recommend it. It is a little pricier, but if you consider the price of an amp if you went with the 880, or the price of a desktop mic, then it's comparable overall, and even better if you're able to do the mod yourself.

EDIT: I also use a Soundblaster G6 amp/dac with my PS4, though I've used the TYGRs with the controller too and they still work great.


----------



## JayDee12

tglodjo said:


> If you're focusing on competitive play, the 880 would be the best option. I've used all headphones you've listed other than K702. The 880 is bright (some people don't like this), but that makes them even better for competitive shooters because sounds like footsteps are emphasized. It also has near the best imaging and sound stage you'll get in this price range. The 990 is a bassier headphone, which is more "fun" for casual gaming but not ideal for competitive. Unless you're able to find a 32ohm 880 though, the most common sets I see for sale (used and new) are 250 and 600, which means you'd need an amp to drive them to get their fullest potential.
> 
> My personal preference for competitive (and some casual) gaming is the new Beyerdynamic TYGR. They're a good mix between the 880 and 990. And the imaging is amazing. It's also 32ohm, so it works well with console controllers. If you're budget can stretch to this, I highly recommend it over all other options you've mentioned.
> 
> ...


Thank you but unfortunately I cant find the TYGR 300 R anywhere in canada. it wont ship from their stores either. so frustrating.

As for the 880, is 32 Ohm worth it for my needs? (gaming). I dont care about listening to music or movies.

Should I just settle for the 9500?


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Something else. But I can't discuss.


I joined this forum today specifically to comment on this. It's almost a month later.... 

I ordered the Mobius yesterday to see what planar magnetic headphones are all about. Should I return them and wait for something better to be released?


----------



## danterikxx

doubt it will be better than the 560s


----------



## Fegefeuer

If going by the old scores it might get a whole number more in competitive or fun! I HOPE MLE HAS A GOOOOD SCORE NUMBER READY FOR THIS. WANNA SEE THE NUMBERS.


----------



## JayDee12 (Sep 26, 2020)

Arghhhh. OK new idea: Should I get the PC37x instead over the 9500? Or should I wait for the PC38x?

For competitive gaming, hearing footsteps, etc., are the PC37x/38x better than 9500?

Edit: Ok Ive decided to go with the PC37x

However I want to wait for 38x and see if they are going to better for competitive games. Otherwise Ill stick with the 37x.

I know this Mr Mad Lust guy reviewed it and loved it, but does he have thoughts on the 37x? Also, how long do I have to wait for the 38x to come out exactly? Im in Canada so I hope the shipping isnt too much from Drop if i go for the 38x

Last question: Are these headsets based on headphones that Sennheiser releases better than normal headsets like the ones offered from HyperX and Arctis? They are still "headphone" headsets right?


----------



## Chastity

JayDee12 said:


> Arghhhh. OK new idea: Should I get the PC37x instead over the 9500? Or should I wait for the PC38x?
> 
> For competitive gaming, hearing footsteps, etc., are the PC37x/38x better than 9500?
> 
> ...


Have you looked at Antlion Modmics?  My solution is a pair of DT-1990 Pro and a Modmic Uni.  Tho, tbh, the Senn headset offerings would be a cut above the normal collection of gamer headsets.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 27, 2020)

JayDee12 said:


> Arghhhh. OK new idea: Should I get the PC37x instead over the 9500? Or should I wait for the PC38x?
> 
> For competitive gaming, hearing footsteps, etc., are the PC37x/38x better than 9500?
> 
> ...


The Sennheiser Game One IS the PC37X, just different color and outer cup design. And I reviewed the Game One, so that's my opinion on the 37X.


As for the 'other' headphone that is upcoming, I haven't finished yet, and their release was pushed back slightly. I'm hoping to finish the review within the next few days, but I can't post until the release date which is weeks from now.


Apparently I'm supposed to also be getting the Penrose any day now as well, which I'll be super happy to test out, though I don't expect any major sound difference from the Mobius, other than wireless signal quality being better than the Bluetooth on the Mobius. I'll expect the Mobius to sound better while it's attached via usb though, though the Penrose works for consoles.


----------



## kadinh (Sep 27, 2020)

I think the review for the PC38x has convinced me to get them. I was considering the GSP600 with a GSX1000 amp to use on the PS4, but I’ve never had any open back headphones so I’m willing to try them out. I’m tempted to get the GSP500 right now, but I’m going to wait for the 38x. I’ve also decided I want an amp to go with the PS4/PS5 too and think I’m set on the SBX G6. I might play some games on PC in the future but 99% will be on console.

My previous setup was a TB 800 elite which kept losing connection, then I went wired Arctic 5 over USB. Used them for a year or two, then I wanted something a little better so i chose the HyperX Revolver S. I like them, but i still have a hard time picking out footsteps in Apex Legends while using stereo and their Dolby 7.1 surround feature.

I was considering the Arctic Pro + DAC but something seemed fishy about how many reviews they had and recent reviews were really critical. I also wanted to move away from Arctic.

I also have ordered the Audeze Mobius to see what all this “planar” stuff is about. I’ve seen mixed reviews on them as well but the positive ones are POSITIVE. Might send them back depending on performance or if something updated comes out in October.
Any opinions and suggestions about my decisions are welcome! I’m always eager to learn more since I don’t have very much experience.


----------



## Seazer

JayDee12 said:


> Arghhhh. OK new idea: Should I get the PC37x instead over the 9500? Or should I wait for the PC38x?
> 
> For competitive gaming, hearing footsteps, etc., are the PC37x/38x better than 9500?
> 
> ...


if you dont like the shp9600 please don't buy the 9500. I would say the 38x looks very nice, and it has the bonus of a sennheiser mic, which imo is one of the best headset mics available (i think it sounds better than a modmic for example)



kadinh said:


> I think the review for the PC38x has convinced me to get them. I was considering the GSP600 with a GSX1000 amp to use on the PS4, but I’ve never had any open back headphones so I’m willing to try them out. I’m tempted to get the GSP500 right now, but I’m going to wait for the 38x. I’ve also decided I want an amp to go with the PS4/PS5 too and think I’m set on the SBX G6. I might play some games on PC in the future but 99% will be on console.
> 
> My previous setup was a TB 800 elite which kept losing connection, then I went wired Arctic 5 over USB. Used them for a year or two, then I wanted something a little better so i chose the HyperX Revolver S. I like them, but i still have a hard time picking out footsteps in Apex Legends while using stereo and their Dolby 7.1 surround feature.
> 
> ...


closed back planars are tricky business, hard to do right


----------



## JayDee12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Sennheiser Game One IS the PC37X, just different color and outer cup design. And I reviewed the Game One, so that's my opinion on the 37X.



Thanks, would you overall say the sound for competitive gaming is significantly better to make the 38x a better pick than the cheaper 37x? I feel like I'm not someone who would notice or care about the headphones being more well rounded/geared better towards musicality.

Additionally, for an all-rounder, my intention would be to get the cheaper 37X and then the X2HR for music/media down the road. Unless you'd caution otherwise, I think Im going to get the 37X for the gaming benefits. I dont know much about drivers or anything technical like that, but would I be missing out severely if I am opting out of the GSP drivers the 38x is based on? Thanks!


----------



## kadinh

I’m thinking the same thing: get the P37x now (I don’t think I can wait 6 months for the 38x to come out) or get the newer drivers in the GSP 500 (look doesn’t bother me). I have heard tho that the GSP 500 dont really benefit much from an amp; I’m deciding between the Fulla and G6, think I will get Fulla.


----------



## JayDee12

6 months?? In that case Ill just go for the 37X

One last question: I want a shorter cable for the 37x when used on console. But i cant tell which will work between: https://www.eposaudio.com/en/ca/gaming/products/unp-console-cable-gaming-cable-506507

and 

https://www.eposaudio.com/en/ca/gaming/products/gsa-506-gaming-cable-507294

One of them is 2 ringed and the other is 3 ringed. Would the mic work with the 2 ringed? What's the difference and which will work on my ps4 controller? Thanks


----------



## kadinh

JayDee12 said:


> 6 months?? In that case Ill just go for the 37X
> 
> One last question: I want a shorter cable for the 37x when used on console. But i cant tell which will work between: https://www.eposaudio.com/en/ca/gaming/products/unp-console-cable-gaming-cable-506507
> 
> ...


if i remember correctly, 2 ring/3 pole is R/L/Ground and the 3 ring/4 pole/TRRS will be Mic/L/R/Ground.

Geez......

After investigating so much about headphones and amps and worrying which one I could be satisfied with, I feel like just getting the HD00S and be done with it. But then I would need an amp to power it and amazing source material.....

Sorry for my constant posts, I’m not patient at all and I’m anxious to find a solution I love.


----------



## Prpnnightmare

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Sennheiser Game One IS the PC37X, just different color and outer cup design. And I reviewed the Game One, so that's my opinion on the 37X.
> 
> 
> As for the 'other' headphone that is upcoming, I haven't finished yet, and their release was pushed back slightly. I'm hoping to finish the review within the next few days, but I can't post until the release date which is weeks from now.
> ...



Thanks for the update. Do you know if it's possible to use Dolby Atmos Headphone through Windows with the Mobius?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 28, 2020)

Prpnnightmare said:


> Thanks for the update. Do you know if it's possible to use Dolby Atmos Headphone through Windows with the Mobius?


Yes. Find a method to dolby headphone (like an Asus Xonar U3), and attach the Mobius aux input into the line out on the Xonar U3. Since the Mobius has its own amp, you can literally connect the Mobius to any line out. Since the U3 can pass DH through the line out, it's a simple way to do it.

Of course, it's not the most ideal way to use the Mobius, but it works.

Then there's the HeSuVi method, but I won't get into that, and I don't like the process of it either.


----------



## mightytison

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Below *is my review of the Drop + THX Panda. As stated in the review, it is a PRE-PRODUCTION UNIT, and things are subject to change. I was not paid by Drop or THX or anyone. They simply sent me the headphones for review, THAT IS IT.


On the fence between Penrose and Panda as I would like a wireless headphone that could go between my PC and PS5 when it comes out. Assuming I can add a dongle that will work with PS5 and that Penrose ultimately will sound much like the Mobius which would you personally choose? I want to get in on the preorder for one of them and can't hear either so it's a tough decision. From what you've said I feel like your sound preference for gaming is similar to mine so I thought I would ask.


----------



## stavros.m

Has anyone used the HIFIMAN DEVA and could share the experience. I am looking at changing my dt 990's for something different. It will be used primary for single player games


----------



## PurpleAngel

stavros.m said:


> Has anyone used the HIFIMAN DEVA and could share the experience. I am looking at changing my dt 990's for something different. It will be used primary for single player games


Takstar HF 580 planar magnetic headphones and Sendyaudio Avia ear pads.


----------



## kadinh

Is the "wait for a few weeks" comment aimed at the release of the Senn HD 560S?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kadinh said:


> Is the "wait for a few weeks" comment aimed at the release of the Senn HD 560S?


Nope.

I'll say it's a planarmagnetic, and it's not the Penrose.

Also, it'll be the one I tell people to get if they REALLY wanna know what planarmagnetic is like and haven't experienced one.

As good as closed planars are, the real magic occurs when a planarmagnetic is really, REALLY open, with big drivers.

The upcoming one just sounds so different from a dynamic driver, it's incredibly impressive.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nope.
> 
> I'll say it's a planarmagnetic, and it's not the Penrose.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I'm listening to the Mobius right now and I'm not blown away. I have seen that planar headphones sound better with open backs. I'm interested in open backs (never experienced them before) for music and gaming. I'll be watching this thread closely to see when an announcement is made


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Also, it'll be the one I tell people to get if they REALLY wanna know what planarmagnetic is like and haven't experienced one.


You are such a tease!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, I want people to tune in. Of course I'm gonna tease y'all.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, I want people to tune in. Of course I'm gonna tease y'all.


Do you know more or less how much longer you need to wait until we can haz them?


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nope.
> 
> I'll say it's a planarmagnetic, and it's not the Penrose.
> 
> ...



Can you tell us a price range i am looking to replace my dt 990 so i am curious if it falls in my price range then i will definitely wait


----------



## kadinh

stavros.m said:


> Can you tell us a price range i am looking to replace my dt 990 so i am curious if it falls in my price range then i will definitely wait


YES! I would like to know as well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

220. A few weeks more.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Is it the Miragetech Carbojack Mk II?


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 220. A few weeks more.


WOW! Now I'm DEFINITELY interested!


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 220. A few weeks more.


Definitely waiting now


----------



## Chastity

kadinh said:


> I’m thinking the same thing: get the P37x now (I don’t think I can wait 6 months for the 38x to come out) or get the newer drivers in the GSP 500 (look doesn’t bother me). I have heard tho that the GSP 500 dont really benefit much from an amp; I’m deciding between the Fulla and G6, think I will get Fulla.


Creative's site has Refurbished G6 for $80.  Something to consider.

https://us.creative.com/p/refurbished/sound-blasterx-g6-b-stock


----------



## LupusWolf

Not sure if anyone will get this, but what are your thoughts on transforming any headphone into a bluetooth headphone with the FiiO BTR5 and similar devices? They would work for gaming due to aptx ll and I guess to get the most out of battery life you would need some very easy to drive headphones. One feature I'm unsure of is the microphone quality on the BTR5 or even when a headset is connected to it.


----------



## kadinh

Chastity said:


> Creative's site has Refurbished G6 for $80.  Something to consider.
> 
> https://us.creative.com/p/refurbished/sound-blasterx-g6-b-stock


I ended up ordering a G6 to see what I think of it. Depending on what the PS5 has will determine if I keep it or get something different. Schiit stack has really interested me too because I enjoy listening to music and discovering new nuances in songs that I’ve heard thousands of times and hearing things i never heard in them.


----------



## Yondaime

Hello everyone. Thx to mad lust for a great review like this.

I have used logitech g930, kingston hyperx cloud 2 before. For a year, using sennheiser hd599 with creative omni sound blaster and zalman mic. 

I'm mostly gaming and its generally competitive fps games like warzone. I love how hd 599 sounds. Mids are great, positional audio is enough and I enjoy using it in films and listening lossless audio with being so alive.

But problem is i need a microphone yet zalman nc1 one is making cables complex and ruining comfort.

What do you suggest me to do? Should i go wireless? I cant afford more than 300 bucks 

I was thinking to going for a headset. What do you think about steelseries arctis pro and gamedac. Can get them for 200 bucks.


----------



## danterikxx

are planars better than dynamics for gaming?



Yondaime said:


> Hello everyone. Thx to mad lust for a great review like this.
> 
> I have used logitech g930, kingston hyperx cloud 2 before. For a year, using sennheiser hd599 with creative omni sound blaster and zalman mic.
> 
> ...



you could try the new PC38X if you really want a mic


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

danterikxx said:


> are planars better than dynamics for gaming?


There's no right or wrong answer there. Headphone to headphone basis. I do vastly prefer planar over dynamic for practically everything, however.


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> There's no right or wrong answer there. Headphone to headphone basis. I do vastly prefer planar over dynamic for practically everything, however.



what makes you like them more? Bass response and clarity?


----------



## Yondaime (Oct 1, 2020)

danterikxx said:


> you could try the new PC38X if you really want a mic



Well its not available for now and I bet it wont cost less than  200 bucks with shipping and taxes.

What do you think about hyperx cloud s, g pro x and arctis pro + gamedac?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

danterikxx said:


> what makes you like them more? Bass response and clarity?


It's almost impossible to mess up planar bass response. The driver size is on a whole other level from dynamic drivers. Planars tend to sound more organic and lifelike.

Dynamic drivers tend to do better in terms of soundstage width and air, but planars have better depth and imaging.

I think aside from soundstaging, I doubt most people would choose dynamic over planar. You actually feel the movement of air on a planar when the bass hits. It's surreal.


----------



## Radio81

LupusWolf said:


> Not sure if anyone will get this, but what are your thoughts on transforming any headphone into a bluetooth headphone with the FiiO BTR5 and similar devices? They would work for gaming due to aptx ll and I guess to get the most out of battery life you would need some very easy to drive headphones. One feature I'm unsure of is the microphone quality on the BTR5 or even when a headset is connected to it.



Do it.  I have a BTR3K strapped to my X2HR headphones.  I feed the output of a Magni 3 to a BT transmitter > BTR3K.  AptX-LL.  I've also tried it from the output of a Creative Soundblaster G5 with great results.  To get the most out of battery life, I max out the volume on my Magni 3 and then I usually keep the BTR3K around 25-27 volume (max is 32).  I wanted the BTR5 but due to size and weight I think it would have been too heavy to strap to my headphones.  I've read the BT signal is much more stable on the BTR3K, but don't know if that's completely true.  Not sure of max battery life, but it's gone 5-6 hours without issue.  Haven't played longer than that to see just how much life I can get from it.

I can't speak for the mic quality, as I use a modmic wireless, which I also fully recommend if you want a fully wireless BT setup.


----------



## danterikxx

Yondaime said:


> Well its not available for now and I bet it wont cost less than  200 bucks with shipping and taxes.
> 
> What do you think about hyperx cloud s, g pro x and arctis pro + gamedac?



i have no idea

i only use headphones, but if i were to use headsets, i'd always use models from Sennheiser, like the one i mentioned, ir the Game One


----------



## LupusWolf

Radio81 said:


> Do it.  I have a BTR3K strapped to my X2HR headphones.  I feed the output of a Magni 3 to a BT transmitter > BTR3K.  AptX-LL.  I've also tried it from the output of a Creative Soundblaster G5 with great results.  To get the most out of battery life, I max out the volume on my Magni 3 and then I usually keep the BTR3K around 25-27 volume (max is 32).  I wanted the BTR5 but due to size and weight I think it would have been too heavy to strap to my headphones.  I've read the BT signal is much more stable on the BTR3K, but don't know if that's completely true.  Not sure of max battery life, but it's gone 5-6 hours without issue.  Haven't played longer than that to see just how much life I can get from it.
> 
> I can't speak for the mic quality, as I use a modmic wireless, which I also fully recommend if you want a fully wireless BT setup.


Ayy, I'm also using a ModMic wireless, but still using wired for my T50rps! I've been trying to figure out which bluetooth receiver to use with it, but the problem is that the T50s are a bit harder to drive compared to other headphones. If you need 25-27 with a max of 32 on the BTR3K with the X2s, I'm going to assume I would have to up my  power to the BTR5 which with the size and weight would make comfort a real problem. It would also probably affect battery life as well to keep it at a higher volume.

Also, I used to use the Fidelio X2s with a wired ModMic and I loved how I didn't even need to use the base clamps with it and that the magnet worked on the mesh.  Meant you had full range of placement on them bad boys. Had to return the X2s due to quality control issues tho. Are you using a base clamp or just sticking that ModMic wireless to the mesh? The ModMic wireless is only a bit heavier than the wired mod mics so I assume it should still be okay.


----------



## Radio81

LupusWolf said:


> Ayy, I'm also using a ModMic wireless, but still using wired for my T50rps! I've been trying to figure out which bluetooth receiver to use with it, but the problem is that the T50s are a bit harder to drive compared to other headphones. If you need 25-27 with a max of 32 on the BTR3K with the X2s, I'm going to assume I would have to up my  power to the BTR5 which with the size and weight would make comfort a real problem. It would also probably affect battery life as well to keep it at a higher volume.
> 
> Also, I used to use the Fidelio X2s with a wired ModMic and I loved how I didn't even need to use the base clamps with it and that the magnet worked on the mesh.  Meant you had full range of placement on them bad boys. Had to return the X2s due to quality control issues tho. Are you using a base clamp or just sticking that ModMic wireless to the mesh? The ModMic wireless is only a bit heavier than the wired mod mics so I assume it should still be okay.



I use the clasp that it comes with.  I don't think you can stick the mic directly to the mesh because the clasp is the magnet.  You need it to hold the mic in place.


----------



## LupusWolf

Radio81 said:


> I use the clasp that it comes with.  I don't think you can stick the mic directly to the mesh because the clasp is the magnet.  You need it to hold the mic in place.


That's strange, both the base clasp and the clasp on the ModMic wireless are magnetic. I remember using the ModMic on the X2 directly without the base clasp which was convenient since they charge like $8 + shipping for just 3 base clasps. The mesh should be a metal that magnets can stick to. Try just sticking it on the mesh because I'm sure it should be able to stick and you can probably use the base clasp with another headphone! From what I remember it didn't scratch the metal, but if you're afraid of that, that's understandable.


----------



## danterikxx

any opinions on the Dac X6 MK II?

need something to power my AKG K702. they need more power than what the SMSL M3 can provide


----------



## Radio81

LupusWolf said:


> That's strange, both the base clasp and the clasp on the ModMic wireless are magnetic. I remember using the ModMic on the X2 directly without the base clasp which was convenient since they charge like $8 + shipping for just 3 base clasps. The mesh should be a metal that magnets can stick to. Try just sticking it on the mesh because I'm sure it should be able to stick and you can probably use the base clasp with another headphone! From what I remember it didn't scratch the metal, but if you're afraid of that, that's understandable.



I just tried it.  You are correct, the mic side is magnetic.  It worked, but there's a lot of play in the up and down movement without the base.


----------



## LupusWolf

Radio81 said:


> I just tried it.  You are correct, the mic side is magnetic.  It worked, but there's a lot of play in the up and down movement without the base.


Aw that sucks. I guess the wireless version is just a bit too heavy for doing that. Remember it being a huge convenience not having a base clamp ruin the aesthetics of the headphones.


----------



## Prpnnightmare

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 220. A few weeks more.



This might be too pointed, but are we talking USB or Aux?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Prpnnightmare said:


> This might be too pointed, but are we talking USB or Aux?


Aux. It's a standard headphone.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Aux. It's a standard headphone.


Are they from Audeze?


----------



## kadinh

Yondaime said:


> What do you think about hyperx cloud s, g pro x and arctis pro + gamedac?


What are you looking for in a gaming headset? I have had TB 800, Arctis 5, HyperX Revolver S, Audeze Mobius, and trying out HD 660S with G6 amp/DAC currently. I have found that pretty much every headset has its pros and cons, to find the ones that make YOU happy, it just depends on what you’re going to use them for and what your expectations are.


----------



## JayDee12

After excruciating months searching, and trying the 9600 and X2HR, I have settled on the PC37X. 

Sounds good, and the attached mic is just so convenient. I was satisfied with the X2HR but wanted the best I could get for FPS gaming. However, now Ill surely upgrade to PC38x

For "headphones" that are good for music, movies, and single player games, Ill probably eventually buy the X2HR again.


----------



## yugnat

Hoping I could get some opinions on what my upgrade path should be for my console gaming rig.  I play online competitive almost exclusively, for the last 4 years I've been on the PS4 Pro using an X7 Limited with AKG K712 and a 6 year old wired ModMic.  Completely happy but I'm switching back to XBox with the Series X release and want to upgrade the audio since its been so long since I've tried something new.  At this point I'm still confused if I should stick with an external VSS box or if the XSX's internal spatial surround will be better - and let me go out USB straight to something like a Schiit  Hel.  Anyways, don't want to get ahead of myself there.  What higher end setups are looking good for Series X based on what we know of it so far?  I know its prudent to wait and see but waiting for Nov 10 to roll around has really given me the itch.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

yugnat said:


> Hoping I could get some opinions on what my upgrade path should be for my console gaming rig.  I play online competitive almost exclusively, for the last 4 years I've been on the PS4 Pro using an X7 Limited with AKG K712 and a 6 year old wired ModMic.  Completely happy but I'm switching back to XBox with the Series X release and want to upgrade the audio since its been so long since I've tried something new.  At this point I'm still confused if I should stick with an external VSS box or if the XSX's internal spatial surround will be better - and let me go out USB straight to something like a Schiit  Hel.  Anyways, don't want to get ahead of myself there.  What higher end setups are looking good for Series X based on what we know of it so far?  I know its prudent to wait and see but waiting for Nov 10 to roll around has really given me the itch.


You could still use the X7 with VSS turned off and use the internal VSS on the Xbox. Assuming it gets passed through usb or whatever.

Man, I dunno what path I would take as an upgrade to the K712, tbh. Maybe an HD800S, lol, but that's prohibitively expensive. I really wish they could figure out a way to lower the cost to something realistically feasible.


----------



## danterikxx

still no word on how the PS5's Tempest 3D Engine will work

and if the console supports USB Dac/amp, unlike the PS4


----------



## kadinh

danterikxx said:


> still no word on how the PS5's Tempest 3D Engine will work
> 
> and if the console supports USB Dac/amp, unlike the PS4


Right. That would figure that I start getting in to hifi audio again and the PS5 wont play nice with amps and DACs.


----------



## yugnat

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You could still use the X7 with VSS turned off and use the internal VSS on the Xbox. Assuming it gets passed through usb or whatever.
> 
> Man, I dunno what path I would take as an upgrade to the K712, tbh. Maybe an HD800S, lol, but that's prohibitively expensive. I really wish they could figure out a way to lower the cost to something realistically feasible.



Yeah, not opposed to HD800S but audio equipment purchases of that price point usually go to my 2 channel system.  Maybe instead of 'better' than K712 I just go for different and get into a set of planars?  Interested in this open planarmagnetic you're teasing about.  Either way, looks like I might wait a bit to see what develops.


----------



## stavros.m

While we wait for Mad Lust Envy's big tease review I am thinking of a backup in case for some reason i cannot get the headphones that would be mentioned. I am curious has anyone gotten the new 2020 HIFIMAN HE400i, How do they compare to the older ones? Are they good for single player games? 

thanks
https://www.amazon.ca/HIFIMAN-HE400i-2020-Version-Professional/dp/B08BC5CM9N


----------



## kadinh

If anyone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it:

I recently got some 660S and a SBX G6 (SBX mode; Direct mode not available) to use with my PS4 over optical in L-PCM mode. I tried them out and tbh I was a little disappointed. I don’t know what I was expecting but I wasn’t able to pick up footstep direction in Apex Legends very well and the low end seemed lacking. I’m not sure if I set something up wrong or if it’s the characteristics of the 660S/G6; it seems like the HyperX Revolver S is able to outperform them and the Audeze Mobius sounds fantastic. 

Any help appreciated  Thx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2020)

kadinh said:


> If anyone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it:
> 
> I recently got some 660S and a SBX G6 (SBX mode; Direct mode not available) to use with my PS4 over optical in L-PCM mode. I tried them out and tbh I was a little disappointed. I don’t know what I was expecting but I wasn’t able to pick up footstep direction in Apex Legends very well and the low end seemed lacking. I’m not sure if I set something up wrong or if it’s the characteristics of the 660S/G6; it seems like the HyperX Revolver S is able to outperform them and the Audeze Mobius sounds fantastic.
> 
> Any help appreciated  Thx


The 660S is apparently a very revealing headphone, which is tuned a lot differently than what you're used to. For one, it's gonna have way less bass. From the graphs I've seen, it has a massive roll off below 100hz. That means, it's not going to be a very immersive headphone with potent bass.

As for being able to pick up footstep direction, it's entirely possible you set the G6 up wrong. Just turning on SBX is not all you have to do.

1. Make sure the G6 is receiving a 5.7/7.1 signal via USB or if on console, Dolby Digital 5.1.
2. Make sure the GAME itself is NOT set to headphone mode, headphone surround, or ANYTHING labelled headphone. Remember, the G6 is the one doing the processing for the headphone, NOT the game. So the game must be outputting something akin to home theater 5.1/7.1 (which is what the G6 needs to turn into virtual surround for the headphone). This is the main mistake people make when using virtual surround devices. No game should be in headphone sound modes. That is ONLY for when you're NOT using virtual surround devices like the G6 SBX mode.

Don't ever, EVER expect vertical sound positioning. things like the G6 can only give you HORIZONTAL direction of where sounds are. So if people are above or below you, you'll only be able to hear that they're in front of you, behind you or the sides. Whether its above or below... that's up to you to figure out.


----------



## mindbomb

kadinh said:


> If anyone could point me in the right direction I would appreciate it:
> 
> I recently got some 660S and a SBX G6 (SBX mode; Direct mode not available) to use with my PS4 over optical in L-PCM mode. I tried them out and tbh I was a little disappointed. I don’t know what I was expecting but I wasn’t able to pick up footstep direction in Apex Legends very well and the low end seemed lacking. I’m not sure if I set something up wrong or if it’s the characteristics of the 660S/G6; it seems like the HyperX Revolver S is able to outperform them and the Audeze Mobius sounds fantastic.
> 
> Any help appreciated  Thx



It's been said already, but let me reiterate - you have to get the ps4 to output dolby digital 5.1, not lpcm.


----------



## kadinh

mindbomb said:


> It's been said already, but let me reiterate - you have to get the ps4 to output dolby digital 5.1, not lpcm.


Bitstream Dolby and DTS are the other 2 options available.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kadinh said:


> Bitstream Dolby and DTS are the other 2 options available.


Bitstream Dolby. Do NOT use DTS.


----------



## Veliladon

kadinh said:


> PS4 over optical in L-PCM mode



Optical can only handle 2.0 in L-PCM mode. You only have 3mbps bandwidth over TOSLINK. You need to switch it to Bitstream (Dolby) in the Audio Format (Priority) setting on the PS4 and then you can set the speaker mode to 5.1 or 7.1 on the option below it.


----------



## Veliladon (Oct 3, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Aux. It's a standard headphone.



I'm kind of happy to hear this. I bought the Audeze Mobius specifically for the Waves NX HRTF and I was kind of worried it would be obsolete just after receiving it.

I've been so happy with these headphones. I'd love it if they had chatmix but that's about the only complaint.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Bitstream Dolby. Do NOT use DTS.


Excellent! Ps - why are you so dang helpful? Lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2020)

Veliladon said:


> I'm kind of happy to hear this. I bought the Audeze Mobius specifically for the Waves NX HRTF and I was kind of worried it would be obsolete just after receiving it.


The Mobius is absolutely still viable. The Penrose may look like it, but it has an entirely different use case. Rest assured, the Mobius is still great and worth it, especially for PC use. That headtracking is completely unique. The Penrose much more typical and standard, as it's meant to just be mainly wireless 2.4ghz headset.

I can absolutely see someone getting both.


----------



## Veliladon (Oct 3, 2020)

The headtracking isn't so much the thing I was after (I barely use it) as the Waves NX VSS audio processing. I went through the GameDAC, the GSX 1000, the G6. Waves NX is definitely the best HRTF money can buy. After experiencing it for the first time the GSX 1000 virtual 7.1 (my gold standard prior to Waves NX) sounded like it was echoing in a cavern in comparison.

I don't know why they didn't just put the Waves NX DSP in the Penrose's dongle and then send the 2.0 output over the stereo wireless link. The dongle could still ingest 8 channel audio like its Mobius brother.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 3, 2020)

Veliladon said:


> The headtracking isn't so much the thing I was after (I barely use it) as the Waves NX VSS audio processing. I went through the GameDAC, the GSX 1000, the G6. Waves NX is definitely the best HRTF money can buy. After experiencing it for the first time the GSX 1000 virtual 7.1 (my gold standard prior to Waves NX) sounded like it was echoing in a cavern in comparison.
> 
> I don't know why they didn't just put the Waves NX DSP in the Penrose's dongle and then send the 2.0 output over the stereo wireless link. The dongle could still ingest 8 channel audio like its Mobius brother.


The thing with GSX is that you have to change the + icon settings. If you have two ++ then yes it sounds like a cavern. Well you know what? If you set the Waves NX to a high value it also sounds like a cavern. I set it to 35/40% on the Mobius personally. As for GSX, I set it to just one +.

Personally I think Waves NX is good, but not better than GSX, SBX, or Dolby Headphone. I actually prefer the Mobius with DH through the aux via line out on the Modi 3.


----------



## Veliladon

Even at zero + mode it was still way too echoy. I tried to test them all flat as possible, turn off all the EQ. Waves NX had the least echo by far.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To any and all gamers who are getting into the headphone gaming game.... This video sums up EVERYTHING I basically wanna say about the subject.





A damn good job condensing what needs to be said.


----------



## Zachik

^^ Very good review for noobs!  Would answer 90% of their questions


----------



## Veliladon

I'm willing to make fun of myself when it comes to headphone selection advice...


----------



## Fegefeuer

https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...v-virtual-surround-sound-coming-after-launch/



> On the PS5, you’ll be able to experience 3D Audio with the *headphones that many of you already own, either through USB connection to the console*, or by plugging your headphones into the DualSense wireless controller’s 3.5mm headset jack.


----------



## kellte2

Fegefeuer said:


> https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...v-virtual-surround-sound-coming-after-launch/


So can the X7/G6 be used via USB with PS5? This is promising news. Wish Sony would be more transparent about this stuff.


----------



## Fegefeuer

G6 worked with the PS4, I just assume it'll work with the PS5 as well. Just don't run it with SBX enabled if you make use of 3D Audio.


----------



## Veliladon

kellte2 said:


> So can the X7/G6 be used via USB with PS5? This is promising news. Wish Sony would be more transparent about this stuff.



I don't think you'll want to. It looks like Sony is going to have some crazy HRTF processing on the stereo output that's going to blow 7.1 HRTFs away.


----------



## kellte2

Veliladon said:


> I don't think you'll want to. It looks like Sony is going to have some crazy HRTF processing on the stereo output that's going to blow 7.1 HRTFs away.


Right. I wasn’t very clear. I was referring to using these as DACs, not as VSS DSPs.


----------



## Radio81

The G5 you can also use on PS4, but the G6 gives you surround processing vs. stereo on G5, and chatmix volume control.  But since the PS5 has no optical output, how will the chatmix function on the G6 work with the PS5?  Will we have to wait for Sony to implement their 3D audio over HDMI and then use an HDMI>optical splitter?

Really concerning to see headset manufacturers with new products geared toward PS5 but without a chatmix adjustment.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Oct 7, 2020)

Radio81 said:


> The G5 you can also use on PS4, but the G6 gives you surround processing vs. stereo on G5, and chatmix volume control.  But since the PS5 has no optical output, how will the chatmix function on the G6 work with the PS5?  Will we have to wait for Sony to implement their 3D audio over HDMI and then use an HDMI>optical splitter?
> 
> Really concerning to see headset manufacturers with new products geared toward PS5 but without a chatmix adjustment.



I'm assuming the G6 will lose chat mix until the HDMI/optical splitter is viable.

Agree regarding chat mix - pretty much essential as far as I'm concerned on a gaming 'headset' (particularly as the mixer in the UI is rubbish compared to the Xbox iteration).  It seems only the Sony Pulse 3D has it - I'm assuming either Sony is keeping that ability to itself or charging a massive licence fee for 3rd parties to incorporate it?


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nope.
> 
> I'll say it's a planarmagnetic, and it's not the Penrose.
> 
> ...


Will I be able to drive these new mystery planars with my ARC MK2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kadinh said:


> Will I be able to drive these new mystery planars with my ARC MK2?


I'd say you're fine.


----------



## idsyphe

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'd say you're fine.



Are these mystery planars the HE-5XX mentioned the last few days?


----------



## Evshrug

Trancefreak said:


> About the Senny PC38x.
> I can't find it on Senheiser's website, is this because it's essentially a Drop product?
> Further on, I both have a Mobius and a MMX300 Gen1, how would you rate the senny against these 2?
> 
> ...


It's not a Sennheiser product, it's by EPOS Audio.


----------



## Huntersknoll

idsyphe said:


> Are these mystery planars the HE-5XX mentioned the last few days?



They have to be! I hope they are at least haha. I'm looking to pick up a new set for Next Gen.. almost went with the DT1990 but I love planers.. heard the rumors of the HE-5XX and decided to wait it out. Totally would have gone with the Penrose if they were open back


----------



## jmans1981

My signal chain is this:

SoundblasterX G6>opticalout>Topping D50>RCAcables>Liquid Spark>Amanda's

SBX G6 is applying virtual surround DSP as 2 premixed stereo channels(SBX 7.1) which are processed by the D50 as stereo 48khz, which then sends the analog signal to the Liquid Spark which amplifies the Anandas and gives them a more lively sound.

Am I messing anything up by double-DAC-chaining because my ears don't like the analog premix straight to the Liquid Spark, but through the 2nd DAC I swear it makes a difference in imaging and accuracy. Any thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, because you've kept the signal digitally between the G6 and your DAC. You haven't done two D to A conversions. You're fine.


----------



## jmans1981

I should add that in the signal chain, it starts as USB from my PC to the G6.


----------



## funnyjoke

Which attachable mic would you guys recommend to purchase with any headset?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jmans1981 said:


> I should add that in the signal chain, it starts as USB from my PC to the G6.


Still digital all the way up to your amp.


----------



## Mdoto

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Still digital all the way up to your amp.


Great review!!

Did a lot of Google searching but could not find.

Can you explain the differences between the HD598 modded with boom mic vs PC38x.  Which ones better?

I have a hd598 with the attachment but would like to know regarding the PC38x comparison since your review.


----------



## kadinh

funnyjoke said:


> Which attachable mic would you guys recommend to purchase with any headset?


Modmic is the one I see recommended most. I ordered one but USPS lost it and I haven’t ordered another one yet. I have a Blue Yeti mic that I can use in the meantime


----------



## jmans1981

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Still digital all the way up to your amp.



I do it to keep my head off the USB noise since I have a GPU and this computer doesn't have balanced signaling. I also like the digital volume stepping from the D50 so I can max volume Windows and 2 o'clock the Liquid Spark. The stage and accuracy don't deprecate like I thought they would versus analog from the G6 out to the Liquid Spark. Plus it sounds nice and lively. Do I have to match the filtration from the G6 to the same for the D50? Fast Roll-off minimum phase for both?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jmans1981 said:


> I do it to keep my head off the USB noise since I have a GPU and this computer doesn't have balanced signaling. I also like the digital volume stepping from the D50 so I can max volume Windows and 2 o'clock the Liquid Spark. The stage and accuracy don't deprecate like I thought they would versus analog from the G6 out to the Liquid Spark. Plus it sounds nice and lively. Do I have to match the filtration from the G6 to the same for the D50? Fast Roll-off minimum phase for both?



I kept that to default, not sure what it is.




Mdoto said:


> Great review!!
> 
> Did a lot of Google searching but could not find.
> 
> ...



I haven't heard the 598 in so many years, and my time with them was very brief. I don't wanna make assumptions based on something I can't remember, sorry. Just remember there weren't as fun and appealing to my tastes, while the 38X is.


----------



## Evshrug (Oct 10, 2020)

danterikxx said:


> still no word on how the PS5's Tempest 3D Engine will work
> 
> and if the console supports USB Dac/amp, unlike the PS4


https://support.playstation.com/s/article/backward-compatibility?language=en_US&lan
USB headsets and USB DAC/amps confirmed to to work on the PS5. The PS4 also supported DAC's that allowed generic drivers (sooooo... most of them), the only thing is it would send a 2-channel stereo signal. This will be the same behavior on the PS5, however that 2-channel mix will include the pre-rendered Sony Spacial Audio (Tempest 3D) baked in! So, unless you prefer the processing of something else, many first person/3D games will come with 3D audio, some of it even ray-traced, which I am excited to hear!

So, for example, since the PS5 doesn't have optical, the G5 would be able to connect to the PS5 via USB and work as fine as the G6, although apparently the G6 has an improved amp section (I haven't heard it).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 10, 2020)

I'm super happy that @Zerousen sent me a modded KSC75 with mmcx connectors, so I can replace cables at any time. The black clips are from some busted KSC75Xs I have. Better looking than the bright silicone ones that get yellow with age.


No longer will I have to deal with buying a KSC75 every few months because the cables go bad. Well worth it.


Now for him to do it for some PortaPros. 

Why Koss STILL hasn't officially done this is... baffling. Their stock cables are TRASH. SO COME ON KOSS. MAKE THIS A THING FOR EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING. KSC75, Sportapro, Portapro, KSC35. KPH30, ETC. COME ON. IT SELLS ITSELF.


----------



## funnyjoke

@Mad Lust Envy: Would you still recommend the Fidelio X2 if I want a headset mostly for music but also a lot of gaming? I'd rather not buy a DAC/amp right now so I just want something compatible out of the box.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

funnyjoke said:


> @Mad Lust Envy: Would you still recommend the Fidelio X2 if I want a headset mostly for music but also a lot of gaming? I'd rather not buy a DAC/amp right now so I just want something compatible out of the box.


Yeah, I love the X2. I do think they do scale with amplifiers, but I think they're sensitive enough for regular use.

I actually was thinking of getting one for myself to use with a vmoda boompro cable that I have and ain't getting any use out of. I'm currently without a headset, so it can be my main headset which I'm in need of. Just not sure I wanna spend the money.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm super happy that @Zerousen sent me a modded KSC75 with mmcx connectors, so I can replace cables at any time. The black clips are from some busted KSC75Xs I have. Better looking than the bright silicone ones that get yellow with age.
> 
> 
> No longer will I have to deal with buying a KSC75 every few months because the cables go bad. Well worth it.
> ...


Need a link for that wallpaper


----------



## Evshrug (Oct 10, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> To any and all gamers who are getting into the headphone gaming game.... This video sums up EVERYTHING I basically wanna say about the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Mad!
Sorry about not realizing you posted it earlier, felt a little under the weather this week on top of trying to keep up with Sennheiser thread posts. Missed making a video this week too.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey i am just curious if anyone would know. If i get a Audeze mobius would i be able to  use with sony tempest and dolby access for headphones on the series x and ps5 if i turn off the vss.

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No one knows what works and what doesn't yet.


----------



## Trancefreak

*LeSigh*

Just when I think I'm getting over my 'Fear of Missing out' syndrome, MadLustEnvy announces that he has a nice planar phones review in the fridge
I had an itch when the MMX300 gen 2 came out, suddenly my gen1 was outdated. 
I was mad in love with the Mobius and things were good, but then they announced the LCD-GX.
Thank god I'm not attracted to Sennies because of their looks.
Now, I have 3 gaming pcs, from various ages and I...*Could* switch out the gen1 MMX300 around whilst the Mobius is in RMA but....

That PC38x.... 

Am I missing out? lol.

Damn you!

Ps. Not even mentioning that I'm saving up for the DT1990 at the moment the 560S comes out. An Sich no prblem, butwho knows they're bringing out a Senny HD600 variant with angled drivers and sound-stage/imaging improvements.


----------



## Alkizar (Oct 11, 2020)

I am completely new to all of this, so please forgive and correct me if I misuse a term. I want to learn what I can. My last pair of headphones were the original Playstation Gold Wireless to give you an idea.       

After watching @Evshrug  video (wonderful by the way), I am in a bit of a pickle when it comes to choosing headphones right now. Budget is $250 and that is including an amp if one is needed.

I play mostly RPGs, both single and MMO, and so believe I am about 60% (70%?) immersion; enjoying the world (Large soundstage?).
I also love listening to the in-game music while I play, which seems to be mainly classical. However I do not listen to much music outside the games themselves.
15%  is Entertainment for when I play FPS campaigns and want to really feel the battle going on.
The final 25% is competitive when I play FPS matches with friends.

While competitive is not as important to me, I do not want a headphone that would put me at a disadvantage. Hearing where footsteps come from is always nice.

Looking into my price range it looks like maybe the Tygr 300 R would be a good choice?

No amp needed which is nice as I do not have one.
Seems to be balanced enough for immersion?
While no Pc38x, it seems to have good enough imaging that I would still be able to hear where footsteps are coming from when playing with friends. Can anyone speak on this? (Also do I understand imaging OK?)
I do not see a review from @Mad Lust Envy but maybe I missed it. Seems like other reviewers and current users view it favorably though.
Sadly would require me to get a modmic (extra $50, so max budget). Those are safe to put on the mesh on the outside, correct? It will not mess with sound quality?

There is also the Pc38x, maybe?

Also no amp needed.
Reviewers are saying it is great for competitive play.
Not as good for immersion or entertainment?
Does include a mic which, since I play MMOs, would be nice.
Not many have them, so just relying on reviewers.

What do you all think? Any others I should be looking at?
Are the Tygr 300 R (with modmic included) worth the price difference over the Pc38x for my use case?
I would love a DT880 600ohm but sadly between the headphones and amp it would be over budget I believe.


----------



## danterikxx

Alkizar said:


> I am completely new to all of this, so please forgive and correct me if I misuse a term. I want to learn what I can. My last pair of headphones were the original Playstation Gold Wireless to give you an idea.
> 
> After watching @Evshrug  video (wonderful by the way), I am in a bit of a pickle when it comes to choosing headphones right now. Budget is $250 and that is including an amp if one is needed.
> 
> ...




Will talk about the experience that i have with headphones for gaming, as i, just like you, barely use them for music 

I game with Sennheiser HD 599 and AKG K702 

599 for the fun, warm and warm side. Better suited for linear single player games and single player shooters. To hear more impactful explosions and such 

AKG k702 for more immersive games, like open-world games (the witcher 3, RDR 2,etc) 
It gives you a better sense of space and more detail

Without having any experience with them, i'd look at those two you mentioned, as well as the Sennheiser HD 560s


----------



## kadinh (Oct 12, 2020)

Should I send back my HD660S (with Hart Audio balanced cable), Audeze Mobius, Arc MK2, and ifi hip dac and get something like a LCD-X, HD800S, Arya, Focal, etc.? Or should I be happy with what I have and be content?

If that ? is too out there.....would the upcoming planars be on par with the Anandas or are the Anandas worth paying the extra price for?


----------



## Evshrug

Alkizar said:


> After watching @Evshrug  video (wonderful by the way), I am in a bit of a pickle when it comes to choosing headphones right now. Budget is $250 and that is including an amp if one is needed.
> 
> I play mostly RPGs, both single and MMO, and so believe I am about 60% (70%?) immersion; enjoying the world (Large soundstage?).
> I also love listening to the in-game music while I play, which seems to be mainly classical. However I do not listen to much music outside the games themselves.
> ...


Thanks for the compliment!!
While I still use my PC37X today (it was the last headphone I reviewed before becoming an "industry insider," you can find all my reviews in the link in my signature), I haven't heard the new PC38X (yet, it's in the mail) or the Tygr 300 R. However, both are in a different class of quality above what you're using now, so you could say you'd be safe choosing either one


----------



## pcprincipal

@Evshrug 

Hello

Hope you don't mind if I ask you directly for some advice on my sound setup as you had helped me in the past make a similar decision. 
I've preordered the PS5 and Xbox Series X and would like to be ready before getting my hands on the new consoles...

My current setup is a Lucidsound LS41 and Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro.
The LS41 uses a USB dongle that you plug into the console's USB port and an optical cable that is plugged in both the dongle and console's SPDIF ports. Works perfectly on both my PS4 Pro and X1X.
In order to get surround sound with my DT770, I purchased a Turtle Beach DSS2 which does the job. It also uses the optical ports of the consoles.

Obviously, when I learned that both the PS5 and Xbox would not include optical ports, I was a bit worried. The DSS2 is pretty much obsolete so I do not mind replacing it with something else and I will contact Lucidsound to check if there is any way to get Audio through USB, as I read that other manufacturers are releasing firmware updates to do that.

But assuming Lucidsound doesn't have a solution, what could I do to avoid buying a new headset... ? Are HDMI splitters (the ones that include SPDIF) good enough? Would it affect picture/sound quality? Ideally HDMI should be passthrough to the TV I guess as I can't even find HDMI 2.1 splitters. I don't want to lose VRR, ALLM (hoping these get used on the new consoles)

Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me !


----------



## Radio81

So far I've only seen Astro Gaming comment on compatibility of their legacy products with the new consoles.  In summary:

PS5 - Astro is releasing a $40 HDMI to optical splitter (ETA this month)
Xbox Series X - headset firmware update will allow legacy products to function via USB only.  No optical needed.

The rub here is that Sony has stated 3D audio will *later *be implemented via HDMI.  Initially 3D audio will only output via USB or 3.5mm wired from the Dual Sense controller.

I haven't seen anything official from other headset manufacturers.  The optical adapter and VSS turned off on your Lucidsound headset will work for PS5.  Without a firmware update, can't say for sure on Series X if it will work or not.  There is some discussion on reddit about whether or not the Astro optical adapter is indeed the full HDMI 2.1 spec, so best to wait until it is released to be sure, especially if you need VRR and ALLM.

I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of trial and error when the new consoles arrive.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Nope.
> 
> I'll say it's a planarmagnetic, and it's not the Penrose.
> 
> ...


Do you recommend waiting for this one or would I be better off getting a HE400i, Sundara, or Ananda? Of those 4, which would you recommend and why?


----------



## idsyphe

Radio81 said:


> So far I've only seen Astro Gaming comment on compatibility of their legacy products with the new consoles.  In summary:
> 
> PS5 - Astro is releasing a $40 HDMI to optical splitter (ETA this month)
> Xbox Series X - headset firmware update will allow legacy products to function via USB only.  No optical needed.
> ...



Yeah i'm eagerly awaiting some more information on XSX compatibility, I moved country and sold my old Mixamp (using a DSS2 for now), with the intention of buying something nice when the XSX comes out, but there's so much unknown right now in terms of what is compatible, SBX G6 was on sale for prime day, would have most likely bought that yesterday if I knew it was compatible.


----------



## stavros.m

kadinh said:


> Do you recommend waiting for this one or would I be better off getting a HE400i, Sundara, or Ananda? Of those 4, which would you recommend and why?



I would like to know also  was about to get the 2020  HE400i  or the  Sundara


----------



## kadinh

stavros.m said:


> I would like to know also  was about to get the 2020  HE400i  or the  Sundara


I am decided to sell my HD660S and get the Ananda, but after watching a TON of reviews, I don't know if I should get a less expensive model to see if I like their sound signature and soundstage.


----------



## Chastity

kadinh said:


> I am decided to sell my HD660S and get the Ananda, but after watching a TON of reviews, I don't know if I should get a less expensive model to see if I like their sound signature and soundstage.


Anyone interested in the SUndara should go watch Oluv's review.  He rips them a new hole.  Glued ear pads in 2020.... ugh.


----------



## Radio81

https://steelseries.com/blog/playstation-5-ps5-compatible-headsets-382

The key takeaway from that article is this:


PlayStation 5 will likely introduce game and chat audio balancing options in its user interface (stay tuned!)


----------



## kvmphvre

Hey! Recently I've gotten into a game called Hunt: Showdown that has fenominal audio - and uses audio as part of its core gameplay mechanics. Highly recommend it (even though the title is silly and doesn't do it any justice at all). Anyhow

I've noticed that I'm not able to tell the direction of a lot of things going on in the game, as my teammate will tell me the direction with 100% accuracy while I might be thinking it's coming from somwhere else. Sometimes it's so bad that I mistake the sound 180°.

I'm a bit baffled because I thought my setup would handle this quite well. I'm using a pair of old ass Sennheiser HD598, plugged into my computer via a scarlett 2i2. I'm not using any 3d sound or anything to my knowledge - unless there's something on by default.

Are there any obvious reasons why this would happen?

Also the Sennheisers are starting to fall apart and I'll be looking for a replacement. I've been leaning towards k712 pro but this + amp is a bit more than I want to pay. Considering Drop DT990 + drop amp perhaps.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kvmphvre said:


> Hey! Recently I've gotten into a game called Hunt: Showdown that has phenomenal audio - and uses audio as part of its core gameplay mechanics. Highly recommend it (even though the title is silly and doesn't do it any justice at all). Anyhow
> I've noticed that I'm not able to tell the direction of a lot of things going on in the game, as my teammate will tell me the direction with 100% accuracy while I might be thinking it's coming from somewhere else. Sometimes it's so bad that I mistake the sound 180°.
> I'm a bit baffled because I thought my setup would handle this quite well. I'm using a pair of old ass Sennheiser HD598, plugged into my computer via a scarlett 2i2. I'm not using any 3d sound or anything to my knowledge - unless there's something on by default. Are there any obvious reasons why this would happen?
> Also the Sennheisers are starting to fall apart and I'll be looking for a replacement. I've been leaning towards k712 pro but this + amp is a bit more than I want to pay. Considering Drop DT990 + drop amp perhaps.


The Scarlett 2i2 does zero surround sound processing, the signal just passes thru it (USB > 2i2 > headphones).
So any headphone surround sound processing would have to be done by Hunt: Showdown.
It appears with the audio setting in Hunt: Showdown, if you set the audio to 5.1 or 7.1 speaker, it does not feed the correct audio to your headphones.
So you might need to turn off "Surround Sound" setting?


----------



## kvmphvre

PurpleAngel said:


> The Scarlett 2i2 does zero surround sound processing, the signal just passes thru it (USB > 2i2 > headphones).
> So any headphone surround sound processing would have to be done by Hunt: Showdown.
> It appears with the audio setting in Hunt: Showdown, if you set the audio to 5.1 or 7.1 speaker, it does not feed the correct audio to your headphones.
> So you might need to turn off "Surround Sound" setting?



To my knowledge there’s not any surround sound settings turned on. Which is why I’m baffled. Shouldn’t the hd598 be good at this sort of thing? If so, there must be some software setting I’m missing though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

kvmphvre said:


> To my knowledge there’s not any surround sound settings turned on. Which is why I’m baffled. Shouldn’t the hd598 be good at this sort of thing? If so, there must be some software setting I’m missing though.


The HD598 is popular for headphone surround sound.


----------



## halcyon

Chastity said:


> Anyone interested in the SUndara should go watch Oluv's review.  He rips them a new hole.  Glued ear pads in 2020.... ugh.




The QA and general longevity of Hifiman headphones is also all over the place, esp. if you compare to Beyerdynamic (built like tanks), Sennheiser (generally last for years, if not decades) and the like. Buyer beware!


----------



## kadinh

About to purchase the Anandas. Buy or wait a little while more?


----------



## idsyphe (Oct 15, 2020)

Jeff Grubb tested the SBX G5/G6 on the XSX, doesn't seem to work:


----------



## thebiz

Looked all over for something like this. Thanks for this.

I recently bought some ad700x which I upgraded from hd558.

After getting the ad700x I realized how bad the fit was for me I had to bend the top to get them to not slide off my ears.

What would be the second best for competitive fps that has some more comfort.

The akg k70,  akg q701, and I was recommended the k712 else where too.

What would be recommended for a $300-350 budget

Thanks


----------



## PurpleAngel

thebiz said:


> Looked all over for something like this. Thanks for this. I recently bought some ad700x which I upgraded from hd558.
> After getting the ad700x I realized how bad the fit was for me I had to bend the top to get them to not slide off my ears.
> What would be the second best for competitive fps that has some more comfort. The akg k70, akg q701, and I was recommended the k712 else where too.
> What would be recommended for a $300-350 budget Thanks


For FPS gaming, how do the AD700X compare to the HD558?


----------



## thebiz

PurpleAngel said:


> For FPS gaming, how do the AD700X compare to the HD558?


My hd558 are like 6 years old I think so I dont know if they lose any performance over time. Never had a problem in the past they always seemed good until lately I was having a hard time telling where sounds were coming from.

But the ad700x seem a bit better for pinpointing sound but they fit so loose the comfort is half as good in my opinion.

Ive only tried the ad700x in warzone thats as far as my experince goes with them.


----------



## deadchip12

Haven't visited this thread for a while. Looking forward to your review of the Senn hd 560s, Mad Lust Envy. I'm interested in whether it is an upgrade for gaming and movies from my x2hr.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 17, 2020)

I currently have no expectations or plans to acquire the 560s unless Sennheiser wants to send them to me.

The past so many Sennheiser headphones sent to me were through Drop and their variants.

Perhaps @Sennheiser would like to send me a pair for review.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I currently have no expectations or plans to acquire the 560s unless Sennheiser wants to send them to me.
> 
> The past so many Sennheiser headphones sent to me were through Drop and their variants.
> 
> Perhaps @Sennheiser would like to send me a pair for review.


@Sennheiser, pls give this man a pair of hd 560s


----------



## kadinh

deadchip12 said:


> @Sennheiser, pls give this man a pair of HD800s


FTFY


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I like the way you think 😂


----------



## suspects

Have you heard the 58x? How good are they for gaming? (And also some music). I've heard they are comparable to the 6xx but when I hear people comparing them specifically for gaming I've heard the 58x are much better.


----------



## idsyphe

If you're looking into either the 58x or 6xx, I'd suggest you research the new Sennheiser 560S, as it seems like it would be a better headphone for gaming than both of those.


----------



## suspects

idsyphe said:


> If you're looking into either the 58x or 6xx, I'd suggest you research the new Sennheiser 560S, as it seems like it would be a better headphone for gaming than both of those.



Maybe, I just don’t currently think their are enough opinions out there yet. DMS likes them but i’m always a bit skeptical of his ear although i think he’s gotten better. Josh valour seems to think they are good but from what i’ve seen prefers the 58x. I’d love MadLustEnvy to be able to review them though as he focuses on gaming.


----------



## idsyphe

suspects said:


> Maybe, I just don’t currently think their are enough opinions out there yet. DMS likes them but i’m always a bit skeptical of his ear although i think he’s gotten better. Josh valour seems to think they are good but from what i’ve seen prefers the 58x. I’d love MadLustEnvy to be able to review them though as he focuses on gaming.



Fair enough, I'm considering them as a up/sidegrade from my K7XX, which although have been amazing for me the last few years, I've got that little itch to try something new. I'm just on the fence as to whether the comfort will match the AKG's, as I love the soft velour pads, and much preferred these compared to the HD579 which I've owned in the past


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I haven't heard the 58X.

Really it all depends on the type of flavor you want. Yeah the 560 might be better for gaming due to more clinical and airier sound, but if that isn't your preferred sound signature, it's not going to beat something you WOULD LIKE.

I have no problem gaming with the 6XX. Yes, if you want to focus on just competitive GAMING, there are better options, but it's not like you can't game with things you like.

Virtual surround makes any good headphone worth it for gaming, so don't stress out of its not an OMG 10/10 KILLER.

I play mostly with the 6XX and LCD1 (which atm has a lapel mic attached to the wire), neither which I rated anywhere near the top for GAMING performance. I enjoy the sound off both and can play things like Warzone just fine with them.


----------



## danterikxx

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard the 58X.
> 
> Really it all depends on the type of flavor you want. Yeah the 560 might be better for gaming due to more clinical and airier sound, but if that isn't your preferred sound signature, it's not going to beat something you WOULD LIKE.
> 
> ...


What would you list at the top? 

Please don't say hd800 lol


----------



## Fegefeuer

His favorite is the HE-1.


----------



## danterikxx

Fegefeuer said:


> His favorite is the HE-1.



Not high end enough for me. Need something better


----------



## idsyphe

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard the 58X.
> 
> Really it all depends on the type of flavor you want. Yeah the 560 might be better for gaming due to more clinical and airier sound, but if that isn't your preferred sound signature, it's not going to beat something you WOULD LIKE.
> 
> ...



Good insights, makes me think I should just keep on my K7XX, plus I've made it into a pretty convenient headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 19, 2020)

What would I rate near the top? It was depends on what you want. Again, clinical, or more immersive. You can't have everything. Get something that you like. In terms of a good balance between detail and immersive, I'd probably get something like an Ananda.

I certainly wouldn't get an HD800 for anything other than clinical detail retrieval, not immersive or literally anything else that I'd actually use headphones for.

This is why I say that people should stop thinking there is a best. There isn't. You're going to sacrifice somewhere.



idsyphe said:


> Good insights, makes me think I should just keep on my K7XX, plus I've made it into a pretty convenient headset.


I certainly wouldn't have trouble using that as a headset.


----------



## suspects

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't heard the 58X.
> 
> Really it all depends on the type of flavor you want. Yeah the 560 might be better for gaming due to more clinical and airier sound, but if that isn't your preferred sound signature, it's not going to beat something you WOULD LIKE.
> 
> ...


What’s the best way to get virtual surround then? I’ve heard some are better than others and i’ve also heard it can better or worse from person to person. Im on pc if that matters.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 19, 2020)

Got the modded with MMCX connectors, Portapros in today. Definitely better sounding than the KSC75. No wonder they've always cost more than the 75s. I mean it's been awhile since I could compare them properly. 

Also got the Audeze Penrose in today...






suspects said:


> What’s the best way to get virtual surround then? I’ve heard some are better than others and i’ve also heard it can better or worse from person to person. Im on pc if that matters.


there's a few ways. Personally, I mainly use a cheap Xonar U3 usb dac that has Dolby Headphone (I use room 2 setting). Then have it where it sends audio through the spdif/optical out, and use a legit dac like a Modi 3 and an amp like a Magni 3.

Oe you can go super easy and get something like a Creative G6 dac/amp. That has SBX which a lot of people prefer over Dolby Headphone (I personally prefer Dolby Headphone though).

Both are great though, so just whatever you want.

Still waiting on Sennheiser to make a dac/amp with GSX that isn't the GSX1000.


----------



## suspects

okay, thanks. the Xunar U3 sounds perfect for my setup, i’ll look into it.


----------



## Radio81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Got the modded with MMCX connectors, Portapros in today. Definitely better sounding than the KSC75. No wonder they've always cost more than the 75s. I mean it's been awhile since I could compare them properly.



That's awesome.  Who did the modding for the MMCX connectors?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 19, 2020)

Radio81 said:


> That's awesome.  Who did the modding for the MMCX connectors?


@Zerousen has an ebay listing. I found him by chance. Didn't even know he was a headfi member, but he recognized who I was. 

I def recommend getting Portapros for the mod, though if you want clips you'll have to takethem from KSC75s or KSC35s (the 35's clips are not as comfy, and it's like double the price.)


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What would I rate near the top? It was depends on what you want. Again, clinical, or more immersive. You can't have everything.


Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro : Yes, you can have everything.


----------



## Chastity (Oct 19, 2020)

FYI:  Oluv did a review of the HD-560S, and compared against the HD-58X Jubilee from Drop.  Based on the listening playback, it seems Sennheiser likes the Beyerdynamic House Sound.  Tho seriously, the unveiled treble should be popular with gamers.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey Everyone i am just curious for dolby access what settings do you use for immersive gaming.


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone i am just curious for dolby access what settings do you use for immersive gaming.


Custom, Surround on, Volume Leveler Off


----------



## stavros.m

Chastity said:


> Custom, Surround on, Volume Leveler Off



Hey thanks so you don't use any preset and create your own custom policy


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That's the same settings I use for it.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's the same settings I use for it.


Thanks i am assuming though you play with the levels


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I don't touch any of that.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Any thoughts on the new Steel Series 7x? I ask because they seem to be the only headset that will work on both the Xbox Series X and the PS5. I have the 3D Pulse on order but also looking into a decent headphone that will work on both systems.


----------



## SolidSlug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Also got the Audeze Penrose in today...



Look at that, it actually exists!

First impressions?

I have had that one on order for ages...they keep pushing back the shipping date. I am quite close to canceling my order, actually.

What say you? Is it worth all that wait? Or is it a par-for-the-course USB-dongle deal?


----------



## SolidSlug

Helvetica bold said:


> Any thoughts on the new Steel Series 7x? I ask because they seem to be the only headset that will work on both the Xbox Series X and the PS5. I have the 3D Pulse on order but also looking into a decent headphone that will work on both systems.



Curious about that one too...wonder what the imaging is like...


----------



## Lay. (Oct 21, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> This is why I say that people should stop thinking there is a best. There isn't. You're going to sacrifice somewhere.



Naaah. For my taste there is no sacrifice with HD800S + good dac/amp while gaming. Well, other than... My console/games are the bottleneck for the sound quality and you can't make coffee with the headphones


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Also got the Audeze Penrose in today...



Gives me hope they actually are coming soon now - can't wait to read some views on how they are.

Was kind of hoping the Penrose X version could be used in 'PC' mode on PS4 but I'm guessing will have to wait until after launch to be sure.  Seems the PS version is ready to go earlier anyway due to certification processes.



Helvetica bold said:


> Any thoughts on the new Steel Series 7x? I ask because they seem to be the only headset that will work on both the Xbox Series X and the PS5. I have the 3D Pulse on order but also looking into a decent headphone that will work on both systems.



Not tried the 7x but have just tried the 9 on PS4. While it was better than I had expected, its still being returned.  I guess I'm comparing it unfairly as my main headset is now the PX38x but much prefer this via the controller compared to the Artcis 9.  The Arctis did the basics ok ie you knew something was left or right of you but the PC38x makes you feel like your actually in the game world/environment with fare better imaging and perception of depth/distance imho.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 21, 2020)

SolidSlug said:


> Look at that, it actually exists!
> 
> First impressions?
> 
> ...


So far so good. Clean details, airy sound for a closed headset, no sacrifice to bass immersion.

The unit sent has a volume wheel stiffness, so I'm likely being sent another pair. I dont expect it to be a normal occurrence, as its supposed to be the same as the Mobius build, and the Mobius I have has a perfect volume wheel.

I'm still waiting on software to truly have all the Penrose can offer.

Initial thoughts:

We get bluetooth (currently only SBC with AAC in the future).

The multi function button is what the 3D button was on the Mobius. This button changes the sources. Bluetooth, Wireless, Aux

My current unit isn't the finalized version and the mic gain wheel that also serves as game/voice balance is flipped and will be different in the retail version.

Without the software, I can't mute the mic monitoring. So again, I'll be getting the software at a later date that will allow me to further mess with the Penrose functions.

EQ presets should make it by release version

Atm, windows system volume does NOT affect Penrose volume. I kinda wish it did. Not sure if it's planned or possible.

The mic fliter is not the one that will ship with the retail version, so its a bit hard to remove and attach. Again, this will not be an issue on release version.

Mic quality is great. I initially had really horrible distortion and other things, and then I remembered it was my horrible mobo usb ports. I changed over and it was fine.

Noise floor very, very low, and shouldn't be heard when playing audio. Lower than Mobius.

3 cables included: Type C to Type C, Type C to Type A, 3.5mm to 3.5mm TRRS. You may want to have a mic/audio splitter on hand to separate the channels if you plan on using the Aux input (which I am atm to use as a tether between my Modi 3 into the Penrose so I can get Dolby Headphone from the Xonar U3 that is attached to the Modi). No need for an amp.

My only complaint aside from the volume wheel stuff is that the volume will dramatically lower to make a beep when the volume is maxed, and then the volume quickly rises to max. It's jarring. I have asked them to change this, because the sudden lowering to beep then to sudden rise to max volume is...not good.


My current setup is Aux with 3.5mm cable into mic/audio splitter. The mic is being fed to the Schiit Hel, and the Audio to the Modi's RCA out. So I'm using the Modi as the DAC, and the Penrose internal amp. The Hel is doing mic duties.


I know it's been pushed back a bit, but they have to get everything right. Not worth rushing release and then it coming with a bunch of problems.

As always, get what you really want and intend to use it for.

The Penrose will be for:

Those who want mainly wireless lag free audio, with optional Bluetooth (that also work IN conjuction with the main wireless mode, so you can take calls, or use the voice chat from the bluetooth while playing)
A closed headset
Planarmagnetic
Convenience with more features than a traditional headset


If you're not mainly after these things, there are other headsets like the PC38X I would totally recommend, like if you want open backed, traditionally wired to use with your gear type headset.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So far so good. Clean details, airy sound for a closed headset, no sacrifice to bass immersion.
> 
> The unit sent has a volume wheel stiffness, so I'm likely being sent another pair. I dont expect it to be a normal occurrence, as its supposed to be the same as the Mobius build, and the Mobius I have has a perfect volume wheel.
> 
> I'm still waiting on software to truly have all the Penrose can offer.



Do you think that Penrose is for all purposes sonically near identical to Mobius (sans the WavesNX)?


----------



## kadinh

Sending back the Mobius today to see if the hype of the LCD-X is worth the price hike.


----------



## SolidSlug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're not mainly after these things, there are other headsets like the PC38X I would totally recommend, like if you want open backed, traditionally wired to use with your gear type headset.



That's the thing. I and probably half the world want a PC38X that performs just as well, but wirelessly. 

Having to hook up cables, mixers, amps, etc. is a pain the butt when you don't play at a desk.

Reading your first impressions on the Penrose, I am a little worried. It seems assembly was done with eyes closed and an arm in the back. And we both know they tend to cherry pick these demo units.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Oct 21, 2020)

SolidSlug said:


> That's the thing. I and probably half the world want a PC38X that performs just as well, but wirelessly.
> 
> Having to hook up cables, mixers, amps, etc. is a pain the butt when you don't play at a desk.
> 
> Reading your first impressions on the Penrose, I am a little worried. It seems assembly was done with eyes closed and an arm in the back. And we both know they tend to cherry pick these demo units.



If it's any help - the PC38x I have seems to be driven to pretty decent volumes, even by the PS4 controller - I'd imagine the Xbox controller would do an even better job so you really could use these without any amps etc.  Then the only cable is the short console cable connected to the controller


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 21, 2020)

halcyon said:


> Do you think that Penrose is for all purposes sonically near identical to Mobius (sans the WavesNX)?


I'll have to do comparisons, which I have not yet done. But the Mobius sounds warmer and not as airy and clear. So I'd say they're tuned differently.

As for worries about the build. how do you know its cherry picked? This isn't the retail version. It's very much prototyped, with missing features and final tweaks. The same thing happened with the Mobius. It had things that were improved on release. This is why I didn't want to make initial impressions. They are NOT indicative of final product. Sonically, yes, but things are still being worked on.

Audeze even asked me what's good, what needs to improve, etc. They weren't like "HEY TELL US ITS READY AS IS."

First thing I told them was I didn't like the feeling of the volume wheel and that it needs to feel like the Two Mobius units (one that had a noticeable higher noise floor which was fixed on release)I had at a point in time, and he said he was going to address it, and see if it was maybe this pre-release unit.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey stupid question but for the people that play on PC and Console do you have multiple headsets or do you use a headset with low ohms to plug into the controller

thanks


----------



## SolidSlug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As for worries about the build. how do you know its cherry picked? This isn't the retail version. It's very much prototyped, with missing features and final tweaks. The same thing happened with the Mobius. It had things that were improved on release. This is why I didn't want to make initial impressions. They are NOT indicative of final product. Sonically, yes, but things are still being worked on.



Sorry, you are right. I don't know where your sample fit in the validation process. Hence, I should have shut my big mouth.
I am just mildly annoyed at Audeze because they keep saying "we expect to ship any day now", while everything indicates they are not there yet.

I am glad you are helping them come up with a product that stands the road.


----------



## shortstack31489

stavros.m said:


> Hey stupid question but for the people that play on PC and Console do you have multiple headsets or do you use a headset with low ohms to plug into the controller
> 
> thanks


Multiple. ATH-AD900x for console and HD700 for PC


----------



## stavros.m (Oct 22, 2020)

Two more question on the topic of PC and Console. I am looking at getting the ps5 whenever i could find one in stock. I was debating on at the moment getting either a Schiit stack (hersey + modi 3) , but the cost is kinda high with shipping and duties to canada. I was also looking at the Topping E30 + Liquid Spark or the Topping L30 and the Topping E30.

First question any combo better then the other? I am also open to any other suggestion
Second question how would we go around not having an optical port in the ps5? Can we connect with usb?

thanks for the help


----------



## MEGALADON

Hello All, does anyone have any recommendations for a mic that can be used with sound blaster x3 and x7. I have a wireless mod mic but the sticky pads keep falling off and I'm tired of charging it. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## PurpleAngel

stavros.m said:


> Two more question on the topic of PC and Console. I am looking at getting the ps5 whenever i could find one in stock. I was debating on at the moment getting either a Schiit stack (hersey + modi 3) , but the cost is kinda high with shipping and duties to canada. I was also looking at the Topping E30 + Liquid Spark or the Topping L30 and the Topping E30. First question any combo better then the other?
> Second question how would we go around not having an optical port in the ps5? Can we connect with usb? thanks for the help


Guess it would depend if the PS5's operating system comes with drivers that work with the USB interface chip that your DAC (DAC/amp) comes with?
Which me myself have no idea.


----------



## stavros.m

PurpleAngel said:


> Guess it would depend if the PS5's operating system comes with drivers that work with the USB interface chip that your DAC (DAC/amp) comes with?
> Which me myself have no idea.


Hey thanks ya i guess question 2 is a more wait and see question would you have any opinion on amp/dac from my list or another suggestion

thanks again


----------



## Radio81

Is this the first open back wireless headset?
https://www.theverge.com/21525271/c...75 XB Wireless has,doesn't seem as compressed.

Too bad it is Xbox only.


----------



## idsyphe

Radio81 said:


> Is this the first open back wireless headset?
> https://www.theverge.com/21525271/corsair-hs75-xb-wireless-review-pc-xbox-specs-features-price#:~:text=The HS75 XB Wireless has,doesn't seem as compressed.
> 
> Too bad it is Xbox only.



Would be perfect if it had a flip up mic


----------



## Lay.

stavros.m said:


> Second question how would we go around not having an optical port in the ps5? Can we connect with usb?



I bought this Astro hdmi to optical adapter just in case I need to use my Astro MixAmp TR or Soundblaster G6 (through optical) with my PS5. Hopefully the PS5 can connect to my Sennheiser HDV820 straight through USB and use the build in VSS. 

https://blog.astrogaming.com/2020/10/astro-hdmi-audio-adapter-for-playstation-5/


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lay. said:


> I bought this Astro hdmi to optical adapter just in case I need to use my Astro MixAmp TR or Soundblaster G6 (through optical) with my PS5. Hopefully the PS5 can connect to my Sennheiser HDV820 straight through USB and use the build in VSS.
> 
> https://blog.astrogaming.com/2020/10/astro-hdmi-audio-adapter-for-playstation-5/


That doesn't have HDMI 2.1 passthrough, so no 4K/120 VRR capability. Wouldn't work for me.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yea - what were Astro thinking - 'right, lets issue an adapter so our headsets work with the new consoles while restricting one of the features a lot are most interested in this generation' !!


----------



## Lay. (Oct 23, 2020)

That is true. But how many 32"+ 4K 120Hz through HDMI 2.1 Gaming monitors are there?

I would be really happy if I could play fps PS5 games with 1440p/120Hz.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Yea fair point, then again I reckon a huge percentage of Astro's clients are lounge based, console gamers who have bought brand new TVs for the new generation only to find they'll now also need a new headset to utilise all the features their shiny new console and TV can offer


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## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 23, 2020)

Lay. said:


> That is true. But how many 32"+ 4K 120Hz through HDMI 2.1 Gaming monitors are there?
> 
> I would be really happy if I could play fps PS5 games with 1440p/120Hz.


Well console players will generally use televisions, and gamers looking for tvs will definitely be looking into hdmi 2.1 enabled ones with 4k/120. It's literally one of the killer features introduced with these consoles.

Knowing Sony, they won't output a 1440p resolution, meaning any 1440p monitors will probably only get a 1080p signal from the PS5.

Xbox will support true 1440p signals, which is nice.

TBH, these consoles just need to have a downsampling mode to 1440p option. I too would get a 1440p monitor if the ps5 did. Probably an ultrawide or super ultrawide.


----------



## Radio81

Yeah, I'm not betting on Sony supporting 1440 res, but it would be sweet if they did.  I'm holding off for a 43" or smaller tv with HDMI 2.1 and VRR, if it ever happens.  4K monitors with 120Hz VRR are way too expensive for my budget.  1440p would be the sweet spot for monitor size and price for me.

And Astro, ugh....HDMI 2.0b...really?  Oh well, just have to wait longer for one to show up on Amazon.


----------



## stavros.m (Oct 24, 2020)

Looking for a planar headphone for rpg, single player games, mmo. They will be replacing my dt 990's and i wanted to go in another direction to try something different. I was going to wait for the  headphone @Mad Lust Envy was teasing us on, but I am worried it might be a drop headset which in canada cost a fortune to get. So i was debating on getting the Audeze LCD-1 , Audeze Mobius or the Hifiman Sundara. I hear they are all highly praised, but worried about the Sundara QC. Is it something i should worry about? For the people that have experienced them what would you recommend.


----------



## halcyon

stavros.m said:


> ooking for a planar headphone for rpg, single player games, mmo. They will be replacing my dt 990's and i wanted to go in another direction to try something different. I was going to wait for the  headphone @Mad Lust Envy was teasing us on, but I am worried it might be a drop headset which in canada cost a fortune to get. So i was debating on getting the Audeze LCD-1 , Audeze Mobius or the Hifiman Sundara. I hear they are all highly praised, but worried about the Sundara QC. Is it something i should worry about? For the people that have experienced them what would you recommend.





Hifiman QC is hit and miss. Caveat emptor. At least make sure you buy locally with good warranty replacement.

Then again, Audeze is not always better (some modesl have had lots of QC issues). I had LCD 2v2 (pre-fazor) and while nice for sound quality (one of the best for me subjectively), the wearing discomfort was way too much for me (presses on the top of the head too much and I did use extra padding). They are just so heavy and the headband is not the most ergonomic.

With all it's failings, Mobius with extra padding, in wired mode, for the price you have to pay, is imho, a decent compromise , unless you want to go for the extra 20% of performance & SQ. I also swapped the pads on mine to get a better / tighter seal, which in my case improved the bass quite a bit. Then again, they also have failure points: the battery and the headband. But for the price, it's much easier on the wallet and the last time I checked, you could get spare parts.


----------



## Veliladon

stavros.m said:


> Looking for a planar headphone for rpg, single player games, mmo. They will be replacing my dt 990's and i wanted to go in another direction to try something different. I was going to wait for the headphone @Mad Lust Envy was teasing us on, but I am worried it might be a drop headset which in canada cost a fortune to get. So i was debating on getting the Audeze LCD-1 , Audeze Mobius or the Hifiman Sundara. I hear they are all highly praised, but worried about the Sundara QC. Is it something i should worry about? For the people that have experienced them what would you recommend.



This is my opinion:


----------



## Trancefreak

Veliladon said:


> This is my opinion:


Well, not the ' JUST GET AN MOBIUS', but the Mobius does offer the best features for it's price. It is an all in one packet, no need for DAC/AMP, etc...
That being said, I had my headband failed twice ( 3rd time's a charm? )

That being said, @stavros.m , are you concerned about sound leakage? I assume you'd want an immersive headset rather than a competitive one.
Is a microphone important? How shall you drive the headphone ( motherboard, int. soundcard, ext. soundcard,dedicated DAC/AMP )
What is important for you and why would you like a Planar ( I'm not questioning your decision, I'm just curious  )

I Went DT770, DT990, and now I both own a MMX300 and a Mobius, so ask away


----------



## stavros.m (Oct 25, 2020)

Trancefreak said:


> Well, not the ' JUST GET AN MOBIUS', but the Mobius does offer the best features for it's price. It is an all in one packet, no need for DAC/AMP, etc...
> That being said, I had my headband failed twice ( 3rd time's a charm? )
> 
> That being said, @stavros.m , are you concerned about sound leakage? I assume you'd want an immersive headset rather than a competitive one.
> ...



@Trancefreak Hey no i am not worried about sound leak. I would like an immersive headset. I might use it on the PS5 also or just get the PS5 headset depends how long tempest takes to be globally available. A microphone is not really important to me since i had a standing snowball mic and i have a modmic. I currently have the dt990's 250 ohms was thinking about Planar just for a the change, but in no means am i stuck on getting a Planar headset, i am pretty opened to anything.
Currently i am using the Syba Sonic to power my dt 990's but i was also looking at upgrading that to either a Schiit stack (hersey + modi 3) , but the cost is kinda high with shipping and duties to Canada, a Topping E30 + Liquid Spark or the Topping L30 and the Topping E30

thanks for any advice you can give



halcyon said:


> Hifiman QC is hit and miss. Caveat emptor. At least make sure you buy locally with good warranty replacement.
> 
> Then again, Audeze is not always better (some modesl have had lots of QC issues). I had LCD 2v2 (pre-fazor) and while nice for sound quality (one of the best for me subjectively), the wearing discomfort was way too much for me (presses on the top of the head too much and I did use extra padding). They are just so heavy and the headband is not the most ergonomic.
> 
> With all it's failings, Mobius with extra padding, in wired mode, for the price you have to pay, is imho, a decent compromise , unless you want to go for the extra 20% of performance & SQ. I also swapped the pads on mine to get a better / tighter seal, which in my case improved the bass quite a bit. Then again, they also have failure points: the battery and the headband. But for the price, it's much easier on the wallet and the last time I checked, you could get spare parts.


Hey thanks is it simple to switch the pads? I know audeze has the gel pads don't seem to be able to find them on amazon.ca


----------



## halcyon

stavros.m said:


> Hey thanks is it simple to switch the pads? I know audeze has the gel pads don't seem to be able to find them on amazon.ca




It's not difficult, but it's a bit of a pull-over hack (you are not using the original Mobius pad attachment ring when doing this). You just pull the pads over the headphone cup like this:




From this thread/review: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-mobius-review-impressions.887808/page-198

I'm using Brainwavz Angled pleather
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audeze-mobius-review-impressions.887808/page-99#post-14523300


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Stay tuned today boyz and girlz.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> @Trancefreak Hey no i am not worried about sound leak. I would like an immersive headset. I might use it on the PS5 also or just get the PS5 headset depends how long tempest takes to be globally available. A microphone is not really important to me since i had a standing snowball mic and i have a modmic. I currently have the dt990's 250 ohms was thinking about Planar just for a the change, but in no means am i stuck on getting a Planar headset, i am pretty opened to anything.
> Currently i am using the Syba Sonic to power my dt 990's but i was also looking at upgrading that to either a Schiit stack (hersey + modi 3) , but the cost is kinda high with shipping and duties to Canada, a Topping E30 + Liquid Spark or the Topping L30 and the Topping E30
> 
> thanks for any advice you can give
> ...


 Pads with a big enough lip can be draped over the cups. 

As for gel pads, you have to buy directly from Audeze. I wouldn't get them expecting a big difference however. I honestly can't tell much between them.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Pads with a big enough lip can be draped over the cups.
> 
> As for gel pads, you have to buy directly from Audeze. I wouldn't get them expecting a big difference however. I honestly can't tell much between them.


Hey thanks for the reply i will then not worry to much about the gel pads if I go with the Mobius, but  i am going to wait on your announcement today before making any choices


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2021)

Here's the long awaited reveal and review of the HE-5XX. Sorry for the slight delay today. I started playing Warzone and lost track of time. My apologies.


*Drop + Hifiman HE-5XX*






Where to buy: *Drop.com*

*Disclaimer: A special thanks to Drop.com for sending the HE-5XX out to me for review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.*



*Intro*​
Looks like Drop wasn't quite done with release bangers in short succession. Fresh off the heels of the Sennheiser PC38X, Drop teamed up with Hifiman once again to bring us something exciting: the HE5XX. This marks the third big Hifiman collaboration after the 4XX and Edition XX. The HE-500 is a legendary headphone for the audiophile community, so the HE5XX has a lot to live up to. What's different? From Drop's Product Lead Audiophile:

_"We were able to work with HIFIMAN to develop a new dual magnet structure in a nod to the classic HE-500. These are significantly lighter than previous dual magnet planars which was a common complaint. These will also use their current gen super nano drivers which are only a few microns thick."_

And a newer statement to reiterate:

_"The 5XX uses the current generation Neo super driver membrane paired with a dual magnet design similar to the original HE-500. However, HIFIMAN was now able to make these magnets much thinner and lighter than previously possible. While I would not say this headphone is “bassy” it does have a well defined low end and really excels in the mids."_

I didn't get to experience the original HE-500, but the statement of well defined bass and great midrange sounds like the HE-5XX is truly made as love letter to the HE-500. I can't say whether this is just a newer style HE-500 or not. I'm excited all the same.



*What's In The Box?*​




*(Note: I was sent a pre-production unit, and therefore the packaging and design are not indicative of the final product release.)*

The unit I received came with a decent box for the headphone, short 3.5mm cable with a snap on 6.3mm adapter, and that's it. Pre-production being the key term here.

Cable - Unfortunately, the cable is a bit on the short side (3ft), like the questionable 'hospital tubing' that came with the Edition XX. I know I said that cable on the Edition XX was good, but in hindsight, I really grew to dislike it, enough to end up getting a nice, long cable from Amazon that was not only cheap, but looked and felt much better. I ended up taking that cable and using it for the HE-5XX. On the bright side, the supplied cable is much better terms of feel and flexibility over the Edition XX cable. There's nothing wrong with it aside from its short length. Drop or Hifiman, I sincerely hope that the next time around, you add at least one more foot of length. Ideally, I think all full-sized headphones should come with at LEAST a 5ft cable if the headphone isn't aimed for portable use. The 5XX is clearly not a portable friendly headphone.



*Build Quality*​

*Headband:*






Continuing to forgo the newer suspension type or even newer headband used on the Deva, Drop continues to use Hifiman's classic headband design for better or worse. My guess is that they continue to chose the classic design for cost saving measures and/or to deplete excess inventory. It worked for the various HE-4 and HE400 headphones I owned, and they were generally fine with the Edition XX.

The pucks travel quite easily when extending or retracting the length compared to the Ananda I reviewed a while back which was insanely difficult to adjust. Unfortunately, both the Ananda and the HE5XX leave marks on the extension yokes, though the Ananda was a quite a bit worse in terms of shaving off pieces of metal.






While my older HE400 wasn't too easy to adjust, the travel was smooth and left no marks. I don't know why they changed from this. I can't fault Drop here. It's definitely an issue on Hifiman's side, which I'm sure is one of the reasons they moved on to different designs. I do really like the very strong metal used for the yokes/extension arms. That's one piece that has always been good with Hifiman planars.  On top of the extension arms that keeps them from fall off the headband are screws, which seems a bit... basic and under designed in comparison to the rest of the headphone.

In terms of adjustments for all head shapes, the cups have a generous range of vertical motion, and not much, but enough horizontal movement that I feel would be necessary for most head shapes.


*Cups:*






The HE5XX's cups are my absolute favorite of all Hifiman headphones I've tested to date. Similar in design to the Deva, with outer grills that you can see clean through to the magnet/driver array.






The newer super nano drivers and thinner magnets comes with a noticeable weight reduction, yet doesn't compromise the structure or general quality of the cups. They feel magnificently sturdy and well built. The cups seem to have a considerably stronger construction than the plastic and wood used in the older headphones. The lower area houses the newer Hifiman logo which indicate where the 3.5mm cable inputs are located. The inputs are angled slightly forward (and I mean SLIGHTLY).






While I liked the Ananda and Edition XX cups aesthetically, I think the round design of the HE-5XX looks more elegant and appealing.


*Pads:*






Pleather pads with a fabric surface where they rest on your skin. I will always appreciate this design, compared to going full pleather or leather. The ear opening is circular, large, and deep. The pads are quite soft, and not very dense. I do wonder if a denser foam would benefit the sound and bass. Unfortunately, the pads don't seem to be easily removable, nor do I know how they're attached. I'm not willing to risk ripping them off to find out.


*Cable:*






As previously mentioned, the cable is quite short at 3ft. At the very least it's quite well built and flexible, so as long as you're close to your source, it's a fine cable.







*Final Build Impressions:*

The HE-5XX is the best Hifiman headphone I've experienced in terms of build quality, with a fantastic cup construction, metal yokes and extension arms. The pads are large and comfortable, the cable is durable albeit short, and the headband is a tried and tested design. Asides from the extension puck pieces leaving marks on the arms, there's nothing here to complain about. Hifiman seems to have mostly perfected this design with proper materials all around.

The only room for improvement I could see is that perhaps one of the newer headband designs would further boost the overall build quality to their limits. The pucks that hold the extension pieces in place could stand to be changed, as Hifiman has already done with the Deva.



*Comfort*​

*Weight:*

Drop specifically mentioned the weight cutting measures done with the new super nano drivers and thinner magnets that should make a noticeable difference compared to the older Hifiman headphones. In practice, that is exactly what I experienced. The HE5XX is (from memory), not quite as light as the HE-4 (which was Hifiman's first foray into single sided magnet design), but unquestionably lighter feeling than the HE-400. The HE-500 being much heavier than the HE-400, it stands to reason that there is a dramatic difference between the HE-5XX and the HE-500.

In terms of personal use and comfort, the HE-5XX's weight is one of the last things you'll find problematic. The headband distributes the weight well, and doesn't stress my neck even after all day listening sessions.


*Headband:*

This is perhaps my least favorite aspect of the HE-5XX's comfort. It's odd, as I didn't particularly have problems with the HE-4, HE-400, or Edition XX, and usually praise this headband for general comfort. It's not bad, but I do feel the headband pressing down on my scalp, and have to periodically adjust it. I'm not sure what has changed, and it may just be an unknown factor or variance. The underside has minimal padding, but it's something even the older headphones shared. The material did feel different on the HE-400, though it may have been worn in with age. Not quite sure.

Take my opinion on the headband with a grain of salt, as it may just be this particular headband. That, or I may just be having an overly sensitive noggin nowadays. It's not uncomfortable in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn't disappear on my head like the other models.


*Pads:*

There isn't much to be said here, other than the pads feel fantastic. The ear openings are large and deep enough for my ears to fit in, and the fabric top feels great on the skin. The inner foam isn't as dense as I'm used to with other pleather pads, and don't seem to trap heat as much as other pads. Despite the inner foam not being as dense, they don't compress and bottom out. They also keep the clamp pressure from feeling overly strong.


*Clamp:*

Clamp is moderate without it feeling too loose or to constrictive. I personally prefer some clamp so that a headphone doesn't just slide off my head (looking at you, Audio Technica 3D wings), so the HE-5XX is what I consider close to ideal here. Perhaps just a teeny bit less would be optimal, but really, not necessary.


*Overall Comfort Impressions:*

I can wear the HE-5XX all day without much hassle aside from periodic breaks from the headband's downward pressure. The HE-5XX is lightweight, the pads feels great, the clamp is moderate and inoffensive, and, the vertical and horizontal pivoting should fit most heads. All in all, I'd consider the HE-5XX quite good for comfort, with the caveat of the headband maybe needing some extra padding.



*Noise Control*​
One of the prime examples of planarmagnetics essentially being speakers on your head, the HE-5XX showcases why open-backed planars are not well suited for any isolation purposes . These leak a metric boatload, in and out. You definitely do not want to take these anywhere that requires noise leakage control, and you'll definitely want your listening station to be behind a closed door or two, as well as maybe playback volume being on the moderate to lower side at night to keep from disturbing others.



*Sound*​
The HE-5XX is a classic case of sounding a league above its price range competitors. At its initial price of $220, I'm simply baffled at how good the HE-5XX sounds. I would've pegged it at being around $400 just off sound alone. It's simply a fantastic sounding headphone, and it's well worth investigating if you're looking for a higher end sounding headphone at a lower price. If you have yet to experience an open-backed planar (and I stress OPEN), your path should immediately lead you here to the 5XX.


*Bass:*

When people wonder how planars sound when they extend to the nether realms of bass, the HE-5XX makes a great example. It goes very, very low, with nice, atmospheric presence. That being said, it isn't particularly heavy handed or potent, so those wanting bass to be at the forefront of sound will need to look elsewhere. It's articulate, well textured, and quite deep, but the impact isn't what I'd consider particularly strong. I'd say it's a neutral/natural sounding bass character. As stated earlier, it extends quite low, but slightly lacks a bit of rumble and impact. On the plus side, the HE-5XX has a considerably large headspace, which makes the bass fill out the sound very well. It's always there with a good sense of body, in the background filling out the ambience. With action movies, and bass heavy music, the bass is quite enjoyable, though it wouldn't be my first choice. Personally, a bit of a bass bump would fill out the bottom end nicely, but then you're altering the sound that may take away from what makes the HE-5XX what it is, and I personally would not want to take away from the 5XX's inherent characteristics. Comparing to the LCD-1 which also has a very bass neutral character, I find the HE-5XX slightly less reserved and more enjoyable down low. It's fuller, with more body and presence.

Frequency testing, you can somewhat hear it going down to below 30hz, but I'd say the low end presence becomes what I'd deem enjoyable starting at around 35-40hz. To compare with the last headphone I reviewed (the PC38X), the PC38X has more presence and energy down low, with a more enjoyable bass volume compared to the HE-5XX. Not that the HE-5XX isn't enjoyable, but that the bass isn't the stand out range in its sound. Overall, the HE-5XX manages its bass well, and those who like neutral bass that isn't being highlighted won't find much to be disappointed with here. It integrates itself well to the rest of the sound.


*Midrange to Treble:*

I wanted to compare midrange to treble with a planar that steers towards neutral, so I brought out the LCD-1. The LCD-1 has a peaky sound at around 3.5k, whereas the HE-5XX doesn't start peaking until about 5.5khz, which is actually not as forward on the LCD-1. This lets me know that my ears aren't hearing everything the same in the ranges. After the 5.5khz peak, there's a drop off at around 7.3khz or so, with the rest up to 10khz being softer hitting, with 10khz itself providing a sparkly peak, which drops off until it peaks again at around 11.5khz, and again at 13.5khz. I'd say there's plenty noticeable of detail to my ears up to around 14khz, with the higher ranges being there, but not as noticeable.

The HE-5XX is particularly present in the mid to treble ranges, with a good amount of energy and bite. There's some mild metallic zing to some S sounds, which can be a little fatiguing at high volumes. This is about the only aspect of the HE-5XX I'm not particularly in love with. I believe the 5XX will be sensitive and picky with source/amp matching.

I feel the midrange gives notes some space to breathe and image around you. It's rather on par and balanced with the bass, with neither being forward or particularly focal. I consider it well integrated to lift up the general sound of the HE-5XX. As such, I do find the midrange to be one of the 5XX's strengths. Yes, it's not in your face, but the harmony with the ambient bass and crisp treble air really gives it a team player-esque quality to it.

The treble ranges begin sharply, with crisp air, and laser focus. The 5.5khz peak is a bit zingier than I'd like, and the dip at about 7.5khz is perhaps a few decibels too soft. To sum up the treble, the 5XX has a brightness to it up top, and will highlight all the minor details. If you prefer a smooth experience, the 5XX isn't for you. It's for those that want some energy and focus up top.



*Soundstage:*

The soundstage is one of the HE-5XX's greatest strengths to my ears. Considering how large and open the drivers are, the HE-5XX exhibits a rather spacious soundstage, which is rather tall and holographic. It's not quite wide like a dynamic driver's open soundstage. Yet, those don't have this level of layering and depth. It is an absolute highlight of the HE-5XX, and those that prefer to feel immersed with a great speaker-like experience will find the HE-5XX to deliver a fantastic stereo presentation. This makes the 5XX one of the greatest showcases for planarmagnetic soundstaging and imaging that I've heard. If you haven't heard a planar, rest assured, the 5XX will convert you on soundstage presence alone. Just playing random music, I'm constantly being surprised by how roomy its sonic presentation is. Absolutely enamored here.


*Clarity:*

The 5XX is a highly detailed headphone. From its articulate and highly textured, atmospheric bass, to its detailed midrange, and finally its razor precision treble, the 5XX is quite proficient in immediate clarity and detail focus. 7.3khz or so hits a little soft and muted, but it's not muffled or lacking in detail. Just low in volume at that range. All in all, the 5XX sounds like it has the clarity and detail of headphones costing far, far more.


*Sound Signature:*

There's something about the 5XX's sound that makes it hard for me to describe. It is energetic, and sharp, with a great sense of space. Its bass extends quite low with a good sense of body. The midrange while not immediate and in your face, meshes well with the rest of the sound. I can't describe it as a warm or lush headphone, but its not lacking in warmth. I also can't call it bright or analytical, because the bass body and ambience fill out the space with some warmth. It definitely isn't flat or neutral either. So it puts me in a bind. It is a transformative signature that can sound warm or bright depending on what you throw at it. Perhaps if I feel more comfortable in the future, I can say what it is. Until then, you'll have to make do with this.


*Amplification:*

I feel the HE-5XX requires moderate amplification to get the most out of it. It wouldn't be my first choice for non-amplification use, and I'd recommend investing in at least an entry level desktop amplifier for it. Ideally, I believe a warmer sounding source/amplifier would benefit its sound signature, which may possibly shave off a little bit of edge in its upper midrange to treble range. I'd personally recommend staying away from dry/analytical gear for the 5XX.



*Gaming*​
The HE-5XX is highly detailed and spacious, with atmospheric sound that makes it a very good headphone for gaming. It's quite dynamic, with a clean sound that helps in competitive gaming awareness. For immersive and casual gaming, it's quite good though it probably wouldn't be my first choice despite it being quite extended down low. It doesn't quite have the rumble, or bass impact that I'd deem ideal for non-competitive use. Not that it's bass light (I'd say it's more bass neutral). I just personally feel it could be a little more rich in the bass. My personal preference. I prefer a warmer, thicker sound for my casual gaming.

As stated earlier, the soundstage is quite holographic with excellent depth. While not quite as wide and as the better soundstaging headphones, the 5XX is exceptional when virtual surround processing is added in. Virtual surround makes the HE-5XX a great headphone for gaming, and I doubt many people would have issues using it for positional accuracy and spatial awareness. It's a great (excellent even) for competitive gaming, and a very good good for casual/immersive gaming uses.



*Personal Recommendations*​

*Practicality:*

The 5XX should be kept strictly for home or personal office use (offices with good noise control). The headphone is as open as they come, so everyone around you will hear what you're listening to, and won't block out any external noise. They also aren't suited for travel due to their size and inability to collapse into a more portable form factor. Keep it in your main setup.


*Who It Is For:*

If you have ever wanted to try a planar, the 5XX is the easy way to go. If you have something like a Sennheiser HD-650/HD-6XX and want a complimentary set of headphones that contrast the more mellow, intimate nature of those headphones, the 5XX makes its case incredibly well. I think having a duo like the HD-6XX and HE-5XX really covers all bases. If I had $500 and didn't have any headphones, this would be my path. HE-5XX and HD-6XX. You ask: "What about a $500 headphone"? I'd still say no. The performance from both are fantastic, and fit different moods. It's hard to find ONE headphone to suit all moods. So having two complimentary headphones that do things differently is ideal, in my opinion. The Audeze LCD-1 is a fantastic $400 headphone that will serve you if you just want a completely honest representation of sound. Complete, uncolored, and accurate. However, I rarely want something steered so far into neutral, without any liberties taken in engagement. To some, having accuracy is ideal (which the Audeze LCD-1 is AMAZING at), but personally, I like my sound with a little more sugar and spice. That's why I'd go for the HE-5XX for the times I want some additional vibrance energy, and the 6XX when I just want to chill out and relax.



*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes:*

Detail, energy
Soundstage depth, imaging, and layering
Speaker-like presentation
Fantastic build quality and materials
Lightweight for a planar
Pads

*Dislikes:*

Time to move on from the old headband design
Short stock cable length
Physical extension leaves marks on the metal
Upper range sizzle, can be a little bright in some ranges



*Final Impressions*​
The problem with places like Drop, is deciding on which headphone to get in their cornucopia of excellent products. We're spoiled for choices, and now we have to contend with another choice in the HE5XX. While it's definitely not perfect, I feel it'd be worth considering even if it was worth nearly double its price. That's not a claim I make lightly. It's that impressive to me, despite the minor flaws.

I may have sounded a bit wishy washy about some aspects of the 5XX, yet it's the first headphone in a very long time that I told myself "You know what, I really want to buy this when it comes out. I don't need it, but I want it." I haven't bought a headphone in a long time, and the 5XX really made me consider it. Something about the way it presents sound that is truly unique, and unlike any other. It is truly a fantastic headphone, whose strengths vastly outweigh any reservations made about its less appealing traits. For $220, this would be my immediate first choice (after the 6XX).

The 5XX may not be what I'd consider the end be all headphone for everyone. That being said, the 5XX is absolutely one of the very best complimentary headphones I've heard to date. Something to have alongside another that it contrasts, like an HD650/HD-6XX. If its specific flavor appeals to you, it CAN be the end be all headphone. If you like a dynamic, energetic sound, with great speaker-like presentation, the 5XX is probably going to be an incredibly beloved headphone for you. It would be my immediate recommendation for that. Over the Beyerdynamic DT880, Philips Fidelio X2, AKG K702, or any midrange headphone I can think of that it probably would get compared to.


----------



## illram (Oct 29, 2020)

I love my HE-560 ("new" version, not OG version). Wonder how different these are?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I wish I could tell you. I missed the HE-500 hype train and went for the vastly underrated HE-4 that released at the same time. Lol.


----------



## illram

Oopsie I meant HE-560, not 500.


----------



## deadchip12

Hi Mad Lust Envy, I know you reviewed the original X2 a long time ago, but could you get a pair of X2HR and make a review of them? Some people say there's a change in how they sound. After all this time, your impressions may change as well. I want to see how they compare to other new headphones you reviewed recently.


----------



## tglodjo

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here's the long awaited reveal and review of the HE-5XX. Sorry for the slight delay today. I started playing Warzone and lost track of time. My apologies.



No apologies necessary. I've been stoked about this review and release. Thanks for posting!


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here's the long awaited reveal and review of the HE-5XX. Sorry for the slight delay today. I started playing Warzone and lost track of time. My apologies.
> 
> 
> *Drop x Hifiman HE-5XX*
> ...


GREAT REVIEW. You are a serious gem and I appreciate all the work you do. I have 2 questions...

QUESTION 1: I would like to buy the 5xx and the Sennheiser 650’s and compare to see which I like better. What amp would you recommend I use if I had to buy one for the test? I have an Astro Mixamp - would that suffice to at least try these two to get the idea?

I play both competitive games and story driven games but care far more that I get lost in the the world and that single player experiences sound amazing rather than locating footsteps. I also like a crisp bass if possible. But I also like to compare side by side. I’m new to all of this, coming from x2’s, which I love and chose over the 598’s, and I’m looking to step things up to the best I can, no budget. I really appreciate your help.

QUESTION 2: Above the 5xx, and 650’s what are your top cans (no budget) in each of the usual categories (immersion, competitive, entertaining, etc)?


----------



## Ethereal Sound

Are the pads on the HE5xx the same as the ones for the susvara? They look the same and the shape is quite similar too.


----------



## Fegefeuer

No, not at all. They look more like the Pali Pads.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Drop x Hifiman HE-5XX*



THE WAIT IS OVER!!!!!!!!

How would you compare them to the Sundara? I got some a few weeks ago and I'm enjoying them.


----------



## MLGrado (Oct 30, 2020)

illram said:


> I love my HE-560 ("new" version, not OG version). Wonder how different these are?



above quote corrected by me to reflect poster's intent.  yeah... I have had the original HE-560, and now one of the later versions, well, these are the version when they changed the cable connectors.  Not sure where they actually fall on the current scale of updates etc.  But they are acting my primary 'phones after selling my Audeze LCD-X and Focal Clear's.  I paid something like $650 for my first pair of 560's. This pair was around $450.  It made me sick to see them drop into the $200's.  Hahaha.  But if anyone has them at that price, I am convinced it is one of the best ever bargains in headphone history, ASSUMING you can properly drive them.  They are not the HE-6, but beware, they can give an amplifier a beating.....

The headphone output on my iFi iDSD Pro at max gain can barely keep up, and it was screaming for mercy last night when playing 'The Planets' performed by the Kansas City Symphony recorded by Dr. Johnson at 24/176khz true PCM with the Pacific Microsonics ADC. No sigma delta in the recording.  This is truly a reference track with dynamic range that is the class of modern recording.  Much of it is spent at low levels to make room for the incredible dynamic swings.  The recording makes full use of the 24 bit true PCM capture ability of the ADC, and will without doubt stretch the human ear to its maximum resolution ability. You can hear it on Qubuz, and download it from Reference Recordings site. 

The headamp in the flagship iFi sounds amazing, but last night with this recording was the first time I heard it compress, and the top of the device actually burnt my fingers when I reached for the volume to give it a rest   On the other hand, my tube head amp, the Icon Audio HP-8 MKII with transformer coupled 6SN7 (in my case I am using 6F8G) doesn't break a sweat with the recording.  I wish I could combine the two amps.  The iDSD onboard amp is so natural, quiet and full of micro details.  The Icon gives up just a bit of all that for power.  Which is why the iFi iCan Pro is on the shopping list for comparison.  anyway.....

assuming you can give the he-560 the power it needs, its a giant killer in many ways.  The description of this Hifman Drop version of the HE-500 sounds a lot like how the HE-560 performs without the need possibly for a big amp. I am also interested if it may actually sound a bit better than the HE-560?  The HE-560 is already one of the best bargain in head-fi history right now.  It would be amazing to see Hifiman  one-up themselves..  Guess I need to get one and do the comparison.  I mean I am saving for the Arya.  But whats a couple hundred bucks to find out and let all my head-fi peeps know about the results lol


----------



## Chastity

@Mad Lust Envy   The pads (those are Hybrid pads, btw) are they removable, or glued on like their other models?


----------



## ricksome

Mad Lust Envy: Vey nice review. Thumbs up for your detail and writing style.


----------



## Chastity

Can someone recommend a desktop amplifier for a set of bookshelf speakers?  I have some Infinity Primus 150's and Klipsch Quintet II sats.  I'm thinking of using the preout of the Asgard 3 to feed the amp, so I can use my DAC and tube preamp w/o having to rewire things.


----------



## omegaorgun

Joshua Valour didn't like it or was he being a negative Nan


illram said:


> I love my HE-500 ("new" version, not OG version). Wonder how different these are?



What are the drivers in that like?


----------



## aznablerey

Thanks for the detailed review.  I've been looking for a neutral planar that isn't ridiculously expensive, and if this one is a retooled Deva (which I'm 90% sure it is), I'll be content.  Used some drop rewards points!  I'll be sure to add my thoughts about it when it arrives.


----------



## illram (Oct 29, 2020)

MLGrado said:


> above quote corrected by me to reflect poster's intent.  yeah... I have had the original HE-560, and now one of the later versions, well, these are the version when they changed the cable connectors.  Not sure where they actually fall on the current scale of updates etc.  But they are acting my primary 'phones after selling my Audeze LCD-X and Focal Clear's.  I paid something like $650 for my first pair of 560's. This pair was around $450.  It made me sick to see them drop into the $200's.  Hahaha.  But if anyone has them at that price, I am convinced it is one of the best ever bargains in headphone history, ASSUMING you can properly drive them.  They are not the HE-6, but beware, they can give an amplifier a beating.....
> 
> The headphone output on my iFi iDSD Pro at max gain can barely keep up, and it was screaming for mercy last night when playing 'The Planets' performed by the Kansas City Symphony recorded by Dr. Johnson at 24/176khz true PCM with the Pacific Microsonics ADC. No sigma delta in the recording.  This is truly a reference track with dynamic range that is the class of modern recording.  Much of it is spent at low levels to make room for the incredible dynamic swings.  The recording makes full use of the 24 bit true PCM capture ability of the ADC, and will without doubt stretch the human ear to its maximum resolution ability.  (you can only get the original master recording at 24bit/176khz at Qobuz)
> 
> ...



I share your love of the 560. I'm slumming it up with an iFi Black Label (/s, I love my Black Label) currently and these cans are basically my number 2 to my HD800S.

I probably won't bite on this drop but, I am curious. Big fan of both my 400i and 560....



FireLion said:


> Joshua Valour didn't like it or was he being a negative Nan
> 
> 
> What are the drivers in that like?



I meant HE-560, not 500. (edited it now). I have never heard a 500. BUT if you saw my edit and are asking about the 560, the 560 are pretty neutral, I'd say, but with that delicious planar bass.


----------



## kumar402

Why is it called HE5XX and not DEVXX. Clearly it resembles DEVA. May be marketing Mumbo Jumbo


----------



## stavros.m

jessjj said:


> GREAT REVIEW. You are a serious gem and I appreciate all the work you do. I have 2 questions...
> 
> QUESTION 1: I would like to buy the 5xx and the Sennheiser 650’s and compare to see which I like better. What amp would you recommend I use if I had to buy one for the test? I have an Astro Mixamp - would that suffice to at least try these two to get the idea?
> 
> ...


I also play more single player games and want the amazing sound over the footsteps. Let me know which headset you chose i currently have the dt990's and looking for an upgrade

thanks


----------



## halcyon (Oct 30, 2020)

kumar402 said:


> Why is it called HE5XX and not DEVXX. Clearly it resembles DEVA. May be marketing Mumbo Jumbo




Because not even Drop people knows what model it is based on, this in the HE-5XX comments at drop.com. But yes, it looks like DEVA variant and measures similarly (and breaks down just as easily).


----------



## Trancefreak

Offtopic question: Is Drop even worth iy for people outside the US?


----------



## jessjj

Forgive me for my newb questions, but is a dac/amp + HE-5xx or the Sennheiser 6xx not doable on a console like PS5? I'm going to be doing half my gaming on PS5, so would that mean I need headphones that do not require an amp? Also, would something like PS5 3d audio be possible with this combo?


----------



## deadchip12

jessjj said:


> Forgive me for my newb questions, but is a dac/amp + HE-5xx or the Sennheiser 6xx not doable on a console like PS5? I'm going to be doing half my gaming on PS5, so would that mean I need headphones that do not require an amp? Also, would something like PS5 3d audio be possible with this combo?


Wondering the same thing. Most likely the tempest 3d audio can pass through usb dac amp.


----------



## Radio81

No one is going to know for sure until the new consoles are out.  Patience.

3D audio via USB on PS5 has been confirmed but:

If your USB DAC didn't work on PS4, I'd be surprised if it works on PS5.  If you have something standard like a USB sound card that works on PS4, I'm willing to bet it also works on PS5.

You can plug any 3.5mm headphone into the DualSense and get 3D audio.  Whether you require an amp or not is dependent on what headphones you have and your own expectations from them.  IMO, everything sounds better when properly amped.


----------



## deadchip12

Radio81 said:


> No one is going to know for sure until the new consoles are out.  Patience.
> 
> 3D audio via USB on PS5 has been confirmed but:
> 
> ...


Luckily, my dac amp is the sound blasterx g6 which works with ps4 so I hope it will work with ps5 as well and 3d audio can pass through. Will never use the port on controller. Utter crap.


----------



## idsyphe

Trancefreak said:


> Offtopic question: Is Drop even worth iy for people outside the US?



depends where you are and whether you have to pay tax on imports. I've bought many things through drop, and haven't had to pay tax on anything (based in NZ), but I'm now in Europe, so suspect I'd get stung with VAT on entry, but sounds like it's just luck as to whether you get pinged or not.


----------



## halcyon

Trancefreak said:


> Offtopic question: Is Drop even worth iy for people outside the US?




Depends quite a bit on your local reseller / headphone prices. Sometimes, when there is a good clearance on drop.com (USA) it still makes sense to import the headphones to, say EU with +5% customs and say 20% VAT. Then again, many drops from USA, at their full price with extra for shipping + customs + VAT just become too expensive after imported to EU.

Of course, this is not just EU specific, you can plug in your own country's customs fee % for headphones and the VAT % and see if it makes sense.

Often it does not.


----------



## stavros.m

@Mad Lust Envy I am sorry for not being patient lol. I am just curious have you had a chance to use the Penrose. I am just curious if you plug in the Penrose to your amp/dac can you use Dolby for headphones. 

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 30, 2020)

Yes, I've connected the Penrose to my Modi 3's line out. The Xonar U3 feeding dolby headphone to the Modi 3. It was fine yesterday, but today I'm getting a lot of distortion through this connection. I'm certain its something to do with how weird the setup is. Or something glitchy with the Aux input on the Penrose's pre-production. Remember this is not a finalized Penrose, and there are kinks. In any case, you shouldn't be getting a Penrose if you plan on mainly using it through its AUX input, which defeats the purpose of having it be wireless to begin with. I'm merely testing it this way for the sake of testing.

Anyways, you can get Dolby atmos from the wireless connection through windows 10, though I don't like it anywhere near as much as Dolby Headphone.

The Penrose shouldn't have any problem getting whatever the PS5's virtual surround is gonna be. The Penrose is picked up by the PS4 natively as well.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes, I've connected the Penrose to my Modi 3's line out. The Xonar U3 feeding dolby headphone to the Modi 3. It was fine yesterday, but today I'm getting a lot of distortion through this connection. I'm certain its something to do with how weird the setup is. Or something glitchy with the Aux input on the Penrose's pre-production. Remember this is not a finalized Penrose, and there are kinks. In any case, you shouldn't be getting a Penrose if you plan on mainly using it through its AUX input, which defeats the purpose of having it be wireless to begin with. I'm merely testing it this way for the sake of testing.
> 
> Anyways, you can get Dolby atmos from the wireless connection through windows 10, though I don't like it anywhere near as much as Dolby Headphone.
> 
> The Penrose shouldn't have any problem getting whatever the PS5's virtual surround is gonna be. The Penrose is picked up by the PS4 natively as well.


thank you for the reply back


----------



## Blackninja69

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes, I've connected the Penrose to my Modi 3's line out. The Xonar U3 feeding dolby headphone to the Modi 3. It was fine yesterday, but today I'm getting a lot of distortion through this connection. I'm certain its something to do with how weird the setup is. Or something glitchy with the Aux input on the Penrose's pre-production. Remember this is not a finalized Penrose, and there are kinks. In any case, you shouldn't be getting a Penrose if you plan on mainly using it through its AUX input, which defeats the purpose of having it be wireless to begin with. I'm merely testing it this way for the sake of testing.
> 
> Anyways, you can get Dolby atmos from the wireless connection through windows 10, though I don't like it anywhere near as much as Dolby Headphone.
> 
> The Penrose shouldn't have any problem getting whatever the PS5's virtual surround is gonna be. The Penrose is picked up by the PS4 natively as well.


R u going to make a detailed review for the audeze penrose just like how u did one for the hifiman he-55x


----------



## shortstack31489

deadchip12 said:


> Luckily, my dac amp is the sound blasterx g6 which works with ps4 so I hope it will work with ps5 as well and 3d audio can pass through. Will never use the port on controller. Utter crap.


The only thing I hate, is running a cable from the console to the headset but overall, I agree


----------



## shortstack31489

Trancefreak said:


> Offtopic question: Is Drop even worth iy for people outside the US?


It depends of the fees/ duties of the country, unfortunately


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Blackninja69 said:


> R u going to make a detailed review for the audeze penrose just like how u did one for the hifiman he-55x


Of course. That's why they're sent to me.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey Everyone  just curious would the E30 + L30 pair good with the dt 990s 250 ohms or will the neutral sound take away of the dt990 sound. So many reviews got me mixed up. 

thanks


----------



## Xero the Banana

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Of course. That's why they're sent to me.


Curious, do you know if the penrose works in low latency wireless on mobile via apple donger usb adapter / android equivalent?

Also great review for the he5xx! If you still remember the sound, can you compare the 5xx to the edition xx or the ananda?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 31, 2020)

Xero the Banana said:


> Curious, do you know if the penrose works in low latency wireless on mobile via apple donger usb adapter / android equivalent?
> 
> Also great review for the he5xx! If you still remember the sound, can you compare the 5xx to the edition xx or the ananda?


That's a good question, I'm gonna give it a go. I have a usb C to big usb A to connect my 8bitdo wireless controller adapter to my Nintendo Switch.

I'll report back.


EDIT:






Can confirm: THIS WORKS PERFECTLY (made sure to turn off Bluetooth to know it was 100% on dongle frequency) on my Note 20 Ultra (not sure if it'll work on other phones). So if you are like at work or somewhere where you're just using the phone for audio, this is great, and will be better than using the Bluetooth, which is only limited to SBC, and AAC post launch. May as well try if/when you have a Penrose. Just make sure to get a type C male to Type A female cable, which shouldn't be hard on Amazon and other etailers.

Obviously if you are mobile, I'd probably stick to Bluetooth to not mess up your phone's port or the dongle from breaking.

ALSO!



Penrose also works perfectly with the Switch! I'd probably try and find a way to hold the cable behind the system while holding it, but yeah, this is great.


----------



## Blackninja69

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Of course. That's why they're sent to me.


Ok cant wait for it


----------



## Xero the Banana

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's a good question, I'm gonna give it a go. I have a usb C to big usb A to connect my 8bitdo wireless controller adapter to my Nintendo Switch.
> 
> I'll report back.
> 
> ...


Thanks a bunch! I’ve been on the fence about ordering the penrose but I might give it a shot. Any comparisons to the LCD-1 in sound or is that reserved for your future review?


----------



## funnyjoke (Oct 31, 2020)

Guys, I just got my X2HRs today and I'm not seeing how these are considered special? Coming from an Anker Soundcore Vortex, I'm not impressed at all. It's kind of difficult to tell where footsteps are in CS:GO and others' voice quality is so bad; both these things were much better with the Anker Vortex. LOL. The X2HRs just sound muddy and veiled.. weird.

Am I mistaken? Is it a problem with the wire or the splitter I'm using (which turns mic and audio into one jack)? I'm using Amazon's cable boom mic since V-Moda wasn't available.

BTW, I'm not using an amp or DAC.


----------



## deadchip12

funnyjoke said:


> Guys, I just got my X2HRs today and I'm not seeing how these are considered special? Coming from an Anker Soundcore Vortex, I'm not impressed at all. It's kind of difficult to tell where footsteps are in CS:GO and others' voice quality is so bad; both these things were much better with the Anker Vortex. LOL. The X2HRs just sound muddy and veiled.. weird.
> 
> Am I mistaken? Is it a problem with the wire or the splitter I'm using (which turns mic and audio into one jack)? I'm using Amazon's cable boom mic since V-Moda wasn't available.
> 
> BTW, I'm not using an amp or DAC.


Mine is crystal clear, maybe even a bit bright. Muddy is the last word I would use to describe this pair. Imaging may be somewhat inferior compared to other headphones though so maybe that's why you find it difficult to tell footsteps. Mid is distant and quiet but I won't say it's bad. I actually enjoy listening to podcast with the x2hr very much (I like the grating feel in the treble).


----------



## funnyjoke

deadchip12 said:


> Mine is crystal clear, maybe even a bit bright. Muddy is the last word I would use to describe this pair. Imaging may be somewhat inferior compared to other headphones though so maybe that's why you find it difficult to tell footsteps. Mid is distant and quiet but I won't say it's bad. I actually enjoy listening to podcast with the x2hr very much (I like the grating feel in the treble).


Hmm, might be imaging then. Sorry for calling them muddy, I guess veiled is a more proper term. They sound like someone who has a hand over their mouth lol. I'm trying to see if my opinions change though. But for $160, I was expecting them to be way way better.


----------



## illram

Whenever you listen to one headphone for a while, and then listen to another, even if you are going from a so so headphone to a good one, it will sound weird. Not necessarily bad, just "off." Your brain gets used to the headphone you're using and anything else just sounds strange. But that feeling passes. Also aren't the Anker noise cancelling? Getting used to that will definitely make anything else sound strange at first.

Give the X2HR's a little more time would be my humble suggestion.


----------



## funnyjoke

illram said:


> Whenever you listen to one headphone for a while, and then listen to another, even if you are going from a so so headphone to a good one, it will sound weird. Not necessarily bad, just "off." Your brain gets used to the headphone you're using and anything else just sounds strange. But that feeling passes. Also aren't the Anker noise cancelling? Getting used to that will definitely make anything else sound strange at first.
> 
> Give the X2HR's a little more time would be my humble suggestion.


I agree with you to an extent but I still believe it's kind of apparent that these are noticeably veiled.
Anker Vortex are bluetooth but no, not noise-cancelling.
I'll try to get used to the sound and give it another thought though, yeah.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 1, 2020)

So I decided to give Waves NX software a go. Immediately would say that of all the software based virtual surrounds, this one is the best. And the license is only $10. There is a 30 day free trial though.

Why do I think it's the best? Because they actually put some distance between you and the sound cues, which Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and DTS Headphone X software based options lack.

You can chose three presets between Voice, Multimedia, and Movie Theater. Multimedia is the most balanced, but it still lacks a bit of room size. So I'd say Movie Theater is the choice I'd make. Rear audio cues are noticeably behind you, as opposed to the others. Ideally I'd make the room size a little smaller than Movie Theater, but for the sake of positional accuracy, it's fine.

I think for pure SQ's sake Dolby Atmos and Waves NX Multimedia are on par with one another. But when I play, if I have to sacrifice a little bit of SQ for surround size and accuracy, I will, hence why I use Movie Theater.

This just brings up what I wish all these had, and that is a room size slider. It's annoying that they aren't there.

So in a pinch, I'd recommend ANYONE the Waves NX software for easy virtual surround, if you don't have hardware.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I decided to give Waves NX software a go. Immediately would say that of all the software based virtual surrounds, this one is the best. And the license is only $10. There is a 30 day free trial though.
> 
> Why do I think it's the best? Because they actually put some distance between you and the sound cues, which Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and DTS Headphone X software based options lack.
> 
> You can chose three presets between Voice, Multimedia, and Movie Theater. Multimedia is the most balanced, but it still lacks a bit of room size. So I'd say Movie


I have to agree. Of the all I tested, this is the best easy software add-on for 3D DPS games when the aim is sound-localization and not just gimmicky echo. Good find!


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Trancefreak said:


> Offtopic question: Is Drop even worth iy for people outside the US?


I live in Canada. when I purchased a HD6xx, I as dinged for HST. It was now over 2 years ago and I still them out occasionally. Drop (formally, Massdrop) treated me fairly when the stock cable shorted out. instead of replacing the cable, they gave me a refund. It was based on how much a Senheisser replacement cable cable would cost. Since I replaced that cable (with Senheisser’s fragile cup jacks), I’ve been pleased with it. Som yes @Trancefreak , I’d give Drop a try!   


jessjj said:


> Forgive me for my newb questions, but is a dac/amp + HE-5xx or the Sennheiser 6xx not doable on a console like PS5? I'm going to be doing half my gaming on PS5, so would that mean I need headphones that do not require an amp? Also, would something like PS5 3d audio be possible with this combo?


Welcome to the forum, @jessjj ! Before I got silly (and purchased many brushed aluminum boxes and [at last count, 4 different cans]), I attempted to drive an elderly pair of HD515 ‘phones.... using just my console-controller’s jack output. It sounded anemic. Eventually, I purchased a used TurtleBeach Earforce DSS2 dac/amp (for about 50 bucks CAD). I plugged it into my Xbox’s TOSLINK, and used its USB port to power the DSS2. I then played the Witcher (Wild Hunt).
...
........
................holy s@@t. I was pleasantly surprised. External DAC-amps *do not* have to be expensive. Hell, this little box might be your solution. *My vote*: don’t bother with the console’s or controllers’ built-in jack.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Question is whether the PS5 will recognize the Fulla and other Schiit dacs properly.

A Schiit Hel would be ideal if it does.


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Question is whether the PS5 will recognize the Fulla and other Schiit dacs properly.
> 
> A Schiit Hel would be ideal if it does.


...as I understand it, both the Hel and Fulla USB interfaces recognize both PS and Xbox system.
_*Go to FAQ questions 7 and 8 for more details...
https://www.schiit.com/products/fulla-1*_


----------



## ScubaMan2017

Btw... if the $99 price tag for the current Fulla is too much, I’d recommend one of their B stocks. My 2 cents...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well that's great. I def recommend the Fulla if not using big boy headphones, and Hel if you are.


----------



## mindbomb

How does waves nx handle the situation if you have a 2 channel dac? Does it create a 7.1 sound device?


----------



## Hagla (Nov 1, 2020)

I


Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's a good question, I'm gonna give it a go. I have a usb C to big usb A to connect my 8bitdo wireless controller adapter to my Nintendo Switch.
> 
> I'll report back.
> 
> ...


I have another question IRT connectivity but you may not be able to answer since you may not have a set of Penrose X for testing. I've heard a few rumours that the Penrose X will work on both Xbox Series X and the PS5 but not the other way around (meaning the Penrose for PlayStation will only work on PlayStation).

I currently have the Penrose pre ordered but if I found out the Penrose X works with both I'd definitely change to the Penrose X.

Edit: if you do have a set of Penrose X, I'd be interested to know if they connect to the PS4.


----------



## Naedtrax

There's a local discount of $100 for the Penrose preorder in Australia.. Is it basically a mobius without the bells and whistles?? So same sound but better mic like they've "insisted"?


----------



## Chastity

mindbomb said:


> How does waves nx handle the situation if you have a 2 channel dac? Does it create a 7.1 sound device?


Waves NX will install a virtual sound driver, and you config the app to play out your desired audio device.  The Virtual driver reports multichannel support to the apps, and mixes it down to HRTF 2.0 for your device to play.


----------



## matthewh133 (Nov 1, 2020)

Do I need a special soundcard/dac for good spatial awareness in games? IE in Warzone, I need to pinpoint the footsteps as best as possible. I currently go from my computer to the JDS Element II as my DAC/Amp, and I'm selling my Focal Elear because they give me a headache. If I get a K712, should I be good to go, or should I use a different DAC/soundcard? Do I need a separate software?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 1, 2020)

I'm currently with a Penrose, not a Penrose X.



mindbomb said:


> How does waves nx handle the situation if you have a 2 channel dac? Does it create a 7.1 sound device?


Yes, it behaves as a 7.1 device.


----------



## PurpleAngel (Nov 2, 2020)

matthewh133 said:


> Do I need a special soundcard/dac for good spatial awareness in games? IE in Warzone, I need to pinpoint the footsteps as best as possible. I currently go from my computer to the JDS Element II as my DAC/Amp, and I'm selling my Focal Elear because they give me a headache. If I get a K712, should I be good to go, or should I use a different DAC/sound card? Do I need a separate software?


You have many options for headphone surround sound.
Whatever headphone surround sound functions that might come included with some games
Older Creative sound cards with CMSS-3D
Newer Creative sound cards with the SoundCore 3D DSP chip (SBX and Scout Mode)
Creative's SBX software (X-Fi, $30) that runs off your motherboard's onboard audio (built in sound card).
There is Dolby Headphone surround sound (older Asus cards?)
Newer Asus cards with Sonic Radar.
Several third parties that offer a software package for headphone surround sound.
A few people prefer to use stereo (2.0) audio for surround sound gaming.
Other stuff that offers headphone surround sound, that I'm not really familiar with.

One option is to get a DAC that uses an optical input, connect it to the motherboard's optical output port and run an analog connection from the DAC's output port (line-output) to the input port (RCA) on the Element II
And get Creative's $30 software, this way the processed headphone surround sound is sent out thru the motherboard's optical port.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I decided to give Waves NX software a go. Immediately would say that of all the software based virtual surrounds, this one is the best. And the license is only $10. There is a 30 day free trial though.
> 
> Why do I think it's the best? Because they actually put some distance between you and the sound cues, which Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, and DTS Headphone X software based options lack.
> 
> ...


I tried this before and I think the reverb is too much, especially in Movie Theater mode. Sure it gives you an impression of a very wide speaker-like sound field but the sound quality seems to noticeably degrade. Maybe I will try it again later.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 2, 2020)

If i have to sacrifice sound quality of the virtual surround to get more distance between me and the sound cues, where I can noticeably discern front and back, I'm willing to give it up. Yes, movie theater has more reverb, but I can clearly make out what's behind me, as opposed to the other presets where it may take me a moment to know if something is in front or behind me.

Being able to locate where sounds are coming from vastly outweighs the quality of the sound for me. Hence why I've always said I'd take a KSC75 in virtual surround over an HD800 in stereo.


----------



## MapleRebel (Nov 2, 2020)

Hi all! Just wondering if I could get a little help. I've been reading about this stuff for a week and a half now and I am just plain confused. I wanted a good set of headphones for PS5. I slowly settled on a pair of HD560s and a G6amp. I wanted something I could buy in Canada and return if needed. Also I wanted to be able to move between my office and the living room where I game.

Am I way off base here? The cost has escalated way past what I initially was planning on spending thanks to the amp. I started looking at PC38x and was about to order it, but I got cold feet because I can't return it. Also started seeing some negative reviews in forums.

It's hard for me to judge this stuff. I've never had a good set of headphones. My use case is classical music during the day in the office and some gaming at night. I started looking at closed backs but it seems like open backs would give me a nice sound, be easier to wear and let me hear family when I need to.

I just want to get a sense if I'm going in the right direction. I've read all the guides and I think I know less than I did when I started....


----------



## idsyphe

MapleRebel said:


> Hi all! Just wondering if I could get a little help. I've been reading about this stuff for a week and a half now and I am just plain confused. I wanted a good set of headphones for PS5. I know nothing has been confirmed yet, but I slowly settled on a pair of HD560s and a G6amp. I know there are other options, but I wanted something I could buy in Canada and return if needed. Also I wanted to be able to move between my office and the living room where I game.
> 
> Am I way off base here? The cost has escalated way past what I initially was planning on spending (THANKS APPARENTLY NECESSARY AMP!), so part of me wonders if I should just throw in the towel and grab the Penrose instead. It definitely seems easier than all this wired stuff. My whole use case was music during the day in the office and some gaming at night. I've never tried open backs, but they seem to fit that use case and the sound leakage doesn't seem excessive for late night play. I don't want to wake up the whole house when I'm trying to relax, but hearing if someone needs me if helpful.
> 
> Sorry, bit of a ramble, I just want to get a sense if I'm going in the right direction. I've read all the guides and I think I know less than I did when I started....



You won't wake up the house with open backs, at the worst someone in the same room may hear some light noise, but I game about 2m away from my wife when she's on the couch and she has only noticed a couple of times.

While the headphone choice may stay the same, I'd recommend holding off until the PS5 comes out before purchasing a DAC/Amp, as we're not really sure what will work yet, ideally you want a device that can plug in via USB and provide the tempest surround track, so while the G6 may work, I don't think it's been confirmed yet.


----------



## MapleRebel

idsyphe said:


> You won't wake up the house with open backs, at the worst someone in the same room may hear some light noise, but I game about 2m away from my wife when she's on the couch and she has only noticed a couple of times.
> 
> While the headphone choice may stay the same, I'd recommend holding off until the PS5 comes out before purchasing a DAC/Amp, as we're not really sure what will work yet, ideally you want a device that can plug in via USB and provide the tempest surround track, so while the G6 may work, I don't think it's been confirmed yet.



Thanks! I edited my post a bit to make it a little more clear. Can the PS4 pad drive these headphones at all?


----------



## idsyphe

MapleRebel said:


> Thanks! I edited my post a bit to make it a little more clear. Can the PS4 pad drive these headphones at all?



Not having those specific headphones, I can't say for sure, when I plug my K7xx (64ohms) in, I have to pretty much max volume, so you may find you have to do the same. I'm just going to plug into my headphones until we have a better answer, but may use some of the my other headphones which have lower impedance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I second waiting on ps5 for dac/amp or purchases. If anything the 560 should at least get moderate volume on the controller jack until you get a dac/amp.

And I'd like to know who would hate on the PC38X. That headset is AWESOME. Considering that the 560 is leaner and more analytical, I'd personally go for the PC38X which is great for everything. It's very well rounded.


----------



## deadchip12 (Nov 2, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I second waiting on ps5 for dac/amp or purchases. If anything the 560 should at least get moderate volume on the controller jack until you get a dac/amp.
> 
> And I'd like to know who would hate on the PC38X. That headset is AWESOME. Considering that the 560 is leaner and more analytical, I'd personally go for the PC38X which is great for everything. It's very well rounded.


Could someone paint the 38x all black and remove the mic? I'll pay extra lol


----------



## idsyphe

deadchip12 said:


> Could someone painted the 38x all black and remove the mic? I'll pay extra lol



may as well just go for the TYGR300R then, should also be cheaper if you're in Europe


----------



## deadchip12

idsyphe said:


> may as well just go for the TYGR300R then, should also be cheaper if you're in Europe


The red accent and the symbol on the ear cup along with the undetachable cable also turn me off.


----------



## MapleRebel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I second waiting on ps5 for dac/amp or purchases. If anything the 560 should at least get moderate volume on the controller jack until you get a dac/amp.
> 
> And I'd like to know who would hate on the PC38X. That headset is AWESOME. Considering that the 560 is leaner and more analytical, I'd personally go for the PC38X which is great for everything. It's very well rounded.



Thanks! Well, if you look hard enough someone on the internet will find a reason to hate something. Especially if it's getting any sort of positive attention.

I'm going to take another look at the PC38X, since it seems like a lot less hassle to get up and running. Does it respond well to amps? That would be something I might look into down the road, once the mega-electronics purchase month is behind me (TV, PS5, headphones, indoor training bike.....yikes). 

I'm looking at my current headphones, a pair of apple earbuds and a pair of free beats....I feel like it would be hard to disappoint me. Also, I didn't realize Drop had a small discount for first time buyers. That softens the blow for importing.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They are easy enough to drive, so an entry level dac/amp like a Schiit Fulla will drive them wonderfully.


----------



## MapleRebel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They are easy enough to drive, so an entry level dac/amp like a Schiit Fulla will drive them wonderfully.


Thank you. You've been really helpful!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just remember, if you're used to Beats, you're gonna have much less bass in the mix. That and going open backed changes how bass hits, so GIVE IT TIME. Let your ears adjust to the difference.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They are easy enough to drive, so an entry level dac/amp like a Schiit Fulla will drive them wonderfully.


I'm currently using my Schiit Fulla 3, two thumbs up


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I really liked the Fulla 3 a lot. If it wasn't that I got to keep the Hel, I def would've been happy with it. The mic input is loud and clear too.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey just curious has anyone gotten a Pulse 3D Wireless Headset. What are you thoughts

thanks


----------



## suspects

want a 5xx but i need a dac amp (will be using for gaming and some music) and i am looking between the G6 and the fulla 3. any thoughts?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 5, 2020)

Best Buy auto cancelled my month held PS5 preorder, because I tried to update my payment info that gave me errors. Had I just left the card I purchased it with, it would've been fine, but NOOOO, I tried to use THEIR stupid Best Buy card instead, and now I'm out a impossible to get PS5 because of THEIR system. I contacted customer service, and they were as helpful as a steaming pile of dog crap, with their moronic we're sorry replies. No help whatsoever.

So sorry guys, looks like I won't be able to test the Penrose with the PS5 next week. Thank Best Buy for ruining EVERYTHING.

I'm so infuriated right now, I don't even wanna deal with reviews. What a Christmas this is going to turn out to be.


----------



## Naedtrax

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Best Buy auto cancelled my month held PS5 preorder, because I tried to update my payment info that gave me errors. Had I just left the card I purchased it with, it would've been fine, but NOOOO, I tried to use THEIR stupid Best Buy card instead, and now I'm out a impossible to get PS5 because of THEIR system. I contacted customer service, and they were as helpful as a steaming pile of dog crap, with their moronic we're sorry replies. No help whatsoever.
> 
> So sorry guys, looks like I won't be able to test the Penrose with the PS5 next week. Thank Best Buy for ruining EVERYTHING.
> 
> I'm so infuriated right now, I don't even wanna deal with reviews. What a Christmas this is going to turn out to be.


That really sucks.. If you were in Australia I could have helped you out


----------



## idsyphe

Mad Lust Envy said:


> to update my payment info that gave me errors. Had I just left the card I purchased it with, it would've been fine, but NOOOO, I tried to use THEIR stupid Best Buy card instead, and now I'm out a impossible to get PS5 because of THEIR system. I contacted customer service, and they were as helpful as a steaming pile of dog crap, with their moronic we're sorry replies. No help whatsoever.
> 
> So sorry guys, looks like I won't be able to test the Penrose with the PS5 next week. Thank Best Buy for ruining EVERYTHING.



That sucks man, I changed bank accounts and specifically kept my old one open as I didn't want to tempt fate on my Series X pre-order, had to tell my wife not to let the balance dip


----------



## Helvetica bold

stavros.m said:


> Hey just curious has anyone gotten a Pulse 3D Wireless Headset. What are you thoughts
> 
> thanks


Ive been using the Pulse 3D while Im finishing up The Last of Us 2. For a $100 pair of headphones I really like them. The week before I picked up the hard to find SteelSeries 7x but I need to spend more time with it. I like how the Pulse 3D work with the PS4/PS5 OS so you get a flag when it syncs and give you battery status etc. If everything goes according to plan I'll have a PS5 next week and can check out the 3D audio.

first review


----------



## Avean

Ive used the Sennheiser HD700 for years now but looking to go from Open design to closed headset. Are there any mid/high end closed headphones that are comfortable to use for many hours? HD700 i dont even feel on my head, super comfortable and breathe perfectly.  So much noise where i play/listen to music so a closed headset would be ideal.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Maybe wait for the Penrose


----------



## Avean

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Maybe wait for the Penrose



wow never heard of those before. Looks very interesting. I see my local head-fi shop will have it on demo in a few days. Will definetely check it out. Skeptical about wireless but if it works good this is definetely a game changer.


----------



## deadchip12

Helvetica bold said:


> Ive been using the Pulse 3D while Im finishing up The Last of Us 2. For a $100 pair of headphones I really like them. The week before I picked up the hard to find SteelSeries 7x but I need to spend more time with it. I like how the Pulse 3D work with the PS4/PS5 OS so you get a flag when it syncs and give you battery status etc. If everything goes according to plan I'll have a PS5 next week and can check out the 3D audio.
> 
> first review



Could you help test if 3d audio works on other wired headphones? Thanks.


----------



## dandiego

deadchip12 said:


> Could you help test if 3d audio works on other wired headphones? Thanks.


Sony has confirmed this:
"On the PS5, you’ll be able to experience 3D Audio with the headphones that many of you already own, either through USB connection to the console, or by plugging your headphones into the DualSense wireless controller’s 3.5mm headset jack."
https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...v-virtual-surround-sound-coming-after-launch/


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
Last year I have Meze 99 classic for gaming on PS4, but I want better sound quality in games (and in VSS). Can someone tell me next step headphones That will give me better sound in games? It’s must be closed(!) and cost about 300-400 $ new or used. Thanks!!



dandiego said:


> Sony has confirmed this:
> "On the PS5, you’ll be able to experience 3D Audio with the headphones that many of you already own, either through USB connection to the console, or by plugging your headphones into the DualSense wireless controller’s 3.5mm headset jack."
> https://blog.playstation.com/2020/1...v-virtual-surround-sound-coming-after-launch/


Via USB it’s mean Bluetooth headphones?

And for me it’s a big big question - DOES PS5 will support Bluetooth headphones? PS4 don’t do it, only headset for PS4 by Sony. What’s about PS5?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 8, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> Via USB it’s mean Bluetooth headphones?


No, it means USB...headsets that connect via USB cables...to the USB port...

You don't wanna use Bluetooth for gaming. Too much delay. That's why it was not supported on PS4.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, it means USB...headsets that connect via USB cables...to the USB port...
> 
> You don't wanna use Bluetooth for gaming. Too much delay. That's why it was not supported on PS4.


Okay but Sony’s new pulse headset is Bluetooth, and new Audeze headphones is Bluetooth. No problem with delay?


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Best Buy auto cancelled my month held PS5 preorder, because I tried to update my payment info that gave me errors. Had I just left the card I purchased it with, it would've been fine, but NOOOO, I tried to use THEIR stupid Best Buy card instead, and now I'm out a impossible to get PS5 because of THEIR system. I contacted customer service, and they were as helpful as a steaming pile of dog crap, with their moronic we're sorry replies. No help whatsoever.
> 
> So sorry guys, looks like I won't be able to test the Penrose with the PS5 next week. Thank Best Buy for ruining EVERYTHING.
> 
> I'm so infuriated right now, I don't even wanna deal with reviews. What a Christmas this is going to turn out to be.



Wow this sucks to hear. :/
Keep your head up, I’m sure you’ll find one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 9, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> Okay but Sony’s new pulse headset is Bluetooth, and new Audeze headphones is Bluetooth. No problem with delay?


The Audeze Penrose is NOT Bluetooth. I mean, it HAS bluetooth, but it's using 2.4ghz wireless frequency for the main audio. Bluetooth is secondary, and not the intended main use. It's a bonus, to use with stuff like phones.

The Sony Pulse 3D headset is ALSO not Bluetooth. I don't know where you got that from. It uses a small usb dongle just like the Audeze Penrose.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Audeze Penrose is NOT Bluetooth. I mean, it HAS bluetooth, but it's using 2.4ghz wireless frequency for the main audio. Bluetooth is secondary, and not the intended main use. It's a bonus, to use with stuff like phones.
> 
> The Sony Pulse 3D headset is ALSO not Bluetooth. I don't know where you got that from. It uses a small usb dongle just like the Audeze Penrose.


Okay. Thanks. But I hope that all Bluetooth headphones will be working with ps5.

Penrose interesting headphones but no one hear it and don’t know about sound quality


----------



## Rozzko

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> Last year I have Meze 99 classic for gaming on PS4, but I want better sound quality in games (and in VSS). Can someone tell me next step headphones That will give me better sound in games? It’s must be closed(!) and cost about 300-400 $ new or used. Thanks!!
> 
> 
> ...


No one can tell me about next step after meze 99?


----------



## matthewh133 (Nov 9, 2020)

Is the normal K702 that you can buy on Amazon the same as the K701 reviewed here? I know you have a K702 65th Anniversary Edition on the list and said it was more like the Q701, but I'm looking for the competitive gaming performance of the K701. Also it is true the new no bump and 8 bump K701 that's on Amazon is not as good for gaming as the old K701? I'm playing Warzone on PC and wanting to get the best positional headphones possible.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I dunno. I'd personally buy a K701 myself if I didn't already have so many headphones at home that I hardly even use.


----------



## yugnat

Just got a shipping notification from Best Buy for my Series X, can't wait to plug in my X7 and see what we get in terms of compatibility and surround effects.  I guess we can start dissecting what works starting on Wednesday!


----------



## danterikxx

yugnat said:


> Just got a shipping notification from Best Buy for my Series X, can't wait to plug in my X7 and see what we get in terms of compatibility and surround effects.  I guess we can start dissecting what works starting on Wednesday!



I also have the X7, but will buy the PS5 (when i can find stock)

Keep me posted on your experience with them


----------



## danterikxx

matthewh133 said:


> Is the normal K702 that you can buy on Amazon the same as the K701 reviewed here? I know you have a K702 65th Anniversary Edition on the list and said it was more like the Q701, but I'm looking for the competitive gaming performance of the K701. Also it is true the new no bump and 8 bump K701 that's on Amazon is not as good for gaming as the old K701? I'm playing Warzone on PC and wanting to get the best positional headphones possible.



i have the K702. Never had the K701

People say they're similar in sound


----------



## born2relax

177x GO review for gaming? pretty sure they're awesome for music.


----------



## shortstack31489

born2relax said:


> 177x GO review for gaming? pretty sure they're awesome for music.


What kind of gaming? Immersive gaming would likely be fine but these would not be good for fps given the increased, bloated bass response


----------



## born2relax

shortstack31489 said:


> What kind of gaming? Immersive gaming would likely be fine but these would not be good for fps given the increased, bloated bass response



Mainly FPS. From the reviews I've read, the 177x Soundstage seems to be on par with the 6xx (which is good not great) but the  177x seem to have excellent imaging for positional audio.


----------



## Azurik

Just a quick one: do I have to tick the surround box under windows enhancements when using atoms for headphones, or it that a separate thing and will cause double processing?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 10, 2020)

Thanks to @dandiego here, I'll be hopefully receiving the PS5 soon. Which I'll be testing for functionality with the Penrose, Mobius, Modi/Magni 3, Hel.

It's all thanks to him that I'll be able to do this.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Thanks to @dandiego here, I'll be hopefully receiving the PS5 soon. Which I'll be testing for functionality with the Penrose, Mobius, Modi/Magni 3, Hel.
> 
> It's all thanks to him that I'll be able to do this.


Gotta love the great people in this community


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

He really saved the day, that's for sure. As far as I'm concerned he can bother me about what headphones to get at any time.


----------



## shortstack31489

born2relax said:


> Mainly FPS. From the reviews I've read, the 177x Soundstage seems to be on par with the 6xx (which is good not great) but the  177x seem to have excellent imaging for positional audio.


I've owned enumerous headphones on the hunt for the perfect fps headphone and the 177x is far from the top. Soundstage is tolerable for a close back but the bass response is far too great drowning out the footsteps. Much better options for fps gaming


----------



## kadinh

born2relax said:


> Mainly FPS. From the reviews I've read, the 177x Soundstage seems to be on par with the 6xx (which is good not great) but the  177x seem to have excellent imaging for positional audio.


Did you mean DT 1990? That is the headphone I see recommended all the time for FPS.


----------



## Youcan1

Hopefully my Fiio K5 Pro will work with the PS5 (unlikely). Back when I had the Fidelio X2 they were barely tolerable using the DS4 jack. I'll be getting my PS5 Monday so I'll be testing the K5 and the Dualsense controller output.


----------



## Prpnnightmare (Nov 11, 2020)

Well, after the 5XX review and impressions, I'm at a bit of a loss. My HE-4XX headband is in absolutely terrible condition, but without a cost effective replacement available I'm basically stuck in new headphone territory, and unsure what to get. Currently leaning towards the K712 Pro, but also considering going in deep on the E-MU Teak, Fostex 610, or something alike.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Been lurking on this thread for years, purchasing a HD598 based on MLE's impressions. Paired with the Mixamp, they've been awesome for the 6 years I've used them.

With the PS5 coming out and the uncertainty around the USB capabilities, I thought I'd replace the 598 with the PC38x, I wanted less hassle and wires with the in-built mic, and perhaps the Dualsense would more easily drive them considering they have a lower impedence, 28 vs the 598's 50 ohms.

However, upon using the 38x I'm not particularly keen on them. Personally, I find them really uncomfortable. Despite the fact that my head is kinda small, the PC38x are really tight, and I mean too snug to be comfortable for even short gaming sessions for me. My ears just barely fit in the pads, which is a strange sensation being used to the bigger roomier pads of the 598 for so long.

In terms of comparing the competitiveness, I had assumed, based on various reviews, the PC38x would have the advantage. 
But testing repeatedly on MW2019 both in private match with bots and in regular public matches, I was better able to discern audio cues with the HD598. But the 38x was very close (and do bear in mind that I am very familiar with the sound signature of the 598s in MW).

Curiously, with the mixamp on the same volume, the 598s were louder than the 38x. Considering their respective impedance measurements, this was not what I expected. It could just be the emphasis of certain tones, but to me the 598s were louder in every respect, leading me to believe they were easier to drive than the 38x.

All in all the PC38x are great, but severely let down by its comfort. Despite its convenience over the 598, the latter is infinitely more comfortable.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

UrsusMajor said:


> Been lurking on this thread for years, purchasing a HD598 based on MLE's impressions. Paired with the Mixamp, they've been awesome for the 6 years I've used them.
> 
> With the PS5 coming out and the uncertainty around the USB capabilities, I thought I'd replace the 598 with the PC38x, I wanted less hassle and wires with the in-built mic, and perhaps the Dualsense would more easily drive them considering they have a lower impedence, 28 vs the 598's 50 ohms.
> 
> ...



They are clampy at first. I suggest doing what I always do: fold a pillow and mount the headset to it overnight. Make sure when it's mounted that it's been stretched out a little. If you're worried about the pads, just snap then off before doing this.

This will loosen the clamp.


----------



## Radio81

With my 37X I had to stretch them quite a bit, holding an ear cup in each hand and pulling them away from each other.  After that, I think they are plenty comfortable.  I do wish Sennheiser would sell the 38X headband and fabric (not velour) earcups as replacement parts so I could try them on my 37X.

Side note, I received some MMCX modded KSC75's last week and have been using those lately.  I think these will be my go to for non-competitive games like dungeon crawlers and such.  Comfort is king for me.


----------



## tmaxx123

X7 works with my ps5 just as it did with ps4, as far as I can tell. I’m running it via hdmi to lg cx via optical to x7 and the wireless usb dongle for chat. audio is not available via hard wire usb.


----------



## UrsusMajor

tmaxx123 said:


> X7 works with my ps5 just as it did with ps4, as far as I can tell. I’m running it via hdmi to lg cx via optical to x7 and the wireless usb dongle for chat. audio is not available via hard wire usb.


So theres no surround sound via usb? Just stereo as it was on the PS4?


----------



## kellte2

UrsusMajor said:


> So theres no surround sound via usb? Just stereo as it was on the PS4?



the post above says that audio was not available via usb. Optical in will provide a signal, but definitely not Tempest. Very disappointing news.


----------



## stavros.m

kellte2 said:


> the post above says that audio was not available via usb. Optical in will provide a signal, but definitely not Tempest. Very disappointing news.


I will need to look for it but i think i saw a video review for the PS5 and he showed it working with usb audio and i believe he was using the Creative SoundBlaster G3


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll test it soon enough. The PS5 arrives today. I'll do quick and dirty confirmations for the G6, Modi, Hel, and Penrose.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll test it soon enough. The PS5 arrives today. I'll do quick and dirty confirmations for the G6, Modi, Hel, and Penrose.


And if you have time the Mobius lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll do much of this testing tomorrow since i won't have time today.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll do much of this testing tomorrow since i won't have time today.


Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah im just doing ps5 setup now, and I need sleep for work tonight. In a few hours.  😭


----------



## buylow (Nov 12, 2020)

Being in Australia I’ve had the ps5 for close to 24 hours. I tested my JDS Labs El DAC 2 which is UAC-2. Sadly it is not recognised . So unless it’s something I have specifically done, it looks like the ps5 is still only using UAC-1.

I also tested the mod mic wireless, which does work (like it did on PS4).


----------



## Rozzko

So if now PS5 has tempest audio that fork like VSS, we don’t need extra devise for VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2020)

Yeah it's something like that. Not sure I'd replace anything the X7/G6 SBX surround, or Dolby Headphone for it.

It's ok, but positional awareness for rear cues ain't anywhere near as good as anything I've recommended before.

I can definitely see myself getting shot from behind with this. The others make it painfully aware when someone is behind me.

Casually speaking, it's great. But I wouldn't do positionally important gaming with it. Just from short impressions with Warzone, Astro Playroom, save Killzone Shadow Fall.

Don't get me wrong, it DEFINITELY sounds best in Astro's Playroom because it was built with the engine in mind, save rear cues are audibly decent enough. But I'd still prefer using the other VSS solutions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2020)

Oh wait, OMG IT SOUNDS AMAZING with Movies!

Much better experience.


----------



## illram

Maybe with further software tweaking it will sound better. I heard there was a customization option similar to SX-Fi where you take pictures of your ears, or something?


----------



## UrsusMajor (Nov 12, 2020)

illram said:


> Maybe with further software tweaking it will sound better. I heard there was a customization option similar to SX-Fi where you take pictures of your ears, or something?


Mark Cerny stated that in the PS5 conference earlier this year, that they hope to offer personalised profiles via customers taking pictures of their ears. But for now the customisation appears limited to the pre-made profiles in the audio settings

 Really interesting talk, the 3D audio section begins around the 40minute mark. And around 51.25 mark specifically about their personalised audio goals


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Right now all it has is a sort of ear height setting. I set mine 1 step lower to number 4 which sounded the best to me. But they need a sort of ambience size adjustment setting. Right now its just too close to your head. Good for sound quality, bad for surround awareness.


----------



## Rozzko

And if I not wrong some games have special 3D sound in game. So developer when making game already do it witch special 3D and tempest audio on ps5. For example:
- Spider man and demons souls - they have this special 3D sound. And tempest audio make it better 
-other games not have special 3D sound, but tempest audio make sound in game like 3D


----------



## AppleheadMay

To get Atmos Headphones/DTS Headphone X out of my Xbox Series X and later Tempest 3D PS5 there's of course things like the LucidSound LS50X and Sony 3D Pulse.

But I'm thinking of connecting a portable amp to my controller to feed the HD800S.
I was thinking of iFi Audio Micro iCan SE or xCan since these seem to be pretty powerful, the SE more powerful I think.
Would you guys recommend one over the other or another powerful portable amp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

You don't need those headsets for the 3D audio. I assume that's not what you meant, but just want to reiterate this with everyone. Works fine on the Penrose, as well as whatever you plug to the controller.

Now when I get home in 2 hours I'll test the other stuff.

Also I know this is early, but holy smokes does the Penrose shine with the Tempest 3D audio. One impressive headphone/headset.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You don't need those headsets for the 3D audio. I assume that's not what you meant, but just want to reiterate this with everyone. Works fine on the Penrose, as well as whatever you plug to the controller.
> 
> Now when I get home in 2 hours I'll test the other stuff.
> 
> Also I know this is early, but holy smokes does the Penrose shine with the Tempest 3D audio. One impressive headphone/headset.




Hmm, damn. Penrose(X) will probably be better than Ls50X or 3D Pulse?

But yes I meant I'm looking for a good portable amp to connect to my controller so I can use other phones as well, like the LCD-X and HD800S.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Hmm, damn. Penrose(X) will probably be better than Ls50X or 3D Pulse?
> 
> But yes I meant I'm looking for a good portable amp to connect to my controller so I can use other phones as well, like the LCD-X and HD800S.


Maybe you won't have to. Apparently the G6 works. I'll let you know in just over an hour.

If the G6 works, that opens up dac amps that can attach to the G6 through optical or analog.


----------



## UrsusMajor

AppleheadMay said:


> Hmm, damn. Penrose(X) will probably be better than Ls50X or 3D Pulse?
> 
> But yes I meant I'm looking for a good portable amp to connect to my controller so I can use other phones as well, like the LCD-X and HD800S.


Would the G6 be able to drive the HD800s optimally?

Also does the LCD-X even require amping? I was under the impression they were sensitive and with low-impedance


----------



## AppleheadMay

UrsusMajor said:


> Would the G6 be able to drive the HD800s optimally?
> 
> Also does the LCD-X even require amping? I was under the impression they were sensitive and with low-impedance



Depends on what you mean with amping required or not, a HD899 produces sound straight from the controller, for some loud enough for others not but the SQ sucks and at max volume distortion occurs. Just tested it straight from the controller, then from the controller through a Jotunheim.

The LCD-X is easier to drive but being a full size planar it will benefit from some amping as well. I tried my Drop THX Panda from the controller and it does get l;oud enough but the sound through the Jot just was better.

I do wonder about those Penroses though. I find my Drop THX Panda used wireless with a PC for example, so using the internal amp, lacking power.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

UrsusMajor said:


> Would the G6 be able to drive the HD800s optimally?
> 
> Also does the LCD-X even require amping? I was under the impression they were sensitive and with low-impedance


Well, ideally you'd send the G6 signal to another dac or amp that's better equipped. But the G6 has a well known high output volume if anything.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, ideally you'd send the G6 signal to another dac or amp that's better equipped. But the G6 has a well known high output volume if anything.


So just to clarify, in order to utilise the PS5 3D audio, you must either connect headphones directly to dualsense, or connect via headphones into dac/amp, which is connected via optical to the display?

And just to confirm Tempest Audio and any other VSS does not work directly via USB from PS5?


----------



## deadchip12

UrsusMajor said:


> So just to clarify, in order to utilise the PS5 3D audio, you must either connect headphones directly to dualsense, or connect via headphones into dac/amp, which is connected via optical to the display?
> 
> And just to confirm Tempest Audio and any other VSS does not work directly via USB from PS5?


He's testing it and will report back in a few hours.


----------



## platypusnom

Popping my head in here as MLE's guide has been a great resource over the years. There's a thread on Era as well as a portion of ACG's review of the PS5 that confirms that UAC1 DACs work on PS5 (same as PS4) and UAC2 are still in the dark.


----------



## kellte2

platypusnom said:


> Popping my head in here as MLE's guide has been a great resource over the years. There's a thread on Era as well as a portion of ACG's review of the PS5 that confirms that UAC1 DACs work on PS5 (same as PS4) and UAC2 are still in the dark.



UAC2 doesn’t seem to work. My X7 just gives me a buzzing noise when I hook it up via USB. Everything still functions properly if I use optical out from my TV to connect to the X7, but I am then missing out in Tempest.
That said, DD5.1 via bitstream sounded very clean in Demons’ Souls, so I am very curious about how much I’m leaving on the table by losing out on Tempest. If it’s just another VSS solution, then I might just forget about it, yet I do have a Penrose on order. Even with hifi cans, there is something to be said about the convenience of wireless gaming headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

edited: to remove bad idea of using usb c to 3.5mm dongle for ps5. Don't do it


----------



## platypusnom

kellte2 said:


> UAC2 doesn’t seem to work. My X7 just gives me a buzzing noise when I hook it up via USB. Everything still functions properly if I use optical out from my TV to connect to the X7, but I am then missing out in Tempest.
> That said, DD5.1 via bitstream sounded very clean in Demons’ Souls, so I am very curious about how much I’m leaving on the table by losing out on Tempest. If it’s just another VSS solution, then I might just forget about it, yet I do have a Penrose on order. Even with hifi cans, there is something to be said about the convenience of wireless gaming headphones.


Sorry if I wasn't clear UAC2 does not work.


----------



## suspects

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have HUGE, AMAZING NEWS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dang that’s good news. So any dac/amp will work now?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

edit: nvm, this is not an ideal solution due to low power and noise.


----------



## suspects

So i assume something like the G6’s SFX (believe that is what their virtual surround is called) works perfectly right?


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> With this $10-15 cable, a 3.5mm male to RCA male cable (or if your amp has a 3.5mm input, any aux cable will do!)  to your amp, you won't need any dac!


Did you test the g6 via usb?


----------



## platypusnom

Not sure about linking out to other places (new here) but was confirmation the G6 works, hopefully MLE can confirm that as well


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

deadchip12 said:


> Did you test the g6 via usb?





Just tested. Works perfectly! 3D Audio is a go!

As for SBX, I don't think you'll wanna use that, because I believe this is picked up as a 2 channel device, so I wouldn't recommend using SBX.

Sorry for the delay in testing! I had to do some updates.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have HUGE, AMAZING NEWS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, would that work on an Xbox as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Damn, would that work on an Xbox as well?


I can't verify, since I won't have an Xbox.


----------



## platypusnom

I need to get a new setup as my PS4 was reliant on optical. Looking at a Mayflower Arc Mk2 vs a G6 any opinions?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Xonar U3 works! Picked up as USB Headset (USB Advanced Audio Device).

The PS5 is making use of our gear easy!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can't verify, since I won't have an Xbox.



I'd want to verify but Xbox uses USB-A ports. I can't seem to find such an adapter.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Bad news about the usb c to 3.5mm dongle.

It was ok with the PortaPro, but it doesn't provide enough juice for anything even moderately demanding even through the Magni 3. Not enough volume, and a lot of static.


So right now, the G6 is most ideal. Perhaps an amp to the G6 for best solution atm.


Edit: Schiit Hel and Schiit Modi 3 do not work, unfortunately.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just tested. Works perfectly! 3D Audio is a go!
> 
> As for SBX, I don't think you'll wanna use that, because I believe this is picked up as a 2 channel device, so I wouldn't recommend using SBX.
> 
> Sorry for the delay in testing! I had to do some updates.


Fantastic. Thanks a lot.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Bad news about the usb c to 3.5mm dongle.
> 
> It was ok with the PortaPro, but it doesn't provide enough juice for anything even moderately demanding even through the Magni 3. Not enough volume, and a lot of static.
> 
> ...




Damn, would have been a nice solution.

Any subjective opinion on Penrose (X) vs LucidSound LS50X and PS Pulse 3D based on past experiences with the brands MLE?
Do you know LucidSound?


----------



## kellte2

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just tested. Works perfectly! 3D Audio is a go!


This is great Intel. Thanks.

Now I have some thinking to do. Sell the X7 and replace with G6 so I can used my Ether C Flows or Penrose. 🤔


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Ok, to sum up:


PS5 solutions for now.

1. Penrose is amazing for ps5
2. USB C to 3.5mm dongle works, but too much static and not enough juice even with amp desktop amp attached.
3. Asus Xonar U3 works. Decent for easy to drive headphones like the PortaPro. Can attach dac or amp for more power, still not ideal for anything that is harder to drive.
4. Schiit Hel and Schiit Modi 3 usb functions do NOT work. Hel can be used in amp mode for the U3 or G6 but not powerful enough.
5. Creative G6 works well but needs to be high gain, and maxed out to get moderate volume for something like a 6XX. Ideally, you WILL need a desktop amp for the G6 of at least Magni 3 level or MORE.
6. Best solution I have atm is Creative G6 - optical out - optical input of a DAC like the Modi 3 to Magni 3 in high gain at 3 o clock on the volume knob. Nearly maxed out, so not much headroom.

Asgard 3 or Lyr 3 are sounding like really good ideas for amps to use with the PS5.

At leastil until and IF/WHEN Sony decides to update the ps5 to allow 3D audio to be piped through the HDMI out, then compatibility will rise exponentially.


----------



## AppleheadMay

kellte2 said:


> This is great Intel. Thanks.
> 
> Now I have some thinking to do. Sell the X7 and replace with G6 so I can used my Ether C Flows or Penrose. 🤔



Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?




Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok, to sum up:
> 
> 
> PS5 solutions for now.
> ...



6 is a nice solution indeed, it's what i do with my PC: G6 optical out - Bifrost - Jotunheim. Ample juice for anything.

But what I tried with the Xbox worked fine as well: VSS from Xbox via controller out to RCA input of the Jotunheim.
Which is why I'm thinking of getting a portable amp, now I need a 3 to 4m cable from my seat to the Jot and the same length for my phones back.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Oh, if you're fine piping audio from the controller to your gear, then ANYHTING will work. I was just trying to find gear that wouldn't have to be attached to the controller.

Controller to headphone amp will work fine enough if you're ok with that.


----------



## kellte2 (Nov 13, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Why would you need a G6 to use the Penrose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We have similar gear. I currently use the X7 via optical and line out to a Jotunheim which drives the Ether C Flows. I suppose I could go the g6 route, but it feels like then I’d be potentially double DAC’ing (ps5 to g6 via usb to X7 via digital line out to Jotunheim via RCA line out. X7). even with upgraded op-amps, feels redundant in this scenario.

Alternatively, I could just get the Penrose and go wireless.

The million dollar question remains: how good is Tempest, and is it so much better than SBX that it would be worth downgrading my DAC (x7 with sparkos op-amps to g6)?

This has all been very helpful. Eager to hear more impressions.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok, to sum up:
> 
> 
> PS5 solutions for now.
> ...


Hmm any idea why we need to max out on the g6? Will it be better for easier to drive pairs?


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy @kellte2 

I'm more or less fine with a cable from my controller. 
Let me explain: I now tried with a tougher cable from the controller to the amp just to test the SQ. That cable was indeed a pain.
But I would have Matt from FAW make a thin cotton sleeved cable from his normal copper series, not that expensive.
It's the same cable type I use for my Drop Panda to the controller and it doesn't get in the way for me.

But on the other hand a wireless Panda has me intrigued ... if it's really that good.
I agree wireless is much more convenient of course.
Too bad they're not available yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

kellte2 said:


> We have similar gear. I currently use the X7 via optical and line out to a Jotunheim which drives the Ether C Flows. I suppose I could go the g6 route, but it feels like then I’d be potentially double DAC’ing (ps5 to g6 via usb to X7 via digital line out to Jotunheim via RCA line out. X7). even with upgraded op-amps, feels redundant in this scenario.
> 
> Alternatively, I could just get the Penrose and go wireless.
> 
> ...



You can use the G6 as the DAC, and use an Amp with it. No need to attach a dac to the G6. I attached the Modi because it got me a little more volume.

As for Tempest vs things like the SBX... give me a moment, I will try and explain ass great as I can about what's better and what's worse....

@kellte2

Ok so Sony's Tempest 3D audio:

This best way I can explain is:

You have a headphone. You all are used to how your headphone sounds, right?

Well, think of Tempest as being exactly like how your headphones sounds in stereo, but adding a layer of dimensionality. It still sounds like your headphones, but with more space next to your head. More directionality, so instead of just left/right with subtle front and back imaging, the effect is more surround-ish, but still within a heaphone's "headspace"

You know how there are people that HAAAAAATE virtual surround because to them it sounds 'fake', 'processed', or 'too much reverb'? Well, Tempest audio will satisfy them because it does not change the inherent sound of the headphones used. It's the least amount of changes to a headphone that I've heard to date, while adding some surround immersion without it sounding like literally anything else we've been accustomed to.

Basically, it's your headphones but with a nice dimentional effect that works incredibly well, and is truly immersive.

Do I like it? I love it. Will it replace SBX, GSX, Dolby Headphone, Atmos, Waves NX? No. Why?

The answer is because each of those is meant to turn your headphones into a virtual set of speakers in a virtual room. No longer do headphones sound like headphones with our well known and tested VSS solutions. They're headphones that have been TRANSFORMED to virtual speakers. This is something haters do not understand. You're not meant to compare your headphones to how your headphones sound with VSS. Why? Because it no longer has a headphone's sound.

So why won't it replace the VSS solutions?

Because VSS like SBX and Waves, etc, has much more dimensionality, space, and stage to place objects in front, behind and around us. You can easily tell when something is behind you, because you can imagine it's a few feet behind you.

Sony's Tempest 3D Audio can't compete with that level of spaciousness and size. It is restricted to a headphone's general headspace. So rear sound cues sound like they're next to your ears as opposed to VSS placing rear sound cues a few feet behind you.

So there's the difference. Tempest allows headphones retain their sound with more dimensionality, while VSS transforms your headphones to virtual speakers that no longer sound like headphones. Two VERY different outcomes.

Tempest = headphone audio with some surround
VSS = virtual speakers in a virtual room

Tempest =/= VSS


----------



## Radio81

G5 should also be an option.  That was only stereo on PS4 but it should make for a decent headset amp for the PS5 now that the surround is processed at the system level .  On low gain, I get similar volume level between the G5 and Magni 3.  I don't have anything that would need high gain.  All of my gear is 50ohm or less.  I think the noise floor is a little lower on the Magni though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Radio81 said:


> G5 should also be an option.  That was only stereo on PS4 but it should make for a decent headset amp for the PS5 now that the surround is processed at the system level .  On low gain, I get similar volume level between the G5 and Magni 3.  I don't have anything that would need high gain.  All of my gear is 50ohm or less.  I think the noise floor is a little lower on the Magni though.


low ohm =/= easy to drive.

There are 20-ish ohm headphones that needs vastly more power than 600ohm headphones. Correlation some times, but causation, absolutely not.

To get a nice volume out of the 6XX, I needed to max out the G6 volume. If you think that's enough, well, I dunno what to tell you. Literally no headroom. So I'd definitely be cautious about what gear you have. You may find a G6 alone to not be enough.

I'd practice caution. Yes, easier to drive headphones should be fine for the G6 (and maybe the G5). But if you own multiple headphones, make sure they're not hard to drive.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @kellte2
> 
> Ok so Sony's Tempest 3D audio:
> 
> ...


1. In what games you trying tempest? I told before that some games has better 3D sound,
And give more quality VSS with tempest technology. Try demons souls and spider man morales, the have it’s more cool 3D sound
2. What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> 1. In what games you trying tempest? I told before that some games has better 3D sound,
> And give more quality VSS with tempest technology. Try demons souls and spider man morales, the have it’s more cool 3D sound
> 2. What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?


Better 3D audio is fine, but it's still limited to a headphone headspace. VSS transforms to something else entirely.

3D audio may have vertical cues, which VSS does not. But in terms of rear audio legibility, I'd take VSS any time.

I've tried Black Ops Cold War and Astro's Playroom, so far. Both have it. Like I said, I really love it, but it wouldn't replace VSS for me.

It's different, and GREAT. But better? I'd argue not.

I'd get killed by people behind me much more with Tempest, than with VSS.

But I'd wager most general consumers WILL prefer Tempest. Because it affects a headphone's sound quality much less. With VSS you sacrifice quality for the benefit of surround speaker-like audio.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just tested. Works perfectly! 3D Audio is a go!
> 
> As for SBX, I don't think you'll wanna use that, because I believe this is picked up as a 2 channel device, so I wouldn't recommend using SBX.
> 
> Sorry for the delay in testing! I had to do some updates.


So I take it the ideal setup is: PS5 -> G6 via USB. Then G6 -> headphones via 3.5mm if easy-to-drive. If using difficult-to-drive cans you would then go G6 -> Amp via optical, and then Amp -> headphones?

But this is just for Tempest, is there a way to disable Tempest so that you can utilise traditional SBX 5.1/7.1 on the PS5?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Not amp via optical. Amp via analog out (the G6 optical and analog out are in the same output, confusingly enough). Just trying to be technically correct. Optical is digital, so if you wanna use optical out from the G6, you'll need a dac like the Modi 3 with an optical in. I don't think it's necessary though. Just G6 - analog out - amp. Just make sure it's a powerful amp. Even a Hel's amp section didn't change output volume noticeably. So I personally recommend at LEAST a Magni 3 Heresy or Magni 3+ level of power output and gain.



UrsusMajor said:


> But this is just for Tempest, is there a way to disable Tempest so that you can utilise traditional SBX 5.1/7.1 on the PS5?




Yes, you can.

Set the Ps5 to output sound as Bitstream Dolby, and send autio through the HDMI to the TV or HDMI splitter that has an optical out (and passthrough dolby digital).

So Ps5 hdmi to TV, then TV's optical out to your gaming amp/dac that has virtual surround.

For me, that would be the Mixamp 5.8 which I have connetced to my TV's optical out. The Mixamp 5.8 has Dolby Headphone which I use. It also has an optical passthrough which I can send to the G6 if I wanna use SBX.


----------



## stavros.m (Nov 13, 2020)

@Mad Lust Envy when you have a chance can you connect the Mobius into the PS5 USB to see if tempest works or in the controller. I guess the controller would be more convenient 

thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh shoot, I forgot about the Mobius. I'll do it right now! I'm sorry! I got caught up in all the other stuff!


----------



## UrsusMajor

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Not amp via optical. Amp via analog out (the G6 optical and analog out are in the same output, confusingly enough). Just trying to be technically correct. Optical is digital, so if you wanna use optical out from the G6, you'll need a dac like the Modi 3 with an optical in. I don't think it's necessary though. Just G6 - analog out - amp. Just make sure it's a powerful amp. Even a Hel's amp section didn't change output volume noticeably. So I personally recommend at LEAST a Magni 3 Heresy or Magni 3+ level of power output and gain.


Oh thank you for clarifying, that's immensely helpful. I do have a magni 3. So if analog, I'd need to connect via RCA? (G6 optical out -> Magni 3 via rca cables)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

@stavros.m 

Sorry, the Mobius is picked up only as a Microphone device. So it doesn't work.




UrsusMajor said:


> Oh thank you for clarifying, that's immensely helpful. I do have a magni 3. So if analog, I'd need to connect via RCA? (G6 optical out -> Magni 3 via rca cables)



Yup, just get a 3.5mm male to RCA male audio cable. 3.5mm to the G6's analog output on the rear, to the Magni 3's audio input.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @stavros.m
> 
> Sorry, the Mobius is picked up only as a Microphone device. So it doesn't work.
> 
> ...



Thank you so Penrose it is then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Penrose is great. You won't be disappointed. Lag free, inaudible noise floor, great immersion, spacious sound, and omg a treat with Tempest audio.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Penrose is great. You won't be disappointed. Lag free, inaudible noise floor, great immersion, spacious sound, and omg a treat with Tempest audio.



You're terrible, you just made me click the buy button on Amazon I tried to avoid all day.  ;P


----------



## Lay.

Can't wait to test PS5 Tempest audio with my G6 usb -> HDV 820 -> HD800S


----------



## kellte2

Lay. said:


> Can't wait to test PS5 Tempest audio with my G6 usb -> HDV 820 -> HD800S


Looking forward to these impressions.


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Penrose is great. You won't be disappointed. Lag free, inaudible noise floor, great immersion, spacious sound, and omg a treat with Tempest audio.


Do you like the Penrose better than the PC38x for PS5?
I own the x2’s and I think I’m digging the pc38x a little more, and I recall the Mobius maybe sounding better than the x2’s but it’s been a while


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> You're terrible, you just made me click the buy button on Amazon I tried to avoid all day.  ;P


I'm sorry! I mean its exciting! Lol


Hmm, in general if I have to make a choice I'll always go for open wired headphones for maximum versatility and comfort. But I REALLY like the Penrose, so really it depends on whether you want the extra immersion of the Penrose and wireless, or something more traditional in the PC38X. They're different enough not to step on each other's toes.


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm sorry! I mean its exciting! Lol
> 
> 
> Hmm, in general if I have to make a choice I'll always go for open wired headphones for maximum versatility and comfort. But I REALLY like the Penrose, so really it depends on whether you want the extra immersion of the Penrose and wireless, or something more traditional in the PC38X. They're different enough not to step on each other's toes.


Thinking about picking up the Penrose then to test them out. What I love about the PC38x (and the x2's) are the soundstage and bass - they both are really fun. How do the Penrose differ in the sound signature?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm sorry! I mean its exciting! Lol
> 
> 
> Hmm, in general if I have to make a choice I'll always go for open wired headphones for maximum versatility and comfort. But I REALLY like the Penrose, so really it depends on whether you want the extra immersion of the Penrose and wireless, or something more traditional in the PC38X. They're different enough not to step on each other's toes.




Yeah but you had me at "great immersion and spacious sound". 
For me immersion is more important than accuracy and of course for gaming space is needed.
So I ordered the Penrose.  

But I do have other options on hand like the LCD-GX and Panda I can connect straight to the controller or via the Jot or the HD800s with the Jot.
I see no reason why I couldn't use my top music cans for gaming as well.


----------



## kellte2

AppleheadMay said:


> I see no reason why I couldn't use my top music cans for gaming as well.



Amen.


----------



## platypusnom

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can use the G6 as the DAC, and use an Amp with it. No need to attach a dac to the G6. I attached the Modi because it got me a little more volume.
> 
> As for Tempest vs things like the SBX... give me a moment, I will try and explain ass great as I can about what's better and what's worse....
> 
> ...



This summarizes really well something that I couldn't put a finger on when playing some FPS titles yesterday on PS5. After using VSS for years at this point I was finding it much harder to pinpoint the directionality of what I was hearing.


----------



## jessjj

AppleheadMay said:


> You're terrible, you just made me click the buy button on Amazon I tried to avoid all day.  ;P


Were you able to get the Penrose on Amazon? I'm only seeing them on their site


----------



## UrsusMajor (Nov 13, 2020)

platypusnom said:


> This summarizes really well something that I couldn't put a finger on when playing some FPS titles yesterday on PS5. After using VSS for years at this point I was finding it much harder to pinpoint the directionality of what I was hearing.


On the whole then, in the future when Sony rolls out its personalisation with users sending pictures of their ears, it's unlikely it'll be able to compete with Creative's SXFI or indeed the A16 Realiser. As it's being described as sort of stereo with some surround


----------



## Radio81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> low ohm =/= easy to drive.
> 
> There are 20-ish ohm headphones that needs vastly more power than 600ohm headphones. Correlation some times, but causation, absolutely not.
> 
> ...


 
I was simply stating my headphones and headsets are under 50ohm & easy to drive.  Simple as that.


----------



## Lambduh (Nov 13, 2020)

Hey, all!

Wanted to put my two cents in; I have a JDS Labs Element 1st gen.

The PS5 *does* recognize it and it shows up as USB headphones. It allows me to select 3D audio and pick the "level" and everything.

However, no audio is output *at all* to it. Really freakin' weird. I expected it to work or not be recognized at all, not to be recognized but not work.

Right there with envy that I wish we could output "headphone" audio via hdmi.

Also, shoutout to envy; I saw you in Maximilian's stream a week or so ago!

Edit: plugged my Element back into my PC (last used it 3 days ago) and it seems to have actually just kicked the bucket. The USB port has been loose for quite some time and I guess I just jostled it enough between using it on my PC and hooking it up to my PS5 that it had enough.


----------



## AppleheadMay

The LCD-GX was louder than the Panda straight from the Xbox controller.
The controller must have pretty high gain.
It also sounded better than the Panda but that has probably more to do with being tuned for gaming vs. the Panda trying to be neutral.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Better 3D audio is fine, but it's still limited to a headphone headspace. VSS transforms to something else entirely.
> 
> 3D audio may have vertical cues, which VSS does not. But in terms of rear audio legibility, I'd take VSS any time.
> 
> ...


Thanks !
And what about it? Can you please try it?
“What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?”



Mad Lust Envy said:


> @stavros.m
> 
> Sorry, the Mobius is picked up only as a Microphone device. So it doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Mobius bont work via usb? Omg! And what about new audeze Penrose? It’s work via usb connection by wireless?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2020)

Guys, I have to say manage your expectations when using things like the G6 for the PS5. REMEMBER that the source volume is SUPER low, and you're brute forcing getting a decent volume with an amp. It's far from line level, so expect dynamics to possibly be a bit lower than on a decent source with a moderate line livel output. I haven't tested it enough to say its anything close to ideal in terms of sound quality.

Until Sony allows 3D audio through hdmi, this is just a workaround to get our gear working. I'll test out controller volume output with an amp to see just how much level you can get in that method.





Lambduh said:


> Hey, all!
> 
> Wanted to put my two cents in; I have a JDS Labs Element 1st gen.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I frequent Max's channel. It's hard getting through to him in terms of audio though. 🤣 My voice in a literal sea of thousands of comments. He does tend to see my comments from time to time. I tried helping him with the PS5 3D audio but it didn't quite reach him.

Sorry about the Element dying on you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> Thanks !
> And what about it? Can you please try it?
> “What’s about amp from dual sense? Amp power = DualShock 4? Or maybe dual sense has better amp for 3,5 jack for low ohm headphones?”
> 
> ...


I'll test out the controller output and with an amp when I get home from work in 8-ish hours.

The Penrose works perfectly with the PS5. I mean it's supposed to lol. It was designed for the PS5.


----------



## Rozzko

Is there a headphone amplifier in the world that you can simply plug into a 3.5 jack? I'm talking about plugging such a teacher directly into the PS5 joystick into the 3.5 connector


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 14, 2020)

You can plug any amplifier to any headphone jack. However, a headphone jack is already pre-amplified, so adding another amplifier is detrimental to sound quality, and should mainly be done only as last resorts when there's no other option.

Why is it detrimental? Because whatever imperfections the headphone jack has (like potential noise, hiss, distortion, etc), is then amplified by your amp. This is why you typically want to avoid connecting amps to headphone jacks. Not sure how well performing the controller's internal amp is. 

Plenty of amps that instead of rca inputs use 3.5mm inputs, like the G6.

If it were ideal, we wouldn't be having this conversation about trying to find a method with the ps5 that DOESN'T include connecting to the controller jack.

If you're referring to using an amplifier that doesn't need any other cable but JUST a cable to the headphone jack, there's plenty of internal battery powered portable amps. The old Fiio E12 literally on the first page of this guide is one of them.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Nov 14, 2020)

Any headphone amp indeed, desktop or portable or full size.
You don't even need a 3,5mm input, you can use a 3,5mm to RCA cable available anywhere.
Usually, best practice would be to max out the power on the first amp (the controller) and then use the volume control on the second amp.


----------



## UrsusMajor (Nov 14, 2020)

Edit


----------



## AppleheadMay

What we need are HDMI 2.1 splitters ...


----------



## Alexnova

Hey MLE just stopping by to say thank you for all your hard work over the years to keeping this guide updated. Appreciate your thorough reviews as well. Cheers.


----------



## UrsusMajor

AppleheadMay said:


> What we need are HDMI 2.1 splitters ...


But unfortunately there'd still be no SXFi, as the SBX3 has no optical in


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Alexnova said:


> Hey MLE just stopping by to say thank you for all your hard work over the years to keeping this guide updated. Appreciate your thorough reviews as well. Cheers.


Ah that's really nice to hear, thank you so much! ✌


----------



## danterikxx

AppleheadMay said:


> What we need are HDMI 2.1 splitters ...



Or regular HDMI splitters if you have a 1080p TV/ dont need 4k120


----------



## platypusnom

So after doing a bunch of reading of the comments / resources in this thread (thanks MLE!) I think I have a bit of predicament as I want to utilize VSS.

If I follow correctly to get VSS on PS5 I'd want to disable Tempest and essentially follow what was stated in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...iman-he-5xx-review-added.534479/post-15973941.

Given that I use a monitor for gaming I'd have to use an HDMI splitter to get that optical in to whatever VSS solution I want to use. Am I off in any of this? Unless a 2.1 splitter appears in the future this would be limiting in terms of support 4k120 but this would be sufficient for the short term at least.


----------



## UrsusMajor

platypusnom said:


> So after doing a bunch of reading of the comments / resources in this thread (thanks MLE!) I think I have a bit of predicament as I want to utilize VSS.
> 
> If I follow correctly to get VSS on PS5 I'd want to disable Tempest and essentially follow what was stated in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...iman-he-5xx-review-added.534479/post-15973941.
> 
> Given that I use a monitor for gaming I'd have to use an HDMI splitter to get that optical in to whatever VSS solution I want to use. Am I off in any of this? Unless a 2.1 splitter appears in the future this would be limiting in terms of support 4k120 but this would be sufficient for the short term at least.


Ahh I stupidly missed MLE's response at the bottom there about using VSS via HDMI
So appears USB for Tempest only and HDMI for legacy VSS

Thanks for doing all this MLE, massively appreciated - you are the best


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 14, 2020)

platypusnom said:


> So after doing a bunch of reading of the comments / resources in this thread (thanks MLE!) I think I have a bit of predicament as I want to utilize VSS.
> 
> If I follow correctly to get VSS on PS5 I'd want to disable Tempest and essentially follow what was stated in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...iman-he-5xx-review-added.534479/post-15973941.
> 
> Given that I use a monitor for gaming I'd have to use an HDMI splitter to get that optical in to whatever VSS solution I want to use. Am I off in any of this? Unless a 2.1 splitter appears in the future this would be limiting in terms of support 4k120 but this would be sufficient for the short term at least.


I'm currently playing through Black Ops, and I'd say, don't write off Tempest. It's REALLY good. You may find that you don't need VSS.

Also you don't need a splitter if you're TV supports dolby digital through an optical out. If so, you set the ps5 main audio to be Bitstream Dolby. Then attach a DAC with an optical input and some VSS. Like the X7, G6, Mixamp, etc.


----------



## platypusnom

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm currently playing through Black Ops, and I'd say, don't write off Tempest. It's REALLY good. You may find that you don't need VSS.
> 
> Also you don't need a splitter if you're TV supports dolby digital through an optical out. If so, you set the ps5 main audio to be Bitstream Dolby. Then attach a DAC with an optical input and some VSS. Like the X7, G6, Mixamp, etc.


Alas I use a monitor for gaming. For someone who is super used to VSS how does the Penrose stack up in your eyes with Tempest?


----------



## UrsusMajor

I'm tempted to get the Penrose. But seeing as I'm indifferent about the wireless convenience, is it even worth it?
I already have the Fidelio X2, HD598 and K712 on hand, which I'm sure will sound as good if not better than the Penrose. Maybe I should save the money and upgrade to the HD800s.

Cannot test those mid-range headphones with Tempest until I get my hands on the PS5 this Thursday


----------



## mindbomb

From the descriptions I'm reading, it may be that sony expects the games themselves to have more reverb, and that's why the 3d audio headphones option is seeming a little lackluster. Other than that, the audio itself needs to have high frequencies in them for the best results, and sometimes it gets lost due to other effects or too much compression to save space.


----------



## Avean

UrsusMajor said:


> I'm tempted to get the Penrose. But seeing as I'm indifferent about the wireless convenience, is it even worth it?
> I already have the Fidelio X2, HD598 and K712 on hand, which I'm sure will sound as good if not better than the Penrose. Maybe I should save the money and upgrade to the HD800s.
> 
> Cannot test those mid-range headphones with Tempest until I get my hands on the PS5 this Thursday



I think its better to go for really comfortable high-end headphones. The problem with gaming headsets they usually are closed back which mean its not going to be comfortable in the long run. For gaming i prefer open back for comfort and that wider soundstage. + the mic sounds not good from the samples of Penrose. You have so many options here like ModMic 5 that is wireless so you can attach it to a HD800S if you wanted.


----------



## kadinh (Nov 14, 2020)

I was playing Apex Legends last night on PS5. I changed the sound setting on my LG CX tv to output sound via optical, put the optical to the Topping D50s -> L30 -> Arya. I had to turn the DAC to 0.00db and when i put the amp to 0.00db, it was just loud enough. I had to kick on the +6db on the amp to get a volume I enjoyed.

PS5 -> USB -> Topping D50s did NOT work.

I’m going to try the E30 later today to see if the results are different. I have not tried PS5 controller -> 3.5mm headphones or PS5 controller -> USB-C to USB-A adapter -> USB to Topping D50s/E30.......yet. Will report back.

I also have the LCD-X, Sundara, and HD660S that I can try via the controller if anyone interested. I’m also really interested in checking out the Penrose since I enjoyed the Mobius and would love to try out Tempest.


----------



## AppleheadMay

danterikxx said:


> Or regular HDMI splitters if you have a 1080p TV/ dont need 4k120



That's just the problem, I have an Xbox Series X and an RTX3090 here and a PS5 incoming.
All is connected to LG CX series, so I strongly prefer 4k 120.
The HDMI splitter I'd need for splitting to the Realiser I've been waiting for for over 4 years now.


----------



## kadinh (Nov 15, 2020)

E30 to L30 seemed to produce more volume, I had to turn the DAC to around -25db to be at a comfortable level.

USB from PS5 to E30 did not work, had to use optical from TV.

Arya to controller (XLR to 3.5mm) sounded a little quiet, LCD-X was a little louder, Sundara sounded the loudest. Going to the 3D setting where you hear the water flowing sounded like it was higher and lower vertically when changing the setting, so Tempest is working through the controller with all the adapters. Only downside is that you have all these adapters hanging down from the bottom of your controller.

I’m guessing Apex is not utilizing Tempest, I couldn’t tell a difference between controller and DAC except for audio volume.


----------



## AppleheadMay

kadinh said:


> E30 to L30 seemed to produce more volume, I had to turn the DAC to around -25db to be at a comfortable level.
> 
> USB from PS5 to E30 did not work, had to use optical from TV.
> 
> ...



I'll use a portable amp between controller and phones: better quality amplification, no adapters hanging from the controller (ordered a soft cotton wrapped cable), easier to control volume on the fly with a knob than in the menus of your console.
I already tested the setup with my desktop amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 15, 2020)

Testing more of the PS5. Controller, G6, and Hel as amp only.

G6 as dac AND amp works well for easy to drive headphones. Not much headroom.

G6 to an amp provides more volume than controller audio out to amp. Still recommend easier to drive headphones.

Controller to amp will work in a pinch, but isn't ideal.

I recommend easier to drive headphones, period.


Using the 6XX as the testing headphone, G6 basically needed to be high gain and maxed out volume for good volume output.

Controller out to 6XX, was way too quiet.

Controller to amp was enough for 6XX.

G6 to amp has some headroom for 6XX, but not a bunch.

Also, because you're near maxing out amplifiers, ALWAYS lower the volume drastically before turning the amp on/off, and removing/attaching headphones or any cable from your amps. If you forget,  you can end up blowing your drivers due to extremely high output on your amp, which can cause potential pops when attaching/detaching cables.

As it stands, PS5 just isn't very headphone-centric audiophile friendly due to very low output from anything that isn't its hdmi out.


----------



## AppleheadMay

For the controller or controller to amp options, the same applies for the new Xbox.
G6 isn’t recognized by the Xbox though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's worth mentioning that that G6 is pretty versatile with the ps5 because you can also just attach an optical cable to it say the same time, so if you, for example set the ps5 to hdmi out (remember, Bitstream Dolby on ps5 sound settings) and then hook up an optical out from TV to G6, you can have both optical source and usb source from PS5. This way you can swap between them, and use SBX when optical, and Tempest 3D when usb from ps5.

AGAIN REMEMBER, LOWER VOLUME WHEN CHANGING SOURCE. Optical output will be normal and loud, so if you set your volume for usb and then switch to the optical source, you'll blow your drivers if you don't lower volume beforehand.

If you blow your drivers, don't say I didn't warn you.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Optical from TV is also possible into a DAC/Amp but with my TV (LG OLED CX/GX series) you won't get formats like Atmos if the game provides it, the optical output "downsamples" to DD. Only HDMI can go up to Atmos/True HD. 
Only mentioning it since the LG CX/GX series might be a screen more people could be looking into for use with the newest consoles or RTX 30 series cards.

For an Xbox, as formats like Windows Sonic, Atmos for headphones or DTS headphone X are passed through fine via HDMI to TV optical as they use stereo channels anyway. 
I suspect Tempest audio from the PS5 is no different. Will have mine on Thursday (launch day here in Europe).
That way one could have the same sound (effects) as one gets from the controller but with better SQ and no double amping.


----------



## kadinh

AppleheadMay said:


> I'll use a portable amp between controller and phones: better quality amplification, no adapters hanging from the controller (ordered a soft cotton wrapped cable), easier to control volume on the fly with a knob than in the menus of your console.
> I already tested the setup with my desktop amp.


I have a hip DAC that I can try that with to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 16, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> Optical from TV is also possible into a DAC/Amp but with my TV (LG OLED CX/GX series) you won't get formats like Atmos if the game provides it, the optical output "downsamples" to DD. Only HDMI can go up to Atmos/True HD.
> Only mentioning it since the LG CX/GX series might be a screen more people could be looking into for use with the newest consoles or RTX 30 series cards.
> 
> For an Xbox, as formats like Windows Sonic, Atmos for headphones or DTS headphone X are passed through fine via HDMI to TV optical as they use stereo channels anyway.
> ...


Yeah Tempest is already output in stereo. I mean that's how the controller would be able to send Tempest to headphones lol.

Everyone can consider Tempest 3D audio to be similar to standard VSS solutions in practice.

Just waiting for Sony to update the ps5 to send 3D audio through the hdmi, so we won't need to attach a dac directly to the console or the controller jack.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As it stands, PS5 just isn't very headphone-centric audiophile friendly due to very low output from anything that isn't its hdmi out.



Did you test PS5 -> USB -> G6 -> Optical out -> DAC/AMP -> Headphones?


----------



## slayer6288

@Mad Lust Envy what % do you use for SBX on ur G6 out of curiosity?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 16, 2020)

Lay. said:


> Did you test PS5 -> USB -> G6 -> Optical out -> DAC/AMP -> Headphones?



Yeah, the first day. It's incrementally louder than G6 to amp alone. I was already using optical to my Modi 3 and Magni 3 for my PC, which is why I opted to just do G6 to Hel instead, since I wasn't using the Hel's analog input for anything else.




slayer6288 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy what % do you use for SBX on ur G6 out of curiosity?



I like SBX at 100%. It's the only vss I like maxed out. Others like Dolby Headphone, GSX, Waves, etc, I like halfway or so. So whatever their middle settings are. Though the Mobius I like at around 40% max.

To reiterate, you don't want to use SBX when using Tempest 3D audio on the PS5 through usb audio. Use SBX when taking audio from the HDMI out of the PS5 (since you can't get Tempest 3D audio from HDMI out).


----------



## ArchDash (Nov 16, 2020)

Hello everyone!

First of all thank you for the guide, I cannot imagine the effort and time you had to put on all of this. Definetly the best gaming audio guide I have came accross.
That said, I wanted a recommendation because I am a bit on the fence regarding my next gaming headset/headphone. I plan on expending* 200-250 Eur MAX*.

Priorities:
1. *Usage*: PC Gaming (a bit of everything, but specially MMOs, so great *inmersion *would be appreciated), daily use and music.
2.* Closed back preferably*, but open to consider open back if the quality is way better.
3. I *don't mind being wireless or not*. In cases like penrose is a good plus.
4. Don't want to wait* no more than 3 weeks from now*. Pref to get them by black friday or so.
5. *Confort*: for long hours of usage.


My main options are:

- *Audece Penrose*: Seems really good. Anyways if a wired version performs better than the penrose for lower price I would be interested. Drawback is the wait time.
-* HD 6XX*: Another great one. Overall seems really nice, despite not big fan of open backs (prefer a BIT of  isolation at sound cost). Drawback would be it seems to be hard to get in EU as well, and inmersion might not be the best.
- *Beyerdynamic MMX300 2nd gen*: A bit out of my bugdet, but if in black friday gets below 250 would be a candidate. No idea how are in comparison with the rest of the list quality wise.
- *HyperX Cloud Orbit*: The most probable candidate. A cheaper mobius with crap software (for what I have read) and really good inmersion. It will definetly get on a good spot with the black friday discounts. If it gets anywhere 200 I would probably get this.

So these are my options. I have the feeling I would probably end up getting the HyperX Orbit. Which would you guys choose? If its not in the list please feel free to recommend it!


----------



## AppleheadMay

I’d wait and see if you can get a BF deal on the Mobius or find one used from a good source.
I’d certainly prefer an Audeze over a headset from a gaming brand.
And assuming you’re going to use a PC it would give you an extra VSS option that the Penrose doesn’t.

I am more a fan of immersion than accurate pinpointing as well and that’s what planar drivers from Audeze will deliver in spades.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, the first day. It's incrementally louder than G6 to amp alone. I was already using optical to my Modi 3 and Magni 3 for my PC, which is why I opted to just do G6 to Hel instead, since I wasn't using the Hel's analog input for anything else.



With PS4 I use G6 EQ -7dB to make the sound quiet enough with my HDV820 at 9 o'clock. Any headphone and 11 o'clock is my max limit with HDV820. I might have some hope with PS5.


----------



## ArchDash (Nov 16, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> I’d wait and see if you can get a BF deal on the Mobius or find one used from a good source.
> I’d certainly prefer an Audeze over a headset from a gaming brand.
> And assuming you’re going to use a PC it would give you an extra VSS option that the Penrose doesn’t.
> 
> I am more a fan of immersion than accurate pinpointing as well and that’s what planar drivers from Audeze will deliver in spades.



As far as I know, the Penrose is identical to the Mobius, with exception of the removal of the headtracking tech (which for me seems useless). Sound-wise should be the same. Doesn't the penrose include surround sound? I believed this was produced by the computer software instead of the headphones.

The main drawback of the Mobius for me seems the added price of the 3d tracking, as well as wireless, which is not really that important for me as it is for PC usage mostly. These together set the price of the mobius to 400 EUR, down to 300 in BF at best, which is still way off my budget.

Regarding the HyperX, I felt the same as you, but supposedly, they are made entirely by Audeze, with only some minor specs from HyperX. For what I have read they can be even more confortable, while retaining the mobius sound quality


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 16, 2020)

ArchDash said:


> As far as I know, the Penrose is identical to the Mobius, with exception of the removal of the headtracking tech (which for me seems useless). Sound-wise should be the same. Doesn't the penrose include surround sound? I believed this was produced by the computer software instead of the headphones.
> 
> The main drawback of the Mobius for me seems the added price of the 3d tracking, as well as wireless, which is not really that important for me as it is for PC usage mostly. These together set the price of the mobius to 400 EUR, down to 300 in BF at best, which is still way off my budget.
> 
> Regarding the HyperX, I felt the same as you, but supposedly, they are made entirely by Audeze, with only some minor specs from HyperX. For what I have read they can be even more confortable, while retaining the mobius sound quality


They don't sound the same. The Penrose is improved technologically over the Mobius. Quieter noise floor, and preliminary testing, it took me two seconds to realize the the Mobius is quite a bit warmer than the Penrose. The Penrose sounds more dynamic, energetic, cleaner, and clearer. They're *quite* different. Both are stellar to me, but the Penrose sounds faster, more spacious and detailed, while the Mobius is more sultry, inviting, and full bodied. They actually contrast and compliment each other well. If I had to choose one on SQ alone, the Penrose takes it however. For gaming, the Penrose is absolutely the better choice. You do have to remember that both have EQ and Mobius has presets, and you can likely EQ the Mobius enough to get something akin to the Penrose tonal character and vice versa. However, I like to leave things default. In terms of the Mobius, I compared with both default and flat presets most.

Though anyone with a Mobius don't feel bad. It's more that they're different than one being better than the other. Testing the Mobius, I remembered why I loved it so much. I'm not left feeling like the Penrose is 'better'. Perhaps technically and singature-wise better suited for games, but the Mobius is more forgiving, and more fleshed out. Definitely can choose one or the other based of personal preference.

The Penrose does not have surround like the Mobius. Why? Because it doesn't need it. The Penrose which is aimed for PS5 will instead rely on Sony's Tempest 3D Audio, and the Penrose X which is aimed for the Series X Xbox will rely on Dolby Atmos. So there's little need for the Penrose to have surround. Actually, there's little reason for any headset to have surround when both consoles have very good surround implementations. You're then searching for surround solution on PC which there are plenty of, and I'd say Waves NX for $10 is an easy recommendation.

The headtracking is missing of course.

The ONLY Hyper X headset made my Audeze is the Orbit.


----------



## ArchDash

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They don't sound the same. The Penrose is improved technologically over the Mobius. Quieter noise floor, and preliminary testing, it took me two seconds to realize the the Mobius is quite a bit warmer than the Penrose. The Penrose sounds more dynamic, energetic, cleaner, and clearer. They're *quite* different. Both are stellar to me, but the Penrose sounds faster, more spacious and detailed, while the Mobius is more sultry, inviting, and full bodied. They actually contrast and compliment each other well. If I had to choose one on SQ alone, the Penrose def takes it however. For gaming, the Penrose is absolutely the better choice. You do have to remember that both have EQ and Mobius has presets, and you can likely EQ the Mobius enough to get something akin to the Penrose tonal character and vice versa. However, I like to leave things default. In terms of the Mobius, I compared with both default and warm presets most.
> 
> The Penrose does not have surround like the Mobius. Why? Because it doesn't need it. The Penrose which is aimed for PS5 will instead rely on Sony's Tempest 3D Audio, and the Penrose X which is aimed for the Series X Xbox will rely on Dolby Atmos. So there's little need for the Penrose to have surround. Actually, there's little reason for any headset to have surround when both consoles have very good surround implementations. You're then searching for surround solution on PC which there are plenty of, and I'd say Waves NX for $10 is an easy recommendation.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your reply!

The Penrose does indeed look great, and with that surround software it will probably sound as inmersive as a any other.

However, as I am not sure how long would be until they are delivered to Europe and as black friday is close... in the worst case:

- Would you recommend the HyperX Cloud Orbit?

I am looking for something in that price range that brings confort, inmersion and good sound quality, but I am mistrustful of gaming brands. Would you recommend any other better?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 16, 2020)

ArchDash said:


> Thank you for your reply!
> 
> The Penrose does indeed look great, and with that surround software it will probably sound as inmersive as a any other.
> 
> ...


FWIR, the Orbit is essentially the Mobius, stripped down without the Bluetooth capability, which tbh is not necessary, as the bluetooth on the Mobius was more a nice bonus, and not essential. I'd say that's a damn good choice.

Remember, it's FOR PC MAINLY through USB. The Aux/3.5mm connection is nice to have for consoles, but is far from ideal, and if consoles are your main use case, definitely consider something else.


----------



## ArchDash

Mad Lust Envy said:


> FWIR, the Orbit is essentially the Mobius, stripped down without the Bluetooth capability, which tbh is not necessary, as the bluetooth on the Mobius was more a nice bonus, and not essential. I'd say that's a damn good choice.
> 
> Remember, it's FOR PC MAINLY through USB. The Aux/3.5mm connection is nice to have for consoles, but is far from ideal, and if consoles are your main use case, definitely consider something else.



Yeah I am only use PC so they are more than fine to me. Thank you


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 16, 2020)

ArchDash said:


> Yeah I am only use PC so they are more than fine to me. Thank you


AH I FORGOT TO MENTION, the Orbit S has headtreacking, the regular Orbit doesn't. TBH, you don't need headtracking, even though it's a cool feature.

ALSO, both are said to work on consoles, though I'm not sure on Waves NX surround working to its full capacity on anything but the PC.

Again, forgive me, but I didn't review these, so it's all just based on what I've read on them.


----------



## CabooseMSG (Nov 16, 2020)

Hey there everyone, I was hoping I could get some opinions regarding a few of the headset options I'm looking into.

I've had the Kingston HyperX Cloud II since 2016, and its finally time to retire this headset. The cushioning is starting to peel, and its seen better days.

I've sort of whittled my interests down to a couple headsets, and one headset + desktop mic combo. Though I am complete open to suggestions, as there are so many headsets out there.

Succinctly, I'm looking for a headset preferably under $150 USD, definitely under $200 USD. I 100% need a microphone, and am looking to mostly listen to podcasts and music on the headset, but also casually game at times. So I don't need the most hyper-specific sound space or footstep locating headset. I mostly want the best sounding headset for music, but with a good microphone

*Sennheiser PC38X ($169) *- I've read some good reviews on the Drop site, but haven't seen much outside of there and in here. Anyone have any experience of how it stacks up with the next headset?

*Phillips X2HR ($148.99) + Blue Snowball iCe ($49.99) *- The absolute upper limit, as I don't want to spend over $200. Seems great, I've read some people complaining about X2HR's bass, but I'm not looking to competitively game and go pro with the thing. The desktop mic seems like its probably overkill as well.

*Some <$150 Headset + Blue Snowball iCe ($49.99) *- I'm sure there are some great headphones for music and casual gaming out there, that could be cheaper than the Phillips X2HR.

The other option I have is, since I game mainly on consoles, I purchased one of the new Corsair HS75 XB headsets. I love the thing, and it seems I could buy a *Xbox Wireless Windows 10 Adapter ($24.99) *to allow me to use this on my PC. It wouldn't be as convenient, moving my headset back and forth throughout the house ever day (I work remote, so I need the headset for podcasts and music). But cost-wise its a great proposition. I noticed there was no review for the Corsair HS75 XB on MLE's list, does anyone else have experience with this and how it holds up to some similarly priced headsets? I've never listened to music with it, just have used it for gaming on the Xbox so far.

Thank you all for reading, and for any opinions you may be able to provide!

*EDIT: *I should also add that the headset is a gift, I'd only be spending money if its over $150, or if I need to buy a microphone.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I can definitely attest to the PC38X all day. Without question. X2HR I dunno how it's been changed from the X2/27 I reviewed. You never know, and I think I'm gonna stop recommending the X2 because I just don't know if it's the same experience.


----------



## CabooseMSG

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can definitely attest to the PC38X all day. Without question. X2HR I dunno how it's been changed from the X2/27 I reviewed. You never know, and I think I'm gonna stop recommending the X2 because I just don't know if it's the same experience.


You've enjoyed your experiences listening to music using the Sennheiser then? That was the one thing I was finding hard to suss out.


----------



## Youcan1

I tried the Fiio K5 Pro and it didn't work on the PS5. The controller did a decent job of powering my M570s though. I haven't really tried the 3D stuff yet.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Is the penrose better via the USB than the mobius via 3.5mm on the controller? I do find volume to be a touch limiting with 3.5mm to the mobius but i really dislike the idea of spending another couple hundred bucks on the penrose when i wisht the mobius would work just as well. ideally sony would update it to allow the mobius to work via usb but i doubt it


----------



## leng jai

The current situation for headphone users on PS5 is incredibly stupid. Removing optical, not supporting UAC 2 interface DACs and not providing an option to send 3D audio over HDMI just makes It about as annoying as possible to connect higher end headphones to the PS5. It makes absolutely no sense that Sony went out of their way to develop their own 3D audio solution that currently only works with headphones but then made it so the only way to access it is via the terrible headphone port or old DACs that support UAC 1. My Bifrost doesn't work but my old DAC Magic does.

Out of all the games I've tried the only one that sounded great was Demon's Soul's and to a lesser extent Astrobot. Miles Morales takes a drastic hit in frequency response when you turn on 3D audio, so much so I prefer disabling it and using the normal stereo option. While the positional audio is better it masks everything sound muffled and stuff like Spiderman's punches lose impact and sound distant.


----------



## jessjj

CabooseMSG said:


> Hey there everyone, I was hoping I could get some opinions regarding a few of the headset options I'm looking into.
> 
> I've had the Kingston HyperX Cloud II since 2016, and its finally time to retire this headset. The cushioning is starting to peel, and its seen better days.
> 
> ...



I currently have the x2’s and pc38x in hand and I’m testing them against each other, mainly for gaming but I’m testing some music and vocals. I’ve had the x2’s for years and I love them. They are way more comfortable and more breathable than the pc38x’s and they sound more spacious to me. The pc38x’s sound a little bit more colorful and full and have more punch. I don’t think they sound drastically different, and both are on the fun side of headphones for me. The pc38x has the mic, but the quality is nothing near a standalone mic. If I had to keep one, I’d keep the pc38x for a slight sound improvement. If I preferred comfort the x2’s are far far better


----------



## CabooseMSG

How does the X3 compare with X2HR, price notwithstanding? Seems right now the X3 is on sale for $200 on Amazon, which makes it only $50 more expensive


----------



## jessjj

CabooseMSG said:


> How does the X3 compare with X2HR, price notwithstanding? Seems right now the X3 is on sale for $200 on Amazon, which makes it only $50 more expensive


I was excited for the x3’s but I skipped them because the consensus seemed to be that they aren’t as good as the x2’s. Maybe MLE can comment on the x3’s vs x2’s


----------



## Blackninja69

Mad Lust Envy said:


> FWIR, the Orbit is essentially the Mobius, stripped down without the Bluetooth capability, which tbh is not necessary, as the bluetooth on the Mobius was more a nice bonus, and not essential. I'd say that's a damn good choice.
> 
> Remember, it's FOR PC MAINLY through USB. The Aux/3.5mm connection is nice to have for consoles, but is far from ideal, and if consoles are your main use case, definitely consider something else.


Isnt the orbit compatible with playstation through usb? You said that usb is only for pc

Also, do you feel that sound quality is compromised with the penrose being wireless? Because I am torn between keeping my penrose order and just get another headset that I can return to Amazon while waiting for the penrose to arrive OR should I just get the hyperx cloud orbit since I do not actually need wireless as I game at my desk. Which one would you recommend me?


----------



## Rozzko

«Controller to amp was enough for 6XX.»

1) what amp do you use? 
2) what amps now selling that just can plug in jack3,5 and little amp sound from controller?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Rozzko said:


> «Controller to amp was enough for 6XX.»
> 
> 1) what amp do you use?
> 2) what amps now selling that just can plug in jack3,5 and little amp sound from controller?



Check out iFi Audio xCAN or xDSD Micro Black Label.
The first one has good power and is amp only, the second one is very powerful and can be fed via optical from TV as well as analog from controller.
And maybe USB as well, have to test it when I get the PS5, or USB support could come at a later stage when Sony implements it but it isn't really necessary since you have Sony or Xbox VSS via HDMI to TV and via optical to the amp.
Works fine with my Xbox.


----------



## danterikxx

XDUOO basic


----------



## Rozzko

I mean something like that


----------



## Rozzko

Ps5:
If I will use something like meze 99 (low ohm) witch 3,5 jack on controller , it’s will work good? Amp in controller can make meze 99 sounds good?


----------



## MapleRebel

I just wanted to say I love the PC38X. It’s a big upgrade for me (my first set of open backs) and I spent the day listening to classical and then playing Demon Souls. That dragon roar scared the daylights out of me every time. It souded like it was in the room and it had a satisfying, but not overwhelming rumble. Thanks for the recommendation!

I see a lot of people complaining about the fit, but it feels perfect to me. I keep swapping between pads, not sure what I like better sonically but the velour just feels so comfortable.


----------



## idsyphe

Has anyone found a decent dac for xsx yet? My xsx got lost in transit, replacement arrives tomorrow, keen to avoid having to buy a audio extractor, but will do if that's the best short term solution


----------



## AppleheadMay

idsyphe said:


> Has anyone found a decent dac for xsx yet? My xsx got lost in transit, replacement arrives tomorrow, keen to avoid having to buy a audio extractor, but will do if that's the best short term solution



From the info I found XsX will only be able to be used with officially MS licensed USB audio devices.
For the moment the ones I know of are LucidSound (8 headsets), Audeze Penrose X, Astro (4 headsets/devices) .
Another digital option is via HDMI to TV and optical out from TV to an iFi Micro iDSD BL, xDSD or XDUOO XD-05 Plus just to name a few good ones IMO. That option will give you Atmos for HP or DTS HP X over digital.
Breakout cables (HDMI+optical or HDMI+HDMI audio) are an option but you will lose 4k 120. I happen to have 4k120 screens so am waiting fro HDMI splitters as well.
Analog you can use controller out to any HP amp, portable or desktop.


----------



## idsyphe

AppleheadMay said:


> From the info I found XsX will only be able to be used with officially MS licensed USB audio devices.
> For the moment the ones I know of are LucidSound (8 headsets), Audeze Penrose X, Astro (4 headsets/devices) .
> Another digital option is via HDMI to TV and optical out from TV to an iFi Micro iDSD BL, xDSD or XDUOO XD-05 Plus just to name a few good ones IMO. That option will give you Atmos for HP or DTS HP X over digital.
> Breakout cables (HDMI+optical or HDMI+HDMI audio) are an option but you will lose 4k 120. I happen to have 4k120 screens so am waiting fro HDMI splitters as well.
> Analog you can use controller out to any HP amp, portable or desktop.



My monitor has 3.5mm output, maybe I should test out whether I can output dolby atmos over that


----------



## AppleheadMay

idsyphe said:


> My monitor has 3.5mm output, maybe I should test out whether I can output dolby atmos over that



IMO you might as well output from your controller.
You'll never get "Dolby Atmos" (or "DTS:X) without a "Dolby Atmos" receiver with speaker setup, Smyth Realiser or so called pseudo "Dolby Atmos" TV or soundbar. 
All the options I described concern "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" and DTS Headphone: X", which are not the same as "Dolby Atmos" or DTS:X".


----------



## idsyphe

AppleheadMay said:


> IMO you might as well output from your controller.
> You'll never get "Dolby Atmos" (or "DTS:X) without a "Dolby Atmos" receiver with speaker setup, Smyth Realiser or so called pseudo "Dolby Atmos" TV or soundbar.
> All the options I described concern "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" and DTS Headphone: X", which are not the same as "Dolby Atmos" or DTS:X".



Sorry yeah should clarify, for headphones, but mainly I prefer to not have to leave my headphones plugged into the controller, rather not have them tethered


----------



## AppleheadMay

idsyphe said:


> Sorry yeah should clarify, for headphones, but mainly I prefer to not have to leave my headphones plugged into the controller, rather not have them tethered



I think the HP jack on your TV/monitot or controller will sound about the same.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Blackninja69 said:


> Isnt the orbit compatible with playstation through usb? You said that usb is only for pc


I updated that comment, I meant that to gain the full surround capability of waves nx, it's only possible on PC. PS4 would only expand stereo.

My bad, I mistook the Ibasso dac as something else. Edited out the statement I made.

As for Penrose, usb is only for CHARGING, and for changing settings in the software on pc. It doesn't have usb audio.

The wireless on the Penrose sounds just like a wired connection. I would not be able to tell.


----------



## CabooseMSG (Nov 17, 2020)

Anyone have any insight on how X3 stacks up to X2HR? Im not a huge bass-head, but i still want bass

Also MLE, sounds like Phillips claims X2HR is just a slight revision, mostly on materials and such. Think it comes with velour and a hybrid fabric cushion for each ear


----------



## Rozzko

Rozzko said:


> I mean something like that


No?



Rozzko said:


> Ps5:
> If I will use something like meze 99 (low ohm) witch 3,5 jack on controller , it’s will work good? Amp in controller can make meze 99 sounds good?


It will be work good with controller 3,5 jack or not?


----------



## danterikxx

Rozzko said:


> It will be work good with controller 3,5 jack or not?



With an amp? I guess so


----------



## Rozzko

Sorry again
What will be better for ps5? Pulse
3D by wireless, or meze 99 by 3,5 jack in controller? Where better quality will be?



danterikxx said:


> With an amp? I guess so


No, without. Only headphones (meze 99) + ps5 controller


----------



## Abdizzle

I just got a Arctis Pro Wireless and put it back in the box to sell after 15 minutes of head time. It sounds atrocious coming from a TH610. Was hoping the wireless convenience would out weigh the sound quality loss but it's such a drastic difference.

Besides the Arctis sounding super low resolution, there's 0 imaging or sound stage/depth which kills it's presentation. It sounds like what I imagine $3 earbuds do (best way I can describe it).

I have a Penrose on order and pray it's not another Arctis Pro Wireless. I really want to ditch the E30/L30 optical to my TV + USB for my PS5 + PC and go wireless but just don't think performance is there yet.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 17, 2020)

I'll let you guys in on review mic testing for the Penrose. Disregard the background noise. My room is not exactly a good testing area.

As you can hear, the Penrose sounds damn good. Had to do it via Aux, because I couldn't get my PC to pick up the mic loud enough through wireless and bluetooth. So this is all through the Schiit Hel which I can control much better.

The Penrose mic was made by Shure, and really improves ther quality vs the Mobius mic. Maybe they'll sell it separately in the future for Mobius users.

*Ok, so Wireless does have limitations....

The roles have reversed, and now I feel the Mobius mic is better in wireless mode. Disregard the VOLUME output. Thats a setting problem I have. *









Ideally you will want to let the mic work through aux, and main audio be wireless for best combination. The wireless mode mic ouput is simply too muffled for my liking. At least on PC, set the Penrose to wireless mode for the Main Audio device, and use an Aux cable to send mic audio, that way you don't limit the bandwith on the microphone. You'll be tethered when voice chatting, but it just sounds so much better. Like drastically so.


----------



## AppleheadMay

So, does anyone here know LucidSound as a brand?
Would the LS50X be a typical gaming headset or something better?

https://lucidsound.com/products/ls50x-wireless-bluetooth-gaming-headset


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I *think* they sent me a message before, but I was too busy at the time.


----------



## AppleheadMay

MLE, just to be clear on Tempest: just like Atmos for Headphones all processing is done in the console and the sound is sent as stereo to your phones, right?
There’s nothing extra The 3D Pulse headset does for Tempest? Penrose will play Tempest just as well as the Sony headphone?


----------



## kadinh

AppleheadMay said:


> MLE, just to be clear on Tempest: just like Atmos for Headphones all processing is done in the console and the sound is sent as stereo to your phones, right?
> There’s nothing extra The 3D Pulse headset does for Tempest? Penrose will play Tempest just as well as the Sony headphone?


To my knowledge, you are correct. I heard that Sony wanted to create a better experience for everyone, regardless of headphones.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Yep, that’s what I think as well. 
I think I’ll go with Penrose only


----------



## kadinh

AppleheadMay said:


> Yep, that’s what I think as well.
> I think I’ll go with Penrose only


I am actually thinking about trying it out too.

I tried connecting my DACs with usb from PS5 to DAC (Topping E30 and D50s) and usb-c on controller to DAC and hip dac. No method worked. The only way I can get sound from my PS5 to my headphones is 1) PS5 -> HDMI-> LG CX tv -> optical cable -> DAC or using adapters to turn my 4.4mm/XLR/1/4" to 3.5mm, but some headphones are too quiet to use.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, all Tempest processing is done at the system level.

What a time to be alive. We have been SCREAMING the virtues of virtual surround for a decade and no one would listen. Now, both main consoles have their  own forms of VSS. 🤣


----------



## leng jai

kadinh said:


> I am actually thinking about trying it out too.
> 
> I tried connecting my DACs with usb from PS5 to DAC (Topping E30 and D50s) and usb-c on controller to DAC and hip dac. No method worked. The only way I can get sound from my PS5 to my headphones is 1) PS5 -> HDMI-> LG CX tv -> optical cable -> DAC or using adapters to turn my 4.4mm/XLR/1/4" to 3.5mm, but some headphones are too quiet to use.



That method doesn't work with 3D audio on the PS5 sadly.


----------



## kadinh

leng jai said:


> That method doesn't work with 3D audio on the PS5 sadly.


Nope  only from the controller right now


----------



## AppleheadMay (Nov 17, 2020)

kadinh said:


> I am actually thinking about trying it out too.
> I tried connecting my DACs with usb from PS5 to DAC (Topping E30 and D50s) and usb-c on controller to DAC and hip dac. No method worked. The only way I can get sound from my PS5 to my headphones is 1) PS5 -> HDMI-> LG CX tv -> optical cable -> DAC or using adapters to turn my 4.4mm/XLR/1/4" to 3.5mm, but some headphones are too quiet to use.



That's what I'm doing now as well: XsX (with Atmos H or DTSX H on) -> HDMI -> LG GX -> optical -> iFi Micro iDSD BL.
My PS5 is coming in Thursday so haven't tried it on PS5 yet.
I'll keep using this method as it gives me the means to use cans like my HD800S, K7XX and LCD-GX. Maybe add an Arya.
The iFi has ample power and it's subtle 3D+ effect that I don't like for music actually makes my gaming experience better, widens/opens up the scene.

But I'll add the Penrose/X as well for versatility and ease of use and I expect them to be the best wireless solutions for both consoles.

I tried my Drop + THX Panda as a gaming headphone but didn't like it very much for that purpose, it lacks immersion and that's what I prefer in a gaming headphone.


----------



## AppleheadMay

kadinh said:


> Nope  only from the controller right now



Optical from the CX doesn't work with PS5?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can't get 3D audio from anything taken from the PS5 that's not through the headphone jack or usb based audio.

No hdmi, meaning no optical from a tv which took the audio from the hdmi.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Nov 17, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can't get 3D audio from anything taken from the PS5 that's not through the headphone jack or usb based audio.
> 
> No hdmi, meaning no optical from a tv which took the audio from the hdmi.



That console is in serious need for updates if it doesn't deliver it's 3D over HDMI as well as for it's storage problems.

Just bought an 8TB Seagate Backup Plus Hub, received it today and returned it.
While I have the same drive working like a charm on the XsX (and Xone before that), the PS4 (and PS5 according to various fora) doesn't wanna use it because a) the drive is 8,01TB (according to the PS) and it doesn't take larger than 8TB and b) it thinks the drive isn't connected straight to the console because it includes a hub.

But ah well, the iDSD takes 3,5mm input as well.


----------



## Xero the Banana

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can't get 3D audio from anything taken from the PS5 that's not through the headphone jack or usb based audio.
> 
> No hdmi, meaning no optical from a tv which took the audio from the hdmi.


Are there any audio interfaces or dacs that successfully work via usb plugin to the ps5? With or without 3d audio


----------



## kadinh

Xero the Banana said:


> Are there any audio interfaces or dacs that successfully work via usb plugin to the ps5? With or without 3d audio


Looks like equipment that uses UAC1 are working, but more recent things that use UAC2 do not function.


----------



## leng jai

Xero the Banana said:


> Are there any audio interfaces or dacs that successfully work via usb plugin to the ps5? With or without 3d audio



UAC 1 interface USB DACs seems to work but not UAC 2. Seems like most modern ones use UAC 2. My Bifrost doesn't work but my 10 year old DAC Magic does. You can still plug your DAC into the optical port of your TV and it'll work, you just won't be able to use the Tempest 3D audio.


----------



## Abdizzle

IMO the 3D audio in Demon Souls is pretty transformative. The fact that it can only be utilized through the controller or direct from console is such a huge short coming at the moment.


----------



## AppleheadMay

For a while now I had the feeling that the PS5 is still a work in progress ...


----------



## Xero the Banana

kadinh said:


> Looks like equipment that uses UAC1 are working, but more recent things that use UAC2 do not function.





leng jai said:


> UAC 1 interface USB DACs seems to work but not UAC 2. Seems like most modern ones use UAC 2. My Bifrost doesn't work but my 10 year old DAC Magic does. You can still plug your DAC into the optical port of your TV and it'll work, you just won't be able to use the Tempest 3D audio.


Thank you. This seems like a strange decision. If I were to get a ps5 I would be gaming via a 4k computer monitor, so I do not think I'd be able to use the optical port route. 
The 3d audio system seems intriguing, but the limitations, both on the usb audio and proprietary 3d audio are quite disappointing.


----------



## danterikxx

AppleheadMay said:


> For a while now I had the feeling that the PS5 is still a work in progress ...



Just like the PS4

back then we had to wait a whole year just to be able to pause downloads


----------



## Rozzko

can the ps4 or ps5 controller swing (open up the sound) headphones like meze 99, in which there is low impedance


----------



## mindbomb

A lot of people are complaining about how the ps5 only does binaural audio through the headphone jack or a uac1 device that gets detected as a usb headset. But tbh, to me, it sounds like a good system. Remember that binaural audio requires headphones to be used. With the current system, a user can switch from headphones for competitive gaming, to tv speakers for casual gaming, and the console will automatically handle everything properly.


----------



## JayL

So i cannot get dolby headphone surround going

PS5 hdmi to LG C9 to LG C9 optical out to mixamp 5.8?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2020)

JayL said:


> So i cannot get dolby headphone surround going
> 
> PS5 hdmi to LG C9 to LG C9 optical out to mixamp 5.8?


YES, you can still get all the OTHER virtual surround solutions like the Mixamp's Dolby Headphone. We're specifically talking about Sony's Tempest 3D audio, which you CAN'T.





			
				mindbomb said:
			
		

> A lot of people are complaining about how the ps5 only does binaural audio through the headphone jack or a uac1 device that gets detected as a usb headset. But tbh, to me, it sounds like a good system. Remember that binaural audio requires headphones to be used. With the current system, a user can switch from headphones for competitive gaming, to tv speakers for casual gaming, and the console will automatically handle everything properly.



But how is it a good system if you're being limited for no reason? All there needs to be on PS5 is an option. Period.

"Enable Headphone  3D Audio Through HDMI"

That's literally it.

No ands, ifs, or buts. There are many, many people with AVRs that have headphone jacks. Sony should've thought....hmm, maybe allow 3D audio on HDMI so AVRs can use it. If you don't want 3D audio, then simply disable it through HDMI for the times you're not plugging in headphones.


----------



## EmojilessPsykop (Nov 18, 2020)

I use SDAC+ESP95X+modmic for gaming on PC. Sometimes I connect GSX1000 Headphone output to ESP95X amp when I want VSS. Would PC38X be an upgrade for gaming? I feel like chasing a more immersive experience, feeling more like I'm there in the game. Would PC38x offer expanded and more natural soundstage? Or would that be sidegrade/downgrade? Thank you!

Edit: I do realize ESP95X costs a lot more, but I suspect PC38X may be better suited for gaming. Comparisons across the two are very welcome in general as I couldn't find that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

ESP95X is a damn good stat for the price, and perhaps its better to go for something that would contrast it more than the PC38X. The PC38X does have a more rounded off bottom end, but the tonality is probably more alike than different. That being said, as far as open backed headsets go, I could never say no to the PC38X.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> "Enable Headphone 3D Audio Through HDMI"


Would this effectively allow the 3D audio to be transferred over optical through the tv to an external dac?


----------



## idsyphe

So got my XSX and very happy with the headphone capability on my setup. 

I've hooked up my monitor 3.5mm output to my trusty old turtle beach dss2 analog in, to my surprise the noise floor isn't adversely affected, and turning up volume to max doesn't amplify any static.

This gives me a physical volume knob, and in xbox settings I've set dolby atmos headphone output over hdmi (ps5 can learn something here). Sounds great, a wee bit different to the optical I was used to previously, but couldn't fault it when trying out a few games.

I feel like the dss2 powers my k7xx well enough, I have volume set to about 40-50% so plenty of headroom, and the sound is full bodied to my naive ears, was keen to try something new, but with how well this is working, I'm going to patiently wait for something better.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2020)

kadinh said:


> Would this effectively allow the 3D audio to be transferred over optical through the tv to an external dac?


Yes... that's why we'd like that option to exist. Once the 3D audio is enabled at the system level, it'd affect everything connected to whatever it is being sent to. Just like virtual surround, you can't 'remove' that processing from the chain once it is introduced. It is part of the signal forever at that point.

One thing that is basically misinformation on Sony's part is that they make it sound like you need specific headsets for 3D Audio to work. Some knowledgeable people thought 3D audio only worked with specific hardware, which is simply not true. It works with everything, as long as the signal is sent.

So I get people asking me if you need the Sony 3D Pulse to take advantage of 3D audio. No... no you don't at all. Even dollar store headphones will get 3D audio.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes... that's why we'd like that option to exist. Once the 3D audio is enabled at the system level, it'd affect everything connected to whatever it is being sent to. Just like virtual surround, you can't 'remove' that processing from the chain once it is introduced. It is part of the signal forever at that point.
> 
> One thing that is basically misinformation on Sony's part is that they make it sound like you need specific headsets for 3D Audio to work. Some knowledgeable people thought 3D audio only worked with specific hardware, which is simply not true. It works with everything, as long as the signal is sent.
> 
> So I get people asking me if you need the Sony 3D Pulse to take advantage of 3D audio. No... no you don't at all. Even dollar store headphones will get 3D audio.




Did you see much of a difference between the new audeze headphones and the Mobius if the mobius is just using tempest via the controller?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, you have to contend with the sound quality differences. In terms of Tempest 3D audio, the positional accuracy directionality shouldn't sound all that different between them, asides from the obvious tonal differences.


----------



## leng jai

mindbomb said:


> A lot of people are complaining about how the ps5 only does binaural audio through the headphone jack or a uac1 device that gets detected as a usb headset. But tbh, to me, it sounds like a good system. Remember that binaural audio requires headphones to be used. With the current system, a user can switch from headphones for competitive gaming, to tv speakers for casual gaming, and the console will automatically handle everything properly.



That makes no sense. There's literally no reason the PS5 shouldn't be able to send "headphone audio" through HDMI, the Xbox 1X and PCs have been able to do it for years.


----------



## RugbyPlayer (Nov 18, 2020)

leng jai said:


> That makes no sense. There's literally no reason the PS5 shouldn't be able to send "headphone audio" through HDMI, the Xbox 1X and PCs have been able to do it for years.



As an EE, it doesnt matter if other hardware can. if the PS5 doesnt have a DAC before the HDMI and no signal pathway, there isnt a way physically for it to send analogue headphone audio via hdmi.

Its not as simple as sending analog/headphone audio through hdmi, HDMI is a strictly digital interface. There has to be something after the HDMI to extract the audio and convert it to analogue, which is why monitors/tvs are doing when you use them for headphone audio


----------



## Fegefeuer

People mostly just want to grab the stereo signal from the optical out of their TVs or connect a headphone to their AVR. Others want to use an optical splitter to go to their DACs. It's not a complicated issue.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Well going back to Cerny's deep dive talk, he did say initially 3D audio would be focussed on headphones, and later support for speakers would come. 

Perhaps they're not yet satisfied with Tempest's performance on external speakers and will restrict 3D over HDMI until then. 
Sucks for high end headphone setups though. Hope the update rolls out soon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2020)

It's def not a complicated issue. Tempest 3D is digital processing. Digital, meaning they can just send those 0s and 1s through the HDMI. It's the same reason any usb headset that the PS5 can pick up can take in the 3D audio.

Hell my USB to 3.5mm DONGLE can get it.

It's a digital instruction. No physical limitation whatsoever. It's done at the system level. They just have to send the instruction to the HDMI output.


----------



## mindbomb

Yea, I'm not saying there is any technical reason why they couldn't have the feature. I'm saying there is some merit to having safeguards in place such that the ps5 only does the headphone processing if it can see that there are headphones attached. Considering the most common scenario is going to be headphones used through the headphone jack, speakers used through hdmi, it prevents user error.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I understand user error, but thats why you don't make it a default option for hdmi, and have it plainly state 'Enable 3D Audio for HEADPHONES through HDMI". I mean, I think that's pretty self explanatory.

It works for Xbox, why can't it work for Sony?


----------



## leng jai

mindbomb said:


> Yea, I'm not saying there is any technical reason why they couldn't have the feature. I'm saying there is some merit to having safeguards in place such that the ps5 only does the headphone processing if it can see that there are headphones attached. Considering the most common scenario is going to be headphones used through the headphone jack, speakers used through hdmi, it prevents user error.



It's stupid that Sony went out of their way make their own 3D audio solution but then made it annoying as possible for people with high end headphone setups to access it. No one who cares about sound quality and has decent equipment would want to plug their headphones into the controller. You'd think that it's the "enthusiast" headphone crowd who would be most interested in 3D audio in the first place and Sony have done basically nothing to cater to them at all. Your average joe who buys a gaming headset likely doesn't even care about sound quality or even knows what Tempest is.


----------



## illram

Yeah Xbox has had a headphone via HDMI option for years. 

I suspect, like everything else that sucks for seemingly no reason, that this is a licensing issue.


----------



## kadinh

Would controller - 3.5mm to RCA - amp - headphones work?


----------



## UrsusMajor

AppleheadMay said:


> That's what I'm doing now as well: XsX (with Atmos H or DTSX H on) -> HDMI -> LG GX -> optical -> iFi Micro iDSD BL.
> My PS5 is coming in Thursday so haven't tried it on PS5 yet.
> I'll keep using this method as it gives me the means to use cans like my HD800S, K7XX and LCD-GX. Maybe add an Arya.
> The iFi has ample power and it's subtle 3D+ effect that I don't like for music actually makes my gaming experience better, widens/opens up the scene.
> ...


Did you get the Arya?
Just wondering for the HD800S, why did you choose the iFi over your HDV820? And how do they compare


----------



## AppleheadMay

kadinh said:


> Would controller - 3.5mm to RCA - amp - headphones work?



Yep, works like a charm, you'll have the 3D audio that way.



UrsusMajor said:


> Did you get the Arya?
> Just wondering for the HD800S, why did you choose the iFi over your HDV820? And how do they compare



No, I just decided last night I'm getting the Arya in a month or two.
My wallet just needs to recover a bit from the recent shopping spree ...  
I have been long interested in HiFiMan but always kept purchases off due to their poor QC reputation.
But I decided to get over that and buy from a reputable local seller so I have decent warranty.\
And the Arya is one of their mid to higher tier priced phones so while it should be good for gaming with it's imaging it'll also give me a decent idea what the brand is like for music with a decent amp.

I sold the HDVA600 and HDV820 long time ago so I can't compare.
I have a Luxman stack here for music via Roon and a Schiit stack I use for both gaming and music.
But I added the Micro iDSD BL to have a volume control right beside me where I game and to be able to connect optical for Xbox (from TV) and analog for PS (from controller).
I tried the little amp with some music and must say the SQ is really good (as in no elaborate tests but I really have no negative remarks) and it has ample power to drive the HD800S/HD820.
I keep the 3D+ off for music but actually prefer it on for gaming.
The XBass+ setting will be a personal preference for people. I like it off for gaming and most music but on some tracks it's actually worth having on.
I can imagine Bassheads and EDM lovers will like it on.
Both options are actually subtle and very well done unlike a lot of bass boost options that distort anything from your upper bass to lower mids.
All in all I highly recommend this amp, surely if you have harder to drive cans, but it comes at a price.


----------



## PlayStationPauly (Nov 19, 2020)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No ands, ifs, or buts. There are many, many people with AVRs that have headphone jacks. Sony should've thought....hmm, maybe allow 3D audio on HDMI so AVRs can use it. If you don't want 3D audio, then simply disable it through HDMI for the times you're not plugging in headphones.



Wow, thank you! This is exactly the dilemma that I'm in, and it's a bit frustrating/exciting at the same time. I say exciting because I just entered this audiophile headphone rabbit hole with tabs and tabs of so much new info; it's super interesting nonetheless. From DACs to Amps to Cans and their mods, the selection is vast for pairing with my PS5 setup. I also think I have a pretty decent understanding of the whole UAC1 situation of the new Sony console.

So a little background, I've always respected the audio side of entertainment, whether it's movies, music, or videogames. When it comes to any medium, I've tried to get the best quality out of them as much as I can with what I have. So for videogames, I've had a Denon AVR for the longest time (2011), and for the past 2 years or so, I noticed I'm using the headphone jack (with an ATH-M50) more and more for competitive and single-player gaming instead of my 5.1 surround sound. With Sony emphasizing their new Tempest format (which is only initially available for headsets), I really wanted to start the new-gen strong in the audio department. I want to say more than a couple of hours have been put into researching the most optimal yet budget-friendly setup that actually works with Sony's 3D audio. And again, it could've been much shorter if Sony just had implemented a UAC2 solution or 3D audio over HDMI, but I digress.

Now I don't mind if the setup is wired (I'm so used to it from the M50s), so naturally, I looked into wired phones (under $350ish), and as far as selection goes, I compared a bunch but to name a few would be the PC37X, PC38X, DT770, DT990, HD58X, SHP9500, X2HR, the HD6XX and many more. Then I looked for the DACs/Amp requirements needed to sufficiently power and connect said phones with the 3D format, and it's been a doozy. From Schiit stacks to Creative's G6 to JDS Labs DACs, it's a little daunting, more so from Sony not being up to par with UAC2 compatibility or the HDMI solution mentioned above.

After a while, a wireless solution (the Audeze Penrose) had caught my eye, which eliminates a lot of the DAC/Amp prereqs for a wired setup. I've never had a wireless setup before, but I'm sure the tech is up to par with fidelity vs. wired. So I am waiting patiently for some Penrose reviews to come through. I'm not sure if I should pull the trigger on the planars and see what Sony does for the "TV 3D audio coming after launch" or what, but I'm not in a rush. I want to make sure the setup is just right. I want to eventually utilize a DAC/Amp combo for a wired setup (if I go with HD6XXs, for example) because I'm reading that the headphone output's hardware isn't really that optimal for AVRs. Some quick questions that I have, and I thank all of those in advance that help answer them:

1) Would the Penrose's benefit at all from a wired line instead of the wireless dongle?

2) How would I be able to get 3D audio via a Schiit Asgard 3 with a DAC module to an HD6XX, for example? Line out via controller? Is that even optimal?


----------



## danterikxx

PlayStationPauly said:


> Wow, thank you! This is exactly the dilemma that I'm in, and it's a bit frustrating/exciting at the same time. I say exciting because I just entered this audiophile headphone rabbit hole with tabs and tabs of so much new info; it's super interesting nonetheless. From DACs to Amps to Cans and their mods, the selection is vast for pairing with my PS5 setup. I also think I have a pretty decent understanding of the whole UAC1 situation of the new Sony console.
> 
> So a little background, I've always respected the audio side of entertainment, whether it's movies, music, or videogames. When it comes to any medium, I've tried to get the best quality out of them as much as I can with what I have. So for videogames, I've had a Denon AVR for the longest time (2011), and for the past 2 years or so, I noticed I'm using the headphone jack (with an ATH-M50) more and more for competitive and single-player gaming instead of my 5.1 surround sound. With Sony emphasizing their new Tempest format (which is only initially available for headsets), I really wanted to start the new-gen strong in the audio department. I want to say more than a couple of hours have been put into researching the most optimal yet budget-friendly setup that actually works with Sony's 3D audio. And again, it could've been much shorter if Sony just had implemented a UAC2 solution or 3D audio over HDMI, but I digress.
> 
> ...



-Get a Creative G6, which works with the PS5 and gives you 3D Audio

-Get one of those headphones. Of that list, i'd pick the 58X or 6XX, but that's me, i don't need a mic)

This is more than enough to give you a good audio experience in games


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hell my USB to 3.5mm DONGLE can get it.


I'm about to get a USB to RCA cable to connect it to my L30 and stop waiting for Sony to enable 3D over HDMI


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I understand user error, but thats why you don't make it a default option for hdmi, and have it plainly state 'Enable 3D Audio for HEADPHONES through HDMI". I mean, I think that's pretty self explanatory.
> 
> It works for Xbox, why can't it work for Sony?


How does the "headphones though HDMI" work on the XBOX? 
I have been away from console gaming for 20 years... but I am getting my son an XBOX Series X for his birthday, so interested to know


----------



## idsyphe

Zachik said:


> How does the "headphones though HDMI" work on the XBOX?
> I have been away from console gaming for 20 years... but I am getting my son an XBOX Series X for his birthday, so interested to know



It just allows you to select the encoding method for the output (dolby atmos headphones, windows sonic, or dts headphone x), and then the audio track that is sent over hdmi is encoded with the option you selected.

This means if your xbox is plugged into a home theatre receiver, you should get virtual surround through the headphone jack, as long as the receiver isn't doing its own processing (some receivers do dolby headphone for instance).

If you plug your xbox into a monitor that has a 3.5mm jack output, then again the audio will be processed by the chosen processor.

Someone else may be able to clariftly whether it then sends multiple tracks (i.e. 2ch headphone + dolby digital at the same time)


----------



## illram

idsyphe said:


> It just allows you to select the encoding method for the output (dolby atmos headphones, windows sonic, or dts headphone x), and then the audio track that is sent over hdmi is encoded with the option you selected.
> 
> This means if your xbox is plugged into a home theatre receiver, you should get virtual surround through the headphone jack, as long as the receiver isn't doing its own processing (some receivers do dolby headphone for instance).
> 
> ...



That's exactly how it works. 

(It doesn't send multiple tracks, just whatever you select.)


----------



## UrsusMajor

Is there enough bandwidth via optical to get 7.1 vss? Or would it be limited to 5.1?


----------



## idsyphe

UrsusMajor said:


> Is there enough bandwidth via optical to get 7.1 vss? Or would it be limited to 5.1?



Vss is encoded in stereo, so only 2 channels, so absolutely


----------



## UrsusMajor

idsyphe said:


> Vss is encoded in stereo, so only 2 channels, so absolutely


But would you not require an actual 7.1 signal initially? As I thought the DSP downmixes the original full fat surround to a 2-channel vss output to headphones

In other words, I know 7.1 vss would be fine in this setup: Source --USB--> DSP --Optical--> DAC/AMP ---> Headphones

But what I'm wondering is if you can still get 7.1 vss this way: Source ---Optical---> DSP ---3.5mm---> Headphones


----------



## idsyphe

UrsusMajor said:


> But would you not require an actual 7.1 signal initially? As I thought the DSP downmixes the original full fat surround to a 2-channel vss output to headphones
> 
> In other words, I know 7.1 vss would be fine in this setup: Source --USB--> DSP --Optical--> DAC/AMP ---> Headphones
> 
> But what I'm wondering is if you can still get 7.1 vss this way: Source ---Optical---> DSP ---3.5mm---> Headphones



Aah gotcha, yeah I think optical only supports 6 channels.


----------



## stavros.m

Would the  Philips x3 be a good buy for immersive games like assassin creed Valhalla? They are currently on special for 250 CDN.
Does anyone know if the G6 will work with the series X with dolby atmos for headphones. Since we know it works with the PS5 i am curious if its worth the buy. I would like the penrose but between shipping and duties its crazy expensive. 

thanks for the help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 21, 2020)

Guys I noticed something with PS5 Tempest 3D Audio.

It distorts bass pretty noticeably. As in game explosions and anything that requires a lot of bass, makes any headphone sound robotic in the bass. It's definitely a 3D audio issue because if you set to stereo, it doesn't occur.

So keep that in mind. It's not your headphones, it's the 3D audio.

I noticed this while playing Black Ops. I tested the Penrose, and tested other headphones connected to the controller. They all exhibited the same issue...


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys I noticed something with PS5 Tempest 3D Audio.
> 
> It distorts bass pretty noticeably. As in game explosions and anything that requires a lot of bass, makes any headphone sound robotic in the bass. It's definitely a 3D audio issue because if you set to stereo, it doesn't occur.
> 
> ...



MLE, have you already reviewed the Penrose somewhere?
I can’t find it on the first page.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No, I'm not done.


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys I noticed something with PS5 Tempest 3D Audio.
> 
> It distorts bass pretty noticeably. As in game explosions and anything that requires a lot of bass, makes any headphone sound robotic in the bass. It's definitely a 3D audio issue because if you set to stereo, it doesn't occur.
> 
> ...



Does the console itself have a volume setting? Can you check if it goes away at lower volumes?


----------



## illram

UrsusMajor said:


> But would you not require an actual 7.1 signal initially? As I thought the DSP downmixes the original full fat surround to a 2-channel vss output to headphones
> 
> In other words, I know 7.1 vss would be fine in this setup: Source --USB--> DSP --Optical--> DAC/AMP ---> Headphones
> 
> But what I'm wondering is if you can still get 7.1 vss this way: Source ---Optical---> DSP ---3.5mm---> Headphones



No, optical is limited to 2 channels unless it is compressed, e.g. Dolby Digital.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

mindbomb said:


> Does the console itself have a volume setting? Can you check if it goes away at lower volumes?



It does but I wasn't maxed out.

I'll keep looking into it.


----------



## BRicardo

Probably a silly question, but I'm an audio noob... I've been thinking about buying an external DAC to use with the PS5, but would that mean it will "overwrite" whatever audio capabilities the PS5 has? So loss of 3D audio and would an external DAC still be worth it then?


----------



## danterikxx

BRicardo said:


> Probably a silly question, but I'm an audio noob... I've been thinking about buying an external DAC to use with the PS5, but would that mean it will "overwrite" whatever audio capabilities the PS5 has? So loss of 3D audio and would an external DAC still be worth it then?



Buy Creative G6 

It allows you to use 3D audio through USB


----------



## bitslacker

I’m also new here and find myself both excited and overwhelmed by the information here. I’ve been reading the detailed reviews and am just so impressed by the content here.

I’m coming from a SteelSeries H Wireless headset that sounded pretty good to my inexperienced ears. I’m realizing that I’m one of the victims of console marketing and can get a better headset for the same money or less.

After catching up on mad envy’s latest reviews and discussions in this thread, I’m enticed by both the Audeze Penrose and the PC38X. Here area couple of questions:

1. It sounds like the PC38X is an efficient headset. Is it efficient enough to plug in directly to PS5 dual sense controller or will I need something else to drive it?

2. The Audeze Penrose sounds pretty cool and checks most of the boxes I’m interested in. If I purchased the Penrose X, would I be able to use it for both the PS5 and Series X? I’m assuming it doesn’t say it supports PS5 due to licensing requirements.

Thanks all! Happy listening!


----------



## WhiteHartMart

bitslacker said:


> I’m also new here and find myself both excited and overwhelmed by the information here. I’ve been reading the detailed reviews and am just so impressed by the content here.
> 
> I’m coming from a SteelSeries H Wireless headset that sounded pretty good to my inexperienced ears. I’m realizing that I’m one of the victims of console marketing and can get a better headset for the same money or less.
> 
> ...



Can answer point 1 for you as I've been switching between the PC38x and Tygr 300r via the Dualsense.  PC38x gets more than loud enough for me via the controller - that's not to say the quality can't be improved with something like the Creative G6 but the pad should suffice for most


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 23, 2020)

bitslacker said:


> I’m also new here and find myself both excited and overwhelmed by the information here. I’ve been reading the detailed reviews and am just so impressed by the content here.
> 
> I’m coming from a SteelSeries H Wireless headset that sounded pretty good to my inexperienced ears. I’m realizing that I’m one of the victims of console marketing and can get a better headset for the same money or less.
> 
> ...



1. It is an efficient headphone, but the controller won't have much headroom. It's worth trying out first, and consider an amp in the future if for some reason it isn't. I'm not able to test as I no longer have the 38X on hand.

2. You hit the nail on the head. Likely due to licensing agreements, Audeze can't officially state that the X which has the USB transmitter with Xbox support toggle switch can support the PS5. However, nothing is stopping general UAC1 devices from working with PS5, and the Penrose X  toggle states Xbox on one side and PC on the other. The PC side is likely UAC1 USB mode, because at this moment it DOES work with PS5 as well.

So if you intend on owning both Xbox and PS5, the Penrose X is the logical choice. THAT BEING SAID, it doesn't mean that the ability to work on PS5 will always be there, so just a word of warning. If you plan on getting the Penrose X, consider the PS5 functionality as a nice bonus that isn't OFFICIALLY supported, and may not work down the line.

If you don't plan on owning on Xbox, SERIOUSLY, don't risk it, and just get the non-X Penrose.


----------



## bitslacker

@WhiteHartMart !! Thanks for the quick answer about the PC38X!!

I got an answer from Audeze support about the Penrose X that I think is safe to share:
"Penrose X was designed and licensed for Xbox, and Penrose was designed specifically for PlayStation. Since PlayStation currently does not require security protocol for USB headsets, Penrose X may be compatible, but we have no way to know if this will remain the case."

My assumption would be that Sony wouldn't want to make that sort of change post launch, but who knows.

@Mad Lust Envy That makes total sense, thanks for the reply. 

Here's a thought though.. Is the Penrose (non x version) presented as a general UAC1 usb or this there something more going on there? If Sony decided to add a requirement for a security protocol, what would that mean for existing devices like the Penrose (non x version)? I guess they could also implement a whitelist of specific usb vendor and product IDs.


----------



## PlayStationPauly

Thinking of pulling the trigger on an HD6XX, but was wondering if the 3-year extended warranty from Drop is worth it?


----------



## aidylennox

Another newbie 
Thank you for the wealth of information here!

I’m looking for recommendations on new headphones...

For use on the PS5 solely.
FPS - Competitive only - ie Warzone / Apex / Cold War (use a 5.1 Home Theatre for immersive games/audio/films etc)
Max budget £200 UK GBP (happy with 2nd hand and would prefer cheapest option of course)

Currently running Astro A40 & Mixamp Pro 2013 which have done me well for 7 years!
Would ideally like to keep the Mixamp...
*But open to suggestions against and alternatives.*
I’m so used to the Mixamps surround sound for directional cues and footstep whoring, I’d be worried to lose it.

Thanks in advance to any advice and suggestions.


----------



## danterikxx

aidylennox said:


> Another newbie
> Thank you for the wealth of information here!
> 
> I’m looking for recommendations on new headphones...
> ...



Competitive.... 

Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro or 880 
Sennheiser HD 560s 

One of these will do


----------



## aidylennox

danterikxx said:


> Competitive....
> 
> Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro or 880
> Sennheiser HD 560s
> ...



Awesome, will look into these.
All good with the mixamp pro?


----------



## danterikxx (Nov 24, 2020)

aidylennox said:


> Awesome, will look into these.
> All good with the mixamp pro?



It works with Ps5 

It only lacks mixing. For that you'll need a HDMI splitter 

As for power, i dont know. But the 560s will require less power to drive them


----------



## aidylennox

danterikxx said:


> Does it work with the PS5?
> 
> I don't know what kind of power output it has



Yes works as before with PS4 - but running optical to TV.

*Power Output *70mW 32ohm per channel


----------



## danterikxx

aidylennox said:


> Yes works as before with PS4 - but running optical to TV.
> 
> *Power Output *70mW 32ohm per channel


Edited above 

I say buy the headphones and see how it works


----------



## aidylennox

danterikxx said:


> It only lacks mixing. For that you'll need a HDMI splitter



Just to clarify - I have full control of mixing game/chat audio.
Running usb to ps5 and optical to tv.

Wouldn’t think that would change with a new set of headphones? Or will it if I add mic?


----------



## danterikxx

aidylennox said:


> Just to clarify - I have full control of mixing game/chat audio.
> Running usb to ps5 and optical to tv.
> 
> Wouldn’t think that would change with a new set of headphones? Or will it if I add mic?



Oh ok, i thought you wanted to connect to the PS5. Nevermind then 

It should work the same as before


----------



## UrsusMajor

aidylennox said:


> Awesome, will look into these.
> All good with the mixamp pro?


In all honesty I think the 3D audio on PS5 might have the edge. I've been testing 3D audio vs Dolby headphone (mixamp tr) for the past week. 
Been testing on BOCW and MW. Surprised to find the positional cues were accurate on MW, was expecting it to sound pretty much stereo. On BOCW I've found positional accuracy with tempest to be on par with DH with the added benefit of vertical information.

One difference I've found is the dynamic range seems reduced with Tempest cf Dolby headphone. This was particularly apparent with MW, it was slightly easier to discern footsteps, whereas with the mixamp other sounds would mask footsteps more easily


----------



## aidylennox

UrsusMajor said:


> In all honesty I think the 3D audio on PS5 might have the edge. I've been testing 3D audio vs Dolby headphone (mixamp tr) for the past week.
> Been testing on BOCW and MW. Surprised to find the positional cues were accurate on MW, was expecting it to sound pretty much stereo. On BOCW I've found positional accuracy with tempest to be on par with DH with the added benefit of vertical information.
> 
> One difference I've found is the dynamic range seems reduced with Tempest cf Dolby headphone. This was particularly apparent with MW, it was slightly easier to discern footsteps, whereas with the mixamp other sounds would mask footsteps more easily



This is great news, I hope it continues to be updated and become the standard.
As of right now I guess I’m lucky to have both.

My follow up question would be;
Will this affect my choice in headphones?
Is there a recommendation that would work well with both the mixamp and Tempest?
What is the best way to utilise Tempest? Through the controller? Or USB?
It is unfortunate that I cannot simply turn off ‘Dolby’ on the mixamp and turn on 3D audio (the option is greyed out - maybe an update soon to come).


----------



## aidylennox

Would the HD 599 SE be a good choice?
Currently £99 + free delivery on Amazon.
Would the mixamp 2013 power these (would the controller also?) 
Thanks!


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

@MLE - You said the G6 and HD6xx works but does not have much (or any) headroom.   I have the HD 660s which has a lower ohm (150).  Do you think it would be a good match with the G6 without adding an additional amp?


----------



## Busterofwar

Does the Penrose on PS5 suffer from low volume issues like other USB devices? The Pulse 3D for example was way too quiet for me and was immediately sold to a friend.


----------



## Chastity

Galaxy Drifter said:


> @MLE - You said the G6 and HD6xx works but does not have much (or any) headroom.   I have the HD 660s which has a lower ohm (150).  Do you think it would be a good match with the G6 without adding an additional amp?


The lower impedance will match better with the G6.


----------



## Chastity

https://dekoniaudio.com/product-category/b-stock/

40% off B-stock ear pads.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Galaxy Drifter said:


> @MLE - You said the G6 and HD6xx works but does not have much (or any) headroom.   I have the HD 660s which has a lower ohm (150).  Do you think it would be a good match with the G6 without adding an additional amp?


A lot of modern smart phones should decently drive 150-Ohm headphones.
And the Creative G6 should offer a more powerful headphone amplifier.


----------



## aidylennox

Any recommendations on the list below, with revised UK prices?
FPS focused running through a Mixamp Pro 2013 on PS5
Thanks in advance!


AD500x 

£50 from eBay ‘new’ 

Mic options? Only modmic @ £100?

Total £150



HD599 EQed 

Special Edition £99 on Amazon

Boompro mic £28


Total £170



Game One  

£159 Amazon 



SHP9500

£64 eBay ‘new’

Boompro mic £28

Total £92


----------



## danterikxx

aidylennox said:


> Any recommendations on the list below, with revised UK prices?
> FPS focused running through a Mixamp Pro 2013 on PS5
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> ...


I have the 599 and I like it 

Easy to listen and very comfy


----------



## apaar123

I will be playing apex,overwatch,six siege,tarkarov and battlefield . Which headphones purely for these games is the best? Is dt1990 a overkill for them? Or is dt880 600ohm or sennheiser hd58x will be a good choice.


----------



## kadinh (Nov 25, 2020)

If the Mobius was the same price as the Penrose, would it be "better" to buy the Mobius for the additional features or just stick with the newer Penrose?

EDIT: regarding the PS5 and Tempest 3D


----------



## PurpleAngel

apaar123 said:


> I will be playing apex,overwatch,six siege,tarkarov and battlefield . Which headphones purely for these games is the best? Is dt1990 a overkill for them? Or is dt880 600ohm or sennheiser hd58x will be a good choice.


600-Ohm headphones are just not that practical, for most people.
Check out the Soundmagic HP200 headphones.


----------



## apaar123

PurpleAngel said:


> 600-Ohm headphones are just not that practical, for most people.
> Check out the Soundmagic HP200 headphones.


i will be buying a schiit asgard 3 as my amp


----------



## Rozzko

So,someone try connection to ps5 dual sense 3,5 jack? If it’s any improvement? Better amp? Better sound? Or it’s again trash?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2020)

kadinh said:


> If the Mobius was the same price as the Penrose, would it be "better" to buy the Mobius for the additional features or just stick with the newer Penrose?
> 
> EDIT: regarding the PS5 and Tempest 3D


Mobius does not work with the PS5. You'd have to attach it via Aux only. Not wireless. So for PS5, Penrose makes much more sense.


----------



## kadinh

Rozzko said:


> So,someone try connection to ps5 dual sense 3,5 jack? If it’s any improvement? Better amp? Better sound? Or it’s again trash?


I have used the LCD-X, Arya, Sundara, and HD660S and most of the time the volume is too low to be enjoyable. At max volume, the Sundara is the only one that sounds reasonably loud. I never used the 3.5mm with my PS4 bc my headphones sounded better through USB.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Mobius does not work with the PS5. You'd have to attach it via Aux only. Not wireless. So for PS5, Penrose makes much more sense.


Really?! That sucks! I would think it would work through USB from the console to the Mobius like other USB headphones. Glad I checked here first before pulling the trigger on them.


----------



## Lay. (Nov 26, 2020)

Today was the first time that I tried to play CoD Warzone with PS5 and Tempest 3D audio. The setup was PS5 --> USB --> G6 --> optical --> HDV820 --> HD800S

It sounded a bit weird. Maybe it just takes a bit time to get used to it. I will keep testing and double check the G6 settings.

I was able to pinpoint the sounds and there is definitely better height information.

I just feel that the sound is not so clear and the different game sounds blend a bit more compared to the SBX

It was loud enough. PS5 volume about 90%, Game main volume 80% and HDV820 volume 25% was good for me.

Edit: I had something wrong with my G6 settings. Now I have to say that I like the sound. No distortion and definitely loud enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2020)

kadinh said:


> I have used the LCD-X, Arya, Sundara, and HD660S and most of the time the volume is too low to be enjoyable. At max volume, the Sundara is the only one that sounds reasonably loud. I never used the 3.5mm with my PS4 bc my headphones sounded better through USB.
> 
> 
> Really?! That sucks! I would think it would work through USB from the console to the Mobius like other USB headphones. Glad I checked here first before pulling the trigger on them.


It's because ps5 didn't support UAC2 devices, only UAC1 and whatever Sony allows.

And yeah, Tempest 3D absolutely takes some time to get used to compared to things like SBX. Give it time.

Kinda like how stereo players need time to get used to VSS, lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ok so I'm retesting the PS5 with the G6. At high volume, with nothing playing, the G6 is quite hissy on either usb mode, or as an amp through the controller.

That's bad news, as we're gonna be  dealing with some noise floor.

I'll try through the hdmi out/tv optical.


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's because ps5 didn't support UAC2 devices, only UAC1 and whatever Sony allows.
> 
> And yeah, Tempest 3D absolutely takes some time to get used to compared to things like SBX. Give it time.
> 
> Kinda like how stereo players need time to get used to VSS, lol.


I didn’t even think that the Mobius was UAC2.......
If they ever enable 3D audio over HDMI and UAC2 through an update it would make a ton of people very happy.


----------



## AppleheadMay

kadinh said:


> I have used the LCD-X, Arya, Sundara, and HD660S and most of the time the volume is too low to be enjoyable. At max volume, the Sundara is the only one that sounds reasonably loud. I never used the 3.5mm with my PS4 bc my headphones sounded better through USB.



Same experience here, the amp in the PS5 controller is pretty weak.
I use a portable amp between the controller and headphones.
I must say the output of an Xbox controller is much louder.


----------



## platypusnom

MLE would you mind posting your G6 settings? Just picked one up and was curious what you use in terms of profile.


----------



## PurpleAngel

apaar123 said:


> i will be buying a schiit asgard 3 as my amp


I own the DT880 600-Ohm and have had no reason to use it for years.
Soundmagic HP200 is like a combo of the DT880/DT990, I prefer the HP200 over the DT880/DT990.
I would try and talk you into the Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads, it's my preferred setup.


----------



## Zachik

AppleheadMay said:


> I must say the output of an Xbox controller is much louder.


Which headphones have you tested, that can be driven straight out of the XBOX controller, with no need for an amp?
If I ever manage to get my hands on an XBOX, I will need headphones for my son, so I can keep my sanity while he's playing...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2020)

Ok so disregard my earlier statement on G6 and hiss. Honestly, there's some....inconsistency with the ps5, and now it's dead silent as it should be. I don't know what it is about this system, but it's all over the place.

Also, unfortunately, 3D audio is a bit...effed especially in the bass, where it sounds like a distorted, crunchy mess when things like explosions occur.

I'll still be using it because of positional advantages, but if you have VSS...just go for that. 3D audio needs a fix asap. Don't judge your headphones based on how 3D audio sounds, especially in bassy explosions.




platypusnom said:


> MLE would you mind posting your G6 settings? Just picked one up and was curious what you use in terms of profile.




I leave all the enhancements off. I only turn on SBX at 100% surround, and make sure the device is at 7.1. Disable everything else.


----------



## platypusnom

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I leave all the enhancements off. I only turn on SBX at 100% surround, and make sure the device is at 7.1. Disable everything else.


Thank you! So when you were testing out Tempest you had scout/SBX off? Since there's no direct mode support on console is the G6 effectively just a DAC with no enhancements at that point?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Well, you can still toggle SBX on the G6 through usb. Though you wouldn't want to as it's just expanding stereo.


----------



## Chastity

I saw this on Reddit and I thought I'd share:



> *Guide: How to get your DAC to work on PS5*
> 
> The PS5 as we know it supports only UAC1.0 (USB Audio Class 1.0), a standard dating back over 20 years. It's specifications are lower in bit and hz as compared to UAC2.0; modern DACs such as the ones from Schiit and others follow the newer specification. That's why they don't work on the PS5 through USB.
> Although you can split the audio from HDMI and produce an optical/digital signal, you won't be able to use the 3D audio from the Tempest Engine as of now; it is only available through USB audio devices such as arctis 7p, the pulse 3d etc, which all use UAC1.0 and the controller.
> ...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 25, 2020)

I've been doing something similar with the Xonar U3 or G6 optical out to Modi 3 and Magni 3.

Still, a very nice find for those without uac1 devices that can output optical audio.

For $5-$15 it's an absolute no brainer.


----------



## Busterofwar

Is there a better option than the G6 if you want VSS instead of 3D audio on PS5? Can you get 7.1 SBX without having to go optical to the TV? And does the G6 work well on PS5 for movies or music?


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've been doing something similar with the Xonar U3 or G6 optical out to Modi 3 and Magni 3.
> 
> Still, a very nice find for those without uac1 devices that can output optical audio.
> 
> For $5-$15 it's an absolute no brainer.


Will the G6 output to both the headphone jack and the optical out or are they mutually exclusive?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Busterofwar said:


> Is there a better option than the G6 if you want VSS instead of 3D audio on PS5? Can you get 7.1 SBX without having to go optical to the TV? And does the G6 work well on PS5 for movies or music?



Hmm, at the moment, not any I can think of.

As long as a movie is outputting proper Dolby Digital and the TV can passthrough that through optical, you should be fine.

I would not use SBX for music. Unless the music is encoded in Dolby D.




Galaxy Drifter said:


> Will the G6 output to both the headphone jack and the optical out or are they mutually exclusive?



Only one at a time, IIRC. I'll have to reconfirm when I get home, but I'm 99.9% sure you have to decide on whether to send audio to headphones or output to either of analog out or digital out.


----------



## PlayStationPauly

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hmm, at the moment, not any I can think of.
> 
> As long as a movie is outputting proper Dolby Digital and the TV can passthrough that through optical, you should be fine.
> 
> ...



Thoughts on the Schiit Asgard 3 with DAC module to pair with G6 (using HD6XX) instead of the Modi / Magni combo? I missed a sweet deal on eBay the other day (Asgard3), still salty I passed on it


----------



## Rozzko

Rozzko said:


> So,someone try connection to ps5 dual sense? If it’s any improvement? Better amp? Better sound? Or it’s again trash?


----------



## danterikxx

Should be trash 

I would avoid it


----------



## Oscillus

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Mobius does not work with the PS5. You'd have to attach it via Aux only. Not wireless. So for PS5, Penrose makes much more sense.


That's just not true though, my Mobius works fine in USB mode. Make sure you have the headphone in 2channel mode, else it doesn't work!


----------



## Alu

Sorry to interrupt the current conversation, but I just wanted to ask about the Denon 7000 and their isolation specifically. 

I know MLE has mentioned that they virtually have none, but I'm wondering whether they still offer more of an isolation than a fully open back HP.
I'm asking because my current GPU is emitting a very slight coil whine, barely noticeable, (I've also done some undervolting to help reduce it a bit) but still there, and due to everything else being quiet I almost try to listen out for it with my OCD about a perfectly silent background.

Would the d7000 offer enough isolation to reduce noises like that? Comparable to very low fan noise I suppose.

Also great guide by the way, really appreciated.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 26, 2020)

Yes, even those it's not great at isolation, it will still block out some noise, especially when you're listening to something.



PlayStationPauly said:


> Thoughts on the Schiit Asgard 3 with DAC module to pair with G6 (using HD6XX) instead of the Modi / Magni combo? I missed a sweet deal on eBay the other day (Asgard3), still salty I passed on it


Well the DAC module is USB only, so there's no way to get digital signal from the G6 to the Asgard. You'll have to use the G6 as the dac.




Oscillus said:


> That's just not true though, my Mobius works fine in USB mode. Make sure you have the headphone in 2channel mode, else it doesn't work!


Did that, still nothing, so I can't say something works when for me it doesn't work at all. Don't know what else to tell you. With that level of inconsistency, I'd rather be safe in not recommending people buy a Mobius for the PS5. If you have one, definitely check and see, but YMMV.


----------



## Oscillus

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well the DAC module is USB only, so there's no way to get digital signal from the G6 to the Asgard. You'll have to use the G6 as the dac.
> 
> 
> 
> Did that, still nothing, so I can't say something works when for me it doesn't work at all. Don't know what else to tell you. With that level of inconsistency, I'd rather be safe in not recommending people buy a Mobius for the PS5. If you have one, definitely check and see, but YMMV.


Yeah that’s why I replied actually, I have a PS5 here with a Mobius connected to it in USB mode with the headset in 2channel mode (the normal one, not high fidelity 2ch. You probably tried it this way already but still wanted to add that) and for me it works.

I agree you can’t recommend something that doesn’t work for you though but chiming in here with a working one that if you have one laying around, it could work. YMMV indeed.


----------



## mindbomb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Also, unfortunately, 3D audio is a bit...effed especially in the bass, where it sounds like a distorted, crunchy mess when things like explosions occur.



Have you checked this with more sensitive headphones and lower ps5 system volume?


----------



## Lay.

I had something wrong with my G6 settings. Now I have to say that I like the sound. No distortion and definitely loud enough.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Zachik said:


> Which headphones have you tested, that can be driven straight out of the XBOX controller, with no need for an amp?
> If I ever manage to get my hands on an XBOX, I will need headphones for my son, so I can keep my sanity while he's playing...



Sorry for the late reply, wanted to test a few phones with both controllers before I answered.

Audeze LCD-GX, Drop Panda, Sennheiser HD 660 S (or HD58X if you want, basically the same phones) and HD 598 Cs: all too loud with the XsX controller at full power, just ok with the PS5 controller.
AKG K7XX, Sennheiser HD 600, 650, 800 S and 820: loud enough with the XsX controller, too quiet with the PS5 controller.

Keep in mind that I'm not talking about quality amplification here, you can't expect of either controllers to have serious amps in them, the XsX controller has just more power or higher gain.
I much prefer the controller connected to my portable amp. In the case of the PS5 I connect the amp to the controller, for the XsX I connect the amp via optical to the TV.
The amp I use is the iFi iDSD Micro BL. Not the cheapest little thing but it does have analog, optical, coax and USB inputs as well as 4W of power.

One more word on the Sony wireless headphones for PS: I used to have the Platinum Wireless and that thing had really weak power. I read something (or saw a video) about the 3D Pulse this week which said exactly the same.
Which is why I bought the Penroses for my consoles as wireless solutions.


----------



## Zachik

AppleheadMay said:


> Sorry for the late reply, wanted to test a few phones with both controllers before I answered.


Thanks!!!


----------



## Rozzko

AppleheadMay said:


> Sorry for the late reply, wanted to test a few phones with both controllers before I answered.
> 
> Audeze LCD-GX, Drop Panda, Sennheiser HD 660 S (or HD58X if you want, basically the same phones) and HD 598 Cs: all too loud with the XsX controller at full power, just ok with the PS5 controller.
> AKG K7XX, Sennheiser HD 600, 650, 800 S and 820: loud enough with the XsX controller, too quiet with the PS5 controller.
> ...


Thanks and what about quality sod sound by connecting with controller ps5? I want new headphones for ps5 and while Penrose not available now a chose between MEZE 99 (connection to controller ps5) and Sony 3D pulse. What will be better in sound quality? I don’t have external amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 26, 2020)

Guys just wanted to update that the 3D audio issue seems to be mainly Black Ops. That game is piss poor for bass. Like awful and really highlights the problem.

I've played Spiderman a bit yesterday and didn't notice the problem once. But I don't think Spiderman Remastered (not Miles Morales yet) uses 3D audio aside from a generic virtual surround for it, so it may not be using what causes the issue with the bass. I'll need much more testing.



Oscillus said:


> That's just not true though, my Mobius works fine in USB mode. Make sure you have the headphone in 2channel mode, else it doesn't work!



Ok so for some STUPID reason, now the Mobius IS working on the ps5. I promise you I did set it to 2ch last time and the ps5 wouldn't pick it up. But now it has no issue.

I do hear faint noise, and there isn't a large amount of volume headroom, so not sure it's ideal, but if you happen to own the Mobius, then I definitely recommend trying it out on PS5.

As for why it didn't work before, I seriously don't know.



mindbomb said:


> Have you checked this with more sensitive headphones and lower ps5 system volume?


I did try with my PortaPros. I didn't check to see if it's a sys volume thing. I'll test that out. 

edit: Even at lower volume, can still hear the distortion.

Omg triple post. I'm ashamed. Sorry guys.


----------



## Metsuki

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys just wanted to update that the 3D audio issue seems to be mainly Black Ops. That game is piss poor for bass. Like awful and really highlights the problem.
> 
> I've played Spiderman a bit yesterday and didn't notice the problem once. But I don't think Spiderman Remastered (not Miles Morales yet) uses 3D audio aside from a generic virtual surround for it, so it may not be using what causes the issue with the bass. I'll need much more testing.


yep, this was my experience too.


----------



## Graymare

Hi guy’s, I was told to post in this thread for recommendations on a good FPS headset for the Ps5. My budget is $650 or less and it doesn’t require to come with a mic. Thanks for your time.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Graymare said:


> Hi guy’s, I was told to post in this thread for recommendations on a good FPS headset for the Ps5. My budget is $650 or less and it doesn’t require to come with a mic. Thanks for your time.


Headsets come with mics, so we are assuming your looking into getting headphones for PS5 gaming.
Audio Technica ATH-AD700X, way under your budget.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

Graymare said:


> Hi guy’s, I was told to post in this thread for recommendations on a good FPS headset for the Ps5. My budget is $650 or less and it doesn’t require to come with a mic. Thanks for your time.


I just ordered Sennheiser HD 660s + Creative G6 DAC.   Got both on sale for about $510 before tax.   Don't have the DAC yet, but I think the headphones are near the best you can get for positional clarity in games.


----------



## Graymare

Galaxy Drifter said:


> I just ordered Sennheiser HD 660s + Creative G6 DAC.   Got both on sale for about $510 before tax.   Don't have the DAC yet, but I think the headphones are near the best you can get for positional clarity in games.


I actually heard about those, which site did you buy them on? The sennheiser site is still saying it’s on back order. Since I need the DAC with them, do you think I can still play my Ps5 from my couch?


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

I got everything from Amazon.   The Sennheisers were on a one day sale this last Monday for $380.   But I expect they may be on sale again tomorrow for black Friday.
The G6 is currently on sale for $130.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Graymare said:


> I actually heard about those, which site did you buy them on? The sennheiser site is still saying it’s on back order. Since I need the DAC with them, do you think I can still play my Ps5 from my couch?



Some sites here in Europe offer BF deals on the HD660S, probably some deals will show up today in the US today as well.
But if you really want a deal get the Drop HD58X Jubilee, currently at $150 and shipping December 2. They're basically the same headphones as the HD660S (just like the 650 and 6XX).
I had both side by side and if there was a slight difference it as good as unnoticeable.


----------



## illram

So, Super X-Fi added the HiFiMan 4xx to their supported headphone list. I tried it out with my 400i (basically same cans, different pads) and they sound friggin amazing. This headphone (and Super X-Fi) still continues to impress me.

I will continue to sing this little device's praises. Love it. Sadly unless there is such a thing as an HDMI extractor with a USB output this thing will always be PC only.... (since consoles will never output surround PCM over USB...sadface)


----------



## AppleheadMay

illram said:


> So, Super X-Fi added the HiFiMan 4xx to their supported headphone list. I tried it out with my 400i (basically same cans, different pads) and they sound friggin amazing. This headphone (and Super X-Fi) still continues to impress me.
> 
> I will continue to sing this little device's praises. Love it. Sadly unless there is such a thing as an HDMI extractor with a USB output this thing will always be PC only.... (since consoles will never output surround PCM over USB...sadface)



Have been tempted to buy the SXFI amp again but was actually waiting for the SXFI Carrier as I could use a soundbar and it has SXFI for headphones built in.
Haven't seen anymore news about the Carrier since early this year though.

I do wonder if the SXFI Theater wireless dongle would work with PS5 or XsX.

Just ordered it at about half the regular price.


----------



## Oscillus

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ok so for some STUPID reason, now the Mobius IS working on the ps5. I promise you I did set it to 2ch last time and the ps5 wouldn't pick it up. But now it has no issue.
> 
> I do hear faint noise, and there isn't a large amount of volume headroom, so not sure it's ideal, but if you happen to own the Mobius, then I definitely recommend trying it out on PS5.
> 
> As for why it didn't work before, I seriously don't know.


Nice! Glad it works again for you now then


----------



## ArchDash (Nov 27, 2020)

What would you guys recommend for around 180-240 EUR??

It would be always for PC, with fun gaming (MMOs), inmersion and good music quality, while being confortable.

Idk much about this but I have seen *MMX300* (buy without amp),* DT880 Pro* (price would allow buying amp like *soundblaster g6*), *HyperX Orbit, Sennheiser Game One *or* AKG K-712 Pro*.
Feel free to recommend me another if they suit best the needs. Thanks.


----------



## idsyphe

ArchDash said:


> What would you guys recommend for around 180-240 EUR??
> 
> It would be always for PC, with fun gaming (MMOs), inmersion and good music quality, while being confortable.
> 
> ...



Have you looked at the Sennheiser HD560s? Either that or the Beyerdynamic TYGR300R if you wanted to save some Euro's, both excellent options for gaming


----------



## WhiteHartMart

idsyphe said:


> Have you looked at the Sennheiser HD560s? Either that or the Beyerdynamic TYGR300R if you wanted to save some Euro's, both excellent options for gaming



Would vote for the Tygr also - incredibly comfortable, great for gaming and can do a job for music listening also.  Plus, easy to drive. If you don't need a mic they offer fantastic value imho.


----------



## ArchDash (Nov 27, 2020)

The problem is that I don't have a mic:

- The *TYGR300R* are at around *160 *(with shipping costs) eur, and the *HD600s* at *190*. I would need to buy a *mod mic* which would rise the price to *around 200 Eur*.

- In the 200 price tag it is the *DT 770/880 pro *with a decent amp (130+80). Despite no mic it seems to be the everyone's favourite.

- Looking a the *game one* they are discounted at *160*. And the *MMX 300* which are at* 220 eur*. The *Orbit *are at *270,* too expensive but I have heard many good things about the magnetic drivers.


However I don't know how they all compare to each other. What do you think is the best for price?


----------



## PS5head

Hello,

I’m a new member and have been reading the forum. I am very impressed with all the useful information here! I am getting a ps5 and eventually want to upgrade my audio equipment.
I have a mod mic and decent headphones I like that is a wired 3.5mm set.

I am wondering, would it be terrible to use a usb dongle like the ugreen USB adapter to get 3D audio and the mic inputs from one USB port? The headphones are 48 ohm. I was thinking about using this until finding a better solution. I would eventually like to get a nice set of headphones that would need a dac/amp setup, but want to wait until either Sony sorts out the hdmi pass through or supports uac2.

In the meantime, thanks for any advice you have to offer!


----------



## idsyphe

ArchDash said:


> The problem is that I don't have a mic:
> 
> - The *TYGR300R* are at around *160 *(with shipping costs) eur, and the *HD600s* at *190*. I would need to buy a *mod mic* which would rise the price to *around 200 Eur*.
> 
> ...



Would you prefer open back or closed headphones? You're mentioning a mix of both, but DT770/MMX300 will give you a wildly different experience to say the HD600 or DT880. If you are just concerned about quality, you would want to pick an open back, as they will sound better for the price, but if you want to have sound isolation, then you will want a closed back, and there are far fewer quality closed back options on the market (DT770 being one of the more popular options).


----------



## idsyphe

PS5head said:


> Hello,
> 
> I’m a new member and have been reading the forum. I am very impressed with all the useful information here! I am getting a ps5 and eventually want to upgrade my audio equipment.
> I have a mod mic and decent headphones I like that is a wired 3.5mm set.
> ...



As long as the USB adapter is supported, I can't imagine it will disappoint you, the main problem is the signal won't be as clean, and you will likely have hissing or some other feedback, but until you try something of higher quality, you would most likely be perfectly happy with it.

For example I'm double-amping for my XSX, it's outputting over analog (through my monitor) to a DSS2 (really cheap gaming amp at this point), and to be honest this is working perfectly fine for me, I'm still on the lookout for a better and more native solution, but until I find one, I can't find fault with this.


----------



## ArchDash

idsyphe said:


> Would you prefer open back or closed headphones? You're mentioning a mix of both, but DT770/MMX300 will give you a wildly different experience to say the HD600 or DT880. If you are just concerned about quality, you would want to pick an open back, as they will sound better for the price, but if you want to have sound isolation, then you will want a closed back, and there are far fewer quality closed back options on the market (DT770 being one of the more popular options).



Tbh I am more leaned towards closed back, but that's not an important factor. For me, important factors are sound quality, game inmersion and confort.

Which of the three *DT 770/880/990 PRO* would you recommend for gaming/music? I know the difference is on the closed/semi-open/open back but still don't know which sound profile is better. And... more importantly: *Do I really need an amp if I am using it for PC?*

I also require a mic, and if I have to get an amp as well it might become too expensive. If this is the case, I think I'll go for the *Sennheiser Game One* which I think have good sound and mic, which at 150 eur is pretty ok.

I know headsets are not the most optimal regarding sound quality, but feel free to recommend!! (150-220 eur max)


----------



## illram

AppleheadMay said:


> Have been tempted to buy the SXFI amp again but was actually waiting for the SXFI Carrier as I could use a soundbar and it has SXFI for headphones built in.
> Haven't seen anymore news about the Carrier since early this year though.
> 
> I do wonder if the SXFI Theater wireless dongle would work with PS5 or XsX.
> ...



Ooooh didn't know about the Carrier. Looks interesting. I presume SX-Fi on the Carrier is still 7.1 though, and not a room speaker Atmos virtualization ala what the Realiser does? Still great if/when we get a SX-Fi device that can take HDMI in for 7.1 PCM, as that would enable Xbox support finally. I personally was waiting for the SXFI TV since I don't need a soundbar.

I think the wireless dongle works on anything that can do 5.1 or 7.1 PCM via USB.


----------



## Chastity

ArchDash said:


> Tbh I am more leaned towards closed back, but that's not an important factor. For me, important factors are sound quality, game inmersion and confort.
> 
> Which of the three *DT 770/880/990 PRO* would you recommend for gaming/music? I know the difference is on the closed/semi-open/open back but still don't know which sound profile is better. And... more importantly: *Do I really need an amp if I am using it for PC?*
> 
> ...


of the DT770/880/990, I'd recommend the 880.  These are semi-open, so you get some leakage, but not bad.  Also, they breathe so comfy for long sessions.

You can add a Antlion modmic to any headphone.  I use one on a set of DT-1990.  Or get a desk mic.

If you can get a good price on the MMX300, then that'll work.  Think of it as a DT-770 with a mic.  The Tygr 300R + modmic would be nice too.


----------



## AppleheadMay (Nov 27, 2020)

Just found the "Sound Blaster Command" software got recently updated to include the G6, while the "Sound Blaster Connect" software is well over a year old.

Does anyone use "Command" instead of "Connect" for their G6?
And does it also allow VSS to pass through via the optical out?

https://support.creative.com/produc...me=external+sound+cards&catname=Sound+Blaster


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like expected....my KSC35 wireless is RIP. Lost one side of audio. Whelp...so typical. Guess I better get these modded with mmcx connectors as well.


----------



## Fegefeuer

SB Command does VSS over optical too. No worries.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Fegefeuer said:


> SB Command does VSS over optical too. No worries.



Thanks, will install SB command then as from what I could gather it replaces SB Connect.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Picked up a cheap G3 to use on my PS5 but it’ll be going straight back. USB output on the console must be really weak as I can get more volume via the Dualsense than the G3 (using PC38x or Tygr 300r) Plus mic quality takes a hit compared to the controller 

Wish Sony hadn’t crippled using external audio devices so much. Will be counting on the Penrose now (hoping volume will be sufficient!?).


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

WhiteHartMart said:


> Picked up a cheap G3 to use on my PS5 but it’ll be going straight back. USB output on the console must be really weak as I can get more volume via the Dualsense than the G3 (using PC38x or Tygr 300r) Plus mic quality takes a hit compared to the controller
> 
> Wish Sony hadn’t crippled using external audio devices so much. Will be counting on the Penrose now (hoping volume will be sufficient!?).


If I remember correctly, the DAC that came with the Artcis Wireless Pro had a menu option to override the volume limiter.   Though I am not sure this is related to your PS5 limited volume.   I have the G6 driving HD 660s on the PS5 and am happy with the volume.


----------



## fbang

Glad I found that thread as I've been going insane trying to find information for the best headphones solution for the PS5.  I'm in the same boat as a couple of people here currently using optical passthrough from the TV to an external device where I plug headphones.

My current setup is an old Harman Kardon AVR144 receiver (which does an excellent VSS through "Dolby Headphone") where I plug in my BeyerDynamics DT 770 . 
 But this setup was miracuslously found after trying about 20 pairs of gaming headset which honestly never sounded as good.
  ( I would say that the best headset I've tried so far was the Astro A50 (gen 4) but as I understand it, the "Dolby Headphone" it uses had a very annoying metallic sounding VSS. The Harman Kardon receiver I have is from 2006 and doesn't have that updated bad sound. )

But now, I was tempted to upgrade the receiver to a newer DAC (Soundblaster for example)  but realized that I have these three problems:

- I'm playing from my couch and since these DAC don't have a remote, I would need to have a long wire (can't believe they don't consider couch players!)
- The PS5 3D Audio doesn't work through the optical (I would prefer this solution since I'm also using a seperate 4K Player using the same passthrough)
- I can't count!

So I'm not sure what my options are for the moment. Honestly, I'm not even sure the PS Tempest is worth it. Yesterday I bought the Steelseries Arctis 7P to test things out. Although they are considered among the best gaming headphones, I though the sound was pretty poor compared to my setup. 

Only Demon Souls was a slight notch better at positioning sounds vs my receiver's VSS. For all the other games I've tried, the sound felt not "spaced enough" or muddy. (I've tried both Spider-Man, Call of Duty Cold War, Battlefield 1 and 5).

Maybe I'm too used to VSS.

Thoughts?


----------



## Lay. (Nov 28, 2020)

With PS5 I honestly don't think there is anything missing when using G6 (USB) combined with powerful DAC/AMP that has optical input. I like the tempest 3D audio after using VSS more than 10 years.

G6 might be good enough with many headphones but I prefer better AMP with HD800S. Nobody has complained the mic sound quality either.


----------



## fbang

Lay. said:


> With PS5 I honestly don't think there is anything missing when using G6 (USB) combined with powerful DAC/AMP that has optical input. I like the tempest 3D audio after using VSS more than 10 years.
> 
> G6 might be good enough with many headphones but I prefer better AMP with HD800S. Nobody has complained the mic sound quality either.



Is the output power of the G6 enough to drive a 80ohm headset? And is there any device known to man that I can add to this to control the volume remotely from my couch? (I guess I could do it from the PS5's settings)


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> Is the output power of the G6 enough to drive a 80ohm headset? And is there any device known to man that I can add to this to control the volume remotely from my couch? (I guess I could do it from the PS5's settings)



Long USB cable to the G6 or long optical cable from G6 to a portable amp?


----------



## Lay.

fbang said:


> Is the output power of the G6 enough to drive a 80ohm headset? And is there any device known to man that I can add to this to control the volume remotely from my couch? (I guess I could do it from the PS5's settings)



Galaxy Drifter just said that G6 can drive 150ohm HD660S loud enough on PS5 so I would think so. I tested G6 and HD660S with PS4 (and it was good) but I can't test them now. My other headphones are 50km away from here. 

And the volume control. Look what AppleheadMay said. Long USB cable, optical cable or PS5 settings. I don't know how the PS5 remote control volume up and down works while playing games but it just might be on solution. Somebody with the remote could try if it works while gaming. 

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/accessories/media-remote/


----------



## lippi

Im tempted to cancel my penrose order and just try some 32ohm dt880s into the controller and attach a mic. Its cheaper and i can use them on my phone for music. Anyone tried this yet? Or has any thoughts on whether the controller and 32ohm beyers will be decent or not?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Both PS5 and XsX controllers will deliver sound through headphones, the XsX one will be louder.
But you can't expect the amps provided in a $60 controller to be decent, they are what they are, they provide sound in an affordable way.
Also, volume control doesn't give you much control, it goes a lot louder or a lot more silent very fast

Adding an amp between the controller (portable or desktop depending on your setup and needs) will not only give you more power to drive better headphones and drive your headphones better, you will have improvements like more impactful bass, better positioning and retrieval of detail, clarity, etc .... And more granular volume control.
I'm not playing the audiophile here, it's just something that is immediately noticeable, it's a totally different experience.
And a lot will depend on the amp as well though I suspect a lot of portable amps will already do the job well.
A dac/amp expands your options even further like I use it with the XsX and optical, PS5 will maybe allow that via USB later

Keep in mind there are other solutions as well: dedicated wireless headsets (I suspect Penrose to be at the top of them whih is why I ordered those), adding a G6 like MLE described. Maybe the SXFI Amp will work as well, I can test that when mine comes in.

As for different headphones: not only the impedance is important, also the sensitivity. Take the $7000 Susvara for example: only 60 ohm but I'm pretty sure you won't get much volume out of those with you controller, people drive them out of the speaker outputs 10W Class A tube amps to sound good.

So yes, you will get sound out of your controller with any headphone but it won't be good. It's a budget solution but it works.


----------



## lippi

AppleheadMay said:


> Both PS5 and XsX controllers will deliver sound through headphones, the XsX one will be louder.
> But you can't expect the amps provided in a $60 controller to be decent, they are what they are, they provide sound in an affordable way.
> Also, volume control doesn't give you much control, it goes a lot louder or a lot more silent very fast
> 
> ...


Ok thanks for the reply. So last question! I could get a g6 and perhaps beyerdynamic 880/990s with higher impedence, how do we feel these would compare with the penrose. Its wireless convenience vs audio quality, particularly thinking spatial awareness for gaming and for listening to music.


----------



## idsyphe

Just read my monitor manual and realized the 3.5mm output is a line level output (Dell U3219Q), which explains why I don't get any hiss when connected to my amp, so for those with a XSX connected to a PC monitor, worth checking if your monitor has a line out you can use, as you can then output Atmos Headphone or DTS-X Headpone over HDMI, and use whatever amp you like (obviously just won't get a mic input from this).


----------



## deadchip12

Why is this man @Mad Lust Envy still not getting a 560s for reviewing @Sennheiser? Please give him one.


----------



## tglodjo

Does anyone know if the G6 on PS5 allows game-chat mix _without_ optical? That's my only hang up. The system game-chat balance is still terrible. Are there any other options that don't require optical that have good game-chat balance (e.g. Penrose, Pulse 3D)?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

tglodjo said:


> Does anyone know if the G6 on PS5 allows game-chat mix _without_ optical? That's my only hang up. The system game-chat balance is still terrible. Are there any other options that don't require optical that have good game-chat balance (e.g. Penrose, Pulse 3D)?



No it doesn’t. It would need an optical connection to enable it. The Pulse 3D is the only headset I know of currently that offers the game/chat mix on device with PS5?


----------



## aidylennox

Would the G6 be a good upgrade to a 2013 mixamp pro with HD 599’s?

The mic quality with the mixamp is horrendous - distorted even with minimum volume on ps5 settings.


----------



## Rozzko

lippi said:


> Im tempted to cancel my penrose order and just try some 32ohm dt880s into the controller and attach a mic. Its cheaper and i can use them on my phone for music. Anyone tried this yet? Or has any thoughts on whether the controller and 32ohm beyers will be decent or not?


I also interesting in it! I want meze 99 connect to ps5 controller OR buy a Sony platinum headset. What will be better in sound quality?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Rozzko said:


> I also interesting in it! I want meze 99 connect to ps5 controller OR buy a Sony platinum headset. What will be better in sound quality?



Sony Platinum is crap and doesn't go loud at all. I had one.
From what i read 3D Pulse is the same, weak amp.


----------



## Rozzko

Lay. said:


> With PS5 I honestly don't think there is anything missing when using G6 (USB) combined with powerful DAC/AMP that has optical input. I like the tempest 3D audio after using VSS more than 10 years.
> 
> G6 might be good enough with many headphones but I prefer better AMP with HD800S. Nobody has complained the mic sound quality either.


Does ps5 giving tempest 3D audio through G6? Does it work properly? Or G6 give only creative VSS?



AppleheadMay said:


> Sony Platinum is crap and doesn't go loud at all. I had one.
> From what i read 3D Pulse is the same, weak amp.


Thanks. I hope ps5 controller amp can amp headphones like meze 99, because I don’t want to buy another devise like G6


----------



## AppleheadMay

Rozzko said:


> Thanks. I hope ps5 controller amp can amp headphones like meze 99, because I don’t want to buy another devise like G6



I don't know the Meze headphones at all so I can't comment from experience but from their specs I see they have a low impedance and high sensitivity so they should be easy to drive.
That said, the amp in the PS5 controller is a weak amp and goes much less loud than the one in the XsX controller.

In any case you will have sound and if you want to you can add an amp later on.


----------



## Rozzko

AppleheadMay said:


> I don't know the Meze headphones at all so I can't comment from experience but from their specs I see they have a low impedance and high sensitivity so they should be easy to drive.
> That said, the amp in the PS5 controller is a weak amp and goes much less loud than the one in the XsX controller.
> 
> In any case you will have sound and if you want to you can add an amp later on.


Yeah, right.
Thanks


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

Rozzko said:


> Thanks. I hope ps5 controller amp can amp headphones like meze 99, because I don’t want to buy another devise like G6


Be aware that using the controller amp has more compromises than just volume.  You are switching from a lossless USB signal to a Bluetooth compressed wireless signal.  The difference in quality is very noticeable imo.


----------



## Lay.

Rozzko said:


> Does ps5 giving tempest 3D audio through G6? Does it work properly? Or G6 give only creative VSS?



Yes it does and it works properly. You just have to disable VSS from G6 with SB Command software. I played way too many hours of CoD WZ and Cold War Zombies during the weekend and I'm not going back to VSS with PS5. It works and sounds nice.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 29, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> Does ps5 giving tempest 3D audio through G6? Does it work properly? Or G6 give only creative VSS?


You get Tempest 3D with the G6 or any supported usb dac.

You don't want to use Creative's VSS through usb as it'll take a stereo signal as opposed to Dolby, which the VSS needs to correctly well.

Of course, you can use Creative's VSS, if you send HDMI audio to a TV or receiver, and that TV or receiver can send out Dolby Digital through optical to the G6.

As long as you can do that, you can decide between both Tempest 3D or SBX.

The G6's versatility continues to prove why it's a great dac/amp.


----------



## fbang

i have tried plugging my dt770 in the dualsense and although the power output is much better than the DualShock 4, it still sounded compressed and weak.


----------



## Rozzko

Galaxy Drifter said:


> Be aware that using the controller amp has more compromises than just volume.  You are switching from a lossless USB signal to a Bluetooth compressed wireless signal.  The difference in quality is very noticeable imo.


And what about Bluetooth headphones like Audeze Penrose? It’s also compressed?


----------



## Lay. (Nov 29, 2020)

aidylennox said:


> Would the G6 be a good upgrade to a 2013 mixamp pro with HD 599’s?
> 
> The mic quality with the mixamp is horrendous - distorted even with minimum volume on ps5 settings.



I did not have 2013 MixAmp Pro but Astro MixAmp Pro TR. I did not like the sound of VSS with the Pro TR. I heard that 2013 Pro sounded better. More natural sounding.

That said... G6 has better AMP than my MixAmp had and it is more versatile. The mic works just fine with it. The only down side is the game/chat balance control. It was more difficult to use with PS4 and I guess you can't use it with PS5 and Tempest 3D. I find the PS5 system game/chat balance easy to use.

I have HD598's and they do not need a powerful AMP. MixAmp was enough with them although I use them with HDV820 nowadays.


----------



## Rozzko

fbang said:


> i have tried plugging my dt770 in the dualsense and although the power output is much better than the DualShock 4, it still sounded compressed and weak.


Better amp from DualShock 4 but still sound weak ? It’s sad. I hope Sony don’t seat for nothing in term of amp quality in controller for 7 years. Sad. Only way is G6+headphone or Bluetooth headphones with ps5 license like Penrose


----------



## AppleheadMay

Rozzko said:


> And what about Bluetooth headphones like Audeze Penrose? It’s also compressed?



The Penrose connects to the PS5 via a wireless dongle, not Bluetooth.


----------



## fbang

Rozzko said:


> Better amp from DualShock 4 but still sound weak ? It’s sad. I hope Sony don’t seat for nothing in term of amp quality in controller for 7 years. Sad. Only way is G6+headphone or Bluetooth headphones with ps5 license like Penrose


Well it still sound good... but certainly not on par with what these audiophile headphones are supposed to sound like.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 29, 2020)

Lay. said:


> I did not have 2013 MixAmp Pro but Astro MixAmp Pro TR. I did not like the sound of VSS with the Pro TR. I heard that 2013 Pro sounded better. More natural sounding.
> 
> That said... G6 has better AMP than my MixAmp had and it is more versatile. The mic works just fine with it. The only down side is the game/chat balance control. It was more difficult to use with PS4 and I guess you can't use it with PS5 and Tempest 3D. I find the PS5 system game/chat balance easy to use.
> 
> I have HD598's and they do not need a powerful AMP. MixAmp was enough with them although I use them with HDV820 nowadays.


I literally said the G6 DOES work with Tempest 3D like two posts before yours...lol. And like...multiple times in the past few days.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

Rozzko said:


> And what about Bluetooth headphones like Audeze Penrose? It’s also compressed?


While the Penrose does connect to a Bluetooth device, this is a secondary connection.   The main connection is through a USB 2.4Ghz dongle that gets you uncompressed lossless audio.   
But yes, if you use the Bluetooth side to connect to your phone or pc, it would be compressed.


----------



## fbang

Just ordered the G6. Can't wait to compare it with my Dolby Headphone receiver.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

fbang said:


> Just ordered the G6. Can't wait to compare it with my Dolby Headphone receiver.


I still personally prefer Dolby Headphone in terms of positional accuracy and front/back awareness. So don't expect miracles especially if that's what you're used to.


----------



## fbang

I've read quickly through a couple of pages, so Im sorry if this was already asked... But I just want to confirm about pluggin the G6 to the PS5:

- I need to plug both the USB and Optical IN (passthrough from the TV)
- If I want to use the Tempest 3D Audio, I basically use the USB and turn off any processing from the G6.  (selecting the G6 in the output device  of the PS5)
- If I want to use the G6 7.1 VSS, I use the optical IN of the G6 (selecting "TV" in the audio output of the PS5 which will send it to the HMDI and the optical passthrough).

- I also assume that if I need to use the G6 with my standalone 4K player (also coming out through the passthrough) , I will need to leave my PS5 opened to power the G6.

Have I got that right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 29, 2020)

Yes on all counts. You can leave the PS5 in rest mode with the ps5 settings to power usb devices even in rest mode at all times.

PS5 had rest mode issues before, but it's since been patched.


----------



## MikeyMatou

Gone through all the comments since the Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX Review but still can't make my mind up...just seeing if anyone here has advice.

Came from a Sennheiser Game Zero (a few years of usage) to a Hyper X Cloud (Wired Mobius copy). God I loved the fullness, the richer bass, just everything else compared to the Game Zero (but Game Zero was great nonetheless). Mic was pretty eh in comparison though...so soft...Anyhow had to return it due to a technical fault.

Since then I've eyed the *Penrose*. I'm predominantly a PC user, I like the sound of wireless but I also want to sound clear on Discord so I will probably be wired the majority of the time anyway for the mic quality. While games are important to me I guess the real reason I'm using a "gaming" headset is because I need the mic. Otherwise, I'd be more wary about music performance.

Since then other devices have caught my eyes, primarily the *HiFiMAN HE-5XX* and the *Sennheiser HD 6XX* (and attaching a mod mic). I'm unsure how they'll compete to the 100mm planars I so happened to love on the Hyper X Cloud...again that fullness. As all three have in some shape or form been reviewed here, was just wondering if anyone has suggestions as to a path I should follow?


----------



## kadinh

I can now use my Topping E30/L30 with the PS5 through USB and get 3D audio, only cost me $20:

[PS5] ---- USB ---- [THIS] ---- optical ---- [E30] ---- RCA ---- [L30] ---- 1/4" cable ---- Headphones


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You get Tempest 3D with the G6 or any supported usb dac.
> 
> You don't want to use Creative's VSS through usb as it'll take a stereo signal as opposed to Dolby, which the VSS needs to correctly well.
> 
> ...


Can you give me your thoughts on the g6 vs the x3? Currently using the x3 and thinking about swapping it out.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I literally said the G6 DOES work with Tempest 3D like two posts before yours...lol. And like...multiple times in the past few days.



Like I did one post before you. In the message you quoted I just said that you can't use G6 build in game/chat balance control when using Tempest 3D.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> I've read quickly through a couple of pages, so Im sorry if this was already asked... But I just want to confirm about pluggin the G6 to the PS5:
> - I need to plug both the USB and Optical IN (passthrough from the TV)
> - If I want to use the Tempest 3D Audio, I basically use the USB and turn off any processing from the G6.  (selecting the G6 in the output device  of the PS5)
> - If I want to use the G6 7.1 VSS, I use the optical IN of the G6 (selecting "TV" in the audio output of the PS5 which will send it to the HMDI and the optical passthrough).
> ...





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes on all counts. You can leave the PS5 in rest mode with the ps5 settings to power usb devices even in rest mode at all times.
> PS5 had rest mode issues before, but it's since been patched.



Questions:
- I see that way I can connect the PS5 via USB, the XsX via HDMI to TV and from TV to optical in on the G6. From the G6 I can then go optical out to my DAC or DAC/amp.
As long as I leave SBX VSS off, that would give me tempest from PS and DAH/DSTXH from the Xbox. If I want SBX VSS I just press the SBX button on the G6. I can also press and hold to enable direct mode to make sure all SBX VSS is off.
- This would be a one time configuration in the PC to open up the optical input in the mixer and perform some other settings, no need to switch to the PC often to change something on the G6 I would use with my consoles?
- Stupid question I guess: Do I get Tempest audio from all PS games (so is it implemented on the OS level) or only the ones that were created with Tempest audio.


----------



## jessjj

MikeyMatou said:


> Gone through all the comments since the Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX Review but still can't make my mind up...just seeing if anyone here has advice.
> 
> Came from a Sennheiser Game Zero (a few years of usage) to a Hyper X Cloud (Wired Mobius copy). God I loved the fullness, the richer bass, just everything else compared to the Game Zero (but Game Zero was great nonetheless). Mic was pretty eh in comparison though...so soft...Anyhow had to return it due to a technical fault.
> 
> ...


I have the pc38x (similarish to Game One), Penrose (similarish to Mobius), 5xx, and 6xx in hand right now and I'm a/b/c/d testing them for gaming. I far prefer the pc38x and Penrose for gaming - the 5xx seemed too airy, the 6xx didn't seem as spacious and lacked the fun bass of the pc38x. Between the pc38x and penrose - I find the pc38x to be better in most cases for my liking, but sometimes the penrose is better. Like footsteps and gunshots have more oomph to them with the penrose, and they penrose obviously feel closer to you. The pc38x are open back and make the world feel much bigger, and they have a nice balance of bass and richness. To me the world sound more real and alive with the pc38x but the penrose seemed more punchy in many circumstances.

Take this from a guy who has no idea what he's talking about - I'm a newb and don't know how to describe things but these are my experiences after hours and hours of testing on ps5/ps4/pc on a variety of types of games like Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Ghost of Tsushima, RE2, Far Cry, Valorant, many more.

I'd love to hear MLE or others who have tried these 4 give their direct comparisons


----------



## AppleheadMay

Tested some DACs/solutions on both Xbox and PS5.
When reading my findings below please keep in mind I'm looking for a "higher end" solution, meaning:
- No bluetooth (compression)
- No double amping in the chain (so not some analog out from controller or TV to analog in of an amp)
- Using either the working dac/amp's built in headphone amp for easier to drive phones or chaining through digitally (opt/coax) to a better amp of your choice.
- Wireless headphones via wireless dongles are fine but I the only ones I consider are the Penrose and Penrose X, I prefer to avoid gaming brands.
I have both on order and hope they still come in this year here in Europe.
- I don't consider HDMI splitters/extractors until HDMI 2.1 splitters are available for the obvious reason that I don't want to give up 4K120 and VRR.


On XsX: 
- Like expected, no USB DAC works, not even a G6. 
We'll need MS licensed products like the Pensrose and some other gaming brands to use USB for audio.
- best solution so far is enable DAH/DTSHX via HDMI to TV, optical out from TV to you dac or dac/amp of choice.

On PS5:
- Topping D10s doesn't work
- iFi Micro iDSD (BL) doesn't work.
- And like MLE said heaps of times, the G6 is perfectly detected on the PS5. 
I find the HP output on it not all that clean and/or powerful though so I route it via optical out to another dac/amp but it can be used with its internal amp of course.

I'll be testing two more devices as soon as they come in.


----------



## MikeyMatou

jessjj said:


> I have the pc38x (similarish to Game One), Penrose (similarish to Mobius), 5xx, and 6xx in hand right now and I'm a/b/c/d testing them for gaming. I far prefer the pc38x and Penrose for gaming - the 5xx seemed too airy, the 6xx didn't seem as spacious and lacked the fun bass of the pc38x. Between the pc38x and penrose - I find the pc38x to be better in most cases for my liking, but sometimes the penrose is better. Like footsteps and gunshots have more oomph to them with the penrose, and they penrose obviously feel closer to you. The pc38x are open back and make the world feel much bigger, and they have a nice balance of bass and richness. To me the world sound more real and alive with the pc38x but the penrose seemed more punchy in many circumstances.
> 
> Take this from a guy who has no idea what he's talking about - I'm a newb and don't know how to describe things but these are my experiences after hours and hours of testing on ps5/ps4/pc on a variety of types of games like Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Ghost of Tsushima, RE2, Far Cry, Valorant, many more.
> 
> I'd love to hear MLE or others who have tried these 4 give their direct comparisons



Hmm, well if the Game One (let's equate it to the PC38X) was similar to Game Zero in terms of sound quality (not taking into account the open vs closed back) then I have to say I still felt as though I thoroughly enjoyed the HyperX Cloud (so equating to the Mobius) more. Maybe it's just because I'm looking for it primarily for music... I guess I was curious to see how the 6XX and HE-5XX performed in comparison, but I do worry if the 6XX lacks a fun bass.


----------



## AppleheadMay

MikeyMatou said:


> Hmm, well if the Game One (let's equate it to the PC38X) was similar to Game Zero in terms of sound quality (not taking into account the open vs closed back) then I have to say I still felt as though I thoroughly enjoyed the HyperX Cloud (so equating to the Mobius) more. Maybe it's just because I'm looking for it primarily for music... I guess I was curious to see how the 6XX and HE-5XX performed in comparison, but I do worry if the 6XX lacks a fun bass.



6XX/650 isn't lacking in bass at all but it needs a powerful amp for that to come through.
Like with many higher end (doesn't matter if the price doesn't reflect that) phones it only shows its capabilities when properly driven.


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> Questions:
> - I see that way I can connect the PS5 via USB, the XsX via HDMI to TV and from TV to optical in on the G6. From the G6 I can then go optical out to my DAC or DAC/amp.
> As long as I leave SBX VSS off, that would give me tempest from PS and DAH/DSTXH from the Xbox. If I want SBX VSS I just press the SBX button on the G6. I can also press and hold to enable direct mode to make sure all SBX VSS is off.
> - This would be a one time configuration in the PC to open up the optical input in the mixer and perform some other settings, no need to switch to the PC often to change something on the G6 I would use with my consoles?
> - Stupid question I guess: Do I get Tempest audio from all PS games (so is it implemented on the OS level) or only the ones that were created with Tempest audio.



On the last point, based on my experience (with headset plugged directly in dualsense), you should not use 3D audio on all games. Only Demon Souls and Astro sounded excellent, but for me , other games like COD, BF1-5 and Spider-Man remastered sounded better with it turned off. But one thing to note: Demon Souls and Astro have no settings for sound in game, but the others have. So maybe the game's own sound processing is getting into conflict with the Tempest engine.



AppleheadMay said:


> Long USB cable to the G6 or long optical cable from G6 to a portable amp?



Question about the G6 which I didn't quite understand: why can't it process 7.1 VSS with only the USB plugged in the PS5? Why does it also need to Optical?


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> On the last point, based on my experience (with headset plugged directly in dualsense), you should not use 3D audio on all games. Only Demon Souls and Astro sounded excellent, but for me , other games like COD, BF1-5 and Spider-Man remastered sounded better with it turned off. But one thing to note: Demon Souls and Astro have no settings for sound in game, but the others have. So maybe the game's own sound processing is getting into conflict with the Tempest engine.
> 
> 
> 
> Question about the G6 which I didn't quite understand: why can't it process 7.1 VSS with only the USB plugged in the PS5? Why does it also need to Optical?



- You mean turn off the 3D audio setting in settings or in the game?

- You don't need both for SBX VSS nor Tempest VSS. 
You need an usb cable to go from PS5 to G6. Then you can connect your headphones. 
Or you could connect the optical out from the G6 to a dac/amp like I do to have a better amp.
But you don't need to connect both optical and USB input into the G6.


----------



## Zachik

AppleheadMay said:


> On XsX:
> - Like expected, no USB DAC works, not even a G6.
> We'll need MS licensed products like the Pensrose and some other gaming brands to use USB for audio.
> *- best solution so far is enable DAH/DTSHX via HDMI to TV, optical out from TV to you dac or dac/amp of choice.*


Quick question:
I assume above solution will not work well for 2 people playing on the XsX?
Assume headphones are NOT identical (different impedance and/or sensitivity), so different volume levels would be needed for each.
Probably best solution would be using easy-to-drive headphones, and drive each directly from the XsX controller?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Zachik said:


> Quick question:
> I assume above solution will not work well for 2 people playing on the XsX?
> Assume headphones are NOT identical (different impedance and/or sensitivity), so different volume levels would be needed for each.
> Probably best solution would be using easy-to-drive headphones, and drive each directly from the XsX controller?



I have no idea as I never played with two one one console.
Probably not even possible to split the optical cable.

Maybe use that solution for you and the controller solution for ta friend coming over?
Or maybe two headsets with wifi dongles works?
But it'd be better to ask someone who plays with two people on one console.


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> - You mean turn off the 3D audio setting in settings or in the game?
> 
> - You don't need both for SBX VSS nor Tempest VSS.
> You need an usb cable to go from PS5 to G6. Then you can connect your headphones.
> ...



- I mean turn off the 3D in the Audio setting of the PS5 if playing a game that wasn't designed with the 3D audio in mind.

- From a thread before it was my understanding that the 7.1 processing only works with the optical in? The USB only will be in stereo?


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> - I mean turn off the 3D in the Audio setting of the PS5 if playing a game that wasn't designed with the 3D audio in mind.
> 
> - From a thread before it was my understanding that the 7.1 processing only works with the optical in? The USB only will be in stereo?



It is possible that the PS5 only puts out stereo via USB indeed, not sure though.
Optical is maximum 5.1, not 7.1.


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> It is possible that the PS5 only puts out stereo via USB indeed, not sure though.
> Optical is maximum 5.1, not 7.1.



Well I meant to use the blaster,s 7.1 or 5.1 processing, you need the optical in.


----------



## Evshrug

MikeyMatou said:


> Hmm, well if the Game One (let's equate it to the PC38X) was similar to Game Zero in terms of sound quality (not taking into account the open vs closed back) then I have to say I still felt as though I thoroughly enjoyed the HyperX Cloud (so equating to the Mobius) more. Maybe it's just because I'm looking for it primarily for music... I guess I was curious to see how the 6XX and HE-5XX performed in comparison, but I do worry if the 6XX lacks a fun bass.


I have both a Game One and Game Zero. The Zero offers a sealed, noise isolating listening environment, but the Game One just sounds better. More natural, more spacious, better detailed, etc etc.

The HD 6XX (I have the HD 650) is higher resolving, but the more direct/non-angled drivers present a smaller soundstage. Sennheiser went more for “natural” sound than enhanced bass, but the mids and bass have a nice weight and body to them even if they are crisper than the Game Zero and don’t have as much sub-bass presence.

The Game One/PC37X has more bass and a larger soundstage than the HD 6xx, but in trade the HD 6XX is yet another upgrade in clarity over the PC37X. I think the HD 6XX is also easer to listen to long-term, because of the intentional treble (quite high pitch) presence reduction, though honestly I can play PUBG for hours with either one.


----------



## Evshrug (Nov 30, 2020)

Sharing a deal for gamers (thanks @Mad Lust Envy for permission)

Add a $120 Sennheiser PC37X to this $90 Drop ENTR mechanical keyboard, for a combo price of just $150: https://drop.com/buy/drop-entr-mechanical-keyboard

I recently reviewed the ENTR, typing on a mechanical keyboard is an energetic, springy experience, with a lighter touch required than membrane keyboards you might be used to (like a laptop keyboard). For typing and all-around use, I’d recommend the Halo True switches (they feel like refined Cherry MX Brown), but for primarily gaming, the linear Gateron Yellow switches (similar to MX Cherry Reds, but more springy) would feel more responsive. I liked customizing them with colored keycaps!





In depth ENTR review if curious: https://drop.com/talk/62256/keys-to-success

The PC37X was the last headphone I independently reviewed before I started consulting for headphone companies (including Sennheiser). Mad reviewed the open backed Game One, which is the same headset as the PC37X except with a different body color. If you’re curious about my thoughts: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-pc37x-gaming-headset/talk/1571778



These are Drop exclusive products.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Great deal!

I have the Drop CTRL which is basically the same as the ENTR with some more features, which I don’t use anyway.
Mine is the high profile version which means the bottom of the keycaps are in the frame, not keycaps floating above the top plate like the ENTR. (Think Logitech Pro vs. Logitech 915 TKL.)

If you need shine through legends on your keycaps, the ones that come with the ENTR will do fine but if you want some really nice ones (not shone through), check Drop SA Oblotzky, a totally different quality, feel and sound.

Best switches I have ever found after testing about 80 different kinds are the Zeal Tealios (linear) or Zeal Zealios if you prefer tactile, very smooth with good resistance.
Any of the Halos pale in comparison. They’re expensive though, about 1$ per switch.

The switches on the CTRL are hot-swappable, not sure if that’s the case pn the ENTR though. If not I’d pick the Gateron Yellows, they’re decent.


----------



## Rozzko

So I bought meze 99 neo (1 year ago I had meze 99 classics then sell it) , so what I can say about ps5 controller:
- amp better from DualShock 4, in term of sound quantity meze 99 sound really well with maximum volume of gamepad
- but quality... sound loud but tiny/flat, not powerfull, not dynamic. 
- all in all ps5 controller can amp headphones like 99 meze but it’s not best sound quality.

for test listening I connect meze 99 to my TV(LG B9) to jack 3,5 and run few Netflix TVs and what I can say, it’s Much more dynamic and energy in TV audio out than in ps5 controller. Action scenes is really good and impactful. So all in all - I need Creative G6 for ps5 games (to take tempest 3D) or Audeze Penrose. Audeze will be more expensive, and maybe not better in soun quality than meze 99+G6

p.s. why again meze? Because in its price range I don’t find anything better than meze 99 in closed cans. Yeah I know it’s so much good open back cans, but in price range 200-300 (new/used) it’s not so much good choices. (Meze 99 neo I bought for 120$)


----------



## ArchDash

So I got the Sennheiser game one and really liked them a lot, but trying a open-back for the first time, I realised there is a lot of ambient noise (Computer fans) and decided to return them and try to go for the Game zero for the closed back.

Is there any noticeable difference between them apart from the noise isolation? 

I have read that the game zero have less bass (in other places the opposite) but apart from that (and losing the wide soundstage of open back) they seem very similar. However I have read tons of good reviews about game one, but almost none of the game zero.

Have anyone tried the Game zero version? Thanks


----------



## MikeyMatou (Oct 29, 2021)

Evshrug said:


> I have both a Game One and Game Zero. The Zero offers a sealed, noise isolating listening environment, but the Game One just sounds better. More natural, more spacious, better detailed, etc etc.
> 
> The HD 6XX (I have the HD 650) is higher resolving, but the more direct/non-angled drivers present a smaller soundstage. Sennheiser went more for “natural” sound than enhanced bass, but the mids and bass have a nice weight and body to them even if they are crisper than the Game Zero and don’t have as much sub-bass presence.
> 
> The Game One/PC37X has more bass and a larger soundstage than the HD 6xx, but in trade the HD 6XX is yet another upgrade in clarity over the PC37X. I think the HD 6XX is also easer to listen to long-term, because of the intentional treble (quite high pitch) presence reduction, though honestly I can play PUBG for hours with either one.



Thanks for that response. I have the Game Zero still (though uh...one ear cup alone works so maybe I can't judge it really from what I'm hearing) so I can kind of imagine things here. I do enjoy my upper-bass/mid thoroughly, so I might have to make a call. I realize now I have a pretty noisy environment sometimes so may consider closed-back more than I was originally...then again I may still have to look at non-Sennheiser (like the stated HiFi and Penrose) but I won't bother you as a Sennheiser sponsor haha.


----------



## Evshrug

ArchDash said:


> So I got the Sennheiser game one and really liked them a lot, but trying a open-back for the first time, I realised there is a lot of ambient noise (Computer fans) and decided to return them and try to go for the Game zero for the closed back.
> 
> Is there any noticeable difference between them apart from the noise isolation?
> 
> ...


I’ll give another listen when I get back home today. Have Game Zero and PC37X, PC38X


----------



## UrsusMajor

Lay. said:


> I have HD598's and they do not need a powerful AMP. MixAmp was enough with them although I use them with HDV820 nowadays.


I'm looking to upgrade my 598s to 800S, is there any reason you would choose your 598s over your 800s other than being easier to drive


----------



## danterikxx

UrsusMajor said:


> I'm looking to upgrade my 598s to 800S, is there any reason you would choose your 598s over your 800s other than being easier to drive



the price



kadinh said:


> I can now use my Topping E30/L30 with the PS5 through USB and get 3D audio, only cost me $20:
> 
> [PS5] ---- USB ---- [THIS] ---- optical ---- [E30] ---- RCA ---- [L30] ---- 1/4" cable ---- Headphones



did this work or is it just speculation it will work?


----------



## Lay.

UrsusMajor said:


> I'm looking to upgrade my 598s to 800S, is there any reason you would choose your 598s over your 800s other than being easier to drive



For me... no. Not really except nostalgic reasons.

Sometimes I would choose 660S over 800S for music. Sometimes I would choose 660S over 598 for gaming. I don't usually choose 598 over my 800S for gaming or music. 

I bought my 598's about 8-9 years ago and now my 7 year old son is playing with them. A great pair of headphones especially for gaming. I have no intention ever selling them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 1, 2020)

MikeyMatou said:


> Hmm, well if the Game One (let's equate it to the PC38X) was similar to Game Zero in terms of sound quality (not taking into account the open vs closed back) then I have to say I still felt as though I thoroughly enjoyed the HyperX Cloud (so equating to the Mobius) more. Maybe it's just because I'm looking for it primarily for music... I guess I was curious to see how the 6XX and HE-5XX performed in comparison, but I do worry if the 6XX lacks a fun bass.


You can't equate the 38X to the Game One. The Game One is literally the PC37X in a different color. PC38X > PC37X

The PC37X is a solid gaming headset (absolutely), but next to the PC38X, I'd not look back to it. The PC38X is a headset I'd use even for music. The PC37X is not. It's something I'd strictly use for competitive gaming,.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone, I am building my 7 year old twins a computer for Christmas and looking at getting them some headsets. Would you recommend the Sennheiser Gsp 301. I am looking at trying to keep them under 150 CDN. Thanks for the help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

In case you guys are wondering about my Penrose review. I have much written (like 95%), but I'm waiting on the next firmware before I solidify my review, as various things are being addressed, and I don't want my review impressions to be outdated. Mic clarity in particular is something I was pretty vivid about on the review, and so I wanna make sure the supposed clarity improvements make a meaningful difference.

I didn't address the whoosh issue because it's definitely being fixed, and I personally didn't hear it with 99% of my time with the Penrose.


----------



## zbrictson

Yeah the whoosh is something you may or may not hear while you aren't listening to anything, so I never understood the drama around it.


----------



## bitslacker

Mad Lust Envy said:


> In case you guys are wondering about my Penrose review. I have much written (like 95%), but I'm waiting on the next firmware before I solidify my review, as various things are being addressed, and I don't want my review impressions to be outdated. Mic clarity in particular is something I was pretty vivid about on the review, and so I wanna make sure the supposed clarity improvements make a meaningful difference.
> 
> I didn't address the whoosh issue because it's definitely being fixed, and I personally didn't hear it with 99% of my time with the Penrose.


I’ve been looking forward to your Penrose review.

Do you know approximately when they’re planning to release the firmware update?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 1, 2020)

I have news guys.... I did get a beta version of the new upcoming Penrose firmware, which fixes the whoosh completely, lowers noise floor even more, lowers female voice considerably, as well as fixes a lot of the wireless mic quality, as stated below.


I DO think the wireless quality has improved. It's still a far cry from the wired connection, but raising the volume and comparing it, I can't say I'm no longer totally against the idea of using the Penrose wirelessly. It's still not something I'd consider if mic quality is of upmost importance, but it is an improvement.

Old/Initial release:




and now...


Updated:




Tell me what you guys think. Some of that veil has lifted which is absolutely a good thing.

edit: added the Mobius mic for comparison sake.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Are the Penrose still not released in the US as well? Any date set? And is the Xbox certification done yet?
Here in Europe the dealers have no date at all.


----------



## bitslacker

AppleheadMay said:


> Are the Penrose still not released in the US as well? Any date set? And is the Xbox certification done yet?
> Here in Europe the dealers have no date at all.


Penrose has been released in the US.
Penrose X was certified by Microsoft and units should start shipping this week.


----------



## jessjj

AppleheadMay said:


> Are the Penrose still not released in the US as well? Any date set? And is the Xbox certification done yet?
> Here in Europe the dealers have no date at all.


Have the penrose now - not sure I like them better than the pc38x in most cases. Excited to hear MLE thoughts


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're not worried about being wireless or not, then yes, I too would just get a PC38X.

Penrose for the convenience and versatility of wireless, bluetooth, and aux input. PC38x for any other general use.

That being said, of you want closed back, the PC38X can't help you there. Penrose would be my first stop for closed back Headphones.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're not worried about being wireless or not, then yes, I too would just get a PC38X.
> 
> Penrose for the convenience and versatility of wireless, bluetooth, and aux input. PC38x for any other general use.
> 
> That being said, of you want closed back, the PC38X can't help you there. Penrose would be my first stop for closed back Headphones.


Yeah, it’s sad that PC38X are closed back. Sound leaking is problem when living with someone


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Rozzko said:


> Yeah, it’s sad that PC38X are closed back. Sound leaking is problem when living with someone


I'm sure you meant ISN'T closed back...

And to be honest, sound leak ISN'T a problem, unless they're in the same room as you.

I've never had issues with bothering others with my open backed headphones aside from planarmagnetics which are like speakers and leak a looooot more than dynamic headphones.

With the PC38X, if you're in a bedroom, just closing the door would keep the sound from bothering anyone else.


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm sure you meant ISN'T closed back...
> 
> And to be honest, sound leak ISN'T a problem, unless they're in the same room as you.
> 
> ...


Ymmv but I’ve never heard a complaint about my open backs from people in the same room


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Was so close to getting the Penrose, think I've ordered and cancelled about 3 times this year and as they still haven't reached the UK I decided to cancel for the last time yesterday and stick to wireless.  I do enjoy using my PC38x and once I get a warranty replacement G6 back from Creative, I expect they'll be pushed to a better level compared to via the Dualsense I currently connect them too.

For me though, I'm enjoying the Beyer Tygr 300r more - especially from a comfort point of view but also from an audio perspective so equally keen to see how these perform with the G6


----------



## AppleheadMay

Where can I order that wireless closed-back PC38X?
Ok, I'll do it myself ...


----------



## Lay.

jessjj said:


> Ymmv but I’ve never heard a complaint about my open backs from people in the same room



This. My better half just complains about me playing. Not once (during 10+ years) have I heard anyone saying that they are bothered by the sound. And HD800S are as open as dynamic headphones get.


----------



## jameswalker

@Mad Lust Envy 
I read many pages ago your thoughts on the various windows sound plugins. In the end I actually came to prefer atmos for headphones, then DTS:X headphone, lastly waves NX (opposite of what your thoughts were). Wondering if you had tried the "Razer THX Spatial Audio App"? There is a free trial, would be good if you could compare that with the others for us all. 

Thanks


----------



## AppleheadMay

Tested two more device with the PS5:
- FiiO K3: doesn't work in both USB 1.o and USB 2.0 mode.
- SXFI AMP: works! You can then choose to either disable SXFI processing and use Tempest VSS or enable SXFI VSS.


----------



## Nominiel

Hmm... looking at that G6 deal on the official store...
Is it a good deal to go for it and use it for PC (replacing an ASUS Xonar Xense sound card) and my future PS5 or does anyone have info, whether Creative will get some new DACs out there soonish? (looking at the usual CES spot in January).

In short, buy a G6 now or should I wait for other products?

Another question:
Could a G6 drive my Beyerdynamics Amiron Home?

Your expertise is much appreciated!


----------



## AppleheadMay

G6 is one of the most versatile devices out there for both consoles and PC and has ample digtal and anolog inputs and outputs.
IMO it has rather decent headphone output but I prefer to send its optical out to a portable or desctop dac/amp.

In short, the G6 is a safe bet and well worth the money even at full price or more. Grab the deal.


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> Long USB cable to the G6 or long optical cable from G6 to a portable amp?



I just understood that the G6 has an optical output. So would this setup work for both SBX Dolby Digital (from my 4K player/Apple TV) and the Tempest from the PS5? (Basically adding my old Harman Kardon receiver so I can remote control. I would turn OFF Dolby Headphone processing on it)


For Dolby Digital:
   4K Player/Apple TV / PS5 (for older games)------> Sony X950G TV (hdmi) -----> G6 (optical in. using SBX processing)  ---> Harman Kardon Receiver (from optical out)

For Tempest
   PS5---->  Sony X950G TV (hdmi)---> G6 ( USB. SBX Processing turned off)  ----> Harman Kardon Receiver (from optical out)


----------



## UrsusMajor

AppleheadMay said:


> Tested two more device with the PS5:
> - FiiO K3: doesn't work in both USB 1.o and USB 2.0 mode.
> - SXFI AMP: works! You can then choose to either disable SXFI processing and use Tempest VSS or enable SXFI VSS.


Woah the sxfi amp works! But the ps5 will only send tempest or stereo via USB so you wouldnt be able to use sxfi's own vss right? Which I would assume would require a 5.1/7.1 signal

Also sorry if this is a stupid question, but would the personalisation with SXFI (pictures of ears and face) work with the tempest vss, or does it only personalise audio for use with SXFI's own VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 13, 2021)

Alright guys, here it is. I'm not entirely happy with it, but I tend to never be happy with my reviews and still need to commit and post. Just bear in mind that I may update and change a few things down the line, like adding the experience with the mobile software. But what you see is up to date otherwise.

*PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU SEE THE IMAGES*



------------

*Audeze Penrose*



$299.00 as of December 2020
Where To Buy: Audeze

*Disclaimer: Update 7/7/2021: I've started my employment at Audeze as a Customer Service Rep. As this review was done prior to my employment, I will leave this review here and intact, but do not expect any future reviews for Audeze products. First look style articles, perhaps, but I can't in good conscience review a product for a company I work for.*

_A special thanks to Audeze for sending the Penrose and Penrose X out to me for review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products.

I initially received a pre-production version of the Penrose, and then was sent a release version of the Penrose X. All testing was done on PC and PS5 (the Penrose X currently works with full functionality on PS5). The bulk of my impressions is of the Penrose X, though you should not anticipate any internal differences between them other than the X's ability to work on Xbox (with the usb dongle having a toggle switch which allows Xbox functionality). So when I speak of the Penrose, I mean BOTH, though testing was done mainly on the X. *So this review is applicable for BOTH the Penrose and Penrose X*._

*Intro*​
Not one to rest on their laurels, Audeze wasn't content with just releasing the fantastic and versatile Mobius, and its impressively high end gaming headset, the LCD-GX. Expanding their reach, Audze has now landed on to the wireless gaming market. The Penrose and Penrose X is targeting the new generation of consoles, the PS5 and Xbox Series X. No doubt they'll face heavy competition in the space, though I'd venture a guess in saying that very few will match Audeze's efforts, with features like their beefy 100mm planarmagnetic drivers, which few traditional drivers can match in size and quality. Definitely less so for other gaming headsets, particularly ones aimed at wireless convenience. So far Audeze has showcased nothing but absolute winners to me, and the streak continues with the Penrose offerings.

I won't bore you guys with the details that can be easily found online in the product description, so let's get into the things I CAN bore you with.


*Build Quality*​
_Note: As the Penrose is physically very similar to the Mobius save for button functionality, I'll be reiterating what I said about the Audeze Mobius here. I will be mentioning the key differences as they come up._

The Penrose is 99.9% identical to the Mobius, which itself stood out from the other Audeze headphone. It's smaller, lighter, and made with durable feeling plastics. It may not look as premium as the LCD line of Audeze headphones, but I feel the Penrose (as well as Mobius) is well built without any worries of fragility.


*Headband:*

A standard plastic headband with the bottom dressed in very plush, faux-leather in the center. The size adjustment is fairly typical and akin to something you'd expect from Sennheiser, with a easy adjustment that clicks, but have no visible markings.


*Cups:



*

The cups are oval-shaped, with a fully enclosed outer shell that house the power button, mic on/off, and power led indicator on the left outer cup; nothing on the right cup, though internally, I believe houses the battery (good for up to 12 hours of wireless playtime).

The cups can lay flat for portable use/resting around the neck, and have enough swivel to fit any head shape.

The bottom of the left cup is absolutely packed with all the interface you'll ever need: volume slider, microphone volume slider, aux/3.5mm input jack, usb type c input (for its charging and PC connection to change software specifics), microphone jack, and multi-function button. Below are the functions of each. Bear in mind that Audeze can change some of the functions and shortcuts of the things below, so if they're different at a later date, don't blame me. D:


Volume Wheel - The volume wheel contains a secondary function. By double pressing the wheel in, it will link back to the last Bluetooth device. I was not able to test this, and attempting to connect two different bluetooth devices so I could link back to the other was unsuccessful. I have no idea what this implies, but whatever it is, nothing indicates me that it's functional at the moment.


Mic Volume wheel - Pressing down on the mic volume slider and adjusting it up or down will change the volumes between game and chat balance. I was also not able to test this function. PS5, PC, Bluetooth, none would change in balance between the volumes of either no matter how hard I tried. Update: Per Audeze, it does work on Xbox (which I don't have in my possession), so I believe this function may not make any sense for the regular Penrose which can't connect to Xbox consoles.


Multi-function - Self explanatory. It is a button shortcut for other functions. One button press changes the source between wireless, AUX, and bluetooth modes. With a long press, you'll trigger the wireless pairing mode (not to be confused with bluetooth pairing mode).


Power Button - Long press to turn the Penrose on/off. Double clicking the power button when on the bluetooth source will go into bluetooth pairing mode. There's also more functions like single clicking being play/pause of audio and answer/ending calls, as well as slightly shorter long press rejecting incoming calls.


Hard Reset - Press in volume, mic volume, and multi-function button for 5-10 seconds. I would've used this once with a pre-production unit as it froze and wouldn't let me turn it off. Before I knew of this shortcut, I instead just let the battery drain completely overnight. This was on the pre-release Penrose, and I haven't had this issue on the Penrose X which is production version.


*Ear Pads:

*

While some of you may know I'm not the biggest fan of faux-leather pads, Audeze has managed to give the Penrose a very ample amount of padding while minimizing surface contact area. The end result is that the Penrose sits comfortably on the skin, with an oval-shaped opening, keeping the ears from bottoming out and pressing onto the drivers or pressing up against the pad walls.


*Cables:*

The Penrose comes with 3 basic cables: 6ft USB C to USB A, 6ft USB C to USB C, and 3.5ft 3.5mm aux headset cable (mic and audio channels). All your bases are covered here in terms of cables.


*Final Build Impressions:*

While the Penrose isn't the hefty beast one would expect of Audeze, it is made of some generally durable plastics that shouldn't offend anyone. The Penrose looks like it can take some moderate abuse, though why would you abuse planarmagnetic goodness like this?



*Accessories:

*

Aside from the cables mentioned above, you get the detachable boom microphone attachment designed by Shure. This has been updated from the prior boom mic that came with the Mobius. The mic end looks more premium and looks like a miniature version of an LCD headphone's outer cup grill design.



You also get the USB dongle, which transmits the source audio to the Penrose wirelessly. Unlike the normal Penrose which has no switch, the Penrose X comes with a dongle that houses a switch that toggles between Xbox and PC. The PC side enables its standard USB protocols and will work exactly like the non-X Penrose dongle. You may find it working with much more than PC. I'm not Audeze, so I'm under no legal or contractual obligations, meaning I can tell you that through testing, I found the Penrose X's dongle working through PC, PS5, and even the Nintendo Switch Lite (with type C to USB A adapter cable). I assume the product description omits PS5 and MAC compatibility, due to both companies being in direct competition with Microsoft. Of course to carry official Xbox support, they're not going to mention the competition. Let's leave it at that, and take it as a nice surprise. I still recommend the regular Penrose if you do not ever plan on getting an Xbox, as that is the only difference, and you get OFFICIAL support.



*Comfort*​

*Weight:*

The Penrose is amongst the lightest planarmagnetic headphones I've personally tested, and generally a non-issue. I believe it is around 350g, which isn't the lightest headphone, though definitely light for a planar. I feel the weight is distributed well, and shouldn't pose a problem for most people.


*Headband:*

Headbands are either hit or miss in general, but I feel the Penrose is on the right side of things, with ample cushioning. After prolonged periods of use, there's a minor sore spot on my head, though I have to mention that during testing, my head was clipped short. Those with a bed of hair may not notice any hotspotting. I didn't mention it in my Mobius review, likely because I hadn't cut my hair at the time.


*Ear Pads: *

As mentioned earlier, I'm not generally a fan of faux-leather ear pads, but the shape, depth, and minimal skin contact surface, paired with the ample cushioning, makes the Penrose's ear pads generally ok for comfort, and amongst the better faux-leather ear pads I've tested. From memory I can't recall a better pair of faux leather ear pads in terms of comfort and keeping my ears cool. You may need some rest periods to let your ears cool off.


*Clamp:*

I'd say the clamp on the Penrose falls under 'moderate' pressure. If anything, this may be the only area in comfort I'd personally want improved, as I prefer less pressure in general. I can see moderate clamp starting to cause minor aches during long listening sessions. Clamp is a highly debatable subject, and can easily fall under personal preference. I recommend stretching the Penrose over a folded pillow overnight to loosen up the clamp a bit.


*Overall Comfort Impressions:*

The Penrose is in a range of comfort I'd consider good, despite personal preference of less clamp. Outside of clamp and some headband discomfort, the comfort easily lands in the spectrum between good and great. I don't see many people having a problem with the Penrose whatsoever in terms of comfort outside of initial clamp.



*Noise Control*​
It's been a considerable amount of time since I've last played with a closed headphone of any kind, but I'd say the noise leak and noise isolation are good enough for my use. I couldn't see the Penrose being a problem to use in a quiet room or loud environment. It may not be one of the best in either regard, but I'd say it holds its own well enough, though may not block out as much external noise as some of the better closed back headphones. When playing audio, I personally don't have any issue with the minimal amount of external noise that leaks in. If you're in a really loud environment, there are better options for isolation. If you're worried about disturbing others with the Penrose, don't be.

As for internal noise/hiss coming from the Penrose itself, this has been noticeably improved from the Mobius, and even the initial release firmware of the Penrose. It was already a very good noise floor, with only very faint hiss. Now with the more recent firmware, the noise floor is so minimal, you'd have to be one hell of a stickler to complain about the Penrose. It's not a wired headphone's level of black background, but it's solid. With any external ambience, you'll be hard pressed to notice any internal noise at all.



*Connection Range and Battery Life*​
Let me preface this by saying that my main area of listening and doing anything at home is my bedroom. My house has a very odd layout of having a bathroom smack dab in the middle of the house. What I'm trying to say by this is that I don't have much open space besides the area between the living room and kitchen. The rest is a maze of thick walls, and interference. It's bad for my wifi (which I needed an extender for, and which still has issues), and it's certain to be bad for range testing for the Penrose.

With all that out of the way, I can say that for my specific situation, I have zero issues with range in my bedroom, up to the center bathroom, and the living room that's connected to my bedroom. I'd say I can get a good 20-25ft in my odd layout before it starts having connection problems. My PC and PS5 are both connected to far outer walls of my bedroom, and so the signal needs to bounce multiple times in odd directions if I try to use the Penrose outside my room. I certainly wouldn't try to use the Penrose outside my bedroom when connected via the wireless dongle. In short, your mileage may vary.

As far as battery life goes, it's good for around 15 hours of playback, which I haven't extensively tested, though that's far longer than I think most people would need in a day. If need be, you can still use the Penrose while it is charging. While charging, there was no added noise.



*Audeze HQ Software*​
This PC program is where you can customize all manner of things on the Penrose that can't be accessed on the headset itself. It's a fairly simple to use software, that also allows you to choose between the Penrose functions and the Mobius functions (in case you were to have both, which I do).


*Penrose Mix Amp:*



Sidetone - You can toggle this function On/Off. This lets you hear your mic output. By the time of this review, you can only toggle this in the software. I personally don't like sidetone being on, other than when testing as the slight delay between my voice and when the sidetone plays is distracting. It also adds noise. In short, I personally recommend leaving this off outside of testing purposes.


Game/Voice Mix - This wheel allows you to adjust between the volume of the main audio, and voice audio. I haven't been able to test this in any way, so not quite sure of its effects. If it's anything like the physical game/voice knob on the Astro Mixamp, it will reduce the volume of one and raise the other. It'd be quite useful if/when it works.|


Mic Volume - Here you can set between 0-100%.


Presets - The Penrose doesn't currently have traditional presets unlike the Mobius. Instead, you have a 10-band equalizer in the software, which you can save to various presets (presently 2 configurable presets, more in the future). This gives you the freedom to tailor the sound to your liking, though I personally prefer to leave my sound as intended.


*Device Info:*



Here you'll find an image of the Penrose and its physical features. The left column shows app and other miscellaneous information.


*Firmware:*

Here you'll have a current firmware and an Update Firmware button. At least when I updated to the beta firmware, the process was extremely painless. You disconnect the dongle, connect the Penrose via USB, and click update. That's it. Much easier than the method of updating firmware on the Mobius which was quite complex by comparison.


*Right Column:*



Profile - This is where you select between the Mobius and Penrose options of the software.

On the far right side of the app window shows current mic volume and whether the Headset is connected through USB.


*Final HQ Software Impressions:*

Compared to the dense feature set of the Mobius in terms of the unit itself as well as the software functions, the Penrose's portion of the HQ software is a a bit more simplified and straight forward. Everything is pretty self explanatory, and you shouldn't need to mess with the software much aside from toggling the mic's sidetone, and changing the presets which will then save onto the unit itself. That and the occasional firmware update. In the future, there will be a mobile application which will further reduce the need to use the PC software.



*Usability and Intuitiveness*​
_(Note - this section is highly subject to change due to ever evolving improvements and updates being made to the Penrose by Audeze. As such, I wouldn't put too much stock on the minor gripes I have mentioned here. They may no longer be an issue weeks and months down the line.)_

I'd like to talk a little more about certain functions and the ease of use, intuitiveness, and general usability of the Penrose. I'll go down a list of things it does and how I feel about them. Some of this may sound like major complaints, but don't take it as such. It's mainly just highlighting these minor things more so that you can understand that these simple things as a whole will affect the user experience at least until future updates address them.


Power Button - The power button has multiple functions, some that double as other functions depending on the state of the Penrose. If it sounds confusing, it is via explanation, but makes more sense in actual practice. That being said, having something like a long press of 3 seconds rejecting an incoming call or 5 seconds turning the Penrose off, I can totally see where people may accidentally turn off the Penrose by accident.


Multi-function button - there's not much to complain about here as pressing the button just toggles between sources, while a long press activates pairing for the wireless mode. My only gripe is that the bluetooth pairing and wireless pairing function are in two separate areas on the Penrose, and I find myself pressing the wrong one. I'm sure as you get more accustomed to the Penrose, you'll remember which buttons cause bluetooth and wireless pairing modes.


Headphone volume wheel - The obvious volume adjustment of main audio is fine enough, but I'm not a fan of the sudden reduction in volume, beep, and then sudden rise in volume when the volume is maxed out. I would've preferred the beep interrupting the main audio instead of the drastic volume change which is quite jarring. I also feel the steps in volume are too large. The Mobius as of this review has a lot of volume steps for easier fine tuning to get the perfect amount of volume. The Penrose needs more steps. As for double clicking the volume wheel for the bluetooth link back function, I don't think it feels natural and intuitive. It's also not something I think many people will utilize on a regular basis, so if anything, they'll have a hard time remembering what action on the Penrose it's linked to. I can't blame Audeze here, as even though the functions have been stripped down from the many that were on the Mobius, there are still so many on the Penrose, that you're bound to forget what does what especially the lesser used functions.


Microphone volume wheel - Nothing to complain about here really. Pressing in the mic wheel and adjusting it for game/voice balance (on Xbox) feels a bit awkward to do, though without an Xbox, I can't say how well this works. If anything, I just find it odd that it's a feature on the regular Penrose, which it doesn't apply to, as you can't connect to the Xbox. Unless I'm missing something, and it works on something else, I fail to see why it's a function on the non-X version of the Penrose.

Overall, I feel that for the best user experience, it's best to stick to basic functions, instead of relying on the more complex ones. Things like bluetooth pairing and wireless pairing don't (at the moment) let you know which is being paired. I asked Audeze to perhaps update the notification to state them as "Bluetooth pairing, bluetooth connected, wireless pairing, wireless connected." Right now all you get is pairing and connected. Which though? Who knows?

One example of something I was confused by is that when having both wireless and bluetooth audio functioning at the same time, the balanced is skewed heavily towards bluetooth audio, so your main 'wireless' audio will be quite a bit lower in volume output. For awhile I thought this was addressable in software, but it isn't. This means that you're stuck with the inherent volume balance between bluetooth and wireless, unless adjusted via other means. Adjusting bluetooth volume will actually affect wireless volume as well (at least when paired to a mobile device). Personally, the balance is fine for me as I like to have my game audio much lower than chat volume, but I do miss the ability to adjust separately. Not having the option on the headset itself is missed, and I hope it can be added in the future.

The PC software lets you save two EQ presets of your choosing at the time of this review, though you can only save one on the headset itself. So when you apply your preset, your Penrose will apply it until the next time you change it on the software. No way to change this on the headset. This may be a bit easier to tweak via the mobile app, though I wasn't able to test during the review process. So for now, if you want to change your sound preset, you have to connect to the usb on PC.

Lastly, the sidetone can only be toggled on/off through software (for now), and so I prefer just leaving it off, outside of testing purposes. This is something I think would've been nice had it been on the headset itself, but then again, the Penrose already has so many functions to contend with, so perhaps it is best to deal with this, and the presets through software, like the future mobile app. Sidetone also apparently adds to the noise floor, so it's best to leave off for maximum sound quality.

All of this summed up means that whereas the Penrose shines in terms of audio performance, it's a little less stellar in terms of user experience, at least when it comes to constantly fiddling of its functions. With experience it won't be a major issue, but there a definite teething issues. In the future, I'm sure a lot of this will be addressed (just as many initial problems on the Mobius have been addressed since), so I'd worry less about long term functionality problems, and focus more on what it gets right, which is the sound.



*Sound*​


The Penrose is quite a bit cheaper than the Mobius, and one would be worried that sound quality would be impacted. That is definitely not the case. The Penrose sounds fantastic, and I'd say may be even better suited for gaming than the Mobius. The Mobius may have been a little more versatile due to internal EQ presets (whereas the Penrose needs access to the PC or mobile app to change between presets created), but as I like to review headphones based on default sound characteristics, I'd give the win to the Penrose. The Penrose is different to the inherent sound signature of the Mobius in some ways.


*Bass:*

If there's a company that knows proper bass, it's Audeze. This holds true with the Penrose. You can expect excellent linearity down to the deepest of guttural depths, with a full, rumbly, textured, and tactile bass section. It has a great amount of controlled energy without excess or bloat. It is snappy, always ready to throw down, but doesn't overcommit. It is not stuffy or heavy handed.

With frequency testing, I have found that the Penrose goes down, way down. Extremely low to chest pressure crushing depths. Even audible below 20hz which is quite rare, and not something I'm accustomed to hearing. Despite that, it's not emphasized over anything else. This isn't a basshead headphone, but when the bass is called for, it delivers. The warble of 35-40hz is fantastic, and will aid the Penrose in making them incredibly immersive for gaming and action movies.



*Midrange to Treble:*

Not only does Audeze specialize in accurate and potent bass, they also specialize in midrange presentation. While not as thick and inviting as the Mobius, it's sharper, clearer, and more defined.

Frequency testing shows general high output and presence, with a minor reduction past 1.5khz, a rise at 3khz, to high forward presence up to 5khz. A noticeable reduction of output at 5.5khz, which remains reigned in until about 8khz which rises to 10khz, which softens considerably but remains present and appreciable to 14khz. There was a bit of 4khz and 5.3khz frequency imbalance, though it was a short enough range that I wouldn't take major issue with, and could very well be driver variance. I certainly couldn't perceive the imbalances outside of frequency testing.

While not as organic as the midrange found on the Mobius, the midrange to treble sections make the Penrose better suited for accuracy and detail retrieval. Both male and female vocals are always present and vibrant. There is clear definition to vocals and instruments, despite not carrying the same amount of weight as the Mobius.



*Soundstage:*

I honestly didn't expect much to highlight or complain about with the Penrose's soundstage, as I don't bear much importance in terms of stereo presentations. I certainly don't expect much for most closed-back headphones in particular. So to my surprise, I was quite happy with the spaciousness and separation the Penrose provides. The soundstage isn't particularly large or deep, but there is certainly room for instruments and other sound cues to breathe within the headspace. It does not sound cluttered or congested. That's a great thing indeed, and far more than I would ever need for stereo use.


*Clarity:*

Due to its tighter, faster, more focused sound over the Mobius, it makes a better headphone for detail retrieval and minor analytical use. It's not a precision tool for designed for micro-detail extraction, but as far as general purpose, there won't be problems using the Penrose for most cases where clarity is top priority. It is highly detailed without giving up its more fun, casual use benefits. The softer hitting ranges between 5.5khz and 8khz may be a bit of a problem point for minor sound effects in those ranges, which is why I wouldn't call the Penrose the greatest competitive gaming headset if that's what you're looking into. Asides from that, it does most things well, and I'd give it a near 8 out of 10 in the case of clarity. It's really, really good here.


*Sound Signature:*

The Penrose sound signature is one that I find hard to pinpoint, because it changes depending on what you through at it. By that statement, one can extrapolate that it is a neutral leaning headphone. I won't disagree with that mindset, though since the Penrose changes so much, I can find it warm at times, not so warm in others. It's quite chameleon-esque in that regard. Regardless of final sound signature, you can bet that the Penrose will sound good with the vast majority of things you use it with. The bass reaches quite low, though not being really emphasized, the midrange is clean, clear and focused, and the treble is lively without excess energy or harshness.


*Microphone:*​**

The Penrose's microphone has been updated and changed from the Mobius mic in significant ways. The microphone on the Penrose has been designed by Shure, for one, and has a completely different tonal balance compared to the one of the Mobius. Thankfully, I happen to have a Mobius laying about, and can freely swap between the mics. Below are some examples of both the Penrose's mic, as well as the Mobius mic attached to the Penrose. Both through the aux connection to my Schiit Hel, as well as the wireless mode quality differences between them. Interestingly enough, there is quite a disparity between how the microphones sound through a wired connection, and how they sound wirelessly.



_Note: Please disregard any volume differences, and loud pops and sudden spikes, and background noise differences. That is all on me and my failure to get a decent handle on recording software and settings. Focus on just the voice quality. Forgive my lack of experience in microphone recording._







In wired mode, I feel the Penrose's mic is a gigantic leap in quality over the Mobius mic. Everything just sounds much more lifelike and fluid, whereas on the Mobius, there's a nasal tone to it. It's not bad, but you lose a bit of realistic tonality with the Mobius mic. Here, the Penrose mic really showcases an impressive jump in quality.





Due to wireless limitations, the Penrose's fantastic mic is held back a little by the compression and loss of bandwidth, resulting in somewhat compromised mic experience. That being said, the recent firmware update has DRAMATICALLY improved wireless mic quality output, where it's no longer overly muffled and blanketed. It may not match the wired mic experience, but I feel the quality here is more than enough for most chat purposes. If you want the best the Penrose has to offer, connect the aux cable to a wired source (i.e. your PC directly, or even better, an audio interface). It's a noticeable quality boost, and worthwhile if you're ok with being tethered. Otherwise, I think the wireless mode works well enough for normal use.



*Gaming*​


The vast majority of prospective Penrose users are mainly going to be interested in how the Penrose performs specifically for gaming purposes. Thankfully, with the advent of headphone-centric audio processing of Sony's Tempest 3D Audio and Dolby Atmos Headphone for Xbox, headphone gaming has become more of a focus for the new console generation. The Penrose benefits greatly from this, enhancing its total gaming immersion and positional discernibility.

As these technologies fall in line with how I prefer to play games (choosing virtual surround processing instead of plain old stereo), that's how I've mainly tested the Penrose for gaming. Most testing was done with Waves NX in Multimedia preset on PC, and 3D Audio ON when playing on PS5. Unfortunately, I don't play on Xbox, and was not able to test gaming performance there. Despite that, the Penrose does well with all main virtual surround processing technologies I use, and I expect no different with the Xbox in Dolby Atmos mode.

Most people I know will tend to choose open-backed headphones for gaming purposes, but there's something nice about having the feedback of a closed back, as well as the isolation it provides. Less external influence of sound contributes to a more personal, intimate experience, which is a wonderful strength of the Penrose. Playing games like Astro's Playroom on PS5 with the controller's haptic feedback and 3D audio was an amazing, immersive experience on the Penrose.

While the Tempest 3D Audio isn't as vast sounding as something like Dolby Headphone, its more intimate and attentive approach to sound works particularly well with the Penrose. It offers a laser like focus between you and the sound, which actually suits the Penrose more than the wider, bigger scope of  general virtual surround like Dolby Headphone. It's a new experience, and the Penrose in particular capitalizes on it more so than what I've grown accustomed to with open-backed headphones. I don't have the greatest gaming headphones on hand, but out of the few open-backed headphones I have on hand, none are as impressive with Sony's Tempest 3D audio as the Penrose. This leads me to believe the Tempest 3D audio will benefit closed-back headphones more. It's early times for the technology, and my opinion of this may change. For now, I think the Penrose is an ideal choice for Tempest 3D audio.

So with the Penrose you have great bass depth and dynamics, clear, sharp sounding details, and stellar performance with the new Sony Tempest 3D audio. In short, the Penrose is brilliant for gaming.



*Personal Recommendations*​

*Media:*

The Penrose is a vivid, detailed, and energetic headphone, which translates into a great time for all manner of general media. An impressive depth to its bass (though not bass heavy), excellent clarity, and dimensionality for a closed back headphone makes the Penrose a force to be reckoned with. It can even do analytical listening, or highly competitive gaming, though I'd steer the Penrose more towards the casual, immersive forms of content like action movies and games. With EQ preset customizability, you can force the Penrose towards whatever you want it to be, which wouldn't be too hard to tweak considering its great balance for all manner of media.


*Practicality:*

The Penrose is first and foremost as wireless headset made to be used with its USB wireless dongle. I'm not sure many people will want to take the dongle everywhere just to use its wireless mode, so I'd anticipate that anyone taking the Penrose out and about will likely use its Bluetooth mode. As it is limited to SBC and AAC, there are perhaps better options, especially if latency is a concern for you. I certainly wouldn't use it for gaming through Bluetooth. The aux input works in a pinch and sounds fine, but as the Penrose doesn't work passively, you're still having to contend with the battery powered operation at all times. Due to all of this, I personally recommend the Penrose mainly for home use. It's certainly versatile enough to do home, office, and portable duties, and while all of that is nice to have, it isn't ideal for the latter two. Keep it handy at home, or leave it at the office.


*Who It Is For:*

If you're tired of being tethered by wires, or don't want to use a dac/amp, the Penrose is ideal. They're mostly self-sustaining, meaning you don't need anything but the source. You'll need to charge it, and the dongle has to be attached to the console/PC. Asides from those two things, you're not restricted by gear and cables. There's a case to be made to perhaps use the AUX connection when you need to voice chat (due to its significantly increased mic quality). Other than that, the Penrose is good to go as is. No hassle, no mess.

The Penrose is aimed for consoles first so if you don't have a console, perhaps you may be better suited with other headphones and headsets. The Penrose for PC gaming is also a logical choice, despite sounding like a secondary use case. Really, it's for everyone who plans to game with it. Look elsewhere if bluetooth or wired uses are more important for you. The Drop Panda makes a better Bluetooth-centric headphone, which also has a passive wired mode that works just as well. So I recommend a Penrose if wireless audio comes first, and something else like a Panda for Bluetooth or optional wired use.

I also would look elsewhere if you're constantly needing to move the headphones from one location to another. It's portable enough, but not ideal.



*Comparisons:*​
The one comparison that will matter to most people here will be with that of its sibling, the Audeze Mobius. Despite their identical looks, they're actually quite different in main use case, and also of their inherent base tonal qualities. Whereas the Mobius is a warmer, (yet still linearly, balanced sound), which sounds meatier, more forgiving and upfront, the Penrose sounds faster, and more precise, more neutrally toned. It sounds a touch brighter and energetic, thought not overly stringent. Its object detail is more defined, and is given more space.

I can't say which is better because they're different enough to say that it falls under personal preference. The Mobius has more weight to the sound. More presence, as if things are bolded and fill up the space. The Penrose is leaner, quicker, and more reactive. If I had to say which is better for gaming, I'd give the edge towards the Penrose. The Mobius tonal balance is a little easier on the ears, as the Penrose has an upper range attack that may bother some. It's not peaky or harsh, but it's certainly not as soft hitting.

If you're on the fence on which to get, it should be based on your needs.


Mobius is mainly a wired USB headset for PC
Penrose is mainly a wireless via usb dongle headset for Consoles, though works just as well on PC
Both have bluetooth. Penrose is limited to SBC and AAC. Mobius has SBC, AAC, and LDAC which will have better bluetooth audio quality
Penrose's wireless mode is near lag-free, while Mobius has the lag penalty of bluetooth. This means Mobius in wireless mode is not good for gaming
Both are powered at all times even through the Aux connection. Neither can be used passively.
The Penrose has a higher quality mic, though the Mobius mic may sound less muffled when in wireless mode



*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes:*

Sound quality
Perceptively lag-free wireless mode
Bass depth and impact
Detail, Energy and vibrance
Wired mic quality
Stereo separation

*Dislikes:*

Certain headset functions or lack thereof
Bluetooth doesn't support low latency codecs
Initial clamp


*Final Impressions*​
Audeze has once again tackled the gaming market with a product that audiophiles can't ignore. Wireless gaming headsets aren't exactly known for their sound quality, and instead are mainly known for their convenience. Audeze has turned that upside down, giving the Penrose the sound quality one expected of wired headphones. Not just wired headphones, but audiophile headphones in general. I've tested various wireless headsets that utilize 2.4ghz, and none even begin to come close to the sound quality of the Penrose. I'd back that up any day of the week. Send me another wireless headset that sounds anywhere near this good, and I'd be absolutely baffled and surprised. To me, there just isn't any. And I don't mean bluetooth headsets. Bluetooth adds too much latency, which ruins gaming experiences. Even low latency codecs aren't optimal for gaming. The Penrose's wireless connection stomps all over any bluetooth connection in terms of responsiveness.

An area that need some improvements is the usability of its functions and features. Some of this will likely be addressed with firmware updates (which are already fixing various issues). Others will be things we'll have to grow accustomed to the more we use the Penrose.

So the viability of the Penrose will fall on your ultimate needs and necessities. Do you want one of best sounding wireless headsets? The answer is simple, the Penrose has you covered. Do you mainly intend to use it for casual, perhaps single player gaming uses? The Penrose has you covered. Do you intend to use it mainly for music? The Penrose definitely has you covered. Do you mainly intend to use it for party chat with friends? You may want to connect it via cable for the best possible mic quality, in which it absolutely nails. Does microphone use absolutely need to be done wirelessly? This is where you sacrifice some microphone sound quality, though it will work well enough.

Personally, I think the Penrose is a solid banger of a headphone that can function as a headset quite well. The biggest compromise is mic wireless quality, and it isn't enough to dissuade me from many, many great things going on with the Penrose. Despite the stipulations that comes with the Penrose, Audeze has another winner on their hands. Sound quality trumps all, and the Penrose has that in spades.


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## Rozzko

Lay. said:


> This. My better half just complains about me playing. Not once (during 10+ years) have I heard anyone saying that they are bothered by the sound. And HD800S are as open as dynamic headphones get.


Really? I tried Phillips fidelio x2 and my wife said that when she is working on pc 2 meters from me she hear all what is happening in my headphones


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## cobraR00

Is there a way to turn side tone up? When gaming on call of duty, the game audio gets loud enough I cant hear side tone anymore.


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## Sptz

Chastity said:


> I saw this on Reddit and I thought I'd share:



Does this mean no matter what (even if this workaround also works with XSX) that sound quality will always be worse than previous generations because of UAC1?


----------



## jameswhiteneck

@Mad Lust Envy Very awesome review, still working my way through it. As inevitible in something this long, I caught a typo in the Ear Cups section.

" The end result is that the *Mobius* sits comfortably on the skin, with an oval-shaped opening, keeping the ears from bottoming out and pressing onto the drivers or pressing up against the pad walls. ".

While that's probably true for the Mobius as well, it should probably say Penrose there.


----------



## trix3072

Is this better than the MMX 300 2nd gen?


----------



## Lay. (Dec 4, 2020)

Rozzko said:


> Really? I tried Phillips fidelio x2 and my wife said that when she is working on pc 2 meters from me she hear all what is happening in my headphones



I just asked out of curiosity. My wife said that she has not paid any attention if she can hear the sounds. My son said that he has to come really close to hear anything.


----------



## fbang (Dec 3, 2020)

Just received the G6. I'm very impressed with it all. Tried with the tempest in Demon Souls and it sounds awesome. Also tried with BF5 through the optical decoding and the SBX positionning is pretty amazing. Finally tried with Blade Runner 4K from my stand alone blu-ray player. My mind is blown.
As good as Dolby Headphone as my ears can tell but with more clarity.

(Note: My headphones are BeyerDynamics DT 770 Pro 80 ohms)

Now, I just need to buy longer optical and USB  cables. Is there a limit to the length I can use? They go from behind my media shelf, under the carpet up through my couch. Im stting at about 9' so I guess 15' should cover it.


----------



## Nominiel (Dec 3, 2020)

Nominiel said:


> Hmm... looking at that G6 deal on the official store...
> Is it a good deal to go for it and use it for PC (replacing an ASUS Xonar Xense sound card) and my future PS5 or does anyone have info, whether Creative will get some new DACs out there soonish? (looking at the usual CES spot in January).
> 
> In short, buy a G6 now or should I wait for other products?
> ...





AppleheadMay said:


> G6 is one of the most versatile devices out there for both consoles and PC and has ample digtal and anolog inputs and outputs.
> IMO it has rather decent headphone output but I prefer to send its optical out to a portable or desctop dac/amp.
> 
> In short, the G6 is a safe bet and well worth the money even at full price or more. Grab the deal.



Hmm... as I need a headphone amp anyway...
Would it still be a better investment to get the X7 instead of the G6? Or the tables turn?
Looking at Tempest vs VSS at PS5 and using it as a device on PC as well. (and I have some B&W PX next to my Beyers which would work too) My Asus Xonar Xense seems to have some problems  (clicks... everywhere clicks)


----------



## Alu

I just wanted to chime in about how great this guide is once again and how it lead me to buy the Denon D7k.
I found a literal pristine pair (no marks even on the headband, my mind is still blown) on ebay for 500 quid including import duties from Japan and these things are fun AF.

They offer just about enough isolation and the bass is glorious - a vast improvement over the Utopia for gaming for sure.
As promised, these are the bee's knees when it comes to just sitting back and letting your head get rattled - the visceral impact they offer is very addicting - and I do enjoy experiencing some music on them differently as well.
They won't replace my Utopes in that regard however, but these I will not part with.


----------



## kellte2 (Dec 3, 2020)

Nominiel said:


> Hmm... as I need a headphone amp anyway...
> Would it still be a better investment to get the X7 instead of the G6? Or the tables turn?
> Looking at Tempest vs VSS at PS5 and using it as a device on PC as well. (and I have some B&W PX next to my Beyers which would work too) My Asus Xonar Xense seems to have some problems  (clicks... everywhere clicks)


I think the consensus is that the X7 will sound better and has a more powerful amp with the capability of further enhancing the sound when swapping op-amps. That said, the X7 is not recognized by the PS5 over usb, so you’re not going to be using Tempest with it at the moment.

As an X7 owner, I have not heard the G6 myself, but I understand the differences in sound quality are not massive with the stock op-amp configuration. If you want Tempest compatibility and don’t need the speaker taps on the X7, the g6 is a no brainer.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> I just understood that the G6 has an optical output. So would this setup work for both SBX Dolby Digital (from my 4K player/Apple TV) and the Tempest from the PS5? (Basically adding my old Harman Kardon receiver so I can remote control. I would turn OFF Dolby Headphone processing on it)
> 
> 
> For Dolby Digital:
> ...



Yes, that sounds right. 
USB will give you stereo only (into which the Tempest VSS is mixed), optical gives you up to 6 channels (which DD is) and the SBX processing turns it into a stereo VSS for your headphones.

@Mad Lust Envy 

Wow, long review, just got home from work and it's terribly late here.
Need to go though a few mails here. but mailed a link to your review to myself to read in bed tonight.
Thanks for writing it, reallylooking forward to a nice read!


----------



## AppleheadMay

UrsusMajor said:


> Woah the sxfi amp works! But the ps5 will only send tempest or stereo via USB so you wouldnt be able to use sxfi's own vss right? Which I would assume would require a 5.1/7.1 signal
> 
> Also sorry if this is a stupid question, but would the personalisation with SXFI (pictures of ears and face) work with the tempest vss, or does it only personalise audio for use with SXFI's own VSS?



Yes, if you send Tempest, turn SXFI off.
SXFI VSS works with stereo signals as well, not sure if it would sound as good as SBX VSS which is based on 6 channels.
Don't turn on Tempest + SXFI at the same time, double VSS would sound off.
All in all, the SXFI Amps works on the PS5 but the G6 is still the more versatile amp.
As for X7, it doesn't work on the PS5 (as I read, I don't have one now) but even if it did I would still prefer the G6 going out to a DAC/AMP of my choice than the built-in amp in the X7. The amp is good and powerful but there are better things out there, albeit at double the price.


----------



## Chastity

My biggest gripe with the G6 is that the optical out is limited to 48KHz sampling rate, no matter how good of an optical cable you try.  I confirmed with Creative reps, and they asked the devs, who confirmed the 48KHz limitation.  (This started because Connect 2 has an info box that says it supports up to 96KHz)

My lesser gripe is that the DAC is a little grainy, and the headphone out port rolls off the a bit when using high impedance headphones. (The grainy sound becomes obvious when compared to my SMSL M300 MKII and it's AK4497)


----------



## Nominiel

kellte2 said:


> I think the consensus is that the X7 will sound better and has a more powerful amp with the capability of further enhancing the sound when swapping op-amps. That said, the X7 is not recognized by the PS5 over usb, so you’re not going to be using Tempest with it at the moment.
> 
> As an X7 owner, I have not heard the G6 myself, but I understand the differences in sound quality are not massive with the stock op-amp configuration. If you want Tempest compatibility and don’t need the speaker taps on the X7, the g6 is a no brainer.





AppleheadMay said:


> Yes, if you send Tempest, turn SXFI off.
> SXFI VSS works with stereo signals as well, not sure if it would sound as good as SBX VSS which is based on 6 channels.
> Don't turn on Tempest + SXFI at the same time, double VSS would sound off.
> All in all, the SXFI Amps works on the PS5 but the G6 is still the more versatile amp.
> As for X7, it doesn't work on the PS5 (as I read, I don't have one now) but even if it did I would still prefer the G6 going out to a DAC/AMP of my choice than the built-in amp in the X7. The amp is good and powerful but there are better things out there, albeit at double the price.


Thx for the quick replies. Hmm... okay... back to my (hated) Highter Technical school electronics education. Any issues with guarantee or how difficult is it to change those op-amps (or even get them... is it a component lottery, meaning buying x components and choose the right ones?)
Because that might sound like a "not worth it" .

So, without changing the op-amps, a G6 + e. g. a Beyerdynamics A2/A20 (or a Schiit whatever is good... I'm really new in Amps) might be a better deal (and even not that expensive...). even a Sound Blaster AE-9 was on my monitor, but that amp and sound card has some mixed reputation . Whereas, the G6 and X7 are quite well received.

As I don't have a PS5 yet, I might wait for my new PC as well.


----------



## fbang

I guess my question from a few pages ago might have been lost: Is pluggin the G6 with a 20 feet long USB and optical cable ok? I'm at about 10 feet from the TV but need more than that to circle the shelf, go under the rug and come out behind the couch.


----------



## kellte2

fbang said:


> I guess my question from a few pages ago might have been lost: Is pluggin the G6 with a 20 feet long USB and optical cable ok? I'm at about 10 feet from the TV but need more than that to circle the shelf, go under the rug and come out behind the couch.


Yes.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

AppleheadMay said:


> Yes, that sounds right.
> USB will give you stereo only (into which the Tempest VSS is mixed), optical gives you up to 6 channels (which DD is) and the SBX processing turns it into a stereo VSS for your headphones.


Do you get the G6 Dolby indicator light turn on?   I have USB connected to PS5 and Optical from LG C9 to Optical In ->G6.   
I stream Dolby content from the C9 apps but never get the Dolby light on the G6.


----------



## fbang

Galaxy Drifter said:


> Do you get the G6 Dolby indicator light turn on?   I have USB connected to PS5 and Optical from LG C9 to Optical In ->G6.
> I stream Dolby content from the C9 apps but never get the Dolby light on the G6.



is your TV set to output sound to audio system ? (And not to tv speakers)

Stupid question: I used the pc software to setup a profile and also set the “X” on top of the G6 to purple. But whenever I plug it in the ps5 it becomes red. Is that normal? Just want to make sure my audio settings are saved on it.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

fbang said:


> is your TV set to output sound to audio system ? (And not to tv speakers)


I am getting sound from the TV to the G6, I use it all the time with headphones.
But the TV is set to output to both Speakers and Optical Out.


----------



## Ted23

Good review for the Penrose. I liked the Mobius when I owned it but if I'm being honest I expect more in the build department at that price point. I think if wireless isn't something you absolutely need I wouldn't choose it over the PC38x.

I'm waiting on my G6 as I think the combination of that plus a decent headphone will be great for console and PC use.


----------



## fbang

Galaxy Drifter said:


> I am getting sound from the TV to the G6, I use it all the time with headphones.
> But the TV is set to output to both Speakers and Optical Out.


On my Sony if the sound comes also from the tv speakers it’s also coming out in stereo from the optical . I need to set it only to audio system to get Dolby digital


----------



## AxelCloris

fbang said:


> I guess my question from a few pages ago might have been lost: Is pluggin the G6 with a 20 feet long USB and optical cable ok? I'm at about 10 feet from the TV but need more than that to circle the shelf, go under the rug and come out behind the couch.


I do the same at 35-40 ft, so you should be perfectly fine.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

fbang said:


> On my Sony if the sound comes also from the tv speakers it’s also coming out in stereo from the optical . I need to set it only to audio system to get Dolby digital


Your right.  I set it only to Optical and now the G6 sees the Dolby signal.


----------



## fbang

Galaxy Drifter said:


> Your right.  I set it only to Optical and now the G6 sees the Dolby signal.



trust me it drove me insane an entire evening.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

fbang said:


> trust me it drove me insane an entire evening.


The thing is now the G6 Dolby light is on any time the TV is on, even with no content playing.  Even after rebooting all devices.


----------



## fbang

With DT770 80ohms should I still use Hi-Gain? I know the Lo-gain covers it but wondering if there’s an advantage


----------



## UrsusMajor

AppleheadMay said:


> Yes, if you send Tempest, turn SXFI off.
> SXFI VSS works with stereo signals as well, not sure if it would sound as good as SBX VSS which is based on 6 channels.
> Don't turn on Tempest + SXFI at the same time, double VSS would sound off.
> All in all, the SXFI Amps works on the PS5 but the G6 is still the more versatile amp.
> As for X7, it doesn't work on the PS5 (as I read, I don't have one now) but even if it did I would still prefer the G6 going out to a DAC/AMP of my choice than the built-in amp in the X7. The amp is good and powerful but there are better things out there, albeit at double the price.


I would assume that toggling SXFI off, on the amp, would also result in you losing the head-mapping benefits. 
So disabling SXFI essentially just passes Tempest VSS unaltered - as it would be via mixamp, G6, dualsense etc

In which case theres no reason to choose it over the G6

Personally I was hoping there was some way to disable to amp's VSS, but retain the head-mapping functionality to benefit Tempest VSS but I guess it cant work like that


----------



## Lay.

fbang said:


> Stupid question: I used the pc software to setup a profile and also set the “X” on top of the G6 to purple. But whenever I plug it in the ps5 it becomes red. Is that normal? Just want to make sure my audio settings are saved on it.



That is normal. The light color option only works with PC. Other settings should be saved.


----------



## Galaxy Drifter

AppleheadMay said:


> Yes, if you send Tempest, turn SXFI off.
> SXFI VSS works with stereo signals as well, not sure if it would sound as good as SBX VSS which is based on 6 channels.
> Don't turn on Tempest + SXFI at the same time, double VSS would sound off.
> All in all, the SXFI Amps works on the PS5 but the G6 is still the more versatile amp.
> As for X7, it doesn't work on the PS5 (as I read, I don't have one now) but even if it did I would still prefer the G6 going out to a DAC/AMP of my choice than the built-in amp in the X7. The amp is good and powerful but there are better things out there, albeit at double the price.


What I can't decide is about using G6 VSS on non-Tempest PS4 games.


----------



## jessjj

Why aren’t more peeps buying the x3 instead of the g6?


----------



## McCol

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Alright guys, here it is. I'm not entirely happy with it, but I tend to never be happy with my reviews and still need to commit and post. Just bear in mind that I may update and change a few things down the line, like adding the experience with the mobile software. But what you see is up to date otherwise.
> 
> *PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU SEE THE IMAGES*
> 
> ...




Excellent review but can I clarify something,
I’ve read elsewhere I need to buy both Penrose models to use on the separate consoles, you give the impression that the X version will also work on PS5, is this correct?


----------



## Nominiel

as far as I got it, the X3 only works on PC (via USB)
That's why I scratched it on my list of X7 vs G6 .


----------



## AppleheadMay

From what I read from reviews the X3 generally gets less good reviews than the G6. I have a G6 and never had an X3.
Although the X3 also has SXFI together with SB VSS I read someone recommending the combo of SXFI AMP + G6 over the X3 fopr those who want both (both VSS used separately of course, not in tandem).
I think the X3 doesn't have an optical in either and it doesn't work via USB with the PS5.


----------



## Nominiel

AppleheadMay said:


> From what I read from reviews the X3 generally gets less good reviews than the G6. I have a G6 and never had an X3.
> Although the X3 also has SXFI together with SB VSS I read someone recommending the combo of SXFI AMP + G6 over the X3 fopr those who want both (both VSS used separately of course, not in tandem).
> I think the X3 doesn't have an optical in either and it doesn't work via USB with the PS5.


exactly, no optical in!


----------



## Lay.

Galaxy Drifter said:


> What I can't decide is about using G6 VSS on non-Tempest PS4 games.



If you are playing with PS5, I would not worry too much if the game officially supports Tempest 3D or not. Just try how it sounds and use what VSS you like. 

CoD Warzone works just fine with both G6 SBX and Tempest 3D. I did not notice any difference in CoD Cold War Zombies with PS4 or PS5 version when using Tempest 3D. They both work Ok. Of course there will be differences how well Tempest 3D works in various games but you can still use it and benefit from it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

McCol said:


> Excellent review but can I clarify something,
> I’ve read elsewhere I need to buy both Penrose models to use on the separate consoles, you give the impression that the X version will also work on PS5, is this correct?


They must mean that there's only one usb dongle, so you physically can only connect to one console at a time.

I said innthe review that I tested both Penrose and Penrose X on PC and PS5. Had it not worked, I wouldve said as such.


----------



## fbang

Galaxy Drifter said:


> What I can't decide is about using G6 VSS on non-Tempest PS4 games.


The only game where I found the tempest better than sbx vss is Demon Souls so far.

I've been playing with it all night long and although I love the sound, I have two majors complaints in my current setup and wonder if I have a defective unit:

1- Whenever I switch sources (so example from USB to optical in from), the G6 will often remain lit but have no sound. I need to replug the USB and sometimes the optical input / headphone. (I have not found exactly what's the right combination). It's incredibly annoying. Sometimes I need to do this a couple of times.

1- It doesn't process DTS from my 4K player (I think that' normal). But I have lots of 4K blu-rays that only have DTS and my panasonic cannot downsample to Dolby Digital. So I may keep the Harman Kardon for this. (although it might have been related to issue #1. Not sure yet)

Anybody else experiencing this issue? I saw a thread on reddit than mentions USB powering down on PCs, but it's plugged in the PS5.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 4, 2020)

The PS5 has rest mode usb power settings where the ports can remain on, turn off after a few hours, or just turn off.

And yes G6 has never supported DTS.

If you wanna switch what's currently playing on G6, that's a ps5 setting as well. You may have auto switch off or on, hence why when you plug the usb it works again, the PS5 at that point is switching the sound device being used.


----------



## fbang

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The PS5 has rest mode usb power settings where the ports can remain on, turn off after a few hours, or just turn off.
> 
> And yes G6 has never supported DTS.
> 
> If you wanna switch what's currently playing on G6, that's a ps5 setting as well. You may have auto switch off or on, hence why when you plug the usb it works again, the PS5 at that point is switching the sound device being used.



Nah that's not settings on the PS5 side. Its set to always power the USB.  I think that the problem is when I put the P5 in rest mode, the power goes down for a few seconds (the G6 light turn off). But when they come back, the sound (now from the 4K player through the optical in) is now always registered.

Anyway I think I will just use the G6 for the PS5. We'll see.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> The PS5 has rest mode usb power settings where the ports can remain on, turn off after a few hours, or just turn off.
> 
> And yes G6 has never supported DTS.
> 
> If you wanna switch what's currently playing on G6, that's a ps5 setting as well. You may have auto switch off or on, hence why when you plug the usb it works again, the PS5 at that point is switching the sound device being used.



Oh I see what you mean about the auto switch on. Let me try that.


----------



## MichaelJames99

So while I wait for my Smyth A16 to arrive in the next couple years as it continues to be slow released... trying to find a better headphone surround processor than the Soundblaster 2019 G6 I have.  This will be used 100% for movies.  Any suggestions?


----------



## kellte2

MichaelJames99 said:


> So while I wait for my Smyth A16 to arrive in the next couple years as it continues to be slow released... trying to find a better headphone surround processor than the Soundblaster 2019 G6 I have.  This will be used 100% for movies.  Any suggestions?



the creative X7 probably has a better amp/dac than the G6, but it’s still outputting SBX. If you’re not a console gamer, I’ve read good things about the Sennheiser GSX 1000.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy 

If I had to describe your review of the Penrose in gaming terms I’d call it highly immersive without compromising soundstage in any direction.
One wonders why nowadays “professional” reviewers (be it in magazines, on the web or god forbid those hyped up YouTubers) fail to reach this level of review quality.
Sponsorship, marketing, money in general ...?


----------



## bitslacker

Fantastic review of the Audeze Penrose. My Penrose arrives next week. I’m coming from a Steel Series H Wireless so I’m curious to see how it compares.

I actually might be more excited for the PC38X but I won’t be getting it until Christmas. I’ve never listened to open back head phones before so I’m super interested in testing them out.

Lastly, all this G6 talk makes me want to pull the trigger and order one for use with the PC38X. I know the controller can drive the PC38X but what if I’m missing out on better quality with the G6 ya know? The G6 is only $80 refurbished right now...


----------



## fbang

The more I listen to the Tempest 3D audio with the g6 the more I like it. It feels a bit less “wide” than the surround through optical but i feel it also sounds a bit more natural. But the tempest really isn’t equal on all games. It sounds good on Miles Morales but a bit flat on Spider-Man Remasterered. But maybe I’m imagining things. What are your impressions guys?


----------



## jessjj (Dec 5, 2020)

AppleheadMay said:


> From what I read from reviews the X3 generally gets less good reviews than the G6. I have a G6 and never had an X3.
> Although the X3 also has SXFI together with SB VSS I read someone recommending the combo of SXFI AMP + G6 over the X3 fopr those who want both (both VSS used separately of course, not in tandem).
> I think the X3 doesn't have an optical in either and it doesn't work via USB with the PS5.


Seems to me the x3 works with ps5 - it recognizes it as the x3, and 3d audio is on.

update: for whatever reason plugging the pc38x into the controller sounds better than through the x3 so maybe something is wrong.

Also a/b testing the pc38x with the penrose on demons souls and I’m having a hard time finding anything I like better about the penrose. I know MLE said tempest sounds best on penrose so maybe I need to switch eq settings


----------



## fbang (Dec 5, 2020)

Still a couple of questions regarding the G6 (plugged in PS5)

- When using the SBX Surround feature, is there an advantage over using  the optical port vs the USB only? (assuming Tempest is turned off). I've tried both and the sound sounds the same. Is the Dolby Digital through optical mostly useful for movies?

- Whenever I use the laptop to set a new profile and plug it in the PS5 (where it seems to work fine), if I come back to plug it in the laptop the settings are always lost. It's like if it's crushing my profile with the "Gaming" profile for some reason.

EDIT: Rebooting my laptop solved that issue.

- I often hear random popping noises during gaming (and it's often related to sound coming from the rear). Did anyone experience this at all? With this and the random disconnecting, I'm just wondering if I have a defective unit.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Lay.

fbang said:


> - When using the SBX Surround feature, is there an advantage over using  the optical port vs the USB only? (assuming Tempest is turned off). I've tried both and the sound sounds the same. Is the Dolby Digital through optical mostly useful for movies?



PS5 does not output Dolby Digital 5.1 through usb so optical is needed if you want to use G6 SBX VSS.


----------



## fbang

Lay. said:


> PS5 does not output Dolby Digital 5.1 through usb so optical is needed if you want to use G6 SBX VSS.



Strange because turning on SBX with USB only does make the sound seemingly "surround". I can hear things behind me (note that that the 3D Sound is off on the PS5). But maybe it,s simply my brain figuring out that things are behind.


----------



## Nominiel

fbang said:


> Strange because turning on SBX with USB only does make the sound seemingly "surround". I can hear things behind me (note that that the 3D Sound is off on the PS5). But maybe it,s simply my brain figuring out that things are behind.


Maybe then, the SBX button only upscales the stereo sound into a pseudo VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes, it's just expanded stereo. It's literally taking from a 2.0 PCM signal.


----------



## fbang (Dec 6, 2020)

I ended up


Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yes, it's just expanded stereo. It's literally taking from a 2.0 PCM signal.


I wonder why some headset like the HyperX Cloud 2 can seemingly do VSS 7.1 over USB. (Or so the marketing on the box says!) although I have them and the VSS does sound like pure crap.
Édit: I guess it’s intended to work only on PCs


----------



## Rozzko

What type of audio output I need to chose?
Ps5+LG B9

I connect my headphones in the back of TV (3,5 jack) and run ps5. Audio goes to headphones, all is ok. But what type of sound I need to chose?
liner pcm
Bitstream dolby
Bitstream dts 

I noticed that when I select liner PCM and run Tsushima - the sound is not normal (voice only in left ear, and horse steps don’t hear while riding. When I switch to bitstream sound coming better.I hear horse steps and etc. ENVY, what is correct selection of this type of sound output? Bitstream or linar pcm?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> What type of audio output I need to chose?
> Ps5+LG B9
> 
> I connect my headphones in the back of TV (3,5 jack) and run ps5. Audio goes to headphones, all is ok. But what type of sound I need to chose?
> ...


Is Linear PCM, Bitstream Dolby, Bitstream DTS, settings for the LG B9 TV or the PS5? 
If you set the PS5 for linear PCM 2-channel (stereo) output, then set the TV for Linear PCM output, you will then get stereo (2.0) output to the headphones.
If you set the PS5 to output 5.1 (6-channel) PCM output, then the headphones would normally not pick up all the channels (plugged into the TV's headphone jack.
If you set the PS5 audio out to (5.1) Bitstream Dolby or Bitstream DTS, then the TV has to decode the Bitstream, but guessing(?) the TV can not process that audio into headphone surround sound, so limited audio to the headphones.
But I'm also making just making guesses.


----------



## fbang

After spending the weekend comparing Tempest 3D vs Soundblaster  SBX VSS vs the old Dolby Headphone VSS of my Harman Kardon, my conclusion is that the quality really depends on the source. In the case of Tempest, I activate SBX only to use the Equalizer and add a bit of bass. When I use the Surround through optical I set it 70.

My (personal) preference are the following:

- Demon Souls: Tempest. 
- Astros Playroom: Tempest
- Miles Morales: Tempest, but not by much.
- Any PS4 games: Soundblaster VSS
- Movies: Dolby Headphone

Honestly, to ease the setup in my living room, I will probably use the G6 only for Tempest through USB and whenever I don't like the sound I'll revert to my Dolby Headphone setup. I don't feel like passing an optical wire AND a USB wire all the way to my couch.

The bottom line for me is that Tempest is shaping to be very good. It's a bit less "wide" than the other solutions but I find the sound more natural. (the G6 feels slightly processed to my ears)  Hopefully it will become better over the coming years. Hope there's a more thorough test and setup  than just selecting a level while hearing rain.


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> After spending the weekend comparing Tempest 3D vs Soundblaster  SBX VSS vs the old Dolby Headphone VSS of my Harman Kardon, my conclusion is that the quality really depends on the source. In the case of Tempest, I activate SBX only to use the Equalizer and add a bit of bass. When I use the Surround through optical I set it 70.
> 
> My (personal) preference are the following:
> 
> ...


Are we sure the g6 is working properly with ps5? My x3 is recognized and 3D audio shows as on but the controller sounds better so I think something is wrong.

If anyone can point me to more resources stating the x3 does not work with ps5 I would be grateful.


----------



## fbang (Dec 7, 2020)

I’m 100% sure the g6 is working on the ps5. And Demon SOuls certainly sound  better through the G6 than from the Dualsense.


----------



## mindbomb

I'm thinking about picking up some noise cancelling headphones on a whim. My computer is quiet, but not inaudible. But the noise is low frequencies from 140mm fans, so I figure it should cancel really well. 

Has anyone done this? Will it work like I'm imagining?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 7, 2020)

Why not just get a really isolating headphone? Don't waste your money on noise cancelling.

The physical air pressure sensation discomfort from the noise cancelling is much, much worse than any noise, IMHO.


----------



## Nominiel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Why not just get a really isolating headphone? Don't waste your money on noise cancelling.
> 
> The physical air pressure sensation discomfort from the noise cancelling is much, much worse than any noise, IMHO.


That's what I would suggest as well. Try closed back or half open headphones with a bit of isolation. Or in-ears - however, you will lose some sound stage with some.
When it's really quiet, even many open headphones work with just a bit of volume. NC is just quite expensive and most don't sound that well. (I'm not that happy with my B&W PX and not a fan of Bose QC either)


----------



## mindbomb

Well, yea, I noticed that for music with my hd6xx, noise isn't an issue, because music basically has no dynamic range. Like, you aren't going to notice ambient noise if the audio is constantly loud. However, for games and videos, I think fan noise may be a significant bottleneck. Yea, I was looking at the bose qc. People are basically giving away the older models. But I don't even know if it will be effective in a home context. All the reviews talk about airplane engines and such.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Get Drop + ThX Panda. Closed back planars and completely isolated without the irritating noise canceling.


----------



## UrsusMajor

illram said:


> I will continue to sing this little device's praises. Love it. Sadly unless there is such a thing as an HDMI extractor with a USB output this thing will always be PC only.... (since consoles will never output surround PCM over USB...sadface)



See, I genuinely thought with the consoles removing the optical port, they would finally enable surround over USB this generation.
I just don't understand why they limit it to stereo - have Sony/MS ever given the rationale as to why?


----------



## JayL

I wonder if their ends up eventually being issues using the Penrose X on the PS5 if Audeze would consider selling just the PS5/Penrose dongle separately.

Assuming the dongle is the only difference


----------



## mindbomb

I had a change of heart on the noise cancelling. I figure the more fun project to embark on is to change the pc cooling to make it quieter.


----------



## Ted23

UrsusMajor said:


> See, I genuinely thought with the consoles removing the optical port, they would finally enable surround over USB this generation.
> I just don't understand why they limit it to stereo - have Sony/MS ever given the rationale as to why?



Sony certainly allows Tempest 3D audio through the USB I am currently using the SoundblasterX G6 for that. Microsoft I am very disappointed in especially since they had very consumer friendly practices with most of their business model this seems like a cash grab.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Ted23 said:


> Sony certainly allows Tempest 3D audio through the USB I am currently using the SoundblasterX G6 for that. Microsoft I am very disappointed in especially since they had very consumer friendly practices with most of their business model this seems like a cash grab.


Tempest 3D via USB provides 2 channels of audio


----------



## AppleheadMay

Ted23 said:


> Sony certainly allows Tempest 3D audio through the USB I am currently using the SoundblasterX G6 for that. Microsoft I am very disappointed in especially since they had very consumer friendly practices with most of their business model this seems like a cash grab.





UrsusMajor said:


> Tempest 3D via USB provides 2 channels of audio



I have the G6 connected to the PS5 for Tempest audio and power (USB power always on). SBX VSS button off, DD light is off.
The SBX G6 is also connected via optical to the TV. Both the PS5 and XsX deliver DD via HDMI which goes through optical to the G6. SBX VSS button on, DD light is on..
I can also set the XsX to HDMI Headphone via HDMI which gives me DAH or DTSHX via optical. SBX VSS button off, DD light is off.
I feed the optical out of the SBX to the optical in of an iFi Micro iDSD, allows me to use all my cans. Pretty nice sound.

Also receiving the Penrose today, I wonder how that one will compare.


----------



## Nominiel

UrsusMajor said:


> See, I genuinely thought with the consoles removing the optical port, they would finally enable surround over USB this generation.
> I just don't understand why they limit it to stereo - have Sony/MS ever given the rationale as to why?


My guess is, that they thought that everyone, who cares about audio, will either use Tempest or eARC anyway.
Not that versatile, but cheaper to produce.


----------



## Ted23 (Dec 8, 2020)

UrsusMajor said:


> Tempest 3D via USB provides 2 channels of audio



I'm not sure what you mean by this. How many channels of audio would you need for a headphone?

Tempest takes stereo audio and adds the VSS emulation that any other engine such as dolby atmos would add to it. From what I understand you don't get 7.1 channels as that doesn't make sense with headphones since they are a 2 channel source (which is why all the advertised 7.1 headphones are bs). So in effect this is how it is supposed to work.

They don't have it running through HDMI yet as I am sure they are still working on its 5.1, 7.1 etc, speaker encoding.


----------



## Oscillus

Nominiel said:


> My guess is, that they thought that everyone, who cares about audio, will either use Tempest or eARC anyway.
> Not that versatile, but cheaper to produce.


I already had to replace my monitor with one that has the ability to accept 4k as input and display it as 1440p because sony doesnt support 1440p... monitors that support this are extremely rare and now we also need eArc? That doesn’t exist on monitors at all to my knowledge... come on Sony


----------



## Ted23

AppleheadMay said:


> I have the G6 connected to the PS5 for Tempest audio and power (USB power always on). SBX VSS button off, DD light is off.
> The SBX G6 is also connected via optical to the TV. Both the PS5 and XsX deliver DD via HDMI which goes through optical to the G6. SBX VSS button on, DD light is on..
> I can also set the XsX to HDMI Headphone via HDMI which gives me DAH or DTSHX via optical. SBX VSS button off, DD light is off.
> I feed the optical out of the SBX to the optical in of an iFi Micro iDSD, allows me to use all my cans. Pretty nice sound.
> ...



Haha a lot of acronyms in there was a difficult read but that is how I am planning on eventually using the soundblaster with the xbox through my TV's optical port. Have you purchased an extended mini-optical cable that you like?

Also does the DD light mean anything on the PS5 console outside of movies? And a final question is it possible to turn off the VSS on the soundblaster and just have the equalizer running as I have tried turning it off but then it turns off the equalizer for me as well.


----------



## Oscillus

Ted23 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. How many channels of audio would you need for a headphone?
> 
> Tempest takes stereo audio and adds the VSS emulation that any other engine such as dolby atmos would add to it. From what I understand you don't get 7.1 channels as that doesn't make sense with headphones since they are a 2 channel source (which is why all the advertised 7.1 headphones are bs). So in effect this is how it is supposed to work.
> 
> They don't have it running through HDMI yet as I am sure they are still working on its 5.1, 7.1 etc, speaker encoding.


You would need 2, one left and one right. With Tempest basically the PS5 already did the work for you that the G6 otherwise would do, being mapping surround sound to 2 channels in such a way it is believable surround sound.

I would advice against adding even more surround simulation to that, even if it were an 8 channel output (which it’s not, because Tempest already did the work).

Tempest is not active on the HDMI output though so if you take it via the TV or intercept it with an extractor you should be fine using 8 channels for your own 3d audio simulation solution of choice.


----------



## Ted23

Oscillus said:


> You would need 2, one left and one right. With Tempest basically the PS5 already did the work for you that the G6 otherwise would do, being mapping surround sound to 2 channels in such a way it is believable surround sound.



This is essentially exactly what I was trying to say as well in my middle paragraph, and yes I don't want to add anymore VSS I only want the equalizer to work as that would allow me to apply a Harmon curved eq to my headphones on the playstation, which I would like to try out without the added soundblaster VSS but I have not been able to do this and was asking if anyone else has found a way.

Tempest isn't currently active through HDMI although Sony has promised this will be patched in eventually.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2020)

Here's things people need to understand between converting 5 or 7 channels into 2 channels (for stereo or headphones), and converting 5 or 7 channels into virtual surround into 2 channels.

There's extra procesing being done before the final result of getting the audio to become 2 channels for stereo or headphones.

Basic stereo. Most things, like your TV speakers will take a 5 or 7 channel source, and process that down to the essentials left and right audio. That's it. No extra processing being done. Whatever is to the left or right (regardless of whether it's in front or behind you), get thrown to one channel: left or right.

Virtual surround: Things like Tempest 3D Audio, Dolby Atmos for Headphones, Creative SBX, etc. These will take the 5 or 7 channel source, process that into a virtual processing that will emulate multiple speakers, and THEN process that down into 2 channels for your headphones. So yes, the end result is 2 channels, but the sound was processed to emulate multiple speakers.

So yes, just because someone says USB = 2 channels, doesn''t mean it's basic stereo. In the terms of Sony's Tempest 3D Audio, of course it's sending 2 channels to something like the Creative G6. Tempest 3D audio already converted the 5/7 channel source down to 2 channel before sending it to the Creative G6.

The only downside of 2 channel through USB for the G6 is that you won't be able to get the proper SBX experience, since SBX requires 5/7 channels to work properly (which SBX turns into processed 2 channel). This is why you want  the G6 to get the optical output of your TV or receiver (as long as they are sending Dolby Digital)  into the optical input of the G6.

If you're using Sony Tempest, you don't need SBX, if you're using SBX, you don't need Tempest 3D audio. And you definitely do not want to use both at the same time.

*
AT NO POINT IN ANY METHOD WILL YOUR HEADPHONES EVER GET 5 OR 7 CHANNELS, UNLESS YOUR HEADPHONE IS TRUE SURROUND, WHICH SUCKS.*


----------



## fbang

Ted23 said:


> And a final question is it possible to turn off the VSS on the soundblaster and just have the equalizer running as I have tried turning it off but then it turns off the equalizer for me as well.



Yes. I am currently using the G6 only through USB. The PS5 is doing the Tempest 3D VSS internally but I still use the equalizer only to add some bass.


----------



## Youcan1

Does the audio stream on the controller improve if you use the USB cord mode?


----------



## fbang

Youcan1 said:


> Does the audio stream on the controller improve if you use the USB cord mode?



I have no idea what you are asking. The audio is much better plugged into the G6 from the USB than from the Dualsense, if that's what you are asking.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

what USB cable do ya'll recommend for the mobius? From what i understand with the previous posts is it DOES work with tempest after all? My PS5 is pretty far from  my couch and the cable i have is too stiff.

I dont want to invest in new headphones, but the G6 i think is reasonable. Anyone have a feeling on how the G6 with the old maddogs would compare to just the mobius? with the PS5 and PC


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Youcan1 said:


> Does the audio stream on the controller improve if you use the USB cord mode?


That's actually a good question.

The PS4/PS5 controllers have two options, wireless and usb mode. There is a setting to change which is between the two.

I haven't tested audio through usb mode. This may very well fix mic quality through the controller.

I'll test that out soon.


----------



## Youcan1 (Dec 8, 2020)

fbang said:


> I have no idea what you are asking. The audio is much better plugged into the G6 from the USB than from the Dualsense, if that's what you are asking.



If you use your Dualsense wirelessly you are sending data via Bluetooth. If you plug in  a USB cord it will send the data via the cord for less latency. I have no idea if it affects the audio or not. The cord that comes with the PS5 is too short for me to test it out comfortably. I have no desire to buy another USB DAC since I just bought one not that long ago.

Assuming Sony doesn't update the functionality anytime soon I'm stuck with either using the controller or buying something like the Penrose.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Got the Penrose in and only tried it out for a few minutes.
I must say the amp in the Penrose is quite a bit more powerful than the one in the Drop Panda.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Ted23 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. How many channels of audio would you need for a headphone?
> 
> Tempest takes stereo audio and adds the VSS emulation that any other engine such as dolby atmos would add to it. From what I understand you don't get 7.1 channels as that doesn't make sense with headphones since they are a 2 channel source (which is why all the advertised 7.1 headphones are bs). So in effect this is how it is supposed to work.
> 
> They don't have it running through HDMI yet as I am sure they are still working on its 5.1, 7.1 etc, speaker encoding.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here's things people need to understand between converting 5 or 7 channels into 2 channels (for stereo or headphones), and converting 5 or 7 channels into virtual surround into 2 channels.
> 
> There's extra procesing being done before the final result of getting the audio to become 2 channels for stereo or headphones.
> 
> ...


@Ted23 I thought you were conflating Tempest 3D audio with actual pre-processed 5.1/7.1 signals. As I was talking about the USB limitation of the new generation of consoles for using VSS like SXFI and GSX etc

I'm fully aware that surround for headphones is 2 channels, of course it is! (unless you have a headphone with multiple drivers).

I was asking if anyone was aware of a particular reason why Sony/MS refuse to send 5.1/7.1 signals via USB - and by extension not supporting VSS solutions by Sennheiser and Creative and the like.

I use the optical method with my LG CX for Dolby Headphone, although that is limited to a 5.1 signal. Although I have heard that for VSS 7.1 doesnt confer considerable benefit over 5.1 but have never tested it myself


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> I have no idea what you are asking. The audio is much better plugged into the G6 from the USB than from the Dualsense, if that's what you are asking.


Does tempest sound better through controller or g6?


----------



## Nominiel

Oscillus said:


> I already had to replace my monitor with one that has the ability to accept 4k as input and display it as 1440p because sony doesnt support 1440p... monitors that support this are extremely rare and now we also need eArc? That doesn’t exist on monitors at all to my knowledge... come on Sony


They already mentioned in an interview that their audience is people using a TV on a PS4 - that's why 1440p is not supported. Therefore, relying on eARC actually makes sense. 
Still, they mentioned that maybe in the future 1440p will be a thing - likely, depending on how many people really plug in monitors instead of TVs. Again... meaning that the chance is zero.


----------



## AppleheadMay

jessjj said:


> Does tempest sound better through controller or g6?



Not only better but can be driven at higher levels. The controller on PS5 has a pretty weak amp.


----------



## Youcan1

Another question I have is whether headphones like the Shure Aonic 50 or Sennheiser Momentum 3 work when using a USB C connection directly to the PS5 console?


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> Not only better but can be driven at higher levels. The controller on PS5 has a pretty weak amp.



I concur. Although I found the controller surprisingly good (better than on the PS4), there's no comparison when plugged into the G6. I got used to the Tempest sound and now find it awesome personally. Hope more games uses it well in the future.


----------



## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> Is Linear PCM, Bitstream Dolby, Bitstream DTS, settings for the LG B9 TV or the PS5?
> If you set the PS5 for linear PCM 2-channel (stereo) output, then set the TV for Linear PCM output, you will then get stereo (2.0) output to the headphones.
> If you set the PS5 to output 5.1 (6-channel) PCM output, then the headphones would normally not pick up all the channels (plugged into the TV's headphone jack.
> If you set the PS5 audio out to (5.1) Bitstream Dolby or Bitstream DTS, then the TV has to decode the Bitstream, but guessing(?) the TV can not process that audio into headphone surround sound, so limited audio to the headphones.
> But I'm also making just making guesses.


Yeah I am talking about ps5 settings.

so what I need to select in ps5 audio settings for
Better sound of my tv? Choose ps5 linear pcm and tv also switch to this mode? Or I need to select beatstrem?

mad lust , maybe you can tel?


----------



## Petes67bird

Hi everyone.  Just got a PS5 and having some issues.  I use the Sennheiser Game One headphones and a very old Mixamp PRO.  I also have a 48 OLED CX series I just bought because I knew it would have HDMI 2.1 and optical.  I ended up plugging in the mixamp to the rear USB and the optical to my TV.  I initially had the PS5 in Dolby Digital but directional sound was poor.  I changed it to Linear PCM and it sounded a bit more directional but not nearly as good as the PS4.  Also chat sounds echoey if that makes sense.  Any idea how I can get this setup to work?  I would prefer not to go wireless and deal with the issues and loss of quality that presents.  Thanks!


----------



## fbang

Petes67bird said:


> Hi everyone.  Just got a PS5 and having some issues.  I use the Sennheiser Game One headphones and a very old Mixamp PRO.  I also have a 48 OLED CX series I just bought because I knew it would have HDMI 2.1 and optical.  I ended up plugging in the mixamp to the rear USB and the optical to my TV.  I initially had the PS5 in Dolby Digital but directional sound was poor.  I changed it to Linear PCM and it sounded a bit more directional but not nearly as good as the PS4.  Also chat sounds echoey if that makes sense.  Any idea how I can get this setup to work?  I would prefer not to go wireless and deal with the issues and loss of quality that presents.  Thanks!



Was the PS5 set to output to HDMI or USB? In your case I would think you need to output to HDMI. You also need to make sure your TV pass through the digital signal properly. On my Sony, I need to set the TV to output to "Audio SYstem" (and not TV speakers) else the sound comes out in stereo through the optical out.


----------



## UrsusMajor (Dec 9, 2020)

Petes67bird said:


> Hi everyone.  Just got a PS5 and having some issues.  I use the Sennheiser Game One headphones and a very old Mixamp PRO.  I also have a 48 OLED CX series I just bought because I knew it would have HDMI 2.1 and optical.  I ended up plugging in the mixamp to the rear USB and the optical to my TV.  I initially had the PS5 in Dolby Digital but directional sound was poor.  I changed it to Linear PCM and it sounded a bit more directional but not nearly as good as the PS4.  Also chat sounds echoey if that makes sense.  Any idea how I can get this setup to work?  I would prefer not to go wireless and deal with the issues and loss of quality that presents.  Thanks!


As the poster above has said.

You must set the PS5 to output via HDMI to the TV
You must also set the audio to bitstream Dolby on the PS5 audio settings

On the TV side of things, my CX by default was set to pcm, ensure you change this. Go into the audio settings on the LG CX firstly make sure it's set to Optical. Then make sure you have set the audio to pass-through and not PCM.

As an aside, if you decide to use 3D audio via USB remember to disable DH on mixamp

If set correctly it should sound pretty much the same as it did on PS4 - that was my experience anyway


----------



## Petes67bird

UrsusMajor said:


> As the poster above has said.
> 
> You must set the PS5 to output via HDMI to the TV
> You must also set the audio to bitstream Dolby on the PS5 audio settings
> ...


I will try all of this tonight when I get home from work, thank you!


----------



## fbang

UrsusMajor said:


> As the poster above has said.
> 
> You must set the PS5 to output via HDMI to the TV
> You must also set the audio to bitstream Dolby on the PS5 audio settings
> ...



You don't really need to disable 3D audio since it will be disabled when you select "Output to HDMI".


----------



## Petes67bird

fbang said:


> You don't really need to disable 3D audio since it will be disabled when you select "Output to HDMI".


Thanks, if this doesnt work then its time to try the penrose.


----------



## dakanao

Is there any way I could connect my Chord Mojo to the Turtle Beach DSS? The DSS has an analog input, and USB output jack.


----------



## UrsusMajor

fbang said:


> You don't really need to disable 3D audio since it will be disabled when you select "Output to HDMI".


I meant to say for USB, sorry. Via hdmi tempest is disabled -but when connected mixamp via USB you had the echoey chat sounds, it's likely double processing from tempest and then by dolby headphone.

So if you decide to use tempest audio via USB to mixamp, remember to diable DH on the amp otherwise it tends to sound rather bad


----------



## fbang

UrsusMajor said:


> I meant to say for USB, sorry. Via hdmi tempest is disabled -but when connected mixamp via USB you had the echoey chat sounds, it's likely double processing from tempest and then by dolby headphone.
> 
> So if you decide to use tempest audio via USB to mixamp, remember to diable DH on the amp otherwise it tends to sound rather bad



Oh ok. I didn't know the Astro MixAmp worked through USB.


----------



## jessjj

Can someone link me to the evidence of the sound blaster x3 not working with ps5? Want to try to get to the bottom of the issue


----------



## UrsusMajor

fbang said:


> Oh ok. I didn't know the Astro MixAmp worked through USB.


That's what I use for the 3D audio atm, it's detected by the PS5. And to me it sounds better than connecting to the dualsense, which is crazy as the mixamp itself is weak

I am curious though, what volume do you set on the PS5 UI? I'm currently setting it to max and then adjusting volume on my mixamp according to my needs


----------



## fbang

UrsusMajor said:


> That's what I use for the 3D audio atm, it's detected by the PS5. And to me it sounds better than connecting to the dualsense, which is crazy as the mixamp itself is weak
> 
> I am curious though, what volume do you set on the PS5 UI? I'm currently setting it to max and then adjusting volume on my mixamp according to my needs



If you are referring to me using the G6, the volume on the PS5 is almost to the max and I believe the G6 is about halfway through. Its on Lo-Gain using 80ohms BeyerDynamics. It,s loud enough. I can't imagine someone playing louder than that. They will screw their hearing within 10 years. I would say it's almost as loud as a movie theater (but not a Christopher Nolan movie which are always too loud .

Note that whenever I power up the PS5, the volume of the G6 reverts to a very low volume.


----------



## trix3072

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Latest Updates
> 
> 12-3-3030*
> 
> ...





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Here's things people need to understand between converting 5 or 7 channels into 2 channels (for stereo or headphones), and converting 5 or 7 channels into virtual surround into 2 channels.
> 
> There's extra procesing being done before the final result of getting the audio to become 2 channels for stereo or headphones.
> 
> ...


Hey MLE, I've read your guides and can I get some suggestions? I'm planning to use it both for music and gaming. My current AMP/DAC is the Topping D90 w/ RME ADI 2. I've been using the HD800s, but wasn't satisfied because I thought the positional accuracy was rather poor and didn't match my music taste.( I listen to rock, EDM, Hip-Hop, R&B, Pop, and some orchestral) My current budget for the headphones is about 2700$, if I sell my HD800s. I've been recommended the T1 2nd or 3rd gen, but I'm not sure. Can you give me some advice? 
When it comes to gaming, I play OW, CSGO, Tarkov, and PUBG so having both vertical/horizontal sound definement(also from the front and back) is really important to me. Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 10, 2020)

trix3072 said:


> Hey MLE, I've read your guides and can I get some suggestions? I'm planning to use it both for music and gaming. My current AMP/DAC is the Topping D90 w/ RME ADI 2. I've been using the HD800s, but wasn't satisfied because I thought the positional accuracy was rather poor and didn't match my music taste.( I listen to rock, EDM, Hip-Hop, R&B, Pop, and some orchestral) My current budget for the headphones is about 2700$, if I sell my HD800s. I've been recommended the T1 2nd or 3rd gen, but I'm not sure. Can you give me some advice?
> When it comes to gaming, I play OW, CSGO, Tarkov, and PUBG so having both vertical/horizontal sound definement(also from the front and back) is really important to me. Thanks!


You're kind of in the upper echelons of headphones, which even I haven't reached. I honestly though HD800S would be a positional monster. Perhaps you should be looking intop adding virtual surround, to truly allow yuoiu to get spatial awareness of when things are in front or behind you, and which direction.

Though in terms of the HD800S, that may be just your own preferences.

Maybe try something like a Hifiman Arya? Basing off how much I liked the Ananda, the Arya sounds like a great step to take.

I don't know about the Beyerdynamic T1, but that's a good bet too.

Other than that, not really sure what can offer such a positional accuracy like an HD800S.

Ah, some Mr. Speaker Ethers as well.

Sorry I can't really guage performance up there as I haven't heard them.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Used HE-1000SE.

Lasersharp imaging, very resolving, superb extension, rather bright, even got a 12khz peak. Very transparent, very low acoustic impedance.

Less wide than the Arya but as deep and tall and far more precise.


----------



## Chastity

trix3072 said:


> Hey MLE, I've read your guides and can I get some suggestions? I'm planning to use it both for music and gaming. My current AMP/DAC is the Topping D90 w/ RME ADI 2. I've been using the HD800s, but wasn't satisfied because I thought the positional accuracy was rather poor and didn't match my music taste.( I listen to rock, EDM, Hip-Hop, R&B, Pop, and some orchestral) My current budget for the headphones is about 2700$, if I sell my HD800s. I've been recommended the T1 2nd or 3rd gen, but I'm not sure. Can you give me some advice?
> When it comes to gaming, I play OW, CSGO, Tarkov, and PUBG so having both vertical/horizontal sound definement(also from the front and back) is really important to me. Thanks!


Considering your genres have you looked at the Klipsch HP-3?  Or something from ZMF?


----------



## Lay.

trix3072 said:


> I've been using the HD800s, but wasn't satisfied because I thought the positional accuracy was rather poor...



Gaming: I'm afraid that it doesn't get much better (imaging/positional accuracy) by changing the headphones. It can get a lot worse though. Like MLE said, adding virtual surround might be the way to go.

Music: There are tons of different headphones for music. I would try to find a store where you can listen differend headphones before buying them.

Usually people prefer bass heavy headphones with EDM and Hip-Hop. That is not good with competitive fps gaming.


----------



## Nominiel

yay... the G6 came and the VSS is way superior than my old Dolby Headphone via a Xonar Xense (at least in Apex Legends it was...).
However, is there any way to configure what "Direct" really does - e. g. for listening to music. Pressing the Scout button for a few seconds puts it into Direct Mode, but keeps 7.1 VSS. Therefore, I need to switch to Direct mode, adjust to stereo and afterwards back to 7.1 and SBX mode.


----------



## meringo

Just got the Turtle Beach Stealth 700 gen 2 for my Xbox -- almost entirely on a whim since I was upset with my previous microphone. I'm shocked. These are far better than I expected them to be for games and movies, especially with dolby headphone enabled. I don't feel as bad for missing out on the Penrose discount haha


----------



## aidylennox

UrsusMajor said:


> As the poster above has said.
> 
> You must set the PS5 to output via HDMI to the TV
> You must also set the audio to bitstream Dolby on the PS5 audio settings
> ...



This set up for me with a Mixamp Pro 2013 - makes the chat audio overwhelmingly loud. Using the mixer on the mixamp doesn’t help ‘mix’ it.
Almost like the chat and audio are combined.


----------



## Lay.

aidylennox said:


> This set up for me with a Mixamp Pro 2013 - makes the chat audio overwhelmingly loud. Using the mixer on the mixamp doesn’t help ‘mix’ it.
> Almost like the chat and audio are combined.



If you want to use MixAmp VSS and optical from TV: On PS5 remember to select  *Output to Headphones* --> *Chat audio*. This way you only get chat audio through usb and the game/chat mixer should work.


----------



## aidylennox

Lay. said:


> If you want to use MixAmp VSS and optical from TV: On PS5 remember to select  *Output to Headphones* --> *Chat audio*. This way you only get chat audio through usb and the game/chat mixer should work.



Yes I have this set up when using the mixamp as the audio output.

But when switching to HDMI - TV as the output; the option to do this is greyed out and the audio sounds as I described above.


----------



## Lay.

aidylennox said:


> Yes I have this set up when using the mixamp as the audio output.
> 
> But when switching to HDMI - TV as the output; the option to do this is greyed out and the audio sounds as I described above.



It might be the HDMI Device type. Try AV Amplifier.

These should be the correct PS5 settings when using Dolby Headphone and MixAmp. These are when using the ASTRO HDMI Adapter but I would try if they work with TV too.  


*Console Settings - Audio Output*

Navigate to Settings > Sound > Audio Output.

Change Output Device to MixAmp.

Change Switch Output Device Automatically option to On.

Under Headphones, change Output to Headphones to Chat Audio.

Change HDMI Device Type to AV amplifier.

Under AV amplifier, change Number of Channels to 5.1 ch.

Under General, change Audio Format (Priority) to Bitstream (Dolby).


*Console Settings - Microphone*

On the PS5 Home Screen, navigate to Settings > Sound > Microphone.

Change Input Device to MixAmp.

Select Adjust Microphone Level and adjust this on the next screen so when you speak, your microphone is within the good area.

Change Microphone Status When Logged In to On.

Change Microphone Status When Starting Chat or Broadcast to Don't Change.


----------



## aidylennox

Lay. said:


> It might be the HDMI Device type. Try AV Amplifier.
> 
> These should be the correct PS5 settings when using Dolby Headphone and MixAmp. These are when using the ASTRO HDMI Adapter but I would try if they work with TV too.
> 
> ...



Appreciate the help.
Have had it set this way predominately and it works, but just doesn’t sound the same as it did on PS4. Almost like I’m lacking some directional cues (especially on games like warzone - boxes are not as clear as once were etc)


----------



## Lay. (Dec 11, 2020)

aidylennox said:


> Appreciate the help.
> Have had it set this way predominately and it works, but just doesn’t sound the same as it did on PS4. Almost like I’m lacking some directional cues (especially on games like warzone - boxes are not as clear as once were etc)



No problem. Can it be that the TV is not outputting Dolby 5.1 via optical?

I have not actually tried my MixAmp Pro TR with PS5. I have the ASTRO HDMI Adapter though.

Have you tried the Tempest 3D yet?

It might not be perfectly optimized with Warzone but it works. Just need to use the PS5 system game/chat balance with this and turn off Dolby with the MixAmp button.

*Tempest 3D* *Console Settings - Audio Output*

Navigate to Settings > Sound > Audio Output.

Change Output Device to MixAmp.

Change Switch Output Device Automatically to On.

Under Headphones, change Output to Headphones to All Audio.

Under Headphones, change Enable 3D Audio to On.


----------



## aidylennox

Lay. said:


> No problem. Can it be that the TV is not outputting Dolby 5.1 via optical?
> 
> I have not actually tried my MixAmp Pro TR with PS5. I have the ASTRO HDMI Adapter though.
> 
> ...



I might do a test tonight after work with all the different setups and settings and post my thoughts here.

My TV is a Samsung NU8000 with a Sonos Beam connected to the HDMI eARC.
The mixamp’s optical is using the Optical Out.
The settings on the TV’s ‘Sound’ menu defaults to ‘Receiver (HDMI)’ and can’t be changed to ‘Audio Out/Optical’ whilst the Sonos Beam is connected.

In the expert settings I have:
HDMI Input Audio Format: Bitstream
Digital Output Audio Format: Dolby Digital
Both have the option for PCM too.

Unsure if this helps!


----------



## trix3072

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You're kind of in the upper echelons of headphones, which even I haven't reached. I honestly though HD800S would be a positional monster. Perhaps you should be looking intop adding virtual surround, to truly allow yuoiu to get spatial awareness of when things are in front or behind you, and which direction.
> 
> Though in terms of the HD800S, that may be just your own preferences.
> 
> ...


Oh, so if I'm going to apply a vss, what should I do? Do I have to get Dolby Atmos? Or is there a way to use SBX Scout Mode without using SBX products? I could move from the D90 to G6 sacrificing the audio...


----------



## Petes67bird

I am still having the same issue as above with all settings with my Mixamp and Sennheiser headphones.  I am close to throwing in the towel and ordering new headphones.  When I chat everyone says I am ear bleeding loud.  I go to game settings for COD and my mic volume and sensitivity is at 0.1, lowest setting.  Also the game/chat mixer does nothing now.  Chat volume for me to listen to is so loud without any adjustment possible.  Not sure what is going on, I have tried all the above settings to no avail.  I think it might just be the mixamp is unable to be used in a similar fashion on PS5.  Footstep sound is nowhere near accurate as it was on PS4 for the same game and same setup.

And what sucks now is that the Audeze is backordered until Mid January, so really that only leaves me with the Arctis 7P.  Any other better headphones yet?  I will never use the Sony headphones as the Gold headphones I tested on PS4 after so many people were like ThEsE ArE tHe BeSt EvA were trash.


----------



## aidylennox

Petes67bird said:


> I am still having the same issue as above with all settings with my Mixamp and Sennheiser headphones.  I am close to throwing in the towel and ordering new headphones.  When I chat everyone says I am ear bleeding loud.  I go to game settings for COD and my mic volume and sensitivity is at 0.1, lowest setting.  Also the game/chat mixer does nothing now.  Chat volume for me to listen to is so loud without any adjustment possible.  Not sure what is going on, I have tried all the above settings to no avail.  I think it might just be the mixamp is unable to be used in a similar fashion on PS5.  Footstep sound is nowhere near accurate as it was on PS4 for the same game and same setup.


Don’t bin the headphones! I’ll be doing some tests tonight so keep an eye out and maybe it might help you.
Failing that I’m heavily considering selling the mixamp and replacing with the G6!


----------



## fbang

aidylennox said:


> I might do a test tonight after work with all the different setups and settings and post my thoughts here.
> 
> My TV is a Samsung NU8000 with a Sonos Beam connected to the HDMI eARC.
> The mixamp’s optical is using the Optical Out.
> ...



On my Sony I had a hidden setting for Optical Passthrough. If I didn,t activate it, the sound was going through in stereo. (+ I had to set output to Audio System instead of Speakers)


----------



## Petes67bird

aidylennox said:


> Don’t bin the headphones! I’ll be doing some tests tonight so keep an eye out and maybe it might help you.
> Failing that I’m heavily considering selling the mixamp and replacing with the G6!


I have a mixamp pro from 2014, so its very old too.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Petes67bird said:


> I am still having the same issue as above with all settings with my Mixamp and Sennheiser headphones.  I am close to throwing in the towel and ordering new headphones.  When I chat everyone says I am ear bleeding loud.  I go to game settings for COD and my mic volume and sensitivity is at 0.1, lowest setting.  Also the game/chat mixer does nothing now.  Chat volume for me to listen to is so loud without any adjustment possible.  Not sure what is going on, I have tried all the above settings to no avail.  I think it might just be the mixamp is unable to be used in a similar fashion on PS5.  Footstep sound is nowhere near accurate as it was on PS4 for the same game and same setup.
> 
> And what sucks now is that the Audeze is backordered until Mid January, so really that only leaves me with the Arctis 7P.  Any other better headphones yet?  I will never use the Sony headphones as the Gold headphones I tested on PS4 after so many people were like ThEsE ArE tHe BeSt EvA were trash.


Are you in party chat or game chat? If you're in party chat then adjusting the mic volume in the game is pointless.

I had similar issues with chat volume when switching from mixamp on PS4 to PS5 but it's because the PS4 had individual settings for game volume and chat volume, whereas on PS5 it has been combined into one balance slider, meaning it's a pain to adjust because either my party is too loud/quiet or my game is too loud/quiet. You can exit party chat and just chat in the game but that then has its own drawbacks.

In terms of the audio quality so long as your PS5 is set to send dolby bitstream via HDMI, and your TV is set to send audio via optical, passthrough, bitstream - it should sound pretty much how it did on PS4, as the mixamp is receiving the same data it would have on PS4


----------



## Petes67bird

UrsusMajor said:


> Are you in party chat or game chat? If you're in party chat then adjusting the mic volume in the game is pointless.
> 
> I had similar issues with chat volume when switching from mixamp on PS4 to PS5 but it's because the PS4 had individual settings for game volume and chat volume, whereas on PS5 it has been combined into one balance slider, meaning it's a pain to adjust because either my party is too loud/quiet or my game is too loud/quiet. You can exit party chat and just chat in the game but that then has its own drawbacks.
> 
> In terms of the audio quality so long as your PS5 is set to send dolby bitstream via HDMI, and your TV is set to send audio via optical, passthrough, bitstream - it should sound pretty much how it did on PS4, as the mixamp is receiving the same data it would have on PS4


Game sounds good. Chat and game/chat mix inoperative. I am in game chat and the sliders don't help anywhere I have tried. My mic is super loud to my friends and people who are talking are super loud in the lobby. I just have to mute myself and everyone else.


----------



## fbang

With the G6 and 80ohms headphones should I use Lo-gain or hi-gain? Theorically the Lo-gain is enough but I remember reading somewhere that more power is better. Is that true?


----------



## RugbyPlayer

what USB cable do ya'll recommend for the mobius? From what i understand with the previous posts is it DOES work with tempest after all? My PS5 is pretty far from my couch and the cable i have is too stiff.

I dont want to invest in new headphones, but the G6 i think is reasonable. Anyone have a feeling on how the G6 with the old maddogs would compare to just the mobius? with the PS5 and PC


----------



## mindbomb (Dec 13, 2020)

fbang said:


> With the G6 and 80ohms headphones should I use Lo-gain or hi-gain? Theorically the Lo-gain is enough but I remember reading somewhere that more power is better. Is that true?



The power output determines the volume of the headphone. Even if you get more power with high gain, you will lower the power with the volume control to the same level. So only use it if you are close to maxing out the volume dial on low gain.

It's sorta like switching gears on a manual transmission.


----------



## fbang (Dec 13, 2020)

So I've been using the G6 with the PS5 (through USB-tempest and SBX-optical) for a couple of days now. Although the sound quality is excellent, I,'ve realize there's a sound delay when using outputting Dolby Digital from the PS5.
I've also tried with the PS4 and got the same issue.
Note that using Dolby Digital from my 4K player doesn't produce any lag with the G6,so the problem is not the TV's passthrough.

It's not the G6 either since my Harman Kardon receiver also has sync issues from the PS5. The only way I found to fix this issue is to Output DTS from the PS5 (which doesn't work with the G6).

I've tried playing with some settings on the TV (some Sync and Arc settings) which didn't resolved anything. Also tried using other HDMI inputs just in case.

I'm 100% sure the problem is the PS4/5. Even with TV Speakers the sound has a slight delay.

As I mentioned I'm pretty sure I had the same issue with the PS4 but just didn't pay attention to it, but now I can't unsee it after discovering perfect sync from USB or DTS.

Anybody else can confirm my findings?


----------



## Rozzko

Again, please help.
What type I need to chose on my tv when connecting ps5 to tv? I want to use tv jack 3,5 , what type of sound I need to select? On ps5 and tv.
Pcm or bitstream (dolby/dts) ?? What will be better and correct?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Again, please help.
> What type I need to chose on my tv when connecting ps5 to tv? I want to use tv jack 3,5 , what type of sound I need to select? On ps5 and tv.
> Pcm or bitstream (dolby/dts) ?? What will be better and correct?


Not sure if your TV can process Bitstream (5.1) audio, thru it's headphone jack.
Maybe set everything to 2-channel stereo audio (PCM).


----------



## tonov12

Anyone receive the email with tracking info for the Penrose X's?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Nope, here in Europe it’s delayed ‘till half January


----------



## ngower

Curious: if I were to use optical out of TV into an Asgard/Mobi DAC, am I losing anything up until the optical audio's lossy transfer? IF starting from scartch, are there any DACs compatible with PS5 that are not sacrificing/skimping on quality?


----------



## mac0172 (Dec 15, 2020)

Petes67bird said:


> Hi everyone.  Just got a PS5 and having some issues.  I use the Sennheiser Game One headphones and a very old Mixamp PRO.  I also have a 48 OLED CX series I just bought because I knew it would have HDMI 2.1 and optical.  I ended up plugging in the mixamp to the rear USB and the optical to my TV.  I initially had the PS5 in Dolby Digital but directional sound was poor.  I changed it to Linear PCM and it sounded a bit more directional but not nearly as good as the PS4.  Also chat sounds echoey if that makes sense.  Any idea how I can get this setup to work?  I would prefer not to go wireless and deal with the issues and loss of quality that presents.  Thanks!






Petes67bird said:


> Hi everyone.  Just got a PS5 and having some issues.  I use the Sennheiser Game One headphones and a very old Mixamp PRO.  I also have a 48 OLED CX series I just bought because I knew it would have HDMI 2.1 and optical.  I ended up plugging in the mixamp to the rear USB and the optical to my TV.  I initially had the PS5 in Dolby Digital but directional sound was poor.  I changed it to Linear PCM and it sounded a bit more directional but not nearly as good as the PS4.  Also chat sounds echoey if that makes sense.  Any idea how I can get this setup to work?  I would prefer not to go wireless and deal with the issues and loss of quality that presents.  Thanks!



Not sure, but wouldn't the adapter fix this: https://www.astrogaming.com/en-us/campaigns/hdmi-adapter-discount-page.html

I do hope so, having the same headset and amp but no ps5 yet


----------



## Petes67bird

mac0172 said:


> Not sure, but wouldn't the adapter fix this: https://www.astrogaming.com/en-us/campaigns/hdmi-adapter-discount-page.html
> 
> I do hope so, having the same headset and amp but no ps5 yet


It would if you do not have HDMI 2.1 capability to gain 4k@120hz.  I specifically spent 1700 dollars on a new TV to get HDMI 2.1 plus the cost of the PS5 and do not want my headphone adapter to limit me to HDMI 2.0B and 4k@60hz. At that point, might as well of stayed on PS4.


----------



## mac0172 (Dec 15, 2020)

Huh.
How is that?
Is there only 1 HDMI port on ps5


----------



## Petes67bird

I am using game chat.  I am thinking of buying the Arctis 7p until the mixamp is released.  I am not sure if I am sold on the Audeze Penrose as I have a big head being 6'6" and I am not sure wireless can hold a candle to my Sennheisers.


----------



## fbang

Petes67bird said:


> It would if you do not have HDMI 2.1 capability to gain 4k@120hz.  I specifically spent 1700 dollars on a new TV to get HDMI 2.1 plus the cost of the PS5 and do not want my headphone adapter to limit me to HDMI 2.0B and 4k@60hz. At that point, might as well of stayed on PS4.



I understand your point, but which games have 4K@120Hz? At that resolution and frame rate, everything else (textures, poylygon count, ray-tracing, etc)  will be sacrified no?


----------



## bitslacker

Have you tried the Penrose yet? I’m 6’6” with a pretty big head and the Penrose is just fine for me.


----------



## Petes67bird

bitslacker said:


> Have you tried the Penrose yet? I’m 6’6” with a pretty big head and the Penrose is just fine for me.


I literally just bought the 7p on Best Buy along with a PS5 for my nephew.  I will try the 7p, if I do not like it I will pass it down to my nephew.  I have messaged Audeze and they have not responded yet so I have not ordered it.



fbang said:


> I understand your point, but which games have 4K@120Hz? At that resolution and frame rate, everything else (textures, poylygon count, ray-tracing, etc)  will be sacrified no?


Cold War runs 4k@120hz


----------



## mindbomb (Dec 15, 2020)

Petes67bird said:


> Cold War runs 4k@120hz


iirc, only the hud runs at 4k. The actual game runs around 1080p in performance mode.

I would be concerned about variable refresh support though with that adapter.


----------



## Petes67bird

mindbomb said:


> iirc, only the hud runs at 4k. The actual game runs around 1080p in performance mode.
> 
> I would be concerned about variable refresh support though with that adapter.


Regardless I am not going to add a device to my setup that degrades it, doesnt make sense or future proof anything.  Astro dropped the ball with that adapter. I would pay 150 dollars for a HDMI 2.1 adapter or 200 for a mixamp that allows volume mixing on the PS5.  To me money isnt the deciding factor, quality is.


----------



## icyquail397

I have been reading through this guide and responses the last few days trying to push me into a decision. For non-competitive gaming, I have worked my way down between the Ananda and LCD-GX, anyone have thoughts on how to make the final call or experience in comparing the two?


----------



## ricardovix (Dec 16, 2020)

Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 plugged in a Sennheiser GSX 1000, but I want to get rid of cables. Because of that I'm looking for a Wireless Headset which I'll use ONLY for gaming on PC and PS5. After a research I found these options:

*1) Audeze Penrose*
*2) Logitech G PRO X Wireless Lightspeed
3) Astro A50 Gen 4 Wireless
4) Steelseries Arctis 7P
5) Steelseries Arctis 7 2017/2019*

Are they a good choice? Are they comparable to the HD 598?  Which one should I get?

Thank you!


----------



## Petes67bird

Are there any other rumors of other manufacturers making headsets for ps5?  I'd love to just have a compatible fully functional MixAmp type device without any picture quality degradation of hdmi 2.1


----------



## PlayStationPauly

For those that have the G6 set up, will the PS5 allow mic input from the DualSense controller and audio output via G6 simultaneously?

I know with the PS4, whenever the G6 was detected, it only allowed you to use both input and output from the G6. Was curious if they changed it for the PS5. Thanks in advance!


----------



## fbang

PlayStationPauly said:


> For those that have the G6 set up, will the PS5 allow mic input from the DualSense controller and audio output via G6 simultaneously?
> 
> I know with the PS4, whenever the G6 was detected, it only allowed you to use both input and output from the G6. Was curious if they changed it for the PS5. Thanks in advance!


I haven’t actually tried chatting but yes I’m pretty sure you can select the controller as the input and the g6 as the output.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Good news over the past few days - my Creative G6 warranty replacement arrived.

Bad news - I can't get on with the Penrose - in particular the comfort across the top of the head. Plus, having used the G6 with the Beyer Tygr R on Warzone, I realise only Open Backed will do - the Penrose are still too closed/congested sounding to make that game enjoyable for me when playing in a party.

Seems I'm destined to have to stick to a cabled PS5 solution (until someone makes an open backed wireless headset  )


----------



## Petes67bird

WhiteHartMart said:


> Good news over the past few days - my Creative G6 warranty replacement arrived.
> 
> Bad news - I can't get on with the Penrose - in particular the comfort across the top of the head. Plus, having used the G6 with the Beyer Tygr R on Warzone, I realise only Open Backed will do - the Penrose are still too closed/congested sounding to make that game enjoyable for me when playing in a party.
> 
> Seems I'm destined to have to stick to a cabled PS5 solution (until someone makes an open backed wireless headset  )


what is wrong in warzone?  are the footsteps bad?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Petes67bird said:


> what is wrong in warzone?  are the footsteps bad?



It's probably a combination of Warzone audio in general plus the closed back nature of the Penrose.  I just prefer the open backed headphone sound in games like this - just feels much more natural and believable which for me makes it easier to hear and place important sounds like footsteps. Not really a criticism of the Penrose it's just that everything sounds to me like its between my ears whereas the Tygr R and PC38x I have are much, much wider/more expansive.


----------



## Petes67bird

WhiteHartMart said:


> It's probably a combination of Warzone audio in general plus the closed back nature of the Penrose.  I just prefer the open backed headphone sound in games like this - just feels much more natural and believable which for me makes it easier to hear and place important sounds like footsteps. Not really a criticism of the Penrose it's just that everything sounds to me like its between my ears whereas the Tygr R and PC38x I have are much, much wider/more expansive.


Thank you.  I use the Game One plus mixamp currently.  I have the Penrose that will hopefully be delivered today and the 7p delivered on Monday.  I have only used open headphones as well.   I will let you know what I think as it seems we have similar setups.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Petes67bird said:


> Thank you.  I use the Game One plus mixamp currently.  I have the Penrose that will hopefully be delivered today and the 7p delivered on Monday.  I have only used open headphones as well.   I will let you know what I think as it seems we have similar setups.



Yea, I've had Game Ones, PC37x, and the PC38x among other open backed headphones.  Maybe I just need more time with the Penrose?  Enjoy your testing!!


----------



## jessjj

WhiteHartMart said:


> Yea, I've had Game Ones, PC37x, and the PC38x among other open backed headphones.  Maybe I just need more time with the Penrose?  Enjoy your testing!!


What do prefer between the tygr and pc38x? Really enjoying the pc38x and want to compare to the tygr


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 19, 2020)

Wish the Tygr had a detachable cable.

I honestly think it's inexcusable nowadays for cables to be permanently affixed to headphones. Cheap ones, fine, but audiophile Headphones should be detachable, period. 3.5mm ideally.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

jessjj said:


> What do prefer between the tygr and pc38x? Really enjoying the pc38x and want to compare to the tygr



I'll have to go back and listen back to back to be more precise on this but I can't pick one or the other really. Then again, if I already had one of them now, I'm not sure it's worth getting the other.

Things I like the Tygr for are the less forward mids, comfort and its ability with music also.  The PC38x is just more convenient with the flip to mute mic etc, easier to drive (if I just want to use the PS% controller) and in fps games might just edge it in hearing audio cues around you.  Then again, I think the Tygr is a better all rounder personally with its sound suiting other genres better for me.

If I was only buying one now (and it had a removable cable) it would be the Tygr no doubt.  As it is I'd say just enjoy your PC38x  



Mad Lust Envy said:


> Wish the Tygr had a detachable cable.
> 
> I honestly think it's inexcusable nowadays for cables to be permanently affixed to headphones. Cheap ones, fine, but audiophile Headphones should be detachable, period. 3.5mm ideally.



Completely agree - hate attached cables so I got my Tygr modded with a 3.5mm input.  Makes such a difference for me - can use my VModa Boompro or Beyer Mic to turn it easily into a headset. Shouldn't have to sort this myself though - Beyer are marketing more at the streamer market I think (with the bundle they have with desktop mic). They could grab a huge part of the Sennheiser/Drop market imho if they bundled it with a boom mic like the Custom Game etc.


----------



## mac0172

WhiteHartMart said:


> It's probably a combination of Warzone audio in general plus the closed back nature of the Penrose.  I just prefer the open backed headphone sound in games like this - just feels much more natural and believable which for me makes it easier to hear and place important sounds like footsteps. Not really a criticism of the Penrose it's just that everything sounds to me like its between my ears whereas the Tygr R and PC38x I have are much, much wider/more expansive.


 
It might also be the update.
Me and teammates are all finding it difficult lately


----------



## ricardovix (Dec 19, 2020)

Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 plugged in a Sennheiser GSX 1000, but I want to get rid of cables, so I'm looking for a Wireless Headset for gaming on PC and PS5 (single player 99% of the time). After a research I found these options:

*1) Audeze Penrose*
*2) Logitech G PRO X Wireless Lightspeed
3) Astro A50 Gen 4 Wireless
4) Steelseries Arctis 7P
5) Steelseries Arctis 7 2017/2019*

Are they a good choice? Are they comparable to the HD 598? Which one should I get?

Thank you!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Penrose.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 plugged in a Sennheiser GSX 1000, but I want to get rid of cables, so I'm looking for a Wireless Headset for gaming on PC and PS5 (single player 99% of the time). After a research I found these options:
> 
> *1) Audeze Penrose*
> *2) Logitech G PRO X Wireless Lightspeed
> ...



Out of those options, as mentioned above, Penrose no doubt. As for comparable to the HD598 - not so sure. Not better or worse but different.


----------



## bitslacker

ricardovix said:


> Guys, I have a Sennheiser HD 598 plugged in a Sennheiser GSX 1000, but I want to get rid of cables, so I'm looking for a Wireless Headset for gaming on PC and PS5 (single player 99% of the time). After a research I found these options:
> 
> *1) Audeze Penrose*
> *2) Logitech G PRO X Wireless Lightspeed
> ...


Agreed, Penrose. Really loving mine. If you’re on PS5, make sure to toggle 3D audio on or off depending on the game. I hated 3D audio on with AC Valhalla but it’s great with Astro, Demons souls, or Spider-Man mm.

I’ve had top of the line from SteelSeries and while I thought it was pretty good, it just can’t compare to the Penrose.


----------



## bitslacker

Have any of you Penrose users noticed pressure changes between songs? It's enough to bother me occasionally. I notice it most when skipping from one song to another. Any way to get around this?

Details: Listening via Spotify app on iOS over Bluetooth on Audeze Penrose


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Petes67bird said:


> what is wrong in warzone?  are the footsteps bad?



Quick update - might be obvious but these seem to sensitive to how they sit around your ear - just the slightest of adjustment to the angle at which the earcups surround your ear can have a significant impact on clamp/feel and to a certain degree, sound.

I remembered that I didn't like Warzone with 3d audio on as it muddied the sound to me - can't remember though if my Penrose testing on PS5 was with this on or off so will test again to make sure.

Was convinced earlier I'd get these returned but listening to some music via Bluetooth today wants me to get them to work for me.


----------



## Krbass

So I just ordered the ath-ad900x to go with my mixamp. My son actually took over my ad700s and I found a deal online for the ad900x for 69.99 usd. The one thing I'm debating is what mic I should get, I had an antlion back in the day but it did not stick to the ad700s so well and I've been looking at some of the cheaper stand alone mics like the razer siren mini. My only concern with the razer or similar is how much background noise it may pick up, any recommendations?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Krbass said:


> So I just ordered the ath-ad900x to go with my mixamp. My son actually took over my ad700s and I found a deal online for the ad900x for 69.99 usd. The one thing I'm debating is what mic I should get, I had an antlion back in the day but it did not stick to the ad700s so well and I've been looking at some of the cheaper stand alone mics like the razer siren mini. My only concern with the razer or similar is how much background noise it may pick up, any recommendations?


Check out the Modmic.


----------



## Krbass

PurpleAngel said:


> Check out the Modmic.


I had one many years ago and had issues with it sticking. Anyone ever use the wireless one? 

I like the idea of a mic with boom arm so I can swing it away when not in use. A corded modmic would be tough to ever remove since I'd want to run the cables together.


----------



## WeeWoo

Hello, I have both the creative x7 and e5. I actually haven’t used the e5 virtual surround but I suspect it’s the same as the x7? I currently use the x7 as my main headphone dac/amp for my dt990 pros and use sbx virtual surround for gaming. My question is this. I saw sound blaster command was added to the g6. I think this adds superxfi virtual surround to it from the x3. Is the surround improvements worth picking one up for?   I am quite surprised that none of these updates came to the x7 considering it’s still one of their flagships.

thanks


----------



## AppleheadMay

SB Command wasn't added to the G6, the G6 was added to SB Command.
G6 continues to produce SBX VSS, it does not get SXFI by controlling it with different software.
You could use an SXFI amp for that.


----------



## Rozzko

Does anyone playing with these headphones, what impression? PS4/ps5 
1) campfire audio Andromeda
2) sony wh-1000xm3 (with 3,5 jack connection) 

thanks.


----------



## Krbass

PurpleAngel said:


> Check out the Modmic.



I watched a ton of youtube videos and it looks like the modmic is still the best bet, I had one years ago when the company first started. I grabbed the uni but I also ordered the wireless one to try out, got to love amazon.


----------



## jessjj

So I just tested the Sound Blaster x3 up against the g6 on the ps5 and pc in a variety of games using the pc38x and Fidelio x2's.

On PC, the g6 is the clear winner. There's so much more GIRTH to the bass and there is more fullness to the overall sound.

On PS5 the g6 may be better than the x3 but neither sound as good as the headphones plugged into the controller. I'm not sure why this is. I had both the g6 and x3 plugged into the back USB ports of the ps5 but they just can't match the bass, sound separation, and clarity of the headphones directly into the controller.


----------



## Petes67bird

jessjj said:


> So I just tested the Sound Blaster x3 up against the g6 on the ps5 and pc in a variety of games using the pc38x and Fidelio x2's.
> 
> On PC, the g6 is the clear winner. There's so much more GIRTH to the bass and there is more fullness to the overall sound.
> 
> On PS5 the g6 may be better than the x3 but neither sound as good as the headphones plugged into the controller. I'm not sure why this is. I had both the g6 and x3 plugged into the back USB ports of the ps5 but they just can't match the bass, sound separation, and clarity of the headphones directly into the controller.


That's weird. The Game One Sennheiser headphones sound terrible on the controller and better on my MixAmp on the PS5


----------



## jessjj

Petes67bird said:


> That's weird. The Game One Sennheiser headphones sound terrible on the controller and better on my MixAmp on the PS5


How do you have the mixamp hooked up? and is it able to get you 3d audio?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Same here, any phones sound underpowered out of the PS5 controller while fine out of the G6.
I do use an extra portable dac/amp for some phones though.


----------



## Lay.

I ordered  Audeze Penrose couple of days a go. It said 6-8 weeks delivery time but oddly enough they are here. 

They will be Christmas present for my son but I'm curious to test how they perform.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Lay. said:


> I ordered  Audeze Penrose couple of days a go. It said 6-8 weeks delivery time but oddly enough they are here.
> 
> They will be Christmas present for my son but I'm curious to test how they perform.




I'm very satisfied with them but keep in mind I'm only interested in immersion.


----------



## Wintersun2015

Do you guys knows where to find Beyers TYGR 300r in EU ? Amazon doesnt have it & the Beyer website doesnt ship to Italy


----------



## AppleheadMay

https://europe.beyerdynamic.com/tygr-300-r.html

https://www.alternate.be/beyerdynamic/Team-TYGR-gaming-headset/html/product/1495058

https://www.tonecontrol.nl/beyerdynamic-team-tygr

https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B07KTG74S7/ref=asc_df_B07KTG74S71608347400000/

https://www.amazon.de/beyerdynamic-headphones-microphone-suitable-console/dp/B07KTG74S7/


----------



## Wintersun2015

Thanks man,but most of the links are the bundle with the Mic & as i said the Beyerdynamic website doesn't ship to my country 

Its so hard to find only the headphone...


----------



## mac0172

Wintersun2015 said:


> Thanks man,but most of the links are the bundle with the Mic & as i said the Beyerdynamic website doesn't ship to my country
> 
> Its so hard to find only the headphone...



https://www.amazon.nl/Beyerdynamic-...dtelefoon-bekabeld-PS4-console/dp/B07XYG56HS/


----------



## Sptz

Hi all,

Whenever I played games (PC) I've always used my ATH M50s, doing so now on the XSX the 3.5mm controller audio is VERY noticeably worse, there's obvious lower bitrate transmission happening here, similar to lower quality bluetooth transmission.

With that in mind, I don't care for competitiveness, I care for excellent audio quality. Period, don't even play COD or anything like that. With that in mind, I know the Penrose X are the 1st in line but what about something cheaper like the Arctis 7x? Are they substantially worse? 

Only reason I'm shrugging off Penrose is price and mostly delays and all the gigantic list of issues I've seen in its own thread.


----------



## Krbass

I'm hoping I made the right choice with the ad900x and the creative g6 for the PC. Used to have the ad700x but my son kinda took them over. My wife got me astro a40s from woot a while back but they sound awful to my ears.


----------



## fbang

jessjj said:


> So I just tested the Sound Blaster x3 up against the g6 on the ps5 and pc in a variety of games using the pc38x and Fidelio x2's.
> 
> On PC, the g6 is the clear winner. There's so much more GIRTH to the bass and there is more fullness to the overall sound.
> 
> On PS5 the g6 may be better than the x3 but neither sound as good as the headphones plugged into the controller. I'm not sure why this is. I had both the g6 and x3 plugged into the back USB ports of the ps5 but they just can't match the bass, sound separation, and clarity of the headphones directly into the controller.


I totally disagree with this. I’m using demon souls and through the g6 the sound has much depth. Did you turn off SBX?


----------



## KamikazeIce

fbang said:


> I totally disagree with this. I’m using demon souls and through the g6 the sound has much depth. Did you turn off SBX?



I thought everything in Astro, Spider-Man and Demon's Souls was sounding great... then I played Bugsnax. Something sounds wrong, perhaps it's just the game?

The voices, and only voices, sounded... weird. Some vocal lines sounded like they were recorded with either different mics or in a different room. The difference was distracting.
Played with settings, played with EQ settings.
Tried USB, 3.5mm from DualSense controller to G6 and compared to VSS sound (SBX) via HDMI-optical splitter (no eARC on my 2016 oled). Referencing the audio balancing with VSS to compare how it sounded thru Tempest with my G6 setup made it pretty apparent that something was afoot.


I had SBX set to 0 (and not disabled). Even with Surround (SBX) set to 0 it was still expanding the stereo signal from Tempest which screwed with some of the voice tracks.

I upgraded from Sound Blaster Connect2 to Sound Blaster Command.
I found in order to KEEP EQ SETTINGS for USB mode (for PS5) I need to do the following:
1) Enable Crystalizer
2) Set Crystalizer to 0 (so it does nothing)
3) Disable Surround (Not set to 0!)
4) Set EQ as needed


Normally Surround (SBX) is at 100, with everything else disabled (crystalizer, bass, smart volume, dialog+), and the only other thing I use is the EQ settings.
With Sound Blaster Command software, the last "item"  cannot be disabled (item = Surround, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart Volume, Dialog+).
Surround = 0 is NOT the same as Surround = Disabled
Crystalizer = 0 is the same as Crystalizer = Disabled.
Disabling SBX (the profile) = EQ gets turned off as well.

Now when I disconnect the G6 from my PC to be used on the PS5 all I need to do is disable Surround, leave Crystalizer at 0, and no more fumbling with settings when switching between PS5 and PC/other consoles.



TL;DR: Be careful with SBX/Surround setting. 0 is not the same as Disabled/off.


----------



## AxelCloris

KamikazeIce said:


> The voices, and only voices, sounded... weird. Some vocal lines sounded like they were recorded with either different mics or in a different room.


You likely nailed that one dead on. It happens a lot in games where a re-recorded line sounds different from everything else around it. You can also find situations where some voice talent records at home while others go to a studio. The DLC for Assassin's Creed: Odyssey was chock full of those mismatches. You'd have two people talking and one would sound fine while the other sounded like they were talking over a cellular connection with a cheap bluetooth headset.

It's probably the game's fault. I wouldn't worry about it too much since you had good luck with the other titles.


----------



## Max Bellum

I just did a test of the top three for the PS5; Steelseries ARCTIS 7P vs Audeze Penrose vs Sony Pulse. Let me start with I am neither paid nor given any equipment to test by any vendor – I do this for myself and out of my own pocket with no axe to grind for any vendor. My review is based on 28 hours of game time with each headset having at least 4+ hours of review.

The answer which surprised even me was – Sony. I tried all three playing Call of Duty (COD) Warzone and Borderlands 3. 

*Sony Pulse 3D wireless* – while they trend towards a heavier bass which you cannot control, the airiness of it was very good and it did an exceptional job on the 3d and the general effects of the games. You felt like you were in the middle of things. This represented itself the best in games like COD; In one episode of COD, I was snipping with another player both of us long distance, both on the ground with him on my right and he was shot first and I could hear the bullet hit and his expire right next to my ear – it was both impressive and uncanny. When you’re in buildings and someone is upstairs **only Sony** seems to be able to create the 3d effect of knowing which direction the feet are traveling / what corner of the room upstairs they are in (Nuketown is an exceptional example of this) No headphones I’ve listened to have ever done as good a job as this in bringing the game to you and making you feel part of the experience like the Sony Pulse have. I tried all 3 in almost the exact same situations and Sony easily bested the other 2. I found myself over the course of playing going back to the Sony’s to play in because the quality of the game experience was so much better.









HD800S – Favorite for critical listening

Focal Utopia – Favorite for personal enjoyment

Shure Se946 – Commuters/daily

Sony WH-1000XM3 - Flying


----------



## KamikazeIce

AxelCloris said:


> You likely nailed that one dead on. It happens a lot in games where a re-recorded line sounds different from everything else around it. You can also find situations where some voice talent records at home while others go to a studio. The DLC for Assassin's Creed: Odyssey was chock full of those mismatches. You'd have two people talking and one would sound fine while the other sounded like they were talking over a cellular connection with a cheap bluetooth headset.
> 
> It's probably the game's fault. I wouldn't worry about it too much since you had good luck with the other titles.



I'm not sure this was the case for what I heard. I'm talking about from one line to the next of the same dialog (where it would not make any sense to re-record most of the lines another day with different equipment. I'm talking about a single voice actor and their lines sounding strange from one to the next, not different characters/voices sounding as if they were recorded with different equipment or times (like Freedom Planet, each voice actor had their own equipment).

I don't really know how to explain it, but it's something with that game for sure. Better or for worse it helped me fix an issue with my setup so cheers!


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Dec 22, 2020)

Max Bellum said:


> I just did a test of the top three for the PS5; Steelseries ARCTIS 7P vs Audeze Penrose vs Sony Pulse. Let me start with I am neither paid nor given any equipment to test by any vendor – I do this for myself and out of my own pocket with no axe to grind for any vendor. My review is based on 28 hours of game time with each headset having at least 4+ hours of review.
> 
> The answer which surprised even me was – Sony. I tried all three playing Call of Duty (COD) Warzone and Borderlands 3.
> 
> ...



Just goes to show how sound is so individual - I tested the Pulse 3d v Penrose v PC38x v Tygr 300r v Hifiman Sundara (wired via Creative G6) on some games.  While the '3d effect' was convincing on the Pulse, audio wise I found them lacking punch with an incredibly hollow sound which I found disappointing.  In fact, while convenience was high, they would be the last set I'd pick out of the ones listed that I have tried.


----------



## AxelCloris

KamikazeIce said:


> I'm not sure this was the case for what I heard. I'm talking about from one line to the next of the same dialog (where it would not make any sense to re-record most of the lines another day with different equipment. I'm talking about a single voice actor and their lines sounding strange from one to the next, not different characters/voices sounding as if they were recorded with different equipment or times (like Freedom Planet, each voice actor had their own equipment).
> 
> I don't really know how to explain it, but it's something with that game for sure. Better or for worse it helped me fix an issue with my setup so cheers!


Re-records for the same person on different days happen all the time. Heck, I've done audio re-records on some of our Head-Fi TV videos. (And if nobody noticed, then I pulled them off swimmingly ). Say you have talent recording a monologue for one of Bugsnax's quests. They record everything on their docket for that day and then submit it to the assembly team. If someone happens to notice an issue that wasn't caught during the recording - either by the talent themselves or their studio engineer if working in a team - then they'll have to re-record a single or a couple lines later. They won't generally re-record the entire thing, just the section that's bad and mix it in afterwards. The more revealing your headphones are, the more obvious these mis-matches are going to appear when you're gaming.


----------



## fbang

I think we can all agree that the 3d sound is not the same quality across games. For me only Demon Souls sounds really great. I’m basically keeping the G6 in the hope that more gsme take advantage of it else I would have simply kept my old Dolby headphone setup for all games


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> I totally disagree with this. I’m using demon souls and through the g6 the sound has much depth. Did you turn off SBX?


Maybe that’s the problem. Is that the little button on the right?
Also, how do you have the g6 hooked up?


----------



## jessjj

AppleheadMay said:


> Same here, any phones sound underpowered out of the PS5 controller while fine out of the G6.
> I do use an extra portable dac/amp for some phones though.


Maybe I‘ve done something improperly because it’s not what I expected. How do you have the g6 hooked up and configured?


----------



## Petes67bird

jessjj said:


> Maybe I‘ve done something improperly because it’s not what I expected. How do you have the g6 hooked up and configured?


I feel the same way.  The Sennheiser Game One sounded weak/flat powered by the PS5 controller vs my mixamp.  Sound was very poor through the controller.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

SBX shouldn't be set to 0. It should be completely turned off of you're using Tempest audio from the PS5. Assuming 0 still enables some SBX processing to go through.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SBX shouldn't be set to 0. It should be completely turned off of you're using Tempest audio from the PS5. Assuming 0 still enables some SBX processing to go through.


Correct.  On zero it's still doing some Surround shaping.  For any HRTF encoded streaming, SBX should be off.


----------



## jessjj

Chastity said:


> Correct.  On zero it's still doing some Surround shaping.  For any HRTF encoded streaming, SBX should be off.


Just tested again. Turned off SBX by hitting the button on the right side of the g6, and though it might sound better than sbx on it still seems I’m getting more punch, more detail, and fullness from through the controller. Now...it’s not worlds better. I’d never notice if I weren’t a/b testing and trying to focus on tiny details. It also could be because the pc38x is driven fine with the controller and its just giving it a different signature. Could also be my preference, but the things that are better about the controller over the g6 are things that are important. And again the g6 is great on pc, and even great on ps5, but I just find the controller to sound noticeably better for some crazy reason with the pc38x


----------



## lucfer83 (Dec 22, 2020)

Hi All, im new.

For max 100 bucks do you suggest the Pulse 3D or something else?

Use: Gaming PS5 70%, PC 30%


----------



## Petes67bird

Hello everyone, hoping someone can help me.  I recently bought a PS5 and looking for the best setup for me. I tried the Audeze Penrose and the 7p, just did not have the soundstage I am after. I currently use the Sennheiser Game One and the Astro Mixamp Pro the past 6 years or so. For the PS5, I have the USB to the PS5 and the optical running to my Oled 48CX series LG. My budget is around 300-400 for upgrading my headset and sound experience. I do need chat capability and if I could mix voice/game volume that would be great. I also do not want to buy anything that would degrade my HDMI 2.1 experience. I only play Search and Destroy on Call of Duty, I literally play no other games since 2007, just dont have the time. Yes boring to many, but I enjoy it to destress from work. Here are my questions:

1. First, are the Game One's still a very good headphone? Is it worth to upgrade to the PC38x or another headset? I prefer built in mics for usability and ease
2. Being that the Game One is only 50ohms, is the mixamp Pro circa 2013 sufficient or will I have a better experience with a different DAC? What would I gain by switching? Any way to gain Dolby Atmos?
3. Any other recommendations I am not thinking of or ways to improve my setup only for Footsteps and positional accuracy?  These will never be used for anything other than gaming so I do not care about music etc.


----------



## Ted23

jessjj said:


> Just tested again. Turned off SBX by hitting the button on the right side of the g6, and though it might sound better than sbx on it still seems I’m getting more punch, more detail, and fullness from through the controller. Now...it’s not worlds better. I’d never notice if I weren’t a/b testing and trying to focus on tiny details. It also could be because the pc38x is driven fine with the controller and its just giving it a different signature. Could also be my preference, but the things that are better about the controller over the g6 are things that are important. And again the g6 is great on pc, and even great on ps5, but I just find the controller to sound noticeably better for some crazy reason with the pc38x



Just run it in direct mode dude there's no way you won't notice a difference. No lights should be on, on the side of the G6 and turn on tempest in the PS5 settings and calibrate it through that water flowing thing so its right to your ears. I use it with my Elex and its quite a noticeable step up in quality and power from the controller.


----------



## jessjj

Ted23 said:


> Just run it in direct mode dude there's no way you won't notice a difference. No lights should be on, on the side of the G6 and turn on tempest in the PS5 settings and calibrate it through that water flowing thing so its right to your ears. I use it with my Elex and its quite a noticeable step up in quality and power from the controller.


I’m fairly positive I have it set up right. There are 3 lights on the side (sniper mode or something, SBX and something else) and all are off. It’s plugged in via usb to the back of the ps5. So unless there’s something else I have to do to get it in direct mode, I’m just reporting what I’m hearing. I can try to do the water thing again to see if that would change things but it shouldn’t be that drastic of a change.

And again, maybe with the Elex it will be a crazy difference but I’m using the PC38X which are driven very easily.


----------



## bitslacker

Petes67bird said:


> Hello everyone, hoping someone can help me.  I recently bought a PS5 and looking for the best setup for me. I tried the Audeze Penrose and the 7p, just did not have the soundstage I am after. I currently use the Sennheiser Game One and the Astro Mixamp Pro the past 6 years or so. For the PS5, I have the USB to the PS5 and the optical running to my Oled 48CX series LG. My budget is around 300-400 for upgrading my headset and sound experience. I do need chat capability and if I could mix voice/game volume that would be great. I also do not want to buy anything that would degrade my HDMI 2.1 experience. I only play Search and Destroy on Call of Duty, I literally play no other games since 2007, just dont have the time. Yes boring to many, but I enjoy it to destress from work. Here are my questions:
> 
> 1. First, are the Game One's still a very good headphone? Is it worth to upgrade to the PC38x or another headset? I prefer built in mics for usability and ease
> 2. Being that the Game One is only 50ohms, is the mixamp Pro circa 2013 sufficient or will I have a better experience with a different DAC? What would I gain by switching? Any way to gain Dolby Atmos?
> 3. Any other recommendations I am not thinking of or ways to improve my setup only for Footsteps and positional accuracy?  These will never be used for anything other than gaming so I do not care about music etc.


I’ve seen you post in other threads quite a bit and  we all know you hate bass because it detracts from footsteps. Totally get it since you only play S&D. 

Here are my thoughts:

PC37X = Game One

Some say the PC38X is slightly better than the PC37X because it adds a bit more to bass. Since you hate bass then that’s really a con for you.

Anything closed back is going to be a step down for you so Penrose and 7p are definitely out.

Have you tried getting a G6 to see if you like that paired with your Game Ones? It could be better than your mixamp, but it would be personal preference.


----------



## Petes67bird (Dec 22, 2020)

bitslacker said:


> I’ve seen you post in other threads quite a bit and  we all know you hate bass because it detracts from footsteps. Totally get it since you only play S&D.
> 
> Here are my thoughts:
> 
> ...


Would there be a difference with the G6?  Is there still VSS or Dolby Headphone for positioning?  I know the mixamp uses VSS and I have it enabled.  Sorry for all of the questions.  Any better amp then the G6? I just want to buy the right stuff once and be done.


----------



## kadinh

lucfer83 said:


> Hi All, im new.
> 
> For max 100 bucks do you suggest the Pulse 3D or something else?
> 
> Use: Gaming PS5 70%, PC 30%


I would recommend saving a bit more and getting the Sennheiser PC38X. They are monsters for their price. The previous generation (PC37X) are only $30 less ($130 on Amazon), so paying $160 for the 38X is a lot better than a lot of other headphones around that price bracket.


----------



## bitslacker

Petes67bird said:


> Would there be a difference with the G6?  Is there still VSS or Dolby Headphone for positioning?  I know the mixamp uses VSS and I have it enabled.  Sorry for all of the questions.  Any better amp then the G6? I just want to buy the right stuff once and be done.


I think it’s too late to buy once and be done for you!

I’d need someone else to weigh in on subtle differences between Mixamp and G6.


----------



## lucfer83 (Dec 22, 2020)

kadinh said:


> I would recommend saving a bit more and getting the Sennheiser PC38X. They are monsters for their price. The previous generation (PC37X) are only $30 less ($130 on Amazon), so paying $160 for the 38X is a lot better than a lot of other headphones around that price bracket.



PC38X are not avaiable in my country (Italy). I can get "only" the Game One at 160 euros. Are the Game One worth the price? Also, i don't want to buy an external amp/dac. Take this into account please.


----------



## Petes67bird

bitslacker said:


> I think it’s too late to buy once and be done for you!
> 
> I’d need someone else to weigh in on subtle differences between Mixamp and G6.


Hey now lol jk.  I had to dip into the wireless Penrose as they were getting such rave reviews.  I wonder if buying a lower OHM headset such as the PC38x and the New Mixamp would be the best setup....


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Petes67bird said:


> Hey now lol jk.  I had to dip into the wireless Penrose as they were getting such rave reviews.  I wonder if buying a lower OHM headset such as the PC38x and the New Mixamp would be the best setup....



Trouble is with all this audio 'stuff' is that audio is so subjective - sometimes there is no substitute for trying and sending back lol

I have the PC37x and PC38x - personally the PC38x introduce a bit more low end but that might not actually help you and therefore the extra expense is wasted (welcome to buy mine off me to try though lol).

Also, the G6 in my opinion is far better than the latest Mixamp (which has a veil to the sound to my ears). The G6 has adjustable VSS so you can tune it to just as you want (I leave it completely off on PS5 now though) and is just a much more powerful and better sounding solution to my ears.  Then again, you have an older Mixamp and from memory, they sounded a fair bit better back then to me.

The G6 occasionally comes up on the Creative UK store for about £80 or less (B Stock) - which is what I bought - that might be the most cost effective way of testing?


----------



## Petes67bird (Dec 22, 2020)

WhiteHartMart said:


> Trouble is with all this audio 'stuff' is that audio is so subjective - sometimes there is no substitute for trying and sending back lol
> 
> I have the PC37x and PC38x - personally the PC38x introduce a bit more low end but that might not actually help you and therefore the extra expense is wasted (welcome to buy mine off me to try though lol).
> 
> ...


Yes, I specifically found one of the last new in box 2013 Mixamp Pro's in 2017 because they sounded a bit better than the gen 3.  I will just buy the G6 and try it out.  Do you not use the VSS and still get good positional accuracy?


----------



## AudioManNewb

jessjj said:


> I’m fairly positive I have it set up right. There are 3 lights on the side (sniper mode or something, SBX and something else) and all are off. It’s plugged in via usb to the back of the ps5. So unless there’s something else I have to do to get it in direct mode, I’m just reporting what I’m hearing. I can try to do the water thing again to see if that would change things but it shouldn’t be that drastic of a change.
> 
> And again, maybe with the Elex it will be a crazy difference but I’m using the PC38X which are driven very easily.


Have you tried putting it in high gain mode not low gain? It is a button on the side that might be your problem.


----------



## kadinh

lucfer83 said:


> PC38X are not avaiable in my country (Italy). I can get "only" the Game One at 160 euros. Are the Game One worth the price? Also, i don't want to buy an external amp/dac. Take this into account please.


Yes, Game One is the PC37X and are still highly regarded as a great headset.

EDIT: They do not need a DAC or Amp to work well


----------



## mac0172

Petes67bird said:


> Hello everyone, hoping someone can help me.  I recently bought a PS5 and looking for the best setup for me. I tried the Audeze Penrose and the 7p, just did not have the soundstage I am after. I currently use the Sennheiser Game One and the Astro Mixamp Pro the past 6 years or so. For the PS5, I have the USB to the PS5 and the optical running to my Oled 48CX series LG. My budget is around 300-400 for upgrading my headset and sound experience. I do need chat capability and if I could mix voice/game volume that would be great. I also do not want to buy anything that would degrade my HDMI 2.1 experience. I only play Search and Destroy on Call of Duty, I literally play no other games since 2007, just dont have the time. Yes boring to many, but I enjoy it to destress from work. Here are my questions:
> 
> 1. First, are the Game One's still a very good headphone? Is it worth to upgrade to the PC38x or another headset? I prefer built in mics for usability and ease
> 2. Being that the Game One is only 50ohms, is the mixamp Pro circa 2013 sufficient or will I have a better experience with a different DAC? What would I gain by switching? Any way to gain Dolby Atmos?
> 3. Any other recommendations I am not thinking of or ways to improve my setup only for Footsteps and positional accuracy?  These will never be used for anything other than gaming so I do not care about music etc.



Hi, like I said in my earlier reply I have the same combo. I also used to play S&D only since Cod4, have played a bit of search on the latest modern Warfare, bit of black ops but mainly warzone now. In my opinion Every Cod had better sound especially footstepwise than MW and blops. I still have the feeling I hear better than others but it isn't like the older cod's used to be. I wonder if this isn't the same for you and so I wonder if any headset Will satisfy with these games?



lucfer83 said:


> PC38X are not avaiable in my country (Italy). I can get "only" the Game One at 160 euros. Are the Game One worth the price? Also, i don't want to buy an external amp/dac. Take this into account please.



Does this have something to do with italian regulation? 
because they do ship to the Netherlands.
shipping costs are something like 20 euro.


----------



## lucfer83 (Dec 23, 2020)

What I was trying to say is that they are not avaiable on Amazon.it (Italians retailers) for example.
Btw, where do you suggest me to eventually buy? Drop.com or some others?

Thx in advance.

edit: So, i have 3 options:

1) PC38X from drop.com - total 180 euros (product, shipping and taxes)
2) Game One from Amazon in Italy - 160 euros
3) Fidelio X2HR (i will use external mic) - 135 euros

Any suggestion?


----------



## mac0172

mac0172 said:


> Does this have something to do with italian regulation?
> because they do ship to the Netherlands.
> shipping costs are something like 20 euro.


I have the game one.
From what I have Read here and elsewhere the pc38x is really worth the extra euro's over the game one.


----------



## kadinh

lucfer83 said:


> What I was trying to say is that they are not avaiable on Amazon.it (Italians retailers) for example.
> Btw, where do you suggest me to eventually buy? Drop.com or some others?
> 
> Thx in advance.
> ...


PC38X hands down...


----------



## Petes67bird

mac0172 said:


> I have the game one.
> From what I have Read here and elsewhere the pc38x is really worth the extra euro's over the game one.


I have the Game One, and from what I have been reading is that there is not enough difference between the two to warrant the upgrade.  Can you link me some reviews that state its beneficial to upgrade for purely gaming purposes?  Everything I have read is the PC38x is better for movies and music and on par with gaming in FPS.


----------



## lucfer83

They are avaiable on drop.com from 16h Feb. Maybe i will go for Game One.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Petes67bird said:


> I have the Game One, and from what I have been reading is that there is not enough difference between the two to warrant the upgrade.  Can you link me some reviews that state its beneficial to upgrade for purely gaming purposes?  Everything I have read is the PC38x is better for movies and music and on par with gaming in FPS.



Having owned (and still owning) both - imho - if you own the Game One/PC37x, there really isn't enough to warrant the expense of changing.  If you want your first pair of decent gaming headphones, then jump straight in at PC38x


----------



## mac0172

Petes67bird said:


> I have the Game One, and from what I have been reading is that there is not enough difference between the two to warrant the upgrade.  Can you link me some reviews that state its beneficial to upgrade for purely gaming purposes?  Everything I have read is the PC38x is better for movies and music and on par with gaming in FPS.



Check mad lust's review for starters.
Also the lower ohm with the ps5 controller is a stepup.


----------



## lucfer83

And what about the Sennheiser GSP 500 compared to PC38x?


----------



## jessjj

AudioManNewb said:


> Have you tried putting it in high gain mode not low gain? It is a button on the side that might be your problem.


It was in high gain, so i just tried low gain for the first time and I think it sounds better (though certainly much quieter) and closer to being plugged into the controller but still not as good. I tried every combination of settings on the g6 (besides direct mode since it wont turn on) and the controller is still sounding better to me. I’m wondering if it’s the pc38x and maybe another headset would give me different results.

To give real world examples, here are two particular locations that I keep testing. In Demon’s souls in level 2-1 there is a big open cavern with sounds all around you - these little fire creatures making cool noises from all over, people clanging stuff in the mines, people throwing rocks, grunting, dogs running around. All sorts of stuff. The controller beats the g6 in making each of those sounds have a little more pop to them, and they seem to be separated a little better, and a little clearer. So maybe it’s whatever the processing in the controller is doing. Footsteps sound better, weapons sound better. All of it.

In Spider-Man, I’m swinging around the city and the controller gives my web-shoot sound a bit more umph, the cars sound more realistic as I swing around them, the horns sound better, there’s a fullness sound in the air like you would expect to hear in real life, whereas the g6 seems to dampen some of those sharper noises.

Maybe I got a bad g6? Many are saying its night and day that the g6 is better. I’m curious as to what headphones they are driving with it. My experience has not been theirs at all so I’m wondering if I either got a bad g6 or a boss controller


----------



## fbang

jessjj said:


> Maybe that’s the problem. Is that the little button on the right?
> Also, how do you have the g6 hooked up?


 
simply hooked up to the USB on the back of the ps5. And yes there’s a button to turn off SBX on the side


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> simply hooked up to the USB on the back of the ps5. And yes there’s a button to turn off SBX on the side


What headphones/games have you tried? And what is better about the g6 sound?


----------



## Brown Intruder (Dec 24, 2020)

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but has anyone tried the schiit Hel with the xbox series x?

I am currently using an astro mix amp and a set of Audiotechnica ATH ADG 1s and an astro mixamp.

But I am now starting to get the upgrade bug. What I would like are a nice set of open back headphones or headset for around 300is if possible. I can go more. And then either run them with the astro mixamp (mixamp becomes the DAC) and an amp after the mixamp. Or with something like the schiit hel if it works or something else if it is available, works on the series x, and is capable of driving decent headphones.

Also, does anybody know if the sennheiser gsx 1200 pro works with the series X and is it even any good?

Sorry if these questions have been asked a million times, there are too many pages to go through


----------



## Dimitah

Hi there folks, 

I hope this is the right place for my query. If not, please DM me where to post after deleting my comment! I wouldn't mind making a separate post as long as I know where to post.

So not long ago I've upgraded from K712 to Mobius. I wanted to see what's the hype about and also having a proper headset with mic saves me quite some hassle with my stand alone mic. K712 are great, but too big for me head and get too uncomfortable fast.

On point: I am wondering if I can get some tips for optimizing and maximizing the headset's capabilities - particularly in *Warzone*. Whoever else is playing the game knows the audio and steps in it are so broken, it's super confusing what's going sometimes. I am looking for some settings suggestions and would love to hear if you guys have any advises for me! What works for you and helps you hear better?

Right now I am on Midnight mode in Warzone and using the normal 2 channels Audeze HQ mode, Default preset. Tried most of them, but none seem to better reflect steps in-game.


----------



## fbang

jessjj said:


> What headphones/games have you tried? And what is better about the g6 sound?



The headphones are BeyerDynamics DT770 80 Ohms. I find that the sound has more bass and somewhat feels less compressed with the G6. But in the end, I guess it's just about the sound signature. The equalizer on the G6 is flat, but I'm not sure about the controller. Maybe the controller brings out the middles a bit more. I'm not really an audiophile so I'm just theorizing here.


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> The headphones are BeyerDynamics DT770 80 Ohms. I find that the sound has more bass and somewhat feels less compressed with the G6. But in the end, I guess it's just about the sound signature. The equalizer on the G6 is flat, but I'm not sure about the controller. Maybe the controller brings out the middles a bit more. I'm not really an audiophile so I'm just theorizing here.


I appreciate the response and I think you have to be right here. I’m no professional, but I just couldn’t get past the controller sounding better. I’m going to order the Tygr’s and see if there’s a difference. I reaaaally want the 800s but I’m worried the gain for gaming would not be worth the cost increase over the pc38x


----------



## fbang (Dec 25, 2020)

One thing I discovered is that the 3D audio setup makes a lot of difference (at least for me). I was leaving on default, but realized yesterday that for me the best setting is actually "type 1". That's the one that sound the most to my ear level. I tried Morales again and the sound seems much better. Before that, the sound always felt hollow. I wish they had a more thorough calibration system.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I have been doubting about 0 and +1 as well.


----------



## jessjj

fbang said:


> One thing I discovered is that the 3D audio setup makes a lot of difference (at least for me). I was leaving on default, but realized yesterday that for me the best setting is actually "type 1". That's the one that sound the most to my ear level. I tried Morales again and the sound seems much better. Before that, the sound always felt hollow. I wish they had a more thorough calibration system.


I’m not sure I’m fully grasping the water level thing. I’m having a hard time deciphering which one is supposed to sound like it’s ear level. They all sound the same with like an extra layered tone or something. I think default sounds the best so I picked it. But I’m not changing the levels between the g6 and the controller


----------



## fbang

jessjj said:


> I’m not sure I’m fully grasping the water level thing. I’m having a hard time deciphering which one is supposed to sound like it’s ear level. They all sound the same with like an extra layered tone or something. I think default sounds the best so I picked it. But I’m not changing the levels between the g6 and the controller


Changing the level is supposed to make the water sound higher and lower. When I select the type 5 for example it sounds like if it’s running at my chest level. Type 1 is at my ear level.


----------



## lucfer83 (Dec 27, 2020)

Still thinking about the best solution for PS5 gaming. Consider that I already have a pair of Samson SR850.

Which solution did you suggest?

1) Buy a Creative Soundblaster G6 and use it with the Samson or;

2) Buy Sennheiser Game One or Fidelio X2HR and use it with dual sense or;

3) Soundblaster G3 (100 euros less than G6) plus some good 100/120 euros headphones.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Chastity

lucfer83 said:


> Still thinking about the best solution for PS5 gaming. Consider that I already have a pair of Samson SR850.
> 
> Which solution did you suggest?
> 
> ...


Buy a G6 refurb from creative's shop.  Should be about 70-80 Euro.


----------



## stavros.m (Dec 27, 2020)

Hey Everyone i am looking for some new headphones. The wire completely pulled out of my DT 990's. I mostly use them only for gaming and i play mostly fun immersive games for example right now i am playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla, WoW, Sea of Thieves, Minecraft. I also have the new Series X and will be getting a PS5 when i can find it in stock. Though i do mostly game on the PC, but would like something easy to drive for the consoles also.
What would be your recommendation? Drop might not be possible because of the Duties and also ordering straight from Audeze might not be possible because of the Duties.

I was looking at the HD 560S any opinions on them
thanks for all the help


----------



## GMcDougal

Best closed headset around $200? I am currently leaning towards the dt770 80ohm but i want to see what everyone else thinks.

These will be for FPS gaming only and powered by a magni3+.

I currently have dt990s and though they sound great, i want closed for better immersion and to cut out noises from the outside.


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Hey Everyone i am looking for some new headphones. The wire completely pulled out of my DT 990's. I mostly use them only for gaming and i play mostly fun immersive games for example right now i am playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla, WoW, Sea of Thieves, Minecraft. I also have the new Series X and will be getting a PS5 when i can find it in stock. Though i do mostly game on the PC, but would like something easy to drive for the consoles also.
> What would be your recommendation? Drop might not be possible because of the Duties and also ordering straight from Audeze might not be possible because of the Duties.
> 
> I was looking at the HD 560S any opinions on them
> thanks for all the help


You could do a DT-990 removable cable mod, with a little solder work and a 3.5mm stereo port.


----------



## fbang

Chastity said:


> You could do a DT-990 removable cable mod, with a little solder work and a 3.5mm stereo port.



That's what I did on my Beyer Dt770


----------



## ericking (Dec 28, 2020)

What are the best headphones that can be plugged directly into the PS5’s DualSense controller? I don’t really want to worry about using a DAC as I primarily play on my couch and would prefer a simple setup. I’m leaning towards the PC38X at the moment, but should I consider anything else? I mostly play single player games and want to feel immersed in whatever I’m playing, but I’ll occasionally jump into coop with my brother, so having a mic is a nice option.


----------



## lucfer83 (Dec 28, 2020)

After reading several pages i can suggest you PC38X or Audeze Penrose. If im correct Penrose has usb.
Basically:
. For direct dualsense connection PC38X (169$ on drop.com)
. For Wireless USB Penrose ( in my country 300 euros)


----------



## ericking

lucfer83 said:


> After reading several pages i can suggest you PC38X or Audeze Penrose. If im correct Penrose has usb.
> Basically:
> . For direct dualsense connection PC38X (169$ on drop.com)
> . For Wireless USB Penrose ( in my country 300 euros)



Ha, I actually already have the Penrose, but I’ve been having a lot of connection issues with them and that’s why I’m looking into alternatives. I’m considering returning mine and getting the PC38X, instead.


----------



## bitslacker

ericking said:


> Ha, I actually already have the Penrose, but I’ve been having a lot of connection issues with them and that’s why I’m looking into alternatives. I’m considering returning mine and getting the PC38X, instead.


I have the Penrose and the PC38X (using controller). I think they’re both very good. I think you’ll be happy with the PC38X.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Hi - has anyone got a PS5, Creative G6 and Modmic Wireless setup? I'm trying to cut down on cables and use a set of HD660s with my G6. I tried a Samson Go USB Mic on the PS5 but when selecting it the PS5 wants to use it for both input and output and I can't get audio via G6 and voice via Samson Go.  Am concerned the PS5 will have problems diverting the voice to the USB dongle of the Modmic also while keeping audio to the G6?


----------



## fbang

WhiteHartMart said:


> Hi - has anyone got a PS5, Creative G6 and Modmic Wireless setup? I'm trying to cut down on cables and use a set of HD660s with my G6. I tried a Samson Go USB Mic on the PS5 but when selecting it the PS5 wants to use it for both input and output and I can't get audio via G6 and voice via Samson Go.  Am concerned the PS5 will have problems diverting the voice to the USB dongle of the Modmic also while keeping audio to the G6?



So you would have both the Modmic and G6 using two USB ports on the PS5? I assume that in "input" you would have the choice of the Modmic and G6 so you could choose the Modmic as the input and the G6 as the Output.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

fbang said:


> So you would have both the Modmic and G6 using two USB ports on the PS5? I assume that in "input" you would have the choice of the Modmic and G6 so you could choose the Modmic as the input and the G6 as the Output.



Yea. That’s what I’m hoping it’s just when I tried with a Samson USB mic the PS5 insisted on that being used for input and output?

I’ve taken the plunge for the Modmic now in the hope that it was just a quirk with the Samson one and perhaps how it presented itself to the PS5.


----------



## jessjj

Has anyone ever compared the g6 to the hel or the mayflower for gaming? Considering stepping up to see if there is a difference


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Don't expect drastic differences between solid state amps. You probably won't notice anything at all if volume matched correctly.

Get whichever has the better features for you.

The G6 has SBX surround. The others do not. If you don't plan on using SBX, then maybe look at the other two. Also the Hel doesn't work on the ps5, the G6 does. But I much prefer the analog mic gain on the Hel over the digital one of the G6.

I don't know about the Mayflower.


----------



## deadchip12

I wonder if the 560s can be driven well with the soundblasterx g6 plugged into the ps5 via usb. The usb port on the ps5 does not seem to provide much power.

Also, would love a comparison between the 560s and 38x for gaming and movies.


----------



## jessjj

deadchip12 said:


> I wonder if the 560s can be driven well with the soundblasterx g6 plugged into the ps5 via usb. The usb port on the ps5 does not seem to provide much power.
> 
> Also, would love a comparison between the 560s and 38x for gaming and movies.


I haven’t tried the 560’s but love the pc38x, and from what I hear the pc38x seems to be almost the consensus pick for gaming right now. I actually prefer the pc38x straight from the controller on the ps5, it sounds better than using the g6. Not sure what it is but something about the sound is slightly fuller with the controller over the g6. Ymmv, and it will be different if you use harder to drive cans


----------



## Soyun

Hello. I’m giving my first steps in the audiophile world and a friend of mine told me this is the best community about it, so here I am. 
First of all, I’d like to congratulate Mad Lust Envy for this guide, it’s absolutely awesome. I’d also like to mention that I’m fascinated by all the knowledge you guys have. It’s astonishing.
I’ve been reading this thread for several days since I was looking for a dac for my PS5 and I have finally decided to order a Soundblasterx G6 and pair it with my DT770 80ohm. Until now I’ve been using them plugged into the PS5 controller with tempest, but of course the sound is poor. The G6 will arrive next tuesday and I’d like to make sure I have correctly understood how it works:
- G6 connected via USB to the PS5.
- If I’m using Tempest, I must turn off VSS on the G6 (there is a button on the side for this)
- For some games it’s better to turn off Tempest on the PS5 and turn on VSS on the G6 (I will still have surround sound, right?)
- Lo-gain mode on the G6 (how do you switch between lo-gain and hi-gain?)
- Could you please tell me the console audio settings for both modes (tempest on/VSS off; tempest off/VSS on)? I mean the audio settings on the PS5 (output to headphones, audio format...)
- Oh, and I read something about running it in direct mode, in which no lights are on...I didn‘t understand this well.

I know that’s a lot of questions, some of them will surely be clumsy, but as I stated before I’m new in this world and have little idea. I’d be really grateful if you could help me. Thank you so much.


----------



## fbang

Soyun said:


> Hello. I’m giving my first steps in the audiophile world and a friend of mine told me this is the best community about it, so here I am.
> First of all, I’d like to congratulate Mad Lust Envy for this guide, it’s absolutely awesome. I’d also like to mention that I’m fascinated by all the knowledge you guys have. It’s astonishing.
> I’ve been reading this thread for several days since I was looking for a dac for my PS5 and I have finally decided to order a Soundblasterx G6 and pair it with my DT770 80ohm. Until now I’ve been using them plugged into the PS5 controller with tempest, but of course the sound is poor. The G6 will arrive next tuesday and I’d like to make sure I have correctly understood how it works:
> - G6 connected via USB to the PS5.
> ...




Hello,

Based on my own experience with exactly the same setup

1- For tempest, you use the G6 through the PS5's USB, but for the VSS on the G6, you'll need to output optical from the PS5 to the G6.... except there's no optical port on the PS5 anymore. In my case, I use the optical passthrough of the TV. Not sure how you will manage that part.

2- The Lo and Hi gain is a button on the G6. For the Beyers, you can use lo.

3- The three games I ended up using Tempest are Demon Souls, Astro and Spider-Man Morales. So the output is needed to be set to USB G6 and you turn on 3D sound in the PS5 sound setup. Dont forget to adjut the "3D level" (in my case i set it to Level 1 or 2, but this is really personnal). Turn off SBX on the G6.

4- For other games, where you want to use the G6 VSS, setup the PS5 output to HDMI (Tempest is automatically turned off) and turn on the SBX on the G6.

5- To my understandong, Direct Mode doesn't work on the PS5.


----------



## Soyun

fbang said:


> Hello,
> 
> Based on my own experience with exactly the same setup
> 
> ...


Thank you! 
My TV has optical output (it is a C9 OLED) so I think I will be able to sort it out.

Btw, don’t you feel that the clamping force of the 770s is too much? Is there a way to solve this? (changing pads?)


----------



## fbang

Soyun said:


> Thank you!
> My TV has optical output (it is a C9 OLED) so I think I will be able to sort it out.
> 
> Btw, don’t you feel that the clamping force of the 770s is too much? Is there a way to solve this? (changing pads?)


Not at all. They are the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever owned. Maybe with some time the clamping will go away ?
Regarding your tv optical output, on my Sony I need to set the audio output as « audio system » instead of « tv speakers » else the sound will come out in stereo from the optical out. Not sure if you need to do the same thing on your oled.

Your BeyerDynamics are the DT770 Pro right? There’s a DT770M version that is suppose to be a tighter fit or something.


----------



## Soyun

fbang said:


> Not at all. They are the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever owned. Maybe with some time the clamping will go away ?
> Regarding your tv optical output, on my Sony I need to set the audio output as « audio system » instead of « tv speakers » else the sound will come out in stereo from the optical out. Not sure if you need to do the same thing on your oled.
> 
> Your BeyerDynamics are the DT770 Pro right? There’s a DT770M version that is suppose to be a tighter fit or something.


Yes, on my tv I also need to change the audio output settings, I’ve watched a video about it.
And yes, my Beyer are the Pro. I guess I’ll get used to them. Thank you!


----------



## Ted23

fbang said:


> 5- To my understandong, Direct Mode doesn't work on the PS5.



Direct mode does work on the G6 and I only use that with tempest exclusively. None of the lights except for the red volume one should be on when it is active on the G6 with the PS5.


----------



## fbang (Jan 5, 2021)

Ted23 said:


> Direct mode does work on the G6 and I only use that with tempest exclusively. None of the lights except for the red volume one should be on when it is active on the G6 with the PS5.



How do you turn it on? I was under the impression that you needed to hold the Scout button or something and it would flash in direct mode. It works when plugged on my laptop but not on the PS5. What do you mean by the "Red Volume One"? There's no red light on the G6 besides the X logo on top.


----------



## PakoPnF

HI Mad Lust Envy, I've been watching and reading everything on this thread and I need your help.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...12-3-2020-audeze-penrose-review-added.534479/

I currently have an ATH-AD700 with years that I bought based on your review.

I was now thinking about moving, upgrading, but it really has to be worth it.

What I appreciate most is soundstage and those pulled mids. Basically what the ATH-AD700 represents.

I have some models under my eye but I needed your opinion or recommendation in case there are others.

The models are:
AKG K702
AKG K712
AKG Q701
DT770 80 WHO
DT990 250 WHO

I want to spend up to about 300 euros.

Do any of these models feel better than my ATH-AD700? Which? Is there any other that you recommend?

By the way, I also have SPH9500, AKG K550 and HyperX but the ATD-AD700 is absurdly better.

Thank you for your contribution to the gaming world xD

Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

My vote is the K701/K702 if you come from the AD700.


----------



## PurpleAngel

PakoPnF said:


> HI Mad Lust Envy, I've been watching and reading everything on this thread and I need your help.
> I currently have an ATH-AD700 with years that I bought based on your review.
> I was now thinking about moving, upgrading, but it really has to be worth it.
> What I appreciate most is soundstage and those pulled mids. Basically what the ATH-AD700 represents.
> ...


What sound card or motherboard or DAC/amp do you currently plug your headphones into?


----------



## PakoPnF

I will buy the ifi zen dac.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 6, 2021)

That dac/amp doesn't have much power, vastly limiting your choices in Headphones. Fire I've, I certainly wouldn't pair the K702 with it.

Maybe a Sennheiser 560S


----------



## PakoPnF

Lets imagine then that power is not a issue. What would be your opinion. Aren't the AKG K712 better than the K702?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PakoPnF said:


> Lets imagine then that power is not a issue. What would be your opinion. Aren't the AKG K712 better than the K702?


They're different. And fall under preference.


----------



## PakoPnF

Lets just say for immersion. For competitive and so i allready have the ATH-AD700. For games like Assassins Creed, Doom, Wolfstein, etc.


----------



## danterikxx (Jan 7, 2021)

PakoPnF said:


> Lets just say for immersion. For competitive and so i allready have the ATH-AD700. For games like Assassins Creed, Doom, Wolfstein, etc.



i have the K702

great for open world games like Assassin's Creed, RDR, Witcher, etc

haven't heard the K712, but people say it's a bit fuller sounding, with more bass/mid bass

so, i'd go with that for more linear games like Doom and Wolfenstein, Uncharted, etc

depending on where you live, ofc. they're more expensive on US

also: the stock pads on the K702 are crap. had to mod mine to make them comfortable

the K712 have memory foam pads by default. take that into consideration


----------



## Aelemar (Jan 7, 2021)

Thank you very much for the reviews! I'm not usually very active on here, but I have to say that your review on the DT990s were the reason why I purchased them a while back.

I've used Creative products for the longest time, I could even say that except for a brief foray with the Astro A50s, I've exclusively used Creative and their CMSS-3D/SBX for the last few years. Currently, I am using the AE-9 with DT990s (600Ohm) connected to the AE-9s ACM (break out box). While the sound is great, I've been having issues with the AE-9, to the point that I am looking for alternatives.

(Long story short: I had to RMA an AE-9 recently because the XLR port was not working, and the card has this tendency to not turn on sometimes when I turn on my PC. I got a new AE-9, thinking of keeping it for another year of warranty while selling my RMA replacement on eBay, but the new card has the same issue: oftentimes, it does not turn on when I turn on the PC. I'm a systems builder myself, so any and all possible troubleshooting steps have been taken to no avail... it just happens randomly. This has happened across three different motherboards on both cards, so I'm basically tired of dealing with it).

That being said: My main usage case is PC gaming, with music on the side. Virtual surround is a must have, for I do not play games in stereo mode. So... I am considering getting the Audeze Mobius for my PC. Your review seems to really recommend this headset, but I'll ask anyway: compared to SBX, would you say I'd notice much of a difference in VSS? Creative's SBX has a lot of "oomph" when it comes to in-game sounds (explosions/gunfire, for example. I recently tried Dolby/DTS Headphone, Spatial Sound Card, and Boom3D, and the sounds on those felt muted in comparison with SBX. I'm no expert! Just what my ears tell me. The best one of those was Spatial Sound Card, at least to my ears. But still not as punchy as SBX)

Alternatively: I've been considering a DAC/AMP combo for my DT990s, then use Spatial Sound Card (or similar) for surround. The Audeze Mobius, however, seem like they tick all the boxes. An excellent all-in-one solution based on what you wrote here  I should note, that I intend to use them on PS5 whenever I can get my hands on that console. Console gaming is secondary to me, so I do not mind playing only on Stereo on console. PC is the priority.

Edit: What about Penrose + Dolby/Spatial Sound Card? Would that be a viable alternative as well?

What do you think? Thank you!


----------



## PakoPnF

I think i will try the AKG K712, problably the only brand that is less expensive on Europe that on the US.


----------



## AppleheadMay

PakoPnF said:


> I think i will try the AKG K712, problably the only brand that is less expensive on Europe that on the US.



Good phones but like others said, needs a powerful amp, so not the Zen.
Rather look for a Micro iDSD, Micro iCan, Jotunheim, Asgard, Lyr, Magnius ...


----------



## PakoPnF

AppleheadMay said:


> Good phones but like others said, needs a powerful amp, so not the Zen.
> Rather look for a Micro iDSD, Micro iCan, Jotunheim, Asgard, Lyr, Magnius ...


And how about if i stack the Zen Dac with the Zen Can that can run DT880 600ohms at max volume at 75% of there power?


----------



## Playstation

i have been using the X2HR's now. curious about what might be considered an upgrade to these without needing to buy any additional amp/dacs, with a budget (figurately) around $200. what i would want to upgrade would be the sound only, as the comfort is acceptable. what i'm looking for sound-wise would be something with as much bass/sub bass but not more, i am even willing to sacrifice a little thump if necessary. the mids would need to be more forward. the treble, preferably softer, or around the same, but no harsher. 

with all that being said, is my only real option as far as sound and budget, something like the drop 6xx? are there truly no other options? 

thanks


----------



## Mountdragon

Is there anyone who could possibly help me.
I've been using the audeze penrose with my ps5 and been very much enjoying the sound,
I was hoping I could use this with the Panasonic ub820 4k bluray player but unsure of the best way to set this up to get the best sound.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.


----------



## danterikxx

Playstation said:


> i have been using the X2HR's now. curious about what might be considered an upgrade to these without needing to buy any additional amp/dacs, with a budget (figurately) around $200. what i would want to upgrade would be the sound only, as the comfort is acceptable. what i'm looking for sound-wise would be something with as much bass/sub bass but not more, i am even willing to sacrifice a little thump if necessary. the mids would need to be more forward. the treble, preferably softer, or around the same, but no harsher.
> 
> with all that being said, is my only real option as far as sound and budget, something like the drop 6xx? are there truly no other options?
> 
> thanks


560s


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 8, 2021)

560 would have harsher treble, which they don't want.

Considering the X2 is a $250+ headphone to begin with (only being discounted after being around so long), there is a no clear upgrade, IMHO. You'd have to spend at least $400-$500 to move up the ladder.

All you're gonna get at around $200 is things that sound DIFFERENT, not BETTER. Sidegrades, not upgrades.

Maybe look into planar headphones.


----------



## aidylennox

Okay,
I’ve had the G6 about a week now.
I just can’t seem to get on with it.
VSS just sounds too close to my ears and I can’t seem to pinpoint footsteps/boxes/distance of gunfire like I could.
I’ve just reverted back to the mixamp pro 2013.

I don’t want to give up on it so any tips would be great. Do I just need to adjust!?

My reference point is Warzone...

Here’s what I’ve tried so far:

*PS5* 

G6 - USB to back port on PS5 
G6 - optical to Samsung Nu8000 (Sound output - HDMI)

PS5 settings
Input: G6
Output: G6
HDMI Device Type: AV - 7.1ch
Output to Headphones Chat 
Audio Format (priority) Bitstream (Dolby)

*‘Sound Blaster Command*’

SBX Profile

I’ve tried many combinations during a full game:

- Just Surround on @ 100%
- Just Surround @ 67%
- Just Surround @ 20%
- Just Surround @ 0%

- Surround @ 67% / Crystalizer @ 67% / Bass @ 20 % / Smart Vol - Night

Gaming Preset
Call of Duty Series Preset
FPS Preset

_And possibly more but didn’t jot them down._

Equaliser

Have toggled this on/off with all above (prefer on)
Fixed Band EQ

Playback
Headphones: Virtual 7.1 Surround
Direct mode: off
Filters: Fast Roll off - minimum phase
Audio Quality: 32 Bit, 96 kHz

Decoder
Full
_Not sure what this does?_

*Rest of the settings untouched* - _am I missing something?_


----------



## Playstation

different could be considered better depending on the user, imo. so based on what i described, there's nothing without increasing the budget?


----------



## Chastity

aidylennox said:


> Okay,
> I’ve had the G6 about a week now.
> I just can’t seem to get on with it.
> VSS just sounds too close to my ears and I can’t seem to pinpoint footsteps/boxes/distance of gunfire like I could.
> ...


Things to try:

1. Try setting G6 to 5.1 instead of 7.1
2. Try Dolby Digital 5.1 out from console to G6 optical in.


----------



## aidylennox

Chastity said:


> Things to try:
> 
> 1. Try setting G6 to 5.1 instead of 7.1
> 2. Try Dolby Digital 5.1 out from console to G6 optical in.



Absolute legend.
Fixed!


----------



## fbang

aidylennox said:


> Okay,
> I’ve had the G6 about a week now.
> I just can’t seem to get on with it.
> VSS just sounds too close to my ears and I can’t seem to pinpoint footsteps/boxes/distance of gunfire like I could.
> ...



Everything seems ok to me. The only thing I can see is maybe your TV passthrough is not set to output dolby digital and is outputting in stereo? It happened to me once.

Question I've asked before to owners of the G6 and PS5: When using the optical passthrough and the G6 is surround, are you experiencing sound delay? I am and it's driving me insane. Using Tempest with USB has no delay whatsoever, as well as outputting DTS from my PS5 through my Harman Kardon receiver. I think the problem is the PS5's Dolby Digital output. Now, the delay is not THAT high, but just enough to be noticeable.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> 560 would have harsher treble, which they don't want.
> 
> Considering the X2 is a $250+ headphone to begin with (only being discounted after being around so long), there is a no clear upgrade, IMHO. You'd have to spend at least $400-$500 to move up the ladder.
> 
> ...


I can confirm this. After doing a-b comparison between the two of them, the 560s have much better imaging vs the x2hr but lack midbass, so they sound thinner and less exciting. The 560s seem to work really well with surround sound and binaural sources; the soundstage in those cases is actually as large as the x2hr and more defined. Overall, they don't seem like a big upgrade over the x2hr (if only imaging wise, then yes).


----------



## DagsJT

I currently have a pair of Arctis 7X’s which I’m not getting on with too much. I’m finding them a bit too loose around the head for the most part. I also have a pair of WH1000XM4’s that I use for listening to music while I work.

I’m wondering if I can sell both of those and get a set of headphones that I can use plugged into my Dualsense and Series X controllers that will be driven well enough, and what can be used plugged into my iPad Pro 10.5.

My consoles are across the room so I don’t want a DAC, the headphones must be good enough to be driven solely by the controllers but still have good sound. And also driven well by the iPad. I don’t need the portability or noise cancelling of the Sony’s as I don’t travel so it’s all wasted really.

So now I’m after that one pair of headphones that i can use for all situations. Any ideas?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey guys, so I was thinking of doing a live QA playthrough of whatever (maybe Bloodstained) on Twitch or Youtube, so you guys can ask me all that you want. Headphone recommendations, my body dimensions, etc, lol.

But seriously, I may do something like this for Tuesday, maybe afternoon EST.

Tell me who would be interested?

The gates will be thrown wide open.


----------



## fbang

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey guys, so I was thinking of doing a live QA playthrough of whatever (maybe Bloodstained) on Twitch or Youtube, so you guys can ask me all that you want. Headphone recommendations, my body dimensions, etc, lol.
> 
> But seriously, I may do something like this for Tuesday, maybe afternoon EST.
> 
> ...


What is your YouTube channel?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 11, 2021)

fbang said:


> What is your YouTube channel?


Mad Lust Envy, let me find the link.

https://youtube.com/channel/UCv5zwzyOSEBk7m6u5Y6npkw

Www.Twitch.tv/madlustenvy

Lets say... Tuesday 12pm est on one of these. Let me figure out which is best. Probably youtube due to bigger presence there.


----------



## Ted23

DagsJT said:


> I currently have a pair of Arctis 7X’s which I’m not getting on with too much. I’m finding them a bit too loose around the head for the most part. I also have a pair of WH1000XM4’s that I use for listening to music while I work.
> 
> I’m wondering if I can sell both of those and get a set of headphones that I can use plugged into my Dualsense and Series X controllers that will be driven well enough, and what can be used plugged into my iPad Pro 10.5.
> 
> ...



PC38x sound like they'd be right up your ally. As a weird but cheaper solution, which I love, is the kph30i with the grado pads. Both good solutions the mic on the 38x will be better certainly but man do I love the kph30i with the grado pads for $30 I don't think you can beat that value they sound like they should be several hundred at least but look funky certainly.


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, my mixamp just broke, what are the option for having a mix of the PC and PS4? If possible, using optical.

Thanks,


----------



## PurpleAngel

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, my mixamp just broke, what are the option for having a mix of the PC and PS4? If possible, using optical.
> Thanks,


Buy another Mix-amp?
Or buy another Mix-amp and just use it with the PS4 and buy a DAC/amp for the PC.
DAC/amp should offer better audio quality then the Mix-amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 12, 2021)

Are the new Mixamps that good? Or do they still suffer from noise and general uncleanliness in comparison to something like a G6? Nowadays, I don't think I'd choose a Mixamp over the G6, but it HAS been a very long time since I've had a wired Mixamp, and I know they've gone through a few generations since the 2013.

Now that The main consoles have built in VSS, and PC has some truly great software VSS like Redscape Audio (which is my next review, and I recommend), I think I'd be more inclined to get an audiophile dac/amp instead. But then we're limited on what works on consoles through usb so we're still at a loss for choices.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Are the new Mix-amps that good? Or do they still suffer from noise and general uncleanliness in comparison to something like a G6? Nowadays, I don't think I'd choose a Mixamp over the G6, but it HAS been a very long time since I've had a wired Mixamp, and I know they've gone through a few generations since the 2013.
> Now that The main consoles have built in VSS, and PC has some truly great software VSS like Redscape Audio (which is my next review, and I recommend), I think I'd be more inclined to get an audiophile dac/amp instead. But then we're limited on what works on consoles through usb so we're still at a loss for choices.


The Mix-amp was just the first thing the came to mind (they sell used for $50), But the Creative Labs SoundblasterX G6 would offer better audio quality and better headphone amplifier.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 12, 2021)

Don't forget guys, today is my AMA Q&A stream at 12pm est. So in 3 hours. Keep an eye on my youtube channel.

That's where you guys will be able to ask me all the stuff I typical don't answer here. Like WHAT'S YOUR GREATEST BESTEST HEDPFONZ EVR

http://www.youtube.com/c/madlustenvy

It'll be a lets play stream of Bloodstained ROTN as I answer your questions.

If it's a complete fail, well, I tried. Next time I'll try it on Twitch instead.

edit: It was a fail, lol.


----------



## fbang

I have a general question to all members here about sound volume and permanent ear damage. I'm in my late 40s and been using headphones regularily all my life. I'm pretty sure I'm not using them very loud. Still, I do suffer from a slight tinnitus, that is not too annoying but still is making me aware that I should lower my headphone volume. Now my question: I often hear complain that their headphone are not loud enough, for example BeyerDynamics 80ohms plugged in the PS5. For me putting them at the highest level through the controller sounds ear damaging. So I was wondering how loud are you putting them? I know that it's not really quantifiable, but I've heard that you shouldnt go above the sound of a blender (85dB) .... which frankly is pretty hard to judge comparing a blender to gunfire in Battlefield 5. 

I guess I should buy a DB measuring tool or something.

Thoughts?


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Now that The main consoles have built in VSS, and PC has some truly great software VSS like Redscape Audio (which is my next review, and I recommend), I think I'd be more inclined to get an audiophile dac/amp instead.


My g6 has occasional pop/crackle issue with Creative driver so I want to use Microsoft driver instead. But with Microsoft driver I lose the 7.1 functionality. Other than that, the g6 is a great dac/amp so I 'd like to keep it instead of buying another audiophile one. I'm looking at other VSS alternatives. Will you do a comparison between SBX, Redscape and Waves NX? I tried Waves NX in the past and the soundstage was really wide but I felt there was too much echo, and it was only 5.1 channel? I listened to the demo on Redscape website just now and it sounded pretty good, but the $40 price tag is quite high for a software like this.


----------



## fbang

deadchip12 said:


> My g6 has occasional pop/crackle issue with Creative driver so I want to use Microsoft driver instead. But with Microsoft driver I lose the 7.1 functionality. Other than that, the g6 is a great dac/amp so I 'd like to keep it instead of buying another audiophile one. I'm looking at other VSS alternatives. Will you do a comparison between SBX, Redscape and Waves NX? I tried Waves NX in the past and the soundstage was really wide but I felt there was too much echo, and it was only 5.1 channel? I listened to the demo on Redscape website just now and it sounded pretty good, but the $40 price tag is quite high for a software like this.



My G6 also pops and crackle with the PS5 when using VSS.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To the few people that showed up for the stream, thanks guys. Was a fail but I'm glad I did it. Next time I'll try on Twitch.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> To the few people that showed up for the stream, thanks guys. Was a fail but I'm glad I did it. Next time I'll try on Twitch.


sorry i missed  it, i was just about to ask. yeah twitch should be better, imo



Mad Lust Envy said:


> 560 would have harsher treble, which they don't want.
> 
> Considering the X2 is a $250+ headphone to begin with (only being discounted after being around so long), there is a no clear upgrade, IMHO. You'd have to spend at least $400-$500 to move up the ladder.
> 
> ...



different is fine, and thank you for clarifying. 

I am not even sure, as far as sound signature goes, where the X2HR's excel. Bass?

so a planar? again. now that we now that it isn't necessarily an upgrade, but a different sound signature. what might you recommend, given i do not look to buy a stronger amp/dac, and my budget. closed/open backs, either way is fine. 

just a reminder about what sound i am looking for when comparing them to the X2HR's. at least as much, more is fine too, but i am willing to sacrifice a little bass for more pronounced mids. mids, maybe not hd598 mids, as imo, i believe you lose too much bass. treble, softer darker. 

it's too bad i'm not going for the 6xx's, huh? that would require a stronger dac/amp. sigh

mostly fun gaming, with a little competitive here and there.

also. i was looking at possibly just getting something like a 9 band analog equalizer. playing around with a free eq'ing software, i learning that it doesn't take much to ruin the sound. so now i am reluctant to buy an equalizer. i know that when done correctly, an equalizer can be our friend. the other thing is how exactly i would have to connect it. some only have output. would i need any other hardware to make it work with my own hardware, kind of scenarios sigh


----------



## UrsusMajor

fbang said:


> I have a general question to all members here about sound volume and permanent ear damage. I'm in my late 40s and been using headphones regularily all my life. I'm pretty sure I'm not using them very loud. Still, I do suffer from a slight tinnitus, that is not too annoying but still is making me aware that I should lower my headphone volume. Now my question: I often hear complain that their headphone are not loud enough, for example BeyerDynamics 80ohms plugged in the PS5. For me putting them at the highest level through the controller sounds ear damaging. So I was wondering how loud are you putting them? I know that it's not really quantifiable, but I've heard that you shouldnt go above the sound of a blender (85dB) .... which frankly is pretty hard to judge comparing a blender to gunfire in Battlefield 5.
> 
> I guess I should buy a DB measuring tool or something.
> 
> Thoughts?


There's no real way for you to accurately measure the SPL of your headphones unless you have ~£15k to spare for the relevant equipment from B&K. Unfortunately sound meters are inaccurate for measuring sounds emitted from headphones due to the nature of how they're placed on the head forming a seal and emit sound directly at the ears.

What you could try, iirc iphones are able to give you an indication of your listening volume in db. Though you'll likely be restricted to the air pods or the apple beats, but you could use them and try to achieve a volume that sounds comparatively as loud as you would normally game at, at least that way you would have a vague idea of listening levels.

And I also am of the mind that people in the hifi community listen at staggeringly high levels. All too often I see things online about headphones I own - for example that they need external amplification to get to an appropriate listening volume, which is complete nonsense as I can get them to painful listening levels without.

You're generally not supposed to listen to 85db for more than 8 hours a day. And iirc every 3db above that cuts the safe listening time by half


----------



## fbang (Jan 12, 2021)

UrsusMajor said:


> There's no real way for you to accurately measure the SPL of your headphones unless you have ~£15k to spare for the relevant equipment from B&K. Unfortunately sound meters are inaccurate for measuring sounds emitted from headphones due to the nature of how they're placed on the head forming a seal and emit sound directly at the ears.
> 
> What you could try, iirc iphones are able to give you an indication of your listening volume in db. Though you'll likely be restricted to the air pods or the apple beats, but you could use them and try to achieve a volume that sounds comparatively as loud as you would normally game at, at least that way you would have a vague idea of listening levels.
> 
> ...


Thanks I’m gonna check that IPhone suggestion. I did ordered a little sound meter just to at least get a sense of what 85db represents in the real world.

Edit: for what it’s worth, I plugged the stock iPhone EarPods and turned on that health’s hearing app, put on the theme from Spider-Man Morales at a relatively uncomfortable high level and it reached about 86dB. I’ll never listen at that level.


----------



## dToke

Hi guys, 

1st time poster and a complete audio novice so please bear with me. I'm patiently awaiting my Pc38x delivery which I plan to use on PS5 to play FPS like Cold war etc..

I'm looking at buying a G6 to pair with them and I'm after some advice

Firstly, I will be powering it via USB and then plugging my pc38x straight in as I do not have the option for optical because my monitor has no such connection to pass through, does this mean that I have to disable the 5.1/7.1 surround sound on the G6 and solely use tempest and just have  the G6 in direct mode? If so, will the only benefit be volume? 

Also I find the whole settings side of the G6 slightly daunting, do you have any tips for how to set it up to optimise audio for FPS games? Would you just select the FPS preset and play in direct mode?

Any feedback and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## RopeSwing

Hello guys.

I have a Mixamp Pro TR (2019), which is better, K712 or DT990?

Can Mixamp Pro TR (2019) can drive the DT990?

I want something that is sturdy and can be worn for a long time.

sorry my english is not good.
but im japanese.
arigato.


----------



## fbang

dToke said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> 1st time poster and a complete audio novice so please bear with me. I'm patiently awaiting my Pc38x delivery which I plan to use on PS5 to play FPS like Cold war etc..
> 
> ...



(Note that I'm not an expert as I have the G6 only since december. Other members, please correct me if you disagree.)

1) If you use only USB you will indeed not be able to use the G6 VSS and be stuck with tempest, which I find is good with some games (Demon Souls, Morales, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cyberpunk, Ghost of Tsushima) but bad with others (Cold War, Battlefield serie).
2) Even if you disable the surround, you can still benefit from other SBX feature from the G6 like the equalizer, bass boost, etc. I use it to slightly alter the sound signature of my BeyerDynamic and reduces some of the trebble.
3) About the selection of settings in the G6, it's really just a preference matter as far as I'm concerned. Just pick the setting you think sounds the best and makes some adjustments (firstly turning off the Dolby Surround!)

Regarding Tempest (which is the only reason I own a G6), I think it sounds incredible with Demon Souls, but every other game sound as good or better with my old setup ("Dolby Headphone" through optical passthrough with a Harman Kardon receiver). I'm kinda debating if I'm keeping the G6 or not because it's a bit overkill for only one game.

I'm keeping it mostly because I feel confident that it will get better overtime. I want to see more first party studio games before my final judgement.


----------



## PurpleAngel

RopeSwing said:


> Hello guys.
> I have a Mix-amp Pro TR (2019), which is better, K712 or DT990?
> Can Mix-amp Pro TR (2019) can drive the DT990?
> I want something that is sturdy and can be worn for a long time. sorry my english is not good. but I'm Japanese. arigato.


I own the K7XX and DT990, I have not used them in years.
I would suggest the Soundmagic HP200, they are like an improved DT990.
The HP200 may not as be sturdy as the K712/DT990, the HP200 stock ear pads may wear out faster, but you can always get nice leather or sheep skin ear pads, for the HP200.
The cable feels cheap, but it functions just fine.


----------



## hawkjacq

Good Day... Even though I have been reading this Forum for months, I have just signed in and this is my first post. I have a doubt that maybe one of you can answer. I have both PS5 and XBOX X Series. Having a Receiver with a 7.1.4 speaker placement (using earc from an OLED C9 LG so as to use 2.1 HDMI in both consoles), and living alone, I dont use Headphones a lot, only for online games and during some nights. With the XBX Series I have an Astro A50 last Gen, which I was using with my old Xbox One X. But for the PS5 I have my old Sony PS Platinum Headset which was used in my PS4 Pro.

I want to buy a new Headset for my PS5 keeping the Astro A50 for the XBOX X Series. I have read the Review of Audeze Penrose and I am interested in buying one of them. I also read that Penrose X also work with PS5 and due to the fact I have both Consoles, it seems a logical move to buy this version. But here are my firsts doubts:

1.- As I understand Penrose X works with PS5 but Penrose "Blue" doesnt work with XBOX X Series.
2.- I know no one has a "crystal ball" but if I buy Penrose X, maybe someday a new Firmware will prevent to continue using it with a PS5?

To make a decision the questions above are very important to me due to the following reason: here in my Country Chile, there is stock of Penrose "Blue", but not of Penrose X. So, I can buy right away the PS5 version. Penrose X can be purchased from Audeze Website. Prices are very similar (around US400), but buying the version sold in my Country gives local warranty (Chilean Customer Warranty protected by inside laws) that I will not have with the interantional purchase of Penrose X.

Please can you give me advice to decide what to do: 1.- Buy Penrose Blue here in Chile or Buy Penrose X from Audeze?

Thanks for your time and you really do a fantastic work in this Forum...


----------



## Ted23

hawkjacq said:


> Good Day... Even though I have been reading this Forum for months, I have just signed in and this is my first post. I have a doubt that maybe one of you can answer. I have both PS5 and XBOX X Series. Having a Receiver with a 7.1.4 speaker placement (using earc from an OLED C9 LG so as to use 2.1 HDMI in both consoles), and living alone, I dont use Headphones a lot, only for online games and during some nights. With the XBX Series I have an Astro A50 last Gen, which I was using with my old Xbox One X. But for the PS5 I have my old Sony PS Platinum Headset which was used in my PS4 Pro.
> 
> I want to buy a new Headset for my PS5 keeping the Astro A50 for the XBOX X Series. I have read the Review of Audeze Penrose and I am interested in buying one of them. I also read that Penrose X also work with PS5 and due to the fact I have both Consoles, it seems a logical move to buy this version. But here are my firsts doubts:
> 
> ...



If you want it for the playstation mainly and want to be sure it will always work for it buy the blue. Warranty is a big deal too I think too many things stack for you and buying the blue makes sense. If you were in the US it would be easier to sell it if later on the xbox one didnt work for playstation but you already have xbox headphones so I'd not gamble if I was you and just buy the blue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 13, 2021)

Yeah I'd say just get the Blue Penrose. I doubt anything will happen with the X sypporting ps5, but you already have an A50 for the X, so focus on the PS5 support first.

It's also annoying having to move the usb stick between systems for the Penrose.

Hey guys, so I was thinking, in order for me to grow... what do you guys think of me making at the very least, a go pro style impression review of the things I write reviews for?

I NEED to have a Youtube video presence. I KNOW others like Zeos do that style of review, but I wanna do them in my own way, not be as ranty. I love his reviews, of course, but I wanna do reviews my way, just in a similar camera point of view.

It would be easier for me, because:

1. I don't know how to edit.

2. I'm really good at talking to myself n when it comes to headphone impressions, so much it scares me. I say so much that I leave out of reviews.

3. I'm very self conscious and camera shy, so a go pro view would particularly suit me well.

What do you guys think? I'd be more inclined to make videos of I could do them this way.

I would structure them kinda like my written reviews, like in sections, talking about build first, comfort next, sound, etc.

Your thoughts?

I'm just scared people think I'm just copying, but I've wanted to do that since before I even knew of Zeos. I have been doing this a decade, you know.

Not like I could do a review every day like him. I like to take at the very least a week, optimally two weeks to listen to gear before I review. To let my opinions settle and get a good grip on the product.

I'll be looking to purchase a new desk, a camera and headmount, and lighting.


----------



## hawkjacq

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey guys, so I was thinking, in order for me to grow... what do you guys think of me making at the very least, a go pro style impression review of the things I write reviews for?
> 
> I NEED to have a Youtube video presence. I KNOW others like Zeos do that style of review, but I wanna do them in my own way, not be as ranty. I love his reviews, of course, but I wanna do reviews my way, just in a similar camera point of view.
> 
> ...



My humble opinion... That is really a way to grow, and surely an audiovisual point of view is what present days seems to demand. But you said you wanted a Go Pro Style due to the fact that you are shy. Well, even without video, can you be able to produce a good review talking about your voice?  I mean, one thing is being shy in front of cameras, but another one is being able to mantain a fluid and clear voice in front of one. Obviously nothing can be said without trying... But dont forget that this Forum, as it is, shows plenty of knowledge and seriousnes not because of the way it is presented, but more important, for the people who make the posts.

By the way, thanks both Ted23 and Mad Lust Envy for your advice about Penrose Bue or X. You are right...I will go for the Blue. I always later can buy the X version, selling the A50, but even that, the Astro is also a good Headset.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 14, 2021)

I'm thinking back. If I had a video up when I had the Penrose first (Audeze told me I was literally the first guy outside of the company with the Penrose), who knows how many thousands of views I would've had online.

That's something missed just because I didn't make a video. Actually upsetting. World's first. 🤦

I was also the first guy with a PC38X review. 😭


----------



## hawkjacq

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm thinking back. If I had a video up when I had the Penrose first (Audeze told me I was literally the first guy outside of the company with the Penrose), who knows how many thousands of views I would've had online.
> 
> That's something missed just because I didn't make a video. Actually upsetting. World's first. 🤦
> 
> I was also the first guy with a PC38X review. 😭


You have a point there... If your "image" is a "trusted" one so as to be the first one, then the new step you propose maybe necessary...Perhaps, that way, you will have more products at hand, because more potential buyers will ventually see you.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 14, 2021)

I have an AMAZING idea for my first video back. It's a rant and an idea that I think you guys will follow and support if you know me well enough. Now I'm excited to try.


----------



## fbang

Well since the PS5 Dolby Digital through my TV is producing an insane delay, I've decided to order a HDMI Optical extractor to bypass the TV just to see if it solves the issue.

Anybody else here are experience delays when outputting Dolby Digital with their Playstation while using passthrough? Strange thing is that I have no delay with my blu-ray player going through the TV into my receiver.


----------



## duranxv

Question for the fellow gamers here:

I'm looking to upgrade from my SoundBlaster G6 to either an X7 or the new AE-9 internal card.  Has anyone here used either the X7 or AE-9 and how was it?

One of the reasons for the upgrade is so I can swap out OPamps - I use Fostex TH900's, so they'd likely benefit from a higher end model than the G6 at this point


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Question for the fellow gamers here:
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade from my SoundBlaster G6 to either an X7 or the new AE-9 internal card.  Has anyone here used either the X7 or AE-9 and how was it?
> 
> One of the reasons for the upgrade is so I can swap out OPamps - I use Fostex TH900's, so they'd likely benefit from a higher end model than the G6 at this point


Or you can use your G6 as your virtualizer, and move onto real audio gear.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Or you can use your G6 as your virtualizer, and move onto real audio gear.



Any suggestions?


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah I'd say just get the Blue Penrose. I doubt anything will happen with the X sypporting ps5, but you already have an A50 for the X, so focus on the PS5 support first.
> 
> It's also annoying having to move the usb stick between systems for the Penrose.
> 
> ...


In order to do the long form unedited video like Zeos and be successful, you'll need to be able to hold attention like he does. He has a great voice, engaging delivery, and speaks in a way that excites you. You can't fake that if that's not who you are - authenticity is almost a requirement to be successful. Can you hold attention without edits for a long period of time? It's not easy. You can give it a shot, check your stats how long you keep people and if the long form isn't working out then you can learn how to do basic editing which won't take too long to learn. Ask the question - what can I do differently or better than the people at the top? What is the unique thing that will make people need to watch me? Using social media effectively will also help you grow faster, especially TikTok right now


----------



## Zachik

jessjj said:


> Can you hold attention without edits for a long period of time?


*Personally*, I think 10-15 minute videos will be better than Zeos' 40+ minute videos!


----------



## ronfifer

Is the review for Redscape Audio out?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 15, 2021)

Oh the video I'm thinking of making isn't a review. More a short spoof and rant about Koss, lol.


My next review is certainly Redscape Audio and its headtracking however. As of right now, that's gonna be a standard written impression/review.

And I'm not trying to do a Zeos type of review. It would still be structured similar to my written reviews, but more casual speech. And certainly not 30 minutes. More to the point, which is why I believe people like my reviews to begin with.

The only thing that would be similar is the POV. If I have to make jump cuts/simple edits, they'll be there.

At the very least, my readers here would have something to watch if they wanna hear and see my opinions. I'm certainly not aiming to be anything like those other guys. For one, I can't make reviews every day/other day like that can. It's not possible for me.

Also if I REALLY wanna be technical, I had a POV video about a headphone about half a year before Zeos made his very first video. 

My Skullcandy Plyr video was May 2013. 

If I wanna be even more technical, I started this guide on Avsforum, I believe in late 2010, before I lost my account info and had to make a second version there, lol. This is technically version 3 of my guide.


----------



## fbang

Zachik said:


> *Personally*, I think 10-15 minute videos will be better than Zeos' 40+ minute videos!



I agree.


----------



## Ted23

duranxv said:


> Any suggestions?



I think he's saying use it as a DAC and pair it with an atom or a stronger amp for your headphones. A question for you I have is do you get enough power from the G6? Have you compared it with a stronger amp to see what it would sound like?


----------



## duranxv (Jan 15, 2021)

Ted23 said:


> I think he's saying use it as a DAC and pair it with an atom or a stronger amp for your headphones. A question for you I have is do you get enough power from the G6? Have you compared it with a stronger amp to see what it would sound like?






The G6 is able to power some pretty demanding headphones actually.   The TH900 is a very easy headphone to drive - I've never had problems using it with the G6. I don't even need to put it on the high gain setting to drive them properly.  Hell, I literally can use the headphones with a regular Sony MP3 player, lol (not ideal, but very doable)

Also from what I see, the X7 and AE-9 can drive up to 600 ohm HP's.  I think the G6 can do up to 300 if I'm not mistaken


----------



## DSebastiao

PurpleAngel said:


> Buy another Mix-amp?
> Or buy another Mix-amp and just use it with the PS4 and buy a DAC/amp for the PC.
> DAC/amp should offer better audio quality then the Mix-amp.



Or the newer mixamps capable of mixing the audio?

I wanted to do a DAC/Amp setup for the pc, but how would i mix the audio then?

Also, is the G6 capable of doing that mix?


----------



## PurpleAngel

duranxv said:


> Question for the fellow gamers here:
> I'm looking to upgrade from my SoundBlaster G6 to either an X7 or the new AE-9 internal card.  Has anyone here used either the X7 or AE-9 and how was it?
> One of the reasons for the upgrade is so I can swap out OPamps - I use Fostex TH900's, so they'd likely benefit from a higher end model than the G6 at this point


Unless you have unpowered speakers you need to drive, can't see replacing the G6 with the X7.
Can't see the X7, driving the 25-Ohm Fostex TH900 headphones, better then the G6.


----------



## duranxv

PurpleAngel said:


> Unless you have unpowered speakers you need to drive, can't see replacing the G6 with the X7.
> Can't see the X7, driving the 25-Ohm Fostex TH900 headphones, better then the G6.



Well it's not so much the amp than the DAC/DSP components.  Plus on the X7 you can swap OP-Amps for a little more customization vs. the G6.  I heard (not sure how true it is) that the X7 and AE-9's seem to do a better job with surround sound virtualization than the G6.  One of the common complaints on the G6 is that rear channels sometimes bleed into the sides a bit, so sometimes it gets difficult to tell if something is to the side of you or behind you. I can attest to that from personal experience.


----------



## PurpleAngel

DSebastiao said:


> Or the newer mixamps capable of mixing the audio?
> 
> I wanted to do a DAC/Amp setup for the pc, but how would i mix the audio then?
> 
> Also, is the G6 capable of doing that mix?


Questions over my head.


----------



## PurpleAngel (Jan 16, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Well it's not so much the amp than the DAC/DSP components.  Plus on the X7 you can swap OP-Amps for a little more customization vs. the G6.  I heard (not sure how true it is) that the X7 and AE-9's seem to do a better job with surround sound virtualization than the G6.  One of the common complaints on the G6 is that rear channels sometimes bleed into the sides a bit, so sometimes it gets difficult to tell if something is to the side of you or behind you. I can attest to that from personal experience.


I would assume the G6 and X7 use about the same software for surround sound processing.
If I was Creative Labs, I would design the software to run off the main CPU as much as possible, lighten the workload for the audio DSP.
If your into swaping op-amps, better to just get an external DAC/amp, have the G6 send the processed headphone surround sound, out it's optical port, to the DAC/amp.
Post your bleeding issue on Forums where they have a lot of support for Creative Labs stuff, see if they have any ideas on the problem.


----------



## Zaphyre

DSebastiao said:


> Or the newer mixamps capable of mixing the audio?
> 
> I wanted to do a DAC/Amp setup for the pc, but how would i mix the audio then?
> 
> Also, is the G6 capable of doing that mix?


You can use the G6 to mix PC and console audio into one output if that's what you're asking, yeah. That's what I partially use it for(that and getting virtual surround from consoles). I have optical out from my TV going into the optical in on the G6, my G6 plugged into my PC via USB, and then I have optical out on the G6 connected to my DAC/AMP. It's useful for when I'm playing consoles but I'm using discord on my PC or something for voice chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 16, 2021)

I'm gonna be upgrading to a Modius/Jotunheim 2 within a month or so. I plan on giving one of you guys the Modi 3/Magni 3. All you gotta do is pay shipping.

$200 worth of gear for the price of shipping. Because why not? The only thing you'll have to supply yourself is a micro usb and rca cable, as I'm fresh out of spares and need the ones I have. I'll have to and see. I may have some. 

I'll let you all know when I'm ready to do so. Preferably someone who doesn't have gear yet.


----------



## GMcDougal

I am looking forward to your comparison of the new audio gear vs the old.


----------



## Ted23

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm gonna be upgrading to a Modius/Jotunheim 2 within a month or so. I plan on giving one of you guys the Modi 3/Magni 3. All you gotta do is pay shipping.
> 
> $200 worth of gear for the price of shipping. Because why not? The only thing you'll have to supply yourself is a micro usb and rca cable, as I'm fresh out of spares and need the ones I have. I'll have to and see. I may have some.
> 
> I'll let you all know when I'm ready to do so. Preferably someone who doesn't have gear yet.



Out of curiosity do you prefer the Schiit stuff over say something like Topping?


----------



## stavros.m

Hey @Mad Lust Envy just curious would you be reviewing the Redscape with the head tracker or just the software? What headphones are you currently using out of curiosity.

Also if anyone could recommend me some headphones for fun immersive non competitive gaming that would be awesome I am having bad luck since my dt 990’s died, I ordered the 560s but they came defective with intermittent audio on the left side and no audio on the right. I sent them back and right now cannot get another pair for a while so looking for something else so any recommendations would be appreciated.


----------



## AppleheadMay

stavros.m said:


> Hey @Mad Lust Envy just curious would you be reviewing the Redscape with the head tracker or just the software? What headphones are you currently using out of curiosity.
> 
> Also if anyone could recommend me some headphones for fun immersive non competitive gaming that would be awesome I am having bad luck since my dt 990’s died, I ordered the 560s but they came defective with intermittent audio on the left side and no audio on the right. I sent them back and right now cannot get another pair for a while so looking for something else so any recommendations would be appreciated.



For me fun and immersive for gaming has become synonym with planar.
Why don’t you look at some of the Audeze offerings?
I have the Penrose and LCD-GX myself now, used to have an LCD-XC.
LCD-1 might also be a good choice at a lower price-point than the GX and without the wireless of the Penrose.


----------



## stavros.m (Jan 16, 2021)

AppleheadMay said:


> For me fun and immersive for gaming has become synonym with planar.
> Why don’t you look at some of the Audeze offerings?
> I have the Penrose and LCD-GX myself now, used to have an LCD-XC.
> LCD-1 might also be a good choice at a lower price-point than the GX and without the wireless of the Penrose.


Hey thank you I was looking at the lcd-1 and the mobius any opinions on either since they are roughly both 500$ cdn. I was also looking at the hifiman sundara if you have an opinion on them also

thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 16, 2021)

I'm reviewing both the headtracking and software for Redscape. I've been using the headtracking with the 6XX, and the software with the 6XX, LCD-1, Penrose, PortaPro (with KSC75 clips).

I wouldn't say LCD-1 is as fun or immersive as the Penrose. The LCD-1 is super tonally accurate and flat. It's more for reference and people wanting an uncolored sound.

The Penrose is a little more vibrant and energetic, and if you're ok with wireless, is excellent.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm reviewing both the headtracking and software for Redscape. I've been using the headtracking with the 6XX, and the software with the 6XX, LCD-1, Penrose, PortaPro (with KSC75 clips).
> 
> I wouldn't say LCD-1 is as fun or immersive as the Penrose. The LCD-1 is super tonally accurate and flat. It's more for reference and people wanting an uncolored sound.
> 
> The Penrose is a little more vibrant and energetic, and if you're ok with wireless, is excellent.


Thank you very much for the reply. The Redscape looks very cool cannot wait for you review.
Since the penrose is back ordered would you have any other recommendation or is it really worth waiting for them.

thanks again


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Any suggestions?


I started with a G6, then added an Asgard 3 amp.  Later added a SMSL M300 MKII DAC + FX Audio Tube-01 tube preamp.  So now my G6 is relegated to providing 7.1 Virtual HRTF for gaming (if the game doesn't support Atmos or DTS:X)  The G6 supports an HRTF mix over Line-out or SPDIF-Out over toslink, which you use the toslink to your dedicated DAC.

I thought the G6 was a decent DAC, until I compared it to the AK4497 solution of the M300 MKII.  



duranxv said:


> The G6 is able to power some pretty demanding headphones actually.   The TH900 is a very easy headphone to drive - I've never had problems using it with the G6. I don't even need to put it on the high gain setting to drive them properly.  Hell, I literally can use the headphones with a regular Sony MP3 player, lol (not ideal, but very doable)
> 
> Also from what I see, the X7 and AE-9 can drive up to 600 ohm HP's.  I think the G6 can do up to 300 if I'm not mistaken


The G6 is capable of 86mW @ 300 ohm, the AE-9 about 115mW @ 300 ohm.  In comparison, the Asgard 3 can output 600mW@300ohm.  So no, the G6 is a little anemic for higher impedance headphones.


----------



## jessjj

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh the video I'm thinking of making isn't a review. More a short spoof and rant about Koss, lol.
> 
> 
> My next review is certainly Redscape Audio and its headtracking however. As of right now, that's gonna be a standard written impression/review.
> ...


I certainly think you can have an audience! You’ve helped me and countless others here and you have great knowledge of the subject matter. You have more beef in your gaming analysis, something popular but underrepresented. Your experience is gold, not many people are on your level


----------



## Ted23

Chastity said:


> I thought the G6 was a decent DAC, until I compared it to the AK4497 solution of the M300 MKII.



I mean it measured really well at ASR. I think its very competent especially for gaming where you don't see the best quality recordings or audio engineering (although I do think that's slowly improving).


----------



## duranxv

Ted23 said:


> I mean it measured really well at ASR. I think its very competent especially for gaming where you don't see the best quality recordings or audio engineering (although I do think that's slowly improving).



I'm getting the AE-9 shipped along with Sparkos Op-Amps so I'll give my impressions of the overall sound vs the G6 for gaming when I've had a chance to test it out!


----------



## Chastity

Ted23 said:


> I mean it measured really well at ASR. I think its very competent especially for gaming where you don't see the best quality recordings or audio engineering (although I do think that's slowly improving).


It may measure well, but I found that with my high-impedance headphones (DT-1990 / HD580) the output suffered some bass roll-off, and was grainy sounding. (Evin when Line-Out is sent to an external amp.)  The M300 MKII also tested very well on ASR (go go SINAD 119), but in direct comparison, the M300 wins by a considerable, and easily noticeable margin.


----------



## Paysen

Because of your guide I bought the K712 Pro like 4 or 5 years ago. Best headphones I've ever had. 

The left side seems to be a bit quieter after these years. I play mostly competitive games and the only thing I dislike is the headphone jack - the mini xlr is not great for a boom mic. With an adapter it is way too far below to be comfortable imo. 

I even thought about getting a headset, but they mostly look cheap. Would've bought the ADG1X as that looks quite good, but that is not available anymore...


----------



## Nosound4me

Just returned the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless  because I was not happy with the sound quality for that price range and purchased the x2hr  on sale for $116. Honestly, I could not pin point location while playing a FPS shooter with the x2hr .  In regards to competitive  play, what is my best option? It seems my budget is around 350. Pin pointing locations(competitive play) is important to me, I believe the AKG K 701 and a paired g6 or  Fiio E10k is my best options? Also considering the AKG Pro Audio K612 PRO and the K702.If I missed any equally solid options please advise.Thank you!

*ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plu Mobo


----------



## Paysen

I have the K712 Pro with Objective 2  AMP and it is such a nice combo. The K701/2 might be even better just for gaming, haven't tried that yet. But the K712 seems more versatile to me.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm gonna be upgrading to a Modius/Jotunheim 2 within a month or so. I plan on giving one of you guys the Modi 3/Magni 3. All you gotta do is pay shipping.
> 
> $200 worth of gear for the price of shipping. Because why not? The only thing you'll have to supply yourself is a micro usb and rca cable, as I'm fresh out of spares and need the ones I have. I'll have to and see. I may have some.
> 
> I'll let you all know when I'm ready to do so. Preferably someone who doesn't have gear yet.



I use the X2HR and a Fx Audio dac. So i do have a little gear. However, if i had your modi/magni, i could go ahead and buy the 6xx's. put me on the list, please.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 19, 2021)

@Playstation

I can't have you with such an entry level. They're yours. Shoot me a pm with your details. Remember, you gotta pay shipping.

Not sure how soon I can ship as Schiit hasn't sent my stuff out just yet. It'll def be very soon.


As far as topic related, I'm starting my Redscape written review today. Just need to figure out where to begin, lol.



Nosound4me said:


> Just returned the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless  because I was not happy with the sound quality for that price range and purchased the x2hr  on sale for $116. Honestly, I could not pin point location while playing a FPS shooter with the x2hr .  In regards to competitive  play, what is my best option? It seems my budget is around 350. Pin pointing locations(competitive play) is important to me, I believe the AKG K 701 and a paired g6 or  Fiio E10k is my best options? Also considering the AKG Pro Audio K612 PRO and the K702.If I missed any equally solid options please advise.Thank you!
> 
> *ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plu Mobo


Do you use virtual surround? Pinpointing people is not going to be easy with any headphone unless you have a means to have sound directionality. Basic stereo can't do that. Virtual surround will turn any basic headphone into much more capable at being able to tell which direction things are coming from.


----------



## fbang

Is there a way with the G6 to set the default volume on the PS5? It always starts way too low.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Nosound4me said:


> Just returned the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless  because I was not happy with the sound quality for that price range and purchased the x2hr  on sale for $116. Honestly, I could not pin point location while playing a FPS shooter with the x2hr .  In regards to competitive  play, what is my best option? It seems my budget is around 350. Pin pointing locations(competitive play) is important to me, I believe the AKG K 701 and a paired g6 or  Fiio E10k is my best options? Also considering the AKG Pro Audio K612 PRO and the K702.If I missed any equally solid options please advise.Thank you!
> *ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plu Mobo


Have you tried both Realtek and DTS Custom for processing headphone surround sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 20, 2021)

fbang said:


> Is there a way with the G6 to set the default volume on the PS5? It always starts way too low.


If you're talking about total output, it's because the ps5 doesn't apply much voltage. If you mean the G6 CAN go high but always starts low, I think it's because the PS5 disconnects all usb devices upon turning off momentarily, IIRC, so it defaults back to a safe volume level.

Just a guess.


----------



## fbang (Jan 20, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're talking about total output, it's because the ps5 doesn't apply much voltage. If you mean the G6 CAN her kid but always starts low, I think it's because the PS5 disconnects all usb devices upon turning off momentarily, IIRC, so it defaults back to a safe volume level.
> 
> Just a guess.



The output is fine. I'm just annoyed that whenever I start the PS5 the sound is too low. Since there's no volume indicator, I'm always having a hard time raising the volume to what I'm used to. Always playing with the volume because what I think was the right volume ends up blasting my ears depending on the situation.  Minor complaint. I'll get used to it.


----------



## AppleheadMay

fbang said:


> The output is fine. I'm just annoyed that whenever I start the PS5 the sound is too low. Since there's no volume indicator, I'm always having a hard time raising the volume to what I'm used to. Always playing with the volume because what I think was the right volume ends up blasting my ears depending on the situation.  Minor complaint. I'll get used to it.



What happens if you set energy saving to always provide power to the usb ports?


----------



## fbang

AppleheadMay said:


> What happens if you set energy saving to always provide power to the usb ports?



same issue. Anyway I can’t do this because since I’m using the Astro hdmi optical extractor, if it’s powered on I cannot use the optical pass through of my tv for my 4K player on the other hdmi output. No idea why but I think it’s ARC related.


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm gonna be upgrading to a Modius/Jotunheim 2 within a month or so. I plan on giving one of you guys the Modi 3/Magni 3. All you gotta do is pay shipping.
> 
> $200 worth of gear for the price of shipping. Because why not? The only thing you'll have to supply yourself is a micro usb and rca cable, as I'm fresh out of spares and need the ones I have. I'll have to and see. I may have some.
> 
> I'll let you all know when I'm ready to do so. Preferably someone who doesn't have gear yet.



I'm interested in your thoughts on what is the top experience now for the gamer of open world games? I think I recall you lavishing compliments on CMSS in the early days and I too felt the same way, probably still do and have a modded Tit HD in the box of spares. Is there any chance you could give a roughly overarching comment on the state of play as of 2021?

I'm using an Burson modded AE-9 and a pair of HD660S's as my daily gaming driver and really don't know where to go from here if anywhere.

Your comments in amongst the HUGE morass atm would be kindly appreciated, if you have time.

Regards
Motorwayne


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 20, 2021)

motorwayne said:


> I'm interested in your thoughts on what is the top experience now for the gamer of open world games? I think I recall you lavishing compliments on CMSS in the early days and I too felt the same way, probably still do and have a modded Tit HD in the box of spares. Is there any chance you could give a roughly overarching comment on the state of play as of 2021?
> 
> I'm using an Burson modded AE-9 and a pair of HD660S's as my daily gaming driver and really don't know where to go from here if anywhere.
> 
> ...


I definitely didn't talk about CMSS. That's one of the few I didn't really get a chance to test out.

This is a good question. I literally (as in minutes ago) was writing in my Redscape review about the virtual surround dsps to compare it with. I think if I had to say which are my absolute faves:

Sennheiser GSX at 1 + on the GSX1000,
Creative SXFI (I'll need more testing outside of the Air headset I tested it with)
Dolby Headphone 2, an oldie but still one of the very best to me at surround discernability
Beyerdynamic Headzone's dsp is up there as well but it's been so long and I'd need to retry to be sure.

Creative SBX is probably the least offensive and most useful in terms of surround to reverb ratio. Usually be the one I recommend most.

These above all require external devices.

As far as software based ones, Redscape is my favorite. Mainly because it has room size adjustment, has the best size to reverb ratio, and is usable even at the lowest settings. I say more in the review, which I'm still writing. I think I am able to record gameplay with Redscape on, so I wanna get that into the review so you guys can hear it yourselves.

I think if I can get the Waves NX guys to add a room ambience slider, it'll be a much tougher decision between Redscape and Waves in terms of software only solutions.


https://www.redscapeaudio.com/

^for those interested in Redscape. I highly recommend it, even at $40. The only surround DSP you'd need on PC.


----------



## stavros.m

Are the HE4xx worth it still over the he5xx? Do they sound very different if so would one be better suited for single player games

thanks


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 21, 2021)

Nosound4me said:


> Just returned the SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless  because I was not happy with the sound quality for that price range and purchased the x2hr  on sale for $116. Honestly, I could not pin point location while playing a FPS shooter with the x2hr .  In regards to competitive  play, what is my best option? It seems my budget is around 350. Pin pointing locations(competitive play) is important to me, I believe the AKG K 701 and a paired g6 or  Fiio E10k is my best options? Also considering the AKG Pro Audio K612 PRO and the K702.If I missed any equally solid options please advise.Thank you!
> 
> *ASUS AM4 TUF Gaming X570-Plu Mobo



From what I own, here is how I rank them for competitive FPS, and they are within your budget:

*1. Monolith 570:* My favorite competitive FPS gaming headphone. Perfect details, excellent imaging for directional cues, and very good soundsatge. Does not sound too thin or low on bass like other open head HPs. It feels more vibrant and alive. I hear the birds and insects in Solomon's Island map in Battlefield 5. Needs an amp.

*2. K702:* My first purchase. My competitive gaming performance improved greatly after putting these on. Great imaging and soundstage. However, the bass sounds way too thin, metallic, in a way that throws out immersion. Also, sounds a bit skewed to right and left, with a blind spot in the front center, meaning the soundstage is more like a horizontal oval rather than a circle. Needs an amp.

*3. AD900x:* Very good soundstage and imaging, BUT the sound is noisy, grainy, meaning the air has noise to it even if there is nothing happening. Also, when the scene becomes packed with action, it does not do a good job separating all the sounds but throws them at you all together in a inelegant manner. Does not need amping.

*4.HE4XX:* Good soundstage but not as big as the first three. Good enough imaging. Excellent on details, i heard the whizz of the spinning ww1 grenade as it flies in the air for the 1st time using this headphone. A bit thin sounding as well, bass is not full and meaty at all which is fine for competitive gaming. It needs major Amping otherwise it will just sound trash. I rarely use those in gaming.

In windows settings, you must enable dolby atmos for headphones or windows sonic to get surround sound experience with directional audio in the game.
In game settings, select Surround sound in audio settings, and speakers or headphones under devices.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> ^for those interested in Redscape. I highly recommend it, even at $40. The only surround DSP you'd need on PC.



Thank you very much for mentioning this because it seems they added the $40 software-only option recently. I checked the website one week ago and the only purchase option was $140 with head-tracker. I would appreciate to mention in your review if the headtracker makes much of a difference in terms of positional accuracy in FPS gaming? Thanks.



stavros.m said:


> Are the HE4xx worth it still over the he5xx? Do they sound very different if so would one be better suited for single player games
> 
> thanks



Absolutely do not recommend HE4XX for single player games, you will find much better in terms of immersion and full meaty bass at that price range. See my post above. HE4XX might be a good option for competitive gaming when on sale. And for electronic music.


----------



## Paysen (Jan 21, 2021)

As I was looking for an alternative for my K712 Pro I ordered the Audio Technica ATH-ADG1X. The ADG1 seems to be an AD700(x) with a mic attached. But we will probably never know. Decided to give it a try. And while the K712 is one of the comfiest and best sounding (competitive gaming) headphone, I was tired of my clip on mics and the boom mic attachment falling off.

I haven't really tried it as I have to work from home atm, but listening to some music it seems like the mid tones are more emphasized compared to the K712 Pro. Might be good for hearing steps, we will see later.
But what on earth is this 3d wing headband? It looks so filigree and fragile 





While it is not uncomfortable, the earpads are a step down from those (gel?) earpads from the K712 Pro.
The pads on the Audio Technica feel "empty", don't know how to describe it in a better way. But still, not uncomfortable, the feel is just better on the K712 or K702 etc.

Will share a few more impressions when I tested the gaming capabilities 

Edit: Swapped out the earpads for the k712 ones and damn, such a big difference. Highs and mids are much more balanced, bass gets a bit too heavy though. Can be filtered out probably. Would buy the AKG k712 earpads, but they are 50€...EACH! 100€ for the earpads, while the whole headphone here is 200€. Might have to search for some alternative earpads.


----------



## stavros.m

ronfifer said:


> From what I own, here is how I rank them for competitive FPS, and they are within your budget:
> 
> *1. Monolith 570:* My favorite competitive FPS gaming headphone. Perfect details, excellent imaging for directional cues, and very good soundsatge. Does not sound too thin or low on bass like other open head HPs. It feels more vibrant and alive. I hear the birds and insects in Solomon's Island map in Battlefield 5. Needs an amp.
> 
> ...




thanks you for the reply back would you have any experience with HIFIMAN HE400i 2020 for single player games or something not recommended


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> In windows settings, you must enable dolby atmos for headphones or windows sonic to get surround sound experience with directional audio in the game.
> In game settings, select Surround sound in audio settings, and speakers or headphones under devices.


Just wanted to add to this.  You can use the Windows Sonic plug-ins IF the game supports Windows Sonics, or you can force multi-channel output in game menu.  The Windows Sonics options are Windows Sonic (free), Dolby Access, or DTS:X.  If a game supports an encoded output, then you can use Dolby or DTS:X to decode it.  For example, Diablo 3 supports Dolby ProLogic output.  The Dolby Access plug-in will decode this stream into a HRTF 2.0 feed.

Apps like Redscape or Waves NX use a virtual sound device to allow the configuration of 7.1 / 5.1 in Windows, so the game can config accordingly, much the same way SBX works but without the hardware requirement.  (Unless you use SB MB3 software)

@Mad Lust Envy I have a decent collection of DVD-A discs that I've ripped to my PC in 24/96 5.1 FLACs, and I usually use SBX with about 11% Surround for my listening. (When I was using the G6 as amp, I don't use this anymore since toslink is hard limited to 48K)  I need to figure out an alternative at some point.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As far as software based ones, Redscape is my favorite. Mainly because it has room size adjustment, has the best size to reverb ratio, and is usable even at the lowest settings. I say more in the review, which I'm still writing. I think I am able to record gameplay with Redscape on, so I wanna get that into the review so you guys can hear it yourselves.
> 
> I think if I can get the Waves NX guys to add a room ambience slider, it'll be a much tougher decision between Redscape and Waves in terms of software only solutions.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this, didn't know about Redscape yet. Anyone try it with their headtracker? Is it worth it the extra cost?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Rhadamanthys said:


> Thanks for this, didn't know about Redscape yet. Anyone try it with their headtracker? Is it worth it the extra cost?



Me neither, I was waiting for MLE's review.
I am more interested in how it performs without headtracker however.


----------



## Gun21 (Jan 21, 2021)

AppleheadMay said:


> Me neither, I was waiting for MLE's review.
> I am more interested in how it performs without headtracker however.


Me too. With the headtracker however, it's expensive, way too expensive. I know you're paying for the software development and not the hardware (like TrackIR), but at least they could've made it a wireless solution. On a sidenote, I've just upgraded to the Tobii 5 Eyetracker, and man it's good. Combine that with wireless Redscape audio tracking and that would be impressive.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Gun21 said:


> Me too. With the headtracker however, it's expensive, way too expensive. I know you're paying for the software development and not the hardware (like TrackIR), but at least they could've made it a wireless solution. On a sidenote, I've just upgraded to the Tobii 5 Eyetracker, and man it's good. Combine that with wireless Redscape audio tracking and that would be impressive.



You're right, wireless would be sweet. I can image them doing this at a later stage.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 21, 2021)

There's a demo page on Redscape that let's you listen to some 7.1 and stereo sources.  It can offer up an idea of what a software only solution works.

EDIT:  Decided to do my own comparisons with the following:

SBX (G6)
Dolby Access (Dolby Atmos for Headphones)
DTS Headphones:X
Waves NX
Nahimic via Asus Sonic Studio III

one of my initial tests was to see what kind of formats are supported.  G6 via toslink out is capped to 48KHz, as is Dolby Access and DTS:X (Windows Sonics).  Waves NX is not, and was happily playing 192KHz sampled music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 21, 2021)

When you consider how expensive things like the Mobius (which can only be used standalone), the Beyerdynamic Headzone, and Smyth Realizer are, Redscape with headtracker at $140 for use with any headphone is a bargain. Granted, if you don't care about headtracking, you can just get the software.

As for how effective headtracking is for gaming, well it's the same thing I said with the Mobius, it isn't. Your spatial awareness in games is relative to your character's point of view. Headtracking is YOUR point of view relative to the virtual speakers around you. It adds an extra dimension in immersion, and really brings home that virtual surround is emulating a room with speakers around you.

But for gaming alone, no, it's not necessary.

You point your head away from the screen, the sound will then come from behind you, etc.

Since you're pretty much always going to be looking at the screen dead on when playing games, headtracking becomes somewhat superficial.

Headtracking makes more sense outside of gaming, when you might be listening to music, or a TV show, or things when you may not always have your faace pointed at the screen.

Your subtle head movements do get compensated by the headtracking, but we've become too used to just associating positional audio cues to your on screen character rather than your own head movement.

But again, without headtracking, virtual surround is restricted in that the virtual speakers never move from their default position. In real life, in your own home theater setup, speakers cues will change as you move your head about. Headtracking brings this even closer to emulating real life setups. So it IS a net benefit. Just not one for gaming merely due to the focus on screen view is what our brains are focused on.

I thought about how headtracking could benefit VR gaming, but then I realized that too bases sound relative to screen pov. and the VR screen is always in front of your eyes.

I'll say this in the review as well:

Virtual surround in general is showcased at its best with gaming.

Virtual surround with headtracking is even better than just virtual surround for every other purpose outside of gaming.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy
That's indeed why HT doesn't interest me much.
Seems you are reviewing it with and without the HT, looking forward to it!



Gun21 said:


> Me too. With the headtracker however, it's expensive, way too expensive. I know you're paying for the software development and not the hardware (like TrackIR), but at least they could've made it a wireless solution. On a sidenote, I've just upgraded to the Tobii 5 Eyetracker, and man it's good. Combine that with wireless Redscape audio tracking and that would be impressive.


Can you tell a little more about that Tobi?
I'm particularly interested in how it's installed and how it would work in racing games. Doe you need a virtual-multi-monitor setup or anything else complicated to look out of your sidewindow? Seems a bit like VR but on 1 screen to me.


----------



## Chastity

@Mad Lust Envy I noticed there's a THX Spatial Audio app too.  $20 to activate, I downloaded the demo (15 days) from Razer.  I don't know if you tried it.  One nice feature is the ability to adjust the spatial positions of the surround points.  I used it to make rear sounds sound more from the rear.  You can also adjust dB strength per channel.

https://www.razer.com/p/RZ11-13000-0001


----------



## UrsusMajor

fbang said:


> Is there a way with the G6 to set the default volume on the PS5? It always starts way too low.


Interestingly, I have the opposite problem with the SXFI amp on PS5: it's far too loud by default. And any adjustments are reverted back to default when booting up the PS5


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I noticed there's a THX Spatial Audio app too.  $20 to activate, I downloaded the demo (15 days) from Razer.  I don't know if you tried it.  One nice feature is the ability to adjust the spatial positions of the surround points.  I used it to make rear sounds sound more from the rear.  You can also adjust dB strength per channel.
> 
> https://www.razer.com/p/RZ11-13000-0001


I am looking forward to your comparison!  
My interest is for watching movies (Netflix / Hulu / Amazon Video) with headphones on my Win 10 laptop. Not for games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2021)

Chastity said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I noticed there's a THX Spatial Audio app too.  $20 to activate, I downloaded the demo (15 days) from Razer.  I don't know if you tried it.  One nice feature is the ability to adjust the spatial positions of the surround points.  I used it to make rear sounds sound more from the rear.  You can also adjust dB strength per channel.
> 
> https://www.razer.com/p/RZ11-13000-0001


I'll have to look into it. I was NOT impressed with Razer surround, so I wonder how different THX SA is. I'm wondering if it's like their old THX Tru Studio used by Creative before SBX, which is pretty good, but SBX is a step above. THX TS had a problem with sounds only really being in general far corners and center. Everything in between was pushed heavily to the sides. So a cue at 1 o'clock sounded like 3 o'clock.


As for Redscape, just remember these are more overview and impressions, so don't expect a lengthy review in the vein of my headphone reviews. It'll be more like my Schiit dac/amp reviews. Describing the headtracking unit, and the software and my impressions on them. My impressions aren't super in depth since there's not much to say other than yeah IT WORKS. I mean not that short, but you get the drift. I have a lot more to retry with when it comes to headphones.

What I AM trying to do is set up a video where I talk over the gameplay to showcase how the virtual surround effect is when off, on, maxed, and where I like it. Like a companion video.


----------



## Gun21

AppleheadMay said:


> Can you tell a little more about that Tobi?
> I'm particularly interested in how it's installed and how it would work in racing games. Doe you need a virtual-multi-monitor setup or anything else complicated to look out of your sidewindow? Seems a bit like VR but on 1 screen to me.


Multi monitor, no, because of the multiple bezels. Maybe they can get around it in the future as the company is always updating the software. My 21:9 3440x1440 monitor is at the usable max, and all you need to look side to side is move your head (it tracks both your eyes and your head btw). It's good for 'sit down games' but takes a lot of getting used to in FPS.

I stumbled across the HyperX Cloud Orbit gaming headset earlier: Audeze™ planar magnetic drivers, Waves Nx® fully immersive 3D audio + Waves Nx® head tracking technology2. Looks interesting.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2021)

Gun21 said:


> Multi monitor, no, because of the multiple bezels. Maybe they can get around it in the future as the company is always updating the software. My 21:9 3440x1440 monitor is at the usable max, and all you need to look side to side is move your head (it tracks both your eyes and your head btw). It's good for 'sit down games' but takes a lot of getting used to in FPS.
> 
> I stumbled across the HyperX Cloud Orbit gaming headset earlier: Audeze™ planar magnetic drivers, Waves Nx® fully immersive 3D audio + Waves Nx® head tracking technology2. Looks interesting.


It's the same as the Audeze Mobius without bluetooth functionality. The S has headtracking, the regular one does not.

If at a steep discount next to the Mobius, def worth getting if you want an all in one unit that doesn't need a dac or amp.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Gun21 said:


> Multi monitor, no, because of the multiple bezels. Maybe they can get around it in the future as the company is always updating the software. My 21:9 3440x1440 monitor is at the usable max, and all you need to look side to side is move your head (it tracks both your eyes and your head btw). It's good for 'sit down games' but takes a lot of getting used to in FPS.
> 
> I stumbled across the HyperX Cloud Orbit gaming headset earlier: Audeze™ planar magnetic drivers, Waves Nx® fully immersive 3D audio + Waves Nx® head tracking technology2. Looks interesting.



I didn't mean with a multi-monitor setup, meant it gave a virtual-multi-monitor effect using one monitor, e.g. you can look out of the side window of a car.
But it seems not to be a good idea for a large nonitor, I have a 48" 16:9 4k.


----------



## fbang

Anybody here tried the "Maiden" Resident Evil Village demo on the PS5? It uses the 3D Audio pretty well. I like the VSS from my G6 a bit more, but for people without  external option it's great.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 22, 2021)

Zachik said:


> I am looking forward to your comparison!
> My interest is for watching movies (Netflix / Hulu / Amazon Video) with headphones on my Win 10 laptop. Not for games.


For movie watching, I use Dolby Access primarily, since the streaming services tend to use Dolby Digital encoding.  Just set it to Movie mode.  For scene rips, they can be Dolby or DTS encoded, so I have both decoder options for Windows 10.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> For movie watching, I use Dolby Access primarily, since the streaming services tend to use Dolby Digital encoding.  Just set it to Movie mode.  For scene rips, they can be Dolby or DTS encoded, so I have both decoder options for Windows 10.



I agree. I've used Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS:X and SBX. For movies, Dolby is good.

For music and gaming, I actually do like SBX.

In terms of quality of the surround sound - I found SBX to be the best in terms of quality and accuracy.


----------



## ronfifer

Is there a software-only version for SBX that i can try on my PC for gaming? I don't want to buy additional hardware.


----------



## RugbyPlayer

Theres so much info in this thread its hard to keep up! can anyone give me a summary of what i need to do to get the mobius working correctly with the PS5 with Virtual Surround?


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> In terms of quality of the surround sound - I found SBX to be the best in terms of quality and accuracy.


After doing all my comparisons so far, I've found SBX to be somewhat flawed, in that it's too left/right for the front channels and the rear channels aren't quite as obvious.



ronfifer said:


> Is there a software-only version for SBX that i can try on my PC for gaming? I don't want to buy additional hardware.


Yes, Creative sells the SB MB3 software package for $30.  It's the suite laptop owners usually get, if they get the Creative solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2021)

RugbyPlayer said:


> Theres so much info in this thread its hard to keep up! can anyone give me a summary of what i need to do to get the mobius working correctly with the PS5 with Virtual Surround?


You can't use Mobius headtracking with the ps5. At least I mean, DON'T use it, since the Mobius can only pull 2 channel source from the ps5.

Leave Mobius in stereo, no 3d audio from the Mobius itself. Only turn on 3D audio from the Sony ps5.

If you turn on 3D audio or headtracking from the Mobius, you'll just be mixing 2 channel front virtual front speakers. If you try and turn both that and Sony's 3D audio, well that'll be an outright mess.


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> For movie watching, I use Dolby Access primarily, since the streaming services tend to use Dolby Digital encoding. Just set it to Movie mode.





duranxv said:


> I agree. I've used Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS:X and SBX. For movies, Dolby is good.


This one?  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
If so, Microsoft app store states: "Download Dolby Access to start your free trial of Dolby Atmos for Headphones or set up a Dolby Atmos device."... What is the price after the free trial ends??


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> After doing all my comparisons so far, I've found SBX to be somewhat flawed, in that it's too left/right for the front channels and the rear channels aren't quite as obvious.
> 
> 
> Yes, Creative sells the SB MB3 software package for $30.  It's the suite laptop owners usually get, if they get the Creative solution.



Which surround are you using for gaming other than SBX? I think you mentioned THX Spatial Audio?


----------



## Chastity (Jan 22, 2021)

Zachik said:


> This one?  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/dolby-access/9n0866fs04w8?activetab=pivot:overviewtab
> If so, Microsoft app store states: "Download Dolby Access to start your free trial of Dolby Atmos for Headphones or set up a Dolby Atmos device."... What is the price after the free trial ends??


$14.99, sometimes it's on sale for $10.99.



duranxv said:


> Which surround are you using for gaming other than SBX? I think you mentioned THX Spatial Audio?


I have quite a few options to play with:  SBX (G6), Nahimic, Waves NX, Dolby Access, and DTS:X.

If the game supports encoded output, then I will use the matching decoder plug-in.  For example, Diablo 3 supports Dolby ProLogic, so I would use Dolby Access.  (Dolby Atmos For Headphones) The decoder supports all of their earlier encoder options, like Dolby Digital / ProLogic. Another example would be Shadow of the Tomb Raider, which supports Dolby Atmos output.

For games that do not, they usually rely on Windows Audio settings.  Using the Windows Sonics plug-ins would allow for the game to output 7.1 channels.  Waves NX, SBX, and the THX Spatial app do the same.  So far, I like Waves NX for gaming, tho I don't like it for 5.1 music playback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2021)

I personally don't recommend Dolby Atmos on PC. Both Waves NX and Redscape are much better. Redscape even let's you know if what you're playing has multiple channels, whereaa Dolby truncates everything to 2 channel for the processing without you knowing if it was a 5/7 channel source.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I personally don't recommend Dolby Atmos on PC. Both Waves NX and Redscape are much better. Redscape even let's you know if what you're playing has multiple channels, whereaa Dolby truncates everything to 2 channel for the processing without you knowing if it was a 5/7 channel source.


I have multichannel working in games with Dolby Atmos For Headphones.  You can even do the 7.1 speaker test and hear the HRTF placement.  Which mode do you use when testing in the Dolby Access settings?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 22, 2021)

I know 7.1 works, I'm saying there's no way to tell from a visual indicator. So if a source is 2 channel or 7.1, you wouldn't know. Only by testing, and outside of games other media rarely utilizes surround all too well. Even movies.


Redscape literally shows you what channel is in use with db meters.

For Dolby I use a custom preset. Dolby Atmos lacks any room size adjustment, as does Waves. But Dolby seems to be limited to a very small room size, which imho is weak sauce.

Both are very limited, though Waves has 3 vastly different room sizes in their 3 presets, and Redscape has a room size knob and 3 presets making it the best for me.

If anything Dolby one the weakest of all the techs on PC. I think I'd take old Dolby Headphone Room 1 over pc Atmos.


I don't bring up DTS or Sonic, because I think neither come remotely close to the others.


----------



## Zachik

@Mad Lust Envy - so what's YOUR recommendation for movie watching?  Redscape?
Do you find it better (for movie watching) than Dolby Atmos and Waves NX?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2021)

For my money, I like Redscape the best in terms of software. In terms of hardware, more options like GSX, SBX, DH, SXFI, etc. I'd use any of those.

I mean just wait for the review, though Redscape is the simple answer.


----------



## deadchip12

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I personally don't recommend Dolby Atmos on PC. Both Waves NX and Redscape are much better. Redscape even let's you know if what you're playing has multiple channels, whereaa Dolby truncates everything to 2 channel for the processing without you knowing if it was a 5/7 channel source.


For games that support true Dolby Atmos, Dolby Atmos for Headphone should be used for the best surround effect (height channel). For movies, it's a shame there's no media player on pc that can decode Dolby Atmos to use with Dolby Atmos for Headphone. Dolby should release their own media player software (they already kinda had that inside Dolby Access app).


----------



## ronfifer

I appreciate quick advice to help me make a decision regarding VSS software.

- Wave NX license is on special discount this weekend, from $109 down to $30.
- I already own Dolby Atmos for Headphones license and Windows Sonic.
- I exclusively use VSS to play competitively in FPS games like BF5.

Shall I go ahead and purchase Wave NX? Would it be an upgrade in terms of accuracy, depth, and positioning, over Dolby Atmos for Headphones? Or shall I wait for the Redscape Audio review by Mad Lust Envy as it might be superior to Wave NX?


----------



## duranxv

ronfifer said:


> I appreciate quick advice to help me make a decision regarding VSS software.
> 
> - Wave NX license is on special discount this weekend, from $109 down to $30.
> - I already own Dolby Atmos for Headphones license and Windows Sonic.
> ...



Wow, $109 for a surround sound software? For that amount of money, the damn thing better make me forget I'm in the real world, lol. I wonder how it is for gaming vs SBX?


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 23, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Wow, $109 for a surround sound software? For that amount of money, the damn thing better make me forget I'm in the real world, lol. I wonder how it is for gaming vs SBX?



I was mistaken. A plugin v12, probably used for content creation and mixing, is discounted from $109 to $30. The VSS for headphones software alone is only $10. Their website is not straightforward.


----------



## PS5head

I was wondering if anyone could help me out with a comparison on wireless headphones for the ps5? Personally, I’ve been using a G6 with my HD6XX and it’s the best setup I’ve ever had! I went with a headset I could use for music and gaming and due to this awesome forum, I couldn’t be happier.
However, I have a few friends that want a wireless solution, so I thought I would ask....they are looking at either Arctis 7 or 9x? Astro a50, or the penrose?

If anyone could offer a bit of a comparison, or reasons for/against any of those any help would be greatly appreciated! Or an argument for going wired! They both sit at a desk

Separate question, I am currently listening to music with a jds labs atom powering the HD6XX, but with no dac. I basically have cd quality music going from the lightning port of an iPad to the atom (until I can upgrade the source as well).  Would there be a big difference if I added a dac, or would it be difficult to tell any difference? I have a pretty good ear, been playing violin since I was 4 and listen to a lot of classical as well as singer/songwriter stuff like Nathaniel Rateliff.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Chastity

PS5head said:


> Separate question, I am currently listening to music with a jds labs atom powering the HD6XX, but with no dac. I basically have cd quality music going from the lightning port of an iPad to the atom (until I can upgrade the source as well). Would there be a big difference if I added a dac, or would it be difficult to tell any difference? I have a pretty good ear, been playing violin since I was 4 and listen to a lot of classical as well as singer/songwriter stuff like Nathaniel Rateliff.


I don't know offhand what DAC is in your iPad (or if you are using a USB-C DAC dongle), but the G6 has a CM43131 which is commonly used in Apple hardware, and I found it to be ok, but grainy sounding when compared to other DACs.  The Modius is a tricked out AK4493 DAC with no settings options.  ($199)  The SMSL M300 MKII is a AK4497 DAC with all the Filter options available.  ($239)  If you want more budget friendly, JDS Labs also has an Atom DAC for that amp.


----------



## deadchip12

So...is there a way to use the hd800s with the ps5?


----------



## Lay.

deadchip12 said:


> So...is there a way to use the hd800s with the ps5?



This is how I use them.
PS5 -> USB -> G6 -> optical -> AMP/DAC -> HD800S


----------



## deadchip12

Lay. said:


> This is how I use them.
> PS5 -> USB -> G6 -> optical -> AMP/DAC -> HD800S


Hơw's the gaming experience with the 800s? This is a pretty heavy investment for me and I'm worried the headphones may not provide enough bass slam and excitement in immersive singleplayer games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2021)

I'd probably look at something else for immersion and bass. Maybe an Arya if you're in the HD800S price range. Or a TH900 MK. 2?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Indeed, the HD800S with it's huge soundstage is very nice with games but buying it primarily for that purpose is a bit of a waste.
I am also more a fan of immersive audio for games than positional accuracy but we like a bit soundstage as well.
One of the best headphones I have for immersion is the LCD-GX but I'm looking to add an Arya as well which I believe will be a bit less immersive but have a bigger soundsatge.
I'll not replace the GX though and while the GX is branded as a gaming headphone it's really good for playing music as well.
For gaming, I drive my headphones with either a Schiit Jotunheim or a iFi Micro iDSD BL.

On the less expensive side of the scale I do really like the Penrose.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2021)

I'll have my Modius/Jotu 2 on Tuesday, I'll be joining the gang @AppleheadMay 😬

Now I just need a big boy headphone lol. @Voxata is providing me a Senn HD balanced cable for the 6XX, but I feel like I need something more substantial headphone for the Jotu 2. I truly wonder about those GL2000s. I might have to play it safe and save up for LCD2C though.

Already have a cable and adapter ready for the Koss clip ons, but that's... weird and quirky. 😂

I wish the K701 was easy to balance. I just want one in my staple.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I mean just wait for the review, though Redscape is the simple answer.


ETA for the review?  Not trying to rush you or anything, just set expectations...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2021)

Zachik said:


> ETA for the review?  Not trying to rush you or anything, just set expectations...


I'm about 80% done. Honestly gonna try and have it out by Wednesday. Sorry for the delay. I wrote out what I thought was most of it then I remembered I need to add Personal Recommendations , Who Its For, Likes and Dislikes sections. And I need to do a short video recording some differences in surround size setting.

I try not to write on the days I do IRL work because my mind is a mess when I get home. Those are the days I really hate my writing, and end up scrapping most of it. I generally hate my writing, so it's a constant battle 😂


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll have my Modius/Jotu 2 on Tuesday, I'll be joining the gang @AppleheadMay 😬
> 
> Now I just need a big boy headphone lol. @Voxata is providing me a Senn HD balanced cable for the 6XX, but I feel like I need something more substantial headphone for the Jotu 2. I truly wonder about those GL2000s.
> 
> Already have a cable and adapter ready for the Koss clip ons, but that's... weird and quirky. 😂




Congrats!
The medium Schiit stacks are really nice, so much better than the small ones.
I have the Bifrost 2/Jot 2/Lyr 3. I used to have the Jot 1 before and had the small stacks at 2 different point in time.

I have everything connect to my Bifrost 2: PC via USB, G6 via optical and Mac via Topping D10 used as a D to D converter.
I don't feel the HD6XX limiting (I have the 600 and 650), very immersive though not that big of a soundstage but I remember you are more into directional than immersive.
You'll definitely need to try the balanced cable though, both Jot 1 and 2 become a different beast when used balanced with higher impedance/less sensitive headphones.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm about 80% done. Honestly gonna try and have it out by Wednesday. Sorry for the delay. I wrote out what I thought was most of it then I remembered I need to add Personal Recommendations , Who Its For, Likes and Dislikes sections. And I need to do a short video recording some differences in surround size setting.


As long as you remember to have a paragraph comparing to other VSS solutions for movie watching...


----------



## Voxata

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll have my Modius/Jotu 2 on Tuesday, I'll be joining the gang @AppleheadMay 😬
> 
> Now I just need a big boy headphone lol. @Voxata is providing me a Senn HD balanced cable for the 6XX, but I feel like I need something more substantial headphone for the Jotu 2. I truly wonder about those GL2000s. I might have to play it safe and save up for LCD2C though.
> 
> ...



The K701 can be modded to BAL, though not simply. I prefer it SE myself as the headphone doesn't scale a ton but pairs very well with my SE gear.

The Jot2 has immense amounts of power. To the point I'm fairly low on the pot when using HE6 which is surprising. The 6XX, unlike the AKG scales very well. You might be content after hearing what this upgrade has to offer. Be sure you are running XLR between the Dac&Amp though as the Modius performs best this way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 24, 2021)

Well that's easy Zac, they're all within a hair's breadth of each other. They all offer good positional accuracy, and movie watching is going to be dependent on your headphones, not the vss used. But since Redscape has a room size setting, you can make it more immersive then the others with a bigger room size without as much reverb. So in essence, I'd say it's probably the best in terms of software.

@Voxata

Yeah I got the whole Schiit stack including the PYST XLR cables for the interconnect.

I'm ready. 👌

I'm sure the 6XX/650 will scale. I mean I also called it arguably the best Headphone of all time so. 😁

All these high end headphones come and go, but even in 20 years, the 650 will still be around and beloved.


----------



## Voxata

Glad to hear it. I absolutely agree it's right up there. I only prefer the 660S due to driving ease and to me it was the better pick for gaming due to the staging for me. I sure do miss my modded 6XX though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I love the 6X0 as the pleasant, soft, always easy on the ears tonality. It wouldn't be my only Headphone, but definitely the best secondary I can think of.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'd probably look at something else for immersion and bass. Maybe an Arya if you're in the HD800S price range. Or a TH900 MK. 2?



I personally use the TH900 mk2 for gaming - and it is amazing. Best headphones I've ever used.

I have a GL2000 on the way, so we'll see how it holds up vs the TH900 for gaming.


----------



## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy @Voxata 

Those PYST XLR cables are great because they'r so short, I have them as well. 
How did you order them, they don't seem to be making them anymore when I look on the Schiit website? I wished I ordered an extra pair like I did with the PYST RCA.

I call both the 600 and 650 arguably all time greatest headphones, I have been using both since 2008 or so.

Thanks for the tip on the AKG, I have the 7XX and was considering to have it modded to balanced although it sounds well driven from the Jot and Lyr in SE. But if it doesn't scale well there's no point to do so.

Any thoughts on the HE6 vs. Arya regarding immersion and soundstage?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 24, 2021)

AppleheadMay said:


> @Mad Lust Envy @Voxata
> 
> Those PYST XLR cables are great because they'r so short, I have them as well.
> How did you order them, they don't seem to be making them anymore when I look on the Schiit website? I wished I ordered an extra pair like I did with the PYST RCA.
> ...


I was in communication with Jason himself about some unrelated things. I know that they are having some stocking and backorder issues, so perhaps it's why everything is in flux. When I was ready to buy the stack, the XLR cables were on the site. I see they aren't now.


----------



## AppleheadMay

You can't select the XLR cables on the US site anymore, just RCA and USB.
On the EU and UK sites they're sold out and don't have a new stock date.
A pity, hese are so handy in a Schiit stack.


----------



## Lay.

deadchip12 said:


> Hơw's the gaming experience with the 800s? This is a pretty heavy investment for me and I'm worried the headphones may not provide enough bass slam and excitement in immersive singleplayer games.



Short answer: I would definitely not buy them for just gaming. It is not just the headphones that are expensive. You would allso need to invest in proper DAC/AMP with them.

That said. I like the bass quality of HD800S. With HDV820 DAC/AMP and little bit of EQ they are still my favourite EDM headphones.

I don't get any more immersion with headphones like Penrose, but it might be just me and my preferences. Penrose is still a keeper for my livingroom wireless gaming. The sound is so much better than for example Astro A50.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 24, 2021)

I'm more or less done with the rough draft of the written part of the Redscape review. I'll be posting the rough draft today in a certain place I can't mention here. For everyone else, I'll try and have it done by Tuesday, video included (which I haven't done yet).


----------



## Voxata

Yeah they are struggling. I've had an upgrade queue order halted for ages that unfortunately requires to be sent in for firmware. If you need XLR interconnects send me a PM.



Lay. said:


> Short answer: I would definitely not buy them for just gaming. It is not just the headphones that are expensive. You would allso need to invest in proper DAC/AMP with them.
> 
> That said. I like the bass quality of HD800S. With HDV820 DAC/AMP and little bit of EQ they are still my favourite EDM headphones.
> 
> I don't get any more immersion with headphones like Penrose, but it might be just me and my preferences. Penrose is still a keeper for my livingroom wireless gaming. The sound is so much better than for example Astro A50.



I'll have to be the contrasting opinion guy and share that my experience was quite different. I felt the bass quality on the 800S was kind of a 'puff puff' affair. I could see some EDM being enjoyable on it though, I just wouldn't expect much impact, texture and granularity in the bass notes.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Voxata said:


> Yeah they are struggling. I've had an upgrade queue order halted for ages that unfortunately requires to be sent in for firmware. If you need XLR interconnects send me a PM.



Very kind of you to offer me the help but since you're based in the US and I'm in Europe it would be a lot of fuss for just a pair of XLR.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> Very kind of you to offer me the help but since you're based in the US and I'm in Europe it would be a lot of fuss for just a pair of XLR.


Damn, was gonna ask you to loan me some cans.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Damn, was gonna ask you to loan me some cans.



Bad idea, a good chance I'd have to pay 31% import + 48 Euro when you send them back.

Bought a Zana Deux and arrived damaged, paid import, sent it back with the necessary paperwork for customs for repair.
When it was sent back they charged me those high import costs again saying 1 form from our postal office for the return was missing.
2 months of discussion via phone/email/snail mail and they agreed to let me have it at half the import costs or they'd return it to sender ...


----------



## Lay. (Jan 24, 2021)

Voxata said:


> I'll have to be the contrasting opinion guy and share that my experience was quite different. I felt the bass quality on the 800S was kind of a 'puff puff' affair. I could see some EDM being enjoyable on it though, I just wouldn't expect much impact, texture and granularity in the bass notes.



That is the beauty of this hobby. Everybody can experience and find out what they prefer. I have tried many headphones with more impact or more quantity in the bass notes but prefer HD800S bass over them. I don't like if there is too much midbass.

With music I EQ these about +5dB in the sub bass. With gaming I prefer them without any EQ.

The bass allso really depends on the AMP. They feel like differen headphones with different gear.


----------



## Voxata

Lay. said:


> That is the beauty of this hobby. Everybody can experience and find out what they prefer. I have tried many headphones with more impact or more quantity in the bass notes but prefer HD800S bass over them. I don't like if there is too much midbass.
> 
> With music I EQ these about +5dB in the sub bass. With gaming I prefer them without any EQ.
> 
> The bass allso really depends on the AMP. They feel like differen headphones with different gear.


Absolutely! Chain makes a huge difference. At the time I was using GS-X Mini & also the A90. Fed by D90.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 24, 2021)

I just have OCD about EQ. I feel dirty using EQ. It's the same with pad swapping. I always feel like I took away what makes a headphone what it is. So I like to listen as they are, even if an EQ or pads could fix shortcomings.

I know I've pad swapped before, but even now I'm so... Iffy about it.

Of course, you all should do what you can to make Headphones sound the way you want. It's a me problem. I just can't.

I'm like.... just buy LCD2C, and Dekoni suede pads. And then I go... It's gonna change everything I like about the sound, and ruin them. Then I second guess everything and make no decision.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Voxata said:


> Absolutely! Chain makes a huge difference. At the time I was using GS-X Mini & also the A90. Fed by D90.



Oww, GSX is rather bright, A90 superclean and a rather cheap Chinese design at a price that's way too high. Both not amps I would think of to use with the 800 series.
I had a GSX MKII long time ago and couldn't sell it fast enough, bright as a supernova. Man I hated that amp.

HD800(S)/820, in my experience with amps I had, pairs well with the three Sennheiser HD amps (very, very well actually), Jot/Lyr/Asgard, any Luxman P series and SQ series, Zana Deux, Black Widow, Violectric V281, EAR HP4. Very varying price points of course ... but a HDVA600 can be found used for less than 500$.

That said I love the Sennheiser 6XX and 8XX series and had a HD 700 a few years ago that I didn't like that much for music but was great for gaming and is a bargain when found used. That one with an Asgard and SBX G6 could make a low enough priced killer gaming set.


----------



## chriseatspizza

Hi all, just want to say a massive thank you for contributing to this post, it's extremely useful for someone like me who's new the audiophile scene and looking to delve deeper. 

I'm looking for a new set of headphones and i'd like to get some advice / input. I've got about £300 ($390) to play with and im looking to upgrade my headphone set up. I'm currently running a pair of sennheisers hd558  that i got on black friday 4/5 years ago, they've lasted me well but i feel that it's time to upgrade with the amount of time i seem to be using headphones these days. I'm currently plugging my headphones straight into the motherboard of my computer which can power headphones up to 250 ohms at a usable volume.

I spend a lot of time playing competitive games so a pair of open backed headphones with good soundstaging and imaging is essential. I listen to a wide variety of music but i predominantly listen to: techno, house, hip-hop and edm 

 I'd like the headphones to have a little more bass and general sound quality. 

I've been doing some research and i've found a few pairs that seem to be suitable, these are: 
Sennheiser hd58x 
Sennheiser hd6xx
Beyerdynamic DT 990 / 1990
Sennheiser hd700 (second hand) 
Hifiman Sundara
AKG 712 Pro 

If anyone has any other recommendations please let me know.


----------



## AppleheadMay

I'll only comment on the 3 Sennheisers.
- 58X and 6XX are great headphones but not for your music genres and competitive gameplay , rather immersive, especially the 6XX.
- 700 is great for competitive gameplay and music genres at a nice used price.
- 58X can be powered by anything and doesn't scale all that much with better amps.
- 6XX needs better amping to deliver and scales really well with better amps.
- 700 can be driven fine from your soundcard but will get better if you start to use better amps.


----------



## Zachik

chriseatspizza said:


> Hi all, just want to say a massive thank you for contributing to this post, it's extremely useful for someone like me who's new the audiophile scene and *looking to delve deeper*.


My condolences on the upcoming demise of your wallet...   
Welcome to Head-Fi.


----------



## Voxata

AppleheadMay said:


> Oww, GSX is rather bright, A90 superclean and a rather cheap Chinese design at a price that's way too high. Both not amps I would think of to use with the 800 series.
> I had a GSX MKII long time ago and couldn't sell it fast enough, bright as a supernova. Man I hated that amp.
> 
> HD800(S)/820, in my experience with amps I had, pairs well with the three Sennheiser HD amps (very, very well actually), Jot/Lyr/Asgard, any Luxman P series and SQ series, Zana Deux, Black Widow, Violectric V281, EAR HP4. Very varying price points of course ... but a HDVA600 can be found used for less than 500$.
> ...



The GS-X Mini is different, it's much cooler up top. Almost a bit rolled (I had the DACT). It's also slower so it really helped out the planars I had. It's a really decent amp. I've heard the GS-X MK2, which I would agree with your assessment there. The A90 is usual measurement based amp.. neutral but really fast. For $400 (when it's on sale) and having a really clean pre performance it's not too badly priced. It was a good pairing with my 660S when I had it.


----------



## PurpleAngel

chriseatspizza said:


> Hi all, just want to say a massive thank you for contributing to this post, it's extremely useful for someone like me who's new the audiophile scene and looking to delve deeper.
> I'm looking for a new set of headphones and I'd like to get some advice / input. I've got about £300 ($390) to play with and I'm looking to upgrade my headphone set up. I'm currently running a pair of Sennheiser's hd558  that i got on black Friday 4/5 years ago, they've lasted me well but i feel that it's time to upgrade with the amount of time i seem to be using headphones these days. I'm currently plugging my headphones straight into the motherboard of my computer which can power headphones up to 250 ohms at a usable volume.
> I spend a lot of time playing competitive games so a pair of open backed headphones with good sound staging and imaging is essential. I listen to a wide variety of music but i predominantly listen to: techno, house, hip-hop and edm
> I'd like the headphones to have a little more bass and general sound quality.
> ...


Soundmagic HP200 open headphones, more lively sound then the HD558 (but currently out of stock).
My current favorite, Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.


----------



## Zachik

Voxata said:


> The GS-X Mini is different, it's much cooler up top. Almost a bit rolled (I had the DACT). It's also slower so it really helped out the planars I had. It's a really decent amp. I've heard the GS-X MK2, which I would agree with your assessment there.


I always thought the name "GS-X Mini" is terrible - this name implies it is a scaled-down GS-X MK2 where in reality it is WAY better (IMHO, of course).
Funny, when I did not like the GS-X mk2 at CanJam - people at Headamp table looked down at me as if something is wrong with me... Peer pressure did not phase me, though


----------



## Voxata

Zachik said:


> I always thought the name "GS-X Mini" is terrible - this name implies it is a scaled-down GS-X MK2 where in reality it is WAY better (IMHO, of course).
> Funny, when I did not like the GS-X mk2 at CanJam - people at Headamp table looked down at me as if something is wrong with me... Peer pressure did not phase me, though


Yeah it didn't take long to conclude the GS-X MK2 would melt my ears off after a song or two. Mini all the way though! If you ever get a chance to demo, don't hesitate.


----------



## deadchip12

Anyone own both the 560s and the 800s? Maybe a ridiculous question but how do they compare against each other in games & movies?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Got my Modius/Jotu 2. Set everything up and everything is working perfectly save for the XLR PYST cables, where one side is louder than the other. If I switch, the bias changes to the other side. So I've ordered some 6 inch XLRs from Amazon., and they'll be here tomorrow. Hopefully it confirms it's just the cables (I'm sure it is, as RCA, and add in board RCA work perfectly).   



Koss PortaPro with KSC75X clips.


----------



## motorwayne

deadchip12 said:


> Anyone own both the 560s and the 800s? Maybe a ridiculous question but how do they compare against each other in games & movies?



I would like to know this too. Currently running some 660S and just feeling the sound stage isn't wide enough.

Also, will the SB AE-9 drive the 800S?

Cheers and roll on 2021


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Got my Modius/Jotu 2. Set everything up and everything is working perfectly save for the XLR PYST cables, where one side is louder than the other. If I switch, the bias changes to the other side. So I've ordered some 6 inch XLRs from Amazon., and they'll be here tomorrow. Hopefully it confirms it's just the cables (I'm sure it is, as RCA, and add in board RCA work perfectly).
> 
> 
> 
> Koss PortaPro with KSC75X clips.




Congrats and enjoy!
I'm still burning the Jot 2 in here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm 100% done with the Redscape review, other than the two videos showcasing the surround. It's a bit too late atm to do testing, but I'll try to have it up by end of day.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2021)

Guys I couldn't find the time to record, so I'm just going to post the review without the video examples. I'll try and get that done soon. Just won't be today. Anyways, here's the Redscape Audio review!

*You'll also find it below the 1st post of the guide, on the 3rd post **HERE**, where I have the virtual surround devices reviews, etc. A lot of people don't notice that post is the second part of my guide, so I have to mention it every once in awhile.*


----------
----------

*Redscape Audio*



$40 (software), $140 (software with headtracker unit)
*Where To Buy: **Redscape Audio*

_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Ryan Redetzke at Redscape Audio for sending the Redscape headtracking unit as well as the software for review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers and making sure they know about good products._


*Intro*​
The story here begins by mere circumstance. I was on Discord with a good audiophile friend of mine @Evshrug, and as we were discussing virtual surround (among other audio related things), He mentioned Redscape audio, and my ears immediately perked up. I just had to find out what it was about, so I reached out to Ryan Redetzke at Redscape. Ryan was immediately open to my inquiries and offered to send out the unit and software for me to play with. I have to admit, I was mainly interested in the software, particularly to see how it fared against other virtual surround dsps. Yet I couldn't say no to testing out a cool gadget like the headtracker. As I was already accustomed to headtracking via the Audeze Mobius, I had a general idea on what to expect, though without the limitation of being stuck to one headset, the Redscape headtracker makes for the more intriguing device, as you can use it with any headphone or headset you'd like.

Now, as far as the PC platform goes, we are certainly spoiled with various options for virtual surround. Redscape would have to stand out in some significant ways in order to garner any real attention and have any chance to make any sort of real impact. Pairing up the software with headtracking is certainly one way to do so. The only other headtrackers I can immediately think of are the one on the previously mentioned Audeze Mobius, which brought the technology to a wider market compared to the next two which are priced quite a bit higher than I'd consider to be consumer friendly: The headtracker on the Beyerdynamic Headzone (which I previously owned without the headtracking portion), and the Smyth Realizer. These may be considered the ultimate solutions, but it does not mean that something as affordable as the Redscape headtracker will leave you wanting.

My time with the Redscape software and headtracker has been an incredibly positive one, with good reasons. Bigger companies could stand to learn from someone like Ryan (as he is essentially Redscape Audio in its entirety). He not only managed to make such a great, simple, easy to understand software, but paired it up with a device that accommodates the user in various ways. I've spoiled some things already, so let me get started with the unit itself.



*What's In the Box*​


The small cardboard box comes with all the essentials. You get the physical headtracking unit, with a very long (I assume 9 foot) permanently affixed USB-A cable. I think a future revision should have a detachable cable instead (or be completely wireless), but no big deal. You also get a sort of sleeve where you can insert the headtracking cable and headphone cable together, which can then be zipped up, so as to stay out of the way. You also get a bundle of two different sized clear bands, a bundle of metal band holders(?), and an extra headband strap, in case the one attached to the device is too big for your headphones.



The device itself is quite small and lightweight, where I feel most of the unit weight is on the cable itself. The bottom of the unit has an anti-scuff foam pad, and the rubber strap itself is easy to remove and replace. Overall, it's not a very...blingy device, which as something being attached to a headband, you wouldn't want it to be. The less it brings attention to itself, the better.



*Unit Install*​
Installing the headtracker onto a headphone is relatively simple, though far from discreet. The cable will have to run down one side, and while you don't need to use anything but the unit itself to attach to the headphone (by wrapping the rubber strap around the headband), you'll likely want to use the silicone bands, metal pieces, and cable sleeve to attempt to keep the cable out of the way, and as unobtrusive as possible. This makes the unit a little more than unwieldy in terms of flexibilty in being able to be used with multiple headphones. If you don't mind the cable being loose along the headband and down the cup, the install and removal of the unit is incredibly easy. Up to you, really. Opt for the more permanent and less install friendly method of cable management, or let it all hang free for easy install/removal.

I personally installed it on an Audeze LCD-1 for a brief period, but felt the padding on the LCD-1 would get damaged after prolonged use, so I moved it to the Sennheiser 6XX.



The 6XX's headband padding seems better suited for the headtracker, so I decided to leave it on for the rest of the testing period.



*Software*​

The software  is where most of the magic happens, and what I'll be spending most of my time talking about. The Redscape software is simple, yet elegant, and snappy. It gets down to business, without wasting resources or extra unnecessary screens. I mentioned this earlier, and I'll say it again, this is a class leading example on how to do software. I don't understand why companies much, much bigger than Redscape can't ever manage to get software right. Yet one guy, in all his wisdom, gave us such a painless, easy interface that does everything necessary, without all the headaches. Bravo.


*Main Window:*

Upon opening from Redscape, you're greeted with the main software window.



From top to bottom, left to right, we start with:

*Toggle Power button* - This turns the headtracking on/off. It also toggles the virtual surround on/off.


*Show Head Tracker Window *- Clicking on this, opens up a window with a image of a dummy head and the direction it is currently facing (while headtracker is ON). The head will move along with your head movements in real time, without delay. The top left has a shortcut for the settings menu.



*Center Audio* - Back at the main software screen, the next button is the Center Audio button, which will center the headtracker. Very useful if you find that the headtracker has drifted out of position.


*Equalizer* - Clicking on the EQ graphic opens up the Equalizer window which has got to be the most dense and complete add on EQ I've ever seen on a program not focused on EQ.



The sheer granularity and options to tune the sound to your liking is...insane. While I may not be into EQ in general, if you are, there's quite a lot to take in and adjust here. To start with, the main graph allows you to adjust the amplitude. Below, you can choose between 10 frequency points, choosing between peak, low shelf, high shelf, high pass, low pass, and having 10 different gain points, as well as 10 different 'Q' knobs (which I have no clue what they do). I'm certain EQ heads have plenty of here to mess with and enjoy. On the top left you can enable/disable the EQ, load, save, and reset your own EQ presets.


*Change Mode* - Back at the main window, the last option after EQ is the 'Change Mode' toggle. Here you can select between Game, Movie, and Music, which are presets that adjust the Room and Volume knobs below. Personally, I think it's best left to user choice adjust the knobs which I'll touch up on below.


*Input* - Below the previously mentioned toggles is the Input levels which will rise and fall depending on which channel is currently outputting sound. You get levels for Left, Right, Low Field (sub), Left Side, Right Side, Left Back, Right Back. I love this in particular, because it lets me know whether a source is actually surround enabled or plain stereo. There are certain games I play which are stereo only. With this, I'll know, so I can select to play them in regular stereo.


*Room* - This knob adjust the 'Room size', in terms of its virtual surround dsp. This setting alone makes Redscape audio's software worth it over its competition. On PC, Dolby Atmos, Windows Sonic, DTS Headphone X, Waves NX, and other competition lack any size adjustment, making them far less ideal in optimizing the virtual surround to your own prefernces. You may get some presets, but none with any fine adjustment like the Redscape software. Unlike the Audeze Mobius which allows for virtual surround room size adjustment for Waves NX, the Waves NX software alone does not have a similar adjustment.


*Volume* - Self explanatory. This adjusts software volume. There is an issue here in that the volume can go past clipping point, so from my own experience, I suggest setting volume to the notch at 2 o'clock, and not going past that. Here is Ryan's response to my questions on this:

_"Max volume in Redscape does push past Windows volume, which will result in clipping. Since the processing simulates room reflections, and also allows up to 7.1 channels of input, the output to 2 channels can be much louder than what a single channel of the input can be. Basically, the ideal volume depends on what is being input and where the Room knob is set to - I typically just leave the Volume knob at default and don't experience any clipping. You can right click on any of the controls to return them to their default positions."_

As he stated, turning on surround does reduce volume output, so if you find yourself needing more volume, you can mess with it here, just be wary of the potential to clip. Personally, having an amp with plenty of headroom will make this a non-issue. Just don't forget that turning off the virtual surround will go back to unprocessed 2 channel, which is noticeably louder, so prepare beforehand by lowering amp volume.


*Output *- This displays the output levels of the left and right channels. Remember that 7.1 is being downmixed to virtual surround stereo for your headphones, so this just shows which side is currently outputting anything.



*Settings:*



On the top right of the main window is the cog wheel which opens the settings window. The settings window is packed full of important options, so you'll want to make sure all of this is set properly.


*Audio I/O - *Here can select your Input/Output, which is between Wasapi and Asio. I've personally left it at Wasapi, and have had no issues with it. Your input device will likely be named Redscape Virtual Audio Device, and your Output will be whatever source you want the software to affect. For example, if I set the output to the Schiit Hel, once I select Redscape Audio as my sound device in the Windows sound panel, the Schiit Hel will be affected by Redscape. Bear in mind that setting windows to the Schiit Hel itself WON'T be affected. You MUST select Redscape as the main audio device.

Below your output device are 3 cogs which open 3 different settings:

Output Format - choose between exclusive or shared. Exclusive has lower latency, but until you change the output device or go back to Shared output, if you try and set your main window sound device as say Schiit Hel, you won't hear anything (under Exclusive). Shared is fine in terms of latency, but if you really want the few frames less latency, just set it to Exclusive, and when you wanna use the device without Redscape, change the output device in Redscape to something else not in use, and select the device you want to use in the windows sound control panel. That's how I do it.


Latency - Here you can set the requested latency as low as 10ms under Exclusive, 22ms under Shared. Per Ryan: "With WASAPI, you are requesting to use a certain audio buffer size. Your driver may not allow that size, so it is picking the size closest to what you're asking. In this case, 22ms."


Buffer - Here you can set the output buffer size, which is 15ms at lowest under Exclusive, 33ms under Shared. Keep this as low as possible unless you get stuttering or audio drop outs.


*Head Tracker*

Status - Lets you know whether the device is connected.


Version - Which current update you're on.


Tracker Orientation - You can choose between cable right and cable left. Obviously very useful, because it depends on how you mounted the device to your headphones. You definitely want to make sure this setting is corrected.


Auto-Center - This slider changes the amount of time it takes for the headtracker to auto-center. Right clicking sets it back to its default value. Per Ryan, it only attempts to auto-center when you are within 30 degrees of the center.


*Options - *Most of these are self explanatory. Options to Swap Rear/Side Surrounds, Surround Channels -3DB in downmix, Show Tooltips, Always Show in Taskbar, and Toggle EQ When Power Is Toggled


* Speakers*

Stereo Spread - defaults at 60 degrees between 10 min and 110 max.


Below stereo spread, you can adjust volume levels of each channel.


*Anatomy Customization*

Head Width - affects the timing differences between the ears.


Ear Size - can affect perceived height of the sound sources.

I found that leaving these alone suited me best, but personalizing this to taste may be better for others.


*Hotkeys - *Here you can set hotkey/shortcuts for Center, Power, and the various modes (Game, Movie, Music). I found having a hotkey function for Centering to be the most useful for whenever the headtracking drifted off center.


*About - *Here you can check for version update, open a help page, email support link, and various copyrights and legal information.


*Final Software Impressions:*

That's it as far as what's on the Redscape software. Sounds like a lot, but really, it's all well laid out and easy to use. As for as audio-centric software, Redscape Audio is easily top 1 out of all audio software I have personally used. Simple, effective, painless. I honestly couldn't ask for much to be done here. If anything, have room/volume horizontal sliders instead of knobs that you need to click on and drag up or down, which is about the only thing I find odd, though not problematic. Just by looking at the knobs, you would think that you have to drag the mouse clockwise or left to right. This may need an intuitive change. Also, if updated with a slider for these, maybe show percentages for the level as well. One other thing I'd hope for is a toggle for a strict volume limit, so as not to go past clipping point. Other than that, the software passes with flying colors.



*Performance*​
Moving on to how well Redscape Audio works, I'll begin with Redscape with just the software first.

*Software:*

Among all my favorite PC-centric virtual surround DSPs, Redscape is my favorite to use in terms of software only devices. I prefer it over the pc based solutions:

Dolby Atmos
DTS Headphone X
Windows Sonic
Waves NX
Razer Surround
Boom 3D

This is significantly in part due to the room size adjustment being available in Redscape which can noticeably affect the virtual surround's soundstaging capability, allowing positional cues more space and accuracy. Other virtual surround software-only DSPs are so limited, and most seem to be stuck at small room sizes which hamper their ability to give a convincing emulation of a room full of speakers. Their positional cues for speakers are too restricted and close to the head in comparison. With Redscape's DSP, you can adjust to make the virtual speakers sound nicely separated without excess reverb at most settings. Redscape commands a premium over the others, but I'd say it's well worth it for this alone.

In terms of all virtual surround DSPs, (including those found on external devices that can be used on PCs), I wouldn't say Redscape is my absolute fave, but it is one of the best at maintaining a high amount of fidelity with the least amount of reverb.

To name other virtual surround DSPs I like (available through external devices):

Dolby Headphone Room 2
Creative SBX at 67-100%
Creative SXFI (as tested on the Creative Air headset)
Waves NX (on the Audeze Mobius) at about 40% room ambience
Sennheiser GSX (on the GSX1000) with one + symbol
Beyerdynamic Headzone

I'd say Redscape's closest competition would be Creative SBX and Waves NX in terms of good performance to reverb ratio. I don't have all these to do a true comparison, but I'd say Redscape does fairly well even amongst these DSPs, and I wouldn't feel a pressing need to replace Redscape with any other DSP, even if it's not the very best.

The great thing about Redscape's Room setting is that even at its absolute lowest setting, it's still quite effective at surround emulation. That is more than I can say for many of the others with size adjustment, which I feel the lower settings mostly zap away the potential to emulate surround effectively. Not so with the Redscape DSP.

Even full on at 100% with extra reverb, it's still quite usable. In terms of personal preference, I like my Room setting at about... 4 o'clock, where the max is about 5 o'clock. I feel the vast majority of the room size adjustment has very low reverb, and you don't get a sudden spike in reverb until past 4 on the knob.

Below (soon, hopefully in a day) will be an example video with Redscape off, On at the lowest Room setting, On with half room setting, On with max room setting, and On with my preference of about 4 o'clock room setting. Remember to turn OFF ALL your surround emulation prior to listening to the video, and wear headphones.

*****Reserved for video example*****

Hopefully you can tell how beneficial and transformative having a virtual surround DSP like Redscape can be, and how you can gain much more spatial awareness compared to basic stereo.


*Headtracker:*

Now, while my guide is based on headphones for use with gaming first, I do review things based on their own merits, with a section on how they fare for gaming. So with that said, I can spoil things here and tell you that headtracking isn't necessarily a benefit to traditional gaming where you're going to keep your head pointed at the screen. With games, audio cues are relative to your screen point of view rather than your own head's position. So as I said with the Audeze Mobius and its headtracking, I'll say the same with Redscape's headtracking in that it isn't actually beneficial in any real way for gaming.

It adds an extra dimension in immersion, but you have to look at it as say you would your own home theater setup. Your brain as a gamer already knows to associate sound cues relative to your character or avatar's point of view or position on screen.

That doesn't mean the headtracking is useless or not worth the consideration. Nothing brings home the fact that virtual surround is essentially a virtual room full of speakers than the headtracking, which actually helps sell the illusion, by allowing you to rotate around in the room and get a sense of speakers remaining in the appropriate virtual direction you'd expect them to be in. So if you're listening to an audio cue at 2 o'clock, and you make a 180 degree turn, that same audio cue will now come from 8 o'clock instead. It really makes you feel like you're transported into a different world, in terms of audio.

I'd say headtracking benefits non-gaming uses the most, like movies, tv, music, and every other form of media. Anything you're not in control of. Anything where your brain can register, "oh, I'm listening to a home theater setup", without the restriction of the speaker placement never moving around your head space.

With all that said, how well does the headtracker perform? It perform fantastically. It's quite responsive with no noticeable delay between your head movement and audio relative to headtracking position. The only thing I wish for in a future iteration is a low latency wireless headtracker so as not to be tethered  by a long cable, and perhaps a much stronger auto center, so it centers if you keep your face on a screen for 5 seconds or so, to combat drift even more.

Drift isn't an issue, but my testing position isn't what you'd consider normal. Whereas most people may be sitting on a traditional computer desk where you have your keyboard in front of you, I mainly sit in the middle of the room with my TV as my PC monitor. When I play games, I don't use keyboard and mouse but a controller instead (yeah, yeah, I can hear all the keyboard and mouse master race jokes incoming). This makes the auto center hotkey harder to get to, as I don't have the keyboard next to me at all times. So with a lot of head movement and laying my headset down, the centering starts to drift. Hence why a very strict auto-center that refreshes even more would be nicer for people like me.

Since the virtual surround is based off 7.1, you can't expect more than horizontal deviation with the headtracking, which is similar to all virtual 7.1 surround processors. It is a limitation of the source, not so much the headtracker or emulation.

Below is an example of gaming with headtracking enabled. I'll keep my character still for some parts, and move my head for others. I will mention each as it happens.

*****reserved for video example******



*Personal Recommendations*​

*Media:*

Unless you're ok with the idea of listening to two virtualized front speakers, I personally wouldn't go for any virtual surround in terms of music. After all, most music is made with 2 channel in mind, and stereo does 2 channel audio wonderfully. So for music, I'd still say most people will likely favor disabling the surround emulation unless they want a different kind of sound presentation.

For gaming, my recommendation is to enable the virtual surround, but skip the headtracking. As I previously mentioned, most gamers have adapted our brains into understanding audio cues as they relate to the view of the screen or character. Headtracking adds that extra layer that may or may not be detrimental. Personally, headtracking when gaming is fine and not particularly detrimental, but it's not beneficial either. So I'd say, enable virtual surround, and if you want an extra layer of immersion, enable headtracking, though not necessary.

For TV shows, movies, podcasts, concerts, etc, headtracking is a fantastic addition, and always enjoyable. This is the next step in evolving virtual surround to truly emulate a home theater setup, and I'd recommend it to anyone wanting more out of their virtual surround experience.


*Practicality:*

Dealing with the headtracking unit is relatively simple, but it does take some minor install time, and you're likely going to wanna keep it on the headphone of choice at all times. Constantly attaching/detaching it when not in use is impractical, so if you're going to use the headtracking, I advise to put the device on a headphone you're willing to keep the headtracker affixed to for a long time.



I mainly tested it with the 6XX which has the perfect gap in the headband for the device's band to wrap around. With headphones that have broad headband padding, you'll have to be willing to allow the padding to get squished, or you'll have to mount the device off center.

As far as travel/portability....eh, I'd probably keep it at home. Sure, you could take it to your office, cubicle, library, or whatever place you fancy, you're bound to get looks, and get asked why it looks like you're hooked up to the Matrix, with the multiple cables between your headphone, and headtracker going to your PC/laptop.



Keep it at home. Save yourself the embarrassment.


*Who It's For:*

Redscape Audio is two parts. One is the software, the other is the headtracker. You can just go software only, or you can do the software and headtracker. I'll start with the software. As with all virtual surround DSPs, as long as you understand that this is not meant to be compared to a headphone's basic stereo performance, and is meant to instead be taken as a sort of bridge between you and a 'virtual' home theater setup, the software will be a fantastic addition to your PC sound enjoyment. Again, do not compare Redscape audio vs your headphone in unprocessed stereo. You wouldn't put a headphone against a room of speakers, so don't do it here with virtual surround. If you just want the same exact headphone experience you're used to with more dimensionality, sorry to break it to you, but that's not how virtual surround DSPs work. Virtual surround isn't for you. You can just stick to basic stereo, while everyone else gains the benefit of having actual 360 horizontal directionality.

The headtracker is for those who want the next layer in emulating life in virtual form. No longer are the virtual speakers limited to the same position based on your head direction. Now the speakers will move around you on a horizontal axis much like real speaker audio placement would when you rotate your head left or right. Height, tilt, and distance based sound adjustment is not yet possible with Redscpae and other similar types of virtual surround DSPs, though I feel there will be a future where it will be possible. Full room headtracking. As long as you understand current headtracking limitations, you'll find it to be an impressively immersive addition to virtual surround. Just not one entirely necessary as far as video gaming goes.



*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes:*

Fleshed out software functions and features
Software simplicity and intuitiveness
Robust and expert level software equalizer
Virtual surround sound quality and performance
Effective and versatile headtracking unit

*Dislikes:*

Little gaming necessity for headtracking
One of the pricier virtual surround softwares
Not wireless, meaning dealing with a long cable



*Final Impressions*​
Redscape Audio is a sort of miracle in that it give us a fully functional software that is fantastic and easy to use, provides a great headtracker, and is one of very few softwares available that allow full room size/reverb adjustment. The headtracker may not be essential for gaming, but it makes all other forms of media that much more immersive and enjoyable. Finally, you get an affordable alternative to something like the Audeze Mobius without being limited to just one headphone. Redscape proves itself versatile. If you're on the fence about which virtual surround DSP to use on PC, my immediate recommendation is to look no further. It demands a premium over something like Atmos on PC or DTS-X, but it is drastically more customizable than either. Redscape is the one to get.


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## ronfifer

What about Directional accuracy versus other VSS software like dolby atmos for headphones and waves nx?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 27, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> What about Directional accuracy versus other VSS software like dolby atmos for headphones and waves nx?


Don't expect huge differences. I'd say Redscape falls in the middle of the pack. Mind you, they're all within fractions of single digit percentages to me. They're all going to give you which direction sounds are coming from very well. The bigger difference will be in how much depth and space they give you between you and the directional cue. Since Redscape can change the room size much better than other software, I'd say in terms of software based virtual surround, it's near the top, since the others like Atmos and DTS-X don't, on PC.

I'd put the hardware based solutions above. They may have more reverb, but I feel their soundstage depth is better. I literally mentioned this in the review. If you don't mind adding an external device, I place those virtual surround dsps above. However, not enough to make me give up the convenience of Redscape as a software.


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## AppleheadMay

Bought Redscape this morning, software only.
Been trying it with some music to test and then with a game.
I must say I like it much better than Waves NX, more immersive, nicer sound.


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## Zachik

AppleheadMay said:


> Bought Redscape this morning, software only.
> Been trying it with some music to test and then with a game.
> I must say I like it much better than Waves NX, more immersive, nicer sound.


Very very tempted to do the same (for movies. not for gaming).
Any idea whether 1 license allows to install on multiple PCs? Their FAQ does not mention it... I have 4 PCs at home, and use 2 of them for occasional TV / movie streaming from Netflix / Hulu / Amazon.


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## AppleheadMay

No idea, I have a PC and Mac and just checked if they had a Mac version as well which they don't.
Best send them a mail.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 27, 2021)

Ryan is very receptive of communicating about his product. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer your questions. If your main goal use isn't gaming, I'd really recommend the headtracker, tbh. I know it's $100, but it really helps the sense of being surrounded by speakers when you can move about and the speakers act as if as if they're in your room.


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## Chastity (Jan 31, 2021)

Hi Gang, I did my review of the various VSS software / hardware solutions that I own, and am ready to give my impressions.  The solutions I will be discussing are:

Creative SBX (Creative G6)
Dolby Atmos For Headphones (referred to as DAH in this article) from Dolby Access add-on
DTS:Headphone X (DTS:HX)
Nahimic (part of Asus Sonic Studio III)
THX Spatial Sound
Waves NX
Windows Sonic (because everyone has this)

Hardware used for testing:  Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro w/ Dekoni Elite Hybrids

Now, I've been doing 3D Audio reviews since my days of my association with 3DSoundsurge.  The Gold Standard back then was CMSS-3D, and forcing 7.1 configurations (either in Windows or in game) to get your HRTF.  That had an eerie accuracy about it, and I was able to hunt down prey via audio cues.  (I was also using a set of HD-580 Precisions, then later my Sony MDR-SA5000, which are some seriously wide cans)  Getting that level of HRTF experience has been difficult, but here in 2021 things have improved.  I'll be discussing gaming quality, movie, and music listening (2.0 and 5.1 sources)

*Virtual Surround Sound options:*

Windows Sonic

This solution comes with every Windows 10 OS installation.  I remember testing this when it first came out, and it was a horror story.   I am happy to say that Microsoft has given it some love, and it's gotten to the point of being usable.  The Windows Sonic solutions (this plus DAH and DTS:HX) all use the Windows Sonic audio interface, and will bypass your Windows speaker selection, and let the applications think you have a surround setup.  (Not sure if it's limited to 7.1)  Mind you, games need to be Windows Sonic aware to benefit, which can be an issue for some older titles.

I find the model they use is not aggressive, and it's not too hard to detect directionality, but at the same time it won't distort any music played much at all.  I do not like their use of the hollow can effect they use for HRTF hinting, especially for behind.  This ruins immersion for me.  The upside is that this VSS is free, and free is hard to argue with.

Creative SBX

This is primarily a software solution, tho the Creative hardware can accelerate it.  In this day and age of massive Multicore CPU's, it's irrelevant  You can either use a hardware solution like the SBX G6, or any other Creative soundcard / USB device, or use the MB3 software suite. ($30)  This is their upgrade from CMSS-3D (😭 Long Live The King) and I don't find it as accurate.  I feel it's biased to having the front channels too far left / right, and rear cues sound too similar to side channels.  You CAN use it, and adjust the Surround setting for the amount of spaciousness / effect you desire, and train yourself how to pick up on the cues better. I wish there was some tweaking / training you could do for the affect engine.

When you use SBX, you shouldn't use Direct Mode.  The modelling gets squashed, especially the Center channel.  So ideally, you use Audio Effects Mode, and enable Surround.  You'll be surprised the amount of FUD on the forums there is about how to set this up properly, especially involving Direct Mode.  SBX devices also come with EAX support, which can be useful for older titles.

As for the modelling quality, SBX doesn't use a lot of heavy reverb (unless you max out the Surround Setting), and the Surround field is circular.  Their choice allows for minimal invasiveness on the Audio Quality, and has a pleasing presentation.  For gaming, it's suggested to use 67% Surround, and for music 11%.  Even 0% Surround On is better than Surround off for the quality of the HRTF imaging. As mentioned before, rear cues are the biggest weakness with this solution.

The SBX hardwares support an option that you can do a HRTF mix over both Line-Out and SPDIF-Out (max 48KHz), so you can use your Creative device as your Virtualizer, and pair it with dedicated DAC and amps.

Dolby Atmos For Headphones

If you want a single solution for everything, this is a good contender.  The sound field is circular, and smooth.  It also doesn't butcher with room acoustic modelling, so you get good game audio quality.  The direction and distance cues are apparent, and you can train yourself to work with this solution. Mind you, everyone has their preference as to what works best, so I do highly suggest you try out demos and see which works best for you.  Atmos will also render above/below cues if the game supports this.

You'll get the best rendering of the audio field if your game supports outputting a Dolby-encoded stream.  This way the engine gets the audio cue info in their own format.  There are quite a few games that support some form of Dolby output, like Shadow of the Tomb Raider (Atmos) and Diablo 3 (ProLogic).

The soundfiled generated is quite smooth, and not overly reverbed. While keeping audio quality, it can make some directionality not so obvious, but training yourself can solve this easily.  You can select Gaming, Movie, Music, and Voice profiles, and have an option for three Custom profiles with EQ. You can also toggle on/off the Volume Leveling in the Custom profiles, which may be preferable to taste.

This Windows Sonic plug-in is sold via the Microsoft Store for $14.99, but it does go on sale occasionally for 20% off, at $10.99.

DTS:Headphones X

Much of what I mentioned about DAH also applies here, but their soundfield presentation is not the same.  They use a subtle more reverb to enhance directional and distance cues, making them more obvious, at a sacrifice of a little audio quality.  It also uses a circular presentation.  Like DAH, best quality comes from games that support DTS encoded streaming.  Rear cues are easier to detect, and I can see how this may be preferable to some.

I would like to discuss the Headphone Profiles.  DTS provides some EQ enhancements based on your headphone of choice, and also include generic IEM and Over-ear profiles.  In a recent update, they also finally added a None option.  This is a game changer, as I do my own EQ for the headphones, and thus I get the best presentation in detail retrieval. (Also my DT-1990 does not have a provided profile)  Having this option has given me a more pleasant experience than in the past, and thus improved it's ranking with myself.  

As for customizing, you have two options:  Balanced and Spatious.  I found Balanced to be too claustrophobic for the DT-1990, once I got the EQ issue settled, so I prefer Spacious.

Also available from the Windows Store, at the same pricing as DAH, and the same 20% discount at times.

Nahimic

I find Nahimic to be a good solution, tho not my favorite.  The SS3 app allows me to connect it with other devices, and not just my Realtek onboard audio.  This was a plus for when listening to music, as it also has a toggle to upmix Stereo to Surround.  When off, 2.0 sounded normal, and when I played 5.1 music, it did the HRTF mixing in a pleasant way, without making the music sound shaped.  In gaming, it's better than Windows Sonic, but HRTF cues are subtle, but clean sounding.  Rear cues are more defined than SBX.  My issue with it is that the SS3 app does not offer the ability to force Windows into a surround mode, which can be an issue for some games.  However, if you can force it in a game, or music source, like I can with 5.1 tracks, then you get the HRTF Mix.

Nahimic does not sell their software direct to consumer, but is packaged with gamer headphones and motherboards.

THX Spatial Sound

This is a mediocre solution, which is too bad because this app does have some very nice customizing options.  You can move the speaker placements, and adjust the loudness of each channel.   Tho, in the end, I heard some undesirable distortions from the imaging effects that I did not care for, and as such it did not last long installed.

You can buy a license through Razer for $19.99, and if you own their gear, they can include a 50% discount code, or just outright include it.

Waves NX

This solution took some time to grow on me.  This is not a circular sound field solution, but is doing Room Speaker Placement modelling.  This gives the impression of being in a room with actual speaker placements.  For music, this is evil incarnate, as I much prefer what some of the other do.  Tho for gaming, this can be quite effective.  However, there is a caveat:  YOU MUST DO THE HEAD CALIBRATIONS.

The default settings are for a rather small head, and these settings affect the timings for the HRTF cues.  I didn't cafe for the presentation with defaults, so I decided to grab a tape measure and do the measurements.  WOW.  What a difference.  What started as something mediocre became eerie, and cues very easy to discern both direction and distance.  This reminded me of CMSS-3D quality.  So yes, measure your head.  Currently this is my choice for gaming surround, and TY to myself for measuring.  HRTF cues are quite apparent, and not chock full of Reverb that lessens sound quality, but is applied with precision.

I just did some game testing, and I had a NPC walk past me, and I was able to successfully gauge how far he was, and where off-center he was behind me with accuracy.  So footstep monitoring is checked and noted.

As for customizing, this is rather limited.  You have Multimedia (medium), Voice (intimate), and Movie Theatre (spacious).  You also have your head circumference, and ear spacing arc, which is explained in the nice included Help.  You also have an option to use a camera for head movement tracking, and/or their Bluetooth Tracker.  Nice that it's wireless, but $99.  (At the moment, you can buy the Waves NX Advanced VST plug-in + Tracker for $59)  I have been musing about trying to use the VST plugin in conjunction with the NX Virtual Sound Device from the Waves NX game app.  I could load it into EQ APO and see if I can use the customizing UI that is far more detailed, and allowing for room shaping.  The game device gives me the Windows Audio settings for games to do 7.1.

Waves NX is $9.99, tho this week there is a 40% sale, so you can nab it for $6.






*Movie Watching*

Most movies and TV programs use encoded audio, either Dolby or DTS, in some flavor.  The 2 Windows Sonic plugins Dolby Access and DTS:X can decode those streams and do the HRTF encoding, as intended by the engineers.  This can go beyond simple 7.1 as DTS:X and Atmos have speaker configs that have above and below satellites, essentially providing a full 360 degree experience.  This is why it's important to set up your player to bitstream these, or you will lose these above/below cues.

You can use the other HRTF packages, but they will limit you to listening to 7.1 channels.

For Dolby Access, just use the Movie profile, as this profile matches the profile the engineers encoded for.  DTS:X just does this automagically.  Also note these plug-ins will decode earlier encoding technologies, like Dolby Digital + or ProLogic I or II, for example.

This is why I suggest to anyone watching movies or TV on their PC to have both plug-ins, in order to match encoded stream types.  Not many releases have both, since the studio would have to license both, and why do the work twice?

For fun I tried out Waves NX with some 5.1 videos, and it does a nice job, however, I still prefer the other proprietary decoders.  You just get better immersion, and the Center (Voice) channel is more prominant, as probably intended by the audio encoders.

*EDIT:  I had a discussion about watching movies and surround options in PM and I wanted to share the responses here as well:*

"If you use Redscape for watching anything that is Atmos or DTS-MA encoded, you will lose the extra channels and be limited to 7.1.  Plus their HRTF model is not the same as Dolby and DTS.

Personally, why limit yourself to only one solution?  I have all the ones I discussed in my review, and they weren't very expensive.  Dolby and DTS were $11 each, Waves NX I got for $6.  SBX is from my G6, which was the most expensive to own.  Nahimic came with my motherboard software.  THX I tested their trial. (And I won't be buying)  Out of your Head, I also tested their trial, and did not like.  (Too much room shaping and deviance from source)

The only ones I haven't tested is GSX, Redscape, and SXFi.  None of the current SXFi solutions do it out their digital port, meaning I would have to use their DAC and amp. (feh)  I'd have to check on GSX units to see if they can output HRTF over SPDIF.  (I have a very nice AK4497 DAC, and why should I have to compromise?)

Another thing I look for is sampling rate support.  The Windows Sonics ones cap at 24/48.  Waves NX can do above that, but above 96KHz it gets iffy.  (Sometimes it works, other times it gets errors)   The G6 SPDIF-Out is hard capped at 48Hz.  Reason I check is use higher sampling rates to bypass Windows and DAC resampling, and because I have a nice collection of 24/96 6 channel music.

To use Redscape, you'd have to decode the movie audio internally on your player, and then output the 7.1, which will then be shaped by the acoustic model.  If you use the Windows Sonics with matching plug-in, then you bitstream the undecoded audio to the plug-in, which will shape it according to their model, which is what the audio was originally encoded to.  So expect the HRTF audio to be the closest match as the sound engineers intended to be heard. "


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## ronfifer (Jan 27, 2021)

Thank you chastity. I am gaming with the waves NX demo (the $9.99 app), playing battlefield 5. It lowered the volume of footsteps banging on the floor and the volume of gunshots and explosions compared to Performance mode in Dolby Atmos, in a good way, making my brain having to work less to identify the cues around me. BUT, wavenx fails me completely when the enemy is in my very near proximity, the sense of depth gets distorted, i can't tell how far the enemy is or even in which direction. I never felt so confused when gaming with K702 headphones. I wonder if setting my Head dimensions into the app would fix this?

2nd question: To facilitate choice of VSS when gaming, is there an online reference that tells us which audio encoding is each game using (dolby vs dts)? Shadow of tomb raider makes it clear they are encoding with dolby. But many other games don't mention it and i don't know where to look to find the answer.


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## Gun21 (Jan 27, 2021)

Chastity said:


> Hi Gang, I did my review of the various VSS software / hardware solutions that I own, and am ready to give my impressions.  The solutions I will be discussing are:
> 
> Creative SBX (Creative G6)
> Dolby Atmos For Headphones (referred to as DAH in this article) from Dolby Access add-on
> ...


@Chastity Brilliant post +10.

I've always liked SBX for the least intrusive reverb. You don't need to remember to switch it off everytime if you want to watch a YouTube video - I find it the most usable. 

The others have too much reverb - you really have to remember to switch it off for normal duties - but then again maybe that's they key to the perfect surround format. SBX is not to be sniffed at, and I'd be inclined to agree that it's not strong on rear cues, but it's the one I've always gravitated to.


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## Zachik

@Chastity - nice write-up.  Couple things I hope you could add:
1. Your opinions / analysis for movie watching surround (as opposed to gaming).
2. Additional solutions. Namely, Out-Of-Your-Head and Redscape.

Thanks again!


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## motorwayne

Chastity said:


> Hi Gang, I did my review of the various VSS software / hardware solutions that I own, and am ready to give my impressions.  The solutions I will be discussing are:
> 
> Creative SBX (Creative G6)
> Dolby Atmos For Headphones (referred to as DAH in this article) from Dolby Access add-on
> ...


@Chastity Thank you for the reviewing/input  
When I started reading your post, my eyes were wide, especially when you mentioned the CMSS holy grail, I too feel that way. As you say SBX is good, but not as accurate, I feel it is even a bit muddy with those cues, where CMSS makes them stick out. I might spend more time trying to get my Titanium HD to work smoothly under Win10.

After reading your article I installed WaveNX and measured my head as suggested. My feedback is I felt the distancing pick ups for zombies (DayZ open world player here) was happening when they were closer, and with less accurate distacing than I'm normally used to. The airiness created with the various presets was also over powering in a sense other than "voice", but maybe thats because I've been used to living inside my head with the SBX setup?

Anyways, very interested in you continued article.

Regards


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## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Hi Gang, I did my review of the various VSS software / hardware solutions that I own, and am ready to give my impressions.  The solutions I will be discussing are:
> 
> Creative SBX (Creative G6)
> Dolby Atmos For Headphones (referred to as DAH in this article) from Dolby Access add-on
> ...



Interesting that you set the G6 to 67% Surround. I found 50% to strike the perfect balance between audio quality and accuracy. Would you consider SBX to be your preferred choice over all the VSS options?


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## AppleheadMay

@Mad Lust Envy @Chastity

Thank you for the nice review of Redscape MLE and the same goes for the useful overview Chastity.

I do always wonder though what DSP is best used based on what input format a game or movie send out?
I mean like Stereo, 5.1, 7.1, Dolby, Dolby Atmos, DTS, DTS:X, surround formats from older games  ...

And indeed, like @ronfifer asked: how do we find what game outputs what?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 27, 2021)

Well most of pc software is just gonna use (I assume) raw pcm. And external devices mainly only decode from Dolby Digital.

Anyone who likes SBX because of least processing really should look into Redscape. Even at 0% room size, the virtual surround it's effective, with zero reverb.

Me, personally If I don't get an out of head type of soundstage, it's not worth it to me, which is why I like the bigger space DSPs, and larger room size. I.e. SBX at 100%, Dolby Headphone 2, GSX at 1+, Redscape at about 4 o'clock, etc.

Of course there is a limit, where reverb can be too much,b which is why I would never use DH3, GSX at 2++ symbols, etc.

I don't generally like smaller room sizes (SBX at 50%) because it brings rear directional cues too close to the head, and makes it harder to identify rear cues. If I have to struggle even a split second noticing whether a sound is in front or behind me, it's not worth it. So sacrificing some quality to be able to hear things DEFINITELY behind me, is all worth it.

This is why I really don't care for the PC based Atmos or DTS. No way to change from their small room sizes. The limited customization doesn't make a difference.

Redscape might be the best at having the optimal room size to quality ratio.


----------



## motorwayne

Right, after reading all this and downloading WaveNX for a try and not liking it, I once again got stuck into the X-fi HD, cut away some of the shielding to make way for the big red opamps. I added some Burson V6 Vivid's single's and double's to the card, separated the Yeti Mic to it's own USB channel and fired it up. I can not tell you how happy I am to again hear the CMSS in all it's glory! and to be using Discord at the same time without issues.

Carry on, I'm weeping happy tears  LOL


----------



## Chastity (Jan 28, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> BUT, wavenx fails me completely when the enemy is in my very near proximity, the sense of depth gets distorted, i can't tell how far the enemy is or even in which direction. I never felt so confused when gaming with K702 headphones. I wonder if setting my Head dimensions into the app would fix this?


Yes, inputting the head measurements will fine tune the HRTF timings, and give you a more instinctual experience of what you expect.  Mind you some headphones have no intimacy, like the HD-800 series.  Very wide (artificially so perhaps) but no intimacy.



Zachik said:


> Out-Of-Your-Head and Redscape.


I tried Out-Of-Your-Head and I did not like the Room Modelling.  Very artificial sounding, and utter lack of immersion.  I think that's a work-in-progress, at least for the game edition.  There's no demo of Redscape, and I'm on Disability, so I have to wait for monies.



motorwayne said:


> After reading your article I installed WaveNX and measured my head as suggested. My feedback is I felt the distancing pick ups for zombies (DayZ open world player here) was happening when they were closer, and with less accurate distacing than I'm normally used to. The airiness created with the various presets was also over powering in a sense other than "voice", but maybe thats because I've been used to living inside my head with the SBX setup?


Make sure the head measurements (cranial and ear-canal arc) are accurate.  On my setup, I could tell exactly how far something is, and where around me it is, even if on top of me.  You could experiment with these settings to see what works best for your hearing.  The ear arc one goes from ear canal to ear canal around the back of the head.



duranxv said:


> Interesting that you set the G6 to 67% Surround. I found 50% to strike the perfect balance between audio quality and accuracy. Would you consider SBX to be your preferred choice over all the VSS options?


67% Surround is the Recommended default setting from Creative for Gaming.  Ultimately you decide what setting is best.  Of my preferences, currently Waves NX is mine, as I seem to finally tuned it for my hardware and my psychoacoustics. Like I mentioned, I had a CMSS-3D moment with Waves NX.  My second runner up is DTS:X, because of the better cue info, once I was able to disable the EQ it was applying.  (I didn't like it before with any of the profiles, even Generic ones)

One of the things I plan on doing is testing the VSS engines out with TWS buds.  I'll also do my movie listening, but I clued that in earlier:  Using the matching decoder with the audio encoding of the disc or scene rip will have the best effects.  You just need to have the player bitstream the encoded stream.  (You can use DirectSound, because Windows 10 is finally bitperfect over DirectSound)  Watching "John Wick" Atmos with Dolby Access is an immersive treat, use the Movie Profile. (obviously)


----------



## Zachik

@Mad Lust Envy - did you try Out-Of-Your-Head?
Apparently, @Chastity was not impressed. I would love to get *your take* on Out-Of-Your-Head before splurging the $40 on the Redscape software solution.

Thanks!


----------



## Chastity

Zachik said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - did you try Out-Of-Your-Head?
> Apparently, @Chastity was not impressed. I would love to get *your take* on Out-Of-Your-Head before splurging the $40 on the Redscape software solution.
> 
> Thanks!


IIRC there's a demo of it you can try.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2021)

Zachik said:


> @Mad Lust Envy - did you try Out-Of-Your-Head?
> Apparently, @Chastity was not impressed. I would love to get *your take* on Out-Of-Your-Head before splurging the $40 on the Redscape software solution.
> 
> Thanks!


I did have OOYH years ago and did a review/impressions here, but I forgot to put it on the first page. It's in this thread SOMEWHERE. Or somewhere else on Headfi. I can't find it, and I'm getting frustrated that it's seemingly lost.

Darin Fong did give me the software, but its tied to my dead laptop. :/

I liked it well enough and there's a buuuuunch of presets that work well. It's just a bit pricey and considering the competition nowadays, I don't see a lot of gamers being too interested here. It's also a little more complicated in setting up compared to stuff like Redscape and Waves.

Maybe I'll consider re-doing testing and having a proper review for it, since I don't think I was happy with what I wrote back then.


That being said,  for my money, Redscape is the one to get for various reasons. Simplicity, feature set, and performance.


----------



## kumar402

I wish they had Mac version as well.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I did have OOYH years ago and did a review/impressions here, but I forgot to put it on the first page. It's in this thread SOMEWHERE. Or somewhere else on Headfi. I can't find it, and I'm getting frustrated that it's seemingly lost.
> 
> Darin Fong did give me the software, but its tied to my dead laptop. :/
> 
> ...


Got it.  Thanks again!!!


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> 67% Surround is the Recommended default setting from Creative for Gaming.  Ultimately you decide what setting is best.  Of my preferences, currently Waves NX is mine, as I seem to finally tuned it for my hardware and my psychoacoustics. Like I mentioned, I had a CMSS-3D moment with Waves NX.  My second runner up is DTS:X, because of the better cue info, once I was able to disable the EQ it was applying.  (I didn't like it before with any of the profiles, even Generic ones)



How did you manage to disable the EQ on DTS:X?  I found it to be accurate, but I hated how it changed the sound signature.  I couldn't find any settings for that


----------



## illram (Jan 28, 2021)

OOYH, on the gamer preset, was really really good for rear cues. Like "wow moment" good. I'd try the free demo if I were you. Just try the gamer preset, it's the cheapest one and also the lowest latency and it's not really worth using the program otherwise unless you pay Darin to do a personalized preset. (His preset uses the Realiser A8.)

The main problem with it, unless Darin has updated the software, is it feels dated AF. It's like I am using a Windows 95 program or something. A small complaint relative to the quality of the rear cues though.

I agree with MLE re: room size, I cannot really do Atmos for that reason. Rear cues sound like they are coming from the nape of the neck which is lame.

I'm honestly surprised Super X-Fi does not get more play on this thread. It is really the best consumer level virtual surround product I have heard, and I have heard almost everything mentioned in this thread. My X7, G6, Steelseries GameDAC, Mixamp... all are sitting in a box on a shelf in my garage (or the digital equivalent for all the software alternatives) while my little Creative Super X-Fi dongle just kills it in every PC game I throw at it. 

Everyone's ears are different and all, but I really encourage people to try it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2021)

illram said:


> I agree with MLE re: room size, I cannot really do Atmos for that reason. Rear cues sound like they are coming from the nape of the neck which is lame.



This, so much.





> I'm honestly surprised Super X-Fi does not get more play on this thread. It is really the best consumer level virtual surround product I have heard, and I have heard almost everything mentioned in this thread. Everyone's ears are different and all, but I really encourage people to try it.



Yeah, I think SXFI may be the best too, but I was only limited to the Creative Air headset. And I think only the SXFI small dac/amp has it?

I could ask Creative for it for review. I haven't heard from the rep in a long time. I'll send out an email.

Hmm, I forgot about the X3. Doesn't seem as versatile as the G6, but it does have SXFI. Maybe I'll ask for this one.


----------



## ehjie

https://www.redscapeaudio.com/

I like the concept, properly explained, backed up by your excellent review @Mad Lust Envy.
I might be getting just the Software. Not wireless is a bummer, not a deal breaker for me.
I'm a "retired" gamer (Counterstrike), spatial surround cues are an absolute necessity, but i believe i'll have loads of fun with my music on these... 

(ctto - the redscape site)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Mind you, that image showcases the headtracker. 

And I'm confused, you say it's not a deal breaker, but you're only getting the software?


----------



## ehjie

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Mind you, that image showcases the headtracker.
> 
> And I'm confused, you say it's not a deal breaker, but you're only getting the software?



oh, got it...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2021)

I was just confused on whether you yourself were getting the software alone.


----------



## ehjie

It's all good now,
what i'll 1st play when i get my hands on these. By default, the presentation's already in surround. i bet this'll epic...


----------



## Fegefeuer

Such an awesome movie, I really wanna know when they'll finish the trilogy.


----------



## stavros.m

I have no luck on headphones, DT990's broke, ordered hd 560s came in defective intermittent audio, ordered Audeze Mobius, was suppose to be in on Tuesday nothing came, reached out to supplier and today told me it will be mid to end of  February. I cannot go that long lol. Any other recommendations for headphones for single player immersive gaming. I will also probably try out the Redscape app also. Thanks for all the help


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> How did you manage to disable the EQ on DTS:X?  I found it to be accurate, but I hated how it changed the sound signature.  I couldn't find any settings for that


----------



## ronfifer

stavros.m said:


> I have no luck on headphones, DT990's broke, ordered hd 560s came in defective intermittent audio, ordered Audeze Mobius, was suppose to be in on Tuesday nothing came, reached out to supplier and today told me it will be mid to end of  February. I cannot go that long lol. Any other recommendations for headphones for single player immersive gaming. I will also probably try out the Redscape app also. Thanks for all the help



This is my shortlist of best closed-back headphones for single player gaming:

Sony Z1RFostex TH-900Meze 99 ClassicsSennheiser HD630VBArgon MK3


----------



## stavros.m

ronfifer said:


> This is my shortlist of best closed-back headphones for single player gaming:
> 
> Sony Z1RFostex TH-900Meze 99 ClassicsSennheiser HD630VBArgon MK3




thank you very much for the list i will check them out to see what's available near by just curious any recommendation on open back


----------



## ronfifer

stavros.m said:


> thank you very much for the list i will check them out to see what's available near by just curious any recommendation on open back



My Open-Back shortlist for single player gaming:


DT880 Pro 250ohm (semi-open)DT990 Pro 250ohmAKG K712Sennheiser HD 700 (used, instead of new)Argon MK3 (semi-open)Sennheiser G4ME ONEMonolith 570 (my current open-back can for open-world games, i apply a little bass boost)


----------



## stavros.m

ronfifer said:


> My Open-Back shortlist for single player gaming:
> 
> 
> DT880 Pro 250ohm (semi-open)DT990 Pro 250ohmAKG K712Sennheiser HD 700 (used, instead of new)Argon MK3 (semi-open)Sennheiser G4ME ONEMonolith 570 (my current open-back can for open-world games, i apply a little bass boost)




thank you will look into all that. I just noticed i got a daily deal on amazon canada for the he 4xx would you or anyone have any opinion on them


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 28, 2021)

stay away from 4xx for any kind of single player gaming.
*soundstage* (after proper amping): Very good but not excellent, k702, M507, AD900X have wider stages
*Bass body and texture:* trash, you can attain more immersion, say in horror games, with similarly priced cans.
*Imaging:* very good but not K702 level
*Details:* very good

So if it's on sale it might qualify as a B-class competitive gaming can, not single player.


----------



## stavros.m (Jan 28, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> stay away from 4xx for any kind of single player gaming.
> *soundstage* (after proper amping): Very good but not excellent, k702, M507, AD900X have wider stages
> *Bass body and texture:* trash, you can attain more immersion, say in horror games, with similarly priced cans.
> *Imaging:* very good but not K702 level
> ...



thank you again for all your help two more headphone i was looking at and are in stock the HIFIMAN Deva or HIFIMAN SUNDARA . More towards the Deva What are you opinions on them


----------



## ronfifer

stavros.m said:


> thank you again for all your help two more headphone i was looking at and are in stock the HIFIMAN Deva or HIFIMAN SUNDARA . What are you opinions on them


sorry never tried them.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


>



That was it? I would have never figured that out in a million years, lol.

By the way, for WavesNX, can you use it without a camera and the head tracker? How does the tracker even work though? If I have my monitor in front of me, I can't imagine I'm going to look away from it just to determine the direction of a sound.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've only used the Waves NX software alone without tracker or camera. It's like any other virtual surround in that regard.


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> That was it? I would have never figured that out in a million years, lol.
> 
> By the way, for WavesNX, can you use it without a camera and the head tracker? How does the tracker even work though? If I have my monitor in front of me, I can't imagine I'm going to look away from it just to determine the direction of a sound.


The tracker isn't a necessity, since you won't be moving your head much, tho for $59 it's not too bad.  $99 is too much for what it does.


----------



## Chastity

I updated my review with information on Movie watching, and why you should or shouldn't use which HRTF solutions.


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> I updated my review with information on Movie watching, and why you should or shouldn't use which HRTF solutions.





Chastity said:


> *Movie Watching*
> 
> Most movies and TV programs use encoded audio, either Dolby or DTS, in some flavor. The 2 Windows Sonic plugins Dolby Access and DTS:X can decode those streams and do the HRTF encoding, as intended by the engineers. This can go beyond simple 7.1 as DTS:X and Atmos have speaker configs that have above and below satellites, essentially providing a full 360 degree experience. This is why it's important to set up your player to bitstream these, or you will lose these above/below cues.
> 
> ...



And I was all ready to buy Redscape........   

@Chastity - any chance you could try Redscape specifically for TV / Movie watching and compare to the 2 Windows Sonic plugins Dolby Access and DTS:X?


----------



## duranxv

Now that the EQ is turned off on DTS;X, I have to say that I like it again!  I actually always liked it for FPS games because the rear cues are better, but had to stop using it because of how it affected the sound.  Dolby drove me nuts because of the small sound space - I agree with everyone here.

Question for the SBX crowd - do you set your sound settings to 5.1 surround or 7.1 for gaming?

Redscape sounds very interesting, especially with the ability to adjust room size.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 30, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Now that the EQ is turned off on DTS;X, I have to say that I like it again!  I actually always liked it for FPS games because the rear cues are better, but had to stop using it because of how it affected the sound.  Dolby drove me nuts because of the small sound space - I agree with everyone here.
> 
> Question for the SBX crowd - do you set your sound settings to 5.1 surround or 7.1 for gaming?
> 
> Redscape sounds very interesting, especially with the ability to adjust room size.


1) People who I know who use SBX set it to 7.1 for one simple reason:  actual rear channel info.  5.1 have side channels, so it's more of a U-shape sound field.  My problem with SBX is that the rear cues aren't well defined, and are too similar to side channel cues.

2) Glad you are enjoying DTS:X more with better cue information.  I guess VSS devs are also learning as we move on and feedback each other.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> 1) People who I know who use SBX set it to 7.1 for one simple reason:  actual rear channel info.  5.1 have side channels, so it's more of a U-shape sound field.  My problem with SBX is that the rear cues aren't well defined, and are too similar to side channel cues.
> 
> 2) Glad you are enjoying DTS:X more with better cue information.  I guess VSS devs are also learning as we move on and feedback each other.



1) Yeah, that's what I figured too. Some were mentioning 5.1, and I guess they were focusing more on music than games

2) It's definitely much improved now that the EQ is gone.  I wonder how it compares to Redscape


----------



## Zerufos

I'm curious. If we take VSS out of the equation. Which dac/amp would be best for console? That is, a dac/amp that also has a mic input and chat/game control.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Sound Blaster Command application just got updated.

Under the version history it says: "Add USB Audio Connectivity on G6".

What is that? Didn't we have that already, it works via USB?
Or is it for consoles?


----------



## Chastity

AppleheadMay said:


> Sound Blaster Command application just got updated.
> 
> Under the version history it says: "Add USB Audio Connectivity on G6".
> 
> ...


I think maybe they updated the USB driver or support.  The software only works on PC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 1, 2021)

Probably just an additional indicator, and nothing that technically changed?

Is it something you can turn off? If so, then that's new, and maybe there if you just want to charge through usb instead of send data....

I was JUST messing with the G6 today to see if it'd be noisy when sending to the Modius through optical (it isn't). I should've checked the software. I also need to check if it's noisy as an analog out to the Jot 2.

I did end up getting a powered usb hub, which did help reduce noise from my usb ports.

I did find out that my TV's optical out to the Mixamp 5.8 and then the Mixamp's passthrough is really not great. I'll have to check if it's the tv or the optical passthrough of the Mixamp that's the issue. The G6 optical out is perfect.


----------



## shortstack31489

Has anyone tried the new 400i or 4xx on ps5 or XSX controllers? Adequate volume?


----------



## TwistedMastery (Feb 2, 2021)

Hello guys! I'm basically a complete noob when it comes to headphones and I would like some advice on the best competitive headphones for 2021? Any suggestions? is the ad700x still the best?


----------



## PS5head

@Mad Lust Envy the Redscape review was a great read and I appreciate all the great advice on the forum as well.

I am wondering about 3D Tempest vs SBX and what you have noticed as far as a comparison? I’m very new to VSS and it’s tough for me to describe, but I feel like the 3D tempest doesn’t have the depth or warmth of sbx (or maybe fullness/quality of the sound?). The positional accuracy seems to be great , but 3D tempest almost sounds “tinny” for lack of a better word. 3D tempest also seems to be more subjective and game specific. To my ears, shadow of the tomb raider sounds great, Cold War isn’t bad, but war zone really doesn’t sound all that good with tempest.

Any way, my setup is a G6 in direct mode for tempest, or used with an audio extractor for SBX, and the HD6XX. I’m wondering what you think is the best in terms of overall quality paired with positional accuracy?

Thanks for all you do and I hope this finds you well!


----------



## bigbeard (Feb 2, 2021)

If a game does not support dolby atmos for headphone and the game is set to surround sound, will atmos for headphone result in VSS (such as what SBX does?).

Any opinions on SBX vs Atmos for headphone?

What is the consensus for some of the top consumer virtualization software?


----------



## duranxv

bigbeard said:


> If a game does not support dolby atmos for headphone and the game is set to surround sound, will atmos for headphone result in VSS (such as what SBX does?).
> 
> Any opinions on SBX vs Atmos for headphone?
> 
> What is the consensus for some of the top consumer virtualization software?



Atmos is great for movies and music, and any games that are specifically designed for Atmos. Otherwise, I find SBX to be better. However, as of late, I've actually been liking DTS:X better than SBX - at least for FPS games.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PS5head said:


> @Mad Lust Envy the Redscape review was a great read and I appreciate all the great advice on the forum as well.
> 
> I am wondering about 3D Tempest vs SBX and what you have noticed as far as a comparison? I’m very new to VSS and it’s tough for me to describe, but I feel like the 3D tempest doesn’t have the depth or warmth of sbx (or maybe fullness/quality of the sound?). The positional accuracy seems to be great , but 3D tempest almost sounds “tinny” for lack of a better word. 3D tempest also seems to be more subjective and game specific. To my ears, shadow of the tomb raider sounds great, Cold War isn’t bad, but war zone really doesn’t sound all that good with tempest.
> 
> ...


I'm in agreement with you there. 3D Tempest is hit or miss, and can just sound plainly bad with some games. I definitely would use SBX on the G6 instead since you have the option. Tempest is good for those without a vss device.


----------



## PS5head

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm in agreement with you there. 3D Tempest is hit or miss, and can just sound plainly bad with some games. I definitely would use SBX on the G6 instead since you have the option. Tempest is good for those without a vss device.


Thanks for the quick response! I will go back to using SBX for the moment and see how tempest improves over time.


----------



## ronfifer (Feb 3, 2021)

TwistedMastery said:


> Hello guys! I'm basically a complete noob when it comes to headphones and I would like some advice on the best competitive headphones for 2021? Any suggestions? is the ad700x still the best?



The 2 I tried and liked the most:

AKG k702
Monolith M570
(activate VSS in windows: Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTX:X, or Windows Sonic)

The 2 I tried and did not like:

AD900x: Great soundstage and imaging but the sound quality is poor, air is grainy, and separation of sounds is almost non-existent.
HE4XX: Good but not great soundstage, very good imaging, very good detail retrieval, requires high amplification through an external amp.


----------



## Zerufos

Hey so I went ahead and bit the bullet, and bought a G6 for my PS4. Are there any optimal settings I should be aware about? I updated the device and drivers on Windows, and applied a Flat EQ because it initially sounded bass boosted.


----------



## stavros.m (Feb 3, 2021)

I just got my Hifiman Deva headphones while its only for gaming and an occasional movie. They sound really good but its almost sounds like there is a crackling sound not all the time. Happens a few times during youtube and on netflix, but haven't experience it in a game. Even if i change the volume the crackling still happens.

Also it happens very intermittent i could watch the same youtube video over and sometime it doesn't happen even if i leave the volume the same level both times

Could this be caused because i am using the Bluemini as an amp/dac


----------



## Gun21

stavros.m said:


> I just got my Hifiman Deva headphones while its only for gaming and an occasional movie. They sound really good but its almost sounds like there is a crackling sound not all the time. Happens a few times during youtube and on netflix, but haven't experience it in a game. Even if i change the volume the crackling still happens.
> 
> Also it happens very intermittent i could watch the same youtube video over and sometime it doesn't happen even if i leave the volume the same level both times
> 
> Could this be caused because i am using the Bluemini as an amp/dac



Try other headphones or speakers to try and replicate it.

No crap, but I kind of went through exactly what you're describing and couldn't work it out. Tried everything. Turns out I had an ear infection, and for some strange and weird reason an ear infection can sound like electronic static/or fuzz through headphones. Yep, bizarre.


----------



## duranxv

Zerufos said:


> Hey so I went ahead and bit the bullet, and bought a G6 for my PS4. Are there any optimal settings I should be aware about? I updated the device and drivers on Windows, and applied a Flat EQ because it initially sounded bass boosted.



Set the "Surround" setting to anywhere from 50 to 67. I personally prefer 50, but that's just me. Other than that, EQ if you feel you need to until you reach the sound signature you like.


----------



## Zerufos (Feb 3, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Set the "Surround" setting to anywhere from 50 to 67. I personally prefer 50, but that's just me. Other than that, EQ if you feel you need to until you reach the sound signature you like.



This is pretty helpful actually.

As far as I can tell, direct mode isn’t a thing on console and scout mode doesn’t really interest me. High gain is nice for my T60RP Argons but I don’t really game with them. Low gain powers my HD600 easily enough.

So I should have flat eq > 67 surround > SBX and leave it be.

I’m actually interested in using the G6 to output to another amp and seeing if that improves the sound.


----------



## Chastity

Zerufos said:


> This is pretty helpful actually.
> 
> As far as I can tell, direct mode isn’t a thing on console and scout mode doesn’t really interest me. High gain is nice for my T60RP Argons but I don’t really game with them. Low gain powers my HD600 easily enough.
> 
> ...


Amp won't fix the narrow soundstage and imaging of the HD-600.


----------



## Zerufos

Chastity said:


> Amp won't fix the narrow soundstage and imaging of the HD-600.



I just used the HD600 for testing the amp quality of the G6. I actually game with the PC38X for multiplayer games.

But it’s not really the soundstage that bugs me about the G6; it’s the amp quality for single player games. It doesn’t have a “full” sound


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2021)

Well, the G6 isn't a powerful amp, certainly not one to make HD600 shine. Just because it plays loud doesn't mean the headroom is there. The HD600 is what, 300ohm? I think you'd do better with a desktop amp attached to the G6 for it. Though I still wouldn't expect miracles.

The HD600 isn't a "full" sounding headphone to begin with.


----------



## motorwayne

I use the HD660S atm for gaming open world and love it, though I have the PC38x on the water as we speak and I'm frothing at the bit to see how they go, so exciting.


----------



## Zerufos (Feb 4, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, the G6 isn't a powerful amp, certainly not one to make HD600 shine. Just because it plays loud doesn't mean the headroom is there. The HD600 is what, 300ohm? I think you'd do better with a desktop amp attached to the G6 for it. Though I still see expect miracles.
> 
> The HD600 isn't a "full" sounding headphone to begin with.



As an “amp” the G6 does not sound great compared to the MixAmp 2019

Ok so this deserves more context.

Last night I purchased a G6 and began testing it against my Mixamp 2019 and Modius/Asgard 3 DAC/Amp combo

All 3 were connected to my PS4 through TOSlink. The headphones I used were the HD600, PC38X, T60RP Argons, Sundara, and AKG K702.

I played Overwatch in a workshop mode with plenty of characters and sound queues and even ran Resident Evil for a bit.
Switching back and forth it was pretty clear that amp performance went to the Asgard 3, then MixAmp 2019, and lastly the G6. Which surprised me because of the rave reviews found all over the internet for the G6 and less-than-stellar reviews for the MixAmp. I expected the G6 to beat it handily.

But that was yesterday, and this testing was done with a flat eq curve and NO Dolby 5.1.

Today on the other hand I did more testing but with VSS enabled. Now, it was pretty clear that the G6’s SBX was noticeably better than the MixAmp’s Dolby Headphone. I’ve been using it for the better part of the day and sound queues for flanking enemies are much more distinct, making it easier to tell if they’re an immediate threat or not.

In conclusion, the G6 is worthwhile only while using SBX. When compared to the MixAmp without VSS, it didn’t hold its own. The MixAmp 2019 sounded fuller (not nearly as full as the Asgard 3). But enough that when connected to the MixAmp, my headphones sounded like themselves. While when connected to the G6 they sounded more like Hasbro products.

What I’m getting at is I feel it’s dishonest to say the G6 is the best gaming dac/amp when this is only true when SBX is enabled.

I only say this because the G6 has gotten rave reviews not only in this forum, but also from prominent YouTube reviewers, and in another forum that I won’t mention here.

If you play single player games, are a casual player, or like to listen to music/Spotify while gaming, putting “pure competitive” sound to the side, there are much better options like the MixAmp or a dedicated DAC/Amp combo.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 4, 2021)

You just may prefer the warmer sound of the Asgard 3 (which is known to be full/warm sounding) and Mixamp. I wouldn't say the G6 is lean. Perhaps in comparison to a warm sounding amp, but I wouldn't say it steers towards one side or another.

The main value of the G6 here is the ability to send SBX to another dac via optical, or to  another amp via analog. Neither things the Mixamp can do. This is why the G6 is highly regarded. That, and it's one of the only ones to work on the PS5.

I haven't heard the newer Mixamps, but I highly doubt they've added the ability to send their virtual surround to other dacs/amps outside of plugging to the headphone jacks.

The G6's versatility makes it the best choice especially for others with better gear. I send the G6's SBX to my Modius via optical, then that to my Jotunheim 2 via XLR.

The X7 is better than the G6, but at its price, it falls above what a lot of people need, and for that price I'd just recommend the G6 with another better amp or even dac and amp anyways.

So yes, to me there is no comparison, the G6 opens up possibilities that others like the Mixamp can't do.

That being said, the new Mixamp does look interesting, and I'd love to try it one day.


----------



## Majfa

Hi. I'm looking for headphones for fps, mainly cs, sometimes i fire coda, valorant or some other shooter, but 98% of the time i spend playing csa.
 I currently have a Logitech G35 (https://www.morele.net/sluchawki-logitech-g35-981-000549-639709/) I am looking for something better than the ones I currently have. I need the headphones to be comfortable, so that I can replace the pads in the future  and of course that the sound is really ok (positioning the opponent).  I don't care about any 5.1 / 7.1
 I do not want headphones with overwhelming bass, probably the best solution will be medium and high band to hear the opponents' steps very well?
 Integrated sound card realtek alc1150 115db snr hd audio with built-in amplifier. I do not know if something is going to "extract" from this card because the headphones I have are currently on usb. If you need to buy a music card or a DAC there.
 I was thinking about:
 1.CM MH 751
 2. Fnatic Reat (I haven't found an opinion about them anywhere, maybe some of you used? The diameter of the drivers 53 mm and the band 20Hz-40kHz will it sound well?)
 3.Logitech X Pro
 4.Soundblaster x7
 5 Hyperx cloud 2 / alpha (I don't know what the differences are)
 6. Takstar pro 82
 7. ANY OTHER your suggestions?
 I will add from myself that it would be nice if it was a headset but it doesn't have to be that way because I have a microphone separately.
 Budget:  (EUR 230, $ 270)
 Thanks in advance for your answers and best regards.


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## ronfifer (Feb 4, 2021)

Majfa said:


> Hi. I'm looking for headphones for fps
> I was thinking about:
> 1.CM MH 751
> 2. Fnatic Reat (I haven't found an opinion about them anywhere, maybe some of you used? The diameter of the drivers 53 mm and the band 20Hz-40kHz will it sound well?)
> ...



Soundblaster x7 is not a headphone.

My suggestions in no particular order:

1. PC38X
2. AKG 702
3. Sennheiser Game One or 598/599
4. Monolith 570

For 2 and 4 you would need a small dac/amp stack, maximum of $200 in total for both the dac and amp, maybe less. It's a long term investment.

The list you got is not ideal. Out of those you listed only the hyperx and MH751 are good recommendations, but not great. And dont worry too much about frequency response and driver size.


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## Zerufos (Feb 4, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> 1. PC38X
> 2. AKG 702
> 3. Sennheiser Game One or 598/599
> 4. Monolith 570



I’d also like to add the DT880 (250 ohm for low power/console amps; 600 ohm for bigger amps)



Mad Lust Envy said:


> The main value of the G6 here is the ability to send SBX to another dac via optical, or to  another amp via analog. Neither things the Mixamp can do. This is why the G6 is highly regarded. That, and it's one of the only ones to work on the PS5.
> ....
> The G6's versatility makes it the best choice especially for others with better gear. I send the G6's SBX to my Modius via optical, then that to my Jotunheim 2 via XLR.



The ability to have output SBX through the optical out port has interested me since I got the G6. I don’t currently have a mini Toslink cable besides the one that came with the amp so I’m looking to grab one and try it out!


----------



## motorwayne

I have a question: Do PC38X's improve with good amping?


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## Chastity (Feb 4, 2021)

UPDATE:  I'll be posting a review for Redscape, once I can sit down and install it.


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## Zerufos

motorwayne said:


> I have a question: Do PC38X's improve with good amping?



With headphones that efficient, in this case 28 ohms, it’s just a matter if the dac/amp makes them worse. In reality, any “recommended” dac/amp will bring out their max potential.


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## duranxv

Zerufos said:


> As an “amp” the G6 does not sound great compared to the MixAmp 2019
> 
> Ok so this deserves more context.
> 
> ...



Once my new computer is set up - I will be comparing the AE-9 vs. the G6. The AE-9 is a more powerful DAC/AMP than the G6. According to Creative, the sound quality should be better. We'll see what happens!


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## Chastity (Feb 4, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Once my new computer is set up - I will be comparing the AE-9 vs. the G6. The AE-9 is a more powerful DAC/AMP than the G6. According to Creative, the sound quality should be better. We'll see what happens!


Not by a whole lot.  G6 is 86mW @ 300 ohm, and the AE-9 is 106mW @ 300 ohm.  In comparison, the Asgard 3 is 600 mW @ 300 ohm.  Also, both consumer PC commodities adhere to the evil PC standard of 1V RMS Line-Out.


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## Chastity

Redscape 

Another drop-in virtualizer, using a virtual sound device as the hook.  You use the app and Windows Audio settings to configure the various settings, including the number of channels you want for input, and bit depth / sample rate.  The device driver supports a configuration of up to 32/96, just like Waves NX.  It's a bit more polished, as it has a full Windows Audio setting interface, as opposed to Waves, which just sits there with 7.1 active all the time.

Of the settings, there are some special interests.  For starters, you can choose for 5.1 audio sources to mix to either the Side channels, or the Rears. (Default is Rear)  This can be useful with 5.1 music panning, as you may want a U instead of a full circle.  There are 3 presets:  Gaming, Movie, and Music, which are presets on the room size.  I won't go too much into the features, as MLE did a fine job in his review.  I will note that you can adjust the spacing of the fronts and adjust the volume of each channel.  Also, you can adjust the timing of the cues to match the size of your noggin, and your ear canal spacing.  Redscape uses a slider option for both, which makes it easy to adjust, tho not as precise as doing the measurements like in Waves NX, so you will have to experiment here until you find your magic setting.

Redscape's room acoustics model isn't as distorting as say Waves NX is, but their cues are just as accurate.  Of the two, I prefer Redscape for my 5.1 music playback thus far, tho I still prefer Nahimic's.  One feature that I found to be missing is the ability to have the modeler pass thru stereo sources unmodeled.  (Nahimic/Sonic Studio III has this option.)  This is great for listening to music playlists with mixed 2.0 and 5.1 tracks.  I passed on this suggestion to the author.

When gaming, I do enjoy the larger room settings with my headphones.  It's easier to pick up on distance and position, and even when things are on top of you, they sound like they're above you.  Of course, it's all adjustable for your preferences.  (I currently like using Music preset for gaming)  I am still working with the head/ear adjustments to perfect the experience.

Now, which one is better?  This would depend on your preferences on how much you can tolerate the distortions of the VSS effect, and whether you want just a gaming solution.  As I mentioned before, once you have the measurements done, Waves NX gets eerie accurate, and is a bit more pronounced than Redscape.  You may prefer this, much like preferring DTS:X over Dolby Access.  However, Waves NX isn't my choice for 5.1 music listening, and is ok for movie watching, but there are better choices, which I have already discussed elsewhere.

Redscape is a nice compromise between cues and smoothness, and has excellent imaging and distance.  Another nice feature is that Ryan can be easily contacted via email, and he's happy to answer questions, which I suppose adds value to the license cost.  Tho, Waves NX is very much a close 2nd place, and is cheaper, but not as polished or settings friendly.  The trick with Waves NX is getting those measurements, as it was a bit underwhelming with default settings.

Unfortunately there's no trial demo of Redscape, tho it does have a 15-day refund policy.


----------



## PurpleAngel

motorwayne said:


> I have a question: Do PC38X's improve with good amping?


The Sennheiser PC38X are only 28-Ohms, so really do not need much voltage to drive them.
A $100 JDS Atom amp or Schiit Magni 3 amp would be more then enough to drive them well.


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## motorwayne

PurpleAngel said:


> The Sennheiser PC38X are only 28-Ohms, so really do not need much voltage to drive them.
> A $100 JDS Atom amp or Schiit Magni 3 amp would be more then enough to drive them well.



Mint, I'm using an O2 as you suggested exiting the Tit HD so that should keep it clean and strong enough.


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## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Not by a whole lot.  G6 is 86mW @ 300 ohm, and the AE-9 is 106mW @ 300 ohm.  In comparison, the Asgard 3 is 600 mW @ 300 ohm.  Also, both consumer PC commodities adhere to the evil PC standard of 1V RMS Line-Out.



Isn't 600 mW @300 ohm a bit overkill for anything other than the highest of impedance HP's? lol


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## Majfa

ronfifer said:


> Soundblaster x7 is not a headphone.
> 
> My suggestions in no particular order:
> 
> ...


I have not ordered headphones yet, but I thought so to order a few pieces and choose the "best" ones that you would advise me from this list, a gaming strike, I do not need bass to be unknown, but to make it, the most important is positioning and steps to make idealnis  he heard (I don't know which tones are responsible for it )

 #Sennheiser

 game zero / one, dc38x / 38x - any other Sennets?

 #Beyerdynamic

 Dt990, dt770, custom game, tygr 300r (I can collect over budget, but is it worth it, unless a set without a microphone)

 #Philips (somehow this company does not convince me, I used to have some market ones and I gave the service 2x some factory defect, but I can take a risk )

 Sph9500 / 9600, Fidelio x2 / x2hr

 # Audio-Technica

 ATH-PDG1A, Ad500x, Ad900x, any other Audio-Technica worth attention?

 #Akg

 K240 studio, k550, k702, k712 pro (apparently akg headphones are harder to "power up" nir I know if the Dac that I suggest below is good enough)

 #other brands

 CM Mh751, Sonic v2, Rockmaster OE Gaming, SoundMagic HP151, Koss GMR 545 iso / air, Audeze-Mobius I have no idea what model,

 I would like to buy for the headphones I replaced with the Fx Audio Dac x3, but I don't know if it will be a good choice and sufficient.

 I was also wondering about the open ones, would I not wake my daughter and wife 2 rooms away. Do they not let the sound through?


----------



## revolutionz

Looking for some input on a modmic uni and gaming audio in general...starting to game on PC more again vs consoles, so naturally time to look at my audio setup. At my desk I currently have a Burson Conductor 3R that I use for music, it is my understanding that with Windows Sonic or DTS for Headphones I shouldn't need any new DAC/AMP hardware, just the software implementation?

My current headphones are B&W P7 and Focal Elegia. P7's are a bit more V shaped and fun for games, but the Elegia have it beat in sound stage. Thinking about something like a modmic uni, but concerned the double side tape they use may ruin the headphones when I take it off down the road. Anyone have any input on this?

I've also been exploring some slightly cheaper setups to use as a dedicated rig too, such as the Beyer DT 770 Pro/modmic, the Beyer MMX 300, EPOS|Sennheiser Game Zero, Audeze Penrose etc. Any recommendations there? Prefer to stay closed vs open for the location of my desk. Wired vs Wireless I don't really have a preference.

I tried some Logitech G Pro X wired, and after listening to good headphones for so long they just didn't do it for me.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone noob question here does the amp/dac change the sound of the headphones. If so how do I know which one is best suited for which headphones. I was thinking of getting the ifi-zen-signature set for my Deva's and curious if its a good combo


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## Chastity

revolutionz said:


> Thinking about something like a modmic uni, but concerned the double side tape they use may ruin the headphones when I take it off down the road. Anyone have any input on this?


I own a Modmic Uni.  The adhesive is designed to come off and not leave a residue, so no worries about damaging your headphones.  Tho I recently upgraded to a desk mic, as I was looking for better quality.  Tho for a boom mic, it's fine.


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## Zerufos (Feb 5, 2021)

So the Creative Sound Blaster G6 paired with a Modius/Asgard3 is absolutely phenomenal.

I purchased 2 mini TOSlink cables today and started another round of testing. First, I had to change some settings in Sound Blaster Command, specifically enabling Headphone Virtualization 5.1 onto the "Speaker Output" and raising the Optical In volume to about 85%. These two changes brought jaw-dropping, virtualized sound to my PC38X. MadLustEnvy was absolutely correct to give a good word in its ability to output SBX to a separate DAC/Amp.

A small thing to note: At this point there is a lot of processing being done. PS4 to G6, then SBX virtualization, and finally output to Modius. This whole process takes time and allows a slight delay to be barely noticeable. After playing a few rounds of Overwatch I don't believe there's anything to be worried about. I feel this is becasue a time delay issue would be much more important in the visual realm as that would affect hand-eye coordination. Although with sound, a huge bump in quality would allow you to hear exactly what's happening; ultimately giving you more time to process an effective gameplan.

I'm sold. If you're willing to spend the money on another DAC/amp or already have one, the G6 proves itself as a fantastic add-on to that setup.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 6, 2021)

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone noob question here does the amp/dac change the sound of the headphones. If so how do I know which one is best suited for which headphones. I was thinking of getting the ifi-zen-signature set for my Deva's and curious if its a good combo


No. Amp and dacs are there to make sure the headphones sound their best at all times. The cleanest signal, the cleanest power. If you want them to change the sound, use an equalizer, bass boost, etc. It is NOT an amp/dacs job to change the sound. Some headphones may sound weaker and thinner with less fullness, soundstaging, bass, etc if not driven to optimal levels.

Tube amps may impart some subtle sound changes because of tube distortion. Otherwise, no don't expect sound changes.

There may and likely will be subtle changes with amp/dacs, but that takes some keener ears. Like my Jotunheim 2 sounds less detailed and razor focused through its regular Headphone out, but more rounded and softer which can be good. Compared to the balanced out.

These are minute, subtle changes. Nothing like a drastic change even a slight EQ can do.

It's weird because my PortaPro off the balanced connection sounds like a higher end version of what I've been used to for so long.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Redscape
> 
> Another drop-in virtualizer, using a virtual sound device as the hook.  You use the app and Windows Audio settings to configure the various settings, including the number of channels you want for input, and bit depth / sample rate.  The device driver supports a configuration of up to 32/96, just like Waves NX.  It's a bit more polished, as it has a full Windows Audio setting interface, as opposed to Waves, which just sits there with 7.1 active all the time.
> 
> ...



I'm seriously thinking of trying Redscape. Sounds very interesting, especially because you can tweak the "spacing." One of my main pet peeves with a lot of VSS software is that they're not very good at verticality. No matter if its DTS, Dolby or SBX, they're just not that accurate when it comes to hearing things above or below you.

So you're saying for gaming purposes, it's worth it? Also, how does it affect the sound vs the other options? Thanks!


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> I'm seriously thinking of trying Redscape. Sounds very interesting, especially because you can tweak the "spacing." One of my main pet peeves with a lot of VSS software is that they're not very good at verticality. No matter if its DTS, Dolby or SBX, they're just not that accurate when it comes to hearing things above or below you.
> 
> So you're saying for gaming purposes, it's worth it? Also, how does it affect the sound vs the other options? Thanks!


Read my review for comparisons.  I've moved the review so I can have everything in one place and update it, and not clutter up MLE's fine work with replies about my stuff, and get lost in his thread.

Chastity's Review of VSS Solutions

For gaming, I like the Redscape solution.  It's very customizable, and it's not a harsh room model, like Out Of Your Head.  I find it immersive, and directionality / distance are very spot on.  The model has a bit of a rectangular feel, but still maintains a natural ambience, so it doesn't feel out of place with outdoor scenes.  When objects are occupying your same space, there's a sense of it being atop of you.

Mind you, it's limited to 7.1 Surround, so there will not be much in vertical cues, unless the game embeds them in it's output.  This is where games supporting Atmos or DTS:X output will have the advantage, as they will have a full 360 degree, 3-axis cues.


----------



## ronfifer

Well i tried waves nx for gaming for 15 days, while the sound of directional cues is more refined and accentuated (compared to dolby atmos for headphones), it is horrible with rear cues as it makes them sound strictly left or right instead. And yes i did configure the head measurements.

I reverted back to dolby atmos for headphones while playing bf1 and bf5. Might try redscape when it goes on sale.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Read my review for comparisons.  I've moved the review so I can have everything in one place and update it, and not clutter up MLE's fine work with replies about my stuff, and get lost in his thread.
> 
> Chastity's Review of VSS Solutions
> 
> ...



Gotcha. Appreciate the insight! For games that support Atmos, do you typically use the Movie setting or Game setting?


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Gotcha. Appreciate the insight! For games that support Atmos, do you typically use the Movie setting or Game setting?


Try both.  If the mids and center channel is too up front, then use Game Mode.  It'll be obvious which you should be using.


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
Tell me please, will be creative g6 good for passive speakers? I want to use G6 like amp for passive speakers. Is it okay? Or G6 only for headphones?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> Tell me please, will be creative G6 good for passive speakers? I want to use G6 like amp for passive speakers. Is it okay? Or G6 only for headphones?


Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6's headphone amplifier should be able to drive small (un-powered) speakers.
What is the make and model of the speakers your planning on getting?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So after mulling back and forth on what to get, I ended up ordering a pair of Emu-Teaks. Once again looking for the best replacement to the post-2012 Denon D7000 sound. We'll see how that goes. Though I have no clue on when the pair arrives, if it even ships here, lol.

You see an image like this, and I'm like, oh yeeeeeah Emu is owned by Creative...


----------



## Rozzko (Feb 9, 2021)

PurpleAngel said:


> Creative Labs Sound BlasterX G6's headphone amplifier should be able to drive small (un-powered) speakers.
> What is the make and model of the speakers your planning on getting?


I don’t have speakers , just want to buy. But if G6 can power passive(unpowered) speakers I will buy it. Because powered speakers not so much on market

but I think that G6 can’t power speakers. Maybe someone can try it?


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Chastity said:


> Mind you, it's limited to 7.1 Surround, so there will not be much in vertical cues, unless the game embeds them in it's output.  This is where games supporting Atmos or DTS:X output will have the advantage, as they will have a full 360 degree, 3-axis cues.



Thank you for clearing this up for me, was always wondering about this. So in case a game supports Atmos (which I feel is generally viewed more favorably than DTS:X), do I need any additonal Dolby software for it to work?


----------



## Ted23 (Feb 10, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> I don’t have speakers , just want to buy. But if G6 can power passive(unpowered) speakers I will buy it. Because powered speakers not so much on market
> 
> but I think that G6 can’t power speakers. Maybe someone can try it?



It can't power speakers Creative have a headphone and speaker amp available you can see it in MLEs picture on the previous page I believe its X7 and it used to retail at around $300.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah I certainly don't believe it can power speakers. Powered speakers connected to it, sure, but passive speakers, hell no.

Definitely look into the Creative X7 Limited Edition (the white one), which has power for passive bookshelf speakers at least.


----------



## Chastity

Rhadamanthys said:


> Thank you for clearing this up for me, was always wondering about this. So in case a game supports Atmos (which I feel is generally viewed more favorably than DTS:X), do I need any additonal Dolby software for it to work?



The Dolby Access plug-in will do all your Dolby decoding and HRTF needs.

@Rozzko I would not use the G6 for passives, it's not designed for that.  It can provide a Line-Out/SPDIF-Out for an amp.  The X7 has 2 flavors, one does 50W / ch and the other 100W / ch with the price boost accordingly.  You can also consider something like this:

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/a-100


----------



## halcyon

Rhadamanthys said:


> Thank you for clearing this up for me, was always wondering about this. So in case a game supports Atmos (which I feel is generally viewed more favorably than DTS:X), do I need any additonal Dolby software for it to work?


 No you don't. When game has built in Dolby Atmos or DTS:X it then downmixes the game multidirectional sound to stereo headphones using the said algorithm. If you tack additional Dolby Atmos or DTS:X after that (hardware or software) you will just get worse sound (less accurate sound positional cues).


----------



## Rozzko

Thanks.

few questions:
1) does anyone playing with IEMS? Interesting is CAMPFIRE ANDROMEDA. How they good for gaming? 
2) what headphones (closed) better (under 500$) than MEZE 99 classic? Only closed


----------



## Chastity

halcyon said:


> No you don't. When game has built in Dolby Atmos or DTS:X it then downmixes the game multidirectional sound to stereo headphones using the said algorithm. If you tack additional Dolby Atmos or DTS:X after that (hardware or software) you will just get worse sound (less accurate sound positional cues).


If the game is Windows Sonic aware, and has Atmos or DTS:X streaming, it will send encoded streams to the WIn10 app, which can then either be mixed to HRTF 2.0 or output via HDMI to your external decoder, supporting 7.1.4 channels.


----------



## ronfifer

halcyon said:


> No you don't. When game has built in Dolby Atmos or DTS:X it then downmixes the game multidirectional sound to stereo headphones using the said algorithm. If you tack additional Dolby Atmos or DTS:X after that (hardware or software) you will just get worse sound (less accurate sound positional cues).



Does this apply to shadow of tomb raider? Set in-game settings to spatial sound and windows settings to stereo (all plugins OFF?)


----------



## Asyrin25

What's the setup for using a G6 just as a DSP and why would you do it?

For example, I have a Schiit Hel and the GS6. What are the advantages of using the Hel with the G6 and how exactly would you hook it up?

Thanks!


----------



## Ted23

Asyrin25 said:


> What's the setup for using a G6 just as a DSP and why would you do it?
> 
> For example, I have a Schiit Hel and the GS6. What are the advantages of using the Hel with the G6 and how exactly would you hook it up?
> 
> Thanks!



You'd use the G6's optical out and send the signal out to the Hel through an optical cable. The advantage would be that the Hel is a stronger amp if your headphones aren't powered well by the G6 but only a few will really have this issue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Hel doesn't have an optical input. You'd have to send through the G6 analog out, meaning you'll be using the G6's DAC, and Hel's amp.


----------



## deadchip12 (Feb 13, 2021)

Chastity said:


> If the game is Windows Sonic aware, and has Atmos or DTS:X streaming, it will send encoded streams to the WIn10 app, which can then either be mixed to HRTF 2.0 or output via HDMI to your external decoder, supporting 7.1.4 channels.


It's almost a crime that dolby access app doesn't decode dolby atmos for headphone for movies. I may have to consider buying an avr and speakers, but headphones are just so much less of a hassle.


----------



## Chastity

deadchip12 said:


> It's almost a crime that dolby access app doesn't decode dolby atmos for headphone for movies. I may have to consider buying an avr and speakers, but headphones are just so much less of a hassle.


I use MPC-BE + MadVR, which uses LAV filters.  Config your LAV filters to bitstream your encoded audio (most are disabled by default)  This will give Dolby Access an Atmos stream to decode.


----------



## deadchip12 (Feb 14, 2021)

Chastity said:


> I use MPC-BE + MadVR, which uses LAV filters.  Config your LAV filters to bitstream your encoded audio (most are disabled by default)  This will give Dolby Access an Atmos stream to decode.


I'm confused. This method will only send the atmos stream to home theater systems, not headphones. I'm talking about getting dolby atmos stream on headphones.
So far the Smyth Realizer is the only device on the planet able to do that.


----------



## Chastity (Feb 14, 2021)

I noticed that Redscape's passthru mode still modifies the output.  Waves NX will passthru just fine.  I'll email the dev and see what is up.  @Mad Lust Envy can you test on your end?

EDIT: seems to be some Volume Leveling is still being done.  Hmm, seems to be happening with Waves NX too.  Confused.  Maybe it's a Windows thing.


----------



## Asyrin25

Hey MLE,

I see on your sig that you have some emu teaks coming. Have you tried them? Are they essentially just denon d7000?


----------



## AppleheadMay

Asyrin25 said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> I see on your sig that you have some emu teaks coming. Have you tried them? Are they essentially just denon d7000?



I think the continuation of the D2000/5000/7000 line was the TH-900. Then a lower priced model, the TH-600 was made and the EMU's came from that line.
All from memory way back, someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 14, 2021)

Asyrin25 said:


> Hey MLE,
> 
> I see on your sig that you have some emu teaks coming. Have you tried them? Are they essentially just denon d7000?


I ordered them about a week ago. I think they take a while to get shipped, so I'm playing the waiting game. All I know is that the Emu Teaks are considered the best, post Denon Fostex-driver headphones, and I've heard they're the closest thing to the D7000.

I had the TH600 and TH900 are both are a bit too bright, metallic and piercing in tonal balance for me to have kept them. I'm sure someone who is OK with EQ, would love the TH900. I'm just iffy about altering a headphone's sound with any EQ. They're both good, but not perfect and less suited to my tastes.





AppleheadMay said:


> I think the continuation of the D2000/5000/7000 line was the TH-900. Then a lower priced model, the TH-600 was made and the EMU's came from that line.
> All from memory way back, someone correct me if I'm wrong.



I dunno. All I've heard these are the closest thing to the Denons. Better than the Drop TH-X00 variants.


----------



## Joe Bloggs (Feb 15, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm just iffy about altering a headphone's sound with any EQ...  not perfect



That's a strange thing to be iffy about, for someone who's into headphone positional audio.  Not only the overall FR, but the FR and even the timing of sound from every incident angle should ideally be customized to you, for the best experience.  There's no way in heck that ANY pair of headphones off the shelf can be "perfect" for you in these regards  and what "perfect" constitutes in the headphones would depend a lot on exactly what positional audio algorithm the sound went through.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 15, 2021)

Joe Bloggs said:


> That's a strange thing to be iffy about, for someone who's into headphone positional audio.  Not only the overall FR, but the FR and even the timing of sound from every incident angle should ideally be customized to you, for the best experience.  There's no way in heck that ANY pair of headphones off the shelf can be "perfect" for you in these regards  and what "perfect" constitutes in the headphones would depend a lot on exactly what positional audio algorithm the sound went through.


I just mean that I like to hear a headphone's inherent sound for better or worse, and feel weird about adjusting it. It's the same thing with pad swapping. I hate doing it because it tends to mess with the intended sound of the headphone.

I'm not the only one that feels that way. Many people against EQ. I think if you're fine with EQ then there's many great headphones that only need slight tweaking, like the TH900.

Like I think the only thing the LCD-1 needs is a mild bass boost since it's almost perfectly neutral (slightly lean on bass) otherwise, and it'd be super ideal. Even with that I still don't do it. 😂


----------



## Joe Bloggs

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I just mean that I like to hear a headphone's inherent sound for better or worse, and feel weird about adjusting it. It's the same thing with pad swapping. I hate doing it because it tends to mess with the intended sound of the headphone.
> 
> I'm not the only one that feels that way. Many people against EQ. I think if you're fine with EQ then there's many great headphones that only need slight tweaking, like the TH900.
> 
> Like I think the only thing the LCD-1 needs is a mild bass boost since it's almost perfectly neutral (slightly lean on bass) otherwise, and it'd be super ideal. Even with that I still don't do it. 😂


😅👍


----------



## ArjenIsM3

Does anyone have any experience with the Razer Blackshark V2 Pro?


----------



## trix3072

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah I certainly don't believe it can power speakers. Powered speakers connected to it, sure, but passive speakers, hell no.
> 
> Definitely look into the Creative X7 Limited Edition (the white one), which has power for passive bookshelf speakers at least.


Hey MLE, I've read the Redscape audio review, and how is it compared with the Dolby Atmos? Also, can headphones that already have a vast soundstage benefit from this? I also want to know if I can apply EQ as well as the 3D audio.


----------



## deadchip12

Is using an open back pair of headphones like the x2hr + sound blasterx g6 on the ps5 better than the sony pulse headset, given that 3d audio can pass through both?


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Chastity said:


> I noticed that Redscape's passthru mode still modifies the output.  Waves NX will passthru just fine.  I'll email the dev and see what is up.  @Mad Lust Envy can you test on your end?
> 
> EDIT: seems to be some Volume Leveling is still being done.  Hmm, seems to be happening with Waves NX too.  Confused.  Maybe it's a Windows thing.



There's a passthrough mode in Redscape? Where?


----------



## DenverW

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I ordered them about a week ago. I think they take a while to get shipped, so I'm playing the waiting game. All I know is that the Emu Teaks are considered the best, post Denon Fostex-driver headphones, and I've heard they're the closest thing to the D7000.
> 
> I had the TH600 and TH900 are both are a bit too bright, metallic and piercing in tonal balance for me to have kept them. I'm sure someone who is OK with EQ, would love the TH900. I'm just iffy about altering a headphone's sound with any EQ. They're both good, but not perfect and less suited to my tastes.
> 
> ...



I enjoyed the teak more than any of the x00 variants, although the purple heart and ebony are very good.  I feel that the bass in the teak has just that extra bit of control that I wanted, while still being strong.


----------



## Majfa

Hi, are there any cable replacements for beyerdynamic mmx 300 gen 2 ?? The original ones are expensive, the one with 2 jacks needs it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 17, 2021)

Majfa said:


> Hi, are there any cable replacements for beyerdynamic mmx 300 gen 2 ?? The original ones are expensive, the one with 2 jacks needs it.



I think it uses 3.5mm right? Can't be hard finding a cheap alternatives.

https://www.amazon.com/Control-Cable-AstroA10-Gaming-Headsets/dp/B089ZXLJB9

Maybe this one will work.


----------



## Rozzko

Rozzko said:


> Thanks.
> 
> few questions:
> 1) does anyone playing with IEMS? Interesting is CAMPFIRE ANDROMEDA. How they good for gaming?
> 2) what headphones (closed) better (under 500$) than MEZE 99 classic? Only closed


?


----------



## Chastity

Rhadamanthys said:


> There's a passthrough mode in Redscape? Where?


1st button on left is enable/disable button.  (Looks like a power button)


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Chastity said:


> 1st button on left is enable/disable button.  (Looks like a power button)



Oh that you mean, got it. And thanks for reaching out to the dev.


----------



## Rozzko

Quick question! Please help.
What will be better in sound quality? (FOR PS5)
1) Audeze Penrose
2) Creative G6 + headphones (Meze 99 classics)


----------



## motorwayne

illram said:


> I'm honestly surprised Super X-Fi does not get more play on this thread. It is really the best consumer level virtual surround product I have heard, and I have heard almost everything mentioned in this thread. My X7, G6, Steelseries GameDAC, Mixamp... all are sitting in a box on a shelf in my garage (or the digital equivalent for all the software alternatives) while my little Creative Super X-Fi dongle just kills it in every PC game I throw at it.
> 
> Everyone's ears are different and all, but I really encourage people to try it.


Wow, I actually have one of these sitting in a box in the garage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 21, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Quick question! Please help.
> What will be better in sound quality?
> 2) Creative G6 + headphones (Meze 99 classics)


If you can go wired, go wired. Only go wireless is you WANT wireless. That being said, I know nothing about the Meze 99. I KNOW the Penrose sounds phenomenal, though it has its issues that are well documented on the Penrose thread here onn headfi.


----------



## ronfifer

Anyone excited about the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX for competitive FPS gaming? They say it is based on the HD800S and sells for $1100.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I am, just wish it was south of $1k.

I may get a chance to review in the future.

I really do want one, but definitely not in my price range


----------



## dualsense (Feb 23, 2021)

Hi MLE,

I'm looking for new headphones for ps5

Currently I'm using wh-1000xm4 wired to the dual sense for playing ps5. I tried to test it by playing hosikawa - bubbles on youtube on PS, and the sound is loud, but it's very muddy and voice breaking in high volume, compared to playing it on handphone via Bluetooth. Is the dual sense 3.5 mm jack on dual sense not worthed for using wired headphones and I should be looking for a wireless headphone?

I also searched for ps5 compatible dac/amp such as jds labs atom & Soundblaster x g6 unfortunately the price on my local online shop is pretty marked up compared to official website so I believe that it's not worthed to buy it.

Thank you for your kind response MLE.


----------



## duranxv

ronfifer said:


> Anyone excited about the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX for competitive FPS gaming? They say it is based on the HD800S and sells for $1100.



Other than being a bit cheaper, any reason to get the 8xx over the 800S?


----------



## illram (Feb 23, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> Anyone excited about the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX for competitive FPS gaming? They say it is based on the HD800S and sells for $1100.


Current HD800S is "on sale" for $1399 and it comes with the balanced cable (which Sennheiser sells for $300!) Massdrop version is $300 cheaper than that. But it does not come with the (exorbitantly priced) balanced cable so it's kind of a wash. That with the different tuning and the fact it doesn't ship until November, makes me feel like if you wanted a new HD800S, I see no reason to wait that long just to save $300 (presuming you had no need for the balanced cable...) If you're willing to spend that money on a new HD800S just buy the real thing now while it's *cough gag* "on sale" for $1399... It's a ton of cash either way why scrimp at this level? Or just buy used and save real money.

If they'd released an HD8XX at like $900 I think they'd have a clear winner on their hands. Or even done a traditional "Massdrop" or group buy for discount of the real HD800S. If the HD800S goes back to MSRP of $1700 and when the HD8XX goes up to $1200 (what drop says it will sell for after this initial drop) it might make sense but for a lot of people the balanced cable not being included won't make it as good a deal.

To me as is this looks like their own little kickstarter for a very expensive new addition to their product line. For stuff like the THX amp or the SDAC they did this too but they were a way more affordable price bracket while still being sleek looking quality "audiophile" components. But for this price range it makes less sense as a buyer, to me. Just get the real thing if you want it now in my opinion.


----------



## TeeReQs

Was really hoping it would be in the sub $900 price range. You can find a used pair of HD800 for 6-700, so it's a bit of a wash, especially when the 8xx won't be out until end of the year.


----------



## Lay.

ronfifer said:


> Anyone excited about the Sennheiser/Drop HD8XX for competitive FPS gaming? They say it is based on the HD800S and sells for $1100.



Not really. Here in EU it might even be more expensive than HD800S and without balanced cable.


----------



## danterikxx

dualsense said:


> Hi MLE,
> 
> I'm looking for new headphones for ps5
> 
> ...



Sennheiser HD 599 on sale or 560s if you can spend a little more 

The DualSense is good enough to drive the 599 

Worry about a dac/amp later


----------



## dualsense

danterikxx said:


> Sennheiser HD 599 on sale or 560s if you can spend a little more
> 
> The DualSense is good enough to drive the 599
> 
> Worry about a dac/amp later



Thank you for your response.

What do you think about HD599 or HD560s compared dt990 32 ohm? I see in the front page the fun score for dr990 is 8.5 but I can't find the score for HD599 & HD560s. Btw mostly I will playing single player game/campaign mode.

However price of the headphone of HD 599 & HD 560s is also marked up my country (eqv. $305 for hd599,
HD599, eqv. $230 for hd599 SE, & $300 for hd560s).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 23, 2021)

I said in the main page, If it's not on the page, I haven't experienced them. I also don't do scores anymore for the reason that people look at scores and completely ignore everything else, disregarding the fact that the scores are not meant to be compared to one another, and are only there to give you an idea of how I feel about the headphone as it pertains to itself. But since people never, ever listen to me about that, I just stopped doing them altogether. I was going to remove all the scores entirely but some people asked me not to, but the sake of historical preservation of the guide, I guess.

My guide could use a complete restructuring to make it easier for you all, but unfortunately I don't have the patience or time for that. So nowadays I just put up new reviews as they come, with no purpose other than to give you gus my opinions on said headphones, and not how they stack up to others.


----------



## Rozzko

Hi
Where I can read instructions (faq) for how to correctly connect G6 to PS5?


----------



## TeeReQs

Been awhile since I've been on here, but itching to try Super X-Fi. Right now i have a Sound Blaster X7 w/ full set of Sparkos op amps, powering a pair of HD800.

So, what's the better buy: X3 or Super X-Fi dongle? 

I use a wireless Modmic, so I'm leaning towards the dongle as I won't need the mic input. Can I double amp the dongle using my X7, or vice versa with the X3? I'd hate to downgrade the sound quality coming from my X7 with Sparkos.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Hi
> Where I can read instructions (faq) for how to correctly connect G6 to PS5?


Need help with a PS5, just asking any teenage boy (or girl?).


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
Whats the better settings for PS5 with Crative G6? I mean settings in PS5 menu. 
*What i need to select in AUDIO FORMAT - PCM or BITSTREAM(DOLBY)?*

I don need chat, and connection of G6 with PS5 by USB. (No optical connection because only USB connection can make SONY 3D TEMPEST SOUND in games that have this Tempest 3D sound) 

*Thanks *



PurpleAngel said:


> Need help with a PS5, just asking any teenage boy (or girl?).


i mean audio setting in ps5 and whats better (optical or usb connection)


----------



## Nominiel (Feb 24, 2021)

I'm currently messing around with the EQ on the SBX G6 using SB command (I try to aim for Oratory1990's Harman target from reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/faq).
I wonder... is there a difference between direct mode and Stereo + a "flat" SBX profile (everything put to 0)?
Unfortunately, EQ and direct won't work together .


----------



## Chastity

Nominiel said:


> I'm currently messing around with the EQ on the SBX G6 using SB command (I try to aim for Oratory1990's Harman target from reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/faq).
> I wonder... is there a difference between direct mode and Stereo + a "flat" SBX profile (everything put to 0)?
> Unfortunately, EQ and direct won't work together .


EQ is a function of the Acoustic Engine, which Direct Mode disables.  Using an external EQ (EQ APO for example) allows for Direct Mode.  A flat SBX is still not the same as Direct Mode.


----------



## Nominiel

Chastity said:


> EQ is a function of the Acoustic Engine, which Direct Mode disables.  Using an external EQ (EQ APO for example) allows for Direct Mode.  A flat SBX is still not the same as Direct Mode.


Thanks a lot! I suspected that there'd be a caveat. I have downloaded the EQ APO and the Peace already, sooo... let's try this.


----------



## duranxv

TeeReQs said:


> Been awhile since I've been on here, but itching to try Super X-Fi. Right now i have a Sound Blaster X7 w/ full set of Sparkos op amps, powering a pair of HD800.
> 
> So, what's the better buy: X3 or Super X-Fi dongle?
> 
> I use a wireless Modmic, so I'm leaning towards the dongle as I won't need the mic input. Can I double amp the dongle using my X7, or vice versa with the X3? I'd hate to downgrade the sound quality coming from my X7 with Sparkos.



Glad to hear the Sparkos op amps work well.  I got some myself, planning to install in my AE-9.

I guess the question is, what's so special about Super X-Fi over the virtual surround of the X7 or AE-9?


----------



## Rozzko

No answer? What select in PS5 settings for creative G6? Pcm or Dolby bitstream?

And does optical connection (by tv) is better than usb connection directly to ps5? Only I know that games with Tempest 3D sound will work only with usb connection


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> Whats the better settings for PS5 with Creative G6? I mean settings in PS5 menu.
> *What i need to select in AUDIO FORMAT - PCM or BITSTREAM(DOLBY)?*
> 
> ...


Typically bitstream is up to 6 channels encoded/compressed digital audio, limited to 24-bit/48k (DVD movie audio quality) and something at the other end need to be able to decode/un-compress the encoded audio. For USB or S/PDIF optical, PCM is normally limited to 2-channel (at least with Windows PCs).
Just not familiar enough with how the G6 handles audio, with a gaming console, to offer better advice.


----------



## TeeReQs

duranxv said:


> Glad to hear the Sparkos op amps work well.  I got some myself, planning to install in my AE-9.
> 
> I guess the question is, what's so special about Super X-Fi over the virtual surround of the X7 or AE-9?


From what I've read, most people seem to like it better than SBX. I've never really truly been happy with the rear cues of SBX. The sound quality using SBX is definitely one of the best I've heard, but always get the itch to try something new.


----------



## Rozzko

Does direct mode is working on console(ps5)? From holding 2 sec button it doesn’t switch to direct mode. I read somewhere that it can be switched on pc and then direct mode can be work with ps5(usb connection)


----------



## duranxv

TeeReQs said:


> From what I've read, most people seem to like it better than SBX. I've never really truly been happy with the rear cues of SBX. The sound quality using SBX is definitely one of the best I've heard, but always get the itch to try something new.



Hmm, I wonder if the Super X-Fi can be combined with the X7 or AE-9 so you keep the sound quality but use the SXFI's VSS capability.  Have you tried emailing Creative?


----------



## TeeReQs

duranxv said:


> Hmm, I wonder if the Super X-Fi can be combined with the X7 or AE-9 so you keep the sound quality but use the SXFI's VSS capability.  Have you tried emailing Creative?


That's my question as well. I haven't thought to email Creative. I figured someone here would know though.


----------



## duranxv

TeeReQs said:


> That's my question as well. I haven't thought to email Creative. I figured someone here would know though.



Let me try emailing them and see what they say


----------



## Rozzko

Does anyone use G6 SBX mode when watching movies? I notice that sbx in movies (Dolby digital) sound impressive

=============
What type of audio out to select in PS5 menu when connecting G6 to Ps5 by optical (through TV)? 

*HDMI Device type:*
-TV
-AV amplifier
-sound panel


----------



## Lay.

Rozzko said:


> =============
> What type of audio out to select in PS5 menu when connecting G6 to Ps5 by optical (through TV)?
> 
> *HDMI Device type:*
> ...



AV amplifier


----------



## AppleheadMay (Feb 25, 2021)

I'd like to ask some totally noob questions here as I've never used a microphone in-game via the in-game chat or Discord.
This is on PC, not console.

- I can use the mic in my Logitech Brio cam. Any good to filter out environment?
- Razer Seiren X better for filtering out environment?
- I could use my Penrose X but would like to do so via Bluetooth since I want to leave the stick in my Xbox. Good or bad idea? Good filtering?
- How do I connect a PC38X? my audio (both game and chat) needs to come out of a Schiit BF2 + Jot 3. So I guess I'd have to use the splitter cable and connect the mic to something else like the G6? Would this be better for sound and voice (filtering) than the Penrose X? More complicated solution?

EDIT: and what's the phones out on the Seiren X for? Only for hearing your own voice when recording or something?

As I said, big noob with microphones.


----------



## Rozzko

Does on G6 *DIRECT MODE* work on consoles? (PS5). Holding scout button for 2 sec not working/


----------



## PS5head

Rozzko said:


> Does on G6 *DIRECT MODE* work on consoles? (PS5). Holding scout button for 2 sec not working/


Yes, set it up on pc in the command software. It works just fine for me on ps5, but I cannot toggle it on and off with the scout button. The light indicator is not blinking, but I have tested it with different headsets and connectivity, and the 3D tempest is working with the G6. I have also used the G6 with an audio extractor and can use SBX with Dolby, which sounds better to me for a lot of games.

You should be able to get 3D tempest or SBX with the G6 on ps5, but you will have to plug it back in to the computer and use the command software to change between the two. Hope that helps a bit!


----------



## Rozzko

PS5head said:


> Yes, set it up on pc in the command software. It works just fine for me on ps5, but I cannot toggle it on and off with the scout button. The light indicator is not blinking, but I have tested it with different headsets and connectivity, and the 3D tempest is working with the G6. I have also used the G6 with an audio extractor and can use SBX with Dolby, which sounds better to me for a lot of games.
> 
> You should be able to get 3D tempest or SBX with the G6 on ps5, but you will have to plug it back in to the computer and use the command software to change between the two. Hope that helps a bit!


Thanks!! 

So, is it right? If I want to play game (on ps5) with G6 and this game has got SONY TEMPEST 3D SOUND, I need to:
1) connect G6 to PC and in command software switch mode to DIRECT.
2) connect G6 to PS5 by USB port on PS5
3) in PS5 settings menu I need to select audio out-G6 and type of audio - PCM
4) turn off SBX button on G6

and if then I want to play game that DOES NOT have Sony’s TEMPEST 3D AUDIO i need:
1) connect G6 to PC and in command software DISABLE DIRECT MODE
2) connect G6 to TV by OPTICAL and G6 to power soccet 
3) in PS5 settings menu I need to select audio out - HDMI==>AV reciver (in sub menu). 5.1 channels, and type of audio - BITSTREAM DOLBY 
4) turn on SBX button on G6
5) check that DOLBY DIGITAL light on side of G6 is ON

right?


----------



## PhuFighters

PS5head said:


> Yes, set it up on pc in the command software. It works just fine for me on ps5, but I cannot toggle it on and off with the scout button. The light indicator is not blinking, but I have tested it with different headsets and connectivity, and the 3D tempest is working with the G6. I have also used the G6 with an audio extractor and can use SBX with Dolby, which sounds better to me for a lot of games.
> 
> You should be able to get 3D tempest or SBX with the G6 on ps5, but you will have to plug it back in to the computer and use the command software to change between the two. Hope that helps a bit!


Hmm that's weird..everytime i plug my G6 into my PC to enable direct mode and i go to plug the USB back into the PS5 it powers up in scout mode?


----------



## PS5head

Rozzko said:


> 4) turn off SBX button on G6


For 3D Tempest the steps look good for direct mode, but you shouldn’t need to turn off SBX with the button on G6 in step 4 as this was disabled in the software. Once I enable direct mode and set up the G6 on the PS5 via usb, I leave the buttons alone cause I don’t want to enable any other processing (although I haven’t had this problem, the buttons don’t seem to work in direct mode for me -I could be wrong).

If you are not using 3D Tempest, those settings look good. Be sure to choose the SBX profile you want to use and then you can toggle SBX off or on, as well as scout mode. I also still power the G6 via the ps5 with no issues over usb, just change the settings for audio and you won’t need an extra power adapter for the G6 (unless you want to power it that way).

Honestly I went back and forth for the first month between Sony 3D tempest and SBX from the G6 about every other week. I have been using 3D tempest mostly now as I feel the positional audio is slightly better for what I play. It’s also quite good in games like God of War, so I’m trying to give it a fair chance. I’ll probably go back to SBX on the G6 now that I’ve been using 3D Tempest for a good while to see if I have the same perception of the two after a longer trial of both.

Try them both and see what you like, oh and also just have fun! I’ve had a great time playing some ps4 games with the ps5 and 3D Tempest.



PhuFighters said:


> Hmm that's weird..everytime i plug my G6 into my PC to enable direct mode and i go to plug the USB back into the PS5 it powers up in scout mode?


I always have the scout mode light on as well, but as far as I can tell it is actually off. I don’t know why this happens


----------



## PhuFighters

PS5head said:


> I always have the scout mode light on as well, but as far as I can tell it is actually off. I don’t know why this happens


Yeah and it's crazy how nobody talks about this at sound blasters official reddit or anywhere else for that matter. I guess I'll have to train myself to believe direct mode is on when the scout mode light is lit haha.


----------



## AamiBrown

I'd go for cheap and with a warranty in your case. I loved my Razor Earbuds. They just gave out last week after about 3 or 4 years. I'm pretty good with my equipment, but eventually the wires will always go. Personally I've switched to wireless HYPERX gaming Earbuds for the Xbox from here https://www.reviewsed.com/best-gaming-earbuds/ (pretty nice) and Wireless Plantronics RIG (very high quality sound), although I don't use the mic, I have a desk mic for that. If you were willing, I'd switch to wireless, but to each their own. They're... good. I like the mic as much as the Razer's because it's detachable and it is not fixed in place so I easily flip it up when not in use


----------



## Rozzko

PS5head said:


> For 3D Tempest the steps look good for direct mode, but you shouldn’t need to turn off SBX with the button on G6 in step 4 as this was disabled in the software. Once I enable direct mode and set up the G6 on the PS5 via usb, I leave the buttons alone cause I don’t want to enable any other processing (although I haven’t had this problem, the buttons don’t seem to work in direct mode for me -I could be wrong).
> 
> If you are not using 3D Tempest, those settings look good. Be sure to choose the SBX profile you want to use and then you can toggle SBX off or on, as well as scout mode. I also still power the G6 via the ps5 with no issues over usb, just change the settings for audio and you won’t need an extra power adapter for the G6 (unless you want to power it that way).
> 
> ...


I am wrong if I said that SONY TEMPEST 3D work only in a few games? Games that was developed with this technology. In other games TEMPEST don’t work. So it’s not like on G6, when you can just press SBX button and in all games have virtual surround sound. Tempest work only on a few games now and in more games later, but not in all games. Maybe I not right???


----------



## PS5head

Rozzko said:


> I am wrong if I said that SONY TEMPEST 3D work only in a few games? Games that was developed with this technology. In other games TEMPEST don’t work. So it’s not like on G6, when you can just press SBX button and in all games have virtual surround sound. Tempest work only on a few games now and in more games later, but not in all games. Maybe I not right???


Demon souls and other games, which are designed for the 3D tempest engine, will typically sound much better. However, I have read the PS5 does make use of 3D Tempest for VSS in other games as well. I could be wrong, and someone else that understands the technical side of things better should really chime in here. Maybe I am just hearing normal stereo that is quite good. From personal experience, I feel that it does work and is much better in specific PS4 games (like God of War or Shadow of the Tomb Raider), at least for what I hear. Looking forward to more games that are developed specifically with 3D Tempest in mind!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 1, 2021)

Tempest works for everything. However if a game isn't fully supported, it'll default to a generic htrf Virtual surround. It's still very good, if you got nothing else. I don't feel a pressing need to switch away from it even if a game doesn't utilize the true full tempest. 




AppleheadMay said:


> I'd like to ask some totally noob questions here as I've never used a microphone in-game via the in-game chat or Discord.
> This is on PC, not console.
> 
> - I can use the mic in my Logitech Brio cam. Any good to filter out environment?



Nvdia broadcast has AI noise filtering. Works like a dream. Not sure if you need a Turing or Ampere gpu though. Like a 20 or 30 series RTX card.


As for the other stuff, not sure. You know I use the Schiit Hel for mic duties. If not, I'd probably plug in to the G6 as the mic device. You'd need a Y headset splitter. One to your amp, and the other to the mic input. Probably would need them in close vicinity.


Surry for the late reply. Headfi notifications are weird.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Tempest works for everything. However if a game isn't fully supported, it'll default to a generic htrf Virtual surround. It's still very good, if you got nothing else. I don't feel a pressing need to switch away from it even if a game doesn't utilize the true full tempest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!
I already downloaded Nvidia Broadcast and tried it with the mic in my Logitech cam, works well.
I think I'm going to get a desktop mic to get better audio quality.
Wired phones with a mic would't allow me to use my better headphones through my Jot for games.
And the Penrose with Bluetooth isn't such a great idea as I read now in the Penrose faq. I prefer to keep the wireless dongles connected to my Xbox and PS instead of switching them to my PC all the time and getting a third Penrose seems a bit over the top.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Tempest works for everything. However if a game isn't fully supported, it'll default to a generic htrf Virtual surround. It's still very good, if you got nothing else. I don't feel a pressing need to switch away from it even if a game doesn't utilize the true full tempest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really? I think that Tempest 3D sound in ps5 work ONLY with special games that support 3D audio. If I am wrong it’s good)

I know that you have G6. What type of VSS are you usually using when gaming on PS5. Defaul tempest 3D and connecting G6 to USB port OR using SBX from G6 and connecting G6 to TV by optical?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 2, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Really? I think that Tempest 3D sound in ps5 work ONLY with special games that support 3D audio. If I am wrong it’s good)
> 
> I know that you have G6. What type of VSS are you usually using when gaming on PS5. Defaul tempest 3D and connecting G6 to USB port OR using SBX from G6 and connecting G6 to TV by optical?


I dunno why I thought it did. I've played some ps4 games like WZ and I THOUGHT it was working.. But I think you're right. Ratchet and Clank def sounds stereo. You got me second guessing myself on WZ and I'll have to check again. I may have scuffed the testing with the pc version.


Ah sorry guys. I'm have to check since more, but I think Tempest only works with ps5 games.
If I wasnt in a rush to work, I'd get definitive results. Gonna have to wait.


----------



## Majfa (Mar 2, 2021)

Hi, I bought the audiotrak prodigy cube black edition and I am a bit disappointed with the scene of these headphones.  In cs go the steps are audible, but not as much as I would like, the sound is so muffled. I also miss the possibility to denoise the microphone. There is no software in which I could change it.  I have a question whether Creative G5 or G6 will be a good choice instead of this Cube?  Is it better to replace the opamp in the cube?  Well, unless something else is worth buying, it may be an internal sound card, any suggestions.  Purpose of games only, mainly fps.

Or maybe Ae5 plus its good?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What headphones are you using with it. It may just be the headphones not so much the Cube.

@Rozzko

So testing again, 3D audio definitely affects PS4 games, but it seems like a 'expanded stereo' type of enhancement. There's definitely HTRF at work, but it's definitely limited. This may be why I was having issues with Warzone on PS5 in hearing things behind me.

So you're right. I wouldn't use it for PS4 games. Only PS5-centric games.

Thankfully, that's the G6 is for. I just enable SBX as the G6 is fed from my TV's optical out (sending Dolby Digital).


----------



## Majfa

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What headphones are you using with it. It may just be the headphones not so much the Cube.


Beyerdynamic mmx 300 gen 2, logitech g pro x and Mh751.  The same on all of them, the microphone picks up all the sounds too much . There is no such problem on the integrated card: /


----------



## Rozzko (Mar 2, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @Rozzko
> 
> So testing again, 3D audio definitely affects PS4 games, but it seems like a 'expanded stereo' type of enhancement. There's definitely HTRF at work, but it's definitely limited. This may be why I was having issues with Warzone on PS5 in hearing things behind me.
> 
> ...


Thanks. But it’s for all ps5 games, or maybe for few special games (Astro bot, demons souls, spider man morales) that was developed with tempest 3D technology? I this not all ps5 only games has got cool 3D VSS from tempest 3D chip. May be later all games will use it, but now I don’t know.

So all in all, if on ps5 I plying ps5 game (for example demons souls or sack boy) I need to connect G6 to usb of ps5 and having tempest 3D sound. But if I play older games (for PS4) for example God of war, Tlou 2, cyberpunk - I need to connect G6 to TV by optical cable and turn on SBX button on G6?

MLE - Does you connect G6 to PC to Enable Direct mode when you want to connect G6 to usb on PS5 for playng TEMPEST 3D Games? 


p.S. interesting when Sony will patch ps5 and tempest 3D can go by hdmi to TV and from TV by optical to external dac


----------



## Rozzko (Mar 2, 2021)

What’s the best SBX custom profile in Creative command PC app? What to select in virtual sound/crystalliser/bass and etc.? Best setting for ps5 games

*Command sound blaster-Sub menu-Playback - headphones.* in command settings what type of headphones to chose? stereo/5.1/7.1 ?


----------



## PhuFighters

Rozzko said:


> What’s the best SBX custom profile in Creative command PC app? What to select in virtual sound/crystalliser/bass and etc.? Best setting for ps5 games
> 
> *Command sound blaster-Sub menu-Playback - headphones.* in command settings what type of headphones to chose? stereo/5.1/7.1 ?


It depends..If you're hooking the G6's optical through a HDMI audio splitter, you can set to 5.1 but if you're hooking the G6 up through USB only then the stereo setting.
Feel free to chime in if i'm wrong about this people =)


----------



## AppleheadMay (Mar 2, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Tempest works for everything. However if a game isn't fully supported, it'll default to a generic htrf Virtual surround. It's still very good, if you got nothing else. I don't feel a pressing need to switch away from it even if a game doesn't utilize the true full tempest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought about adding a Mobius for wireless use with my PC yesterday until I remembered it only works wired via USB/aux or wireless via Bluetooth.
Kind of defeats the purpose as BT isn't that great for gaming. Or am I wrong?

*Edit:* Just checked your review again. No go, latency for gaming, that's what I was afraid for.
Oh well, I can wait untal they make an updated version that includes a wireless dongle like the Penrose. I think it won't be that long before they do a refresh.


----------



## Rozzko

Rozzko said:


> What’s the best SBX custom profile in Creative command PC app? What to select in virtual sound/crystalliser/bass and etc.? Best setting for ps5 games
> 
> *Command sound blaster-Sub menu-Playback - headphones.* in command settings what type of headphones to chose? stereo/5.1/7.1 ?


Nobody tell what better custom sbx profile to create in creative command?


----------



## duranxv

Rozzko said:


> Nobody tell what better custom sbx profile to create in creative command?



Personally I use 50% surround and 20% crystallizer.  Creative recommends no more than 67% surround for gaming.

So I've been talking to Creative and it doesn't seem like you can combine the Sound Blaster X3 with the AE-9 or X7. I was hoping to have the sound quality of the AE-9 combined with the VSS of Super X-Fi, lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 3, 2021)

She has arrived E-mu Teak. Let's see how much of the D7000 they channel.


----------



## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She has arrived E-mu Teak. Let's see how much of the D7000 they channel.


Beautiful!
And I'm curious about your findings.


----------



## Rozzko

PhuFighters said:


> It depends..If you're hooking the G6's optical through a HDMI audio splitter, you can set to 5.1 but if you're hooking the G6 up through USB only then the stereo setting.
> Feel free to chime in if i'm wrong about this people =)


Are you shure? Because I don’t know why in creative command setting is setting for select stereo or 5.1. Maybe if you chose 5.1 then SBX will sounds awfull?



*Mad Lust Envy - please give us your custom setting in creative command pc app (for console) and your custom sbx profile! Thanks*


----------



## Rozzko

I hate few things in G6
1) no power button to switch on/off. It’s annoying when G6 power up to socket 
2) volume controle without min and max. So infinity volume control it’s not good. And only one thing to understand volume level is light around volume control. For me it’s not comfortable.
2) it’s point for all external dacs. Volume control on dac. So if I playing console for about 2 meters from tv it not comfortable to change volume....but when G6 connected to USB port on ps5 I can change volume level from DualShock menu. It’s good. But if I connect G6 by optical it’s not working and I need to go 2 meters to change volume level.


----------



## Chastity (Mar 3, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Are you shure? Because I don’t know why in creative command setting is setting for select stereo or 5.1. Maybe if you chose 5.1 then SBX will sounds awfull?
> 
> 
> 
> *Mad Lust Envy - please give us your custom setting in creative command pc app (for console) and your custom sbx profile! Thanks*


If you want to use SBX for your Surround, then have your console output Dolby Digital (5.1 I assume), and have it output to the G6 via optical.  Make sure the Audio Engine is enabled (no Direct Mode) and have Surround enabled, usually at 67% for gaming.  No other settings required, but you are welcome to experiment.


----------



## Asyrin25

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She has arrived E-mu Teak. Let's see how much of the D7000 they channel.


Interested to hear your thoughts on the teaks when you have them.

Does the D7200 not channel the D7000?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 3, 2021)

The D7200 doesn't use those biocel Fostex drivers than the Denons, Emu Teak and Fostex X00 variants do. So I don't trust them to sound like the old Denons. Not that they're bad, but I'm looking for a specific sound.

The Teak def has that old house that I remember. There's something special about that old house sound.


As for my Creative software settings, I have everything turned off except surround at 100%. I don't use any of the other stuff. The G6 is set to 7.1. I have the speaker setting set to 'Enable headphone surround through output' or whatever it's called, so I can send the audio though the optical out. Then I send that to the Modius optical in.

When I switch to ps5, I just turn off the SBX button, set the PS5 to send out to the G6, and turn on 3D audio. Granted, this means I gotta swap between usb cables from the pc to the ps5.

Normally, I leave the G6 on the ps5 at all times, and I use Redscape on pc with my Modius through usb/Jot 2.


----------



## Rozzko

Chastity said:


> If you want to use SBX for your Surround, then have your console output Dolby Digital (5.1 I assume), and have it output to the G6 via optical.  Make sure the Audio Engine is enabled (no Direct Mode) and have Surround enabled, usually at 67% for gaming.  No other settings required, but you are welcome to experiment.


Yeah, I understand this, But what I need to select in this menu?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're using sbx, then 7.1...

If not, stereo.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The D7200 doesn't use those biocel Fostex drivers than the Denons, Emu Teak and Fostex X00 variants do. So I don't trust them to sound like the old Denons. Not that they're bad, but I'm looking for a specific sound.
> 
> The Teak def has that old house that I remember. There's something special about that old house sound.
> 
> ...


Does you only use G6 with PS5 by usb connection (to get Tempest 3D audio) or maybe you swap between usb connection and optical connection (to turn on SBX instead of Tempest 3D)? I talk only about ps5


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're using sbx, then 7.1...
> 
> If not, stereo.


7.1? But in PlayStation 5 menu I select 5.1 output (because I read before that don’t need to select 7.1, only 5.1 in ps5 menu audio out)

so for ps5 if I want to play through optical and use sbx I need to:
1) in creative command pc appointment need to select HEADPHONE CONFIGURATION - virtual 7.1 surrond 
2) in ps5 menu in audio settings select optical out and set 7.1 audio ??


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 4, 2021)

Updated my setup this week. You can see the Penrose behind the monitor, and the PS5 underneath the desk. It's too big on the top.. 😂










Rozzko said:


> Does you only use G6 with PS5 by usb connection (to get Tempest 3D audio) or maybe you swap between usb connection and optical connection (to turn on SBX instead of Tempest 3D)? I talk only about ps5


It depends on in how I feel.

So if I'm playing a ps5 game, I'll set the audio device to the G6 through usb, turn off SBX, and turn on 3D audio on the PS5.

If I'm playing a PS4 game or want to play with SBX, I'll switch the ps5 audio to hdmi, making sure its dolby digital. The TV outputs dolby through the optical out, into the G6 optical in.

I don't do the latter much anymore (since I don't really play any ps4 games anymore) but it's an option.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Updated my setup this week. You can see the Penrose behind the monitor, and the PS5 underneath the desk. It's too big on the top.. 😂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. And in PS5 games it’s no need to use SBX VSS instead of Tempest 3D sound? in new ps5 games tempest 3D sound always better than SBX virtual surround? 

And what about games that new, but came to PS4 and ps5 (for example - Cyberpunk) 

Sorry for many questions)


----------



## Asyrin25

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Teak def has that old house that I remember. There's something special about that old house sound.



I finally pulled the trigger on ordering some Teaks brand new from Singapore. I used to have a pair of D7000 but I bought them used and they were pretty stretched out. I loved the sound but the fit was never great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Asyrin25 said:


> I finally pulled the trigger on ordering some Teaks brand new from Singapore. I used to have a pair of D7000 but I bought them used and they were pretty stretched out. I loved the sound but the fit was never great.


I hope you can second my feeling that they bring out so much of what is good in the D7000.


----------



## DenverW

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I hope you can second my feeling that they bring out so much of what is good in the D7000.



I remember talking about these with you about a year ago, I’m glad you took the plunge and grabbed a pair!


----------



## Rozzko

Hi
Why we choose in ps5 audio settings for G6 (for optical audio out) bitstream Dolby? Why not pcm?
Pcm is uncompressed audio, right? And if we choose pcm in ps5 menu , ps5 will send not compressed audio by hdmi to TV and then TV through Optical will send it to G6 and then G6 do all job to convert to Dolby digital to allow us use SBX 

I am wrong?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 7, 2021)

Because through the optical, the G6 can only get virtual surround from Dolby Digital. PCM can't be decoded to proper virtual surround on the G6, Mixamp, and other devices that rely on Dolby Digital.

If you're not using SBX surround, PCM is fine.

TVs will only send Dolby digital through their optical out if they were getting Dolby at the source. Again, no Dolby, no proper multi channel SBX surround. If you try and force Dolby from the TV, you'll just be getting done improper, enhanced reverb filled stereo.

The only device I know of that decodes DTS to Dolby Headphone is the JVC/Victor SU-DH1 which I reviewed on my second post on the first page.

There are devices that do surround from PCM, but those are far and few, and the G6 ain't one of them.

PCM =/= Dolby

In short, send Dolby through Bitstream if you want proper virtual surround. Period. That's all you need to know.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 7, 2021)

Ok guys, so this is my short impressions (not a full on, typical review) for the Yaxi pads used on both the PortaPro and KSC75 (both using KSC75 clips, bent inward for max sounds quality as I have taught you guys on the reviews).

KEEP IN MIND: the Yaxi pads were meant for the PortaPro, as in, with the headband. That is NOT how I use my PortaPros, so my impressions do not compare to other's impressions of the Yaxi pads. Ok? Ok.

I don't like the pads on the PortaPro (w/KSC75 clips). It muddies them up, and gets rid of the great balancing.

The KSC75 fares better which gives them a fuller, less flat/unexciting sound.

As far as comfort goes, the material is nice and feels good on the ear, but due to their thickness, they don't fit all too well when using clips. They make the clips pinch the ears more, and if you loosen the clamp, you'll lose sound quality. So I say no go for clip ons. I can wear them for an hour before my ears get real sore. With the stock pads, I can wear them practically all day.

I think they're definitely made with the PortaPro headband in mind. So if you use the PortaPro as they come, and like the SportaPro and the Parts Express headband, the Yaxi pads may be a much better performer.

I went back to the regular pads, and they immediately feel much better with the clips. Since I don't use headbands for these, Yaxi pads don't make sense for ME. For everyone else, I'd say give them a try.


----------



## moskwiz (Mar 7, 2021)

Hi! I asked this in Introductions, Help and Recommendations and got suggested to come here. So if you have time to school me a little, I'd be very happy. 0

So I recently became something of a low-key hi-fi enthusiast (ie. went from Spotify to Tidal/FLAC and from smartphone to smartphone+USB dongle to Hiby R6 2020). On the PC I've only used keyboard manufacturer headsets for ten years (don't judge).

Having discovered that I've been seriously missing out in audio fidelity in gaming, I'm now *on the lookout for a DAC for PC *that has to be good both for music and for gaming (meaning mic-in, user friendly + ..surround..?) but *I'm really confused about virtual surround sound. *Of most of the DACs marketed for gaming, only a few products have digital surround capability onboard. Most, including the coveted Mayflower ARC Mk2 are stereo only. I play a mix of competetive and immersion games and have always used virtual surround via gaming headsets (Logitech G933, before that Logitech G35). Say what you want about the stereo SQ of the Logitech G933 (yep, it's trash) but the onboard virtual surround is really quite good, at least for my needs. But I'm into Hi-Fi enough now that I want PC sound through a proper DAC and at least okay cans.

Which brings me to my conundrum - I have a hard time believing that a stereo signal can be accurate enough for front/rear distinction and precise enough to obsolete well implemented virtual surround. For games like War Thunder, where precise positioning (especially in crowded noisy environments) is key to success, can stereo seriously compete with dedicated virtual 7.1? All these "gaming" marketed DAC's that have no virtual surround DSP, are people just gaming in stereo or is a stereo DAC + software (like this Redscape I just read the review of here) the answer to my query? If so, which DACs and surround sw would you recommend?

I probably could be happy with the EPOS Sennheiser GSX1000 (or maybe SoundBlaster X3 or SoundBlasterX G6) but since I want a single DAC to be the one and only for my PC (for now at least), I'm worried that the GSX1000 is not powerful enough, if I want to add a more sensitive higher-impedance pair of cans into the mix in the future (right now planning on gaming on V-Moda Crossfade M-100 Master + BoomPro). And as for the SoundBlasters, I'm a bit worried that their software suites are crap and that they aren't up to par in musicality/stereo SQ compared to some others. Any other onboard surround emulation capable devices I'm overlooking?

Budget for the DAC (+sw surround solution, if the DAC doesn't have built-in surround) is 100-300$.

Really looking forward to your ideas, experiences and recommendations!


----------



## AppleheadMay

Virtual surround is always achieved by software be it software on your PC or software in a chip on the gaming DAC. Hence the "virtual".
The end result is always going to be stereo (with or without virtual surround) since your headphones only have 2 drivers, a left and a right channel driver. (Exluding some gaming headphones with multiple small drivers you don't want to use for music at all and are even not that good for gaming as well.)
Both have very nice VSS solutions.

If we're talking virtual surround there are good hardware and software options like: GSX1000, G6, X7, Redscape, Atmos for Headphones, ...
None of these solutions are going to be brilliant for stereo music though (X7 maybe excluded but other solutions will still be better for music) and the power of the amp part in the hardware solutions isn't optimal (X7 better again).
Some use the G6 just as virtual surround processor feeding it's optical out to a better dac and from there to a better amp.

So you'd be better off with a dac/amp or dac + amp solution since that can give you much better quality for music. One of the many examples would be the Schiit Modius + Magnius at 400 or the Asgard with built in AK Dac at 299. Add to that VSS software which usually isn't that pricey.

BUT ... you want a mic input solution in that as well which drastically limits your choices to gaming dacs like the GSX1000 and G6, X7 or stereo dac amps with a mic-line-in like Schiit Fulla or the Mayflower you mentioned. These last two will be ok for stereo but can't compete with devies in the class of the Jotunheim.
Much depends on the phones you will be using and how much power they need to really deliver, certainly for music.

Another option is an Audeze Mobius which has VSS built in and a mic, has really good drivers for both stereo and VSS and is powered by the built in amp.
You can connect it via USB to your PC or with an aux cable to your amp. Bluetooth is also possible but I fear it might be laggy for games, you'd have to ask someone who has one. I have the similar stereo-only Penrose which I use with a wireless dongle for console, the Mobius has no dongle.

As for mics if you decide to go with an amp/dac that has no mic input, separate options would be a desktop mic like I recently started to use (Razer Seiren Mini with the NVidia Broadcast app) or the wireless Modmics you can attach to your phones. But I'm not really into mics so you probably better of by other peoples advice.

If you really want an all-in-one solution (built-in VSS, mic input, dac, amp) your best bet would be the X7 which is a little over your maximum budget, but so will most separate solutions be.
Something like a GSX1000 has an amp that is really not powerful enough. I owned one.
G6 is in the middle ground, has more power but it's no quality amping compared to an X7 or a separate amp.

Many choices, a lot will depend on how good you want it to sound for music and what phones you will be using. And what mic solution you want to go with.


----------



## moskwiz

X7 is indeed a bit over the price range. Plus I don't really like how bulky it is and I probably wouldn't use 90% of its functionality ever. I just need great stereo sound for music and Dolby digital/DTS virtual surround for gaming. There's also the SB AE-9, a more discrete option I guess but also on the expensive side.

Cans I plan to use this with right now are the aforementioned V-Modas but probably add some slightly higher impedance semiopen full size down the line (haven't really decided what yet).

The mic option I'm after is boompro style, mounted to the headphones, I don't want to go down the path of separate desktop mic.


----------



## Chastity

moskwiz said:


> X7 is indeed a bit over the price range. Plus I don't really like how bulky it is and I probably wouldn't use 90% of its functionality ever. I just need great stereo sound for music and Dolby digital/DTS virtual surround for gaming. There's also the SB AE-9, a more discrete option I guess but also on the expensive side.
> 
> Cans I plan to use this with right now are the aforementioned V-Modas but probably add some slightly higher impedance semiopen full size down the line (haven't really decided what yet).
> 
> The mic option I'm after is boompro style, mounted to the headphones, I don't want to go down the path of separate desktop mic.


Having been where you are going now, perhaps I can make some suggestions:

I started with a G6 for everything, and I've moved on from there.  As for a VSS solution, SBX works fine, except that I don't care for their rear cues.  (CMSS-3D was their better solution)  I also like to listen to music while I game, so not having to deal with surround shaping my stereo music is a plus.  My current setup works, since I retired my G6, and now use Waves NX or Redscape (I have a license for both) for gaming, and Dolby Access / DTS:X for when I watch movies, or use a game with Atmos / DTS:X support.

One nice feature of NX / RS is that they use a virtual sound driver to capture the audio.  But there is nothing stopping you from directing your music player to feed directly to your DAC.  So you set up NX / RS for default sound, going out to my SMSL M300, so the game outputs to that, and, for example, I setup Amazon Music HD to use my SMSL M300 device directly.  This way, my stereo music is unmolested, yet my gaming is HRTF embedded.

I have a Modmic Uni, but retired that in favor of a USB desk mic on a gooseneck stand.  You could use your onboard audio for your boom pro.  (I have one of these too)

You can read here for more information on VSS solutions : https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/chastitys-review-of-virtual-surround-solutions.436597/

and read MLE's info in earlier parts of this thread.


----------



## TeeReQs

duranxv said:


> Personally I use 50% surround and 20% crystallizer.  Creative recommends no more than 67% surround for gaming.
> 
> So I've been talking to Creative and it doesn't seem like you can combine the Sound Blaster X3 with the AE-9 or X7. I was hoping to have the sound quality of the AE-9 combined with the VSS of Super X-Fi, lol


Good to know. I just got my Super X-Fi yesterday, but haven't had a chance to compare with my X7, yet. 

Has anybody tried double amping a Super X-Fi dongle with an X7?


----------



## jjpresturd

MLE, nice setup! I read your reviews on the Penrose and the LCD-GX. 

I also posted in the recommendations/new users introductions. While not necessarily a new user, it's been many years since I posted. I could use a bit of schooling too and this looks like a much better thread for my interests because I'm ultimately working on a ps5 gaming set up with my Sony x900h. 

To paraphrase my post,

*Overall*

I'm looking for a new $500-1000 pair of headphones to add to my collection that I can use to game on the PS5 console together with my Sony x900h & PS5. I specifically want to upgrade from the "lower-tier" cans that I've had (Momentum 2s, HD598s, V-Moda, Razer Kracken). 
I want to learn about some good options for that setup, between Headphone <—> amp/DAC <—> PS5/TV. I've currently only got an OPPO HA-2 amp/DAC and I wonder if there's a good way to hook it up with my living room setup. I won't be gaming at a desk but from the couch/recliner.
No PC use here.

*What I intend to use the headphones for*:

Games — I'm not a competitive gamer; footstep accuracy is not a big deal for me. I'll be playing a lot of single-player immersive games on PS5 like The Witcher 3, Control, God of War, whatever else comes out, you name it. I will play the occasional competitive game but I'm by no means looking for an edge and could relatively care less about the headphone's ability to increase my performance. No PC gaming.
Music — I'm a generalist when it comes to music and I listen to electronic music just as much as instrumental or vocal. I do want a headphone that can musically satisfy.
Films/Shows — I'm definitely interested in the headphone also performing well with watching entertainment.

*Some Headphones I'm Considering:*

Budget not being a thing I would probably jump on the HD800s and call it good, but I don't think I'll be spending more than $1000 on my next cans, and I don't think I have the proper equipment to drive HD800s anyways. There are some headphones that have turned me onto this journey that I've recently learned about:

The Audeze LCD-GX
These caught my attention from your review, MLE, and I've seen a lot of reviews since. Did you choose to keep a pair of them? Would you pull the trigger on these over a Penrose or Mobius? I've been a fan of the LCD-2 and Audeze sound and I've really wanted to add a planar magnetic headphone to my lineup. The mic on these has been pretty poorly rated by some, although I don't often use the mic for voice chat on the console, so I'm not as concerned about it. I've read and watched many reviews and it sounds like it's up my alley, and musical enough to be useful for all three categories that I'm interested in.

Beyerdynamic DT1990 Pro
I've heard good things, but that they might be a bit bright and studio-focused.

The Audeze Mobius/Penrose
More traditionally designed for gaming/as headsets, these are appealing.
BUT I feel they might be geared heavily for competitive gaming and I worry they might not feel like enough of a step-up from the audio I've already experienced for other applications like music/film.

I'm all ears for recommendations on cans for my use case.

*Question on setup:*
I have no idea how to use external equipment to upgrade my PS5 couch console setup. Like I said I've got the OPPO HA2 dac/AMP. It's pretty portable and I might be able to connect it directly to the PS5 controller for all I know. Any other ideas? Could anyone point me in the right direction for literature on this?

Thanks for any advice!


----------



## duranxv

TeeReQs said:


> Good to know. I just got my Super X-Fi yesterday, but haven't had a chance to compare with my X7, yet.
> 
> Has anybody tried double amping a Super X-Fi dongle with an X7?



Let me know how it goes!



jjpresturd said:


> MLE, nice setup! I read your reviews on the Penrose and the LCD-GX.
> 
> I also posted in the recommendations/new users introductions. While not necessarily a new user, it's been many years since I posted. I could use a bit of schooling too and this looks like a much better thread for my interests because I'm ultimately working on a ps5 gaming set up with my Sony x900h.
> 
> ...



For that price range, you should consider the Gold Planar GL2000 double magnet version.  I use them along with my Fostex TH900's for gaming, and I really like them. They're about $700 bucks but they definitely compete with headphones that are double the price.  They're relatively easy to drive so you don't need a super powerful amp, very versatile and they respond to EQ very well.  They're very immersive for gaming and also happen to be quite accurate when paired with the right VSS solution.

I was so impressed with them, I kept them - so now I like to switch between my Fostex and these every few days.


----------



## jjpresturd

duranxv said:


> For that price range, you should consider the Gold Planar GL2000 double magnet version. I use them along with my Fostex TH900's for gaming, and I really like them. They're about $700 bucks but they definitely compete with headphones that are double the price. They're relatively easy to drive so you don't need a super powerful amp, very versatile and they respond to EQ very well. They're very immersive for gaming and also happen to be quite accurate when paired with the right VSS solution.
> 
> I was so impressed with them, I kept them - so now I like to switch between my Fostex and these every few days.


I wasn't made aware of the GL2000 — I'll have to consider those as well! Thanks for your input.


----------



## moskwiz

Chastity said:


> Having been where you are going now, perhaps I can make some suggestions:
> 
> I started with a G6 for everything, and I've moved on from there.  As for a VSS solution, SBX works fine, except that I don't care for their rear cues.  (CMSS-3D was their better solution)  I also like to listen to music while I game, so not having to deal with surround shaping my stereo music is a plus.  My current setup works, since I retired my G6, and now use Waves NX or Redscape (I have a license for both) for gaming, and Dolby Access / DTS:X for when I watch movies, or use a game with Atmos / DTS:X support.
> 
> ...


Earlier parts of this thread @ 3100 pages xD whew

Thanks a lot for your insight. It seems like a pretty good idea to go for Redscape (seems kind of most sympathetic at this point) and get a proper desktop DAC/AMP, although I still prefer mic-in capability to benefit from both worlds. Mayflower ARC Mk2 seeming pretty good, although it's a tad on the expensive side.

Any subjective take on sound quality comparisons between ARC, Schiit Hel and G6? Night and day?


----------



## Chastity

moskwiz said:


> Earlier parts of this thread @ 3100 pages xD whew
> 
> Thanks a lot for your insight. It seems like a pretty good idea to go for Redscape (seems kind of most sympathetic at this point) and get a proper desktop DAC/AMP, although I still prefer mic-in capability to benefit from both worlds. Mayflower ARC Mk2 seeming pretty good, although it's a tad on the expensive side.
> 
> Any subjective take on sound quality comparisons between ARC, Schiit Hel and G6? Night and day?


The Schiit Hel is a nice AIO if you need the external mic option. and you don't need premium features offered in software, like noise reduction.   The G6 has all the fun software support, and SBX option, and you can get refurbs from Creative via their website for $80 US.  I didn't have any major issues of their ADC, but I do like my USB desk mic more.  After comparing the G6's analog out to the SMSL M300 MKII, I discovered a couple of flaws with the G6.  (grainy sound + rolled off bass)

Both units will work with Waves NX or Redscape just fine, as well as Dolby Access and DTS:X.


----------



## Qupie

Great to see this thread is still alive and kicking! I wonder if it close to a record for the largest/longest thread on the internet...

Since I got my hands on a PS5 recently, I have been researching different sound options (including the disappointment about optical, UAC2 etc etc).

I have always used a mixamp, to get Virtual surround. Therein lies my question, especially for people familiar with virtual surround (aka all of you probably).

How does the Mixamp virtual surround compare to the tempest audio virtual surround? As I see it, I have 2 options. Either buy a HDMI - optical extractor, or buy a new DAC/AMP. Since the mayflower arc 2 can handle PS5 audio, I was eyeballing that one, but the price tag is quite steep therefore I would like to know if it is actually better than the mixamp solution (aka buy an extractor for ~30 euros). Although I am open for other solutions with provide external virtual surround.

Other information which might effect the advice: I recently bought a PC38X, which are fairly easy to drive I believe. I game on a 1080p monitor without optical out, meaning I don't need HDMI 2.1. Additionally, a new dac/amp would have the added benefit as a desk amp while working.

I have been reading a lot of mixed opinions on the Tempest vs DH implementation, so very curious to hear opinions about that part. Additionally, are all of you still in favor of virtual surround at all? The imaging on the PC38x is quite good, so I am curious if plain stereo wouldn't do the job just as well. I have been AB testing it, but since I currently just use the dual sense as DAC/AMP, i feel it is all just very mediocre.

Thanks!


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## moskwiz (Mar 10, 2021)

Chastity said:


> The Schiit Hel is a nice AIO if you need the external mic option. and you don't need premium features offered in software, like noise reduction.   The G6 has all the fun software support, and SBX option, and you can get refurbs from Creative via their website for $80 US.  I didn't have any major issues of their ADC, but I do like my USB desk mic more.  After comparing the G6's analog out to the SMSL M300 MKII, I discovered a couple of flaws with the G6.  (grainy sound + rolled off bass)
> 
> Both units will work with Waves NX or Redscape just fine, as well as Dolby Access and DTS:X.


Alright, I think I'll go with the better sounding solution, so Hel or ARC Mk2. Now if I could only decide between the two.. ARC seems to be a tad better all rounder, but no idea about which sound signature I'd like more.. Zeos really hypes up the ARC Mk2 in his review, but Hel doesn't receive any less praise.

Edit: But if I also want MQA, then I'm screwed I think.. would have to go separate mic+dac/amp way


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## jjpresturd

Qupie said:


> Since I got my hands on a PS5 recently, I have been researching different sound options (including the disappointment about optical, UAC2 etc etc).
> 
> I have always used a mixamp, to get Virtual surround. Therein lies my question, especially for people familiar with virtual surround (aka all of you probably).
> 
> ...


I want to make sure Qupie is answered, although I want to follow up as I've also got a PS5 and similar questions about the setup.

Say I've got an Audeze LCD-GX, an *OPPO HA-2 DAC/Amp*, and a Sony X900H Bravia, and a Playstation 5. That's my gear for my living room gaming/film watching setup.
I want to get what I can out of them and connect them to the amp/DAC too.

So, PS5 does not feature an optical cable slot. It has multiple USB ports in the front and the back, and it seems that support for DACs/Amps via PS5 is somewhat limited (no UAC2 support). Similar to what Qupie mentioned, someone on Reddit mentioned getting around this with an HDMI extractor like this one: https://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Newest-Extractor-Support-Vision/dp/B06XRT9VGL. Is that a viable option?

The X900H does have an optical out, although it's currently used by the sound bar in my living room.

Finally, I'm around 12' away from the TV when I'm on my couch. Is the best option for getting my headphones to reach and connect to my system really to buy a super long audio cable? If so, any suggestions on one that wouldn't make me cry from the expense?

Thanks!
J


----------



## Qupie

I think I can answer some of those questions @jjpresturd 

The big drawbacks on the audio extractors are HDMI features. Most are only HDMI 1.4. That means you are not able to use 4K@120, I don't think you can 4K@60 either, but I do think you can 1080@120 (Right? Because I am personally banking on that). 
You are also loosing stuff like VRR and freesync. So keep that in mind (I don't need any of it, since my monitor doesn't support it except VRR). As far as my research reached, it doesn't introduce an input delay though, which was one of my fears. 

Your specific use case lets me wonder though if some kind of Toslink splitter wouldn't be better (so you don't interupt the HDMI at all) and cheaper. But I have zero knowledge or experience in the quality of such devices.

But now I look at it, your oppo doesn't have an optical input, does it? So I am not sure where you would like the optical signal to get into LOL


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## jjpresturd (Mar 10, 2021)

Qupie said:


> I think I can answer some of those questions @jjpresturd
> 
> The big drawbacks on the audio extractors are HDMI features. Most are only HDMI 1.4. That means you are not able to use 4K@120, I don't think you can 4K@60 either, but I do think you can 1080@120 (Right? Because I am personally banking on that).
> You are also loosing stuff like VRR and freesync. So keep that in mind (I don't need any of it, since my monitor doesn't support it except VRR). As far as my research reached, it doesn't introduce an input delay though, which was one of my fears.
> ...


Excellent thoughts and thanks for the response! -- yes, now I think I was getting ahead of myself there. The Oppo HA-2 at the very least will be what I listen to the cans at my desktop with. I'm really very keen on getting a living room setup going and seeking a proper solution for headphones there. As you mention it, loss of 4k@60/VRR/etc. are huge losses in my book, because I bought the TV specifically to have those features via the HDMI 2.1 -- I hadn't even considered that the splitter wouldn't support it, so thanks for the info.

New technology; new issues. . . I should mention I'm also willing to consider a separate DAC/Amp for the living room setup. Some have been playing with the G6 Soundblaster. I suppose the best option might be to have one that has an optical input and to use that input on my TV. Unfortunately, I'd have to swap it out every time from the soundbar that currently uses it. I wish I had a bit more knowledge on this, it's holding me back!

I wonder about using the audio out or USB-c directly from the PS5 DualSense to the Audio-in 3.5mm on the HA-2 . . .


----------



## Qupie

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If I'm playing a PS4 game or want to play with SBX, I'll switch the ps5 audio to hdmi, making sure its dolby digital. The TV outputs dolby through the optical out, into the G6 optical in.
> 
> I don't do the latter much anymore (since I don't really play any ps4 games anymore) but it's an option.



Sorry for double posting, but this caught me attention. You play warzone on PS5 right? I am looking to buy a solution for that game specifically for now, so I am curious if you notice improvement going Toslink 5.1 vs USB 2.0 in warzone. 

G6 B-stock is actually on sale right now, its incredibly cheap. I think I will have to go for that one (kind of afraid of all the bugs people online are having though).


----------



## TeeReQs

duranxv said:


> Let me know how it goes!


Tried it out a little bit last night on some music and YouTube videos. Pretty impressed with how this little dongle can drive my HD800 just fine. On YouTube videos with Super X-Fi enabled it sounds a bit reverby to me compared to SBX on my X7, but music doesn't sound bad. I didn't have a chance to try out any games, but will tonight with some Warzone, and see how it compares to SBX.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Qupie said:


> Sorry for double posting, but this caught me attention. You play warzone on PS5 right? I am looking to buy a solution for that game specifically for now, so I am curious if you notice improvement going Toslink 5.1 vs USB 2.0 in warzone.
> 
> G6 B-stock is actually on sale right now, its incredibly cheap. I think I will have to go for that one (kind of afraid of all the bugs people online are having though).


I actually play on PC. I was playing on PS5 for testing only. If you have the G6, I'd greatly say do that over Tempest 3D in general. Tempest 3D is nice, but def not as nice as SBX. Go optical when you can if you want the better experience.


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## illram (Mar 10, 2021)

TeeReQs said:


> Tried it out a little bit last night on some music and YouTube videos. Pretty impressed with how this little dongle can drive my HD800 just fine. On YouTube videos with Super X-Fi enabled it sounds a bit reverby to me compared to SBX on my X7, but music doesn't sound bad. I didn't have a chance to try out any games, but will tonight with some Warzone, and see how it compares to SBX.


I double amped with the Koss ESP950 energizer and it was fine. I kept the source windows volume lower just in case but you can double amp it with anything that will play nice with the voltage. However I've not found the dongle really needs it that much; as you pointed out it gets any headphone plenty loud. (I only doubled it with the Koss as that's the only way to use estats).


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## Tripokaridos (Mar 10, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Ear Pads:*
> 
> The oval-shaped velour ear pads are fantastic for comfort.


A small correction the oval pads are Hybrid Velurs... Outside velur without stitching and inside artificial leather.

All velur are the aftermarket velurs from Dekoni or Drop pads for example.
Also the gray foam that is used inside the original pads are high penetrated air foam and no memmory foam for that exaxtly reason that u said ... Breathable material.
That's why nothing sounds like the originals because no one makes them the same all these years.


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## Qupie (Mar 10, 2021)

jjpresturd said:


> Excellent thoughts and thanks for the response! -- yes, now I think I was getting ahead of myself there. The Oppo HA-2 at the very least will be what I listen to the cans at my desktop with. I'm really very keen on getting a living room setup going and seeking a proper solution for headphones there. As you mention it, loss of 4k@60/VRR/etc. are huge losses in my book, because I bought the TV specifically to have those features via the HDMI 2.1 -- I hadn't even considered that the splitter wouldn't support it, so thanks for the info.
> 
> New technology; new issues. . . I should mention I'm also willing to consider a separate DAC/Amp for the living room setup. Some have been playing with the G6 Soundblaster. I suppose the best option might be to have one that has an optical input and to use that input on my TV. Unfortunately, I'd have to swap it out every time from the soundbar that currently uses it. I wish I had a bit more knowledge on this, it's holding me back!
> 
> I wonder about using the audio out or USB-c directly from the PS5 DualSense to the Audio-in 3.5mm on the HA-2 . . .



Like I said, I have no knowledge on how well (or if) it works, but to me it seems like a toslink splitter would be the better option. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=spdif+splitter&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 I think there is little that can go wrong with a digital toslink output, the technology is quite outdated so I don't think there is a risk you are missing some tech. I would do some research on it but as long as the device doesn't effect your digital signal it should be good.

Only drawback could be that you need to force your TV to output dolby to make something like a G6 work, while you might want DTS or Dolby Atmos for your sound bar (hypothetical scenario but something to keep in mind).

I just figured out my astro Mixamp still works... I thought it wouldn't (I had a gen 1, and this post https://blog.astrogaming.com/2020/09/xbox-series-x-and-playstation-5-compatibility/ states you can't use GEN 1 anymore) so that is great news 

On the other hand though, I was kind of looking forward to an upgrade LOL. Is the G6 a clear upgrade over the mixamp? Or is it comparable?


----------



## jjpresturd

Qupie said:


> Like I said, I have no knowledge on how well (or if) it works, but to me it seems like a toslink splitter would be the better option. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=spdif+splitter&ref=nb_sb_noss_2 I think there is little that can go wrong with a digital toslink output, the technology is quite outdated so I don't think there is a risk you are missing some tech. I would do some research on it but as long as the device doesn't effect your digital signal it should be good.
> 
> Only drawback could be that you need to force your TV to output dolby to make something like a G6 work, while you might want DTS or Dolby Atmos for your sound bar (hypothetical scenario but something to keep in mind).
> 
> ...


Glad you've got a Mixamp solution! Some have had success with the G6 Soundblaster; although I have no idea whether it's a clear upgrade from your Mixamp. How has your experience been with the Mixamp?

Although I haven't heard anything regarding the use of a Toslink splitter for this issue, I'm also a bit unclear how I would go about setting it up. It might be an option; you'd need a dac/amp with the requisite port, being optical, yeah?

JDS Labs is definitely offering a "downgraded" firmware on their products, altering them to UAC-1, in order to work with PS5. I've heard of excellent results with the Atom stack and that it works flawlessly with the Tempest Audio from PS5. I've started to consider just going for an Atom stack for my living room setup.

Another option appears to be the Mayflower Ark Mk2 — on their website they claim it works with the PS5 as a driverless DAC. It's more expensive than the JDS Atom stack but at least features a metal chassis. Has anyone given this a try?

I'm somewhat surprised it's not easier to find information from folks who are in this situation. I know that PS5 distribution is slim at the moment and it is early in the market, but I figured that a few more audio-minded folks would have been frontrunners in adapting it.


----------



## greyforest

Is there anyway to have better virtual 7.1 dsp?
Currently using a sound blaster ae5 for 7.1headphone dsp and using toslink optic connecting it to the desktop dac&amp 
I do find if you have up sampler such is mscaler it would make digital processed virtual surround sound much better. 

What i am looking for is a better 7.1 dsp processor, been consider to upgrade to ae7 or evga nu but can’t really decide yet


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> Is there anyway to have better virtual 7.1 dsp?
> Currently using a sound blaster ae5 for 7.1headphone dsp and using toslink optic connecting it to the desktop dac&amp
> I do find if you have up sampler such is mscaler it would make digital processed virtual surround sound much better.
> 
> What i am looking for is a better 7.1 dsp processor, been consider to upgrade to ae7 or evga nu but can’t really decide yet


Going from AE5 to AE7 would use the same SBX sound engine.  I don't know what EVGA Nu uses.

You can also just replace your VSS with another one, like Dolby Access, DTS:X, Waves NX, or Redscape.  Or have all of them.  (I do)


----------



## greyforest

Chastity said:


> Going from AE5 to AE7 would use the same SBX sound engine.  I don't know what EVGA Nu uses.
> 
> You can also just replace your VSS with another one, like Dolby Access, DTS:X, Waves NX, or Redscape.  Or have all of them.  (I do)


which vss you think works the best？i have dolby and dts，but they are not as good as sbx vss
Creative claims that ae7 ae9 have quad core processor for dsp processing, just wondering if it would be better than ae5. 

The problem with evga nu is that it is a usb sound card in it’s essence, and that creates compatibility issues with software and latency problems.


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> which vss you think works the best？i have dolby and dts，but they are not as good as sbx vss
> Creative claims that ae7 ae9 have quad core processor for dsp processing, just wondering if it would be better than ae5.
> 
> The problem with evga nu is that it is a usb sound card in it’s essence, and that creates compatibility issues with software and latency problems.


https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/chastitys-review-of-virtual-surround-solutions.436597/

Funny, my big issue with SBX is the mushy rear cues, as they sound too similar to side cues.  Dolby and DTS:X at least give me decent rear cues.


----------



## Blinding

Do you guys know if one can use the G6 on a PC without installing the software? Just using the side buttons to change between direct mode and SBX? My plan was to use direct mode on non game stuff and then when using it with a game turn on SBX via the side button.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

How are you going to set the PC to know it's 7.1, or what level of SBX you have, or whether to send SBX through the analog or optical out, or whatver your output is speakers or headphones, or if you're using crystallizer, etc? You need the software to at least set your settings accordingly. And you'll def want to update the drivers and firmware.


----------



## Blinding

Ok thanks for you answer. Is it possbile to set up all the setting on the software and then just using the buttons without having the software running in the background?
By the way, when using SBX in games should I set the ingame sound to 7.1 or stereo ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yes once you set everything up you don't need to use the software.


----------



## greyforest

Chastity said:


> https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/chastitys-review-of-virtual-surround-solutions.436597/
> 
> Funny, my big issue with SBX is the mushy rear cues, as they sound too similar to side cues.  Dolby and DTS:X at least give me decent rear cues.


Thx for such comprehensive guide
I tried mobius once which is very impressive and than i got the wavesnx for pc. And the results are pretty disappointing.
May be the on board dsp of mobius use a different wavesnx processing. 
For me sbx provide the most clear signal for upsampler. 
Have you tried superxfi from creative? It creates similar results compared to wavesnx but slightly more distorted in the mid bass.


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> Thx for such comprehensive guide
> I tried mobius once which is very impressive and than i got the wavesnx for pc. And the results are pretty disappointing.
> May be the on board dsp of mobius use a different wavesnx processing.
> For me sbx provide the most clear signal for upsampler.
> Have you tried superxfi from creative? It creates similar results compared to wavesnx but slightly more distorted in the mid bass.


I thought Waves NX was kinda meh until I took my head measurements.  Once inputted, NX became ghodly.

No interest in using SXFi until they have a solution that outputs digitally, so I can use my own DAC.


----------



## greyforest

Chastity said:


> I thought Waves NX was kinda meh until I took my head measurements.  Once inputted, NX became ghodly.
> 
> No interest in using SXFi until they have a solution that outputs digitally, so I can use my own DAC.


I thought x3 can output sxfi digitally with tos


----------



## moskwiz

What do you guys think of ifi Zen DAC for gaming (VSS through third party software)? The only reason I'm considering it is because I use Tidal quite a lot and would ideally like a DAC for my PC that has MQA capability. The Zen seems to be the only sub 200€ option. There's also the SMSL M500 but it's three times the price..


For now planning to use V-Moda headphones but probably up the ante at some point, maybe Fostex T50RP MK3 or something like that and add maybe the Zen Can


----------



## illram

moskwiz said:


> What do you guys think of ifi Zen DAC for gaming (VSS through third party software)? The only reason I'm considering it is because I use Tidal quite a lot and would ideally like a DAC for my PC that has MQA capability. The Zen seems to be the only sub 200€ option. There's also the SMSL M500 but it's three times the price..
> 
> 
> For now planning to use V-Moda headphones but probably up the ante at some point, maybe Fostex T50RP MK3 or something like that and add maybe the Zen Can


I don't have the Zen, but I have the Black Label and the original iCAN SE, and ifi usually makes quality (but exaggerated with audiophile advertising nonsense) products. If the Zen has the 3D and bass functions of their other amps those are also excellent as they're analog filters and play well with DSPs.

My only beef with their products is they actually have too many unnecessary features. The Black Label has little dials all over it, some of them get switched moving it around and it's kind of annoying. I don't know if the Zen has that problem though.


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> I thought x3 can output sxfi digitally with tos


SBX over toslink only, SXFi only out the headphone port.



moskwiz said:


> What do you guys think of ifi Zen DAC for gaming (VSS through third party software)? The only reason I'm considering it is because I use Tidal quite a lot and would ideally like a DAC for my PC that has MQA capability. The Zen seems to be the only sub 200€ option. There's also the SMSL M500 but it's three times the price..
> 
> 
> For now planning to use V-Moda headphones but probably up the ante at some point, maybe Fostex T50RP MK3 or something like that and add maybe the Zen Can


So what does MQA give you that USB PCM doesn't?  IIRC MQA is lossy.


----------



## moskwiz

Chastity said:


> So what does MQA give you that USB PCM doesn't?  IIRC MQA is lossy.


I'm somewhat aware of the controversies surrounding MQA in the hifi community, but to my ear, so far MQA sounds mostly better than regular CD-quality stuff on the few direct comparisons I've done. Since I'm using Tidal a lot right now, it made sense to look for MQA capable DACs. Now that Spotify is going CD-quality at the end of the year, I might revert to it, but much of Spotify's plans are still a mystery.. will they support MQA, will they have better than 16/44.1 files as well etc. 

Since I have pretty much no experience on dedicated PC DACs and amps and can only go on reviews, I'm at a loss as to what to think of MQA. While Schiit Hel or Mayflower ARC Mk2 seem good for gaming due to the built-in ADC, I could pretty much just as well get a Modmic wireless and go for a "proper" DAC.. So now gunning for one that gives the best bang for the buck.. and features.


----------



## Chastity

moskwiz said:


> I'm somewhat aware of the controversies surrounding MQA in the hifi community, but to my ear, so far MQA sounds mostly better than regular CD-quality stuff on the few direct comparisons I've done. Since I'm using Tidal a lot right now, it made sense to look for MQA capable DACs. Now that Spotify is going CD-quality at the end of the year, I might revert to it, but much of Spotify's plans are still a mystery.. will they support MQA, will they have better than 16/44.1 files as well etc.
> 
> Since I have pretty much no experience on dedicated PC DACs and amps and can only go on reviews, I'm at a loss as to what to think of MQA. While Schiit Hel or Mayflower ARC Mk2 seem good for gaming due to the built-in ADC, I could pretty much just as well get a Modmic wireless and go for a "proper" DAC.. So now gunning for one that gives the best bang for the buck.. and features.


I use a SMSL M300 MKII, and music source are my own rips, or Amazon Music HD.


----------



## Qupie

I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the G6 with all this uncertainty with HDMI audio extractors (I sadly don't have a way to test response time on my monitor).

Since I still have a small headphone amp laying around, I am wondering if I could make my mixamp a little better with external amping. Now, I don't need more power, but I am looking for a cleaner audio signal.

I have read some comments on double amping, but couldn't stream output be used as a line out on the the mixamp (2013)? Not sure if the DAC or the AMP part of the mixamp is the weakest link, but I assume both aren't really all that good.

p.s. what audio settings are you guys using in Warzone? I use studio reference but I am not sure that is the best for footsteps.


----------



## Chastity

Saw this and wanted to share

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...undblaster_x7_works_with_ps5_game_audio_chat/


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 17, 2021)

Not sure you'd want to pick up game audio from that thing. It's a bluetooth device. You're getting a compromised signal to send to the X7.

For chat, sure. For actual audio? Eh. Not sure I'd go there. Of course, I'm down to be surprised.


----------



## 18scsc

I just got some AKG K612s and redscape and have a few questions: 

First, does anyone have any advice for how to dial in the anatomy customization options in redscape beyond just "screw around and find out"? 

Second, I emailed Ryan from redscape to ask which in-game audio settings would work best. He said to set the game audio to output 7.1. Yet in fortnite, for example, that is not an option. So should I be using the in-game 3d audio setting or the default stereo setting? I'm not really sure how any of this works haha.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 17, 2021)

You don't set 7.1 audio in the game. You do that at the system level. Fortnite would likely just have some Home Theater preset.

5.1/7.1 is something you set on Windows. I don't have any idea on how Apple/Linux work, so anyone with that question will have to ask someone else.

Search sound settings on the Taskbar search bar (or right click the sound icon on the bottom right of your task bar if it's there). The top right there is Sound Control Panel, and that pop up will have your devices. You right click on the Redscape one, and click on configure speakers, and set that to 7.1.

As far as anatomy options, I left mine at default. Works well enough. I just set Room knob graphic to about 2-4 o clock. Though that's preference.


----------



## Bb808

I'm trying to decide between a pc38x or Philips Fidelio X2HR or SHP9500. I've ordered them from most expensive to cheapest in the UK. 

I mainly play competitive FPS games like Warzone and I use my Xbox controllers headphone jack for audio. I am currently using a hdj 2000 with splitter for microphone. 

Which of the three will give me the best sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If you're using the headphone jack, just get the PC38X. Really.


----------



## Bb808

Thanks. I was leaning towards the pc38x, I'm tired of multiple wires so it should be more streamlined. I wanted make sure I wasn't missing out on a slightly cheaper and better alternative.


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you're using the headphone jack, just get the PC38X. Really.


This.


----------



## ronfifer (Mar 19, 2021)

moskwiz said:


> Really looking forward to your ideas, experiences and recommendations!



I use the SMSL SU-8 DAC, and software VSS such as dolby atmos for headphones (from microsoft store). It is more than enough for competitive online shooters such as battlefield, and i keep getting hackusations. You will get 360 degrees sound cues. You have many other software VSS options to choose from. I don't feel i need anything better than this because it is already too good.

As for hardware VSS options, i tried none but my shortlist has always been GSX1000 and SB G6.


----------



## Playstation

do mid range frequencies(mids) factor into gaming audio? if yes, how much so? if yes, in what way other than dialogue, and possibly music? do they also factor into atmosphere? if yes, which elements of the atmosphere are effected and or noticeably improved upon by having this frequency more present compared to a V shaped sound?

on another topic. the PS5 has 3D audio, not sure if they have patched it in yet. Not sure if it still depends on whether or not the game supports it regardless if it's there or not. 

Is 3D audio basically vss? Would 3D audio replace the need for any external mixamps?

has anyone tried the audeze mobius or the hyperx orbits? please tell me how well  they fair in the gaming world, especially compared to non gaming headphones


----------



## gdourado

Is a Mixamp pro TR a decent headphone amp?
Does it improve headphone sound noticeably compared to the 3.5mm audio jack on the Xbox controller?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, my 8XX review will be going up no later than tomorrow. I'm done, just need a few last minute details to work out.


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## 21qz (Mar 20, 2021)

Playstation said:


> has anyone tried the audeze mobius or the hyperx orbits? please tell me how well  they fair in the gaming world, especially compared to non gaming headphones


I use the orbits time to time. Reason I wanted this in my collection is the closed back 3D experience. What I appreciate about these are how fun they are. I’m a competitive gamer, so i use my  schiit hel + pc37x for soundstage and imaging for accuracy. The orbits are planars, so  they have bass making it more immersive and great for music. Pros and cons come with everything. 1 pro is you get a few eq settings in the software. Con being that it’s not the best imaging, if any. Bass is a double edged sword if you ask me. It can be fatiguing. I got them mainly because I needed something closed back to not bother my wife as she sleeps next to my desk. Overall I would recommend if you’re going for more fun.


----------



## Playstation

21qz said:


> I use the orbits time to time. Reason I wanted this in my collection is the closed back 3D experience. What I appreciate about these are how fun they are. I’m a competitive gamer, so i use my  schiit hel + pc37x for soundstage and imaging for accuracy. The orbits are planars, so they have bass making it more immersive. Pros and cons come with everything. 1 pro is you get a few eq settings in the software. Con being pin point accuracy, if any. Bass is a double edged sword if you ask me. It can be fatiguing. I got them mainly because I needed something closed back to not bother my wife as she sleeps next to my desk. Overall I would recommend if you’re going for more fun.


comfort?


----------



## 21qz

Playstation said:


> comfort?


Very comfortable


----------



## Playstation

Dekoni Audio Blue for gaming, anyone?


----------



## moskwiz (Mar 20, 2021)

Playstation said:


> Dekoni Audio Blue for gaming, anyone?


Also intrigued

Edit: refine the question - which T50RP mod is the best for gaming? I'm kinda leaning toward the Argons but what do you think?


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Guys I couldn't find the time to record, so I'm just going to post the review without the video examples. I'll try and get that done soon. Just won't be today. Anyways, here's the Redscape Audio review!
> 
> *You'll also find it below the 1st post of the guide, on the 3rd post **HERE**, where I have the virtual surround devices reviews, etc. A lot of people don't notice that post is the second part of my guide, so I have to mention it every once in awhile.*
> 
> ...


Love the review I always tried their little demo on there site and thought it was one of the best at not losing fidelity. Have you ever heard of or tired Spaital Sound Card?


----------



## Trancefreak

Playstation said:


> has anyone tried the audeze mobius or the hyperx orbits? please tell me how well  they fair in the gaming world, especially compared to non gaming headphones


I have the Mobius since Indigogo launch.
I love them, and never heard better ingame audio/prositioning.

But I'm on my 3rd one and even this one is getting cracks as well. They don't last a year ( I RMA'd the ofc, I didnt buy three ).

So I'm on the lookout for another brand's headband/yokes to replace the Mobius one. 

Oher than that I find them the best value for money in terms of ease of use, connectivity, soundquality in a headset (!) and features.

Yes, I'm quite fond of them


----------



## ronfifer

moskwiz said:


> Edit: refine the question - which T50RP mod is the best for gaming? I'm kinda leaning toward the Argons but what do you think?


I researched this subject a while ago. My findings were:

A. Argon MK3 is better than Dekoni Blue for fun immersive gaming.
B. NightHawk from Audioquest is a little bit better than Argon MK3 for fun gaming in terms of controlled Bass (does not mask the mids). I own it now.
C. The below list of High-Budget fun gaming headphones are better than all the above:

Sony Z1RFostex TH-900Meze 99 ClassicsSennheiser HD630VB


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2021)

This is what I could come up with, with the very few days I got to spend with it. This means, expect some...schtuff. I thought about adding and removing stuff, but then I realize I'd never finish, and decided to post as is. Be warned. Trigger warning. 

As this is pre-release, things ARE subject to change, and so I battled calling this a REVIEW. I feel I got the gist of the 8XX, so I labelled it a review, but you can just call it super lengthy impressions if you want.

I also ran into a post's 100000 character limit, so I can't even add the review to the first post, other than a link to this post. Such is the life of a madman who has 10+  years of reviews in ONE post. Ah well.


----------
----------

*Drop + Sennheiser 8XX*



$1100
*Where To Buy*: *Drop*

_*Disclaimer: A special thanks to Drop for 8XX out to me for the quick impressions/review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Drop or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything. They only asked for my honest impressions. That's it.*

Note: There are various things I need to discuss in terms of the 8XX and this 'review'.

1. The unit sent is a pre-production unit within the shell of an HD800S, with the driver tuning of the 8XX. So they should effectively feel and sound like the finalized 8XX, outside of aesthetics. This means I can't show you the unit, as it is clearly not indicative of the final release. So no pictures here, other than those done by Drop themselves.

2. I was restricted to a very short, few day loan, before needing to send it out to the next person. This means, that you really should take my impressions with a huge grain of salt. I generally believe one needs at LEAST a week to get truly intimate and comfortable with a headphone. However, I received the unit on my days off, and was able put in many hours, which may have actually been better than if I had 5 days with them during my work week.  I do have some modicum of confidence with my impressions.

3. I have zero experience with either the HD800 or HD800S, so the 8XX is my first experience with this grade of Sennheiser headphone. I can't say it's better or worse than the formers simply because I have not heard those. So if you're looking for comparisons to those, you won't find them here. I'll be reviewing the 8XX like I tend to review all headphones: I review the unit by its own strengths and weaknesses, and not how it compares to anything else, with zero expectations. I also may repeat some things over and over. This is to really hammer home how I feel about certain things, so if you see me repeat myself, it's just the way my thought process is when I write. It may not be utterly professional, but hey, I'm self taught.

4. None of the 800-line including the 8XX one would be something I'd generally be into. This means, I generally like a fuller bottom end, warmer character, more intimate, and smoother upper range rather than the highly defined, incisive, spacious, detail-oriented tuning that I would expect of the HD800 line. HOWEVER, just because I'd be more inclined to go for something like an LCD2 over an HD800, does not mean I can't enjoy, or see the benefits and merits of an HD800-type headphone. I can be objective, and I can absolutely enjoy tunings that don't fall under my general preference. All I'm trying to say here is that If I don't go crazy for these, it's because they're not what I typically want in a headphone. It doesn't mean that I can't like them as a contrast. They wouldn't be my first or even 5th choice for a headphone I'd spend money on (especially in this price range), but for those knowing what to expect, and want this specific type of sound, the 8XX should still be looked into. So ONCE again, I may not be enamored with the 8XX mainly because from the beginning, it wasn't a headphone geared towards my taste. I can't stress this enough.

You are free to disagree, but if you're looking someone that further reinforces your belief of "OMG BEST HEADPHONE EVER", look elsewhere. I'll tell you what I like, and what I don't like about them based on my own feelings towards them and not what you want to hear or not hear.

As long as you understand all this, we're good. So let's get into it._



*Intro*​
I think by now those who know me, know that I'm a huge fan of Sennheiser, particularly Drop's variants of their headphones in general. The 6XX is arguably my favorite headphone of all time, especially anywhere near its price range, and I could never see myself without them. I called them the best headphone of all time. You don't have to agree. Yes, they're not technically the BEST, but so many factors about the 6XX make them an absolute legend. Argue all you want, it's my belief.

Then there's the PC38X, which to me, IS the best wired headset you can buy. Period, no ands ifs or buts. I love their tuning, their performance, their stellar microphone, their comfort, just...everything. I don't care who you are. Get the PC38X if you want a wired headset. "But what about--", NO. Be quiet and listen. Get the PC38X. End of story.

I reviewed the PC37X as the Game One long ago and liked them well enough, and while I haven't heard the 58X, I highly doubt I wouldn't think fondly of those either. So as far as I'm concerned, I believe DROP has Sennheiser headphones on lock. They know what they're doing with those.

This brings me to the HD800 and its offspring. When I first started my journey into headphone audiophilia, the HD650 was the first 'unobtanium'. Once I experience the HD650, the HD800 became the second headphone unobtanium. The one I'd always want to experience but wouldn't personally spend my money on due to high price and what I've heard on its tuning which didn't fall under my tastes. Even so, I still always wanted a chance to try them out. Life never quite led me down a path where I'd get the chance.

So, for so many years, the HD800 managed to evade by grasp. To my surprise, Drop had announced the 8XX. It really was only a matter of time, but it still felt like a dream come true. The moment I saw the unveiling, I IMMEDIATELY contacted Drop, and more or less told them I'd sell my soul audition these. Maybe not in those words, but the point got across. Under normal conditions, and for other headphones, I would've declined making quick impressions due to the very strict time limit. I feel that we need more time to truly understand a headphone. Still, I had to listen to these. I just had to.

Yes, they normally don't fall under what I personally would spend my money on, but I can certainly try to help those who would. In any case, the 8XX is absolutely worth consideration.

I won't bore you guys with the details on these. Product description and specs can be found on Drop's page.



*Build Quality*​
_Note: While the unit reviewed isn't a final release 8XX, I wouldn't expect any immediate, structural changes to the design and build of the 800S._

I honestly didn't know what to expect upon opening the box. I always thought the HD800-line would be big chungus levels of huge, but they're smaller than anything I dreamed of. Don't get me wrong, the cups are still very, very big, but they're not as comically large on my head as I thought. Maybe it's my big head, though I've definitely worn bigger.

There's something timeless about Sennheiser's designs. For instance, the 6XX looks modern enough to fit as a release in 2021 to my eyes. In comparison, the 8XX looks like the outright future. They are a marvel of modern engineering and design.

While the main shell is plastic, it looks and feels extremely durable. In any case, the 8XX doesn't look it'll suffer from any random hairline fractures or paint chipping that other Sennheisers have had issues with. There's a large mixtures of materials here, which no doubt would lead to a higher manufacturing cost compared to practically all other headphones I have ever experienced. The 8XX looks and feels absolutely premium in practically all aspects of its design.


*Headband:*

The headband is possibly the most modest piece of the 8XX. Looks rather nice, but nothing particularly out of left field. Just a solid metallic headband, with the size extension markings etched on the top as opposed to the inner extension pieces. The bottom side of the headband has a generously wide surface area with enough cushion to keep the 8XX from feeling uncomfortable on top of the head. Microfibers are used instead of any type of leather which I appreciate. The plastic size extension pieces have ample size adjustment, though not as much as the 6XX. For example, I wear the 8XX fully extended, whereas the 6XX has much more size to give.


*Cups:*

The cups are truly one of a kind, and you would never mistake an HD800 variant like the 8XX with anything else. It's what defines the looks of the headphone, and it truly is a stellar design. As stated earlier, the cups are quite large. They are also *quite* open, and deep on the inside.


*Ear Pads:*

I'm quite happy that the 8XX continues to use microfiber pads instead of leather or faux-leather, meaning I'd get all day comfort out of these. Not quite plush like the 6XX, but their firmness isn't to its detriment. They have a huge opening, and your ears won't bottom out against the drivers, or touch the side walls.


*Cables:*

The stock cable is quite long, and terminates into a 1'4" plug with a comically large barrel and strain relief. The main body of the cable is covered in a somewhat loose fabric sleeve, which I assumes helps keep it a little more flexible. I do wish the Y split was about 2 inches or more lower, though it's a general complaint I have with most dual entry headphones. The cable on the splits are rubberized and use a proprietary plug into each cup that I'm not particularly fond of due to it being prohibitively expensive to find aftermarket cables that terminate into it. The plus have to be inserted a specific way and don't feel all that great when inserting or disconnecting. At least it feels more durable than the plugs on the 6XX, which I've never been a fan of. Can all headphones just move on to 3.5mm or XLR inputs please?


*Final Build Impressions:*

I expected mostly high level build quality and design from the 8XX, and that's exactly what we received. The materials used, including the plastics all seem top notch and extremely durable. The only point of contention for me would be the proprietary plugs, which I'm just not fond of, though I can't attest to their quality or durability.



*Accessories*​
From the Drop page, looks like, the 8XX will only come with the cable. I don't find the 8XX to be particularly difficult to get to a loud level, so I would've liked to have seen at least a 3.5mm plug with a 1'4" adapter, instead of being limited to just 1'4". 1'4" to 3.5mm barrel adapters are highly inadvisable, leaving you with 1'4" to 3.5mm cables if you wanna plug into amps with 3.5mm inputs. I understand they're not meant to be used with smaller devices, but really, there's no reason why they can't just always have 3.5mm plugs with an adapter.



*Comfort*​
*Weight:*

Without the cable, the 8XX comes in at 330g, which I feel is perfectly adequate for such a large headphone. It's far from heavy, and while not particularly lightweight, it is distributed well by the headband design, and decent clamp which forces the weight to the cups. Rating-wise, Very Good.


*Headband:*

The wide band has plenty of surface area to rest on the head. This, in addition to the shallow but decent enough padding keeps the headband from becoming a problem with comfort, even after prolonged listening sessions. You'll feel its presence, but far from ever becoming an issue. I'd say good headband comfort, nothing particularly amazing.


*Ear Pads:*

The 8XX's pads are quite huge and I'd say moderately deep. This means your ears have a good amount of space to breathe. The microfiber pads themselves are on the thin side, and not very plush. However, due to the way they sit on your head, the even distribution of pressure keeps them comfortable all day long. They don't really call attention to themselves one way or another, which is a good thing. Inoffensive in the best possible way. They are just there to keep the headphones in place, with little contact with your head. Great ear pad comfort, personally.

If there was one area that may be slightly problematic, it may be that the lower side of the pads rests on the jawline, and some people are highly sensitive to that. Personally, not an issue here, though you may wanna take note.


*Clamp:*

The clamp on the 8XX is what I'd consider moderate. Clamp is generally not something I'd say would come up as an issue 99% of the time. The ear pads large area of pressure distribution keeps the clamp in check. As far as ratings, let's say... very good clamp pressure comfort.


*Overall Comfort Impressions:*

To say that the 8XX is a headphone I could wear all day is high praise. While I wouldn't consider the 8XX to be the greatest headphone in terms of comfort, it generally does well enough in most areas of that I'd say would land quite high on my list of most comfortable full sized headphones. To sum up all areas of comfort, I'd rate the the 8XX as great overall.



*Noise Control*​
This may come as a surprise to absolutely no one: The 8XX leaks about as bad as the worst open backed headphones out there. There is simply very little noise attenuation inside or out.

This means you definitely will want at least a few closed doors between you and others who may be bothered by headphone noise. Definitely 'personal home office at night + a comforter blocking the gap between the door and the floor' type of noise control needed.



*Sound*​
In the beginning of this review, I had mentioned that the HD800, 800s, and 8XX wouldn't be headphones typically geared towards my specific tastes. That does not mean I can't enjoy them for their outright contrasts to my preferences, and the strengths on what they ARE geared towards.

After over a decade of building up the HD800 in my head and how it might sound like, I've finally been give a chance to listen to at least some variant of it. The 8XX may not be a 1:1 realization of the original HD800, but for better or worse, I can take the HD800 off my bucket list. Now, how about the Stax SR-009 somebody, anybody? I jest.

My expectations of the HD800 were that they'd have great soundstaging, highly nuanced detail retrieval, and many layers and intricacies to its midrange and upper range. Perhaps a bit brighter than I'd like out of a headphone. Its bass would be that they extend low, but not have a lot of weight or fullness.

Oddly enough, in terms of the 8XX, I was correct for the most part, though I find them a little more more pleasing in its tonality than I anticipated of the HD800. Again, these were expectations, and not indicative on how the HD800 truly sounds like.

So how DOES the 8XX sound? They aren't quite the HD800 from what I've seen of the graphs. There's also the expectation that Drop would tune them and correct their less desirable traits. To this degree, and from what I'm hearing, Drop has succeeded. The 8XX sounds magnificent in some truly meaningful ways. There is a bit of disappointment here as well, but depending on what you're looking to get the 8XX for, they can be amazing, or passable. If it sounds like it'll be polarizing, that's because I believe it will be.


*Bass:*

I don't think many people will dispute this: bass is the weakest aspect to the 8XX's sound. Which considering how graphs made it seem like the 800 and 800S has LESS bass, I'm quite surprised by this. I don't think I really would've looked at the HD800 or HD800S favorably if they have less bass than the 8XX.

I definitely wouldn't recommend the 8XX if bass was any sort of priority for you. The 8XX's strengths lie in many things. Bass is not one of them. On the positive side, it has tightness, gobs of texture, and detail within the bass, but weight, presence, fullness, low end rumble, and general impact is noticeably below what I'd consider even close to neutral. Midbass has some warmth to it, but unfortunately hits a bit light. You can hear the bass, and it does have some decent extension, but much of it can't really be felt in any meaningful way.

In terms of frequency tests:

You can actually hear it all the way down to 20hz, though not much to it down low other than knowing it's there. Volume of the general sound starts to equalize at around the 180hz-200hz range to my ears, much too high for any real sense of bass or the frequencies below.

To sum it up, don't go getting the 8XX thinking you'll be pleasantly surprised by its bass output. Even in the range of what I'd consider neutral, it's well below that. To put it into perspective, something like an Audeze LCD-1 has very good extension down low, but is definitely a few decibels south of neutral in its bass. The LCD-1 would satisfy someone looking for bass way, way more than the 8XX ever could. So do yourselves a favor, and be realistic when it comes to the 8XX's bass. It's bass shy, simply put, no two ways about it. Get it for anything OTHER than its bass output. I didn't expect to be wowed by the bass, so I won't rate it too harshly in the sense that it's just not something once should be looking at the 8XX for. What is there is clean and defined. You just won't get much in terms of it. I'd rate the quality highly. Presence not so much.

I have to once again reiterate that I like some slight to moderate forwardness in the bass. I don't need basshead levels of bass, but I'd like some warmth and weight to it. So the 8XX was going to have a hard time impressing me long before I got my hands on it. If you're someone with a more reserved taste for bass, perhaps the bass will suit you just fine. Just don't say I didn't warn you. Manage your expectations.

The 8XX's bass leaves me a little bit wanting for more. No sugarcoating it. I even brought a friend over to try the 8XX out. He isn't exactly a basshead himself, and even he felt there was just too much missing down low. Music is felt nearly as much as it is heard, and the feeling just wasn't there for a lot of music.

Subjective preference and even some objective opinions can vary greatly. I don't want to rate the bass, because personally, I'm disappointed. But for those who want the 8XX for what I assume would be heavily leaning towards the strengths of the headphone, may not find the bass on the 8XX disappointing.


*Midrange to Treble:*

No we move on to the better aspects of the 8XX. The midrange to treble ranges are exceedingly much more impressive than the bass. The 8XX has some excellent level matching all the way up to the treble, with very little deviation between left and right channels. Of course this can vary from headphone to headphone, but I have to say it's impressive on this particular unit.

I can describe the midrange as neutrally colored in tonality, with fantastic presence. Unlike the intimate midrange immediacy of a headphone like the 6XX, the 8XX remains highly detailed and upfront while maintaining a great sense of space. There is some decent spacing between your virtual listening position and the midrange, but it is evident that it's the focal point of the 8XX's sound. I don't wanna say spaced back, because that'll give people the idea that it's recessed. It is absolutely in no way shape or form recessed. What I'm trying to say is that it's not in your face. It can take center stage without it breathing in your face? Get it? I hope so.

Frequency-testing (to my ears, and not graphs):

Great presence all the way up to a slight dip at 1.5khz, and a general rise to a 5khz peak main prominence. Dip at 5.5khz, with a rise back up to 6-7khz, down to its lowest valley in the 7.5khz range (noticeable), with good presence all the way up to great 10khz shimmer and beyond.

If there were any problem areas to note, I'd say maybe the 4.8-5khz peak being quite a bit louder than the rest of the sound, and I believe some faint ringing at around 6.8khz. 9.6khz isn't a frequency I'm too fond of either.

Of course, this is pure frequency testing, and under normal use, these problem areas aren't going to make themselves so obviously known. Constant tone testing and general listening are completely different experiences, so whatever issues I take note of, I wouldn't look too deep into it. Under normal use, I didn't find myself truly being irked by any aspect of the 8XX's midrange and treble. I've had many warmer/darker headphones than the 8XX that would hurt my ears with sibilance, harshness, and overly abundant zing.

To sum up, I believe the 8XX had to knock the midrange to treble ranges out of the park. Did the 8XX nail it? It certainly did. Fantastically clean and always present midrange all the way up to the upper treble with little to no excess peakiness. Aside from the valley at 7.5khz, nothing sounds subdued or missing. The only aspect of the treble that may hit a bit rougher than the rest is around 9.6khz, but then I doubt much will linger there for too long. I honestly expected overly clinical, or even some treble harshness. In reality, the 8XX ended up being much more pleasant and smoother than I could've ever hoped for. Not so smooth as in to be blunted down, but just enough to knock off the edginess that can hamper detail oriented headphones. The midrange to treble tonality is just peak brilliance.

Seriously though, I'm very impressed by the 8XX performance. I would watch some video and with literally any other headphone that isn't smoothed over, I'd brace for those moments when someone speaking would just sound overly zingy and artificial. It never came with the 8XX. Like, you would expect it to come because the 8XX doesn't exactly smooth over details, but somehow, it'd just get their voices going without that sudden tizz when people speak. A lesser headphone aimed at clarity and details would certainly fail that test. Good on you, 8XX.

If I had to rate the midrange to treble, it'd be outright excellence. I now understand why people loved the better parts of the HD800 and HD800S.


*Soundstage and Imaging:*

After having heard so much about the HD800's soundstage for well over a decade, the 8XX had a lot of hype to live up to. If there was ONE thing I could take away and expect from it, it was going to be soundstage. Had the 8XX failed in this regard, I would've considered it an utter disappointment. Thankfully, the hype was justified. The 8XX has a wide, utterly open, spacious soundstage, with great layers to the sound and the objects within it. Everything is cleanly and clearly defined in the virtual space. Nothing sounds hazy or overly diffused, nor do objects blur between one another.

I was already spoiled by large soundstages from cheaper headphones for long enough that another large soundstaging headphone wasn't going to blow me away. Due to personal anticipation, the 8XX didn't quite wow me as I was hoping for, but perhaps I set my expectations too high. That, and I'm so accustomed to using virtual surround DSPs that expand soundstages far, far more than any headphone can realistically portray without aid of a surround DSP. Thankfully, the 8XX is a prime candidate for those surround DSPs, so the large, realistic headphone stage that it does have, is a fantastic foundation for some wonderful soundstage magic.

The last time I was wowed by soundstage presentation was with the HiFiMAN Ananda, and that's because the soundstage is just, different? The Ananda has that planar depth in addition to an incredibly notable tall sonic ceiling, which isn't something I would have expected from any headphone. The 8XX doesn't give up much of anything against that, but it was already something I experienced, so the 8XX didn't bring me anything new on that front.

What the 8XX did bring was an overall soundstage performance that wouldn't be outdone from anything other than possibly its own brethren, the HD800 and HD800S. If I had to rate the soundstage on the 8XX, it would be that it is simply stellar. As expected. You want vast, open sound, you want the 8XX. That simple.


*Clarity:*

Another thing the 8XX had to live up to, was the expectation of endless clarity and micro-detail retrieval. Ok, maybe more an expectation of the HD800, but since the general balance on the 8XX follows the HD800 and HD800S closely, it shouldn't sound too farfetched that I would expect some level of similarity in terms of how they pick up the nuances in the smallest of details.

Of course, having not heard either the HD800 or 800S, I could only go off what I would expect out of a headphone that is leaner, analytical, and focused on mid to upper range performance. It may not be a tuning my preferences steer towards, but it's not an tuning that is alien to me. From the first moment I pressed play, it was clear that the 8XX would stand high and above so many others. There is this pristine, crisp clarity to its analytical subtleties, yet, it does it would it sounding sterile or lifeless. There's a sense of realism even in the smallest micro-details. Just a teeny hint of fleshiness there to dodge the 'artifical' boost in sound that so many other headphones duffer from.

Clarity is magnificent, through and through.



*Sound Signature and Amplification*​
After having heard the slight complaints about the bass being a bit south of perceived neutrality, with a neutral sounding midrange and treble, what can you expect with the sound signature? To my ears, it sticks to being in credibly transparent and neutral, despite an obvious lack of bottom presence. Apparently the 8XX is supposed to be a little warmer than the HD800 and HD800S, but even so I still feel it treads on being neutral and open to being altered by the gear you attach to it.

This brings me to amplification. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind, that the 8XX will be transformed by whatever you pair with it. I used a Modius/Jotunheinm 2 for this Review, so I stayed on the SS side of gear. I've heard the HD800 (and by association the 8XX) shines with OTL tube amps, and I can totally picture why. Some sweetness would go a long way with the 8XX, though I don't think going the route of solid state to highlight its strengths instead of trying to gloss over its lesser desirable traits is such a bad idea either.

Having heard for so long that the HD800 is very picky with amplification, I have no reason to believe otherwise. From experience with the 8XX, I believe that to be absolutely true. So, if you're in the market for the 8XX, make sure you know what you're getting into, and plan around it accordingly. I don't find it particularly forgiving, so I would do my homework in what works well and what doesn't.



*Gaming*​
Gaming performance on the 8XX is about what I expected. By expected, I mean the expectation that the 8XX would be one of the best, (if not arguably THE best) headphone for competitive gaming. If you were looking for a headphone where the ability to pick up the subtlest of sound cues, and the ability to place them around you accurately, the 8XX is the headphone for you. Likely, THE headphone.

This means that the 8XX should be heavily, HEAVILY aimed towards competitive gaming, whether it's at home, or in a pro setting (as long as open-backed high leakage headphones are acceptable). I'm not going to sit here telling you that you NEED the 8XX for competitive gaming. You can certainly get by with much less, and to a good enough level to be just as competitive. However, there are no tradeoffs in quality here. Clarity, definition, soundstage, positional accuracy, and a host of other benefits are all at an extremely high level, where there really is no need for you to look further beyond. If you have an 8XX, you're absolutely set for life.

Now when I say you can do with much less, you only need to look at something like an AKG K701/K702/Q701, Sennheiser PC37X, or an Audio-Technica AD700X for cheaper, lower level, but nearly as performant headphones. However, the 8XX just brings gaming performance to the absolute max. I know I don't do scores anymore, but the 8XX would absolutely hit a Masterful 10/10 for competitive gaming. It's about as close to perfect as anything I've heard.

The only tradeoffs for such a ridiculously high degree of competitive performance, is the less than stellar immersive qualities. Namely, the less than impactful bass performance.

A lot of casual, non-competitive gaming needs a nice, full, bold presence in the bass, which the 8XX just isn't about. It's there, only just, but it won't excite you by any stretch of the word. I have stated that headphones with fantastically large soundstages do bring a level of fun even if they lack some low end, but there's just no replacement for that atmospheric rumble, explosive impact, and weight added to the sound by a solid low end. It wouldn't be anywhere close to my choices for playing something like Gears of War, God of War, Resident Evil, or Doom 2016. You will definitely want to balance the 8XX with a more fun oriented headphone.

Summing up the 8XX for gaming, it is absolute, sheer brilliance for competitive gaming. For anything non-competitive, it is a somewhat decent, if unremarkable headphone. If you want to focus on fun, casual, immersive gaming, there's just better out there, without question. Even Drop's own PC38X is a more fun Sennheiser product, and it doesn't give up too much in competitive either. It's definitely not on the technical level of the 8XX, but for the price, it is the best darn headset I can think of. I only wish there was a headphone variant, but I digress. Bringing it back to the 8XX, it is a headphone that I'm split on for gaming, just as I am for all other uses. Get it for what it's good at (competitive), balance it out with something else for other forms of gaming uses.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

I'm going to stick my neck out here in telling you guys that I believe the 8XX isn't a very versatile headphone. You will really want to use it for very specific genres that aren't bass reliant. Think of anything where bass isn't a huge contributor to the sound, and the 8XX will likely excel. I love it for competitive gaming, podcasting or interview format videos, news, slice of life anime, and any casual gaming where I don't feel the need to be immersed. Anything where you want to 'feel' the raw, gritty, dark, depth of explosions and things of that nature won't exactly change your life on the 8XX. The name of the game is to use the 8XX what it is good with, and not as a workhorse all rounder, which it absolutely isn't.


*Practicality:*

The 8XX is quite large and unwieldy. It ridiculously open with absolutely nothing in the way of noise control. It comes with a very long, not very transportable friendly cable. It is very picky with amplification.

What I'm trying to say with all this, is that you will want to keep it the 8XX at home or personal office. I wouldn't dare tread anywhere public with it, not only in fear of it getting stolen (she is quite a looker after all), but also because you wouldn't want to annoy everyone else with your audio. That and it looks quite ridiculously oversized when worn. It would simply garner all sorts of unwanted attention.

Don't be silly. Keep it at the home/office.


*Who It Is For:*

Rather than start who it's for, I can with confidence tell you who the 8XX ISN'T for. It isn't for those that want something that they can jam out to when they hit random on their entire music library. You will find them lacking for some things. Really, the 8XX needs to be used to its strengths, and mainly that. Like taking a day where you feel like classical, acoustic, folk, and things like old timey music are your desired selection.

They are for those who have a large staple of headphones, or at the very least, one main headphone that can contrast the airy, light, clean sound on the 8XX. Something more impactful, deeper, bolder, and aggressive. Perhaps even something more well rounded, that doesn't particularly excel in anything, but can work with all manner of uses.

The 8XX makes an EXCELLENT high end complementary headphone.

As far as gamers go, the 8XX will be for those that simply want a headphone of the highest caliber that can play competitive/detail-focused games, without feeling like they've given up any auditory information. If you've heard of the AKG K702 or Q701, and would like a higher tier, refined version of that level of detail retrieval, amplified to the max, the 8XX will feel right at home. Those were among the highest rated headphones for competitive gaming on my list, and the 8XX bests those, plain and simple. Now whether the premium of moving up to the 8XX is worthwhile, that's entirely on how you like to spend your money. Personally, I can live with much less. Yet, I'm not you, or anyone else. If you want the best on offer and can afford the 8XX to use for competitive gaming, more power to you. They certainly won't let you down, and I doubt you'll find much of anything that competes.

Those looking into the HD800 line (8XX included) know what they're getting into. I don't believe the 8XX will stray far away from what people have come to expect from something like the HD800S. A battle of subtleties is more likely than a complete turn around from what has been established by those that have come before.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Futuristic looks and color scheme
Sturdy build
Surprising comfort
Amazing, top level clarity and detail retrieval, without the fatigue usually associated with a headphone this clean sounding
Incredible soundstage
Legendary competitive gaming performance
*Dislikes:*

Limited availability
Long cable with proprietary plugs
Bass output deficiency (this is really the only real area of disappointment I can find in terms of the 8XX's sound)


*Final Impressions*​
Drop did what everyone wanted for a long time now. They brought us what is essentially the HD800S, made subtle tweaks, added their own colorway, and priced it well below the 800S. If you're in the market for the 800S, I don't see why anyone wouldn't just opt for the 8XX instead. You're saving around half a grand for use in other things, and you get likely the best tuned version of this driver. Perhaps more subtle more rather than significant, but nonetheless, a net positive.

I know my impressions here are undoubtedly polarizing, but hey, the 8XX is a polarizing headphone. Many people will love them and use them for what they truly excel in. Other may not like them all too much, because it ultimately just won't be perfectly suited for some modern genres of music, and casual uses like many action movies and games.

Despite it all, the 8XX is a fantastic headphone. It truly is. Once you have a firm understanding on when and where it will shine. You don't wanna go listening to EDM with these. Use them for the stuff they're good with, and you'll be absolutely blown away. Leave the rest to something else.

So the final question is: Is the 8XX for me? For my tastes in music, and general media, as well as how I tend to use my headphones in general, the simple answer is; not really. Other than for competitive gaming, (which it is an undeniably juggernaut of a headphone for), I just don't see myself having many uses for something like the 8XX.

To placate some of you, I can sit here and tell you guys that I'm not a hardcore music listener to begin with. I use my headphones for a variety of media, but rarely will I sit here and just listen to music outside of when testing for reviews. This is odd for a headphone reviewer, but I'd like to believe I have enough experience to still give you decent impressions. Not like I never listen to music. I do. But I'm not the diehard music audiophile like others may be. I use my headphones for movies, games, TV shows, streaming services, podcasts, and THEN some music. Stating this, there may be a sudden realization that the 8XX is first and foremost a music oriented headphone, and of this I have no doubt. Specific music, but still...music.

With the correct application, the Drop + Sennheiser 8XX is exceptional. I'm sure many of you will have a complete understanding of where to aim the 8XX towards. For this I'll be fair and rate them 4 out of 5 stars. This is middle ground between what I personally feel is more a 3.5 out of 5 (which I'd rate as very good overall, with caveats), but I feel others that would use the 8XX properly would rate it an easy 5 out of 5. The 8XX wasn't made for someone like me. For those that it IS made for, I have no doubt, the 8XX will be outright legendary.


----------



## Chastity

@Mad Lust Envy You didn't mention anything about it's intimacy abilities.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 21, 2021)

Chastity said:


> @Mad Lust Envy You didn't mention anything about it's intimacy abilities.



And I've never really used that metric for my reviews.

The 8XX isn't intimate. Not to me. The 6XX, the LCD2 are intimate. The 8XX, nope. The soundstaging section would be b enough to let people know that. It's really open and spacious. That's the polar opposite of intimate to me. For someone else, sure whatever floats your boat.

Also, I was bound to miss some things. I was under a very strict time limit, so I did what I could.


----------



## Odin412

Excellent review - thanks for sharing! I listened to the original HD800 and while it had astounding clarity and amazing sense of soundstage and space it was so bright and sibilant that it was almost physically painful to listen to anything but near-perfect recordings of audiophile demo tracks. The HD800S was better but still on the bright side. It sounds like the good folks at Drop have tuned the 8XX to keep the good parts (clarity and soundstage) while taming the bad parts (treble peak and sibilance). I look forward to hearing it at an upcoming CanJam. Like you I am a huge fan of the HD 650, which I consider to be one of the best headphones of all time.

As for the Stax SR-009, it has an amazing sense of 'air', but to my ears it sounds a bit too bright and artificial in the treble. For electrostatic headphones I much prefer the Dan Clark Audio Voce.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I really fell in love with stats when I heard the SR407. Like, it's not even a high end one, but it had the best treble I had ever heard. Like it was both fast and super resolving, but it was never fatiguing. I would've hoped the SR009 would just be like that but to a higher degree. 

The Voce sounds really intriguing, I know Dan does amazing stuff. The Ether C some variant is STILL the best closed back I had ever heard, and probably the most impressive headphone I have heard period.. The Alpha Dogs were amazing as well.


----------



## ronfifer

how much time did you spend gaming competitively while testing the 8xx?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 21, 2021)

Not a ton, given the limit. But the time I used it, it was fairly evident, it's absolutely top level. Doesn't take much to realize it. I know this impression wouldn't change even if I had a year with them.

Like everything else, the impressions are fool proof, as I had so little time, but I'm confident with my feelings of these things.

Coincidentally, I had even less review time with the HD598, the Stax SR407, and a few others.


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## AppleheadMay

I wonder if the Arya wouldn't give you most of what the HD800 series gives for competitive gaming and add bass and immersion for non-competititve gaming and be better for more music genres.


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## Mad Lust Envy

AppleheadMay said:


> I wonder if the Arya wouldn't give you most of what the HD800 series gives for competitive gaming and add bass and immersion for non-competititve gaming and be better for more music genres.


The Arya is the only actual Headphone I've considered for so high a cost. But I just can't justify the price for any headphone. I spent nearly that much on a TH900, and I regretted it. Maybe if they were $1000 max.


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## AppleheadMay

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Arya is the only actual Headphone I've considered for so high a cost. But I just can't justify the price for any headphone. I spent nearly that much on a TH900, and I regretted it. Maybe if they were $1000 max.



Indeed, things are way overpriced in this hobby these days.
Having owned quite a few D7000 and TH-900, many of them modded, I do think the Arya would be in another league though.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I just can't find myself spending so much on my budget. Something I have disregarded too many times in my life.


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## Ichos

Excellent writing , thank you.

Just a note , not necessarily addressed specifically to your review.

I can't understand though - as an avid classical music listener - how it is the notion that bass light headphones are supposed to be suitable for classical music.
Well maybe for a flute and oboe duo they are but listening to full orchestral works or grand piano they still need all the necessary bass quantity to sound right.


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## kumar402 (Mar 22, 2021)

Just a question...why would you refuse to write a negative review. I guess negative review is as important as any other review and that too for a product that is above 1K USD. I can understand refraining from negative review for a product from small start up but drop and sennheiser are big players in this hobby and if they screw something it needs to be bought to notice.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Ichos said:


> Excellent writing , thank you.
> 
> Just a note , not necessarily addressed specifically to your review.
> 
> ...


Oh I would probably correct myself and say, SOME classical. I do agree with you. Still, the light airy sound really makes a lot of that sound fantastic.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2021)

kumar402 said:


> Just a question...why would you refuse to write a negative review. I guess negative review is as important as any other review and that too for a product that is above 1K USD. I can understand refraining from negative review for a product from small start up but drop and sennheiser are big players in this hobby and if they screw something it needs to be bought to notice.


I don't like to waste time on things I don't like. I'll leave that to other people. My writing process is stressful enough, I don't wanna have to go through that just for something I don't like.

Thankfully I haven't found anything from Drop or Sennheiser that makes me say I disliked it overall. Even though the 8XX isn't ideal for me, I'd certainly love to have one for competitive gaming, and for some other forms of media where I don't mind the lack of bass.


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## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Even though the 8XX isn't ideal for me, I'd certainly love to have one for competitive gaming, and for some other forms of media where I don't mind the lack of bass.



For competitive gaming I like the HD800S bass the way it is. For everything else... HDV820 DAC/AMP +5dB for the sub bass makes it perfect for me (even for EDM). If it would have more bass I would have to EQ it down while gaming. I just can't have everything without EQ.


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## AppleheadMay

Lay. said:


> For competitive gaming I like the HD800S bass the way it is. For everything else... HDV820 DAC/AMP +5dB for the sub bass makes it perfect for me (even for EDM). If it would have more bass I would have to EQ it down while gaming. I just can't have everything without EQ.


These Senn amps indeed match very well with their 800 series headphones. It's like they were tuned for them.
And that doesn't mean these amps don't play well with other phones either.
I used to have de HDVA600 and HDV820. Found the 600 for 450€ used at that time which was made it a really great value buy for such a good amp.


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## PureViewer4t1

@Mad Lust Envy A somewhat irrelevant question: any plans to review T1.3? I wonder if they suit your tastes better in the bass section and a comparison to 8XX would be absolutely appreciated!


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 22, 2021)

PureViewer4t1 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy A somewhat irrelevant question: any plans to review T1.3? I wonder if they suit your tastes better in the bass section and a comparison to 8XX would be absolutely appreciated!


If someone were willing to send it to me, and pay shipping both ways, I'd be down to try any headphone y'all want. I don't make money off this, hence why shipping must be both ways.


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## danterikxx

curious that you haven't tested the 560s for gaming, particularly for singe-player games (like those you mentioned in the 8xx review)


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## PureViewer4t1

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If someone were willing to send it to me, and pay shipping both ways, I'd be down to try any headphone y'all want. I don't make money off this, hence why shipping must be both ways.


I understand. If I could I definitely would. But that's just not an option for me. Not to mention I don't even have the T1.3. Let's see if anyone else is interested...


----------



## Fegefeuer

@kman1211  seems to be a nice guy willing to do it, but I could be wrongly remembering him owning a T1.3. He is deep into AKGs and Beyers.


----------



## Whitigir

Well, how does it compare to HD800S and Anniversary? Oh but who care ? I have both of them already.  I don’t think I need drops


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## Mad Lust Envy

Whitigir said:


> Well, how does it compare to HD800S and Anniversary? Oh but who care ? I have both of them already.  I don’t think I need drops


Yeah from what I hear of other people who tried it and have experience with the other ones, I don't think there's a reason to go for the 8XX if you already own one of the others. I think it's more for those who DON'T own those. You get a comparable variant for much cheaper.


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## tjlindle

I guess the last outstanding factor for me is how well they respond to EQ. A little low-end bump could either blow out the bass completely or it could give it what sounds like some much needed body. Also I'd say unless budget REALLY isn't a factor, this would probably be overkill for gaming, though its nice performance there is a good bonus on top of its other qualities.

I will keep it on my radar though because a lot of the things it does well are things that I enjoy in electrostats and I'm curious how it would really compete with midrange Stax at its price point, in terms of clarity, detail, and soundstage.


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## MattTCG

Thanks for the time and effort for the hd8xx "impressions." Actually, it helped me very much in my decision making process. Oh...the hd8xx probably doesn't feel lightweight because it's actually not 330 grams, it's 378. Most reviewers assume that it's what Sennhieser and others post on their website. It's not.


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## Racheski

I just weighed my 800S without cables and it came in at 370 grams (not the most accurate scale), but that's not close to 330g.  Where does Sennheiser come up with that number??


----------



## MattTCG

Racheski said:


> I just weighed my 800S without cables and it came in at 370 grams (not the most accurate scale), but that's not close to 330g.  Where does Sennheiser come up with that number??


The only thing that I can come up with is that they weighed them without...earpads and headband pad. And I guess that marketing 330 is easier than 375.


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## Racheski

MattTCG said:


> The only thing that I can come up with is that they weighed them without...earpads and headband pad. And I guess that marketing 330 is easier than 375.


Just wow.  Now I don't trust any manufacturer's stated weight.


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## kman1211 (Mar 23, 2021)

Fegefeuer said:


> @kman1211  seems to be a nice guy willing to do it, but I could be wrongly remembering him owning a T1.3. He is deep into AKGs and Beyers.



I think I would be willing to sometime pretty soon, likely probably during vacation as I won’t really be using them. Yes I do own a T1.3 and it’s my most used headphones, I’ve owned it since it was released. I normally would’ve reviewed them by now but I haven’t been motivated in regards to doing headphone reviews lately, I have numerous headphones on backlog I’ve been meaning to review but haven’t gotten to it. Still haven’t reviewed my T1.2 or RR 1 estat both of which I’ve been meaning to review for a while now.

It’s quite a different sounding headphone and requires a bit of time to get a good feel of and settle into; expect more warmth than you ever experienced with a Beyer, it’s warmer sounding than the Nighthawk to give an indication of how warm it sounds but it’s notably more resolving, refined, detailed, and textured than the Hawks and yes it’s imaging and soundstaging is excellent.

May send my modified DT 480 as well; while it’s not a currently made headphone I have been wanting to let others try it and offer opinions and criticisms of it as it’s been a modding project of mine for a while. I think will it offer an unique experience as nothing else I’ve heard sounds like it, it’s driver is something else.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I love warm headphones, and I like Beyers lol.

I mean I'm open to many types of sounds in general.

Hell my fave for a long while was the DT990 600ohm, and that may be just as polarizing if not more than the HD800 class.

You wanna talk about an easy EQ? Just notch down that very tall, very narrow treble peak. And even knowing that, I kept it as is, no EQ. 😬


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## Qupie (Mar 23, 2021)

I am kind of letting go of getting 5.1 out of my PS5 with all sorts of HDMI audio toslink extractor shenanigans. I am just going to get stereo with a good dac/amp.

So now I am looking for a good dac/amp that works with PS5, but is also good for music listening.

I have a pair of PC38x, Audioquest nightowls and might pick up some planars down the road.

At this point I am in between a few devices. I am leaning towards the mayflower arc 2, since it seems to have a decent dac, decent amp, headphone input and works with PS5. Does anyone have experience with it? Are there better options? I know I would get more bang for my buck if I get a seperate dac and amp, but those won't include a mic input. I could of course plug the mic in my controller, but after years of mixamps, I am not looking to have anything plugged in my controller honestly. 

The x7 is on sale (250), but I don't think that is going to work with PS5 (in the future) right? The G6 sadly isn't on sale, and 150 seems a hefty price if I am not going to use any of the surround settings. 

Another option might be a very cheap gamer dac that works with PS5 (or 3.5 mic input to USB converter?), and a dac/amp stack for my PC. That way I can use the amp for both dacs, and still have high quality music listening on my PC.

Would love to hear what my options are at this point. Have done a lot of research, but most of those threads are outdated at this point (and/or advice UAC2 stuff like the schiit hell)


----------



## tmaxx123

Noice review MLE!
 I’ve been really happy with my current setup, and haven’t had an itch to upgrade until reading your latest 8xx review. X7 limited , full sparkos, ad2000x, lifatec toslink, ps5 (mostly playing competitive CoD).

Any insight on how the 8xx performs on the x7? Or if the upgrade from ad2000x to 8xx would even be worth it for competitive play?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I don't know much if anything about those AD2000X's bvut knowing Audio Technica, I probably don't think you'd need to upgrade.

As for the 8XX on the X7... mmm, I think the 8XX would like a little more than that, but I thought it siounded fine off a Schiit Hel as far as lower power goes, so the X7 would be ok too, though I definitely think they deserve more.


----------



## Qupie

@Mad Lust Envy I was reading back the past 100 pages and found your posts about streaming and YouTube. I don't know where you currently stand on the whole YouTube thing, but I absolutely think you could gain a big presence on there in very short time. 

I have been following your YouTube for years hoping you start to make video's. Don't be afraid you are "copying" anyone's style, even if you use a similar camera technique or something. You are already unique in the way you view audio and especially audio for gaming. I mean, do you see the length of this thread? There is only 1 reason this thread has 3102 pages, and that is you. You should do what feels most comfortable to you, but you would have at least one supporter right here.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Qupie said:


> @Mad Lust Envy I was reading back the past 100 pages and found your posts about streaming and YouTube. I don't know where you currently stand on the whole YouTube thing, but I absolutely think you could gain a big presence on there in very short time.
> 
> I have been following your YouTube for years hoping you start to make video's. Don't be afraid you are "copying" anyone's style, even if you use a similar camera technique or something. You are already unique in the way you view audio and especially audio for gaming. I mean, do you see the length of this thread? There is only 1 reason this thread has 3102 pages, and that is you. You should do what feels most comfortable to you, but you would have at least one supporter right here.


I really appreciate that. It's been something nagging at me for a long time, even from my best friends. I just... it's a mental, and personal block. I'll have to do something eventually.


----------



## Chastity

Qupie said:


> The x7 is on sale (250), but I don't think that is going to work with PS5 (in the future) right? The G6 sadly isn't on sale, and 150 seems a hefty price if I am not going to use any of the surround settings.


Creative sells the refurbs of the G6 for $80, and then you can apply any current promo to that.  The refurbs work, a lot of times they are from returns because users are nitwits.


----------



## illram

I used the 800S on the X7 for a while for gaming. 100% Surround setting, small bass EQ bump for some games. It was great. Used it more recently with the S-XFi dongle, also for gaming, also great. I'll rotate my headphones once in a while just to mix it up and I always come back to the 800S as the best for virtual surround DSP purposes.

I forget if I posted my rant about these on Drop, but I would personally just look for the 800 or 800S used, ideally with the balanced cable, as the Drop version does not include it and brand new from Senn that cable is like $300 or something absurd. So even at MSRP you're not saving as much when you factor that in. Also although I value what Drop is doing in the HP market generally...I don't necessarily trust their tuning over the Senn factory tuning of these cans, which have held their ground as top of the line dynamics for many many years. Do they really need Drop to tune their drivers? Meh. Seems like marketing gimmick shenanigans. Admittedly I have not tried the 8XX yet but still...I guess I'm in the minority but I don't know why anyone would get these over the real McCoy unless they really really want to only buy new and don't care about the balanced cable.


----------



## AudioManNewb

I play a game called Hunt Showdown and I'm looking for a closed back specifically made or that works well with binaural audio. The only thing I have found that was made was the Final Audio VR3000 which did sound great but the fit did not work for me.


----------



## NeilPeart

My HD800 came with just a single-ended cable and I made my own 4-pin XLR cable from that.  I even made an 4-pin to single-ended adapter using the removed 1/4" section and a female 4pin.  The parts cost was reasonable and the work took less than a couple of hours.  Of course it would be preferable if this came with a balanced cable like the 800S but the price is pretty fair considering you get $200 in credit (if you shop at Drop, of course).


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I really appreciate that. It's been something nagging at me for a long time, even from my best friends. I just... it's a mental, and personal block. I'll have to do something eventually.


Do it man if the content is good everything else that comes with making one you will learn on the way. Also just watch others and pick and choose what they do that you like and make it your own.


----------



## kman1211

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I love warm headphones, and I like Beyers lol.
> 
> I mean I'm open to many types of sounds in general.
> 
> ...


Oh you'll probably really like the T1.3. Have you heard the T1.2? It's also warm but it's not as bassy and a bit brighter with a softer sound presentation than the T1.3. My main headphones before I got the T1.3 was the T1.2 for almost two years, which I still have and listen to. One minor complaint I have about the T1's is the headbands can have cosmetic issues after a year or so of use (sometimes earlier), especially if one heavily uses them like I do. The earpads hold up amazingly well though and I've forever been spoiled by their comfort at least for my head. 

I like a lot of sound signatures myself and willing to try different stuff as sometimes you like something you may not expect.

The DT 990 600 Ohm is an excellent headphone, no slouch technically and it's easy to EQ it's problem spot like you said.


----------



## Pirastro

Chastity said:


> @Mad Lust Envy You didn't mention anything about it's intimacy abilities.


Yeah, I also heard that they are good in bed.


----------



## Lay.

Pirastro said:


> Yeah, I also heard that they are good in bed.


They are excellent if you want to spend some romantic time in Verdansk.


----------



## Chastity

Pirastro said:


> Yeah, I also heard that they are good in bed.


imagines Pirastro slapping the D's up against his head  (cue Zeos)

(for those who don't know, the cups on the HD800 series are D shaped)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 24, 2021)

https://www.schiit.com/products/hel-2

It's HERE!

Schiit Hel 2, 20% more power (I hearthey're being conservative and should be closer to 50% IIRC), UAC1/2 meaning pS5 support, USB, AND optical input. And STILL has the mic input.

This is gonna be the one boys and girls, I feel it. Assuming y'all don't want the G6 and its SBX.

I'm biased and I love my Schiit, but I'll still be receiving one, and try to be objective. Lol.


----------



## PopZeus

I don't even need the Hel 2, but I kinda want one anyways. WTH is wrong with me?!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 24, 2021)

Schiit does that to me all the time.

Hell, the Hel I have atm is ONLY used for the mic input, since of course I use my Modius as my DAC, and Jotunheim 2 as my amp. But now, replacing the Hel with a Hel 2, I can use the Hel 2 as my PS5 DAC, to send one of the the Jot 2's RCA inputs (I have two). So more use.

It won't replace the G6 for my TV since I still need 5.1 to SBX surround, but other than that, the G6 will be getting replaced for everything else.


----------



## Qupie (Mar 24, 2021)

Damn that is great news! I was looking into all kind of solutions, ending up with the same problems over and over again

- Mayflower is kind of outdated/overpriced nowadays
- Atom stack is expensive in europe AND I would need to still use my mixamp for mic input into PS5
- E30/L30 combo with HDMI extractor, which is extremely hard to figure out if they add significant input delay (why nobody tests these is beyond me honestly, there is a huge market for them with this console generation).

The Hel 2 might solve all of that! I hope it can beat (or equal) the Atom stack on sound quality!

p.s. I have seen some questions on here before, if you can use 2 USB audio devices on PS5, 1 for mic input and 1 for audio output, and you can! Tried yesterday with my mixamp and fiio E18.


----------



## Dixter

would be really interesting if Drop would send the 8xx out for reviews and at the same time send out a normal set of HD800 to actually compare the 8xx to....  Drop could have easily just changed the color of the ear cup ring to blue and said they tuned it and the reviewers would not notice a difference...  kinda like looking a a LG TV vs a Sony TV without having them side by side....  they both look great, its just that you have to get them side by side to actually tell the difference...  same with ALL HD800 variants...


----------



## ronfifer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Schiit does that to me all the time.
> 
> Hell, the Hel I have atm is ONLY used for the mic input, since of course I use my Modius as my DAC, and Jotunheim 2 as my amp. But now, replacing the Hel with a Hel 2, I can use the Hel 2 as my PS5 DAC, to send one of the the Jot 2's RCA inputs (I have two). So more use.
> 
> It won't replace the G6 for my TV since I still need 5.1 to SBX surround, but other than that, the G6 will be getting replaced for everything else.


And software VSS for PC? which one?


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It won't replace the G6 for my TV since I still need 5.1 to SBX surround, but other than that, the G6 will be getting replaced for everything else.


Maybe it's time for Creative to come up with new and improved G7...


----------



## Chastity (Mar 24, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Maybe it's time for Creative to come up with new and improved G7...


I think Creative needs update SBX or get SXFi on more items, and allow SXFi over digital connections.  As long as those rear cues are ill-formed, SBX will not be in my arsenal.


----------



## Evshrug

Dixter said:


> would be really interesting if Drop would send the 8xx out for reviews and at the same time send out a normal set of HD800 to actually compare the 8xx to....  Drop could have easily just changed the color of the ear cup ring to blue and said they tuned it and the reviewers would not notice a difference...  kinda like looking a a LG TV vs a Sony TV without having them side by side....  they both look great, its just that you have to get them side by side to actually tell the difference...  same with ALL HD800 variants...


I have an HD 800, and Drop just reached out to me to demo the HD 8xx. I’m not sure when it will arrive, but I’ll be coming from 6 years of HD 800 experience (before I started doing part time consulting work for Sennheiser... so I won’t be doing recommendations, just descriptions and comparisons).

I do think Mad’s review is useful though. He may not have the context of the HD 800 or HD 800S, but he does have the context of a huge variety of headphones and I believe over 11 years of experience writing reviews. Plus, it’s always helpful to have more data points (more reviews) on a headphone so that you can look at the big picture 🙂


----------



## Qupie

Just ordered the Hel 2. I will post a small review once I get it (to Europe....) 

Will pair it with PS5, PC38x and Audioquest Nightowls


----------



## Azzurro (Mar 25, 2021)

Qupie said:


> Just ordered the Hel 2. I will post a small review once I get it (to Europe....)
> 
> Will pair it with PS5, PC38x and Audioquest Nightowls



Am I not correct in saying that the HEL2 will not work with the PS5 because Sony are using the original audio profile and the HEL2 is on the 2.0 profile?

EDIT: Ignore me, just seen it has UAC1/2 compatibility... dammit, tempting lol


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Just ordered the Hel 2. I will post a small review once I get it (to Europe....)
> 
> Will pair it with PS5, PC38x and Audioquest Nightowls


My backordered Hel got upgraded to a Hel 2. I plan to run it with a PC38x as well, but on PC.


----------



## Qupie

Awesome! Do you have any clue how long it is going to take? I have been checking their reddit and stuff, and got kind of scared of production times. But I don't mind if it is going to take a month (or 2), but after checking reddit I am afraid it will take 6 lol.... I hope it is a vocal minority there


----------



## Azzurro

I've ordered mine today too (shipping to the UK).

Their website does say new orders will be shipped in 7-10 days.

Fingers crossed


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Awesome! Do you have any clue how long it is going to take? I have been checking their reddit and stuff, and got kind of scared of production times. But I don't mind if it is going to take a month (or 2), but after checking reddit I am afraid it will take 6 lol.... I hope it is a vocal minority there


I inquired about my unit, which is a backorder. The response:

_"They are currently in production but it will take time to fill all the backorders. Hopefully within the next 7-10 business days."_

I take this to mean that they're filling backorders (like mine) first, and then in 7-10 business days they will begin to fill new orders. I guess you could order and get in the queue. The charge was pending on my card almost immediately. Not sure if the charge will post when it ships or if that card is just slow to post (it usually is).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 26, 2021)

So a close friend of mine loaned out their Razer Blackshark V2 to me. It comes with a usb dongle that has THX Spatial Audio. Even if the device reads a 7.1 speakers, its virtual surround cues are no bueno. So the dongle is...inconsequential to me. I mean it gets you to use the Razer Synapse software which will open up a lot of options, like bass boost, EQ, and mic enhancing options, but I'm not one for those things.

1st impressions:

1. Holy hell they're light, and very, VERY comfortable.
2. Mic quality is very good. Much better than I anticipated.
3. Headset sound is actually really good! V shaped with warm midbass and punchiness, and sparkly treble. A little sizzle up top but nothing too crazy. A very enjoyable, energetic sound. This may be early on, but I'm certain this is a winner for their price. Seems to go around $75 atm. The only thing that'd make me wary is comparing it to a SHP9500 or 9600 in this price bracket. I dunno though. Those are open backed headphones, so the Blackshark V2 may have an advantage for those that need isolation and keep quiet in the immediate vicinity.


I plan to do a review. We'll see.

Glad to go back to a budget option. It's been awhile. Happy I did.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

She's here!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She's here!


Wow, the same day you get the Schiit Hel, my Schiit Fulla 3 stopped working, wonder if it's Karma?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She's here!


Wow. Times like these I wish I wasn’t in the UK. Going to get one of these but shipping time/cost and customs charges makes me think waiting is the best idea!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PurpleAngel said:


> Wow, the same day you get the Schiit Hel, my Schiit Fulla 3 stopped working, wonder if it's Karma?


Aw, what happened to it?


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So a close friend of mine loaned out their Razer Blackshark V2 to me. It comes with a usb dongle that has THX Spatial Audio. Even if the device reads a 7.1 speakers, its virtual surround cues are no bueno. So the dongle is...inconsequential to me. I mean it gets you to use the Razer Synapse software which will open up a lot of options, like bass boost, EQ, and mic enhancing options, but I'm not one for those things.
> 
> 1st impressions:
> 
> ...


Any plans to compare to PC37X / PC38X?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 26, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Any plans to compare to PC37X / PC38X?


No comparison. For one, I don't have either of those headsets. I don't wanna put comparisons especially when I don't have the products. If you can afford the PC38X, that is the headset to get. No question.

The Blackshark V2 is great for its price, but it's tuned very differently from those (less balanced, more fun-tuned and not as serious), is closed back, and about half the price if not less so. There is no comparison, either way. Get the PC38X if you can afford it.


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Wondering if you're still better off with a Modi/Magni stack, considering the price is the same. Sure, you don't get the mic knob, but the Magni is still more powerful than the Hel 2 amp. Hm, I think I would have to compare them side by side.


----------



## Playstation (Mar 26, 2021)

-


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Blackshark V2 is great for its price, but it's tuned very differently from those (less balanced, more fun-tuned and not as serious), is closed back, and about half the price if not less so.


Is that the one?  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/razer-...esports-headset-black/6417114.p?skuId=6417114
$49.99 on BestBuy...


----------



## kman1211

Rhadamanthys said:


> Wondering if you're still better off with a Modi/Magni stack, considering the price is the same. Sure, you don't get the mic knob, but the Magni is still more powerful than the Hel 2 amp. Hm, I think I would have to compare them side by side.


Who knows, haven't tried the Hel or Hel 2 but have been thinking about getting one for my gaming laptop. If I ever do, I would compare it to my Magni Heresy, Modius, and a Asgard 3 Multibit. I am mostly curious how the amp in the Hel 2 compares to the Magni Heresy and Magni 3+. 

The Asgard 3 sounds a lot better than the Magni Heresy imho, and I honestly highly suggest saving a bit to get the Asgard 3 instead. Haven't compared the Magni 3+ and the Heresy no idea on that. Had a Lyr 3 and a Bifrost 2. Loved the Bifrost 2 but had to sell it, but the Lyr 3 I actually like a little less than the Asgard 3, just like the presentation of the Asgard 3 more as the Asgard 3 is the only Schiit amp I've heard without the slight upper midrange glare Schiit amps have. The Lyr 3 has it slightly as does the Magni Heresy. I find the multibit module sounds better than the Modius overall imho, depth, texture, treble and imaging is better and it causes less listening fatigue with long listening sessions and long-term ownership. I found once you go Multibit/R2R it's hard to go back. I have gone back to delta-sigma dacs and it always feels like something is missing, especially if it's been a long time since owning a multibit and when you go back you're satisfied again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 26, 2021)

Zachik said:


> Is that the one?  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/razer-...esports-headset-black/6417114.p?skuId=6417114
> $49.99 on BestBuy...


That's the V2 X. The V2 is the higher end model. I know, you'd think it'd be the other way around. I have the V2. NOT the V2 X.

Of course the Magni/Modi is better than the Hel.

The Hel is if you want a mic input, and the ability to use it with the PS5, which the Modi can't do. It's also just one unit, and more portable.


----------



## Trancefreak

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's the V2 X. The V2 is the higher end model. I know, you'd think it'd be the other way around. I have the V2. NOT the V2 X.
> 
> Of course the Magni/Modi is better than the Hel.
> 
> The Hel is if you want a mic input, and the ability to use it with the PS5, which the Modi can't do. It's also just one unit, and more portable.


I'd have to look it up, but the Hel and Modi had the same DAC, I think. The biggest difference would be that the Magni had more power?
And no Optical S/PDIF ofc.
Not sure what route DAC they went with the Hel2. Lemme see.


----------



## BIG POPPA

With out scrolling through a bunch of pages, what gear was used and what cables used in Review rig? Like to make sense of review. TIA


----------



## JES

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She's here!


I'm jealous that you got one already! I ordered on the 21st. I've been running my new PC38X direct from my gaming laptop's headset jack and am very impressed. I'm anxious to find out about sound and microphone performance when I run through this instead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2021)

BIG POPPA said:


> With out scrolling through a bunch of pages, what gear was used and what cables used in Review rig? Like to make sense of review. TIA


I don't believe in cables, but Modius to Jotunheim 2 via Schiit PYST XLR. 8XX ran through SE since I didn't have a balanced cable for it. Considering the SE is very subtly warmer and more relaxed than balanced, I'd think the 8XX would sound even more detailed and energetic up toptop in balanced. It wouldn't change the outcome on my thoughts though. With my other headphones, going balanced vs SE didn't change their nature enough to change anything in my impressions on a headphone. I'd just be having impressions of the amp by that point, not the Headphone.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't believe in cables, but Modius to Jotunheim 2 via Schiit PYST XLR. 8XX ran through SE since I didn't have a balanced cable for it. Considering the SE is very subtly warmer and more relaxed than balanced, I'd think the 8XX would sound even more detailed and energetic up toptop in balanced. It wouldn't change the outcome on my thoughts though. With my other headphones, going balanced vs SE didn't change their nature enough to change anything in my impressions on a headphone. I'd just be having impressions of the amp by that point, not the Headphone.


Thx, the gear did not give the reviewer a fair idea what those cans can do, I use an ALO 18awg Cryo'd Senn cable. a tricked out SinglePower MPX3(Kenrad VT231 pretube, Sylvania 6SN7 power tubes) with Lundahl transformer rewired with Cryo'd wire and Solen caps and Furutech RCA's, all my cables pretty insane. Yes tuned my rig for the HD800's. I like Schiit gear, but for those cans, those are toys IMO. OTLs like the Darkvoice 336i is where I would started to give these cans a fair chance.


----------



## kman1211 (Mar 28, 2021)

BIG POPPA said:


> Thx, the gear did not give the reviewer a fair idea what those cans can do, I use an ALO 18awg Cryo'd Senn cable. a tricked out SinglePower MPX3(Kenrad VT231 pretube, Sylvania 6SN7 power tubes) with Lundahl transformer rewired with Cryo'd wire and Solen caps and Furutech RCA's, all my cables pretty insane. Yes tuned my rig for the HD800's. I like Schiit gear, but for those cans, those are toys IMO. OTLs like the Darkvoice 336i is where I would started to give these cans a fair chance.



Honestly in my experience you don’t truly experience the true potential of the HD 800 or the HD 600/650 unless you try them on a nice OTL amp which I was able to listen to for a while thanks to a friend, I finally understood the Senns praise then, good otl amps work some weird magic on many Senns. You hear people say get good OTL’s for the Senns and there is a reason for that. A big reason I never got an HD 800 and why I never kept the HD 600/650 long term is because I’m not a big fan of them otherwise. If I ever get a nice OTL I’m getting an HD 600/650 ASAP maybe even an HD 800/S.

One reason I went the Beyer route because I found them to play with SS and hybrid amps better than high impedance Senns in general even the 600 Ohm variants and I’m more familiar with how Beyers react to gear changes than Senns. Though I can say Beyers adore multibit/R2R dacs maybe moreso than Senns even. Kind of interesting experiencing how different headphones react to different gear, it's not always straightforward. For example my HD 560 S can sound freakishly narrow on some systems and it's not really clear on why, it's never been the widest sounding headphone it's strengths lies more in positioning/imaging but on some systems it literally sounded like a ball of sound within my head, a sensation I don't think I've ever experience before.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2021)

You guys are overstating how much headphones change by your snake oil cables and dac/amps. Even off an entry level amp/dac you get the gist out of any headphone that doesn't require a power plant.

You wanna dismiss my review because I didn't review them to your specifications, that's great, but hyperbolic statements like "OMG YOU DIDN'T EVEN HEAR THE 8XX WITH YOUR GEAR YOU HAVE TO USE X amp or Y dac", is ridiculous, and justification bias.

The gear didn't give me a fair idea? Give me a break. I'm reviewing the headphone, not the combination of what you think is the best possible synergistic combo for them. If anything the Jot2 SE HELPED the bad qualities on it.

Lets just discredit every review out there that doesn't use what you think they should use, because of some magical drastic transformation that headphones go through.

In the decade+ of me using a variety of different amps/dacs and upgrading and downgrading, no headphone regardless of current or voltage requirements or sensitivity has ever, ever done anything but done subtle changes. This is a game of subtleties. Subtle enough that people, even manufacturers of amps/dacs fail their own tests.

You wanna spend $500 on fancy snakeskin diamond venom cables or whatever, please, do you. But don't ever expect logical people to think it's going to transform a headphone to some magical version of it. If anything, an SS amp helps people understand what a headphone is expected to sound like by default. Getting an OTL amp or whatever will help shave off whatever issues you may have with it, but then you're correcting for the headphone, not listening to the headphone how it sounds off most gear.


----------



## BIG POPPA

kman1211 said:


> Honestly in my experience you don’t truly experience the true potential of the HD 800 or the HD 600/650 unless you try them on a nice OTL amp which I was able to listen to for a while thanks to a friend, I finally understood the Senns praise then, good otl amps work some weird magic on many Senns. You hear people say get good OTL’s for the Senns and there is a reason for that. A big reason I never got an HD 800 and why I never kept the HD 600/650 long term is because I’m not a big fan of them otherwise. If I ever get a nice OTL I’m getting an HD 600/650 ASAP maybe even an HD 800/S. Once reason I went the Beyer route because I found them to play with SS and hybrid amps better than high impedance Senns in general even the 600 Ohm variants and I’m more familiar with how Beyers react to gear changes than Senns. The HD 660 S sounds great on SS gear though and I personally suggest it over the HD 600/650 for most SS amps. Though I can say Beyers adore multibit/R2R dacs maybe moreso than Senns even. Kinda interesting experiencing how different headphones react to different gear.


HD660's are 150ohms, yes they work better mostly with Solid State.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> You guys are overstating how much headphones change by your snake oil cables and dac/amps. Even off an entry level amp/dac you get the gist out of any headphone that doesn't require a power plant.
> 
> You wanna dismiss my review because I didn't review them to your specifications, that's great, but hyperbolic statements like OMG YOU DIDN'T EVEN HEAR THE 800S WITH YOUR GEAR YOU HAVE TO USE X amp or Y dac, is ridiculous, and justification bias.
> 
> ...


I get your point, also have to understand that you have to have revealing gear to get cables benefit. 2, understand the technology behind the cables, the mettalurgy, the dielectric, the processes like cryoing and burning in with a cooker or tesla coil. If you are going to stay in the entry market of gear, stay where you are at. The HD8xx do not deserve such humiliation. It deserves better gear to shine.


----------



## kman1211 (Mar 28, 2021)

BIG POPPA said:


> HD660's are 150ohms, yes they work better mostly with Solid State.


Yet the T1.2 which is 600 Ohm with a big impedance bump in the bass of near 1400 Ohm and the DT 880/990 600 Ohm work better than the HD 600/650 and HD 800 with SS gear imho. Some of my favorite systems on the 600 Ohm Beyers were SS whereas it wasn’t quite the case on the 300 Ohm Senns. But Beyers behave differently on amplification for whatever reason. It’s more than just the impedance, some reason high impedance Senns in particular love OTL amps moreso than just about any other dynamic headphone.


----------



## BIG POPPA

kman1211 said:


> Yet the T1.2 which is 600 Ohm with a big impedance bump in the bass of near 1400 Ohm and the DT 880/990 600 Ohm work better than the HD 600/650 and HD 800 with SS gear imho. Some of my favorite systems on the 600 Ohm Beyers were SS whereas it wasn’t quite the case on the 300 Ohm Senns. But Beyers behave differently on amplification for whatever reason. It’s more than just the impedance, some reason high impedance Senns in particular love OTL amps moreso than just about any other dynamic headphone.


Hell yeah, totally agree with the 600 ohm T1v2, Beyers are Engineer grade cans, different animal. But dig them !!!!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Revealing gear? The Modius is very neutral and accurate. Tell me you're gonna dismiss it because I need a $2000dac before anything I say is taken seriously.


The Jot 2 is SS. It's on the warmer side/more relaxed but SUBTLY so. Again, that should actually BENEFIT the 8XX which I found very revealing and open, and super clear. What do you want? More revealing amp that would make it even more open and clear and spacious? It's the same assessment I've already made.

Oh, you want an OTL amp that's gonna make them fuller, warmer, richer than how it sounds off a driven enough SS amp? Great, but then you're reviewing the amp's quality and not the Headphone.

Anyways, I'm done. It's this type of elitist nitpicking that makes me wanna stop reviewing again.


----------



## BIG POPPA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Revealing gear? The Modius is very neutral and accurate. Tell me you're gonna dismiss it because I need a $2000dac before anything I say is taken seriously.
> 
> 
> The Jot 2 is SS. It's on the warmer side/more relaxed but SUBTLY so. Again, that should actually BENEFIT the 8XX which I found very revealing and open, and super clear. What do you want? More revealing amp that would make it even more open and clear and spacious? It's the same assessment I've already made.
> ...


Please get a few Head-fiers together a mini-meet , secret meet or what ever. Display your hypothesis with a crowd, see what happens.  If you are in the Pacific NorthWest. I can set it up. You get a few Eddie Current amps, a few other Senn 300ohm centric amps, a few Yggys and Kitsune Dac's in the mix. Hear the difference, The Jot is still a toy amp in the scope of things. The HD-8xx's need some real gear. The last in-person meet I had on 3-7-2020 the HD-800's was hooked up to the Viva 845 headphone amp. Those were mine. Please understand my point on these cans.


----------



## kman1211 (Mar 28, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Revealing gear? The Modius is very neutral and accurate. Tell me you're gonna dismiss it because I need a $2000dac before anything I say is taken seriously.
> 
> 
> The Jot 2 is SS. It's on the warmer side/more relaxed but SUBTLY so. Again, that should actually BENEFIT the 8XX which I found very revealing and open, and super clear. What do you want? More revealing amp that would make it even more open and clear and spacious? It's the same assessment I've already made.
> ...


To be honest the difference on some of the gear was depressing as I know I wouldn’t ever be able to afford it. But on the other side a lot of gear is horribly overpriced gear whose performance doesn’t meet the price and are an elitist flaunting of wealth. There is also so much conflicting information and impressions it can make it hard to figure out what’s truly good for what you pay and what path to even take on gear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2021)

Again I've owned various gear throughout the years including tube amplifiers. Regardless of whatever you want to improve a headphone, a headphone is still a headphone with an inherent quality to it. You're then peppering it with tweaks that can improve their inherent sound, but it's still unmistakably the same headphone, just with those tweaks done by the gear.

I'm reviewing a headphone and its INHERENT traits, not what you think will change it to suit your preference.

That's why I've gone back and stuck to SS amps. I don't have time to nitpick the gear that people think will magically alter the INHERENT traits to whatever they deem the "True Sound"

Anyways, this is a gaming headphone thread. You wanna discuss the intricacies on what you feel tube amps do, go do it on a tube amp thread. I don't really care. I've rated the 8XX as potentially one of the very best for certain aspects of gaming. Changing my amp or dac isn't gonna change that. I'm done with topic. You don't wanna accept my review, please go somewhere else to someone that will do it the way you want. I'll remain blissfully ignorant with my Modius and Jot 2


----------



## trix3072

Mad Lust Envy said:


> And I've never really used that metric for my reviews.
> 
> The 8XX isn't intimate. Not to me. The 6XX, the LCD2 are intimate. The 8XX, nope. The soundstaging section would be b enough to let people know that. It's really open and spacious. That's the polar opposite of intimate to me. For someone else, sure whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Also, I was bound to miss some things. I was under a very strict time limit, so I did what I could.


Hey MLE, have you tried applying DSP processings on the 8XX? Could they enhance 8XX's soundstage or imaging from these? Or do they ruin the imaging?
Also, I want to know about your experience in "Crossfeed" of some DACs and AMPs like the Monolith THX DAC+AMP, the ADI 2...etc. or the 3D of ifi audio products. Looing forward to your review. Thanks


----------



## BIG POPPA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Again I've owned various gear throughout the years including tube amplifiers. Regardless of whatever you want to improve a headphone, a headphone is still a headphone with an inherent quality to it. You're then peppering it with tweaks that can improve their inherent sound, but it's still unmistakably the same headphone, just with those tweaks done by the gear.
> 
> I'm reviewing a headphone and its INHERENT traits, not what you think will change it to suit your preference.
> 
> ...


My bad on your gaming thread. Thought it was a straight up review. Did not notice the perimeters. Just a straight up Senn fan.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 28, 2021)

trix3072 said:


> Hey MLE, have you tried applying DSP processings on the 8XX? Could they enhance 8XX's soundstage or imaging from these? Or do they ruin the imaging?
> Also, I want to know about your experience in "Crossfeed" of some DACs and AMPs like the Monolith THX DAC+AMP, the ADI 2...etc. or the 3D of ifi audio products. Looing forward to your review. Thanks


I used virtual surround dsps with the 8XX. The very open, and highly detailed nature of them responded incredibly well with Redscape's surround algorithm and Creative's SBX. Sony's Tempest 3D audio (PS5) worked extremely well. I don't have my Dolby Headphone device, as I gave it to a friend, but I'm certain it'd do excellently with that as well. I'd expect the same for Sennheiser's GSX.

I've never used crossfade settings at length other than a long time ago, so I can't say.


----------



## Trancefreak

People need to understand that most recording studio's and certainly gaming studio's don't use high-end *home use* gear and cables.
They use *professional* high end gear, with different goals and design characteristics.

I fail to understand how Tubes and these high end cables can 'reveal' details in sound that never got trough the cable connecting the microphone to the recording equipment.
You're hearing things that were never there. They might change sound to your preference, and sound fantastic in unison with the playback gear you have, sure, but they simply cannot reveal 'details' that were never there since the whole sound source to driver chain isn't homogeneous.

We end up having better sound equipment than the recording equiment some recording studio's ever had...


----------



## Qupie

Damn that sidestep was completely unnecessary LMAO. Didn't know gate keeping was so bad in the audio world nowadays. 
If only people understood physics they would know the effect of expensive cables is insignificant at best.  

Back on topic, how are you liking the Hel MLE? 

Does it have a workaround for the playstation audio bug? (aka input volume is at ~20%, so you need to set the volume a lot higher than expected / other source). 
I am curious if this is going to drive hard to drive headphones. Ordered mine last week, but I am afraid it will take weeks / months before I get it to EU.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Qupie said:


> Damn that sidestep was completely unnecessary LMAO. Didn't know gate keeping was so bad in the audio world nowadays.
> If only people understood physics they would know the effect of expensive cables is insignificant at best.
> 
> Back on topic, how are you liking the Hel MLE?
> ...


I'll have time to mess with it tomorrow and Tuesday. Haven't messed with it much yet.

Is that why dac/amps need so much volume? I didn't know it was a bug.  Is there a potential fix for this outside of blasting amp volume?


----------



## DenverW

I have my thoughts on the Senn/tube debate, but since that's for a whole different thread I'll instead ask if there are plans to review the emu-teaks?  I really enjoy them for gaming, curious where you'd place them !


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

DenverW said:


> I have my thoughts on the Senn/tube debate, but since that's for a whole different thread I'll instead ask if there are plans to review the emu-teaks?  I really enjoy them for gaming, curious where you'd place them !


They're mine, and I'll likely get around to it at some point, sooner than later. First comes the Hel 2, then the Blackshark V2. After that, we'll see how I feel.


----------



## danterikxx

Qupie said:


> I am kind of letting go of getting 5.1 out of my PS5 with all sorts of HDMI audio toslink extractor shenanigans. I am just going to get stereo with a good dac/amp.
> 
> So now I am looking for a good dac/amp that works with PS5, but is also good for music listening.
> 
> ...



i have the X7 and it works on the PS5....with a HDMI audio extractor, through optical. Not USB

apparently the new Schiit Hel 2 supports the PS5 even with USB, so you might want to look into that


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sure does. Haven't gotten around to testing it, but no reason to think otherwise. Schiit specifically mentioned the PS5 as the reason there is a UAC1/UAC auto switch on the unit. I'll test it tomorrow. For now, bed time.


----------



## DenverW

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They're mine, and I'll likely get around to it at some point, sooner than later. First comes the Hel 2, then the Blackshark V2. After that, we'll see how I feel.



The fact that they're yours makes me feel they'll rate well .  I wish I hadn't sold my Sony Z7M2; I feel like they had good gaming performance and i'd like to compare them to the teaks.  I remember just feeling that musically the teaks were better, and I just didnt give the sony's a fair shake with gaming.  Now I regret it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

They're super fun and immersive. That's what I wanted first and foremost.


----------



## Chastity (Mar 28, 2021)

FYI for Redscape owners, it's up to 1.3.9.   Settings - About - Check For Update

Not sure if the app autochecks.  Updated me from 1.36 to 1.39.  His Version List is also a bit outdated, last update is 1.30.


----------



## UrsusMajor (Mar 28, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You guys are overstating how much headphones change by your snake oil cables and dac/amps. Even off an entry level amp/dac you get the gist out of any headphone that doesn't require a power plant.
> 
> You wanna dismiss my review because I didn't review them to your specifications, that's great, but hyperbolic statements like "OMG YOU DIDN'T EVEN HEAR THE 8XX WITH YOUR GEAR YOU HAVE TO USE X amp or Y dac", is ridiculous, and justification bias.
> 
> ...



This is why I'm so apprehensive about buying the HDV820.
Whether the price hike is justified by what might possibly be a minuscule diminished return.

But another part of me is curious to try out what Axel Grell's talented team at Senn believed brought out the very best of the HD800S - and how much exactly it differs from my entry-level Schiit stack


----------



## Lay.

UrsusMajor said:


> This is why I'm so apprehensive about buying the HDV820.
> Whether the price hike is justified by what might possibly be a minuscule diminished return.
> 
> But another part of me is curious to try out what Axel Grell's talented team at Senn believed brought out the very best of the HD800S - and how much exactly it differs from my entry-level Schiit stack



The only person in the whole universe that can tell you if the difference is worth the price is you.

Diminishing returns? For shure. I would even argue that you can find diminishing returns between HD 598 and HD 800S for gaming. The gaming experience is not 10 times better. Is it worth for me considering the price. Yes (since I like them for music). Is it worth for someone else? I really can't tell that and nobody can. For most of my gaming friends I would guess it is not worth it but we are not like the most of people here in Head-Fi.


----------



## ronfifer

We should do this exercise where we identify the little brother of the HD800S in terms of competitive gaming in lower price brackets.

Who is the HD800S's little brother between:

A. $150-$300 ?
B. $300-$500 ?
C. $500-$1000 ?
D. $1000-$1500 ?


----------



## Qupie (Mar 29, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'll have time to mess with it tomorrow and Tuesday. Haven't messed with it much yet.
> 
> Is that why dac/amps need so much volume? I didn't know it was a bug.  Is there a potential fix for this outside of blasting amp volume?



Yes that is the reason (I use my Fiio e18 right now and it needs to be on high gain volume 5 on PS5 (and PS4), while normally I listen at low gain volume 3.5).

AFAIK it has been described as the volume bug, volume issues or swapped channel bug (that can happen too apparently...). It is a problem with PS4 and 5 and has been for years, so I have little hope Sony is going to fix it... There has been little documentation on it AFAIK, other than some reddit posts, it has been somewhat flying under the radar.

JDS labs has found a work around for their PS5 compatible dacs. The best / most concise information you can find is in their blog. _"PS4 and PS5 are known to limit USB Audio output volume. All of our UAC1 firmware is locked to max volume as a workaround (you can still adjust volume at your console)."_ https://blog.jdslabs.com/2020/11/connecting-a-usb-dac-to-ps4-or-ps5/

I hope Schiit implemented something similar in the Hel 2. The headphones I have right now are easy to drive, but only having ~20%-50% (different sources state different %) input volume cannot be good for your signal to noise ratio. I really hope the Hel 2 has taken this into account. Very curious how you are going to like it! (p.s. talking about another opportunity to kickstart a youtube channel.... I haven't seen any reviews on Hel 2 yet, one of the only dacs working with the new generation consoles...)

-------------------

Some more posts discussing this weird bug:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-usb-dac-compatibility.324235/page-10

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/k49qx9/ps5_dac_amp_support_through_usb/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ps5-usb-dac-compatibility.324235/


----------



## Qupie

ronfifer said:


> We should do this exercise where we identify the little brother of the HD800S in terms of competitive gaming in lower price brackets.
> 
> Who is the HD800S's little brother between:
> 
> ...



Would be curious to see this discussion. Been thinking about buying one in the B price bracket. Have been hearing good stuff about the Sundara and have never owned a planar before


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 29, 2021)

A. AKG K702
B. Shure 1840 ($499)
C. ????
D. 8XX


----------



## danterikxx

Ananda?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Ananda soundstaging is different. It's taller but not as wide. And it's a fuller sound than any of these. So I wouldn't say it's the right comparison. It's definitely the headphone I'd get at that price range for gaming though.


----------



## PhuFighters

AppleheadMay said:


> Indeed, things are way overpriced in this hobby these days.
> Having owned quite a few D7000 and TH-900, many of them modded, I do think the Arya would be in another league though.


I've actually tried the HD800S,Beyerdynamic T1 2nd gen and the Aryas on COD and The Division 2. In my opinion, it is way easier to pin point sound cues/location with the Aryas and T1 gen 2. When i tested the HD800S, i could hear a lot of details in COD but it was more confusing where it was coming from. I would hear sounds from enemies from my direct left or right but they were directly in front of me. So i'd go Arya-->T1 gen 2-->HD800S when it comes to competive and story driven games. Of course, my opinions only


----------



## trix3072

ronfifer said:


> We should do this exercise where we identify the little brother of the HD800S in terms of competitive gaming in lower price brackets.
> 
> Who is the HD800S's little brother between:
> 
> ...


I'm definitely sure that the king of the C range(500-1000) is going to be the T1 2nd Generation(or the DT1990). A great all-rounder even for RPG games, versatile for most music genres, easy to drive, and has become the bang for the buck in 2021 at the moment. Some even prefer this for competitive games over the HD800s.


----------



## PhuFighters

trix3072 said:


> I'm definitely sure that the king of the C range(500-1000) is going to be the T1 2nd Generation(or the DT1990). A great all-rounder even for RPG games, versatile for most music genres, easy to drive, and has become the bang for the buck in 2021 at the moment. Some even prefer this for competitive games over the HD800s.


Totally agree! I might not have good ears for audiophile nuances but I can clearly hear the directional cues the T1 2nd gen offers compared to the HD800S.


----------



## JES

trix3072 said:


> I'm definitely sure that the king of the C range(500-1000) is going to be the T1 2nd Generation(or the DT1990). A great all-rounder even for RPG games, versatile for most music genres, easy to drive, and has become the bang for the buck in 2021 at the moment. Some even prefer this for competitive games over the HD800s.





PhuFighters said:


> Totally agree! I might not have good ears for audiophile nuances but I can clearly hear the directional cues the T1 2nd gen offers compared to the HD800S.


Why not the 3rd generation?


----------



## illram (Mar 30, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> We should do this exercise where we identify the little brother of the HD800S in terms of competitive gaming in lower price brackets.
> 
> Who is the HD800S's little brother between:
> 
> ...


I'm gonna answer this with the caveat of applying a VSS DSP, since this is a gaming thread. This obviously makes a big difference with headphones and can totally change the sound.

A. Hifiman HE 400i
B. Koss ESP950
C. Hifiman HE 560 (MSRP)
D. ??

(I haven't looked at pricing in a while, may flip B and C. Same answer though).

 Hifiman's 400i and 560, (particularly now that SXFi has a specific 400i setting) really expand their (not normally large) stage with a DSP and their imaging remains excellent. The Koss also will perform whatever tricks you ask it to perform since it is so detailed and accurate. I will go between these 4 (HD800S, 400i, 560, Koss) and find them all excellent for virtual surround accuracy. My two cents.


----------



## PhuFighters

JES said:


> Why not the 3rd generation?


I haven't heard these yet but seems like from some reviews, they're really close to the 2nd gens at a lot lower impedance making these very easy to drive without a headphone amp. Also, a lot easier to find than the 2nd gens haha


----------



## JES

illram said:


> I'm gonna answer this with the caveat of applying a VSS DSP, ...


Forgive me, but what is VSS?


----------



## Chastity

JES said:


> Forgive me, but what is VSS?


Virtual Surround Sound, otherwise known as HRTF-embedded stereo for headphones.  HRTF will use psychoacoustics to embed audio cues in a stereo feed to have it sound like a multi-speaker source.


----------



## JES

Chastity said:


> Virtual Surround Sound, otherwise known as HRTF-embedded stereo for headphones.  HRTF will use psychoacoustics to embed audio cues in a stereo feed to have it sound like a multi-speaker source.


Thank you. The acronym threw me.


----------



## motorwayne

PhuFighters said:


> Totally agree! I might not have good ears for audiophile nuances but I can clearly hear the directional cues the T1 2nd gen offers compared to the HD800S.


I'd go for something like the T1 2nd gen's they sound good, I've just gotten used to the PC38X with a mic attached. Wonder how the staging compares between the two?


----------



## jincuteguy

Anyone knows if a Dekoni earpad is worth the price? $80 for a pair of earpads


----------



## JES

motorwayne said:


> I'd go for something like the T1 2nd gen's they sound good, I've just gotten used to the PC38X with a mic attached. Wonder how the staging compares between the two?


I also just started using the PC38X and am curious of that as well.


----------



## motorwayne

Other thing: I'm using an SB X-Fi HD (Burson Op's)/Atom amp combo..would the Hel 2 add to my setup or are the Burson amps already doing the job?

Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows if a Dekoni earpad is worth the price? $80 for a pair of earpads


Look very carefully. Pads can make or break a headphone's sound. It depends on the material, and the headphone.


----------



## PhuFighters

motorwayne said:


> I'd go for something like the T1 2nd gen's they sound good, I've just gotten used to the PC38X with a mic attached. Wonder how the staging compares between the two?


Curious myself! You don't see these two being compared, atleast i haven't ran across any. It may come as a surprise but i haven't even tried the PC38X before haha. The last pair of Sennys i've owned were the PC363D and till this day is the most comfortable pair of headsets i've ever wore. PC38X is an upgrade to those but i wouldn't know if they are against the T1 2nd gens.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> Anyone knows if a Dekoni earpad is worth the price? $80 for a pair of earpads


As for quality, their pads are top notch.  Memory foam is just right, breathes yet has some density for comfort.  Quality materials.

As MLE pointed out, changing from stock pads will alter the sound signature.  Dekoni has FR charts comparing their models vs stock so you can get an idea of what will change.  I use EQ to restore original signature elements using Elite Hybrids on my DT-1990.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Lay. said:


> The only person in the whole universe that can tell you if the difference is worth the price is you.
> 
> Diminishing returns? For shure. I would even argue that you can find diminishing returns between HD 598 and HD 800S for gaming. The gaming experience is not 10 times better. Is it worth for me considering the price. Yes (since I like them for music). Is it worth for someone else? I really can't tell that and nobody can. For most of my gaming friends I would guess it is not worth it but we are not like the most of people here in Head-Fi.


Ahh certainly, for music, they blow my X2HRs and K712s out of the water. Well-mastered tracks with a high dynamic range, I can't listen to if not with the HD800S.

Though testing them with Modern Warfare, I was very surprised at how well the HD598s stack up. The difference was more subtle.

I will likely get the HDV820 at some point. I just really hope Sony update the PS5 to support UAC2, so I could at least use it directly.
Currently using the 800s with SXFI dongle, the volume output of which seems to really bug out.


----------



## Lay.

UrsusMajor said:


> Ahh certainly, for music, they blow my X2HRs and K712s out of the water. Well-mastered tracks with a high dynamic range, I can't listen to if not with the HD800S.
> 
> Though testing them with Modern Warfare, I was very surprised at how well the HD598s stack up. The difference was more subtle.
> 
> ...



I don't know if the UAC2 support is something that they can update (that would be nice) but I'm using G6 optical out to HDV820 at the moment with my PS5. It works pretty good and the volume knob is usually around 9 o'clock.


----------



## Qupie (Mar 31, 2021)

Is there any place for the Sennheiser HD700 in the list? Shouldn't that be the little brother of the HD800? 2nd hand they go for 300 or so, is that a good contender for the B bracket? Or is that headphone simply outdated?

@UrsusMajor  I find it unlikely Sony is going to update to UAC2, if they didn't do it with this console generation. Sad but true. On the other hand, dac manufacturers are solving the problem for them (shiit hel2, atom dacs).

Another option is to buy a relatively cheap UAC1 dac and an amp with 2 inputs, so you use your (expensive) UAC2 dac for music and the (cheap) UAC1 dac for gaming, with the same (expensive) amp. I don't think you need a fancy dac for gaming honestly. In your use case, with a HDV820, you could just buy a JDS labs dac for 100-300 bucks and feed it into the line in, or a G6 and use optical out if you really want the HDV820 to do the digital to analogue conversion. Seems like a relatively small investment next to your HDV820.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

'A' bracket would be the Beyer Tygr R (without the desk mic) for me - I've tried the PC37x/PC38x and the Beyer wins for me on audio and comfort.  (Admittedly, adding a mic is an extra expense though).


----------



## Rhadamanthys

Chastity said:


> FYI for Redscape owners, it's up to 1.3.9.   Settings - About - Check For Update
> 
> Not sure if the app autochecks.  Updated me from 1.36 to 1.39.  His Version List is also a bit outdated, last update is 1.30.



So we don't get any release notes?


----------



## Chastity

Rhadamanthys said:


> So we don't get any release notes?


Well, maybe.  Perhaps he never changes the revision number.  We could pester him about it via email.


----------



## motorwayne

WhiteHartMart said:


> 'A' bracket would be the Beyer Tygr R (without the desk mic) for me - I've tried the PC37x/PC38x and the Beyer wins for me on audio and comfort.  (Admittedly, adding a mic is an extra expense though).


Okay, so you're say "what" about the audio that gives it a win against the 37x/38x? I'm really interested.


----------



## Evshrug (Apr 1, 2021)

motorwayne said:


> Okay, so you're say "what" about the audio that gives it a win against the 37x/38x? I'm really interested.


Probably “More treble!”
Everyone has their own taste 😂





Can I add that a part of me loves that the $180 PC38X was earlier being compared against a $1000 T1?


----------



## Evshrug (Apr 1, 2021)

UrsusMajor said:


> Ahh certainly, for music, they blow my X2HRs and K712s out of the water. Well-mastered tracks with a high dynamic range, I can't listen to if not with the HD800S.
> 
> Though testing them with Modern Warfare, I was very surprised at how well the HD598s stack up. The difference was more subtle.
> 
> ...


UAC2 support would require a pretty big software update and policy change, but AFAIK it’s not a hardware change in the PS5. That said, an HDMI extractor with optical out, or a TV with optical out can get your PS5 indirectly connected to an HDV 820. You could also do something funny (like I’ve done in the past) and connect the SX-Fi to the HDV820’s amp section 😂

The HDV 820 does add a bit of meat and solidity to the proceedings. I use my HD 800 and HDV 820 together, truly it is a good pairing.

To balance between what Mad was saying and @BIG POPPA, each change upstream of a headphone makes a little bit of difference in the sound. It really makes sense to first get a headphone with the tone you like. “Endgame” is a state of mind, where you accept the gear you have as-is, and just focus on the media (music/games/etc). However, when you add up all the little changes in a truly dialed-in system, the final effect is quite impressive (but so too is your credit debt, so it’s best to be sure and to add these pieces a bit at a time).


It’s kind of like the first time you fight a boss in a Soulsborne game: you hit them once, and it only chips away a tiny bit of health, while one hit from a boss takes away most or all of your health. You think, wow, how could I ever take all that health bar. But you can keep chipping away at it and being patient, you can achieve a new level. And risk having your soul trapped in the “game” of upgrades forever (muah haha)




Dixter said:


> would be really interesting if Drop would send the 8xx out for reviews and at the same time send out a normal set of HD800 to actually compare the 8xx to....  Drop could have easily just changed the color of the ear cup ring to blue and said they tuned it and the reviewers would not notice a difference...  kinda like looking a a LG TV vs a Sony TV without having them side by side....  they both look great, its just that you have to get them side by side to actually tell the difference...  same with ALL HD800 variants...


Drop is sending out the HD 8xx to me soon, should arrive by the Thursday after Easter. I’ll have a whole slew of Sennheisers to compare it to.



ronfifer said:


> We should do this exercise where we identify the little brother of the HD800S in terms of competitive gaming in lower price brackets.
> 
> Who is the HD800S's little brother between:
> 
> ...


A. HD 560S
B. HD 700 (Discontinued)
C. Mmmmmmeh, I’ve heard some suggestions, but none in this price carry the impact and soundstage DNA of the HD 800S 🧬
D. HD 8xx / HD 800S


----------



## UrsusMajor

Evshrug said:


> UAC2 support would require a pretty big software update and policy change, but AFAIK it’s not a hardware change in the PS5. That said, an HDMI extractor with optical out, or a TV with optical out can get your PS5 indirectly connected to an HDV 820. You could also do something funny (like I’ve done in the past) and connect the SX-Fi to the HDV820’s amp section 😂



Certainly, if Sony decide to allow 3D audio via optical in the future, then I assume I could quite easily go SPDIF from LG CX to the HDV820


----------



## tmaxx123

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7

The design looks interesting. If only they’d release an upgraded x7 successor with this design layout...


----------



## illram

tmaxx123 said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7
> 
> The design looks interesting. If only they’d release an upgraded x7 successor with this design layout...


Isn't this kind of an X7 successor lite? Dolby decoding plus Super X-Fi with digital and analog out. 

If the line out does super x fi it's an instant buy for me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm that looks interesting. I may have to contact Creative.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

motorwayne said:


> Okay, so you're say "what" about the audio that gives it a win against the 37x/38x? I'm really interested.



For me they just sound that little bit more 'open' and 'spacious'.  I genuinely find them more accurate for spacial awareness on fps games and just prefer the overall balance of the sound (they are not as 'treble-hot' as most Beyer's due to some extra material in the ear cups.  Have kept my PC37x but they do sound a little lifeless and less exciting in comparison (to my ears at least).

Comfort wise the Beyers are better for me also - less clamp and bigger, better shaped pads which suits me.  The Senns put pressure around my ear which I find uncomfortable in comparison - just personal preference though on that tbh.


----------



## tmaxx123

illram said:


> Isn't this kind of an X7 successor lite? Dolby decoding plus Super X-Fi with digital and analog out.
> 
> If the line out does super x fi it's an instant buy for me.



Just curious, what’s your setup like currently? 

The X7 has optical out but I haven’t been able to make good use of it.


----------



## Evshrug

UrsusMajor said:


> Certainly, if Sony decide to allow 3D audio via optical in the future, then I assume I could quite easily go SPDIF from LG CX to the HDV820


I don’t have a PS5, but if the headphone surround could be sent through HDMI as 2-channel LPCM, then it should be no problem for an LG TV to send it along over optical. I do have an LG BX, and the optical out to my stereo amp (for speakers and headphones) sounds fine with the PS4 and other media sources feeding it (NVIDIA Shield, Apple TV, Super Nintendo Classic, etc).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It doesn't. Only sends it through usb devices and the PS5 controller.


----------



## illram (Apr 2, 2021)

tmaxx123 said:


> Just curious, what’s your setup like currently?
> 
> The X7 has optical out but I haven’t been able to make good use of it.


Currently just SXFi dongle for games, but I'd love a line out to a better amp. I have an SDAC and a iFi micro iCAN SE setup for music, so if the GC7 had a functional SXFi analog line out I'd ditch the SDAC and the SXFi dongle and run everything through the iFi. Would simplify things. 

But, they've limited the line out before if I remember correctly (X3 did not carry SXFi on its line out I think) so I wonder if they are doing the same here. I cannot find an answer in any of their documentation.


----------



## motorwayne

For me CMSS is just too good, I can't love SBX, tried and tried..and so far to my ear Super X-Fi just sounds weird.


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> As for quality, their pads are top notch.  Memory foam is just right, breathes yet has some density for comfort.  Quality materials.
> 
> As MLE pointed out, changing from stock pads will alter the sound signature.  Dekoni has FR charts comparing their models vs stock so you can get an idea of what will change.  I use EQ to restore original signature elements using Elite Hybrids on my DT-1990.



Yea i know the earpads will alter the sound.  I would get the OEM earpads if I could, but the Earpads for the HD700 are discontinued along with the headphones.  I saw some reviews on amazon for Dekoni earpads, and they're horrible.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> Yea i know the earpads will alter the sound.  I would get the OEM earpads if I could, but the Earpads for the HD700 are discontinued along with the headphones.  I saw some reviews on amazon for Dekoni earpads, and they're horrible.


Aren't the HD800 pads the same?


----------



## Asyrin25

I’m not a reviewer but I thought there might be someone considered for the headphones I have.

So I got my teaks in a few weeks ago and I’ve got to say, they are everything I remember about my d7000 and more. There’s something incredible about that sound.

I had an opportunity to compare them with a set of full Lawton teaks with maple cups. Didn’t care for the sound.

So that left it to my LCD-GX.

Without eq, the teaks were clearly superior to my ears. There’s a richness and a body to the lows that the audeze just wasn’t able to touch. The teaks lacks the resolution and mids that the planars provided.

With EQ, (6db bass shelf) the audeze come very close to the rumble of the teaks while still retaining the better resolution, vocals, and piano.

I also personally find the GX much more comfortable to wear.

So while the GX retains the place as my primary gaming set, I’m keeping the teaks. I think it’s important to have more than one headphone to keep sound fresh.

Thanks for the help, MLE and community.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 3, 2021)

To anyone playing Outriders, I dunno why, but the Dolby Digital to VSS conversion have the positional cues utterly screwed up. So I advise people to only use Tempest 3D audio or stereo. 

This is far from the only issue this game seems to have. I had to get a refund for the Steam version because the game was utterly broken.  Bad controls, horrible frame stutters, messed up audio...

The PS5 version is much more stable, despite the ruined DD 5.1 mix. It still crashes though.

That and you will get booted from the servers with no ability to log back in. It's a known issue.


----------



## kellte2

illram said:


> Isn't this kind of an X7 successor lite? Dolby decoding plus Super X-Fi with digital and analog out.
> 
> If the line out does super x fi it's an instant buy for me.


Very interested to hear impressions with ps5. If SXFi over line out, it would be approaching instabuy territory. Only rub is that I can’t see it besting the DAC SQ of the X7 with full sparkos op-amp upgrade.


----------



## halcyon

illram said:


> Isn't this kind of an X7 successor lite? Dolby decoding plus Super X-Fi with digital and analog out.
> 
> If the line out does super x fi it's an instant buy for me.



Time to order then:







Source: https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=200442&c

Would love to hear your experiences/comments, if you decide to get one.


----------



## halcyon (Apr 3, 2021)

Full specs of Sound Blaster GC7 here:
https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=200429&c

Connection setup options / variations here:
https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=200430&c

Things that stick out:

- heaphone output impedance: 10 ohms (way too high)
- USB bus powered (won't have a powerful headphone output)
- headphone out power: *32 ohm*s (Low Gain, *51mW*) / 150 ohms (High Gain, 41mW; Low Gain, 16mW) (could be higher)

Personally I'll be most interested in seeing measurements for the total delay/latency out of headphone/line out with SXFI processing on.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

halcyon said:


> Time to order then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think that's referring to SXFI. The device has a surround option OUTSIDE of SXFI. So needs to be made clear on what's getting used, as using SXFI turns off Acoustic Engine, and that's where the surround size setting is.


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't think that's referring to SXFI. The device has a surround option OUTSIDE of SXFI. So needs to be made clear on what's getting used, as using SXFI turns off Acoustic Engine, and that's where the surround size setting is.


Yeah could refer to SBX out. I'm pessimistically presuming that is what they are referring to, actually. I wonder if they worry their headphone tuning settings might not work as intended if they let users stick their own amps in the chain.

But, I ordered it anyway as I'm too curious. Unfortunately can't/don't know how to measure latency other than just via eyes and ears. But I'm still excited to play with a new Creative product. I'll let everyone know what I find out.


----------



## Evshrug

halcyon said:


> Time to order then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hnnngh!



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't think that's referring to SXFI. The device has a surround option OUTSIDE of SXFI. So needs to be made clear on what's getting used, as using SXFI turns off Acoustic Engine, and that's where the surround size setting is.


Perhaps, but the screenshot specifically shows the text “Speakers (Line-Out)/Headphone Virtualization Off” with an arrow pointing right, implying a submenu with options.

Why do I have to be so fascinated by surround DSPs 🤷‍♂️ 😅


----------



## jincuteguy

Chastity said:


> Aren't the HD800 pads the same?


You mean like same size? I dont think so


----------



## illram (Apr 4, 2021)

I has it.





The good news is Creative said it would take 9 business days to get to my house, and it took 1. Excellent. The bad news is it does NOT pass SXFi through line out or SPDIF. Sad face.

It also has an "SPDIF passthrough," but that only passes through whatever is coming in via SPDIF in. One thing I did not test is whether you can decode Dolby Digital via SPDIF input to PCM, add SXFI, then do that out via SPDIF? That would be cool for the last gen of consoles! Sadly too late for me, Creative. My Xbox has been retired from my gaming desk. I did not really mess with Dolby decoding at all. If it does have the ability to add SXFI to Dolby, that would be pretty cool. It's instructions recommend using HDMI extractors to get the Dolby signal in via SPDIF for next gen consoles, though (!).

I played with it for 4 or 5 hours to see if it is worth it over my SXFI dongle. My conclusion is maybe? It does sound different, and I spent a bit of time going back and forth between the dongle and this trying to figure out what the difference was. By ear alone (volume matched) it sounded like there was slightly more db in the upper mid to high end (4k, maybe 8k max) range. Also a little more bass presence to my ears. Just sounds a little "fuller", to me. If you don't have a dongle yet, and want SXFi on your desktop (versus the dongle which is more portable), I'd probably go with this. It's almost the same price, anyway. But if you already have the dongle I wouldn't say it is worth it. You could probably just EQ it to make it sound almost the same if you wanted. (How I isolated the sound difference.) I don't have the X3, so I don't know how it compares to that.

I didn't play around with the decoding, or the SBX (called "Acoustic Engine" here) really. Sounded like SBX to me. With SXFI, I don't really understand why SBX continues to exist, in the same product alongside it, no less. It's inferior. Why this device uses both, I don't know. They are mutually exclusive. (My guess is you cannot add SXFi to Dolby, despite my optimism above, so to keep it relevant for consoles they still need it. Just a hunch.) I also tried some of the gaming presets (they have EQ presets for specific games) and they honestly all sounded terrible. If used for non SXFi purposes (why??) I would just use it like a G6 or X7 and stick to a surround setting I like, and turn everything else off other than maybe a little EQ.

I also tried SXFI "battle". I truly have no clue what Creative is trying to accomplish, here. Honestly, it kind of sounds like Dolby Headphones. What I remember of it anyway. Cues are super isolated to the channel they are supposed to primarily come from, so you can tell the channel they are coming from very well, but there is tons of reverb, like I am in a narrow tunnel, and there is no panning to speak of. Stuff either comes out of one channel, or another. I couldn't really handle it for more than a few minutes.

As per usual with Creative, the software is sort of confusing. First off, let's just take a moment to recognize that every single Creative product has its own app. Some even have multiple apps! (Like SXFI). Sheesh. Here, to use SXFi, you have to install the Creative Control app for the GC7, and you have to also install the Windows App store UWP "SXFi App." But NOT the "SXFi Control" .exe program, which also works with SXFi products, but which does not work with the Creative Control App. Clicking SXFi in the "Creative App" opens the "SXFI App" and god forbid you also have SXFi Control open and another SXFi device attached, because it will cause the SXFI App to just close immediately if you do. The SXFi app sucks and I hate it. You can't login with a Google account, for example, despite being able to login with a Google account on the mobile SXFi app and SXFi Control. What. (You can log in on your phone, and then scan the QR code the Windows App presents, and it will log you in on the Windows app, at least. But if you don't have your phone handy, and your login is your Google login, sorry! No SXFi app for you). SXFi app crashes a lot and is just generally a less pleasant and less functional experience than SXFi Control. It is like a big phone app on your Windows screen. (Why two apps? Why??)

There's loads of other stuff here that a more in depth review could cover, it's a very feature laden device. The mic features, for example, are totally lost on me but clearly a huge improvement over other SXFi devices, and maybe even over the X7 and G6. (Never used mic functionality in any of these products.) It's also kinda cool lookin'. But all I care about is SXFI, at least until my Smyth Realiser (ever?) arrives, and I will suffer whatever indignity Creative throws at me to get it, because it really is fantastic. I truly do not understand their over zealous imprisonment of it from any line out on any product. Release the Kraken, Creative!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's one reason why I like stuff like the Hel 2 that doesn't come with software that has too many options. There is such a thing as having too much.

One thing that does it was is the GSX1000 where all the options are on the device itself. That's what Creative should try to do next. Have a device where all the settings are. No software.


----------



## illram (Apr 4, 2021)

I think they are trying to ape the GSX1000 a little bit with this design. There is surround (only used for SBX), bass, and treble control on the device itself. You could also probably set it up so the "custom" buttons (C1, C2, etc.) buttons do everything you want, once you set up your profiles on the software. You can map 3 profiles total to switch between, which are basically exactly the same as profiles you could set up on the X7, among other things. You can even bind a keybind to one of the buttons which is sort of neat I guess.

But yeah, no full functionality on the device itself. We still must use Creative's head scratching software at some point.


----------



## Lay. (Apr 4, 2021)

I was really hoping this GC7 might be the one. But no SBX with PS5  without hdmi extractor and no SXFI output via optical out. 😕

Does the SXFI work only from USB or also from SPDIF (PS5)?


----------



## illram (Apr 4, 2021)

Lay. said:


> I was really hoping this GC7 might be the one. But no SBX with PS5  without hdmi extractor and no SXFI output via optical out. 😕


The instructions indicate you can of course also hook it up via USB as well but I have no idea if the PS5 does multi channel PCM or Dolby via USB. (Haven't been following the PS5 discussion much.) Would need either of those for SBX.

And there's always the TV optical out option, I guess. If you have a TV in the mix. But it's kinda silly we _still _have to resort to these old work around solutions.


----------



## Lay.

illram said:


> The instructions indicate you can of course also hook it up via USB as well but I have no idea if the PS5 does multi channel PCM or Dolby via USB. (Haven't been following the PS5 discussion much.) Would need either of those for SBX.



It can do PS5 Tempest 3D audio from USB but no multi channel PCM or Dolby.  The G6 is fine for that purpose.


----------



## illram (Apr 4, 2021)

Lay. said:


> It can do PS5 Tempest 3D audio from USB but no multi channel PCM or Dolby.  The G6 is fine for that purpose.


Yep, then in that case this device really does nothing beyond what the G6 already does. Sadly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 4, 2021)

The G6 continues to be that one gaming dac/amp to get for us vss users. Unless ofc you want to go bigger with the X7. But I think G6 optical to audiophile dac/amp is the way to go instead of the X7 unless you really just want one unit for everything.


----------



## Aivanpou

Hi, I am currently using SB X3 with DT 1990. Do you think a Hel 2 would be an improvement over the X3? I only use X3 in direct mode, since SXFI or SBX did not quite convince me for gaming.

What do you think of the Hel 2 so far? The use would be for games and music.


Sorry for my english


----------



## JES (Apr 4, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's one reason why I like stuff like the Hel 2 that doesn't come with software that has too many options. There is such a thing as having too much.
> 
> ...


This is why I ordered the Hel. Using Astro A50s for years, I found that I was disabling all of their hardware DSP and utilizing Atmos (either on Xbox or PC) for surround. So in effect, I was paying $300 for wireless capability and questionable sound quality (not to mention my poor experiences with build quality and customer service).

So when my Hel 2 arrives, I expect it to improve my experience by adding hardware volume/mic gain control and improved sound quality to my current wired headset. Plus the potential to drive some "bigger" planars or something in the future. And that's all I really want.


----------



## illram (Apr 4, 2021)

Lay. said:


> Does the SXFI work only from USB or also from SPDIF (PS5)?


Sorry missed this question earlier. I did not verify whether SXFI will function from SPDIF in, i.e. after decoding DD+. (I presume it would function normally via an unencoded pcm SPDIF stream but SPDIF cannot pass more than 2 channels unencoded if I remember correctly). That's sort of the one thing I did not test. If it did work that would be kinda cool and something the G6 cannot do.


----------



## illram (Apr 5, 2021)

Sorry for the double post, I've been trying to test out Dolby decoding on the GC7 via Windows 10 to see if I can apply SXFI to a decoded Dolby bitstream. Unfortunately this device shares the G6's limitation of no Dolby decoding via anything other than SPDIF input. So, no dolby decoding of any PC media from the USB port, unfortunately. (This only really matters for movies and tv shows but still, kind of a weird limitation. I am going to guess this is something Dolby enforces.)


----------



## halcyon

illram said:


> The bad news is it* does NOT pass SXFi through line out or SPDIF*. Sad face.


Thank you for this! What a missed opportunity from Creative.

I'm almost temped to buy it with a 2 week free return, do 3 different versions SXFI analyses of my ears, record the impulse responses of those into files, return the card for refund and use the impulse response files in HeSuVi instead. SXFI for free with ANY soundcard and ANY DAC and ANY headphone amp I want, and stop waiting for Creative to "do it right" the next time around.


----------



## illram

halcyon said:


> Thank you for this! What a missed opportunity from Creative.
> 
> I'm almost temped to buy it with a 2 week free return, do 3 different versions SXFI analyses of my ears, record the impulse responses of those into files, return the card for refund and use the impulse response files in HeSuVi instead. SXFI for free with ANY soundcard and ANY DAC and ANY headphone amp I want, and stop waiting for Creative to "do it right" the next time around.


This sounds intriguing. Is this the process you're referring to?

https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/How-To Record Impulse Responses Digitally/

Or is there another way to do this with in ear mics?


----------



## halcyon (Apr 5, 2021)

illram said:


> This sounds intriguing. Is this the process you're referring to?
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/How-To Record Impulse Responses Digitally/
> 
> Or is there another way to do this with in ear mics?



Yes, that's how you would do it. I would just process the analog output from the headphone output of GC7 (while trying to adjust the output volume so that it is within line output specs or near, to avoid distortion).

You can do it with ear canal mics, but that's like doing SXFI (which simulates your ear HRTF) + HRTF of your ears (from the in-ear mics), which is like double HRTFing (not worth it).

The best way to do it, if you can afford it, is to forget about SXFI, just get a 7.X full frequency loudspeaker setup (calibrated), get  high quality in-ear microphones, then record the impulse responses of the 7.X loudspeaker output with your mics in your ears .then process this and use it as the personalized HRTF function within HeSuVi. Personalized, accurate, no more guessing.

Bonuses:
- no more generic SXFI guessing - your ears+head+torso HRTF, actual impulse response modelling, not a generic algo

- you can record this in the kind of room you want to "hear" with the final HRTF file : if you record it in your room, the impulse response file and the HeSuVi simulation using this, will sound like your speakers in your room (not some generic algo room made up with maths)

- Near zero millisecond processing delay - just pick the fastest sound card you can find that has the lowest overall latency, and then your sound playback latency will be: Windows driver/audio stack latency (can't change this yourself) + Your selected sound card latency (differences here can be up to +300 ms from card to card) + HeSuVi additional latency (should be within <5ms within most modern fast systems)

- Pick your sound card, pick your DAC, pick your headphone amp, pick your heaphones. No more crappy compromises.

It's cumbersome, expensive and time-consuming, but probably will give you the best results.

More info in this long thread (incl. software, links, examples, instructions):

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/recording-impulse-responses-for-speaker-virtualization.890719/


----------



## Evshrug

jincuteguy said:


> You mean like same size? I dont think so


Correct, the HD 800 series pads are significantly wider in diameter.


----------



## pietcux (Apr 5, 2021)

Chastity said:


> Aren't the HD800 pads the same?


Absolutely not. They only share similarities regardig the mounting mechanism but have different form and size.
And at least in Germany they are still available from Sennheiser:
https://de-de.sennheiser.com/zubehoer--hd-700--ohrpolster


----------



## jincuteguy

Evshrug said:


> Correct, the HD 800 series pads are significantly wider in diameter.


Do you think those Dekoni pads for the HD700 are comparable to the OEM from Sennheiser? I know it won't sound the same as the OEM pads but I have no choice I can't get the OEM pads from Sennheiser.  Sennheiser told me the OEM pads are discontinued


----------



## illram (Apr 5, 2021)

OK, drumroll... the Sound Blaster GC7 DOES, I repeat DOES decode Dolby and then do SXFI for consoles. Via SPDIF in only. Tested on Xbox One S, and I also tested Dolby Digital out of my LG OLEDE65P SPDIF out. Dolby light goes on, SXFI light remains engaged. Huzzah!

Didn't actually try gaming to "test" it (haven't turned on my Xbox in ages so Warzone has like 5 gajillion GB updates before I could play, just scrolled around Netflix and the menu basically) but I see no reason why it wouldn't just sound like typical SXFI, since it is decoding to multi-channel PCM and then layering on the SXFI goodness, just like it does with SBX.

So, this is a pretty cool feature actually for this particular device. Creative you have sort of redeemed yourself!


----------



## Chastity

https://embody.co/pages/gaming

I saw this on LigitechG's site initially, then noticed it's a product called Immerse, which does your VSS, and has some lolwtf cheats in it, aka Sonic Radar, which will visially highlight opponents on your screen.  (I can just see the bans coming)  The other amusing part is that they have headphone profiles for a lot of the "audiophile" grade headphones from Audeze, Beyerdynamics, and a couple of others.  The big downside is that it's subscription... up to a 7-yr prepaid plan.  Ouch.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> OK, drumroll... the Sound Blaster GC7 DOES, I repeat DOES decode Dolby and then do SXFI for consoles. Via SPDIF in only. Tested on Xbox One S, and I also tested Dolby Digital out of my LG OLEDE65P SPDIF out. Dolby light goes on, SXFI light remains engaged. Huzzah!
> 
> Didn't actually try gaming to "test" it (haven't turned on my Xbox in ages so Warzone has like 5 gajillion GB updates before I could play, just scrolled around Netflix and the menu basically) but I see no reason why it wouldn't just sound like typical SXFI, since it is decoding to multi-channel PCM and then layering on the SXFI goodness, just like it does with SBX.
> 
> So, this is a pretty cool feature actually for this particular device. Creative you have sort of redeemed yourself!


So you get VSS from PS5 via SPDIF (optical out from PS5 and optical in from GC7)?



Chastity said:


> https://embody.co/pages/gaming
> 
> I saw this on LigitechG's site initially, then noticed it's a product called Immerse, which does your VSS, and has some lolwtf cheats in it, aka Sonic Radar, which will visially highlight opponents on your screen.  (I can just see the bans coming)  The other amusing part is that they have headphone profiles for a lot of the "audiophile" grade headphones from Audeze, Beyerdynamics, and a couple of others.  The big downside is that it's subscription... up to a 7-yr prepaid plan.  Ouch.


I mean if they partner with Logitech Gaming and has that Radar Map, I dont think you can get ban unless it's for a tournament and they don't allow to use it.  Because I don't see why would Logitech would partner with something that is like a cheat?


----------



## Azzurro

Anyone else's HEL 2 been pushed back to May 20th? 😭


----------



## Lay.

jincuteguy said:


> So you get VSS from PS5 via SPDIF (optical out from PS5 and optical in from GC7)?



Except PS5 does not have optical out. You have to have HDMI Audio extractor or SPDIF out from TV.


----------



## Qupie

Azzurro said:


> Anyone else's HEL 2 been pushed back to May 20th? 😭


Yeah same! 


Also saw a post on reddit from someone claiming the mic input was horrible. I am curious if that was a quality control issue, or that the mic input is really that bad in all of them. How are you liking your Hel 2 @Mad Lust Envy ? Have you tested the mic input yet?


----------



## JES

Azzurro said:


> Anyone else's HEL 2 been pushed back to May 20th? 😭


Yes. I sent an email continuing the dialog where they told me it would be 7-10 business days from March 24. I asked what happened to that delivery estimate. No response yet.


----------



## Qupie (Apr 6, 2021)

I canceled mine just now. The G6 is in B-stock again in europe for 80 euro.
Saves me 120+ euro, AND it is a better / more future proof solution I think. Letting the G6 handle the USB--> headphones from my playstation AND mic input. And to potentially use the G6 to go USB --> optical to a better dac/amp in the future.

I am eying the focal clear MG (I am wondering if it would be good for gaming too, but mainly for music), and might get a magnius/modius or something similar for that, I think the hel would probably be not good enough for such a headphone.

I don't know but may 20th, with the possibility for another delay, AND shipping to EU was just too much for me at this point.

Honestly not mad about it, supply shortages are what they are, but waiting 2+ months is not a great option for me.

I hope they don't mind canceling an order.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Yeah same!
> 
> 
> Also saw a post on reddit from someone claiming the mic input was horrible. I am curious if that was a quality control issue, or that the mic input is really that bad in all of them. How are you liking your Hel 2 @Mad Lust Envy ? Have you tested the mic input yet?


I saw that too. Yikes. If the mic input is not (really) good, this device will be pretty much pointless for me.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> I saw that too. Yikes. If the mic input is not (really) good, this device will be pretty much pointless for me.


Yeah exactly. So the G6 as a cheap (temporary) device should be an upgrade to the solution I use right now (old portable fiio E18 dac/amp for audio output / mixamp for mic input), at least in usability, but I think also in sound quality. 

Then if (lets be real, when) I want an upgrade, I could just buy a stack without worrying about mic input. As an added bonus, I could even mess around with the VRR on the G6, but I am honestly liking the plain stereo audio ques since I got my ps5.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Yeah exactly. So the G6 as a cheap (temporary) device should be an upgrade to the solution I use right now (old portable fiio E18 dac/amp for audio output / mixamp for mic input), at least in usability, but I think also in sound quality.
> 
> Then if (lets be real, when) I want an upgrade, I could just buy a stack without worrying about mic input. As an added bonus, I could even mess around with the VRR on the G6, but I am honestly liking the plain stereo audio ques since I got my ps5.


Your plan sounds good to me. 

I am using the headset jack on my Alienware laptop with a PC38X headset for game sound and voice. My plan for the Hel 2 is to upgrade my game audio and game chat sound, then later upgrade to a better mic (if I need it). My friends say I sound better with the PC38X direct to the AW jack than I did on my Astro A50s, so at least I'm improved for now. 

If the Hel 2 turns out to be NFG as far as the mic, I'll use my Jotunheim 2 for game audio (overkill lol) and look for a separate solution for mic input. But I was really hoping for a one-box gaming solution.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 6, 2021)

Haven't had any issues with the mic input. At least just as good as the Hel, which was fine. So not sure what people are on about.

Knowing people I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mismatch in settings, Discord, etc.

I've used the Hel as my main mic input since the release.


----------



## JES

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Haven't had any issues with the mic input. At least just as good as the Hel, which was fine. So not sure what people are on about.
> 
> Knowing people I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mismatch in settings, Discord, etc.
> 
> I've used the Hel as my main mic input since the release.


Thanks for the feedback (I couldn't help it).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I was having issues with something else on the Hel 2. It would randomly cut and swap L and R channels. Spent a few days trying to figure out what it was. 

It wasn't the Hel 2.

You know what it was? Out of 8000  3.5mm to 1/4" adapters I have, I was using the ONE that was faulty. I switched out to literally any other,  and they're all perfect.

🤦

ALWAYS quadruple check EVERYTHING in your chain before you blame ANYTHING. Sometimes it's the smallest most inexpensive piece.


----------



## JES

Azzurro said:


> Anyone else's HEL 2 been pushed back to May 20th? 😭


Schiit responded to my inquiry, less than 24 hours after I asked. I'm cool with this answer. I'll be patient._

Good Morning,

I am sorry the Hel 2 ship date has been pushed back to May 20th. We have been experiencing a lot of unpredictable part delays which makes it extremely difficult to provide more accurate shipping dates. We are doing everything we can to ship orders as soon as possible. I understand your frustration. This has been frustrating for us as well.

Thank You_


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Schiit is incredibly in high demand atm. Give them the time they need. I'd say its worth it.

For the relatively small size of their team, and the many products that people want, it can't be easy for them.


----------



## Chastity

Update:  Interestingly, as of late, I've noticed that I can set my SMSL M300 DAC to 192kHz, and the Waves NX plug-in has been working ok.  I know it supports up to 96kHz, and testing confirmed this.  However, in the past, 192kHz usually causes the audio pitch to be way off, and with error.  But recently it's been consistently working.

I installed v 5.0.0 of the USB driver for my SMSL M300 MKII recently, but I cannot confirm this was the changer, or if due to a OS update.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> Schiit responded to my inquiry, less than 24 hours after I asked. I'm cool with this answer. I'll be patient.
> 
> _Good Morning,
> 
> ...



Thats a decent reply, and honestly I don't blame them at all, it is what it is with all the supply chain problems nowadays. I am sure to go back to Schiit when I need an upgrade. That is part of why I canceled my hel (in addition to the delay). After researching more about their products I really want to get a modius/magnius/jottenheim


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So the Focal Elex came in. Damn, what a beauty it is! She's built like a goddang tank. What's nice is that using the cable on the LCD-1 and pulling it out a bit works, so I can use it to try the LCD-1 balanced. The Elex comes with two cables, one SE one balanced, which is dope. The pads are great too.

She's hella open too. Can't wait to mess around with it.


----------



## duranxv

Hey gang,

Was reading through the posts and I had 2 questions I was hoping to get some advice on:

1) I'm getting a "real" DAC/Amp combo instead of using Sound Blaster for better sound quality.  If you hook up the G6 (or now the new GC7) via optical to the DAC, does it only provide VSS? Or can you also use its EQ software through Sound Blaster Command?  Also, does using the optical affect sound quality on the DAC since the sound is going through yet another process with the G6/GC7?

2) In case I can't use the EQ of Sound Blaster Command with my DAC/Amp combo, any recommendations of comparable EQ software that's intuitive?  I'm not looking for anything complex and I wasn't a big fan of Equalizer APO's interface to be honest.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 6, 2021)

You can send everything the G6 does alone to another DAC via the optical, EQ included.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can send everything the G6 does alone to another DAC via the optical, EQ included.



Does it affect the sound quality of the DAC since the signal has to pass through the G6 first before going into the DAC unit?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 6, 2021)

The optical doesn't affect sound quality. That will be up to the other DAC. The only thing that matters in terms of the quality is whether the G6 is sending a clean signal. You can't alter how 1s and 0s sound. That's up to the way the DAC does the conversion. The G6 is sending 1s and 0s to the other DAC, as long as the G6 hasn't messed that up, it will be fine. That's what I been led to believe, and I don't feel any reason to believe otherwise.

Whether another DAC does the digital to analog conversion better than the G6, well that's the question.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The optical doesn't affect sound quality. That will be up to the other DAC. The only thing that matters in terms of the quality is whether the G6 is sending a clean signal. You can't alter how 1s and 0s sound. That's up to the way the DAC does the conversion. The G6 is sending 1s and 0s to the other DAC, as long as the G6 hasn't messed that up, it will be fine. That's what I been led to believe, and I don't feel any reason to believe otherwise.
> 
> Whether another DAC does the digital to analog conversion better than the G6, well that's the question.



That's very helpful.  Thanks!  Now the question is:  Stick with the G6/AE-9 or get the new GC7 because it carries SXFi over optical...


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## JES

Qupie said:


> Thats a decent reply, and honestly I don't blame them at all, it is what it is with all the supply chain problems nowadays. I am sure to go back to Schiit when I need an upgrade. That is part of why I canceled my hel (in addition to the delay). After researching more about their products I really want to get a modius/magnius/jottenheim





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Schiit is incredibly in high demand atm. Give them the time they need. I'd say its worth it.
> 
> For the relatively small size of their team, and the many products that people want, it can't be easy for them.


Was notified that my Hel 2 shipped today. Obviously well before May 20th. The last POS I ordered took six days to crawl to MI, so hopefully I should be able to plug it in next week.


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## Mad Lust Envy

I'm finishing up the Hel 2 write up and should hopefully post shortly.


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2021)

As usual, errors, spelling, etc I'll likely find AFTERWARDS. I'll fix them as I see them.

Let me know if you guys see all the images. I can never tell with Headfi. There's a bunch.

----------
----------

*Schiit Hel 2*
*
*
Hel 2: $199 as of April 2021
Where to buy: *Hel 2 at Schiit.com*

Disclaimer: A special thanks to Schiit's Jason Stoddard for sending out the Hel 2 for my impressions. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Schiit, Jason, or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything other than for my honest impressions. That's it.

Here is an excerpt from my 2019 Fulla 3 and Hel review (edited for Hel 2 specificity), which still applies here:

_"As I'm someone who doesn't feel comfortable with dac/amp reviews, this particular "review" will be a bit more freestyle, with a more relaxed, thoughts on paper approach to writing, as opposed to my typical review process of trying to make it as professional as I possibly can. I think it's better for it, as I don't feel right about trying to condense my thoughts into my common review style for headphones for amp/dacs. It's why you haven't seen any full on review of anything outside of the gaming dac/amps that were easier to write about due to the software features. As Schiit's dac/amps are more simplistic, without any software, it wouldn't work quite the same. This entry will not be as long as those reviews, but I'll do my best in trying to make it legible to a degree. Thanks for your understanding.

I also know those in my small corner of the audiophile community like and use virtual surround devices, which the Hel 2 is not. So this isn't aimed at them, and here I'm writing this 'review' for everyone else who doesn't need or use stuff like that, and just want the raw, untouched, stereo sound. Besides, the Hel 2 makes an excellent amp/dac outside of gaming as well, so they may still be interested in it."_

The Hel 2 does have a few, but meaningful additions over the original Hel, which should absolutely appeal to a much larger crowd of gamers and audio enthusiasts alike.



*Intro*​
It feels like I reviewed the original Schiit Hel only a few short months ago. That review was done on December 2019, barely reaching a year and a few months. Schiit's been quite busy, it seems. There were aspects of the Hel that I felt could have easily have been improved in its next iteration, and I'm happy to report that the Hel 2 has rectified nearly if not all of the original Hel's shortcomings. What we have now if a dac/amp that caters to a considerably larger demographic. While the original Hel was limited to mainly being most useful on PC, the Hel 2 has broadened its scope to reach consoles as well as Televisions. This is where the vast majority of gamers play, so this was the correct move by Schiit.

So what has changed, and is the Hel 2 worth it if you already own the original Hel? The answer to that depends on what it is you want from the Hel. If you're coming in fresh, the Hel 2 is an absolute and clear upgrade.



*Build*​
_(Note: A lot of what I write here will be what was already said of the original Hel, so I will be pasting a lot of what was said in that review, as it still holds true here. There will be additions and changes based for the Hel 2.)_

The Hel 2 upon first inspection looks and feels exactly like the original Hel. In fact, unless I look at the rear where the inputs/outputs are, there is absolutely nothing to differentiate it from the original Hel. It is 100% identical. It is more or less the size of a Magni or Modi, just slightly shorter in height, with the inputs/outputs placed on the short sides as opposed to them being on the longer sides on the Magni/Modi. This means that the Hel 2 will take up less horizontal space, but will need more clearance in the back in terms of depth. It's not particularly big in any case, and should fit most desks.

*Front (left to right):*


Mic gain knob - allows you to manually adjust the mic output level. This is something many other gaming dac/amps tend to somehow miss. The inclusion here alone puts the Hel 2 well above the others for me in terms of microphone practicality. I'll take a manual knob over software controls each and every time. Thank you, Schiit. Never get rid of this. In fact, maybe include it on more products. Or may like as an add in board for the Asgard sized gear? I dunno how that'd work, but a man can dream.

3.5mm mic input - self explanatory. You can attach any mic here. This is ONLY for the mic, so if you have a headset with both audio and mic channels placed in one 3.5mm plug, make sure to use the included audio/mic splitter.

USB/Digital Input switch - Select from the USB input or Optical digital input. (note: Make sure the source that is outputting to the optical digital input is set to 2ch PCM/Stereo, not Dolby Digital/DTS, or anything past 2ch. For us gamers, any device that is outputting virtual surround will work, as virtual surround has already been converted to 2ch, like in a Creative G6 outputting SBX via the optical output.)

Low/High Gain switch - choose between low and high gain (not certain on db rating). You should have plenty of volume travel with the right gain selected on most headphones.

1/4" (6.3mm) headphone jack - I don't think one can ever go wrong with a 1/4" input. Much better than 3.5mm, personally. If you have a headphone that only has 3.5mm plug, that's what the included adapter is for. You probably have a million 1/4" adapters laying about anyways.


*Rear (left to right):*



This is where the Hel 2 differs from the original Hel on the outside.

3.5mm variable analog output - Has volume control, but if you want to use the Hel as a DAC only, set it to low gain, and raise volume all the way to the max. It will effectively become a line out this way.

Toslink/SPDIF/Optical digital input - Gone is the analog input of the original Hel, replaced with an optical input. I mean, if you're going to buy a small dac/amp of this nature, were you TRULY going to use the analog input? I find it doubtful, and apparently so did Schiit. I feel this is the correct choice. Much more digital input versatility, rather than having an amp only mode which very few people would use. Sure, using something like a Modius as a DAC to the Hel as the amp would be super silly and cool, but come on, let's be real. Most of us will use the Hel 2 as a dac first and foremost. My only gripe here is that they opted for a traditional optical input with the dreaded door that can and break under some stress (don't ask me how many of these inputs I have broken, I'll just say a lot). I would've preferred one without the door, or even better, a 3.5mm optical input. Much more durable, in my opinion. Ah well, not a huge deal, but something Schiit can note for the future. You've done away with ancient, horrible micro usb ports, you can also do away with fragile optical inputs with plastic door tabs.

Power Type C USB input - Hallelujah! There is a god. The horrible, technological curse that was Micro USB is almost entirely behind us! In its place, the Hel has gone with the miraculous, wonderful, reversible Type C input. It seems Schiit had some...issues during the transition, but let's all of us thank Schiit for stepping towards the new millennium, if a little late to the party. What matters is that they're finally here. This specific port is necessary to power the Hel 2 with the included 2.1a wall wart. Make sure it's this wall wart being used, as other wall warts may not supply enough power to the Hel 2.

Type C USB Data input - This one is necessary for USB DAC use. The Hel 2 will not draw any power from this input. On PC, the Hel can go up to 32bit/384khz. The original Hel capped out at 32bit/192khz.

Power Switch - Schiit uses some of the most satisfying switches for their power (as well as on source selection and gain settings). An audible clunk when switching up or down. The Hel 2 must be on for your source to pick it up as a device.


*Top:*



Apparently on the original review of the Hel, I forgot to mention anything about the top portion of the unit. Yikes. My bad. The only things to note on top are the large volume wheel and ventilation holes.

Ventilation - Allows you to peek inside the unit, and like the original Hel, has a nice red LED shining through when the unit is on. This is far, FAR superior to the front facing white LEDs that Schiit uses on their other dac and amps. Those things are obnoxiously bright. Schiit, red or amber LEDs for all your future products, please? No more white. Also internal LED placement like on the Hel 2 is just perfect. I do understand why there's a front facing LED on the bigger units that are stackable, but any way to keep from using front LED is a good thing.



Volume knob - This massive knob is actually bigger than the ones used on the Asgard sized devices. The top mounting makes it ideal for a smaller sized device like the Hel as well. It isn't particularly weighty feeling, but has a nice smooth travel, and a much better volume indicator than the nearly invisible dot on my Jotunheim 2. I had to put a sticker on my Jot 2's knob just so I can see where my volume was set. The biggest benefit of the Hel 2's knob over the original Hel is that I no longer get audible scratchy noise coming through my headphones. The original Hel would make an unpleasant fuzzy noise when adjusting volume, like so many other analog volume pots. Only an annoyance when adjusting volume, but an annoyance nevertheless. The Hel 2 is 100% dead silent. Perfect. This makes it a much more enjoyable experience.


*Sides and Bottom:*



The left and right sides in lined with circular holes for ventilation. You can also see inside. The main things to note on the bottom are the sticker with the unit number, as well as the 4 rubber feet. That's pretty much it.


*Final Build Quality Impressions:*

The Hel 2 is incredibly well designed overall. In terms of physical improvements that can be made for the Hel 2, there's not much I'd change here. The optical input could be changed to one without the plastic flap/door of doom, or even better, a 3.5mm optical input. I would've like to have a full sized rca output instead of a 3.5mm analog out, but I understand the limitation in space on the back. Otherwise, the Hel 2 feels like a solid chunk of metal. It's aesthetically pleasing with the red and black scheme, and has some heft to it. It certainly doesn't feel cheap. A thing I'm very happy with. Despite the gamer-centric color scheme, I think the Hel 2 would fit in with any type of decor. One of the better looking pieces of Schiit. Pardon the pun.



*Accessories*​
The Hel comes with two 3ft type C USB cables, a 2.1a wall wart for power, a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter, and a headset audio/mic splitter (not pictured above). All the essentials are covered. Funnily enough, the unit sent to me had one Type C and one micro usb cable. I made sure to let Jason know so that this didn't happen with other retail units. Not a big deal as I already had spare type C cables laying about.



*Ease of Use*​
The Hel 2 is a wonderful product in that there is no software required, and in most current age setups don't require driver downloads. You simply plug it into your main device, and select it as your audio device. You should be good to go. If for some reason you're using something a bit older without UAC2 support, Schiit has a driver download page with instructions, HERE (https://www.schiit.com/guides/gaming).

As a gaming dac/amp, the Hel is a bit more limited in comparison to something like the Creative G6 or X7 due to lack of typical features found on other devices like software, equalizers, presets, etc. That being said, there are reasons to go for the Hel 2 over the more specialized gaming dac/amps, one being the much, much easier to use functionality. You really can't mess up the usability here, while stuff like the G6 and X7 can at times be hampered by its software and driver issues. With the Hel 2, you plug it in, and it just works. Select it as the audio and/or mic device, and you're good to go. No fiddling with drivers, software, and confusing options. What you see, is what you get. That to me, is perfect. Outside of my love for virtual surround processing options, I tend not to bother with all other features on those types of dac/amps. So if and when I'm not worried about virtual surround applications, I find the Hel 2 to be a more ideal choice. Now that there are easily available virtual surround programs like Redscape and Waves NX, you don't even need an external device. The Hel 2 would work perfectly with those programs.

In terms of non-PC use, it's almost as if Schiit listened to me directly, as they did EXACTLY what I asked of them to do, on the original Hel review. Here's what I said (edited for specificity):

_"...the analog input takes care of (the) times when you need just an amplifier, though I believe as a gaming dac/amp, a digital toslink/spdif optical input would've greatly added to the Hel's functionality where it counts."_

and then,

_"I'd happily give up the analog input on (the Hel) for this, personally. For the Hel, I'm sure something can be done to add an optical input in the future, which would allow the Hel to compete in the console space."_

That is exactly what Schiit has done, allowing the Hel 2 to easily function for PC or PS5, as well as any device with an optical output, like a smart TV. You can plug everything to your TV through HDMI, and just have the TV send out a digital signal to the Hel 2. That would take care of multiple devices, even an Xbox Series X (sans the microphone function).

Going back to the volume knobs, I just find them so much better in practicality over front mounted knobs, for devices as small as the Hel 2. You can essentially just rest your hands near the unit and adjust with your fingers, while front mounted knobs require a bit more effort. I don't know, I'm sure it's purely based on preference, but if Schiit placed volume knobs on top of all their mini solid state amps like the Magni, I'd be all over that. Yes, it means they'll have to sit on the top of whatever Schiit stack you have going on, but that's an easy choice to make. Even off center, I think a Magni with a top mounted knob on the right side with ventilation on the left would be wonderful. Maybe for a Magni 4. The Hel and Fulla are already covered.

The Hel has automatic switches when headphones are plugged in that mutes the rear outputs. While this is absolutely helpful and fine overall, I still think a manual switch would be better, if mainly because there may be some times when you use high gain for a headphone, and low gain on your speakers or other external devices. You may end up unplugging your headphones and find that your speakers are blaring way past your comfort level. I'm sure most people will exercise some caution and lower the volume before unplugging headphones. Just needed to bring that up.



*Connectivity*​*PC:*

On Windows, all you have to do is plug it in, and select the Hel 2 as your output device (as well as input device for the Microphone), and that's it. You can go to the sound control panel in windows sound settings, right click on the Hel 2, click on Properties, go to the Advanced tab, and change the default format to anything between 16bit/44khz, and oversampling up to 32bit/384khz.




*Optical Input:*

As far as optical input goes, make sure whatever device you have connected to the Hel 2 is outputting 2ch PCM/Stereo. Not Dolby Digital or DTS, or more than 2ch. I said this earlier, but if you're sending a digital signal that has been converted to virtual surround (like Creative's SBX from the G6's optical out), the process of converting 7.1 down to 2ch was done before being sent to the Hel 2, so it's totally fine.

Keep in mind that many TV's or other devices may send Dolby Digital or DTS by default, so you MUST change, or you'll get unpleasant digital noise from the Hel 2.




*Playstation 5:*

You simply plug the Hel 2's data usb port to any of the PS5's usb ports. I recommend using one of the rear usb ports on the PS5. The Type C input in front was dropping the signal every few seconds. Had zero issues on the rear ports. Not an issue with the Hel, but the PS5. Once connected, go to the sound settings. 3D Audio will work perfectly as well through the USB (not through HDMI currently).



The PS5 will also read the Hel 2 as a microphone device.




*Nintendo Switch:*

I no longer have a Nintendo Switch, but I was able to get it work through a USB dongle, and I'm sure the Switch would also pick up the Hel 2 when connected to the USB port. If I get a chance to update with an image in the future, I will.


*Xbox:*

Unfortunately, Microsoft uses proprietary codecs, which the Hel 2 doesn't support. Schiit would have to specifically pay for the license and make an Xbox only version of the Hel 2, which is probably not the best use of Schiit's time and money. At the very least, you can still rely on getting main audio from a TV which the Xbox console would likely be hooked up to. You won't be able to utilize the Hel 2 for voice chat through an Xbox.



*Amplification*​
Schiit has stated that the Hel 2 has received a 20% power increase over the original Hel, but that the rating is somewhat conservative and may hit closer to 50%. Considering the original Hel already had a pretty good amount of power for most headphones, this can only be seen as fantastic news, which will allow for even more headroom, and open up the possibility of driving a few more headphones.

I have no doubt you can drive even 600ohm headphones to ear shattering levels, though that doesn't account for synergy and quality of driving such a load. Still, I personally feel fine using the Hel 2 for any headphone I could think of except some harder to drive planars like the HE-4, HE6SE, and 600ohm Beyerdynamics.

Amusingly, with the units I have on hand, the original Hel has a slightly higher volume output relative to the Hel 2 at the same volume knob position. I'm sure it's an external factor, and not indicative of anything.





*Microphone*​
Below is a few tests being done comparing the Schiit Hel 2's mic input vs the original Hel, Creative G6, and Razer Blackshark V2's included USB dongle. As you will hear, they all sound great, so you shouldn't have any issues with microphones on the Hel 2.



These recordings were done through Audacity, and without any enhancements. No noise suppression, no voice morphs, nothing but raw mic input performance. The volume may be a bit low, as I had to compensate for the lowest volume output, and didn't realize I could raise mic volume through windows until after. So I apologize in advance if volume is low for you. Try to disregard the low volume output, and focus more on the quality of the mic recordings themselves. I tried my best to have them all at a similar volume range so as not to destroy your ears with wild fluctuations in volume.

All tests were done on the same day, same conditions, back to back, one after another.



Hel 2^



Hel 1^



Creative G6^



Blackshark V2 usb dongle^



*Sound*​
Outside of the instance where I found a noticeable difference between the original Modi and the Objective DAC (ODAC), I have never been someone to truly hear a meaningful difference out of all the DACs I have owned (this is why I tend to decline or stay away from doing DAC reviews). This does not change with the Hel 2. I don't have a reliable way to do quick and blind comparisons, so all I can say is that subjectively, the DAC sounds like I expect a good DAC to sound like, which is a silent noise floor, super clean, and without artifacting or errors due to the digital to analog conversion.

On the amplification side, as the Hel 2 is a solid state amp, I also don't expect to hear a drastic difference between the Hel 2 and the original Hel in terms of sonic characteristics. As such, I don't wanna make things up and write them down in a section full of hyperbole. I never had a problem with the original Hel's sound, and I certainly don't have a problem here.

I'm not one of those people that buys amps wanting them to impart anything to the sound (at least not solid state amps). I mainly just want an amp to do what is required, and that is to provide sufficient, clean power to the headphones attached to them. The Hel 2 has lower distortion and more power than the Hel. That is an easy win, as far as I'm concerned. If you want some majestic difference, consider a tube amp where you can somewhat tailor the sound to your liking. Even next to the Jotunheim 2 (which has more tactility, impact, and control, though the difference is still subtle), I don't feel like I'm missing anything (within reason) by using the Hel 2's amplifier with properly powered headphones.

If you want some hyperbolic statements on how this sounds smoother, richer, more precise, faster, more detailed, incisive, more open, or whatever buzzword you'd like to hear as it pertains to an amp or DAC you WON'T find it here. The Hel 2 as either a DAC to another amplifier or as a standalone DAC/AMP sounds great. Plain and simple.



*Personal Recommendations*​
If you have $200, (and in terms of Schiit products), you have a choice between a Hel 2, or a current gen Modi and Magni, or a Fulla for half the price. My recommendation lies purely on your exact needs. The Hel 2's major benefit over the Modi/Magni stack is the ability to use it with the Playstation 5 directly. Yes, you can use the Modi with the PS5 via HDMI to a TV and then optical out from the TV to the Modi, but you lose the Tempest 3D audio capabilities of the PS5 (which I feel is absolutely essential, and a fantastic addition to virtual surround processing technology).

The other large benefit over the mini stack is the analog microphone input. The Hel 2 will read as an audio device where both main audio and microphone capabilities will work at the same time. You can't do this with a Modi. Sure you can hear main audio, but you'll have to rely on either using the controller input for the mic (which is actually more of a hassle to set up, or use another microphone device). All I'll say is that you will definitely want the Hel 2 over the mini stack if voice chat is of any importance to you, period.

The final benefit the Hel 2 has over the mini stack is that it's an all in one unit. Much easier to lug around, and less cables required as well.

I definitely see the Hel 2 as a perfect device for home or office use. Considering it also has a manual mic gain adjustability, I'd keep it around even if you have better amps or dacs. It makes life so much simpler if you ever use microphones or headsets.

I currently have a Modius as my main DAC and a Jotunheim 2 as my main amplifier at home. I'd still keep a Hel below my monitor, which I would use to plug in my headsets when needed. It's convenience in a small package. Then when I'm not voice chatting, I'll go back to my Modius/Jotunheim with my normal headphones. Sure, it's overkill, but for someone like me, I find the Hel 2 being more essential compared to the much bigger Modius/Jotunheim 2 stack. Maybe a Helius in the future, Schiit? A bigger amp/dac with a mic input. Hmm...the possibilities.

I'd recommend the Modi/Magni over the Hel 2 if you have no use for the microphone input, or if you don't plan on playing on a PS5, particularly with Tempest 3D Audio. You can still use the Modi/Magni connected to a TV. They just won't be natively supported on the PS5.

If you mainly want something for a laptop and need it to be completely portable, I think going with the Schiit Fulla wouldn't be a bad idea over the Hel 2, though only if you don't plan on using harder to drive headphones. The Fulla packs plenty of power for many headphones, just don't go trying to press your luck. The Fulla has the benefit of only needing one cable to a laptop, while the Hel needs a separate power adapter. It also has a mic input, though mic gain will have to be adjusted by your source.



*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes:*

Build, Color
Mic gain knob
Type C Inputs and physical switches
Red power indicator inside chassis
Top mounted volume knob, no scratchy noise on headphone when adjusting volume
Clean sound, no noise floor
Simple/easy to use
UAC1/UAC2 auto switching, meaning PS5 support (Tempest 3D Audio included)
Optical input, meaning much more device options (like Televisions) compared to original Hel


*Dislikes:*

Unlike the Fulla, still requires external power



*Final Impressions*​
Schiit has done it again. The Hel 2 is a dramatic improvement over the original Hel, and absolutely worth the upgrade. This can even go so far as being the only dac/amp you'd realistically ever need for most headphones.

When I reviewed the original Hel, I said:

_"I believe once Schiit revises (the Hel) and adds an optical input, it will be a serious contender as my most recommended dac/amp for unprocessed stereo gamers, as it will greatly expand its connectivity. Even us virtual surround users will be able to pipe audio digitally to the Hel."_

Well, that time is now. The Hel 2 has addressed exactly what I felt was lacking in the original, and went a few steps further. The Hel 2 has more power, less distortion, more versatility and is reasonably all you'd ever need as an all in one desktop audio solution. Sure, it's not 'feature-rich'. You won't find accompanying software that hosts an equalizer, chat options, or sound presets. No. It eschews all that to give you the basics. Plug it in, and you get excellent sound for your PC, console, and other devices like televisions. No fiddling with software, no confusing options, nothing to detract from the simplicity of it all. Everything that'd you'd need to adjust is on the unit itself. Nothing more, nothing less. That's it, and that's perfectly fine.


----------



## illram

duranxv said:


> That's very helpful.  Thanks!  Now the question is:  Stick with the G6/AE-9 or get the new GC7 because it carries SXFi over optical...


SXFi works on top of decoded Dolby coming in via optical but it does not send it out via optical. It doesn't send it out at all actually. As far as line out capabilities the G6 and GC7 are exactly the same. GC7 only edges it out with ease of use due to on board buttons and bluetooth control with your phone.


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## JES

@Mad Lust Envy Thanks for the review. I especially liked the microphone comparison.

You mentioned that it comes with a headset audio/mic splitter. I didn't see one in the description on the Schiit website so I ordered one separately. We'll see if I get two of them.

Regarding build, would you say that this thing is heavy enough and has rubber feet with enough friction that I won't have to worry about it sliding around when adjusting volume?


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## Chastity

Been listening to a new set of M1070, and just wanted to blurb in on the gaming aspects.  These headphones are definitely energetic, and fun; quite immersive.  And I thought the DT-1990 were energetic, in comparison they're a bit laid back to the M1070.  You have a good soundstage size, a little wider than DT-1990, but not so much as say the Sony MDR-SA5000.  Imaging is a little different compared to dynamic drivers, but no details get lost in the sound, so it layers very well.  It's not gentle in the treble, but not sibilant, so footstep stalkers will be happy.

Just note the headphone is very engaging, and mids are very intimate and can be up front, meaning you can get startled sometimes.  Waves NX had no issue with these, and panning from left to right was distinct.  Tho with 5.1 music, I preferred Redscape.  Weight wise, they're 580g but I really don't notice it, and I've worn them for about 7 hours now.  Had to adjust the clamp force to my liking, as by default they're a little too polite.

And with the current pricing of $239 at their Ebay store and walmart.com, this is a no brainer.  I see many posts here and on r/HeadphoneAdvice looking for great gaming cans for $200.

And the music aspects also are very good too.


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## Mad Lust Envy

JES said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Thanks for the review. I especially liked the microphone comparison.
> 
> You mentioned that it comes with a headset audio/mic splitter. I didn't see one in the description on the Schiit website so I ordered one separately. We'll see if I get two of them.
> 
> Regarding build, would you say that this thing is heavy enough and has rubber feet with enough friction that I won't have to worry about it sliding around when adjusting volume?



You'll def be fine since the top mounted knob means you need very little to adjust volume. I'll have to ask Jason about the headset splitter. This one came with one...


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## Qupie (Apr 8, 2021)

JES said:


> Was notified that my Hel 2 shipped today. Obviously well before May 20th. The last POS I ordered took six days to crawl to MI, so hopefully I should be able to plug it in next week.


Well shiit, same here LMAO....

And I just received my G6 today (I canceled my Hel 2 2 days ago and ordered the G6 (b-stock), but they clearly haven't seen my cancelation email...) Now I am kind of on the fence what to do lol. I kind of started planning to get the G6 and buy a Jottenheim/Magnius Modius later when the Hel 2 got pushed back 6 weeks.... But on the other hand, the Hel looks way better (although I am pleasantly suprised by the G6, especially for only 80 euros).

Do you notice some sound differences between the Hel 2 and G6 @Mad Lust Envy? I think I want to keep the Hel, and postpone my other amp plans. I think I will be able to sell both on the 2nd hand market either way (or just return the G6). 

Maybe I should have been a little bit more patient.... but you guys know how it goes when researching new goodies  


p.s. have you noticed any of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Schiit/comments/mmcszj/hel_2_intermittent_popping_sound/ Got me kind of worried...


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## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 8, 2021)

Qupie said:


> Well shiit, same here LMAO....
> 
> And I just received my G6 today (I canceled my Hel 2 2 days ago and ordered the G6 (b-stock), but they clearly haven't seen my cancelation email...) Now I am kind of on the fence what to do lol. I kind of started planning to get the G6 and buy a Jottenheim/Magnius Modius later when the Hel 2 got pushed back 6 weeks.... But on the other hand, the Hel looks way better (although I am pleasantly suprised by the G6, especially for only 80 euros).
> 
> ...


I didn't comparisons, since I haven't used the G6 as an amp in a long time. IIRC, the G6 is a little on the sharper, more dry side if only slightly.

Both are great, though obviously, the Hel 2 puts out much, MUCH more power.

They're very different though. The G6 is throw everything and the kitchen sink in terms of features, while the Hel 2 is as simple as they come. I find value in both, though I like it more on the simple side.


----------



## Qupie

Yeah I am honestly surprised by the sound quality of the G6, but I agree with the dry yet somewhat sharp signature. Since I am not going to use a multi-channel input or any of the other features of the G6, I think am going to go with the Schiit.


----------



## Chastity

When I compare my G6 to my SMSL M300 MKII (AK4497) the biggest difference that hits me is that the G6 sounds very grainy.  The SMSL is very smooth in comparison, and has a lot more impulse filters to fine tune your setup with.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm gonna spoil something upcoming... because I'm that astounded:

Honestly, even at $700, the Elex might be the greatest headphone I'd ever heard. Easily. Like what? 8XX? Nah son. Elex. They're just special. It's like if they took the 6XX, dialed it up to 11, made it a little more neutral, and more lively and detailed up top, and deeper sounding down low.

Like... if this is Focal.... I am a FAN.

Of course, I haven't heard the other offerings, but at $700, or even less used... the Elex is the one. I can't think of a better open backed headphone in terms of overall sound.

One thing I did notice is how much the sound changes depending on how much the pads press down. So I, without any knowledge of homework believe people will find them to sound different on a head to head basis, all reliant on how much the pads have compressed. If I slightly press down, they change completely. Still... I'm fanboying right now.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm gonna spoil something upcoming... because I'm that astounded:
> 
> Honestly, even at $700, the Elex might be the greatest headphone I'd ever heard. Easily. Like what? 8XX? Nah son. Elex. They're just special. It's like if they took the 6XX, dialed it up to 11, made it a little more neutral, and more lively and detailed up top, and deeper sounding down low.
> 
> ...


Wait until you need Customer Support from Focal.  They delegate it to their retailers, and I have read about some very draconian RMA refusals, where the retailer just flat out says no because they claim that the user broke them.  (In one example, it was a left driver failure)

Did I also mention the $200 price tag on pad replacements?  Now I know Drop sells pads for the Elex for $60, when they are available.  But order them from Focal, and BAM!

MLE:  The M1070 are $239 at the moment and I think they'll compete well with those Elex.  (Ebay store or walmart.com)  You should give those a gander.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 8, 2021)

Highly doubt the M1070 sounds like this. I do appreciate the M1070 sharing a nigh identical headband structure though, lol.


----------



## illram (Apr 8, 2021)

All I want out of my gaming headphone is TOTL imaging, detail retrieval and a large soundstage. Hence the HD800S remains king of my personal hill, and the only thing I ever really think of replacing it with is some STAX. But I have been curious about the Elex for a long long time based on other things I have read so I am looking forward to your review, especially now that you've tried the HD8XX.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> SXFi works on top of decoded Dolby coming in via optical but it does not send it out via optical. It doesn't send it out at all actually. As far as line out capabilities the G6 and GC7 are exactly the same. GC7 only edges it out with ease of use due to on board buttons and bluetooth control with your phone.


So the GC7 does Decode 5.1 Dolby signal coming in from PS4 / PS5 and other consoles?



illram said:


> All I want out of my gaming headphone is TOTL imaging, detail retrieval and a large soundstage. Hence the HD800S remains king of my personal hill, and the only thing I ever really think of replacing it with is some STAX. But I have been curious about the Elex for a long long time based on other things I have read so I am looking forward to your review, especially now that you've tried the HD8XX.


Did you ever try the Hifiman Arya? It has TOTL imaging.


----------



## illram

jincuteguy said:


> So the GC7 does Decode 5.1 Dolby signal coming in from PS4 / PS5 and other consoles?


Yep. But has to be via SPDIF in.

I don't know why but from my Xbox S SPDIF there was a weird electrical buzzing (but Dolby light was on and SXFI remained on) and I thought I had a faulty unit, but using my TV's SPDIF worked flawlessly. I.e. setting console to bitstream to TV and having TV passthrough Dolby. Might have just been something weird with my console or unit, not sure.


jincuteguy said:


> Did you ever try the Hifiman Arya? It has TOTL imaging.


Did not. Curious about those too. What is the Arya an update of? I have the HiFiman 400i, 560, and the Massdrop Edition XX. I love them all but HD800S still edges them out one way or another.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Arya is a side-grade at best for these qualities.

HE-1000SE is the better option. Has better extension down low, especially in the subbass region and places objects a good deal sharper. Stage is less wide but deeper and quite a bit less diffuse.


----------



## illram

Fegefeuer said:


> Arya is a side-grade at best for these qualities.
> 
> HE-1000SE is the better option. Has better extension down low, especially in the subbass region and places objects a good deal sharper. Stage is less wide but deeper and quite a bit less diffuse.


Yes I was eyeing those in a for sale thread actually yesterday, lol. Damn this hobby.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> Yep. But has to be via SPDIF in.
> 
> I don't know why but from my Xbox S SPDIF there was a weird electrical buzzing (but Dolby light was on and SXFI remained on) and I thought I had a faulty unit, but using my TV's SPDIF worked flawlessly. I.e. setting console to bitstream to TV and having TV passthrough Dolby. Might have just been something weird with my console or unit, not sure.
> 
> Did not. Curious about those too. What is the Arya an update of? I have the HiFiman 400i, 560, and the Massdrop Edition XX. I love them all but HD800S still edges them out one way or another.


The Arya is an alternative to HD800s, but with planar magnetic.  Arya won't beat out the HD800s in Soundstage, but the Imaging is better on the Arya.


----------



## Vinssy

Hi everyone !
I recently ordered the AD700X and the PC38X, which one would you recommend for pure FPS only ? (99% Valorant) since I have an Audeze Penrose for solo games and immersive games. I am going to receive the AD700X tomorrow and ordered PC38X on amazon (I am from France) and it will be shipped the 04/19.
I read AD700X is better on a topic, and then PC38X... so I’m a bit lost...


----------



## PurpleAngel

Vinssy said:


> Hi everyone !
> I recently ordered the AD700X and the PC38X, which one would you recommend for pure FPS only ? (99% Valorant) since I have an Audeze Penrose for solo games and immersive games. I am going to receive the AD700X tomorrow and ordered PC38X on amazon (I am from France) and it will be shipped the 04/19.
> I read AD700X is better on a topic, and then PC38X... so I’m a bit lost...


The PC38X is a headset (built in mic) the AD700X is just a headphone (no mic).
Do you need a mic function?


----------



## JES

Vinssy said:


> Hi everyone !
> I recently ordered the AD700X and the PC38X, which one would you recommend for pure FPS only ? (99% Valorant) since I have an Audeze Penrose for solo games and immersive games. I am going to receive the AD700X tomorrow and ordered PC38X on amazon (I am from France) and it will be shipped the 04/19.
> I read AD700X is better on a topic, and then PC38X... so I’m a bit lost...


I use a PC38X for COD WZ and Battlefield. I have good results for footstep location identification (my most important surround sound criteria) as well as other game sounds. The mic works well for cross-platform in-game chat as well as Discord. I can't speak to the AD700X.


----------



## Vinssy

PurpleAngel said:


> The PC38X is a headset (built in mic) the AD700X is just a headphone (no mic).
> Do you need a mic function?


Not really, I already have a good mic, and I plan to buy a dynamic mic to start streaming, so I won’t use the mic from the PC38X, except if its kinda good. 



JES said:


> I use a PC38X for COD WZ and Battlefield. I have good results for footstep location identification (my most important surround sound criteria) as well as other game sounds. The mic works well for cross-platform in-game chat as well as Discord. I can't speak to the AD700X.


Thanks for your reply, I will try the AD700X, if I am not seeing good results, or I’m not satisfied with it, I’ll keep the PC38X (coming early May).


----------



## JES

Lol @Mad Lust Envy 's comment on their competitive prowess (10/10 - he says the X is similar):

_The AD700 ditches warmth, bass, and musicality for sheer performance and detail-whoring._


----------



## MBRuss

Hi folks, I have recently managed to get a PS5 and I'm just trying to sort out the audio for it.  On my PS4 I used an Astro mixamp (a fairly old one now, as I've been using it for years) and a set of 16ohm Beyerdynamic DT990's, with a modmic.

I initially bought the new Pulse 3D Headset, but I'm not keen on wireless headsets and it seemed a shame to stop using my Beyerdynamics as they're such a nice comfy headphone, so I sold it to a friend before even opening the box.

Anyway, Astro were unable to confirm if an older mixamp like mine would work with the Tempest 3D audio or not, plus I fancied upgrading the audio in general anyway.  I've got a copy of Spider-Man: Miles Morales, so really need to test it to see if the 3D audio seems to work properly, unless anyone here knows?

I have also been considering the Shiit Hel 2, but of course it doesn't have any surround sound functionality like the Mixamp.  As such, I presume I'd lose the surround effect if I went to the Hel 2, at least, for any games without the Tempest audio?

What options are there for getting a good amp/DAC and keeping the virtual surround sound?

I mostly play Warzone at the moment, so want an option with good positional audio.  I wouldn't mind an EQ and the ability to plug in my phone for a bit of music in the background as I game, but that's not essential.  My current mixamp doesn't have an EQ, so it's nothing I'd miss.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Vinssy

JES said:


> Lol @Mad Lust Envy 's comment on their competitive prowess (10/10 - he says the X is similar):
> 
> _The AD700 ditches warmth, bass, and musicality for sheer performance and detail-whoring._


Yeah, but apparently, the PC38X is so much better tuned, and the AD700X may be a bit outdated compared to it, that’s why I’m asking ahah. And he’s also using some VSS that I don’t so I’ll see. But like you said, I am 99.99999% sure if not 100% sure it will fit my needs !


----------



## JES

Vinssy said:


> Yeah, but apparently, the PC38X is so much better tuned, and the AD700X may be a bit outdated compared to it, that’s why I’m asking ahah. And he’s also using some VSS that I don’t so I’ll see. But like you said, I am 99.99999% sure if not 100% sure it will fit my needs !


I've A/B's the PC38X with and without VSS (Dolby Atmos). There's no question for me that with Atmos is better for locating sounds. It sounds better to me as well.

Fortunately for you, you'll be able to try them both headphones/headsets. Good luck!


----------



## MBRuss

Just seen this as well. Not sure if any good? Looks good for tweaking settings, but beyond that...

https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7#buy-menu


----------



## tmaxx123

MBRuss said:


> Just seen this as well. Not sure if any good? Looks good for tweaking settings, but beyond that...
> 
> https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7#buy-menu



What’d I’d do for a “GX7” with upgraded x7 internals, the ability to use my sparkos opamps, and host mode for my iPhone, and balanced output!
All while having the ability to mix audio and chat on the fly 🤤 

Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it’ll be awhile before we see any sort of x7 successor.


----------



## Chastity

tmaxx123 said:


> Unfortunately, I have a feeling that it’ll be awhile before we see any sort of x7 successor.


There is!  It's called dedicated audio hardware.  Once you leave consumer gamer hardware / soundcards, the possibilities really open up.


----------



## illram

Chastity said:


> There is!  It's called dedicated audio hardware.  Once you leave consumer gamer hardware / soundcards, the possibilities really open up.


Not if you like SXFI.


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> Not if you like SXFI.


We have Waves NX and Redscape for that.


----------



## illram

Chastity said:


> We have Waves NX and Redscape for that.


Yes I know. I prefer SXFI.


----------



## tmaxx123

Chastity said:


> We have Waves NX and Redscape for that.



Those can be used on ps5?


----------



## Chastity

tmaxx123 said:


> Those can be used on ps5?


No, those are for PC Master Race Gaming


----------



## JES

Chastity said:


> No, those are for PC Master Race Gaming


Lols ... I re-joined the master race back in August after a 27-year absence.

Question ... Waves NX and Redscape are better than Atmos?


----------



## tmaxx123

Chastity said:


> No, those are for PC Master Race Gaming



Ah gotcha, hence a need/want for a x7 successor 😉


----------



## UrsusMajor

illram said:


> OK, drumroll... the Sound Blaster GC7 DOES, I repeat DOES decode Dolby and then do SXFI for consoles. Via SPDIF in only. Tested on Xbox One S, and I also tested Dolby Digital out of my LG OLEDE65P SPDIF out. Dolby light goes on, SXFI light remains engaged. Huzzah!
> 
> Didn't actually try gaming to "test" it (haven't turned on my Xbox in ages so Warzone has like 5 gajillion GB updates before I could play, just scrolled around Netflix and the menu basically) but I see no reason why it wouldn't just sound like typical SXFI, since it is decoding to multi-channel PCM and then layering on the SXFI goodness, just like it does with SBX.
> 
> So, this is a pretty cool feature actually for this particular device. Creative you have sort of redeemed yourself!


This is really good news, thank you for testing it. I've been wanting to try SXFI on console for ages now, was holding out for that A16-esque SXFI TV thing Creative mentioned a while ago.

So if I'm following: the gc7 has an additional feature where you decode dolby digital, this must be enabled alongside SXFI. 
So you can receive dolby via optical into the gc7 from the TV and that will hopefully allow me to game in SXFI on my PS5

Was it difficult at all to get working properly on your XoS?
Also not sure why dd decoding would be needed on top as I thought SXFI did that anyway, and presumably the decoding feature does not need to be enabled for sxfi to work on your PC?


----------



## illram (Apr 11, 2021)

UrsusMajor said:


> This is really good news, thank you for testing it. I've been wanting to try SXFI on console for ages now, was holding out for that A16-esque SXFI TV thing Creative mentioned a while ago.
> 
> So if I'm following: the gc7 has an additional feature where you decode dolby digital, this must be enabled alongside SXFI.
> So you can receive dolby via optical into the gc7 from the TV and that will hopefully allow me to game in SXFI on my PS5
> ...


The only issue I had was there was some corruption of the DD signal from my Xbox into the GC7. I suspect this is some software issue as it worked fine if the DD signal came from my TV. (I.e. HDMI DD bitstream to TV, TV DD SPDIF passthrough out to GC7.)

DD decoding is necessary because SXFI needs a PCM signal to function, but SPDIF can only carry a compressed multichannel signal (i.e. DD or DTS). So the basic process is the console sends the compressed DD signal to the GC7, the GC7 decodes it to PCM multichannel, then it layers SXFI on that PCM signal.

I suppose one could set the console to output uncompressed multichannel audio over HDMI, then figure out a way to extract that multichannel PCM audio of of the HDMI signal and then feed that to the GC7 USB input. Then there would be no need for DD decoding.

You can't decode DD via USB from the PC though. But, no need for DD decoding from PC given USB can handle 7.1 PCM uncompressed.


----------



## Chastity

JES said:


> Lols ... I re-joined the master race back in August after a 27-year absence.
> 
> Question ... Waves NX and Redscape are better than Atmos?


Waves NX and Redscape both are capable of 7.1 VSS.  Dolby Access with an Atmos feed can do 7.4.1, with full 360 degree cues, including elevation.  (Same for DTS:X with DTS:X streams)  In regards to 7.1, NX and RS are Room Models, and can be very accurate, utilizing reflections and distance cues.  Dolby Access is a sphere model, and operates with an open field model.


----------



## MBRuss (Apr 12, 2021)

Chastity said:


> We have Waves NX and Redscape for that.


What's that? (Excuse my ignorance.)

Edit: Looks like software, which presumably you can't run on the PS5...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 12, 2021)

Ok guys so I decided to skip reviewing the Razer Blackshark V2, since I don't think many of you are interested. No reason to waste so many days writing a review no one will care about.

I will be doing the Focal Elex next, and I also went ahead and bought a pair of SHP9600s to use as my headset with the Boompro. Mainly because I just don't like wearing the Penrose for long periods. I want something that's comfort first, and I think you guys might be interested in the SHP9600.

I didn't go for the 9500 because I feel the tonal balance of the 9600 would suit my tastes more.

So Elex, then 9600, then some Schiit if it arrives...


----------



## Trancefreak

Chastity said:


> Waves NX and Redscape both are capable of 7.1 VSS.  Dolby Access with an Atmos feed can do 7.4.1, with full 360 degree cues, including elevation.  (Same for DTS:X with DTS:X streams)  In regards to 7.1, NX and RS are Room Models, and can be very accurate, utilizing reflections and distance cues.  Dolby Access is a sphere model, and operates with an open field model.


This is for a multi speaker setup, yes? If not, how does that translate to headphones? ( focus on elevation ).
I'm currently using a mobius with said Nx, and I'm curious if there's something universally better around yet .

Other question: I have this 600Ohm ( don't ask, I was stupid... ) 1st gen MMX300 from 2014. 
Since it's going on 7 years, how does it compare to current gen headsets like the Sen 38x and Beyer Tygr?

Excuse the spoonfeed, the MMx300 isn't that popular and not that many comparisons are made. Thank you for your patience


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 12, 2021)

Trancefreak said:


> This is for a multi speaker setup, yes? If not, how does that translate to headphones? ( focus on elevation ).
> I'm currently using a mobius with said Nx, and I'm curious if there's something universally better around yet .
> 
> Other question: I have this 600Ohm ( don't ask, I was stupid... ) 1st gen MMX300 from 2014.
> ...


The only reason it's not popular is because it was essentially a DT770 with a microphone at a very high price. However, it's STILL a great headset and I don't think you need to replace it with any headset. Other than the fact its 600ohm and you may need a good amp for it.


----------



## JES (Apr 12, 2021)

Trancefreak said:


> This is for a multi speaker setup, yes? If not, how does that translate to headphones? ( focus on elevation ).
> I'm currently using a mobius with said Nx, and I'm curious if there's something universally better around yet .
> 
> Other question: I have this 600Ohm ( don't ask, I was stupid... ) 1st gen MMX300 from 2014.
> ...


I hear people above and below me in WZ and Battlefield. Through my PC38X headset. As I did with my Astro A50s. I'm not sure if it's better than Waves NX or Redscape though, as I haven't tried them.


----------



## UrsusMajor

illram said:


> The only issue I had was there was some corruption of the DD signal from my Xbox into the GC7. I suspect this is some software issue as it worked fine if the DD signal came from my TV. (I.e. HDMI DD bitstream to TV, TV DD SPDIF passthrough out to GC7.)
> 
> DD decoding is necessary because SXFI needs a PCM signal to function, but SPDIF can only carry a compressed multichannel signal (i.e. DD or DTS). So the basic process is the console sends the compressed DD signal to the GC7, the GC7 decodes it to PCM multichannel, then it layers SXFI on that PCM signal.
> 
> ...


Ahh well that makes sense. Putting the GC7 on order! Only drawbacks I see are that for PS5 it will be compressed and limited to 5.1 vss.

In your experience, is there a significant improvement with 7.1 vss versus 5.1 vss?

Also want to ask if there's a noticeable audible difference when you tested it on console with compressed dd, vs uncompressed pcm on PC?


----------



## Chastity

Trancefreak said:


> This is for a multi speaker setup, yes? If not, how does that translate to headphones? ( focus on elevation ).
> I'm currently using a mobius with said Nx, and I'm curious if there's something universally better around yet


Atmos streams have 11 channels of direction, 4 of which are dedicated to above and below.  So the Virtualizer has more accurate info to work with to generate directional cues that go up and down with HRTF Stereo.  But as I stated, Dolby Access and DTS:X needs their high-end encoded streams to benefit from this.  (Great for movies)


----------



## Qupie

UrsusMajor said:


> Ahh well that makes sense. Putting the GC7 on order! Only drawbacks I see are that for PS5 it will be compressed and limited to 5.1 vss.
> 
> In your experience, is there a significant improvement with 7.1 vss versus 5.1 vss?
> 
> Also want to ask if there's a noticeable audible difference when you tested it on console with compressed dd, vs uncompressed pcm on PC?


Don't forget you need an optical output for that! So if you are gaming on a TV, you are probably fine. But with a monitor it might be more complicated.


----------



## illram

UrsusMajor said:


> Ahh well that makes sense. Putting the GC7 on order! Only drawbacks I see are that for PS5 it will be compressed and limited to 5.1 vss.
> 
> In your experience, is there a significant improvement with 7.1 vss versus 5.1 vss?
> 
> Also want to ask if there's a noticeable audible difference when you tested it on console with compressed dd, vs uncompressed pcm on PC?


Not a huge difference between 7.1 and 5.1 with good panning. Maybe a little less distance on rear cues. On 5.1 there's no rears, just left and right "surround" which translate to "a little behind your left/right ear" if something's firing right out of that speaker. But, if the audio engine is panning sounds well (correctly balancing right and left surround channels speakers to place a noise directly behind you, directly behind you) you should get almost the same effect as a 7.1 feed. 

I have always found SBX and SXFI excellent at using all the channels, rather than "forcing" stuff out of one channel or another.


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> I have always found SBX and SXFI excellent at using all the channels, rather than "forcing" stuff out of one channel or another.


So what about SBX and it's rear cues sounding way too similar to side cues?


----------



## Azzurro

Ok... So I got my HEL2 delivered today which was an excellent surprise 😁

How does it work with the PS5? I've tried all the ports and I can't get any sound out of it and it doesn't come up as an output device on the PS5 itself.

Help 🙃🙃🙃


----------



## illram (Apr 12, 2021)

Chastity said:


> So what about SBX and it's rear cues sounding way too similar to side cues?


I never had that problem. (I also always ran surround at full.) SBX to me always had a decent "behind you" cue for the generic VSS algorithm even with 5.1. But that's something I basically chalk up to HRTF individual peculiarities. It's inevitable that any generic HRTF algorithm just won't work for some. For example, Waves for me just did nothing. It's great there's so many more solutions out there these days, this niche has come a long way since MLE started this thread!


----------



## JES

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You'll def be fine since the top mounted knob means you need very little to adjust volume. I'll have to ask Jason about the headset splitter. This one came with one...


Received my Hel 2 today. I ordered a TRRS Kit (headset splitter) separately. I received two in the box, so it does come with one already.

I haven't put the Hel through its paces in game yet, but preliminarily the sound is significantly better than the headset jack on my PC. And the mic sounds very good with my rough tests and adjustments, also a large improvement.

Two problems though. Neither is a showstopper. One of the USB-C jacks on the back is pretty loose. I may try different cables to see if one is a tighter fit. The other issue is the mic gain adjustment. The turning isn't "smooth". There's no noise and no grinding. It's just pretty hard to turn at a certain point in the travel. It does seem to be loosening up though, so we'll see over time.


----------



## motorwayne

Chastity said:


> There is!  It's called dedicated audio hardware.  Once you leave consumer gamer hardware / soundcards, the possibilities really open up.


Not if you like  CMSS-3D... the struggle is real!


----------



## Chastity

motorwayne said:


> Not if you like  CMSS-3D... the struggle is real!


Waves NX with proper head measurements is scary accurate, and very much the CMSS-3D successor.


----------



## motorwayne

Chastity said:


> Waves NX with proper head measurements is scary accurate, and very much the CMSS-3D successor.


Is it really? It sounded like an echo chamber to me, not really grounded and kinda artificial. What do you mean by proper head measurements?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Azzurro said:


> Ok... So I got my HEL2 delivered today which was an excellent surprise 😁
> 
> How does it work with the PS5? I've tried all the ports and I can't get any sound out of it and it doesn't come up as an output device on the PS5 itself.
> 
> Help 🙃🙃🙃


You also have to have the Hel plugged in to the wall. Then once it's on, go to sound devices and it should show up. Make sure the usb cables are data and not just for power.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Qupie said:


> Don't forget you need an optical output for that! So if you are gaming on a TV, you are probably fine. But with a monitor it might be more complicated.


Will be using optical out of my lg cx tv 

It's a shame the gc7 cant pass sxfi to a separate dac via optical or line out


----------



## duranxv

Does Waves NX and/or Redscape downsample bit rate for audio like Dolby and DTS do?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 12, 2021)

I ended up getting an opened SHP9600 when I bought new. So it's getting returned.

And I guess that's a good thing.

Not really liking the SHP9600. I def think the Razer Blackshark V2 sounds better, and it's cheaper. The 9600 sounds muffled. Should've just went with the X2HR.


----------



## Azzurro

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You also have to have the Hel plugged in to the wall. Then once it's on, go to sound devices and it should show up. Make sure the usb cables are data and not just for power.


Thanks dude, I actually did try that last night and got it running absolutely fine!

I just assumed that the PS5 could power it as well as providing the data (I had both USBs plugged into the PS5)

Hooked the power into the wall and the data into the PS5 and hey presto, we have lift-off!


----------



## Qupie

UrsusMajor said:


> Will be using optical out of my lg cx tv
> 
> It's a shame the gc7 cant pass sxfi to a separate dac via optical or line out



Cool, just make sure you set dolby as your ouput over HDMI on PS5, and let the TV pass dolby through optical. 

What does the GC7 do, that the G6 can't?


----------



## Chastity

motorwayne said:


> Is it really? It sounded like an echo chamber to me, not really grounded and kinda artificial. What do you mean by proper head measurements?


You need to go into settings, and there's a Info icon where the head measurements are.  This will open up a PDF with instructions on how to measure that noggin of yours, so that the cues will be accurate with the timings for your head.  Just use a nice cloth measuring tape.


duranxv said:


> Does Waves NX and/or Redscape downsample bit rate for audio like Dolby and DTS do?


Waves NX and Redscape support up to 32/96, so you shouldn't have to worry about resampling.  (Waves NX will just match your DAC settings, Redscape has manual selection option)  Dolby Access and DTS:X is limited to 24/48.


----------



## illram

Qupie said:


> Cool, just make sure you set dolby as your ouput over HDMI on PS5, and let the TV pass dolby through optical.
> 
> What does the GC7 do, that the G6 can't?


Main thing is SXFI for consoles. G6 is SBX only.


----------



## Vandarkholme (Apr 13, 2021)

My DT990 Pro 250ohms broke down due to "overdriving" as mentioned by the shop I bought it from and refuses to cover warranty while asking me to pay up $130 for the repair. I honestly don't remember abusing or even playing at max volume else, I should be deaf by now.
$130 is way too expensive and honestly, I'm considering buying an X2HR for that amount.

I haven't tried an X2HR yet so I just wanted to ask if it's worth it to buy that rather than repair my DT990 pro in a gaming perspective?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sounds like they're just trying to scam you into not fixing it.

I highly recommend the X2.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Just go directly to Beyerdynamic and skip the shop.


----------



## motorwayne

Chastity said:


> You need to go into settings, and there's a Info icon where the head measurements are.  This will open up a PDF with instructions on how to measure that noggin of yours, so that the cues will be accurate with the timings for your head.  Just use a nice cloth measuring tape.
> 
> Waves NX and Redscape support up to 32/96, so you shouldn't have to worry about resampling.  (Waves NX will just match your DAC settings, Redscape has manual selection option)  Dolby Access and DTS:X is limited to 24/48.


Okay so I got it working via the onboard sound port (for a while at least, it was kinda mental and temperamental) and lost the bass and treble control I was used to via the soundcard, is that why you were suggesting full mechanical adjustment via external amp/dac? In an open world game, the VOICE preset sounded better...I was using the FREE version for the test, does the paid version offer more customization presets or is that done with altering the head size?


----------



## Rilchu

Anybody tried the Mayflower Arc MK2 compared to the Schiit Hel2 yet? I have the Mk2 and like it a lot but I'm a sucker for gear and want to know how these 2 compare to each other.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> You need to go into settings, and there's a Info icon where the head measurements are.  This will open up a PDF with instructions on how to measure that noggin of yours, so that the cues will be accurate with the timings for your head.  Just use a nice cloth measuring tape.
> 
> Waves NX and Redscape support up to 32/96, so you shouldn't have to worry about resampling.  (Waves NX will just match your DAC settings, Redscape has manual selection option)  Dolby Access and DTS:X is limited to 24/48.



Awesome.  Between Waves NX and Redscape, which do you prefer?  I know generally you like SBX the most, but I figure I'd try some of these other options before I do an optical connection from the sound card to my external DAC for SBX.


----------



## Qupie (Apr 14, 2021)

So far really liking my Schiit Hel 2, only tested the headphone out (PC38x, Audioquest nightowl, Sivga SV006). Tested it for about 3 hours of music and 2 hours of gaming (warzone) yesterday.

Some observations:


Sound is very smooth yet refined.
Volume pot is very nice.
The switches feel very nice too, very analogue if that makes sense.
In general it looks really good, I personally am a stickler for red and black. The red is pretty subtle though. 
Nice packaging, everything was sealed. Nice USB-C cables.
Included 1/4 to 3.5 mm adapter is absolutely horrible, it looks very cheap and it was crooked too, its a joke. Weird schiit they went this way honestly, but whatever. Didn't sound bad or anything. The trrs to seperate mic/headphone cable looks so much better.
Works perfectly fine with laptop via USB hub (inside monitor).
Works perfectly fine with PS5, my friends didn't notice anything different in how my mic sounded (which is fine, it was pretty good with mixamp).
Channel imbalance travel on volume is pretty short. 8 o clock and it is already gone. Haven't noticed any issues, because all headphones wanted more volume than that. (haven't tested IEMs, can try if someone would like to)
10 o clock is the most I have used so far, on low gain, on PC38x / nightowl / Sivga SV006
Sound while gaming was very crisp. No chat audio mix knob is a small drawback to mixamp, but I think that would be impossible with only 1 input (USB). The PS5 chat/game audio mix slider is not hard to reach and is sufficient imho.
Surprised how well Schiit/FedEx handled shipping to EU, heard a lot of horror stories about FedEx but it was here in 6 days, with a completely intact box (FedEx International Priority)

Some small quirks:


When starting the unit, the red light comes up for a second, then dimms for a second and then stays on. I assume this is normal
The case, including volume knob is pretty sensitive for static energy. I shocked it twice yesterday. One time the device stopped, one time only the left channel stopped.... Had me worried but a power cycle fixed it. Is this something to worry about? I guess I need to stop wearing shoos with rubber soles.
The USB-C ports are a little big. Some cables will fall out really easy. Some others are fine though. The supplied USB-C fit fine also but a little short for my wall power. These fit very well https://www.amazon.nl/USB-Oplaadkabel-1M-snellaadkabel-C-apparaten/dp/B08GR8SG56/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&qid=1618389527&refinements=p_4:Cabepow&s=electronics&sr=1-8
Comparison to Soundblaster G6 (bought B-stock when Hel was delayed):


Sound of the hell seemed a little bit more relaxed and refined. But after trying to A/B a few songs for an hour, I am honestly not sure if there is a difference. There might be, but it is small.
G6 volume knob is horrible if you have sensitive headphones (I was at windows volume 2 sometimes...). Constant fear of blowing up my headphones/ears if I accidentally would put it at full volume. Also really hard to make the volume exactly what you want, since the only playroom was between 2 and 12 or so. I am old-school, I like to keep my windows volume at 100 and do volume control in the analogue domain (even though I don't think that matters anymore nowadays)
Hell looks 10x as good, dare I say sexy.
Hell has more power for sure, but I personally don't need it.
The Hell was 3 times as expensive as the G6, but still decided to keep it and return the G6, I guess looks and usability are more important than I thought!
Overal the G6 is an insane value buy on B-Stock (it is on B-stock right now in EU store).
If anyone has anything specific to test etc please let me know


----------



## Qupie

Vandarkholme said:


> My DT990 Pro 250ohms broke down due to "overdriving" as mentioned by the shop I bought it from and refuses to cover warranty while asking me to pay up $130 for the repair. I honestly don't remember abusing or even playing at max volume else, I should be deaf by now.
> $130 is way too expensive and honestly, I'm considering buying an X2HR for that amount.
> 
> I haven't tried an X2HR yet so I just wanted to ask if it's worth it to buy that rather than repair my DT990 pro in a gaming perspective?



I don't know where you live, but I think in EU they are the ones who have to proof you broke it by abusing the product, at least within the first year. 
I would go back to the shop asking them to show you why/how they conclude you overdrove it. If they are not providing any more service I would email Beyerdynamic for sure with your story.


----------



## JES (Apr 14, 2021)

Qupie said:


> So far really liking my Schiit Hel 2, only tested the headphone out (PC38x, Audioquest nightowl, Sivga SV006). Tested it for about 3 hours of music and 2 hours of gaming (warzone) yesterday.
> 
> Some observations:
> 
> ...


Nice write-up 

I'll echo most of your observations. I only run mine from PC via USB.  I've used it direct to the PC (2020 AW M15 R3), and currently through a powered hub, with no discernible difference between the two .

I used it for about five hours last night in WZ, and here's my take so far.

- Windows recognizes this thing right away.
- Volume between 10:00 and 11:30 at high gain with volume on PC38X set at about 2/3. Windows volume at 100%. The thing has plenty of power. Someday when I'm bored I'll hook up my LCD-2Cs.
- Mic gain at about 11:30 with level in Windows set at 50%. Friends said it sounded "fine", but I didn't press them for details. Nobody complained, which is ultimately what matters. When I tested with mic-test.com I noticed I sounded much better compared to the headset jack on my PC. Fuller, cleaner (I'm bad at describing sound). This goes for Discord and in-game chat.
- In-game WZ sounded the best it ever has for me. Not that WZ sounds that good to begin with IMO.
- Positional cues via Dolby Atmos were very good. I do need to tweak my eq to accentuate footsteps a bit more to my liking, but running my settings used for the headset jack were pretty close.
- I enjoyed the big smooth volume control. Much better than a control on the headset.
- Mine shipped on a Wednesday and arrived on the following Monday in good condition from Schiit to Michigan.
- My 1/8 to 1/4 adapter was in fine shape, but not the nicest one I've ever seen. I'm using the included TRRS adapter and it works fine.
- The thing runs cool. Not like my Jot 2.

Negatives and quirks:
- USB ports are loose ... looking for a solution.
- Mic gain knob was "uneven" when new and hard to turn in spots. That's loosening up nicely though.
- Running Atmos, I'm limited to 24/48KHz which is ok. If I try to set it higher, Atmos is disabled. If I set it lower, latency is introduced. It's hard to quantify, but I'm guessing at least 250 ms. Unacceptable for a FPS. For a hot minute I was about ready to pack this up and send it back, but I figured it out.

In less than an hour last night, I sorta forgot about the thing. The sound was good, I was able to dial everything in, and nobody said "huh ... what the hell did you just say?". It disappeared and I was able to focus on getting wrecked in WZ. Which is a good thing. Overall, I'd say it's definitely worth the asking price.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 14, 2021)

The reason Atmos caps at 48khz, is because it's taking from a basic source and converting those channels down to 2.1. anything higher would be of the high res variety like Dolby Digital EX, or DTS-HD or whatever. Virtual surround doesn't work with those.

Every virtual surround device either changes to 48khz or won't allow virtual surround to work. Like the X7/G6/Xonar U3, etc.

For one, these things were originally made to be piped through spdif, which only has so much bandwidth. You can do two channel at 24/192 (iirc), or 5.1 at 48khz. So my guess Atmos for Headphones adheres to a bandwidth limitation.


----------



## JES

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The reason Atmos caps at 48khz, is because it's taking from a 7.1 source and converting those 7.1 channels down to 2.1. anything higher would be of the high res variety like Dolby Digital EX, or DTS-HD or whatever. Virtual surround doesn't work with those. It'll look for the basic containers DD or DTS.
> 
> Every virtual surround device either changes to 48khz or won't allow virtual surround to work. Like the X7/G6/Xonar U3, etc.


 I went through almost a day of troubleshooting figuring this out. I tried everything I could think of. I learned a lot along the way though, so it wasn't time wasted.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 14, 2021)

Yeah regardless of Atmos Headphone marketing, virtual surround is taking information from a set amount of virtual speakers. I don't know much about high res surround audio, but I do know virtual surround dsps limit themselves to standard res audio due to how many channels they must take from.

There'd be no point to giving us a 24/96khz or higher choice when the original signals were all lower res. Maybe oversampling, though I dunno how that'd function for virtual surround.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> - Positional cues via Dolby Atmos were very good. I do need to tweak my eq to accentuate footsteps a bit more to my liking, but running my settings used for the headset jack were pretty close.



I just saw this the other day which was very detailed imho. Always too lazy to do it myself (especially because on console, but lets be real, mostly just laziness).  His quoted frequency ranges are quite a bit lower than I expected honestly, and I personally wouldn't introduce a dip just for gulach, but I think it would be a nice starting point at least. I guess that is the other drawback for using a Hel over the G6 on console, but I didn't really do any EQ anyway.  



JES said:


> - USB ports are loose ... looking for a solution.



Even with the USB cables they provided? Because they are very snug for my unit. On the other hand, some phone cables were horrible for sure.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> ... His quoted frequency ranges are quite a bit lower than I expected honestly, and I personally wouldn't introduce a dip just for gulach, but I think it would be a nice starting point at least. I guess that is the other drawback for using a Hel over the G6 on console, but I didn't really do any EQ anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Even with the USB cables they provided? Because they are very snug for my unit. On the other hand, some phone cables were horrible for sure.


Great video. Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't bumped that far in the 150 range yet, but I'll give that a try. I do already run with the dip he mentioned. An advantage of PC over console ... being able to use a more advanced Parametric EQ like Equalizer APO that he mentioned (I use it with the Peace interface).

I'm using the cables that came with the Schiit. They're very loose. I will keep looking for a solution.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> I'm using the cables that came with the Schiit. They're very loose. I will keep looking for a solution.



Hmm that is a bummer, if so, the cables I linked won't really help either I think. They are just a little bit more tight than the supplied cables.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Hmm that is a bummer, if so, the cables I linked won't really help either I think. They are just a little bit more tight than the supplied cables.


I put them in my wish list as a possible alternative.


----------



## illram (Apr 14, 2021)

On the subject of Warzone/Modern Warfare audio (same engine so applicable to both) the thing that drives me bonkers with that game is how multiple "things" happening at once (e.g., an airstrike, gunshots, clusters, truck driving by) does not just muffle or drown out footstep audio, it completely eliminates it for whatever arbitrary amount of time that particular audio track plays. So like in a normal situation as a cluster strike is happening, sure, you shouldn't hear even very loud footsteps, but as the sound dies down whatever audio file that sound is playing from is (I am explaining this non-technically) basically completely eliminating the footstep track from playing, it is just non existent. Or even if it is a quieter noise or something where you should still hear the footsteps, even a little, nope. Nothing. Just on/off. Super annoying.

This is on top of all the other inconsistencies I have with that game's audio, mainly centered on inconsistent footstep audio vis a vis various textures and geometry (like walking on a wooden floor right underneath you is whisper quiet, but walking on a stone floor in the prison 30 feet below and through thick stone walls sounds like a freight train), and/or how audio occlusion by the map geometry is sometimes just totally weird and inconsistent. (E.g. in some areas you move one foot to the left of a window or a room and boom, hear outside loud and clear, move back and it's all muffled or gone, or how if you're inside it is harder to hear the guy outside versus he can hear you perfectly inside while he is outside from the same distance and vice versa, or how a rustling bush from 20 feet was louder than a running footfall, stuff like that.

You basically had to memorize not just the map of Verdansk but how each building and area sounded with its individual pecularities.


----------



## JES

JES said:


> ...
> - In-game WZ sounded the best it ever has for me.* Not that WZ sounds that good to begin with IMO.*





illram said:


> On the subject of Warzone/Modern Warfare audio (same engine so applicable to both) the thing that drives me bonkers with that game is how multiple "things" happening at once (e.g., an airstrike, gunshots, clusters, truck driving by) does not just muffle or drown out footstep audio, it completely eliminates it for whatever arbitrary amount of time that particular audio track plays. So like in a normal situation as a cluster strike is happening, sure, you shouldn't hear even very loud footsteps, but as the sound dies down whatever audio file that sound is playing from is (I am explaining this non-technically) basically completely eliminating the footstep track from playing, it is just non existent. Or even if it is a quieter noise or something where you should still hear the footsteps, even a little, nope. Nothing. Just on/off. Super annoying.
> 
> This is on top of all the other inconsistencies I have with that game's audio, mainly centered on inconsistent footstep audio vis a vis various textures and geometry (like walking on a wooden floor right underneath you is whisper quiet, but walking on a stone floor in the prison 30 feet below and through thick stone walls sounds like a freight train), and/or how audio occlusion by the map geometry is sometimes just totally weird and inconsistent. (E.g. in some areas you move one foot to the left of a window or a room and boom, hear outside loud and clear, move back and it's all muffled or gone, or how if you're inside it is harder to hear the guy outside versus he can hear you perfectly inside while he is outside from the same distance and vice versa, or how a rustling bush from 20 feet was louder than a running footfall, stuff like that.
> 
> You basically had to memorize not just the map of Verdansk but how each building and area sounded with its individual pecularities.


Totally agree. If there's one negative with improving audio hardware and then playing warzone, it's that the poor audio becomes more obvious.


----------



## illram

JES said:


> Totally agree. If there's one negative with improving audio hardware and then playing warzone, it's that the poor audio becomes more obvious.


Yes! Exactly.


----------



## Qupie

Honestly, I don't think warzone sounds worst than other online multiplayer games I have played past years (Overwatch, Destiny, Apex).

The effect you describe is very real though. I have a feeling it must be some kind of bandwidth limitation or something? Purely guessing here. Once x amount of sounds are played, others cannot be played. Same thing happened in Apex when some legends used their ults. 

Its more an exception when a game handles audio well, sadly.


----------



## Chastity (Apr 14, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Awesome.  Between Waves NX and Redscape, which do you prefer?  I know generally you like SBX the most, but I figure I'd try some of these other options before I do an optical connection from the sound card to my external DAC for SBX.


I like SBX the least.  The rear cues and side cues sound too similar to each other.  Waves NX, with measurements, is spot on crazy good for gaming, not so good for 5.1 music.  Redscape is better for 5.,1 music, and I am still fiddling with it in gaming, as the measurement sliders are counter-intuitive, and require in-game experimenting.  Otherwise, Redscape is pretty solid with defaults, and a bit more flushed out as an application.

On a side note, I did a mini-review of the M1070:  M1070 Review


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> I like SBX the least.  The rear cues and side cues sound too similar to each other.  Waves NX, with measurements, is spot on crazy good for gaming, not so good for 5.1 music.  Redscape is better for 5.,1 music, and I am still fiddling with it in gaming, as the measurement sliders are counter-intuitive, and require in-game experimenting.  Otherwise, Redscape is pretty solid with defaults, and a bit more flushed out as an application.
> 
> On a side note, I did a mini-review of the M1070:  M1070 Review



Oh, my bad.  Thanks!  I'll have to try Redscape out


----------



## JES (Apr 15, 2021)

Chastity said:


> I like SBX the least.  The rear cues and side cues sound too similar to each other.  Waves NX, with measurements, is spot on crazy good for gaming, not so good for 5.1 music.  Redscape is better for 5.,1 music, and I am still fiddling with it in gaming, as the measurement sliders are counter-intuitive, and require in-game experimenting.  Otherwise, Redscape is pretty solid with defaults, and a bit more flushed out as an application.
> 
> On a side note, I did a mini-review of the M1070:  M1070 Review


Nice review. I wouldn't exactly call it mini. It was quite detailed. 



JES said:


> ... I'm using the included TRRS adapter and it works fine ...


Strike that. It sorta fell apart yesterday afternoon. I noticed it because one of the channels faded away. I was able to "push" it back together, but it's not good. I had ordered a second and I'm using that for now. I ordered a better one from somewhere else as these are too flimsy.



Qupie said:


> I just saw this the other day which was very detailed imho. Always too lazy to do it myself (especially because on console, but lets be real, mostly just laziness).  His quoted frequency ranges are quite a bit lower than I expected honestly, and I personally wouldn't introduce a dip just for gulach, but I think it would be a nice starting point at least. I guess that is the other drawback for using a Hel over the G6 on console, but I didn't really do any EQ anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Even with the USB cables they provided? Because they are very snug for my unit. On the other hand, some phone cables were horrible for sure.



I ran with the footstep bump as he instructed. Nice improvement. Especially footsteps in the distance. Good advice.


----------



## Kronk

Hello honored hifi-heads! Sorry for the long incoherent post and bless you, if you are able to make sense of it!
I've been rocking a pair of AKG ear buds worth 10$ for years now and I thought it was time to try something else! I have been looking at reviews and comparisons for the last 2 weeks and I would love to make a decision soon, I am getting consumed by using so much time on trying to decide!
I do not have any sort of DAC or AMP. I don't play FPS at a competitive level, but loads of singleplayer RPG's and open world games, the only FPS I play is Hunt: Showdown and even my 10$ earbuds manages to make use of the spatial sound to create pretty good imaging in that game. It seems like Beyerdynamics DT-990 has better sound imaging than the Fidelio X2HR but it seems like you sacrifice some of the "fun"/"entertainment" for that extra competitive edge. 
Music tastes are all over the place, not 1 genre that overshadows the others comes to mind.
I have decided on open-back headphones for the soundstage, having a budget around *160-200$*, which will be used as a multi-purpose pair of headphones for both gaming, entertainment and music. I was considering getting a ModMic or V-moda boompro for the headphones that support a 3,5 mm.
Sadly I haven't got the slightest clue as to what kind of "house-sound" I like (E.G. Beyerdynamics, Sennheiser,). 
Pricing is a bit weird in Denmark, sadly the Sennheisers (was looking at Hd58x and Pc37x or Pc38x from Drop) all demand a 50$ import tax. 
Can't seem to find the *SHP9500* anywhere either.

These are the available choices that I have narrowed it down to: 
160$: Beyerdynamic* DT 990 Pro*, 250 ohm (would need an AMP? can't seem to find the 32 ohm version anywhere), 
160$: AKG *702*, 
160$: (currently on sale until May 1st.): Fidelio *X2HR*, (the only pair that I can buy locally for some reason) 
160$: Audio technica ATH* m50x*
160$: Sennheiser *HD 599*: (https://www.thomann.de/dk/sennheiser_hd_599.htm)
120$+50$: Drop x Sennheiser* pc37x*
170$+50$: Drop x Sennheiser* pc38x*
170$+50$: Drop x Sennheiser* hd58x*
225$:Sennheiser *560s*


100$: Sennheiser *559* (https://www.thomann.de/dk/sennheiser_hd_559.htm) 
100$: Audio technica ATH *m40x* (https://www.thomann.de/dk/audio_technica_ath_m40_x.htm)

So anyways, a good multipurpose pair of open-back headphones that isn't exclusively made for competitive FPS but still offer some sort of soundstage/imaging, whilst also being enjoyable for entertainment purposes like movies/listening to music.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Get the X2. ALWAYS a safe bet.


----------



## Kronk

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Get the X2. ALWAYS a safe bet.


Yeah read your review, you mentioned it was a jack of all trades master of none and it seems like it is an okay entry-level open back headphone for trying out hifi without having to invest in a DAC or AMP to start with!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Get the X2. ALWAYS a safe bet.


Yea, I think of the list of headphones, the X2HR would be about the best choice.


----------



## duranxv

Anyone have an idea of how the opitcal out works with the Sound Blaster AE-9?  I know for the RCA connection, it brings everything over to the external device.  How about for optical? Is it VSS only? Or is it also affected by op amp swapping?


----------



## rashbeep

feels like there's something wrong with my ears when i see so many people playing in plain stereo

i feel like i get no sense of space or positional awareness when doing so


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 25, 2021)

^Tell me about it. Playing in stereo may as well be like putting on a blindfold for me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

duranxv said:


> Anyone have an idea of how the optical out works with the Sound Blaster AE-9?  I know for the RCA connection, it brings everything over to the external device.  How about for optical? Is it VSS only? Or is it also affected by op amp swapping?


S/PDIF (optical or coaxial) is a digital signal that bypasses the DAC and op-amp functions of the sound card (AE-9).
Optical can carry 2-channel of PCM (un-compressed) 24-bit/96k or 24-bit192k digital audio.
Or using encoding (compression) up to 6-channels of digital 24-bit/48K (max) digital audio.
DDL (Dolby Digital Live) or DTS-Connect can encode the audio.


----------



## idsyphe

rashbeep said:


> feels like there's something wrong with my ears when i see so many people playing in plain stereo
> 
> i feel like i get no sense of space or positional awareness when doing so



Yeah I'm the same, and I hate it when people will discourage VSS because of it. Personally I get headaches when playing games with stereo sound, the movement of sounds from left to right without any nuance in between makes my brain hurt after a while, maybe I've spent so many years using VSS my brain just expects it.


----------



## Qupie

I am personally pleasantly surprised by the positional information in stereo with a good source and headphone. I am also really surprised by the improved sound quality with not using VSS, it just sounds better, even though less immersive. 

I will have to admit though, that my VSS source was pretty bad (Mixamp gen 2), and my stereo source is a lot better (Schiit hel). 

In the end, I think both have a pretty long learning curve, if you have hundred of hours in a game with or without VSS, switching will be very weird. 

I personally don't think I am ever going back to external VSS on PS5. Either the Tempest engine will give an improvement with future games, or I will just do with good stereo.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> I am personally pleasantly surprised by the positional information in stereo with a good source and headphone. I am also really surprised by the improved sound quality with not using VSS, it just sounds better, even though less immersive.
> 
> I will have to admit though, that my VSS source was pretty bad (Mixamp gen 2), and my stereo source is a lot better (Schiit hel).
> 
> ...


If the VSS on the Mixamp Gen 2 is anything like the VSS on the Astro A50s, then yes, pretty bad at times. When I was on Xbox I was able to use Atmos and disable the A50s onboard VSS. It was much better.


----------



## Sam21

I am trying to use Creative G6 with a PS3(PlayStation 3) to get virtual surround sound on my headphones...Should I follow these steps:?

(1) Connect the G6 to a PC through USB and change the settings(SBX etc..) as you desire.
(2) Change PS3 audio settings so that it outputs Dolby Digital 5.1 through optical out.
(3) Connect G6 to PS3 through the optical out on PS3 and optical in on G6.
(4) Run a game, the Dolby Digital indicator will light up on G6.
(5) Turn SBX on by pressing the SBX button on G6.

Do these steps work for other gaming consoles, like PS4, PS2 and Wii too? 

To pair G6 with a PC for gaming I should do the following:

(1) Connect G6 to the PC using the USB cable.
(2) Change speaker configuration to 7.1
(3) Setup and turn on SBX.

Are these steps correct ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Skip step 1. I mean you can connect the usb for powee, but don't rely on usb for audio. Do step 2 and above.

And for pc yes, that is correct. Do it in the creative software.


----------



## Sam21

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Skip step 1. I mean you can connect the usb for powee, but don't rely on usb for audio. Do step 2 and above.
> 
> And for pc yes, that is correct. Do it in the creative software.



By step (1) I meant that I should save my desired settings into the G6 first...like what percentage the SBX slider is set at. etc and then disconnect it from the PC...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 26, 2021)

I personally like it at 100% for easier rear audio cue discernibility. The default is 67% if you wanna start there. I don't use any other option and turn everything else off in the software.

And usb audio for pc is fine. I mainly meant do it use for ps4 since it only does 2 channels and you won't get proper SBX that way.


----------



## Xlaw

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She has arrived E-mu Teak. Let's see how much of the D7000 they channel.


After spending some time with them, how are their soundstage and imaging for gaming ? 
I'm very much interested in the D7000 signature these are channeling, but worried about them not being immersive enough for gaming because of their soundstage and imaging.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

To be completely honest, I've been so busy with other stuff I haven't spent a helluva long time with the Teak. But I can say that are pretty darn immersive and explosive and fun.

As for soundstage, it's not gonna be as big as the D7000 because it's less v-shaped, so there isn't as much distance between you and the midrange. As always playing in virtual surround alleviates any concern for soundstage, personally.

They're a keeper and allow me to move on from the D7K.


----------



## Azzurro

Azzurro said:


> Hel 2 - a thing of beauty and sounds amazing too 🎧🔥👌



So after a coupe of weeks, I'm in love with this thing.

Pairing it with the Beyerdynamic TYGR 300 R and it sounds tremendous


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Azzurro said:


> So after a coupe of weeks, I'm in love with this thing.
> 
> Pairing it with the Beyerdynamic TYGR 300 R and it sounds tremendous



Nice - how much was the import duty if you don't mind me asking.  Thinking of getting a Hel 2 to use with my Tygr R and HD560s


----------



## mindbomb

rashbeep said:


> feels like there's something wrong with my ears when i see so many people playing in plain stereo
> 
> i feel like i get no sense of space or positional awareness when doing so



yea, it's pretty depressing to see a lot of people using stereo. It's like watching people en masse all fail a marshmallow test, where they won't trade some short term unfamiliarity for long term better directionality.


----------



## Azzurro

WhiteHartMart said:


> Nice - how much was the import duty if you don't mind me asking.  Thinking of getting a Hel 2 to use with my Tygr R and HD560s



I don't know how I've managed it but I wasn't charged any.

I paid $199.00 for the Hel 2 itself and chose the priority shipping via FedEx which from memory was about $32 and that's it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Azzurro said:


> I don't know how I've managed it but I wasn't charged any.
> 
> I paid $199.00 for the Hel 2 itself and chose the priority shipping via FedEx which from memory was about $32 and that's it.


Wow - got lucky then - nice.  Thanks for confirming.


----------



## Qupie

Same for me, no customs charge (yet). It might come later I guess (EU, Netherlands)


----------



## JES

No tolls on the highway to hel


----------



## duranxv

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried gaming with a R2R DAC? lol


----------



## PurpleAngel

duranxv said:


> Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried gaming with a R2R DAC? lol


Have not tried gaming with, just made love to it.


----------



## rashbeep

Qupie said:


> I am personally pleasantly surprised by the positional information in stereo with a good source and headphone. I am also really surprised by the improved sound quality with not using VSS, it just sounds better, even though less immersive.
> 
> I will have to admit though, that my VSS source was pretty bad (Mixamp gen 2), and my stereo source is a lot better (Schiit hel).
> 
> ...



my source could definitely be better. just using my headphone out from my audio interface (scarlett solo) for now and i'll look to be upgrading to a jotunheim 2 or something similar. my headphone that i'm testing is the 560s which is supposed to be pretty decent for soundstage and imaging.

for now the best AQ i've had while gaming has been the mobius


----------



## Veliladon

I need Audeze to do a proper version of the Penrose with the Waves NX in the receiver. I love my Mobius but I really want to get back to wireless.


----------



## duranxv

PurpleAngel said:


> Have not tried gaming with, just made love to it.



Haha nice - which R2R dac did you use? Denafrips?


----------



## Highlaw

I'm both stupid and new to this, so excuse any "interesting" questions.

My Audeze Mobius broke four times, they're more tape than headset right now and I'm ready to move on (still deciding between HE400i 2020, Sundara, 1060C[open mod], or M570 - if you have any recommendation between these or any other open planars in the 150-350€ range feel free to shoot). I want a setup where I can switch between my PC and PS5 without unplugging & plugging cables, fortunately the Hel2 seems like the perfect solution with its automatic UAC1 mode when plugged onto a PS5 and the USB/optical input switch up front. I have the following doubts and things I want to confirm:

1) Does the UAC1 format only affect the USB port (connected to PS5), or does it somehow screw with any other part of the unit in some way? (considering the optical plug will be connected to my PC)
2) How does the Optical port work? Will it only input PC sound to the amp (I'd have to connect the mic directly to the PC for calls) or does it also transfer mic info to the PC with the mic connected to Hel2?
3) Are there any shenanigans I can do with the preamp output other than its intended use? For example connecting my Dualsense to it while the switch is on optical (PC), or connecting it to PC while the switch in on USB (PS5) to hear both sources at the same time or some such heresy. 
4) Any idea if Hel2 will have European stock before 2027?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Qupie

Highlaw said:


> I'm both stupid and new to this, so excuse any "interesting" questions.
> 
> My Audeze Mobius broke four times, they're more tape than headset right now and I'm ready to move on (still deciding between HE400i 2020, Sundara, 1060C[open mod], or M570 - if you have any recommendation between these or any other open planars in the 150-350€ range feel free to shoot). I want a setup where I can switch between my PC and PS5 without unplugging & plugging cables, fortunately the Hel2 seems like the perfect solution with its automatic UAC1 mode when plugged onto a PS5 and the USB/optical input switch up front. I have the following doubts and things I want to confirm:
> 
> ...


I have been switching the usb cable between pc and ps5. It works but is not very optimal. 

If you already have an optic output on your pc, your plan could work, you won't get mic input though (optical cable is a one way cable). 

I am thinking to get a usb switch box or something, not sure if that is going to hamper sound or something


----------



## PurpleAngel

duranxv said:


> Haha nice - which R2R dac did you use? Denafrips?


I'm just joking, I use the NFB-11.28 DAC/amp.


----------



## Chastity

Highlaw said:


> (still deciding between HE400i 2020, Sundara, 1060C[open mod], or M570 - if you have any recommendation between these or any other open planars in the 150-350€ range feel free to shoot)


Have you looked at the M1070?  I believe they are still $330 at monoprice.com


----------



## Highlaw

Chastity said:


> Have you looked at the M1070?  I believe they are still $330 at monoprice.com


I have, but got worried about the build quality, the metal holding the cups bends so easily that I'm afraid some day they'll simply snap off after getting bent back and forth so much (accidentally or otherwise)



Qupie said:


> I have been switching the usb cable between pc and ps5. It works but is not very optimal.
> 
> If you already have an optic output on your pc, your plan could work, you won't get mic input though (optical cable is a one way cable).
> 
> I am thinking to get a usb switch box or something, not sure if that is going to hamper sound or something


Know what? this isn't too bad of a compromise, in that case I'd only have the switch USB cable when I want to talk on either one, rather than wanting to listen ( which is much more frequent).


----------



## Sam21

Can I use Creative G6 as a stand alone Amp ? When an analog signal is inputted to line-in, which of the following happens: ?

(1) Analog signal inputted to linein -> analog signal is amplified by the amp section -> analog signal is outputted to headphone out.

(2) Analog signal inputted to linein -> ADC converts it to a digital signal -> DSP is done to the digital signal -> digital signal is converted to analog by the DAC -> analog signal is amplified by the amp section -> analog signal is outputted to headphone out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Apr 30, 2021)

Fairly certain it'll just use the amp section alone. You can add the dsp, but it'll just be expanded stereo. I don't recommend that.

In other news, I'm mostly done with the Razer Blackshark V2 review, and I should be posting it up hopefully by Wednesday at the very latest. Most likely this Mon/Tue upcoming.


----------



## Chastity (May 1, 2021)

Highlaw said:


> I have, but got worried about the build quality, the metal holding the cups bends so easily that I'm afraid some day they'll simply snap off after getting bent back and forth so much (accidentally or otherwise)


They don't bend easily at all, and requires a good deal of force.  If you are referring to Zeos' video, he had them for several weeks, and he bent the headband so much during that period he weakened the metal.  Another example of why Zeos' reviews are misleading.


----------



## Sam21

Are you guys aware of any clipping with the Creative G6 ? According to Audio Science Review, there are some problems with it: 



> What is going on here? The G6 was doing exceptionally well, beating my reference Topping DX3 Pro but then it shoots up like crazy. We have not seen this before in any DAC. And how is it that we are seeing clipping behavior here but not in the Dashboard which is at full amplitude just the same? The clue is in THD+N versus frequency (the dashboard is at 1 kHz):





> Focus on the blue line first. Starting from right (higher frequencies) response is fine but the moment we get down to 300 Hz, distortion starts to shoot up and keeps getting worse and worse. By the time we get to 20 Hz, we are talking nearly 1% THD+N!!! A quick FFT (not shown) showed a spray of harmonic distortion at low frequencies. Dialing down the output by 2 dBFS completely fixed the issue.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 1, 2021)

I don't get clipping mainly because as he started he lowered db by two. Me I just set windows volume to 90/100 which is likely more than 2db so I'm in the clear.

I never set windows to 100% on any dac. Always 90/100.

Same on ps5. I lower it at least one tick. Two if the amp is stronger.

Oh yeah, you will also get clipping if you leave it at 7.1 while playing two channel sources on pc (rarely). It may be annoying, but only set it to 7.1 when playing games or multi channel files, then manually change it to two channel (in creative software) when not.


----------



## Chastity (May 2, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I don't get clipping mainly because as he started he lowered db by two. Me I just set windows volume to 90/100 which is likely more than 2db so I'm in the clear.
> 
> I never set windows to 100% on any dac. Always 90/100.
> 
> ...


Windows Volume is a digital adjustment.  100% doesn't affect the DAC at all.  Any clipping is from the analog stage, aka the amp, not the DAC.  I drive my SMSL M300 MKII at 100% w/o any issues.

In the case of the G6, at max volume the amp begins to distort.  It's not the DAC that is distorting.  Using Line Out/SPDIF Out I can use the G6 at 100% w/o issue.


----------



## Sam21

Chastity said:


> Windows Volume is a digital adjustment.  100% doesn't affect the DAC at all.  Any clipping is from the analog stage, aka the amp, not the DAC.  I drive my SMSL M300 MKII at 100% w/o any issues.
> 
> In the case of the G6, at max volume the amp begins to distort.  It's not the DAC that is distorting.  Using Line Out/SPDIF Out I can use the G6 at 100% w/o issue.


The site I mentioned says that the line out is also affected. It clips...


----------



## Chastity (May 2, 2021)

Sam21 said:


> The site I mentioned says that the line out is also affected. It clips...


I suppose it's possible with the analog line-out.  Tho I didn't use that for too long to notice, as I eventually moved to using toslink, then just retiring the G6 all together, since I find Waves NX / Redscape to be superior to SBX, and I don't console game, especially with the 24/48 toslink cap, compared to 32/96 on Waves NX/Redscape.


----------



## Sam21

I already have the Sony MA900 but I am looking for a headphone that beats the Sony in terms of soundstage size, separation and placement..

I am looking at K702 and AD700x … which one of these serves me better ?


----------



## HieroX

idsyphe said:


> Yeah I'm the same, and I hate it when people will discourage VSS because of it. Personally I get headaches when playing games with stereo sound, the movement of sounds from left to right without any nuance in between makes my brain hurt after a while, maybe I've spent so many years using VSS my brain just expects it.


My issue isn't that they discourage VSS, because people who uses stereo have found a system that works for them. 

The issue is that they discourage people to not use them by spreading misleading information, like our ears only works in stereo, or VSS is fake, marketing gimmicks, or the blanket statement: "stereo is all you need."


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
Does 3D audio (from ps5) will work with schiit hel 2? (By usb connection to ps5) 

because I like these dac/amp and main question for me is working fine with tempest 3D on ps5


----------



## tmaxx123

If anyone hasn’t had the chance to check out Returnal on the ps5, I would highly recommend it. The sound design is next level.  Great way to test and show off gear.


----------



## idsyphe

HieroX said:


> My issue isn't that they discourage VSS, because people who uses stereo have found a system that works for them.
> 
> The issue is that they discourage people to not use them by spreading misleading information, like our ears only works in stereo, or VSS is fake, marketing gimmicks, or the blanket statement: "stereo is all you need."


Yeah that's what I meant by 'discourage', I do laugh though, half the time those spreading that misleading information are recommending using the headphone setting in games, which is just VSS implemented within the game engine.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> Does 3D audio (from ps5) will work with schiit hel 2? (By usb connection to ps5)
> 
> because I like these dac/amp and main question for me is working fine with tempest 3D on ps5


Like I literally said in the Hel 2 review which is the last review I did, I stated it has native ps5 audio support....

That means YES. Sorry if that wasn't obvious enough. I've added clarification on the review.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 4, 2021)

Ok guys, here is the Razer Blackshark V2 review. Took me awhile since I was swamped with quite a few things at the same time, and this review actually managed to push the Focal Elex and Vali 2+ reviews back a bit. In any case, here it is. I'm not all that happy with some things, like imaging and soundstage sections, but what you see is what you get.


----------
----------

*Razer Blackshark V2*


$99
*Where To Buy*: *Amazon*, *Best Buy*

_Disclaimer: I'll be real with you guys. I wasn't planning on reviewing this one. Not because it's bad (it's actually a pretty solid headset), but more because I know audiophiles, and I know that the regulars here on Head-fi don't have much, if any interest in gaming headsets that aren't done by the audiophile-centric companies. Razer is far from an audio oriented company, so I don't expect much interest in this review. That being said, there are two things that made me decide to go on and write the review. One being that this unit was on loan from a close IRL friend who isn't an audiophile and wanted to know my thoughts on it. Two being that, while most of you guys aren't going to be interested, I still feel this is a pretty good choice for a closed gaming headset, and definitely worth looking into.

So this review is for him, and those that don't have any pre-conceived notions or biases. Neither Razer nor any other company was involved here. This was done entirely on my own volition, mainly as a thank you to a friend for lending them out to me.

As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Razer or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything._



*Intro*​
Ah, the Razer Blackshark V2 (I'll just call it the V2 henceforth). Something different for once. For the better part of a few years, I've mainly been doing reviews for upcoming products or recently released products. It's been a long time since I've written about something that falls outside of that. The V2 was something I mainly looked into because, while I have an Audeze Penrose on hand, I wanted something a little more comfortable, cheaper, and could be used with my gear. The Penrose is mainly best used as a wireless headset. The Penrose also uses faux leather pads, and I miss having pads that are fabric/cloth or anything that isn't a leather variant.

A close friend of mine bought this unit for $50 (I'm wondering if the Best Buy employee accidentally charged him for a V2 X instead), and I have to say with full confidence, the Blackshark V2 is a downright STEAL at that price. NOW, when looking into the Blackshark V2, you have to make absolutely certain that it's the V2. Not the V2 X, which sounds like it would be a better version, but is actually a CHEAPER/INFERIOR model, which isn't the same as the V2. Razer, why did you name your cheaper model nearly the same as the superior model but with an X attached? Most people will think the X means BETTER. Please learn how to utilize X effectively in the future.

So yes, this is a review of the Blackshark V2, NOT the V2 X, or the V2 Pro. The easiest way to identify them is that the V2 will have the Green Razer logo on the cups, with the cable being black. The V2 X has the logo in GREY/Black while the cable is GREEN. Then there's the V2 Pro, which is the wireless version of the V2, even though the logo is NOT Green, sigh. If it sounds confusing, blame Razer.

Again, we're looking at the V2, NOT the V2 X or V2 Pro. Get it? Great. I can't attest to the performance of the V2 X or V2 Pro, so look into those at your own risk. I won't be mentioning them on this review.

Anyways, I asked my friend if I could use the Blackshark V2 for a few weeks, to see if it was worth mentioning on my guide. I would say, yes. Yes it is. I recently purchased a Philips SHP9600 because I expected them to be a better alternative. It wasn't. The SHP9600 is one of the most disappointing headphones I have heard in a long time. I'd gladly take the Blackshark V2 over it any day of the week. The SHP9600 was returned, and now I'm considering getting my own pair of V2s.

I'm far from a Razer fanboy (I own nothing else that's Razer branded), but I have to say, they have a winner here in the V2. Enough spoilers.



*Build and Comfort*​
For a relatively budget gaming headset, I honestly wouldn't have expected much. In fact, I expected a cheap feeling, fragile unit that'd likely crumble with any sort of moderate abuse. To my completely amazement, I find the V2 to be incredibly well built, to the point I'm ashamed so many audiophile grade headphones feel like toys next to the V2s. I mean, don't get me wrong, there's a lack of weight to the unit, and materials used are mainly plastics, but I feel confident in saying if I abused the V2 with wild abandon, I wouldn't doubt them surviving with much of an issue.

The design and aesthetics of the V2 seem out of place from what I would've expected from Razer. I'm used to seeing their products attempt to stand out in sometimes garish, overly aggressive ways. Outside of some green accents on the cables leads into the headband from the cups, the V2 is quite utilitarian. It's almost bland in terms of standing out from the most basic of headsets, and I have to say, I LIKE it. It's a black headset, with only the green Razer logo and previously mentioned green cables that make the V2 stand out as a Razer product. Good on you, Razer. I like how subdued the V2 is.


*Headband:

*

I love the headband on the V2. It doesn't feel like much. Very little in the way of weight or material here, and that makes it wonderful. The top side is some form of fake leather with a nice stitch job, and Razer etched on top.

On the bottom side that touches your head, the foam padding feels very airy, and far from dense. It merely rests on your head, leaving absolutely no hotspotting. It may not feel like a build quality marvel, but sometimes less is more. And in the case of the headband, this is among the best I have EVER felt. I find it shameful that so many companies use so many lavish materials and padding, yet their comfort levels are a far cry from something as simple as the V2's headband.

On each end of the headband are simple plastic pieces where the green cables that come from the cups go into. They don't stick out one way or another, and that's ok. The green cables are wrapped in fabric, which is a nice touch, that makes the V2 seem more premium than they are.

Now one thing I need to speak at length about is the yokes and extension mechanism. The cups merely slide up and down two thin bars on each side. There are no extension indicators here. There is very little friction as you adjust for your head size. This may sound cheap, but I have to say I really like how simple and easy to use this design is. Time will tell how long it'd hold up, and if it could potentially lose all friction, leaving the cups to loosely slide up and down these simple thin bars. Not that they will, but I can't be certain here. The act of moving the cups and down is painless and near effortless. Points for ease of use, with a huge caveat in that it may not hold up forever.


*Cups:

*

The simple, black, plastic cups don't seem to have much in the way of density, keeping the V2 lightweight. While they don't feel substantial and weighty, they seem well built and should protect the drivers just fine. The left cup houses all the functions and controls on the V2.

On the center bottom of the left cup is the volume knob which I feel is easy to adjust. The volume control has a stop at the lowest volume, midway point, and full volume output. I didn't hear any channel imbalances at the lowest volume levels, which is great. I didn't use the volume knob much as I used the one on my amplifiers instead, and left the V2's volume knob maxed out.



On the backside near the main cable on the bottom  of the left cup is a mic mute button, which you can press in to mute and depress to unmute. On the front side of the bottom near the cup in a 3.5mm mic input for the included, detachable boom mic. The input is a tad recessed and D-shaped so as to allow mainly just the boom mic to be inserted here. I attempted to use a Penrose and Mobius boom mic but they fit loosely, and not very secured. I'd advise against using anything other than the one included on the V2.


*Ear Pads:

*

The ear pads seem to be made of a neoprene-like material that Razer labels as "Flowknit memory foam - Our new breathable weave minimizes sweat and heat build-up generated by skin contact, while the ultra-soft foam’s improved density greatly reduces the headset’s clamping force."

Whatever they are or use, I have to agree with Razer's marketing here. These are some of the most breathable pads I've ever felt on a closed headphone or headset. They're also very soft, and while I don't agree that the foam is very dense (it's not), it's very, VERY comfortable.

The driver cover is made up of soft foam as well, while I don't expect too many people to take issues with your ears bottoming out and touching the driver cover, it is very comfortable to the touch.


*Clamping Force:*

The V2 is more less what I'd consider moderately low in clamping force. They aren't going to slide off your head. They feel secure enough without any feeling of real clamp. Once again, top notch levels of comfort here that would put other manufacturers to shame. That being said, these were already worn in prior to my own testing, so out of the box experience might be a little different from my own.


*Cable:*

The black, fabric covered cable terminates into a right angled 3.5mm TRRS plug (audio/mic channels). This means you'll need a headset splitter if you wanna use the V2 with an amplifier or regular headphone jacks that don't include mic channels. The cable itself is generous in length (6 ft). It's one of the better cables I've used from recent memory, though it is unfortunately not detachable. Razer, please get with the times, and include detachable cables on your headsets.


*Weight:*

Per Razer, the V2 weighs in at 262g. From personal use, I'd say the V2 weighs practically nothing when worn. You simply forget they're on. In terms of weight, that's about the greatest praise you can give to any headphone. It is simply one of the lightest feeling, full sized headphones I've ever experienced.


*Final Build and Comfort Impressions:*

Does the V2 feel cheap on the hand? Due to how lightweight it is, some may come to that conclusion. However, I feel the nips and tucks made to make the V2 were the right call. I personally feel they have a good build quality, and don't give me the impression they'll break from normal use.

While the V2 isn't going to win any awards in terms of build quality and materials used, it is absolutely one of the best headsets I have ever used in terms of weight, clamping force, and ear pad breathability. If weight and comfort is a top priority for you, you don't need to look elsewhere, the Blackshark V2 is a headset you can wear all day, with very little in the way of discomfort. They're that good.



*Accessories*​
_Note: As these were on loan without packaging or extra goodies, I can only go off what I see on product page and what I have on hand._

The Blackshark V2 includes a carrying pouch, the detachable boom microphone with foam piece attached, and the USB soundcard cable.



*Carrying Pouch *- I did not have the pouch on hand at the time of the review, but I would expect it to be like most pouches, meaning it'll be great for when you're transporting the headset and its goodies from one location to another, but don't expect any major protection.



*Detachable mic -* The microphone has a fairly thick, slightly flexible cable, though it doesn't hold its shape as some of the better detachable mics out there. Still, it shouldn't pose much of a problem here.

*USB soundcard -* The soundcard is in the shape of a cable adapter, and works as well as you'd expect. You simply plug the headset cable to the soundcard's 3.5mm combo audio/mic input, and connect the USB to your PC. Works well in a pinch if you have a really bad onboard headphone jack, though I wouldn't replace a proper dac/amp with it, unless you really want to utilize Razer Synapse and its functions. One thing worthy of note, is that the USB soundcard DOES work on the Playstation 5. However, it doesn't have enough power through the PS5 to even drive the Blackshark V2 to adequate volume levels (the V2 through the controller's headphone jack is louder). The only way I see this as a benefit is if you have an external amp that you connect to the headphone jack on the USB soundcard. Not exactly ideal, but at least it will bypass connecting through the controller which has to transmit audio through bluetooth. Still, I don't see many instance where someone interested in a Blackshark V2 will also have a dedicated amplifier just for this situation. Stranger things have been done, I guess.



*Noise Control*​
The V2 as a closed back headset does a well at passive noise isolation. It ain't the very best I've heard in either keeping noise in or external noise out (it isn't anywhere near an actively noise cancelling headphone), but should be a great performer for most people with realistic needs for passive noise attenuation. In terms of noise leak, someone next to you will barely hear what you're listening to, but anyone with some distance won't hear much of anything. You won't have to worry about leak especially with a door between you and the next person. As for external noises, as long as you're a moderate volume listener, you won't be disturbed by most external influence, outside of things that will need specialized noise controlling headphones.



*Software/Soundcard*​
I'll be real with you guys in saying that outside of testing purposes, I did not use the soundcard, the software, or any combination of either. I mainly used the V2 with the Schiit Hel 2, as that was all the dac/amp I needed for it. I prefer to keep things simple, and only look for things in software that add virtual surround if possible. I was mainly interested in the THX spatial audio, but came away disappointed with it, leaving the usb sound card useless for my use case. For the sake of the review, I'll breakdown the parts of the Razer Synapse software that pertains to the Blackshark V2.

As you plug the USB soundcard to your PC, the Razer Synapse software will install itself (as well as update). For some reason, two sound devices will appear: Razer USB Soundcard, and THX Spatial Audio. If you want to utilize the software to the fullest, you'll want to use THX Spatial Audio as the sound device (even if you're not exactly using THX Spatial Audio).

Opening Razer Synapse, you'll note that the sound card will be named as Razer USB Sound Card. On the top of the program, you'll have 3 sections: Synapse, Audio, Profiles. I'll be focusing on what matters here, Audio, so select that. Under the Audio section you have a few other sections: Sound, Mixer, Enhancement, Mic. Don't worry too much about Sound, as it's mainly a redundant volume slider, a link to the windows volume mixer (also redundant), and on the right side is sound properties. Here, you can select a device to fall back on if you disconnect the usb sound card.

The areas of the software you'll want to focus on is Mixer, Enhancement, and Mic.

*Mixer -* Here is where you can toggle THX Spatial Audio on/off. You can have it set to Auto and Manual which allows you to select  which preset of spatial audio you want per application, games, and programs.



The Presets are Game, Movie, and Music, as well as whatever custom preset you've created. Personally, I found THX Spatial Audio to not exactly work anywhere near as well as any of my other favorite surround dsps like Dolby Headphone, Waves NX, Creative SBX, Sennheiser GSX, Redscape Audio, etc. If anything, I felt THX Spatial Audio did next to nothing other than mess up audio fidelity with no benefit to positional awareness.

*Enhancement -* Here you'll have the options for Bass Boost, Sound Normalization, and Voice Clarity (from incoming communications, not your mic).



You'll also find the 10-band Audio Equalizer Here with 4 presets, as well as a Custom preset. You'll have a range between -12 and +12db. Plenty to tune to your preferences.

*Mic -* Here you can adjust your microphone with various settings.



Starting with the 'Microphone' section which allows you to adjust: Mic Volume, Mic Boost, Voice Gate, Mic Preview (to test your mic). You'll also have a section titled Enhancements where you can select: Voice Normalization, Vocal Clarity, and  Ambient Noise Reduction.

*Mic Equalizer -* Here you can equalize the mic's output as low as 125hz up to 6khz with 4 presets, as well as a custom preset. You can adjust down or up 5db.

*Mic Monitoring (Sidetone) -* Here you can adjust the volume of mic monitoring or turn it off completely.


*Final Software Impressions:*

The bundled software that comes with the usb sound card is perfectly adequate, and usable with a variety of options. Unfortunately, there was nothing I needed from it, and immediately unplugged the soundcard, using my own gear with the V2 instead. Still, for those just starting out, the Blackshark V2 works very well with its included sound card, though with the exception of a few settings like mic monitoring, you may find it unnecessary if you like to keep it simple. There's already so many other programs you likely use with their own suite of features that makes this USB soundcard's software somewhat redundant. You can consider the software supplemental, and not necessarily essential.



*Sound*​
I honestly didn't expect much out of the V2 in terms of sound quality. Let me clarify. Razer makes really good products. Thing is, Razer's best products tend to be quite costly. The Blackshark V2 at $100 is on their budget-side of products, which I don't think many people would expect much out of. I certainly would've expected Razer to at least double the cost for this kind of performance. Not that the V2 is competitive at $200 (it's not quite up there), but that Razer would've probably priced it that high anyways.

So imagine my surprise in finding that not only is the V2 a very competent headset, it's actually a good one, and extremely competitive at its price point. The Blackshark V2 sounds great. I may have mentioned this before, but I'd take this over a Philips SHP9600 any day of the week. It just sounds much better to my ears. Let's break it down.


*Bass:*

As a huge company with many gamer oriented products, one would expect Razer to target the mass market with its sound signature. That usually means, bass is gonna be an important target to hit. It needs to feel big, robust, and impactful. The problem is that many headset makers tend to go overboard in the bass department, which greatly ruins their headset's chances at being good enough for competitive play, and lacking in overall bass clarity.

Thankfully, the V2 has a really great bass section. It doesn't exactly go super deep (it does go deep, but doesn't focus much on the very low end), but has a good sense of impact and speed. It's more mid to high bass energy, less low end rumble. This means the bass will better compliment competitive gaming without losing much of the musicality and fun aspects that bass brings to gaming. There isn't much in terms of atmospheric rumble or omnipotent presence. It's better at the dynamics and moment to moment impact.

There's enough to give the sound some weight, without feeling bloated or congested. The fun factor of the V2's bass is relatively high, though not as immersive as headphones that target lower bass ranges. I'd say the quantity of the mid to upper bass feels nearly spot on (if just a little more in the upper range than neutral), with equally great quality relative to how much of there is.

The V2 isn't a basshead-level headset, and it's all the more better for it. It has just enough here to satisfy people who enjoy bass, without overstepping and detracting from the other ranges. Razer did a great job here. Very fun without being overwhelming. Something along the lines of neutral bass plus a slight sprinkling of emphasis in mid to upper bass sections.

As far as frequency tests go (as to how I personally hear them, and aren't indicative of any graphs), you can hear the driver working even at 20hz, though it's not a particularly rumble-centric bass output. The bass volume really starts to climb at about 85hz and up. As stated earlier, the Blackshark V2's bass mainly excels in mid to upper bass.

That being said, there is a bit of bass distortion/ringing, not sure if it's the driver or the reflection from the cups, but through frequency testing, it can be heard up to near 300hz. It's an absolute non-issue with normal use so I wouldn't worry about hearing it otherwise.

Overall, I think the bass output and speed on the V2 is great, and perhaps even excellent, while quality is decent if not particularly amazing. While I generally prefer a headphone with more focus on the lower end of bass ranges, as opposed to the mid and high ranges (which is where the V2 mainly sticks to), I can still appreciate the snappier, less atmospheric bass, especially for a gaming headset. You ask anyone else, they'll likely tell you that's the better way to do bass if you're gonna put focus on any ranges.


*Midrange to Treble:*

The midrange and treble sections on the Blackshark V2 can be described mainly as neutral in forwardness, with very little in terms of dips, but with a few peaks that give the V2 a strong upper range presence. The low midrange past the bass is generally about as balanced in forwardness as I would expect from a neutral/flat headphone. It's not intimate or forward, and there isn't a lot of depth or space between you and the sound either. A good balance that doesn't specifically mask any particular details with steep dips, though it definitely highlights and enhances certain ranges. The upper ranges do have some noticeable peaks at around 3.5khz, 6khz, and near 10khz, which come off a bit hot with a bit of sizzle. The V2 is not a sleepy sounding headphone. There is some energy up top with added sharpness.

Ultimately, it's these peaks that hinder the performance of an otherwise very good sounding headset. Find ways to mitigate some of that hotness with a tube amp or subtle EQ, or you'll have to contend with some ear fatiguing sections.


*Soundstage/Imaging:*

The Blackshark V2 doesn't have a particularly amazing sense of space, or much in the way of amazing imaging either. It's what I'd consider about average on all fronts here (especially for a closed back headphone), which personally feels perfectly adequate for my needs. Seeing as I only really focus on soundstage and imaging mainy with virtual surround processing, I'm fine with most soundstages and imaging out there for anything that isn't completely botched. The V2 performs well with virtual surround, which is as much as I could ever ask for it. It ain't going to win awards in terms of my favorite sound presentation, but it won't lag behind the vast majority either. It's good enough, and that's all I could ever ask for. If imaging or soundstage are placed incredibly high in terms of what you desire from a headset, perhaps you may want to consider something else. The V2 is respectable here, but will not wow you.


*Sound Signature and Clarity:*

The Blackshark V2 is best summed up as not particularly high in detail clarity, but good enough as a gaming headset. There's a bit of upper bass bloom, with the rest of the sound being tonally balanced, save for a few prominent peaks which aid in perceived detail in those ranges. This, to my ears comes off as slightly v-shaped, if mainly because of the mid/upper bass bloom (though honestly, it's not bassy by any stretch of the word), as well as the slight bit of excess treble. There is warmth down low, and sharp, sparkly treble. It's a sound signature that will vary on which range you're paying attention to.

Is the V2 a highly detailed headset with amazing sense of clarity? Not quite. There are a few concessions made to give the V2 a dynamic, exciting sound, which will highlight some details, and slightly subdue others. It's not a muffled, soft sounding headphone, so at the very least, you won't get a sense that it's a low-fi sounding headphone. If I'd have to rate the Clarity on the V2, I'd say it's at mostly decent to good. A passing grade, which I certainly wouldn't be upset with at the price point. I'll bring up the SHP9600 again as a headphone in its price range. The Blackshark V2 next to the SHP9600 is a detail monster in direct comparison. People seem to view the SHP9600 favorably, and I'd like to welcome them to try out the Blackshark V2. It'd blow their minds. Of course, it's not exactly a valid comparison as one is open, and the other closed, but for the money, I'd take the V2 every time. Even if I were to toss the mic away and use it as a headphone only, it'd still be worth it over the SHP9600. The SHP9600 sounds low-fi next to the V2. A shame considering how much I loved the X1 and X2. Let's just say I'd refuse to review the SHP9600.



*Amplification*​
As a gaming headset, you really don't have to worry much about driving the V2 to good levels from nearly any headphone jack. There's enough sensitivity here that won't need much to allow the V2 to perform to it's optimal state.



As far as what kind of amp coloration would suit the V2, I believe a tube hybrid that can perhaps soften the blow of its sparkly treble would suit the V2 best, though honestly, I don't think is worth investing in. I believe the V2 should be taken as is. It sounds great for a non-audiophile headset, despite a few rough edges. If you do happen to have an amplifier, warm ones like a soft sounding tube amp will likely synergize best with the V2.

One thing to note is that if you plan on using the usb soundcard with the PS5, the PS5 doesn't supply enough voltage to it, and the V2 will sound quite a bit quieter and underpowered compared to just connecting the V2 directly to the controller's headphone jack. It's more a problem with how the PS5 supplies power to external dacs, rather than the dac's issue itself. Due to this, I don't recommend the use of the V2 on the PS5 through the supplied usb soundcard.


*Microphone*​


^Razer Blackshark V2 mic test

I don't really have much to say about the V2's mic attachment other than it sounds pretty good. Nothing overly nasal, nor boomy, nor unnatural. Just a solid voice pickup that should serve most people well when communicating with others either when playing video games, or just chatting.





*Gaming*​
The main reason you'd want a Razer Blackshark V2 aming headset is...well, because it's a gaming headset, right? So at the very least, the V2 needs to be able to do well for a variety of games, be comfortable for long periods, and have a good enough microphone for voice chat. Thankfully, these are all some of the V2's strengths.

The V2's sound signature is a good balance between fun and competitive orientation, not exactly excelling in either, but putting up a more than respectable fight in both cases. It's a very enjoyable headset for casual, fun types of gaming needs, and the relatively balanced detail section with energetic treble will allow the V2 to do well for competitive needs.

Gamers will likely need something super comfortable, which the V2 absolutely nails as one of the best units I've ever worn for prolonged gaming sessions. With it light weight, breathable and plush headband and ear pads, the V2's comfort is one area gamers will never have to worry about. It's an absolute joy to use, so much that I'm considering a V2 for myself.

As for performance in gaming, to give one example, in a game of Warzone, my squad of 4 were all dead except the best of us (who doesn't use virtual surround). He was prone behind a low barrier to remain unseen (though he also couldn't see in front of him). It was him vs one last squad. While 3 of us spectated, me, alongside another friend who also uses virtual surround yell "THERE'S SOMEONE RIGHT BEHIND YOU!", in which he hesitated for a moment then immediately gets assassinated. The Blackshark V2 made it painfully aware that there was someone behind him. A lesser headset or headphone may have made it harder to discern front/back. As he plays in stereo, he definitely had no idea, and thought the enemy was just in front of him on the other side of the barrier.

That example alone would've been enough to let me know the V2 is a competent gaming headset, as I had no issues being able to tell where enemies were located relative to my point of view (with the use of Creative SBX surround). More thorough testing did not change my mind on what I feel was great overall gaming performance out of the V2. It may not blow anyone away, and it won't best any higher end headphone, but to those interested in the V2, rest assured, you won't have much to complain about it's very good to great gaming performance. If I had to give any critiques, it'd be that if you want something purely for competitive gaming, the V2 wouldn't be the most ideal choice. It'll still do well, but I'd opt for an open-backed, detail oriented headphone instead.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

I think the Blackshark V2 is a headphone that can be used for a variety of genres, use cases, media, what have you. It's not going to be the best headset to use for any one thing, but it is good enough for what I'd say works as an all around, all purpose headphone. It isn't for critical listening. it is for those who don't place the highest importance on dissecting the most microscopic of subtleties. Just put them on, enjoy whatever you're listening to, and that's that.


*Practicality:*

While it is quite lightweight, and extremely comfortable for all day use, its form factor and, protruding volume knob, and inability to fold and collapse, makes it hard to recommend as a portable headphone. As such, I think the V2 serves best as a transportable headset that you can take to a coffee shop or to an office, and even library. The internal noise leak is fairly minimal, though in terms of external noises, the passive noise isolation is good, but not on the level of blocking train or plane noises, or any place with a very high amount of external noise. Of course, as a headset, it is perfectly best at home, where you can leave the mic attached and communicate with others.


*Who Is It For?*

The easiest answer I can come up with, is that the V2 is for those looking for a closed back, super comfortable, gaming oriented headset that aren't too worried about critical listening. Non-audiophiles, or newborn audiophiles will likely find happiness here, due to its engaging, fun, and decently balanced sound. The sound is quite good at its price range, with punchy, lively but decently controlled bass, sparkly, energetic treble, and what I'd consider an inoffensive midrange.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Punchy bass without being bloated
Overall Comfort
Simple, but seemingly durable build
Volume knob
Microphone quality

*Dislikes:*

THX Spatial Audio was a disappointment
A bit of harshness in the some treble ranges
Non-detachable cable

*Indifferent:*

USB Soundcard (I'd recommend use your own dac/amps instead, though it works in a pinch)
Software (I prefer simple options physically on headsets instead of relying on software)



*Final Impressions*​
As I may have stated earlier, I wasn't going to do this one, but in a way, that would've been a disservice to what is actually a fairly solid product by Razer. Sure, audiophiles may have outgrown this kind of headset, and they'd likely choose something like a Philips SHP9500 with a V-moda boompro or other microphone cable attachment, but I feel this is a perfect entry point for anyone looking for an undeniably solid gaming headset, with all bells and whistles included, all for a very accessible price.

It comes with its own soundcard/dac/amp, a software that has its uses due to a suite of features some may want to utilize, and a very good microphone. I can never understate just how comfortable it is for all day comfort, and that alone may make the V2 worthwhile, even if you're looking for the most basic essentials out of the Blackshark V2.

It's not going to best any of the better headsets I've reviewed, and if you're more serious about audio performance, I'd steer you towards something like a Sennheiser PC37X or even better, a PC38X by Drop instead, though they cost quite a bit more. Still, the V2 comes in at a fairly low price, is easier to come by (even locally), and works well as a closed back/passively noise isolating headset, which my better recommendations can't achieve as they are open backed.

To sum it up, if you're looking for a closed-back, budget friendly headset with a great sound, really stellar comfort, and all the features you'd need without any extra purchases, the Razer Blackshark V2 is a surprisingly great headset overall.


----------



## Rozzko

Please give advise about closed headphones. 
now I have meze 99 and want better “next level” headphones for games. Only closed type


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## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Please give advise about closed headphones.
> now I have meze 99 and want better “next level” headphones for games. Only closed type


What sources or DAC/amp do you plug your headphones into?
Budget?
Anything you like or do not like about the Meze 99 headphones?
Is this for FPS gaming or other gaming?


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## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> What sources or DAC/amp do you plug your headphones into?
> Budget?
> Anything you like or do not like about the Meze 99 headphones?
> Is this for FPS gaming or other gaming?


Playing only on ps5. 
dac/amp - G6 now and maybe later Hel2 
Budget - I think 300-350 usd (new/used)
Like - I like weight of them and overall sound but don’t like clamp force and small earpads. 
for all games, not only FPS


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## chaZZZy007

Great review OP. 
I have a Razer Kraken Tournament edition myself. Very nice headset for what it is designed to do. 👍


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## OrionsBelt (May 5, 2021)

Hey first post ever here, it’s been great lurking and learning reading through these threads especially the EXCELLENT reviews by the OP MadLustEnvy. Finally had a question for my first post.

Got a PS5 and want the best wireless headphone for it. I game from my couch so wired isn’t really an option for me.

I’m very big on using VSS on playing my mostly 3rd person single games as I feel it adds to feeling like your in the game (I don’t do FPS).....Was all set on getting the Audeze Penrose based off MadLustEnvy’s review but he also stated recently that the PS5’s tempest engine DOESNT work on every game for VSS and just gives enhanced stereo for older Ps4 games . Now I’m leaning towards the Arctis Pro Wireless so I can connect it directly to the PS5 use the Tempest when available and then use the Arctis optical port via the Tv when I want to use the Arctis DTSX for older ps4 games.

Am I overthinking this and should I just get the Penrose or push through with the Arctis for its dual Tempest 3D and DTSX option? Or is there a different headset I’m not thinking about? 
Thanks!


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## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Playing only on ps5.
> dac/amp - G6 now and maybe later Hel2
> Budget - I think 300-350 usd (new/used)
> Like - I like weight of them and overall sound but don’t like clamp force and small earpads.
> for all games, not only FPS


For FPS gaming (and other games) Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X), not mush bass (good for FPS).


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## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> For FPS gaming (and other games) Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X), not mush bass (good for FPS).


Open? I need only closed type of headphones

And not for FPS? I like bass in games, why not. It’s headphones for games, not for critical listening


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## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Open? I need only closed type of headphones
> 
> And not for FPS? I like bass in games, why not. It’s headphones for games, not for critical listening


Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.


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## Rozzko

PurpleAngel said:


> Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads.


Another open cans? 
I need closed type. With no sound leaking. any good closed headphones?


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## ricardovix

Guys, I'm a _*Sennheiser HD 598*_ owner thinking about switch to a *wireless headphone/headset*.

Are there any headphone/headset that are comparable to the Sennheiser HD 598 in audio quality and confort?

I will use it to play offline games on PC and PS5.

Thanks!


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## Dijitalism

Any suggestions for headphones under $150 for non-competitive, purely single player games (PlayStation 5)? Something I can just stick into the controller and not have to worry about amps etc.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Perhaps a Creative Aurvana Live. I can't think of much that the controller can power. The internal amp is weak.


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## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Another open cans?
> I need closed type. With no sound leaking. any good closed headphones?


Sorry, missed the part about closed cans.
Soundmagic HP151 closed headphones.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32828353505.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2f423c00RyjtWx&mp=1



ricardovix said:


> Guys, I'm a _*Sennheiser HD 598*_ owner thinking about switch to a *wireless headphone/headset*.
> 
> Are there any headphone/headset that are comparable to the Sennheiser HD 598 in audio quality and comfort?
> 
> ...


If going wireless, check out Sennheiser wireless headphones (it's what I would look into).


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## Chastity

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-k3-plus

This is so cute!


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## OrionsBelt (May 7, 2021)

Ended up just getting the Penrose for the PS5. Enjoying them so far, miss it having its own VSS for older ps4 games but hopefully Sony can update the Tempest engine to add 3D audio to every game in the future instead of just some games.


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## Rozzko

OrionsBelt said:


> Ended up just getting the Penrose for the PS5. Enjoying them so far, miss it having its own VSS for older ps4 games but hopefully Sony can update the Tempest engine to add 3D audio to every game in the future instead of just some games.


Tempest work fine with Penrose? I mean Bluetooth connection


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 8, 2021)

Penrose main wireless isn't Bluetooth...


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## Qupie

Overkill? Probably! 

But holy crap, the detail and positional ques are on another level compared to my pc38x


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Qupie said:


> Overkill? Probably!
> 
> But holy crap, the detail and positional ques are on another level compared to my pc38x


Which are those? I'm reviewing the Elex, and they're def 10/10 material. They're simply the best sounding headphones I've heard to date. I'd imagine the Clear and its ilk are 10/10 in their price ranges as well.


----------



## rashbeep

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Which are those? I'm reviewing the Elex, and they're def 10/10 material. They're simply the best sounding headphones I've heard to date. I'd imagine the Clear and its ilk are 10/10 in their price ranges as well.



looks like the clear mg pros

i just copped a pair of celestee's and i really like them. lots of complaints about the narrow soundstage but it doesn't really bother me


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Celestees are closed back though. I wouldn't compare closed back to open backed, even from the same company, the difference in presentation is too vast.

I can only go off what I've heard with the Elex which is open backed. It's special.


----------



## Ichos

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Which are those? I'm reviewing the Elex, and they're def 10/10 material. They're simply the best sounding headphones I've heard to date. I'd imagine the Clear and its ilk are 10/10 in their price ranges as well.


I am also reviewing them and in some points there are even better than the Clear OG!


----------



## Zachik

Qupie said:


> *Overkill?* Probably!


Haha - I think this 1 word describes this entire hobby!


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## Qupie (May 9, 2021)

Yes they are the clear mg, they sound absolutely gorgeous. Just been watching streams to focus on audio for a few hours and I didn't know there was so much detail in warzone.

Have seen complaints about the width of the sound stage, and it isn't the widest, but there is plenty to make it sound spacious imho. By far the most accurate imaging I have ever heard.

Was worried about comfort, but while big and heavy they are really comfortable.

If you are looking for an end game music headphone that is great for gaming, I can really recommend them.


----------



## Qupie

Question regarding the schiit hel: what bitrate do you set in windows? Since I use Qobuz, I set it at 24 bit 44.1, is that a good way to make that decision?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Qupie said:


> Question regarding the schiit hel: what bitrate do you set in windows? Since I use Qobuz, I set it at 24 bit 44.1, is that a good way to make that decision?


CD-audio is 16-bit/44.1k, DVD movie audio is 24-bit/48K, Blu-ray movie audio is even higher.
What audio are you listening to?


----------



## Ichos

Qupie said:


> Question regarding the schiit hel: what bitrate do you set in windows? Since I use Qobuz, I set it at 24 bit 44.1, is that a good way to make that decision?


You should set it at 24/192.
It is the maximum offered by Qobuz.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Question regarding the schiit hel: what bitrate do you set in windows? Since I use Qobuz, I set it at 24 bit 44.1, is that a good way to make that decision?


If you're using it for VSS (in gaming) like Dolby Atmos, you have to set it at 24/48K. Lower and there's noticeable sound lag. Higher and it disables your VSS.




On my Jot 2 running solely Qobuz, it's as earlier stated. 24/192K


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## Mad Lust Envy (May 11, 2021)

I've never noticed any sound lag and I put it at the max. I've never had any issues with the oversampling on any of my dacs except one which would bug out unless I kept it to 24bit, instead of 32bit. But other than that one, never had any issues.

Set it to the max and see if you hear ANYTHING remotely off. I certainly don't.


----------



## Chastity

I use 32/96, and use Redscape to mix and play my 5.1 DVD-A 24/96 rips.


----------



## Dijitalism

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Perhaps a Creative Aurvana Live. I can't think of much that the controller can power. The internal amp is weak.


Cheers. Ended up placing an order for the PC38X..which arrives in a month no less!


----------



## Chastity

Dijitalism said:


> Cheers. Ended up placing an order for the PC38X..which arrives in a month no less!


Seeing how Sennheiser is selling off the Consumer Division, I am skiddish about buying Sennheiser in 2021, and after.


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## JES (May 11, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've never noticed any sound lag and I put it at the max. I've never had any issues with the oversampling on any of my dacs except one which would bug out unless I kept it to 24bit, instead of 32bit. But other than that one, never had any issues.
> 
> Set it to the max and see if you hear ANYTHING remotely off. I certainly don't.


I just duplicated my issue. Setting lower than 24/48K introduces lag <EDIT: when re-enabling Atmos> (audio behind video). It also disables Atmos. And setting higher (I tried 24/192 and 32/192) disables Atmos.

Since I use the Hel 2 only for gaming (always with Atmos) and general PC use (YouTube, etc.), leaving it at 24/48K isn't an issue for me. Without Atmos, I could set it higher as you suggest. That's why I qualified my statement with "If you're using it for VSS".

In the midst of me trying to figure this out a month ago, I asked you via DM if you had ever experienced latency with your Hel 2. I finally figured out it was an Atmos thing.


----------



## Dijitalism

Chastity said:


> Seeing how Sennheiser is selling off the Consumer Division, I am skiddish about buying Sennheiser in 2021, and after.


What do you mean? I thought the PC38X were the best wired option.


----------



## Detrimentation

Hi guys, for someone looking for 75% competitive soundwhoring/25% immersive gaming which headphones would be a good compromise? Currently using Sennheiser Game Ones but thinking of upgrading


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JES said:


> I just duplicated my issue. Setting lower than 24/48K introduces lag <EDIT: when re-enabling Atmos> (audio behind video). It also disables Atmos. And setting higher (I tried 24/192 and 32/192) disables Atmos.
> 
> Since I use the Hel 2 only for gaming (always with Atmos) and general PC use (YouTube, etc.), leaving it at 24/48K isn't an issue for me. Without Atmos, I could set it higher as you suggest. That's why I qualified my statement with "If you're using it for VSS".
> 
> In the midst of me trying to figure this out a month ago, I asked you via DM if you had ever experienced latency with your Hel 2. I finally figured out it was an Atmos thing.


Thing is, I use the Hel 2 with Redscape and still don't notice anything like that. So yeah, it might just be an Atmos thing alone.


----------



## ricardovix

Hello Guys! Do you think HyperX Orbit S (same as Audeze Mobius) would be an upgrade over Sennheiser HD 598?

I'll use it to play offline games on my PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X only. Online games will be 1% of the time (almost 2 years without playing multiplayer games).

No movies or music, just games.

Thank you!


----------



## Qupie

PurpleAngel said:


> What audio are you listening to?



Only Qobuz really, and youtube / twitch 



Ichos said:


> You should set it at 24/192.
> It is the maximum offered by Qobuz.


Thnx going to try that!


JES said:


> If you're using it for VSS (in gaming) like Dolby Atmos


I only use my laptop for listening to music and watching some youtube/twitch. So no reason to take that into account . I use my PS5 for gaming and that will do whatever it will do with the Hel I suppose, no way to influence any of that. 


JES said:


> On my Jot 2 running solely Qobuz, it's as earlier stated. 24/192K


Thnx going to try that


Mad Lust Envy said:


> Set it to the max and see if you hear ANYTHING remotely off. I certainly don't.


Yeah I hadn't changed it at all, but sometimes I have these small pops. I think (fairly certain) it is a limitation of the very badly optimized qobuz software, and my somewhat older laptop. Especially when opening multiple chrome tabs and other work related programs, it starts to pop or stutter. So I imagined a lower bitrate would also mean a lower load on my pc (not sure if that is true actually...). Therefore, I think it would be best to stay as close to my source (Qobuz) as possible, but honestly I haven't really done any research in how windows handles different bitrates and down/up sampling and all of that. 

I guess this is quite of topic though... Hope that is okay. At least it is a gaming device I guess lol


----------



## Qupie (May 12, 2021)

Very weird stuff happens with the Hel sometimes, but I am not sure it is the fault of the HEL, or of the Qobuz web player....

When I listen to this song for example https://open.qobuz.com/track/120963541, with the hel set at 24 bit, 192 khz, I hear some weird popping sounds.

When I set the hel at 24 bit 48 khz (like the song is recorded in) I hear no such popping sounds....

Any idea why this happens?

Some trouble shooting I tried: unplugging the Hell, used another USB port, and plugging it back in the original USB port again. Now it is gone, in both usb ports it works fine.... I have really little knowledge on these kind of things, so hopefully someone understands why this happens. Maybe a driver issue? (I had the message: windows is setting up the Hel) so maybe windows fixed the problem now?

Edit: hope it is okay to ask this here. There are multiple people here with the Hel 2, and the device is still quite rare in consumers hands I believe. Let me know if not I will remove the post.

Edit 2: Problem came back 30 min later (also in a high res track, 24 / 44.1 this time...). Does the Hel have a hard time switching different bitrates?

Edit 3: Happens every 20-30 min or so, a power cycle fixes it.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Very weird stuff happens with the Hel sometimes, but I am not sure it is the fault of the HEL, or of the Qobuz web player....
> 
> When I listen to this song for example https://open.qobuz.com/track/120963541, with the hel set at 24 bit, 192 khz, I hear some weird popping sounds.
> 
> ...


Have you tried the Qobuz windows app? It's a resource hog. You may want to pose this one in the Qobuz thread ... more eyes.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> Have you tried the Qobuz windows app? It's a resource hog. You may want to pose this one in the Qobuz thread ... more eyes.


Yeah that gives me other problems sometimes (resource related). But will post in the Qobuz thread for sure. Not sure where the problem lies honestly, thought it would be the Hel, since a power cycle fixed it. But will do some more trouble shooting with my old fiio Dac/amp too to see if it happens there too. 

Very frustrating problems issues. Stuttering music while working is the worst X-D


----------



## Chastity (May 12, 2021)

Dijitalism said:


> What do you mean? I thought the PC38X were the best wired option.


Sennheiser has sold it's Consumer Division to a Swiss company come effective at the end of 2021, allowing transition time.  The Consumer Division includes their gamer, audio, and audiophile headphone line-up, unless the product was covered by EPOS, which they already sold off.  Sennheiser will be focusing on the Pro market going forward.


----------



## Evshrug (May 12, 2021)

Dijitalism said:


> What do you mean? I thought the PC38X were the best wired option.


Sennheiser’s consumer division is going to continue, though they are partnering with Swiss audio company Sonova. Sennheiser’s current line of products and new products will continue to be produced by the same people at the same places they are at now, under the same brand.

All of the Gaming products, including the PC38X that was an exclusive model made just for Drop customers, are part of EPOS audio, a former joint venture that ended before the PC38X released. They do use Sennheiser drivers, but it’s an EPOS product. Regardless, warranties are still intact.


----------



## Jebron (May 12, 2021)

Hi All,

I'm brand new here and I'm currently using a Schiit Hel 2 with the SHP9500's for most of my gaming on PS5. I absolutely love this setup, but curious if anyone has experience with some of the wireless headsets, namely the Arctis 7P? The Hel 2 and SHP9500 work great when I'm at my desk, but I'd love to move the PS5 to the living room on our new TV and need a wireless solution. The SHP9500's work great through the DualSense, but seem a little under powered.

Also, if I absolutely love the SHP9500, is there anything less than $250 that's worth upgrading to? I love the open back and comfort of the SHP9500, but I'm considering upgrading sometime soon as well.


----------



## ronfifer

Kronk said:


> Hello honored hifi-heads! Sorry for the long incoherent post and bless you, if you are able to make sense of it!
> I've been rocking a pair of AKG ear buds worth 10$ for years now and I thought it was time to try something else! I have been looking at reviews and comparisons for the last 2 weeks and I would love to make a decision soon, I am getting consumed by using so much time on trying to decide!
> I do not have any sort of DAC or AMP. I don't play FPS at a competitive level, but loads of singleplayer RPG's and open world games, the only FPS I play is Hunt: Showdown and even my 10$ earbuds manages to make use of the spatial sound to create pretty good imaging in that game. It seems like Beyerdynamics DT-990 has better sound imaging than the Fidelio X2HR but it seems like you sacrifice some of the "fun"/"entertainment" for that extra competitive edge.
> Music tastes are all over the place, not 1 genre that overshadows the others comes to mind.
> ...


if you want open world, you need soundstage. And if you want fun, you need some bass. For that I would recommend:
-K712 or K612
-DT990 600ohm
-Monolith M570 (using warm preset in Dolby Atmos, or manually bump up the bass a bit)



Sam21 said:


> I already have the Sony MA900 but I am looking for a headphone that beats the Sony in terms of soundstage size, separation and placement..
> 
> I am looking at K702 and AD700x … which one of these serves me better ?


K702 has the better quality sound in this category (soundstage, separation, imaging). However, the k702 needs an amp. The AD700x does not need an amp.
Also the air in open worlds sounds grainy with the AD700X.


----------



## ricardovix

Hello Guys! Do you think HyperX Orbit S (same as Audeze Mobius) would be an upgrade over Sennheiser HD 598?

I'll use it to play offline games on my PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X only. Online games will be 1% of the time (almost 2 years without playing multiplayer games).

No movies or music, just games.

Thank you!


----------



## matbil0

how are the new EPOS h3?

https://www.eposaudio.com/en/it/gaming/products/h3-black-gaming-headset-1000888


----------



## matbil0

ricardovix said:


> Hello Guys! Do you think HyperX Orbit S (same as Audeze Mobius) would be an upgrade over Sennheiser HD 598?
> 
> I'll use it to play offline games on my PC, PS5 and Xbox Series X only. Online games will be 1% of the time (almost 2 years without playing multiplayer games).
> 
> ...


for the sound quality yes but the comfort of the Orbit S was bad for my head and that's why I returned them.


----------



## gingercatlife

Hello audiophiles! I'm trying to find which headphones has the best imaging for locating enemies in games. Comfort doesn't matter, bass doesn't matter, purely 100% locating the enemies in 3D space (imaging not soundstage). I haven't really found an answer for this so maybe it becomes a subjective matter after a certain treshold?

So the headphones I'm looking at are (~200e): AKG K702, K712, DT990, HD599. First page of this thread seems to give the competitive edge to K702, but then again I'm reading conflicting reports for DT990 having the better imaging even tho it's soundstage is not as wide..


----------



## Zedbrig (May 14, 2021)

Hello all, hope everyone is doing well. I'm looking for some advice and headphone recommendations for gaming. I've been using DT 770 pro 250 ohm headphones with a Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber, but sadly the headphones have snapped after the plastic wore away after slowly being stretched onto my massive head for years. I'm excited to try something new to be honest though. My main use for headphones will be for competitive gaming, any recommendations? Budget is around £250/$350. I've read through Shin's amazing gaming guide but there's so many choices and I'm not sure which would pair best with my setup.

I also have some other questions: Should I be using VSS or any special Dolby features, or is plain stereo sound best? Also wondering what default bitrate format should be set in Windows. I'm using Windows 10 and read that I should use 24 bit 48k and turn off enhancements a few years ago and I've stuck to that for years, but recently I read that the max possible bitrate would be best for gaming. Also, my Schiit stack shows up as "realtek digital output in windows" screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/R6tY0WF.png - is that normal? I saw an image a few posts back from this new one where someone can see their Schiit device in Windows but it's a different model. Made me curious.

Appreciate any help!


----------



## JES

Zedbrig said:


> Hello all, hope everyone is doing well. I'm looking for some advice and headphone recommendations for gaming. I've been using DT 770 pro 250 ohm headphones with a Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber, but sadly the headphones have snapped after the plastic wore away after slowly being stretched onto my massive head for years. I'm excited to try something new to be honest though. My main use for headphones will be for competitive gaming, any recommendations? Budget is around £250/$350. I've read through Shin's amazing gaming guide but there's so many choices and I'm not sure which would pair best with my setup.
> 
> I also have some other questions: Should I be using VSS or any special Dolby features, or is plain stereo sound best? Also wondering what default bitrate format should be set in Windows. I'm using Windows 10 and read that I should use 24 bit 48k and turn off enhancements a few years ago and I've stuck to that for years, but recently I read that the max possible bitrate would be best for gaming. Also, my Schiit stack shows up as "realtek digital output in windows" screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/R6tY0WF.png - is that normal? I saw an image a few posts back from this new one where someone can see their Schiit device in Windows but it's a different model. Made me curious.
> 
> Appreciate any help!


I can't speak to your headphone question. I use the PC38X headset because I like a boom mic when I'm playing.

I definitely prefer Dolby Atmos to stereo. Call me crazy, but I like hearing people and cues behind, above, below (primarily a COD player). When I forget to enable Atmos, I immediately know it. Does it "sound" better than stereo. I don't know. I'm interested in sound location more than sound fidelity when gaming. That may determine what you use. Since Atmos is a cheap (possibly free) thing to try, give it a go and see for yourself. As far as "enhancements" go, I use some eq to boost footsteps (Equalizer APO/PEACE). That's it. I think ultimately, your hardware, game(s), and ears will determine what works best.

Atmos locks me into 24/48 for reasons I posted in this thread a few days ago (post #46,856).

My Schiit devices show up in the Windows Sound details, but Realtek(R) is my laptop speakers. Are you able to see all the sound devices connected to your pc? Right click to show disabled and disconnected devices. That may give you a clue.


----------



## Zedbrig

Thanks for the info. I have disabled devices shown and still only see realtek digital output as my only sound device even though I have the magni/modi connected, pretty strange.


----------



## Sam21

K701/2 + Memory foam pads == K712

Q701 + Memory foam pads == K7xx

???

I am looking for a headphone with huge soundstage, So I am picking K701 since the reviews say they have the largest soundstage...

According to reviews, K701 lacks bass, Would changing the pads on K701 to memory foam increase the bass ?

How would a K701 sound with a memory foam ear pads ?

Are there other ear pads for K701 ? How would they affect the sound ?


----------



## Zedbrig

JES said:


> I can't speak to your headphone question. I use the PC38X headset because I like a boom mic when I'm playing.
> 
> I definitely prefer Dolby Atmos to stereo. Call me crazy, but I like hearing people and cues behind, above, below (primarily a COD player). When I forget to enable Atmos, I immediately know it. Does it "sound" better than stereo. I don't know. I'm interested in sound location more than sound fidelity when gaming. That may determine what you use. Since Atmos is a cheap (possibly free) thing to try, give it a go and see for yourself. As far as "enhancements" go, I use some eq to boost footsteps (Equalizer APO/PEACE). That's it. I think ultimately, your hardware, game(s), and ears will determine what works best.
> 
> ...


It turns out my usb connector wasn't connected. The port must be faulty, so I switched it and it now shows in Windows like this: https://i.imgur.com/d2AmPJA.png - strangely says it's a speaker not an amplifier. and it's set to 32 bit/48k by default...should I change that?


----------



## JES

Zedbrig said:


> It turns out my usb connector wasn't connected. The port must be faulty, so I switched it and it now shows in Windows like this: https://i.imgur.com/d2AmPJA.png - strangely says it's a speaker not an amplifier. and it's set to 32 bit/48k by default...should I change that?


You can change the icon and description by right-clicking and selecting properties.



As far as the bit depth and frequency, change that to whatever your music software outputs at max and see how it sounds. Double-check that you're not exceeding the max of your DAC's specs.


----------



## matbil0

is the epos gsx 300 a bad entry level amp?


----------



## DSebastiao

So, my mixamp pro 2013 broke, solution should be to buy a new one? I need it to mix the audio from the pc and the ps4, also, i don't know if the newer ones have 7.1 audio?


----------



## PurpleAngel

DSebastiao said:


> So, my mixamp pro 2013 broke, solution should be to buy a new one? I need it to mix the audio from the pc and the ps4, also, i don't know if the newer ones have 7.1 audio?


Seems like a job for the Creative Labs G6 (or G5) USB sound card (best guess).


----------



## Qupie

DSebastiao said:


> So, my mixamp pro 2013 broke, solution should be to buy a new one? I need it to mix the audio from the pc and the ps4, also, i don't know if the newer ones have 7.1 audio?


Not sure where you live, but in Europe you can have my old one for 10 bucks + shipping. 

Not sure if the G6 can mix in PC audio.


----------



## DSebastiao

PurpleAngel said:


> Seems like a job for the Creative Labs G6 (or G5) USB sound card (best guess).


Completely forgot about it, looks good, i just couldn't understand from the review the aplication of the optical out port in the back, could it be used to connect a schiit magni for instance?


Qupie said:


> Not sure where you live, but in Europe you can have my old one for 10 bucks + shipping.
> 
> Not sure if the G6 can mix in PC audio.



Is it a 2013?


----------



## Chastity

DSebastiao said:


> Completely forgot about it, looks good, i just couldn't understand from the review the aplication of the optical out port in the back, could it be used to connect a schiit magni for instance?


The rear output port is a 3.5mm stereo analog AND a 3.5mm toslink optical.  You enable either mode in Command (Speaker Mode).  The toslink is limited to 24/48 SPDIF.

You can use the toslink out to another DAC and amp (for example, the G6 is then a 7.1 virtualizer) or use the analog out to an amplifier.


----------



## DSebastiao

Chastity said:


> The rear output port is a 3.5mm stereo analog AND a 3.5mm toslink optical.  You enable either mode in Command (Speaker Mode).  The toslink is limited to 24/48 SPDIF.
> 
> You can use the toslink out to another DAC and amp (for example, the G6 is then a 7.1 virtualizer) or use the analog out to an amplifier.


Thanks, forgot one detail, does it apply the virtualization and amp/dac to both the optical in and the usb? Or is there a difference between both ports (also does it then apply both to the optical out?).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I should be posting the Vali 2+ impressions within 12 hours. Then I'm moving to the Elex review. After that it's either Fulla 4 or Creative GC7, whichever arrives first. THEN I may actually get around to the Emu Teak.

I also really wish I had an Xbox Series X so I can start helping some of you guys in setting it up with audio gear. Right now I can only speculate. I haven't owned an Xbox since the 360 days really.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 20, 2021)

----------
----------

*Schiit Vali 2+

*
$149 as of May 2021
*Where to Buy: **Vali 2+ at Schiit.com*

_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Schiit's Jason Stoddard for sending out the Vali 2+ for my impressions. I personally reached out to them to get a Vali 2+ for review. It was entirely on my end as I was curious about current tube amplification and how it relates to other non-tube gear. _

As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Schiit, Jason, or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything other than for my honest impressions. That's it.

Here is an excerpt from my 2019 Fulla 3 and Hel review (edited for Vali 2+ specificity), which still applies here:

_"As I'm someone who doesn't feel comfortable with dac/amp reviews, this particular "review" will be a bit more freestyle, with a more relaxed, thoughts on paper approach to writing, as opposed to my typical review process of trying to make it as professional as I possibly can. I think it's better for it, as I don't feel right about trying to condense my thoughts into my common review style for headphones for amp/dacs. It's why you haven't seen any full on review of anything outside of the gaming dac/amps that were easier to write about due to the software features. As Schiit's dac/amps are more simplistic, without any software, it wouldn't work quite the same. This entry will not be as long as those reviews, but I'll do my best in trying to make it legible to a degree. Thanks for your understanding.

I also know those in my small corner of the audiophile community like and use virtual surround devices, which the *Vali 2+* is not. So this isn't aimed at them, and here I'm writing this 'review' for everyone else who doesn't need or use stuff like that, and just want the raw, untouched, stereo sound. Besides, the Vali 2+ makes an excellent amplifier outside of gaming as well, so they may still be interested in it."_

The Vali 2+ is niche within a niche, as in people who want an external amplifier, as well as the amplifier being tube based.



*Intro*​
It's been nearly a decade since I last touched a tube amplifier of any kind. This is not because tubes don't interest me, or because I've had bad experiences. On the contrary, one of my favorite sounding amplifiers was the original Schiit Vali on stock tubes, despite their ringing and hum. It just had a really engaging sound, that just made the toes tap and forget about anything technical. It was sweetness that I don't believe can be found out of a pure solid state amplifier. On the other end, I also had the original Schiit Lyr which I felt was a bit harsher than the solid states I owned at the time, though I didn't roll any tubes at that time. I didn't stick to the tube gear for too long.

For the longest time, I just wanted the simplicity of a solid state amplifier where I never had to worry about replacing any parts, as well as not wanting anything to impart any sort of signature to a headphone's own inherent tonal qualities. The benefit of a solid state's better measurements wasn't lost on me, though I'm not someone that believes anything measured but not heard means much of anything. The proof is in the pudding, as they say. If it sounds good, I could care less about measurements that only lab equipment can pick up. It's fine if you want to chase the best possible numbers, but then you're not listening to your gear.

What better way to get back into tubes than see what Schiit has done to improve on what was my first tube amplifier back in my early days of audiophilia? The Vali 2+ has come a long way from the original Vali. It's the 3rd version of the Vali, and has been internally redone, with higher quality specs and parts, but with a simpler, single tube install, so no longer needing to match tubes or have to replace both if one goes bad, etc. Just one and done. Easiest way to get into tubes, if you ask me. I didn't get a chance to hear the plain Vali 2, so I can't comment on how the Vali 2+ improves on it, other than power output for headphones. You'd have to ask Schiit.



*Build*​
It may come as no surprise, but Schiit has mostly kept to the same exact outer design, dimensions, and aesthetics as their very first pieces of gear back nearly a decade ago. I've always been a fan of Schiit's product design, so this serves me just fine. It pairs and stacks up perfectly with Modis, Magnis, and Lokis. I follow the simple mindset of not fixing things that aren't broke. The Vali 2 looks great, feels solid and durable, and is small enough to fit most spaces where an amplifier would be found necessary.



*Front (left to right):*

There isn't much (nor should there be much to any amplifier, in my opinion). You get the Schiit logo with Vali 2 printed in front (I wish Schiit actually added the + symbol to differentiate it from the original Vali 2, but oh well).

*Volume Knob -* Nearing the right you get the volume knob which you can pull off with some moderate force. Not sure what kind of material it's made out of. Looks metallic, but doesn't have much weight to it. My only real gripe with the knob is that the volume indicator is almost useless. Schiit, I love you guys, but I think it's time you add a solid, colored bar as an indicator. Outside of shining a light a specific way, it's incredibly hard to see the indicator. I personally have to force my head towards the Vali in order to see where the volume level is at.

I also use the Vali 2+ as a preamp to my Jotunheim 2 (to impart some tubey effects to the Jot 2).  When I do so, I set the Vali 2+ to low gain, and max out the volume pot (for line level out). Thing is, whenever I just wanna use the Vali 2+, I have to remind myself to check the volume very closely to lower the it where it won't blow my headphones. So yes, I need a better volume indicator in the future, Schiit.

*1/4" headphone input -* Not much to say here other than Schiit uses a very good 1/4" input. I'll take 1/4" inputs over 3.5mm any day of the week. They're easier to plug in, last longer, and it's much easier to add a 1/4" snap or screw on adapter to a 3.5mm plug rather than getting a 3.5mm to a 1/4" adapter.


*Rear (left to right):

*

The rear is nearly as simplistic as the front.

*RCA L/R In -* How else would you connect your source to the amplifier? I'd much rather have RCA in, rather than 3.5mm input.

*High/Low Gain switch -* Labelled Hi/Low, it does what you think it does. The gain switch goes from 0db at low gain to quite a bit more at high gain. It also changes the output impedance from 0.4ohm to 1.8ohm. Schiit has some of the best 'switch feels' out there. Toggling the switch has an audible clunk that is just...perfect. Feels good man.

*RCA L/R Out -* If you want to use the Vali 2+ as volume controlled pre-amp, this is where you plug into, keeping in mind that plugging in any headphone in the front will mute the pre-amp out. Believe it or not, the pre-amp function is actually the main reason I wanted to try out the Vali 2+ in the first place. I wanted the ability to send the Vali 2+'s tube characteristics to be sent to a "better/more powerful" amplifier. I own a Schiit Jotunheim 2 amplifier as my main amp, and wanted to test out and utilize all that goodness, with the Vali 2+ as a tube buffer.

*On/Off Switch -* The same feeling switch as the Hi/Lo. Feels good to turn it on/off, and as Schiit states, _"Vali 2+ has a relay mute for delayed startup and fast shut-down."_

*24/6 VAC input -* this is the first time I've ever seen this type of input as well as its plug. Very interesting, and Schiit has more to say about it in their product page, so if you're interested, better to hear it from the Schiit themselves.


*Top:*

Not much here other than the main reason you'd want a Vali 2+ in the first place, the tube. The tube is surrounded by a lot of circular openings for ventilation, set in a circular pattern. The original Vali 2 had the openings set in a more octagonal pattern. Other than the real label stating what Vali you have, this is the easiest way to tell which version you have if you got the Vali secondhand.

The included 6BZ7 tube doesn't come pre-installed, so you'll have to do it yourself. The tube 'input' is pretty easy to see and recessed just enough to protect it, but not so far recessed that it'd make it hard to insert a tube.


*Final Build Quality Impressions:*

Not much to say if you've ever owned any piece of Schiit. It's pretty standard fare. The body feels like a solid chunk of metal, , the switches are still as amazing as they were about a decade ago, and all the inputs are juuuuust right. The only issue I have with the Vali 2+ is the volume indicator, which I sincerely hope Schiit addresses in the future. It's a recurring issue with the silver colored Schiit gear, not so much with the black variants.

Aside from that, I love how Schiit gear looks, and how hefty they are. This does not change with the Vali 2+.



*Accessories*​
The Vali 2+ comes with bare minimum. You get the Vali, the 6BZ7 tube, and the power adapter. That's it.



You'll have to source your own RCA cables, which I think is fine, since we're all likely to have our own cables of varying lengths. I prefer they omit it, rather than have throw away cables that may be too short. You can get decent RCA cables for very little these days.



*Ease of Use*​
There's not much to learn in terms of amplifiers, so they should be easy enough for a child to use. The only thing to worry about with the Vali 2+ that makes it a little harder to use than something like a Magni, is the tube aspect. Schiit states the tube can last over 5,000 hours, so you shouldn't have to worry TOO much about the life of a tube, unless you make the mistake of always leaving the amplifier on.

Other than that, just be wary you don't accidentally hit the glass or burn yourself. The tube gets hot... though not to the point of causing instant burns.

The Vali 2+ may not be the most pet friendly amplifier. If you have cats... I'd be afraid that they'd be attracted to the tube warmth and accidentally break it, so you've been warned.



*Amplification*​
The Vali 2+ has gained a bit more power over the Vali 2, though if you're mainly interested in having power for most headphones, the Magni at $99 has quite a bit more than the Vali 2+ for quite a bit less in cost. Despite that, the Vali 2+ does offer enough power for most headphones, though with less headroom than the Magni. If you're worried about a particularly hard to drive headphone, perhaps look elsewhere. If you're using most headphones that aren't distinctly known for their inability to be driven efficiently, the Vali 2+ should more than suffice.



*Sound*​
There are a couple of things I need to say. This isn't limited to the Vali 2+ but tube amps in general. This is going to be a hot take, so I expect this to upset some of you.

I don't follow the collective mindset that thinks everything that isn't the stock tube is better. Why? Because I consider this expectation and justification bias. People will always want tubes they spent money on to sound better than whatever tubes an amp comes with, and so they're already under the belief that anything they use that isn't stock is going to be better. The comparisons were skewed from the start. So no, I don't believe it when people are like "Oh yeah, I swapped in to 19XX XYZ tubes from Nowheresville, and it's improved the transparency, clarity, smoothness, etc, etc." They start believing their own skewed results that it becomes fact down the line.

Like... do they have another Vali 2+ with the stock tube, volume matched where they can easily blind test and A/B compare with their Vali 2+ that has their fancy tube swap? My money is on NO. So again, skewed results from the start. Also, the process to turn off the Vali 2+, swap out to another tube, turn it back on, wait for the sound to come back on, match the volume level, and then compare is waaaaaay too long to get an accurate assessment on the differences.

Do I think tube swaps offer a difference to the sound? Absolutely. That's what people need to understand. I didn't say tubes don't make a difference. I'm saying to take what people say about their tube swaps with a grain of salt, especially when they don't have two of the same amplifier, volume matched, with an easy way to A/B compare blindly. In their mind, the coke bottle tube that cost them as much as their amp is already expected to sound better than the stock tube, regardless of whether it actually does or not.

I personally think that if you're going to have a tube amp, you WANT that tube amp to offer up a distinctly different quality to the sound compared to a moderate solid state amp that is clean, linear and relatively transparent. You WANT the tube amp to sound different. Of course, this also falls under expectation and justification bias. You got a tube amp, and so you're going to believe it's different than an SS amp.



That being said, the stock 6BZ7 tube sounds fine. By fine, I mean it doesn't really impart much of tonal shift over a normal SS amp like a Magni. I don't have a Magni here at the moment, to compare, but I do have some other SS amps, and I do agree that the Vali 2+ stock tube is fairly well behaved and SS-ish in that it's not particularly "tube-y". This is both good and bad. Good in that it's a very competent amplifier out of the box, that won't drastically change how a headphone sounds. You can plug in your headphones, and they sound just as you expect. Bad in that in getting a tube amplifier, I would've wanted a noticeable change from my other gear.

Despite my thinking that a tube amp should sound different than an SS amp, having a clean, linear sounding tube stock is probably the wiser choice, in case this is the only amplifier certain people will use. You want something moderate that isn't going to skew a headphone's sound any particular way. If you want to alter the sound, that's what tube rolling is for. So I think it is best to have a linear sounding tube by default.



As for tube rolling, after doing some homework, I went with an 6922 EH gold pin, because I've heard it's one of the softest sounding tubes, which would make a great contrast to most linear sounding SS amps. While I was already affected by expectation bias since I anticipated a softer sound, I did find the very subtle difference to be enough where the 6922 gold gave me JUST enough of a contrast to my SS amps. For one, I liked the 6XX with the stock tube, but thought it leaned too far towards the smooth side with the 6922 gold, that I didn't enjoy it as much. On the positive side, it gave the Focal Elex a very minor boost in richness and warmth which made it even more enjoyable than on the stock tube. Again, we're in a game of extreme subtleties.

I won't sit here talking at length about the Vali 2+'s sound quality. All I can say is that by default, the Vali 2+ sounds great. Clean, no perceivable noise or hum, with enough power to drive many headphones with plenty of headroom. Not all, and you may feel it should've had more headroom, but I think under most circumstances, the Vali 2+ has plenty of power.

For a more positive, perhaps "I'm hearing things that may not be real type of impressions", what I'll say next is how I felt, and not so much how I absolutely think is 100% accurate to what is actually happening.

I really, really like how the Vali 2+ alone adds just a certain amount of pleasant, subtle fuzziness to the sound. Like, imagine a a sharp mountain peak, and something filed down the peak into being blunt. Imagine an upside down V becoming an upside U. That's how I feel the Vali turns things into, if only JUST. I wouldn't call it measurable. I'd call it psychoacoustic, maybe? Like, it won't change what your headphone sounds like. It's not an EQ that corrects frequencies. It's just a special little 'something' that is added.

It's more like... if say, my Jotunheim 2 is tactile, punchy and hard hitting, the Vali 2+ with the EH6922 gold tube sounds not as refined, and not as pristine, but softer, more pleasant, and easy going. It's not BETTER. It's just...different? A type of different that you can enjoy even if it's technically worse. This is why people say not to base your sound enjoyment out of what measures better.

Again, it's not better. Technically, it can definitely considered inferior, but depending on headphone, it can sound more pleasing to listen to. And as always, and as I stated before, this is very subtle, and you'd have to really pay attention to truly appreciate what's being done. I wouldn't be mad if someone said they can't hear a damn difference. I wouldn't argue that. It's that subtle, to where I question myself.



In any case, you'll definitely have to experiment with tubes, as some may just sound too close to solid state-ish that the difference is essentially imperceptible.

With that said, as subtle as these things may be, I wouldn't ever go into tube amplification thinking it's going to transform your listening experience. For that, I'd recommend you change to a different transducer, whether it's a different headphone, or a different speaker, that's what REALLY transforms the listening experience. Everything else is just minor subtleties that may not be worth the time and investment. Short of changing your headphones/speakers, something like a Schiit Loki or software EQ that specifically alters the frequencies and changes them however you want, is really what will noticeably change the sound.

As for me, the Vali 2+ is a perfect entry point into the world of tube amplification, and has made me more interested in how the better, higher end gear sprinkles the sound with their unique traits. Will I tube roll past what I have with the Vali 2+? Personally, no, not really. I merely wanted to try something to see how different it could sound from my Jotunheim 2 and other solid state amplifiers. I'm not falling deep down the rabbit hole into the world of tubes. Of course, I'd like to test out other types of tube amps like the SET designs and OTL designs like the Valhalla 2. But I'm happy sticking to the Jotunheim 2 for now. If I ever felt a need to upgrade or replace, I'd consider maybe a Lyr 3 for myself.



*Pre-amp*​
The main reason for me wanting to try out the Vali 2+ (as stated earlier), was to use it as a preamp for my Jotunheim 2, to inject some tubey goodness as a contrast to the SS dynamics of the Jot 2 alone. Again, I wouldn't be using the stock tube as it's already too close to SS-sound, so I swapped to the EH6922 Gold for this as well.

I also tested the Vali 2+ as a preamp to my Presonus Eris E4.5 powered monitor speakers.

My setup:

Schiit Modius - XLR balanced - Jotunheim 2
Schiit Modius - RCA - Vali 2+ - RCA - Jotunheim 2

So if I want to directly compare the Jot 2 as intended, or the Jot 2 with Vali 2+ flavor, all I have to do is flip a front switch on the Jot 2 from XLR to RCA input. Granted, the XLR input has a bit more gain than RCA, so volume level can't be matched unless I switch the Vali 2+ to high gain. I was able to closely match the volume. All I had to do then was switch the Jot 2's switch from XLR to RCA, which takes a fraction of a second.

What did I find? I found that in both my headphones and speakers, it was nearly indistinguishable to tell one from the other. I have absolutely zero confidence I'd ever pick one out over the other in level matched, blind test.

So for the sake of my needs, I found that using the Vali 2+ as a preamp to the Jot 2 didn't offer any real tube benefit over just going straight from the Modius to the Jotunheim 2. If it sounds disappointing, I'm sorry to say that I'm a realist and I'm not here to tell you about a magical change being done by the tubes here. This doesn't mean better tubes WON'T cause a noticeable change. It just means with the ones I had on hand, in direct comparison, the difference was basically impossible to discern. Take that as you will.



*Personal Recommendations*​
At $150, the Vali 2+ bridges the gap between the Magni and Asgard/Magnius. In almost all instances, I personally think you're better off saving $40-$50 and getting a Magni if you want a great amp that has more power and measures better, or simply stepping up to the considerably beefier Asgard or Magnius for just $50 more than the Vali.

If you're looking at the Vali 2+, it's entirely due to the fact it's the cheapest tube amplifier on the Schiit lineup, and plan on rolling tubes. So you have to go in there with the mindset of wanting a tube amp, which has the trade off of not being as well performing or as powerful as the cheaper Magni variants, and closely creeping up to the cost of the bigger amps.

In short, the Vali 2+ is for those that have done their homework, and want what the Vali 2+ has to offer, and that is a Schiit tube amp that is easy to maintain, and swap tubes for. For everyone else, get the Magni, Asgard, or Magnius. That simple. For me, if I was just getting into getting an amplifier, I'd get the Vali 2+, mainly because I just think it looks cooler than the Magnis, and it performs well enough for me.





*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes*

Clean stock tube sound, no tube hum
Single tube maintenance
Affordable tube rolling
No power LED. Tube glow = ON
Tubes look cool, sue me


*Dislikes*

Volume knob indicator on silver body hard to see
Would like to see power output comparable to Magni 3+/Heresy
May need to roll a different tube to get actual tube sound



*Final Impressions*​
The preamp testing outcomes makes me question how I felt about the Vali 2+ alone as a headphone amp when using the 6922 gold pin tubes, and thinking it was softer and richer than the stock tubes. I felt that way, but it was based off a slow tube swap, so it was a flawed conclusion to begin with.

Is this evidence enough for me to believe tubes are a bunch of audio-foolery? No, not really. I do think there is merit to tubes as I will never forget just how different and brilliant I thought the original Vali sounded, that gave me a really good sense of analog "sound". It's just that the Vali 2+ is so good as an amp that it comes incredibly close to a solid state sound.

I will be the first to admit I don't have vast endless experience with tube amplifiers, having only heard so few of them, but I can with confidence say the two tubes I have on hand here didn't really impart any difference through the preamp out, and any difference I heard through the headphone out may as well been expectation bias. I'm not confident with my own assessment of the sound.

Still, this is about the Vali 2+, and as far as I'm concerned, the Vali 2+ is a fantastic starting point for those who want to get into both Schiit gear or tube amplification. Just manage your expectations on just how much tubes affect the sound, and I think you'll be just fine. Even if all you wanted was a one and done amplifier that you don't even wanna swap tubes for, the Vali 2+ is a bonafide, quality amplifier without any reservations.


----------



## Soundmancan

Hi! Great review and as an Vali 2+ owner as well as a Jot 2 owner, I agree with your assessment. Although during the review you refer to the Modius, did you mean to refer to the Magnius?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 20, 2021)

Soundmancan said:


> Hi! Great review and as an Vali 2+ owner as well as a Jot 2 owner, I agree with your assessment. Although during the review you refer to the Modius, did you mean to refer to the Magnius?


When I said you're better off? Yeah I meant Magnius. It's been corrected. Thanks.


----------



## Chastity

DSebastiao said:


> Thanks, forgot one detail, does it apply the virtualization and amp/dac to both the optical in and the usb? Or is there a difference between both ports (also does it then apply both to the optical out?).


There is a toggle to output Virtualizations (and other effects) over Line-Out/SPDIF-Out.  (I forget if SPDIF has a separate one)


----------



## Qupie (May 21, 2021)

DSebastiao said:


> Completely forgot about it, looks good, i just couldn't understand from the review the aplication of the optical out port in the back, could it be used to connect a schiit magni for instance?
> 
> 
> Is it a 2013?


I do think so, see here for some pictures: https://www.marktplaats.nl/a/audio-...astro-mixamp-2013-n13124.html?previousPage=lr

IF you can get the G6 on B-stock though, that is easily the better buy. I personally wouldn't pay 150 for it though.


----------



## pastuch (May 23, 2021)

Warzone is driving me insane! PC gamer, all I play is Warzone and want the ultimate competitive performance.

Sennheiser PC363D: Had for 7 years, wonderful build, love them for everything but Warzone. Couldn't hear anyone coming in Warzone no matter what I tried. Have used Stereo, Dolby Headphone, Windows Virtual Surround and DTS Headphone X. Nothing worked. Also tried to EQ certain frequencies with this (), still couldn't hear footsteps or identify where they were coming from. Gave them to a friend.

Hyper X Orbit S: Interesting Planar sound, tried built-in surround, Dolby, dts, stereo, etc. Still couldn't hear footsteps or identify where they were coming from. Returned.

Steelseries Arctis Pro: I hated everything about this headset and the positional audio was horrible. Very uncomfortable. Returned.

Logitech G933: I hated everything about this headset and the positional audio was horrible. Very uncomfortable. Might be the ugliest set I've ever seen. Returned

Astro A50: Using Zalias Zeference (https://sites.google.com/view/zeference/home/audio/astro-eqs) preset with Studio in-game, stereo, no virtual surround. This is the best I've tried yet but still extremely disappointing. The audio in Warzone is f'ing terrible! Currently my dailys until I can find something better.

I've been reading the Mad Lust reviews and Falenkors guide (https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/upda...up-now-with-added-hardware-explanations/13863) for days trying to figure out what to try next.

For Warzone exclusively, which would you go for? Amp suggestions welcome:

Beyer DT770 Pro + Mic - $200 CAD
Beyer DT880 Pro (Edition) - $250 CAD + Amp and mic no clue what to get on the amp side.
Audio Technica AD700X - $250 CAD + amp and mic. The prices for this in Canada are ridiculous and makes me want to buy something else.
AKG K701 or something? - $300 ish - I demoed K701 almost 20 years ago and they were the most comfortable cans I've ever tried. Really wish I bought them then, was a broke kid and settled for HD570s at the time.

I don't have any financial restrictions but I do believe in diminishing returns. I'm so frustrated with audio in Warzone I'm considering used HD800 but it's a crazy amount of money.

Open to any and all headphone and amp suggestions. Thanks for your time!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

pastuch said:


> Warzone is driving me insane! PC gamer, all I play is Warzone and want the ultimate competitive performance.
> 
> Sennheiser PC363D: Had for 7 years, wonderful build, love them for everything but Warzone. Couldn't hear anyone coming in Warzone no matter what I tried. Have used Stereo, Dolby Headphone, Windows Virtual Surround and DTS Headphone X. Nothing worked. Also tried to EQ certain frequencies with this (), still couldn't hear footsteps or identify where they were coming from. Gave them to a friend.
> 
> ...



I can hear people coming even with cheapo headphones. Perhaps you just have hearing issues in specific frequencies? Also, I use the Boost audio setting in WZ.

If you can't hear footsteps with any headphone you've used, I doubt anything is going to help.

Try the 

Audio Technica AD700X
AKG K612 Pro
AKG K701
Sennheiser HD800, 800S, 8XX
Hifiman Ananda
Focal Elex

These are all highly detailed. Any of them will work. If you can't hear footsteps, then dunno what to tell you.


----------



## pastuch

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can hear people coming even with cheapo headphones. Perhaps you just have hearing issues in specific frequencies? Also, I use the Boost audio setting in WZ.
> 
> If you can't hear footsteps with any headphone you've used, I doubt anything is going to help.
> 
> ...



Thanks, with Boost in-game do you use any surround sound and if so which and what amp? I own DTS Headphone X and Dolby Atmos for headphones in WIndows.


----------



## Soundmancan

I agree with MLE's assessment above. The Ad700x's have been used by gamers and praised for their ability to hear footsteps as well as a large(ish) soundstage. I would personally forego the use of any 3rd party software or surround sound. I have found these to be a detriment to the stereo audio supplied with the games as they "muddy" up the sound and make it sound worse. Not to mention your headphones only have two drivers (one for each ear) anyway. This is my personal opinion that I have come to after trying many different surround sound options including those from creative, sennheiser, Dobly, DTS etc. Haven't found one that actually does what it says well. Again, just my opinion.


----------



## JES

pastuch said:


> Warzone is driving me insane! PC gamer, all I play is Warzone and want the ultimate competitive performance.
> 
> Sennheiser PC363D: Had for 7 years, wonderful build, love them for everything but Warzone. Couldn't hear anyone coming in Warzone no matter what I tried. Have used Stereo, Dolby Headphone, Windows Virtual Surround and DTS Headphone X. Nothing worked. Also tried to EQ certain frequencies with this (), still couldn't hear footsteps or identify where they were coming from. Gave them to a friend.
> 
> ...



I formerly used A50s with Zalias' presets on Xbox, then moved to PC. I found that Atmos VSS is better than the A50s VSS. I got tired of the poor quality of the A50s when my third headset's boom mic began to fail. I only play WZ (and a little bit of CW zombies to rank up guns).

My setup now that I'm pretty happy with:

- Home Theater audio setting in game (sometimes I put it on boost, but I like HT more usually)
- Dolby Atmos Game mode with Performance Mode On
- The attached EQ APO/Peace settings (that 6 gain bump at 150 Hz is for footsteps and it helped a lot)
- A Schiit Hel 2 set to 24/48. Win volume 100%, Schiit in high gain, vol at about 11:00, headset volume about 2/3 of full. This amp was a huge improvement over the A50s or the PC38x from the headset jack.
- PC38x headset (I want a boom mic). *As to your headset question: I really don't know. I may try a more detailed headset someday, but I question if it'll make much difference because WZ audio is pretty inconsistent and bad.*





I can locate most footsteps (including above and below much of the time, but it's not perfect). It's not fatiguing or overly loud. Sometimes when in vehicles or dropping it's hard to hear chat, but it's a compromise I'm happy to make. I don't like stereo in this game. Actually hate it.

I've done my best to improve every aspect of my setup specific to locational cues in WZ and feel I'm as close as I can get without trying a more expensive headphone/headset. There's only so much that can be done with poor game audio.


----------



## JES

@pastuch I do have the Senn HD 599 in my Amazon wish list as the next thing to try for gaming, but I'm quite happy with the PC38x ATM.


----------



## inmytaxi

I find the slight lack of resolution at the frequency extremes is almost entirely fixed by the addition of a Gold Lion tube, which admittedly adds $45 to the price. But the bass fills out and is cleaner, and the treble is more extended and much more clear.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 24, 2021)

I can only believe statements like that if you had two Valis, one with stock tube, and one with your tube of choice, perfectly volume matched, and with an A/B switch for INSTANT switch comparison. Just swapping out tubes and comparing takes way too long, and all you get is botched results filled with expectation bias. Just that minute to swap is enough to question results.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm simply saying that's the only testing I'll believe.

Just swapping out tubes might change the volume gain just enough for perception changes, hence why volume matching needs to occur. Even a quarter decibel can change our perception.


----------



## iApril 14

Good afternoon, help to solve the problem "the microphone does not work in the chat of the game, I can not hear teammates, and they do not hear me."  I've been suffering with this problem for a year now, probably ... And I still can't figure out what is blocking the sound of the microphone.


My connection is like



 this:

Xbox series X
Hdmi Audio extractor (insignia) (5.1/stereo)
Dac (jds ell dac 2)
Amp (jds atom amp)

Headphones (bayerdynamic dt 990 pro)
Mic (Audio-Technica ATGM2)


I have Y - splitters, but it does not help either, I still have a bunch, I bought a bunch of wires.  I will attach all the photos here.


----------



## Qupie

JES said:


> A Schiit Hel 2 set to 24/48. Win volume 100%, Schiit in high gain, vol at about 11:00, headset volume about 2/3 of full. This amp was a huge improvement over the A50s or the PC38x from the headset jack.


Holy crap badman! That is damn loud! I run it at 10-11 on low gain.... Why the headset volume at 2/3 btw? Does it improve the sound? 


iApril 14 said:


> Xbox series X
> Hdmi Audio extractor (insignia) (5.1/stereo)
> Dac (jds ell dac 2)
> Amp (jds atom amp)
> ...



What do you plug your mic into? The only device you have that can support that is the Xbox controller itself. So Mic in controller, headphones in atom. Then set it in the settings (not sure about that part, I am on playstation)


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> Holy crap badman! That is damn loud! I run it at 10-11 on low gain.... Why the headset volume at 2/3 btw? Does it improve the sound?
> 
> 
> ...


It's actually not too loud. Pre-amp in PEACE is at -2.5, so that tones it down a bit.

I set the headset at 2/3 when I was initially dialing everything in. I had to start somewhere. I "swagged" that it was enough to work but not overwork the drivers. Ultimately I wanted the Schiit to be a bit under 12:00, so it all worked out.


----------



## iApril 14

Qupie said:


> Holy crap badman! That is damn loud! I run it at 10-11 on low gain.... Why the headset volume at 2/3 btw? Does it improve the sound?
> 
> 
> What do you plug your mic into? The only device you have that can support that is the Xbox controller itself. So Mic in controller, headphones in atom. Then set it in the settings (not sure about that part, I am on playstation)


I connect it to the Y splitter, where there are headphones and a microphone.


----------



## ricardovix

Guys, between these options, which headphone/headset would be better to play offline games on ps5/pc?

*Sennheiser HD 598 X Audeze Mobius X Audeze Penrose X Astro A50 Gen 4?*

Thanks!


----------



## inmytaxi

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I can only believe statements like that if you had two Valis, one with stock tube, and one with your tube of choice, perfectly volume matched, and with an A/B switch for INSTANT switch comparison. Just swapping out tubes and comparing takes way too long, and all you get is botched results filled with expectation bias. Just that minute to swap is enough to question results.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm simply saying that's the only testing I'll believe.
> 
> Just swapping out tubes might change the volume gain just enough for perception changes, hence why volume matching needs to occur. Even a quarter decibel can change our perception.


The difference is pretty obvious. I can also report a police siren and an ambulance siren have difference sounds too. I know you won't believe it.


----------



## Qupie

iApril 14 said:


> I connect it to the Y splitter, where there are headphones and a microphone.


Ok, and then what? You connect the mic to your atom amp? Because that AMP doesn't have a microphone input 
Your amplifier (nor the Toslink cable) doesn't have any way to get sound back to your Xbox. 

The only way to make it work with the gear you have, is by putting the mic directly in the controller. If that is unacceptable for you, the only other way is to get a DAC/Amp with a mic input (like the schiit hel).



ricardovix said:


> Guys, between these options, which headphone/headset would be better to play offline games on ps5/pc?
> 
> *Sennheiser HD 598 X Audeze Mobius X Audeze Penrose X Astro A50 Gen 4?*
> 
> Thanks!


Offline games? Anything that you like for music and is comfortable to you honestly. If you are not trying to hear footstep sounds to gain an advantage in online gaming, it is just purely preference. Go to a headphone store and try some headphones. I personally think Astro are pretty crap for their money, the others is more of a preference thing.


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> ... I personally think Astro are pretty crap for their money ...


+1


----------



## ricardovix

Qupie said:


> Offline games? Anything that you like for music and is comfortable to you honestly. If you are not trying to hear footstep sounds to gain an advantage in online gaming, it is just purely preference. Go to a headphone store and try some headphones. I personally think Astro are pretty crap for their money, the others is more of a preference thing.



I own a Sennheiser HD 598 for 7 years and I love it, but because I use it for so long I want to try something new, just to change a bit.

I'm also using a Orbit S (same as mobius) and can't decide between them, sometimes I think sennheiser is better and sometimes I think orbit s/mobius is better.

Actually I want a wireless headset/headphone, but haven't found anything so far that worth the money or aren't a downgrade when compared to my Sennheiser HD 598.


----------



## Qupie

ricardovix said:


> I own a Sennheiser HD 598 for 7 years and I love it, but because I use it for so long I want to try something new, just to change a bit.
> 
> I'm also using a Orbit S (same as mobius) and can't decide between them, sometimes I think sennheiser is better and sometimes I think orbit s/mobius is better.
> 
> Actually I want a wireless headset/headphone, but haven't found anything so far that worth the money or aren't a downgrade when compared to my Sennheiser HD 598.



Have you thought about buying a BTR5 and a really short cable? That makes all your headphones wireless. 

AFAIK there is no Bluetooth headphone that is as good as a wired headphone of the same cost.


----------



## ricardovix

Qupie said:


> Have you thought about buying a BTR5 and a really short cable? That makes all your headphones wireless.
> 
> AFAIK there is no Bluetooth headphone that is as good as a wired headphone of the same cost.



Never heard about this BTR5, I'll looking into it.

Looks like there's no bluetooth/wireless alternative better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for offline gaming.

Is there a *wired* alternative, which is an upgrade over the Sennheiser HD 598? I searched about Sennheiser HD 6XX, HD 600, HD 58X Jubilee, HD 599, HD 560S, Philips SHP9600, X2HR,  Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO and looks like they're almost the same, with subtle differences, so I don't think that any of them are a considerable upgrade.

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

inmytaxi said:


> The difference is pretty obvious. I can also report a police siren and an ambulance siren have difference sounds too. I know you won't believe it.


Ok but did you blind test, volume match, A/B compare? No? Moving on.


----------



## ronfifer

1. Home Theater option is only a 5.1 signal. No upper or lower speakers.
2. No headphone produces upper floor and lower floor positional cues, except the HD800 category, and only partially with the correct source and DSP. 

When you hear upper and lower floor in warzone Tmthis is only your brain processing your knowledge of the map, the sound (footstep volume, footstep reaction to floor type) and visuals all together, making you deduce the position of players up or down.
It's like hearing a helicopter, everyone will say i heard it above me. Not because of their magical headphones, but because....


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So I received the Fulla 4 and Creative GC7 a day apart.

Initial impressions are polar opposites. The Fulla 4 is so simple, elegant, and a darling to use. I recommend this little thing to any budding audiophile that needs a mic input as well.

The GC7, however, was... not so pleasant at first. The device is incredibly complex, and you'll need patience understanding its endless amount of options and quirks. I spent over an hour wondering why I couldn't hear anything, only realizing that the game/voice knob is somehow bugged and backwards. Since I wasn't testing mics at the time, I set the knob fully to Game, and it just so happens that I have to set it to VOICE to get game audio, because of course.

So yes, not the best first day with the GC7.


----------



## duranxv

With gaming audio in general, since it's usually compressed anyway - when do you hit the "overkill" mark when it comes to DAC's?  And has anyone tried an R2R DAC with gaming?


----------



## JES

duranxv said:


> With gaming audio in general, since it's usually compressed anyway - when do you hit the "overkill" mark when it comes to DAC's?  And has anyone tried an R2R DAC with gaming?


Good question. When I describe my Schiit Hel 2 to my non-audio-enthusiast friends and that all it basically does is make things sound better (no VSS), they tell me I'm crazy. From their perspective, it's overkill. To me, it's a sweet spot I suppose. But if I were to look for a separate DAC solution solely for gaming, I'd objectively try to keep it at/under $250.


----------



## Qupie

I still get some popping noise or slight stutters on my hell 2, also on PS5 sometimes. Only like once an hour on ps5 or so though. Also saw some people on reddit complaining about that on the Fulla 4. Have you guys come across that when using it for a longer amount of time?

It is not really a deal breaker, but if I have a defective unit that is only going to get worse I want to get ahead of it asap (need to send it to US etc).

Other than that, I am more impressed by the Hel every day. The sound is just really good for the price


----------



## inmytaxi

I prefer closed headphones to open since the fans from my gpu will not interfere with my audio location attempts so much as with open headphones. Def not Grado!


----------



## JES

Qupie said:


> I still get some popping noise or slight stutters on my hell 2, also on PS5 sometimes. Only like once an hour on ps5 or so though. Also saw some people on reddit complaining about that on the Fulla 4. Have you guys come across that when using it for a longer amount of time?
> 
> It is not really a deal breaker, but if I have a defective unit that is only going to get worse I want to get ahead of it asap (need to send it to US etc).
> 
> Other than that, I am more impressed by the Hel every day. The sound is just really good for the price


FWIW, I'm getting no pops or stutters. I run sometimes three hours straight. I leave it powered on all the time. I have it connected to the PC via an Anker powered USB 3.0 hub using the cable supplied by Schiit. Have you emailed your concerns to them?


----------



## Qupie

Not yet, since I am also still trying to figure out my laptop problems. That is getting fixed though, was tired of it and ordered all components to build a new PC this weekend lol. Though should rule out some problems 

After that I hope to further fine tune my problems and be 100% sure the hel is the culprit. There are simply too many variables at work here...

Thanks for your reply though. it helps to know what is "normal" and what isn't.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Neither the Hel 2 or Fulla 4 have had any weird popping or anything


----------



## inmytaxi

Qupie said:


> I still get some popping noise or slight stutters on my hell 2, also on PS5 sometimes. Only like once an hour on ps5 or so though. Also saw some people on reddit complaining about that on the Fulla 4. Have you guys come across that when using it for a longer amount of time?


I don't think the stutters would be from the Hel, that sounds like a RAM/wifi issue ... the popping could be anything but again, popping from the Hel doesn't sound right. Maybe once or twice and then smoke or silence, but occasional popping and stutters?


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> With gaming audio in general, since it's usually compressed anyway - when do you hit the "overkill" mark when it comes to DAC's?  And has anyone tried an R2R DAC with gaming?


It won't matter too much.  Having a really good DAC is more for the music enjoyment.  I thought the G6 was a decent DAC until I compared it's output to my M300, which allowed me to notice the grainy flaws of the G6.  Now I can't unhear it.  :/

Just use what you are comfortable to afford.


----------



## haziqzaq

First post here. Wondering if I could get some recommendations. I play on PS5 and currently I’m using a Penrose ever since its launch (no DAC/amp whatsoever). Games played are of multiple genres (a lot of Apex Legends, recent single player games include Returnal, RE Village, some Soulsborne). Not too fully satisfied with Penrose due to issues like battery life (I play long hours) but I quite like the sound.

Looking to have another set up with Penrose being used for mostly movies and music. I don’t mind a fully wired headphone (budget of 300 USD; can splurge a lil bit more but just hoping its sound is as good as Penrose or better). Getting Schiit Hel 2 too. And was wondering what would be a good external attachable mic (Vmoda, Modmic??)


----------



## plyr (May 27, 2021)

pastuch said:


> Warzone is driving me insane! PC gamer, all I play is Warzone and want the ultimate competitive performance.
> 
> Sennheiser PC363D: Had for 7 years, wonderful build, love them for everything but Warzone. Couldn't hear anyone coming in Warzone no matter what I tried. Have used Stereo, Dolby Headphone, Windows Virtual Surround and DTS Headphone X. Nothing worked. Also tried to EQ certain frequencies with this (), still couldn't hear footsteps or identify where they were coming from. Gave them to a friend.
> 
> ...




Try this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sof...ts-explosions-etc.899519/page-2#post-15882149
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-gsx-1000-1200-impressions.824923/page-99#post-15939148
and: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sennheiser-gsx-1000-1200-impressions.824923/page-99#post-15938436


----------



## HieroX

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I received the Fulla 4 and Creative GC7 a day apart.
> 
> Initial impressions are polar opposites. The Fulla 4 is so simple, elegant, and a darling to use. I recommend this little thing to any budding audiophile that needs a mic input as well.
> 
> ...


Note to self: Do not touch the mixer knob when I receive mine later in the day. =D


----------



## Zedbrig

So I've tested my new HD 6XX headphones (using a Magni and Modi 2 Uber Dac/Amp) and they sound almost exactly the same as my DT 770 pro's. Wondering if I've done something wrong? Is my dac/amp good enough to run these? And do I need to do anything special in Windows or just plug and play?


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> So I received the Fulla 4 and Creative GC7 a day apart.
> 
> Initial impressions are polar opposites. The Fulla 4 is so simple, elegant, and a darling to use. I recommend this little thing to any budding audiophile that needs a mic input as well.
> 
> ...


Yeah GC7 software is maddening. There is a weird and redundant overlap between SXFI and SBX, the menu isn't really intuitive, and you need to use the separate SXFI app to calibrate SXFI. And the SXFI app also kind of sucks.

Hopefully once you get it dialed in you like it, is this your first SXFI experience? If SXFI wasn't so good (in my humble opinion) I definitely would not suffer Creative's crappy software and weird device design choices.


----------



## HieroX

illram said:


> Yeah GC7 software is maddening. There is a weird and redundant overlap between SXFI and SBX, the menu isn't really intuitive, and you need to use the separate SXFI app to calibrate SXFI. And the SXFI app also kind of sucks.
> 
> Hopefully once you get it dialed in you like it, is this your first SXFI experience? If SXFI wasn't so good (in my humble opinion) I definitely would not suffer Creative's crappy software and weird device design choices.


I think he used SXFi before


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> Yeah GC7 software is maddening. There is a weird and redundant overlap between SXFI and SBX, the menu isn't really intuitive, and you need to use the separate SXFI app to calibrate SXFI. And the SXFI app also kind of sucks.
> 
> Hopefully once you get it dialed in you like it, is this your first SXFI experience? If SXFI wasn't so good (in my humble opinion) I definitely would not suffer Creative's crappy software and weird device design choices.


Nah, I reviewed the Creative Air headset, which comes with SXFI. SXFI def blew me away, and is arguably the best VSS.


----------



## Youcan1

Anybody have experience with the little ego+ from Emotiva:
https://emotiva.com/products/little-ego-1

It says it has a UAC1 compatibility mode so I was wondering if it would work on the PS5.


----------



## HieroX

Hey all, I am planning to get a Hifiman Sundara with SB GC7 combo. Anyone having the same combo, and know which headphone profile to use?


----------



## HieroX

https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/people/creative-technology-sim-wong-hoo-14925162

3rd gen SXFi is in the works, and Creative might be cooking up something else too.


----------



## duranxv

HieroX said:


> https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/people/creative-technology-sim-wong-hoo-14925162
> 
> 3rd gen SXFi is in the works, and Creative might be cooking up something else too.



Hopefully they'll let us hook up SXFi via optical to an external DAC


----------



## HieroX

duranxv said:


> Hopefully they'll let us hook up SXFi via optical to an external DAC


I am hoping for SXFi with height channels. =D


----------



## Azzurro

Hey guys

Just a quick one - I am currently using the ModMic USB in conjunction with my Schiit Hel 2 and it's been working fine.

However, there seems to be a strange beeping nose if I touch the mic cable at all.

Was considering trying an alternative for it - something 3.5mm to plug straight into the Hel?

Any suggestions? - I was looking at the Sony ECM-LV1


----------



## mercus121

First of all, I would like to thank all the contributors who have posted in this thread. This has been the guide for me which has helped me a lot.

So currently I'm using K712 Pro/AD700 with X7. Redscape as VSS. K712 is for casual gaming, music and movies. While I use AD700 for competitive sessions of Warzone and TDMs. Funny thing is I bought K712 thinking it could beat AD700 in competitive gaming, but I keep using AD700 for such a requirement, maybe better at imaging accuracy. Everything else, K712 all the way.

I am thinking about upgrading, purely from competitive gaming perspective. I have a budget of $400-450, so HD800 is not something I can afford at the moment. So what should I look to upgrade for even better competitive FPS (Warzone + MP) audio experience?

 Is something like Mobius will be stuff that will be a discernable upgrade? Or should I look into getting something like Beyer Tygr 300?


----------



## Chastity

mercus121 said:


> First of all, I would like to thank all the contributors who have posted in this thread. This has been the guide for me which has helped me a lot.
> 
> So currently I'm using K712 Pro/AD700 with X7. Redscape as VSS. K712 is for casual gaming, music and movies. While I use AD700 for competitive sessions of Warzone and TDMs. Funny thing is I bought K712 thinking it could beat AD700 in competitive gaming, but I keep using AD700 for such a requirement, maybe better at imaging accuracy. Everything else, K712 all the way.
> 
> ...


Maybe some planars, or a set of DT-1990.  The T1 have a bit more width due to the decanted drivers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah you'll have to up your budget to truly get an upgrade, and the AD700 is already very high level, and you'll be doing sudegrading for competitive play and not upgrading.

As far as to what I'd upgrade to as something I love for all purpose, the Drop Focal Elex. No question. That or an Ananda.


----------



## mercus121

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah you'll have to up your budget to truly get an upgrade, and the AD700 is already very high level, and you'll be doing sudegrading for competitive play and not upgrading.
> 
> As far as to what I'd upgrade to as something I love for all purpose, the Drop Focal Elex. No question. That or an Ananda.


Elex will cost me me nearly twice their price thanks to custom charges and intl. shipping.
Ananda, DT-1990 and T1(3rd gen) are locally available. Amongst these 3,which one would you recommend me to get for VSS + competitive gaming?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 4, 2021)

I haven't tried the 1990 or T1 so I can't say. The Ananda is brilliant and an easy recommend from me.

But as you're asking for competitive gaming, and none of these will be better than an AD700.

If you just want a higher refined sound but still fantastic for competitive, maybe consider the Shure 1840.


----------



## mammal

So I just tried something - XBOX optical into dCS Bartók driving Abyss AB-1266 while playing Red Dead Redemption 2. The spacial queues are just wow, so much easier to tell where sounds are coming from. I did not expect such a difference, I had no clue these modern games put so much effort into their audio design, kudos to the developers.


----------



## mercus121 (Jun 4, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I haven't tried the 1990 or T1 so I can't say. The Ananda is brilliant and an easy recommend from me.
> 
> But as you're asking for competitive gaming, and none of these will be better than an AD700.
> 
> If you just want a higher refined sound but still fantastic for competitive, maybe consider the Shure 1840.


Yup, I am only looking for something which can be considered as a true upgrade of AD700 for competitive FPS. I am pretty happy with my K712 for everything other than competitive gaming.
Besides the Shure 1840, are there any other options(within $800) I should also check out as a definite upgrade over AD700 only for competitive stuff?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would say no. You'll have to wait until you have an HD800, 800S, 8XX to have the truest upgrade. And even then you're not going to win more games because of the upgrade. The AD700 already brute forces what you need for competitive gaming.


----------



## duranxv

Has anyone tried using the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or Yggrdrasil in their gaming?  If so, how was it? And was there any issues with latency?


----------



## mercus121

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I would say no. You'll have to wait until you have an HD800, 800S, 8XX to have the truest upgrade. And even then you're not going to win more games because of the upgrade. The AD700 already brute forces what you need for competitive gaming.


Of course, the sound cues are just something that helps us, not something that can substitute other required skills to win. 
So, I'm still using the old AD700. Is the newer 700x model same or better?


----------



## thewind32

Would it be silly to go from a HD 600 to a PC38X?

For a few years now I've been using PC -> GSX 1000 -> Project Ember 2 -> HD 600, for all purposes but mainly gaming and music. Last night, my Ember died and so my HD 600 is currently connected directly to the GSX 1000.

I'm considering the following options:
1) Get an amp (e.g. a Drop O2) and rebuild the chain to properly drive the HD 600 while retaining the VSS.
2) Get a pair of headphones that are easier to drive to pair with the GSX 1000.
3) Not spend a single cent and just live with the current chain. For now with everything at max or close to max volume (Windows, game, foobar etc), it gets loud enough. I suppose this isn't ideal as the GSX 1000 isn't really meant to drive a 300-ohm pair of cans, and who knows perhaps the next game I play may not get loud enough.

Due to having less free time nowadays, my use case have shifted more towards gaming than music (but ideally I would still prefer something good for music as well). I don't play competitive/multiplayer games, so I don't need insane tryhard soundwhore cans, I want to be immersed and pick up details. I've been considering the PC38X for option 2, given that it has a lower impedance, supposedly works very well with VSS, and hopefully sounds similar to HD 600 but warmer (I know I know they can't be compared but at least I won't be going straight to a V-shaped tuning). I don't _need_ the mic but it would be helpful to have.

Would like some opinion on this, thanks. Also, how is the volume for the PC38X with GSX 1000 if anyone has this pairing? Any other headphone suggestions?

In case anyone suggests this, no I most likely will not switch between the PC38X and HD 600 when going between gaming and music. Not really keen on keeping two headphones on my desk, and due to my cable management it's not the most convenient to swap things out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get an amp. Be a shame to give up something as good as the 600.


----------



## thewind32

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just get an amp. Be a shame to give up something as good as the 600.



Yea, that's what the rational side of my mind tells me too. Just curious how cans with better soundstage would sound like for gaming as I've never really tried them before, especially since the HD 600 has a pretty narrow soundstage. Or would the difference actually be small once I turn on VSS?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

VSS does so much to enhance soundstage, I think you're fine with the 600. Going to the PC38X is not going to become transformative experience.


----------



## Trancefreak

Looks like im in the market of a €3-500 headset again, since my Mobius broke.
Recommendations for mostly immersive single-player gaming headphones?

I *was*planning a DT1990, but I feel like I'm spoiled by planars and I have no experience with any other brand.
I had the DT770-990 range and still have the MMX300, but the round cups starts to pinch my upper and lower ear a little.
I'm very fond of their build quality however. ( yes, I didn't mind the V shape all that much )

Can I find these things in planar format?
- Buildquality like a Beyer, with parts available
- Replaceable cushions/pads
- Neutral, open, decent soundstage/image.

Thanks.

Ps. I've gotten a G6 for that MMX300, but boy the settings are a bit of a hassle. Firmsware, drivers, creative software...*LeSigh* I should've gone HEL2...
Sounds good tho.


----------



## Soundmancan

thewind32 said:


> Would it be silly to go from a HD 600 to a PC38X?
> 
> For a few years now I've been using PC -> GSX 1000 -> Project Ember 2 -> HD 600, for all purposes but mainly gaming and music. Last night, my Ember died and so my HD 600 is currently connected directly to the GSX 1000.
> 
> ...


Hi, it so happens that I have the Drop PC38x, HD600, GSX 1000 so I was able to do a direct comparison for you. Obviously, it goes without saying that this is just my opinion and you have to do whats best for your use case. I have been a gamer for a long time, and at one point, got sucked into the "surround sound" black hole trying to find the best implementation. So I do have the XFI, G6, software solutions etc... the GSX 1000 is definitely my favorite and IMHO the best. I like to be immersed in my games and that does it without sounding like ass. The problem with it though is the amp section isnt all that powerful so I had to use my magni 3 to double amp it to get it loud enough to run my HD600 HD6xx etc which I really didn't like to do. I plugged the HD600 into the GSX and at full volume you can hear it but you definitely aren't driving them enough and aren't getting the true benefit of the headphone. I then plugged it into my Schiit Hel 2 and it was a night and day difference. It drove them with Aplomb. I know you want the VSS so getting rid of the GSX 1000 is not an option and I wouldn't recommend double amping so this leads me to the PC38x. Terrific headphone! And is a great match for the GSX1000, after all the GSX1000 was designed for gaming headphones not audiophile ones. Where full volume was not enough for the HD600, the PC38x was plenty loud at 75% and sounds terrific with the VSS. Not only that but the headphone has been praised not only for it's gaming prowess but also for its music playback abilities. The GSX1000 has it's 24/96 mode that would go well with the PC38x. Anyhow, if there is any other info I can supply for you let me know.


----------



## thewind32

Soundmancan said:


> Hi, it so happens that I have the Drop PC38x, HD600, GSX 1000 so I was able to do a direct comparison for you. Obviously, it goes without saying that this is just my opinion and you have to do whats best for your use case. I have been a gamer for a long time, and at one point, got sucked into the "surround sound" black hole trying to find the best implementation. So I do have the XFI, G6, software solutions etc... the GSX 1000 is definitely my favorite and IMHO the best. I like to be immersed in my games and that does it without sounding like ass. The problem with it though is the amp section isnt all that powerful so I had to use my magni 3 to double amp it to get it loud enough to run my HD600 HD6xx etc which I really didn't like to do. I plugged the HD600 into the GSX and at full volume you can hear it but you definitely aren't driving them enough and aren't getting the true benefit of the headphone. I then plugged it into my Schiit Hel 2 and it was a night and day difference. It drove them with Aplomb. I know you want the VSS so getting rid of the GSX 1000 is not an option and I wouldn't recommend double amping so this leads me to the PC38x. Terrific headphone! And is a great match for the GSX1000, after all the GSX1000 was designed for gaming headphones not audiophile ones. Where full volume was not enough for the HD600, the PC38x was plenty loud at 75% and sounds terrific with the VSS. Not only that but the headphone has been praised not only for it's gaming prowess but also for its music playback abilities. The GSX1000 has it's 24/96 mode that would go well with the PC38x. Anyhow, if there is any other info I can supply for you let me know.



Wow, thanks for your reply! Similarly, I used my Ember to double amp my HD 600, and while it does get loud enough without it now, I can tell they are not being driven properly. I know double amping is frowned upon but were there noticeable flaws that you noticed when you did so with the GSX 1000 & Magni 3 & HD 600?

I'm sure the Hel 2 would make a big difference, especially given that the GSX's dac and amp aren't anything spectacular. What is your current setup for gaming? Is it the GSX 1000 + PC38X? Or have you stopped VSS entirely?

Also, how would you compare the sound quality of the PC38X to the HD 600? Of course I'm not expecting the PC38X to be close, but I'm assuming I would like the PC38X sound if I love the HD 600?

Sigh, I was considering just getting a Magni Heresy (similar colour scheme with the GSX yay), go back to double-amping and call it a day, and now you're tempting me with the PC38X haha.


----------



## Soundmancan (Jun 5, 2021)

thewind32 said:


> Wow, thanks for your reply! Similarly, I used my Ember to double amp my HD 600, and while it does get loud enough without it now, I can tell they are not being driven properly. I know double amping is frowned upon but were there noticeable flaws that you noticed when you did so with the GSX 1000 & Magni 3 & HD 600?
> 
> I'm sure the Hel 2 would make a big difference, especially given that the GSX's dac and amp aren't anything spectacular. What is your current setup for gaming? Is it the GSX 1000 + PC38X? Or have you stopped VSS entirely?
> 
> ...


Hey, as far as double amping goes, you can do whatever you want. That's your call. If you want to continue using the HD600's for gaming, that's your call too. You do whatever is good for YOUR situation. I am an audio guy so I have a few different toys laying around and I have a choice. But for those that do not, make the best choice for you. I love the HD600's, even more so than the HD650's/HD6XX's. But I also know this is a headphone that has been around a long time and advances have been made since it came out. For example it has been said that their imaging and layering isn't the greatest, atleast compared to newer headphones. The PC38x is a new headphone with much newer drivers and has a nice meaty sound for explosions and such. Probably superior in imaging as well. These have been compared to the new sennheiser 560, which is supposed to be really good, and from my understanding, preferred over the 560. I didn't notice any flaws or anything while double amping, and not sure of any downsides either but it may be worth looking up to see if there are any before you make your decision. I just did it because I didn't have any other options at the time. The hardware inside the GSX1000 may not be of the highest quality, but it sure does things others don't and it does it well. I do not use it much as I have better quality stuff and I do not use surround much either as I prefer stereo. But taking it out for this commentary has renewed my interest and will prompt me to take it out more and use it on older games which I much prefer over most of this new crap they come out with every 6 months. I just got the Hel2 (Bstock in case anyone is wondering) so I am just starting to flesh it out. I wanted something powerful enough to run any headphone I have as well as be compatible with my gaming headphones for those relatively few times I may use the microphone portion for in game communications. Otherwise, I use my Jotunheim 2/Bifrost 2/Gungnir Multibit (I am big on music).


----------



## HieroX

I just placed an order for the Hifiman Sundara for USD299. There was a sale going on.
Gonna pair it with the GC7 and SXFi. Heard from other SXFi users that the HE4XX profile goes well with it.
Crossing my fingers!


----------



## DenverW

duranxv said:


> Has anyone tried using the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or Yggrdrasil in their gaming?  If so, how was it? And was there any issues with latency?


I have a gumby A1.  As far as issues such as latency I haven't noticed it to be any different from any other dac I've tried.  For sound, I quite enjoy it and its been my go to dac for quite a while, although that might be changing soon as I'm trying out a teac UD-505.


----------



## motorwayne

PC38X was an upgrade for gaming over the HD660S IMHO, so going with the GSX1000 + PC38X as mentioned above by @Soundmancan is a great idea.


----------



## mindbomb

thewind32 said:


> I'm considering the following options:
> 1) Get an amp (e.g. a Drop O2) and rebuild the chain to properly drive the HD 600 while retaining the VSS.
> 2) Get a pair of headphones that are easier to drive to pair with the GSX 1000.
> 3) Not spend a single cent and just live with the current chain. For now with everything at max or close to max volume (Windows, game, foobar etc), it gets loud enough. I suppose this isn't ideal as the GSX 1000 isn't really meant to drive a 300-ohm pair of cans, and who knows perhaps the next game I play may not get loud enough.



Another possible option is to try to optimize the noise level in your environment. Turn off the AC when you are using headphones, have quiet computer fans, get some noise dampening stuff for the walls etc.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

That sounds like way too much just to accommodate the headphones. You're uprooting the way you live just to get better/louder sound. Eh...


----------



## thewind32 (Jun 7, 2021)

mindbomb said:


> Another possible option is to try to optimize the noise level in your environment. Turn off the AC when you are using headphones, have quiet computer fans, get some noise dampening stuff for the walls etc.



I think you misunderstand, noise isn't an issue. I rarely use AC, just regular fan (funny enough the fan is actually noisier than the AC unit), and my PC is inaudible unless I put my head next to it. The volume I'm getting now is enough, but there's no more headroom if required. And after a couple days listening to the HD 600 with just the GSX 1000, it sounds... thin? Granted, it could just be that I'm used to how my setup sounded previously, especially given the tube amp coloration, but I believe the GSX 1000 just isn't doing the HD 600 justice in terms of driving it.

When my HD 600 finally croaks, I'll look at the options again. For now I'll get an amp just as MLE suggested, and continue using my HD 600 that I can't bear to part ways with haha.


----------



## krEJZi

I'm wondering if _Hi_-_Res_ modes on headsets (Mobius in this case), gives better sounds for hearing footsteps in FPS games? And how is the directional sounds affected? Would it be easier or harder to determine where the footsteps and other sounds are coming from compared to Normal two channel mode?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

hi res mode is mainly to allow for 24bit audio to be played back IIRC. Otherwise, I don't think it'll be different from normal 2ch mode with surround turned off. I did use Hi-Res mode, as an easy way to swap between 2ch stereo/music use, and gaming modes that kept 7.1 on.


----------



## thewind32

krEJZi said:


> I'm wondering if _Hi_-_Res_ modes on headsets (Mobius in this case), gives better sounds for hearing footsteps in FPS games? And how is the directional sounds affected? Would it be easier or harder to determine where the footsteps and other sounds are coming from compared to Normal two channel mode?



Quoting Audeze's site, "Hi-Res, which allows Mobius to process sampling frequencies of 24bit/96kHz. This mode disables all surround-sound, 3D audio and head-tracking, and turns Mobius into a High Resolution Audio Machine for two channel playback of Hi-Res files."

This simply increases the bitrate and sampling frequency. Whether increasing those 2 will improve audio quality such that humans can hear is up for debate. I'm not the correct person to explain bitrate and sampling frequency, googling them will be more helpful. As for your question regarding footsteps, no, Hi-Res mode will not help. If you really want to, you could apply EQ to the appropriate frequencies to raise footsteps / lower gunshots etc. The quote above answers your second question. Just stick with its surround mode for directional sounds.


----------



## simtmb (Jun 7, 2021)

Sorry all just a random question. Is it normal for Creative DACs to have low mic volume across the board? I have a G6 and an X3. No matter which headphone I use (currently MMX300 mk2), mic volume is so low that I always have to boost it, which unfortunately brings about a buzzing noise. +30db with a G6 and MMX300 at the moment, it is much louder by default with my onboard audio and it's always been bugging me, making me think something is wrong


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

simtmb said:


> Sorry all just a random question. Is it normal for Creative DACs to have low mic volume across the board? I have a G6 and an X3. No matter which headphone I use (currently MMX300 mk2), mic volume is so low that I always have to boost it, which unfortunately brings about a buzzing noise. +30db with a G6 and MMX300 at the moment, it is much louder by default with my onboard audio and it's always been bugging me, making me think something is wrong


Make sure the software controls have the volume raised. You need to adjust on PC, and also, I dunno if you know, but if you press in the G6 volume knob, and wait for the ring to turn red, thats how you raise the mic volume directly from the device. It's either that or incoming chat volume. I'm not certain, I gave my G6 to one of my best friends.


----------



## duranxv

DenverW said:


> I have a gumby A1.  As far as issues such as latency I haven't noticed it to be any different from any other dac I've tried.  For sound, I quite enjoy it and its been my go to dac for quite a while, although that might be changing soon as I'm trying out a teac UD-505.



Nice!  What made you jump to the Teac UD-505?


----------



## DenverW

I've had the gumby for quite a while and hadn't tried some alternatives.  A friend had recommended the teak to me after he bought my mainline amp; saying it was a great pairing.  Thought I'd give it a try.  I have a crackatwoa at the moment, so the teaks headphone output also is an easy way to use lower impedance headphones if I need to as well.  Just got the Teac in tonight, so I haven't had time to do a head to head yet.


----------



## simtmb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Make sure the software controls have the volume raised. You need to adjust on PC, and also, I dunno if you know, but if you press in the G6 volume knob, and wait for the ring to turn red, thats how you raise the mic volume directly from the device. It's either that or incoming chat volume. I'm not certain, I gave my G6 to one of my best friends.


I appreciate the quick reply  Didn't know that, thank you! I'll mess around with it for a bit, if I can't figure it out I'll see if I can dig up another device to test it on and compare.


----------



## rickyday

Mad Lust Envy said:


> edit: I just now realized that most of my recent reviews have attachment links that NO ONE can see, and so all of my images have been there for MY eyes only. It's quite upsetting. Enough for me to give up. This is so disheartening. Now I'll have to spend a day redoing ALL the image attachments for so many reviews. Now I wonder how dry and boring my reviews must've looked without images for you guys...
> 
> Anyways, this is the new PC38X review, now with image links that ACTUALLY work.
> 
> ...



I need help i want to get the pc38x but   i have the amp on my right side of the desk, and the headphones come with a mic as well, and my pc desktop is on far left side of my desk. the cord audio and mic plug arent seperate and they dont split far enough.

how would i make it work so i can get these headphones ?

basically i just would not use my amp ?


----------



## Chastity

rickyday said:


> I need help i want to get the pc38x but   i have the amp on my right side of the desk, and the headphones come with a mic as well, and my pc desktop is on far left side of my desk. the cord audio and mic plug arent seperate and they dont split far enough.
> 
> how would i make it work so i can get these headphones ?
> 
> basically i just would not use my amp ?


They make extension cables, y'know.


----------



## thewind32

rickyday said:


> I need help i want to get the pc38x but   i have the amp on my right side of the desk, and the headphones come with a mic as well, and my pc desktop is on far left side of my desk. the cord audio and mic plug arent seperate and they dont split far enough.
> 
> how would i make it work so i can get these headphones ?
> 
> basically i just would not use my amp ?



You should use your amp with it. Does your PC have separate ports for audio and microphone (check the rear of the PC too)? If so, then what you need is just one 3.5mm TRS (not TRRS) male to female extension cable. Connect either one of the PC38X plugs to the amp or your PC mic input, and use the extension with the other.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

rickyday said:


> I need help i want to get the pc38x but   i have the amp on my right side of the desk, and the headphones come with a mic as well, and my pc desktop is on far left side of my desk. the cord audio and mic plug arent seperate and they dont split far enough.
> 
> how would i make it work so i can get these headphones ?
> 
> basically i just would not use my amp ?


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I0SI1SG/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C9U3XI4/

There. Connect these two things to the headphone plug, and to your amp. That's it.

I don't like buying extension cables, because buying a 3.5mm aux cable and a barrel allows more versatility for that aux cable in case you need it for something else, while buying an extension cable you can only use it as an extension cable.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Received my Schiit Fulla 4 earlier this week and have been deciding whether to run that on the PS5 or not and move my Creative G6 to my Laptop/Office Room.  Really like the Fulla - seems to pair with the Sennheiser PC373D I have really well.  I also prefer the sound of the mic input on the Fulla - much 'fuller' sounding than the G6 from my tests.  Only one slight issue is the mic level on PS5.  I have to keep this set to the absolute minimum on the PS5 Mic Adjust UI and its still verging on the high level, introducing a little background hum into the mix.  On the G6, the mic doesn't sound as good but the level can be adjusted and the background noise is virtually silent.  

Question is, is there anything I can do with about the Fulla mic level or should I have bought the Hel 2 with the adjustment control?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 10, 2021)

The Fulla auto adjusts, so not much you can do on the ps5. On PC you can. Also, for the G6 I would make sure to disable all the mic enhanced stuff so it doesn't sound like crap.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Fulla auto adjusts, so not much you can do on the ps5. On PC you can.


Ah ok, thanks - will see how it sounds to my squad mates tonight then - much prefer the mic sound overall so provided the background noise is not obvious to them I'll stick with it on the PS5 (but probably still buy a Hel 2 as well   )


----------



## Playstation

put aside everything else and focus only on comfort. budget around $400. 

the comfort i like would be in this order

fidelio's
beyer's
senn's

orbit's/mobius. probably less comfortable then senn's. based off of trying the orbit's
fostex pads look very shallow. would prefer avoiding mods

based on looks alone. monolith and hifiman look like they would be on par with beyer's


----------



## energie

Hello, looking at some closed headphone mostly for warzone.
I can’t decide between 
Audio Technica ATH-A990z and ath g1 (based on ath 700).​Any help?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Looks like the Fulla 4 will be going back - worked well on Warzone (3d Audio off) in the week, but today and yesterday on Ratchet & Clank (3d audio on) its frequently going into a disconnecting/reconnecting loop (I've tried it with and without mains power also with no joy) so have had to go back to the G6 again. It also seems fussy on how it wants to work from my laptop also.  

Not sure if anyone else has experienced this or if it can be fixed - a shame as I really like the size/sound of the device.


----------



## Highlaw

I know it's kind of unrelated (I have my future headphone setup figured out, SoundBlaster X7 on a side table + Sundara) but I'm wondering about my speaker setup. 

Due to my small room I'm getting a 120cm wide desk that isn't that deep either, and I have a 48" OLED as my main PC/consoles monitor on its own stand some distance away, so getting standard desk clamp mounts for studio monitors at the right distance/placement (especially depth) may not be possible, as they probably need to be extended past my desk space. I'd also like to keep the ground uncluttered so I want to avoid getting 2 separate tall stands for the studio monitors. 

I was thinking of using desk clamp arms with 90degree rotation at the end, but for the love of me I couldn't find a single bespoke product online for this situation, only standard speaker tall mounts, wall mounts or fixed desk clamps, and everything with an adaptable arm is only targeted at monitors, laptops and keyboards (hard to get the right size plate to place the speakers on, but I ended up finding the perfect VESA adapter that can double as a stand). Now I'm wondering if the lack of speaker-targeted desk adjustable arms is due to low demand or if it's simply a terrible idea that wouldn't work for some reason (too much vibration?). I sketched up an approximation of what the setup would look like. 
Is there any fundamental issue I'm missing here? Each arm can withstand 10kg so the Adam T5V's should hold up well.


----------



## Chastity

Playstation said:


> put aside everything else and focus only on comfort. budget around $400.
> 
> the comfort i like would be in this order
> 
> ...


My Monolith M1070 are based on Audeze LCD design, so big fat angled pads.  very comfy.


----------



## energie

I just received the audio technica ag1, damn they are terrible 😅


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Focal Elex review should be coming very soon. I don't wanna say today since I have some things to do, but the writing is 100% done. Just gotta take pictures, and then post. Just won't be today.

Next is the Fulla 4 which will happen much faster.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Focal Elex review should be coming very soon. I don't wanna say today since I have some things to do, but the writing is 100% done. Just gotta take pictures, and then post. Just won't be today.
> 
> Next is the Fulla 4 which will happen much faster.



Looking forward to the Fulla 4 review - enjoyed mine, (for the day it worked properly  ) - since then, it refuses to work via anUSB hubs (powered or not) I have and the PS5 won't recognise it at all from any of its 4 USB ports (again whether I provide mains power to the Fulla or not). Seems I have a defective unit - which is a bit of a pain being in the UK!


----------



## FightCat

Hello,

I must say I have gone through the awesome guide that stands the test of time for years now and since my birthday is around the corner in a week, I am allowed by my wife to suggest gifts :d

This must have been asked a million times over but I am an avid Call of Duty Warzone gamer who is ultimately frustrated with not being able to pinpoint footsteps in y-axis as well.

1) Should wireless options definitely be avoided?

2) Her budget would be between 200 - 300 USD.

3) I like listening to music I'd very much appreciate if the suggestion could be set of cans for music as well

Thanks in advance.


----------



## energie

Mate warzone has totally crap audio and can render y axis audio, I’m going to give up.


----------



## FightCat

energie said:


> Mate warzone has totally crap audio and can render y axis audio, I’m going to give up.



Watching Swagg's, Nickmerc's or Huskerrs' streams for some time now and they pick sounds like hounds?


----------



## energie

It’s just experience and skill. They Are able to recognise y axis because they perfectly knows every building


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 14, 2021)

----------
----------

*Massdrop X Focal Elex*



$700
Where To Buy: *Drop.com*

_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Drop for sending the Focal Elex out to me for the impressions/review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Drop or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything. They only asked for my honest impressions. That's it.

In terms of the Focal Elex, this was purely a personal request from me to Drop. I had never heard a Focal headphone, and figured if I was ever going to get an opportunity, the Elex would be a great point of entry. Boy, what an entry it is._



*Intro*​
In comes a very late look at the Focal Elex, by Drop (known as Massdrop when this released). While I have never ended up disappointed by a Drop variant of any headphone I've reviewed (though not being particularly in love with the Sennheiser 8XX), I still didn't know what was to come with the Focal Elex. I did absolutely no homework on Focal headphones beforehand. All I know is that they look great, and seem very well liked by the higher end headphone audio enthusiast crowd. I know nothing of their sound, their tendencies, nothing. But I knew they were popular. I've heard plenty of headphones throughout the years, and I figured before I stopped reviewing, I needed to get my hands on at least one Focal.

Nothing could prepare me for the absolute pleasure that is the Elex. If I had just one sentence to describe my feelings on the Elex, is that the Elex is from memory the best headphone I have ever heard. Now, I don't have the high end experience that others have, but as far as everything I have used and reviewed, the Elex is clearly, and unquestionably the best headphone overall, out of everything I have heard. The closest things I could say would put up a fight are the Hifiman Ananda, and the DCA Ether C that I reviewed so long ago.

Now, when I say best, I don't mean my absolute favorite. I do have my preferences for things that are warmer, and more colored. For instance, I still love and would place the original Audeze LCD-2 Rev. 2 as well as the 2012 and on Denon D7000 as my absolute faves. I'd probably argue with myself and spend my own money in that direction based on my own preferences. However, if I was going to recommend an accurate sounding headphone with exceptional clarity, voicing, and overall performance, the Elex sits at the top. I can only imagine what Focal's higher end headphones sound like, but I'll say the Elex has made me an absolute fan.

I've spoiled enough, so let's get into the why.



*What's In the Box*​
While I'm quite happy getting headphones packaged in a plain box with the bare essentials, if you're going to go out of your way to have some form of higher level unboxing experience, THIS is a great way to go.



A nice, big black box opens up to reveal some wonderful top padding (which I questions just how useful it is, though is still quite nice), the headphone sitting in a foam insert, with the center cut out for literature, and a flap on the lower section which reveals where the cables are hidden.

All in all, the presentation is wonderful, and not overly indulgent. Just luxurious enough that you know these are world class headphones, without excessive waste on packaging.

Included are:



Headphones - The Elex.

Cables - The two sets of 6ft detachable cables.  One terminating in a 1/4" plug, and one in 4-pin XLR, and straps for the cables. I would've preferred the cable that terminates into 1/4" would've instead terminated into 3.5mm with a 1/4" adapter instead. I don't think there's any reason to force a cable to terminate into 1/4". With a 3.5mm plug you can just use a snap on or screw on adapter, whereas with a 1/4" plug you have to get a 3.5mm adapter which you can get a questionable barrel that puts too much strain on your 3.5mm inputs, or you have to spend more money on a 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter. The Elex isn't particularly hard to drive either, so removing the ability to use a 3.5mm source without finding an adapter is just limiting its versatility for no real reason, in my opinion.

Literature - Booklets, Manuals, and Focal related information manuals.



*Build and Comfort*​
It has been quite a long time since I've felt a headphone that feels both tanky, and luxurious.  Next to the Elex, everything I've reviewed in the past so many years come off as plastic toys. It's an absolute UNIT of a headphone. It just feels...substantial. Like, you know you're getting a premium headphone for the money, just based on looks, weight, and feel. It exudes luxury.


*Headband:

*

The Elex's headband is what I consider to be the most 'standard' looking part of the headphone. It just looks like a headband you'd find on a million other headphones. In fact, while I don't know this for sure, the headband and yokes look suspiciously (and exactly) like the ones used on Monoprice's M1070. That's not to say that it's bad. Far from it. It's a chunky boy with a lot of material. So it's definitely not cheap feeling or looking. Mainly covered in what I assume to be faux leather, the headband is quite large, thick, and wide. The bottom side is covered in perforated microfiber which is a welcome change and beneficial for both comfort and aesthetics. It looks nice, and elegant.

The yokes that connect to the cups are made of a black aluminum , and also scream quality and durability. Not unique in design, but they'll definitely stand the test of time. The yokes allow for very, very minimal horizontal adjustment, so some awkwardly shaped headphones may need to take note. The cups do however swivel up and down with plenty of freedom, in my opinion.

In terms of size adjustment, it allows for a large head like mine to fit comfortably, and will likely allow for most head sizes to fit without issues. I like to overextend the length for a more loose fit, in which the Elex allows maybe one or two clicks on each side over my preferred size extension.

In terms of comfort, the headband may be the least desirable trait on the Elex, but that's a very minor quibble with the Elex's comfort. The headband isn't as comfortable as some of the better headphones out there in this regard, but ultimately falls in the range of still being comfortable overall. Whereas I'd want amazing or great comfort, the Elex's headband is still in the range of being good in comfort levels. So not really a downside. Not the best, but far from a problem.


*Cups:

*

The cups are easily the most recognizable aspect of the Focal Elex design, and unlike the headband and yoke, are entirely unique to Focal. The Elex is simply one of the best looking full sized headphones I've ever seen, and the cups are 90% of the reason why. From the classy, black, outer grill, to the offset ring in front of the driver, to the opening that surrounds the driver enclosure on the inside and allows air to pass freely, this is one beautifully crafted cup design. As vented as the Elex is, it's no surprised that this is one completely open looking and sounding headphone.

The inner side of the cups houses the 40mm driver which is quite exposed but protected by a strong honeycomb-styled grill cover and a very fine mesh. It's quite beautiful, which falls along the line of everything else on the Elex.



On the bottom of the cups are dual 3.5mm mono inputs for the cables. The inputs are quite recessed, so you may need to think about the size of any aftermarket cable plugs.


*Ear Pads:

*

Pads make or break a headphone for me. To say that the Elex's perforated microfiber memory foam pads are arguably the best pads I've ever felt on a headphone is an understatement. I've felt plenty of very comfortable ear pads. However, these pads...man, if it weren't for the fact that ear pads can make or ruin the sound of headphones, I'd want to put these pads on everything. They're very plush, retain their shape, and barely compress when worn. This may actually be the key the Elex's sound, as I note that physically compressing the pads down when worn will DRASTICALLY alter the sound of the Elex, so much that it may as well be various different headphones based on pad compression and driver distance alone. As such, I do believe IF these pads DO wear out and compress due to long term use, the Elex will absolutely sound like a completely different headphone. One that is warmer, with more bass presence, and not as pristine sounding.

I can see pad swapping the Elex being an easy way to tune the sound to your liking, though I don't know why anyone would want to swap from the default pads. They're amazing.

In case you missed the hint on ear pad comfort, I'd rate the Elex's ear pads at about a 9.9 out of 10.


They feel like heaven on the skin
The inner cup ventilation is fantastic for long term wearing sessions and keeps ears from getting too hot
While the pads aren't so plush that they compress like clouds, the fact they retain their shape means less surface area contacting the skin

They're simply incredible. I'd argue that something is wrong with you if thinking otherwise. Inconceivable. You can't change my mind.


*Cables:

*

The Elex comes with two detachable 6ft cables. One is terminated in a standard 1/4" adapter, and the other comes with a balanced 4 pin XLR Neutrik connector. They certainly look and feel premium. Wrapped in dark grey and black cloth, they're amongst the nicest looking stock cables you can get on a headphone.

I do have a mild complaint about the cables, and it's that they're quite heavy, and not very malleable. These are more cords rather than headphone cables. Quite thick, and not easy to wrap around or control. There's nothing wrong with them otherwise, but I'd personally like something a little softer and easier to manage. An aftermarket cable would likely be the first thing I look for if I was in the market for the Elex.




*Weight:*

At about 450g, the Elex isn't the most lightweight of headphones, and you'll certainly feel it on the hand and when worn. That being said, while it's certainly not a feather, I've never found the weight to be cumbersome on the neck, ears, or head. The headband isn't the best at distributing weight, and may have a little bit of downforce felt from it, but overall, I just can't knock off too many points off due to these minor nitpicks.

I feel that the weight is a testament to the high quality of the materials used, more than an issue of it being heavy for no reason.


*Final Build and Comfort Impressions:*

There's nothing I can truly find problematic with the Elex's build. It looks and feels premium from head to toe. This is one of the best headphones I've ever seen in both aesthetics and build. As far as comfort goes, you have arguably some of the best ear pads to ever grace a headphone, mixed with a decent, albeit not necessarily great headband. I'd say it averages out to very good in terms of comfort. The Elex is a headpone I can wear absolutely all day without question. With minor periods of adjusting the Elex on top of my head, there's little else to keep it from being incredibly comfortable for extremely long periods of use.


*Noise Control*​
The Elex is one of the most open headphones I've used in a very long time, which means that you need to expect a lot of noise leakage in and out. While not as leak heavy as a planarmagnetic like the Ananda (which can double as a portable speaker in terms of noise output), the Elex will need to be played at a moderate to lower volume if you don't want to disturb others, particularly late at night. You'll definitely want a closed door or two between you and whomever you're not trying to disturb. Forget same room listening without people hearing everything you're listening to.

As far as isolation from external noises, this too is about as poor as it gets. The cups are vented between the pads and the drivers, so you're getting all sorts of external influence finding their way into the cups.

As long as you set your expectations accordingly, they're not the worst at noise control, but definitely on the poor side, even amongst other open-backed headphones.



*Sound*​
Be warned that the next few sections will sound like utter gushing. It's because it is. I'm going to gush, and you're going to listen to why.

With zero Focal experience, I came in letting leaves fall as they may. Having done next to no digging about what Focal is about and what type of sound they go for, I just wanted something that I wouldn't be disappointed with. If they were going to go any route, let them be, at the very least, adept at it, so that I could at least have a positive review for one of their headphones. I would've been happy with a decent performing headphone. I didn't expect miracles, and I didn't expect something that I'd consider 'The Best' I've ever heard.

To say that the Focal Elex blew me away is an understatement. Boy, what a ride the Elex has taken me on. I hadn't prepared for this. I mean, Drop is (for the vast majority of the time), always prepared to send me the good stuff, which I'm more than happy to give the time of day. If it's going to be disappointing, I rather not waste my time or theirs. So, I find it odd Drop didn't think to approach me with the Elex back during their release window. I mean, why? The Elex is SUBLIME. Porque? Ok, vamos a ver.


*Bass:*

Those who know me, know, while I don't need basshead levels of bass, I do like a solid foundation for the rest of the sound to stand on. The bottom end needs representation with some vibrancy mixed in with some real gravitas. This may be the most surprising aspect of the Focal Elex's sound. Mainly that when you listen to the Elex's sound as a whole, you would think that it'd have some reservations down low, so as not to outshine the midrange, treble, or any other aspect if its deliciously blended sound.

But the Elex has this...freedom to its bass that allows it to perfectly encapsulate the rawness that more polite, even handed, mature sounding headphones lack. Like, you would think that a highly detailed, neutral, linear sounding headphone would exercise some caution and maintain maybe a bit too much control in bass production. Well, the Elex is more like "Hey, I can be all those things, but I also like to party!" The Elex has an almost adolescent presence in the bass without it ever being what anyone would call heavy handed on the bass. It's still wonderfully balanced, and uncolored. But it rumbles, and it kicks as much as anyone would need it to. This may be one of the best, non-bass focused headphones I've ever heard in terms of dynamics in the lower regions. It's super fun, and still oh-so-very proper and high quality.

I wouldn't deem the Elex bassy by general standards. It's right on the line of perfectly balanced. However, it's the way the bass hits, the way it rumbles, the way it lingers juuuust long enough to make it stand out next to more, "professional" sounding headphones. Professional, boring, lackadaisical. Potayto, potahto. Give me the way Elex portrays bass over any overly refined bass any day of the week. There is such a thing as being too perfect. It's imperfections that give things character, and the Elex oozes character.

Frequency tests done, It goes as low as I can hear at sub-20hz, with good, but never overly emphatic bass. The texture and clarity down low is exceptional to my ears, with a great sense of speed and decay as well. I'm telling you, I'm enamored by the way the Elex showcases it's lowest regions. There's no big bloom or veil. It's not frail or thin, boomy or sluggish. It's just outright tasteful and joyful from bottom to top.

9/10 would let it hit again.


*Midrange to Treble: *

Continuing from the excellent balance and neutral forwardness of the sound, is the midrange. The Elex has an obvious focused staging in its midrange that is neither in upfront and intimate, nor spaced out and distant. It feels properly centralized with no emphasis or pushed away presence. Something like a 6XX clearly puts the vocals a bit closer to your listening vicinity as if you're on stage as part of the act, while the Elex is more about placing you in the front or second row being part of the immediate audience. just excellent neutrality, linear balance, and details that never stray far from being tonally accurate.

Moving up to the upper ranges, you may be inclined to call the Elex neutral leaning slightly bright, due to the high clarity and presence up top. The upper mid to treble ranges have plenty of sparkle and zest, though I wouldn't ever call the Elex a hot, sibilant headphone. It isn't.

Ignoring published graphs and doing personal frequency tests gave me the Elex's strongest peak at 5khz, with a drop off at 6khz and 8.5khz being the two lowest points to my ears, neither being too low as to be muffled or lacking in presence. The Elex is one of very few headphones I've heard to extend well past 10khz, with my ears picking up sound even at 16khz. Lots of activity in the upper ranges, that I normally would not hear on other headphones.

There's just very little missing from the midrange and treble. It's utterly brilliant.


*Soundstage*​
If there was one aspect that didn't blow me away about the Elex's sound, it's that the soundstage isn't particularly amazing. By design, with how open it is, from being open-backed, having ventilation between the cups and ears pads, and its neutral oriented sound, I guess I just expected something more...airy? Air, spaciousness, weightlessness, are things I just can't say are part of the Elex's repertoire. Now, I don't mean it's bad in any of these regards. More that, it's not particular strengths on the Elex. The soundstage seems moderately sized, and allows for good imaging, but nothing incredible.

Personally, and as usual, I don't mind this, as I don't give soundstaging too much priority, especially when I can mitigate deficiencies with virtual surround processors in terms of movie and video game uses. I don't need my music or other media outside of games and movies to have a large stage.

Again, it's not bad. I'd consider the Elex and average performer in this regard.


*Sound Signature and Clarity*​
_(Note - I have two areas of sound that I use the term "neutral" for. Neutral forwardness or lack off, as in whether sounds are intimate or spaced back. A sort of distance measurement relative to your listening position. Neutral again meaning not too forward, not too spaced back. In terms of sound signature, I mean it as something else, meaning tonality our how sounds...sound, if that makes sense. Not being dark, warm, cold, or bright._

The Elex sounds close to what I perceive has neutral in tonality/coloration. A neutral tonality for me means that sounds aren't dark or warm, nor are they bright, cold, or analytical. Neutral means right where it needs to be. Correct. Somewhat lifelike in tone. If anything, the upper range can be just north of neutral and a little brighter than perfectly neutral, but not by much, and only in some ranges.

Clarity is absolutely top notch. The Elex isn't boringly analytical or lacking in musicality, but it does exhibit a high degree of clarity, so much as to do well in sub-surface, miniscule detail retrieval. The Elex is among the best I've heard at the minor nitpicking needed for analysis of sound without ruining the enjoyment factor. It's better than great. It won't best the absolute top players like say an HD800, but I'd take the minor concessions made for something I'd want to listen to for all purpose rather than just for one thing here or there.

Simple answers? Sound signature is neutral to slightly bright. Clarity is about 8 out 10 ten. Great clarity.


*Amplification*​
The Elex isn't particularly hard to drive, and should work well with most kinds of sources and amplifiers. Worry less about how much power being sent, and the tonal balance of the gear you may have, as the Elex is quite neutrally colored, and may intake some traits from other aspects of your chain.

As such, I believe the Elex pairs up well with practically anything, and should be a great way to demo colored gear like specialized tube amplifiers.



Personal example, I compared a $600 Schiit Modius/Jotunheim 2 balanced combo, with an entry level, $99 Schiit Fulla 4 tiny amp/dac. I got the same enjoyment and toe tapping factor off both setups. Really, don't worry so much about powering the Elex. It will sound amazing off practically anything. Anyone that tells you otherwise is just spitting hyperbole, and trying to justify their purchases. Yes the Fulla 4 isn't as holographic and dimensional and full as the Jot 2/Modius, but it still sounds like the beauty that is the Elex. If you have ANY dac/amp worth two cents, the Elex will sound fantastic. That's all you need to know.



*Gaming*​
After having just listened to me gush about the Elex's sound, were you truly expecting anything other than glowing impressions out of its gaming performance? If so... why? A good headphone is basically guaranteed to sound good for gaming as well. Well, the Elex is so far beyond just 'good', that you should expect its gaming performance to be every bit as excellent as you should assume it is.

Now, yes, the soundstage isn't enormous and incredible as some others. Yet, if you're a gamer like me that uses virtual surround, you know that the magic of soundstaging for games is mainly associated by whatever virtual surround solution you're using. As long as a headphone isn't overly congested and miniscule in soundstage size, all a headphone does is enhance the dsp of whatever VSS you use.

The Elex being neutrally inclined in coloration, with a modest but decent soundstage will pair up incredibly well with any virtual surround solution. Soundstage size and depth is great, having used Dolby Headphone, Redscape Audio, Sony's Tempest 3D audio, Creative's SBX and SXFI. The Elex sound fantastic through each and every single one of them. Dolby Headphone and SXFI warm up the sound a bit giving the Elex a more immersive experience, while the others are less colored and will work for both competitive and casual gaming.

As for the stricter, more stereo-oriented gamer that scoffs at virtual surround, well, while I think you guys are silly (and dead wrong), but I still would say the Elex has you covered there as well. The linear tonality, pristine clarity, and decent stereo soundstage will allow the Elex to flex its muscles regardless of whatever game you throw at it.

Gaming on the Elex is great, no matter what method of headphone gaming, no matter what game, no matter how long, now matter how serious.



*Personal Recommendations*​

*Media:*

Likely to no one's surprise, I find the Elex to be well suited for any and all forms of media. Its fantastic balance allows the Elex to do well with anything you throw at it. Want to listen to podcasts? The Elex's clarity and neutral forwardness allows voices to be picked up easily. Want to watch movies? While it may not be as bombastic as a bass-forward headphone, it still has a good amount of rumble and impact to make action movies enjoyable. Want to just sit back and listen to music before bedtime at low volumes? The Elex has you covered. Need critical, analytically focused listening? Hey, the Elex is no slouch. Really, it just lends itself to anything you throw at it.


*Practicality:*

The Elex has quite a large footprint, isn't collapsible in anyway, and is a bit on the heftier side of headphones. It's also very open, which isn't suited for outside listening. All of this means that the Elex makes for a poor choice of headphone for portable or transportable use. Unless you have a large private office away from the next person, I wouldn't even recommend it for work either. Seriously, keep the Elex at home.


*Who Is It For?*

The better question would be, who ISN'T the Elex for? The Elex is so good, I'd recommend it to practically anyone and everyone. It's so good, I doubt many people out there wouldn't love it in some form or another.

If anything, I wouldn't recommend it for those wanting a headphone for the reasons I stated in the previous section. It's not portable-friendly, and it leaks a ton. Those would be the only two reasons I can think of stopping anyone from getting the Elex.

I do believe the bass is fine for a neutrally toned and balanced headphone, though if you're a basshead, then there's certainly other headphones better suited for you. I feel the bass is more realistic to the sound, not so much thunderous and omnipotent.

Basically, as long as you're expecting a headphone that is tonally well balanced, and not super colored one way or another, the Elex is brilliant, period.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Too much
Almost everything about its sound
Tonal balance
Clarity and detail
Ear Pads comfort
Build Quality
Aesthetics

*Dislikes:*

Not much
Thicker than necessary and stiff cables
Soundstage is merely average (I expected more considering how open the headphone it is)



*Final Impressions*​
I am absolutely enamored with the Focal Elex. I think it's the best all around headphone I've heard in many, many years. If someone were to ask me what my endgame headphone is, I'd be more than happy to say that the Elex could fill that spot. That being said, It'd be supplemental for something warmer and fuller sounding as a companion like an LCD2C, since my tastes are for something darker with more bass. Still, if you were to ask me if I'd spend at most $1500 for either a headphone like an Arya (which I've heard, and is absolutely brilliant), or two that are $750-ish, I'd definitely would take the Elex as one of them.

There's just little that goes wrong here with the Focal Elex. It is an absolute joy to listen to for anything I manage to throw at it. I've come to expect nothing but excellence from Drop. This joint venture with Focal has to be the most impressive of all. The only problem born from having listened to the Elex, is that now I want to hear what else Focal has to offer. If the Elex is this good, I can only imagine how impressive their higher end headphones are. For $700, if you want well balanced and highly detailed, I believe you only have two real choices: the Focal Elex, and the Hifiman Ananda. Personally, you can't go wrong with either, but I do find the Elex more comfortable, and usable for longer periods. So my choice would be the Elex 9 times out of 10. I also think it's less peaky, and tonally better behaved than the Ananda. However, the soundstage is considerably more impressive on the Ananda. Nothing can quite match the soundstage height of a big Hifiman planar. In the end, the choice between the Elex and Ananda is one I don't envy.

I believe Drop called the Elex a super-HD650. I'd be more inclined to say they'd be better off known as super HD600s. They're not as warm and dark as the HD650. They sound more neutral, not as mid-forward, and better balanced than the HD650. which is what I've always heard of the HD600s. So if you want a super-HD600, the Focal Elex is a prime candidate.

Up to this point, I'd say nothing has managed to hit me on this deep a level the way the Focal Elex has. At least as far as headphones that aren't gear specifically to my tastes. The Elex would be that "And One" headphone. So for example, I would own an LCD2C AND the Elex. I would own a Denon D7000 AND the Elex, etc. The Elex being the greatest complementary headphone is no mere compliment.


----------



## Chastity

Wait until you have to replace those pads...


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chastity said:


> Wait until you have to replace those pads...


O_O

Maybe I'll just opt for Dekoni Velours then lol.


----------



## Ichos

Chastity said:


> Wait until you have to replace those pads...


The Drop pads are not so expensive like the Focal pads.

https://drop.com/buy/focal-pads-for-elex-headphones


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

https://hardcoregamer.com/2021/06/14/404953/404953/

Nice, if you were thinking of a Mobius as well as Resident Evil Village


----------



## Leonarfd

Only thing that sucks on the Elex is the shallow cups, big ear gang suffer with Focal headphones. Brilliant headphone otherwise.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I rhought the cups were pretty deep.


----------



## Leonarfd

Might just be my stupid ears, had the Clear and Elex a week on loan. From experience when I keep a headphone that pinch my ears, they don't get any head time(looking at my HD600 unused for 5 years)


----------



## Renleux (Jun 15, 2021)

Hey, bros, hope you are doing well. I´m a newbie and i have some questions.
I have a Sennheiser HD 560s (bought a boom microphone cable 2.5 to 3.5) and i want to use a Dac/Amp that works on Xbox One S, mainly to be able to hear party chat and crystal clear footsteps.
What are my options?  do i need to buy a Mixamp Pro and connect it to a second Dac?
Im on a budget so i want to buy the 40 dollars Syba Sonic Dac, does this work alone by itself on Xbox (party chat) or either way i need a Mixamp?

Sorry if my English is not the best and sorry for my ignorance in these themes as well.


----------



## pervysage (Jun 15, 2021)

The smaller or more "focused" soundstage of Focal phones isn't so bad for gaming when combined with the right surround solution, I think you are right with that point. At first I was thinking HD800 blows it away but comparing them more side by side, I actually enjoy how hyper focused I get on my surroundings in a competitive shooter for example. Everything is very immediate and in your face, whereas on the HD800 everything is more spread out and not as readily apparent as a "threat" so I tend to lose focus on certain things that I actually should be focused on, if that makes sense.

It's the same thing when it comes to music... Focal phones really throw you into the action and get you toe tapping all the time... it's not a headphone you can sit back, throw on a tune and study/read or something... it demands attention lol.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Renleux said:


> Hey, bros, hope you are doing well. I´m a newbie and i have some questions.
> I have a Sennheiser HD 560s (bought a boom microphone cable 2.5 to 3.5) and i want to use a Dac/Amp that works on Xbox One S, mainly to be able to hear party chat and crystal clear footsteps.
> What are my options?  do i need to buy a Mixamp Pro and connect it to a second Dac?
> Im on a budget so i want to buy the 40 dollars Syba Sonic Dac, does this work alone by itself on Xbox (party chat) or either way i need a Mixamp?
> ...


For a $40 budget, I would suggest a used Mix-amp, off eBay, for use with gaming consoles.


----------



## Renleux (Jun 16, 2021)

PurpleAngel said:


> For a $40 budget, I would suggest a used Mix-amp, off eBay, for use with gaming consoles.


Thank you for your answer. Yes, I have the money to buy the Mixamp Pro (150 budget) but not to buy an expensive second Dac/amp. That's why i have in mind the Syba Sonic.
Will I be able to get party chat with that setup: Mixamp Pro and Syba Sonic?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Renleux said:


> Thank you for your answer. Yes, I have the money to buy the Mix-amp Pro (150 budget) but not to buy an expensive second Dac/amp. That's why i have in mind the Syba Sonic.
> Will I be able to get party chat with that setup: Mix-amp Pro and Syba Sonic?


The Mix-amp can process headphone surround sound (5.1 or 7.1 or other) into headphone surround sound.
The Syba Sonic is more basic, 2-channels in, 2-channels out.


----------



## halcyon

*Sound Blaster X4 released
Press release: *https://sg.creative.com/corporate/pressroom?id=13706
*Product page:* https://www.creative.com/SBX4/
*Manuals*: http://support.creative.com/manuals/welcome.aspx?catID=1&catName=Sound Blaster&subCatID=1090&subCatName=X-Series&prodID=23705&prodName=Sound Blaster X4












*Some basics:*
- Paper specs: 114 dB, 24-bit / 192 kHz
- 7.1 discrete out (3.5mm plugs)
- 7.1 virtual headphone sound
- Dolby Digital Encoding
- Super X-Fi for headphones (SXFI App needed for setup)
- Line-out/Line-in
- Optical digital in/out
- Headphone support: 32-600Ohm
- USB-C powered
- No SXFI output to Line-out (that I can find)


----------



## HieroX

halcyon said:


> *Sound Blaster X4 released
> Press release: *https://sg.creative.com/corporate/pressroom?id=13706
> *Product page:* https://www.creative.com/SBX4/
> *Manuals*: http://support.creative.com/manuals/welcome.aspx?catID=1&catName=Sound Blaster&subCatID=1090&subCatName=X-Series&prodID=23705&prodName=Sound Blaster X4
> ...


Is it any much different from the X3 though?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 19, 2021)

The thing with the GC7 is that it has SBX, SXFI battle, and the regular SXFI. They each sound very different. So you can choose which works best for you.


----------



## halcyon

HieroX said:


> Is it any much different from the X3 though?


Your guess is as good as mine. We'll have to wait and see. What I found out in the press blurbs, mostly detailed about Mic / echo cancellation and such features. Whether the SXFI features are any different, I have no idea.


----------



## Chastity

HieroX said:


> Is it any much different from the X3 though?


Being powered via USB-C should give it more available juice to play with.


----------



## ronfifer

I will be the one asking that same question again, but for the Drop Focal Elex: how was pinpointing footsteps?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 28, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> I will be the one asking that same question again, but for the Drop Focal Elex: how was pinpointing footsteps?


The Elex responds fantastically well to virtual surround. That + high level of detail = it makes for an excellent competitive gaming headphone.

Virtual surround more or less makes any decently soundstaging headphone automatically excellent.

Now, the Elex soundstage inherently isn't anything special without virtual surround, so if you're mainly a stereo gamer, it's pretty average in that regard. Then again, high clarity, so it's gonna be at least decent.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

If anyone has the iFi Zen Dac (or Zen Dac V2) they have a firmware which enables Playstation support now.  Got my V2 today and loaded it on/tested and all works well.  Just thought it worth a mention in case anyone hadn't seen the new update.


----------



## bizkid (Jun 30, 2021)

I just bought the Razer Blackshark V2 for a good price and i'm very happy with it. However did anyone notice that it sounds better in the mids with the supplied USB DAC used? On all my other sources the mids are noticably more recessed and thinner. It seems to apply some EQ to the signal and i'm not using the Razer Software.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 6, 2021)

----------
----------

*Schiit Fulla 4*


Fulla 4: $109 as of June 2021
Where to buy: *Fulla 4 at Schiit.com*

_Disclaimer: A special thanks to Schiit's Jason Stoddard for sending out the Fulla 4 for my impressions. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Schiit, Jason, or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything other than for my honest impressions. That's it._

Here is an excerpt from my 2019 Fulla 3 and Hel review (edited for Fulla 4 specificity), which still applies here:

_"As I'm someone who doesn't feel comfortable with dac/amp reviews, this particular "review" will be a bit more freestyle, with a more relaxed, thoughts on paper approach to writing, as opposed to my typical review process of trying to make it as professional as I possibly can. I think it's better for it, as I don't feel right about trying to condense my thoughts into my common review style for headphones for amp/dacs. It's why you haven't seen any full on review of anything outside of the gaming dac/amps that were easier to write about due to the software features. As Schiit's dac/amps are more simplistic, without any software, it wouldn't work quite the same. This entry will not be as long as those reviews, but I'll do my best in trying to make it legible to a degree. Thanks for your understanding.

I also know those in my small corner of the audiophile community like and use virtual surround devices, which the Fulla 4 is not. Nowadays, it's no big deal as current generation consoles have their own internal virtual surround solutions (i.e. Sony Tempest 3D audio, Xbox's use of Dolby Atmos). Besides, the Fulla 4 makes an excellent amp/dac outside of gaming as well."_

The Fulla 4 does have a few, but meaningful additions over the original Fulla, which should absolutely appeal to a much larger crowd of gamers and audio enthusiasts alike.

Make note that I will be reiterating a LOT of what I said of the original Fulla 3 and even the Hel 2, as it also applies to the Fulla 4. So any copypasta seen on this review should be taken as factual to my thoughts on the Fulla 4. It may be similar thoughts as the Hel 2, and I attest to the accuracy of my impressions despite similar statements. You really should consider this 'review' more as an update/revamp of the original Fulla 3 review, with additions that stemmed from the Hel 2 review. You've been warned.



*Intro*​
It's been essentially a year and a half since I posted my impressions on the Fulla 3 and original Hel. There were aspects of the Fulla 3 that I felt could have easily have been improved in its next iteration (like the use of 3.5mm input on the Fulla 3 instead of the better 1/4" input now being used on the Fulla 4), and I'm happy to report that the Fulla 4 has rectified nearly, if not all of the Fulla 3's shortcomings. What we have now if a dac/amp that caters to a considerably larger demographic. While the Fulla 3 was limited to mainly being most useful on PC, the Fulla 4 has broadened its scope to reach consoles as well as televisions. This is where the vast majority of gamers play, so this was the correct move by Schiit.

So what has changed, and is the Fulla 4 worth it if you already own the Fulla 3? The answer to that depends on what it is you want from the Fulla 4. If you're coming in fresh, the Fulla 4 is an absolute and clear upgrade.



*Build*​
Schiit knows how to make some sexy looking gear. Their outer appearance is 100% Schiit, and hasn't strayed far from year 1 Schiit products. Don't fix it if it ain't broke, I'd say. Its size is essentially a Modi or Magni chopped in half, slightly shorter in height, with a beefy volume pot attached to the top. It's a cute, tiny thing, with the volume knob being almost comically large relative to the body itself. The volume pot makes the one on the Magni look puny.


*Front (left to right) vs Hel 2:
*

3.5mm mic input: The Fulla 3 replaced the Fulla 2's front facing analog input, (which was moved to the rear on the Fulla 3). Thankfully, the Fulla 4 keeps the analog mic input.

6.3mm (1/4") headphone jack: It probably isn't true, but I'd like to think that Schiit specifically listened to me when I said that the Fulla would be better off going back to a 1/4" headphone input instead of the 3.5mm input on the Fulla 3. Schiit opted to return to a 1/4" input, which I feel just makes all the sense in the world. "But what about headsets that only have 3.5mm plugs?" That's what adapters are for. I think all amplifiers should have 1/4" inputs, as they are more robust, and you can easily just include a snap on adapter. Had the Fulla kept a 3.5mm input, you'd have to deal with 3.5mm adapters which aren't great unless it's in cable form, and which are more expensive than the questionable barrel adapters that add stress to 3.5mm ports. Thanks for listening, Schiit.


*Rear of the Fulla (left to right) vs Hel 2:
*

3.5mm variable analog out - Unlike the Fulla 3 I had on hand, the Fulla 4 DOES come with an indicator next to the volume knob that indicates line level.

Toslink/SPDIF/Optical digital output - This is the newest and biggest change coming from the Fulla 3 to the Fulla 4. Gone is the analog input, which while you can no longer use the Fulla 4 as an amp only, is replaced with the optical input which allows you the ability to use the Fulla 4 with many more devices, like Televisions and older generation game consoles. The Fulla 4 isn't exactly a powerful amplifier, so it makes much more sense as a source first device, amplifier second. The only improvement I'd like to see for a possible Fulla 5 is for the optical digital to be replaced with either a flapless optical input, or even better, a 3.5mm optical input instead. Both are much more resilient to damage than the current flap cover optical input. Please Schiit, it'll save you from potential RMA headaches of people breaking their optical inputs. I've been there all too often.

Power Type C USB input - Hallelujah! There is a god. The horrible, technological curse that was Micro USB is almost entirely behind us! In its place, the Fulla 4 has gone with the miraculous, wonderful, reversible Type C input. Unlike the Hel 2, you DON'T need to use this input for power, as long as you can draw power from the other USB input. I can see this input being more if you don't have a usb port nearby, and have to plug to a wall wart. Also, you may be only using the optical input on the Fulla 4, so you don't have a way to power from a USB source. If you do find yourself drawing power from the wall, the other USB input will draw no power from your source. This might help cutting down USB noise.

Type C USB Data input - This one is necessary for USB DAC use. On PC, the Fulla 4 can go up to 32bit/384khz.


*Top vs Hel 2:
*

Volume Knob - The top of the Fulla 4 holds the volume knob, which has changed from the Fulla 3. For once, it's no longer silver, but is instead black with a white indicator, which is much easier to see than the one on the Fulla 3. It also has no noise when adjusting the volume.



Ventilation - There is also some open slots up here for ventilation, as is the norm on all Schiit amps. Unfortunately, unlike the Hel 2, there is no internal red led as a power indicator, which I think is a mistake. There is no way to tell the Fulla 4 is off/on by sight. I think a potential Fulla 5 SHOULD have an internal led as a power indicator. Preferably red like the Hel. This is one thing they didn't make note of on my review of the Fulla 3.


*Sides and Bottom vs Hel 2:
*

The left and right sides in lined with circular holes for ventilation. You can also see inside. The main things to note on the bottom are the sticker with the unit number, as well as the 4 rubber feet. The Fulla 3 had only 3 rubber feet (two in front, one on back) which made the Fulla 3 wobbly. This is another thing I brought up to Schiit, or perhaps it's mere coincidence, but I'll still take credit for. "The Fulla's problem is that there is only one rubber foot on the rear, which makes it wobble a bit with minimal pressure. I think for the eventual Fulla 4, Schiit should place 4 feet on the bottom. It's a minor quibble, nothing truly necessary, but would be welcome."



See? They listened to me. 

In terms of weight and size, the Fulla 4 is light and super compact, making it a perfect companion for notebooks/laptops. For that alone, I would consider the Fulla 4 over virtually any other dac/amp for on the go purposes. You simply connect it via USB, and toss it in a bag when done. It is simplicity at its best. Function and form for the minimalist who mainly wants more than what a laptop can provide through its headphone jack.


*Final Build Quality Impressions:*

I love the build and looks of the Fulla 4. The black and red look sleek and fierce without going overboard. The metal body feels premium, and the inclusion of a new, black, volume knob, as well as type C, and optical inputs are all welcome changes.

The Fulla 4 is incredibly well designed overall. In terms of physical improvements that can be made, there's not much I'd change here. The optical input could be changed to one without the plastic flap/door of doom, or even better, a 3.5mm optical input. That, and once again, they really should add an internal red led as a power indicator. That's about it.

Schiit, you've almost perfected the miniature dac/amp with the Fulla 4. You're ALMOST there. Maybe with the next one, you'll finally reach perfection.



*Accessories*​
The Fulla 4 comes with a 3ft Type C to Type A USB cable as its only accessory. Nothing really necessary in addition to the cable, though perhaps a headset audio/mic splitter cable would've been great, though I understand why it wasn't included, as it'd add to the cost. You may need a longer USB cable depending on your setup. If getting a Fulla 4, I also recommend picking up a headset audio/mic splitter like *THIS*, as well as a 6ft or 10ft type C cable.



*Ease of Use*​
The Fulla 4 is a wonderful product in that there is no software required, and in most current age setups don't require driver downloads. You simply plug it into your main device, and select it as your audio device. You should be good to go. If for some reason you're using something a bit older without UAC2 support, Schiit has a driver download page with instructions, HERE (https://www.schiit.com/guides/gaming).

As a gaming dac/amp, the Fulla 4 is a bit more limited in comparison to something like the Creative G6 or X7 due to lack of typical features found on other devices like software, equalizers, presets, etc. That being said, there are reasons to go for the Fulla 4 over the more specialized gaming dac/amps, one being the much, much easier to use functionality. You really can't mess up the usability here, while stuff like the G6 and X7 can at times be hampered by its software and driver issues. With the Fulla 4, you plug it in, and it just works. Select it as the audio and/or mic device, and you're good to go. No fiddling with drivers, software, and confusing options. What you see, is what you get. That to me, is perfect. Outside of my love for virtual surround processing options, I tend not to bother with all other features on those types of dac/amps. So if and when I'm not worried about virtual surround applications, I find the Fulla 4 to be a more ideal choice. Now that there are easily available virtual surround programs like Redscape and Waves NX, you don't even need an external device. The Fulla 4 would work perfectly with those programs.

In terms of non-PC use, it's almost as if Schiit listened to me directly, as they did EXACTLY what I asked of them to do, on the original Fulla 3 review. Here's what I said (edited for specificity):

_"...the analog input takes care of (the) times when you need just an amplifier, though I believe as a gaming dac/amp, a digital toslink/spdif optical input would've greatly added to the Fulla's functionality where it counts."_

and then,

_"I'd happily give up the analog input on (the Fulla) for this, personally. For the Fulla, I'm sure something can be done to add an optical input in the future, which would allow the Fulla to compete in the console space."_

That is exactly what Schiit has done, allowing the Fulla 4 to easily function for PC or PS5, as well as any device with an optical output, like a smart TV. You can plug everything to your TV through HDMI, and just have the TV send out a digital signal to the Fulla 4. That would take care of multiple devices, even an Xbox Series X (sans the microphone function).

Going back to the volume knobs, I just find them so much better in practicality over front mounted knobs, for devices as small as the Fulla 4. You can essentially just rest your hands near the unit and adjust with your fingers, while front mounted knobs require a bit more effort. I don't know, I'm sure it's purely based on preference, but if Schiit placed volume knobs on top of all their mini solid state amps like the Magni, I'd be all over that. Yes, it means they'll have to sit on the top of whatever Schiit stack you have going on, but that's an easy choice to make. Even off center, I think a Magni with a top mounted knob on the right side with ventilation on the left would be wonderful. Maybe for a Magni 4. The Hel and Fulla are already covered.

The Fulla has automatic switches when headphones are plugged in that mutes the rear output. While this is absolutely helpful and fine overall, I still think a manual switch would be better. It's not a big deal, but I like being able to personally toggle which output to use. The Fulla doesn't have a gain switch, so unlike the Hel, there's not much of a chance to mismatch volumes between what you use for the Fulla alone, or when connected an external amplifier or speakers.



*Connectivity*​
*PC:*

On Windows, all you have to do is plug it in, and select the Fulla 4 as your output device (as well as input device for the Microphone), and that's it. You can go to the sound control panel in windows sound settings, right click on the Fulla 4, click on Properties, go to the Advanced tab, and change the default format to anything between 16bit/44khz, and oversampling up to 32bit/384khz.




*Optical Input:

*

As far as optical input goes, make sure whatever device you have connected to the Fulla 4 is outputting 2ch PCM/Stereo. Not Dolby Digital or DTS, or more than 2ch. I said this earlier, but if you're sending a digital signal that has been converted to virtual surround (like Creative's SBX from the G6's optical out), the process of converting 7.1 down to 2ch was done before being sent to the Fulla 4, so it's totally fine.

Keep in mind that many TV's or other devices may send Dolby Digital or DTS by default, so you MUST change, or you'll get unpleasant digital noise from the Fulla 4.


*Playstation 5:*

You simply plug the Fulla 4's data usb port to any of the PS5's usb ports. I recommend using one of the rear usb ports on the PS5. The Type C input in front was dropping the signal every few seconds. Had zero issues on the rear ports. Not an issue with the Fulla 4, but the PS5. Once connected, go to the sound settings. 3D Audio will work perfectly as well through the USB (not through HDMI currently).



The PS5 will also read the Fulla 4 as a microphone device.




*Nintendo Switch:*

I no longer have a Nintendo Switch, but I was able to get it work through a USB dongle, and I'm sure the Switch would also pick up the Fulla 4 when connected to the USB port. If I get a chance to update with an image in the future, I will.


*Xbox Series S/X:*

Unfortunately, Microsoft uses proprietary codecs, which the Fulla 4 doesn't support. Schiit would have to specifically pay for the license and make an Xbox only version of the Fulla 4, which is probably not the best use of Schiit's time and money. At the very least, you can still rely on getting main audio from a TV which the Xbox console would likely be hooked up to. You won't be able to utilize the Fulla 4 for voice chat through an Xbox.



*Amplification*​
Per Schiit: _"Fulla 4 delivers a super punch, up to 300mW into 16 ohms, together with a vanishingly low noise floor and low output impedance. Or, in English, this means it’s a great match for virtually any headphone."_

Personally speaking, I think the Fulla is ideally for on the go or secondary setups with easier to drive headphones, with the Hel being a better choice in a main setup with big headphones.

Be realistic with your expectations on what to pair with the Fulla 4. I certainly feel like it struggles with a 300ohm Sennheiser HD6XX, but does perfectly fine with a highly sensitive 16-ohm Audeze LCD-1, and even something like the 80ohm but highly sensitive Focal Elex.

If you need more power with a similar feature set, opt for the Hel 2 instead. Otherwise, you can get the Fulla 4 for true on the go portability, and compensate it with a higher power amp when not using it portably. An example would be having the Fulla 4 as a laptop dac/amp, and when home, attaching a Vali 2+, or Magni 3+ amplifier to the Fulla 4's analog out to supplement it with more power.

I personally do think if you plan on going portable, the Fulla 4 makes more sense than the Hel 2, as you can power it directly from a laptop, instead of having to carry an extra cable and plug like you'd need to with the Hel 2. Then again, it really depends on what you're trying to power, and whether you're ok with more accessories to carry with you. Me, I like the simplicity of just having a laptop, the Fulla 4, and a headphone.



*Microphone*​
For today's testing, I was limited in the gear I have for recording, so I kept it simple with a Fulla 4 vs Hel 2 mic comparison using the V-Moda BoomPro.



^Fulla 4 w/V-Moda BoomPro



^Hel 2 w/V-Moda BoomPro

As you've probably noticed, the Fulla 4's automatic mic gain, means it's default recording volume is...loud. The Hel 2 on the other hand has an analog mic volume control where you can dictate how low or high you want to go, though even at max, the Fulla 4 still picks up voice at a louder volume.

Personally, I'm fine with either dac for mic duties, though I do like the ability to adjust on the fly with the Hel 2. The Fulla 4 will require software mic volume control, like the one on Discord. Not a big deal, but you'll want to make note of that.



*Sound*​
Outside of the instance where I found a noticeable difference between the original Modi and the Objective DAC (ODAC), I have never been someone to truly hear a meaningful difference out of all the DACs I have owned (this is why I tend to decline or stay away from doing DAC reviews). This does not change with the Fulla 4. I don't have a reliable way to do quick and blind comparisons, so all I can say is that subjectively, the DAC sounds like I expect a good DAC to sound like, which is a silent noise floor, super clean, and without artifacts or errors due to the digital to analog conversion.

On the amplification side, as the Fulla 4 is a solid state amp, I also don't expect to hear a drastic difference between the Fulla 4 and Fulla 3 in terms of sonic characteristics. As such, I don't wanna make things up and write them down in a section full of hyperbole. I never had a problem with the original Fulla 3's sound, and I certainly don't have a problem here.

I'm not one of those people that buys amps wanting them to impart anything to the sound (at least not solid state amps). I mainly just want an amp to do what is required, and that is to provide sufficient, clean power to the headphones attached to them. If you want some majestic difference, consider a tube amp where you can somewhat tailor the sound to your liking. Even next to the Jotunheim 2 (which has more tactility, impact, and control, though the difference is still subtle), I don't feel like I'm missing anything (within reason) by using the Fulla 4 amplifier with properly powered headphones.

If you want some hyperbolic statements on how this sounds smoother, richer, more precise, faster, more detailed, incisive, more open, or whatever buzzword you'd like to hear as it pertains to an amp or DAC you WON'T find it here. The Fulla 4 as either a DAC to another amplifier or as a standalone DAC/AMP sounds great. Plain and simple.



*Personal Recommendations*​
The Fulla makes a perfect on the go transportable dac/amp for laptops. Can't ever underestimate the simplicity of having a small device that merely connects via USB, and gets full functionality. If you care even a little about your audio quality on the go, I can't think of a better dac/amp device than the Fulla, not even the Hel. It's small, simple, cheap, effective, and doesn't require external power. Toss it in your bag, and go.



Of course, the Hel's biggest benefit over the Fulla is that it's much, much more powerful, so it'll pair up nicer with many more headphones.

If you mainly want something for a laptop and need it to be completely portable, I think going with the Fulla 4 wouldn't be a bad idea over the Hel 2, though only if you don't plan on using harder to drive headphones. The Fulla packs plenty of power for many headphones, just don't go trying to press your luck. The Fulla has the benefit of only needing one cable to a laptop, while the Hel needs a separate power adapter. It also has a mic input, though mic gain will have to be adjusted by your source.

Then you have the UAC switching, which allows the Fulla to be used with something like the Playstation 5 via USB, which no DAC other than the Hel 2 on Schiit's line has. So for the purpose of PS5 use, I'd take a Fulla 4 even if you were planning on using a better amplifier. You have very few choices for UAC1 purposes nowadays, and the Fulla 4 being one of the cheapest and most effective sells itself.

The Fulla also now comes with an optical input which boosts its versatility tenfold. Setting things up as easily as plugging everything to a TV or receiver, and sending the optical digital PCM signal to the Fulla 4 (and even attaching a bigger amplifier to the Fulla 4), means you're easily covered here.


*Likes and Dislikes*​

*Likes:*

Size, Build, Portability
Top mounted volume knob
Simplicity/Ease of use
Mic input
Clean sound, no noise floor
Optical Input
4 bottom feet now

*Dislikes:*

Unlike the Hel, No (internal) led power indicator

*Final Impressions*​
Schiit didn't have to do much to make the Fulla 4 worth looking into over the Fulla 3. The addition of an optical digital input alone would've made it worthwhile. Yet, Schiit went a step further an added the UAC auto switching, meaning the ability to use the Fulla 4 with the Playstation 5. They thought this through, and us gamers benefit the most from it.

The Fulla 4 is an easy sell. An affordable, excellent DAC/amp you can take anywhere which trumps anything you'd get out of a phone, tablet or computer's built in sound capabilities. Plenty for most available headphones or headsets that aren't known to require gobs of power. The type of headphones and headsets you'd likely be taking with you on the go to coffee shops, offices, or have in secondary setups. Really, the Fulla 4 is a banger of a product. Not much else to say. If you're getting into dac/amps, the Fulla 4 is an excellent starter and a bridge to Schiit's other offerings.


----------



## ronfifer

Thanks. Can the automatic mic gain be disabled on the fulla?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I doubt it. I'm sure you can limit the ceiling through Windows, but that's it.


----------



## WhiteHartMart (Jul 4, 2021)

Loved the Fulla 4 I had although they appear to be having some issues at present with that device and are trying to work on a fix from what I've read.  My device had to go back as (like many, many others) there were issues getting or staying connected to my devices.  Only worked on the PS5 the first day then would never get recognised.  On my PC it worked only through one USB port and then crashed my machine. Anyone thinking of buying one should probably hold off until they have resolved the issues.


----------



## Rozzko (Jul 4, 2021)

What the difference between hel (2)  and fulla (4) ? Only Power to amp more heavy headphones?

I notice one thing, that fulla don’t have gain switch. So connection IEM with fulla 4 will be problem


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 4, 2021)

The Fulla has less power and gain than the Hel 2. The Hel has a power switch, a gain switch, and a mic gain knob. The Fulla does not. The Hel is much more powerful. Like MUCH more.

The Fulla can be powered by a laptop or tablet, the Hel cannot (needs to be plugged into a wall with the included wall wart).

In almost every case, you'll want the Hel over the Fulla, aside from true portability, which I think the Fulla is a better fit. If you don't plan on going portable, then save up for the Hel 2. That's my recommendation. If you are, the Fulla is super nice to have.

As for IEMs, I dunno, I don't use any.

A third option is to get the Fulla, and a Magni for essentially the same price as the Hel 2. That'll give you the access to true portability, and an even better amp than the Hel when you're not being portable.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Fulla has less power and gain than the Hel 2. The Hel has a power switch, a gain switch, and a mic gain knob. The Fulla does not. The Hel is much more powerful. Like MUCH more.
> 
> The Fulla can be powered by a laptop or tablet, the Hel cannot (needs to be plugged into a wall with the included wall wart).
> 
> ...


Thanks. It’s interesting how fulla will be with IEMs. Nice or so much power. It’s bad that fulla don’t have gain switch.

if I don’t need portability and my headphones don’t need much poWer so I think fulla will be better because of 100$ cheaper


----------



## harryyeo

For a newbie entering the VSS fray for gaming purely on PC, is it better for me to just get a software based solution (which is best by the way?) or should I get an extra hardware like the GC7 or GSX1000? 
Currently I have an existing DAC and amp for music purposes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just get a software solution. I recommend Redscape above the rest.


----------



## Tom239

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think a potential Fulla 5 SHOULD have an internal led as a power indicator.


I agree.  I have an old Magni 2 which in addition to a front panel LED has two on the top of the circuit board.  I don't know if they're wholly ornamental or whether they serve some other purpose in the circuit--but either way they are a nice touch.


----------



## Playstation (Jul 5, 2021)

Do open backs create the best sound for gaming?

Do closed backs sound/feel claustrophobic?

To have a broad soundstage, do headphones need to be neutral? Is a broad soundstage ideal as a pair of all around( fun/competitive) headphones for gaming?

Is the bass in all planar headphones linear? What about mid bass?

Are there fun planers?

List five headphones under $500 that sound fun.

List five headphones under $500 that excel in the fun department when used in a amp/dac/eq setup

I haven't added a mini loki to my setup yet, because they are on backorder. I'm still using my X2HR's. I am happy with them, I imagine I will be even happier once I get to eq them. I wonder if I would be happier with a pair of planars though.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Rozzko said:


> Thanks. It’s interesting how fulla will be with IEMs. Nice or so much power. It’s bad that fulla don’t have gain switch.
> 
> if I don’t need portability and my headphones don’t need much poWer so I think fulla will be better because of 100$ cheaper


Schiit Fulla's headphone jack has a .5-Ohm output impedance, so should be fine with just about any (like 99% ?) IEM.


----------



## Chastity

Playstation said:


> Do open backs create the best sound for gaming?
> 
> Do closed backs sound/feel claustrophobic?
> 
> ...


1)  In general, open are preferred, however some prefer the isolation from surroundings/kids/wife/husband.

2) There are some very good closed backs that don't sound narrow.  Tho I prefer open to allow for breathing/comfort, plus I can make out when a call comes in.

4) The bass response on planars is different based on tunings.  The M1070 I am using has a solid bass foundation and leans on the warm side.  The Sundara, in contrast does not, but takes EQ in the range well.  The M1070 has some resonance issues with th elambskins, and I recommend using Oratory1990's EQ to fix. (use the M1570 EQ, adjust to taste)

5)  I find my M1070 to be more dynamic and impactful (fun) than my DT-1990.  

6) DT-1990, M1070, M1570 off the top of my head.  Maybe add the Tygr 300 R, but no direct experience.  I'm also looking at a set of ATH-R70X.

7) See above.    I use a SMSL M300 MKII DAC, FX Audio Tube-01 preamp w/ Sylvania JAN CHS 6AK5 tubes, and an Asgard 3.


----------



## Playstation

Chastity said:


> 1)  In general, open are preferred, however some prefer the isolation from surroundings/kids/wife/husband.
> 
> 2) There are some very good closed backs that don't sound narrow.  Tho I prefer open to allow for breathing/comfort, plus I can make out when a call comes in.
> 
> ...


i hope the schiit mini loki will suffice, because it will complete my stack. odd that premium lambskin pads cause a problem. i just researched the fuzzor mod


----------



## Qupie

Sadly, I have run into problems with my schiit hel 2 as well. And while schiit couldn't return me a working unit, they fully refunded my order. Great service.

I decided to just go with an audiophile dac and amp, without worrying about the PS5 (honestly, the dual sense output is just fine for PC38x).

But now I was browsing aliexpress, and saw this. Has anyone tried using an cheap USB to optical converter for audio on PS5? It says it should work on PS4, so I imagine it would work on PS5 as well? Might have the volume bug but I imagine that wont be a problem with a Singxer SA1

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002644086088.html


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 7, 2021)

I'm gonna have to add this to the first post as well, but...

*About my employment at Audeze*

I know you guys will have questions, and want to know how it will affect the guide, and my reviews. I'll try and answer some of the easy things I feel are bound to get asked.


*When were you hired by Audeze?*

I started as of Wednesday, July 7th, 2021


*What will you be doing for Audeze?*

Starting with customer service, social media/forum help (You'll see me as @Audeze on here from time to time, though it's a shared account and not necessarily me). I'll also be helping Audeze on things outside of this, like attempting to improve the brand's gaming aspects. Just nebulous things where I'm not firmly rooted in one position.


*What will happen to your old Audeze reviews?*

Seeing as they were made years, to nearly even a decade ago, no one can complain about bias, when I had no idea I'd ever work for Audeze in the future. As such, those reviews will remain as they are. I will only add a disclaimer in that they were written prior to my employment.


*Will you be reviewing Audeze products in the future?*

I will NOT be reviewing Audeze products. Instead, I will write more of a *'first look'* type of impression for anything Audeze feels would be of interest for me, the guide, or gamers in general. What this means, is that I'll be writing similar to my reviews, but without obvious personal opinions that may come off as bias for or against Audeze. More of a cut to the chase as to how I feel about sounds like... "Headphone X seems to have a dip at 7khz" things that are subjectively my own opinion, without the obvious things like "This is the best gaming headphone I've ever heard. Better than headphone X from X company!"

I ask that you put your trust in me when I say that I will not be compromised in terms of my reviews, or my statements towards Audeze's products. It will be written very much with the same structure as my reviews, but with some areas needed obvious change as to omit personal opinions that lean to far towards or against Audeze.

Audeze has allowed me to maintain my freedom as a reviewer, even those not made by Audeze. It MAY limit the scope of products I review if it directly clashes with a product Audeze may want to push out in a particular segment, but I will not be influenced to say anything good or bad by Audeze themselves.

*Will you be reviewing other company products in the future?*

Yes. I am still a reviewer on my own time, which has nothing to do with my employment. Audeze has ensured me that they do not intend to censor me or my opinions on other products. I may have to be more selective on certain competitor products (you wouldn't want a Coke employee reviewing Pepsi), but in terms of most products that fall outside what Audeze tends to do, they'll more than likely be fair game.

I don't write many reviews to begin with, so I don't expect you guys to see much of a difference compared to my typical review flow.


----------



## Chastity

1st off, congrats on landing a job with Audeze!  Working for a company doing something you love and/or have a passion for is nothing short of a life achievement!  I had that kind of experience working for Asus.  May you find it satisfying.  

On another note, you got me re-evaluating Redscape vs Waves NX, and calibrating Redscape for my head.    Grrrr.


----------



## Veliladon

Can you tell Audeze to give us a wireless Mobius already? Put the WNX7000 in the USB dongle and then send the binaural audio over the RF link.

I really love my Mobius and I'm used to Waves NX so I don't want to get a Penrose and start from scratch with Redscape.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 7, 2021)

Hmm, I'll pass that along. I do like Waves myself, and feel Waves program it'll hit full potential if in the future it includes room size and ambience sliders the way the Mobius does. Waves to me is at its best with the Mobius because of it.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Oh nice,

had to read it twice as I haven't been following this thread for a good while. I'm happy for you to be at Audeze! Long overdue for you to be part of a headphone company.


----------



## Huntersknoll

Congrats! Help them make the greatest gaming headphone possible! I'm a huge fan of the penrose and am looking forward to the next evolution


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

It's been a long time coming! Go get em Tiger! Might have to get a pair of Audezes in the near future ^^


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Congrats @Mad Lust Envy - now if you could magic the technology to help Audeze make an open backed wireless gaming headset I'd be eternally grateful


----------



## kadinh

Congrats MLE! That is some awesome news to hear.



Qupie said:


> Sadly, I have run into problems with my schiit hel 2 as well. And while schiit couldn't return me a working unit, they fully refunded my order. Great service.
> 
> I decided to just go with an audiophile dac and amp, without worrying about the PS5 (honestly, the dual sense output is just fine for PC38x).
> 
> ...



This is exactly how I have my DAC/Amp hooked up to my PS5. 

PS5 ---> USB --> UAC 1 DAC (the one you linked) ---> Toslink/optical cable ---> Topping E30 optical port

IIRC, this will maintain the 3D Tempest audio from the PS5. I think I remember testing it and it working so that is why I kept it. 

I did not test if the first DAC degrades the quality of the signal going to the 2nd DAC, but it sounds MUCH better than plugging into the controller. I have the P38X as well and I thought plugging into the controller was good enough, but after playing with them for a few months and getting accustomed to their sound then switching back to my IEMs (Dunu SA8) through the DAC, it was an eye opener on how much worse the controller audio is; in Apex Legends, I could immediately tell what direction the footsteps were coming from, instead of a general right/left direction. It might not be a fair comparison, but now I mainly use the HD800S when I play and can't believe what I was missing out on.

As for microphone, I have a wireless ModMic and a USB ModMic (backup) that I use for voice chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

NiGHTS4EVA said:


> It's been a long time coming! Go get em Tiger! Might have to get a pair of Audezes in the near future ^^


Thanks, brother from another mother!


----------



## RedHarlow

So are there any dacs where you can adjust the ps5 volume? My Sharkoon Gaming dac pro s does not let me adjust the volume.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You mean internal PS5 volume? From all the ones I've used, the answer is no. The PS5 volume setting is independent of DAC volume. Personally, I'd just leave the PS5 volume at 9/10, one or two ticks down from max. I say this because I think the PS5 volume may be prone to clipping at max volume.


----------



## tarn

Hi everyone, I am new here

I looked around, used the search and found that this sub forum is the place to go for the questions iv been stuck on for the past few days

hoping I can get some help from the nice people here who are knowledgeable about the advice I am seeking.

thanks in advance.





I have recently moved on from my Logitech G Pro Wireless X headphones to move to something, lighter and just better for an everyday experience. And for my work from home life to have something that looks a lot more professional.

I picked up a Yeti Nano (finding that I am not happy with it so I will be swapping it out for a ModMic USB)

As it picks up too much noise from around like keyboard.



And I have a pair of Mass drop x Sennheiser HD 58X Jubilee’s



I have had this setup for a few weeks now and I am happy with the headphones, but I would like to take this chance complete the upgrade by adding a Dac/Amp Combo



My daily usage will be Desktop PC and the odd trip where I take headphones with me (few times a year),

As for what I use my headphones for is based around the following.


YouTube for entertainment
Music/Music Videos
Hip-hop
RnB
Pop
Country
Jazz
Almost anything

Sports news and highlights
Movies
Tutorials
Etc.

Gaming
FPS
Apex Legends
Counter Strike
Pubg
And some other odd ones here and there

RTS
Dota 2
And custom games within

Evil Genius 2
Sea of thieves

Work
MS Teams
Training
Videos



I have been looking for a Dac/Amp Combo unit I would like something that is plug and play. And I do not want a volume control on the unit as I plan to use the volume control on my keyboard to control the system volume.



The Dac/Amps I am considering


ear studio hud100
dragonfly red
dragonfly black
Monolith by Monoprice USB DAC
Spectra x
Apple Dac/Amp
DDHIFI TC44B USB-C


My price range is around $125.00 Cad $100.00 USD give or take 20.00-30.00

I do not mind buying used. And I have tracked down a few of these options at reasonable pricing in my area.



The features I am looking for


Able to control Sound from Wheel on my Keyboard
Windows volume mixer

Plug and Play (plug in and forget)
Will be on back of computer

Better audio for YouTube videos/music I have on daily
Help make Games more Clear
Footsteps
Staging
Etc.

Clearer Voice calls for Discord and MS Teams


The main reason I am *not* looking for something with Schiit like The Hella, Fulla or Magni +Dac. I have no interest in using a volume controller to control my headphones as I already have that function on my keyboard. I have limited space as I have 4 monitors. Also, this unit will be untouched for more then 350 days a year.

I look forward to seeing what everyone has as suggestions

Thanks again!

Tarn.


----------



## Renleux

Playstation said:


> Do open backs create the best sound for gaming?
> 
> Do closed backs sound/feel claustrophobic?
> 
> ...


I'd recommend the Sennheiser HD 560s for less than 200 dollars. You need a Dac/amp to run this. They have an incredible Soundstage, very neutral sound. 
There is a YouTube video explaining how good they are in competitive level. 
(sorry if my English is not the best).


----------



## Chastity

tarn said:


> Hi everyone, I am new here
> 
> I looked around, used the search and found that this sub forum is the place to go for the questions iv been stuck on for the past few days
> 
> ...


Since you want to use a Multimedia controller, then you need to go consumer soundcard.  Buy a refurbished G6 from Creative's online store; this will be in your price range and can drive the HD-58X well.  They sell for $79 USD here in US.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey Guys, I hope to have the GC7 Review written by the end of the weekend. Sorry for the long delay. Life gets in the way.


----------



## matbil0

HieroX said:


> Is it any much different from the X3 though?


any news about the Sound Blaster X4?


----------



## Jcor

matbil0 said:


> any news about the Sound Blaster X4?


I've been looking for something to use with my PS5 and was interested in getting an X4, but haven't seen any reviews yet.

A b-stock X3 can be bought from the Creative website for about €80 so if there's not much difference between the 2 that'll be much better value.


----------



## HieroX (Jul 15, 2021)

Jcor said:


> I've been looking for something to use with my PS5 and was interested in getting an X4, but haven't seen any reviews yet.
> 
> A b-stock X3 can be bought from the Creative website for about €80 so if there's not much difference between the 2 that'll be much better value.


I doubt it will be much different from the X3. What I heard was that the X4 will be using the new Creative App. It was on their Reddit page.

I used the X3 previously though. Lots of bugs, some of them deal breaking. The major one was a DSP issue with SXFi(where the sounds were severely distorted, and it sounds nowhere near the SXFi amp), and that took months before they resolved it.


----------



## Jcor

HieroX said:


> I doubt it will be much different from the X3. What I heard was that the X4 will be using the new Creative App. It was on their Reddit page.
> 
> I used the X3 previously though. Lots of bugs, some of them deal breaking. The major one was a DSP issue with SXFi(where the sounds were severely distorted, and it sounds nowhere near the SXFi amp), and that took months before they resolved it.


That doesn't sound too appealing. Shiit seem to be having issues with the Fulla 4 and Hel 2 as well. I've read a few people have had to return them.


----------



## Playstation

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hey Guys, I hope to have the GC7 Review written by the end of the weekend. Sorry for the long delay. Life gets in the way.


Have you tried the Beyer Amiron Home? Supposedly they produce a harsh sound for words starting/ending with the letter S, kind of like the X2HR's do. I am curious to know just how bad it is, can EQ soften it up enough. Additionally, in the sound department, would you say that I would like the sound, considering I don't dislike the sound of the X2HR's. I read another review, about the X2HR's not being of high fidelity, and the bass being muddy.  Also, the reason I didn't stick the the Senns HD6xx, is at the time the mini loki's were hard to get, and Senns aren't as comfortable as I like.


----------



## illram

Congrats MLE!

Re: the X4, will this be the device that finally let's us output SXFI via the optical out? Probably not...but a man can dream!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Creative rep said she forwarded that message of wanting SXFI through optical on the GC7, so I hope they're moving their butts for it. Lol.

@Playstation 

Unfortunately I have not. It's been awhile since I've heard a Beyer.


----------



## Playstation

i realize i might have to go with a relatively flat response and eq from there. so, what about a headphone recommendation with the sound quality of the hd5xx/hd6xx, with the comfort of Beyers/Fedilios? for around $500 or lower


----------



## Playstation

how do the hifiman 400's compare sound wise with the HD6xx? hifiman look like they might be more comfortable than Senns


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 16, 2021)

I think once you stretch out the 6XX's, they're among the best in comfort. Is it the clam?, because if it's the clamp, definitely stretch it out over a pillow a night or two. Or while you're at work or something. It helps DRASTICALLY. The 400s were a bit heavy, but I'm talking og Rev. 2. I dunno now. They felt good overall, but def not 6XX good. I dunno, maybe AKG K7XX is good comfort. Just going off my experience with the K702 Anniversary.


----------



## DenverW

Playstation said:


> Have you tried the Beyer Amiron Home? Supposedly they produce a harsh sound for words starting/ending with the letter S, kind of like the X2HR's do. I am curious to know just how bad it is, can EQ soften it up enough. Additionally, in the sound department, would you say that I would like the sound, considering I don't dislike the sound of the X2HR's. I read another review, about the X2HR's not being of high fidelity, and the bass being muddy.  Also, the reason I didn't stick the the Senns HD6xx, is at the time the mini loki's were hard to get, and Senns aren't as comfortable as I like.



I've used the amiron homes for gaming quite a bit in the past and found them very good for their current used price.  Clamp force is lighter and they're very comfortable.  They also have good soundstage and image placement imho.  I'm not sensitive to treble so I can't speak to sibilance that you're mentioning, other than I did not find them harsh.  I was running them off a good tube amp, which may have lessened the treble effect as well.  YMMV .


----------



## Playstation (Jul 17, 2021)

I ordered the hifiman he4xx. I believe they will be comfortable, and i'll just EQ the sound. it will be my first planar, and i believe it's likely a decent entry-level planar.

The next thing I want after the hifimans are some extremely comfortable closed back, with strong, extending bass.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm still pushing onward with the Creative GC7 review, so don't worry, it's coming. Just taking a little longer. What I have left are...

Photos and Screenshots to take for multiple sections
Connectivity section
Microphone Recordings
Personal Recommendations (partly written)
Likes and Dislikes section
Final Impressions section

For the most part, the hardest sections are *done*, so I anticipate a few more days and for the writing to go more smoothly, depending on how I feel. I only get a few hours of free time to do this, while I'm in the middle of a packing up for a move to don't know where yet and work, so bear with me.


----------



## Droccord

@Mad Lust Envy are you planning to review the Emu Teaks in the future at some point?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2021)

Droccord said:


> @Mad Lust Envy are you planning to review the Emu Teaks in the future at some point?


Unfortunately, I had to sell them, so I won't be able to review them at this point in time. I was planning on trading them up for an LCD-2C (to bring up my memories of the old LCD2s I had), that I never went through with it due to financial reasons. That, but also that I'm now able to more or less test out whatever Audeze headphones I'd like within reason. I had tested the LCD2C and I realized they were leather-free (faux leather) pads, and I personally prefer leather instead, so I'd have aimed up towards LCD2 or LCDX instead.

What I can say is that the Teak were exactly what I wanted as something to a Denon D7000 successor, and were excellent in their price range. If you're looking into the Teak, they're great and I have no qualms about recommending them to people that are more basshead than neutral. The wood cups give a nice tonal character as well.

I just wanted to go back to my favorite planars, really.


----------



## Droccord

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Unfortunately, I had to sell them, so I won't be able to review them at this point in time. I was planning on trading them up for an LCD-2C (to bring up my memories of the old LCD2s I had), that I never went through with it due to financial reasons. That, but also that I'm now able to more or less test out whatever Audeze headphones I'd like within reason. I had tested the LCD2C and I realized they were leather-free (faux leather) pads, and I personally prefer leather instead, so I'd have aimed up towards LCD2 or LCDX instead.
> 
> What I can say is that the Teak were exactly what I wanted as something to a Denon D7000 successor, and were excellent in their price range. If you're looking into the Teak, they're great and I have no qualms about recommending them to people that are more basshead than neutral. The wood cups give a nice tonal character as well.
> 
> I just wanted to go back to my favorite planars, really.


I already have the Teaks, and love them. They're definitely my favorite headphones out of everything I've tried. I'm just always interested in your impressions and reviews on headphones, I was just curious. I was actually looking into trying out a planar headphone. I was thinking about the LCD2C or the LCDX or a ZMF VC. But I've seen mixed reviews saying that they could be very natural and boring and not engaging or fun. I definitely like when a headphone has some feel of the bass and not just the sound of bass if that makes sense. I take it you'll probably have reviews of the LCD 2 and LCDX at some point?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Since I recently started to work at Audeze, it wouldn't feel right to do a review of any of the products.

It's been a blessing for my personal life, but perhaps not the best deal for the guide, lol. I will be doing first looks for future Audeze products, but in terms of outright reviews, not sure that's in the best interest for the guide, the company, or you guys.

As far as LCDs/Planars, I'm sure there's got to be one that suits you.

I'll be receiving the LCD-X (as well as GX though I already reviewed them) in the next few days, and though I can't be biased and give you impressions, I can at least give you an unbiased description of what it sounds like to my ears.

The LCDX is an extremely popular headphone even here on Head-fi, if that counts for anything.

I can think of all the headphones in the world, and there will always be groups that hate or loves them. We all have our tastes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2021)

Guys, I  feel like my GC7 review is bloated, and I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't cut down on explaining software down to every main option. Do I really need to mention what bass boost does? Or Scout Mode? Or literally anything people can't just look at in the product guide?

I feel like I'm just filling up the review with filler. And the software is literally one of the longest sections to write.

Some feedback would be welcome.

As an update: I've written every section other than connectivity, and need to do screengrabs/photos, editing. So the vast majority of the review is done.

If you guys think a 5 minute to read review is easy to write...boy do I have something to tell you. It takes me many hours over multiple days.


----------



## dandiego

I think considering your general audience on here (enthusiasts who care about the details and nuances of a product), a longer review is just fine, if not preferred.  I don't think anyone should complain about reading about features, etc. they're already familiar with -- and for those that aren't, it will be an informative read.  Not to mention this is a written review, not some YouTube video where the duration definitely does matter in terms of audience engagement.

Looking forward to reading it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2021)

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

I feel I either don't write enough and start rambling or going ham on details that aren't necessarily, or write too much, and then under develop a section. It's a tough balance. Lol 

Great thing is that its mostly done. I just have to look over some things as I'm someone who tends to repeat things. I think I've said that I'm disappointed that SXFI doesn't pass through digitally like 5-6 times. 🤣

I'm starting to wonder if I should coin the term Pre-dac for the DACs we use that we just send stuff like virtual surround, or bass boosting, or EQ digitally to other dacs.


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
> 
> I feel I either don't write enough and start rambling or going ham on details that aren't necessarily, or write too much, and then under develop a section. It's a tough balance. Lol
> 
> ...


I feel like you should add it to the extent it matters on your opinion of the product. Or even, the fact that so many "features" exist, might be part of your opinion, i.e. there's too many, or they're all great, or whatever. I mean I know I personally found the feature set kind of bloated, i.e. I don't use most of it and some of it is confusingly redundant... but that's just me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 20, 2021)

I've said something similar in the review, something along the lines of overwhelmed, Lol.

I essentially start off saying Creative has thrown everything but the kitchen sink. More or less.

And yeah, like you have EQ, bass boost, clarity enhancer, AND scout mode.

I mean they're like all doing different aspects of the same thing.

I dunno why they do all this, but I guess there are people that just dunno how to EQ, so having a bass boost setting, etc, makes it easy to understand. And general gamers don't tend to be that smart, lol.

I think it's just Creative trying to cater to all sorts, even though it bloats the software.


----------



## matbil0

buyed the sound blaster X4, we will see how does it compare to the G6


----------



## trix3072

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've said something similar in the review, something along the lines of overwhelmed, Lol.
> 
> I essentially start off saying Creative has thrown everything but the kitchen sink. More or less.
> 
> ...


Hey MLE, I'm thinking of buying the Schiit Hel 2 as an desktop dac/amp as well as gaming solution. My previous dac/amps were Astro Mixamp, steelseries GameDAC and Soundblaster GC7. The Hel 2 seems to have the headset's mic gain control.  But what I want to know is whether the Hel 2 supports Game sound/Chat balance control, which the Mixamp and the GC7 have. This feature is called in various terms 'chatmix' 'Gamevoice mix'and etc. Does the Hel 2 have this feature too?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

trix3072 said:


> Hey MLE, I'm thinking of buying the Schiit Hel 2 as an desktop dac/amp as well as gaming solution. My previous dac/amps were Astro Mixamp, steelseries GameDAC and Soundblaster GC7. The Hel 2 seems to have the headset's mic gain control.  But what I want to know is whether the Hel 2 supports Game sound/Chat balance control, which the Mixamp and the GC7 have. This feature is called in various terms 'chatmix' 'Gamevoice mix'and etc. Does the Hel 2 have this feature too?


The Hel 2 does not have that feature. Just a proper USB/Optical DAC, and headphone amp with analog output, and mic gain. That's it.


----------



## Chastity

@Mad Lust Envy 
The Creative Software Suite has been discussed to death.  I would just list the feature set, and then focus on what makes it unique to other iterations, like any SXFi Support it may have, and whether it supports it over optical.  One thing to note is whether the optical out can do more than 24/48. (This was a hard ceiling on the G6)

Also, a device/dsp to provide surround processing to be fed to a DAC is a "Virtualizer", not a Pre-DAC


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

But what is said Virtualizer is already a DAC itself? Lol.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> But what is said Virtualizer is already a DAC itself? Lol.


It may be a DAC, but only if it does the digital to analog conversion, otherwise it's just a DSP.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Very true.

But I like the idea of calling it a Pre-Dacifier


----------



## Chastity

https://embody.co/pages/gaming-beyerdynamic/

I thought this was cute.  I should grab the 2 week trial and see how it fares against the other VSS solutions.  Tho that annual sub thing... ugh.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Nice, keep us posted.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chastity said:


> https://embody.co/pages/gaming-beyerdynamic/
> 
> I thought this was cute.  I should grab the 2 week trial and see how it fares against the other VSS solutions.  Tho that annual sub thing... ugh.


If it's good, that 7 year plan is pretty good. 7 years is a hell of a long time. Could be as good as Redscape which is what, $40?

If and when I have a game to play with VSS, I'll try the trial myself. Right now I'm playing Ys IX which is stereo only. And it's taking me forever to find the time to play lol.


----------



## Fegefeuer

So you are telling us that all non-"stereo only" games just magically dissappeared from your harddisk, Mad Lust Envy of Head-Fi.org?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> So you are telling us that all non-"stereo only" games just magically dissappeared from your harddisk, Mad Lust Envy of Head-Fi.org?


Lol, I mean SURE I can test WZ. 

Yeesh. Tough crowd. 

TBH, due to personal life matters, I just don't have much time to play atm. I only have ample time on weekends, and this weekend I'm gonna be staying in hotels for the immediate future so not sure how I'm gonna go about lugging my PC around.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Me neither, unfortunately. I finished Days Gone after a few months but it was very worth it. I really loved that game and played it intensely, no feeling of rush. Taking my time. I have 18 months of learning and exams etc. behind me, thus I am counting on autumn to bring me back into it. Summer is not the best time to play much anyway.

Oh, and looking forward to your take on the Beyerdynamic app.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I find that after work I'm like too tired to game, and by the time I get up, it's time for me to get ready for work.

How do people do 9 to 5s, go home, make dinner, deal with spouses/children, and THEN find enough free time for themselves, lol.

I'm single and I'm like I HAVE NO TIME FOR MYSELF LOL


----------



## Chastity (Jul 21, 2021)

My initial review of Immerse Gaming VSS:

First off, it doesn't matter which application / manufacturer you go with, as it will only affect how the GUI looks.  Beyerdynamic one has a Beyer theme, in blacks/greys/orange, and the Logi one in Logi Blue/Black.  So pick the one you plan on subbing for, or prefer the theme.     As for the sound, it's got some nice positional audio when gaming.  For 5.1 music, it's mostly fail.  Redscape does a much better job with this.

To calibrate, you take a photo of your right ear using a link for your phone, and it gets stored on your cloud profile.  Then you get the option to choose one of the 3 modes, which is nearfield, medium, and wide.  Close Combat (nearfield) is fine for Action RPG's where you fight up front and personal.  The Immerse (Medium) is your FPS setting, and gives good cues for distance, and has a good differental between side and rear.  Clarity (wide) is not a personal favorite, but is intended for MMO / Explore gaming.

I also prefer FPS for movie watching, tho it still doesn't beat Dolby/DTS:X apps.  (What can I say, it's their encoding system)

If you game in Borderless mode, it also sports a CHEEEEEZE Sonar Mode UI overlay that will highlight enemies.

It also has a nice feature you can opt on/off.  It can dynamically change the audio profile for 5.1 / 7.1 based on audio feed.  This is nice since 5.1 rears is more of a middle ground between 7.1's side and rear.  You can also cycle through the 3 modes with Alt-4, which is nice to do while in the game itself, to see which model works best.

Of the 3 modes, Close Combat is great if you want impact.  Everything is essentially in your face, and lots of detail.  Not great if you need distance cues.  Immerse and Clarity offer better distance cues, with Immerse having better range dynamics based on distance, whereas Clarity keeps the volume for distance cues more subtle and more diffused. I was testing using a spot I like to use in NWN2, since it has a good sound source that is fixed, and the game is using DirectSound 7 Pan & Scan, which is pretty simple stuff, so all the VSS HRTF is mostly from the VSS app.  You can also control the apps volume, and the output DAC's volume right in the Immerse app.

I would have liked to see more adjustments.  In Settings, you can increase the Mode's Width (1, 2, 3), but seems to only affect Clarity mode.  I would have preferred to be able to tweak the timings of the HRTF to better match my own noggin, tho I suppose they can get that info from the head pic.

Overall, it's not a bad choice, but limited to essentially only gaming.  Compared to Redscape and Waves NX, I have to give teh nod to Redscape.  It's Room Acoustics and Reflections model really can make some of the audio cues very realistic, especially with multiple sources, and how they relate to each other in distance.  It also has my preferred relation of dynamic range in volume in regards to distance cues.  (Close is nice and loud like Close Combat Mode in Immerse, and yet you also get distance cues)  So between the three, I suggest Redscape, with the added bonus is the license if for lifetime.  However, I do suggest you personally try them out yourself, and calibrate all three to properly compare.  What works best for me may not be best for you.

UPDATE:  I went ahead and tested using my DT-1990 on the Immerse for BeyerD edition, and it got a lot better.  So either the cans are better than my M1070, or they are using a preset for the BeyerD House signature.  So I uninstalled the app, and installed the HIVE version, which allows you to select your headphone maker, or choose Generic IEM, Open or Closed headphone.  Since they have an Audeze GX profile, I will try that with the M1070.  The HIVE version has no BeyerD choices.  They need to consolidate this!

UPDATE 2:  They are doing EQ profiles for named headsets, but the selection leaves much to be desired if you aren't using a gamer headset.  LCD-GX and Penrose users will be happy.  The Sennheiser options are all their GSP sets.  I found my own EQ + Generic Openback works well, has a lot of spaciousness.  The LCD-GX profile on my M1070 sounded more soundstage restricted and a tad darker.  So yeah, if you use Beyerdynamics, get the BeyerD edition, and there's an ATH Edition and a Logitech Edition.

I still like Redscape tho.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Lol, I mean SURE I can test WZ.
> 
> Yeesh. Tough crowd.
> 
> TBH, due to personal life matters, I just don't have much time to play atm. I only have ample time on weekends, and this weekend I'm gonna be staying in hotels for the immediate future so not sure how I'm gonna go about lugging my PC around.


Your PS5 is getting good use don’t worry about that ^^


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 21, 2021)

NiGHTS4EVA said:


> Your PS5 is getting good use don’t worry about that ^^


You better say good BYE SATURDAY.

Actually, YOU BETTER PLAY WITH ME TONIGHT


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, I find that after work I'm like too tired to game, and by the time I get up, it's time for me to get ready for work.
> 
> How do people do 9 to 5s, go home, make dinner, deal with spouses/children, and THEN find enough free time for themselves, lol.
> 
> I'm single and I'm like I HAVE NO TIME FOR MYSELF LOL


I don't know. Tell me if you find out how they have enough free time. I barely have any holiday from work and take care of my kids after the work. I used to play 20+ hours per week. Now I'm lucky if I can play 2 hours per week. 

Sold my PS5 and build custom watercooled PC for my work and gaming (200+ fps 1440p WZ). Maybe some day I can play CoD trio with my boys


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Lay. said:


> I don't know. Tell me if you find out how they have enough free time. I barely have any holiday from work and take care of my kids after the work. I used to play 20+ hours per week. Now I'm lucky if I can play 2 hours per week.
> 
> Sold my PS5 and build custom watercooled PC for my work and gaming (200+ fps 1440p WZ). Maybe some day I can play CoD trio with my boys


Damn if only I knew you before you sold it lol, I’m still trying to find one 😭


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 22, 2021)

Lay. said:


> I don't know. Tell me if you find out how they have enough free time. I barely have any holiday from work and take care of my kids after the work. I used to play 20+ hours per week. Now I'm lucky if I can play 2 hours per week.
> 
> Sold my PS5 and build custom watercooled PC for my work and gaming (200+ fps 1440p WZ). Maybe some day I can play CoD trio with my boys



She's a sexy beast. I'm too chicken to go water-cooling, so I stuck a big hunking chunk of metal (Dark Rock Pro 3) as my CPU cooler. It never comes close to approaching 70c. But my 2080ti is definitely starting to warm up. It's now hitting 80c. Last year it was 78c. I'm holding out until 4080/ti though. 2080ti is still serving me well at 1440p.


I may dabble in closed-loop water cooled GPU (like a SeaHawk), since I care more about that than more than my CPU temps which just don't go anywhere. Though DRP3 is a pain to install, so I might get a Noctua D15S next time. I'd need to rebuild, since my mobo is acting up and no matter what I do, always boots to drive selection on boot.


----------



## Lay.

Mad Lust Envy said:


> She's a sexy beast. I'm too chicken to go water-cooling, so I stuck a big hunking chunk of metal (Dark Rock Pro 3) as my CPU cooler. It never comes close to approaching 70c. But my 2080ti is definitely starting to warm up. It's now hitting 80c. Last year it was 78c. I'm holding out until 4080/ti though. 2080ti is still serving me well at 1440p.
> 
> 
> I may dabble in closed-loop water cooled GPU (like a SeaHawk), since I care more about that than more than my CPU temps which just don't go anywhere. Though DRP3 is a pain to install, so I might get a Noctua D15S next time. I'd need to rebuild, since my mobo is acting up and no matter what I do, always boots to drive selection on boot.



Thank You. I started with AIO water cooler for my CPU about 6 years ago. I was mostly impressed how much I could lower the fan noise when combining big fans, relatively low rpm and water cooling. There was no turning back 

Now I have everything (CPU, GPU, Memory, Display...) overclocked and temps are usually around 50-65c. There are 2 radiators (360 & 280) and 8 fans (max 70% rpm) that are controlled based on water temperature. There is no real need to go crazy with overclocking and cooling, but it sure is fun. Closed loop coolers are nice gateway to the custom loop cooling


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Lay. said:


> Thank You. I started with AIO water cooler for my CPU about 6 years ago. I was mostly impressed how much I could lower the fan noise when combining big fans, relatively low rpm and water cooling. There was no turning back
> 
> Now I have everything (CPU, GPU, Memory, Display...) overclocked and temps are usually around 50-65c. There are 2 radiators (360 & 280) and 8 fans (max 70% rpm) that are controlled based on water temperature. There is no real need to go crazy with overclocking and cooling, but it sure is fun. Closed loop coolers are nice gateway to the custom loop cooling


The only fans that I hear in my system are the GPU fans. The DRP3 and my case fans are all Be Quiet Silent Wings fans. If Iremove my gpu, I probably wouldn't know if my PC is on over my ambient room noise (ceiling fan).


----------



## duranxv

Ok, so I caved in and finally bought Redscape, lol (without the head tracker).  What's the best way to configure the head width, ear size and room setting?  Do I have to take measurements or just play around with the settings until it sounds right?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 25, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Ok, so I caved in and finally bought Redscape, lol (without the head tracker).  What's the best way to configure the head width, ear size and room setting?  Do I have to take measurements or just play around with the settings until it sounds right?


I leave all those settings alone personally. The default of those are fine for me.

The only things I change are the surround/room dial to something near like 3 o' clock.

Make sure not to push volume past the notch next to the dial, as it may clip the sound.

Other than that, make sure the Redscape in windows sound control panel is set to 7.1 speakers.


----------



## Qupie

Just checking to be sure: 

You can use G6 to take USB from PS5 and get it in stereo format through optical out into another DAC, right? 

Had to send back my hel 2, and while I am very content with my new stack (SMSL SU9 + Singxer SA1) gaming on dual sense feels lackluster.


----------



## Jcor

Qupie said:


> Just checking to be sure:
> 
> You can use G6 to take USB from PS5 and get it in stereo format through optical out into another DAC, right?
> 
> Had to send back my hel 2, and while I am very content with my new stack (SMSL SU9 + Singxer SA1) gaming on dual sense feels lackluster.


Why did you have to send your Hel 2 back? I've seen a couple of posts saying the PS5 stopped recognising it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sorry I meant to edit my last post, not double post.



Jcor said:


> Why did you have to send your Hel 2 back? I've seen a couple of posts saying the PS5 stopped recognising it.


Apparently there's a USB issue with the Fulla 4 and Hel 2 where some devices stop recognizing them. The Fulla 4 I reviewed did this very recently, though it still works on a family PC which was where I was going to use for in the first place. The PS5 will not pick it up.

The Hel 2 still works for everything, but the optical has some issues, which I was ensured will be fixed with a firmware update sooner than later.

My Jotunheim 2 has a balanced headphone jack issue where the left channel is fuzzy and distorted, and I have to send that in.  Just happened yesterday.

I love Schiit, but the pandemic has made things rather hard on their end. I trust them to fix things, so I'll be patient.

For now, I'm on a Modius/Vali 2+ as my main gear.



Qupie said:


> Just checking to be sure:
> 
> You can use G6 to take USB from PS5 and get it in stereo format through optical out into another DAC, right?
> 
> Had to send back my hel 2, and while I am very content with my new stack (SMSL SU9 + Singxer SA1) gaming on dual sense feels lackluster.


Yes, the G6 in this instance will act as the UAC1 device. Then you can send the signal it to a better DAC through optical if you want.

I do this with my Modius which can't accept UAC1.

So PS5 - G6 - Modius (optical input) - amp

Just remember to turn off SBX as you only get stereo from PS5 usb.


----------



## Qupie (Jul 25, 2021)

My Hel 2 had some minor popping/stuttering issues sadly. Most common on pc with varying bitrates (Qobuz mixed playlists).

Schiit couldn't replace it because they need to figure out what went wrong with it (lots of people had issues they didn't catch in QC) They are not producing more Hel or fulla till they figured it out. They gave me a complete refund + refund or shipping both ways (to EU!). So they handled it really really well. It sounded really good for the price too. So if you are not in a hurry, I can still recommend it. It will take a couple of months though I assume


----------



## MarkDraconian

duranxv said:


> Ok, so I caved in and finally bought Redscape, lol (without the head tracker).  What's the best way to configure the head width, ear size and room setting?  Do I have to take measurements or just play around with the settings until it sounds right?


I just move the head width slide a little for the right and when the audio is more clear and well defined i stop. At default it sounds kind of diffuse and less clear for me. I'm not sure if this is really correct but i use the "sounds good and OK for me" logic.
I leave ear size at default.
And about room size i just use the defaults there for music, or movie mode for movies.
For Waves NX is useful to measure the head with a tape but for Redscape is more a play with the settings thing.


----------



## duranxv

Also another question on Redscape:  In the sound settings, I can only go up to 44.1 khz.  If I go higher, I don't hear any sound.  Am I doing something wrong?  In the Redscape settings, I have it at Exclusive: 24 bit 96khz


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Also another question on Redscape:  In the sound settings, I can only go up to 44.1 khz.  If I go higher, I don't hear any sound.  Am I doing something wrong?  In the Redscape settings, I have it at Exclusive: 24 bit 96khz


I use shared mode 32/96


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> I use shared mode 32/96



Hmm, now I have a weird issue...

Redscape isn't outputting any sound except for the center, left side, and right side channels - no other channels.  I've tried everything  (uninstalling and reinstalling), changing the bit rates, latencies, buffers, etc.  I even double checked to make sure my Bifrost 2 was working, and I have no problems there.  For some reason, Redscape just won't work anymore.  It was working perfectly fine yesterday, and now it just simply isn't...

Has anyone else dealt with this issue?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 26, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Hmm, now I have a weird issue...
> 
> Redscape isn't outputting any sound except for the center, left side, and right side channels - no other channels.  I've tried everything  (uninstalling and reinstalling), changing the bit rates, latencies, buffers, etc.  I even double checked to make sure my Bifrost 2 was working, and I have no problems there.  For some reason, Redscape just won't work anymore.  It was working perfectly fine yesterday, and now it just simply isn't...
> 
> Has anyone else dealt with this issue?


Have you gone to windows sound settings setting and made sure its outputting to 7.1?

This is on the G6, but just make sure it's Redscape ofc. I don't have it installed on my work PC.

Also make sure the bitrate doesn't exceed 48khz on Redscape.





Always make sure you when you're not using Redscape, to NOT have the Redscape program be set to the device you're using. So if you wanna use Bifrost without Redscape, aim the Redscape program to default to something else, like Realtek sound or whatever you don't normally use. If you leave it on the Bifrost, it may mute the output if it's in exclusive mode. Me, I just rather play it safe and set Redscape as affecting something I'm NOT using. Only putting on the device when I know I'm gonna use Redscape.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Have you gone to windows sound settings setting and made sure its outputting to 7.1?
> 
> This is on the G6, but just make sure it's Redscape ofc. I don't have it installed on my work PC.
> 
> ...



Ok, I figured out the problem finally.  Apparently if you mess with the dB sliders in the "Speakers" tab in the Settings, it will mess the sound up once you reboot your computer.  So, in order to fix it, you have to reset all the sliders back to 0 dB, and then you can modify once more.  I basically lowered the dB on the L, R, LS and RS speakers so that my diagonal cues are more distinct vs the side and center channels.

Is there any difference between Exclusive and Shared mode? And any benefit doing one vs the other?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 27, 2021)

Exclusive mode will have lower latency, so less sound lag, though I can't tell (it's only about 1 1/2 frame difference, which is essentially instantaneous), so I use Shared when I can. Exclusive will take over whatever source you select, so if you set, say a G6 as the device for Redscape, you can't use the G6 as a normal sound device/without Redscape. It'll stay muted until you either select shared mode, or switch Redscape to another device.

In terms of sound latency, for comparison, Apt X low latency is over 40ms difference. Shared mode in Redscape is 25ms I believe. So less lag than even the low latency version if AptX.


----------



## Playstation

I've been using the he4xx now for a few days. they are pretty comfortable, however they do clamp until the x2hr's which have no clamp.

is there a safe, effective way to loosen said clamp?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If the 4XX is anything like the HE-400, there is a piece of metal instead that headband. You can bend the headband outwards a little to reduce clamp. Don't be afraid.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Exclusive mode will have lower latency, so less sound lag, though I can't tell (it's only about 1 1/2 frame difference, which is essentially instantaneous), so I use Shared when I can. Exclusive will take over whatever source you select, so if you set, say a G6 as the device for Redscape, you can't use the G6 as a normal sound device/without Redscape. It'll stay muted until you either select shared mode, or switch Redscape to another device.
> 
> In terms of sound latency, for comparison, Apt X low latency is over 40ms difference. Shared mode in Redscape is 25ms I believe. So less lag than even the low latency version if AptX.



Cool! Thanks!


----------



## AudioManNewb

@Mad Lust Envy or anyone that has insight hopefully you can help me with this decision. I am looking to get a open backed. I have narrowed it down to these 3 the K612 Pro or K701/702 or K7XX. I love playing competitively but also love music and will do some acoustic guitar recording. Which of these would be a good choice. I am leaning toward the K612.


----------



## Playstation (Jul 28, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If the 4XX is anything like the HE-400, there is a piece of metal instead that headband. You can bend the headband outwards a little to reduce clamp. Don't be afraid.


yeah it's a thin metal ribbon/band that appears to be wrapped in genuine leather. I guess my only concern is over bending. Isn't it easier to bend it outward versus inward? for the sake of education. can you refer me to any good guides on remedying over bending?

Also, those plastic caps. Do they come off? What happens if one breaks? What is the point of having the nice metal if those plastic caps hold everything together?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Playstation said:


> yeah it's a thin metal ribbon/band that appears to be wrapped in genuine leather. I guess my only concern is over bending. Isn't it easier to bend it outward versus inward? for the sake of education. can you refer me to any good guides on remedying over bending?
> 
> Also, those plastic caps. Do they come off? What happens if one breaks? What is the point of having the nice metal if those plastic caps hold everything together?


If anything is resilient on those HFMs, it's the headband.

You can use a folded pillow to stretch it out overnight or so.

To bend it back for more clamp, just hold the headband and cross the cups.

The plastic puck piece is just a cover. It's not holding anything. The underlying piece is. I've had one of the pucks come off on the HE400. I used superglue and it never came off again.


----------



## Qupie (Jul 29, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Sorry I meant to edit my last post, not double post.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a USB issue with the Fulla 4 and Hel 2 where some devices stop recognizing them. The Fulla 4 I reviewed did this very recently, though it still works on a family PC which was where I was going to use for in the first place. The PS5 will not pick it up.
> ...


When you disable the SBX the whole Surround/crystalizer/bass/smart vol/dialog are disabled then, correct?

Toying with it now, any other settings you can advice on? I wanted to put some form of a EQ in there for warzone footsteps. Anything else that could be helpfull? The phisical buttons on the G6 should all be not blinking, right?

Sadly after upgrading to the latest software, the EQ seems to be connected to the SBX. If I enable one, so does the other. So right now I have just put surround at 0 in SBX, and diabled the other sliders. That should hopefully not interfere with the sound too much.

Am I blind or does the EQ not work on optical out? (I only see an SPDIF-out Direct Mode).
Nevermind, it works. Seems like it detects whether there is an analogue or optical cable detected?

Still not sure the EQ works, but I think it does (no way to check when connected to PS5 I guess) but it sounds pretty good.

Edit: after playing a few games, I have a feeling it helps quite a bit. I can finally hear footsteps in this game with my Clear MG


----------



## js8mc123

Hi Friends,
Looking for guidance on the best way to take advantage of the g6 with a ps5 paired with two pairs of focal headphones (an original clear and a Celestee) for games and movies. This is in a home theater setup where the ps5 will be about 15-20 ft from the seats so cable length is a consideration.
My local dealer recommended a chord mojo for the dual headphone output so our first try was to connect the mojo to our receiver (a lexicon rv-9) through zone 2 and analog to digital converter with an optical cable. The sound quality was really poor through all connected devices (ps5, Apple TV, xbox). Comparing to a pair of inexpensive headphones plugged directly into the ps5 controller, the inexpensive headphones sounded much better than the focals for both games and movies/shows. This lead me down a rabbit hole and I found the sound blaster g6 as it was listed as a compatible dac with the ps5.
Since the g6 can’t power both focal headphones (my wife and I will have a new little one and a guest at the house so we’d like to both be able to listen at the same time without disturbing anyone) I’m curious if there’s a way to connect the mojo’s amplification to power the headphones while still taking advantage of the g6 ps5 audio compatibility? If so, what audio cables plugged in in what order would generate the best sound quality? As they say on the interwebs, explain like I’m 5 (or at least someone who doesn’t quite grasp all this audio jargon).

Thanks in advance for any advice!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 29, 2021)

Qupie said:


> When you disable the SBX the whole Surround/crystalizer/bass/smart vol/dialog are disabled then, correct?
> 
> Toying with it now, any other settings you can advice on? I wanted to put some form of a EQ in there for warzone footsteps. Anything else that could be helpfull? The phisical buttons on the G6 should all be not blinking, right?
> 
> ...



SBX is the entire suite of adjustable options under Acoustic Engine, not just the surround. So, EQ, Bass Boost, Crystalizer, Smart Volume, etc.

If Scout Mode is blinking on the G6, that means you're in Direct mode. That turns off all extra processing (i.e. all of the Acoustic Engine). Basically the cleanest path. But in direct mode, you can't even use a mic. That's just raw stereo.

And ys, I just turn on surround, and leave everything else off when I'm gaming. When I listen to music, I go to the playback, make the channel option to 2 channel/stereo, and turn on direct mode. When I game, I set it back to 7.1, disable direct mode, and turn on only surround. That's just me. I feel the G6 pops and makes noises if you try to listen to 2 channel sources while 7.1 is engaged, hence why I set it to stereo when not gaming/listening to a 5.1 or 7.1 source.







js8mc123 said:


> Hi Friends,
> Looking for guidance on the best way to take advantage of the g6 with a ps5 paired with two pairs of focal headphones (an original clear and a Celestee) for games and movies. This is in a home theater setup where the ps5 will be about 15-20 ft from the seats so cable length is a consideration.
> My local dealer recommended a chord mojo for the dual headphone output so our first try was to connect the mojo to our receiver (a lexicon rv-9) through zone 2 and analog to digital converter with an optical cable. The sound quality was really poor through all connected devices (ps5, Apple TV, xbox). Comparing to a pair of inexpensive headphones plugged directly into the ps5 controller, the inexpensive headphones sounded much better than the focals for both games and movies/shows. This lead me down a rabbit hole and I found the sound blaster g6 as it was listed as a compatible dac with the ps5.
> Since the g6 can’t power both focal headphones (my wife and I will have a new little one and a guest at the house so we’d like to both be able to listen at the same time without disturbing anyone) I’m curious if there’s a way to connect the mojo’s amplification to power the headphones while still taking advantage of the g6 ps5 audio compatibility? If so, what audio cables plugged in in what order would generate the best sound quality? As they say on the interwebs, explain like I’m 5 (or at least someone who doesn’t quite grasp all this audio jargon).
> ...


Hmm

On your display/TV: go to the audio options, and set optical out to bitstream/dolby digital (if it even has the option).

TV - optical out - G6 optical input - G6 - optical out - Chord Mojo optical input - your headphones.

You may want to upgrade firmware, update, change your software options on the G6 with a computer first.

So on your G6's software program on PC, I would advise to turn off every setting except the surround setting, which you can use for dolby digital content from your TV (like movies and games). When you don't wanna use that, you can just press the SBX button on the G6 itself to turn it off.

Hope that helps.


----------



## js8mc123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SBX is the entire suite of adjustable options under Acoustic Engine, not just the surround. So, EQ, Bass Boost, Crystalizer, Smart Volume, etc.
> 
> If Scout Mode is blinking on the G6, that means you're in Direct mode. That turns off all extra processing (i.e. all of the Acoustic Engine). Basically the cleanest path. But in direct mode, you can't even use a mic. That's just raw stereo.
> 
> ...


Thank you!!! One thing I should have called out - this is in a projector setup so my options for audio are to run through the receiver or I can connect the ps5 directly to the G6. Does this change anything with your recommendation?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 29, 2021)

js8mc123 said:


> Thank you!!! One thing I should have called out - this is in a projector setup so my options for audio are to run through the receiver or I can connect the ps5 directly to the G6. Does this change anything with your recommendation?




You said the audio was bad on the receiver?


If so:

PS5 - USB - Creative G6 - Optical Out - Chord Mojo optical in.

Here I would leave the surround on G6 alone, since PS5 has 3D Audio option.

I would suggest you using the USB ports on the back of the PS5. Front ones are noisier, IMHO.


----------



## js8mc123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You said the audio was bad on the receiver?
> 
> 
> If so:
> ...


I’ll give that a shot! Thank you so much for the quick reply!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

No worries. I hope it all works out.


----------



## Playstation

are there any over-the-ear headphones more comfortable than Beyers dt 7,8,9, Fedilios, Senns hd598, Hifiman 400?


----------



## Qupie

Mad Lust Envy said:


> SBX is the entire suite of adjustable options under Acoustic Engine, not just the surround. So, EQ, Bass Boost, Crystalizer, Smart Volume, etc.
> 
> If Scout Mode is blinking on the G6, that means you're in Direct mode. That turns off all extra processing (i.e. all of the Acoustic Engine). Basically the cleanest path. But in direct mode, you can't even use a mic. That's just raw stereo.
> 
> And ys, I just turn on surround, and leave everything else off when I'm gaming. When I listen to music, I go to the playback, make the channel option to 2 channel/stereo, and turn on direct mode. When I game, I set it back to 7.1, disable direct mode, and turn on only surround. That's just me. I feel the G6 pops and makes noises if you try to listen to 2 channel sources while 7.1 is engaged, hence why I set it to stereo when not gaming/listening to a 5.1 or 7.1 source.



Thanks! Yeah I figured that is the only way to disable the SBX effects, but still keep the EQ. I disabled all individual sliders on the SBX page and put surround on 0. I think that disabled everything except for the EQ. I will only use it for gaming, so I just keep it this way. Only got 2.0 source (USB from PS5). So it is just an USB bridge with EQ right now. 

Loving it so far though! Now I have better gear, the G6 is pretty mediocre by itself as a DAC/AMP. Still great bang for the buck but simply inferior.


----------



## Qupie (Jul 30, 2021)

js8mc123 said:


> I’ll give that a shot! Thank you so much for the quick reply!!


The solution MLE provided is almost exactly the same thing I just did on my PS5. It works great. To add a little bit of information:

You will need to set up the G6 using the sound blaster command software on a computer, but for your use case, you really only need to do one thing if I understand correctly. Enable SPDIF-out Direct Mode in the "playback" tab. *ELI5 This makes sure the only thing the G6 does, is take digital audio from USB, and pass it through over the optical cable. Your Mojo will do the Digital to Analogue conversion (aka DAC)*

Since you need a 20 ft cable, I would do that as an optical cable between the G6 and Mojo. Optical cable has very little signal loss on longer distance. *ELI5 Optical cable uses light through a tube, it cannot get influenced by other electrical signals. *

Do not buy the absolutely cheapest optical cable you can find for this length, but don't let you fool into 3 digit cable prices either. A cable in the 20-50 price range should be fine. *ELI5 Very cheap cable might introduce problems, but expensive optical cables make no sense because it doesn't need shielding (since it isn't an electrical signal). *

Hope that helps


----------



## Chastity

js8mc123 said:


> I’ll give that a shot! Thank you so much for the quick reply!!


https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B011A8ZZ14

This cable turned out to be of very good quality, and been able to passthru 24/96 audio over SPDIF, and even 24/192 at times.  Also comes with the 3.5mm adapters on both ends.


----------



## pervysage

I picked up a pair of Koss KSC75 clip-ons just for the heck of it lol (but mostly because I wanted a headphone I can slip on while sleeping and not be bothered by it). But then I got to thinking I might give em' a whirl for gaming as well because that sensation of not having headphones on your head might be nice and I've heard pretty good things about the sound quality.

Going to be interesting to see if I can do a HPEQ measurement for them on the Realiser A16 (should be possible since they aren't IEM's and can comfortably sit on top of the measurement microphones while they are in your ear.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Looking for some basic setup advice on the Dolby Atmos app playing on Series X. What should I check or uncheck? I swap between a variety of headphones, Audio Technica 700x and I just bought the Steel Series 7x to use w/ both the XsX and PS5.


----------



## motorwayne

*Quick question:* I have some  HD800S's arriving next week and currently have my PC sound organised via a modded X-Fi Titanium HD going out through a JDS Atom and into my PC38X headset, will the JDS Atom still do the job and is there going to be any realworld difference if I replace the Atom with something like a Topping A30 Pro?

Cheers


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The HD800S is known to be one of those that really demands some good amplification. I don't know much of the Atom, but I would definitely look into investing into an amp known to be good with it.


----------



## Chastity (Aug 1, 2021)

motorwayne said:


> *Quick question:* I have some  HD800S's arriving next week and currently have my PC sound organised via a modded X-Fi Titanium HD going out through a JDS Atom and into my PC38X headset, will the JDS Atom still do the job and is there going to be any realworld difference if I replace the Atom with something like a Topping A30 Pro?
> 
> Cheers


If you are going to use the HD-800S, then look into upgrading your DAC and amp.  The JDS Atom amp  is a nice entry amp, but th equality of the HD-800S will scale with your gear improvement.  If on a budget, a Schiit Asgard 3 + DAC of your choice would be a nice budget option.  Even modded, my M300 MKII will trump the Titanium HD as a source.

On another note, I picked up a very nice set of TWS buds on Amazon, the Mpow M30's on the cheap.  They use 6mm diaphram drivers, have Bluetooth 5, IPX8, and use Harman Curve tuning,  I was rather surprised by the sound quality, a step up from the M5's I own.  And due to Amazon banning Mpow's retailer acct due to playing games with getting positive reviews, they changed their name, and is clearing out all their Mpow branded gear.  I bought these in black for $19.99 + 40% off coupon for a final price of $11.99.  I just don't care for their stock silicone tips, and will be swapping them for some memory foam tips.


----------



## motorwayne

Roger that, I looked for an Asgard locally but no supply. I ordered a Garage 1217 Horizon 3, looking forward to it. Re the Titanium, yeah I keep it because I prefer the CMSS for open world queues, feel most natural to me.



Chastity said:


> Even modded, my M300 MKII will trump the Titanium HD as a source.



Can you run me through how to keep CMSS with something like the M300? Is it possible?


----------



## Chastity

motorwayne said:


> Can you run me through how to keep CMSS with something like the M300? Is it possible?


You would need to have Headphone Mode enabled, and 7.1 in game, and have it come out the SPDIF port, which probably isn't an option.

I use products like Redscape and Waves NX for my HRTF gaming to my external DAC.


----------



## PurpleAngel

motorwayne said:


> *Quick question:* I have some  HD800S's arriving next week and currently have my PC sound organized via a modded X-Fi Titanium HD going out through a JDS Atom and into my PC38X headset, will the JDS Atom still do the job and is there going to be any real world difference if I replace the Atom with something like a Topping A30 Pro?
> 
> Cheers


That T-HD (Titanium-HD) makes a nice DAC (I myself would also disable the onboard audio, in the BIOS, but not a big deal).
I myself would consider replacing the Atom, with the Topping A30, but real world noticeable improvement (maybe?).


----------



## motorwayne

PurpleAngel said:


> That T-HD (Titanium-HD) makes a nice DAC (I myself would also disable the onboard audio, in the BIOS, but not a big deal).
> I myself would consider replacing the Atom, with the Topping A30, but real world noticeable improvement (maybe?).


Cheers for that, I kinda like the Jotunheim and the Lyr as possible replacement amps too, kinda like twins SS & Tube. I can't give up the T-HD until something actually better comes along, not convinced the software replacements are equal let alone better atm.


----------



## motorwayne

Yikes, Schiit back orders are NO ETA 😝


----------



## Rozzko

Hello
1) please tell how to run G6 in direct mode? I want to use it with ps5 to get tempest 3D audio. No sbx, only tempest! 
2) run ratchet and clank and in menu they said that 3D audio (tempest) work with headphones plug into controller or by pulse 3D headset. So it’s not working with external usb dac?(I mean creative G6)
3) I try to connect my headphones to controller in ratchet and clank, and I can said it’s not a bad sound. I don’t notice much difference between this and G6 connection


----------



## Playstation

@Mad Lust Envy 

so those plastic puck pieces we were talking about on the he4xx are actually how the beyerdynamic dt 770 pros are held together. what i experienced when extending the headband is the the metal notches can slide through the plastic. i was wonder if there is a mod that can prevent this from happening? i can provide picture as a reference if needed.


----------



## PurpleAngel

motorwayne said:


> *Quick question:* I have some  HD800S's arriving next week and currently have my PC sound organised via a modded X-Fi Titanium HD going out through a JDS Atom and into my PC38X headset, will the JDS Atom still do the job and is there going to be any realworld difference if I replace the Atom with something like a Topping A30 Pro?
> 
> Cheers


We can assume you have the external headphone amplifier (Atom) connected to the Ti-HD's RCA line-output jacks (best way) and not connecting the Atom's line-input to the Ti-HD headphone jack?


----------



## rickyday

Mad Lust Envy said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I0SI1SG/
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C9U3XI4/
> 
> ...


Im curious right now i have the 58x and dt880s i saw your review i dont see anything on the 58x. Do you think its worth getting dt990s because i can get them on sale for 100. I want a headphone thats good for  fps games, but also good for movies and music. Are the ones i have good enough or do you think going for the dt990s 560s or maybe 6xx is a good idea ?


----------



## Qupie

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> 1) please tell how to run G6 in direct mode? I want to use it with ps5 to get tempest 3D audio. No sbx, only tempest!
> 2) run ratchet and clank and in menu they said that 3D audio (tempest) work with headphones plug into controller or by pulse 3D headset. So it’s not working with external usb dac?(I mean creative G6)
> 3) I try to connect my headphones to controller in ratchet and clank, and I can said it’s not a bad sound. I don’t notice much difference between this and G6 connection


1) You are using the G6 as dac and amp in this case? Over USB from PS5? A long press on the Scout Mode button puts the G6 intro the Direct Mode, once the button is flashing means all the DSP is turned-off
2) It does work with external USB dac
3) Agreed, the G6 is a small upgrade but nothing major. Depends on your headphones too.



rickyday said:


> Im curious right now i have the 58x and dt880s i saw your review i dont see anything on the 58x. Do you think its worth getting dt990s because i can get them on sale for 100. I want a headphone thats good for  fps games, but also good for movies and music. Are the ones i have good enough or do you think going for the dt990s 560s or maybe 6xx is a good idea ?


If you already have 2 headphones, why do you still want to buy one that works for gaming, movies and music? Quite often, being good in one category makes it worse in another.

I would advice you to buy a headphone that is just exceptional for one category (since you have 3, why overlap?), or, move up a notch into a higher price bracket (DT1990 for example). Buying even more jack of all trades headphones in the 100-200 dollar range doesn't make sense imho.

I don't think the 990 will bring you much the 880 can't do.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The 990 is literally the 880 with the bass turned up to 8, and treble turned up to 11. With an EQ, you can mitigate that treble peak, and the 990 is excellent. If you don't EQ, the 880 is a much safer choice. The 990 treble is uh... prolific.


----------



## motorwayne

PurpleAngel said:


> We can assume you have the external headphone amplifier (Atom) connected to the Ti-HD's RCA line-output jacks (best way) and not connecting the Atom's line-input to the Ti-HD headphone jack?


Yep that is correct.


----------



## trix3072

Chastity said:


> If you are going to use the HD-800S, then look into upgrading your DAC and amp.  The JDS Atom amp  is a nice entry amp, but th equality of the HD-800S will scale with your gear improvement.  If on a budget, a Schiit Asgard 3 + DAC of your choice would be a nice budget option.  Even modded, my M300 MKII will trump the Titanium HD as a source.
> 
> On another note, I picked up a very nice set of TWS buds on Amazon, the Mpow M30's on the cheap.  They use 6mm diaphram drivers, have Bluetooth 5, IPX8, and use Harman Curve tuning,  I was rather surprised by the sound quality, a step up from the M5's I own.  And due to Amazon banning Mpow's retailer acct due to playing games with getting positive reviews, they changed their name, and is clearing out all their Mpow branded gear.  I bought these in black for $19.99 + 40% off coupon for a final price of $11.99.  I just don't care for their stock silicone tips, and will be swapping them for some memory foam tips.


I also have a similar question here. Could I get some DAC/AMP suggestions for my HD800s/8xx(in the future) too? I prefer a simple desk, so I'm thinking of the RME ADI 2 DAC, but I'm also interested in the Babyface Pro(which has a mic XLR input practical for gaming). Then I saw a video that the Monolith THX DACAMP provides better imaging and soundstage...and I'm having trouble choosing among them. My budget is about 1500$ for the DACAMP and I'm using the audio setup only for PC(Games, movies, music) Can I get some suggestions?


----------



## illram (Aug 6, 2021)

trix3072 said:


> I also have a similar question here. Could I get some DAC/AMP suggestions for my HD800s/8xx(in the future) too? I prefer a simple desk, so I'm thinking of the RME ADI 2 DAC, but I'm also interested in the Babyface Pro(which has a mic XLR input practical for gaming). Then I saw a video that the Monolith THX DACAMP provides better imaging and soundstage...and I'm having trouble choosing among them. My budget is about 1500$ for the DACAMP and I'm using the audio setup only for PC(Games, movies, music) Can I get some suggestions?


I have an HD800S and if I was looking for a new inexpensive but powerful and clean amp to use with it, I have always been very curious to try either of the THX amps from Monoprice or Massdrop, balanced.

Particularly if you are gaming, I feel like the return on expensive equipment diminishes a little given the options nowadays. Especially when you add in virtual surround DSPs.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> I have an HD800S and if I was looking for a new inexpensive but powerful and clean amp to use with it, I have always been very curious to try either of the THX amps from Monoprice or Massdrop, balanced.
> 
> Particularly if you are gaming, I feel like the return on expensive equipment diminishes a little given the options nowadays. Especially when you add in virtual surround DSPs.


I heard you don't want a THX amp with HD800s due to how clinical the amps are.

No Jotunheim or Lyr?


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I heard you don't want a THX amp with HD800s due to how clinical the amps are.
> 
> No Jotunheim or Lyr?


My understanding is both of those will work Jot 2 and Lyr 3. I have a Lyr 3 on order.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 6, 2021)

I have a Jot 2 being replaced, but if I didn't I'd go Lyr 3 myself. Going balanced is cool and all, but I think having the simplicity of SE, and the magic of tubes would really float my boat. Maybe next time...


----------



## High Fidelity (Aug 7, 2021)

I currently have the AKG K7XX headphones/ModMic 5.0 with a 2015 Astro Mixamp Pro and Schitt Magni 2 Uber that I use with a PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I will eventually be getting an Xbox Series X and without the optical port I am unsure how to get the same surround sound and mic functionality on my current setup.

From what I have read I believe my setup is obsolete with the new consoles. I know there is an hdmi adapter, but I don't think it will work with my Mixamp because I don't believe I can update the firmware, if there is even a firmware update for older Mixamps.

I want to continue using my AKG K7XX/ModMic 5.0, if possible. Will I have to upgrade to a newer Mixamp? A gaming headset? Is there something else that is better that is compatible with both the Xbox Series X and PS5? All I want is proper surround sound and mic


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

High Fidelity said:


> I currently have the AKG K7XX headphones/ModMic 5.0 with a 2015 Astro Mixamp Pro and Schitt Magni 2 Uber that I use with a PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. I will eventually be getting an Xbox Series X and without the optical port I am unsure how to get the same surround sound and mic functionality on my current setup.
> 
> From what I have read I believe my setup is obsolete with the new consoles. I know there is an hdmi adapter, but I don't think it will work with my Mixamp because I don't believe I can update the firmware, if there is even a firmware update for older Mixamps.
> 
> I want to continue using my AKG K7XX/ModMic 5.0, if possible. Will I have to upgrade to a newer Mixamp? A gaming headset? Is there something else that is better that is compatible with both the Xbox Series X and PS5? All I want is proper surround sound and mic


I think there is a firmware update that allows audio via USB. I have almost the same setup as you.


----------



## High Fidelity (Aug 8, 2021)

oakparkmusicguy said:


> I think there is a firmware update that allows audio via USB. I have almost the same setup as you.


This is what my Astro Mixamp Pro 2015 looks like.


----------



## oakparkmusicguy

Oh ok. Sorry - I was confusing that and the TR.


----------



## illram

Tried DTS:X for the first time. It actually has really good rear cues to my ears, better than Atmos for Headphones. There is more of a "stage" so the audio is positioned more accurately in space behind you rather than Atmos' tendency to stick stuff at the back of my neck.

Unfortunately I only tried Warzone so verticality is really difficult to judge, because this game's object based audio is pretty bad. But if I did not already own Atmos I'd be tempted to get DTS:X instead. It also lets you select your headphones, from a fairly impressive selection which to me should almost be standard these days for serious virtualization.

People here were discussing another software based PC download for virtual audio, but I can't find the discussion. Not redscape or Waves, something else? I'm itching to try more stuff...


----------



## MarkDraconian

illram said:


> Tried DTS:X for the first time. It actually has really good rear cues to my ears, better than Atmos for Headphones. There is more of a "stage" so the audio is positioned more accurately in space behind you rather than Atmos' tendency to stick stuff at the back of my neck.
> 
> Unfortunately I only tried Warzone so verticality is really difficult to judge, because this game's object based audio is pretty bad. But if I did not already own Atmos I'd be tempted to get DTS:X instead. It also lets you select your headphones, from a fairly impressive selection which to me should almost be standard these days for serious virtualization.
> 
> People here were discussing another software based PC download for virtual audio, but I can't find the discussion. Not redscape or Waves, something else? I'm itching to try more stuff...


DTS is nice, i use it for Atmos movies and series (inside Dolby digital plus files). I don't like Atmos for headphones so much because the virtual speakers sounds like are glued for about 5 cm away of my head.

Is it immerse from Embody? Chastity was reviewing about it few pages earlier. If so, i've used the 14 day trial and is ok for me, nothing that gave me the "WOW" feeling.


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> Tried DTS:X for the first time. It actually has really good rear cues to my ears, better than Atmos for Headphones. There is more of a "stage" so the audio is positioned more accurately in space behind you rather than Atmos' tendency to stick stuff at the back of my neck.
> 
> Unfortunately I only tried Warzone so verticality is really difficult to judge, because this game's object based audio is pretty bad. But if I did not already own Atmos I'd be tempted to get DTS:X instead. It also lets you select your headphones, from a fairly impressive selection which to me should almost be standard these days for serious virtualization.
> 
> People here were discussing another software based PC download for virtual audio, but I can't find the discussion. Not redscape or Waves, something else? I'm itching to try more stuff...


Keep an eye on the Microsoft Store for DTS:X, often enough the app goes on sale for $11.  I like having both apps, since movies are either Dolby or DTS encoded, and I like to use the matching app.  If the game supports either, also good.

For 7.1 games, I use Redscape ($40, tho he often has a 20% code for $32.  I emailed him and he set up a code just for asking   ) or for more budget minded, Waves NX ($10, and they often have 40% off codes for $6)  Waves NX is best when you do your head measurements and it's calibrated.

I didn't care much for Immerse, and didn't like the recurring sub fee, when there are perfectly good options that aren't sub based.


----------



## illram

Thanks guys, yes Immerse was the one I was wondering about trying out. 

I am hesitant about Redscape just because their "demo" is just via a web player which doesn't really sound like much, I want to actually demo the app.


----------



## illram

Tried Immerse. It is either broken or absolutely god-awful sounding on an HD800S. (Tried lots of different headphones).

Definitely heard good rear cues, but my god it sounded distorted and awful. Like a bad 8-bit soundtrack through free airplane headphones. Uninstalled after two rounds of Warzone.

Tried to download the Waves NX app (tried it out like 3 or 4 years ago, want to try it again) but the "try free" button isn't working, for some reason. I hope they're still doing free demos!


----------



## HieroX

illram said:


> Tried Immerse. It is either broken or absolutely god-awful sounding on an HD800S. (Tried lots of different headphones).
> 
> Definitely heard good rear cues, but my god it sounded distorted and awful. Like a bad 8-bit soundtrack through free airplane headphones. Uninstalled after two rounds of Warzone.
> 
> Tried to download the Waves NX app (tried it out like 3 or 4 years ago, want to try it again) but the "try free" button isn't working, for some reason. I hope they're still doing free demos!


Can you imagine if the free version of Waves is an audio ad played over your game soundtrack every 10 minutes?


----------



## TeeReQs

HieroX said:


> Can you imagine if the free version of Waves is an audio ad played over your game soundtrack every 10 minutes?


Don't give them any ideas!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

illram said:


> Tried Immerse. It is either broken or absolutely god-awful sounding on an HD800S. (Tried lots of different headphones).
> 
> Definitely heard good rear cues, but my god it sounded distorted and awful. Like a bad 8-bit soundtrack through free airplane headphones. Uninstalled after two rounds of Warzone.
> 
> Tried to download the Waves NX app (tried it out like 3 or 4 years ago, want to try it again) but the "try free" button isn't working, for some reason. I hope they're still doing free demos!


Tbh, that sounds like you were past the clipping point on the software? I haven't tried it, but IF it's like Redscape AND Waves, you have to stay well below software volume clipping point or it'll distort. There's that, and setting your buffer/latency accordingly. On some systems, if it's too low, it'll also distort/clip.

Just making a guess, if it works like the others.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 26, 2021)

----------
----------

*Creative Sound Blaster GC7*


Price as of August 2021: $169.99
*Where to Buy:* *Creative**, **Amazon*
My Latest Driver/Firmware Check: August 23rd, 2021 (This month's update has managed to break SXFI, so I wouldn't update to this version)


_*Disclaimer:* A special thanks to Creative for sending the Creative GC7 out to me for the impressions/review. As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Creative or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything. They only asked for my honest impressions. That's it.

I want to apologize to my readers and Creative for the inexplicably long delay in getting this review out. I have my reasons. Betyween IRL work, IRL personal issues, among other things, this review was more or less pushed out by the graces of the audiophile gods. So again, forgive me, and thanks for the patience. I'm not all too happy with the way it turned out, but if I kept re-doing sections, I'd never finish. So I decided to post as is. If there is a lack of consistency, blame me. This one was unfortunate in its review timing. I hope it's at least legible enough to be considered a review/impression._



*Intro*​
There seems to be two sides to DAC/AMP design. On one end, you have products like the Schiit Fulla or Hel. Simple, but effective builds and design that are incredibly easy to use and understand. You plug them in, and the few options are all on the unit. Your volume control knob, and your source/gain/power switches. That's it. Really, what else do you need? Sure, you'll lack nuanced options like EQ, bass boost, presets, etc, but for those that don't care for a variety of options, this is all you'll ever need.

Then there's the other end. Creative once again goes the extra mile to throw every option under the sun for their dac/amp offerings. Personally, I will admit to preferring the easier, simpler designs, even if they lack options. Having stated that, I do feel like I need at least one densely featured product for my surround and software necessities. This is where Creative comes in. I find the Creative G6 to be an indispensable necessity, where I'd want to turn a Dolby Digital signal to virtual surround (SBX headphone surround in terms of the G6), and pipe that digitally (or analog) through the optical/analog out, to another DAC or amp. For this, Creative will always have a spot in my setup.

Creative is never shy about packing in features that they believe at least one person will want to utilize. Born of products like the X7, and G6, in comes the GC7. A Game Streaming-centric DAC/AMP with even more features than its predecessors. How does the GC7 fare against it's older siblings? In a way, it may not matter much, since the GC7 caters more towards streamers, with its programmable buttons, and focus towards centralizing audio to one device.



*What's In the Box?*

_(Note: Unfortunately, I have a mess of cables, and I'm in a middle of a few moves, and can't verify the lengths of the cables that came with the unit.)_

Creative GC7 Unit
Optical cable
USB-C to USB-A cable
TRRS 3.5mm mic/headset cable



*Build*​
The moment you take a glance at the GC7, your first reaction is probably gonna be along the lines of the GC7 looking like a mini digital turntable.



It's a very interesting design, but it works. I like to think of it as ideal to place right below your main monitor on your desktop setup. The great thing is that it's a physically simplistic design (despite the underlying controls being quite varied and vast), so there's not much of a steep learning curve in terms of the unit controls itself. It's an intuitive layout, which is good. The GC7 is lightweight but feels appropriately dense, and the plastics used feel robust and capable of taking punishment.


*Front Face:*



The main face area of the GC7 houses most of the physical functions.


*Volume Dial -* Self explanatory. Adjust total volume output of the current source. There's a nice amber LED on the dial's indicator. I would've liked to have seen a similar amber led as the ring at the base of the dial instead of the simply orange colored ring. I also don't understand why it's concave in the center. I feel this area of the dial is just going to act like a bowl for dust and grime to collect in.


*EFX Control Panel -* In the middle of the GC7 are a sort of 'wheel' of buttons. You have:


*Surround:* Pressing this button highlights the surround function, which highlight's the Acoustic Engine's surround function as well as the digital screen showing what percentage level you have the surround function at (0-99). Using the center knob will adjust this on the fly. Unlike the other buttons (Bass, SXFI, Treble, and Mic), pressing in the center knob will switch between your current surround setting, and turning off Surround entirely.


*Bass*: Pressing this button, you can adjust bass boost feature between the default 0 to either -9 bass reduction, or +9 bass boost. Pressing in the center knob will reset to 0.


*SXFI:* Pressing this button, you toggle between SXFI Battle (blue), SXFI (green), and no SXFI (orange). Be aware that the SXFI function only works if a headphone is connected to the GC7. If on analog or optical out, the SXFI button will flash red, letting you know it's disabled. Also, as SXFI is a form of surround, you can't use both the Acoustic Engine surround and SXFI at the same time. The Acoustic Engine's surround will be enabled (if you have it on) with the no SXFI (orange) mode.


*Treble:* Like the Bass button, the Treble function can adjust between -9 to +9 reduction or boost to the treble range. Again, pressing the center knob in will reset the value back to 0.


*Mic:* Pressing this button, you can then adjust the mic output volume. On my end, pressing in the center knob will reset the mic output to 69% from a 0-100 range.

Each of the buttons light up in an amber color when pressed to indicate which is currently selected, and adjustable by the center knob (aside from the 3 colors of the SXFI button indicating which mode it's on). On the right side of the of the main area on the unit is the game/voice volume dial.


*GameVoice Mix -* With this dial, you can adjust volume balance of game Audio and voice chat. Personal experience as someone who rarely uses voice chat, there's merely a subtle difference between having the dial at 12 o' clock, or fully leaned towards the game side. Also has a nice amber indicator to indicate position. Identical to the volume dial, it's concave in the center, which serves no purpose other than collecting dirt and grime.


*C1-C4 Programmable Buttons -* There are 4 C buttons that allow for various shortcuts or functions to be mapped to each one. I'll go through what each shortcut/function is on the software section. Each button has an RGB ring that can be customized in the software. By Default, each C button does have a default function, though I changed them to do completely other functions. Here's what they are, out of the box...

*C1:* Cycle Between FPS Mode > Battle Royale Mode > MOBA Mode
*C2:* Mic Monitoring On/Off
*C3:* Scout Mode On/Off
*C4:* Output Switch between Headphones > Speakers/Line Out > Dual Output (Both)

*Mic Mute button - *Self explanatory. Mute's your mic output. The button's outer ring will glow red when mute is activated.


*Front I/O Interface (left to right):



PC/Mobile/Mobile LED indicators -* Depending on what your current source is (selected by the rear I/O interface) currently being used, one of the leds will glow white.

*Dolby Digital indicator -* Will glow if the GC7 is currently being fed a Dolby Digital signal through the optical input.

*3.5mm Mic input -* Here you'll insert your microphone cable.

*3.5mm headphone/headset input -* Here you'll plug in your headphones and even headsets with 4-pole TRRS plugs. A benefit of the headset input is that you do not need a headset audio/mic splitter with the GC7.


*Rear I/O Interface:*

**​
*3.5mm Line Out -* You can send an analog signal to another amplifier, or set of powered speakers. Unfortunately, SXFI will not be transmitted through the analog out. Creative, please rectify this in the future, whether by updates, or in your next SXFI product.

*3.5mm (Mobile) Line In -* Analog input for mobile devices, or other non-digital sources.

*Gain Switch -* Switch between Low and High gain for the headphone out. Does not affect the line out or optical out.

*Optical Out -* You can use the GC7 as a 'pre-dac', allowing many of its sound-altering functions to pass on to another DAC.

*Optical Input -* I feel this is always a desirable input to have, as you can simply send every source to a Television, and from the TV's optical out, send a Dolby Digital signal to the GC7. Well, either a TV or an AVR. This eliminates the need to connect multiple devices to the GC7 one by one.

My only gripe with these types of inputs/outputs is that we need to step away from the optical inputs that have the flap. These flaps are prone to break under heavy use, speaking from personal experiences with busted optical ports throughout the years. Creative, please change to flapless or 3.5mm optical inputs.  You already utilize combo 3.5mm analog AND optical input/outputs on the G6, so it's nothing new for you.

*USB C input -* Used for power and data. Creative has moved on to Type C, and we're all the better for it.

*Mobile/Console/PC Switch -* With this, you select what kind of source will be used for the GC7. While this is fine, I'm quite disappointed that toggling this switch will reset the other selections. So for example, if you set it to PC, and rename the device on the PC settings to something other than the default 'Speakers' (I like to name it 'Creative GC7 USB'), change the bit rate and frequency to say.... 24bit/96khz, etc. Once you toggle to Mobile or Console, and go back to PC, all those changes will be reset. For someone like me who likes to swap between using the GC7 on PC and the PS5, this is quite annoying.  I've given up and now leave to one of the million devices on my PC defaulted to 'Speakers'. Oh well.

*On/Off Switch -* I'm happy this exists on the GC7, as on the G6, there's no way to turn it off other than unplugging the cable. This sounds like such a minor thing, but it's the little things that count.


*Bottom Of Unit:*
​**

The GC7 at the base is tilted (where the rear is raised, and the front is shorter), allowing easier, more comfortable access to the Unit's face. Other than the two long rubber 'feet', there's nothing else other than a sticker with S/N, barcode and Made In China label.



*Final Build Impressions:*

Creative has never let me down with any of it's dac/amp units, and the GC7 is no exception. Barring the missteps with the reset that occurs with physical source toggle, the return of flap of doom optical ports, and the weird concave/bowl shape of the dials, the GC7 is solidly built, with an intuitive layout, and a suite of customizability that ensures a lot of versatility from the GC7. Overall, the minor complaints I have on the build are just that, minor, and are far outweighed by the things the GC7's design does right.

I feel this is a great evolution to Creative's dac/amps, as it looks and feels like it belongs as an integral part of anyone's desktop setup.



*Software*​
In terms of personal use, I could use the PC software, as well as the Android app on my phone. As they both have the same exact functions, I'll be focusing on one, the PC software, as it's easier to discuss and bring up images for, and is largely the one I use 99% of the time. The Android app is wonderful and all it needs to do is find the GC7 wirelessly. Once connected, all functions work as expected. I hadn't even realized the GC7 had an incredibly useful android app until I started writing the review. That's what I get for being one of those guys that never reads instructions and learns things on his own. I recommend everyone look into the mobile Creative app for the GC7, in case you don't have a PC to adjust the settings. This was an issue with the G6 (you needed a PC to change the non-physical settings). Fantastic improvement by Creative. Way to improve functionality.

Ok, so while these images are of the PC Creative software, you can expect a similar looking setting on mobile.



Starting from the left column is a few options:


*Device:*

Here's where the bulk of the GC7 specific settings are.

*Sound Mode -* Here's where you can find sound presets, like Gaming, Music, Movies, etc. Each preset will have specific settings tweaks that will effect the Surround setting, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart Volume, Dialog+, and even the Equalizer. You can see this by actually clicking on the Sound Mode section. If you attempt to adjust one of the pre-made presets, it will change to 'Onboard'. This way you can't affect the already created presets. You can also create your own presets. Note that the Acoustic Engine (the general term that encompasses all the GC7's settings) will not be enabled IF you enable any of the SXFI modes.

*Super X-Fi -* Clicking on this will prompt a box to appear asking you to allow the Creative app to open up ANOTHER app, the SXFI app. Save yourselves the future headache, and download the SXFI app on mobile, register, log in, and get pictures of your ears. Once you have done all that, you can then just log in on the PC software, and let the GC7 save your headmap. Otherwise, instead of clicking on the SXFI area, hover over the area that actually says Super X-fi, and it will bring up a smaller box where you can select between Super X-Fi, Super X-Fi Battle, and Neither/Off. Again, before using SXFI, I recommend you get your own headmapping first for the optimal SXFI experience.

*CrystalVoice -* Below the Super X-Fi section is CrystalVoice. Clicking on this opens another section where you can adjust Noise Reduction for outgoing audio (your own mic) between Low and High. Then there's a Smart Volume toggle, which auto adjusts your mic output, so no need to shout or whisper. After that is a toggle for Voice Morph, which as you may have surmised alters your voice to a variety of different presets, from things like Emo, to Demon, to things like Chipmunk. Useful if you don't want anyone to know what you really sound like. Finally, you have a Microphone Equalizer which adds a bunch of presets that can reduce bass, reduce harshness, improve clarity, etc.

*Mixer -* Below CrystalVoice is Mixer. Clicking on this opens up a section with two areas, Volume and Device. Volume allows you to adjust the Playback volume of the Speakers/Headset. Adjusting this will break the connection the volume has with the physical unit, so for instance having the volume dial maxed on the Unit itself, and lowering this setting, will lower the volume. Adjusting the physical unit volume afterwards will link the volumes back up, though it's a bit screwy, and I recommend fully lowering the volume on the Unit, and raising it back to desired volume. Personally, I wouldn't adjust volume here. Leave that to the volume dial on the unit itself. You can also adjust Monitoring volume for the SPDIF Interface, Microphone, and Line. Then there's Recording volume control, which adjusts volume of Mic Line, Mic, SPDIF Interface, and Digital Audio Interface. To be honest with y'all, I didn't test for these, so I recommend reading instructions and checking the GC7 webpage for more info. Next to the Volume sub-section is the Device section under Mixer, which allows you to select between what the Optical Out does. You can choose Stereo Mix (which will be affected by the GC7's settings outside of SXFI), and SPDIF Passthrough, which...will not. This is useful if you want to pass an untouched signal to something like a Home Theater AVR.

*Acoustic Engine -* This will open up the main effects area, which like Sound Mode, will show toggles and sliders for Surround, Crystalizer, Bass, Smart Volume, and Dialog+. I'll be completely honest with you all when I say I don't ever use options like this, and keep them all disabled. The only one I used was Surround, until I noticed it wasn't as good as SXFI, or the old SBX surround on the G6. I normally don't like to alter the sound of my sources, hence why I tend to never use these types of settings. Note that you can choose to use any of these for headphones, speakers, or both.

*Surround -* will expand the stereo image into a sort of virtual surround, like the G6's SBX surround did, though I think it's a far inferior version (with no real rear positional cues), and I recommend you use SXFI over this setting. Almost as if this setting isn't taking 7.1 into account, only stereo. Creative, please fix this. SBX was a much better Surround implementation.


*Crystalizer -* This setting is a Creative-specific clarity enhancer. I consider it to be a sort of in house EQ.


*Bass - *A bass boost toggle. Essentially another form of EQ slider, but affects just bass.


*Smart Volume -* A sort of auto volume leveler, so as to not have abrupt changes in volume.


*Dialog+ -* Yet another Creative-specific sound enhancer that focuses on enhancing the vocal range.

*Scout Mode -* After the Acoustic Engine is Scout Mode which has its own sub-section, and is there to improve/enhance the competitive gaming experience. Again, this is yet ANOTHER Creative-specific sound tweak like a catered EQ just for hardcore gaming. You can assign a hot key to enable/disable this on the fly, for when you're trying to focus on subtle sounds for brief moments instead of all the time. Personally, I like a flat, even balance to my source sounds, so I can hear everything as intended, but that's just me.

*Custom Buttons -* This section is where you can adjust what the C1, C2, C3, C4 buttons do on the GC7, as well as what kind of color they glow. It can do everything from changing device functions like your Sound Mode (as explained earlier, are sound presets), Scout Mode toggling, Mic Monitoring toggling, Output Switch (Headphone, Speakers, Both), and None (disables the button). Also does systemn functions like Media Control (Play/Pause, Next Track, Previous Track), Navigation (on press it will launch an application, file, or URL), Text and Emoji (on press, input text or emoji), and Keystroke (on press triggers a keystroke). Not quite sure how Keystroke works.

*Button Color -* Here you can adjust the color of the C button's RGB ring. Here you get a full spectrum color wheel, the brightness of the light output, as well as full 0-255 values for R, G, B, as well as a HEX value editor. You can also save the color choices you have made per button. What did I personally do? Set them all to an amber color to match every single other amber indicator on the unit. I like consistency, and I don't care much for visual RGB rainbow vomit.

*Equalizer -* Here you'll find the Equalizer. Clicking on it will take you to the actual EQ. It's a 5 band EQ, with sliders for Preamp, Bass, and Treble. There is also a copius amount of presets, from the default Flat, to music oriented presets, and even down to specific game EQ presets.

*Decoder -* This is the dynamic range control for Dolby Digital media. You can choose from Normal, Full, or Night.

I won't waste your time talking about self explanatory sections like Playback settings, Recording settings, and the actual Settings sections. These are things you guys can figure out for yourselves, as they're nothing new to software applications, and you should be able to navigate with ease.


*Final Software Impressions:*

I'll be straight in telling you that like most software programs, I don't use the vast majority of options available. That being said, the GC7 has a cornucopia of options that allow you to tailor the GC7 to personal preference. Chances are, if you want something out of the software, it's in there. You're absolutely spoiled for choice.

On the first day I used the GC7, I was actually a bit annoyed by how much there is to to unpack and sift through, but to be completely honest, it's not so overwhelming that you can't learn what to and what not to use. After my initial grievances, the GC7 was intuitive and simple enough to use, especially for someone like me who uses so few options in general, and leave most options off.

Most of the options are there to enhance the usability of the GC7, not be bogged down by it. The great thing is that the most important aspects of the GC7 can be adjusted on the unit itself, so outside of a few options you absolutely should set in the software (like setting the playback to 7.1 if you're going to use SXFI with the USB DAC portion of the GC7), you can mostly ignore the software if you want. Still, Creative throws everything but the kitchen sink (as previously mentioned), and it's all more or less useful if you're into any of the specific options. Not so much for me, but I understand the need and necessity to be prepared for absolutely everything.

I'll say it one more time, download the mobile app for easy software adjustment when not using a PC.

If you've ever come from other Creative devices, you can expect a lot of similarities to their old software suites. The good thing is that Creative has ironed the kinks out over the years and made the experience of navigating their software a lot less overwhelming and problematic. It's not my favorite piece of software, but after having used the X7, G6, Air headset, and now the GC7's software, this is a song and dance I've more or less mastered by now.



*Ease Of Use*​
I wrote this section earlier, then the PC restarted and I lost my progress. Instead of rewriting it all, I'll hit some points, so you all get the gist of how I feel.

The GC7 has two sides to its usability. The things that are easy to learn and understand, and the initial bloat and overwhelming feeling of being buried under a mountain of options. Ultimately, even the things that are hard at first, become easier with time, until it's practically second nature.

*Software*


There's a lot of options and it might be a bit off-putting at first, but it's all usable, you don't have to use anything you don't need, and once you've set things the way you like, you don't have to come back to the software for most options (as they most important ones are on the unit itself).


It's annoying that you have to open up yet another program with the initial set up of Super X-Fi. Once you have that set up though, you don't really have to do it ever again, unless you wanna remap your head/ears.

*Mobile App*


Similar to the PC software, if a bit easier to navigate by touch.


The only gripe I have with the mobile app is the initial connection between your phone and the GC7. It takes a bit longer than I'd like but it's only an issue upon connecting, and not after.

*Physical Unit*


The GC7 itself is easy to use and relatively intuitive, albeit with a few caveats


The rear Low/Gain switch should have really been placed on the front side, as well as the Mobile/PC/Console switch. Kind of weird to have them placed on the rear where you can't see.


I feel that all the center EFX section buttons should have all been lit up at all times, and switch to a different color to highlight which function was currently being adjusted. Just for the sake of constant visibility.


While I may not have much use for the C1, C2, C3, C4 buttons personally, I do really think they'll be quite useful for those that want shortcuts to the software's other features like game presets, among other useful possibilities.



*Connectivity*​
_(To not drag this review as long as I already have, I'm gonna cut this section a little short.)_

*1.* *PC*



This is pretty self explanatory. Through the USB type C interface, you connect to any PC. The PC will pick the GC7 up as both Speakers and Headset. You'll want to set the default output device as the Speakers option on the Windows sound panel. Also as your input device for the recording/microphone. You can set up to 24-bit/192khz. I personally set it to 24/96, as that is the highest option you can set if using 7.1 surround.


*2.* *Playstation 4 and 5

USB:*

Connecting the GC7 to the PS5 through USB is fairly painless. The PS5 will pick it up as an audio device without issues. I would disable SXFI or the built in surround on the GC7 as the PS5 only outputs 2 channel/stereo through USB, and either way, the PS5 has Tmpest 3D Audio, making it somewhat redundant to try using the implementations by Creative. The PS4 will also pick up the GC7, but without Tempest 3D Audio, you'll have to resort to using Creative's surround mode and SXFI for a 2 channel source, which I don't recommend. I'd connect to the PS4 through the optical/spdif, as mentioned right below.

*Optical/Toslink:*

If whatever display or AVR you use that is connected to the PS4/PS5 can output Dolby Digital through their optical out, you can use this instead. Here, Sony doesn't have the Tempest 3D audio option (at least not at the time of this review), so you can use either the Surround option on the GC7, or even better, the two superior SXFI modes. Make sure your display/AVR are outputting Bitstream and Dolby Digital (5.1). You'll know it is by the DD symbol on the front of the GC7 having its led lit up.


*3. Nintendo Switch*

I don't have a Switch to test at the moment, but I know it's officially supported via the dock's USB mode.


*4. Xbox consoles*

Link the PS4 and 5, you'll want to use the optical/toslink method to connect to these, as they do not have official support otherwise. That means you'll likely need to connect from a TV or AVR's optical out, and set them to Bitstream/Dolby Digital.



*Amplification*​
The GC7 has less volume gain than the G6, though not as low output as something like the Sennheiser GSX 1000. I feel the output is moderate, but you'll want to use easy to drive headphones and headsets. If you need to power hard to drive headphones, you'll want to utilize the analog out to another amp, or even another dac/amp through the optical out. The downside here is that you can't use SXFI through anything but the GC7's headphone jack. I'll say this multiple times, but I hope Creative rectifies this with a future update, or at worst, in their next SXFI product. Please Creative, do the former. If the X7 and G6 were give updates to send SBX headphone surround through their analog/digital outputs, the GC7 SHOULD send SXFI through the same outputs.



One other thing I need to mention is that the GC7 has a 10-ohm output impedance, which unlike the G6's 1-ohm output, is a bit high, and can slightly affect the tonal balance of lower impedance headphones (particularly dynamic headphones). Nothing significantly worth nothing (plenty of 10ohm headphone amps exist), but if you find your headphones to sound a bit different or off with the GC7 than what you're used to from other amps, this may be why.



*Surround Modes*​
In terms of virtual surround, while the G6 has SBX surround, and the GC7 has whatever they're calling their in built surround, as well as two versions of SXFI. I wrote some notes a while back which I'll just parrot here:

*GC7's Surround function:*

This is what I feel is actually the most disappointing aspect of the GC7. Well, aside from the lack of SXFI passthrough, which I'll rant about later. For a built in surround, I've used a few different ones that were once used for Creative products. CMSS-3D, THX TruStudio, SBX, SXFI, and...whatever the Surround function is here.

This is simply their worst iteration of internal surround, and I'm wondering if it's actually messed up. Creative is usually really good with their virtual surround implementations, but this version... this doesn't even give proper rear positional cues. If it can't do that, I don't want it. The other disappointing aspect is that it's the only surround on the device that can be transferred through the analog and digital outputs. Thankfully, it shares its space on the GC7 with two much, much better modes.

*SXFI:*

SXFI is what I consider to be the best virtual surround process that I have personally experienced. It's not perfect, as there are bound to be people that tell you it's just too processed sounding. Personally, you're going to have that trade off for all the best surround implementations, as they are transformative in nature. By that, I mean you're not meant to think of it as listening at a surround experience with your headphones. If anything it should be taken as using your headphones to be transported to another place. One that is an amazing virtual surround experience. Ditch the notion that you're listening to headphones. Think of it as you're now listening to this virtual space, where sounds come from all around you. With amazing positional accuracy. So stop comparing the regular headphone experience with the SXFI experience. They sound completely different. The closest comparable analog would be you sitting in a big room with an amazing surround speaker setup, not headphones. As an example, if someone is behind you, you can clearly tell he's behind you.

*SXFI Battle:*

SXFI Battle is the newest form of SXFI virtual surround that is aimed towards detail oriented gaming. It's a sort of a mix of what makes SXFI good, with the kind of clarity enhancement you'd hear from something like Creative's own Scout Mode. It's much more precise, and pinpoint sharp in comparison to regular SXFI, though I feel its tonal balance is artificial sounding. I find it strictly useful for focusing and highlighting sounds, and not so much for the enjoyment of sound itself. I personally prefer SXFI over SXFI Battle, but if all you care about is a competitive edge while still utilizing surround, SXFI Battle is amazing.



*Comparisons*​
At $169.99, the GC7 is placed just $10 cheaper than the G6. I think all who have known me throughout the last few years, know the G6 is my automatic #1 recommendation as my favorite fully equipped gaming dac/amp if you can't jump up to the Creative X7. The G6 has nearly everything I could want, including the ability to send its virtual surround to my more expensive dac and amplifiers. It is a brilliant piece of gear, only made better and better throughout the years of updates and fixes. This means, there needs to be a compelling reason why I'd recommend the GC7 over the G6 for those looking at which to choose.

The GC7 makes it case as being the equipment that looks better on the desk as a main unit compared to the G6's portable friendly, but not desktop-centric build. The G6 looks best as something you lug around for a laptop, rather than a piece of equipment you setup and never move.

The GC7's layout also lends itself better to a desktop setup where you merely reach in front of you and adjust on the fly. With the G6, every adjustment you make on the unit, will likely cause it to slip and slide around, again proving that it's best as something you lug around and not keep stationary. The GC7 just *feels* better to touch and utilize. I do like that both are easily powered through one usb, with the GC7 using Type C, while the G6 being stuck in the past with its Micro USB connectivity. The GC7 wins here.

Moving on to functions, it's a no brainer; the GC7 handily surpasses the G6 in immediate usability and options. The G6 is no slouch, as the software is nearly as dense in features as the GC7, yet the GC7 allows more of its functions on the unit itself, outside of the software, not forgetting the addition of 4 customizable buttons to boot.

Power-wise, the G6 just has more power on tap, period. That being said, since I feel the best aspect of these devices are their ability to push their functions to other gear, I don't deem amplification strength to be of the utmost importance. If you don't plan on getting other gear, then yes, the G6 has a bit more headroom, but it's not so drastic that the GC7 is left behind. If you compare something like the GSX1000 to the G6, you'll notice a distinct lack of headroom on the GSX1000 in comparison. With the GC7, I don't feel it's that far behind, though it's definitely a win for the G6, no question about it. Also, the fact the G6 has a 1-ohm output impedance vs ther 10-ohm output impedance on the GC7, I'd choose the G6 over the GC7 for most headphones if no extra amplifier is being used.

Sound-wise, I do think the G6 sounds a bit cleaner, though ultimately, these things are subtle, and shouldn't sway you one way or another. They're both what I consider good enough for their purpose and price. Again, attaching better gear mitigates whatever deficiencies they may have, so I don't think either necessarily lose, though if you're adamant about finding which sounds cleaner/better as a standalone dac/amp, I'd give the edge to the G6. As for virtual surround between them, G6's SBX surround is the easiest surround to sway hardcore headphone users into trying without them feeling like they're blaspheming. It's the least processed-sounding, and has good positional accuracy without going overboard.

The GC7 has its unusable Surround mode that just expands stereo soundstage without any real positional benefits. The GC7 also has SXFI and SXFI Battle which I think are two of the best surround implementations in terms of positional accuracy, though at the expense of sounding very transformative to the headphone experience. This may sound good to people like me, but bad to people that want their headphones to sound like headphones. As such, I think between the G6 and the GC7, it largely depends on the person. The safer bet is the G6, though I personally think that SXFI is unrivalled and should be experienced by more and more people.

One major benefit the G6 has over the GC7 is the ability to send SBX surround to other gear digitally (through toslink/optical out) or through its line out. The GC7, at the moment, can't, unless you wanna count that messed up Surround mode. No SXFI. So the win (for now) in terms of virtual surround usability is on the G6. With the GC7, you'll have to attach a cable from the headphone jack, to an amplifier to gain SXFI for other amplifiers. It feels dirty to say nowadays. If Creative fixes this with an update, I'll happily give the victory to the GC7. Creative, I will NOT let you forget this. Without this functionality, I'm QUITE disappointed. You can ALSO attempt to fix the EFX surround option. Do that to where its at the very least as good as SBX, and you'll tip the scales towards the GC7.

So which do I recommend more overall? It's honestly a toss up. I feel both have their place, but honestly, the G6 is more versatile (more portable friendly), cleaner sounding, and more powerful. The GC7 is more fully fleshed out as an all-in-one, and feels great to use. Its best functions are directly on the unit, whereas the G6 you may have more of a reason to keep going back to the software. Again, IF Creative updates the GC7 with a better surround option, or adds full on SXFI availability like its other software options, then I'll absolutely give the victory to the GC7.

Honestly, I'd be happy with either, and having one or the other wouldn't feel like I'm missing anything (again, outside the SXFI limitations).

One final thing to note on which to use, the GC7 (at the time of writing) is ideally used as the main dac/amp/all-in-one unit. So if you have no other gear at all, the GC7 is pretty sufficient as a starter complete solution. The G6 does this just as well, but I feel is better utilized when you have other higher end gear to piggyback of the G6. Something about a small portable unit that I don't like as a main piece of audio gear. The GC7 looks and feels the part. The G6 doesn't.



*Personal Recommendations*​
As the GC7's form factor lends itself best as a desktop unit, I'd probably leave it as just that. Something right in front of your keyboard as an audio interface. The controls are fantastic, the programmable buttons allow you to set your own functions, and the large volume dials make fine volume adjustments a breeze.

If you wanted something more portable, the G6 would be the better alternative. Really, which I'd choose between them would be based entirely on what my purpose for them are. For home, on my desktop, definitely the GC7. On the go, G6.

The GC7 can be used as a simple dac/amp, or as a full on, bells and whistles device with bass boosting, voice morphing, clarity boosting, and other sound enhancing options. It works well as both, so for the adamant audiophile, or gamer that needs options, the GC7 will serve you well.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Form Factor
Physical Interface
Customizable face buttons
SXFI and SXFI Battle are stellar surround modes
PS5 support
Versatility

*Dislikes:*

Can't passthrough SXFI through line out/digital out. Creative, I will not be satisfied until this becomes standard.
Built in "Surround" setting is not really surround to my ears. Needs patch to sound more like older SBX. Give us SBX Surround back, Creative.
Initially overwhelming software options



*Final Impressions*​
The GC7 is in a bit of a spot being so dangerously close to the G6 in both price and features. The G6 has been around a long time, and has been improved by updates and product maturity. The GC7 really needed to be compelling as something to choose over the G6. Did it do it?

I'll start with the shortcomings. The wonky surround feature doesn't quite work right, and then there is the GC7's inability to pass SXFI to other dac/amps (though if you're someone who has no desire to use virtual surround with your headphones, this is absolutely a non-issue). The software is a bit loaded, where it may scare some people, but I plead to those people, stick with it, as the GC7 will reward your patience.

On the plus side, the form factor feels right at home on a desktop setup, the inclusion of SXFI is always, always welcome, and the abundant amount of options ensure that there are things within the software that practically everyone will want or enjoy. Creative has thrown all its might into a relatively small package that fits any home setup.

Ultimately, the GC7's viability will depend on Creative updating it to surpass the G6. It can only get better, and I have faith Creative will nurture its possibilities even further in the future. Fingers crossed.


----------



## illram

> If the X7 and G6 were give updates to send SBX headphone surround through their analog/digital outputs, the GC7 SHOULD send SXFI through the same outputs.



Great review. Creative, listen to this man!


----------



## Chastity

I have to agree with MLE about the lack of VSS via digital outputs.  This locks you onto their hardware analog, which isn't the best ever.  Tho I suppose a Realiser is still too cost prohibitive.    The VSS apps available today make it moot for PC gamers to have to invest in hardware virtual surround.


----------



## duranxv

illram said:


> Tried Immerse. It is either broken or absolutely god-awful sounding on an HD800S. (Tried lots of different headphones).
> 
> Definitely heard good rear cues, but my god it sounded distorted and awful. Like a bad 8-bit soundtrack through free airplane headphones. Uninstalled after two rounds of Warzone.
> 
> Tried to download the Waves NX app (tried it out like 3 or 4 years ago, want to try it again) but the "try free" button isn't working, for some reason. I hope they're still doing free demos!



I agree with you about DTS;X and rear cues.  Definitely better than Atmos.  However, I've been using Redscape lately, and I actually like it more than Atmos and DTS;X.  I feel it does Surround processing better, and the fact it has a built in EQ menu is a plus.  What I also like about it is that you can individually alter the dB level of each surround speaker in 7.1 mode, so that you can make rear cues, etc more distinct.


----------



## illram

duranxv said:


> I agree with you about DTS;X and rear cues.  Definitely better than Atmos.  However, I've been using Redscape lately, and I actually like it more than Atmos and DTS;X.  I feel it does Surround processing better, and the fact it has a built in EQ menu is a plus.  What I also like about it is that you can individually alter the dB level of each surround speaker in 7.1 mode, so that you can make rear cues, etc more distinct.


Yeah I am playing around with Redscape and I like it for all the reasons you stated. The EQ and speaker selection is great. The LFE channel simulation is cool and sounds really nice on planars.

I'm not 100% sold on its rear and front cues yet but they are definitely there. I am still fiddling with all the settings like head size etc. This might be the one until I can finally use SXFI with better gear than the hardware Creative forces on us. (Please Creative! Please!)


----------



## HieroX

I suggest posting this GC7 review on the Creative Reddit.


----------



## duranxv

HieroX said:


> I suggest posting this GC7 review on the Creative Reddit.



And reminding them to allow SXFi to be carried over optical out, lol


----------



## HieroX

duranxv said:


> And reminding them to allow SXFi to be carried over optical out, lol


exactly. lol


----------



## Lund

Those of you using DTS: HEADPHONE X along with a creative sound blaster product like the X3 or GC7. Do you guys turn off The SBX surround sound when using DTS HEADPHONE X or Do you use it in conjunction with SBX?

Should I set the headphones to stereo when using DTS X or  set it to 7.1 Virtual surround sound in the Sound blaster software ?
Im just looking for the correct configuration if anyone knows


----------



## MarkDraconian

Lund said:


> Those of you using DTS: HEADPHONE X along with a creative sound blaster product like the X3 or GC7. Do you guys turn off The SBX surround sound when using DTS HEADPHONE X or Do you use it in conjunction with SBX?
> 
> Should I set the headphones to stereo when using DTS X or  set it to 7.1 Virtual surround sound in the Sound blaster software ?
> Im just looking for the correct configuration if anyone knows


Never use 2 VSS at the same time. In this case just use DTS Headphone X and the soundcard(or sound blaster software) must be in stereo mode.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> *Dislikes:*
> 
> Can't passthrough SXFI through line out/digital out. Creative, I will not be satisfied until this becomes standard.


This + the lack of proper amplification for harder to drive headphones really kill this one for me. Thanks for trying Creative, see you in the next iteration, if you by then have finally fixed this oversight after 3 iterations.

Thanks for the great review!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 20, 2021)

halcyon said:


> This + the lack of proper amplification for harder to drive headphones really kill this one for me. Thanks for trying Creative, see you in the next iteration, if you by then have finally fixed this oversight after 3 iterations.
> 
> Thanks for the great review!


Apparently the next update will at least pass proper surround through the line/optical out. We'll see. It's not SXFI, but it's a great consolation, as long as they fixed the surround, which right now is not exactly working.

As for proper amplification for harder to drive headphones, I guess for people like me, that doesn't matter, as I'd unload amplification to my other gear. Just needs that update ASAP.


----------



## motorwayne

I just tried the HeSuVi version of CMSS so I could hear it on the AK4490 DAC I put into the Lyr 3, apart from the DAC sounding way clearer and more seperated than the Titanium HD dac, I can't really tell the difference between the positional cues of the Hardware or software, bang on accurate to my ear. But boy the amp/dac combo i have now just throws a whole other level of separation, I'm picking up zombies early!!! 🧟‍♂️🧟‍♀️


----------



## halcyon (Aug 23, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Apparently the next update will at least pass proper surround through the line/optical out. We'll see. It's not SXFI, but it's a great consolation, as long as they fixed the surround, which right now is not exactly working.
> 
> As for proper amplification for harder to drive headphones, I guess for people like me, that doesn't matter, as I'd unload amplification to my other gear. Just needs that update ASAP.



Yeah, but herein lies the rub:

1) no SXFI through optical out or line out
2) Not enough juice to drive harder to drive headphones
= can't hook up an external amp and enjoy your harder to drive headphones WITH SXFI (only stereo OR SBX Studio in the future, after the upgrade)

I'm almost tempted to :
1) Buy a SXFI device
2) Take multiple photos of my ears
3) Record several 5.1 / 7.1 -> SXFI -> Stereo headphones impulse response files using the SXFI gear
4) Return the SXFI device for full refund
5) Install impulse response files in HeSuVi
6) Enjoy PERSONALIZED, ZERO latency, SXFI through to ANY DAC, ANY headphone Amp, ANY headphones I desire
7) Give Creative a big fat FU

In fact, I just bought the cheapest SXFI device and will do just that.

I mean really. How many iterations do they need? We've been bitching about the SXFI output even since the first device came out and they still don't want to do it.

It's as if they don't want our money.


----------



## Chastity

halcyon said:


> I mean really. How many iterations do they need?


I feel your pain over this, which is why I decided to get away from hardware-tied VSS, and moved onto software VSS solutions, like Redscape, Waves NX, and Dolby Access/DTS:X.  I don't prefer to use HeSuVi as I like to support the development of VSS solutions.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Luckily we're at a point where hardware VSS is no longer necessary (outside of wanting us use VSS on Dolby Digital encoded TV apps, I mean how else will you get VSS from your TV?)

But yeah, it's still not completely replaceable.

And like Chastity, I rather support Creative and the like for their own tech. I won't use HeSuVi.


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> And like Chastity, I rather support Creative and the like for their own tech. I won't use HeSuVi.


Same re supporting Creative, but for now I'll be using HeSuVi's version of CMSS (As an owner of 3 Creative cards currently) so I can run a better Amp/Dac combo (I blame Chastity for forcing me to buy the Lyr 3 witha DAC card ) until Creative gets it's act together with a better solution. Sheesh, I've been using their cards since 1993 when I purchased their SB 16! LOL!


----------



## illram

halcyon said:


> Yeah, but herein lies the rub:
> 
> 1) no SXFI through optical out or line out
> 2) Not enough juice to drive harder to drive headphones
> ...


Have you been able to do this? I cannot get past the first step which is recording an accurate test 7.1 track. (https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/How-To Record Impulse Responses Digitally/) Audacity spits out an error code when I select GC7 speakers loopback as the input, and when I can get a recording (selecting headset as the input/output) the LFE channel sounds super distorted. So I gave up. If you were able to do it I'd love to know, as I would like to get SXFI on my better gear. (I won't be returning any of my Creative products though, they can keep my money!)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Eh, I tested the GC7... Surround is still broken.

Definitely not SBX, and def not getting real rear audio cues.


----------



## halcyon

illram said:


> Have you been able to do this? I cannot get past the first step which is recording an accurate test 7.1 track. (https://sourceforge.net/p/hesuvi/wiki/How-To Record Impulse Responses Digitally/) Audacity spits out an error code when I select GC7 speakers loopback as the input, and when I can get a recording (selecting headset as the input/output) the LFE channel sounds super distorted. So I gave up. If you were able to do it I'd love to know, as I would like to get SXFI on my better gear. (I won't be returning any of my Creative products though, they can keep my money!)



I will report back when I get my gear (SFXI Gamer headset + my ear mics).


----------



## Chastity

motorwayne said:


> (I blame Chastity for forcing me to buy the Lyr 3 witha DAC card


You forgot to mention that it was at gunpoint.  Tho seriously, this pursuit of the Dragon that we all do is our own addiction.


----------



## kadinh

I think I'm going to be selling my HD800S soon (to fund IEM purchase(s)), and it's kinda tedious to plug in my PC38x to my L30/E30 stack and use a wireless ModMic while using PS5 Tempest audio. I'll have to A/B how the 38x and 800S sound going through my setup before I decide what course I'm going to take.

Just kinda thinking out loud, thinking of getting SBX G6, Fulla, or Hel. I had the G6 and sent it back when I had PS4, not sure I want to spend that much on something that came out years ago. Hel looks good, but I'm not sure I'd need that much power for the 38x headphones. Fulla is a good price, but not sure if I should just get the Hel instead. On top of that, Schiit is looking at 1-2 months before shipping.


----------



## motorwayne

kadinh said:


> I think I'm going to be selling my HD800S soon (to fund IEM purchase(s)), and it's kinda tedious to plug in my PC38x to my L30/E30 stack and use a wireless ModMic while using PS5 Tempest audio. I'll have to A/B how the 38x and 800S sound going through my setup before I decide what course I'm going to take.


Interestingly,  I have been through the same process sort of. Loved the PC38X with Titanium HD as dac and amp, though the 800S did give a more "open world" feeling in game. Where the 800S really showed its capacity has been in improvements of both DAC and Amp combo's. For a general system, giving up the 800's and running with the PC38X IMO is totally awesome and will do the job just fine.



Chastity said:


> You forgot to mention that it was at gunpoint.  Tho seriously, this pursuit of the Dragon that we all do is our own addiction.


Too true, but the word I use is "passion", sound, like sight is a wonderful thing to be pursued.


----------



## illram

halcyon said:


> I will report back when I get my gear (SFXI Gamer headset + my ear mics).


Ah you're gonna use in ear mics? Will that mess with the impulse response? I was just using the method that records whatever is playing.


----------



## HieroX

Ok, it could be only me, but did the latest firmware for the GC7 make the SXFi 7.1 config worse?
I swear I hear more echo now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 25, 2021)

HieroX said:


> Ok, it could be only me, but did the latest firmware for the GC7 make the SXFi 7.1 config worse?
> I swear I hear more echo now.


Not just you. They borked it. I was playing Mass Effect 2 LE on PC last night, and I'm like....wth is wrong with SXFI? It just sounds all wrong now. Like it's double processed, like perhaps they added the surround fix to the SXFI setting so we're getting both SXFI and Creative's fixed surround, all at once. Since the surround toggle is still messed up and was supposed to be fixed....who knows?

Creatiiiive.

I have a new connection to them, so I'm gonna have to tell him to pass this on to engineers.


----------



## HieroX

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Not just you. They borked it. I was playing Mass Effect 2 LE on PC last night, and I'm like....wth is wrong with SXFI? It just sounds all wrong now. Like it's double processed, like perhaps they added the surround fix to the SXFI setting so we're getting both SXFI and Creative's fixed surround, all at once. Since the surround toggle is still messed up and was supposed to be fixed....who knows?
> 
> Creatiiiive.
> 
> I have a new connection to them, so I'm gonna have to tell him to pass this on to engineers.


Well, as usual my Creative product is a paperweight for at least 6 months out of their warranty life.


----------



## kadinh

motorwayne said:


> Interestingly,  I have been through the same process sort of. Loved the PC38X with Titanium HD as dac and amp, though the 800S did give a more "open world" feeling in game. Where the 800S really showed its capacity has been in improvements of both DAC and Amp combo's. For a general system, giving up the 800's and running with the PC38X IMO is totally awesome and will do the job just fine.



You're right.....I compared the 800S to the 38x last night......NO COMPARISON. HD800S smoked them easily.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HieroX said:


> Well, as usual my Creative product is a paperweight for at least 6 months out of their warranty life.


I have faith Creative will fix it. They have always managed to pull through with the X7 and G6, which were really faulty at launch, and throughout updates have been made into what they are today. The GC7 should hopefully be pushed to a similar level.

I let my new contact know as well. Here's what I wrote to them:

_"Just wanted to touch up on some things with the GC7, that perhaps you could let the engineering team know?_


_The Surround function on the GC7 is not properly handling 7.1/5.1 channel into headphone surround. The rear positional cues don't sound like they're mixing down from a rear channel source. The G6's SBX surround implementation sounds much better in comparison, with proper surround cues._
_The most recent GC7 update seems to have messed up SXFI. It sounds like there's additional echo/reverb/processing being done, and it all sounds incredibly wonky. Almost like two things are being processed at once. Was the Surround function setting mixed up with SXFI, and now both are being done at once? That's kind of what it sounds like._
_The community is still waiting on an update to allow SXFI headphone DSP to be sent through the analog/optical out for other dac and amps to take care of. This was done for Creative's surround implementations, and we'd like the same thing for SXFI. Atm moment, it's not possible, and we'd really like a patch for this._
_Thanks. My community at head-fi really loves Creative's stuff (particularly the G6 and X7), but we know they can be better., and the GC7 can be pushed to new heights with these fixes."_


----------



## illram

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have faith Creative will fix it. They have always managed to pull through with the X7 and G6, which were really faulty at launch, and throughout updates have been made into what they are today. The GC7 should hopefully be pushed to a similar level.
> 
> I let my new contact know as well. Here's what I wrote to them:
> 
> ...


Thanks MLE. I hope Creative listens! Particularly to point 3......


----------



## halcyon

illram said:


> Ah you're gonna use in ear mics? Will that mess with the impulse response? I was just using the method that records whatever is playing.


That is the best method. Unfortunately I have a USB headset coming (will give to kid after this probably, instead of going through the hassle of returning). So I'm tied to recording with ear mics.


----------



## HieroX

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have faith Creative will fix it. They have always managed to pull through with the X7 and G6, which were really faulty at launch, and throughout updates have been made into what they are today. The GC7 should hopefully be pushed to a similar level.
> 
> I let my new contact know as well. Here's what I wrote to them:
> 
> ...


I think we need more people to highlight the issues with the new update. 

Back when I was using the X3, Creative Customer Service repeatedly told me there's no issues with SXFi until I got frustrated and went straight to their engineers. I had to bring my SXFi amp and X3 there to prove it to them lol.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So HieroX mentioned that SXFI through 5.1 is fine. Only 7.1 is broken. He's 100% correct. I should've checked that. I really don't see the reason to not use 7.1 under normal circumstances, but for now if you're up to date on the GC7, set speakers to 5.1 on PC.

I'll have to test the optical input to see if it's the same result.


----------



## duranxv

Has anyone used a tube pre-amp in their audio setup?  I was thinking of introducing some tubes to see how it affects sound signature in games


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Has anyone used a tube pre-amp in their audio setup?  I was thinking of introducing some tubes to see how it affects sound signature in games


I use one, and I do love it so.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> I use one, and I do love it so.



You may have mentioned it before.  If so, my apologies   Which tube pre amp do you use?

I'm planning to pair it with a high end solid state amp to get more of a "hybrid" sound.


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> You may have mentioned it before.  If so, my apologies   Which tube pre amp do you use?
> 
> I'm planning to pair it with a high end solid state amp to get more of a "hybrid" sound.


My setup:

SMSL M300 MKII -> FX Audio Tube-01 with Sylvania JAN-CHS 6AK5 tubes -> Schiit Asgard 3 -> Monolith M1070

I also have GE JAN 5654W and Voskhod 6J1P-EV tubes


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> My setup:
> 
> SMSL M300 MKII -> FX Audio Tube-01 with Sylvania JAN-CHS 6AK5 tubes -> Schiit Asgard 3 -> Monolith M1070
> 
> I also have GE JAN 5654W and Voskhod 6J1P-EV tubes



Ah ok, so you're basically doing now what I'm planning to do:  Tube pre amp into a solid state

How do you feel the tubes help in terms of gaming sound?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 27, 2021)

I'm only on a Vali 2+ with an EH6922 gold, but I absolutely LOVE the way it sounds.  I don't use it as a pre-amp though. I use it as a contrast to my Jotunheim 2 and as my work  laptop amp (with the Hel 2 as the DAC). But really if I could go back, I think I would've went with a Lyr 3 instead of a Jot 2 due to the desire for tubes now.

In the future, I'd like a Lyr 3 maybe with new add in DAC.


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Ah ok, so you're basically doing now what I'm planning to do:  Tube pre amp into a solid state
> 
> How do you feel the tubes help in terms of gaming sound?


Depends on the tube.  The Sylvania ones are clear, and offer up lots of even-order harmonics, so the audio sounds sweet and robust, with a touch of treble sparkle.  I also remember that the tube preamp addressed an issue with the DT-1990's soundstage.  Many people note that the DT-1990 offer some natural spaciousness on the left and right, but is kinda upfront with frontal depth, aka a wall of sound. (Joshua Velour does a nice description of this in his review)

With the tube preamp, the front space gained depth, and I can place objects in that space.  So it was a nice gain for gaming, movies, and music, especially orchestral music.

The GE JAN 5654W tubes have some of the clarity of the Sylvanias, but offer a touch of bass enhancement.  The Voskhod 6J1P-EV tubes are more your classic warm, syrupy tubes, with some treble roll-off.  Nice for robust treble cans, like the DT-1990.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm only on a Vali 2+ with an EH6922 gold, but I absolutely LOVE the way it sounds.  I don't use it as a pre-amp though. I use it as a contrast to my Jotunheim 2 and as my work  laptop amp (with the Hel 2 as the DAC). But really if I could go back, I think I would've went with a Lyr 3 instead of a Jot 2 due to the desire for tubes now.
> 
> In the future, I'd like a Lyr 3 maybe with new add in DAC.



Only downside of the Lyr is that it's single ended only


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 27, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Only downside of the Lyr is that it's single ended only


That's kinda why I want one as the SE to my Jot 2's Balance output. One powerful amp for both applications.

I also want a K701 which isn't balanced and wouldn't be easy to do. But man K701s doubled in price. It seems.


----------



## halcyon

duranxv said:


> Has anyone used a tube pre-amp in their audio setup?  I was thinking of introducing some tubes to see how it affects sound signature in games


I had a 6SN7 tube amp and when I was using X7, I used to pipe the output to that. If you like tubes, you might like that, especially with Creative cards and if your headphones are trending towards cold-analytical.

Unfortunately I sold my tube headphone amp, due to having to scale down the setup. One day I'll buy another tube amp, I loved it!


----------



## Chastity

*Redscape Version 1.4.0*

*General* 

Head Tracker firmware has been updated. Tracking is more efficient and stable.
Lowered CPU usage of Head Tracker window.
LFE channel is now low-passed at 300 Hz.
 *EQ* 

The equalizer now has a gain slider on the right side of the graph.
 *Settings Menu* 

Added _Surround Channels -3 dB in Downmix_ option. When enabled and the 3D effect is turned off, surround channel's contribution to the downmix will be lowered 3 dB.
Added _Always Show In Taskbar_ option. This will keep Redscape visible in the taskbar even when minimized.
Added _Toggle EQ When Power Is Toggled_ option. This will toggle the EQ on/off when the 3D effect is turned on/off.
Output Format now defaults to Shared mode when using WASAPI.
Added a warning on Audio I/O tab that will display if Redscape is not the default audio device.
Added a warning on Audio I/O tab that will display if Redscape is attempting to output to the current default audio device (selected in the Windows control panel.)
Power On/Off volumes match more closely.
Rebalanced channel levels and added channel level sliders on the Speakers tab.
 *Fixes* 

Only list WASAPI render devices. Prior to this change, capture devices would also be listed.
WASAPI fix for some audio devices that use 24 bit data wrapped in 32 bits.
Fixed a bug that could incorrectly cause the following message to display: "Buffer underrun. Try increasing the Buffer size in the Settings menu.
Fixed a bug that would mute channels if speaker levels were modified in the Settings menu


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> *Redscape Version 1.4.0*
> 
> *General*
> 
> ...



Ryan at Redscape is awesome.  I made him aware of two bugs recently, and he already had an update ready to go to fix them


----------



## darky_mtp

Thanks MLE for your GC7 review.
I think you're the only one to point out broken SBX on this device.

I recorded some samples to pinpoint what's going wrong.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-uPvHa8vNgJdEMlaZMP6rbbBTU0NerZH?usp=sharing
(As usual, disable all sound processing to ear this files)


Normal = No effect, no surround, just stereo output.
Surround = No effect, SBX surround set to 33%.
Proper = VSS software
5.1/7.1 = Settings used on the device in Windows

5.1-normal : It's OK, stereo output.
5.1-surround-33 : Surround and rear-surround are identical, albeit not rear placed (SB-z is doing the same).
7.1-normal : Rear-surround voice has echo.
7.1-surround-33 : Rear-surround is just stereo, not surround. The end part (all voices together) have echo.
7.1-proper : Perfect, as it should be on GC7 (I used a virtual surround software ).

I don't know what to do, keep the GC7 and hoping a firmware update or send it back.
Do you know if it's possible to downgrade firmware ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The latest update did seem to break some things, but I know Creative eventually fixes the issues we let them know about.

I think Surround at 5.1 was working for me though. I'll have to recheck. It was only 7.1 that was broken.

I don't use 33% though, I use 100. Makes it easier to discern the rear cues.

Just give them time. It'll improve. X7 and G6 were a mess on release, and updates fixes basically everything.


----------



## darky_mtp

Right now I'm using HeSuVi to get SBX working properly.


----------



## Chastity

Just wanted to drop a note on these new headphones I grabbed.  I decided to grab the upgrade to my M1070, the Monolith M1570, and it just destroys the M1070 in quality.  These are easily entry-grade summit-fi headphones.  Just did some gaming, and I navigated a building maze to locate an enemy position by audio alone, using the sound of their combat.  And it was just so easy.  These drivers throw forward a lot of resolution, and none of the FR steps on each other, instead it smoothly blends into each other.  Cues image well in the sound stage, and they're open cans, and wider in stage than say the LCD-X.  They take wide room settings very well, like Spatial setting in DTS:X or dialing up Redscape to the max.  (Movies are awesome too)

Bass extension runs deep, is tight, and has impact and slam.  And the bass doesn't bleed into the mids.  Mids are forward and well placed, and the treble is amazing.  Cymbals have impact, and crash.  These are not laid back and chill cans, nor are they dark.  And like Audeze planars, they've got some weight, but the headband does a good job of distributing the weight.

And the best part:  they're affordable.  In fact, they're on sale at at Monoprice's Ebay Storefront and walmart.com for $400.99, and have a 5-yr warranty.

Just note they do not share Audeze's mini-xlr pinouts, so make sure you get the correct cable if you need a balanced connection.  Monoprice doesn't make a cable for some unknown reason. Periapt and Hart Audio make cables for these.


----------



## darky_mtp

darky_mtp said:


> Do you know if it's possible to downgrade firmware ?


I downgraded to 1.1.
SBx is different but broken too.
Left and righ surround are stereo.
Rear surround are left and right surround.
So back to 1.2 and HeSuVi.


----------



## catoplato

Hi,

I'm looking for advice for improving audio in Warzone. I am trying to improve verticality cues as well as keeping positioning accurate.

I own HD800s/bifrost multib (older gen)/valhalla 2 as well as Astro A50s.

I own atmos as well as Redscape. Redscape has great positional cues, but it's lack of verticality is frustrating. Is there an all-in one solution or should I just stick with Atmos?

Is there any reason to use the A50s anymore or a way to improve them? I have only tried Atmos.

What audio setting should I use in game? Is there a recommended EQ software and settings?

Thanks!


----------



## illram

catoplato said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for advice for improving audio in Warzone. I am trying to improve verticality cues as well as keeping positioning accurate.
> 
> ...


There is no verticality in WZ audio. It's spatial audio is hot garbage. I've tried atmos and dts:X and neither are good with vertical audio. Basically you're better off sticking with whatever gets you the best 7.1 and forgetting about anything else until they fix whatever they are doing under the hood.

DTS:X might be the best compromise if you still want to try and get some verticality as it's rear cues are way better than atmos to my ears. Atmos rear cues have no depth, they sound like they are at the back of my neck. But if you have Redscape already I wouldn't bother as it's rear cues are just as good if not better.

Astros will do nothing, no reason to use those over the HD800.


----------



## catoplato

illram said:


> There is no verticality in WZ audio. It's spatial audio is hot garbage. I've tried atmos and dts:X and neither are good with vertical audio. Basically you're better off sticking with whatever gets you the best 7.1 and forgetting about anything else until they fix whatever they are doing under the hood.
> 
> DTS:X might be the best compromise if you still want to try and get some verticality as it's rear cues are way better than atmos to my ears. Atmos rear cues have no depth, they sound like they are at the back of my neck. But if you have Redscape already I wouldn't bother as it's rear cues are just as good if not better.
> 
> Astros will do nothing, no reason to use those over the HD800.


Thanks for your reply. When you use Redscape, are you on the game or music setting? Are you using boost/boost high/boost low in the game?


----------



## illram

catoplato said:


> Thanks for your reply. When you use Redscape, are you on the game or music setting? Are you using boost/boost high/boost low in the game?


I use Game and make the room a lot bigger on the dial. I use boost low in game.


----------



## Chastity

catoplato said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for advice for improving audio in Warzone. I am trying to improve verticality cues as well as keeping positioning accurate.
> 
> ...


To get the vertical cues, your game needs to generate them, and needs to support 7.1.4 or 360 degree.  Any game that supports DTS:X or Atmos streaming should have this capability, and use the matching Windows Spatial plug-in to create your HRTF.


----------



## illram (Sep 1, 2021)

Chastity said:


> To get the vertical cues, your game needs to generate them, and needs to support 7.1.4 or 360 degree.  Any game that supports DTS:X or Atmos streaming should have this capability, and use the matching Windows Spatial plug-in to create your HRTF.


Not every game is equal in this regard though. That's the issue with WZ, they claim Atmos compatibility but it is not as good as other games that have it. One can test this by firing up an Overwatch game with bots and testing vertical cues (very apparent) with Atmos on, and then firing up a Warzone bot match (practice) and listening for the same verticality with Atmos enabled in Windows. Just not there.

Not sure if that has anything to do with Overwatch having Atmos in game settings, vs. Windows handling everything when it comes to Warzone, but from a consumer standpoint when you are selling "Atmos" as a brand for a certain level of audio, that shouldn't matter. Everything should "just work" but sadly in this niche that is rarely the case...


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> Not every game is equal in this regard though. That's the issue with WZ, they claim Atmos compatibility but it is not as good as other games that have it. One can test this by firing up an Overwatch game with bots and testing vertical cues (very apparent) with Atmos on, and then firing up a Warzone bot match (practice) and listening for the same verticality with Atmos enabled in Windows. Just not there.
> 
> Not sure if that has anything to do with Overwatch having Atmos in game settings, vs. Windows handling everything when it comes to Warzone, but from a consumer standpoint when you are selling "Atmos" as a brand for a certain level of audio, that shouldn't matter. Everything should "just work" but sadly in this niche that is rarely the case...


Warzone would need to have a specific Audio option of Dolby Atmos output, and generate the 11.1 audio channels, and output and encoded Atmos stream..  If Windows handles everything in Warzone, then it doesn't.


----------



## illram

Chastity said:


> Warzone would need to have a specific Audio option of Dolby Atmos output, and generate the 11.1 audio channels, and output and encoded Atmos stream..  If Windows handles everything in Warzone, then it doesn't.


No. The game does not need to have the option. Bordlerlands 3 has atmos streams without an in game atmos option (in fact they removed it, since it was confusing, because Windows is meant to handle it, that's the design now.) 

The game just needs to output the stream, and it will output what Windows tells it to. In any case it is moot since Activision specifically advertises that it is Atmos compatible, but it clearly does not work very well.


----------



## jincuteguy

I tried WZ with Redscape and it just lag.  I got lower FPS and the game was stuttering.  Anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The game just lags and stutters with or withiout Redscape to me, lol. At least in the beginning and pre-game lobbies. Once you land in the main game match, the game plays perfectly.

Remember that Redscape has a latency/buffer setting, as well as exclusive/shared mode. Perhaps try a combination of these if it's doing anything weird.

I usually use Shared mode, because if I use exclusive, I tend to forget to turn it off, and it mutes my normal source outside of Redscape. With Shared, I feel the latency is just fine and I don't have to worry about turning it off.


----------



## illram

jincuteguy said:


> I tried WZ with Redscape and it just lag.  I got lower FPS and the game was stuttering.  Anyone else had this issue?


Try turning the headtracker window off? The latest update mentioned it fixed some issue with it hogging CPU.


----------



## jincuteguy (Sep 2, 2021)

illram said:


> Try turning the headtracker window off? The latest update mentioned it fixed some issue with it hogging CPU.


There's no option to turn off the Headtrack.  And I'm not using a Headtracker, the status for the Headtracker says " disconnected" since i'm not using one.

But did you have this issue when playing Warzone or fps games?


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> There's no option to turn off the Headtrack.  And I'm not using a Headtracker, the status for the Headtracker says " disconnected" since i'm not using one.
> 
> But did you have this issue when playing Warzone or fps games?


I've never had an issue where any of my VSS apps introduced latency or lag/stutter to any game I've played.  FYI.


----------



## jincuteguy (Sep 2, 2021)

Chastity said:


> I've never had an issue where any of my VSS apps introduced latency or lag/stutter to any game I've played.  FYI.


But did you use Redscape and play Warzone? I have no issue with Wave NX


----------



## illram (Sep 2, 2021)

jincuteguy said:


> There's no option to turn off the Headtrack.  And I'm not using a Headtracker, the status for the Headtracker says " disconnected" since i'm not using one.
> 
> But did you have this issue when playing Warzone or fps games?


I mean the window with the image of the head. Also the EQ window. I find having any of their windows open on my other monitor at the same time I am playing does weird things to my frames, I have no idea what it is.

Warzone has all sorts of random stuttering at seemingly random times, it has been an issue for me that comes and goes with their seasonal updates. Some seasons it is more or less fine, some seasons (this one) something they did borked something else and I get crazy stuttering and crashes. I did find not having those windows open minimized it for me. But it could just be a coincidence.


----------



## jincuteguy

illram said:


> I mean the window with the image of the head. Also the EQ window. I find having any of their windows open on my other monitor at the same time I am playing does weird things to my frames, I have no idea what it is.
> 
> Warzone has all sorts of random stuttering at seemingly random times, it has been an issue for me that comes and goes with their seasonal updates. Some seasons it is more or less fine, some seasons (this one) something they did borked something else and I get crazy lag. I did find not having those windows open minimized it for me.


The window with the image of the head has no Options.  If I click on the wheel icon (in the window with the head image) it just bring me back to the Headtracking settings.  Here is how it looks like 
https://gyazo.com/dda80a2d20b28feb864384788e479dff

Um if I'm not using Redscape at all, my Warzone game is smooth as butter.


----------



## Chastity

jincuteguy said:


> The window with the image of the head has no Options.  If I click on the wheel icon (in the window with the head image) it just bring me back to the Headtracking settings.  Here is how it looks like
> https://gyazo.com/dda80a2d20b28feb864384788e479dff
> 
> Um if I'm not using Redscape at all, my Warzone game is smooth as butter.


Try forcing the CPU affinity for Redscape to not use Core 0/1.  You may be hammering the first core while gaming.


----------



## illram (Sep 2, 2021)

jincuteguy said:


> The window with the image of the head has no Options.  If I click on the wheel icon (in the window with the head image) it just bring me back to the Headtracking settings.  Here is how it looks like
> https://gyazo.com/dda80a2d20b28feb864384788e479dff
> 
> Um if I'm not using Redscape at all, my Warzone game is smooth as butter.


I meant close it. Click the X. You don't need any Redscape windows open to use it, just set it as you want and close everything out.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Jin do you have a semi-decent rig? It may be that Redscape is hitting your CPU, and your CPU can't take it? I dunno. I run with an 8700K, no issue.


----------



## MarkDraconian

jincuteguy said:


> I tried WZ with Redscape and it just lag.  I got lower FPS and the game was stuttering.  Anyone else had this issue?


I remember Redscape using like 17-20% of cpu just to watch 5.1 movie, and i just have a 3200G, so if your cpu is not so great like mine Redscape can use a lot of cpu


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> I meant close it. Click the X. You don't need any Redscape windows open to use it, just set it as you want and close everything out.


Closing the Redscape app causes the output to go silent.  Leave it minimized.


----------



## illram

Chastity said:


> Closing the Redscape app causes the output to go silent.  Leave it minimized.


You can close the head tracker window though.


----------



## jincuteguy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Jin do you have a semi-decent rig? It may be that Redscape is hitting your CPU, and your CPU can't take it? I dunno. I run with an 8700K, no issue.


Yea I have a decent rig, maybe I'm just unlucky with the software.


----------



## illram (Sep 3, 2021)

I was bored and searched for the thread that got me started on my headphone obsession. It was a HD598 sale thread. I still have these headphones, and am still a fan of the 598. Was almost 1 year after this that I found this thread, and the rest is history….

Post in thread 'Sennheiser HD598 $95.00 - Amazon'
https://hardforum.com/threads/sennheiser-hd598-95-00-amazon.1883280/post-1041997743


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2021)

illram said:


> I was bored and searched for the thread that got me started on my headphone obsession. It was a HD598 sale thread. I still have these headphones, and am still a fan of the 598. Was almost 1 year after this that I found this thread, and the rest is history….
> 
> Post in thread 'Sennheiser HD598 $95.00 - Amazon'
> https://hardforum.com/threads/sennheiser-hd598-95-00-amazon.1883280/post-1041997743


I unfortunately never had the real time to do a proper review of the 598. I think my time was too brief to give them a real chance. I know Senn has never really disappointed me, and I like the PC360 which was based on the 595, so it should stand to reason I would've liked the 598 just as much.

The 598 review I have is one of those I wanted to take down, mainly because it's based on too short of a time with them (2 days). But back then I wanted to write up as many impressions as possible as a sort of database on what I like and don't like. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.


----------



## inseconds99

Have and Xbox Series X connected via hdmi 2.1 to LG CX. I then set the tv to optical out for the sound, passthrough and sync bypass. I have my optical cable connected to a Dac/Amp and then to my HD800s and HD58x. Should I set the Xbox to do stereo uncompressed or bitstream? Also, are the settings I am using on the TV correct? 

I ask this as for some reason audio seems to be all over the place and I cannot get an accurate sound to pinpoint footsteps or any other markers while gaming online. Any support would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2021)

I would send Bitstream to the X7. To make it simple, have the Xbox send Dolby Digital bitstream to the TV, and the TV must ALSO be outputting bitstream. Since you have an LG Oled (so do I), make sure to ONLY have the audio output set to Optical out. Do not do Optical + speaker or anything, because it will truncate the sound down to 2channel for some reason. I didn't realize this for a LONG time. Make sure the X7 is given a fresh 5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream feed only. No DTS, no anything else. If the TV is doing its job right, it should be converting everything to DD 5.1 anyways.


----------



## inseconds99 (Sep 3, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I would send Bitstream to the X7. To make it simple, have the Xbox send Dolby Digital bitstream to the TV, and the TV must ALSO be outputting bitstream. Since you have an LG Oled (so do I), make sure to ONLY have the audio output set to Optical out. Do not do Optical + speaker or anything, because it will truncate the sound down to 2channel for some reason. I didn't realize this for a LONG time. Make sure the X7 is given a fresh 5.1 Dolby Digital bitstream feed only. No DTS, no anything else. If the TV is doing its job right, it should be converting everything to DD 5.1 anyways.


Appreciate the insight, that's how I have it setup to my X7 but I am curious on how you'd set it up when using say an Maxtrix Mini I pro 3 or an Topping DX7 Pro? I am talking about non virtual surround at this point, connecting with a more premium dac/amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Sep 3, 2021)

Oh you're using non-surround dac/amps? I just assumed you were using your X7 on the sig. Don't wanna sound like a butt, but that's the problem right there. You're not gonna get anywhere near any pinpoint accuracy with stereo, regardless of what the audio elitist lead you to believe. There's no replacement for actual surround cues.

Now...if you want Dolby Atmos with the Xbox, then you can use your non-surround gear and get accurate cues.

In any case, for setting up non-surround gear, you use LPCM to your stereo DAC. Don't use Bitstream or you'll get garbled noise.


----------



## inseconds99

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh you're using non-surround dac/amps? I just assumed you were using your X7 on the sig. Don't wanna sound like a butt, but that's the problem right there. You're not gonna get anywhere near any pinpoint accuracy with stereo, regardless of what the audio elitist lead you to believe. There's no replacement for actual surround cues.
> 
> Now...if you want Dolby Atmos with the Xbox, then you can use your non-surround gear and get accurate cues.
> 
> In any case, for setting up non-surround gear, you use LPCM to your stereo DAC. Don't use Bitstream or you'll get garbled noise.


Thats what I figured, I am going to set the Xbox to stereo uncompressed and the LG CX to PCM and passthrough, correct? I am just doing it mostly because of switching amps in and out on the desk, not much room LOL. HD800s sound much better from those dac/amps then the X7 unfortunately.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You know that the X7 can send it's surround to your other dac if it has an optical input, right? That way you get the benefit of the better dac/amp without giving up the SBX surround which will give you actual positional cues. I mean I'm sure you know, just wanna reiterate that.

But yes, uncompressed LPCM all through the chain for stereo.


----------



## catoplato

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Oh you're using non-surround dac/amps? I just assumed you were using your X7 on the sig. Don't wanna sound like a butt, but that's the problem right there. You're not gonna get anywhere near any pinpoint accuracy with stereo, regardless of what the audio elitist lead you to believe. There's no replacement for actual surround cues.
> 
> Now...if you want Dolby Atmos with the Xbox, then you can use your non-surround gear and get accurate cues.
> 
> In any case, for setting up non-surround gear, you use LPCM to your stereo DAC. Don't use Bitstream or you'll get garbled noise.


what about redscape on a PC to s stereo dac/amp? Or do I need to buy an amp like a g7?


----------



## illram

catoplato said:


> what about redscape on a PC to s stereo dac/amp? Or do I need to buy an amp like a g7?


Redscape is doing the virtual surround processing already, I.e. taking 7.1 channels and converting it to 2 channels for your headphones, so you definitely only want to output it to a stereo dac\amp. You don’t want to add any processing on top of it.

Hardware like the G7 is only if you don’t already have a virtual surround solution you like.


----------



## inseconds99

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You know that the X7 can send it's surround to your other dac if it has an optical input, right? That way you get the benefit of the better dac/amp without giving up the SBX surround which will give you actual positional cues. I mean I'm sure you know, just wanna reiterate that.
> 
> But yes, uncompressed LPCM all through the chain for stereo.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> You know that the X7 can send it's surround to your other dac if it has an optical input, right? That way you get the benefit of the better dac/amp without giving up the SBX surround which will give you actual positional cues. I mean I'm sure you know, just wanna reiterate that.
> 
> But yes, uncompressed LPCM all through the chain for stereo.


Very true. Forgot about that option. Does it output SBX out of the L/R also or only optical. Just wondering if I should just bust out a small THX amp and connect it to the stereo out.


----------



## Chastity

inseconds99 said:


> Very true. Forgot about that option. Does it output SBX out of the L/R also or only optical. Just wondering if I should just bust out a small THX amp and connect it to the stereo out.


The X7, like the G6, can apply 7.1 Virtualization over analog line-out or digital-out SPDIF.


----------



## Lay. (Sep 6, 2021)

illram said:


> I was bored and searched for the thread that got me started on my headphone obsession. It was a HD598 sale thread. I still have these headphones, and am still a fan of the 598. Was almost 1 year after this that I found this thread, and the rest is history….
> 
> Post in thread 'Sennheiser HD598 $95.00 - Amazon'
> https://hardforum.com/threads/sennheiser-hd598-95-00-amazon.1883280/post-1041997743



HD598's are one of those headphones that are not going anywhere. I have used them so many years while gaming that I have lost count and now my 7 year old son is using them. Now my go to gaming headphones are HD800S but I could easily still play with HD598's.


----------



## indradinho

Hello my friends.. I'm Indra from Indonesia. I want to thank @Mad Lust Envy , @illram and other active members for this thread.. 

I'm no audiophile, nor gamer. Just a movie lover. About a year ago, I start searching about how to watch movies properly with headphone. I can't utilize a true multi speaker set because it'll be too noisy for my neighbourhood. I start the rabbit hole; with a few headphones, dac/amp, VSS software with no real satisfying result. "Silent home theater" is a super niche hobby, I guess.

Thanks to this thread, I found the answer (the audiophile community might refer to this as an "endgame"?). A Samsung 4K TV and 4K disc player, PS4 Pro, Creative GC7 with SXFI on, and Sennheiser HD800 is a good alternative to a real movie theater. Not perfect, but I'm quite satisfied.

Indeed, GC7 is a complicated gadget, and very confusing to beginners like me. More over, the bass from HD800 is adequate but sometime just not enough. Even so, the soundfield from HD800+SXFI combo is super wide and convincing. I can tell where the sound is coming from, just like in a movie theater with 7.1 system. Especially the sound from the "front speakers" truly feels like coming from in front of me. Other VSS (software and hardware) are far less convincing in this respect. 

A usual audiophile dac/amp is only stereo; even the mighty HD800 feels like a headphone (well, duh). 3D head tracking from Audeze Mobius is not good enough. Dolby Headphone from 2013's Astro Mixamp have a convincing "front speaker" but the rest is not good, and the juice is not enough for HD800. OOYH from Darrin Fong is actually convincing enough, but sadly I can't utilize this on my TV, 4K disc player, and PS4. Not to mention I use Mac OS; no access to Hesuvi and EQ APO. So, the SXFI and GC7 is a definitive answer to my quest.

Once again, I just want to thank you all! Sorry for bad English, I hope this message is understandable


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm glad that's working for you. I would've thought the GC7 not to have enough power for the HD800. But if it works for you, that's great!

And yes, SXFI is a game changer. Glad someone else can agree.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> And yes, SXFI is a game changer. Glad someone else can agree.


When there is a SXFi device that can output over SPDIF to my higher end DAC, let me know


----------



## illram (Sep 8, 2021)

The new SXFI Carrier (their SXFI enabled Atmos soundbar) has a USB-out which some reviews say is "SXFI enabled", and it is even labeled on the device as an "SXFI Out" port. But there is no further explanation other than it is designed to be used with their wireless dongle.







All the reviews utilize that USB out for the USB Theater wireless headphones....but I wonder if the USB-out actually just feeds SXFI out to anything that takes USB audio?? If so this would be the first thing that has SXFi out of any type. Sadly it is $1000, and as a soundbar it is not exactly easy to just incorporate it into your desktop PC audio setup, so this won't be one of my impulse purchases anytime soon.

It is nonetheless interesting as it claims Atmos capability with SXFI, which would be new (if it was actually virtualizing an Atmos room). It also decodes DD+ from consoles, so since it has HDMI in/out it would actually work perfectly in a living room setup with a console. No need for optical splitters or routing audio through your TV optical out which is needed for the GC7.


----------



## indradinho (Sep 9, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm glad that's working for you. I would've thought the GC7 not to have enough power for the HD800. But if it works for you, that's great!
> 
> And yes, SXFI is a game changer. Glad someone else can agree.



Yes, it turns out that the GC7 (high gain) is strong enough for the HD800, although sometimes the headroom is small for certain somewhat low-volume content--usually Netflix/Apple iTunes movies. If I want more volume / bass for action movies, I will grab my Audeze LCD-GX (I mostly bought it because of your review.. very enjoyable for modern pop music.. truly an underrated headphone ).. For music, I use HD800 or GX with my Fiio K5 Pro.. Yes, it's an $170 entry level dac/amp, but adequate enough for HD800; nothing can't be fixed with EQ 



illram said:


> It is nonetheless interesting as it claims Atmos capability with SXFI, which would be new (if it was actually virtualizing an Atmos room). It also decodes DD+ from consoles, so since it has HDMI in/out it would actually work perfectly in a living room setup with a console. No need for optical splitters or routing audio through your TV optical out which is needed for the GC7.


Hopefully Creative release another cheaper SXFI devices with HDMI capabilities.. Or at least allowing the SXFI feature to be passed on to other amplifiers via optical out. Come on, Creative, you can do it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Audeze sent me a current year LCD-X (at a friend's house, gotta pick it up on the weekend). Will be interesting to see how little or how much the GX has in common with it. The 2C is definitely noticeably warmer than the GX.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Audeze sent me a current year LCD-X (at a friend's house, gotta pick it up on the weekend). Will be interesting to see how little or how much the GX has in common with it. The 2C is definitely noticeably warmer than the GX.


These are staying with me! You can’t have them!


----------



## illram

indradinho said:


> Yes, it turns out that the GC7 (high gain) is strong enough for the HD800, although sometimes the headroom is small for certain somewhat low-volume content--usually Netflix/Apple iTunes movies. If I want more volume / bass for action movies, I will grab my Audeze LCD-GX (I mostly bought it because of your review.. very enjoyable for modern pop music.. truly an underrated headphone ).. For music, I use HD800 or GX with my Fiio K5 Pro.. Yes, it's an $170 entry level dac/amp, but adequate enough for HD800; nothing can't be fixed with EQ
> 
> 
> Hopefully Creative release another cheaper SXFI devices with HDMI capabilities.. Or at least allowing the SXFI feature to be passed on to other amplifiers via optical out. Come on, Creative, you can do it!


There was supposed to be the SXFI TV, which was basically an HDMI input, USB output SXFI device. This was previewed over 2 years ago but as far as I know, never released.

It's product literature said it only worked with either SXFI Theater wireless USB dongles, or another USB SXFI device that has your SXFI profile on it. I.e. it simply took an HDMI in and transmitted multichannel PCM audio out the USB ports, for another SXFI device to handle. If the product specs were to be believed. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the SXFI Carrier USB "SXFI out" port is the exact same thing. Which would be disappointing.


----------



## anaguma

Searched the thread but couldn't see many posts about the LCD 2 closed. How do people think this would stack up for gaming?

Planning on running this for PS4/PS5 using just the Creative G6 for now and hooking up a GX mic cable to it. I need something closed back for good WAF, other suggestions welcome.


----------



## Sam21 (Sep 11, 2021)

@Mad Lust Envy:

I have a question about the *Tritton AX 720 *decoder box that you reviewed: When you were testing the unit, which headphones did you use with it ? could you get them to a loud enough level  ?

I have connected my AX720 to PC with a USB cable and cant get my KSC35s to a loud enough level...

Many Thanks


----------



## greyforest

i would like a superxfi through optic out as well...trying all the virtual 7.1 solution but nothing is really that
good, for now i am sticking with waves nx

have anybody tried hive immerse？ how is it compare to other solution


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> have anybody tried hive immerse？ how is it compare to other solution


You can install it for free as a demo, and it's fully functional.  I didn't find it overly amazing, and dislike the subscription model.  Why bother when you can get Waves NX or Redscape and pay only once.  Also, it's annoying they broke it up into several apps for specific brands, and you cannot import headphone profiles into a master app.  For example, I have a DT-1990, and the Beyer profile worked really nice, but I have other headphones too.  Also, many of my headphones did not have native profiles.  The ones they have are for gamer headphones.


----------



## greyforest

Chastity said:


> You can install it for free as a demo, and it's fully functional.  I didn't find it overly amazing, and dislike the subscription model.  Why bother when you can get Waves NX or Redscape and pay only once.  Also, it's annoying they broke it up into several apps for specific brands, and you cannot import headphone profiles into a master app.  For example, I have a DT-1990, and the Beyer profile worked really nice, but I have other headphones too.  Also, many of my headphones did not have native profiles.  The ones they have are for gamer headphones.


you are right, i just give it a go. And very mediocre indeed...

so far my best combo, its gonna sounds strange but....waves nx output to creative sbx(with sbx virtual surround on)  and digital out to external dac&amp.

i know it’s been applied hrtf twice, but the result is a very large sound stage with very deep frontal depth.


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> you are right, i just give it a go. And very mediocre indeed...
> 
> so far my best combo, its gonna sounds strange but....waves nx output to creative sbx(with sbx virtual surround on)  and digital out to external dac&amp.
> 
> i know it’s been applied hrtf twice, but the result is a very large sound stage with very deep frontal depth.


Did you calibrate your Waves NX?  Seems like you did not.


----------



## greyforest

Chastity said:


> Did you calibrate your Waves NX?  Seems like you did not.


i did put in the head measurement is that what you refer as calibrate？


----------



## illram

greyforest said:


> you are right, i just give it a go. And very mediocre indeed...
> 
> so far my best combo, its gonna sounds strange but....waves nx output to creative sbx(with sbx virtual surround on)  and digital out to external dac&amp.
> 
> i know it’s been applied hrtf twice, but the result is a very large sound stage with very deep frontal depth.


I also thought immerse was awful sounding. 


Is your double-virtualization at all accurate, though? Like stuff behind you is behind you etc.? I don't see how the virtualization can hold up with different convolutions on top of one another.


----------



## greyforest

illram said:


> I also thought immerse was awful sounding.
> 
> 
> Is your double-virtualization at all accurate, though? Like stuff behind you is behind you etc.? I don't see how the virtualization can hold up with different convolutions on top of one another.


oddly they do....position was solid. waves nx doing the heavy lifting to pinpoint position. sbx simply add reverb into the signal. waves nx outputs stereo signal to sbx


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sam21 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy:
> 
> I have a question about the *Tritton AX 720 *decoder box that you reviewed: When you were testing the unit, which headphones did you use with it ? could you get them to a loud enough level  ?
> 
> ...


Sorry it was very long ago, and I'm definitely not confident in telling you what I used back then with them. You might want to make sure the PC windows volume is set accordingly. You may have it accidentally set too low. I usually set all my DACs to 90/100. 

The KSC35 does have a relatively higher than standard impedance, and can require a bit more than one would think. In my case, it requires more than the LCD-X in terms of raw volume level.


----------



## Sam21

@Mad Lust Envy:

For some reason the volume was low through USB on PC....I used optical in with my PS2 console and the volume is adequate.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Sam21 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy:
> 
> For some reason the volume was low through USB on PC....I used optical in with my PS2 console and the volume is adequate.


Yeah just make sure the PC windows icon volume is set high. There shouldn't be a dramatic difference in volume there unless your USB ports are very low output voltage.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hey Guys some updates on the GC7: The Creative rep gave me some responses to some of my questions. His replies are in bold.


_*1.* The Surround function on the GC7 is not properly handling 7.1/5.1 channel into headphone surround. The rear positional cues don't sound like they're mixing down from a rear channel source. The G6's SBX surround implementation sounds much better in comparison, with proper surround cues._


*We identified a bug in the channel mapping and we will be rolling a fix for this in addition to other device optimization. The consolidated update is planned for release latest within these 2 months. We’ll keep you updated when it’s released. Great that you caught it! Most folks couldn’t tell the difference 😊*


_*2. *The most recent GC7 update seems to have messed up SXFI. It sounds like there's additional echo/reverb/processing being done, and it all sounds incredibly wonky. Almost like two things are being processed at once. Was the Surround function setting mixed up with SXFI, and now both are being done at once? That's kind of what it sounds like._

*The latest SXFI profiling includes optimizing the ambient size which eliminates excessive echo which was a heavily requested improvement. In order to enjoy the latest profile, it is best to check if the latest head and ear map capture was done in 2020 and later. Otherwise a fresh capture may be required. Let us know if this helps?* 

_*3.* The community is still waiting on an update to allow SXFI headphone DSP to be sent through the analog/optical out for other dac and amps to take care of. This was done for Creative's surround implementations, and we'd like the same thing for SXFI. Atm moment, it's not possible, and we'd really like a patch for this._


*We aim to incorporate SXFI processed audio for GC7 via line-out. Once we have a specific date, we’ll let you know. Pathing via Optical is not in the plans at the moment though.*

It's a shame they're not planning on routing SXFI through the optical out. I should ask if it's possible even though not planned.


----------



## NewCoke

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's a shame they're not planning on routing SXFI through the optical out. I should ask if it's possible even though not planned



Speaking of preamping (I don't know if that's the correct term?)...

Is it possible to pair the Sennheiser GSX 1000 with the iFi Zen DAC V2?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

NewCoke said:


> Speaking of preamping (I don't know if that's the correct term?)...
> 
> Is it possible to pair the Sennheiser GSX 1000 with the iFi Zen DAC V2?


No. The Zen DAC is a source first, amp second. The GSX1000 is also a source first, amp second. Neither have analog input and therefore can't be used as amp only.

You could use some dubious analog to digital converter, but that is just a mess and you may as well just get other gear.


----------



## illram

Well at least they're planning on sending SXFI out somehow. Even if there's a weird limitation to not allow it over optical.


----------



## greyforest

why creative refuse to give digital out for superxfi? avoid reverse engineering?


----------



## Fegefeuer

Bonkers how Creative still needs to be convinced to allow pathing SXFi through optical, after so many hardware generations.


----------



## haziqzaq

Any recommendations to get the most out of a HD660s that will be used on a PS5? Pretty new to this area so bear with me if I need to ask how to connect the devices (eg two separate DAC and amps, or stacks) from PS5 to headphones.


----------



## duranxv

Speaking of Creative, just had my 2nd AE-9 card crap out on me.  These cards just aren't suited for op-amp swapping and their voltage control is crummy.  From now on, I'm only using their external devices and ONLY if SxFi will be available via optical into a real DAC.


----------



## whitedragem (Sep 19, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Hello
> 1) please tell how to run G6 in direct mode? I want to use it with ps5 to get tempest 3D audio. No sbx, only tempest!
> 2) run ratchet and clank and in menu they said that 3D audio (tempest) work with headphones plug into controller or by pulse 3D headset. So it’s not working with external usb dac?(I mean creative G6)
> 3) I try to connect my headphones to controller in ratchet and clank, and I can said it’s not a bad sound. I don’t notice much difference between this and G6 connection


It will work.

3D Audio (which tracks soundwaves off surfaces, and the surfaces alter the sound), AND uses HRTFs to place sound effects in 3D surround around us (lots of things can do this part of the trick, eg binaural renderers), certainly DOES work on the Playstation USB output.

Latest Playstation firmware allows sending 3D audio signal via TV (or Soundbar, which you might have to trick playstation into believing IS the TV) and using controllers microphone to tailor sound based on room acoustics, is ‘different’ to the 3D audio that the controller gets.. ie 3D audio via HDMI is NOT WHAT WE WANT FOR HEADPHONES; which will still NEED USB output/controller headphone jack/Sony official headset...

I use USB out (cambridge DAC with selectable UAC1/2 modes, or a FiiO BTA30 (as a DAC) or (preferably) an iFi DAC (with 7.2 firmwares that support consoles (tested with Switch and PS5; good))..

USB out, PCM (2 channel) and turn game settings to headphones (in some games), and voila.
Do use the Playstation setup menu to choose which of the 5 HRTF customisations work best for you (I use five different types of headphones and find that three of the profiles suit them.. so check each headset seperately for what makes it sound the best... - just find an area in a game like Returnal where there are sounds above, below and around the player and rotate the camera.. and swap to another profile and repeat .. one setting will seem PERFECT).

Just make sure, as you have been doing, to keep OFF all downstream effects processing (no SBX or enhancements).. ie ‘like me’ using the G6 (or as I do; the FiiO and Cambridge parts) to pass digital onto my DAC of choice (which may not have direct playstation support)..

The controller headphone port is ‘pretty good’, but with some large driver open backs I found the volume stiffled (just under the volume level I would choose). It is definitely passing some version of lossless sound and isn’t bad.

Using some Audio Technica ADG1X, the controller headphone jack was good, but choked the sound field and was ‘muffled‘ sound when compared to having an inline amplifier from the controller.
A (lowly) FiiO part did the trick; it opened the soundfield up noticably.
Rotating an Onkyo HA200 in line widened the soundstage a ‘tad’ more, but noticably gave some verticality to the sound.
Switching to an iFi Diablo (now able to run direct from console on the 7.2 firmware branch) - the soundfield was the widest/deepest and given the most verticality/latitude(height).

The GTO filter firmware (for iFi products) will essentially upsample the input as well, and would be my ‘go to’, but due to the GTO having no smearing effect (like a typical digital filter DOES) on the source, jitter from a poor USB cable may reveal itself.
A half decent USB cable and a line purifier (Playstations, like all PC are electrically ‘noisy’), and the sound from the Diablo (using GTO ‘filter’), this is untouchable.... Whilst the Diablo (raw) has regen circuits for input, and is good at isolating noise (has iFi tech for doing this built in), adding an iPurifier fixed transients and made the manta ray bolts in Demon Souls sound glassy without the harshness. Heck just the system ‘on‘ sound sounded GREAT.
Most notably though was that the music in Dirt 5 went from feeling background and like poor compressed soundfiles, to sounding like CD quality music and feeling like the bands were playing....)
I am not talking here about the Diablo sounding great (it is neutral and therefore perfect for headfi surround), but rather the affect of fixing the USB signal by using a line filter/regen.

Of course, for the OP, fibre optic out from the G6 might negate some aspects of noise,.. but I can attest that the iPurifier(3) improved soundfield and noticeably improved every aspect of digital audio from the console. (I bought one before I bought the iFi Diablo).

If anyone in Western Australia wants to try out a wee FiiO amp in line with their controller, I can meet Perth residents and loan the FiiO part. (you supply 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable)  (PMs welcome)

Headphone gaming on the Playstation is an audio revolution.. its the closest we have gotten to A3D 2 audio (aureal soundwave tracing and occlusion), and given programmers know ALL end users have capable hardware (all PS5 consoles) and the game engines now support mapping textures with surface properties for the soundwaves - this is a game changer.

I have a couple of expensive sound cards for PC gaming (such as an Auzentech Prelude and an Asus Xonar STX) and the Playstation flogs them seriously.
Dolby Headphone will mix surround effects to sound like they are around us.. but having a correctly mapped environment with positional audio cues is unbelievable.
Forrest in (Ghost of) Tsushima have insects and ‘nature effects’ -wind over trees,.. raindrops etc.. all around us.. This ISNT a recorded stereo sound file, like most RPGs would use to simulate nature and save sound channels; this feels like many hundreds of soundchannels of playback,.. all flawlessly interacting with the environ.

3D audio off means a river can pan around me.. but 3D audio on means it pans around me with the sounds of the embankment curtailing the direct reflections.. To say it is a life saver in Returnal is an understatement. (justifies the purchase to your loved ones/significant others as you will be less stressed?!) You know where everything is based on sound.

BTW the reason I popped onto the thread today was just to let Nintendo and Playstation users with iFi audio parts to be aware that the 7.2 branch of firmwares (xmos 216) supports the consoles directly (now).
I’d recommend the GTO variant (ie 7.2c).
And a USB regenerator (even something as simple as an iPurifier3) can make a night/day difference to sound stage openess and improve the musicality of the feed and the quality of sound effects. (the Manta Bolts (Demon Souls) had transients that were so harsh prior to the filter in place...)
For a ‘night out’ on the town pricepoint, having a filter was the best purchase I have made (bang/buck) for quite awhile.

Not the OP?
Another option is a Fiio BTA30 (or a range of other USB DAC + bluetooth transmitters)
FiiO BTA30 will perform USB DAC duty with the Playstation and allow digital feed out (like  a Creative E5/G6 etc), but can also transmit via bluetooth codecs such as APT X low latency/APT X HD.. (its LDAC modes may be limited by certain configurations)..
Combined with some Sennheiser IE80BT headbuds (presently 75% off), a cheap headfi setup with exceptional soundfield and high quality (low latency) playback can be created.

Whilst a few TVs can send (transmit) bluetooth, they are usually high latency/low quality and DO NOT (presently) support the Playstation headphone 3D audio...  the FiiO BTA30 was a great MacGuyver product (like the Creative E5/G6 etc).

 happy gaming y’all
(edited to fix pselling erorrs)


----------



## Jcor

whitedragem said:


> It will work.
> 
> 3D Audio (which tracks soundwaves off surfaces, and the surfaces alter the sound), AND uses HRTFs to place sound effects in 3D surround around us (lots of things can do this part of the trick, eg binaural renderers), certainly DOES work on the Playstation USB output.
> 
> ...


When you say the 7.2 firmware supports the consoles directly now, do you mean you can connect a Zen Dac v2, for example, directly to the console via USB?

I've been waiting until the Hel 2 is available again to order one to use with my PS5, but if I can get a Zen v2 now instead I'll likely just go ahead and order one.


----------



## whitedragem (Sep 19, 2021)

Jcor said:


> When you say the 7.2 firmware supports the consoles directly now, do you mean you can connect a Zen Dac v2, for example, directly to the console via USB?
> 
> I've been waiting until the Hel 2 is available again to order one to use with my PS5, but if I can get a Zen v2 now instead I'll likely just go ahead and order one.


Yes  -all iFi products capable of running the 7.2 firmware branch (which adds ‘console support’), will hook up via USB now.

Don’t just trust the firmware pages; basically all products with newest xmos chip support the firmware if the consensus on headfi is ‘reporting correctly’.

I tested a firmware ‘not approved’ for my iFi unit (a Diablo), and I can ABSOLUTELY CONFIRM, a big resounding ‘YES’.

A representative had actually told me that playstation support _wasn’t_ a thing that was necessarily due, but it turns out the Console supporting firmware has been around for months.

Tell your friends 

edit- I actually think the firmware I chose to run WAS the Zen DAC V2 firmware. (easy!)


----------



## Helvetica bold (Sep 20, 2021)

For play Battlefield 2042 on my PS5, Im thinking of pairing my Audio Technica 700x (modMic'd) with the new Fulla 4. I know the wait it several weeks for the Fulla but that should be enough to drive the 700s correct? Or...should I just splurge for the Hel 2?


----------



## Lalapuni

whitedragem said:


> It will work.
> 
> 3D Audio (which tracks soundwaves off surfaces, and the surfaces alter the sound), AND uses HRTFs to place sound effects in 3D surround around us (lots of things can do this part of the trick, eg binaural renderers), certainly DOES work on the Playstation USB output.
> 
> ...


Do you know if 3D Audio works on Fiio K5 Pro through the hdmi splitter? I connect hdmi cable from PS5 to the splitter, then put another hdmi that goes from splitter to monitor... and optical from splitter to Fiio.


----------



## Krbass

Guys,  a while back I was fed up with cords and decided to go wireless. Since I had a Logitech mouse and keyboard I went with a G935 thinking I could live with them and it kept all my peripherals under one software suite. Well long story short, I hate them. I am looking to head back to wired. I have a soundblaster G6 and was curious if anyone has the PC38x paired up with that or would I just be better off getting good headphones and a stand alone mic. I have used ant lion in the past but want to avoid 2 separate cords. I looked into a blue yeti but am worried it will just pick up every sound my 2 and 6 year old make. Maybe a V-moda mic would be good but I would need headphones that accommodate that. My budget is 350 or less for the headphones. Most games I am playing are not super competitive anymore but I do have battlefield 2042 pre ordered. I am really looking for a good sound stage but I would love something with a little impact, I feel like I have never owned a pair of headphones that give me any real bass. this thread lead me to the amazing AD700s years ago which I still have but they have seen better days. This is a seriously overwhelming thread now, any help is appreciated.


----------



## Chastity (Sep 21, 2021)

Krbass said:


> Guys,  a while back I was fed up with cords and decided to go wireless. Since I had a Logitech mouse and keyboard I went with a G935 thinking I could live with them and it kept all my peripherals under one software suite. Well long story short, I hate them. I am looking to head back to wired. I have a soundblaster G6 and was curious if anyone has the PC38x paired up with that or would I just be better off getting good headphones and a stand alone mic. I have used ant lion in the past but want to avoid 2 separate cords. I looked into a blue yeti but am worried it will just pick up every sound my 2 and 6 year old make. Maybe a V-moda mic would be good but I would need headphones that accommodate that. My budget is 350 or less for the headphones. Most games I am playing are not super competitive anymore but I do have battlefield 2042 pre ordered. I am really looking for a good sound stage but I would love something with a little impact, I feel like I have never owned a pair of headphones that give me any real bass. this thread lead me to the amazing AD700s years ago which I still have but they have seen better days. This is a seriously overwhelming thread now, any help is appreciated.


First, watch this video by Crinacle:



Then, after being illuminated by Uncle Crin, you will dispose of the notion of a headset with a mic.  It's only for convenience,  

Now, you can get a nice desk mic, a condenser one, so it only grabs audio in a single direction.  As for the phones, how are the AD700's sad?  Do they need new pads?  If you need new cans, and a budget of $350... well, that's how much the vaunted ATH-R70X are!  Any chance you can also extend the budget to incorporate a new dac/amp?  A Fulla 4 or Hel 2 may be in your future, as I have often found the G6 underpowered for most of my cans, and the analog stage of the G6 rolls off bass response.  (Both headphone out and Line Out).

If you want entry summit-fi tier quality at mid-fi prices, then you can consider the Monolith M1570.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392836505489

At $399, these are a steal, and there's a whole thread on these cans, comparing them to the LCD-X and HE-6se v2, and even the Meze Empyreans.  The M1570 are easily the best cans I own, tho at 700g, some weak necks get sassy about the weight.  I wear them all day.  The spatial imaging on these are crazy good, and the soundstage is wide.  These can be very immersive AND offer great detail on the upper end, especially after applying Oratory1990's EQ and the cans are made less dark.  This is the first set other than my Sony MDR-SA5000 where I can close my eyes, and easily discern the artists in studio or on stage, and know their placements, and they sound so realistic.  Unlike the Sony's, the FR is very full sounding and energetic, with classic planar bass response.


----------



## Krbass

Chastity said:


> As for the phones, how are the AD700's sad?  Do they need new pads?


The AD700s have pretty boring bass and the pads are shot as is a top pad that had broken off. 

That video was great and I figured that was the way to go. I guess I don't care as much about the competitive aspect of the sound. 
I want immersive with plenty of low end for explosions.


----------



## Chastity

Krbass said:


> The AD700s have pretty boring bass and the pads are shot as is a top pad that had broken off.
> 
> That video was great and I figured that was the way to go. I guess I don't care as much about the competitive aspect of the sound.
> I want immersive with plenty of low end for explosions.


Have you decided what you are going to get?


----------



## Krbass

Chastity said:


> Have you decided what you are going to get?


I have not. I spent too many hours reading through this threads reviews and I'll probably spend more time reading before I make a decision.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Look into something like an  AKG K712 Pro, Philips Fidelio X2HR, that way you have some dynamic bass, and not lose much in soundstage.


----------



## Krbass

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Look into something like an  AKG K712 Pro, Philips Fidelio X2HR, that way you have some dynamic bass, and not lose much in soundstage.


I am looking into the AKGs.  What are your thoughts on the DT990s, I always wanted to own Beyers.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have a review on them on the first page...

The only issue with them is the treble spike. It's really really prominent.


----------



## Krbass (Sep 23, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I have a review on them on the first page...
> 
> The only issue with them is the treble spike. It's really really prominent.


Not sure how I scrolled past the 990 review but I did. I will most likely get both the dt990s and the k712pros to mess around with and give my son the pair I don't like best(unless I enjoy them both). 

Only having the g6 I am thinking I'll need an amp. That's the next topic to search up.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Krbass said:


> Not sure how I scrolled past the 990 review but I did. I will most likely get both the dt990s and the k712pros to mess around with and give my son the pair I don't like best(unless I enjoy them both).
> 
> Only having the g6 I am thinking I'll need an amp. That's the next topic to search up.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


My G6 was fine with the 250ohm DT990 I had. For something similar you could try the Beyer Tygr R. Similar to the DT990 but without the table peak and much easier to drive so you won’t be restricted by the gear it’s connect to.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Krbass said:


> Not sure how I scrolled past the 990 review but I did. I will most likely get both the dt990s and the k712pros to mess around with and give my son the pair I don't like best(unless I enjoy them both).
> 
> Only having the g6 I am thinking I'll need an amp. That's the next topic to search up.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Soundmagic HP200 (32-Ohm) headphones, like an improved DT990.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/713882329


----------



## Krbass

So I ordered the DT990s, Tygr 300r and the AKG K712pro. I will test out the 3 and see what I like best. Do you guys use the G6 with an external amp for virtual surround? Looking into something like the schiit stack but not sure what combo I'd get.


----------



## Chastity

Krbass said:


> Not sure how I scrolled past the 990 review but I did. I will most likely get both the dt990s and the k712pros to mess around with and give my son the pair I don't like best(unless I enjoy them both).
> 
> Only having the g6 I am thinking I'll need an amp. That's the next topic to search up.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Having had both the G6 and DT-990 Pro 250, you will discover that the G6 can be maxed on High Gain and still be listenable.  aka it's underpowered, and you stress the G6 amp.  Also, the analog stage will roll off the bass response on your 250ohm cans.

You should consider a DT-880 model, or a Tygr 300 R.  The DT-990 was very metallic sounding, and only lasted 2 weeks with me before I gave them away.


----------



## Chastity

Krbass said:


> So I ordered the DT990s, Tygr 300r and the AKG K712pro. I will test out the 3 and see what I like best. Do you guys use the G6 with an external amp for virtual surround? Looking into something like the schiit stack but not sure what combo I'd get.


I did that with a G6 and my Asgard 3.  Then later I got a SMSL M300 MKII, and compared.  That's when I learned that the analog out rolls off the bass response, and the audio sounded grainy compared to the M300.


----------



## Lalapuni

WhiteHartMart said:


> My G6 was fine with the 250ohm DT990 I had. For something similar you could try the Beyer Tygr R. Similar to the DT990 but without the table peak and much easier to drive so you won’t be restricted by the gear it’s connect to.


Treble peak is still high on tygr


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Lalapuni said:


> Treble peak is still high on tygr



But relative to DT990 not so much  I don;t find I need to Eq it down at all on the Tygr (for gaming at least) while I did on the DT990.


----------



## Chastity

I still found the DT-1990 a little peaky, and using the Tygr foams on it helped to make it smoother and tamer.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Chastity said:


> I still found the DT-1990 a little peaky, and using the Tygr foams on it helped to make it smoother and tamer.


Yea - 1990 was too peaky without eq for me.  Tygr sits just right for me in that regard - although I find the mids a tad recessed for it to be perfect.  Have moved on to the HD560s for gaming now (fps especially).


----------



## Chastity

WhiteHartMart said:


> Yea - 1990 was too peaky without eq for me.  Tygr sits just right for me in that regard - although I find the mids a tad recessed for it to be perfect.  Have moved on to the HD560s for gaming now (fps especially).


I went into the overkill direction and now sport a set of M1570


----------



## Chastity

https://us.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp

SXFi Dongle amp for $59 on promo.


----------



## Krbass

Chastity said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp
> 
> SXFi Dongle amp for $59 on promo.


Do you think this would be enough to power the headphones I just ordered? Cause that's a great price.


----------



## dandiego (Sep 24, 2021)

Chastity said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp
> 
> SXFi Dongle amp for $59 on promo.


Interesting.  Earlier this week it was the same price -- but as a bundle that included the Aurvana Trio LS.  Within the same day their stock of the Aurvana was gone and effectively broke the bundle.  The bundle is back (available for backorder) but now costs $20 more ($80).


Spoiler










Good price though.

* Just an FYI: Register for an account and check the box for "Sign up for Creative Newsletters" -- this will get you 40 "points" that you can use for $2.00 off your order.


----------



## Krbass

Chastity said:


> https://us.creative.com/p/super-x-fi/creative-sxfi-amp
> 
> SXFi Dongle amp for $59 on promo.


Do you think this would be enough to power the headphones I just ordered? Cause that's a great price!


----------



## Chastity

Krbass said:


> Do you think this would be enough to power the headphones I just ordered? Cause that's a great price!


The Tygrs and AKG should be ok, the DT-990 at 250 ohm, no.


----------



## roladyzator (Sep 25, 2021)

It's actually surprisingly powerful  with over 2V RMS output. See review.

That's 108 dB at low distortion with DT990 250 Ohm. Enough for decent volume with SXFI and some equalization included.


----------



## illram

Yeah it'll get them loud enough, likely.


----------



## Krbass

Yeah I ordered the sxfi. If it's not enough juice I'll get a better amp.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What an amazing time I had at CanJam. Loved everyone there. All the quarantining made everyone SO NICE! 🤣

In all seriousness, it was really fulfilling as a both a reviewer getting to meet so many people, and as someone.at Audeze, being able to help people find what they would potentially be into.

Amazing.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What an amazing time I had at CanJam. Loved everyone there. All the quarantining made everyone SO NICE! 🤣
> 
> In all seriousness, it was really fulfilling as a both a reviewer getting to meet so many people, and as someone.at Audeze, being able to help people find what they would potentially be into.
> 
> Amazing.


Bring back a LCD 5!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

NiGHTS4EVA said:


> Bring back a LCD 5!


If I could I would. I do have a 4Z in my backpack. 🤣

Though it's because we needed a place for it. 👀

I could pretend I forgot to take it out before I leave the office tomorrow. 😝


----------



## yugnat

I don't want to be 'that guy' that asks for a recommendation here without any research.  I just received a PS5 and need something for surround - I've been reading all over this thread, Reddit, etc and I believe I'm going to roll the dice with the GC7.  Does anybody have a better recommendation please - something I'm overlooking or may not have considered?  Here is my use case:  online multiplayer only (Battlefield, Apex, Warzone, etc), AKG 712, LG CX.  I don't mind also splurging for more amplification such as the Hel when its back on stock, but I still need to address surround for multiplayer.  Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You don't "need" to address surround, as the PS5 utilizes its 3D audio. Its performance can vary, but I'd live with it alone using any dac/amp that can accept UAC1.

That being said, a Creative GC7, X7 or G6 with their SXFI or SBX would do just fine.

As you're using the K712, maybe you'll want to give it since ample headroom, so I'd suggest pairing the G6 with a stronger amp like at the very least a Schiit Magni.


----------



## yugnat

Thanks MLE.  The X7 works with PS5?  I didn't think it was supposed to.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Oh sorry. Well, since you have a CX (I have a C9) , you can just go optical out from the TV to the X7. Make sure you set the TV audio out to Optical ONLY and bitstream Dolby Digital. Do NOT set it to Optical + Speakers, because it will convert it down to Stereo and you lose Dolby Digital. If and when you wanna use TV speakers/whatever else, just set it to that.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

If anyone has $3k burning in their pocket the perfect PlayStation amp has arrived 😂🥰
https://www.headphones.com/products/ifi-audio-pro-idsd-dac


----------



## Krbass (Sep 29, 2021)

Well I have the DT990s and TYGR 300 R and prefer the TYGR. They seem to be way less harsh and to my ears have a little better low end, this could all be due to the amp I am using but I love my G6 and the surround is awesome. I just wasn't that blown away like I thought I was going to be. My old theater room had 8 18s and I know I will not reach the low end extension with headphones that I had there but I really want a second pair for music/single player games that can dig deeper and hit harder. Maybe both Beyers just are not for me, maybe what I am looking for is a closed headphone, I just don't know. All suggestions are welcome.


----------



## Chastity (Sep 29, 2021)

Krbass said:


> Well I have the DT990s and TYGR 300 R and prefer the TYGR. They seem to be way less harsh and to my ears have a little better low end, this could all be due to the amp I am using but I love my G6 and the surround is awesome. I just wasn't that blown away like I thought I was going to be. My old theater room had 8 18s and I know I will not reach the low end extension with headphones that I had there but I really want a second pair for music/single player games that can dig deeper and hit harder. Maybe both Beyers just are not for me, maybe what I am looking for is a closed headphone, I just don't know. All suggestions are welcome.


The Tygrs have a small bass boost and tempered treble peaks due to the new version of the driver foams that come installed on them.  The textured stitching circle in the foam around the driver's edges is what is attenuating the FR curve.  They sell those on their website, and anyone with the older versions can buy them.

Having the G6, I found it to be a little lackluster in delivering dynamic audio, and the audio sounded grainy to me, when compared to my SMSL M300 MKII with it's AK4497 DAC chip.  I also find that the bass is rolled off in comparison, but I find that is due to the analog output stage, as the bass sounds fine when using the SPDIF Out.  So I don't think the issue you have with your audio reproduction is the headphone's fault.  On the other hand, the Beyers aren't basshead headphones either.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I noticed on Audeze YT page, and was like, yo why didn't I hnear of this. LOL.

That beat tho...


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I noticed on Audeze YT page, and was like, yo why didn't I hnear of this. LOL.
> 
> That beat tho...



Y’all esports now? Woot


----------



## pbui44

Drop has their PC38x headset for $130 right now, plus other possible discounts:

https://drop.com/buy/drop-sennheiser-pc38x-gaming-headset


----------



## Chastity

PC38X is dead to me after Uncle Crinacle's video


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dunno why. The PC38X sounds so good, it should have a non-headset version.


----------



## Glasha

Do the Elex produce the Elear's click when the volume is high?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Never had an issue with the Elex. So no clue.


----------



## motorwayne

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Dunno why. The PC38X sounds so good, it should have a non-headset version.


Agreed, sheesh for "openworld" games they are very very good.


----------



## Krbass

I received the PC38X and am very happy with them. The convenience of the mic is great and I think they sound much better than the TYGRs. 

Next step is to find a bass head worthy headphone for electronic and hip hop.


----------



## Chastity

Krbass said:


> I received the PC38X and am very happy with them. The convenience of the mic is great and I think they sound much better than the TYGRs.
> 
> Next step is to find a bass head worthy headphone for electronic and hip hop.


Kennerton Magni


----------



## Radio81

Anyone seen or heard these yet:

https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gaming/products/h6pro-open-sebring-gaming-headset-1000934

A bit out of my budget, but it looks really nice.  The detachable mic is cool feature.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 6, 2021)

They would likely just be GSP 550s or whatever Sennheiser had last before turning the gaming headset business over to Epos. Unless Epos decided to make a brand new version with a new driver.

I'm sure they're very good however. Sennheiser never messed up their higher end gaming headsets, and Epos taking over that segment probably not gonna change that.

I'd probably still go for the PC38X though. I like that design better, and the PC38X is awesome.


----------



## Radio81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> They would likely just be GSP 550s or whatever Sennheiser had last before turning the gaming headset business over to Epos. Unless Epos decided to make a brand new version with a new driver.
> 
> I'm sure they're very good however. Sennheiser never messed up their higher end gaming headsets, and Epos taking over that segment probably not gonna change that.
> 
> I'd probably still go for the PC38X though. I like that design better, and the PC38X is awesome.



I already have the PC37X, so I'm really not looking to buy.  IMO, the H6Pro looks more comfortable than the GSP series, due to the updated headband. I never did care for the styling of the GSP series.

Really I want a wireless version of this.  Already have plenty of wired options.


----------



## Fegefeuer

DT 900 Pro X and DT 700 Pro X now in stock.any DT990 owners taking the plunge?


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Fegefeuer said:


> DT 900 Pro X and DT 700 Pro X now in stock.any DT990 owners taking the plunge?


Tempted to order a set of DT900!  In fact probably will lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Fegefeuer said:


> DT 900 Pro X and DT 700 Pro X now in stock.any DT990 owners taking the plunge?


Is it going to have too much treble? It is, isn't it?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Krbass said:


> I received the PC38X and am very happy with them. The convenience of the mic is great and I think they sound much better than the TYGRs.
> 
> Next step is to find a bass head worthy headphone for electronic and hip hop.


Soundmagic HP151 or HP200 headphones.


----------



## Blazej (Oct 9, 2021)

Hi. This is very informative thread - I hope you can help me with some recommendation.

I have Sennheiser HD555 for many years - using it mostly for gaming and music too, connected to Sound Blaster Z.
Recently I wondered if it is maybe time for some upgrade, so I got two questions:

1. Is it worth upgrading my headphones to let's say HD599/HD560S/AKG K702 (I don't think about HD650 because often I see that is not recommended for gamers but rather for music listeners). Does it make any sense to spend money for HD599 or the difference is too small to bother?

2. Similar question about sound card - is it worth to upgrade my good old SBZ to G6 or maybe X4 (however I have no idea if Super X-Fi technology itself is worth resigning from G6 which have overall better parameters)


----------



## PurpleAngel

Blazej said:


> Hi. This is very informative thread - I hope you can help me with some recommendation.
> 
> I have Sennheiser HD555 for many years - using it mostly for gaming and music too, connected to Sound Blaster Z.
> Recently I wondered if it is maybe time for some upgrade, so I got two questions:
> ...


Soundmagic HP200 open headphones, more of a fiesta sound.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133823404906
Plug it into the SB-Z sound card


----------



## AudioManNewb

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Is it going to have too much treble? It is, isn't it?


Beyerdynamic's are not really the most bright headphones there are plenty more way more bright. And probably not the new headphones PRO X has acoustic foam covering the drivers like the TYGR R 300.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask about VSS but I'm wondering if anyone recommends a VSS headphone device for Dolby Pro Logic ii decoding for a Gamecube (so RCA or Stereo Jack)? I have an Earforce DSS v1 which apparently supports DPLiix but testing on a youtube video and it sounded like it wasn't working. The manual didn't clearly state if it did DPLii decoding over stereo analog. 

Appreciate any help.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 11, 2021)

VirtuaVillain said:


> Not sure if this is the right thread to ask about VSS but I'm wondering if anyone recommends a VSS headphone device for Dolby Pro Logic ii decoding for a Gamecube (so RCA or Stereo Jack)? I have an Earforce DSS v1 which apparently supports DPLiix but testing on a youtube video and it sounded like it wasn't working. The manual didn't clearly state if it did DPLii decoding over stereo analog.
> 
> Appreciate any help.


Try to hunt down (on Ebay) an old Astro Mixamp (with RCA input). It'll decode DPLII into Dolby Headphone 2, and it's pretty convincing. It'a little worse than using Dolby Digital, but it's def still worthwhile on the GC/Wii.

edit: THIS ONE

But really, as long as you have literally any external VSS device with an optical digital input, and a TV that outputs Dolby Digital through its optical out, it'll take the DPLII from the GC/Wii and send that digitally contained within the Dolby Digital stream. Though I guess if you're playing retro with a CRT, you need to connect directly anyways, so you'll want the one linked.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Try to hunt down (on Ebay) an old Astro Mixamp (with RCA input). It'll decode DPLII into Dolby Headphone 2, and it's pretty convincing. It'a little worse than using Dolby Digital, but it's def still worthwhile on the GC/Wii.
> 
> edit: THIS ONE
> 
> But really, as long as you have literally any external VSS device with an optical digital input, and a TV that outputs Dolby Digital through its optical out, it'll take the DPLII from the GC/Wii and send that digitally contained within the Dolby Digital stream. Though I guess if you're playing retro with a CRT, you need to connect directly anyways, so you'll want the one linked.


Awesome, thank you for such an informative reply! Thanks to your guide I also plan to pick up a SU-DH1 for DTS conversion. Super grateful for your guide and the hard work you've put into it.

You're bang on the money! I use CRTs as my first choice to play retro consoles so this Astro amp looks perfect. Cheers!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 12, 2021)

VirtuaVillain said:


> Awesome, thank you for such an informative reply! Thanks to your guide I also plan to pick up a SU-DH1 for DTS conversion. Super grateful for your guide and the hard work you've put into it.
> 
> You're bang on the money! I use CRTs as my first choice to play retro consoles so this Astro amp looks perfect. Cheers!


That's awesome. I'm a CRT lover as well. Been hunting for a component input accessible progressive scan CRT. No luck though. I'll have to do with Retroarch with CRT filters. Though I hate that I need emulation.

I'm saddened by the new crowd that thinks retro games should have a raw pixel look. It NEVER looked that way back when those games were a thing. Scanlines or bust!

Best of luck finding a SU-DH1. Those things are hella rare. If you manage to find one, then you don't need the Mixamp, as the SU-DH1 will do DD and DPLII as well.


----------



## VirtuaVillain (Oct 13, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> That's awesome. I'm a CRT lover as well. Been hunting for a component input accessible progressive scan CRT. No luck though. I'll have to do with Retroarch with CRT filters. Though I hate that I need emulation.
> 
> I'm saddened by the new crowd that thinks retro games should have a raw pixel look. It NEVER looked that way back when those games were a thing. Scanlines or bust!
> 
> Best of luck finding a SU-DH1. Those things are hella rare. If you manage to find one, then you don't need the Mixamp, as the SU-DH1 will do DD and DPLII as well.


Yeah, a real CRT feels great and it's nice that emulation filters have evolved to be so much more than simple horizontal lines for those who can't get one.

Raw/Sharp pixels has become its own art style now which is understandable but the way artists used scanlines and the inherent CRT properties to create pixel art decades ago feels like magic! I find it difficult to play older games without a period-correct display or filter.

Oh that's good to know about the SU-DH1, they seem to be reasonably priced in Japan but don't come up to often on auction sites, I'll keep an eye out and see if I get lucky.

Another thing I liked about your guide was how you explained how there's a lack of LPCM/PCM audio virtualization. I'm kind of bummed that there's no cheap solution to compress it into a Dolby stream for those who love VSS and want it for WiiU/Switch.

I wonder if they'll ever be hardware that incorporates the newer audio spatial sound solutions (Atmos, DTS Headphone X v2 etc) which I assume would have better 5.1 surround mixing than older hardware VSS solutions based on Dolby Headphone.

Btw, what's your opinion on Logitech/SBX solutions vs the available hardware Dolby solutions for 5.1 and consoles like PS3/360? It's kind of nice Xbox One and PS5 (although I've heard mixed things about the Tempest audio PS5 uses) have decent software solutions now but I'm still on the hunt for the best solution for that gen.

EDIT: Just realised the GC7 might do Super X-Fi processing for PS3/360 5.1 streams? oh my, I'm probably going to end up with a collection of these devices


----------



## Helvetica bold

I have some reward points from work that I can spend on the Sennheiser GSP 670. I'd like some thoughts on pairing with PS5. Mostly used for Battlefield 2042 and general gaming. Are the GSP 670's one of the best wireless headphones out?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

The Audeze employee in me wants to steer you towards the Audeze Penrose instead, but the reviewer in me says the GSP 670 looks like a fine headset if that's the way you're going.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The Audeze employee in me wants to steer you towards the Audeze Penrose instead, but the reviewer in me says the GSP 670 looks like a fine headset if that's the way you're going.


Respect and appreciate the honesty! I would get the Audeze Penrose if it was offered. Perhaps I could sell the 670s? It's a work anniversary gift through a corporate rewards shop so there's a limited number of gaming headsets. Really surprised to see the 670s offered.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, it sounds like a good deal. I'd go for it.



VirtuaVillain said:


> EDIT: Just realised the GC7 might do Super X-Fi processing for PS3/360 5.1 streams? oh my, I'm probably going to end up with a collection of these devices


Yeah, the GC7 will do SXFI for any Dolby Digital source via optical digital input.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Is it going to have too much treble? It is, isn't it?



Have the 900 Pro X now - far from too much treble - its almost the opposite this time is seems - even the Tygr have a bit more treble energy from my testing so far.  Enjoying them for music, a lot, but for gaming at the moment, they don't as open/wide soundstage wise so not sure I like them as much as the 990 for this purpose.  They are easily driven by game console controllers though this time which is a plus.


----------



## MarkDraconian

Hey guys, i know this maybe silly, but i'm wondering about what is the proper way to do the head measurements for Waves Nx.

I mean like should i just leave the measurement tape slightly touch my ears, or press it against my head? This a little detail that leads to like 1 or 1.5 cm of difference, yeah it's small but maybe this is enough to alter my perception of sound direction and depth from the audio?


----------



## NewCoke

MarkDraconian said:


> Hey guys, i know this maybe silly, but i'm wondering about what is the proper way to do the head measurements for Waves Nx.
> 
> I mean like should i just leave the measurement tape slightly touch my ears, or press it against my head? This a little detail that leads to like 1 or 1.5 cm of difference, yeah it's small but maybe this is enough to alter my perception of sound direction and depth from the audio?



Over your ears according to this.  Also includes pics:

https://www.waves.com/support/how-to-personalize-the-nx-3d-audio-apps

"Using an ordinary measuring tape, measure the full circumference of your head over the back of the head, ears and eyebrows."


----------



## duranxv

Any thoughts on Expanse3D VSS?  Wondering if anyone's tried it


----------



## gab840

@Mad Lust Envy Hey Man, I see that you are using DT Elite velour pads for your HE400. Have you also change the stock cable or want to recommend any good cable for the HE400 ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 16, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Any thoughts on Expanse3D VSS?  Wondering if anyone's tried it



No, I haven't even heard about it.

https://unitedplugins.com/Expanse3D/

They have a free trial. Still, I'm not sure the application is set for virtual surround emulation. It seems more for production use, not actual playback. I'll read up on it when I have some time.





gab840 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Hey Man, I see that you are using DT Elite velour pads for your HE400. Have you also change the stock cable or want to recommend any good cable for the HE400 ?



Sorry I sold the HE400 quite a while back. At the time, I replaced the stock cable which was all but fraying with some cheap, really short one from Amazon. If I had cared I def would've gone with a Hart Audio Cable, 100%. Great price, the cable is super flexible and soft, and I used them with an interconnect. One for unbalanced amplifiers, and one with 4-pin XLR for my balanced amp.

https://hartaudiocables.com/collections

I currently have two for Audeze, one for the LCD-X, and one for the 2C. @NiGHTS4EVA gave me a 3.5mm dual entry version for my Elex (which was for his Arya, but he's changed to another cable), and I'm considering getting one for my 6XX, as well as one of my MMCX modded PortaPros. I don't need or want anything more than what Hart Audio offers, though in hindsight, I think I should've had them all terminate into 4.4mm pentaconn as the interconnect point instead of mini XLR. Ah well. It would've made them just a bit more felxible in use, though I don't have any 4.4mm devices. Just thinking about a future where Schiit will likely start including it (my assumption). Of course I could just buy a 4.4mm interconnect for these cables. That's the beauty of Hart Audio Cables.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, I haven't even heard about it.
> 
> https://unitedplugins.com/Expanse3D/
> 
> They have a free trial. Still, I'm not sure the application is set for virtual surround emulation. It seems more for production use, not actual playback. I'll read up on it when I have some time.



Awesome, would love to hear your impressions on it 

I know it's been mentioned before, but now that more time has passed, what do you think of using tube amps for gaming?  I was thinking of using a solid state as a pre-amp into a good tube amp, but wanted to get some people's impressions of tube amps and gaming in general


----------



## gab840

duranxv said:


> Awesome, would love to hear your impressions on it
> 
> I know it's been mentioned before, but now that more time has passed, what do you think of using tube amps for gaming?  I was thinking of using a solid state as a pre-amp into a good tube amp, but wanted to get some people's impressions of tube amps and gaming in general


Tube amps are great considering you have a good quality one, check bottlehead crack as a starter and if you can get bottlehead sex you are in a treat for gaming due to its detail retrieval n presentation as well as it's huge and awesome soundstage capabilities.


----------



## duranxv

gab840 said:


> Tube amps are great considering you have a good quality one, check bottlehead crack as a starter and if you can get bottlehead sex you are in a treat for gaming due to its detail retrieval n presentation as well as it's huge and awesome soundstage capabilities.



How's the bass on it?

Me and DIY projects don't mix well lol.  Any comparable amps to the Bottleheads that are already pre-made? lol


----------



## Youcan1

I just bought the Creative Soundblaster Play 4 for PS5 use and unfortunately it has the low volume issue that many other USB DACs have had. According to a Reddit thread they may be working on a firmware fix for it. It sounds good off of my PC and Android phone though. Not sure if I want to wait for a fix or return it and go for something else.
​


----------



## Radio81 (Oct 19, 2021)

Radio81 said:


> Anyone seen or heard these yet:
> 
> https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gaming/products/h6pro-open-sebring-gaming-headset-1000934
> 
> A bit out of my budget, but it looks really nice.  The detachable mic is cool feature.


I ended up buying the H6Pro Open Acoustic.  I received it on Friday.  I have only played with the H6Pro for about 4 hours, but it is super nice.  I'll post some initial impressions, but the TL;DR version is these are a keeper.

Fit:
Super light, and no clamping force adjustment needed.
Pads are cloth covered memory foam.  They are comfortable and breathe well.  I would have preferred a 2nd pair of pads (velour or similar) at this price though.
Padded leather wrapped headband is nice and comfortable.  Not sure if real leather or pleather.  Seems like real leather, but I couldn't find definitive info stating such.
After 4 hours of use it still felt great on top of head and around ears.
These do not creak at all when adjusting.
These are advertised as being almost 20% lighter than the wired GSP series headsets.

Operation:
Similar to PC37X, volume wheel is on the right earcup
Flip to mute mic.  The mic is detachable (magnetic) and can easily be removed when not needed.  There are cover plates included (1 to use and 1 spare) for when you don't have the mic attached.  I suppose you could attach a modmic to the cover plate as an alternative, but the included mic seems very good.  Compared to the PC37X mic, I did not have to raise the mic sensitivity as much on PS5 for the H6Pro.  I do think the modmic wireless is better than either mic though.

Overall build quality seems very good, but it is still mostly plastic.  Parts of the headband and the retainer bolts for the earcups appear to be metal.  I've had no issue throwing the PC37X into a backpack for travel, but the H6Pro I would not be comfortable doing so without a hard shell case.

Sound:
It sounds great and I've found it to be a subtle upgrade over the PC37X.  Pinpointing footsteps and gunshots was very easy in Modern Warfare 2019.  Bass is plentiful but not overbearing.  I'd say it is very similar in tone to the PC37X, but with added low end.  I wish I could offer more about soundstage, imaging, etc.  I just know I really like the H6Pro so far.  I mostly play FPS and this headset gets high marks.

Attached are some pics because I know y'all love pics.  A couple of the pics are next to the PC37X for comparison.  You can see the mic boom on the H6Pro is about a half inch shorter than the mic boom on the PC37X.  Both mic booms are flexible - you can bend either slightly away from your face so that you're not breathing into the mic.

Another pic shows the mic detached, and another with the cover plate attached in place of the mic.  The cover plate is plastic, but has metal pieces embedded in the inserts.  It magnetically clips in place once you get it close to the headset.  It's also easy to remove when needed.  I think it's pretty slick.  The mic, cover plate, and earpads are replaceable from EPOS.

My setup is:
PS5 > Astro HDMI-to-optical adapter > Turtle Beach Elite Pro TAC > H6Pro.  Since PS5 does the surround processing, the Turtle Beach TAC is set to surround off, bass boost on.  It has plenty of power for the H6Pro, PC37X, SHP9500, X2HR, and other easy to drive headphones and headsets.  I like the TAC as it has mic boost and a background noise limiter.  For chatmix use it has worked well for me.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

@Radio81 - nice write up.  I bought a pair also but am sending mine back sadly.

For me personally, they remind me (I think) of how the GSP500 sounded - I'm not a big fan of the extra low end compared to the PC37x which I still prefer for the fps games I play. Also, (and its probably just my hearing) but something in the mids/upper mids just sounds a little artificial or not right on these compared to the PC37x.

Detachable mic is good and I too found the mic a little more sensitive on the PS5. Mic sounded good also and more than good enough for a gaming headset.

These are still good but, for me at least, they offer no reason to spend my money over and above what I have (apart from the fact I like the larger ear cups!).


----------



## Radio81

WhiteHartMart said:


> @Radio81 - nice write up.  I bought a pair also but am sending mine back sadly.
> 
> For me personally, they remind me (I think) of how the GSP500 sounded - I'm not a big fan of the extra low end compared to the PC37x which I still prefer for the fps games I play. Also, (and its probably just my hearing) but something in the mids/upper mids just sounds a little artificial or not right on these compared to the PC37x.
> 
> ...



Thanks man.  That's too bad they didn't work out for you.  I never did try the GSP series, as the headband looked like it would be uncomfortable.

I mentioned for me they are a subtle upgrade over the PC37X in that they add a little bass, a little more comfort, slightly better mic, better cable (console cable), and they don't move around on my head at all.  All of those little things add up to being a nice product.  It's definitely on the upper end of my budget though.


----------



## Youcan1

Radio81 said:


> Thanks man.  That's too bad they didn't work out for you.  I never did try the GSP series, as the headband looked like it would be uncomfortable.
> 
> I mentioned for me they are a subtle upgrade over the PC37X in that they add a little bass, a little more comfort, slightly better mic, better cable (console cable), and they don't move around on my head at all.  All of those little things add up to being a nice product.  It's definitely on the upper end of my budget though.


I had my eye on the H6 pro open but from what I've been seeing they aren't any better (if not worse) than the PC38X. I want a headset with a mic attached that can compete with my other headphones and I don't think this is it. Hopefully the VZR Model One goes on sale.


----------



## Radio81

Youcan1 said:


> I had my eye on the H6 pro open but from what I've been seeing they aren't any better (if not worse) than the PC38X. I want a headset with a mic attached that can compete with my other headphones and I don't think this is it. Hopefully the VZR Model One goes on sale.




Insert notsureifserious.jpeg


----------



## BRicardo

I've been thinking about purchasing a Sound BlasterX G6 (or something similar) for use with my PS5 (among others), but as a total audio noob I was hoping someone could give me a simple answer as to how it would work. Would this replace whatever the PS5 is capable of (3D audio, etc...) and if so is it even important? Or does it act as an addition?

And would you all recommend the Sound BlasterX G6 or are there better alternatives? (My only  requirement is that it has to work on PS5 and PC.)

Cheers


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

BRicardo said:


> I've been thinking about purchasing a Sound BlasterX G6 (or something similar) for use with my PS5 (among others), but as a total audio noob I was hoping someone could give me a simple answer as to how it would work. Would this replace whatever the PS5 is capable of (3D audio, etc...) and if so is it even important? Or does it act as an addition?
> 
> And would you all recommend the Sound BlasterX G6 or are there better alternatives? (My only  requirement is that it has to work on PS5 and PC.)
> 
> Cheers


I use this setup myself. You can turn off all the processing that the G6 does and use PS5’s Tempest Engine for sound instead.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah you can choose whether you want to use the G6's own SBX processing (as long as your TV has an optical out that can send Dolby Digital to the G6), or just disable the processing and use Tempest 3D audio on the PS5.


----------



## BRicardo

NiGHTS4EVA said:


> I use this setup myself. You can turn off all the processing that the G6 does and use PS5’s Tempest Engine for sound instead.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah you can choose whether you want to use the G6's own SBX processing (as long as your TV has an optical out that can send Dolby Digital to the G6), or just disable the processing and use Tempest 3D audio on the PS5.



Good to know. Thank you both.


----------



## p1zzap1e

BRicardo said:


> I've been thinking about purchasing a Sound BlasterX G6 (or something similar) for use with my PS5 (among others), but as a total audio noob I was hoping someone could give me a simple answer as to how it would work. Would this replace whatever the PS5 is capable of (3D audio, etc...) and if so is it even important? Or does it act as an addition?
> 
> And would you all recommend the Sound BlasterX G6 or are there better alternatives? (My only  requirement is that it has to work on PS5 and PC.)
> 
> Cheers


I have it for my series X and pc. Just love it. I also have an atmos license that does 3d sound when i want to, and it works great. Plug in the g6, then sit as close to the tv as you can, start battlefield 1 and remove the HUD. Go for the map called passchendale and i swear by the gaming gods that you will crap your pants.


----------



## BRicardo

p1zzap1e said:


> I have it for my series X and pc. Just love it. I also have an atmos license that does 3d sound when i want to, and it works great. Plug in the g6, then sit as close to the tv as you can, start battlefield 1 and remove the HUD. Go for the map called passchendale and i swear by the gaming gods that you will crap your pants.



Ordered mine earlier, should arrive tomorrow.

Loved the BF1 atmosphere and that was prior to having a decent audio setup, so I'm looking forward to testing it with the G6 and my Fidelio X2.
Also looking forward to BF2042 together with the G6, although it might not rival BF1's atmosphere.


----------



## p1zzap1e

BRicardo said:


> Ordered mine earlier, should arrive tomorrow.
> 
> Loved the BF1 atmosphere and that was prior to having a decent audio setup, so I'm looking forward to testing it with the G6 and my Fidelio X2.
> Also looking forward to BF2042 together with the G6, although it might not rival BF1's atmosphere.


Nice! Yeah bf1 has an incredible atmosphere. Prefer it to bf5 when it comes to maps, the presentation and the cinematic feeling. 2042 looks good, i hope it delivers. The sound in the beta was not as good as expected, but i hope they will fix it. And the map just looked to clean. Just hope they still have the ”ping” sound when you get a headshot. Just love it.


----------



## Johnsonr520 (Oct 27, 2021)

Haven't really researched gaming headphones in a few year. Been happy with my K7xx for shooters like Halo and COD for a few years now and they have been great, no complaints. Is the anything (preferably $200 or so and below) that would be considered an upgrade at this point (strictly for competitive gaming)? I have amps to drive more demanding headphones, so thats not a problem


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No, I haven't even heard about it.
> 
> https://unitedplugins.com/Expanse3D/
> 
> They have a free trial. Still, I'm not sure the application is set for virtual surround emulation. It seems more for production use, not actual playback. I'll read up on it when I have some time.



@Mad Lust Envy  Any luck?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, haven't had the time to really play anything, let alone test these things out. Not gonna have time this weekend either.


----------



## ricardovix

Hello, guys! Is there any wireless headset better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for gaming?

I tested the Cloud S but liked the HD598 better because of the soundstage (I felt like I was in the middle of the battle), despite the Cloud S have a really good/precise sound/bass.


----------



## NewCoke (Oct 29, 2021)

ricardovix said:


> Hello, guys! Is there any wireless headset better than the Sennheiser HD 598 for gaming?
> 
> I tested the Cloud S but liked the HD598 better because of the soundstage (I felt like I was in the middle of the battle), despite the Cloud S have a really good/precise sound/bass.



I don't know about better, but the Astro A50 Gen 4 has been very good to me as wireless option.

There are EQ preset creators for it, too. Some for the Astro base station via optical and some for USB only using Atmos EQ.

Biggest pro for me is comfort and being able to use Dolby Headphone Surround Sound via optical with other devices like an Apple TV or Sheild TV.  The wireless latency is basically close to non existent, too.

Rtings.com is high on it, too.  Featured on many of their best lists.  FWIW. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Brown Intruder

Hey guys

I am currently using Audio technica ath adg1s with an astro mixamp on an xbox series x and am now wondering if it is time for a change.

Really, I would like to get another openback headset (if they still exist) and perhaps a small amp if needed. I was looking at the very expensive audeze openback headset, but if my partner discovered the price after I purchased them I would never hear the last of it.

Any suggestions?


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA (Oct 29, 2021)

Brown Intruder said:


> Hey guys
> 
> I am currently using Audio technica ath adg1s with an astro mixamp on an xbox series x and am now wondering if it is time for a change.
> 
> ...


The GX? Yeah you'll have to switch the receipts if you wanna get away with that LOL. HD6xx from Drop and Sennheiser seems to be the go to budget pick, if you want a headset then look at their old GAME series. Going used might be an option for the GX as well, just did a quick search for them on Classifieds and they're going for around $550 USD, could also try B-stock direct from Audeze. Amps are a bit tricky for Xbox since they don’t play nice with most gear, they have to be made with Xbox compatibility in mind.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm super excited for Forza Horizon 5. I expect a fantastic soundtrack, and just chilled out vibes.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm super excited for Forza Horizon 5. I expect a fantastic soundtrack, and just chilled out vibes.


Your 2080 can't handle that game, time to upgrade!!!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Oct 29, 2021)

Excuuuuuse me, 2080 Tee EYE.

Get it right, pleb!

And yes, I would love me a 3080ti/3090. :'(

BTW, what are you doing Sunday, I'll be 6hrs homeless again. 

Let's go to CHEEEEEEEESECAKE


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone just got a question on your opinion before I buy. I currently have the hifiman Deva headset and was looking at getting an amp/dac. It will be used mostly for gaming on the pc, but if it works with the ps5 that’s a plus. Which I play mmo, open world style games hardly any FPS games. Just so you know if it helps with the decision I also bought waves, atmos for headphones virtual software in the past. So my question would you get something like the quadelix-5k, Fiio btr5k or creative GC7. I am also open to any other suggestions.

Thanks


----------



## WhiteHartMart

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone just got a question on your opinion before I buy. I currently have the hifiman Deva headset and was looking at getting an amp/dac. It will be used mostly for gaming on the pc, but if it works with the ps5 that’s a plus. Which I play mmo, open world style games hardly any FPS games. Just so you know if it helps with the decision I also bought waves, atmos for headphones virtual software in the past. So my question would you get something like the quadelix-5k, Fiio btr5k or creative GC7. I am also open to any other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks



PS5 is the tricky part - I have a G6 and a GC7 (use the 6 on the PC and the 7 on the PS5 as I find the app controls for changes on the fly useful).  If you don't need the mic input for PS5 gaming something like the iFi Zen Dac might be an option also as that has firmware available for PS5 compatibility and via PC you can use the software solutions you already have?


----------



## stavros.m

WhiteHartMart said:


> PS5 is the tricky part - I have a G6 and a GC7 (use the 6 on the PC and the 7 on the PS5 as I find the app controls for changes on the fly useful).  If you don't need the mic input for PS5 gaming something like the iFi Zen Dac might be an option also as that has firmware available for PS5 compatibility and via PC you can use the software solutions you already have?


Thanks I see the ifi zen dac v2 on Amazon


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Excuuuuuse me, 2080 Tee EYE.
> 
> Get it right, pleb!
> 
> ...


Made plans already lol 


stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone just got a question on your opinion before I buy. I currently have the hifiman Deva headset and was looking at getting an amp/dac. It will be used mostly for gaming on the pc, but if it works with the ps5 that’s a plus. Which I play mmo, open world style games hardly any FPS games. Just so you know if it helps with the decision I also bought waves, atmos for headphones virtual software in the past. So my question would you get something like the quadelix-5k, Fiio btr5k or creative GC7. I am also open to any other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks


The GC7 can pull dual duty with PS5 and PC for sure, not sure about the others you mentioned, Mad should have a review of it on here.


----------



## duranxv

I'm buying my first tube amp (Woo Audio WA22).  In addition to music listening sessions, I really hope this brings out a different sonic experience when I'm gaming too


----------



## Helvetica bold

For current gen, Shiits Hel 2 or Sound Blaster G6 for Battlefield 2042 paired with Audio Technica 700x? I assume bang for buck the G6 can connect to both the PS5 and XsX (through the TV optical).


----------



## Sam21

Is the SBX processing outputted through line out when you switch to speakers ? or is SBX processing outputted through headphone out jacks only ?

If I send a digital signal to X7 through Optical-in and turn on the SBX and connect X7's line-outs to a stereo speaker, I get SBX surround with the speakers ?


----------



## Chastity (Oct 31, 2021)

Sam21 said:


> Is the SBX processing outputted through line out when you switch to speakers ? or is SBX processing outputted through headphone out jacks only ?
> 
> If I send a digital signal to X7 through Optical-in and turn on the SBX and connect X7's line-outs to a stereo speaker, I get SBX surround with the speakers ?


There's a toggle to apply effects to Line-Out, either analog or spdif, so you can output HRTF to the speakers, but it will sound weird.  It is great for outputting via SPDIF to another DAC and amp for headphones.


----------



## volly

Just snapped up an Epos H6Pro (Closed-back) and GSX 300....anyone spent time with the Epos software? 

In other news, I grabbed a Razer Siren Mini real cheap and I'm very impressed with the little microphone! I needed to order an adapter to mount the little thing to my mic arm but with the Siren Mini sitting in front of you, it picks up quite well with little background noise!

Looking forward to Season 11 in Apex this week......please don't stuff this one up Respawn.....please!


----------



## bwardrop

I received the new Schiit Fulla E today and spent a couple hours with it. I’m pleasantly surprised. For $110 it sounds very good. I used to use my Mojo but the PS5 does not have an optical port or support UAC2. It manages to sound great while sipping power. The PS5 drives it fine from the front USB port. My 12.9” iPad Pro drives it without any low power warnings. I’ve only tested it with my Polaris 2 so far as my LCD-X is out for repair but it should drive them fine as well. Great device for the price. There are not a lot of great options that support UAC1 and I think this little amp is a winner.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

bwardrop said:


> I received the new Schiit Fulla E today and spent a couple hours with it. I’m pleasantly surprised. For $110 it sounds very good. I used to use my Mojo but the PS5 does not have an optical port or support UAC2. It manages to sound great while sipping power. The PS5 drives it fine from the front USB port. My 12.9” iPad Pro drives it without any low power warnings. I’ve only tested it with my Polaris 2 so far as my LCD-X is out for repair but it should drive them fine as well. Great device for the price. There are not a lot of great options that support UAC1 and I think this little amp is a winner.


I’ve heard the the front USB ports can be a bit noisy so if you hear any feedback try the back port if possible


----------



## MarkDraconian (Nov 2, 2021)

It seems that Waves Nx for desktop was removed from the website: https://www.waves.com/nx/apps
It makes me wonder 2 things, maybe an update is finally coming since that app is abandoned and never received updates for years now? Or unfortunately Waves NX for Windows is gone.


----------



## Chastity

MarkDraconian said:


> It seems that Waves Nx for desktop was removed from the website: https://www.waves.com/nx/apps
> It makes me wonder 2 things, maybe an update is finally coming since that app is abandoned and never received updates for years now? Or unfortunately Waves NX for Windows is gone.


It's still kinda there... I still see it on the main page, as a previously viewed item, for sale as $9.99.  However, adding to cart fails, as it comes up as empty.    So I guess they decided to stop selling licenses.

So I guess it's time to bug Redscape for discount codes.


----------



## illram

Aren't they the tech behind Mobius? Hopefully they're still supporting their OEM licensees...


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> Aren't they the tech behind Mobius? Hopefully they're still supporting their OEM licensees...


I'm hoping for an updated product.


----------



## Rozzko

Small usb dac/amp dongle (Lotoo paw s1) work fine with ps5. This little dac has got UAC1 mode. So it’s working fine. For anyone who want a small dac to listen music from PC/mobile and playing games on ps5 it’s a good choice. 
Mad lust, may be you will review this dac?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 5, 2021)

Rozzko said:


> Small usb dac/amp dongle (Lotoo paw s1) work fine with ps5. This little dac has got UAC1 mode. So it’s working fine. For anyone who want a small dac to listen music from PC/mobile and playing games on ps5 it’s a good choice.
> Mad lust, may be you will review this dac?


If someone is willing to send it to me, I'd be fine with that. Looks nice too. Also like that it has a 4.4m balanced input. I could use my modded PortaPros with that.


----------



## Rozzko

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If someone is willing to send it to me, I'd be fine with that. Looks nice too. Also like that it has a 4.4m balanced input. I could use my modded PortaPros with that.


On head fi this dac has got big topic. Many of users like it more than Mojo and another mid price dacs. Interesting to test it in games and compare with G6


----------



## ronfifer

Slightly off topic but what good is a gaming headphone if it's collecting dust and losing structural integrity. Anyone knows of a ready-to-buy solution to neatly line up your high end headphones on your computer desk? I cycle through them every 3 weeks and boxing and unboxing them everytime is impractical.
I need to line them up neatly and keep them protected from dust.


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> Slightly off topic but what good is a gaming headphone if it's collecting dust and losing structural integrity. Anyone knows of a ready-to-buy solution to neatly line up your high end headphones on your computer desk? I cycle through them every 3 weeks and boxing and unboxing them everytime is impractical.
> I need to line them up neatly and keep them protected from dust.


I keep my cans in hard cases when not in use.  You could also invest in stands, and cover them in cloth.  If you want to keep them seen, then invest in glass domes.


----------



## UrsusMajor

Been out of the loop for a while, thanks MLE for the recent GC7 review and to everyone imparting their findings, advice and knowledge on the thread

For those who have experienced both, Tempest and SXFI, is it worth buying the GC7 for the PS5 for games and films? 

For many years I used DH with the astro mixamp for gaming, but have been using Tempest since the PS5 launched for about a year now. Have kept my eye on SXFI but thought I would wait until I build a PC so that I can actually utilise 7.1 VSS opposed to 5.1 on PS5 via optical from the TV.

However, I likely will not build a PC until after Starfield is released, so I am wondering if SXFI is superior enough to Sony's Tempest 3D audio - wrt gaming audio cues (CoD) and immersion for films/TV as I use my PS5 for media, blu ray etc - to justify purchasing the GC7.

Currently using HD800Ss with the SXFI amp dongle on PS5. This leads me to my other question, since the PS5s recent update to allow 3D audio by means other than USB, are we able to pass Tempest 3D audio for headphones via HDMI to TV, optical to high-end dedicated DAC/amp, instead of having to use the G6 as a workaround for USB? I'm already certain the HDMI route will be solely for dedicated speakers and not suitable for headphones, but here's hoping

TLDR:
-worth buying GC7 for SXFI vs Tempest 3D?
-can Tempest 3D headphone be passed via optical from TV to dac/amp instead of having to use G6 via USB? 

Thanks again


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 9, 2021)

I personally find Tempest to be one of the weaker virtual surround DSPs, IMHO. But in games that utilize it properly, it's one of the least processed sounding DSPs. It sounds questionable on games that don't natively support it.

Tempest and SXFI are quite the polar opposites, as SXFI is very processed sounding. I think the closest thing to Tempest would be SBX on a very low surround setting.

Tempest works in a pinch if you have nothing else, but I think I'd opt for SXFI, Dolby Headphone, SBX over it, if you have them.

Tempest can't be passed on to anything other than the PS5 controller's headphone jack, and USB dac like the G6, GC7, Fulla 4, Hel 2, etc (anything with UAC1 compatibility). So it can't be sent to a TV via HDMI (which I'd like to see done in a future update)


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Tempest can't be passed on to anything other than the PS5 controller's headphone jack, and USB dac like the G6, GC7, Fulla 4, Hel 2, etc (anything with UAC1 compatibility). So it can't be sent to a TV via HDMI (which I'd like to see done in a future update)


This should be posted as a FAQ. Can't be explained better than that.


----------



## UrsusMajor

kadinh said:


> This should be posted as a FAQ. Can't be explained better than that.


Was asking because of this https://www.whathifi.com/news/ps5-update-adds-3d-audio-through-tv-speakers 
Hopefully they allow us to pass the headphone 3D stereo mix in an update at some point


----------



## kadinh (Nov 9, 2021)

UrsusMajor said:


> Was asking because of this https://www.whathifi.com/news/ps5-update-adds-3d-audio-through-tv-speakers
> Hopefully they allow us to pass the headphone 3D stereo mix in an update at some point


Wow, I hadn't seen that. Wonder if it's still in beta (just checked, it's not). If not, then 3D audio over HDMI should work, then go USB/Optical out from TV to DAC. Or I guess you could plug in the headphones to the TV, but I don't imagine they would have the best DAC/Amp built in.

I will try to test out tonight with my TempoTec E44 and Topping L30/E30 stack. Might try with Mojo if I feel like it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 9, 2021)

kadinh said:


> Wow, I hadn't seen that. Wonder if it's still in beta (just checked, it's not). If not, then 3D audio over HDMI should work, then go USB/Optical out from TV to DAC. Or I guess you could plug in the headphones to the TV, but I don't imagine they would have the best DAC/Amp built in.
> 
> I will try to test out tonight with my TempoTec E44 and Topping L30/E30 stack. Might try with Mojo if I feel like it.


Oh I didn't realize there was an update that allowed this. THAT BEING SAID, that sounds like it's made for TV speakers, and not exactly passing 3D audio for headphones through HDMI.

Had I been Sony, I would've worded it as 'Pass Tempest 3D Audio Through HDMI' or something similar if that were the case.

I'll have to check this out tomorrow, but doesn't sound like what we want for headphones.


----------



## ronfifer

Chastity said:


> I keep my cans in hard cases when not in use.  You could also invest in stands, and cover them in cloth.  If you want to keep them seen, then invest in glass domes.


Mind if you share a link for "hard cases" and "glass domes" just to get an idea of what you mean? Thank you.


----------



## EevelutionZ

Which headphones do you guys use with the G6 for PS5? Is HD599 a good choice?


----------



## UrsusMajor

illram said:


> The new SXFI Carrier (their SXFI enabled Atmos soundbar) has a USB-out which some reviews say is "SXFI enabled", and it is even labeled on the device as an "SXFI Out" port. But there is no further explanation other than it is designed to be used with their wireless dongle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://uk.creative.com/p/speakers/sound-blaster-katana-v2#feature-section-6
Do you reckon this Katana V2 would be similar, in allowing use of of SXFI with our own gear for PC and consoles?
It would be more affordable than the SXFI Carrier if so


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> Mind if you share a link for "hard cases" and "glass domes" just to get an idea of what you mean? Thank you.


An example of the hard cases is this, which I use for a set of HD-580:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B075S1HDJQ

As for glass domes, I was thinking like the ones they use at diners to display desserts.  I would get a dome that is at least 11" tall, depending on the height of the stand you use.  Also make sure it's wide enough too.

https://smile.amazon.com/Moonlear-Cloche-Tabletop-Display-Coffee/dp/B07HR69XFG


----------



## volly

Well...just got in the Epos H6Pro and GSX 300 AMP/DAC.
H6Pro:

GSX 300:


Really impressed with the build quality here on both units, one interesting note is that the Headphone out/Microphone out is located on the back of the GSX300. Which are first, I thought was odd as I'm use to plugging things in at the front of the device but this allows me to hid the cables and route them underneath my desk. This setup looks extremely clean and the cables provided are long enough!

The H6Pro I received is the 'closed' version and they isolate extremely well! Comfort, fit and weight is extremely satisfying with this headset and feels well built! The cables although perfect in length are of the braided type and seems to have some memory to it, comes bundled up and as you untie them they literally turn in to a slinky! Good luck trying to get these types of cable dead flat and straight as they seem to stay stringy and curl about the place like a fish out of water! Not a deal breaker as the micro-phonics is not noticeable but something Epos could improve on in the future! Earpads are large and comfortable, these are like the hybrid pads with the pleater on the outer and fabric inside, my ears are comfortable inside and have no issues at all! Headband and adjustability is something Epos nailed here, once my head, I never wanted to take them off!

The sound of H6Pro Closed is very pleasant, Epos and Sennheiser collaboration here is evident and they just sound right to an Audiophile/Gamer ears here. It's got punch down low which is detailed and tight but is not pushed forward or overcomes the rest of the frequency range but present enough to give you that warm Sennheiser taste. Midrange is also typical here, clear and present and ever-so-slightly recessed. It doesn't come across too shout nor too distant but just right, sorta like the HD650! I love how the treble is done here on the H6Pro, not sibilant but detailed, airy and forward enough to give you that little extra sparkle on top! All this combined probably makes the H6Pro sound like a fun headphone, which it is....but in games like Apex Legends, CSGO, Battletech, DOTA Underlords....it was all a great experience and with the added bonus of being totally isolated to the rest of the world! Imaging and sound stage is excellent here and for a closed-back it never sounded like one, the H6Pro reminded me very much of a Closed-HD560s but with a warmer and less analytical sound signature. Something I've actually been looking for since I've acquired the HD560s because I'm just so impressed with that headphone! Fairly dark background, not the darkest I've heard but no distortion or cup resonance and the image is of a larger sound scape compared to other closed-back I've heard. The depth is quite good here, things are happening all around your ears and head with Left, Center, Right being very accurate. Tracking sounds and hearing footsteps is no issue here, the detail and balance of the sound signature just provides you with an excellent production of what is going on the game or whatever media you use with this headphone! 

The microphone on the H6Pro is up there with a Modmic and in-between a Razer Siren Mini and other various microphones I have. It is highly useable and for most gamers who aren't looking for Podcast style solutions then the microphone on the H6Pro is a one and done solution! You can raise and lower the microphone arm, which mutes and unmutes as you fold it away or bring down to use. You can even take off the microphone all together as Epos used a magnet solution to hold in-place the microphone arm! They even include little disc covers to replace the microphone if you decided that you don't want to use it! Very handy!

Epos GSX 300 AMP/DAC/Software:
The Epos Gaming Suite, is tiny in comparisons to other Bloatware programs out there in the wild, this is a thumbs up! Simple to use and not overly complicated to use, it does what it needs to do fairly efficiently and just gets out of the way!


Below, you have control of your microphone capabilities where you can adjust and fine-tune a quite a lot! You can EQ your mic-out to
make your voice sound warmer, clearer, or EQ to whatever you like. You can control the Gain, Side tone (for all those who need to monitor 
their mic levels!), Noise Gate and Noise Cancellation. All very easy to adjust and test while you're in the software!

Below: You can EQ yourself or use custom presets, I just left mine on Flat as I don't really use EQ! You can change between Stereo or 7.1 
Simulated Surround setting and adjust the Reverb! I just prefer Stereo here but YMMV. 

All in all the software is usable gives you a little tweaking if and when you need it and it doesn't take up silly amounts of virtual HD space 
being only 18 megabytes!

Next is the GSX 300: Small petite but firm and well built, slightly heavier than you might think. Reminds me of the Old
Audioengine D1 from back in the day! Volume is soft and clicks as your turn, has a nice feel when you seldom turn it 
up or down as I have the volume for the H6Pro set to 50% and is ample for everything I need it to do! The other button
is a select button and you can customize this to do a few things through the software. I just have mine to toggle between
Stereo or 7.1!

The rear of the unit is tapers down and just has your bare essentials for a gaming DAC/AMP. Headphone-out, Microphone-in and USB micro for power and data.
As I said before, this was odd at first but later worked out extremely well for my setup and just looks really nice once I set it all up! If you like clean setups then
having the cables route out the back of the DAC and around or under your desk looks clean aF.


Performance wise, the GSX 300 is competent and powerful enough with the H6Pro, I haven't tried any other headphones with it yet as I intend to keep this setup straight 
forward with the H6Pro/GSX300 combo going forward!

I have no issues with the sound quality this little DAC pumps out and no issues installation or any driver issues, essentially plug and play! I've not heard any pops or clicks or distortion or anything which is a relief to me which further solidify my purchase. It probably sounds better than my Schiit Fulla 2 and on pair with my Creative X3, does it compare to my other standalone DAC's well....does it matter? Not really....it just needs to do the job I want it to do and it does it rather well! 

As for value, I picked these units up on the 'used' markets but both units were 'brand new' and the H6Pro wasn't even opened, still with the seal! I'm not sure if I'd personally pay full retail price for a "gaming" headset and DAC but for what it does, it does really well and I'm keeping this combo! 

@Mad Lust Envy - Sorry in advanced if it looks like I tried taking over the thread but I personally love and use your thread you've created and just wanted to add to it as it's been a really pleasure read through your thread throughout the years!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 11, 2021)

Nice review. Enjoy your new gear! Looks really nice in your setup too. And please don't worry about it. Anyone's input especially with new gear is welcome.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 12, 2021)

https://koss.com/products/kph40-utility

Koss Finally did it.

No longer do you need to source the KSC75 or PortaPro driver and get a Parts Express or Koss Retrospekt headband separately.

Took them THIS long to finally do it themselves.

Granted, they are still using the utterly terrible cable that will absolutely, without question break on you instead of having MMCX connectors, but hey, maybe in 2 more decades Koss will get around to having a detachable cable.

This ain't for me, since I prefer clips, but I know a lot of you would want this. The drivers look detachable like the 75, 35, Porta, Sporta, so I COULD use them with clips if I didn't already have two modded PortaPros.

Ah damn it. I'm gonna get them for my mother. I'll review them too. Once they come back in stock anyways.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> https://koss.com/products/kph40-utility
> 
> Koss Finally did it.
> 
> ...


I like how you talked yourself into getting them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chastity said:


> I like how you talked yourself into getting them.


Lol, I mean, I'd never actually use them as they come. I'd have to get them modded with MMCX cables and find myself another set of KSC75 clips, which I dunno if I have any fresh ones.

At the vbery least I can review them to see if they're worth it over just getting a KSC75 or Sportapro and just snapping them on to the Retrospekt headband.


----------



## ronfifer

The forum tools seem updated. No more Like button. What is the new etiquette? 
Priority to courteous etiquette even if the post only says "thank you", or priority to save number of posts and optimize thread size? 
Btw, thank you for the links Chastity.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 13, 2021)

I still see Likes...

For some reason I thought the KPH40 driver shell looked new, but nope. Literally the same one as the 35, Sporta, Porta..

So yeah, I guarantee with 100% certainty that the KPH40 is the same drivers. All rated the same too. Sportapro a little different, and I'd attribute that to the headband housing altering the sound just enough.


----------



## UrsusMajor

illram said:


> The new SXFI Carrier (their SXFI enabled Atmos soundbar) has a USB-out which some reviews say is "SXFI enabled", and it is even labeled on the device as an "SXFI Out" port. But there is no further explanation other than it is designed to be used with their wireless dongle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I have been looking at the info for the carrier, sadly doesn't look promising that the SXFI-out port will allow use of our own gear with SXFI, based on info from Creative's site:

"Connect a wired headphone/earphone at the front Headphone Out of the SXFI CARRIER. The Super X-Fi profile transferred into the SXFI CARRIER will be applied to the wired headphone/earphone.

For wireless headphone, use SXFI Theater and connect its SXFI TX dongle into the SXFI OUT of SXFI CARRIER. The Super X-Fi profile transferred into the SXFI TX will be applied to the SXFI THEATER.

Note:
The Super X-Fi profile transferred into the SXFI CARRIER is only applicable to the wired Headphone Out.
The headphone connected to the Headphone Out will have Super X-Fi controlled by the SXFI CARRIER.
SXFI product connected to the SXFI OUT of SXFI CARRIER will have Super X-Fi controlled by the SXFI product.
SXFI Out and headphone out are having separate Super X-Fi profiles.
SXFI Out and Headphone Out are having the same playback priority."


----------



## Fegefeuer

I've been checking out a few *iFi audio* products for* PS4/PS5 compatiblity* and quite a few ones have been patched via firmware.,


NEO iDSD (Firmware)​ZEN DAC (latest Firmware)​ZEN DAC V2 (latest Firmware)​ZEN DAC Signature V2 (latest Firmware)​micro iDSD Signature (latest Firmware)​xDSD (latest Firmware)​xDSD Gryphon (since this is brand new I suspect it has it already)​iDSD Diablo (no idea, no hints)​Pro iDSD Signature (default as per advertisement)​


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

KPH40 in stock on Amazon for Nov 18-24 GOGOGO


----------



## kadinh

@Mad Lust Envy 

I have the PC38X with my PS5, currently using a UAC1 DAC to Topping E30 to Topping L30. I switch between the 38X and IEMs and use a ModMic. I was thinking on getting something simpler that I could use with the PS5 so I can use the 38X mic (if I'm lazy or the ModMic dies).

What would your top 3 recommendations be? I'm leaning towards the Hel 2, but not sure I want to spend $200 on a "backup" device. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 15, 2021)

kadinh said:


> @Mad Lust Envy
> 
> I have the PC38X with my PS5, currently using a UAC1 DAC to Topping E30 to Topping L30. I switch between the 38X and IEMs and use a ModMic. I was thinking on getting something simpler that I could use with the PS5 so I can use the 38X mic (if I'm lazy or the ModMic dies).
> 
> What would your top 3 recommendations be? I'm leaning towards the Hel 2, but not sure I want to spend $200 on a "backup" device. Thanks in advance.


As the PC38X is very easy to drive, and you can do with a headset capable dac/amp, I'd say the G6 or the Fulla 4. I don't think you need to spend for the Hel 2. In the case of a secondary device, I think the Fulla 4's simplicity works out better than the Hel 2, and it doesn't need to be powered externally.

Creative G6 or Fulla 4 are my recommends.

The G6 is feature packed, and the Fulla 4 is polar opposite, being super simplistic. So go with which one appeals to you more.

3rd? Can't say I have a 3rd. Hel 2, but you already know about that one.


----------



## kadinh (Nov 15, 2021)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> As the PC38X is very easy to drive, and you can do with a headset capable dac/amp, I'd say the G6 or the Fulla 4. I don't think you need to spend for the Hel 2. In the case of a secondary device, I think the Fulla 4's simplicity works out better than the Hel 2, and it doesn't need to be powered externally.
> 
> Creative G6 or Fulla 4 are my recommends.
> 
> ...


Excellent. Thank you for the reply.

EDIT: Ordered the Fulla 4 to check it out


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I didn't realize that G6 is MORE expensive than even the Hel 2 now.

What is 2021?


----------



## kadinh

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I didn't realize that G6 is MORE expensive than even the Hel 2 now.
> 
> What is 2021?


I see it on Amazon for $170; the gray one is over $200.


----------



## Chastity

https://us.creative.com/p/refurbished/sound-blasterx-g6-b-stock
$99.99


----------



## Skeza

After a long LONG search, I finally bit the bullet and went all out on a pair of LCD-GX's.. I'm in love. Finally i've fell in love with a pair of cans that do everything for me. 
I've had literally every gaming headset from Logitech, Steelseries, Razer, Corsair, all of them. Then went from PC38X>K712>Tygr 300r>4XX>Sundara>DT1990>T1>LCD-GX. Cant tell you how happy I am to find the one. Currently pairing them with a Creative X7, thinking of switching over to the Schiit Hel and using a software VSS. I find SBX great with this cans but I feel like there's better out there


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Something new from Beyer?


----------



## kadinh

Skeza said:


> After a long LONG search, I finally bit the bullet and went all out on a pair of LCD-GX's.. I'm in love. Finally i've fell in love with a pair of cans that do everything for me.
> I've had literally every gaming headset from Logitech, Steelseries, Razer, Corsair, all of them. Then went from PC38X>K712>Tygr 300r>4XX>Sundara>DT1990>T1>LCD-GX. Cant tell you how happy I am to find the one. Currently pairing them with a Creative X7, thinking of switching over to the Schiit Hel and using a software VSS. I find SBX great with this cans but I feel like there's better out there


How would you describe the differences compared to the PC38X?


----------



## ronfifer

Skeza, what is your main use for the LCD-GX? Multiplayer competitive gaming?


----------



## inseconds99

Just purchased a Z1R for everyday usage and gaming. First impressions are not that great. Thick, congested and some frequencies are boosted enough to drown out quiet footsteps for directional queues.

Going to give it another week. I’ll do a bit of tweaking and adjusting before I make my final decision.

Looks like I might still be on the hunt for a TOTL closed back headphone that’s excels in competitive gaming…


----------



## kadinh

inseconds99 said:


> Just purchased a Z1R for everyday usage and gaming. First impressions are not that great. Thick, congested and some frequencies are boosted enough to drown out quiet footsteps for directional queues.
> 
> Going to give it another week. I’ll do a bit of tweaking and adjusting before I make my final decision.
> 
> Looks like I might still be on the hunt for a TOTL closed back headphone that’s excels in competitive gaming…


I tried my IER Z1R for gaming on the PS5 and wasnt my favorite. The openness sounded great, as did most of the sounds, but I had the same experience as you of not being able to hear footsteps very well. Dunu SA6 are still my go-to.


----------



## Hemlocke

Anyone tried the Master & Dynamic MG20 gaming headset yet? They look interesting, if a bit expensive.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Mad Lust Envy said:


> https://koss.com/products/kph40-utility
> 
> Koss Finally did it.
> 
> ...


These look great. Is the sound meant to be like the brighter KSC75 or Bassier PortaPro?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2021)

Judging by how the driver cover looks and the specs, if I were a betting man, I'd say these are just repurposed PortaPro/KSC35 drivers, not the titanium coated KSC75 drivers which are different.

But Koss has never been one to outright say it's the same, and give vague explanations even when asked. "Might be tuned differently" is what I've heard on videos.

The same issue that people have with the 650 and 6XX. One says it's the same, another says it's clearly different.

I should have it soon, but my guess is that if using the same headband or clip, it'll sound too similar to tell.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Judging by how the driver cover looks and the specs, if I were a betting man, I'd say these are just repurposed PortaPro/KSC35 drivers, not the titanium coated KSC75 drivers which are different.
> 
> But Koss has never been one to outright say it's the same, and give vague explanations even when asked. "Might be tuned differently" is what I've heard on videos.
> 
> ...


Looking forward to your impressions. I like both but lean towards the KSC75. I love the band on this new model, the express one is functional but looks cheap, hopefully, it's swappable..


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 18, 2021)

VirtuaVillain said:


> Looking forward to your impressions. I like both but lean towards the KSC75. I love the band on this new model, the express one is functional but looks cheap, hopefully, it's swappable..


You could just buy these, or the Retrospekt P/21, and snap on the KSC75 to them. The Retrospekt saves you $10, and you can just toss the crap drivers on them and keep the headband. Or the KPH40, keep the drivers as spares.

That's what did guy did:





I don't like what the Yaxi pads do to the sound though.


----------



## Chastity

Kicks @Mad Lust Envy for not pinping the current Audeze Sale


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chastity said:


> Kicks @Mad Lust Envy for not pinping the current Audeze Sale


Ah, AH. Sorry!

I've been so busy! It's been.... a hectic day for Audeze, to say the least. I truly apologize.


----------



## AxelCloris

You can usually find current deals on both the homepage and in the Deals Discussion Thread. Audeze also sent out a mailer announcing the sale just before it went live. Plenty of ways to stay on top of Audeze sales without relying on MLE.


----------



## Chastity

It's all good.  Just getting the love out there.   Figured some people here may like some Penrose / Mobius options.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

It's insane how many people refuse to read where it says USA ONLY.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Mericuh! I did notice they had an EU spec amp on there though

Dang, y’all cleaned house! I wonder if those were my R’s for sale?! 🤣🥲


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Nah, I think your R was sold as soon as you returned it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I got the KPH40 in!

No comparisons yet, but I was wrong.

It's NOT the same driver cover! This is the first time they've changed from the old KSC35, Sportapro, Portapro driver cover. Looks similar, but it is definitely different.

Left one is KPH40, right is PortaPro X.




Interesting. I'll have to put them through their paces.


----------



## NewCoke

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I got the KPH40 in!
> 
> No comparisons yet, but I was wrong.
> 
> ...



Good catch.  Are they different sizes?  If they are different sizes, I wonder if Yaxi pads would be compatible or not then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 19, 2021)

The photo makes the KPH40 look bigger, but it's the same dimensions. Yaxi pads would 100% be compatible. Not that I like them. (I think Yaxi pads ruins the sound, IMO)


----------



## RitzyBusiness (Nov 19, 2021)

There is new spatial software, Immerse Hive.  You take a picture of your ear and it employs an AI algorithm.  Its probably the best spatial audio i've ever heard,  in CoD Cold War i've never had such accuracy in positional cues.

https://embody.co/pages/gaming-hive

I learned about them during a FF14 live letter, but their hive software is top notch.  Only downside is its subscription based, $40 for 7 year sub.


----------



## duranxv

RitzyBusiness said:


> There is new spatial software, Immerse Hive.  You take a picture of your ear and it employs an AI algorithm.  Its probably the best spatial audio i've ever heard,  in CoD Cold War i've never had such accuracy in positional cues.
> 
> https://embody.co/pages/gaming-hive
> 
> I learned about them during a FF14 live letter, but their hive software is top notch.  Only downside is its subscription based, $40 for 7 year sub.



Very interesting indeed.  @Mad Lust Envy - can you check it out if you have time?


----------



## illram

I wonder if I did something wrong when I tried it because it sounded absolutely terrible. The audio quality sounded like there was some electrical issue with my cabling, like when you don't plug your headphone cable in all the way but you're still getting sound. (But everything was fine.) I couldn't even get past that to judge the positional accuracy, it was that bad.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You could just buy these, or the Retrospekt P/21, and snap on the KSC75 to them. The Retrospekt saves you $10, and you can just toss the crap drivers on them and keep the headband. Or the KPH40, keep the drivers as spares.
> 
> That's what did guy did:
> 
> ...


Oh, that would be perfect but I'm in Euroland tho so the shipping kills it sadly. I saw the Z Review on the KPH40, he said it sounds different/better than the Porta Pros so definitely interested in getting one even more now. I don't think he talked much about how it compares to the KSC75 sound though.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 20, 2021)

I have to wait until my other Portapro comes back from a repair to test the KPH40 and the Porta both with clips to see if they truly sound different.

I don't wanna compare one with a headband and one with clips.

Right now IF the KPH40 sounds better, it still sounds like a Porta to me, but we'll see. I certainly wouldn't throw my Portapros away just because of this.

As for immerse, eh, if it has a free trial. Embody and Audeze made Reveal together, so maybe I can just ask for a license of Immerse. 👀

I'm too busy this weekend, so it won't be now.


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> I wonder if I did something wrong when I tried it because it sounded absolutely terrible. The audio quality sounded like there was some electrical issue with my cabling, like when you don't plug your headphone cable in all the way but you're still getting sound. (But everything was fine.) I couldn't even get past that to judge the positional accuracy, it was that bad.


I didn't care for it either, even after the ear pictures.  Did not work very well with my high-end headphones, no specific profiles.  Still prefer Redscape.

Also not a fan of their sub.

I did try their Beyerdynamic package with my DT-1990, and that was ok.  But if you have multiple headphones, you will need separate packages, which require their own subs.  No thank you.


----------



## illram

Speaking of Reveal, I'd never heard of it until I checked the Audeze holiday sale. Does the plug-in only work with DAW's? Or is it like any other VSS that you can just select as an audio out? (Is it just an Immerse license variant?)


----------



## Paysen (Nov 21, 2021)

Hey, currently use a K712 Pro with an Objective2 Amp and a Modmic wireless which died on me today. Is there an open headset that is comparable? If not, is there a better Headphone in the same price range (200-300) for mostly competitive gaming? Or a wireless headphone that is compatible since I could use my Modmic wireless and go fully wireless without losing mic quality.

Tried the ADG1X but it was very uncomfortable(for me), tried modding it but it still was not comparable to the AKG.


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 21, 2021)

Paysen, K702 is marginally better headphone (no mic) for competitive gaming and lies on the higher end of your budget. Not recommended for single player gaming.

On the lower end of your budget, consider the Senn+Drop 38X. It is a headset with mic on sale at $130 now.

$200-$300 I would also consider the Monolith 570 which is good all rounder that shines more in open world and competitive gaming. I own both the K702 and the M570.

Proper upgrades to the K712 start at the $700+ range. There is an empty gap for open cans in the $300-$600 range*, so with your budget you can only fine tune or sidegrade based on your application.

*(senn 660s lies in this range @~$500 but i dont recommend it for open world competitve gaming due to its great positioning but small soundstage. E.g: Battlefield? NO. TC Siege or CS? Yes. Overall Verdict: Not recommended for its price)


----------



## inseconds99

Update: Z1R’s we’re returned. The headphone sounded off for gamine. They produced a weird hollowed sound when testing with Halo Infinite, Jedi Fallen Order, Battlefield 2042 and Forza Horizon 5.

Everything sounded like you were listening to the sound through a seashell. Wind and other atmospheric sounds were muffled, unintelligible and unnaturally wide. The treble was still peaky enough to be fatiguing. The bass impact was nice though, something that is missing with my HD800S.

I am thinking about purchasing the HD820, I am looking for a similar HD800S sound in a closed back with elevated bass. Wearing open back is becoming less and less of an option. I need a closed back headphone that is all day comfortable, non fatiguing, great for gaming and a good all around headphone for music listening with slight bass boost. 

Z1R ❌
TH-900 ❌
TH-X00 ❌
M100’s ❌

Still on the hunt it seems…


----------



## ronfifer (Nov 21, 2021)

why did u dismiss the TH-900, inseconds?
senn 630vb maybe?


----------



## Chastity

inseconds99 said:


> Update: Z1R’s we’re returned. The headphone sounded off for gamine. They produced a weird hollowed sound when testing with Halo Infinite, Jedi Fallen Order, Battlefield 2042 and Forza Horizon 5.
> 
> Everything sounded like you were listening to the sound through a seashell. Wind and other atmospheric sounds were muffled, unintelligible and unnaturally wide. The treble was still peaky enough to be fatiguing. The bass impact was nice though, something that is missing with my HD800S.
> 
> ...


Take a look at the Kennerton Magni / Ghallahorns (sp?)  I think they may be what you are looking for.


----------



## inseconds99

ronfifer said:


> why did u dismiss the TH-900, inseconds?
> senn 630vb maybe?


Super fatiguing sound with recessed mids. Not a headphone you can wear all day without tinnitus at the end of the week.



Chastity said:


> Take a look at the Kennerton Magni / Ghallahorns (sp?)  I think they may be what you are looking for.


How are the comfort of these headphones? Pads look like they’d be touching your ears and would be uncomfortable for long sessions.


----------



## Ufasas

using Sennheiser Game Zero with EVGA PCIe card, bass is so fun with this combo,  kicks are sweet while listening to rap / hip hop, sounds crappy only when i turn my head up or left/right, and i have glasses, the better the seal, the better the bass, not fatiguing. Ofc, in fps games to hear steps and bullets far i need AKG k702, but Zero better to block fans noise


----------



## kellte2

inseconds99 said:


> Update: Z1R’s we’re returned. The headphone sounded off for gamine. They produced a weird hollowed sound when testing with Halo Infinite, Jedi Fallen Order, Battlefield 2042 and Forza Horizon 5.
> 
> Everything sounded like you were listening to the sound through a seashell. Wind and other atmospheric sounds were muffled, unintelligible and unnaturally wide. The treble was still peaky enough to be fatiguing. The bass impact was nice though, something that is missing with my HD800S.
> 
> ...


Ether C Flow 1.1. You’re welcome! (eq the bass as necessary)


----------



## Chastity

inseconds99 said:


> How are the comfort of these headphones? Pads look like they’d be touching your ears and would be uncomfortable for long sessions.


Pads are rather big, unless you have Dumbo-grade ears


----------



## Helvetica bold

Order my first pair of Koss headphones (KPH40) super excited!  Won't arrive until first week of Dec tho. No way these are recommended for gaming right? 
Most likely I'll use it for music and youtube videos.


----------



## Youcan1

VZR Model One is on sale for $279.99. I just bought a pair. Hopefully the comfort and sound is there.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 23, 2021)

Helvetica bold said:


> Order my first pair of Koss headphones (KPH40) super excited!  Won't arrive until first week of Dec tho. No way these are recommended for gaming right?
> Most likely I'll use it for music and youtube videos.


Just look at my KSC35/Sportapro review on the first page. They'll essentially perform the same.

As far as I'm concerned, the KPH40 would be the easiest recommendation for me for any purpose (not headset) under $100, and my absolute go to as a secondary or tertiary headphone to compliment your big boy headphones. I would never live without it.

Since the KPH40 exists now, I'd replace the PortaPro/SportaPro in the hierarchy, mainly because the KPH40 headband is just better, period. Howver, as I'm not someone who'd use the headband, I'd take whatever is cheapest and attach KSC75 clips to them (personally speaking). Right now, they're all so close in price, I'd just get the KPH40 for the newer driver cover. edit: I see the SportaPro is $22 right now, which is CONSIDERABLY cheaper than the others at the moment, and I'd GREATLY recommend you get those if you already have a headband or clips, as the Sporta are just PortaPros with a crappier headband, which you can just take the drivers and attach to any clips or other higher end headbands.


I've long been a Koss 60ohm driver fanboy, and that remains.

Maybe I should do a Koss 2021 Review Update  

KPH30i don't make sense these days, now with the KPH40 out.


*edit: Trying to compare the KPH40 on KSC75 clips, with KSC35/PortaPro on KSC75 clips... I CAN hear a difference. The KPH40 drivers seem to split the difference between the brighter/dryer sound of the KSC75, and the bassier, smoother, darker sound of the PortaPro/KSC35. Interesting. Let me compare the other PortaPro I have to it, to see if it holds true.*

Ok so yeah, the KPH40 = more neutral, not as bassy as Porta/35 drivers. This has the effect of pushing the vocals out more. It's good, though I kinda like the more bombastic bass on the Porta/35 drivers. Not sure I'd choose these over a Sportapro/Portapro driver, but these are amazing times for Koss fans. These are likely going to be the new king overall.

I'd say it def falls outside of driver variation, as my Porta and 35 sound identical, and these just don't sound like those.

That is...unless Koss has updated all of them to these new drivers. Who knows...


----------



## sp33ls (Nov 24, 2021)

inseconds99 said:


> Update: Z1R’s we’re returned. The headphone sounded off for gamine. They produced a weird hollowed sound when testing with Halo Infinite, Jedi Fallen Order, Battlefield 2042 and Forza Horizon 5.
> 
> Everything sounded like you were listening to the sound through a seashell. Wind and other atmospheric sounds were muffled, unintelligible and unnaturally wide. The treble was still peaky enough to be fatiguing. The bass impact was nice though, something that is missing with my HD800S.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I actually love the Z1R for gaming and multimedia. I don't get the seashell effect at all in my setup.

If you're willing to spend more cash, the Verite Closed is a pair that is surprisingly good at gaming. May not be the last word in detail (tho, more than enough for gaming), but has great staging, imaging, timbre, dynamics, and speed. But it does require you to find the right pads for your ears. They have a nice "3D effect" which is great for immersion IME


----------



## mac0172

Hi, MLE & other ps5 owners.
May I ask a question here?

At the moment I use a ps5 - hdmi optic adapter- astro mixamp- pc38x with virtual surround on and without tempest 3d. because of all the wires I play on a monitor.  Now im gonna move to a new house in a couple a weeks and bought a 120 fps-4k tv so I'm propably gonna be gaming on a tv and will be playing with my pc38x directly in the controller with tempest 3d on. I already tested this (the 5 profiles on ps5) on cod vanguard & warzone but directional sound(footsteps etc) is so bad compared to my mentioned setup. Does anyone tried both and recognise  this? And or has any advice?


Thnx!


----------



## inseconds99 (Nov 27, 2021)

mac0172 said:


> Hi, MLE & other ps5 owners.
> May I ask a question here?
> 
> At the moment I use a ps5 - hdmi optic adapter- astro mixamp- pc38x with virtual surround on and without tempest 3d. because of all the wires I play on a monitor.  Now im gonna move to a new house in a couple a weeks and bought a 120 fps-4k tv so I'm propably gonna be gaming on a tv and will be playing with my pc38x directly in the controller with tempest 3d on. I already tested this (the 5 profiles on ps5) on cod vanguard & warzone but directional sound(footsteps etc) is so bad compared to my mentioned setup. Does anyone tried both and recognise  this? And or has any advice?
> ...


My recommendation would be to get a sound blaster X7 and the sound blaster Bluetooth adapter. Connect the X7 to amp using optical out from the tv and use the Bluetooth adapter for voice chat Through the X7. It’s what I do and it works flawlessly.


----------



## mac0172

Thnx! Great idea


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Tempest 3D audio works ok or not at all on a game by game basis. I'd definitely look into an alternative if you have options. Like the X7/G6/GC7, etc.


----------



## mac0172

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Tempest 3D audio works ok or not at all on a game by game basis. I'd definitely look into an alternative if you have options. Like the X7/G6/GC7, etc.


In combination with a blue tooth adapter?


----------



## mindbomb

mac0172 said:


> Hi, MLE & other ps5 owners.
> May I ask a question here?
> 
> At the moment I use a ps5 - hdmi optic adapter- astro mixamp- pc38x with virtual surround on and without tempest 3d. because of all the wires I play on a monitor.  Now im gonna move to a new house in a couple a weeks and bought a 120 fps-4k tv so I'm propably gonna be gaming on a tv and will be playing with my pc38x directly in the controller with tempest 3d on. I already tested this (the 5 profiles on ps5) on cod vanguard & warzone but directional sound(footsteps etc) is so bad compared to my mentioned setup. Does anyone tried both and recognise  this? And or has any advice?
> ...



Yea, so there is a sanity check you guys can do if you are questioning whether the processing is actually working right and giving you a big advantage. Record yourself and have a continuous sound positioned in front of you, then rotate clockwise. Then have the sound behind you and rotate counterclockwise. Then rip the audio and put it into an ABX tester.

If the two sound the same or very similar, then there is a problem.


----------



## VirtuaVillain

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Just look at my KSC35/Sportapro review on the first page. They'll essentially perform the same.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the KPH40 would be the easiest recommendation for me for any purpose (not headset) under $100, and my absolute go to as a secondary or tertiary headphone to compliment your big boy headphones. I would never live without it.
> 
> ...


Whoa between Pro and KSC75? sounds perfect! Hope these launch in Europe soon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Nov 28, 2021)

mac0172 said:


> In combination with a blue tooth adapter?



Yeah, I'd look into the Creative BT-W3.





VirtuaVillain said:


> Whoa between Pro and KSC75? sounds perfect! Hope these launch in Europe soon


Yeah. However, it can also be that Koss updated the PoprtaPro/KSC 35, Sporta driver and is using that new version for the KPH40. The reason I say this is because the new PortaPro utility LOOKS like it has the same housing as the KPH40, so it could presumably be the same, and they don't use the drivers from before. However, to ensure you get the new driver, get the KPH40.


----------



## mac0172 (Nov 29, 2021)

Thnx!
I tried googling how to set this up with a ps5, tv, g6 and pc38x, but the internet just seems to tell you how to set this up with any bluetooth headset.
do i plug the little adapter in the controller, optic in a tv, g6 via usb in the ps5?


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, I'd look into the Creative BT-W3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I received my KPH40 yesterday just in time since it’s not available on Amazon at the moment. Now I see what all the fuss is about. Tested them out on some music and these little headphones are truly marvelous! Going to try them out on the PS5 plugged into the controller next. Thanks so much for the recommendation.


----------



## ZzBOG

Hey guys what are the best headphones for gaming in the $500-1500 price range?  Closed or open doesn't really matter. Is HD800/HD800s the endgame / holy grail for gaming? I am interested in semi-competitive FPS and mostly for the soundstage, positional accuracy and for 3D sound


----------



## duranxv

ZzBOG said:


> Hey guys what are the best headphones for gaming in the $500-1500 price range?  Closed or open doesn't really matter. Is HD800/HD800s the endgame / holy grail for gaming? I am interested in semi-competitive FPS and mostly for the soundstage, positional accuracy and for 3D sound



If it's competitive - HD800s from what others have told me.  If you want immersion and to feel explosions etc, go with the Fostex TH900 or 909.


----------



## illram

ZzBOG said:


> Hey guys what are the best headphones for gaming in the $500-1500 price range?  Closed or open doesn't really matter. Is HD800/HD800s the endgame / holy grail for gaming? I am interested in semi-competitive FPS and mostly for the soundstage, positional accuracy and for 3D sound


Thats a huge spending range. 

If you don't mind spending the money, get an HD800S and call it a day. You will always be wondering what you're missing out on if you don't.

If you don't feel the need to spend the money you can get great sounding headphones for a lot less that are great in games. I bought a pair of 990 Pro's on sale a few months ago and my HD800S grew cobwebs on them after. (Literally, I picked then up and there were spiderwebs in them). They're super fun if you like a more v-shaped sound (I do in games especially). Easy to drive. Great soundstage and I was really impressed with their imaging. Super accurate. MLE has a review of them on the first page. Treble is a real thing on these cans but for "competitive" FPS soundwhoring that can actually come in handy. But unlike the HD800S you don't need any EQ if you want some more "fun" elevated bass either. 

I really like them, I feel like they're a fantastic performer for their price range (especially on sale).


----------



## p1zzap1e

I have a decision to make regarding headphones for gaming. I am currently choosing between getting the fostex t50rp with a desire to mod them with clay, felt and cotton, or getting the monoprice 1060c. I was planning on getting the fostex a couple of months ago but choose to wait until christmas instead. I am a noob when it comes to headphones but like to tinker a little bit and would love the project, at the same time the drivers in the monoprice seems good.

I have a dac/amp that i think can run the fostex and am looking for a headphone that gives me good immersion for single player games, not trebblefocused competitive games.  Open-backs are out of the question for family reasons.

Any tips or pointers on what to aim for?


----------



## Chastity

illram said:


> If you don't mind spending the money, get an HD800S and call it a day. You will always be wondering what you're missing out on if you don't.


I'd put my Monolith M1570 up against the HD-800S anyday.

@p1zzap1e Take a look at Kennerton's offerings, they have some excellent closed-backs.  The Magni and Gjallahorns are graphene dynamic drivers, and the other models are planars.


----------



## ronfifer

p1zzap1e said:


> am looking for a headphone that gives me good immersion for single player games, not trebblefocused competitive games.


- Audioquest Nighthawk 
- Argon Mk3 (based on Fostex T50rp)
- Meze 99 Classics
- Sennheiser HD630VB
- Sony Z1R when on Sale + coupon + rakuten cashback


----------



## p1zzap1e

Thx for the tips! I can strech my budget to around 300, and i live in europe. Could get the fostex for around 150, and could try to mod them. Geting argons might be to much considering shipping.


----------



## kadinh

2 things:

1. removed the UAC1 DAC between my PS5 and Topping E30 DAC, sent audio through HDMI to TV, then TV to E30 through optical. I can confirm this functions, but don't think 3D audio is passed as well (didn't test to find out).

2. Bought a Schiit Fulla to have an alternative when I want to use the PC38X headset and not IEMs + wireless modmic. Worked 100% with PS5, no issues, no complaints. However, I didnt realize the Xbox Series S/X does not support mic input over USB (havent messed with an xbox in years). Apparently xbox wont let you use a usb mic...at all (without adapters/work arounds). I tried for a good 45 minutes to get the Fulla and E30/L30 to work through different routes; sounded GREAT when playing Halo Infinite, but i could only use my mic when the headset was plugged into the controller, which made the audio sound bad. Made me appreciate Sony even more.


----------



## Evshrug

mac0172 said:


> In combination with a blue tooth adapter?


Just in case you wondered what the point of the USB Bluetooth dongle was… the X7 is not compatible with the PlayStation USB. However, the X7 is very, very versatile. Since it can play audio from multiple sources at once, what you do is use the Bluetooth for chat audio, the optical for game audio (make sure both your console and TV/optical extractor are set to passthrough the Dolby bitstream), and then you will hear everything and you can plug your mic into the port on front of the X7 (or use the X7’s built-in mic… which is just ok).

I did this for years, also had my USB connected to my computer and the speaker taps connected to either small bookshelf speakers or a Stax energizer. The X7 was ideal for dorms/apartments.



duranxv said:


> If it's competitive - HD800s from what others have told me.  If you want immersion and to feel explosions etc, go with the Fostex TH900 or 909.


HD 800(S) with gaming is a unique experience. It sounds hyper realistic rather than entertaining, and the incisive resolution and detail really do just make things easy to hear. It’s an edge-of-your-seat presentation that really grabs your attention, and it has low distortion.

I do get tired sitting on the edge of my seat after a few matches though. In FPS games in particular… gunshots aren’t exactly soothing sounds, and the HD 800(S) reproduces that faithfully even if it is fatiguing. So, I was using an HD 660S because it was almost as detailed, but had more bass warmth and with less upper mids came a bit less fatigue. Nowadays, I’m using either the PC38X or HD 8XX. The PC38X is efficient enough to use straight from the PS5 controller (but better with the Creative G5 or G6). The Hd 8xx is better though… it’s a more laid back HD 800, maybe a bit of an indulgence but I really enjoy it.



illram said:


> Thats a huge spending range.
> 
> If you don't mind spending the money, get an HD800S and call it a day. You will always be wondering what you're missing out on if you don't.
> 
> ...


Hmm, haven’t heard those new Beyer’s yet.
I’m at the stage where too much bass can be just as fatiguing to me as too much treble. Like the Campfire cascade… not for me, ymmv. I do have a pair of Fostex TH-X00, and the bass from the IE 900 is pretty quality, but I keep coming back to the PC38X and HD 8xx because I like their balance and comfort.


----------



## kadinh

I can agree, HD800S has been _*the best*_ headphone I have used while FPS gaming. I have been using the PC38X with Fulla Schiit on PS5 recently, trying to get used to them to compare them with the Dunu SA6 with Topping E30/L30 and USB wireless ModMic that I usually use. Want to test to see if I can tell a difference between using open back headphones (with Tempest 3D Audio) and IEMs (potentially no 3D audio); I usually play Apex Legends and Rocket League, so I don't think they support 3D audio anyways...


----------



## kadinh

PS - has there been a thread dedicated to PS5 Tempest audio? I don't remember seeing one and would like to discuss which games utilize it the best.


----------



## Evshrug

kadinh said:


> PS - has there been a thread dedicated to PS5 Tempest audio? I don't remember seeing one and would like to discuss which games utilize it the best.


Let me know if you find one; I listed it among several other spatial audio (formerly headphone surround) filters in my blog in my signature. I’ve been pretty impressed with it in Returnal, but money was tight and the backlog is real, so I haven’t played many “full-fat” PS5 games yet 😅


----------



## kadinh

Evshrug said:


> Let me know if you find one; I listed it among several other spatial audio (formerly headphone surround) filters in my blog in my signature. I’ve been pretty impressed with it in Returnal, but money was tight and the backlog is real, so I haven’t played many “full-fat” PS5 games yet 😅


Funny you mention Returnal. I borrowed it from a friend a few months ago, never got past the title screen bc other games too precedence. He dropped by Saturday last week to pick it back up.....


----------



## Evshrug

There’s a case to be made that we are over saturated with great games right now 😂 Thank goodness for backwards compatibility, because I probably have over a thousand hours of really good gameplay I haven’t even touched yet 😂

I really like Returnal, and so does @NiGHTS4EVA and @Yethal. Even Day[9], if you want a YouTube personality 😂 The senses of wonder, mystery, and danger are strong, the gameplay is challenging and rewarding, but I also feel it is a great showcase of the PS5’s next gen features. There is haptic rain on your controller, the resistive triggers give you two stages and modes of fire, there is some raytracing in the visuals and great particle effects, and of course there is full usage of Tempest 3D audio. There have been several instances of me dodging something off-screen in just the Nick of time, but it’s also very atmospheric and immersive to the game world. I’ve been playing it with my PC38X plugged into my good old Creative BlasterX G5, and woah the soundtrack and bass effects are impressive as they wash over you!

While the scale of the game is simultaniously expanded and limited by it’s indie nature and shuffled-rooms style procedurally generated levels, and some people are afraid of rogue-lite games (each biome is a checkpoint, and you do earn some persistent currency, unlock permanent suit upgrades, buuut you are supposed to die and try each biome a few times), I do think it’s a very solid game and should garner a cult-following. If you liked the Alien and Prometheus movies, and soulsborne games, you would probably like Returnal


----------



## duranxv

For those of you that have monster gaming rigs - do you use a USB isolator to reduce static/noise coming out of the PC into your external DAC?  

I'm having that problem with my Bifrost 2, so I had to switch to optical (not ideal) to get rid of the noise.  Any recommendations?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Back in my old home, I had horrific USB noise. Buy external usb hub where it's powered by the wall, and not the PC.

This one worked for me.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NJP7BXQ/


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> For those of you that have monster gaming rigs - do you use a USB isolator to reduce static/noise coming out of the PC into your external DAC?
> 
> I'm having that problem with my Bifrost 2, so I had to switch to optical (not ideal) to get rid of the noise.  Any recommendations?


I have it on my rig, and use an isolator dongle to fix mine.  But the Bifrost 2 is suppose to have an isolator circuit built-in.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Back in my old home, I had horrific USB noise. Buy external usb hub where it's powered by the wall, and not the PC.
> 
> This one worked for me.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NJP7BXQ/



Oh nice, I actually do need a hub too, so this hits two birds with one stone   With the hub, are isolators still needed?


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Oh nice, I actually do need a hub too, so this hits two birds with one stone   With the hub, are isolators still needed?


You won't know until you try the hub.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> You won't know until you try the hub.



Ok, will definitely get it.  Any particular high quality USB cables that you guys use that are worth the money?


----------



## p1zzap1e

Anyone have experience gaming with Sony MDR-Z7? How are they soundwise?


----------



## Youcan1

Just got the VZR Model One in. Great build quality and they feel comfortable. I'll leave it running on my MP3 player overnight and do some real listening tomorrow.


----------



## Evshrug

duranxv said:


> Ok, will definitely get it.  Any particular high quality USB cables that you guys use that are worth the money?


For the standard USB type A or USB A to B cables, I like the Belkin Gold line. They’ve sadly been discontinued, but I easily found a large selection on eBay for $12. These ain’t no printer cables… they’re well built to meet or exceed the USB Standard specifications


----------



## Jarmel

So I'm trying to decide between the Sound BlasterX G6 and the Schiit Hel2. Is there any strong preference one way or another? Mainly concerned about the sound quality. I'll be using both on my PS5 and PC. I'm not concerned about the price difference between the two, primarily which will sound better.


----------



## p1zzap1e

Jarmel said:


> So I'm trying to decide between the Sound BlasterX G6 and the Schiit Hel2. Is there any strong preference one way or another? Mainly concerned about the sound quality. I'll be using both on my PS5 and PC. I'm not concerned about the price difference between the two, primarily which will sound better.


Dont have experience with schiit hel2, but i love my blasterx g6. I use it daily on my xbox series x and pc, and also when working from home in zoom-calls and listening to music while working. Play alot of battlefield and use it without any sbx, i let dolby atmos stand for surround when i need it. It works great, is simple to use and i have nothing bad to say about it.


----------



## duranxv

Jarmel said:


> So I'm trying to decide between the Sound BlasterX G6 and the Schiit Hel2. Is there any strong preference one way or another? Mainly concerned about the sound quality. I'll be using both on my PS5 and PC. I'm not concerned about the price difference between the two, primarily which will sound better.



The G6 is a solid choice.  I'd get it over the Hel2 in my opinion.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 5, 2021)

Hel 2 is a much stronger amp and has a better DAC. It's also very simplistic to use, so if you're not about all the features and things you won't use, go with the Hel 2. Otherwise, the G6 is for those that love to tailor a bunch of options. There are upsides to having a lot of options, but it can also be a bit overwhelming. The other benefit of the G6 over the Hel 2 is that it doesn't need to be powered through an outlet, while the Hel 2 does. So the G6 can be used on the go for laptops, etc. It also has SBX if you use virtual surround, which is a better choice than Tempest 3D on PS5 and Dolby Atmos, IMHO.

If it were up to me, I'd get the G6 and then save up for like a Magni or better for an amp to pair with it later.


----------



## p1zzap1e

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It also has SBX if you use virtual surround, which is a better choice than Tempest 3D on PS5 and Dolby Atmos, IMHO.


Better really? I have to compare. Always used atmos and direct mode or just with sbx off.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I was interested in the G6 as well however looking at the gamevoice mix setup on Soundblasters site turned me off. "Connect the supplied optical cable from the SPDIF Out/optical out of the HDMI-to-Optical converter into the optical in port of the Sound BlasterX G6" : O  Since he PS5 has an HDMI 2.1 port I rather just leave that connected directly to my TV and not fudge with it. You can thus plug it to the PS5s USB port or am I misunderstanding it?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 5, 2021)

If your TV has Dolby Digital (making sure the TV sound options has bitstream/dolby digital) out capablity, you don't need an adapter. Just plug the optical cable straight from the TV's optical out (if you want to use things like SBX). Otherwise, you can just use the USB connection on the PS5, if you don't plan on needing the dolby digital source for virtual surround. It'll work like a regular usb/dac amp in this manner, with mic input.

If you're planning on using the G6 just as a usb device for the PS5, this is where I'd personally go with the Hel 2 instead. A higher tier device, though simpler in function. More performance just as a stereo dac/amp than the G6.


----------



## BadBoyBrazil

How often has this thread been updated. I haven’t been here in years. Always trusted Mad Lust Envy’s review in the past! Also it’s there a different thread with reviews like this?


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Back in my old home, I had horrific USB noise. Buy external usb hub where it's powered by the wall, and not the PC.
> 
> This one worked for me.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08NJP7BXQ/



You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.  The USB hub fixed the problem perfectly


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 5, 2021)

BadBoyBrazil said:


> How often has this thread been updated. I haven’t been here in years. Always trusted Mad Lust Envy’s review in the past! Also it’s there a different thread with reviews like this?


I'm always around, if you mean first page, I plan on reviewing the Koss KPH40 soon. Not exactly the most exciting entry, but it's something I love, so I wanna write about it. My last review was 3 months ago too. So it's not like I don't do anything. 

As I work for Audeze now, I have to be a bit more careful in what I put out there in the world.




duranxv said:


> You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.  The USB hub fixed the problem perfectly


Damn, you got that thing quickly!

But yeah, sometimes USB noise can be mitigated by having the hub feed whatever is connected to it, power that isn't coming from the source system/PC. Trust me, it wasn't for lack of trying. It took me awhile to find a fix.


----------



## Youcan1

I spent some time with the VZR Model One yesterday and they are easily the best gaming headset I've ever heard. Keeping in mind I haven't heard any of the Audeze or Sennheiser/EPOS models, but at the very least I can say that none of those will touch this in terms of build quality. I think I agree with Eurogamer's take the most for their sound signature. It's spacious for a closed back (I have no idea if that's due to the "acoustic lens" or not). It has a warmer and slightly more laid back sound to me, not completely neutral like I've seen some reviews say. Now hopefully Creative will fix the PS5 volume issue with the Play! 4 so I don't have to keep using the controller output (it does get them plenty loud though)


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Youcan1 said:


> I spent some time with the VZR Model One yesterday and they are easily the best gaming headset I've ever heard. Keeping in mind I haven't heard any of the Audeze or Sennheiser/EPOS models, but at the very least I can say that none of those will touch this in terms of build quality. I think I agree with Eurogamer's take the most for their sound signature. It's spacious for a closed back (I have no idea if that's due to the "acoustic lens" or not). It has a warmer and slightly more laid back sound to me, not completely neutral like I've seen some reviews say. Now hopefully Creative will fix the PS5 volume issue with the Play! 4 so I don't have to keep using the controller output (it does get them plenty loud though)


Oh, that's a handsome piece of kit.


----------



## Leberkassemmel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> _*1.* The Surround function on the GC7 is not properly handling 7.1/5.1 channel into headphone surround. The rear positional cues don't sound like they're mixing down from a rear channel source. The G6's SBX surround implementation sounds much better in comparison, with proper surround cues._
> 
> 
> *We identified a bug in the channel mapping and we will be rolling a fix for this in addition to other device optimization. The consolidated update is planned for release latest within these 2 months. We’ll keep you updated when it’s released. Great that you caught it! Most folks couldn’t tell the difference 😊*


Is there any information, if this has been fixed until now?

I tried several Software-Virtual-Surround-Sound-Programs for Apex Legends in the last weeks and would also like to try the GC7, but if its still broken, i dont think its a good idea to get it.


----------



## kadinh

Leberkassemmel said:


> Is there any information, if this has been fixed until now?
> 
> I tried several Software-Virtual-Surround-Sound-Programs for Apex Legends in the last weeks and would also like to try the GC7, but if its still broken, i dont think its a good idea to get it.


Have you found anything that works for Apex? I haven't found anything that makes it sound better, just kinda accepted that it sounds the way it does.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Leberkassemmel said:


> Is there any information, if this has been fixed until now?
> 
> I tried several Software-Virtual-Surround-Sound-Programs for Apex Legends in the last weeks and would also like to try the GC7, but if its still broken, i dont think its a good idea to get it.


I recently used the GC7, and the non-SXFI surround mode works, only in 5.1 mode (not 7.1). Latest software. I haven't heard anything from Creative as of yet.


----------



## Leberkassemmel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I recently used the GC7, and the non-SXFI surround mode works, only in 5.1 mode (not 7.1). Latest software. I haven't heard anything from Creative as of yet.


Thanks for the information, I wont buy it then.



kadinh said:


> Have you found anything that works for Apex? I haven't found anything that makes it sound better, just kinda accepted that it sounds the way it does.


I tried the following Surround-Sound-Programms with my DT1990 (with analytical pads):

Dolby Atmos from Windows Store: It's not really good, the biggest problem is, that the bass is boosted so much that it covers a lot of sounds. If u dont use the "Gaming Performance Mode" and use one with custom EQ and turn the bass down it gets a bit better, i still didnt like it tho. It also kinda felt like that loud sounds sound even louder with Atmos, which made it really uncomfortable to play with it.

DTS:X from Windows store: I didnt like this as well, it had too much reverb for my liking. It also sounded like loud sounds (like gunshots) were too loud, not as bad as with atmos, but still too much for my taste.

Razer THX Spatial Audio: The "Tournament" (highs boosted way too much, similiar to creatives scout mode) and "Ambiant Sound" (way too much reverb) setting were really bad, the standard "THX Spatial Audio" setting was pretty good tho. I prefered this over stereo, it definitiely made it easier for me to spot other players. The problem with it is the bad razer software, one day it works really good, the next day its just broken out of nowhere. The Problems were: sometimes everything sounds like its coming from above u, another time the sound just plays in muffled stereo, another time the surround sound kinda works but also not really, because it sounds different than it should sound. The software overall is just buggy, and I had to reinstall it several times.

Im currently trying out HeSuvi, but there are so many options, i havent been able to find one that im 100% satisfied with.


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 7, 2021)

try WaveNX and Redscape.


----------



## Chastity (Dec 7, 2021)

ronfifer said:


> try WaveNX and Redscape.


Waves is no longer selling licenses for Waves NX, so unless someone will give you their license, you'd be SOL.

I CAN recommend Redscape, just check with the author to get his current 20% off code.

With Dolby Access, try to NOT use the presets, as they include EQ.  Try using the Custom options, and disable whatever is undesired, or make your own EQ.


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 7, 2021)

This is me rocking Dolby Atmos for Headphones (Game Mode) with the HE-4XX and the K702. Never felt the need to upgrade from Dolby Atmos for Headphones for all battlefield games.


Spoiler: scoreboard with Dolby Atmos for Headphones & HE-4XX












Spoiler: scoreboard with Dolby Atmos for Headphones & K702









Take this with a pinch of salt because the enemy team might have been new to the game after it moved to STEAM recently, while I have been playing everyday since 2016. So I am not saying this score is exclusively because i am using dolby atmos and the said headphones.


----------



## pervysage

pervysage said:


> I picked up a pair of Koss KSC75 clip-ons just for the heck of it lol (but mostly because I wanted a headphone I can slip on while sleeping and not be bothered by it). But then I got to thinking I might give em' a whirl for gaming as well because that sensation of not having headphones on your head might be nice and I've heard pretty good things about the sound quality.
> 
> Going to be interesting to see if I can do a HPEQ measurement for them on the Realiser A16 (should be possible since they aren't IEM's and can comfortably sit on top of the measurement microphones while they are in your ear.



Still rocking the KSC75 with the Realiser A16 since this previous post back in July lol. I feel ashamed that I have headphones like the HD800 & Utopia just collecting dust but the comfort is just so damn good compared to your traditional headphones.

And the autoEQ that the Realiser A16 does with the KSC75 makes them sound fantastic for anything really, even music sounds great.


----------



## MarkDraconian

Chastity said:


> Waves is no longer selling licenses for Waves NX, so unless someone will give you their license, you'd be SOL.



Yeah... was doing a little research about Waves Nx today and found this:





Now i really doubt that this app will come back soon. But i'm still hoping that they bring a new app for that, like a substitute.


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> Waves is no longer selling licenses for Waves NX, so unless someone will give you their license, you'd be SOL.
> 
> I CAN recommend Redscape, just check with the author to get his current 20% off code.
> 
> With Dolby Access, try to NOT use the presets, as they include EQ.  Try using the Custom options, and disable whatever is undesired, or make your own EQ.



Agreed.  Redscape has been by far the best VSS software out of all of them.  I used to use SBX, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X and I can't go back to them ever since switching to Redscape.


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Agreed.  Redscape has been by far the best VSS software out of all of them.  I used to use SBX, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X and I can't go back to them ever since switching to Redscape.


For me, having 96KHz support on the VSS is important, as I do have rips of DVD-A tracks that are 24/96 5.1.  Waves and Redscape supports this, and the Windows Spatial plugins do not.  I also prefer Redscape's Room Acoustic model.


----------



## illram

I love that you can use Redscape with anything. My GC7 is gathering dust on the corner of my desk. If they ever change their lame restriction and allow line out, I might go back.


----------



## Viggen66

I own a GC7, and am I the only one who has the main request to output SXFI through optic out.

I use this DAC for surround sound as a pass through, sound coming from consoles or media hubs, optic in > GC7 > optic out > Bluetooth transmitter, and this configuration only works for SBX or acoustic sound not SXFI.

Ofc, already bought a premium 3.5 mm analog cable, to have SXFI enabled, and send it to the Bluetooth transmitter,  but I notice the sound is not the same, we are approaching the modern age, I rather run away from analog sound as much as I can.

Also don't know if anyone has noticed it, sometimes when SXFI is on, on games with only background sounds, like winds or very subtle sounds, like birds or similar, the DAC just mutes itself, no sound output at all, that doesn't happen when acoustic sound is on.

I know Creative going to release a new firmware addressing the lack of rear surround sound, besides that I really like this DAC, I came from a G6, and like it better.


----------



## Youcan1

For anyone that cares the Sound Blaster Play! 4 had the volume issue fixed on PS5 with a firmware update. Unfortunately it introduces an echo on the mic when you raise the volume and the mic is literally unusable on the two highest volume settings on the device volume level. If you don't care about the mic or don't mind using the controller mic input it's a cheap way to get good wired sound right from the PS5. Keep in mind it won't drive power hungry headphones.


----------



## illram

Viggen66 said:


> I own a GC7, and am I the only one who has the main request to output SXFI through optic out.
> 
> I use this DAC for surround sound as a pass through, sound coming from consoles or media hubs, optic in > GC7 > optic out > Bluetooth transmitter, and this configuration only works for SBX or acoustic sound not SXFI.
> 
> Ofc, already bought a premium 3.5 mm analog cable, to have SXFI enabled, and send it to the Bluetooth transmitter,  but I notice the sound is not the same, we are approaching the modern age, I rather run away from analog sound as much as I can.


Many of us have been complaining about this for a looong time. Not just on the GC7 either, their entire product suite for SXFi seems designed to never output SXFi via any line out signal whatsoever. The farthest I got was their official subreddit moderator telling me that engineering told him this was a design decision. Personally I moved on to Redscape as I find the rear cues comparable, the overall audio quality to be excellent, and it is just software so I can output it to anything I want.


----------



## Viggen66 (Dec 14, 2021)

I use a premium 3.5mm audio male to male to connect GC7 to my bluetooth transmitter, probably have minimal to none audio quality lost, I don't know if we are allowed to say brand names, but I got a kabledirekt cable, ofc there are far better cables, but this one is a good one.

I don't connect GC7 to a PC, only for consoles and media players through optic in, but I really like this DAC it delivers an unbelievable surround experience, the best I had, SXFI is one of a kind DSP processor.

But nothing beats digital quality, sound is louder and more clear.

Already seen the website from Redscape, as always companies think people use Windows as their main OS, when comparing to Linux, Windows just falls down to its mediocrity, and its joke security.


----------



## Chastity

Viggen66 said:


> I use a premium 3.5mm audio male to male to connect GC7 to my bluetooth transmitter, probably have minimal to none audio quality lost, I don't know if we are allowed to say brand names, but I got a kabledirekt cable, ofc there are far better cables, but this one is a good one.
> 
> I don't connect GC7 to a PC, only for consoles and media players through optic in, but I really like this DAC it delivers an unbelievable surround experience, the best I had, SXFI is one of a kind DSP processor.
> 
> ...


If you chose to avoid judging people on what OS they prefer, I won't comment on your choice of overpriced snake-oil cables.    Not a good way to start off on this forum.


----------



## Viggen66

Chastity,

Alright no judge on everyone's choice of OS, everybody is free to do whatever it wants to.

You said about snake-oil cables, I give you reason, but I simply don't like anything that is analog, choosing between a standard 3.5mm cable which comes with a cheap Chinese gadget and this cable which has some supposedly quality, I rather trust this one , but what can be done? Creative until now hasn't open their agenda, to answer our requests, horrible choice of not delivering SXFI effects to digital.

I own two G6, is a good DAC, and from begging to end, everything was digital, much better solution than inserting an analog source in between like GC7 does now.

Speaking of G6, it has some issues when decoding Dolby Digital, some randoms distortions, which sound like a pop sound, which can happen one day, and the other day no problem, is weird, I guess is some algorithm issue, introduced into their SB Axx1 chip, that was one of the reasons I bought the GC7.


----------



## Chastity

Viggen66 said:


> Chastity,
> 
> Alright no judge on everyone's choice of OS, everybody is free to do whatever it wants to.
> 
> ...


SXFi over digital out is something they intentionally chose to block, and that is fine.  In return, I decided to not buy any of their hardware.    I gather from your posts you use the G6 with consoles, which makes sense.  Using one simply for PC has become obsolete, and thus why mine is retired.  Software VSS has come a long way, and can be superior to the SBX implementation, tho I suppose a Linux gamer could benefit from hardware VSS.  (I don't know what software options exist for Linux)

If you want to use SXFi, it's not a major issue using the analog out, tho having it work via Line-Out would have been best.  Use the headphone port, and adjust the volume out so that your amp isn't causing any clipping of the audio, or creating distortion from double-amping.  Use a low gain setting, as if you were using an IEM.  If your headset is under 100 ohm, and has good sensitivity, just drive them from the SXFi hardware.


----------



## Viggen66

Chastity

For Linux you have pulse effects, which has lots of customizations, actually too much. 

I don't play on pc, I use it only for office work and media watching and now and then some programming. 

I use gc7 as a pass-through for surround effects for my consoles and media player, consoles > optic in > gc7 > Bluetooth transmitter, gc7 without sxfi works like g6, sbx effects are transfered through optic out, but not sxfi, probably you're right it isn't a big issue 3.5 mm to the Bluetooth transmitter, if you think of it when you connect your headphones to your pc or a console controller it still going to use a 3.5 mm analog cable not a optic cable. 

As my gc7 is at 25% volume to the Bluetooth transmittor, the sound is so loud on my headphones, and yes I truly like the surround effects from sxfi, for console gaming there's nothing better than it, tried atmos app from xbox store, the other DTS x, both are so weak, when compared to sxfi.


----------



## roladyzator

I measured GC7 headphone out using a loop from the headphone out to line in.
Results were very good, with SNR at ~110 dB, low THD, crosstalk below 80 dB, almost flat FR (just ~0.5 dB increase from 10 kHz to 20 kHz if I remember right). 
Goes to 2.4V RMS before clipping. 

I doubt that you can improve the quality when using digital connection, given that you're going to compress the audio anyway for Bluetooth transmission.

I understand your concern with lack of digital out for SXFI,  that's a stupid marketing decision IMO. Still, using analog out to connect to a further audio device should work good.


----------



## Viggen66

roladyzator,

Thanks for your reply and technical analysis, I knew before hand this is a good DAC, for me is a huge upgrade from the G6, in what concerns surrounds effects, to listen to music, I reckon you must know of better dacs for that particular purpose, but since GC7 is directed to gaming, for me, this is the best DAC out there for people who want to upgrade their consoles effects.


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 15, 2021)

Never heard the G6 but I second that SXFI is great for games. With PS5 being scarcely available and expensive at that, upgrading the sound can also elevate your experience to a new level.

There are many new exciting room virtualization apps and plugins, even free one like HeSuVi for PC use, but consoles users aren't so lucky
I'm glad that Creative is doing something and hope they continuing to evolve the SXFI (for example the Gen3 personalization profile does sound more natural to me than Gen2).

I actually sometimes put SXFI on for music for a change. Works well with KSC75, I can get nice bass out of these with SXFI on and the bass dial turned up. I did not expect that.

What's your experience? Any headphone which sound well with SXFI?


----------



## Jcue

Hello everyone, first time posting here, but I have a quick question. 

So my setup is currently Audio Technica ws1100is while using the onboard audio of my motherboard (SupremeFX S1220A).

I have the PC38x and a GC7 on the way. I was wondering how much better this setup will sound, and also what to look for when comparing. This will be my first time delving into the audiophile world, so I have no idea what to look for and probably need to do some research into some terms so I have an idea.


----------



## illram

roladyzator said:


> Never heard the G6 but I second that SXFI is great for games. With PS5 being scarcely available and expensive at that, upgrading the sound can also elevate your experience to a new level.
> 
> There are many new exciting room virtualization apps and plugins, even free one like HeSuVi for PC use, but consoles users aren't so lucky
> I'm glad that Creative is doing something and hope they continuing to evolve the SXFI (for example the Gen3 personalization profile does sound more natural to me than Gen2).
> ...


Forgot they updated to gen3 recently. May have to dust off the old gc7. 

I tried the older sxfi amp (first one) headphone out to my Koss Esp950 (via the electrostat amp), it was fine. Just hate the idea of double amping. But your measurements make me a little more comfortable with the idea for sure.


----------



## ronfifer (Dec 15, 2021)

Jcue said:


> Hello everyone, first time posting here, but I have a quick question.
> 
> So my setup is currently Audio Technica ws1100is while using the onboard audio of my motherboard (SupremeFX S1220A).
> 
> I have the PC38x and a GC7 on the way. I was wondering how much better this setup will sound, and also what to look for when comparing. This will be my first time delving into the audiophile world, so I have no idea what to look for and probably need to do some research into some terms so I have an idea.



For gaming I assume?

You will be able to more accurately position the sounds around you, this we call "*imaging*"
You will be able to hear things further away from you, within an oval, circular, or semi-circular perimeter, this we call "*soundstage*"
You will be able to hear things for the first time that you didn't know existed in the game before, such as soldiers mumbling words when dying, soldiers whispering in your ear in the trenches, a bird tweeting on a tree in the battlefield, enemy reloading their weapon, you stepping on a dry leaf, etc.. this we call "*detail retrieval*"
You will hear all these distinct sounds (relatively speaking) with clarity and without them being congested or overlapping on top of each other, this we call "*separation*" or "*resolution*" or "*clarity*"
You will hear more of the high-pitched, metallic  sounds or footstep sounds or simply the sound of air in what we call a "*bright*" headphone (Treble)
You will hear more of the rumble, texture and punch of explosions in what what we call a "*warm*" headphone (bass)
The PC 38X, being a low-fi gear, will not necessarily deliver perfectly on all of these aspects combined, but it will definitely give you a taste of each unlike a regular gaming headset.


----------



## Jcue

ronfifer said:


> For gaming I assume?
> 
> You will be able to more accurately position the sounds around you, this we call "*imaging*"
> You will be able to hear things further away from you, within an oval, circular, or semi-circular perimeter, this we call "*soundstage*"
> ...


Thank you! And yes for gaming. I'm looking forward to giving these things a try. 

Also thanks for explaining what I'm looking for, I tried asking somewhere else and all I got was "use google". i have been going through this thread and it seems like a pretty good community.


----------



## Hemlocke

Jcue said:


> Thank you! And yes for gaming. I'm looking forward to giving these things a try.
> 
> Also thanks for explaining what I'm looking for, I tried asking somewhere else and all I got was "use google". i have been going through this thread and it seems like a pretty good community.


There’s a time for “use Google,“ but this definitely isn’t it. Welcome to the forums.


----------



## NewCoke

Jcue said:


> Hello everyone, first time posting here, but I have a quick question.
> 
> So my setup is currently Audio Technica ws1100is while using the onboard audio of my motherboard (SupremeFX S1220A).
> 
> I have the PC38x and a GC7 on the way. I was wondering how much better this setup will sound, and also what to look for when comparing. This will be my first time delving into the audiophile world, so I have no idea what to look for and probably need to do some research into some terms so I have an idea.


I have been meaning to ask this...

Doesn't the GC7 need a headphone with at least 80 ohm for it not to mess with a headphone's FR (because of the GC7s 10 ohm output impedence if by going by the 1/8th rule)?  I plugged the 60 ohm Koss budget "Trinity" into the GC7 and I did not like how they sounded. 

The PC38x is 28 ohm and is outside of the GC7's 32-300 ohm headphone specs.  Might not be a good fit for the GC7?


----------



## Jcue (Dec 16, 2021)

NewCoke said:


> I have been meaning to ask this...
> 
> Doesn't the GC7 need a headphone with at least 80 ohm for it not to mess with a headphone's FR (because of the GC7s 10 ohm output impedence if by going by the 1/8th rule)?  I plugged the 60 ohm Koss budget "Trinity" into the GC7 and I did not like how they sounded.
> 
> The PC38x is 28 ohm and is outside of the GC7's 32-300 ohm headphone specs.  Might not be a good fit for the GC7?


Apparently at some point it changed, Maybe? I have read reviews and have seen reddit post where it is stated to be at 2 or lower impeadance, the. Some at 10. One reddit post even stated 2 then a while later someone commented and said it's 10 now that it must have changed. I would be very curious what it actually is.


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 16, 2021)

I just measured GC7 frequency response in three scenarios. See attached graph.
1. Connected through a 3.5mm -> 2x 3.5mm splitter to line in (presumably 10 kOhm) and K371 (32 Ohm)
2. Connected through a 3.5mm -> 2x 3.5mm splitter to line in and nothing in the other 3.5mm jack.
3. Connected through a 3.5mm -> 2x 3.5mm splitter to line in and K702 (62 Ohm)

The difference in measured voltage would suggest output impedance of 10 Ohm.
But it doesn't cause that much of a difference in FR.

There is some noise in the graph lines because I tested on a low volume due to K371's sensitivity.
Didn't want to put the entire house on alert with the sound of the sweep at full 2.4V output


----------



## Viggen66

What is this new SXFI gen3? I know GC7 if I'm not mistaken had in beginning gen1 and they upgraded to gen2, concerning the latest firmware 1.2 which is the second one they released, I notice yesterday again, when SXFI is turned on, and when it has little background noise, like birds, steps etc, the SXFI just mutes itself, you don't hear anything, but when I turn off SXFI to SBX, this doesn't happen, some bug on the SXFI.

I reckon SXFI must be an sound algorithm, which is directed to the  X-FI Ultra DSP chip, to process.


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 16, 2021)

Viggen66 said:


> What is this new SXFI gen3? I know GC7 if I'm not mistaken had in beginning gen1 and they upgraded to gen2, concerning the latest firmware 1.2 which is the second one they released, I notice yesterday again, when SXFI is turned on, and when it has little background noise, like birds, steps etc, the SXFI just mutes itself, you don't hear anything, but when I turn off SXFI to SBX, this doesn't happen, some bug on the SXFI.
> 
> I reckon SXFI must be an sound algorithm, which is directed to the  X-FI Ultra DSP chip, to process.


There are some bugs with SXFI on GC7 and they have to address them in firmware updates.

The way SXFI / Out of your head / HeSuVi works is that for each speaker in a 7.1 setup, there is a pair of impulse responses - to left ear and to right ear.
Ideally, this impulse response should be a recording of the speaker in actual room playing back an impulse.
Said impulse would be recorded on a dummy head with microphones in ear canals. Or an actual person with microphones in their ears.

An impulse is a real-life approximation of the Dirac delta, a signal that is infinitely loud and infinitely short. In real-life that would be one sample with the maximum value.
In frequency domain, such signal has a flat frequency response up to a point determined by how loud and short it is.

So if you record an impulse after it passes through a system (in this case a DAC -> amplifier -> speaker -> room -> outer ear -> ear canal -> microphone), you get the complete time and frequency domain changes that the system as a whole introduces.
(Note that it doesn't capture dynamic, non-linear behavior such as harmonic distortion or compression. But no room should have those to the best of my knowledge).
So in the case SXFI the recorded impulse from let's say a front left speaker would include speaker frequency response, reverbations, changes to sound caused by ear shape and so on.

You do that for all speakers in a setup to essentially gain full knowledge of how this complete speaker setup would sound to a dummy head. The more that head resembles yours, the better is the effect when translating to your experience.

You can then apply the impulse response to your playback chain by the means of convolution operation.
This adds all of the above mentioned effects to the sound of your headphones.

This is where the problems start.
I presume that Creative recorded the in-room impulse responses for many individuals.
The pictures that you send to their server are scanned by a machine learning algorithm to determine the frequency response that you would get if you were in that room.
Then the impulse response of each speaker to each ear is calculated based on the result.

Then, this has to be played back through your headphones.
Creative don't know the frequency response of your headphones, so they have to assume a certain frequency response of your headphones so the effect works.
They provide some EQ profiles in the SXFI app which target few models but unit variations or the differences in your head shape and fit vs what they measured on will cause differences so it's never 100% right.


I'll share the differences between Gen2 and Gen3 Front Left to left ear frequency response later.
Subjectively, it's a somewhat smaller room sensation but more natural sound.

Based on what I see I can guess that either:
- they changed how the machine learning algorithm calculates the impulse responses, making it more accurate.
- they changed their reference speaker setup and made new impulse response recordings.

To get Gen3, get another set of ear and head pictures. Now it should show Gen3 next to them.


----------



## Viggen66

Installed the SXFI App again, did the head mapping, and it appeared gen3, I guess it has only to do with the scanning of your head this new gen3, probably a new algorithm to your personal profile.


----------



## roladyzator

Viggen66 said:


> Installed the SXFI App again, did the head mapping, and it appeared gen3, I guess it has only to do with the scanning of your head this new gen3, probably a new algorithm to your personal profile.


Let me know if you like it more than Gen2.

I don't have my measurements from Gen2 anymore but I can share the frequency response from the Front Left speaker to the left ear for my Gen3 profile.

I measured GC7 with SXFI in the following scenarios:
1. With HD650 profile.
2. With K701 profile (K702 is K701 in black with removable cable).
3. With Emu Teak profile.
4. With Unknown Headphone profile.

Then I added the measurements of each respective headphone (from Oratory1990's website or Crinacle's for Emu Teak). For Unknown Headphone profile, I added the AKG K371's measurements as it's a good representation of the Harman Target.

I also included Harman Target in the graph for reference.
After all, HT is supposed to represent the sound as recorded by a dummy head, from a loudspeaker in a treated troom at 30 deg. angle IIRC.

Provided two graphs with varying degrees of smoothing.

So the end result (for my profile) for the headphones which have their SXFI profiles kinda looks like the Harman curve, but with reduced mid-bass to low-mid region and the lower treble being good few dBs higher than the Harman Target. Then there is a treble drop around 8-10k and an increase at the end of the hearing range.
From the headphones in the graph, K701 seems to have the smoothest upper treble response and I personally think it sounds best (even before I measured this).

The K371, which doesn't have their own profile, end up having similar resulting frequency response with SXFI to the other headphones. With the exception of bass, which is increased a lot in the sub region.

A conclusion I can draw from this is that if your headphones don't have a profile in SXFI App, equalising them to the Harman Target with a bit less bass could make them sound as intended with SXFI. Personally, I also like to reduce the 2 and 4 kHz sliders in Creative app's EQ to reduce the shoutiness when listening to music. You can also add few dBs in the 250 Hz slider for extra warmth.


----------



## Viggen66

My understanding of the sxfi, is that creative servers based on your head mapping, creates a personal algorithm which has to be uploaded to the sbxfi chip, very clever because you can change completely the surround effects, if the sbxfi has power enough and it has enought memory to be flashed, so is not a final product, which can be improved over and over. 

The sbxfi app now works better, doesn't crash or forces close when doing the scanning of the new head mapping, or probably just got lucky.


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 16, 2021)

Viggen66 said:


> My understanding of the sxfi, is that creative servers based on your head mapping, creates a personal algorithm which has to be uploaded to the sbxfi chip, very clever because you can change completely the surround effects, if the sbxfi has power enough and it has enought memory to be flashed, so is not a final product, which can be improved over and over.
> 
> The sbxfi app now works better, doesn't crash or forces close when doing the scanning of the new head mapping, or probably just got lucky.


You're right,  that's what happens in an overview.  Likely the SXFI dsp does convolution with impulse responses that you download from your online profile to the device. Just guessing

Because of that, they can keep improving it like you wrote.

I wish they would offer some kind of calibration options to fine tune the effect and correct the machine learning guesswork. Who knows, maybe we'll see Gen4

There is a market for that, even Sean Olive mentioned Harman may be working on Speaker virtualization tech for headphones in a recent interview with headphones.com on YT. The future is bright That is if I remember correctly.


----------



## Viggen66

roladyzator said:


> You're right,  that's what happens in an overview.  Likely the SXFI dsp does convolution with impulse responses that you download from your online profile to the device. Just guessing
> 
> Because of that, they can keep improving it like you wrote.
> 
> ...



Probably the sxfi chip is just an arm cpu, owing to today's standards, with relative processing power and multi core capabilities, if it doesn't run a complete operating system in top like Android or similar, it has lots of  power to process the dsp effects.


----------



## illram

Viggen66 said:


> Probably the sxfi chip is just an arm cpu, owing to today's standards, with relative processing power and multi core capabilities, if it doesn't run a complete operating system in top like Android or similar, it has lots of  power to process the dsp effects.


There is no separate ARM (or other CPU) in any SXFI device as far as I know. All it's doing is playing preset convolution and equalization that you downloaded to it from a PC or phone. You could record the same convolution manually. (Which is why it is frustrating that they try to lock in SXFI playback to their devices).


----------



## Hemlocke

Damn, looks like I’m back on the hunt for a new console gaming headset. It just sounds like the Penrose has too many drawbacks for the price.


----------



## roladyzator

illram said:


> There is no separate ARM (or other CPU) in any SXFI device as far as I know. All it's doing is playing preset convolution and equalization that you downloaded to it from a PC or phone. You could record the same convolution manually. (Which is why it is frustrating that they try to lock in SXFI playback to their devices).


I think you're right.
I'm actually thinking of uploading the default and my preset to HeSuVi once Creative fixes the 7.1 issues.


----------



## Viggen66

roladyzator said:


> Let me know if you like it more than Gen2.



HI there. Already tried gen3, is just an insane surround, yes I like better than gen2, looks like I'm playing a game in a theater, I always play games with dolby digital 5.1 output from the console, gc7 just decodes it and sxfi gives this crazy surround, just a huge upgrade from the g6 for me. 

By far this the best dac for gaming.


----------



## illram

roladyzator said:


> I think you're right.
> I'm actually thinking of uploading the default and my preset to HeSuVi once Creative fixes the 7.1 issues.


Let me know how that goes, I'd love to hear how you do it if you don't mind. I tried it with Audacity following the Sourceforge tutorial, but couldn't get it to record all the channels correctly for some reason. I'm sure its possible but I am unfamiliar with the tools so I just gave up.


----------



## roladyzator

Viggen66 said:


> HI there. Already tried gen3, is just an insane surround, yes I like better than gen2, looks like I'm playing a game in a theater, I always play games with dolby digital 5.1 output from the console, gc7 just decodes it and sxfi gives this crazy surround, just a huge upgrade from the g6 for me.
> 
> By far this the best dac for gaming.


Awesome, really glad you like it
I saw no announcement of Gen3 really, which surprised me as it is an improvement to me too.

Did some more experimentation with SXFI today.
Adding 2-3 dB to 8-16kHz and reducing 2-4 kHz by 1-2 dB makes the sound more pleasant to my ears, on K371 (Unknown headphone profile) and K702 (K701 profile).
Adding 1-2 on the Bass knob makes K702 really bassy, but with very clean bass at the same time. Fantastic!

And the KSC75 sounds fine with SXFI with just 3-4 bass setting. No need to correct the upper mids and treble.
They are very bright to being with, with a lot of energy in the topmost octave so I guess it balances out the dip that SXFI puts there.


----------



## Viggen66

roladyzator said:


> Awesome, really glad you like it
> I saw no announcement of Gen3 really, which surprised me as it is an improvement to me too.
> 
> Did some more experimentation with SXFI today.
> ...



I have never seen just a profound surround effect as this new gen3, really the cherry of the cake, for a huge sound upgrade for consoles and general gaming.


----------



## roladyzator

As promised I provide some more Fr captures from SXFI.

Both images use 1/24th octave smoothing for readability.

First image is Gen3 vs Gen2.
Gen2 clearly has more energy above 10k, but a bigger dip at 9k, and that wasn't very nice to listen to.

Second image is the Unknown Headphone profile vs Unknown In-Ear.
The Unknown In-Ear may be a better fit for headphones with a lot of sub-bass, as it doesn't amplify it that much.
There is also less of a peak at 700 Hz and less overall treble, but that could be easily compensated for.

Looks like the IEM profile might be good for K371, must do some play tests now


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 17, 2021)

I was wrong,  I was not able to use K371 with Unknown In-Ear profile and compensate for the reduced high treble using the GC7 on-board equalizer. Instead, I preferred the Unknown Headphone profile with -3 dB at 31 Hz. Still a lot of sub-bass though.

If anyone else is interested in their FR graph for the GC7 with SXFI, you can basically connect Headphone out to Line In and use Room EQ Wizard. I used low gain and full volume and it didn't clip using the default settings in REW (measurement sweep at -12 dBFS). Keep in mind to disable line in monitoring, because it would then create a nasty feedback loop.

The line in itself is decent, has 110 dB SNR and flat frequency response (it's what it showed when I used RMAA with Shanling M0 which had even better SNR and flat FR) and up to about 2.5 V RMS for the line in.


----------



## ronfifer

Anyone tried the new HE400se for competitive FPS? Is it worth the upgrade from the HE4XX? If you own both that would be an awesome feedback.


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> Anyone tried the new HE400se for competitive FPS? Is it worth the upgrade from the HE4XX? If you own both that would be an awesome feedback.


----------



## Dsbrego41

Chastity said:


>


Do you happen to have a Redscape EQ for Warzone or FPS games? Just got the software as a present and should be getting tracker tomorrow. Looking forward to giving it a go


----------



## Chastity

Dsbrego41 said:


> Do you happen to have a Redscape EQ for Warzone or FPS games? Just got the software as a present and should be getting tracker tomorrow. Looking forward to giving it a go


I don't use EQ settings in Redscape, as I use EQ APO to tune my planars.  I did adjust the head size settings to improve the timings to better match my noggin.


----------



## Viggen66

Has anyone here tried new firmware for GC7 release today?


----------



## Monsterzero (Dec 20, 2021)

*HELP PLEASE*

Used the search function to no avail, so forgive me if this has already been covered before.

I just got a PS5 (finally!) and I want to continue to use my Astro Mixamp Pro 2013 setup from my PS4. I bi-amp the Astro with a Magni 2 and use K701 for FPSers and X1 for single player. Mic is Modmic.

How can I connect the Astro to the PS5 since there isnt an optical on PS5?

EDIT: Everything is connected to a 7.1 surround so I'd prefer to not wire it directly to TV.


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Monsterzero said:


> *HELP PLEASE*
> 
> Used the search function to no avail, so forgive me if this has already been covered before.
> 
> ...


Need a UAC1 device like the Creative G6 to act as a converter from USB to TOSLINK, or buy a HDMI audio extractor (Astro sells one I believe) though you'll lose any HDMI 2.1 features with that one (and most others if not all of them)


----------



## ronfifer

anyone willing to try the new Hifiman Edition XS for gaming?


----------



## Monsterzero

NiGHTS4EVA said:


> Need a UAC1 device like the Creative G6 to act as a converter from USB to TOSLINK, or buy a HDMI audio extractor (Astro sells one I believe) though you'll lose any HDMI 2.1 features with that one (and most others if not all of them)


Thanks for the reply, yeah I have been researching all day. I certainly do not want to nerf the graphics by going 2.0, so it looks like I might have to plunk down $ for something new.

Would you suggest the G6 over the GC7?


----------



## NiGHTS4EVA

Monsterzero said:


> Thanks for the reply, yeah I have been researching all day. I certainly do not want to nerf the graphics by going 2.0, so it looks like I might have to plunk down $ for something new.
> 
> Would you suggest the G6 over the GC7?


Others would have to answer that for you, I've only seen the GC7, haven't had any meaningful time with it. Mind you a G6 I believe would be mimicking many of the functions your mixamp does so it’d be kind of redundant to own both :-/ If you're not rocking a TV with HDMI 2.1 then you might be better off springing for the adapter for now and once you upgrade your screen later down the line see what's available then.


----------



## NewCoke

There's a HDMI 2.1 Audio Extractor and Switch available on the market now, but it's price is not for the faint of heart.


https://hdfury.com/product/8k-vrroom-40gbps/


----------



## Viggen66

NewCoke said:


> There's a HDMI 2.1 Audio Extractor and Switch available on the market now, but it's price is not for the faint of heart.
> 
> 
> https://hdfury.com/product/8k-vrroom-40gbps/


One of the reasons I haven't found yet an audio extractor for hdmi 2.1 was the price, no is brave enough to buy these units and try to sell them, the price is ridiculous


----------



## darky_mtp

Viggen66 said:


> Has anyone here tried new firmware for GC7 release today?


Yes.
Acoustic engine surround is fixed.
Very good in games.


----------



## Viggen66

I'm on vacation can't test it yet, that's good news just hope dolby digital decoding doesn't get affected with this new update, because if I'm not mistaken is the same chip that does both tasks, acoustic and dolby digital


----------



## xeroborn (Dec 23, 2021)

Hey all, been reading this thread for a while now. Decided to pick up a GC7, just got it yesterday and have been pretty impressed with the SXFI in Halo Infinite campaign and Days Gone. I've been using Dan Clark Aeon Closed RT with Peace EQ per Roladyzator's suggestions on the previous page. It sounds nice and crisp with good imaging.

I also tried a Sennheiser 560S borrowed from my brother, again with EQ per Roladyzator's suggestions. I could never get it to resolve clearly in sxfi mode however, certainly not to the degree the Aeon Closed planar does. The Sennheiser sounds grainy for lack of a better descriptor.

Not sure if my issue with the 560S is that all my headphones are planars. Maybe i just need to adjust to dynamics. I'm assuming some of you use SXFI with dynamics and it sounds good?

I'm curious what the difference is when using an officially supported (ie. it has a profile in the sxfi app) headphone though. Does anyone have a suggestion of one that sounds good with SXFI? My list is currently the K702, X2HR, DT 880, or HE400i. Any thoughts? i would prefer if this pair of headphones would work well for music listening as well as gaming.


----------



## Thiago Guedes

Hi folks,

I understand there are compromises to go wireless - but do we have any reasonably good option for PS5? I tried the Artics 7p and just found it horrible, claustrophobic. 

Tried running my X2HR from the controller 3.55 jack, but it's lacking as hell - even though it should be pretty easy to drive it sounds thin and boring. 

Best option would probably be running a G6 or GC7 from TV optical (it's a similar setup I had in the PS4 with the DSS) but then it's back to wires. 

Best,


----------



## Chastity

Thiago Guedes said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> I understand there are compromises to go wireless - but do we have any reasonably good option for PS5? I tried the Artics 7p and just found it horrible, claustrophobic.
> 
> ...


Given any thought to using TWS buds?


----------



## Thiago Guedes

Chastity said:


> Given any thought to using TWS buds?


They get uncomfortable after some time. Not really sure it would work. 
Other than the Artics, there's the HyperX Flight S or the Astros. But the audio quality you get for the price it's just hard to justify.  Any good cans a third of the price would sound way better, but without the convenience.


----------



## roladyzator (Dec 24, 2021)

xeroborn said:


> Hey all, been reading this thread for a while now. Decided to pick up a GC7, just got it yesterday and have been pretty impressed with the SXFI in Halo Infinite campaign and Days Gone. I've been using Dan Clark Aeon Closed RT with Peace EQ per Roladyzator's suggestions on the previous page. It sounds nice and crisp with good imaging.
> 
> I also tried a Sennheiser 560S borrowed from my brother, again with EQ per Roladyzator's suggestions. I could never get it to resolve clearly in sxfi mode however, certainly not to the degree the Aeon Closed planar does. The Sennheiser sounds grainy for lack of a better descriptor.
> 
> ...


Funny that you mention HD560S as I was discussing with a reddit user that he could not get his HD560S to sound right with SXFI. Though the user was concerned with frequency response being wrong while the surround effect was good.

Never heard any planar with SXFI. K702 with K701 sounds good to me after increasing 8 kHz and reducing 4 kHz using the in app EQ. K371 with Unknown Headphones profile require a cut in 31 Hz in addition to the above.  Koss KSC75 surprisingly sounds good with UH profile after just adding 3 on the bass setting.

They all image differently using SXFI. K702 and KSC75 have somewhat diffuse soundstage for music and that gets exaggerated with SXFI. Everything is big and enveloping the listener.
K371 are very precise and for music I found their soundstage really good. Electronic tracks from Solar Fields or Shpongle are presented with excellent layering and depth. But with rock music they sound rather direct and close to your head, while K702 and to a lesser extent KSC75 seem to add some distance between you and the sound.

With SXFi and K371 the room sensation very precise and the same time I feel the acoustic space is smaller than KSC75 and K702. It's like the "sound bubble" surrounding you had a clear edge at the end with K371 while on K702 or KSC75 it would kind of disappear gradually.

From my other headphones,  the Superlux HD681 Evo don't work well with SXFI and Superlux HD-668B are good. Would have to do some tests to compare as I haven't used them in some time now. 

This could be some little aspects of each headphones's FR or perhaps psychological effect (open headphone doesn't cut me off from the room so I am more easily fooled that there is sound outside my head).

I don't think driver type or the price can be a predictor of SXFI effect quality,  we just have to do trial and error I guess. Good to know the Aeon Closed are good


----------



## Chastity

Thiago Guedes said:


> They get uncomfortable after some time. Not really sure it would work.
> Other than the Artics, there's the HyperX Flight S or the Astros. But the audio quality you get for the price it's just hard to justify.  Any good cans a third of the price would sound way better, but without the convenience.


If wired was ok, I would suggest the Mackie MC250/350/450 line.  (closed/semi/open)  About $100 but they perform better than that price point.  Bass can rival some planars.


----------



## p1zzap1e (Dec 27, 2021)

After a long debate with my self I went for a pair of fostex t50rp. Are going to try to modd them to be as good of a gaming-focused headphone as possible. Cant wait


----------



## duranxv

Anyone else notice that Redscape tends to hog up system resources?  Seems to use quite a bit of memory.  I don't think any of the other VSS solutions have such a large footprint


----------



## Chastity (Dec 28, 2021)

duranxv said:


> Anyone else notice that Redscape tends to hog up system resources?  Seems to use quite a bit of memory.  I don't think any of the other VSS solutions have such a large footprint


Then drop an email to the author, he responds timely.  Showing 282MB used.  I'll assume a lot of it is buffer.


----------



## Jcue (Dec 28, 2021)

So im kind of disappointed. I got my GC7 and pc38x headset. I know some of you guys have way better setups, but this is my first dive into a better audio setup then onboard audio. And I'm not disappointed with my setup, it's amazing, but I've been playing call of duty vanguard, and it sounds trash. The game just sounds bad. I can't even really describe it. I know it's a different genre, but it's sad when farming Sim 22 sounds better then a game a way higher budget. I've tested a few more games, and they sound great.

Edit: I should clarify. Now that I'm hearing all of the detail it just doesn't sound good. when I plugged the headset into the motherboard it still sounded bad, like the audio quality was not as good. But with my upgraded setup its like extremely noticeable how bad it is.


----------



## Viggen66

Does anyone here knows of a good Bluetooth transmitor for gc7, it has to have good analog transmission through 3.5mm, I have one which works wonders on optic, but analog has issues, like it mutes the sound, as I request inummerois times for creative to enable optic out to sxfi and until now no success.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 28, 2021)

Trying to find the time to write up a Koss KPH40 review.

In other news, just want a darn displayport to HDMI 2.1 4K/120hz dongle for my LG C9 Oled. Unfortunately it's the one year where 4K/120 works, but not with HDMI 2.0 devices like a 2080ti. The CX and C1 have 4:2:0 modes that would work with the 2080ti. Just my luck. I love my TV but damn I'm sad I picked the year before I should've to go OLED. Bought two different dongles, and neither function all too well. They overheat and stop working.

We'll, I'd be fine with a new graphics card, but GOOOOOOOD LUCK trying to find one these days. I'd take a 3070ti...at least.


----------



## revolutionz

Well, my B&W P7's are dying...the right ear has developed a crackling like a bad driver.  I emailed B&W support, and they told me they only replace headphones under warranty, they don't repair any headphones.  So, that's annoying to have to trash a $400 pair of headphones.

That being said, I'm looking for a new pair now for gaming.  I used the P7's with a modmic and thats been working well.  For my source I use a Burson Conductor 3R with DTS:X vss plugin.  I need them to be closed back unfortunately, so open back options are out.

I've been looking at the Beyer DT770 or DT1770's as options, another set of P7 off of ebay or something but am open to other good options that have a decent soundstage and great imaging as I play 95% FPS.  I will occasionally use them for music also, but I have a set of Focal Elegia's that I use for music so music isn't a high priority for these.

I'd say my budget tops out around $500-$600ish, slightly more maybe if it was a great deal on some higher end cans.

Let's hear some ideas!


----------



## Chastity

revolutionz said:


> Well, my B&W P7's are dying...the right ear has developed a crackling like a bad driver.  I emailed B&W support, and they told me they only replace headphones under warranty, they don't repair any headphones.  So, that's annoying to have to trash a $400 pair of headphones.
> 
> That being said, I'm looking for a new pair now for gaming.  I used the P7's with a modmic and thats been working well.  For my source I use a Burson Conductor 3R with DTS:X vss plugin.  I need them to be closed back unfortunately, so open back options are out.
> 
> ...


Kennerton Magni / Gjallahorns

On the budget side, Mackie MC250


----------



## PurpleAngel

revolutionz said:


> Well, my B&W P7's are dying...the right ear has developed a crackling like a bad driver.  I emailed B&W support, and they told me they only replace headphones under warranty, they don't repair any headphones.  So, that's annoying to have to trash a $400 pair of headphones.
> 
> That being said, I'm looking for a new pair now for gaming.  I used the P7's with a modmic and thats been working well.  For my source I use a Burson Conductor 3R with DTS:X vss plugin.  I need them to be closed back unfortunately, so open back options are out.
> 
> ...



Takstar HF 580 planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads, way under your budget.
https://www.amazon.com/TAKSTAR-Headphones-Noise-Cancelling-Cellphone-HF580/dp/B08CKJM4FN
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000714597987.html


----------



## AudioManNewb

revolutionz said:


> Well, my B&W P7's are dying...the right ear has developed a crackling like a bad driver.  I emailed B&W support, and they told me they only replace headphones under warranty, they don't repair any headphones.  So, that's annoying to have to trash a $400 pair of headphones.
> 
> That being said, I'm looking for a new pair now for gaming.  I used the P7's with a modmic and thats been working well.  For my source I use a Burson Conductor 3R with DTS:X vss plugin.  I need them to be closed back unfortunately, so open back options are out.
> 
> ...


Why do you not use the Focal Elegia?


----------



## Trancefreak

Hijacking the thread for a quick question: I'm switching from a Creative G6 to a HEL2 because I strongly dislike creative's software.
Now, to soften the blow a bit, I'm selling my G6 locally ( Belgium ).
What would be a decent price? I've had no takers at €100, and at €75 someone offered me €60. Yet, on eBay I find second hard prices going from €100 all the way up to €230!
It's 7 months old, complete with warranty, all papers, all cables, barely used ( it was a backup ) in box.

What would you say is a fair price in this day and age?


----------



## revolutionz

AudioManNewb said:


> Why do you not use the Focal Elegia?



While they are great for music, I don't feel like they are quite right for gaming...the more "fun" v-shape of the P7s seems better for that task. Also, I use my elegias mostly at my work desk, so I'd rather have a 2nd pair so I'm not moving them back and forth. A bonus is having another set of cans to switch it up from when I want a change from the elegias.


----------



## Chastity

Trancefreak said:


> Hijacking the thread for a quick question: I'm switching from a Creative G6 to a HEL2 because I strongly dislike creative's software.
> Now, to soften the blow a bit, I'm selling my G6 locally ( Belgium ).
> What would be a decent price? I've had no takers at €100, and at €75 someone offered me €60. Yet, on eBay I find second hard prices going from €100 all the way up to €230!
> It's 7 months old, complete with warranty, all papers, all cables, barely used ( it was a backup ) in box.
> ...


Creative sells the refurbs for about 80-90


----------



## Viggen66

Only think I wish for gc7 is to sxfi being output to optic the rest I like this dac


----------



## Viggen66

A complete disassembly and zoom or the GC7 PCB,


----------



## JdeFalconr (Dec 29, 2021)

I'm looking to replace my Arctis Pro Wireless and be able to use any pair of headphones - and hopefully a very nice pair at that. The key capability I need to replace is mixing game and chat audio and doing it on the fly with dedicated hardware controls. I do have a PC sound card already (SB Z SE).

I know things like the Astro Mixamp TR or Sennheiser GSX 1000 will do it but am I correct in assuming I can accomplish the same for cheaper or with higher quality? Seems like a simple feature to spend $100-200 on when all I really want is a physical knob to turn.

EDIT: Is this just a matter of finding a USB DAC that presents two devices to Windows, one for communications and one for non-comms audio? I know that's how things like my Arctis Pro Wireless and the aforementioned Astro Mixamp do it. If so what's the key term I search for to identify these devices from a huge sea of others?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Perks of the job 👀


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Perks of the job


FLEX!!  💪


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 29, 2021)

Chastity said:


> FLEX!!  💪


Shhhh. 

 The LCD-5 sounds really like utter quality, and is obviously better, but I like the easygoing nature of the 2C. Maybe I just like darker headphones in general.


----------



## Jcue (Dec 29, 2021)

JdeFalconr said:


> I'm looking to replace my Arctis Pro Wireless and be able to use any pair of headphones - and hopefully a very nice pair at that. The key capability I need to replace is mixing game and chat audio and doing it on the fly with dedicated hardware controls. I do have a PC sound card already (SB Z SE).
> 
> I know things like the Astro Mixamp TR or Sennheiser GSX 1000 will do it but am I correct in assuming I can accomplish the same for cheaper or with higher quality? Seems like a simple feature to spend $100-200 on when all I really want is a physical knob to turn.
> 
> EDIT: Is this just a matter of finding a USB DAC that presents two devices to Windows, one for communications and one for non-comms audio? I know that's how things like my Arctis Pro Wireless and the aforementioned Astro Mixamp do it. If so what's the key term I search for to identify these devices from a huge sea of others?


I'm kind of new here so take what I say with a grain of salt, but there is the Sound Blaster G3. it is small and cheaper, I guess still has some features. its cable is short though. I have no idea how it sounds though.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Jcue said:


> I'm kind of new here so take what I say with a grain of salt, but there is the Sound Blaster G3. it is small and cheaper, I guess still has some features. its cable is short though. I have no idea how it sounds though.


Thank you! I very much appreciate the reply. After some thought and considerable research I've realized that the chat mix feature I'm after is a very odd duck indeed outside of gaming products and that any actual mixer, DAC or audio interface I purchased that would do the same would include a considerable amount I don't need. As such I'm focusing now at "gaming" DACs. The ones I'm narrowing it down to at present:

* EPOS/Sennheiser GSX 1000
* SteelSeries GameDAC
* Sound Blaster X4

Unless I'm missing something the SB X4 seems to be the most powerful in terms of driving headphones, compatibility with various levels of impendence, and in terms of features, not to mention the price point is relatively attractive. If anyone is able to help validate my exceptionally-amateur analysis that would be quite helpful.


----------



## Viggen66

Any of you knows of a good analog bluetooth transmitter?


----------



## Viggen66

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you! I very much appreciate the reply. After some thought and considerable research I've realized that the chat mix feature I'm after is a very odd duck indeed outside of gaming products and that any actual mixer, DAC or audio interface I purchased that would do the same would include a considerable amount I don't need. As such I'm focusing now at "gaming" DACs. The ones I'm narrowing it down to at present:
> 
> * EPOS/Sennheiser GSX 1000
> * SteelSeries GameDAC
> ...



For console gaming, would ditch Sennheiser GSX 1000, the other two seems to be compatible with consoles, even though the X4 doesn't do acoustic effects, because it doesn't bring the DSP chip.

For your aim is pc gaming, some say surround effects from GSX 1000 are very good.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 30, 2021)

Viggen66 said:


> Any of you knows of a good analog bluetooth transmitter?


Probably any of those cheap Amazon ones would work well. Just get one with Apt-X LL (as long as your Headset supports Apt-X LL). And one with more inputs than just Aux. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Wireless-Headphone/dp/B0838YPSZT/

Without Apt-X LL, BT is currently too slow and delayed.

There are cheaper ones that are just analog. But I question using analog inputs on cheap devices, and you're adding an unnecessary an ADC (analog to digital conversion) step. Digital will just let it stay as is until your headset converts it to analog.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Viggen66 said:


> For console gaming, would ditch Sennheiser GSX 1000, the other two seems to be compatible with consoles, even though the X4 doesn't do acoustic effects, because it doesn't bring the DSP chip.
> 
> For your aim is pc gaming, some say surround effects from GSX 1000 are very good.


Thanks! I actually run my console audio through my PC via optical in so everything comes out the PC in the end. Can you tell me what you mean by acoustic effects? And are you sure it doesn't have a DSP? It does seem to have their Super X-Fi gadget onboard.


----------



## Viggen66

Already found the solution of sxfi through optic out, I have a g6 lying around with no use, so I output the sxfi through the 3
5 mm to the line in of the g6, it converts the analog to digital, the g6 has good dac chips, and it outputs through the optic out, with the added bonus of having an available equalizer to the g6, to add the bass I like for the sxfi, and then to my Bluetooth transmitor, for digital transmission all those cheap Amazon devices have good performance, problem is receiving analog sound and converting, finally I have sxfi digital, I highly doubt there's a better solution that this one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I probably wouldn't do all that as you're adding several ADC and DAC processes. The less conversions the better. The purpose of utilizing the G6 optical out was to have kept the info digitally from the beginning to a better DAC. With your steps, you've already done the DAC process earlier, so you're not getting any benefit really.


----------



## Chastity

Viggen66 said:


> Already found the solution of sxfi through optic out, I have a g6 lying around with no use, so I output the sxfi through the 3
> 5 mm to the line in of the g6, it converts the analog to digital, the g6 has good dac chips, and it outputs through the optic out, with the added bonus of having an available equalizer to the g6, to add the bass I like for the sxfi, and then to my Bluetooth transmitor, for digital transmission all those cheap Amazon devices have good performance, problem is receiving analog sound and converting, finally I have sxfi digital, I highly doubt there's a better solution that this one.


🤦‍♀️ uhm.... no


----------



## Viggen66

At least I have digital sxfi, the ridiculous of creative not enabling it makes no sense


----------



## Viggen66

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I probably wouldn't do all that as you're adding several ADC and DAC processes. The less conversions the better. The purpose of utilizing the G6 optical out was to have kept the info digitally from the beginning to a better DAC. With your steps, you've already done the DAC process earlier, so you're not getting any benefit really.



The g6 is on direct mode, is an excellent analog to digital converter, I don't notice any delay in the sound


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

What I mean is that the SXFI amp already did the DAC conversion. Going ADC to then do another DAC conversion is not yielding any benefit. Think of it like trying to set an MP3 back to FLAC. No benefit, as it's already been processed down.


----------



## Viggen66

Mad Lust Envy said:


> What I mean is that the SXFI amp already did the DAC conversion. Going ADC to then do another DAC conversion is not yielding any benefit. Think of it like trying to set an MP3 back to FLAC. No benefit, as it's already been processed down.


Issue is that with my Bluetooth transmitter with analog in, the sound is rubbish, in digital is perfect, so the benefit is having excellent quality Bluetooth transmition


----------



## JdeFalconr (Dec 30, 2021)

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you! I very much appreciate the reply. After some thought and considerable research I've realized that the chat mix feature I'm after is a very odd duck indeed outside of gaming products and that any actual mixer, DAC or audio interface I purchased that would do the same would include a considerable amount I don't need. As such I'm focusing now at "gaming" DACs. The ones I'm narrowing it down to at present:
> 
> * EPOS/Sennheiser GSX 1000
> * SteelSeries GameDAC
> ...



So besides the question of which device to get (I'm still leaning towards the SB X4 over the GSX 1000) I need some help narrowing down the headphones, please. I very much appreciate the list provided at the start of this post to begin narrowing down what feels like an ocean of them, so big thanks to @Mad Lust Envy for the help there.

From there I still feel like I could use some help further refining things. I'm looking for headphones in the $150-300 range that strike a good balance between competitive clarity/positioning and fun, perhaps leaning ever-so-slightly towards the latter as I play things besides just shooters. Based on the ratings (Yes I saw the warning about comparisons, I can't help but use them as an initial metric!) it would seem the Fidelio X2, Sennheiser 6XX or Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250ohm look like good starting spots but I'm absolutely open to suggestions. I like immersiveness so I was looking at closed-back headphones though I'm happy to entertain other ideas.

Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## Chastity (Dec 30, 2021)

Another headphone to consider are the Mackie MC250 (closed) MC350 (closed pro) or MC450 (open pro)  They run about $100 and perform well above their price point.  And they are easy to drive so they run on anything.  Plus I understand the bass on them is almost planar level.  (MC-350 / 450 are pro monitoring cans with leather and go for $150-200)


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Another headphone to consider are the Mackie MC250 (closed) MC350 (closed pro) or MC450 (open pro)  They run about $100 and perform well above their price point.  And they are easy to drive so they run on anything.  Plus I understand the bass on them is almost planar level.  (MC-350 / 450 are pro monitoring cans with leather and go for $150-200)


Interesting, thank you! I appreciate the recommendation. Can you tell me more about how they work for gaming? Reviews I've read indicate the MC-350, at least, are extremely precise, detailed reference headphones. I'm not quite sure how that translates into gaming as while I know detail is important I understand soundstage and placement are equally of value.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Interesting, thank you! I appreciate the recommendation. Can you tell me more about how they work for gaming? Reviews I've read indicate the MC-350, at least, are extremely precise, detailed reference headphones. I'm not quite sure how that translates into gaming as while I know detail is important I understand soundstage and placement are equally of value.


They image well, have a natural soundstage, as opposed to HD-600 claustrophobia.  Similar in performance to DT-1990 in these respects.


----------



## AxelCloris

Happy New Years everyone! What games are we playing to ring in the new year? I'll be relaxing with some Kena: Bridge of Spirits tonight.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'm either gonna continue on Yakuza: Like a Dragon, or start Doom Eternal.

Happy new year's everyone!


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 1, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> So besides the question of which device to get (I'm still leaning towards the SB X4 over the GSX 1000) I need some help narrowing down the headphones, please. I very much appreciate the list provided at the start of this post to begin narrowing down what feels like an ocean of them, so big thanks to @Mad Lust Envy for the help there.
> 
> From there I still feel like I could use some help further refining things. I'm looking for headphones in the $150-300 range that strike a good balance between competitive clarity/positioning and fun, perhaps leaning ever-so-slightly towards the latter as I play things besides just shooters. Based on the ratings (Yes I saw the warning about comparisons, I can't help but use them as an initial metric!) it would seem the Fidelio X2, Sennheiser 6XX or Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250ohm look like good starting spots but I'm absolutely open to suggestions. I like immersiveness so I was looking at closed-back headphones though I'm happy to entertain other ideas.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.


Hi Folks, I'm still noodling over the potential choice of headphones to go with that SB X4 and I wanted to ask: From the prospective headphones I'm looking at now (DT990 Premium 250, Sennheiser 6XX, Fidelio X2) would there be a stellar leap in quality gained from going up to the $300-400 price level? Or would my better bet be to stay in the $150-300 range? I know Chastity kindly gave a recommendation for the Mackie 250/350, if anyone else also has suggestions to offer on my prospective picks or others then I'd sure appreciate the advice. With the huge variety of higher-end headphones out there I'll take as much experienced advice as I can get. 

One addendum - A key reason why I'm moving to this setup (discrete amp + nice headphones) is that for the headphones I want to purchase from a company that will stand by their product for years, or at the very least buy something I can have repaired reasonably easily. I'm moving on from Steelseries simply because they don't do out-of-warranty repair and I now have to replace my $320 Arctis Pro Wireless (I'd rather not eBay a new headset that already has mileage on it).


----------



## Chastity

Monoprice Monolith M1070C are still on sale for $299, 5 yr warranty, closed planars  (I have the open version)  Think of these as Audeze LCD-2C clones but without glued earcups.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 2, 2022)

Chastity said:


> Monoprice Monolith M1070C are still on sale for $299, 5 yr warranty, closed planars  (I have the open version)  Think of these as Audeze LCD-2C clones but without glued earcups.


Thanks, looks like the sale has ended. Yeah those look like pretty blatant clones.

I was looking hard at the AKG K712 Pro's based on the review in the guide; they sound from the description like they'd be just about right. The Amazon link, though, strikes me as fishy: all of the prices - even for new ones - are $150-175 cheaper than AKG's official page ($575) as well as the resellers AKG link to. All of the Amazon sellers look to be out of Japan and are stores that generally have a small number of reviews, albeit mostly good. Does anyone have experience buying these off Amazon? 
EDIT: Looks the same for eBay: similarly priced stuff ($330-ish) is all from Japan.


----------



## Jcor

JdeFalconr said:


> Thanks, looks like the sale has ended. Yeah those look like pretty blatant clones.
> 
> I was looking hard at the AKG K712 Pro's based on the review in the guide; they sound from the description like they'd be just about right. The Amazon link, though, strikes me as fishy: all of the prices - even for new ones - are $150-175 cheaper than AKG's official page ($575) as well as the resellers AKG link to. All of the Amazon sellers look to be out of Japan and are stores that generally have a small number of reviews, albeit mostly good. Does anyone have experience buying these off Amazon?
> EDIT: Looks the same for eBay: similarly priced stuff ($330-ish) is all from Japan.


They are actually still on sale:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43236


----------



## ricardovix

Hey guys! I own an Sennheiser HD 598 and a Sennheiser GSX 1000, which I use exclusively for gaming.

I use this HD 598 for at least 5 years and wanted to try something new, so I bought an Drop Sennheiser PC38X, even knowing that it won’t be a mindblowing upgrade.

Is there any external Soundcard/DAC/AMP that worth the upgrade coming from a GSX 1000 or should I just keep it?

Thanks!


----------



## Viggen66

Gsx1000 for reviews I had read is an excellent dac, it provides a very good surround experience, unless you want to play on consoles I would stick with it


----------



## JdeFalconr

Jcor said:


> They are actually still on sale:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43236


Sweet, thanks! I'll do some research on those to find out more, that's a pretty good sale.

In the meantime while I look into that any thoughts on my prior question about sellers of the K712 Pro's or on the other headphones options I mentioned?


----------



## PurpleAngel

ricardovix said:


> Hey guys! I own an Sennheiser HD 598 and a Sennheiser GSX 1000, which I use exclusively for gaming.
> I use this HD 598 for at least 5 years and wanted to try something new, so I bought an Drop Sennheiser PC38X, even knowing that it won’t be a mindblowing upgrade.
> Is there any external Soundcard/DAC/AMP that worth the upgrade coming from a GSX 1000 or should I just keep it?


My two cents, for gaming, stick with the GSX1000 (but I'm not the gaming expert).


----------



## deanorthk

I'm looking to buy a Audeze LCD GX, it's really my dream headphone for gaming, as I tend to play RPG and story driven games, with music


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Monoprice Monolith M1070C are still on sale for $299, 5 yr warranty, closed planars  (I have the open version)  Think of these as Audeze LCD-2C clones but without glued earcups.


By the way do you recommend the open ones over closed? Or is it a moot point if only the closed are on sale? Also I assume the key difference is that the closed have more bass and better isolation at the cost of a reduced Soundstage?


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Thanks, looks like the sale has ended. Yeah those look like pretty blatant clones.
> 
> I was looking hard at the AKG K712 Pro's based on the review in the guide; they sound from the description like they'd be just about right. The Amazon link, though, strikes me as fishy: all of the prices - even for new ones - are $150-175 cheaper than AKG's official page ($575) as well as the resellers AKG link to. All of the Amazon sellers look to be out of Japan and are stores that generally have a small number of reviews, albeit mostly good. Does anyone have experience buying these off Amazon?
> EDIT: Looks the same for eBay: similarly priced stuff ($330-ish) is all from Japan.


https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=43236

Still on sale for $299


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> By the way do you recommend the open ones over closed? Or is it a moot point if only the closed are on sale? Also I assume the key difference is that the closed have more bass and better isolation at the cost of a reduced Soundstage?


Depends on the closed.  Some don't suffer in loss of soundstage.  They have a 45 day return option if you don't like them, so try them.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 2, 2022)

By the way, does anyone know a good place to try out some of these higher-end headphones in person? I'm trying to avoid ordering a bunch and returning most, I don't like doing that with real expensive stuff. I'm in ZIP 98029 (east of Seattle).



Chastity said:


> Depends on the closed.  Some don't suffer in loss of soundstage.  They have a 45 day return option if you don't like them, so try them.


I'm on the fence to be honest. In reading reviews I'm concerned about their reported weight and huge size. After researching I'm leaning towards open-back for their advantages.

And most of all I'm struggling to compare from others' impressions which headphones  at my price point ($350-ish or less) are good for me. The struggle comes from reading awesome impressions of things in the sub-$200 range like Fidelio X2, AKG 702, DT990 Premium 250, or the HD6XX (which I hear conflicting reports on its suitability for gaming and narrow soundstage but unquestioned quality for general use. My buddy loves his HD600s for gaming).

What I REALLY could use help understanding is whether for my goals (balance of fun and competitive gaming, very slight lean toward fun) there is a quality difference to be had for $300-350 with something like the AKG 712 Pro, M1070, or something else in that range. I don't want to spend money for the sake of doing so but I will spend if it achieves a tangible difference in performance/quality that will last me a good 5-10+ years.

EDIT: by the way I don't want to forget to say thank you for the patient help. I know you @Chastity and others have been very helpful, especially @Mad Lust Envy and this whole guide. I don't want my indecision to sound like I don't value your advice, which is much appreciated. For myself this process is very difficult as I'm trying to make a personal, subjective decision based on others' subjective impressions combined with objective data. The huge variety of choices also complicates it for me.

Once I make a decision I'll look forward to posting back here to contribute my impressions for others.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> By the way, does anyone know a good place to try out some of these higher-end headphones in person? I'm trying to avoid ordering a bunch and returning most, I don't like doing that with real expensive stuff. I'm in ZIP 98029 (east of Seattle).
> 
> 
> I'm on the fence to be honest. In reading reviews I'm concerned about their reported weight and huge size. After researching I'm leaning towards open-back for their advantages.
> ...


My issue with the Senns HD6xx series (I have the HD-580) is the imaging.  I will get cues in game that sound like they are coming from the floor, when they're suppose to be far left / right.  Otherwise they're fine, but I also consider Sennheisers HD6xx series to be the sandtraps in the audio landscape.  There are better.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> My issue with the Senns HD6xx series (I have the HD-580) is the imaging.  I will get cues in game that sound like they are coming from the floor, when they're suppose to be far left / right.  Otherwise they're fine, but I also consider Sennheisers HD6xx series to be the sandtraps in the audio landscape.  There are better.


Yeah I keep reading that: very good but flawed for gaming comparatively. 

Any thoughts on the others I've mentioned?


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Yeah I keep reading that: very good but flawed for gaming comparatively.
> 
> Any thoughts on the others I've mentioned?


Forget the Fidelio, AKG or DT-990... anything in that price range you can do the HE-400se (planars) or the Mackie MC-350 (closed) or 450 (open), and the Mackies will drive on anything.

For the $300-400 segment, you have the Monoliths M1070 ($299 on sale, the M1070C are still on sale atm), the M1570 are $399 on sale (wholly recommend these, they are my current go-to), not a fan of the Sundara as I find them too chill to listen to.  The ATH-R70X is a possibility at $349.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

deanorthk said:


> I'm looking to buy a Audeze LCD GX, it's really my dream headphone for gaming, as I tend to play RPG and story driven games, with music


The GX is a great, versatile set. Yes, I work for Audeze, but I recommended it long before that. It's a solid banger even if it was just a headphone. If you got the dough, the GX ain't gonna let you down.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Forget the Fidelio, AKG or DT-990... anything in that price range you can do the HE-400se (planars) or the Mackie MC-350 (closed) or 450 (open), and the Mackies will drive on anything.
> 
> For the $300-400 segment, you have the Monoliths M1070 ($299 on sale, the M1070C are still on sale atm), the M1570 are $399 on sale (wholly recommend these, they are my current go-to), not a fan of the Sundara as I find them too chill to listen to.  The ATH-R70X is a possibility at $349.


Now look what you've done! I bit the bullet and ordered a cornucopia to try out. I now have pairs of HE-400se, MC-450, DT990 600 Premium on the way, and because you spoke so highly of them (not to mention the $200 off sale) I bit on the M1570's too. I'll make sure to share my findings. God help my credit card. 

Thanks again for your help and advice.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 3, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Now look what you've done! I bit the bullet and ordered a cornucopia to try out. I now have pairs of HE-400se, MC-450, DT990 600 Premium on the way, and because you spoke so highly of them (not to mention the $200 off sale) I bit on the M1570's too. I'll make sure to share my findings. God help my credit card.
> 
> Thanks again for your help and advice.


I don't remember the M1570 being on sale for $399 at the moment.  I hope it was.  

To honor your purchasing splurge:


----------



## deanorthk

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The GX is a great, versatile set. Yes, I work for Audeze, but I recommended it long before that. It's a solid banger even if it was just a headphone. If you got the dough, the GX ain't gonna let you down.


Thanks Madlustenvy, and I know you work for Audeze, no worry. I've read many reviews and reports about the GX. i'm looking to buy a second hand set though, as I have just invested quite a lot of money for a IFI audio Idsd signature amp/dac  I'm very curious to see how the GX would work with the SB X7 and all the EAX effects that it can offer for immersive gameplay!


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> I don't remember the M1570 being on sale for $399 at the moment.  I hope it was.
> 
> To honor your purchasing splurge:


Amazon Payments sure says so. Next thing is to wonder if that Sound Blaster X4 will drive them all OK. Based on the specs it ought to. Guess I'll find out shortly.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've made some decent headway into the written portion of my KPH40 review. Should have that up hopefully by this weekend.


----------



## zx6guy

Apologies ahead of time for the following ignorant question but will the Schiit Hel preserve Binaural Audio (Steam Audio, if turned on) in games like EFT or will it revert to Stereo?  I've moved away from my GSX1000 as it missed a lot of in-game cues in games like EFT and now run the "on board" with my Magni 2.  This set up with Steam Audio sounds way better but my mic gives off a lot of noise (discord) with this config so I'm hopeing the Hel will fix this.  Also, if memory serves, this was primarily a console (I'm slowly moving away) forum so apologies if I've taken this off track, just didn't know where else to ask and you guys have always been cool.  Headset is curently Game One and I'll likely stay in this family for now.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 5, 2022)

zx6guy said:


> Apologies ahead of time for the following ignorant question but will the Schiit Hel preserve Binaural Audio (Steam Audio, if turned on) in games like EFT or will it revert to Stereo?  I've moved away from my GSX1000 as it missed a lot of in-game cues in games like EFT and now run the "on board" with my Magni 2.  This set up with Steam Audio sounds way better but my mic gives off a lot of noise (discord) with this config so I'm hopeing the Hel will fix this.  Also, if memory serves, this was primarily a console (I'm slowly moving away) forum so apologies if I've taken this off track, just didn't know where else to ask and you guys have always been cool.  Headset is curently Game One and I'll likely stay in this family for now.


Once binaural/virtual surround has been introduced to the chain, it can't be removed. So the Hel will preserve it. 

And no worries, it may have started as a console thing, but for like the past half-decade or so, I mainly have done all testing on PC.


----------



## zx6guy

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Once binaural/virtual surround has been introduced to the chain, it can't be removed. So the Hel will preserve it.
> 
> And no worries, it may have started as a console thing, but for like the past half-decade or so, I mainly have done all testing on PC.


Thanks and cheers!


----------



## p1zzap1e

I just got my fostex t50rp a couple of days ago. Coming from a pair of audio technica ath-g1 paired with blasterx g6 it is a completly different experience. My ath seems hollow, now i want to go back and play hellblade senuas sacrifice and some other games just to try them. Was afraid that the g6 was not going to be able to handle them, but they power them good. Pairing the fostex with zmf oval earpads, heaven.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 5, 2022)

Much to my amazement I am now seeing that it's possible the Steelseries chatmix dial (https://steelseries.com/gaming-accessories/arctis-5-chatmix-dial) may be usable with any headset you want by using a proprietary 8-pin to 3.5mm 4-pole adapter. This would take care of a need I've had to be able to adjust game/chat mix via some kind of hardware knob when using any headphones I want. I'd also in that situation just run something like Dolby Atmos or some other virtual surround solution from my PC. If that works it would really open things up for me with regard to amp and DAC choice; I wouldn't be restricted to the Sound Blaster X4 or GSX-1000 for the game/chat functionality. The only thing left would be to figure out mic monitoring/sidetone which I'm guessing would be done via the "Listen to" function of Windows audio recording devices, unless there's a more elegant solution out there for some amps/DACs.

My question: am I correct in assuming I'd connect from that 4-pole 3.5mm connector to an amp/DAC and, from there, to headphones? Any issue there?


----------



## Jcue

I mentioned earlier that I got the GC7 and the PC38x. So I am having a slight issue with the sound. I can only seem to get this to happen In call of duty Vanguard at the moment. Whenever an explosion happens, I tend to get a crackling sound in my headphones (idk what to call it, some people said clipping, some people said popping and crackling.) I cant get it to do the same thing on warzone or battlefield 2042. I have also played some movies and have not been able to reproduce the issue only on Vanguard, although on the movies I watched they were not real base heavy. I have also played real base heavy music and recorded gameplay through NVidia shadow play, and when I re-watch the clips where it happens, or am listening to the music the crackling does not happen, Just when I'm playing.. Is there anyway I can test and see if its the hardware or just the game. I will be testing 2 other headsets (Game Ones's and some audio technicas) and my onboard with just the headsets tonight to see if this continues to happen.


----------



## NewCoke

Jcue said:


> I mentioned earlier that I got the GC7 and the PC38x. So I am having a slight issue with the sound. I can only seem to get this to happen In call of duty Vanguard at the moment. Whenever an explosion happens, I tend to get a crackling sound in my headphones (idk what to call it, some people said clipping, some people said popping and crackling.) I cant get it to do the same thing on warzone or battlefield 2042. I have also played some movies and have not been able to reproduce the issue only on Vanguard, although on the movies I watched they were not real base heavy. I have also played real base heavy music and recorded gameplay through NVidia shadow play, and when I re-watch the clips where it happens, or am listening to the music the crackling does not happen, Just when I'm playing.. Is there anyway I can test and see if its the hardware or just the game. I will be testing 2 other headsets (Game Ones's and some audio technicas) and my onboard with just the headsets tonight to see if this continues to happen.


I have the PC38X and the GC7.  That headphone definitely distorts in bass heavy movies for me with the the GC7, but not from other sources.  Especially with SXFI on.  The "budget" Koss stuff, too.  

I just assumed it's because of the 10 ohm output of the amp.  I have to turn up the volume to unhealthy levels with the 38X/Koss to hear any impactful bass, even for regular stereo.

You might want to get a higher ohm Sennheiser 6X0, 560S, or 58X to pair with the GC7 instead.

Unless we are both dealing with dud units (the GC7, that is). 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Jcue (Jan 6, 2022)

NewCoke said:


> I have the PC38X and the GC7.  That headphone definitely distorts in bass heavy movies for me with the the GC7, but not from other sources.  Especially with SXFI on.  The "budget" Koss stuff, too.
> 
> I just assumed it's because of the 10 ohm output of the amp.  I have to turn up the volume to unhealthy levels with the 38X/Koss to hear any impactful bass, even for regular stereo.
> 
> ...


That's kind of weird. My bass seems fine. Like I can only turn my unit up to about 40 before it is absolutely too loud. I've done quite a few bass tests, not the ones on YouTube, but some on a few different websites and the only time I had any issues is in the lower hz with sxfi turned on. Other then that mine sound great

Edit:
 So my onboard does not reproduce the sound. With none of my headphones or headsets. However on the gc7 I get the same issues on all of them. I just realized it may have to do with surround. When I turn it on it happenes. I'm going to try with 5.1 and stereo next.

I do notice around 35hz that my pc38x will start to sound like it's rattling? But that only happenes at high volumes.

Edit 2:
the distortion/clipping only happens on 7.1, 5.1 and stereo sound great.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Jcue said:


> That's kind of weird. My bass seems fine. Like I can only turn my unit up to about 40 before it is absolutely too loud. I've done quite a few bass tests, not the ones on YouTube, but some on a few different websites and the only time I had any issues is in the lower hz with sxfi turned on. Other then that mine sound great
> 
> Edit:
> So my onboard does not reproduce the sound. With none of my headphones or headsets. However on the gc7 I get the same issues on all of them. I just realized it may have to do with surround. When I turn it on it happenes. I'm going to try with 5.1 and stereo next.
> ...


The fact that this happens only within one application and the application itself - not a recording of that application's audio - implies to me it's something with how that game is outputting audio to your hardware and how your hardware is processing it. It's interesting too that it only happens with the GC7 and only with surround. Could you have surround turned on twice somewhere? As in could you have Windows doing surround processing in addition to the GC7 doing it? Might want to check your output settings in Windows for the GC7 playback device to make sure you don't have audio processing turned on there so it's all being done on the GC7. You also might want to check other settings there to make sure something isn't amiss. One other thing you might try would be lowing the output level on the Windows side to see if that makes any difference.


----------



## Jcue

JdeFalconr said:


> The fact that this happens only within one application and the application itself - not a recording of that application's audio - implies to me it's something with how that game is outputting audio to your hardware and how your hardware is processing it. It's interesting too that it only happens with the GC7 and only with surround. Could you have surround turned on twice somewhere? As in could you have Windows doing surround processing in addition to the GC7 doing it? Might want to check your output settings in Windows for the GC7 playback device to make sure you don't have audio processing turned on there so it's all being done on the GC7. You also might want to check other settings there to make sure something isn't amiss. One other thing you might try would be lowing the output level on the Windows side to see if that makes any difference.


I've come to f8nd out it only happenes on 7.1 mode


----------



## JdeFalconr

Jcue said:


> I've come to f8nd out it only happenes on 7.1 mode


Some similar threads I found:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...gc7_distortionstrange_eq_with_sxfi_on_vs_off/
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103366.0

From what I'm assuming is your Reddit thread on this issue (https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/ruj5yz/gc7_with_pc38x_crackling_sounds/) it looks like also turning on Scout Mode makes this issue no longer occur. Based on those other threads and your own findings it would seem that something in your GC7's audio processing of this particular sound in this particular game are the issue. Do you have some options within the 7.1 settings that could help? Or what about some EQ modes or other audio processing options on your GC7? Could you fiddle with those to get a sound scheme you like that also doesn't reproduce this issue?


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Some similar threads I found:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...gc7_distortionstrange_eq_with_sxfi_on_vs_off/
> https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103366.0
> 
> From what I'm assuming is your Reddit thread on this issue (https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlasterOfficial/comments/ruj5yz/gc7_with_pc38x_crackling_sounds/) it looks like also turning on Scout Mode makes this issue no longer occur. Based on those other threads and your own findings it would seem that something in your GC7's audio processing of this particular sound in this particular game are the issue. Do you have some options within the 7.1 settings that could help? Or what about some EQ modes or other audio processing options on your GC7? Could you fiddle with those to get a sound scheme you like that also doesn't reproduce this issue?


Try setting your output to the GC7 to 48KHz


----------



## JdeFalconr

So my gear has almost all arrived and I'm considering now how to go about testing to decide which headphones I'd want to keep out of the four. For music I think I have that covered (some FLACs I've ripped from CD played back via Winamp) but for positional audio and gaming I'm not quite sure how to do an apples-to-apples comparison. I mean yeah I can hop into a game and play for a bit but reproducing the exact same situations for each set of headphones won't be possible with a multiplayer game like BF2042. https://www.audiocheck.net/ has some interesting tests but I don't see anything positional beyond stereo tests. Any suggestions?

Oh and by the way, be very careful with shipping options when ordering headphones from Amazon. To me, at least, sitting on a porch the below picture screams "Please steal me!" There's a warning about this at checkout and an option to use Amazon packaging instead; I'd highly advise going that route!


----------



## AxelCloris

JdeFalconr said:


> Oh and by the way, be very careful with shipping options when ordering headphones from Amazon. To me, at least, sitting on a porch the below picture screams "Please steal me!" There's a warning about this at checkout and an option to use Amazon packaging instead; I'd highly advise going that route!


Yeah, always look for that checkbox on Amazon. I ordered a rather nice pair of denims from them a while back and they legitimately just slapped a label on the plastic bag and sent them fully "nude," just like your headphones. I can sort of understand it with giant boxed items, like they did with my countertop convection oven, where they don't have a box large enough to accommodate it, but audio gear and clothing? The heck, Amazon?

Glad to hear your beyers weren't nicked along the way.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah that's insane. I'd be miffed.

I don't think I've ever been sent anything not in a box except my PC monitor which DID miff me off. Like, really, you gonna leave an exposed $700 monitor in my front door while no one is home...


----------



## Jcue

Chastity said:


> Try setting your output to the GC7 to 48KHz


I have tried all different settings. i believe the 7.1 mode is just bugged.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah that's insane. I'd be miffed.
> 
> I don't think I've ever been sent anything not in a box except my PC monitor which DID miff me off. Like, really, you gonna leave an exposed $700 monitor in my front door while no one is home...


A monitor? That's pretty egregious in my opinion. I'm kind of surprised Amazon even offers people the option to repackage stuff instead of just doing it, up to a reasonable point of course like @AxelCloris and the countertop oven. I get it from a business perspective but for the customer...not so great.

By the way, any thoughts on that other question from my post re: testing positional audio across multiple headphones? Given the amount of reviews you've done I'll bet you have a good way to accomplish that.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JdeFalconr said:


> By the way, any thoughts on that other question from my post re: testing positional audio across multiple headphones? Given the amount of reviews you've done I'll bet you have a good way to accomplish that.



I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Can you reiterate what you need?

I normally just find a suite of games I'm used to playing and testing out their positional cues there. I don't do stock tests, as without personal feedback, they don't come across convincingly.


----------



## Radio81

I switched my setup from a double amped Turtle Beach TAC + Magni/Loki combo, to a single Creative SXFI amp.  I gave up hardware chatmix, mic monitoring, mic boost, and background noise limiter.  Great options for a wired mic, but I mostly use a modmic wireless.  And I find chatmix in PS5 OS to be sufficient.

The SXFI amp along with the SHP9500 or X2HR is very enjoyable.  I played the entire Godfall campaign (20 hours or so) and it really sounds like it's out of your head with SXFI enabled.  I'm not a PC gamer, so I haven't tried the software options for 3D audio, but I'm impressed with SXFI.

The weird thing is, I can't get SXFI to sound right with the PC37X or Epos H6 Pro.  Even the Koss KSC75 sounds great with it enabled.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 7, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Can you reiterate what you need?
> 
> I normally just find a suite of games I'm used to playing and testing out their positional cues there. I don't do stock tests, as without personal feedback, they don't come across convincingly.


Sorry to be unclear. I have four headphones I'm going to compare for gaming suitability for myself. I think I have the music part figured out and it's the gaming and positional audio portion that I'm asking for help with. In that respect I'm looking for a way to test all four in an identical manner to the greatest extent possible - i.e. if I'm going to play a game then in an ideal world the same in-game events would occur for each different headphone test. A recording of some sort would work but I don't know if it would include the same positional details I'm after. Alternatively if there were some kind of test suite that does positions that would do it too. Of course I want to spend time playing with them as well. I'm just concerned with using identical tests to help expose the differences in each headphone. Does that make sense?


----------



## Radio81

You could play the same single player campaign level 4 times.

IMO, you don't need to hear the EXACT events over and over.  Play a round of battlefield with one headphone, another round with the other, etc.  You should be able to tell within a matter of hours what works best.  I would actually suggest trying several different types of games with each headphone.


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 7, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Sorry to be unclear. I have four headphones I'm going to compare for gaming suitability for myself. I think I have the music part figured out and it's the gaming and positional audio portion that I'm asking for help with. In that respect I'm looking for a way to test all four in an identical manner to the greatest extent possible - i.e. if I'm going to play a game then in an ideal world the same in-game events would occur for each different headphone test. A recording of some sort would work but I don't know if it would include the same positional details I'm after. Alternatively if there were some kind of test suite that does positions that would do it too. Of course I want to spend time playing with them as well. I'm just concerned with using identical tests to help expose the differences in each headphone. Does that make sense?


I would try to eliminate all possible variables other than the headphones and do this:


Choose the right game and stick with it during testing: One with properly recorded sound cues (Example: BF1, BF5, Overwatch, Counterstrike) and Not games with controversial sound quality like COD Warzone and BF2042 (even the devs say sound updates are still on the way for BF2042 so I would avoid that)
Choose the right VSS app: avoid any Creative surround sound processing, stick to the Windows built-in Dolby Atmos for Headphones (Enable Game Mode) or even Windows Sonic
Make sure all of your four headphones are adequately powered. What are the output ratings (in mW or W) of your amp? If you only own the creative SXFI amp, make sure to use it as an amp only, disable all of its sound processing features.
Make sure you set in-game audio settings properly: Surround output, Speaker type: home theater or Large Speakers. In BF1 and BF5 i choose headphones with Dolby Atmos for Headphones enabled.
Play competitive matches using each headphone for at least 1 hour, and test for the following:

*Soundstage*: How far can you clearly hear sounds? How big does the battlefield sound? Do you hear distant gunfights, distant door slams, distant footsteps, clearly?
*Detail Retrieval*: How much details can you hear? Which headphones enable you to hear subtle sounds you never knew existed in this game before?
*Separation*: How clearly separated are the different sounds? Are they all congested or delivered distinctly? Pay attention to sound details in high action scenes.
*Imaging*: How accurate is imaging? Does it tell you the sound came from somewhere on the right or exactly at 1o'clock etc..?
*Rear Cues*: Can you hear rear sounds as coming from the rear? Don't fall for cognitive bias when testing, you have to be taken by surprise to truly test it. That's why play for 1 hour using each headphone.
*Bass Bleed*: is the rumble of explosions loud enough masking all other high treble sounds on the battlefield?
*Optional*: is there any verticality in sound cues? If an enemy is on the floor above you, do you hear them as above? Only a few planar headphones and the HD800 can do that.

I am really interested in your findings as I plan to pick one of the headphones that you purchased too, for the same application. It would be nice if you could give a score for each of the above 7 points for each headphone, it will facilitate communicating your findings later.


----------



## deanorthk

Just got the LCD GX Audeze, testing them with SB X7 right now. Going to test different type of game, FPS, rpg, and music/movies to see how they perform compared to the TH900. One thing is really clear : the confort is ver different compared to the TH900


----------



## Chastity

ronfifer said:


> *Soundstage*: How far can you clearly hear sounds? How big does the battlefield sound? Do you hear distant gunfights, distant door slams, distant footsteps, clearly?
> *Detail Retrieval*: How much details can you hear? Which headphones enable you to hear subtle sounds you never knew existed in this game before?
> *Separation*: How clearly separated are the different sounds? Are they all congested or delivered distinctly? Pay attention to sound details in high action scenes.
> *Imaging*: How accurate is imaging? Does it tell you the sound came from somewhere on the right or exactly at 1o'clock etc..?
> ...


My M1570 has all of that in spades, including vertical cues.  Soundstage is a full circle with depth, and is wide, and the imaging within is perfect.  Using Oratory1990's Harman Curve EQ, modified for my age and taste.


----------



## deanorthk

ronfifer said:


> I would try to eliminate all possible variables other than the headphones and do this:
> 
> 
> Choose the right game and stick with it during testing: One with properly recorded sound cues (Example: BF1, BF5, Overwatch, Counterstrike) and Not games with controversial sound quality like COD Warzone and BF2042 (even the devs say sound updates are still on the way for BF2042 so I would avoid that)
> ...


I like the way you approach this, i'll try to repeat those tests, except I don't own any of those games, neither do I play such games 
The only things that I have would be Ghost Recon Breakpoint :/


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 8, 2022)

Well the X4 finally showed up today after some Amazon delays. To get to know the thing a bit I busted out my old, old Siberia V1's, the only wired headset I own. Maybe it's the amp in the X4, but I turned off all the EQs and sound enhancements save for virtual 7.1 and just applied some EQ from Winamp and they sound _excellent_ listening to Andain's Beautiful Things / Gabriel & Dresden Unplugged Mix and Daft Punk's Instant Crush. Looking forward to busting out the real headphones later this evening when the kiddo is in bed. All have arrived save the HE400SE's.



JdeFalconr said:


> So besides the question of which device to get (I'm still leaning towards the SB X4 over the GSX 1000) I need some help narrowing down the headphones, please. I very much appreciate the list provided at the start of this post to begin narrowing down what feels like an ocean of them, so big thanks to @Mad Lust Envy for the help there.
> 
> From there I still feel like I could use some help further refining things. I'm looking for headphones in the $150-300 range that strike a good balance between competitive clarity/positioning and fun, perhaps leaning ever-so-slightly towards the latter as I play things besides just shooters. Based on the ratings (Yes I saw the warning about comparisons, I can't help but use them as an initial metric!) it would seem the Fidelio X2, Sennheiser 6XX or Beyerdynamic DT990 Premium 250ohm look like good starting spots but I'm absolutely open to suggestions. I like immersiveness so I was looking at closed-back headphones though I'm happy to entertain other ideas.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.





ronfifer said:


> I would try to eliminate all possible variables other than the headphones and do this:
> 
> 
> Choose the right game and stick with it during testing: One with properly recorded sound cues (Example: BF1, BF5, Overwatch, Counterstrike) and Not games with controversial sound quality like COD Warzone and BF2042 (even the devs say sound updates are still on the way for BF2042 so I would avoid that)
> ...


Appreciate the advice @ronfifer , looks like a good place to start.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I liked the Siberia V1. I got one for my ex-gf. One of the most comfortable fullsized headsets there is. You swap out the pads? I remember the V1s being velour.

In other news, I finished the KPH40 review. I'll edit and post on Monday.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I liked the Siberia V1. I got one for my ex-gf. One of the most comfortable fullsized headsets there is. You swap out the pads? I remember the V1s being velour.
> 
> In other news, I finished the KPH40 review. I'll edit and post on Monday.


I did swap pads but just today; the originals were fake leather which disintegrated on me - as in literally flaking off. The ones I found aren't much different. Oddly now they seem to press on my temples but not the rear of my ears. Oh well, they still sound pretty good.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 11, 2022)

Initial impressions after the evening. No EQ settings for music or gaming. I learned that I do not like Dolby Atmos - sounds too airy and a bit spacy in a bad way; sounds may be placed precisely but they're not as sharp as I'm used to. Treble felt way too boosted. I switched to Creative's virtual 7.1 where the audio feels sharper. Positioning was just fine. This also was the first time I'd experienced open-backed headphones. It's definitely weird and will take some getting used to, which I expect will not be a problem. Game for tonight was Battlefield 2042 while chatting with buddies over Discord, the perfect opportunity to test that all-important chatmix functionality as well.

Initial impressions:

*Sound Blaster X4 DAC/AMP:*
Very pleased so far. Seems to have had no problem powering anything thus far; there's a software control for impendence I adjusted. Software is intuitive and easy. Controls are too. I wish that the Audio Balance feature (game/chat mix, basically the reason I bought this thing) could be used with Direct Mode but no big deal. Had a funny issue with only outputting the right channel to headphones until I plugged in briefly to the speaker outs on the rear, then switched back; no idea what was going on there but it's the only issue I've had.

*Mackie MC-450*
Overall I wasn't as impressed as the other two headphones though I will revisit these. Bass is there but not pronounced. Good clarity on Flynn Lives (TRON Legacy Soundtrack) to where I could hear noise from orchestra members. Neat soundstage on Mountains from the Interstellar soundtrack; that metronome or whatever it is sounded forward in a way I hadn't heard before. Vocals on Stadium Arcadium sounded forward in a new way; very cool. For gaming, though, they felt a bit muddy to me; not as sharp as other headphones. I'll try again with them, both with music and games. 
*EDIT:* Second time around with these was much better and I'm glad I went back. Extremely open, round, airy soundstage. Very crisp, precise sound, my initial impression was dead wrong there. Their overall sound with music felt shallow, like there wasn't much meat on the bone so to speak, but extremely detailed.

*DT990 600 Premium*
Wow, I see what the fuss is about. Wonderfully sharp sound, great bass. Gigantic, spacy and wonderful soundstage; positioning was excellent as advertised though I did recognize that "hole" from 5-7 o'clock. Everything from that direction sounded to be in the same place but it really wasn't a big deal at all and had zero impact on my enjoyment. But besides the "hole" the whole battlefield opened up around me with these and I found myself paying relying on direction of sounds in ways I hadn't before. These headphones are fantastically light, I was surprised at the weight of the box and the headphones themselves almost feel like they aren't there. Not sure yet about the almost furry earpads. I wish the cable was removable but no big deal. I only gamed with these, I'll very much look forward to trying music soon. I can also see how the treble from these can be fatiguing; it was starting to get that way for me after a good 75 minutes playing. Not sure if EQ can take care of that without sacrificing what these are so good at.

*M1570*
These have been a treat. Big sound, great bass. With no EQ they sounded just slightly less sharp than the DT990's overall. In-game positioning was great. That slightly less-sharp sound persisted for music until I threw my normal Winamp EQ at it (I'll have to fiddle more another time) and then they rocked. If I stick with these I'll probably adjust the general system EQ to sharpen the sound. That wonderful bass in Solar Sailer off the TRON Legacy Soundtrack strobed lusciously and I felt like it was tightly controlled in a way I hadn't heard; the strings sang. Cornfield Chase from the Interstellar soundtrack sounds wondrous, especially that pipe organ; the bass to the lower notes was just amazing. If I close my eyes the notes seem to hang in the air around me in a beautiful soundstage. No Time For Caution felt like all of the various instruments layered together such that I could mentally focus on each layer to enjoy them as opposed to listening to a mooshed-together amalgamation of them all. The huge, booming bass on that track sounded amazing. Binary Finary's 1998 off of Tranceport was a ton of fun; I got detail out of the bass notes I hadn't heard before. I felt like the growling guitar in Bush's Comedown distorted a bit but that could easily be the song and not the headphones.
Oh and speaking of big, these headphones are enormous. The case they come in is seriously large enough to be a hat case. The headphones themselves are gigantic cans and heavy with big, chunky mini-XLR connectors; kind of cool, honestly, in an 80's Cyberpunk sort of way. I was quite surprised to also find them extremely comfortable to wear, even for an extended period. The lambskin earpads feel luxurious. They also feel warm and I'm worried that if I find myself gaming in the summer with these my ears will be quite warm; good thing they're open-backed. Maybe I should expect all of this from $600 headphones? I honestly have never listened to such expensive audio gear before. But God help me I think I like it.

*Final Thoughts for now*
I'm looking forward to trying the DT990's for music and fiddling with the MC-450's a little more to give them a fair shake. I of course still have the HE400SE's on the way as well if Amazon/HiFiMan ever gets around to shipping them; ETA late next week. I am sorely tempted to try and order a pair of HD600/650/6XX's (as so many lists of high-end gaming headphones list them) just to see how they compare, but then again I'd love to order about five or six others in addition so I shall resist! I think tomorrow I'm going to try and break out some Pink Floyd off of Pulse to see what I get out of it, dig into some more Audioslave, and I have a live jazz CD that I think will work great for this test after I dig it out of storage and re-rip it in FLAC.

The other big variable here is that I have a Steelseries Chatmix dial on order from eBay. That one piece of hardware was the main driver in ordering the Sound Blaster X4 instead of an actual headphone DAC/AMP. If I can make that gadget work with normal headphones - and work well - then I could potentially ditch the X4 and buy an actual headphone DAC/AMP instead of a gaming product (PC USB --> Chatmix Dial --> DAC/AMP --> Headphones). The question is whether there's a sound quality difference to be gained there and I'm not really sure there is, especially if I'm using Dolby Atmos which I presently dislike. Moreover I don't know that my ears are refined and/or experienced enough to really tell much of a difference, especially at my price points. My gut so far is telling me it may not be worth the trouble.

Thanks to the many of you who have been of help thus far. I'll look forward to posting more impressions as well as some photos.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 9, 2022)

@JdeFalconr   If you use EQ APO, here's my current EQ for the M1570:


```
Filter: ON LSC Fc 115 Hz Gain 7.5 dB Q 0.71
Filter: ON PK Fc 1100 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 2
Filter: ON HSC Fc 1300 Hz Gain 7 dB Q 0.71
Filter: ON PK Fc 3050 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 3
Filter: ON PK Fc 5000 Hz Gain -5.1 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 8100 Hz Gain -4.6 dB Q 6
Filter: ON HSC Fc 10000 Hz Gain -3.8 dB Q 0.71
Preamp: -3.5 dB
```

Based off of Oratory1990's M1570 Lambskins targeting Harman Curve, adjustments for my tastes.  Use the various shelfs to adjust tuning.  Mind you I also have GE JAN 5654W tubes on my audio chain.


----------



## ronfifer

Jdefalconr, If you like dt990 for competitive gaming,  you might as well try the dt1990 as an upgrade, and it's within your price range after you return what you dont like. Looking forward to your feedback on the HE400se vs DT990 vs M1570 in fps gaming. 

Chastity, i already have M570 and only use headphones for competitive gaming. Will i benefit significantly by upgrading to M1070open or M1570?


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 9, 2022)

deanorthk said:


> I like the way you approach this, i'll try to repeat those tests, except I don't own any of those games, neither do I play such games
> The only things that I have would be Ghost Recon Breakpoint :/


I was only referring to competitive FPS games to be tested for his open back headphones with a focus on accurate imaging. In your case, TH900 vs LCD GX, which are not the best for competitive, i would follow a different approach and test them for:
- bass quality: which one has a more immersive rumble in its explosions
- bass texture: which one has more meat and detail in its bass. Explosions sounding more full and not congested or tinny or thin etc...
- bass control: which one prevents explosions from masking all other sound details in the spectrum, that is preventing the bass from bleeding all over the sound signature
- detail retrieval
- immersion factor: which one is more immersive in single player games, and blocks out all external noise
- soundstage:which has a bigger staging in open world games like the witcher 3
- games to test with: Single player Horror or Scifi games. Games where u want to feel the rumble of explosions, feel isolated and immersed, feel scared.
I would not try those 2 headphones with competitive shooters. Please do share your feedback as these 2 are on my shortlist and i need to buy one. TH900 is closed back while GX is open.


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## JdeFalconr (Jan 9, 2022)

Chastity said:


> EQ APO


Thank you! I'll give it a go. I was just going to use the EQ integrated with the Creative app but I'll try that application. I've heard these EQ profiles by Oratory1990 referred to a number of times in relation to making the M1570's really shine.

EDIT: What do I do with the values you gave me? Just plunk them direct into the config.txt file? That file looks formatted differently by default:

```
Preamp: -6 dB
Include: example.txt
GraphicEQ: 25 0; 40 0; 63 0; 100 0; 160 0; 250 0; 400 0; 630 0; 1000 0; 1600 0; 2500 0; 4000 0; 6300 0; 10000 0; 16000 0
```



ronfifer said:


> Jdefalconr, If you like dt990 for competitive gaming,  you might as well try the dt1990 as an upgrade, and it's within your price range after you return what you dont like. Looking forward to your feedback on the HE400se vs DT990 vs M1570 in fps gaming.
> 
> Chastity, i already have M570 and only use headphones for competitive gaming. Will i benefit significantly by upgrading to M1070open or M1570?



Appreciate the recommendation, thank you. I'd love to give them a go but sadly that price point of about $650 is above my limit of $400, and even that's pushing it a bit. I planned to return all but one of the headphones I'd purchased. I keep getting the itch to try more headphones within my budget as I would hate to miss something "amazing" I just wasn't aware of before. But I think I could be tempted to do that forever and I need to remind myself this purchase doesn't have to be my last one.


----------



## JdeFalconr

@Chastity So I installed Equalizer APO and put in your EQ settings. I must be doing something wrong...there's still a muddy, imprecise quality to music when I go with the APO EQ settings, whether yours or Oratory1990's (as I've tried to enter them). I get sharpness if I turn on Winamp's EQ. Am I doing something wrong or is this more of a personal preference thing? Winamp's settings don't have values that I can extract somehow but here's what my preferred EQ curve looks like:


----------



## ronfifer

the dt1990 can go on sale, or can buy it used, has a big B-stock market. You ordered the M1570 right? which is $600 MSRP so i though you can also try the DT1990...


----------



## JdeFalconr

ronfifer said:


> the dt1990 can go on sale, or can buy it used, has a big B-stock market. You ordered the M1570 right? which is $600 MSRP so i though you can also try the DT1990...


Ah I understand the confusion. The only reason the M1570 was an option is because it was on sale for $400.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 9, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> @Chastity So I installed Equalizer APO and put in your EQ settings. I must be doing something wrong...there's still a muddy, imprecise quality to music when I go with the APO EQ settings, whether yours or Oratory1990's (as I've tried to enter them). I get sharpness if I turn on Winamp's EQ. Am I doing something wrong or is this more of a personal preference thing? Winamp's settings don't have values that I can extract somehow but here's what my preferred EQ curve looks like:


Copy my text and save it to a .txt file.  In EQ APO, on the config.txt tab, add an Control...Include, and load the txt file there.  If you hit the up arrow icon, it will open the file in another tab and you can edit the settings there.

As for the DT-990 and DT-1990, I owned the DT-990 Pro, and own the DT-1990, and my M1570 is my upgrade for the DT-1990.



ronfifer said:


> Chastity, i already have M570 and only use headphones for competitive gaming. Will i benefit significantly by upgrading to M1070open or M1570?


Yes.  The M570 isn't as spacious as either the M1070 or the M1570.  The M1570 is the fuller sounding of the two, tho if only for gaming the M1070 will do great.  They've been on sale for $219 recently in the summer (I paid $239).  Last sale they were $299.  If M1570 is $399, and M1070 is $299, then consider the M1570.  If the M1070 is $219, then get that. (I own both, I got the M1070 first, then a few months later the M1570 to satisfy my curiosity.  I kept the M1570, and with my EQ settings and tubes, the sound quality went to the next level, and are entry-level summit-fi quality.  I thought the Dt-1990 had nice imaging, but these are another level, as I can close my eyes and picture the sound room where the music is recorded, and the vocals are VERY natural sounding, and can be very intimate as well.)


----------



## deanorthk

ronfifer said:


> I was only referring to competitive FPS games to be tested for his open back headphones with a focus on accurate imaging. In your case, TH900 vs LCD GX, which are not the best for competitive, i would follow a different approach and test them for:
> - bass quality: which one has a more immersive rumble in its explosions
> - bass texture: which one has more meat and detail in its bass. Explosions sounding more full and not congested or tinny or thin etc...
> - bass control: which one prevents explosions from masking all other sound details in the spectrum, that is preventing the bass from bleeding all over the sound signature
> ...


Thanks, will do asap


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## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2022)

Hey guys, happy belated new year! Don't ever say I haven't at least posted a review each year. 

Here's my Koss KPH-40 Review!


----------
----------



*Koss KPH40 Utility*


*$40 as of Jan 2022
Where To Buy: Koss.com, **Amazon.com*

_Disclaimer: While I'm now under the employ of Audeze, I am still a reviewer at heart, and have the freedom to continue doing reviews as long as it's not in direct conflict with Audeze. As the KPH40 is a value product in a niche form factor where Audeze hasn't quite gone to (trust me, I'd kill for an on ear planar with ear clips like the KSC75), I do not see any issues or conflicts of interest here. That being said, everyone, go buy some Audeze headphones, please and thank you. Let them know I sent you. 

I purchased the KPH-40 with my own money, and have not been influenced in any way to speak positively or otherwise about the product. I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, Koss or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything.

For anyone asking for KPH30i comparisons, I'm sorry, but I had zero interest for the 30i, the simple reason being entirely because they were not compatible with the Koss ear clips. No ear clips = no go. My attachment to Koss has really only ever been with the KSC75, KSC35, Sportapro, and Portapro, all which have interchangeable clips/headband mounts. Now you can add the KPH40 to that list. Nothing against the KPH30i which I'm sure is an absolute banger, judging by all the praise it receives.

*update 1/28/2022:  *Like a self fulfilling prophecy, the KPH40's right side side has already went silent. As you can probably surmise, just as I mentioned on this review, this likely means the cable connecting to the driver has gone bad. Record setting pace for the cable defect. So the fancy, swappable cables means jack squat in the face of an issue up the chain and next to the driver._




*Intro*​
As a decades-plus fan of the venerable Koss clip-ons (and owner of about 300,000 broken KSC75s and other 60-ohm Koss variants mainly due to cable failures), the moment I heard of the KPH40 and saw the rear housing being updated from the older housing used on the KSC35, PortaPro, SportaPro (all variants of these models), I knew I had to see if there was a legitimate change apart from the housing.

Being accustomed to buying SportaPros (as they're usually the cheapest model that use the same drivers as the others), and attaching a headband to them (in my case, KSC75 clips), I needed to see if Koss finally gave us a true alternative to sourcing your own headband to use with all these drivers (for those that do not want to use clip ons, or the original, chunky SportaPro or PortaPro headbands).

Then there's the fact that Koss finally, FINALLY decided to use detachable cables. But wait...Koss, this isn't what we meant by detachable! Ah well, at least they tried. The idea and execution is actually pretty good, albeit still lacking the one key component that would make Koss rise well above the heavens: MMCX connectors. Maybe one day Koss. MAYBE ONE DAY.

So have we finally received an official Koss version of "clipping on good Koss drivers to a Parts Express like-headband"? Yes, we have, and it's actually BETTER than that.



*What's In the Box*​
Not much here. I like it this way. You get:



KPH40 - The main headphone is just the headband, the drivers, and up to the y-split portion of the cable, which terminates into a FEMALE 2.5mm input. This where you'll be buying the optional (and pricey) cables direct from Koss. You can get a Lightning cable, or Type C cable for all your specific needs. If there's one thing I like, it's options. It's simple and easy to understand.

3.5mm utility cord - the add on cable which attaches to the Y-split of the headphone's cable via 2.5mm (balanced?) connector. So you're telling me I can source a balanced 2.5mm cable that terminates into 4.4mm or XLR?  This will need verification on my end, as it may just be for microphone purposes. I don't know. We'll see. My biggest gripe with the cable is that it's just too short. I understand that these are very portable friendly, but would it have killed Koss to add at least one more foot? The additional (optional) cables you can purchase are rated at 4ft, but I sincerely doubt the included 3.5mm cable surpasses 3ft. There is no slack. It's like they REALLY want one to buy the optional cables. As an audiophile, if you plan on using your own analog gear, you may need an extension cable of sorts. I'd rather pay someone to mod MMCX connectors instead.

Literature - Not much but the simple manual/booklet that I've long since lost and can't remember it had. Probably the warranty information.

All in all, the goodies are all you need, though I'm a bit saddened they they don't come with a 1/4" adapter. I mean, that was a Koss staple, so not sure why they didn't include one now. Yes, I have a drawer of about 7,000 adapters, but normal consumers getting their first headphone for their new cool mini desktop amplifier will now have to source their own. Ah well. Keep that in mind, if you somehow don't happen to have 1/4" adapters hiding between your cushions.

*What's NOT In The Box?*

For $20 a pop, Koss sells their Utility Series Lightning Cord Bundle (for Apple products), and the Utility Series USB-C Cord Bundle (for the vastly superior "everything else that ain't Apple" group). I kid guys, I kid.

I should mention, if you plan on buying these later than when bundling it with the KPH40 through the Koss website, they will set you back $45 each instead. More than the cost of the KPH40, which I find....questionable?

Last but not least is a nice Utility Series Hard Case for $15. Oh wait. The *Utility *Hard Case, made for the *Utility* series is *NOT* compatible with the KPH40 *Utility*. Huh? Koss...just...why? Even if it was bigger, I think you should've made a case that fits ALL of them, not just 2 of 3 *Utility* headphones. This case lacks... *pause for effect*... *UTILITY*.








*Build and Comfort*​

*Headband:*

Let's be real. This is the main reason you want the KPH40. Utility cords? Nah. It's the headband, 100%. And what a nice headband it is. This design was first used in the collaboration between Koss and Retrospekt with the P/21 (though with slightly different looks, as the headband on the P/21 was a brushed, shiny metal, while the KPH40 headband is essentially a matte, metallic grey). I think the P/21 wins out in terms of headband colors and finish, if just slightly. Not a big deal either way. I think they both look great.

The headband is very, very similar in size to the old Parts Express headband everyone knows by now, but with much better design, and without your hair constantly getting caught. The headband is all metal with the exception of the adjustment mechanism's accents and the rear of the portion that the drivers snap on to. It's minimalistic, and retro futuristic. It's beautiful, weightless, and malleable.

I have a huge head, and there's still enough extension here to fit me juuuuust right.

There's no padding to speak of, but when you're essentially wearing nothing, you won't even think about padding or any lack of. It simply disappears on your head. Mind you, I still would much rather detach the KPH40 drivers and attach them to KSC75 clips (which I normally use in this manner), but even for me, there's very little to complain about here with the headband. It's nearly perfect.

I DO have to mention one thing: One of the black circle covers of the headband popped off as I was trying to re-attach the drivers back on. It seems the glue that holds it in place detached from the main headband portion and stuck to the black plastic circle. Unfortunately, once that happens, there is no way to attach the black plastic back onto the headband without removing all the glue (trust me, I tried), so you'll need to crazy glue the black plastic's outer rim (on the inside) back onto the metal headband in order for stay firmly in place.



This won't really matter to you guys that don't plan on detaching the drivers to use with clips, but if you do, just be mindful and try to hold the black plastic portion in place while snapping the drivers on or off. It's no big deal to me as I planned to use the KPH40 with KSC75 clips, but just be mindful you can damage the headband, and it's not a simple process to pop the black plastic back into place. Say that 4 times fast.


*Cups/Drivers:*

Can you even call the Koss 60-ohm driver housings cups? I think it's universally agreed that Koss basically just has drivers that happen to attach to clips or headbands. No cups. If you want to be technical, sure, the housing is where the pads and rear plastic cover attaches to, but tomatoe, tomatoh. If you ask me, it's just drivers on clips.

I need to mention the KPH40's housing is different from the older housing on the KSC35, PortaPro, and SportaPro. It's minute, but the design HAS changed. I didn't even realize it at first!



On the left is the KPH40. On the right is either my MMCX modded KSC35 Wireless, or MMCX modded PortaPro Black editions. It doesn't matter which it actually is (they're identical in sound and looks). Notice the lack of segmentation walls between the holes. This is the big indicator that Koss has finally started to update their designs. The question now is whether this new outer design will be shared with other models in the future, or if it's relegated to the Utility series. I say this, because it does appear that the PortaPro Utility also uses the newer design. Unsure if the non-Utility 60-ohm driver models will retain the old cup design or move on to the new ones. This also pertains to sound, which I'll mention later.


*Ear Pads:*

These pads still feel the same as it's always been on the 35, Porta, Sporta driver variants. Note that the KSC75 uses a scratchier, less pleasant feeling pad than the others. I'd say that the edges are less rounded on the KPH40 pads compared to the others, but it may just be because these are newer, and aren't a change that should affect the sonic attributes.

I may be sentenced to death for this, but I'm not one of those Yaxi pad enthusiasts. I didn't like how they affected the sound on the older drivers, and they're also less comfortable when using clips (don't @ me). They MAY be worthwhile checking into for the KPH40 if you plan on using its headband. I'm not. Your mileage may vary. I think the stock pads are perfect with clips and sounds fantastic, so no Yaxi pads for me.


*Cables:*

Unfortunately, the KPH40 STILL doesn't have detachable cables where it counts (the area prone to always, always going bad on Koss 60-ohm driver models: the complete and utter lack of strain relief where the cables attach to the drivers. Every single Koss headphone I've bought (including the KSC35 Wireless and PortaPro wireless,) has gone bad at the same exact spot on the cables (*update: It has also gone bad on this KPH40 just 2 1/2 weeks after the review posted). *I don't see this changing even with the KPH40. It's an eventuality. I don't mistreat my headphones either. I don't ever hold my headphones from the cable, knowing full well that's an easy way to kill these. And yet, it still happens.

On the positive side, I like that the new cable is flat. That's nice.

Now, what are my grievances with the cable, aside from its eventual death? I think the Y split could've been made about 4-6 inches further down. I also think the Y split could have a small dot or other indicator to connect the utility cords symmetrically, as the 'barrel' isn't perfectly cylindrical. It's not a big deal, but those with OCD may be irked by it. There are very faint plastic molding lines on the side that can help guide you, but they're practically invisible.

Now the big issue with the cable is something I previously mentioned: It's simply too short. The Utility cord is about 3 feet (by guesstimation). 1 foot added by the cable portion attached to the KPH40 itself. That leaves you with so little slack, any movements will likely tug at the cable and add strain to the already questionable connection between the driver and the cables. 4 feet? Come on Koss, I understand you intend the KPH40 to be for portable use, but no headphone should have anything less than 5 feet of cable length, personally. Tucking in a foot of this cable into a pants pocket where your or DAP is is no major biggie. Having so little cable, however, is.

For a model that's focused on cable swapping, if the other options are this short... there's gonna have to be another redesign. I literally can't lean back on my computer chair without the cable wanting to snap off from the amp on my desk which is within arm's length.

At the ends of the cable are the plugs: a 2.5mm plug which may or may not be balanced or carries a mic channel. I'll need verification. On the other end is a 3.5mm TRS connection. There's an error on the website's image that shows TRRS instead. Not sure why. Perhaps the stock cable was meant to have an inline mic, but may have been changed before release. As stated earlier, there's no 1/4" snap off adapter included, so you'll have to source your own. If these aren't your first pair of headphones, you likely have some laying around. This is another sign that makes Koss seem like they really don't want you to use these at home on desktop gear for some reason. I wholeheartedly believe most of us will want an extension cable of some kind.


*Weight and Clamp:*

The KPH40 is literally two drivers strapped to a very thin piece of lightweight metal that I'd say barely qualifies as a headband. As such, the KPH40 may as well weigh absolutely nothing because that's how it feels when worn. You really can't get any better than weightless. It's one of the reasons I'm such a diehard fan of the clip on Koss models. It's like wearing nothing, and the KPH40 continues that trend, headband or not.

Clamp is probably the only minor quibble I have with the comfort at least when it comes to the headband. Now, I need to stress this: The KPH40 does not really have a clamp by traditional means. You're essentially just getting two drivers that are gently being pressed towards the ears by the headband. If you've ever used on ear headphones before, you will think the comfort is essentially 9.9 out of 10. I'm not most people. I've become used to clip-ons where instead of pressing in towards the ears, the drivers essentially rest near the ears. The only potential discomfort there would be how you feel about the clips hanging on to your ears. For me, this is MUCH more comfortable than any headphone in existence, especially with the KSC75 clips. One can complain about the KSC35 clips being a bit sharp where it rests on the ears, but even that is more comfortable than practically any headband (including the KPH40 headband), personally-speaking. Still, as most people aren't going to switch from the headband, you can rest easy. The headband is fantastic.


*Final Build and Comfort Impressions:*

One should come to expect some things with the venerable 60-ohm Koss products.

1. The cable will go bad. It's just a fact of life by this point. (*update:* *DID GO BAD*, and fail on the right side)
2. They headphones weigh nothing (even the ch*o*nky SportaPro headband weighs nothing)
3. Due to how insubstantial they feel to the touch, they won't inspire confidence in terms of durability. However, outside of the cable, they can last forever, aside from potential driver rattle.

So really, I am and will always be happy with Koss build here, outside of the cables. Did I mention cable durability is questionable? No? Well, let me tell you that the cables will likely go bad. Don't say I didn't warn you. Yes, it's a new design for the cable, and yes they're flat, and break away past the split which is new and different, but connection strength between the cable and the drivers is, and has always been a Koss problem. I don't see this changing. Nothing has happened yet at the time of review, but I'm not holding my breath.

Comfort-wise, the KPH40 is excellent with the new headband or replaced with any of the other mounts. PortaPro headband, SportaPro headband, Parts Express headband, KSC35 clips, or KSC75 clips, they're all what I'd consider going from quite comfortable to incredibly comfortable. Some people don't find clips to be comfortable, but I'd call these people dead wrong. Yeah, I said it.

In short, the KPH40 as it comes out of the box may as well be 8.5/10 personally, and I'm sure most others will say it's 9/10 or higher, until they yank the cable (and trust me, it will happen).



*Noise Control*​
The KPH40 is fully open. They leak in sounds from the outside world about as badly as if you wore no headphones at all. To be honest, that's actually a selling point for me, as I'm likely to wear these when I'm out and about, and the last thing I want to do is lose situational awareness. I honestly don't know how people can walk around with IEMs and other high noise isolation headphones. Aren't you afraid of literally anything in the world surprising you? That randomly speeding car that is paying more attention to his phone than the death machine they're in control of. That mugger coming up behind you. That rabid dog making a beeline straight towards you, fully intent on taking a chunk out of your behind. Really, I think IEMs in public are absolutely illogical and unsafe. So thank you Koss, for letting me stay aware of my surroundings.

As far as noise leakage out, the KPH40 leaks out as if you didn't even have them on, but really, small dynamic drivers don't tend to project very far past one room, let alone enough to really disturb anyone past 10-15 feet of you. If you close the door in the room you're in, you may as well be wearing closed headphones. You're not going to bother anyone with the KPH40. I probably wouldn't blast them at max volume in a library when sitting next to someone closer than 6 feet away, but for all other real world scenarios, I think people overestimate how much non-planar headphones leak. Compare a KPH40 to something like an Audeze LCD-2, and then tell me what noise leakage actually sounds like.



*Sound*​
_Disclaimer: My frequency tests are purely by ear through frequency tests. If you want objective, you won't find it here. This is my review, and how I personally feel about what I'm hearing. Just needed to reinforce this. My hearing perception may not match data measurements or your own perception.

Warning: The PortaPro Utility has also received an update in its rear housing design. Does it stop there, or did Koss ALSO use whatever drivers are in the KPH40 with the PortaPro utility? That's a question someone else will have to answer. For now, I'm under the assumption that the KPH40 and PortaPro sound different, simply because all the PortaPros I have owned all sounded like all my previous KSC35 and SportaPros. There is a distinction of those units being darker and more bass prominent than the KPH40 I have. IF Koss updated the PortaPro Utility to use the same drivers as the KPH40, then the tonal balance has shifted a bit towards more neutral, and not AS bass-centric and laid back. Perhaps in the future I'll try out the PortaPro utility to confirm whether they retain the old sound, or have changed. So just a word of warning. Any comparisons I make are with the KPH40 and OLDER PortaPros and its brethren. I know nothing of the new PortaPro Utility sound.

I highly doubt Koss will give anyone a solid, firm answer on whether they use the same drivers or not. So I leave it for others to measure the KPH40 and  PortaPro Utility (on the same headband/mounts for proper 1:1 comparison). Though it may be the PortaPro utility still has the old sound which (to me) is obviously different. Time will tell._

Ok, with that out of the way... how does the KPH40 sound? Putting it simply? Glorious. Koss has run this particular game for 30+ years now, and it'd be insane to think they'd fumble from the winning formula they garnered with the PortaPro. It's a little less leaning towards the bombastic PortaPro sound, but it's still very much in the family.


*Bass:*

The KPH40's bass can be heard as low as 25hz or so, but not much in terms of rumble and omnipotence. The KPH40 has an enjoyable and punchy mid bass with relatively quick decay next to the slower, fuller, more looseness found on the PortaPro and others. It's a nice balance without being bass heavy or lacking. Subjectively it seems to level out at 55hz and up. Very good presence towards lower midrange. Exceptionally volume matched. Outside of utter bassheads (which would do better with a SportaPro/PortaPro/KSC35) I doubt many people will complain about the bass representation on the KPH40. It's solid and well controlled. Something that puts headphones costing much higher to shame.

I personally prefer the darker, fuller sound of the more bass driven Porta/Sporta/35s for my bass needs, but if you're someone who wants a bit more control without verging on being 'lean', the KPH40 is the superior option, without question. It still presents bass really well, enough to do bassy genres justice. I have no complaints here. It still thumps and will make you want to dance.


*Midrange to Treble:*

Clean, well maintained presence, though a considerable dip just past 4.2khz. Most prominence between 5-6khz, with a dip at 8khz, and good, controlled treble from 9k-14k presence. The peakiness at 5-6k is the only area that I feel could be flattened/contained a bit, though it's really only a noticeable flaw in frequency tests, and doesn't come up as a problem during normal, varied listening. It does add to upper range brightness which can be heard in normal listening.

As I was accustomed to the older variants, the KPH40 does come across as a more refined, better balanced headphone. The midrange and treble presentation are just outright better in practically all aspects next to the older models. It sounds cleaner, clearer, and more vibrant, without stepping into zesty, fatiguing sound. Ultimately, again, I prefer a more laid back sound, but I think the vast majority of people will agree that the KPH40's midrange to treble presentation is a step above its predecessors.


*Soundstage and Imaging:*

This is an area I will never feel comfortable giving too many thoughts on, as I've never been too worried about soundstaging and imaging presentation of stereo/2ch sources. I mainly care if there is separation and a sense of space between notes and sonic objects, and the KPH40 does not disappoint there. With some music, it can even sound out of my head, which is all I need to be content with a headphone's soundstaging performance.

I would not expect magic with Koss drivers in terms of staging, but these do quite well. As the sound is quite open, there is no wall to stop the sound from extending into the room you're sitting in. It's not going to match the better open over ear headphones, but it can certain reach a size bigger than a lot of closed-back headphones. There's nothing overly intimate about its staging. I'd consider it medium in size overall. That's perfectly adequate for me, which in my book is an utter success.


*Sound Signature and Clarity:*

The KPH40 surpasses all other Koss variants with a very fleshed out, balanced sound without leaning too far in one direction. It still retains plenty of that Koss warmth and easy to listen nature of its peers, but it does have some sparkle and vibrancy that the PortaPros and its ilk lacked. In comparison, the others are boomy, looser sounding, with a lack of restraint. While I do find their qualities enjoyable, I do know it's of a lesser quality than the cleaner, higher fidelity sounding coming off the KPH40. It's just....better.

Depending on range, some may believe it can be bright, and some will believe it's laid back. I'd say it's a slightly lower than neutral color tonality and forwardness, but the lower treble peaks adds some bite that keeps the KPH40 from sounding overly relaxed. I can see amplification coloration making some difference to this, despite the KPH40 not needing any real amplification.

Where some find the KSC35, Portapros/Sportapros too warm, too bassy, or too smooth, the KPH40 exudes a better level of clarity and definition. Where some find the KSC75 too dry, bright or thin, the KPH40 offer a meatier, more grounded sound. The KPH40 is a solid middle ground between the others, being the bridge between their strengths, while eschewing their biggest weaknesses. The KPH40 is the true evolution of the Koss sound. Now that it exists, there's very little reason to go for the other models unless you specifically want to lean into their more extreme tonal balances.


*Amplification*​
The KPH40 can be driven by the electric output of a potato. Meaning, there's no real reason to even think twice about any amplifier you'd even consider using for the KPH40 (unless it's some OTL tube amp meant to be used for high impedance loads). If your source outputs essentially anything, the KPH40 will have more than enough supplied power. I'd worry more about the power being clean and noise-free. That's it. So if you're someone that doesn't want to utilize an external amp, then by all means, the KPH40 is for you. The old PortaPros were meant to be played by portable cassette players. Those were not powerful machines. Even at 60ohm (which some of you probably thought that sounded high next to typical 32ohm headphones), the KPH40 is very efficient. This makes the KPH40 a perfect companion. Seriously, if you have a main headphone, the KPH40 will always be a lovely secondary or tertiary headphone in part due to the effortlessness and versatility on what it sounds good off without any real power requirements.



*Gaming*​
I always had a great time with the KSC75, KSC35, Porta and Sportas, and this does not change with the KPH40. One could make the argument that the non-titanium coated Koss drivers are a bit darker and too bass focused for competitive, or serious gaming. They make great cases for fun, casual gaming, where single player, action heavy, atmospheric-driven games. They may lack in subtle nuances for the new cream of the crop online multiplayer games.

The KPH40 makes its case as a budget option that can work relatively well for those genres than the others lacked in. Now, the KPH40 isn't a complete turnaround from what made those drivers special and so beloved. It's simply more mature and articulate sounding, so details will be easier to pick out, allowing you to focus more on getting Ws.

In terms of virtual surround, I've always found all the earlier Koss drivers to sound fantastic and viable for proper surround emulation. The KPH40 doesn't change my mind. It works, and it works well. Give them a try with Dolby Headphone, Redscape Audio, Creative's SBX, SXFI, etc. They will perform admirably. They're not the BEST at rear depth like the higher level, full-sized headphones, but they works well enough where I don't feel the need to swap out for the high end.

Gaming with headphones is more than just pure sound quality. Long-session comfort in both the physical and aural sense is just as important, and that's one big area where the KPH40 triumphs. You can simply wear it all day and night with no fatigue on the neck or ear drums. The only area that may be a bit sore after a long session is the outer ears being a bit worn out from  having them pressing in all day, but with some clips, this is also something that can be mitigated.

There simply isn't much in gaming I wouldn't grab the KPH40 for.



*Personal Recommendations*​
*Media:*

The KPH40 is a great, well balanced headphone that goes well with practically anything. Yes, it may not be the ideal, critical listening headphone, but for those with realistic expectations, you'll find the KPH40 to just achieve greatness, and perform above and beyond with everything you throw at it. Games? Check. Action films? Check. Jazz? Check. Classical? Check. LoFi? Check. Really, it does not disappoint (within realistic expectations). If you're an shameless basshead, you may perhaps opt for the Koss Porta/Sporta/35 models instead. Even then, the KPH40 has plenty of bass bite, so I'm speaking of the 10% that will want more.


*Practicality:*

Are the KPH40 practical? The KPH40 may not be as portable as the KSC35 or KSC75, but it's something you can easily wear around the neck, or toss in a bag, and have zero worries about the disintegrating. They are a perfect portable solution. I love that they're fully open so you can stay aware of your surroundings. They weigh nothing. They're easy to power by anything, and they sound great on the go, or at home. It is truly a do it all headphone. The better question is why wouldn't you use the KPH40 for essentially every need? The only thing I'd probably not use a KPH40 for is air travel or on subways. Hey Koss, make some true closed-back versions, at the very least, for these kinds of environments! Not sure how, and they'd likely use some god-awful pleather pads that would ruin comfort, but I'd like to see them try.


*Who Is It For?*

Let me be clear. The KPH40 is for everyone. If you have $40, get the KPH40. Oh you own $4000 headphones? I don't care. Get the KPH40. Hell, get the KPH40, and get a KSC75 so you can use its clips for it. Then you can wear the KPH40 while laying down in bed without fear of them sliding off your ears.

The KPH40 is for all of us. I mentioned it earlier, but the KPH40 is a perfect secondary or tertiary headphone, for when you want to use a headphone in places that your main headphones don't fit, like bed, or running, or breakdancing.

The sound will appeal to essentially everyone that isn't a complete nutjob with trash ears. I'm mentioning what should be known as a fact of life. The KPH40 should be in everyone's arsenal. Even your kids. Even your grandparents. Give it to everyone in your family and friend's list. Seriously. Unless they're animals that yank on cables. Don't give those kind of people the KPH40. They don't deserve one.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes:*

Portability
Comfort
Headband
Looks/Design
Weight
Well balanced and lively + simply amazing sound
Performance to price ratio/insane value
Efficient
Great for gaming for all genres, systems, etc.

*Dislikes:*

Some peakiness between 5-6khz
Still no detachable cables where it counts (at the driver)
Frustratingly short stock cable (yanks will ensue)
The continued lack of strain relief, which will (*update: ALREADY DID*) undoubtedly lead to cable failure at some point. Koss, fix this, and fix it ASAP. FIX. IT.
Expensive optional cables that cost more than the actual headphone. (Pay someone to mod MMCX connectors instead, seriously)
Did I mention that I don't trust the connection between the cable and the drivers?


*Final Impressions*​
The KPH40 sound is exceptionally high quality at its price tier, with little to nothing being able to rival them without the cost of losing the musicality and toe-tapping engagement they bring. Sure, you can save up 40-ish dollars more for a Grado 60 series, but those are a fair bit more unwieldy, and lose the practicality. They're also far, FAR less comfortable. They may be on ear, but they may as well be full sized headphones. So really, I wouldn't put them in the same category as the KPH40.

The KPH40 certainly performs favorably all the way up to around $100, but I think the $100+ tier has some absolute bangers like the K612 Pro, and X2HR which are next level above. The KPH40 has its place below, and has no direct competition for the best sub-$100, portable open-back. Nothing but Koss offerings, all inferior to the KPH40 in general. They stand alone. You'd ask about the SHP9500 which I unfortunately haven't heard. Maybe those can give them a run for their money. I can't say. I CAN say that I bought the SHP9600, and....the less I say about it, the better. I was NOT a fan. I thought I heard muffled before. I was wrong. I digress.

I love all my Koss 'driver on a headband/clip' headphones. I will never live without one. I have a problem in that Koss has supplied a product that I can't live without. The KPH40 is the new formula that is simply better than the past iterations. Yes, the cable is too short and (likely) will break *(as it already has on mine 2 weeks after review)*, but that's what their lifetime warranty is for, if you're okay with that.

I know I said that I prefer the darker, smoother sound on the other past models (with the exception of the KSC75 which is inferior in all respects, although still fantastic on its own). However, I can't deny that the KPH40 is simply the best model overall. No question about it. For 99% of you, there is a new top choice. Throw away all your KPH30i, Sportapro, and Portapros and anything remotely near this price range. There is a new king of the budget tier. KPH40, I kneel to you.


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## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Copy my text and save it to a .txt file.  In EQ APO, on the config.txt tab, add an Control...Include, and load the txt file there.  If you hit the up arrow icon, it will open the file in another tab and you can edit the settings there.
> 
> As for the DT-990 and DT-1990, I owned the DT-990 Pro, and own the DT-1990, and my M1570 is my upgrade for the DT-1990.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll give that method a try. By the way, my assumption would be that given I feel like changes in EQ settings can negate this slight muddy-ness that the issue is not my DAC/amp and that swapping it out is not going to make a difference here. Would that be a fair assumption? Or should I expect that the headphones I'm using should sound excellent without the application of any EQ?


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## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Thanks, I'll give that method a try. By the way, my assumption would be that given I feel like changes in EQ settings can negate this slight muddy-ness that the issue is not my DAC/amp and that swapping it out is not going to make a difference here. Would that be a fair assumption? Or should I expect that the headphones I'm using should sound excellent without the application of any EQ?


No headphone is perfect, as our bodies are unique, and brains are trained to prefer different sonic signatures.  Your Atom DAC doesn't have filters does it?  If it did, you can tune your DAC to your hardware and ears.  Otherwise, for bass mud, you adjust the mid-bass region.  Changing DACs may improve things if there's an issue with your current one.  I was using a Creative G6 as a DAC for awhile, then switched to the SMSL M300 MKII.  THAT was a big difference, since I discovered that the analog stage of the G6 was rolling off low freqs, and overall the sound was grainy in comparison to the M300, which uses AKM's flagship AK4497, and a better designed analog stage.  The M300 also has filters, so I was able to select which sounded most natural to me.


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## JdeFalconr (Jan 10, 2022)

Chastity said:


> No headphone is perfect, as our bodies are unique, and brains are trained to prefer different sonic signatures.  Your Atom DAC doesn't have filters does it?  If it did, you can tune your DAC to your hardware and ears.  Otherwise, for bass mud, you adjust the mid-bass region.  Changing DACs may improve things if there's an issue with your current one.  I was using a Creative G6 as a DAC for awhile, then switched to the SMSL M300 MKII.  THAT was a big difference, since I discovered that the analog stage of the G6 was rolling off low freqs, and overall the sound was grainy in comparison to the M300, which uses AKM's flagship AK4497, and a better designed analog stage.  The M300 also has filters, so I was able to select which sounded most natural to me.


Right now I have a Sound Blaster X4 that's doing DAC and amp duties. It certainly has some functionality that adjust sound for things like gaming/movies/music/etc. as well as EQ and other sound processing options. But I've taken care to turn all that off with the exception of virtual 7.1; I've also taken care to disable processing on the Windows side as well. I happen to have an integrated PC sound card with an amplifier (Sound Blaster Z SE) so I'll try connecting my headphones direct there to see if there's a considerable difference to the sound without an EQ applied. To be clear - once I apply some EQ all of the headphones I'm trying sound great, so it's not a situation where I can't get anything up to a point where I'm happy with it. 

My ultimate concern is with establishing a proper point of reference for "how it should sound" by which I can judge my experiences in testing my gear. In a perfect world I could drop by someone's house or go to a store where their setup captures the essential qualities of some of these headphones and I could hear what they're hearing so I have that point of reference. I do fully appreciate that "how it should sound" involves some measure of personal preference/personal experience but I also assume there's an equal measure of objectivity in there as well.

Maybe I'm overthinking all of this and I'd greatly appreciate that feedback if so. I absolutely want to keep in perspective that, at the end of the day, the most important question to answer is "Which pair of headphones do I have the most fun with?" But ultimately the reason for my caution is that I'm spending a considerable amount of money and effort in this endeavor and thus I want to be sure I'm not missing out on anything.


----------



## kayan (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm trying to convince my brother to replace his dying headset (g533)with a pair of headphones for gaming. I loaned him one of my cans to use in the meantime (X2hr) in the meantime. My question is multi-faceted:

#1 - what are the best fps multiplayer games that can show off the benefit of having good headphones? We both have lots of different fps games, but he refuses to play cs go.

#2 - he hasn't given me a total budget, but my guess is probably less than 250 for the cans. Best options, in this range, to help with footsteps and other fps things. Competitiveness is his only goal. Thanks.

He doesn't want a dac/amp and doesn't want a soundcard either. He can't afford it right now, but maybe 2-3 months from now. Is getting headphones sort of pointless at that point?

He had a Shure 1540 6-8 years ago, without an amp/dac plugged directly into the headphone jack on his PC, but they stopped working and he got the g533 to replace them.


----------



## JdeFalconr

kayan said:


> I'm trying to convince my brother to replace his dying headset (g533)with a pair of headphones for gaming. I loaned him one of my cans to use in the meantime (X2hr) in the meantime. My question is multi-faceted:
> 
> #1 - what are the best fps multiplayer games that can show off the benefit of having good headphones? We both have lots of different fps games, but he refuses to play cs go.
> 
> ...


I can at least chime in that I've found this clip on YouTube that's a very interesting test for positional audio and environmental sound, especially if you like Battlefield games. I have no doubt there are other similar recordings out there too, possibly better than this one. The first part of the clip where they slowly turn is interesting but the really good stuff is about two-thirds through when they show a clip of actual multiplayer gameplay.


----------



## Chastity

kayan said:


> I'm trying to convince my brother to replace his dying headset (g533)with a pair of headphones for gaming. I loaned him one of my cans to use in the meantime (X2hr) in the meantime. My question is multi-faceted:
> 
> #1 - what are the best fps multiplayer games that can show off the benefit of having good headphones? We both have lots of different fps games, but he refuses to play cs go.
> 
> ...


What he needs is something easy to drive, so that it will run well off of a soundcard or onboard audio.  One recommendation I get for that is the Mackie MC-250, which run about $80.  The upgraded version, the MC-350, is $150.  You can also look at a set of Hifiman HE400se, if he plans to add gear later.


----------



## ronfifer (Jan 10, 2022)

kayan said:


> #1 - what are the best fps multiplayer games that can show off the benefit of having good headphones? We both have lots of different fps games, but he refuses to play cs go.
> 
> #2 - he hasn't given me a total budget, but my guess is probably less than 250 for the cans. Best options, in this range, to help with footsteps and other fps things. Competitiveness is his only goal. Thanks.
> 
> He doesn't want a dac/amp and doesn't want a soundcard either.


2 headphones with good imaging and without the need of an amp, i can suggest:

-Beyer TYGR300
-Audio Technica AD900x

I did not test the TYGR300, but i did test the AD900x, and while it delivers what he needs to perform well in competitive shooters, it does not have the best sound quality: it is grainy and congested but that is me being picky.

With an amp I would recommend:
-AKG K702
-Monolith M570
-HE4XX if on sale (cheapest option), needs a lot of power. My hunch is that the new HE400se would be slightly better but have not tried it

The K702 and M570 go up and down in price but you can find them on sale below $250.



deanorthk said:


> Thanks, will do asap


On a second thought, i dont think comparing a closed to an open back headphone is the best approach. Rule of thumb is to use open backs for open world RPG games and competitive shooters, and closed backs in all other games. But i would still apply the checklist i gave you on them if you are really wondering what to choose in a game like The Witcher 3 or Amnesia or Mass Effect.

Can you do a quick test with this video and tell me which one of the two gives a beefier and more resolved bass during cannon shots:


----------



## PurpleAngel

kayan said:


> I'm trying to convince my brother to replace his dying headset (g533)with a pair of headphones for gaming. I loaned him one of my cans to use in the meantime (X2hr) in the meantime. My question is multi-faceted:
> #1 - what are the best fps multiplayer games that can show off the benefit of having good headphones? We both have lots of different fps games, but he refuses to play cs go.
> #2 - he hasn't given me a total budget, but my guess is probably less than 250 for the cans. Best options, in this range, to help with footsteps and other fps things. Competitiveness is his only goal. Thanks.
> He doesn't want a dac/amp and doesn't want a soundcard either. He can't afford it right now, but maybe 2-3 months from now. Is getting headphones sort of pointless at that point?
> He had a Shure 1540 6-8 years ago, without an amp/dac plugged directly into the headphone jack on his PC, but they stopped working and he got the g533 to replace them.


Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphone, get them used off eBay.
Easy to drive.


----------



## Radio81

Anyone used the Porta Pro headset?
https://koss.com/products/porta-pro-headset

I've found one YT review that seems favorable of the mic being good quality.  A few comments on reddit also suggest it's a better than average mic.  I'm content with my current setup, but curious to hear opinions from this thread.


----------



## illram

Radio81 said:


> Anyone used the Porta Pro headset?
> https://koss.com/products/porta-pro-headset
> 
> I've found one YT review that seems favorable of the mic being good quality.  A few comments on reddit also suggest it's a better than average mic.  I'm content with my current setup, but curious to hear opinions from this thread.


Oh wow they make a boom mic version now? I have the Massdrop one that just has the inline mic (in the cord) and that has been perfectly fine for years of using it for work calls. No complaints from anyone. I presume the boom mic version would be perfectly fine in that case...


----------



## Radio81

illram said:


> Oh wow they make a boom mic version now? I have the Massdrop one that just has the inline mic (in the cord) and that has been perfectly fine for years of using it for work calls. No complaints from anyone. I presume the boom mic version would be perfectly fine in that case...



Yeah, not sure when it was released.  Looks pretty nice.  The mic is not detachable, but it does flex and swivel.


----------



## kayan (Jan 12, 2022)

Chastity said:


> What he needs is something easy to drive, so that it will run well off of a soundcard or onboard audio.  One recommendation I get for that is the Mackie MC-250, which run about $80.  The upgraded version, the MC-350, is $150.  You can also look at a set of Hifiman HE400se, if he plans to add gear later.





ronfifer said:


> 2 headphones with good imaging and without the need of an amp, i can suggest:
> 
> -Beyer TYGR300
> -Audio Technica AD900x
> ...





PurpleAngel said:


> Audio Technica ATH-AD700X headphone, get them used off eBay.
> Easy to drive.



Thanks for the opinions, I have passed them all on to him. We spoke last night and it seems as though he's interested in getting an amp/dac and just keeping my x2hr for a couple months until he can get better cans.

Is the Schiit stack the way to go here, or JDS Labs Atoms (or something else)? I personally have an Element 2 combo unit, which I love, so that is why I suggested the JDS stack. Which one would be best for gaming? Would it give him room to grow for the cans (whatever he gets)?

----------------------------------------

I have a question for myself too. I'm looking for a headphone upgrade for under 1k for gaming (PC) and music (alt, rapcore, 90s hip hop mostly). It will be powered by an Element 2 combo.

I currently have a Nighthawk Carbon. I like warmer sounds, nothing very bright. I'm thinking of a lcd 2c, Aeon 2 Noire, Denon 7200, Focal Celestee, or anything else really as long as they aren't bright. Thoughts?


----------



## Chastity

kayan said:


> Thanks for the opinions, I have passed them all on to him. We spoke last night and it seems as though he's interested in getting an amp/dac and just keeping my x2hr for a couple months until he can get better cans.
> 
> Is the Schiit stack the way to go here, or JDS Labs Atoms (or something else)? I personally have an Element 2 combo unit, which I love, so that is why I suggested the JDS stack. Which one would be best for gaming? Would it give him room to grow for the cans (whatever he gets)?
> 
> ...


Monolith M1570C is an option too.  i would also look at Kennerton.

As for a Schiit stack, I prefer Modi / Magni 3+ combo vs the Heresy.


----------



## tmaxx123

Has anyone been able to get the x7 to work with the xbox series x with chat audio? I shelled out a decent amount of money on a Halo edition xbox, only to find out that I hay have to buy more adapters and splitters for it to work through the xbox controller?


----------



## inseconds99

tmaxx123 said:


> Has anyone been able to get the x7 to work with the xbox series x with chat audio? I shelled out a decent amount of money on a Halo edition xbox, only to find out that I hay have to buy more adapters and splitters for it to work through the xbox controller?



Connect a PC/Max/Chromebook to the usb connection of the X7 and use the Xbox app to connect to chat. This way there are no wires to the controller at all.


----------



## tmaxx123

inseconds99 said:


> Connect a PC/Max/Chromebook to the usb connection of the X7 and use the Xbox app to connect to chat. This way there are no wires to the controller at all.


Thanks , I’ll try that. Would have been nice for Microsoft to make this a more seamless thing, as the x7 works perfect on pc, why not Xbox!? 🤦‍♂


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 15, 2022)

Chastity said:


> Monolith M1570C is an option too.  i would also look at Kennerton.
> 
> As for a Schiit stack, I prefer Modi / Magni 3+ combo vs the Heresy.


How different is the Magni 3+ to the Heresy to your ears? Just personally interested in what makes someone choose one over the other. Haven't heard either, as the last Magni I had was the first Magni 3.

I'm inclined to go with the 3+ myself on principle: it's discrete and not op-amp based. There's a staggering amount of op-amp based amplifiers in the market, so I like to experiment outside that norm.

I dunno if I mentioned it here, but I recently got the Asgard 3, and I really enjoy how it actually audible injects some warmth compared to a more linear sounding amp. It's noticeable warmer than the Jot 2. Not better, and probably technically inferior, but I really like the sound it has. Almost like what I would've expected a tube amp to sound like.

Just too bad I have a noisy system. I can only get a black background off it through the internal DAC. The RCA input has buzzing, though that's not the Asgard's fault. The Jot 2 has the same issue if I run my Modius off RCA instead of XLRs. Ground loop, etc. I'm too lazy to invest in a power conditioner or whatever. :'(

Really it's not audible in my volume range, but its definitely audible once you pass a volume threshold.


----------



## JdeFalconr

OK these M1570's are _really_ good.


----------



## deanorthk

Almost a full week now with the Audeze LCD GX, I have beein playing mostly W40K inquisitor, and tom clancy's Breakpoint. 
I'm really impresse by the sound so far, great bass, no fatiguing treble, good imaging, and with the SB X7, "surround" sound is nice. 
It's different from the TH900 of course, but I really like it.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> How different is the Magni 3+ to the Heresy to your ears? Just personally interested in what makes someone choose one over the other. Haven't heard either, as the last Magni I had was the first Magni 3.
> 
> I'm inclined to go with the 3+ myself on principle: it's discrete and not op-amp based. There's a staggering amount of op-amp based amplifiers in the market, so I like to experiment outside that norm.
> 
> ...


The Magni 3+ has a bit of the Schiit House sound, akin to the Asgard 3 but not as "tubey", and the Heresy is clean, and neutral.  In regards to the Asgard 3, they use a square wave component to add that "tubeness" tho it's not as good as using actual tubes. <3 tubes.

As for the noisy system, you can do what I did and invest in an iFi iDefender+.  (I have an earlier version)  Since my DAC is self powered, I just use the dongle to isolate PC USB power.  Works great.  Nice, dark background, no hiss.  If your DAC needs power, you connect the dongle to an outside 5v USB power source.

You can also try a self-powered USB hub.



JdeFalconr said:


> OK these M1570's are _really_ good.


What, no impressions?    Do you use EQ?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> What, no impressions?    Do you use EQ?


Don't worry! You'll get them. I haven't gotten back to the system-wide EQ yet but I want to. In BF2042 it's been good without and I've just used Winamp's built-in EQ for music.


----------



## ronfifer

deanorthk said:


> Almost a full week now with the Audeze LCD GX, I have beein playing mostly W40K inquisitor, and tom clancy's Breakpoint.
> I'm really impresse by the sound so far, great bass, no fatiguing treble, good imaging, and with the SB X7, "surround" sound is nice.
> It's different from the TH900 of course, but I really like it.


Say while playing a single player game which one is more immersive, has better rumble, and more details? What is the main difference between the two?


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 17, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Don't worry! You'll get them. I haven't gotten back to the system-wide EQ yet but I want to. In BF2042 it's been good without and I've just used Winamp's built-in EQ for music.


I did the music impressions this evening and about halfway through I realized that I'm spending 3.5 hours doing a musical performance comparison of nine different songs for four different headphones when I'm going to be spending far more time gaming with them than I will be listening to music. 😬 But it was surprisingly fun and informative. I gotta tell you those MC450s have grown on me considerably, I swear the more I hear them the more I find to like. They sure don't like The Offspring, though.

I was amazed to find that out of all the songs I used No Time for Caution from the Interstellar soundtrack was reproduced VERY differently by each of the four headphones. All of the other songs had variations but not nearly to the same extent.

I'm going to do one more round of gaming comparison (considering, you know, that's why I'm going through all of this) and then post a final writeup of it all.


----------



## deanorthk

ronfifer said:


> Say while playing a single player game which one is more immersive, has better rumble, and more details? What is the main difference between the two?


Well, I haven't had enough time to focus on those, but the main and huge difference between the two is confort. the GX seems like it has no weight on your head, where the TH900mk2 after 20mn or so make me feel like I have to move it. For long session of gaming, there is a clear winner between the two, and it's the GX.


----------



## ronfifer

JdeFalconr said:


> I did the music impressions this evening and about halfway through I realized that I'm spending 3.5 hours doing a musical performance comparison of nine different songs for four different headphones when I'm going to be spending far more time gaming with them than I will be listening to music. 😬 But it was surprisingly fun and informative. I gotta tell you those MC450s have grown on me considerably, I swear the more I hear them the more I find to like. They sure don't like The Offspring, though.
> 
> I was amazed to find that out of all the songs I used No Time for Caution from the Interstellar soundtrack was reproduced VERY differently by each of the four headphones. All of the other songs had variations but not nearly to the same extent.
> 
> I'm going to do one more round of gaming comparison (considering, you know, that's why I'm going through all of this) and then post a final writeup of it all.


I am only speaking for myself but maybe you can keep the music impressions short as this is a gaming thread mainly.


----------



## JdeFalconr

@mad


ronfifer said:


> I am only speaking for myself but maybe you can keep the music impressions short as this is a gaming thread mainly.


Yes you're right, thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 17, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> @mad
> 
> Yes you're right, thanks for the reminder.


I want the music impressions too!

In other news, Redscape has been updated to 1.4.1, no changelog yet


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> I want the music impressions too!
> 
> In other news, Redscape has been updated to 1.4.1, no changelog yet


Don't worry, I'm going to put them into a separate post.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 18, 2022)

@Chastity what's your feeling on the clamp of the M1570's? At first it didn't bother me but the more I wear them the more I'm feeling distinct pressure around my ears. Not quite sure what to do about it. I'll try the fabric pads though I'm a bit concerned on how they'll change the sound. Then again just about everything I'm reading online is that people feel these don't have _enough_ clamp and they fall off the head, so maybe the fabrics will not be a big deal.

EDIT: I measured and it looks like the circumference of my head at the temples is 23" so I'm not entirely freakish.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> @Chastity what's your feeling on the clamp of the M1570's? At first it didn't bother me but the more I wear them the more I'm feeling distinct pressure around my ears. Not quite sure what to do about it. I'll try the fabric pads though I'm a bit concerned on how they'll change the sound. Then again just about everything I'm reading online is that people feel these don't have _enough_ clamp and they fall off the head, so maybe the fabrics will not be a big deal.
> 
> EDIT: I measured and it looks like the circumference of my head at the temples is 23" so I'm not entirely freakish.


The pads probably still need to break in.  Leather will eventually conform to your head.  Helps if you keep the leather conditioned.  I use leather cleaning wipes for this.  I also prefer having some clamp.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Ok here's my music impressions post on the MC450 vs M1570 vs HE400SE vs DT990. I'll do a separate gaming impressions post soon and put it in the video games forum so I don't clog up this thread more than I already have.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mc450-vs-m1570-vs-he400se-vs-dt990-music-impressions.961699/


----------



## JdeFalconr

Out of pure curiosity: what would have the musical prowess and soundstage of the M1570's with the sharper, responsive sound of the MC450's? Does such a thing exist anywhere close to $400? Like I said, just curious.


----------



## Chastity (Jan 19, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Ok here's my music impressions post on the MC450 vs M1570 vs HE400SE vs DT990. I'll do a separate gaming impressions post soon and put it in the video games forum so I don't clog up this thread more than I already have.
> 
> https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mc450-vs-m1570-vs-he400se-vs-dt990-music-impressions.961699/


Did you try my EQ in EQ APO?  Also there's a very nice M1570 thread here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ack-balanced-planar-headphones.915053/page-48


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Did you try my EQ in EQ APO?  Also there's a very nice M1570 thread here:  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...ack-balanced-planar-headphones.915053/page-48


Thank you! I plan to revisit the EQ settings you sent me, I haven't had time to dig into it to be honest as that application is fairly complex. I just used the Sound Blaster EQ to make some quick adjustments.

I saw that thread last night while browsing, I had a question about mics for the headphones so I'll post there.


----------



## duranxv

ronfifer said:


> Say while playing a single player game which one is more immersive, has better rumble, and more details? What is the main difference between the two?



The TH900 is one of the best headphones for immersive gaming in its price class.  The bass has a "crap your pants" quality to it in that it hits hard and rumbles nicely.  Comfort can be improved by swapping the stock pads with Dekoni elite hybrids.  I was able to wear them all day without discomfort.

I use a Verite Closed now for gaming, but there are still some times I miss my TH900.  If Fostex ever comes out with a TH1000, I'll be the first in line to buy it.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Jan 20, 2022)

Here's my gaming impressions post for MC450 vs M1570 vs HE400SE vs DT990. Again, thanks to everyone for the help and support in this whole process!

EDIT: I think I've made a final determination on the M1570's but I have some nagging concerns about comfort and sound signature and so I want to make sure they're my best option within my budget for my preferences. Can anyone recommend something like these except with a more "neutral" sound instead of the warm, dark tones? Or is that something that can be managed entirely by EQ? 

Now that I've tasted this level of quality I'm willing to throw a bit more money at the problem, maybe up to $500 or thereabouts. If the answer is that the M1570's are as good as it's going to get without a huge price increase then I absolutely don't want "perfect" to get in the way of "very good" here and I think they could work. I just would rather spend the time now than burn $400 and find myself wishing for something different not long after.

Based on what I was reading someday I may splurge on the LCD-GX but at this point I can't justify nearly $1k on headphones. I read @Mad Lust Envy 's writeup on the Shure 1840's but those seemed like poor all-rounders.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

duranxv said:


> The TH900 is one of the best headphones for immersive gaming in its price class.  The bass has a "crap your pants" quality to it in that it hits hard and rumbles nicely.  Comfort can be improved by swapping the stock pads with Dekoni elite hybrids.  I was able to wear them all day without discomfort.
> 
> I use a Verite Closed now for gaming, but there are still some times I miss my TH900.  If Fostex ever comes out with a TH1000, I'll be the first in line to buy it.


I'd get one again if they just removed that really sizzly treble. Loved everything else.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Here's my gaming impressions post for MC450 vs M1570 vs HE400SE vs DT990. Again, thanks to everyone for the help and support in this whole process!
> 
> EDIT: I think I've made a final determination on the M1570's but I have some nagging concerns about comfort and sound signature and so I want to make sure they're my best option within my budget for my preferences. Can anyone recommend something like these except with a more "neutral" sound instead of the warm, dark tones? Or is that something that can be managed entirely by EQ?
> 
> ...


The planars take to EQ well.  I gather you are having a problem with setting up EQ APO?


----------



## ronfifer

duranxv said:


> The TH900 is one of the best headphones for immersive gaming in its price class.  The bass has a "crap your pants" quality to it in that it hits hard and rumbles nicely.  Comfort can be improved by swapping the stock pads with Dekoni elite hybrids.  I was able to wear them all day without discomfort.
> 
> I use a Verite Closed now for gaming, but there are still some times I miss my TH900.  If Fostex ever comes out with a TH1000, I'll be the first in line to buy it.


Can you please do a quick test with this video and tell me which one of the two gives a beefier and more resolved bass during cannon shots:


----------



## duranxv

ronfifer said:


> Can you please do a quick test with this video and tell me which one of the two gives a beefier and more resolved bass during cannon shots:




I don't have my TH900 anymore to compare   But if I were to operate from memory, I think the TH900 would give more powerful bass, while the VC's bass would be a bit tighter and the sound overall more holographic and spacious.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'd get one again if they just removed that really sizzly treble. Loved everything else.



Nothing a little EQ can't fix   I found swapping out the stock pads with Dekoni Elite Hybrids and putting in bass attenuator rings in those pads helped quite a bit.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> The planars take to EQ well.  I gather you are having a problem with setting up EQ APO?


Holy beans. Your EQ settings make Audioslave sound over-the-top amazing. Chris Cornell's voice is perfect.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Holy beans. Your EQ settings make Audioslave sound over-the-top amazing. Chris Cornell's voice is perfect.


On the EQ, you use the 3 Shelf PEQ to adjust the bass and mids/treble levels to your tastes.  I added a little more mids dB to make the vocals pop, which was something I noticed they do when they have no EQ applied.  When EQ'd, the M1570 become amazing, and very entry-level summit-fi quality, and the vocals are VERY natural sounding.  The imaging is also impecable, and you can imagine the placement inside the recording room easily.  These features also work for gaming, and I can easily hunt by sound.


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone I currently have the hifiman deva not sure how I feel about them, but I was wondering would you recommend the sound blaster gc7 or another virtual solution for surround sound. I mostly play open world games, mmos 

Thanks


----------



## ronfifer

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I currently have the hifiman deva not sure how I feel about them, but I was wondering would you recommend the sound blaster gc7 or another virtual solution for surround sound. I mostly play open world games, mmos
> 
> Thanks


Tried software solutions like: Redscape, Dolby Atmos for Headphones, DTS Unbound? More than good enough for all my gaming needs with stereo headphones.


----------



## duranxv

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I currently have the hifiman deva not sure how I feel about them, but I was wondering would you recommend the sound blaster gc7 or another virtual solution for surround sound. I mostly play open world games, mmos
> 
> Thanks



Redscape is all you need.  I've tried every other VSS option, and Redscape blows them all away.  Well worth every penny.

Question for the Redscape users:  What do you set your Room setting to when gaming?  I've been finding 25% has been a good balance, but curious if anyone's tried 0% or 50+%


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2022)

My 2080TI is essentially dead. 


If anyone wants to be a friend and find me a non-heavily scalper priced 3080 12gb, 3080ti or 3090, please let me know.

You'd be my savior.


----------



## Nooro

Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some help making a decision on headphones to buy. 
I'm pretty new to the audiophile/HiFi moneysink, but since my old cheap gamery headset broke recently I figured I'd take the dive. I bought the X2HR on black friday to get a feel for what kind of sound I like, and now I'd like to take a deeper dive. 
I'll be using the headphones mostly for gaming, listening to music while working, and taking work calls (working from home). The gaming is mostly single-player games or "small" multiplayer games with friends. So immersion and "awesome" sound is more important than pin-point imaging accuracy. 

I've been reading up a lot on headphones and gone to a local HiFi store to listen, and I've taken a liking to both the *LCD-2 classic* and the *Sundara*. The bass on the sundara is on the weak side, though.  
Also, I'm eying the *LCD-GX* as well since it has a boom mic and is lighter than the LCD-2 classics (and also I can buy it second hand 1,5 years old for 450 euro). However, the LCD-GX isn't available for me to listen to, so I can't know whether I'll like it or not. The bass according to reviews seems to have less slam than the LCD-2 classics, but I figure that some EQ can sort most of that out hopefully. I also saw on a review that it can have some sibilance issues, which has me worried. 
I actually got to borrow the Sundara from a friend for a week, so any comparisons to the Sundara are appreciated. 

One last note, I sit at the computer quite a bit and that can lead to my neck stiffing up quite a bit. This makes me worried about the weight on the LCD-2 classics. I've tried attaching weights on my X2HR to simulate the weight of the LCD-2 classics, but it's hard to tell what the effect is over time. 


*Budget* - Roughly 800 euro

*Source/Amp* - SoundBlasterX G6

*How the gear will be used* - Home listening. Gaming and mostly electronic music while working.

*Preferred tonal balance* - Bass head. Brighter headphones can be fatiguing, and sibilance is an issue.

*Preferred music genre(s)* - Electronic music like Daft Punk, Deadmau5.

*Past* *gear experience* - X2HR. Nice bass, fatiguing and sibilance issues.


----------



## stavros.m

duranxv said:


> Redscape is all you need.  I've tried every other VSS option, and Redscape blows them all away.  Well worth every penny.
> 
> Question for the Redscape users:  What do you set your Room setting to when gaming?  I've been finding 25% has been a good balance, but curious if anyone's tried 0% or 50+%


Hey thank how would you compare redscape to waves nx in your opinion 

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 23, 2022)

Nooro said:


> Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some help making a decision on headphones to buy.
> I'm pretty new to the audiophile/HiFi moneysink, but since my old cheap gamery headset broke recently I figured I'd take the dive. I bought the X2HR on black friday to get a feel for what kind of sound I like, and now I'd like to take a deeper dive.
> I'll be using the headphones mostly for gaming, listening to music while working, and taking work calls (working from home). The gaming is mostly single-player games or "small" multiplayer games with friends. So immersion and "awesome" sound is more important than pin-point imaging accuracy.
> 
> ...




LCD2 Classic has prolific sub bass representation but it's not boosted, it's ruler flat. So either EQ if you want "more" bass or get something like a E-mu Teak. Though it's also has some fatiguing treble if you found the X2HR fatiguing.

GX has less bass presence than the 2C if just a little so you'll want to EQ bass in on that as well.


----------



## Nooro

Ok, sounds then like both the 2 classic and the GX should be suitable for gaming. I hear that the imaging on the 2 classic isn't the best, but that doesn't matter very much to me i think.
I'll keep strapping this can of corn to the X2HR and see if I can get used to the weight


----------



## Chastity

Nooro said:


> Ok, sounds then like both the 2 classic and the GX should be suitable for gaming. I hear that the imaging on the 2 classic isn't the best, but that doesn't matter very much to me i think.
> I'll keep strapping this can of corn to the X2HR and see if I can get used to the weight


I think the GX is your best option, especially since you want a mic option, especially at the price you are getting it at.  Just remember to clean any ear cups and headbands when you get used.    I also believe the mic cable can be used on other Audeze models if you ever upgrade.


----------



## deanorthk

Mad Lust Envy said:


> LCD2 Classic has prolific sub bass representation but it's not boosted, it's ruler flat. So either EQ if you want "more" bass or get something like a E-mu Teak. Though it's also has some fatiguing treble if you found the X2HR fatiguing.
> 
> GX has less bass presence than the 2C if just a little so you'll want to EQ bass in on that as well.


What I like about the bass presence in the GX is the fact it's firm, shaped accuratly, not bloating or boomy, but tense. I was playing 1 hours full of Warhammer 40K inquisitor, and I liked a lot the way the explosion, weapon firing were bass intensive, but very readable. But indeed, if I compare it to the TH900, the bass presence is different, the TH900 seems more explosive. But then again, sound is not everything in a gaming headphone, comfort matters, or maybe I say that because I'm nearly bold


----------



## Chastity

deanorthk said:


> maybe I say that because I'm nearly bold


Hair is the enemy of a good seal


----------



## deanorthk

Nooro said:


> Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some help making a decision on headphones to buy.
> I'm pretty new to the audiophile/HiFi moneysink, but since my old cheap gamery headset broke recently I figured I'd take the dive. I bought the X2HR on black friday to get a feel for what kind of sound I like, and now I'd like to take a deeper dive.
> I'll be using the headphones mostly for gaming, listening to music while working, and taking work calls (working from home). The gaming is mostly single-player games or "small" multiplayer games with friends. So immersion and "awesome" sound is more important than pin-point imaging accuracy.
> 
> ...


I'm using it with soundbaster X7, and it's... NICE  very easy to tame if I dare say so. And at 450€... no hesitation, I paid full price, and even there, I have no regret.


----------



## duranxv

stavros.m said:


> Hey thank how would you compare redscape to waves nx in your opinion
> 
> Thanks



Waves NX is the only one I didn't use.  Apparently, I don't think they update/support it anymore, so I didn't bother.  However, I think @Mad Lust Envy mentioned earlier in the thread that he prefers Redscape over Waves NX


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Hey thank how would you compare redscape to waves nx in your opinion
> 
> Thanks


Waves NX is pretty easy to calibrate for best results, since you input you measurements direct.  Redscape, you have to guess.

Problem with Waves NX is that Waves is no longer selling licenses, so you'd have to use warez edition, or use someone's key.

Of the two, I prefer Redscape, especially since the app has more polish to it.


----------



## Nooro (Jan 24, 2022)

deanorthk said:


> What I like about the bass presence in the GX is the fact it's firm, shaped accuratly, not bloating or boomy, but tense. I was playing 1 hours full of Warhammer 40K inquisitor, and I liked a lot the way the explosion, weapon firing were bass intensive, but very readable. But indeed, if I compare it to the TH900, the bass presence is different, the TH900 seems more explosive. But then again, sound is not everything in a gaming headphone, comfort matters, or maybe I say that because I'm nearly bold


Haha. Same here about the baldness. Looking forward to a good seal! 

Do you by any chance know how the Sundaras bass compares to the LCD-GX? Is it more or less? Different somehow?

Regardless, I'm planning on buying the iFi Zen CAN (to be used with my SGB G6) to up the bass


----------



## deanorthk

Nooro said:


> Haha. Same here about the baldness. Looking forward to a good seal!
> 
> Do you by any chance know how the Sundaras bass compares to the LCD-GX? Is it more or less? Different somehow?
> 
> Regardless, I'm planning on buying the iFi Zen CAN (to be used with my SGB G6) to up the bass


Sadly no, I didn't had the chance to test a lot of headphones so far, though now that I live in France, I hope I will ^^
Enjoy!! 
i'm listening to the the test of the latest Mustang Shelby on youtube, and the roar is... WAHOU


----------



## Scratchansniff

I'm looking for another gaming headset/headphones, I am currently on the Series X and prefer wireless due to wired having to use the controller jack to power any wired one right now. I owned the Audeze Penrose but it broke like literally snapped. I am looking for one which has the maximum comfort and at the very least decent sound for fps gaming. Does anyone have any suggestions?.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 24, 2022)

Scratchansniff said:


> I'm looking for another gaming headset/headphones, I am currently on the Series X and prefer wireless due to wired having to use the controller jack to power any wired one right now. I owned the Audeze Penrose but it broke like literally snapped. I am looking for one which has the maximum comfort and at the very least decent sound for fps gaming. Does anyone have any suggestions?.


Contact us at support@audeze.com, I'll look into your case tomorrow. Just title it attn Christian, Headfier with Penrose. You may have to contact your local distributor if you bought local.


----------



## Scratchansniff

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Contact us at support@audeze.com, I'll look into your case tomorrow. Just title it attn Christian, Headfier with Penrose. You may have to contact your local distributor if you bought local.


I did it's out of warranty with them I am afraid I am trying to decide whether to get another Penrose or something else, So far nothing has come close to the Penrose for sound quality.


----------



## Radio81 (Jan 25, 2022)

Scratchansniff said:


> I did it's out of warranty with them I am afraid I am trying to decide whether to get another Penrose or something else, So far nothing has come close to the Penrose for sound quality.


This one might be decent.  https://www.eposaudio.com/en/us/gam...low-latency-connection-gaming-headset-1000892

Edit:  Nevermind, I don't see Xbox support


----------



## Playstation (Jan 25, 2022)

has anyone tried suede pads? and are they better than velour? if yes, how so? do suede pads breathe? is suede rough on the ears?

i tried the sheepskins on my he 4xx. though, the sheepskin is soft and comfortable, they cling to my ears as they get hot. i might even sell my he 4xx with the sheepskin pads. too heavy, too clingy.

who knew i would go back to my x2hr's. so, i am considering getting the dekoni suede or velour pads for my x2hr's. all i care about is comfort now, and, the x2hr's are more comfortable than any other headphones i have tried.

as for the velour pads. is it safe to assume dekoni or brainwaves make a better velour pad than what came stock on the x2hr's?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scratchansniff said:


> I did it's out of warranty with them I am afraid I am trying to decide whether to get another Penrose or something else, So far nothing has come close to the Penrose



Please send us a message. We'll see what we can do for you.


----------



## Radio81

Playstation said:


> has anyone tried suede pads? and are they better than velour? if yes, how so? do suede pads breathe? is suede rough on the ears?
> 
> i tried the sheepskins on my he 4xx. though, the sheepskin is soft and comfortable, they cling to my ears as they get hot. i might even sell my he 4xx with the sheepskin pads. too heavy, too clingy.
> 
> ...



I've tried the Dekoni choice suede on the X2HR and did not care for the sound alterations.  They are comfortable, breathe similar to stock pads, but they elevate & muddy the bass too much.  If they were closer to stock depth, they'd be great.  Can't speak for the velour, but I believe they are similar thickness as the suede.

I do prefer the feel of the suede vs stock Philips velour.  But Philips velour is not great.

I like these pads below better than the Dekoni.  They are 30mm thick but they aren't as dense, and compress well.  The hybrid works well with pleather on the interior and velour on the outside.  Bass is elevated slightly, but not muddy.  I posted a pic of them in the X2HR thread, but you will need pad adapters or reuse the stock pad rings.  I had a set of pad adapters 3D printed for around $7.  Here are the pads:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089F5BFG5?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

With the stock pad rings you can also run a better velour pad like a Shure 1840.  The 1840 is the closest thing I've found to a stock X2HR pad depth & sound but with a softer feel.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Like a self fulfilling prophecy,

The KPH40's right side driver already went dead.

As you can probably surmise, just as I mentioned on my review, this likely means the cable contact separated from the drivers.

Record setting pace for the cable defect.

So the fancy, swappable cables means jack squat in the face of an issue up the chain and next to the driver.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Like a self fulfilling prophecy,
> 
> The KPH40's right side driver already went dead.
> 
> ...


But the cables are swappable! What a great feature!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 28, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> But the cables are swappable! What a great feature!


I'd laugh at the irony of having a swappable cable when we've all asked for such a thing for so many years, with Koss misconstruing what we meant,  giving us the cable swap in the WRONG place.

However, I'm all out of patience with this issue. It's happened to literally every. Single. Koss. I've owned.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'd laugh at the irony of having a swappable cable when we've all asked for such a thing for so many years, with Koss misconstruing what we meant,  giving us the cable swap in the WRONG place.
> 
> However, I'm all out of patience with this issue. It's happened to literally every. Single. Koss. I've owned.


Time for some soldering.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Chastity said:


> Time for some soldering.


Gonna see if the guy who MMCX mods my stuff will do this one. If not,  gonna have to find someone willing to solder, because I'm not that guy, pal, trust me, I'm not that guy.


----------



## Trancefreak

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My 2080TI is essentially dead.
> 
> 
> If anyone wants to be a friend and find me a non-heavily scalper priced 3080 12gb, 3080ti or 3090, please let me know.
> ...



I read this once every moon. a recent GPU that 'died'. How is that? My GPU's usually last more that 10-15 years ( if I keep them that long )
Can you give more info? I *might* help.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Thoughts on DT900 ProX for PS5 & XsX with 3D audio? Has anyone tested out? Apologies if I missed it!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Trancefreak said:


> I read this once every moon. a recent GPU that 'died'. How is that? My GPU's usually last more that 10-15 years ( if I keep them that long )
> Can you give more info? I *might* help.


After multiple DDU and reinstalls, updates, etc, anytime any 3D application starts, it soon crashes the program/game. Only 3D. Using the igpu, no issues, so it's def on the card.


----------



## revolutionz

Mad Lust Envy said:


> After multiple DDU and reinstalls, updates, etc, anytime any 3D application starts, it soon crashes the program/game. Only 3D. Using the igpu, no issues, so it's def on the card.


Could try taking it apart and replacing the thermal pads/thermal paste and cleaning out the heatsink


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Like a self fulfilling prophecy,
> 
> The KPH40's right side driver already went dead.
> 
> ...



As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for"


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

revolutionz said:


> Could try taking it apart and replacing the thermal pads/thermal paste and cleaning out the heatsink


Hahaha, I'm def not that guy. I'd lose every screw, ding the heatsink, eat the thermal paste, and then die of cancer trying to do any DIY.


----------



## Trancefreak

Mad Lust Envy said:


> After multiple DDU and reinstalls, updates, etc, anytime any 3D application starts, it soon crashes the program/game. Only 3D. Using the igpu, no issues, so it's def on the card.


In this GPU scarcity, you might want to simply give your PC to a PC service for maintenance: Repasting and de-dusting as mentioned before

My story: 2 GPU's later I figured out that the cards were absolutely fine but... Windows automatic driver updates screwed me over *in combination* with a bad DP cable .
And no, you hardly stop windows installing newer ( but faulty ) drivers behind your back.

- Used a Club3D cable ( higher quality than monitor supplied)
- Used Display Driver Uninstaller, manually installing AMD WHQL drivers 
Fixed. I then owned a RX480 4Gb and RX5500 4GB as spares, lol.

You card is most likely fine, so I think 
I wouldn't like you to throw away a perfectly good card in these times.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, I'm most likely going to get the card hopefully repaired. However, if the thing is busted, and I wasted money.... ugh, I just....no.''

I hate 2022.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I hate 2022.


As you sit there listening on your set of LCD-5's


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jan 31, 2022)

Chastity said:


> As you sit there listening on your set of LCD-5's


Lol, ironically, I don't sit here listening to any headphones. LCD-5 included. I hardly touch any of my headphones except my Koss clip ons.

I listen to my desktop speakers (some Presonus Eris 4.5s) 90% of the time. The rest is my clip ons, and sometimes I'll use LCD-5, LCD2C.

Why? General laziness. Koss is mainly just convenience as they're like not wearing anything at all.

Late at night if I'm playing games, I'll put the LCD-5s on unless I'mn just not in the mood, then I'll use the clip ons, again.

I'm gonna push for some Audesze clip on planars, that aren't in-ear a few years, down the line. If mainly just for my own benefit.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 1, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, I'm most likely going to get the card hopefully repaired. However, if the thing is busted, and I wasted money.... ugh, I just....no.''
> 
> 
> Trancefreak said:
> ...


Oh I can relate. Early 2020-ish my computer began to hard-lock (100% unresponsive) while turning the monitors back on after turning them off for power save; no bluescreen, no errors in Event Log; it just locked up and only the power button would bring it back. It was clearly something with hardware so I started with a new power supply (and RMA'd the old one), got new RAM, RMA'd then replaced the motherboard, swapped the CPU, did a clean Windows install just for kicks, changed BIOS settings...no effect. I RMA'd my video card, finding that there was some kind of liquid damage on the underside from some kind of leakage. That helped but on rare occasions the problem still happened. Finally I swapped my ten-year-old sound card, of all things, and the problem almost entirely went away.

Now it's happened perhaps once or twice in the last six months and I can deal with it when it does. My theory now is that the problem actually has to do with the fact that one of my monitors "winks" - turns off and on again briefly whenever I get up from my chair. It sounds crazy but I found that it's actually a real phenomena, especially with DisplayPort cables (of which I have some long ones) and gas-lift chairs. (I'm not crazy. Also here's the White Paper). I wouldn't at all be surprised if there was some poor shielding or my longer cables are subject to some kind of EMI that's causing enough of a problem to lock up the computer.

So the point of that lengthy story is that 9 out of 10 times your normal technical troubleshooting process is going to nail the cause. That 10th time it's going to drive you crazy and end up being some crazy-ass thing no person would ever have conceived of.


----------



## halcyon

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, I'm most likely going to get the card hopefully repaired. However, if the thing is busted, and I wasted money.... ugh, I just....no.''
> 
> I hate 2022.



Join the club. Have ordered 2 GFX cards in 2020 and am yet to receive either. Have participated in lotteries and nanosecond flash-sales for 1.5 years and gotten zero cards.

Things MIGHT get slightly better in 2023, IFF crypto prices (and speculation) stay depressed.

So, my spare gfx card is from 2013... Not going to pay 2.5x prices due to crypto speculation.


----------



## JdeFalconr

EVGA has a queue system where you register with them and sign up in a queue. It might be months but you'll get an opportunity to buy a card at MSRP.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 2, 2022)

I contacted LaptopMD who says they charge $450 MINIMUM pre-approval, and that doesn't even include shipping to them.

This is bordering on me just saying forget it and praying for more luck. What a farce.

$500+ to fix a card is just... that should be criminal. But hey it's only $95 if they DON'T fix it.

I'm gonna call the local shops to see if it's any better. I remember a few years ago fixing a scufed laptop for $200 to repaste, clean and debug all issues.

Those were the times.

Newegg Shuffle has also been an absolute bust. Bot protection my arse. I'm sure scalpers and miners are saturating the Shuffle with a million entries.


----------



## Chastity

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I contacted LaptopMD who says they charge $450 MINIMUM pre-approval, and that doesn't even include shipping to them.
> 
> This is bordering on me just saying forget it and praying for more luck. What a farce.
> 
> ...


Back in Jan 2020 my gamer laptop died, and it was cost prohibitive to repair it, so I decided to rebuild my desktop system.  Built a nice AMD 3600 setup.  At the time I had a R9 390, and I debated spending the extra $429 for a Sapphire Nitro+ 5700XT.  I decided to do it, to get the RDNA benefits.  Boy, am I glad I did, since you know what happened 2-3 months later.


----------



## Chastity (Feb 2, 2022)

Thought you all might enjoy this.  IEMs for gaming is an interesting concept.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Thought you all might enjoy this.  IEMs for gaming is an interesting concept.



Haven't watched the whole video yet but I will say the KZ ZST's have excellent detail, especially for under $20. Pre-pandemic I would play Switch games on the bus during my commute and the ZST was my go-to.


----------



## Radio81

The issue for me with IEMs and gaming is chat.  In order for the IEM to sound best, there needs to be a seal.  If you've ever tried to carry on a conversation with IEMs, it's like that.  Can't really hear myself talk.

Noise cancelling IEMs with an ambient sound passthrough option work better in that regard.  I've used Sony BT IEMs with ambient sound mode, along with a head-worn mic on PS4/PS5. 

I like the idea of this product for an IEM gaming headset, but the reviews are meh:
https://www.amazon.com/Razer-Ifrit-Professional-Duo-Streaming-Broadcaster/dp/B07HRG7HV9

I'd say most IEMs I've tried work well for about an hour, then I need to remove them for a few minutes due to discomfort or annoyance in the ear canal.  I don't have that issue with full size headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2022)

My life would've been so much simpler if I could stand wearing IEMs.

I can't.

I also don't like how they hard pan unlike normal headphones. I think IEMs for me would need a certain level of cross feed just for comfort's sake. It's actually audibly uncomfortable to listen to IEMs as well, for me.

That's one huge benefit of virtual surround DSP... the crossfeed. People talk about how virtual surround sounds fake, but nothing is more fake than the sound of headphones. Real world hearing has everything crossfeed between both ears, not just one.


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My life would've been so much simpler if I could stand wearing IEMs.


Have you tried custom IEMs?  For me, it was a big revelation!


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 3, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My life would've been so much simpler if I could stand wearing IEMs.
> 
> I can't.
> 
> ...


Speaking personally IEMs rarely fit right and it's an enormous pain to find tips that will stay in with a good seal. 100% of stock tips that come with IEMs don't fit me. What helped tremendously was when I learned my ear canals are apparently oddly-shaped (or at least according to a doctor who was looking while getting examined for the flu). I have to use the absolute largest-diameter size of Comply tips and only then can I get them to seal properly and stay in my ears for more than a minute. Could it be something similar with you?

@Zachik had a spot-on suggestion with custom ear tips. You can find them online relatively easily in the range of $150 give or take. Alternatively UE now makes wireless earbuds that actually let you create the custom-fit tips by yourself in-home. Everything I've read about custom tips agrees with Zachik in that they apparently will give you a dramatic improvement in comfort and sound quality. Of course the other side is the expense of custom tips as compared to the cost of whatever IEMs you're using them with.


----------



## Trancefreak

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Yeah, I'm most likely going to get the card hopefully repaired. However, if the thing is busted, and I wasted money.... ugh, I just....no.''
> 
> I hate 2022.


Bud, If I lived close to you I'd do that for free ( I like restoring shtuff ).
Alas, I'm in Belgium. 

I hope you find a solution and don't throw the card out just yet!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 3, 2022)

It's that and I don't like how much they isolate noise. I'm actually not a fan of being closed off from external noises. Is that weird?

So today's Newegg Shuffle actually accepted me, but it's for a 3070ti with a mouse. I didn't even notice it was a 3070ti... I thought I clicked on 3080s and above. FML.

I don't wanna spend another $1100 on a card that is marginally better than the one I have. With less VRAM to boot. Removed...


----------



## AxelCloris

The occlusion effect is what kills most IEMs for gaming with me. If they're fully open back IEMs then there's a decent chance I can work around it, but most offerings out there are either fully closed or only partially open.


----------



## Zachik

JdeFalconr said:


> @Zachik had a spot-on suggestion with custom ear tips. You can find them online relatively easily in the range of $150 give or take. Alternatively UE now makes wireless earbuds that actually let you create the custom-fit tips by yourself in-home. Everything I've read about custom tips agrees with Zachik in that they apparently will give you a dramatic improvement in comfort and sound quality. Of course the other side is the expense of custom tips as compared to the cost of whatever IEMs you're using them with.


I was actually referring to custom IEM. Not custom tips. 
BUT... custom tips work, too


----------



## Chastity

I have a hard time using silicone tips, I even tried Spinfits and that did not work well.  What does work for me are Memory Foam tips. (I get mine from Tennmak)  Their tips are dense memory foam, roll up and stay like that for a decent amount of tiime so you don't have to rush getting them in, and then they expand and sit comfy, with great holding power and isolation. $7 for a dozen tips.  Oh, and they don't tear, at all.


----------



## Rozzko

I heard that CA Andromeda is very good for gaming. From those who have hd800 and different types of headphones. 

========

Hey, what the next step in gaming dac from G6? I play only on PS5 and don’t need extra VSS,  I like tempest. What will give me better quality? I want hell2 but I read that it has got some build quality problems.


----------



## pervysage

Rozzko said:


> I heard that CA Andromeda is very good for gaming. From those who have hd800 and different types of headphones.
> 
> ========
> 
> Hey, what the next step in gaming dac from G6? I play only on PS5 and don’t need extra VSS,  I like tempest. What will give me better quality? I want hell2 but I read that it has got some build quality problems.



I'm sure some IEM's with bass on the lighter side would do great with gaming.

I once tried my CA Vega's for gaming and couldn't hear a thing over all the explosions and gun shots, haha (too much BASSSSSS)


----------



## stavros.m

Hey everyone I am seeing a lot of reviews for competitive gaming but what are your go to headphones for open world, survival and mmo style games 

Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 7, 2022)

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I am seeing a lot of reviews for competitive gaming but what are your go to headphones for open world, survival and mmo style games
> 
> Thanks


Usually the fun/casual category of headphones.

Casual gaming is a lot easier to shop around for.

I wish I hadn't sold the E-mu Teak. That would be it for me atm.  Denon D7000 if it was still widely available.

For me in the price ranges:

Starting from low to high prices:

*Koss PortaPros*
Razer Blackshark V2 (this is so comfy, and I really like them at the price)
Ultrasone HFI-15G
*Philips X1 if you can find it, or X2HR if not (X1 is warmer, more bassy)*
DT990 Pro
HE-400 Rev 2 (I dunno how the newer variants sound, so I can't add them here)
*K702 65th Anniversary (I believe the K7XX is tuned similarly). Still probably my fave open back dynamic headphone next to HD650.
K712 Pro (As the alternative to the K702 65th Anniversary, which I find to have a larger soundstage, but not as well balanced)*
Ultrasone Pro 900
*Sennheiser HD6XX/HD650
E-mu Teak
Denon D7000
LCD-2 Classic
LCD2 Rev 2 (if you could find them)
LCD-X*
Fostex TH900

Bolded would be my definite picks today, otherwise I'd look for any of these.


----------



## stavros.m

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Usually the fun/casual category of headphones.
> 
> Casual gaming is a lot easier to shop around for.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the list I will be looking at all the highlighted suggestions


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Usually the fun/casual category of headphones.
> 
> Casual gaming is a lot easier to shop around for.
> 
> ...


Purely out of curiosity is there a reason why you don't have the LCD-GX on there? Would I be correct in guessing that the GX is superseded by others at that price point, or instead that it leans more "competitive" than "fun"?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 7, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Purely out of curiosity is there a reason why you don't have the LCD-GX on there? Would I be correct in guessing that the GX is superseded by others at that price point, or instead that it leans more "competitive" than "fun"?


It's a personal thing. For fun/casual I like more bass focus. The GX is a fantastically well rounded headphone. It also exteeeends way deep down in bass. But I like a bit of bass emphasis, and not so much bass 'flatness'.

Note if you're not against EQ or bass boosting, the GX would jump it to top contenders. But I'm one of those "I never EQ' guys. Believe me, it'd be better if you WEREN'T like me.

Nothing EQs quite like Audezes, so I'd greatly recommend the GX and 2C ESPECIALLY if you EQ.

One thing every headphone on my list shares, is that they ALL have a bass bump. Well, not the  2 Rev 2, 2C and X, but those just have a deep bass presence that when it hits, it's fantastic. Even so, I prefer a bit of a bump over them for casual use.

Note if I could only have 1 headphone for everything that wasn't Portapros with KSC75 clips, it'd be the 2C or LCD-X. Would've been the D7000 if they still existed.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> It's a personal thing. For fun/casual I like more bass focus. The GX is a fantastically well rounded headphone. It also exteeeends way deep down in bass. But I like a bit of bass emphasis, and not so much bass 'flatness'.
> 
> Note if you're not against EQ or bass boosting, the GX would jump it to top contenders. But I'm one of those "I never EQ' guys. Believe me, it'd be better if you WEREN'T like me.
> 
> ...



In that case, I'm surprised you didn't bold the Fostex TH900 on your list then


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2022)

duranxv said:


> In that case, I'm surprised you didn't bold the Fostex TH900 on your list then


The murder treble was enough that I returned it. It was too much. I loved everything else and would have called that the best bass and soundstage in headphones. Even more impressive to my ears than the 800S soundstage.

Though I still personally prefer the D7000 bass, subjectively.


----------



## p1zzap1e

stavros.m said:


> Hey everyone I am seeing a lot of reviews for competitive gaming but what are your go to headphones for open world, survival and mmo style games
> 
> Thanks


Fostex t50 mk3 mayflower modded with zmf pads. Love it for immersive experiences. Mostly used audio technica ath-g1 before i got my fostex and modded them. Play alot of xbox series x, but also some cs:go and battlefield on pc. I love the t50´s, the difference in quality between them and the ath-g1 is big. Even in cs:go they perform well.


----------



## RedHarlow

Can you guys recommend me a DAC for the PS5??

I'm currently using the Sharkoon gaming dac pro S. But you can't adjust the Volume on this Thing If you use It in console. Firstly this is a PC device. Even with max settings the Sound in PS5 is not loud enough.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2022)

RedHarlow said:


> Can you guys recommend me a DAC for the PS5??
> 
> I'm currently using the Sharkoon gaming dac pro S. But you can't adjust the Volume on this Thing If you use It in console. Firstly this is a PC device. Even with max settings the Sound in PS5 is not loud enough.


PS5 has very low output voltage for meager dongle dacs. You'll need something with a more beefy amplifier.

Wouldn't take anything less than a Creative G6, Schiit Fulla 4, or Schiit Hel 2. Anything less and you won't have much headroom for volume.


----------



## RedHarlow

Mad Lust Envy said:


> PS5 has very low output voltage for meager dongle dacs. You'll need something with a more beefy amplifier.
> 
> Wouldn't take anything less than a Creative G6, Schiit Fulla 4, or Schiit Hel 2. Anything less and you won't have much headroom for volume.


Anything cheaper than these you mentioned?
Jesus these prices are way too much.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 8, 2022)

RedHarlow said:


> Anything cheaper than these you mentioned?
> Jesus these prices are way too much.


Look for something bigger than a little dongle dac, that says specifically for PS5. If not, the PS5 simply does not output high enough voltage to standard DACs, so you just won't get enough volume.

The Fulla is $109. Not sure what kinda prices you're expecting to pay...

You could also opt to grab audio from your TV's optical or rca out into a dac or amp. You'll get better volumes from DACs that aren't directly connected to the PS5. Though of course,* if you need a mic, these ain't gonna help you.

edit:*

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TMYY8XR/

Something like this would be worth checking out. Either use the optical output from the TV, or the RCA, if it doesn't have the optical output. (Check your TV's rear panel to ensure it has an audio output that matches.)

Can't vouch for the quality, but it's cheap, and reviews well enough.


*This one is like $10 more, and I think may be worth the jump (much more powerful):*

https://www.amazon.com/FX-Audio-Digital-Decoder-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B07TW2JQNN/


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> The murder treble was enough that I returned it. It was too much. I loved everything else and would have called that the best bass and soundstage in headphones. Even more impressive to my ears than the 800S soundstage.
> 
> Though I still personally prefer the D7000 bass, subjectively.



Ah, that's too bad.  Since you're the no-EQ type, people said that using the right tube amps with them tames the treble.


----------



## pervysage (Feb 8, 2022)

duranxv said:


> Ah, that's too bad.  Since you're the no-EQ type, people said that using the right tube amps with them tames the treble.



TH900 needs that elusive magical DAC/amp source in order to sound right IMO. I know all too well how they can sound insanely treble hot on like 4 outta 5 setups you try them on, lol. Doesn't necessarily have to be expensive either, just needs to synergize well.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'd like them again tbh.


----------



## RedHarlow

Thanks for the response. But I need an audio device that also supports voice chat.

Looks like I will try out of the Soundblaster X4. Or are there Note device that Support voice Chat??


----------



## Radio81

RedHarlow said:


> Thanks for the response. But I need an audio device that also supports voice chat.
> 
> Looks like I will try out of the Soundblaster X4. Or are there Note device that Support voice Chat??


GC7 is not much more than the X4.  It's better suited for console over the X4, imo.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Radio81 said:


> GC7 is not much more than the X4.  It's better suited for console over the X4, imo.


I've got a X4 and I've been pretty impressed by it. I use it with PC but I believe the X4 can be controlled via app on your mobile device (Bluetooth). I'd suggest looking into that functionality if you're interested in it. I don't know much about the GC7 so I can't compare the two.


----------



## stavros.m

JdeFalconr said:


> I've got a X4 and I've been pretty impressed by it. I use it with PC but I believe the X4 can be controlled via app on your mobile device (Bluetooth). I'd suggest looking into that functionality if you're interested in it. I don't know much about the GC7 so I can't compare the two.


Hey question about sxfi does it work well if your headphones are not on the supported list


----------



## Radio81

stavros.m said:


> Hey question about sxfi does it work well if your headphones are not on the supported list


Which headphones?  The list on Creative's site is not up to date.  I get far more headphone choices in the SXFI app.
https://support.sxfi.com/en/articles/2514882-what-headphones-work-with-the-sxfi-amp

As an example, the SHP9500, X2HR, and PC37X aren't listed in the link above, but they are listed in the SXFI app.


----------



## stavros.m

Radio81 said:


> Which headphones?  The list on Creative's site is not up to date.  I get far more headphone choices in the SXFI app.
> https://support.sxfi.com/en/articles/2514882-what-headphones-work-with-the-sxfi-amp
> 
> As an example, the SHP9500, X2HR, and PC37X aren't listed in the link above, but they are listed in the SXFI app.


Do you have the dt 900 pro x or hifiman deva


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

stavros.m said:


> Hey question about sxfi does it work well if your headphones are not on the supported list


They work well. SXFI is just a fancier general HTRF with tweaks based on personal ear shape, etc. It'll work with any headphones. There may be some EQ involved on the supported list, though not certain. I never bothered checking the supported list and just use whatever headphone I have. Works a treat.


----------



## Radio81

JdeFalconr said:


> I've got a X4 and I've been pretty impressed by it. I use it with PC but I believe the X4 can be controlled via app on your mobile device (Bluetooth). I'd suggest looking into that functionality if you're interested in it. I don't know much about the GC7 so I can't compare the two.


I don't have experience with either, but I've been comparing reviews and info of the X4 and GC7.  Trying to decide which one I should buy for PS5 use only.  From what I can tell, the main differences between the two are:

GC7 has dual DSP, so if you want to use SBX processing or SXFI, you can toggle that from the GC7.  X4 relies on Windows software to utilize SBX.  No SBX for console.
GC7 has individual hardware dials for volume, chatmix, mic gain, whereas X4 has a multifunction knob for volume, chatmix, and mic gain. GC7 wins there.
X4 has more line out options for surround systems.
Both use the same PC and phone app (bluetooth)
Does either one have hardware mic monitoring?  Not talking about software.
Can the X4 line out and headphone out be used at the same time?  It would be cool to have the line out feed my subwoofer and use it along with headphones simultaneously.

Right now I'm using PS5 > SXFI Amp > TRRS to aux input of Turtle Beach TAC > headset.  This gives me SXFI processing and still allows me to use mic monitoring, mic gain, and background noise limiter features of the TB TAC.  The only thing I don't have now is hardware chatmix, but I find the PS5 OS chatmix option is good enough.

Idk, I'm still not sold on either one.  Creative needs a product like the GC7 but with BT audio output, or even better USB output so that I could use SXFI processing with any wireless headset.



stavros.m said:


> Do you have the dt 900 pro x or hifiman deva


I do not own those, but the SXFI app lists the following headphones:
Beyerdynamic - DT770 PRO, DT880, DT990
Hifiman - Ananda, HE400i, HE400s

I would think you could choose one that is similar enough and manually adjust EQ.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 11, 2022)

Radio81 said:


> I don't have experience with either, but I've been comparing reviews and info of the X4 and GC7.  Trying to decide which one I should buy for PS5 use only.  From what I can tell, the main differences between the two are:
> 
> GC7 has dual DSP, so if you want to use SBX processing or SXFI, you can toggle that from the GC7.  X4 relies on Windows software to utilize SBX.  No SBX for console.
> GC7 has individual hardware dials for volume, chatmix, mic gain, whereas X4 has a multifunction knob for volume, chatmix, and mic gain. GC7 wins there.
> ...


I'm pretty sure that the GC7 does not have a dedicated chatmix dial. Chatmix functionality was one thing I looked hard at when I was choosing a product. In fact as I recall I had difficulty determining if the GC7 had *hardware *chatmix functionality at all (e.g. a physical knob to turn as opposed to just adjusting settings in software). If it did then I might have been tempted to go that route instead, I keep reading that's a superb device.

Ignore that, I fail at reading comprehension. I was confusing the GC7 and the X7.

For what it's worth the more I use the X4 the more I feel like some of its controls are poorly-implemented. For instance to mute your mic you short-press the mic button and then press down the multifunction dial, at which point it pulses red to show that it's actually muted (instead of solid-red when the mic button is short-pressed). It's not enough to make me recommend against it, it's still a great product. But it's something to be aware of.

By the way, also keep in mind that if you want Chatmix functionality with the X4 and a PS5 you have to use an HDMI-to-Optical converter to bring in audio; I believe Creative has some additional detail there. For Windows at least the X4 requires defining your game and chat audio separately. It was considerably annoying when my buddies wanted to talk via in-game chat because I couldn't chatmix it; the X4 saw it all as game audio.

The X4 does indeed do mic monitoring if you plug in to the headphone input on the device. Otherwise you're SOL. This was a key factor in my decision on a microphone.

I can tell you that from what I understand with the X4 you have to choose between either "speakers" output or "headphone" output. I believe you can only do one or the other, including line-out. If Schiit ever gets around to shipping my Modi 3+ then I'll be able to tell you for sure.

Wow and now that I take a closer look at the GC7 I wish I'd examined it more when I was looking at the X4. I think I'm liking the dedicated controls of the GC7 a lot better than the multifunction dial of the X4. The only negative thing about the GC7 is some of the looks. The X4 is a very attractive device on my desk. Can you turn off some of those multicolor lights on the GC7?


----------



## Jcue (Feb 11, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Can you turn off some of those multicolor lights on the GC7


You can change the colors, but I do not remember if you can turn them off. I'll check tonight when I back at my desk,


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

You can turn them off. If anything, you can change them to a custom color and lower the RGB values to 0.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 12, 2022)

Also while I'm stuck in Schiit backorder purgatory for the Modi I've considered upgrading to Modius/Magnius which gets me balanced output (yes I know I'd need a new cable). Trouble is reviews indicate the Modius narrows the soundstage. Can anyone confirm/deny? Everything else about that DAC & amp sound like they're excellent at the price point.


----------



## Chastity (Feb 12, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Also while I'm stuck in Schiit backorder purgatory for the Modi I've considered upgrading to Modius/Magnius which gets me balanced output (yes I know I'd need a new cable). Trouble is reviews indicate the Modius narrows the soundstage. Can anyone confirm/deny? Everything else about that DAC & amp sound like they're excellent at the price point.


I am not a fan of the Modius and Magnius.  They're designed like the Heresy and use opamps, plus the SE power on the Magnius is a joke.  Better off with an Asgard 3 or Jotenheim 2. IMO.  My DAC (SMSL M300 MKII) is $239 and uses an AK4497, one of AKM's flagships, and has all the Impulse Filters open and enabled on the DAC.  The Schiit DACs do not have any of that stuff enabled. (The Multibits don't need that function)

IIRC the Asgard and Jot also have the option to drop in an ESS or Multibit DAC card.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> I am not a fan of the Modius and Magnius.  They're designed like the Heresy and use opamps, plus the SE power on the Magnius is a joke.  Better off with an Asgard 3 or Jotenheim 2. IMO.  My DAC (SMSL M300 MKII) is $239 and uses an AK4497, one of AKM's flagships, and has all the Impulse Filters open and enabled on the DAC.  The Schiit DACs do not have any of that stuff enabled. (The Multibits don't need that function)
> 
> IIRC the Asgard and Jot also have the option to drop in an ESS or Multibit DAC card.


Thank you! Helpful as always. I looked at Asgard and Jotunheim and unfortunately even with the add-in DAC card they don't have the optical input I require. I'll take a look at that SMSL and I think you'd recommended some others too earlier in the thread. I had really wanted to go with Schiit because it seems like a company worth supporting, not to mention their prices seem to represent great value. But if it's going to take forever for them to ship then that doesn't do me much good.

To what extent do I need to be concerned with which amp I pair with a DAC? I have a Magni right now from Amazon; is there any reason why I couldn't use that with something like the SMSL?


----------



## Chastity (Feb 12, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you! Helpful as always. I looked at Asgard and Jotunheim and unfortunately even with the add-in DAC card they don't have the optical input I require. I'll take a look at that SMSL and I think you'd recommended some others too earlier in the thread. I had really wanted to go with Schiit because it seems like a company worth supporting, not to mention their prices seem to represent great value. But if it's going to take forever for them to ship then that doesn't do me much good.
> 
> To what extent do I need to be concerned with which amp I pair with a DAC? I have a Magni right now from Amazon; is there any reason why I couldn't use that with something like the SMSL?


The SMSL M300 MKII outputs 2.1V RMS on the analog line out, so no issue with using the Magni.  It also sports Balanced XLR outs should you ever add something like the Jotenheim 2 later.  I use mine with my tube buffer preamp feeding an Asgard 3.

SMSL M300 MKII - $239, available in blue, red and black (I got the Red)

The preamp is $48 with GE 5654 tubes

The Asgard 3 is $249

Since you have a Magni, you can get the DAC and upgrade later.  The preamp isn't expensive and you can have fun tube rolling.  For SE interconnects I use Monoprice Premium AWG22 dual RCA cables ($4 each)

I had to add an iDefender 3.0 to my DAC to eliminate dirty PC USB power from hissing up the DAC output.  None of the Schiit DACs have a galvanic isolation circuit to prevent this until you hit Bifrost 2 or higher.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> The SMSL M300 MKII outputs 2.1V RMS on the analog line out, so no issue with using the Magni.  It also sports Balanced XLR outs should you ever add something like the Jotenheim 2 later.  I use mine with my tube buffer preamp feeding an Asgard 3.
> 
> SMSL M300 MKII - $239, available in blue, red and black (I got the Red)
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity anything in that same price range that you can recommend with the "standard" wider-than-deeper form factor? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the M300 MK2 but I'm also cognizant that it's going to encroach on a desk that's already starved for depth.


----------



## Chastity (Feb 13, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Just out of curiosity anything in that same price range that you can recommend with the "standard" wider-than-deeper form factor? I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on the M300 MK2 but I'm also cognizant that it's going to encroach on a desk that's already starved for depth.


Just to get some perspective






If you want something smaller, the SMSL M200 has the same DAC chip but smaller footprint, and is $279  Doesn't have the pretty hi-res screen tho.  One aspect of the M300 I like is that the power brick is on the lower tier, and the audio components are on a separate pcb on the 2nd tier, which helps lower noise.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Just to get some perspective
> 
> 
> 
> If you want something smaller, the SMSL M200 has the same DAC chip but smaller footprint, and is $279  Doesn't have the pretty hi-res screen tho.  One aspect of the M300 I like is that the power brick is on the lower tier, and the audio components are on a separate pcb on the 2nd tier, which helps lower noise.


Thank you! The M200 definitely looks interesting but in terms of footprint depth is really my enemy. Here's my desk, which is 23" deep. For comparison the X4 is 5" deep. The M200 is 6.29" while the M300 mk2 is 6.5"; it would go probably right next to the X4, either next to or under the Magni, and it looks like its leading edge would about equal the edge of the left side of that speaker. I'd prefer not to give up that much real estate but it actually would fit rather neatly in that spot. After looking around a bit I do have to say it looks like the feature set of the M300 mk2 is pretty good at that price point.

I'm guessing, though, that the "standard" form factor for DACs is closer to the M200's 6"x9" and it's small ones like the Magni/Modi that are the outlier?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you! The M200 definitely looks interesting but in terms of footprint depth is really my enemy. Here's my desk, which is 23" deep. For comparison the X4 is 5" deep. The M200 is 6.29" while the M300 mk2 is 6.5"; it would go probably right next to the X4, either next to or under the Magni, and it looks like its leading edge would about equal the edge of the left side of that speaker. I'd prefer not to give up that much real estate but it actually would fit rather neatly in that spot. After looking around a bit I do have to say it looks like the feature set of the M300 mk2 is pretty good at that price point.
> 
> I'm guessing, though, that the "standard" form factor for DACs is closer to the M200's 6"x9" and it's small ones like the Magni/Modi that are the outlier?


I'd know that Whisper of the worm mission room anywhere.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I'd know that Whisper of the worm mission room anywhere.


I'm already toeing the off-topic line with the prior post so I'll just say yep =)

@Chastity In reflecting further I think my hesitancy about the M300 is less about the form factor and more about the price. As much as I love it and its features the M300 is about $100 more than I planned to spend. 

However after looking around and reviewing the recommended list from Headphonia what are your thoughts on the Topping E30? I get that it's objectively a step down from the M300 but from what I'm reading it looks like it could fit the bill. The other I was looking at was the JDS Atom+ which I believe you mentioned previously. I like how, like the E30, it's allegedly a very neutral and transparent reproduction of the source.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JdeFalconr said:


> I'm already toeing the off-topic line with the prior post so I'll just say yep =)


Talking games here should be fine.

Besides, Destiny 2 has some of the greatest sound designs in video games. It's an EXCELLENT game for headphone testing.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 13, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Talking games here should be fine.
> 
> Besides, Destiny 2 has some of the greatest sound designs in video games. It's an EXCELLENT game for headphone testing.


100% absolutely right, Bungie does some amazing things with that game audio.

Sadly I'm done with the game after putting in many, many hours since beta, on the order of 20+ weekly. I can't do the treadmill of a new power climb every season where you're back to square one every three months with a fresh slate of gear and vanity rewards to chase. FOMO is so key. Layer on the constant recycling of content and I couldn't summon the will to keep going just to to find out how the story - which I do think got to be very good - progresses.

It's a monumental game and I'm thankful for all the fun and camradarie it provided. I think at a fundamental level it just stopped being right for me. On the bright side I now have much more time available =)


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JdeFalconr said:


> 100% absolutely right, Bungie does some amazing things with that game audio.
> 
> Sadly I'm done with the game after putting in many, many hours since beta, on the order of 20+ weekly. I can't do the treadmill of a new power climb every season where you're back to square one every three months with a fresh slate of gear and vanity rewards to chase. FOMO is so key. Layer on the constant recycling of content and I couldn't summon the will to keep going just to to find out how the story - which I do think got to be very good - progresses.
> 
> It's a monumental game and I'm thankful for all the fun and camradarie it provided. I think at a fundamental level it just stopped being right for me. On the bright side I now have much more time available =)


I'm right there with you. I haven't played really since the season before Shadowkeep. That was what 2+ years ago. I did get the latest DLCs like 2 months ago to go through their campaigns with a friend, but did absokutely nothing else. Simply went story mode, and stopped.

Destiny 2 is effectively a 2nd job in terms of what it demands from you. Something I told myself I couldn't do anymore, if I wanted to play other games.

But man, if I had all the time in the world, I'd still be in it.


----------



## Atragon

A couple of pages ago, you put together a list of open back headphones that you'd seriously look at to buy for gaming.

Is there any chance you'd be able to put together a similar list of closed back headphones for those of us stuck with too much background noise for open backs?

I'm looking for something that's not as bass light as the SR598SE or the SRH440. I've trialed the Cloud Orbit S and it was soooo close to what I'm looking for, but I can't stand the noise floor. Seriously, is it so hard to tell a DAC to shut down its output when there's no input signal? But, other than that and a bit of a claustrophobic feeling from the size of the cups and the clamping force, I loved them.

I'm hoping you might be able to shed some light onto headphone options (used or new) that would make sense for someone who can't go for open back. (I'm planning either HeSuVi, Redscape, or Waves for virtualized sound.) I've already got my eyes on the Dekoni Blue Fostex (though they're semi-open), and the Oppo PM-3, as well as a deep discount on a Focal Elegia...

Many thanks in advance.


----------



## JdeFalconr

JdeFalconr said:


> I'm already toeing the off-topic line with the prior post so I'll just say yep =)
> 
> @Chastity In reflecting further I think my hesitancy about the M300 is less about the form factor and more about the price. As much as I love it and its features the M300 is about $100 more than I planned to spend.
> 
> However after looking around and reviewing the recommended list from Headphonia what are your thoughts on the Topping E30? I get that it's objectively a step down from the M300 but from what I'm reading it looks like it could fit the bill. The other I was looking at was the JDS Atom+ which I believe you mentioned previously. I like how, like the E30, it's allegedly a very neutral and transparent reproduction of the source.


OK @Chastity I talked myself into going for the M300; it'll make upgrading to a balanced amp much easier later on and it's a nice unit otherwise. The E30 and Atom+ do look quite attractive still but it's that balanced output that I think really got me. One question I did have: Headphonia's review characterized the M300 mkii soundstage as "wide but not very deep". Any thoughts there? I'm guessing that it's not a very big deal if true.


----------



## PreeminentPeace

Just want to say this forum post was the start of a lifeline audiophile obsession. Who knew buying Phillips Fidelio x1s and reading all of this post would result in spending thousands on thousands of dollars and many years of listening trying to achieve the perfect system. lol


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PreeminentPeace said:


> Just want to say this forum post was the start of a lifeline audiophile obsession. Who knew buying Phillips Fidelio x1s and reading all of this post would result in spending thousands on thousands of dollars and many years of listening trying to achieve the perfect system. lol


Ironically, I'd love to have a pair of X1s, if they were still around. They had ear tickling bass, which is a rarity. Definitely not as good as the X2s, but bassheads would likely prefer them.


----------



## Chastity (Feb 14, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> OK @Chastity I talked myself into going for the M300; it'll make upgrading to a balanced amp much easier later on and it's a nice unit otherwise. The E30 and Atom+ do look quite attractive still but it's that balanced output that I think really got me. One question I did have: Headphonia's review characterized the M300 mkii soundstage as "wide but not very deep". Any thoughts there? I'm guessing that it's not a very big deal if true.


Isn't that also an issue with what headphones you test with?  I also find I gain more frontal depth when paired with my tube preamp.

A colleague here has my DAC, and switched to a Gustard X16, and he seems to prefer it.  But it's twice the price.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Isn't that also an issue with what headphones you test with?  I also find I gain more frontal depth when paired with my tube preamp.


Not sure, to be honest. I was trying to figure out if it was somehow a characteristic of the DAC.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Not sure, to be honest. I was trying to figure out if it was somehow a characteristic of the DAC.


Another issue is knowing what filter he tested with.  They DO impact the sound.  I prefer the "Natural" Filter 5 (Super Slow).  It just sounds the most proper to my ears.


----------



## PreeminentPeace

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Ironically, I'd love to have a pair of X1s, if they were still around. They had ear tickling bass, which is a rarity. Definitely not as good as the X2s, but bassheads would likely prefer them.


I sold mine on my crazy upgrade quest otherwise I'd offer to ship them to you for free... Somehow ended up with a chord hugo tt2 and sennheiser HD800s for gaming Focal Utopia for music enjoyment. I went well off the deep end lol. Hugo TT2 did add some bass authority to the HD800s but nothing will ever hit the openback bass sound for a dynamic driver like that original X1. Albeit at the lack of some dynamics and clarity that other offerings have.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

PreeminentPeace said:


> I sold mine on my crazy upgrade quest otherwise I'd offer to ship them to you for free... Somehow ended up with a chord hugo tt2 and sennheiser HD800s for gaming Focal Utopia for music enjoyment. I went well off the deep end lol. Hugo TT2 did add some bass authority to the HD800s but nothing will ever hit the openback bass sound for a dynamic driver like that original X1. Albeit at the lack of some dynamics and clarity that other offerings have.


My bad, I made it sound like I wanted your pair. I mean it's definitely rare for anyone to keep the headphones that started their journey, lol.

I really meant, that I wish it was still sold today. Though it's a totally different Philips now.

I would like to have a pair of X2HRs though. I should consider getting one. Maybe even doing a review of it. It's been a long time since my original X2/28 review.


----------



## PreeminentPeace

Mad Lust Envy said:


> XMy bad, I made it sound like I wanted your pair. I mean it's definitely rare for anyone to keep the headphones that started their journey, lol.
> 
> I really meant, that I wish it was still sold today. Though it's a totally different Philips now.
> 
> I would like to have a pair of X2HRs though. I should consider getting one. Maybe even doing a review of it. It's been a long time since my original X2/28 review.


Its too true that most of us don't have our original cans that broke us into the hobby. Although I have had my HD800s for gaming for a long long time now. Not sure anything will ever dethrone them but I'll keep an eye on your recommendations just in case. 

I am sure though a lot of people would love some updated perspective on some of your classic choices on this list. I'd tune in for that!


----------



## Chastity (Feb 15, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My bad, I made it sound like I wanted your pair. I mean it's definitely rare for anyone to keep the headphones that started their journey, lol.
> 
> I really meant, that I wish it was still sold today. Though it's a totally different Philips now.


I still own all my headphones that I started this journey with.  I love comparing them to each other at times.

Sennheiser HD-580 Precisions
Sony MDR-SA5000
V-Moda Crossfade LP (for ipod)
Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro
Monolith M1070
Monolith M1570

Also, still have my Headroom Supreme portable amp


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 15, 2022)

Chastity said:


> Another issue is knowing what filter he tested with.  They DO impact the sound.  I prefer the "Natural" Filter 5 (Super Slow).  It just sounds the most proper to my ears.


So I had another thought last night after reading some of your responses to others in this thread: another way I could play this would be to get a good amp (Asgard, most likely, at that price) and any old DAC, probably a JDS Atom for the price) then upgrade the DAC later. That would equate to about the same amount of money as the setup I'm currently considering (M300 mkii + Magni) and, truth be told, the more I consider it the more I really like the idea.

But is there really going to be much difference going that route as opposed to another? Or at this point am I splitting hairs?


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> So I had another thought last night after reading some of your responses to others in this thread: another way I could play this would be to get a good amp (Asgard, most likely, at that price) and any old DAC, probably a JDS Atom for the price) then upgrade the DAC later. That would equate to about the same amount of money as the setup I'm currently considering (M300 mkii + Magni) and, truth be told, the more I consider it the more I really like the idea.
> 
> But is there really going to be much difference going that route as opposed to another? Or at this point am I splitting hairs?


I'd never dissuade anyone from getting an Asgard 3.    But I thought you were planning to go Balanced at some point.  The A3 has a lot of power, enough for anything other than the most power-hungry (HE6se v2 or Susvara, or Ribbon drivers) and is built better than the Magni.

You could do an Asgard 3 ($249) and a Modi 3E ($129) with it's ESS DAC, or if feeling adventurous Modi MB ($249).


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 15, 2022)

Chastity said:


> I'd never dissuade anyone from getting an Asgard 3.    But I thought you were planning to go Balanced at some point.  The A3 has a lot of power, enough for anything other than the most power-hungry (HE6se v2 or Susvara, or Ribbon drivers) and is built better than the Magni.
> 
> You could do an Asgard 3 ($249) and a Modi 3E ($129) with it's ESS DAC, or if feeling adventurous Modi MB ($249).


I'd love to go with a Modi but all of its flavors are still super-backordered, unfortunately; that's why I'm considering shifting to the Atom DAC which, from what I've read, is pretty darn good. I wouldn't mind the Topping E30 instead but it's $40 more than the Atom. From what I'm reading it sounds like the Atom and the Modi 3E are also relatively equivalent in terms of sound quality.

I would like to go balanced at some point in the future but that can wait. The overall investment is significant in terms of gear, it looks like: more-expensive DAC, more-expensive amp, specialty cables for whatever headphones you're going to take advantage with. I also would love to just go straight to the Jotunheim but I can't justify the additional $150 as I still need a DAC.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 15, 2022)

I think Asgard 3 might be my fave amp to date. I just wish it was balanced. I prefer the sound to my Jotunheim 2, though the Jot 2 is technically superior in more ways than one.

But sound preferences is important, and I love the Asgard's character.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think Asgard 3 might be my fave amp to date. I just wish it was balanced. I prefer the sound to my Jotunheim 2, though the Jot 2 is technically superior in more ways than one.
> 
> But sound preferences is important, and I love the Asgard's character.


Thanks! Very much appreciate the vote of confidence. 

Now if only Schiit's site wouldn't have crapped out on me.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

JdeFalconr said:


> Thanks! Very much appreciate the vote of confidence.
> 
> Now if only Schiit's site wouldn't have crapped out on me.


Yeah I think you'll be happy. I am REALLY mad at myself for returning it.


----------



## Chastity

https://www.linsoul.com/products/gold-planar-gl1200?variant=40108028690587

My future upgrade, the GL1200.  Ribbon drivers  <3


----------



## Monsterzero

Can anyone suggest the best PS5 wireless headset, prefer 7.1?

I'm coming from an Astro Mixamp, bi-amped by a Magni 2>Fidelio X1 for single person games, and K701 for FPSers. Our new home setup has me about 13' from the equipment, so wired won't work as im too far away.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> https://www.linsoul.com/products/gold-planar-gl1200?variant=40108028690587
> 
> My future upgrade, the GL1200.  Ribbon drivers  <3


Those do look pretty! And wow I don't think I've ever seen such ugly comments from customer service in reviews.


----------



## kadinh

JdeFalconr said:


> Those do look pretty! And wow I don't think I've ever seen such ugly comments from customer service in reviews.


OMG tell me who your avatar is!!!! I remember it from a long time ago, but cant remember the name. I keep wanting to say "devil dog"...


----------



## JdeFalconr

kadinh said:


> OMG tell me who your avatar is!!!! I remember it from a long time ago, but cant remember the name. I keep wanting to say "devil dog"...


Hah! Not many people recognize that one. You're very close, it's Devil Doll. Just be careful doing a Google search for that 

https://joesparks.com/radiskull/

HOLY BEANS I just discovered this. It's perfect for my setup and would allow me to ditch the Sound Blaster X4. I could go direct from my internal sound card (Sound Blaster ZSE) to a DAC via optical and from there to the amp.

https://beacn.com/products/beacn-mix

EDIT: After some research this looks pretty incredible. It's a highly customizable mixer and hardware control for Windows audio sources. It's also not physically in-line for the audio path (i.e. you don't plug anything into it), though it's logically in-line.

There are two flavors: The Mix and Mix Create. The difference is $50 and while the Mix lets you control two Windows audio devices and do per-application volume control (manual assignment of each application to a physical knob) the Mix Create sets up virtual audio input and output devices in Windows that you can then assign to hardware knobs. That's a really big deal because it lets you separately define - and control via hardware dials - your default output and default communications output separately. That is, if you don't already have separate devices in Windows for those things, which most gear will not. So to emulate Chatmix functionality I'd need the Mix Create for $200 (https://beacn.com/pages/beacn-mix-create). I'm going to try my darndest to get one once they come in-stock and if I can get my hands on one I'll report back.


----------



## kadinh

JdeFalconr said:


> Hah! Not many people recognize that one. You're very close, it's Devil Doll. Just be careful doing a Google search for that
> 
> https://joesparks.com/radiskull/


O
M
G

that takes me WAAAAAAAAAAY back. Thank you!


----------



## Chastity

@JdeFalconr  When you move away from sound cards, and on to dedicated audio gear, they come with knobs of their own    You leave Windows Audio at 100%.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> @JdeFalconr  When you move away from sound cards, and on to dedicated audio gear, they come with knobs of their own    You leave Windows Audio at 100%.


Sure, for the main output, but for my use case of game/chat mixing you would either have to have separate physical outputs going to a mixing device or you have to have some kind of controller that lets you control separate Windows device levels. Steelseries, Astro, Creative and others have the device hardware and Windows drivers that do it. My trouble is that until those Beacn products there was no device for that exclusive purpose, especially one that doesn't sit in the physical audio path.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

A bit disappointed at 3D audio piped through hdmi.

It's for 3D audio for TV speakers and isn't actually piping through headphone 3D audio through hdmi for external devices. That should've been an option.

Maybe PS6....


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 19, 2022)

I found an amazing deal ($200) on the K712 Pro that has me itching again to try it out. Besides what I've read elsewhere @Mad Lust Envy 's review of it at the beginning of the thread still has me curious what it sounds like. I also have been reading very interesting things about the ATH-R70X.


----------



## whitedragem (Feb 19, 2022)

hey a recording of PS5s tempest audio, with all 5 profiles.

as it seems to have been rewatched a few times (per user), my advice of ‘try different headphones’ is sound…

I use different 3 profiles for 5 headphones, so, worth sampling…



kudos to the thread.. (I gather stuff like this is probably already here)


video is a relatively consistent run, using a range of waterfalls and their proximity to cliff/mountain surfaces to get a sense of positional accuracy.
it is a couple of minutes per run, and taken from the games opening moment (no spoilers)


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> I found an amazing deal ($200) on the K712 Pro that has me itching again to try it out. Besides what I've read elsewhere @Mad Lust Envy 's review of it at the beginning of the thread still has me curious what it sounds like. I also have been reading very interesting things about the ATH-R70X.


We approve of the R70X


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> We approve of the R70X


Now if only they weren't $350 =/


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Now if only they weren't $350 =/


At least they don't cost $1350


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> At least they don't cost $1350


Good point, in that case I should go buy two, just in case.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Good point, in that case I should go buy two, just in case.


Did you decide what you are doing yet?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Did you decide what you are doing yet?


I bit on the K712 because it was only $200. It shows up tomorrow. I think the ATH-R70x will be on my Christmas list. I'm keeping the M1570's though, at least for now. They sound absolutely incredible with the Asgard.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 23, 2022)

I think the K612 is for those that prefer a more neutral tonal balance with deep extension. Like it's quite accurate sounding with some brightness up top.

The K712 has a warmer sound, with more midbass punch, and bigger soundstage. Sub bass doesn't extend as well as the K612 Pro.

I think the 612 Pro is massively underrated, and would be an ideal candidate for competitive gaming. The K712 is not as well balanced, but sounds higher fidelity, as the 612 distorts a bit in busy sound passages. It's high detail but the drivers get a bit overworked. At least that's how it sounded to me way back when.

If I had to choose between, them, the K712 would be it. The K612 is also higher in impedance so would be a little more finicky with amplification.

I still think the K702 65th Anniversary is my fave though. It controls its upper midrange peak better than the K712 which is a bit sizzly, despite it being warm. But I could live with either.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think the K612 is for those that prefer a more neutral tonal balance with deep extension. Like it's quite accurate sounding with some brightness up top.
> 
> The K712 has a warmer sound, with more midbass punch, and bigger soundstage. Sub bass doesn't extend as well as the K612 Pro.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! That's very helpful. It was your original writeup on the K712 that really got me interested in hearing it. After hearing the MC-450s I found that I really enjoy a clear, detailed, crisp sound. Of course for gaming - which, at this point, any of my headphones will be used for - I know I want a big soundstage. From what you're saying we'll see if I like the warm sound of the K712's; it also sounds like they might be the better gaming headphones. 

I've read quite a bit on the K702 65th edition and unfortunately they're quite hard to find, not to mention much more expensive. Just about everything I read about them says they're worth it, though.


----------



## whitedragem

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I think the K612 is for those that prefer a more neutral tonal balance with deep extension. Like it's quite accurate sounding with some brightness up top.
> 
> The K712 has a warmer sound, with more midbass punch, and bigger soundstage. Sub bass doesn't extend as well as the K612 Pro.
> 
> ...


Could this observation on the k712 be a ‘lesser broken in driver’?
I find that ‘the larger driver headphones’ take longer to break in and the sound change would be appropriate to what you have listed…
(large drivers and TOUGH composites materials- the other ‘long break in was some Ultrasone edition 5s that took well over a thousand hours before their ridiculous treble peak subsided)(none of that time ‘on my head’, but even a room away it was painful.. (titanium foil took a long time even though only 40mm size))
The 70mm AKGs are know to take one of the longest breakin times around…

Some k612s I have are brilliant and I have never heard them ’break up’ /distort, including running them at 100% output from a Burson Conductor V2 when playing Returnal for hours… 
the conductor V2 has a _lot of output power_, and I find their ability to drink it all up is silly. 
I truly believe that these ‘phones benefit from some crazy good amplification power….


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 23, 2022)

I'm the wrong guy to ask about breaking in. I'll leave that debate to someone else on another thread. Not here. That argument is not one I'm in the mood to have.

The K612 was a loaner from a friend who had used it for some time.

The K712 Pro... I forget, I may have purchased those.

I do think the K612 Pro is fantastic, and whatever distortion I had was not something noticeable with regular use. It was something In could hear under close scrutiny, and is not something I would call a drawback or worry.

The Fidelio X1/X2 is another headphone that can distort under close scrutiny, and is not something I'd ever stell people to worry about under normal listening.

I STILL want an X2 for myself, today.


----------



## Chastity

Redscape 1.4.1 Released

*Version 1.4.1*

*General* 

Head Tracker firmware has been updated. Tracking is more efficient and stable.
Lowered CPU usage of Head Tracker window.
LFE channel is now low-passed at 300 Hz.
 
*EQ* 

The equalizer now has a gain slider on the right side of the graph.       

*Settings Menu* 

Added _Surround Channels -3 dB in Downmix_ option. When enabled and the 3D effect is turned off, surround channel's contribution to the downmix will be lowered 3 dB.       
Added _Always Show In Taskbar_ option. This will keep Redscape visible in the taskbar even when minimized.
Added _Toggle EQ When Power Is Toggled_ option. This will toggle the EQ on/off when the 3D effect is turned on/off.       
Output Format now defaults to Shared mode when using WASAPI.       
Added a warning on Audio I/O tab that will display if Redscape is not the default audio device.
Added a warning on Audio I/O tab that will display if Redscape is attempting to output to the current default audio device (selected in the Windows control panel.)
Power On/Off volumes match more closely.
Rebalanced channel levels and added channel level sliders on the Speakers tab.

*Fixes* 

Only list WASAPI render devices. Prior to this change, capture devices would also be listed.
WASAPI fix for some audio devices that use 24 bit data wrapped in 32 bits.       
Fixed a bug that could incorrectly cause the following message to display: "Buffer underrun. Try increasing the Buffer size in the Settings menu."       
Fixed a bug that would mute channels if speaker levels were modified in the Settings menu.


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> Redscape 1.4.1 Released


Are you getting emails to notify you of new versions? (or do you check the website everyday?!)
I bought it, but never get emails notifying me of new releases...


----------



## Chastity

Zachik said:


> Are you getting emails to notify you of new versions? (or do you check the website everyday?!)
> I bought it, but never get emails notifying me of new releases...


The app checks for new updates unless you have it disabled or blocked.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Any one of you guys gonna be in NYC this weekend? Visit me at the CanJam Audeze booth!


----------



## Zachik

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Any one of you guys gonna be in NYC this weekend? Visit me at the CanJam Audeze booth!


Will do!


----------



## AxelCloris

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Any one of you guys gonna be in NYC this weekend? Visit me at the CanJam Audeze booth!


You can't keep me away!


----------



## JdeFalconr (Feb 24, 2022)

Does anyone know of a similar event in the Seattle area or even a store with a good selection of higher-end headphones? I hate having to order them just to hear what they sound like and I know it isn't fair to online retailers if I return them. I unfortunately don't feel like I have a good alternative.

On the flipside I can appreciate why this is so hard for retailers. Stocking expensive, arguably niche products is probably rather unappealing to them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Feb 25, 2022)

That feeling when you forget the damn usb to 3.5mm dongle, so everything you downloaded on the phone to watch on the flight is.... Well you can't.

Screw whomever decided to eliminate headphone jacks... you suck.

😫😭

Edit: Oh wait I brought the Penrose. SAVED. It's been in the bag for days. 😱


----------



## JdeFalconr

Huh so apparently AKG takes "detachable cable" to a whole new level. I barely exerted any force when trying to detach the stock cable and the whole connector came out. I wrote to Thomann Music inquiring about an exchange. Worst of all I haven't tried listening to them as I don't want to touch this any more than necessary until we can figure out how we're going to resolve the problem. Its going to be interesting, though, as these were shipped internationally from Germany.


----------



## Chastity

Just hot glue it in place ... it's what Audeze does


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Just hot glue it in place ... it's what Audeze does


Hah! I considered some super glue. My concern, though, is in what other parts of the headphones were not glued, or were glued improperly? Moreover if I do my own fix and then later on return or warranty them for other reason will they try and claim something I did messed up the headphones? To me it doesn't feel like it's worth taking that chance for a $200 purchase unless Thomann is a royal pain in my request for a replacement.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Hah! I considered some super glue. My concern, though, is in what other parts of the headphones were not glued, or were glued improperly? Moreover if I do my own fix and then later on return or warranty them for other reason will they try and claim something I did messed up the headphones? To me it doesn't feel like it's worth taking that chance for a $200 purchase unless Thomann is a royal pain in my request for a replacement.



Well, hot glue is better than using Super Glue... the Super Glue could adversely react with the plastic AKG uses.  Rubber Cement is an option, tho hot glue will fill gaps and can later be peeled off if desired.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Well, hot glue is better than using Super Glue... the Super Glue could adversely react with the plastic AKG uses.  Rubber Cement is an option, tho hot glue will fill gaps and can later be peeled off if desired.


Appreciate the info, I'll give it a go should a return/exchange not pan out. I can confirm I've seen super glue do some funny things to plastics before.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Appreciate the info, I'll give it a go should a return/exchange not pan out. I can confirm I've seen super glue do some funny things to plastics before.


Many chemical glues are exothermic, and can warp plastics


----------



## sdang (Feb 28, 2022)

I am currently running a mixamp/vali combo with my akg 702 but want to repurpose that combo for my work setup. Any suggestions on a pair of headphones to run with a sbx g6 & does not require an amp? (No budget really..) I only play FPS on my PS5.


----------



## dunring

sdang said:


> I am currently running a mixamp/vali combo with my akg 702 but want to repurpose that combo for my work setup. Any suggestions on a pair of headphones to run with a sbx g6 & does not require an amp? (No budget really..) I only play FPS on my PS5.


The Audio Technica ATH AD1000x is excellent for gaming and doesn't need an amplifier, also the best female vocals I've heard on any headphone. I use the Beyerdynamic MMX300 and it's great with low power requirements too. The Grado 325 was so accurate for gaming, if you don't mind the lack of bass and comfort.


----------



## sdang (Feb 28, 2022)

dunring said:


> The Audio Technica ATH AD1000x is excellent for gaming and doesn't need an amplifier, also the best female vocals I've heard on any headphone. I use the Beyerdynamic MMX300 and it's great with low power requirements too. The Grado 325 was so accurate for gaming, if you don't mind the lack of bass and comfort.


Thanks! AD1000x over the 700x?


----------



## dandiego (Feb 28, 2022)

The *GC7 is $125.49* via Creative's website with coupon code "JUSTSHOP" (25% off) -- and another $2 off if register for an account and check the box for "Sign up for Creative Newsletters" which gives you 40 "points" that you can use for $2 off your order.  Seems like a pretty good deal.


----------



## JdeFalconr

dandiego said:


> The *GC7 is $125.49* via Creative's website with coupon code "JUSTSHOP" (25% off) -- and another $2 off if register for an account and check the box for "Sign up for Creative Newsletters" which gives you 40 "points" that you can use for $2 off your order.  Seems like a pretty good deal.


That is indeed a good deal. I was taking a hard look at that one for the hardware chatmix controls.


----------



## Xlaw

I've been using the G6 connected to the Liquid Spark for a while with the Focal Elex ( excellent sound overall but very heavy ) and the Emu teak ( immersive but fatiguing to my ears for some reason ), looking at the 6xx for a compromise between weight and sound quality mainly for single player games, is it a valid choice ? or is there something better around the 500$ range ?

Also, would I get a noticeable jump in sound quality if I upgrade to a dedicated DAC like the modi 3e or the S.M.S.L M300 MKII ? 

Thank you


----------



## Chastity (Mar 1, 2022)

Xlaw said:


> I've been using the G6 connected to the Liquid Spark for a while with the Focal Elex ( excellent sound overall but very heavy ) and the Emu teak ( immersive but fatiguing to my ears for some reason ), looking at the 6xx for a compromise between weight and sound quality mainly for single player games, is it a valid choice ? or is there something better around the 500$ range ?
> 
> Also, would I get a noticeable jump in sound quality if I upgrade to a dedicated DAC like the modi 3e or the S.M.S.L M300 MKII ?
> 
> Thank you


You'll notice an improvement in bass response (G6 rolls off) and after I upgraded, I found the G6 sounded grainy in comparison.  I came from a G6 to a M300 MKII


----------



## DSebastiao

Guys, i'm looking to get a new DAC/Amp, i'm pretty much on the fence between the G6 and the GC7, i would like to add an amp or something in the future. 

Also, why is no one talking of the soundblaster x4? I has an optical input now, so it seems to me that it's kind of overlapping the G6.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 1, 2022)

No one has any experience with it. Hence why no mention.

Also, doesn't do virtual surround on consoles.


----------



## DSebastiao

Mad Lust Envy said:


> No one has any experience with it. Hence why no mention.
> 
> Also, doesn't do virtual surround on consoles.


That's why then. Off the list.


----------



## JdeFalconr

DSebastiao said:


> Guys, i'm looking to get a new DAC/Amp, i'm pretty much on the fence between the G6 and the GC7, i would like to add an amp or something in the future.
> 
> Also, why is no one talking of the soundblaster x4? I has an optical input now, so it seems to me that it's kind of overlapping the G6.


I've got a X4, I believe I talked about it several times earlier in this thread so you should be able to page back and see some of my thoughts there. In summary I've been mostly impressed by it and find it a very capable, feature-rich device that I think looks very attractive on a desk. Two negatives for me were that I find the control scheme quite cumbersome and while for some headphones it might drive just fine it didn't have enough oomph for my M1570 planars. A third frustration was that it only supports a 3.5mm mic if you want to use the X4's microphone features, including hardware mute or sidetone. While researching all of the fantastic USB and XLR options out there I found the X4's 3.5mm input painfully limiting.

My use case for the X4, in the end, largely revolves around my desire for hardware chatmix controls. Once the Beacn Mix Create comes back into stock I plan to get rid of my X4. But my situation is exceptionally niche and for most people I'd think it could be an excellent device.


----------



## Radio81

With the current sale of the GC7 at around $125, I can't see much reason to buy the X4.  The X4 is excluded from the current 25% promo.  The only use case I can think of preferring the X4 is for the preout options.

I gave some thoughts on the X4 vs. GC7 a few pages back.  Just from research it seems they share a lot of the same features, but the X4 is more reliant on PC software to utilize its full potential, whereas the GC7 is more geared toward console use.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Radio81 said:


> With the current sale of the GC7 at around $125, I can't see much reason to buy the X4.  The X4 is excluded from the current 25% promo.  The only use case I can think of preferring the X4 is for the preout options.
> 
> I gave some thoughts on the X4 vs. GC7 a few pages back.  Just from research it seems they share a lot of the same features, but the X4 is more reliant on PC software to utilize its full potential, whereas the GC7 is more geared toward console use.


Another use case for the X4 would be for its analog 5.1/7.1 speaker outputs, the GC7 only has line out, optical out and headphone-out as I recall.


----------



## Radio81

JdeFalconr said:


> Another use case for the X4 would be for its analog 5.1/7.1 speaker outputs, the GC7 only has line out, optical out and headphone-out as I recall.



I mentioned the preout options of the X4 in my previous post.


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## whitedragem (Mar 5, 2022)

such a great thread focused on gaming audio; figured I’d record a few more ‘samples’ of console HRTF encoded surround sound; these are ‘tempest audio’ so sound effects can be traced through environments with reflection, refraction and occlusion etc..

first two vids are ‘in car’ (not very exciting), but the second one is ‘in heavy rain’.
both samples are on a track set to have a lot of cars and tunnels…

all five sound profiles are recorded (typically in order 3-1-5-2-4).

gt7 a 

gt7 b (rain) 



not tempest; just an alternative ‘hdr’ sampler   (learning which methods record HDR video best)  -the sound is from the DTS X surround setup playing back 7 channel PCM upmixed to 11 channels; I doubt it serves any purpose for us head-fiers, but any HDR monitor users who want to PM me some feedback between the Canon DSLR vs Samsung phone versions of the HDR clips are welcomed to do so…

these are just experimental clips; ignore framing, and ‘driving’, the two tempest samples are using a Fiio BTA30, converting USB to COAX, then fed from the Anthem processor. (pretty average DACs vs most of what head-fi would choose to use- fairly irrelevant as the Canon has to re-encode- ADC- so the console output would be cleaner/better for most headfiers’)

ps the framing on the videos IS NOT the ipad photo I took for thumbnail for the videos….


----------



## JdeFalconr

OK I'm going to ask the dumb question here: is there any issue with me leaving my Asgard amp switched on all of the time? I know Schiit mentioned in the manual that it's no big deal and just generates heat. I'm curious to hear what this group says. The fact that it's generating heat implies to me it's eating electricity and based on that I feel like I ought to continue to switch it off when not in use. On the other hand besides the convenience factor I also am cognizant of how thermal expansion could wear things out after enough expansion-contraction cycles.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I have essentially never turned off any of my Schiit amps since getting them, with the exception of the Valis and Lyrs, since they have tubes, and tubes do die.

As long as you don't mind the power bill being higher, there's essentially no drawback. In fact, constantly turning devices off/on is what kills them, as opposed to always leaving them on.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> OK I'm going to ask the dumb question here: is there any issue with me leaving my Asgard amp switched on all of the time? I know Schiit mentioned in the manual that it's no big deal and just generates heat. I'm curious to hear what this group says. The fact that it's generating heat implies to me it's eating electricity and based on that I feel like I ought to continue to switch it off when not in use. On the other hand besides the convenience factor I also am cognizant of how thermal expansion could wear things out after enough expansion-contraction cycles.


Amp 101

Class A amps will draw full power at all times.  When they are not outputting sound, all that power draw becomes heat.  So Class A amps are coolest when they are driving gear and being used.

Class B amps draw power when they are outputting sound, and are cool when they are not.

The Asgard 3 is a Class A/B hybrid, and the Class A portion is 500mW.  So the amp while it is on will always draw at least 500mW of electricity.  This is why the amp is only warm when being idle instead of being hot.  I turn mine off when I turn in for the evening.  Leaving it on 24/7 will not stress the amp or damage it, however it will suck juice.


----------



## JdeFalconr (Mar 9, 2022)

Got it, thanks!! Very helpful from you both @Mad Lust Envy  and @Chastity.

Now the next issue to overcome: I just discovered my Sound Blaster Z SE doesn't output virtual surround via the optical-out, unlike the X4 that did virtual 7.1. Ugh. Time to research internal sound cards.

Looks like the AE-5 theoretically does virtual 7.1 via "headphones and speakers" but no word if it does it via the optical-out. Also of importance is that nothing has an optical-in until you go all the way up to the AE-9, and that would be way overkill for me. I use optical-in for input from a game console which I then play out via the computer. Alternatively does anyone know a good way to add optical-in to a PC? That would solve the issue.

At this point I'm wondering if I ought to just keep the X4. I could pretty much get rid of the Z SE. Or the other way to play it is to keep the Z SE, ditch the X4, and get a AE-5 Plus. The Z SE would basically only exist for the optical input and the AE-5 would handle optical out to the Atom DAC. That would have the benefit of not having another external device (X4).

EDIT: And now in taking a hard look at the documentation I'm wondering whether it is in fact possible to play virtual 7.1 via the Z SE optical out by way of the "Play Stereo Mix to digital output" setting, via the following (per https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=200381&c):

1. Set Windows default device to speakers.
2. Set playback mode in Sound Blaster Command to Headphones (which, per that Creative article, enables headphone virtualization).
3. In Sound Blaster Command enable the setting "Play Stereo Mix to digital output."


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Got it, thanks!! Very helpful from you both @Mad Lust Envy  and @Chastity.
> 
> Now the next issue to overcome: I just discovered my Sound Blaster Z SE doesn't output virtual surround via the optical-out, unlike the X4 that did virtual 7.1. Ugh. Time to research internal sound cards.
> 
> ...


Why not use an app to create your 7.1 VSS and use a proper DAC and amp, and just ditch all the consumer sound card solutions?  If you need mic input, get an interface or something like the Schiit Hel?  My setup outperforms the AE-9 or anything else Creative will make anytime in the near future, and no bloated drivers and applications.  I have Redscape, Dolby Access, and DTS Sound Unbound, and even Waves NX. (tho no longer can get a license anymore from Waves)


----------



## JdeFalconr (Mar 9, 2022)

Chastity said:


> Why not use an app to create your 7.1 VSS and use a proper DAC and amp, and just ditch all the consumer sound card solutions?  If you need mic input, get an interface or something like the Schiit Hel?  My setup outperforms the AE-9 or anything else Creative will make anytime in the near future, and no bloated drivers and applications.  I have Redscape, Dolby Access, and DTS Sound Unbound, and even Waves NX. (tho no longer can get a license anymore from Waves)


I've been sticking with discrete sound cards for three reasons: first of all I need the optical inputs and outputs. Second of all, I like Creative's 7.1 virtualization. Third and most importantly, I'm still a believer in offloading processing of audio. I'm familiar with arguments that modern processors are powerful enough and motherboard audio hardware sufficiently advanced that the performance benefits of discrete sound cards are inconsequential. However I have yet to see an actual analysis done to produce performance data supporting or refuting that position.

I certainly want to avoid keeping the X4 (desk real estate) so if the Z SE turns out not to be able to send virtual 7.1 out the optical connection I might give Redscape a try; I see they have a 15-day return period for the $40. Alternatively I could try my wacky idea of adding an AE-5 to handle output duties and keep the Z SE.


----------



## duranxv

JdeFalconr said:


> I've been sticking with discrete sound cards for three reasons: first of all I need the optical inputs and outputs. Second of all, I like Creative's 7.1 virtualization. Third and most importantly, I'm still a believer in offloading processing of audio. I'm familiar with arguments that modern processors are powerful enough and motherboard audio hardware sufficiently advanced that the performance benefits of discrete sound cards are inconsequential. However I have yet to see an actual analysis done to produce performance data supporting or refuting that position.
> 
> I certainly want to avoid keeping the X4 (desk real estate) so if the Z SE turns out not to be able to send virtual 7.1 out the optical connection I might give Redscape a try; I see they have a 15-day return period for the $40. Alternatively I could try my wacky idea of adding an AE-5 to handle output duties and keep the Z SE.



Redscape is better than Creative's VSS.  I owned an AE-9.  It doesn't compare to a real external DAC with Redscape.

However, if you need the desk space, the AE-9 is a solid sound card, especially since you can swap out the op-amps to enhance its sound quality.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Thanks @duranxv, appreciate the thoughts. I might give it a go after all. 

This evening I was doing some side-by-side comparisons between the Z SE and the X4. I noted that the Z SE outputs optical at 24bit/96kHz while the X4 does 24bit/192kHz. Listening to the same sources via both I'm almost thinking I can detect a very slight improvement from the X4 but honestly I'm not certain; should I expect to hear a difference there or is it all in my head?

It might sound like a bit of a silly question but if there is an audible difference then that would determine which I keep should I switch to going with Redscape + DAC.


----------



## duranxv

JdeFalconr said:


> Thanks @duranxv, appreciate the thoughts. I might give it a go after all.
> 
> This evening I was doing some side-by-side comparisons between the Z SE and the X4. I noted that the Z SE outputs optical at 24bit/96kHz while the X4 does 24bit/192kHz. Listening to the same sources via both I'm almost thinking I can detect a very slight improvement from the X4 but honestly I'm not certain; should I expect to hear a difference there or is it all in my head?
> 
> It might sound like a bit of a silly question but if there is an audible difference then that would determine which I keep should I switch to going with Redscape + DAC.



For gaming, it won't make a difference since most game audio is 24bit/48kHz


----------



## JdeFalconr

So I tried Redscape tonight and I don't know that I like it. Just like Atmos everything is much more...spacy, airy sounding and distributed. It's like the center channel is MIA and all the other speakers are really far from you. Creative's virtual 7.1 somehow brought everything much closer to you (comparatively) while also managing to create a sense of space. I'll give it another night or two and fiddle with settings more than I did but thus far I'm not quite feeling it, so to speak.

I definitely don't like what Redscape does to music, even on the music pre-set. Fortunately this Beacn Mix Create lets me assign my music applications to a different virtual device that Redscape isn't outputting to. That lets me apply spatial effects to game audio while skipping it for music applications and then ties it all together to a single output device.


----------



## duranxv

JdeFalconr said:


> So I tried Redscape tonight and I don't know that I like it. Just like Atmos everything is much more...spacy, airy sounding and distributed. It's like the center channel is MIA and all the other speakers are really far from you. Creative's virtual 7.1 somehow brought everything much closer to you (comparatively) while also managing to create a sense of space. I'll give it another night or two and fiddle with settings more than I did but thus far I'm not quite feeling it, so to speak.
> 
> I definitely don't like what Redscape does to music, even on the music pre-set. Fortunately this Beacn Mix Create lets me assign my music applications to a different virtual device that Redscape isn't outputting to. That lets me apply spatial effects to game audio while skipping it for music applications and then ties it all together to a single output device.



Set the room setting to 25% on Redscape. I find that works best.  Also, in the options, you can set the dB levels of the different speakers.  I like to reduce the dB for the rear channels so that they're more obvious to me. You can also mess with the ear size and head width settings as well.

For music, turn the power button off on Redscape (but don't close it).  That will make it go from 7.1 surround to 5.1 surround.  Music sounds much better on it that way.  The reason why people mistakenly believe music sounds better on Atmos or Creative is because they force your sound device to go into Stereo and then they emulate 7.1 surround.  Redcsape does true 7.1 surround, so music can often sound a bit strange on it.


----------



## JdeFalconr

duranxv said:


> Set the room setting to 25% on Redscape. I find that works best.  Also, in the options, you can set the dB levels of the different speakers.  I like to reduce the dB for the rear channels so that they're more obvious to me. You can also mess with the ear size and head width settings as well.
> 
> For music, turn the power button off on Redscape (but don't close it).  That will make it go from 7.1 surround to 5.1 surround.  Music sounds much better on it that way.  The reason why people mistakenly believe music sounds better on Atmos or Creative is because they force your sound device to go into Stereo and then they emulate 7.1 surround.  Redcsape does true 7.1 surround, so music can often sound a bit strange on it.


Thank you! I'll definitely try and fiddle with those settings tomorrow night. What's your experience been with latency? I see that it's asking for a requested latency value. Even the minimum 10ms concerns me.


----------



## duranxv

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you! I'll definitely try and fiddle with those settings tomorrow night. What's your experience been with latency? I see that it's asking for a requested latency value. Even the minimum 10ms concerns me.



As long as your latency is below 25-30ms, you'll be fine for gaming.  Generally you should go for the lowest latency possible unless you're noticing pops or dropouts in your audio.


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## Chastity (Mar 10, 2022)

Don't forget to go into Redscape's settings and adjust the Anatomy Customizations to best match yourself.  (Experiment with it in a game)  For music, I output my music apps direct to my DAC and bypass Redscape.

If you use an actual 5.1 or 7.1 system then I guess a sound card is ok, but only if you use a multimedia system.  If using your own multichannel system, then just HDMI to your AV receiver.


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## JdeFalconr (Mar 11, 2022)

So I played with settings a bit more tonight. I was able to improve things for Redscape, improving the clarity and immediacy of some of the effects. But I just can't shake a slight airy, high-frequency sound to all of the audio. The spaciousness is there and it's immense, which could be cool. But everything has a very processed, artificial sound to it. Even dialog and other sounds right in front of your face are seemingly rendered through the left and right channels instead of a center-channel effect. Alternatively I could describe it by almost everything coming through with a tiny amount of reverb.

Altering Head Width all the way up helped some as did playing with the volume knob and the Room setting. But I just couldn't quite get it right-sounding. I compared against the X4 outputting optical to the Atom+ and so far I think I prefer that route unless you guys have some magical suggestions.

I may give the AE-5 a shot in the interest of having less physical gear outside my computer to deal with. But on the other hand I noted that the X4 stacks nearly perfectly on top of the Atom+ which is nice for footprint reasons. Given how long I've been working on getting things _just right_ I am tempted to just keep the X4, use that and spend my energy enjoying my setup.

EDIT: I'm going to ask the dumb question here to make sure I get it right. I've never used Creative's "Acoustic Engine" (see https://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=200282&c for an example) or the surround features there; I frankly thought it sounds terrible. Even without it, though, in all the games I've played I've had positional audio that sounded just fine. Is this Acoustic Engine thing just some additional processing that enhances virtual surround? Or is it the entirety of virtual surround for Creative products and I've had it turned off somehow the whole time? If so then I have no idea how I've been getting positional audio in my games. This evening I was able to switch between output direct to my Atom+ DAC and output via my X4 and I could swear they sounded identical.

But then again maybe this is more of a terminology issue: Am I conflating "virtual 7.1"/"virtual surround" and "positional audio"/"spatial audio"? Is the situation really that the Creative product basically just provides upmixing of a source to 7.1 if it isn't already presented in that fashion and the "Audio Engine" feature just adds spatial effects? If so that would explain why my DAC and X4 both sounded the same from BF2042 if the game had its own virtual surround implementation.


----------



## Chastity

If your game (console or otherwise) is generating it's own HRTF stereo mix, then you should NOT be using SBX / SXFi as you will be processing it twice.


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## JdeFalconr (Mar 11, 2022)

Chastity said:


> If your game (console or otherwise) is generating it's own HRTF stereo mix, then you should NOT be using SBX / SXFi as you will be processing it twice.


That was my concern as well, but I tried fiddling with audio settings a bit and had trouble getting a result. I normally have this set to the Surround option. I would think Mono would be ideal - output it in "native" 5.1 and let my other stuff deal with the processing. But for whatever reason my setup just treats that as a truly one-channel source and outputs it as such. Which option would you suggest here?


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## Leberkassemmel (Mar 11, 2022)

Im also trying Redscape with Apex Legends and my DT1990 (analytical pads) for a few hours. In the beginning i was really disappointed, I really didnt like the default settings. After I changed the settings a bit (Head Width all the way to the left, Room to 0 and LFE to -10db) it got better, but im still not really happy, even on the smallest room setting it still has too much reverb for my liking.

I usually run HeSuvi with oal_dflt and for me its much better than Redscape for competitive play. Well, I can hear where sounds are coming from with redscape, i also think i can hear better if an enemy is above or below me with redscape, but as soon as the action starts (gunshots, rockets, grenades) i really struggle to pick up footsteps and other sound cues of enemys. I also feel like its harder to pick up sound cues of enemys, which are a bit further away, than with Hesuvi.


Some other thoughts about Redscape:

Its a bit annyoing, that there is no number value on the volume/room wheels and turning it with the mouse can also be a bit awkward. Yes i know that u can use your mouse wheel too, i would still prefer it to be able to put in an exact value. Not being able to put in numbers is also annyoing in the Equalizer, its basically impossible to put in the the exact number you want just with the wheel.

I really like its ability to output to Asio tho. So even if im not happy with Surround-Sound simulation it does, i can just deactivate it, install HeSuvi on it and use it as a low latency bridge to my DAC.


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## JdeFalconr (Mar 11, 2022)

OK I played with settings again during my lunch break from work and I think I have a better grasp on all of this now. I get that while virtual surround provides _n_ virtual channels that are right "on" your head spatial audio virtually moves all the sounds "outside" your head and positions them in a virtual "soundscape" around you. I see too that BF2042 was indeed creating its own 5.1 mix, including positioning.

I was able to get Creative's spatial audio working on top of the virtual surround and compare it against Redscape. Very interesting hearing the differences! Creative to me sounds more focused and closer to you while maintaining the large soundscape. Redscape, meanwhile, felt like it extends all sounds farther "outside" your head. I think Redscape did a better job of creating an expansive soundscape but the cost was that I felt all of the sounds it creates were less focused and had more of a spacy, processed sound. To be fair both solutions had that spacy, processed quality to them, with a hint of high-frequency sound added, with the Creative one to my ears having less of that for sounds that played closer to you. I did feel in both that position cues from the audio were more precise though I didn't get a handle on which one I felt offered higher precision.

I noticed while looking at Redscape's channel monitors (super-handy, by the way!) that in BF2042 and Valheim that it almost exclusively used the left and right channels, using some of the surround channels for atmosphere and it only seems to use the center channel for dialog. For a time I thought maybe it was only doing 5.1 but nope, it was 7.1 but not using most of the channels. Interesting. I wish I had a monitor like that which would evaluate the audio for any application so I could compare to Creative's solution.

Turning off that spatial audio indeed brought all the sounds much "closer" to my head. I'll have to decide whether or not I prefer that to a spatial solution and to what extent I can deal with that spacy, processed sound of spatial audio.


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## Chastity

Redscape isn't a VSS that you typically encounter.  Things like Dolby Access, SBX, etc are an open field surround, where the distance and cues are in an open space.  Redscape is simulating a room with speakers, replete with wall reflections, with the number of speakers according to how many you set.  So yes, it will not sound like SBX, as Redscape is recreating a 7.1 speaker system in an ideal room environment on your headphones.  So the left and right fronts along with the center channel will sound "ahead" of you.  It can still do positional audio, and do it really well, but just remember that it's a room simulator and you will get audio reflections too.


----------



## Viggen66

Has anyone notice here, but whenever I turn on SXFI, the volume of the GC7 just goes down considerably when comparing to non SXFI modes, also most of the details are simply gone after SXFI is working, which is very weird.


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## JdeFalconr

Well schitt, my beautiful Asgard just developed a buzz in the left channel. Time to test their customer service.


----------



## deafenears

Does the GC7 work well with an LCD-GX or LCD-XC (being same sensitivity and impedance)? Both 15Ohm impedance where the GC7 spec says 32 - 300Ω with output impedance 10Ω. Also, does it provide enough output power for these HPs? @Mad Lust Envy, maybe you've tried and know?


----------



## Playstation

hello

short of learning about condenser mics and phantom power. does anyone know if an at2020 plugged directly into a ps4 would work? on the amazon questions and answers, someone said yes. 

thought i would double check here before making a purchase


thanks


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## AxelCloris (Mar 20, 2022)

An AT2020USB+ can be plugged directly into a PS4 and it'll recognize it as a "headset," yes. If you have the XLR AT2020, then you're going to need a driverless interface for it to be compatible. I've had luck doing that with the MicPort from CEntrance. If you've yet to buy a mic, buy this version: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2020USB-Cardioid-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B00B5ZX9FM


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## Mad Lust Envy (Mar 20, 2022)

deafenears said:


> Does the GC7 work well with an LCD-GX or LCD-XC (being same sensitivity and impedance)? Both 15Ohm impedance where the GC7 spec says 32 - 300Ω with output impedance 10Ω. Also, does it provide enough output power for these HPs? @Mad Lust Envy, maybe you've tried and know?


The GX is quite efficient and you'll be fine with the GC7. Not the most optimal amplifier for the GX, but it'll be fine.

Note that as the GC7 has a 10ohm output impedance, and the GX/XC are low impedance, you'll have a really low damp factor. But in the case of planars. that isn't much of a concern. Not ideal, but I'm sure you wouldn't notice anything. Not enough electrical dampening mainly affects dynamic drivers. Planars are relatively unaffected.

@AxelCloris I've been eyeing that mic for years. I really want one. Just don't wanna spend the money lol. That and the Rode NT USB.

To be fair, mics are something I have little knowledge of, and I'd probably be fine with some cheap thingy that isn't my lapel mic that I have pointed at me, below my monitor, lol.


----------



## dunring

sdang said:


> Thanks! AD1000x over the 700x?


Yeah certainly if it's in the budget. Every time I buy and sell a pair of the AD1000x it's the easiest headphone to hear things behind you. Also singers like Sia and Ellie Goulding sound their best. A Soundblaster AE-7 plugged into the back is best, but a G6 in low gain mode with -2db or 85 percent volume is best for the highest SINAD score, which is easy to maintain with the AD1000x.


----------



## Chastity




----------



## tmaxx123

Just realized that the X7 has been removed from soundblasters site.... Pretty sure it was there about a week ago. I don't want to get my hopes up, but hopefully a successor is on the way.


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## JdeFalconr

Not sure who here is particularly knowledgeable about Equalizer APO but I'm having trouble with some basic usage questions:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/equalizer-apo-basic-config-questions.962688/

Documentation is sadly quite lacking and I've had difficulty finding writeups or even videos describing some basic usage, just people showing how to do very specific things without actually explaining the underlying concepts.


----------



## wowsuchricky

This is awesome, thanks so much. I have so many friends who ask me for advice for gaming headphones that aren't headsets, I'll definitely be linking them here.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Amy I crazy but I noticed there’s now a Schiit Hel 2E. Is this a revision the the Hel 2 with the E suffix? Can’t seem to find any info on the change. Looking to power 700x on PS5 and XsX. Might just get the G6 since it’s more versatile.


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## deafenears (Mar 26, 2022)

Helvetica bold said:


> Amy I crazy but I noticed there’s now a Schiit Hel 2E. Is this a revision the the Hel 2 with the E suffix? Can’t seem to find any info on the change. Looking to power 700x on PS5 and XsX. Might just get the G6 since it’s more versatile.


I believe that's *E* for ESS ES9018.

EDIT: Here - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-5393#post-16525319


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## JdeFalconr

Finally got my replacement K712 Pro's from Thomann and wow, the treble is gorgeous so far. Looking forward to gaming with them later and REALLY looking forward to getting my Asgard back.


----------



## simtmb (Apr 4, 2022)

The battery of my ATH-G1WLs completely died awhile back so it has to be wired. Ended up just using other headsets of course but randomly figured I'd check for a quote!
$115 AUD quote for a battery replacement, expensive, but they are selling me the battery itself (~$45) which is nice.
Main issue with these wireless headsets I guess, especially those that don't provide an easy swap.


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## greyforest

is there any new good virtual surround option now? other than wave nx and ootyh superxfi


----------



## MarkDraconian

greyforest said:


> is there any new good virtual surround option now? other than wave nx and ootyh superxfi


Redscape audio maybe? I would also like to know if there is something new or promising to be released soon.


----------



## Chastity

greyforest said:


> is there any new good virtual surround option now? other than wave nx and ootyh superxfi


Redscape is my go to for 7.1 VSS.  I would contact the author and ask him if there are any currently active coupons for his product.  I did that and he set up a code for 20% off, making it $32.  There's also Dolby Access and DTS Sound Unbound, which are great if the game supports Atmos or DTS:X, and great for TV/movie watching. (I have licenses for all three)


----------



## Viggen66

Has anyone notice, whenever I turn on SXFI, volume and details just go down, is a weird effect.


----------



## p1zzap1e (Apr 11, 2022)

God damn Battlefield has the best sound when it comes to fps games. Some of the bf games easily has the best sound in gaming as a whole.. Started BF4 again last week after playing a lot of bf1 lately. Got the best sound when i turned off dolby atmos and just had stereo on. Using a g6 with my t50rp mayflower mod. The sound is sooooo good. Every other fps game sound like they are using airsoft guns.


----------



## JdeFalconr

p1zzap1e said:


> God damn Battlefield has the best sound when it comes to fps games. Some of the bf games easily has the best sound in gaming as a whole.. Started BF4 again last week after playing a lot of bf1 lately. Got the best sound when i turned off dolby atmos and just had stereo on. Using a g6 with my t50rp mayflower mod. The sound is sooooo good. Every other fps game sound like they are using airsoft guns.


Definitely agree the BF series does very well with audio. In my opinion I have yet to hear anything top Destiny/D2 for sound design, though.


----------



## p1zzap1e

JdeFalconr said:


> Definitely agree the BF series does very well with audio. In my opinion I have yet to hear anything top Destiny/D2 for sound design, though.


Ohhh yeah its good. Really immersive sound, like the space walk in deep stone crypt. But i dont think it topps bf4 och bf1. The guns sound a little to metallic. Like the ace of spades, sounds a little too "clanky".


----------



## revolutionz

p1zzap1e said:


> God damn Battlefield has the best sound when it comes to fps games. Some of the bf games easily has the best sound in gaming as a whole.. Started BF4 again last week after playing a lot of bf1 lately. Got the best sound when i turned off dolby atmos and just had stereo on. Using a g6 with my t50rp mayflower mod. The sound is sooooo good. Every other fps game sound like they are using airsoft guns.




Would be nice if Warzone took a page out of their book, I only get footstep audio about 50% of the time in game...it's so frustrating.


----------



## Playstation

I have standalone headphones and a standalone mic. I game on console, using an amp. I want to hear people on pc and the console game audio through the same headphones, at the same time


----------



## JdeFalconr

Playstation said:


> I have standalone headphones and a standalone mic. I game on console, using an amp. I want to hear people on pc and the console game audio through the same headphones, at the same time


Are you using an application like Discord on the PC for chat? 

Also does your PC happen to have an optical-in?


----------



## Playstation

JdeFalconr said:


> Are you using an application like Discord on the PC for chat? *YES*
> 
> Also does your PC happen to have an optical-in? *NO*


----------



## JdeFalconr

The way I do what you're trying to (combine PC and console audio) is to run optical out from the console to an optical-in on your PC and then output from your PC to whatever device you want, your existing amp included. Depending on the console (Xbox Series X specifically) you may need an HDMI audio extractor to get optical-out. I'm not sure about dedicated optical-to-USB adapters (if you don't want to buy a sound card just for optical-in), I'd have to think something like that must exist.

Depending on your console platform you can also run their application on the PC for native party chat (e.g. Xbox app) to talk with your buddies on console. The other nice thing about such a setup is that if your output device supports game/chat mixing those chat applications will be identified by Windows as communication applications.


----------



## PurpleAngel

I'm so old, I've been computer gaming (not talking about video arcade gaming) since 1979.
It was on a main frame, using those dummy consoles, I believe it was Star Trek.


----------



## Trancefreak

Just received the HEL2E.
Amazing little thing, though a tad expensive ( Am in EU and had to import from USA ).
At this time it drives a Gen 1 Beyer MMX300 600Ohm. Sounds about as good as the G6 I had before w/o all the hassle. Just plug and play!

Love it!


----------



## Vandarkholme

My DT990 pro paired up with a Soundblaster x g6 just broke down and I think I'm ready to go for a more expensive cans since it blew me away just how good it is when gaming. Can anyone recommend some headphones that are better compared to a DT990 Pro in terms of soundstage and sound quality?


----------



## darky_mtp

How did you manage to broke Beyer headphones ?


----------



## Vandarkholme (Apr 22, 2022)

darky_mtp said:


> How did you manage to broke Beyer headphones ?


I honestly don't know. Both drivers suddenly stopped working during use. *They lasted for years so I'm satisfied enough


----------



## Chastity

Vandarkholme said:


> My DT990 pro paired up with a Soundblaster x g6 just broke down and I think I'm ready to go for a more expensive cans since it blew me away just how good it is when gaming. Can anyone recommend some headphones that are better compared to a DT990 Pro in terms of soundstage and sound quality?


If you plan to continue to use the G6 then stick to cans that are easier to drive.  If you thought the DT-990  Pro were good on the G6, they get better on better amplification.  For an upgrade, you can consider it's bigger brother the DT-1990 Pro, and iirc thomannmusic.com has the best current pricing on those.  Audio Technica ATH-R70X, Monoprice Monolith M1070 or M1570.  (I don't recommend Hifiman due to quality assurance crapshoot), Mackie MC-250/350/450, Kennerton Magni / Ghallahorn.

I would also recommend getting an amp, or even a stack.   The quality out of my stack utterly destroys G6 analog out, which sounds grainy and rolled off in bass response in comparison to the stack.


----------



## MarkDraconian (Apr 28, 2022)

So it seems that Waves will release at some point an app called MaxxPlay, that could be the updated version of Waves NX, i suppose?
It has more features/functions, and to me better UI for NX:

Link for the video:  and some screenshots


----------



## Chastity (Apr 29, 2022)

I'm all up for a NX update, and I hope current licensees can get a discount.

EDIT:  After looking it seems the new software will only be available bundled with hardware.  D:


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> I'm all up for a NX update, and I hope current licensees can get a discount.
> 
> EDIT:  After looking it seems the new software will only be available bundled with hardware.  D:



Where do you see that?


----------



## Chastity

duranxv said:


> Where do you see that?


MaxxPlay.com


----------



## duranxv

Chastity said:


> MaxxPlay.com



I was on there - maybe I missed it, but I think one of the solutions they had is hardware-coupled, but there were two others.  I was getting the impression from their demonstration vid that this would be a standalone app or something.  I could be totally wrong though


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 2, 2022)

I do know Waves is making some...waves (totally not intended), but I haven't been privvy to the information. I just know it sounds exciting and enticing to our demographic.

I've been mainly hardlocked to Tales of Arise for like the past few...months, and I think I'm FINALLY reaching the end, so I'll move on to to other games.

Eiyuuden Chronicle Rising is coming out, and it will also be on game pass, so I'm super invested as a Suikoden fanboy, which I backed the real Eiyuuden years ago onm Kickstarter.

After that it's either do that fan-remaster of Valkyroe Profile: Silmeria, or re-play Tales of Vesperia.

Nothing that really calls the need for headphones, but ah well.

I will be in Chicago in June 17-20 for CanJam, so any of you peeps go, meet me at the Audeze booth. Then we can geek out a bit.


----------



## duranxv

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I do know Waves is making some...waves (totally not intended), but I haven't been privvy to the information. I just know it sounds exciting and enticing to our demographic.
> 
> I've been mainly hardlocked to Tales of Arise for like the past few...months, and I think I'm FINALLY reaching the end, so I'll move on to to other games.
> 
> ...



God of War PC perhaps?   Now that's a game that rewards a good audio chain


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

duranxv said:


> God of War PC perhaps?   Now that's a game that rewards a good audio chain


Eh I played it on console release. Don't feel like revisiting. Great game, mind you, but not a game I'd replay.

I have like a 40% playthrough of Horizon Forbidden West I can return to, but I'm waiting for a hopeful 40hz or VRR mode.


----------



## Playstation

anyone have any thoughts on?
Turtle Beach Elite Pro 2 + SuperAmp Performance Gaming Headset​
they seem to have received a weak review from a rating website. this headset is pretty heavy at 2lbs. the features i like are the headband, cooling gel earpads that supposedly work well with glasses, and perhaps a decent mic. not sure if using the app is necessary. 

anyways, i was initially curious, as they would be an alternative to the Astro headset and mixamp. unless you buy a standalone vss mixamp, the headset and mixamp market appears to be quite limited. 

maybe i'll just pair my x2hr's with the soundblaster g5. 

i've exclusively used stereo audio, though, i am still curious about vss. not sure if would benefit me much as i rarely play fps games. still curious if the vss would add to my immersion in rpg's, horror, adventure games etc

p.s. my x2hr's are still my go to headphones, even over my he4xx.


----------



## Monty1089 (May 7, 2022)

Hey guys.

I need some help. I am looking to buy an open back gaming headset to use on my PS5.

Open back because I want to hear my surroundings so closed back headset is definitely out of contention. 

I say headset and not headphones because pretty much all the good headphones will sound crap on the console as console sound isn't that great. Buying a dac/amp will just get expensive so I will stick with a headset (built in mic).

I have narrowed down my choices to three:

1. Drop pc38x - seems to universally liked by many for gaming. Has flip to mute mic. Most expensive compared to the rest. Price is $169
2. Audio Technica ATH-GDL3 - fairly new and not many reviews. Not sure on how it compares to the ADG1x. Price is $129
3. Audio Technica ATH-ADG1x - fairly old headset but can buy it brand new for just over $100. Based around the AD900x and has a great mic. Price around $100.

There are a few other choices like Epos h6 pro (open), gsp 500 but many still prefer the PC38x for gaming. Not everyone loves the pc38x though. It's like a hit and miss for some.

My aim is to hear footsteps. I play fps games like Call of Duty, Battlefield 5, Rainbow six siege, Apex legends. I would like a good soundstage so I can judge distance of gunfire etc.

Can anyone share any thoughts on my above three choices or are there any other open back headsets I should be looking at as well?

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Eh I played it on console release. Don't feel like revisiting. Great game, mind you, but not a game I'd replay.
> 
> I have like a 40% playthrough of Horizon Forbidden West I can return to, but I'm waiting for a hopeful 40hz or VRR mode.


Ha same after playing Spider Man Remastered with 40fps fidelity mode I put HFW on hold hoping for a patch. 
How do the Penrose sound with the PS5 tempest engine? I actually started to finally enjoy BF2042 which after the latest patch is playing and sounding better. I know you work for Audeze so you're the man to ask.   On the other hand I do have the 700x from my BF4 days, I just need something to drive them.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Helvetica bold said:


> Ha same after playing Spider Man Remastered with 40fps fidelity mode I put HFW on hold hoping for a patch.
> How do the Penrose sound with the PS5 tempest engine? I actually started to finally enjoy BF2042 which after the latest patch is playing and sounding better. I know you work for Audeze so you're the man to ask.   On the other hand I do have the 700x from my BF4 days, I just need something to drive them.



Tempest engine is hit or miss, sadly. OFC when it works, sounds good with Penrose. I just prefer using other DSPs. Tempest probably my least fave readily available. So for PS5, I'd rather just plug in to a Mixamp with Dolby headphone, or the GC7 for SBX/SXFI.


----------



## Viggen66

Does anyone here likes SXFI effects?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I do. It takes getting used to, but in terms of raw positional accuracy, SXFI is one of the best. With virtual surround, there is always gonna be the trade off of headphones sounding weird, because they aren't meant to sound like headphones anymore. They're emulating a room full of speakers. Once you get accustomed to the notion that you're comparing it to speakers and not a headphone, it's easier to digest.

SXFI has a very obvious room effect, so it'll be more obvious a change than say SBX or Tempest Audio.


----------



## PhenixS1970

Hi All, classifieds listed for an Astro 50 gen4 PS, PC & Mac.


----------



## Viggen66

My issue when using SXFI is that analog signal is connected to a bluetooth transmitter and sound is compressed, sxfi really looses lots of details on this process, on SBX and other DSP I don't notice much.


----------



## Born Again Gamer

Hi everyone.

I'm returning to PC gaming after a long time away (about 10 years), so I'm a bit lost when it comes to 2022 PC gaming audio.

Back in the day I was using Sennheiser 555s with a Creative X-Fi card of some sort (maybe Gamer). I found CMSS to be pretty good at the time IIRC. The set-up wasn't anything special but it worked for me with the games I was playing at the time. I was hoping to adopt a similar set-up for my new PC (albeit with a higher budget), but I see so many choices available now; internal vs external cards, software vs hardware for VSS, HRTF solutions, not to mention lots of gamers simply using good cans with desktop headphone amps. It's a lot to take in!

So rather than ask for specific headphone recommendations, I first need to get the basics down. I don't want to be rude/lazy and ask a load of questions in my first post either, so I'll start with just one;

Software VSS - apart from having to find one that works for _you_, do they have any inherent disadvantages? 

Thanks!


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Software VSS is fine, and their only disadvantage is possible latency which may or may not be noticeable for you.

Since you can set buffer length, and its nearly impossible to notice a 2 frame difference, I wouldn't worry about it.

Redscape Audio is a fantastic software choice, and my go to. No need to tweak 8 million things. Just download it, set whatever audio device you want it to affect, set it as the default audio device, and you're essentially good to go.


----------



## Born Again Gamer

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Software VSS is fine, and their only disadvantage is possible latency which may or may not be noticeable for you.
> 
> Since you can set buffer length, and its nearly impossible to notice a 2 frame difference, I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> Redscape Audio is a fantastic software choice, and my go to. No need to tweak 8 million things. Just download it, set whatever audio device you want it to affect, set it as the default audio device, and you're essentially good to go.


Thanks, MLE. Appreciate the response.

I imagine latency wouldn't be a huge issue then. Redscape looks interesting. Do you use it with the head tracker yourself?

I should really try out demos for a few of these solutions then to see (or rather hear) if I can find one that works for me. I suppose a lot depends not just on an individual's ears, but on the actual games they're playing too. That is, some do sound a lot better than others!


----------



## PurpleAngel

Born Again Gamer said:


> Hi everyone.
> I'm returning to PC gaming after a long time away (about 10 years), so I'm a bit lost when it comes to 2022 PC gaming audio.
> Back in the day I was using Sennheiser 555s with a Creative X-Fi card of some sort (maybe Gamer). I found CMSS to be pretty good at the time IIRC. The set-up wasn't anything special but it worked for me with the games I was playing at the time. I was hoping to adopt a similar set-up for my new PC (albeit with a higher budget), but I see so many choices available now; internal vs external cards, software vs hardware for VSS, HRTF solutions, not to mention lots of gamers simply using good cans with desktop headphone amps. It's a lot to take in!
> So rather than ask for specific headphone recommendations, I first need to get the basics down. I don't want to be rude/lazy and ask a load of questions in my first post either, so I'll start with just one; Software VSS - apart from having to find one that works for _you_, do they have any inherent disadvantages?


To me, going with an external USB DAC/amp, provides the best chance of great audio quality.
Going with an external DAC/amp, would allow you have many choices for software based headphone surround sound, assuming you really like FPS gaming.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (May 18, 2022)

Born Again Gamer said:


> Thanks, MLE. Appreciate the response.
> 
> I imagine latency wouldn't be a huge issue then. Redscape looks interesting. Do you use it with the head tracker yourself?
> 
> I should really try out demos for a few of these solutions then to see (or rather hear) if I can find one that works for me. I suppose a lot depends not just on an individual's ears, but on the actual games they're playing too. That is, some do sound a lot better than others!


I do have the headtracker, but it's not something I've used since the review period.

It's a cool tech (which is similar to the Audeze Mobius, just as an attachment you can use with any headphone), but it's a bit unwieldy in that you have to affix to the headphone headband, and have to deal with the wires.

It's really useful and functional otherwise.

As for Redscape, I use it with external dac/amps, as it affects anything the PC reads as a sound device.

So for me:

Redscape audio virtual surround to my Schiit Modius which is attached to my Schiit Jotunheim 2 when I'm on my desk. If I'm playing on my TV, I set Redscape to output to my TV, and have a wireless Mixamp 5.8 which is attached to my TV's optical out.

Just bear in mind to set Redscape as the sound device, and make sure the program is opened. Otherwise you'll get no sound.

Like PurpleAngel said, if you're doing more than just PC use, I would recommend something external like a Creative G6 which will work on PC through USB, as well as consoles/TVs (that have an optical out with Dolby Digital). In the case of a PS5, you can use it via USB there, but won't utilize the internal surround to the fullest, so you'll want to set it to stereo, and use the PS5's tempest 3D audio.


----------



## Born Again Gamer

PurpleAngel said:


> To me, going with an external USB DAC/amp, provides the best chance of great audio quality.
> Going with an external DAC/amp, would allow you have many choices for software based headphone surround sound, assuming you really like FPS gaming.


Thanks, that sways me a little as I do definitely want to up my music-listening game too.

And while I do really like FPS gaming, I don't foresee I'll be playing competitively any time soon. For me, surround was always more about accurate directional cues adding to the immersion, rather than giving me an edge in competition (if that makes sense). So software -> external DAC/amp makes sense perhaps.



Mad Lust Envy said:


> As for Redscape, I use it with external dac/amps, as it affects anything the PC reads as a sound device.
> 
> So for me:
> 
> ...


Great info, thanks again! I might pick up a PS5 at some stage, but I don't see myself playing first person games on it and would probably be in the office at the PC monitor anyway, so wouldn't need a separate solution for a TV.

I did take a look at the G6. In fact my brother-in-law has one so I may try to borrow it for a few days of testing. This could be a very dumb question so apologies in advance. Is it possible to use a G6 (for example) for the sound processing, and then run that to an audiophile DAC/amp where the headphones would be attached? I seem to remember some reviews for one piece of hardware saying that it wasn't powerful enough for thirsty headphones. Maybe some Sennheiser VSS unit??

Thanks again to both of you by the way. Much appreciated!


----------



## Chastity

Born Again Gamer said:


> Thanks, that sways me a little as I do definitely want to up my music-listening game too.
> 
> And while I do really like FPS gaming, I don't foresee I'll be playing competitively any time soon. For me, surround was always more about accurate directional cues adding to the immersion, rather than giving me an edge in competition (if that makes sense). So software -> external DAC/amp makes sense perhaps.
> 
> ...


You can set the G6 to apply it's HRTF to the rear output, and the same port is both analog and toslink.  It's limited in samplerates, however.  So you can use a 3.5mm toslink to standard toslink  cable to your desired DAC.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Doesn't the G6 have a an odd voice chat set up with PS5 or it doesn't support it at all? What would be the next best thing, Schiit's Hel 2E?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah Fulla 4e or Hel 2e would be perfect and easy.


----------



## revolutionz

So I saw this today looking at the new Asus motherboard for the upcoming AMD CPUs.... caught my attention. Wonder how it will be, tempted to try it.

Audiophiles, take notice​If visuals take the front seat when it comes to gaming, audio is riding shotgun. For immersive, pristine audio from your speaker system and your headset, the audio chips and associated circuitry on ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme has been scrupulously designed for crystal-clear sound processing and output.







It starts with a SupremeFX 7.1 Surround Sound audio solution with integrated amplifiers and op-amps. The audio circuit design uses premium capacitors, interference shielding, and discrete traces for the left and right channels. Auto impedance detection lets you use even high-impedance audiophile headphones and get crystal-clear, distortion-free output. An ESS ES9218PQ Quad DAC pumps top-notch audio to the front-panel output with an exceptional 130 dB signal-to-noise ratio, perfect for plugging in a high-end headset.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Aren't their Extreme boards normally $1k+?


----------



## revolutionz

JdeFalconr said:


> Aren't their Extreme boards normally $1k+?



I guess I'm not sure, historically I've run MSI boards


----------



## Helvetica bold

I just noticed Steel Series has a new hi-end Nova Pro headset, wired and wireless. Im interested in the GameDAC Gen 2 since it works with 
both current get consoles via USB.

https://steelseries.com/gaming-headsets/arctis-nova-pro-xbox

Pretty good review
https://www.theverge.com/23132836/steelseries-nova-pro-wireless-review-gaming-bluetooth-anc


----------



## AxelCloris

I'm curious about that Nova Pro myself, so hopefully some folks here will be able to get their hands on one for a review or two.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I bought a set of the Nova Pro Wireless (Xbox version - which I'm using with Xbox, PS5 and PC) yesterday and have been using them for a day or so - will try to give some views over the next day or so.


----------



## JdeFalconr (May 26, 2022)

One thing to consider is that Steelseries has no out-of-warranty repair options. If something goes wrong after their two-year warranty then you're on your own to fix it. I love their products and was happy to support them until my $320 Arctis Pro Wireless began having issues and I had to ditch it. It was my third Steelseries headset to have problems in the span of roughly four years.


----------



## Chastity

Saw that Boom 3D is on sale on Steam, so decided to try it out.  For gaming and multichannel audio purposes, it is full of fail.  As of 1.2.4, they started using a Virtual Audio device, much like others, to collect the audio stream, and feed it to your DAC.  The caveat:  the VAD only supports setting Windows to Stereo.  So their "3D Surround" is a virtual surround mixer, and not collecting 7.1 to create HRTF.  Fail.  FAIL HARD.


----------



## Chastity

During my testing, I noticed another caveat that you should take into consideration when choosing a Surround solution:  whether you listen to multiple sources while gaming.  With the Windows Audio plug-ins (Sonics, Dolby Access, DTS:X) it's attached direct to your audio device, so you cannot have any audio sources that aren't passed through the virtualizer.  Whereas apps like Redscape and Waves NX have a virtual audio device, and you can set that to your Default sound device, so that games and movies go through them, and have your music players / streams go direct to your DAC and be unmolested.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> During my testing, I noticed another caveat that you should take into consideration when choosing a Surround solution:  whether you listen to multiple sources while gaming.  With the Windows Audio plug-ins (Sonics, Dolby Access, DTS:X) it's attached direct to your audio device, so you cannot have any audio sources that aren't passed through the virtualizer.  Whereas apps like Redscape and Waves NX have a virtual audio device, and you can set that to your Default sound device, so that games and movies go through them, and have your music players / streams go direct to your DAC and be unmolested.


Those virtual audio devices I've found to be super convenient, especially with Equalizer APO. If, for instance, you set your music application to output to one device and your games to another device it would let you set different EQ configs per device.

Huge fan of how the Beacn Mix Create creates those virtual devices and lets you mix them. I'm loving that device.


----------



## Helvetica bold (May 31, 2022)

Been testing out the Nova Pro wired on the XsX & PS5  and so far Im impressed. I played Spider Man Remastered, BF2042, Ace Combat 7 and Division 2 and they all sounded crisp and sharp with nice detail. I even tested the Koss KPH40 with the new DAC and it sounds great. Its only been a day with the Nova's but so far so good. I’ll post further impressions later this week. Its pretty awesome its the first USB DAC that I know of that works with both the Series X and PS5.


----------



## Playstation

Helvetica bold said:


> Been testing out the Nova Pro wired on the XsX & PS5  and so far Im impressed. I played Spider Man Remastered, BF2042, Ace Combat 7 and Division 2 and they all sounded crisp and sharp with nice detail. I even tested the Koss KPH40 with the new DAC and it sounds great. Its only been a day with the Nova's but so far so good. I’ll post further impressions later this week. Its pretty awesome its the first USB DAC that I know of that works with both the Series X and PS5.


 I just picked up the Nova pro(wired). I know half the price probably went towards the dac or so I would assume. if we focus soley on the headset itself, I am curious to know which other headset it compares with, the Arctis 7 perhaps?

as far as gaming headsets go, the steelseries headsets get a decent rating on this other site, in terms of frequency response.

the mic isn't that great, not compared to my rode lapel mic.


----------



## AxelCloris

I dunno if I'd even consider comparing a gaming headset mic with something like a lav from Rode. Rode is going to be in a completely different tier from pretty much any standard headset on the market, the outliers being professional broadcasting headsets of course.


----------



## Playstation

how about this. the little earpiece with inline mic that used to be included with the PS4 sounded better. 

Plantronic rigs mic and headphones sound better for the fraction of the cost.

If you are going to spend this type of money ($270) I'd spend a little more and go with the Hyperx Orbit S, which sound better, have all the same features without a dac, and the mic sounds better.

I was more interested in the dac that came with the Nova bundle more than anything. it's a neat dac.


----------



## ImperialBlade (Jun 9, 2022)

How is the _Ananda-BT_, on a Win 11 Pro machine for gaming? I hear mostly good things, but there have been some random comments to the effect "does not work on Windows" - https://www.headfonia.com/hifiman-ananda-bt-review/4/ . I assume comment was for laptops, is this still the case? I ask I as I will be using this on a laptop.
Looking to cut down on the clutter and wires (less is more, desk environment), hence looking at high end (or TOTL) wireless headphone solutions. Top shelf quality sound is the paramount concern. Looking for a headset that is adapt equally for gaming as well as music. Not really wanting a lot of software stuff  (i.e. head tracking, etc).
 I have no limit on budget.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I would assume it uses standard Bluetooth drivers, so don't see why it wouldn't work.

I would be more concerned with the latency. Bluetooth isn't very responsive in general. However, as long as it has a low latency codec it should be ok.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

I meant to provide some thoughts on the Arctis Pro Wireless here - but forgot. I've now returned them and gone back to a set of Audeze Penrose X.

The Arctis were a slick package all round. Comfort, range, connectivity etc were good, BUT sound still wasn't quite as good as I wanted for a £330 outlay - especially when it came to music listening which I wanted the headset to cover also.

There have definitely been improvements to audio from previous SS headsets I've tried - but they are still not there quote yet.  I can see many people being happy with what they offer though.


----------



## Chastity (Jun 20, 2022)

Just picked up a set of Master & Dynamic ME05 IEMs, which are wired, and were their flagship IEMs.  They are now discontinued, and many retailers are selling these at $8.95 a set.  The MSRP on these were $199.  The construction of these is superb, with solid brass housings, removable tip filters so you can clean them with peroxide if they get gunked up with humanity, and have a very good in-line mic that is not encased in the in-line controls, so it's placed closer to your mouth area.

Soundwise, they are warm, full-bodied, and smooth, and close in presentation to my planars than I care to admit.    Tho they are dynamics, and don't reach down as low into subbass as planars can.  They also have very good detail and separation, and while they have good treble, they aren't sparkly and overly airy, tho tip choice will affect this.  They make excellent gamer buds, since they are full-bodied, and with a slight up-front presentation, so audio cues are easy to pick out, and they scale well to EQ adjustments.

I just ordered a second set so that I have a backup.  They became discontinued in Feb 2022, probably due to the in-line controller being Apple only, and on Android only the middle multi-function works.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B015YA8IC2


----------



## inseconds99

Has anyone attempted some TOTL gaming with the DCA Stealth? Opinions?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Just picked up a set of Master & Dynamic ME05 IEMs, which are wired, and were their flagship IEMs.  They are now discontinued, and many retailers are selling these at $8.95 a set.  The MSRP on these were $199.  The construction of these is superb, with solid brass housings, removable tip filters so you can clean them with peroxide if they get gunked up with humanity, and have a very good in-line mic that is not encased in the in-line controls, so it's placed closer to your mouth area.
> 
> Soundwise, they are warm, full-bodied, and smooth, and close in presentation to my planars than I care to admit.    Tho they are dynamics, and don't reach down as low into subbass as planars can.  They also have very good detail and separation, and while they have good treble, they aren't sparkly and overly airy, tho tip choice will affect this.  They make excellent gamer buds, since they are full-bodied, and with a slight up-front presentation, so audio cues are easy to pick out, and they scale well to EQ adjustments.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I am 100% a sucker for a deal and this looks like a great one. On the topic of planars I am taking a hard look at the 7Hz Timeless. While I'm still lusting after the ATH-R70X I can more easily justify a purchase for IEMs as I can use them while commuting, =)


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Thank you!! I am 100% a sucker for a deal and this looks like a great one. On the topic of planars I am taking a hard look at the 7Hz Timeless. While I'm still lusting after the ATH-R70X I can more easily justify a purchase for IEMs as I can use them while commuting, =)


My planars of choice are the Monolith M1570.  Having a hard time justifying an "upgrade" since perfecting the EQ for them.  If I was to try something new, I would be looking at Kennertons.  Enjoy the M&D!  Brass or Palladium?


inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted some TOTL gaming with the DCA Stealth? Opinions?


I have that TOTL gaming with my M1570 and a desk mic.


----------



## Radio81

Chastity said:


> Just picked up a set of Master & Dynamic ME05 IEMs, which are wired, and were their flagship IEMs.  They are now discontinued, and many retailers are selling these at $8.95 a set.  The MSRP on these were $199.  The construction of these is superb, with solid brass housings, removable tip filters so you can clean them with peroxide if they get gunked up with humanity, and have a very good in-line mic that is not encased in the in-line controls, so it's placed closer to your mouth area.
> 
> Soundwise, they are warm, full-bodied, and smooth, and close in presentation to my planars than I care to admit.    Tho they are dynamics, and don't reach down as low into subbass as planars can.  They also have very good detail and separation, and while they have good treble, they aren't sparkly and overly airy, tho tip choice will affect this.  They make excellent gamer buds, since they are full-bodied, and with a slight up-front presentation, so audio cues are easy to pick out, and they scale well to EQ adjustments.
> 
> ...



Great find, thanks for sharing.  I picked up a couple of pairs.


----------



## revolutionz

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted some TOTL gaming with the DCA Stealth? Opinions?


I use my Aeon 2 Noire for gaming, through a Burson Playmate 2 and switch back and forth between DTS and Dolby for VSS.  They're very comfortable, and the imaging/soundstage is great.  If I had to nitpick, and this is probably more of a VSS issue, sometimes I have problems with verticality, determining if footsteps are above or below me.  Other than that, great.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 23, 2022)

Most VSS take from a 7.1 source. 7.1 has no vertical cues. Anyone ever tell you they hear things directly below or above is fooling themselves, as you can't get height cues from these. May will likely be confusing close proximity (in your head) sound cues as being above. I've made this mistake myself. A helicopter goes from in front to above and then behind me, it will sound like it passed above me, when really it passed, 'through' my head. As far as the VSS is concerned.

Atmos VSS MAY have height cues, but I've yet to hear any convincing height cues.

Tempest 3D audio.... well I've also yet to hear anything convincing here either.

The only thing that convinced me of height cues was virtual barber shop and other pre-recorded binaural tracks. Nothing live.


----------



## Evshrug

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Anyone ever tell you they heart things directly below or above is fooling themselves, as you can't get height cues from these.


I would say Descent and Thief… but I would be joking, because I haven’t played these old pre-Windows Vista games 😅

When I replay The Last of Us, I’ll keep an ear out for height cues, because that is supposed to have software-rendered azimuth (height) directionality. Ironically, Sony says the PS3 had better audio support than the PS4 (because of the cell-processor lending itself to multiple voices and audio DSP better), but hopefully we will see better audio with the PS5.

I also want to give special mention to the PSVR. That break-out box actually has a dedicated audio processor, and through various proprietary tricks it does actually support 3D audio. I am VERY much looking forward to the PSVR 2, with even better audio, more advanced motion tracking controllers and headset, and a more streamlined connection between console and headset!

I haven’t played it as much as I used to (my iPad Pro screen cracked! And my friends I played with have moved on since I got my new iPad Air!), but PUBG Mobile’s  baked in surround sound was surprisingly good, and I believe it even did better than CoD’s confusing inability to tell when people are on the floor above or below the player (which has lead me to tactical mistakes several times). In PUBG, there are many people trying to fortify up in houses (or storming houses/apartments), and I had good reliability telling where someone was before I could see them based on sound alone. This is where I used my PC37X to death… except it wasn’t “to death,” the volume dial is a bit finicky now after all these years (I get a channel imbalance if I use the dial or bump the dial by accident), but it works when I leave the dial near max, and I still use it in my basement with my PS5, unless I happen to bring my PC38X down from the office 😅

I was an early adopter of the Audeze Mobius... and as I write this thinking about longer USB-C cable lengths and wondering if THAT headphone works when wired directly into the PS5, I realized that now that I have an iPad with USB-C, it might be an awesome time to break the old Mobius back out and see how that does plugged directly into the new iPad and rocking some rounds of PUBGM!


----------



## duranxv

inseconds99 said:


> Has anyone attempted some TOTL gaming with the DCA Stealth? Opinions?



Yes - it is awesome.  Hands down.


----------



## Evshrug

I’ve always enjoyed Mr Speakers/ DCA fullsized headphones, especially the open-backed models that felt a bit more rich. But they were all quite airy and seemed transparent, which I liked!

Hey @Zachik !!


----------



## Zachik

Evshrug said:


> Hey @Zachik !!


???


----------



## Evshrug

Just hi! Saw you were reading the thread


----------



## Zachik

Haha. OK


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> My planars of choice are the Monolith M1570.  Having a hard time justifying an "upgrade" since perfecting the EQ for them.  If I was to try something new, I would be looking at Kennertons.  Enjoy the M&D!  Brass or Palladium?
> 
> I have that TOTL gaming with my M1570 and a desk mic.


Silver ones. Brass/gold isn't really my thing. You?


----------



## Chastity (Jun 22, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Silver ones. Brass/gold isn't really my thing. You?


Brass ones for me, I like the golden accents.  So let us know what you think about the M&D House Sound.  And clean out your ears before doing so... first time using them the right one got gunked up, and I had to give the filter a peroxide bath to restore channel balance.

@Mad Lust Envy I cannot agree with you on above/below cues.  Some engines can be fed full x-y-z info, and generate some HRTFs with above/below cues, tho it has to be in the game engine.  Also, some games support DTS:X or Atmos, and will provide up to 15 channels (Windows Spatial specs allow for up to 15 channels) and games like RotTR using Atmos out can do 7.4.1 for above/below cues, *IF* you use the corresponding decoder, ie Atmos - Dolby Access, DTS:X - DTS Sound Abound.

If the game has it's own HRTF generator, and uses a full 360 around and above model, then it too can generate above/below cues.


----------



## Chastity (Jun 23, 2022)

Today I decided to play with the M&D ME05 buds at my desk, using my desk stack (Asgard 3 + Redscape) and dug out the Creative G6, and did some gaming on both.  One of the first things I discovered is don't use these IEMs on High Gain of the G6, as the bass levels get BOOMY fast.  The G6 and SBX actually do a very good job with these, as I was able to hunt down critters in Diablo II Resurrected easily by positional audio, and those horns blowing in Town... HA.  

The smooth presentation of the ME05 mate well with the somewhat grainy output of the G6, and conceal this flaw nicely, to the point that I don't notice it much.  It hits me in the face when driving the DT-1990 / M1570.  So maybe it's a matching issue.  The ME05 mic also works rather well being a shirt-clip mic, and the TRRS plug works with the G6 for feeding the mic to the unit.  Also, the G6 doesn't get hot driving these IEMs, as opposed to my power hungry cans.

The Asgard 3 has no problem with these IEMs using Low Gain on the A3, and no issues with frequency response or any imbalances.  In the end, the ME05 make for great IEMs to game on, and watch movies with.  Bass is not shy on these w/o being bloated, and I find the stock tuning to be spot on, so EQ isn't required.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jun 23, 2022)

Chastity said:


> Brass ones for me, I like the golden accents.  So let us know what you think about the M&D House Sound.  And clean out your ears before doing so... first time using them the right one got gunked up, and I had to give the filter a peroxide bath to restore channel balance.
> 
> @Mad Lust Envy I cannot agree with you on above/below cues.  Some engines can be fed full x-y-z info, and generate some HRTFs with above/below cues, tho it has to be in the game engine.  Also, some games support DTS:X or Atmos, and will provide up to 15 channels (Windows Spatial specs allow for up to 15 channels) and games like RotTR using Atmos out can do 7.4.1 for above/below cues, *IF* you use the corresponding decoder, ie Atmos - Dolby Access, DTS:X - DTS Sound Abound.
> 
> If the game has it's own HRTF generator, and uses a full 360 around and above model, then it too can generate above/below cues.


I'm mainly referring to the 7.1 based engines. I know there's ones that can do height cues. I believe Overwatch's innate Dolby Atmos engine has height cues.

But there's a distinct lack of those in comparison to what we typically get.

I didn't get to hear TOO much at CanJam from other companies, but I did hear the 800S off the 820 whatnot amp. Probably a better sense of soundstaging than I remember from the pre-finalized 8XX. I also heard the HD820 closed back, and thought they did a great job translating the HD800 type of sound, if a little different. Not sure why it gets a lot of detractors. My guess is too much FR graph advocates, who listen with eyes instead of ears.

Hifiman's Sundara was REALLY solid. It's super good. I mean it's no surprise considering all the years I spent reviewing HFM stuff. Kinda wish I had a chance to review it before joining Audeze.

The sub-$400 purely analog range is something I want Audeze to push in the future as I know we can compete, but just don't have anything there at the moment.

I heard the RAAL stuff briefly which was a cool experience, though a bit too niche in terms of use case for what I'd need out of high end.

I wanted to hear ZMF gear, but couldn't find the time. It was on my to do list. Probably what I'm most interested in outside of Audeze.

Heard the Stax new headphone which sounded great as expected of being uber high-end.

There's other stuff I would've loved to hear at the show, but being at work, and you know...

CanJam really is a fantastic experience, and must be super awesome as a general consumer.


----------



## Leberkassemmel

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Most VSS take from a 7.1 source. 7.1 has no vertical cues. Anyone ever tell you they hear things directly below or above is fooling themselves, as you can't get height cues from these.


It also makes me chuckle when i hear people talk about headphones for gaming and how well they can hear if something is above or below in games without any kind of hrtf. But no, headphone X has much better vertical imaging than headphone Y, even tho they play without any kind HRTF, because they think it doesn really work and in general every VSS is just a gimmick.....

The argument is basically always the same, that HRTF is not accurate enough, way too depend on the persons ears, pure stereo is way more consistent and soundstage/imaging of the headphone is all that matters. I tried to look if i can find any numbers or studys, for how many % of people  a generalized HRTF is better than pure stereo sound, but i couldnt find anything.

While i dont disagree, that Soundstage/Imaging definitely play a role, i personally think that a proper HRTF signal is way more important. Im mostly playing Apex at the moment and that game without any kind of VSS is just a mess. Even with VSS its still hard to hear where people are coming from, it has so many multi-level buildings but basically no vertical sound information (sometimes you can hear if somebody is above/below you because of occlusion effects).


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Today I decided to play with the M&D ME05 buds at my desk, using my desk stack (Asgard 3 + Redscape) and dug out the Creative G6, and did some gaming on both.  One of the first things I discovered is don't use these IEMs on High Gain of the G6, as the bass levels get BOOMY fast.  The G6 and SBX actually do a very good job with these, as I was able to hunt down critters in Diablo II Resurrected easily by positional audio, and those horns blowing in Town... HA.
> 
> The smooth presentation of the ME05 mate well with the somewhat grainy output of the G6, and conceal this flaw nicely, to the point that I don't notice it much.  It hits me in the face when driving the DT-1990 / M1570.  So maybe it's a matching issue.  The ME05 mic also works rather well being a shirt-clip mic, and the TRRS plug works with the G6 for feeding the mic to the unit.  Also, the G6 doesn't get hot driving these IEMs, as opposed to my power hungry cans.
> 
> The Asgard 3 has no problem with these IEMs using Low Gain on the A3, and no issues with frequency response or any imbalances.  In the end, the ME05 make for great IEMs to game on, and watch movies with.  Bass is not shy on these w/o being bloated, and I find the stock tuning to be spot on, so EQ isn't required.


You're not kidding, bass is absolutely not shy on these but I was impressed by it. I got some texture and detail in the bass that normally isn't apparent to me from other IEMs. Bass felt forward to me and I really appreciated how it didn't crowd out the other frequencies, even when it got big. Chris Cornell sounded a little flat to me (I am the Highway) which was disappointing but it was by no means unpleasant. Things got muddled in Zimmer's No Time for Caution and the midtones were swallowed up but that's a very busy track anyway. Sadly David Gilmour was a ghost of himself in Us and Them off of Pulse. I found them to have fun tuning with enough treble - which to me was nicely clear - to complement that luscious bass. 

I was listening a second time to Andain's Beautiful Things - which I thought sounded excellent on these - when it dawned on me that these things were absolutely made for techno. I immediately pulled up Traceport and yup, now extremely satisfied. I still wouldn't mind fuller mids but that's not a complaint. 

I think my biggest challenge with these is their shape prevents really good insertion into my very oddly-shaped ears. Comply foam worked well but it destroyed the treble. I was able to get a secure-ish fit finally with SednaEarfit Crystals.

Overall, though, I'm glad I bought these and I very much appreciate the tip on the bargain. I think I would have been happy paying more for these, especially with the obviously high-quality packaging and accessories (at this price the heavy cloth pouch is worth the purchase alone).


----------



## ImperialBlade

I'd given up on wireless (really want better sound) and want the "best" sound (wide stage, great details, not lacking in bass/treble/highs), in a small footprint of a setup. I am looking at dacs that have mic inputs. 

Anyone here have or have thoughts on this setup mainly for gaming (I am sure I will be doing music or movies with this):

Hifiman Arya Stealth Edition
Audeze Boom Mic Cable
Schiit Hel 2E
Thanks,
Eric


----------



## AxelCloris

How are you planning on adapting the Audeze cable, terminated with dual mini-XLR, for use with the Arya and its 3.5mm jacks?


----------



## ImperialBlade

Scihiit! Didn't even think about that.

Unless anyone knows of a 3.5mm cable with a boom mic for Arya's , then I need to go back to the drawing board!


----------



## AxelCloris

Sadly that's the unfortunate part of our space: the number of boom cables are limited and only work for a few specific terminations. The primary dual-entry cables that I know of are Audeze's and ZMF's, both mini-XLR. For single-entry there are several more options but that also has a significantly reduced pool of headphones. Most cables with built-in mics will be using those super compact in-line mics. Specifically requiring a boom will severely limit the available options.

Years ago I had someone make me a cable that accepted stereo 3.5mm TRS and split it out into Left and Right cables for use with the MrSpeakers Hirose connector. It was far from an elegant solution and it had some issues like a huge lead for the right cup and practically no distance from the splitter to the left cup (think of the old asymmetrical y style IEM cables), but it functioned. You could consider something like that. I used my custom adapter with the V-MODA Boom Pro.

You could always go basic: a clip-on mic and any headphones you want with the Hel.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Yeah, I could use something like this - https://www.amazon.com/Antlion-Audi...ing-Playstation/dp/B07YN25KWN?ref_=ast_sto_dp
Or should I scrap the Hel idea and go with a different idea and use a USB mic, like a Blue Iceball?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Yup, Modmic. I recently purchased their wireless flavor and it works excellently. It's not cheap but I've found it worth the money to eliminate the wire mess. You can find magnetic charging docks for it on Etsy, also a great addition.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## AxelCloris

ModMic is always a good pick. I had one years ago on my K712 and loved that combo. And the Hel is a great little device so I wouldn't count it out as an option. The Hel does a decent job with my HD 800.


----------



## ImperialBlade (Jun 29, 2022)

Thanks, I'd think with the access to a wide array of products you must have and hearing that the Hel works well with your HD800 says a lot.
I assume (hate to assume), there may be a better pairing you've come across?


----------



## AxelCloris

Well, there are plenty of better pairings for music with my 800, but the Hel is one of the simplest/most convenient options I've come across for the PS5 so that's what I use when I need headphones on my console. I've also done PS5 > Atom DAC > Gilmore Lite MKII and I found that to be a better system for the HD 800 than the Hel, of course at a significantly higher price. I dunno about the Hel/Arya Stealth combo specifically, but it's one I wouldn't be worried about pairing together. Both devices have a ton of pros to them. And I have a clip-on mic that I attach to the cable for use with any headphone where I don't have access to a boom mic.

More often than not I end up using a pair of closed beyerdynamics for gaming on the PS5 so I can block out the sounds of the neighborhood. Which reminds me, I recall seeing a single-entry mini-XLR boom mic cable in the past, maybe I should look into that for home use.


----------



## deafenears

ImperialBlade said:


> Scihiit! Didn't even think about that.
> 
> Unless anyone knows of a 3.5mm cable with a boom mic for Arya's , then I need to go back to the drawing board!


There are adapters from 3.5mm to 4-pin mini-XLR, Affinity Adaptors for example. Might be worth taking a look there.


----------



## ImperialBlade

@deafenears  - would this be what you were thinking of - https://www.ebay.com/itm/184713463371?hash=item2b01c7c64b:g:2xMAAOSwFNhgUHNf


----------



## deafenears

ImperialBlade said:


> @deafenears  - would this be what you were thinking of - https://www.ebay.com/itm/184713463371?hash=item2b01c7c64b:g:2xMAAOSwFNhgUHNf


Yeah, but more like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174712455865

So 4-pin mini XLR male to 3.5mm male.


----------



## AxelCloris

AxelCloris said:


> Years ago I had someone make me a cable that accepted stereo 3.5mm TRS and split it out into Left and Right cables for use with the MrSpeakers Hirose connector. It was far from an elegant solution and it had some issues like a huge lead for the right cup and practically no distance from the splitter to the left cup (think of the old asymmetrical y style IEM cables), but it functioned. You could consider something like that. I used my custom adapter with the V-MODA Boom Pro.


In a crazy turn of coincidence, I happened across this adapter last night while reorganizing my home office. I've since sold my MrSpeakers/DCA headphones, but I may have to borrow one from the office for old time's sake now. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend.  I'll grab a photo of the adapter and send it along later.


----------



## revolutionz

ImperialBlade said:


> I'd given up on wireless (really want better sound) and want the "best" sound (wide stage, great details, not lacking in bass/treble/highs), in a small footprint of a setup. I am looking at dacs that have mic inputs.
> 
> Anyone here have or have thoughts on this setup mainly for gaming (I am sure I will be doing music or movies with this):
> 
> ...



I use a Burson Playmate 2 with the v6 vivid opamp upgrade, I think that would be a decent step up from the Hel, although I've read a lot of good things about the Hel.

For a mic I use an Antlion ModMic wired version.

Headphones I use Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Noire.

Fairly small footprint, great sound quality, and very comfortable. Just some other options compared to your list.


----------



## ImperialBlade

Thanks @revolutionz . Question, was the the DCA Aeon 2 Noire open of closed back?
Would the Burson Playmate 2 with the v6 vivid opamp upgrade support the phones and a mic? I ask as the input pictographs show what appears to be a gaming headset.

Eric


----------



## revolutionz

ImperialBlade said:


> Thanks @revolutionz . Question, was the the DCA Aeon 2 Noire open of closed back?
> Would the Burson Playmate 2 with the v6 vivid opamp upgrade support the phones and a mic? I ask as the input pictographs show what appears to be a gaming headset.
> 
> Eric


Yes, there is a 1/4" output for phones and a 1/8" input for a mic.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> You're not kidding, bass is absolutely not shy on these but I was impressed by it. I got some texture and detail in the bass that normally isn't apparent to me from other IEMs. Bass felt forward to me and I really appreciated how it didn't crowd out the other frequencies, even when it got big. Chris Cornell sounded a little flat to me (I am the Highway) which was disappointing but it was by no means unpleasant. Things got muddled in Zimmer's No Time for Caution and the midtones were swallowed up but that's a very busy track anyway. Sadly David Gilmour was a ghost of himself in Us and Them off of Pulse. I found them to have fun tuning with enough treble - which to me was nicely clear - to complement that luscious bass.
> 
> I was listening a second time to Andain's Beautiful Things - which I thought sounded excellent on these - when it dawned on me that these things were absolutely made for techno. I immediately pulled up Traceport and yup, now extremely satisfied. I still wouldn't mind fuller mids but that's not a complaint.
> 
> ...


The price on Amazon is down to $7.95, so I ordered a set in Paladium.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> The price on Amazon is down to $7.95, so I ordered a set in Paladium.


Wow, check out the price history on CamelCamelCamel, it's about the same for both colors:





I'm tempted to wait and see if they go down further on Prime Day but I also wouldn't be surprised if they sell out. Honestly if I didn't have such bad fit issues I would pull the trigger right away on another pair. Hell, I've been looking for a good storage solution for all of my existing IEMs, I could just buy a bunch of these things and use that cylindrical case they come with.

By the way, did you see that new planar Moondrop just announced? The look of the thing is sexy as all getout. I have thing for art deco.


----------



## Chastity (Jul 1, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> Wow, check out the price history on CamelCamelCamel, it's about the same for both colors:
> 
> 
> I'm tempted to wait and see if they go down further on Prime Day but I also wouldn't be surprised if they sell out. Honestly if I didn't have such bad fit issues I would pull the trigger right away on another pair. Hell, I've been looking for a good storage solution for all of my existing IEMs, I could just buy a bunch of these things and use that cylindrical case they come with.
> ...


I did, and I saw the MoonZero and thought "the driver chamber is as big as a set of Audeze"

As for IEM storage, I've seen people use storage trays with cubicles in them, and roll them up and store them that way.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

ImperialBlade said:


> Thanks @revolutionz . Question, was the the DCA Aeon 2 Noire open of closed back?
> Would the Burson Playmate 2 with the v6 vivid opamp upgrade support the phones and a mic? I ask as the input pictographs show what appears to be a gaming headset.
> 
> Eric


Been looking at the Playmate 2 also - I understand the 3.5mm supports mic which makes it a perfect all rounder for my usage


----------



## Chastity

@JdeFalconr   My Paladiums arrived today  \o/  Ooooo shiny!  But alas, they shall remain sealed inbox along with my 2nd Bronze set.


----------



## Dimitah

Anything new you guys can suggest for FPS games? I am currently rocking a pair of Mobius that are starting to fail a bit and want to try out something new!


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> @JdeFalconr   My Paladiums arrived today  \o/  Ooooo shiny!  But alas, they shall remain sealed inbox along with my 2nd Bronze set.


Nice! I gave in (for the awful sum of $8...) and bit on the gold ones. They should arrive shortly. Looking forward to comparing.


----------



## Chastity

JdeFalconr said:


> Nice! I gave in (for the awful sum of $8...) and bit on the gold ones. They should arrive shortly. Looking forward to comparing.


If there's a difference I will be shocked. QA on these is top notch.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> If there's a difference I will be shocked. QA on these is top notch.


Ah, yes, I think I misspoke. Comparing the way they look.


----------



## Helvetica bold (Jul 3, 2022)

Last night I was playing Forbidden West and had the SteelSeries Arctis Nova wired connected to the PS5. 3D audio really enhances weather effects like thunderstorms and they do sound above you. I haven't had much time to play lately but the wired Nova's still impress. Im not the best at describing audio but they sound very detailed and crip with bass that doesn't overpower. I still need to do more testing but since my return period is up Im keeping the Nova. Next time I want to test my Audio Technica 700x with the DAC.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Helvetica bold said:


> Last night I was playing Forbidden West and had the SteelSeries Arctis Nova wired connected to the PS5. 3D audio really enhances weather effects like thunder, storms  do sound like they are above you. I haven't had much time to play lately but the wired Nova's still impress. I not the best at describing audio but they sound very detailed and crips with bass that doesn't overpower. I still need to do more testing but since my return period is up Im keeping the Nova's. Next time I want to test my Audio Technica 700x with the DAC.


I really enjoyed Steelseries virtual 7.1 on the Arctis Pro Wireless, I thought they did an excellent job with it. I'm wiling to bet the Nova is the same, if not better.


----------



## deanorthk

Helvetica bold said:


> Last night I was playing Forbidden West and had the SteelSeries Arctis Nova wired connected to the PS5. 3D audio really enhances weather effects like thunderstorms and they do sound above you. I haven't had much time to play lately but the wired Nova's still impress. Im not the best at describing audio but they sound very detailed and crip with bass that doesn't overpower. I still need to do more testing but since my return period is up Im keeping the Nova. Next time I want to test my Audio Technica 700x with the DAC.


I'm going to try this game, Forbidden West, with the SB X7 and the Audeze LCD GX. Are there any particular enviroment or scene that I should test to match your experience?


----------



## inseconds99 (Jul 4, 2022)

@Mad Lust Envy now that to the SB X7 is discontinued, what is the next best option? I dunno what I’ll do if mine breaks, love how it does sound mixing from multiple inputs. Really makes it easy to have Xbox on and playing while in an Xbox party chat from my PC. Seamless.


----------



## deanorthk

inseconds99 said:


> @Mad Lust Envy now that to the SB X7 is discontinued, what is the next best option? I dunno what I’ll do if mine breaks, love how it does sound mixing from multiple inputs. Really makes it easy to have Xbox on and playing while in an Xbox party chat from my PC. Seamless.


None of the current product from SB can match X7 versatility? X6, X5 and such? 
most of the people I follow on youtube for example, are using non gaming product for headphone pairing, Schiit product for example? The sound blaster AE-9 seems like a good product, but as it comes ith internal powersupply, it may be less effective than the X7.. I don't know, like you, my X7 is still alive, but if it dies... it's nearly 6 years old.


----------



## Chastity

deanorthk said:


> None of the current product from SB can match X7 versatility? X6, X5 and such?
> most of the people I follow on youtube for example, are using non gaming product for headphone pairing, Schiit product for example? The sound blaster AE-9 seems like a good product, but as it comes ith internal powersupply, it may be less effective than the X7.. I don't know, like you, my X7 is still alive, but if it dies... it's nearly 6 years old.


The solution is to get a proper headphone stack, and use software to supply VSS for your gaming.  I find Redscape / Dolby Access / DTS Sound Abound cover all my VSS needs, depending if the game supports Atmos or DTS:X or only DirectSound.  If you need a mic input, then you may want to use an interface or something like the Hel 2.  I use a desk mic that has an USB option.


----------



## Helvetica bold

deanorthk said:


> I'm going to try this game, Forbidden West, with the SB X7 and the Audeze LCD GX. Are there any particular enviroment or scene that I should test to match your experience?


I believe weather is dynamic if Forbidden West but I noticed with weather effects early in the game during the "Deaths Door" main quest level 10 I believe. I'll post further impressions later.
On another note, I was hoping Audeze was going to have a July 4th B Stock Sale no luck. I still want the Penrose X.


----------



## Chastity

Redscape updated to 1.4.2

No update notes available yet.


----------



## Kilabyte

Hey all, I was pointed to this thread from the PC audio section, so I'll just copy and paste my post



I finally decided to go wireless, until now I was using DT 990 Pro 250Ohm with a DAC.

I am trying to decide between Steelseries 9X and Corsair Virtuoso XT. I've been doing dome basic testing with both and each has their pros and cons. I like that the Steelseries automatically switches the audio output when turned on and off, corsair doesn't. The 9X also has better bass response, Corsair sounds cleaner. Corsair is Dolby Atmos compatible, here's where I'd like someone to chime in how and if that is better in games, esp shooters where a good set will help you pinpoint the location of an enemy. I guess my biggest question is whether or not Dolby Atmos worth having.

RTINGS scored the 9X higher. I just want some input from someone that has used one or both. TIA


----------



## Helvetica bold

I played some BF2042 on PS5 last night with my AT700x connected to the new Steel Series GameDAC Gen 2. Everything sounded great with a crisp and clear wide soundstage. I tried the stereo in game setting and the 3D audio. 

One thing I’m confused about with  BF2042, do you have to turn off 3D audio in the OS and use the in game 3D solution? Same goes for XsX, is Atmos and 3D in game both need to be selected?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Helvetica bold said:


> I played some BF2042 on PS5 last night with my AT700x connected to the new Steel Series GameDAC Gen 2. Everything sounded great with a crisp and clear wide soundstage. I tried the stereo in game setting and the 3D audio.
> 
> One thing I’m confused about with  BF2042, do you have to turn off 3D audio in the OS and use the in game 3D solution? Same goes for XsX, is Atmos and 3D in game both need to be selected?


That's one question I'm interested in too. I don't know. Presently with my setup I use Creative virtual 7.1 and Creative's spatial solution as well. I have my game audio settings to Surround. The audio sounds just fine in that config. I do know there's a binaural headphone setting that the game offers. I would think, though, that the game designers would probably not want to do their own VSS or spatial. The average gamer I'd wager would have no idea what was happening if BF2042 was doing VSS/spatial on top of their own peripheral's processing and even less idea how to fix it.

Then again DICE might try and circumvent that problem with the "Auto" setup option which chooses an output mode based on Windows' speaker config, though that breaks in situations like mine where I run all my output through a mixer with a two-channel input. But if you have a setup like that you hopefully would know enough to troubleshoot things.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Helvetica bold said:


> I played some BF2042 on PS5 last night with my AT700x connected to the new Steel Series GameDAC Gen 2. Everything sounded great with a crisp and clear wide soundstage. I tried the stereo in game setting and the 3D audio.
> 
> One thing I’m confused about with  BF2042, do you have to turn off 3D audio in the OS and use the in game 3D solution? Same goes for XsX, is Atmos and 3D in game both need to be selected?


It's the one confusing thing about PS5 audio since day one I think - my understanding is, 3D Audio on the PS5 OS should only be on for those games that support it.  BF2042 has it's own 3d audio I think so therefore the OS option should be switched off.  

Think Sony really need to make it clearer which games are and are not supported.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 8, 2022)

Any game that mentions spatial audio, surround mode, etc, has its OWN DSPs, which means you should turn off external 3D/surround audio options, or system 3D audio dsps.

That being said, while I haven't heard 2042's built in surround, I have heard those before it, and they tend to sound great but not offer great positional accuracy. So I still prefer external devices like a Mixamp (in my case, a super old Mixamp 5.8 with Dolby Headphone). when I want to get real positional accuracy. I have the Creative GC7, but haven't had much use of it lately, since I play PS5 from the bed, and on my desktop setup, it's basically all PC gaming, which I use Redscape for.

On PS5, 3D audio works for basically everything, but unless a game is made with it in mind, it's more like a generic HTRF for other games, and sounds... not amazing. It's a poor man's alternative which to me is still favorable to plain stereo, but it does take a sound quality hit. Still, I will always prefer a hit to sound quality if it can help in positional accuracy however little it may be.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Any game that mentions spatial audio, surround mode, etc, has its OWN DSPs, which means you should turn off external 3D/surround audio options, or system 3D audio dsps.
> 
> That being said, while I haven't heard 2042's built in surround, I have heard those before it, and they tend to sound great but not offer great positional accuracy. So I still prefer external devices like a Mixamp (in my case, a super old Mixamp 5.8 with Dolby Headphone). when I want to get real positional accuracy. I have the Creative GC7, but haven't had much use of it lately, since I play PS5 from the bed, and on my desktop setup, it's basically all PC gaming, which I use Redscape for.
> 
> On PS5, 3D audio works for basically everything, but unless a game is made with it in mind, it's more like a generic HTRF for other games, and sounds... not amazing. It's a poor man's alternative which to me is still favorable to plain stereo, but it does take a sound quality hit. Still, I will always prefer a hit to sound quality if it can help in positional accuracy however little it may be.


That's interesting, I can recall with certainty the feeling that when turning on Creative's spatial solution it definitely had the intended effect. I would think it wouldn't come through properly if it was being double-processed, so to speak.

Is there a method I can use to record audio that will preserve all of the fancy effects? I could try and record the whole thing and share it with all here for feedback.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Double processing would still yield positional benefits, though it'd butcher everything else. It'd still just be doubling down on HRTF positional cues, so it would still sound like it works. But that's not the correct way to use these things.


----------



## Kilabyte

So are you saying that Dolby Atmos is not useful in games?


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Double processing would still yield positional benefits, though it'd butcher everything else. It'd still just be doubling down on HRTF positional cues, so it would still sound like it works. But that's not the correct way to use these things.


Hmm. From your description as well as my own understanding I'm guessing I would be able to tell pretty easily if that were happening; the game certainly doesn't sound like everything is garbage besides positional cues. 

In any case I'm still curious if you have any ideas on a recording method.


----------



## Helvetica bold

In Forbidden West at the end of the main quest called “Deaths Door” there’s some impressive 3D audio. So far Returnal and Forbidden West use the tempest engine well IMHO. I have to test Uncharted remastered collection next.


----------



## Kilabyte

Does nobody help others on this forum? I've asked questions above and in the PC section and everything is getting ignored


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 9, 2022)

Kilabyte said:


> Does nobody help others on this forum? I've asked questions above and in the PC section and everything is getting ignored


You're not getting an answer because perhaps no one on this forum has an answer to your question? People here don't generally buy gaming headsets. We tend to use regular headphones since they tend to outperform gaming headsets.

Headfi in general doesn't tend to purchase mainstream gaming products like Corsair or Steelseries.

As far as Rtings goes, their stuff outside of tv or monitor display related reviews is suspect. I wouldn't touch their audio-centric reviews. I love those guys, but defintely not for headphones articles.

You asked me about Atmos, and I personally think Atmos is fine, but I prefer Dolby Headphone since the positional cues are more obvious. Atmos retains better sound quality, but positional are more reigned in and subtle. As far as my personal experiences goes.

I don't have an Xbox so can't say how well Atmos works there. I've only had experience with PC version of Atmos and it's been underwhelming. However, it's apparently best with games that natively support it, and don't fall back to generic htrf. I'll have to play a game that natively supports Atmos to really gauge how good it is.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Kilabyte said:


> Hey all, I was pointed to this thread from the PC audio section, so I'll just copy and paste my post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would stay wired and get the Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X) headphones.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Just wanna say, I'm super adversed to IEMs, because I can't stand anything going in my ears.

Well, my friend brought over his Sony linkbuds with the open ring design:

https://electronics.sony.com/audio/headphones/truly-wireless/p/wfl900-h

And I gotta say, it's literally the only IEM-replacement I'd ever consider getting, until more companies adopt this type of design.

Nothing goes IN your ear, and the design actually stays in place without any discomfort.

Bravo, Sony. They wouldn't replace my Koss clip ons, but maaaan, this would be a great alternative for me.

Comfort is king, and these got it. I probably wouldn't do serious audiuophile listening on these, but for on the go, yeah, these are pretty grand.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Have a question about RE2 audio menu. 
There’s a “Sound Output Device” option 
where one can select Headphones or Dolby Atmos. Below that is a 3D Audio Option. One combo could be Atmos and no 3D Audio? Or Headphones & 3D Audio? I think Atmos & 3D audio would be layering 2 solutions similar to BF games? 

My next issues I can get 24bit audio from the PS5 but with Series X I only get 16bit is this an Atmos Headphone limitation? Im using the new Steel Series Nova Pro wired.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

I have a liquid carbon x amp and hd660s I want to use with ps5. What usb ua1c dac can I use that will work properly?  Thanks


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Helvetica bold said:


> Have a question about RE2 audio menu.
> There’s a “Sound Output Device” option
> where one can select Headphones or Dolby Atmos. Below that is a 3D Audio Option. One combo could be Atmos and no 3D Audio? Or Headphones & 3D Audio? I think Atmos & 3D audio would be layering 2 solutions similar to BF games?
> 
> My next issues I can get 24bit audio from the PS5 but with Series X I only get 16bit is this an Atmos Headphone limitation? Im using the new Steel Series Nova Pro wired.



Not sure on RE2. Unfortunately. My logical assumption would be never to use headphone settings in game if using external processes at a Windows level. Or in this case, Xbox level. Not sure how the games 3D audio affects anything.

Best bet would be to test each individually.

As for 24bit or 16bit, doubtful 24bit is utilized. Going off (again) logical assumption from hardware experience, virtual surround is taking from 5.1/7.1 sources  which is too many channels to take 24bit from, hence why Atmos limits to 16. There's gotta bea bandwidth limitation.

I'd likely believe the ps5 may accept 24bit but is converting down 16 if 3D audio is used  like how the Creative G6 accepts 24/192 for 7.1 but really it's just 16/44 or something per channel. Don't quote me on that.



HoneysPoohBear said:


> I have a liquid carbon x amp and hd660s I want to use with ps5. What usb ua1c dac can I use that will work properly?  Thanks


My immediate choices for you would be Creative GC7, Creative G6, Schiit Fulla 4, Schiit Hel 2.

I'm sure they're more, but those are the 4 I know.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Mad Lust Envy said:


> My immediate choices for you would be Creative GC7, Creative G6, Schiit Fulla 4, Schiit Hel 2.
> 
> I'm sure they're more, but those are the 4 I know.


I knew you would point me in the right direction,  always have been a big help in the past. So would the chain looking something like PS5>Fulla 4> Liquid carbon X>headphones? Does the Fulla 4 have pass through where I can use it as a dac only or would it be acting like a amp going into another amp? Would that hurt anything? Thanks for your help


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

HoneysPoohBear said:


> I knew you would point me in the right direction,  always have been a big help in the past. So would the chain looking something like PS5>Fulla 4> Liquid carbon X>headphones? Does the Fulla 4 have pass through where I can use it as a dac only or would it be acting like a amp going into another amp? Would that hurt anything? Thanks for your help


You have to set the volume on the Fulla to a certain point to reach the equivalent of line out. There's no standard passthrough.


----------



## Radio81

If you don't need the features of the GC7, the Creative SXFI amp (currently at $60) is a great option for PS5.  It's also TRRS, so it will support a wired headset.


----------



## JdeFalconr




----------



## Chastity (Jul 19, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


>


Where did you find them at that price?  NVM, thomannmusic.com


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Does anyone know what versions of IFI Zen Dacs work with PS5? I read V2 is compatible. Wondering if the Zen air is or not


----------



## JdeFalconr

Chastity said:


> Where did you find them at that price?


Thomann!
https://www.thomannmusic.com/audio_technica_ath_r70_x.htm


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

I just got the ifi zen dac air in the mail today. I can confirm it does work with the PS5.


----------



## Magnus_CA

What should be on my shortlist for competitive gaming headsets (or headphones with 3rd party mics) for the Xbox Series X (FPS PVP)? I don't sit near my console so I may be handcuffed a bit in what I can implement beyond plugging directly into my elite controller. My budget is $300 USD.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear (Jul 24, 2022)

Magnus_CA said:


> What should be on my shortlist for competitive gaming headsets (or headphones with 3rd party mics) for the Xbox Series X (FPS PVP)? I don't sit near my console so I may be handcuffed a bit in what I can implement beyond plugging directly into my elite controller. My budget is $300 USD.


I'd recommend a Fidelio X2hr with a boom mic attached to the side. Way better than any headset, cheaper,  and will be able to plug directly into your controller. AKG 712pro are really nice too, very light and comfortable.  But may need an external amp to power. The X2s are an all rounder and require no amp to drive.


----------



## Magnus_CA

HoneysPoohBear said:


> I'd recommend a Fidelio X2hr with a boom mic attached to the side. Way better than any headset, cheaper,  and will be able to plug directly into your controller. AKG 712pro are really nice too, very light and comfortable.  But may need an external amp to power. The X2s are an all rounder and require no amp to drive.


Thanks. Any strong opinion on vmoda vs modmic?


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

Magnus_CA said:


> Thanks. Any strong opinion on vmoda vs modmic?


Whatever is cheapest.  Both should work just fine,  comes down to preference.  Also another headphone worth mentioning that I would consider top 3 in competitive gaming would be the Audio-technica AD700x


----------



## PurpleAngel

Magnus_CA said:


> What should be on my shortlist for competitive gaming headsets (or headphones with 3rd party mics) for the Xbox Series X (FPS PVP)? I don't sit near my console so I may be handcuffed a bit in what I can implement beyond plugging directly into my elite controller. My budget is $300 USD.


Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X), with Modmic, I'm not a FPS gamer, but it's what would be one of my first choices.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

PurpleAngel said:


> Audio Technica ATH-AD700(X), with Modmic, I'm not a FPS gamer, but it's what would be one of my first choices.


What this guy said! 👍


----------



## deanorthk

I can't play anything lately, not that I hate my audeze LCD GX, they do are wonderfull for my gaming experience, but without air conditionning, I simply can't keep them on my ears, I feel like overheating. That the same with my fostex TH900, seems like summer days are no go for me (until I get AC installed, that is...)


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

deanorthk said:


> I can't play anything lately, not that I hate my audeze LCD GX, they do are wonderfull for my gaming experience, but without air conditionning, I simply can't keep them on my ears, I feel like overheating. That the same with my fostex TH900, seems like summer days are no go for me (until I get AC installed, that is...)


Life without AC sucks!!!!


----------



## JdeFalconr

Finally had a chance to sit down and play a little with my ATH-R70x and they're a treat. The soundstage is indeed large with very good positioning and good imaging. Tonality is excellent and the bass surprised me in a good way. From a brief swap in-game the soundstage wasn't quite as detailed as the M1570's which, by comparison, seems to find every little sound in a huge area around the player and magnify it to distinct audibility. From my initial impressions - and no small measure of preference, I might add - I would initially describe the M1570's soundscape as "soundwhoring" while the R70x would be "competitively immersive." But the R70x's were up to the task and I thoroughly enjoyed playing BF2042 with them. 

Musically they live up to billing as well and were a pleasure to listen to. In terms of comfort the R70x is so light and well-fitting I forgot they're there; it's pretty impressive. After the M1570's I very much appreciate that the ear cups on the R70x have a small amount of swivel to them - maybe 15 degrees or so, just enough to make sure they fit the shape of your head.

Tonight was just a brief test, I'll have to spend more time with them to offer really detailed impressions. But thus far I'm a happy camper.


----------



## HoneysPoohBear

I'm running with a Ifi Zen Dac Air and Senn HD660s. End game for me... But on occasion I'll plug in the Hifiman HE500s and they are crazy fun to game with.


----------



## deafenears

deanorthk said:


> I can't play anything lately, not that I hate my audeze LCD GX, they do are wonderfull for my gaming experience, but without air conditionning, I simply can't keep them on my ears, I feel like overheating. That the same with my fostex TH900, seems like summer days are no go for me (until I get AC installed, that is...)


Man, that's already a solved problem.







https://www.amazon.com/s?k=neck+air+conditioner

Also:






https://www.amazon.com/s?k=evapolar+air+conditioner


----------



## Misguided (Jul 26, 2022)

Hi.

I was wondering if anyone with an Xbox Series X has tried the Astro A40 amp via USB and if the sound quality improves much from the 3.5mm input on the controller. I've been doing some research and most people seem to think the sound is pretty poor but there seems to be quite a lot of bad feeling about the optical out going which may be skewing it. I'm curious if anyone has done a direct comparison between the Astro A40 amp via USB only (no hdmi optical extractor) and the headphone jack on the controller.

I currently use a Arctis Steelseries 1 Wireless Xbox Version but recently purchased some Hifiman Sundaras and a Topping NX4 DSD. I am thinking about using the Sundaras for gaming and have two options, line out from controller to splitter, one line to a stand alone mic the other to my topping NX4 DSD then my Sundaras or the same but from the Astro A40 connected via USB to the Xbox. The Astro A40 amp would be a tidier set up but would cost £100 more so would like to see an improvement in the audio as well.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Magnus_CA

I'm looking for a gaming headphone with the following qualities:

-Open or semi-open back
-Detachable cord
-Capable of being driven off an Xbox Controller
-Provides good competitive gaming experience and good for music
-Under $300 USD

Thanks in advance.


----------



## NewCoke

Magnus_CA said:


> I'm looking for a gaming headphone with the following qualities:
> 
> -Open or semi-open back
> -Detachable cord
> ...



I have used the PC38X and HD 560S on the Series X controller just fine.  The HD 560S is a better headphone, but you will want a shorter cable than stock.  However, that volume wheel on the PC38X is just super convenient for console play.

As weird as it's detachable cable is, I imagine the KPH40 will do just fine if it's like the other 60ohm Koss that work on the Series X controller (in my experience).  I'm a big fan of the KCS75, but it's non-detachable.

I am not a try hard gamer, but Beyers are supposed to be good in that regard.  So, 900 Pro X might fit your bill.  Never tried, but the 900 Pro X are supposed to run off everything.

Also never tried, so have no clue if they get driven well:

K712 Pro have a good rep, but loudness is ???

I use the Music setting on Atmos with IEQ off.  This setting gives off more volume.

One thing I will say that might throw a wrench in my recs as far as volume:

For competitive stuff (if you use Atmos) you will want the Game setting selected with Performance Mode ticked *on*.  Performance Mode is designed for less latency in mind.  If doing casual play, ignore.


----------



## Magnus_CA

NewCoke said:


> I have used the PC38X and HD 560S on the Series X controller just fine.  The HD 560S is a better headphone, but you will want a shorter cable than stock.  However, that volume wheel on the PC38X is just super convenient for console play.
> 
> As weird as it's detachable cable is, I imagine the KPH40 will do just fine if it's like the other 60ohm Koss that work on the Series X controller (in my experience).  I'm a big fan of the KCS75, but it's non-detachable.
> 
> ...


I probably should have mentioned a balanced connection is slightly less desirable than an unbalanced one given my plans to use a V-moda mic. I'm sure the 900 x can be modded to an unbalanced plug, so I appreciate the recommendation. I have a PC38X and HD560S (and X2HR) on hand to audition. Koss hasn't been on my radar and I wrote off the K712 for impedence reasons. I need to take a closer look at those.

Thanks for the tip on the settings as well.


----------



## Radio81

Of those choices and controller power being the only option, I'd go with the PC38X.  It's a cleaner setup not having to deal with a separate mic, and the volume wheel on the earcup + flip to mute mic of the PC38X is going to work out better than the BoomPro cable volume wheel & mute button.  The BoomPro is a nice mic because it's unobtrusive, but plugged into the X2HR it is able to swivel left-to-right a bit too easily, and I find myself adjusting it often.


----------



## NewCoke

Magnus_CA said:


> I probably should have mentioned a balanced connection is slightly less desirable than an unbalanced one given my plans to use a V-moda mic. I'm sure the 900 x can be modded to an unbalanced plug, so I appreciate the recommendation. I have a PC38X and HD560S (and X2HR) on hand to audition. Koss hasn't been on my radar and I wrote off the K712 for impedence reasons. I need to take a closer look at those.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the settings as well.


Microphones are above my pay grade, but this thread might be of help with the 900 Pro X 🤷‍♂️

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gaming_Hea.../discussion_mics_that_work_with_dt_900_pro_x/


----------



## Magnus_CA

If I plan to run the Beyerdynamic DT 990 off a console controller, is the only logical model the 32 ohm?


----------



## PurpleAngel

So your planning on buying the DT990?
Soundmagic (32-Ohm) HP200, I prefer the HP200 over the DT990.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/713882329


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Jul 29, 2022)

Look what came in today!

It's also going to be my next review.

Was waiting on iFi, but ended up just buying it outright from Amazon.

edit: You know whats freaking cool? It works on PS5 through USB AND it has a workable mic on the unit itself!


----------



## Radio81

Nice!  The iFi Go Blu is likely my next BT amp purchase.  I need more power than the Fiio BTR3K offers, and really like the simplicity and size of the iFi.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

So far, it's been a nice surprise. No white noise, lots of volume even on a 6XX, USB dac/amp works on my phone, PS5, etc, it's been solid.

So yeah, for those looking at a usb dac/amp for the PS5, you have another choice, and it works for on the go Bluetooth. A bit pricey, but since I travel a lot these days, I think it's worth it.


----------



## Radio81

My main use case for the iFi might be different than most, but my PS5 setup would be:

Creative GC7 > 3.5mm to BT transmitter > BT to iFi Go Blu
Modmic wireless, headphone of choice

This is so I can transmit SXFI.  I have tried the SXFI Theater headset from Creative, and the SXFI effect is subtle compared to what you get with the SXFI amp or GC7.

I've been using the BTR3K for this, and it works ok but as I mentioned more power would be nice.

When you review it, if you could touch on the range and BT stability, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Radio81 said:


> My main use case for the iFi might be different than most, but my PS5 setup would be:
> 
> Creative GC7 > 3.5mm to BT transmitter > BT to iFi Go Blu
> Modmic wireless, headphone of choice
> ...


So my friend tested the range earlier today and between 2 walls and it was stable up to about 30feet. So I think with common sense, you can expect a pretty darn good range for a setup like yours. So if your transmitter is like in the middle of the home you're in, you should be perfectly fine anywhere in the house.


----------



## Dsbrego41

I know MLE is a big fan of virtual surround sound, but I have question that I have not been able to find info on. When using Atmos, Sonic, Wave, Redscape, or Sony Tempest at the system level (PC, XBSX, PS5) should a game that has 3D or SS in their audio tab be off or on? Does it work in conduction with system setting or double process it? Thanks for any help! Driving me nuts LOL


----------



## Chastity

Dsbrego41 said:


> I know MLE is a big fan of virtual surround sound, but I have question that I have not been able to find info on. When using Atmos, Sonic, Wave, Redscape, or Sony Tempest at the system level (PC, XBSX, PS5) should a game that has 3D or SS in their audio tab be off or on? Does it work in conduction with system setting or double process it? Thanks for any help! Driving me nuts LOL


Double processes it.  You should only use one.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Dsbrego41 said:


> I know MLE is a big fan of virtual surround sound, but I have question that I have not been able to find info on. When using Atmos, Sonic, Wave, Redscape, or Sony Tempest at the system level (PC, XBSX, PS5) should a game that has 3D or SS in their audio tab be off or on? Does it work in conduction with system setting or double process it? Thanks for any help! Driving me nuts LOL


Choose whichever sounds best for you, but yeah, don't use system level and game level audio options together. One or the other.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Guardians of the Galaxy is the only game i can think of that’s has a Dolby Atmos in game option under audio. I have to double check. I assume it’s fine to keep Atmos on the XsX at the OS level as well?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Helvetica bold said:


> Guardians of the Galaxy is the only game i can think of that’s has a Dolby Atmos in game option under audio. I have to double check. I assume it’s fine to keep Atmos on the XsX at the OS level as well?


You should just test it yourself. It'll be easy to tell if it's double processing.


----------



## Dsbrego41

Chastity said:


> Double processes it.  You should only use one.





Mad Lust Envy said:


> Choose whichever sounds best for you, but yeah, don't use system level and game level audio options together. One or the other.


Thank you both so much for your responses! LEGENDS


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Hmm, so I ended up getting a cheap Apt-X low latency transmitter to use for my TV to send audio to the iFi GO Blu. I do have optical being sent to the Creative GC7, which does SBX surround out of its optical out to the transmitter via optical.

Works fine, though Apt-X Low Latency does have some periodic 'ticks' and little sound pops, though very minor. Doesn't occur on other codecs, so it has to be the codec's lower buffer. I'll take these little audio glitches over the ever constant Astro Mixamp 5.8 hiss. Doesn't happen much, but will happen once in awhile.

Time will tell.


----------



## shagnscoob

I'm trying to find a pair of high quality wireless headphones to use with my PS3 (yes 3, I'm playing some "vintage" games), and I've been running into a few issues.

1. USB wireless tends not to work with PS3. I've tried a couple of USB wifi headsets that the PS3 identifies, but does not send audio.

2. Bluetooth is laggy. I have the PS3 routed to an AVR that does not transmit Bluetooth. I've tried a headphone jack bluetooth transmitter with aptX to send Bluetooth 5.2 to a Razer Barracuda X (headset is Bluetooth 5.2 but NOT aptX) and that's too laggy. Is aptX really fast enough?

3. I don't need a microphone.

4. Budget is wide open, I'd love to get really high quality sound if possible. But wireless & low latency is more important.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 1, 2022)

shagnscoob said:


> I'm trying to find a pair of high quality wireless headphones to use with my PS3 (yes 3, I'm playing some "vintage" games), and I've been running into a few issues.
> 
> 1. USB wireless tends not to work with PS3. I've tried a couple of USB wifi headsets that the PS3 identifies, but does not send audio.


I also have a PS3 (1st gen with full back compat) which I JUST got back from a repair shop. So I understand the desire to play older games (in my case it's JRPGS like Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile 2, Suikoden 2, Front Mission 4, etc which aren't available yet on PS5, if ever.



shagnscoob said:


> 2. Bluetooth is laggy. I have the PS3 routed to an AVR that does not transmit Bluetooth. I've tried a headphone jack bluetooth transmitter with aptX to send Bluetooth 5.2 to a Razer Barracuda X (headset is Bluetooth 5.2 but NOT aptX) and that's too laggy. Is aptX really fast enough?



Bluetooth is fast enough IF your transmitter is sending out Apt-X Low Latency in particular, and your headphones/receiver can accept Apt-X LL.



> 4. Budget is wide open, I'd love to get really high quality sound if possible. But wireless & low latency is more important.



You have various options, like what I'm doing...

You can attach an Apt-X Low Latency Bluetooth transmitter (like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086CYS884/ref=emc_b_5_i ) that has optical input from the PS3's optical out. Then find yourself an Apt-X low latency capable headset or receiver dac/amp like the Ifi Go Blu, Quedlix 5K, Fiio BTR5, etc, and attach some efficient headphones to that.

Make sure the PS3 is set for PCM audio in this case, since Dolby Digital will just be garbled noise.

There's something like Ebay-ing an Astro Mixamp 5.8 that will work just fine, though it's a hissy little bugger. This is also another plug any wired headphones to it type of device).

For FULLY wireless, well, again, get a transmitter with Apt-t X LL, and get an Apt-X LL capable headphone. Not sure I'd trust any of these over doing the first method.

I'm sure Sony has some official PS3 headsets that are wireless, but... again, YMMV.


----------



## shagnscoob

Mad Lust Envy said:


> You can attach an Apt-X Low Latency Bluetooth transmitter (like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086CYS884/ref=emc_b_5_i ) that has optical input from the PS3's optical out. Then find yourself an Apt-X low latency capable headset or receiver dac/amp like the Ifi Go Blu, Quedlix 5K, Fiio BTR5, etc, and attach some efficient headphones to that.
> 
> Make sure the PS3 is set for PCM audio in this case, since Dolby Digital will just be garbled noise.



What's the philosophy behind going directly out from PS3 vs. through the AVR outputs?


----------



## Radio81

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Hmm, so I ended up getting a cheap Apt-X low latency transmitter to use for my TV to send audio to the iFi GO Blu. I do have optical being sent to the Creative GC7, which does SBX surround out of its optical out to the transmitter via optical.
> 
> Works fine, though Apt-X Low Latency does have some periodic 'ticks' and little sound pops, though very minor. Doesn't occur on other codecs, so it has to be the codec's lower buffer. I'll take these little audio glitches over the ever constant Astro Mixamp 5.8 hiss. Doesn't happen much, but will happen once in awhile.
> 
> Time will tell.



I have the same issue with my cheap transmitter, though it doesn't happen all the time.  When it does, I power cycle the BT amp, and that usually works.  The BT transmitter I've found can also be very picky about placement.

I was also using a Mixamp 5.8 for late night TV watching prior, and couldn't take the hiss anymore.



shagnscoob said:


> What's the philosophy behind going directly out from PS3 vs. through the AVR outputs?



Most AVRs will not have an optical output


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

shagnscoob said:


> What's the philosophy behind going directly out from PS3 vs. through the AVR outputs?


Choose whatever is available to you. If you have an AVR that is connected to the system, then yeah, you can use that for the transmitter.

In the end I opted to just go back to the Mixamp 5.8. There really wouldn't be much use going my route, and it'd be more of a hassle. I don't do any critical listening for the TV, so the hiss is something I've been accustomed to for a long time.

With the cheap transmitter I used, there's setup that I'd have to do everytime, like repairign, having to switch the input just to go back. Admittedly an issue with the cheap transmitter itself. In any case, I didn't get the BT dac/amp for this purpose anyways, but it's possible if I'd wanna go that route in the future.

The ifi Go Blu is for portable use.


----------



## shagnscoob

I just picked up a Sony Gold Wireless Headset. The USB works with PS3 but those headphones are absolutely trash.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Yeah, unfortunately, PS3 era was bad times for audiophiles. It wsn't until the 2012+ era that personal audio really started to become important to the mass market.


----------



## shagnscoob

Has anyone tried to crack open the Gold headset and see if there's a way to pull out the receiver to attach to another pair of headphones?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 3, 2022)

shagnscoob said:


> Has anyone tried to crack open the Gold headset and see if there's a way to pull out the receiver to attach to another pair of headphones?


Probably a better question asked on places like Reddit, as headfi-ers don't typically bother with non-audiophile headsets. Not sure you'd get hits of that nature here. Redditors probably have more experience with those Sony headsets.

Not that the talk ain't welcome here, just saying, I don't think many people will respond about that subject here. It's pretty niche.


----------



## Chastity

shagnscoob said:


> Has anyone tried to crack open the Gold headset and see if there's a way to pull out the receiver to attach to another pair of headphones?


Probably easier to replace the drivers.


----------



## NewCoke

Beyerdynamic North America's website has a sale currently going on for B Stock right now.  They claim to replace the pads on all B stock.

I see many models available, but no DT 880 B Stock.


----------



## Radio81

NewCoke said:


> Beyerdynamic North America's website has a sale currently going on for B Stock right now.  They claim to replace the pads on all B stock.
> 
> I see many models available, but no DT 880 B Stock.



Nice.  I'm tempted to try the 900 Pro X at that price.  Anyone use that one for gaming?


----------



## Trancefreak

Question for the people that remember A3D:
I'm -> <- this close on giving up trying to source a high end vortex card for a retro build, which was the whole reason for the retro build.
Would you say Redscape offers similar surround sound simulation, or is A3D still undisputed after all these years?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 5, 2022)

Trancefreak said:


> Question for the people that remember A3D:
> I'm -> <- this close on giving up trying to source a high end vortex card for a retro build, which was the whole reason for the retro build.
> Would you say Redscape offers similar surround sound simulation, or is A3D still undisputed after all these years?


I don't have any experience with retro surround emulation. The earliest I personally have gone to is Dolby Headphone Room 1, 2, and 3 from the Victor SU-DH1 and Asus Xonar U3. I still use Dolby Headphone 2 daily through my Mixamp 5.8 from 2013, which is what I use for my TV/console use (though if a game supports it, I'll use Sony Tempest 3D instead on the PS5).

But yeah, for PC use, I've almost entirely stuck to Redscape. It just works extremely well for me, and I love the versatility of being able to use it with any gear on PC.

Would I say it's the best? Hmm.... I dunno. It's up there for my tastes, but I think Sennheiser GSX, and Creative SXFI are the two best for me. Redscape would probably be #3. They're all fantastic for me. Redscape does have a one up on both of those though, in that it doesn't have as much reverb in comparison, if you're sensitive to that. Redscape and Creative SBX are the best in terms of surround effect in relation to the reverb they have. GSX and SXFI can have quite a bit of reverb (though GSX1000 has 3 settings for the GSX surround, in which I like the medium setting i.e. 1 + symbol). SXFI has a battle mode which I think sounds insanely weird, and SXFI proper has a lot of reverb you have to acclimate to, but once you do, I think it's arguably the most impressive surround emulation.

I don't use SXFI mainly because I'm lazy, and only have the Creative GC7 setup as my microphone device. That and I can't send SXFI digitally, which is the biggest shortcoming.


----------



## Chastity

Trancefreak said:


> Question for the people that remember A3D:
> I'm -> <- this close on giving up trying to source a high end vortex card for a retro build, which was the whole reason for the retro build.
> Would you say Redscape offers similar surround sound simulation, or is A3D still undisputed after all these years?


I did reviews for 3DSoundSurge, and nitpicked Aureal 3D to death.    It was between that and CMSS-3D for top crown at the time.  (CMSS-3D set to Headphone and game set to 7.1 was insanely good, using async tricks to get that)  Today, Waves NX and Redscape, when tuned to your physical dimensions, is also spot on.  Unfortunately if you don't have a license for Waves NX 1.x, you would need to get a piece of hardware to get the 2.0 app.  I've thought of buying a cheap headset that comes with the software just to get the software.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Uncompressed Stereo set on XsX with 3D Headphones in BF2042 sounded better than expected with the SteelSeries Arctis Nova pro wired. Oddly I still get 24 bit audio on PS5 and 16 bit on XsX.


----------



## Chastity

Redscape 1.4.9 snuck out, no change log

In-app downloader not running the installer, had to nab it manually from download link in email.


----------



## Zachik

Chastity said:


> Redscape 1.4.9 snuck out, no change log


*Version 1.4.9

General*

Various stability and performance improvements.
Default WASAPI to latency recommended by the output audio device driver.
Smaller internal ASIO buffer for improved latency.
Fixed clipping indicators not displaying in certain output modes.


----------



## Chastity

*Version 1.4.10*​
*General* 

Various stability and performance improvements.
Default WASAPI to latency recommended by the output audio device driver.
Smaller internal ASIO buffer for improved latency.           
Fixed clipping indicators not displaying in certain output modes.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I've written most of my iFi GO blu review. Just gotta add the pictures, and touch up some stuff but the written portion is basically 99% done.  So I'd anticipate posting the iFi GO Blu review next week.

The review ain't nothing special, but hey, it's been awhile, so I appreciate you guys reading it!


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> I've written most of my iFi GO blu review. Just gotta add the pictures, and touch up some stuff but the written portion is basically 99% done.  So I'd anticipate posting the iFi GO Blu review next week.
> 
> The review ain't nothing special, but hey, it's been awhile, so I appreciate you guys reading it!


What's the main limiting factor on your reviews these days? Time and energy? Or access to reviewable gear?


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 12, 2022)

JdeFalconr said:


> What's the main limiting factor on your reviews these days? Time and energy? Or access to reviewable gear?


Eh, mainly just lack of time. Reviewable gear might actually be easier now if I throw some feelers, though I have to be a little more careful on choices due to conflicts of interests, and the like. 

Audeze hasn't really put any real restriction, but I wouldn't count on seeing direct competition reviews these days. I could stretch some stuff one way or another, but I'd want to run it by people to see if it was ok. They knew what I did before hire, so they're a little more malleable about me reviewing stuff.

I think at the very least we do have some price points that we don't hit, so I can review things there, as well as make the argument of dynamic headphones not being direct competition to planars, etc. I also havbe free reign on things like amp/dacs/sources, etc, which isn't something we really do.

Rest assured I wouldn't review anything I don't like (that will always be the standard for me.) I don't wanna waste time writing about stuff I don't think is cool, especially nowadays where I'm much more busy.

The GO Blu was something I thought was cool, so I felt it was worth reviewing. That's pretty much it.


----------



## JdeFalconr

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Eh, mainly just lack of time. Reviewable gear might actually be easier now if I throw some feelers, though I have to be a little more careful on choices due to conflicts of interests, and the like.
> 
> Audeze hasn't really put any real restriction, but I wouldn't count on seeing direct competition reviews these days. I could stretch some stuff one way or another, but I'd want to run it by people to see if it was ok. They knew what I did before hire, so they're a little more malleable about me reviewing stuff.
> 
> ...


Makes total sense. Speaking for myself reviews from someone who is unbiased (or at least is minimally-biased enough to admit their predilections) and who isn't beholden to advertising revenue or self-aggrandizement (e.g. driving subscriptions or viewers).


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I promise I'm almost done with the Go Blu review. I just need to take some pics and proofread before posting. Just been busy at work.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 19, 2022)

Well, here it is. I'll likely be editing it a bit as I spot things I don't like, but you guys can consider it 99.9999% done.

Hopefully it looks ok. I'm out of practice.


----------
----------

*iFi GO blu*



*Price as of August 2022: $199.00
Where to Buy: ifi-audio, Amazon, *and many other places.

_Disclaimer: The iFi GO blu was paid entirely out of pocket, as I was interested in the product for personal reasons (particularly portable use with my Koss clip on headphones). I did initially send iFi a message to see if they'd be willing to send one out for review, but after an initial response, they got back to me a bit too late. I had already purchased it, and don't have the intention on returning it. Probably spoilers, but anyways.

As always, whether products are sent to me or not, I do my best in being 100% honest with my views and opinions. If I don't like a product, I will refuse to write a review of it, or at the very least mention what I don't like about them, though I like to focus on products that people would like or at the very least are interested in. The only bias I have is to my readers. No one, iFi or otherwise, paid or asked me for anything._



*Intro*​
Hi guys, been some time since my last review! Why am I reviewing a miniature, portable bluetooth/usb amp/dac? Initially, I just wanted something to write about, as it had been so long since I've done a review. Well, really, I bought the GO blu on a whim due to the ever increasing frequency of my travels lately. It wasn't something I had concrete plans to review, but I figured why not? It'd be nice to just put thoughts on digital paper again.

Once the GO blu arrived, I realized this little thing is absolutely worth talking about. However, a warning to those who would expect some regular BT dac/amp review: That is not my forte, and I'm going to approach this in a more casual manner. I'm not going to be focus on its raw sound quality performance, nor comparisons to other gear in terms of its sound.

My expectations for it or any dac/amp is to sound close to neutral and sound great. That's all I need from it, sound-wise. Sound is a transducer's main role, and that's where I place the most importance in terms of what I'm actually hearing. I expect the Blu to let the transducers work well enough to do their job. No more, no less. So curb expectations on extensive sound impressions. Ok? Moving on.

As mentioned earlier, I have found myself travelling quite a bit for events, and wanted to step up my portable audio game. Not much mind you, but mainly because I had been mostly limited to plugging in my Portapro on KSC75 clips directly to my phone via the USB port through some USB to 3.5mm dongle (JSAUX brand). Hey, that little dongle has gotten me through thick and thin these past few years when I worked as a security guard overnights in the middle of downtown Orlando. However, I forgot it one trip and had to pony up for an Apple dongle from the airport, and found it was far, FAR inferior to that JSAUX dongle in terms of volume output through my phone. No bueno. Thankfully, once I got back home, my faithful JSAUX dongle was there waiting for me.

As much as I love the thing, I'm annoyed at needing to choose whether I listen to my headphones, or charge the phone (I do know of dongles that have a type C input and 3.5mm input, so you can charge and listen at the same time, but naaaaaaaaah).

I'm far off the rails here. In any case, my Koss Portapros were MMCX modded by fellow head-fier @Zerousen back in the day, and figured I may as well start looking for MMCX Bluetooth cables I could use. Everything I've found online had the IEM ear hook curvature that wouldn't look right with the Koss clip-ons, and so I gave up on that particular search.

Then I heard about products like the Fiio BTR5, and Qudelix 5K. These things were right up my alley. Connect my wired headphones to a device that is wirelessly connected to my source? TELL ME MORE. I was already sort of accustomed to this type of device with my Astro Mixamp 5.8, which is a zero lag gaming dac/amp from about 10 years ago. It has a very... uh, noticeable noise floor (she's a HISSY lady), but for my purpose of late night, bedtime TV listening, she's fine enough indeed.

However, I needed something outside of home use. My mind was set. I'm getting me a portable BT dac/amp for my beloved travel companions This led me down a rabbit hole of studying what would best fit my needs and then some. I mean, I'm already going to spend a hundo or more on this, this thing better do some thangz, though really, not MUCH. If it's going to be Bluetooth, I immediately thought up of some things I'd like it to have:

A low latency codec support, preferably Apt-X Low Latency
Apt-X HD or LDAC for that crispy clean audio

That's pretty much it really. I'm easy to please, I guess. Now, Apt-X low latency isn't typically something receiver devices like these BT dac/amps will mention. That's something a transmitter will have to mention. Luckily plenty of cheap Apt-X transmitters that do Low Latency modes, so I'm squared away there (eventually, if I feel the need to use it wirelessly at home, which isn't a pressing necessity).

At first, I was set on either the Fiio BTR5+ or Qudelix 5K. but then I saw a little thing called the iFi GO blu. What's this? It's plug and play AND has a volume knob? Whelp... sorry to the other two, you lost me at digital buttons. Let me be clear here in saying the GO blu HAS a bunch of technologies (like Direct Drive) that we are not directly adjusting, and I'd welcome you to check out the *product page* for all that, but I'm here as a simple consumer that just wants something simple despite what is laying underneath. 

Was I really going to spend nearly double JUST because it has a volume knob? Well...yes, yes I was. It's like that, sometimes. In hindsight, there are other Bluetooth portable dac/amps that also have a volume wheel, but I found out about them after the GO blu arrived. I may have gone that route, but I still feel that even at the price, the GO blu is worth investigating. Besides, it's painless and simplistic, and that's how I like my gear. Set it and forget it.



*What's In the Box?*​
The GO blu comes in a fairly small white box, which I'm quite pleased with. No waste of space here or packaging excess here. It comes with a small (carton?) quick start guide, a little folded document with some misc information you may need, and the main contents.



*iFI GO blu -* I'll speak of the unit more in the build section, but man, is she small.

*USB-C to USB-A cable -* About a 6" cable plug to plug. Not sure I'd get much use out of such a short cable, though with the welcome surprise of the GO blu being a usb dac/amp as well, it could be nice to use with the laptop. I do wish it had a bit more cable slack.

*Microfiber protective pouch -* This is nice to have if you plan on storing the unit for some length of time, though since I expect to use this heavily when I'm on trips, there won't be much reason to put it away in a pouch, personally. I would've preferred it include a case, though you'll have to pony up $30 or so for *iFi's official case* for it, which I feel is a bit steep for what you get. Ah well.

All in all, the contents in the package are satisfactory, though I would've preferred at least a 1ft cable, and a case instead of the pouch.

_*Note:* I did purchase the GO Blu Case, with clip, and found it to be somewhat disappointing. The case is fine in terms of protecting the main body of the unit (not so much the knob), but I was disappointed by it's clip, which doesn't have that much tension, and find the 'overhanging 'notch' that should grip and hold the clip in place to be too small. It doesn't latch onto my belt, or even my shirt securely enough. Seriously, the purpose to have a clip is so you can have it latch onto a belt or a shirt, and it just doesn't do that well. So I opted to return it, for some __*Miter case on Amazon *__with a hoop and lanyard. Not sure how I'll secure the Blu with that, but I'll take that instead of a non-functioning clip._



*Build Quality*​
The blu is a tiny little wonder. It certainly looks sleek and attractive. I wouldn't certainly wouldn't kick a bigger version of this design as a more serious dac/amp out of bed. She pretty.

*Size:*

Woah. Just woah.



I did NOT expect the GO blu to be THIS small! I would've preferred something a little larger, if mainly because this thing is so tiny, I am in constant fear of losing it. Thank GOODNESS the 4.4mm input is so grippy. The unit doesn't detach from whatever is plugged into it without some considerable intent to unplug. As long as my headphones are connected to this thing, she's likely not going anywhere but wherever my headphones are.


*Weight:*

It weighs nothing. I mean it. It may as well state 0g. Ok, not that crazy, (the product page states 26g). There's some feeling of density in that tiny body, but really, the Blu is as light as it is small. Apparently, it weighs less than a single AA battery. I believe it. What I'm implying here is, if you have the unit in your pocket, don't expect to KNOW it's there based on weight. You'd lose the unit long before noticing the weight. Can't say if that's a good thing or bad. I think I'd feel better had it carried some heft to it. Not everything in this world needs to be as small and weightless as possible. Not that I blame iFi here. For every person that wants some weight, I'm sure there are two that don't.


*Front:*

The Blu's soft-touch polymer body has a sleek brushed metal-esque front with the iFi branding, and black polymer accent on the right side, with the side mounted wheel on the top right as the defining feature. There's nothing else outside of this, and personally, there doesn't need to be. Sure, other models would have some fancy OLED screen, or other indicators, but I, for one like the discreet, no nonsense look. Again, I want to keep it as simple as possible, and this works for me.


*Bottom:*

Not much to say here. You'll find the FCC sticker, Hi-Res Audio Wireless badge, QR code for the product page, and there's some stealthy text you'll only see if you shine a light on the unit showcasing where the Power button is, the settings button, and other miscellaneous info.


*Sides:*

Power button- On the left side (if you were to lay the Blu down), all you get is a simple button. This button obviously turns the unit off/on and if you double-tap while the Blu is ON and connected through Bluetooth, it informs you (in a very attractive, British female voice), the current BT codec in use.

Settings/pairing button - The right side holds a button which toggles between the Xbass and Xspace settings, as well as put the device into pairing mode when long pressing. My only gripe here is that this I wish the button was placed more towards the center, just like the Power button is on the other side, as it's far too close to the knob, and I find myself accidentally pressing it all the time by accident. It's not a big deal and I do understand why they offset the button, to at least differentiate it from the other button, though I feel it would've worked best with the Power button being the offset button, with this this button being the one more centralized on the side, further away from the knob. Maybe something for a future version. I'll speak of the settings functions in a later section.

Multi-function Knob - On the top corner on the right side of the unit is the multi-function knob, and oh what a lovely knob it is. It's not a smooth, free-flowing wheel, so it's not going to accidentally go full blast without some effort in adjustment. As you turn the wheel, it has an audible click as well, which adds to the tactile feel. There needs to be some intent for the wheel to actually move steps. It sounds and feels great to adjust.


*Functions:*

Volume control - adjusts volume in 2 step increments out of 100 on Windows, system-tied. On my Galaxy android phone it is also tied to the system volume (in Bluetooth mode, not USB mode), though it offers much, much more granularity than the volume buttons on my phone.

Play/Pause (short clock/pressing in on the center)
Skip forward (two clicks in)
Skip (three clicks)
Wake up voice assistant (long press)

Of course the only real feature I care about here is the actual volume adjustment. After all, it's the specific reason I chose the blu over the competitors, so it better be good, and it IS.

You would think there's not MUCH of a reason to adjust the volume on the unit when you can just do it on your phone (if on the go), but I found the granular adjustment much more appealing than the large steps on my phone's volume adjustment. Even if I'm literally holding the phone in my hands, I instinctively reach into my pocket to adjust the volume on the blu instead. On PC with the blu as my USB dac/amp, I feel less inclined to control the unit, mainly due to having a keyboard with a volume knob. As the blu is tied to system volume, the keyboard works just as well.


*Bottom:*

USB port - Moving to the bottom of the unit, we start with type C port which charges the unit as well as provide the usb dac/amp functionality.

LED indicator - To the right of the USB port is an led battery level indicator. Green is over 60% charge, Yellow is between 10% and 60%, and Red means you're low in battery (below 10%). It will also flash when charging.

Microphone - Next to the LED indicator is the built in microphone. Wait... what? I had NO idea this thing had a microphone! Nice! But wait, how effective can the blu be as a microphone, when it's almost guaranteed to be in the pants pocket? I really don't know. We'll find out together, I guess!

Factory Reset button - Not much to say here, but to the left side of the USB port is a reset button, which you'll need a needle to press in for 3+ seconds.

*Top:*

3.5mm port
4.4mm balanced pentaconn port
Sound effect mode indicator and bluetooth status led indicator


*Final Thoughts On Build:*

I believe the iFi GO blu is very well built, with a handsome design, and relatively great physical functionality.

I'd have preferred a dac/amp closer to the size of a credit card, and there's a few changes I'd like to see for a future model like some shifts in button placement (though with space at a premium, it's probably the best they could do). Really though, those are very minor things that don't affect much in the way of seeing the blu as a physically fantastic design in all aspects. Outside of the molding line on the sides that splits the unit evenly, she looks and feels like quality.



*Ease Of Use*​
I'm of two minds when it comes to audio products. Either keep it simple, or throw as many options as possible. I like both approaches, but greatly prefer the simple stuff.

The blu falls into the latter camp, and I'm all for it. There's nothing to configure or mess with outside of what's on the unit itself, which isn't much. Yes, for those who love to tweak all aspects of their sound, you may be better off with the BTR5+ or 5K,  but I generally prefer my dac/amps as dumb as possible. I want to be able to take it out of the box, turn it on, connect it to my source, and it just WORKS as intended. That's precisely what the blu does. Plug and play. No software, no max abundance of settings, no guesswork.

I don't want to know what digital filter is used in the DAC. I don't care. Does it sound good? Cool. that's all I need to know. It doesn't have EQ? Oh well, there's 8 million apps that do that if I really need it. Outside of the simple bass boost and spatial enhancement toggle, that's really all that is necessary to me.

With that out of the way, there are some things like my propensity to hit the sound effects button by accident, which then toggles on the subtle bass boost (as I generally leave it off, so it's the first setting that gets enabled by accident).



*Connectivity*​
I may have jumped into getting the blu mainly for the purpose of using it for portable bluetooth purposes, but to my surprise, the blu is quite a handy little dac/amp with considerable versatility in its connectivity. It actually makes a compelling case for being a pretty nifty gaming dac/amp as well! Of course, $200 is not something gamers will balk at like it's nothing, but if you were already considering the blu for any reason, just know that it has some tricks up its sleeve that you may not have been aware of, just as I wasn't.


*1. USB Dac/Amp*

Through the USB type C interface, the GO blu can be used as a standard USB DAC/AMP like any other. Any device that accepts USB Audio will pick up the blu, including game consoles like the PS4 and PS5!



Considering the PS5 only accepts UAC1, either the blu is a UAC1 device, or has auto-switching. Perhaps someone out there knows, and if so, I will update the findings here. The blu can also go up to 2ch 24bit/96khz for Hi-Res audio playback. My Samsung Note 20 Ultra also picked it up via USB C to USB C cable, and is picked up as a 'Headset'.

My phone's system volume and blu's volume knob are not tied to one another, so I'd need to max out phone volume, while controlling the volume with the blu. I'm sure most people aren't likely to use the blu hardwired to their phones and would opt for the bluetooth connection instead. At least the option is here, and I could see it being valid for gamers that don't want to deal with bluetooth latency. I'm unsure if there are actual handheld devices that output Apt-X Low Latency directly.


*2. Bluetooth*

This is the blu's likely main method of use for most people, in which they're treated with a very reliable device. The product page states that the blu accepts everything from SBC, AAC, Apt-X "Classic" (as the voice prompt states), Apt-X Low Latency, Apt-X HD, and LDAC connections. It also mentions Apt-X Adaptive and HWA/LHDC, though I can't verify these on my end.

In my findings, the connection has been rock solid on all codecs (though I'll have some random hitches with Apt-X LL, though not sure if it's related to the unit, or the BT transmitter that was outputting Apt-X Low Latency. Even those are quite minor. I'd have try multiple transmitters to truly know if it's the blu, or something else.



To my surprise, my 2021 LG C1 OLED TV output Bluetooth through Apt-X, instead of the bare minimum SBC.

One thing that the GO blu has assured me of, it's that any amp/dac I'd ever consider in the future BETTER have bluetooth capabilities. I think we're at a point where certain versatility is a must, and the option of bluetooth for on the go use is now a requirement. All portable amp/dac makers better listen. The GO blu has spoiled me with this, and I can't believe people buy portable amp/dacs that don't have this feature. It needs to be a core function. The GO blu may not have a million features, but this one is integral, and thankfully, iFi has provided us with a fantastic implementation.



*Range*​
BT range is also pretty great for my needs. I tested the GO blu being on opposite ends of my source in my home with multiple walls, without drops or connection issues. I had to step outside and move quite a ways away to get the connection to drop. Personally, I don't plan on using my Blu farther than about 20 feet max from my source, so for my needs, it's 10/10 perfect.



*Latency*​
Bluetooth latency is variable depending on codec, and I'm generally fine with Apt-X or Apt-X HD/LDAC for normal content, though I definitely would need Apt-X Low Latency for any legitimate gaming needs. The responsiveness of Apt-X LL is perfectly fine, though I wouldn't want anything worse in terms of response.



*Battery Life*​
In the interest of time, and getting the review out sometime this decade, I was unable to extensively test the battery life. iFi states that you'll get around 8hrs on average, though it largely depends on the headphones used, and the volume level. I don't expect to have much issues in terms of using the Blu on the go for travel, as I'd mainly use an easy to drive PortaPro at around half volume output or less, and I'm very good at charging my electronics once I hit a hotel. Of course, I think portable devices should have 12-16hrs for some headroom, hence why I'd be much more interested in seeing iFi come up with a beefier version of this design with double the battery life, at a larger footprint.

The great thing about the Blu is that you can fully charge the unit in less than an hour, so I would be fine chucking it into my backpack or pocket with a portable charger for 20 minutes here or there to get the vast majority of the battery life back to deal with the rest of the day. Not ideal, but really, not something I'd be annoyed with really. I was already used to doing that with my heavy phone usage.

If you're extremely lazy when it comes to charging, then yeah, perhaps it may come up at least once if you have a very long travel day.



*Amplification/Sound*​
I don't expect anyone to take me seriously in terms of what the tiny little GO blu can power, and I may not have the most demanding headphones out there. So take that as you will.

Let me state that 99.9% of my listening was done through the 4.4mm balanced input, because well... I want to utilize the blu to its fullest, and don't feel like nerfing its performance by utilizing it's lesser powered single ended connection. If you care about that, the blu does provide a nice amount of power with the unbalanced connection, and you may even gain a bit more battery life doing so. But hey, this is my first 4.4mm balanced amp, and by golly, I'm gonna use it in that way! Be prepared to need about 7-8 more volume steps on the physical knob (15 or so digital values) to eek out the same amount of volume from the single-ended connection.

From sensitive headphones like the Audeze LCD-1, LCD-X, Focal Elex, and Koss PortaPro, I found the Blu to provide ample volume with plenty to spare to each of these. They all sounded plenty dynamic and not lacking in what I'd consider to be drivability, though it may not be considered the optimal experience.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, the hardest headphones I currently have to drive are the LCD-2 and LCD-5 as far as current hungry, and Sennheiser 6XX as voltage hungry. I found the little GO Blu to provide a satisfactory experience on all fronts, though again, you may want to invest in something a bit more substantial for these headphones to eek out the most out of them. That being said, I had a great enough experience with the GO blu, certainly enough for casual listening were I'm not bothered with extracting the last bit of performance. Like laying in bed and listening to any of these headphones without the cabling required for 'optimal' amplification. Sometimes, I just don't care, and the blu allows me to enjoy these headphones in that manner. Who's gonna yell at me that I'm not using a $5000 setup to get these headphones to sound perfect? I'm in BED, in my boxers, listening to LCD-5s on an amp the size of my thumb, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. 



In all seriousness, I felt the hardest thing to drive in terms of volume output was the 6XX/LCD-5, and there was pleeeeenty to spare. Of course, volume =/= transient drivability, but I had a good time with the blu, and that's all that matters. Besides, I don't expect many of you will be interested in the blu for high-end, high power headphone listening to begin with. This is a miniature portable amp/dac, and I would advise on looking into it if that's your main case. You know, headphones you'd use portably, which don't typically require desktop amplification levels of power. I hear there's some beefy stuff that have been unveiled recently by other companies, if you're so worried about it.

I came away quite happy with the blu, and know that if I want to take a full sized headphone with me to use at a hotel or something, the blu packs a decent punch, without destroying the sound quality.

I'm not golden eared enough to give you solid A/B comparisons between how it sounds next to my 'real' gear. There are plenty of other people that will do that for you. I'm here simply to tell you: The GO blu sounds full, rich, and dynamic without doing a disservice to whatever headphones you connect to it, within reason. I probably wouldn't suggest you try a 600ohm Beyerdynamic, or Sennheiser HD800 with it, but everything I tried still sounded like a good version of themselves, without any real obvious flaws/shortcomings. If anything, it may be a little warm tuned next to my Schiit Jotunheim 2. Not as tactile and precise, but nothing I'd be angry about. Again, enjoyable with all my headphones.

My aim wasn't to dissect the sound to its core. I got the GO Blu for its usability first. All I needed for the sound was for it not to bastardize what I expect out of my headphones. To provide enough power, sound clean, not have any weird glitches or noisy background, and allow me to enjoy sound on the go. It exceeded these things without questions, and that's all that was necessary as far as I'm concerned. Sounds great, period.


*Sound Modes:*

The blu has 4 modes, each having a corresponding led color near the headphone jacks on the top of the unit. Standard (no LED), XBass (yellow), XSpace (cyan/blue), XBass + XSpace (white). It seems iFi decided to go the subtle route, which I think is the right call.


*XBass - *This seems to add a bass shelf up a few decibels. It is loudest to my ears in the 20-60hz range, though it will fill out the bass and effect everything up to around 200hz or so. I think it's a mild boost without treading on being boomy or messy. As someone reserved in the ways of adjusting any of my headphones with any optional sonic enhancements (outside of injecting virtual surround processing for gaming/movies), I believe this is a fantastic option to fill out headphones lacking in lower end richness. definitely something I used when messing about with my LCD-5.


*XSpace - *I have more to say about XSpace than XBass. You may consider it some form of soundstage enhancer, though I think it's easier to understand it as a beneficial crossfeed. Yes, in audio or headphones, people generally want to remove crosstalk (for those who don't know, think of it as one channel, say...left channel, receiving audio from the right channel, but at a much lower volume, and vice versa. However, if you've ever heard those old 60's/70's tracks that have really hard panning left and right... it can sound disorienting, and outright annoying. Bleeding some audio from the opposite channel can greatly reduce this jarring effect, and make the sound come across as more natural. After all, outside of the world of headphones, we hear everything with BOTH ears. So our ears have a natural crossfeed, which we use for the entire world of sound.

In terms of how XSpace sounds, if you were to do a basic left/right stereo test with XSpace enabled, the left channel will instead sound like it's slightly in front of you, near your left eye, instead of directly next to your left ear. Same with right audio sounding closer to your right eye, instead of directly next to your right ear.

It's VERY obvious with hard panning effects, but outside of that, it's incredibly hard to notice with most general media. This is mostly in part due to most audio (even music) nowadays being mixed with some crossfeed to begin with. So you may find that you can't really tell a difference. It also has a subtle reverb effect outside of this, but you may find it to be really, really minor, and unnoticeable if you're not looking for it.

The XSpace option is a neat effect which greatly reduces the annoyance of older stereo recordings that use a lot of hard panning effects. Outside of this,  I didn't find much of a reason to use it, as I didn't find any real soundstage 'expansion' to a noticeable degree. It's still a welcome option, however. I found myself using it for general media outside of music, like Youtube videos, and TV shows, if mainly because there's no benefit to having hard left/right pans, and reducing that annoyance is a net positive.


*XBass + XSpace - *This is pretty obvious in what it does, which is, to combine both XBass and XSpace. It's a neat option, but you'll find XBass to be the more noticeable addition here. This may be something I'd consider using for movies or casual, immersive gaming. It won't replace my serious virtual surround oriented home gaming, but perhaps something nice to have for phone/tablet use.



*Microphone*​
Here's something I never thought this would a have. The little thing actually has a microphone! I don't expect it to replace a real mic, but it works in a pinch. Below is a playlist of some testing done (I apologize for the low volume, in advance). All testing was done at my computer desk with the AC and ceiling fan on, so there may be a bit of ambient noise. First few tests were done via USB through the laptop, and the others were done through Bluetooth also through the laptop. I don't expect people to be holding onto the unit when taking calls on the go, so I also did one test with the device in my pants pocket. Not sure I feel confident it using it in this manner and would probably recommend holding onto the unit when taking calls.

_*Note:* The recordings are quite low in volume (purely a recording issue on my end, and NOT the device itself), so please adjust volume accordingly._



Honestly though, I'd probably disable the mic feature on my phone's BT settings for the Go Blu, and stick to using the phone for calls. Not that it's inherently bad, mind you, but because I instinctively talk through the phone for calls, and would feel really stupid about doing that while the mic in use is in my pocket. Your mileage may vary depending on whether you're used to external devices as mics when taking calls.



*Comparisons*​
I can't really make any comparisons as this is my first bluetooth oriented dac/amp, and wouldn't be valid to compare it to desktop dac/amps. The closest things I had were the Schiit Fulla and Creative G6 as far as how well the usb dac/amp portion is implemented, and the fact that none of these need external power. In that regard, the iFi GO blu is infinitely more portable than either of those, as well as having benefit of a balanced input, which those two lacked.

The Fulla 4 was close to it in regards to it being as plug and play as possible, whereas the Creative G6 works best when paired with its substantial software suite (though it has plenty of its options also on the unit itself). If I wanted a USB portable dac/amp for something like a laptop, I think I'd prefer going with one of those instead of the iFi GO blu. However neither have bluetooth capabilities, which limits their versatility. The GO blu is the king of flexibility in comparison. Despite this, laptop use wasn't my top priority for this unit. Bluetooth connection to my phone is, and this is where it outshines anything I've ever tested.



*Personal Recommendations*​
The GO blu is pretty easy to slot into specific use cases. The simpler, the better.

You should be looking into getting one if your main use case is bluetooth.  For that it has great versatility, with fantastic codec support.

Power output is pretty high for how small the unit is, and on my unit (as of August 2022) I had no issues with range, disconnects, or hiss/noise.

It's also a pretty good choice as usb dac/amp, though if that's what you want first and foremost, I think your money is better spent elsewhere. You can easily get more substantial dac/amps for the price. However, if you already happen to have it for bluetooth purposes, the usb dac/amp functionality is a nice bonus. Doubly so in that it works for (non-Xbox) consoles as well. Unexpected, but highly welcome.



*Likes and Dislikes*​
*Likes*

Physical knob/wheel (Dat knob tho!)
Power output
Clean sound
Simplicity (It just works, no nonsense to mess with)
USB dac/amp capabilities
Xbass and Xspace are nice, subtle sound enhancements
Bluetooth range and quality

*Dislikes*

No included clip/case (this really should be part of the package, considering the premium cost)
Button placement (minor gripe really)
Not feature rich (if you value that)



*Final Impressions*​
Is the iFi GO blu something you all need to go out and get right now? It's a fantastic, simple, highly portable, and powerful (for its size) bluetooth AND usb dac/amp. It's also one of the more expensive offerings, with less features than its competitors. Personally speaking, I value the simplicity, and volume knob above anything else the other bluetooth dac/amps would provide. I personally don't really tweak my sound, and would rather leave it to external programs (i.e. an app on a phone) to do that sort of customization.

If you value a host of options and features, look elsewhere. Personally, if I'm on the go, I'm not trying to mess around with much of anything but volume adjustment, and the GO blu is perfect for me in that regard. Nothing beats a good ol' volume wheel, especially one that feels THIS good. If you're like me and like to keep things absurdly simple where you just plug in your headphones, connect to your source device, and go on about your day, the iFi GO blu is the one to get.


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## rocketron

Mega review.
Well done.👍
Love my Go Blu and use it with everything from single driver iems, Grados and even 800s.
Super simple small unit that just works.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Aug 19, 2022)

Woke up today and felt the need to add a few more things to the review. Added a new spart to the bluetooth section, as well as added another like, as well as some more error corrections. This is what I mean by 99.9999% done. It never ends.


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## illram (Aug 20, 2022)

Had no idea the GO blu existed. Excellent review!

Surprised the Earstudio ES100 didn't make it into the comparator list. LDAC, APT-X, balanced out, same size (maybe smaller?), half the price and comes with a clip even, lol. But that VOLUME KNOB looks damn sexy, not gonna lie. The little tiny buttons on my earstudio are really my only complaint. Nice and satisfying volume control is a big quality of life improvement for sure.


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## rivenshield

Hi, i am new to audiophile gaming so sorry for total ignorance and also for bad english 

i have read nearly all entries and got little confused.

I'am looking for dac/amp for ps5. I can't buy any Schiit products because they are not available here. And also i want to experience virtual surround. So i narrow down my options to soundblaster g6 and gc7. 

I have no experience of dacs. But from what i read, i think g6 is great about audio quality and all around best for gaming and listening. And sbx works very well. 
But gc7 has Super X-Fi which is different and for some people greater virtual surround implementation. But gc7's sbx and sx-fi has serious problems.

I play games with  my samsung HW-Q950A soundbar so surround implementation is very important for me. If gc7's works fine with both sbx and sx-fi  it would be ideal for me.

I am far from audiophile but i want some quality listening. Is there really significant audio quality difference between gc7, g6, hel2 and ifi zen dac v2?

ı have dt 770 pro 80 ohm. I am playing mainly action adventure and rpg games. I want open back and planar magnetic headphone like hifiman edition xs. I have read really interesting things on this page about edition xx. Would moving from dt 770 pro to something like edition xs be a great upgrade, a night and day difference?  Because there ise a dilemma for me. In my country these headphones are very very expensive but if ı dont buy now i may never buy or at least for a long time. 

hifiman edition xs is relatively cheap for now in my city but i am open to suggestions for under 500 dolar headphones

again really sorry for my english )


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## Mad Lust Envy

rivenshield said:


> Hi, i am new to audiophile gaming so sorry for total ignorance and also for bad english
> 
> i have read nearly all entries and got little confused.
> 
> ...


Hi. PS5 already has virtual surround. You can use Tempest 3D audio.

However if you want to use SBX or SXFI, you will likely need to send PS5 audio to HDMI out to your TV, and ensure your TV is able to send out dolby digital through it's optical out port (make sure the TV is set to Bitstream for this. PCM will not send Dolby Digital).

USB support will not send proper SBX or SXFI from the PS5, as it is limited to 2ch audio through USB. It will have to be from an optical input.

As for sound difference, worry more about the features and not the sound between those. The Hel 2 and Zen DAC v2 are more simple, and I'm not even sure the Zen Dac even supports USB audio from the PS5. Hel 2 does.


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## Chastity

Discovered something interesting today... I'm watching some old TV shows in DD 2.0 audio, and I find using Redscape on the audio track is quite significant;y better than just straight to headphone.  The audio feels it's coming from in front of me, and there's some spatial ambience to enjoy, so it's more like watching TV in a room.


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## Mad Lust Envy

Well yeah, that's what virtual surround does. You're just emulating two speakers in front of you. Even without proper surround, I like to use dsps for stereo content outside of music.

Despite what people say, it IS more natural to hear room reflections than a standard headphone stereo sound. We were never meant to hear sounds with just one ear.


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## PurpleAngel

rivenshield said:


> Hi, i am new to audiophile gaming so sorry for total ignorance and also for bad english
> i have read nearly all entries and got little confused.
> I'am looking for dac/amp for ps5. I can't buy any Schiit products because they are not available here. And also i want to experience virtual surround. So i narrow down my options to soundblaster g6 and gc7.
> I have no experience of dacs. But from what i read, i think g6 is great about audio quality and all around best for gaming and listening. And sbx works very well.
> ...


I know very little about Playstations audio.
My two cents.
Might be better to get an external USB DAC/amp, that only processes two channels in and two channels out to the headphones.
Something like the Schiit Hel should do the job.
Takstar HF 580 Planar headphones, with Sendyaudio AVIA ear pads 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832811570677.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.3a892e0eAncau5
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2255800528283235.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.435038daGpzggM&mp=1


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## Helvetica bold

Would the XsX HDMI to TV and Fulla E connected via optical provide better audio than what Im currently getting from the new Nova Pro wired via USB? 
I ask because I get 48kHz/16 bit with Dolby Headphone enabled. Perhaps that's as good as it gets. Or is my concern ridiculous between 24 vs 16 bit? PS5 will output 24 bit according to the new Arctis Gamedac over USB. Maybe Im just having an OCD moment.


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## AudioManNewb

volly said:


> Well...just got in the Epos H6Pro and GSX 300 AMP/DAC.
> H6Pro:
> 
> GSX 300:
> ...


How do you like the 7.1 on the GSX? I was curious how the surround sound compared to its big brother GSX 1000.


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## Helvetica bold

Anyone pick up the Arctis Nova Pro Wired? Im still really happy with my purchase. Granted Im not a audiophile but the wired Novas provide great imaging and have a massive sound stage. I understand 3D audio can be polarizing but playing the Division 2 w/ Atmos Headphones on the Nova's I can hear bullets flying past and over my head. Forbidden West has some amazing weather effects and I can clearly hear thunder above me. Turning off Atmos headphones (XsX) and using BF2042's in game 3D audio is also really impressive. In BF2024 the sound stage is almost too chaotic but I have a clear sense what's happening around me and where. Would like to hear if anyone else has impressions? Perhaps Im the only owner around here?


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## x7007

Which media player can we use with Atmos headphones or DTS sound unbound DTS Headphones :X with Atmos or DTS-MA movies? I tried using Potplayer but I don't know if we need some kind of AVR to get the signal or anything else.  I have the SXFI AMP, is it possible to do everything on the computer? or we need extra devices. Using HD800's


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## MarkDraconian

x7007 said:


> Which media player can we use with Atmos headphones or DTS sound unbound DTS Headphones :X with Atmos or DTS-MA movies? I tried using Potplayer but I don't know if we need some kind of AVR to get the signal or anything else.  I have the SXFI AMP, is it possible to do everything on the computer? or we need extra devices. Using HD800's


At least with analog 3.5mm plugged straight into my rear green motherboard jack, Dolby Access and DTS Sound Unbound works just fine with surround movies/series, and also works fine with VLC, Potplayer, MPC-BE. 
With PotPlayer in the audio settings you should use the channel layout as "Same as input" or something like this, i can't remember exactly now since i'm not using PotPlayer for years now. But i know that in this way PotPlayer will send surround content to Spatial audio from Windows and it will render that in the headphones.

For Dolby Digital Plus + Atmos tracks i always use new W11 media player (or Movies & TV app) since this is the 100% way to Atmos for headphones or DTS Sound Unbound decode Atmos track within DD+ files properly, giving me height channels and full 3D audio. Not sure if other media players can do this.

If you add an external amp/DAC to this i don't know how it would behave, sorry i can't help you with that, i never tested this before.


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## x7007

MarkDraconian said:


> At least with analog 3.5mm plugged straight into my rear green motherboard jack, Dolby Access and DTS Sound Unbound works just fine with surround movies/series, and also works fine with VLC, Potplayer, MPC-BE.
> With PotPlayer in the audio settings you should use the channel layout as "Same as input" or something like this, i can't remember exactly now since i'm not using PotPlayer for years now. But i know that in this way PotPlayer will send surround content to Spatial audio from Windows and it will render that in the headphones.
> 
> For Dolby Digital Plus + Atmos tracks i always use new W11 media player (or Movies & TV app) since this is the 100% way to Atmos for headphones or DTS Sound Unbound decode Atmos track within DD+ files properly, giving me height channels and full 3D audio. Not sure if other media players can do this.
> ...


yes same as input what is needed to be set is what I use.  the issue like you explained when using the media player or movies and TV is that I can't choose the Dolby atmos track, it always uses the compabiltiy 5.1 track and when trying to switch to the 8 channel atmos it doesn't do anything, can't remember when exactly it worked last time, maybe only on my OLED C6 Hdmi  TV. to pass the signal with nvidia card.


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## Mad Lust Envy

If any of you going to CanJam this weekend, say hi at the Audeze Booth!


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## RugbyPlayer

So question, is there any major difference between the mobius using USB, vs a penrose? I have a PC, series X, and PS5 and wouldnt really want to rebuy headphones for each console when i already have the mobius.

Also, does the PS5/Xbox series X support surround/3d audio through their respective 3d audio ps5 and dolby atmos on xbox through wireless connection with the penrose?

If the mobius is usable with just USB and there isnt any major disadvantage than a wire, id probably just stick to that to avoid buying $600 worth of headphones. Can anyone recommend a USB cable? IDK if i need to look for anything in particular but i do need length, probably 15-20 feet


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## Evshrug (Sep 16, 2022)

RugbyPlayer said:


> So question, is there any major difference between the mobius using USB, vs a penrose? I have a PC, series X, and PS5 and wouldnt really want to rebuy headphones for each console when i already have the mobius.
> 
> Also, does the PS5/Xbox series X support surround/3d audio through their respective 3d audio ps5 and dolby atmos on xbox through wireless connection with the penrose?
> 
> If the mobius is usable with just USB and there isnt any major disadvantage than a wire, id probably just stick to that to avoid buying $600 worth of headphones. Can anyone recommend a USB cable? IDK if i need to look for anything in particular but i do need length, probably 15-20 feet


Yes, good question, there is a difference.

The only headphone out of the three (yes three) versions you listed that will work with your Xbox Series console is the Penrose X, because Microsoft only allows USB headsets to work with their Xbox console if the manufacturer pays a license fee (I have old info, but I was shocked when I heard how expensive the royalty licensing fee was). The perk/upside of that official license is it works with Xbox’s party chat function to allow a dial on the headset to adjust chat and game volume balance. Audeze also makes a PlayStation specific version of the Penrose… but Sony does allow UAC1 usb devices (the most compatible and common usb audio devices) to work with stereo output (or Tempest 3D surround output for the PS5), so… for your situation, I would recommend the Penrose X.

Furthermore, the Mobius has head tracking and an internal DSP for creating surround and “out-of-your-head stereo,” which the two Penrose models do not (but you can use the PS5 and Xbox Series’ built-in surround DSPs), however the Mobius would have to connect wired with USB to the PS5 to work (and wouldn’t work with Xbox) while the Penrose is specifically designed to use a USB dongle to wirelessly transmit. You already know that all three headphones can connect to PCs (and smartphones) with Bluetooth… but the Penrose’s additional option with the 2.4 GHz wireless dongle (not Bluetooth!) actually has more bandwidth, lower latency, and the sound quality will be much better than Bluetooth if you use the microphone! Also, most USB cables are too short and too stiff to use in a living room with a TV to couch situation… wireless proves it’s worth there!

Of course, using the Mobius on PC with USB allows for the “full fat experience,” where the Mobius will process 7.1 virtual surround for headphones AND full 3D head tracking, which is pretty great (and the reason why I still own my Mobius). I do experience the headtracking to substantially improve the sensation of surround, even when I’m sitting and only making minimal movements. It’s sold out… not sure if that’s short term or discontinued, but that makes my Mobius a bit more precious (unless a Mobius 2 with a new SoC is on the way, eeeeey?). However, the Penrose (X) really is the way to go for gaming consoles (unless you’re me, with a Mobius in the PC room and an EPOS PC38X wired to a USB DAC and a game console in the TV room 😁).


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## Helvetica bold

Evshrug said:


> Yes, good question, there is a difference.
> 
> The only headphone out of the three (yes three) versions you listed that will work with your Xbox Series console is the Penrose X, because Microsoft only allows USB headsets to work with their Xbox console if the manufacturer pays a license fee (I have old info, but I was shocked when I heard how expensive the royalty licensing fee was). The perk/upside of that official license is it works with Xbox’s party chat function to allow a dial on the headset to adjust chat and game volume balance. Audeze also makes a PlayStation specific version of the Penrose… but Sony does allow UAC1 usb devices (the most compatible and common usb audio devices) to work with stereo output (or Tempest 3D surround output for the PS5), so… for your situation, I would recommend the Penrose X.
> 
> ...


What DAC are you using with the EPOS PC38X? It’s connected to a XsX or PS5?


----------



## p1zzap1e

Its annoying that xsx don´t have a optical out or support sound through usb without licencing. I use a soundblaster g6 that i have to plug in to my tv with optical then run the power through xsx usb, and beacuse of that the mic on my headphones (fostex t50rp with v-moda boom) does not work. So i have to switch between two pairs of headphones if i want to use party chat. One pair that can be run through the controller, and my fostex that i only use on pc or playing single player games on xsx beacuse they are so power hungry.


----------



## Evshrug (Oct 7, 2022)

Helvetica bold said:


> What DAC are you using with the EPOS PC38X? It’s connected to a XsX or PS5?


Right now, I’m still using a Creative Labs BlasterX G5. EPOS makes their own equivalent DAC/amp that costs less, but I’ve been happy enough with the G5 for several years. The power is fine, the sound quality is good but I’ve heard better from newer, smaller products, and the mic input is pretty good (it’s what I use when I stream on twitch.tv @Evshrug). The G5 works seamlessly with the PS5 and PS4, especially benefitting from the PS5’s built-in surround DSP, so it’s just plug and play (I can also press the PlayStation button on the controller to switch outputs back to my TV).

I've confirmed with the manufacturer that the Qudelix 5k does work with TRRS headsets _if the 5k is hard wired with USB to the source,_ not bluetooth mode. I don't know firsthand if this works with the Playstations, but I think it would sound really good if it worked and I would like to try it someday (like... when I have income again).

Insert grumbles about Microsoft Xbox’s closed system here. The PC38X would play as well as anything else off the Xbox controller’s headphone Jack… but the controller audio quality would be the limiting factor, controllers just don’t output good sound (it’s just “okay”).

In general, the PC38X and PC37X are easy to drive, so there are many good DAC/amp options, especially for PC & PlayStation. I would like to try more DAC/amps, but currently I’m job hunting 😅


----------



## Playstation

Speaking about the Epos. I was seriously considering the purchase until I read that the pads are shallow. Not sure if the pads can be modded. Super curious how they sound though. 

Comfort means the most to me now. In hindsight, when comparing the comfort of the X2HR's with third party pads. Senns 5xx - 6xx only had decent comfort in comparison.

Also speaking about these second generation headsets. Some of them fit tighter than their predecessors. Two hands on examples would be the Rig 500 pro, now owned by a different company, also the Astro A10's. The Rigs have shallow pads now, and, the A10's used to be clunky, larger headroom, and the cups WERE actually over the ear. 

Anyways. Instead of having a standalone mic and headphones, I was looking at closed back headset options. 

Other headsets I've tried and returned.

Arctic Nova Pro
Hyper X Cloud Orbits

Might just keep using my standalone mic, and find uber comfortable closed back headphones when it calls for them. Before anyone mentions Beyer. No comment on those plastic pieces that hold the metal together. Beyer does have a newer, streamlined fasteners. 






With the headband fasteners being enclosed, I wonder if that inturn added more durability.


----------



## p1zzap1e

Playstation said:


> Speaking about the Epos. I was seriously considering the purchase until I read that the pads are shallow. Not sure if the pads can be modded. Super curious how they sound though.
> 
> Comfort means the most to me now. In hindsight, when comparing the comfort of the X2HR's with third party pads. Senns 5xx - 6xx only had decent comfort in comparison.
> 
> ...



Looked at the VZR model one? supposed to be good, if i had the funds i would love to give it a try. 

For pc-gaming i have a pair of fostex t50rp modded and paired with a v moda boom mic. Wonderful sound but can't be used on my xbox series x tough if i want to use party chat as the controller don't have the power to run it. If i use my dac/amp on my xbox i get the power to drive them, but can´t chat in a party.


----------



## Evshrug (Oct 7, 2022)

Playstation said:


> Speaking about the Epos. I was seriously considering the purchase until I read that the pads are shallow. Not sure if the pads can be modded. Super curious how they sound though.
> 
> Comfort means the most to me now. In hindsight, when comparing the comfort of the X2HR's with third party pads. Senns 5xx - 6xx only had decent comfort in comparison.
> 
> ...


A couple points to consider:
A closed back headphone is a whole different discussion than brands and pads... Closed headphones offer more environmental versatility, but when you get used to comparing closed headphones side by side with open headphones, you realize that you really have to need that closed seal off from the environment to justify the loss in sound quality. If you're looking at closed headphones, I would recommend adding the AKG K371 to your shortlist... it's getting a lot of reviews and frequent recommendations (but I haven't heard it yet, so I am not giving it thumbs up or down).

Second, comfort. Comfort is important to most audiophiles, and IMO especially gamers because we tend to lose track of time and have longer listening/playing sessions (no offense to music listeners who lose track of two or three hours). That said, pad depth has an inverse correlation with sound quality. The deeper your pads, the more diffuse and softened the sound is in a headphone (arguably true with loudspeakers too, the cheap seats in concerts suck). More front air volume (more air between the front of the driver & your eardrum) = more resistance/acoustic impedance. In my experience, Beyer and AKG pads are about the same depth as Sennheisers. I assume you tried the HD 58X and HD 6XX? The HD 500* series that are still in production (like the HD 560S, HD 599) share an earcup/enclosure design that is mostly the same as the PC38X/PC37X if you ignore the boom mic and volume dial. The Audeze LCD series have absolutely MASSIVE pads... but even they, I think, have a depth within a few millimeters of the HD 600's pad depth. I also had my perspective on thick pads changed by the HD 800: it has really thin pads, but the earcup is deep so my ears don't touch at all, and the caliper pressure is distributed evenly over a very wide area, so it doesn't need to be squishy (people with really pronounced cheekbones may want more squishy and easily compressed pads).

As long as your ear doesn't touch the driver (and I prefer no part of the pad touching my ear either, though obviously that's what on-ear designs like Koss and Grado's use, but less obviously the bowl-like pads on Audio Technica AD900 also does), you would ideally want the driver to be as close to your eardrum and surface of your ear as possible.

I think it's interesting that the HD 500 series* actually has a smaller driver, but a larger earpad/earcup opening than the HD 600 series. Some people find the HD 600 series more comfortable if they have wider/more extended ear shapes anyways, because there is a boxed-off flat area at the back of the HD 500 series cups to try and reflect some sound behind the ear towards the side of your head (part of that angled earcup design). My ears don't touch this (and never applies pressure to my ears) unless I wear the earcups positioned _forward_ on my head towards my face, BUT ears are different and if you know this happens with you on an HD 560S, then it would probably also happen with the PC 38X.

*Excluding the HD 58X Jubilee, because it uses the HD 600 series enclosure.

~~~~~~~~~
Anyway, hopefully some of this info is helpful to you. I'm curious what you'll eventually go for... but don't worry, it's a headphone, not a spouse 




p1zzap1e said:


> Looked at the VZR model one? supposed to be good, if i had the funds i would love to give it a try.
> 
> For pc-gaming i have a pair of fostex t50rp modded and paired with a v moda boom mic. Wonderful sound but can't be used on my xbox series x tough if i want to use party chat as the controller don't have the power to run it. If i use my dac/amp on my xbox i get the power to drive them, but can´t chat in a party.


Who makes the VZR? Sounds like someone from Skullcandy's marketing department came up with the name (which is not a slight!).
I also have a Fostex T50RP (a special edition made for Drop, the TH-X0 mk II,  that included mod experimentation materials), and you're absolutely right... that thing is a power hungry beast!! It's my poster child example for why the sensitivity matters so much more on a spec sheet than impedance, when you're trying to calculate amping requirements. It requires almost another quarter turn on my big desktop amp to match the volume of my HD 800, haha! The T50RP sounds pretty great though, I personally enjoy my sample TH-X0 mk II more than my HD 650 on most occasions.


----------



## p1zzap1e (Oct 9, 2022)

Evshrug said:


> Who makes the VZR? Sounds like someone from Skullcandy's marketing department came up with the name (which is not a slight!).
> I also have a Fostex T50RP (a special edition made for Drop, the TH-X0 mk II,  that included mod experimentation materials), and you're absolutely right... that thing is a power hungry beast!! It's my poster child example for why the sensitivity matters so much more on a spec sheet than impedance, when you're trying to calculate amping requirements. It requires almost another quarter turn on my big desktop amp to match the volume of my HD 800, haha! The T50RP sounds pretty great though, I personally enjoy my sample TH-X0 mk II more than my HD 650 on most occasions.


Yeah vzr doesn’t exactly sound hifi, but look them up. Made by people that were responsible for developing audio at apple. The price is kind of steep tough for a not so well known brand. 

I turned my fostex in to mayflower 1, and added lambskin pads from zmf. Great sound, wonderful comfort.


----------



## Evshrug

p1zzap1e said:


> Yeah vzr doesn’t exactly sound hifi, but look them up. Made by people that were responsible for developing audio at apple. The price is kind of steep tough for a not so well known brand.
> 
> I turned my fostex in to mayflower 1, and added lambskin pads from zmf. Great sound, wonderful comfort.


Well Foster (parent of Fostex) was making the transducers for Apple last time I checked, not sure if that changed, and I don't know who their chief of acoustic design is. I imagine lots of people have come and gone at Apple's audio department, so the chief designer would be most interesting to me. I think the main push for the Airpod Pro and Max's sound quality doesn't come from the transducer or shell design (no offense, I'm sure someone worked really hard and long on those! And I'm hoping I find the APP2's shell more comfortable, so your efforts are appreciated!), but a focus on DSP and filter software programming. We're still not able to take advantage of Apple's lossless library with Apple's headphone products yet, but I definitely still appreciate the lossless library being there and at such a great price!!! (I do wish WiFi and 5G streaming quality were separated in apple's settings menu... I get 5G in a lot of places where I can't appreciate lossless quality and would rather have the battery savings of AAC for my phone, but at home I want that great quality over wifi!!).


----------



## Helvetica bold (Oct 9, 2022)

Evshrug said:


> Right now, I’m still using a Creative Labs BlasterX G5. EPOS makes their own equivalent DAC/amp that costs less, but I’ve been happy enough with the G5 for several years. The power is fine, the sound quality is good but I’ve heard better from newer, smaller products, and the mic input is pretty good (it’s what I use when I stream on twitch.tv @Evshrug). The G5 works seamlessly with the PS5 and PS4, especially benefitting from the PS5’s built-in surround DSP, so it’s just plug and play (I can also press the PlayStation button on the controller to switch outputs back to my TV).
> 
> I've confirmed with the manufacturer that the Qudelix 5k does work with TRRS headsets _if the 5k is hard wired with USB to the source,_ not bluetooth mode. I don't know firsthand if this works with the Playstations, but I think it would sound really good if it worked and I would like to try it someday (like... when I have income again).
> 
> ...


I own the Arctis Nova Pro wired and Im very happy with my purchase. The Nova's work great with both current gen systems and can be connected at the same time. However I want to try the PC38X with the Gamedac 2.  I think that might be a great Combo since it works w/ PS5 & XsX. Im hoping Penrose X will go on sale around
holidays for my wireless solution. Drop any hints if that's a possibility even for B Stock like last year.  I have a real headphone itch now, I guess its fall.


----------



## Evshrug

Holiday Hints would have to come from an Audeze employee like @Mad Lust Envy (I have no idea!), but it does seem like christmas season is being pushed well before Halloween this year XD. So, you never know! Having a fall itch for new headphones is probably better than getting the flu every year: more expensive, but definitely more enjoyable, haha!!!


----------



## bombadilio

Anyone ever figure a good sound profile for the AKG 65 Anniversary for gaming? I don't really want to upgrade but feeling an itch but I'm not sure how much better sound would be in fps gaming compared to what I use. 

I love the AKG as they are so lightweight you never feel tired


----------



## High Fidelity (Oct 19, 2022)

Hi. I have a 2015 Mixamp Pro, which is not really compatible with PS5 and XSX. I also have a Schiit Magni 2U.

I have the Mixamp Pro 2015 and Magni 2U connected to my PS5 via USB. Am I getting Dolby Digital like I did on PS4?

What I’m wondering is if the 2015 Mixamp Pro I own is pointless and I should get the Schiit Fulla or Hel 2E and go sans Mixamp.


----------



## Evshrug

High Fidelity said:


> Hi. I have a 2015 Mixamp Pro, which is not really compatible with PS5 and XSX. I also have a Schiit Magni 2U.
> 
> I have the Mixamp Pro 2015 and Magni 2U connected to my PS5 via USB. Am I getting Dolby Digital like I did on PS4?
> 
> What I’m wondering is if the 2015 Mixamp Pro I own is pointless and I should get the Schiit Fulla or Hel 2E and go sans Mixamp.


The PS5 does not send Dolby Digital Live over USB, but it does send it's own pre-mixed headphone spatial stereo (which is like a more modern version of dolby headphone, supporting height when the games do too). The Xbox doesn't send audio out through USB at all, unless you buy a specifically licensed Xbox accessory. Personally, since the PS5 supports its own game/chat volume balance and spatial audio, I'm just using a Creative BlasterX G5, but you can use many USB "sound cards" with a headphone output and mic input. Some day I hope to try the Qudelix 5k, which does support "headset" plugs when you're connected through USB (but I don't know yet if it has the UAC1 standard that is more compatible and would work with the PS5).

Important to note: the Fulla 2 does work over USB, but the Fulla 3 is less compatible and would *not work* with the PS5. I don't know if any models since the Fulla 3 are compatible enough.

I believe the easiest way to continue feeding the Mixamp with a stream of the Dolby Digital Live it needs to process spatial headphone surround is to use the optical OUTPUT on the back of most modern flatscreen TV's, failing that you could buy a fairly inexpensive HDMI to Optical audio extractor device.



bombadilio said:


> Anyone ever figure a good sound profile for the AKG 65 Anniversary for gaming? I don't really want to upgrade but feeling an itch but I'm not sure how much better sound would be in fps gaming compared to what I use.
> 
> I love the AKG as they are so lightweight you never feel tired


I think the acoustic sound profile for the AKG Annies is already pretty close to the recent Harmon target curve (AKG is a harmon company, after all), though the open back nature of the design means the sub bass rolls off a bit. That's not necessarily a bad thing: if they physically designed it to have that sub bass extension, it would muddy everything else. So, applying an EQ profile to the AKG wouldn't achieve much, unless you just had a taste for more or less emphasis on the balance of frequencies. If you wanted to experience more separation and perceived detail, you would need a different headphone with higher performance. I think the AKG's are an amazing value for the price, but the HD 800 series is tuned similar at TOTL performance, Stax doesn't quite offer bass warmth but their lighter-than-air transducers present clarity and separation with an effortless quality, a couple planars offer less treble distortion and the ones with larger transducers have more bass displacement (though these are often heavier than dynamic drivers, and sometimes have softer bass impact).

Maybe it's because I'm financially struggling right now, but I've been enjoying what mid-fi Dynamic headphones have to offer, lately. They really are great, easy to live with, and high value. If I didn't already have my PC38X or HD 560S, I would probably be using an AKG.


----------



## Chastity (Oct 20, 2022)

Got a new laptop, an Asus G15 AMD Advantage from the current Best Buy sale, and in regards to audio, this is the first time that the onboard audio's analog out doesn't sound like crap.  And I've been reviewing sound cards and laptop audio for a very long time.  Been out of the loop fir a couple of years with a dead laptop, but this beeauty really impressed me.  Tho one caveat:  you need to disable enhancements on the Headphones output device, because otherwise it does some attenuation to the levels and you lose quite a few decibels.  Essentially, when you do this, the audio has no discerning flaws, no bass roll-off, and it seems to do some impedence detecting, as my M1070 was level matching my DT-1990, which are significantly heavier in ohm.

It also comes with a license for Dolby Access, which I thought was a nice touch.  The laptop speakers are also not terrible, but could be better.   Both sounded best when using the Dolby Dynamic mode where it it auto-chooses how to enhance the audio.

Oh, and it's a killer gaming rig.    $1099 currently for a 5980HX / 6800M / QHD 165Hz setup.


----------



## FlyingFungus

I still use the Ultrasone HFI-780 for gaming. I only play single player games. I was using the Denon D2000 for the longest time. They were my upgrade from the Ultrasone's but I need to fix the Denon's. Going back to the Ultrasone's though, they are a fun headphone. 

There's a lot of digging through this thread that I have to do I guess, but what would be a good replacement for the Ultrasone's now? Past few months I've started to get back into the audio and gaming world. Below $500 CDN. Thought about the Penrose but I prefer wired since I'm purely single player and movies/tv. Not opposed to wireless though.


----------



## Playstation

I bought the epos, and I like them. However, they are somewhat sibilant/ fatiguing to me. Despite being used to cans like hd598, x2hr, dt 770 pros.

Correct me if I'm wrong. It's too bad that the software suite cannot set a preset EQ setting into the headset itself. You have to have the headset connected to the device the software is installed on. 
I was hoping you could store the sound settings, from the presets or the vss option, into the headset itself. Then, you could use the headset on a console, with the desired effect. 

Luckily I have a analog eq I'm going to try. Which, I would then lose the mic functionality. 

The mic has a noise gate feature built-in by default. It doesn't matter what device you're on. 

Oh, and, they are plenty comfortable.


----------



## Radio81

Playstation said:


> I bought the epos, and I like them. However, they are somewhat sibilant/ fatiguing to me. Despite being used to cans like hd598, x2hr, dt 770 pros.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong. It's too bad that the software suite cannot set a preset EQ setting into the headset itself. You have to have the headset connected to the device the software is installed on.
> I was hoping you could store the sound settings, from the presets or the vss option, into the headset itself. Then, you could use the headset on a console, with the desired effect.
> ...




Most wireless headsets for PC aren't going to store settings on the headset itself.  It's why I generally avoid wireless PC headsets for PS5 use, including Sony's Inzone headsets.  Unless it's specifically branded for PlayStation I tend to dismiss it.  Technically the PC headsets will work on PS5, but without a lot of functionality like mic gain, sidetone, EQ, and other settings that are only saved to PC software.


----------



## Blotto80

FlyingFungus said:


> I still use the Ultrasone HFI-780 for gaming. I only play single player games. I was using the Denon D2000 for the longest time. They were my upgrade from the Ultrasone's but I need to fix the Denon's. Going back to the Ultrasone's though, they are a fun headphone.
> 
> There's a lot of digging through this thread that I have to do I guess, but what would be a good replacement for the Ultrasone's now? Past few months I've started to get back into the audio and gaming world. Below $500 CDN. Thought about the Penrose but I prefer wired since I'm purely single player and movies/tv. Not opposed to wireless though.


I've been gaming on the JM Modded Hifiman R7DX and I've got to say they are pretty phenomenal for gaming. Great soundstage, nice punch, decently crisp highs. They remind me quite a bit of my old D2000's. They're also really easy to drive and perform well right out of the PS5 controller.


----------



## FlyingFungus

Blotto80 said:


> I've been gaming on the JM Modded Hifiman R7DX and I've got to say they are pretty phenomenal for gaming. Great soundstage, nice punch, decently crisp highs. They remind me quite a bit of my old D2000's. They're also really easy to drive and perform well right out of the PS5 controller.


I will check it out, thanks! I've owned a Hifiman before, and I regret selling it.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Hi! Im looking at the H6PRO open since I already have the closed Nova Wired Pros. Now is it worth getting the bundle with the GSX 300 for $20. I dont have a PC just a Mac, XsX and a PS5. Can I use the EPOS software on my Mac similar to the SteelSeries Engine–Im thinking not. Its either the H6PRO or the Penrose (B Stock) if I can grab it on sale this week, maybe both if Im feeling slutty.


----------



## Helvetica bold

@Mad Lust Envy any hints to when the Penrose B Stock will go on sale.  The Audeze sales thread hinted this week for the PS5 model but nothing so far. I missed the sale last year, I don't want that to happen again.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

If it's not on the sale page, we have no info to provide on sales outside of these items. The current sales includes all items we may put up at this time.


----------



## Leberkassemmel (Nov 15, 2022)

Hey guys, i have a question about the Creative G6.

I know that the G6 can output its VSS over optical to another DAC. However I´m not planing on using creatives VSS, i plan to use HeSuvi with it. So i wanted to know if the device is still recognized as 7.1 device in windows if i put it into direct mode, or if its only recognized as stereo device? If its only recognized as stereo, HeSuvi wouldnt work with it.

Also: Does the optical output even work if its in direct mode?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Leberkassemmel said:


> Hey guys, i have a question about the Creative G6.
> 
> I know that the G6 can output its VSS over optical to another DAC. However I´m not planing on using creatives VSS, i plan to use HeSuvi with it. So i wanted to know if the device is still recognized as 7.1 device in windows if i put it into direct mode, or if its only recognized as stereo device? If its only recognized as stereo, HeSuvi wouldnt work with it.
> 
> Also: Does the optical output even work if its in direct mode?


Seems like you could just remove the G6 and connect the motherboard's optical directly to the DAC.


----------



## Leberkassemmel

PurpleAngel said:


> Seems like you could just remove the G6 and connect the motherboard's optical directly to the DAC.


Sadly its not that simple. For Hesuvi to work, you need to be able to configure the device in the windows audio settings as 7.1 device. To get it to work with the optical out of the pc requires virtual audio devices which have to be routed there, which will add quite a bit of latency or/and requires additional software running on the pc.

Using a creative card as 7.1-optical converter for hesuvi is the cheapest method i found until now, which wont add latency. As far as i know the G6 will also run in standalone operation, without having to run software in the background.

Im just curious if it works the same way in direct mode, or if the dsp is needed.


----------



## Helvetica bold

While I wait for the Penrose to go on sale any recommendation on what to drive EPOS H6Pro? I know it doesn't take much to drive them but I  would like something cost effective for XsX and PS5. I was just going to use my Gamedac 2 but if anyone owns the H6Pro please let me know your experience.


----------



## Radio81

Helvetica bold said:


> While I wait for the Penrose to go on sale any recommendation on what to drive EPOS H6Pro? I know it doesn't take much to drive them but I  would like something cost effective for XsX and PS5. I was just going to use my Gamedac 2 but if anyone owns the H6Pro please let me know your experience.



Did you purchase the H6 Pro already?  If not, I would skip the open version and go with PC38X.  The H6Pro Open is only semi-open, and it ends up sounded really congested.  I tried to like them but couldn't get used to them.  They were really comfy, though.

The GameDac 2 would be plenty for them.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Radio81 said:


> Did you purchase the H6 Pro already?  If not, I would skip the open version and go with PC38X.  The H6Pro Open is only semi-open, and it ends up sounded really congested.  I tried to like them but couldn't get used to them.  They were really comfy, though.
> 
> The GameDac 2 would be plenty for them.


Yes I purchased the open H6Pro. My Nova Pro Wired are closed so I wanted an open back. Several reviews I watched regarding the H6 open praised its natural expansive sound signature I guess I’ll find out soon. Also I’m hoping to pick up the Penrose if it goes on sale, another closed back.


----------



## Rozzko

hello I ask for help. 
I have ps5 and creative g6. I want the G6 to be used only as an amplifier, without additional virtual processing. virtual sound I want to leave from ps5 - sony 3D audio. the question is, what settings should I select on the ps5 for this? And what are the settings on the g6 itself? so that the ps5 itself creates 3D sound, and not creative g6.


----------



## PurpleAngel

So you just want the 2-channel headphone surround sound, to just pass thru the G6.
So set the G6 to 2-channel stereo audio.


----------



## p1zzap1e

Sooooooo anyone have experience with the Astro mixamp, and specifically on a Xbox series x? It’s supposed to be supported. I wonder if it’s powerful enough to drive a pair of fostex t50rp? I have a g6, but it’s not officially supported so the mic doesn’t work.


----------



## JdeFalconr

FYI Redscape is doing an end-of-the-year sale right now and is 50% off. Software-only license is $20 and software plus head tracker is $50.
https://www.redscapeaudio.com/


----------



## Azurik

has anyone experienced buzzing/ hissing/ white noise coming from headphones plugged directly into the dualsense controller? I had no issues with over ears like 560s, DT900, Cloud Alpha etc, but now started using ism's a bit more. Currently I have the QKZ x HBB and as soon as a sound is produced, I get said noises alongside the sound. When there is silence, it doesn't happen. Best way to try is to simply navigate the ps5 home screen. It happens on any volume, controller mic on/off, usb or bluetooth connection. If it was one controller, I would put it down to it being faulty, but I have 2 and both have the issue. I assume it might have to do with the low impedance ism's have, but I am not sure. I was planning to get the raptgo hook x (not primarily to be used with the controller as that would be pointless and a waste), but not sure if they would also cause issues. Maybe someone has the hook x and ps5 and would be kind enough to try it? I will post in the relevant item thread too just in case


----------



## Daniel Ramos 560

I’m sure someone has already answered this. But I have the ps5 and the Audeze lcd-gx. I currently am using the sound blaster g6. But I’m. It sure I am using the headphones to its fullest potential. I am also not so technically sound so please bear with me.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Daniel Ramos 560 said:


> I’m sure someone has already answered this. But I have the ps5 and the Audeze lcd-gx. I currently am using the sound blaster g6. But I’m. It sure I am using the headphones to its fullest potential. I am also not so technically sound so please bear with me.


Not really clear what the question is?


----------



## Chastity

PurpleAngel said:


> Not really clear what the question is?


I think he is implying that pairing the G6 with LCD-GX is working good.  I wouldn't imply that.


----------



## WhiteHartMart

Chastity said:


> I think he is implying that pairing the G6 with LCD-GX is working good.  I wouldn't imply that.


I think they are asking how they could get the best out of the GX appreciating that the G6 may not be the solution?

Guessing the answer to that question will depend on the usage (PC/PS5) they have?


----------



## Daniel Ramos 560

PurpleAngel said:


> Not really clear what the question is?


Yes you’re right I definitely didn’t ask a valid question. My fault. I was wondering if my 


PurpleAngel said:


> Not really clear what the question is?





WhiteHartMart said:


> I think they are asking how they could get the best out of the GX appreciating that the G6 may not be the solution?
> 
> Guessing the answer to that question will depend on the usage (PC/PS5) they have


----------



## Daniel Ramos 560

My apologies for my not being clear. I do have a pc that I used to game on that barley use anymore. I use my ps5 more than anything. I’m wondering if I should get a different dac/amp for the GX. Because I don’t think I’m using the headphone to its full potential. And I understand that I may not get that while using it only for ps5.  But while I am, is the sound blaster the way to go or should I get something else? I appreciate you guys and your time. Thank you.


----------



## PurpleAngel

Daniel Ramos 560 said:


> My apologies for my not being clear. I do have a pc that I used to game on that barley use anymore. I use my ps5 more than anything. I’m wondering if I should get a different dac/amp for the GX. Because I don’t think I’m using the headphone to its full potential. And I understand that I may not get that while using it only for ps5.  But while I am, is the sound blaster the way to go or should I get something else? I appreciate you guys and your time. Thank you.


The Audeze lcd-GX is 20-Ohms, so the G6 has way more headphone amplifier power than needed by the Audeze lcd-GX.
For gaming on the PS5, the G6 would seem like more than enough.
Does the G6 provide any headphone surround sound function for your gaming?
Do you use the mic function?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Daniel Ramos 560 said:


> My apologies for my not being clear. I do have a pc that I used to game on that barley use anymore. I use my ps5 more than anything. I’m wondering if I should get a different dac/amp for the GX. Because I don’t think I’m using the headphone to its full potential. And I understand that I may not get that while using it only for ps5.  But while I am, is the sound blaster the way to go or should I get something else? I appreciate you guys and your time. Thank you.


The Audeze lcd-GX is 20-Ohms, so the G6 has way more headphone amplifier power than needed by the Audeze lcd-GX.


----------



## Aeonfire (Nov 25, 2022)

I've been gaming with Phillips X2HRs for a few years now, and before that I had some AKG K702 65th Anniversaries. All great stuff, but I no longer play competitive games and am looking for something more "fun", I suppose. I've been playing a lot of space games like Elite Dangerous, and the sound design in that game is great, but the X2HRs aren't as deep as I think I might enjoy. Something really impactful is what I'm looking for. Like chest punch for subwoofers, but on my ears.

Any suggestions? I suppose my budget is around $500, but I can stretch up to $1000 for anything that's a big step up.

I'm driving them with a Schitt Modius/Asgard stack and have to use the high gain switch to get a decent volume level out of them, too, which I thought was odd because my Magni/Modi stack seemed plenty loud.


----------



## Chastity (Nov 25, 2022)

You can come join us in the Monoprice M1570 Lounge  https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sho...-current-state-no-old-pictures-please.529140/  <3 the M1570, and easily driven.

You can also consider the Hifiman HE6se V2 on Adorama for $449 https://www.adorama.com/hmhe6sev2.html?&emailprice=t and there's a 10% off Black Friday code.  The Asgard  3 should be able to drive them well, but they do love voltage.


----------



## Helvetica bold

For competitive multiplayer games I know the open back is the gold standard however for single player story driven games like God Of War or the upcoming The Callisto Protocol, are closed recommender or it’s just personal preference? In December I’ll be juggling those 2 games PLUS my first play through of the Witcher 3 once the next gen patch drops. For a horror game like Callisto open might be a good choice for the wider sound stage?


----------



## PurpleAngel

Helvetica bold said:


> For competitive multiplayer games I know the open back is the gold standard however for single player story driven games like God Of War or the upcoming The Callisto Protocol, are closed recommender or it’s just personal preference? In December I’ll be juggling those 2 games PLUS my first play through of the Witcher 3 once the next gen patch drops. For a horror game like Callisto open might be a good choice for the wider sound stage?


I use open headphones for as much as possible, unless I need to block noise or keep to others from hearing what is coming out of my headphones.


----------



## oqvist

PurpleAngel said:


> The Audeze lcd-GX is 20-Ohms, so the G6 has way more headphone amplifier power than needed by the Audeze lcd-GX.


Impedance dont say much about how easy to drive it is more about the efficiency and how much mass is being moved.
No idea how efficient the gx is. Just try it on everything you can get your hands on. My old lcd 2 did love power. Wasnt picky at all just wanted power lol. Loved the speaker taps on a cheap receiver I found. Not the safest approach if you have kids around that love to turn volume knobs  It sounds a bit mellow but still pleasant underpowered though but there was a big difference there.


----------



## PurpleAngel

oqvist said:


> Impedance don't say much about how easy to drive it is more about the efficiency and how much mass is being moved.
> No idea how efficient the gx is. Just try it on everything you can get your hands on. My old lcd 2 did love power. Wasn't picky at all just wanted power lol. Loved the speaker taps on a cheap receiver I found. Not the safest approach if you have kids around that love to turn volume knobs  It sounds a bit mellow but still pleasant underpowered though but there was a big difference there.


Yep, Ohms (impedance) is not the only factor for the power demand of a headphone.
But I'm guessing headphone makers want to sell headphones to that person who would spend $1000 for an iPhone.
A person willing to spend a lot of cash for headphones running off a battery powered source, so a headphone that does not need a lot of voltage, but maybe more current.
At least that's how my little mind sees things


----------



## stavros.m

Hey I was looking at purchasing  Creative Sound Blaster GC7 just want to hear anyone’s experience. I am reading a lot of mixed reviews

Thanks


----------



## illram (Dec 1, 2022)

stavros.m said:


> Hey I was looking at purchasing  Creative Sound Blaster GC7 just want to hear anyone’s experience. I am reading a lot of mixed reviews
> 
> Thanks


I have one. SXFi is fantastic, although I have not used it in a little bit so I cannot speak to any firmware issues that may have cropped up. (I think there may have been some recent issues, don't know if they were resolved.).

It allows for use of SXFi on consoles, which is nice. But it does not allow for any line-out of SXFi to a more powerful amp, which is annoying and remains an issue with all SXFi devices as far as I am aware. (Again haven't looked into the ecosystem in a while someone can correct me if I am wrong.)

Unless you need the additional inputs/microphone outputs, or use a console, the SXFi dongle, which is like $60 or something, has the same SXFi capabilities and honestly I hear no difference between the two, even with high quality cans like the HD800S.


----------



## stavros.m

illram said:


> I have one. SXFi is fantastic, although I have not used it in a little bit so I cannot speak to any firmware issues that may have cropped up. (I think there may have been some recent issues, don't know if they were resolved.).
> 
> It allows for use of SXFi on consoles, which is nice. But it does not allow for any line-out of SXFi to a more powerful amp, which is annoying and remains an issue with all SXFi devices as far as I am aware. (Again haven't looked into the ecosystem in a while someone can correct me if I am wrong.)
> 
> Unless you need the additional inputs/microphone outputs, or use a console, the SXFi dongle, which is like $60 or something, has the same SXFi capabilities and honestly I hear no difference between the two, even with high quality cans like the HD800S.


Thank you for the reply just curious what do you use recently for amp/dac and virtual sound 

Thanks for help


----------



## illram

stavros.m said:


> Thank you for the reply just curious what do you use recently for amp/dac and virtual sound
> 
> Thanks for help


Currently use Schiit Modius balanced out to Monoprice THX 887 balanced to either HE6se or HD800S, with Redscape (software on PC) for surround audio.

Redscape is very good with surround audio like SXFi, but the ability to basically use it with whatever I want is what made me switch.


----------



## Evshrug

FlyingFungus said:


> I still use the Ultrasone HFI-780 for gaming. I only play single player games. I was using the Denon D2000 for the longest time. They were my upgrade from the Ultrasone's but I need to fix the Denon's. Going back to the Ultrasone's though, they are a fun headphone.
> 
> There's a lot of digging through this thread that I have to do I guess, but what would be a good replacement for the Ultrasone's now? Past few months I've started to get back into the audio and gaming world. Below $500 CDN. Thought about the Penrose but I prefer wired since I'm purely single player and movies/tv. Not opposed to wireless though.


I just got to hear my first Ultrasone, the Signature X! I definitely think Mad would describe it as “immersive,” I would say it has a “Dj” tuning because it has bass emphasis and a bit of darkness in the upper mids. The S-Logic 3 does give it surprisingly good soundstage for a closed back headphone! The only thing I have against it is I don’t like pleather pads, especially ones designed to be partially circumaural so that the edge of the pads lays your ears against your head. I am also team velour and anti pleather, though I think I tolerate pleather better than Mad does in the florida heat (it’s 32°F / 0°C where I am right now). some people love pads like this (my wife among them), so take it with a grain of salt, but I only would wear these Ultrasone for an hour before giving my ears a physical break.


----------



## Scratchansniff (Dec 4, 2022)

Does anybody know if the Schiit Fulla 3e is compatible with the Ps5? I am looking for a good DAC which is compatible with my PS5 and PC..


----------



## Helvetica bold

New Penrose model incoming? 
Dec 8th…


----------



## Helvetica bold (Dec 6, 2022)

Scratchansniff said:


> Does anybody know if the Schiit Fulla 3e is compatible with the Ps5? I am looking for a good DAC which is compatible with my PS5 and PC..


I really like the Steel Series new GameDAC 2 but depends on how much power you need.
The GameDAC 2 is very flexible and I use my wired Nova’s and H6 Pros on my PS5, Mac and Series X. Further with Sonar you have even more tuning options on PC. Using the DAC w/ open back H6 Pros sound incredible playing MW2 multi and with 24 bit audio from PS5. Yes, arguably there’s not a lot difference between 16 & 24 bit but it’s nice to have a little more detail even if it’s not noticeable.


----------



## Radio81

Helvetica bold said:


> New Penrose model incoming?
> Dec 8th…




Super excited about this.  The headband looks like a huge improvement from the current model.  If the range issues have also been fixed, I'm in for a pair.  Hopefully there will be a preorder discount.  There's already some info out in the wild about it having 3X increased range over the Penrose, and 80+ hour battery.  The mic also sounds promising about filtering out background noise.  For me, the mic is just as important as the sound, since I'm usually in party chat.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scratchansniff said:


> Does anybody know if the Schiit Fulla 3e is compatible with the Ps5? I am looking for a good DAC which is compatible with my PS5 and PC..


It is fully compatible. If you like simplicity, that's as simple as it gets. I'm a fan.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Radio81 said:


> Super excited about this.  The headband looks like a huge improvement from the current model.  If the range issues have also been fixed, I'm in for a pair.  Hopefully there will be a preorder discount.  There's already some info out in the wild about it having 3X increased range over the Penrose, and 80+ hour battery.  The mic also sounds promising about filtering out background noise.  For me, the mic is just as important as the sound, since I'm usually in party chat.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Better pic but are these new Penrose?


----------



## Scratchansniff

Some people think they are releasing tomorrow I think its more likely the announcement of the headset and when pre-orders can start.


----------



## Fegefeuer

Yeah, give it a few months. Also better for these headsets to mature than dissapoint. 
Also I'd be down for a even superior headset if Audeze is up for it. A limited 799/899 release? Why not.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Cats out of the bag or I should say the Maxwell are....
https://audioxpress.com/news/audeze...aming-headphones-support-le-audio-and-lc3plus


----------



## Chastity

So the Maxwell comes in 2 flavors: PS/PC and Xbox/PC, with the latter including a license for Dolby Atmos, and is $50 more.  So I guess you get the PS/PC one if you already have Dolby Atmos for your PC.


----------



## Helvetica bold

The Xbox version also seems to work on PS5.


----------



## Helvetica bold

I dove in! The new (future) owner of the Xbox Maxwell's come Jan. My poor wallet! @Mad Lust Envy hope they live up to the legacy!


----------



## JdeFalconr

$299/349 is a pretty good price point too.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2022)

It's not $349, it's $329. Not sure why the pricing is all over the place. Guess the distribution channels were not updated. $299/$329. $329 gets you all systems, but if you don't have an Xbox, save the $30 and get the PS version.

Sorry we couldn't hit Christmas time. Trust me, we really, REALLY tried.


----------



## Radio81

Does the  Maxwell PS5 version really have game/chat mix?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2022)

Radio81 said:


> Does the  Maxwell PS5 version really have game/chat mix?


We're still ironing kinks for release, but I believe PC toggle will work fine just like the Penrose, but toggling on PS should eliminate some things like having volume output maxed out where it was left last (leaving volume level too low), which isn't intentional. I'll get back to you on this, on here. Have to verify.


----------



## Scratchansniff

Mad Lust Envy said:


> We're still ironing kinks for release, but I believe that's the main reason the PS version has a PC/PS toggle. PC toggle will work fine just like the Penrose, but toggling on PS should eliminate some things like having volume output maxed out where it was left last, which isn't intentional. I'll get back to you on this, on here. Have to verify.


I am wondering If I should be getting the Xbox version for all the platforms.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2022)

Scratchansniff said:


> I am wondering If I should be getting the Xbox version for all the platforms.


If you have an Xbox, yes, if you don't, no. They both do literally everything the same, EXCEPT Xbox version having the required chip, licensing to work on Xbox platforms, as well as the Dolby Atmos license.

Too add:

Though the Xbox version of Maxwell is functional with PlayStation (by moving the slide switch on the side of the dongle to PC mode), the tuning of the PlayStation version of the Maxwell is going to give you better performance with louder volume and less distortion on the PlayStation (this is what the PS toggle on the dongle is on the PS version) 

The respective dongles use different chipsets and different firmware, so just because the Maxwell Xbox dongle currently works with PlayStation, you should not expect this to continue indefinitely. Additionally, there may be some functions that are not supported across platforms. Therefore, we still recommend the PlayStation Maxwell for use with PlayStation and Xbox Maxwell for use with Xbox.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Radio81 said:


> Does the  Maxwell PS5 version really have game/chat mix?


Radio, I should add, it may not be feasible on Playstation, HOWEVER unlike Penrose, Game/Chat balance will be possible on more than just Xbox because we have to end point connections on PC where one is for your game audio, and we have a second output device which you can set to say.... Discord. Game/Chat adjustment will balance between those two signals.

As Maxwell comes closer to release, we'll know more about PS functionality, but at the moment, I would say no. The PS toggle is for a better experience like more volume output, lower distortion, and better tuning specific to PS.... eccentricities.


----------



## Helvetica bold (Dec 8, 2022)

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If you have an Xbox, yes, if you don't, no. They both do literally everything the same, EXCEPT Xbox version having the required chip, licensing to work on Xbox platforms, as well as the Dolby Atmos license.
> 
> Too add:
> 
> ...


Ugh so I purchased the Xbox thinking the sound quality would be equal between XsX and PS5 sounds like that's NOT the case. Will the Xbox version support 44/24bit on PS5? Now Im seriously considering canceling my order. Can I purchase a separate PS5 dongle and if so how much will that cost. I’m reconsidering this purchase in general and my enthusiasm has been deflated by your last post.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Helvetica bold said:


> Ugh so I purchased the Xbox thinking the sound quality would be equal between XsX and PS5 sounds like that's NOT the case. Will the Xbox version support 44/24bit on PS5? Now Im seriously considering canceling my order. Can I purchase a separate PS5 dongle and if so how much will that cost. I’m reconsidering this purchase in general and my enthusiasm has been deflated by your last post.


Well, think about it like this:

Us here know that the PS5 can accept dac/amps, but it has a low volume outpout so you need a pretty beefy amplifier to mitigate the low output.

If you're used to this, then that's what you can expect in PC mode. You'll be pushing the volume harder. I would say that's the bigger difference. It's not going to sound 'worse'. It's just that the PS version is tuned to work for PS where the volume output is higher, meaning the amps aren't pushed as hard, meaning less possible distortion, etc.

If you have an Xbox and PS, I would still suggest the Xbox Maxwell, of course.

If you do not have an Xbox, there's no real reason why you should get that option.


----------



## Scratchansniff

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, think about it like this:
> 
> Us here know that the PS5 can accept dac/amps, but it has a low volume outpout so you need a pretty beefy amplifier to mitigate the low output.
> 
> ...


Low volume output? I didn't know this I've just ordered the Schiit fulla do you think that will help? Should I get the hel instead?.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Scratchansniff said:


> Low volume output? I didn't know this I've just ordered the Schiit fulla do you think that will help? Should I get the hel instead?.


Well it depends on the implementation, I don't remember the Fulla having a volume issue with PS5. But it's also depending on how hard a headphoine is to drive too. I think the Hel would absolutely be a safer bet.


----------



## Scratchansniff

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well it depends on the implementation, I don't remember the Fulla having a volume issue with PS5. But it's also depending on how hard a headphoine is to drive too. I think the Hel would absolutely be a safer bet.


I have a collection of wired headsets I've been unable to use on my xbox. I used them with the Last generation but with the series X, it was a bust no dacs allowed. I finally got a ps5 its why I am investing in one. I have headphones at 250 ohms and some lower, such as the 560s. I will purchase the Hel then.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2022)

If it's headsets, they're usually very efficient. But yeah, you may be maxing out volume on the harder to drive stuff you may have. Your headsets should be fine with Fulla.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

I'll confirm with you later if Maxwell in PC mode is loud enough on PS5. That should work like Xbox Maxwell (which I don't have on hand).


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Well, think about it like this:
> 
> Us here know that the PS5 can accept dac/amps, but it has a low volume outpout so you need a pretty beefy amplifier to mitigate the low output.
> 
> ...


Thank you Actually I thought just the opposite, the Series X has a low volume output, interesting and of course it makes sense. Yes I own both but I do use my PS5 more.
I know this might be too soon to ask but would it be possible to also purchase the PS5 USB receiver as well. Although this costs an arm and a leg already.  or I wouldn't even notice the difference.


----------



## Scratchansniff

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If it's headsets, they're usually very efficient. But yeah, you may be maxing out volume on the harder to drive stuff you may have. Your headsets should be fine with Fulla.


 Sennheiser 560s Is one of them another is Beyerdynamic. But I do have other headsets which have the Mics built in.  Pc38x for example although a Dac isn't really needed for that one.


----------



## Helvetica bold

@Mad Lust Envy Can I connect the Xbox model w/ a USB-C cable to the PS5?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 8, 2022)

Helvetica bold said:


> @Mad Lust Envy Can I connect the Xbox model w/ a USB-C cable to the PS5?


Don't see why not. It's a general usb audio, so it should work. Of course, there's the disclaimer that we never know what Sony may do in the future. It's entirely possible they lock out general usb audio in some way. But for now, it's not the case.


----------



## C-Bass

Maybe a dumb quesiton here but I'm gonna ask it anyways.  Pure PC player.  Never payed for atmos.  If i want to give it a go I should get the xbox version correct?  It looks like atmos is listed as a feature for PC provided you purchase the xbox version.


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

C-Bass said:


> Maybe a dumb quesiton here but I'm gonna ask it anyways.  Pure PC player.  Never payed for atmos.  If i want to give it a go I should get the xbox version correct?  It looks like atmos is listed as a feature for PC provided you purchase the xbox version.


It would be cheaper to get PS version and buy the Dolby License separately from windows store. Unless you're going to play on Xbox, I still would recommend PS version otherwise.


----------



## halcyon

when you advertise "ultra low latency" and you don't give specific millisecond latency measurement data, you know it's just marketin speak.


----------



## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Don't see why not. It's a general usb audio, so it should work. Of course, there's the disclaimer that we never know what Sony may do in the future. It's entirely possible they lock out general usb audio in some way. But for now, it's not the case.


Thanks! I don't think USB C is going anywhere on PS5 since PS VR2 is connected with one USB-C. In theory I can connect the Maxwell to the PS5 via USB-C cable and bypass the Xbox dongle. However sounds like the PS5 dongle provides additional amplification. Thanks again for the transparency. I play more on the PS5 so im still weighing if I use the Maxell just for PS5 and my wired headphones on XsX. I like the utilitarian look of the Maxwell.

Curious would you sell a separate PS5 dongle or too soon to say?


----------



## Swordsman (Dec 9, 2022)

Is there any headphone better than Mobius ? I own a Mobius but the headband snapped.

In the event I couldn't get a replacement from the distributor , I would have to buy a new headphone.

Any recommendations ?


----------



## deafenears

Swordsman said:


> Is there any headphone better than Mobius ? I own a Mobius but the headband snapped.
> 
> In the event I couldn't get a replacement from the distributor , I would have to buy a new headphone.
> 
> Any recommendations ?


Audeze Maxwell?


----------



## Skeza

What sound profile is everyone using for Warzone 2? Cant seem to hear anything with my LCD-GX's or my Arya's.


----------



## Swordsman

deafenears said:


> Audeze Maxwell?



Is maxwell much better ?


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

Helvetica bold said:


> Thanks! I don't think USB C is going anywhere on PS5 since PS VR2 is connected with one USB-C. In theory I can connect the Maxwell to the PS5 via USB-C cable and bypass the Xbox dongle. However sounds like the PS5 dongle provides additional amplification. Thanks again for the transparency. I play more on the PS5 so im still weighing if I use the Maxell just for PS5 and my wired headphones on XsX. I like the utilitarian look of the Maxwell.
> 
> Curious would you sell a separate PS5 dongle or too soon to say?


I'm not personally sure on how, but it's something more like, unless a device accounts for the low output voltage on the PS5, most things will have too little signal output from the system and will need brute forcing by amplification. Things made for PS5 won't have this issue, because they either take that into account, or the system sends out the proper voltage. Again, not sure.

It's not about amplification here. I mean it IS a wireless dongle.


----------



## tmaxx123

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Not quite the x7 successor we are all hoping for , but a step in the right direction!


----------



## Chastity

tmaxx123 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> 
> Not quite the x7 successor we are all hoping for , but a step in the right direction!


5v 1A .... and no stand alone power input.  :sigh:


----------



## Helvetica bold (Dec 19, 2022)

tmaxx123 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> 
> Not quite the x7 successor we are all hoping for , but a step in the right direction!


Looks cool. I wonder when it will be available.
https://jp.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-x5


----------



## stavros.m

Hey I am looking to buy the ATH-R70x for purely gaming, but I don’t really play fps. Just curious would they sound good for immersive gaming for example lately been play WoW, Guild wars 2, Vallheim, god of war, assassin creed Valhalla, dying light 2 to give you some examples. I been seeing mixed reviews some saying they are amazing while others say not so much for immersive but excellent for fps 

Thanks for all the advice and happy holidays


----------



## Helvetica bold

Has anyone tested the 3D headphone option used in the Witcher 3 next gen update. Its concerning the lack of native Dolby Atmos headphone support in games lately. What was the last release, MW2 / Warzone 2.0?  I noticed the Dead Space remake will use EA own Frostbite binaural audio, I assume similar to NFS UnBound and BF2024. Only "Spatial Sound" is listed as a feature in Xbox's official page.


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> Hey I am looking to buy the ATH-R70x for purely gaming, but I don’t really play fps. Just curious would they sound good for immersive gaming for example lately been play WoW, Guild wars 2, Vallheim, god of war, assassin creed Valhalla, dying light 2 to give you some examples. I been seeing mixed reviews some saying they are amazing while others say not so much for immersive but excellent for fps
> 
> Thanks for all the advice and happy holidays


The R70X is known for great imaging and a good balance of warmth and neutrality, so should be ideal for gaming.  Also nice and light.


----------



## JdeFalconr

stavros.m said:


> Hey I am looking to buy the ATH-R70x for purely gaming, but I don’t really play fps. Just curious would they sound good for immersive gaming for example lately been play WoW, Guild wars 2, Vallheim, god of war, assassin creed Valhalla, dying light 2 to give you some examples. I been seeing mixed reviews some saying they are amazing while others say not so much for immersive but excellent for fps
> 
> Thanks for all the advice and happy holidays


I've been very happy with mine for general gaming. I trade off between the R70X and the M1570, whichever I feel like using at the time. Different sounds from each but both excellent for games.


----------



## stavros.m

JdeFalconr said:


> I've been very happy with mine for general gaming. I trade off between the R70X and the M1570, whichever I feel like using at the time. Different sounds from each but both excellent for games.


I was looking at m1570 but they are a tiny bit more then double the price of the r70x here in Canada


----------



## Chastity

stavros.m said:


> I was looking at m1570 but they are a tiny bit more then double the price of the r70x here in Canada


Here in the US, M1570 is $379 on monoprice's site, R70x is $256 on Amazon


----------



## Mad Lust Envy

tmaxx123 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> 
> Not quite the x7 successor we are all hoping for , but a step in the right direction!


Boy she pretty. But I would want a legit X7 successor. That's their best dac/amp by a long mile. It's strange they haven't bothered to update it.


----------



## tmaxx123

Mad Lust Envy said:


> Boy she pretty. But I would want a legit X7 successor. That's their best dac/amp by a long mile. It's strange they haven't bothered to update it.


Agreed! I could definitely see a proper new x7 on this new platform. I have a feeling that if and when it comes, it likely won’t live up to everyone’s expectations as far as features go. Every new gaming device seems to give less and less nowadays.


----------



## p1zzap1e

tmaxx123 said:


> https://www.reddit.com/r/SoundBlast...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
> 
> Not quite the x7 successor we are all hoping for , but a step in the right direction!



Oooooohhhhhhhhhhh i would love a comparison to the g6. Love my g6, but this looks like a step up. And also: Insert random salty comment that xbox does not support usb-sound without licence... Could go the optical through tv route thay my g6 uses, but god damn just let me pay a little bit extra for it to work with xbox.


----------



## Helvetica bold (Dec 22, 2022)

This isn’t an article about headphones but it’s really interesting regarding 3D sound design in games.

Who knew former EA DICE audio
designers started a studio and worked on God of War Ragnarok, Halo, Horizons Forbidden West, Dead Space, Returnal – and many more.

https://headlinermagazine.net/ben-m...th-one-in-a-million-chance-of-it-playing.html

One of the most interesting parts below. EA’s “3D headphone” on games like BF2042 or NFS UnBound work with Atmos if I understand it correctly.

“The first implementation we did was Atmos over HDMI, so that's the format where you need to put it into an amp and then it breaks it out into the discrete speakers. After that, because there were different systems both on Sony Xbox and PC – with Peter Bliss, who's based at Criterion in the UK, we actually developed our own 3D solution as well so we could be platform-agnostic.

This helps us on the mixing stage, because then we just mix to that one target, and then it can be translated onto any platform that we work on down the lines. So the EA Dice titles currently working with the Frostbite engine utilise that 3D system, and it is translatable to the Tempest system and then to Atmos as well.”


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## azooooooma

Are there any DACs on the market that will play audio from two input sources at the same time just like how the Creative X7 does? I am looking for USB and optical as the two inputs.


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## PurpleAngel

azooooooma said:


> Are there any DACs on the market that will play audio from two input sources at the same time just like how the Creative X7 does? I am looking for USB and optical as the two inputs.


Seems like your looking for something like an Audio Interface or a mixer.


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## azooooooma

Let me ask this then. Does anyone know if a mixer/interface exists that has a USB and an optical input as well as an optical output for using my own DAC? I can accomplish this with my Creative X7, but I am wondering if there is anything else out there since the X7 is no longer obtainable anywhere.


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## JdeFalconr

azooooooma said:


> Let me ask this then. Does anyone know if a mixer/interface exists that has a USB and an optical input as well as an optical output for using my own DAC? I can accomplish this with my Creative X7, but I am wondering if there is anything else out there since the X7 is no longer obtainable anywhere.


Creative X4 has optical in & out as well as USB.


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## azooooooma

Does the optical out work like it does with the X7?


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## PurpleAngel

azooooooma said:


> Let me ask this then. Does anyone know if a mixer/interface exists that has a USB and an optical input as well as an optical output for using my own DAC? I can accomplish this with my Creative X7, but I am wondering if there is anything else out there since the X7 is no longer obtainable anywhere.


Anything wrong with to just keep using the Creative X7?


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## halcyon

azooooooma said:


> Let me ask this then. Does anyone know if a mixer/interface exists that has a USB and an optical input as well as an optical output for using my own DAC? I can accomplish this with my Creative X7, but I am wondering if there is anything else out there since the X7 is no longer obtainable anywhere.


What exactly do you want to do with the mixer/interface? Input from A) USB and B) Optical? Switch output between A and B? Apply multi-channel to stereo stereo 3D downmixing to the outgoing signal? Output at line level to an external DAC (which interface)? Please specify.

Creative Sound Blaster GC7 can do USB and optical digital (from computer or gaming console) input. It can output to line-out analog out and/or optical digital out as well as 3.5mm internal headphone out at the same time (AFAIK). I don't have it, nor can I vouch for it, but it should be capable of that.

https://en.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-gc7


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 27, 2022)

GC7 does, 100%

Before I simplified and kept it to just Redscape, that's how I would send my virtual surround audio to my Schiit Modius.

Speaking of Redscape, I gotta copy my install to my upghraded PC. I built it weeks ago, and I'm still on Dolby Atmos. Definitely couild stand to use Redscape.


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## slayer6288

Does anyone know if this setup would degrade the audio or introduce latency? PC->USB into X7->OPT OUT->Schiit Bifrost->Schiit Valhalla 2->HD 800S


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## Gladzilla

Which *Virtual Surround Device would give me the best microphone quality? *


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## Chastity

slayer6288 said:


> Does anyone know if this setup would degrade the audio or introduce latency? PC->USB into X7->OPT OUT->Schiit Bifrost->Schiit Valhalla 2->HD 800S


no it will not.  same as when I was using my G6 to output to an external DAC/amp setup.


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## slayer6288

Chastity said:


> no it will not.  same as when I was using my G6 to output to an external DAC/amp setup.


What did you end up going with? Did you no longer need to for instance talk on discord while gaming on a console? If you did and still do what do you use now?


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## Chastity

slayer6288 said:


> What did you end up going with? Did you no longer need to for instance talk on discord while gaming on a console? If you did and still do what do you use now?


I have a USB desk mic for when I want to chat, which I can feed to Discord.


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## PurpleAngel

slayer6288 said:


> Does anyone know if this setup would degrade the audio or introduce latency? PC->USB into X7->OPT OUT->Schiit Bifrost->Schiit Valhalla 2->HD 800S


In general, would your ears notice a degrading in audio, no 
But me, I would connect the PC directly to the Bifrost, using USB.


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## p1zzap1e

Sooooo maybe this has been answered before. But redscapes works regardless of my g6? Is it best to just set the g6 on direct mode? And do I have to set rhe windows settings to 7.1? Haven’t bought it yet, mostly using atmos but is interested in trying it. It’s also sale for 20$. 

Aaaaaand another question. I’m mostly playing battlefield 1. Should I set the game on stereo and headphones if I’m using redscape?


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## halcyon

slayer6288 said:


> Does anyone know if this setup would degrade the audio or introduce latency? PC->USB into X7->OPT OUT->Schiit Bifrost->Schiit Valhalla 2->HD 800S


Generally Creative USB-soundcards add an additional +50 - +100 ms of additional latency to the sound chain (when measured at the headphone output of such Creative soundcard). However, X7 can NOT do multichannel to Stereo 3D (SBX Pro) downmixing to it's own optical output (I had X7 and tested this). So you will get "stereo only" out from your X7. Also, unless you run the "bit perfect mode" in X7 settings, it will internally resample everything, for a (theoretical) loss in sound quality.

I would just run your PC directly to Schiit Bifrost via USB, bypassing X7 altogether for less latency and higher sound quality. 
If you want movies/gaming multichannel -> stereo 3D downmixing, you'll have to purchase "a virtual  soundcard" that does the downmixing before the sound is sent from PC to Bifrost. Examples of such are Redscape 3D audio (software).


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 28, 2022)

Gladzilla said:


> Which *Virtual Surround Device would give me the best microphone quality? *


If it were up to me today, I'd run the mic to a Schiit Hel. And if Hel is the only thing you got, use built in virtual surround on the new consoles, and something like Redscape on pc.

I'm still hoping Schiit makes a beefy dac/amp with a mic input. Like Asgard/Jotunheim sized. Hell, make it an interface.


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## enz0pt (Dec 28, 2022)

Hey Lust,

Really enjoyed reading through your reviews (haven't finished all of them tho). I'm a heavy gamer, played competitive for years in different games at an amateur semi-pro level.
What's your take on IEM for gaming? Have you got any recommendation, do you plan to add it sometime here?

(probably someone already asked you this; I havent read though the 3216 pages)


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 28, 2022)

I'm not a fan of IEMs.

There are a few I have reviewed, and they're relatively good for a form factor I greatly dislike.

The Creative Trio is really solid. It's one of the reviews. I'd be happy with it as a sole IEM if I was into that.


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## Mad Lust Envy (Dec 28, 2022)

@Helvetica bold Ey,I saw your Digital Foundry question on the new direct! It had to be you right?  

At 47:32


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## slayer6288

Let me ask you smart people one more thing. I have studied the x7 thread and so me places online and can't get a straight answer. Is the only difference between the black x7 and the white limited edition one the beefier power brick? I mean I doubt they changed the internals to get that headphone out ohm from 2.2 to 1 but I guess they might of? Is it just the power supply attributing to this or are there other internals that were changed? Basically if I take the limited edition plug and use it on my black x7 do I now have the limited edition or is there more to it than that?


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## Gladzilla

Mad Lust Envy said:


> If it were up to me today, I'd run the mic to a Schiit Hel. And if Hel is the only thing you got, use built in virtual surround on the new consoles, and something like Redscape on pc.
> 
> I'm still hoping Schiit makes a beefy dac/amp with a mic input. Like Asgard/Jotunheim sized. Hell, make it an interface.


Thanks, I may get that for work. Currently using a mdr1000x with a boom pro x mic. I have it running through my pixel 3. I use a soft phone app for answering calls.


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## Helvetica bold

Mad Lust Envy said:


> @Helvetica bold Ey,I saw your Digital Foundry question on the new direct! It had to be you right?
> 
> At 47:32



HA, YES, I joined their Patreron, love those guys. Didn't expect them to answer my question plus Richard gets a chuckle from my screen name.


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## azooooooma

slayer6288 said:


> Let me ask you smart people one more thing. I have studied the x7 thread and so me places online and can't get a straight answer. Is the only difference between the black x7 and the white limited edition one the beefier power brick? I mean I doubt they changed the internals to get that headphone out ohm from 2.2 to 1 but I guess they might of? Is it just the power supply attributing to this or are there other internals that were changed? Basically if I take the limited edition plug and use it on my black x7 do I now have the limited edition or is there more to it than that?


Anyone know? I am curious about this also.


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## kellte2

azooooooma said:


> Anyone know? I am curious about this also.


The white (limited edition) X7 has a lower impedence level for the headphone jack, in addition to a different power brick. Probably only matters if you’re using the X7 to drive IEMs. Hope this helps.


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## Helvetica bold

Happy New Year everyone hoping this year is off to a great start with the new Audeze Maxwell's. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I forgot about my Koss KPH40! I recently played some NFS UnBound on Series X with the KPH40's and they sound great. Perhaps I need to remind myself of the simple pleasures this year.


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## Skeza

Can I ask some questions about Redscape? I currently have an issue with all forms of Spatial Audio (Dolby,DTS,Sonic) on windows 11 where I can activate or "turn it on" in windows sound settings but the sound doesn't change at all. No company's support is helpful in anyway so I'm looking for something that is application processed like HeSuVi (which works fine). 

I'm currently running my JDS Element 3 over USB/Optical, but I can't change both options to 7.1. will this hinder Redscape in anyway? Does Redscape run through the application similar to HeSuVi?


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## Zaphyre (Jan 5, 2023)

So I've been using a Soundblasterx G6 for a number of years now so I can get audio from my PC as well as dolby digital decoding from my TV into the same output. The optical out goes out from the G6 to a Modi/Magni stack to my headphones. I've recently been having issues with blue screens related to the G6 driver so I'm just weighing up what my options are really, I'll still try and fix it up but wondering if it's time for an upgrade too I guess. I know the GC7 came out a bit ago which also has optical out, but I heard that the new SXFI can't be output over it, is that still the case? Otherwise is there any other devices out with those features, or is it still just Creative? I know I used to use an Astro Mixamp prior to the G6, but having to send auto via analog wasn't great, was pretty happy when I upgraded and didn't have to mess with that any more.

Edit: Oh and I did notice people were talking about the X7 above, but I'd say that's probably too big for my use case.


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## Chastity (Jan 5, 2023)

Skeza said:


> Can I ask some questions about Redscape? I currently have an issue with all forms of Spatial Audio (Dolby,DTS,Sonic) on windows 11 where I can activate or "turn it on" in windows sound settings but the sound doesn't change at all. No company's support is helpful in anyway so I'm looking for something that is application processed like HeSuVi (which works fine).
> 
> I'm currently running my JDS Element 3 over USB/Optical, but I can't change both options to 7.1. will this hinder Redscape in anyway? Does Redscape run through the application similar to HeSuVi?


You set Redscape's Virtual Sound Device to 7.1, and you set your DAC to stereo.  You then have Redscape output to your DAC.  Set Redscape as your default audio.  Nice part is when I play music, I stream direct to my DAC.


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## Chastity

Zaphyre said:


> So I've been using a Soundblasterx G6 for a number of years now so I can get audio from my PC as well as dolby digital decoding from my TV into the same output. The optical out goes out from the G6 to a Modi/Magni stack to my headphones. I've recently been having issues with blue screens related to the G6 driver so I'm just weighing up what my options are really, I'll still try and fix it up but wondering if it's time for an upgrade too I guess. I know the GC7 came out a bit ago which also has optical out, but I heard that the new SXFI can't be output over it, is that still the case? Otherwise is there any other devices out with those features, or is it still just Creative? I know I used to use an Astro Mixamp prior to the G6, but having to send auto via analog wasn't great, was pretty happy when I upgraded and didn't have to mess with that any more.
> 
> Edit: Oh and I did notice people were talking about the X7 above, but I'd say that's probably too big for my use case.


Creative does not permit output of SXFi over digital output, just the analog headphone port.  You can output SBX over digital, like on your G6.

I retired my G6, and use Redscape on my PC, and have it output to my DAC over USB.  I also have Dolby Access and DTS Sound Abound for movies and games that support either.


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## Zaphyre

Chastity said:


> Creative does not permit output of SXFi over digital output, just the analog headphone port.  You can output SBX over digital, like on your G6.
> 
> I retired my G6, and use Redscape on my PC, and have it output to my DAC over USB.  I also have Dolby Access and DTS Sound Abound for movies and games that support either.


Fair, I dunno why they don't allow it over optical, just seems a weird constraint. 

Since I have a Modi/Magni stack the main use of the device is to get audio from my TV (PS5/Series X and the TV apps basically), if it wasn't for that I probably would have just used some software solution really since I'm not using the analog output of the device anyway.


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## Chastity

Zaphyre said:


> Fair, I dunno why they don't allow it over optical, just seems a weird constraint.
> 
> Since I have a Modi/Magni stack the main use of the device is to get audio from my TV (PS5/Series X and the TV apps basically), if it wasn't for that I probably would have just used some software solution really since I'm not using the analog output of the device anyway.


Creative just released an X5, but I haven't looked hard at it.


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## Zaphyre

Chastity said:


> Creative just released an X5, but I haven't looked hard at it.


Hmm, looking at the product it seems like it's mainly focused on the hardware and not any software features. It seems to be lacking SXFI for example, but it seems like it gains more output control in a balanced out. Which to be fair isn't a bad thing for their line up if you did want an all in one external hardware solution, don't think I'd personally want it just yet though.

I think realistically I'll probably keep the G6 for a bit to see if completely reinstalling all the drivers/using a different usb port stops my issues, but if it doesn't I might just grab the GC7 anyway since apparently it doesn't use any creative driver stuff any more, which should help massively with these compatibility issues it seems to have. I'm guessing that's also why they don't seem to have updated their driver in the past 2 years as well, they've just moved on from it on their newer products.


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